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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: lurganblue on January 23, 2020, 09:52:32 AM

Title: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on January 23, 2020, 09:52:32 AM
Big scare in the news this morning around a new virus in China.  City on lockdown.  People fecking around with animals again... "This new virus originated in a seafood market in Wuhan that "conducted illegal transactions of wild animals", authorities have said."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51217455 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51217455)

No doubt it wont be long until cases of this arrive in Europe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 23, 2020, 10:06:29 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on January 23, 2020, 09:52:32 AM
Big scare in the news this morning around a new virus in China.  City on lockdown.  People fecking around with animals again... "This new virus originated in a seafood market in Wuhan that "conducted illegal transactions of wild animals", authorities have said."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51217455 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51217455)

No doubt it wont be long until cases of this arrive in Europe.

You can be sure it's already in Europe at this stage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 23, 2020, 04:51:15 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 23, 2020, 10:06:29 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on January 23, 2020, 09:52:32 AM
Big scare in the news this morning around a new virus in China.  City on lockdown.  People fecking around with animals again... "This new virus originated in a seafood market in Wuhan that "conducted illegal transactions of wild animals", authorities have said."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51217455 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51217455)

No doubt it wont be long until cases of this arrive in Europe.

You can be sure it's already in Europe at this stage.

Quite possibly Lurgan.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on January 23, 2020, 05:26:35 PM
BREAKING - a man is being treated in Belfast's RVH for symptoms associated with coronavirus.  The infection that's caused two cities to go into lockdown in China. @BelfastTrust told the @BBCNewsNI they did not comment on individual cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 23, 2020, 05:32:55 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on January 23, 2020, 05:26:35 PM
BREAKING - a man is being treated in Belfast's RVH for symptoms associated with coronavirus.  The infection that's caused two cities to go into lockdown in China. @BelfastTrust told the @BBCNewsNI they did not comment on individual cases.

I think the proper thing is build a giant dome around Belfast and fumigate it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 24, 2020, 09:26:26 AM
So it turns out this virus is a killer, obviously. But health experts have said it would only really effect those with previous medical conditions and the vulnerable elderly.

Not to be dismissive of course, but, is the virus just something the media are jumping on?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on January 24, 2020, 10:57:07 AM
26 dead

830 cases

41,000,000 people on lockdown

The Chinese are getting a bit carried away, then again they go around Dublin wearing masks so they are a bit OTT on health shit.

Seems like scaremongering by the Gov over there, keep the people in line after the Honk Kong protests last year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aristo 60 on January 24, 2020, 10:58:39 AM
What will it do to sales of Corona?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on January 24, 2020, 11:19:11 AM
They can build a 1000 bed hospital in 5 days. Our flutes are clean useless. Harris should be shot with a ball of his own sh_te.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 24, 2020, 11:30:10 AM
Quote from: highorlow on January 24, 2020, 10:57:07 AM
26 dead

830 cases

41,000,000 people on lockdown

The Chinese are getting a bit carried away, then again they go around Dublin wearing masks so they are a bit OTT on health shit.

Seems like scaremongering by the Gov over there, keep the people in line after the Honk Kong protests last year.

Belfast Castle and Giants Causeway gets a bit of this action too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on January 24, 2020, 11:46:51 AM
Still less deadly than the seasonal flu.

The big problem is if it starts to mutate into something uncontrollable.

Doesn't really matter if countries do go into lockdown - takes 2-14 days for symptoms to appear meaning people can walk through airport controls without showing symptoms but can still transmit the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 24, 2020, 11:55:26 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 24, 2020, 11:46:51 AM
Still less deadly than the seasonal flu.

The big problem is if it starts to mutate into something uncontrollable.

Doesn't really matter if countries do go into lockdown - takes 2-14 days for symptoms to appear meaning people can walk through airport controls without showing symptoms but can still transmit the virus.

However, the slow incubation period means that they have time to track down the contacts of the people affected.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on January 24, 2020, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: Rudi on January 24, 2020, 11:19:11 AM
They can build a 1000 bed hospital in 5 days. Our flutes are clean useless. Harris should be shot with a ball of his own sh_te.

While the NCH has been a complete balls up, you're hardly comparing apples with apples
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on January 24, 2020, 01:24:55 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 24, 2020, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: Rudi on January 24, 2020, 11:19:11 AM
They can build a 1000 bed hospital in 5 days. Our flutes are clean useless. Harris should be shot with a ball of his own sh_te.

While the NCH has been a complete balls up, you're hardly comparing apples with apples

We need a political system that makes things happen, instead of flaffing about, jumping on populist bandwagons. Our judiciary, planning authorites are not fit for purpose either. The childrens hospital is an absolute shambles. Why the location, why the complex design, why the cost?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 24, 2020, 01:38:40 PM
Quote from: Rudi on January 24, 2020, 01:24:55 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 24, 2020, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: Rudi on January 24, 2020, 11:19:11 AM
They can build a 1000 bed hospital in 5 days. Our flutes are clean useless. Harris should be shot with a ball of his own sh_te.

While the NCH has been a complete balls up, you're hardly comparing apples with apples

We need a political system that makes things happen, instead of flaffing about, jumping on populist bandwagons. Our judiciary, planning authorites are not fit for purpose either. The childrens hospital is an absolute shambles. Why the location, why the complex design, why the cost?

In the interests of balance, the Chinese government don't exactly worry too much about the will of the people in instances of both right and wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on January 24, 2020, 01:43:16 PM
Quote from: Rudi on January 24, 2020, 01:24:55 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 24, 2020, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: Rudi on January 24, 2020, 11:19:11 AM
They can build a 1000 bed hospital in 5 days. Our flutes are clean useless. Harris should be shot with a ball of his own sh_te.

While the NCH has been a complete balls up, you're hardly comparing apples with apples

We need a political system that makes things happen, instead of flaffing about, jumping on populist bandwagons. Our judiciary, planning authorites are not fit for purpose either. The childrens hospital is an absolute shambles. Why the location, why the complex design, why the cost?

The location was the biggest error imo and (without knowing any of the facts) I'd say it was down to hospital politics/lobbying.

Politicians jumping on populist bandwagons is a pitfall of representative democracy, they say you get the politicians you deserve

What specific changes would you propose to judiciary, planning and the political system that would have avoided this f*ck up?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on January 24, 2020, 01:48:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 24, 2020, 11:55:26 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 24, 2020, 11:46:51 AM
Still less deadly than the seasonal flu.

The big problem is if it starts to mutate into something uncontrollable.

Doesn't really matter if countries do go into lockdown - takes 2-14 days for symptoms to appear meaning people can walk through airport controls without showing symptoms but can still transmit the virus.

However, the slow incubation period means that they have time to track down the contacts of the people affected.

True but on average how many people do you come into contact with, who you share a computer with etc in those 14 days?

As an example:

You go to a restaurant and before you enter the building you cough/sneeze into your hands. You then open the door with your hand and then the next person to open the door picks the virus up on their hands - that is already 2 people infected just by touching a door handle and then share the use of things such as an ATM, the button at a set of traffic lights, opening doors around the house and passing it on to family. Just think how many people could potentially be infected within the first day just because someone has not washed their hands. 

I wouldn't consider myself a germophobe but at the same time I don't like getting ill because of some other asshole who is too lazy to take basic preventative measures. All you have to do is cough into your arm rather than into your hands or into the air and take 30 seconds to wash your hands.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on January 24, 2020, 08:39:08 PM
Are we genuinely living in a world that believes China will build a hospital in 10 days! The mind boggles!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 24, 2020, 10:27:28 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on January 24, 2020, 08:39:08 PM
Are we genuinely living in a world that believes China will build a hospital in 10 days! The mind boggles!

It will be simple structure, but will do the job. Perhaps, they even had foresight to prefabricate such an edifice in anticipation of exactly this type of event, they aren't the HSE.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on January 24, 2020, 10:38:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 24, 2020, 10:27:28 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on January 24, 2020, 08:39:08 PM
Are we genuinely living in a world that believes China will build a hospital in 10 days! The mind boggles!

It will be simple structure, but will do the job. Perhaps, they even had foresight to prefabricate such an edifice in anticipation of exactly this type of event, they aren't the HSE.

They'll stack a raft of containers - let's not label it a hospital & similarly not use it to have a pop at the government here - I wonder how many of us would want to be treated in said "hospital"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 28, 2020, 10:13:26 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on January 24, 2020, 10:38:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 24, 2020, 10:27:28 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on January 24, 2020, 08:39:08 PM
Are we genuinely living in a world that believes China will build a hospital in 10 days! The mind boggles!

It will be simple structure, but will do the job. Perhaps, they even had foresight to prefabricate such an edifice in anticipation of exactly this type of event, they aren't the HSE.

They'll stack a raft of containers - let's not label it a hospital & similarly not use it to have a pop at the government here - I wonder how many of us would want to be treated in said "hospital"

There was a video doing the rounds awhile ago of how the Chinese put together a Skyscraper. They literally stack it on, floor by floor like a massive IKEA project. It went up in something stupid like 3 weeks if I recall correct.

It obviously won't be an exceptional private facility, but none the less, if the Chinese want to do something - they'll do it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 28, 2020, 12:05:07 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/c1c92b80-3ec1-11ea-b84f-a62c46f39bc2

Containing the spread of the coronavirus is a forlorn hope
A revised timeline suggests it has been circulating longer than first thought

ANJANA AHUJA  A military medical team member and a medical worker at Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital at the weekend

The world should be more anxious than it was a week ago. According to research published on Friday, a new Sars-like coronavirus has been present in China since December 1, a full month before the alarm was raised. Almost 3,000 people have been diagnosed with the respiratory illness. As of Monday afternoon, 35 cases were outside China. Eighty-one people have died. Despite draconian quarantining, the virus, provisionally known as 2019-nCoV, is spreading.

Several countries, including the UK, are considering evacuating nationals from the hot zone. It is now time for the World Health Organisation to call a Public Health Emergency of International Concern (PHEIC). The revised timeline on when the virus began circulating comes courtesy of two papers in The Lancet medical journal, which reveal other worrying details. One sets out the clinical data on the first 41 laboratory-confirmed patients. Patient zero, who fell ill on December 1, had no link to the seafood market in Wuhan that is widely assumed to be the source of the outbreak. A further 13 of those 41 cases showed no link either. It is possible that the virus began circulating earlier than December. Other analyses separately suggest that containment is now a forlorn hope. The "reproduction number" is thought to lie between two and four — meaning that, on average, each infected person passes the virus to between two and four others. That is high: seasonal flu has a reproduction rate of about 1.4. The incubation period could be about a week, with infected individuals possibly being contagious while showing mild or no symptoms. Neil Ferguson, an Imperial College epidemiologist, estimated that 4,000 were infected by January 18. Jonathan Read, of Lancaster University, and colleagues provisionally calculate that the tally could exceed 190,000 by February 4. A "grave situation" for China, as President Xi Jinping describes the epidemic, is a grave situation for the world. A fifth of the global population is now potentially exposed to a highly transmissible, currently incurable and potentially fatal respiratory virus.

Richard Horton, editor-in-chief of The Lancet, believes a PHEIC declaration should be considered. "The emergency committee [of the WHO] should reconvene as a matter of urgency," Mr Horton said, adding that he felt there were political sensitivities at play that have not dogged other epidemics, such as Ebola in west Africa. Recent developments, such as a special committee set up by China's ruling party, have also heightened rather than allayed his concerns. He says: "Not one [of the people on that committee] has any background in public health. That makes me very worried." Mr Horton also fears the mass social unrest that may accompany prolonged quarantine with patchy information. It is unclear whether the WHO knew in advance of China's quarantine plans. The language emerging from its meetings has been painfully diplomatic, with its director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus remarking only that he hoped the extreme measures were "both effective and short in their duration". Sir Jeremy Farrar, director of the Wellcome Trust, said it was "right and appropriate" for China to control the first response. Antivirals were going into randomised trials on the ground, he said, and vaccines might become available within six months. He acknowledged, though, that the social consequences of quarantining millions of people remained "uncharted territory". All factors considered, it is perverse to see the coronavirus outbreak as anything other than a PHEIC. The writer is a science commentator
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 29, 2020, 07:38:57 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on January 24, 2020, 08:39:08 PM
Are we genuinely living in a world that believes China will build a hospital in 10 days! The mind boggles!

https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/29/china-opens-1000-bed-coronavirus-hospital-just-48-hours-construction-12142899/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 29, 2020, 12:06:19 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on January 24, 2020, 10:38:18 PM

They'll stack a raft of containers - let's not label it a hospital & similarly not use it to have a pop at the government here - I wonder how many of us would want to be treated in said "hospital"

It won't be fancy, but people can be treated there in reasonable space providing proper separation between patients, which is better than being on a trolley in a corridor in Limerick hospital with people pushing past you. Of course, nobody wants to be in a hospital at all, but if they can bring nurses etc from other districts they'll be able to provide useful treatment. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on January 29, 2020, 12:43:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 29, 2020, 12:06:19 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on January 24, 2020, 10:38:18 PM

They'll stack a raft of containers - let's not label it a hospital & similarly not use it to have a pop at the government here - I wonder how many of us would want to be treated in said "hospital"

It won't be fancy, but people can be treated there in reasonable space providing proper separation between patients, which is better than being on a trolley in a corridor in Limerick hospital with people pushing past you. Of course, nobody wants to be in a hospital at all, but if they can bring nurses etc from other districts they'll be able to provide useful treatment.

I'm not sure I take your point about being on a trolley in Limerick? Are you suggesting pre-fab containers are the way forward for irish hospitals? Will the government just take over the land like the Chinise state to build them?

What their doing is rushing something through to deal with a unfolding crisis which is entirely understandable - not to mention the millions of tonnes of materials which have been stockpiled somewhere to address this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on January 30, 2020, 11:25:23 AM
Construction of the 1000 bed hospital took just 2 days. Looks well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Denn Forever on January 30, 2020, 11:52:02 AM
Any word from Asal Mór?  He's over there isn't he?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on January 30, 2020, 02:46:31 PM
Guaranteed Fake News I reckon...

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/doctor-tells-high-court-of-potential-coronavirus-case-in-dublin-hospital-978704.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on January 30, 2020, 02:53:34 PM
Quote from: Rudi on January 30, 2020, 11:25:23 AM
Construction of the 1000 bed hospital took just 2 days. Looks well.

The 2 day one was a conversion of an old building into a hospital.

They're building another 1000 bed hospital from scratch they hope to have operational for Sunday!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 30, 2020, 03:21:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 30, 2020, 02:53:34 PM
Quote from: Rudi on January 30, 2020, 11:25:23 AM
Construction of the 1000 bed hospital took just 2 days. Looks well.

The 2 day one was a conversion of an old building into a hospital.

They're building another 1000 bed hospital from scratch they hope to have operational for Sunday!

They're trying to break the record for the hospital they built for the SARS outbreak. That hospital was built in 7 days and then they quietly abandoned afterwards.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on January 30, 2020, 03:25:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 28, 2020, 12:05:07 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/c1c92b80-3ec1-11ea-b84f-a62c46f39bc2

Containing the spread of the coronavirus is a forlorn hope
A revised timeline suggests it has been circulating longer than first thought

ANJANA AHUJA  A military medical team member and a medical worker at Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital at the weekend

The world should be more anxious than it was a week ago. According to research published on Friday, a new Sars-like coronavirus has been present in China since December 1, a full month before the alarm was raised. Almost 3,000 people have been diagnosed with the respiratory illness. As of Monday afternoon, 35 cases were outside China. Eighty-one people have died. Despite draconian quarantining, the virus, provisionally known as 2019-nCoV, is spreading.

Several countries, including the UK, are considering evacuating nationals from the hot zone. It is now time for the World Health Organisation to call a Public Health Emergency of International Concern (PHEIC). The revised timeline on when the virus began circulating comes courtesy of two papers in The Lancet medical journal, which reveal other worrying details. One sets out the clinical data on the first 41 laboratory-confirmed patients. Patient zero, who fell ill on December 1, had no link to the seafood market in Wuhan that is widely assumed to be the source of the outbreak. A further 13 of those 41 cases showed no link either. It is possible that the virus began circulating earlier than December. Other analyses separately suggest that containment is now a forlorn hope. The "reproduction number" is thought to lie between two and four — meaning that, on average, each infected person passes the virus to between two and four others. That is high: seasonal flu has a reproduction rate of about 1.4. The incubation period could be about a week, with infected individuals possibly being contagious while showing mild or no symptoms. Neil Ferguson, an Imperial College epidemiologist, estimated that 4,000 were infected by January 18. Jonathan Read, of Lancaster University, and colleagues provisionally calculate that the tally could exceed 190,000 by February 4. A "grave situation" for China, as President Xi Jinping describes the epidemic, is a grave situation for the world. A fifth of the global population is now potentially exposed to a highly transmissible, currently incurable and potentially fatal respiratory virus.

Richard Horton, editor-in-chief of The Lancet, believes a PHEIC declaration should be considered. "The emergency committee [of the WHO] should reconvene as a matter of urgency," Mr Horton said, adding that he felt there were political sensitivities at play that have not dogged other epidemics, such as Ebola in west Africa. Recent developments, such as a special committee set up by China's ruling party, have also heightened rather than allayed his concerns. He says: "Not one [of the people on that committee] has any background in public health. That makes me very worried." Mr Horton also fears the mass social unrest that may accompany prolonged quarantine with patchy information. It is unclear whether the WHO knew in advance of China's quarantine plans. The language emerging from its meetings has been painfully diplomatic, with its director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus remarking only that he hoped the extreme measures were "both effective and short in their duration". Sir Jeremy Farrar, director of the Wellcome Trust, said it was "right and appropriate" for China to control the first response. Antivirals were going into randomised trials on the ground, he said, and vaccines might become available within six months. He acknowledged, though, that the social consequences of quarantining millions of people remained "uncharted territory". All factors considered, it is perverse to see the coronavirus outbreak as anything other than a PHEIC. The writer is a science commentator

Population of China = 1,427,647,786

Fatal cases of Corona virus in the hundreds and I am going to guess fatal cases of normal flu probably multiples more than that.

Is this a world wide over reaction?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on January 31, 2020, 09:58:36 AM
2 confirmed cases in the UK this morning
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 31, 2020, 10:22:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 30, 2020, 03:25:05 PM


Population of China = 1,427,647,786

Fatal cases of Corona virus in the hundreds and I am going to guess fatal cases of normal flu probably multiples more than that.

Is this a world wide over reaction?

Perhaps. You certainly have a point with the seasonal flu. Scary how so many people don't take it serious.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 31, 2020, 12:14:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 31, 2020, 10:22:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 30, 2020, 03:25:05 PM


Population of China = 1,427,647,786

Fatal cases of Corona virus in the hundreds and I am going to guess fatal cases of normal flu probably multiples more than that.

Is this a world wide over reaction?



Perhaps. You certainly have a point with the seasonal flu. Scary how so many people don't take it serious.

I could be stepping on racial lines here....you know how the world is at the moment, but the Chinese people don't have a great diet - it's well documented that their average calories per day would be less than someone in the Western world, thus making them slightly 'weaker' for want of a better word. 1.4bn people is also a lot of people to immunise (from birth like we would have gotten)....is there a point to be made that this is something that has "been coming"?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on January 31, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 31, 2020, 12:14:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 31, 2020, 10:22:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 30, 2020, 03:25:05 PM


Population of China = 1,427,647,786

Fatal cases of Corona virus in the hundreds and I am going to guess fatal cases of normal flu probably multiples more than that.

Is this a world wide over reaction?



Perhaps. You certainly have a point with the seasonal flu. Scary how so many people don't take it serious.

I could be stepping on racial lines here....you know how the world is at the moment, but the Chinese people don't have a great diet - it's well documented that their average calories per day would be less than someone in the Western world, thus making them slightly 'weaker' for want of a better word. 1.4bn people is also a lot of people to immunise (from birth like we would have gotten)....is there a point to be made that this is something that has "been coming"?

Something like 40 million do not have access to clean drinking water either, The overall quality of clean air in China is poor, it is the highest tobacco consumers in the world..these issues are going to have a dire impact on the populations respiratory health.  There will be more deaths but it is nowhere near the amount of deaths seasonal flu causes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on January 31, 2020, 12:38:08 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 31, 2020, 12:14:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 31, 2020, 10:22:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 30, 2020, 03:25:05 PM


Population of China = 1,427,647,786

Fatal cases of Corona virus in the hundreds and I am going to guess fatal cases of normal flu probably multiples more than that.

Is this a world wide over reaction?



Perhaps. You certainly have a point with the seasonal flu. Scary how so many people don't take it serious.

I could be stepping on racial lines here....you know how the world is at the moment, but the Chinese people don't have a great diet - it's well documented that their average calories per day would be less than someone in the Western world, thus making them slightly 'weaker' for want of a better word. 1.4bn people is also a lot of people to immunise (from birth like we would have gotten)....is there a point to be made that this is something that has "been coming"?

Racist. Reported
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 31, 2020, 12:39:55 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 31, 2020, 12:38:08 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 31, 2020, 12:14:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 31, 2020, 10:22:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 30, 2020, 03:25:05 PM


Population of China = 1,427,647,786

Fatal cases of Corona virus in the hundreds and I am going to guess fatal cases of normal flu probably multiples more than that.

Is this a world wide over reaction?



Perhaps. You certainly have a point with the seasonal flu. Scary how so many people don't take it serious.

I could be stepping on racial lines here....you know how the world is at the moment, but the Chinese people don't have a great diet - it's well documented that their average calories per day would be less than someone in the Western world, thus making them slightly 'weaker' for want of a better word. 1.4bn people is also a lot of people to immunise (from birth like we would have gotten)....is there a point to be made that this is something that has "been coming"?

Racist. Reported

I had a good run.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 31, 2020, 01:46:59 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 31, 2020, 12:14:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 31, 2020, 10:22:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 30, 2020, 03:25:05 PM


Population of China = 1,427,647,786

Fatal cases of Corona virus in the hundreds and I am going to guess fatal cases of normal flu probably multiples more than that.

Is this a world wide over reaction?



Perhaps. You certainly have a point with the seasonal flu. Scary how so many people don't take it serious.

I could be stepping on racial lines here....you know how the world is at the moment, but the Chinese people don't have a great diet - it's well documented that their average calories per day would be less than someone in the Western world, thus making them slightly 'weaker' for want of a better word. 1.4bn people is also a lot of people to immunise (from birth like we would have gotten)....is there a point to be made that this is something that has "been coming"?

Oh it's "been coming" alright.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on January 31, 2020, 02:04:05 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on January 31, 2020, 12:26:51 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 31, 2020, 12:14:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 31, 2020, 10:22:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 30, 2020, 03:25:05 PM


Population of China = 1,427,647,786

Fatal cases of Corona virus in the hundreds and I am going to guess fatal cases of normal flu probably multiples more than that.

Is this a world wide over reaction?



Perhaps. You certainly have a point with the seasonal flu. Scary how so many people don't take it serious.

I could be stepping on racial lines here....you know how the world is at the moment, but the Chinese people don't have a great diet - it's well documented that their average calories per day would be less than someone in the Western world, thus making them slightly 'weaker' for want of a better word. 1.4bn people is also a lot of people to immunise (from birth like we would have gotten)....is there a point to be made that this is something that has "been coming"?

Something like 40 million do not have access to clean drinking water either, The overall quality of clean air in China is poor, it is the highest tobacco consumers in the world..these issues are going to have a dire impact on the populations respiratory health.  There will be more deaths but it is nowhere near the amount of deaths seasonal flu causes.

Was listening to an expert on this the other day. He tried to explain that the situation woould get worse over the next few weeks but ultimately the numbers are not huge and the steps the Chinese are taking are enough.

He also suggested that the evacuation of people back to their home country was an over reaction to the situation.

Like the flu if you're healthy and you contract it you are sick but it's manageable it's just for people who have bad health or certain underlying conditions that this can be fatal.

The rolling global 24 hr news cycle is not helping!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on January 31, 2020, 03:55:20 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPnF6ZJXUAAZwBG?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aristo 60 on January 31, 2020, 04:00:26 PM
Good one Harold  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on February 03, 2020, 09:44:53 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on January 24, 2020, 08:39:08 PM
Are we genuinely living in a world that believes China will build a hospital in 10 days! The mind boggles!

Yes, they did. The mind boggles indeed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on February 03, 2020, 12:52:39 PM
Quote from: Rudi on February 03, 2020, 09:44:53 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on January 24, 2020, 08:39:08 PM
Are we genuinely living in a world that believes China will build a hospital in 10 days! The mind boggles!

Yes, they did. The mind boggles indeed.

Think it was 8 days. Mental.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2020, 02:31:50 PM
Just goes to show what a Government can do when they really want to do it. Here you'd have to argue 8 months before you even get to put it to a vote, before some bollox objects then it's 8 years before we do something. Hold on, this is all very Casement Park.

Wouldn't happen in Beijing lads.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on February 03, 2020, 02:36:39 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 31, 2020, 10:22:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 30, 2020, 03:25:05 PM


Population of China = 1,427,647,786

Fatal cases of Corona virus in the hundreds and I am going to guess fatal cases of normal flu probably multiples more than that.

Is this a world wide over reaction?

Perhaps. You certainly have a point with the seasonal flu. Scary how so many people don't take it serious.
Over 40 flu-related deaths in Ireland this winter.

It's "apples and oranges" to an extent, but if there are 40 deaths in Ireland due to the Corona virus, the country will be locked down!

There was a doctor talking on Newstalk on Friday (who said about the number of flu deaths - think he said it was 48), but he said he wouldn't be surprised if Easter was cancelled! - meaning no travel allowed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on February 03, 2020, 03:41:03 PM
The Irish lad who caught it in Wuhan got rid of it with an inhaler and a few hot whiskeys.

The 25-year-old man, who has lived in the country for three years to teach English, was kept in hospital for two weeks and feared the worst.
"'I was stunned when the doctors told me I was suffering from the virus. I thought I was going to die but I managed to beat it," Connor said.
"I used the inhaler which helped control the cough and drank a hot whisky with honey until that ran out.
Despite being contacted by the British authorities and offered a place on a flight, Connor intends to stay in Wuhan.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on February 04, 2020, 03:01:05 AM
Quote from: Hound on February 03, 2020, 02:36:39 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 31, 2020, 10:22:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 30, 2020, 03:25:05 PM


Population of China = 1,427,647,786

Fatal cases of Corona virus in the hundreds and I am going to guess fatal cases of normal flu probably multiples more than that.

Is this a world wide over reaction?

Perhaps. You certainly have a point with the seasonal flu. Scary how so many people don't take it serious.
Over 40 flu-related deaths in Ireland this winter.

It's "apples and oranges" to an extent, but if there are 40 deaths in Ireland due to the Corona virus, the country will be locked down!

There was a doctor talking on Newstalk on Friday (who said about the number of flu deaths - think he said it was 48), but he said he wouldn't be surprised if Easter was cancelled! - meaning no travel allowed.

While I also agree that influenza should generally be taken more seriously, the Corona virus is currently running at 1 death every 50 confirmed cases (or approx 2%)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/)
While it is difficultt to get similar results for influenza, 15million cases and 8,200 deaths suggests one in 1,800 or 0.055% of cases from this link
https://www.mdmag.com/medical-news/flu-reaches-15-million-americans-in-current-season-cdc-reports (https://www.mdmag.com/medical-news/flu-reaches-15-million-americans-in-current-season-cdc-reports)

There's obviously going to be lots of different factors - the level of healthcare in the US versus some developing countries in Asia, ability of the body to fight the flu versus the new coronavirus etc but the rate at which it grew initially obviously caused people to take notice
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: nrico2006 on February 04, 2020, 10:39:34 AM
Can this virus be transferred by post - expecting something from China soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 04, 2020, 10:45:56 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on February 04, 2020, 10:39:34 AM
Can this virus be transferred by post - expecting something from China soon.

The old dark web huh  8)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on February 04, 2020, 11:21:11 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on February 04, 2020, 10:39:34 AM
Can this virus be transferred by post - expecting something from China soon.

Try not to lick the packaging and I am sure you will be ok.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on February 05, 2020, 02:57:01 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on February 04, 2020, 10:39:34 AM
Can this virus be transferred by post - expecting something from China soon.

You may find yourself on all sorts of watchlists with that question!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on February 05, 2020, 01:23:53 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on February 04, 2020, 10:39:34 AM
Can this virus be transferred by post - expecting something from China soon.
unless it's coming by carrier pigeon........... ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 05, 2020, 07:46:39 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on February 05, 2020, 01:23:53 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on February 04, 2020, 10:39:34 AM
Can this virus be transferred by post - expecting something from China soon.
unless it's coming by carrier pigeon........... ;D

Or it was bat shit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 06, 2020, 01:08:30 AM
Person under observation in Cork.
https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Coronavirus-fears-at-Cork-University-Hospital-Young-male-is-put-in-isolation-after-showing-symptoms-of-the-deadly-virus-d50a881f-d786-43d6-9e99-0cdbba02739b-ds
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 06, 2020, 03:34:00 PM
Senior hurling

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/02/05/chinas-coronavirus-not-remotely-control-world-economy-mounting2/

China's coronavirus is not remotely under control and the world economy is in mounting peril
•   AMBROSE EVANS-PRITCHARD
Follow

5 FEBRUARY 2020 • 10:34PM

The workshop of the world is closed. China is on a total-war footing. The Communist Party has evoked the "spirit of 1937" and mobilised all the instruments of its totalitarian surveillance system to fight both coronavirus, and the truth. Make GDP forecasts if you dare.
As of this week two-thirds of the Chinese economy remains shut. More than 80pc of its manufacturing industry is closed, rising to 90pc for exporters.
The Chinese economy is 17pc of the world economy and deeply integrated into international supply chains. It was just 4.5pc of world GDP during the SARS epidemic 2003, which some like to use as a reassuring template. You cannot shut down China for long these days without shutting down the world.
Wednesday's investor euphoria at reports of two new wonder drugs from Zhejiang University show how badly unhinged the market has become. This is not the way that medical science advances. Nor could these anti-virals possibly be ready, in time and at scale, to avert serious economic upheaval.
The open question is whether the coronavirus shock is enough to abort the fragile economic recovery underway since last summer's near miss, when frightened central bankers in the US, Europe and 47 other jurisdictions cut rates in a drastic monetary U-turn.
Personally, I think the glacial SARS episode tells us little about the fast-spreading Wuhan virus. The 2019-nCoV variant is more akin to the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918. It appears to be tracking the 1918 death rate at about 2.3pc (20 times normal winter flu) to the extent that we can believe any figures. There is some evidence that it is nearer 4.9pc in Wuhan.
The difference is that Spanish Flu felled the young, because their immune systems went into overdrive: this virus carries away the old.
There is no global economic safety margin. Both the US Federal Reserve and the European Central Bank have already relaunched quantitative easing - a bizarre thing to do if the US economy is really doing as well as Donald Trump claimed in his State of the Union address. Clearly US strength is a late-cycle illusion. Exhaustion has been masked by both by a blast of monetary stimulus and a fiscal deficit near 5pc of GDP.
The scale of disruption in China is already staggering. Hyundai, the fifth-biggest global car maker, has been forced to close all its factories at home in Korea for lack of key components. Volkswagen, Toyota, General Motors and Tesla have all downed tools at their Chinese plants, as has Apple's iPhone supplier Foxconn.
Crude prices have dropped 20pc since early January, that long-ago moment when eight Wuhan doctors were already trying to alert the world to the virus, only to be arrested for "spreading rumours".

How the price of oil has plummeted this year
From 2 Jan to 6 Feb 13:28:08
Jan681014162022242830Feb5-20.0%-15.0%-10.0%-5.0%0.0%
⬤ Brent Spot: 66.28 → 54.92-17.1%
More share information on

This is the biggest shock to oil markets since the Lehman crisis. The collapse in Chinese transport and refinery demand has cut imports by three million barrels a day; some say four million. This is twice the UK's North Sea oil output. An embattled OPEC is having to talk about yet further output cuts, a horrible surprise as the perpetual petro-drought grinds on into its sixth year.
"It's now clear that coronavirus is a serious event risk to the entire world and that financial conditions are tightening very quickly," said Edward Harrison from Credit Writedowns.
The channel of financial contagion runs from the epidemic through the oil price to a "bear market rout" in the broader energy sector, and from there to overstretched US junk bonds. "High yield is where the rubber hits the road," he said.
The coronavirus is the sort of Black Swan catalyst that the US Treasury's Office of Financial Research (OFR) frets about. Its latest stability report said corporate bonds are an accident waiting for such a trigger. The ratio of junk bonds with debt-to-earnings ratios above six has reached 30pc, above the pre-Lehman peak.
The number of investment-grade securities rated BBB or lower has risen fivefold since 2008, many perched just above junk. If fear takes hold there is likely to be a cascade of downgrades and "fallen angels", setting off a fire-sale by bond funds.
Commodity markets have taken the crisis on the chin because they are instant barometers of actual demand. Equity markets are instead shrugging off the Wuhan virus as media noise, betting that China's factories will reopen on February 14 or thereabouts as Beijing brings the epidemic under control.
This is a brave assumption and I can only marvel at analysts suggesting that the infection rate may be tailing off based on each day's official data. Are they aware of the astonishing accounts of Kafkaesque reality in Wuhan, Huanggang, and soon no doubt the 35m-strong megalopolis of Chongqing, where Britain has just closed its consulate?
Are they reading dispatches from Caixin or in the South China Morning Post revealing a desperate shortage of testing kits and tales of the walking afflicted (transport has been shut down) queuing for hours at hospitals, only to be turned away and sent home to die undiagnosed.
These glimpses of truth are about to vanish. The propaganda police have ordered those within their direct reach to conduct an "editorial review". Stories are being censored aggressively. Outsiders will be silenced in subtler ways.
The coronavirus numbers are patently fiction:
Far more have died than the official tally of 493. A Lancet study last week by the University of Hong Kong estimated that the Chinese authorities have understated the epidemic tenfold. This was based on a spread rate of 2.68 per case and a doubling in total numbers every 6.4 days, matched with known travel movements within China and globally since the outbreak.
It calculated even then that the true figure for Wuhan was likely to be 76,000, and that Chongqing,  Changsha, Nanchang, are already riddled with the disease. "Independent self-sustaining outbreaks in major cities globally could become inevitable," it said.
Views differ but it is striking how many global experts - when not under political pressure  - say it may already be too late to stop the spread. "It's very, very transmissible, and it almost certainly is going to be a pandemic," said Anthony Fauci, head of the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease.
It is the same warning from an "increasingly alarmed" Peter Piot, head of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. The danger is that it will become endemic and circulate everywhere like flu, a manageable headwind for rich countries with good health care but a Sword of Damocles having over Africa or South Asia.
There is an inherent contradiction in the market's nonchalance. Yes, it is possible that China's 50-million lockdown and use of extreme surveillance and coercive power will accelerate the process of "contact tracking", catching enough of those infected before they can spread it further. Such a hi-tech totalitarian response to an epidemic has never been tried before.
But the more thoroughly China enforces this, the greater the global economic shock is likely to be. How can industrial plants really be reopened next week? Yet if it takes another month, it becomes progressively harder to contain the international economic damage, and raises the risk of a Minsky Moment within China's own hyper-leveraged system keeps rising.
We are in treacherous waters. The People's Bank can no longer flick its fingers and ignite instant growth. Debt saturation and weak credit demand have furred up the monetary transmission channels. Extreme rate cuts and "QE with Chinese characteristics" would threaten to set of a yuan slide and ultimately a repeat of the 2015 currency crisis.
For now global markets remain in Pavlovian mode. There will always be more Chinese stimulus. Uncle Xi will always look after everybody. Close China-watchers - and some very sharp scientists - suspect that this latest flurry of optimism is just a lull before the thunderstorm.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 06, 2020, 06:11:23 PM
Original whistleblower doctor dies of virus.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51403795
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 06, 2020, 10:21:50 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 04, 2020, 03:01:05 AM
While I also agree that influenza should generally be taken more seriously, the Corona virus is currently running at 1 death every 50 confirmed cases (or approx 2%)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/)

I was wondering if the confirmed deaths tally was right (and not being underestimated) given the early reaction, but then your link says this:

QuoteA study found that out of 41 admitted hospital patients who had been identified as having laboratory-confirmed 2019-nCoV infection in China, 13 (32%) patients were admitted to an ICU and six (15%) died.[5]

Any wonder they were scared shitless if that was the earlier mortality rates.

So reasonably confident they are reporting true numbers (not that 2% is good or anything, but its better than 15%!).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 06, 2020, 11:30:58 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 06, 2020, 10:21:50 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 04, 2020, 03:01:05 AM
While I also agree that influenza should generally be taken more seriously, the Corona virus is currently running at 1 death every 50 confirmed cases (or approx 2%)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/)

I was wondering if the confirmed deaths tally was right (and not being underestimated) given the early reaction, but then your link says this:

QuoteA study found that out of 41 admitted hospital patients who had been identified as having laboratory-confirmed 2019-nCoV infection in China, 13 (32%) patients were admitted to an ICU and six (15%) died.[5]

Any wonder they were scared shitless if that was the earlier mortality rates.

So reasonably confident they are reporting true numbers (not that 2% is good or anything, but its better than 15%!).

Not everyone went to hospital though, some people only had moderate symptoms like 'flu. Only those badly affected ended up in hospital and more of these died.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 07, 2020, 12:57:09 AM
So, are we all fucked lads?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on February 07, 2020, 01:39:14 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 06, 2020, 11:30:58 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 06, 2020, 10:21:50 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 04, 2020, 03:01:05 AM
While I also agree that influenza should generally be taken more seriously, the Corona virus is currently running at 1 death every 50 confirmed cases (or approx 2%)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/)

I was wondering if the confirmed deaths tally was right (and not being underestimated) given the early reaction, but then your link says this:

QuoteA study found that out of 41 admitted hospital patients who had been identified as having laboratory-confirmed 2019-nCoV infection in China, 13 (32%) patients were admitted to an ICU and six (15%) died.[5]

Any wonder they were scared shitless if that was the earlier mortality rates.

So reasonably confident they are reporting true numbers (not that 2% is good or anything, but its better than 15%!).

Not everyone went to hospital though, some people only had moderate symptoms like 'flu. Only those badly affected ended up in hospital and more of these died.

But that would be the same with flu. The mortality rate for influenza is 0.055% of reported cases. Similarly, lots of people wouldn't report if they had the flu
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 07, 2020, 01:45:53 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 07, 2020, 12:57:09 AM
So, are we all fucked lads?

Only 2% of us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 11, 2020, 02:53:15 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/02/11/china-cannot-fight-coronavirus-avert-economic-crisis-time/

Ole Hansen, Saxo Bank's oil guru, said it is becoming a commodity massacre. "The world is facing the biggest demand shock since the 2009 global financial crisis".
There is an inherent contradiction in the market's nonchalance. Yes, it is possible that China's 50-million lockdown and use of extreme surveillance and coercive power will accelerate the process of "contact tracking", catching enough of those infected before they can spread it further. Such a hi-tech totalitarian response to an epidemic has never been tried before.
Shipping has buckled. Lloyd's List says tanker rates have crashed. To be exact, spot earnings on the TD3C Middle East to China route have fallen to $16,000 a day from $115,000 in early January, a pattern replicated for smaller vessels. It said "SIRE" ship inspections cannot be carried out in much of Asia. The closure of Chinese shipyards has paralysed drydock and retrofit work.
This from Richard Meade at Lloyd's List: "This health emergency has paralysed ports, it has disrupted schedules across all sectors, led to serious challenges for crew management, and prompted a round of container services to be withdrawn, with lines now forecasting issues well into the second quarter of the year. It has thrown the global gas market into turmoil," he said.
He told me Lloyd's is getting reports of ships floating round Asia unable to dock at port after port, and running out of food.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Muck Savage on February 11, 2020, 11:25:30 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 07, 2020, 01:39:14 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 06, 2020, 11:30:58 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 06, 2020, 10:21:50 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 04, 2020, 03:01:05 AM
While I also agree that influenza should generally be taken more seriously, the Corona virus is currently running at 1 death every 50 confirmed cases (or approx 2%)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/)

I was wondering if the confirmed deaths tally was right (and not being underestimated) given the early reaction, but then your link says this:

QuoteA study found that out of 41 admitted hospital patients who had been identified as having laboratory-confirmed 2019-nCoV infection in China, 13 (32%) patients were admitted to an ICU and six (15%) died.[5]

Any wonder they were scared shitless if that was the earlier mortality rates.

So reasonably confident they are reporting true numbers (not that 2% is good or anything, but its better than 15%!).

Not everyone went to hospital though, some people only had moderate symptoms like 'flu. Only those badly affected ended up in hospital and more of these died.

But that would be the same with flu. The mortality rate for influenza is 0.055% of reported cases. Similarly, lots of people wouldn't report if they had the flu

I don't understand where 2% is coming from. To date ~43k people confirmed to have got it, 4.3K cured and ~1K dead. That's close to a 20% kill rate! It has to be based on cured/dead and not based on number of people that got it. There's still about 38K with it and they could go either way before this is done.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on February 12, 2020, 12:30:19 AM
Quote from: Muck Savage on February 11, 2020, 11:25:30 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 07, 2020, 01:39:14 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 06, 2020, 11:30:58 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 06, 2020, 10:21:50 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 04, 2020, 03:01:05 AM
While I also agree that influenza should generally be taken more seriously, the Corona virus is currently running at 1 death every 50 confirmed cases (or approx 2%)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/)

I was wondering if the confirmed deaths tally was right (and not being underestimated) given the early reaction, but then your link says this:

QuoteA study found that out of 41 admitted hospital patients who had been identified as having laboratory-confirmed 2019-nCoV infection in China, 13 (32%) patients were admitted to an ICU and six (15%) died.[5]

Any wonder they were scared shitless if that was the earlier mortality rates.

So reasonably confident they are reporting true numbers (not that 2% is good or anything, but its better than 15%!).

Not everyone went to hospital though, some people only had moderate symptoms like 'flu. Only those badly affected ended up in hospital and more of these died.

But that would be the same with flu. The mortality rate for influenza is 0.055% of reported cases. Similarly, lots of people wouldn't report if they had the flu

I don't understand where 2% is coming from. To date ~43k people confirmed to have got it, 4.3K cured and ~1K dead. That's close to a 20% kill rate! It has to be based on cured/dead and not based on number of people that got it. There's still about 38K with it and they could go either way before this is done.

I think I would leave the calculation of mortality rates to people who do this for a living and not to some randomer on gaaboard making up his own percentages!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 12, 2020, 12:56:33 AM
QuoteBut that would be the same with flu. The mortality rate for influenza is 0.055% of reported cases. Similarly, lots of people wouldn't report if they had the flu

I wonder what effect is the present environment in China having on the spread of regular flu'? This might be good data for modelling the new virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on February 12, 2020, 01:09:24 AM
Quote from: Muck Savage on February 11, 2020, 11:25:30 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 07, 2020, 01:39:14 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 06, 2020, 11:30:58 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 06, 2020, 10:21:50 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 04, 2020, 03:01:05 AM
While I also agree that influenza should generally be taken more seriously, the Corona virus is currently running at 1 death every 50 confirmed cases (or approx 2%)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/)

I was wondering if the confirmed deaths tally was right (and not being underestimated) given the early reaction, but then your link says this:

QuoteA study found that out of 41 admitted hospital patients who had been identified as having laboratory-confirmed 2019-nCoV infection in China, 13 (32%) patients were admitted to an ICU and six (15%) died.[5]

Any wonder they were scared shitless if that was the earlier mortality rates.

So reasonably confident they are reporting true numbers (not that 2% is good or anything, but its better than 15%!).

Not everyone went to hospital though, some people only had moderate symptoms like 'flu. Only those badly affected ended up in hospital and more of these died.

But that would be the same with flu. The mortality rate for influenza is 0.055% of reported cases. Similarly, lots of people wouldn't report if they had the flu

I don't understand where 2% is coming from. To date ~43k people confirmed to have got it, 4.3K cured and ~1K dead. That's close to a 20% kill rate! It has to be based on cured/dead and not based on number of people that got it. There's still about 38K with it and they could go either way before this is done.

Mortality rate is the % of those infected who died from the infection.  Going by your figures, that's 1/43, which is slightly more than 2%.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on February 12, 2020, 02:45:55 AM
Quote from: Muck Savage on February 11, 2020, 11:25:30 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 07, 2020, 01:39:14 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 06, 2020, 11:30:58 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 06, 2020, 10:21:50 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on February 04, 2020, 03:01:05 AM
While I also agree that influenza should generally be taken more seriously, the Corona virus is currently running at 1 death every 50 confirmed cases (or approx 2%)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/)

I was wondering if the confirmed deaths tally was right (and not being underestimated) given the early reaction, but then your link says this:

QuoteA study found that out of 41 admitted hospital patients who had been identified as having laboratory-confirmed 2019-nCoV infection in China, 13 (32%) patients were admitted to an ICU and six (15%) died.[5]

Any wonder they were scared shitless if that was the earlier mortality rates.

So reasonably confident they are reporting true numbers (not that 2% is good or anything, but its better than 15%!).

Not everyone went to hospital though, some people only had moderate symptoms like 'flu. Only those badly affected ended up in hospital and more of these died.

But that would be the same with flu. The mortality rate for influenza is 0.055% of reported cases. Similarly, lots of people wouldn't report if they had the flu

I don’t understand where 2% is coming from. To date ~43k people confirmed to have got it, 4.3K cured and ~1K dead. That’s close to a 20% kill rate! It has to be based on cured/dead and not based on number of people that got it. There’s still about 38K with it and they could go either way before this is done.

Did you read the link i posted?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/)

I'm no expert, but until someone debunks this site, it seems an interesting source
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 12, 2020, 09:02:27 AM
It looks more serious than SARS

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-news-uk-china-death-toll-latest/

Two more British passengers aboard the Diamond Princess cruise ship have tested positive for the novel coronavirus, bringing the total number of Britons infected aboard the vessel to three.

An additional 39 people on board the Diamond Princess cruise ship off the Japan coast have tested positive for the new coronavirus, bringing the total to 174.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 12, 2020, 07:07:13 PM
The number of cases of infection with the new coronavirus in China has stabilised, but that apparent slowdown in the epidemic spread should be viewed with "extreme caution", the head of the World Health Organisation (WHO) said in Geneva on Wednesday (Feb 12).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 12, 2020, 08:24:06 PM
https://time.com/5782129/cruise-ship-stranded-coronavirus-fears/

The captain would surely have a level of indignation to surpass  anything that Mickey Harte and the Tyrone boys could come up with.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 16, 2020, 02:54:55 AM
Chinese government disinfecting used banknotes when they reach banks.


A total of 68,500 people have now been infected, the national health commission said, with most deaths occurring in
Hubei.

Meanwhile, a total of 9,419 patients  had been discharged from hospital after recovery by the end of Saturday. Saturday saw 1,323 people walk out of hospital after recovery, the commission said.

The number of new cases in other parts of the country has dropped for twelve straight days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on February 18, 2020, 02:26:22 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERBiUwmWAAUnHgl?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on February 18, 2020, 09:45:57 AM
The quarantine on this cruise ship must be first class, might as well threw them all into the ball room and let them at it, no one is safe on that thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on February 18, 2020, 10:40:28 AM
Is the reason this disease has spread so quickly in China because of the very poor sanitary conditions that they tend to accept?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on February 18, 2020, 03:11:34 PM
QuoteIs the reason this disease has spread so quickly in China because of the very poor sanitary conditions that they tend to accept

Its appears to be a reason for the outbreak.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on February 18, 2020, 03:40:28 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2020/0218/1116054-coronavirus-factsheet/

Whole thing is overblown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Frank_The_Tank on February 18, 2020, 03:43:45 PM
Quote from: highorlow on February 18, 2020, 03:40:28 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2020/0218/1116054-coronavirus-factsheet/

Whole thing is overblown.

Good reliable source

'Here are the main findings from the paper by the Chinese Centre for Disease Control and Prevention (CCDC)'

Bit like Kim Jong-un telling the North Koreans he wins the Olympic 100m gold.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 18, 2020, 04:13:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 10:40:28 AM
Is the reason this disease has spread so quickly in China because of the very poor sanitary conditions that they tend to accept?

These things spread, in Ireland most everyone (and most on this board) get a cold in the course of a winter.
The initial step from the animal virus to the human may have been more likely in China than here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on February 18, 2020, 04:25:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 18, 2020, 04:13:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 10:40:28 AM
Is the reason this disease has spread so quickly in China because of the very poor sanitary conditions that they tend to accept?

These things spread, in Ireland most everyone (and most on this board) get a cold in the course of a winter.
The initial step from the animal virus to the human may have been more likely in China than here.

It was similar with the ebola outbreak. Didn't a lot of the mourners insist on touching and kissing the dead bodies? Surely an education program around hand washing etc is a good start with these countries. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on February 18, 2020, 04:58:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 04:25:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 18, 2020, 04:13:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 10:40:28 AM
Is the reason this disease has spread so quickly in China because of the very poor sanitary conditions that they tend to accept?

These things spread, in Ireland most everyone (and most on this board) get a cold in the course of a winter.
The initial step from the animal virus to the human may have been more likely in China than here.

It was similar with the ebola outbreak. Didn't a lot of the mourners insist on touching and kissing the dead bodies? Surely an education program around hand washing etc is a good start with these countries.

It is a good start with all countries.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 18, 2020, 05:54:39 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on February 18, 2020, 04:58:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 04:25:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 18, 2020, 04:13:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 10:40:28 AM
Is the reason this disease has spread so quickly in China because of the very poor sanitary conditions that they tend to accept?

These things spread, in Ireland most everyone (and most on this board) get a cold in the course of a winter.
The initial step from the animal virus to the human may have been more likely in China than here.

It was similar with the ebola outbreak. Didn't a lot of the mourners insist on touching and kissing the dead bodies? Surely an education program around hand washing etc is a good start with these countries.

It is a good start with all countries.
Still fellas in work who wouldn't wash their hands after using the bog.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 18, 2020, 06:04:08 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 18, 2020, 05:54:39 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on February 18, 2020, 04:58:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 04:25:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 18, 2020, 04:13:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 10:40:28 AM
Is the reason this disease has spread so quickly in China because of the very poor sanitary conditions that they tend to accept?

These things spread, in Ireland most everyone (and most on this board) get a cold in the course of a winter.
The initial step from the animal virus to the human may have been more likely in China than here.

It was similar with the ebola outbreak. Didn't a lot of the mourners insist on touching and kissing the dead bodies? Surely an education program around hand washing etc is a good start with these countries.

It is a good start with all countries.
Still fellas in work who wouldn't wash their hands after using the bog.

I hope you don't work in a restaurant!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BenDover on February 19, 2020, 08:01:59 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 18, 2020, 05:54:39 PM
Still fellas in work who wouldn't wash their hands after using the bog.

There's nothing as bad as a middle aged man going to the bog and not washing his hands, we see it here all the time ffs  >:( >:(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 19, 2020, 11:28:36 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 10:40:28 AM
Is the reason this disease has spread so quickly in China because of the very poor sanitary conditions that they tend to accept?

Cities like Wuhan still have wet markets in which wild animals are sold for their meat alongside chickens etc. Unrefrigerated. A paradise for viruses.
The Chinese are hoors for Pangolin and other endangered species.

I saw meat on an openair slab in Egypt one time with flies taking off and landing like at an airport.
Food hygiene isn't a priority in many countries.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on February 19, 2020, 01:14:47 PM
Quote from: BenDover on February 19, 2020, 08:01:59 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 18, 2020, 05:54:39 PM
Still fellas in work who wouldn't wash their hands after using the bog.

There's nothing as bad as a middle aged man going to the bog and not washing his hands, we see it here all the time ffs  >:( >:(

What has age got to do with it? Is it more disturbing seeing a mature person doing it?

You would see lots of young lads at the exact same craic in any bog in the country on a night out... some of them have the pleasant habit of running their fingers through their trendy hairdo to make sure it is sitting just so after pissing over their hands. Hard to beat the lads who actually lick their fingers before starting on the hair though.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on February 19, 2020, 03:23:05 PM
The bit I struggle with in hygeine is after you go to the toilet, turn the tap on, wash your hands and then turn the tap off. You just touched the tap your dirty hands and many other dirty hands have just touched.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 19, 2020, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on February 19, 2020, 03:23:05 PM
The bit I struggle with in hygeine is after you go to the toilet, turn the tap on, wash your hands and then turn the tap off. You just touched the tap your dirty hands and many other dirty hands have just touched.

Taps aren't even the worst, how many toilets have a push door going in, with a handle on the inside. Even if you wash your hands you are undone once you go back through the door.
The only solution is to use a tissue for the tap and the door handle.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 19, 2020, 03:43:44 PM
When you think of all the handles, locks, doors you touch, then you go handling your  bits. Feck knows what you might pass on to your Netherlands region. God it's a minefield.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on February 19, 2020, 04:19:38 PM
Think about how much you handle money and how many people have touched that to really give you the heebie jeebies!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 19, 2020, 04:45:00 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 19, 2020, 04:19:38 PM
Think about how much you handle money and how many people have touched that to really give you the heebie jeebies!

indeed in China the banks are now disinfecting money when it reaches them and not putting back into circulation for 14 days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebuzz on February 19, 2020, 05:25:11 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 18, 2020, 05:54:39 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on February 18, 2020, 04:58:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 04:25:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 18, 2020, 04:13:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2020, 10:40:28 AM
Is the reason this disease has spread so quickly in China because of the very poor sanitary conditions that they tend to accept?

These things spread, in Ireland most everyone (and most on this board) get a cold in the course of a winter.
The initial step from the animal virus to the human may have been more likely in China than here.

It was similar with the ebola outbreak. Didn't a lot of the mourners insist on touching and kissing the dead bodies? Surely an education program around hand washing etc is a good start with these countries.

It is a good start with all countries.
Still fellas in work who wouldn't wash their hands after using the bog.

Reminds me of being at the Archway Tavern in North London many years ago. Some guy was giving my mate a hard time about not washing his hands when coming from the toilet. He turned around and said 'Me ma taught me not to pee on my hand!' . I thought it was a good one at the time. :) :) The same boy was always neat and tidy and could get a girl every night he went out.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on February 25, 2020, 12:07:33 PM
Armagh boys and girls school due to head to Italy in next few weeks on trips, worrying times.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on February 25, 2020, 12:23:23 PM
Worrying headline coming from AP!!

QuoteDUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — The head of Iran's counter-coronavirus task force has tested positive for the virus himself!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on February 25, 2020, 03:48:08 PM
One positive is the old "Now offer everyone the sign of peace" handshake has gone from mass at the minute.  Hateful at the best of times.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 04:04:06 PM
I think the next two weeks will show containment has utterly failed.

Question then is how to best treat those with it.

Hospitals probably won't be an option as there is nothing like sufficient space - and folks with already weakened immune systems should not be exposed where possible.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aristo 60 on February 25, 2020, 04:09:42 PM
shut the airports.

now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 25, 2020, 04:22:12 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on February 25, 2020, 04:09:42 PM
shut the airports.

now.

Not going to happen. It's the flu with a fatality rate of something like 1 or 2%. Not really a reason to shut down airports to be honest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 25, 2020, 04:23:43 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 04:04:06 PM
I think the next two weeks will show containment has utterly failed.

Containment has not "utterly" failed. Cases outside Hubei in China are falling, there are few new cases in places like Singapore.

The problem is how do you get things back to normal. If people who have had it do not remain infectious and do not get it again (unknown), then in Hubei there are now a significant number of people who could help others etc.

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 25, 2020, 04:22:12 PM
Not going to happen. It's the flu with a fatality rate of something like 1 or 2%. Not really a reason to shut down airports to be honest.

2% of the population of Ireland is 130,000 people. Easy to say don't worry about it if it isn't your family dying.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 25, 2020, 04:34:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 25, 2020, 04:23:43 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 04:04:06 PM
I think the next two weeks will show containment has utterly failed.

Containment has not "utterly" failed. Cases outside Hubei in China are falling, there are few new cases in places like Singapore.

The problem is how do you get things back to normal. If people who have had it do not remain infectious and do not get it again (unknown), then in Hubei there are now a significant number of people who could help others etc.

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 25, 2020, 04:22:12 PM
Not going to happen. It's the flu with a fatality rate of something like 1 or 2%. Not really a reason to shut down airports to be honest.

2% of the population of Ireland is 130,000 people. Easy to say don't worry about it if it isn't your family dying.

Not everyone will contract. Even if they do, vast majority still show no major effects other than common influenza.

Mass hysteria.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on February 25, 2020, 04:41:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 25, 2020, 04:23:43 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 04:04:06 PM
I think the next two weeks will show containment has utterly failed.

Containment has not "utterly" failed. Cases outside Hubei in China are falling, there are few new cases in places like Singapore.

The problem is how do you get things back to normal. If people who have had it do not remain infectious and do not get it again (unknown), then in Hubei there are now a significant number of people who could help others etc.

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 25, 2020, 04:22:12 PM
Not going to happen. It's the flu with a fatality rate of something like 1 or 2%. Not really a reason to shut down airports to be honest.

2% of the population of Ireland is 130,000 people. Easy to say don't worry about it if it isn't your family dying.

2% of the affected population die, not 2% of the entire population.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on February 25, 2020, 04:47:01 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on February 25, 2020, 04:09:42 PM
shut the airports.

now.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/4jOqk3ChYjQSk/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 04:48:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 25, 2020, 04:23:43 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 04:04:06 PM
I think the next two weeks will show containment has utterly failed.

Containment has not "utterly" failed. Cases outside Hubei in China are falling, there are few new cases in places like Singapore.

Utterly failed.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-korean-air/one-of-korean-airs-cabin-crew-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-idUSKCN20J0GK

Was on an A380 into (and out of) LA.


[Will have been handing out food & beverages to passengers.]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Denn Forever on February 25, 2020, 05:01:26 PM
school trips.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0225/1117449-europe-coronavirus/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 25, 2020, 05:10:17 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 25, 2020, 04:41:32 PM
2% of the affected population die, not 2% of the entire population.

So, given that nobody has had it before and there is no vaccine, what proportion of people will get it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on February 25, 2020, 05:16:54 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERn8P1LX0AAzZfy?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aaron Boone on February 25, 2020, 05:18:37 PM
Given what we know at this stage and what might happen, the only logical next step is to panic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on February 25, 2020, 05:22:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 25, 2020, 05:10:17 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 25, 2020, 04:41:32 PM
2% of the affected population die, not 2% of the entire population.

So, given that nobody has had it before and there is no vaccine, what proportion of people will get it?

Nobody knows what proportion will get it. People can have the virus and be completely fine for 14 days before showing symptoms. In that time they may have infected others in that time and it just cascades down. I think it would be extremely difficult to contain especially when you consider how slow China's response was to it...someone estimated that 5 million people would have visited and left the Hubei province between the first reported case and the lockdown. There are probably 10,000's of cases that are not being reported - Look at the super spreader from the UK - he thought it was just a cold and got on with his life.

Coronavirus supposedly started at the end of December but another study suggested it started on 1st December 2019. China's response to the virus has been poor and taking into consideration numerous factors such as how densely populated China is, poor hygiene practices both there and abroad I wouldn't be surprised if this virus is already worldwide but just isn't as dangerous as the media would have us believe.

I would suggest the best protection against the virus would be to wash hands with soap, cough/sneeze into your arm rather than through the air and when opening closing doors etc use your sleeve/arm. Try not to pick your nose, eat food, rub your eyes before washing your hands.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: WT4E on February 25, 2020, 05:44:14 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on February 25, 2020, 05:22:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 25, 2020, 05:10:17 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 25, 2020, 04:41:32 PM
2% of the affected population die, not 2% of the entire population.

So, given that nobody has had it before and there is no vaccine, what proportion of people will get it?

Nobody knows what proportion will get it. People can have the virus and be completely fine for 14 days before showing symptoms. In that time they may have infected others in that time and it just cascades down. I think it would be extremely difficult to contain especially when you consider how slow China's response was to it...someone estimated that 5 million people would have visited and left the Hubei province between the first reported case and the lockdown. There are probably 10,000's of cases that are not being reported - Look at the super spreader from the UK - he thought it was just a cold and got on with his life.

Coronavirus supposedly started at the end of December but another study suggested it started on 1st December 2019. China's response to the virus has been poor and taking into consideration numerous factors such as how densely populated China is, poor hygiene practices both there and abroad I wouldn't be surprised if this virus is already worldwide but just isn't as dangerous as the media would have us believe.

I would suggest the best protection against the virus would be to wash hands with soap, cough/sneeze into your arm rather than through the air and when opening closing doors etc use your sleeve/arm. Try not to pick your nose, eat food, rub your eyes before washing your hands.

WTF???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 06:12:15 PM
Quote from: WT4E on February 25, 2020, 05:44:14 PM
WTF???

Try not to eat food before you wash your hands...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 25, 2020, 06:13:30 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on February 25, 2020, 05:18:37 PM
Given what we know at this stage and what might happen, the only logical next step is to panic.

Buy a big freezer and get Sky, Netflix and Prime subscriptions and big drum of Dettol, and wait it out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 06:17:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 25, 2020, 06:13:30 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on February 25, 2020, 05:18:37 PM
Given what we know at this stage and what might happen, the only logical next step is to panic.

Buy a big freezer and get Sky, Netflix and Prime subscriptions and big drum of Dettol, and wait it out.

Away of that with yer bubblebath dettol.

Jeyes fluid is what yer lookin.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: playwiththewind1st on February 25, 2020, 07:08:06 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 25, 2020, 06:17:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 25, 2020, 06:13:30 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on February 25, 2020, 05:18:37 PM
Given what we know at this stage and what might happen, the only logical next step is to panic.

Buy a big freezer and get Sky, Netflix and Prime subscriptions and big drum of Dettol, and wait it out.

Away of that with yer bubblebath dettol.

Jeyes fluid is what yer lookin.

Either goes down well with Fever Tree.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 25, 2020, 09:21:21 PM
Well they are going to stop the rugby anyway.
Paddy's day looks a bit dodgy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on February 25, 2020, 09:52:07 PM
Sounds like a possible outbreak in Bray!

After what's going on in Italy there's no way the rugby is going ahead unless it's later behind closed doors or something... interesting point from IRFU though are Ireland not accepting flights from Italy now??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on February 25, 2020, 10:00:34 PM
Not wishing to be a scaremonger...but I'm in a WhatsApp group with a number of senior UK people in my firm, and one partner said today that he had lunch with a "very senior medical bod" who said the UK authorities are planning for potentially dealing with 60% infection rate, 100k deaths in the UK, and a peak outside of China in May. It is obviously worst case, but still worrying.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 25, 2020, 10:09:36 PM
Hopefully it's finished by July! Holiday booked and paid ffs!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 25, 2020, 10:30:54 PM
Quote from: Rois on February 25, 2020, 10:00:34 PM
Not wishing to be a scaremonger...but I'm in a WhatsApp group with a number of senior UK people in my firm, and one partner said today that he had lunch with a "very senior medical bod" who said the UK authorities are planning for potentially dealing with 60% infection rate, 100k deaths in the UK, and a peak outside of China in May. It is obviously worst case, but still worrying.

Probably 60% of the world will get it, but some of these measures are delaying things, so perhaps no peak in May. There is an advantage in delay, over the summer it may not get going in the northern hemisphere and if people get it over several months there is some chance of hospitals being able to cope. There are new tests being devised all the time and probably some better understanding of treatments. In a year or so they'll have a vaccine.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 25, 2020, 10:09:36 PM
Hopefully it's finished by July! Holiday booked and paid ffs!

Probably July will be the peak, the twelfth will be cancelled. I'm supposed to be in Asia then  :(
I would make sure that you have travel insurance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on February 25, 2020, 11:20:54 PM
Case in Barcelona today. I fly home Thursday for the weekend. I'd about Dublin airport then and Monday morning if I were you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on February 25, 2020, 11:44:37 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 25, 2020, 11:20:54 PM
Case in Barcelona today. I fly home Thursday for the weekend. I'd about Dublin airport then and Monday morning if I were you.

Wife was supposed to be attending a conference in Barcelona next week, but the company have cancelled all foreign travel. They are putting in place contingency plans so everyone can work from home.

I normally wouldn't take much notice of these things, but we are going to make sure we have enough food and basic essentials to last for at least two weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 25, 2020, 11:45:25 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 25, 2020, 11:20:54 PM
Case in Barcelona today. I fly home Thursday for the weekend. I'd about Dublin airport then and Monday morning if I were you.

even by Gaaboard standards this is unusually incomprehensible advice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on February 26, 2020, 12:48:36 AM
Sure let's cancel the rugby, but let all the Italians who'll be using their flights anyway head over to Ireland for the weekend ... WTF.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: DrinkingHarp on February 26, 2020, 01:15:27 AM
Watched the World News Tonight on ABC in the States and was reported that it will be when not if when it hits the US. Shortage on N95 respirator medical masks, only 30 million for Dept of Homeland Security and medical professionals alone would need 300 million. Did a google search for the mask near Chicago, all sold out. Amazon and Ebay are seeing 300-1500% markup on masks and will only get worse.

People worldwide will be hoarding every staple you use in everyday life till contaiment, there were armed people stealing toliet paper in China. This virus will bring out the worst in human society.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omaghjoe on February 26, 2020, 03:06:11 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on February 26, 2020, 12:48:36 AM
Sure let's cancel the rugby, but let all the Italians who'll be using their flights anyway head over to Ireland for the weekend ... WTF.
:-)
Musta killed A Fine Gaeler to cancel the rugby
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omaghjoe on February 26, 2020, 03:09:53 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on February 26, 2020, 01:15:27 AM
Watched the World News Tonight on ABC in the States and was reported that it will be when not if when it hits the US. Shortage on N95 respirator medical masks, only 30 million for Dept of Homeland Security and medical professionals alone would need 300 million. Did a google search for the mask near Chicago, all sold out. Amazon and Ebay are seeing 300-1500% markup on masks and will only get worse.

People worldwide will be hoarding every staple you use in everyday life till contaiment, there were armed people stealing toliet paper in China. This virus will bring out the worst in human society.

What for I wonder, sure they dont use it for what we do with it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on February 26, 2020, 06:35:00 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 25, 2020, 11:45:25 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 25, 2020, 11:20:54 PM
Case in Barcelona today. I fly home Thursday for the weekend. I'd about Dublin airport then and Monday morning if I were you.

even by Gaaboard standards this is unusually incomprehensible advice.

Auto-correct cheerfully naturally corrected, my good man
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on February 26, 2020, 09:15:02 AM
Keep and eye on this;

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 (https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hereiam on February 26, 2020, 12:01:47 PM
Christ almighty its only a bad sniffle that is going about. Governments are not worried about peoples health they are only worried about a dip in their GDP as when it hits alot people will be off sick at the one time for a considerable period of time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on February 26, 2020, 12:07:43 PM
Quote from: Rois on February 25, 2020, 10:00:34 PM
Not wishing to be a scaremonger...but I'm in a WhatsApp group with a number of senior UK people in my firm, and one partner said today that he had lunch with a "very senior medical bod" who said the UK authorities are planning for potentially dealing with 60% infection rate, 100k deaths in the UK, and a peak outside of China in May. It is obviously worst case, but still worrying.

(http://www.doyouremember.co.uk/uploads/raw-1347357284-595x417-resize.jpg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2020, 12:25:09 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 26, 2020, 12:15:52 PM
Why aren't people as panicked about seasonal influenza? It kills far far more people every year than Coronavirus ever will.

The flu kills around 1 in 50000 people it infects.

This kills around 1 in 50 people it infects.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 26, 2020, 12:39:45 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2020, 12:25:09 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 26, 2020, 12:15:52 PM
Why aren't people as panicked about seasonal influenza? It kills far far more people every year than Coronavirus ever will.

The flu kills around 1 in 50000 people it infects.

This kills around 1 in 50 people it infects.

As of the latest information there are 80,239 infections (908 considered new).

Total worldwide deaths are 2,666 in China and 34 Otherwise Worldwide

80,239 / 2700 = 29.71

1 in 29, now I don't have the time but I bet if we profile the 2,700 deaths nearly all will be over 60 and already sick which lowers this number even further as we consider ourselves a relatively healthy nation with a fairly decent immunisation scheme from birth.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on February 26, 2020, 12:40:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 26, 2020, 12:15:52 PM
Why aren't people as panicked about seasonal influenza? It kills far far more people every year than Coronavirus ever will.

A few reasons

1. This is a new virus, previously unknown in humans. We don't know that much about it or what possible mutations may occur
2. There's currently no vaccination for this virus
3. Open to correction on this but the incubation period for the seasonal flu is ~3 days during which time you're not contagious compared to ~14 days for this virus during which you are contagious
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on February 26, 2020, 12:53:53 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 26, 2020, 03:06:11 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on February 26, 2020, 12:48:36 AM
Sure let's cancel the rugby, but let all the Italians who'll be using their flights anyway head over to Ireland for the weekend ... WTF.
:-)
Musta killed A Fine Gaeler to cancel the rugby

Matt Cooper was so upset about the rugby yesterday that, wait for it, he actually openly criticised a FG minister. The potential effects of Corona Virus really are seismic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on February 26, 2020, 01:08:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 26, 2020, 12:53:53 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 26, 2020, 03:06:11 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on February 26, 2020, 12:48:36 AM
Sure let's cancel the rugby, but let all the Italians who'll be using their flights anyway head over to Ireland for the weekend ... WTF.
:-)
Musta killed A Fine Gaeler to cancel the rugby

Matt Cooper was so upset about the rugby yesterday that, wait for it, he actually openly criticised a FG minister. The potential effects of Corona Virus really are seismic.

We truly live in a defining era.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on February 26, 2020, 01:25:02 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 26, 2020, 01:08:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 26, 2020, 12:53:53 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on February 26, 2020, 03:06:11 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on February 26, 2020, 12:48:36 AM
Sure let's cancel the rugby, but let all the Italians who'll be using their flights anyway head over to Ireland for the weekend ... WTF.
:-)
Musta killed A Fine Gaeler to cancel the rugby

Matt Cooper was so upset about the rugby yesterday that, wait for it, he actually openly criticised a FG minister. The potential effects of Corona Virus really are seismic.

We truly live in a defining era.

Ah, but the Army Council something or other................... it's their fault
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on February 26, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 26, 2020, 12:40:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 26, 2020, 12:15:52 PM
Why aren't people as panicked about seasonal influenza? It kills far far more people every year than Coronavirus ever will.

A few reasons

1. This is a new virus, previously unknown in humans. We don't know that much about it or what possible mutations may occur
2. There's currently no vaccination for this virus
3. Open to correction on this but the incubation period for the seasonal flu is ~3 days during which time you're not contagious compared to ~14 days for this virus during which you are contagious

If you already have underlying health conditions that mean you are immunised for the flu every year, then I would be quite concerned by the new virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 26, 2020, 02:30:46 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 26, 2020, 09:15:02 AM
Keep and eye on this;

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 (https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6)

Great guide - also interesting how we manage to get loads of people to think this is doomsday, suppose it makes more interesting news when there are 30k of 80k completely confirmed clear of the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 26, 2020, 02:36:54 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 26, 2020, 02:30:46 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 26, 2020, 09:15:02 AM
Keep and eye on this;

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 (https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6)

Great guide - also interesting how we manage to get loads of people to think this is doomsday, suppose it makes more interesting news when there are 30k of 80k completely confirmed clear of the virus.

This is not going to wipe out the human race.
However, if it comes in a wave so that hospitals cannot cope then a lot of vulnerable people may die.
If you take somewhere like Singapore which was not overwhelmed and has a good health system, then it is manageable. The aim in Europe is to do likewise. However, in Italy it got going without anyone spotting it, even though flights to China had been stopped.

Singapore
Confirmed: 91
Deaths: 0
Recovered: 62
Existing: 29
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2020, 03:36:31 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 26, 2020, 12:39:45 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2020, 12:25:09 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 26, 2020, 12:15:52 PM
Why aren't people as panicked about seasonal influenza? It kills far far more people every year than Coronavirus ever will.

The flu kills around 1 in 50000 people it infects.

This kills around 1 in 50 people it infects.

As of the latest information there are 80,239 infections (908 considered new).

Total worldwide deaths are 2,666 in China and 34 Otherwise Worldwide

80,239 / 2700 = 29.71

1 in 29, now I don't have the time but I bet if we profile the 2,700 deaths nearly all will be over 60 and already sick which lowers this number even further as we consider ourselves a relatively healthy nation with a fairly decent immunisation scheme from birth.

No.

That is completely wrong. You cannot measure mortality rates by including people who have yet to recover (or yet to die I suppose, but lets be optimistic!).

As of what I have to hand, there are 2,770 deaths and 30,311 cured. That is nearly 10%.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on February 26, 2020, 03:41:30 PM
Coronavirus: Ireland v Italy Six Nations games postponed over health concerns
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 26, 2020, 05:18:39 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2020, 03:36:31 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 26, 2020, 12:39:45 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2020, 12:25:09 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 26, 2020, 12:15:52 PM
Why aren't people as panicked about seasonal influenza? It kills far far more people every year than Coronavirus ever will.

The flu kills around 1 in 50000 people it infects.

This kills around 1 in 50 people it infects.

As of the latest information there are 80,239 infections (908 considered new).

Total worldwide deaths are 2,666 in China and 34 Otherwise Worldwide

80,239 / 2700 = 29.71

1 in 29, now I don't have the time but I bet if we profile the 2,700 deaths nearly all will be over 60 and already sick which lowers this number even further as we consider ourselves a relatively healthy nation with a fairly decent immunisation scheme from birth.

No.

That is completely wrong. You cannot measure mortality rates by including people who have yet to recover (or yet to die I suppose, but lets be optimistic!).

As of what I have to hand, there are 2,770 deaths and 30,311 cured. That is nearly 10%.

The context is that 1.4 bn people live in China with 78k infections there - that is an extremely low percentage in what is accepted as the breeding ground for the virus. Personally I would have expected much greater considering the relative poverty and diet of the Chinese (I have been there).

WHO have now said more 'new' infections are happening outside China than inside.

Already it looks like this coronavirus has peaked at source going on the above, there is no need for the scaremongering. The issue here is some people seem to think this will greatly affect their lives here, it will not and you'll possibly never hear of this kind of thing again when it runs its course. Of course new cases will continue to pop up for the next few days probably in places like India and Pakistan/Afganistan especially, maybe even weeks but it will run it's course.

Greater context, over the past say, 8 years in Syria some 300-500k people have been killed - but that can't harm you here so nobody really cares and to much, much less media issues. They certainly are not helping with the wild numbers being thrown around.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 26, 2020, 05:36:32 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 26, 2020, 05:18:39 PM
The context is that 1.4 bn people live in China with 78k infections there - that is an extremely low percentage in what is accepted as the breeding ground for the virus. Personally I would have expected much greater considering the relative poverty and diet of the Chinese (I have been there).

WHO have now said more 'new' infections are happening outside China than inside.

The context is that the Chinese have completely isolated vast areas of the country. The Western world will absolutely not be as quick to do that - both between govts not ordering it and people not accepting it. At this point, I assume its out across Europe and indeed within Ireland (the ski-trippers at midterm will have brought it back and spread).


Italy probably has in excess of 1000 people with it (between diagnosed and yet to be diagnosed) - and there are discussions about maybe closing the border. By the time they do decide to, that horse will have long since bolted and foaled.

While some countries (Singapore for instance), are 0 dead for 62 recovered - Italy are currently running at 12 dead for 1 recovered.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 09:07:03 AM
QuoteBy the time they do decide to, that horse will have long since bolted and foaled


It's reached it's peak or will over the next few days. So no horse to bolt.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 09:16:12 AM
Quote from: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 09:07:03 AM
QuoteBy the time they do decide to, that horse will have long since bolted and foaled


It's reached it's peak or will over the next few days. So no horse to bolt.

I hope your right.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 09:33:04 AM
QuoteI hope your right.


80% of the cases are mild.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 27, 2020, 09:34:19 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 09:16:12 AM
Quote from: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 09:07:03 AM
QuoteBy the time they do decide to, that horse will have long since bolted and foaled


It's reached it's peak or will over the next few days. So no horse to bolt.

I hope your right.

This is a warning though. All these govts need to think about a worse outbreak that probably will happen in future. For all intents and purposes this one is the Flu...a mutated version albeit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cavan19 on February 27, 2020, 10:43:51 AM
Quote from: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 09:07:03 AM
QuoteBy the time they do decide to, that horse will have long since bolted and foaled


It's reached it's peak or will over the next few days. So no horse to bolt.

I would like to believe that is the case and would hope it is.

However are all signs not showing that this is spreading ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 11:19:19 AM
QuoteI would like to believe that is the case and would hope it is.

However are all signs not showing that this is spreading ?

UK = 13 cases , 0 deaths, 8 recovered
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cavan19 on February 27, 2020, 11:30:05 AM
Quote from: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 11:19:19 AM
QuoteI would like to believe that is the case and would hope it is.

However are all signs not showing that this is spreading ?

UK = 13 cases , 0 deaths, 8 recovered

It's is very early days though it hasn't really spread yet in Ireland and UK which i predict it will in the next few days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on February 27, 2020, 11:31:21 AM
Must be some lads on here qualified as virologists or working for CDC given the certainty with which they pronounce the outcome of the spread of a new virus. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 11:35:06 AM
Quote from: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 11:19:19 AM
QuoteI would like to believe that is the case and would hope it is.

However are all signs not showing that this is spreading ?

UK = 13 cases , 0 deaths, 8 recovered

Italy = 12 dead, 3 recovered.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cavan19 on February 27, 2020, 11:42:43 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 27, 2020, 11:31:21 AM
Must be some lads on here qualified as virologists or working for CDC given the certainty with which they pronounce the outcome of the spread of a new virus.

True the W.H.O hasn't got to grips with it yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: weareros on February 27, 2020, 12:09:18 PM
From an American perspective but worth a listen to on how easily this spreads (surfaces the danger) and that a vaccine will take a year at best.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/27/podcasts/the-daily/coronavirus.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 01:16:08 PM
QuoteItaly = 12 dead, 3 recovered.

Italy 453 cases, 12 dead, 40 recovered.

The last 3 to die in Italy were 83, 84 and 91. No death is easy but the way the m€dia are carrying on in relation to this is ridiculous. If these 3 people got another strain of flu would they have died also?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 01:33:49 PM
Quote from: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 01:16:08 PM
QuoteItaly = 12 dead, 3 recovered.

Italy 453 cases, 12 dead, 40 recovered.


Again - number of cases is irrelevant.

You do not know which way those outstanding cases will go.

Excellent on the shoot up in recovered numbers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: weareros on February 27, 2020, 01:35:11 PM
Quote from: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 01:16:08 PM
QuoteItaly = 12 dead, 3 recovered.

Italy 453 cases, 12 dead, 40 recovered.

The last 3 to die in Italy were 83, 84 and 91. No death is easy but the way the m€dia are carrying on in relation to this is ridiculous. If these 3 people got another strain of flu would they have died also?

Based on the Chinese stats (which would not be the most scientific), the death rate was around 2-2.5% whereas it is 0.1% for flu. So death rate from this could be 25 times higher. I'm taking this from the expert in the podcast I linked above, who think this could be like the Spanish Flu of 1918. If you have a circle of 300 people you know well, and this becomes a pandemic, 6 people you know will die from this. It mostly attacks age 30 and above and children seem to be immune. Mostly killed older Chinese men who were likely to be heavy smokers and therefore had weaker lungs. It could attack worse next Winter as viruses don't like warmer weather (not that that helps us in Ireland). Best case scenario is that this is media hype; worse case it will kill a lot of people before a vaccine is developed. Vaccine's usually take a year.




Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 02:08:35 PM
The death rate appears to be geographical so basing a global one on the China stats is wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on February 27, 2020, 02:11:42 PM
all schools in japan to close from monday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 27, 2020, 02:17:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 27, 2020, 02:11:42 PM
all schools in japan to close from monday.

Overpopulated country. Makes sense from a prevention of spreading as opposed to any harm, they themselves might face.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 27, 2020, 02:46:42 PM
Quote from: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 01:16:08 PM
The last 3 to die in Italy were 83, 84 and 91. No death is easy but the way the m€dia are carrying on in relation to this is ridiculous. If these 3 people got another strain of flu would they have died also?

Yes, they might have died of the flu, if they had got it. However, they and those caring from them would have been vaccinated against the common types of flu, so they might never have got flu.
The media is being the media, but we should not minimise this. If 5 times are many people get this dose than of flu because of no vaccine and no immunity and if it twice as likely to cause complications then the demand on hospitals increases 10 times (and these are conservative calculations). At some point, hospitals cannot cope so the death rate then begins to shoot up as people who would otherwise survive are not getting proper treatment.

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 27, 2020, 02:17:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 27, 2020, 02:11:42 PM
all schools in japan to close from monday.

Overpopulated country. Makes sense from a prevention of spreading as opposed to any harm, they themselves might face.

It seems that children and young people don't face a particular problem with this, which is not always the case with flu. But some of these children live with their grandparents and they could kill them by carrying the pox into the household.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 27, 2020, 02:53:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 27, 2020, 02:46:42 PM
Quote from: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 01:16:08 PM
The last 3 to die in Italy were 83, 84 and 91. No death is easy but the way the m€dia are carrying on in relation to this is ridiculous. If these 3 people got another strain of flu would they have died also?

Yes, they might have died of the flu, if they had got it. However, they and those caring from them would have been vaccinated against the common types of flu, so they might never have got flu.
The media is being the media, but we should not minimise this. If 5 times are many people get this dose than of flu because of no vaccine and no immunity and if it twice as likely to cause complications then the demand on hospitals increases 10 times (and these are conservative calculations). At some point, hospitals cannot cope so the death rate then begins to shoot up as people who would otherwise survive are not getting proper treatment.

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 27, 2020, 02:17:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 27, 2020, 02:11:42 PM
all schools in japan to close from monday.

Overpopulated country. Makes sense from a prevention of spreading as opposed to any harm, they themselves might face.

It seems that children and young people don't face a particular problem with this, which is not always the case with flu. But some of these children live with their grandparents and they could kill them by carrying the pox into the household.

Agreed, might seem quite a harsh move on the face of it but schools are breeding grounds as we know. Quite smart from the Japanese, they are taking positive steps anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on February 27, 2020, 03:25:49 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 01:33:49 PM
Quote from: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 01:16:08 PM
QuoteItaly = 12 dead, 3 recovered.

Italy 453 cases, 12 dead, 40 recovered.


Again - number of cases is irrelevant.

You do not know which way those outstanding cases will go.

Excellent on the shoot up in recovered numbers.

I've a cousin working in one of the UK hospitals that has some of the 13 UK patients.

He reckons the total cases number and also the total recovered number are misleading. The vast majority of people who get this only have a mild illness, so most of them don't get picked up. He reckons the Italy number is closer to 5,000 cases and then obviously the vast majority of them either recovering or recovered.

Sometime between mid and end of March he's very confident it will be downgraded in severity. Of course there is a risk he could be wrong, but so far he says he's not worried.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on February 27, 2020, 04:27:05 PM
60 confirmed cases in the US and none in Mexico...

Maybe the Mexicans should be closing the border!

;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 04:42:08 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 27, 2020, 04:27:05 PM
60 confirmed cases in the US and none in Mexico...

Maybe the Mexicans should be closing the border!

;D

They need a wall.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 27, 2020, 05:11:58 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 27, 2020, 03:25:49 PM
Sometime between mid and end of March he's very confident it will be downgraded in severity. Of course there is a risk he could be wrong, but so far he says he's not worried.

I suppose this view would have to explain why health services in Wuhan were overcome and what was different so that this would not happen elsewhere.
I don't think the situation is hopeless. Singapore hasn't had an epidemic, but they didn't ignore it either and remain at orange alert.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on February 27, 2020, 05:26:18 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 01:33:49 PM
Quote from: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 01:16:08 PM
QuoteItaly = 12 dead, 3 recovered.

Italy 453 cases, 12 dead, 40 recovered.


Again - number of cases is irrelevant.

You do not know which way those outstanding cases will go.

Excellent on the shoot up in recovered numbers.

But the number of cases is relevant in determining the fatality rate.  That's by definition the number of deaths divided by the number of cases.   As you say, we don't know how those other cases are going to go, but all that can be done is to add them to the numbers as they either recover or die, and update the fatality rate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on February 27, 2020, 05:50:01 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 27, 2020, 03:25:49 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 01:33:49 PM
Quote from: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 01:16:08 PM
QuoteItaly = 12 dead, 3 recovered.

Italy 453 cases, 12 dead, 40 recovered.


Again - number of cases is irrelevant.

You do not know which way those outstanding cases will go.

Excellent on the shoot up in recovered numbers.

I've a cousin working in one of the UK hospitals that has some of the 13 UK patients.

He reckons the total cases number and also the total recovered number are misleading. The vast majority of people who get this only have a mild illness, so most of them don't get picked up. He reckons the Italy number is closer to 5,000 cases and then obviously the vast majority of them either recovering or recovered.

Sometime between mid and end of March he's very confident it will be downgraded in severity. Of course there is a risk he could be wrong, but so far he says he's not worried.
I think your relation talks sense.
The majority of people already have varying degrees of a naturally acquired immunity, regardless of whatever strain is in the air. It's a generally acccepted truth that a person who has done a strain of one flu type learns an immune response to that strain for the future  and that learned immunity will also be of varying benefit in the event of exposure to another strain.
A vaccination does not grant a learned immunity even to same flu strain - therefore the repeat vaccinations and is of no benefit with other flu strains.
According to an article in Lanclet, most at risk from developing serious patholgy or even death is the same as with any flu,  the inveterate nicotine addicts/smokers,  older people with underlying issues which are being medicated and people with underlying respiratory issues, also medicated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on February 27, 2020, 06:00:02 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 27, 2020, 05:50:01 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 27, 2020, 03:25:49 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 01:33:49 PM
Quote from: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 01:16:08 PM
QuoteItaly = 12 dead, 3 recovered.

Italy 453 cases, 12 dead, 40 recovered.


Again - number of cases is irrelevant.

You do not know which way those outstanding cases will go.

Excellent on the shoot up in recovered numbers.

I've a cousin working in one of the UK hospitals that has some of the 13 UK patients.

He reckons the total cases number and also the total recovered number are misleading. The vast majority of people who get this only have a mild illness, so most of them don't get picked up. He reckons the Italy number is closer to 5,000 cases and then obviously the vast majority of them either recovering or recovered.

Sometime between mid and end of March he's very confident it will be downgraded in severity. Of course there is a risk he could be wrong, but so far he says he's not worried.
I think your relation talks sense.
The majority of people already have varying degrees of a naturally acquired immunity, regardless of whatever strain is in the air. It's a generally acccepted truth that a person who has done a strain of one flu type learns an immune response to that strain for the future  and that learned immunity will also be of varying benefit in the event of exposure to another strain.
A vaccination does not grant a learned immunity even to same flu strain - therefore the repeat vaccinations and is of no benefit with other flu strains.
According to an article in Lanclet, most at risk from developing serious patholgy or even death is the same as with any flu,  the inveterate nicotine addicts/smokers,  older people with underlying issues which are being medicated and people with underlying respiratory issues, also medicated.

This virus is not from the same family of viruses as the seasonal flu so there is no underlying immunity that you're referring to
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 27, 2020, 06:09:47 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 27, 2020, 06:00:02 PM
This virus is not from the same family of viruses as the seasonal flu so there is no underlying immunity that you're referring to

Which is precisly the problem. When a dose went around 10 years ago it was a first cousin of a variant from 1968 and many older people had some protection as a result. Nobody has any immunity to this, which is why the experts expect 60% to get it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 27, 2020, 07:01:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 27, 2020, 06:09:47 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 27, 2020, 06:00:02 PM
This virus is not from the same family of viruses as the seasonal flu so there is no underlying immunity that you're referring to

Which is precisly the problem. When a dose went around 10 years ago it was a first cousin of a variant from 1968 and many older people had some protection as a result. Nobody has any immunity to this, which is why the experts expect 60% to get it.

60% of the world population?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 27, 2020, 07:05:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 27, 2020, 07:01:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 27, 2020, 06:09:47 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 27, 2020, 06:00:02 PM
This virus is not from the same family of viruses as the seasonal flu so there is no underlying immunity that you're referring to

Which is precisly the problem. When a dose went around 10 years ago it was a first cousin of a variant from 1968 and many older people had some protection as a result. Nobody has any immunity to this, which is why the experts expect 60% to get it.

60% of the world population?

Yes, over the course of the next year or two. Perhaps the people in Tristan de Cunha will not get it.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/?utm_source=feed

First case confirmed in 6 counties.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aristo 60 on February 27, 2020, 08:55:43 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on February 25, 2020, 04:09:42 PM
shut the airports.

now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 27, 2020, 09:48:00 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on February 27, 2020, 08:55:43 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on February 25, 2020, 04:09:42 PM
shut the airports.

now.

A week too late.

I'm away to live in the childer's Treehouse until this blows over.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on February 27, 2020, 10:21:02 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 27, 2020, 06:00:02 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 27, 2020, 05:50:01 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 27, 2020, 03:25:49 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 27, 2020, 01:33:49 PM
Quote from: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 01:16:08 PM
QuoteItaly = 12 dead, 3 recovered.

Italy 453 cases, 12 dead, 40 recovered.


Again - number of cases is irrelevant.

You do not know which way those outstanding cases will go.

Excellent on the shoot up in recovered numbers.

I've a cousin working in one of the UK hospitals that has some of the 13 UK patients.

He reckons the total cases number and also the total recovered number are misleading. The vast majority of people who get this only have a mild illness, so most of them don't get picked up. He reckons the Italy number is closer to 5,000 cases and then obviously the vast majority of them either recovering or recovered.

Sometime between mid and end of March he's very confident it will be downgraded in severity. Of course there is a risk he could be wrong, but so far he says he's not worried.
I think your relation talks sense.
The majority of people already have varying degrees of a naturally acquired immunity, regardless of whatever strain is in the air. It's a generally acccepted truth that a person who has done a strain of one flu type learns an immune response to that strain for the future  and that learned immunity will also be of varying benefit in the event of exposure to another strain.
A vaccination does not grant a learned immunity even to same flu strain - therefore the repeat vaccinations and is of no benefit with other flu strains.
According to an article in Lanclet, most at risk from developing serious patholgy or even death is the same as with any flu,  the inveterate nicotine addicts/smokers,  older people with underlying issues which are being medicated and people with underlying respiratory issues, also medicated.

This virus is not from the same family of viruses as the seasonal flu so there is no underlying immunity that you're referring to
Well, the evidence points to that there is immunity.There are degrees of immunity and that is blatantly evident in that the vast majority of those who get exposed to this virus either can adapt with no symptoms or experience mild symptoms. That is what defines a good immune reaction.
And the evidence as recorded, is that immune response learned from experiencing one flu  can be used in part  against another flu strain, family diffferences notwithstanding.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on February 27, 2020, 11:38:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 27, 2020, 09:48:00 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on February 27, 2020, 08:55:43 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on February 25, 2020, 04:09:42 PM
shut the airports.

now.

A week too late.

I'm away to live in the childer's Treehouse until this blows over.

I reckon a few months on Tory Island could be in order.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on February 28, 2020, 10:06:55 AM
Newcastle introduce handshake ban
Well that's exactly what you should now expect as Newcastle have introduced a training ground handshake ban in an attempt to stop the spread of the coronavirus.

"There's a ritual here that everybody shakes hands with everybody as soon as we see each other every morning - we've stopped that on the advice of the doctor," Bruce said
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: toby47 on February 28, 2020, 10:22:15 AM
Mainland China
Total Number of cases - 78,824
Deaths 2.5%
Unresolved 50.6%
Recoveries 45.9%

South Korea
Total Number of cases - 2,337
Deaths 0.6%
Unresolved 98.5%
Recoveries 0.9%

Italy
Total Number of cases - 655
Deaths 2.6%
Unresolved 90.5%
Recoveries 6.9%

Iran
Total Number of cases - 270
Deaths 9.6%
Unresolved 72.2%
Recoveries 18.1%

Japan
Total Number of cases - 226
Deaths 1.8%
Unresolved 88.5%
Recoveries 9.7%
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on February 28, 2020, 10:57:05 AM
The idea or one idea about enforcing isolation on an infected area is to buy time for unaffected areas and allow for prepartions. What is the rationale for calling off the rugby international because some thousands of Italians would be attending? yet the Italians will be travelling to Ireland in their thousands and presumably in close social contact with Irish people over a period of 48 hours or so. Either impose a travel ban or allow the mingling. The stunt to ban the game  just smacks of phony finger in the dyke grandstanding.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 28, 2020, 11:08:00 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 28, 2020, 10:57:05 AM
The idea or one idea about enforcing isolation on an infected area is to buy time for unaffected areas and allow for prepartions. What is the rationale for calling off the rugby international because some thousands of Italians would be attending? yet the Italians will be travelling to Ireland in their thousands and presumably in close social contact with Irish people over a period of 48 hours or so. Either impose a travel ban or allow the mingling. The stunt to ban the game  just smacks of phony finger in the dyke grandstanding.

Walking past a person in a shop is not the same as sitting beside them for 2 hours.
Switzerland has banned events of >1000 people from now. There is a balance in these things.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on February 28, 2020, 11:22:53 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 28, 2020, 11:08:00 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 28, 2020, 10:57:05 AM
The idea or one idea about enforcing isolation on an infected area is to buy time for unaffected areas and allow for prepartions. What is the rationale for calling off the rugby international because some thousands of Italians would be attending? yet the Italians will be travelling to Ireland in their thousands and presumably in close social contact with Irish people over a period of 48 hours or so. Either impose a travel ban or allow the mingling. The stunt to ban the game  just smacks of phony finger in the dyke grandstanding.

Walking past a person in a shop is not the same as sitting beside them for 2 hours.
Switzerland has banned events of >1000 people from now. There is a balance in these things.

Like sitting beside a person in an airplane for over two hours?  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 28, 2020, 11:36:36 AM
Quote from: Taylor on February 28, 2020, 11:22:53 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 28, 2020, 11:08:00 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 28, 2020, 10:57:05 AM
The idea or one idea about enforcing isolation on an infected area is to buy time for unaffected areas and allow for prepartions. What is the rationale for calling off the rugby international because some thousands of Italians would be attending? yet the Italians will be travelling to Ireland in their thousands and presumably in close social contact with Irish people over a period of 48 hours or so. Either impose a travel ban or allow the mingling. The stunt to ban the game  just smacks of phony finger in the dyke grandstanding.

Walking past a person in a shop is not the same as sitting beside them for 2 hours.
Switzerland has banned events of >1000 people from now. There is a balance in these things.

Like sitting beside a person in an airplane for over two hours?  :o

That too, hence the tracing of the people sitting beside the woman from Belfast. It is harder to trace who was sitting beside you at a game.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on February 28, 2020, 11:41:28 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 27, 2020, 10:21:02 PM
Well, the evidence points to that there is immunity.There are degrees of immunity and that is blatantly evident in that the vast majority of those who get exposed to this virus either can adapt with no symptoms or experience mild symptoms. That is what defines a good immune reaction.
And the evidence as recorded, is that immune response learned from experiencing one flu  can be used in part  against another flu strain, family diffferences notwithstanding.

This is not a flu virus!!! The only relationship it has to the flu virus is that it causes respiratory problems. It's like saying sharks and wolves are the same because they're both vertebrates and they both bite. From a technical point of view, the flu viruses are classified as follows (taken from wiki):

Realm:  Riboviria 
Phylum:  Negarnaviricota 
Class:  Insthoviricetes 
Order:  Articulavirales 
Family:  Orthomyxoviridae 

While the corona virus is:

Realm:  Riboviria 
Phylum:  incertae sedis 
Order:  Nidovirales 
Family:  Coronaviridae 

The fact that most people get mild symptoms cannot be attributed to an underlying immunity gained from previous flu viruses (unless there is actual studies proving this) - as shown by the fact that very young children (who would have low underlying immunity) are apparently not susceptible to this virus.

Virology is complicated stuff!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on February 28, 2020, 11:41:44 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 28, 2020, 11:36:36 AM
Quote from: Taylor on February 28, 2020, 11:22:53 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 28, 2020, 11:08:00 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 28, 2020, 10:57:05 AM
The idea or one idea about enforcing isolation on an infected area is to buy time for unaffected areas and allow for prepartions. What is the rationale for calling off the rugby international because some thousands of Italians would be attending? yet the Italians will be travelling to Ireland in their thousands and presumably in close social contact with Irish people over a period of 48 hours or so. Either impose a travel ban or allow the mingling. The stunt to ban the game  just smacks of phony finger in the dyke grandstanding.

Walking past a person in a shop is not the same as sitting beside them for 2 hours.
Switzerland has banned events of >1000 people from now. There is a balance in these things.

Like sitting beside a person in an airplane for over two hours?  :o

That too, hence the tracing of the people sitting beside the woman from Belfast. It is harder to trace who was sitting beside you at a game.

But if you go to the trouble of cancelling a game because of the risk of sitting beside someone who may be infected how does it make sense to allow that person to sit on a plane in an enclosed space with 100's of others?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on February 28, 2020, 11:46:55 AM
Quote from: Taylor on February 28, 2020, 11:41:44 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 28, 2020, 11:36:36 AM
Quote from: Taylor on February 28, 2020, 11:22:53 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 28, 2020, 11:08:00 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 28, 2020, 10:57:05 AM
The idea or one idea about enforcing isolation on an infected area is to buy time for unaffected areas and allow for prepartions. What is the rationale for calling off the rugby international because some thousands of Italians would be attending? yet the Italians will be travelling to Ireland in their thousands and presumably in close social contact with Irish people over a period of 48 hours or so. Either impose a travel ban or allow the mingling. The stunt to ban the game  just smacks of phony finger in the dyke grandstanding.

Walking past a person in a shop is not the same as sitting beside them for 2 hours.
Switzerland has banned events of >1000 people from now. There is a balance in these things.

Like sitting beside a person in an airplane for over two hours?  :o

That too, hence the tracing of the people sitting beside the woman from Belfast. It is harder to trace who was sitting beside you at a game.

But if you go to the trouble of cancelling a game because of the risk of sitting beside someone who may be infected how does it make sense to allow that person to sit on a plane in an enclosed space with 100's of others?

You can argue that both flights and sporting events carry a similar level of risk but one is necessary while the other other isn't:

Cancelling a sporting event - easy and negligible disruption
Cancelling all flights to/from a country - difficult and high disruption



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on February 28, 2020, 11:47:25 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 28, 2020, 11:08:00 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 28, 2020, 10:57:05 AM
The idea or one idea about enforcing isolation on an infected area is to buy time for unaffected areas and allow for prepartions. What is the rationale for calling off the rugby international because some thousands of Italians would be attending? yet the Italians will be travelling to Ireland in their thousands and presumably in close social contact with Irish people over a period of 48 hours or so. Either impose a travel ban or allow the mingling. The stunt to ban the game  just smacks of phony finger in the dyke grandstanding.

Walking past a person in a shop is not the same as sitting beside them for 2 hours.
Switzerland has banned events of >1000 people from now. There is a balance in these things.
Italians will be mingling in airplanes, Dublin airport, taxis, buses, Dart, Luas, pubs, restaurants, hotels, other social events. Not the same exposure as a match, but overall similar.
Exposure is just one factor, health workers aside - susceptibility is a more important factor for most people, it determines how an exposure is experienced.  The vast majority of people who experience exposure, experience nothing or just mild symptoms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cavan19 on February 28, 2020, 12:04:26 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 28, 2020, 11:47:25 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 28, 2020, 11:08:00 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 28, 2020, 10:57:05 AM
The idea or one idea about enforcing isolation on an infected area is to buy time for unaffected areas and allow for prepartions. What is the rationale for calling off the rugby international because some thousands of Italians would be attending? yet the Italians will be travelling to Ireland in their thousands and presumably in close social contact with Irish people over a period of 48 hours or so. Either impose a travel ban or allow the mingling. The stunt to ban the game  just smacks of phony finger in the dyke grandstanding.

Walking past a person in a shop is not the same as sitting beside them for 2 hours.
Switzerland has banned events of >1000 people from now. There is a balance in these things.
Italians will be mingling in airplanes, Dublin airport, taxis, buses, Dart, Luas, pubs, restaurants, hotels, other social events. Not the same exposure as a match, but overall similar.
Exposure is just one factor, health workers aside - susceptibility is a more important factor for most people, it determines how an exposure is experienced.  The vast majority of people who experience exposure, experience nothing or just mild symptoms.

It would be a whole lot better if they didn't come.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 28, 2020, 12:16:16 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 28, 2020, 11:47:25 AM
Exposure is just one factor, health workers aside - susceptibility is a more important factor for most people, it determines how an exposure is experienced.  The vast majority of people who experience exposure, experience nothing or just mild symptoms.

You make a lot of this point. But it isn't the experience of those people that is important, it is the experience of those they give the dose to.

Quote from: Cavan19 on February 28, 2020, 12:04:26 PM
It would be a whole lot better if they didn't come.

Many will not come.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on February 28, 2020, 12:53:00 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on February 28, 2020, 12:26:17 PM
It's funny how so many people have become both public health and virologist experts nearly overnight - a bit like how so many people in Britain to this day have spent the last few years 'splaining how frictionless international border technologies work.

Like in a lot of things, common sense is required in a lot of situations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 28, 2020, 01:23:39 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on February 28, 2020, 12:53:00 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on February 28, 2020, 12:26:17 PM
It's funny how so many people have become both public health and virologist experts nearly overnight - a bit like how so many people in Britain to this day have spent the last few years 'splaining how frictionless international border technologies work.

Like in a lot of things, common sense is required in a lot of situations.

The principles of hand washing have been known for 100 years.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on February 28, 2020, 01:33:04 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 28, 2020, 11:41:28 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 27, 2020, 10:21:02 PM
Well, the evidence points to that there is immunity.There are degrees of immunity and that is blatantly evident in that the vast majority of those who get exposed to this virus either can adapt with no symptoms or experience mild symptoms. That is what defines a good immune reaction.
And the evidence as recorded, is that immune response learned from experiencing one flu  can be used in part  against another flu strain, family diffferences notwithstanding.

This is not a flu virus!!! The only relationship it has to the flu virus is that it causes respiratory problems. It's like saying sharks and wolves are the same because they're both vertebrates and they both bite. From a technical point of view, the flu viruses are classified as follows (taken from wiki):

Realm:  Riboviria 
Phylum:  Negarnaviricota 
Class:  Insthoviricetes 
Order:  Articulavirales 
Family:  Orthomyxoviridae 

While the corona virus is:

Realm:  Riboviria 
Phylum:  incertae sedis 
Order:  Nidovirales 
Family:  Coronaviridae 

The fact that most people get mild symptoms cannot be attributed to an underlying immunity gained from previous flu viruses (unless there is actual studies proving this) - as shown by the fact that very young children (who would have low underlying immunity) are apparently not susceptible to this virus.

Virology is complicated stuff!
There is nothing complicated about observing that the symptoms experienced are similar, whether it is a flu virus or this covid-19

John Hopkins medicine  -  flu v covid -19  - although caused by different virus

Methods of transmission are similar.
Both infectious respiratory illnesses
Both cause fever, cough, body aches, fatigue; sometimes vomiting and diarrhea.
Can be mild or severe, even fatal in rare cases.
Can result in pneumonia.

similarities to the damage caused by SARS and MERS.-  Lanclet

When the body has learned a natural immune response to the symptoms of one virus, that learned immune response is also effective in helping the body to adapt to   to the similar symptoms of a different virus. This has also been the subject of  research on learned immune responses to various flu viruses.
Exposure to a virus is only one factor, the ultimate experience is the body's ability to adapt to that exposure via the learned immune response.
That is one explanation  why the vast majority of people exposed to this virus experience nothing or just mild symptoms,  and in the main it is the people who are most susceptible (smokers and sick people) who experience  the deep pathology /even death,  again very similar to the patterns of exposure to flu virus.

QuoteThe fact that most people get mild symptoms cannot be attributed to an underlying immunity gained from previous flu viruses (unless there is actual studies proving this) - as shown by the fact that very young children (who would have low underlying immunity) are apparently not susceptible to this virus.
Your facts are not yet real facts,  not even Unicef know the why of it all.
According to Unicef https://www.unicef.org/bulgaria/en/stories/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-what-parents-should-know (https://www.unicef.org/bulgaria/en/stories/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-what-parents-should-know)
"This is a new virus and we do not know enough yet about how it affects children or pregnant women. We know it is possible for people of any age to be infected with the virus, but so far there have been relatively few cases of COVID-19 reported among children. The virus is fatal in rare cases, so far mainly among older people with pre-existing medical conditions."
https://www.unicef.org/bulgaria/en/stories/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-what-parents-should-know (https://www.unicef.org/bulgaria/en/stories/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-what-parents-should-know)
Recorded cases  in China in children are approx 1% of total.





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on February 28, 2020, 01:34:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 28, 2020, 01:23:39 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on February 28, 2020, 12:53:00 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on February 28, 2020, 12:26:17 PM
It's funny how so many people have become both public health and virologist experts nearly overnight - a bit like how so many people in Britain to this day have spent the last few years 'splaining how frictionless international border technologies work.

Like in a lot of things, common sense is required in a lot of situations.

The principles of hand washing have been known for 100 years.

And to this day people still don't know how to wash their hands properly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: weareros on February 28, 2020, 01:34:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 28, 2020, 01:23:39 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on February 28, 2020, 12:53:00 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on February 28, 2020, 12:26:17 PM
It's funny how so many people have become both public health and virologist experts nearly overnight - a bit like how so many people in Britain to this day have spent the last few years 'splaining how frictionless international border technologies work.

Like in a lot of things, common sense is required in a lot of situations.

The principles of hand washing have been known for 100 years.

They've been known, but there's a lot of auld lads in country pubs that still don't wash their hands. If some of these old dogs finally learn a new trick, then the virus will have done some good.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on February 28, 2020, 02:07:50 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 28, 2020, 01:33:04 PM
There is nothing complicated about observing that the symptoms experienced are similar, whether it is a flu virus or this covid-19

John Hopkins medicine  -  flu v covid -19  - although caused by different virus

Methods of transmission are similar.
Both infectious respiratory illnesses
Both cause fever, cough, body aches, fatigue; sometimes vomiting and diarrhea.
Can be mild or severe, even fatal in rare cases.
Can result in pneumonia.

similarities to the damage caused by SARS and MERS.-  Lanclet

When the body has learned a natural immune response to the symptoms of one virus, that learned immune response is also effective in helping the body to adapt to   to the similar symptoms of a different virus. This has also been the subject of  research on learned immune responses to various flu viruses.
Exposure to a virus is only one factor, the ultimate experience is the body's ability to adapt to that exposure via the learned immune response.
That is one explanation  why the vast majority of people exposed to this virus experience nothing or just mild symptoms,  and in the main it is the people who are most susceptible (smokers and sick people) who experience  the deep pathology /even death,  again very similar to the patterns of exposure to flu virus.


On the this point, the bodys immune system doesn't respond to symptoms, if it did you'd eventually become immune to the common cold. The body responds to the presense of a virus (and its proteins) in your body. (Viral) Meningitis symptoms are also flu-like, but there is no underlying immune response to that virus (as far as I'm aware?).

Quote

QuoteThe fact that most people get mild symptoms cannot be attributed to an underlying immunity gained from previous flu viruses (unless there is actual studies proving this) - as shown by the fact that very young children (who would have low underlying immunity) are apparently not susceptible to this virus.
Your facts are not yet real facts,  not even Unicef know the why of it all.
According to Unicef https://www.unicef.org/bulgaria/en/stories/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-what-parents-should-know (https://www.unicef.org/bulgaria/en/stories/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-what-parents-should-know)
"This is a new virus and we do not know enough yet about how it affects children or pregnant women. We know it is possible for people of any age to be infected with the virus, but so far there have been relatively few cases of COVID-19 reported among children. The virus is fatal in rare cases, so far mainly among older people with pre-existing medical conditions."
https://www.unicef.org/bulgaria/en/stories/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-what-parents-should-know (https://www.unicef.org/bulgaria/en/stories/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-what-parents-should-know)
Recorded cases  in China in children are approx 1% of total.

Apologies, poor choice of words on my part, I didn't mean that children don't get covid-19, just that they appear to get it less than you would expect (as per your link) - so my point was that that fact doesn't that fit in with your theory of the population having a learned response to this virus.

No point in continuing with this indefinitely but in short, the theory that the body's immune response to one type of virus is effective against a completely different virus is at best completely unproven IMO
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on February 28, 2020, 02:34:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 28, 2020, 12:16:16 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 28, 2020, 11:47:25 AM
Exposure is just one factor, health workers aside - susceptibility is a more important factor for most people, it determines how an exposure is experienced.  The vast majority of people who experience exposure, experience nothing or just mild symptoms.

You make a lot of this point. But it isn't the experience of those people that is important, it is the experience of those they give the dose to.
Eh?  That sounds like gobbeldygook, are you saying that it's not important how this virus is experienced by the vast majority of people so far, but by those they give it to?
If that's so, do you think that those newly exposed to this virus will have a different experience than that already experienced elsewhere?

And just how can it be avoided to keep Italians out of Ireland, ban all flights altogether? How many is it, 6 or 10 flights daily, or more?
What about when inevitably it is France, Germany, Britain,  Northern ireland, ban all flights/border crossings to and from those countries?


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 28, 2020, 03:17:21 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 28, 2020, 02:34:48 PM
Eh?  That sounds like gobbledygook, are you saying that it's not important how this virus is experienced by the vast majority of people so far, but by those they give it to?
If that's so, do you think that those newly exposed to this virus will have a different experience than that already experienced elsewhere?;

It most certainly is not gobbledygook. A person with an illness or compromised immune system would not risk going to this game at the present time. But you have some guy with your attitude who goes to the game then gives the pox to his parents or his girlfriend is a nurse or works in an old people's home.

QuoteAnd just how can it be avoided to keep Italians out of Ireland, ban all flights altogether? How many is it, 6 or 10 flights daily, or more?
What about when inevitably it is France, Germany, Britain,  Northern ireland, ban all flights/border crossings to and from those countries?

It probably can't be avoided by any reasonable measure. The object of the measures is to keep things in in control, a collapse of the health service would be a catastrophe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aristo 60 on February 28, 2020, 04:10:40 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on January 24, 2020, 10:58:39 AM
What will it do to sales of Corona?

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/coronavirus-corona-beer-loss-money-outbreak-pandemic-symptoms-a9364371.html

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Lar Naparka on February 28, 2020, 09:26:36 PM
The WHO has just reported that a confirmed case of the virus in a dog has been found n Hong Kong. The dog tested "weakly positive" after showing flu-like symptoms. Apparently, the mutt's owner has also contacted the virus. This is a potentially serious development as it makes the job on containing the spread of covid-19 even harder than it is now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 28, 2020, 09:57:07 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on February 28, 2020, 09:26:36 PM
The WHO has just reported that a confirmed case of the virus in a dog has been found n Hong Kong. The dog tested "weakly positive" after showing flu-like symptoms. Apparently, the mutt's owner has also contacted the virus. This is a potentially serious development as it makes the job on containing the spread of covid-19 even harder than it is now.

Got worse news than that...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/27/japanese-woman-confirmed-as-coronavirus-case-for-2nd-time-weeks-after-initial-recovery.html

QuoteA woman working as a tour-bus guide in Japan tested positive for the coronavirus for a second time, Osaka's prefectural government said on Wednesday, the first person in the country to do so amid growing concerns about the spread of the infection.

QuotePossible that virus may be "bi-phasic like anthrax," said Philip Tierno Jr., Professor of Microbiology and Pathology at NYU School of Medicine.

QuoteThough a first in Japan, cases of second positive tests have been reported in China, where the disease originated late last year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 09:55:31 AM
This thing sounds as bad as Brexit
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 29, 2020, 02:00:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 09:55:31 AM
This thing sounds as bad as Brexit

This will be over in a year, good or bad, Brexit will run and run.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 03:03:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 29, 2020, 02:00:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 09:55:31 AM
This thing sounds as bad as Brexit

This will be over in a year, good or bad, Brexit will run and run.

By the amount of media stuff and 60% of the world getting it, we're doomed!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 29, 2020, 04:30:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 03:03:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 29, 2020, 02:00:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 09:55:31 AM
This thing sounds as bad as Brexit

This will be over in a year, good or bad, Brexit will run and run.

By the amount of media stuff and 60% of the world getting it, we're doomed!

Doom is indeed possible. The probability is about that of Antrim winning an All Ireland, possible, but unlikely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 29, 2020, 04:48:58 PM
Hurling or football ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 29, 2020, 04:50:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 29, 2020, 04:48:58 PM
Hurling or football ;D

There used to be a difference, but nowadays it is the comparison of two infinitesimally small numbers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 05:01:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 29, 2020, 04:50:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 29, 2020, 04:48:58 PM
Hurling or football ;D

There used to be a difference, but nowadays it is the comparison of two infinitesimally small numbers.

Jesus you'd think Armagh was a hot bed of GAA activity!  Bogballers
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on February 29, 2020, 06:59:15 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 28, 2020, 12:04:26 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 28, 2020, 11:47:25 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 28, 2020, 11:08:00 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 28, 2020, 10:57:05 AM
The idea or one idea about enforcing isolation on an infected area is to buy time for unaffected areas and allow for prepartions. What is the rationale for calling off the rugby international because some thousands of Italians would be attending? yet the Italians will be travelling to Ireland in their thousands and presumably in close social contact with Irish people over a period of 48 hours or so. Either impose a travel ban or allow the mingling. The stunt to ban the game  just smacks of phony finger in the dyke grandstanding.

Walking past a person in a shop is not the same as sitting beside them for 2 hours.
Switzerland has banned events of >1000 people from now. There is a balance in these things.
Italians will be mingling in airplanes, Dublin airport, taxis, buses, Dart, Luas, pubs, restaurants, hotels, other social events. Not the same exposure as a match, but overall similar.
Exposure is just one factor, health workers aside - susceptibility is a more important factor for most people, it determines how an exposure is experienced.  The vast majority of people who experience exposure, experience nothing or just mild symptoms.

It would be a whole lot better if they didn't come.

It's all about the money, flights should be banned to Northern Italy but no chance as folk will need compensating.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 29, 2020, 07:43:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 05:01:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 29, 2020, 04:50:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 29, 2020, 04:48:58 PM
Hurling or football ;D

There used to be a difference, but nowadays it is the comparison of two infinitesimally small numbers.

Jesus you'd think Armagh was a hot bed of GAA activity!  Bogballers
Armagh will win the same number of All Ireland's as Antrim over the next 10 years.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 29, 2020, 07:50:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 29, 2020, 07:43:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 05:01:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 29, 2020, 04:50:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 29, 2020, 04:48:58 PM
Hurling or football ;D

There used to be a difference, but nowadays it is the comparison of two infinitesimally small numbers.

Jesus you'd think Armagh was a hot bed of GAA activity!  Bogballers
Armagh will win the same number of All Ireland's as Antrim over the next 10 years.

Are you including Scór in that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 08:06:34 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 29, 2020, 07:43:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 05:01:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 29, 2020, 04:50:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 29, 2020, 04:48:58 PM
Hurling or football ;D

There used to be a difference, but nowadays it is the comparison of two infinitesimally small numbers.

Jesus you'd think Armagh was a hot bed of GAA activity!  Bogballers
Armagh will win the same number of All Ireland's as Antrim over the next 10 years.

Not true, reading their posts it's only a matter of time, 12 years for them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on February 29, 2020, 09:02:05 PM
First case confirmed in the Republic a while ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 29, 2020, 09:33:28 PM
6 people killed in car crashes in the 26 Cos. In the last 24 hours.
Do we stop driving?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 09:42:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 29, 2020, 09:33:28 PM
6 people killed in car crashes in the 26 Cos. In the last 24 hours.
Do we stop driving?

Yes, close the petrol stations and ban driving! Oh wait let's apply common sense
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 29, 2020, 09:59:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 29, 2020, 09:42:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 29, 2020, 09:33:28 PM
6 people killed in car crashes in the 26 Cos. In the last 24 hours.
Do we stop driving?

Yes, close the petrol stations and ban driving! Oh wait let's apply common sense

Driving is a good example. Fatality rates here are about 1% of the worst places in the world per car. There is  a whole range of things to do this, better roads, better cars, driving testing, car testing, police enforcement and people taking safety seriously. There needs to be a whole range of things for the pox, some people will still die but not anywhere near as many as might otherwise die.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on February 29, 2020, 10:29:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 29, 2020, 09:33:28 PM
6 people killed in car crashes in the 26 Cos. In the last 24 hours.
Do we stop driving?

Tosser, anyone at the scene not involved wont die of the same car crash. No one knows how this will evolve the flipancy of those it hasn't affected is astonishing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 29, 2020, 10:39:13 PM
Nobody has died of the virus in Ireland.
6 on the roads.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on February 29, 2020, 10:59:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 29, 2020, 10:39:13 PM
Nobody has died of the virus in Ireland.
6 on the roads.

Apologies meant complete tosser, you shine at it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 29, 2020, 11:57:07 PM
Quote from: AFM on February 29, 2020, 10:59:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 29, 2020, 10:39:13 PM
Nobody has died of the virus in Ireland.
6 on the roads.

Apologies meant complete tosser, you shine at it.
Where did this eejit crawl from?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 01, 2020, 12:43:53 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 29, 2020, 11:57:07 PM
Quote from: AFM on February 29, 2020, 10:59:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 29, 2020, 10:39:13 PM
Nobody has died of the virus in Ireland.
6 on the roads.

Apologies meant complete tosser, you shine at it.
Where did this eejit crawl from?

He's not the biggest eejit in this thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on March 01, 2020, 08:59:37 AM
Shouldn't the HSE/government be telling us who and where the corona virus patient is? A man in the east of the country is all we know. How can people tell if they might have been in contact with him or been places he has been?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on March 01, 2020, 11:04:28 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on March 01, 2020, 08:59:37 AM
Shouldn't the HSE/government be telling us who and where the corona virus patient is? A man in the east of the country is all we know. How can people tell if they might have been in contact with him or been places he has been?

Heard there is more than one in the East. Probably trying to avoid hysteria.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 01, 2020, 12:37:42 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-51688902 (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-51688902)

Think this is a sensible call, hopefully Armagh schools follow.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 01, 2020, 01:34:35 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on March 01, 2020, 08:59:37 AM
Shouldn't the HSE/government be telling us who and where the corona virus patient is? A man in the east of the country is all we know. How can people tell if they might have been in contact with him or been places he has been?

Because most people passing him on the street are not at risk. If you were on a plane from Milan than you should be aware of the risk and sitting 8 rows away from this guy doesn't materially change that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 01, 2020, 01:55:58 PM
Will it now follow that'lk there'll be a worldwide recession?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 01, 2020, 04:28:58 PM
Well, apparently there is now an outbreak in an elderly care home in the US.

Unfortunately, I think we will soon see just how bad this could potentially be if folks continue to be flippant about it spreading  [and govts have been far too slow to act so far].
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 01, 2020, 05:40:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 01, 2020, 04:28:58 PM
Well, apparently there is now an outbreak in an elderly care home in the US.

Unfortunately, I think we will soon see just how bad this could potentially be if folks continue to be flippant about it spreading  [and govts have been far too slow to act so far].

It's all driven by the economic consequences, no government gives a flying one how many old or infirm are wiped out as long as their economy is ok. The irony being had borders been closed earlier this could have prevented the spread, airlines aren't cancelling or giving refunds as governments are saying it's safe to travel.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 01, 2020, 07:04:23 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 01, 2020, 05:40:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 01, 2020, 04:28:58 PM
Well, apparently there is now an outbreak in an elderly care home in the US.

Unfortunately, I think we will soon see just how bad this could potentially be if folks continue to be flippant about it spreading  [and govts have been far too slow to act so far].

It's all driven by the economic consequences, no government gives a flying one how many old or infirm are wiped out as long as their economy is ok. The irony being had borders been closed earlier this could have prevented the spread, airlines aren't cancelling or giving refunds as governments are saying it's safe to travel.

Yup I agree. Borders weren't closed because they want it spread. They want a few hundred thousand or millions of us gone, especially those they consider to be a burden to society.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on March 01, 2020, 07:12:57 PM
Scoil catriona mobhi Road Glaasnevin being shut for the next 2 weeks. The corona virus case was a pupil there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2020, 07:17:28 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 01, 2020, 07:04:23 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 01, 2020, 05:40:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 01, 2020, 04:28:58 PM
Well, apparently there is now an outbreak in an elderly care home in the US.

Unfortunately, I think we will soon see just how bad this could potentially be if folks continue to be flippant about it spreading  [and govts have been far too slow to act so far].

It's all driven by the economic consequences, no government gives a flying one how many old or infirm are wiped out as long as their economy is ok. The irony being had borders been closed earlier this could have prevented the spread, airlines aren't cancelling or giving refunds as governments are saying it's safe to travel.

Yup I agree. Borders weren't closed because they want it spread. They want a few hundred thousand or millions of us gone, especially those they consider to be a burden to society.

So it's preventable? Sure 60% of the world's population are going to get it anyways, hopefully a vaccine will come and like swine flu and bird flu it will be sorted.

The media has went into overdrive too which makes things a lot worse for panic
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 01, 2020, 07:30:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2020, 07:17:28 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 01, 2020, 07:04:23 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 01, 2020, 05:40:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 01, 2020, 04:28:58 PM
Well, apparently there is now an outbreak in an elderly care home in the US.

Unfortunately, I think we will soon see just how bad this could potentially be if folks continue to be flippant about it spreading  [and govts have been far too slow to act so far].

It's all driven by the economic consequences, no government gives a flying one how many old or infirm are wiped out as long as their economy is ok. The irony being had borders been closed earlier this could have prevented the spread, airlines aren't cancelling or giving refunds as governments are saying it's safe to travel.

Yup I agree. Borders weren't closed because they want it spread. They want a few hundred thousand or millions of us gone, especially those they consider to be a burden to society.

So it's preventable? Sure 60% of the world's population are going to get it anyways, hopefully a vaccine will come and like swine flu and bird flu it will be sorted.

The media has went into overdrive too which makes things a lot worse for panic

Looks like you have bought into the hysteria.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2020, 08:51:53 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 01, 2020, 07:30:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2020, 07:17:28 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 01, 2020, 07:04:23 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 01, 2020, 05:40:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 01, 2020, 04:28:58 PM
Well, apparently there is now an outbreak in an elderly care home in the US.

Unfortunately, I think we will soon see just how bad this could potentially be if folks continue to be flippant about it spreading  [and govts have been far too slow to act so far].

It's all driven by the economic consequences, no government gives a flying one how many old or infirm are wiped out as long as their economy is ok. The irony being had borders been closed earlier this could have prevented the spread, airlines aren't cancelling or giving refunds as governments are saying it's safe to travel.

Yup I agree. Borders weren't closed because they want it spread. They want a few hundred thousand or millions of us gone, especially those they consider to be a burden to society.

So it's preventable? Sure 60% of the world's population are going to get it anyways, hopefully a vaccine will come and like swine flu and bird flu it will be sorted.

The media has went into overdrive too which makes things a lot worse for panic

Looks like you have bought into the hysteria.

Yeah, I'm so nervous about the whole thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 01, 2020, 10:48:44 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 01, 2020, 07:04:23 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 01, 2020, 05:40:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 01, 2020, 04:28:58 PM
Well, apparently there is now an outbreak in an elderly care home in the US.

Unfortunately, I think we will soon see just how bad this could potentially be if folks continue to be flippant about it spreading  [and govts have been far too slow to act so far].

It's all driven by the economic consequences, no government gives a flying one how many old or infirm are wiped out as long as their economy is ok. The irony being had borders been closed earlier this could have prevented the spread, airlines aren't cancelling or giving refunds as governments are saying it's safe to travel.

Yup I agree. Borders weren't closed because they want it spread. They want a few hundred thousand or millions of us gone, especially those they consider to be a burden to society.

Well Mary-Lou did say on TV that their pension proposals were affordable as the demographics would sort themselves out. SF must have sussed out this before the rest of us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 01, 2020, 11:01:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 01, 2020, 10:48:44 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 01, 2020, 07:04:23 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 01, 2020, 05:40:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 01, 2020, 04:28:58 PM
Well, apparently there is now an outbreak in an elderly care home in the US.

Unfortunately, I think we will soon see just how bad this could potentially be if folks continue to be flippant about it spreading  [and govts have been far too slow to act so far].

It's all driven by the economic consequences, no government gives a flying one how many old or infirm are wiped out as long as their economy is ok. The irony being had borders been closed earlier this could have prevented the spread, airlines aren't cancelling or giving refunds as governments are saying it's safe to travel.

Yup I agree. Borders weren't closed because they want it spread. They want a few hundred thousand or millions of us gone, especially those they consider to be a burden to society.

Well Mary-Lou did say on TV that their pension proposals were affordable as the demographics would sort themselves out. SF must have sussed out this before the rest of us.

I heard a scientist on the radio the other morning saying they knew about the CV a good few weeks ago before it hit the mainstram news.

You'd have thought countries would have been more pro-active at that stage instead of waiting for it to become more problematic.

Time was/is of the essence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 01, 2020, 11:17:03 PM
There was never a  chance this could be stopped, you can carry for 14 days with with a sniffle yet you could pass it to someone else who reacts very badly to it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 02, 2020, 12:26:40 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 01, 2020, 11:17:03 PM
There was never a  chance this could be stopped, you can carry for 14 days with with a sniffle yet you could pass it to someone else who reacts very badly to it.

Yet, case numbers in Singapore and Hong Kong have remained relatively few, although they have had cases for over 6 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2020, 09:05:02 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 01, 2020, 11:17:03 PM
There was never a  chance this could be stopped, you can carry for 14 days with with a sniffle yet you could pass it to someone else who reacts very badly to it.

Easily.

- Everyone close the borders with China in December when it first came out.
- Anyone looking repatriated out of China is done so via strict quarantine zone under the repatriating governments control (i.e. military base).

What will likely happen is that we'll get to a point where extreme measures will be brought in when it becomes palatable to the politicians - but by then it will be far too late, the horse will have long since bolted, had a herd of foals and died of old age.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2020, 09:05:02 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 01, 2020, 11:17:03 PM
There was never a  chance this could be stopped, you can carry for 14 days with with a sniffle yet you could pass it to someone else who reacts very badly to it.

Easily.

- Everyone close the borders with China in December when it first came out.
- Anyone looking repatriated out of China is done so via strict quarantine zone under the repatriating governments control (i.e. military base).

What will likely happen is that we'll get to a point where extreme measures will be brought in when it becomes palatable to the politicians - but by then it will be far too late, the horse will have long since bolted, had a herd of foals and died of old age.

This can't be a serious suggestion.

It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 02, 2020, 10:29:54 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2020, 09:05:02 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 01, 2020, 11:17:03 PM
There was never a  chance this could be stopped, you can carry for 14 days with with a sniffle yet you could pass it to someone else who reacts very badly to it.

Easily.

- Everyone close the borders with China in December when it first came out.
- Anyone looking repatriated out of China is done so via strict quarantine zone under the repatriating governments control (i.e. military base).

What will likely happen is that we'll get to a point where extreme measures will be brought in when it becomes palatable to the politicians - but by then it will be far too late, the horse will have long since bolted, had a herd of foals and died of old age.

This can't be a serious suggestion.

It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

No it's not, more flippancy!  The two illnesses are caused by DIFFERENT viruses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:40:41 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 10:29:54 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2020, 09:05:02 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 01, 2020, 11:17:03 PM
There was never a  chance this could be stopped, you can carry for 14 days with with a sniffle yet you could pass it to someone else who reacts very badly to it.

Easily.

- Everyone close the borders with China in December when it first came out.
- Anyone looking repatriated out of China is done so via strict quarantine zone under the repatriating governments control (i.e. military base).

What will likely happen is that we'll get to a point where extreme measures will be brought in when it becomes palatable to the politicians - but by then it will be far too late, the horse will have long since bolted, had a herd of foals and died of old age.

This can't be a serious suggestion.

It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

No it's not, more flippancy!  The two illnesses are caused by DIFFERENT viruses.

Tomato / Tomato....Closing borders. Jesus wept.

Go to Dublin Airport on Friday and Saturday sure with signs saying down with this sort of thing as there is going to be thousands coming for the cancelled game.

The Chinese will do as they please. Coming out with radical border closings etc....Have you people any idea how big China is? It's not Leitrim.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rrhf on March 02, 2020, 10:47:41 AM
We could close the borders with Leitrim anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 02, 2020, 10:52:44 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 10:29:54 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2020, 09:05:02 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 01, 2020, 11:17:03 PM
There was never a  chance this could be stopped, you can carry for 14 days with with a sniffle yet you could pass it to someone else who reacts very badly to it.

Easily.

- Everyone close the borders with China in December when it first came out.
- Anyone looking repatriated out of China is done so via strict quarantine zone under the repatriating governments control (i.e. military base).

What will likely happen is that we'll get to a point where extreme measures will be brought in when it becomes palatable to the politicians - but by then it will be far too late, the horse will have long since bolted, had a herd of foals and died of old age.

This can't be a serious suggestion.

It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

No it's not, more flippancy!  The two illnesses are caused by DIFFERENT viruses.

Agreed. It is not something to be flippant about.
And leprosy is hardly a good example as it is one of the least contagious diseases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 02, 2020, 10:55:16 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:40:41 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 10:29:54 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2020, 09:05:02 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 01, 2020, 11:17:03 PM
There was never a  chance this could be stopped, you can carry for 14 days with with a sniffle yet you could pass it to someone else who reacts very badly to it.

Easily.

- Everyone close the borders with China in December when it first came out.
- Anyone looking repatriated out of China is done so via strict quarantine zone under the repatriating governments control (i.e. military base).

What will likely happen is that we'll get to a point where extreme measures will be brought in when it becomes palatable to the politicians - but by then it will be far too late, the horse will have long since bolted, had a herd of foals and died of old age.

This can't be a serious suggestion.

It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

No it's not, more flippancy!  The two illnesses are caused by DIFFERENT viruses.

Tomato / Tomato....Closing borders. Jesus wept.

Go to Dublin Airport on Friday and Saturday sure with signs saying down with this sort of thing as there is going to be thousands coming for the cancelled game.

The Chinese will do as they please. Coming out with radical border closings etc....Have you people any idea how big China is? It's not Leitrim.

They are the same thing, can you not grasp they are two different viruses?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 11:08:43 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 10:55:16 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:40:41 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 10:29:54 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2020, 09:05:02 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 01, 2020, 11:17:03 PM
There was never a  chance this could be stopped, you can carry for 14 days with with a sniffle yet you could pass it to someone else who reacts very badly to it.

Easily.

- Everyone close the borders with China in December when it first came out.
- Anyone looking repatriated out of China is done so via strict quarantine zone under the repatriating governments control (i.e. military base).

What will likely happen is that we'll get to a point where extreme measures will be brought in when it becomes palatable to the politicians - but by then it will be far too late, the horse will have long since bolted, had a herd of foals and died of old age.

This can't be a serious suggestion.

It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

No it's not, more flippancy!  The two illnesses are caused by DIFFERENT viruses.

Tomato / Tomato....Closing borders. Jesus wept.

Go to Dublin Airport on Friday and Saturday sure with signs saying down with this sort of thing as there is going to be thousands coming for the cancelled game.

The Chinese will do as they please. Coming out with radical border closings etc....Have you people any idea how big China is? It's not Leitrim.

They are the same thing, can you not grasp they are two different viruses?

The Northern Ireland Border is 310 miles or so. For years it's been relatively uncontrollable. As we've seen to crushing effect. We could never stop people slipping over and back.

China borders about 15 countries. It has about 1.5 billion people in its borders.

The damage is done, scaremongering is doing no good. Neither is these mad notions of closing borders. It's going to have to run it's course and the wold needs to react for an actual serious event going forward. All this is, is a warning shot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 02, 2020, 11:16:46 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 11:08:43 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 10:55:16 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:40:41 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 10:29:54 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2020, 09:05:02 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 01, 2020, 11:17:03 PM
There was never a  chance this could be stopped, you can carry for 14 days with with a sniffle yet you could pass it to someone else who reacts very badly to it.

Easily.

- Everyone close the borders with China in December when it first came out.
- Anyone looking repatriated out of China is done so via strict quarantine zone under the repatriating governments control (i.e. military base).

What will likely happen is that we'll get to a point where extreme measures will be brought in when it becomes palatable to the politicians - but by then it will be far too late, the horse will have long since bolted, had a herd of foals and died of old age.

This can't be a serious suggestion.

It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

No it's not, more flippancy!  The two illnesses are caused by DIFFERENT viruses.

Tomato / Tomato....Closing borders. Jesus wept.

Go to Dublin Airport on Friday and Saturday sure with signs saying down with this sort of thing as there is going to be thousands coming for the cancelled game.

The Chinese will do as they please. Coming out with radical border closings etc....Have you people any idea how big China is? It's not Leitrim.

They are the same thing, can you not grasp they are two different viruses?

The Northern Ireland Border is 310 miles or so. For years it's been relatively uncontrollable. As we've seen to crushing effect. We could never stop people slipping over and back.

China borders about 15 countries. It has about 1.5 billion people in its borders.

The damage is done, scaremongering is doing no good. Neither is these mad notions of closing borders. It's going to have to run it's course and the wold needs to react for an actual serious event going forward. All this is, is a warning shot.

Was that not Radio GAAGAA's point?

With regards the scaremongering. I'd rather over act to the threat and be thankfully it wasn't as bad as anticipated than do nothing and be too late to plan if things do go wrong. You don't get a second chance to try and reduce the impact.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 02, 2020, 11:29:52 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 11:08:43 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 10:55:16 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:40:41 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 10:29:54 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2020, 09:05:02 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 01, 2020, 11:17:03 PM
There was never a  chance this could be stopped, you can carry for 14 days with with a sniffle yet you could pass it to someone else who reacts very badly to it.

Easily.

- Everyone close the borders with China in December when it first came out.
- Anyone looking repatriated out of China is done so via strict quarantine zone under the repatriating governments control (i.e. military base).

What will likely happen is that we'll get to a point where extreme measures will be brought in when it becomes palatable to the politicians - but by then it will be far too late, the horse will have long since bolted, had a herd of foals and died of old age.

This can't be a serious suggestion.

It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

No it's not, more flippancy!  The two illnesses are caused by DIFFERENT viruses.

Tomato / Tomato....Closing borders. Jesus wept.

Go to Dublin Airport on Friday and Saturday sure with signs saying down with this sort of thing as there is going to be thousands coming for the cancelled game.

The Chinese will do as they please. Coming out with radical border closings etc....Have you people any idea how big China is? It's not Leitrim.

They are the same thing, can you not grasp they are two different viruses?

The Northern Ireland Border is 310 miles or so. For years it's been relatively uncontrollable. As we've seen to crushing effect. We could never stop people slipping over and back.

China borders about 15 countries. It has about 1.5 billion people in its borders.

The damage is done, scaremongering is doing no good. Neither is these mad notions of closing borders. It's going to have to run it's course and the wold needs to react for an actual serious event going forward. All this is, is a warning shot.

The point I was pulling you up on was it's the flu, it is not, the rest of the horseshite you posted I didn't read.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 12:20:56 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 11:29:52 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 11:08:43 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 10:55:16 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:40:41 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 10:29:54 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2020, 09:05:02 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 01, 2020, 11:17:03 PM
There was never a  chance this could be stopped, you can carry for 14 days with with a sniffle yet you could pass it to someone else who reacts very badly to it.

Easily.

- Everyone close the borders with China in December when it first came out.
- Anyone looking repatriated out of China is done so via strict quarantine zone under the repatriating governments control (i.e. military base).

What will likely happen is that we'll get to a point where extreme measures will be brought in when it becomes palatable to the politicians - but by then it will be far too late, the horse will have long since bolted, had a herd of foals and died of old age.

This can't be a serious suggestion.

It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

No it's not, more flippancy!  The two illnesses are caused by DIFFERENT viruses.

Tomato / Tomato....Closing borders. Jesus wept.

Go to Dublin Airport on Friday and Saturday sure with signs saying down with this sort of thing as there is going to be thousands coming for the cancelled game.

The Chinese will do as they please. Coming out with radical border closings etc....Have you people any idea how big China is? It's not Leitrim.

They are the same thing, can you not grasp they are two different viruses?

The Northern Ireland Border is 310 miles or so. For years it's been relatively uncontrollable. As we've seen to crushing effect. We could never stop people slipping over and back.

China borders about 15 countries. It has about 1.5 billion people in its borders.

The damage is done, scaremongering is doing no good. Neither is these mad notions of closing borders. It's going to have to run it's course and the wold needs to react for an actual serious event going forward. All this is, is a warning shot.

The point I was pulling you up on was it's the flu, it is not, the rest of the horseshite you posted I didn't read.

Yes you did, never mind. It probably went over your head anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 02, 2020, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 12:20:56 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 11:29:52 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 11:08:43 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 10:55:16 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:40:41 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 10:29:54 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2020, 09:05:02 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 01, 2020, 11:17:03 PM
There was never a  chance this could be stopped, you can carry for 14 days with with a sniffle yet you could pass it to someone else who reacts very badly to it.

Easily.

- Everyone close the borders with China in December when it first came out.
- Anyone looking repatriated out of China is done so via strict quarantine zone under the repatriating governments control (i.e. military base).

What will likely happen is that we'll get to a point where extreme measures will be brought in when it becomes palatable to the politicians - but by then it will be far too late, the horse will have long since bolted, had a herd of foals and died of old age.

This can't be a serious suggestion.

It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

No it's not, more flippancy!  The two illnesses are caused by DIFFERENT viruses.

Tomato / Tomato....Closing borders. Jesus wept.

Go to Dublin Airport on Friday and Saturday sure with signs saying down with this sort of thing as there is going to be thousands coming for the cancelled game.

The Chinese will do as they please. Coming out with radical border closings etc....Have you people any idea how big China is? It's not Leitrim.

They are the same thing, can you not grasp they are two different viruses?

The Northern Ireland Border is 310 miles or so. For years it's been relatively uncontrollable. As we've seen to crushing effect. We could never stop people slipping over and back.

China borders about 15 countries. It has about 1.5 billion people in its borders.

The damage is done, scaremongering is doing no good. Neither is these mad notions of closing borders. It's going to have to run it's course and the wold needs to react for an actual serious event going forward. All this is, is a warning shot.

The point I was pulling you up on was it's the flu, it is not, the rest of the horseshite you posted I didn't read.

Yes you did, never mind. It probably went over your head anyway.

You think it's the flu, think everything is over your head.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 02, 2020, 01:09:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM

It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

Just to be clear can you not acknowledge this statement is incorrect, it is not the flu, and it's spreading is due to the recklessness of folk like yourself and others treating it with flippancy!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2020, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 11:08:43 AM
The Northern Ireland Border is 310 miles or so. For years it's been relatively uncontrollable. As we've seen to crushing effect. We could never stop people slipping over and back.

China borders about 15 countries. It has about 1.5 billion people in its borders.

Yet those same Chinese were able to restrict movement within their country where there were no pre-existing checkpoint locations. :rolleyes:

The closed (land) border doesn't need to be perfect, especially given the Chinese imposed internal restrictions on movement.

Closing the airport "borders" is relatively easy. The seaports marginally harder.


Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 11:08:43 AM
The damage is done, scaremongering is doing no good. Neither is these mad notions of closing borders. It's going to have to run it's course

That's my point. My f**king sentence even mentioned the month the borders would have had to close, The politicians have dithered for far too long when it could have been contained to China and China alone.


Plan A would have been to contain it in China long enough for a vaccine to be developed. That is now scrapped due to a leadership vacuum across most of the world. Indeed, if the Chinese local government in Wuhan had acted swiftly enough, the whole thing could have been contained to a few dozen people. Unfortunately it took Central government to get involved before things started moving.

Plan B is now a race to get vaccines developed before it spreads to too many of those vulnerable to it (sick & elderly). Which means every one of those not at high risk being diligent to stop themselves acting as carriers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 01:34:11 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 01:09:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM

It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

Just to be clear can you not acknowledge this statement is incorrect, it is not the flu, and it's spreading is due to the recklessness of folk like yourself and others treating it with flippancy!

From the WHO website.

The most common symptoms of COVID-19 are fever, tiredness, and dry cough. Some patients may have aches and pains, nasal congestion, runny nose, sore throat or diarrhea. These symptoms are usually mild and begin gradually. Some people become infected but don't develop any symptoms and don't feel unwell. Most people (about 80%) recover from the disease without needing special treatment. Around 1 out of every 6 people who gets COVID-19 becomes seriously ill and develops difficulty breathing. Older people, and those with underlying medical problems like high blood pressure, heart problems or diabetes, are more likely to develop serious illness. About 2% of people with the disease have died. People with fever, cough and difficulty breathing should seek medical attention.

So whilst it may not be "flu"...it's fair enough to suggest they aren't exactly dissociated. Especially to someone such as myself who isn't exactly buying the hype and hysteria that it is bringing. On that 2% (90% of those are from the originating province in China - BBC).

As for me being partially or somehow responsible for it spreading due to my "recklessness", have a word with yourself and calm down. Absolute nonsense. Up there with some of the biggest crap I've seen online and that's saying something.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2020, 01:41:45 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 01:34:11 PM
So whilst it may not be "flu"...it's fair enough to suggest they aren't exactly dissociated. Especially to someone such as myself who isn't exactly buying the hype and hysteria that it is bringing. On that 2% (90% of those are from the originating province in China - BBC).

It is not the flu.

Perhaps someone such as yourself cannot process that while symptoms may appear the same - there are fundamental differences underneath.


Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 01:34:11 PM
As for me being partially or somehow responsible for it spreading due to my "recklessness", have a word with yourself and calm down. Absolute nonsense. Up there with some of the biggest crap I've seen online and that's saying something.

The diligence of 99 people can easily be ruined by one eejit going off and ignoring all advice.

What if someone who "knew better" went for pints with a mate just back from skiing in Italy, then a few days later went into a hospital ward to visit someone before taking the bus up to the airport and boarded a flight abroad?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 02, 2020, 01:49:43 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 01:34:11 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 01:09:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM

It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

Just to be clear can you not acknowledge this statement is incorrect, it is not the flu, and it's spreading is due to the recklessness of folk like yourself and others treating it with flippancy!

From the WHO website.

The most common symptoms of COVID-19 are fever, tiredness, and dry cough. Some patients may have aches and pains, nasal congestion, runny nose, sore throat or diarrhea. These symptoms are usually mild and begin gradually. Some people become infected but don't develop any symptoms and don't feel unwell. Most people (about 80%) recover from the disease without needing special treatment. Around 1 out of every 6 people who gets COVID-19 becomes seriously ill and develops difficulty breathing. Older people, and those with underlying medical problems like high blood pressure, heart problems or diabetes, are more likely to develop serious illness. About 2% of people with the disease have died. People with fever, cough and difficulty breathing should seek medical attention.

So whilst it may not be "flu"...it's fair enough to suggest they aren't exactly dissociated. Especially to someone such as myself who isn't exactly buying the hype and hysteria that it is bringing. On that 2% (90% of those are from the originating province in China - BBC).

As for me being partially or somehow responsible for it spreading due to my "recklessness", have a word with yourself and calm down. Absolute nonsense. Up there with some of the biggest crap I've seen online and that's saying something.

So you acknowledge it's not the flu then???  Anyone treating this with the flippancy you are and not following public health warnings are of course aiding the spread, it's great though that you are so better informed than health and government experts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 01:52:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2020, 01:41:45 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 01:34:11 PM
So whilst it may not be "flu"...it's fair enough to suggest they aren't exactly dissociated. Especially to someone such as myself who isn't exactly buying the hype and hysteria that it is bringing. On that 2% (90% of those are from the originating province in China - BBC).

It is not the flu.

Perhaps someone such as yourself cannot process that while symptoms may appear the same - there are fundamental differences underneath.


Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 01:34:11 PM
As for me being partially or somehow responsible for it spreading due to my "recklessness", have a word with yourself and calm down. Absolute nonsense. Up there with some of the biggest crap I've seen online and that's saying something.

The diligence of 99 people can easily be ruined by one eejit going off and ignoring all advice.

What if someone who "knew better" went for pints with a mate just back from skiing in Italy, then a few days later went into a hospital ward to visit someone before taking the bus up to the airport and boarded a flight abroad?

I get your point, I truly do. But your not talking in the realm of reality. You must accept that. As an Irishman you know if you wake up tomorrow morning and you aren't feeling great, for want of a better phrase you are just going to horse on through the day. What you are advocating is the right course of action sure, but absolutely doomed to fail with individuals being individuals, it's uncontrollable, so what we must do now is prepare for the future. Perhaps in the future an immediate lockdown of borders is a realistic option. I don't know, I don't see it happening though.

As I said earlier, it's now out. We need a vaccination. The vast, vast majority of the issues are in China so it's a kinda roundabout positive that in a mass populated country it's not infected much, much more (that we know of, can only go on these figures).

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2020, 01:55:23 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 01:52:56 PMAs an Irishman you know if you wake up tomorrow morning and you aren't feeling great, for want of a better phrase you are just going to horse on through the day.

As I said earlier, it's now out. We need a vaccination. The vast, vast majority of the issues are in China so it's a kinda roundabout positive that in a mass populated country it's not infected much, much more (that we know of, can only go on these figures).

But the Chinese restricted people to their homes. They stopped work. They stopped most internal travel.

If we continue to "horse on through the day", why are you expecting our outcome to be better than China?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 02:01:37 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 01:49:43 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 01:34:11 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 01:09:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM

It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

Just to be clear can you not acknowledge this statement is incorrect, it is not the flu, and it's spreading is due to the recklessness of folk like yourself and others treating it with flippancy!

From the WHO website.

The most common symptoms of COVID-19 are fever, tiredness, and dry cough. Some patients may have aches and pains, nasal congestion, runny nose, sore throat or diarrhea. These symptoms are usually mild and begin gradually. Some people become infected but don't develop any symptoms and don't feel unwell. Most people (about 80%) recover from the disease without needing special treatment. Around 1 out of every 6 people who gets COVID-19 becomes seriously ill and develops difficulty breathing. Older people, and those with underlying medical problems like high blood pressure, heart problems or diabetes, are more likely to develop serious illness. About 2% of people with the disease have died. People with fever, cough and difficulty breathing should seek medical attention.

So whilst it may not be "flu"...it's fair enough to suggest they aren't exactly dissociated. Especially to someone such as myself who isn't exactly buying the hype and hysteria that it is bringing. On that 2% (90% of those are from the originating province in China - BBC).

As for me being partially or somehow responsible for it spreading due to my "recklessness", have a word with yourself and calm down. Absolute nonsense. Up there with some of the biggest crap I've seen online and that's saying something.

So you acknowledge it's not the flu then???  Anyone treating this with the flippancy you are and not following public health warnings are of course aiding the spread, it's great though that you are so better informed than health and government experts.

Just to be flippant and prove a point, just checked the Irish Govt website there, they are advocating a distance of 1metre between other people - I have since pulled my desk up in my office and told this woman beside me the reasons. I would hate to be responsible for the spread of something (of course something that I don't have and likely within every parameter known so far, won't have).

Oh, interestingly, the Irish government have not banned travel to China or Italy (they are getting the most press). Or indeed have advised no entry restrictions into Ireland from either of these countries either. Strange.

Furthermore, this is a good one....from the Irish Govt website directly.

"To date, entry screening at ports and airports is not recommended by World Health Organization (WHO) or the European Centre for Disease Control (ECDC)."



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 02:09:46 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2020, 01:55:23 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 01:52:56 PMAs an Irishman you know if you wake up tomorrow morning and you aren't feeling great, for want of a better phrase you are just going to horse on through the day.

As I said earlier, it's now out. We need a vaccination. The vast, vast majority of the issues are in China so it's a kinda roundabout positive that in a mass populated country it's not infected much, much more (that we know of, can only go on these figures).

But the Chinese restricted people to their homes. They stopped work. They stopped most internal travel.

If we continue to "horse on through the day", why are you expecting our outcome to be better than China?

Yes again, this is after the event. Once it's out, it's out. It's something that has been thrust upon the World and was unpredictable I think we can agree?. Of course they took action after, but sure did this whole thing not start in December of last year? How long has Wuhan been in lockdown for? Just googled - January 23rd. It's probably worked as I said earlier, the vast majority of fatalities is there but cases (i believe) are now on the wane compared to outside Wuhan and the Herbei province?

I never said anything about our outcome being better. - I imagine this will continue to spread for another bit yet. I asked what we should do going forward on a more serious matter that could happen highlighted by the spread of this particular virus considering the reactionary defences that governments have to take? Can we instantly block travel in and out as a nation? The Chinese of course could, they answer only to themselves but they did not at the time.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 02, 2020, 02:23:59 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 01:52:56 PM
I get your point, I truly do. But your not talking in the realm of reality. You must accept that. As an Irishman you know if you wake up tomorrow morning and you aren't feeling great, for want of a better phrase you are just going to horse on through the day. What you are advocating is the right course of action sure, but absolutely doomed to fail with individuals being individuals, it's uncontrollable, so what we must do now is prepare for the future. Perhaps in the future an immediate lockdown of borders is a realistic option. I don't know, I don't see it happening though.

Not all Irishmen are equally callous about their effect on other people as you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on March 02, 2020, 02:51:30 PM
The snowflakeitius surrounding this virus appears to be more contagious than the virus itself.

I'll give it 2 more weeks and it will have passed like most flu like viruses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 02, 2020, 03:24:45 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 02:01:37 PM

Just to be flippant and prove a point, just checked the Irish Govt website there, they are advocating a distance of 1metre between other people - I have since pulled my desk up in my office and told this woman beside me the reasons. I would hate to be responsible for the spread of something (of course something that I don't have and likely within every parameter known so far, won't have).


https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/a02c5a-what-is-happening/#irelands-response (https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/a02c5a-what-is-happening/#irelands-response)

Contact Tracing
In the event of any confirmed case, a clinician will speak to the patient to get details of places they visited and the people they've been in contact with since they became unwell. This will provide a detailed picture of the people we need to contact, such as family members, colleagues or fellow travellers.

This list of people will be contacted with instruction and advice on what to do if they display symptoms.

If a member of the contact list displays symptoms, we isolate and test this individual and provide treatment, if confirmed.

A close contact involves either face-to-face contact or spending more than 15 minutes within 2 metres of an infected person. We do not contact trace persons that may have passed by on the street or in a shop. The risk of contact in that instance is very low.

So have the virus or your colleague?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 02, 2020, 03:25:45 PM
By the way are you going to acknowledge it isn't the flu - or are you just going to ignore your pathetic post and continue with shite talking?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 02, 2020, 03:31:34 PM
Quote from: highorlow on March 02, 2020, 02:51:30 PM
The snowflakeitius surrounding this virus appears to be more contagious than the virus itself.

I'll give it 2 more weeks and it will have passed like most flu like viruses.

Another bore-feast whose attitude would quickly change if God Forbid it came home to roast in their world.   No one know the full effect of this of how it will mutate why is it is so wrong to take precautions in an era when the world is now a much smaller place and we are all in effect in it together!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 02, 2020, 04:05:21 PM
Quote from: highorlow on March 02, 2020, 02:51:30 PM
The snowflakeitius surrounding this virus appears to be more contagious than the virus itself.

I'll give it 2 more weeks and it will have passed like most flu like viruses.

You don't know that. It doesn't seem a reasonable experiment to wait and see.
Even if it is less in the summer then the problem will appear in November again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2020, 07:25:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 02, 2020, 04:05:21 PM
Quote from: highorlow on March 02, 2020, 02:51:30 PM
The snowflakeitius surrounding this virus appears to be more contagious than the virus itself.

I'll give it 2 more weeks and it will have passed like most flu like viruses.

You don't know that. It doesn't seem a reasonable experiment to wait and see.
Even if it is less in the summer then the problem will appear in November again.

As long as I get away on holidays to northern Italy and back in time for the Hurling finals! Hit every pub! I'll start in Mahers
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 02, 2020, 07:42:00 PM
I'd imagine this virus is well established in Ireland the UK. Similar to Foot and Mouth it was well spread before authorities got a handle on it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 02, 2020, 07:43:08 PM
I'm sick to the balls hearing about it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 02, 2020, 08:09:09 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 02, 2020, 07:43:08 PM
I'm sick to the balls hearing about it

My heart bleeds for ya!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 02, 2020, 08:46:37 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 02, 2020, 07:42:00 PM
I'd imagine this virus is well established in Ireland the UK. Similar to Foot and Mouth it was well spread before authorities got a handle on it.

Ach, they've been completely asleep at the wheel.

Start with dramatic intervention, then ease off if evidence supports that.

Instead they've f**ked around being softly softly till its too late and by the time they do get the finger out, the seeds will have long since been sown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: playwiththewind1st on March 02, 2020, 09:09:38 PM
"Another bore-feast whose attitude would quickly change if God Forbid it came home to roast in their world.   No one know the full effect of this of how it will mutate why is it is so wrong to take precautions in an era when the world is now a much smaller place and we are all in effect in it together!"

Forgive me, but I simply can't understand any of that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 02, 2020, 09:20:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 02, 2020, 07:42:00 PM
I'd imagine this virus is well established in Ireland the UK. Similar to Foot and Mouth it was well spread before authorities got a handle on it.

Ah yes, but foot and mouth was rampant in England and only in a few places here. Big difference.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 02, 2020, 09:53:59 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on March 02, 2020, 09:09:38 PM
"Another bore-feast whose attitude would quickly change if God Forbid it came home to roast in their world.   No one know the full effect of this of how it will mutate why is it is so wrong to take precautions in an era when the world is now a much smaller place and we are all in effect in it together!"

Forgive me, but I simply can't understand any of that.

It's ok, ask an adult.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: playwiththewind1st on March 02, 2020, 10:12:39 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 09:53:59 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on March 02, 2020, 09:09:38 PM
"Another bore-feast whose attitude would quickly change if God Forbid it came home to roast in their world.   No one know the full effect of this of how it will mutate why is it is so wrong to take precautions in an era when the world is now a much smaller place and we are all in effect in it together!"

Forgive me, but I simply can't understand any of that.

It's ok, ask an adult.

Preferably one who can construct a semi intelligent sentence or 2, perhaps?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 02, 2020, 11:35:31 PM
So, flights cancelled by some airlines due to low demand. Funny they didn't cancel them 2 weeks ago.

Good to know they have the publics interests at heart!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2020, 11:44:12 PM
Adobe is cancelling its annual Summit in Vegas. That's a big deal.

I wonder how many other conferences are gonna be cancelled. Think of the flights not taken, hotel rooms sitting empty, restaurants getting less business.

The economy is going to crash and burn.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 03, 2020, 12:29:18 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on January 24, 2020, 08:39:08 PM
Are we genuinely living in a world that believes China will build a hospital in 10 days! The mind boggles!

This hospital has now been closed as it is no longer needed.

Quote from: BennyCake on March 02, 2020, 11:35:31 PM
So, flights cancelled by some airlines due to low demand. Funny they didn't cancel them 2 weeks ago.

Was there less demand 2 weeks ago?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 03, 2020, 07:48:07 AM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on March 02, 2020, 10:12:39 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 02, 2020, 09:53:59 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on March 02, 2020, 09:09:38 PM
"Another bore-feast whose attitude would quickly change if God Forbid it came home to roast in their world.   No one know the full effect of this of how it will mutate why is it is so wrong to take precautions in an era when the world is now a much smaller place and we are all in effect in it together!"

Forgive me, but I simply can't understand any of that.

It's ok, ask an adult.

Preferably one who can construct a semi intelligent sentence or 2, perhaps?

Sounds like you are in lumber then!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 03, 2020, 07:50:48 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 02, 2020, 11:35:31 PM
So, flights cancelled by some airlines due to low demand. Funny they didn't cancel them 2 weeks ago.

Good to know they have the publics interests at heart!

Yes so if you are flying on Ryanair to Italy they can cancel your flight but if you are flying on Ryanair to Italy and don't want it now due to the outbreak, you have no legal right to cancel, you have to love big business.  Can someone please break this down for playwiththewind1st, he can't read and has no access to an adult who can help him, thanks in advance!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on March 03, 2020, 09:10:33 AM
The panic has fairly set in among the people in our office (mostly the women).  "We need to get signs up!"  "Hand sanitizers!!!! Quick."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 03, 2020, 09:19:23 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on March 03, 2020, 09:10:33 AM
The panic has fairly set in among the people in our office (mostly the women).  "We need to get signs up!"  "Hand sanitizers!!!! Quick."

I've tried not touching my face today, apparently you touch your face 30 times in an hour, very difficult to do. I deal with the highest  risk people so I've been wiping surfaces more often than normal. At this rate though I'll run out of sanitizerz and wipes!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 09:29:01 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on March 03, 2020, 09:10:33 AM
The panic has fairly set in among the people in our office (mostly the women).  "We need to get signs up!"  "Hand sanitizers!!!! Quick."

Not helped by the attitude of some people who sound like they actually would like this to be the end of days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 03, 2020, 11:00:03 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on March 03, 2020, 09:10:33 AM
The panic has fairly set in among the people in our office (mostly the women).  "We need to get signs up!"  "Hand sanitizers!!!! Quick."

Jarleth is getting some stick from his letter to parents in St Pauls.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 03, 2020, 11:01:16 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 09:29:01 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on March 03, 2020, 09:10:33 AM
The panic has fairly set in among the people in our office (mostly the women).  "We need to get signs up!"  "Hand sanitizers!!!! Quick."

Not helped by the attitude of some people who sound like they actually would like this to be the end of days.

Or folk who would happily put others at risk with the attitude, I am alright stuff the rest of you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on March 03, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
Looking at the latest graph's on this it has flatlined in China and looks to be flatlining elsewhere also. Today's numbers in Italy, France, Germany and Spain should tell a tale. Likely 2 versions of the virus knocking around. We are lucky that when it arrived here we have a cold snap with frost at night, that will stop the spread. 60% recovery rate so far and more and more each day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 03, 2020, 11:14:47 AM
Quote from: highorlow on March 03, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
Looking at the latest graph's on this it has flatlined in China and looks to be flatlining elsewhere also.

WHAT?!?!

Did The Donald draw your graphs?

Just the 9% increase in numbers outside of China yesterday.

Which is admittedly better than the 21% increase on Sunday, but 1 day is not a trend.


(China has seemed to have plateaued, just a 0.25% increase yesterday - but bear in mind the draconian measures they have taken which is restricting the spread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 03, 2020, 11:45:28 AM
Quote from: highorlow on March 03, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
Looking at the latest graph's on this it has flatlined in China and looks to be flatlining elsewhere also. Today's numbers in Italy, France, Germany and Spain should tell a tale. Likely 2 versions of the virus knocking around. We are lucky that when it arrived here we have a cold snap with frost at night, that will stop the spread. 60% recovery rate so far and more and more each day.

So there is no frost at night in Korea?
How could a night's frost stop it when people are in buildings.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on March 03, 2020, 11:54:24 AM
QuoteWHAT?!?!

Did The Donald draw your graphs?

Just the 9% increase in numbers outside of China yesterday.

Which is admittedly better than the 21% increase on Sunday, but 1 day is not a trend.


(China has seemed to have plateaued, just a 0.25% increase yesterday - but bear in mind the draconian measures they have taken which is restricting the spread.


Rhetorical, I take it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:24:59 PM
Quote from: highorlow on March 03, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
Looking at the latest graph's on this it has flatlined in China and looks to be flatlining elsewhere also. Today's numbers in Italy, France, Germany and Spain should tell a tale. Likely 2 versions of the virus knocking around. We are lucky that when it arrived here we have a cold snap with frost at night, that will stop the spread. 60% recovery rate so far and more and more each day.

You should submit your findings to WHO and get someone to teach you maths.  You and getoverthebar will be saying next I can walk why all these ramps into buildings - ridiculous!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 12:34:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:24:59 PM
Quote from: highorlow on March 03, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
Looking at the latest graph's on this it has flatlined in China and looks to be flatlining elsewhere also. Today's numbers in Italy, France, Germany and Spain should tell a tale. Likely 2 versions of the virus knocking around. We are lucky that when it arrived here we have a cold snap with frost at night, that will stop the spread. 60% recovery rate so far and more and more each day.

You should submit your findings to WHO and get someone to teach you maths.  You and getoverthebar will be saying next I can walk why all these ramps into buildings - ridiculous!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

We may get someone to teach you English and basic sentence construction while we are at it so.

You sound like you are truly consumed by this all and it's really worrying you. Which is fair enough, but your inability to even accept others may not be too worried about it and will continue about their day to day lives is truly baffling. Not everyone wants to buy into the doom and gloom, nor do they want to be abused by someone who wants to force feed (unsubstantiated) end of days stuff to us. I have more to be optimistic about in life.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebuzz on March 03, 2020, 12:40:58 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 12:34:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:24:59 PM
Quote from: highorlow on March 03, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
Looking at the latest graph's on this it has flatlined in China and looks to be flatlining elsewhere also. Today's numbers in Italy, France, Germany and Spain should tell a tale. Likely 2 versions of the virus knocking around. We are lucky that when it arrived here we have a cold snap with frost at night, that will stop the spread. 60% recovery rate so far and more and more each day.

You should submit your findings to WHO and get someone to teach you maths.  You and getoverthebar will be saying next I can walk why all these ramps into buildings - ridiculous!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

We may get someone to teach you English and basic sentence construction while we are at it so.

You sound like you are truly consumed by this all and it's really worrying you. Which is fair enough, but your inability to even accept others may not be too worried about it and will continue about their day to day lives is truly baffling. Not everyone wants to buy into the doom and gloom, nor do they want to be abused by someone who wants to force feed (unsubstantiated) end of days stuff to us. I have more to be optimistic about in life.

Well said GetOverTheBar :) :)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:50:03 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 12:34:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:24:59 PM
Quote from: highorlow on March 03, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
Looking at the latest graph's on this it has flatlined in China and looks to be flatlining elsewhere also. Today's numbers in Italy, France, Germany and Spain should tell a tale. Likely 2 versions of the virus knocking around. We are lucky that when it arrived here we have a cold snap with frost at night, that will stop the spread. 60% recovery rate so far and more and more each day.

You should submit your findings to WHO and get someone to teach you maths.  You and getoverthebar will be saying next I can walk why all these ramps into buildings - ridiculous!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

We may get someone to teach you English and basic sentence construction while we are at it so.

You sound like you are truly consumed by this all and it's really worrying you. Which is fair enough, but your inability to even accept others may not be too worried about it and will continue about their day to day lives is truly baffling. Not everyone wants to buy into the doom and gloom, nor do they want to be abused by someone who wants to force feed (unsubstantiated) end of days stuff to us. I have more to be optimistic about in life.

You still think it's the flu?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 03, 2020, 12:53:25 PM
It is not the end of days and it is irresponsible to say so.
It is not "just the flu" and it is irresponsible to say so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:54:02 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 12:34:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:24:59 PM
Quote from: highorlow on March 03, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
Looking at the latest graph's on this it has flatlined in China and looks to be flatlining elsewhere also. Today's numbers in Italy, France, Germany and Spain should tell a tale. Likely 2 versions of the virus knocking around. We are lucky that when it arrived here we have a cold snap with frost at night, that will stop the spread. 60% recovery rate so far and more and more each day.

You should submit your findings to WHO and get someone to teach you maths.  You and getoverthebar will be saying next I can walk why all these ramps into buildings - ridiculous!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

We may get someone to teach you English and basic sentence construction while we are at it so.

You sound like you are truly consumed by this all and it's really worrying you. Which is fair enough, but your inability to even accept others may not be too worried about it and will continue about their day to day lives is truly baffling. Not everyone wants to buy into the doom and gloom, nor do they want to be abused by someone who wants to force feed (unsubstantiated) end of days stuff to us. I have more to be optimistic about in life.

Our GAA president in waiting sent a letter yesterday to all parents to say that kids who didn't have any symptoms from their recent ski trip were allowed back to school, others had symptoms.  It only takes one child who has the virus to spread to others and whilst all young folk might well fight it off, the wider society is full of old and sick people, why should their health be put at risk because of flippant I am alright attitudes like yours, as for the basic sentence construction, wind your neck in, it's not A-Level English - it's a bunch of halfwits like yourself who thinks they are above everyone else.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:54:02 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 12:34:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:24:59 PM
Quote from: highorlow on March 03, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
Looking at the latest graph's on this it has flatlined in China and looks to be flatlining elsewhere also. Today's numbers in Italy, France, Germany and Spain should tell a tale. Likely 2 versions of the virus knocking around. We are lucky that when it arrived here we have a cold snap with frost at night, that will stop the spread. 60% recovery rate so far and more and more each day.

You should submit your findings to WHO and get someone to teach you maths.  You and getoverthebar will be saying next I can walk why all these ramps into buildings - ridiculous!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

We may get someone to teach you English and basic sentence construction while we are at it so.

You sound like you are truly consumed by this all and it's really worrying you. Which is fair enough, but your inability to even accept others may not be too worried about it and will continue about their day to day lives is truly baffling. Not everyone wants to buy into the doom and gloom, nor do they want to be abused by someone who wants to force feed (unsubstantiated) end of days stuff to us. I have more to be optimistic about in life.

Our GAA president in waiting sent a letter yesterday to all parents to say that kids who didn't have any symptoms from their recent ski trip were allowed back to school, others had symptoms.  It only takes one child who has the virus to spread to others and whilst all young folk might well fight it off, the wider society is full of old and sick people, why should their health be put at risk because of flippant I am alright attitudes like yours, as for the basic sentence construction, wind your neck in, it's not A-Level English - it's a bunch of halfwits like yourself who thinks they are above everyone else.

You sound like you would be great craic to meet up with for a few pints lad. I think you have some kind of problem.

Relax, it's just the internet....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 03, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:54:02 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 12:34:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:24:59 PM
Quote from: highorlow on March 03, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
Looking at the latest graph's on this it has flatlined in China and looks to be flatlining elsewhere also. Today's numbers in Italy, France, Germany and Spain should tell a tale. Likely 2 versions of the virus knocking around. We are lucky that when it arrived here we have a cold snap with frost at night, that will stop the spread. 60% recovery rate so far and more and more each day.

You should submit your findings to WHO and get someone to teach you maths.  You and getoverthebar will be saying next I can walk why all these ramps into buildings - ridiculous!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

We may get someone to teach you English and basic sentence construction while we are at it so.

You sound like you are truly consumed by this all and it's really worrying you. Which is fair enough, but your inability to even accept others may not be too worried about it and will continue about their day to day lives is truly baffling. Not everyone wants to buy into the doom and gloom, nor do they want to be abused by someone who wants to force feed (unsubstantiated) end of days stuff to us. I have more to be optimistic about in life.

Our GAA president in waiting sent a letter yesterday to all parents to say that kids who didn't have any symptoms from their recent ski trip were allowed back to school, others had symptoms.  It only takes one child who has the virus to spread to others and whilst all young folk might well fight it off, the wider society is full of old and sick people, why should their health be put at risk because of flippant I am alright attitudes like yours, as for the basic sentence construction, wind your neck in, it's not A-Level English - it's a bunch of halfwits like yourself who thinks they are above everyone else.

You sound like you would be great craic to meet up with for a few pints lad. I think you have some kind of problem.

Relax, it's just the internet....

Good man, still think it's just the flu? Wind your neck in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 01:35:17 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:54:02 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 12:34:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:24:59 PM
Quote from: highorlow on March 03, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
Looking at the latest graph's on this it has flatlined in China and looks to be flatlining elsewhere also. Today's numbers in Italy, France, Germany and Spain should tell a tale. Likely 2 versions of the virus knocking around. We are lucky that when it arrived here we have a cold snap with frost at night, that will stop the spread. 60% recovery rate so far and more and more each day.

You should submit your findings to WHO and get someone to teach you maths.  You and getoverthebar will be saying next I can walk why all these ramps into buildings - ridiculous!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

We may get someone to teach you English and basic sentence construction while we are at it so.

You sound like you are truly consumed by this all and it's really worrying you. Which is fair enough, but your inability to even accept others may not be too worried about it and will continue about their day to day lives is truly baffling. Not everyone wants to buy into the doom and gloom, nor do they want to be abused by someone who wants to force feed (unsubstantiated) end of days stuff to us. I have more to be optimistic about in life.

Our GAA president in waiting sent a letter yesterday to all parents to say that kids who didn't have any symptoms from their recent ski trip were allowed back to school, others had symptoms.  It only takes one child who has the virus to spread to others and whilst all young folk might well fight it off, the wider society is full of old and sick people, why should their health be put at risk because of flippant I am alright attitudes like yours, as for the basic sentence construction, wind your neck in, it's not A-Level English - it's a bunch of halfwits like yourself who thinks they are above everyone else.

You sound like you would be great craic to meet up with for a few pints lad. I think you have some kind of problem.

Relax, it's just the internet....

Good man, still think it's just the flu? Wind your neck in.

Calm down lad, don't you know stress isn't good for your immune system?  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: weareros on March 03, 2020, 01:45:44 PM
It's interesting how the virus is showing the values of different societies

China - fence them in
North Korea - shoot them
America - lower interest rates
England - stock up on bog roll
Ireland - sure we'll be grand on the day


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 03, 2020, 01:47:03 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 01:35:17 PM
Calm down lad, don't you know stress isn't good for your immune system?  ;)

Bet you actually believe you are clever and funny. Still no word if you stand by your opening gambit?

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM

It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 03, 2020, 01:59:02 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 12:59:47 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:54:02 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 12:34:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:24:59 PM
Quote from: highorlow on March 03, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
Looking at the latest graph's on this it has flatlined in China and looks to be flatlining elsewhere also. Today's numbers in Italy, France, Germany and Spain should tell a tale. Likely 2 versions of the virus knocking around. We are lucky that when it arrived here we have a cold snap with frost at night, that will stop the spread. 60% recovery rate so far and more and more each day.

You should submit your findings to WHO and get someone to teach you maths.  You and getoverthebar will be saying next I can walk why all these ramps into buildings - ridiculous!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

We may get someone to teach you English and basic sentence construction while we are at it so.

You sound like you are truly consumed by this all and it's really worrying you. Which is fair enough, but your inability to even accept others may not be too worried about it and will continue about their day to day lives is truly baffling. Not everyone wants to buy into the doom and gloom, nor do they want to be abused by someone who wants to force feed (unsubstantiated) end of days stuff to us. I have more to be optimistic about in life.

Our GAA president in waiting sent a letter yesterday to all parents to say that kids who didn't have any symptoms from their recent ski trip were allowed back to school, others had symptoms.  It only takes one child who has the virus to spread to others and whilst all young folk might well fight it off, the wider society is full of old and sick people, why should their health be put at risk because of flippant I am alright attitudes like yours, as for the basic sentence construction, wind your neck in, it's not A-Level English - it's a bunch of halfwits like yourself who thinks they are above everyone else.

You sound like you would be great craic to meet up with for a few pints lad. I think you have some kind of problem.

Relax, it's just the internet....

Good man, still think it's just the flu? Wind your neck in.

It is very like the flu in fairness.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Denn Forever on March 03, 2020, 02:01:21 PM
Leprosy can be cured with Thalidomide.
.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 03, 2020, 02:02:50 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:54:02 PM
Our GAA president in waiting sent a letter yesterday to all parents to say that kids who didn't have any symptoms from their recent ski trip were allowed back to school, others had symptoms.  It only takes one child who has the virus to spread to others and whilst all young folk might well fight it off, the wider society is full of old and sick people, why should their health be put at risk because of flippant I am alright attitudes like yours, as for the basic sentence construction, wind your neck in, it's not A-Level English - it's a bunch of halfwits like yourself who thinks they are above everyone else.

In fairness, this should be only an issue for one day, as those with symptoms should be tested. If this is the pox then they'll take more measures and if they don't have the pox then there was no need.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 02:25:52 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 01:47:03 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 01:35:17 PM
Calm down lad, don't you know stress isn't good for your immune system?  ;)

Bet you actually believe you are clever and funny. Still no word if you stand by your opening gambit?

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM

It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.





The point is, you seem to have a penchant for abusing people in this thread who you perceive as not agreeing with you. This is not a right or wrong issue and people are and can make up their own minds just to how they feel the need to act in the face on this on going issue.

So if you continue to give sh*t, be prepared to get it back. There is no need to start abusing people because they discuss an issue or say something which you have declared wrong. Everyone is being educated at the same time on this issue. You do not have the answers anymore than the rest of us. Lose the God complex and childish mannerisms. You might get taken seriously.

To that end, RadioGAAGAA and armaghniac have both put in excellent points which at times conflicted with my own, how did we all react? Simple chat. It's that easy. Just dial the aggression down a notch or two - if you don't mind.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 03, 2020, 02:45:58 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:54:02 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 12:34:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:24:59 PM
Quote from: highorlow on March 03, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
Looking at the latest graph's on this it has flatlined in China and looks to be flatlining elsewhere also. Today's numbers in Italy, France, Germany and Spain should tell a tale. Likely 2 versions of the virus knocking around. We are lucky that when it arrived here we have a cold snap with frost at night, that will stop the spread. 60% recovery rate so far and more and more each day.

You should submit your findings to WHO and get someone to teach you maths.  You and getoverthebar will be saying next I can walk why all these ramps into buildings - ridiculous!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

We may get someone to teach you English and basic sentence construction while we are at it so.

You sound like you are truly consumed by this all and it's really worrying you. Which is fair enough, but your inability to even accept others may not be too worried about it and will continue about their day to day lives is truly baffling. Not everyone wants to buy into the doom and gloom, nor do they want to be abused by someone who wants to force feed (unsubstantiated) end of days stuff to us. I have more to be optimistic about in life.

Our GAA president in waiting sent a letter yesterday to all parents to say that kids who didn't have any symptoms from their recent ski trip were allowed back to school, others had symptoms.  It only takes one child who has the virus to spread to others and whilst all young folk might well fight it off, the wider society is full of old and sick people, why should their health be put at risk because of flippant I am alright attitudes like yours, as for the basic sentence construction, wind your neck in, it's not A-Level English - it's a bunch of halfwits like yourself who thinks they are above everyone else.

I assume the kids who had symptoms are not allowed back to school?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on March 03, 2020, 04:06:35 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 03, 2020, 02:45:58 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:54:02 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 12:34:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:24:59 PM
Quote from: highorlow on March 03, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
Looking at the latest graph's on this it has flatlined in China and looks to be flatlining elsewhere also. Today's numbers in Italy, France, Germany and Spain should tell a tale. Likely 2 versions of the virus knocking around. We are lucky that when it arrived here we have a cold snap with frost at night, that will stop the spread. 60% recovery rate so far and more and more each day.

You should submit your findings to WHO and get someone to teach you maths.  You and getoverthebar will be saying next I can walk why all these ramps into buildings - ridiculous!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

We may get someone to teach you English and basic sentence construction while we are at it so.

You sound like you are truly consumed by this all and it's really worrying you. Which is fair enough, but your inability to even accept others may not be too worried about it and will continue about their day to day lives is truly baffling. Not everyone wants to buy into the doom and gloom, nor do they want to be abused by someone who wants to force feed (unsubstantiated) end of days stuff to us. I have more to be optimistic about in life.

Our GAA president in waiting sent a letter yesterday to all parents to say that kids who didn't have any symptoms from their recent ski trip were allowed back to school, others had symptoms.  It only takes one child who has the virus to spread to others and whilst all young folk might well fight it off, the wider society is full of old and sick people, why should their health be put at risk because of flippant I am alright attitudes like yours, as for the basic sentence construction, wind your neck in, it's not A-Level English - it's a bunch of halfwits like yourself who thinks they are above everyone else.

I assume the kids who had symptoms are not allowed back to school?

AFM is getting a bit preachy and argumentative alright, but to those arguing with him, I suggest you stop for a moment and think.

If you have an elderly parent, a husband or wife on chemo or an immuno-compromised child, you would be inclined to panic somewhat at the prospect of them being infected.  Depending on your perspective, this could look like a slow motion car crash.  One person's rational response to this crisis, could look very irresponsible to someone with a vulnerable loved one.  Maybe those that are worried, cannot help but worry.   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 03, 2020, 04:50:21 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 02:25:52 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 01:47:03 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 01:35:17 PM
Calm down lad, don't you know stress isn't good for your immune system?  ;)

Bet you actually believe you are clever and funny. Still no word if you stand by your opening gambit?

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM

It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.





The point is, you seem to have a penchant for abusing people in this thread who you perceive as not agreeing with you. This is not a right or wrong issue and people are and can make up their own minds just to how they feel the need to act in the face on this on going issue.

So if you continue to give sh*t, be prepared to get it back. There is no need to start abusing people because they discuss an issue or say something which you have declared wrong. Everyone is being educated at the same time on this issue. You do not have the answers anymore than the rest of us. Lose the God complex and childish mannerisms. You might get taken seriously.

To that end, RadioGAAGAA and armaghniac have both put in excellent points which at times conflicted with my own, how did we all react? Simple chat. It's that easy. Just dial the aggression down a notch or two - if you don't mind.

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 12:34:34 PM

We may get someone to teach you English and basic sentence construction while we are at it so.


Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 01:34:11 PM

As for me being partially or somehow responsible for it spreading due to my "recklessness", have a word with yourself and calm down. Absolute nonsense. Up there with some of the biggest crap I've seen online and that's saying something.

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 12:20:56 PM

Yes you did, never mind. It probably went over your head anyway.

::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 03, 2020, 04:58:44 PM
Quote from: APM on March 03, 2020, 04:06:35 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 03, 2020, 02:45:58 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:54:02 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2020, 12:34:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 03, 2020, 12:24:59 PM
Quote from: highorlow on March 03, 2020, 11:02:18 AM
Looking at the latest graph's on this it has flatlined in China and looks to be flatlining elsewhere also. Today's numbers in Italy, France, Germany and Spain should tell a tale. Likely 2 versions of the virus knocking around. We are lucky that when it arrived here we have a cold snap with frost at night, that will stop the spread. 60% recovery rate so far and more and more each day.

You should submit your findings to WHO and get someone to teach you maths.  You and getoverthebar will be saying next I can walk why all these ramps into buildings - ridiculous!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)

We may get someone to teach you English and basic sentence construction while we are at it so.

You sound like you are truly consumed by this all and it's really worrying you. Which is fair enough, but your inability to even accept others may not be too worried about it and will continue about their day to day lives is truly baffling. Not everyone wants to buy into the doom and gloom, nor do they want to be abused by someone who wants to force feed (unsubstantiated) end of days stuff to us. I have more to be optimistic about in life.

Our GAA president in waiting sent a letter yesterday to all parents to say that kids who didn't have any symptoms from their recent ski trip were allowed back to school, others had symptoms.  It only takes one child who has the virus to spread to others and whilst all young folk might well fight it off, the wider society is full of old and sick people, why should their health be put at risk because of flippant I am alright attitudes like yours, as for the basic sentence construction, wind your neck in, it's not A-Level English - it's a bunch of halfwits like yourself who thinks they are above everyone else.

I assume the kids who had symptoms are not allowed back to school?

AFM is getting a bit preachy and argumentative alright, but to those arguing with him, I suggest you stop for a moment and think.

If you have an elderly parent, a husband or wife on chemo or an immuno-compromised child, you would be inclined to panic somewhat at the prospect of them being infected.  Depending on your perspective, this could look like a slow motion car crash.  One person's rational response to this crisis, could look very irresponsible to someone with a vulnerable loved one.  Maybe those that are worried, cannot help but worry.

In a nutshell, for those who are at an age when they don't have a vulnerable elderly relative enjoy this time, one can be relaxed about this virus and its potential effect on themselves, I have no issue with that, but as a society surely taking measures to protect others should be encouraged and not met with flippancy, i'll leave it there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 03, 2020, 06:25:54 PM
Seems like a lot of people in the media are very worried about their sick friends/family

Use common sense, if you've a sick member of your family who fits the description of people who are more likely to get the worst from this flu like virus  ;) (like my dad) then take the proper precautions, ensure they are self isolating or being looked after by someone who's taking the right precautions!

Other than that there isn't much you can do, heaven forbid it happen to a loved one but the panic stuff going on is nuts. You can only deal with it if it happens, before that just be sensible
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 03, 2020, 06:42:37 PM
It's coming, wherever you are, and there's not much you can do except try to minimize your own risk of catching it with proper hand-washing and so on. And if you get the symptoms, stay home. Although unfortunately, staying home is not an option for a lot of people who are low-paid and have little or no sick leave allowance. Which I guess is partly why it's definitely on the way in most places.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 03, 2020, 06:43:29 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 03, 2020, 01:45:44 PM
It's interesting how the virus is showing the values of different societies

China - fence them in
North Korea - shoot them
America - lower interest rates
England - stock up on bog roll
Ireland - sure we'll be grand on the day

;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on March 03, 2020, 06:57:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 03, 2020, 06:25:54 PM
Seems like a lot of people in the media are very worried about their sick friends/family

Use common sense, if you've a sick member of your family who fits the description of people who are more likely to get the worst from this flu like virus  ;) (like my dad) then take the proper precautions, ensure they are self isolating or being looked after by someone who's taking the right precautions!

Other than that there isn't much you can do, heaven forbid it happen to a loved one but the panic stuff going on is nuts. You can only deal with it if it happens, before that just be sensible

Agree, but what is sensible?
Your version of sensible might be different to someone elses. 
Here's an example plenty of people could relate to. 

Someone might decide that they'll not take the kids round to see Grandad because he has just went through Chemo and needs to avoid infection. Meanwhile, their sister, whose kids have always got bugs and snatters (snaughters??), are at Grandad's all weekend, wrecking the place when he needs to rest and liable to give him a dose of the cold or flu. 

Scale that up to a national level.  There is always someone who will sneeze without using a tissue or cough all round the place.  There are people right now that will say, f**k it, I'm going to Lake Garda next week regardless - I don't give a shit if I catch it - at least then I'll be immune.  There are others in Italy that will come to Dublin next week and use the flights and hotels they booked for the six nations.  Then you will have people like this woman from Wuhan that flew to France during the height of the Chinese outbreak.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51231593

At an individual, community and government level, there is a "sweet spot" between complacency and panic.  The problem is that this "sweet spot" is a moving target.  What looks like panic today, could look perfectly rational tomorrow.  What looks rational today, could look like complacency tomorrow. 

To get ahead this disease, the approach needs to err heavily on the side of caution, otherwise we will be chasing the problem. I don't think anyone wants to look back in a year's time and say "that was the time when this could have been contained". 

Even with the best will in the world and a very proactive approach from government and society, the behavior of a few irresponsible people could make the efforts to contain the disease much more difficult. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on March 03, 2020, 07:07:59 PM
.... and I might just add, the problem about this outbreak is that we know so little about it and that makes containment important. 

For example, can a patient be reinfected having cleared the virus and can it stay dormant in the system?  These are things we don't know and that is the main thing that would make people wary. 

The other thing is that a panic response is almost as organic as the disease itself and there's no accounting for human behaviour.  The economy and supply chains are quite sensitive and the ability of the government to deliver public services in the case of widespread sickness would be very limited.  I would be concerned that the economic and systematic impact could be worse than the disease itself and that in itself is a good enough reason for containment. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 03, 2020, 08:09:22 PM
The Italian Health ministry has produced this website which gives the state of play regarding the virus

http://www.salute.gov.it/portale/nuovocoronavirus/dettaglioContenutiNuovoCoronavirus.jsp?lingua=italiano&id=5351&area=nuovoCoronavirus&menu=vuoto
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on March 03, 2020, 08:57:00 PM
2nd case confirmed in the east of the country
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 03, 2020, 09:32:08 PM
Containment doesn't appear to be working. Is there really anything that can be done to stop the spread. All the current measures appear to have done is slow it down. As with all these things if you're hearing about 1 or 2 confirmed cases I'd offer that the real number is significantly higher.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on March 03, 2020, 10:40:10 PM
Containment is working in the UK .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2020, 07:33:25 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 03, 2020, 08:57:00 PM
2nd case confirmed in the east of the country

Woman was in Northern Italy it seems.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 04, 2020, 07:41:23 AM
Quote from: APM on March 03, 2020, 06:57:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 03, 2020, 06:25:54 PM
Seems like a lot of people in the media are very worried about their sick friends/family

Use common sense, if you've a sick member of your family who fits the description of people who are more likely to get the worst from this flu like virus  ;) (like my dad) then take the proper precautions, ensure they are self isolating or being looked after by someone who's taking the right precautions!

Other than that there isn't much you can do, heaven forbid it happen to a loved one but the panic stuff going on is nuts. You can only deal with it if it happens, before that just be sensible

Agree, but what is sensible?
Your version of sensible might be different to someone elses. 
Here's an example plenty of people could relate to. 

Someone might decide that they'll not take the kids round to see Grandad because he has just went through Chemo and needs to avoid infection. Meanwhile, their sister, whose kids have always got bugs and snatters (snaughters??), are at Grandad's all weekend, wrecking the place when he needs to rest and liable to give him a dose of the cold or flu. 

Scale that up to a national level.  There is always someone who will sneeze without using a tissue or cough all round the place.  There are people right now that will say, f**k it, I'm going to Lake Garda next week regardless - I don't give a shit if I catch it - at least then I'll be immune.  There are others in Italy that will come to Dublin next week and use the flights and hotels they booked for the six nations.  Then you will have people like this woman from Wuhan that flew to France during the height of the Chinese outbreak.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51231593

At an individual, community and government level, there is a "sweet spot" between complacency and panic.  The problem is that this "sweet spot" is a moving target.  What looks like panic today, could look perfectly rational tomorrow.  What looks rational today, could look like complacency tomorrow. 

To get ahead this disease, the approach needs to err heavily on the side of caution, otherwise we will be chasing the problem. I don't think anyone wants to look back in a year's time and say "that was the time when this could have been contained". 

Even with the best will in the world and a very proactive approach from government and society, the behavior of a few irresponsible people could make the efforts to contain the disease much more difficult.

Have seen that in action first hand, Miltown says just be sensible, most will be sensible and vigilant but if even 5 or 10% just horse on through the day, it negates very quickly others caution.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2020, 09:06:43 AM
Listening to the radio today, the measures that they are taking for work purposes are extensive.. If I'm closed for 2 weeks that will have a major impact on our business (and my wages) I doubt very much my company will cover my wages.

Self employed people will (depending on the nature of their work) will lose out a lot more
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 04, 2020, 09:14:03 AM
Not as much as sick and old people who will potentially lose their lives.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 04, 2020, 09:31:06 AM
Some people will lose 2% of their wages, 2% will lose their lives.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 04, 2020, 09:36:52 AM
I've told all my employees that I'll pay them if they're affected (infected?). I think that is the right thing to do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on March 04, 2020, 09:43:33 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 09:36:52 AM
I've told all my employees that I'll pay them if they're affected (infected?). I think that is the right thing to do.

Do you require proof? There are chancers everywhere.  Here, I feel rotten, I'm away to self isolate for 2 weeks...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 04, 2020, 09:50:44 AM
Well if the chancers self isolate then they should be at home for 14 days. Anyone out and about should be sacked and prosecuted for fraud. This us is a serious matter and there should be no room for taking the piss.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 04, 2020, 10:20:05 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 09:36:52 AM
I've told all my employees that I'll pay them if they're affected (infected?). I think that is the right thing to do.

That's extremely noble of you, fair play. Not many employers will buy into though I would imagine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 04, 2020, 11:33:28 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on March 04, 2020, 09:43:33 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 09:36:52 AM
I've told all my employees that I'll pay them if they're affected (infected?). I think that is the right thing to do.

Do you require proof? There are chancers everywhere.  Here, I feel rotten, I'm away to self isolate for 2 weeks...

No. We're a small enough business (8 employees) and we treat them as grown ups. I'd like to think no one would be like that, in fact I know they wouldn't. So that's how we approach things. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyHarp on March 04, 2020, 01:16:08 PM
Italy to close all schools and colleges for 2 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TheOptimist on March 04, 2020, 01:30:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 11:33:28 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on March 04, 2020, 09:43:33 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 09:36:52 AM
I've told all my employees that I'll pay them if they're affected (infected?). I think that is the right thing to do.

Do you require proof? There are chancers everywhere.  Here, I feel rotten, I'm away to self isolate for 2 weeks...

No. We're a small enough business (8 employees) and we treat them as grown ups. I'd like to think no one would be like that, in fact I know they wouldn't. So that's how we approach things.

Could put alot of companies out of business that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on March 04, 2020, 01:31:52 PM
Seems to be a few cases around the "City of London" which could add to the economic consequences if that ramps up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 04, 2020, 01:35:54 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 04, 2020, 01:31:52 PM
Seems to be a few cases around the "City of London" which could add to the economic consequences if that ramps up

Why?

Getting rid of that shower is likely to improve the local economy!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 04, 2020, 02:02:54 PM
Quote from: TheOptimist on March 04, 2020, 01:30:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 11:33:28 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on March 04, 2020, 09:43:33 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2020, 09:36:52 AM
I've told all my employees that I'll pay them if they're affected (infected?). I think that is the right thing to do.

Do you require proof? There are chancers everywhere.  Here, I feel rotten, I'm away to self isolate for 2 weeks...

No. We're a small enough business (8 employees) and we treat them as grown ups. I'd like to think no one would be like that, in fact I know they wouldn't. So that's how we approach things.

Could put alot of companies out of business that.

UK paying statutory sick pay from day one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51738837 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51738837)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 04, 2020, 02:07:09 PM
Italy considering closing all schools and colleges until mid march!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-51734185 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-51734185)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on March 04, 2020, 04:46:50 PM
Two more cases in the wee six.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 04, 2020, 04:53:51 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on March 04, 2020, 04:46:50 PM
Two more cases in the wee six.

There are not particularly threatening though, one was in Italy and the other was from contact tracing of someone in England. The system is still working.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: playwiththewind1st on March 04, 2020, 05:12:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2020, 04:53:51 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on March 04, 2020, 04:46:50 PM
Two more cases in the wee six.

There are not particularly threatening though, one was in Italy and the other was from contact tracing of someone in England. The system is still working.

Which will be more than my payroll system will be doing, if you are to get SSP on day one, for coronavirus or self-isolation & on day 4, for all other complaints. Boris doesn't realise that the payroll software developers will have to do a bit of work on that particular one & then roll it out, all at the end of the tax year too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 04, 2020, 08:24:41 PM
More cases in the West of Ireland, 4 people all of whom were in Italy.
A least the West is getting its fair share, and Dublin is not getting it all.

That's the number of cases doubled in a day, although Italy is the main cause.

Also student in QUB likely with virus, who went to class! That could be problematic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2020, 08:46:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2020, 08:24:41 PM
More cases in the West of Ireland, 4 people all of whom were in Italy.
A least the West is getting its fair share, and Dublin is not getting it all.

That's the number of cases doubled in a day, although Italy is the main cause.

Also student in QUB likely with virus, who went to class! That could be problematic.

Only online now. Where in the West of the country?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ballinaman on March 04, 2020, 09:34:43 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2020, 08:46:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2020, 08:24:41 PM
More cases in the West of Ireland, 4 people all of whom were in Italy.
A least the West is getting its fair share, and Dublin is not getting it all.

That's the number of cases doubled in a day, although Italy is the main cause.

Also student in QUB likely with virus, who went to class! That could be problematic.

Only online now. Where in the West of the country?

Westport
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 04, 2020, 10:05:47 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on March 04, 2020, 09:34:43 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2020, 08:46:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2020, 08:24:41 PM
More cases in the West of Ireland, 4 people all of whom were in Italy.
A least the West is getting its fair share, and Dublin is not getting it all.

That's the number of cases doubled in a day, although Italy is the main cause.

Also student in QUB likely with virus, who went to class! That could be problematic.

Only online now. Where in the West of the country?

Westport

That's West aright.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 09:44:11 AM
Outside China, Italy and Iran the second strain appears weaker and is just the flu. No real death rate at all in other countries bar these ones.

Panic over.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on March 05, 2020, 09:49:29 AM
You couldn't make it up the level of incompetency surrounding one of these cases, their place of work is the last place you'd want someone with the virus to be.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Geoff Tipps on March 05, 2020, 09:49:58 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2020, 10:05:47 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on March 04, 2020, 09:34:43 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on March 04, 2020, 08:46:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2020, 08:24:41 PM
More cases in the West of Ireland, 4 people all of whom were in Italy.
A least the West is getting its fair share, and Dublin is not getting it all.

That's the number of cases doubled in a day, although Italy is the main cause.

Also student in QUB likely with virus, who went to class! That could be problematic.

Only online now. Where in the West of the country?

Westport

That's West aright.

Lahinch, Clare
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 05, 2020, 10:01:24 AM
Quote from: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 09:44:11 AM
Outside China, Italy and Iran the second strain appears weaker and is just the flu. No real death rate at all in other countries bar these ones.

Panic over.

Seriously you should get in contact with WHO.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 10:17:12 AM
QuoteSeriously you should get in contact with WHO.

I'm sure they can do the maths, in the other 100 or so infected countries there are 34 deaths so far. That includes merica where 11 have happened. If you need to still panic over those numbers then panic away.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 05, 2020, 10:39:27 AM
Quote from: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 09:44:11 AM
Outside China, Italy and Iran the second strain appears weaker and is just the flu. No real death rate at all in other countries bar these ones.

Panic over.

Please shut up. Its idiots like you with incorrect opinions like yours that is going to do a lot of harm in slowing this down.


South Korea: 35 dead, 41 recovered = 46%
Japan: 6 dead, 43 recovered = 12%
France: 4 dead, 12 recovered = 25%
Spain: 2 dead, 2 recovered = 50%
US: 11 dead, 8 recovered =58%


The one bright spot is Singapore, with 110 cases they have recovered 78 people with no deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 05, 2020, 10:43:17 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 05, 2020, 10:39:27 AM
Quote from: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 09:44:11 AM
Outside China, Italy and Iran the second strain appears weaker and is just the flu. No real death rate at all in other countries bar these ones.

Panic over.

Please shut up. Its idiots like you with incorrect opinions like yours that is going to do a lot of harm in slowing this down.


South Korea: 35 dead, 41 recovered = 46%
Japan: 6 dead, 43 recovered = 12%
France: 4 dead, 12 recovered = 25%
Spain: 2 dead, 2 recovered = 50%
US: 11 dead, 8 recovered =58%

The above % obviously dont count those that are in recovery mode

How long does it take to recover?

For recovery is there certain types of medication being taken or is it only hospitals that can provide the medication?

With governments predicting high instances of people getting the virus surely that is the type of information that is vital now considering it cannot be contained?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 05, 2020, 10:47:00 AM
Quote from: Taylor on March 05, 2020, 10:43:17 AM
The above % obviously dont count those that are in recovery mode

Nor do they count the number who won't recover but are not yet dead.

That is the entire point of using those rather than "number of cases".

Now - its probably fair to say there will be a lag of a week or two between any given patient passing their individual "lowest point" (which may be death) and recovery - which would mean recovered does lag dead by that time period.


There is also a time period between someone being admitted and them reaching their lowest point. So taking (say) the Italian dead figure of 107, but then including all admissions yesterday (~1000 people) in determining the death rate (i.e. 107/3089) is completely bogus -- and even that is 3%!!!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 10:51:10 AM
QuotePlease shut up. Its idiots like you with incorrect opinions like yours that is going to do a lot of harm in slowing this down.

QuoteSouth Korea: 35 dead, 41 recovered = 46%


Outside China, Italy and Iran (and South Korea) the second strain appears weaker and is just the flu. No real death rate at all in other countries bar these ones.

Clearly I left out SK in the figures.

Death rate at 35 for the other 100 countries is very very low and the panic and snowflakitus in relation to this is ridiculous.


Total deaths 3300


China 3020
SK 35
Iran 107
Italy 107
Total = 3269

Total outside the above is 3300-3269 = 31

When people like you are proven wrong when facts are pointed out to them the standard reply is "shut up".

Fair enough we need to slow the thing down, but less of the "killer flu" talk would help. Balance and perspective is needed. This intense talk and daily negative news reels on the thing is not good for the soul.










Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 05, 2020, 10:52:32 AM
Quote from: Taylor on March 05, 2020, 10:43:17 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 05, 2020, 10:39:27 AM
Quote from: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 09:44:11 AM
Outside China, Italy and Iran the second strain appears weaker and is just the flu. No real death rate at all in other countries bar these ones.

Panic over.

Please shut up. Its idiots like you with incorrect opinions like yours that is going to do a lot of harm in slowing this down.


South Korea: 35 dead, 41 recovered = 46%
Japan: 6 dead, 43 recovered = 12%
France: 4 dead, 12 recovered = 25%
Spain: 2 dead, 2 recovered = 50%
US: 11 dead, 8 recovered =58%

The above % obviously dont count those that are in recovery mode

How long does it take to recover?

For recovery is there certain types of medication being taken or is it only hospitals that can provide the medication?

With governments predicting high instances of people getting the virus surely that is the type of information that is vital now considering it cannot be contained?

There's no medication to treat Coronavirus other than staying hydrated, eating healthy and giving your body what it needs to fight.  In 80%.of cases it is considered mild. However, those who have underlying health issues such as elderly folk, COPD, Asthma, diabetes etc they are much more likely to develop severe symptoms and may require hospitalisation because their lungs cannot cope with the virus as well. Therefore they may need assistance via a respirator to breathe properly.

The government's across the world I feel have shown a serious level of neglect. It's been a case of "oh we will do something about it when it comes here". It was always coming and they did the bare minimum.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 05, 2020, 10:57:05 AM
Quote from: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 10:51:10 AM
QuotePlease shut up. Its idiots like you with incorrect opinions like yours that is going to do a lot of harm in slowing this down.

QuoteSouth Korea: 35 dead, 41 recovered = 46%

Outside China, Italy and Iran (and South Korea) the second strain appears weaker and is just the flu. No real death rate at all in other countries bar these ones.

Do you understand what % mortality means?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 05, 2020, 10:57:29 AM
   https://www.ft.com/content/ed3fb63e-41ce-11ea-bdb5-169ba7be433d

   Covid-19 is transmitted more readily between humans than Sars, though it is less virulent. Computer modelling suggests that each new case infected 2.5 other people on average in the early stages of the epidemic, though Chinese authorities have greatly reduced this "reproduction number" through drastic action to isolate cases and trace their contacts.

The virus has caused severe respiratory disease in about 20 per cent of patients and killed more than 3 per cent of confirmed cases. Sars killed 10 per cent of infected individuals. Older people, whose immune defences have declined with age, and those with underlying health conditions are much more vulnerable than the young.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 10:58:19 AM
QuoteThe government's across the world I feel have shown a serious level of neglect. It's been a case of "oh we will do something about it when it comes here". It was always coming and they did the bare minimum.

They managed to keep the death rate so far (based on the cases reported) to 1.3% compared to 3.5% in the highly infected areas. Please expand on the neglect?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 05, 2020, 10:59:16 AM
Quote from: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 10:51:10 AM
When people like you are proven wrong when facts are pointed out to them the standard reply is "shut up".

These are "facts" in the Donald Trump mode of facts.

Unfortunately, this is too important for blatantly incorrect and misguided views such as yours be allowed space to be considered credible. They are not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 05, 2020, 11:09:24 AM
Death rate is 2-3%.

Everyone should dial down the hysteria. People cancelling holidays etc. Complete madness.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 05, 2020, 11:18:02 AM
Quote from: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 10:58:19 AM
QuoteThe government's across the world I feel have shown a serious level of neglect. It's been a case of "oh we will do something about it when it comes here". It was always coming and they did the bare minimum.

They managed to keep the death rate so far (based on the cases reported) to 1.3% compared to 3.5% in the highly infected areas. Please expand on the neglect?

Two days ago the government were not even doing and screening tests for the virus at airports. Screening people for the virus would at least be a proactive approach.

The death rates were always going to be lower in less effected areas ffs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 05, 2020, 11:21:19 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 05, 2020, 11:09:24 AM
Death rate is 2-3%.

Which is astronomically high (and I'm not even sure its that low), but its definitely north of 1%.

But taking that number - that is between 1 in 30 and 1 in 50.


Many have indirect families (parents/inlaws/nephews/nieces/uncles/aunts) well in excess of 50.
Everyone will have a network of more than 200 people (between work, family & social lives) that they know.

At those odds, if it spreads out - then everyone will lose at least one person, probably several people, to this.


There are 38 users on the board right now. If this spreads out and gets to everyone, then at those odds one of them won't be here next year due to Corona virus.



edit: Clarity between mortality rate and infections
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 11:22:07 AM
QuoteEveryone should dial down the hysteria. People cancelling holidays etc. Complete madness.

I'm not trying to diminish the thing in any way but looking at the numbers (which is crude) and then comparing it to the level of hysteria the level of panic and hysteria is disproportionate, that's all I'm saying.

If people want to maintain a level of hysteria and panic then feel free but coming on here to do it is inappropriate as the vast majority of posters are level headed individuals who don't do hysterics.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 11:23:27 AM
QuoteThe death rates were always going to be lower in less effected areas ffs.
::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 05, 2020, 11:23:49 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 05, 2020, 11:21:19 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 05, 2020, 11:09:24 AM
Death rate is 2-3%.

Which is astronomically high (and I'm not even sure its that low), but its definitely north of 1%.

But taking that number - that is between 1 in 30 and 1 in 50.


Many have indirect families (parents/inlaws/nephews/nieces/uncles/aunts) well in excess of 50.
Everyone will have a network of more than 200 people (between work, family & social lives) that they know.

Odds are at that rate that everyone will lose at least one person, probably several people, to this.
This assumes that literally everyone catches it.  A huge assumption.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 05, 2020, 11:25:02 AM
Quote from: five points on March 05, 2020, 11:23:49 AM
This assumes that literally everyone catches it.  A huge assumption.

Yeah, sorry, was in the midst of editing it to clarify that when you posted.

But if the "horse on" brigade have their way, then it likely will reach most of the population.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 05, 2020, 11:30:14 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 05, 2020, 11:21:19 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 05, 2020, 11:09:24 AM
Death rate is 2-3%.

Which is astronomically high (and I'm not even sure its that low), but its definitely north of 1%.

But taking that number - that is between 1 in 30 and 1 in 50.


Many have indirect families (parents/inlaws/nephews/nieces/uncles/aunts) well in excess of 50.
Everyone will have a network of more than 200 people (between work, family & social lives) that they know.

At those odds, if it spreads out - then everyone will lose at least one person, probably several people, to this.


There are 38 users on the board right now. If this spreads out and gets to everyone, then at those odds one of them won't be here next year due to Corona virus.



edit: Clarity between mortality rate and infections

When I went to school 2% was 2 in 100.
Most of those people have underlying health conditions and are aged. It is not some super killer disease that wipes everyone out.
 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 05, 2020, 11:31:35 AM
Quote from: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 11:23:27 AM
QuoteThe death rates were always going to be lower in less effected areas ffs.
::)

Has nothing to do with what the government has been doing. Read the earlier pages of this topic to find out why.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 05, 2020, 11:47:58 AM
Quote from: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 10:17:12 AM
QuoteSeriously you should get in contact with WHO.

I'm sure they can do the maths, in the other 100 or so infected countries there are 34 deaths so far. That includes merica where 11 have happened. If you need to still panic over those numbers then panic away.

You not good with percentages of those affected!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on March 05, 2020, 11:49:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 05, 2020, 11:09:24 AM
Death rate is 2-3%.

Everyone should dial down the hysteria. People cancelling holidays etc. Complete madness.

That is double or three times the death rate associated with the flu - that is a significant impact.  Think about it, instead of 1 in 100, it is 1 in 50 or 1 in 30.  Starts to feel a bit closer to home when you get into those kind of ratios.  Among the vulnerable population, that is an even greater impact.  People are right to be worried - because behind this figure will be a huge number needing hospital admissions and if the health service cannot cope, then it creates a heightened risk of bad patient outcomes.   

You are right about hysteria being unhelpful, but as I said earlier, the panic could develop just as organically as the disease itself and with it, a greater risk of a systemic breakdown health systems and other public services.  One issue could feed off the other and that's the bit that would concern me. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Boycey on March 05, 2020, 12:01:01 PM
I'd be surprised if the World Health Organization aren't following this thread to keep themselves informed...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 05, 2020, 12:02:44 PM
Quote from: Boycey on March 05, 2020, 12:01:01 PM
I'd be surprised if the World Health Organization aren't following this thread to keep themselves informed...

Certainly when calculating percentages they should definitely refer here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on March 05, 2020, 12:06:24 PM
Quote from: Boycey on March 05, 2020, 12:01:01 PM
I'd be surprised if the World Health Organization aren't following this thread to keep themselves informed...

:D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 05, 2020, 12:09:58 PM
There are "entrepreneurs" cashing in on NYC streets now, selling disinfecting wipes and small bottles of hand sanitizers and N95 respirators for huge mark-ups. Getting hard to find this stuff now in the chemists or supermarkets, with empty shelves where they'd usually be. And the virus has barely hit NYC yet!

Its hard to find N95s even online now (I know this because I've a professional interest). This is despite appeals that their effectiveness for the average citizen is minimal and pleas not to eat into the supplies needed for medical professionals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 05, 2020, 12:20:44 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 05, 2020, 11:18:02 AM
Quote from: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 10:58:19 AM
QuoteThe government's across the world I feel have shown a serious level of neglect. It's been a case of "oh we will do something about it when it comes here". It was always coming and they did the bare minimum.

They managed to keep the death rate so far (based on the cases reported) to 1.3% compared to 3.5% in the highly infected areas. Please expand on the neglect?

Two days ago the government were not even doing and screening tests for the virus at airports. Screening people for the virus would at least be a proactive approach.

The death rates were always going to be lower in less effected areas ffs.

How do you screen for the virus at an airport?

I thought they had to take swabs from your mouth and nose and then the tests take 4 to 5 hours.....

don't think that's practical to introduce at an airport.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 05, 2020, 12:22:49 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 05, 2020, 12:20:44 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 05, 2020, 11:18:02 AM
Quote from: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 10:58:19 AM
QuoteThe government's across the world I feel have shown a serious level of neglect. It's been a case of "oh we will do something about it when it comes here". It was always coming and they did the bare minimum.

They managed to keep the death rate so far (based on the cases reported) to 1.3% compared to 3.5% in the highly infected areas. Please expand on the neglect?

Two days ago the government were not even doing and screening tests for the virus at airports. Screening people for the virus would at least be a proactive approach.

The death rates were always going to be lower in less effected areas ffs.

How do you screen for the virus at an airport?

I thought they had to take swabs from your mouth and nose and then the tests take 4 to 5 hours.....

don't think that's practical to introduce at an airport.

They aren't screening for the virus, you have to go in front of a temperature recording device. Pretty basic considering you can have this and not show and symptoms, but what else can you do bar total lockdown of freedom of movement.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hereiam on March 05, 2020, 12:23:14 PM
good way to get a DNA profile of everyone
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ballinaman on March 05, 2020, 12:23:32 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 05, 2020, 10:52:32 AM
Quote from: Taylor on March 05, 2020, 10:43:17 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 05, 2020, 10:39:27 AM
Quote from: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 09:44:11 AM
Outside China, Italy and Iran the second strain appears weaker and is just the flu. No real death rate at all in other countries bar these ones.

Panic over.

Please shut up. Its idiots like you with incorrect opinions like yours that is going to do a lot of harm in slowing this down.


South Korea: 35 dead, 41 recovered = 46%
Japan: 6 dead, 43 recovered = 12%
France: 4 dead, 12 recovered = 25%
Spain: 2 dead, 2 recovered = 50%
US: 11 dead, 8 recovered =58%

The above % obviously dont count those that are in recovery mode

How long does it take to recover?

For recovery is there certain types of medication being taken or is it only hospitals that can provide the medication?

With governments predicting high instances of people getting the virus surely that is the type of information that is vital now considering it cannot be contained?

There's no medication to treat Coronavirus other than staying hydrated, eating healthy and giving your body what it needs to fight.  In 80%.of cases it is considered mild. However, those who have underlying health issues such as elderly folk, COPD, Asthma, diabetes etc they are much more likely to develop severe symptoms and may require hospitalisation because their lungs cannot cope with the virus as well. Therefore they may need assistance via a respirator to breathe properly.

The government's across the world I feel have shown a serious level of neglect. It's been a case of "oh we will do something about it when it comes here". It was always coming and they did the bare minimum.
Same type of meds used to treat malaria has been used in China and has been successful in slowing down the aggressiveness of the virus in infected people...giving more time for antibodies to work and recover.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 05, 2020, 12:29:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 05, 2020, 11:30:14 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 05, 2020, 11:21:19 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 05, 2020, 11:09:24 AM
Death rate is 2-3%.
But taking that number - that is between 1 in 30 and 1 in 50.

When I went to school 2% was 2 in 100.

:o

1 in 30 = 3 in 90; 3/90  ~=3%
1 in 50 = 2 in 100; 2/100 = 2%


Where did you go to school?  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 05, 2020, 12:41:22 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2020/03/04/coronavirus-has-mutated-aggressive-disease-say-scientists/

Researchers at Peking University's School of Life Sciences and the Institut Pasteur of Shanghai, discovered the virus has evolved into two major lineages - dubbed 'L' and 'S' types.

The older 'S-type' appears to be milder and less infectious, while the 'L-type' which emerged later, spreads quickly and currently accounts for around 70 per cent of cases.

Genetic analysis of a man in the US who tested positive on January 21, also showed it is possible to be infected with both types.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 05, 2020, 12:49:08 PM
Willy shaking hands with all the royalists in Galway. Maybe it was him that brought the virus to the West. Dirty scrubber.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 05, 2020, 12:49:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 05, 2020, 12:41:22 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2020/03/04/coronavirus-has-mutated-aggressive-disease-say-scientists/

Researchers at Peking University's School of Life Sciences and the Institut Pasteur of Shanghai, discovered the virus has evolved into two major lineages - dubbed 'L' and 'S' types.

The older 'S-type' appears to be milder and less infectious, while the 'L-type' which emerged later, spreads quickly and currently accounts for around 70 per cent of cases.

Genetic analysis of a man in the US who tested positive on January 21, also showed it is possible to be infected with both types.

All hail HighOrLow!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on March 05, 2020, 12:59:07 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 05, 2020, 12:22:49 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 05, 2020, 12:20:44 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 05, 2020, 11:18:02 AM
Quote from: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 10:58:19 AM
QuoteThe government's across the world I feel have shown a serious level of neglect. It's been a case of "oh we will do something about it when it comes here". It was always coming and they did the bare minimum.

They managed to keep the death rate so far (based on the cases reported) to 1.3% compared to 3.5% in the highly infected areas. Please expand on the neglect?

Two days ago the government were not even doing and screening tests for the virus at airports. Screening people for the virus would at least be a proactive approach.

The death rates were always going to be lower in less effected areas ffs.

How do you screen for the virus at an airport?

I thought they had to take swabs from your mouth and nose and then the tests take 4 to 5 hours.....

don't think that's practical to introduce at an airport.

They aren't screening for the virus, you have to go in front of a temperature recording device. Pretty basic considering you can have this and not show and symptoms, but what else can you do bar total lockdown of freedom of movement.

Temperature screening is fairly pointless on its own, most people with a high temperature wouldn't have this virus so you'd be scanning hundreds of thousands of people/day, several thousand of whom may have a high temperature - what do you do with those people then? Say they can't travel until you complete an actual test for the virus on them? It would be completely unworkable as far as I can see

On the whole, I think the health authorities are doing a reasonably good job. They're taking precautions rather than panicing (it's not like the last time of snow where you couldn't buy bread in the shops!!). Doing less wouldn't be a good idea imo because we don't know enough about this virus yet and there is no cure.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 05, 2020, 01:02:10 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 05, 2020, 12:59:07 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 05, 2020, 12:22:49 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 05, 2020, 12:20:44 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 05, 2020, 11:18:02 AM
Quote from: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 10:58:19 AM
QuoteThe government's across the world I feel have shown a serious level of neglect. It's been a case of "oh we will do something about it when it comes here". It was always coming and they did the bare minimum.

They managed to keep the death rate so far (based on the cases reported) to 1.3% compared to 3.5% in the highly infected areas. Please expand on the neglect?

Two days ago the government were not even doing and screening tests for the virus at airports. Screening people for the virus would at least be a proactive approach.

The death rates were always going to be lower in less effected areas ffs.

How do you screen for the virus at an airport?

I thought they had to take swabs from your mouth and nose and then the tests take 4 to 5 hours.....

don't think that's practical to introduce at an airport.

They aren't screening for the virus, you have to go in front of a temperature recording device. Pretty basic considering you can have this and not show and symptoms, but what else can you do bar total lockdown of freedom of movement.

Temperature screening is fairly pointless on its own, most people with a high temperature wouldn't have this virus so you'd be scanning hundreds of thousands of people/day, several thousand of whom may have a high temperature - what do you do with those people then? Say they can't travel until you complete an actual test for the virus on them? It would be completely unworkable as far as I can see

On the whole, I think the health authorities are doing a reasonably good job. They're taking precautions rather than panicing (it's not like the last time of snow where you couldn't buy bread in the shops!!). Doing less wouldn't be a good idea imo because we don't know enough about this virus yet and there is no cure.

Find it hard to argue with you, but in this world and the claim culture - there'll be someone who tries to take up a Govt or local authority for not implementing measures.

Realistically, this is the only one they can do....I'd imagine it's lip service.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 05, 2020, 01:06:37 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 05, 2020, 12:22:49 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 05, 2020, 12:20:44 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 05, 2020, 11:18:02 AM
Quote from: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 10:58:19 AM
QuoteThe government's across the world I feel have shown a serious level of neglect. It's been a case of "oh we will do something about it when it comes here". It was always coming and they did the bare minimum.

They managed to keep the death rate so far (based on the cases reported) to 1.3% compared to 3.5% in the highly infected areas. Please expand on the neglect?

Two days ago the government were not even doing and screening tests for the virus at airports. Screening people for the virus would at least be a proactive approach.

The death rates were always going to be lower in less effected areas ffs.

How do you screen for the virus at an airport?

I thought they had to take swabs from your mouth and nose and then the tests take 4 to 5 hours.....

don't think that's practical to introduce at an airport.

They aren't screening for the virus, you have to go in front of a temperature recording device. Pretty basic considering you can have this and not show and symptoms, but what else can you do bar total lockdown of freedom of movement.

Exactly.

What they're doing is checking whether you've a raised temperature which can be caused by a myriad of issues including the common cold. Do you put people off a flight because they've the common cold?

You could be carrying the Corona virus and your temperature would be fine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 05, 2020, 01:16:39 PM
The scepticism is understandable but the flippancy about effects being only 'flu like' would concern me. I had a particularly nasty  flu 7/8 years ago that took a fancy to my liver, I was off work for 3-4 weeks,  had bouts of delirium, was lying down for quick naps and waking up 6-8 hours later in disbelief I'd been asleep for so long, my wife was extremely worried for a few days when it peaked. I was as weak as water for quite a while afterwards as well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 05, 2020, 01:39:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 05, 2020, 01:06:37 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 05, 2020, 12:22:49 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 05, 2020, 12:20:44 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 05, 2020, 11:18:02 AM
Quote from: highorlow on March 05, 2020, 10:58:19 AM
QuoteThe government's across the world I feel have shown a serious level of neglect. It's been a case of "oh we will do something about it when it comes here". It was always coming and they did the bare minimum.

They managed to keep the death rate so far (based on the cases reported) to 1.3% compared to 3.5% in the highly infected areas. Please expand on the neglect?

Two days ago the government were not even doing and screening tests for the virus at airports. Screening people for the virus would at least be a proactive approach.

The death rates were always going to be lower in less effected areas ffs.

How do you screen for the virus at an airport?

I thought they had to take swabs from your mouth and nose and then the tests take 4 to 5 hours.....

don't think that's practical to introduce at an airport.

They aren't screening for the virus, you have to go in front of a temperature recording device. Pretty basic considering you can have this and not show and symptoms, but what else can you do bar total lockdown of freedom of movement.

Exactly.

What they're doing is checking whether you've a raised temperature which can be caused by a myriad of issues including the common cold. Do you put people off a flight because they've the common cold?

You could be carrying the Corona virus and your temperature would be fine.

As I understand it, no country is checking temperatures on the way out. Only the way in. In line with the WHO advice that there is no issue with travel.

I flew recently and was not subject to any temperature check upon arrival back into Dublin - but I was checked upon entry to where I went.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tyrdub on March 05, 2020, 04:13:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2020, 08:24:41 PM
More cases in the West of Ireland, 4 people all of whom were in Italy.
A least the West is getting its fair share, and Dublin is not getting it all.

That's the number of cases doubled in a day, although Italy is the main cause.

Also student in QUB likely with virus, who went to class! That could be problematic.

they didn't go to class
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 05, 2020, 04:16:37 PM
Quote from: Tyrdub on March 05, 2020, 04:13:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2020, 08:24:41 PM
More cases in the West of Ireland, 4 people all of whom were in Italy.
A least the West is getting its fair share, and Dublin is not getting it all.

That's the number of cases doubled in a day, although Italy is the main cause.

Also student in QUB likely with virus, who went to class! That could be problematic.

they didn't go to class

Never bothered much with it myself at Uni
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tyrdub on March 05, 2020, 04:17:31 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 05, 2020, 04:16:37 PM
Quote from: Tyrdub on March 05, 2020, 04:13:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 04, 2020, 08:24:41 PM
More cases in the West of Ireland, 4 people all of whom were in Italy.
A least the West is getting its fair share, and Dublin is not getting it all.

That's the number of cases doubled in a day, although Italy is the main cause.

Also student in QUB likely with virus, who went to class! That could be problematic.

they didn't go to class

Never bothered much with it myself at Uni

oh ha ha
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 05, 2020, 06:54:21 PM
Cork in on the act now, but no connection with Italy.  >:(
Seal off Munster, now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 05, 2020, 07:55:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 05, 2020, 06:54:21 PM
Cork in on the act now, but no connection with Italy.  >:(
Seal off Munster, now.

Pretty strange if you ask me. Probably more than him have it down there so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2020, 08:25:53 PM
PL monitoring it now and could well cancel rest of league
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on March 05, 2020, 09:09:16 PM
7 more in the Republic today. 3 in the North.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on March 05, 2020, 09:33:05 PM
It is all kicking off now. Up to 13 cases in the republic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 05, 2020, 10:21:30 PM
So why wasn't the airports essentially shutdown 4 weeks ago?

Would cause a helluva lot less trouble than this is going to cause.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 05, 2020, 10:25:12 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 05, 2020, 10:21:30 PM
So why wasn't the airports essentially shutdown 4 weeks ago?

Would cause a helluva lot less trouble than this is going to cause.

Yup. My thoughts exactly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 05, 2020, 10:57:28 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 05, 2020, 10:25:12 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 05, 2020, 10:21:30 PM
So why wasn't the airports essentially shutdown 4 weeks ago?

Would cause a helluva lot less trouble than this is going to cause.

Yup. My thoughts exactly.

But why stop there.... when you could close down a whole country  instead?

Except you can't.

People always need water, food, heat/fuel, shelter. They occasionally need medicine and medical care. They don't need human interaction (even broadband interaction might suffice) per se, but will slowly crawl up the walls without it, creating mental health issues. Education isn't essential, but childminding when schools are closed, is. And the sad reality of life is that you need to earn money to pay for all of the above.

When you're asking "why didn't they just shut down this single essential service?", it's not that simple. Is it the role of government to arbitrarily decide which services (and therefore jobs) remain fully open, partially open, or closed? How do they decide this? How do they decide which livelihoods to f**k with entirely, partially, or not at all? But more importantly, why would they set the wheels in motion for society falling apart?  For if you close air travel, you must close ports. You close ports, you kill haulage. You kill haulage, you kill every retail industry eventually, and some overnight. Who pays all the people affected? Can we really expect our lazy over-entitled public sector to stand up and make, then implement an emergency plan to ensure that families aren't financially destroyed? I mean they'll be the only ones left working within a few weeks. Except there's no fuel in petrol stations, no food in the shops. So even if they want to go to work, they can't. And at that point, why administer payments to anyone anyway? What are they going to buy?



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 05, 2020, 11:03:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 05, 2020, 10:57:28 PM
When you're asking "why didn't they just shut down this single essential service?", it's not that simple. Is is the role of government to arbitrarily decide which services (and therefore jobs) remain fully open, partially open, or closed? How do they decide this? How do they decide which livelihoods to f**k with entirely, partially, or not at all?

They should f**k with the livelihoods of activities which significantly promote transmission of disease, and do not provide a service you cannot do without.  There is a balance of course, and things are still under control, but definite measures may be needed for a few weeks in due course.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 05, 2020, 11:07:27 PM
Killer virus comes to town near you. Panic you lemming.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 05, 2020, 11:13:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 05, 2020, 11:03:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 05, 2020, 10:57:28 PM
When you're asking "why didn't they just shut down this single essential service?", it's not that simple. Is is the role of government to arbitrarily decide which services (and therefore jobs) remain fully open, partially open, or closed? How do they decide this? How do they decide which livelihoods to f**k with entirely, partially, or not at all?

They should f**k with the livelihoods of activities which significantly promote transmission of disease, and do not provide a service you cannot do without.  There is a balance of course, and things are still under control, but definite measures may be needed for a few weeks in due course.

We live in a world that is absolutely and utterly connected.

"Significantly promote transmission of disease".

Have you ever observed how quickly the common cold spreads throughout a nursery school / early primary school class?

This doesn't happen because a group of them are subjected to it from external activities. One of them connects with it, and spreads it to those they meet.

So if one haulier, one diplomat, one international footballer, one priest, one relative coming back from a funeral on a helicopter or yacht, one whoever, arrives back from their "essential duties" abroad, and is infected, it will spread.

Maybe not as quickly as with having airports open, but it will spread.

The only way to stop it spreading is to stop it coming in. Except you can't do that in the modern world. No matter how hard you try.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aaron Boone on March 05, 2020, 11:24:24 PM
Russians very quiet in all of this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 06, 2020, 12:02:28 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 05, 2020, 11:13:04 PM

We live in a world that is absolutely and utterly connected.

"Significantly promote transmission of disease".

Have you ever observed how quickly the common cold spreads throughout a nursery school / early primary school class?

This doesn't happen because a group of them are subjected to it from external activities. One of them connects with it, and spreads it to those they meet.

So if one haulier, one diplomat, one international footballer, one priest, one relative coming back from a funeral on a helicopter or yacht, one whoever, arrives back from their "essential duties" abroad, and is infected, it will spread.

Maybe not as quickly as with having airports open, but it will spread.

The only way to stop it spreading is to stop it coming in. Except you can't do that in the modern world. No matter how hard you try.

"not as quickly" is something worth having. As long as the numbers remain low enough for people to be treated then the death rate will be low. If it exceeds what the health service can cope with then the death rate will be a multiple of this and many people will die needlessly. Singapore is an example of place open for business that has kept things under control.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 06, 2020, 08:48:32 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 05, 2020, 11:03:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 05, 2020, 10:57:28 PM
When you're asking "why didn't they just shut down this single essential service?", it's not that simple. Is is the role of government to arbitrarily decide which services (and therefore jobs) remain fully open, partially open, or closed? How do they decide this? How do they decide which livelihoods to f**k with entirely, partially, or not at all?

They should f**k with the livelihoods of activities which significantly promote transmission of disease, and do not provide a service you cannot do without.  There is a balance of course, and things are still under control, but definite measures may be needed for a few weeks in due course.

Where do you draw the line? Close the ports also, no? Cancel all buses, trains, schools, cinema's, sporting events, religious gatherings, supermarkets...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 06, 2020, 08:54:52 AM
 .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 06, 2020, 09:30:35 AM
Closing the airports is a no go. It's not even an option. It's not on the table lads. We are not at war or cutting ourselves off North Korean style.

https://www.who.int/ith/2019-nCoV_advice_for_international_traffic-rev/en/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 06, 2020, 09:44:49 AM
Sure it's just the flu!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 06, 2020, 09:54:24 AM
Oh great it's the Grim Reaper again....

I couldn't be bothered with you today lad. If you want to spread more doom and gloom go elsewhere as I'm not buying it.

As of this morning the instructions from the WHO are still to wash your hands, maintain social distance, practise respiratory hygiene and if you have a cough or fever seek medical help to help stem the spread. Not exactly defcon 1 advice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 06, 2020, 10:23:25 AM
Not exactly the flu either - have you copped on to that yet?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 06, 2020, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 06, 2020, 10:23:25 AM
Not exactly the flu either - have you copped on to that yet?

Keep banging the death knell lad. Doesn't make it the end of days you long for.

Life can't be that bad for you, you actively want this to be as serious as you are making out.

I suggest getting off the internet and going outside, it's wonderful - does a lot of the mind to get out and about, gives a positive perspective on life.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 06, 2020, 10:37:18 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 06, 2020, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 06, 2020, 10:23:25 AM
Not exactly the flu either - have you copped on to that yet?

Keep banging the death knell lad. Doesn't make it the end of days you long for.

Life can't be that bad for you, you actively want this to be as serious as you are making out.

I suggest getting off the internet and going outside, it's wonderful - does a lot of the mind to get out and about, gives a positive perspective on life.

Wtf are you talking about you head is so far up your own arse you don't realise the crap you are spouting - lets be clear lad you made a tool of yourself trying to be the big man saying its just the flu - sick quoting you on it, I pointed out it is not - where are I saying its the end of days, acknowledge you made a **** of yourself trying to be the smart man and move on, you know f**k all about me but I do know you were found out and you haven't the balls to say opps maybe it is more serious than the flu, instead you are ranting and making shite up - cop yourself on you halfwit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 06, 2020, 10:42:04 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 06, 2020, 10:37:18 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 06, 2020, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 06, 2020, 10:23:25 AM
Not exactly the flu either - have you copped on to that yet?

Keep banging the death knell lad. Doesn't make it the end of days you long for.

Life can't be that bad for you, you actively want this to be as serious as you are making out.

I suggest getting off the internet and going outside, it's wonderful - does a lot of the mind to get out and about, gives a positive perspective on life.

Wtf are you talking about you head is so far up your own arse you don't realise the crap you are spouting - lets be clear lad you made a tool of yourself trying to be the big man saying its just the flu - sick quoting you on it, I pointed out it is not - where are I saying its the end of days, acknowledge you made a **** of yourself trying to be the smart man and move on, you know f**k all about me but I do know you were found out and you haven't the balls to say opps maybe it is more serious than the flu, instead you are ranting and making shite up - cop yourself on you halfwit.

You have massive problems. We'll leave it at that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 06, 2020, 10:52:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 06, 2020, 08:48:32 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 05, 2020, 11:03:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 05, 2020, 10:57:28 PM
When you're asking "why didn't they just shut down this single essential service?", it's not that simple. Is is the role of government to arbitrarily decide which services (and therefore jobs) remain fully open, partially open, or closed? How do they decide this? How do they decide which livelihoods to f**k with entirely, partially, or not at all?

They should f**k with the livelihoods of activities which significantly promote transmission of disease, and do not provide a service you cannot do without.  There is a balance of course, and things are still under control, but definite measures may be needed for a few weeks in due course.

Where do you draw the line? Close the ports also, no? Cancel all buses, trains, schools, cinema's, sporting events, religious gatherings, supermarkets...

This list includes ports, supermarkets etc which are necessary for people to eat and cinemas which are not essential. It isn't reasonable to close supermarkets for this virus, but it may be reasonable to close cinemas. Places like Singapore have had transmission in churches and no longer have big services, but their economy is still operating. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 06, 2020, 11:01:29 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 06, 2020, 10:42:04 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 06, 2020, 10:37:18 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 06, 2020, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 06, 2020, 10:23:25 AM
Not exactly the flu either - have you copped on to that yet?

Keep banging the death knell lad. Doesn't make it the end of days you long for.

Life can't be that bad for you, you actively want this to be as serious as you are making out.

I suggest getting off the internet and going outside, it's wonderful - does a lot of the mind to get out and about, gives a positive perspective on life.

Wtf are you talking about you head is so far up your own arse you don't realise the crap you are spouting - lets be clear lad you made a tool of yourself trying to be the big man saying its just the flu - sick quoting you on it, I pointed out it is not - where are I saying its the end of days, acknowledge you made a **** of yourself trying to be the smart man and move on, you know f**k all about me but I do know you were found out and you haven't the balls to say opps maybe it is more serious than the flu, instead you are ranting and making shite up - cop yourself on you halfwit.

You have massive problems. We'll leave it at that.

And you are a complete liar and a coward.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 06, 2020, 11:17:50 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 06, 2020, 10:52:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 06, 2020, 08:48:32 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 05, 2020, 11:03:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 05, 2020, 10:57:28 PM
When you're asking "why didn't they just shut down this single essential service?", it's not that simple. Is is the role of government to arbitrarily decide which services (and therefore jobs) remain fully open, partially open, or closed? How do they decide this? How do they decide which livelihoods to f**k with entirely, partially, or not at all?

They should f**k with the livelihoods of activities which significantly promote transmission of disease, and do not provide a service you cannot do without.  There is a balance of course, and things are still under control, but definite measures may be needed for a few weeks in due course.

Where do you draw the line? Close the ports also, no? Cancel all buses, trains, schools, cinema's, sporting events, religious gatherings, supermarkets...

This list includes ports, supermarkets etc which are necessary for people to eat and cinemas which are not essential. It isn't reasonable to close supermarkets for this virus, but it may be reasonable to close cinemas. Places like Singapore have had transmission in churches and no longer have big services, but their economy is still operating.

If you worked in a supermarket you might think differently.

You're not going to stop the likes of the corona virus, it's really only mitigation at this stage, so protect the elderly and those with underlying respiratory conditions and the rest of us should see it out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Denn Forever on March 06, 2020, 11:20:38 AM
Hospital self isolates.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0306/1120531-coronavirus/https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0306/1120531-coronavirus/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 06, 2020, 11:43:32 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 06, 2020, 11:17:50 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 06, 2020, 10:52:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 06, 2020, 08:48:32 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 05, 2020, 11:03:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 05, 2020, 10:57:28 PM
When you're asking "why didn't they just shut down this single essential service?", it's not that simple. Is is the role of government to arbitrarily decide which services (and therefore jobs) remain fully open, partially open, or closed? How do they decide this? How do they decide which livelihoods to f**k with entirely, partially, or not at all?

They should f**k with the livelihoods of activities which significantly promote transmission of disease, and do not provide a service you cannot do without.  There is a balance of course, and things are still under control, but definite measures may be needed for a few weeks in due course.

Where do you draw the line? Close the ports also, no? Cancel all buses, trains, schools, cinema's, sporting events, religious gatherings, supermarkets...

This list includes ports, supermarkets etc which are necessary for people to eat and cinemas which are not essential. It isn't reasonable to close supermarkets for this virus, but it may be reasonable to close cinemas. Places like Singapore have had transmission in churches and no longer have big services, but their economy is still operating.

If you worked in a supermarket you might think differently.

You're not going to stop the likes of the corona virus, it's really only mitigation at this stage, so protect the elderly and those with underlying respiratory conditions and the rest of us should see it out.

Exactly !!!!!!!!!

All this talk of closing ports and airports and the cinemas and other sporting events is just nuts, England are playing Wales this weekend, France are playing Scotland, the PL is going ahead also, if the Gov thought it was a major threat surely these events wouldn't be going ahead, the biggest racing event of the year also going ahead.


If someone feels they have contracted something then the buck stops with them, self isolate and stay away from those with underlying issues.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on March 06, 2020, 11:47:12 AM
Since 2004 we've had

SARS
AVIAN
SWINE
MERS
ZIKA
EBOLA
CORONA

and a thread on quite a few of them.

As of now there have been approximately 3,500 deaths reported, about the same number of people die daily in car accidents. 

"Sure, it'll save a few lives, but millions will be late!" - Homer Simpson on lowering the speed limit.

Quote from: armaghniac on March 06, 2020, 10:52:13 AM
Places like Singapore have had transmission in churches and no longer have big services, but their economy is still operating.

If everyone avoids going to the cinema, pub .. how would economies keep operating?  If i'm thinking of getting a new tv surely I should avoid going into the local store which would affect the profitability of the business which would impact on staffing numbers, suppliers etc.?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/05/business/stock-market-covid-19.html

I could well be wrong but to me it seems that the threat has been blown out of proportion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 06, 2020, 11:47:19 AM
Will mass be cancelled? A lot of regular mass goers are the older generation and therefore more susceptible to being infected. 

Better cancel the bingo too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 06, 2020, 12:11:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 06, 2020, 11:47:19 AM
Will mass be cancelled? A lot of regular mass goers are the older generation and therefore more susceptible to being infected. 

Better cancel the bingo too.

That would make more sense than closing an airport.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 06, 2020, 12:57:34 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 06, 2020, 11:47:19 AM
Will mass be cancelled? A lot of regular mass goers are the older generation and therefore more susceptible to being infected. 

Better cancel the bingo too.

NO, categorically NO - the church needs the old people for the envelope collection,  they don't give a dam about anything but the money.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on March 06, 2020, 01:21:07 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 06, 2020, 12:57:34 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 06, 2020, 11:47:19 AM
Will mass be cancelled? A lot of regular mass goers are the older generation and therefore more susceptible to being infected. 

Better cancel the bingo too.

NO, categorically NO - the church needs the old people for the envelope collection,  they don't give a dam about anything but the money.

You have talked some volume of shite on this thread
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 06, 2020, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: GJL on March 06, 2020, 01:21:07 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 06, 2020, 12:57:34 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 06, 2020, 11:47:19 AM
Will mass be cancelled? A lot of regular mass goers are the older generation and therefore more susceptible to being infected. 

Better cancel the bingo too.

NO, categorically NO - the church needs the old people for the envelope collection,  they don't give a dam about anything but the money.

You have talked some volume of shite on this thread

Wind your neck in kid, the catholic church is a money hungry organisation, I believe there is a block feature - knock yourself out, by the way quote away - everything I said is factually correct unlike GetOverTheBar telling lies that this is just the flu.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 06, 2020, 01:39:28 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 06, 2020, 11:47:19 AM
Will mass be cancelled? A lot of regular mass goers are the older generation and therefore more susceptible to being infected. 

Better cancel the bingo too.

Can do Mass online anyways! As for the collection the Klubfunder should be put in place so the money is just debited out of your account!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 06, 2020, 01:49:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 06, 2020, 01:39:28 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 06, 2020, 11:47:19 AM
Will mass be cancelled? A lot of regular mass goers are the older generation and therefore more susceptible to being infected. 

Better cancel the bingo too.

Can do Mass online anyways! As for the collection the Klubfunder should be put in place so the money is just debited out of your account!

This is already available.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 06, 2020, 02:24:02 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on March 06, 2020, 11:47:12 AM
Since 2004 we've had

SARS
AVIAN
SWINE
MERS
ZIKA
EBOLA
CORONA

and a thread on quite a few of them.

As of now there have been approximately 3,500 deaths reported, about the same number of people die daily in car accidents. 

"Sure, it'll save a few lives, but millions will be late!" - Homer Simpson on lowering the speed limit.

Quote from: armaghniac on March 06, 2020, 10:52:13 AM
Places like Singapore have had transmission in churches and no longer have big services, but their economy is still operating.

If everyone avoids going to the cinema, pub .. how would economies keep operating?  If i'm thinking of getting a new tv surely I should avoid going into the local store which would affect the profitability of the business which would impact on staffing numbers, suppliers etc.?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/05/business/stock-market-covid-19.html

I could well be wrong but to me it seems that the threat has been blown out of proportion.

I think you're dead right. It's not the rage virus from 28 days later. Most people will recover from it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 06, 2020, 02:45:17 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on March 06, 2020, 11:47:12 AM
If everyone avoids going to the cinema, pub .. how would economies keep operating?  If i'm thinking of getting a new tv surely I should avoid going into the local store which would affect the profitability of the business which would impact on staffing numbers, suppliers etc.?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/05/business/stock-market-covid-19.html

I could well be wrong but to me it seems that the threat has been blown out of proportion.

You sound a bit like Danny Healy-Rae. Exactly how many people should die so you can go to the pub?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 06, 2020, 03:09:32 PM
I have tickets for Wimbledon so the cnuts better not cancel it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 06, 2020, 03:12:57 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 06, 2020, 03:09:32 PM
I have tickets for Wimbledon so the cnuts better not cancel it.

A glass of Pimms and strawberrys will cure ye!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 06, 2020, 03:23:12 PM
Pharmacies in the South have gone demented people are stocking up on everything do they think it's some kind of nuclear holocaust??

People need to calm down there aren't that many people who are high risk!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 06, 2020, 03:28:23 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 06, 2020, 03:23:12 PM
Pharmacies in the South have gone demented people are stocking up on everything do they think it's some kind of nuclear holocaust??

People need to calm down there aren't that many people who are high risk!!

Am sure there is almost 150,000 people over 80 on the island not counting the sick , at a reasonable guesstimate 30,000+.

That would leave almost 200,000 then.

Thats a brave few people who would be worried IF what some say is true about the virus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 06, 2020, 06:06:41 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 06, 2020, 03:09:32 PM
I have tickets for Wimbledon so the cnuts better not cancel it.

You get the lotto? I got the lotto tickets for the final in court one ffs! Sold them on!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 06, 2020, 11:46:19 PM
The man is cracked

https://twitter.com/ddiamond/status/1236055907102011393
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 07, 2020, 02:28:58 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 06, 2020, 11:46:19 PM
The man is cracked

https://twitter.com/ddiamond/status/1236055907102011393

Un-f**king-believable. ::)

WTF has his "perfect" Ukraine letter got to do with Coronavirus (which, according to him, was a hoax a week ago) and the lack of tests?

And according to many reports, especially from Washington state, anyone who needs a test is most certainly NOT currently getting one.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 07, 2020, 09:21:52 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 07, 2020, 02:28:58 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 06, 2020, 11:46:19 PM
The man is cracked

https://twitter.com/ddiamond/status/1236055907102011393

Un-f**king-believable. ::)

WTF has his "perfect" Ukraine letter got to do with Coronavirus (which, according to him, was a hoax a week ago) and the lack of tests?

And according to many reports, especially from Washington state, anyone who needs a test is most certainly NOT currently getting one.

Everything, much amazing, it is perfect, ask anyone, everyone agrees. It is the best letter and the best test.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 07, 2020, 01:25:36 PM
https://talkingpointz.com/coronavirus-get-over-it/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=coronavirus-get-over-it&fbclid=IwAR1gs-L6ub4MRRxa_RsqO2WVWxoVp_Vwkfs4tbs5uCippganXxFpOTxxpHA

Sensible
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 07, 2020, 03:05:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 07, 2020, 01:25:36 PM
https://talkingpointz.com/coronavirus-get-over-it/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=coronavirus-get-over-it&fbclid=IwAR1gs-L6ub4MRRxa_RsqO2WVWxoVp_Vwkfs4tbs5uCippganXxFpOTxxpHA

Sensible

This kind of article is a dangerous mixture of common sense (e.g. masks, toilet roll etc) and nonsense (conflating stats for all of China and Wuhan).
You get a lot of articles along the lines of only x people died in China so we don't need to worry, ignoring that fact that China had a lot of measures in place to ensure that only x people died. It is fine to say that only x% of people in Wuhan got it, but that was enough to collapse the health system there, so the death rate was 4 or 5 times other places.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on March 07, 2020, 03:30:51 PM
People need to watch more Bear Grylls if the first priority is to stock a whole lifetime supply of toilet rolls.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 07, 2020, 03:50:54 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 07, 2020, 03:05:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 07, 2020, 01:25:36 PM
https://talkingpointz.com/coronavirus-get-over-it/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=coronavirus-get-over-it&fbclid=IwAR1gs-L6ub4MRRxa_RsqO2WVWxoVp_Vwkfs4tbs5uCippganXxFpOTxxpHA

Sensible

This kind of article is a dangerous mixture of common sense (e.g. masks, toilet roll etc) and nonsense (conflating stats for all of China and Wuhan).
You get a lot of articles along the lines of only x people died in China so we don't need to worry, ignoring that fact that China had a lot of measures in place to ensure that only x people died. It is fine to say that only x% of people in Wuhan got it, but that was enough to collapse the health system there, so the death rate was 4 or 5 times other places.

So his stats are wrong? We can't all go by one persons view on it, everyone had an opinion he's based his on facts. He's not saying that it's not dangerous it's just not as dangerous as walking up the Shankill with a O'Neills 1916 remembrance top on singing Come out ya Black and Tans
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on March 07, 2020, 08:14:07 PM
We are up to 7 cases in the 6. The latest 3 are all cases are all linked to cases of adults who have from Italy and are linked to a previous confirmed positive case. Ffs don't travel to Italy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 07, 2020, 08:17:46 PM
Met a colleague of the wife's in Tesco last week. He proceeded to tell us he was quarantined from his work as he was just back from Italy >:(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on March 07, 2020, 08:24:48 PM
So quarantined but out shopping? Terrible he should be scooped and put in quarantine  then. No f**k given for others 😠
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 07, 2020, 08:35:19 PM

https://www.ft.com/content/6f7fdbae-4b3b-11ea-95a0-43d18ec715f5

Official censors are already struggling to control the online outpouring of derision and disgust at initial attempts to cover up the disease. One early target for ridicule was the senior health official sent from Beijing to Wuhan to publicly reassure the masses the disease was "preventable and controllable". He contracted the virus himself and has become a symbol of government incompetence and mendacity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 07, 2020, 08:37:51 PM
Work rule as opposed to society one I guess and he claimed. He claimed he was in the south of Italy so it was ok as the outbreak in the north. Infuriating especially when you have a wee baby with you >:(

It will happen a lot I suspect though. I dunno who would enforce a quarantine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 07, 2020, 09:06:59 PM
There should be a form of words that you agree to in quarantine and it should not be in any way socially acceptable to be see out and about
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on March 07, 2020, 09:36:10 PM
WhatsApp rumours tonight that a lad playing for Hannover in Portadown has tested positive for Coronavirus this evening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 07, 2020, 09:43:06 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 07, 2020, 08:17:46 PM
Met a colleague of the wife's in Tesco last week. He proceeded to tell us he was quarantined from his work as he was just back from Italy >:(

Should people who have been in Italy this past 6 weeks not be tested, as of urgency?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 07, 2020, 09:45:50 PM
I would have thought so yeah.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on March 07, 2020, 09:59:00 PM
Is this toilet paper thing happening in Ireland north or south? Or is it just in places like Australia?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on March 07, 2020, 10:39:41 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on March 07, 2020, 09:59:00 PM
Is this toilet paper thing happening in Ireland north or south? Or is it just in places like Australia?
Think it just the crazy Ozzie's.

Panic buying of toilet paper in Australia has caused something weird.  🇦🇺 https://t.co/nHoXncX8iW
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: square_ball on March 07, 2020, 11:04:15 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on March 07, 2020, 09:36:10 PM
WhatsApp rumours tonight that a lad playing for Hannover in Portadown has tested positive for Coronavirus this evening.

Yeah Coagh United have put up a statement. Player was undergoing tests for the virus, played in the match and then in the subsequent hours tests have come back positive.

Edit to add that lurganblue is correct in that it was a player from the portadown club that was playing at Coagh.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 08, 2020, 08:33:59 AM
Quote from: Square Ball on March 07, 2020, 10:39:41 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on March 07, 2020, 09:59:00 PM
Is this toilet paper thing happening in Ireland north or south? Or is it just in places like Australia?
Think it just the crazy Ozzie's.

Panic buying of toilet paper in Australia has caused something weird.  🇦🇺 https://t.co/nHoXncX8iW

https://mobile.twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1236271062159175680
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:12:16 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51787238 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51787238)

Italy taking extreme measures against this oul flu.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:18:56 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:12:16 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51787238 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51787238)

Italy taking extreme measures against this oul flu.

It's a good thing it's not as bad flu like the normal one.

So far, the new coronavirus has led to more than 100,000 illnesses and more than 3,000 deaths worldwide. But that's nothing compared with the flu, also called influenza. In the U.S. alone, the flu has caused an estimated 32 million illnesses, 310,000 hospitalizations and 18,000 deaths this season, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 08, 2020, 10:49:21 AM
More flippancy, this virus is 3 months old.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 08, 2020, 10:50:57 AM
These posts about flu are immature and irresponsible. Flu is everywhere, while Covid 19 is not thankfully everywhere and it has only been going for 6 weeks, so of course the annual world totals for flu are higher.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 08, 2020, 11:03:04 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:18:56 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:12:16 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51787238 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51787238)

Italy taking extreme measures against this oul flu.

It's a good thing it's not as bad flu like the normal one.

So far, the new coronavirus has led to more than 100,000 illnesses and more than 3,000 deaths worldwide. But that's nothing compared with the flu, also called influenza. In the U.S. alone, the flu has caused an estimated 32 million illnesses, 310,000 hospitalizations and 18,000 deaths this season, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

This is a very ill informed comment. If you have read anything about Covid-19 you will know this is nothing like the ordinary flu. It is a fast spreading highly contagious virus with no vaccine. You can't protect people against everything and at least with common flu we have vaccines which mitigate this risk to such a large extent we generally don't give it much thought. The number of victims the common flu claims is still scary as strains of flu mutate and build resistance to that years vaccine which is why there is a new jab each year. If Covid-19 gets on the loose as the common flu has then there is much bigger trouble ahead. Italy is proving testament to that. I hope you have no family or relations that are elderly or have underlying medical problems and are exposed to this. You might have a different outlook then.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Nanderson on March 08, 2020, 11:03:27 AM
I dont understand how you can be unwell/worried enough to get a test for coronavirus yet still think its ok to go and play a game of football?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 08, 2020, 11:16:38 AM
Quote from: Nanderson on March 08, 2020, 11:03:27 AM
I dont understand how you can be unwell/worried enough to get a test for coronavirus yet still think its ok to go and play a game of football?
He wasn't unwell as he was asymptomatic and probably just went as a precautionary measure. Looks like a fool now though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Denn Forever on March 08, 2020, 11:22:58 AM
In the Island next  door, You  can ring 111 and get info on where your nearest pod to get tested is.  Do we have similar number/pod down here?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 08, 2020, 11:29:16 AM
It's much more lethal than the flu
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aaron Boone on March 08, 2020, 12:08:20 PM
Why is Northern Italy so affected, what happened there initially?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dougal Maguire on March 08, 2020, 12:15:38 PM
I think someone brought it in from China
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omagh_gael on March 08, 2020, 12:16:40 PM
This is why Covid19 is so dangerous. This is a modern country with excellent healthcare facilities, they are sending out a stark warning.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-italy-doctors-intensive-care-deaths-a9384356.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirusn
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 08, 2020, 12:19:36 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on March 08, 2020, 12:08:20 PM
Why is Northern Italy so affected, what happened there initially?

It just seems to be down to the fact it was spread to Italy before anyone really starting taking it seriously and spread from there. The genie was out of the bottle. Just unlucky. Could have been anywhere. Italy also has an elderly population which has only compounded an already bad situation. This is why it is important to treat this with the respect it deserves and not to be trying to compare it to the flu.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 12:38:56 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 08, 2020, 11:03:04 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:18:56 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:12:16 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51787238 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51787238)

Italy taking extreme measures against this oul flu.

It's a good thing it's not as bad flu like the normal one.

So far, the new coronavirus has led to more than 100,000 illnesses and more than 3,000 deaths worldwide. But that's nothing compared with the flu, also called influenza. In the U.S. alone, the flu has caused an estimated 32 million illnesses, 310,000 hospitalizations and 18,000 deaths this season, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

This is a very ill informed comment. If you have read anything about Covid-19 you will know this is nothing like the ordinary flu. It is a fast spreading highly contagious virus with no vaccine. You can't protect people against everything and at least with common flu we have vaccines which mitigate this risk to such a large extent we generally don't give it much thought. The number of victims the common flu claims is still scary as strains of flu mutate and build resistance to that years vaccine which is why there is a new jab each year. If Covid-19 gets on the loose as the common flu has then there is much bigger trouble ahead. Italy is proving testament to that. I hope you have no family or relations that are elderly or have underlying medical problems and are exposed to this. You might have a different outlook then.

Not my statement, I'd say it was written by someone more intelligent than the 'experts' on here
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 08, 2020, 12:45:52 PM
I'd say there were irresponsible idiots posting on calcioboard.com a week ago, È solo influenza.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 08, 2020, 12:48:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 12:38:56 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 08, 2020, 11:03:04 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:18:56 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:12:16 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51787238 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51787238)

Italy taking extreme measures against this oul flu.

It's a good thing it's not as bad flu like the normal one.

So far, the new coronavirus has led to more than 100,000 illnesses and more than 3,000 deaths worldwide. But that's nothing compared with the flu, also called influenza. In the U.S. alone, the flu has caused an estimated 32 million illnesses, 310,000 hospitalizations and 18,000 deaths this season, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

This is a very ill informed comment. If you have read anything about Covid-19 you will know this is nothing like the ordinary flu. It is a fast spreading highly contagious virus with no vaccine. You can't protect people against everything and at least with common flu we have vaccines which mitigate this risk to such a large extent we generally don't give it much thought. The number of victims the common flu claims is still scary as strains of flu mutate and build resistance to that years vaccine which is why there is a new jab each year. If Covid-19 gets on the loose as the common flu has then there is much bigger trouble ahead. Italy is proving testament to that. I hope you have no family or relations that are elderly or have underlying medical problems and are exposed to this. You might have a different outlook then.

Not my statement, I'd say it was written by someone more intelligent than the 'experts' on here

As a statement it maybe we'll be true about the numbers but you are posting as if to be dismissive of Covid-19. I don't see anyone else here posting things that dismiss the seriousness of what is going on. You just can't then come with the cope out that it wasn't your statement. If it wasn't who said that Covid-19 was nothing in comparison to the flu or where did you read that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on March 08, 2020, 12:52:18 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 08, 2020, 12:16:40 PM
This is why Covid19 is so dangerous. This is a modern country with excellent healthcare facilities, they are sending out a stark warning.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-italy-doctors-intensive-care-deaths-a9384356.html

That doesn't make good reading
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 08, 2020, 12:55:11 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 08, 2020, 12:48:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 12:38:56 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 08, 2020, 11:03:04 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:18:56 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:12:16 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51787238 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51787238)

Italy taking extreme measures against this oul flu.

It's a good thing it's not as bad flu like the normal one.

So far, the new coronavirus has led to more than 100,000 illnesses and more than 3,000 deaths worldwide. But that's nothing compared with the flu, also called influenza. In the U.S. alone, the flu has caused an estimated 32 million illnesses, 310,000 hospitalizations and 18,000 deaths this season, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

This is a very ill informed comment. If you have read anything about Covid-19 you will know this is nothing like the ordinary flu. It is a fast spreading highly contagious virus with no vaccine. You can't protect people against everything and at least with common flu we have vaccines which mitigate this risk to such a large extent we generally don't give it much thought. The number of victims the common flu claims is still scary as strains of flu mutate and build resistance to that years vaccine which is why there is a new jab each year. If Covid-19 gets on the loose as the common flu has then there is much bigger trouble ahead. Italy is proving testament to that. I hope you have no family or relations that are elderly or have underlying medical problems and are exposed to this. You might have a different outlook then.

Not my statement, I'd say it was written by someone more intelligent than the 'experts' on here

As a statement it maybe we'll be true about the numbers but you are posting as if to be dismissive of Covid-19. [i]I don't see anyone else here posting things that dismiss the seriousness of what is going on[/i]. You just can't then come with the cope out that it wasn't your statement. If it wasn't who said that Covid-19 was nothing in comparison to the flu or where did you read that.

You must have getoverthebar on block then!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on March 08, 2020, 01:31:12 PM
This site give a lot of stats.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 08, 2020, 01:36:06 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on March 08, 2020, 12:52:18 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 08, 2020, 12:16:40 PM
This is why Covid19 is so dangerous. This is a modern country with excellent healthcare facilities, they are sending out a stark warning.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-italy-doctors-intensive-care-deaths-a9384356.html

That doesn't make good reading

It really doesn't  :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omagh_gael on March 08, 2020, 01:46:01 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on March 08, 2020, 01:31:12 PM
This site give a lot of stats.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Interesting that S Korea have 1500 more cases than Italy but less than quarter of the deaths. What's going on there? Is it a cultural thing were Asians tend to more deferential to authority therefore self isolating much more thoroughly? Can't imagine their healthcare is significantly better to create such a gap.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mayoman dan on March 08, 2020, 02:13:02 PM
The Irish government and the HSE response to this whole thing has been nothing short of a disgrace. Having taken Friday off work due to flu like symptoms i went on to the hse website to get info about the coronavirus.The website states that if you have any symptoms call your gp do not go to your gp as you may need to self isolate.So i called my gp only to be told i have to ring a hse coronavirus helpline and they will assess me and talk me through appropriate next steps.So after waiting on hold for almost an hour i eventually get through to an operator whos first advice was to check the hse website.After explaining that i had checked the website and phoned my gp only to be sent here the operator told me it was PROBABLY just a head cold or the seasonal flu.Just to put this into context im 32 reasonably fit and healthy with no underlying health problems that i know of.Im fairly sure if i contracted the coronavirus my immune system could fight it off but trying to be a responsible adult i dont want to pass this on to anyone else.So as my frustration grew with this operator telling me it was again PROBABLY just a cold or flu i asked what qualified her to give me such advice???After refusing to answer my question she told me hse guidelines state im PROBABLY not infected and i can continue going about my day to day business.Im sure my case isnt unique and for all i know some civil servant with no medical training is giving me advice about my health....Its a joke of a set up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on March 08, 2020, 02:17:10 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 08, 2020, 01:46:01 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on March 08, 2020, 01:31:12 PM
This site give a lot of stats.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Interesting that S Korea have 1500 more cases than Italy but less than quarter of the deaths. What's going on there? Is it a cultural thing were Asians tend to more deferential to authority therefore self isolating much more thoroughly? Can't imagine their healthcare is significantly better to create such a gap.

Might be a factor although it could Possibly be age demographics. Does that area of Italy have a higher ageing population? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 08, 2020, 02:18:10 PM
Quote from: mayoman dan on March 08, 2020, 02:13:02 PM
The Irish government and the HSE response to this whole thing has been nothing short of a disgrace. Having taken Friday off work due to flu like symptoms i went on to the hse website to get info about the coronavirus.The website states that if you have any symptoms call your gp do not go to your gp as you may need to self isolate.So i called my gp only to be told i have to ring a hse coronavirus helpline and they will assess me and talk me through appropriate next steps.So after waiting on hold for almost an hour i eventually get through to an operator whos first advice was to check the hse website.After explaining that i had checked the website and phoned my gp only to be sent here the operator told me it was PROBABLY just a head cold or the seasonal flu.Just to put this into context im 32 reasonably fit and healthy with no underlying health problems that i know of.Im fairly sure if i contracted the coronavirus my immune system could fight it off but trying to be a responsible adult i dont want to pass this on to anyone else.So as my frustration grew with this operator telling me it was again PROBABLY just a cold or flu i asked what qualified her to give me such advice???After refusing to answer my question she told me hse guidelines state im PROBABLY not infected and i can continue going about my day to day business.Im sure my case isnt unique and for all i know some civil servant with no medical training is giving me advice about my health....Its a joke of a set up

Even if it is only regular flu you should not be going about passing it on to other people, especially at present.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 08, 2020, 02:20:15 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on March 08, 2020, 02:17:10 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 08, 2020, 01:46:01 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on March 08, 2020, 01:31:12 PM
This site give a lot of stats.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Interesting that S Korea have 1500 more cases than Italy but less than quarter of the deaths. What's going on there? Is it a cultural thing were Asians tend to more deferential to authority therefore self isolating much more thoroughly? Can't imagine their healthcare is significantly better to create such a gap.

Might be a factor although it could Possibly be age demographics. Does that area of Italy have a higher ageing population?

The death rate may be partly a function of the date when the person got the disease, South Korea may be a few days behind.
But also in Italy health care people had picked up the pox in the early days and this could have brought it to other ill people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omagh_gael on March 08, 2020, 02:58:41 PM
Done a bit of looking around and this appears to be the variable that's significantly different in S Korea...

https://www.businessinsider.com/south-korea-coronavirus-testing-death-rate-2020-3

The US and South Korea announced their first cases of the coronavirus on the same day: January 20. More than six weeks later, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has tested around 1,500 people for the virus. South Korea, meanwhile, has tested about 140,000
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on March 08, 2020, 05:15:33 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 08, 2020, 12:16:40 PM
This is why Covid19 is so dangerous. This is a modern country with excellent healthcare facilities, they are sending out a stark warning.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-italy-doctors-intensive-care-deaths-a9384356.html

Up to 10% of cases needing intensive care treatment.

In the north there are approx. 100 intensive care beds in total.

And only 20% of these are not already occupied. So that's 20 available beds for the entire region.

At a 10% rate of admission to ICU, we start to run out of facilities to adequately treat people once you have more than 200 concurrent cases.

Barring a miracle, an unprecedented shitstorm is coming that will kill thousands of people around us. Most of these will be elderly and/ or already ill, but I'm not sure that's a good enough reason to just write off other human beings.

This isn't swine flu or bird flu or SARS or regular old flu. This is a threat unparalleled in our lifetimes. Any lingering flippancy or ignorance of the gravity of the situation is unforgivable - the facts are out there for everyone to access.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: charlieTully on March 08, 2020, 05:19:33 PM
Great idea austerity proved to be....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 08, 2020, 06:09:27 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 08, 2020, 05:15:33 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 08, 2020, 12:16:40 PM
This is why Covid19 is so dangerous. This is a modern country with excellent healthcare facilities, they are sending out a stark warning.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-italy-doctors-intensive-care-deaths-a9384356.html

Up to 10% of cases needing intensive care treatment.

In the north there are approx. 100 intensive care beds in total.

And only 20% of these are not already occupied. So that's 20 available beds for the entire region.

At a 10% rate of admission to ICU, we start to run out of facilities to adequately treat people once you have more than 200 concurrent cases.

Barring a miracle, an unprecedented shitstorm is coming that will kill thousands of people around us. Most of these will be elderly and/ or already ill, but I'm not sure that's a good enough reason to just write off other human beings.

This isn't swine flu or bird flu or SARS or regular old flu. This is a threat unparalleled in our lifetimes. Any lingering flippancy or ignorance of the gravity of the situation is unforgivable - the facts are out there for everyone to access.

The one thing that's clear above all other things right now, is that you have succumbed to confirmation bias.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on March 08, 2020, 06:19:37 PM
At least we don't have the wankers coming on and quoting suicide rates or heart disease rates.  The gaaboard rises above that shit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 08, 2020, 06:23:19 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 08, 2020, 05:15:33 PM

Barring a miracle, an unprecedented shitstorm is coming that will kill thousands of people around us. Most of these will be elderly and/ or already ill, but I'm not sure that's a good enough reason to just write off other human beings.

Some people think t]hat it is a good enough reason so that they won't be inconvenienced.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on March 08, 2020, 06:32:35 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 08, 2020, 06:09:27 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 08, 2020, 05:15:33 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 08, 2020, 12:16:40 PM
This is why Covid19 is so dangerous. This is a modern country with excellent healthcare facilities, they are sending out a stark warning.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-italy-doctors-intensive-care-deaths-a9384356.html

Up to 10% of cases needing intensive care treatment.

In the north there are approx. 100 intensive care beds in total.

And only 20% of these are not already occupied. So that's 20 available beds for the entire region.

At a 10% rate of admission to ICU, we start to run out of facilities to adequately treat people once you have more than 200 concurrent cases.

Barring a miracle, an unprecedented shitstorm is coming that will kill thousands of people around us. Most of these will be elderly and/ or already ill, but I'm not sure that's a good enough reason to just write off other human beings.

This isn't swine flu or bird flu or SARS or regular old flu. This is a threat unparalleled in our lifetimes. Any lingering flippancy or ignorance of the gravity of the situation is unforgivable - the facts are out there for everyone to access.

The one thing that's clear above all other things right now, is that you have succumbed to confirmation bias.

A predictably trite contribution from the board's contrarian in chief. You'd do well to quit always trying to find the other side of things - most often it's just not there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 08, 2020, 07:02:01 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 05, 2020, 10:57:28 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 05, 2020, 10:25:12 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 05, 2020, 10:21:30 PM
So why wasn't the airports essentially shutdown 4 weeks ago?

Would cause a helluva lot less trouble than this is going to cause.

Yup. My thoughts exactly.

But why stop there.... when you could close down a whole country  instead?

Except you can't.

That is PRECISELY the point.

Shut down the interface from this country to others and then activity within the country can more or less continue unabated.

Now its gonna be a right shit show.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 08, 2020, 07:02:54 PM
It always boils down to money.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 08, 2020, 07:14:17 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 08, 2020, 06:09:27 PM
The one thing that's clear above all other things right now, is that you have succumbed to confirmation bias.

Sorry wobbler but that dismissing reality through ignorance.

If you care to go look at the numbers coming through from other countries aside from Italy, you'll see its between 10-20% of cases are either severe or critical. [Those that will need ventilators etc.]


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 08, 2020, 07:18:57 PM
Ed. You've seem to be at a point where you're recommending that Northern Ireland should seek to emulate Italy, where that the notable difference in approaches to date is that after suffering dozens of cases, some senior doctors in Italy have gone on record with a belief that a shitshow is coming, while urging people to take it seriously.

What them, you, Radio and Tommy just don't seem willing to accept is that our health system will never cope with a nationwide pandemic. It's just not possible to scale a health service by 40%, 50%, 100%, and to react unilaterally to a condition that is non-threatening to the majority of people who contract it, ahead of their usual daily dose of threatening stuff, would be wrong.

This isn't just about money Tommy. The basic fundamental truth is that we live in a service society. When you start shutting down services, a snowball starts forming. You are off the believe that the Coronavirus snowball is worse than anything a societal meltdown might bring. Personally I make you wrong.

Radio, let's leave money aside. Both the UK and Ireland agree to close their ports and airports, and to close them to each other. Honestly, how long until anarchy?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 08, 2020, 07:22:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 08, 2020, 07:14:17 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 08, 2020, 06:09:27 PM
The one thing that's clear above all other things right now, is that you have succumbed to confirmation bias.

Sorry wobbler but that dismissing reality through ignorance.

If you care to go look at the numbers coming through from other countries aside from Italy, you'll see its between 10-20% of cases are either severe or critical. [Those that will need ventilators etc.]

Radio see rely above.

The easiest thing for anyone to do is to start blaming the government.

The right thing to do is to fight that thought pattern. If this has genuine potential for a national pandemic, then don't waste time in fantasy land where doctors, nurses, beds, medical equipment and drugs can be upscaled by double digit percentages within a couple of months.

Just say your prayers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 08, 2020, 07:24:26 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 08, 2020, 07:18:57 PM
Radio, let's leave money aside. Both the UK and Ireland agree to close their ports and airports, and to close them to each other. Honestly, how long until anarchy?

Just what do you think is coming down the track if they don't?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 08, 2020, 07:37:44 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 08, 2020, 07:22:56 PM
Radio see rely above.

The easiest thing for anyone to do is to start blami

It **is** the governments fault.

They sat on it in the critical first phase and its too late now. They are still about 4-6 weeks behind where they need to be in taking action.

Travel to/from Italy should have been stopped weeks ago. Its **still** ongoing.
Travel to/from China should have been stopped months ago. Its **still** ongoing.

Anyone coming in from a known infection hotspot should be placed in isolation, not self-isolation (which many are paying lip service to), for 20 days.


The later they leave it to get real about dealing with this, the worse its going to be.

Your on about anarchy 'cos of stopping travel? Just what the f**k you think is going to happen when folks are sick - or their children are sick, cannot get medication cos the pharmacies are sold out and cannot go to the hospitals because they've essentially collapsed under the weight of this?

You - and an awful lot of other people - need to get f**king real about what's coming - no solidarity posts on social media are gonna fix this for the snowflakes.


The Spanish flu had a mortality rate of less than 1% (less dangerous than this), it infected 800,000 people in Ireland over about 20 months and killed around 23,000.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 08, 2020, 07:39:14 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 08, 2020, 07:24:26 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 08, 2020, 07:18:57 PM
Radio, let's leave money aside. Both the UK and Ireland agree to close their ports and airports, and to close them to each other. Honestly, how long until anarchy?

Just what do you think is coming down the track if they don't?

The 4 wide scenarios.

1. An absolute shitshow, a proper doomsday virus that continually mutates and strengthens, taking all but the strong and the lucky.
2. Something along its current lines, and its initial state proves to be a mass killer and changes the face of Irish society forever, wiping out a double digit percentage of the population within a year or two.
3. Something along its current lines, which spreads quickly enough and mutates often  enough to become an accustomed part of living in the developed world, like the flu, and each year enough medical improvements come along to lessen its impact on those who become infected.
4.  Something along its current lines, except it doesn't mutate frequently enough and in a relatively short space of time, all but disappears.


You are determined that it's going to be a 1 or a 2. Which is okay.

But  I'd suggest that if it's a 1, there's f**k all anyone can do about it. If it's a 2, then all a government can really do is, if they're lucky, postpone the inevitable for a while. If it's a 4, then we would have been better off not getting into a twist about it.  So that leaves 3. And as we've never quite mastered the flu, I'm not sure whether we will with this virus either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 08, 2020, 07:48:47 PM
Radio. Listen.

If this virus is as contagious as you wish to believe, then shutting down Italian and Chinese travel is not enough. Even if Leo had have convinced the Uk to do likewise, it would have been a finger in the dam. With NI not bound by the same regulations, it would be like trying to serve a pint in a sieve.

I can get what you're saying about buying the health service time, and easing the initial load while a plan is created. But how much difference would 3 months / 6 months / 18 months really make here to a health service that has no potential to scale to the levels of need that worry you?  Especially when the tipping point here is not a plane load of Italians shopping in Dublin City Centre, but a healthy Irishman who says mass on a Sunday, does a hospital round on the Monday, welcomes children to  the local play school on the Tuesday, draws bingo on the Wednesday, and realises on the Thursday that his cough is getting worse, not better..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 08, 2020, 07:51:48 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 08, 2020, 07:39:14 PM
2. Something along its current lines, and its initial state proves to be a mass killer and changes the face of Irish society forever, wiping out a double digit percentage of the population within a year or two.
3. Something along its current lines, which spreads quickly enough and mutates often  enough to become an accustomed part of living in the developed world, like the flu, and each year enough medical improvements come along to lessen its impact on those who become infected.

Leaving aside (1), because it doesn't matter what we do and leaving aside (4), as that is hoping for luck to carry us through.

For me, I see, well, seen - its too late now - the sensible plan as ultimately being one of:

(i) buying time for a vaccine.
(ii) restrict any instances of the disease to directly those entering the country.
(iii) keep the burden to NHS/HSE as low as possible.

With that in mind, I would have essentially shut the air/sea travel to passengers, goods can continue - but required disinfection and their own quarantine time. Anyone that must travel must accept strict quarantine (not self-quarantine) on arrival in country. No ifs, no buts.

If the numbers could have been limited to the few that travel in, then the NHS/HSE could have managed. It could also have been stopped from "breaking out".

That would also have allowed time to set up the manpower/infrastructure to deal for when it eventually does (and it would) break out into the country. Then when someone "inside" gets it, you have the resources to trace and quarantine all contacts. Act strong early, be that close workplaces, schools etc, and you slow or if your lucky, stop the spread.



Instead, we've had half-measures and ineptitude. Now the NHS/HSE will (effectively) collapse under the strain. Probably before end of April.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 08, 2020, 07:53:58 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 08, 2020, 07:48:47 PMBut how much difference would 3 months / 6 months / 18 months really make here to a health service that has no potential to scale to the levels of need that worry you?

18 months is the magic number - as your likely to be into the realms of vaccination territory, at least for the most vulnerable.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 08, 2020, 07:56:07 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 08, 2020, 07:48:47 PM
If this virus is as contagious as you wish to believe, then shutting down Italian and Chinese travel is not enough. Even if Leo had have convinced the Uk to do likewise, it would have been a finger in the dam. With NI not bound by the same regulations, it would be like trying to serve a pint in a sieve.

That is why all political leaders everywhere share the blame for this.

Sure they can sit down and "discuss" it. As if a politician discussing something arrived at anything useful in a hurry.


Look at what China has had to do to try and contain it and keep the health services outside Wuhan functioning. Do you see anything like that degree of hard decision being made by the leaders here?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 08, 2020, 07:58:41 PM
Radio has a point. I work for a US multinational and we have stopped all visits for our people and all visitors from outside coming to us. Anyone travelling from an infected area is being told to not come to work for 2 weeks. All multinationals I have contact with are doing the same. So why are the irish government, for example, even considering allowing St Patrick's day parade. Money should not be the top consideration in every scenario. Why are we allowing ejits to fly out to ski holidays today to Italy. Its crazy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2020, 08:01:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

133 deaths in a single day in Italy. I've just been instructed to work from home for the next fortnight.

I think we can stop playing it down now. And that goes for the squatter in the White House too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 08, 2020, 08:03:24 PM
Ah now we are at the nub of it, basically, it's always someone else's fault.

——-

Neither you, me, nor anyone on this thread, nor indeed anyone in Ireland, has the faintest idea of how swiftly China acted, nor how progressively or humanely they have acted, nor how effective their actions have been.

You only know what they are willing to share, and they are unlikely to share the story as it happened.

If you are choosing to highlight their actions as something to emulate, it is the epitome of confirmation bias.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 08, 2020, 08:09:09 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 08, 2020, 07:58:41 PM
Radio has a point. I work for a US multinational and we have stopped all visits for our people and all visitors from outside coming to us. Anyone travelling from an infected area is being told to not come to work for 2 weeks. All multinationals I have contact with are doing the same. So why are the irish government, for example, even considering allowing St Patrick's day parade. Money should not be the top consideration in every scenario. Why are we allowing ejits to fly out to ski holidays today to Italy. Its crazy.

To blame the government's actions (or lack thereof) on money is lazy analysis. There is of course an economical angle to consider, but only in the fact that society will implode without an economic baseline whereby people work, people earn, people trade earnings for goods and services.. This is not about trying to  save €1bn or about keeping a bank afloat, or about Ireland's worldwide financial rating.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 08, 2020, 08:11:37 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 08, 2020, 07:58:41 PM
Radio has a point. I work for a US multinational and we have stopped all visits for our people and all visitors from outside coming to us. Anyone travelling from an infected area is being told to not come to work for 2 weeks. All multinationals I have contact with are doing the same. So why are the irish government, for example, even considering allowing St Patrick's day parade. Money should not be the top consideration in every scenario. Why are we allowing ejits to fly out to ski holidays today to Italy. Its crazy.

I suspect the parade is not the biggest problem, it has been suggested that  transmission outdoors is less of a problem, especially if the weather is like today and people are well wrapped up. The bigger problem may be people in pubs etc. Perhaps we should follow the Italian principle of only allowing bars open during the day and if they can keep people 2 metres apart.

Quote from: thewobbler on March 08, 2020, 08:03:24 PM
Neither you, me, nor anyone on this thread, nor indeed anyone in Ireland, has the faintest idea of how swiftly China acted, nor how progressively or humanely they have acted, nor how effective their actions have been.

Of course some people in Ireland, if not on this thread, have the faintest idea; we have evacuees from Wuhan, we have reports from the WHO. There may be some limitations to this information, but we know the general idea. We can also learn from Hong Kong and Singapore, where the disease is fairly well under control without complete lockdowns, but with actions all the same. There they have "maintained the economic baseline".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:53:53 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51793619 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51793619)

Nothing to see here !!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

Didn't realise brexit was killing folk by the hour.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

Didn't realise brexit was killing folk by the hour.

By the hour? How many weeks now? Christmas was 3 months ago? Death rate in Ireland is?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 08, 2020, 09:24:16 PM
The UK & Ireland are both in a healthier position than a lot of countries, the natural defences of being island nations should be a big help if & when the harsh restrictions eventually do come. I would think the USA is going to suffer badly, it wasn't being taken seriously until the horse had bolted; the uninsured people / expensive nature of the healthcare system is a recipe for disaster. It should derail Trump's re-election too, his idiocy will become increasingly clear, even for the zealots if he continues with the nonsense in the face of rising death rates and economic recession.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 08, 2020, 09:30:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

Didn't realise brexit was killing folk by the hour.

By the hour? How many weeks now? Christmas was 3 months ago? Death rate in Ireland is?

5 or 6 people die on the island of Ireland each hour. If Covid 19 peaks as per the Sunday Business Post today then that would become 30 or 40.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

Didn't realise brexit was killing folk by the hour.

By the hour? How many weeks now? Christmas was 3 months ago? Death rate in Ireland is?

So f**k you Jack I am ok.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 08, 2020, 09:32:26 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:53:53 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51793619 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51793619)

Nothing to see here !!!

I for one thought this was a media driven click bait reaction. The reality is different. We are facing into exactly what is happening in Italy and our government is not reacting at all. It's very worrying that this is coming and it's coming fast because no one is taking it seriously, as demonstrated here by wobbler.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:33:56 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 08, 2020, 09:32:26 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:53:53 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51793619 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51793619)

Nothing to see here !!!

I for one thought this was a media driven click bait reaction. The reality is different. We are facing into exactly what is happening in Italy and our government is not reacting at all. It's very worrying that this is coming and it's coming fast because no one is taking it seriously, as demonstrated here by wobbler.

It is a humanitarian crisis but as long as miltown is ok, f**k the rest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

Didn't realise brexit was killing folk by the hour.

By the hour? How many weeks now? Christmas was 3 months ago? Death rate in Ireland is?

So f**k you Jack I am ok.

Just answer the question dickhead
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:36:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

Didn't realise brexit was killing folk by the hour.

By the hour? How many weeks now? Christmas was 3 months ago? Death rate in Ireland is?

So f**k you Jack I am ok.

Just answer the question dickhead

Oh petal hit a nerve, the world doesn't revolve around you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:37:59 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:36:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

Didn't realise brexit was killing folk by the hour.

By the hour? How many weeks now? Christmas was 3 months ago? Death rate in Ireland is?

So f**k you Jack I am ok.

Just answer the question dickhead

Oh petal hit a nerve, the world doesn't revolve around you.

So you're not going to answer it? Ok then
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:38:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

Didn't realise brexit was killing folk by the hour.

By the hour? How many weeks now? Christmas was 3 months ago? Death rate in Ireland is?

So f**k you Jack I am ok.

Just answer the question dickhead

Congratulations on showing your true colours btw, we all knew for years your bigotry, if it doesn't impede on milltown f**k the rest, good man.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:39:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:37:59 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:36:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

Didn't realise brexit was killing folk by the hour.

By the hour? How many weeks now? Christmas was 3 months ago? Death rate in Ireland is?

So f**k you Jack I am ok.

Just answer the question dickhead

Oh petal hit a nerve, the world doesn't revolve around you.

So you're not going to answer it? Ok then

Rest of humanity not count in your world?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:42:35 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:39:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:37:59 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:36:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

Didn't realise brexit was killing folk by the hour.

By the hour? How many weeks now? Christmas was 3 months ago? Death rate in Ireland is?

So f**k you Jack I am ok.

Just answer the question dickhead

Oh petal hit a nerve, the world doesn't revolve around you.

So you're not going to answer it? Ok then

Rest of humanity not count in your world?

Still not answering? You trolled someone about the flu and now you're avoiding a simple question? You're a dick
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:45:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:42:35 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:39:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:37:59 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:36:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

Didn't realise brexit was killing folk by the hour.

By the hour? How many weeks now? Christmas was 3 months ago? Death rate in Ireland is?

So f**k you Jack I am ok.

Just answer the question dickhead

Oh petal hit a nerve, the world doesn't revolve around you.

So you're not going to answer it? Ok then

Rest of humanity not count in your world?

Still not answering? You trolled someone about the flu and now you're avoiding a simple question? You're a dick

Pathetic response, getoverthebar deemed something he knew nothing about as simply the flu, you have upped the anti by alluding to the fact that if there are no deaths in Ireland f**k the rest, I am sure you are a lovely bigot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:49:24 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:45:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:42:35 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:39:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:37:59 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:36:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

Didn't realise brexit was killing folk by the hour.

By the hour? How many weeks now? Christmas was 3 months ago? Death rate in Ireland is?

So f**k you Jack I am ok.

Just answer the question dickhead

Oh petal hit a nerve, the world doesn't revolve around you.

So you're not going to answer it? Ok then

Rest of humanity not count in your world?

Still not answering? You trolled someone about the flu and now you're avoiding a simple question? You're a dick

Pathetic response, getoverthebar deemed something he knew nothing about as simply the flu, you have upped the anti by alluding to the fact that if there are no deaths in Ireland f**k the rest, I am sure you are a lovely bigot.

Not going to answer question? But now I'm a bigot? You're not well lad
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 08, 2020, 09:52:51 PM
Ach would yis f**k away off the pair of you
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:54:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:49:24 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:45:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:42:35 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:39:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:37:59 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:36:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

Didn't realise brexit was killing folk by the hour.

By the hour? How many weeks now? Christmas was 3 months ago? Death rate in Ireland is?

So f**k you Jack I am ok.

Just answer the question dickhead

Oh petal hit a nerve, the world doesn't revolve around you.

So you're not going to answer it? Ok then

Rest of humanity not count in your world?

Still not answering? You trolled someone about the flu and now you're avoiding a simple question? You're a dick

Pathetic response, getoverthebar deemed something he knew nothing about as simply the flu, you have upped the anti by alluding to the fact that if there are no deaths in Ireland f**k the rest, I am sure you are a lovely bigot.

Not going to answer question? But now I'm a bigot? You're not well lad

Yip you have shown contempt to foreigners for years, now you couldn't give a rats arse how many are dying as Long as Ireland ok, let's sit it out like Brexit and you call me a dick, get a grip LAD. Btw your mystical power over Ireland won't protect them from this virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:55:27 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 08, 2020, 09:52:51 PM
Ach would yis f**k away off the pair of you

If he was in a pub quoting this shite bet you wouldn't f**k away off.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:57:56 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:54:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:49:24 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:45:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:42:35 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:39:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:37:59 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:36:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

Didn't realise brexit was killing folk by the hour.

By the hour? How many weeks now? Christmas was 3 months ago? Death rate in Ireland is?

So f**k you Jack I am ok.

Just answer the question dickhead

Oh petal hit a nerve, the world doesn't revolve around you.

So you're not going to answer it? Ok then

Rest of humanity not count in your world?

Still not answering? You trolled someone about the flu and now you're avoiding a simple question? You're a dick

Pathetic response, getoverthebar deemed something he knew nothing about as simply the flu, you have upped the anti by alluding to the fact that if there are no deaths in Ireland f**k the rest, I am sure you are a lovely bigot.

Not going to answer question? But now I'm a bigot? You're not well lad

Yip you have shown contempt to foreigners for years, now you couldn't give a rats arse how many are dying as Long as Ireland ok, let's sit it out like Brexit and you call me a dick, get a grip LAD. Btw your mystical power over Ireland won't protect them from this virus.

Still waiting on you're answer to my question. Contempt for foreigners? Are you on drugs ? Foreign workers are required here because we've lazy cnuts from here who refuse to work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Art Mc Crory’s Sofa on March 08, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
I know it wouldn't achieve anything but I'd like to see everyone who said "it's just the flu" bull whipped.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:01:32 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 08, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
I know it wouldn't achieve anything but I'd like to see everyone who said "it's just the flu" bull whipped.

Bulls shouldn't be whipped, that's animal cruelty  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Art Mc Crory’s Sofa on March 08, 2020, 10:05:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:01:32 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 08, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
I know it wouldn't achieve anything but I'd like to see everyone who said "it's just the flu" bull whipped.

Bulls shouldn't be whipped, that's animal cruelty  ;)

Yeah I'm not advocating bulls being whipped just people who don't give a f**k about a virus that's killing thousands of people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:13:26 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 08, 2020, 10:05:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:01:32 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 08, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
I know it wouldn't achieve anything but I'd like to see everyone who said "it's just the flu" bull whipped.

Bulls shouldn't be whipped, that's animal cruelty  ;)

Yeah I'm not advocating bulls being whipped just people who don't give a f**k about a virus that's killing thousands of people.

Im just asking. I haven't said this isn't real. The rates in Italy are frightening but also the facts show that in England alone 6500 people died last year of just flu. No other reason. When, and it will escalate, it's not in our control. I'll deal with it when it happens. You or I can only control what we can. Closing airports and countries won't happen
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on March 08, 2020, 10:21:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:13:26 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 08, 2020, 10:05:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:01:32 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 08, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
I know it wouldn't achieve anything but I'd like to see everyone who said "it's just the flu" bull whipped.

Bulls shouldn't be whipped, that's animal cruelty  ;)

Yeah I'm not advocating bulls being whipped just people who don't give a f**k about a virus that's killing thousands of people.

Im just asking. I haven't said this isn't real. The rates in Italy are frightening but also the facts show that in England alone 6500 people died last year of just flu. No other reason. When, and it will escalate, it's not in our control. I'll deal with it when it happens. You or I can only control what we can. Closing airports and countries won't happen

2 weeks ago Italy had fewer cases than the UK has now. Within the next week or 2 the UK and Ireland will have thousands of cases and the health service will be at breaking point. This is already deadly serious and will get much more so in a short time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 08, 2020, 10:23:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:57:56 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:54:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:49:24 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:45:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:42:35 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:39:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:37:59 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:36:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

Didn't realise brexit was killing folk by the hour.

By the hour? How many weeks now? Christmas was 3 months ago? Death rate in Ireland is?

So f**k you Jack I am ok.

Just answer the question dickhead

Oh petal hit a nerve, the world doesn't revolve around you.

So you're not going to answer it? Ok then

Rest of humanity not count in your world?

Still not answering? You trolled someone about the flu and now you're avoiding a simple question? You're a dick

Pathetic response, getoverthebar deemed something he knew nothing about as simply the flu, you have upped the anti by alluding to the fact that if there are no deaths in Ireland f**k the rest, I am sure you are a lovely bigot.

Not going to answer question? But now I'm a bigot? You're not well lad

Yip you have shown contempt to foreigners for years, now you couldn't give a rats arse how many are dying as Long as Ireland ok, let's sit it out like Brexit and you call me a dick, get a grip LAD. Btw your mystical power over Ireland won't protect them from this virus.

Still waiting on you're answer to my question. Contempt for foreigners? Are you on drugs ? Foreign workers are required here because we've lazy cnuts from here who refuse to work.

Answer on Google,loads of Italians here this weekend, you obviously couldn't give a flying one about anyone but yourself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:27:18 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 10:23:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:57:56 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:54:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:49:24 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:45:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:42:35 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:39:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:37:59 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:36:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

Didn't realise brexit was killing folk by the hour.

By the hour? How many weeks now? Christmas was 3 months ago? Death rate in Ireland is?

So f**k you Jack I am ok.

Just answer the question dickhead

Oh petal hit a nerve, the world doesn't revolve around you.

So you're not going to answer it? Ok then

Rest of humanity not count in your world?

Still not answering? You trolled someone about the flu and now you're avoiding a simple question? You're a dick

Pathetic response, getoverthebar deemed something he knew nothing about as simply the flu, you have upped the anti by alluding to the fact that if there are no deaths in Ireland f**k the rest, I am sure you are a lovely bigot.

Not going to answer question? But now I'm a bigot? You're not well lad

Yip you have shown contempt to foreigners for years, now you couldn't give a rats arse how many are dying as Long as Ireland ok, let's sit it out like Brexit and you call me a dick, get a grip LAD. Btw your mystical power over Ireland won't protect them from this virus.

Still waiting on you're answer to my question. Contempt for foreigners? Are you on drugs ? Foreign workers are required here because we've lazy cnuts from here who refuse to work.

Answer on Google,loads of Italians here this weekend, you obviously couldn't give a flying one about anyone but yourself.

Just tell me, ya knob
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on March 08, 2020, 10:30:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:13:26 PM
Im just asking. I haven't said this isn't real. The rates in Italy are frightening but also the facts show that in England alone 6500 people died last year of just flu. No other reason. When, and it will escalate, it's not in our control. I'll deal with it when it happens. You or I can only control what we can. Closing airports and countries won't happen

That's plainly wrong. We can quarantine, buy time, create a vaccine. Make and produce ventilators, prepare ICU units. Cancel large scale meetings of people.

Sitting with your hands folded saying "there's nothing we can do" is simply wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 08, 2020, 10:33:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:27:18 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 10:23:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:57:56 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:54:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:49:24 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:45:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:42:35 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:39:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:37:59 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:36:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

Didn't realise brexit was killing folk by the hour.

By the hour? How many weeks now? Christmas was 3 months ago? Death rate in Ireland is?

So f**k you Jack I am ok.

Just answer the question dickhead

Oh petal hit a nerve, the world doesn't revolve around you.

So you're not going to answer it? Ok then

Rest of humanity not count in your world?

Still not answering? You trolled someone about the flu and now you're avoiding a simple question? You're a dick

Pathetic response, getoverthebar deemed something he knew nothing about as simply the flu, you have upped the anti by alluding to the fact that if there are no deaths in Ireland f**k the rest, I am sure you are a lovely bigot.

Not going to answer question? But now I'm a bigot? You're not well lad

Yip you have shown contempt to foreigners for years, now you couldn't give a rats arse how many are dying as Long as Ireland ok, let's sit it out like Brexit and you call me a dick, get a grip LAD. Btw your mystical power over Ireland won't protect them from this virus.

Still waiting on you're answer to my question. Contempt for foreigners? Are you on drugs ? Foreign workers are required here because we've lazy cnuts from here who refuse to work.

Answer on Google,loads of Italians here this weekend, you obviously couldn't give a flying one about anyone but yourself.

Just tell me, ya knob

You are playing a blinder, are you on the sauce or just a complete bigot? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 08, 2020, 10:35:00 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 08, 2020, 10:30:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:13:26 PM
Im just asking. I haven't said this isn't real. The rates in Italy are frightening but also the facts show that in England alone 6500 people died last year of just flu. No other reason. When, and it will escalate, it's not in our control. I'll deal with it when it happens. You or I can only control what we can. Closing airports and countries won't happen

That's plainly wrong. We can quarantine, buy time, create a vaccine. Make and produce ventilators, prepare ICU units. Cancel large scale meetings of people.

Sitting with your hands folded saying "there's nothing we can do" is simply wrong.

He has a f**k you Jack I am ok, unfortunately there is a lot about so to rely on citizens like him puts everyone at risk.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:37:33 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 08, 2020, 10:30:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:13:26 PM
Im just asking. I haven't said this isn't real. The rates in Italy are frightening but also the facts show that in England alone 6500 people died last year of just flu. No other reason. When, and it will escalate, it's not in our control. I'll deal with it when it happens. You or I can only control what we can. Closing airports and countries won't happen

That's plainly wrong. We can quarantine, buy time, create a vaccine. Make and produce ventilators, prepare ICU units. Cancel large scale meetings of people.

Sitting with your hands folded saying "there's nothing we can do" is simply wrong.

Vaccines won't happen next week, and the other stuff you've mentioned won't happen either, incompetent governments worldwide have created this virus in the first place.

Economically it will cripple Ireland should we close the borders. Use common sense and we'll try and manage a uncontrollable situation. There will be deaths but your measures won't stop it getting here
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on March 08, 2020, 10:42:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

Didn't realise brexit was killing folk by the hour.

By the hour? How many weeks now? Christmas was 3 months ago? Death rate in Ireland is?

The first case in Ireland was confirmed 10 days ago.

Already we 28 cases on the island, with one man seriously ill in intensive care. He may die.

This is clearly trending in the same direction here as elsewhere. Countries where hundreds have died in the space of a few weeks.

I can't understand why some remain so resolutely flippant and dismissive of this crisis. Are they trolling? Or are they just as dangerous thick as it seems?

This thickness would be funny if it wasn't so serious. And it's serious because what people do next matters.

It's the difference between washing your hands properly, or thinking you don't have to bother. It's the difference between working from home, or heading into the office with your 'head cold' and developing cough. It's the difference between sitting at home waiting for the result of a diagnostic test, or going to play a game of reserve soccer and potentially exposing dozens to the virus.

It's the difference in the slowing the spread of the virus until some additional medical facilities can be made available that will save the lives of people you know, or the virus spreading unabated and killing some of your neighbours/ friends/ family members.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:51:19 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 08, 2020, 10:42:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

Didn't realise brexit was killing folk by the hour.

By the hour? How many weeks now? Christmas was 3 months ago? Death rate in Ireland is?

The first case in Ireland was confirmed 10 days ago.

Already we 28 cases on the island, with one man seriously ill in intensive care. He may die.

This is clearly trending in the same direction here as elsewhere. Countries where hundreds have died in the space of a few weeks.

I can't understand why some remain so resolutely flippant and dismissive of this crisis. Are they trolling? Or are they just as dangerous thick as it seems?

This thickness would be funny if it wasn't so serious. And it's serious because what people do next matters.

It's the difference between washing your hands properly, or thinking you don't have to bother. It's the difference between working from home, or heading into the office with your 'head cold' and developing cough. It's the difference between sitting at home waiting for the result of a diagnostic test, or going to play a game of reserve soccer and potentially exposing dozens to the virus.

It's the difference in the slowing the spread of the virus until some additional medical facilities can be made available that will save the lives of people you know, or the virus spreading unabated and killing some of your neighbours/ friends/ family members.

I thought it happened in Ireland before ten days ago. 27th of February

A friend of mine is a big wig in Randox they've been producing test kits these last two weeks worldwide, they might even close down other parts of their manufacturing to produce these kits.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on March 08, 2020, 11:04:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:37:33 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 08, 2020, 10:30:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:13:26 PM
Im just asking. I haven't said this isn't real. The rates in Italy are frightening but also the facts show that in England alone 6500 people died last year of just flu. No other reason. When, and it will escalate, it's not in our control. I'll deal with it when it happens. You or I can only control what we can. Closing airports and countries won't happen

That's plainly wrong. We can quarantine, buy time, create a vaccine. Make and produce ventilators, prepare ICU units. Cancel large scale meetings of people.

Sitting with your hands folded saying "there's nothing we can do" is simply wrong.

Vaccines won't happen next week, and the other stuff you've mentioned won't happen either, incompetent governments worldwide have created this virus in the first place.

Economically it will cripple Ireland should we close the borders. Use common sense and we'll try and manage a uncontrollable situation. There will be deaths but your measures won't stop it getting here
We don't need a vaccine as quick as next week. It's highly conceivable to construct and test a vaccine inside a period of 3-4 months, the flu vaccine is seasonally adjusted every 12 months in response to recombination of the surface proteins.

It's no wonder the governments are incompetent when some people in the general population are equally as incompetent. Tell me, at what death rate would you consider it acceptable to take measures to prevent dissemination of infection even if it economically affected Ireland? What figure would you put on the economic contraction should we decide to close the borders?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 11:16:53 PM
One, one death wouldn't be acceptable (out of your control btw) but you're making stuff up about vaccines within three months, if companies can make tests kits for this virus they'll be busting their eye string to produce a vaccine, not available, minimum for a year (based on approvals) properly, providing it doesn't mutate, that's from a manager in Randox, they are working on it but nothing until they actually understand it.

Giving off to me won't stop it, I'm actively using the right procedures every day, my livelihood depends on it.

So again, how many deaths (in comparison to normal flu, which this isn't,this is far worse) in Ireland do we have? Predictions will be higher I'd assume
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 08, 2020, 11:20:25 PM
You can talk about measures all you want lads but the chain is only as strong as it's weakest link...

Some **** gets tested for the Coronavirus travels to an away game and plays for his team all the while in contact with other people then that evening comes out and tells everyone he has the virus !!!

Yes it's a huge problem and yes we should do what we can to mitigate it but I think at this stage it's far too early to shut everything down let's see how this develops and take appropriate actions when needed rushing to shut the place down could do massive long term damage to people's jobs and livelihoods who may not even be affected by the virus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 08, 2020, 11:27:49 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 08, 2020, 11:20:25 PM
You can talk about measures all you want lads but the chain is only as strong as it's weakest link...

Some **** gets tested for the Coronavirus travels to an away game and plays for his team all the while in contact with other people then that evening comes out and tells everyone he has the virus !!!

Yes it's a huge problem and yes we should do what we can to mitigate it but I think at this stage it's far too early to shut everything down let's see how this develops and take appropriate actions when needed rushing to shut the place down could do massive long term damage to people's jobs and livelihoods who may not even be affected by the virus

Dint have to shut everything down but we should stop flights to Itsly, we should postpone paddys day. These are no brainers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 08, 2020, 11:33:28 PM
Here, would you advise on whether a bottle of hand sanitizer is really needed?  I know soap and water is advised too but was thinking if you're out and about.

When to use it, and how often etc?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 11:36:53 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 08, 2020, 11:27:49 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 08, 2020, 11:20:25 PM
You can talk about measures all you want lads but the chain is only as strong as it's weakest link...

Some **** gets tested for the Coronavirus travels to an away game and plays for his team all the while in contact with other people then that evening comes out and tells everyone he has the virus !!!

Yes it's a huge problem and yes we should do what we can to mitigate it but I think at this stage it's far too early to shut everything down let's see how this develops and take appropriate actions when needed rushing to shut the place down could do massive long term damage to people's jobs and livelihoods who may not even be affected by the virus

Dint have to shut everything down but we should stop flights to Itsly, we should postpone paddys day. These are no brainers.

How many events has there been in Ireland since the first case in the north was diagnosed? And since we've known about the virus, how many flights/boats have been stopped going to Britain and beyond? None, postpone Paddy's day! f**k I've heard it now! Next you'll be stopping Mother's Day.

As for the sanitizer, unless it's 70% alcohol it's useless. And only useful if you use it correctly! We touch our face 30 times an hour! Try changing that routine
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 08, 2020, 11:37:46 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-japan-bar-crawl-spread-gamagori-a9384541.html?amp

Some people...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 11:43:09 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 08, 2020, 11:37:46 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-japan-bar-crawl-spread-gamagori-a9384541.html?amp

Some people...

Seen a video of people spitting on buttons in a lift and sneezing on purpose in a lift, purposely  spreading the virus. Some People are cnuts
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 08, 2020, 11:55:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 11:43:09 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 08, 2020, 11:37:46 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-japan-bar-crawl-spread-gamagori-a9384541.html?amp

Some people...

Seen a video of people spitting on buttons in a lift and sneezing on purpose in a lift, purposely  spreading the virus. Some People are cnuts

This sort of thing happened in Singapore. The culprits probably regret their action since the police took their DNA off the buttons and arrested them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 09, 2020, 12:00:44 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 11:36:53 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 08, 2020, 11:27:49 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 08, 2020, 11:20:25 PM
You can talk about measures all you want lads but the chain is only as strong as it's weakest link...

Some **** gets tested for the Coronavirus travels to an away game and plays for his team all the while in contact with other people then that evening comes out and tells everyone he has the virus !!!

Yes it's a huge problem and yes we should do what we can to mitigate it but I think at this stage it's far too early to shut everything down let's see how this develops and take appropriate actions when needed rushing to shut the place down could do massive long term damage to people's jobs and livelihoods who may not even be affected by the virus

Dint have to shut everything down but we should stop flights to Itsly, we should postpone paddys day. These are no brainers.

How many events has there been in Ireland since the first case in the north was diagnosed? And since we've known about the virus, how many flights/boats have been stopped going to Britain and beyond? None, postpone Paddy's day! f**k I've heard it now! Next you'll be stopping Mother's Day.

As for the sanitizer, unless it's 70% alcohol it's useless. And only useful if you use it correctly! We touch our face 30 times an hour! Try changing that routine

You are being incredibly contrary. Paddys day is bringing shit loads of visitors from god knows where, its the same logic as why soccer games and rugby games have been postponed already. Large gatherings are a huge risk for one infected person infecting 100s more. The hand washing etc is correct of course but you cannot force people to do that, you can only educate and appeal to their better nature. But sure people like you will probably say what the point washing my hands if someone sneezes in my face, so I wont bother. Mothers day, wise up ta f**k will ya.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on March 09, 2020, 12:06:39 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 08, 2020, 11:55:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 11:43:09 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 08, 2020, 11:37:46 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-japan-bar-crawl-spread-gamagori-a9384541.html?amp

Some people...

Seen a video of people spitting on buttons in a lift and sneezing on purpose in a lift, purposely  spreading the virus. Some People are cnuts

This sort of thing happened in Singapore. The culprits probably regret their action since the police took their DNA off the buttons and arrested them.
Where  is the evidence that the man in Aichi had malicious intent?
What evidence does a lynch mob need ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 09, 2020, 07:29:27 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:37:33 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 08, 2020, 10:30:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:13:26 PM
Im just asking. I haven't said this isn't real. The rates in Italy are frightening but also the facts show that in England alone 6500 people died last year of just flu. No other reason. When, and it will escalate, it's not in our control. I'll deal with it when it happens. You or I can only control what we can. Closing airports and countries won't happen

That's plainly wrong. We can quarantine, buy time, create a vaccine. Make and produce ventilators, prepare ICU units. Cancel large scale meetings of people.

Sitting with your hands folded saying "there's nothing we can do" is simply wrong.

Vaccines won't happen next week, and the other stuff you've mentioned won't happen either, incompetent governments worldwide have created this virus in the first place.

Economically it will cripple Ireland should we close the borders. Use common sense and we'll try and manage a uncontrollable situation. There will be deaths but .... as long as it's not me

Fixed that for ya.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 09, 2020, 07:30:46 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 11:43:09 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 08, 2020, 11:37:46 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-japan-bar-crawl-spread-gamagori-a9384541.html?amp

Some people...

Seen a video of people spitting on buttons in a lift and sneezing on purpose in a lift, purposely  spreading the virus. Some People are cnuts

Takes one to know one I suppose.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 07:40:07 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 09, 2020, 12:00:44 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 11:36:53 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 08, 2020, 11:27:49 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 08, 2020, 11:20:25 PM
You can talk about measures all you want lads but the chain is only as strong as it's weakest link...

Some **** gets tested for the Coronavirus travels to an away game and plays for his team all the while in contact with other people then that evening comes out and tells everyone he has the virus !!!

Yes it's a huge problem and yes we should do what we can to mitigate it but I think at this stage it's far too early to shut everything down let's see how this develops and take appropriate actions when needed rushing to shut the place down could do massive long term damage to people's jobs and livelihoods who may not even be affected by the virus

Dint have to shut everything down but we should stop flights to Itsly, we should postpone paddys day. These are no brainers.

How many events has there been in Ireland since the first case in the north was diagnosed? And since we've known about the virus, how many flights/boats have been stopped going to Britain and beyond? None, postpone Paddy's day! f**k I've heard it now! Next you'll be stopping Mother's Day.

As for the sanitizer, unless it's 70% alcohol it's useless. And only useful if you use it correctly! We touch our face 30 times an hour! Try changing that routine

You are being incredibly contrary. Paddys day is bringing shit loads of visitors from god knows where, its the same logic as why soccer games and rugby games have been postponed already. Large gatherings are a huge risk for one infected person infecting 100s more. The hand washing etc is correct of course but you cannot force people to do that, you can only educate and appeal to their better nature. But sure people like you will probably say what the point washing my hands if someone sneezes in my face, so I wont bother. Mothers day, wise up ta f**k will ya.

People like me who work with the vulnerable in the health sector are constantly using proper procedures daily, long before this virus.

How many sports events have been postponed? Italy v Ireland and the NHL games went ahead yesterday all the PL and soccer divisions played to packed audiences, either they postpone all or none.

Let's see if they postpone the largest gathering of race goers on Tuesday. Mother's Day was a joke wally ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 07:46:44 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 09, 2020, 07:30:46 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 11:43:09 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 08, 2020, 11:37:46 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-japan-bar-crawl-spread-gamagori-a9384541.html?amp

Some people...

Seen a video of people spitting on buttons in a lift and sneezing on purpose in a lift, purposely  spreading the virus. Some People are cnuts

Takes one to know one I suppose.

What was your last name in here? Possibly medical/mental  issues  I'd say.

It's just a forum don't get too wound up, none of it is serious, your views won't change anything. Very aggressive as well, are you like that in real life?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 09, 2020, 07:56:57 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 07:46:44 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 09, 2020, 07:30:46 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 11:43:09 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 08, 2020, 11:37:46 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-japan-bar-crawl-spread-gamagori-a9384541.html?amp

Some people...

Seen a video of people spitting on buttons in a lift and sneezing on purpose in a lift, purposely  spreading the virus. Some People are cnuts

Takes one to know one I suppose.

What was your last name in here? Possibly medical/mental  issues  I'd say.

It's just a forum don't get too wound up, none of it is serious, your views won't change anything. Very aggressive as well, are you like that in real life?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
Just answer the question dickhead

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:42:35 PM

Still not answering? You trolled someone about the flu and now you're avoiding a simple question? You're a dick

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:27:18 PM

Just tell me, ya knob

::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 09, 2020, 08:07:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 07:46:44 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 09, 2020, 07:30:46 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 11:43:09 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 08, 2020, 11:37:46 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-japan-bar-crawl-spread-gamagori-a9384541.html?amp

Some people...

Seen a video of people spitting on buttons in a lift and sneezing on purpose in a lift, purposely  spreading the virus. Some People are cnuts

Takes one to know one I suppose.

What was your last name in here? Possibly medical/mental  issues  I'd say.

It's just a forum don't get too wound up, none of it is serious, your views won't change anything. Very aggressive as well, are you like that in real life?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2013, 11:36:28 AM
Fair play to the lads that are brave enough to tell their stories. Must be like a rollercoaster at times. All different coping methods it seems and as long as they work for you then brilliant. Keep up the fight

But if you call me out on this forum I will use mental health as a way of belittling you, cause I am a lovely guy!   :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 09, 2020, 08:33:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 07:40:07 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 09, 2020, 12:00:44 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 11:36:53 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 08, 2020, 11:27:49 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 08, 2020, 11:20:25 PM
You can talk about measures all you want lads but the chain is only as strong as it's weakest link...

Some **** gets tested for the Coronavirus travels to an away game and plays for his team all the while in contact with other people then that evening comes out and tells everyone he has the virus !!!

Yes it's a huge problem and yes we should do what we can to mitigate it but I think at this stage it's far too early to shut everything down let's see how this develops and take appropriate actions when needed rushing to shut the place down could do massive long term damage to people's jobs and livelihoods who may not even be affected by the virus

Dint have to shut everything down but we should stop flights to Itsly, we should postpone paddys day. These are no brainers.

How many events has there been in Ireland since the first case in the north was diagnosed? And since we've known about the virus, how many flights/boats have been stopped going to Britain and beyond? None, postpone Paddy's day! f**k I've heard it now! Next you'll be stopping Mother's Day.

As for the sanitizer, unless it's 70% alcohol it's useless. And only useful if you use it correctly! We touch our face 30 times an hour! Try changing that routine

You are being incredibly contrary. Paddys day is bringing shit loads of visitors from god knows where, its the same logic as why soccer games and rugby games have been postponed already. Large gatherings are a huge risk for one infected person infecting 100s more. The hand washing etc is correct of course but you cannot force people to do that, you can only educate and appeal to their better nature. But sure people like you will probably say what the point washing my hands if someone sneezes in my face, so I wont bother. Mothers day, wise up ta f**k will ya.

People like me who work with the vulnerable in the health sector are constantly using proper procedures daily, long before this virus.

How many sports events have been postponed? Italy v Ireland and the NHL games went ahead yesterday all the PL and soccer divisions played to packed audiences, either they postpone all or none.

Let's see if they postpone the largest gathering of race goers on Tuesday. Mother's Day was a joke wally ;)

People like who work in the health are notorious for not washing their hands. In fact go into your average hospital and you will normally not even see a place to wash your hands in warm water and soap, its all sanitisers which are not the best practice. Part of the reason that horrible virus's and vomiting bugs run wild in hospital is the poor hygiene there of the staff. However, if you were to work in the Medical Device Industry like me you would be washing your hands with special soaps and warm water every time you enter the manufacturing area and you would be sacked if you were caught not doing it.

No, they probably wont cancel these events but that means they are more worried about their pockets and the economy rather than the old people you look after.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 08:55:28 AM
Trust me in my line of work it's being done, and being done properly for years. But sure you know I'm not  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 09, 2020, 10:00:42 AM
Was in Germany at the weekend.

They are paying little to no heed to this. No screening. You declare yourself if you've been to wherever. No flights stopped from Italy (from looking at Arrivals etc)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 09, 2020, 10:54:21 AM
Good website here with plenty of breakdowns on the details:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


Age of Coronavirus Deaths
COVID-19 Fatality Rate by AGE:
*Death Rate = (number of deaths / number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%). This probability differs depending on the age group. The percentages shown below do not have to add up to 100%, as they do NOT represent share of deaths by age group. Rather, it represents, for a person in a given age group, the risk of dying if infected with COVID-19.

AGE
DEATH RATE
confirmed cases
DEATH RATE
all cases
80+ years old
21.9%
14.8%
70-79 years old
8.0%
60-69 years old
3.6%
50-59 years old
1.3%
40-49 years old
0.4%
30-39 years old
0.2%
20-29 years old
0.2%
10-19 years old
0.2%
0-9 years old   
no fatalities
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 09, 2020, 11:12:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 08:55:28 AM
Trust me in my line of work it's being done, and being done properly for years. But sure you know I'm not  ::)

I've a lot of respect for the nurses and doctors that work under great pressure to help people. All I am saying is that the general level of hygiene in hospitals I have been too is poor. I have a relative in a general ward, you walk in and there is only a hand sanitisers, more often than not it is empty. There is no sink to wash your hands other than in the toilets. I see staff move from one patient to another without changing gloves. This is how disease spreads as you well know yourself. So my point is, I would not be holding up your average hospital as being a shining light on hygiene although I am sure there are departments like ICU that are much better than others.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 11:24:53 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 09, 2020, 11:12:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 08:55:28 AM
Trust me in my line of work it's being done, and being done properly for years. But sure you know I'm not  ::)

I've a lot of respect for the nurses and doctors that work under great pressure to help people. All I am saying is that the general level of hygiene in hospitals I have been too is poor. I have a relative in a general ward, you walk in and there is only a hand sanitisers, more often than not it is empty. There is no sink to wash your hands other than in the toilets. I see staff move from one patient to another without changing gloves. This is how disease spreads as you well know yourself. So my point is, I would not be holding up your average hospital as being a shining light on hygiene although I am sure there are departments like ICU that are much better than others.

I suspect that like many aspects of Irish healthcare there is considerable variation in the system, some hospitals or departments are scrupulous about hygiene, some less so. One good thing now is that there are inspections and this has helped.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 11:30:59 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 09, 2020, 11:12:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 08:55:28 AM
Trust me in my line of work it's being done, and being done properly for years. But sure you know I'm not  ::)

I've a lot of respect for the nurses and doctors that work under great pressure to help people. All I am saying is that the general level of hygiene in hospitals I have been too is poor. I have a relative in a general ward, you walk in and there is only a hand sanitisers, more often than not it is empty. There is no sink to wash your hands other than in the toilets. I see staff move from one patient to another without changing gloves. This is how disease spreads as you well know yourself. So my point is, I would not be holding up your average hospital as being a shining light on hygiene although I am sure there are departments like ICU that are much better than others.

Yes and that's the case where it's not possible to have all those measures, for myself I've my own consultation room with wash sink, and for past 6 years since being here followed the procedure or you could lose your job!

It's routine, people are not in a routine unfortunately.

Control your own environment, if that's me being 'I'm alright jack' then fine but if we all did our own things we'd lessen the spread.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 11:34:38 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 08, 2020, 08:03:24 PM
Ah now we are at the nub of it, basically, it's always someone else's fault.

No.

Its blindingly obvious that in this case, the actions of any individual can only do so much.


Ireland (and the rest of UK) is in the fortunate position of being island large enough to be largely self-sufficient, yet small enough that closing borders was a realistic option. Then, after a few weeks to understand the situation and establish infrastructure & procedures, a small and very controlled amount of people could have been let through, with strict quarantine measures in place.

By keeping the existence of the virus to the border entry points only, the burden on health could be managed. NHS/HSE under too much strain? Reduce the flux through the borders.


That would have had a lower impact on the economy than the massive disruption this will cause on a large scale... unless you think the Italian economy is working full steam this week?


Unfortunately, that option was not considered in time. In another 6-8 weeks, I'll reckon they wish they could turn back time and make a different decision.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 09, 2020, 12:44:47 PM
There's a real doomsday outlook with some people. There's 110k cases worldwide out of 6 billion people. Yes take precautions, wash your hands, self isolate etc but just a small bit of perspective would help as well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on March 09, 2020, 12:45:19 PM
Anyone hear anything about that footballer who tested positive? A few different stories doing the rounds.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 12:45:49 PM
Kids heading off to Amsterdam next weekend, schools sports trip, as of yet no indication that the trip will be cancelled, they are taking information from  government advice on travelling and they are happy enough to go ahead.

I mentioned about the experts we have on this site but they have just waved it off (I jest of course)

The money isn't an issue, their health and that of the others that they would be contact with family wise would be my concern, the only thing i got from a website that i googled on travelling to Holland was don't be buying cocaine!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 12:48:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 12:45:49 PM
Kids heading off to Amsterdam next weekend, schools sports trip, as of yet no indication that the trip will be cancelled, they are taking information from  government advice on travelling and they are happy enough to go ahead.

Danger is probably more passing through the airports than in Holland.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 12:52:47 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 12:48:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 12:45:49 PM
Kids heading off to Amsterdam next weekend, schools sports trip, as of yet no indication that the trip will be cancelled, they are taking information from  government advice on travelling and they are happy enough to go ahead.

Danger is probably more passing through the airports than in Holland.

My thoughts exactly, they are heading off with 72% alcohol based Purell hand rub, no masks!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 09, 2020, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 09, 2020, 12:44:47 PM
There's a real doomsday outlook with some people. There's 110k cases worldwide out of 6 billion people. Yes take precautions, wash your hands, self isolate etc but just a small bit of perspective would help as well.

I hope you are right but my fear is that the infection is exponential, you can carry it for 14 days I believe without symptoms. I would be very surprised if the 110k is not at 1 million cases in 2 weeks time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 12:56:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 09, 2020, 12:44:47 PM
There's 110k cases worldwide out of 6 billion people. Yes take precautions, wash your hands, self isolate etc but just a small bit of perspective would help as well.

I know numbers are not your strong point, so I'll try and make this simple.


Within Italy, there have been 622 recoveries and 366 dead. nDead/(nDead+nRecovered) =  37% death rate, but that number is overly pessimistic.

In the same way taking the overall number of cases (7375) and dividing number of dead by that, i.e. 366/7375 = 5% is overly optimistic.



Even for simple minds, a death rate somewhere between 5% and 37% should be cause for them to shut up and think for a minute or two before going on about "just the flu", "perspective", "hasn't killed as many as"...

Its far more deadly than the flu, it hasn't spread out yet, if drastic action isn't taken it will and it will then "kill many more than"...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 09, 2020, 12:57:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 12:45:49 PM
Kids heading off to Amsterdam next weekend, schools sports trip, as of yet no indication that the trip will be cancelled, they are taking information from  government advice on travelling and they are happy enough to go ahead.

I mentioned about the experts we have on this site but they have just waved it off (I jest of course)

The money isn't an issue, their health and that of the others that they would be contact with family wise would be my concern, the only thing i got from a website that i googled on travelling to Holland was don't be buying cocaine!

There is plenty of schools round my way meant to be heading to Northern Italy in the next month or two. The schools are saying they are going - think there is a bit of brinksmanship going on, if the school pull it, it's loss of money. If the Govt. pull it they are going to be covered. Will be interesting to see what they do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 12:58:40 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 09, 2020, 10:54:21 AM
Age of Coronavirus Deaths
COVID-19 Fatality Rate by AGE:
*Death Rate = (number of deaths / number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%).

That is completely incorrect as it assumes that everyone currently affected by the virus that has not yet died, won't die.


nDead/(nDead+nRecovered) is not right either - as there is a time period between "point-nearest-death" and discharged as recovered that the recovering patient won't contribute to nRecovered, but dying patients will add onto nDead.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 01:00:42 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 09, 2020, 12:57:09 PM
There is plenty of schools round my way meant to be heading to Northern Italy in the next month or two. The schools are saying they are going - think there is a bit of brinksmanship going on, if the school pull it, it's loss of money. If the Govt. pull it they are going to be covered. Will be interesting to see what they do.

Government looking out for its citizens big businesses as usual
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 01:15:52 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 01:00:42 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 09, 2020, 12:57:09 PM
There is plenty of schools round my way meant to be heading to Northern Italy in the next month or two. The schools are saying they are going - think there is a bit of brinksmanship going on, if the school pull it, it's loss of money. If the Govt. pull it they are going to be covered. Will be interesting to see what they do.

Government looking out for its citizens big businesses as usual

Personally I'd not be sending my kids to northern Italy. Not only would it be reckless but the implications further down the road for me could affect co workers wages!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cavan19 on March 09, 2020, 01:26:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 01:15:52 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 01:00:42 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 09, 2020, 12:57:09 PM
There is plenty of schools round my way meant to be heading to Northern Italy in the next month or two. The schools are saying they are going - think there is a bit of brinksmanship going on, if the school pull it, it's loss of money. If the Govt. pull it they are going to be covered. Will be interesting to see what they do.

Government looking out for its citizens big businesses as usual


Personally I'd not be sending my kids to northern Italy. Not only would it be reckless but the implications further down the road for me could affect co workers wages!

I though Northern Italy was basically under lock down at the moment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 09, 2020, 01:32:26 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on March 09, 2020, 01:26:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 01:15:52 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 01:00:42 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 09, 2020, 12:57:09 PM
There is plenty of schools round my way meant to be heading to Northern Italy in the next month or two. The schools are saying they are going - think there is a bit of brinksmanship going on, if the school pull it, it's loss of money. If the Govt. pull it they are going to be covered. Will be interesting to see what they do.

Government looking out for its citizens big businesses as usual


Personally I'd not be sending my kids to northern Italy. Not only would it be reckless but the implications further down the road for me could affect co workers wages!

I though Northern Italy was basically under lock down at the moment.

Nope my child due to go Saturday fly into Milan, travel company says going ahead so 50 kids parents have to decide not to send, all about the money!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on March 09, 2020, 01:54:17 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 12:58:40 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 09, 2020, 10:54:21 AM
Age of Coronavirus Deaths
COVID-19 Fatality Rate by AGE:
*Death Rate = (number of deaths / number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%).

That is completely incorrect as it assumes that everyone currently affected by the virus that has not yet died, won't die.


nDead/(nDead+nRecovered) is not right either - as there is a time period between "point-nearest-death" and discharged as recovered that the recovering patient won't contribute to nRecovered, but dying patients will add onto nDead.

All the % figures have to be taken with a pinch of salt. There's an unquantifiable amount of people who have contracted the virus and have only had minor symptoms so they've never been diagnosed.

My relative in a UK hospital said they've had a planning meeting re how they'll operate when 1/3rd of staff are unavailable.
They really don't want school closures as that will mean a lot of staff having to stay home and mind kids.
He said that it's in poo, so again more on the handwashing being so important.
Reckons too that there have been cases in western European universities where people working on a cure have inadvertently being infected by the samples they are working on. Wouldn't say where!


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NAG1 on March 09, 2020, 02:07:49 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 09, 2020, 01:32:26 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on March 09, 2020, 01:26:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 01:15:52 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 01:00:42 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 09, 2020, 12:57:09 PM
There is plenty of schools round my way meant to be heading to Northern Italy in the next month or two. The schools are saying they are going - think there is a bit of brinksmanship going on, if the school pull it, it's loss of money. If the Govt. pull it they are going to be covered. Will be interesting to see what they do.

Government looking out for its citizens big businesses as usual


Personally I'd not be sending my kids to northern Italy. Not only would it be reckless but the implications further down the road for me could affect co workers wages!

I though Northern Italy was basically under lock down at the moment.

Nope my child due to go Saturday fly into Milan, travel company says going ahead so 50 kids parents have to decide not to send, all about the money!

Apparently until the government say not to travel to a certain area, then insurance won't pay out on cancelled or changed travel plans.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 02:09:22 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 09, 2020, 01:54:17 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 12:58:40 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 09, 2020, 10:54:21 AM
Age of Coronavirus Deaths
COVID-19 Fatality Rate by AGE:
*Death Rate = (number of deaths / number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%).

That is completely incorrect as it assumes that everyone currently affected by the virus that has not yet died, won't die.


nDead/(nDead+nRecovered) is not right either - as there is a time period between "point-nearest-death" and discharged as recovered that the recovering patient won't contribute to nRecovered, but dying patients will add onto nDead.

All the % figures have to be taken with a pinch of salt. There's an unquantifiable amount of people who have contracted the virus and have only had minor symptoms so they've never been diagnosed.

That is true, and unfortunately its a double edge sword*.

Usually said figures are used for putting in context the argument of "its the same as the flu" - in which case the same yardstick applies to it - many go undiagnosed and not part of statistics as they present as very minor symptoms.


*If its a large number of people undiagnosed, then that means mortality rate is lower = good. But it also means many more unsuspecting carriers spreading it around to vulnerable folks. If its a small number of people undiagnosed, then that means mortality rate is higher = bad.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Art Mc Crory’s Sofa on March 09, 2020, 02:10:20 PM
Have heard from a health care worker that due to the pressure on icu in Italy that they're implementing a triage system. Effectively that means everyone above a certain age or with a complicating factor is denied access to ICU and left to fight the disease themselves on a side ward. The vast majority of these patients will invariably die.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 02:10:31 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on March 09, 2020, 02:07:49 PM
Apparently until the government say not to travel to a certain area, then insurance won't pay out on cancelled or changed travel plans.

Indeed.

So just why are the government so reluctant to take the action that would stop the virus coming back en-mass to schools via trips?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 09, 2020, 02:24:21 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 02:10:31 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on March 09, 2020, 02:07:49 PM
Apparently until the government say not to travel to a certain area, then insurance won't pay out on cancelled or changed travel plans.

Indeed.

So just why are the government so reluctant to take the action that would stop the virus coming back en-mass to schools via trips?

Money - when money is involved nothing else matters!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 09, 2020, 02:30:45 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 09, 2020, 02:24:21 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 02:10:31 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on March 09, 2020, 02:07:49 PM
Apparently until the government say not to travel to a certain area, then insurance won't pay out on cancelled or changed travel plans.

Indeed.

So just why are the government so reluctant to take the action that would stop the virus coming back en-mass to schools via trips?

Money - when money is involved nothing else matters!

Yup!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebuzz on March 09, 2020, 02:35:51 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 09, 2020, 01:54:17 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 12:58:40 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 09, 2020, 10:54:21 AM
Age of Coronavirus Deaths
COVID-19 Fatality Rate by AGE:
*Death Rate = (number of deaths / number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%).

That is completely incorrect as it assumes that everyone currently affected by the virus that has not yet died, won't die.


nDead/(nDead+nRecovered) is not right either - as there is a time period between "point-nearest-death" and discharged as recovered that the recovering patient won't contribute to nRecovered, but dying patients will add onto nDead.

All the % figures have to be taken with a pinch of salt. There's an unquantifiable amount of people who have contracted the virus and have only had minor symptoms so they've never been diagnosed.

My relative in a UK hospital said they've had a planning meeting re how they'll operate when 1/3rd of staff are unavailable.
They really don't want school closures as that will mean a lot of staff having to stay home and mind kids.
He said that it's in poo, so again more on the handwashing being so important.
Reckons too that there have been cases in western European universities where people working on a cure have inadvertently being infected by the samples they are working on. Wouldn't say where!

Hound the main method of transmission is most definitely not via poo.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 02:35:56 PM
Firstly, the ski resorts in the locked down area of Italy as closed, so you cannot go there. Resorts near the French and Austrian borders are in less affected areas.
People have to exercise responsibility, just because you paid for it doesn't mean you have to go.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 09, 2020, 02:46:34 PM
Dublin St Patricks Day Parade cancelled
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 02:50:54 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 09, 2020, 02:46:34 PM
Dublin St Patricks Day Parade cancelled

The issue with this is that if you cancel a parade with x number of people at it, not Dublin but a smaller place, then how can you justify having games with x attending or other big events?

In reality the parade was less dangerous than the pubs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on March 09, 2020, 03:08:56 PM
Quote from: thebuzz on March 09, 2020, 02:35:51 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 09, 2020, 01:54:17 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 12:58:40 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 09, 2020, 10:54:21 AM
Age of Coronavirus Deaths
COVID-19 Fatality Rate by AGE:
*Death Rate = (number of deaths / number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%).

That is completely incorrect as it assumes that everyone currently affected by the virus that has not yet died, won't die.


nDead/(nDead+nRecovered) is not right either - as there is a time period between "point-nearest-death" and discharged as recovered that the recovering patient won't contribute to nRecovered, but dying patients will add onto nDead.

All the % figures have to be taken with a pinch of salt. There's an unquantifiable amount of people who have contracted the virus and have only had minor symptoms so they've never been diagnosed.

My relative in a UK hospital said they've had a planning meeting re how they'll operate when 1/3rd of staff are unavailable.
They really don't want school closures as that will mean a lot of staff having to stay home and mind kids.
He said that it's in poo, so again more on the handwashing being so important.
Reckons too that there have been cases in western European universities where people working on a cure have inadvertently being infected by the samples they are working on. Wouldn't say where!

Hound the main method of transmission is most definitely not via poo.
I never said it was the main method! Everyone already knows the main method is via coughing and sneezing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 03:10:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 02:50:54 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 09, 2020, 02:46:34 PM
Dublin St Patricks Day Parade cancelled

The issue with this is that if you cancel a parade with x number of people at it, not Dublin but a smaller place, then how can you justify having games with x attending or other big events?

In reality the parade was less dangerous than the pubs.

Games are fixed for Croke Park next weekend, Antrim playing Kerry in league final! huge game for both teams, no doubt a big enough crowd form both counties and neutrals heading to Croke, now they'll all be mingling around the pubs and cafes and travelling down/up in buses .

Do we cancel it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 09, 2020, 03:16:40 PM
Won't those pesky foreigners coming for St Patrick's Day, still come anyway? I'd imagine they've booked months in advance and will probably lose their money, which I'd imagine is quite a bit! (If coming from the US, Canada etc)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 09, 2020, 03:17:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 02:35:56 PM
Firstly, the ski resorts in the locked down area of Italy as closed, so you cannot go there. Resorts near the French and Austrian borders are in less affected areas.
People have to exercise responsibility, just because you paid for it doesn't mean you have to go.

What about travel agencies and governments exercising responsibility, what's the point of flying in somewhere and not been able to go to your resort, fact is if flights are allowed in travel agencies don't have to facilitate refunds, it's all about money. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on March 09, 2020, 03:19:19 PM
I see Trump has gone the "it's not as bad as flu" route with his latest tweet

So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 09, 2020, 03:21:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 03:10:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 02:50:54 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 09, 2020, 02:46:34 PM
Dublin St Patricks Day Parade cancelled

The issue with this is that if you cancel a parade with x number of people at it, not Dublin but a smaller place, then how can you justify having games with x attending or other big events?

In reality the parade was less dangerous than the pubs.

Games are fixed for Croke Park next weekend, Antrim playing Kerry in league final! huge game for both teams, no doubt a big enough crowd form both counties and neutrals heading to Croke, now they'll all be mingling around the pubs and cafes and travelling down/up in buses .

Do we cancel it?

The GAA will be under pressure to be seen to be doing something. But it's their stadium, their event. Can/Do/Will the Government influence the GAA?

The NFL finals are due at the end of the month, you are talking 30-40k people there. That is big money for Dublin in March especially now with the St Patricks Day cancellations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 03:32:32 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 09, 2020, 03:17:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 02:35:56 PM
Firstly, the ski resorts in the locked down area of Italy as closed, so you cannot go there. Resorts near the French and Austrian borders are in less affected areas.
People have to exercise responsibility, just because you paid for it doesn't mean you have to go.

What about travel agencies and governments exercising responsibility, what's the point of flying in somewhere and not been able to go to your resort, fact is if flights are allowed in travel agencies don't have to facilitate refunds, it's all about money.

Whatever about governments, travel agents are a business, their job is to make arrangements not decide whether you should go.
There is a set of places between those the government says "don't go, whoever you are" and those places where it is appropriate to go at present. It isn't quite black and whate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 09, 2020, 03:35:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 03:32:32 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 09, 2020, 03:17:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 02:35:56 PM
Firstly, the ski resorts in the locked down area of Italy as closed, so you cannot go there. Resorts near the French and Austrian borders are in less affected areas.
People have to exercise responsibility, just because you paid for it doesn't mean you have to go.

What about travel agencies and governments exercising responsibility, what's the point of flying in somewhere and not been able to go to your resort, fact is if flights are allowed in travel agencies don't have to facilitate refunds, it's all about money.

Whatever about governments, travel agents are a business, their job is to make arrangements not decide whether you should go.
There is a set of places between those the government says "don't go, whoever you are" and those places where it is appropriate to go at present. It isn't quite black and whate.

My child's school spoke to 9 public health and education authorities, no one will make a decision, it's unfair that the principal in the end will have to call it off.  Just heard a GAA player in a a northern club tested positive so in the end no one will probably escape.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: angermanagement on March 09, 2020, 03:37:39 PM
Belfast GAA club  in lock down as a precaution.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 03:38:55 PM
(https://sluggerotoole.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Reactions.png)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 09, 2020, 03:55:42 PM
France v Ireland rugby off.

I am sensing there must be a big spike on the horizon as suddenly action is being taken.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 09, 2020, 04:01:05 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on March 09, 2020, 03:37:39 PM
Belfast GAA club  in lock down as a precaution.

Block MR2 from the discussion.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 09, 2020, 04:06:44 PM
His contribution to date has been invaluable!  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 09, 2020, 04:07:36 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on March 09, 2020, 03:37:39 PM
Belfast GAA club  in lock down as a precaution.

Was a case in Queens wasn't there last week did I read correctly? Inevitable I suppose - could be some lads sister or brother, anything.. What is the club?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 09, 2020, 04:17:40 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 09, 2020, 04:07:36 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on March 09, 2020, 03:37:39 PM
Belfast GAA club  in lock down as a precaution.

Was a case in Queens wasn't there last week did I read correctly? Inevitable I suppose - could be some lads sister or brother, anything.. What is the club?

It was a girl. From Craigavon. Thats all I know. Had visited the library
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on March 09, 2020, 04:18:14 PM
St galls
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 04:31:53 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 09, 2020, 04:01:05 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on March 09, 2020, 03:37:39 PM
Belfast GAA club  in lock down as a precaution.

Block MR2 from the discussion.....

Was told first thing this morning! But wouldn't go further with it, I haven't been in the club but we've taken measures to shut things down and stop all activities till further noticed, all the heath agency's have been notified so we'll follow their lead. That's Paddy's day cancelled
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: nearlymad on March 09, 2020, 04:45:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 04:31:53 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 09, 2020, 04:01:05 PM
Quote from: angermanagement on March 09, 2020, 03:37:39 PM
Belfast GAA club  in lock down as a precaution.

Block MR2 from the discussion.....

Was told first thing this morning! But wouldn't go further with it, I haven't been in the club but we've taken measures to shut things down and stop all activities till further noticed, all the heath agency's have been notified so we'll follow their lead. That's Paddy's day cancelled
Good decision by the Club.There's plenty of other watering holes for your St Paddys day
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 09, 2020, 04:52:43 PM
She's moving fast now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on March 09, 2020, 05:04:32 PM
Can you catch the virus twice?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 09, 2020, 05:09:17 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 09, 2020, 05:04:32 PM
Can you catch the virus twice?

Yes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on March 09, 2020, 05:27:13 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 09, 2020, 04:52:43 PM
She's moving fast now.

Two County Armagh schools have been closed for a deep clean after a student tested positive for coronavirus.
Newtownhamilton High School and primary school are both located on the same site in the town.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 05:41:55 PM
Quote from: nearlymad on March 09, 2020, 04:45:23 PM
Good decision by the Club.There's plenty of other watering holes for your St Paddys day

What pub would allow a St Galls member in when they should in isolation?

Quote from: imtommygunn on March 09, 2020, 05:09:17 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 09, 2020, 05:04:32 PM
Can you catch the virus twice?

Yes.

This is uncertain at present.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 09, 2020, 05:47:41 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/08/complacent-governments-will-torn-shreds-coronavirus-quake-reshapes/

"In this country, Brexit scarcely matters right now. Decimal points of GDP are irrelevant. Boris Johnson will be judged on whether or not his administration allows avoidable decimation of the elderly – and the not so elderly – and whether the National Health Service buckles in catastrophic institutional failure.

Korea has six times as many intensive care (ICU) beds per capita, and Germany four times as many. What we know so far from Lombardy is that 13pc of infected patients require ICU treatment, typically for two to three weeks. "

Most of the dead will be Tory voters.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 09, 2020, 05:55:28 PM
Folks any advice for a tradesman/sole trader regarding health insurance. If I had to take say a couple of weeks off due to Corona virus (working in London), it's highly unlikely I'd get paid as not PAYE. My insurance doesn't seem to cover epidemics like this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 09, 2020, 05:57:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 05:41:55 PM
Quote from: nearlymad on March 09, 2020, 04:45:23 PM
Good decision by the Club.There's plenty of other watering holes for your St Paddys day

What pub would allow a St Galls member in when they should in isolation?

Quote from: imtommygunn on March 09, 2020, 05:09:17 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 09, 2020, 05:04:32 PM
Can you catch the virus twice?

Yes.

This is uncertain at present.

There was a case was there not or is that unproven so far?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 05:57:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 05:41:55 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 09, 2020, 05:09:17 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 09, 2020, 05:04:32 PM
Can you catch the virus twice?

Yes.

This is uncertain at present.

I think its been observed several times in China and also in Japan.

I believe current thinking is it doesn't infect the same way twice, but you can still get it twice. A google of that may turn up more.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 06:06:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 05:57:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 05:41:55 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 09, 2020, 05:09:17 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 09, 2020, 05:04:32 PM
Can you catch the virus twice?

Yes.

This is uncertain at present.

I think its been observed several times in China and also in Japan.

I believe current thinking is it doesn't infect the same way twice, but you can still get it twice. A google of that may turn up more.

It is suspected that some of these cases were people who hadn't fully recovered in the first place.
Better tests are needed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 09, 2020, 06:06:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 09, 2020, 03:55:42 PM
France v Ireland rugby off.

I am sensing there must be a big spike on the horizon as suddenly action is being taken.

Spanish cases have doubled in the last day, they're over 1000 now. It sounds like there's a big spike coming here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 09, 2020, 06:06:48 PM
I'm New York for paddies. Advice lads
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 06:06:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 05:41:55 PM
Quote from: nearlymad on March 09, 2020, 04:45:23 PM
Good decision by the Club.There's plenty of other watering holes for your St Paddys day

What pub would allow a St Galls member in when they should in isolation?

Quote from: imtommygunn on March 09, 2020, 05:09:17 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 09, 2020, 05:04:32 PM
Can you catch the virus twice?

Yes.

This is uncertain at present.

You could have it and not have symptoms, the person wasn't in the affected area, so self isolation wouldn't have been necessary unless the symptoms were quick I'd assume.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on March 09, 2020, 06:12:37 PM
All kicking off now, I'd expect numbers to double and triple each day now for a while
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 09, 2020, 07:15:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 09, 2020, 06:06:48 PM
I'm New York for paddies. Advice lads

Answered you in the other thread:

Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2020, 07:12:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 09, 2020, 06:40:37 PM
I'm for new york. What's people's thoughts with this virus?

Its just starting to ramp up here in NYC and given the cheek-to-jowel existence, the numbers will climb fairly rapidly. I wouldn't rule out the parade being cancelled yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 09, 2020, 07:21:32 PM
San Fran parade on Saturday is cancelled
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 09, 2020, 07:22:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2020, 07:15:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 09, 2020, 06:06:48 PM
I'm New York for paddies. Advice lads

Answered you in the other thread:

Quote from: J70 on March 09, 2020, 07:12:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 09, 2020, 06:40:37 PM
I'm for new york. What's people's thoughts with this virus?

Its just starting to ramp up here in NYC and given the cheek-to-jowel existence, the numbers will climb fairly rapidly. I wouldn't rule out the parade being cancelled yet.

Thanks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 07:49:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 09, 2020, 06:06:48 PM
I'm New York for paddies. Advice lads

Is your ticket refundable? I wouldn't travel if I were you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 07:55:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 07:49:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 09, 2020, 06:06:48 PM
I'm New York for paddies. Advice lads

Is your ticket refundable? I wouldn't travel if I were you.

This might be around the right colour

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/SW4AAOSw4pJeLgy0/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 09, 2020, 08:03:19 PM
It's very confusing, I can't fathom how serious it all is . Quick question ,albeit it's a selfish one . In the construction sector we have a shitty enough pension we pay into every week , this also has a sick pay , we get so much per day for up to 50 days per year I think it is , if sites are forced to close would we be able to claim this ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 09, 2020, 08:12:42 PM

https://twitter.com/silviast9/status/1236933818654896129


Silvia Stringhini

@silviast9


1/ I may be repeating myself, but I want to fight this sense of security that I see outside of the epicenters, as if nothing was going to happen "here". The media in Europe are reassuring, politicians are reassuring, while there's little to be reassured of. #COVID19 #coronavirus

2/This is the English translation of a post of another ICU physician in Bergamo, Dr. Daniele Macchini. Read until the end "After much thought about whether and what to write about what is happening to us, I felt that silence was not responsible.

3/ I will therefore try to convey to people far from our reality what we are living in Bergamo in these days of Covid-19 pandemic. I understand the need not to create panic, but when the message of the dangerousness of what is happening does not reach people I shudder.

4/ I myself watched with some amazement the reorganization of the entire hospital in the past week, when our current enemy was still in the shadows: the wards slowly "emptied", elective activitieswere interrupted, intensive care were freed up to create as many beds as possible.

5/ All this rapid transformation brought an atmosphere of silence and surreal emptiness to the corridors of the hospital that we did not yet understand, waiting for a war that was yet to begin and that many (including me) were not so sure would ever come with such ferocity.

6/ I still remember my night call a week ago when I was waiting for the results of a swab. When I think about it, my anxiety over one possible case seems almost ridiculous and unjustified, now that I've seen what's happening. Well, the situation now is dramatic to say the least.

7/ The war has literally exploded and battles are uninterrupted day and night. But now that need for beds has arrived in all its drama. One after the other the departments that had been emptied fill up at an impressive pace.

8/ The boards with the names of the patients, of different colours depending on the operating unit, are now all red and instead of surgery you see the diagnosis, which is always the damned same: bilateral interstitial pneumonia.

9/ Now, explain to me which flu virus causes such a rapid drama. [post continues comparing covid19 to flu, link below]. And while there are still people who boast of not being afraid by ignoring directions, protesting because their normal routine is"temporarily" put in crisis,

10/ the epidemiological disaster is taking place. And there are no more surgeons, urologists, orthopedists, we are only doctors who suddenly become part of a single team to face this tsunami that has overwhelmed us.

11/ Cases are multiplying, we arrive at a rate of 15-20 admissions per day all for the same reason. The results of the swabs now come one after the other: positive, positive, positive. Suddenly the E.R. is collapsing.

12/ Reasons for the access always the same: fever and breathing difficulties, fever and cough, respiratory failure. Radiology reports always the same: bilateral interstitial pneumonia, bilateral interstitial pneumonia, bilateral interstitial pneumonia. All to be hospitalized.

13/ Someone already to be intubated and go to intensive care. For others it's too late... Every ventilator becomes like gold: those in operating theatres that have now suspended their non-urgent activity become intensive care places that did not exist before.

14/ The staff is exhausted. I saw the tiredness on faces that didn't know what it was despite the already exhausting workloads they had. I saw a solidarity of all of us, who never failed to go to our internist colleagues to ask "what can I do for you now?"

15/ Doctors who move beds and transfer patients, who administer therapies instead of nurses. Nurses with tears in their eyes because we can't save everyone, and the vital parameters of several patients at the same time reveal an already marked destiny.

16/ There are no more shifts, no more hours. Social life is suspended for us. We no longer see our families for fear of infecting them. Some of us have already become infected despite the protocols.

17/ Some of our colleagues who are infected also have infected relatives and some of their relatives are already struggling between life and death. So be patient, you can't go to the theatre, museums or the gym. Try to have pity on the myriad of old people you could exterminate.

18/ We just try to make ourselves useful. You should do the same: we influence the life a
d death of a few dozen people. You with yours, many more. Please share this message. We must spread the word to prevent what is happening here from happening all over Italy."

20/ I finish by saying that I really don't understand this war on panic. The only reason I see is mask shortages, but there's no mask on sale anymore. We don't have a lot of studies, but is it panic really worse than neglect and carelessness during an epidemic of this sort?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 09, 2020, 08:46:25 PM
Belfast st Patrick's day off now too. If the holylands could become a quarantined zone, that would be great.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 09, 2020, 08:56:06 PM
Italy has now officially taken the roads in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 09:02:43 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 09, 2020, 08:03:19 PM
It's very confusing, I can't fathom how serious it all is . Quick question ,albeit it's a selfish one . In the construction sector we have a shitty enough pension we pay into every week , this also has a sick pay , we get so much per day for up to 50 days per year I think it is , if sites are forced to close would we be able to claim this ?

Actually, construction is one area which might be able to carry on. A lot of the work is in the open air and people are not that close together and often already wear masks, gloves and goggles. Not the first to close, I would have thought.
Can't help on the question.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 09, 2020, 09:23:08 PM
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/coronavirus-whole-of-italy-to-be-put-on-lockdown-pm-announces-1.4197780?mode=amp

The whole of Italy is to be put under lockdown to deal with Coronavirus, the prime minister Giuseppe Conte announced on Monday.

He will move to extend restrictive measures on travel -- currently in force in the north -- throughout the rest of the country in a bid to limit the spread of the coronavirus after the number of cases soared by 25 per cent. He also said all public gatherings will be banned.

He said movement will be restricted all over Italy. He said the decision is needed to defend most fragile members of community. Mr Conte said people should not move other than for work and emergencies. He said sporting events including soccer matches will be suspended. Mr Conte said public transport will remain operational

Italy on Monday reported 463 deaths from the virus an increase of 97 from Sunday.

The extension comes after the government imposed a virtual lockdown at the weekend on the northern region of Lombardy and parts of neighbouring Veneto, Piedmont and Emilia-Romagna to try to slow the spread of the virus.

Deputy economy minister Antonio Misiani said the government might also consider a moratorium on companies' payments of tax and welfare contributions.

Rome has already said it will pay self-employed workers in the areas worst hit by the virus €500 a month for the next three months to help make up for lost income

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tintin25 on March 09, 2020, 09:31:39 PM
There'll be some amount swinging the lead now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 09:38:21 PM
Quote from: tintin25 on March 09, 2020, 09:31:39 PM
There'll be some amount swinging the lead now

Aye for 500 hundred a month you'll be lording it!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 09, 2020, 10:01:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 06:06:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 05:57:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 05:41:55 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 09, 2020, 05:09:17 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 09, 2020, 05:04:32 PM
Can you catch the virus twice?

Yes.

This is uncertain at present.

I think its been observed several times in China and also in Japan.

I believe current thinking is it doesn't infect the same way twice, but you can still get it twice. A google of that may turn up more.

It is suspected that some of these cases were people who hadn't fully recovered in the first place.
Better tests are needed.
The Spanish flu in 1918 had a second wave
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 09, 2020, 10:05:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 07:49:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 09, 2020, 06:06:48 PM
I'm New York for paddies. Advice lads

Is your ticket refundable? I wouldn't travel if I were you.

Not refundable unless govt advises against travel there apparently
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 09, 2020, 10:20:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 09, 2020, 10:05:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 07:49:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 09, 2020, 06:06:48 PM
I'm New York for paddies. Advice lads

Is your ticket refundable? I wouldn't travel if I were you.

Not refundable unless govt advises against travel there apparently

Anything from your insurance? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omagh_gael on March 09, 2020, 10:29:36 PM
What's the chances of the championship not going ahead this year? There will inevitably a lock down similar to Italy at some stage that could last for an unknown length of time. Surely this will effect sporting events for many months.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 09, 2020, 10:34:25 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 09, 2020, 10:20:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 09, 2020, 10:05:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 09, 2020, 07:49:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 09, 2020, 06:06:48 PM
I'm New York for paddies. Advice lads

Is your ticket refundable? I wouldn't travel if I were you.

Not refundable unless govt advises against travel there apparently

Anything from your insurance?

I only started to worry a bit today, I'll ring thrm tomorrow
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 09, 2020, 10:35:25 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 09, 2020, 10:29:36 PM
What's the chances of the championship not going ahead this year? There will inevitably a lock down similar to Italy at some stage that could last for an unknown length of time. Surely this will effect sporting events for many months.
It depends on how fast the virus replicates.
The worse case scenario is 80% infected with 3% mortality.
If that happened the championship would be off.
National quarantine as in Italy is designed to slow down the replication of the virus and might only need a month or so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 10:35:49 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 09, 2020, 10:29:36 PM
What's the chances of the championship not going ahead this year? There will inevitably a lock down similar to Italy at some stage that could last for an unknown length of time. Surely this will effect sporting events for many months.

Many months?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 09, 2020, 10:38:05 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 09, 2020, 05:55:28 PM
Folks any advice for a tradesman/sole trader regarding health insurance. If I had to take say a couple of weeks off due to Corona virus (working in London), it's highly unlikely I'd get paid as not PAYE. My insurance doesn't seem to cover epidemics like this.
Governments are setting up schemes to compensate workers inconvenienced by the virus. The UK budget will probably address this

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-sick-pay-scheme-will-see-affected-receive-305-per-week-1.4197894
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 09, 2020, 10:39:28 PM
Halifax call centre in Belfast closed tomorrow for a deep clean
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on March 09, 2020, 10:49:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 09, 2020, 10:01:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 06:06:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 05:57:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 05:41:55 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 09, 2020, 05:09:17 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 09, 2020, 05:04:32 PM
Can you catch the virus twice?

Yes.

This is uncertain at present.

I think its been observed several times in China and also in Japan.

I believe current thinking is it doesn't infect the same way twice, but you can still get it twice. A google of that may turn up more.

It is suspected that some of these cases were people who hadn't fully recovered in the first place.
Better tests are needed.
The Spanish flu in 1918 had a second wave

And a 3rd wave
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 10:50:31 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 09, 2020, 10:39:28 PM
Halifax call centre in Belfast closed tomorrow for a deep clean

My place of work being closed for a day for a deep clean would have two benefits.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 09, 2020, 10:54:24 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/09/entire-country-italy-placed-quarantine-prime-minister-announces/

Slovakia announced that it was banning all cultural, sporting and other public events for two weeks to try to halt the spread of the virus, while Cyprus reported its first two cases.

2 weeks won't be enough. Not looking good for the 26th of March
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 10:59:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 10:35:49 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 09, 2020, 10:29:36 PM
What's the chances of the championship not going ahead this year? There will inevitably a lock down similar to Italy at some stage that could last for an unknown length of time. Surely this will effect sporting events for many months.

Many months?

Nobody is quite sure, but many months seems very likely. In fact, many months would be a success as it would suggest that the numbers had been spread out enough to keep the health service afloat.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 11:34:51 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 09, 2020, 11:03:06 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 11:34:38 AM
Ireland (and the rest of UK) is in the fortunate position of being island large enough to be largely self-sufficient, yet small enough that closing borders was a realistic option. Then, after a few weeks to understand the situation and establish infrastructure & procedures, a small and very controlled amount of people could have been let through, with strict quarantine measures in place.
First, "Ireland (and the rest of UK)"?  :o
Second, how does "largely self-sufficient" apply in the greater scheme of things here? For example, the UK cannot produce enough food to sufficiently feed its resident population and in fact hasn't been able to do so for nearly two centuries (at present it only produces around 55% of consumption) so rationing would almost certainly have to be brought in there. Does the shutting of border outlets work both ways, or just going in? How does potential urgent repatriation of Irish & British citizens be possibly accommodated, let alone those whom are outside the country on a short term basis when the announcement is made of the border being shut (e.g. Lorry drivers)? Is the closure effectively sealed, or is a limited amount of material & goods allowed to be imported (e.g. essential medical supplies that aren't manufactured locally)? Also, within the local context here, how does the border between NI & ROI be managed, and would there be restrictions on travel between NI & GB? The foot & mouth crises of 2001 would appear to suggest that significant action would be taken in both cases to restrict people's movement. That then falls on to knock-on effects that such decisions have at least in the short term on work & economic activity?

TBF it's unreasonable to expect a lot of concise, clear answers for such a scenario which has no clear direction as to how it might take. But it should still be reasonable to demonstrate what basic contingency measures should be in place.and not just

I don't think controls on people arise directly either cross border or cross channel. Mingling of people will be discouraged within towns as much as  people coming from England. Unless there comes about a large difference in the spread of the disease in different places a person going from Dublin to Wexford is as dangerous as one going to Liverpool.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 11:37:09 PM
London Marathon must be next to be cancelled
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 09, 2020, 11:50:27 PM
Time to set up quarantine centres and mandatory testing at airports and ports.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 09, 2020, 11:53:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 09, 2020, 11:50:27 PM
Time to set up quarantine centres and mandatory testing at airports and ports.

Time to close pubs and discos.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 12:09:36 AM
Japan quarantining arrivals from China and Korea

Israel banning all foreign arrivals for 2 weeks

Are we doing anything remotely like that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omagh_gael on March 10, 2020, 12:28:22 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 10:35:49 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 09, 2020, 10:29:36 PM
What's the chances of the championship not going ahead this year? There will inevitably a lock down similar to Italy at some stage that could last for an unknown length of time. Surely this will effect sporting events for many months.

Many months?

Look at Hubei and China as a whole, still large swathes of forced/advised isolation. When will they begin to open up? Surely a big chance of a second wave at some point too with infections now coming into China from people travelling there from other parts of the world.

If this takes off close to the medium to worse case scenario then I could foresee things like large sporting events being impacted for many months.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 10, 2020, 12:40:50 AM
Formula 1 will be up the left, that's for sure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 12:43:40 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 10, 2020, 12:40:50 AM
Formula 1 will be up the left, that's for sure.

Surely Euro 2020, Tokyo Olympics are in jeopardy?

As could the All Ireland championships.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 10, 2020, 05:48:10 AM
https://medium.com/@edwardnirenberg/sars-cov-2-and-the-lessons-we-have-to-learn-from-it-e2017fd5d3c
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 10, 2020, 07:35:31 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 12:09:36 AM
Japan quarantining arrivals from China and Korea

Israel banning all foreign arrivals for 2 weeks

Are we doing anything remotely like that?

Yes we are cancelling st Patrick's day parades and sending people into enclosed pubs instead
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aaron Boone on March 10, 2020, 07:47:49 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 10, 2020, 07:35:31 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 12:09:36 AM
Japan quarantining arrivals from China and Korea

Israel banning all foreign arrivals for 2 weeks

Are we doing anything remotely like that?

Yes we are cancelling st Patrick's day parades and sending people into enclosed pubs instead
Although GAA still have a large event ongoing 1 mile from the cancelled parade: Under 20 semis in Croker.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 10, 2020, 08:35:53 AM
I thought Simon Coveney looked well shook last night on Claire Byrne live. Its like he only realised yesterday the shit storm at our doorstep. I am afraid the only sensible option now is basically to cancel everything - GAA, Soccer, Rugby, Concerts, Pubs etc. I see no point in waiting for it to get worse (inevitable) before doing these things. Why not do it now? This is how China has gotten things back in the right direction, why wouldn't we do it as a preventative act instead of a reactionary act.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on March 10, 2020, 08:43:49 AM
I saw the start of claire Byrne last night and I got my eyes opened. It is worrying what the next 4/5 weeks could have in store for us.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 10, 2020, 08:47:13 AM
It really does defy belief that Cheltenham is going ahead.

Looks like Boris is going to wait as long as possible to take action in case it annoys his buddies in the City
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on March 10, 2020, 08:57:30 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 10:35:49 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 09, 2020, 10:29:36 PM
What's the chances of the championship not going ahead this year? There will inevitably a lock down similar to Italy at some stage that could last for an unknown length of time. Surely this will effect sporting events for many months.

Many months?

It could be 12 months or more before there is a chance it will be gone.  Varadkar wasn't optimistic chatting yesterday, saying there could be 85,000 deaths in Ireland.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 10, 2020, 09:08:56 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 11:34:38 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 08, 2020, 08:03:24 PM
Ah now we are at the nub of it, basically, it's always someone else's fault.

No.

Its blindingly obvious that in this case, the actions of any individual can only do so much.


Ireland (and the rest of UK) is in the fortunate position of being island large enough to be largely self-sufficient, yet small enough that closing borders was a realistic option. Then, after a few weeks to understand the situation and establish infrastructure & procedures, a small and very controlled amount of people could have been let through, with strict quarantine measures in place.

By keeping the existence of the virus to the border entry points only, the burden on health could be managed. NHS/HSE under too much strain? Reduce the flux through the borders.


That would have had a lower impact on the economy than the massive disruption this will cause on a large scale... unless you think the Italian economy is working full steam this week?


Unfortunately, that option was not considered in time. In another 6-8 weeks, I'll reckon they wish they could turn back time and make a different decision.

Utter nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 10, 2020, 09:11:45 AM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 09, 2020, 11:03:06 PM
First, "Ireland (and the rest of UK)"?  :o

Clumsy way of saying these islands.

Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 09, 2020, 11:03:06 PM
Second, how does "largely self-sufficient" apply in the greater scheme of things here? For example, the UK cannot produce enough food to sufficiently feed its resident population and in fact hasn't been able to do so for nearly two centuries (at present it only produces around 55% of consumption) so rationing would almost certainly have to be brought in there.

So be it. Would also fix the obesity problem!



Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 09, 2020, 11:03:06 PM
Does the shutting of border outlets work both ways, or just going in?

Just going in, you can leave, but be aware that if you come back, your going through the same tight several week quarantine system.

Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 09, 2020, 11:03:06 PM
How does potential urgent repatriation of Irish & British citizens be possibly accommodated, let alone those whom are outside the country on a short term basis when the announcement is made of the border being shut (e.g. Lorry drivers)?

Coming back from anywhere more than 200 miles from a known corona virus case and you are likely OK.

Any less and you are in quarantine.

If that means a bit of buffering before taking everyone back, so be it.


Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 09, 2020, 11:03:06 PM
Is the closure effectively sealed, or is a limited amount of material & goods allowed to be imported (e.g. essential medical supplies that aren't manufactured locally)? Also, within the local context here, how does the border between NI & ROI be managed, and would there be restrictions on travel between NI & GB? The foot & mouth crises of 2001 would appear to suggest that significant action would be taken in both cases to restrict people's movement. That then falls on to knock-on effects that such decisions have at least in the short term on work & economic activity?

Goods are OK, they can sit for a period before moving on or the containers can be disinfected and I don't believe there are any known cases of transmission via goods yet.

A sealed good should be OK due to hygiene regulations on the source side.




The idea that even yesterday, the HSE was saying don't travel to parts of Northern Italy, but the rest is uncommented on is ludicrous. The idea that anyone coming back from continental Europe right now is not in isolation is madness. What on earth do they expect to happen?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 10, 2020, 09:13:14 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 09:08:56 AM
Utter nonsense.

Thanks for yet another valuable contribution there tinfoil hat.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on March 10, 2020, 09:24:13 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 09:08:56 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 09, 2020, 11:34:38 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 08, 2020, 08:03:24 PM
Ah now we are at the nub of it, basically, it's always someone else's fault.

No.

Its blindingly obvious that in this case, the actions of any individual can only do so much.


Ireland (and the rest of UK) is in the fortunate position of being island large enough to be largely self-sufficient, yet small enough that closing borders was a realistic option. Then, after a few weeks to understand the situation and establish infrastructure & procedures, a small and very controlled amount of people could have been let through, with strict quarantine measures in place.

By keeping the existence of the virus to the border entry points only, the burden on health could be managed. NHS/HSE under too much strain? Reduce the flux through the borders.


That would have had a lower impact on the economy than the massive disruption this will cause on a large scale... unless you think the Italian economy is working full steam this week?


Unfortunately, that option was not considered in time. In another 6-8 weeks, I'll reckon they wish they could turn back time and make a different decision.

Utter nonsense.

We should be locking down the country now as what Italy are currently doing. It will be too late doing it in 4-5 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 10, 2020, 09:27:43 AM
Now is the time to do it IMO. 4 or 5 weeks time and the horse has bolted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 09:34:10 AM
End of days stuff, the making of a great film.

Was talking to a fella yesterday, retired business man, said if Ireland locked down for 2/3 weeks the economy wouldn't recover, he said the Germans would still be looking their money
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 10:09:25 AM
Quote from: Taylor on March 10, 2020, 08:47:13 AM
It really does defy belief that Cheltenham is going ahead.

Looks like Boris is going to wait as long as possible to take action in case it annoys his buddies in the City

Yep and yep.

Thousands of Irish there and could bring it home. As well as everywhere else.

And yes, that's it in a nutshell.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 10, 2020, 10:25:34 AM
It really is the worst possible prime minister for such a scenario.

(You could take the last 4 words away there too).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 10, 2020, 10:29:26 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-keep-watch-on-evolving-situation-as-fears-grow-for-league-1.4197786
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 10, 2020, 11:37:02 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 09:34:10 AM
End of days stuff, the making of a great film.

Was talking to a fella yesterday, retired business man, said if Ireland locked down for 2/3 weeks the economy wouldn't recover, he said the Germans would still be looking their money

He was talking bollix. The economy will recover rightly. The Germans have the same problem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 10, 2020, 11:40:08 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 10, 2020, 11:37:02 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 09:34:10 AM
End of days stuff, the making of a great film.

Was talking to a fella yesterday, retired business man, said if Ireland locked down for 2/3 weeks the economy wouldn't recover, he said the Germans would still be looking their money

He was talking bollix. The economy will recover rightly. The Germans have the same problem.
All the more reason for them to look for their money.

There are lots of people that the loss of 2 weeks earnings will put them under.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on March 10, 2020, 11:41:39 AM
Appears that the life of this is 6 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 10, 2020, 11:50:37 AM
What keeps the economy going if the country shuts down for 4-6 weeks? I could work with 2 weeks self isolation. But if it is 4-6 weeks complete quarantine and our business stops what should I do? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
But if it's lockdown , business shuts, council's will hardly get their rents, staff don't get paid , be pretty much close shop ,open shop six weeks later back to normal, govt lose a few quid from emergency fund .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 10, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
But if it's lockdown , business shuts, council's will hardly get their rents, staff don't get paid , be pretty much close shop ,open shop six weeks later back to normal, govt lose a few quid from emergency fund .

What about staff who need to pay for things like food, heat, light, mortgage, cars? Are you f**king serious? It would be carnage!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
But if it's lockdown , business shuts, council's will hardly get their rents, staff don't get paid , be pretty much close shop ,open shop six weeks later back to normal, govt lose a few quid from emergency fund .

What about staff who need to pay for things like food, heat, light, mortgage, cars? Are you f**king serious? It would be carnage!

Thousands coming back from Cheltenham isnt going to help this!

Stop and quarantine at entry points. The country can run smoothly as normal if it's contained at ports/airports. If they don't do that, we will have an Italy style lockdown in a week or two. Now that would be carnage!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 10, 2020, 12:07:44 PM
If they work at this then a full lockdown is not required. Singapore has not had a lockdown and has had cases since January.
This does not mean that individual businesses will not have huge problems, but the whole economy will not shut down.
There is every reason to close pubs, but every reason not to close food production, for instance.

Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
But if it's lockdown , business shuts, council's will hardly get their rents, staff don't get paid , be pretty much close shop ,open shop six weeks later back to normal, govt lose a few quid from emergency fund .

What about staff who need to pay for things like food, heat, light, mortgage, cars? Are you f**king serious? It would be carnage!

The welfare payment will cover food and the mortgage can be sorted in time. Borrowing money for cars is unwise and this is why.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
But if it's lockdown , business shuts, council's will hardly get their rents, staff don't get paid , be pretty much close shop ,open shop six weeks later back to normal, govt lose a few quid from emergency fund .

What about staff who need to pay for things like food, heat, light, mortgage, cars? Are you f**king serious? It would be carnage!

Thousands coming back from Cheltenham isnt going to help this!

Stop and quarantine at entry points. The country can run smoothly as normal if it's contained at ports/airports. If they don't do that, we will have an Italy style lockdown in a week or two. Now that would be carnage!!

Anyone who goes to Cheltenham and comes back is a bollocks of the highest order. Much of this in Europe is a virus spread by the jet set.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 12:20:58 PM
Being surrounded by water should help surely, if we used stricter control of movement?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: blast05 on March 10, 2020, 12:31:18 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
But if it's lockdown , business shuts, council's will hardly get their rents, staff don't get paid , be pretty much close shop ,open shop six weeks later back to normal, govt lose a few quid from emergency fund .

What about staff who need to pay for things like food, heat, light, mortgage, cars? Are you f**king serious? It would be carnage!

Thousands coming back from Cheltenham isnt going to help this!

Stop and quarantine at entry points. The country can run smoothly as normal if it's contained at ports/airports. If they don't do that, we will have an Italy style lockdown in a week or two. Now that would be carnage!!

Anyone who goes to Cheltenham and comes back is a bollocks of the highest order. Much of this in Europe is a virus spread by the jet set.

I guess the jet-set were also responsible for the global transmission of the Spanish Flu in 1918  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 10, 2020, 12:35:14 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
But if it's lockdown , business shuts, council's will hardly get their rents, staff don't get paid , be pretty much close shop ,open shop six weeks later back to normal, govt lose a few quid from emergency fund .

What about staff who need to pay for things like food, heat, light, mortgage, cars? Are you f**king serious? It would be carnage!

Thousands coming back from Cheltenham isnt going to help this!

Stop and quarantine at entry points. The country can run smoothly as normal if it's contained at ports/airports. If they don't do that, we will have an Italy style lockdown in a week or two. Now that would be carnage!!

Anyone who goes to Cheltenham and comes back is a bollocks of the highest order. Much of this in Europe is a virus spread by the jet set.

It's all the rich's fault. Lol.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:37:56 PM
Quote from: blast05 on March 10, 2020, 12:31:18 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
But if it's lockdown , business shuts, council's will hardly get their rents, staff don't get paid , be pretty much close shop ,open shop six weeks later back to normal, govt lose a few quid from emergency fund .

What about staff who need to pay for things like food, heat, light, mortgage, cars? Are you f**king serious? It would be carnage!

Thousands coming back from Cheltenham isnt going to help this!

Stop and quarantine at entry points. The country can run smoothly as normal if it's contained at ports/airports. If they don't do that, we will have an Italy style lockdown in a week or two. Now that would be carnage!!

Anyone who goes to Cheltenham and comes back is a bollocks of the highest order. Much of this in Europe is a virus spread by the jet set.

I guess the jet-set were also responsible for the global transmission of the Spanish Flu in 1918  ::)

Different circumstances, as it was soldiers returning from war. But everyone knows the type of red faced Paddy, belly stuck out, wants to have his fun, likes to flash a few bob, and nothing will stop him from his divine right to have the craic at Cheltenham.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 10, 2020, 12:38:33 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
But if it's lockdown , business shuts, council's will hardly get their rents, staff don't get paid , be pretty much close shop ,open shop six weeks later back to normal, govt lose a few quid from emergency fund .

What about staff who need to pay for things like food, heat, light, mortgage, cars? Are you f**king serious? It would be carnage!

Thousands coming back from Cheltenham isnt going to help this!

Stop and quarantine at entry points. The country can run smoothly as normal if it's contained at ports/airports. If they don't do that, we will have an Italy style lockdown in a week or two. Now that would be carnage!!

Anyone who goes to Cheltenham and comes back is a bollocks of the highest order. Much of this in Europe is a virus spread by the jet set.

Dr Harries said cancelling big outdoor events like football matches would not necessarily be a decision supported by science.

"The virus will not survive very long outside," she said. "Many outdoor events, particularly, are relatively safe."

Experts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 10, 2020, 12:40:16 PM
Ryanair to suspend all flights to Italy.

Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 12:38:33 PM
Dr Harries said cancelling big outdoor events like football matches would not necessarily be a decision supported by science.

"The virus will not survive very long outside," she said. "Many outdoor events, particularly, are relatively safe."

Experts.

Being outside is less of a threat. It is the associated visit to the pub that is the problem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:42:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 12:38:33 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
But if it's lockdown , business shuts, council's will hardly get their rents, staff don't get paid , be pretty much close shop ,open shop six weeks later back to normal, govt lose a few quid from emergency fund .

What about staff who need to pay for things like food, heat, light, mortgage, cars? Are you f**king serious? It would be carnage!

Thousands coming back from Cheltenham isnt going to help this!

Stop and quarantine at entry points. The country can run smoothly as normal if it's contained at ports/airports. If they don't do that, we will have an Italy style lockdown in a week or two. Now that would be carnage!!

Anyone who goes to Cheltenham and comes back is a bollocks of the highest order. Much of this in Europe is a virus spread by the jet set.

Dr Harries said cancelling big outdoor events like football matches would not necessarily be a decision supported by science.

"The virus will not survive very long outside," she said. "Many outdoor events, particularly, are relatively safe."

Experts.

Expert or is Dr Jenny Harries a mouthpiece for the Boris Johnson government?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 10, 2020, 12:45:39 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:42:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 12:38:33 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
But if it's lockdown , business shuts, council's will hardly get their rents, staff don't get paid , be pretty much close shop ,open shop six weeks later back to normal, govt lose a few quid from emergency fund .

What about staff who need to pay for things like food, heat, light, mortgage, cars? Are you f**king serious? It would be carnage!

Thousands coming back from Cheltenham isnt going to help this!

Stop and quarantine at entry points. The country can run smoothly as normal if it's contained at ports/airports. If they don't do that, we will have an Italy style lockdown in a week or two. Now that would be carnage!!

Anyone who goes to Cheltenham and comes back is a bollocks of the highest order. Much of this in Europe is a virus spread by the jet set.

Dr Harries said cancelling big outdoor events like football matches would not necessarily be a decision supported by science.

"The virus will not survive very long outside," she said. "Many outdoor events, particularly, are relatively safe."

Experts.

Expert or is Dr Jenny Harries a mouthpiece for the Boris Johnson government?

Yes an unqualified mouthpiece, as opposed to yourself who's seems to be quite the authority on public health issues including but not limited to the cause of the Spanish flu.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:51:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 12:45:39 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:42:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 12:38:33 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
But if it's lockdown , business shuts, council's will hardly get their rents, staff don't get paid , be pretty much close shop ,open shop six weeks later back to normal, govt lose a few quid from emergency fund .

What about staff who need to pay for things like food, heat, light, mortgage, cars? Are you f**king serious? It would be carnage!

Thousands coming back from Cheltenham isnt going to help this!

Stop and quarantine at entry points. The country can run smoothly as normal if it's contained at ports/airports. If they don't do that, we will have an Italy style lockdown in a week or two. Now that would be carnage!!

Anyone who goes to Cheltenham and comes back is a bollocks of the highest order. Much of this in Europe is a virus spread by the jet set.

Dr Harries said cancelling big outdoor events like football matches would not necessarily be a decision supported by science.

"The virus will not survive very long outside," she said. "Many outdoor events, particularly, are relatively safe."

Experts.

Expert or is Dr Jenny Harries a mouthpiece for the Boris Johnson government?

Yes an unqualified mouthpiece, as opposed to yourself who's seems to be quite the authority on public health issues including but not limited to the cause of the Spanish flu.

There's something called commonsense and anyone who travels abroad for a ski holiday, takes a cruise, heads off to a sporting festival held over a number of days where large crowds will gather is being irresponsible. This is all non-essential travel and if people can't put up with that life of leisure for awhile, they are being a selfish bollocks.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 01:03:08 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:51:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 12:45:39 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:42:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 12:38:33 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
But if it's lockdown , business shuts, council's will hardly get their rents, staff don't get paid , be pretty much close shop ,open shop six weeks later back to normal, govt lose a few quid from emergency fund .

What about staff who need to pay for things like food, heat, light, mortgage, cars? Are you f**king serious? It would be carnage!

Thousands coming back from Cheltenham isnt going to help this!

Stop and quarantine at entry points. The country can run smoothly as normal if it's contained at ports/airports. If they don't do that, we will have an Italy style lockdown in a week or two. Now that would be carnage!!

Anyone who goes to Cheltenham and comes back is a bollocks of the highest order. Much of this in Europe is a virus spread by the jet set.

Dr Harries said cancelling big outdoor events like football matches would not necessarily be a decision supported by science.

"The virus will not survive very long outside," she said. "Many outdoor events, particularly, are relatively safe."

Experts.

Expert or is Dr Jenny Harries a mouthpiece for the Boris Johnson government?

Yes an unqualified mouthpiece, as opposed to yourself who's seems to be quite the authority on public health issues including but not limited to the cause of the Spanish flu.

There's something called commonsense and anyone who travels abroad for a ski holiday, takes a cruise, heads off to a sporting festival held over a number of days where large crowds will gather is being irresponsible. This is all non-essential travel and if people can't put up with that life of leisure for awhile, they are being a selfish bollocks.

Alternatively, they have saved all year for something to strike upon this kind of bad luck. No refund on cancellations is no alternative to some. You must acknowledge that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: weareros on March 10, 2020, 01:09:56 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 01:03:08 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:51:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 12:45:39 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:42:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 12:38:33 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
But if it's lockdown , business shuts, council's will hardly get their rents, staff don't get paid , be pretty much close shop ,open shop six weeks later back to normal, govt lose a few quid from emergency fund .

What about staff who need to pay for things like food, heat, light, mortgage, cars? Are you f**king serious? It would be carnage!

Thousands coming back from Cheltenham isnt going to help this!

Stop and quarantine at entry points. The country can run smoothly as normal if it's contained at ports/airports. If they don't do that, we will have an Italy style lockdown in a week or two. Now that would be carnage!!

Anyone who goes to Cheltenham and comes back is a bollocks of the highest order. Much of this in Europe is a virus spread by the jet set.

Dr Harries said cancelling big outdoor events like football matches would not necessarily be a decision supported by science.

"The virus will not survive very long outside," she said. "Many outdoor events, particularly, are relatively safe."

Experts.

Expert or is Dr Jenny Harries a mouthpiece for the Boris Johnson government?

Yes an unqualified mouthpiece, as opposed to yourself who's seems to be quite the authority on public health issues including but not limited to the cause of the Spanish flu.

There's something called commonsense and anyone who travels abroad for a ski holiday, takes a cruise, heads off to a sporting festival held over a number of days where large crowds will gather is being irresponsible. This is all non-essential travel and if people can't put up with that life of leisure for awhile, they are being a selfish bollocks.

Alternatively, they have saved all year for something to strike upon this kind of bad luck. No refund on cancellations is no alternative to some. You must acknowledge that.

It's bad luck, but compared to what could happen - a recession, rising unemployment and people losing jobs, not to mention untimely deaths, more pressure on a crumbling health service, it's a small price to pay to give up that trip on the horses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 01:03:08 PM

Alternatively, they have saved all year for something to strike upon this kind of bad luck. No refund on cancellations is no alternative to some. You must acknowledge that.

Aiding and abetting the spread of a lethal virus with significant mortality risk for the elderly and people with common co-morbidities on one hand.

On the other hand is the disappointment of not getting on your holidays.

People who go on holidays definitely have the alternative not to travel. Anyone who does is a greedy bollix.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 10, 2020, 01:22:15 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 01:09:56 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 01:03:08 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:51:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 12:45:39 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:42:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 12:38:33 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
But if it's lockdown , business shuts, council's will hardly get their rents, staff don't get paid , be pretty much close shop ,open shop six weeks later back to normal, govt lose a few quid from emergency fund .

What about staff who need to pay for things like food, heat, light, mortgage, cars? Are you f**king serious? It would be carnage!

Thousands coming back from Cheltenham isnt going to help this!

Stop and quarantine at entry points. The country can run smoothly as normal if it's contained at ports/airports. If they don't do that, we will have an Italy style lockdown in a week or two. Now that would be carnage!!

Anyone who goes to Cheltenham and comes back is a bollocks of the highest order. Much of this in Europe is a virus spread by the jet set.

Dr Harries said cancelling big outdoor events like football matches would not necessarily be a decision supported by science.

"The virus will not survive very long outside," she said. "Many outdoor events, particularly, are relatively safe."

Experts.

Expert or is Dr Jenny Harries a mouthpiece for the Boris Johnson government?

Yes an unqualified mouthpiece, as opposed to yourself who's seems to be quite the authority on public health issues including but not limited to the cause of the Spanish flu.

There's something called commonsense and anyone who travels abroad for a ski holiday, takes a cruise, heads off to a sporting festival held over a number of days where large crowds will gather is being irresponsible. This is all non-essential travel and if people can't put up with that life of leisure for awhile, they are being a selfish bollocks.

Alternatively, they have saved all year for something to strike upon this kind of bad luck. No refund on cancellations is no alternative to some. You must acknowledge that.

It's bad luck, but compared to what could happen - a recession, rising unemployment and people losing jobs, not to mention untimely deaths, more pressure on a crumbling health service, it's a small price to pay to give up that trip on the horses.

It's not your call to make. If the government ban travel then yes but until then people are free to do as they wish and they should be vilified by the likes of you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 10, 2020, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 01:03:08 PM

Alternatively, they have saved all year for something to strike upon this kind of bad luck. No refund on cancellations is no alternative to some. You must acknowledge that.

Aiding and abetting the spread of a lethal virus with significant mortality risk for the elderly and people with common co-morbidities on one hand.

On the other hand is the disappointment of not getting on your holidays.

People who go on holidays definitely have the alternative not to travel. Anyone who does is a greedy bollix.
Balls. Governments should cancel flights then or implement procedures. Ridiculous to expect the average citizen to interpret all the data and information and do something different from what the government and WHO is advising and advocating.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 10, 2020, 01:26:55 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 01:03:08 PM

Alternatively, they have saved all year for something to strike upon this kind of bad luck. No refund on cancellations is no alternative to some. You must acknowledge that.

Aiding and abetting the spread of a lethal virus with significant mortality risk for the elderly and people with common co-morbidities on one hand.

On the other hand is the disappointment of not getting on your holidays.

People who go on holidays definitely have the alternative not to travel. Anyone who does is a greedy bollix.

People are selfish. If the virus mutates (which is possible) then they would stop travelling.

I have parents in their 70s who have COPD and can just about fight off a cold. Unfortunately there's loads of ways the virus can transmit. ... Someone coughing in a supermarket, hospital, GP surgery.... Then there's people who don't wash their hands and touch petrol pumps, products in supermarkets. Then there i
Is transmission through family member  etc it's never ending the way this virus can infect people.

I would be more inclined to buy surgical gloves and wash hands at every opportunity
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 10, 2020, 01:37:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 12:45:39 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:42:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 12:38:33 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
But if it's lockdown , business shuts, council's will hardly get their rents, staff don't get paid , be pretty much close shop ,open shop six weeks later back to normal, govt lose a few quid from emergency fund .

What about staff who need to pay for things like food, heat, light, mortgage, cars? Are you f**king serious? It would be carnage!

Thousands coming back from Cheltenham isnt going to help this!

Stop and quarantine at entry points. The country can run smoothly as normal if it's contained at ports/airports. If they don't do that, we will have an Italy style lockdown in a week or two. Now that would be carnage!!

Anyone who goes to Cheltenham and comes back is a bollocks of the highest order. Much of this in Europe is a virus spread by the jet set.

Dr Harries said cancelling big outdoor events like football matches would not necessarily be a decision supported by science.

"The virus will not survive very long outside," she said. "Many outdoor events, particularly, are relatively safe."

Experts.

Expert or is Dr Jenny Harries a mouthpiece for the Boris Johnson government?

Yes an unqualified mouthpiece, as opposed to yourself who's seems to be quite the authority on public health issues including but not limited to the cause of the Spanish flu.

The UK government have said that they expect thousands to be infected. The number of deaths are unknown but it is very likely the hospitals are going to be pushed past their breaking point. I seen what ir was like with that flu two/three years ago.

If hundreds and thousands are going to be infected then it is obvious the current stage we are at is not working. Manage the problem while it is manageable and bring in stricter measures now otherwise we are facing a China and Italy style lock down. It is almost like the UK government are trying to put a house fire out with a fire extinguisher.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 10, 2020, 01:41:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 11:50:37 AM
What keeps the economy going if the country shuts down for 4-6 weeks? I could work with 2 weeks self isolation. But if it is 4-6 weeks complete quarantine and our business stops what should I do?

That is why the dopey government should have been trying everything to keep this confined to border entries.

Pick it up there, and you avoid the need for shutting down the entire country.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: square_ball on March 10, 2020, 01:43:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2020, 10:25:34 AM
It really is the worst possible prime minister for such a scenario.

(You could take the last 4 words away there too).

This is his take on it "One of the theories is perhaps you could take it on the chin, take it all in one go & allow #coronvirus to move through the population"

Boris has no intention of any lockdowns.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 01:45:13 PM
Quote from: square_ball on March 10, 2020, 01:43:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2020, 10:25:34 AM
It really is the worst possible prime minister for such a scenario.

(You could take the last 4 words away there too).

This is his take on it "One of the theories is perhaps you could take it on the chin, take it all in one go & allow #coronvirus to move through the population"

Boris has no intention of any lockdowns.

I think the Brexit campaign clearly highlighted the inability for anyone to do anything clear regarding borders - that was just for trade.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 10, 2020, 01:48:20 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 01:09:56 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 01:03:08 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:51:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 12:45:39 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:42:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 12:38:33 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
But if it's lockdown , business shuts, council's will hardly get their rents, staff don't get paid , be pretty much close shop ,open shop six weeks later back to normal, govt lose a few quid from emergency fund .

What about staff who need to pay for things like food, heat, light, mortgage, cars? Are you f**king serious? It would be carnage!

Thousands coming back from Cheltenham isnt going to help this!

Stop and quarantine at entry points. The country can run smoothly as normal if it's contained at ports/airports. If they don't do that, we will have an Italy style lockdown in a week or two. Now that would be carnage!!

Anyone who goes to Cheltenham and comes back is a bollocks of the highest order. Much of this in Europe is a virus spread by the jet set.

Dr Harries said cancelling big outdoor events like football matches would not necessarily be a decision supported by science.

"The virus will not survive very long outside," she said. "Many outdoor events, particularly, are relatively safe."

Experts.

Expert or is Dr Jenny Harries a mouthpiece for the Boris Johnson government?

Yes an unqualified mouthpiece, as opposed to yourself who's seems to be quite the authority on public health issues including but not limited to the cause of the Spanish flu.

There's something called commonsense and anyone who travels abroad for a ski holiday, takes a cruise, heads off to a sporting festival held over a number of days where large crowds will gather is being irresponsible. This is all non-essential travel and if people can't put up with that life of leisure for awhile, they are being a selfish bollocks.

Alternatively, they have saved all year for something to strike upon this kind of bad luck. No refund on cancellations is no alternative to some. You must acknowledge that.

It's bad luck, but compared to what could happen - a recession, rising unemployment and people losing jobs, not to mention untimely deaths, more pressure on a crumbling health service, it's a small price to pay to give up that trip on the horses.

Insurance companies could just cough up, the government could enforce a travel ban, I personally wouldn't go or allow my children to go, but I do get why some might. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 01:49:28 PM
Several times in work today I've heard people say "ahh it's only going to affect the elderly " in the context of f**k them . You'd have to wonder about humanity in the modern world
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:49:37 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 10, 2020, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 01:03:08 PM

Alternatively, they have saved all year for something to strike upon this kind of bad luck. No refund on cancellations is no alternative to some. You must acknowledge that.

Aiding and abetting the spread of a lethal virus with significant mortality risk for the elderly and people with common co-morbidities on one hand.

On the other hand is the disappointment of not getting on your holidays.

People who go on holidays definitely have the alternative not to travel. Anyone who does is a greedy bollix.
Balls. Governments should cancel flights then or implement procedures. Ridiculous to expect the average citizen to interpret all the data and information and do something different from what the government and WHO is advising and advocating.

Balls. There's not much data to interpret. It's a lethal virus with a mortality rate of up to 10% amongst the elderly and people with co-morbidities. It's spread very rapidly amongst people and communities. If you find yourself in a moral quandry between spreading a lethal disease and going on holidays then your a w**ker.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 10, 2020, 01:51:44 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:49:37 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 10, 2020, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 01:03:08 PM

Alternatively, they have saved all year for something to strike upon this kind of bad luck. No refund on cancellations is no alternative to some. You must acknowledge that.

Aiding and abetting the spread of a lethal virus with significant mortality risk for the elderly and people with common co-morbidities on one hand.

On the other hand is the disappointment of not getting on your holidays.

People who go on holidays definitely have the alternative not to travel. Anyone who does is a greedy bollix.
Balls. Governments should cancel flights then or implement procedures. Ridiculous to expect the average citizen to interpret all the data and information and do something different from what the government and WHO is advising and advocating.

Balls. There's not much data to interpret. It's a lethal virus with a mortality rate of up to 10% amongst the elderly and people with co-morbidities. It's spread very rapidly amongst people and communities. If you find yourself in a moral quandry between spreading a lethal disease and going on holidays then your a w**ker.

Enforce a travel ban - take it out of individuals hands!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 10, 2020, 01:54:26 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:49:37 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 10, 2020, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 01:03:08 PM

Alternatively, they have saved all year for something to strike upon this kind of bad luck. No refund on cancellations is no alternative to some. You must acknowledge that.

Aiding and abetting the spread of a lethal virus with significant mortality risk for the elderly and people with common co-morbidities on one hand.

On the other hand is the disappointment of not getting on your holidays.

People who go on holidays definitely have the alternative not to travel. Anyone who does is a greedy bollix.
Balls. Governments should cancel flights then or implement procedures. Ridiculous to expect the average citizen to interpret all the data and information and do something different from what the government and WHO is advising and advocating.

Balls. There's not much data to interpret. It's a lethal virus with a mortality rate of up to 10% amongst the elderly and people with co-morbidities. It's spread very rapidly amongst people and communities. If you find yourself in a moral quandry between spreading a lethal disease and going on holidays then your a w**ker.

Out of curiosity, how many people on this forum would be in the at risk groups? I'm not at risk but I take ever precaution possible to ensure elderly people are not affected by a virus that could be eliminated if society as a while takes necessary precautions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 10, 2020, 02:01:15 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 10, 2020, 01:51:44 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:49:37 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 10, 2020, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 01:03:08 PM

Alternatively, they have saved all year for something to strike upon this kind of bad luck. No refund on cancellations is no alternative to some. You must acknowledge that.

Aiding and abetting the spread of a lethal virus with significant mortality risk for the elderly and people with common co-morbidities on one hand.

On the other hand is the disappointment of not getting on your holidays.

People who go on holidays definitely have the alternative not to travel. Anyone who does is a greedy bollix.
Balls. Governments should cancel flights then or implement procedures. Ridiculous to expect the average citizen to interpret all the data and information and do something different from what the government and WHO is advising and advocating.

Balls. There's not much data to interpret. It's a lethal virus with a mortality rate of up to 10% amongst the elderly and people with co-morbidities. It's spread very rapidly amongst people and communities. If you find yourself in a moral quandry between spreading a lethal disease and going on holidays then your a w**ker.

Enforce a travel ban - take it out of individuals hands!
Exactly. Youve got our Tyrone friend above passing moral judgement on those who might travel. Where do you draw the line? Condemn anyone going to cinema, gym bar cafe or whatever? Meeting up with their friends? Im sorry but the lead has to come from the top on this. I wouldnt be blaming anyone for spreading this unless they have went against official advice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 02:03:20 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 10, 2020, 01:51:44 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:49:37 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 10, 2020, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 01:03:08 PM

Alternatively, they have saved all year for something to strike upon this kind of bad luck. No refund on cancellations is no alternative to some. You must acknowledge that.

Aiding and abetting the spread of a lethal virus with significant mortality risk for the elderly and people with common co-morbidities on one hand.

On the other hand is the disappointment of not getting on your holidays.

People who go on holidays definitely have the alternative not to travel. Anyone who does is a greedy bollix.
Balls. Governments should cancel flights then or implement procedures. Ridiculous to expect the average citizen to interpret all the data and information and do something different from what the government and WHO is advising and advocating.

Balls. There's not much data to interpret. It's a lethal virus with a mortality rate of up to 10% amongst the elderly and people with co-morbidities. It's spread very rapidly amongst people and communities. If you find yourself in a moral quandry between spreading a lethal disease and going on holidays then your a w**ker.

Enforce a travel ban - take it out of individuals hands!

I remember the shutting down of flights after 9/11, Bombardier lost contracts and 1000's of jobs were lost during that period because of uncertainty in the market.

If and they possibly should then it will be a economic disaster.

I'd say the analysts have weighed up the pros and cons financially
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 02:04:24 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 10, 2020, 01:37:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 12:45:39 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:42:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 12:38:33 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 10, 2020, 12:10:31 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 12:06:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 10, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 11:57:38 AM
But if it's lockdown , business shuts, council's will hardly get their rents, staff don't get paid , be pretty much close shop ,open shop six weeks later back to normal, govt lose a few quid from emergency fund .

What about staff who need to pay for things like food, heat, light, mortgage, cars? Are you f**king serious? It would be carnage!

Thousands coming back from Cheltenham isnt going to help this!

Stop and quarantine at entry points. The country can run smoothly as normal if it's contained at ports/airports. If they don't do that, we will have an Italy style lockdown in a week or two. Now that would be carnage!!

Anyone who goes to Cheltenham and comes back is a bollocks of the highest order. Much of this in Europe is a virus spread by the jet set.

Dr Harries said cancelling big outdoor events like football matches would not necessarily be a decision supported by science.

"The virus will not survive very long outside," she said. "Many outdoor events, particularly, are relatively safe."

Experts.

Expert or is Dr Jenny Harries a mouthpiece for the Boris Johnson government?

Yes an unqualified mouthpiece, as opposed to yourself who's seems to be quite the authority on public health issues including but not limited to the cause of the Spanish flu.

The UK government have said that they expect thousands to be infected. The number of deaths are unknown but it is very likely the hospitals are going to be pushed past their breaking point. I seen what ir was like with that flu two/three years ago.

If hundreds and thousands are going to be infected then it is obvious the current stage we are at is not working. Manage the problem while it is manageable and bring in stricter measures now otherwise we are facing a China and Italy style lock down. It is almost like the UK government are trying to put a house fire out with a fire extinguisher.

Yes, exactly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 10, 2020, 02:07:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 02:03:20 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 10, 2020, 01:51:44 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:49:37 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 10, 2020, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 01:03:08 PM

Alternatively, they have saved all year for something to strike upon this kind of bad luck. No refund on cancellations is no alternative to some. You must acknowledge that.

Aiding and abetting the spread of a lethal virus with significant mortality risk for the elderly and people with common co-morbidities on one hand.

On the other hand is the disappointment of not getting on your holidays.

People who go on holidays definitely have the alternative not to travel. Anyone who does is a greedy bollix.
Balls. Governments should cancel flights then or implement procedures. Ridiculous to expect the average citizen to interpret all the data and information and do something different from what the government and WHO is advising and advocating.

Balls. There's not much data to interpret. It's a lethal virus with a mortality rate of up to 10% amongst the elderly and people with co-morbidities. It's spread very rapidly amongst people and communities. If you find yourself in a moral quandry between spreading a lethal disease and going on holidays then your a w**ker.

Enforce a travel ban - take it out of individuals hands!

I remember the shutting down of flights after 9/11, Bombardier lost contracts and 1000's of jobs were lost during that period because of uncertainty in the market.

If and they possibly should then it will be a economic disaster.

I'd say the analysts have weighed up the pros and cons financially

That's what it all boils down too, UK government probably happy if 100,000+ social care patients died, look at the money they would save looking after them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 02:12:08 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 10, 2020, 01:54:26 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:49:37 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 10, 2020, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 01:03:08 PM

Alternatively, they have saved all year for something to strike upon this kind of bad luck. No refund on cancellations is no alternative to some. You must acknowledge that.

Aiding and abetting the spread of a lethal virus with significant mortality risk for the elderly and people with common co-morbidities on one hand.

On the other hand is the disappointment of not getting on your holidays.

People who go on holidays definitely have the alternative not to travel. Anyone who does is a greedy bollix.
Balls. Governments should cancel flights then or implement procedures. Ridiculous to expect the average citizen to interpret all the data and information and do something different from what the government and WHO is advising and advocating.

Balls. There's not much data to interpret. It's a lethal virus with a mortality rate of up to 10% amongst the elderly and people with co-morbidities. It's spread very rapidly amongst people and communities. If you find yourself in a moral quandry between spreading a lethal disease and going on holidays then your a w**ker.

Out of curiosity, how many people on this forum would be in the at risk groups? I'm not at risk but I take ever precaution possible to ensure elderly people are not affected by a virus that could be eliminated if society as a while takes necessary precautions.

A lot of us could have underlying issues. How many of us could be walking around not knowing we could be borderline diabetic, heart disease or have a little bit of chest trouble that might prove problematic if they got the virus.

My mother has health issues, we have a new baby nephew, who knows how a baby's immune system could cope, have uncles/aunts with heart, chest and diabetic issues, and another not long over cancer treatment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 02:14:37 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 10, 2020, 02:07:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 02:03:20 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 10, 2020, 01:51:44 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:49:37 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 10, 2020, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 01:03:08 PM

Alternatively, they have saved all year for something to strike upon this kind of bad luck. No refund on cancellations is no alternative to some. You must acknowledge that.

Aiding and abetting the spread of a lethal virus with significant mortality risk for the elderly and people with common co-morbidities on one hand.

On the other hand is the disappointment of not getting on your holidays.

People who go on holidays definitely have the alternative not to travel. Anyone who does is a greedy bollix.
Balls. Governments should cancel flights then or implement procedures. Ridiculous to expect the average citizen to interpret all the data and information and do something different from what the government and WHO is advising and advocating.

Balls. There's not much data to interpret. It's a lethal virus with a mortality rate of up to 10% amongst the elderly and people with co-morbidities. It's spread very rapidly amongst people and communities. If you find yourself in a moral quandry between spreading a lethal disease and going on holidays then your a w**ker.

Enforce a travel ban - take it out of individuals hands!

I remember the shutting down of flights after 9/11, Bombardier lost contracts and 1000's of jobs were lost during that period because of uncertainty in the market.

If and they possibly should then it will be a economic disaster.

I'd say the analysts have weighed up the pros and cons financially

That's what it all boils down too, UK government probably happy if 100,000+ social care patients died, look at the money they would save looking after them.

As mad as that sounds, you're correct. A big chunk saved on the DLA bill!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 10, 2020, 02:19:12 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 02:12:08 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 10, 2020, 01:54:26 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:49:37 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 10, 2020, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 01:03:08 PM

Alternatively, they have saved all year for something to strike upon this kind of bad luck. No refund on cancellations is no alternative to some. You must acknowledge that.

Aiding and abetting the spread of a lethal virus with significant mortality risk for the elderly and people with common co-morbidities on one hand.

On the other hand is the disappointment of not getting on your holidays.

People who go on holidays definitely have the alternative not to travel. Anyone who does is a greedy bollix.
Balls. Governments should cancel flights then or implement procedures. Ridiculous to expect the average citizen to interpret all the data and information and do something different from what the government and WHO is advising and advocating.

Balls. There's not much data to interpret. It's a lethal virus with a mortality rate of up to 10% amongst the elderly and people with co-morbidities. It's spread very rapidly amongst people and communities. If you find yourself in a moral quandry between spreading a lethal disease and going on holidays then your a w**ker.

Out of curiosity, how many people on this forum would be in the at risk groups? I'm not at risk but I take ever precaution possible to ensure elderly people are not affected by a virus that could be eliminated if society as a while takes necessary precautions.

A lot of us could have underlying issues. How many of us could be walking around not knowing we could be borderline diabetic, heart disease or have a little bit of chest trouble that might prove problematic if they got the virus.

My mother has health issues, we have a new baby nephew, who knows how a baby's immune system could cope, have uncles/aunts with heart, chest and diabetic issues, and another not long over cancer treatment.

You are right. There's a long list of issues that put people at risk, even people who think they are healthy.

The responses to this virus are a joke and it isn't like there have been subtle warnings in the past about what to expect and yet there seems to be no effective strategy implemented as of yet.

I work for a pharmaceutical company and their response so far is a joke. People can work at home yet they prefer to have a packed out office.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 10, 2020, 02:22:22 PM
This is a deadly virus for those in the most at risk categories. It doesn't respect borders, economics, your personal circumstances or anything else. There is no scenario which is a win-win for everyone while seeing this out. There is no rulebook as such for any of this. Some decisions will work and some won't. Some people won't be impacted in the slightest and some have serious consequences medically and financially. It is not about any one individual.

What exactly do people want or expect?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 10, 2020, 02:24:00 PM
Let's not allow things get like Itsly
https://threader.app/thread/1237142891077697538
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 10, 2020, 02:25:18 PM
The best time is to get it now :(

(If you are going to get it)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 10, 2020, 02:28:12 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 10, 2020, 02:19:12 PM

I work for a pharmaceutical company and their response so far is a joke. People can work at home yet they prefer to have a packed out office.

In our office I usually found that it was the managers with no life who forced their staff in, though they could WFH while their cat was sick or getting a new kitchen in, most people in power are cnuts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on March 10, 2020, 02:33:00 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 02:12:08 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 10, 2020, 01:54:26 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:49:37 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 10, 2020, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 01:03:08 PM

Alternatively, they have saved all year for something to strike upon this kind of bad luck. No refund on cancellations is no alternative to some. You must acknowledge that.

Aiding and abetting the spread of a lethal virus with significant mortality risk for the elderly and people with common co-morbidities on one hand.

On the other hand is the disappointment of not getting on your holidays.

People who go on holidays definitely have the alternative not to travel. Anyone who does is a greedy bollix.
Balls. Governments should cancel flights then or implement procedures. Ridiculous to expect the average citizen to interpret all the data and information and do something different from what the government and WHO is advising and advocating.

Balls. There's not much data to interpret. It's a lethal virus with a mortality rate of up to 10% amongst the elderly and people with co-morbidities. It's spread very rapidly amongst people and communities. If you find yourself in a moral quandry between spreading a lethal disease and going on holidays then your a w**ker.

Out of curiosity, how many people on this forum would be in the at risk groups? I'm not at risk but I take ever precaution possible to ensure elderly people are not affected by a virus that could be eliminated if society as a while takes necessary precautions.

A lot of us could have underlying issues. How many of us could be walking around not knowing we could be borderline diabetic, heart disease or have a little bit of chest trouble that might prove problematic if they got the virus.

My mother has health issues, we have a new baby nephew, who knows how a baby's immune system could cope, have uncles/aunts with heart, chest and diabetic issues, and another not long over cancer treatment.
Why not have it that a  family with those type of evident underlying issues should put themselves or be assisted into some form of self isolation for their own protection until the threat passes, thereby reducing their exposure to near zero.
Isn't that a more practical survival method than trying to get the rest of the world to adjust to a family's particular vulnerable circumstances?

Same goes for nicotine addicts who have that cough, asthmatics on steroid based inhalers etc.  If those sub groups don't want to get sick, then stay at home and take constant precautions on the outside. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 10, 2020, 02:35:09 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2020, 02:25:18 PM
The best time is to get it now :(

(If you are going to get it)

No evidence to suggest you cant get it more than once though?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 10, 2020, 02:35:24 PM
What if they take away our freedoms.... and never give them back?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 10, 2020, 02:37:39 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 10, 2020, 02:35:09 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2020, 02:25:18 PM
The best time is to get it now :(

(If you are going to get it)

No evidence to suggest you cant get it more than once though?

There is that...

Trailer if they took away your keyboard / device which connects you to the internet at least something good would have come of it ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 10, 2020, 02:38:46 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 10, 2020, 02:33:00 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 02:12:08 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 10, 2020, 01:54:26 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:49:37 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 10, 2020, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: trileacman on March 10, 2020, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 01:03:08 PM

Alternatively, they have saved all year for something to strike upon this kind of bad luck. No refund on cancellations is no alternative to some. You must acknowledge that.

Aiding and abetting the spread of a lethal virus with significant mortality risk for the elderly and people with common co-morbidities on one hand.

On the other hand is the disappointment of not getting on your holidays.

People who go on holidays definitely have the alternative not to travel. Anyone who does is a greedy bollix.
Balls. Governments should cancel flights then or implement procedures. Ridiculous to expect the average citizen to interpret all the data and information and do something different from what the government and WHO is advising and advocating.

Balls. There's not much data to interpret. It's a lethal virus with a mortality rate of up to 10% amongst the elderly and people with co-morbidities. It's spread very rapidly amongst people and communities. If you find yourself in a moral quandry between spreading a lethal disease and going on holidays then your a w**ker.

Out of curiosity, how many people on this forum would be in the at risk groups? I'm not at risk but I take ever precaution possible to ensure elderly people are not affected by a virus that could be eliminated if society as a while takes necessary precautions.

A lot of us could have underlying issues. How many of us could be walking around not knowing we could be borderline diabetic, heart disease or have a little bit of chest trouble that might prove problematic if they got the virus.

My mother has health issues, we have a new baby nephew, who knows how a baby's immune system could cope, have uncles/aunts with heart, chest and diabetic issues, and another not long over cancer treatment.
Why not have it that a  family with those type of evident underlying issues should put themselves or be assisted into some form of self isolation for their own protection until the threat passes, thereby reducing their exposure to near zero.
Isn't that a more practical survival method than trying to get the rest of the world to adjust to a family's particular vulnerable circumstances?

Same goes for nicotine addicts who have that cough, asthmatics on steroid based inhalers etc.  If those sub groups don't want to get sick, then stay at home and take constant precautions on the outside.

Are you for real, if there are 100,000 folk with serious medical issues and 3 or 4 family members who look after them in turn, who also have families and friends how many do you want to lock up!! 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on March 10, 2020, 02:39:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:13:26 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 08, 2020, 10:05:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:01:32 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 08, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
I know it wouldn't achieve anything but I'd like to see everyone who said "it's just the flu" bull whipped.

Bulls shouldn't be whipped, that's animal cruelty  ;)

Yeah I'm not advocating bulls being whipped just people who don't give a f**k about a virus that's killing thousands of people.

Im just asking. I haven't said this isn't real. The rates in Italy are frightening but also the facts show that in England alone 6500 people died last year of just flu. No other reason. When, and it will escalate, it's not in our control. I'll deal with it when it happens. You or I can only control what we can. Closing airports and countries won't happen

This aged well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 10, 2020, 02:41:21 PM
Nearly as well as

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM


It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bogball88 on March 10, 2020, 02:55:02 PM
Heading to Krakow tomorrow. A girl in work is currently in Rome on holidays  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 10, 2020, 03:44:37 PM
Quote from: bogball88 on March 10, 2020, 02:55:02 PM
Heading to Krakow tomorrow. A girl in work is currently in Rome on holidays  :o

She'll not be doing much queuing at the tourist sites.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on March 10, 2020, 03:55:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 10, 2020, 02:24:00 PM
Let's not allow things get like Itsly
https://threader.app/thread/1237142891077697538

Just read that - absolutely f**king horrific and essential reading for the glass half full people on this thread!!


They aren't even treating older people or those with compromised immune systems. Think about that.  It sounds like the Italian healthcare system is on the brink of collapse and our systems are on the brink of collapse every year without such a crisis. People should read it right now and then think twice before they decide that going to Cheltenham, Krackow or Rome is worth it.  I'm due a trip to London and I won't be going getting on a plane or through an airport until the risk subsides.  The problem is that Mr Jones up the road might not take the same precautions and with his young fella in the same class as my wee girl at school, it could come into our house anyway. 

I keep hearing people talking the problem down.  I can see the temptation - its easier to get on with life instead of going to that very negative place, where you start to think about not going about day-to-day life in the same way as normal.  There is something in human behaviour that doesn't want to go there and neither does the community at a wider level.  This is a time when the government should be showing leadership and taking unpopular decisions.

We will likely end up there anyway and we would be much better going there right now rather than waiting until we have to implement these onerous measures, later when they will be less effective. 

Seen this lady on Prime Time last night and she hit the nail on the head.
https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1237159133800955905
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on March 10, 2020, 04:02:15 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 10, 2020, 02:07:19 PM
That's what it all boils down too, UK government probably happy if 100,000+ social care patients died, look at the money they would save looking after them.
A lot of Tory voters though. Rock and a hard place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 04:18:31 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 10, 2020, 02:39:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:13:26 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 08, 2020, 10:05:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:01:32 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 08, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
I know it wouldn't achieve anything but I'd like to see everyone who said "it's just the flu" bull whipped.

Bulls shouldn't be whipped, that's animal cruelty  ;)

Yeah I'm not advocating bulls being whipped just people who don't give a f**k about a virus that's killing thousands of people.

Im just asking. I haven't said this isn't real. The rates in Italy are frightening but also the facts show that in England alone 6500 people died last year of just flu. No other reason. When, and it will escalate, it's not in our control. I'll deal with it when it happens. You or I can only control what we can. Closing airports and countries won't happen

How many countries have closed all their airports now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 10, 2020, 04:19:19 PM
Quote from: APM on March 10, 2020, 03:55:17 PM
We will likely end up there anyway and we would be much better going there right now rather than waiting until we have to implement these onerous measures, later when they will be less effective. 

There are measures between now and lockdown. e.g. Singapore https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/coronavirus-who-praises-singapores-containment-of-covid-19-outbreak
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 04:23:19 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 10, 2020, 02:41:21 PM
Nearly as well as

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM


It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

Point stands.

Symptoms are flu like, no matter if you like it or not. And the prevention is also that of avoiding the flu....No matter how hard you try to make this into the worst thing to ever happen in the world and it's going to infect and kill every single person standing on the planet....it's not. You've been harping on for a week now and the prevention is still the same....wash the hands, don't get coughed on.....etc.

I was reading this thread after returning from Europe at the weekend and see you mentioned me two or three times. It's bordering on stalking at this stage but I'm more than happy to keep you on a hook and it's a round about compliment that you have taken to me.

Forgive me, but isn't the latest from China that they have now curbed the worst of it?

How is the worldwide recovery rate now....last I checked it was rising just as quick as the infections. That alone should really indicate that whilst this is not ideal. It is certainly not the end of us.





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 10, 2020, 04:41:54 PM
NI has 100 ICU beds. That's not good :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 10, 2020, 04:48:02 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 04:23:19 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 10, 2020, 02:41:21 PM
Nearly as well as

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM


It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

Point stands.

Symptoms are flu like, no matter if you like it or not. And the prevention is also that of avoiding the flu....No matter how hard you try to make this into the worst thing to ever happen in the world and it's going to infect and kill every single person standing on the planet....it's not. You've been harping on for a week now and the prevention is still the same....wash the hands, don't get coughed on.....etc.

I was reading this thread after returning from Europe at the weekend and see you mentioned me two or three times. It's bordering on stalking at this stage but I'm more than happy to keep you on a hook and it's a round about compliment that you have taken to me.

Forgive me, but isn't the latest from China that they have now curbed the worst of it?

How is the worldwide recovery rate now....last I checked it was rising just as quick as the infections. That alone should really indicate that whilst this is not ideal. It is certainly not the end of us.

AFM is concerned about the virus and I do not blame him in the slightest. Some of us have elderly and new born family members we want to protect.

If the Coronavirus threat isn't as bad as the flu then why is the Italian healthcare system at breaking point? Why has Italy quarantined 60+ million people and China doing the same?

You are right though - other than self-isolate and washing hands thoroughly can we reduce the risk of getting the virus. However, such an effort require public cooperation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 10, 2020, 04:55:58 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 04:23:19 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 10, 2020, 02:41:21 PM
Nearly as well as

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM


It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

Point stands.

Symptoms are flu like, no matter if you like it or not. And the prevention is also that of avoiding the flu....No matter how hard you try to make this into the worst thing to ever happen in the world and it's going to infect and kill every single person standing on the planet....it's not. You've been harping on for a week now and the prevention is still the same....wash the hands, don't get coughed on.....etc.

I was reading this thread after returning from Europe at the weekend and see you mentioned me two or three times. It's bordering on stalking at this stage but I'm more than happy to keep you on a hook and it's a round about compliment that you have taken to me.

Forgive me, but isn't the latest from China that they have now curbed the worst of it?

How is the worldwide recovery rate now....last I checked it was rising just as quick as the infections. That alone should really indicate that whilst this is not ideal. It is certainly not the end of us.

Spoken like someone who doesn't give a f*** about the elderly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on March 10, 2020, 04:56:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 04:18:31 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 10, 2020, 02:39:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:13:26 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 08, 2020, 10:05:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:01:32 PM
Quote from: Art Mc Crory's Sofa on March 08, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
I know it wouldn't achieve anything but I'd like to see everyone who said "it's just the flu" bull whipped.

Bulls shouldn't be whipped, that's animal cruelty  ;)

Yeah I'm not advocating bulls being whipped just people who don't give a f**k about a virus that's killing thousands of people.

Im just asking. I haven't said this isn't real. The rates in Italy are frightening but also the facts show that in England alone 6500 people died last year of just flu. No other reason. When, and it will escalate, it's not in our control. I'll deal with it when it happens. You or I can only control what we can. Closing airports and countries won't happen

How many countries have closed all their airports now?

Lol.  Watch you don't fall off that pinhead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 10, 2020, 04:58:37 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 04:23:19 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 10, 2020, 02:41:21 PM
Nearly as well as

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM


It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

Point stands.

Symptoms are flu like, no matter if you like it or not. And the prevention is also that of avoiding the flu....No matter how hard you try to make this into the worst thing to ever happen in the world and it's going to infect and kill every single person standing on the planet....it's not. You've been harping on for a week now and the prevention is still the same....wash the hands, don't get coughed on.....etc.

I was reading this thread after returning from Europe at the weekend and see you mentioned me two or three times. It's bordering on stalking at this stage but I'm more than happy to keep you on a hook and it's a round about compliment that you have taken to me.

Forgive me, but isn't the latest from China that they have now curbed the worst of it?

How is the worldwide recovery rate now....last I checked it was rising just as quick as the infections. That alone should really indicate that whilst this is not ideal. It is certainly not the end of us.

https://www.ft.com/content/ed3fb63e-41ce-11ea-bdb5-169ba7be433d

   "Covid-19 is transmitted more readily between humans than Sars, though it is less virulent. Computer modelling suggests that each new case infected 2.5 other people on average in the early stages of the epidemic, though Chinese authorities have greatly reduced this "reproduction number" through drastic action to isolate cases and trace their contacts.

The virus has caused severe respiratory disease in about 20 per cent of patients and killed more than 3 per cent of confirmed cases. Sars killed 10 per cent of infected individuals. Older people, whose immune defences have declined with age, and those with underlying health conditions are much more vulnerable than the young."

https://medium.com/@edwardnirenberg/sars-cov-2-and-the-lessons-we-have-to-learn-from-it-e2017fd5d3c

"ARDS is a condition in which there is widespread pulmonary inflammation culminating in pulmonary edema owing to the potent activation of the innate immune system that results in respiratory failure."

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 10, 2020, 05:07:22 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 10, 2020, 04:48:02 PM


AFM is concerned about the virus and I do not blame him in the slightest. Some of us have elderly and new born family members we want to protect.

If the Coronavirus threat isn't as bad as the flu then why is the Italian healthcare system at breaking point? Why has Italy quarantined 60+ million people and China doing the same?

You are right though - other than self-isolate and washing hands thoroughly can we reduce the risk of getting the virus. However, such an effort require public cooperation.

I've been making this point all week. Turn on the telly and watch any of the footage from Italian hospitals. When did the flu ever cause these hospitals to reach breaking point like this. It is a lazy argument to compare this to normal flu. People quoting flu death numbers are comparing the numbers over an entire year or number of years. Covid-19 has only been about for a matter of months. Let this thing run for year with people going about their regular business and then see how the number stack up then. It would be truly frightening. The authorities are damned if they do and damned if they don't. It requires people on the ground to be sensible about hygiene if they are out and about but a lot of people seem to get the tinfoil hat on and think of this as some greater conspiracy or that they know better than the advice given. Once you are depending on the public you are fecked!!

 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 10, 2020, 05:08:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 10, 2020, 04:55:58 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 04:23:19 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 10, 2020, 02:41:21 PM
Nearly as well as

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM


It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

Point stands.

Symptoms are flu like, no matter if you like it or not. And the prevention is also that of avoiding the flu....No matter how hard you try to make this into the worst thing to ever happen in the world and it's going to infect and kill every single person standing on the planet....it's not. You've been harping on for a week now and the prevention is still the same....wash the hands, don't get coughed on.....etc.

I was reading this thread after returning from Europe at the weekend and see you mentioned me two or three times. It's bordering on stalking at this stage but I'm more than happy to keep you on a hook and it's a round about compliment that you have taken to me.

Forgive me, but isn't the latest from China that they have now curbed the worst of it?

How is the worldwide recovery rate now....last I checked it was rising just as quick as the infections. That alone should really indicate that whilst this is not ideal. It is certainly not the end of us.

Spoken like someone who doesn't give a f*** about the elderly.

Hes not alone on this thread, f**k you I'm alright.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on March 10, 2020, 05:12:32 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 04:23:19 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 10, 2020, 02:41:21 PM
Nearly as well as

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM


It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

Point stands.

Symptoms are flu like, no matter if you like it or not. And the prevention is also that of avoiding the flu....No matter how hard you try to make this into the worst thing to ever happen in the world and it's going to infect and kill every single person standing on the planet....it's not. You've been harping on for a week now and the prevention is still the same....wash the hands, don't get coughed on.....etc.

I was reading this thread after returning from Europe at the weekend and see you mentioned me two or three times. It's bordering on stalking at this stage but I'm more than happy to keep you on a hook and it's a round about compliment that you have taken to me.

Forgive me, but isn't the latest from China that they have now curbed the worst of it?

How is the worldwide recovery rate now....last I checked it was rising just as quick as the infections. That alone should really indicate that whilst this is not ideal. It is certainly not the end of us.

I think the reason that AFM is getting frustrated is that there is a fairly large cohort of people that seem to revel in telling people that its not that bad and things will be fine. I don't think that's the problem, but its the concern behind it that those people could be putting people at risk by not changing behaviour whether that's not washing hands or taking a holiday in Northern Italy or even knowingly mixing with others despite the fact that you are waiting on test results and your friend has already tested positive.  These behaviors are all on a spectrum with OCD and agrophobia at one end and sheer irresponsibility at the other. 

You're entitled to have the glass half full, but surely you have read the article above about the carnage that has played out in Italy and China and I'm yet to meet anyone that isn't concerned for an elderly relative or someone with a compromised immune system.  When I see irresponsible behaviour (and I'm hearing and seeing plenty of it) it is nearly always excused with a comment about people over-reacting with genuine concerns dismissed as hysteria.  I have to say, that I resent the very notion that my family might be put at risk by irresponsible behaviour and I'm far from OCD on this stuff.   

Just bear in mind, and I have said this earlier on this - what looks like panic now might look sensible tomorrow and what looks rational today might look complacent next week. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 10, 2020, 05:14:46 PM
Quote from: APM on March 10, 2020, 05:12:32 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 04:23:19 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 10, 2020, 02:41:21 PM
Nearly as well as

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM


It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

Point stands.

Symptoms are flu like, no matter if you like it or not. And the prevention is also that of avoiding the flu....No matter how hard you try to make this into the worst thing to ever happen in the world and it's going to infect and kill every single person standing on the planet....it's not. You've been harping on for a week now and the prevention is still the same....wash the hands, don't get coughed on.....etc.

I was reading this thread after returning from Europe at the weekend and see you mentioned me two or three times. It's bordering on stalking at this stage but I'm more than happy to keep you on a hook and it's a round about compliment that you have taken to me.

Forgive me, but isn't the latest from China that they have now curbed the worst of it?

How is the worldwide recovery rate now....last I checked it was rising just as quick as the infections. That alone should really indicate that whilst this is not ideal. It is certainly not the end of us.

I think the reason that AFM is getting frustrated is that there is a fairly large cohort of people that seem to revel in telling people that its not that bad and things will be fine. I don't think that's the problem, but its the concern behind it that those people could be putting people at risk by not changing behaviour whether that's not washing hands or taking a holiday in Northern Italy or even knowingly mixing with others despite the fact that you are waiting on test results and your friend has already tested positive.  These behaviors are all on a spectrum with OCD and agrophobia at one end and sheer irresponsibility at the other. 

You're entitled to have the glass half full, but surely you have read the article above about the carnage that has played out in Italy and China and I'm yet to meet anyone that isn't concerned for an elderly relative or someone with a compromised immune system.  When I see irresponsible behaviour (and I'm hearing and seeing plenty of it) it is nearly always excused with a comment about people over-reacting with genuine concerns dismissed as hysteria.  I have to say, that I resent the very notion that my family might be put at risk by irresponsible behaviour and I'm far from OCD on this stuff.   

Just bear in mind, and I have said this earlier on this - what looks like panic now might look sensible tomorrow and what looks rational today might look complacent next week.

100%
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on March 10, 2020, 05:16:17 PM
The 'it's no worse than flu' brigade are either thick as champ or being wilfully awkward.

The whole point here is that the various health services have already factored in the numbers of flu, cancer, heart attack, stroke cases etc etc into their calculations.

And that's how they've become the size they are (which is still probably too small).

Yes, this disease might not have a huge mortality rate (in comparison) but it's going to be widespread and it simply hasn't been budgeted for (AT ALL).

Therefore it completely fcuks all calculations for number of hospitals/beds/nurses out the window and collapses already severely strained services.

Ergo, more people die.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 10, 2020, 05:18:18 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 04:23:19 PM
Forgive me, but isn't the latest from China that they have now curbed the worst of it?

So, do you support measures similar to China then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on March 10, 2020, 05:23:08 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 10, 2020, 05:16:17 PM
The 'it's no worse than flu' brigade are either thick as champ or being wilfully awkward.

The whole point here is that the various health services have already factored in the numbers of flu, cancer, heart attack, etc etc figures into their calculations?

And that's how they've become the size they are.

Yes, this disease might not have a huge mortality rate (in comparison) but it going to be widespread and it simply hasn't been budgeted for (AT ALL).

Therefore it completely fcuks all calculations for number of hospitals/beds/nurses out the window and collapses already severely strained services.

Ergo, more people die.

Or they are absolute pricks or sociopaths.  There is already evidence of people willfully spreading the disease in other parts of the world and people refusing to self-isolate.  That is criminal behaviour and no different to someone who gives someone aids by not telling them they have HIV. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 10, 2020, 05:29:51 PM
Quote from: APM on March 10, 2020, 05:23:08 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 10, 2020, 05:16:17 PM
The 'it's no worse than flu' brigade are either thick as champ or being wilfully awkward.

The whole point here is that the various health services have already factored in the numbers of flu, cancer, heart attack, etc etc figures into their calculations?

And that's how they've become the size they are.

Yes, this disease might not have a huge mortality rate (in comparison) but it going to be widespread and it simply hasn't been budgeted for (AT ALL).

Therefore it completely fcuks all calculations for number of hospitals/beds/nurses out the window and collapses already severely strained services.

Ergo, more people die.

Or they are absolute pricks or sociopaths.  There is already evidence of people willfully spreading the disease in other parts of the world and people refusing to self-isolate.  That is criminal behaviour and no different to someone who gives someone aids by not telling them they have HIV.

Or people like getoverthebar, self centred individuals who won't be told by anyone as they know more than the expert's, with attitudes like his and others prevalent on this thread folk have no chance. Even now he still banging on it's no worse than the flu, a major shift from his original quote that it was just the flu. I am sure same boy wouldn't sell isolate, he wouldn't accept he had to. ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on March 10, 2020, 06:10:49 PM
Linfield have confirmed that one of their players have tested positive for coronavirus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 10, 2020, 06:11:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 10, 2020, 05:18:18 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 04:23:19 PM
Forgive me, but isn't the latest from China that they have now curbed the worst of it?

So, do you support measures similar to China then?

Yes they curbed it by bringing in QR codes to get into ones apartment or workplace, mandatory daily temperature checks, curfews etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 10, 2020, 06:22:51 PM
I need more simple information, how do you actually get infected , I've read you have to be within two metres of a person for a fifteen minute period who has it . Is this true ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 06:30:01 PM
Nobody really knows until they have the symptoms they could have caught the virus and not known and be walking around spreading it, the symptoms aren't noticeable for up to 5 days.

All of us could have it and be giving it to family and friends, I've taken measures every day, but in my job that's standard, I've applied same measures at home. But to say people are deliberately giving it to others because they are saying it's a Flu is silly. The flu was something people were relating it too as a known problem. Some on here really get carried away with themselves and I doubt very much they'd get on like that in real life, we'll I hope not.

We've been getting constant emails updates and I can see us closing at some point, as we deal with the ones who'll not have a chance should they get it. But how will I know and if I do get it I'll not know for 5 days! I'll have met possibly 50 elderly people at that point! Plus family!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 10, 2020, 06:55:30 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 10, 2020, 06:10:49 PM
Linfield have confirmed that one of their players have tested positive for coronavirus.

They would do anything for Windsor park to get a deep clean
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 10, 2020, 07:00:40 PM
Word of warning against replying to miltown, or you will be called all sorts, trying to paint himself like he cares now, its miltown first f**k the rest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on March 10, 2020, 07:19:24 PM
There was someone on here asking about New York on Paddy's day.  I'd think twice about traveling.  A number of universities here have closed over the past couple of days.  And the National Guard is trying to create a containment zone in Rochelle (The Bronx) which is apparently the epicenter of NYC cases.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/world/coronavirus-news.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#link-7bab904a (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/world/coronavirus-news.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#link-7bab904a)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on March 10, 2020, 07:22:30 PM
Was in 2 American airports as well as Dublin in the last 3 days, feck all precautions regarding the spread of the virus. Flight back to Dublin was 15 % capacity. I saw no hand sanitizers in random locations, one would expect this as an elementary method to stop the spread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 10, 2020, 07:30:28 PM
Quote from: Rudi on March 10, 2020, 07:22:30 PM
Was in 2 American airports as well as Dublin in the last 3 days, feck all precautions regarding the spread of the virus. Flight back to Dublin was 15 % capacity. I saw no hand sanitizers in random locations, one would expect this as an elementary method to stop the spread.

Heard on radio this evening a lot of the big airlines are still running, even at 20% capacity, just to keep their landing slots at the big airports.  Pressure will come on them as it's environmentally bad.

The ECB and EC etc. are meeting tomorrow and they're be news after that e.g. cutting interest rates etc...although they can't get much lower.
Looks like another recession on the way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 10, 2020, 07:30:49 PM
Mbappe being tested. They think he will be negative though.

My wife was talking to a friend today who was supposed to be at work but wasn't. She wasn't at work because a boy in their office had been off and when asked how was his time off he nonchalantly replied he had been in northern Italy. He didn't even bat an eyelid. They shut the office and got a deep clean setup.

This is how this shit will spread >:(

I was reading a twitter thread on South Korea. A 61 year old woman was ordered to self quarantine and didn't then ended up infecting six other people. That would presumably have infected others too. Interestingly a very high percentage of the affected in South Korea were from one specific church.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 10, 2020, 07:38:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2020, 07:30:49 PM
I was reading a twitter thread on South Korea. A 61 year old woman was ordered to self quarantine and didn't then ended up infecting six other people. That would presumably have infected others too. Interestingly a very high percentage of the affected in South Korea were from one specific church.

The church in Korea was encouraging people to come in while sick.
In Singapore a number of cases relate to one dinner function, where someone decided to go although not feeling the best, "sure it would be pity to miss it".

Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 10, 2020, 07:19:24 PM
There was someone on here asking about New York on Paddy's day.  I'd think twice about traveling.  A number of universities here have closed over the past couple of days.  And the National Guard is trying to create a containment zone in Rochelle (The Bronx) which is apparently the epicenter of NYC cases.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/world/coronavirus-news.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#link-7bab904a (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/world/coronavirus-news.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#link-7bab904a)

I presume if you stay in a Trump hotel there will be no problem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 10, 2020, 07:46:00 PM
We've been asked to work from home for the next two weeks. I'm also at graduate school and all in-person lectures and exams are off. (Which is a blessing in disguise in my case because I was due to take an exam tonight that I'm not ready for!) There's also been the first reported death in Santa Clara County. We're still sending the wee one to daycare though (in the car rather than the bus as usual), but we'll keep an eye on that situation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 07:47:54 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 10, 2020, 07:00:40 PM
Word of warning against replying to miltown, or you will be called all sorts, trying to paint himself like he cares now, its miltown first f**k the rest.

Jesus lad you're so angry! Honestly,  get help :-*
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 07:51:53 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 10, 2020, 05:29:51 PM
Quote from: APM on March 10, 2020, 05:23:08 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 10, 2020, 05:16:17 PM
The 'it's no worse than flu' brigade are either thick as champ or being wilfully awkward.

The whole point here is that the various health services have already factored in the numbers of flu, cancer, heart attack, etc etc figures into their calculations?

And that's how they've become the size they are.

Yes, this disease might not have a huge mortality rate (in comparison) but it going to be widespread and it simply hasn't been budgeted for (AT ALL).

Therefore it completely fcuks all calculations for number of hospitals/beds/nurses out the window and collapses already severely strained services.

Ergo, more people die.

Or they are absolute pricks or sociopaths.  There is already evidence of people willfully spreading the disease in other parts of the world and people refusing to self-isolate.  That is criminal behaviour and no different to someone who gives someone aids by not telling them they have HIV.

Or people like getoverthebar, self centred individuals who won't be told by anyone as they know more than the expert's, with attitudes like his and others prevalent on this thread folk have no chance. Even now he still banging on it's no worse than the flu, a major shift from his original quote that it was just the flu. I am sure same boy wouldn't sell isolate, he wouldn't accept he had to. ::)

Again showing yourself up to look rather mental. Keep going.

Anyway, in news more encouraging about a virus around for many, many years. Causing the deaths of many, many people this is rather promising news I'm sure you will agree?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51804454

Saying that, you sound very much like someone who won't give a fiddlers shite as it's unlikely to affect you in any way.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 10, 2020, 07:58:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2020, 07:30:49 PM
Mbappe being tested. They think he will be negative though.

My wife was talking to a friend today who was supposed to be at work but wasn't. She wasn't at work because a boy in their office had been off and when asked how was his time off he nonchalantly replied he had been in northern Italy. He didn't even bat an eyelid. They shut the office and got a deep clean setup.

This is how this shit will spread >:(

I was reading a twitter thread on South Korea. A 61 year old woman was ordered to self quarantine and didn't then ended up infecting six other people. That would presumably have infected others too. Interestingly a very high percentage of the affected in South Korea were from one specific church.

People should have been taken off planes from Italy and been forced into quarantine. Lots of people will self isolate, but some won't. This virus is a threat to the whole island. We can't take any chances that some bollix will spread it around the country!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 07:59:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 10, 2020, 04:55:58 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 04:23:19 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 10, 2020, 02:41:21 PM
Nearly as well as

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM


It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

Point stands.

Symptoms are flu like, no matter if you like it or not. And the prevention is also that of avoiding the flu....No matter how hard you try to make this into the worst thing to ever happen in the world and it's going to infect and kill every single person standing on the planet....it's not. You've been harping on for a week now and the prevention is still the same....wash the hands, don't get coughed on.....etc.

I was reading this thread after returning from Europe at the weekend and see you mentioned me two or three times. It's bordering on stalking at this stage but I'm more than happy to keep you on a hook and it's a round about compliment that you have taken to me.

Forgive me, but isn't the latest from China that they have now curbed the worst of it?

How is the worldwide recovery rate now....last I checked it was rising just as quick as the infections. That alone should really indicate that whilst this is not ideal. It is certainly not the end of us.

Spoken like someone who doesn't give a f*** about the elderly.

Not in the slightest. My issue is with this man who seems to have a rather odd obsession with me because I don't really want to take to an internet message board expressing life as we know it is over. Please disregard any general point directed at him because I've just taken to prodding him now.

I'm willing to reply in a normal manner with anyone else about this - my point is that I grew up in Ulster during the troubles, without the whole sob story, unfortunately I've seen things that kind of stick with you. I've had enough of life living in fear and wondering what the next week is going to bring. This Covid 19 may well continue around for months, it may not. I just won't be taking heed to sensationalists like this guy in here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 10, 2020, 08:17:41 PM
+10 cases in 26 counties.
But all traceable to existing cases and travel, so not entirely panic-inducing.

I do note that they have done 6 times as many tests in the 26 counties as the wee 6, although the population difference is only 2.5 times.
Testing is the way forward.

I see also the Chinese have offered the Italians 50,000 test kits.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on March 10, 2020, 08:24:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 10, 2020, 08:17:41 PM


I do note that they have done 6 times as many tests in the 26 counties as the wee 6, although the population difference is only 2.5 times.

If you could do the calc showing number of nordies as proportion of people getting off Italian flights (vast majority into Dublin) you might be able to rationalise it. The tests are going to be skewed towards people who have been in contact with these returnees.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: manfromdelmonte on March 10, 2020, 08:42:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 10, 2020, 08:17:41 PM
+10 cases in 26 counties.
But all traceable to existing cases and travel, so not entirely panic-inducing.

I do note that they have done 6 times as many tests in the 26 counties as the wee 6, although the population difference is only 2.5 times.
Testing is the way forward.

I see also the Chinese have offered the Italians 50,000 test kits.
The Italians will need 20 times that amount
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 10, 2020, 08:44:48 PM
Quote from: Rois on March 10, 2020, 08:24:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 10, 2020, 08:17:41 PM


I do note that they have done 6 times as many tests in the 26 counties as the wee 6, although the population difference is only 2.5 times.

If you could do the calc showing number of nordies as proportion of people getting off Italian flights (vast majority into Dublin) you might be able to rationalise it. The tests are going to be skewed towards people who have been in contact with these returnees.

Do nordies especially visit northern Italy, while freestaters like to sky in St Moritz or Courchevel?

Quote from: manfromdelmonte on March 10, 2020, 08:42:40 PM
The Italians will need 20 times that amount

No doubt, but perhaps the Chinese need to keep some for themselves.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 10, 2020, 08:46:48 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 10, 2020, 02:41:21 PM
Nearly as well as

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM


It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 10, 2020, 08:48:12 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 07:59:06 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 10, 2020, 04:55:58 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 04:23:19 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 10, 2020, 02:41:21 PM
Nearly as well as

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2020, 10:27:51 AM


It's the flu, not Leprosy. More hysteria.

Point stands.

Symptoms are flu like, no matter if you like it or not. And the prevention is also that of avoiding the flu....No matter how hard you try to make this into the worst thing to ever happen in the world and it's going to infect and kill every single person standing on the planet....it's not. You've been harping on for a week now and the prevention is still the same....wash the hands, don't get coughed on.....etc.

I was reading this thread after returning from Europe at the weekend and see you mentioned me two or three times. It's bordering on stalking at this stage but I'm more than happy to keep you on a hook and it's a round about compliment that you have taken to me.

Forgive me, but isn't the latest from China that they have now curbed the worst of it?

How is the worldwide recovery rate now....last I checked it was rising just as quick as the infections. That alone should really indicate that whilst this is not ideal. It is certainly not the end of us.

Spoken like someone who doesn't give a f*** about the elderly.

Not in the slightest. My issue is with this man who seems to have a rather odd obsession with me because I don't really want to take to an internet message board expressing life as we know it is over. Please disregard any general point directed at him because I've just taken to prodding him now.

I'm willing to reply in a normal manner with anyone else about this - my point is that I grew up in Ulster during the troubles, without the whole sob story, unfortunately I've seen things that kind of stick with you. I've had enough of life living in fear and wondering what the next week is going to bring. This Covid 19 may well continue around for months, it may not. I just won't be taking heed to sensationalists like this guy in here.

I'm ok with that as long as you dont do reckless things that endanger your family,friends and the country in general.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 10, 2020, 08:49:35 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2020, 07:30:49 PM
Mbappe being tested. They think he will be negative though.

My wife was talking to a friend today who was supposed to be at work but wasn't. She wasn't at work because a boy in their office had been off and when asked how was his time off he nonchalantly replied he had been in northern Italy. He didn't even bat an eyelid. They shut the office and got a deep clean setup.

This is how this shit will spread >:(

I was reading a twitter thread on South Korea. A 61 year old woman was ordered to self quarantine and didn't then ended up infecting six other people. That would presumably have infected others too. Interestingly a very high percentage of the affected in South Korea were from one specific church.

Thats why China will come out of this,that 61 year old would've been dragged off in a police truck in wuhan.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 09:05:34 PM
A lot of airlines will not recover from this, the environmentalist will be happy on that one. There's a conspiracy right there!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on March 10, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 10, 2020, 08:44:48 PM
Quote from: Rois on March 10, 2020, 08:24:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 10, 2020, 08:17:41 PM


I do note that they have done 6 times as many tests in the 26 counties as the wee 6, although the population difference is only 2.5 times.

If you could do the calc showing number of nordies as proportion of people getting off Italian flights (vast majority into Dublin) you might be able to rationalise it. The tests are going to be skewed towards people who have been in contact with these returnees.

Do nordies especially visit northern Italy, while freestaters like to sky in St Moritz or Courchevel?

Quote from: manfromdelmonte on March 10, 2020, 08:42:40 PM
The Italians will need 20 times that amount

No doubt, but perhaps the Chinese need to keep some for themselves.
I think your point was that there were proportionately higher number of tests per head in the south, or the south should have 2.5 times more tests than the north, but they have six times more. Probably as a result of the numerous direct flights into Dublin. Even if the flights are 1:2.5, the multiplier effect would take hold.
As to your specific point, the direct Belfast to Geneva or Salzburg flights in ski season mean that more nordies ski in France or Austria 😁
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 10, 2020, 09:35:02 PM
Quote from: Rois on March 10, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 10, 2020, 08:44:48 PM
Quote from: Rois on March 10, 2020, 08:24:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 10, 2020, 08:17:41 PM


I do note that they have done 6 times as many tests in the 26 counties as the wee 6, although the population difference is only 2.5 times.

If you could do the calc showing number of nordies as proportion of people getting off Italian flights (vast majority into Dublin) you might be able to rationalise it. The tests are going to be skewed towards people who have been in contact with these returnees.

Do nordies especially visit northern Italy, while freestaters like to sky in St Moritz or Courchevel?

Quote from: manfromdelmonte on March 10, 2020, 08:42:40 PM
The Italians will need 20 times that amount

No doubt, but perhaps the Chinese need to keep some for themselves.
I think your point was that there were proportionately higher number of tests per head in the south, or the south should have 2.5 times more tests than the north, but they have six times more. Probably as a result of the numerous direct flights into Dublin. Even if the flights are 1:2.5, the multiplier effect would take hold.
As to your specific point, the direct Belfast to Geneva or Salzburg flights in ski season mean that more nordies ski in France or Austria 😁

That makes sense. In addition, the south has other international links from foreign companies and more people coming and going.

Things could be worse, they are now testing people in hospitals with pneumonia and there doesn't yet seem to be a load of other cases with no connection to Italy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 10, 2020, 09:59:42 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 07:59:06 PM

Not in the slightest. My issue is with this man who seems to have a rather odd obsession with me because I don't really want to take to an internet message board expressing life as we know it is over. Please disregard any general point directed at him because I've just taken to prodding him now.

I'm willing to reply in a normal manner with anyone else about this - my point is that I grew up in Ulster during the troubles, without the whole sob story, unfortunately I've seen things that kind of stick with you. I've had enough of life living in fear and wondering what the next week is going to bring. This Covid 19 may well continue around for months, it may not. I just won't be taking heed to sensationalists like this guy in here.

"I grew up during the Troubles" is the strangest excuse I've heard yet for playing down the threat of this virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 10, 2020, 10:10:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 10, 2020, 09:59:42 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 07:59:06 PM

Not in the slightest. My issue is with this man who seems to have a rather odd obsession with me because I don't really want to take to an internet message board expressing life as we know it is over. Please disregard any general point directed at him because I've just taken to prodding him now.

I'm willing to reply in a normal manner with anyone else about this - my point is that I grew up in Ulster during the troubles, without the whole sob story, unfortunately I've seen things that kind of stick with you. I've had enough of life living in fear and wondering what the next week is going to bring. This Covid 19 may well continue around for months, it may not. I just won't be taking heed to sensationalists like this guy in here.

"I grew up during the Troubles" is the strangest excuse I've heard yet for playing down the threat of this virus.

The man is a sociopath couldn't give a flying one about anyone, ffs is he the only one grew up in the troubles, no doubt they didn't touch him either so he didn't give a f**k.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 10, 2020, 10:45:13 PM
Heard today the lad who played football at the weekend was in Northen Italy and got tested on his return but had no symptoms... he was told to carry on as normal!!!

Test results came back and c'est la vie!!

It's coming wash your hands and self isolate if you're told to... getting angry at lads on a GAA discussion board is probably not going to help your situation!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 10:52:25 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 10, 2020, 10:45:13 PM
Heard today the lad who played football at the weekend was in Northen Italy and got tested on his return but had no symptoms... he was told to carry on as normal!!!

Test results came back and c'est la vie!!

It's coming wash your hands and self isolate if you're told to... getting angry at lads on a GAA discussion board is probably not going to help your situation!!

No symptoms for five days, why would these test results not be given on the day?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on March 10, 2020, 11:00:59 PM
(https://sluggerotoole.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/THE-CURVE.jpeg)

I thought this was a nice simple graphic to explain the need for taking responsible action over the next while. Just in case anyone out there was still insistent on being a dick.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 11:22:34 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 10, 2020, 11:00:59 PM
(https://sluggerotoole.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/THE-CURVE.jpeg)

I thought this was a nice simple graphic to explain the need for taking responsible action over the next while. Just in case anyone out there was still insistent on being a dick.

Who's not taking precautions?

The amount of boarders who lose their shit to anonymous strangers is staggering
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on March 10, 2020, 11:55:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 11:22:34 PM

Who's not taking precautions?

The amount of boarders who lose their shit to anonymous strangers is staggering

Calm down love, not every post in this thread is aimed directly at you.

As for who still isn't taking adequate precautions? A significant proportion of the population, in my observations these last few days anyway. It helps to reinforce the message that the little things we can all do matters greatly.

Sadly, as the virus establishes here it's likely only a matter of time before the 'sure there's nothing we can do about it now' trope gains traction. It's usually the next weapon in the denialist's arsenal once the 'it's not really that serious' line becomes too hot to spin.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2020, 12:09:31 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 10, 2020, 11:55:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2020, 11:22:34 PM

Who's not taking precautions?

The amount of boarders who lose their shit to anonymous strangers is staggering

Calm down love, not every post in this thread is aimed directly at you.

As for who still isn't taking adequate precautions? A significant proportion of the population, in my observations these last few days anyway. It helps to reinforce the message that the little things we can all do matters greatly.

Sadly, as the virus establishes here it's likely only a matter of time before the 'sure there's nothing we can do about it now' trope gains traction. It's usually the next weapon in the denialist's arsenal once the 'it's not really that serious' line becomes too hot to spin.

I just asked the question.

People are flippant every day, spreading infections virus and not a Thread  was made up about it, the common flu has been killing people for years, one of the biggest killers of this sort is tuberculosis, not a thread about it and how we could stop it worldwide.

Malaria kills more but it doesn't impact on us so we forget about it, or not bother talk about, but this ? Feck we lose our shit. Will this virus wipe out more people? We don't know, but common sense and  less mass hysteria will certainly bring some calm about the place.

And another post of I hope no one in your family gets it crap! If you're of a certain age then you'll have parents that fall into that bracket, let's just hope the miss out and get a vaccine for next year sorted.

Small business are going to be wiped out. Expect another recession 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on March 11, 2020, 12:17:49 AM
Face-palm.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 11, 2020, 12:21:32 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51827356

:o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 11, 2020, 12:38:27 AM
If we get a warm spell, will that increase or decrease the spread? Does this have a season like flu?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 11, 2020, 12:46:53 AM
Quote from: ONeill on March 11, 2020, 12:17:49 AM
Face-palm.

I hope you washed your hands first.

Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 11, 2020, 12:21:32 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51827356

:o

Will everyone she was in contact with self isolate for  14 days? 

Quote from: BennyCake on March 11, 2020, 12:38:27 AM
If we get a warm spell, will that increase or decrease the spread? Does this have a season like flu?

Unclear. Hopefully it does, Italy at least will have warmish weather quite soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 11, 2020, 02:34:55 AM
Manchester City v Arsenal off.

https://amp.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/manchester-city-v-arsenal-postponed-as-gunners-players-self-isolate-at-home-amid-coronavirus-concerns-39035100.html?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Niall Quinn on March 11, 2020, 03:24:57 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 10, 2020, 11:00:59 PM
(https://sluggerotoole.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/THE-CURVE.jpeg)

I thought this was a nice simple graphic to explain the need for taking responsible action over the next while. Just in case anyone out there was still insistent on being a dick.

So this whole thing will be over in half the time if we don't take protective measures?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on March 11, 2020, 03:49:23 AM
Quote from: Niall Quinn on March 11, 2020, 03:24:57 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 10, 2020, 11:00:59 PM
(https://sluggerotoole.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/THE-CURVE.jpeg)

I thought this was a nice simple graphic to explain the need for taking responsible action over the next while. Just in case anyone out there was still insistent on being a dick.

So this whole thing will be over in half the time if we don't take protective measures?

Perhaps.  But how sure can we be of any significant conclusions we draw from a picture of a puffin lying on its back?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 11, 2020, 06:34:40 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/TonightVMTV/status/1237533886587920384
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maurice Moss on March 11, 2020, 06:56:39 AM
Work in a building of 200+ people or so in Belfast. I've been fairly critical of our response to this whole coronavirus response and have been on at them for weeks to get people the ability to work from home. We've an office in Portadown also and in Dublin. I was speaking with a colleague in Portadown yesterday and she told me that they had a member of staff who was working in an isolated room on his own as he was at the same party as the Portadown footballer that tested positive a few days ago. He was in close contact with the footballer for an extended period of time. This guy wasn't sent home, he was put into a room and allowed to work from there as no ability to work from home. To me this is highly reckless and is a disaster waiting to happen.

In my office, I work in very close proximity with a guy from St Galls who was in the bar at the same time as their club member was who has now been confirmed as positive. He went to management to express concerns and they told him not to worry and to let them know if he had any symptoms then they would look at him taking time off.

Seriously considering laying off work for a few days as its going to dramatically shoot up and I literally cannot risk being exposed. I, and I'm sure along with many others, have very close family members that would be in the mortality bracket. If they get it, it's game over.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 11, 2020, 07:26:37 AM
Quote from: Niall Quinn on March 11, 2020, 03:24:57 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 10, 2020, 11:00:59 PM
(https://sluggerotoole.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/THE-CURVE.jpeg)

I thought this was a nice simple graphic to explain the need for taking responsible action over the next while. Just in case anyone out there was still insistent on being a dick.

So this whole thing will be over in half the time if we don't take protective measures?
With say 20,000 deaths
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 11, 2020, 08:59:27 AM
53 Pages. It's like the old Tyrone V Armagh threads. Will we beat 100? 200? Although we might not, as the virus takes hold and everyone dies like many seem to expect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on March 11, 2020, 09:22:21 AM
Trailer you are one seriously weird person.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 11, 2020, 09:28:35 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 10, 2020, 10:10:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 10, 2020, 09:59:42 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 07:59:06 PM

Not in the slightest. My issue is with this man who seems to have a rather odd obsession with me because I don't really want to take to an internet message board expressing life as we know it is over. Please disregard any general point directed at him because I've just taken to prodding him now.

I'm willing to reply in a normal manner with anyone else about this - my point is that I grew up in Ulster during the troubles, without the whole sob story, unfortunately I've seen things that kind of stick with you. I've had enough of life living in fear and wondering what the next week is going to bring. This Covid 19 may well continue around for months, it may not. I just won't be taking heed to sensationalists like this guy in here.

"I grew up during the Troubles" is the strangest excuse I've heard yet for playing down the threat of this virus.

The man is a sociopath couldn't give a flying one about anyone, ffs is he the only one grew up in the troubles, no doubt they didn't touch him either so he didn't give a f**k.

Eloquent AFM.

Swearing is a key sign of a lack of education, something that has been plainly obvious with you in this thread.

Didn't even acknowledge the link I sent about a 2nd person being cured (all being well) of HIV. For someone so keen to force feed the bad news on one virus that the large majority recover from, it would seem strange to not even acknowledge positive news about a disease that has killed 32 million on a quick google search (And currently affects 32-44 million).

You said something about being a sociopath? HIV doesn't affect me because I'm not gay I suppose your one of "those" people.

Away and have a read of the thread in the general discussion about the medical status of the board members here.

You only think you have problems you sanctimonious little tosser.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 11, 2020, 09:35:26 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 10, 2020, 09:59:42 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 07:59:06 PM

Not in the slightest. My issue is with this man who seems to have a rather odd obsession with me because I don't really want to take to an internet message board expressing life as we know it is over. Please disregard any general point directed at him because I've just taken to prodding him now.

I'm willing to reply in a normal manner with anyone else about this - my point is that I grew up in Ulster during the troubles, without the whole sob story, unfortunately I've seen things that kind of stick with you. I've had enough of life living in fear and wondering what the next week is going to bring. This Covid 19 may well continue around for months, it may not. I just won't be taking heed to sensationalists like this guy in here.

"I grew up during the Troubles" is the strangest excuse I've heard yet for playing down the threat of this virus.

It's not downplaying it, not one bit. It's that it won't, all being well and within Govt regulations change my day to day life in any way if I can help it. Which I'm sure you'll agree is a reasonable thing for anyone to do.

The problem with AFM is, he/she/"it" thinks that if you don't lock yourself up here your a carrier and is really bordering on Schizophrenia in this thread and has already accused me of carrying the disease for Christ sake.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 11, 2020, 09:39:49 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 11, 2020, 09:22:21 AM
Trailer you are one seriously weird person.

Here, have you seen the people stockpiling toilet paper? That's weird.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 11, 2020, 09:42:58 AM
*swearing is a sign of the uneducated

*signs off calling someone a tosser

;D
keep er lit lads
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 11, 2020, 09:43:46 AM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 11, 2020, 09:42:58 AM
*swearing is a sign of the uneducated

*signs off calling someone a tosser

;D
keep er lit lads

Not much a pig recognises only a grunt is the old saying, isn't it  :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 11, 2020, 09:51:13 AM
This thread is seriously depressing and not because of the threat of Covid-19 but for the simple face people can't have a reasoned debate without the need to constantly snipe at each other to the point that getting the dig in is the number one objective. Any debate or conversation is completely lost. People don't always agree but why the need to keep with retaliation after retaliation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 10:12:15 AM
My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn;t called a country lockdown for UK
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 11, 2020, 10:22:08 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 11, 2020, 07:26:37 AM
With say 20,000 deaths

If you let rip then you could have 100,000 deaths on the island.
60% of the population get it, 2.5% die. If the latter % seems high it is not if the health service gets overwhelmed, as happened in Wuhan and now some cities in Italy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 11, 2020, 10:23:20 AM
I unfortunately think that the current prime minister is such an unscrupulous person he may see this as an opportunity :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on March 11, 2020, 10:24:17 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 10:12:15 AM
My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn;t called a country lockdown for UK

I dont understand why because it is only killing older people, it's not too much to worry about. If for instance I was to get it through work, public transport etc and passed it on unintentionally to a neighbour or family member who was more susceptible to the Coronavirus than me, and died, I'd find it very hard to live with.

Surely we have a social responsibility to make whatever sacrifices in the short term to protect everyone from this virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 11, 2020, 10:25:58 AM
3000 atletico fans who can't watch their team at home because of COVID-19 will be in Liverpool tonight. This could really set it off in England.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on March 11, 2020, 10:27:47 AM
I thought I heard on the news last night that Italy had a 6% mortality rate, now I had only flicked over and could have picked it up wrong, but if true is very concerning.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 11, 2020, 10:28:50 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 11, 2020, 09:51:13 AM
This thread is seriously depressing and not because of the threat of Covid-19 but for the simple face people can't have a reasoned debate without the need to constantly snipe at each other to the point that getting the dig in is the number one objective. Any debate or conversation is completely lost. People don't always agree but why the need to keep with retaliation after retaliation.

Everyone is an expert virologist these days, did you not notice?   :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2020, 10:30:57 AM
Quote from: ardtole on March 11, 2020, 10:27:47 AM
I thought I heard on the news last night that Italy had a 6% mortality rate, now I had only flicked over and could have picked it up wrong, but if true is very concerning.

Yes that is correct. 6% in Italy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 11, 2020, 10:33:53 AM
Quote from: Maurice Moss on March 11, 2020, 06:56:39 AM
Work in a building of 200+ people or so in Belfast. I've been fairly critical of our response to this whole coronavirus response and have been on at them for weeks to get people the ability to work from home. We've an office in Portadown also and in Dublin. I was speaking with a colleague in Portadown yesterday and she told me that they had a member of staff who was working in an isolated room on his own as he was at the same party as the Portadown footballer that tested positive a few days ago. He was in close contact with the footballer for an extended period of time. This guy wasn't sent home, he was put into a room and allowed to work from there as no ability to work from home. To me this is highly reckless and is a disaster waiting to happen.

In my office, I work in very close proximity with a guy from St Galls who was in the bar at the same time as their club member was who has now been confirmed as positive. He went to management to express concerns and they told him not to worry and to let them know if he had any symptoms then they would look at him taking time off.

Seriously considering laying off work for a few days as its going to dramatically shoot up and I literally cannot risk being exposed. I, and I'm sure along with many others, have very close family members that would be in the mortality bracket. If they get it, it's game over.

f**k sake.

This should not have got to this point. We can't rely on every person to self isolate. It should have been made compulsory for those entering the country. I fear it's far too late now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 11, 2020, 10:37:31 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 10:12:15 AM
My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn;t called a country lockdown for UK

You should have called the **** out. Selfish p***k.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 11, 2020, 10:43:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2020, 10:30:57 AM
Quote from: ardtole on March 11, 2020, 10:27:47 AM
I thought I heard on the news last night that Italy had a 6% mortality rate, now I had only flicked over and could have picked it up wrong, but if true is very concerning.

Yes that is correct. 6% in Italy

Newnight was interesting last night in so much as one of the US based scientists was asked the question who is leading the way in dealing with it and who wasn't.

He felt that China had gotten the hold of it but only by introducing measures that would be unpallatable in the west but felt that South Korea were on the right path as they were carrying out a serious amount of testing and were then able to contain it better.

The worst he felt was actually the US as their levels of testing was multiples of magnitude less than the South Korean's and hence in the US they'd no idea where or how even to start containing to any significant degree.

WRT the UK, they seem to be following the train of scientific thought that there needs to be a reasonable amount of contagion within the population to allow immunisation to take hold, nip this in the bud too early and there's be a larger second wave if not the summer then autumn winter this/next year.

Boris knows that the NHS can't cope with a huge outbreak in those months and is holding out till the summer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 11, 2020, 10:44:08 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 10:12:15 AM
My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn;t called a country lockdown for UK

Some of us are at risk now. It's not just the elderly!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 11, 2020, 10:58:37 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 10:12:15 AM
My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn;t called a country lockdown for UK

Who on earth would buy a collapsed health system?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on March 11, 2020, 11:05:54 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 10:12:15 AM
My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn;t called a country lockdown for UK

Surely the best so far!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 11, 2020, 11:07:49 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 10:12:15 AM
My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn;t called a country lockdown for UK

I dont think (hope) you arent saying it isnt much to worry about that its mostly killing older people considering that would directly impact millions of people who have older relatives......you also forgot to mention the high volume of those sick that arent 'old' that it will also kill off.

All things considered if it hits these shores with the ferocity it has hit China & Italy then the old, sick and their relatives have plenty to worry about
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 11, 2020, 11:14:14 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 11, 2020, 09:35:26 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 10, 2020, 09:59:42 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2020, 07:59:06 PM

Not in the slightest. My issue is with this man who seems to have a rather odd obsession with me because I don't really want to take to an internet message board expressing life as we know it is over. Please disregard any general point directed at him because I've just taken to prodding him now.

I'm willing to reply in a normal manner with anyone else about this - my point is that I grew up in Ulster during the troubles, without the whole sob story, unfortunately I've seen things that kind of stick with you. I've had enough of life living in fear and wondering what the next week is going to bring. This Covid 19 may well continue around for months, it may not. I just won't be taking heed to sensationalists like this guy in here.

"I grew up during the Troubles" is the strangest excuse I've heard yet for playing down the threat of this virus.

It's not downplaying it, not one bit. It's that it won't, all being well and within Govt regulations change my day to day life in any way if I can help it. Which I'm sure you'll agree is a reasonable thing for anyone to do.

The problem with AFM is, he/she/"it" thinks that if you don't lock yourself up here your a carrier and is really bordering on Schizophrenia in this thread and has already accused me of carrying the disease for Christ sake.

If you are not changing your every day behaviours then you are part of the problem. My work place has just implemented rules reducing number in canteen, insisting people stay 2m apart in meeting rooms and temperature checks at the doors in the morning. Its a change but it is absolutely warranted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 11, 2020, 11:16:10 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2020, 10:30:57 AM
Quote from: ardtole on March 11, 2020, 10:27:47 AM
I thought I heard on the news last night that Italy had a 6% mortality rate, now I had only flicked over and could have picked it up wrong, but if true is very concerning.

Yes that is correct. 6% in Italy

Yes, but most of that it seems is because their health service has collapsed. So at low levels you are probably at 1.5% mortality but when it goes out of control and you crash your health service, you get 6%. Moral of story, act before the thing gets out of control.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on March 11, 2020, 11:20:05 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 11, 2020, 11:16:10 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2020, 10:30:57 AM
Quote from: ardtole on March 11, 2020, 10:27:47 AM
I thought I heard on the news last night that Italy had a 6% mortality rate, now I had only flicked over and could have picked it up wrong, but if true is very concerning.

Yes that is correct. 6% in Italy

Yes, but most of that it seems is because their health service has collapsed. So at low levels you are probably at 1.5% mortality but when it goes out of control and you crash your health service, you get 6%. Moral of story, act before the thing gets out of control.

I don't know if this would be enough to affect the mortality rate, but i heard somewhere that Italy has one of the oldest populations in Europe. Would mean more people susceptible
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 11:26:33 AM
Quote from: Taylor on March 11, 2020, 11:07:49 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 10:12:15 AM
My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn;t called a country lockdown for UK


I dont think (hope) you arent saying it isnt much to worry about that its mostly killing older people considering that would directly impact millions of people who have older relatives......you also forgot to mention the high volume of those sick that arent 'old' that it will also kill off.

All things considered if it hits these shores with the ferocity it has hit China & Italy then the old, sick and their relatives have plenty to worry about

Not to sound like a troll but you all realize people don't live forever? over 80+ has 16% mortality rate whereas 60 and under is less than the average of 3%

The health system is on its knees atm and in US they are wanting parts of it already and its in the shit - You obviously don't know how profitable healthcare is and that investing in a broken system and making it private would make someone extremely weathly.

Look at shares in pharmaceutical companies since the virus broke $$$
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 11, 2020, 11:27:36 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 11, 2020, 11:16:10 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2020, 10:30:57 AM
Quote from: ardtole on March 11, 2020, 10:27:47 AM
I thought I heard on the news last night that Italy had a 6% mortality rate, now I had only flicked over and could have picked it up wrong, but if true is very concerning.

Yes that is correct. 6% in Italy

Yes, but most of that it seems is because their health service has collapsed. So at low levels you are probably at 1.5% mortality but when it goes out of control and you crash your health service, you get 6%. Moral of story, act before the thing gets out of control.
600 dead/10,000 cases exposed
It depends on how they count the cases. If they leave out less serious cases exposed the  mortality rate would be lower

For ages over 80 the mortality rate so far is 15%
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: outinfront on March 11, 2020, 11:29:55 AM
Basically both correct.  Measures weren't taken quick enough, the virus was in Northern Italy for a long time before it was detected and I think Italy has a large percentage of elderly people in it's population.  This means the healthcare service is on it's knees as it is unable to cope with the sheer volume of people needing Intensive Care (on top of what would already be a challenging time of year). 
Italy have a superior healthcare system to here.  In fact at any one time 95% of NI ICU beds are occupied.  So you can imagine that it wouldn't take too much to tip our system over the edge.  Hence the call to take stricter precautions now in the hope to delay the peak of the epidemic to the summer when hopefully the healthcare system can handle it better.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 11, 2020, 11:37:12 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 11:26:33 AM
Quote from: Taylor on March 11, 2020, 11:07:49 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 10:12:15 AM
My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn;t called a country lockdown for UK


I dont think (hope) you arent saying it isnt much to worry about that its mostly killing older people considering that would directly impact millions of people who have older relatives......you also forgot to mention the high volume of those sick that arent 'old' that it will also kill off.

All things considered if it hits these shores with the ferocity it has hit China & Italy then the old, sick and their relatives have plenty to worry about

Not to sound like a troll but you all realize people don't live forever? over 80+ has 16% mortality rate whereas 60 and under is less than the average of 3%

The health system is on its knees atm and in US they are wanting parts of it already and its in the shit - You obviously don't know how profitable healthcare is and that investing in a broken system and making it private would make someone extremely weathly.

Look at shares in pharmaceutical companies since the virus broke $$$

So basically, "we all have to die sometime Granda, it may as well be now in this hospital corridor because there are no Ventilators available"?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 11:39:52 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 11, 2020, 11:37:12 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 11:26:33 AM
Quote from: Taylor on March 11, 2020, 11:07:49 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 10:12:15 AM
My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn;t called a country lockdown for UK


I dont think (hope) you arent saying it isnt much to worry about that its mostly killing older people considering that would directly impact millions of people who have older relatives......you also forgot to mention the high volume of those sick that arent 'old' that it will also kill off.

All things considered if it hits these shores with the ferocity it has hit China & Italy then the old, sick and their relatives have plenty to worry about

Not to sound like a troll but you all realize people don't live forever? over 80+ has 16% mortality rate whereas 60 and under is less than the average of 3%

The health system is on its knees atm and in US they are wanting parts of it already and its in the shit - You obviously don't know how profitable healthcare is and that investing in a broken system and making it private would make someone extremely weathly.

Look at shares in pharmaceutical companies since the virus broke $$$

So basically, "we all have to die sometime Granda, it may as well be now in this hospital corridor because there are no Ventilators available"?

Like this wasn;t happening before the virus.. Idiot
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on March 11, 2020, 11:40:10 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 10:12:15 AM
My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn't called a country lockdown for UK

I can't really square what you are saying here.  You say not too much to worry about and then you say that the NHS will collapse. 
Your post shows a terrible disregard for older people.  This disease is essentially spread by the fit and healthy population and the old and sick are like sitting ducks, waiting for someone to bring it into them.  Think about the fairness in that! 

This might seem a bit extreme, but I see parallels between this disease and the famine where ideology is put before the health of a whole cohort of people.  In the 1840s it was laissez faire economics was the order of the day and the British refused to intervene in the market despite the fact that Irish people were dying of hunger.  In the last few weeks we have seen Dublin and London put wealth before the health of the old and the sick with the governments prioritising free movement of people, lifestyle and convenience and an idealogical refusal to conduct proper restrictions and controls on people moving into the country. 

If the government doesn't lead, they can hardly be surprised when businesses don't put in place the appropriate controls and individuals behave irresponsibly. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 11, 2020, 11:42:16 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 11:39:52 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 11, 2020, 11:37:12 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 11:26:33 AM
Quote from: Taylor on March 11, 2020, 11:07:49 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 10:12:15 AM
My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn;t called a country lockdown for UK


I dont think (hope) you arent saying it isnt much to worry about that its mostly killing older people considering that would directly impact millions of people who have older relatives......you also forgot to mention the high volume of those sick that arent 'old' that it will also kill off.

All things considered if it hits these shores with the ferocity it has hit China & Italy then the old, sick and their relatives have plenty to worry about

Not to sound like a troll but you all realize people don't live forever? over 80+ has 16% mortality rate whereas 60 and under is less than the average of 3%

The health system is on its knees atm and in US they are wanting parts of it already and its in the shit - You obviously don't know how profitable healthcare is and that investing in a broken system and making it private would make someone extremely weathly.

Look at shares in pharmaceutical companies since the virus broke $$$

So basically, "we all have to die sometime Granda, it may as well be now in this hospital corridor because there are no Ventilators available"?

Like this wasn;t happening before the virus.. Idiot
Ah well, that's all right then. Health service is buckled so nothing we can do, eh.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 11, 2020, 11:46:43 AM
Quote from: APM on March 11, 2020, 11:40:10 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 10:12:15 AM
My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn't called a country lockdown for UK

I can't really square what you are saying here.  You say not too much to worry about and then you say that the NHS will collapse. 
Your post shows a terrible disregard for older people.  This disease is essentially spread by the fit and healthy population and the old and sick are like sitting ducks, waiting for someone to bring it into them.  Think about the fairness in that! 

This might seem a bit extreme, but I see parallels between this disease and the famine where ideology is put before the health of a whole cohort of people.  In the 1840s it was laissez faire economics was the order of the day and the British refused to intervene in the market despite the fact that Irish people were dying of hunger.  In the last few weeks we have seen Dublin and London put wealth before the health of the old and the sick with the governments prioritising free movement of people, lifestyle and convenience and an idealogical refusal to conduct proper restrictions and controls on people moving into the country. 

If the government doesn't lead, they can hardly be surprised when businesses don't put in place the appropriate controls and individuals behave irresponsibly.

The NHS has been run down over a a decade. It is way behind the Lombardy Health system in Italy.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/prepared-britain-coronavirus-pandemic-sophisticated-analysis/

Covering 195 countries, the GHS Index assesses countries' preparedness in six areas: prevention, detection, rapid response, strength of the health system, compliance with international norms, and the overall risk environment. It is in the latter three that the UK faces real challenges.Like many other high-income countries, the UK also has a large older population – 18.4 per cent of people in the UK are over 65, more than double the global average. In any public health emergency, older adults are especially vulnerable, but only Scotland and Wales have publicly available plans that address this issue.
When an outbreak does occur, the strength of a country's healthcare system and health workforce determine its ability to adequately treat the sick and protect health workers. And on this measure, the UK woefully underperforms thanks to chronic under-investment in the NHS.
While number two overall, the UK ranks 60th on healthcare access in the GHS Index. Among high income European countries, only Poland has fewer doctors per capita. Germany has almost half again as many at 419 doctors for every 100,000 people, compared to only 283 in the UK. The country also has less than half the hospital beds per capita of France, and only a third of what's available in Germany
in the past week, there have been indications that the government might be considering withdrawal from important mechanisms for information sharing with its neighbours, including the EU's Early Warning and Response System (EWRS).
This platform allows for the timely exchange of information to enable coordinated public health action, and played an important role in the response to outbreaks of Sars and bird flu. Simply put, diseases don't respect borders. The decisions made today will have direct and profound effects on the ability of the UK to respond to Covid-19 and future outbreaks.
Boris Johnson will be judged on whether or not his administration allows avoidable decimation of the elderly – and the not so elderly – and whether the National Health Service buckles in catastrophic institutional failure.
Korea has six times as many intensive care (ICU) beds per capita, and Germany four times as many. What we know so far from Lombardy is that 13pc of infected patients require ICU treatment, typically for two to three weeks.
The outbreak is already overwhelming the system in Italy's best equipped region. ICU patients are being sent to Tuscany because beds have run out

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on March 11, 2020, 11:48:30 AM
By the way - I think you are right about Johnston and the NHS.  I'm sure they won't waste this crisis and this virus and the associated recession will give them the cover to have the hardest of hard Brexit - burn it all down and start again. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 11, 2020, 11:59:56 AM
So the virus is most contagious before anyone feels unwell. It is believed contagious people shed the virus for up to 5 days before the feeling unwell. I don't think it is going to be manageable anymore and would expect it to be deep rooted into society both in Ireland and UK.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 11, 2020, 12:01:46 PM
Quote from: APM on March 11, 2020, 11:40:10 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 10:12:15 AM
My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn't called a country lockdown for UK

I can't really square what you are saying here.  You say not too much to worry about and then you say that the NHS will collapse. 
Your post shows a terrible disregard for older people.  This disease is essentially spread by the fit and healthy population and the old and sick are like sitting ducks, waiting for someone to bring it into them.  Think about the fairness in that! 

This might seem a bit extreme, but I see parallels between this disease and the famine where ideology is put before the health of a whole cohort of people.  In the 1840s it was laissez faire economics was the order of the day and the British refused to intervene in the market despite the fact that Irish people were dying of hunger.  In the last few weeks we have seen Dublin and London put wealth before the health of the old and the sick with the governments prioritising free movement of people, lifestyle and convenience and an idealogical refusal to conduct proper restrictions and controls on people moving into the country. 

If the government doesn't lead, they can hardly be surprised when businesses don't put in place the appropriate controls and individuals behave irresponsibly.

Old people aren't people.

Or something...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 11, 2020, 12:08:47 PM
Quote from: APM on March 11, 2020, 11:40:10 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 10:12:15 AM
My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn't called a country lockdown for UK

I can't really square what you are saying here.  You say not too much to worry about and then you say that the NHS will collapse. 
Your post shows a terrible disregard for older people.  This disease is essentially spread by the fit and healthy population and the old and sick are like sitting ducks, waiting for someone to bring it into them.  Think about the fairness in that! 

This might seem a bit extreme, but I see parallels between this disease and the famine where ideology is put before the health of a whole cohort of people.  In the 1840s it was laissez faire economics was the order of the day and the British refused to intervene in the market despite the fact that Irish people were dying of hunger.  In the last few weeks we have seen Dublin and London put wealth before the health of the old and the sick with the governments prioritising free movement of people, lifestyle and convenience and an idealogical refusal to conduct proper restrictions and controls on people moving into the country. 

If the government doesn't lead, they can hardly be surprised when businesses don't put in place the appropriate controls and individuals behave irresponsibly.

Yes you're right.

When it comes down to it, politicians and governments don't give two fiddlers f**k about any of us. Looking after their cronies in the banks and big businesses comes first.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on March 11, 2020, 12:14:11 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 11, 2020, 12:01:46 PM
Quote from: APM on March 11, 2020, 11:40:10 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 10:12:15 AM
My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn't called a country lockdown for UK

I can't really square what you are saying here.  You say not too much to worry about and then you say that the NHS will collapse. 
Your post shows a terrible disregard for older people.  This disease is essentially spread by the fit and healthy population and the old and sick are like sitting ducks, waiting for someone to bring it into them.  Think about the fairness in that! 

This might seem a bit extreme, but I see parallels between this disease and the famine where ideology is put before the health of a whole cohort of people.  In the 1840s it was laissez faire economics was the order of the day and the British refused to intervene in the market despite the fact that Irish people were dying of hunger.  In the last few weeks we have seen Dublin and London put wealth before the health of the old and the sick with the governments prioritising free movement of people, lifestyle and convenience and an idealogical refusal to conduct proper restrictions and controls on people moving into the country. 

If the government doesn't lead, they can hardly be surprised when businesses don't put in place the appropriate controls and individuals behave irresponsibly.

Old people aren't people.

Or something...

And there is a negligible difference in the aged population percentage between Italy and Germany but both are much higher than China.

Hardly surprising that someone with such a callous and repugnant attitude towards the elderly would be basing their opinion on made up bullshit. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 11, 2020, 12:33:48 PM
People love to take it all back to money. Like somehow the world can turn without it.

Have you considered that in Italy - now being lauded here for its action - that the reason for the Italian delays, then regionalised lockdown, then full lockdown were also entirely related to money?

You just cannot shut a country down on a whim. There has to be an implicit trust between the population and the government that if the former follows the rules, the latter will protect them.

For 90% of us that means money can't run out (for mortgages and essential bills) and food channels remain open.

I'd fully expect that the Italian government started talking to the banks weeks ago.

Conversation 1, early days, went something like this: "you want us to freeze mortgage payments because a few people are sneezing in China?.... go and f**k yourselves"

Conversation 2, a while later went something like: "you want us to freeze mortgage payments because of some virus up north that isn't killing anyone?.... go and f**k yourselves".

Conversation 3: "yes we have seen the Walking Dead and we know there's no point in having the deeds to property if civilisation is coming to an end, but we are taking our chances anyway... so go f**k yourselves".

Conversation 4: "so you're basically saying we have to freeze mortgages or you'll force through emergency legalisation, then remove all banking perks and destroy us in paperwork forever, and let the world know the banks were behind all the delays ?.... well okay then, we freeze mortgages. But get ready for a lawsuit".

And with that final conversation, Italy can begin shutting down.

I'd be pretty certain the UK and Ireland are in the same boat now. Somewhere around conversation 3. But until mortality rates increase exponentially, nobody is going to number 4.

Call it greed, call it what you like. It's just how the world works. It's much easier to get the banks to agree than to force legislation upon them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 11, 2020, 12:38:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 11, 2020, 12:38:27 AM
If we get a warm spell, will that increase or decrease the spread? Does this have a season like flu?

Warm spell will do f**k all for it.

Temperatures in Iran are ~20degC.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Truth hurts on March 11, 2020, 12:39:52 PM
GAA fixtures at the weekend and the McRory final will be played behind closed doors or a limit to 1000 people. Irish race goers at cheltenham should be advised to  self isolate when they return, as should any holiday makers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 11, 2020, 12:47:36 PM
Quote from: APM on March 11, 2020, 11:48:30 AM
By the way - I think you are right about Johnston and the NHS.  I'm sure they won't waste this crisis and this virus and the associated recession will give them the cover to have the hardest of hard Brexit - burn it all down and start again.
The virus attacks the respiratory system. The UK only has so many ventilators. Plus the NHS has been run down.
If people start dying because they can't get ventilators the Tories will be in trouble.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tonto1888 on March 11, 2020, 01:00:48 PM
Quote from: Truth hurts on March 11, 2020, 12:39:52 PM
GAA fixtures at the weekend and the McRory final will be played behind closed doors or a limit to 1000 people. Irish race goers at cheltenham should be advised to  self isolate when they return, as should any holiday makers.

Where did ye hear this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 11, 2020, 01:01:12 PM
Quote from: Truth hurts on March 11, 2020, 12:39:52 PM
GAA fixtures at the weekend and the McRory final will be played behind closed doors or a limit to 1000 people. Irish race goers at cheltenham should be advised to  self isolate when they return, as should any holiday makers.

Source?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 11, 2020, 01:04:36 PM
If they have cancelled St Patrick's Day parades I wouldn't be surprised in the GAA games were played behind closed doors
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 11, 2020, 01:06:31 PM
Quote from: Truth hurts on March 11, 2020, 12:39:52 PM
GAA fixtures at the weekend and the McRory final will be played behind closed doors or a limit to 1000 people. Irish race goers at cheltenham should be advised to  self isolate when they return, as should any holiday makers.

Where is this info coming from?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 11, 2020, 01:15:04 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 11, 2020, 01:06:31 PM
Quote from: Truth hurts on March 11, 2020, 12:39:52 PM
GAA fixtures at the weekend and the McRory final will be played behind closed doors or a limit to 1000 people. Irish race goers at cheltenham should be advised to  self isolate when they return, as should any holiday makers.

Where is this info coming from?

I'm pretty sure he's doing a Nostradamus solo run on this one. . . not to say it won't happen but I imagine it's a stab in the dark!

Also whatever about Unionists blah blah blah but surely our COVID 19 measures should be run from Dublin and not London... we're a totally seperate island with needs more in tune with this Island than the one across the water!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Truth hurts on March 11, 2020, 01:34:02 PM
I know the Ulster gaa schools committee held a video conference this morning to discuss the MacRory finals
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 11, 2020, 01:47:50 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 11, 2020, 01:15:04 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 11, 2020, 01:06:31 PM
Quote from: Truth hurts on March 11, 2020, 12:39:52 PM
GAA fixtures at the weekend and the McRory final will be played behind closed doors or a limit to 1000 people. Irish race goers at cheltenham should be advised to  self isolate when they return, as should any holiday makers.

Where is this info coming from?

I'm pretty sure he's doing a Nostradamus solo run on this one. . . not to say it won't happen but I imagine it's a stab in the dark!

If it is limited to 1000, anyone heading to Celtic Pk on Sunday should be OK  :D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 11, 2020, 01:48:25 PM
Quote from: Truth hurts on March 11, 2020, 01:34:02 PM
I know the Ulster gaa schools committee held a video conference this morning to discuss the MacRory finals

Do continue....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 11, 2020, 01:53:16 PM
There is light at the end of the tunnel, all temporarty hospitals in Wuhan closed.
(https://www.newtimes.co.rw/sites/default/files/styles/mystyle/public/main/articles/2020/03/10/xwuhan.jpg.pagespeed.ic.ac8Oziy2FT.webp)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 11, 2020, 01:54:47 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 11, 2020, 01:06:31 PM
Quote from: Truth hurts on March 11, 2020, 12:39:52 PM
GAA fixtures at the weekend and the McRory final will be played behind closed doors or a limit to 1000 people. Irish race goers at cheltenham should be advised to  self isolate when they return, as should any holiday makers.

Where is this info coming from?

Tickets sales online for weekend have just ceased!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 11, 2020, 01:59:15 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 11, 2020, 01:15:04 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 11, 2020, 01:06:31 PM
Quote from: Truth hurts on March 11, 2020, 12:39:52 PM
GAA fixtures at the weekend and the McRory final will be played behind closed doors or a limit to 1000 people. Irish race goers at cheltenham should be advised to  self isolate when they return, as should any holiday makers.

Where is this info coming from?

I'm pretty sure he's doing a Nostradamus solo run on this one. . . not to say it won't happen but I imagine it's a stab in the dark!

Also whatever about Unionists blah blah blah but surely our COVID 19 measures should be run from Dublin and not London... we're a totally seperate island with needs more in tune with this Island than the one across the water!!

Yes, can't figure that out. If the virus came in at Cork, it affects the whole island. It won't stop at the border.

f**k what Boris says. North and south need to work as one on this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 11, 2020, 02:01:22 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 01:54:47 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 11, 2020, 01:06:31 PM
Quote from: Truth hurts on March 11, 2020, 12:39:52 PM
GAA fixtures at the weekend and the McRory final will be played behind closed doors or a limit to 1000 people. Irish race goers at cheltenham should be advised to  self isolate when they return, as should any holiday makers.

Where is this info coming from?

Tickets sales online for weekend have just ceased!

Actually non-story all fixtures going ahead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: nrico2006 on March 11, 2020, 03:12:18 PM
Are there still flights going from Italy to UK/Ireland?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 11, 2020, 03:19:16 PM
First death confirmed in Ireland today  :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on March 11, 2020, 03:21:59 PM
Quote from: Mourne Red on March 11, 2020, 10:12:15 AM
My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn;t called a country lockdown for UK

Really not sure how you manage to square those two off against each other.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyrone girl on March 11, 2020, 03:35:57 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 11, 2020, 03:12:18 PM
Are there still flights going from Italy to UK/Ireland?

Dont think there are any going to Ireland but easy jet have been flying from Milan to Gatwick as recent as yesterday anyway
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 11, 2020, 03:43:48 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 11, 2020, 03:19:16 PM
First death confirmed in Ireland today  :-\

Saturday, February 29th the first confirmed case. I fear what stats will be in another month.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 11, 2020, 03:47:07 PM
Quote from: tyrone girl on March 11, 2020, 03:35:57 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 11, 2020, 03:12:18 PM
Are there still flights going from Italy to UK/Ireland?

Dont think there are any going to Ireland but easy jet have been flying from Milan to Gatwick as recent as yesterday anyway

The flights to Ireland continue for a couple of days so people can get home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 11, 2020, 04:39:31 PM
Prepare to shut down... Schools, GP practices soon to be announced. Make arrangements. Buy toilet roll.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bigarsedkeeper on March 11, 2020, 04:45:56 PM
Meant to go to Disney Paris on Monday with the kids, booked it last summer. Disney aren't closing/won't close so can't claim any money back through travel agency. Checked with the travel insurance and you don't have a claim if you decide not to travel because you are worried about the situation as it is, you have to have it to claim! Travel agents are going on like there's nothing happening at all. It stinks. Even the kids are worried about going now. I agree we shouldn't be going but that's a big bill to swallow and no way to claim any of it back. All paid for too - anybody know anyway around it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 11, 2020, 04:48:05 PM
WHO have decaled it an pandemic. It's out of control now so don't know why it isn't a pandemic.

Meanwhile whoever thought this was a good idea...

https://ibb.co/82NvwQs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on March 11, 2020, 04:57:24 PM
Looks like there is good news from Italy regarding COVID-19 (coronavirus).  Tocilizumab, an anti-arthritis drug, is showing great promise in treating coronavirus-caused pneumonia in critical cases. Chinese doctors discovered this last week, anecdotally reported to have been used successfully in Iran as well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 11, 2020, 05:02:21 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on March 11, 2020, 04:57:24 PM
Looks like there is good news from Italy regarding COVID-19 (coronavirus).  Tocilizumab, an anti-arthritis drug, is showing great promise in treating coronavirus-caused pneumonia in critical cases. Chinese doctors discovered this last week, anecdotally reported to have been used successfully in Iran as well.

Excellent. Good work them.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 11, 2020, 05:06:26 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 11, 2020, 05:02:21 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on March 11, 2020, 04:57:24 PM
Looks like there is good news from Italy regarding COVID-19 (coronavirus).  Tocilizumab, an anti-arthritis drug, is showing great promise in treating coronavirus-caused pneumonia in critical cases. Chinese doctors discovered this last week, anecdotally reported to have been used successfully in Iran as well.

Excellent. Good work them.

Anything that slows this down and helps treat people affected can only be welcomed.

Condolences to the family of the lady who passed away. RIP.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 11, 2020, 05:08:24 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 11, 2020, 05:06:26 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 11, 2020, 05:02:21 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on March 11, 2020, 04:57:24 PM
Looks like there is good news from Italy regarding COVID-19 (coronavirus).  Tocilizumab, an anti-arthritis drug, is showing great promise in treating coronavirus-caused pneumonia in critical cases. Chinese doctors discovered this last week, anecdotally reported to have been used successfully in Iran as well.

Excellent. Good work them.

Anything that slows this down and helps treat people affected can only be welcomed.

Condolences to the family of the lady who passed away. RIP.

More than that - if it can relieve the pressure on ventilators you might see a disproportionately large increase in survival rates when the shit does hit the fan.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 11, 2020, 05:15:51 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 11, 2020, 05:08:24 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 11, 2020, 05:06:26 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 11, 2020, 05:02:21 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on March 11, 2020, 04:57:24 PM
Looks like there is good news from Italy regarding COVID-19 (coronavirus).  Tocilizumab, an anti-arthritis drug, is showing great promise in treating coronavirus-caused pneumonia in critical cases. Chinese doctors discovered this last week, anecdotally reported to have been used successfully in Iran as well.

Excellent. Good work them.

Anything that slows this down and helps treat people affected can only be welcomed.

Condolences to the family of the lady who passed away. RIP.

More than that - if it can relieve the pressure on ventilators you might see a disproportionately large increase in survival rates when the shit does hit the fan.

All of this is an illustration of why measures to delay the virus now can help. It may diminish over the summer and by November you could have more ventilators, some drugs to use and more beds organised.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 11, 2020, 06:02:26 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 11, 2020, 04:45:56 PM
Meant to go to Disney Paris on Monday with the kids, booked it last summer. Disney aren't closing/won't close so can't claim any money back through travel agency. Checked with the travel insurance and you don't have a claim if you decide not to travel because you are worried about the situation as it is, you have to have it to claim! Travel agents are going on like there's nothing happening at all. It stinks. Even the kids are worried about going now. I agree we shouldn't be going but that's a big bill to swallow and no way to claim any of it back. All paid for too - anybody know anyway around it?

Feel your pain, as mentioned it's all about the money, hopefully folk stop booking in advance after this is all over and give the travel and entertainment the kick up the ass it needs. Imagine the money they have a year or so in advance of your trip.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on March 11, 2020, 06:48:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 06:02:26 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 11, 2020, 04:45:56 PM
Meant to go to Disney Paris on Monday with the kids, booked it last summer. Disney aren't closing/won't close so can't claim any money back through travel agency. Checked with the travel insurance and you don't have a claim if you decide not to travel because you are worried about the situation as it is, you have to have it to claim! Travel agents are going on like there's nothing happening at all. It stinks. Even the kids are worried about going now. I agree we shouldn't be going but that's a big bill to swallow and no way to claim any of it back. All paid for too - anybody know anyway around it?

Feel your pain, as mentioned it's all about the money, hopefully folk stop booking in advance after this is all over and give the travel and entertainment the kick up the ass it needs. Imagine the money they have a year or so in advance of your trip.

Government is to blame here.  Insurances won't kick in until the Government bites the bullet (and not all insurances will kick-in even then). They are going to need to put in place a hardline approach eventually, and better to do so soon while it has a chance of being effective. 

Anyone with a bit of sense is way ahead of the government and in reality social distancing is already going on with many businesses cancelling meetings and events and individuals / families cancelling holidays and trips. Meanwhile, government is slavishly sticking to the same line and resultingly, so too are many business and people. 

Absolute madness.  Some nonsense from talking heads on TV about the risk of people rebelling against a lockdown and how strong measures now could be counter productive. Most people I know are ready for action now to avert the kind of disaster that is playing out in Italy.

Until government give the kind of leadership that is required, we are going to be sitting in limbo with some people being highly responsible and others being highly irresponsible and people like yourself stuck in a quandry between going on holiday and cancelling and the government advice letting the travel insurer off the hook. 

>:(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 11, 2020, 06:53:39 PM
Nine more today in 26 counties and 2 in 6 counties.
Of the former, all of these are connected to travel or people already known, so not in themselves a cause for panic.
Cases of four males from the south of the country are associated with travel. A female and a male in the south  had contact with a confirmed case and three males from the east of the country, two associated with travel, one associated with contact of a confirmed case.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on March 11, 2020, 07:00:05 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on March 11, 2020, 04:57:24 PM
Looks like there is good news from Italy regarding COVID-19 (coronavirus).  Tocilizumab, an anti-arthritis drug, is showing great promise in treating coronavirus-caused pneumonia in critical cases. Chinese doctors discovered this last week, anecdotally reported to have been used successfully in Iran as well.

Great news - makes me think of this scene only its the Chinese and Italians that have the plan: ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haIMvy_Iv3E
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 11, 2020, 07:29:22 PM
It's a situation were everyone can only see the wrong, but the UK Government's position is to 'follow the Science', seems eminently sensible to me tbh, pretty sure they'll be factoring in the experiences of Italy. I'm glad they're at the wheel and not Twitter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 11, 2020, 07:33:21 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 06:02:26 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 11, 2020, 04:45:56 PM
Meant to go to Disney Paris on Monday with the kids, booked it last summer. Disney aren't closing/won't close so can't claim any money back through travel agency. Checked with the travel insurance and you don't have a claim if you decide not to travel because you are worried about the situation as it is, you have to have it to claim! Travel agents are going on like there's nothing happening at all. It stinks. Even the kids are worried about going now. I agree we shouldn't be going but that's a big bill to swallow and no way to claim any of it back. All paid for too - anybody know anyway around it?

Feel your pain, as mentioned it's all about the money, hopefully folk stop booking in advance after this is all over and give the travel and entertainment the kick up the ass it needs. Imagine the money they have a year or so in advance of your trip.

f**k me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2020, 07:50:08 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 11, 2020, 04:45:56 PM
Meant to go to Disney Paris on Monday with the kids, booked it last summer. Disney aren't closing/won't close so can't claim any money back through travel agency. Checked with the travel insurance and you don't have a claim if you decide not to travel because you are worried about the situation as it is, you have to have it to claim! Travel agents are going on like there's nothing happening at all. It stinks. Even the kids are worried about going now. I agree we shouldn't be going but that's a big bill to swallow and no way to claim any of it back. All paid for too - anybody know anyway around it?

Sort of same situation, I'm for new york on Monday. Atm I'm going
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2020, 07:55:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2020, 07:50:08 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 11, 2020, 04:45:56 PM
Meant to go to Disney Paris on Monday with the kids, booked it last summer. Disney aren't closing/won't close so can't claim any money back through travel agency. Checked with the travel insurance and you don't have a claim if you decide not to travel because you are worried about the situation as it is, you have to have it to claim! Travel agents are going on like there's nothing happening at all. It stinks. Even the kids are worried about going now. I agree we shouldn't be going but that's a big bill to swallow and no way to claim any of it back. All paid for too - anybody know anyway around it?

Sort of same situation, I'm for new york on Monday. Atm I'm going

Just stay in the Irish quarter, stay out of China town and the Mafia areas
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2020, 07:59:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2020, 07:55:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2020, 07:50:08 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 11, 2020, 04:45:56 PM
Meant to go to Disney Paris on Monday with the kids, booked it last summer. Disney aren't closing/won't close so can't claim any money back through travel agency. Checked with the travel insurance and you don't have a claim if you decide not to travel because you are worried about the situation as it is, you have to have it to claim! Travel agents are going on like there's nothing happening at all. It stinks. Even the kids are worried about going now. I agree we shouldn't be going but that's a big bill to swallow and no way to claim any of it back. All paid for too - anybody know anyway around it?

Sort of same situation, I'm for new york on Monday. Atm I'm going

Just stay in the Irish quarter, stay out of China town and the Mafia areas
👌👌
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 11, 2020, 08:16:52 PM
NYC Paddy's Parade is OFF
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2020, 08:30:14 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 11, 2020, 08:16:52 PM
NYC Paddy's Parade is OFF

Yeah I heard that, I'm for MSG to watch Conlon, probably be off too
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 11, 2020, 08:50:08 PM
The big NCAA basketball tournaments just said they would be going ahead, without spectators though
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 11, 2020, 08:50:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 11, 2020, 07:33:21 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 06:02:26 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 11, 2020, 04:45:56 PM
Meant to go to Disney Paris on Monday with the kids, booked it last summer. Disney aren't closing/won't close so can't claim any money back through travel agency. Checked with the travel insurance and you don't have a claim if you decide not to travel because you are worried about the situation as it is, you have to have it to claim! Travel agents are going on like there's nothing happening at all. It stinks. Even the kids are worried about going now. I agree we shouldn't be going but that's a big bill to swallow and no way to claim any of it back. All paid for too - anybody know anyway around it?

Feel your pain, as mentioned it's all about the money, hopefully folk stop booking in advance after this is all over and give the travel and entertainment the kick up the ass it needs. Imagine the money they have a year or so in advance of your trip.

f**k me.

Save up and book last minute, no protection booking months in advance, greedy whores the lot of them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 11, 2020, 08:57:35 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 11, 2020, 07:29:22 PM
It's a situation were everyone can only see the wrong, but the UK Government's position is to 'follow the Science', seems eminently sensible to me tbh, pretty sure they'll be factoring in the experiences of Italy. I'm glad they're at the wheel and not Twitter.

Bet the old and sick are sleeping well as a result.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 11, 2020, 09:00:44 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 08:50:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 11, 2020, 07:33:21 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 06:02:26 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 11, 2020, 04:45:56 PM
Meant to go to Disney Paris on Monday with the kids, booked it last summer. Disney aren't closing/won't close so can't claim any money back through travel agency. Checked with the travel insurance and you don't have a claim if you decide not to travel because you are worried about the situation as it is, you have to have it to claim! Travel agents are going on like there's nothing happening at all. It stinks. Even the kids are worried about going now. I agree we shouldn't be going but that's a big bill to swallow and no way to claim any of it back. All paid for too - anybody know anyway around it?

Feel your pain, as mentioned it's all about the money, hopefully folk stop booking in advance after this is all over and give the travel and entertainment the kick up the ass it needs. Imagine the money they have a year or so in advance of your trip.

f**k me.

Save up and book last minute, no protection booking months in advance, greedy whores the lot of them.

Talking of money grabbers

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51826295
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 11, 2020, 09:05:48 PM
A few or the "just shut everything down" brigade would do well to watch the scenes outside PSG tonight to see how difficult this is going to be to enforce/expect in western, liberal countries.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 11, 2020, 09:11:49 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 11, 2020, 09:05:48 PM
A few or the "just shut everything down" brigade would do well to watch the scenes outside PSG tonight to see how difficult this is going to be to enforce/expect in western, liberal countries.

Everything isn't shut down. They made the decision to play behind closed doors to reduce C19 transmission. The idiots didn't listen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 11, 2020, 09:17:35 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 11, 2020, 09:11:49 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 11, 2020, 09:05:48 PM
A few or the "just shut everything down" brigade would do well to watch the scenes outside PSG tonight to see how difficult this is going to be to enforce/expect in western, liberal countries.

Everything isn't shut down. They made the decision to play behind closed doors to reduce C19 transmission. The idiots didn't listen.

How does this change what I saying?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 11, 2020, 09:25:46 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 08:57:35 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 11, 2020, 07:29:22 PM
It's a situation were everyone can only see the wrong, but the UK Government's position is to 'follow the Science', seems eminently sensible to me tbh, pretty sure they'll be factoring in the experiences of Italy. I'm glad they're at the wheel and not Twitter.

Bet the old and sick are sleeping well as a result.

Here comes age concern again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on March 11, 2020, 09:28:23 PM
RIP to the lady who died today from it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 11, 2020, 09:29:37 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 11, 2020, 09:05:48 PM
A few or the "just shut everything down" brigade would do well to watch the scenes outside PSG tonight to see how difficult this is going to be to enforce/expect in western, liberal countries.

Most people in western countries are not cretins.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 11, 2020, 09:32:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 11, 2020, 09:25:46 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 08:57:35 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 11, 2020, 07:29:22 PM
It's a situation were everyone can only see the wrong, but the UK Government's position is to 'follow the Science', seems eminently sensible to me tbh, pretty sure they'll be factoring in the experiences of Italy. I'm glad they're at the wheel and not Twitter.

Bet the old and sick are sleeping well as a result.

Here comes age concern again.

Take it you have no relatives to worry about, or like miltown and that other nounce you are I'm alright f**k you brigade.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 11, 2020, 09:38:49 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 09:32:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 11, 2020, 09:25:46 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 08:57:35 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 11, 2020, 07:29:22 PM
It's a situation were everyone can only see the wrong, but the UK Government's position is to 'follow the Science', seems eminently sensible to me tbh, pretty sure they'll be factoring in the experiences of Italy. I'm glad they're at the wheel and not Twitter.

Bet the old and sick are sleeping well as a result.

Here comes age concern again.

Take it you have no relatives to worry about, or like miltown and that other nounce you are I'm alright f**k you brigade.

I do, but I'm not hating on everyone for going outside like yourself. Perspective. Settle petal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 11, 2020, 09:41:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 11, 2020, 09:38:49 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 09:32:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 11, 2020, 09:25:46 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 08:57:35 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 11, 2020, 07:29:22 PM
It's a situation were everyone can only see the wrong, but the UK Government's position is to 'follow the Science', seems eminently sensible to me tbh, pretty sure they'll be factoring in the experiences of Italy. I'm glad they're at the wheel and not Twitter.

Bet the old and sick are sleeping well as a result.

Here comes age concern again.

Take it you have no relatives to worry about, or like miltown and that other nounce you are I'm alright f**k you brigade.

I do, but I'm not hating on everyone for going outside like yourself. Perspective. Settle petal.

Where am I advocating that petal, quote or wind your f**king neck in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 11, 2020, 09:43:26 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 11, 2020, 09:00:44 PM

Talking of money grabbers

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51826295

No insurance company is going to offer insurance on a near certainty. They'd go out of business.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 11, 2020, 09:52:53 PM
They'd go out of business if they stuck to what they are offering.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 11, 2020, 10:02:28 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 09:41:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 11, 2020, 09:38:49 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 09:32:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 11, 2020, 09:25:46 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 08:57:35 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 11, 2020, 07:29:22 PM
It's a situation were everyone can only see the wrong, but the UK Government's position is to 'follow the Science', seems eminently sensible to me tbh, pretty sure they'll be factoring in the experiences of Italy. I'm glad they're at the wheel and not Twitter.

Bet the old and sick are sleeping well as a result.

Here comes age concern again.

Take it you have no relatives to worry about, or like miltown and that other nounce you are I'm alright f**k you brigade.

I do, but I'm not hating on everyone for going outside like yourself. Perspective. Settle petal.

Where am I advocating that petal, quote or wind your f**king neck in.

Anyone with a bit of sense is way ahead of the government and in reality social distancing is already going on with many businesses cancelling meetings and events and individuals / families cancelling holidays and trips.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 11, 2020, 10:09:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 11, 2020, 10:02:28 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 09:41:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 11, 2020, 09:38:49 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 09:32:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 11, 2020, 09:25:46 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 08:57:35 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 11, 2020, 07:29:22 PM
It's a situation were everyone can only see the wrong, but the UK Government's position is to 'follow the Science', seems eminently sensible to me tbh, pretty sure they'll be factoring in the experiences of Italy. I'm glad they're at the wheel and not Twitter.

Bet the old and sick are sleeping well as a result.

Here comes age concern again.

Take it you have no relatives to worry about, or like miltown and that other nounce you are I'm alright f**k you brigade.

I do, but I'm not hating on everyone for going outside like yourself. Perspective. Settle petal.

Where am I advocating that petal, quote or wind your f**king neck in.

Anyone with a bit of sense is way ahead of the government and in reality social distancing is already going on with many businesses cancelling meetings and events and individuals / families cancelling holidays and trips.

So you can't quote, you are talking balls
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2020, 10:22:39 PM
AFM's blood pressure must be through the roof!  Calm down lad
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 11, 2020, 10:25:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2020, 10:22:39 PM
AFM's blood pressure must be through the roof!  Calm down lad

Lad not dickhead, dick, knob, you are a princess.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2020, 10:28:19 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 10:25:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2020, 10:22:39 PM
AFM's blood pressure must be through the roof!  Calm down lad

Lad not dickhead, dick, knob, you are a princess.

You're kids must think you're the best craic
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 11, 2020, 10:32:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2020, 10:28:19 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 10:25:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2020, 10:22:39 PM
AFM's blood pressure must be through the roof!  Calm down lad

Lad not dickhead, dick, knob, you are a princess.

You're kids must think you're the best craic

So you abuse me now you bring my kids into it, you are with all due respect a **** of a human being, you must be well in with the mods to be allowed to say the things you do on a public forum.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 11, 2020, 10:36:19 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 11, 2020, 09:17:35 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 11, 2020, 09:11:49 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 11, 2020, 09:05:48 PM
A few or the "just shut everything down" brigade would do well to watch the scenes outside PSG tonight to see how difficult this is going to be to enforce/expect in western, liberal countries.

Everything isn't shut down. They made the decision to play behind closed doors to reduce C19 transmission. The idiots didn't listen.

How does this change what I saying?

Country wide lockdown is different to a stadium being locked down. The two don't compare.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on March 11, 2020, 10:36:33 PM
Lads, can you please take your petty squabbles into DM, the rest of us don't need the thread cluttered up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 11, 2020, 10:36:51 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 10:32:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2020, 10:28:19 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 10:25:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2020, 10:22:39 PM
AFM's blood pressure must be through the roof!  Calm down lad

Lad not dickhead, dick, knob, you are a princess.

You're kids must think you're the best craic

So you abuse me now you bring my kids into it, you are with all due respect a **** of a human being, you must be well in with the mods to be allowed to say the things you do on a public forum.

LOL
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2020, 10:37:50 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 10:32:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2020, 10:28:19 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 10:25:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2020, 10:22:39 PM
AFM's blood pressure must be through the roof!  Calm down lad

Lad not dickhead, dick, knob, you are a princess.

You're kids must think you're the best craic

So you abuse me now you bring my kids into it, you are with all due respect a **** of a human being, you must be well in with the mods to be allowed to say the things you do on a public forum.

You're obviously under pressure. You trolling the life out of posters on here with various different names, if you can't take a bitta banter then stop trolling. I'll react to anytime you bring me up ya wally
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: DrinkingHarp on March 11, 2020, 10:45:04 PM
Italy ups the lockdown by closing all stores, restaurants and bars excluding grocery stores and pharmacies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maurice Moss on March 11, 2020, 11:11:45 PM
Hearing from a reliable source that schools are to be closed by next Friday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 11, 2020, 11:23:11 PM
If you compare Ireland  with Denmark, the  latter has 514 confirmed cases, up 10-fold since Monday. Now they are closing schools and that is appropriate.

edit:In answer to a question from about how Ireland was doing in the wake of announcing its first death from the virus, the WHO's Michael Ryan described Ireland's response as "coherent." He said the country was sticking to a "mixed and comprehensive" strategy, by using contact tracing, case isolation and then some social distancing measures such as cancelling the St. Patrick's Day parades.

As for the capacity of the health system to cope with the virus, Ryan said: "All countries in Europe are concerned about that right now."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2020, 11:23:50 PM
Quote from: Maurice Moss on March 11, 2020, 11:11:45 PM
Hearing from a reliable source that schools are to be closed by next Friday.

All over Ireland or just in the 26?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maurice Moss on March 11, 2020, 11:52:01 PM
Just in the 6 MR2 is what I've been told
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 11, 2020, 11:57:19 PM
Quote from: Maurice Moss on March 11, 2020, 11:52:01 PM
Just in the 6 MR2 is what I've been told

Ffs this is an all island issue. Why aren't Belfast and Dublin coordinating this together?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 12, 2020, 12:09:48 AM
Rvh a&e in a deep clean due to 2 boyos with the virus headin there instead of the designated place?

Edit - waiting room only
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 12, 2020, 12:12:33 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2020, 11:23:50 PM
Quote from: Maurice Moss on March 11, 2020, 11:11:45 PM
Hearing from a reliable source that schools are to be closed by next Friday.

All over Ireland or just in the 26?

Friday week or this Friday?? Would need to be this Friday if they're going to do it!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 12, 2020, 12:14:09 AM
Quote from: Maurice Moss on March 11, 2020, 11:11:45 PM
Hearing from a reliable source that schools are to be closed by next Friday.
Aye the missus (who is a teacher) said that's going around at present that all shut from 23rd and I know the wains school are currently uploading all notes etc. onto Google Classroom.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 12, 2020, 12:30:13 AM
Going by reports tonight the rest of the Premier league season will be played behind closed doors. The same will happen for the remaining GAA NFL games?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on March 12, 2020, 12:43:07 AM
It going to be difficult to avoid getting the virus over the coming months.  Focus will switch to protecting the elderly and those in the higher risk category.  My elderly parents in law are all ready self isolating with the rest of us staying away. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 12, 2020, 01:21:35 AM
Trump banning all flights from EU, but UK exempted.
Leo will have to have a craic with him next week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dec on March 12, 2020, 01:22:03 AM
Trump just announced that all travel from Europe, except UK, to the US is suspended for 30 days
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 12, 2020, 01:26:48 AM
Quote from: dec on March 12, 2020, 01:22:03 AM
Trump just announced that all travel from Europe, except UK, to the US is suspended for 30 days

Watch the two useless f**s we have over here follow suit because they don't have a clue
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on March 12, 2020, 01:40:19 AM
NBA has just suspended the season.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 12, 2020, 02:09:39 AM
Tom Hanks and his wife have the Virus

www.nytimes.com/2020/03/11/business/media/tom-hanks-coronavirus.amp.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on March 12, 2020, 05:04:28 AM
Quote from: dec on March 12, 2020, 01:22:03 AM
Trump just announced that all travel from Europe, except UK, to the US is suspended for 30 days
Sounds like Ireland is exempt. My OH is in the US at the minute  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: The Gs Man on March 12, 2020, 07:58:47 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 12, 2020, 02:09:39 AM
Tom Hanks and his wife have the Virus

www.nytimes.com/2020/03/11/business/media/tom-hanks-coronavirus.amp.html

That man survived two plane crashes and the Vietnam War.  He'll be grand.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 12, 2020, 08:23:43 AM
Quote from: The Gs Man on March 12, 2020, 07:58:47 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 12, 2020, 02:09:39 AM
Tom Hanks and his wife have the Virus

www.nytimes.com/2020/03/11/business/media/tom-hanks-coronavirus.amp.html

That man survived two plane crashes and the Vietnam War.  He'll be grand.

;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 12, 2020, 08:37:22 AM
Trump's travel ban is optics. Expect USA to have one the highest infection rates pretty quickly. Some people will just buy anything as the right thing to do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 12, 2020, 08:52:44 AM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 12, 2020, 08:51:19 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 12, 2020, 01:21:35 AM
Trump banning all flights from EU, but UK exempted.
Leo will have to have a craic with him next week.

Ban applying to persons travelling from Schengen area zone as far as I can tell, so this excludes Ireland & the UK (as well as Croatia, Cyprus, Bulgaria & Romania as they are not presently part of the Schengen area, but does include Norway, Switzerland, Liechtenstein & Iceland) but doesn't apply to cargo or goods in spite of what he had first announced. US citizens and permenant residents currently within the Schengen area are also exempt from the hard entry ban, though good luck finding any airline that will be willing to fly with so few people back across the Atlantic.

IMO it's a nice bit of gaslighting by him - but this isn't really the thread to go on a major political rant on that.

Will we see an increase of people flying to Ireland to fly on to the US on that basis?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 12, 2020, 09:36:32 AM
The propose not to allow in people, other than US citizens, who have been in Schengen in the last 14 days so no connecting through Ireland, in general.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 12, 2020, 09:54:00 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 11, 2020, 11:57:19 PM
Ffs this is an all island issue. Why aren't Belfast and Dublin coordinating this together?


Dunno if that'd help or not... I feel a Dumb & Dumber remark coming on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bigarsedkeeper on March 12, 2020, 10:44:08 AM
Quote from: APM on March 11, 2020, 06:48:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 06:02:26 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 11, 2020, 04:45:56 PM
Meant to go to Disney Paris on Monday with the kids, booked it last summer. Disney aren't closing/won't close so can't claim any money back through travel agency. Checked with the travel insurance and you don't have a claim if you decide not to travel because you are worried about the situation as it is, you have to have it to claim! Travel agents are going on like there's nothing happening at all. It stinks. Even the kids are worried about going now. I agree we shouldn't be going but that's a big bill to swallow and no way to claim any of it back. All paid for too - anybody know anyway around it?

Feel your pain, as mentioned it's all about the money, hopefully folk stop booking in advance after this is all over and give the travel and entertainment the kick up the ass it needs. Imagine the money they have a year or so in advance of your trip.

Government is to blame here.  Insurances won't kick in until the Government bites the bullet (and not all insurances will kick-in even then). They are going to need to put in place a hardline approach eventually, and better to do so soon while it has a chance of being effective. 

Anyone with a bit of sense is way ahead of the government and in reality social distancing is already going on with many businesses cancelling meetings and events and individuals / families cancelling holidays and trips. Meanwhile, government is slavishly sticking to the same line and resultingly, so too are many business and people. 

Absolute madness.  Some nonsense from talking heads on TV about the risk of people rebelling against a lockdown and how strong measures now could be counter productive. Most people I know are ready for action now to avert the kind of disaster that is playing out in Italy.

Until government give the kind of leadership that is required, we are going to be sitting in limbo with some people being highly responsible and others being highly irresponsible and people like yourself stuck in a quandry between going on holiday and cancelling and the government advice letting the travel insurer off the hook. 

>:(
Being told today that even if the government come out and warn against travel to certain areas you still can't be refunded. They have to ban all travel to whatever country you are heading to. Travel companies make you feel like a dipstick when you try to talk to them - nothing to worry about! Even to rearrange the park/hotel package and lose the flights you have to pick dates now when you've no idea what's ahead of us and you lose your ATOL cover because it's no longer a package. Pricks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 10:53:41 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 12, 2020, 09:54:00 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 11, 2020, 11:57:19 PM
Ffs this is an all island issue. Why aren't Belfast and Dublin coordinating this together?


Dunno if that'd help or not... I feel a Dumb & Dumber remark coming on.

Unionists going on about we're waiting to see what Boris says. So if Boris says, don't close all schools in north, and the South does, it's hardly a coordinated effort to combat this. The north is not an island nor is there a wall at the border!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 10:56:42 AM
An Taoiseach is due to make an announcement on RTÉ 1 at 11am
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 12, 2020, 10:57:27 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 12, 2020, 10:44:08 AM
Quote from: APM on March 11, 2020, 06:48:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 06:02:26 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 11, 2020, 04:45:56 PM
Meant to go to Disney Paris on Monday with the kids, booked it last summer. Disney aren't closing/won't close so can't claim any money back through travel agency. Checked with the travel insurance and you don't have a claim if you decide not to travel because you are worried about the situation as it is, you have to have it to claim! Travel agents are going on like there's nothing happening at all. It stinks. Even the kids are worried about going now. I agree we shouldn't be going but that's a big bill to swallow and no way to claim any of it back. All paid for too - anybody know anyway around it?

Feel your pain, as mentioned it's all about the money, hopefully folk stop booking in advance after this is all over and give the travel and entertainment the kick up the ass it needs. Imagine the money they have a year or so in advance of your trip.

Government is to blame here.  Insurances won't kick in until the Government bites the bullet (and not all insurances will kick-in even then). They are going to need to put in place a hardline approach eventually, and better to do so soon while it has a chance of being effective. 

Anyone with a bit of sense is way ahead of the government and in reality social distancing is already going on with many businesses cancelling meetings and events and individuals / families cancelling holidays and trips. Meanwhile, government is slavishly sticking to the same line and resultingly, so too are many business and people. 

Absolute madness.  Some nonsense from talking heads on TV about the risk of people rebelling against a lockdown and how strong measures now could be counter productive. Most people I know are ready for action now to avert the kind of disaster that is playing out in Italy.

Until government give the kind of leadership that is required, we are going to be sitting in limbo with some people being highly responsible and others being highly irresponsible and people like yourself stuck in a quandry between going on holiday and cancelling and the government advice letting the travel insurer off the hook. 

>:(
Being told today that even if the government come out and warn against travel to certain areas you still can't be refunded. They have to ban all travel to whatever country you are heading to. Travel companies make you feel like a dipstick when you try to talk to them - nothing to worry about! Even to rearrange the park/hotel package and lose the flights you have to pick dates now when you've no idea what's ahead of us and you lose your ATOL cover because it's no longer a package. Pricks.

The principle of my child's school is in negotiation with the travel company after school ski trip on Saturday cancelled, bunch of greedy whores, hopefully this whole sorry episode changes the landscape for these companies, they have 50K from this school for a trip that can't happen and they are in negotiations about any possible refund!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 12, 2020, 10:58:25 AM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 10:56:42 AM
An Taoiseach is due to make an announcement on RTÉ 1 at 11am

Wife's school had meeting with heads at 11 also.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 11:01:40 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 12, 2020, 10:58:25 AM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 10:56:42 AM
An Taoiseach is due to make an announcement on RTÉ 1 at 11am

Wife's school had meeting with heads at 11 also.

BREAKING: Schools, colleges and public facilities are to close in Ireland to contain #CoronavirusPandemic; restrictions on public transport to be introduced; Taoiseach Leo Varadkar making major announcement on #covid2019ireland
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 12, 2020, 11:23:11 AM
Will this shut down the GAA??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on March 12, 2020, 11:25:01 AM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 11:01:40 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 12, 2020, 10:58:25 AM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 10:56:42 AM
An Taoiseach is due to make an announcement on RTÉ 1 at 11am

Wife's school had meeting with heads at 11 also.

BREAKING: Schools, colleges and public facilities are to close in Ireland to contain #CoronavirusPandemic; restrictions on public transport to be introduced; Taoiseach Leo Varadkar making major announcement on #covid2019ireland

How are you to care for your kids at home when you've to continue to work? Leave them with granny?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on March 12, 2020, 11:25:55 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 12, 2020, 11:23:11 AM
Will this shut down the GAA??

surely only a matter of time
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 12, 2020, 11:26:59 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 12, 2020, 10:57:27 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 12, 2020, 10:44:08 AM
Quote from: APM on March 11, 2020, 06:48:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 06:02:26 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 11, 2020, 04:45:56 PM
Meant to go to Disney Paris on Monday with the kids, booked it last summer. Disney aren't closing/won't close so can't claim any money back through travel agency. Checked with the travel insurance and you don't have a claim if you decide not to travel because you are worried about the situation as it is, you have to have it to claim! Travel agents are going on like there's nothing happening at all. It stinks. Even the kids are worried about going now. I agree we shouldn't be going but that's a big bill to swallow and no way to claim any of it back. All paid for too - anybody know anyway around it?

Feel your pain, as mentioned it's all about the money, hopefully folk stop booking in advance after this is all over and give the travel and entertainment the kick up the ass it needs. Imagine the money they have a year or so in advance of your trip.

Government is to blame here.  Insurances won't kick in until the Government bites the bullet (and not all insurances will kick-in even then). They are going to need to put in place a hardline approach eventually, and better to do so soon while it has a chance of being effective. 

Anyone with a bit of sense is way ahead of the government and in reality social distancing is already going on with many businesses cancelling meetings and events and individuals / families cancelling holidays and trips. Meanwhile, government is slavishly sticking to the same line and resultingly, so too are many business and people. 

Absolute madness.  Some nonsense from talking heads on TV about the risk of people rebelling against a lockdown and how strong measures now could be counter productive. Most people I know are ready for action now to avert the kind of disaster that is playing out in Italy.

Until government give the kind of leadership that is required, we are going to be sitting in limbo with some people being highly responsible and others being highly irresponsible and people like yourself stuck in a quandry between going on holiday and cancelling and the government advice letting the travel insurer off the hook. 

>:(
Being told today that even if the government come out and warn against travel to certain areas you still can't be refunded. They have to ban all travel to whatever country you are heading to. Travel companies make you feel like a dipstick when you try to talk to them - nothing to worry about! Even to rearrange the park/hotel package and lose the flights you have to pick dates now when you've no idea what's ahead of us and you lose your ATOL cover because it's no longer a package. Pricks.

The principle of my child's school is in negotiation with the travel company after school ski trip on Saturday cancelled, bunch of greedy whores, hopefully this whole sorry episode changes the landscape for these companies, they have 50K from this school for a trip that can't happen and they are in negotiations about any possible refund!

Your understanding of business and basic economics is truly shocking. That company will most likely have paid hotels, flights, transfers. They'll have wages to pay. What do you want them to do? Not pay wages? Put local people out of jobs? Please give me your solution?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on March 12, 2020, 11:27:06 AM
The fella who invented the hand sanitizer

Is fairly rubbing his hands now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on March 12, 2020, 11:31:48 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 12, 2020, 11:26:59 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 12, 2020, 10:57:27 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 12, 2020, 10:44:08 AM
Quote from: APM on March 11, 2020, 06:48:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 06:02:26 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 11, 2020, 04:45:56 PM
Meant to go to Disney Paris on Monday with the kids, booked it last summer. Disney aren't closing/won't close so can't claim any money back through travel agency. Checked with the travel insurance and you don't have a claim if you decide not to travel because you are worried about the situation as it is, you have to have it to claim! Travel agents are going on like there's nothing happening at all. It stinks. Even the kids are worried about going now. I agree we shouldn't be going but that's a big bill to swallow and no way to claim any of it back. All paid for too - anybody know anyway around it?

Feel your pain, as mentioned it's all about the money, hopefully folk stop booking in advance after this is all over and give the travel and entertainment the kick up the ass it needs. Imagine the money they have a year or so in advance of your trip.

Government is to blame here.  Insurances won't kick in until the Government bites the bullet (and not all insurances will kick-in even then). They are going to need to put in place a hardline approach eventually, and better to do so soon while it has a chance of being effective. 

Anyone with a bit of sense is way ahead of the government and in reality social distancing is already going on with many businesses cancelling meetings and events and individuals / families cancelling holidays and trips. Meanwhile, government is slavishly sticking to the same line and resultingly, so too are many business and people. 

Absolute madness.  Some nonsense from talking heads on TV about the risk of people rebelling against a lockdown and how strong measures now could be counter productive. Most people I know are ready for action now to avert the kind of disaster that is playing out in Italy.

Until government give the kind of leadership that is required, we are going to be sitting in limbo with some people being highly responsible and others being highly irresponsible and people like yourself stuck in a quandry between going on holiday and cancelling and the government advice letting the travel insurer off the hook. 

>:(
Being told today that even if the government come out and warn against travel to certain areas you still can't be refunded. They have to ban all travel to whatever country you are heading to. Travel companies make you feel like a dipstick when you try to talk to them - nothing to worry about! Even to rearrange the park/hotel package and lose the flights you have to pick dates now when you've no idea what's ahead of us and you lose your ATOL cover because it's no longer a package. Pricks.

The principle of my child's school is in negotiation with the travel company after school ski trip on Saturday cancelled, bunch of greedy whores, hopefully this whole sorry episode changes the landscape for these companies, they have 50K from this school for a trip that can't happen and they are in negotiations about any possible refund!

Your understanding of business and basic economics is truly shocking. That company will most likely have paid hotels, flights, transfers. They'll have wages to pay. What do you want them to do? Not pay wages? Put local people out of jobs? Please give me your solution?

This is Sein Fein economics, welcome to the Ireland of the future.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 12, 2020, 11:32:30 AM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 10:56:42 AM
An Taoiseach is due to make an announcement on RTÉ 1 at 11am

Where is your source for this? I am at work but have not heard or read anything on mainstream media.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 12, 2020, 11:34:05 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 12, 2020, 11:26:59 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 12, 2020, 10:57:27 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 12, 2020, 10:44:08 AM
Quote from: APM on March 11, 2020, 06:48:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 06:02:26 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 11, 2020, 04:45:56 PM
Meant to go to Disney Paris on Monday with the kids, booked it last summer. Disney aren't closing/won't close so can't claim any money back through travel agency. Checked with the travel insurance and you don't have a claim if you decide not to travel because you are worried about the situation as it is, you have to have it to claim! Travel agents are going on like there's nothing happening at all. It stinks. Even the kids are worried about going now. I agree we shouldn't be going but that's a big bill to swallow and no way to claim any of it back. All paid for too - anybody know anyway around it?

Feel your pain, as mentioned it's all about the money, hopefully folk stop booking in advance after this is all over and give the travel and entertainment the kick up the ass it needs. Imagine the money they have a year or so in advance of your trip.

Government is to blame here.  Insurances won't kick in until the Government bites the bullet (and not all insurances will kick-in even then). They are going to need to put in place a hardline approach eventually, and better to do so soon while it has a chance of being effective. 

Anyone with a bit of sense is way ahead of the government and in reality social distancing is already going on with many businesses cancelling meetings and events and individuals / families cancelling holidays and trips. Meanwhile, government is slavishly sticking to the same line and resultingly, so too are many business and people. 

Absolute madness.  Some nonsense from talking heads on TV about the risk of people rebelling against a lockdown and how strong measures now could be counter productive. Most people I know are ready for action now to avert the kind of disaster that is playing out in Italy.

Until government give the kind of leadership that is required, we are going to be sitting in limbo with some people being highly responsible and others being highly irresponsible and people like yourself stuck in a quandry between going on holiday and cancelling and the government advice letting the travel insurer off the hook. 

>:(
Being told today that even if the government come out and warn against travel to certain areas you still can't be refunded. They have to ban all travel to whatever country you are heading to. Travel companies make you feel like a dipstick when you try to talk to them - nothing to worry about! Even to rearrange the park/hotel package and lose the flights you have to pick dates now when you've no idea what's ahead of us and you lose your ATOL cover because it's no longer a package. Pricks.

The principle of my child's school is in negotiation with the travel company after school ski trip on Saturday cancelled, bunch of greedy whores, hopefully this whole sorry episode changes the landscape for these companies, they have 50K from this school for a trip that can't happen and they are in negotiations about any possible refund!

Your understanding of business and basic economics is truly shocking. That company will most likely have paid hotels, flights, transfers. They'll have wages to pay. What do you want them to do? Not pay wages? Put local people out of jobs? Please give me your solution?

So as soon as they got the 50,000 they paid for everything, is that your understanding, these kids parents paid in instalments so no way did they pay upfront.  I booked a holiday prior to Christmas, I was told the deposit was the flight costs and 100 quid for a 3.5K holiday, the rest is due by July for a holiday in August, so wind your neck in and stop trying to be the big business man, if you are running anything but your mouth, God help anyone in your charge.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 12, 2020, 11:34:40 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 12, 2020, 11:32:30 AM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 10:56:42 AM
An Taoiseach is due to make an announcement on RTÉ 1 at 11am

Where is your source for this? I am at work but have not heard or read anything on mainstream media.

Just announced on RTE by Leo.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 12, 2020, 11:36:02 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 12, 2020, 11:26:59 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 12, 2020, 10:57:27 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 12, 2020, 10:44:08 AM
Quote from: APM on March 11, 2020, 06:48:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 06:02:26 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 11, 2020, 04:45:56 PM
Meant to go to Disney Paris on Monday with the kids, booked it last summer. Disney aren't closing/won't close so can't claim any money back through travel agency. Checked with the travel insurance and you don't have a claim if you decide not to travel because you are worried about the situation as it is, you have to have it to claim! Travel agents are going on like there's nothing happening at all. It stinks. Even the kids are worried about going now. I agree we shouldn't be going but that's a big bill to swallow and no way to claim any of it back. All paid for too - anybody know anyway around it?

Feel your pain, as mentioned it's all about the money, hopefully folk stop booking in advance after this is all over and give the travel and entertainment the kick up the ass it needs. Imagine the money they have a year or so in advance of your trip.

Government is to blame here.  Insurances won't kick in until the Government bites the bullet (and not all insurances will kick-in even then). They are going to need to put in place a hardline approach eventually, and better to do so soon while it has a chance of being effective. 

Anyone with a bit of sense is way ahead of the government and in reality social distancing is already going on with many businesses cancelling meetings and events and individuals / families cancelling holidays and trips. Meanwhile, government is slavishly sticking to the same line and resultingly, so too are many business and people. 

Absolute madness.  Some nonsense from talking heads on TV about the risk of people rebelling against a lockdown and how strong measures now could be counter productive. Most people I know are ready for action now to avert the kind of disaster that is playing out in Italy.

Until government give the kind of leadership that is required, we are going to be sitting in limbo with some people being highly responsible and others being highly irresponsible and people like yourself stuck in a quandry between going on holiday and cancelling and the government advice letting the travel insurer off the hook. 

>:(
Being told today that even if the government come out and warn against travel to certain areas you still can't be refunded. They have to ban all travel to whatever country you are heading to. Travel companies make you feel like a dipstick when you try to talk to them - nothing to worry about! Even to rearrange the park/hotel package and lose the flights you have to pick dates now when you've no idea what's ahead of us and you lose your ATOL cover because it's no longer a package. Pricks.

The principle of my child's school is in negotiation with the travel company after school ski trip on Saturday cancelled, bunch of greedy whores, hopefully this whole sorry episode changes the landscape for these companies, they have 50K from this school for a trip that can't happen and they are in negotiations about any possible refund!

Your understanding of business and basic economics is truly shocking. That company will most likely have paid hotels, flights, transfers. They'll have wages to pay. What do you want them to do? Not pay wages? Put local people out of jobs? Please give me your solution?

We paid for insurance, has the travel company no insurance?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 12, 2020, 11:40:50 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 12, 2020, 11:34:40 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 12, 2020, 11:32:30 AM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 10:56:42 AM
An Taoiseach is due to make an announcement on RTÉ 1 at 11am

Where is your source for this? I am at work but have not heard or read anything on mainstream media.

Just announced on RTE by Leo.

Ffs about time. That would have an effect on GAA
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 12, 2020, 11:42:11 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 12, 2020, 11:36:02 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 12, 2020, 11:26:59 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 12, 2020, 10:57:27 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 12, 2020, 10:44:08 AM
Quote from: APM on March 11, 2020, 06:48:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 06:02:26 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 11, 2020, 04:45:56 PM
Meant to go to Disney Paris on Monday with the kids, booked it last summer. Disney aren't closing/won't close so can't claim any money back through travel agency. Checked with the travel insurance and you don't have a claim if you decide not to travel because you are worried about the situation as it is, you have to have it to claim! Travel agents are going on like there's nothing happening at all. It stinks. Even the kids are worried about going now. I agree we shouldn't be going but that's a big bill to swallow and no way to claim any of it back. All paid for too - anybody know anyway around it?

Feel your pain, as mentioned it's all about the money, hopefully folk stop booking in advance after this is all over and give the travel and entertainment the kick up the ass it needs. Imagine the money they have a year or so in advance of your trip.

Government is to blame here.  Insurances won't kick in until the Government bites the bullet (and not all insurances will kick-in even then). They are going to need to put in place a hardline approach eventually, and better to do so soon while it has a chance of being effective. 

Anyone with a bit of sense is way ahead of the government and in reality social distancing is already going on with many businesses cancelling meetings and events and individuals / families cancelling holidays and trips. Meanwhile, government is slavishly sticking to the same line and resultingly, so too are many business and people. 

Absolute madness.  Some nonsense from talking heads on TV about the risk of people rebelling against a lockdown and how strong measures now could be counter productive. Most people I know are ready for action now to avert the kind of disaster that is playing out in Italy.

Until government give the kind of leadership that is required, we are going to be sitting in limbo with some people being highly responsible and others being highly irresponsible and people like yourself stuck in a quandry between going on holiday and cancelling and the government advice letting the travel insurer off the hook. 

>:(
Being told today that even if the government come out and warn against travel to certain areas you still can't be refunded. They have to ban all travel to whatever country you are heading to. Travel companies make you feel like a dipstick when you try to talk to them - nothing to worry about! Even to rearrange the park/hotel package and lose the flights you have to pick dates now when you've no idea what's ahead of us and you lose your ATOL cover because it's no longer a package. Pricks.

The principle of my child's school is in negotiation with the travel company after school ski trip on Saturday cancelled, bunch of greedy whores, hopefully this whole sorry episode changes the landscape for these companies, they have 50K from this school for a trip that can't happen and they are in negotiations about any possible refund!

Your understanding of business and basic economics is truly shocking. That company will most likely have paid hotels, flights, transfers. They'll have wages to pay. What do you want them to do? Not pay wages? Put local people out of jobs? Please give me your solution?

We paid for insurance, has the travel company no insurance?

By the way when you book a hotel do you pay the full amount before you arrive?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 12, 2020, 11:43:25 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 12, 2020, 11:40:50 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 12, 2020, 11:34:40 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 12, 2020, 11:32:30 AM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 10:56:42 AM
An Taoiseach is due to make an announcement on RTÉ 1 at 11am

Where is your source for this? I am at work but have not heard or read anything on mainstream media.

Just announced on RTE by Leo.

Ffs about time. That would have an effect on GAA

Gatherings over 500 cancelled outdoors so yes!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 11:49:41 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 12, 2020, 11:43:25 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 12, 2020, 11:40:50 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 12, 2020, 11:34:40 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 12, 2020, 11:32:30 AM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 10:56:42 AM
An Taoiseach is due to make an announcement on RTÉ 1 at 11am

Where is your source for this? I am at work but have not heard or read anything on mainstream media.

Just announced on RTE by Leo.

Ffs about time. That would have an effect on GAA

Gatherings over 500 cancelled outdoors so yes!

Does this apply to the north? Could games in the wee six still go ahead? Surely not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 11:51:46 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 11:49:41 AM
Does this apply to the north? Could games in the wee six still go ahead? Surely not.

Won't apply to Antrim or Derry, they never get crowds that big.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 12, 2020, 11:52:22 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 12, 2020, 11:26:59 AM
Your understanding of business and basic economics is truly shocking. That company will most likely have paid hotels, flights, transfers. They'll have wages to pay. What do you want them to do? Not pay wages? Put local people out of jobs? Please give me your solution?

Whats your conglomerate's invoice period there trailer?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on March 12, 2020, 11:57:20 AM
All Sporting events to stop until March 29th at the minimum.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on March 12, 2020, 11:58:54 AM
Quote from: Rudi on March 12, 2020, 11:27:06 AM
The fella who invented the hand sanitizer

Is fairly rubbing his hands now.

I enjoyed it  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 12, 2020, 12:03:43 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 11:49:41 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 12, 2020, 11:43:25 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 12, 2020, 11:40:50 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 12, 2020, 11:34:40 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 12, 2020, 11:32:30 AM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 10:56:42 AM
An Taoiseach is due to make an announcement on RTÉ 1 at 11am

Where is your source for this? I am at work but have not heard or read anything on mainstream media.

Just announced on RTE by Leo.

Ffs about time. That would have an effect on GAA

Gatherings over 500 cancelled outdoors so yes!

Does this apply to the north? Could games in the wee six still go ahead? Surely not.

the wording atm is 'should be cancelled'
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 12, 2020, 12:05:28 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 11:51:46 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 11:49:41 AM
Does this apply to the north? Could games in the wee six still go ahead? Surely not.

Won't apply to Antrim or Derry, they never get crowds that big.

;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 12:07:07 PM
Real Madrid in quarantine. La Liga postponed for 2 weeks. CL surely to be cancelled now.

PL will follow I'd say.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 12:10:47 PM
UEFA are reviewing whether to suspend the Champions League and Europa League due to the coronavirus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 12:16:29 PM
Steve Martin and Big Marty Short cancelling Belfast show.

They'll hardly get to Crossmaglen either now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 12, 2020, 12:17:23 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 12:07:07 PM
Real Madrid in quarantine. La Liga postponed for 2 weeks. CL surely to be cancelled now.

PL will follow I'd say.

Does Liverpool keep Cup for another year.  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on March 12, 2020, 12:19:58 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 12:07:07 PM
Real Madrid in quarantine. La Liga postponed for 2 weeks. CL surely to be cancelled now.

PL will follow I'd say.
Postponed rather than cancelled surely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 12, 2020, 12:29:13 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 12, 2020, 12:17:23 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 12:07:07 PM
Real Madrid in quarantine. La Liga postponed for 2 weeks. CL surely to be cancelled now.

PL will follow I'd say.

Does Liverpool keep Cup for another year.  ;D

Yep, but Man City keep the league  ;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on March 12, 2020, 12:31:06 PM
Schools closed until the 29th March.
Gonna be fun trying to arrange work around this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 12, 2020, 12:34:46 PM
It is a joke that there are now two different approaches to this on the island. What happens National League games this weekend. Leo's announcement would mean these are off in the South or played behind closed doors but yet Derry v Longford (nothing against Longford - just the example I'm using) would mean people from the South can travel to a game in the North and congregate in a crowd? Doesn't make sense. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 12:38:33 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 12, 2020, 12:34:46 PM
It is a joke that there are now two different approaches to this on the island. What happens National League games this weekend. Leo's announcement would mean these are off in the South or played behind closed doors but yet Derry v Longford (nothing against Longford - just the example I'm using) would mean people from the South can travel to a game in the North and congregate in a crowd? Doesn't make sense.

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson's official spokesman was asked whether Northern Ireland would now be treated differently from the rest of the UK in response to measures announced by the Irish Government.

"We have been in regular dialogue with Irish counterparts," the spokesman said.

"In terms of our own response, we have said that we want it to be a UK-wide response and we have been working with the four chief medical officers and devolved administrations."

Asked about the difference in the approach in Dublin, the spokesman added: "We follow our own advice, they will do the same."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 12, 2020, 12:43:07 PM
Something like this should be deal with on an island wide basis, the virus won't stop at the border. We should all be looking to Dublin for leadership and direction, not London.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on March 12, 2020, 12:50:25 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 12, 2020, 12:34:46 PM
It is a joke that there are now two different approaches to this on the island. What happens National League games this weekend. Leo's announcement would mean these are off in the South or played behind closed doors but yet Derry v Longford (nothing against Longford - just the example I'm using) would mean people from the South can travel to a game in the North and congregate in a crowd? Doesn't make sense.

You'd expect that the GAA will cancel all games North and South
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PMG1 on March 12, 2020, 12:51:12 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 11:51:46 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 11:49:41 AM
Does this apply to the north? Could games in the wee six still go ahead? Surely not.

Won't apply to Antrim or Derry, they never get crowds that big.
Dublin can't play unless the cut down their back room team
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 12, 2020, 12:54:31 PM
Quote from: PMG1 on March 12, 2020, 12:51:12 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 11:51:46 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 11:49:41 AM
Does this apply to the north? Could games in the wee six still go ahead? Surely not.

Won't apply to Antrim or Derry, they never get crowds that big.
Dublin can't play unless the cut down their back room team

teeheeheehee


The DCB realise this:

https://www.rte.ie/sport/other-sport/2020/0312/1121787-latest-sports-coronavirus-updates/

Quote12:42

The Dublin County board has cancelled all games and training under their auspices.

At statement released this afternoon reads: "Dublin GAA Board, having considered the statement issued by An Taoiseach Leo Varadkar this morning in relation to the Covid-19 pandemic, have decided to cancel all club games and training sessions under our auspices until after 29th March.

"Clubs are advised to reduce social interactions as much as possible.

"We will continue to monitor the situation, taking advice from the Government, HSE and GAA Central Council. Dublin GAA will provide updates accordingly."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 12, 2020, 01:04:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 12:38:33 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 12, 2020, 12:34:46 PM
It is a joke that there are now two different approaches to this on the island. What happens National League games this weekend. Leo's announcement would mean these are off in the South or played behind closed doors but yet Derry v Longford (nothing against Longford - just the example I'm using) would mean people from the South can travel to a game in the North and congregate in a crowd? Doesn't make sense.

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson's official spokesman was asked whether Northern Ireland would now be treated differently from the rest of the UK in response to measures announced by the Irish Government.

"We have been in regular dialogue with Irish counterparts," the spokesman said.

"In terms of our own response, we have said that we want it to be a UK-wide response and we have been working with the four chief medical officers and devolved administrations."

Asked about the difference in the approach in Dublin, the spokesman added: "We follow our own advice, they will do the same."

What a load of shite!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 12, 2020, 01:08:33 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 12, 2020, 01:04:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 12:38:33 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 12, 2020, 12:34:46 PM
It is a joke that there are now two different approaches to this on the island. What happens National League games this weekend. Leo's announcement would mean these are off in the South or played behind closed doors but yet Derry v Longford (nothing against Longford - just the example I'm using) would mean people from the South can travel to a game in the North and congregate in a crowd? Doesn't make sense.

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson's official spokesman was asked whether Northern Ireland would now be treated differently from the rest of the UK in response to measures announced by the Irish Government.

"We have been in regular dialogue with Irish counterparts," the spokesman said.

"In terms of our own response, we have said that we want it to be a UK-wide response and we have been working with the four chief medical officers and devolved administrations."

Asked about the difference in the approach in Dublin, the spokesman added: "We follow our own advice, they will do the same."

What a load of shite!

Mental... you have to have the same approach for an island it's crazy!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 01:37:56 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 12, 2020, 01:04:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 12:38:33 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 12, 2020, 12:34:46 PM
It is a joke that there are now two different approaches to this on the island. What happens National League games this weekend. Leo's announcement would mean these are off in the South or played behind closed doors but yet Derry v Longford (nothing against Longford - just the example I'm using) would mean people from the South can travel to a game in the North and congregate in a crowd? Doesn't make sense.

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson's official spokesman was asked whether Northern Ireland would now be treated differently from the rest of the UK in response to measures announced by the Irish Government.

"We have been in regular dialogue with Irish counterparts," the spokesman said.

"In terms of our own response, we have said that we want it to be a UK-wide response and we have been working with the four chief medical officers and devolved administrations."

Asked about the difference in the approach in Dublin, the spokesman added: "We follow our own advice, they will do the same."

What a load of shite!

It sure is.

This isn't a time for 'we are british' mentality, or we will look to the mothership for advice. We are on a f**king island!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 12, 2020, 01:49:19 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 11:51:46 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 11:49:41 AM
Does this apply to the north? Could games in the wee six still go ahead? Surely not.

Won't apply to Antrim or Derry, they never get crowds that big.

Down are playing a final this weekend, not that that would raise an eyebrow with you ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bigarsedkeeper on March 12, 2020, 01:49:28 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 12, 2020, 10:57:27 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 12, 2020, 10:44:08 AM
Quote from: APM on March 11, 2020, 06:48:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 06:02:26 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 11, 2020, 04:45:56 PM
Meant to go to Disney Paris on Monday with the kids, booked it last summer. Disney aren't closing/won't close so can't claim any money back through travel agency. Checked with the travel insurance and you don't have a claim if you decide not to travel because you are worried about the situation as it is, you have to have it to claim! Travel agents are going on like there's nothing happening at all. It stinks. Even the kids are worried about going now. I agree we shouldn't be going but that's a big bill to swallow and no way to claim any of it back. All paid for too - anybody know anyway around it?

Feel your pain, as mentioned it's all about the money, hopefully folk stop booking in advance after this is all over and give the travel and entertainment the kick up the ass it needs. Imagine the money they have a year or so in advance of your trip.

Government is to blame here.  Insurances won't kick in until the Government bites the bullet (and not all insurances will kick-in even then). They are going to need to put in place a hardline approach eventually, and better to do so soon while it has a chance of being effective. 

Anyone with a bit of sense is way ahead of the government and in reality social distancing is already going on with many businesses cancelling meetings and events and individuals / families cancelling holidays and trips. Meanwhile, government is slavishly sticking to the same line and resultingly, so too are many business and people. 

Absolute madness.  Some nonsense from talking heads on TV about the risk of people rebelling against a lockdown and how strong measures now could be counter productive. Most people I know are ready for action now to avert the kind of disaster that is playing out in Italy.

Until government give the kind of leadership that is required, we are going to be sitting in limbo with some people being highly responsible and others being highly irresponsible and people like yourself stuck in a quandry between going on holiday and cancelling and the government advice letting the travel insurer off the hook. 

>:(
Being told today that even if the government come out and warn against travel to certain areas you still can't be refunded. They have to ban all travel to whatever country you are heading to. Travel companies make you feel like a dipstick when you try to talk to them - nothing to worry about! Even to rearrange the park/hotel package and lose the flights you have to pick dates now when you've no idea what's ahead of us and you lose your ATOL cover because it's no longer a package. Pricks.

The principle of my child's school is in negotiation with the travel company after school ski trip on Saturday cancelled, bunch of greedy whores, hopefully this whole sorry episode changes the landscape for these companies, they have 50K from this school for a trip that can't happen and they are in negotiations about any possible refund!
Update on this. The bastards have said it going to cost 1.5 times to twice the price if we go in October/November time. You can't say someone isn't taking the piss there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bigarsedkeeper on March 12, 2020, 01:58:27 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 12, 2020, 01:57:23 PM
'Twas just thinking over lunchtime that if millions of people at a time across the world end up having to "self isolate", will Pr0nhub be able to cope with the inevitable surge of visitors & traffic? ;)
Or the maternity wards in 9 months time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on March 12, 2020, 02:02:26 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-51836206

The f**kers know we're vulnerable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 12, 2020, 02:17:39 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 12, 2020, 02:02:26 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-51836206

The f**kers know we're vulnerable.

Never liked Winnie the Pooh.

This shows I was right. No better than a f**king (Thunder)cat.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 02:18:15 PM
3 Leicester players in isolation.

Expect to see PL games called off.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Art Mc Crory’s Sofa on March 12, 2020, 02:24:47 PM
The thing is if you order a holiday then the travel agents still have to pay their staff, the airline still has to pay theirs, the hotel still have to pay theirs. All have over heads as well. It's difficult for anyone to accept the whole financial burden be it customer, business or insurer.

You have to have a bit of sympathy for all involved. Likewise calls for the government to carry the burden aren't so simple either. Don't forget us taxpayers are the fund behind the government. Are we all content to have our taxes used to bailout people's holidays? We would rather spend it on that ahead of hospitals/roads/schools/social welfare?

I'm not saying the government should or shouldn't get involved here but obviously in the face of what is going to be the cause of the next global recession they can't just simply start signing blank checks as they did with the bank bailouts.

This is going to be harder to negotiate economically than it will be to handle in terms of public health.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: charlieTully on March 12, 2020, 02:27:48 PM
All gaa activity north and south off till March 29th
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on March 12, 2020, 02:42:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 02:18:15 PM
3 Leicester players in isolation.

Expect to see PL games called off.

Be better to just call this season as a blank and start again next season...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 12, 2020, 02:45:13 PM
A very Irish catholic thing to say but what about mass??

In most places surely that's an indoor gathering of more than 100?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 12, 2020, 02:48:22 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 12, 2020, 02:45:13 PM
A very Irish catholic thing to say but what about mass??

In most places surely that's an indoor gathering of more than 100?

I would expect an announcement about same shortly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 12, 2020, 02:55:26 PM
Any idiot that booked a holiday since approx mid Feb deserves to lose it.

Anyone before that has had shit luck.

Of course, there is another side to it - hotel staff & airlines most obviously, but also beyond that, taxis, restaurants, activities etc etc.

How you strike a balance there is difficult. The hosting country's govt will have to support their tourist industry, the tourist's insurance will have to support that and the airline, and probably the tourist themselves is going to have to take a bit of a haircut unfortunately.

Govts should probably mandate a split of who takes what proportion of the hit. Otherwise its open season for the insurers to pocket the money and pay out f**k all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 12, 2020, 02:58:44 PM
There was an announcement yesterday .

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-priests-advised-not-to-touch-babies-at-baptism-confirmations-may-be-postponed-1.4200101
Coronavirus: Priests advised not to touch babies at baptism; confirmations may be postponed
Priests advised to use cotton bud or glove to anoint people who are dying
about 20 hours ago
Ronan McGreevy

Priests will not touch a baby on the forehead when they are being baptised under new guidelines issued by the Irish Catholic bishops to combat the spread of coronavirus. File photograph: iStock

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Priests will no longer anoint the foreheads of people who are dying with their thumb. Instead, holy oil will be administered with a cotton bud or glove which will then be disposed of appropriately.
Similarly, priests will not touch a baby on the forehead when they are being baptised.
These, along with a ban on the sign of peace and on the passing around of collection baskets in church are among the measures announced by the Irish Catholic bishops on Wednesday to combat the spread of coronavirus or Covid-19.
The bishops have warned that many confirmation ceremonies may have to be postponed because of the spread of the virus pending future advice from the public health authorities.
"The celebration of the sacrament of confirmation will continue for now but may have to be postponed at very short notice in the light of future advice from the public health authorities".
They also asked that people with underlying health conditions and who are considered vulnerable from a health perspective, should not attend confirmation ceremonies.
Communion will only be received into the hand and not on the tongue. Holy water fonts will remain empty at this time.
Mass-goers have been asked to keep a safe distance from one another. Elderly people with underlying medical conditions have been advised to stay away from funerals. Sympathisers have been told not to shake hands with the bereaved.
Hand sanitisers will be at the entrances to all churches and priests will sanitise their hands before and after distributing communion.
Priests are being asked to provide an alternative to the practice of passing collection baskets through the congregation. "The faithful are asked to continue their generous contributions to the upkeep of their parish," the bishops added.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 03:02:03 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 12, 2020, 02:45:13 PM
A very Irish catholic thing to say but what about mass??

In most places surely that's an indoor gathering of more than 100?

I'd say your season ticket will be automatically stamped, so you won't lose any points needed to get into heaven.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 03:05:15 PM
People flocking to supermarkets in their hundreds.

Hardly a good idea considering the advice given  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 12, 2020, 03:12:29 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 12, 2020, 11:42:11 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 12, 2020, 11:36:02 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 12, 2020, 11:26:59 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 12, 2020, 10:57:27 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 12, 2020, 10:44:08 AM
Quote from: APM on March 11, 2020, 06:48:34 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 11, 2020, 06:02:26 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on March 11, 2020, 04:45:56 PM
Meant to go to Disney Paris on Monday with the kids, booked it last summer. Disney aren't closing/won't close so can't claim any money back through travel agency. Checked with the travel insurance and you don't have a claim if you decide not to travel because you are worried about the situation as it is, you have to have it to claim! Travel agents are going on like there's nothing happening at all. It stinks. Even the kids are worried about going now. I agree we shouldn't be going but that's a big bill to swallow and no way to claim any of it back. All paid for too - anybody know anyway around it?

Feel your pain, as mentioned it's all about the money, hopefully folk stop booking in advance after this is all over and give the travel and entertainment the kick up the ass it needs. Imagine the money they have a year or so in advance of your trip.

Government is to blame here.  Insurances won't kick in until the Government bites the bullet (and not all insurances will kick-in even then). They are going to need to put in place a hardline approach eventually, and better to do so soon while it has a chance of being effective. 

Anyone with a bit of sense is way ahead of the government and in reality social distancing is already going on with many businesses cancelling meetings and events and individuals / families cancelling holidays and trips. Meanwhile, government is slavishly sticking to the same line and resultingly, so too are many business and people. 

Absolute madness.  Some nonsense from talking heads on TV about the risk of people rebelling against a lockdown and how strong measures now could be counter productive. Most people I know are ready for action now to avert the kind of disaster that is playing out in Italy.

Until government give the kind of leadership that is required, we are going to be sitting in limbo with some people being highly responsible and others being highly irresponsible and people like yourself stuck in a quandry between going on holiday and cancelling and the government advice letting the travel insurer off the hook. 

>:(
Being told today that even if the government come out and warn against travel to certain areas you still can't be refunded. They have to ban all travel to whatever country you are heading to. Travel companies make you feel like a dipstick when you try to talk to them - nothing to worry about! Even to rearrange the park/hotel package and lose the flights you have to pick dates now when you've no idea what's ahead of us and you lose your ATOL cover because it's no longer a package. Pricks.

The principle of my child's school is in negotiation with the travel company after school ski trip on Saturday cancelled, bunch of greedy whores, hopefully this whole sorry episode changes the landscape for these companies, they have 50K from this school for a trip that can't happen and they are in negotiations about any possible refund!

Your understanding of business and basic economics is truly shocking. That company will most likely have paid hotels, flights, transfers. They'll have wages to pay. What do you want them to do? Not pay wages? Put local people out of jobs? Please give me your solution?

We paid for insurance, has the travel company no insurance?

By the way when you book a hotel do you pay the full amount before you arrive?

f**k me you're full of shite.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Boycey on March 12, 2020, 03:17:38 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 03:05:15 PM
People flocking to supermarkets in their hundreds.

Hardly a good idea considering the advice given  ::)

I was down the town it's absolutely mental here, apparently the guards were called to Lidl earlier. I met the local milk agent and he said it was way worse than the time of the snow. No milk or bread to be got
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 12, 2020, 03:25:12 PM
Quote from: Boycey on March 12, 2020, 03:17:38 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 03:05:15 PM
People flocking to supermarkets in their hundreds.

Hardly a good idea considering the advice given  ::)

I was down the town it's absolutely mental here, apparently the guards were called to Lidl earlier. I met the local milk agent and he said it was way worse than the time of the snow. No milk or bread to be got

Why are people reacting like this. It's irrational.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 12, 2020, 03:29:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 12, 2020, 03:25:12 PM
Quote from: Boycey on March 12, 2020, 03:17:38 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 03:05:15 PM
People flocking to supermarkets in their hundreds.

Hardly a good idea considering the advice given  ::)

I was down the town it's absolutely mental here, apparently the guards were called to Lidl earlier. I met the local milk agent and he said it was way worse than the time of the snow. No milk or bread to be got

Why are people reacting like this. It's irrational.

I'm guessing people are trying to get as much into the house as possible to minimise the amount of times they will have to back out to the shops again if things get bad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 12, 2020, 03:32:43 PM
Coronavirus: Ireland's play-off in Slovakia likely to be postponed

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/coronavirus-ireland-s-play-off-in-slovakia-likely-to-be-postponed-1.4201108
Only residents admitted into Slovakia as government declare a state of emergency
about an hour ago Updated: 13 minutes ago
Emmet Malone
0
The Euro 2020 play-off game between Slovakia and the Republic of Ireland scheduled for March 26th now looks all but certain to be postponed. Photograph: Sam Bagnall/Getty
The Euro 2020 play-off game between Slovakia and the Republic of Ireland scheduled for March 26th now looks all but certain to be postponed. Photograph: Sam Bagnall/Getty


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The Euro 2020 play-off game between Slovakia and the Republic of Ireland, scheduled for March 26th, is almost certain to be postponed after the association there requested a postponement of the fixture from Uefa. Europe's football federation says that it will discuss its response to the current crisis with all of its members in the early part of next week.

In a statement, posted on its website on Thursday afternoon, the Slovak FA (SFZ) said that: "As the situation surrounding the spread of coronavirus and the number of infections with this virus is increasing in Slovakia and also in neighboring European countries, the SFZ decided . . . to send a letter to UEFA.

"In this official document, SFZ asks for the postponement of the ME 2020 Slovakia - Ireland qualifying match to be scheduled for Thursday, March 26, 2020 at the National Football Stadium, to another time.

"As the main organiser of this event, the SFZ takes full responsibility for all decisions related to this match and does not want to risk the health of all concerned."

Uefa has yet to respond to this request, or to a similar one from the Bosnia-Herzegovina association in relation to their play-off game against Northern Ireland, but it seems pretty much unthinkable that the game could now proceed in the current circumstances. The SFZ announcement comes afterthe country's Prime Minister, Peter Pellegrini, said that security on the country's borders is to be tightened and that travel by train and bus from abroad halted.

He also announced that more stringent border checks are to be introduced. Slovakia had already been testing some of those who arrived at its airports for coronavirus but Pellegrini has now said that only those who actually live in the country will be allowed in with everyone who is subject to 14 days of quarantine.


   
Shopping malls are to be closed at weekends with only shops selling food and pharmacies permitted to remain open.

The measures are a stepping up of already widespread restrictions aimed at containing the spread of the virus in Slovakia where 10 cases have been confirmed to date. On Wednesday, the government approved a proposal to supplement police services in towns and cities with members of the armed forces so as to maintain public order if required.

At the time of writing, it was not clear how long the new restrictions are intended to be in place for but given the spread of the virus and the timeframe outlined elsewhere, including Ireland, it does seem unlikely that anything approaching normality will have returned by the 26th, when the game is supposed to be played.

It had already been announced on Tuesday that it would take place behind closed doors if it went ahead at all and there were already major issues for the hosts in relation to the availability of players based in other countries, most obviously Italy, where around half a dozen of the their regular squad members play their club football.

Those concerns, however, seem to have been overtaken by events and amid reports that a suspension of this season's Champions league and Europa League may be imminent, by the time of the video conference with member associations planned by Uefa for next Tuesday, the focus may well be firmly on whether Euro 2020 itself goes ahead as planned.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 12, 2020, 03:45:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 12, 2020, 03:25:12 PM
Quote from: Boycey on March 12, 2020, 03:17:38 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 03:05:15 PM
People flocking to supermarkets in their hundreds.

Hardly a good idea considering the advice given  ::)

I was down the town it's absolutely mental here, apparently the guards were called to Lidl earlier. I met the local milk agent and he said it was way worse than the time of the snow. No milk or bread to be got

Why are people reacting like this. It's irrational.
As an oul timer round here once said about another matter  "it's because they can't put it into their oul computers and get the answer".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on March 12, 2020, 03:55:24 PM
Euro 20 to be postponed until summer of 21.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 03:57:08 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on March 12, 2020, 03:55:24 PM
Euro 20 to be postponed until summer of 21.

Does that mean Mick could be in charge for an extra year?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on March 12, 2020, 04:01:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 12, 2020, 03:45:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 12, 2020, 03:25:12 PM
Quote from: Boycey on March 12, 2020, 03:17:38 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 03:05:15 PM
People flocking to supermarkets in their hundreds.

Hardly a good idea considering the advice given  ::)

I was down the town it's absolutely mental here, apparently the guards were called to Lidl earlier. I met the local milk agent and he said it was way worse than the time of the snow. No milk or bread to be got

Why are people reacting like this. It's irrational.
As an oul timer round here once said about another matter  "it's because they can't put it into their oul computers and get the answer".

Thats true
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on March 12, 2020, 04:11:20 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 03:05:15 PM
People flocking to supermarkets in their hundreds.

Hardly a good idea considering the advice given  ::)
What is the obsession with people buying bog roll?
Plenty of dock leaves around which will do the job if we do run out of toilet roll, or just stick a shower hose onto your arse if need be.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 12, 2020, 04:30:03 PM
Is Mass cancelled yet?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sensethetone on March 12, 2020, 04:31:14 PM
Quote from: laoislad on March 12, 2020, 04:11:20 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 03:05:15 PM
People flocking to supermarkets in their hundreds.

Hardly a good idea considering the advice given  ::)
What is the obsession with people buying bog roll?
Plenty of dock leaves around which will do the job if we do run out of toilet roll, or just stick a shower hose onto your arse if need be.
Do dock leaves come out this early?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 12, 2020, 05:15:26 PM
So basically Boris has said people are going to lose loved ones before their time in a speech
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 05:37:22 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 12, 2020, 05:15:26 PM
So basically Boris has said people are going to lose loved ones before their time in a speech

But they aren't closing the schools, absolute madness, but no more than you would expect from Boris.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 12, 2020, 05:45:53 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 05:37:22 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 12, 2020, 05:15:26 PM
So basically Boris has said people are going to lose loved ones before their time in a speech

But they aren't closing the schools, absolute madness, but no more than you would expect from Boris.

He isn't deciding himself, they have just set it out clearly why they aren't but the internet experts know better
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 12, 2020, 05:50:01 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 12, 2020, 05:45:53 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 05:37:22 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 12, 2020, 05:15:26 PM
So basically Boris has said people are going to lose loved ones before their time in a speech

But they aren't closing the schools, absolute madness, but no more than you would expect from Boris.

He isn't deciding himself, they have just set it out clearly why they aren't but the internet experts know better

Why are the experts in the UK any different to the experts in Italy, Spain, Denmark, Ireland or China?

Experts have said the UK is on the same trajectory as Italy.

Just because experts are the it doesn't mean he has to take their advice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on March 12, 2020, 05:52:36 PM
It said on skynews, it will be 12 to 14 weeks before it hits peak in the UK.
They are very lax.. Cheltenham going ahead as normal. Atletico fans let travel over to Anfieid, with Madrid in crisis
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 12, 2020, 05:55:20 PM
This bollix may reflect on his attitude
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0312/1121915-hoax-covid-19-aer-lingus/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 12, 2020, 05:57:13 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 12, 2020, 05:50:01 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 12, 2020, 05:45:53 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 05:37:22 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 12, 2020, 05:15:26 PM
So basically Boris has said people are going to lose loved ones before their time in a speech

But they aren't closing the schools, absolute madness, but no more than you would expect from Boris.

He isn't deciding himself, they have just set it out clearly why they aren't but the internet experts know better

Why are the experts in the UK any different to the experts in Italy, Spain, Denmark, Ireland or China?

Experts have said the UK is on the same trajectory as Italy.

Just because experts are the it doesn't mean he has to take their advice.

I would assume each country is doing their own modelling of when they think it will peak
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 12, 2020, 06:03:48 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 12, 2020, 05:57:13 PM
I would assume each country is doing their own modelling of when they think it will peak

We don't need to model what will happen if you don't get drastic quick.

Just look at Lombardy.



[and as someone with a background in modelling, with so little known about COVID-19, no model, unless by astronomical fluke, is going to be anything like close to the mark.]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 12, 2020, 06:04:00 PM
Has Boris banned school trips? And by saying that will travel companies pay back what's owed?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 12, 2020, 06:05:50 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 12, 2020, 05:57:13 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 12, 2020, 05:50:01 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 12, 2020, 05:45:53 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 12, 2020, 05:37:22 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 12, 2020, 05:15:26 PM
So basically Boris has said people are going to lose loved ones before their time in a speech

But they aren't closing the schools, absolute madness, but no more than you would expect from Boris.

He isn't deciding himself, they have just set it out clearly why they aren't but the internet experts know better

Why are the experts in the UK any different to the experts in Italy, Spain, Denmark, Ireland or China?

Experts have said the UK is on the same trajectory as Italy.

Just because experts are the it doesn't mean he has to take their advice.

I would assume each country is doing their own modelling of when they think it will peak

It's being modelled by various countries with many models pointing towards an Italy scenario.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2020, 06:10:54 PM
Sinn féin. Ffs. Jokers. Booting it into free state govt all week but Michelle now acts totally different up north
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 12, 2020, 06:26:01 PM
The ROI's Government's actions are all going to be pretty pointless without similar action in NI. Seemed like a get your  ducks-in-a-row sorta situation :-[
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 12, 2020, 06:54:45 PM
I for one am very disappointed that the UK government hasn't consulted the many, many experts in this thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 12, 2020, 06:57:59 PM
70 cases in the ROI now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 12, 2020, 07:04:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2020, 08:30:14 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 11, 2020, 08:16:52 PM
NYC Paddy's Parade is OFF

Yeah I heard that, I'm for MSG to watch Conlon, probably be off too

No fans will be allowed to be in attendance for the fight

https://www.newsday.com/sports/boxing/top-rank-shakur-stevenson-michael-conlan-coronavirus-1.42949662
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 07:06:45 PM
It must be freaky Friday. Even Seamy Bryson is talking sense...

We share an open land border with a neighbouring jurisdiction. Regardless of the rights or wrongs of that open border, it is a reality. We face a health crisis that could result in deaths of many people. It is sensible to co-ordinate the approach between both jurisdictions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on March 12, 2020, 07:12:23 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 12, 2020, 06:26:01 PM
The ROI's Government's actions are all going to be pretty pointless without similar action in NI. Seemed like a get your  ducks-in-a-row sorta situation :-[

I think RoI have taken the correct decision.  What I don't get is why a political decision to not align the north was allowed, that's just ridiculous .... one part of island in lockdown, the other not.  Has to have been a DUP lead decision that won the day.  They'll probably agree to align tomorrow just not on the same day as RoI, they need to look separate.

Also, why was all travel from Italy to Ireland not banned ....  we've a unique strength in our favour, or we had, and that was being an island ... but the horse has bolted now.  Also, grandstanding by calling off Ireland v Italy game, but permitting Italian supporters to travel for the weekend anyway .... madness imo.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2020, 07:16:27 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 12, 2020, 07:04:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 11, 2020, 08:30:14 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 11, 2020, 08:16:52 PM
NYC Paddy's Parade is OFF

Yeah I heard that, I'm for MSG to watch Conlon, probably be off too

No fans will be allowed to be in attendance for the fight

https://www.newsday.com/sports/boxing/top-rank-shakur-stevenson-michael-conlan-coronavirus-1.42949662

Yep it's 2 nights in buncrana for me by looks of it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 07:18:17 PM
DUP happy to put thousands at risk rather than admit an all-ireland approach makes sense. Even at a time like this, they grab onto their union flag.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on March 12, 2020, 07:19:03 PM
27 new cases today. It looks to be really taking off now. Were there many Italians in Dublin over the weekend?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2020, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 07:18:17 PM
DUP happy to put thousands at risk rather than admit an all-ireland approach makes sense. Even at a time like this, they grab onto their union flag.

And Sinn féin
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 12, 2020, 07:25:27 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 07:18:17 PM
DUP happy to put thousands at risk rather than admit an all-ireland approach makes sense. Even at a time like this, they grab onto their union flag.

And your confirmation bias means you are much more likely to make Ireland right, and the UK wrong, in any subjective disagreement on policy between the two.

FWIW i find it impossible to believe that the expertise of Irish scientists and biochemists could be at the level of their UK counterparts. That's just a numbers game: the UK will invest more money and resources into things like this.

But FWIW I also find it impossible to believe that a Uk government would unilaterally accept the recommendations of scientists. Or an Irish government for that matter. Or any government.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 07:32:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2020, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 07:18:17 PM
DUP happy to put thousands at risk rather than admit an all-ireland approach makes sense. Even at a time like this, they grab onto their union flag.

And Sinn féin

Well yeah, them too
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on March 12, 2020, 07:40:00 PM
So if you have a VPN and set location to Italy... ?🤔
Asking for a friend like....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 12, 2020, 07:46:19 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 12, 2020, 07:25:27 PM
FWIW i find it impossible to believe that the expertise of Irish scientists and biochemists could be at the level of their UK counterparts. That's just a numbers game: the UK will invest more money and resources into things like this.

It isn't really a question of "my expert knows more than your expert". It is a question of understanding the situation in your own country and applying a lot of advice from the WHO and the ECDC.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 12, 2020, 07:48:03 PM
At this rate there will be more people bankrupt than dead!

I'm joking please don't attack me
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 12, 2020, 07:51:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 12, 2020, 07:46:19 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 12, 2020, 07:25:27 PM
FWIW i find it impossible to believe that the expertise of Irish scientists and biochemists could be at the level of their UK counterparts. That's just a numbers game: the UK will invest more money and resources into things like this.

It isn't really a question of "my expert knows more than your expert". It is a question of understanding the situation in your own country and applying a lot of advice from the WHO and the ECDC.
Is it not a case that the UK are listening to different experts, they are going with the Sociologists in Dominic Cummings brains trust who don't want people panicking or getting bored in isolation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 12, 2020, 07:55:27 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 12, 2020, 04:30:03 PM
Is Mass cancelled yet?

yes, more or less.
Funerals and weddings can still proceed with less than 100 people and separation in the church.

Parishes encouraged to exploit electronic means.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 12, 2020, 08:04:27 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 12, 2020, 07:25:27 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 07:18:17 PM
DUP happy to put thousands at risk rather than admit an all-ireland approach makes sense. Even at a time like this, they grab onto their union flag.

And your confirmation bias means you are much more likely to make Ireland right, and the UK wrong, in any subjective disagreement on policy between the two.

FWIW i find it impossible to believe that the expertise of Irish scientists and biochemists could be at the level of their UK counterparts. That's just a numbers game: the UK will invest more money and resources into things like this.

But FWIW I also find it impossible to believe that a Uk government would unilaterally accept the recommendations of scientists. Or an Irish government for that matter. Or any government.

The WHO told Ireland what to do,  France is also going the same. The uk is the outlier. The same uk that let Cheltenham go ahead. The advice is the same, it's a question of whether you value life more than money.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mayoman dan on March 12, 2020, 08:08:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 12, 2020, 07:55:27 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 12, 2020, 04:30:03 PM
Is Mass cancelled yet?

yes, more or less.
Funerals and weddings can still proceed with less than 100 people and separation in the church.

Parishes encouraged to exploit electronic means.

Not true.I know of 2 weddings taking place over the weekend with far more than 100 people attending and both are still going ahead as planned
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 12, 2020, 08:21:02 PM
Among a lot of other factors the UK are kicking the can down the road a bit trying to ready the NHS after a decade + of Austerity. UK v ROI is 60m population v 5m.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 12, 2020, 08:40:12 PM
Quote from: mayoman dan on March 12, 2020, 08:08:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 12, 2020, 07:55:27 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 12, 2020, 04:30:03 PM
Is Mass cancelled yet?

yes, more or less.
Funerals and weddings can still proceed with less than 100 people and separation in the church.

Parishes encouraged to exploit electronic means.

Not true.I know of 2 weddings taking place over the weekend with far more than 100 people attending and both are still going ahead as planned

These church guidelines are only out a couple of hours, give people the chance to catch up.

Quote from: bennydorano on March 12, 2020, 08:21:02 PM
Among a lot of other factors the UK are kicking the can down the road a bit trying to ready the NHS after a decade + of Austerity. UK v ROI is 60m population v 5m.

Readying the NHS is one thing, but if the number of cases grows beyond a certain point it will be overwhelmed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 12, 2020, 08:45:37 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 12, 2020, 08:21:02 PM
Among a lot of other factors the UK are kicking the can down the road a bit trying to ready the NHS after a decade + of Austerity. UK v ROI is 60m population v 5m.
The Tories ran the NHS down over the last decade. The UK has fewer ICU beds per capita than Germany and France. Covid 19 is about respirators and ICU capacity.

Johnson fought the election on law and order, getting Brexit done and the NHS.  He is on a very shaky scraw.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 12, 2020, 08:51:55 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 12, 2020, 08:46:02 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 12, 2020, 07:25:27 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 07:18:17 PM
DUP happy to put thousands at risk rather than admit an all-ireland approach makes sense. Even at a time like this, they grab onto their union flag.

And your confirmation bias means you are much more likely to make Ireland right, and the UK wrong, in any subjective disagreement on policy between the two.

FWIW i find it impossible to believe that the expertise of Irish scientists and biochemists could be at the level of their UK counterparts. That's just a numbers game: the UK will invest more money and resources into things like this.

But FWIW I also find it impossible to believe that a Uk government would unilaterally accept the recommendations of scientists. Or an Irish government for that matter. Or any government.

Paragraph One: Accuse someone of confirmation bias.

Paragraphs Two & Three: Display your own confirmation bias!  ;D ;)

Fionn in my defence I'm fully aware that I'm guilty! Which is why (I hope) you'll find I spend my time arguing with people who deal in absolutes. Like a couple of them on this thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: weareros on March 12, 2020, 09:02:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 12, 2020, 07:22:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 12, 2020, 07:18:17 PM
DUP happy to put thousands at risk rather than admit an all-ireland approach makes sense. Even at a time like this, they grab onto their union flag.

And Sinn féin

Michele O'Neill's statement with Arlene is going to be tough on some Sinn Fein supporters criticising Leo for not acting fast enough. They will now have to change tune and say he acted too hasty. For added impact, trying to make a name for himself in Washington, a shill for the EU, etc etc.

For the record, here is the Sinn Fein statement: "We have a situation here in the north where we are not at the stage yet where that closing schools is a decision we want to take now. We are guided by the science."

And we want these people running the island?



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 12, 2020, 09:16:41 PM
Quote from: laoislad on March 12, 2020, 07:40:00 PM
So if you have a VPN and set location to Italy... ?🤔
Asking for a friend like....

;D

What the hell is it with people and toilet roll >:(

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 12, 2020, 09:33:59 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 12, 2020, 09:16:41 PM
Quote from: laoislad on March 12, 2020, 07:40:00 PM
So if you have a VPN and set location to Italy... ?🤔
Asking for a friend like....

;D

What the hell is it with people and toilet roll >:(

Some people are full of sh | te
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on March 12, 2020, 10:18:53 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 12, 2020, 10:11:45 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 12, 2020, 09:16:41 PM
Quote from: laoislad on March 12, 2020, 07:40:00 PM
So if you have a VPN and set location to Italy... ?
Asking for a friend like....

;D

What the hell is it with people and toilet roll >:(

Worth remembering that if your local shop is out of bog roll, copies of The Sun can be purchased for 55p/€1.10.

I'd wipe my arse with a €5 note before i'd contribute 55p/€1.10 to that Rag!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on March 12, 2020, 10:27:12 PM
Mikel Arteta has it now, and Full round of fixtures going ahead this week. What are they playing at
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 12, 2020, 10:30:38 PM
They'll be called off now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 12, 2020, 10:31:04 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 12, 2020, 10:18:53 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 12, 2020, 10:11:45 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 12, 2020, 09:16:41 PM
Quote from: laoislad on March 12, 2020, 07:40:00 PM
So if you have a VPN and set location to Italy... ?
Asking for a friend like....

;D

What the hell is it with people and toilet roll >:(

Worth remembering that if your local shop is out of bog roll, copies of The Sun can be purchased for 55p/€1.10.

I'd wipe my arse with a €5 note before i'd contribute 55p/€1.10 to that Rag!

You'd be better to buy another newspaper, at least you could read it first.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on March 12, 2020, 10:35:38 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 12, 2020, 10:30:38 PM
They'll be called off now
Absolute madness if they aren't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 12, 2020, 11:40:04 PM
Anyone who still downplays our current situation should take 15 minutes and read this excellent report stacked full of facts and data. We are basically in a battle to have a death rate of .5%of infected as opposed to a death rate of 5%. Those are massive numbers if say 1.5m people get the  virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2020, 12:04:13 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 12, 2020, 11:40:04 PM
Anyone who still downplays our current situation should take 15 minutes and read this excellent report stacked full of facts and data. We are basically in a battle to have a death rate of .5%of infected as opposed to a death rate of 5%. Those are massive numbers if say 1.5m people get the  virus.

Worldwide?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on March 13, 2020, 12:22:02 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 12, 2020, 11:40:04 PM
Anyone who still downplays our current situation should take 15 minutes and read this excellent report stacked full of facts and data. We are basically in a battle to have a death rate of .5%of infected as opposed to a death rate of 5%. Those are massive numbers if say 1.5m people get the  virus.

Sorry, did you mean to link a report?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2020, 05:07:26 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 12, 2020, 09:16:41 PM
Quote from: laoislad on March 12, 2020, 07:40:00 PM
So if you have a VPN and set location to Italy... ?🤔
Asking for a friend like....

;D

What the hell is it with people and toilet roll >:(
This song could be reworded and rereleased
https://youtu.be/EIIWKA_h12Q
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2020, 05:16:34 AM
Italy has

15113 cases in total
1153 people in Intensive care with the virus
1016 dead

Yesterday almost 200 people with the virus died in Italy.

The goal in Ireland is to keep the number of cases down. Once large numbers of people need intensive care the mortality rate
is appalling.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on March 13, 2020, 05:47:32 AM
Why's no one talking about the Eurovision?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2020, 07:35:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2020, 05:16:34 AM
Italy has

15113 cases in total
1153 people in Intensive care with the virus
1016 dead

Yesterday almost 200 people with the virus died in Italy.

The goal in Ireland is to keep the number of cases down. Once large numbers of people need intensive care the mortality rate
is appalling.

Surely looking at Italy as a comparison is wrong? Different set of dynamics, culture, numbers, and more importantly they had the worst possible start. Each country will react differently. Hopefully we don't hit Italys rates of cases and deaths
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 13, 2020, 07:49:41 AM
I think every country will be very different. I am not sure if anyone has said it but Flybe going under is probably a bit of a blessing. 25% less flights. (To the 6 anyway)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on March 13, 2020, 08:01:19 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 13, 2020, 07:49:41 AM
I think every country will be very different. I am not sure if anyone has said it but Flybe going under is probably a bit of a blessing. 25% less flights. (To the 6 anyway)
It's not a blessing for all the people who have kids/rent/ mortgages to pay and get 3 weeks redundancy pay.

Not great for the 95 baggage handlers who have lost there jobs either.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/redundancy-plans-for-95-baggage-handlers-at-belfast-city-airport-devastating-39037728.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 13, 2020, 08:02:12 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on March 13, 2020, 12:22:02 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 12, 2020, 11:40:04 PM
Anyone who still downplays our current situation should take 15 minutes and read this excellent report stacked full of facts and data. We are basically in a battle to have a death rate of .5%of infected as opposed to a death rate of 5%. Those are massive numbers if say 1.5m people get the  virus.

Sorry, did you mean to link a report?

I did!

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 13, 2020, 08:21:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2020, 07:35:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2020, 05:16:34 AM
Italy has

15113 cases in total
1153 people in Intensive care with the virus
1016 dead

Yesterday almost 200 people with the virus died in Italy.

The goal in Ireland is to keep the number of cases down. Once large numbers of people need intensive care the mortality rate
is appalling.

Surely looking at Italy as a comparison is wrong? Different set of dynamics, culture, numbers, and more importantly they had the worst possible start. Each country will react differently. Hopefully we don't hit Italys rates of cases and deaths

No it is right to look at it. It is an example of what will happen if we don't do a lock down early in the process - a lot of you were arguing against doing this but at last the sensible calls are being made and this is coming from all the experts looking at countries like China and Italy. Once the health service is overwhelmed people who would have otherwise been saved will instead die due to lack of treatment (respirators).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 13, 2020, 08:42:25 AM
We do need a certain amount of the population to actually get the virus in order to build immunity. It's about controlling the numbers, elongating the process.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2020, 09:07:54 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2020, 07:35:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2020, 05:16:34 AM
Italy has

15113 cases in total
1153 people in Intensive care with the virus
1016 dead

Yesterday almost 200 people with the virus died in Italy.

The goal in Ireland is to keep the number of cases down. Once large numbers of people need intensive care the mortality rate
is appalling.

Surely looking at Italy as a comparison is wrong? Different set of dynamics, culture, numbers, and more importantly they had the worst possible start. Each country will react differently. Hopefully we don't hit Italys rates of cases and deaths
It's microbes versus humans.

Our wee UK has a population of c 60m
5% get infected. 5% of those need intensive care. 150,000
The UK has 4,000 ICU beds.
#seniorhurling
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 13, 2020, 09:10:36 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 13, 2020, 08:21:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2020, 07:35:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2020, 05:16:34 AM
Italy has

15113 cases in total
1153 people in Intensive care with the virus
1016 dead

Yesterday almost 200 people with the virus died in Italy.

The goal in Ireland is to keep the number of cases down. Once large numbers of people need intensive care the mortality rate
is appalling.

Surely looking at Italy as a comparison is wrong? Different set of dynamics, culture, numbers, and more importantly they had the worst possible start. Each country will react differently. Hopefully we don't hit Italys rates of cases and deaths

No it is right to look at it. It is an example of what will happen if we don't do a lock down early in the process - a lot of you were arguing against doing this but at last the sensible calls are being made and this is coming from all the experts looking at countries like China and Italy. Once the health service is overwhelmed people who would have otherwise been saved will instead die due to lack of treatment (respirators).

I see where you are going with this and I agree.  However, not to just scare people but what isn't being mentioned is that Italy has the highest elderly population in Europe. Almost 1/4 of the population is 65 or over. Open to correction on the age bracket.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 13, 2020, 09:13:43 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 13, 2020, 09:10:36 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 13, 2020, 08:21:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2020, 07:35:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2020, 05:16:34 AM
Italy has

15113 cases in total
1153 people in Intensive care with the virus
1016 dead

Yesterday almost 200 people with the virus died in Italy.

The goal in Ireland is to keep the number of cases down. Once large numbers of people need intensive care the mortality rate
is appalling.

Surely looking at Italy as a comparison is wrong? Different set of dynamics, culture, numbers, and more importantly they had the worst possible start. Each country will react differently. Hopefully we don't hit Italys rates of cases and deaths

No it is right to look at it. It is an example of what will happen if we don't do a lock down early in the process - a lot of you were arguing against doing this but at last the sensible calls are being made and this is coming from all the experts looking at countries like China and Italy. Once the health service is overwhelmed people who would have otherwise been saved will instead die due to lack of treatment (respirators).

I see where you are going with this and I agree.  However, not to just scare people but what isn't being mentioned is that Italy has the highest elderly population in Europe. Almost 1/4 of the population is 65 or over. Open to correction on the age bracket.

I am sure that is a factor but what I am reading is that in italian hospitals, which on brink of collapse, they are deciding between whether to treat people who are 40 yrs old vrs someone 30 yrs old. The old people are dying thing is lulling people into a dangerous sense of security that they will be ok. They wont if this thing goes out of control.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 13, 2020, 09:14:35 AM
Italian figures aren't right though clearly they have many more confirmed cases than 15,000 that's only the amount who have tested positive.

It seems to have slipped under the radar that the UK are only testing people who are hospitalised, if you show symptoms you have to self isolate... so the number in reality is much much higher than the number we are getting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 13, 2020, 09:21:43 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 13, 2020, 09:10:36 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 13, 2020, 08:21:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2020, 07:35:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2020, 05:16:34 AM
Italy has

15113 cases in total
1153 people in Intensive care with the virus
1016 dead

Yesterday almost 200 people with the virus died in Italy.

The goal in Ireland is to keep the number of cases down. Once large numbers of people need intensive care the mortality rate
is appalling.

Surely looking at Italy as a comparison is wrong? Different set of dynamics, culture, numbers, and more importantly they had the worst possible start. Each country will react differently. Hopefully we don't hit Italys rates of cases and deaths

No it is right to look at it. It is an example of what will happen if we don't do a lock down early in the process - a lot of you were arguing against doing this but at last the sensible calls are being made and this is coming from all the experts looking at countries like China and Italy. Once the health service is overwhelmed people who would have otherwise been saved will instead die due to lack of treatment (respirators).

I see where you are going with this and I agree.  However, not to just scare people but what isn't being mentioned is that Italy has the highest elderly population in Europe. Almost 1/4 of the population is 65 or over. Open to correction on the age bracket.
That's true, but what people aren't factoring in is that the NI (& the south) have one of the worst respiratory death rates in Europe. That could be a huge factor when looking at the impact of Covid19. But the reality is we don't know, but should be taking Italy as a very clear warning of what can happen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on March 13, 2020, 09:22:43 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 13, 2020, 08:42:25 AM
We do need a certain amount of the population to actually get the virus in order to build immunity. It's about controlling the numbers, elongating the process.

I don't think it's been confirmed that getting it actually gives you immunity
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: square_ball on March 13, 2020, 09:24:54 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 13, 2020, 09:14:35 AM
Italian figures aren't right though clearly they have many more confirmed cases than 15,000 that's only the amount who have tested positive.

It seems to have slipped under the radar that the UK are only testing people who are hospitalised, if you show symptoms you have to self isolate... so the number in reality is much much higher than the number we are getting.

Yes the daily reported figure is in no way accurate. They've estimated that the people who have it at the moment in the UK may actually be between 5,000 and 10,000.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2020, 09:36:14 AM

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2020/03/13/sport-coronavirus-live-premier-league-suspended-efl-rugby-latest/

Sport coronavirus live: Premier League to be suspended this morning with EFL likely to follow - latest updates
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2020, 09:41:31 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 13, 2020, 09:14:35 AM
Italian figures aren't right though clearly they have many more confirmed cases than 15,000 that's only the amount who have tested positive.

It seems to have slipped under the radar that the UK are only testing people who are hospitalised, if you show symptoms you have to self isolate... so the number in reality is much much higher than the number we are getting.

What really counts is the strength of the health system

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/prepared-britain-coronavirus-pandemic-sophisticated-analysis/

Covering 195 countries, the GHS Index assesses countries' preparedness in six areas: prevention, detection, rapid response, strength of the health system, compliance with international norms, and the overall risk environment. It is in the latter three that the UK faces real challenges.Like many other high-income countries, the UK also has a large older population – 18.4 per cent of people in the UK are over 65, more than double the global average. In any public health emergency, older adults are especially vulnerable, but only Scotland and Wales have publicly available plans that address this issue.
When an outbreak does occur, the strength of a country's healthcare system and health workforce determine its ability to adequately treat the sick and protect health workers. And on this measure, the UK woefully underperforms thanks to chronic under-investment in the NHS.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 13, 2020, 09:51:52 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 13, 2020, 09:22:43 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 13, 2020, 08:42:25 AM
We do need a certain amount of the population to actually get the virus in order to build immunity. It's about controlling the numbers, elongating the process.

I don't think it's been confirmed that getting it actually gives you immunity

Yes it's not confirmed but as with other Viruses the thinking is that it is unlikely that you'll be reinfected as you will have built up antibodies to fight the infection.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 13, 2020, 10:01:44 AM
I'm leaving it to the globally recognised and award-winning scientists and medical professionals to decide on the best course of action. Apologies to all social media and barstool experts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2020, 10:05:21 AM
No one is really underestimating it, regardless of what AFM and others may think, but the reality is we can only deal with the numbers we have and how responsible we can be, the figures for each country will be different for a lot of reasons, some i outlined earlier, the doubling effect of known cases is true, and in Italy there may be as many with it but self isolating and they are not on the figures also.

It's too hard to define, and its a day by day or even an hour by hour thing. The panic buyers are loading up and we haven't hit our peak yet!! whats going to happen when suppliers can't get the stock  in due to their own health and safety procedures? the panic buyers will have feck all left and left nothing for everyone else!!

14 weeks is a long time away for it to be peaking don't you think? And whats the difference between the scientists in Denmark and the UK ?

All my appointments are dropping off and that's fine, Id rather they didn't come in and see me and possibly affect me or my co workers, as a business we'll probably close for a couple of weeks soon enough, the building above me is working less half capacity now, from nearly 600 employees to 240 will be in work from Monday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 13, 2020, 10:07:04 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 13, 2020, 10:01:44 AM
I'm leaving it to the globally recognised and award-winning scientists and medical professionals to decide on the best course of action. Apologies to all social media and barstool experts.

Why should some guy with 7 years of medical school and 3 years in the USA doing a PhD have more respect for his opinion than me, who spent 10 minutes on Facebook?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2020, 10:11:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2020, 10:05:21 AM
No one is really underestimating it, regardless of what AFM and others may think, but the reality is we can only deal with the numbers we have and how responsible we can be, the figures for each country will be different for a lot of reasons, some i outlined earlier, the doubling effect of known cases is true, and in Italy there may be as many with it but self isolating and they are not on the figures also.

It's too hard to define, and its a day by day or even an hour by hour thing. The panic buyers are loading up and we haven't hit our peak yet!! whats going to happen when suppliers can't get the stock  in due to their own health and safety procedures? the panic buyers will have feck all left and left nothing for everyone else!!

14 weeks is a long time away for it to be peaking don't you think? And whats the difference between the scientists in Denmark and the UK ?

All my appointments are dropping off and that's fine, Id rather they didn't come in and see me and possibly affect me or my co workers, as a business we'll probably close for a couple of weeks soon enough, the building above me is working less half capacity now, from nearly 600 employees to 240 will be in work from Monday.
Tipperary need more than 14 weeks to.peak..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2020, 10:12:18 AM
There won't be any sport for the foreseeable
.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 13, 2020, 10:13:36 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 13, 2020, 10:07:04 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 13, 2020, 10:01:44 AM
I'm leaving it to the globally recognised and award-winning scientists and medical professionals to decide on the best course of action. Apologies to all social media and barstool experts.

Why should some guy with 7 years of medical school and 3 years in the USA doing a PhD have more respect for his opinion than me, who spent 10 minutes on Facebook?
I was hoping 5 minutes with Kenneth Copeland and a combination of holy water and cider vinegar would dispatch the bug. Apparently not!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 13, 2020, 10:23:10 AM
Hudson-Odoi has it now. Chelsea squad in self isolation
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TheOptimist on March 13, 2020, 10:32:24 AM
Ironic thing with the number people swarming the supermartkets yesterday is that said individuals could well now have been infected given the swarms of people present at the supermarket  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2020, 10:37:56 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-people-returning-from-spain-italy-to-restrict-movements-for-fortnight-says-harris-1.4201600

Meanwhile, intensive care doctors warned last night they expected to have to make "challenging" triage decisions involving patients.

"Intensive care will need to be directed to those patients who are most likely to benefit and, in this instance, to save the most lives," three groups representing intensive care staff said in a statement.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 13, 2020, 10:48:02 AM
My work has now put plans in place.

The usual, work from home when you can.

My team of 8 will work part time and at different times to avoid spreading the virus.

I'm quite happy with that. I hate the noise of people coughing I'm the office, not because of C19 but because people have poor hygeine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 13, 2020, 10:49:19 AM
Not meant in any way to provoke, but something I would be interested in the answers to with regards to infections.

The percentage of smokers affected by this v non smokers.

From a few visits to Italy, I've never been to China - they are huge smokers. Could this be a factor in the infection rates?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2020, 10:51:38 AM

Ben Rumsby
✔
@ben_rumsby
Premier League, EFL and FA all preparing statements confirming suspension of football in England.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: illdecide on March 13, 2020, 10:56:59 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 13, 2020, 10:48:02 AM
My work has now put plans in place.

The usual, work from home when you can.

My team of 8 will work part time and at different times to avoid spreading the virus.

I'm quite happy with that. I hate the noise of people coughing I'm the office, not because of C19 but because people have poor hygeine.

I'm off work atm sick (not coronavirus) but seen an email this morning telling all employee's to take their laptop and mobile phones home every night just to be sure and if the offices are shut then you work from home
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on March 13, 2020, 10:58:10 AM
St Patricks parade in Manchester still going ahead on Sunday, my club has pulled out and good to see a few others pulling out too. Their only concern is filling the huge beer tent on Sunday as otherwise they'll lose money.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2020, 11:02:25 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 13, 2020, 10:58:10 AM
St Patricks parade in Manchester still going ahead on Sunday, my club has pulled out and good to see a few others pulling out too. Their only concern is filling the huge beer tent on Sunday as otherwise they'll lose money.

They won't get much repeat business if they go ahead!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 13, 2020, 11:23:43 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 13, 2020, 10:07:04 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 13, 2020, 10:01:44 AM
I'm leaving it to the globally recognised and award-winning scientists and medical professionals to decide on the best course of action. Apologies to all social media and barstool experts.

Why should some guy with 7 years of medical school and 3 years in the USA doing a PhD have more respect for his opinion than me, who spent 10 minutes on Facebook?

That is the problem you see. The doctors and experts in the WHO are telling everyone the same things. Some governments are listening and some are not. Social Media, especially twitter, has been extremely useful in sharing the experiences from Italy and China and informing me personally on what is coming. I have used much of this information to steer the company I work for. So for example we have social distancing implemented here before the government even mentioned it. Up North you are taking the word of a buffoon in Boris and in the US Trump who no doubt are biased towards short term business needs over peoples health. Interesting in the US sports bodies are taking the lead over their president.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omagh_gael on March 13, 2020, 11:31:56 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 13, 2020, 10:07:04 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 13, 2020, 10:01:44 AM
I'm leaving it to the globally recognised and award-winning scientists and medical professionals to decide on the best course of action. Apologies to all social media and barstool experts.

Why should some guy with 7 years of medical school and 3 years in the USA doing a PhD have more respect for his opinion than me, who spent 10 minutes on Facebook?

Most reasonable people fully defer to the experts. However, the worrying thing is that a primary school in Belcoo is going to be in class due to expert advice whilst their peers in Blacklion are off today also on expert advice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 13, 2020, 11:34:04 AM
It really has highlighted this problem in society and how social media etc has gone mad in the world.

It was the same with Brexit etc(whether you are for or against it).

Gobshites who knows nothing on their high horse about economy etc and then people listen to them and take things as fact.

Politicians also have become very unscrupulous in the UK(they always work but Boris is next level) and perceive themselves as experts when they know nothing and just make decisions based on money.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: square_ball on March 13, 2020, 11:38:14 AM
So now Sinn Fein want the schools in the North closed less than 24 hours after saying they should remain open.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 13, 2020, 11:39:31 AM
Will closing schools at this stage actually be counter productive? The peak is 12 -14 weeks away. That's a long time to be working from home / off work. If you work in a role that you can' t work from home (healthcare, retail etc) what happens? Who's looking after those children?
I get is that it's about stopping the spread but a lot of families are going to be put under an almighty strain.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 13, 2020, 11:40:49 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 13, 2020, 10:49:19 AM
Not meant in any way to provoke, but something I would be interested in the answers to with regards to infections.

The percentage of smokers affected by this v non smokers.

From a few visits to Italy, I've never been to China - they are huge smokers. Could this be a factor in the infection rates?
Not sure if it is a factor in infection rates but it is a factor in survival rates. The majority of fatalities in China were male and it is being put down to the huge disparity in smoking rates, with >50% of men and <5% of women there being smokers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 13, 2020, 11:54:00 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 13, 2020, 10:49:19 AM
Not meant in any way to provoke, but something I would be interested in the answers to with regards to infections.

The percentage of smokers affected by this v non smokers.

From a few visits to Italy, I've never been to China - they are huge smokers. Could this be a factor in the infection rates?

It is a respiratory illness, if it is compromised in any way then you are increasing the risk of how bad the infection will be.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 13, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Just for the craic, now we have agreed that it is much worse than the flu because the mortality rates are about 35 times higher (3.5% v .1%) are there any estimates of what the mortality rate would be like for the flu if a large % of the population did not get seasonal shots?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 13, 2020, 12:22:46 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 13, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Just for the craic, now we have agreed that it is much worse than the flu because the mortality rates are about 35 times higher (3.5% v .1%) are there any estimates of what the mortality rate would be like for the flu if a large % of the population did not get seasonal shots?

Mortality rates would be based on confirmed cases only and you aren't going to get a true mortality rate. I think they are saying it is around 2% but that depends.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 13, 2020, 12:33:19 PM
On a side note I find it interesting that there are many companies in UK that are navigating around UK government advice.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 13, 2020, 12:38:47 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 13, 2020, 12:22:46 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 13, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Just for the craic, now we have agreed that it is much worse than the flu because the mortality rates are about 35 times higher (3.5% v .1%) are there any estimates of what the mortality rate would be like for the flu if a large % of the population did not get seasonal shots?

Mortality rates would be based on confirmed cases only and you aren't going to get a true mortality rate. I think they are saying it is around 2% but that depends.

Yeah 3.5% is definitely not agreed!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 13, 2020, 01:43:24 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 13, 2020, 12:22:46 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 13, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Just for the craic, now we have agreed that it is much worse than the flu because the mortality rates are about 35 times higher (3.5% v .1%) are there any estimates of what the mortality rate would be like for the flu if a large % of the population did not get seasonal shots?

Mortality rates would be based on confirmed cases only and you aren't going to get a true mortality rate. I think they are saying it is around 2% but that depends.
I know it is early days and I have seen everything from 1 to 5% so i was going for the middle ground. My question was more around flu data if we did not have vaccines and the resultant herd immunity
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 13, 2020, 01:54:57 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 13, 2020, 01:43:24 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 13, 2020, 12:22:46 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 13, 2020, 11:59:42 AM
Just for the craic, now we have agreed that it is much worse than the flu because the mortality rates are about 35 times higher (3.5% v .1%) are there any estimates of what the mortality rate would be like for the flu if a large % of the population did not get seasonal shots?

Mortality rates would be based on confirmed cases only and you aren't going to get a true mortality rate. I think they are saying it is around 2% but that depends.
I know it is early days and I have seen everything from 1 to 5% so i was going for the middle ground. My question was more around flu data if we did not have vaccines and the resultant herd immunity

I see where you are coming from. The death toll for flu would likely be a lot higher if there wasn't a vaccine. However C19 would kill more
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2020, 01:59:44 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1238110096334479364
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: yellowcard on March 13, 2020, 02:11:26 PM
Italy in lockdown, Spain on the verge of lockdown a health crises the likes of which we have not seen in our lifetimes and Stevie Nolan still manages to use the virus to stir up a sectarian debate for his own ratings. A self publicist of the highest order. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 13, 2020, 02:11:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 13, 2020, 10:05:21 AM
No one is really underestimating it, regardless of what AFM and others may think, but the reality is we can only deal with the numbers we have and how responsible we can be, the figures for each country will be different for a lot of reasons, some i outlined earlier, the doubling effect of known cases is true, and in Italy there may be as many with it but self isolating and they are not on the figures also.

It's too hard to define, and its a day by day or even an hour by hour thing. The panic buyers are loading up and we haven't hit our peak yet!! whats going to happen when suppliers can't get the stock  in due to their own health and safety procedures? the panic buyers will have feck all left and left nothing for everyone else!!

14 weeks is a long time away for it to be peaking don't you think? And whats the difference between the scientists in Denmark and the UK ?

All my appointments are dropping off and that's fine, Id rather they didn't come in and see me and possibly affect me or my co workers, as a business we'll probably close for a couple of weeks soon enough, the building above me is working less half capacity now, from nearly 600 employees to 240 will be in work from Monday.

Apart from the 100,000+ people who have attended Cheltenham this week off course  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on March 13, 2020, 03:10:44 PM
Hospital EDs much quieter the last week or so, just shows that there are loads of people who go to the ED at the drop of a hat and clog it up for emergencies
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on March 13, 2020, 03:16:06 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 13, 2020, 03:10:44 PM
Hospital EDs much quieter the last week or so, just shows that there are loads of people who go to the ED at the drop of a hat and clog it up for emergencies

Been told this myself by people I know working in the HSE. Trollies are often full because so many present themselves for very little reason. Now suddenly they can't stay far enough away from the hospitals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 13, 2020, 03:20:00 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 13, 2020, 03:16:38 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 13, 2020, 10:01:44 AM
I'm leaving it to the globally recognised and award-winning scientists and medical professionals to decide on the best course of action. Apologies to all social media and barstool experts.

(https://i.postimg.cc/YCszp83x/experts-Over-Time.jpg)

Isn't that a bit sexist? Couldn't the PhD student have been female?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mouview on March 13, 2020, 03:24:52 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on March 13, 2020, 03:16:06 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 13, 2020, 03:10:44 PM
Hospital EDs much quieter the last week or so, just shows that there are loads of people who go to the ED at the drop of a hat and clog it up for emergencies

Been told this myself by people I know working in the HSE. Trollies are often full because so many present themselves for very little reason. Now suddenly they can't stay far enough away from the hospitals.

Most A&E overcrowding due to drunk travellers fighting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 13, 2020, 03:34:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 13, 2020, 03:20:00 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 13, 2020, 03:16:38 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 13, 2020, 10:01:44 AM
I'm leaving it to the globally recognised and award-winning scientists and medical professionals to decide on the best course of action. Apologies to all social media and barstool experts.

(https://i.postimg.cc/YCszp83x/experts-Over-Time.jpg)

Isn't that a bit sexist? Couldn't the PhD student have been female?

Probably. Then again it might not be representative
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2020, 03:48:31 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-plan-sees-ireland-embark-on-vast-social-experiment-1.4201524

"With computer modelling predicting a rapid rise in cases, it was clear the always stretched Irish health system would be overloaded within weeks. Meanwhile, the disease was gaining a firm foothold across continental Europe, now the new epicentre of this disease.

This left policymakers feeling they had only one option: strike hard now in the hope this will delay the onset of cases, delay the spike in admissions and curb the spread of the disease.

In the United Kingdom a different approach is being taken. This seems to involve an acceptance of some community transmission, at least at levels with which the National Health Service can cope. Consequently, the social restrictions being imposed are far less intrusive, so far."

What is NI going to do ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 13, 2020, 03:50:39 PM
Still find it baffling how Cheltenham is still on going yet nearly every other sport has been postponed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 13, 2020, 03:51:48 PM
Quote from: mouview on March 13, 2020, 03:24:52 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on March 13, 2020, 03:16:06 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 13, 2020, 03:10:44 PM
Hospital EDs much quieter the last week or so, just shows that there are loads of people who go to the ED at the drop of a hat and clog it up for emergencies

Been told this myself by people I know working in the HSE. Trollies are often full because so many present themselves for very little reason. Now suddenly they can't stay far enough away from the hospitals.

Most A&E overcrowding due to drunk travellers fighting.

You think this is all a big over reaction don't you? Have you bothered to educate yourself even a little on what is coming?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 13, 2020, 04:00:46 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 13, 2020, 03:50:39 PM
Still find it baffling how Cheltenham is still on going yet nearly every other sport has been postponed.

£350 million is your answer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 13, 2020, 06:12:13 PM
20 new cases in the ROI bringing the total up to 90 now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 13, 2020, 06:20:57 PM
https://twitter.com/STVNews/status/1238468179036459008?s=09

The UK strategy clearly explained (seriously)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 13, 2020, 06:28:37 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 13, 2020, 06:12:13 PM
20 new cases in the ROI bringing the total up to 90 now.

I dread to think how many it will be by next Friday when we see the repercussions of all those racing tossers coming back from Cheltenham.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on March 13, 2020, 06:32:23 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51879525
The first community transmission cases of coronavirus have been confirmed in Northern Ireland, the Public Health Agency (PHA) has said.

Community transmission means a patient had no known contact with another confirmed case or travelled from a country badly affected by the pandemic.

Three of nine new cases were contracted in this way. The total is now 29.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 13, 2020, 06:50:46 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 13, 2020, 06:20:57 PM
https://twitter.com/STVNews/status/1238468179036459008?s=09

The UK strategy clearly explained (seriously)

Thats everyone's strategy in fairness but how do they elongate it if they allow people to mingle together to their hearts content in big crowds
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 13, 2020, 06:53:10 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 13, 2020, 06:20:57 PM
https://twitter.com/STVNews/status/1238468179036459008?s=09

The UK strategy clearly explained (seriously)

That's the case all over. Or at least it should be, given what happened in Italy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2020, 06:59:04 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 13, 2020, 06:50:46 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 13, 2020, 06:20:57 PM
https://twitter.com/STVNews/status/1238468179036459008?s=09

The UK strategy clearly explained (seriously)

Thats everyone's strategy in fairness but how do they elongate it if they allow people to mingle together to their hearts content in big crowds
I can't see how they reduce the height of the first curve
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 13, 2020, 07:28:22 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 13, 2020, 07:07:23 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 13, 2020, 06:50:46 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 13, 2020, 06:20:57 PM
https://twitter.com/STVNews/status/1238468179036459008?s=09

The UK strategy clearly explained (seriously)

Thats everyone's strategy in fairness but how do they elongate it if they allow people to mingle together to their hearts content in big crowds
Where the fcuk have you been? They've explained this very simply.
This will obviously happen if;
People wash their hands.
Over 70s don't go on cruises.
International school trips cease.
Sick people stay in bed.

Therefore, you get the same number of cases, just over a longer period.
This will be more manageable for the NHS.

QED

Scary that some people are not "getting" it. Very worrying that some people may not be able to follow very simple instructions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 13, 2020, 08:14:04 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 13, 2020, 07:07:23 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 13, 2020, 06:50:46 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 13, 2020, 06:20:57 PM
https://twitter.com/STVNews/status/1238468179036459008?s=09

The UK strategy clearly explained (seriously)

Thats everyone's strategy in fairness but how do they elongate it if they allow people to mingle together to their hearts content in big crowds
Where the fcuk have you been? They've explained this very simply.
This will obviously happen if;
People wash their hands.
Over 70s don't go on cruises.
International school trips cease.
Sick people stay in bed.

Therefore, you get the same number of cases, just over a longer period.
This will be more manageable for the NHS.

QED

Is that all that's needed, wow why hasnt someone thought of this already. Just a few questions, so what about people who are carrying the virus like children and are showing no symptoms. We just let them run around the schools is it? And in the first 5 days or so when all victims are at their most contagious yet are exhibiting no symptoms, how is spreading stopped then?

Oh and when you are at it could you tell us what countries have reversed the Corona trend by just using this approach.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 13, 2020, 08:19:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 13, 2020, 08:18:29 PM
Sorry I made you type all that. I wasn't being serious at all.

ah. Deleted my response then!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 13, 2020, 08:20:10 PM
Trump said he may have to include the UK in the European travel ban after the number of cases increased.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 13, 2020, 08:21:33 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 13, 2020, 08:18:29 PM
Sorry I made you type all that. I wasn't being serious at all.

With some people you never know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: weareros on March 13, 2020, 08:26:05 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 13, 2020, 08:20:10 PM
Trump said he may have to include the UK in the European travel ban after the number of cases increased.
Mind you, if we end up the only ones not banned, won't every crazy American that thought they were entitled to a nice holiday in Spain or Italy try to fly back via Ireland, thereby increasing spread here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: manfromdelmonte on March 13, 2020, 08:33:18 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 13, 2020, 08:26:05 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 13, 2020, 08:20:10 PM
Trump said he may have to include the UK in the European travel ban after the number of cases increased.
Mind you, if we end up the only ones not banned, won't every crazy American that thought they were entitled to a nice holiday in Spain or Italy try to fly back via Ireland, thereby increasing spread here.
I've two relations home from the US at the moment

They are much more relaxed about being here than in the US
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 13, 2020, 08:45:08 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 13, 2020, 08:20:10 PM
Trump said he may have to include the UK in the European travel ban after the number of cases increased.
Has he decided it's not a Democrat hoax after all?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 13, 2020, 10:05:00 PM
Advice for self isolating and more, on Late Late show now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 13, 2020, 10:06:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 13, 2020, 08:45:08 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 13, 2020, 08:20:10 PM
Trump said he may have to include the UK in the European travel ban after the number of cases increased.
Has he decided it's not a Democrat hoax after all?

No, but his poor performance in this crisis is now all Obama's fault, as of the latest unhinged tweet storm this morning.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 13, 2020, 11:02:35 PM
u turn coming from Boris the Buffoon. Is expert advice must have shouted louder or maybe because Cheltenham is over now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 13, 2020, 11:19:43 PM
Eamon Martin writing to Peter Weir asking him to consider closing schools asap to allow parents to make arrangements over next 4 days re: childcare.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 14, 2020, 12:23:47 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 13, 2020, 11:23:52 PM
CoronaVirus could lead to further delays on Casement Park development.

Probably.

Construction  is the one class of work suited to continuing, you are not hugely exposed while driving a digger.   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Niall Quinn on March 14, 2020, 12:53:00 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 14, 2020, 12:23:47 AM
you are not hugely exposed while driving a digger.

That's what she said
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 14, 2020, 02:01:04 AM
24 hours after insisting that the UK would not ban mass gathering gatherings Johnson did a u-turn..

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/13/mass-gatherings-banned-britain-boris-johnson-makes-coronavirus/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: DrinkingHarp on March 14, 2020, 06:54:47 AM
Good interactive map

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 08:35:47 AM
The size and population of Russia and not one case
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 08:43:19 AM
Quote from: hardstation on March 14, 2020, 08:40:32 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 08:35:47 AM
The size and population of Russia and not one case
Their over 70s mustn't go on cruises.

Or skiing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 14, 2020, 09:02:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2020, 02:01:04 AM
24 hours after insisting that the UK would not ban mass gathering gatherings Johnson did a u-turn..

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/13/mass-gatherings-banned-britain-boris-johnson-makes-coronavirus/

Situation is changing very quickly Seafoid. Surely you can see that? It's not like reversing a policy decision
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 14, 2020, 09:16:31 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 14, 2020, 09:02:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2020, 02:01:04 AM
24 hours after insisting that the UK would not ban mass gathering gatherings Johnson did a u-turn..

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/13/mass-gatherings-banned-britain-boris-johnson-makes-coronavirus/

Situation is changing very quickly Seafoid. Surely you can see that? It's not like reversing a policy decision

No it's a U-Turn because businesses are doing the right thing by protecting their workforce. Businesses can very quickly find themselves being in big trouble with most of their workforce being off sick and have implemented social distancing measures. Sporting fixtures are doing the same other than Cheltenham.

You can't put it down to the situation changing, the situation was always going to change and the experts would have taking this into consideration. Boris Johnson wanted herd immunity and has let things continue but the public are going against him so he has to look like it's his decision.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 14, 2020, 09:17:12 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 14, 2020, 09:02:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2020, 02:01:04 AM
24 hours after insisting that the UK would not ban mass gathering gatherings Johnson did a u-turn..

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/13/mass-gatherings-banned-britain-boris-johnson-makes-coronavirus/

Situation is changing very quickly Seafoid. Surely you can see that? It's not like reversing a policy decision
I'm interested in public confidence in the Tories.
They were banging on about herd mmunity all week

https://mobile.twitter.com/g_gosden/status/1238364767728828416

Then on Friday other countries started closing schools and the UK started receiving criticism.
The UK only has 4000 ICU beds .
It is missing 40,000 nurses. Johnson promised to fix this.

https://youtu.be/wvZEvToplZE

It doesn't look good with 800 infected
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 09:34:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2020, 09:17:12 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 14, 2020, 09:02:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2020, 02:01:04 AM
24 hours after insisting that the UK would not ban mass gathering gatherings Johnson did a u-turn..

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/13/mass-gatherings-banned-britain-boris-johnson-makes-coronavirus/

Situation is changing very quickly Seafoid. Surely you can see that? It's not like reversing a policy decision
I'm interested in public confidence in the Tories.
They were banging on about herd mmunity all week

https://mobile.twitter.com/g_gosden/status/1238364767728828416

Then on Friday other countries started closing schools and the UK started receiving criticism.
The UK only has 4000 ICU beds .
It is missing 40,000 nurses. Johnson promised to fix this.

https://youtu.be/wvZEvToplZE

It doesn't look good with 800 infected
How many years does it take to train a nurse?

I'm no fan of Boris but feck sake he'll hardly can't be blamed for that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on March 14, 2020, 10:32:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 09:34:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2020, 09:17:12 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 14, 2020, 09:02:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2020, 02:01:04 AM
24 hours after insisting that the UK would not ban mass gathering gatherings Johnson did a u-turn..

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/13/mass-gatherings-banned-britain-boris-johnson-makes-coronavirus/

Situation is changing very quickly Seafoid. Surely you can see that? It's not like reversing a policy decision
I'm interested in public confidence in the Tories.
They were banging on about herd mmunity all week

https://mobile.twitter.com/g_gosden/status/1238364767728828416

Then on Friday other countries started closing schools and the UK started receiving criticism.
The UK only has 4000 ICU beds .
It is missing 40,000 nurses. Johnson promised to fix this.

https://youtu.be/wvZEvToplZE

It doesn't look good with 800 infected
How many years does it take to train a nurse?

I'm no fan of Boris but feck sake he'll hardly can't be blamed for that
Maybe not Boris directly, but the tories as a whole are 100% responsible for the lack of nurses, and as their leader he carrys the can.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 11:28:27 AM
Quote from: ardtole on March 14, 2020, 10:32:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 09:34:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2020, 09:17:12 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 14, 2020, 09:02:04 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2020, 02:01:04 AM
24 hours after insisting that the UK would not ban mass gathering gatherings Johnson did a u-turn..

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/13/mass-gatherings-banned-britain-boris-johnson-makes-coronavirus/

Situation is changing very quickly Seafoid. Surely you can see that? It's not like reversing a policy decision
I'm interested in public confidence in the Tories.
They were banging on about herd mmunity all week

https://mobile.twitter.com/g_gosden/status/1238364767728828416

Then on Friday other countries started closing schools and the UK started receiving criticism.
The UK only has 4000 ICU beds .
It is missing 40,000 nurses. Johnson promised to fix this.

https://youtu.be/wvZEvToplZE

It doesn't look good with 800 infected
How many years does it take to train a nurse?

I'm no fan of Boris but feck sake he'll hardly can't be blamed for that
Maybe not Boris directly, but the tories as a whole are 100% responsible for the lack of nurses, and as their leader he carrys the can.

He said he's promised to fix it, lets see how many nurses are qualified in the next 3/4 years and I'll agree, the tories are c***ts but thats a different matter entirely  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 08:35:47 AM
The size and population of Russia and not one case

47 cases so far .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 12:19:14 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 08:35:47 AM
The size and population of Russia and not one case

47 cases so far .


Was looking at that map some on here had linked and there was none, 47 cases then. Very low, what measures have they put in place?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 14, 2020, 12:21:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 12:19:14 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 08:35:47 AM
The size and population of Russia and not one case

47 cases so far .


Was looking at that map some on here had linked and there was none, 47 cases then. Very low, what measures have they put in place?
Is it measures or lack of testing? No testing, no confirmed cases 🙈🙉🙊
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 12:27:03 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 14, 2020, 12:21:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 12:19:14 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 08:35:47 AM
The size and population of Russia and not one case

47 cases so far .


Was looking at that map some on here had linked and there was none, 47 cases then. Very low, what measures have they put in place?
Is it measures or lack of testing? No testing, no confirmed cases 🙈🙉🙊

That too I suppose.

bored silly! No bets today, too lose! I'll end up doing things around the house ffs! Off till Wednesday so box sets will get me through. Not sure I'll head to the club on Tuesday  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on March 14, 2020, 12:55:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 12:27:03 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 14, 2020, 12:21:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 12:19:14 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 08:35:47 AM
The size and population of Russia and not one case

47 cases so far .


Was looking at that map some on here had linked and there was none, 47 cases then. Very low, what measures have they put in place?
Is it measures or lack of testing? No testing, no confirmed cases 🙈🙉🙊

That too I suppose.

bored silly! No bets today, too lose! I'll end up doing things around the house ffs! Off till Wednesday so box sets will get me through. Not sure I'll head to the club on Tuesday  :o

A drink culture of raw vodka could be the key
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 14, 2020, 01:00:19 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on March 14, 2020, 12:55:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 12:27:03 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 14, 2020, 12:21:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 12:19:14 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 08:35:47 AM
The size and population of Russia and not one case

47 cases so far .


Was looking at that map some on here had linked and there was none, 47 cases then. Very low, what measures have they put in place?
Is it measures or lack of testing? No testing, no confirmed cases 🙈🙉🙊

That too I suppose.

bored silly! No bets today, too lose! I'll end up doing things around the house ffs! Off till Wednesday so box sets will get me through. Not sure I'll head to the club on Tuesday  :o

A drink culture of raw vodka could be the key
An experiment you are will to take on?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 14, 2020, 01:06:01 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 14, 2020, 12:21:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 12:19:14 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 08:35:47 AM
The size and population of Russia and not one case

47 cases so far .


Was looking at that map some on here had linked and there was none, 47 cases then. Very low, what measures have they put in place?
Is it measures or lack of testing? No testing, no confirmed cases 🙈🙉🙊

I've seen pics of testing en masse at their airports with anyone showing any symptoms at all being placed in quarantine. They shut their border with China ages ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 14, 2020, 02:18:58 PM
NI trina cheile as DUP align with fruitcake Tories and the more rational Shinners follow developments down South.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-row-over-sinn-feins-u-turn-on-school-closures-as-health-minister-says-nhs-services-in-northern-ireland-must-be-curtailed-39043439.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 14, 2020, 03:57:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2020, 02:18:58 PM
NI trina cheile as DUP align with fruitcake Tories and the more rational Shinners follow developments down South.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-row-over-sinn-feins-u-turn-on-school-closures-as-health-minister-says-nhs-services-in-northern-ireland-must-be-curtailed-39043439.html

This is a seriously high risk game of poker being played out now by the Tories. Frightening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 04:03:17 PM
Was with a lecturer from Trinity yesterday, his classes are closed till September, now I was all for closing schools at the start but 4 months plus A levels and GCSE's to be done, mental.

What's the best fix? Can't have them being looked after by grandparents surely?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 04:09:57 PM
Well here is one for the DUP. In what age bracket are there most protestants vrs Catholics in the north. What age bracket will  have have the highest mortality rates.

It's like Brexit, following the Tories blindly as it's the British thing to do even though its completely against their interests. Those interests this time of course are everyone's interests. I can't believe what the Brits are at.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 14, 2020, 04:19:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 04:03:17 PM
Was with a lecturer from Trinity yesterday, his classes are closed till September, now I was all for closing schools at the start but 4 months plus A levels and GCSE's to be done, mental.

What's the best fix? Can't have them being looked after by grandparents surely?

I can't see, in the timeframe, any exams being completed this year.
What will happen? Repeat the year perhaps???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 04:36:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 14, 2020, 04:19:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 04:03:17 PM
Was with a lecturer from Trinity yesterday, his classes are closed till September, now I was all for closing schools at the start but 4 months plus A levels and GCSE's to be done, mental.

What's the best fix? Can't have them being looked after by grandparents surely?

I can't see, in the timeframe, any exams being completed this year.
What will happen? Repeat the year perhaps???

That's madness, whole schools having an extra year group in place? What about the lack of teachers, then it comes back (the Virus)  again in September?

No easy answers, proper cluster f**k
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: redzone on March 14, 2020, 04:39:22 PM
Did I see something about the Cubans having some sort of cure
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Joeythelips on March 14, 2020, 04:48:35 PM
The Dutch have discovered an antibody that works apparently but it has to be properly tested and mass produced which will take the guts of a year, byt which time this pandemic will have run its course. Herd immunity will happen by that stage, that where 80% of the population will have got the virus and there bodies will have dealt with it and given them immunity from future infection. However that means there will be a lot more deaths to come Im afraid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on March 14, 2020, 04:56:34 PM
US travel ban now extended to the UK and Ireland
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: Joeythelips on March 14, 2020, 04:48:35 PM
The Dutch have discovered an antibody that works apparently but it has to be properly tested and mass produced which will take the guts of a year, byt which time this pandemic will have run its course. Herd immunity will happen by that stage, that where 80% of the population will have got the virus and there bodies will have dealt with it and given them immunity from future infection. However that means there will be a lot more deaths to come Im afraid.

Sound. You might just tells what evidence there is to support this herd immunity theory and any real world examples where it worked before.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 14, 2020, 04:59:39 PM
The herd immunity thing is bullshit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 05:03:46 PM
Prediction. Since uk isnt going to test people now we will never know how many people are infected. I bet when people start to die they won't categorise them as Corona victims either. We will never know where this stands in the uk. I'm afraid if north refuses to follow the lead of the republic border may have to be closed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 05:07:34 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 05:03:46 PM
Prediction. Since uk isnt going to test people now we will never know how many people are infected. I bet when people start to die they won't categorise them as Corona victims either. We will never know where this stands in the uk. I'm afraid if north refuses to follow the lead of the republic border may have to be closed.

People are being tested, and if someone shows signs of a cold or flu like symptoms they should isolate, is everyone in the south being tested? Or recommended to self isolate?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 05:53:07 PM
Very worrying times .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 06:00:17 PM
Second death .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 14, 2020, 06:04:48 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 06:00:17 PM
Second death .
And 39 new cases today, 129 confirmed cases in ROI now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 14, 2020, 06:10:57 PM
Trump banning US access from Ireland and UK.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 14, 2020, 06:13:05 PM
Meeting of the North / South Ministerial Council in Armagh today, so that's a start on a joined up response.

https://www.armaghi.com/news/armagh-news/armagh-meeting-hears-cooperation-key-for-ni-executive-and-irish-government-in-coronavirus-fight/104489
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 06:21:35 PM
Italian doctor on sky news , the only way to avoid a health care collapse in your country is to go into lockdown ASAP.

What are we waiting for ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 14, 2020, 06:53:31 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 06:21:35 PM
Italian doctor on sky news , the only way to avoid a health care collapse in your country is to go into lockdown ASAP.

What are we waiting for ?

Also places like SIngapore and Hong Kong have controlled the virus. They have measures in place, but life mostly goes on. No bollix about 'herd immunity' there. Don't ignore it, get some measures in and slow it down.
https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-can-herd-immunity-really-protect-us-133583


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 14, 2020, 06:54:21 PM
This "lockdown" word is getting on my nerves.
What does it entail exactly?
Dairies, food production/processing, chemists, doctors, pharmaceuticals, shops have to keep operating.
Also deliveries to shops etc so haulage has to stay going.
People need some interaction with others especially the many who live alone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 07:05:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 14, 2020, 06:54:21 PM
This "lockdown" word is getting on my nerves.
What does it entail exactly?
Dairies, food production/processing, chemists, doctors, pharmaceuticals, shops have to keep operating.
Also deliveries to shops etc so haulage has to stay going.
People need some interaction with others especially the many who live alone.

I work on a site , a govt project too , 200 plus workers , 38 seater canteen , no hand sanitiser  or paper towel to dry your hands, two turnstiles with fingerprint entry (only put on free spin on Thursday after a massive battle with sc**bag management) . Lockdown to me is closing the gates  of this cesspit for a few weeks .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Crete Boom on March 14, 2020, 07:09:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 14, 2020, 06:54:21 PM
This "lockdown" word is getting on my nerves.
What does it entail exactly?
Dairies, food production/processing, chemists, doctors, pharmaceuticals, shops have to keep operating.
Also deliveries to shops etc so haulage has to stay going.
People need some interaction with others especially the many who live alone.

My Aunt lives just outside Milan and there everything is closed apart from certain suoermarkets, pharmacies and hospitals. You are encouraged to stay at home apart from shopping for food. When you go for food only three people at a time are allowed into her local supermarket. Staff in the supervmarket are wearing glives and masks. People are only going out at most once a day but my cousin and her partner haven't gone out in 2 weeks apart from for food!!
Basically lockdown stops the heroes heading out for a few pints are to the hairdressers or pointleesly going to their rat race office job cause they never miss work!! The only people working are health staff, emergency services, some council workers and people employed in the food supply chain.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on March 14, 2020, 07:31:50 PM
Newborn baby in the UK has it now. But UK are playing it right by waiting, according to Wobbler and Benny
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 07:33:39 PM
The brits are a disgrace but not surprising with that clown at number ten
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 14, 2020, 07:38:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 14, 2020, 06:53:31 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 06:21:35 PM
Italian doctor on sky news , the only way to avoid a health care collapse in your country is to go into lockdown ASAP.

What are we waiting for ?

Also places like SIngapore and Hong Kong have controlled the virus. They have measures in place, but life mostly goes on. No bollix about 'herd immunity' there. Don't ignore it, get some measures in and slow it down.
https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-can-herd-immunity-really-protect-us-133583

Singapore and HK had SARS experience. They are like the Dubs in the all Ireland Final. They know what to do.
The European countries would be more like Ireland at the Rugby World Cup.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 07:42:20 PM
The virus is senior county hurling, Brexit is junior b
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 14, 2020, 07:58:16 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/Tiananmens/status/1238893141341724673
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 08:02:38 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 14, 2020, 07:58:16 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/Tiananmens/status/1238893141341724673

f**king ass holes. The pubs will have to be ordered to close as some people cannot be trusted to act responsibly
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on March 14, 2020, 08:07:47 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 08:02:38 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 14, 2020, 07:58:16 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/Tiananmens/status/1238893141341724673

f**king ass holes. The pubs will have to be ordered to close as some people cannot be trusted to act responsibly

Unbelievable. Selfish pr*cks.

France getting it right though:

www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/03/14/france-to-close-nonessential-stores-including-restaurants-and-cafes-due-to-coronavirus.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 14, 2020, 08:26:49 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 08:02:38 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 14, 2020, 07:58:16 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/Tiananmens/status/1238893141341724673

f**king ass holes. The pubs will have to be ordered to close as some people cannot be trusted to act responsibly

I know. They should be given a good kicking for singing that shite.

Seriously though,you really can't trust people to take this seriously. Assholes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 14, 2020, 08:29:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 11:28:27 AM
He said he's promised to fix it, lets see how many nurses are qualified in the next 3/4 years and I'll agree, the tories are c***ts but thats a different matter entirely  ;D

Sorry, stop.

Did you hear how he promised to "fix it"?

We have X nurses retiring every year.

So I'm going to stop them leaving, and call that an increase in numbers.

So see those 50,000 new nurses? Nah, there will actually only be around 5,000 more nurses than now, its just we aren't at 45,000 less nurses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on March 14, 2020, 08:31:51 PM
The pubs and restaurants need to close but are the government going to help the owners of these places to pay their mortgages and pay their staff ?

Is Italy paying people to not go to work ?  People's health is priority but if they have no income to provide for their family this will become as big a problem.  If it is for a few wks people will get by but if it goes on for months then that will be a bigger issue
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 14, 2020, 08:34:12 PM
Its gonna be 12 months absolute minimum, 18-24 months more likely and 36 months max.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on March 14, 2020, 08:36:24 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on March 14, 2020, 08:31:51 PM
The pubs and restaurants need to close but are the government going to help the owners of these places to pay their mortgages and pay their staff ?

Is Italy paying people to not go to work ?  People's health is priority but if they have no income to provide for their family this will become as big a problem.  If it is for a few wks people will get by but if it goes on for months then that will be a bigger issue

This is a huge issue. Pubs, restaurants have rent, wages to pay, but if they close were do they find the cash from?

Same applies to employees. If their office closes all they are entitled to is social welfare. How are people supposed to meet mortgages, rent, food bills etc when their pay is slashed through know fault of their own
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 08:37:49 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 14, 2020, 08:34:12 PM
Its gonna be 12 months absolute minimum, 18-24 months more likely and 36 months max.

For a start there will be a vaccine in 12-18 months , never heard it will last three years anywhere only from your good self
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 14, 2020, 08:43:47 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 08:37:49 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 14, 2020, 08:34:12 PM
Its gonna be 12 months absolute minimum, 18-24 months more likely and 36 months max.

For a start there will be a vaccine in 12-18 months , never heard it will last three years anywhere only from your good self

There will not be a vaccine in 12 months.

If there is a vaccine in 18 months, it will be by a distance the fastest vaccine ever created. Double that and I feel that a vaccine should definitely be available. Hence 36.

Please pay attention to exactly what is being said when people throw those numbers around.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 08:52:00 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 14, 2020, 08:43:47 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 08:37:49 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 14, 2020, 08:34:12 PM
Its gonna be 12 months absolute minimum, 18-24 months more likely and 36 months max.

For a start there will be a vaccine in 12-18 months , never heard it will last three years anywhere only from your good self

There will not be a vaccine in 12 months.

If there is a vaccine in 18 months, it will be by a distance the fastest vaccine ever created. Double that and I feel that a vaccine should definitely be available. Hence 36.

Please pay attention to exactly what is being said when people throw those numbers around.

I'd say it depends if they can leverage of any other vaccines for similar virus's. It also depends how much of a shit show this is and whether it might be released as an "experimental" vaccine due to the urgency required.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 08:53:36 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 14, 2020, 08:29:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 11:28:27 AM
He said he's promised to fix it, lets see how many nurses are qualified in the next 3/4 years and I'll agree, the tories are c***ts but thats a different matter entirely  ;D

Sorry, stop.

Did you hear how he promised to "fix it"?

We have X nurses retiring every year.

So I'm going to stop them leaving, and call that an increase in numbers.

So see those 50,000 new nurses? Nah, there will actually only be around 5,000 more nurses than now, its just we aren't at 45,000 less nurses.

Why listen to the news when all I need to know is right here
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 08:57:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 14, 2020, 08:43:47 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 08:37:49 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 14, 2020, 08:34:12 PM
Its gonna be 12 months absolute minimum, 18-24 months more likely and 36 months max.

For a start there will be a vaccine in 12-18 months , never heard it will last three years anywhere only from your good self

There will not be a vaccine in 12 months.

If there is a vaccine in 18 months, it will be by a distance the fastest vaccine ever created. Double that and I feel that a vaccine should definitely be available. Hence 36.

Please pay attention to exactly what is being said when people throw those numbers around.

[/https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/11/researchers-rush-to-start-moderna-coronavirus-vaccine-trial-without-usual-animal-testing/

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 14, 2020, 09:05:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 08:53:36 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 14, 2020, 08:29:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 11:28:27 AM
He said he's promised to fix it, lets see how many nurses are qualified in the next 3/4 years and I'll agree, the tories are c***ts but thats a different matter entirely  ;D

Sorry, stop.

Did you hear how he promised to "fix it"?

We have X nurses retiring every year.

So I'm going to stop them leaving, and call that an increase in numbers.

So see those 50,000 new nurses? Nah, there will actually only be around 5,000 more nurses than now, its just we aren't at 45,000 less nurses.

Why listen to the news when all I need to know is right here

Yeah. Some of my best friends are doctors , and good ones at that, and definitely their perspective is very different from what a few on here think.

I saw a good tweet from a doctor saying the best thing you could do is stop reading about it on social media.

It is very bad and there are legs in yet. I can see that board members medical health thread having one or two stories too but there is some nonsense pedalled too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omagh_gael on March 14, 2020, 09:08:23 PM
The virus itself is petrifying but a major worry for me are all those people who lose their income at one time. We've never experienced such a widespread loss of income in our life time. How long before social disorder kicks in? What happens to landlords looking rent? Renters unable to pay landlords etc etc etc

We are all typing on smart devices powered by a global data system that needs power. How far might this thing go in disrupting all aspects of life as we know it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 09:10:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: Joeythelips on March 14, 2020, 04:48:35 PM
The Dutch have discovered an antibody that works apparently but it has to be properly tested and mass produced which will take the guts of a year, byt which time this pandemic will have run its course. Herd immunity will happen by that stage, that where 80% of the population will have got the virus and there bodies will have dealt with it and given them immunity from future infection. However that means there will be a lot more deaths to come Im afraid.

Sound. You might just tells what evidence there is to support this herd immunity theory and any real world examples where it worked before.
Does it not work for measles, mumps, Etc, as well as small pox in the past?
Herd immunity does not mean no one gets it, just that enough people are immune to stop it spreading rapidly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 14, 2020, 09:11:38 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 14, 2020, 08:43:47 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 08:37:49 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 14, 2020, 08:34:12 PM
Its gonna be 12 months absolute minimum, 18-24 months more likely and 36 months max.

For a start there will be a vaccine in 12-18 months , never heard it will last three years anywhere only from your good self

There will not be a vaccine in 12 months.

If there is a vaccine in 18 months, it will be by a distance the fastest vaccine ever created. Double that and I feel that a vaccine should definitely be available. Hence 36.

If there ever was going to be a vaccine created quickly then this is the obvious candidate.
Work has started more quickly then ever was possible before, the release of the genome, computer simulations of its operation etc.

However, hopefully before the vaccine some existing drugs will be found to help with treatment. These could be  approved more quickly. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 14, 2020, 09:20:17 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 14, 2020, 09:08:23 PM
The virus itself is petrifying but a major worry for me are all those people who lose their income at one time. We've never experienced such a widespread loss of income in our life time. How long before social disorder kicks in? What happens to landlords looking rent? Renters unable to pay landlords etc etc etc

We are all typing on smart devices powered by a global data system that needs power. How far might this thing go in disrupting all aspects of life as we know it?

Yep agree with this. Shops need people to stock shelves. Food needs produced. A lot of jobs just can't shut down. Chemists are needed. The doctors and nurses themselves. It is unchartered territory and people stock piling toilet roll in particular doesn't inspire confidence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 09:21:36 PM
Is the health care system in Germany very good? They have a similar amount of cases to France but only eight deaths compared to 91 in France .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 09:22:36 PM
Gardai have closed the orchard pub near stoneybatter for having more than 100 people inside .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 14, 2020, 09:24:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 14, 2020, 09:11:38 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 14, 2020, 08:43:47 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 08:37:49 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 14, 2020, 08:34:12 PM
Its gonna be 12 months absolute minimum, 18-24 months more likely and 36 months max.

For a start there will be a vaccine in 12-18 months , never heard it will last three years anywhere only from your good self

There will not be a vaccine in 12 months.

If there is a vaccine in 18 months, it will be by a distance the fastest vaccine ever created. Double that and I feel that a vaccine should definitely be available. Hence 36.

If there ever was going to be a vaccine created quickly then this is the obvious candidate.
Work has started more quickly then ever was possible before, the release of the genome, computer simulations of its operation etc.

However, hopefully before the vaccine some existing drugs will be found to help with treatment. These could be  approved more quickly.
Yes as it's now a global emergency you'd expect the combined might of the big nations to join forces on this and get their big computers working on sequences etc. Can't imagine anything of note within a year though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 14, 2020, 09:28:12 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on March 14, 2020, 08:31:51 PM
The pubs and restaurants need to close but are the government going to help the owners of these places to pay their mortgages and pay their staff ?


"The Government" is the taxpayer.
Businesses closed means less Revenue. Also means more Social Welfare for the laid off workers.
Banks etc giving mortgage holidays means they'll want bail outs, the Taxpayer won't have the money to do this so will we have banks lending non existent money to Governnents to give it back to banks as bail outs?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 14, 2020, 09:29:19 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 09:22:36 PM
Gardai have closed the orchard pub in swords for having more than 100 people inside .

Great to hear it, some of these places were taking the p|ss completely and making eejits out of any place  turning peope away.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on March 14, 2020, 09:32:48 PM
So the Catholic Church wants schools in the North closed, but they can't make their mind up from one Diocese to the next whether mass is on or not??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 09:33:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 14, 2020, 09:28:12 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on March 14, 2020, 08:31:51 PM
The pubs and restaurants need to close but are the government going to help the owners of these places to pay their mortgages and pay their staff ?


"The Government" is the taxpayer.
Businesses closed means less Revenue. Also means more Social Welfare for the laid off workers.
Banks etc giving mortgage holidays means they'll want bail outs, the Taxpayer won't have the money to do this so will we have banks lending non existent money to Governnents to give it back to banks as bail outs?

So what are you suggesting , profit before people ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 09:37:12 PM
I'm concerned about how someone will pay a mortgage/rent/food/basics over the next few months!

Those on benefits are covered as they have been getting benefits! Will the banks suspend repayments?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 14, 2020, 09:38:22 PM
There's talk of waiving for up to three months from a couple of banks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PMG1 on March 14, 2020, 09:41:02 PM
The Uk figures are not in any way accurate in my opinion, massive cover up happening. I know one couple in England, return from Italy skiing 10 days ago, felt the symptoms, got tested and were told to self isolate for 14 days, they were never and still haven't been given their results though. Today in the SWAH hospital in Enniskillen apparently 1 person has died and another is critical with the virus, not a word of this being reported. Boris will pay for this in the long run but he doesn't care about the long run
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 14, 2020, 09:43:47 PM
Quote from: PMG1 on March 14, 2020, 09:41:02 PM
The Uk figures are not in any way accurate in my opinion, massive cover up happening. I know one couple in England, return from Italy skiing 10 days ago, felt the symptoms, got tested and were told to self isolate for 14 days, they were never and still haven't been given their results though. Today in the SWAH hospital in Enniskillen apparently 1 person has died and another is critical with the virus, not a word of this being reported. Boris will pay for this in the long run but he doesn't care about the long run
Not many facts in that post.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 14, 2020, 09:43:55 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on March 14, 2020, 09:32:48 PM
So the Catholic Church wants schools in the North closed, but they can't make their mind up from one Diocese to the next whether mass is on or not??

Farcical. I live on the Derry Armagh Diocese border and in one chapel mass being said to a totally empty chapel via webcam and 3 miles away a significant enough crowd are in the chapel for Sat night mass. Any wonder people are confused as f**k.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omagh_gael on March 14, 2020, 09:48:34 PM
Feck lads, if you get a chance go to BBC iplayer and watch wuhan, life under lock down. This is scary scary stuff. We all know how hard it hit them but their response was unreal. No way will the West coordinate a response as thorough as the Chinese and they still suffered horiffic deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PMG1 on March 14, 2020, 09:48:47 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 14, 2020, 09:43:47 PM
Quote from: PMG1 on March 14, 2020, 09:41:02 PM
The Uk figures are not in any way accurate in my opinion, massive cover up happening. I know one couple in England, return from Italy skiing 10 days ago, felt the symptoms, got tested and were told to self isolate for 14 days, they were never and still haven't been given their results though. Today in the SWAH hospital in Enniskillen apparently 1 person has died and another is critical with the virus, not a word of this being reported. Boris will pay for this in the long run but he doesn't care about the long run
Not many facts in that post.
Well unless the two nurses I know that are working there today are lying then I may be wrong!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 02 on March 14, 2020, 09:52:51 PM
Quote from: PMG1 on March 14, 2020, 09:48:47 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 14, 2020, 09:43:47 PM
Quote from: PMG1 on March 14, 2020, 09:41:02 PM
The Uk figures are not in any way accurate in my opinion, massive cover up happening. I know one couple in England, return from Italy skiing 10 days ago, felt the symptoms, got tested and were told to self isolate for 14 days, they were never and still haven't been given their results though. Today in the SWAH hospital in Enniskillen apparently 1 person has died and another is critical with the virus, not a word of this being reported. Boris will pay for this in the long run but he doesn't care about the long run
Not many facts in that post.
Well unless the two nurses I know that are working there today are lying then I may be wrong!

The UK figures aren't accurate as they are no longer testing the general population only people hospitalised. Even Boris admitted on Friday that the true figure was up to 10K infected that was when there were 10 reported deaths. Now there are 21 deaths the figure is probably at least 20K. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 14, 2020, 09:57:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 08:53:36 PM
Why listen to the news when all I need to know is right here

Probably because the BBC roll over and have their tummies tickled by the tories.

Did you or did you not know about Boris' creative accounting when it comes to him boosting nurse numbers?

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-new-twist-in-conservatives-50000-nurses-promise
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: DickyRock on March 14, 2020, 09:59:46 PM
I see a couple of schools are making their own decision and are closing in the north

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51881805

Quote

Two primary schools have said they will close voluntarily, the first primary schools in NI to do so.
The two are Lurgan Model Primary School, in County Armagh, and St Scire's in Trillick, County Tyrone.
Lurgan Model said it would close for the week, while St Scire's will close on Monday ahead of planned St Patrick's closures on Tuesday and Wednesday.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 14, 2020, 10:16:29 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 09:21:36 PM
Is the health care system in Germany very good? They have a similar amount of cases to France but only eight deaths compared to 91 in France .

Germany has 25000 intensive care beds with Ventilators
France has 5000
The UK has 4000
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 10:18:11 PM
I believe Medtronic in Galway make most of the world's ventilators,  I hope our government are calling in some urgent favours cos those boys got some grants and tax incentives from us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 14, 2020, 10:21:38 PM
Wonder how many pages this thread will be before shes all over.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 10:45:14 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 14, 2020, 10:21:38 PM
Wonder how many pages this thread will be before shes all over.....

Who knows but we'll all be micro biologists by the end of it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 14, 2020, 11:14:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 10:45:14 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 14, 2020, 10:21:38 PM
Wonder how many pages this thread will be before shes all over.....

Who knows but we'll all be micro biologists by the end of it

Least you will still be here well in with mods after calling me a dickhead a knob a Wally a dick and bringing my kids into your bigotry , yet when I reported this to gaaboard I was banned for 3 days for abusing posters. If this is an old boys club stop anyone but old boys posting, I see you weren't banned, sure its only the flu. 🙄 :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 11:21:23 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 14, 2020, 11:14:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 10:45:14 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 14, 2020, 10:21:38 PM
Wonder how many pages this thread will be before shes all over.....

Who knows but we'll all be micro biologists by the end of it

Least you will still be here well in with mods after calling me a dickhead a knob a Wally a dick and bringing my kids into your bigotry , yet when I reported this to gaaboard I was banned for 3 days for abusing posters. If this is an old boys club stop anyone but old boys posting, I see you weren't banned, sure its only the flu. 🙄 :o

I'm not banned ya wally cause you start it, never been banned and never will and I'll react to knob heads who lose their shit on a discussion board, is that simple enough for you? And you wonder why you're banned and have to change user names
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 14, 2020, 11:23:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 11:21:23 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 14, 2020, 11:14:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 10:45:14 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 14, 2020, 10:21:38 PM
Wonder how many pages this thread will be before shes all over.....

Who knows but we'll all be micro biologists by the end of it

Least you will still be here well in with mods after calling me a dickhead a knob a Wally a dick and bringing my kids into your bigotry , yet when I reported this to gaaboard I was banned for 3 days for abusing posters. If this is an old boys club stop anyone but old boys posting, I see you weren't banned, sure its only the flu. 🙄 :o

I'm not banned ya wally cause you start it, never been banned and never will and I'll react to knob heads who lose their shit on a discussion board, is that simple enough for you? And you wonder why you're banned and have to change user names

So you can abuse with impunity, buy gaaboard a pint from me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 14, 2020, 11:26:24 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:16:16 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 08, 2020, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
Look it is what it is, we all have someone close to us (both parents for me) that fall into the bracket of vulnerability to catching and (heaven forbid) succumbing to a deadly virus earlier than expected, but the doomsday's carry on at the minute is out of or control, let's see it out, bit like brexit  ;)

Didn't realise brexit was killing folk by the hour.

By the hour? How many weeks now? Christmas was 3 months ago? Death rate in Ireland is?

So f**k you Jack I am ok.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 14, 2020, 11:27:27 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 09, 2020, 07:56:57 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2020, 07:46:44 AM
Quote from: AFM on March 09, 2020, 07:30:46 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 11:43:09 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 08, 2020, 11:37:46 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-japan-bar-crawl-spread-gamagori-a9384541.html?amp

Some people...

Seen a video of people spitting on buttons in a lift and sneezing on purpose in a lift, purposely  spreading the virus. Some People are cnuts

Takes one to know one I suppose.

What was your last name in here? Possibly medical/mental  issues  I'd say.

It's just a forum don't get too wound up, none of it is serious, your views won't change anything. Very aggressive as well, are you like that in real life?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:35:28 PM
Just answer the question dickhead

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 09:42:35 PM

Still not answering? You trolled someone about the flu and now you're avoiding a simple question? You're a dick

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 08, 2020, 10:27:18 PM

Just tell me, ya knob

::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 14, 2020, 11:30:18 PM
You fair spiraled to abuse but you must be one of the old boys. :o if this forum and your ability to abuse folk and their mental health makes you feel good you go for it lad. Btw mods here are inept.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 14, 2020, 11:31:52 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 14, 2020, 11:29:24 PM
AFM, it's probably best to forget your personal grievances with posters and just discuss the topic. You are only annoying yourself and will end up banned again.

Do you not see the hypocrisy, it's an open forum with rules or it is a invited group in which case, pardon the pun, lockdown registrations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 11:33:09 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 14, 2020, 11:30:18 PM
You fair spiraled to abuse but you must be one of the old boys. :o if this forum and your ability to abuse folk and their mental health makes you feel good you go for it lad. Btw mods here are inept.

You're inept.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 14, 2020, 11:47:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 11:33:09 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 14, 2020, 11:30:18 PM
You fair spiraled to abuse but you must be one of the old boys. :o if this forum and your ability to abuse folk and their mental health makes you feel good you go for it lad. Btw mods here are inept.

You're inept.

::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 14, 2020, 11:50:17 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 14, 2020, 11:35:42 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 14, 2020, 11:31:52 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 14, 2020, 11:29:24 PM
AFM, it's probably best to forget your personal grievances with posters and just discuss the topic. You are only annoying yourself and will end up banned again.

Do you not see the hypocrisy, it's an open forum with rules or it is a invited group in which case, pardon the pun, lockdown registrations.
I gave up my fight with the mods a long time ago but I draw a wry smile when I see the faithful beaten.

Unaccountable and let mates say what they want, why publish the rules when they don't apply to mates. ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 11:58:57 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 14, 2020, 11:50:17 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 14, 2020, 11:35:42 PM
Quote from: AFM on March 14, 2020, 11:31:52 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 14, 2020, 11:29:24 PM
AFM, it's probably best to forget your personal grievances with posters and just discuss the topic. You are only annoying yourself and will end up banned again.

Do you not see the hypocrisy, it's an open forum with rules or it is a invited group in which case, pardon the pun, lockdown registrations.
I gave up my fight with the mods a long time ago but I draw a wry smile when I see the faithful beaten.

Unaccountable and let mates say what they want, why publish the rules when they don't apply to mates. ::)


I've no mates here, neither have you, so discuss the threads and stop taking in personally, no one knows you or cares.

If I've upset you I'm sorry.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 15, 2020, 12:03:30 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 10:45:14 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 14, 2020, 10:21:38 PM
Wonder how many pages this thread will be before shes all over.....

Who knows but we'll all be micro biologists by the end of it

Well you were complaining about a lack of height on the other thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 12:08:54 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 15, 2020, 12:03:30 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2020, 10:45:14 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 14, 2020, 10:21:38 PM
Wonder how many pages this thread will be before shes all over.....

Who knows but we'll all be micro biologists by the end of it

Well you were complaining about a lack of height on the other thread.

And hair!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 15, 2020, 12:10:21 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 14, 2020, 09:33:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 14, 2020, 09:28:12 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on March 14, 2020, 08:31:51 PM
The pubs and restaurants need to close but are the government going to help the owners of these places to pay their mortgages and pay their staff ?


"The Government" is the taxpayer.
Businesses closed means less Revenue. Also means more Social Welfare for the laid off workers.
Banks etc giving mortgage holidays means they'll want bail outs, the Taxpayer won't have the money to do this so will we have banks lending non existent money to Governnents to give it back to banks as bail outs?

So what are you suggesting , profit before people ?
The check out in Lidl or Supervalu or wherever don't do "the book"....
Like the sign in a pub in the North of the County says "In God we trust,  all others pay cash"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on March 15, 2020, 01:20:58 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 09:10:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: Joeythelips on March 14, 2020, 04:48:35 PM
The Dutch have discovered an antibody that works apparently but it has to be properly tested and mass produced which will take the guts of a year, byt which time this pandemic will have run its course. Herd immunity will happen by that stage, that where 80% of the population will have got the virus and there bodies will have dealt with it and given them immunity from future infection. However that means there will be a lot more deaths to come Im afraid.

Sound. You might just tells what evidence there is to support this herd immunity theory and any real world examples where it worked before.
Does it not work for measles, mumps, Etc, as well as small pox in the past?
Herd immunity does not mean no one gets it, just that enough people are immune to stop it spreading rapidly.

Herd immunity is a thing in that it exists once 80-90% of the population have immunity and therefore there are less people through which the disease can be transmitted. The ones you mention though are artificially created by the use of vaccines. I'm not aware of any instances where this has naturally occurred without the intervention of vaccines; open to correction on that though
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on March 15, 2020, 07:52:22 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 15, 2020, 01:20:58 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 09:10:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: Joeythelips on March 14, 2020, 04:48:35 PM
The Dutch have discovered an antibody that works apparently but it has to be properly tested and mass produced which will take the guts of a year, byt which time this pandemic will have run its course. Herd immunity will happen by that stage, that where 80% of the population will have got the virus and there bodies will have dealt with it and given them immunity from future infection. However that means there will be a lot more deaths to come Im afraid.

Sound. You might just tells what evidence there is to support this herd immunity theory and any real world examples where it worked before.
Does it not work for measles, mumps, Etc, as well as small pox in the past?
Herd immunity does not mean no one gets it, just that enough people are immune to stop it spreading rapidly.

Herd immunity is a thing in that it exists once 80-90% of the population have immunity and therefore there are less people through which the disease can be transmitted. The ones you mention though are artificially created by the use of vaccines. I'm not aware of any instances where this has naturally occurred without the intervention of vaccines; open to correction on that though

Off all the comments on herd immunity this is the closest to the truth. I don't the figure is 80-90%. Typically it's 60-70% but we don't yet know if CoVid19 is going to be typical.

There is no vaccine yet. There doesn't like there will be one for 18 months and we don't know yet if we will be entering the world of seasonal mutations, developing further new vaccines and revaccination.

We don't yet know what will work and without sounding wishing to sound alarmist every course of action looks risky.

At least we are not being told to wear face masks. It's not an airborne virus so unless you are trying to reduce the amount of your own face you touch with your own hand a face mask is as much good as a cotton bud in your left sock
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 08:19:00 AM
Who's paying the bills? When this kicks in and lock down happens, how will workers pay their mortgages?

Will the banks give you a bye ball? I doubt it,  will the government force the banks to do it? I doubt a Tory government will enforce that.

Local business, restaurants, bars, cafe's will shut, hotels will close also. Recession again.

Change the title of the thread to, World Coronavirus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on March 15, 2020, 09:03:41 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 08:19:00 AM
Who's paying the bills? When this kicks in and lock down happens, how will workers pay their mortgages?

Will the banks give you a bye ball? I doubt it,  will the government force the banks to do it? I doubt a Tory government will enforce that.

Local business, restaurants, bars, cafe's will shut, hotels will close also. Recession again.

Change the title of the thread to, World Coronavirus

Most people won't be able to I reckon. Scary times and there's loads of folk out there that still don't realise the consequences of this virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 15, 2020, 09:09:53 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 08:19:00 AM
Who's paying the bills? When this kicks in and lock down happens, how will workers pay their mortgages?

Will the banks give you a bye ball? I doubt it,  will the government force the banks to do it? I doubt a Tory government will enforce that.

Local business, restaurants, bars, cafe's will shut, hotels will close also. Recession again.

Change the title of the thread to, World Coronavirus

Mortgages and utility bills will be suspended on lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 09:14:50 AM
Quote from: clarshack on March 15, 2020, 09:03:41 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 08:19:00 AM
Who's paying the bills? When this kicks in and lock down happens, how will workers pay their mortgages?

Will the banks give you a bye ball? I doubt it,  will the government force the banks to do it? I doubt a Tory government will enforce that.

Local business, restaurants, bars, cafe's will shut, hotels will close also. Recession again.

Change the title of the thread to, World Coronavirus

Most people won't be able to I reckon. Scary times and there's loads of folk out there that still don't realise the consequences of this virus.

There will always be doubters as to the depth of how bad it'll be, I'm not on the scale of doomsday scenario, probably changing that view daily, my parents are the worst case to be in, underlying conditions.

you can only deal with your family in this and take the precautions that are advised, outside of that we'll just have to hope the actual specialists get it right and fast
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 15, 2020, 09:15:22 AM
Asked about the possibility of mortgage payments being temporarily frozen, the country's deputy finance minister, Laura Castelli, said on Tuesday, "Yes, that will be the case, for individuals and households."

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 09:18:25 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 15, 2020, 09:15:22 AM
Asked about the possibility of mortgage payments being temporarily frozen, the country's deputy finance minister, Laura Castelli, said on Tuesday, "Yes, that will be the case, for individuals and households."

Can't see Boris saying that!

Will the army be deployed to ensure people are following the correct isolation procedures?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 15, 2020, 09:22:33 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 15, 2020, 01:20:58 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 09:10:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: Joeythelips on March 14, 2020, 04:48:35 PM
The Dutch have discovered an antibody that works apparently but it has to be properly tested and mass produced which will take the guts of a year, byt which time this pandemic will have run its course. Herd immunity will happen by that stage, that where 80% of the population will have got the virus and there bodies will have dealt with it and given them immunity from future infection. However that means there will be a lot more deaths to come Im afraid.

Sound. You might just tells what evidence there is to support this herd immunity theory and any real world examples where it worked before.
Does it not work for measles, mumps, Etc, as well as small pox in the past?
Herd immunity does not mean no one gets it, just that enough people are immune to stop it spreading rapidly.

Herd immunity is a thing in that it exists once 80-90% of the population have immunity and therefore there are less people through which the disease can be transmitted. The ones you mention though are artificially created by the use of vaccines. I'm not aware of any instances where this has naturally occurred without the intervention of vaccines; open to correction on that though
Good point. I was not differentiating between natural and induced. As there is no vaccine I should have been excluding induced immunity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 15, 2020, 09:27:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 09:14:50 AM
Quote from: clarshack on March 15, 2020, 09:03:41 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 08:19:00 AM
Who's paying the bills? When this kicks in and lock down happens, how will workers pay their mortgages?

Will the banks give you a bye ball? I doubt it,  will the government force the banks to do it? I doubt a Tory government will enforce that.

Local business, restaurants, bars, cafe's will shut, hotels will close also. Recession again.

Change the title of the thread to, World Coronavirus

Most people won't be able to I reckon. Scary times and there's loads of folk out there that still don't realise the consequences of this virus.

There will always be doubters as to the depth of how bad it'll be, I'm not on the scale of doomsday scenario, probably changing that view daily, my parents are the worst case to be in, underlying conditions.

you can only deal with your family in this and take the precautions that are advised, outside of that we'll just have to hope the actual specialists get it right and fast
When you hear of that pub in Stoneyblatter and see the video doing the rounds I begin to wonder if Boris is getting it right. We need a big death toll to get people to take it seriously.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 15, 2020, 09:27:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 09:18:25 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 15, 2020, 09:15:22 AM
Asked about the possibility of mortgage payments being temporarily frozen, the country's deputy finance minister, Laura Castelli, said on Tuesday, "Yes, that will be the case, for individuals and households."

Can't see Boris saying that!

Will the army be deployed to ensure people are following the correct isolation procedures?

Although it's not helpful at all for me to express this at this time but this is the ultimate example of why it is totally nonsensical to have British occupation on the island of Ireland , perhaps it will be one positive out of this horrible situation that even the brits will see its time to f ook off home now .

In the 26 despite the free state army making a statement to deny they were briefed on action that will take place soon , they have been and have fuelled up too since Thursday .

Personally I'd be very anti our establishment political parties but I have to admit they are holding themselves well thus far and have shown genuine compassion for the people they represent imo
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on March 15, 2020, 10:13:41 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on March 15, 2020, 07:52:22 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 15, 2020, 01:20:58 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 09:10:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: Joeythelips on March 14, 2020, 04:48:35 PM
The Dutch have discovered an antibody that works apparently but it has to be properly tested and mass produced which will take the guts of a year, byt which time this pandemic will have run its course. Herd immunity will happen by that stage, that where 80% of the population will have got the virus and there bodies will have dealt with it and given them immunity from future infection. However that means there will be a lot more deaths to come Im afraid.

Sound. You might just tells what evidence there is to support this herd immunity theory and any real world examples where it worked before.
Does it not work for measles, mumps, Etc, as well as small pox in the past?
Herd immunity does not mean no one gets it, just that enough people are immune to stop it spreading rapidly.

Herd immunity is a thing in that it exists once 80-90% of the population have immunity and therefore there are less people through which the disease can be transmitted. The ones you mention though are artificially created by the use of vaccines. I'm not aware of any instances where this has naturally occurred without the intervention of vaccines; open to correction on that though

Off all the comments on herd immunity this is the closest to the truth. I don't the figure is 80-90%. Typically it's 60-70% but we don't yet know if CoVid19 is going to be typical.

There is no vaccine yet. There doesn't like there will be one for 18 months and we don't know yet if we will be entering the world of seasonal mutations, developing further new vaccines and revaccination.

We don't yet know what will work and without sounding wishing to sound alarmist every course of action looks risky.

At least we are not being told to wear face masks. It's not an airborne virus so unless you are trying to reduce the amount of your own face you touch with your own hand a face mask is as much good as a cotton bud in your left sock

I was using 80-90% based on what was previously reported during the measles outbreaks last year although maybe that's higher because measles is more contagious?

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2019/1205/1097125-measles-samoa/

This is a long read but it has some interesting /scary numbers based on what has happened to date in China and what we can expect:

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on March 15, 2020, 10:27:27 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 15, 2020, 09:22:33 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 15, 2020, 01:20:58 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 09:10:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: Joeythelips on March 14, 2020, 04:48:35 PM
The Dutch have discovered an antibody that works apparently but it has to be properly tested and mass produced which will take the guts of a year, byt which time this pandemic will have run its course. Herd immunity will happen by that stage, that where 80% of the population will have got the virus and there bodies will have dealt with it and given them immunity from future infection. However that means there will be a lot more deaths to come Im afraid.

Sound. You might just tells what evidence there is to support this herd immunity theory and any real world examples where it worked before.
Does it not work for measles, mumps, Etc, as well as small pox in the past?
Herd immunity does not mean no one gets it, just that enough people are immune to stop it spreading rapidly.

Herd immunity is a thing in that it exists once 80-90% of the population have immunity and therefore there are less people through which the disease can be transmitted. The ones you mention though are artificially created by the use of vaccines. I'm not aware of any instances where this has naturally occurred without the intervention of vaccines; open to correction on that though
Good point. I was not differentiating between natural and induced. As there is no vaccine I should have been excluding induced immunity.

Is there such thing as natural herd immunity? Say smallpox, it was around for years but no herd immunity developed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dubh driocht on March 15, 2020, 10:35:33 AM
The herd immunity theory is complex and partly based on conjecture. I think it would be useful if all of us on here could persuade people to avoid excessive drinking in public on St Patrick's day. While it may be a challenge, particularly for younger people,  the evidence for the risk of spreading the virus through close contact is clear and proven. All of us will know friends, relatives and club-mates who are planning to go on the lash on Tuesday. The most constructive thing we could do at this point is to minimise the risk and avoid crowds where close contact takes place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 15, 2020, 10:50:37 AM
The more you read from doctors and specialists from areas that have been hit badly ie northern Italy the More I cannot fathom why we are not all in favour of a lockdown, it will lessen the hit surely .





Dr Guaraldi said: "Initially people do not really understand the message. We closed the schools but still people were gathering with one another.

"We had to take extreme measures, for example now you cannot walk near another person, they stop you and tell you, you need to stay at home.

"We need to be clear, the only way to protect against the spread of the epidemic is stay at home and try not to meet other people.















Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 11:15:37 AM
We've put our parents on lockdown, no visitors trying at least to minimise things but we all had testing kits then we'd know where everyone stands
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AFM on March 15, 2020, 11:18:58 AM
Full lockdown is no one visits, leave food and medication ar door, completely impossible for folk with acute issues.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 11:34:15 AM
Cristiano Ronaldo will turn his chain of hotels in Portugal into hospitals to treat people with underlying health conditions who have Coronavirus.

All of their treatment will be FREE as Cristiano himself will be paying for everything including the salaries of the doctors and nurses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PMG1 on March 15, 2020, 11:35:25 AM
Just to back up the argument about inaccurate numbers in the Uk

https://www.impartialreporter.com/news/18306227.i-need-help-isolating-fermanagh-mum-emotional-refused-covid19-test/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 11:36:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 11:34:15 AM
Cristiano Ronaldo will turn his chain of hotels in Portugal into hospitals to treat people with underlying health conditions who have Coronavirus.

All of their treatment will be FREE as Cristiano himself will be paying for everything including the salaries of the doctors and nurses.
I think this has since been removed from the original site so presumably it's not true. Although I wouldn't have been surprised if it was.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 15, 2020, 11:37:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 11:34:15 AM
Cristiano Ronaldo will turn his chain of hotels in Portugal into hospitals to treat people with underlying health conditions who have Coronavirus.

All of their treatment will be FREE as Cristiano himself will be paying for everything including the salaries of the doctors and nurses.

Seems to be true he seems to have become a lot more dead on since he left the theatre of wankers fair play!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 15, 2020, 11:40:04 AM
As if things in the US couldn't become more farcical Trump has pulled something from Father Ted. . .

"Is there anything to be said for another mass??"

Trump declares Sunday a National Day of Prayer amid coronavirus crisis

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-sunday-national-day-of-prayer
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 11:42:46 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 15, 2020, 11:37:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 11:34:15 AM
Cristiano Ronaldo will turn his chain of hotels in Portugal into hospitals to treat people with underlying health conditions who have Coronavirus.

All of their treatment will be FREE as Cristiano himself will be paying for everything including the salaries of the doctors and nurses.

Seems to be true he seems to have become a lot more dead on since he left the theatre of wankers fair play!!

That comes with maturity, and will come for you ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 11:53:23 AM
Randox in Crumlin are producing these kits. No doubt making a tidy profit
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on March 15, 2020, 12:13:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 11:53:23 AM
Randox in Crumlin are producing these kits. No doubt making a tidy profit

In the midst of this , it's a positive that an Irish company is at the coal face of technology trying to combat the virus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on March 15, 2020, 12:38:40 PM
If a country goes into lockdown what does this mean ?  All bars, restaurants and hotels will close but what other industries ?  Shops and chemists will stay open but they will need logistic companies to stay open to deliver supplies.  The logistic companies will need commercial premises to stay open to service and repair their vehicles.  Packaging companies will need to stay open to package the supplies going to the shops and chemists.  The whole supply chain in itself is huge.

If a chemist has a leak will the be able to ask a plumber to come and look at it ?  A joiner to fix a door ?

Where is the line drawn as to who does and doesn't go to work ?  I don't think its just a matter of shutting down the country. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 15, 2020, 12:43:44 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 15, 2020, 11:37:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 11:34:15 AM
Cristiano Ronaldo will turn his chain of hotels in Portugal into hospitals to treat people with underlying health conditions who have Coronavirus.

All of their treatment will be FREE as Cristiano himself will be paying for everything including the salaries of the doctors and nurses.

Seems to be true he seems to have become a lot more dead on since he left the theatre of wankers fair play!!

It's a fake story ffs, why do people swallow every pile of shite they see on social media ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 15, 2020, 12:44:45 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on March 15, 2020, 12:38:40 PM
If a country goes into lockdown what does this mean ?  All bars, restaurants and hotels will close but what other industries ?  Shops and chemists will stay open but they will need logistic companies to stay open to deliver supplies.  The logistic companies will need commercial premises to stay open to service and repair their vehicles.  Packaging companies will need to stay open to package the supplies going to the shops and chemists.  The whole supply chain in itself is huge.

If a chemist has a leak will the be able to ask a plumber to come and look at it ?  A joiner to fix a door ?

Where is the line drawn as to who does and doesn't go to work ?  I don't think its just a matter of shutting down the country.

Of course it's not complete shutdown per se but it's what Italy are doing , ffs if the people on the frontline there are saying it is making a difference and they should of done it earlier surely it's what we should be listening to ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 15, 2020, 12:45:32 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on March 15, 2020, 12:38:40 PM
If a country goes into lockdown what does this mean ?  All bars, restaurants and hotels will close but what other industries ?  Shops and chemists will stay open but they will need logistic companies to stay open to deliver supplies.  The logistic companies will need commercial premises to stay open to service and repair their vehicles.  Packaging companies will need to stay open to package the supplies going to the shops and chemists.  The whole supply chain in itself is huge.

If a chemist has a leak will the be able to ask a plumber to come and look at it ?  A joiner to fix a door ?

Where is the line drawn as to who does and doesn't go to work ?  I don't think its just a matter of shutting down the country.

The truth is there are a million questions like this. If the schools close...? If a pipe leaks...? If the Sewers are blocked...? They will have to be figured out for sure. But the NO 1 question and TOP priority is "How do we slow this Virus down?"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on March 15, 2020, 12:47:58 PM
Where do you draw the line though Larry ?  Who should and shouldn't go to work ?

What is the current situation in Italy ?  Are tradesmen for example continuing to work ?  Their equivalent to civil service still working ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 15, 2020, 12:57:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 11:53:23 AM
Randox in Crumlin are producing these kits. No doubt making a tidy profit

What kits are these now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 15, 2020, 01:02:01 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on March 15, 2020, 12:47:58 PM
Where do you draw the line though Larry ?  Who should and shouldn't go to work ?

What is the current situation in Italy ?  Are tradesmen for example continuing to work ?  Their equivalent to civil service still working ?

My point is we have to do more than we are doing at present , Just had word here this morning my local in malahide is shutting up shop , I welcome this sort of initiative . Drawing the line would be complex but people should be encouraged to cooperate and make sacrifices for the greater good , which might prove difficult when we live in times where there is a lot of selfish narc type characters in society . 

Sites could slow down for example imo, we could have brickes , scaffolders day , plasterers and sparks day etc etc , would all help social distancing achievable on site .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 01:05:26 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 15, 2020, 12:57:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 11:53:23 AM
Randox in Crumlin are producing these kits. No doubt making a tidy profit

What kits are these now?

Just seen one there now, friend works there, getting her husband tested who was in France last week, he'll get his results on Thursday

£120
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 15, 2020, 01:14:04 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/four-people-being-treated-for-covid-19-in-limerick-released-from-hospital-988039.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 01:52:51 PM
Watching Pandemic on Netflix! Scary
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: charlieTully on March 15, 2020, 02:00:24 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/15/epidemiologist-britain-herd-immunity-coronavirus-covid-19
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 15, 2020, 02:14:20 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on March 15, 2020, 02:00:24 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/15/epidemiologist-britain-herd-immunity-coronavirus-covid-19

Ah what would he know. Boris and Arlene have even smarters people than him working for them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 15, 2020, 02:35:36 PM
St Patrick's Day parade took place in Manchester today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 15, 2020, 05:04:13 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 15, 2020, 05:25:08 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 15, 2020, 05:04:13 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/

How do you maintain social distancing in the workplace ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 15, 2020, 05:35:39 PM
Pubs ordered closed for 2 weeks starting tonight
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 15, 2020, 05:40:08 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 15, 2020, 05:25:08 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 15, 2020, 05:04:13 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/

How do you maintain social distancing in the workplace ?

It depends on the nature of your workplace.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 15, 2020, 06:30:59 PM
40 more cases in the 26 today.  More alarming is the 368 deaths in Italy today , this is doomsday stuff .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 15, 2020, 07:00:10 PM
Scary figures alright. Searchin online for some reason behind it eg large % of smokers, elderly population, elderly living with their adult children and so on. Anyone any positive spin on this from an Ireland perspective...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 15, 2020, 07:17:43 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 15, 2020, 07:00:10 PM
Scary figures alright. Searchin online for some reason behind it eg large % of smokers, elderly population, elderly living with their adult children and so on. Anyone any positive spin on this from an Ireland perspective...

No theres only bad news, they have twice as many critical care beds per population than either Ireland or Britain.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on March 15, 2020, 07:18:55 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 15, 2020, 07:00:10 PM
Scary figures alright. Searchin online for some reason behind it eg large % of smokers, elderly population, elderly living with their adult children and so on. Anyone any positive spin on this from an Ireland perspective...

We're an island fairly self sufficent so its alot harder to get here on a large scale compared with mainland europe. Also we are shutting down now rather than China, Italy when at its worst. Only way to stop this is for people to stay home so the virus can't transfer and hopefully dies out, which in fairness is what we are doing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 15, 2020, 07:20:10 PM
Has to be more to the hit on northern Italy , when you read into it perhaps it's the textile industry where there are 4K shops run by Chinese , I haven't a notion of how that factors in but I'm hazarding a guess it would of been a contribution in some form or another .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 07:24:11 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 15, 2020, 07:00:10 PM
Scary figures alright. Searchin online for some reason behind it eg large % of smokers, elderly population, elderly living with their adult children and so on. Anyone any positive spin on this from an Ireland perspective...
There is an infographic in one of today's papers with a breakdown of the underlying conditions. As known/expected; cardiovascular disease, hypertension and respiratory disease accounted for a lot of the deaths, but a significant percentage had diabetes. I haven't seen the latest age breakdown in Italy as it's moving so fast but a few days ago when the total was 803 only 2 of those were under the age of 50.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: stiffler on March 15, 2020, 07:26:10 PM
My guess is that Italy have a lot more cases that are not being diagnosed/reported.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on March 15, 2020, 07:26:31 PM
An Armagh mother taking a High Court case tomorrow to get the schools in the Wee 6 closed:
https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1239262190919716875/photo/1
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 07:27:30 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 07:24:11 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 15, 2020, 07:00:10 PM
Scary figures alright. Searchin online for some reason behind it eg large % of smokers, elderly population, elderly living with their adult children and so on. Anyone any positive spin on this from an Ireland perspective...
There is an infographic in one of today's papers with a breakdown of the underlying conditions. As known/expected; cardiovascular disease, hypertension and respiratory disease accounted for a lot of the deaths, but a significant percentage had diabetes. I haven't seen the latest age breakdown in Italy as it's moving so fast but a few days ago when the total was 803 only 2 of those were under the age of 50.

The two under 50, had they underlying conditions?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 15, 2020, 07:28:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 15, 2020, 07:18:55 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 15, 2020, 07:00:10 PM
Scary figures alright. Searchin online for some reason behind it eg large % of smokers, elderly population, elderly living with their adult children and so on. Anyone any positive spin on this from an Ireland perspective...

We're an island fairly self sufficent so its alot harder to get here on a large scale compared with mainland europe. Also we are shutting down now rather than China, Italy when at its worst. Only way to stop this is for people to stay home so the virus can't transfer and hopefully dies out, which in fairness is what we are doing

Good question Dublin7 - does this virus just 'die out' or what happens to it? Do people get just immune  from it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on March 15, 2020, 07:29:26 PM
Quote from: stiffler on March 15, 2020, 07:26:10 PM
My guess is that Italy have a lot more cases that are not being diagnosed/reported.
As do the UK I reckon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on March 15, 2020, 07:29:59 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on March 15, 2020, 05:35:39 PM
Pubs ordered closed for 2 weeks starting tonight

Can see it being extended to Easter at the very least. Certainly won't be over in a fortnight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 15, 2020, 07:30:57 PM
Quote from: stiffler on March 15, 2020, 07:26:10 PM
My guess is that Italy have a lot more cases that are not being diagnosed/reported.
There's no guessing or suppressing of Information about it, everyone knows it's the case, it's reported on the National  news daily that the real numbers are unknown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on March 15, 2020, 07:35:14 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on March 15, 2020, 12:13:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 11:53:23 AM
Randox in Crumlin are producing these kits. No doubt making a tidy profit

In the midst of this , it's a positive that an Irish company is at the coal face of technology trying to combat the virus

Half of the world's ventilators in acute hospitals are made in Ireland. Medtronic in Galway a huge manufacturer of them. They are absolutely flat out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 15, 2020, 07:48:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 15, 2020, 07:28:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 15, 2020, 07:18:55 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 15, 2020, 07:00:10 PM
Scary figures alright. Searchin online for some reason behind it eg large % of smokers, elderly population, elderly living with their adult children and so on. Anyone any positive spin on this from an Ireland perspective...

We're an island fairly self sufficent so its alot harder to get here on a large scale compared with mainland europe. Also we are shutting down now rather than China, Italy when at its worst. Only way to stop this is for people to stay home so the virus can't transfer and hopefully dies out, which in fairness is what we are doing

Good question Dublin7 - does this virus just 'die out' or what happens to it? Do people get just immune  from it?

The infected don't shed the virus forever. The hope would be to ride it out, with as few as possible passing it on, until it stops spreading like crazy.

Obviously complacency can impede that, as well as the fact that supposedly people are at their most contagious early in the cycle, even before symptom, if any, peak.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 15, 2020, 07:53:16 PM
The figures don't add up, people in the public eye , there have been a massive disproportionate amount when you take in the infected per million of population. Not saying they are feeding us lies , it's just so many are untested
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on March 15, 2020, 07:54:55 PM
https://twitter.com/Narrowthefield/status/1238969032528855041?s=20
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 15, 2020, 07:56:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 07:27:30 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 07:24:11 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 15, 2020, 07:00:10 PM
Scary figures alright. Searchin online for some reason behind it eg large % of smokers, elderly population, elderly living with their adult children and so on. Anyone any positive spin on this from an Ireland perspective...
There is an infographic in one of today's papers with a breakdown of the underlying conditions. As known/expected; cardiovascular disease, hypertension and respiratory disease accounted for a lot of the deaths, but a significant percentage had diabetes. I haven't seen the latest age breakdown in Italy as it's moving so fast but a few days ago when the total was 803 only 2 of those were under the age of 50.

The two under 50, had they underlying conditions?

From various reports I've read from Italy the most shocking thing for me has been that it is not all older people and people with underlying medical issues. There is a significant amount of younger people in ICU units. Don't be under the illusion this is solely limited to older people and those with pre-existing conditions. While they are the most at risk they are definitely not the only ones at risk.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on March 15, 2020, 07:58:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 15, 2020, 07:48:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 15, 2020, 07:28:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 15, 2020, 07:18:55 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 15, 2020, 07:00:10 PM
Scary figures alright. Searchin online for some reason behind it eg large % of smokers, elderly population, elderly living with their adult children and so on. Anyone any positive spin on this from an Ireland perspective...

We're an island fairly self sufficent so its alot harder to get here on a large scale compared with mainland europe. Also we are shutting down now rather than China, Italy when at its worst. Only way to stop this is for people to stay home so the virus can't transfer and hopefully dies out, which in fairness is what we are doing

Good question Dublin7 - does this virus just 'die out' or what happens to it? Do people get just immune  from it?

The infected don't shed the virus forever. The hope would be to ride it out, with as few as possible passing it on, until it stops spreading like crazy.

Obviously complacency can impede that, as well as the fact that supposedly people are at their most contagious early in the cycle, even before symptom, if any, peak.

I doubt that this will die out without the help of a vaccine. Whether it becomes a seasonal thing like flu or not remains to be seen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2020, 08:04:16 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0315/1123356-coronavirus-ireland/

Simon Coveney has said that the Spanish Government has committed to keeping its airports open until midnight on Thursday and will facilitate flights coming from Ireland to take holidaymakers home.

Speaking on the Six One, Mr Coveney said that there were between 20,000 and 25,000 Irish people currently in the Canaries, on the Balearic Islands and in mainland Spain.

The Tánaiste directly addressed those abroad and told them to plan to come home before midnight on Thursday "regardless of how long your holiday was supposed to be".

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 15, 2020, 08:06:07 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 15, 2020, 07:56:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 07:27:30 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 07:24:11 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 15, 2020, 07:00:10 PM
Scary figures alright. Searchin online for some reason behind it eg large % of smokers, elderly population, elderly living with their adult children and so on. Anyone any positive spin on this from an Ireland perspective...
There is an infographic in one of today's papers with a breakdown of the underlying conditions. As known/expected; cardiovascular disease, hypertension and respiratory disease accounted for a lot of the deaths, but a significant percentage had diabetes. I haven't seen the latest age breakdown in Italy as it's moving so fast but a few days ago when the total was 803 only 2 of those were under the age of 50.

The two under 50, had they underlying conditions?

From various reports I've read from Italy the most shocking thing for me has been that it is not all older people and people with underlying medical issues. There is a significant amount of younger people in ICU units. Don't be under the illusion this is solely limited to older people and those with pre-existing conditions. While they are the most at risk they are definitely not the only ones at risk.

Saw something earlier that as of Friday only two of the fatalities in Italy did not have underlying health conditions
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 08:17:30 PM
Watched a good few episodes of Pandemic, if the flu and this happens at same time we are fucked
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 15, 2020, 08:24:55 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 15, 2020, 08:06:07 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 15, 2020, 07:56:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 07:27:30 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 07:24:11 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 15, 2020, 07:00:10 PM
Scary figures alright. Searchin online for some reason behind it eg large % of smokers, elderly population, elderly living with their adult children and so on. Anyone any positive spin on this from an Ireland perspective...
There is an infographic in one of today's papers with a breakdown of the underlying conditions. As known/expected; cardiovascular disease, hypertension and respiratory disease accounted for a lot of the deaths, but a significant percentage had diabetes. I haven't seen the latest age breakdown in Italy as it's moving so fast but a few days ago when the total was 803 only 2 of those were under the age of 50.

The two under 50, had they underlying conditions?

From various reports I've read from Italy the most shocking thing for me has been that it is not all older people and people with underlying medical issues. There is a significant amount of younger people in ICU units. Don't be under the illusion this is solely limited to older people and those with pre-existing conditions. While they are the most at risk they are definitely not the only ones at risk.

Saw something earlier that as of Friday only two of the fatalities in Italy did not have underlying health conditions

In this age of crap diets and obesity, there are a fair few going about who don't even know they have underlying conditions, whether its narrowing arteries or whatever.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 08:26:20 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 15, 2020, 07:56:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 07:27:30 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 07:24:11 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 15, 2020, 07:00:10 PM
Scary figures alright. Searchin online for some reason behind it eg large % of smokers, elderly population, elderly living with their adult children and so on. Anyone any positive spin on this from an Ireland perspective...
There is an infographic in one of today's papers with a breakdown of the underlying conditions. As known/expected; cardiovascular disease, hypertension and respiratory disease accounted for a lot of the deaths, but a significant percentage had diabetes. I haven't seen the latest age breakdown in Italy as it's moving so fast but a few days ago when the total was 803 only 2 of those were under the age of 50.

The two under 50, had they underlying conditions?

From various reports I've read from Italy the most shocking thing for me has been that it is not all older people and people with underlying medical issues. There is a significant amount of younger people in ICU units. Don't be under the illusion this is solely limited to older people and those with pre-existing conditions. While they are the most at risk they are definitely not the only ones at risk.
Let's see some of these reports.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on March 15, 2020, 08:35:37 PM
Tancredi Palmeri Italian football journalist gives a good update on Twitter of the daily crisis in Italy
@Tancredi Palmeri
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 15, 2020, 08:40:59 PM
This is going to be a shit-show in the US where the government doesn't believe in public health and thinks the private sector is good enough to take care of everything. We are about to face a reckoning, and the USA is about to pay the ultimate price for Reagan's "government is the problem" ideology and the sinister market-fundamentalist cult that it evolved into and took over the minds of nearly half the country.

The CDC is predicting between 200,000 and 1.7 million deaths in the USA. I suspect it will be closer to the higher end than the lower end.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bannside on March 15, 2020, 08:42:24 PM
ROI going into complete shutdown mode on Tuesday my contacts are saying. This is escalating quickly. Meanwhile Boris the bulllshitter continues to fiddle!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 15, 2020, 08:52:21 PM
Quote from: bannside on March 15, 2020, 08:42:24 PM
ROI going into complete shutdown mode on Tuesday my contacts are saying. This is escalating quickly. Meanwhile Boris the bulllshitter continues to fiddle!

I wonder if the usual identity politics are going to come into play in the north. Are the unionists going to avoid doing what the ROI is doing and toe the UK party line in order to prove their Britishness? So far it looks like they will.  If so it could mean the fenians will stay at home, the prods will go out on the beer, and by the time this is all over we'll have our nationalist voting majority in the north sooner than we were expecting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on March 15, 2020, 08:56:58 PM
Viruses don't tend to die out when they become endemic. Coronavirudae in particular tend to have a limited immunity so re-infection is common. Maybe because Covid-19 is more pathogenic a local immune response will develop and immunity will be longer-lasting but current evidence would suggest not.

Spanish flu for example did not "die out". H1N1 influenza (Spanish flu strain) currently circulates through the population and is included in every modern flu vaccine. The population at large just developed an immunity and the virus attenuated to less pathogenic variants
to ensure virus longevity.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 15, 2020, 08:59:09 PM
How will it work with illegal immigrants? Particularly in the US?

Is part of the US governments plan to flush out the illegals with this virus? I mean, if they're illegal, they obviously won't have medical insurance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on March 15, 2020, 09:01:24 PM
A primary school in east down has found out tonight that some pupils have got the convid 19 virus. This is going to blow up in Arlenes face very soon. It's a fenian school so maybe she wont be overly worried.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 09:02:34 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 15, 2020, 08:52:21 PM
Quote from: bannside on March 15, 2020, 08:42:24 PM
ROI going into complete shutdown mode on Tuesday my contacts are saying. This is escalating quickly. Meanwhile Boris the bulllshitter continues to fiddle!

I wonder if the usual identity politics are going to come into play in the north. Are the unionists going to avoid doing what the ROI is doing and toe the UK party line in order to prove their Britishness? So far it looks like they will.  If so it could mean the fenians will stay at home, the prods will go out on the beer, and by the time this is all over we'll have our nationalist voting majority in the north sooner than we were expecting.
There is a big big push for school closures here but when they're closed they are staying closed until September I'd reckon. Even teachers I know, who are a lazy shower, don't want to close just yet when they still have content to deliver for critical exams (which may or may not happen). All special needs schools closing in Belfast and no doubt all others to follow suit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 15, 2020, 09:04:29 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 08:26:20 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 15, 2020, 07:56:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 07:27:30 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 07:24:11 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 15, 2020, 07:00:10 PM
Scary figures alright. Searchin online for some reason behind it eg large % of smokers, elderly population, elderly living with their adult children and so on. Anyone any positive spin on this from an Ireland perspective...
There is an infographic in one of today's papers with a breakdown of the underlying conditions. As known/expected; cardiovascular disease, hypertension and respiratory disease accounted for a lot of the deaths, but a significant percentage had diabetes. I haven't seen the latest age breakdown in Italy as it's moving so fast but a few days ago when the total was 803 only 2 of those were under the age of 50.

The two under 50, had they underlying conditions?

From various reports I've read from Italy the most shocking thing for me has been that it is not all older people and people with underlying medical issues. There is a significant amount of younger people in ICU units. Don't be under the illusion this is solely limited to older people and those with pre-existing conditions. While they are the most at risk they are definitely not the only ones at risk.
Let's see some of these reports.

Sorry I didn't keep a detailed log of my reading over this past while just for you. Why didn't you ask me sooner. Go and do a bit of reading up yourself or do you need to be spoon fed everything.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on March 15, 2020, 09:06:00 PM
Quotehttps://www.france24.com/en/20200313-italy-s-coronavirus-death-toll-surges-as-lombardy-region-seeks-tougher-curbs

Watch that video to see the pressure the Italian health service is under. It's telling that they're keeping a child that young on a camp bed.

Whilst a lot of the elderly and people with underlying conditions are dying in Italian hospitals there's is undoubtedly a "sophies choice" going on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 15, 2020, 09:12:19 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 15, 2020, 09:04:29 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 08:26:20 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 15, 2020, 07:56:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 07:27:30 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 07:24:11 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 15, 2020, 07:00:10 PM
Scary figures alright. Searchin online for some reason behind it eg large % of smokers, elderly population, elderly living with their adult children and so on. Anyone any positive spin on this from an Ireland perspective...
There is an infographic in one of today's papers with a breakdown of the underlying conditions. As known/expected; cardiovascular disease, hypertension and respiratory disease accounted for a lot of the deaths, but a significant percentage had diabetes. I haven't seen the latest age breakdown in Italy as it's moving so fast but a few days ago when the total was 803 only 2 of those were under the age of 50.

The two under 50, had they underlying conditions?

From various reports I've read from Italy the most shocking thing for me has been that it is not all older people and people with underlying medical issues. There is a significant amount of younger people in ICU units. Don't be under the illusion this is solely limited to older people and those with pre-existing conditions. While they are the most at risk they are definitely not the only ones at risk.
Let's see some of these reports.

Sorry I didn't keep a detailed log of my reading over this past while just for you. Why didn't you ask me sooner. Go and do a bit of reading up yourself or do you need to be spoon fed everything.

Surely you can substantiate your claim (significant numbers of young folk in ICUs in Italy) with a couple of links? It's a fair request all things considered, no?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 15, 2020, 09:15:40 PM
Heading for lockdown according to texts from cumman
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 15, 2020, 09:20:29 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 15, 2020, 09:15:40 PM
Heading for lockdown according to texts from cumman

I've heard that rumour too but what exactly does it mean and why Tuesday and not today?

ROI is really struggling already. 4 people from my work reported with coughs, fevers on Saturday. All called out of hours doc, were promised call backs but received none. None have gotten tested. At same time a number of rumours from doctors locally that there have been 3/4 confirmed cases.  I live in a rural part of the west. I have to say I wasn't expecting it on my doorstep this fast.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 15, 2020, 09:37:15 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 15, 2020, 10:27:27 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 15, 2020, 09:22:33 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 15, 2020, 01:20:58 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 14, 2020, 09:10:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 14, 2020, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: Joeythelips on March 14, 2020, 04:48:35 PM
The Dutch have discovered an antibody that works apparently but it has to be properly tested and mass produced which will take the guts of a year, byt which time this pandemic will have run its course. Herd immunity will happen by that stage, that where 80% of the population will have got the virus and there bodies will have dealt with it and given them immunity from future infection. However that means there will be a lot more deaths to come Im afraid.

Sound. You might just tells what evidence there is to support this herd immunity theory and any real world examples where it worked before.
Does it not work for measles, mumps, Etc, as well as small pox in the past?
Herd immunity does not mean no one gets it, just that enough people are immune to stop it spreading rapidly.

Herd immunity is a thing in that it exists once 80-90% of the population have immunity and therefore there are less people through which the disease can be transmitted. The ones you mention though are artificially created by the use of vaccines. I'm not aware of any instances where this has naturally occurred without the intervention of vaccines; open to correction on that though
Good point. I was not differentiating between natural and induced. As there is no vaccine I should have been excluding induced immunity.

Is there such thing as natural herd immunity? Say smallpox, it was around for years but no herd immunity developed
I think there is some evidence showing drops in measles and small pox infection rates after big outbreaks but even then we would get nowhere near the critical mass of infections to isolate the remaining carriers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 15, 2020, 10:01:09 PM
https://medium.com/@fergal.reid/predicting-the-impact-of-coronovirus-on-ireland-bff1b6d00d6a

Very worrying
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 10:05:30 PM
Unsurprisingly the Brits seem to be making a balls of their implementation. That blonde cnut has done a runner as usual. They should have daily updates but info is only being drip fed via leaks or paywalled on the Telegraph.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 15, 2020, 10:10:35 PM
Quote from: ardtole on March 15, 2020, 09:01:24 PM
A primary school in east down has found out tonight that some pupils have got the convid 19 virus. This is going to blow up in Arlenes face very soon. It's a fenian school so maybe she wont be overly worried.

If parents didn't agree with the decision to keep schools open you just don't send your kids in, as many have said they are doing, or am I missing something ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 15, 2020, 10:17:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 15, 2020, 10:01:09 PM
https://medium.com/@fergal.reid/predicting-the-impact-of-coronovirus-on-ireland-bff1b6d00d6a

Very worrying

Very clear article, and worrying as you say.
We need to understand what Singapore did right and try and get there, which probably means isolating arrivals if we bring things under control.
The irresponsibe approach from Stormont is very concerning.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: MayoBuck on March 15, 2020, 10:35:49 PM
Is there any truth in those WhatsApp messages of a full shut down from Tuesday? Has anyone heard it from a more reliable source?

It's scary how there's been no let up in Italy yet. They do have a much older population than us (about 25% over 65) so we should be able manage the mortality rate better. Unless the HSE gets completely overwhelmed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 15, 2020, 10:40:49 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 15, 2020, 09:12:19 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 15, 2020, 09:04:29 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 08:26:20 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 15, 2020, 07:56:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 07:27:30 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 07:24:11 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 15, 2020, 07:00:10 PM
Scary figures alright. Searchin online for some reason behind it eg large % of smokers, elderly population, elderly living with their adult children and so on. Anyone any positive spin on this from an Ireland perspective...
There is an infographic in one of today's papers with a breakdown of the underlying conditions. As known/expected; cardiovascular disease, hypertension and respiratory disease accounted for a lot of the deaths, but a significant percentage had diabetes. I haven't seen the latest age breakdown in Italy as it's moving so fast but a few days ago when the total was 803 only 2 of those were under the age of 50.

The two under 50, had they underlying conditions?

From various reports I've read from Italy the most shocking thing for me has been that it is not all older people and people with underlying medical issues. There is a significant amount of younger people in ICU units. Don't be under the illusion this is solely limited to older people and those with pre-existing conditions. While they are the most at risk they are definitely not the only ones at risk.
Let's see some of these reports.

Sorry I didn't keep a detailed log of my reading over this past while just for you. Why didn't you ask me sooner. Go and do a bit of reading up yourself or do you need to be spoon fed everything.

Surely you can substantiate your claim (significant numbers of young folk in ICUs in Italy) with a couple of links? It's a fair request all things considered, no?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-italy-update-young-people-hospital-luca-lorini-bergamo-a9402531.html

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-11/italy-doctors-coronavirus-covid-19-quarantine-milan-health/

https://twitter.com/ohanloncmr/status/1238926074463035392

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 15, 2020, 10:43:23 PM
Day 3 of lockdown here's in Barcelona, first self imposed and then mandatory. Going OK. Astounding to see images from home of crowds in temple bar last night and friends telling me about going to the pub etc. So few people seem to actually what lockdown actually implies. We keep getting asked if we're managing "to get out for walks" and the like.

When the same comes into force in Ireland, both North and South, it'll be "oh aye, we're on complete lockdown. I only brought the kids to see me mummy for half an hour and then we went to the park for a bit before a quick shop and home."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 15, 2020, 10:47:40 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on March 15, 2020, 10:35:49 PM
Is there any truth in those WhatsApp messages of a full shut down from Tuesday? Has anyone heard it from a more reliable source?

It's scary how there's been no let up in Italy yet. They do have a much older population than us (about 25% over 65) so we should be able manage the mortality rate better. Unless the HSE gets completely overwhelmed.

They say it takes 12 days to see if something you try (lockdown) actually worked
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on March 15, 2020, 10:50:46 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 15, 2020, 10:43:23 PM
Day 3 of lockdown here's in Barcelona, first self imposed and then mandatory. Going OK. Astounding to see images from home of crowds in temple bar last night and friends telling me about going to the pub etc. So few people seem to actually what lockdown actually implies. We keep getting asked if we're managing "to get out for walks" and the like.

When the same comes into force in Ireland, both North and South, it'll be "oh aye, we're on complete lockdown. I only brought the kids to see me mummy for half an hour and then we went to the park for a bit before a quick shop and home."

Please explain what a lock down in Barcelona entails. Food, critical services,  non critical workers ( do they get paid), do you need documentation to go out side etc
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 15, 2020, 10:59:24 PM
Allowed out of the house to:

Buy food
Buy pharmaceutical products
Go to work if unable to work from home
Attend medical appointments
Look after other sick/elderly/infirm people

No documentation but on the spot fines up to 2K can and have been handed out.

Dunno how you expect me to answer questions about people getting paid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on March 15, 2020, 11:23:34 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on March 15, 2020, 10:35:49 PM
Is there any truth in those WhatsApp messages of a full shut down from Tuesday? Has anyone heard it from a more reliable source?

It's scary how there's been no let up in Italy yet. They do have a much older population than us (about 25% over 65) so we should be able manage the mortality rate better. Unless the HSE gets completely overwhelmed.

Good explanation of the numbers here - basically the effects of full lockdown takes time to show in the numbers (because of the incubation period) but it does work

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 11:29:52 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 15, 2020, 11:23:34 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on March 15, 2020, 10:35:49 PM
Is there any truth in those WhatsApp messages of a full shut down from Tuesday? Has anyone heard it from a more reliable source?

It's scary how there's been no let up in Italy yet. They do have a much older population than us (about 25% over 65) so we should be able manage the mortality rate better. Unless the HSE gets completely overwhelmed.

Good explanation of the numbers here - basically the effects of full lockdown takes time to show in the numbers (because of the incubation period) but it does work

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

With the amount of experts around now it's astonishing how the board only picked up on this after it started!

I'm jesting of course. I don't know how small, medium and even some big global companies will survive this based on their business!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 15, 2020, 11:43:37 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 15, 2020, 10:40:49 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 15, 2020, 09:12:19 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 15, 2020, 09:04:29 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 08:26:20 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 15, 2020, 07:56:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2020, 07:27:30 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 15, 2020, 07:24:11 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 15, 2020, 07:00:10 PM
Scary figures alright. Searchin online for some reason behind it eg large % of smokers, elderly population, elderly living with their adult children and so on. Anyone any positive spin on this from an Ireland perspective...
There is an infographic in one of today's papers with a breakdown of the underlying conditions. As known/expected; cardiovascular disease, hypertension and respiratory disease accounted for a lot of the deaths, but a significant percentage had diabetes. I haven't seen the latest age breakdown in Italy as it's moving so fast but a few days ago when the total was 803 only 2 of those were under the age of 50.

The two under 50, had they underlying conditions?

From various reports I've read from Italy the most shocking thing for me has been that it is not all older people and people with underlying medical issues. There is a significant amount of younger people in ICU units. Don't be under the illusion this is solely limited to older people and those with pre-existing conditions. While they are the most at risk they are definitely not the only ones at risk.
Let's see some of these reports.

Sorry I didn't keep a detailed log of my reading over this past while just for you. Why didn't you ask me sooner. Go and do a bit of reading up yourself or do you need to be spoon fed everything.

Surely you can substantiate your claim (significant numbers of young folk in ICUs in Italy) with a couple of links? It's a fair request all things considered, no?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-italy-update-young-people-hospital-luca-lorini-bergamo-a9402531.html

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-11/italy-doctors-coronavirus-covid-19-quarantine-milan-health/

https://twitter.com/ohanloncmr/status/1238926074463035392

Thanks.. Doesn't make for great reading.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 15, 2020, 11:48:52 PM
Has anyone heard the recording of yer man whose mate works at Europcar? HSE / Gardai / defense forces have had a meeting. It's all under wraps for now to prevent panic-buying. They've been buying vehicles instead of leasing them because they reckon this is going to last more than three months. Come Tuesday morning there's to be an address to the nation initiating a 2-week lockdown.

Yer man: "What exactly does lockdown mean?"
Defense forces fella: "It means you don't f**ing leave your house."

Army will be on the streets to deter looting and curfew-breaking.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: MayoBuck on March 15, 2020, 11:51:22 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 15, 2020, 11:48:52 PM
Has anyone heard the recording of yer man whose mate works at Europcar? HSE / Gardai / defense forces have had a meeting. It's all under wraps for now to prevent panic-buying. They've been buying vehicles instead of leasing them because they reckon this is going to last more than three months. Come Tuesday morning there's to be an address to the nation initiating a 2-week lockdown.

Yer man: "What exactly does lockdown mean?"
Defense forces fella: "It means you don't f**ing leave your house."

Army will be on the streets to deter looting and curfew-breaking.

Yes, that's the recording I got. Seemed very elaborate to be bullshit but who knows.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 16, 2020, 12:45:55 AM
Following this thread is doing my blood pressure no good.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 16, 2020, 01:00:03 AM
Some right àrs~holes here
https://twitter.com/gearoidmurphy_/status/1239337633882529792?s=19
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 01:03:08 AM
I see you and I raise you:
https://twitter.com/drantbradley/status/1239325741386432513

A pastor in Florida keeps his megachurch open, encourages people to mingle and shake hands, and pledges to keep bible study classes going because they're "revivalists not pansies." This could wipe a significant portion of Florida's population out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: haranguerer on March 16, 2020, 09:07:48 AM
Quote from: MayoBuck on March 15, 2020, 11:51:22 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 15, 2020, 11:48:52 PM
Has anyone heard the recording of yer man whose mate works at Europcar? HSE / Gardai / defense forces have had a meeting. It's all under wraps for now to prevent panic-buying. They've been buying vehicles instead of leasing them because they reckon this is going to last more than three months. Come Tuesday morning there's to be an address to the nation initiating a 2-week lockdown.

Yer man: "What exactly does lockdown mean?"
Defense forces fella: "It means you don't f**ing leave your house."

Army will be on the streets to deter looting and curfew-breaking.

Yes, that's the recording I got. Seemed very elaborate to be bullshit but who knows.

Def bullshit
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 09:18:49 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 01:03:08 AM
I see you and I raise you:
https://twitter.com/drantbradley/status/1239325741386432513

A pastor in Florida keeps his megachurch open, encourages people to mingle and shake hands, and pledges to keep bible study classes going because they're "revivalists not pansies." This could wipe a significant portion of Florida's population out.

Darwin Awards.

Well, they won't be around to vote for The Donald in the next election.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on March 16, 2020, 09:30:32 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 16, 2020, 09:07:48 AM
Quote from: MayoBuck on March 15, 2020, 11:51:22 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 15, 2020, 11:48:52 PM
Has anyone heard the recording of yer man whose mate works at Europcar? HSE / Gardai / defense forces have had a meeting. It's all under wraps for now to prevent panic-buying. They've been buying vehicles instead of leasing them because they reckon this is going to last more than three months. Come Tuesday morning there's to be an address to the nation initiating a 2-week lockdown.

Yer man: "What exactly does lockdown mean?"
Defense forces fella: "It means you don't f**ing leave your house."

Army will be on the streets to deter looting and curfew-breaking.

Yes, that's the recording I got. Seemed very elaborate to be bullshit but who knows.

Def bullshit

I've a mate working in Cathal Brugha barracks and he said its rubbish
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hardy on March 16, 2020, 09:33:02 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 01:03:08 AM
I see you and I raise you:
https://twitter.com/drantbradley/status/1239325741386432513

A pastor in Florida keeps his megachurch open, encourages people to mingle and shake hands, and pledges to keep bible study classes going because they're "revivalists not pansies." This could wipe a significant portion of Florida's population out.

Lock him up, ffs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hardy on March 16, 2020, 09:39:27 AM
The most accurate description of the situation and clearest presentation of the essential message I've seen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hks6Nq7g6P4&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Boycey on March 16, 2020, 09:49:10 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 16, 2020, 09:30:32 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 16, 2020, 09:07:48 AM
Quote from: MayoBuck on March 15, 2020, 11:51:22 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 15, 2020, 11:48:52 PM
Has anyone heard the recording of yer man whose mate works at Europcar? HSE / Gardai / defense forces have had a meeting. It's all under wraps for now to prevent panic-buying. They've been buying vehicles instead of leasing them because they reckon this is going to last more than three months. Come Tuesday morning there's to be an address to the nation initiating a 2-week lockdown.

Yer man: "What exactly does lockdown mean?"
Defense forces fella: "It means you don't f**ing leave your house."

Army will be on the streets to deter looting and curfew-breaking.

Yes, that's the recording I got. Seemed very elaborate to be bullshit but who knows.

Def bullshit

I've a mate working in Cathal Brugha barracks and he said its rubbish

Did u get the pics of the 7 seaters with Garda branding on them?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 16, 2020, 10:24:51 AM
I wonder has Leo been on the phone with Medtronic in Galway to prevent them shipping new ventilators outside of Ireland?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 10:31:16 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 16, 2020, 10:24:51 AM
I wonder has Leo been on the phone with Medtronic in Galway to prevent them shipping new ventilators outside of Ireland?

Arlene, ye want a ventilator? Well, just wait till I get my phone out then I want you to dance a wee jig saying your Irish.

Boris, you want a rake of ventilators shipped? Then get your bunch tae f**k out of Ireland!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 10:51:29 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 16, 2020, 10:24:51 AM
I wonder has Leo been on the phone with Medtronic in Galway to prevent them shipping new ventilators outside of Ireland?

I doubt it, it would totally go against the grain for a FG leader to do that. Led by the Markets.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 16, 2020, 11:02:17 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 16, 2020, 10:24:51 AM
I wonder has Leo been on the phone with Medtronic in Galway to prevent them shipping new ventilators outside of Ireland?

Well the EU has placed a ban on sending medical equipment out of the EU. Not sure where Britain is in that calculation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on March 16, 2020, 11:17:25 AM
Does anyone know where the scientific evidence is behind statements coming from Westminister and Stormont in relation to regarding the closure of the schools and a lockdown for over 70's for FOUR months?  Are they just pulling this timescale out of the air?  China has only four new cases coming from domestic sources after a (draconian) lockdown of approximately four weeks. I'm genuinely confused.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 16, 2020, 11:30:46 AM
Quote from: mackers on March 16, 2020, 11:17:25 AM
Does anyone know where the scientific evidence is behind statements coming from Westminister and Stormont in relation to regarding the closure of the schools and a lockdown for over 70's for FOUR months?  Are they just pulling this timescale out of the air?  China has only four new cases coming from domestic sources after a (draconian) lockdown of approximately four weeks. I'm genuinely confused.

There is no evidence to support the idea that herd immunity would work with Coronavirus as it is a new virus.

The lockdowns won't happen for 4 months or at least they won't if countries take different approaches to travel. China could have easily had the virus spread throughout the country again if they didn't quarantine tourists.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on March 16, 2020, 11:51:48 AM
That's not what I'm getting at. Foster said that they are stalling on closing schools in the north because when they close they will be closed for 16 weeks.  The British Health Secretary said yesterday that the lockdown on over 70s will be coming within "weeks" and when it does come it will be for four months.  When you compare this to what's happening in China and South Korea it doesn't stack up.  I'm not doubting that the next few weeks/months will be tough but is there scientific evidence to justify that the lockdowns on schoolchildren and over 70s for such an extended period?  Are they just trying to focus minds?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 11:57:34 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 16, 2020, 11:02:17 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 16, 2020, 10:24:51 AM
I wonder has Leo been on the phone with Medtronic in Galway to prevent them shipping new ventilators outside of Ireland?

Well the EU has placed a ban on sending medical equipment out of the EU. Not sure where Britain is in that calculation.
GB is outside
NI isn't.
But not until.the end of the transition period I think.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 12:00:18 PM
Ryanair thinks it may have to ground its fleet

https://www.ft.com/content/f5bedb66-51a1-3eb2-a1ef-9ab452acc357

Chief executive Michael O'Leary said: We are doing everything we can to meet the challenge posed by the Covid-19 outbreak, which has over the last week caused extraordinary and unprecedented travel restrictions to be imposed by National Governments, in many cases with minimal or zero notice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 12:02:28 PM
Quote from: mackers on March 16, 2020, 11:17:25 AM
Does anyone know where the scientific evidence is behind statements coming from Westminister and Stormont in relation to regarding the closure of the schools and a lockdown for over 70's for FOUR months?  Are they just pulling this timescale out of the air?  China has only four new cases coming from domestic sources after a (draconian) lockdown of approximately four weeks. I'm genuinely confused.

Well it is not coming from the WHO, and they are the leading experts in the world. The people who deal with pandemics year in year out, SARs, Swine Flu etc etc. This is not the approach they are advising. If I were North of the Border I would be following what we are doing in the South and to hell with the advice from Westminster.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 16, 2020, 12:04:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 12:00:18 PM
Ryanair thinks it may have to ground its fleet

https://www.ft.com/content/f5bedb66-51a1-3eb2-a1ef-9ab452acc357

Chief executive Michael O'Leary said: We are doing everything we can to meet the challenge posed by the Covid-19 outbreak, which has over the last week caused extraordinary and unprecedented travel restrictions to be imposed by National Governments, in many cases with minimal or zero notice.

Good chance airlines could fold by the time this is all over.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 16, 2020, 12:08:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 16, 2020, 11:02:17 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 16, 2020, 10:24:51 AM
I wonder has Leo been on the phone with Medtronic in Galway to prevent them shipping new ventilators outside of Ireland?

Well the EU has placed a ban on sending medical equipment out of the EU. Not sure where Britain is in that calculation.

They're ok JCB have offered to help out.....

Digging graves it seems.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 16, 2020, 12:11:33 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/VivaElReyDeEsp/status/1239211245070422016

Posted without comment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 16, 2020, 12:11:33 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/VivaElReyDeEsp/status/1239211245070422016

Posted without comment.

They should be batton charged off the beach the stupid f**kers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 16, 2020, 12:53:17 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 16, 2020, 12:11:33 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/VivaElReyDeEsp/status/1239211245070422016

Posted without comment.

They should be batton charged off the beach the stupid f**kers.

Wouldn't be surprised if some of our own weren't there
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TwoUpTwoDown on March 16, 2020, 01:08:44 PM
Amidst the madness of all this, you can't help but laugh that Arlene and  co are now "following science"...yet the same crew believe the world was created in only a handful of days. Oh my the irony  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 16, 2020, 01:14:08 PM
Quote from: mackers on March 16, 2020, 11:51:48 AM
That's not what I'm getting at. Foster said that they are stalling on closing schools in the north because when they close they will be closed for 16 weeks.  The British Health Secretary said yesterday that the lockdown on over 70s will be coming within "weeks" and when it does come it will be for four months.  When you compare this to what's happening in China and South Korea it doesn't stack up.  I'm not doubting that the next few weeks/months will be tough but is there scientific evidence to justify that the lockdowns on schoolchildren and over 70s for such an extended period?  Are they just trying to focus minds?

The virus is not going to go away. If you restrict things then you'll manage to keep the hospitals from overflowing, but if you then relax things too much the whole rigmarole would start again, China now has the latter problem.
Schools will be likely be closed until September. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 01:16:01 PM
Quote from: TwoUpTwoDown on March 16, 2020, 01:08:44 PM
Amidst the madness of all this, you can't help but laugh that Arlene and  co are now "following science"...yet the same crew believe the world was created in only a handful of days. Oh my the irony  ::)

I'm surprised Arlene hasn't blamed the 'Homosexuals'
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 01:17:16 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 16, 2020, 12:53:17 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 16, 2020, 12:11:33 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/VivaElReyDeEsp/status/1239211245070422016

Posted without comment.

They should be batton charged off the beach the stupid f**kers.

Wouldn't be surprised if some of our own weren't there

They deserve the same if they are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 16, 2020, 01:17:31 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 16, 2020, 12:11:33 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/VivaElReyDeEsp/status/1239211245070422016

Posted without comment.

They should be batton charged off the beach the stupid f**kers.

It does seem a collection of yobs, but it could be argued that well spaced people on a beach were relatively safe or even that it would be the best place for them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 01:18:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 16, 2020, 01:17:31 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 16, 2020, 12:11:33 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/VivaElReyDeEsp/status/1239211245070422016

Posted without comment.

They should be batton charged off the beach the stupid f**kers.

It does seem a collection of yobs, but it could be argued that well spaced people on a beach were relatively safe or even that it would be the best place for them.

The country is on lock down by order of the government, so unless you are buying food or going to work you have to stay at home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 16, 2020, 01:28:04 PM
Reports coming that France are going into full lockdown for 5 weeks. Only leave the house once a day for shopping with a curfew @ 1800.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 01:28:17 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 12:29:11 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 16, 2020, 12:11:33 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/VivaElReyDeEsp/status/1239211245070422016

Posted without comment.

They should be batton charged off the beach the stupid f**kers.

Off the beach?

Baton charged into deep water and told to fuckin swim home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhailov on March 16, 2020, 01:28:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 16, 2020, 01:14:08 PM
Quote from: mackers on March 16, 2020, 11:51:48 AM
That's not what I'm getting at. Foster said that they are stalling on closing schools in the north because when they close they will be closed for 16 weeks.  The British Health Secretary said yesterday that the lockdown on over 70s will be coming within "weeks" and when it does come it will be for four months.  When you compare this to what's happening in China and South Korea it doesn't stack up.  I'm not doubting that the next few weeks/months will be tough but is there scientific evidence to justify that the lockdowns on schoolchildren and over 70s for such an extended period?  Are they just trying to focus minds?

The virus is not going to go away. If you restrict things then you'll manage to keep the hospitals from overflowing, but if you then relax things too much the whole rigmarole would start again, *China now has the latter problem*
Schools will be likely be closed until September.

China still in lockdown. Limited movement unless necessary , temperature taken when you leave apartment, when you enter shops to get necessities. Risk getting arrested if you break lockdown criteria. Only very domestic virus cases in China - they have and are still in lockdown which started weeks ago
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 01:29:27 PM
Quote from: mackers on March 16, 2020, 11:51:48 AM
That's not what I'm getting at. Foster said that they are stalling on closing schools in the north because when they close they will be closed for 16 weeks.  The British Health Secretary said yesterday that the lockdown on over 70s will be coming within "weeks" and when it does come it will be for four months.  When you compare this to what's happening in China and South Korea it doesn't stack up. 

Indeed. Within weeks will be far too late.


Quote from: mackers on March 16, 2020, 11:51:48 AM
I'm not doubting that the next few weeks/months will be tough but is there scientific evidence to justify that the lockdowns on schoolchildren and over 70s for such an extended period?  Are they just trying to focus minds?

Yes. Look at the spanish flu.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 01:42:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 01:16:01 PM
Quote from: TwoUpTwoDown on March 16, 2020, 01:08:44 PM
Amidst the madness of all this, you can't help but laugh that Arlene and  co are now "following science"...yet the same crew believe the world was created in only a handful of days. Oh my the irony  ::)

I'm surprised Arlene hasn't blamed the 'Homosexuals'
In the old days in Europe "the Jews" would have been blamed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 01:44:28 PM

   https://www.ft.com/content/30a3a26e-674f-11ea-800d-da70cff6e4d3

   The airline industry is warning that it must shed jobs and obtain state support to survive the coronavirus crisis, as carriers around the globe grounded the majority of their fleets and took steps to conserve cash.

In the past 24 hours, United Airlines of the US, IAG — parent of British Airways, Aer Lingus and Iberia — Air France-KLM, easyJet, Finnair, Air New Zealand and Aeroflot all unveiled drastic measures to cut costs after several countries, including Germany and Spain, closed their borders.

Willie Walsh, head of IAG, will postpone his retirement to steer the group through the health emergency. Announcing a 75 per cent reduction in capacity over the next two months, Mr Walsh said there was no guarantee that many European airlines would survive.

"The situation is going to be quite dynamic in the next few weeks," he said. "There are many airlines out there who are severely stressed with little or no cash resources." There was no guarantee that many European airlines would survive, he said.

His comments came as the Centre for Aviation, a respected aviation consultancy, warned that by the end of May most airlines would be bankrupt due to the unprecedented travel restrictions that are being rolled out by governments around the world. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 02:25:25 PM
How many boarders are off work and self isolating?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2020, 02:28:03 PM
Working from home starting today. Will probably have to go in the odd day though. Kids are off school too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 02:31:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 02:25:25 PM
How many boarders are off work and self isolating?

In a factory, have to keep going in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 02:34:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2020, 02:28:03 PM
Working from home starting today. Will probably have to go in the odd day though. Kids are off school too.

But still exposing yourself to others? Not sexually of course  ;)

My point is, that period you're out and interacting with anything that contains the virus you'll bring it home. Surely it's self isolate or not all and be sensible when out (wash hands no touching no sneezing and all the other stuff)

I'm off till Wednesday, it's a fluid situation and our Danish CEO has spoken and said they will look after us, I don't see how they will if some of the experts on here think 18 months before getting on with our lives again
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 02:41:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 02:34:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2020, 02:28:03 PM
Working from home starting today. Will probably have to go in the odd day though. Kids are off school too.

But still exposing yourself to others? Not sexually of course  ;)

My point is, that period you're out and interacting with anything that contains the virus you'll bring it home. Surely it's self isolate or not all and be sensible when out (wash hands no touching no sneezing and all the other stuff)

I'm off till Wednesday, it's a fluid situation and our Danish CEO has spoken and said they will look after us, I don't see how they will if some of the experts on here think 18 months before getting on with our lives again

In our place we are implementing a strict 2m distance from others. It is bizarre to look at. We have procedures for constant hand washing, sanitising etc. Its like working in a bubble. Thats how we can justify keeping running. Its no doubt not idiot proof but we have to make what we make or people will die from a lack of our products. The food industry has to keep going too. Lock down is not 100% everything locked down, it cant be.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 02:31:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 02:25:25 PM
How many boarders are off work and self isolating?

In a factory, have to keep going in.

Unless you're making ventilator machines I'd say get home
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 02:58:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 02:31:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 02:25:25 PM
How many boarders are off work and self isolating?

In a factory, have to keep going in.

Unless you're making ventilator machines I'd say get home

I wish I could lad but no more than nurses and doctors, the people serving us in the shops etc we have to keep going or people will die of other things.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 03:08:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 02:34:49 PMI'm off till Wednesday, it's a fluid situation and our Danish CEO has spoken and said they will look after us, I don't see how they will if some of the experts on here think 18 months before getting on with our lives again

Its like talking with a 5 year old.

18 months won't mean at 17 months and 29 days its full lockdown and at 18 months 0 days its a free-for-all do whatever ye want.

If a perfect lockdown was initiated today, then within 2 months everyone will either be (i)cured and have at least short term immunity, (ii)dead or (iii)not exposed. No lockdown is perfect, so in reality you'll have a continued number of people being exposed and falling ill. The degree of lockdown required depends on whether the health services can cope with that number of fresh illnesses.

Of course, the thing is, the sooner a lockdown is initiated, the much smaller the growth would be - after all - 200 potential lockdown leaks is alot better than 200,000 potential lockdown leaks.  But Bozo and his team of elite fuckwits know best.



Quote"If you have to go outside put on gumboots or stout shoes, a hat or headscarf, coat done up to the neck, and gloves,"
- British government advice for dealing with nuclear war

Nothing has changed. There are still too many ignorant peasants all to willing to fall at the feet of the gentry and laud their intelligence - and snipe at anyone else having the sense to say "this is bullshit".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 03:11:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 02:58:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 02:31:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 02:25:25 PM
How many boarders are off work and self isolating?

In a factory, have to keep going in.

Unless you're making ventilator machines I'd say get home

I wish I could lad but no more than nurses and doctors, the people serving us in the shops etc we have to keep going or people will die of other things.

At this rate I'll have to go back to the tools, 'ain't nothing going on but the rent' "got to have a J O B'
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 03:13:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 02:34:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2020, 02:28:03 PM
Working from home starting today. Will probably have to go in the odd day though. Kids are off school too.

But still exposing yourself to others? Not sexually of course  ;)

My point is, that period you're out and interacting with anything that contains the virus you'll bring it home. Surely it's self isolate or not all and be sensible when out (wash hands no touching no sneezing and all the other stuff)

I'm off till Wednesday, it's a fluid situation and our Danish CEO has spoken and said they will look after us, I don't see how they will if some of the experts on here think 18 months before getting on with our lives again

Just doubling down with your nonsense now MR2.

Still taking the piss out of people who said how serious it was last week
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 03:16:47 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 03:08:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 02:34:49 PMI'm off till Wednesday, it's a fluid situation and our Danish CEO has spoken and said they will look after us, I don't see how they will if some of the experts on here think 18 months before getting on with our lives again

Its like talking with a 5 year old.

18 months won't mean at 17 months and 29 days its full lockdown and at 18 months 0 days its a free-for-all do whatever ye want.

If a perfect lockdown was initiated today, then within 2 months everyone will either be (i)cured and have at least short term immunity, (ii)dead or (iii)not exposed. No lockdown is perfect, so in reality you'll have a continued number of people being exposed and falling ill. The degree of lockdown required depends on whether the health services can cope with that number of fresh illnesses.

Of course, the thing is, the sooner a lockdown is initiated, the much smaller the growth would be - after all - 200 potential lockdown leaks is alot better than 200,000 potential lockdown leaks.  But Bozo and his team of elite fuckwits know best.



Quote"If you have to go outside put on gumboots or stout shoes, a hat or headscarf, coat done up to the neck, and gloves,"
- British government advice for dealing with nuclear war

Nothing has changed. There are still too many ignorant peasants all to willing to fall at the feet of the gentry and laud their intelligence - and snipe at anyone else having the sense to say "this is bullshit".

You've given no information there at all, the 18 months I'd said was the period the real experts believe that a vaccine will be available. It could be ten or 20 months but timescales are given font lose your shit if those times don't happen.

Al the other other stuff the five year olds already know, are you at work?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 03:18:31 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 03:13:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 02:34:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2020, 02:28:03 PM
Working from home starting today. Will probably have to go in the odd day though. Kids are off school too.

But still exposing yourself to others? Not sexually of course  ;)

My point is, that period you're out and interacting with anything that contains the virus you'll bring it home. Surely it's self isolate or not all and be sensible when out (wash hands no touching no sneezing and all the other stuff)

I'm off till Wednesday, it's a fluid situation and our Danish CEO has spoken and said they will look after us, I don't see how they will if some of the experts on here think 18 months before getting on with our lives again

Just doubling down with your nonsense now MR2.

Still taking the piss out of people who said how serious it was last week

When did I post I wasn't taking it serious? Put up a post where I said it's all a hoax or stop worrying it won't happen
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 03:21:28 PM
In terms of a vaccine, and I admit I am no expert, I would be a little more optomistic. I think it is likely that the vaccine wont be hugely different than some other vaccine that may allow them to leverage of old trials. Also, if shit gets bad enough they may ok a vaccine on high risk patients who in turn will effectively become guinea pigs - obviously ethically dodgy grounds but if people are in real danger they may be willing to take the chance. Again - not an expert, just a hunch.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 03:22:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 03:16:47 PM
You've given no information there at all, the 18 months I'd said was the period the real experts believe that a vaccine will be available. It could be ten or 20 months but timescales are given font lose your shit if those times don't happen.

You used the term "experts on here".


Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 03:16:47 PM
Al the other other stuff the five year olds already know, are you at work?

The joys of citrix. Can do it from home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 03:26:10 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 03:21:28 PM
In terms of a vaccine, and I admit I am no expert, I would be a little more optomistic. I think it is likely that the vaccine wont be hugely different than some other vaccine that may allow them to leverage of old trials.

Despite SARS and MERS (both of which are coronavirus), there has yet to be a successful vaccine developed for a coronavirus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 03:28:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 03:18:31 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 03:13:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 02:34:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2020, 02:28:03 PM
Working from home starting today. Will probably have to go in the odd day though. Kids are off school too.

But still exposing yourself to others? Not sexually of course  ;)

My point is, that period you're out and interacting with anything that contains the virus you'll bring it home. Surely it's self isolate or not all and be sensible when out (wash hands no touching no sneezing and all the other stuff)

I'm off till Wednesday, it's a fluid situation and our Danish CEO has spoken and said they will look after us, I don't see how they will if some of the experts on here think 18 months before getting on with our lives again

Just doubling down with your nonsense now MR2.

Still taking the piss out of people who said how serious it was last week

When did I post I wasn't taking it serious? Put up a post where I said it's all a hoax or stop worrying it won't happen

Who mentioned you said it was a hoax?  :o

You are clearly being sarcastic saying the 'experts on here'..........

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 16, 2020, 03:30:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 03:26:10 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 03:21:28 PM
In terms of a vaccine, and I admit I am no expert, I would be a little more optomistic. I think it is likely that the vaccine wont be hugely different than some other vaccine that may allow them to leverage of old trials.

Despite SARS and MERS (both of which are coronavirus), there has yet to be a successful vaccine developed for a coronavirus.

Mind you, work on a SARS vaccine petered out when the disease itself petered out. Medical science has greatly eveloped since then and  this is the  big one, where everyone will be working on a vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 03:38:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 16, 2020, 03:30:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 03:26:10 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 03:21:28 PM
In terms of a vaccine, and I admit I am no expert, I would be a little more optomistic. I think it is likely that the vaccine wont be hugely different than some other vaccine that may allow them to leverage of old trials.

Despite SARS and MERS (both of which are coronavirus), there has yet to be a successful vaccine developed for a coronavirus.

Mind you, work on a SARS vaccine petered out when the disease itself petered out. Medical science has greatly eveloped since then and  this is the  big one, where everyone will be working on a vaccine.

Probably the biggest challenge would be ramping up production of anything that was developed. I'd be hoping the people who make say the flu vaccine could switch over their manufacturing lines. That said I have no idea if that is possible or easy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 03:47:39 PM
Pure coincidence just saw this...

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51906604
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 03:50:58 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 03:28:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 03:18:31 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 03:13:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 02:34:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 16, 2020, 02:28:03 PM
Working from home starting today. Will probably have to go in the odd day though. Kids are off school too.

But still exposing yourself to others? Not sexually of course  ;)

My point is, that period you're out and interacting with anything that contains the virus you'll bring it home. Surely it's self isolate or not all and be sensible when out (wash hands no touching no sneezing and all the other stuff)

I'm off till Wednesday, it's a fluid situation and our Danish CEO has spoken and said they will look after us, I don't see how they will if some of the experts on here think 18 months before getting on with our lives again

Just doubling down with your nonsense now MR2.

Still taking the piss out of people who said how serious it was last week

When did I post I wasn't taking it serious? Put up a post where I said it's all a hoax or stop worrying it won't happen

Who mentioned you said it was a hoax?  :o

You are clearly being sarcastic saying the 'experts on here'..........

So by your definition of me taking the piss I wasn't being serious about this?

The experts on here are limited to what's on news feeds from real experts. Here in lies the problem, so many various predictions on how it's going to pan out, who knows definitively?

Different scales of disaster movie on here!

The simplest thing to do is keep distance and ensure good hygiene. Self isolation if you're in that group of elderly or underlying conditions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: The Trap on March 16, 2020, 04:02:16 PM
What are the chances of Sky and BT reducing the monthly bills to reflect there being no sport? Or will we all have to ring individually and hold for ages!!!!
Could be a case of every penny counts.
What about other bills:
Mortgage
Rates
Loan payments
Car payments
Household Bills
Any chance of any of those being put on hold?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Joeythelips on March 16, 2020, 04:27:53 PM
Quote from: The Trap on March 16, 2020, 04:02:16 PM
What are the chances of Sky and BT reducing the monthly bills to reflect there being no sport? Or will we all have to ring individually and hold for ages!!!!
Could be a case of every penny counts.
What about other bills:
Mortgage
Rates
Loan payments
Car payments
Household Bills
Any chance of any of those being put on hold?

I think every person and company should do their bit as people will get badly squeezed by this crisis. Surly something like mortgage freezes and interest only payments on other forms of credit. Things like this would go a long way to ease peoples minds and stop the panic. I see Virgin Air have told their staff to take 8 weeks unpaid leave, who the hell can afford to do that if they have a mortgage and other bills.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: An Watcher on March 16, 2020, 04:48:06 PM
Some leisure centres open, some closed, wtf?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 16, 2020, 05:09:31 PM
Italy warning it will be forced to let anyone over 80 years old just die . This is starting to get stomach churning thinking about it . Times like this I wish I believed in a man in the sky .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 05:13:24 PM
Medical advisor from UK on now bbc. Not saying anything different, London is further on than rest of Britain.

Social distancing is the main topic. Still haven't taken any proper measures of enforcement

Tested 44,000 2,000 tested positive, 60 million in Britain!

No test kits available to show if someone had it and none or minor illness from it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 05:34:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 02:25:25 PM
How many boarders are off work and self isolating?

We pulled our little one out of daycare on Friday, she had a fever. We called the doc and described her symptoms, and they asked us to bring her straight to the ER. They kept her in overnight, she had pneumonia. She's back with us now and she's fine, still has a bit of a chesty cough and she's taking antibiotics for it.

The hospital wasn't that busy, probably because so many people are self isolating. Fewer people going out to bars and getting in fights, fewer people playing sports and getting injured, fewer people driving and getting into crashes. I'm glad the place had plenty of capacity. It might not be like that for long, we're up to 114 confirmed cases in this county as of Friday, and there's probably a lot more unconfirmed. We have huge homeless camps in parks and under elevated freeways, I shudder to think what's spreading in those shantytowns.

When I texted my wife on Friday I told her to come home, bring her computer, and don't go back to the office. Her employer won't let her work from home even though there's no reason for her to be sitting in her cubicle doing what she does - all of it can be done remotely. I told her not to go back to the office anyway, f**k those guys. At any rate the docs gave her a sick note so she's officially not working this week, but I've still forbade her to go back to the office come next week.

Over the weekend I stocked up on enough food and supplies to get us through a few weeks in the event of a mandatory lockdown. My employer has shut all of its offices globally and has everyone working remotely.

We're locking ourselves down for the duration.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 16, 2020, 05:35:13 PM
Is Boris pinning his hopes to the UK seeing this out with minimum damage to the economy regardless of anything else so they are best positioned coming out of this to bounce back quicker and negate some of the chaos Brexit will bring.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 05:36:43 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 16, 2020, 05:35:13 PM
Is Boris pinning his hopes to the UK seeing this out with minimum damage to the economy regardless of anything else so they are best positioned coming out of this to bounce back quicker and negate some of the chaos Brexit will bring.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Tories just want to wipe out a generation of old folk to ease pressure on the NHS and pensions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 05:38:05 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 16, 2020, 05:35:13 PM
Is Boris pinning his hopes to the UK seeing this out with minimum damage to the economy regardless of anything else so they are best positioned coming out of this to bounce back quicker and negate some of the chaos Brexit will bring.

Brexit is a nothing, no country will recover well from this. He just dodged a Irish question there!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 05:38:47 PM
The BBC are completely f**king useless:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-51903319

Posted at 16:5416:54
BREAKING
UK 'approaching fast growth part of the virus curve'
Prime Minister Boris Johnson says the UK is approaching the "fast growth part of the upward curve" in the coronavirus outbreak.

He says without "drastic action", cases could double every five to six days.

As a result, the government is asking for people to begin avoiding all unnecessary social contact.



News for you dickheads, the cases have been more or less doubling every 3-4 days since the 3rd of March. That is by your own f**king figures and including after you reduced testing to improve the political optics of it.

Of course, all said without challenge.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 05:46:29 PM
No social distancing in the bbc office, if you look behind the news reader
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 16, 2020, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 05:36:43 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 16, 2020, 05:35:13 PM
Is Boris pinning his hopes to the UK seeing this out with minimum damage to the economy regardless of anything else so they are best positioned coming out of this to bounce back quicker and negate some of the chaos Brexit will bring.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Tories just want to wipe out a generation of old folk to ease pressure on the NHS and pensions.

All last summer we were being told that the 2016 majority in favour of Brexit was now a minority owing to elderly Leave voters dying off.

Now they're telling us that BoJo is killing them.

Go figure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 16, 2020, 05:49:44 PM
I actually think they reduced testing because they don't have enough tests!!!

I'm in the North luckily working from home the school has pulled 3 future days off forward so kids can stay off this week although staff will be in to do work on remote learning. The Education minister has already said when they pull the pin that will be it for the year.

We have a childminder who has 3 kids in the house. Her eldest was on Erasmus in Austria and just arrived back but we sent the kids anyway.

The biggest risk is my father who had a heart attack a year and a half ago and gets regular respiratory issues. We've told him and my Mum we're cutting off contact until the danger is over and they were thinking along those lines anyway so the major issue for us is making sure money keeps coming in and doing all the other things we're being told to do.

Ironically the panic buying is really affecting my business. I export certain pharmaceuticals from Ireland all over Europe and given the surge in Pharmacy activity in Ireland the main wholesalers don't have the capacity to release orders for exporting and obviously have to service Irish Pharmacy first. We're hoping it will calm down but really people need to chill out as everywhere there is a lockdown people can still get to the shops and pharmacy!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 05:49:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 05:46:29 PM
No social distancing in the bbc office, if you look behind the news reader

Too stupid to understand what it means probably.

Perhaps that's the group dedicated to half the non-news shite cluttering up the front page!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on March 16, 2020, 05:50:27 PM
Genocide, eugenics, population cull. Call it what you like, because that's what it is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 05:51:09 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 16, 2020, 05:49:44 PM
I actually think they reduced testing because they don't have enough tests!!!

... apparently they haven't ordered any from multiple sources that could have supplied them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 05:53:57 PM
Randox selling them for £120
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 05:54:14 PM
Italy
March 10: 10,149 cases
March 15 : 20,603 cases

2x

March 10 : 631 deaths
March 15 : 1809 deaths

Almost 3x
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 05:58:12 PM
So 2000 deaths in Italy, is that directly or part indirectly due to poor medical resources?

If the countries had enough medical resources (not vaccines) would this be treatable without crisis?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Joeythelips on March 16, 2020, 06:00:39 PM
Places that take the severest action sooner show they can flatten the curve which saves lives. https://twitter.com/donmoyn/status/1239239417715396609?s=19 (https://twitter.com/donmoyn/status/1239239417715396609?s=19)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 16, 2020, 06:04:33 PM
Was in a packed shop in Derry. Woman persistently coughing in queue behind me, not once did she cover up. I left. You could see people getting angry. People not listening
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 06:05:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 16, 2020, 05:50:27 PM
Genocide, eugenics, population cull. Call it what you like, because that's what it is.

Someone like Dominic Cummings calling the shots at a time like this. Utterly chilling. That man will go down in history along with some of mankind's most sinister characters.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 06:07:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 05:58:12 PM
So 2000 deaths in Italy, is that directly or part indirectly due to poor medical resources?

Poor?

The Italian system is light years better than the NHS!


Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 05:58:12 PM
If the countries had enough medical resources (not vaccines) would this be treatable without crisis?

No - even in areas where resources are not stretched, mortality rate is still near 1%.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 06:08:10 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 16, 2020, 06:04:33 PM
Was in a packed shop in Derry. Woman persistently coughing in queue behind me, not once did she cover up. I left. You could see people getting angry. People not listening

Did anyone challenge her?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 06:17:16 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 06:07:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 05:58:12 PM
So 2000 deaths in Italy, is that directly or part indirectly due to poor medical resources?

Poor?

The Italian system is light years better than the NHS!


Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 05:58:12 PM
If the countries had enough medical resources (not vaccines) would this be treatable without crisis?

No - even in areas where resources are not stretched, mortality rate is still near 1%.

That was a question, have never needed or seen Italy's medical institutions, so I'll bow to you knowledge of it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on March 16, 2020, 06:19:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 05:34:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 02:25:25 PM
How many boarders are off work and self isolating?

When I texted my wife on Friday I told her to come home, bring her computer, and don't go back to the office. Her employer won't let her work from home even though there's no reason for her to be sitting in her cubicle doing what she does - all of it can be done remotely. I told her not to go back to the office anyway, f**k those guys. At any rate the docs gave her a sick note so she's officially not working this week, but I've still forbade her to go back to the office come next week.


Do you live in the 1940s??  ;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 16, 2020, 06:26:03 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 06:08:10 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 16, 2020, 06:04:33 PM
Was in a packed shop in Derry. Woman persistently coughing in queue behind me, not once did she cover up. I left. You could see people getting angry. People not listening

Did anyone challenge her?

No, but it's only sinking into people in Derry last 24 hours, you could feel tension. I probably should have but backed out because she was an older lady
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 06:28:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 06:17:16 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 06:07:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 05:58:12 PM
So 2000 deaths in Italy, is that directly or part indirectly due to poor medical resources?

Poor?

The Italian system is light years better than the NHS!


Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 05:58:12 PM
If the countries had enough medical resources (not vaccines) would this be treatable without crisis?

No - even in areas where resources are not stretched, mortality rate is still near 1%.

That was a question, have never needed or seen Italy's medical institutions, so I'll bow to you knowledge of it
The system in Northern Italy is better than the NHS. They have more ICU beds and more ventilators.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 06:31:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 06:28:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 06:17:16 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 06:07:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 05:58:12 PM
So 2000 deaths in Italy, is that directly or part indirectly due to poor medical resources?

Poor?

The Italian system is light years better than the NHS!


Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 05:58:12 PM
If the countries had enough medical resources (not vaccines) would this be treatable without crisis?

No - even in areas where resources are not stretched, mortality rate is still near 1%.

That was a question, have never needed or seen Italy's medical institutions, so I'll bow to you knowledge of it
The system in Northern Italy is better than the NHS. They have more ICU beds and more ventilators.

Twice as many per population than the UK and Ireland. UK and Ireland are at similar levels.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 16, 2020, 06:40:27 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 06:07:01 PM
No - even in areas where resources are not stretched, mortality rate is still near 1%.

There are always some coronavirus cases that are not tested. They think that mortality in areas with good treatment is probably in the 0.5-0.6% range for all people who get the pox.
However, mortality has increased markedly where the health services have been overwhelmed.

If the thing can be kept below health service capacity, which can be increased a bit, and when doctors fully test all the treatments going, it is probably possible to improve the mortality rate to 0.2-0.3%. Of course, if you let it all hit the health service in early April then 10 times that many would die.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 16, 2020, 06:26:03 PM
No, but it's only sinking into people in Derry last 24 hours, you could feel tension. I probably should have but backed out because she was an older lady

She is the class of person with most to lose if nothing is done.

Quote from: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 06:31:26 PM
Twice as many per population than the UK and Ireland. UK and Ireland are at similar levels.

The health service in Italy did a better job than the NHS, so had older people to get this plague.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 16, 2020, 06:52:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 06:05:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 16, 2020, 05:50:27 PM
Genocide, eugenics, population cull. Call it what you like, because that's what it is.

Someone like Dominic Cummings calling the shots at a time like this. Utterly chilling. That man will go down in history along with some of mankind's most sinister characters.

So it's not Laura Kuennsberg anymore ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 07:06:30 PM
So Boris has said stop non essential travel, close pubs & clubs and socially isolate.

But we are keeping schools open.

What is the actual rationale behind sending kids to sit in classrooms while putting in place the other actions?

Surely the things are absolutely counter productive to each other?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 16, 2020, 07:12:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 07:06:30 PM
So Boris has said stop non essential travel, close pubs & clubs and socially isolate.

But we are keeping schools open.

What is the actual rationale behind sending kids to sit in classrooms while putting in place the other actions?

Surely the things are absolutely counter productive to each other?
I would assume to provide Childcare for the Doctors, nurses, cleaners, Pharmacists, shop keepers, lorry drivers, Police and other Teachers needed to keep society functioning.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 07:13:17 PM
Even worse then HS.

Still, I dont get why schools havent shut - sure if kids carry it and they will definitely pass it on what is the point in doing anything else
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 07:14:35 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 16, 2020, 07:12:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 07:06:30 PM
So Boris has said stop non essential travel, close pubs & clubs and socially isolate.

But we are keeping schools open.

What is the actual rationale behind sending kids to sit in classrooms while putting in place the other actions?

Surely the things are absolutely counter productive to each other?
I would assume to provide Childcare for the Doctors, nurses, cleaners, Pharmacists, shop keepers, lorry drivers, Police and other Teachers needed to keep society functioning.

I see your point but if the kids get it and spread it then the 'Doctors, nurses, cleaners, Pharmacists, shop keepers, lorry drivers, Police and other Teachers' will be catching it from the kids after work.

Then if they cant work it defeats the purpose anyway
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on March 16, 2020, 07:17:34 PM
It's not Johnsons call whether the North closes schools. If the DUP had any cop on they would follow the 26 by closing. Why is she bothered in a crisis what the UK does, at least keep the whole island of Ireland under control.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 16, 2020, 07:20:00 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 16, 2020, 07:08:40 PM
I don't think he has closed pubs and clubs. Says he doesn't need to. He's asked people to avoid them though.  :-\

Think he would have to legislate to close pubs etc
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 16, 2020, 07:21:34 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 16, 2020, 07:15:40 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 16, 2020, 07:12:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 07:06:30 PM
So Boris has said stop non essential travel, close pubs & clubs and socially isolate.

But we are keeping schools open.

What is the actual rationale behind sending kids to sit in classrooms while putting in place the other actions?

Surely the things are absolutely counter productive to each other?
I would assume to provide Childcare for the Doctors, nurses, cleaners, Pharmacists, shop keepers, lorry drivers, Police and other Teachers needed to keep society functioning.
Does the UK differ from other countries in that regard?

NYC used that rationale for a few days until yesterday, when Cuomo finally caved and ordered the schools in the city, Long Island and Westchester closed. A lot of private schools had already closed.

DeBlasio had been concerned about losing healthcare staff if they had to stay home with their kids. And then there's also the fact that the schools provide steady meals and defacto daycare for many poor families that are often dependent on low-income hourly work. More than a million kids in the NYC public school system.

But, he has now closed the public schools through April 20th (the last ten days were Easter break anyway) and says they may not reopen until after the summer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 16, 2020, 07:26:56 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on March 16, 2020, 07:17:34 PM
It's not Johnsons call whether the North closes schools. If the DUP had any cop on they would follow the 26 by closing. Why is she bothered in a crisis what the UK does, at least keep the whole island of Ireland under control.

Have spoken to a reck of parents in the last few days. We reckon they'll be less than 10% of the wains in the local primary school on Wed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 16, 2020, 07:31:19 PM
I work in a healthcare setting which as you can imagine is pure bedlam at the minute.

Got told on the phone today by a member of the public that "its a load of shite and is just a flu". When I pointed out Italy to him he replied "us norn iron people are smarter than Italy".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 16, 2020, 07:31:57 PM
Leo Varadkar in the live press conference reckon 10k to 15k people will have tested positive for Corvid-19 in the ROI within the next month.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 07:32:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 16, 2020, 07:12:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 07:06:30 PM
So Boris has said stop non essential travel, close pubs & clubs and socially isolate.

But we are keeping schools open.

What is the actual rationale behind sending kids to sit in classrooms while putting in place the other actions?

Surely the things are absolutely counter productive to each other?
I would assume to provide Childcare for the Doctors, nurses, cleaners, Pharmacists, shop keepers, lorry drivers, Police and other Teachers needed to keep society functioning.

What they should do - and its so obvious that many other countries are already doing it - is close the schools to all but the children of critical workers.

If your class size drops from 30 to 3, then the chances of one of the 3 getting the virus to pass on is greatly reduced.

Risk isn't eliminated, but its largely mitigated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 07:34:24 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 16, 2020, 07:31:19 PM
Got told on the phone today by a member of the public that "its a load of shite and is just a flu". When I pointed out Italy to him he replied "us norn iron people are smarter than Italy".

Him being a prime example of just how much smarter we are  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 16, 2020, 07:35:40 PM
Are schools closed in Wales/Scotland?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TheOptimist on March 16, 2020, 07:40:01 PM
So now they are throwing pregnant women into the at risk category all of a sudden. My wife is 20 weeks and works in a pharmacy and has been dealing with effers fighting over toilet roll  nappies and calpol the last week.

Add to that her employer a big chain seems to only  be  intent on cashing in unlike some others I've heard off
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 16, 2020, 07:40:09 PM
France going in big

Quote@BethRigby

Macron:
- French borders are closing from tomorrow midday. French citizens will be allowed to come home.
- Companies might not have to pay any tax & govt will guarantee E300bn of loans. 'No single company will go bankrupt'
- ****Gas, elec, water, rent bills suspended****
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 16, 2020, 07:41:19 PM
349 deaths in Italy today .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 16, 2020, 08:07:06 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 16, 2020, 07:32:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 16, 2020, 07:12:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 07:06:30 PM
So Boris has said stop non essential travel, close pubs & clubs and socially isolate.

But we are keeping schools open.

What is the actual rationale behind sending kids to sit in classrooms while putting in place the other actions?

Surely the things are absolutely counter productive to each other?
I would assume to provide Childcare for the Doctors, nurses, cleaners, Pharmacists, shop keepers, lorry drivers, Police and other Teachers needed to keep society functioning.

What they should do - and its so obvious that many other countries are already doing it - is close the schools to all but the children of critical workers.

If your class size drops from 30 to 3, then the chances of one of the 3 getting the virus to pass on is greatly reduced.

Risk isn't eliminated, but its largely mitigated.
That is the sensible way to go about it. Closing schools could be counterproductive but allowing people to keep their children off strikes a better balance. Those that need / have to go out to work are not taken from the work force unnecessarily.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hardy on March 16, 2020, 08:11:39 PM
https://twitter.com/boughsof/status/1239490782861709312
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 16, 2020, 08:12:13 PM
DUP again picking and choosing which bits fit their agenda. Can't wait to see what they make of this science:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2134162-five-things-you-need-to-know-about-dup-politicians-and-science/

Just for the record and for the purposes of balance SF are not much better. They have make a complete clusterf**k of this as well losing any sane argument they had with stupid rhetoric and comments. Not unlike what happened after the GE in the South. However there is far more at stake here.   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 08:16:08 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 07:06:30 PM
So Boris has said stop non essential travel, close pubs & clubs and socially isolate.

But we are keeping schools open.

What is the actual rationale behind sending kids to sit in classrooms while putting in place the other actions?

Surely the things are absolutely counter productive to each other?
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn warned this week that large numbers of people having to self-isolate is "only likely to increase" domestic abuse incidents in the UK.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 08:20:35 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 16, 2020, 08:12:13 PM
DUP again picking and choosing which bits fit their agenda. Can't wait to see what they make of this science:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2134162-five-things-you-need-to-know-about-dup-politicians-and-science/

Just for the record and for the purposes of balance SF are not much better. They have make a complete clusterf**k of this as well losing any sane argument they had with stupid rhetoric and comments. Not unlike what happened after the GE in the South. However there is far more at stake here.

How do you reckon that. Few curse words aside they are the only party in the North talking any sense on this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 08:21:38 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 16, 2020, 07:31:57 PM
Leo Varadkar in the live press conference reckon 10k to 15k people will have tested positive for Corvid-19 in the ROI within the next month.
https://www.ft.com/content/e015e096-6532-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6a68
"The situation in other countries now resembles the situation we were in during the first few weeks of the Sars spread in Taiwan in early 2003," says Prof Su. "You are not ready, you have no experience."
After the Sars epidemic, Professor Su Ih-jen overhauled Taiwan's entire public health system

Early travel restrictions, aggressive testing and screening of contacts and strict quarantine rules have been key. Universal healthcare, clear management structures for the public health response and proactive communication to get the population on board have also helped.  "
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyrone08 on March 16, 2020, 08:26:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 08:16:08 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 07:06:30 PM
So Boris has said stop non essential travel, close pubs & clubs and socially isolate.

But we are keeping schools open.

What is the actual rationale behind sending kids to sit in classrooms while putting in place the other actions?

Surely the things are absolutely counter productive to each other?
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn warned this week that large numbers of people having to self-isolate is "only likely to increase" domestic abuse incidents in the UK.

Didn't really take long for people to see what a utter useless leader Boris is. Ironically it's the poorer ex Labour areas who voted for Boris which will suffer the most. The UK had a chance to lead the way and work closely with Europe which may have aided in the upcoming negotiations but they have completely messed it up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: playwiththewind1st on March 16, 2020, 08:30:33 PM
There was a case mentioned on the ITV News earlier of a man who was hospitalised on 3 March & only died last Friday, on the 13th. What exactly is, or has been, going on? Plus, if it started in China in December, when precisely did the powers that be cop on that it was going to spiral out of control rapidly & why haven't adequate preventitive measures been put in place, long before now? It looks like all these steps that  are now coming in are being put in place way too late.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 08:42:10 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on March 16, 2020, 08:30:33 PM
There was a case mentioned on the ITV News earlier of a man who was hospitalised on 3 March & only died last Friday, on the 13th. What is, or has been, going on?

On that link I posted earlier, average of 17 days from catching it to dieing from it, if you are going to die from it that is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 16, 2020, 08:53:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 08:16:08 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 16, 2020, 07:06:30 PM
So Boris has said stop non essential travel, close pubs & clubs and socially isolate.

But we are keeping schools open.

What is the actual rationale behind sending kids to sit in classrooms while putting in place the other actions?

Surely the things are absolutely counter productive to each other?
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn warned this week that large numbers of people having to self-isolate is "only likely to increase" domestic abuse incidents in the UK.

No offence but I don't think anyone should be listening to Jeremy fckn Corbyn
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 16, 2020, 08:54:20 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 08:20:35 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 16, 2020, 08:12:13 PM
DUP again picking and choosing which bits fit their agenda. Can't wait to see what they make of this science:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2134162-five-things-you-need-to-know-about-dup-politicians-and-science/

Just for the record and for the purposes of balance SF are not much better. They have make a complete clusterf**k of this as well losing any sane argument they had with stupid rhetoric and comments. Not unlike what happened after the GE in the South. However there is far more at stake here.

How do you reckon that. Few curse words aside they are the only party in the North talking any sense on this.

Yes I agree with you on that in terms of their actual message but they need to dial down the rhetoric otherwise it gets lost in the noise of calling people baxtards and dicks on Twitter. This leaves the door wide open for others to distract from it. 

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 16, 2020, 09:07:17 PM
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/no-news-is-good-news-big-brother-germany-cut-off-from-covid-19?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true

This is surreal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 16, 2020, 09:12:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 16, 2020, 08:21:38 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/e015e096-6532-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6a68
"The situation in other countries now resembles the situation we were in during the first few weeks of the Sars spread in Taiwan in early 2003," says Prof Su. "You are not ready, you have no experience."
After the Sars epidemic, Professor Su Ih-jen overhauled Taiwan's entire public health system

Early travel restrictions, aggressive testing and screening of contacts and strict quarantine rules have been key. Universal healthcare, clear management structures for the public health response and proactive communication to get the population on board have also helped.  "

(https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/http%3A%2F%2Fcom.ft.imagepublish.upp-prod-eu.s3.amazonaws.com%2Faf5379b4-63ac-11ea-b3f3-fe4680ea68b5?fit=scale-down&quality=highest&source=next&width=700)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 16, 2020, 09:19:33 PM
54 new cases of the coronavirus have been diagnosed in the Republic today, bringing the total number of confirmed cases to 223.

In Northern Ireland, seven new cases of coronavirus were confirmed today, bringing the total number of cases to 52.

There are now 275 cases of Covid-19 on the island of Ireland.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 16, 2020, 09:24:47 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 16, 2020, 09:19:33 PM
54 new cases of the coronavirus have been diagnosed in the Republic today, bringing the total number of confirmed cases to 223.

In Northern Ireland, seven new cases of coronavirus were confirmed today, bringing the total number of cases to 52.

There are now 275 cases of Covid-19 on the island of Ireland.

Remembering that the two numbers are not comparable, as the North are not testing people who do not require hospitalisation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Joeythelips on March 16, 2020, 09:33:27 PM
This may have been posted already but it's a brilliant read and the visuals give a great indication of how a few people can cause serious damage by not taking proper precautions.   https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 16, 2020, 09:34:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 16, 2020, 09:24:47 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 16, 2020, 09:19:33 PM
54 new cases of the coronavirus have been diagnosed in the Republic today, bringing the total number of confirmed cases to 223.

In Northern Ireland, seven new cases of coronavirus were confirmed today, bringing the total number of cases to 52.

There are now 275 cases of Covid-19 on the island of Ireland.

Remembering that the two numbers are not comparable, as the North are not testing people who do not require hospitalisation.

South testing f**k all too. I know 5 people now waiting on test 3 days, none have received one yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 09:53:24 PM
Santa Clara County, where I live, and five other Bay Area counties have issued a shelter-in-place order.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/california-coronavirus-shelter-in-place-bay-area

It's not quite a curfew, but it's still pretty serious.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 09:58:45 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 16, 2020, 06:19:55 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 16, 2020, 05:34:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 16, 2020, 02:25:25 PM
How many boarders are off work and self isolating?

When I texted my wife on Friday I told her to come home, bring her computer, and don't go back to the office. Her employer won't let her work from home even though there's no reason for her to be sitting in her cubicle doing what she does - all of it can be done remotely. I told her not to go back to the office anyway, f**k those guys. At any rate the docs gave her a sick note so she's officially not working this week, but I've still forbade her to go back to the office come next week.


Do you live in the 1940s??  ;D ;D

I might, but she doesn't. I forbid her from doing a lot of things, but it doesn't always stop her!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: playwiththewind1st on March 16, 2020, 10:12:59 PM
Agency workers being told this evening that if the organisation you are currently placed with decides to shut down, then your assignment is at an end. Thanks a feckin lot, Grafton.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aristo 60 on March 16, 2020, 10:35:55 PM
https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2020/0316/1123611-idris-elba-tests-positive-for-covid-19/ (https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2020/0316/1123611-idris-elba-tests-positive-for-covid-19/)

Even Stringer Bell got got.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: yellowcard on March 16, 2020, 10:49:57 PM
How many lives have the UK government cost already through their inability to take prompt decisive action? Whether it was an attempted power play in aftermath of Brexit, a profit before people approach or simply very poor judgement from their own medical advisors they have lost some crucial days in the attempts to combat and lessen the spread of the virus. Even with the latest instalment of advice which is belatedly welcome, they are sending out mixed messages in terms of restrictions on mass gatherings.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on March 16, 2020, 11:07:02 PM
Quote from: TheOptimist on March 16, 2020, 07:40:01 PM
So now they are throwing pregnant women into the at risk category all of a sudden. My wife is 20 weeks and works in a pharmacy and has been dealing with effers fighting over toilet roll  nappies and calpol the last week.

Add to that her employer a big chain seems to only  be  intent on cashing in unlike some others I've heard off

can you please provide a link? My wife 36.5wks pregnant with our first.
Unsettling times
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 16, 2020, 11:16:57 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on March 16, 2020, 11:07:02 PM
Quote from: TheOptimist on March 16, 2020, 07:40:01 PM
So now they are throwing pregnant women into the at risk category all of a sudden. My wife is 20 weeks and works in a pharmacy and has been dealing with effers fighting over toilet roll  nappies and calpol the last week.

Add to that her employer a big chain seems to only  be  intent on cashing in unlike some others I've heard off

Checked it out for work pregnant women are now officially in the "at risk" category...

can you please provide a link? My wife 36.5wks pregnant with our first.
Unsettling times

It's true I was looking it it for work earlier... Pregnant women are now officially in the "at risk" category

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-on-social-distancing-and-for-vulnerable-people/guidance-on-social-distancing-for-everyone-in-the-uk-and-protecting-older-people-and-vulnerable-adults
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on March 16, 2020, 11:39:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 16, 2020, 11:16:57 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on March 16, 2020, 11:07:02 PM
Quote from: TheOptimist on March 16, 2020, 07:40:01 PM
So now they are throwing pregnant women into the at risk category all of a sudden. My wife is 20 weeks and works in a pharmacy and has been dealing with effers fighting over toilet roll  nappies and calpol the last week.

Add to that her employer a big chain seems to only  be  intent on cashing in unlike some others I've heard off

Checked it out for work pregnant women are now officially in the "at risk" category...

can you please provide a link? My wife 36.5wks pregnant with our first.
Unsettling times

It's true I was looking it it for work earlier... Pregnant women are now officially in the "at risk" category

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-on-social-distancing-and-for-vulnerable-people/guidance-on-social-distancing-for-everyone-in-the-uk-and-protecting-older-people-and-vulnerable-adults

Thanks for that. It doesn't say why they have put pregnancy in that category, but from what I have read elsewhere:
Pregnant women generally have lower immunity
Later stages of pregnancy, lungs can be of reduced capacity to circulate air and more prone to infection
Some evidence that pregnant women are more at risk of similar viruses, eg SARS
Lack of information due to low numbers of case studies leads to conservatism

In short, being in the at-risk case due to lack of information is slightly better than being in the at risk case due to actual reasons (that's what I'm telling myself anyway)

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2237352-coronavirus-what-we-know-so-far-about-risks-to-pregnancy-and-babies/


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 16, 2020, 11:47:48 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on March 16, 2020, 11:39:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 16, 2020, 11:16:57 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on March 16, 2020, 11:07:02 PM
Quote from: TheOptimist on March 16, 2020, 07:40:01 PM
So now they are throwing pregnant women into the at risk category all of a sudden. My wife is 20 weeks and works in a pharmacy and has been dealing with effers fighting over toilet roll  nappies and calpol the last week.

Add to that her employer a big chain seems to only  be  intent on cashing in unlike some others I've heard off

Checked it out for work pregnant women are now officially in the "at risk" category...

can you please provide a link? My wife 36.5wks pregnant with our first.
Unsettling times

It's true I was looking it it for work earlier... Pregnant women are now officially in the "at risk" category

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-on-social-distancing-and-for-vulnerable-people/guidance-on-social-distancing-for-everyone-in-the-uk-and-protecting-older-people-and-vulnerable-adults

Thanks for that. It doesn't say why they have put pregnancy in that category, but from what I have read elsewhere:
Pregnant women generally have lower immunity
Later stages of pregnancy, lungs can be of reduced capacity to circulate air and more prone to infection
Some evidence that pregnant women are more at risk of similar viruses, eg SARS
Lack of information due to low numbers of case studies leads to conservatism

In short, being in the at-risk case due to lack of information is slightly better than being in the at risk case due to actual reasons (that's what I'm telling myself anyway)

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2237352-coronavirus-what-we-know-so-far-about-risks-to-pregnancy-and-babies/

I think you're right it would seem more of a "well being pregnant puts you at high risk for most things" more so than they have noticed a trend so sounds like nothing to unduly worry about.

I'd still be asking your wife to minimise the risk where possible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on March 17, 2020, 12:17:12 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 16, 2020, 11:47:48 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on March 16, 2020, 11:39:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 16, 2020, 11:16:57 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on March 16, 2020, 11:07:02 PM
Quote from: TheOptimist on March 16, 2020, 07:40:01 PM
So now they are throwing pregnant women into the at risk category all of a sudden. My wife is 20 weeks and works in a pharmacy and has been dealing with effers fighting over toilet roll  nappies and calpol the last week.

Add to that her employer a big chain seems to only  be  intent on cashing in unlike some others I've heard off

Checked it out for work pregnant women are now officially in the "at risk" category...

can you please provide a link? My wife 36.5wks pregnant with our first.
Unsettling times

It's true I was looking it it for work earlier... Pregnant women are now officially in the "at risk" category

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-on-social-distancing-and-for-vulnerable-people/guidance-on-social-distancing-for-everyone-in-the-uk-and-protecting-older-people-and-vulnerable-adults

Thanks for that. It doesn't say why they have put pregnancy in that category, but from what I have read elsewhere:
Pregnant women generally have lower immunity
Later stages of pregnancy, lungs can be of reduced capacity to circulate air and more prone to infection
Some evidence that pregnant women are more at risk of similar viruses, eg SARS
Lack of information due to low numbers of case studies leads to conservatism

In short, being in the at-risk case due to lack of information is slightly better than being in the at risk case due to actual reasons (that's what I'm telling myself anyway)

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2237352-coronavirus-what-we-know-so-far-about-risks-to-pregnancy-and-babies/

I think you're right it would seem more of a "well being pregnant puts you at high risk for most things" more so than they have noticed a trend so sounds like nothing to unduly worry about.

I'd still be asking your wife to minimise the risk where possible.

Definitely. We are taking all precautions we can. She's finished work now so that helps.
Don't want the added headache of having Coronavirus (even if it doesn't affect her) and hoping for an isolation room in hospital.

Only place we've been in the last week is supermarket, hospital and work (for me)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TheOptimist on March 17, 2020, 12:39:14 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on March 17, 2020, 12:17:12 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 16, 2020, 11:47:48 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on March 16, 2020, 11:39:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 16, 2020, 11:16:57 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on March 16, 2020, 11:07:02 PM
Quote from: TheOptimist on March 16, 2020, 07:40:01 PM
So now they are throwing pregnant women into the at risk category all of a sudden. My wife is 20 weeks and works in a pharmacy and has been dealing with effers fighting over toilet roll  nappies and calpol the last week.

Add to that her employer a big chain seems to only  be  intent on cashing in unlike some others I've heard off

Checked it out for work pregnant women are now officially in the "at risk" category...

can you please provide a link? My wife 36.5wks pregnant with our first.
Unsettling times

It's true I was looking it it for work earlier... Pregnant women are now officially in the "at risk" category

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-on-social-distancing-and-for-vulnerable-people/guidance-on-social-distancing-for-everyone-in-the-uk-and-protecting-older-people-and-vulnerable-adults

Thanks for that. It doesn't say why they have put pregnancy in that category, but from what I have read elsewhere:
Pregnant women generally have lower immunity
Later stages of pregnancy, lungs can be of reduced capacity to circulate air and more prone to infection
Some evidence that pregnant women are more at risk of similar viruses, eg SARS
Lack of information due to low numbers of case studies leads to conservatism

In short, being in the at-risk case due to lack of information is slightly better than being in the at risk case due to actual reasons (that's what I'm telling myself anyway)

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2237352-coronavirus-what-we-know-so-far-about-risks-to-pregnancy-and-babies/

I think you're right it would seem more of a "well being pregnant puts you at high risk for most things" more so than they have noticed a trend so sounds like nothing to unduly worry about.

I'd still be asking your wife to minimise the risk where possible.

Definitely. We are taking all precautions we can. She's finished work now so that helps.
Don't want the added headache of having Coronavirus (even if it doesn't affect her) and hoping for an isolation room in hospital.

Only place we've been in the last week is supermarket, hospital and work (for me)

I don't know what to think. This is our third so my wife is still doing the school runs, using buses and like I say working in a pharmacy that hasn't even done their statutory risk assessment yet. Off for a few days now so we're going to wait to see what changes in that time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 17, 2020, 12:46:06 AM
We will all tell our grandchildren about this some day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 12:53:10 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 17, 2020, 12:46:06 AM
We will all tell our grandchildren about this some day.

It  has  been 100 years since the last similar and perhaps medical science will learn from this one so that there cannot be another.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 17, 2020, 01:24:43 AM
I fear for the Holylands in Belfast tomorrow. No pubs, no parades. Crowds will descend on the packed streets. It will be a breeding ground for the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 17, 2020, 02:14:47 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 17, 2020, 01:24:43 AM
I fear for the Holylands in Belfast tomorrow. No pubs, no parades. Crowds will descend on the packed streets. It will be a breeding ground for the virus.

Jesus I hope not would like to think the provinces brightest and best would have some cop on and not show up tomorrow!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 17, 2020, 08:52:47 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 17, 2020, 02:14:47 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 17, 2020, 01:24:43 AM
I fear for the Holylands in Belfast tomorrow. No pubs, no parades. Crowds will descend on the packed streets. It will be a breeding ground for the virus.

Jesus I hope not would like to think the provinces brightest and best would have some cop on and not show up tomorrow!

Yeah, that'll be interesting qhat happens there alright.
You'd hope common sense will prevail.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on March 17, 2020, 10:28:37 AM
Have many pubs in the North shut? Its business as usual here in Manchester,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 10:37:04 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 17, 2020, 10:28:37 AM
Have many pubs in the North shut? Its business as usual here in Manchester,

Noticed a couple open when driving through town yesterday notice some  closed, most GAA clubs are closed.

Was chatting to a taxi man this morning, at a point in his week he'd have his outgoings covered and then rest of week is a wage. He's only earned £50! That's not his he's still try to get money up for his depot and car payment!

Over 600 drivers
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 17, 2020, 10:48:21 AM
The imperial college London report very interesting, especially for those interested in school closures & effectiveness

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

Think the Gaa Board technical group will publish theirs in a few days  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 17, 2020, 11:01:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 10:37:04 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 17, 2020, 10:28:37 AM
Have many pubs in the North shut? Its business as usual here in Manchester,

Noticed a couple open when driving through town yesterday notice from closed, most GAA clubs are closed.

Was chatting to a taxi man this morning, at a point in his week he'd have his outgoings covered and then rest of week is a wage. He's only earned £50! That's not his he's still try to get money up for his depot and car payment!

Over 600 drivers

That's crazy.  If he has another 4 or 5 weeks like that, that'll be really tough. I see Mountain Warehouse in serious bother. A lot of small companies will go bust while the big ones are in a great place either.  I don't think anyone will be spending anything big these days - just being prudent.

Tough times ahead and the uncertainty in terms of the timeline isn't helping.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TabClear on March 17, 2020, 11:04:06 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 17, 2020, 10:28:37 AM
Have many pubs in the North shut? Its business as usual here in Manchester,

What about the main Student/St Patrick day bars in Belfast, have these been closed today? Not even sure where these are now, is the Hatfield still big?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 17, 2020, 11:24:15 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 17, 2020, 10:48:21 AM
The imperial college London report very interesting, especially for those interested in school closures & effectiveness

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

Think the Gaa Board technical group will publish theirs in a few days  ;D

That is scary.

Let's home things aren't as bad as their models predict.

Supposedly, those models were what finally scared Trump into taking his head out of his arse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on March 17, 2020, 11:32:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 17, 2020, 11:24:15 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 17, 2020, 10:48:21 AM
The imperial college London report very interesting, especially for those interested in school closures & effectiveness

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

Think the Gaa Board technical group will publish theirs in a few days  ;D

That is scary.

Let's home things aren't as bad as their models predict.

Supposedly, those models were what finally scared Trump into taking his head out of his arse.

What's the jist of the document for those people like me who are too lazy to read it all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 17, 2020, 11:37:37 AM
At the risk of being ridiculed lol i just read the last few pghs - 250k estimated deaths in UK?!

This is the bit im struggling with as i read similar on bbc, if china gets away with 3k deaths how are we hit so much worse? Even with china downplaying a bit they cant have hidden thousands of bodies,

Ps 1mill plus in US.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 17, 2020, 11:38:06 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 17, 2020, 11:32:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 17, 2020, 11:24:15 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 17, 2020, 10:48:21 AM
The imperial college London report very interesting, especially for those interested in school closures & effectiveness

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

Think the Gaa Board technical group will publish theirs in a few days  ;D

That is scary.

Let's home things aren't as bad as their models predict.

Supposedly, those models were what finally scared Trump into taking his head out of his arse.

What's the jist of the document for those people like me who are too lazy to read it all.

There is a summary on the first page.

But basically their broad conclusion is that we need social distancing, home isolation of the sick and their families, and complete closure of schools and universities UNTIL the vaccine becomes available!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 17, 2020, 11:41:10 AM
There won't be a safe vaccine for years. They rushed a vaccine for swine flu and it left teenagers with narcolepsy. And swine flu was mickey mouse compared to this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 17, 2020, 11:42:25 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 17, 2020, 11:32:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 17, 2020, 11:24:15 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 17, 2020, 10:48:21 AM
The imperial college London report very interesting, especially for those interested in school closures & effectiveness

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

Think the Gaa Board technical group will publish theirs in a few days  ;D

That is scary.

Let's home things aren't as bad as their models predict.

Supposedly, those models were what finally scared Trump into taking his head out of his arse.

What's the jist of the document for those people like me who are too lazy to read it all.

Close the f'ing schools and lock the place down. This will economically destroy countries but that is more palatable than 10s or 100s of thousands of deaths in the UK alone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 11:43:53 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 17, 2020, 10:48:21 AM
The imperial college London report very interesting, especially for those interested in school closures & effectiveness

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

Think the Gaa Board technical group will publish theirs in a few days  ;D
The Gaaboard technical group is usually happy enough to talk about sport but there is none
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 02 on March 17, 2020, 12:00:05 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 17, 2020, 11:37:37 AM
At the risk of being ridiculed lol i just read the last few pghs - 250k estimated deaths in UK?!

This is the bit im struggling with as i read similar on bbc, if china gets away with 3k deaths how are we hit so much worse? Even with china downplaying a bit they cant have hidden thousands of bodies,

Ps 1mill plus in US.....

I am sure there is vast under-reporting just like the initial outbreak in Wuhan was covered up for weeks before being reported to the WHO. However, China then pursued an aggressive tactic of testing in the community and disinfecting flats and communal areas were people were positively identified, forcing them to isolate or bringing them to the hospital to isolate if symptoms were too bad to manage at home. Also they would trace anyone they had contact with. In the UK they have stopped any community testing and only test for the worst cases in hospital, which is completely counter to the WHO recommendations of test, test, test... There is a documentary on YT called one month in Wuhan which is worth a watch!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 17, 2020, 12:17:58 PM
Its ok ive watched a youtube or dr vernon coleman there who says its all a hoax so thatll do for me 😉😐
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 17, 2020, 12:21:54 PM
Quote from: 02 on March 17, 2020, 12:00:05 PM

I am sure there is vast under-reporting just like the initial outbreak in Wuhan was covered up for weeks before being reported to the WHO. However, China then pursued an aggressive tactic of testing in the community and disinfecting flats and communal areas were people were positively identified, forcing them to isolate or bringing them to the hospital to isolate if symptoms were too bad to manage at home. Also they would trace anyone they had contact with. In the UK they have stopped any community testing and only test for the worst cases in hospital, which is completely counter to the WHO recommendations of test, test, test... There is a documentary on YT called one month in Wuhan which is worth a watch!

Community testing only getting off the ground here. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/big-increase-in-covid-19-cases-likely-as-testing-is-stepped-up-1.4204453
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 17, 2020, 12:23:53 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 17, 2020, 10:48:21 AM
The imperial college London report very interesting, especially for those interested in school closures & effectiveness

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

Think the Gaa Board technical group will publish theirs in a few days  ;D
Has it been peer reviewed by @Tommy1233242 on Twitter and OrangeLily1690 on Facebook?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 12:30:29 PM
China was in six week lockdown though ? I can't understand this reluctance for lockdown , social distancing will not work , you go for a walk now and you'll see groups of youths gathered , house parties been arranged etc etc . If we stay on course gaining 30% each day , wtf are the hospitals going to do in three weeks time ? Four weeks time ? Five weeks time ? It's an absolute disaster this .

I have listened to prof John crown several times since last week and although he praised the government and is a positive type fella full of praise for health workers etc and rightly so but he main point since last week is to shut everything down that's non essential. He seems very sure it's the right step to take .

I have to go back to work tomorrow for example or I'd just be replaced if I decided not to go in (it's an industry of no rights , apes in management etc etc) , canteen and drying rooms are wedged , I mean wedged beyond capacity , general hygiene is extremely poor on site , no hand sanatizer , I could go on but shur
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 17, 2020, 12:37:43 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 12:30:29 PM
I have listened to prof John crown several times since last week and although he praised the government and is a positive type fella full of praise for health workers etc and rightly so but he main point since last week is to shut everything down that's non essential. He seems very sure it's the right step to take .

Impossible to shut everything down though.

Shut down a creamery for example, farmers are left with storage of rotting milk which within days turns into a pollution problem, and there's no milk in the shops. Soon, no baby food.

Shut down animal feed mills and when the current supplies run out, 6m cattle start to starve.

Shut down the banks and within days there's no money in the ATMs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 17, 2020, 12:42:06 PM
Surely some of those would be classed as essential then..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 12:46:54 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 12:30:29 PM
China was in six week lockdown though ? I can't understand this reluctance for lockdown , social distancing will not work , you go for a walk now and you'll see groups of youths gathered , house parties been arranged etc etc . If we stay on course gaining 30% each day , wtf are the hospitals going to do in three weeks time ? Four weeks time ? Five weeks time ? It's an absolute disaster this .

I have listened to prof John crown several times since last week and although he praised the government and is a positive type fella full of praise for health workers etc and rightly so but he main point since last week is to shut everything down that's non essential. He seems very sure it's the right step to take .

I have to go back to work tomorrow for example or I'd just be replaced if I decided not to go in (it's an industry of no rights , apes in management etc etc) , canteen and drying rooms are wedged , I mean wedged beyond capacity , general hygiene is extremely poor on site , no hand sanatizer , I could go on but shur

Some people are antisocial, but most people are making a good effort. The solution is new regulations to ensure that there is better facilities and hand sanitizer etc.  There may yet be a lockdown,  but it causes huge economic damage and Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore have managed without closing down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 17, 2020, 12:48:37 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 17, 2020, 12:42:06 PM
Surely some of those would be classed as essential then..

If animal feed mills are deemed essential, then everything pretty much is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 11:41:10 AM
There won't be a safe vaccine for years. They rushed a vaccine for swine flu and it left teenagers with narcolepsy. And swine flu was mickey mouse compared to this.

What qualifies you to make that statement - How do you know a swine flue vaccine was "mickey mouse" compared to Covid-19? Do you work in this field?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 12:54:22 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 12:30:29 PM
China was in six week lockdown though ? I can't understand this reluctance for lockdown , social distancing will not work , you go for a walk now and you'll see groups of youths gathered , house parties been arranged etc etc . If we stay on course gaining 30% each day , wtf are the hospitals going to do in three weeks time ? Four weeks time ? Five weeks time ? It's an absolute disaster this .

I have listened to prof John crown several times since last week and although he praised the government and is a positive type fella full of praise for health workers etc and rightly so but he main point since last week is to shut everything down that's non essential. He seems very sure it's the right step to take .

I have to go back to work tomorrow for example or I'd just be replaced if I decided not to go in (it's an industry of no rights , apes in management etc etc) , canteen and drying rooms are wedged , I mean wedged beyond capacity , general hygiene is extremely poor on site , no hand sanatizer , I could go on but shur

Factories are still working in China unless they are making christmas toys etc
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 17, 2020, 12:57:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 11:41:10 AM
There won't be a safe vaccine for years. They rushed a vaccine for swine flu and it left teenagers with narcolepsy. And swine flu was mickey mouse compared to this.

What qualifies you to make that statement - How do you know a swine flue vaccine was "mickey mouse" compared to Covid-19? Do you work in this field?
If I had qualifications in vaccine science, do you think I'd be hanging around gaaboard today?  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 12:57:30 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 12:37:43 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 12:30:29 PM
I have listened to prof John crown several times since last week and although he praised the government and is a positive type fella full of praise for health workers etc and rightly so but he main point since last week is to shut everything down that's non essential. He seems very sure it's the right step to take .

Impossible to shut everything down though.

Shut down a creamery for example, farmers are left with storage of rotting milk which within days turns into a pollution problem, and there's no milk in the shops. Soon, no baby food.

Shut down animal feed mills and when the current supplies run out, 6m cattle start to starve.

Shut down the banks and within days there's no money in the ATMs.

China , Italy France and Spain , how are they managing / going to manage ?

If we take the 6% critical figure and gauge that against projected figures for Ireland over the coming weeks , I'm yet to hear a solution as to what we are going to do , we simply don't have the beds nor equipment nor the staff required . Worst case scenario doesn't bare thinking about tbh , Italy have twice as many icu beds per million as us and they have literally collapsed already choosing who to save .

1.9 million cases was a figure put out there last week , in my math that's 19k x 6 = 114 k ? Critical cases , Jesus foo kin Christ like , wake the fook up . This is Coveney and co look like death warmed up , I actually feel sorry for them . They don't know what to do in reality .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 17, 2020, 12:59:32 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 12:57:30 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 12:37:43 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 12:30:29 PM
I have listened to prof John crown several times since last week and although he praised the government and is a positive type fella full of praise for health workers etc and rightly so but he main point since last week is to shut everything down that's non essential. He seems very sure it's the right step to take .

Impossible to shut everything down though.

Shut down a creamery for example, farmers are left with storage of rotting milk which within days turns into a pollution problem, and there's no milk in the shops. Soon, no baby food.

Shut down animal feed mills and when the current supplies run out, 6m cattle start to starve.

Shut down the banks and within days there's no money in the ATMs.

China , Italy France and Spain , how are they managing / going to manage ?


Very badly if they shut creameries, feed mills and banking operations, to name just 3 industries.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on March 17, 2020, 01:01:20 PM
Surely shutting down non-essentials does not include the food supply chain?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 17, 2020, 01:08:10 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 12:37:43 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 12:30:29 PM
I have listened to prof John crown several times since last week and although he praised the government and is a positive type fella full of praise for health workers etc and rightly so but he main point since last week is to shut everything down that's non essential. He seems very sure it's the right step to take .

Impossible to shut everything down though.

Shut down a creamery for example, farmers are left with storage of rotting milk which within days turns into a pollution problem, and there's no milk in the shops. Soon, no baby food.

Shut down animal feed mills and when the current supplies run out, 6m cattle start to starve.

Shut down the banks and within days there's no money in the ATMs.

Banks can be shut down (who would prefer this outcome long term) and have limited staff in to top-up ATMs. To be honest, I haven't used an ATM in the last few months and prefer to use contactless.

Pubs aren't essential. People are naturally going to stop gathering in them except for the handful of people who ignore what is happening. By not saying "all pubs are closed" the government is essentially letting pub landlords lose their livelihoods.

Allow parents who can work from home remove their children from school. It might be unfair on others but it would limit the spread and if teachers are off sick, classes would be easier to manage. Imagine if a parent works as a nurse in hospital and gives their cold the virus... Their children then go into the school and give it to other children and teachers, they then pass it on to their parents and grandparents etc. If classes are smaller then socisl distancing would be possible in schools and teachers would find it easier to implement hygeine practices.

Public transport shouldn't be shut down but perhaps put on a limited service as it is essential to elderly.

It is unlikely supermarkets will be closed down. I am in favour of having a few hours set aside for the elderly which some companies have implemented and who should be applauded for doing so. If the panic buying shite continues then limit hours of supermarkets and implement online deliveries only do people arent buying out the dam toilet roll. Stores like Asda in England have drive through services - customers can sit in their cars while staff bring their groceries out to them.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 01:16:26 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 12:57:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 11:41:10 AM
There won't be a safe vaccine for years. They rushed a vaccine for swine flu and it left teenagers with narcolepsy. And swine flu was mickey mouse compared to this.

What qualifies you to make that statement - How do you know a swine flue vaccine was "mickey mouse" compared to Covid-19? Do you work in this field?
If I had qualifications in vaccine science, do you think I'd be hanging around gaaboard today?  ::)

Ok then, well what have you read that makes you write what you wrote? You surely have a link to sine article?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on March 17, 2020, 01:18:58 PM
How long is lockdown in Ireland predicted to last for?  Most people could survive with no wages for a month (well me anyhow, even if that meant using credit card etc.) but there is rates bill, car MOT coming up, mortgage payment, gas/electric bill.  I'd be ****** in fairly short order if I was given a months notice with no prospects of another job in short term.

140000 already laid off in south of Ireland and that is not including e.g.  the taxi driver who is working at a loss while no one is going anywhere.

https://gulfnews.com/world/europe/140000-workers-laid-off-in-ireland-over-coronavirus-1.1584378228672
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 01:22:45 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 12:37:43 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 12:30:29 PM
I have listened to prof John crown several times since last week and although he praised the government and is a positive type fella full of praise for health workers etc and rightly so but he main point since last week is to shut everything down that's non essential. He seems very sure it's the right step to take .

Impossible to shut everything down though.

Shut down a creamery for example, farmers are left with storage of rotting milk which within days turns into a pollution problem, and there's no milk in the shops. Soon, no baby food.

Shut down animal feed mills and when the current supplies run out, 6m cattle start to starve.

Shut down the banks and within days there's no money in the ATMs.
Food production, banks, post offices etc are not going to be shut down
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 17, 2020, 01:31:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 01:16:26 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 12:57:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 11:41:10 AM
There won't be a safe vaccine for years. They rushed a vaccine for swine flu and it left teenagers with narcolepsy. And swine flu was mickey mouse compared to this.

What qualifies you to make that statement - How do you know a swine flue vaccine was "mickey mouse" compared to Covid-19? Do you work in this field?
If I had qualifications in vaccine science, do you think I'd be hanging around gaaboard today?  ::)

Ok then, well what have you read that makes you write what you wrote? You surely have a link to sine article?

You've misread my "mickey mouse" comment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 17, 2020, 01:40:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 12:54:22 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 12:30:29 PM
China was in six week lockdown though ? I can't understand this reluctance for lockdown , social distancing will not work , you go for a walk now and you'll see groups of youths gathered , house parties been arranged etc etc . If we stay on course gaining 30% each day , wtf are the hospitals going to do in three weeks time ? Four weeks time ? Five weeks time ? It's an absolute disaster this .

I have listened to prof John crown several times since last week and although he praised the government and is a positive type fella full of praise for health workers etc and rightly so but he main point since last week is to shut everything down that's non essential. He seems very sure it's the right step to take .

I have to go back to work tomorrow for example or I'd just be replaced if I decided not to go in (it's an industry of no rights , apes in management etc etc) , canteen and drying rooms are wedged , I mean wedged beyond capacity , general hygiene is extremely poor on site , no hand sanatizer , I could go on but shur

Factories are still working in China unless they are making christmas toys etc

Most factories shut for at least 2 weeks, leaving lots of companies short on electronic components and the likes and there's still lead time issues in those sectors.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 01:42:03 PM
So no lockdown then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ned on March 17, 2020, 01:49:14 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 12:57:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 11:41:10 AM
There won't be a safe vaccine for years. They rushed a vaccine for swine flu and it left teenagers with narcolepsy. And swine flu was mickey mouse compared to this.

What qualifies you to make that statement - How do you know a swine flue vaccine was "mickey mouse" compared to Covid-19? Do you work in this field?
If I had qualifications in vaccine science, do you think I'd be hanging around gaaboard today?  ::)
You are making a statement without foundation. Unless you have inside info what was the point of that message. Provide a link to the second part of your statement and then that might be deemed useful.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 01:49:57 PM
I see there was a concert in Cardiff last night with thousands crammed in . I honestly am lost at the reaction of some , I don't get it , is it pure ignorance or just a reflection on the generation of narcissistic brats  we've produced .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 01:53:02 PM
https://econfip.org/policy-brief/keeping-business-alive-the-government-as-buyer-of-last-resort/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 01:57:50 PM
Did Italy and Britain catch the virus at the same time?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 17, 2020, 01:58:37 PM
Without condemning them as im sure theres others but read that pubs were open in Omagh and packed from this morn

Will it be stupidity that kills off the human race. The signs arent good 🙊
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 17, 2020, 02:09:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 01:57:50 PM
Did Italy and Britain catch the virus at the same time?
31 January for Italys first confirmed case

29 February first to be infected in the UK (a good few got it on the Diamond Princess cruise ship before that)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 17, 2020, 02:10:35 PM
Quote from: ned on March 17, 2020, 01:49:14 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 12:57:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 11:41:10 AM
There won't be a safe vaccine for years. They rushed a vaccine for swine flu and it left teenagers with narcolepsy. And swine flu was mickey mouse compared to this.

What qualifies you to make that statement - How do you know a swine flue vaccine was "mickey mouse" compared to Covid-19? Do you work in this field?
If I had qualifications in vaccine science, do you think I'd be hanging around gaaboard today?  ::)
You are making a statement without foundation. Unless you have inside info what was the point of that message. Provide a link to the second part of your statement and then that might be deemed useful.

You could have as easily found this link yourself. There are many others.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/narcolepsy-case-state-faces-4m-bill-after-vaccine-settlement-1.4088687
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 02:12:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 01:57:50 PM
Did Italy and Britain catch the virus at the same time?

Yep.

Unfortunately for Italy, one of their first cases was asymptomatic for a long time and around several hospitals before eventually being diagnosed. Add that to their more elderly population as well as their much more physically interactive social scene (do you hug yer mates every time you see them) - and you have an explosion in numbers early on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 02:19:09 PM
Anyone  see a pattern in the leisure centres closed in the wee 6?

Antrim and Newtownabbey: Open, and will be suspending gym membership fees until further notice
Ards & North Down: Open
Armagh Banbridge and Craigavon: Open
Belfast- Closed
Causeway Coast and Glens: Closed for St Patrick's Day but open tomorrow
Derry and Strabane – Closed
Fermanagh and Omagh – Closed
Lisburn and Castlereagh: Open
Mid and East Antrim - Open
Mid Ulster – Closed
Newry, Mourne and Down – Closed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on March 17, 2020, 02:21:27 PM
Anyone with a link to a chart which shows number of cases and deaths in Italy?

People really aren't grasping the financial severity of what might happen. Just heard of some bloke who's exchanged on some development without having the finance in place to complete, no development finance available now so thats about £500,000 down the drain. Not sure how many on zero hours contracts in the country but believe plenty of people have been let go around Manchester already.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on March 17, 2020, 02:22:22 PM
(https://res.cloudinary.com/devex/image/fetch/c_scale,f_auto,q_auto,w_300/https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_7hOBR7-ec_kePb1Dpu40eUORDFvdVR1rgHMfdJc83XSmKERCxBDYPapIfNjw8q_8GG5qrqVx57KHwcyItMmm563CWR_X71TP-mTEFJMrhzTA2cDe4Tj1QmTRcR00coVGQ)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 17, 2020, 02:23:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 02:19:09 PM
Anyone  see a pattern in the leisure centres closed in the wee 6?

Antrim and Newtownabbey: Open, and will be suspending gym membership fees until further notice
Ards & North Down: Open
Armagh Banbridge and Craigavon: Open
Belfast- Closed
Causeway Coast and Glens: Closed for St Patrick's Day but open tomorrow
Derry and Strabane – Closed
Fermanagh and Omagh – Closed
Lisburn and Castlereagh: Open
Mid and East Antrim - Open
Mid Ulster – Closed
Newry, Mourne and Down – Closed

Even the OO has cancelled all their services and meetings etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on March 17, 2020, 02:24:06 PM
Life expectancy is directly linked to GDP. If this isn't dealt with promptly the resulting impact on the economy will likely kill far greater numbers than the virus itself
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 02:24:27 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 17, 2020, 02:21:27 PM
Anyone with a link to a chart which shows number of cases and deaths in Italy?

People really aren't grasping the financial severity of what might happen. Just heard of some bloke who's exchanged on some development without having the finance in place to complete, no development finance available now so thats about £500,000 down the drain. Not sure how many on zero hours contracts in the country but believe plenty of people have been let go around Manchester already.
[/https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 17, 2020, 02:24:33 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 02:12:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 01:57:50 PM
Did Italy and Britain catch the virus at the same time?

Yep.

Unfortunately for Italy, one of their first cases was asymptomatic for a long time and around several hospitals before eventually being diagnosed. Add that to their more elderly population as well as their much more physically interactive social scene (do you hug yer mates every time you see them) - and you have an explosion in numbers early on.

That doesn't really explain the huge disparity between the 2 countries though?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 17, 2020, 02:25:17 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 17, 2020, 02:21:27 PM
Anyone with a link to a chart which shows number of cases and deaths in Italy?

People really aren't grasping the financial severity of what might happen. Just heard of some bloke who's exchanged on some development without having the finance in place to complete, no development finance available now so thats about £500,000 down the drain. Not sure how many on zero hours contracts in the country but believe plenty of people have been let go around Manchester already.

https://twitter.com/samfr/status/1239261123066683397?s=21(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETK9a6UXsAAeolI?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 02:27:01 PM
One poster replies there has been a month in the difference of first case in Italy & uk and another poster replies they were at the same time .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on March 17, 2020, 02:31:23 PM
Best thing that can happen is the internet goes into a 1 month lock down. The hysterical b%llox talk will kill more stupids than the virus itself.

How many anxious filled teens & children are we creating, the pharmaceutical industry is alive and well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 02:32:24 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on March 17, 2020, 02:24:06 PM
Life expectancy is directly linked to GDP. If this isn't dealt with promptly the resulting impact on the economy will likely kill far greater numbers than the virus itself

That is slightly simplistic, since life expectancy is similar in the USA and Cuba.
Economies,  especially Ireland, will recover quickly from this.

Quote from: Rudi on March 17, 2020, 02:31:23 PM
Best thing that can happen is the internet goes into a 1 month lock down. The hysterical b%llox talk will kill more stupids than the virus itself.

How many anxious filled teens & children are we creating, the pharmaceutical industry is alive and well.

This is nonsense. The Internet is allowing education be continued, services be provided and people retain their jobs working at home.
The economy is hugely protected by this. The pharmaceutical industry will provide treatments for this virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ned on March 17, 2020, 02:34:25 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 02:10:35 PM
Quote from: ned on March 17, 2020, 01:49:14 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 12:57:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 11:41:10 AM
There won't be a safe vaccine for years. They rushed a vaccine for swine flu and it left teenagers with narcolepsy. And swine flu was mickey mouse compared to this.

What qualifies you to make that statement - How do you know a swine flue vaccine was "mickey mouse" compared to Covid-19? Do you work in this field?
If I had qualifications in vaccine science, do you think I'd be hanging around gaaboard today?  ::)
You are making a statement without foundation. Unless you have inside info what was the point of that message. Provide a link to the second part of your statement and then that might be deemed useful.

You could have as easily found this link yourself. There are many others.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/narcolepsy-case-state-faces-4m-bill-after-vaccine-settlement-1.4088687

The first part still needs clarifying. I've heard several contrary reports, I can't substantiate, therefore won't post that opinion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 02:35:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 02:19:09 PM
Anyone  see a pattern in the leisure centres closed in the wee 6?

Antrim and Newtownabbey: Open, and will be suspending gym membership fees until further notice
Ards & North Down: Open
Armagh Banbridge and Craigavon: Open
Belfast- Closed
Causeway Coast and Glens: Closed for St Patrick's Day but open tomorrow
Derry and Strabane – Closed
Fermanagh and Omagh – Closed
Lisburn and Castlereagh: Open
Mid and East Antrim - Open
Mid Ulster – Closed
Newry, Mourne and Down – Closed

Nope. Certain controlled councils are closing leisure centres and others aren't?

I live in one of those areas that's still open, the argument of being on lockdown is still unclear as the government are dragging their heels, but seems plenty people on here are still working in places with other people. So it's either a proper lockdown or not at all and just be sensible.

The army will be back on the streets soon, marshal law on the way!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 17, 2020, 02:36:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on March 17, 2020, 02:31:23 PM
Best thing that can happen is the internet goes into a 1 month lock down. The hysterical b%llox talk will kill more stupids than the virus itself.

How many anxious filled teens & children are we creating, the pharmaceutical industry is alive and well.

Yes it's absolutely mental at the minute
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 17, 2020, 02:38:37 PM
Quote from: ned on March 17, 2020, 02:34:25 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 02:10:35 PM
Quote from: ned on March 17, 2020, 01:49:14 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 12:57:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 11:41:10 AM
There won't be a safe vaccine for years. They rushed a vaccine for swine flu and it left teenagers with narcolepsy. And swine flu was mickey mouse compared to this.

What qualifies you to make that statement - How do you know a swine flue vaccine was "mickey mouse" compared to Covid-19? Do you work in this field?
If I had qualifications in vaccine science, do you think I'd be hanging around gaaboard today?  ::)
You are making a statement without foundation. Unless you have inside info what was the point of that message. Provide a link to the second part of your statement and then that might be deemed useful.

You could have as easily found this link yourself. There are many others.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/narcolepsy-case-state-faces-4m-bill-after-vaccine-settlement-1.4088687

The first part still needs clarifying. I've heard several contrary reports, I can't substantiate, therefore won't post that opinion.

It's a simple prediction, based on the fact that any new medicine requires a lot of testing before it can be deemed sufficiently safe for wide public circulation. This bit of it isn't exactly rocket science.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on March 17, 2020, 02:39:24 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 17, 2020, 02:36:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on March 17, 2020, 02:31:23 PM
Best thing that can happen is the internet goes into a 1 month lock down. The hysterical b%llox talk will kill more stupids than the virus itself.

How many anxious filled teens & children are we creating, the pharmaceutical industry is alive and well.

Yes it's absolutely mental at the minute
And the conspiracy theorists. People need to wise up to f**k. 

A fortnight ago people were in denial.  Now some of the same people are spreading all sorts of quackery about the internet.

Country is full of headcases idiots,

edit: shouldn't have said that

 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 02:41:58 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 17, 2020, 02:36:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on March 17, 2020, 02:31:23 PM
Best thing that can happen is the internet goes into a 1 month lock down. The hysterical b%llox talk will kill more stupids than the virus itself.

How many anxious filled teens & children are we creating, the pharmaceutical industry is alive and well.

Yes it's absolutely mental at the minute

Is it hysteria to describe what's happening in Italy ? Have you read any of the articles or watched the videos of doctors who are actually there on the frontline , do you know that yesterday they have proposed they will have to refuse treatment for the over 80s ?

Yes it's scary, yes it's fu ck img awful but it's happening . And the worst has not hit by a long shot .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on March 17, 2020, 03:11:01 PM
21 year old died in Spain yesterday . He had been diagnosed with Leukemia recently too, but the saying that its only the elderly at risk, is wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 17, 2020, 03:18:53 PM
Quote from: APM on March 17, 2020, 02:39:24 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 17, 2020, 02:36:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on March 17, 2020, 02:31:23 PM
Best thing that can happen is the internet goes into a 1 month lock down. The hysterical b%llox talk will kill more stupids than the virus itself.

How many anxious filled teens & children are we creating, the pharmaceutical industry is alive and well.

Yes it's absolutely mental at the minute
And the conspiracy theorists. People need to wise up to f**k. 

A fortnight ago people were in denial.  Now some of the same people are spreading all sorts of quackery about the internet.

Country is full of headcases idiots,

edit: shouldn't have said that



Yes loads of online idiots but the biggest idiots of all is Boris Johnson,Donald Trump both are meant to be leading yet only now are they taking things serious. Their slow reactions and errors to this crisis will put an end to plenty of businesses and will cost thousands of more lives than it should.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 03:24:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 02:35:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 02:19:09 PM
Anyone  see a pattern in the leisure centres closed in the wee 6?

Antrim and Newtownabbey: Open, and will be suspending gym membership fees until further notice
Ards & North Down: Open
Armagh Banbridge and Craigavon: Open
Belfast- Closed
Causeway Coast and Glens: Closed for St Patrick's Day but open tomorrow
Derry and Strabane – Closed
Fermanagh and Omagh – Closed
Lisburn and Castlereagh: Open
Mid and East Antrim - Open
Mid Ulster – Closed
Newry, Mourne and Down – Closed

Nope. Certain controlled councils are closing leisure centres and others aren't?


Some of them flying the Butcher's Apron outside the centre, perhaps. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 03:26:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 03:24:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 02:35:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 02:19:09 PM
Anyone  see a pattern in the leisure centres closed in the wee 6?

Antrim and Newtownabbey: Open, and will be suspending gym membership fees until further notice
Ards & North Down: Open
Armagh Banbridge and Craigavon: Open
Belfast- Closed
Causeway Coast and Glens: Closed for St Patrick's Day but open tomorrow
Derry and Strabane – Closed
Fermanagh and Omagh – Closed
Lisburn and Castlereagh: Open
Mid and East Antrim - Open
Mid Ulster – Closed
Newry, Mourne and Down – Closed

Nope. Certain controlled councils are closing leisure centres and others aren't?


Some of them flying the Butcher's Apron outside the centre, perhaps.

So it's the prods that are spreading the virus  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: playwiththewind1st on March 17, 2020, 03:35:34 PM
Well, the Orange Order aren't for marching, so they're out of step with the DUP.
It's funny listening to Snarlene saying she will be guided by science, when Pootsy says the Earth was created around 4,000 BC.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 17, 2020, 03:39:05 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on March 17, 2020, 03:11:01 PM
21 year old died in Spain yesterday . He had been diagnosed with Leukemia recently too, but the saying that its only the elderly at risk, is wrong.

Nobody said only the elderly at risk, they are more at risk as are those with underlying health conditions. That's been pretty clear I thought
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 03:43:28 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 02:38:37 PM
Quote from: ned on March 17, 2020, 02:34:25 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 02:10:35 PM
Quote from: ned on March 17, 2020, 01:49:14 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 12:57:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 11:41:10 AM
There won't be a safe vaccine for years. They rushed a vaccine for swine flu and it left teenagers with narcolepsy. And swine flu was mickey mouse compared to this.

What qualifies you to make that statement - How do you know a swine flue vaccine was "mickey mouse" compared to Covid-19? Do you work in this field?
If I had qualifications in vaccine science, do you think I'd be hanging around gaaboard today?  ::)
You are making a statement without foundation. Unless you have inside info what was the point of that message. Provide a link to the second part of your statement and then that might be deemed useful.

You could have as easily found this link yourself. There are many others.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/narcolepsy-case-state-faces-4m-bill-after-vaccine-settlement-1.4088687

The first part still needs clarifying. I've heard several contrary reports, I can't substantiate, therefore won't post that opinion.

It's a simple prediction, based on the fact that any new medicine requires a lot of testing before it can be deemed sufficiently safe for wide public circulation. This bit of it isn't exactly rocket science.

You didn't predict, you said with certainty it would take years. Every article or expert I have heard or read has said 12 to 18 months. So you just made a statement with no foundation and now you are calling it a "prediction" which you have based on one previous event (swine flu)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 03:54:46 PM
Irish company developing 15 minute test kit...

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/irish-developed-kit-confirms-infection-in-15-minutes-39046582.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 04:02:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 03:26:29 PM
So it's the prods that are spreading the virus  ;D

So, it is the Prods that are voting for irresponsible git politicians.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 04:04:58 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 02:41:58 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 17, 2020, 02:36:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on March 17, 2020, 02:31:23 PM
Best thing that can happen is the internet goes into a 1 month lock down. The hysterical b%llox talk will kill more stupids than the virus itself.

How many anxious filled teens & children are we creating, the pharmaceutical industry is alive and well.

Yes it's absolutely mental at the minute

Is it hysteria to describe what's happening in Italy ? Have you read any of the articles or watched the videos of doctors who are actually there on the frontline , do you know that yesterday they have proposed they will have to refuse treatment for the over 80s ?

Yes it's scary, yes it's fu ck img awful but it's happening . And the worst has not hit by a long shot .

It's a relatively weak pandemic

-It doesn't strike uniformly across the population
-It is expected to be less lethal than the flu of winter 2017/18 which killed 50,000 people in the UK. And that was just the flu.

The real thing would kill more than 10,000 people in the Republic and hospitalise 120,000.

So there is a a lot of unnecessary panic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 17, 2020, 04:06:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 03:43:28 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 02:38:37 PM

It's a simple prediction, based on the fact that any new medicine requires a lot of testing before it can be deemed sufficiently safe for wide public circulation. This bit of it isn't exactly rocket science.

You didn't predict, you said with certainty it would take years. Every article or expert I have heard or read has said 12 to 18 months. So you just made a statement with no foundation and now you are calling it a "prediction" which you have based on one previous event (swine flu)

Give over. This is a public discussion forum, not a court of law, and you're under no obligation to agree with everything someone else says. Why you have such a bee in your bonnet about the difference between "years" and "12 to 18 months" in the context of the previous comment that "basically their broad conclusion is that we need social distancing, home isolation of the sick and their families, and complete closure of schools and universities UNTIL the vaccine becomes available", I'm at a loss to understand.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 17, 2020, 04:16:31 PM
US going big with their package... the outline sounds promising but as with everything the devil is in the detail.

Everyone thought French people were getting rent/utility/mortgage/rate relief then it emerges that this was for small business but the US seem to want to put money in peoples pockets!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 04:22:35 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on March 17, 2020, 02:24:06 PM
Life expectancy is directly linked to GDP. If this isn't dealt with promptly the resulting impact on the economy will likely kill far greater numbers than the virus itself

Correlation does not indicate causality.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 04:35:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 04:02:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 03:26:29 PM
So it's the prods that are spreading the virus  ;D

So, it is the Prods that are voting for irresponsible git politicians.

Plenty paddy's in town being very irresponsible at the moment
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 17, 2020, 04:44:30 PM
Plenty of sensibleness in the 26 today thank God.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 04:45:24 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 02:27:01 PM
One poster replies there has been a month in the difference of first case in Italy & uk and another poster replies they were at the same time .

31st Jan for both.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 04:46:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 04:04:58 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 02:41:58 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 17, 2020, 02:36:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on March 17, 2020, 02:31:23 PM
Best thing that can happen is the internet goes into a 1 month lock down. The hysterical b%llox talk will kill more stupids than the virus itself.

How many anxious filled teens & children are we creating, the pharmaceutical industry is alive and well.

Yes it's absolutely mental at the minute

Is it hysteria to describe what's happening in Italy ? Have you read any of the articles or watched the videos of doctors who are actually there on the frontline , do you know that yesterday they have proposed they will have to refuse treatment for the over 80s ?

Yes it's scary, yes it's fu ck img awful but it's happening . And the worst has not hit by a long shot .

It's a relatively weak pandemic

-It doesn't strike uniformly across the population
-It is expected to be less lethal than the flu of winter 2017/18 which killed 50,000 people in the UK. And that was just the flu.

The real thing would kill more than 10,000 people in the Republic and hospitalise 120,000.

So there is a a lot of unnecessary panic.

I mistakenly took you as one of the more factual posters . This is just nonsense context .

Seasonal flu is about 0.1% mortality rate .

Where did you pull that 50k figure from over two years , English health board doesn't even release figures according to article i just read , it estimates it to be 17k per year on average .

There is nothing seasonal flu and covid19 have in common bar symptoms, when did 120k people lose their jobs in a day in Ireland through the flu , when did all pubs, clubs and restaurants close cause of the flu ?

It's utter nonsense and just a want to sound extremely calm and rational to say they compare .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 04:48:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 17, 2020, 04:44:30 PM
Plenty of sensibleness in the 26 today thank God.


If the government didn't close the pubs there would be plenty in it!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 04:50:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 04:04:58 PM
It's a relatively weak pandemic

-It doesn't strike uniformly across the population
-It is expected to be less lethal than the flu of winter 2017/18 which killed 50,000 people in the UK. And that was just the flu.

The real thing would kill more than 10,000 people in the Republic and hospitalise 120,000.

So there is a a lot of unnecessary panic.

You are all at sea with that one.

If there is not more serious measures taken here (unlike that flu you reference which I cannot recall a lockdown for), you could be looking at over 20 times 50,000 dead before this is over.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 04:51:56 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 03:43:28 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 02:38:37 PM
It's a simple prediction, based on the fact that any new medicine requires a lot of testing before it can be deemed sufficiently safe for wide public circulation. This bit of it isn't exactly rocket science.

You didn't predict, you said with certainty it would take years. Every article or expert I have heard or read has said 12 to 18 months. So you just made a statement with no foundation and now you are calling it a "prediction" which you have based on one previous event (swine flu)

Ah I wouldn't shoot him for that.

It could easily take 24 months for a vaccine to be suitably qualified and produced in the numbers required.

Just note - there has never been a successful coronavirus vaccine yet - despite SARS and MERS. It won't be plain sailing in the labs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dec on March 17, 2020, 04:58:20 PM
Some of the comments I have seen seem designed to push Peter Weir and Arlene away from closing the schools. Repeated references to an "All-Island" approach or references to what is being done in the South are likely to annoy Unionists.

Even today was this comment

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-51923280
Kieran O'Neill, chairman of the Catholic Principals' Association, called on Peter Weir to "show leadership in line with the department of education in the Republic of Ireland and close all schools with immediate effect".

The message should be that closing the schools is the right thing to do, whether or not the schools in GB or the south are closed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 05:02:41 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 04:50:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 04:04:58 PM
It's a relatively weak pandemic

-It doesn't strike uniformly across the population
-It is expected to be less lethal than the flu of winter 2017/18 which killed 50,000 people in the UK. And that was just the flu.

The real thing would kill more than 10,000 people in the Republic and hospitalise 120,000.

So there is a a lot of unnecessary panic.

You are all at sea with that one.

If there is not more serious measures taken here (unlike that flu you reference which I cannot recall a lockdown for), you could be looking at over 20 times 50,000 dead before this is over.

Three months in 50 dead, in next 9 months a million people will die?

That's some number
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on March 17, 2020, 05:06:03 PM
I'm fairly sure I heard Peter Valance say the seasonal flu tends to kill 8,000 people a year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 17, 2020, 05:15:03 PM
Quote from: dec on March 17, 2020, 04:58:20 PM
Some of the comments I have seen seem designed to push Peter Weir and Arlene away from closing the schools. Repeated references to an "All-Island" approach or references to what is being done in the South are likely to annoy Unionists.

Even today was this comment

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-51923280
Kieran O'Neill, chairman of the Catholic Principals' Association, called on Peter Weir to "show leadership in line with the department of education in the Republic of Ireland and close all schools with immediate effect".

The message should be that closing the schools is the right thing to do, whether or not the schools in GB or the south are closed.

I'm not even sure the schools in the Republic would be closed at all were it not for the convenient timing of St Patrick's Day and the Easter holidays in a few weeks time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 17, 2020, 05:21:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 04:48:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 17, 2020, 04:44:30 PM
Plenty of sensibleness in the 26 today thank God.


If the government didn't close the pubs there would be plenty in it!
Point of order .... Government advised pubs to close.
They've taken that advice.
Ye'd better all prepare for a long haul as Professir Syferus has told us on Stolensheep that it won't be going away for a long time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 17, 2020, 05:26:42 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 17, 2020, 05:21:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 04:48:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 17, 2020, 04:44:30 PM
Plenty of sensibleness in the 26 today thank God.


If the government didn't close the pubs there would be plenty in it!
Point of order .... Government advised pubs to close.
They've taken that advice.
Ye'd better all prepare for a long haul as Professir Syferus has told us on Stolensheep that it won't be going away for a long time.

The Covid-19 response team at Imperial College London concur.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 05:31:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 17, 2020, 05:21:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 04:48:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 17, 2020, 04:44:30 PM
Plenty of sensibleness in the 26 today thank God.


If the government didn't close the pubs there would be plenty in it!
Point of order .... Government advised pubs to close.
They've taken that advice.
Ye'd better all prepare for a long haul as Professir Syferus has told us on Stolensheep that it won't be going away for a long time.

He could very well be right . I don't even believe society will ever be the same again in our lifetime . Ireland especially just can't cope with this , what percentage of them pubs do you think will ever open again for example .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 17, 2020, 05:32:43 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 17, 2020, 05:24:00 PM
QuoteI'm not even sure the schools in the Republic would be closed at all were it not for the convenient timing of St Patrick's Day and the Easter holidays in a few weeks time.
Why?

Because they have the luxury of extending it until 20 April if the crisis drags on, or recouping days in the second half of the Easter holidays if it doesn't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 05:36:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 05:02:41 PM
Three months in 50 dead, in next 9 months a million people will die?

That's some number

You've long demonstrated an inability to wrap your head around this. You obviously don't understand exponential growth either.

With UK numbers completely f**ked due to the lack of widespread testing, I'm going to use studies elsewhere that puts the death rate about 5%[1].

The current UK infection rate is around 30% per day - it may be higher, but its definitely at least around 30%.

Just for yourself to see
Open up an excel sheet,
In cell A1, stick down 1, in cell A2, enter "=A1+1"
In cell B1, stick down 1500 [official number of infected], in cell B2 enter "=B1*1.3".
In cell C1 enter "=B1*0.05", in cell C2 enter "=B2*0.05"

Select all of row2, then drag/copy it down about 60 rows.

At the current rate, if everyone did nothing about it, essentially the entire country would have the virus in just over 40 days. 5% of that is 3.5 million dead within 2 months. With 20% of the infected requiring acute care, that would be 14 million people looking into hospital over the next ~40 days. Obviously the system would completely collapse. Then the death rate approaches that of Italy, which is >15%... so that 3.5 million could become 10 million.

This is serious shit. Isolation and breaking of social contact is critical in stopping the above coming true. Stupid c***ts like you with sarcy responses to things they clearly don't understand doesn't help the message of severity get across to folks that also don't know better but might listen to those that do.


[1]https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30195-X/fulltext


Also of use for keeping track of numbers:
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/f94c3c90da5b4e9f9a0b19484dd4bb14
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 05:37:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 17, 2020, 05:21:07 PM
Ye'd better all prepare for a long haul as Professir Syferus has told us on Stolensheep that it won't be going away for a long time.

He may be a grade A dick, but in this case he's not wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 17, 2020, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 17, 2020, 05:35:48 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 05:32:43 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 17, 2020, 05:24:00 PM
QuoteI'm not even sure the schools in the Republic would be closed at all were it not for the convenient timing of St Patrick's Day and the Easter holidays in a few weeks time.
Why?

Because they have the luxury of extending it until 20 April if the crisis drags on, or recouping days in the second half of the Easter holidays if it doesn't.
No, what makes you unsure they wouldn't have done it?

Because in my kids school it was all systems go until shortly before the announcement last Thursday -  activities, meetings, trips etc.

But as I say, I'm unsure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 05:38:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 04:04:58 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 02:41:58 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 17, 2020, 02:36:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on March 17, 2020, 02:31:23 PM
Best thing that can happen is the internet goes into a 1 month lock down. The hysterical b%llox talk will kill more stupids than the virus itself.

How many anxious filled teens & children are we creating, the pharmaceutical industry is alive and well.

Yes it's absolutely mental at the minute

Is it hysteria to describe what's happening in Italy ? Have you read any of the articles or watched the videos of doctors who are actually there on the frontline , do you know that yesterday they have proposed they will have to refuse treatment for the over 80s ?

Yes it's scary, yes it's fu ck img awful but it's happening . And the worst has not hit by a long shot .

It's a relatively weak pandemic

-It doesn't strike uniformly across the population
-It is expected to be less lethal than the flu of winter 2017/18 which killed 50,000 people in the UK. And that was just the flu.

The real thing would kill more than 10,000 people in the Republic and hospitalise 120,000.

So there is a a lot of unnecessary panic.

Relatively weak? Relative to what?

Top level stats. Mortality between maybe 0 5% and 6% and twice as contagious as the flu. Flu has a vaccine and this does not. So what are you talking about?

I actually cannot  believe you, who appears to be well read, would write such nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 17, 2020, 05:46:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 17, 2020, 05:41:40 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 17, 2020, 05:35:48 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 05:32:43 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 17, 2020, 05:24:00 PM
QuoteI'm not even sure the schools in the Republic would be closed at all were it not for the convenient timing of St Patrick's Day and the Easter holidays in a few weeks time.
Why?

Because they have the luxury of extending it until 20 April if the crisis drags on, or recouping days in the second half of the Easter holidays if it doesn't.
No, what makes you unsure they wouldn't have done it?

Because in my kids school it was all systems go until shortly before the announcement last Thursday -  activities, meetings, trips etc.

But as I say, I'm unsure.
:-\
How are you drawing any reference from that?
How what? My kids school, which is a very, very well organised one, gave no impression that they were even considering closing until the government sprung it on them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 17, 2020, 06:18:38 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 05:38:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 04:04:58 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 02:41:58 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 17, 2020, 02:36:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on March 17, 2020, 02:31:23 PM
Best thing that can happen is the internet goes into a 1 month lock down. The hysterical b%llox talk will kill more stupids than the virus itself.

How many anxious filled teens & children are we creating, the pharmaceutical industry is alive and well.

Yes it's absolutely mental at the minute

Is it hysteria to describe what's happening in Italy ? Have you read any of the articles or watched the videos of doctors who are actually there on the frontline , do you know that yesterday they have proposed they will have to refuse treatment for the over 80s ?

Yes it's scary, yes it's fu ck img awful but it's happening . And the worst has not hit by a long shot .

It's a relatively weak pandemic

-It doesn't strike uniformly across the population
-It is expected to be less lethal than the flu of winter 2017/18 which killed 50,000 people in the UK. And that was just the flu.

The real thing would kill more than 10,000 people in the Republic and hospitalise 120,000.

So there is a a lot of unnecessary panic.

Relatively weak? Relative to what?

Top level stats. Mortality between maybe 0 5% and 6% and twice as contagious as the flu. Flu has a vaccine and this does not. So what are you talking about?

I actually cannot  believe you, who appears to be well read, would write such nonsense.
seafóid appeared to be well read.  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 17, 2020, 06:20:21 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 17, 2020, 06:07:07 PM
Schools didn't know they were closing until the gov closed them. Obviously they weren't doing anything different.
Your original point suggested that the schools may not have been closed (by the gov) only for St Patrick's & Easter being so close.
I'm asking you what makes you think that? Is there anything to suggest that is the case, outside of your head?

Schools not knowing they were closing is not the answer to that btw.

Because there would have been stronger objections from State exam students and teachers had they shut for example a fortnight after Easter, with exam preparation in full swing. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 05:38:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 04:04:58 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 02:41:58 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 17, 2020, 02:36:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on March 17, 2020, 02:31:23 PM
Best thing that can happen is the internet goes into a 1 month lock down. The hysterical b%llox talk will kill more stupids than the virus itself.

How many anxious filled teens & children are we creating, the pharmaceutical industry is alive and well.

Yes it's absolutely mental at the minute

Is it hysteria to describe what's happening in Italy ? Have you read any of the articles or watched the videos of doctors who are actually there on the frontline , do you know that yesterday they have proposed they will have to refuse treatment for the over 80s ?

Yes it's scary, yes it's fu ck img awful but it's happening . And the worst has not hit by a long shot .

It's a relatively weak pandemic

-It doesn't strike uniformly across the population
-It is expected to be less lethal than the flu of winter 2017/18 which killed 50,000 people in the UK. And that was just the flu.

The real thing would kill more than 10,000 people in the Republic and hospitalise 120,000.

So there is a a lot of unnecessary panic.

Relatively weak? Relative to what?

Top level stats. Mortality between maybe 0 5% and 6% and twice as contagious as the flu. Flu has a vaccine and this does not. So what are you talking about?

I actually cannot  believe you, who appears to be well read, would write such nonsense.
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 17, 2020, 06:30:23 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 17, 2020, 06:24:07 PM
Quote from: five points on March 17, 2020, 06:20:21 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 17, 2020, 06:07:07 PM
Schools didn't know they were closing until the gov closed them. Obviously they weren't doing anything different.
Your original point suggested that the schools may not have been closed (by the gov) only for St Patrick's & Easter being so close.
I'm asking you what makes you think that? Is there anything to suggest that is the case, outside of your head?

Schools not knowing they were closing is not the answer to that btw.

Because there would have been stronger objections from State exam students and teachers had they shut for example a fortnight after Easter, with exam preparation in full swing.
What on earth are you talking about now?

I don't know, I thought that spoke for itself?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 06:46:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 04:04:58 PM
It's a relatively weak pandemic

-It doesn't strike uniformly across the population
-It is expected to be less lethal than the flu of winter 2017/18 which killed 50,000 people in the UK. And that was just the flu.

The real thing would kill more than 10,000 people in the Republic and hospitalise 120,000.

So there is a a lot of unnecessary panic.

Who expects it to kill less than 50,000 in the UK? Boris Johnson?
It is more infectious than flu typically is, and it will kill 0.5% of people even if they receive treatment. Assume half the people get it, that's 180,000. Since that number haven't a hope of  receiving treatment the death rate would  be like half a million.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 06:49:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".

Sorry perhaps I'm just not getting your figures but 0.1 % to 1% is 0.9 difference , where does the 1000% come in ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ned on March 17, 2020, 06:50:34 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".

Your maths is wrong. Should be 100% and 500% but your point is still valid. Some just won't be told.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ned on March 17, 2020, 06:52:36 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 06:49:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".

Sorry perhaps I'm just not getting your figures but 0.1 % to 1% is 0.9 difference , where does the 1000% come in ?

1% is 100 times 0.1%
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 07:00:01 PM
Quote from: ned on March 17, 2020, 06:50:34 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".

Your maths is wrong. Should be 100% and 500% but your point is still valid. Some just won't be told.

The point is  that this is not  just predicting the score in a  GAA game, it is serious and people should not be putting forward claims that is is just flu, without any basis.

This guy does not think it is only flu,, hence the sarcastic "una semplice influenza" at the end
https://twitter.com/acirne/status/1238794673906421761?s=19

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 07:06:10 PM
Quote from: ned on March 17, 2020, 06:52:36 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 06:49:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".

Sorry perhaps I'm just not getting your figures but 0.1 % to 1% is 0.9 difference , where does the 1000% come in ?

1% is 100 times 0.1%

Honestly have to admit I thought it was only ten times as much , shows you how daft I am in reality
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 07:12:19 PM
What is 0.01 then ? Genuinely confused here .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on March 17, 2020, 07:13:29 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 07:06:10 PM
Quote from: ned on March 17, 2020, 06:52:36 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 06:49:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".

Sorry perhaps I'm just not getting your figures but 0.1 % to 1% is 0.9 difference , where does the 1000% come in ?

1% is 100 times 0.1%

Honestly have to admit I thought it was only ten times as much , shows you how daft I am in reality
It is

100% of 20 is 20, (20x1).
50% of 20 is 10  (20x0.5).
1000% of 20 is 200 i.e.  (20x10).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 17, 2020, 07:20:47 PM
I don't know which hurts more. The wilful ignorance of so many here or the terrible mathematical abilities.

If flu kills 50,000, 150% of that is 75,000.

To turn out 1000% of a value, multiply it by 10.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 17, 2020, 07:21:31 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 07:06:10 PM
Quote from: ned on March 17, 2020, 06:52:36 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 06:49:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".

Sorry perhaps I'm just not getting your figures but 0.1 % to 1% is 0.9 difference , where does the 1000% come in ?

1% is 100 times 0.1%

Honestly have to admit I thought it was only ten times as much , shows you how daft I am in reality

You're right
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:22:08 PM
Quote from: ned on March 17, 2020, 06:52:36 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 06:49:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".

Sorry perhaps I'm just not getting your figures but 0.1 % to 1% is 0.9 difference , where does the 1000% come in ?

1% is 100 times 0.1%

So if I multiply 0.1 by 100 I'll get 1? Cause I just did it on the aul calculator and it came up as ten
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:24:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 06:46:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 04:04:58 PM
It's a relatively weak pandemic

-It doesn't strike uniformly across the population
-It is expected to be less lethal than the flu of winter 2017/18 which killed 50,000 people in the UK. And that was just the flu.

The real thing would kill more than 10,000 people in the Republic and hospitalise 120,000.

So there is a a lot of unnecessary panic.

Who expects it to kill less than 50,000 in the UK? Boris Johnson?
It is more infectious than flu typically is, and it will kill 0.5% of people even if they receive treatment. Assume half the people get it, that's 180,000. Since that number haven't a hope of  receiving treatment the death rate would  be like half a million.

Will it not kill at least a million? The expert on earlier did a spread sheet excel thingy showing a million deaths relating to the virus in Britain alone!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on March 17, 2020, 07:24:54 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 07:12:19 PM
What is 0.01 then ? Genuinely confused here .

0.01 is one hundredth
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 07:26:48 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on March 17, 2020, 07:24:54 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 07:12:19 PM
What is 0.01 then ? Genuinely confused here .

0.01 is one hundredth

;D ;D Sound
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:30:37 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 06:49:50 PM
Sorry perhaps I'm just not getting your figures but 0.1 % to 1% is 0.9 difference , where does the 1000% come in ?

If you have 100 cans of beer and someone else has 50% of the cans of beer you do, they have 50 cans. If they have 100% of the cans you do, they also have 100 cans of beer.


If normal flu has a mortality rate of 0.1% - 1 person per one thousand dies of it.
If Covid has a a mortality rate of 1% - 10 people per one thousand die of it.

10 x 100% = Covid is 1000% worse than flu.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:31:49 PM
Quote from: ned on March 17, 2020, 06:50:34 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".

Your maths is wrong. Should be 100% and 500% but your point is still valid. Some just won't be told.

Sorry, its not.

100% of 0.1% is still 0.1%

1000% of 0.1% is 1.0%
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:33:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:24:40 PM
Will it not kill at least a million? The expert on earlier did a spread sheet excel thingy showing a million deaths relating to the virus in Britain alone!

Do pay attention - I said that may happen if measures are not taken to limit spread - or do I need to break out the crayons and draw simple little diagrams for you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:35:11 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 17, 2020, 07:20:47 PM
The wilful ignorance of so many here or the terrible mathematical abilities.

Its a good filter  ;D

Maybe they should use it when deciding who should get a ventilator or not!   [joking!]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 17, 2020, 07:35:52 PM
Youse are getting sidetracked here.

The experts in the UK are hoping to keep the deaths below 20,000, that'll be considered a "good outcome."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-coronavirus-death-toll-nhs-latest-outbreak-pandemic-a9407311.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 07:41:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:24:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 06:46:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 04:04:58 PM
It's a relatively weak pandemic

-It doesn't strike uniformly across the population
-It is expected to be less lethal than the flu of winter 2017/18 which killed 50,000 people in the UK. And that was just the flu.

The real thing would kill more than 10,000 people in the Republic and hospitalise 120,000.

So there is a a lot of unnecessary panic.

Who expects it to kill less than 50,000 in the UK? Boris Johnson?
It is more infectious than flu typically is, and it will kill 0.5% of people even if they receive treatment. Assume half the people get it, that's 180,000. Since that number haven't a hope of  receiving treatment the death rate would  be like half a million.

Will it not kill at least a million? The expert on earlier did a spread sheet excel thingy showing a million deaths relating to the virus in Britain alone!

A million is probably at the upper end of the range.
There won't be a million now that people are beginning to cop on.

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 17, 2020, 07:35:52 PM
Youse are getting sidetracked here.

The experts in the UK are hoping to keep the deaths below 20,000, that'll be considered a "good outcome."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-coronavirus-death-toll-nhs-latest-outbreak-pandemic-a9407311.html

20,000 would be  good work. However in the video on that page he takes about 1 death per 1000 cases, i.e. 0.1% death rate.
This has not been the experience elsewhere. I doubt the WHO would expect much less  than 0.4%. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".
Usual death rate of the population for everything.
Flu wouldn't be the top cause of death most years.

Smoking kills more people than coronavirus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 17, 2020, 07:42:20 PM
According to this:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-cannot-be-stopped-but-can-be-slowed-says-varadkar-1.4197969

Ireland's (the 26 only) best case scenario is 25% of people infected with a 1% death rate. I make that 12,000 dead.

Worst case scenario: 75% of people infected with a 3% death rate. I make that 108,000 dead.

People need to see these numbers if they're going to take this seriously.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:33:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:24:40 PM
Will it not kill at least a million? The expert on earlier did a spread sheet excel thingy showing a million deaths relating to the virus in Britain alone!

Do pay attention - I said that may happen if measures are not taken to limit spread - or do I need to break out the crayons and draw simple little diagrams for you?

What you really need to do is stop talking shite, what will happen, will happen,  the doomsday scenario may happen and the numbers you predict might not.

One things for sure, some people thrive on hyperbole and become experts.  This is a brand new virus that no one can/could predict with any real certainty, there was going to be a new pandemic that would globally hit us, we thought it would be swine/bird/SARS, luckily they didn't, this could, but for me anyways this fall way short of yearly starvation rates possibly global flu rates currently. Granted we won't know for a year.

As for how this virus was started, serious questions need to be asked and assurances that measures need fixed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 17, 2020, 07:46:39 PM
69 new cases in the 26 today and 10 in the 6.
Emergency Legislation to be rushed through the Oireachtas Thursday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 07:47:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:30:37 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 06:49:50 PM
Sorry perhaps I'm just not getting your figures but 0.1 % to 1% is 0.9 difference , where does the 1000% come in ?

If you have 100 cans of beer and someone else has 50% of the cans of beer you do, they have 50 cans. If they have 100% of the cans you do, they also have 100 cans of beer.


If normal flu has a mortality rate of 0.1% - 1 person per one thousand dies of it.
If Covid has a a mortality rate of 1% - 10 people per one thousand die of it.

10 x 100% = Covid is 1000% worse than flu.

Still doesn't make sense to me , 0.1 is 1/10 of 1% . Where  does this 1000% comes from ?

If Tom the contracts manger gets 100k per year , the foreman Pat gets 70.1% of that , and jack the ganger gets only 70% of what Tom gets .

How is pat on 1000% more than jack with his 0.1 % .

Like I said I left school after junior cert and am an aul construction worker so I'm obviously wrong but I can't get my head around it at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:54:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:33:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:24:40 PM
Will it not kill at least a million? The expert on earlier did a spread sheet excel thingy showing a million deaths relating to the virus in Britain alone!

Do pay attention - I said that may happen if measures are not taken to limit spread - or do I need to break out the crayons and draw simple little diagrams for you?

What you really need to do is stop talking shite, what will happen, will happen,  the doomsday scenario may happen and the numbers you predict might not.

No, what will happen will greatly depend on how much diligence people pay to isolation and separation. If you'd bother to pay attention you might realise that.


Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
but for me anyways this fall way short of yearly starvation rates possibly global flu rates currently. Granted we won't know for a year.

:o What special kind of thick are you?

When people quote mortality rates, that is per head of population. When this spreads across the world, and it will, its far too large to contain now - those higher mortality rates will be translated into higher global death rates.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
As for how this virus was started, serious questions need to be asked and assurances that measures need fixed

Like some poor wee f**ker in China struggling to put food on the table for their family will care about your questions and what you think.

A different flavour of coronavirus will come back, we've had 3 within 20 years. It'll only be a matter of time to the next one - question is can be be squashed while still local to the index patient.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 07:55:45 PM
I think I get it now lol. Move on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:59:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".
Usual death rate of the population for everything.
Flu wouldn't be the top cause of death most years.

Smoking kills more people than coronavirus.

???

So you are defining a pandemic as something that has a significantly higher kill rate than everything else combined?

No definition of pandemic that I've seen includes such qualifications.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 08:07:14 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:54:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:33:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:24:40 PM
Will it not kill at least a million? The expert on earlier did a spread sheet excel thingy showing a million deaths relating to the virus in Britain alone!

Do pay attention - I said that may happen if measures are not taken to limit spread - or do I need to break out the crayons and draw simple little diagrams for you?

What you really need to do is stop talking shite, what will happen, will happen,  the doomsday scenario may happen and the numbers you predict might not.

No, what will happen will greatly depend on how much diligence people pay to isolation and separation. If you'd bother to pay attention you might realise that.


Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
but for me anyways this fall way short of yearly starvation rates possibly global flu rates currently. Granted we won't know for a year.

:o What special kind of thick are you?

When people quote mortality rates, that is per head of population. When this spreads across the world, and it will, its far too large to contain now - those higher mortality rates will be translated into higher global death rates.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
As for how this virus was started, serious questions need to be asked and assurances that measures need fixed

Like some poor wee f**ker in China struggling to put food on the table for their family will care about your questions and what you think.

A different flavour of coronavirus will come back, we've had 3 within 20 years. It'll only be a matter of time to the next one - question is can be be squashed while still local to the index patient.

Good, you cleared that all up.

Your mathematical solutions have solved everything
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 17, 2020, 08:23:13 PM
An Taoiseach to address the nation at 9pm on rte1, virgin media 1 and Radio 1. Feels like we are in a movie at the moment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 17, 2020, 08:23:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 08:07:14 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:54:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:33:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:24:40 PM
Will it not kill at least a million? The expert on earlier did a spread sheet excel thingy showing a million deaths relating to the virus in Britain alone!

Do pay attention - I said that may happen if measures are not taken to limit spread - or do I need to break out the crayons and draw simple little diagrams for you?

What you really need to do is stop talking shite, what will happen, will happen,  the doomsday scenario may happen and the numbers you predict might not.

No, what will happen will greatly depend on how much diligence people pay to isolation and separation. If you'd bother to pay attention you might realise that.


Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
but for me anyways this fall way short of yearly starvation rates possibly global flu rates currently. Granted we won't know for a year.

:o What special kind of thick are you?

When people quote mortality rates, that is per head of population. When this spreads across the world, and it will, its far too large to contain now - those higher mortality rates will be translated into higher global death rates.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
As for how this virus was started, serious questions need to be asked and assurances that measures need fixed

Like some poor wee f**ker in China struggling to put food on the table for their family will care about your questions and what you think.

A different flavour of coronavirus will come back, we've had 3 within 20 years. It'll only be a matter of time to the next one - question is can be be squashed while still local to the index patient.

Good, you cleared that all up.

Your mathematical solutions have solved everything

Cut it out, the pair of you. Youse are like a married couple.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 08:49:39 PM
https://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html?fbclid=IwAR21dhXr12FgDoyerhNZV9V9u_qoY8T3aAtli-fWa3SdKLWsbU44A2PTemY 

Scary debt we have there although I'm not sure I understand it now after this lesson I got in here . Seems heavy though






Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 08:51:21 PM
I am on another forum with mostly British people. Lots of chat like this, except there are more people of an overreaction frame of mind. One regular just posted that his pregnant 40year old wife had just died from Covid19. Now I never met the man and a sample of one does not alter the statistics, but it does bring it home.

Smoking may kill more people, although this virus will take a toll of smokers too, but generally smokers kill themselves the rest of us actually discourage them. We do not carry "smoking" to them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 17, 2020, 08:58:36 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:54:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:33:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:24:40 PM
Will it not kill at least a million? The expert on earlier did a spread sheet excel thingy showing a million deaths relating to the virus in Britain alone!

Do pay attention - I said that may happen if measures are not taken to limit spread - or do I need to break out the crayons and draw simple little diagrams for you?

What you really need to do is stop talking shite, what will happen, will happen,  the doomsday scenario may happen and the numbers you predict might not.

No, what will happen will greatly depend on how much diligence people pay to isolation and separation. If you'd bother to pay attention you might realise that.


Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
but for me anyways this fall way short of yearly starvation rates possibly global flu rates currently. Granted we won't know for a year.

:o What special kind of thick are you?

When people quote mortality rates, that is per head of population. When this spreads across the world, and it will, its far too large to contain now - those higher mortality rates will be translated into higher global death rates.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 07:45:05 PM
As for how this virus was started, serious questions need to be asked and assurances that measures need fixed

Like some poor wee f**ker in China struggling to put food on the table for their family will care about your questions and what you think.

A different flavour of coronavirus will come back, we've had 3 within 20 years. It'll only be a matter of time to the next one - question is can be be squashed while still local to the index patient.
Doll in work today said she saw a Facebook video where somebody (an American nut no doubt) said the Chinese genetically engineered the virus and released it destroy then take over the global economy. James Bond stuff.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 17, 2020, 08:59:22 PM
I have a brother who is a heavy smoker and a taxi driver in Lurgan. God knows how many people he comes into contact with every day. This is really scaring the crap out of me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 09:10:36 PM
Waiting on Leo thanking the Gaaboarders!

Nope, he just ran them down!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 09:16:19 PM
Absolutely no substance to that address to the nation
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on March 17, 2020, 09:29:08 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 09:16:19 PM
Absolutely no substance to that address to the nation

To be fair what he is dealing with (the virus) has no substance. There is a lot of the unknown ahead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: An Watcher on March 17, 2020, 09:30:30 PM
No fan of Leo but thought that was a very good speech in the circumstances
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on March 17, 2020, 09:31:23 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 09:16:19 PM
Absolutely no substance to that address to the nation

Under the circumstances I thought he did pretty well.

Who would you rather have in charge, Leo or Boris?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 17, 2020, 09:32:04 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on March 17, 2020, 09:30:30 PM
No fan of Leo but thought that was a very good speech in the circumstances
Yer hole. Didn't once try to explain 1000% of something.

1000% is 10 times too much.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 17, 2020, 09:49:32 PM
It was just repetitive rhetoric . What I want to hear is how the f**k are we going to achieve social distancing in the work place , why the reluctance to lockdown sectors that can't achieve social distancing?  Public transport ! Why not reduce capacity etc etc . You're only advising people to not have parties , other countries like France have fines if you're caught going out without reason . My 19 yr old daughter just showed me a house in swords with 70 plus teenagers in it at a party .

I don't believe it's getting through to a fair chunk of people and that's why you need heavy handed approach
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 17, 2020, 09:50:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 17, 2020, 09:32:04 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on March 17, 2020, 09:30:30 PM
No fan of Leo but thought that was a very good speech in the circumstances
Yer hole. Didn't once try to explain 1000% of something.

1000% is 10 times too much.

Is it not 100?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 09:55:22 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 17, 2020, 09:50:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2020, 09:41:28 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 17, 2020, 09:32:04 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on March 17, 2020, 09:30:30 PM
No fan of Leo but thought that was a very good speech in the circumstances
Yer hole. Didn't once try to explain 1000% of something.

1000% is 10 times too much.

Is it not 100?

Is that net?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on March 17, 2020, 10:00:09 PM
It's more then what the idiot up North Arlene Foster is taking.
If Boris Johnson said jump in the fire she would, just to feel British.
The Republic might take all the measures but its no use if 6 counties on the same island aren't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 10:11:14 PM
So how do you claim a 3 month mortgage holiday?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on March 17, 2020, 10:21:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 10:11:14 PM
So how do you claim a 3 month mortgage holiday?

Does it also apply to BTL mortgages so it can be passed on to tenants who could be in trouble?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on March 17, 2020, 10:28:55 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 17, 2020, 09:32:04 PM
Yer hole. Didn't once try to explain 1000% of something.

What did your Prime Minister have to say?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 10:31:37 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 17, 2020, 10:28:55 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 17, 2020, 09:32:04 PM
Yer hole. Didn't once try to explain 1000% of something.

What did your Prime Minister have to say?

He's trying to flatten the sombrero!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 10:33:12 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 17, 2020, 10:21:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 10:11:14 PM
So how do you claim a 3 month mortgage holiday?

Does it also apply to BTL mortgages so it can be passed on to tenants who could be in trouble?

Never mentioned helping people with rent, so those greedy landlords are quids in
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 17, 2020, 10:39:23 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 17, 2020, 10:33:29 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 17, 2020, 10:28:55 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 17, 2020, 09:32:04 PM
Yer hole. Didn't once try to explain 1000% of something.

What did your Prime Minister have to say?
A whole pile of stuff about financial support. Keep up, Ambrose ffs.
Tbf though Varadkar already done that as far back as 9th March when he outlined SSP increase etc. I work for a northern company who operate in South and who don't pay any sick, so this will be a lifeline to me
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on March 17, 2020, 10:42:17 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 17, 2020, 10:33:29 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 17, 2020, 10:28:55 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 17, 2020, 09:32:04 PM
Yer hole. Didn't once try to explain 1000% of something.

What did your Prime Minister have to say?
A whole pile of stuff about financial support. Keep up, Ambrose ffs. People have enough to be worrying about without having to take the likes of you by the hand.

You stick to your 'Dirua' thread and we'll all be grand.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2020, 10:44:02 PM
800 job losses in one bar group
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bannside on March 17, 2020, 10:53:51 PM
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1240022739639062530?s=12

Outstanding leadership from Leo Varadkar.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ned on March 17, 2020, 11:03:47 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:31:49 PM
Quote from: ned on March 17, 2020, 06:50:34 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".

Your maths is wrong. Should be 100% and 500% but your point is still valid. Some just won't be told.

Sorry, its not.

100% of 0.1% is still 0.1%

1000% of 0.1% is 1.0%

Oops, started something there!  :-[
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 17, 2020, 11:35:25 PM
You know what this thread needs? Another three pages of people bickering about how to calculate percentages.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: WT4E on March 18, 2020, 12:56:54 AM
Sorry I haven't read back trying to keep off internet these days but I have a question.

If UK are saying that 20000 deaths would be a good result (total population 70m approx)

And china have total deaths of approx 4000 and appear to be coming out the other side (total population 1.4bn approx)

Why is the trend so different?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 18, 2020, 01:28:21 AM
China isn't finished. Once they release the lockdown they'll have more cases, although they'll be watching out for them this time.

You could only clear the thing by testing everyone and then by testing or quarantining arrivals at airports.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: WT4E on March 18, 2020, 07:33:02 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2020, 01:28:21 AM
China isn't finished. Once they release the lockdown they'll have more cases, although they'll be watching out for them this time.

You could only clear the thing by testing everyone and then by testing or quarantining arrivals at airports.

So you would be expecting nearly 0.5 million dead in China once it's finished even when only 4000 have died so far?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 07:46:10 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2020, 01:28:21 AM
China isn't finished. Once they release the lockdown they'll have more cases, although they'll be watching out for them this time.

You could only clear the thing by testing everyone and then by testing or quarantining arrivals at airports.

I think the China figures might possibly be manipulated by the Chinese Communist Party. They wasted a lot of time at the beginning . They remind me a bit of Fianna Fail.

https://www.ft.com/content/1783dd06-6288-11ea-b3f3-fe4680ea68b5

In recent weeks, the Communist party has sought to cast Mr Xi as the only person capable of leading the country through a health crisis that has killed more than 3,000 people in mainland China and infected more than 80,000.

https://www.ft.com/content/1783dd06-6288-11ea-b3f3-fe4680ea68b5

Video footage circulating online last week appeared to show Wuhan residents shouting from their flats at Sun Chunlan, the vice-premier, who was on a tour demonstrating the success of quarantine measures. "It's fake, it's fake!" residents screamed from their balconies, as the entourage moved between buildings.

https://www.ft.com/content/1783dd06-6288-11ea-b3f3-fe4680ea68b5

Mr Xi's appearance in the city of about 11m, which is still under a strict quarantine, will allow the Communist party to declare an early victory in the fight against the disease, despite criticism of its handling of the crisis.

There seems to be more of a focus on the optics than anything else.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 18, 2020, 07:51:03 AM
Does anyone really believe that less than 4000 have died in China. I'd be unsurprised to find that number missing a zero. That makes it a tenfold increase to 40,000  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 07:52:27 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:59:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".
Usual death rate of the population for everything.
Flu wouldn't be the top cause of death most years.

Smoking kills more people than coronavirus.

???

So you are defining a pandemic as something that has a significantly higher kill rate than everything else combined?

No definition of pandemic that I've seen includes such qualifications.

Pandemic is an ominous world. The issue is fear.
Proportionality goes out the window.
Maybe we need a pandemic scale similar to what exists for hurricanes.

If the Spanish flu was a 10 this might be a 3 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 07:54:00 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 18, 2020, 07:51:03 AM
Does anyone really believe that less than 4000 have died in China. I'd be unsurprised to find that number missing a zero. That makes it a tenfold increase to 40,000  ;)
Some American expert said that for every death there are 800 real cases.
China's numbers just stopped suddenly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ned on March 18, 2020, 07:59:08 AM
Quote from: WT4E on March 18, 2020, 07:33:02 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2020, 01:28:21 AM
China isn't finished. Once they release the lockdown they'll have more cases, although they'll be watching out for them this time.

You could only clear the thing by testing everyone and then by testing or quarantining arrivals at airports.

So you would be expecting nearly 0.5 million dead in China once it's finished even when only 4000 have died so far?

Chinese may see that as a result as approximately 10 million die per year there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 08:21:00 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2020, 01:28:21 AM
China isn't finished. Once they release the lockdown they'll have more cases, although they'll be watching out for them this time.

You could only clear the thing by testing everyone and then by testing or quarantining arrivals at airports.

China had
79932 cases on March 1
81003 cases on March 15

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 18, 2020, 09:32:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 08:21:00 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2020, 01:28:21 AM
China isn't finished. Once they release the lockdown they'll have more cases, although they'll be watching out for them this time.

You could only clear the thing by testing everyone and then by testing or quarantining arrivals at airports.

China had
79932 cases on March 1
81003 cases on March 15

Officially of course  doesn't stack up.

All about the PR.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 18, 2020, 09:42:22 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 07:52:27 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:59:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".
Usual death rate of the population for everything.
Flu wouldn't be the top cause of death most years.

Smoking kills more people than coronavirus.

???

So you are defining a pandemic as something that has a significantly higher kill rate than everything else combined?

No definition of pandemic that I've seen includes such qualifications.

Pandemic is an ominous world. The issue is fear.
Proportionality goes out the window.
Maybe we need a pandemic scale similar to what exists for hurricanes.

If the Spanish flu was a 10 this might be a 3

What are you on about?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 09:58:07 AM
In the twentieth century the world was hit by three influenza pandemics:

1. Spanish Flu, 1918 (H1N1): This is seen as by far the most deadly influenza pandemic in
recorded history (400 years). In a normal flu 90% of the deaths are people older than 65
years. However, 99% of the deaths caused by the Spanish Flu in 1918 were people under
age 65. Some assessments have indicated that its death toll worldwide was as high as 40- 50 million people. However it is unclear as to how much these deaths were actually caused
by the Spanish Flu and how many of them were actually due to other consequential reasons
or as result of several factors.

2. Asian flu, 1957: The global death toll resulted in around 2 million (in the US this meant
an additional 70,000 deaths that year), significantly lower than in 1918. It is also
remarkable that the deaths were this time more amongst elderly persons and infants. The
picture looks more like a normal seasonal flu, but with a much higher infection rate - more
than 25% of the population.

3. Hong Kong flu, 1968: This flu had a similar pattern to the 1957 pandemic, but with
clearly fewer deaths (36,000 in the US)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 10:27:46 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/terrifying-data-behind-government-coronavirus-lockdown/

The public reacted with fury last week when the government took much a lighter approach than other countries, allowing people to think that their older friends and relatives were being put at risk.

Britain has now pivoted and moved to a strategy of virus suppression. It's the path the World Health Organisation (WHO) has called for from the outset, and the one which China pioneered and virtually all other developed countries are now following.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 10:30:30 AM
OWC news from Richie Sunak

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/17/chancellor-unleashes-330bn-bailout-rescue-uk-economy-coronavirus/

"Rishi Sunak has unveiled a £350 billion bailout to help keep businesses and households afloat during the coronavirus crisis.

The Chancellor announced £330 billion in Government-backed loans for firms of all sizes so they can keep paying employees' wages – the equivalent of 15 per cent of UK GDP.

There will also be £20 billion in giveaways, including grants of up to £25,000 for small firms, and a full year without business rates for all retail, hospitality and leisure businesses.

Boris Johnson, the Prime Minister, said he and the Chancellor were acting "like any wartime government" by doing "whatever it takes to support our economy".

Mortgage lenders will give homeowners payment holidays of up to three months if they have been financially impacted by coronavirus, with help for renters in the pipeline.

Mr Sunak made it clear there would be more to come but stopped short of the help made available in some other countries, such as the suspension of household bills."

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 18, 2020, 10:58:35 AM
What virus? Seen video footage of Liverpool city centre partying like it was 1999 yesterday. Thousands in Concert Sq, in the pubs and clubs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armamike on March 18, 2020, 11:41:13 AM
Governments can't trust people to act responsibly.  The south moved quickly after the footage in temple bar last weekend.  The same will happen in the UK. People need to be told what to do, not asked.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 18, 2020, 12:25:06 PM
Quote from: Armamike on March 18, 2020, 11:41:13 AM
Governments can't trust people to act responsibly.  The south moved quickly after the footage in temple bar last weekend.  The same will happen in the UK. People need to be told what to do, not asked.

Exactly. It's not that social distancing doesn't work, it's that people wont do it. Went into a shop earlier and there was a sign that says please keep your distance while waiting in the queue. This man is standing there breathing over my shoulder ...I edge forwards and he does the same. Told him to move back. People are just stupid.

People alone cannot be relied upon to stop this spreading. It's why the government will eventually have to take some serious action soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theticklemister on March 18, 2020, 12:28:29 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 18, 2020, 10:58:35 AM
What virus? Seen video footage of Liverpool city centre partying like it was 1999 yesterday. Thousands in Concert Sq, in the pubs and clubs.

I was in me bed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 18, 2020, 12:36:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 07:52:27 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:59:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".
Usual death rate of the population for everything.
Flu wouldn't be the top cause of death most years.

Smoking kills more people than coronavirus.

???

So you are defining a pandemic as something that has a significantly higher kill rate than everything else combined?

No definition of pandemic that I've seen includes such qualifications.

Pandemic is an ominous world. The issue is fear.
Proportionality goes out the window.
Maybe we need a pandemic scale similar to what exists for hurricanes.

If the Spanish flu was a 10 this might be a 3

Based on what? Spanish Flu was in a different time and place, different levels of medicine, treatment, poverty etc. That doesnt mean it was more than 3 times more potent than Covid-19. You are using very dangerous language on here down playing the seriousness of this situation. You should stop before you cause harm.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2020, 12:38:43 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 18, 2020, 12:36:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 07:52:27 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:59:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".
Usual death rate of the population for everything.
Flu wouldn't be the top cause of death most years.

Smoking kills more people than coronavirus.

???

So you are defining a pandemic as something that has a significantly higher kill rate than everything else combined?

No definition of pandemic that I've seen includes such qualifications.

Pandemic is an ominous world. The issue is fear.
Proportionality goes out the window.
Maybe we need a pandemic scale similar to what exists for hurricanes.

If the Spanish flu was a 10 this might be a 3

Based on what? Spanish Flu was in a different time and place, different levels of medicine, treatment, poverty etc. That doesnt mean it was more than 3 times more potent than Covid-19. You are using very dangerous language on here down playing the seriousness of this situation. You should stop before you cause harm.

Dangerous language ? How many people do you actually think take the advice of complete strangers with no real background in this, seriously?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 18, 2020, 12:45:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2020, 12:38:43 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 18, 2020, 12:36:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 07:52:27 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:59:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".
Usual death rate of the population for everything.
Flu wouldn't be the top cause of death most years.

Smoking kills more people than coronavirus.

???

So you are defining a pandemic as something that has a significantly higher kill rate than everything else combined?

No definition of pandemic that I've seen includes such qualifications.

Pandemic is an ominous world. The issue is fear.
Proportionality goes out the window.
Maybe we need a pandemic scale similar to what exists for hurricanes.

If the Spanish flu was a 10 this might be a 3

Based on what? Spanish Flu was in a different time and place, different levels of medicine, treatment, poverty etc. That doesnt mean it was more than 3 times more potent than Covid-19. You are using very dangerous language on here down playing the seriousness of this situation. You should stop before you cause harm.

Dangerous language ? How many people do you actually think take the advice of complete strangers with no real background in this, seriously?

You would be surprised how many would.

There are people out there who think mental health is not a real issue.

There are people who are more likely to take advice from someone on the pub rather than a doctor.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on March 18, 2020, 12:52:59 PM
The government over here are going to have to do more, don't even want to think about how many people who are renting and on zero hours contracts; They'll be let go immediately and the knock on affect financially will be staggering, its a viscous cycle that needs addressing immediately.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theticklemister on March 18, 2020, 01:08:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2020, 12:38:43 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 18, 2020, 12:36:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 07:52:27 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:59:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".
Usual death rate of the population for everything.
Flu wouldn't be the top cause of death most years.

Smoking kills more people than coronavirus.

???

So you are defining a pandemic as something that has a significantly higher kill rate than everything else combined?

No definition of pandemic that I've seen includes such qualifications.

Pandemic is an ominous world. The issue is fear.
Proportionality goes out the window.
Maybe we need a pandemic scale similar to what exists for hurricanes.

If the Spanish flu was a 10 this might be a 3

Based on what? Spanish Flu was in a different time and place, different levels of medicine, treatment, poverty etc. That doesnt mean it was more than 3 times more potent than Covid-19. You are using very dangerous language on here down playing the seriousness of this situation. You should stop before you cause harm.

Dangerous language ? How many people do you actually think take the advice of complete strangers with no real background in this, seriously?

For the last ten years I've to this board for advice and news before any media company
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 18, 2020, 01:10:44 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 18, 2020, 09:32:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 08:21:00 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2020, 01:28:21 AM
China isn't finished. Once they release the lockdown they'll have more cases, although they'll be watching out for them this time.

You could only clear the thing by testing everyone and then by testing or quarantining arrivals at airports.

China had
79932 cases on March 1
81003 cases on March 15

Officially of course  doesn't stack up.

All about the PR.

South Korea had less new cases yesterday than Australia. Is this because they have taking measures or are they just faking the stats?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 18, 2020, 01:28:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2020, 01:10:44 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 18, 2020, 09:32:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 08:21:00 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2020, 01:28:21 AM
China isn't finished. Once they release the lockdown they'll have more cases, although they'll be watching out for them this time.

You could only clear the thing by testing everyone and then by testing or quarantining arrivals at airports.

China had
79932 cases on March 1
81003 cases on March 15

Officially of course  doesn't stack up.

All about the PR.

South Korea had less new cases yesterday than Australia. Is this because they have taking measures or are they just faking the stats?

They may well be cooking the books but going by their Foreign Minister on BBC they are carrying out serious testing and tracking including the use of apps. They are much more advanced technologically than most/if not all European countries.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 18, 2020, 01:42:32 PM
Itchy must think Seafóid is a right Oracle!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2020, 01:45:09 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on March 18, 2020, 01:08:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2020, 12:38:43 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 18, 2020, 12:36:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 07:52:27 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:59:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".
Usual death rate of the population for everything.
Flu wouldn't be the top cause of death most years.

Smoking kills more people than coronavirus.

???

So you are defining a pandemic as something that has a significantly higher kill rate than everything else combined?

No definition of pandemic that I've seen includes such qualifications.

Pandemic is an ominous world. The issue is fear.
Proportionality goes out the window.
Maybe we need a pandemic scale similar to what exists for hurricanes.

If the Spanish flu was a 10 this might be a 3

Based on what? Spanish Flu was in a different time and place, different levels of medicine, treatment, poverty etc. That doesnt mean it was more than 3 times more potent than Covid-19. You are using very dangerous language on here down playing the seriousness of this situation. You should stop before you cause harm.

Dangerous language ? How many people do you actually think take the advice of complete strangers with no real background in this, seriously?

For the last ten years I've to this board for advice and news before any media company

so you'll take advice on medical issues? there are some professional medics on here and ive taken on some advice, but I'll ask a doctor
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 18, 2020, 02:01:40 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 18, 2020, 01:28:26 PM
They may well be cooking the books but going by their Foreign Minister on BBC they are carrying out serious testing and tracking including the use of apps. They are much more advanced technologically than most/if not all European countries.

Apps and analytics have a role to play, but most of this hard graft,; testing and contact tracing. In Italy, in Vò, one of the first hard hit towns, they eliminated the pox from the whole town by testing everyone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 18, 2020, 02:05:12 PM
If these idiots can make a u-turn so can you seafoid.
https://mobile.twitter.com/newschambers/status/1240173030787211274
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 18, 2020, 02:30:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2020, 02:01:40 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 18, 2020, 01:28:26 PM
They may well be cooking the books but going by their Foreign Minister on BBC they are carrying out serious testing and tracking including the use of apps. They are much more advanced technologically than most/if not all European countries.

Apps and analytics have a role to play, but most of this hard graft,; testing and contact tracing. In Italy, in Vò, one of the first hard hit towns, they eliminated the pox from the whole town by testing everyone.

I think the apps etc help in contract tracing.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theticklemister on March 18, 2020, 02:31:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2020, 01:45:09 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on March 18, 2020, 01:08:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2020, 12:38:43 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 18, 2020, 12:36:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 07:52:27 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 07:59:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 17, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Relative to.the commonly accepted definition of a pandemic.
Mortality 150% of the usual.

It looks like being nowhere near that..

Obviously we need to reduce infection rates but I honestly think the level of panic is overdone.

150% of the usual what?

If mortality rate of "usual" flu is 0.1%, and COVID-19 is 1%, then that is 1000% of "the usual". Current estimates are COVID-19 has mortality rate nearer 5%, so just the 5000% of "the usual" - assuming you are using flu as your yardstick for "the usual".
Usual death rate of the population for everything.
Flu wouldn't be the top cause of death most years.

Smoking kills more people than coronavirus.

???

So you are defining a pandemic as something that has a significantly higher kill rate than everything else combined?

No definition of pandemic that I've seen includes such qualifications.

Pandemic is an ominous world. The issue is fear.
Proportionality goes out the window.
Maybe we need a pandemic scale similar to what exists for hurricanes.

If the Spanish flu was a 10 this might be a 3

Based on what? Spanish Flu was in a different time and place, different levels of medicine, treatment, poverty etc. That doesnt mean it was more than 3 times more potent than Covid-19. You are using very dangerous language on here down playing the seriousness of this situation. You should stop before you cause harm.

Dangerous language ? How many people do you actually think take the advice of complete strangers with no real background in this, seriously?

For the last ten years I've to this board for advice and news before any media company

so you'll take advice on medical issues? there are some professional medics on here and ive taken on some advice, but I'll ask a doctor

Ah jesus lad, tongue-in-cheek. If we don't have a clue about the inside mark on this board; then we're fucked to when it determines a sprained finger for fucksake.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 02:36:45 PM
UK latest


Sir Patrick Vallance
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-hospitalisation-rates-revealed-80-per-cent-infected/


Up to 30 per cent of people who are hospitalised due to the coronavirus will need intensive care, a stark report has warned, as cases in the UK near 2,000

Close to five per cent of the UK population will need to be treated in hospital for an average of 10 days during the epidemic, and almost a third of these people will need intensive care.

In the new modelling, produced by the MRC Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis at Imperial College London, hospitalisation rates are dramatically worse than those previously announced by the Government.
This is due to the "refinement of estimates of likely intensive care unit demand due to Covid-19 based on experience in Italy and the UK," the report says.
Previous predictions assumed that demand would be 50 per cent lower than experts now expect. But updated data from Britain and Italy - where hospitals have been overwhelmed and 2,158 people have died - have demonstrated that previous assumptions, based on experience with viral pneumonia, were far too low.
The NHS has also provided increasing certainty about the limitations of hospital surge capacity, revealing that the UK does not have nearly enough resources.
"Mitigation is unlikely to be feasible without emergency surge capacity limits of the UK and US healthcare systems being exceeded many times over," the study says - estimating that even under the most optimistic scenario, bed requirements will be exceeded at least eight-fold.
This could also have devastating consequences for the fatality rate. Based on data currently available, 9.3 per cent of patients 80 or over and 5.1 per cent of those aged 70-79 will die from Covid-19, even if they received hospital treatment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 18, 2020, 03:11:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 02:36:45 PM
Previous predictions assumed that demand would be 50 per cent lower than experts now expect. But updated data from Britain and Italy - where hospitals have been overwhelmed and 2,158 people have died - have demonstrated that previous assumptions, based on experience with viral pneumonia, were far too low.

No harm to the inept f**kers in Whitehall, but the Chinese were saying that 32% of cases presented needed ICU treatment in January.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30183-5/fulltext

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 18, 2020, 04:02:36 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 18, 2020, 02:05:12 PM
If these idiots can make a u-turn so can you seafoid.
https://mobile.twitter.com/newschambers/status/1240173030787211274

How the feck can anyone in their right mind ever take anything any one of these people ever says seriously again. I'm not sure how they even did in the first place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 18, 2020, 04:02:54 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 18, 2020, 03:11:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 02:36:45 PM
Previous predictions assumed that demand would be 50 per cent lower than experts now expect. But updated data from Britain and Italy - where hospitals have been overwhelmed and 2,158 people have died - have demonstrated that previous assumptions, based on experience with viral pneumonia, were far too low.

No harm to the inept f**kers in Whitehall, but the Chinese were saying that 32% of cases presented needed ICU treatment in January.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30183-5/fulltext

Do you really think the British Empire should take account of something from people that they used to sell opium to? Or even a crowd of opera singing pizza makers?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 18, 2020, 04:16:51 PM
6 new cases confirmed in the 6 Cos today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 18, 2020, 04:19:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 18, 2020, 04:16:51 PM
6 new cases confirmed in the 6 Cos today.

so Arlene was right, it is nothing to worry about.......
The Freestate will probably have 80!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on March 18, 2020, 04:24:55 PM
Currently 3 with the virus in the Ulster Hospital in Dundonald (outside Belfast).  The hospital staff are gearing up for it to get very busy from the end of next week, and staff are coming from other areas of the trust (South Eastern) to get trained up in various different areas that are likely to be required.

My sister's a consultant surgeon there - their operations are moving to day procedure units so that main operating theatres can be used for ventilations. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2020, 04:27:05 PM
In work today, Belfast is a empty, though colleagues who operate out of a shopping centre have said they are busy!

I've had all my appointments cancelled today,  which reflects the age group who are more at risk, that's fine I'm happy with that, close contact with anyone with the virus would be a disaster.

Its the long term I'm looking at and how our company will manage to get through this difficult time.

There will be lots of jobs lost through this, and business's wont be able to get through a month of this never mind 3 months or more
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 18, 2020, 04:29:09 PM
Interesting read

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/17/scientists-age-groups-covid-19-workplaces-shops-restaurants
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 04:30:04 PM
https://www.socialeurope.eu/keeping-business-alive-the-government-will-pay
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: The Trap on March 18, 2020, 04:41:13 PM
Good article Seafoid, seems like the easiest way to get through this intact.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 18, 2020, 04:48:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2020, 04:02:54 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 18, 2020, 03:11:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 02:36:45 PM
Previous predictions assumed that demand would be 50 per cent lower than experts now expect. But updated data from Britain and Italy - where hospitals have been overwhelmed and 2,158 people have died - have demonstrated that previous assumptions, based on experience with viral pneumonia, were far too low.

No harm to the inept f**kers in Whitehall, but the Chinese were saying that 32% of cases presented needed ICU treatment in January.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30183-5/fulltext

Do you really think the British Empire should take account of something from people that they used to sell opium to? Or even a crowd of opera singing pizza makers?

Obviously not old chap.

I say COVID-19 may be able to beat these small yellow men or those excitable Southern Europeans, but against the might of the Royal Navy our boys will soon send COVID-19 to Davy Jones' locker.

[That probably was residing somewhere in a corner of Boris's little racist brain till about 3 weeks ago ffs!!]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 18, 2020, 05:09:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 04:30:04 PM
https://www.socialeurope.eu/keeping-business-alive-the-government-will-pay
Hopefully the world may now move away from Anglo American neo liberalism to a more co operative way of doing things.

I see reports all schools in the 6 Cos to close from today?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 18, 2020, 05:56:45 PM
This is Italy...

https://twitter.com/tancredipalmeri/status/1240331177686433793?s=19

God help us if we are on this road
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2020, 05:59:04 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 18, 2020, 05:42:28 PM
Exams out the window by the looks of it.

That's just fecking crazy! My daughters are actually raging
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 18, 2020, 06:01:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2020, 05:59:04 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 18, 2020, 05:42:28 PM
Exams out the window by the looks of it.

That's just fecking crazy! My daughters are actually raging
If it's on predicted grades after mocks my fella is fcuked  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2020, 06:04:17 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 18, 2020, 06:01:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2020, 05:59:04 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 18, 2020, 05:42:28 PM
Exams out the window by the looks of it.

That's just fecking crazy! My daughters are actually raging
If it's on predicted grades after mocks my fella is fcuked  ;D

It's funny my eldest will do better and my youngest who's belted out some cracking results these past five years thinks she's not !

Who knows how they'll sort that out, serious pressure on teachers to come out with those results
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 18, 2020, 07:09:30 PM
Agree that this is a disaster , horrible , unprecedented etc etc but something Must be different about Italy . Does anyone have actual stats for the percentage of Italy's over 65s compared to other nations ?

Back to work today , most are just bantering about it all , doesn't seem to bother them at all if I'm honest .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 18, 2020, 07:13:18 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 18, 2020, 07:09:30 PM
Agree that this is a disaster , horrible , unprecedented etc etc but something Must be different about Italy . Does anyone have actual stats for the percentage of Italy's over 65s compared to other nations ?

Back to work today , most are just bantering about it all , doesn't seem to bother them at all if I'm honest .

Three generations of a family living under one roof. Children at school swapping diseases and then bringing it home to their grandparents.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 18, 2020, 07:14:07 PM
Anyone who isn't bothered about it is a clown. The full scale (and time scale) of this hasn't set in for most people yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 18, 2020, 07:15:26 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 18, 2020, 07:09:30 PM

Back to work today , most are just bantering about it all , doesn't seem to bother them at all if I'm honest .

Most of the people you with with are absolute morons in that case.

Teacher assessment for exam grades by the look of it. The storm that will cause could rage for years.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 18, 2020, 07:17:48 PM
Yeah Italys stats were depressing reading today; hopin some of Eamoncca1 points are true for our sake, also large elderly population and high % smokers too;

hope it slows down v soon for them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 18, 2020, 07:18:13 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 18, 2020, 07:09:30 PM
Agree that this is a disaster , horrible , unprecedented etc etc but something Must be different about Italy . Does anyone have actual stats for the percentage of Italy's over 65s compared to other nations ?

Back to work today , most are just bantering about it all , doesn't seem to bother them at all if I'm honest .

23% of Italy is over 65, 2nd highest in world. Also I read an article where it said the culture in Italy is for the young and old to mix frequently. That said their numbers are dire, I really hope we can avoid that level of carnage. 470 dead in last 24 hours.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on March 18, 2020, 07:37:07 PM
The UK have 104 deaths as of today.  If we / they are tracking at the same rate as Italy the number tomorrow should be approx 145.
Will be interesting to see.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyrone08 on March 18, 2020, 08:14:32 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 18, 2020, 07:37:07 PM
The UK have 104 deaths as of today.  If we / they are tracking at the same rate as Italy the number tomorrow should be approx 145.
Will be interesting to see.

3000 deaths in Italy since 15 Feb. On a normal day (virus aside) there is about 1750 deaths per Day in Italy. Coronavirus is obviously bad but italy had a high death rate per day when compared against other countries. UK for example has a death rate per day of around 1400
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 18, 2020, 08:28:47 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 18, 2020, 08:14:32 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 18, 2020, 07:37:07 PM
The UK have 104 deaths as of today.  If we / they are tracking at the same rate as Italy the number tomorrow should be approx 145.
Will be interesting to see.

3000 deaths in Italy since 15 Feb. On a normal day (virus aside) there is about 1750 deaths per Day in Italy. Coronavirus is obviously bad but italy had a high death rate per day when compared against other countries. UK for example has a death rate per day of around 1400

And of course the Coronavirus deaths are geographically concentrated, there would not be some many of these south of Bologna, although there are an increasing number.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 18, 2020, 08:45:39 PM
https://www.rt.com/news/483437-coronavirus-vaccine-trials-start-who/?fbclid=IwAR252LbKdkblbR6eztSbWC_31taQDIsR2LxmWFafyDv_kPcFJZS0zBuKuLY
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 09:42:11 PM
The rate of increase seems to be slowing down in Italy

Eg deaths increased by 15% from 12 to 13 March
And by 9.7% from 17 to 18 March
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 18, 2020, 09:49:35 PM
Folks, bit nervous about a possible London lockdown on Friday. Driving to get boat home Friday morning. Technically would this be considered essential travel?

Can't bare thought of lockdown in London 😱
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 18, 2020, 10:20:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 09:42:11 PM
The rate of increase seems to be slowing down in Italy

Eg deaths increased by 15% from 12 to 13 March
And by 9.7% from 17 to 18 March

Yep, the lockdown is working, infection rate is down to ~11% today.

[not that the braindead journos here would understand that - they keep quoting absolute figures.]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 18, 2020, 10:26:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 09:42:11 PM
The rate of increase seems to be slowing down in Italy

Eg deaths increased by 15% from 12 to 13 March
And by 9.7% from 17 to 18 March

The lockdown will work, but it is like an oil tanker, you give the order to stop but it takes a while to do so.
But it is hard to get it started again.
Spain is following a similar path.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 18, 2020, 10:27:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 18, 2020, 10:20:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 09:42:11 PM
The rate of increase seems to be slowing down in Italy

Eg deaths increased by 15% from 12 to 13 March
And by 9.7% from 17 to 18 March

Yep, the lockdown is working, infection rate is down to ~11% today.

[not that the braindead journos here would understand that - they keep quoting absolute figures.]

Would you be in favour of lockdown here ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: knockitdown on March 18, 2020, 10:35:18 PM
https://twitter.com/ultanpower/status/1240390292664201223?s=21

Very worrying
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 18, 2020, 10:37:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2020, 08:28:47 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 18, 2020, 08:14:32 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 18, 2020, 07:37:07 PM
The UK have 104 deaths as of today.  If we / they are tracking at the same rate as Italy the number tomorrow should be approx 145.
Will be interesting to see.

3000 deaths in Italy since 15 Feb. On a normal day (virus aside) there is about 1750 deaths per Day in Italy. Coronavirus is obviously bad but italy had a high death rate per day when compared against other countries. UK for example has a death rate per day of around 1400

And of course the Coronavirus deaths are geographically concentrated, there would not be some many of these south of Bologna, although there are an increasing number.

Is there not something as well to do with Northen Italy being the textiles hub and having a very close relationship with Wuhan in China?

That would help explain why the virus as sky rocketed compared to other countries.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 18, 2020, 10:38:19 PM
Quote from: knockitdown on March 18, 2020, 10:35:18 PM
https://twitter.com/ultanpower/status/1240390292664201223?s=21

Very worrying

You think that's not too bad until you realise it's a log graph. Scary.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 18, 2020, 11:20:47 PM
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/cd0cea-an-analysis-of-the-266-cases-of-covid-19-in-ireland-as-of-march-16-2/?fbclid=IwAR3juAnYNaBybwORuQUP2W4F-yybf1mAgzYtU92_V8aqXGS1hFicyD2OqUM
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 19, 2020, 01:21:31 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 18, 2020, 11:20:47 PM
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/cd0cea-an-analysis-of-the-266-cases-of-covid-19-in-ireland-as-of-march-16-2/?fbclid=IwAR3juAnYNaBybwORuQUP2W4F-yybf1mAgzYtU92_V8aqXGS1hFicyD2OqUM

More than half the cases still travel or people they met. Not great, but could be worse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 19, 2020, 08:06:49 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 18, 2020, 10:27:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 18, 2020, 10:20:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 18, 2020, 09:42:11 PM
The rate of increase seems to be slowing down in Italy

Eg deaths increased by 15% from 12 to 13 March
And by 9.7% from 17 to 18 March

Yep, the lockdown is working, infection rate is down to ~11% today.

[not that the braindead journos here would understand that - they keep quoting absolute figures.]

Would you be in favour of lockdown here ?

100%
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 19, 2020, 09:56:49 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-drastic-new-powers-will-allow-authorities-to-lock-down-regions-1.4206261
A further 74 cases of the virus, also known as Covid-19, were reported last night, a record number for the fifth consecutive day. The new cases involve 29 women and 45 men. There are now 366 confirmed cases in the Republic.

Two deaths have been officially confirmed so far.

--------------

2 deaths x 800 = c 1600 true cases
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 19, 2020, 09:58:16 AM
Quote from: knockitdown on March 18, 2020, 10:35:18 PM
https://twitter.com/ultanpower/status/1240390292664201223?s=21

Very worrying

No no no - yer man doesn't understand how it works at all.


Lock down today means cases spread less today. It takes on average around 6-10 days for symptoms to show. So you'll start to see the result of the lockdown in terms of cases found in a week and a half.

It takes on average ~19 days to die of COVID-19 - so you'll start to see the result of the lockdown in terms of number dying in 3 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 19, 2020, 10:14:46 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 19, 2020, 09:58:16 AM
Quote from: knockitdown on March 18, 2020, 10:35:18 PM
https://twitter.com/ultanpower/status/1240390292664201223?s=21

Very worrying

No no no - yer man doesn't understand how it works at all.


Lock down today means cases spread less today. It takes on average around 6-10 days for symptoms to show. So you'll start to see the result of the lockdown in terms of cases found in a week and a half.

It takes on average ~19 days to die of COVID-19 - so you'll start to see the result of the lockdown in terms of number dying in 3 weeks.

It is like stopping an oil tanker, it takes a long time to slow down. Number of deaths is a lagging measure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 19, 2020, 10:21:41 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 19, 2020, 10:14:46 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 19, 2020, 09:58:16 AM
Quote from: knockitdown on March 18, 2020, 10:35:18 PM
https://twitter.com/ultanpower/status/1240390292664201223?s=21

Very worrying

No no no - yer man doesn't understand how it works at all.


Lock down today means cases spread less today. It takes on average around 6-10 days for symptoms to show. So you'll start to see the result of the lockdown in terms of cases found in a week and a half.

It takes on average ~19 days to die of COVID-19 - so you'll start to see the result of the lockdown in terms of number dying in 3 weeks.

It is like stopping an oil tanker, it takes a long time to slow down. Number of deaths is a lagging measure.

The amount of keyboard warriors who don't understand that is unreal..

We haven't peaked yet, blah blah blah, too early to close the schools/pubs/theatres blah blah blah.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 19, 2020, 10:27:36 AM
Exactly. I have stopped reading about it in most avenues. Twitter is a disaster for it. I would never normally be off it for sports and tech related stuff now I don't go near it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: charlieTully on March 19, 2020, 10:56:53 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 19, 2020, 10:27:36 AM
Exactly. I have stopped reading about it in most avenues. Twitter is a disaster for it. I would never normally be off it for sports and tech related stuff now I don't go near it.

Deleted Facebook. Everyone is an expert all of a sudden. Fake news and rumours. I work over 2 acute hospital emergency departments.there is a strange eerie atmosphere. Like being on a countdown. It's hard to keep the anxiety curtailed but you have to get on with it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 19, 2020, 11:04:05 AM
Yeah. Social media doesn't help.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on March 19, 2020, 11:10:21 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 19, 2020, 11:04:05 AM
Yeah. Social media doesn't help.
Agree , but who should we be listening to?  Just World Health?  we need info.  and social media is very useful IF.. you filter the crap
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on March 19, 2020, 11:11:45 AM
EU's chief Brexit negotiator tests positive

Michel Barnier, the EU's chief Brexit negotiator, has tested positive for coronavirus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 19, 2020, 11:20:26 AM
Quote from: Dire Ear on March 19, 2020, 11:10:21 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 19, 2020, 11:04:05 AM
Yeah. Social media doesn't help.
Agree , but who should we be listening to?  Just World Health?  we need info.  and social media is very useful IF.. you filter the crap

That is the question I am not sure I know the answer to. I have a few friends who are "highly qualified" doctors so I message them every once in a while.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on March 19, 2020, 11:24:14 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51958241 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51958241)

First of what you would assume many deaths here in the north.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on March 19, 2020, 11:33:59 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on March 19, 2020, 10:56:53 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 19, 2020, 10:27:36 AM
Exactly. I have stopped reading about it in most avenues. Twitter is a disaster for it. I would never normally be off it for sports and tech related stuff now I don't go near it.

Deleted Facebook. Everyone is an expert all of a sudden. Fake news and rumours. I work over 2 acute hospital emergency departments.there is a strange eerie atmosphere. Like being on a countdown. It's hard to keep the anxiety curtailed but you have to get on with it.

Deleting Facebook is a step in the right direction. Leaving Gaaboard too, probably a good idea, all social media. Social media gives every eggit a voice. People telling us how to wash our hands & cough into our upper arm & not peoples faces, dont invade people's space etc. Is this not basic manners. Anyway we gave a thread on depression/ anxiety might be useful for my wee wans in years to come, with the pandemic of fear and paranoia being spread currently.

Celebrities getting Corona or having potential symptoms and speaking of their experience is now another norm, coming out as having covid hashtag.

Stop the world I want to get off.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 19, 2020, 11:35:35 AM
That last sentence is definitely something that I have thought a lot during this  >:(

RIP to the poor person and hopefully if we all be sensible we can curtail this as much as possible :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: WT4E on March 19, 2020, 11:51:06 AM
Quote from: Rudi on March 19, 2020, 11:33:59 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on March 19, 2020, 10:56:53 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 19, 2020, 10:27:36 AM
Exactly. I have stopped reading about it in most avenues. Twitter is a disaster for it. I would never normally be off it for sports and tech related stuff now I don't go near it.

Deleted Facebook. Everyone is an expert all of a sudden. Fake news and rumours. I work over 2 acute hospital emergency departments.there is a strange eerie atmosphere. Like being on a countdown. It's hard to keep the anxiety curtailed but you have to get on with it.

Deleting Facebook is a step in the right direction. Leaving Gaaboard too, probably a good idea, all social media. Social media gives every eggit a voice. People telling us how to wash our hands & cough into our upper arm & not peoples faces, dont invade people's space etc. Is this not basic manners. Anyway we gave a thread on depression/ anxiety might be useful for my wee wans in years to come, with the pandemic of fear and paranoia being spread currently.

Celebrities getting Corona or having potential symptoms and speaking of their experience is now another norm, coming out as having covid hashtag.

Stop the world I want to get off.

Agree with most of this. I was in a whatsapp group where yesterday I got the 'Please everyone now say the Rosary at 9pm for help' from a person who spent all day in a pub on St Patricks Day. Took everything I had not to lose the plot!!!!

PS  have nothing against the Rosary its just the hypocrisy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 19, 2020, 11:53:27 AM
Quote from: Rudi on March 19, 2020, 11:33:59 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on March 19, 2020, 10:56:53 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 19, 2020, 10:27:36 AM
Exactly. I have stopped reading about it in most avenues. Twitter is a disaster for it. I would never normally be off it for sports and tech related stuff now I don't go near it.

Deleted Facebook. Everyone is an expert all of a sudden. Fake news and rumours. I work over 2 acute hospital emergency departments.there is a strange eerie atmosphere. Like being on a countdown. It's hard to keep the anxiety curtailed but you have to get on with it.

Deleting Facebook is a step in the right direction. Leaving Gaaboard too, probably a good idea, all social media. Social media gives every eggit a voice. People telling us how to wash our hands & cough into our upper arm & not peoples faces, dont invade people's space etc. Is this not basic manners. Anyway we gave a thread on depression/ anxiety might be useful for my wee wans in years to come, with the pandemic of fear and paranoia being spread currently.

Celebrities getting Corona or having potential symptoms and speaking of their experience is now another norm, coming out as having covid hashtag.

Stop the world I want to get off.

But it's not about changing the people who already do this. It' about trying to change the others who don't do it. I understand it can be annoying as feck when you see Tommy down the road, preaching about washing your hands for the 30th time that day, but if it helps to reinforce the message then it's a small help.
For social media it's important to not sweat the small stuff, otherwise you're head would be turned. But it can be a valuable tool.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 11:54:28 AM
A lot of it is the doom and gloom merchants!

Everyone and their dog knows it's tough not getting better soon and so on!

Can you imagine growing up in Africa? Let's put it this way we've got it easy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Denn Forever on March 19, 2020, 12:11:15 PM
z
Quote from: lurganblue on January 23, 2020, 09:52:32 AM
Big scare in the news this morning around a new virus in China.  City on lockdown.  People fecking around with animals again... "This new virus originated in a seafood market in Wuhan that "conducted illegal transactions of wild animals", authorities have said."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51217455 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51217455)

No doubt it wont be long until cases of this arrive in Europe.


How prophetic this was. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 19, 2020, 12:11:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 11:54:28 AM
Can you imagine growing up in Africa? Let's put it this way we've got it easy

Easier for you to relate to this, having grown up in West Belfast.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 19, 2020, 12:15:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 11:54:28 AM
A lot of it is the doom and gloom merchants!

Everyone and their dog knows it's tough not getting better soon and so on!

Can you imagine growing up in Africa? Let's put it this way we've got it easy

I wonder will Africa be badly affected by Covid 19?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 12:16:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 19, 2020, 12:11:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 11:54:28 AM
Can you imagine growing up in Africa? Let's put it this way we've got it easy

Easier for you to relate to this, having grown up in West Belfast.

Again we've got it easy in comparison to what other countries go through annually. Doesn't diminish the pain and suffering families will go through here when this ramps up.

But get some more depressing stats/links up there to cheer everyone up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2020, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 19, 2020, 12:15:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 11:54:28 AM
A lot of it is the doom and gloom merchants!

Everyone and their dog knows it's tough not getting better soon and so on!

Can you imagine growing up in Africa? Let's put it this way we've got it easy

I wonder will Africa be badly affected by Covid 19?

At the moment looks (relatively) fine. I would imagine that's due to the lack of inward travel, dense infrastructure, public transport, atms and that type of thing. Morocco, Egypt and South Africa look to have got the majority of what has hit and they would be some of the more developed African nations.

That said, considering some of the conditions/disease that is rife in Africa, this is probably something they aren't getting too worried about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: MayoBuck on March 19, 2020, 12:45:41 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2020, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 19, 2020, 12:15:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 11:54:28 AM
A lot of it is the doom and gloom merchants!

Everyone and their dog knows it's tough not getting better soon and so on!

Can you imagine growing up in Africa? Let's put it this way we've got it easy

I wonder will Africa be badly affected by Covid 19?

At the moment looks (relatively) fine. I would imagine that's due to the lack of inward travel, dense infrastructure, public transport, atms and that type of thing. Morocco, Egypt and South Africa look to have got the majority of what has hit and they would be some of the more developed African nations.

That said, considering some of the conditions/disease that is rife in Africa, this is probably something they aren't getting too worried about.

Also, this virus is especially harmful to the elderly and in less developed African countries there is a very low percentage of people over 60
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 12:47:36 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on March 19, 2020, 12:45:41 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2020, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 19, 2020, 12:15:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 11:54:28 AM
A lot of it is the doom and gloom merchants!

Everyone and their dog knows it's tough not getting better soon and so on!

Can you imagine growing up in Africa? Let's put it this way we've got it easy

I wonder will Africa be badly affected by Covid 19?

At the moment looks (relatively) fine. I would imagine that's due to the lack of inward travel, dense infrastructure, public transport, atms and that type of thing. Morocco, Egypt and South Africa look to have got the majority of what has hit and they would be some of the more developed African nations.

That said, considering some of the conditions/disease that is rife in Africa, this is probably something they aren't getting too worried about.

Also, this virus is especially harmful to the elderly and in less developed African countries there is a very low percentage of people over 60

Because they are dying of all the other illnesses
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on March 19, 2020, 01:14:45 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on March 19, 2020, 12:45:41 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2020, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 19, 2020, 12:15:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 11:54:28 AM
A lot of it is the doom and gloom merchants!

Everyone and their dog knows it's tough not getting better soon and so on!

Can you imagine growing up in Africa? Let's put it this way we've got it easy

I wonder will Africa be badly affected by Covid 19?

At the moment looks (relatively) fine. I would imagine that's due to the lack of inward travel, dense infrastructure, public transport, atms and that type of thing. Morocco, Egypt and South Africa look to have got the majority of what has hit and they would be some of the more developed African nations.

That said, considering some of the conditions/disease that is rife in Africa, this is probably something they aren't getting too worried about.

Also, this virus is especially harmful to the elderly and in less developed African countries there is a very low percentage of people over 60

I know I shouldn't but this made me laugh. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 19, 2020, 02:04:32 PM
Attended a family funeral this morning. No funeral home, no visitors, no hand shaking, 15 people in the church, 15 people at the grave. Tissues, sanitisers, gloves everywhere. No after drinks or meal. Family now all sitting in their own houses on their own wondering what to do with themselves. Just a very sad and bizarre occasion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 19, 2020, 02:46:14 PM
The Imperial college paper is a grim read  :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 19, 2020, 02:49:38 PM
We must prepare for the fight of our lives. Godspeed everyone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on March 19, 2020, 03:01:23 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 19, 2020, 02:04:32 PM
Attended a family funeral this morning. No funeral home, no visitors, no hand shaking, 15 people in the church, 15 people at the grave. Tissues, sanitisers, gloves everywhere. No after drinks or meal. Family now all sitting in their own houses on their own wondering what to do with themselves. Just a very sad and bizarre occasion.

Sorry to hear that,
I have to say that when I heard of how funerals were being handled in Italy and the associated risks, it was something I thought would sorely impact upon grieving relatives during this crisis whether their bereavement was due to Coronavirus or not.  The Irish way of marking death provides a great source of comfort and the temporary loss of those customs is particularly cruel (albeit necessary) at a time when such traditions would be relied upon more than ever. 

 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 19, 2020, 03:34:50 PM
You could put up with all the stuff but not having a proper funeral is a terrible situation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 19, 2020, 03:40:16 PM
What happens in the scenario where someone does die from it? Are the family even allowed near them? The funeral unrelated to the virus is a bad situation but I don't even know the logistics of the death or the funeral of someone who dies from it. It can't be good.

In fact I really don't even want to think about it :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 19, 2020, 03:46:04 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 19, 2020, 03:40:16 PM
What happens in the scenario where someone does die from it? Are the family even allowed near them? The funeral unrelated to the virus is a bad situation but I don't even know the logistics of the death or the funeral of someone who dies from it. It can't be good.

In fact I really don't even want to think about it :(

As i understand it...
Closed coffin containing bodybag.
Private funeral.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 19, 2020, 03:49:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 19, 2020, 03:34:50 PM
You could put up with all the stuff but not having a proper funeral is a terrible situation.
Do you think funerals are done right here? I think they should be restricted to family and very close friends. At least the nonsense of sitting around for hours shaking hands with loads of people you don't know or rarely talk too and worse of all politicians showing up saying they are sorry for your loss is cut out now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 19, 2020, 03:59:30 PM
China needs low new infection rates to look credible.

The UK had 71 deaths yesterday. CMO said 55000 true cases. Ratio.is c 1: 800

China has 3245 deaths. Multiply by 800 = 2.6 m

Official cases 81,000 or so
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 19, 2020, 04:07:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 19, 2020, 03:59:30 PM
China needs low new infection rates to look credible.

The UK had 71 deaths yesterday. CMO said 55000 true cases. Ratio.is c 1: 800

China has 3245 deaths. Multiply by 800 = 2.6 m

Official cases 81,000 or so

I don't know where you are getting this from. Few people believe the fatality rate is as low as 0.125%, most suggest 3 or 4 times that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on March 19, 2020, 04:13:24 PM
Quote from: five points on March 19, 2020, 03:46:04 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 19, 2020, 03:40:16 PM
What happens in the scenario where someone does die from it? Are the family even allowed near them? The funeral unrelated to the virus is a bad situation but I don't even know the logistics of the death or the funeral of someone who dies from it. It can't be good.

In fact I really don't even want to think about it :(

As i understand it...
Closed coffin containing bodybag.
Private funeral.

Really I had understood the virus couldn't survive the death of the host for lack of a better term and therefore provided there was a closed coffin then the only bar to a normal funeral was social distancing rules and any self isolation that has to occur because of contact between the family members and the deceased whilst they were alive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 19, 2020, 04:16:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 19, 2020, 03:59:30 PM
China needs low new infection rates to look credible.

The UK had 71 deaths yesterday. CMO said 55000 true cases. Ratio.is c 1: 800

Best to stop apply blanket numbers across the board and assuming everything else is equal.

As of 9th March, estimates were that China carried out ~2800 tests per million people. The UK? Less than 350 per million.

So which country do you think is likely to have the highest ratio of unknown cases?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 19, 2020, 04:18:33 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on March 19, 2020, 04:13:24 PM
Really I had understood the virus couldn't survive the death of the host for lack of a better term and therefore provided there was a closed coffin then the only bar to a normal funeral was social distancing rules and any self isolation that has to occur because of contact between the family members and the deceased whilst they were alive.

It'd survive in a dead human body for a time, just as it would survive on a door handle or coat.

Yeah - it will die - but not immediately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 19, 2020, 04:22:28 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 19, 2020, 03:49:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 19, 2020, 03:34:50 PM
You could put up with all the stuff but not having a proper funeral is a terrible situation.
Do you think funerals are done right here?

Absolutely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 19, 2020, 04:25:51 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0319/1124042-coronavirus-ireland/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 19, 2020, 04:33:36 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on March 19, 2020, 04:13:24 PM
Quote from: five points on March 19, 2020, 03:46:04 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 19, 2020, 03:40:16 PM
What happens in the scenario where someone does die from it? Are the family even allowed near them? The funeral unrelated to the virus is a bad situation but I don't even know the logistics of the death or the funeral of someone who dies from it. It can't be good.

In fact I really don't even want to think about it :(

As i understand it...
Closed coffin containing bodybag.
Private funeral.

Really I had understood the virus couldn't survive the death of the host for lack of a better term and therefore provided there was a closed coffin then the only bar to a normal funeral was social distancing rules and any self isolation that has to occur because of contact between the family members and the deceased whilst they were alive.

In Italy military trucks are driving the dead straight from the morgue to be cremated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 19, 2020, 05:02:53 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 19, 2020, 04:16:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 19, 2020, 03:59:30 PM
China needs low new infection rates to look credible.

The UK had 71 deaths yesterday. CMO said 55000 true cases. Ratio.is c 1: 800

Best to stop apply blanket numbers across the board and assuming everything else is equal.

As of 9th March, estimates were that China carried out ~2800 tests per million people. The UK? Less than 350 per million.

So which country do you think is likely to have the highest ratio of unknown cases?

Brits relying heavily on mathematical models to attempt to calculate the number of cases which I think is where the 55,000 number comes from.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/uk/coronavirus-chief-medical-adviser-50000-cases/ (https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/uk/coronavirus-chief-medical-adviser-50000-cases/)

I think they decided on the wrong numbers for hospital admittance's requiring ICU treatment already so credibility is lacking a little bit in Sir Patrick and his team at the minute.

The 20,000 to 250,000 dead is quite scary at either end of the scale.......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 19, 2020, 05:03:56 PM
Quote from: knockitdown on March 18, 2020, 10:35:18 PM
https://twitter.com/ultanpower/status/1240390292664201223?s=21

Very worrying
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETa_1xNXYAYy6i7?format=png&name=small)

Very worrying indeed. Especially when you look at the scale. It's a log scale.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 19, 2020, 05:10:59 PM
Fair play to them.

(https://i.ibb.co/4NCMfpV/Screenshot-20200319-170648-2.png) (https://ibb.co/ggQw7JR)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on March 19, 2020, 05:14:16 PM
O'Neills factory closing temporarily and laying staff off til May.

Devastating effect in Strabane and surrounding areas. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mourne Red on March 19, 2020, 05:42:24 PM
Quote from: Rois on March 19, 2020, 05:14:16 PM
O'Neills factory closing temporarily and laying staff off til May.

Devastating effect in Strabane and surrounding areas.

Disgusting decision, they are getting a business rates holiday and grants (Loan packages I know are not great but I'm sure they could pay them back giving how much they earn). Could have at least waited the week to see how workers pay is going to be saved by UK gov.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 19, 2020, 06:49:36 PM
191 new cases in the 26 today.
Expected to rise substantially in the coming days as testing increases ( and Cheltenham/Spanish holiday people come down with it).
Only aware of 2 cases myself  - 1 a member of Ming's family (announced by himself) and a buck who went to Cheltenham.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 06:53:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 19, 2020, 06:49:36 PM
191 new cases in the 26 today.
Expected to rise substantially in the coming days as testing increases ( and Cheltenham/Spanish holiday people come down with it).
Only aware of 2 cases myself  - 1 a member of Ming's family (announced by himself) and a buck who went to Cheltenham.

With the county taking better measures that England the numbers don't add up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 19, 2020, 06:59:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 06:53:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 19, 2020, 06:49:36 PM
191 new cases in the 26 today.
Expected to rise substantially in the coming days as testing increases ( and Cheltenham/Spanish holiday people come down with it).
Only aware of 2 cases myself  - 1 a member of Ming's family (announced by himself) and a buck who went to Cheltenham.

With the county taking better measures that England the numbers don't add up

3300 in uk and much better testing in Ireland
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 19, 2020, 07:00:26 PM
We are testing like f**k. The majority catching it in Ireland are between 30 and 45 so old people are clearly heading advice better than any. Numbers making sense to me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on March 19, 2020, 07:01:41 PM
So schools are staying open then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 19, 2020, 07:03:55 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 19, 2020, 02:04:32 PM
Attended a family funeral this morning. No funeral home, no visitors, no hand shaking, 15 people in the church, 15 people at the grave. Tissues, sanitisers, gloves everywhere. No after drinks or meal. Family now all sitting in their own houses on their own wondering what to do with themselves. Just a very sad and bizarre occasion.
That sounds terrible, Itchy. The poor family.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 19, 2020, 07:07:43 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0319/1124202-jobs-coronavirus/

The Minister for Social Protection has acknowledged that as many as 400,000 people could lose their jobs here as a result of the Covid-19 outbreak.

Regina Doherty said that last week the first industry her department had looked at was hospitality, where 140,000 are employed.

But she said a further 54,000 people work in accommodation and 200,000 in retail and these are just the obvious industries that will be affected.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 19, 2020, 07:12:11 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 18, 2020, 07:37:07 PM
The UK have 104 deaths as of today.  If we / they are tracking at the same rate as Italy the number tomorrow should be approx 145.
Will be interesting to see.
144!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyrone08 on March 19, 2020, 07:17:16 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 19, 2020, 07:12:11 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 18, 2020, 07:37:07 PM
The UK have 104 deaths as of today.  If we / they are tracking at the same rate as Italy the number tomorrow should be approx 145.
Will be interesting to see.
144!

That was very accurate. What's your thoughts on the upcoming days
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 19, 2020, 07:24:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 19, 2020, 06:59:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 06:53:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 19, 2020, 06:49:36 PM
191 new cases in the 26 today.
Expected to rise substantially in the coming days as testing increases ( and Cheltenham/Spanish holiday people come down with it).
Only aware of 2 cases myself  - 1 a member of Ming's family (announced by himself) and a buck who went to Cheltenham.

With the county taking better measures that England the numbers don't add up

3300 in uk and much better testing in Ireland

Better testing also means better tracing of recent contacts and better tracking down of other cases to isolate them before they spread it more.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 07:27:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 19, 2020, 06:59:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 06:53:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 19, 2020, 06:49:36 PM
191 new cases in the 26 today.
Expected to rise substantially in the coming days as testing increases ( and Cheltenham/Spanish holiday people come down with it).
Only aware of 2 cases myself  - 1 a member of Ming's family (announced by himself) and a buck who went to Cheltenham.

With the county taking better measures that England the numbers don't add up

3300 in uk and much better testing in Ireland

2689 have it in Britain (68 million) and 557 in Ireland (4.5 million) (according to Hopkins monitoring link) crazy figures and with the doubling of that every 3 to 4 days in twelve weeks time at its peak!

Do they know the recovery rate? 137 dead in Britain 65 recovered 2487 active, can we base on those figures the rate of death or too soon?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on March 19, 2020, 07:32:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 07:27:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 19, 2020, 06:59:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 06:53:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 19, 2020, 06:49:36 PM
191 new cases in the 26 today.
Expected to rise substantially in the coming days as testing increases ( and Cheltenham/Spanish holiday people come down with it).
Only aware of 2 cases myself  - 1 a member of Ming's family (announced by himself) and a buck who went to Cheltenham.

With the county taking better measures that England the numbers don't add up

3300 in uk and much better testing in Ireland

2689 have it in Britain (68 million) and 557 in Ireland (4.5 million) (according to Hopkins monitoring link) crazy figures and with the doubling of that every 3 to 4 days in twelve weeks time at its peak!

Do they know the recovery rate? 137 dead in Britain 65 recovered 2487 active, can we base on those figures the rate of death or too soon?

The UK numbers look like they're testing much less or have a much higher mortality rate compared to ROI. Presumably the former
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 19, 2020, 07:41:21 PM
Are the Brits only testing people who are admitted to Hospital?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 07:44:29 PM
If you are being told to self isolate, how will anyone know they've actually got it unless they show symptoms and see a doctor?

Can you randomly go into a clinic and be tested in the South?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 19, 2020, 07:50:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 07:44:29 PM
Can you randomly go into a clinic and be tested in the South?

Of course not, if some randomer comes in with the virus the clinic would have to close.

You can phone your GP and have him or her make you an appointment at a designated testing centre.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 07:58:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 19, 2020, 07:50:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 07:44:29 PM
Can you randomly go into a clinic and be tested in the South?

Of course not, if some randomer comes in with the virus the clinic would have to close.

You can phone your GP and have him or her make you an appointment at a designated testing centre.

That's the same here and England I'd presume, so are people in England not bothering about being tested?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 19, 2020, 08:14:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 07:58:31 PM
That's the same here and England I'd presume, so are people in England not bothering about being tested?

It isn't. If you phone your GP he'll check if you are seriously ill; if not then that is it he'll say take a panadol every 4 hours,  if you are ill then you go to hospital and then get tested.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 19, 2020, 08:20:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 07:44:29 PM
If you are being told to self isolate, how will anyone know they've actually got it unless they show symptoms and see a doctor?

Can you randomly go into a clinic and be tested in the South?

We are ramping up testing so if a GP refers you then yes u can get a test but may have to wait few days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 08:23:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 19, 2020, 08:14:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 07:58:31 PM
That's the same here and England I'd presume, so are people in England not bothering about being tested?

It isn't. If you phone your GP he'll check if you are seriously ill; if not then that is it he'll say take a panadol every 4 hours,  if you are ill then you go to hospital and then get tested.

So if you're not seriously ill then why get tested? If you've cold symptoms then best to stay in and not expose anyone?

If you're concerned and tell your GP he'll arrange a test .. the guy I know wasn't seriously ill and recovered but had the test, so you're saying they are not testing unless they are seriously ill?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on March 19, 2020, 08:31:59 PM
No, they are now only testing when you are hospitalised or brought to hospital with symptoms. The numbers infected will therefore not be known.
Yet again the UK system is miles behind the Irish system.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 19, 2020, 08:32:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 08:23:02 PM
So if you're not seriously ill then why get tested? If you've cold symptoms then best to stay in and not expose anyone?

The idea (as per WHO advice) is to test everyone with symptoms, so that you know exactly who has the virus and who doesn't and you can trace their contacts and tell them to stay in also. The UK has given up on the latter phase, whereas the ROI is moving people from other public service jobs and people laid off from private jobs into this task.

Quote
so you're saying they are not testing unless they are seriously ill?

That is what I am saying. It is the British way, don't you know.

Quote from: Rois on March 19, 2020, 08:31:59 PM
No, they are now only testing when you are hospitalised or brought to hospital with symptoms. The numbers infected will therefore not be known.
Yet again the UK system is miles behind the Irish system.

Arlene will probably claim that the superior NHS explains the lower numbers shown with the virus in the occupied territories.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 08:46:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 19, 2020, 08:32:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 08:23:02 PM
So if you're not seriously ill then why get tested? If you've cold symptoms then best to stay in and not expose anyone?

The idea (as per WHO advice) is to test everyone with symptoms, so that you know exactly who has the virus and who doesn't and you can trace their contacts and tell them to stay in also. The UK has given up on the latter phase, whereas the ROI is moving people from other public service jobs and people laid off from private jobs into this task.

Quote
so you're saying they are not testing unless they are seriously ill?

That is what I am saying. It is the British way, don't you know.

Quote from: Rois on March 19, 2020, 08:31:59 PM
No, they are now only testing when you are hospitalised or brought to hospital with symptoms. The numbers infected will therefore not be known.
Yet again the UK system is miles behind the Irish system.

Arlene will probably claim that the superior NHS explains the lower numbers shown with the virus in the occupied territories.

So you missed the bit were the guy I know who got it, didn't have any serious illness? But was tested, maybe he just got lucky
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 19, 2020, 08:48:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 08:23:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 19, 2020, 08:14:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 07:58:31 PM
That's the same here and England I'd presume, so are people in England not bothering about being tested?

It isn't. If you phone your GP he'll check if you are seriously ill; if not then that is it he'll say take a panadol every 4 hours,  if you are ill then you go to hospital and then get tested.

So if you're not seriously ill then why get tested? If you've cold symptoms then best to stay in and not expose anyone?

If you're concerned and tell your GP he'll arrange a test .. the guy I know wasn't seriously ill and recovered but had the test, so you're saying they are not testing unless they are seriously ill?

GP won't arrange a test if you ask.
As of yesterday a bad asthmatic is showing all of the synptoms.
He feels like complete shit....in his words like he has been hit by a lorry.

Was told to double the intake of his inhaler and rest.
If he gets seriously ill he needs to call Doc and tell him.

That's it.

His partner is now showing synptoms as is his two kids.

All will simply be isolated the same as him.

It's a shambles in the UK
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 08:51:25 PM
So the schools are closed but the teachers have to present themselves to work on Monday  ;D

She's cracking
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on March 19, 2020, 08:53:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 08:46:03 PM

So you missed the bit were the guy I know who got it, didn't have any serious illness? But was tested, maybe he just got lucky

Was that over a week ago? The testing criteria has changed, probably when the phase changed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 08:57:27 PM
Quote from: Rois on March 19, 2020, 08:53:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 08:46:03 PM

So you missed the bit were the guy I know who got it, didn't have any serious illness? But was tested, maybe he just got lucky

Was that over a week ago? The testing criteria has changed, probably when the phase changed.

He was tested at the start in fairness, I didn't realise there was a change in testing

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on March 19, 2020, 09:23:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 08:51:25 PM
So the schools are closed but the teachers have to present themselves to work on Monday  ;D

She's cracking

Babysitting
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on March 19, 2020, 09:27:10 PM
Door Knobs/ Handles and petrol pump handles are bound to be hot spots for the virus. Have yet to see anybody wiping these down with anti virus mix.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 09:27:26 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 19, 2020, 09:23:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 08:51:25 PM
So the schools are closed but the teachers have to present themselves to work on Monday  ;D

She's cracking

Babysitting

With no exams or prep for lesson plans I'm wondering what they'll be doing, be no kids in from her school
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on March 19, 2020, 09:27:36 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 19, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Bring your ma's last 3 payslips so we can check where she works.

It would be easier naming the jobs that weren't on that list of front line jobs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on March 19, 2020, 09:39:16 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 19, 2020, 07:17:16 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 19, 2020, 07:12:11 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 18, 2020, 07:37:07 PM
The UK have 104 deaths as of today.  If we / they are tracking at the same rate as Italy the number tomorrow should be approx 145.
Will be interesting to see.
144!

That was very accurate. What's your thoughts on the upcoming days

It'll be approx 190 - 195
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 19, 2020, 09:42:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 09:27:26 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 19, 2020, 09:23:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 08:51:25 PM
So the schools are closed but the teachers have to present themselves to work on Monday  ;D

She's cracking

Babysitting

With no exams or prep for lesson plans I'm wondering what they'll be doing, be no kids in from her school

Give  her a phone and get her contact tracing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 09:50:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 19, 2020, 09:42:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 09:27:26 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 19, 2020, 09:23:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 08:51:25 PM
So the schools are closed but the teachers have to present themselves to work on Monday  ;D

She's cracking

Babysitting

With no exams or prep for lesson plans I'm wondering what they'll be doing, be no kids in from her school

Give  her a phone and get her contact tracing.

Sound advice, and better than your usual grim posts
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on March 19, 2020, 09:50:32 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 19, 2020, 09:39:16 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 19, 2020, 07:17:16 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 19, 2020, 07:12:11 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 18, 2020, 07:37:07 PM
The UK have 104 deaths as of today.  If we / they are tracking at the same rate as Italy the number tomorrow should be approx 145.
Will be interesting to see.
144!

That was very accurate. What's your thoughts on the upcoming days

It'll be approx 190 - 195

Yep, as per this:

https://twitter.com/tancredipalmeri/status/1240331177686433793?s=19

Exactly two weeks behind Italy. And they're actually doing something about it. The UK will end up hardest hit out of anywhere in Europe by the time this is done, even with the advanced warning they were given. Diabolical mistakes have been made, and still being made. The fallout will be colossal - it will change the country forever.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: knockitdown on March 19, 2020, 10:14:16 PM
https://twitter.com/tancredipalmeri/status/1240694413761712128?s=21

Average age of the deceased is 80 in Italy, is that correct?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 19, 2020, 10:27:44 PM
UK mortality rate currently tracking harder than Italy. Only Spain is worse off.

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1240723388336877569?s=09 (https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1240723388336877569?s=09)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: MayoBuck on March 19, 2020, 10:35:09 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 19, 2020, 09:50:32 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 19, 2020, 09:39:16 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 19, 2020, 07:17:16 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 19, 2020, 07:12:11 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 18, 2020, 07:37:07 PM
The UK have 104 deaths as of today.  If we / they are tracking at the same rate as Italy the number tomorrow should be approx 145.
Will be interesting to see.
144!

That was very accurate. What's your thoughts on the upcoming days

It'll be approx 190 - 195

Yep, as per this:

https://twitter.com/tancredipalmeri/status/1240331177686433793?s=19

Exactly two weeks behind Italy. And they're actually doing something about it. The UK will end up hardest hit out of anywhere in Europe by the time this is done, even with the advanced warning they were given. Diabolical mistakes have been made, and still being made. The fallout will be colossal - it will change the country forever.

All schools in Italy are closed over 2 weeks at this stage. The ones in northern Italy are closed since 21st February. Yet the UK schools remain open still.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 10:38:28 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on March 19, 2020, 10:35:09 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 19, 2020, 09:50:32 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 19, 2020, 09:39:16 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 19, 2020, 07:17:16 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 19, 2020, 07:12:11 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 18, 2020, 07:37:07 PM
The UK have 104 deaths as of today.  If we / they are tracking at the same rate as Italy the number tomorrow should be approx 145.
Will be interesting to see.
144!

That was very accurate. What's your thoughts on the upcoming days

It'll be approx 190 - 195

Yep, as per this:

https://twitter.com/tancredipalmeri/status/1240331177686433793?s=19

Exactly two weeks behind Italy. And they're actually doing something about it. The UK will end up hardest hit out of anywhere in Europe by the time this is done, even with the advanced warning they were given. Diabolical mistakes have been made, and still being made. The fallout will be colossal - it will change the country forever.

All schools in Italy are closed over 2 weeks at this stage. The ones in northern Italy are closed since 21st February. Yet the UK schools remain open still.

I thought they closed yesterday
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: MayoBuck on March 19, 2020, 10:50:36 PM
Are they not closing tomorrow? Could be wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 10:57:53 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on March 19, 2020, 10:50:36 PM
Are they not closing tomorrow? Could be wrong.

My kids are off from yesterday . Some other schools closed earlier using their teaching training day's
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: WT4E on March 19, 2020, 11:20:04 PM
I know a teacher who got an email tonight to say to be in school monday as anyone who is on frontline services will be able to leave their kids in school and there was a list which covered about 50% of all job types. Whats the point?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 19, 2020, 11:27:28 PM
Some saying has to be both parents jobs on the list. Still confusion even at this stage.

Will cut numbers surely, will be like a childcare service for necessary personnel but still far off complete shutdown

Far from ideal but then what is
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 19, 2020, 11:28:59 PM
Quote from: WT4E on March 19, 2020, 11:20:04 PM
I know a teacher who got an email tonight to say to be in school monday as anyone who is on frontline services will be able to leave their kids in school and there was a list which covered about 50% of all job types. Whats the point?
The vast majority of people won't be sending their kids to school. You would be mad to unless you really needed to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 11:30:41 PM
Quote from: WT4E on March 19, 2020, 11:20:04 PM
I know a teacher who got an email tonight to say to be in school monday as anyone who is on frontline services will be able to leave their kids in school and there was a list which covered about 50% of all job types. Whats the point?

As Jim said, babysitting, primary schools will be effectively still be at work, as parents who don't want too, or can't work from home will drop their kids off, as leaving them with grandparents isn't an option.

Secondary schools might be different as the kids in most cases can possibly look after themselves during this time. My biggest fear will be kids that actually go to school to be safe rather than staying home in an abusive home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 19, 2020, 11:32:09 PM
Quote from: WT4E on March 19, 2020, 11:20:04 PM
I know a teacher who got an email tonight to say to be in school monday as anyone who is on frontline services will be able to leave their kids in school and there was a list which covered about 50% of all job types. Whats the point?

Disaster this is going to cause lots of problems!!

A bit of clarification has appeared from the Headteachers Union which is going to cause carnage. Essentially no school is mandated to provide this service they are being asked to help as part of the national response... essentially this is a care service to be offered and not education and they've been advised that no more than 20% of children should be accommodated.

Along with that schools have been advised to offer places to certain families but then the list of key workers is so broad it opens up a complete can of worms!!

Along with that you're going to struggle getting teachers to come into provide this service... there will be lots of shit going on with this over the next week!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 19, 2020, 11:32:34 PM
https://twitter.com/rte_primetime/status/1240767106955821059?s=21
Anybody in any doubt at this stage of the gravity of what we are facing just watch this. It is unbelievable what the UK are at. Ireland who have been very proactive still should go for a full lock down as quickly as possible. Same goes for the UK who are in a worse position and about a week behind the actions of Ireland. Its going to be a grim few weeks until we notice the benefits of the mass self isolation.

https://twitter.com/rte_primetime/status/1240767106955821059?s=21
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 19, 2020, 11:54:37 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 19, 2020, 10:27:44 PM
UK mortality rate currently tracking harder than Italy. Only Spain is worse off.

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1240723388336877569?s=09 (https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1240723388336877569?s=09)

I don't like the shape of that US curve. It's bending in the wrong direction.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 20, 2020, 12:17:43 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.

Don't be silly. If the UK is going to have a holocaust then Northern Ireland has to have one too in order to prove how British it is.

At least that seems to be the attitude of unionism at the minute.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 20, 2020, 12:44:43 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.

If you saw the TV this evening, they will wait until next weekend and see what the trend is, 15 days after the extra measures were introduced. If needed then you could have a serious lockdown, or if the line has flattened they'll just tweak the arrangements.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on March 20, 2020, 12:47:39 AM
The older generation made Boris's glorious Brexit a reality.  Now potentially hundreds of thousands of them won't be around to see it ... thanks to Boris and his government's ineptitude in the face of COVID-19. Shocking lack of control in the face of a devastatingly defining moment for the UK.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 20, 2020, 03:39:34 AM
If this doesn't guarantee the end of the UK I don't know what will.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 20, 2020, 07:13:00 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2020, 12:44:43 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.

If you saw the TV this evening, they will wait until next weekend and see what the trend is, 15 days after the extra measures were introduced. If needed then you could have a serious lockdown, or if the line has flattened they'll just tweak the arrangements.

I think a lockdown for the 26 will be announced this weekend.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: naka on March 20, 2020, 07:51:15 AM
I get the calls for lockdown which  are sensible and proportionate in the circumstances
But when we come out of this it will be economic Armageddon unless governments step in with more than loans .
My business  which I built over 27 years will struggle unless people take unpaid leave etc with 4/6weeks lockdown( 52 well paying jobs) will go because we still have to pay vat/ paye etc
Carnage is coming .
Really strange times.
As a project in a few years it will be interesting for social historians to view the spike in suicides in the aftermath as against the virus deaths.( economic failure has a correlation with mental health and suicide)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 20, 2020, 08:18:56 AM
Quote from: naka on March 20, 2020, 07:51:15 AM
I get the calls for lockdown which  are sensible and proportionate in the circumstances
But when we come out of this it will be economic Armageddon unless governments step in with more than loans .
My business  which I built over 27 years will struggle unless people take unpaid leave etc with 4/6weeks lockdown( 52 well paying jobs) will go because we still have to pay vat/ paye etc
Carnage is coming .
Really strange times.
As a project in a few years it will be interesting for social historians to view the spike in cup idea in the aftermath as against the virus deaths.

?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 20, 2020, 08:24:37 AM
Work colleague just showed me videos of looting in London , genuinely wish they would actually spray these type of people with live rounds .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on March 20, 2020, 08:25:28 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2020, 12:44:43 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.

If you saw the TV this evening, they will wait until next weekend and see what the trend is, 15 days after the extra measures were introduced. If needed then you could have a serious lockdown, or if the line has flattened they'll just tweak the arrangements.

I think there should be increased restrictions now and see how the numbers look in a week. If the curve has started to flatten sufficiently, remove the increased restrictions; if not then at least you're a week ahead with implementing the increased restrictions
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2020, 08:41:15 AM
Pakistan is 'too poor' to impose lockdown, according to their PM
Pakistan's prime minister, the former cricketer Imran Khan, has urged the nation not to panic, but said it is too poor to impose a Europe-style lockdown.
Around a quarter of the population live in poverty and few have sick pay, while the country is already struggling through an acute economic crisis.
"The nation must not panic. Your government is closely monitoring the [coronavirus] situation", Mr Khan told the country.
He went on: "They [US, Italy, and England] have reacted differently to the virus. But our conditions are different. We cannot afford the same response as European countries," he said.
"Our economic situation is very fragile. We cannot lock down the country like these countries," he went on to say, adding: "If we lock down our cities, what will happen to the poor? Here, the people will die of hunger."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2020, 08:52:24 AM
Quote from: knockitdown on March 19, 2020, 10:14:16 PM
https://twitter.com/tancredipalmeri/status/1240694413761712128?s=21

Average age of the deceased is 80 in Italy, is that correct?
It would be.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 09:01:43 AM
Quote from: naka on March 20, 2020, 07:51:15 AM
I get the calls for lockdown which  are sensible and proportionate in the circumstances
But when we come out of this it will be economic Armageddon unless governments step in with more than loans .
My business  which I built over 27 years will struggle unless people take unpaid leave etc with 4/6weeks lockdown( 52 well paying jobs) will go because we still have to pay vat/ paye etc
Carnage is coming .
Really strange times.
As a project in a few years it will be interesting for social historians to view the spike in suicides in the aftermath as against the virus deaths.( economic failure has a correlation with mental health and suicide)

Yeah I can see what you're saying, the government were saying it will take 4 years to recover from the economic crash with 1,000's of businesses (and whatever staff) going to the wall and unable to start up again.

If this doesn't re focus the minds and change behaviour or practices then we are doomed, if countries like China, who have poor veterinary checks at these markets don't get in line with safe practices, then these virus's will continue to make the jump from animals to humans, and spare me the starving kids in china don't care, the carnage that will happen in all the other countries will lead to a lot more starvation cases around the world
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 20, 2020, 09:04:51 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 20, 2020, 08:25:28 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2020, 12:44:43 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.

If you saw the TV this evening, they will wait until next weekend and see what the trend is, 15 days after the extra measures were introduced. If needed then you could have a serious lockdown, or if the line has flattened they'll just tweak the arrangements.

I think there should be increased restrictions now and see how the numbers look in a week. If the curve has started to flatten sufficiently, remove the increased restrictions; if not then at least you're a week ahead with implementing the increased restrictions
You wouldn't see the benefit of the restrictions for at least 2 weeks in terms of number of cases, and you won't see the benefit until around 3 weeks in terms of  number of deaths. We are at the point of full lockdown now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2020, 09:07:16 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 19, 2020, 11:32:34 PM
https://twitter.com/rte_primetime/status/1240767106955821059?s=21
Anybody in any doubt at this stage of the gravity of what we are facing just watch this. It is unbelievable what the UK are at. Ireland who have been very proactive still should go for a full lock down as quickly as possible. Same goes for the UK who are in a worse position and about a week behind the actions of Ireland. Its going to be a grim few weeks until we notice the benefits of the mass self isolation.

https://twitter.com/rte_primetime/status/1240767106955821059?s=21
What is shocking about the virus is how it overwhelms hospitals. Eg The UK estimates it has one eighth of the ICU capacity required.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on March 20, 2020, 09:07:58 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 20, 2020, 08:24:37 AM
Work colleague just showed me videos of looting in London , genuinely wish they would actually spray these type of people with live rounds .

I think that video is from the London riots a few years ago, it would be all over social media if it happened yesterday. Saw the same video yesterday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 20, 2020, 09:12:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.

The vast majority of people are now aware of what we need to do. Should we not as a collective be a bit more sensible with the rhetoric we use though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2020, 09:21:08 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.
Don't panic!

No government can tell people to stay inside and leave them without money.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/19/chancellor-unveil-wage-bailout-help-millions-coronavirus-cris/
The government will offer unprecedented support for millions of workers to help Britons hit by the coronavirus crisis under radical plans to be unveiled by the Chancellor on Friday.

Two measures under discussion include subsidising wages by freezing income tax payments during the crisis and giving National Insurance tax breaks.

Rishi Sunak, putting the finishing touches to the package, has also been in discussions about paying workers a weekly subsidy in what would be the biggest intervention by the British state in the economy since the Second World War.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on March 20, 2020, 09:39:01 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 19, 2020, 03:49:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 19, 2020, 03:34:50 PM
You could put up with all the stuff but not having a proper funeral is a terrible situation.
Do you think funerals are done right here? I think they should be restricted to family and very close friends. At least the nonsense of sitting around for hours shaking hands with loads of people you don't know or rarely talk too and worse of all politicians showing up saying they are sorry for your loss is cut out now.

Fair enough if that's what you want. Are you going to tell everyone else what to do? Wouldn't be fussed on the politicians coming.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 20, 2020, 09:12:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.

The vast majority of people are now aware of what we need to do. Should we not as a collective be a bit more sensible with the rhetoric we use though.

I'm in my place of work in Belfast watching people go about their day, things not overly busy for a Friday but no fear or worried conversations, I'm in a very controlled environment using best  practices based on information from our head office in Dublin, no one is really going to change unless the government steps in and forcefully orders it! People are still passing it on. I haven't asked anyone to be  shot, yet
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2020, 10:07:21 AM
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The first analysis of Ireland's Covid-19 cases provides an interesting, somewhat encouraging, but ultimately incomplete picture of how we are faring in the fight against the disease.

These are early days to be crunching the numbers on cases, just three weeks after the first one occurred, it has to be stressed.

Yet the breakdown of cases by area, age and to some extent severity, provided by the National Public Health Emergency Team on Wednesday evening, offers some straws in the wind.

The number of cases recorded each day have been creeping up and, we have been warned, is set to surge over the coming weeks; 1,300 by the weekend and 15,000 by the end of the month, it has been predicted.

It will be tempting to rate our performance against these forecasts, but there is little point in doing this. This is because the more tests we carry out – and more testing is a good thing – the more Covid-19 we will find.

The UK, for example, lags behind Ireland and other European countries in the number of cases it has recorded simply because it is testing less; generally, patients are tested there only if they end up being hospitalised.

The analysis by the emergency team of the first 271 cases in the Republic show that almost one-third of people were hospitalised. Again, this tells us little, because in the early stages everyone who tested positive was being hospitalised, even if their symptoms were mild. We can expect this hospitalisation rate to roughly halve over time if the experiences of other countries is replicated.

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https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/paul-cullen-crunching-ireland-s-coronavirus-numbers-brings-good-and-bad-news-1.4207233

It is encouraging that just six patients, or 2 per cent, have required intensive care so far. Translating this figure on to the forecast of 15,000 cases would mean a requirement for 750 intensive care beds by the end of the month.
 
At the start of this year, Ireland had about 250 such beds; we have about double this number by now as a result of measures taken to tackle the pandemic. That still leaves a shortfall, but not one that couldn't be bridged with some more supplies and imaginative thinking – and more staff.

However, things play out differently in the middle of a pandemic-induced surge of cases, relative to our current "calm before the storm" period. Patient outcomes worsen as multiple cases arrive together and staff get infected or have to self-isolate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on March 20, 2020, 10:12:16 AM
A good mate thought he would getting some time off work as he's a teacher but understood he'd have to chip in at School and they'd do a rota and was more than happy to help, unfortunately he's been stitched up by the head and the vast majority of people he works with and is now going to end up working through the Easter holidays. The head came round the other day and read out a list of over 50 health issues of which some were very minor, 75% of all staff said they one or more (head had clearly briefed her friends first) and were told to go home and not come back for 12 weeks. Only a couple of them have kids that need to be home schooled and many of them are taking advantage of a situation, he reckons 3 of them are all over facebook stating there here to help any parents that require advice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 20, 2020, 10:13:22 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 20, 2020, 09:12:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.

The vast majority of people are now aware of what we need to do. Should we not as a collective be a bit more sensible with the rhetoric we use though.

I'm in my place of work in Belfast watching people go about their day, things not overly busy for a Friday but no fear or worried conversations, I'm in a very controlled environment using best  practices based on information from our head office in Dublin, no one is really going to change unless the government steps in and forcefully orders it! People are still passing it on. I haven't asked anyone to be  shot, yet

Your two posts are completely at odds with each other...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 10:16:08 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 20, 2020, 10:13:22 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 20, 2020, 09:12:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.

The vast majority of people are now aware of what we need to do. Should we not as a collective be a bit more sensible with the rhetoric we use though.

I'm in my place of work in Belfast watching people go about their day, things not overly busy for a Friday but no fear or worried conversations, I'm in a very controlled environment using best  practices based on information from our head office in Dublin, no one is really going to change unless the government steps in and forcefully orders it! People are still passing it on. I haven't asked anyone to be  shot, yet

Your two posts are completely at odds with each other...

I'm not meeting anyone at work! It's essential medical services I provide. Best not to bother?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 20, 2020, 10:17:02 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 20, 2020, 09:07:16 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 19, 2020, 11:32:34 PM
https://twitter.com/rte_primetime/status/1240767106955821059?s=21
Anybody in any doubt at this stage of the gravity of what we are facing just watch this. It is unbelievable what the UK are at. Ireland who have been very proactive still should go for a full lock down as quickly as possible. Same goes for the UK who are in a worse position and about a week behind the actions of Ireland. Its going to be a grim few weeks until we notice the benefits of the mass self isolation.

https://twitter.com/rte_primetime/status/1240767106955821059?s=21
What is shocking about the virus is how it overwhelms hospitals. Eg The UK estimates it has one eighth of the ICU capacity required.

1/30th in a "do nothing" scenario.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on March 20, 2020, 10:22:51 AM
Schools are closed but now open to key workers (a list as long as your arm) so we will have most of the school in. Might as well just keep the schools open. Pointless.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 20, 2020, 10:35:51 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 20, 2020, 09:12:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.

The vast majority of people are now aware of what we need to do. Should we not as a collective be a bit more sensible with the rhetoric we use though.

I'm in my place of work in Belfast watching people go about their day, things not overly busy for a Friday but no fear or worried conversations, I'm in a very controlled environment using best  practices based on information from our head office in Dublin, no one is really going to change unless the government steps in and forcefully orders it! People are still passing it on. I haven't asked anyone to be  shot, yet

People need to wise the f**k up and keep apart. Why is there not ads on the TV, these should be all over BBC, UTV, Sky etc like there is on RTE. The message is not getting through and all the time this ticking time bomb is running rampant. This needs a nanny state solution as much as that might not be palatable to a lot of people but until the UK government starts locking the place down and restricting movement this is only going one way. Unfortunately it'll take the first wave of deaths for people to cope on. At that stage a lot of the damage has been done.

Just on another note, other countries are deploying the army into areas to keep order and control. What the hell is going to happen here at that stage? That on it's own is a scary thought.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 20, 2020, 10:36:53 AM
The uk

https://twitter.com/OxfordDiplomat/status/1240776914693951496?s=19
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 10:40:10 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 20, 2020, 10:22:51 AM
Schools are closed but now open to key workers (a list as long as your arm) so we will have most of the school in. Might as well just keep the schools open. Pointless.

Yeah seen the list, it's nuts! Absolutely no point as the amount able to go has no benefits
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 20, 2020, 10:42:52 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 20, 2020, 10:12:16 AM
A good mate thought he would getting some time off work as he's a teacher but understood he'd have to chip in at School and they'd do a rota and was more than happy to help, unfortunately he's been stitched up by the head and the vast majority of people he works with and is now going to end up working through the Easter holidays. The head came round the other day and read out a list of over 50 health issues of which some were very minor, 75% of all staff said they one or more (head had clearly briefed her friends first) and were told to go home and not come back for 12 weeks. Only a couple of them have kids that need to be home schooled and many of them are taking advantage of a situation, he reckons 3 of them are all over facebook stating there here to help any parents that require advice.

I have full sympathy for teachers in this as I have several teachers in immediate family but that is taking the piss. Teachers need to step up and adopt new innovative ideas to remotely teach children. It doesn't mean children should be on a video call with them or in a virtual classroom 9-3 every day. But they should have some way to keep in regular touch with children. I understand that many children may not have access to tablets, computers, phone even the internet or a pencil and paper for that matter which adds further complexity. These are exceptional times and need exceptional measures. In my mind going home and doing absolutely nothing for 12 weeks is not an option.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: naka on March 20, 2020, 10:44:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 20, 2020, 09:12:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.

The vast majority of people are now aware of what we need to do. Should we not as a collective be a bit more sensible with the rhetoric we use though.
milltown
tbf i normally take 70 minutes to get to work in the city
today it took me 44
m1 from sprucefield was 8 minutes to grosvenor so the place is quiet
in my own offices we have 15 in
reality we need cash collection to pay the wages next week.
tonights statement by the chancellor will explain if the collective is ever going to happen

I'm in my place of work in Belfast watching people go about their day, things not overly busy for a Friday but no fear or worried conversations, I'm in a very controlled environment using best  practices based on information from our head office in Dublin, no one is really going to change unless the government steps in and forcefully orders it! People are still passing it on. I haven't asked anyone to be  shot, yet
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 20, 2020, 10:53:32 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 20, 2020, 10:42:52 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 20, 2020, 10:12:16 AM
A good mate thought he would getting some time off work as he's a teacher but understood he'd have to chip in at School and they'd do a rota and was more than happy to help, unfortunately he's been stitched up by the head and the vast majority of people he works with and is now going to end up working through the Easter holidays. The head came round the other day and read out a list of over 50 health issues of which some were very minor, 75% of all staff said they one or more (head had clearly briefed her friends first) and were told to go home and not come back for 12 weeks. Only a couple of them have kids that need to be home schooled and many of them are taking advantage of a situation, he reckons 3 of them are all over facebook stating there here to help any parents that require advice.

I have full sympathy for teachers in this as I have several teachers in immediate family but that is taking the piss. Teachers need to step up and adopt new innovative ideas to remotely teach children. It doesn't mean children should be on a video call with them or in a virtual classroom 9-3 every day. But they should have some way to keep in regular touch with children. I understand that many children may not have access to tablets, computers, phone even the internet or a pencil and paper for that matter which adds further complexity. These are exceptional times and need exceptional measures. In my mind going home and doing absolutely nothing for 12 weeks is not an option.

Don't know were you're getting the 12 weeks at home doing nothing.
To the best of my knowledge with schools in Derry, from out own kids school and friends who are teaching at other schools. Kids have either been given school packs (new ones every 2 weeks) or their lessons are up on Google docs with teachers updating daily.
Some schools are being setup as hubs to facilitate kids who's parents are working on the front line.
Are other areas approaching this differently?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 20, 2020, 10:55:24 AM
Quote from: naka on March 20, 2020, 10:44:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 20, 2020, 09:12:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.

The vast majority of people are now aware of what we need to do. Should we not as a collective be a bit more sensible with the rhetoric we use though.
milltown
tbf i normally take 70 minutes to get to work in the city
today it took me 44
m1 from sprucefield was 8 minutes to grosvenor so the place is quiet
in my own offices we have 15 in
reality we need cash collection to pay the wages next week.
tonights statement by the chancellor will explain if the collective is ever going to happen

I'm in my place of work in Belfast watching people go about their day, things not overly busy for a Friday but no fear or worried conversations, I'm in a very controlled environment using best  practices based on information from our head office in Dublin, no one is really going to change unless the government steps in and forcefully orders it! People are still passing it on. I haven't asked anyone to be  shot, yet

Naka,
   As a business owner what's the feeling in relation to the loans on offer from the UK Government?

I thought it was a bit of a cop out TBH as it's not their money and will need paid back with interest no matter how low that is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 10:55:44 AM
Quote from: naka on March 20, 2020, 10:44:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 20, 2020, 09:12:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.

The vast majority of people are now aware of what we need to do. Should we not as a collective be a bit more sensible with the rhetoric we use though.
milltown
tbf i normally take 70 minutes to get to work in the city
today it took me 44
m1 from sprucefield was 8 minutes to grosvenor so the place is quiet
in my own offices we have 15 in
reality we need cash collection to pay the wages next week.
tonights statement by the chancellor will explain if the collective is ever going to happen

I'm in my place of work in Belfast watching people go about their day, things not overly busy for a Friday but no fear or worried conversations, I'm in a very controlled environment using best  practices based on information from our head office in Dublin, no one is really going to change unless the government steps in and forcefully orders it! People are still passing it on. I haven't asked anyone to be  shot, yet

The problem is the government needs to cover wages otherwise people employers will come to work.

We would still need a skeleton crew to cover the needs of our patients though. So until I'm actually put in a position to self isolate.

Like I said it in my post  it's not overly busy for a Friday, but it's not empty from my window looking out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 20, 2020, 11:06:55 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 20, 2020, 10:53:32 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 20, 2020, 10:42:52 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 20, 2020, 10:12:16 AM
A good mate thought he would getting some time off work as he's a teacher but understood he'd have to chip in at School and they'd do a rota and was more than happy to help, unfortunately he's been stitched up by the head and the vast majority of people he works with and is now going to end up working through the Easter holidays. The head came round the other day and read out a list of over 50 health issues of which some were very minor, 75% of all staff said they one or more (head had clearly briefed her friends first) and were told to go home and not come back for 12 weeks. Only a couple of them have kids that need to be home schooled and many of them are taking advantage of a situation, he reckons 3 of them are all over facebook stating there here to help any parents that require advice.

I have full sympathy for teachers in this as I have several teachers in immediate family but that is taking the piss. Teachers need to step up and adopt new innovative ideas to remotely teach children. It doesn't mean children should be on a video call with them or in a virtual classroom 9-3 every day. But they should have some way to keep in regular touch with children. I understand that many children may not have access to tablets, computers, phone even the internet or a pencil and paper for that matter which adds further complexity. These are exceptional times and need exceptional measures. In my mind going home and doing absolutely nothing for 12 weeks is not an option.

Don't know were you're getting the 12 weeks at home doing nothing.
To the best of my knowledge with schools in Derry, from out own kids school and friends who are teaching at other schools. Kids have either been given school packs (new ones every 2 weeks) or their lessons are up on Google docs with teachers updating daily.
Some schools are being setup as hubs to facilitate kids who's parents are working on the front line.
Are other areas approaching this differently?

That's not the experience our kids have so far. We are lifting packs from the school later today so that may change but I don't know what will be in these. I don't think sending home a pack is enough on its own it needs some form or regular communication with the teacher be that a quick 10/15 min Skype, Whatapp etc call to discuss things. I'm not a teacher. I work in technology and I'm just saying we need to think outside of the box in terms of this and come up with new innovative ideas to see us through this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: WT4E on March 20, 2020, 11:13:49 AM
Small businesses can avail of a £10k Grant however it appears you need to pay business rates which doesn't help the man with a van who is conducting his business from a room in his house. I know of a man who has lost £40k of work and we're only at the beginning of the whole thing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Orior on March 20, 2020, 11:16:55 AM
Quote from: WT4E on March 20, 2020, 11:13:49 AM
Small businesses can avail of a £10k Grant however it appears you need to pay business rates which doesn't help the man with a van who is conducting his business from a room in his house. I know of a man who has lost £40k of work and we're only at the beginning of the whole thing

There is also a £25k grant?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: WT4E on March 20, 2020, 11:18:00 AM
I think the £25k relates to tourism and hospitality
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on March 20, 2020, 11:31:30 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 20, 2020, 11:06:55 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 20, 2020, 10:53:32 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 20, 2020, 10:42:52 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 20, 2020, 10:12:16 AM
A good mate thought he would getting some time off work as he's a teacher but understood he'd have to chip in at School and they'd do a rota and was more than happy to help, unfortunately he's been stitched up by the head and the vast majority of people he works with and is now going to end up working through the Easter holidays. The head came round the other day and read out a list of over 50 health issues of which some were very minor, 75% of all staff said they one or more (head had clearly briefed her friends first) and were told to go home and not come back for 12 weeks. Only a couple of them have kids that need to be home schooled and many of them are taking advantage of a situation, he reckons 3 of them are all over facebook stating there here to help any parents that require advice.

I have full sympathy for teachers in this as I have several teachers in immediate family but that is taking the piss. Teachers need to step up and adopt new innovative ideas to remotely teach children. It doesn't mean children should be on a video call with them or in a virtual classroom 9-3 every day. But they should have some way to keep in regular touch with children. I understand that many children may not have access to tablets, computers, phone even the internet or a pencil and paper for that matter which adds further complexity. These are exceptional times and need exceptional measures. In my mind going home and doing absolutely nothing for 12 weeks is not an option.

Don't know were you're getting the 12 weeks at home doing nothing.
To the best of my knowledge with schools in Derry, from out own kids school and friends who are teaching at other schools. Kids have either been given school packs (new ones every 2 weeks) or their lessons are up on Google docs with teachers updating daily.
Some schools are being setup as hubs to facilitate kids who's parents are working on the front line.
Are other areas approaching this differently?

That's not the experience our kids have so far. We are lifting packs from the school later today so that may change but I don't know what will be in these. I don't think sending home a pack is enough on its own it needs some form or regular communication with the teacher be that a quick 10/15 min Skype, Whatapp etc call to discuss things. I'm not a teacher. I work in technology and I'm just saying we need to think outside of the box in terms of this and come up with new innovative ideas to see us through this.

I think there's going to be some updating from teachers weekly on the schools buddy system my kids use, I'd imagine 50% of the teachers were my kids go to school have kids that need to be looked after. The curriculum has been suspended for those who are going to be brought to school every day so the teachers aren't going to be teaching their going to be acting as a child minder, well thats we've been told this morning.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: naka on March 20, 2020, 11:39:47 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2020, 10:55:24 AM
Quote from: naka on March 20, 2020, 10:44:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 20, 2020, 09:12:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.

The vast majority of people are now aware of what we need to do. Should we not as a collective be a bit more sensible with the rhetoric we use though.
milltown
tbf i normally take 70 minutes to get to work in the city
today it took me 44
m1 from sprucefield was 8 minutes to grosvenor so the place is quiet
in my own offices we have 15 in
reality we need cash collection to pay the wages next week.
tonights statement by the chancellor will explain if the collective is ever going to happen

I'm in my place of work in Belfast watching people go about their day, things not overly busy for a Friday but no fear or worried conversations, I'm in a very controlled environment using best  practices based on information from our head office in Dublin, no one is really going to change unless the government steps in and forcefully orders it! People are still passing it on. I haven't asked anyone to be  shot, yet

Naka,
   As a business owner what's the feeling in relation to the loans on offer from the UK Government?

I thought it was a bit of a cop out TBH as it's not their money and will need paid back with interest no matter how low that is.
johnny
reality is a loan is no good
as it has an interest rate and all i would be doing is kicking the can down the road so effectively working to pay bills for the next couple of years
our work has dropped off a cliff
i like the idea of say 50% contribution through paye which will actually help the guys who do things right and pay their taxes properly .
it costs £250k a month to run my business with wages at circa 160k inclusive of paye/nic
so in lockdown there is no money to pay.
i can cover april but after that  well  its lay offs etc

teh small business relief only covers small firms. most sme don`t qualify
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 20, 2020, 11:50:19 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 20, 2020, 10:35:51 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 20, 2020, 09:12:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.

The vast majority of people are now aware of what we need to do. Should we not as a collective be a bit more sensible with the rhetoric we use though.

I'm in my place of work in Belfast watching people go about their day, things not overly busy for a Friday but no fear or worried conversations, I'm in a very controlled environment using best  practices based on information from our head office in Dublin, no one is really going to change unless the government steps in and forcefully orders it! People are still passing it on. I haven't asked anyone to be  shot, yet

People need to wise the f**k up and keep apart. Why is there not ads on the TV, these should be all over BBC, UTV, Sky etc like there is on RTE. The message is not getting through and all the time this ticking time bomb is running rampant. This needs a nanny state solution as much as that might not be palatable to a lot of people but until the UK government starts locking the place down and restricting movement this is only going one way. Unfortunately it'll take the first wave of deaths for people to cope on. At that stage a lot of the damage has been done.

Just on another note, other countries are deploying the army into areas to keep order and control. What the hell is going to happen here at that stage? That on it's own is a scary thought.

The handling of the whole thing by the UK has been absolutely and totally pathetic. If anything good can come of this maybe it can be that the world finally see the self serving greedy Etonian pricks have no concept of what it's like to live and the real world and under no circumstances should be in any kind of position of power.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 20, 2020, 11:56:13 AM
Quote from: naka on March 20, 2020, 11:39:47 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2020, 10:55:24 AM
Quote from: naka on March 20, 2020, 10:44:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 20, 2020, 09:12:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.

The vast majority of people are now aware of what we need to do. Should we not as a collective be a bit more sensible with the rhetoric we use though.
milltown
tbf i normally take 70 minutes to get to work in the city
today it took me 44
m1 from sprucefield was 8 minutes to grosvenor so the place is quiet
in my own offices we have 15 in
reality we need cash collection to pay the wages next week.
tonights statement by the chancellor will explain if the collective is ever going to happen

I'm in my place of work in Belfast watching people go about their day, things not overly busy for a Friday but no fear or worried conversations, I'm in a very controlled environment using best  practices based on information from our head office in Dublin, no one is really going to change unless the government steps in and forcefully orders it! People are still passing it on. I haven't asked anyone to be  shot, yet

Naka,
   As a business owner what's the feeling in relation to the loans on offer from the UK Government?

I thought it was a bit of a cop out TBH as it's not their money and will need paid back with interest no matter how low that is.
johnny
reality is a loan is no good
as it has an interest rate and all i would be doing is kicking the can down the road so effectively working to pay bills for the next couple of years
our work has dropped off a cliff
i like the idea of say 50% contribution through paye which will actually help the guys who do things right and pay their taxes properly .
it costs £250k a month to run my business with wages at circa 160k inclusive of paye/nic
so in lockdown there is no money to pay.
i can cover april but after that  well  its lay offs etc

teh small business relief only covers small firms. most sme don`t qualify

That's the other side of it as an employer that an employee like me probably doesn't see.

The haste of the decision by O'Neills whilst understandable to an extent is poor short termism IMO. Yes there's a good chance some clubs have pushed orders out but they'll still need the stuff come July/August hopefully.

They'll lose out in the cancellations of Feile ok, but will need to ramp up for the Christmas market.

That's different than losing business that you'll never get back like hotels, pubs, airlines and the supply chain in such industries.

Could O'Neiils not have offered to make hazmat suits?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 20, 2020, 12:10:48 PM
Hazmat suits in your county colours. Would be great for the championship if it ever gets the go ahead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 20, 2020, 12:16:00 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2020, 11:56:13 AM
Quote from: naka on March 20, 2020, 11:39:47 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2020, 10:55:24 AM
Quote from: naka on March 20, 2020, 10:44:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 20, 2020, 09:12:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.

The vast majority of people are now aware of what we need to do. Should we not as a collective be a bit more sensible with the rhetoric we use though.
milltown
tbf i normally take 70 minutes to get to work in the city
today it took me 44
m1 from sprucefield was 8 minutes to grosvenor so the place is quiet
in my own offices we have 15 in
reality we need cash collection to pay the wages next week.
tonights statement by the chancellor will explain if the collective is ever going to happen

I'm in my place of work in Belfast watching people go about their day, things not overly busy for a Friday but no fear or worried conversations, I'm in a very controlled environment using best  practices based on information from our head office in Dublin, no one is really going to change unless the government steps in and forcefully orders it! People are still passing it on. I haven't asked anyone to be  shot, yet

Naka,
   As a business owner what's the feeling in relation to the loans on offer from the UK Government?

I thought it was a bit of a cop out TBH as it's not their money and will need paid back with interest no matter how low that is.
johnny
reality is a loan is no good
as it has an interest rate and all i would be doing is kicking the can down the road so effectively working to pay bills for the next couple of years
our work has dropped off a cliff
i like the idea of say 50% contribution through paye which will actually help the guys who do things right and pay their taxes properly .
it costs £250k a month to run my business with wages at circa 160k inclusive of paye/nic
so in lockdown there is no money to pay.
i can cover april but after that  well  its lay offs etc

teh small business relief only covers small firms. most sme don`t qualify

That's the other side of it as an employer that an employee like me probably doesn't see.

The haste of the decision by O'Neills whilst understandable to an extent is poor short termism IMO. Yes there's a good chance some clubs have pushed orders out but they'll still need the stuff come July/August hopefully.

They'll lose out in the cancellations of Feile ok, but will need to ramp up for the Christmas market.

That's different than losing business that you'll never get back like hotels, pubs, airlines and the supply chain in such industries.

Could O'Neiils not have offered to make hazmat suits?

The O'Neills decision is awful. I thought that company had a community feel. They just fucked them poor people out and said to hell with them.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on March 20, 2020, 12:22:13 PM
What were they suppose to do? They temporarily let off people until May, same way hotels etc are doing
O Neill had thousands of orders cancelled. They can't keep making product with no Gaa
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2020, 12:25:05 PM
Quote from: naka on March 20, 2020, 11:39:47 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2020, 10:55:24 AM
Quote from: naka on March 20, 2020, 10:44:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 20, 2020, 09:12:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.

The vast majority of people are now aware of what we need to do. Should we not as a collective be a bit more sensible with the rhetoric we use though.
milltown
tbf i normally take 70 minutes to get to work in the city
today it took me 44
m1 from sprucefield was 8 minutes to grosvenor so the place is quiet
in my own offices we have 15 in
reality we need cash collection to pay the wages next week.
tonights statement by the chancellor will explain if the collective is ever going to happen

I'm in my place of work in Belfast watching people go about their day, things not overly busy for a Friday but no fear or worried conversations, I'm in a very controlled environment using best  practices based on information from our head office in Dublin, no one is really going to change unless the government steps in and forcefully orders it! People are still passing it on. I haven't asked anyone to be  shot, yet

Naka,
   As a business owner what's the feeling in relation to the loans on offer from the UK Government?

I thought it was a bit of a cop out TBH as it's not their money and will need paid back with interest no matter how low that is.
johnny
reality is a loan is no good
as it has an interest rate and all i would be doing is kicking the can down the road so effectively working to pay bills for the next couple of years
our work has dropped off a cliff
i like the idea of say 50% contribution through paye which will actually help the guys who do things right and pay their taxes properly .
it costs £250k a month to run my business with wages at circa 160k inclusive of paye/nic
so in lockdown there is no money to pay.
i can cover april but after that  well  its lay offs etc

teh small business relief only covers small firms. most sme don`t qualify
governments can't tell people to stay at home and leave businesses hanging.
Sunak is due to reveal support measures today

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/19/chancellor-unveil-wage-bailout-help-millions-coronavirus-cris/
"The government will offer unprecedented support for millions of workers to help Britons hit by the coronavirus crisis under radical plans to be unveiled by the Chancellor on Friday.

Two measures under discussion include subsidising wages by freezing income tax payments during the crisis and giving National Insurance tax breaks.

Rishi Sunak, putting the finishing touches to the package, has also been in discussions about paying workers a weekly subsidy in what would be the biggest intervention by the British state in the economy since the Second World War. "

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 20, 2020, 12:26:26 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on March 20, 2020, 12:22:13 PM
What were they suppose to do? They temporarily let off people until May, same way hotels etc are doing
O Neill had 1000s of orders cancelled. They can't keep making product with no Gaa

We've an order in with them for three sets of adult jerseys. That's still going ahead as we hope to need them in July August.

I'd suggest a lot of clubs would be the same.

They'll lose out a bit on the replica county gear alright but they'll get those back later in the year.

Don't understand who'd be cancelling 1000's of orders for teamwear.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 20, 2020, 12:30:29 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 20, 2020, 10:12:16 AM
A good mate thought he would getting some time off work as he's a teacher but understood he'd have to chip in at School and they'd do a rota and was more than happy to help, unfortunately he's been stitched up by the head and the vast majority of people he works with and is now going to end up working through the Easter holidays. The head came round the other day and read out a list of over 50 health issues of which some were very minor, 75% of all staff said they one or more (head had clearly briefed her friends first) and were told to go home and not come back for 12 weeks. Only a couple of them have kids that need to be home schooled and many of them are taking advantage of a situation, he reckons 3 of them are all over facebook stating there here to help any parents that require advice.

Have heard of a few stories of people swinging the lead. And no surprise that some Teachers are at this.  Very, very disappointing in a national emergency.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 20, 2020, 12:41:52 PM
Know of a teacher had been off for good while had just started chatting about phased return, this news breaks and she says scratch that im back full time. Didnt even try hide it.

Some folk are shameless. Get to see true character of some in times of hardship
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 20, 2020, 12:48:01 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2020, 12:26:26 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on March 20, 2020, 12:22:13 PM
What were they suppose to do? They temporarily let off people until May, same way hotels etc are doing
O Neill had 1000s of orders cancelled. They can't keep making product with no Gaa

We've an order in with them for three sets of adult jerseys. That's still going ahead as we hope to need them in July August.

I'd suggest a lot of clubs would be the same.

They'll lose out a bit on the replica county gear alright but they'll get those back later in the year.

Don't understand who'd be cancelling 1000's of orders for teamwear.
Jonny I'd be amazed if there is any club or county football/hurling this summer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 20, 2020, 12:48:21 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 20, 2020, 10:12:16 AM
A good mate thought he would getting some time off work as he's a teacher but understood he'd have to chip in at School and they'd do a rota and was more than happy to help, unfortunately he's been stitched up by the head and the vast majority of people he works with and is now going to end up working through the Easter holidays. The head came round the other day and read out a list of over 50 health issues of which some were very minor, 75% of all staff said they one or more (head had clearly briefed her friends first) and were told to go home and not come back for 12 weeks. Only a couple of them have kids that need to be home schooled and many of them are taking advantage of a situation, he reckons 3 of them are all over facebook stating there here to help any parents that require advice.

End up having to work through Easter?

My heart really goes out to those poor teachers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:52:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 20, 2020, 12:48:21 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 20, 2020, 10:12:16 AM
A good mate thought he would getting some time off work as he's a teacher but understood he'd have to chip in at School and they'd do a rota and was more than happy to help, unfortunately he's been stitched up by the head and the vast majority of people he works with and is now going to end up working through the Easter holidays. The head came round the other day and read out a list of over 50 health issues of which some were very minor, 75% of all staff said they one or more (head had clearly briefed her friends first) and were told to go home and not come back for 12 weeks. Only a couple of them have kids that need to be home schooled and many of them are taking advantage of a situation, he reckons 3 of them are all over facebook stating there here to help any parents that require advice.

End up having to work through Easter?

My heart really goes out to those poor teachers.

Easter? I'd say last day of school would be end of a June, possibly different up your way
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on March 20, 2020, 12:54:55 PM
From a business point of view I can't stress how serious this is.

I've been badgering Invest NI etc this week that the government need to announce that they will pay a large portion of wages,and this needs to be by way of a grant, not a loan.  Businesses will not take out loans to pay for wages when demand and orders have literally dropped off a cliff.
If this isn't fixed today with a clear message from the Chancellor the amount of layoffs will be huge.  The reality is that cash will stop coming through the door, even from orders delivered in the past, and when that happens everything just stops in business.
We all need to keep our fingers crossed.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on March 20, 2020, 01:00:26 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2020, 12:26:26 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on March 20, 2020, 12:22:13 PM
What were they suppose to do? They temporarily let off people until May, same way hotels etc are doing
O Neill had 1000s of orders cancelled. They can't keep making product with no Gaa

We've an order in with them for three sets of adult jerseys. That's still going ahead as we hope to need them in July August.

I'd suggest a lot of clubs would be the same.

They'll lose out a bit on the replica county gear alright but they'll get those back later in the year.

Don't understand who'd be cancelling 1000's of orders for teamwear.

It's said the peak of the Virus will be around June/July. I don't see any Club nevermind County football being played in the summer, if at all this year
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 20, 2020, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 20, 2020, 12:54:55 PM
From a business point of view I can't stress how serious this is.

I've been badgering Invest NI etc this week that the government need to announce that they will pay a large portion of wages,and this needs to be by way of a grant, not a loan.  Businesses will not take out loans to pay for wages when demand and orders have literally dropped off a cliff.
If this isn't fixed today with a clear message from the Chancellor the amount of layoffs will be huge.  The reality is that cash will stop coming through the door, even from orders delivered in the past, and when that happens everything just stops in business.
We all need to keep our fingers crossed.

Same here. They need to guarantee the wages or the country will fall into the sea.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on March 20, 2020, 01:17:26 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 20, 2020, 10:12:16 AM
A good mate thought he would getting some time off work as he's a teacher but understood he'd have to chip in at School and they'd do a rota and was more than happy to help, unfortunately he's been stitched up by the head and the vast majority of people he works with and is now going to end up working through the Easter holidays. The head came round the other day and read out a list of over 50 health issues of which some were very minor, 75% of all staff said they one or more (head had clearly briefed her friends first) and were told to go home and not come back for 12 weeks. Only a couple of them have kids that need to be home schooled and many of them are taking advantage of a situation, he reckons 3 of them are all over facebook stating there here to help any parents that require advice.
Gonna be a nasty environment when normality returns
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 20, 2020, 01:40:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:52:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 20, 2020, 12:48:21 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 20, 2020, 10:12:16 AM
A good mate thought he would getting some time off work as he's a teacher but understood he'd have to chip in at School and they'd do a rota and was more than happy to help, unfortunately he's been stitched up by the head and the vast majority of people he works with and is now going to end up working through the Easter holidays. The head came round the other day and read out a list of over 50 health issues of which some were very minor, 75% of all staff said they one or more (head had clearly briefed her friends first) and were told to go home and not come back for 12 weeks. Only a couple of them have kids that need to be home schooled and many of them are taking advantage of a situation, he reckons 3 of them are all over facebook stating there here to help any parents that require advice.

End up having to work through Easter?

My heart really goes out to those poor teachers.

Easter? I'd say last day of school would be end of a June, possibly different up your way

Why is a teacher hard done by if he has to work through Easter, most people have to.

I think it just typifies the bubble teachers live in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on March 20, 2020, 01:45:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 20, 2020, 01:40:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:52:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 20, 2020, 12:48:21 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 20, 2020, 10:12:16 AM
A good mate thought he would getting some time off work as he's a teacher but understood he'd have to chip in at School and they'd do a rota and was more than happy to help, unfortunately he's been stitched up by the head and the vast majority of people he works with and is now going to end up working through the Easter holidays. The head came round the other day and read out a list of over 50 health issues of which some were very minor, 75% of all staff said they one or more (head had clearly briefed her friends first) and were told to go home and not come back for 12 weeks. Only a couple of them have kids that need to be home schooled and many of them are taking advantage of a situation, he reckons 3 of them are all over facebook stating there here to help any parents that require advice.

End up having to work through Easter?

My heart really goes out to those poor teachers.

Easter? I'd say last day of school would be end of a June, possibly different up your way

Why is a teacher hard done by if he has to work through Easter, most people have to.

I think it just typifies the bubble teachers live in.

The lad in question works every Saturday to supplement his income and would have used one of the 2 weeks off during Easter to work too, that business still want him in. He like many of us on here gives up a lot of his spare time to help run his club, I agree many are in a bubble but he isn't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 01:49:45 PM
So having 90 teachers in school looking after possibly 50% of the kids due to their parents jobs is a good idea?

Either the school is closed or it's not! Will the kids self isolate?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on March 20, 2020, 01:59:10 PM
Either keep them open or close them completely. What's the point in having half the class at home and the other half in school for babysitting. I don't even mind coming into school and doing my teaching with google classroom and Class Dojo but I don't want a room full of children mixing together.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on March 20, 2020, 02:24:48 PM
And where should the kids of front line staff go?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2020, 02:29:20 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/348e05e4-6778-11ea-800d-da70cff6e4d3

The virus is an economic emergency too As borrowers and spenders of last resort, governments must act now to avert a depression MARTIN WOLF

Central banks cannot deliver solvency. They cannot underpin household incomes or insure businesses against this collapse in demand. As borrowers and spenders of last resort, governments can and must do so.  Long-term government debt is so cheap that they need feel no fear of doing so, either: Germany, Japan, France and the UK are now able to borrow for 30 years at a nominal rate of less than 1 per cent, Canada at 1.3 per cent and the US at 1.4 per cent. This, then, is a time-limited crisis, with economic and health consequences that governments must manage. Domestically, the bare minimum is generous sick pay and unemployment insurance, including to freelance workers, for the period of the crisis. If this is too difficult, governments can just send everybody a cheque. Yet even this will not be enough if the costs of mass bankruptcy and a depression are to be avoided. Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman of Berkeley argue that: "The most direct way to provide . . . insurance is to have the government act as a buyer of last resort. If the government fully replaces the demand that evaporates, each business can keep paying its workers and maintain its capital stock, as if it was operating . . . as usual." Anatole Kaletsky of Gavekal has recommended a similar response. Providing such relief will not create moral hazard. Being helped through a once-in-a-century pandemic will hardly encourage egregious irresponsibility. If businesses have borrowed too much, they will still go bankrupt, in the end. This plan is far better than loans and loan guarantees, as proposed by the German government. Businesses will take up loans only to ensure their survival through the crisis, not necessarily to pay their workers. Moreover, loans will have to be repaid, creating a burden when the pandemic ends. In this proposed programme, however, payments can be made conditional on keeping workers. The programme will also end naturally, with the pandemic itself. Governments can then impose additional taxes to recoup their outlays. Maintaining incomes and minimising the long-term costs of collapsing businesses are essential. In addition, within the eurozone it will be essential to help governments whose ability to borrow is limited. Globally, vulnerable emerging countries will also need help managing the health and economic crises. It will be vital, too, to roll back the zero-sum nationalism of today's policies, which will make it difficult to rebuild a co-operative and healthy global order. This too shall pass. But it will not do so tomorrow. The pandemic risks creating a depression. Salus rei publicae suprema lex (the safety of the republic is the supreme law). In war, governments spend freely. Now, too, they must mobilise their resources to prevent a disaster. Think big. Act now. Together.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: maggie on March 20, 2020, 02:42:09 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on March 20, 2020, 02:24:48 PM
And where should the kids of front line staff go?

Where do they go down south?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on March 20, 2020, 02:45:19 PM
Two things that the Chancellor's announcement needs to include today for it to have any chance of stopping a complete economic meltdown:
1 - It's a wage support grant of at least 75%, not a loan
2 - All companies, not just SMEs or those in retail or hospitality, need to be able to benefit
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 20, 2020, 03:10:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 20, 2020, 01:40:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:52:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 20, 2020, 12:48:21 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on March 20, 2020, 10:12:16 AM
A good mate thought he would getting some time off work as he's a teacher but understood he'd have to chip in at School and they'd do a rota and was more than happy to help, unfortunately he's been stitched up by the head and the vast majority of people he works with and is now going to end up working through the Easter holidays. The head came round the other day and read out a list of over 50 health issues of which some were very minor, 75% of all staff said they one or more (head had clearly briefed her friends first) and were told to go home and not come back for 12 weeks. Only a couple of them have kids that need to be home schooled and many of them are taking advantage of a situation, he reckons 3 of them are all over facebook stating there here to help any parents that require advice.

End up having to work through Easter?

My heart really goes out to those poor teachers.

Easter? I'd say last day of school would be end of a June, possibly different up your way

Why is a teacher hard done by if he has to work through Easter, most people have to.

I think it just typifies the bubble teachers live in.

Conversely, I'd say parents are getting their fill of it in the house these days with a couple of kids and how to manage them etc.  I don't know how they do it with 30 in a class!!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on March 20, 2020, 03:17:24 PM
Quote from: maggie on March 20, 2020, 02:42:09 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on March 20, 2020, 02:24:48 PM
And where should the kids of front line staff go?

Where do they go down south?

So don't close the schools then. As it stands we will have about 60% of the school in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 20, 2020, 03:20:36 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 20, 2020, 03:17:24 PM
Quote from: maggie on March 20, 2020, 02:42:09 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on March 20, 2020, 02:24:48 PM
And where should the kids of front line staff go?

Where do they go down south?

So don't close the schools then. As it stands we will have about 60% of the school in.

How come 60%?

Doctors, nurses, lorry drivers - who else are allowed to the school?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 20, 2020, 03:21:41 PM
Shop workers I would assume too which would be a decent amount of people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 20, 2020, 03:26:59 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 20, 2020, 03:21:41 PM
Shop workers I would assume too which would be a decent amount of people.

Wouldn't be every shop worker. But where to you stop with the definition of that?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 20, 2020, 03:27:27 PM
Well grocery maybe? Has to be some kind of shop worker in it though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on March 20, 2020, 03:33:42 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 20, 2020, 03:17:24 PM
Quote from: maggie on March 20, 2020, 02:42:09 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on March 20, 2020, 02:24:48 PM
And where should the kids of front line staff go?

Where do they go down south?

So don't close the schools then. As it stands we will have about 60% of the school in.

But is 40% at home not better than 0% at home? Is it not all relative? Btw, I am not saying the action is correct but surely any limiting of contact is better than none?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on March 20, 2020, 03:34:12 PM
Schools are fully closed here and people are finding a way to work around it, not saying its easy but can't understand how ye can't do the same up North.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on March 20, 2020, 03:42:31 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on March 20, 2020, 03:33:42 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 20, 2020, 03:17:24 PM
Quote from: maggie on March 20, 2020, 02:42:09 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on March 20, 2020, 02:24:48 PM
And where should the kids of front line staff go?

Where do they go down south?

So don't close the schools then. As it stands we will have about 60% of the school in.

But is 40% at home not better than 0% at home? Is it not all relative? Btw, I am not saying the action is correct but surely any limiting of contact is better than none?

Yeah. Even if half the kids are still coming in, the effect of the other half being away cuts transmission rates by 50%.

Problem is keeping kids who are off school properly distanced. Drive around Belfast, or probably any town in the north, today and you'll see large groups of teens out enjoying the sunshine together. And parents dragging hordes of primary school age kids around the shops. People, young and not so young, are treating this like their summer holidays.

The message is not getting through. Not even close. We need a shutdown and cops on the street sending people home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 20, 2020, 03:47:57 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 20, 2020, 03:27:27 PM
Well grocery maybe? Has to be some kind of shop worker in it though.

Will be interesting to see how many kids availl of this here. . . there are 3 primary schools in the parish (4 counting the Irish school but it's v small) and although there was suggestion of using one as a "hub" I don't see how that makes sense in terms of social distancing!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 20, 2020, 04:02:26 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 20, 2020, 03:42:31 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on March 20, 2020, 03:33:42 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 20, 2020, 03:17:24 PM
Quote from: maggie on March 20, 2020, 02:42:09 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on March 20, 2020, 02:24:48 PM
And where should the kids of front line staff go?

Where do they go down south?

So don't close the schools then. As it stands we will have about 60% of the school in.

But is 40% at home not better than 0% at home? Is it not all relative? Btw, I am not saying the action is correct but surely any limiting of contact is better than none?

Yeah. Even if half the kids are still coming in, the effect of the other half being away cuts transmission rates by 50%.

Problem is keeping kids who are off school properly distanced. Drive around Belfast, or probably any town in the north, today and you'll see large groups of teens out enjoying the sunshine together. And parents dragging hordes of primary school age kids around the shops. People, young and not so young, are treating this like their summer holidays.

The message is not getting through. Not even close. We need a shutdown and cops on the street sending people home.

Banning kids from shops would be a start and some shops in the south have talked about that.
I wouldn't ban them from local shops if someone has to get milk, but certainly from any "shopping expedition" type places.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 20, 2020, 04:15:05 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 19, 2020, 09:39:16 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 19, 2020, 07:17:16 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 19, 2020, 07:12:11 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 18, 2020, 07:37:07 PM
The UK have 104 deaths as of today.  If we / they are tracking at the same rate as Italy the number tomorrow should be approx 145.
Will be interesting to see.
144!

That was very accurate. What's your thoughts on the upcoming days

It'll be approx 190 - 195
184 at the minute. Likely to be close to 195 by end of day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 20, 2020, 04:20:15 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 20, 2020, 04:15:05 PM
]184 at the minute. Likely to be close to 195 by end of day.

You see the impact  of the testing policies on the numbers. The UK has only something like 8 times the number of cases in the ROI, but has  50 times the number of deaths.
Likewise Germany and Spain  have something the same number of cases, but SPain has  20 times the number  of deaths. This does not reflect bad treatmentt so much as  it likely reflects Germany testing lots of people while Spain only counts those reaching hospital, as the UK does. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 20, 2020, 04:37:24 PM
This place is fecking useless LL. I know we can joke but all joking aside absolutely useless. No direction on anything.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2020, 04:42:16 PM
Apologies for the length but it's important for NI

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/20/boris-must-become-socialist-face-nationalising-entire-economy/

Boris must embrace socialism immediately to save the liberal free market
•   AMBROSE EVANS-PRITCHARD
F
There's nothing stopping Boris pulling out all the stops to hold the economy together
The British state can afford to spend whatever it takes to cover lost wages, keep companies afloat, and hold the economy together through the Covid-19 crisis. There is no debt constraint.
To deny funding on the basis of primitive accounting shibboleths is to repeat the errors of post-Lehman austerity strategy but on a greater scale, and with more calamitous effects.
In that episode, public investment was cut to the bone – even though we could borrow at negative real rates – and this pulled down the future economic growth rate. It was based on the false theory of "expansionary fiscal contractions", debunked by the International Monetary Fund, and the nearest thing to witchcraft in modern economic debate.
The result was a higher public debt ratio and smaller GDP than would otherwise have been the case. It achieved nothing of value. It was self-defeating even on its own crude terms. 


The stakes are higher this time because the Covid-19 "sudden stop" threatens to push thousands of valuable and viable companies over the edge and destroy swaths of the free market system, eating into the supply-side foundations of our economy.
We could emerge dazed and blinking from the coming siege – months hence – to discover that we cannot just let the natural process clear "dead wood" (how I hate that term) and then enjoy a V-shaped recovery. Hysteresis would have set it.
Other countries that preserved their industrial and economic base with more provident policies would instead be the ones roaring back to life. While we languished in depression, they would snatch our export markets and eat our lunch.
"This is not just a 'supply shock' that goes away in the third quarter," says Robert Woods from Bank of America. Firms are going smack into a brick wall. Income has stopped overnight. They cannot 'hoard labour'' and muddle through. 
To take the route of passive liquidation – on the basis of Schumpeterian gobbledygook or sovereign debt phobia as some Tory hardliners seem to prefer – is self-evidently untenable. The Government would end up having to nationalise the economy. We would end up sliding into socialism, one disaster after another, week after week, until we reach Corbynism by default and by defaults.


So if we want to avert socialism, we must briefly become socialists. We must spend whatever it takes to save  free market liberalism. It is a war to defeat a virus. It is also a war to save our economic way of life. You cannot pick a trade-off. That is a false choice.
The Government has already committed one grave error by giving up too early on the successful Korea/Taiwan/Singapore strategy on Covid-19 – "test, trace, isolate" – as it dallied with far-fetched theories and told us that it could "time" the trajectory of the epidemic with calibrated responses.
Yet it could not even get the timing remotely right. It built a strategy on claims that we were four weeks behind Italy when anybody following the events in Lombardy could see the lag was only 13 days (exactly as professor Anthony Costello kept warning). It is now beyond doubt that we have let an Italian pattern take hold. Still we dither.
The Government seemed to imagine that it could let British residents die at a much faster rate than in other comparable democracies in the first wave without provoking a ferocious popular and political reaction, and without untold damage to our international reputation. It seemed to think that testing the NHS to destruction was "doable". We'll find some ventilators somewhere.


The strategy reminds me of the Norway campaign in early 1940. It exposed staggering ineptitude. What finished off the Chamberlain government and brought about the national coalition that saved this country was the parade of Tory MPs in full military uniform – the voice of the front line – speaking in the Commons to vent their fury. Doctors this time?
Downing Street must not now make an error of comparable gravity on the economic front by listening to bad counsel. It makes little substantive difference whether the public debt ratio stays at 85pc of GDP or jumps temporarily to 100pc  or even 110pc so long as the money is spent preserving the productive system. Ratios of this kind – in these particular circumstances – are smoke and mirrors.
Bernard Connolly, the high priest of British Wicksellian economists, argues that if the Government provides these subsidies and keeps the nation whole it will lead to a big rise in pent up demand (since nobody is spending much now beyond survival).
This in turn would cause GDP to accelerate in a super V-shaped recovery once it comes. The Treasury could then run a tighter fiscal policy for a while – it would have to do so to avoid overheating – and that would gradually bend the debt trajectory back down. What matters is the trend over time. The snapshot debt ratio is irrelevant.


This week's talk of a Gilts strike, or fight from UK debt, lasted 48 hours and was nothing more than market noise. As soon as the Bank of England stepped in with £200bn of fresh QE – enough to cover a budget deficit of a tenth of GDP for a year – borrowing costs plunged, 10-year bonds yields halved, and sterling surged (to the consternation of the debt alarmists).
What that tells you is that investors will reward rather than punish a proactive regime. It is also clear that joined-up monetary and fiscal policy – call it helicopter money, call it whatever you want – is the new orthodoxy as we go into a global recession without normal central bank buffers. We will all have to print our way out of this.


Old rules do not apply in a world of excess capital, zero rates and chronic deflation. In any case, the UK borrows in its own currency and has sovereign policy instruments. There is no credit risk. Nor do we face a rollover crunch on Gilts over any meaningful time-horizon. The existing stock of debt is on the longest maturity of any major country at more than 14 years.
Those warning that we cannot afford more debt even in an emergency – and therefore implicitly that we should stick to economic business as usual and let the pandemic run wild – are more or less the same people who argued after the Lehman crisis that debt ratios were about to spiral out of control and that QE would lead to hyperinflation. They did not understand the fundamentals then. They are arguing from the same false premises today.
So what should be done? Rishi Sunak was right to push for a £330bn loan package a week ago but that plan was crafted on assumptions of a different pandemic, and events are moving fast. It is no longer enough. "Credit supply is useful only if there is demand. We do not think that will minimise the economic costs of this shock," says Bank of America.


The Chancellor understands this. He has now pledged "significant, direct fiscal action" as he draws up his plan for tonight, but I fear that obstructionists at the Treasury – with pre-modern doctrines of debt sustainability – will put up roadblocks.
He must immediately underwrite wages across vulnerable sectors, take over the short-term costs of businesses that can no longer function, and broadly follow the script of France's Emmanuel Macron that "not a single firm will go bankrupt".
Denmark is covering 75pc of wage costs for companies that would otherwise have to lay them off. Germany already has a longstanding Kurzarbeit system that allows companies to c

ut working hours at the cost of the state during downturns, enabling them to survive intact.
The UK's safety net of £73.10 a week for jobseekers is not the proper tool to deal with a violent unemployment shock beyond anybody's control. The macroeconomic imperative outweighs normal concerns about moral hazard. Savings are too low to tide many people through the crisis. If the state does not step in there will be a cascade of household defaults. We will add a financial crisis to an economic crisis.


I leave it to others to fashion the exact means of injecting fiscal support into the veins of the economy. The Resolution Foundation has published a report – Doing What it Takes – proposing just such a plan. Trade unions have comparable variants. Others suggest a universal basic income. Just do it. The details are secondary.
If this Government commits a second great mistake it will surrender our political system to a proto-revolutionary assault by others waiting to take advantage. If I may borrow from Franklin Roosevelt in his inaugural address: "The nation asks for action, and action now."   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 20, 2020, 04:54:41 PM
London hospital already declares crisis while measures have hardly started
https://twitter.com/LawrenceDunhill/status/1241015122858070018
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on March 20, 2020, 05:16:47 PM
UK government backstopping 80% of salaries up to a max. of 2500 a month ... some statement.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Minder on March 20, 2020, 05:20:53 PM
Some intervention by the UK government
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 20, 2020, 05:23:18 PM
Sunak has been very impressive in his short stint as Chancellor he has the look of a future PM and more capable than that fuzzy p***k in charge!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 20, 2020, 05:25:02 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on March 20, 2020, 05:16:47 PM
UK government backstopping 80% of salaries up to a max. of 2500 a month ... some statement.

Shur they will have a pile of money with the thousands of pensions they won't have to pay , sick Brit scum.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 20, 2020, 05:32:05 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on March 20, 2020, 05:16:47 PM
UK government backstopping 80% of salaries up to a max. of 2500 a month ... some statement.

This is unprecedented. The world is changing forever.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 20, 2020, 05:37:52 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 20, 2020, 05:25:02 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on March 20, 2020, 05:16:47 PM
UK government backstopping 80% of salaries up to a max. of 2500 a month ... some statement.

Shur they will have a pile of money with the thousands of pensions they won't have to pay , sick Brit scum.
Catch yourself on ffs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 20, 2020, 05:40:09 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 20, 2020, 05:37:52 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 20, 2020, 05:25:02 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on March 20, 2020, 05:16:47 PM
UK government backstopping 80% of salaries up to a max. of 2500 a month ... some statement.

Shur they will have a pile of money with the thousands of pensions they won't have to pay , sick Brit scum.
Catch yourself on ffs.

I wouldn't put it past the likes of Dominic Cummings to be thinking in those terms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 20, 2020, 05:53:25 PM
A lot of this thread and a lot of Social Media in general has become unreadable largely due to arguments being delivered along Brexit fault lines / Political affiliation and good old fashioned  Brit bashing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 05:55:02 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on March 20, 2020, 05:16:47 PM
UK government backstopping 80% of salaries up to a max. of 2500 a month ... some statement.

How does that work for salesmen? Low wage high commissions?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 20, 2020, 06:04:57 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 20, 2020, 05:53:25 PM
A lot of this thread and a lot of Social Media in general has become unreadable largely due to arguments being delivered along Brexit fault lines / Political affiliation and good old fashioned  Brit bashing.

Covid19 willl likely be gone in 18 months, the Brits will be causing problems for years to come.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2020, 06:05:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 05:55:02 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on March 20, 2020, 05:16:47 PM
UK government backstopping 80% of salaries up to a max. of 2500 a month ... some statement.

How does that work for salesmen? Low wage high commissions?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/20/politics-latest-news-six-companies-have-made-ventilators-matt/:35pm

Rishi Sunak announces measures to help self-employed

The Chancellor says he is "strengthening the safety net" for the self-employed by suspending the minimum income floor for all those effected by coronavirus.

This means self-employed people can access Universal Credit at a rate equivalent to statutory sick pay for employees.

5:33pm

Universal Credit allowance raised

Rishi Sunak is increasing Universal Credit standard allowance by £1,000-a-year for the next 12 months.

He is also raising the working tax credit basic element by the same amount.

The Chancellor says these measures will protect four million of our "most vulnerable" households.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 20, 2020, 06:10:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2020, 06:04:57 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 20, 2020, 05:53:25 PM
A lot of this thread and a lot of Social Media in general has become unreadable largely due to arguments being delivered along Brexit fault lines / Political affiliation and good old fashioned  Brit bashing.

Covid19 willl likely be gone in 18 months, the Brits will be causing problems for years to come.
That's true
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 20, 2020, 06:35:45 PM
The poor Italians, 672 deaths in 1 day is unthinkable. My heart goes out to them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on March 20, 2020, 06:44:41 PM
Fair play to the Brits for doing this.  Did they clarify how long the 80% scheme would last for and the qualifying criteria ?

Is it for the next 12 wks or as long as the virus is around ?

Is it only for shops, restuarants and pubs that are forced to close or will it include contractors that have no work coming up over this or the likes of O'Neills who have no jerseys to make ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on March 20, 2020, 07:01:06 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 20, 2020, 03:20:36 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 20, 2020, 03:17:24 PM
Quote from: maggie on March 20, 2020, 02:42:09 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on March 20, 2020, 02:24:48 PM
And where should the kids of front line staff go?

Where do they go down south?

So don't close the schools then. As it stands we will have about 60% of the school in.

How come 60%?

Doctors, nurses, lorry drivers - who else are allowed to the school?

Because the job list is as long as your arm. It would be easier naming jobs not on the list ffs.

As a teacher I want to do my bit. I will happily teach remotely or be redeployed to deliver food packages or whatever is needed. But what is the point in half closing the schools. Close them completely. Schools are complete germ factories at the best of times and that amount of children going back out to the community is just spreading the disease quicker. There is also seems to be a f**k the teachers attitude. No one cares if they get sick. A few of the teachers in my school have health conditions and shouldn't be anywhere near school. But now they feel like they have to show up on Monday and put themselves at risk.

Some teachers also need to take their heads out of their hole as well and stop thinking this is an extra holiday. Everybody needs to start thinking that we need to all do our bit to fix this. These are exceptional circumstances and I don't want to look back on this in history and feel like it didn't do my bit.  And to be fair most teachers I have talked to are of the same opinion as me. On the other side of this, some parents are down right just chancing their arm. One parent today rang up and said his child will be in on Monday as his wife is a front line worker. She's a dental nurse and he's a car salesman. It's literally babysitting.
As I said, we all need to try and do our bit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on March 20, 2020, 07:15:58 PM
From page 104 of Rte teletext

Generally you need to be 15 mins or more in the vicinity of an infected person, within 1 to 2 metres, to be considered at risk or a close contact.

Is this true? Yesterday folk were saying fuel pumps were huge spreaders.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 07:19:00 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 20, 2020, 07:01:06 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 20, 2020, 03:20:36 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 20, 2020, 03:17:24 PM
Quote from: maggie on March 20, 2020, 02:42:09 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on March 20, 2020, 02:24:48 PM
And where should the kids of front line staff go?

Where do they go down south?

So don't close the schools then. As it stands we will have about 60% of the school in.

How come 60%?

Doctors, nurses, lorry drivers - who else are allowed to the school?

Because the job list is as long as your arm. It would be easier naming jobs not on the list ffs.

As a teacher I want to do my bit. I will happily teach remotely or be redeployed to deliver food packages or whatever is needed. But what is the point in half closing the schools. Close them completely. Schools are complete germ factories at the best of times and that amount of children going back out to the community is just spreading the disease quicker. There is also seems to be a f**k the teachers attitude. No one cares if they get sick. A few of the teachers in my school have health conditions and shouldn't be anywhere near school. But now they feel like they have to show up on Monday and put themselves at risk.

Some teachers also need to take their heads out of their hole as well and stop thinking this is an extra holiday. Everybody needs to start thinking that we need to all do our bit to fix this. These are exceptional circumstances and I don't want to look back on this in history and feel like it didn't do my bit.  And to be fair most teachers I have talked to are of the same opinion as me. On the other side of this, some parents are down right just chancing their arm. One parent today rang up and said his child will be in on Monday as his wife is a front line worker. She's a dental nurse and he's a car salesman. It's literally babysitting.
As I said, we all need to try and do our bit.

That's just wrong! Our dentists have cancelled the appointments from Monday only essential and emergency dental work, and those cars need to be sold!

But here's the thing, when the kids come in on Monday (wife's school) they will have the kids spaced apart, they'll be doing work and no social activities, lets see how long wee Johnny sticks at that before throwing a wobbler!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: naka on March 20, 2020, 07:22:19 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on March 20, 2020, 06:44:41 PM
Fair play to the Brits for doing this.  Did they clarify how long the 80% scheme would last for and the qualifying criteria ?

Is it for the next 12 wks or as long as the virus is around ?

Is it only for shops, restuarants and pubs that are forced to close or will it include contractors that have no work coming up over this or the likes of O'Neills who have no jerseys to make ?
All business no matter what
Effective from 1 March
Devil in the detail
What if you were trying to keep staff on
Is it better to temporarily let them go?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 20, 2020, 07:29:13 PM
Quote from: Rudi on March 20, 2020, 07:15:58 PM
From page 104 of Rte teletext

Generally you need to be 15 mins or more in the vicinity of an infected person, within 1 to 2 metres, to be considered at risk or a close contact.

Is this true? Yesterday folk were saying fuel pumps were huge spreaders.

That's for coughing, sneezing. Surfaces are another matter and are covered by hand washing and not touching your face.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on March 20, 2020, 07:35:21 PM
Quote from: naka on March 20, 2020, 07:22:19 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on March 20, 2020, 06:44:41 PM
Fair play to the Brits for doing this.  Did they clarify how long the 80% scheme would last for and the qualifying criteria ?

Is it for the next 12 wks or as long as the virus is around ?

Is it only for shops, restuarants and pubs that are forced to close or will it include contractors that have no work coming up over this or the likes of O'Neills who have no jerseys to make ?
All business no matter what
Effective from 1 March
Devil in the detail
What if you were trying to keep staff on
Is it better to temporarily let them go?


What do you mean Naka ?

I thought the idea was if you keep the staff on they will pay 80% of the wages ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: naka on March 20, 2020, 07:43:52 PM
I mean do you have to show:
1 they were going to be laid off
2 how do we police that they are doing no work.
That's the devil in the detail.
The one advantage is that guys who played by the rules and paid full taxes on employees ( no under the table cash) should be fine .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on March 20, 2020, 07:48:09 PM
I think if you can show that your workload or order book has been vastly reduced as a result of the virus then hopefully you will qualify.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 20, 2020, 07:49:23 PM
Frances O'Grady

@FrancesOGrady

This is a breakthrough.

@RishiSunak

has shown real leadership. We're glad he's listened to unions and taken vital steps to support working families. Employers can now be confident they'll be able to pay their wage bills. They must urgently reassure staff that their jobs are safe.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on March 20, 2020, 08:02:16 PM
Naka, the points you raise are absolutely key.

How do you transition people from being in full paid employment to being on this scheme without laying them off; which is the aim?
How do they know which employees are "furloughed" and therefore eligible for this?

I'm waiting for the detail to be published, but on the face of it it's just what was needed in order to take the pressure off individuals who were fearful of being laid off, and the companies that would have been faced with this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: naka on March 20, 2020, 08:07:37 PM
Smokin joe
When I get the answers which I will I will post same.
Strange times
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 20, 2020, 08:16:44 PM
Four members of the family die in US. Not good.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51978164
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 20, 2020, 09:51:48 PM
UK Government advice

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-to-employers-and-businesses-about-covid-19/covid-19-guidance-for-employees (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-to-employers-and-businesses-about-covid-19/covid-19-guidance-for-employees)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 10:04:55 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 20, 2020, 09:51:48 PM
UK Government advice

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-to-employers-and-businesses-about-covid-19/covid-19-guidance-for-employees (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-to-employers-and-businesses-about-covid-19/covid-19-guidance-for-employees)

Seems legit
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on March 20, 2020, 10:16:09 PM
You have got a once in a life time chance to stay at home, watch TV and drink beer to save the world!

Don't screw this up!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 20, 2020, 10:37:42 PM
Does the announcement by the govt today (willing to pay 80% of wages) cover self employed people or is it PAYE only?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: knockitdown on March 20, 2020, 10:41:14 PM
Paye only :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 20, 2020, 10:45:45 PM
Jeez that's shocking. We're snookered then.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 10:47:45 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 20, 2020, 10:45:45 PM
Jeez that's shocking. We're snookered then.

I thought there was money for self employed, maybe not same package though
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on March 20, 2020, 10:50:17 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 20, 2020, 10:37:42 PM
Does the announcement by the govt today (willing to pay 80% of wages) cover self employed people or is it PAYE only?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-to-employers-and-businesses-about-covid-19/covid-19-support-for-businesses
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 20, 2020, 11:21:19 PM
On a lighter theme, on boards.ie they are talking about why nobody in Monaghan has the pox.
- washing hands with the stuff used to wash diesel
- Cavan people wouldn't give it to them bu prefer to keep it for themselves
- Monaghan people are not good hosts
- and the virus  jumped  from bats  to humans, but the gap to Monaghan people is too great  :)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 20, 2020, 11:25:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2020, 11:21:19 PM
On a lighter theme, on boards.ie they are talking about why nobody in Monaghan has the pox.
- washing hands with the stuff used to wash diesel
- Cavan people wouldn't give it to them bu prefer to keep it for themselves
- Monaghan people are not good hosts
- and the virus  jumped  from bats  to humans, but the gap to Monaghan people is too great  :)
All of which seem reasonable explanations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: knockitdown on March 20, 2020, 11:28:41 PM
https://twitter.com/ghs/status/1241050245980708866?s=21

It's taken them almost 4 months, but finally no new cases (reported anyway)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 21, 2020, 01:41:39 AM
Another good article from Tomas Pueyo
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56

Basically you need to do a South Korea.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 21, 2020, 08:03:38 AM
https://www.ft.com/content/bc1cd972-6a8e-11ea-a3c9-1fe6fedcca75

Last week the health secretary, Matt Hancock, had to appeal to British industry to make medical equipment including ventilators, after the EU imposed an export ban.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 21, 2020, 08:07:20 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-community-transmission-now-main-cause-of-irish-cases-1.4208228

More people in Ireland have contracted coronavirus in the community than as a result of foreign travel, the latest figures show.

A total of 137 community transmission cases have been recorded, according to an analysis of confirmed cases, with 132 infections linked to foreign travel.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 21, 2020, 08:38:13 AM
An update on the Key Workers our local school has 210 kids and 4 pupils need the key worker provision and only 3 days a week so more than manageable fair play people aren't taking the piss at a time like this.

I hope other schools are the same!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omagh_gael on March 21, 2020, 09:43:57 AM
Lads wondering if I could get your thoughts. Me and my mate set up a consultancy and training firm last year. We got our first contract and employ a speech and language therapist and occupational therapist 3 days per week each alongside the work we do. We do not employ them through PAYE, they're technically self employed themselves. The service we work in is at high risk of being temporarily shut down due to the vulnerability of the clients to Covid19 meaning our contract will likely be suspended too for the duration.

Am I right in thinking that none of us will be entitled to the 80% scheme announced by the government? I think my reading is that we may only be entitled to the universal credit equivalent. Another headache is that we aren't even a year through our contract so we have not have any tax returns as our business started after April 2019.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on March 21, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 21, 2020, 09:43:57 AM
Lads wondering if I could get your thoughts. Me and my mate set up a consultancy and training firm last year. We got our first contract and employ a speech and language therapist and occupational therapist 3 days per week each alongside the work we do. We do not employ them through PAYE, they're technically self employed themselves. The service we work in is at high risk of being temporarily shut down due to the vulnerability of the clients to Covid19 meaning our contract will likely be suspended too for the duration.

Am I right in thinking that none of us will be entitled to the 80% scheme announced by the government? I think my reading is that we may only be entitled to the universal credit equivalent. Another headache is that we aren't even a year through our contract so we have not have any tax returns as our business started after April 2019.

It's not what you want to hear, but the 80% grant is only for PAYE workers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ty4Sam on March 21, 2020, 09:56:17 AM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 21, 2020, 09:43:57 AM
Lads wondering if I could get your thoughts. Me and my mate set up a consultancy and training firm last year. We got our first contract and employ a speech and language therapist and occupational therapist 3 days per week each alongside the work we do. We do not employ them through PAYE, they're technically self employed themselves. The service we work in is at high risk of being temporarily shut down due to the vulnerability of the clients to Covid19 meaning our contract will likely be suspended too for the duration.

Am I right in thinking that none of us will be entitled to the 80% scheme announced by the government? I think my reading is that we may only be entitled to the universal credit equivalent. Another headache is that we aren't even a year through our contract so we have not have any tax returns as our business started after April 2019.

Unfortunately it would seem so. £94 a week! There is pressure building though so hopefully they address it. There are 5 million self employed in UK, surely they have to come up with something for them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omagh_gael on March 21, 2020, 10:12:43 AM
Cheers lads, was certain we'd fallen into the dreaded grey area. I saw someone on twitter there saying a paid employee on 30k will get 24k under new scheme. A self employed contractor will take home 4.8k.

Something has to give here you'd imagine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 21, 2020, 10:45:22 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 21, 2020, 08:38:13 AM
An update on the Key Workers our local school has 210 kids and 4 pupils need the key worker provision and only 3 days a week so more than manageable fair play people aren't taking the piss at a time like this.

I hope other schools are the same!

Times like this bring out the best in people and also the worst. Know of someone who is very well off, has a nanny to look after the kids and asked the school with a straight face if they qualified as a key worker because they used to be a nurse. FFS, what is wrong with people.  Some people have their heads so far up their arses.

Also, heard of government workers getting emails telling them they are key workers including one in particular who works in Belfast Castle. Crazy. Difficult for the schools as they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. There are good teachers trying their best and others who will treat this as a holiday. It's a time for new ideas and thinking outside the box.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on March 21, 2020, 11:26:52 AM
If you do nothing else today please listen to this. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0877mb2
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 21, 2020, 11:47:46 AM
It's very hard to understand the logic behind the reluctance to lockdown, every single doctor I've listened to or read said their country wont cope unless the curve is flattened , you can't flatten this curve without lockdown , social distancing is been adhered to by most but not near enough to  be effective in the way they want . Several groups of youths I have witnessed just yesterday gathering . On Thursday morning I had a confrontation with a lad on site , washing his hands and face in the canteen sink with all cups feeling the full brunt of his face washing . 

My point is it's not going to work unless you apply the lockdown , you can force people to stay in their home through the law , enforce it now with immediate effect or we are going to see an awful situation develop here .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on March 21, 2020, 12:05:19 PM
Quote from: Ty4Sam on March 21, 2020, 09:56:17 AM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 21, 2020, 09:43:57 AM
Lads wondering if I could get your thoughts. Me and my mate set up a consultancy and training firm last year. We got our first contract and employ a speech and language therapist and occupational therapist 3 days per week each alongside the work we do. We do not employ them through PAYE, they're technically self employed themselves. The service we work in is at high risk of being temporarily shut down due to the vulnerability of the clients to Covid19 meaning our contract will likely be suspended too for the duration.

Am I right in thinking that none of us will be entitled to the 80% scheme announced by the government? I think my reading is that we may only be entitled to the universal credit equivalent. Another headache is that we aren't even a year through our contract so we have not have any tax returns as our business started after April 2019.

Unfortunately it would seem so. £94 a week! There is pressure building though so hopefully they address it. There are 5 million self employed in UK, surely they have to come up with something for them.

Going to have too, the wife and I are both self employed and whilst my business should be ok for the next 3 months it may get a bit tricky from July onwards; The wife's does recruitment and business has clearly fallen off a cliff so at its stands its £94 a week. Luckily for us we have savings and can get through this but I'm sure the majority of the 5 million self employed don't and are in financial trouble. We've got a situation where someone could have started work in February after not worked for 5 years or even their relatively new into the country and their been looked after whereas a 60 year old who's self employed and paid into the system for 40 years and never claimed anything in their life has been cast aside, doesn't seem fair does it?

My wife is in a funny situation, paid NI for the last 15 years but started off on in her own in November and accountant told her non need to pay NI until April 2020 as she'd already contributed more than enough from April to October. I've a horrible feeling she'll be left out again next week when I expect more announcements are made.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 21, 2020, 12:33:47 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 21, 2020, 11:26:52 AM
If you do nothing else today please listen to this. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0877mb2

Its grim. What a pity people like Nolan didnt use their platform earlier like proper journalist to question the idiotic response of Boris Johnson. The man said it will be a miracle if its kept to 20k deaths, he is right about that.

The other thing the struck me was this doctor telling people to prioritise health over their job. What good is your job if you are dead. One of my observations when I watch the bbc news and to an extent listen to the 6 co folk on here, there is almost as much talk about jobs and economy than there is about death. In my own experience in the south people are only talking about health and I'm talking about people who's business has collapsed. I'm not sure why that's the case, maybe the government in south is just doing a better job of communicating how dire this is going to be
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 21, 2020, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 21, 2020, 11:26:52 AM
If you do nothing else today please listen to this. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0877mb2

This link was up earlier

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 21, 2020, 01:16:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 21, 2020, 12:33:47 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 21, 2020, 11:26:52 AM
If you do nothing else today please listen to this. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0877mb2

Its grim. What a pity people like Nolan didnt use their platform earlier like proper journalist to question the idiotic response of Boris Johnson. The man said it will be a miracle if its kept to 20k deaths, he is right about that.

The other thing the struck me was this doctor telling people to prioritise health over their job. What good is your job if you are dead. One of my observations when I watch the bbc news and to an extent listen to the 6 co folk on here, there is almost as much talk about jobs and economy than there is about death. In my own experience in the south people are only talking about health and I'm talking about people who's business has collapsed. I'm not sure why that's the case, maybe the government in south is just doing a better job of communicating how dire this is going to be
Maybe we're still a Society and haven't fully become an "Economy" yet.
Maybe the Election outcome showed we still want it to stay that way?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2020, 01:37:13 PM
Someone was on earlier posting about political bashing

In the North for years we had to contend with themus and us'ss! The amount of southern posters bashing on about the brits on here since Brexit and now the virus would sicken your hole!

If they'd put that amount of effort into this place during the troubles we'd be united years ago :D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 21, 2020, 02:04:53 PM
Feeling better now you've got that rant off your chest?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 21, 2020, 02:17:52 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 21, 2020, 12:33:47 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 21, 2020, 11:26:52 AM
If you do nothing else today please listen to this. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0877mb2
The other thing the struck me was this doctor telling people to prioritise health over their job. What good is your job if you are dead. One of my observations when I watch the bbc news and to an extent listen to the 6 co folk on here, there is almost as much talk about jobs and economy than there is about death. In my own experience in the south people are only talking about health and I'm talking about people who's business has collapsed. I'm not sure why that's the case, maybe the government in south is just doing a better job of communicating how dire this is going to be

If you have lost your job then you are safer from the virus as you do not have to go to work and mingle with people, so your concerns about  the virus my be eased but a new concern about economics arises.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on March 21, 2020, 02:47:44 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 21, 2020, 11:26:52 AM
If you do nothing else today please listen to this. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0877mb2

A wake up call. Hopefully the message gets through.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 21, 2020, 04:05:26 PM
Driving through Armagh today and although cafes etc. closed I can't see much adjustment in people's attitudes. Supermarket car parks rammed, people dandering about drinking coffee (takeaway still allowed), roads still relatively busy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bannside on March 21, 2020, 04:07:12 PM
Great listen. Thanks Ambrose.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 21, 2020, 05:28:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2020, 01:37:13 PM
Someone was on earlier posting about political bashing

In the North for years we had to contend with themus and us'ss! The amount of southern posters bashing on about the brits on here since Brexit and now the virus would sicken your hole!

If they'd put that amount of effort into this place during the troubles we'd be united years ago :D

Because the brits response to this was pathetic, herd immunity - remember that. Our experts better than yours etc. If you dont accept that then you really must have your head up your arse. People will die that should not have died due to the Brits response.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 21, 2020, 05:30:27 PM
The figures remain shocking in Italy with 6,557 new cases and 793 deaths today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 21, 2020, 05:49:10 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 20, 2020, 04:15:05 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 19, 2020, 09:39:16 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 19, 2020, 07:17:16 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 19, 2020, 07:12:11 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 18, 2020, 07:37:07 PM
The UK have 104 deaths as of today.  If we / they are tracking at the same rate as Italy the number tomorrow should be approx 145.
Will be interesting to see.
144!

That was very accurate. What's your thoughts on the upcoming days

It'll be approx 190 - 195
184 at the minute. Likely to be close to 195 by end of day.
That UK figure doesn't seem to stacking up with just 3 deaths today. Any reason for that, as it's gone against the trend of every other country at the same point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on March 21, 2020, 05:53:17 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 21, 2020, 05:28:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2020, 01:37:13 PM
Someone was on earlier posting about political bashing

In the North for years we had to contend with themus and us'ss! The amount of southern posters bashing on about the brits on here since Brexit and now the virus would sicken your hole!

If they'd put that amount of effort into this place during the troubles we'd be united years ago :D

Because the brits response to this was pathetic, herd immunity - remember that. Our experts better than yours etc. If you dont accept that then you really must have your head up your arse. People will die that should not have died due to the Brits response.

Again, I have to agree with Itchy 100%. I'm from the north, but living in the south, so I'm aware of the different approaches to date.

I really am concerned about the north, both my parents are in their early 70s and the approach by Boris has been beyond negligent. It isn't just people from the 26 counties that have being questioning the Tory party approach,  Joe Brolly, numerous health officials, RC church, teaching unions and many many more have being pushing for earlier school closures, pubs closing etc, and other procedures recommended by the w.h.o.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 21, 2020, 05:56:31 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 21, 2020, 05:49:10 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 20, 2020, 04:15:05 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 19, 2020, 09:39:16 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 19, 2020, 07:17:16 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 19, 2020, 07:12:11 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 18, 2020, 07:37:07 PM
The UK have 104 deaths as of today.  If we / they are tracking at the same rate as Italy the number tomorrow should be approx 145.
Will be interesting to see.
144!

That was very accurate. What's your thoughts on the upcoming days

It'll be approx 190 - 195
184 at the minute. Likely to be close to 195 by end of day.
That UK figure doesn't seem to stacking up with just 3 deaths today. Any reason for that, as it's gone against the trend of every other country at the same point.

223 people have passed away in England now. Britain reached the 100 death mark sooner than Italy according to the Economist, not sure if they're still experiencing that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 21, 2020, 06:06:59 PM
I still don't think the gravity of this has struck with some people, this will escalate for another two months or so, it will lead to huge numbers in terms of loss of life. I don't think Italy are an outlier in terms of severity, I think they were the least well prepared for it but I expect similar relative numbers across most of Europe.

The UK is fucked.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 21, 2020, 06:09:31 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 21, 2020, 06:00:49 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 21, 2020, 05:49:10 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 20, 2020, 04:15:05 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 19, 2020, 09:39:16 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 19, 2020, 07:17:16 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 19, 2020, 07:12:11 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 18, 2020, 07:37:07 PM
The UK have 104 deaths as of today.  If we / they are tracking at the same rate as Italy the number tomorrow should be approx 145.
Will be interesting to see.
144!

That was very accurate. What's your thoughts on the upcoming days

It'll be approx 190 - 195
184 at the minute. Likely to be close to 195 by end of day.
That UK figure doesn't seem to stacking up with just 3 deaths today. Any reason for that, as it's gone against the trend of every other country at the same point.
53 today?
Apologies, I was going on the figures of worldometer. They had it logged at 187 yesterday, and then just 3 more today, but they have now changed it. I actually think they maybe be updating it as it goes. I thought once it showed red that was their count for the day?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 21, 2020, 06:13:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 21, 2020, 06:06:59 PM
I still don't think the gravity of this has struck with some people, this will escalate for another two months or so, it will lead to huge numbers in terms of loss of life. I don't think Italy are an outlier in terms of severity, I think they were the least well prepared for it but I expect similar relative numbers across most of Europe.

The UK is fucked.

I think you are wrong about Italy being least well prepared. Italy has twice the amount of critical care beds per 100,000 citizens than the UK or Ireland has. They were overwhelmed. Perhaps their initial response was poor, I didn't know. What is certain is that if we get proportionately the amount of cases that Italy got then we are totally fucked
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on March 21, 2020, 06:15:37 PM
The UK is at 233.  Which, as if by magic, is exactly the number of deaths Italy were at 14 days ago.
Today, Italy recorded almost 800 deaths.  The UK is headed for worse than this unless they really step things up, and it may already be too late!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2020, 06:19:38 PM
Quote from: ardtole on March 21, 2020, 05:53:17 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 21, 2020, 05:28:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2020, 01:37:13 PM
Someone was on earlier posting about political bashing

In the North for years we had to contend with themus and us'ss! The amount of southern posters bashing on about the brits on here since Brexit and now the virus would sicken your hole!

If they'd put that amount of effort into this place during the troubles we'd be united years ago :D

Because the brits response to this was pathetic, herd immunity - remember that. Our experts better than yours etc. If you dont accept that then you really must have your head up your arse. People will die that should not have died due to the Brits response.

Again, I have to agree with Itchy 100%. I'm from the north, but living in the south, so I'm aware of the different approaches to date.

I really am concerned about the north, both my parents are in their early 70s and the approach by Boris has been beyond negligent. It isn't just people from the 26 counties that have being questioning the Tory party approach,  Joe Brolly, numerous health officials, RC church, teaching unions and many many more have being pushing for earlier school closures, pubs closing etc, and other procedures recommended by the w.h.o.

Im not getting at how poor Britain has reacted to it, I'm getting at the completely senseless point scoring on, we are better they are not! Stupid stuff really but whatever makes you feel happy about yourself.

On a serious note, if the whole island doesn't go into full lockdown properly then this will wipe out most people over 65 with underlying conditions! was chatting with a health care boss recently and the measures and plans in places to try and facilitate this will never be enough.

Get used to the social distancing as this will run through possibly till we get a vaccine
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 21, 2020, 06:23:44 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 21, 2020, 06:15:37 PM
The UK is at 233.  Which, as if by magic, is exactly the number of deaths Italy were at 14 days ago.
Today, Italy recorded almost 800 deaths.  The UK is headed for worse than this unless they really step things up, and it may already be too late!

Italy launched national measures 17 days ago, having already had measures in some districts. The latter worked to a large extent as the deaths are not greatest in the district where the outbreak started. However, deaths in particular lag a long time behind.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2020, 06:19:38 PM
On a serious note, if the whole island doesn't go into full lockdown properly then this will wipe out most people over 65 with underlying conditions! was chatting with a health care boss recently and the measures and plans in places to try and facilitate this will never be enough.

Singapore and Taiwan have not locked down. The measures will work, it is irresponsible people that we have a problem with.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 21, 2020, 06:25:28 PM
No harm MR2 but I haven't seen anything like that on this thread. People are genuinely worried at their poor response, including many many of their own citizens.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2020, 06:29:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 21, 2020, 06:23:44 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 21, 2020, 06:15:37 PM
The UK is at 233.  Which, as if by magic, is exactly the number of deaths Italy were at 14 days ago.
Today, Italy recorded almost 800 deaths.  The UK is headed for worse than this unless they really step things up, and it may already be too late!

Italy launched national measures 17 days ago, having already had measures in some districts. The latter worked to a large extent as the deaths are not greatest in the district where the outbreak started. However, deaths in particular lag a long time behind.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2020, 06:19:38 PM
On a serious note, if the whole island doesn't go into full lockdown properly then this will wipe out most people over 65 with underlying conditions! was chatting with a health care boss recently and the measures and plans in places to try and facilitate this will never be enough.

Singapore and Taiwan have not locked down. The measures will work, it is irresponsible people that we have a problem with.

So lockdown then, as those irresponsible people are out there and need to be forced. There are more cases in the south of people giving it to others through social engagement rather than those that brought it in

Russia one death recorded and 600 odd cases recorded. Seems strange
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 21, 2020, 06:33:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 21, 2020, 05:49:10 PM
That UK figure doesn't seem to stacking up with just 3 deaths today. Any reason for that, as it's gone against the trend of every other country at the same point.
[/quote]

One day is not a long enough period to tell, looking at the 3 day moving average or similar measure would be more helpful. But there may be differences, the virus spread in Italy before people gave it any thought whatsoever. In Britain, the government may have been delinquent, but many people may have done a bit more all the same, not enough to prevent it but enough to reduce numbers.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2020, 06:29:27 PM
So lockdown then, as those irresponsible people are out there and need to be forced. There are more cases in the south of people giving it to others through social engagement rather than those that brought it in

Ireland lacks the enforcement resources to force people, you are still relying on most people being responsible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2020, 06:34:19 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 21, 2020, 06:25:28 PM
No harm MR2 but I haven't seen anything like that on this thread. People are genuinely worried at their poor response, including many many of their own citizens.

No harm to you but what does that actually achieve? Everyone knows the shit storm that Boris's government has went with but repeatedly stating it on here won't change that, but if it makes you feel good to bring it up, then charge on!

Can we not deal with how things are now without the bashing? I've tried to educate family friends work colleagues, it doesn't matter as people will continue to carry on regardless until it's forced.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 21, 2020, 06:34:36 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 21, 2020, 06:13:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 21, 2020, 06:06:59 PM
I still don't think the gravity of this has struck with some people, this will escalate for another two months or so, it will lead to huge numbers in terms of loss of life. I don't think Italy are an outlier in terms of severity, I think they were the least well prepared for it but I expect similar relative numbers across most of Europe.

The UK is fucked.

I think you are wrong about Italy being least well prepared. Italy has twice the amount of critical care beds per 100,000 citizens than the UK or Ireland has. They were overwhelmed. Perhaps their initial response was poor, I didn't know. What is certain is that if we get proportionately the amount of cases that Italy got then we are totally fucked

Least well prepared in that Italy was where the outbreak started in Europe, most countries had a two week head start to take proactive measures that Italy did not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on March 21, 2020, 06:37:11 PM
I certainly wasn't point scoring, I'm just very concerned about the political reaction to the coronavirus in the uk and particularly the north.

It was in everyones interest to treat this as a 32 county problem. But because Leo closed the schools and gave Stormont little or no heads up, the dup dug their heels in and refused to follow the lead of Dublin.

It's so bloody childish, infuriating and just when your hoping the north is turning a corner and possibly making some progress the dup cant even stomach taking advice from the w.h.o because their British scientists know better than the scientists in the rest of the world.

The arrogance sickens me, there will be a heavy price to pay for these acts of petulance and it is our families, friends and neighbours who pay it.

In fairness to Fine Gael ( and I certainly couldn't be accused of supporting them), they have handled this a lot more decisively than their counterparts in Stormont and the UK.

They closed down the St Patrick's festivities which caused Dublin traders many millions, whilst Cheltenham and other events went ahead in the uk.

There are other examples too, but I'm angry the way the tories tried initially to treat the coronavirus case as an economic problem rather than a humanitarian problem.

I really hope I'm wrong, I'd be delighted to be wrong, but listening to front line Doctors, Consultants etc it is frightening the picture they are painting and a lot of it could have been prevented.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 21, 2020, 06:37:24 PM
Taiwan and Singapore are slightly different as they are extremely densely populated places, and they have a long established practice surrounding contact tracing. I think someone actualy posted a great article on this thread. Ireland are trying to pile a lot resources in to this now and it is helping, but eventually it will become of no use once the numbers pile up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 21, 2020, 06:51:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2020, 06:34:19 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 21, 2020, 06:25:28 PM
No harm MR2 but I haven't seen anything like that on this thread. People are genuinely worried at their poor response, including many many of their own citizens.

No harm to you but what does that actually achieve? Everyone knows the shit storm that Boris's government has went with but repeatedly stating it on here won't change that, but if it makes you feel good to bring it up, then charge on!

Can we not deal with how things are now without the bashing? I've tried to educate family friends work colleagues, it doesn't matter as people will continue to carry on regardless until it's forced.
Firstly what does any of your posts on here attempt to achieve? They are just a constant stream across multiple topics of "it's not that bad, what are people moaning about" Like some aul fella in the pub piping up in to a conversation he knows little about  ;D

Secondly, everyone clearly doesn't know the shit storm that is coming. That's part of the issue. You have actually stated that yourself, so that's a bit contradictive.

Thirdly stating it does help. I've seen people on this very thread take it more seriously when presented with the information, and I include myself on that. I have managed to convince British friends and family by stating it. And it certainly doesn't make me feel good. The very opposite in fact.

Lastly your partly right, for some people it won't sink in until measures are increased and there is greater restrictions in place, but I don't think people should just sit back and say nothing especially if they think it might help. But sure look if it makes you feel good just posting a way that's it all just a
waste of time then charge on sure. I hope you and your family stay safe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2020, 06:55:02 PM
Quote from: ardtole on March 21, 2020, 06:37:11 PM
I certainly wasn't point scoring, I'm just very concerned about the political reaction to the coronavirus in the uk and particularly the north.

It was in everyones interest to treat this as a 32 county problem. But because Leo closed the schools and gave Stormont little or no heads up, the dup dug their heels in and refused to follow the lead of Dublin.

It's so bloody childish, infuriating and just when your hoping the north is turning a corner and possibly making some progress the dup cant even stomach taking advice from the w.h.o because their British scientists know better than the scientists in the rest of the world.

The arrogance sickens me, there will be a heavy price to pay for these acts of petulance and it is our families, friends and neighbours who pay it.

In fairness to Fine Gael ( and I certainly couldn't be accused of supporting them), they have handled this a lot more decisively than their counterparts in Stormont and the UK.

They closed down the St Patrick's festivities which caused Dublin traders many millions, whilst Cheltenham and other events went ahead in the uk.

There are other examples too, but I'm angry the way the tories tried initially to treat the coronavirus case as an economic problem rather than a humanitarian problem.

I really hope I'm wrong, I'd be delighted to be wrong, but listening to front line Doctors, Consultants etc it is frightening the picture they are painting and a lot of it could have been prevented.

None of it could have been prevented unless they locked down from when the first case happened in China!

Certainly reduced numbers but now Ireland has this virus forever, it won't go away it'll be hopefully a vaccinated virus but it's with us now. Countries actually need to look into why it happened and start at source, fix or put resources into reducing these outbreaks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2020, 06:56:17 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 21, 2020, 06:51:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2020, 06:34:19 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 21, 2020, 06:25:28 PM
No harm MR2 but I haven't seen anything like that on this thread. People are genuinely worried at their poor response, including many many of their own citizens.

No harm to you but what does that actually achieve? Everyone knows the shit storm that Boris's government has went with but repeatedly stating it on here won't change that, but if it makes you feel good to bring it up, then charge on!

Can we not deal with how things are now without the bashing? I've tried to educate family friends work colleagues, it doesn't matter as people will continue to carry on regardless until it's forced.
Firstly what does any of your posts on here attempt to achieve? They are just a constant stream across multiple topics of "it's not that bad, what are people moaning about" Like some aul fella in the pub piping up in to a conversation he knows little about  ;D

Secondly, everyone clearly doesn't know the shit storm that is coming. That's part of the issue. You have actually stated that yourself, so that's a bit contradictive.

Thirdly stating it does help. I've seen people on this very thread take it more seriously when presented with the information, and I include myself on that. I have managed to convince British friends and family by stating it. And it certainly doesn't make me feel good. The very opposite in fact.

Lastly your partly right, for some people it won't sink in until measures are increased and there is greater restrictions in place, but I don't think people should just sit back and say nothing especially if they think it might help. But sure look if it makes you feel good just posting a way that's it all just a
waste of time then charge on sure. I hope you and your family stay safe.

And your family too, hopefully no one gets it, unfortunately that's not the case going on the prediction.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 21, 2020, 07:04:24 PM
102 new cases today in the 26.
13 in total in ICUs.

Fleadh Náisiúnta in Mullingar called off.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 21, 2020, 07:08:10 PM
Think it was 53/5 in the Uk today chaps the 3 mustve been a misprint
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 21, 2020, 07:26:59 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 21, 2020, 06:37:24 PM
Taiwan and Singapore are slightly different as they are extremely densely populated places, and they have a long established practice surrounding contact tracing. I think someone actualy posted a great article on this thread. Ireland are trying to pile a lot resources in to this now and it is helping, but eventually it will become of no use once the numbers pile up.

Taiwan and Singapore show that if you pile in the resources,  then the numbers do not pile up because the contacts are told to isolate.
The ROI has hundreds of people contact tracing and is adding more. The testing so far shows about 6% of people tested with the virus, even though those  tested were all people who were contacts or had a probable symptom. New testing is visibly coming on stream. so things are not wholly out of control yet. Now there are measures mentioned in the article I posted last night which we do not do, notably temperature testing. Someone with a fever, howsoever caused, would not be allowed into a building in Singapore or even on the metro. Now this less effective with Covid19 because you can transmit the virus before the fever, but everything helps.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 21, 2020, 07:33:08 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 21, 2020, 07:08:10 PM
Think it was 53/5 in the Uk today chaps the 3 mustve been a misprint
I'm not sure what happened there. I definitely saw 3, then 33 then 56.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: manfromdelmonte on March 21, 2020, 08:55:13 PM
Are they doing any contact tracing in the UK?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2020, 08:55:33 PM
North Korea has it sorted! Just block your borders, full stop!  :-X

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 21, 2020, 08:57:22 PM
https://www.politico.com/amp/news/magazine/2020/03/19/coronavirus-effect-economy-life-society-analysis-covid-135579
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: square_ball on March 21, 2020, 09:01:29 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 21, 2020, 07:33:08 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 21, 2020, 07:08:10 PM
Think it was 53/5 in the Uk today chaps the 3 mustve been a misprint
I'm not sure what happened there. I definitely saw 3, then 33 then 56.

I've seen that in the last week. It seems to update in stages. I thought once updated that was that for the day but seemingly not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 21, 2020, 09:16:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2020, 06:55:02 PM
None of it could have been prevented unless they locked down from when the first case happened in China

That's not true - if they had enforced a 2 week quarantine on anyone coming into the country from any other country with the virus, then they'd have kept a big lid on 90% of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 21, 2020, 09:57:42 PM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/former-real-madrid-president-lorenzo-sanz-has-died-of-covid-19-virus-39064491.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 21, 2020, 10:01:25 PM
Quote from: square_ball on March 21, 2020, 09:01:29 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 21, 2020, 07:33:08 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 21, 2020, 07:08:10 PM
Think it was 53/5 in the Uk today chaps the 3 mustve been a misprint
I'm not sure what happened there. I definitely saw 3, then 33 then 56.

I've seen that in the last week. It seems to update in stages. I thought once updated that was that for the day but seemingly not.
Good man square ball, I did start to think that the excess drink in self isolation was getting to me lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 22, 2020, 01:30:27 AM
Some interesting data in this paper (https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evidence-over-hysteria-covid-19-1b767def5894), he text is largely nonsense. The data includes that the virus only does well in a temperate zone, so Vietnam, Singapore is too hot and perhaps Russia is a bit chilly for it to thrive. This theory would suggest that Italy and Spain will get relief in the summer.

There is also this chart . Being on the left of this  chart is good and top left is best (lots  of tests  and few cases)
(https://i.ibb.co/K574Gnv/tests-vs-confirmed-cases-covid-19.png) (https://ibb.co/9p2KvP5)
Ireland is kind of in the middle.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 22, 2020, 10:31:30 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 22, 2020, 01:30:27 AM
Some interesting data in this paper (https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evidence-over-hysteria-covid-19-1b767def5894), he text is largely nonsense. The data includes that the virus only does well in a temperate zone, so Vietnam, Singapore is too hot and perhaps Russia is a bit chilly for it to thrive. This theory would suggest that Italy and Spain will get relief in the summer.

There is also this chart . Being on the left of this  chart is good and top left is best (lots  of tests  and few cases)
(https://i.ibb.co/K574Gnv/tests-vs-confirmed-cases-covid-19.png) (https://ibb.co/9p2KvP5)
Ireland is kind of in the middle.

Studies carried out in China showed that the climate in different cities showed a very slight effect on the spread of the virus, with hotter/more humid cities having a slightly lower rate of infection.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 22, 2020, 11:34:18 AM
I would recommend buying the Sunday Times (UK) to read the inside story of the the last week or so inside the UK Government, it reads like a novel. The main article is '10 days that shook Britain - and changed the nation for ever'  (Tim Shipman & Caroline Wheeler), if anyone can get it online.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 22, 2020, 11:39:37 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 22, 2020, 11:34:18 AM
I would recommend buying the Sunday Times (UK) to read the inside story of the the last week or so inside the UK Government, it reads like a novel. The main article is '10 days that shook Britain - and changed the nation for ever'  (Tim Shipman & Caroline Wheeler), if anyone can get it online.
Have it bought but as usual it'll be hours before I read it. Is it in the ST the reported comments from Cummings that are all over Twitter this morning?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 22, 2020, 12:01:45 PM
Yeah, that's included but incidental tbh, just a great read.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 12:21:53 PM
Reading the Irish Sunday times and it's saying govt are just finalising "state set to pay 75% of wages for virus hit jobs "

Where in the fook is this money coming from?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 22, 2020, 12:32:52 PM
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/cummings-led-government-strategy-which-protected-economy-and-put-elderly-at-risk/22/03/

Cummings is every bit as vile as he is made out to me. This man (if you can call him that) is a glorified SPAD. How has he got anywhere near pulling the levers of power?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 22, 2020, 12:35:24 PM
I read in maybe 2 if not 3 articles about the unsustainable nature of the UK's economic intervention long term, plenty of reference to it being unsustainable long term socially as well. Austerity again for future generations. I guess the Republic will be dancing with Troika again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 12:53:14 PM
Any noticeable differences in Ireland due to Cheltenham? Was there a peak or higher number due to those that returned?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on March 22, 2020, 12:59:34 PM
Dont think so. But anyone who contracted the virus at Cheltenham would probably be only displaying the symptoms now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 01:03:20 PM
40k waiting on a test , really think we need to baton down the hatches now , numbers could be catastrophic if we don't act soon .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 22, 2020, 01:11:45 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 12:21:53 PM
Reading the Irish Sunday times and it's saying govt are just finalising "state set to pay 75% of wages for virus hit jobs "

Where in the fook is this money coming from?
The same place as Italy, France, Germany and the other EU States will get the money from.
Some economist I read saying the final bill for us could reach €20 Bn.
One thing in our favour is that it is a global problem (except Norway who have so much money nothing will shake them).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 01:19:05 PM
It'll solve the obesity problems when they hand out the ration cards
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on March 22, 2020, 01:38:14 PM
Is food really going to be an issue during this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 01:55:34 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 22, 2020, 01:38:14 PM
Is food really going to be an issue during this?

Will we get fresh food produce from Spain? Fruit veg and so on? Food processing Factory workers who may end up with the virus, also distribution of food.

Lady was in radio the other day saying it could go back to the times after the 2nd world war, with regards to getting the country back on its feet economic wise. It did sound doomsday stuff but she was an economist, so probably full of shit
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 22, 2020, 02:02:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 01:55:34 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 22, 2020, 01:38:14 PM
Is food really going to be an issue during this?

Will we get fresh food produce from Spain? Fruit veg and so on? Food processing Factory workers who may end up with the virus, also distribution of food.

Lady was in radio the other day saying it could go back to the times after the 2nd world war, with regards to getting the country back on its feet economic wise. It did sound doomsday stuff but she was an economist, so probably full of shit
The vast majority of people will be ill but will get better and return to work, food production will not stop. Bullshit sensationalism needs nipped in the bud. The media will 'Grand old Duke of York' this situation and then go totally the opposite direction after a while.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 22, 2020, 02:35:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 22, 2020, 01:11:45 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 12:21:53 PM
Reading the Irish Sunday times and it's saying govt are just finalising "state set to pay 75% of wages for virus hit jobs "

Where in the fook is this money coming from?
The same place as Italy, France, Germany and the other EU States will get the money from.
Some economist I read saying the final bill for us could reach €20 Bn.
One thing in our favour is that it is a global problem (except Norway who have so much money nothing will shake them).

Interest rates for borrowing long term are very low. It'll be paid off at leisure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:30:18 PM
I seen they are really understanding the Virus situation in Bettytown, bunged
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 03:34:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:30:18 PM
I seen they are really understanding the Virus situation in Bettytown, bunged

Bettystown video I seen was just cars , I'd be more interested in seeing the actual people on the beach
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:40:15 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 03:34:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:30:18 PM
I seen they are really understanding the Virus situation in Bettytown, bunged

Bettystown video I seen was just cars , I'd be more interested in seeing the actual people on the beach

You think they are just sitting in the car? Why are these places open?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 03:43:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:40:15 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 03:34:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:30:18 PM
I seen they are really understanding the Virus situation in Bettytown, bunged

Bettystown video I seen was just cars , I'd be more interested in seeing the actual people on the beach

You think they are just sitting in the car? Why are these places open?

I agree with your sentiment but all I'm saying, how are we to know they aren't social distancing on the beech ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:50:11 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 03:43:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:40:15 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 03:34:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:30:18 PM
I seen they are really understanding the Virus situation in Bettytown, bunged

Bettystown video I seen was just cars , I'd be more interested in seeing the actual people on the beach

You think they are just sitting in the car? Why are these places open?

I agree with your sentiment but all I'm saying, how are we to know they aren't social distancing on the beech ?

So my daughter came in earlier said they are heading to the local dams, four friends from four different houses, kids that have come back from different colleges, now there may be a case of just families from one house at the beach, but 1 they ain't sitting in their cars unless it's raining, 2 they probably filling their cars up at local stations and going into the shops touching all round them and 3 if it's teenagers then they ain't following any hygiene procedures!

Needless to say my daughter got a stern no.  if I'm social distancing and others are not, is there any point? Forced lockdown don't leave it to the public to decide
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Under Lights on March 22, 2020, 03:51:48 PM
No harm in going for a drive and looking at the ocean
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:54:51 PM
Quote from: Under Lights on March 22, 2020, 03:51:48 PM
No harm in going for a drive and looking at the ocean

So if four teenagers are in a car from different families that's ok?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 22, 2020, 04:17:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:54:51 PM
Quote from: Under Lights on March 22, 2020, 03:51:48 PM
No harm in going for a drive and looking at the ocean

So if four teenagers are in a car from different families that's ok?

It's idiotic at best.

However families who live in the same house going for a drive or a walk in an open space while maintaining their distance from others shouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 04:28:41 PM
Beaches are closed In Australia Italy Croatia and other counties, I'm not talking about families here, I'm talking about the dimwits that are driving around in groups and come back to their own houses.

But sure people are on the FB page of this video explaining that they thought it's only a walk, until people from other countries started actually explain their own experiences.

I've two dogs, I'm up at 8 away to walk the dogs and staying clear of anyone, you can do it but not in bulk.

Shaws bridge in Belfast apparently the same, a popular walk area bunged with people
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 22, 2020, 04:49:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:40:15 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 03:34:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:30:18 PM
I seen they are really understanding the Virus situation in Bettytown, bunged

Bettystown video I seen was just cars , I'd be more interested in seeing the actual people on the beach

You think they are just sitting in the car? Why are these places open?

How do you close a beach? I went for a walk on the beach this morning. It was very obvious that social distancing is being observed by 90% of people. I saw one group of teenage looking girls not observing it  but maybe they were sisters from same household, I don't know. Maybe as day moved on the hordes arrived, some people are just very stupid and it's a shame they arent the ones that will be worst effected by their stupidity
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 05:02:31 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 22, 2020, 04:49:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:40:15 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 03:34:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:30:18 PM
I seen they are really understanding the Virus situation in Bettytown, bunged

Bettystown video I seen was just cars , I'd be more interested in seeing the actual people on the beach

You think they are just sitting in the car? Why are these places open?

How do you close a beach? I went for a walk on the beach this morning. It was very obvious that social distancing is being observed by 90% of people. I saw one group of teenage looking girls not observing it  but maybe they were sisters from same household, I don't know.

Seen images of a beach, had place tape across it, signs up and police are enforcing it by arresting charging and fining people. Simple enough I'd say
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 22, 2020, 05:04:39 PM
I've seen plenty of videos of people (and surfers) being arrested on the beaches in Spain and other countries.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bannside on March 22, 2020, 05:18:35 PM
In 2015 the World Health Organisation reported that 9.1 million died in the previous twelve months of starvation. I doubt if that stat has changed much in the years since. And life goes on as normal throughout the world.

If this doesn't say in loud capital letters that there is something badly wrong with humanity, then what will.

Yes we all have a responsibility to ourselves and the communities we live in to show due diligence to try and keep at bay or beat this deadly virus, but when we do that, I wonder will the world sit up and take notice of how fucked up it really had become!

Whilst not trying to minimise the obvious upheaval and suffering that will undoubtedly unfold in the coming weeks and months, I cant help think that if this was happening in an undeveloped country far enough away, it wouldn't even be worthy of discussion in 99.9% of peoples conversations.

Just saying!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 05:24:57 PM
Quote from: bannside on March 22, 2020, 05:18:35 PM
In 2015 the World Health Organisation reported that 9.1 million died in the previous twelve months of starvation. I doubt if that stat has changed much in the years since. And life goes on as normal throughout the world.

If this doesn't say in loud capital letters that there is something badly wrong with humanity, then what will.

Yes we all have a responsibility to ourselves and the communities we live in to show due diligence to try and keep at bay or beat this deadly virus, but when we do that, I wonder will the world sit up and take notice of how fucked up it really had become!

Whilst not trying to minimise the obvious upheaval and suffering that will undoubtedly unfold in the coming weeks and months, I cant help think that if this was happening in an undeveloped country far enough away, it wouldn't even be worthy of discussion in 99.9% of peoples conversations.

Just saying!

Capitalism/globalism has failed , it's time for change . What percentage of world wealth could end starvation in the world ? Someone told me yer man bill gates could actually end it alone , if true that's how evil capitalism is imo.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 22, 2020, 05:29:22 PM
Quote from: bannside on March 22, 2020, 05:18:35 PM
In 2015 the World Health Organisation reported that 9.1 million died in the previous twelve months of starvation. I doubt if that stat has changed much in the years since. And life goes on as normal throughout the world.

If this doesn't say in loud capital letters that there is something badly wrong with humanity, then what will.

Yes we all have a responsibility to ourselves and the communities we live in to show due diligence to try and keep at bay or beat this deadly virus, but when we do that, I wonder will the world sit up and take notice of how fucked up it really had become!

Whilst not trying to minimise the obvious upheaval and suffering that will undoubtedly unfold in the coming weeks and months, I cant help think that if this was happening in an undeveloped country far enough away, it wouldn't even be worthy of discussion in 99.9% of peoples conversations.

Just saying!

Whilst you're right, if 70% of the world catch this (as some are predicting) at even a 1% mortality rate (Italy is on 9% at the minute I believe), almost 50m will die. It's natural that people worry about a potentially deadly but invisible threat to them. However, hopefully it does bring about huge changes about what society values and leads to a more compassionate view of the world and a less money focused attitude among many. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 05:30:27 PM
Quote from: bannside on March 22, 2020, 05:18:35 PM
In 2015 the World Health Organisation reported that 9.1 million died in the previous twelve months of starvation. I doubt if that stat has changed much in the years since. And life goes on as normal throughout the world.

If this doesn't say in loud capital letters that there is something badly wrong with humanity, then what will.

Yes we all have a responsibility to ourselves and the communities we live in to show due diligence to try and keep at bay or beat this deadly virus, but when we do that, I wonder will the world sit up and take notice of how fucked up it really had become!

Whilst not trying to minimise the obvious upheaval and suffering that will undoubtedly unfold in the coming weeks and months, I cant help think that if this was happening in an undeveloped country far enough away, it wouldn't even be worthy of discussion in 99.9% of peoples conversations.

Just saying!

Brought that up already. No one cares about starvation unless it's on your doorstep, even homelessness isn't given a second thought as they are still homeless and growing by the day!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on March 22, 2020, 05:37:24 PM
Took a drive past Nutt's Corner market today. Whilst greatly reduced, still about 40/50 cars or so and 100/150 milling about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 05:47:07 PM
Quote from: ONeill on March 22, 2020, 05:37:24 PM
Took a drive past Nutt's Corner market today. Whilst greatly reduced, still about 40/50 cars or so and 100/150 milling about.

Aye heard it was on! Nutt jobs! But sure it's seems it's ok to go for a dander or meet up with people!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 22, 2020, 06:01:08 PM
Quote from: ONeill on March 22, 2020, 05:37:24 PM
Took a drive past Nutt's Corner market today. Whilst greatly reduced, still about 40/50 cars or so and 100/150 milling about.

I saw the message they had, basically saying, we're like a big shop so we're open.

Crazy stuff.

Before this, was anybody at it recently? Is it still all outdoors?

What sort of stuff do they sell nowadays?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 06:02:41 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 22, 2020, 06:01:08 PM
Quote from: ONeill on March 22, 2020, 05:37:24 PM
Took a drive past Nutt's Corner market today. Whilst greatly reduced, still about 40/50 cars or so and 100/150 milling about.

I saw the message they had, basically saying, we're like a big shop so we're open.

Crazy stuff.

Before this, was anybody at it recently? Is it still all outdoors?

What sort of stuff do they sell nowadays?

Haven't been in 30 years, they were selling dvds when I was there and burgers! And cheap shite clothes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 22, 2020, 06:08:09 PM
121 new cases in ROI today and a 4th death confirmed. 29 people in ICU.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 06:25:52 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 22, 2020, 06:06:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 06:02:41 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 22, 2020, 06:01:08 PM
Quote from: ONeill on March 22, 2020, 05:37:24 PM
Took a drive past Nutt's Corner market today. Whilst greatly reduced, still about 40/50 cars or so and 100/150 milling about.

I saw the message they had, basically saying, we're like a big shop so we're open.

Crazy stuff.

Before this, was anybody at it recently? Is it still all outdoors?

What sort of stuff do they sell nowadays?

Haven't been in 30 years, they were selling dvds when I was there and burgers! And cheap shite clothes
DVDs.....30 years..... :-\

Well 25 odd years or was it CD's
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: DickyRock on March 22, 2020, 06:51:12 PM
Just wondering what the teachers are doing in the south?

If there are at home who is looking after key worker's children?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 06:56:14 PM
Quote from: DickyRock on March 22, 2020, 06:51:12 PM
Just wondering what the teachers are doing in the south?

If there are at home who is looking after key worker's children?

Child minders? The other parent? Wife's school only has 8 coming in out of 1200
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on March 22, 2020, 07:23:44 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 22, 2020, 06:01:08 PM
Quote from: ONeill on March 22, 2020, 05:37:24 PM
Took a drive past Nutt's Corner market today. Whilst greatly reduced, still about 40/50 cars or so and 100/150 milling about.

I saw the message they had, basically saying, we're like a big shop so we're open.

Crazy stuff.

Before this, was anybody at it recently? Is it still all outdoors?

What sort of stuff do they sell nowadays?

Exactly the same. Only bigger. All manner of shite. I usually end up with a pile of bulbs, dinky donuts and Wille McCrea's greatest hits.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 22, 2020, 07:27:42 PM
If this doesn't wise people the f**k up I don't know:

https://www.facebook.com/BelfastTrust/videos/208441737094967/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 22, 2020, 07:45:36 PM
https://foldingathome.org
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 22, 2020, 07:49:16 PM
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/irishman-who-attended-cheltenham-festival-tests-positive-for-covid-19-39065160.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 07:53:11 PM
Anyone finding contradiction in the advice , stay at home but against lockdown. I have to go work tomorrow cause site won't close , brickes tried to force their hand last week but were told by their union get back to work immediately. 200 men on site , packed drying rooms and canteens , majority on site absolute apes with only a few of us trying to social distance . Management couldn't give a hoot , talk they gave us they were basically mocking the whole thing .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 22, 2020, 07:59:53 PM
They need inspectors going to employers. Most forms of construction could be fairly OK if it was run responsibly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on March 22, 2020, 08:01:24 PM
Quote from: ONeill on March 22, 2020, 07:23:44 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 22, 2020, 06:01:08 PM
Quote from: ONeill on March 22, 2020, 05:37:24 PM
Took a drive past Nutt's Corner market today. Whilst greatly reduced, still about 40/50 cars or so and 100/150 milling about.

I saw the message they had, basically saying, we're like a big shop so we're open.

Crazy stuff.

Before this, was anybody at it recently? Is it still all outdoors?

What sort of stuff do they sell nowadays?

Exactly the same. Only bigger. All manner of shite. I usually end up with a pile of bulbs, dinky donuts and Wille McCrea's greatest hits.

Is it not just one big loyalist fundraiser? I wouldn't go if I was paid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 22, 2020, 08:21:37 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 07:53:11 PM
Anyone finding contradiction in the advice , stay at home but against lockdown. I have to go work tomorrow cause site won't close , brickes tried to force their hand last week but were told by their union get back to work immediately. 200 men on site , packed drying rooms and canteens , majority on site absolute apes with only a few of us trying to social distance . Management couldn't give a hoot , talk they gave us they were basically mocking the whole thing .

I was told the CIF were lobbying the government to exempt construction workers as "necessary workers" when the lockdown comes in. I'm not sure how that will work while respecting social distancing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 08:27:18 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 22, 2020, 08:21:37 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 07:53:11 PM
Anyone finding contradiction in the advice , stay at home but against lockdown. I have to go work tomorrow cause site won't close , brickes tried to force their hand last week but were told by their union get back to work immediately. 200 men on site , packed drying rooms and canteens , majority on site absolute apes with only a few of us trying to social distance . Management couldn't give a hoot , talk they gave us they were basically mocking the whole thing .

I was told the CIF were lobbying the government to exempt construction workers as "necessary workers" when the lockdown comes in. I'm not sure how that will work while respecting social distancing.

How lovely of the CIF but does not surprise me at all , same cif turn a blind eye to bogus self employment, poor safety and welfare whilst they get yer man from rorys stories to tell you how in touch they are with mental health , it all annoys me so much cause it's all so fake .

Anyway look bricks come from occupied six or England and a lot of material from uk , delivery of concrete, machinery, tools , compressors etc etc , it's a massive chain to keep it going in a lockdown situation
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 22, 2020, 08:38:00 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 22, 2020, 02:02:08 PM
The vast majority of people will be ill but will get better and return to work, food production will not stop. Bullshit sensationalism needs nipped in the bud. The media will 'Grand old Duke of York' this situation and then go totally the opposite direction after a while.

You aren't getting it.

We can't let the "vast majority" of people even get it to recover - as the numbers that don't recover unaided and need to go to hospital will drown the healthcare system.

Its a major problem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 09:02:33 PM
It needs to be drip fed to the hospitals so they can handle it, it can come in large groups otherwise lots of people will be unattended in hospital and left to die. If we'd more capacity to deal with lots of people getting it then fine. We don't

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 09:05:23 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 22, 2020, 08:38:00 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 22, 2020, 02:02:08 PM
The vast majority of people will be ill but will get better and return to work, food production will not stop. Bullshit sensationalism needs nipped in the bud. The media will 'Grand old Duke of York' this situation and then go totally the opposite direction after a while.

You aren't getting it.

We can't let the "vast majority" of people even get it to recover - as the numbers that don't recover unaided and need to go to hospital will drown the healthcare system.

Its a major problem.

Totally agree
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 22, 2020, 09:27:47 PM
McDonald's closing their doors, this virus thing is getting real.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 22, 2020, 09:45:31 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 07:53:11 PM
Anyone finding contradiction in the advice , stay at home but against lockdown. I have to go work tomorrow cause site won't close , brickes tried to force their hand last week but were told by their union get back to work immediately. 200 men on site , packed drying rooms and canteens , majority on site absolute apes with only a few of us trying to social distance . Management couldn't give a hoot , talk they gave us they were basically mocking the whole thing .

Don't go to work. Stay at home. If your boss is laughing about it now, chances are he'll be dead in a month.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 09:51:39 PM
Any big decisions to be taken by Leo this week?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tintin25 on March 22, 2020, 09:58:19 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 22, 2020, 09:45:31 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 07:53:11 PM
Anyone finding contradiction in the advice , stay at home but against lockdown. I have to go work tomorrow cause site won't close , brickes tried to force their hand last week but were told by their union get back to work immediately. 200 men on site , packed drying rooms and canteens , majority on site absolute apes with only a few of us trying to social distance . Management couldn't give a hoot , talk they gave us they were basically mocking the whole thing .

Don't go to work. Stay at home. If your boss is laughing about it now, chances are he'll be dead in a month.

Work in an office and they had asked us previously whether we had wifi at home and a laptop etc.  One of the Directors spoke to us last Wednesday and encouraged everyone to WFH and they would provide laptops to those who needed one etc.  To be honest, at the time things weren't at the stage they were now and I said I was happy to work in the office but assumed I would still get a laptop and have the option to WFH as/when it felt appropriate.  Approached my direct manager a day or so later and asked when I would get my laptop but she said it was now reallocated to someone else!  Yes, I shot myself in the foot but thought she should have at least come to me again and asked if I wanted it before giving it to someone else.  Have managed to borrow one now and it works perfectly.  Still coming in 2morr but just wondering what my rights are if they start being difficult and say I have to remain in the office until they say so?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 22, 2020, 10:05:22 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51995137

28 year old (ground) footballer needed to go onto a ventilator.

Age & fitness are not necessarily a protection against this.

Health service gets swamped and any one of us could be f**ked.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: knockitdown on March 22, 2020, 10:08:59 PM
The latest whatsapp doing the rounds in the North:

"Army landing flat out at alder grove in preparation for lockdown next week. Army landing craft at beach at ballykinlar unloading stuff at camp. Army hospital tents set up on shooting range at camp. Dundonald ice rink and large refrigerated warehouse in newtownards to be used as morgues. Looks like its all happening now."

Who ever comes up with this should be locked up for fuelling fear!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 22, 2020, 10:14:47 PM
Quote from: knockitdown on March 22, 2020, 10:08:59 PM
The latest whatsapp doing the rounds in the North:

"Army landing flat out at alder grove in preparation for lockdown next week. Army landing craft at beach at ballykinlar unloading stuff at camp. Army hospital tents set up on shooting range at camp. Dundonald ice rink and large refrigerated warehouse in newtownards to be used as morgues. Looks like its all happening now."

Who ever comes up with this should be locked up for fuelling fear!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GM-e46xdcUo
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 22, 2020, 10:40:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 05:02:31 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 22, 2020, 04:49:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:40:15 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 03:34:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:30:18 PM
I seen they are really understanding the Virus situation in Bettytown, bunged

Bettystown video I seen was just cars , I'd be more interested in seeing the actual people on the beach

You think they are just sitting in the car? Why are these places open?

How do you close a beach? I went for a walk on the beach this morning. It was very obvious that social distancing is being observed by 90% of people. I saw one group of teenage looking girls not observing it  but maybe they were sisters from same household, I don't know.

Seen images of a beach, had place tape across it, signs up and police are enforcing it by arresting charging and fining people. Simple enough I'd say

Dunno where you live Miltown but from Donegal to Cork there are 100s of beaches, absolutely impossible to police like that. Nothing simple about it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 10:49:14 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 22, 2020, 10:40:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 05:02:31 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 22, 2020, 04:49:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:40:15 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 03:34:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:30:18 PM
I seen they are really understanding the Virus situation in Bettytown, bunged

Bettystown video I seen was just cars , I'd be more interested in seeing the actual people on the beach

You think they are just sitting in the car? Why are these places open?

How do you close a beach? I went for a walk on the beach this morning. It was very obvious that social distancing is being observed by 90% of people. I saw one group of teenage looking girls not observing it  but maybe they were sisters from same household, I don't know.

Seen images of a beach, had place tape across it, signs up and police are enforcing it by arresting charging and fining people. Simple enough I'd say

Dunno where you live Miltown but from Donegal to Cork there are 100s of beaches, absolutely impossible to police like that. Nothing simple about it.

Well if they are enforcing it in Italy which last time I looked is bigger that Donegal to Cork they seemed to have copped on how to do it, but sure keep them open. Newcastle Co Down flat out today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aaron Boone on March 22, 2020, 11:01:35 PM
A week of rain will keep people indoors. Recent sunshine hasn't helped the government's softly softly approach.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 22, 2020, 11:06:12 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 22, 2020, 10:53:20 PM
Look, closing beaches is like closing Cavehill or closing streets. When full lockdown comes, you won't be allowed there without good reason. That will be soon, I think. I mean, you can call for beaches to be closed but having Royal Ave or O'Connell St open at the same time, you're pissing into the wind.

Exactly. You need to close everything if you need to go to the next step.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 22, 2020, 11:23:13 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 09:05:23 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 22, 2020, 08:38:00 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 22, 2020, 02:02:08 PM
The vast majority of people will be ill but will get better and return to work, food production will not stop. Bullshit sensationalism needs nipped in the bud. The media will 'Grand old Duke of York' this situation and then go totally the opposite direction after a while.

You aren't getting it.

We can't let the "vast majority" of people even get it to recover - as the numbers that don't recover unaided and need to go to hospital will drown the healthcare system.

Its a major problem.

Totally agree
Yis can totally agree all you want but you're wrong. Food production is of primary importance everywhere, all links in the chain are key workers it can't be left to break down or there will be total anarchy - that aint happening on any Government's watch.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 22, 2020, 11:34:53 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 22, 2020, 10:40:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 05:02:31 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 22, 2020, 04:49:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:40:15 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 03:34:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 03:30:18 PM
I seen they are really understanding the Virus situation in Bettytown, bunged

Bettystown video I seen was just cars , I'd be more interested in seeing the actual people on the beach

You think they are just sitting in the car? Why are these places open?

How do you close a beach? I went for a walk on the beach this morning. It was very obvious that social distancing is being observed by 90% of people. I saw one group of teenage looking girls not observing it  but maybe they were sisters from same household, I don't know.

Seen images of a beach, had place tape across it, signs up and police are enforcing it by arresting charging and fining people. Simple enough I'd say

Dunno where you live Miltown but from Donegal to Cork there are 100s of beaches, absolutely impossible to police like that. Nothing simple about it.

The beaches that are impossible to police will likely not get crowded.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 22, 2020, 11:36:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 22, 2020, 09:45:31 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 22, 2020, 07:53:11 PM
Anyone finding contradiction in the advice , stay at home but against lockdown. I have to go work tomorrow cause site won't close , brickes tried to force their hand last week but were told by their union get back to work immediately. 200 men on site , packed drying rooms and canteens , majority on site absolute apes with only a few of us trying to social distance . Management couldn't give a hoot , talk they gave us they were basically mocking the whole thing .

Don't go to work. Stay at home. If your boss is laughing about it now, chances are he'll be dead in a month.

I work in manufacturing. 1k workers. Still open. Stressed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 11:49:26 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 22, 2020, 10:53:20 PM
Look, closing beaches is like closing Cavehill or closing streets. When full lockdown comes, you won't be allowed there without good reason. That will be soon, I think. I mean, you can call for beaches to be closed but having Royal Ave or O'Connell St open at the same time, you're pissing into the wind.

Ok so people put up charts showing where we are now in comparison to Italy and if Italy had a Chance to go back to that point they would have locked down earlier. Itchy is waffling that you can't close the beaches, you can enforce it with fines, yes some clampits will continue to do it but let them be fined!

But yes we need a lockdown, essential travel only in my view
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gold on March 23, 2020, 12:10:06 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 22, 2020, 11:06:12 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 22, 2020, 10:53:20 PM
Look, closing beaches is like closing Cavehill or closing streets. When full lockdown comes, you won't be allowed there without good reason. That will be soon, I think. I mean, you can call for beaches to be closed but having Royal Ave or O'Connell St open at the same time, you're pissing into the wind.

Exactly. You need to close everything if you need to go to the next step.

Exactly is right. Nutts corner is open air and far less of a problem than tesco etc...i accept though if not essential people shouldnt be near it

I walked Lady Dixon Park today and whilst there were people there, all seemed to be walking in their wee family groups and keeping distance from everyone else

Presume the people who went for walks to beaches and mountains believed they were doing the right thing going outdoors and staying away from enclosed places. Difficulty is when you land at said spot and the places are thick with people with the same idea...no one going to shops, eateries, sports or coffee shops anymore so all inevitably land at beaches and parks. I dont know if the virus is likely to pass in such a way...clearly if you all go to an ice cream van or touch railings etc it might...but if you drive to a park and walk around it and stay well out of peoples way would it?? I genuinely dont know
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gold on March 23, 2020, 12:18:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 11:49:26 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 22, 2020, 10:53:20 PM
Look, closing beaches is like closing Cavehill or closing streets. When full lockdown comes, you won't be allowed there without good reason. That will be soon, I think. I mean, you can call for beaches to be closed but having Royal Ave or O'Connell St open at the same time, you're pissing into the wind.

Ok so people put up charts showing where we are now in comparison to Italy and if Italy had a Chance to go back to that point they would have locked down earlier. Itchy is waffling that you can't close the beaches, you can enforce it with fines, yes some clampits will continue to do it but let them be fined!

But yes we need a lockdown, essential travel only in my view

I agree re the lockdown. If we all literally cant leave the house for 2 weeks it has to flatten the curve...but how do we eat?
We need medics to travel, cops on the streets to arrest people breaking the curfew or murdering their wife. Then do we need a Judge to decide whether or not to jail or bail them...lawyers to represent them so they have a fair hearing, Prison officers to keep them in jail. Those officers dont live in the jail so they have to drive in and out. As do the medics in jail who give the lags their medication. Those prison officers and  medics need deisal for their cars...so people need to work in filling stations. Lorry drivers need to bring the fuel to the filling stations....sometimes travelling by boat...people need to sail the boat and other workers on it. People need to work at the Ports.

Etc etc. Point being there is alot of essential travel. TOTAL Lockdown is nigh on impossible

It is frightening
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tiempo on March 23, 2020, 12:55:23 AM
Here bored of this already
Has any man got a number for Snake Plissken
Only man fit to sort this shite
ps throw ur coin into shares of the company enterprising the 3 seashells method, piece a piss
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 01:06:43 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 11:49:26 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 22, 2020, 10:53:20 PM
Look, closing beaches is like closing Cavehill or closing streets. When full lockdown comes, you won't be allowed there without good reason. That will be soon, I think. I mean, you can call for beaches to be closed but having Royal Ave or O'Connell St open at the same time, you're pissing into the wind.

Ok so people put up charts showing where we are now in comparison to Italy and if Italy had a Chance to go back to that point they would have locked down earlier. Itchy is waffling that you can't close the beaches, you can enforce it with fines, yes some clampits will continue to do it but let them be fined!

But yes we need a lockdown, essential travel only in my view

No, we do not need  a lockdown, we need the delinquent Stormont regime to start properly testing and tracing people. Lockdown those people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on March 23, 2020, 01:41:28 AM
We need a complete lockdown, north and south. Some of the things I am seeing are totally unbelievable. If you had an ice cream van at Cranfield you'd be a millionaire. It's the same all over the country. This is not a public holiday. This is LIFE AND DEATH. Take your kids home and ground them. Your life depends on it.

Close the country down and throw anyone in jail who thinks they are above the law, a few weeks in Maghaberry or Mountjoy will soon sort a lot of people out.

Business will recover, the dead won't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 23, 2020, 03:50:42 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 01:06:43 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 11:49:26 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 22, 2020, 10:53:20 PM
Look, closing beaches is like closing Cavehill or closing streets. When full lockdown comes, you won't be allowed there without good reason. That will be soon, I think. I mean, you can call for beaches to be closed but having Royal Ave or O'Connell St open at the same time, you're pissing into the wind.

Ok so people put up charts showing where we are now in comparison to Italy and if Italy had a Chance to go back to that point they would have locked down earlier. Itchy is waffling that you can't close the beaches, you can enforce it with fines, yes some clampits will continue to do it but let them be fined!

But yes we need a lockdown, essential travel only in my view

No, we do not need  a lockdown, we need the delinquent Stormont regime to start properly testing and tracing people. Lockdown those people.

We bloody well do need a lockdown. I've finally convinced my brother to stop driving his taxi. I just hope I wasn't too late.

He tells me that people in Lurgan are still going about their business as normal, which is horrifying. I hear about groups of youths knocking about in the park and the usual drinking dens. Shut them down. Get the helicopter up and and enforce it. Idiots.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 23, 2020, 03:51:35 AM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 22, 2020, 11:36:19 PM
On a related note - ladies & gentlemen, Alan Sugar...

(https://i.postimg.cc/Sx1BSTRf/oie-ntco-VLzv-ZQNO.png)

https://mobile.twitter.com/Lord_Sugar/status/1241770029982593026

Very good. No TV channel logo on the screen though, so most likely a wind-up. Not the worst idea though...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 23, 2020, 04:04:19 AM
Quote from: Gold on March 23, 2020, 12:18:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 11:49:26 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 22, 2020, 10:53:20 PM
Look, closing beaches is like closing Cavehill or closing streets. When full lockdown comes, you won't be allowed there without good reason. That will be soon, I think. I mean, you can call for beaches to be closed but having Royal Ave or O'Connell St open at the same time, you're pissing into the wind.

Ok so people put up charts showing where we are now in comparison to Italy and if Italy had a Chance to go back to that point they would have locked down earlier. Itchy is waffling that you can't close the beaches, you can enforce it with fines, yes some clampits will continue to do it but let them be fined!

But yes we need a lockdown, essential travel only in my view

I agree re the lockdown. If we all literally cant leave the house for 2 weeks it has to flatten the curve...but how do we eat?
We need medics to travel, cops on the streets to arrest people breaking the curfew or murdering their wife. Then do we need a Judge to decide whether or not to jail or bail them...lawyers to represent them so they have a fair hearing, Prison officers to keep them in jail. Those officers dont live in the jail so they have to drive in and out. As do the medics in jail who give the lags their medication. Those prison officers and  medics need deisal for their cars...so people need to work in filling stations. Lorry drivers need to bring the fuel to the filling stations....sometimes travelling by boat...people need to sail the boat and other workers on it. People need to work at the Ports.

Etc etc. Point being there is alot of essential travel. TOTAL Lockdown is nigh on impossible

It is frightening
No going out except for essential activities like getting medicines or groceries. Under our shelter-in-place order we're still allowed out to take a walk and exercise if we maintain distance from other people, but even that might be curtailed if we don't get the curve flattened.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on March 23, 2020, 04:39:35 AM
For the 'just a flu' merchants, if they still exist, this explains it in yet another way:

https://twitter.com/StanCollymore/status/1241804469387644933 (https://twitter.com/StanCollymore/status/1241804469387644933)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 07:15:34 AM
just listening to Michelle O Neill on Radoi Ulster saying if you are not an essential servive you should be shut down. FFS how weak is that!!! Do it then and help us workers who are being asked by employers to come in to work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 23, 2020, 08:15:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 11:49:26 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 22, 2020, 10:53:20 PM
Look, closing beaches is like closing Cavehill or closing streets. When full lockdown comes, you won't be allowed there without good reason. That will be soon, I think. I mean, you can call for beaches to be closed but having Royal Ave or O'Connell St open at the same time, you're pissing into the wind.

Ok so people put up charts showing where we are now in comparison to Italy and if Italy had a Chance to go back to that point they would have locked down earlier. Itchy is waffling that you can't close the beaches, you can enforce it with fines, yes some clampits will continue to do it but let them be fined!

But yes we need a lockdown, essential travel only in my view

If anyone has been shown to be a total waffler on here its you, just take a look at our pathetic posts early in this and ignoring of all info put in front of you and now you are looking for lockdown of beaches! You are the Donald Trump of the board.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: naka on March 23, 2020, 08:29:59 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 07:15:34 AM
just listening to Michelle O Neill on Radoi Ulster saying if you are not an essential servive you should be shut down. FFS how weak is that!!! Do it then and help us workers who are being asked by employers to come in to work.
Genuinely I think there will be a full lock down by Friday
Most employers like myself are awaiting the breakdown of what " furloughed workers" entails.
For myself I am going into work as need to ensure salaries paid this month.
Chatting to a bar owner  yesterday  on phone as he needed advice who had laid 10 off
He simply said he isn't re-opening after this so whilst a lot of employees rightly lambast employers, everyone is stressed to the hilt on this.
It's a shit show and genuinely it's getting worse
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 08:32:23 AM
Quote from: naka on March 23, 2020, 08:29:59 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 07:15:34 AM
just listening to Michelle O Neill on Radoi Ulster saying if you are not an essential servive you should be shut down. FFS how weak is that!!! Do it then and help us workers who are being asked by employers to come in to work.
Genuinely I think there will be a full lock down by Friday
Most employers like myself are awaiting the breakdown of what " furloughed workers" entails.
For myself I am going into work as need to ensure salaries paid this month.
Chatting to a bar owner  yesterday  on phone as he needed advice who had laid 10 off
He simply said he isn't re-opening after this so whilst a lot of employees rightly lambast employers, everyone is stressed to the hilt on this.
It's a shit show and genuinely it's getting worse

Yes I fully understand that. But I prefer to be poor than be dead
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 08:32:56 AM
Can anyone actually confirm that Joe Brolly was at Cheltenham? If he was, it wouldn't make anything he's saying about the state of things wrong but it would make him an absolute hypocrite.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 23, 2020, 08:55:04 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 23, 2020, 04:04:19 AM
Quote from: Gold on March 23, 2020, 12:18:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 11:49:26 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 22, 2020, 10:53:20 PM
Look, closing beaches is like closing Cavehill or closing streets. When full lockdown comes, you won't be allowed there without good reason. That will be soon, I think. I mean, you can call for beaches to be closed but having Royal Ave or O'Connell St open at the same time, you're pissing into the wind.

Ok so people put up charts showing where we are now in comparison to Italy and if Italy had a Chance to go back to that point they would have locked down earlier. Itchy is waffling that you can't close the beaches, you can enforce it with fines, yes some clampits will continue to do it but let them be fined!

But yes we need a lockdown, essential travel only in my view

I agree re the lockdown. If we all literally cant leave the house for 2 weeks it has to flatten the curve...but how do we eat?
We need medics to travel, cops on the streets to arrest people breaking the curfew or murdering their wife. Then do we need a Judge to decide whether or not to jail or bail them...lawyers to represent them so they have a fair hearing, Prison officers to keep them in jail. Those officers dont live in the jail so they have to drive in and out. As do the medics in jail who give the lags their medication. Those prison officers and  medics need deisal for their cars...so people need to work in filling stations. Lorry drivers need to bring the fuel to the filling stations....sometimes travelling by boat...people need to sail the boat and other workers on it. People need to work at the Ports.

Etc etc. Point being there is alot of essential travel. TOTAL Lockdown is nigh on impossible

It is frightening
No going out except for essential activities like getting medicines or groceries. Under our shelter-in-place order we're still allowed out to take a walk and exercise if we maintain distance from other people, but even that might be curtailed if we don't get the curve flattened.

I dont know what you mean by a lockdown. What about people who work in shops, people who work in meat plants, people who make respirators, people who make other medical devices, police, ambulances, nurses. There is no such thing as a true lockdown. Not even one in Italy or China.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: naka on March 23, 2020, 08:58:15 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 08:32:23 AM
Quote from: naka on March 23, 2020, 08:29:59 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 07:15:34 AM
just listening to Michelle O Neill on Radoi Ulster saying if you are not an essential servive you should be shut down. FFS how weak is that!!! Do it then and help us workers who are being asked by employers to come in to work.
Genuinely I think there will be a full lock down by Friday
Most employers like myself are awaiting the breakdown of what " furloughed workers" entails.
For myself I am going into work as need to ensure salaries paid this month.
Chatting to a bar owner  yesterday  on phone as he needed advice who had laid 10 off
He simply said he isn't re-opening after this so whilst a lot of employees rightly lambast employers, everyone is stressed to the hilt on this.
It's a shit show and genuinely it's getting worse

Yes I fully understand that. But I prefer to be poor than be dead
Then don't go in
Genuinely not being cheeky but simply self isolate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 09:02:19 AM
Quote from: naka on March 23, 2020, 08:58:15 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 08:32:23 AM
Quote from: naka on March 23, 2020, 08:29:59 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 07:15:34 AM
just listening to Michelle O Neill on Radoi Ulster saying if you are not an essential servive you should be shut down. FFS how weak is that!!! Do it then and help us workers who are being asked by employers to come in to work.
Genuinely I think there will be a full lock down by Friday
Most employers like myself are awaiting the breakdown of what " furloughed workers" entails.
For myself I am going into work as need to ensure salaries paid this month.
Chatting to a bar owner  yesterday  on phone as he needed advice who had laid 10 off
He simply said he isn't re-opening after this so whilst a lot of employees rightly lambast employers, everyone is stressed to the hilt on this.
It's a shit show and genuinely it's getting worse

Yes I fully understand that. But I prefer to be poor than be dead
Then don't go in
Genuinely not being cheeky but simply self isolate.

It is not cheeky, and a lot of men here considering that today, but it would be good to get some leadership from Stormont instead of weak sound bites from Arlene and Michelle.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2020, 09:07:19 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 22, 2020, 11:23:13 PM
Yis can totally agree all you want but you're wrong. Food production is of primary importance everywhere, all links in the chain are key workers it can't be left to break down or there will be total anarchy - that aint happening on any Government's watch.

If half those links in the chain get the virus then the number of people they spread it to will completely overwhelm the NHS/HSE and then your looking at Italian mortality rates.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 09:09:20 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2020, 08:55:04 AM
There is no such thing as a true lockdown. Not even one in Italy or China.

Of course not. People need to eat. Sick people need to be looked after. Rubbish needs to be collected.

People do not need to go for walks, go to the park, go to the beach etc. Today is day 10 of the lockdown here in Spain. I have left the (small) apartment on 3 occasions. Twice for shopping, once to bring out the rubbish. My pregnant wife hasn't left the house once. There is still a big gap between what's happening in Spain and Italy and the UK and Ireland. People have shown they don't have the sense to cop the f**k on themselves, so the only solution is for it to be different mandated and backed up with appropriate policing.

It's likely already too late to stop the NHS being overwhelmed given how much Boris has fucked things in the last fortnight but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 09:24:48 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 09:09:20 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2020, 08:55:04 AM
There is no such thing as a true lockdown. Not even one in Italy or China.

Of course not. People need to eat. Sick people need to be looked after. Rubbish needs to be collected.

People do not need to go for walks, go to the park, go to the beach etc. Today is day 10 of the lockdown here in Spain. I have left the (small) apartment on 3 occasions. Twice for shopping, once to bring out the rubbish. My pregnant wife hasn't left the house once. There is still a big gap between what's happening in Spain and Italy and the UK and Ireland. People have shown they don't have the sense to cop the f**k on themselves, so the only solution is for it to be different mandated and backed up with appropriate policing.

It's likely already too late to stop the NHS being overwhelmed given how much Boris has fucked things in the last fortnight but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

Winemark telling their workers they are frontline.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on March 23, 2020, 09:25:40 AM
This is some reality check for everyone.

We now see what roles are actually essential and which are a waste of time.

The 'free' market has again been shown to be a farce and totally unable to cope with a crisis like this.

Where are all the 'wealth creators' that we couldn't tax in case they left the country?

They're sitting with their hands out begging for the state to bail them out again.

If this doesn't result in a massive move leftwards in the thinking of the population I don't know what will.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on March 23, 2020, 09:38:26 AM
Cue MR2 telling me that I need to shut up as I can't do anything about it so no point talking about it.

Yet he's rattling about whether or not he's getting paid his sales commission by the government.  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on March 23, 2020, 09:40:18 AM
Also.

Cancel the f**king Olympics.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 09:40:59 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2020, 08:15:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2020, 11:49:26 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 22, 2020, 10:53:20 PM
Look, closing beaches is like closing Cavehill or closing streets. When full lockdown comes, you won't be allowed there without good reason. That will be soon, I think. I mean, you can call for beaches to be closed but having Royal Ave or O'Connell St open at the same time, you're pissing into the wind.

Ok so people put up charts showing where we are now in comparison to Italy and if Italy had a Chance to go back to that point they would have locked down earlier. Itchy is waffling that you can't close the beaches, you can enforce it with fines, yes some clampits will continue to do it but let them be fined!

But yes we need a lockdown, essential travel only in my view

If anyone has been shown to be a total waffler on here its you, just take a look at our pathetic posts early in this and ignoring of all info put in front of you and now you are looking for lockdown of beaches! You are the Donald Trump of the board.

Keep your pants on lad... At no point did I say this wasn't serious. I questioned things as I'm not an expert on these things but you seem happy enough that the place isn't on lockdown. Maybe it's you that's getting on like Trump
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 09:47:48 AM
Quote from: Franko on March 23, 2020, 09:38:26 AM
Cue MR2 telling me that I need to shut up as I can't do anything about it so no point talking about it.

Yet he's rattling about whether or not he's getting paid his sales commission by the government.  ::)

I'm not worried at all, in fairness my wages will be the least of my worries, as long as my family is safe. Again that was a question that came up in work, I thought maybe someone with some insight into these things would know.

My job is purely servicing our patients now. has been for a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 09:50:08 AM
Quote from: Franko on March 23, 2020, 09:40:18 AM
Also.

Cancel the f**king Olympics.

I see Canada officially withdrew from the games overnight

The pretence that there is a chance of anything other than total cancellation is laughable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 09:55:39 AM
This is not a sprint, it is a marathon. Sure you can "lockdown' for a couple of weeks, but then you have to reactivate production and people still have to cop themselves on. The WHO have pointed out that you can't close the world, that you need to track the disease and isolate people who have and everyone they met recently.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 10:03:10 AM
The lockdown can be pretty much instantaneous. The emergence from that lockdown will obviously have to be slow and staggered. No doubt the Irish attitude to that in Day 1 however will be "sweet, I'm going down the pub for a rake of pints".

In case people don't get it, here are some things you can't do during lockdown at it is in Spain and Italy:

Go for a walk
Take the kids out for fresh air
Visit family
Visit friends
Go to the park
Go shopping as a family
Go for a jog round the block
Take the dog out as an excuse to go for a walk

All these self righteous c***ts on Twitter banging on about how they're "social distancing" don't have a f**king clue what's about to hit them. "Oh I went for a walk up Cavehill with the dog, but it's ok, I made sure I stayed 2m away from everybody"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 10:18:11 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 09:55:39 AM
This is not a sprint, it is a marathon. Sure you can "lockdown' for a couple of weeks, but then you have to reactivate production and people still have to cop themselves on. The WHO have pointed out that you can't close the world, that you need to track the disease and isolate people who have and everyone they met recently.

The Lockdown needs to be done to reduce the needs for the ICU teams, then relax it a bit then put it back on when the numbers increase, that needs repeated till they get a vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2020, 10:27:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 10:18:11 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 09:55:39 AM
This is not a sprint, it is a marathon. Sure you can "lockdown' for a couple of weeks, but then you have to reactivate production and people still have to cop themselves on. The WHO have pointed out that you can't close the world, that you need to track the disease and isolate people who have and everyone they met recently.

The Lockdown needs to be done to reduce the needs for the ICU teams, then relax it a bit then put it back on when the numbers increase, that needs repeated till they get a vaccine.

Yep - thats more or less what will have to happen.


Too many stupid people either unwilling to listen or unable to comprehend what they are told.


Another example of why democracy is a load of shit - the dumb f**kers vote counts every bit as much.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 10:41:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 10:18:11 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 09:55:39 AM
This is not a sprint, it is a marathon. Sure you can "lockdown' for a couple of weeks, but then you have to reactivate production and people still have to cop themselves on. The WHO have pointed out that you can't close the world, that you need to track the disease and isolate people who have and everyone they met recently.

The Lockdown needs to be done to reduce the needs for the ICU teams, then relax it a bit then put it back on when the numbers increase, that needs repeated till they get a vaccine.

Fine. But you have to test and trace while doing all this and the wasters in Stormont are threatening us all by their refusal to do this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on March 23, 2020, 10:58:39 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 10:03:10 AM
The lockdown can be pretty much instantaneous. The emergence from that lockdown will obviously have to be slow and staggered. No doubt the Irish attitude to that in Day 1 however will be "sweet, I'm going down the pub for a rake of pints".

In case people don't get it, here are some things you can't do during lockdown at it is in Spain and Italy:

Go for a walk
Take the kids out for fresh air
Visit family
Visit friends
Go to the park
Go shopping as a family
Go for a jog round the block
Take the dog out as an excuse to go for a walk

All these self righteous c***ts on Twitter banging on about how they're "social distancing" don't have a f**king clue what's about to hit them. "Oh I went for a walk up Cavehill with the dog, but it's ok, I made sure I stayed 2m away from everybody"

With regards this - i can see your point, but I also think it's somewhat confusing the information supplied. We are getting the stay 2 metres apart thing, so where is that applicable to?  I'm sure a lot of people are just out to clear the head for a walk and still trying to be adhering to distancing etc. Of course there will always be eejits who can't be told and will go ahead as normal.

If there was a total lockdown like you mentioned above in Spain and Italy, how does it work for getting food or shopping supplies - is it somehow monitored per household, or time?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wee Roddy on March 23, 2020, 11:03:37 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 10:41:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 10:18:11 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 09:55:39 AM
This is not a sprint, it is a marathon. Sure you can "lockdown' for a couple of weeks, but then you have to reactivate production and people still have to cop themselves on. The WHO have pointed out that you can't close the world, that you need to track the disease and isolate people who have and everyone they met recently.

The Lockdown needs to be done to reduce the needs for the ICU teams, then relax it a bit then put it back on when the numbers increase, that needs repeated till they get a vaccine.


Fine. But you have to test and trace while doing all this and the wasters in Stormont are threatening us all by their refusal to do this.

My understanding of it is that Michelle O'Neill is calling for this so I am assuming the directive has to come from Boris as Arlene is against it.
Maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 11:12:29 AM
Quote from: Wee Roddy on March 23, 2020, 11:03:37 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 10:41:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 10:18:11 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 09:55:39 AM
This is not a sprint, it is a marathon. Sure you can "lockdown' for a couple of weeks, but then you have to reactivate production and people still have to cop themselves on. The WHO have pointed out that you can't close the world, that you need to track the disease and isolate people who have and everyone they met recently.

The Lockdown needs to be done to reduce the needs for the ICU teams, then relax it a bit then put it back on when the numbers increase, that needs repeated till they get a vaccine.


Fine. But you have to test and trace while doing all this and the wasters in Stormont are threatening us all by their refusal to do this.

My understanding of it is that Michelle O'Neill is calling for this so I am assuming the directive has to come from Boris as Arlene is against it.
Maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong.

So what is the point of having an Executive office if all MON can do is say stuff to no effect?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 11:14:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 11:12:29 AM
Quote from: Wee Roddy on March 23, 2020, 11:03:37 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 10:41:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 10:18:11 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 09:55:39 AM
This is not a sprint, it is a marathon. Sure you can "lockdown' for a couple of weeks, but then you have to reactivate production and people still have to cop themselves on. The WHO have pointed out that you can't close the world, that you need to track the disease and isolate people who have and everyone they met recently.

The Lockdown needs to be done to reduce the needs for the ICU teams, then relax it a bit then put it back on when the numbers increase, that needs repeated till they get a vaccine.


Fine. But you have to test and trace while doing all this and the wasters in Stormont are threatening us all by their refusal to do this.

My understanding of it is that Michelle O'Neill is calling for this so I am assuming the directive has to come from Boris as Arlene is against it.
Maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong.

So what is the point of having an Executive office if all MON can do is say stuff to no effect?

Let them geg the Alliance wasters to support a motion in the Assembly to do this, and  pressure the DUP.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 11:14:43 AM
Quote from: JohnDenver on March 23, 2020, 10:58:39 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 10:03:10 AM
The lockdown can be pretty much instantaneous. The emergence from that lockdown will obviously have to be slow and staggered. No doubt the Irish attitude to that in Day 1 however will be "sweet, I'm going down the pub for a rake of pints".

In case people don't get it, here are some things you can't do during lockdown at it is in Spain and Italy:

Go for a walk
Take the kids out for fresh air
Visit family
Visit friends
Go to the park
Go shopping as a family
Go for a jog round the block
Take the dog out as an excuse to go for a walk

All these self righteous c***ts on Twitter banging on about how they're "social distancing" don't have a f**king clue what's about to hit them. "Oh I went for a walk up Cavehill with the dog, but it's ok, I made sure I stayed 2m away from everybody"

With regards this - i can see your point, but I also think it's somewhat confusing the information supplied. We are getting the stay 2 metres apart thing, so where is that applicable to?  I'm sure a lot of people are just out to clear the head for a walk and still trying to be adhering to distancing etc. Of course there will always be eejits who can't be told and will go ahead as normal.

If there was a total lockdown like you mentioned above in Spain and Italy, how does it work for getting food or shopping supplies - is it somehow monitored per household, or time?

Oh I absolutely agree you, people don't know what to be doing because Boris, Arlene and Michelle have absolutely fucked the messaging. But there are also plenty of otherwise intelligent people who think taking the dog for a walk is fine as long as you don't bump into or engage with other people and don't consider any other exposure they leave themselves or others open to. None of these people have a clue what's going to happen if an actual lockdown is in place.

Here in Spain, one person is allowed to go out at a time, for one of six or seven key reasons, most prominent of which is to purchase food or medical supplies or attend a critical medical appointment. As an example of what that means, my wife is due to have a 16 week checkup with the midwife next week. That's been cancelled. As we're also in the private system, she was due for a 16 week scan. Cancelled.

From today, anyone out and about is supposed to print and carry a certificate explaining who they are, where they live, where they're going and why. Police never the power to fine you on the spot. For serious breaches, you can get fines of tens of thousands and a year in prison.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 11:18:34 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 11:14:43 AM
Quote from: JohnDenver on March 23, 2020, 10:58:39 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 10:03:10 AM
The lockdown can be pretty much instantaneous. The emergence from that lockdown will obviously have to be slow and staggered. No doubt the Irish attitude to that in Day 1 however will be "sweet, I'm going down the pub for a rake of pints".

In case people don't get it, here are some things you can't do during lockdown at it is in Spain and Italy:

Go for a walk
Take the kids out for fresh air
Visit family
Visit friends
Go to the park
Go shopping as a family
Go for a jog round the block
Take the dog out as an excuse to go for a walk

All these self righteous c***ts on Twitter banging on about how they're "social distancing" don't have a f**king clue what's about to hit them. "Oh I went for a walk up Cavehill with the dog, but it's ok, I made sure I stayed 2m away from everybody"

With regards this - i can see your point, but I also think it's somewhat confusing the information supplied. We are getting the stay 2 metres apart thing, so where is that applicable to?  I'm sure a lot of people are just out to clear the head for a walk and still trying to be adhering to distancing etc. Of course there will always be eejits who can't be told and will go ahead as normal.

If there was a total lockdown like you mentioned above in Spain and Italy, how does it work for getting food or shopping supplies - is it somehow monitored per household, or time?

Oh I absolutely agree you, people don't know what to be doing because Boris, Arlene and Michelle have absolutely fucked the messaging. But there are also plenty of otherwise intelligent people who think taking the dog for a walk is fine as long as you don't bump into or engage with other people and don't consider any other exposure they leave themselves or others open to. None of these people have a clue what's going to happen if an actual lockdown is in place.

Here in Spain, one person is allowed to go out at a time, for one of six or seven key reasons, most prominent of which is to purchase food or medical supplies or attend a critical medical appointment. As an example of what that means, my wife is due to have a 16 week checkup with the midwife next week. That's been cancelled. As we're also in the private system, she was due for a 16 week scan. Cancelled.

From today, anyone out and about is supposed to print and carry a certificate explaining who they are, where they live, where they're going and why. Police never the power to fine you on the spot. For serious breaches, you can get fines of tens of thousands and a year in prison.

This is the level we need.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 11:23:47 AM
My sis lives in New Zealand. They've just had they're first two cases of "non-imported" Covid-19. Country immediately in lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wee Roddy on March 23, 2020, 11:26:10 AM
So just to clarify in Spain there is no work? This is what I thought but my line manager has told me otherwise and that a lockdown does not involve manufacturing and the like closing down. It is so unclear and frustrating as I for one would rather have my health and my families health than come in to earn a quid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2020, 11:27:00 AM
Quote from: Wee Roddy on March 23, 2020, 11:03:37 AM
My understanding of it is that Michelle O'Neill is calling for this so I am assuming the directive has to come from Boris as Arlene is against it.
Maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong.

Then O'Neill should come straight out and say "Im for increased testing and tracing, but Arlene is against it. Therefore we cannot proceed."

That'll pile the pressure on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 11:30:03 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 11:14:43 AM

Oh I absolutely agree you, people don't know what to be doing because Boris, Arlene and Michelle have absolutely fucked the messaging. But there are also plenty of otherwise intelligent people who think taking the dog for a walk is fine as long as you don't bump into or engage with other people and don't consider any other exposure they leave themselves or others open to. None of these people have a clue what's going to happen if an actual lockdown is in place.


You are allowed to walk a dog in Spain within 200 metres of your residence.
By and large walking should be encouraged, it is people gathering in one place that is the problem.

Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 11:23:47 AM
My sis lives in New Zealand. They've just had they're first two cases of "non-imported" Covid-19. Country immediately in lockdown.

Fortunately, Boris does not run the northern part of their country so they have every chance of bringing the pox under control.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on March 23, 2020, 11:30:52 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 11:18:34 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 11:14:43 AM
Quote from: JohnDenver on March 23, 2020, 10:58:39 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 10:03:10 AM
The lockdown can be pretty much instantaneous. The emergence from that lockdown will obviously have to be slow and staggered. No doubt the Irish attitude to that in Day 1 however will be "sweet, I'm going down the pub for a rake of pints".

In case people don't get it, here are some things you can't do during lockdown at it is in Spain and Italy:

Go for a walk
Take the kids out for fresh air
Visit family
Visit friends
Go to the park
Go shopping as a family
Go for a jog round the block
Take the dog out as an excuse to go for a walk

All these self righteous c***ts on Twitter banging on about how they're "social distancing" don't have a f**king clue what's about to hit them. "Oh I went for a walk up Cavehill with the dog, but it's ok, I made sure I stayed 2m away from everybody"

With regards this - i can see your point, but I also think it's somewhat confusing the information supplied. We are getting the stay 2 metres apart thing, so where is that applicable to?  I'm sure a lot of people are just out to clear the head for a walk and still trying to be adhering to distancing etc. Of course there will always be eejits who can't be told and will go ahead as normal.

If there was a total lockdown like you mentioned above in Spain and Italy, how does it work for getting food or shopping supplies - is it somehow monitored per household, or time?

Oh I absolutely agree you, people don't know what to be doing because Boris, Arlene and Michelle have absolutely fucked the messaging. But there are also plenty of otherwise intelligent people who think taking the dog for a walk is fine as long as you don't bump into or engage with other people and don't consider any other exposure they leave themselves or others open to. None of these people have a clue what's going to happen if an actual lockdown is in place.

Here in Spain, one person is allowed to go out at a time, for one of six or seven key reasons, most prominent of which is to purchase food or medical supplies or attend a critical medical appointment. As an example of what that means, my wife is due to have a 16 week checkup with the midwife next week. That's been cancelled. As we're also in the private system, she was due for a 16 week scan. Cancelled.

From today, anyone out and about is supposed to print and carry a certificate explaining who they are, where they live, where they're going and why. Police never the power to fine you on the spot. For serious breaches, you can get fines of tens of thousands and a year in prison.

This is the level we need.

The least we need is clear instructions of do's and don't's. If it's in black and white then people can't argue, and be reprimanded if needs be for not adhering to it.

With regards the testing and tracing, from what i gather MON and SF are pushing for this, as is being advised by WHO - but the tory-lites in Foster, Weir and Swann are blindy loyal to the crown and we will undoubtedly pay for this shit show.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 11:33:35 AM
Quote from: JohnDenver on March 23, 2020, 11:30:52 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 11:18:34 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 11:14:43 AM
Quote from: JohnDenver on March 23, 2020, 10:58:39 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 10:03:10 AM
The lockdown can be pretty much instantaneous. The emergence from that lockdown will obviously have to be slow and staggered. No doubt the Irish attitude to that in Day 1 however will be "sweet, I'm going down the pub for a rake of pints".

In case people don't get it, here are some things you can't do during lockdown at it is in Spain and Italy:

Go for a walk
Take the kids out for fresh air
Visit family
Visit friends
Go to the park
Go shopping as a family
Go for a jog round the block
Take the dog out as an excuse to go for a walk

All these self righteous c***ts on Twitter banging on about how they're "social distancing" don't have a f**king clue what's about to hit them. "Oh I went for a walk up Cavehill with the dog, but it's ok, I made sure I stayed 2m away from everybody"

With regards this - i can see your point, but I also think it's somewhat confusing the information supplied. We are getting the stay 2 metres apart thing, so where is that applicable to?  I'm sure a lot of people are just out to clear the head for a walk and still trying to be adhering to distancing etc. Of course there will always be eejits who can't be told and will go ahead as normal.

If there was a total lockdown like you mentioned above in Spain and Italy, how does it work for getting food or shopping supplies - is it somehow monitored per household, or time?

Oh I absolutely agree you, people don't know what to be doing because Boris, Arlene and Michelle have absolutely fucked the messaging. But there are also plenty of otherwise intelligent people who think taking the dog for a walk is fine as long as you don't bump into or engage with other people and don't consider any other exposure they leave themselves or others open to. None of these people have a clue what's going to happen if an actual lockdown is in place.

Here in Spain, one person is allowed to go out at a time, for one of six or seven key reasons, most prominent of which is to purchase food or medical supplies or attend a critical medical appointment. As an example of what that means, my wife is due to have a 16 week checkup with the midwife next week. That's been cancelled. As we're also in the private system, she was due for a 16 week scan. Cancelled.

From today, anyone out and about is supposed to print and carry a certificate explaining who they are, where they live, where they're going and why. Police never the power to fine you on the spot. For serious breaches, you can get fines of tens of thousands and a year in prison.

This is the level we need.

The least we need is clear instructions of do's and don't's. If it's in black and white then people can't argue, and be reprimanded if needs be for not adhering to it.

With regards the testing and tracing, from what i gather MON and SF are pushing for this, as is being advised by WHO - but the tory-lites in Foster, Weir and Swann are blindy loyal to the crown and we will undoubtedly pay for this shit show.

Stormont does not work

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 23, 2020, 11:37:36 AM
I think controlling a lockdown in 26 is more of an issue than people think , there are people who would see a lockdown as great opportunity to engage in all kinds of criminality, do we even have the personnel to control the scum of society , Marx terminology the " Lumpenproletariat" of society .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 23, 2020, 11:59:40 AM
Some fkn scumbags knifing each other in Ballinasloe and taking up valuable Hospital time.
As for Stormont as someone above said it just doesn't work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 12:02:43 PM
Quote from: Wee Roddy on March 23, 2020, 11:26:10 AM
So just to clarify in Spain there is no work? This is what I thought but my line manager has told me otherwise and that a lockdown does not involve manufacturing and the like closing down. It is so unclear and frustrating as I for one would rather have my health and my families health than come in to earn a quid

Anyone who can work from home has to work from home, government order that companies are obliged to follow.

Italy has now taken the next step and is shutting all non essential businesses.

Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 11:30:03 AM
You are allowed to walk a dog in Spain within 200 metres of your residence.
By and large walking should be encouraged, it is people gathering in one place that is the problem.

Walking should not be encouraged at all. It is not necessary. People can pace their house or garden, do exercises via YouTube etc. If it's not necessary, it shouldn't be done. It just increases risk.

Walking the dog and allowing them to their business is fine. The problem is people use the dog as an excuse to get out themselves. Also, people in Belfast still think taking a drive to get to Cavehill to take the dog walking is fine. It's not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 12:05:02 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 12:02:43 PM
Walking the dog and allowing them to their business is fine. The problem is people use the dog as an excuse to get out themselves. Also, people in Belfast still think taking a drive to get to Cavehill to take the dog walking is fine. It's not.

Driving your car to somewhere where are few people is perfectly responsible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 12:07:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 12:05:02 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 12:02:43 PM
Walking the dog and allowing them to their business is fine. The problem is people use the dog as an excuse to get out themselves. Also, people in Belfast still think taking a drive to get to Cavehill to take the dog walking is fine. It's not.

Driving your car to somewhere where are few people is perfectly responsible.

No it's not, because you know what? Other people like to do that too. All you are doing is heightening the risk, no matter how small you think.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 23, 2020, 12:13:15 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 12:07:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 12:05:02 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 12:02:43 PM
Walking the dog and allowing them to their business is fine. The problem is people use the dog as an excuse to get out themselves. Also, people in Belfast still think taking a drive to get to Cavehill to take the dog walking is fine. It's not.

Driving your car to somewhere where are few people is perfectly responsible.

No it's not, because you know what? Other people like to do that too. All you are doing is heightening the risk, no matter how small you think.

Entering a supermarket is a far bigger risk than any walk. Asda in Omagh on Friday night was a disgrace, groups of oul fellas with no pub to go to loitering and chatting in the narrow off-licence aisle and nobody there to hunt them on, nor a sign nor precaution to be seen anywhere.  If this is the best that one of the world's biggest retailers can do, there's no point in blaming people for getting out for some fresh air.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 12:16:48 PM
Quote from: five points on March 23, 2020, 12:13:15 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 12:07:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 12:05:02 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 12:02:43 PM
Walking the dog and allowing them to their business is fine. The problem is people use the dog as an excuse to get out themselves. Also, people in Belfast still think taking a drive to get to Cavehill to take the dog walking is fine. It's not.

Driving your car to somewhere where are few people is perfectly responsible.

No it's not, because you know what? Other people like to do that too. All you are doing is heightening the risk, no matter how small you think.

Entering a supermarket is a far bigger risk than any walk.

Yes, but you need to eat to survive and in order to do so, need to purchase food. Not everyone can do this fisting Amazon Pantry or similar. You don't need to go somewhere to go a walk.

Again, here in Spain shops are now limiting the number of people who can enter at any one time, there are gloves and hand sanitizer on entry, those queuing to pay or to get into the shop are standing several metres apart and, if not, are let know about it pretty sharpish. I imagine it's similar in Italy and France.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on March 23, 2020, 12:22:45 PM
NI outside of 3 conurbations is largely rural so how do you impose a lockdown? Is it just towns and cities? What about farmers? The border?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on March 23, 2020, 12:23:24 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2020, 11:27:00 AM
Quote from: Wee Roddy on March 23, 2020, 11:03:37 AM
My understanding of it is that Michelle O'Neill is calling for this so I am assuming the directive has to come from Boris as Arlene is against it.
Maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong.

Then O'Neill should come straight out and say "Im for increased testing and tracing, but Arlene is against it. Therefore we cannot proceed."

That'll pile the pressure on.

If she does that we'll  have all the Green vs Orange comments about it only being a matter of time before all these useless people in stomount reverted to type.

Personally, I think we (by we I mean UK and Ireland) should following WHO advice to the letter. Testing and isolation at mass levels. I honestly believe we are not doing this due to a combination of shortages of tests, ability to process the tests and a reluctance to spend the money.
I heard a comment this morning on the radio saying that we can't lock down like China as we are not a communist state. There's probably something in that.

Boris is useless. I fear that the advice he's getting is from his own cronies (Cummings, medical advisor etc) and I fear that he's so mentally bound to the approach of trivialising issues and spouting stiff upper lip rhetoric that he can't make any objective serious decision.
Here in NI, we probably have to follow suit of UK as finances for what we can do will be dictated by the UK approach. If we want to go a different way, we probably have to fund that ourselves and given our legal standing I'm not sure how we can source the finance required to do that.

This is unprecedented times and even if we had competent, strong leaders mistakes would be made.
Given the state of the leaders we have, even more mistakes will be made and should be expected from everyone.

I'm honestly scared stiff by the whole situation. I've a squad of young kids, a school teacher wife a neurological condition, a father with stage 4 cancer and ongoing lung problems and a mother with mobility issues.
I'm actually having trouble getting some basics like nappies and bog roll. I'm not stockpiling....but starting to feel like I need to due to the behaviour of others and a fear that I might not be able to get out to get supplies to feed my family.

Then people on here are sniping at other for having different opinions on what should and should not happen.

Get some perspective people and realise that everyone is looking at this from a different angle. Everyone I know is seriously concerned about this. Everyone has a view on what should be done....they can't all be right. Perhaps my view is wrong. None of us "know" what the right thing to do is.
Perhaps instead of sniping, we should be offering each other help.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 23, 2020, 12:24:14 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 12:16:48 PM
Quote from: five points on March 23, 2020, 12:13:15 PM

Entering a supermarket is a far bigger risk than any walk.

Yes, but you need to eat to survive and in order to do so, need to purchase food. Not everyone can do this fisting Amazon Pantry or similar. You don't need to go somewhere to go a walk.


You don't have to hang around the offlicence area of a supermarket with your drinking buddies in order to survive.

Smaller shops and filling stations are observing protocols to minimise Covid 19 risk. Asda aren't bothering. They need to be made bother.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 12:26:42 PM
Quote from: five points on March 23, 2020, 12:24:14 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 12:16:48 PM
Quote from: five points on March 23, 2020, 12:13:15 PM

Entering a supermarket is a far bigger risk than any walk.

Yes, but you need to eat to survive and in order to do so, need to purchase food. Not everyone can do this fisting Amazon Pantry or similar. You don't need to go somewhere to go a walk.


You don't have to hang around the offlicence area of a supermarket with your drinking buddies in order to survive.

Smaller shops and filling stations are observing protocols to minimise Covid 19 risk. Asda aren't bothering. They need to be made bother.

Of course you don't, and twats like that should be called out but that doesn't change the face that people need to go to grocery shopping. They don't need to leave the home to go for a walk.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 12:32:38 PM
Few things I've noticed in Belfast today, the bar next door has had all their drink removed and the joiners were measuring up the windows to board them up!

All the shops have employed one out one in policy, brilliant. And they have all the stuff you need, though only allowed two items per item. Great.

The town is dead. Hopefully people catch on, but I've still patients looking to come in! These people are in their 70's or older! We've a policy where they come in and wash hands and put gloves on, we also have gloves and a mask! Or preferably they hand it their aids and I service them.

It's feels ok strangely, but I've had people call to have tests! And angry because I've said no!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 23, 2020, 12:43:08 PM
Quote from: five points on March 23, 2020, 12:13:15 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 12:07:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 12:05:02 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 12:02:43 PM
Walking the dog and allowing them to their business is fine. The problem is people use the dog as an excuse to get out themselves. Also, people in Belfast still think taking a drive to get to Cavehill to take the dog walking is fine. It's not.

Driving your car to somewhere where are few people is perfectly responsible.

No it's not, because you know what? Other people like to do that too. All you are doing is heightening the risk, no matter how small you think.

Entering a supermarket is a far bigger risk than any walk. Asda in Omagh on Friday night was a disgrace, groups of oul fellas with no pub to go to loitering and chatting in the narrow off-licence aisle and nobody there to hunt them on, nor a sign nor precaution to be seen anywhere.  If this is the best that one of the world's biggest retailers can do, there's no point in blaming people for getting out for some fresh air.

Yeah could encounter a idiot like this. https://mobile.twitter.com/ezralevant/status/1241800198684168192
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mourne Red on March 23, 2020, 12:44:24 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 12:07:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 12:05:02 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 12:02:43 PM
Walking the dog and allowing them to their business is fine. The problem is people use the dog as an excuse to get out themselves. Also, people in Belfast still think taking a drive to get to Cavehill to take the dog walking is fine. It's not.

Driving your car to somewhere where are few people is perfectly responsible.

No it's not, because you know what? Other people like to do that too. All you are doing is heightening the risk, no matter how small you think.

Went to go to beach to walk the dog yesterday where we would train with the club and you wouldn't see a soul normally, decided to turn back home as had never seen the beach as busy in my life - Cars parked everywhere, just walking the dog in fields near the house now.. Think it's time for BoJo to Lockdown up here.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 23, 2020, 12:54:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 12:32:38 PM
Few things I've noticed in Belfast today, the bar next door has had all their drink removed and the joiners were measuring up the windows to board them up!

All the shops have employed one out one in policy, brilliant. And they have all the stuff you need, though only allowed two items per item. Great.

The town is dead. Hopefully people catch on, but I've still patients looking to come in!These people are in their 70's or older! We've a policy where they come in and wash hands and put gloves on, we also have gloves and a mask! Or preferably they hand it their aids and I service them.

It's feels ok strangely, but I've had people call to have tests! And angry because I've said no!

Sounds like Belfast in the 80s but the Europa Hotel's windows are probably safe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 23, 2020, 01:06:36 PM
Some people seem to live in a bubble of some sort or other. Maybe because they can't relate to all the deaths in Italy and China, I don't know but we'll soon be in a shit storm in a week or two's time and then it's too late if not already!

Local Centra yesterday there's signs everywhere about spacing and the likes and there in front of me is a dad and his two kids shopping as normal.

Leave the kids in the car, moron.

I'm mates with the owner and he was floating about in a stressed manner and I told him to ban all kids under 17 from the shop as the odds of them coming in for essential items are pretty low as most people have to drive to the shop in question.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 01:12:22 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 23, 2020, 01:06:36 PM
Some people seem to live in a bubble of some sort or other. Maybe because they can't relate to all the deaths in Italy and China, I don't know but we'll soon be in a shit storm in a week or two's time and then it's too late if not already!

Local Centra yesterday there's signs everywhere about spacing and the likes and there in front of me is a dad and his two kids shopping as normal.

Leave the kids in the car, moron.

I'm mates with the owner and he was floating about in a stressed manner and I told him to ban all kids under 17 from the shop as the odds of them coming in for essential items are pretty low as most people have to drive to the shop in question.

Centra in town is closed, was open first thing today
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 23, 2020, 01:12:46 PM
The crux of the issue here is social distancing will only work if everyone is abiding by the guidelines which they are not , I still don't understand why we can't lockdown partly , let's go with under 20s first off , under house arrest sin e. Gawd love the poor creatures , food , drink , tv, internet etc , my heart fook in bleeds .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 01:14:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 12:32:38 PM
It's feels ok strangely, but I've had people call to have tests! And angry because I've said no!

You were deaf to their pleas.

Some people need a cop on test and if they fail that they should not be allowed out, never mind becoming Stormont ministers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 23, 2020, 01:25:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2020, 09:07:19 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 22, 2020, 11:23:13 PM
Yis can totally agree all you want but you're wrong. Food production is of primary importance everywhere, all links in the chain are key workers it can't be left to break down or there will be total anarchy - that aint happening on any Government's watch.

If half those links in the chain get the virus then the number of people they spread it to will completely overwhelm the NHS/HSE and then your looking at Italian mortality rates.
I know what you're saying but it doesnt matter, the show must go on because it has to. I'm a public sector worker & a key worker, there's overtime mid week nights and weekends for the foreseeable, whoever's fit to work - works, some staff have retreated into long term self isolation, but the rest are expected to pick up the slack. How if pans out long term is anyone's guess.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rich Ricci on March 23, 2020, 01:31:28 PM
I work in recycling and having been around the recycling centres today I have to say I'm disgusted. Queues out till the road, more activity today than there has been since Christmas. People are treating this like they're on their holidays. I'm mad to get off and away from this to protect myself and my family but can't until I'm told our I lose out financially.

Johnson needs to call a lock down immediately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 23, 2020, 01:33:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 23, 2020, 01:25:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2020, 09:07:19 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 22, 2020, 11:23:13 PM
Yis can totally agree all you want but you're wrong. Food production is of primary importance everywhere, all links in the chain are key workers it can't be left to break down or there will be total anarchy - that aint happening on any Government's watch.

If half those links in the chain get the virus then the number of people they spread it to will completely overwhelm the NHS/HSE and then your looking at Italian mortality rates.
I know what you're saying but it doesnt matter, the show must go on because it has to. I'm a public sector worker & a key worker, there's overtime mid week nights and weekends for the foreseeable, whoever's fit to work - works, some staff have retreated into long term self isolation, but the rest are expected to pick up the slack. How if pans out long term is anyone's guess.
It's hard enough to isolate when everybody and their aunt is a key-worker, especially in the north as half the place is employed in the public sector.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 23, 2020, 01:54:51 PM
If one thing is evident Stormont and our Politicians are completely unfit for purpose. When things were at there worst, we've been abandoned.

Close schools - No clear guidance
Social distancing - No clear guidance or enforcement
Health Service - Completely under prepared
Not enough PPE

It's at this point that you realise that voting for people based on how Orange or Green they are and not electing competent people has been a huge mistake.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 02:07:54 PM
Quote from: Rich Ricci on March 23, 2020, 01:31:28 PM
I work in recycling and having been around the recycling centres today I have to say I'm disgusted. Queues out till the road, more activity today than there has been since Christmas. People are treating this like they're on their holidays. I'm mad to get off and away from this to protect myself and my family but can't until I'm told our I lose out financially.

Johnson needs to call a lock down immediately.

This kind of thing shows that many people do not engage their brain. We may all go to the recycling centre in the next while, but you don't need to rush there on Monday morning. In 3 or 4 days it will be quiet enough.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 23, 2020, 01:33:31 PM
It's hard enough to isolate when everybody and their aunt is a key-worker, especially in the north as half the place is employed in the public sector.

yet, there is nobody to run testing centres and contact tracing?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 23, 2020, 02:15:47 PM
I live in the countryside, 2 miles from a bigish beach. About 10 miles away from a big town.

Today I am in work (on lunch). Here is what my factory are doing...

- 2m social distancing
- People on patrol to check social distancing is being observed
- Posters and info everywhere.
- Canteen restrictions, 1/2 the chairs have been removed
- People encouraged to eat in their cars.
- Every desk has a sanitiser or Detrol spray on it.

Outside the factory town is dead. Every type of Shop is closed apart from Tesco, Lidl and Dunnes and your couple of corner shops and filling stations. Everything else is gone.
People are out walking but most seem to be adhering to 2m social distancing.

For me the biggest risk is not going to work, it is going to the shop. I go on my own, leave kids at home. When I leave my car I focus a lot on not touching my face, get the shopping trolley and use wipe to clean the handles. Do the shopping, avoiding people as much as possible. It is not possible of course to completely socialy avoid people in Tesco but I do my best. My big protection here is not to touch my face.

I get back to the car and before I drive off I get sanitiser and wash my hands. When I get home I wipe down the packaging of the food I buy. Its not 100% pr
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 23, 2020, 02:30:06 PM
We've gone into super contingency mode today. We are a pharmaceutical distributor so are very key to the supply chain and we label and distribute from our site in Ballinascreen.

The warehouse and labelling workers are being divided into 2 teams with a number of reserves to fill in if someone goes down. 2 shifts one before lunch and one after lunch, during lunch the lunch hour the whole place is to be disinfected.

Anyone who can work from home has to and there's no more than 2 people allowed in an office at any one time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on March 23, 2020, 02:49:48 PM
I had to do an emergency shop over lunch time there....I went by myself.
First problem, McDonalds is closing tonight so every road in the vicinity of the local Micky D's is at a standstill as every numpty in the planet is in the drive through queue. This in turn is blocking access to Sainsbury's/Home bargains etc.

Eventually got into Home Bargains....got the bread and beans and a pack of bog roll. There's no hand wash, hand sanitiser or soap. There's no signs up regarding social distancing and staff were not wearing gloves. People there with their kids and when you stand back to observe the 2m rule, then others are practically walking into you.
As I cant seem to get my hands on any sanitiser, I'm depending on baby wipes to clean my hands on returning to the car.

We def need a way to enforce the social distancing, but not sure how that can be done without a complete lock down.

No doubt, the same people who are flaunting the 2m rule now are the people who will cry most if a total lock down comes into force.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 02:54:23 PM
The last two posts show the way forward. This is long term thing, some way of carrying on business is needed, and if that needs substantial rearrangement then that is what is needed.

On packaging, if things are used immediately it may be worth thinking about it. If things are not used for a few days then the risk is gone.

Quote from: tbrick18 on March 23, 2020, 02:49:48 PM
We def need a way to enforce the social distancing, but not sure how that can be done without a complete lock down.

Regulating people in general may be hard, but surely they can regulate shops to have sanitiser and to limit the number in the shop and the queues inside the shop.

Since the government is spending money to support people who lost their jobs, I would pay for people to man the door and clean trolleys etc, this would be a good use of public funds as it would support the people but fight the virus also.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 23, 2020, 02:56:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 02:54:23 PM
The last two posts show the way forward. This is long term thing, some way of carrying on business is needed, and if that needs substantial rearrangement then that is what is needed.

On packaging, if things are used immediately it may be worth thinking about it. If things are not used for a few days then the risk is gone.

Quote from: tbrick18 on March 23, 2020, 02:49:48 PM
We def need a way to enforce the social distancing, but not sure how that can be done without a complete lock down.

Regulating people in general may be hard, but surely they can regulate shops to have sanitiser and to limit the number in the shop and the queues inside the shop.

Since the government is spending money to support people who lost their jobs, I would pay for people to man the door and clean trolleys etc, this would be a good use of public funds as it would support the people but fight the virus also.

I would say in times like these, considering the shops are making significantly more than normal, they should have to pay to do this themselves?

For example if you as a business are staying open it is mandatory to provide all sanitiser/gloves etc as well as making sure people in your shop follow the social distancing metrics laid out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 23, 2020, 02:59:10 PM
I think they, the shops, should be employing security guards and if you don't adhere to social distancing you should be turfed out of the shop.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 23, 2020, 03:19:29 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 23, 2020, 02:59:10 PM
I think they, the shops, should be employing security guards and if you don't adhere to social distancing you should be turfed out of the shop.

Agree 100%.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 23, 2020, 03:56:08 PM
Quote from: five points on March 23, 2020, 03:19:29 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 23, 2020, 02:59:10 PM
I think they, the shops, should be employing security guards and if you don't adhere to social distancing you should be turfed out of the shop.

Agree 100%.
A chap about 23 or so stood in the queue in Sainsbury's on Saturday breathing down my neck. When I asked him to step back a bit from my space he started laughing and asked was I serious.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: MayoBuck on March 23, 2020, 04:02:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 23, 2020, 02:59:10 PM
I think they, the shops, should be employing security guards and if you don't adhere to social distancing you should be turfed out of the shop.

Most pharmacies I've seen have someone on the door and will only let in a limited number of people at a time. The next phase of clamping down will probably mean rolling that out to grocery shops.

The centra near me have put perspex screens in front of all till operators.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 23, 2020, 04:03:56 PM
Last day of McDonald's today.
McDonald's Kennedy way closed down by the police because of the crowds that had descended.
McDonald's boucher road queued onto the M1.

People are nuts
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 23, 2020, 04:04:47 PM
What the hell. Takeaways still deliver whether that be mcdonalds or not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 23, 2020, 04:15:10 PM
Queueing at fkn McDonalds......
Evolution must be reversing at a fair oul pace up North...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 04:35:40 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 23, 2020, 03:56:08 PM
Quote from: five points on March 23, 2020, 03:19:29 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 23, 2020, 02:59:10 PM
I think they, the shops, should be employing security guards and if you don't adhere to social distancing you should be turfed out of the shop.

Agree 100%.
A chap about 23 or so stood in the queue in Sainsbury's on Saturday breathing down my neck. When I asked him to step back a bit from my space he started laughing and asked was I serious.

At this point you should have sneezed on him and said that you had the virus and you didnt want to be close to people, enjoy your day!

Well maybe not sneezed, coughed slightly  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 23, 2020, 04:43:30 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 23, 2020, 03:56:08 PM
Quote from: five points on March 23, 2020, 03:19:29 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 23, 2020, 02:59:10 PM
I think they, the shops, should be employing security guards and if you don't adhere to social distancing you should be turfed out of the shop.

Agree 100%.
A chap about 23 or so stood in the queue in Sainsbury's on Saturday breathing down my neck. When I asked him to step back a bit from my space he started laughing and asked was I serious.

Should have grabbed him by the throat and forced him back.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 23, 2020, 05:44:46 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 23, 2020, 04:43:30 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 23, 2020, 03:56:08 PM
Quote from: five points on March 23, 2020, 03:19:29 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 23, 2020, 02:59:10 PM
I think they, the shops, should be employing security guards and if you don't adhere to social distancing you should be turfed out of the shop.

Agree 100%.
A chap about 23 or so stood in the queue in Sainsbury's on Saturday breathing down my neck. When I asked him to step back a bit from my space he started laughing and asked was I serious.

Should have grabbed him by the throat and forced him back.
I did lose my temper a bit, which is unlike me, and told him he'd get a dig in the jaw if he didn't get out of my space. Which probably wasn't the ideal response  :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 23, 2020, 05:45:46 PM
+41 79 893 18 92

Add this number to your WhatsApp and message "Hi" this is being used by the world health organisation in relation to Covid-19
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 05:52:06 PM
Any indication on recovery numbers? What's the general percentages on that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 23, 2020, 06:18:42 PM
Two more people have died bringing the total number of deaths in ROI to six.

219 new cases of the virus have also been confirmed today. The total number of cases to 1,125 in the ROI .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 06:24:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 05:52:06 PM
Any indication on recovery numbers? What's the general percentages on that?

https://bing.com/covid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 23, 2020, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 23, 2020, 06:18:42 PM
Two more people have died bringing the total number of deaths in ROI to six.

219 new cases of the virus have also been confirmed today. The total number of cases to 1,125 in the ROI .

I'd be interested to know the number of ICU beds been used after today's increase , it was 29 up till yesterday
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on March 23, 2020, 06:44:27 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 23, 2020, 04:03:56 PM
Last day of McDonald's today.
McDonald's Kennedy way closed down by the police because of the crowds that had descended.
McDonald's boucher road queued onto the M1.

People are nuts

They define globalization & capitalism,  great if they never opened again,  hard to beat the local chippers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 23, 2020, 06:52:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 23, 2020, 04:15:10 PM
Queueing at fkn McDonalds......
Evolution must be reversing at a fair oul pace up North...

Ye didnt happen to see the queues at the donut place in Dublin when she opened a few months back. Jesus itd be great if just one thread on here wasnt used for cheap point scoring
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: playwiththewind1st on March 23, 2020, 07:07:02 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 23, 2020, 05:44:46 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 23, 2020, 04:43:30 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 23, 2020, 03:56:08 PM
Quote from: five points on March 23, 2020, 03:19:29 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 23, 2020, 02:59:10 PM
I think they, the shops, should be employing security guards and if you don't adhere to social distancing you should be turfed out of the shop.

Agree 100%.
A chap about 23 or so stood in the queue in Sainsbury's on Saturday breathing down my neck. When I asked him to step back a bit from my space he started laughing and asked was I serious.

Should have grabbed him by the throat and forced him back.
I did lose my temper a bit, which is unlike me, and told him he'd get a dig in the jaw if he didn't get out of my space. Which probably wasn't the ideal response  :-\

I think, in the circumstances, that was mild.  This whole situation is certainly showing us that a large section of society is currently populated by completely brain dead wankers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mourne Red on March 23, 2020, 07:10:49 PM
Brighter note - Sister in Law works in SWAH (Enniskillen Hospital) they discharged their first Coronavirus patient after two weeks of treatment.. Bit of good news for today
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 23, 2020, 07:11:26 PM
That would include a big chunk of those suppossedly running the country
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 23, 2020, 07:13:43 PM

   

Italy has suffered more coronavirus-related fatalities than China, with 4,825 confirmed deaths and 5,000 confirmed patients in the last 24 hours, Channel 12 reported on Sunday.
Israeli M.D. Gai Peleg, who is currently working to save lives in Parma, Italy, told Channel 12 that things are only getting worse as the number of patients keeps growing. 

Dr. Gai Peleg told Israeli television that in northern Italy, the orders are not to allow those over 60 access to respiratory machines. As his department receives coronavirus patients who are terminally ill, the focus is to allow patients to meet loved ones and communicate with them during their last moments despite the quarantine regulations. Other reports claim that, as the number of dead increases, some families find themselves unable to secure a proper burial for their loved ones. 


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 23, 2020, 07:21:06 PM
No of deaths and new cases fell in Italy today. Theyre still big but hopefully some light at the end of the tunnel...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: playwiththewind1st on March 23, 2020, 07:27:56 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 23, 2020, 07:11:26 PM
That would include a big chunk of those suppossedly running the country

Current Executive strategy for today....cry & it will all go away.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2020, 07:28:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 23, 2020, 04:15:10 PM
Queueing at fkn McDonalds......
Evolution must be reversing at a fair oul pace up North...

Harking back to 1690.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on March 23, 2020, 07:36:56 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on March 23, 2020, 07:27:56 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 23, 2020, 07:11:26 PM
That would include a big chunk of those suppossedly running the country

Current Executive strategy for today....cry & it will all go away.
That's really unfair
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 23, 2020, 07:37:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 23, 2020, 04:15:10 PM
Queueing at fkn McDonalds......
Evolution must be reversing at a fair oul pace up North...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JacvpugUw_g
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 23, 2020, 07:40:22 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 23, 2020, 06:52:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 23, 2020, 04:15:10 PM
Queueing at fkn McDonalds......
Evolution must be reversing at a fair oul pace up North...

Ye didnt happen to see the queues at the donut place in Dublin when she opened a few months back. Jesus itd be great if just one thread on here wasnt used for cheap point scoring
Kildare seems to be going the same way -Gardai had to ask a McDonalds to close this afternoon as the drive through Q was blocking a Main Road.
Sad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 23, 2020, 07:45:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 23, 2020, 04:04:47 PM
What the hell. Takeaways still deliver whether that be mcdonalds or not.

Nope no more takeaways fully closed from tonight!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 08:04:06 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 23, 2020, 07:45:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 23, 2020, 04:04:47 PM
What the hell. Takeaways still deliver whether that be mcdonalds or not.

Nope no more takeaways fully closed from tonight!!!

Which doesn't necessarily seem wise. This is a delivery system already operational which helps people out when stuck at home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 08:14:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 08:04:06 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 23, 2020, 07:45:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 23, 2020, 04:04:47 PM
What the hell. Takeaways still deliver whether that be mcdonalds or not.

Nope no more takeaways fully closed from tonight!!!

Which doesn't necessarily seem wise. This is a delivery system already operational which helps people out when stuck at home.

All takeaway's? Chinese Indian ordinary chippies? Or just McD's?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on March 23, 2020, 08:21:26 PM
Quote from: Rois on March 23, 2020, 07:36:56 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on March 23, 2020, 07:27:56 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 23, 2020, 07:11:26 PM
That would include a big chunk of those suppossedly running the country

Current Executive strategy for today....cry & it will all go away.
That's really unfair

This.

These people are human..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 08:29:08 PM
Boris going to tell everyone to stay in
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 23, 2020, 08:32:07 PM
UK on lockdown now.

From herd immunity just over a week ago  :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 08:36:49 PM
Welcome to the club, y'all. Room for one more.

(https://frinkiac.com/meme/S09E17/611026.jpg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 23, 2020, 08:41:13 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 23, 2020, 08:32:07 PM
UK on lockdown now.

From herd immunity just over a week ago  :-\
Here are the major points of his speech:

From tonight, people in Britain will be allowed to leave their homes for only "very limited purposes" - shopping for basic necessities; for one form of exercise a day; for any medical need; and to travel to and from work when "absolutely necessary"
People are warned not to meet friends or family members who they do not live with
Shopping is only permitted for essentials like food and medicine, and people are advised to do it "as little as you can"
Police have powers to enforce the rules, including through fines and dispersing gatherings
All shops selling non-essential goods, such as clothing and electronic stores, are ordered to close
Libraries, playgrounds, outdoor gyms and places of worship are to close
All gatherings of more than two people in public - excluding people you live with - are banned
All social events, including weddings and baptisms are banned
Funerals are not included in the new restrictions
Parks will remain open for exercise but gatherings will be dispersed
Restrictions "under constant review" and will be checked again in three weeks. They will be relaxed "if the evidence shows we are able to"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 23, 2020, 08:50:54 PM
The horse has bolted but this is all they can do now to try and minimise the damaged already caused. Herd immunity doesn't get mentioned anymore.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 08:51:23 PM
Will Leo follow suit?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 23, 2020, 08:54:49 PM
We are not privy to the data but it does seem like the south have better control but on the other side the earlier restrictions come in the better the outcome will be. I expect he will this week sometime.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 23, 2020, 08:57:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2020, 08:50:54 PM
The horse has bolted but this is all they can do now to try and minimise the damaged already caused. Herd immunity doesn't get mentioned anymore.

Herd immunity hasn't been proven to work for C19. It doesn't work with other viruses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 23, 2020, 08:58:05 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 23, 2020, 08:57:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2020, 08:50:54 PM
The horse has bolted but this is all they can do now to try and minimise the damaged already caused. Herd immunity doesn't get mentioned anymore.

Herd immunity hasn't been proven to work for C19. It doesn't work with other viruses.

I know that, I was referring to the shite Boris was talking 7 days ago
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Boycey on March 23, 2020, 08:59:27 PM
Boris was his usual unimpressive self...

He makes Donald look like a statesman
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 23, 2020, 09:00:53 PM
Bunch of incompetent assholes.

Talk about getting it wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 23, 2020, 09:00:59 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on March 23, 2020, 07:27:56 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 23, 2020, 07:11:26 PM
That would include a big chunk of those suppossedly running the country

Current Executive strategy for today....cry & it will all go away.

That is completely uncalled for. Who the hell do you think you are??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 23, 2020, 09:04:20 PM
#coronavirus Italy

D1 14case/1dead
76/2
153/3
231/7
374/12
528/17
821/21
1k/29
2k/34
2k/52
2k/79
3k/107
3k/148
4k/197
5k/233
6k/366
8k/463
9k/631
11k/827
13k/1015
15k/1266
18k/1441
21k/1809
23k/2158
26k/2503
29k/2979
33k/3405
38k/4032
43k/4821
47k/5476
D31 50418/6078

275k test
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 23, 2020, 09:05:43 PM
When italy has 1k cases detected, they had 29 dead. We have not gone that level here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 23, 2020, 09:06:34 PM
Quote from: Boycey on March 23, 2020, 08:59:27 PM
Boris was his usual unimpressive self...

He makes Donald look like a statesman

Dumb and dumber they are. I have no words good enough to call the people that voted them in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 09:16:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 08:51:23 PM
Will Leo follow suit?

Actually this should reduce the need to follow suit, as it drives home to people that these are not normal times and makes it more likely that they will cop themselves on. Leo can credibly theaten to inroduce more measures when people see how quickly Boris changed his tune.

Quote from: Itchy on March 23, 2020, 08:54:49 PM
We are not privy to the data but it does seem like the south have better control but on the other side the earlier restrictions come in the better the outcome will be. I expect he will this week sometime.

The 6 counties would be better to coordinate with the 26 counties, introducing some more measures but above all introduce proper testing, rather than blindly following Britain. But the unionists will just follow Boris and Blighty.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 23, 2020, 09:22:47 PM
I'm delighted that the 6 are under lockdown, it appears that the further from the border you go the less seriously this is taken (similar to attitudes over the water). Maybe this will make people cop on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 23, 2020, 09:26:42 PM
How is it a lockdown if he's saying people can go to work ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 23, 2020, 09:33:24 PM
Quote from: hardstation on March 23, 2020, 09:00:22 PM
Make sure you don't get scooped out on your second walk of the day.
You have been assigned the tallyman for the Falls Park.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: knockitdown on March 23, 2020, 09:33:53 PM
Are sites open or not??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 09:41:33 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on March 23, 2020, 07:27:56 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 23, 2020, 07:11:26 PM
That would include a big chunk of those suppossedly running the country

Current Executive strategy for today....cry & it will all go away.
That's a pretty pathetic post.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on March 23, 2020, 09:41:48 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 23, 2020, 05:45:46 PM
+41 79 893 18 92

Add this number to your WhatsApp and message "Hi" this is being used by the world health organisation in relation to Covid-19

This looked totally like a scam, but it's legit.
Seems to be a different number on the website though (possibly due to the fact I'm in Australia)
https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/who-health-alert-brings-covid-19-facts-to-billions-via-whatsapp (https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/who-health-alert-brings-covid-19-facts-to-billions-via-whatsapp)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 09:43:20 PM
Offies shut?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on March 23, 2020, 09:52:32 PM
At least Johnson didn't scrape the barrel of ignominy by quoting Churchill.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 23, 2020, 09:58:56 PM
From what I can gather sites/factories/offices are still open!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2020, 10:03:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 23, 2020, 09:00:59 PM
That is completely uncalled for. Who the hell do you think you are??

Is it f**k.

They were happy to sit on their holes and draw a wage for years while doing nothing.

Now a few big decisions come up and they completely f**k them up, one after the other after the other. Learning nothing from elsewhere.

We'd be much better off without Stormont.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 10:05:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 23, 2020, 09:58:56 PM
From what I can gather sites/factories/offices are still open!!

This will grind to a halt too. Geneva (where my company HQ) is has banned all construction activities. We're currently expecting it to be extended throughout the rest of Europe and the US in time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 23, 2020, 10:05:49 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 23, 2020, 09:58:56 PM
From what I can gather sites/factories/offices are still open!!

Same here , shur it's only the wans on the brew who stay at home all day anyway
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2020, 10:03:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 23, 2020, 09:00:59 PM
That is completely uncalled for. Who the hell do you think you are??

Is it f**k.

They were happy to sit on their holes and draw a wage for years while doing nothing.

Now a few big decisions come up and they completely f**k them up, one after the other after the other. Learning nothing from elsewhere.

We'd be much better off without Stormont.

Agreed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 23, 2020, 10:07:58 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 10:05:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 23, 2020, 09:58:56 PM
From what I can gather sites/factories/offices are still open!!

This will grind to a halt too. Geneva (where my company HQ) is has banned all construction activities. We're currently expecting it to be extended throughout the rest of Europe and the US in time.

" Industry is continuing to deliver on contractually agreed commitments for public and private sector clients while adhering to HSE and Chief Medical officer requirements/ recommendations.  The industry and its 147,000 employees are critical to both the economy and wider society as essential emergency works, housing, hospitals, roads, schools and other projects are delivered."

CIF has us down as essential, horrible frauds .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:08:04 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 23, 2020, 09:58:56 PM
From what I can gather sites/factories/offices are still open!!

Yep we are in as usual. 1000 workers
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on March 23, 2020, 10:11:54 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 23, 2020, 05:45:46 PM
+41 79 893 18 92

Add this number to your WhatsApp and message "Hi" this is being used by the world health organisation in relation to Covid-19

F*ck that, I'll get my updates from anonymous twitter users thank you very much  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: The Trap on March 23, 2020, 10:12:37 PM
Surely if this is to work everyone has to do their part and close up.......looks like a lot of companies are going to remain open
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on March 23, 2020, 10:38:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2020, 10:03:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 23, 2020, 09:00:59 PM
That is completely uncalled for. Who the hell do you think you are??

Is it f**k.

They were happy to sit on their holes and draw a wage for years while doing nothing.

Now a few big decisions come up and they completely f**k them up, one after the other after the other. Learning nothing from elsewhere.

We'd be much better off without Stormont.

Agreed

I don't get it? Why was it uncalled for?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: redzone on March 23, 2020, 10:40:32 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 23, 2020, 10:07:58 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 10:05:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 23, 2020, 09:58:56 PM
From what I can gather sites/factories/offices are still open!!

This will grind to a halt too. Geneva (where my company HQ) is has banned all construction activities. We're currently expecting it to be extended throughout the rest of Europe and the US in time.

" Industry is continuing to deliver on contractually agreed commitments for public and private sector clients while adhering to HSE and Chief Medical officer requirements/ recommendations.  The industry and its 147,000 employees are critical to both the economy and wider society as essential emergency works, housing, hospitals, roads, schools and other projects are delivered."

CIF has us down as essential, horrible frauds .
Why can't you stay at home if you don't want to go in. Either that or maybe start a diary
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyrone08 on March 23, 2020, 10:42:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:08:04 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 23, 2020, 09:58:56 PM
From what I can gather sites/factories/offices are still open!!

Yep we are in as usual. 1000 workers

A few thousand people in my place of work. All called essential, business as usual tomorrow. Lockdown is a joke when that many people are working together
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:43:24 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 23, 2020, 10:38:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2020, 10:03:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 23, 2020, 09:00:59 PM
That is completely uncalled for. Who the hell do you think you are??

Is it f**k.

They were happy to sit on their holes and draw a wage for years while doing nothing.

Now a few big decisions come up and they completely f**k them up, one after the other after the other. Learning nothing from elsewhere.

We'd be much better off without Stormont.

Agreed

I don't get it? Why was it uncalled for?

No I'm in agreement it's not uncalled for. Stormont does not work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 10:48:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:43:24 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 23, 2020, 10:38:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2020, 10:03:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 23, 2020, 09:00:59 PM
That is completely uncalled for. Who the hell do you think you are??

Is it f**k.

They were happy to sit on their holes and draw a wage for years while doing nothing.

Now a few big decisions come up and they completely f**k them up, one after the other after the other. Learning nothing from elsewhere.

We'd be much better off without Stormont.

Agreed

I don't get it? Why was it uncalled for?

No I'm in agreement it's not uncalled for. Stormont does not work.

Don't know about anyone else but I don't see the need to have a dig at a display of emotion at this time. Have a go at their decision making by all means. No need for the cheap digs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 10:50:33 PM
That's our northern department closed.. not back till 13/4/20 at a minimum!

Crazy times
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:54:25 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 10:48:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:43:24 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 23, 2020, 10:38:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2020, 10:03:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 23, 2020, 09:00:59 PM
That is completely uncalled for. Who the hell do you think you are??

Is it f**k.

They were happy to sit on their holes and draw a wage for years while doing nothing.

Now a few big decisions come up and they completely f**k them up, one after the other after the other. Learning nothing from elsewhere.

We'd be much better off without Stormont.

Agreed

I don't get it? Why was it uncalled for?

No I'm in agreement it's not uncalled for. Stormont does not work.

Don't know about anyone else but I don't see the need to have a dig at a display of emotion at this time. Have a go at their decision making by all means. No need for the cheap digs.

No sorry you are wrong. My wife is frontline. She currently is at work with no ppe. She can't get tested. She's at great risk, mostly due to very poor leadership at Stormont.. Their message was weak from the beginning. These are not cheap digs. This is serious stuff. Every message they have given has been vague and muddled
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 10:57:26 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 10:56:16 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 23, 2020, 10:07:58 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 10:05:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 23, 2020, 09:58:56 PM
From what I can gather sites/factories/offices are still open!!

This will grind to a halt too. Geneva (where my company HQ) is has banned all construction activities. We're currently expecting it to be extended throughout the rest of Europe and the US in time.

" Industry is continuing to deliver on contractually agreed commitments for public and private sector clients while adhering to HSE and Chief Medical officer requirements/ recommendations.  The industry and its 147,000 employees are critical to both the economy and wider society as essential emergency works, housing, hospitals, roads, schools and other projects are delivered."

CIF has us down as essential, horrible frauds .
It. Will. Stop. If it's not producing food or medicine, it will stop.

My company is part of the food supply chain and, like I said, our construction is stopping or has already stopped.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 11:04:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:54:25 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 10:48:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:43:24 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 23, 2020, 10:38:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2020, 10:03:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 23, 2020, 09:00:59 PM
That is completely uncalled for. Who the hell do you think you are??

Is it f**k.

They were happy to sit on their holes and draw a wage for years while doing nothing.

Now a few big decisions come up and they completely f**k them up, one after the other after the other. Learning nothing from elsewhere.

We'd be much better off without Stormont.

Agreed

I don't get it? Why was it uncalled for?

No I'm in agreement it's not uncalled for. Stormont does not work.

Don't know about anyone else but I don't see the need to have a dig at a display of emotion at this time. Have a go at their decision making by all means. No need for the cheap digs.

No sorry you are wrong. My wife is frontline. She currently is at work with no ppe. She can't get tested. She's at great risk, mostly due to very poor leadership at Stormont.. Their message was weak from the beginning. These are not cheap digs. This is serious stuff. Every message they have given has been vague and muddled
So post about that. Don't use a cheap dig about a show of emotion to make the point. I don't feel the need to get into a big discussion on it. My view is it lacks class.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 23, 2020, 11:06:32 PM
Quote from: redzone on March 23, 2020, 10:40:32 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 23, 2020, 10:07:58 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 10:05:13 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 23, 2020, 09:58:56 PM
From what I can gather sites/factories/offices are still open!!

This will grind to a halt too. Geneva (where my company HQ) is has banned all construction activities. We're currently expecting it to be extended throughout the rest of Europe and the US in time.

" Industry is continuing to deliver on contractually agreed commitments for public and private sector clients while adhering to HSE and Chief Medical officer requirements/ recommendations.  The industry and its 147,000 employees are critical to both the economy and wider society as essential emergency works, housing, hospitals, roads, schools and other projects are delivered."

CIF has us down as essential, horrible frauds .
Why can't you stay at home if you don't want to go in. Either that or maybe start a diary

Stay at home = no job to go back to plus any package govt come up with for people let go due to covid19 will not include people who just leave their job .

Why should building sites stay open = cause CIF are frauds , unions are corrupt and the industry is up to its neck In bogus self employment. Construction sector is no better than gangsterism at the top
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 11:11:06 PM
Many forms of construction do not require people to be within 2m of each other. What is required that these sites are properly run, not closed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 11:18:16 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 11:04:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:54:25 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 10:48:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:43:24 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 23, 2020, 10:38:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2020, 10:03:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 23, 2020, 09:00:59 PM
That is completely uncalled for. Who the hell do you think you are??

Is it f**k.

They were happy to sit on their holes and draw a wage for years while doing nothing.

Now a few big decisions come up and they completely f**k them up, one after the other after the other. Learning nothing from elsewhere.

We'd be much better off without Stormont.

Agreed

I don't get it? Why was it uncalled for?

No I'm in agreement it's not uncalled for. Stormont does not work.

Don't know about anyone else but I don't see the need to have a dig at a display of emotion at this time. Have a go at their decision making by all means. No need for the cheap digs.

No sorry you are wrong. My wife is frontline. She currently is at work with no ppe. She can't get tested. She's at great risk, mostly due to very poor leadership at Stormont.. Their message was weak from the beginning. These are not cheap digs. This is serious stuff. Every message they have given has been vague and muddled
So post about that. Don't use a cheap dig about a show of emotion to make the point. I don't feel the need to get into a big discussion on it. My view is it lacks class.

If you were paying attention you will have noticed that I have been doing that. But we should not paper over the inadequacies of Stormont because of a few tears. They have put us at risk. This is big boy stuff, these are not cheap shots. I've seen tears of fear this last week and it's been exacerbated by the folks on the hill
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 23, 2020, 11:24:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 11:11:06 PM
Many forms of construction do not require people to be within 2m of each other. What is required that these sites are properly run, not closed.

Mental stuff , some sites don't even have toilet roll ffs. Pass me that shovel, the one Tom used earlier , jack used before that and rob spat all over the handle . Honestly I promise you , it's impossible . There is no way to keep guidelines adhered to .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 11:26:37 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 11:18:16 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 11:04:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:54:25 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 10:48:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:43:24 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 23, 2020, 10:38:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2020, 10:03:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 23, 2020, 09:00:59 PM
That is completely uncalled for. Who the hell do you think you are??

Is it f**k.

They were happy to sit on their holes and draw a wage for years while doing nothing.

Now a few big decisions come up and they completely f**k them up, one after the other after the other. Learning nothing from elsewhere.

We'd be much better off without Stormont.

Agreed

I don't get it? Why was it uncalled for?

No I'm in agreement it's not uncalled for. Stormont does not work.

Don't know about anyone else but I don't see the need to have a dig at a display of emotion at this time. Have a go at their decision making by all means. No need for the cheap digs.

No sorry you are wrong. My wife is frontline. She currently is at work with no ppe. She can't get tested. She's at great risk, mostly due to very poor leadership at Stormont.. Their message was weak from the beginning. These are not cheap digs. This is serious stuff. Every message they have given has been vague and muddled
So post about that. Don't use a cheap dig about a show of emotion to make the point. I don't feel the need to get into a big discussion on it. My view is it lacks class.

If you were paying attention you will have noticed that I have been doing that. But we should not paper over the inadequacies of Stormont because of a few tears. They have put us at risk. This is big boy stuff, these are not cheap shots. I've seen tears of fear this last week and it's been exacerbated by the folks on the hill
Firstly I don't go looking for your posts. Secondly, your entitled to your opinion. I disagree with it and in my opinion the post lacked class. Nothing you've said has changed that view for me. I don't disagree that Stormont has been pretty useless. But that doesn't change my view on the post.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 11:37:43 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 11:26:37 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 11:18:16 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 11:04:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:54:25 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 10:48:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:43:24 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 23, 2020, 10:38:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2020, 10:03:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 23, 2020, 09:00:59 PM
That is completely uncalled for. Who the hell do you think you are??

Is it f**k.

They were happy to sit on their holes and draw a wage for years while doing nothing.

Now a few big decisions come up and they completely f**k them up, one after the other after the other. Learning nothing from elsewhere.

We'd be much better off without Stormont.

Agreed

I don't get it? Why was it uncalled for?

No I'm in agreement it's not uncalled for. Stormont does not work.

Don't know about anyone else but I don't see the need to have a dig at a display of emotion at this time. Have a go at their decision making by all means. No need for the cheap digs.

No sorry you are wrong. My wife is frontline. She currently is at work with no ppe. She can't get tested. She's at great risk, mostly due to very poor leadership at Stormont.. Their message was weak from the beginning. These are not cheap digs. This is serious stuff. Every message they have given has been vague and muddled
So post about that. Don't use a cheap dig about a show of emotion to make the point. I don't feel the need to get into a big discussion on it. My view is it lacks class.

If you were paying attention you will have noticed that I have been doing that. But we should not paper over the inadequacies of Stormont because of a few tears. They have put us at risk. This is big boy stuff, these are not cheap shots. I've seen tears of fear this last week and it's been exacerbated by the folks on the hill
Firstly I don't go looking for your posts. Secondly, your entitled to your opinion. I disagree with it and in my opinion the post lacked class. Nothing you've said has changed that view for me. I don't disagree that Stormont has been pretty useless. But that doesn't change my view on the post.

I think you should read back. You will find I didn't post it, I replied. BTW the main reason we have Stormont back up on running is because the nurses were run into the ground by 3 years of inaction by sf/dup.  3 years leaving us much less prepared for this crisis. Sf and dup don't get many votes out of Altnagelvin these days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 11:47:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 11:37:43 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 11:26:37 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 11:18:16 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 11:04:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:54:25 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 10:48:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:43:24 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 23, 2020, 10:38:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2020, 10:03:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 23, 2020, 09:00:59 PM
That is completely uncalled for. Who the hell do you think you are??

Is it f**k.

They were happy to sit on their holes and draw a wage for years while doing nothing.

Now a few big decisions come up and they completely f**k them up, one after the other after the other. Learning nothing from elsewhere.

We'd be much better off without Stormont.

Agreed

I don't get it? Why was it uncalled for?

No I'm in agreement it's not uncalled for. Stormont does not work.

Don't know about anyone else but I don't see the need to have a dig at a display of emotion at this time. Have a go at their decision making by all means. No need for the cheap digs.

No sorry you are wrong. My wife is frontline. She currently is at work with no ppe. She can't get tested. She's at great risk, mostly due to very poor leadership at Stormont.. Their message was weak from the beginning. These are not cheap digs. This is serious stuff. Every message they have given has been vague and muddled
So post about that. Don't use a cheap dig about a show of emotion to make the point. I don't feel the need to get into a big discussion on it. My view is it lacks class.

If you were paying attention you will have noticed that I have been doing that. But we should not paper over the inadequacies of Stormont because of a few tears. They have put us at risk. This is big boy stuff, these are not cheap shots. I've seen tears of fear this last week and it's been exacerbated by the folks on the hill
Firstly I don't go looking for your posts. Secondly, your entitled to your opinion. I disagree with it and in my opinion the post lacked class. Nothing you've said has changed that view for me. I don't disagree that Stormont has been pretty useless. But that doesn't change my view on the post.

I think you should read back. You will find I didn't post it, I replied. BTW the main reason we have Stormont back up on running is because the nurses were run into the ground by 3 years of inaction by sf/dup.  3 years leaving us much less prepared for this crisis. Sf and dup don't get many votes out of Altnagelvin these days.
I know you didn't post it. But you took issue with my response to it. You seem to be under some illusion I'm defending Stormont here. Im not sure why.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 11:53:25 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 11:47:07 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 11:37:43 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 11:26:37 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 11:18:16 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 11:04:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:54:25 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 10:48:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:43:24 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 23, 2020, 10:38:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 23, 2020, 10:07:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2020, 10:03:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 23, 2020, 09:00:59 PM
That is completely uncalled for. Who the hell do you think you are??

Is it f**k.

They were happy to sit on their holes and draw a wage for years while doing nothing.

Now a few big decisions come up and they completely f**k them up, one after the other after the other. Learning nothing from elsewhere.

We'd be much better off without Stormont.

Agreed

I don't get it? Why was it uncalled for?

No I'm in agreement it's not uncalled for. Stormont does not work.

Don't know about anyone else but I don't see the need to have a dig at a display of emotion at this time. Have a go at their decision making by all means. No need for the cheap digs.

No sorry you are wrong. My wife is frontline. She currently is at work with no ppe. She can't get tested. She's at great risk, mostly due to very poor leadership at Stormont.. Their message was weak from the beginning. These are not cheap digs. This is serious stuff. Every message they have given has been vague and muddled
So post about that. Don't use a cheap dig about a show of emotion to make the point. I don't feel the need to get into a big discussion on it. My view is it lacks class.

If you were paying attention you will have noticed that I have been doing that. But we should not paper over the inadequacies of Stormont because of a few tears. They have put us at risk. This is big boy stuff, these are not cheap shots. I've seen tears of fear this last week and it's been exacerbated by the folks on the hill
Firstly I don't go looking for your posts. Secondly, your entitled to your opinion. I disagree with it and in my opinion the post lacked class. Nothing you've said has changed that view for me. I don't disagree that Stormont has been pretty useless. But that doesn't change my view on the post.

I think you should read back. You will find I didn't post it, I replied. BTW the main reason we have Stormont back up on running is because the nurses were run into the ground by 3 years of inaction by sf/dup.  3 years leaving us much less prepared for this crisis. Sf and dup don't get many votes out of Altnagelvin these days.
I know you didn't post it. But you took issue with my response to it. You seem to be under some illusion I'm defending Stormont here. Im not sure why.

Seems to be cross wires.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on March 24, 2020, 12:01:02 AM
Doesn't matter what,  but no one defends Stormont.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Joeythelips on March 24, 2020, 12:01:17 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 11:11:06 PM
Many forms of construction do not require people to be within 2m of each other. What is required that these sites are properly run, not closed.

😵 It's a pandemic on the loose, any jobs that are not essential to the battle or cannot be done at home should be stopped and the people supported financially via social welfare. This pandemic will have plenty of permanent affects on society if we want to be prepared for future ones.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 24, 2020, 12:19:48 AM
I work in pharmaceutical industry and my employer turns over 20+ billion a year (correction: it is valued at 20+ billion). They won't fork out on licenses for us to use software at home on our computers. Instead, they are willing to let us go into work and get the virus and spread it.

The other week a colleague that works opposite me went to Portugal. He has since been diagnosed with Covid 19. I have seen this colleague since he returned but was on holiday last week. Bearing in mind someone can be contagious upto 14 days before showing symptoms my work haven't bothered telling me I could be infected.

A colleagues dad died at the weekend and they are waiting on post mortem results and I suspect it's from Covid 19. My managers have not told anyone in the office what has happened. They havent even said why the person is off work.

I find my workplace incredibly stupid, negligent and ignorant towards this virus and they have put me at risk of passing on the virus to my elderly parents and my family.

I'm due back in to work in Wednesday and I have given them an ultimatum. Either they sort out a way for me to work from home or I will leave with immediate effect. I appreciate not everyone can do this but i'm angry with how tight the company is, how piss poor the management is and how they are not telling us about people in the office being off sick.

I don't think they can afford to lose 2 workers for the next two weeks but I think losing our jobs is inevitable with the looming recession that will hit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 24, 2020, 12:30:30 AM
Quote from: Joeythelips on March 24, 2020, 12:01:17 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2020, 11:11:06 PM
Many forms of construction do not require people to be within 2m of each other. What is required that these sites are properly run, not closed.

😵 It's a pandemic on the loose, any jobs that are not essential to the battle or cannot be done at home should be stopped and the people supported financially via social welfare. This pandemic will have plenty of permanent affects on society if we want to be prepared for future ones.

If people's jobs do not put them at risk then someone is needed to pay for the social welfare.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 24, 2020, 12:46:55 AM
Spain is quickly descending into an Italian style situation. It appears that the staff from some old people's home have simply run off, and the army was sent  it they found dead people. This is not uncommon in epidemics like this and of course those staff were likely not provided with any protective gear.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 07:03:16 AM
Where can we see a list of essential services that should remain open
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on March 24, 2020, 07:14:34 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 07:03:16 AM
Where can we see a list of essential services that should remain open

I would say that's the question on thousands of people's lips this morning. Apparently Sports Direct deem themselves as essential and are staying open. Shower of c***ts.

You'd wonder does Boris intentionally be so vague in his address? Or is he just the complete buffoon that we think he is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 07:20:15 AM
Quote from: JohnDenver on March 24, 2020, 07:14:34 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 07:03:16 AM
Where can we see a list of essential services that should remain open

I would say that's the question on thousands of people's lips this morning. Apparently Sports Direct deem themselves as essential and are staying open. Shower of c***ts.

You'd wonder does Boris intentionally be so vague in his address? Or is he just the complete buffoon that we think he is.

I could not believe how vague it was, so so weak
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 24, 2020, 07:32:58 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 24, 2020, 12:19:48 AM
I work in pharmaceutical industry and my employer turns over 20+ billion a year (correction: it is valued at 20+ billion). They won't fork out on licenses for us to use software at home on our computers. Instead, they are willing to let us go into work and get the virus and spread it.

The other week a colleague that works opposite me went to Portugal. He has since been diagnosed with Covid 19. I have seen this colleague since he returned but was on holiday last week. Bearing in mind someone can be contagious upto 14 days before showing symptoms my work haven't bothered telling me I could be infected.

A colleagues dad died at the weekend and they are waiting on post mortem results and I suspect it's from Covid 19. My managers have not told anyone in the office what has happened. They havent even said why the person is off work.

I find my workplace incredibly stupid, negligent and ignorant towards this virus and they have put me at risk of passing on the virus to my elderly parents and my family.

I'm due back in to work in Wednesday and I have given them an ultimatum. Either they sort out a way for me to work from home or I will leave with immediate effect. I appreciate not everyone can do this but i'm angry with how tight the company is, how piss poor the management is and how they are not telling us about people in the office being off sick.

I don't think they can afford to lose 2 workers for the next two weeks but I think losing our jobs is inevitable with the looming recession that will hit.

From what I can see pharmaceutical companies are really busy right now is that not the case for you??

Regardless of that you're right if it's possible for you to work from home they should be doing everything they can to accommodate that most Pharma companies are big on "social responsibility" etc it seems strange that your company would do something so negligent with this.

I'd say a few well aimed tweets would help things as they don't like negative publicity if they can avoid it... unless day for price fixing they don't seem mind that!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 07:35:42 AM
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/874732/230320_-_Revised_guidance_note_-_finalVF.pdf

Only enforceable by law in England/Wales?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 24, 2020, 08:09:26 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 24, 2020, 07:32:58 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 24, 2020, 12:19:48 AM
I work in pharmaceutical industry and my employer turns over 20+ billion a year (correction: it is valued at 20+ billion). They won't fork out on licenses for us to use software at home on our computers. Instead, they are willing to let us go into work and get the virus and spread it.

The other week a colleague that works opposite me went to Portugal. He has since been diagnosed with Covid 19. I have seen this colleague since he returned but was on holiday last week. Bearing in mind someone can be contagious upto 14 days before showing symptoms my work haven't bothered telling me I could be infected.

A colleagues dad died at the weekend and they are waiting on post mortem results and I suspect it's from Covid 19. My managers have not told anyone in the office what has happened. They havent even said why the person is off work.

I find my workplace incredibly stupid, negligent and ignorant towards this virus and they have put me at risk of passing on the virus to my elderly parents and my family.

I'm due back in to work in Wednesday and I have given them an ultimatum. Either they sort out a way for me to work from home or I will leave with immediate effect. I appreciate not everyone can do this but i'm angry with how tight the company is, how piss poor the management is and how they are not telling us about people in the office being off sick.

I don't think they can afford to lose 2 workers for the next two weeks but I think losing our jobs is inevitable with the looming recession that will hit.

From what I can see pharmaceutical companies are really busy right now is that not the case for you??

Regardless of that you're right if it's possible for you to work from home they should be doing everything they can to accommodate that most Pharma companies are big on "social responsibility" etc it seems strange that your company would do something so negligent with this.

I'd say a few well aimed tweets would help things as they don't like negative publicity if they can avoid it... unless day for price fixing they don't seem mind that!
Could be one in the Newry area...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 24, 2020, 08:23:12 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 24, 2020, 12:19:48 AM
I work in pharmaceutical industry and my employer turns over 20+ billion a year (correction: it is valued at 20+ billion). They won't fork out on licenses for us to use software at home on our computers. Instead, they are willing to let us go into work and get the virus and spread it.

The other week a colleague that works opposite me went to Portugal. He has since been diagnosed with Covid 19. I have seen this colleague since he returned but was on holiday last week. Bearing in mind someone can be contagious upto 14 days before showing symptoms my work haven't bothered telling me I could be infected.

A colleagues dad died at the weekend and they are waiting on post mortem results and I suspect it's from Covid 19. My managers have not told anyone in the office what has happened. They havent even said why the person is off work.

I find my workplace incredibly stupid, negligent and ignorant towards this virus and they have put me at risk of passing on the virus to my elderly parents and my family.

I'm due back in to work in Wednesday and I have given them an ultimatum. Either they sort out a way for me to work from home or I will leave with immediate effect. I appreciate not everyone can do this but i'm angry with how tight the company is, how piss poor the management is and how they are not telling us about people in the office being off sick.

I don't think they can afford to lose 2 workers for the next two weeks but I think losing our jobs is inevitable with the looming recession that will hit.

There is a company in Mayo doing something similar, and wait for it, paying people €40 extra a day to come to work. A totally reckless thing to do as it is basically tempting people who may be sick to come to work for extra money. Same company have been shockingly poor in getting themselves set up for this crisis. Poor leadership in a plant can have terrible outcomes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 24, 2020, 08:28:25 AM
Pure madness that there are big Pharma companies without the infrastructure to be capable of employees home working. Unfortunately everyone can't work from home so if you have manufacturing or labs people are going to be needed, however these areas should be cleaner than anywhere with people wearing gloves, hand-washing, HEPA filtered air etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 24, 2020, 08:30:25 AM
Quote from: JohnDenver on March 24, 2020, 07:14:34 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 07:03:16 AM
Where can we see a list of essential services that should remain open

I would say that's the question on thousands of people's lips this morning. Apparently Sports Direct deem themselves as essential and are staying open. Shower of c***ts.

You'd wonder does Boris intentionally be so vague in his address? Or is he just the complete buffoon that we think he is.

Backtracking from Fat Mike........now they are closing  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 24, 2020, 09:01:04 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 10:50:33 PM
That's our northern department closed.. not back till 13/4/20 at a minimum!

Crazy times

Full salary or 80% MR2?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 24, 2020, 09:09:19 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 10:48:29 PM
Don't know about anyone else but I don't see the need to have a dig at a display of emotion at this time. Have a go at their decision making by all means. No need for the cheap digs.

Ever hear of the expression - "crocodile tears"?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 24, 2020, 09:24:33 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2020, 11:56:13 AM
Quote from: naka on March 20, 2020, 11:39:47 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2020, 10:55:24 AM
Quote from: naka on March 20, 2020, 10:44:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 20, 2020, 09:12:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.

The vast majority of people are now aware of what we need to do. Should we not as a collective be a bit more sensible with the rhetoric we use though.
milltown
tbf i normally take 70 minutes to get to work in the city
today it took me 44
m1 from sprucefield was 8 minutes to grosvenor so the place is quiet
in my own offices we have 15 in
reality we need cash collection to pay the wages next week.
tonights statement by the chancellor will explain if the collective is ever going to happen

I'm in my place of work in Belfast watching people go about their day, things not overly busy for a Friday but no fear or worried conversations, I'm in a very controlled environment using best  practices based on information from our head office in Dublin, no one is really going to change unless the government steps in and forcefully orders it! People are still passing it on. I haven't asked anyone to be  shot, yet

Naka,
   As a business owner what's the feeling in relation to the loans on offer from the UK Government?

I thought it was a bit of a cop out TBH as it's not their money and will need paid back with interest no matter how low that is.
johnny
reality is a loan is no good
as it has an interest rate and all i would be doing is kicking the can down the road so effectively working to pay bills for the next couple of years
our work has dropped off a cliff
i like the idea of say 50% contribution through paye which will actually help the guys who do things right and pay their taxes properly .
it costs £250k a month to run my business with wages at circa 160k inclusive of paye/nic
so in lockdown there is no money to pay.
i can cover april but after that  well  its lay offs etc

teh small business relief only covers small firms. most sme don`t qualify

That's the other side of it as an employer that an employee like me probably doesn't see.

The haste of the decision by O'Neills whilst understandable to an extent is poor short termism IMO. Yes there's a good chance some clubs have pushed orders out but they'll still need the stuff come July/August hopefully.

They'll lose out in the cancellations of Feile ok, but will need to ramp up for the Christmas market.

That's different than losing business that you'll never get back like hotels, pubs, airlines and the supply chain in such industries.

Could O'Neiils not have offered to make hazmat suits?

So they finally realised their skillset was useful, thank god for that!

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/manufacturing/sportswear-company-o-neills-to-make-hospital-scrubs-1.4210035 (https://www.irishtimes.com/business/manufacturing/sportswear-company-o-neills-to-make-hospital-scrubs-1.4210035)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armamike on March 24, 2020, 09:47:22 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 24, 2020, 09:24:33 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2020, 11:56:13 AM
Quote from: naka on March 20, 2020, 11:39:47 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2020, 10:55:24 AM
Quote from: naka on March 20, 2020, 10:44:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 20, 2020, 09:12:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Once the job crisis hits in the next few days it will cause a huge ripple effect across families, once the pressures start hitting everyone  then the cracks will appear.

The panic will be crazy. The GB government all talk about timing and ensuring that they have a handle on it. No country will or has in Europe until they lock down properly, when will the south do that? If they do the North needs to follow.

The vast majority of people are now aware of what we need to do. Should we not as a collective be a bit more sensible with the rhetoric we use though.
milltown
tbf i normally take 70 minutes to get to work in the city
today it took me 44
m1 from sprucefield was 8 minutes to grosvenor so the place is quiet
in my own offices we have 15 in
reality we need cash collection to pay the wages next week.
tonights statement by the chancellor will explain if the collective is ever going to happen

I'm in my place of work in Belfast watching people go about their day, things not overly busy for a Friday but no fear or worried conversations, I'm in a very controlled environment using best  practices based on information from our head office in Dublin, no one is really going to change unless the government steps in and forcefully orders it! People are still passing it on. I haven't asked anyone to be  shot, yet

Naka,
   As a business owner what's the feeling in relation to the loans on offer from the UK Government?

I thought it was a bit of a cop out TBH as it's not their money and will need paid back with interest no matter how low that is.
johnny
reality is a loan is no good
as it has an interest rate and all i would be doing is kicking the can down the road so effectively working to pay bills for the next couple of years
our work has dropped off a cliff
i like the idea of say 50% contribution through paye which will actually help the guys who do things right and pay their taxes properly .
it costs £250k a month to run my business with wages at circa 160k inclusive of paye/nic
so in lockdown there is no money to pay.
i can cover april but after that  well  its lay offs etc

teh small business relief only covers small firms. most sme don`t qualify

That's the other side of it as an employer that an employee like me probably doesn't see.

The haste of the decision by O'Neills whilst understandable to an extent is poor short termism IMO. Yes there's a good chance some clubs have pushed orders out but they'll still need the stuff come July/August hopefully.

They'll lose out in the cancellations of Feile ok, but will need to ramp up for the Christmas market.

That's different than losing business that you'll never get back like hotels, pubs, airlines and the supply chain in such industries.

Could O'Neiils not have offered to make hazmat suits?

So they finally realised their skillset was useful, thank god for that!

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/manufacturing/sportswear-company-o-neills-to-make-hospital-scrubs-1.4210035 (https://www.irishtimes.com/business/manufacturing/sportswear-company-o-neills-to-make-hospital-scrubs-1.4210035)

Good to see this.  A no brainer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on March 24, 2020, 09:53:31 AM
I was on the train this morning (have to as I'm a key worker they say).  Must say that I was glad to see that the train was basically empty.  There wasn't even many cars in the carpark either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 24, 2020, 10:00:26 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 24, 2020, 09:09:19 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 23, 2020, 10:48:29 PM
Don't know about anyone else but I don't see the need to have a dig at a display of emotion at this time. Have a go at their decision making by all means. No need for the cheap digs.

Ever hear of the expression - "crocodile tears"?
Yes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 24, 2020, 10:13:09 AM
Definitely a notable difference today. Maybe the message is getting through. Got a letter from employer to say that I'm a key worker (healthcare). Others should get the same for using at checkpoints.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 24, 2020, 10:39:19 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 24, 2020, 10:13:09 AM
Definitely a notable difference today. Maybe the message is getting through. Got a letter from employer to say that I'm a key worker (healthcare). Others should get the same for using at checkpoints.
I'm one too and I don't know many who aren't at this stage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2020, 11:03:41 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 24, 2020, 09:01:04 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2020, 10:50:33 PM
That's our northern department closed.. not back till 13/4/20 at a minimum!

Crazy times

Full salary or 80% MR2?

Won't know till later, full pay this month, but we are looking at a payment structure through to June!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 24, 2020, 11:05:17 AM
When this is all over, there will be some lessons to be learned re: planning and organisation of a major worldwide event like this.  This will be true for all countries.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 24, 2020, 11:09:08 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 24, 2020, 11:05:17 AM
When this is all over, there will be some lessons to be learned re: planning and organisation of a major worldwide event like this.  This will be true for all countries.

Donald says it will be over in a few weeks - how unbelievably stupid do you have to be to vote for a man like that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 24, 2020, 11:09:47 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 24, 2020, 11:09:08 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 24, 2020, 11:05:17 AM
When this is all over, there will be some lessons to be learned re: planning and organisation of a major worldwide event like this.  This will be true for all countries.

Donald says it will be over in a few weeks

Donald Duck???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 24, 2020, 11:10:41 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 24, 2020, 11:09:47 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 24, 2020, 11:09:08 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 24, 2020, 11:05:17 AM
When this is all over, there will be some lessons to be learned re: planning and organisation of a major worldwide event like this.  This will be true for all countries.

Donald says it will be over in a few weeks

Donald Duck???

I'd believe Donald Duck over Donald Trump
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 24, 2020, 11:13:08 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 24, 2020, 11:09:08 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 24, 2020, 11:05:17 AM
When this is all over, there will be some lessons to be learned re: planning and organisation of a major worldwide event like this.  This will be true for all countries.

Donald says it will be over in a few weeks - how unbelievably stupid do you have to be to vote for a man like that.
It was a Democratic plot a few weeks ago ::)

I see 40% of world's new cases yesterday were in the US.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 11:32:32 AM
Doe anyone know if ROI is planning to announce similar financial package(80%) similar to uk?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 24, 2020, 11:48:28 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 24, 2020, 11:13:08 AM
I see 40% of world's new cases yesterday were in the US.

They are f**ked.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 24, 2020, 11:48:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 11:32:32 AM
Doe anyone know if ROI is planning to announce similar financial package(80%) similar to uk?

Loads of talk on Sunday about it (75%) , haven't heard anything since but in their defence they said it would be finalised by wed/thurs .

Doesn't matter to those of us building essential yuppie housing though .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 24, 2020, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 24, 2020, 10:39:19 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 24, 2020, 10:13:09 AM
Definitely a notable difference today. Maybe the message is getting through. Got a letter from employer to say that I'm a key worker (healthcare). Others should get the same for using at checkpoints.
I'm one too and I don't know many who aren't at this stage.

I know lads working in Finance IT who are getting the same letters.

Companies need to f**k off. If you're not involved in the food or medical supply chain, you're not "essential"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 24, 2020, 11:55:27 AM
Also companies need to wise up and spend some money on a remote work infrastructure and do it now as if there is a load of taking the piss and this thing isn't got under any form of control then they'll just be shut.(which is obviously the lowest concern here I know but businesses can be kept going if they stop being dicks - finance/IT are not notorious for trusting their staff)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 11:56:04 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 24, 2020, 11:48:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 11:32:32 AM
Doe anyone know if ROI is planning to announce similar financial package(80%) similar to uk?

Loads of talk on Sunday about it (75%) , haven't heard anything since but in their defence they said it would be finalised by wed/thurs .

Doesn't matter to those of us building essential yuppie housing though .

Thanks. Yeah that seems to be a problem. Would you be eligible for SSP?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 24, 2020, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 24, 2020, 10:39:19 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 24, 2020, 10:13:09 AM
Definitely a notable difference today. Maybe the message is getting through. Got a letter from employer to say that I'm a key worker (healthcare). Others should get the same for using at checkpoints.
I'm one too and I don't know many who aren't at this stage.

I know lads working in Finance IT who are getting the same letters.

Companies need to f**k off. If you're not involved in the food or medical supply chain, you're not "essential"

I am hearing off licences open in some places? Is this true?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: toby47 on March 24, 2020, 12:05:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 11:32:32 AM
Doe anyone know if ROI is planning to announce similar financial package(80%) similar to uk?

Is the 80% in UK finalised? When does it kick into action?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on March 24, 2020, 12:11:28 PM
Quote from: toby47 on March 24, 2020, 12:05:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 11:32:32 AM
Doe anyone know if ROI is planning to announce similar financial package(80%) similar to uk?

Is the 80% in UK finalised? When does it kick into action?

UK backdated to March 1st I believe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 24, 2020, 12:12:41 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 24, 2020, 11:55:27 AM
Also companies need to wise up and spend some money on a remote work infrastructure and do it now as if there is a load of taking the piss and this thing isn't got under any form of control then they'll just be shut.(which is obviously the lowest concern here I know but businesses can be kept going if they stop being dicks - finance/IT are not notorious for trusting their staff)

I'm talking Morgen Stanley here. This lad is a director who can work from home any time he wants without an eyelid being batted. Company are furnishing everyone with these letters about how they're a Global Systemically Important Financial Institution blah blah blah. All of which is true, but irrelevant.

These docs aren't worth the paper they're written on from a legal perspective. If you can work from home, you should be working from home. Not f**king taking a packed Tube into Canary Wharf. The arrogance of these crowds is breathtaking.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 24, 2020, 12:24:57 PM
Yep agreed.

It has become very clear over the past few weeks who the real critical workers are and it's mostly not the people who think they are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 24, 2020, 12:26:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 24, 2020, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 24, 2020, 10:39:19 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 24, 2020, 10:13:09 AM
Definitely a notable difference today. Maybe the message is getting through. Got a letter from employer to say that I'm a key worker (healthcare). Others should get the same for using at checkpoints.
I'm one too and I don't know many who aren't at this stage.

I know lads working in Finance IT who are getting the same letters.

Companies need to f**k off. If you're not involved in the food or medical supply chain, you're not "essential"

I am hearing off licences open in some places? Is this true?
I've seen one open in Belfast yes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 24, 2020, 12:34:11 PM
Trump is going to open the US up again in the next few days because he doesn't want China to be going while the US are not . . . it's going to be a disaster!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 24, 2020, 12:38:51 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 24, 2020, 12:26:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 24, 2020, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 24, 2020, 10:39:19 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 24, 2020, 10:13:09 AM
Definitely a notable difference today. Maybe the message is getting through. Got a letter from employer to say that I'm a key worker (healthcare). Others should get the same for using at checkpoints.
I'm one too and I don't know many who aren't at this stage.

I know lads working in Finance IT who are getting the same letters.

Companies need to f**k off. If you're not involved in the food or medical supply chain, you're not "essential"

I am hearing off licences open in some places? Is this true?
I've seen one open in Belfast yes.
Address?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on March 24, 2020, 12:39:58 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 24, 2020, 12:38:51 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 24, 2020, 12:26:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 24, 2020, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 24, 2020, 10:39:19 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 24, 2020, 10:13:09 AM
Definitely a notable difference today. Maybe the message is getting through. Got a letter from employer to say that I'm a key worker (healthcare). Others should get the same for using at checkpoints.
I'm one too and I don't know many who aren't at this stage.

I know lads working in Finance IT who are getting the same letters.

Companies need to f**k off. If you're not involved in the food or medical supply chain, you're not "essential"

I am hearing off licences open in some places? Is this true?
I've seen one open in Belfast yes.
Address?

Asking for a friend ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 24, 2020, 12:53:32 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 24, 2020, 12:38:51 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 24, 2020, 12:26:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 24, 2020, 11:52:46 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 24, 2020, 10:39:19 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 24, 2020, 10:13:09 AM
Definitely a notable difference today. Maybe the message is getting through. Got a letter from employer to say that I'm a key worker (healthcare). Others should get the same for using at checkpoints.
I'm one too and I don't know many who aren't at this stage.

I know lads working in Finance IT who are getting the same letters.

Companies need to f**k off. If you're not involved in the food or medical supply chain, you're not "essential"

I am hearing off licences open in some places? Is this true?
I've seen one open in Belfast yes.
Address?

World of wine Finaghy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2020, 12:58:20 PM
Lidil are open, as is tesco and our local is closed but will deliver for orders over £50

if you are into wines, Portugal Vine yards is a great site. use them all the time, 12 bottles of Porta 6 (great wine) for 60 euro, delivered. but they have hundreds of choices
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 24, 2020, 01:14:34 PM
Jases we need th'oul off licences open to keep us all sane.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: shantygael on March 24, 2020, 01:58:42 PM
Chill off licences  in Derry  are selling milk , beans,  bread etc  so as to come under the  the umbrella of essential services and stay open. Saw  a photo of it last night. Milk next to the chardonnay.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 02:06:55 PM
Every off license I've passed in Derry open. Florists, hair dressers etc. Absolute joke
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on March 24, 2020, 02:07:40 PM
The UK Supreme Court is being conducted today via video conference. Judges in their homes and counsel in theirs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 24, 2020, 02:14:07 PM
FFS https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/24/tube-carriages-still-packed-brim-despite-uks-coronavirus-lockdown-12446763/?fbclid=IwAR2EwtXAHMvGAnHeFqBhhg8ZWDv5cJ7qVvX0-ZI01AO4hU3e7_8mQ57kcYA
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 24, 2020, 02:15:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2020, 12:58:20 PM
if you are into wines, Portugal Vine yards is a great site. use them all the time, 12 bottles of Porta 6 (great wine) for 60 euro, delivered. but they have hundreds of choices

Cheers for that MR!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 24, 2020, 02:20:52 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 02:06:55 PM
Every off license I've passed in Derry open. Florists, hair dressers etc. Absolute joke

Surely is this not where the beloved boys in blue come into play ie enforcement
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2020, 02:22:20 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on March 24, 2020, 02:07:40 PM
The UK Supreme Court is being conducted today via video conference. Judges in their homes and counsel in theirs.

But as long as the hair dressers are open and everyone needs flowers
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 02:24:19 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 24, 2020, 02:20:52 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 02:06:55 PM
Every off license I've passed in Derry open. Florists, hair dressers etc. Absolute joke

Surely is this not where the beloved boys in blue come into play ie enforcement

Tbh I'm very disappointed with people. I love my beer but get delivery services sorted ffs. Winemark in Belfast a shit employer, didn't give 2 fecks about their workers. Only issued guidelines 2 days ago
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 24, 2020, 03:28:39 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 24, 2020, 02:20:52 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 02:06:55 PM
Every off license I've passed in Derry open. Florists, hair dressers etc. Absolute joke

Surely is this not where the beloved boys in blue come into play ie enforcement

Harry Corrys ffs!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 24, 2020, 03:30:51 PM
My work is not letting me work from home.

They have said I can either self isolate or go in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 24, 2020, 03:36:55 PM
F**k sake.

What do you do that needs you to go in?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 24, 2020, 03:39:12 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 02:06:55 PM
Every off license I've passed in Derry open. Florists, hair dressers etc. Absolute joke

What a shit hole.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 24, 2020, 03:45:44 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 24, 2020, 03:39:12 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 02:06:55 PM
Every off license I've passed in Derry open. Florists, hair dressers etc. Absolute joke

What a shit hole.
Aye dead on walter ::)
You do realise that some of the businesses in Derry were the first to take the initiative on this in the north? First bars to close etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 24, 2020, 03:47:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 24, 2020, 03:36:55 PM
F**k sake.

What do you do that needs you to go in?

Work at a help desk for pharmacies across UK. If there's a problem with medication that has been ordered they contact us to sort it out. However, we are basically a middle man and we just contact the hubs to see what has gone wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 24, 2020, 03:51:06 PM
That shows absolutely no concern for your welfare whatsoever.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 04:00:00 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 24, 2020, 03:45:44 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 24, 2020, 03:39:12 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 02:06:55 PM
Every off license I've passed in Derry open. Florists, hair dressers etc. Absolute joke

What a shit hole.
Aye dead on walter ::)
You do realise that some of the businesses in Derry were the first to take the initiative on this in the north? First bars to close etc.

Correct
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 24, 2020, 04:16:18 PM
Leo made sure to tell us construction sites will remain open.   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 24, 2020, 04:16:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 02:06:55 PM
Every off license I've passed in Derry open. Florists, hair dressers etc. Absolute joke

Barbers and the likes are closed down our way.

Had to give the wee lad (aged 14) a bit of a buzz cut last night. He wanted a 1 at the sides and by god he got it. His ma wasn't best pleased but it'll grow back by the time he ever sees anyone outside these four walls.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 24, 2020, 04:18:30 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 24, 2020, 03:51:06 PM
That shows absolutely no concern for your welfare whatsoever.

The only saving grace is that I'm going to be in Wednesday, Friday and Tuesday.. then off for a week and might self isolate then.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 24, 2020, 04:33:28 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 24, 2020, 04:16:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 02:06:55 PM
Every off license I've passed in Derry open. Florists, hair dressers etc. Absolute joke

Barbers and the likes are closed down our way.

Had to give the wee lad (aged 14) a bit of a buzz cut last night. He wanted a 1 at the sides and by god he got it. His ma wasn't best pleased but it'll grow back by the time he ever sees anyone outside these four walls.

Lol...That's ace!!
Maybe a new career for you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 24, 2020, 05:06:05 PM
Long hair for men will be back in fashion this year ;D
Maybe not for all of course.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 24, 2020, 05:38:25 PM
The Bot are openly advertising their off licence as being open from 2pm on Facebook. Some people just do not care.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on March 24, 2020, 05:58:18 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on March 24, 2020, 04:16:18 PM
Leo made sure to tell us construction sites will remain open.

Anything improved on site since last week?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 24, 2020, 06:06:39 PM
This may seem a strange question.  Even if the government pays the most of the wages to companies' employess and they are closed for , say 6 weeks.  Will that company go out of business (even though there's no cash coming in during that time)?

Or are they in status quo and just start off again where they left off?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: shantygael on March 24, 2020, 06:39:22 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 02:24:19 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 24, 2020, 02:20:52 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 02:06:55 PM
Every off license I've passed in Derry open. Florists, hair dressers etc. Absolute joke

Surely is this not where the beloved boys in blue come into play ie enforcement

Tbh I'm very disappointed with people. I love my beer but get delivery services sorted ffs. Winemark in Belfast a shit employer, didn't give 2 fecks about their workers. Only issued guidelines 2 days ago
just did that with my torps from beerwolf,hoors said it wouldn't be  delivered until next week.☹
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: shantygael on March 24, 2020, 06:44:52 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 24, 2020, 03:28:39 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 24, 2020, 02:20:52 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 02:06:55 PM
Every off license I've passed in Derry open. Florists, hair dressers etc. Absolute joke

Surely is this not where the beloved boys in blue come into play ie enforcement

Harry Corrys ffs!
Dunelm too. Who ithe feck in the right mind is out buying  cushions.,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on March 24, 2020, 07:30:20 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 24, 2020, 04:16:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 02:06:55 PM
Every off license I've passed in Derry open. Florists, hair dressers etc. Absolute joke

Barbers and the likes are closed down our way.

Had to give the wee lad (aged 14) a bit of a buzz cut last night. He wanted a 1 at the sides and by god he got it. His ma wasn't best pleased but it'll grow back by the time he ever sees anyone outside these four walls.

More parents should do that, give them a hatchet job haircut and they won't want to go out, no arguments, ahead of the time! Lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 24, 2020, 07:39:52 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 24, 2020, 06:06:39 PM
This may seem a strange question.  Even if the government pays the most of the wages to companies' employess and they are closed for , say 6 weeks.  Will that company go out of business (even though there's no cash coming in during that time)?

Or are they in status quo and just start off again where they left off?

Say it's a bar or restaurant. Will be shut for the duration. Costs during shutdown should be manageable. As soon as life returns to normal they will open again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on March 24, 2020, 07:43:37 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 24, 2020, 05:38:25 PM
The Bot are openly advertising their off licence as being open from 2pm on Facebook. Some people just do not care
Some people dont care is right.
Found out today my next door neighbour got tested yesterday, yet she was out walking around today and her husband has been going to work. f**kers could be infecting loads of people if she does have it.
We haven't talked to them in years as they are both cnuts and this just proves what cnuts they are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 24, 2020, 08:47:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2020, 12:58:20 PM
Lidil are open, as is tesco and our local is closed but will deliver for orders over £50

if you are into wines, Portugal Vine yards is a great site. use them all the time, 12 bottles of Porta 6 (great wine) for 60 euro, delivered. but they have hundreds of choices
MR2 it's coming up for me 23 euro deliver? How you get the free delivery option? Am I doing something stupid? Wife looking recommendation's on the white as well! Cheers
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 24, 2020, 08:49:10 PM
What's the story with golf courses still open? They shut in the south now? Seems a bit bonkers though I can see why ones would think it's ideal for social distancing. I miles away from everybody when I play, unless your coming up the other fairway!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on March 24, 2020, 08:50:04 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 24, 2020, 08:49:10 PM
What's the story with golf courses still open? They shut in the south now? Seems a bit bonkers though I can see why ones would think it's ideal for social distancing. I miles away from everybody when I play, unless your coming up the other fairway!
Was talking to the aul fella earlier and he said the course he is a member of is closed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:51:00 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 24, 2020, 08:49:10 PM
What's the story with golf courses still open? They shut in the south now? Seems a bit bonkers though I can see why ones would think it's ideal for social distancing. I miles away from everybody when I play, unless your coming up the other fairway!

You'd be picking balls out of the same holes though. The virus lives on surfaces for days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2020, 08:51:55 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 24, 2020, 08:47:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2020, 12:58:20 PM
Lidil are open, as is tesco and our local is closed but will deliver for orders over £50

if you are into wines, Portugal Vine yards is a great site. use them all the time, 12 bottles of Porta 6 (great wine) for 60 euro, delivered. but they have hundreds of choices
MR2 it's coming up for me 23 euro deliver? How you get the free delivery option? Am I doing something stupid? Wife looking recommendation's on the white as well! Cheers

16 either 15 or 16 quid for delivery send me a pm
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 24, 2020, 09:08:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2020, 08:51:55 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 24, 2020, 08:47:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2020, 12:58:20 PM
Lidil are open, as is tesco and our local is closed but will deliver for orders over £50

if you are into wines, Portugal Vine yards is a great site. use them all the time, 12 bottles of Porta 6 (great wine) for 60 euro, delivered. but they have hundreds of choices
MR2 it's coming up for me 23 euro deliver? How you get the free delivery option? Am I doing something stupid? Wife looking recommendation's on the white as well! Cheers

16 either 15 or 16 quid for delivery send me a pm
You may get a lockdown drinks thread started. Beerhawk is decent for beer deliveries. Goose Island 312 is a decent wee drop.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 24, 2020, 09:08:59 PM
The vineyard is setting up deliveries.not available for a few days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on March 24, 2020, 09:10:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2020, 08:51:55 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 24, 2020, 08:47:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2020, 12:58:20 PM
Lidil are open, as is tesco and our local is closed but will deliver for orders over £50

if you are into wines, Portugal Vine yards is a great site. use them all the time, 12 bottles of Porta 6 (great wine) for 60 euro, delivered. but they have hundreds of choices
MR2 it's coming up for me 23 euro deliver? How you get the free delivery option? Am I doing something stupid? Wife looking recommendation's on the white as well! Cheers

16 either 15 or 16 quid for delivery send me a pm

Saw a link to an article in the FT there regarding a study done by Oxford University. They're saying that 50% of the UK already have it or have had it. They also said it has been around in the uk since mid January. If that's the case the lockdown won't be as long as first thought. They also think only 1 in 1000 will require hospital care as a high percentage are getting very little symptoms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on March 24, 2020, 09:17:26 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2020, 08:51:00 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 24, 2020, 08:49:10 PM
What's the story with golf courses still open? They shut in the south now? Seems a bit bonkers though I can see why ones would think it's ideal for social distancing. I miles away from everybody when I play, unless your coming up the other fairway!

You'd be picking balls out of the same holes though. The virus lives on surfaces for days.
The courses reacted to this risk and you didn't have to pick your ball out of the hole. The clubs had all closed clubhouses etc.
They all closed this morn in the north, and the golfing unions in Ireland are calling for them all to be closed throughout the island. I played on Sun, straight from car to tee, never less than 2m from my playing partner.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on March 24, 2020, 09:22:31 PM
To date:
Britain 417 deaths
Island of Ireland 12 deaths

Britain has 10 times the population of Ireland, yet has 35 times the deaths .... they're getting badly hit across the water.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 24, 2020, 09:26:13 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 24, 2020, 09:10:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2020, 08:51:55 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 24, 2020, 08:47:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2020, 12:58:20 PM
Lidil are open, as is tesco and our local is closed but will deliver for orders over £50

if you are into wines, Portugal Vine yards is a great site. use them all the time, 12 bottles of Porta 6 (great wine) for 60 euro, delivered. but they have hundreds of choices
MR2 it's coming up for me 23 euro deliver? How you get the free delivery option? Am I doing something stupid? Wife looking recommendation's on the white as well! Cheers

16 either 15 or 16 quid for delivery send me a pm

Saw a link to an article in the FT there regarding a study done by Oxford University. They're saying that 50% of the UK already have it or have had it. They also said it has been around in the uk since mid January. If that's the case the lockdown won't be as long as first thought. They also think only 1 in 1000 will require hospital care as a high percentage are getting very little symptoms.

Saw that too Lenny. Although far from proven it represents a different picture than the Imperial College one which put the shits up everyone. While still taking all the precautions its good to read a more positive report
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 24, 2020, 09:29:15 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on March 24, 2020, 09:22:31 PM
To date:
Britain 417 deaths
Island of Ireland 12 deaths

Britain has 10 times the population of Ireland, yet has 35 times the deaths .... they're getting badly hit across the water.
Not entirely a fair comparison as the Brits are mostly getting nailed in London, which isn't surprising as a global hub with a high population density.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on March 24, 2020, 09:37:55 PM
Badly hit because they were slow to do anything. They were even going to play Premier League games before Arteta was confirmed. Cheltenham went ahead, pubs left open.  Going from herd immunity to a full lockdown.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 24, 2020, 09:41:27 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on March 24, 2020, 09:37:55 PM
Badly hit because they were slow to do anything. They were even going to play Premier League games before Arteta was confirmed. Cheltenham went ahead, pubs left open.  Going from herd immunity to a full lockdown.

One of Icelands outbreaks has been traced with travel to Premier game.. Over there they mostly support Liverpool and utd
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 24, 2020, 09:44:38 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 24, 2020, 09:10:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2020, 08:51:55 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 24, 2020, 08:47:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2020, 12:58:20 PM
Lidil are open, as is tesco and our local is closed but will deliver for orders over £50

if you are into wines, Portugal Vine yards is a great site. use them all the time, 12 bottles of Porta 6 (great wine) for 60 euro, delivered. but they have hundreds of choices
MR2 it's coming up for me 23 euro deliver? How you get the free delivery option? Am I doing something stupid? Wife looking recommendation's on the white as well! Cheers

16 either 15 or 16 quid for delivery send me a pm

Saw a link to an article in the FT there regarding a study done by Oxford University. They're saying that 50% of the UK already have it or have had it. They also said it has been around in the uk since mid January. If that's the case the lockdown won't be as long as first thought. They also think only 1 in 1000 will require hospital care as a high percentage are getting very little symptoms.

Could someone copy and paste if possible? Thanks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2020, 09:48:48 PM
I get the offy isn't essential that's fine, but the scaffolding company I seen working today at someone's house is?

The list seems to an ever changing one
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 24, 2020, 10:02:58 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 24, 2020, 09:44:38 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 24, 2020, 09:10:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2020, 08:51:55 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 24, 2020, 08:47:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2020, 12:58:20 PM
Lidil are open, as is tesco and our local is closed but will deliver for orders over £50

if you are into wines, Portugal Vine yards is a great site. use them all the time, 12 bottles of Porta 6 (great wine) for 60 euro, delivered. but they have hundreds of choices
MR2 it's coming up for me 23 euro deliver? How you get the free delivery option? Am I doing something stupid? Wife looking recommendation's on the white as well! Cheers

16 either 15 or 16 quid for delivery send me a pm

Saw a link to an article in the FT there regarding a study done by Oxford University. They're saying that 50% of the UK already have it or have had it. They also said it has been around in the uk since mid January. If that's the case the lockdown won't be as long as first thought. They also think only 1 in 1000 will require hospital care as a high percentage are getting very little symptoms.

Could someone copy and paste if possible? Thanks

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/5ff6469a-6dd8-11ea-89df-41bea055720b

It's not behind a paywall
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 24, 2020, 10:05:56 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-52025918

These brainless f***ers need prison sentences.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 24, 2020, 10:17:13 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 24, 2020, 09:10:08 PM
Saw a link to an article in the FT there regarding a study done by Oxford University. They're saying that 50% of the UK already have it or have had it. They also said it has been around in the uk since mid January. If that's the case the lockdown won't be as long as first thought. They also think only 1 in 1000 will require hospital care as a high percentage are getting very little symptoms.

That study is bullshit. Doesn't pass the sniff test at all.

They can model all they want - but there is no way the thing was here spreading to half the population since mid Jan without a corresponding exponential curve in hospital submissions and deaths tracking from that time period.

A virus simply doesn't selectively pick out good carriers that won't succumb early so it can spread better. That's just not the way it works - at all.


I agree that anti-body tests are essential, but that is as far as I agree with Gupta. If initial anti-body testing does start to produce the kind of returns that supports their hypothesis, then I'll pay attention. But not a minute before. It was the inept modelling assumptions of Whitty and Vallance that got us deeper into this mess in the first place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 24, 2020, 11:15:39 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 24, 2020, 10:02:58 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 24, 2020, 09:44:38 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 24, 2020, 09:10:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2020, 08:51:55 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 24, 2020, 08:47:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2020, 12:58:20 PM
Lidil are open, as is tesco and our local is closed but will deliver for orders over £50

if you are into wines, Portugal Vine yards is a great site. use them all the time, 12 bottles of Porta 6 (great wine) for 60 euro, delivered. but they have hundreds of choices
MR2 it's coming up for me 23 euro deliver? How you get the free delivery option? Am I doing something stupid? Wife looking recommendation's on the white as well! Cheers

16 either 15 or 16 quid for delivery send me a pm

Saw a link to an article in the FT there regarding a study done by Oxford University. They're saying that 50% of the UK already have it or have had it. They also said it has been around in the uk since mid January. If that's the case the lockdown won't be as long as first thought. They also think only 1 in 1000 will require hospital care as a high percentage are getting very little symptoms.

Could someone copy and paste if possible? Thanks

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/5ff6469a-6dd8-11ea-89df-41bea055720b

It's not behind a paywall

Thanks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 24, 2020, 11:54:18 PM
Not sure if it should be here or the WTF thread but Conor McGregor going on a seemingly coked up rant to the Covid task force talking about "my nation" and  "Vice Admiral Mellet" is right up there with the weirdest shit I've seen in my time... would it class as meta??

Anyway we'll be grand now the Notorious has cleared it up!

Bonkers!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 25, 2020, 12:01:49 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 24, 2020, 11:54:18 PM
Not sure if it should be here or the WTF thread but Conor McGregor going on a seemingly coked up rant to the Covid task force talking about "my nation" and  "Vice Admiral Mellet" is right up there with the weirdest shit I've seen in my time... would it class as meta??

Anyway we'll be grand now the Notorious has cleared it up!

Bonkers!!

While he isn't wrong there is an increasingly annoying arrogance about him that is becoming unbearable these days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 12:16:48 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 24, 2020, 10:17:13 PM
They can model all they want - but there is no way the thing was here spreading to half the population since mid Jan without a corresponding exponential curve in hospital submissions and deaths tracking from that time period.

A virus simply doesn't selectively pick out good carriers that won't succumb early so it can spread better. That's just not the way it works - at all.

Oxford is a serious university in most respects. However, I find it difficult to believe this. If a large proportion of people had the virus, then a proportion of those would need hospitalisation and sooner or later ICU and somebody would have noticed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 25, 2020, 01:36:54 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 24, 2020, 10:17:13 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 24, 2020, 09:10:08 PM
Saw a link to an article in the FT there regarding a study done by Oxford University. They're saying that 50% of the UK already have it or have had it. They also said it has been around in the uk since mid January. If that's the case the lockdown won't be as long as first thought. They also think only 1 in 1000 will require hospital care as a high percentage are getting very little symptoms.

That study is bullshit. Doesn't pass the sniff test at all.

They can model all they want - but there is no way the thing was here spreading to half the population since mid Jan without a corresponding exponential curve in hospital submissions and deaths tracking from that time period.

A virus simply doesn't selectively pick out good carriers that won't succumb early so it can spread better. That's just not the way it works - at all.


I agree that anti-body tests are essential, but that is as far as I agree with Gupta. If initial anti-body testing does start to produce the kind of returns that supports their hypothesis, then I'll pay attention. But not a minute before. It was the inept modelling assumptions of Whitty and Vallance that got us deeper into this mess in the first place.

I would look at the study first before just casually dismissing it out of hand based on a post summarizing a news article about it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 25, 2020, 02:25:40 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 12:16:48 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 24, 2020, 10:17:13 PM
They can model all they want - but there is no way the thing was here spreading to half the population since mid Jan without a corresponding exponential curve in hospital submissions and deaths tracking from that time period.

A virus simply doesn't selectively pick out good carriers that won't succumb early so it can spread better. That's just not the way it works - at all.

Oxford is a serious university in most respects. However, I find it difficult to believe this. If a large proportion of people had the virus, then a proportion of those would need hospitalisation and sooner or later ICU and somebody would have noticed.

Depends what the incidence rate for serious symptoms is.
We need to clarify this quickly
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 25, 2020, 07:13:12 AM
https://www.gov.ie/en/service/be74d3-covid-19-pandemic-unemployment-payment/

Can someone interpret this, its for a colleague who needs to go off and quarantine. The company will not pay, lads will have to go unpaid over the period if self quarantining, but it will not be classed as absence(wile good of them).

Can he apply for this? Also he is resident in NI but working and paying taxes in ROI.

Thanks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on March 25, 2020, 07:37:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 24, 2020, 07:39:52 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 24, 2020, 06:06:39 PM
This may seem a strange question.  Even if the government pays the most of the wages to companies' employess and they are closed for , say 6 weeks.  Will that company go out of business (even though there's no cash coming in during that time)?

Or are they in status quo and just start off again where they left off?

Say it's a bar or restaurant. Will be shut for the duration. Costs during shutdown should be manageable. As soon as life returns to normal they will open again.

That still won't be enough to save all businesses.  Most companies take a month to pay their invoices.  With no revenue coming in they may not be able to / won't be paying their suppliers who are looking payment.  Unless, the new norm for this time, is that no customers make payments to any suppliers until we get through this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 25, 2020, 08:14:15 AM
And there you go. Westminster closing down, protecting themselves, but  a lot of us still have to go to work, says it all really
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 25, 2020, 08:47:54 AM
I would seriously hope these pricks are working remotely. Even in the face of such circumstances they still give no shites about anyone but themselves.

Really iif or when we come out of this something needs to be done about this government >:(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 25, 2020, 09:09:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2020, 01:36:54 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 24, 2020, 10:17:13 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 24, 2020, 09:10:08 PM
Saw a link to an article in the FT there regarding a study done by Oxford University. They're saying that 50% of the UK already have it or have had it. They also said it has been around in the uk since mid January. If that's the case the lockdown won't be as long as first thought. They also think only 1 in 1000 will require hospital care as a high percentage are getting very little symptoms.

That study is bullshit. Doesn't pass the sniff test at all.

They can model all they want - but there is no way the thing was here spreading to half the population since mid Jan without a corresponding exponential curve in hospital submissions and deaths tracking from that time period.

A virus simply doesn't selectively pick out good carriers that won't succumb early so it can spread better. That's just not the way it works - at all.


I agree that anti-body tests are essential, but that is as far as I agree with Gupta. If initial anti-body testing does start to produce the kind of returns that supports their hypothesis, then I'll pay attention. But not a minute before. It was the inept modelling assumptions of Whitty and Vallance that got us deeper into this mess in the first place.

I would look at the study first before just casually dismissing it out of hand based on a post summarizing a news article about it.

I always find it strange that people are prepared to believe all the armageddon stuff but as soon as something more positive comes along its dismissed. Not targetting anyone on here im surrounded by ones at the minute happy to read all the bad stuff then ignore any of the better forecasts. Like who knows really...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 25, 2020, 09:23:01 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 25, 2020, 12:01:49 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 24, 2020, 11:54:18 PM
Not sure if it should be here or the WTF thread but Conor McGregor going on a seemingly coked up rant to the Covid task force talking about "my nation" and  "Vice Admiral Mellet" is right up there with the weirdest shit I've seen in my time... would it class as meta??

Anyway we'll be grand now the Notorious has cleared it up!

Bonkers!!

While he isn't wrong there is an increasingly annoying arrogance about him that is becoming unbearable these days.

No pontifications from Bono or Geldoff??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 25, 2020, 09:27:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2020, 01:36:54 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 24, 2020, 10:17:13 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 24, 2020, 09:10:08 PM
Saw a link to an article in the FT there regarding a study done by Oxford University. They're saying that 50% of the UK already have it or have had it. They also said it has been around in the uk since mid January. If that's the case the lockdown won't be as long as first thought. They also think only 1 in 1000 will require hospital care as a high percentage are getting very little symptoms.

That study is bullshit. Doesn't pass the sniff test at all.

They can model all they want - but there is no way the thing was here spreading to half the population since mid Jan without a corresponding exponential curve in hospital submissions and deaths tracking from that time period.

A virus simply doesn't selectively pick out good carriers that won't succumb early so it can spread better. That's just not the way it works - at all.


I agree that anti-body tests are essential, but that is as far as I agree with Gupta. If initial anti-body testing does start to produce the kind of returns that supports their hypothesis, then I'll pay attention. But not a minute before. It was the inept modelling assumptions of Whitty and Vallance that got us deeper into this mess in the first place.

I would look at the study first before just casually dismissing it out of hand based on a post summarizing a news article about it.

I will read it fully later but I have to agree those conclusions seem odd. I presume they give a reason why the virus is with us 2 months yet no one died initially and now suddenly loads of people die. Or did people die and just go unreported for Covid and were treated as having standard Pneumonia?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 09:35:17 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2020, 01:36:54 AM
I would look at the study first before just casually dismissing it out of hand based on a post summarizing a news article about it.

I didn't base my opinion on Lennys post!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 09:40:03 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2020, 02:25:40 AM
Depends what the incidence rate for serious symptoms is.
We need to clarify this quickly

But it doesn't really.

For it to ramp up as early as they claim, and for it to have infected half the population then we'd have seen several things:

1. Admissions to hospital of many more with symptoms far earlier in 2020
2. Admissions to hospital of many more people with symptoms, far earlier in 2020 with no obvious trace to travellers (i.e. community transmission)
3. Far more deaths.

None of the history of the parameters, "number of cases", "number of cases from travel vs. number of cases from community transmission" and "number of deaths from COVID" align with their theory. Plot them up vs. time and it does not align with their timescales. At all.

In the absence of anti-body tests, which would prove it either way, nothing is backing their argument.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 25, 2020, 09:42:37 AM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 25, 2020, 09:09:41 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 25, 2020, 01:36:54 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 24, 2020, 10:17:13 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 24, 2020, 09:10:08 PM
Saw a link to an article in the FT there regarding a study done by Oxford University. They're saying that 50% of the UK already have it or have had it. They also said it has been around in the uk since mid January. If that's the case the lockdown won't be as long as first thought. They also think only 1 in 1000 will require hospital care as a high percentage are getting very little symptoms.

That study is bullshit. Doesn't pass the sniff test at all.

They can model all they want - but there is no way the thing was here spreading to half the population since mid Jan without a corresponding exponential curve in hospital submissions and deaths tracking from that time period.

A virus simply doesn't selectively pick out good carriers that won't succumb early so it can spread better. That's just not the way it works - at all.


I agree that anti-body tests are essential, but that is as far as I agree with Gupta. If initial anti-body testing does start to produce the kind of returns that supports their hypothesis, then I'll pay attention. But not a minute before. It was the inept modelling assumptions of Whitty and Vallance that got us deeper into this mess in the first place.

I would look at the study first before just casually dismissing it out of hand based on a post summarizing a news article about it.

I always find it strange that people are prepared to believe all the armageddon stuff but as soon as something more positive comes along its dismissed. Not targetting anyone on here im surrounded by ones at the minute happy to read all the bad stuff then ignore any of the better forecasts. Like who knows really...

All too true. Too many 'experts' and really nobody knows what is happening or will happen as every country is different.

A lot of experts on here too!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 25, 2020, 09:46:17 AM
Yeah far too many experts and nothing but bad bad news. It is clearly horrendously bad but someone I know messaged our whatsapp group this morning to say he has now known 10 people with it who have been ok.

As I say it is clearly very very bad and getting worse but there are some positive stories too.

Part of me would believe what those oxford researchers say too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 09:56:01 AM
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oxmu2rwsnhi9j9c/Draft-COVID-19-Model%20(13).pdf?dl=0

Here it is by the way.

Their big assumption is that only 1% or 0.1% of population were at severe risk to the disease - and that only a subset of those would be admitted to hospital and a further subset of those would die.
[i.e. the ~1% mortality rate applies to that 1% or 0.1% of the population, excluding the other 99% or 99.9%]

We've seen healthy young die in China. We've seen healthy young on ventilators here. Plenty of young and healthy have died in Italy without underlying conditions. Even more have been admitted to hospital. The evidence does not support the basis of those not deemed vulnerable not requiring hospital treatment.

They are, in my opinion, making misinterpretations of the references they are using for the assumption above and making a massive leap to nowhere as a result.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 25, 2020, 10:08:20 AM
2 out of 10 who get it are in trouble. That's as simple as it is. That's not a mortality rate but the bigger strain the health services are under then the closer the rate moves to those 2 out of 10.

8 out of 10 will be fine.

No one can be 100% sure whether they will fall into the 8 or the 2.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 25, 2020, 10:15:50 AM
A Spar in Belfast is selling toilet rolls for a pound each.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 25, 2020, 10:17:54 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 09:56:01 AM
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oxmu2rwsnhi9j9c/Draft-COVID-19-Model%20(13).pdf?dl=0

Here it is by the way.

Their big assumption is that only 1% or 0.1% of population were at severe risk to the disease - and that only a subset of those would be admitted to hospital and a further subset of those would die.
[i.e. the ~1% mortality rate applies to that 1% or 0.1% of the population, excluding the other 99% or 99.9%]

We've seen healthy young die in China. We've seen healthy young on ventilators here. Plenty of young and healthy have died in Italy without underlying conditions. Even more have been admitted to hospital. The evidence does not support the basis of those not deemed vulnerable not requiring hospital treatment.

They are, in my opinion, making misinterpretations of the references they are using for the assumption above and making a massive leap to nowhere as a result.
The plural of anecdote is not data. How many deaths under 40 for example and are they statistically significant ? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 25, 2020, 10:25:03 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 25, 2020, 10:15:50 AM
A Spar in Belfast is selling toilet rolls for a pound each.

I saw a great idea in one of the scandanavian countries I think it was. One pack of toilet rolls normal price, 2 packs and the price went up significantly (like to about 80 quid). I think that should be done here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 25, 2020, 10:35:00 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 25, 2020, 10:25:03 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 25, 2020, 10:15:50 AM
A Spar in Belfast is selling toilet rolls for a pound each.

I saw a great idea in one of the scandanavian countries I think it was. One pack of toilet rolls normal price, 2 packs and the price went up significantly (like to about 80 quid). I think that should be done here.

Either a publicity stunt or a hoax. A small child would work around it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 10:38:11 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2020, 10:17:54 AM
The plural of anecdote is not data. How many deaths under 40 for example and are they statistically significant ?

Not insignificant. Mortality rates for 30-39:
China: 0.2%
Italy: 0.3%

It looks like if your under 30, your gonna survive, however that does not mean you escape hospitalisation. See table 1 here for SK data which shows hospitalisation across all age groups:
https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30150-8/fulltext


But note, the point is not about under 40s - unless you believe 99% of the population is under 40 year old. It doesn't align with the oxford study.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 10:41:52 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 25, 2020, 09:46:17 AM
Yeah far too many experts and nothing but bad bad news. It is clearly horrendously bad but someone I know messaged our whatsapp group this morning to say he has now known 10 people with it who have been ok.

As I say it is clearly very very bad and getting worse but there are some positive stories too.

Part of me would believe what those oxford researchers say too.

The guy from our club that got it is fine, positive story
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 25, 2020, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 10:38:11 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2020, 10:17:54 AM
The plural of anecdote is not data. How many deaths under 40 for example and are they statistically significant ?

Not insignificant. Mortality rates for 30-39:
China: 0.2%
Italy: 0.3%

It looks like if your under 30, your gonna survive, however that does not mean you escape hospitalisation. See table 1 here for SK data which shows hospitalisation across all age groups:
https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30150-8/fulltext


But note, the point is not about under 40s - unless you believe 99% of the population is under 40 year old. It doesn't align with the oxford study.
There are lots of gaps at the moment. Did the under 40s belong to any specific risk group or is it a population wide mortality  loading?

Most countries haven't got far measuring the extent of the virus so there are a lot of assumptions being used.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 11:01:10 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 25, 2020, 09:46:17 AM
Yeah far too many experts and nothing but bad bad news. It is clearly horrendously bad but someone I know messaged our whatsapp group this morning to say he has now known 10 people with it who have been ok.

People who knew they have it or people who thought they had it?
In the ROI only 6% of people tested recently had the virus, the rest presumably thought they had it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on March 25, 2020, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 10:38:11 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2020, 10:17:54 AM
The plural of anecdote is not data. How many deaths under 40 for example and are they statistically significant ?

Not insignificant. Mortality rates for 30-39:
China: 0.2%
Italy: 0.3%

It looks like if your under 30, your gonna survive, however that does not mean you escape hospitalisation. See table 1 here for SK data which shows hospitalisation across all age groups:
https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30150-8/fulltext


But note, the point is not about under 40s - unless you believe 99% of the population is under 40 year old. It doesn't align with the oxford study.
The article is claiming most people who get it don't know they have it so they are not being counted in the numbers.

e.g.

1000 people under 40 have Corona Virus don't know they have it as they have very mild symptoms and don't see a doctor.  All recover.
1000 people with underlying health issues are tested and 100 have it and 5 die.

5/100 = 5% will be the recorded death rate of those tested.

5/1100 = 0.45% will be the death rate if all the other people who are not being tested where being tested.

Interesting article below I think. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8138675/PETER-HITCHENS-shutting-Britain-REALLY-right-answer.html

I believe a significant proportion of people are silent in their doubt about the proportionality of the approach being taken for fear of people saying they are 'siding with the nazis'.  People like Alex Ferguson and Harry Redknapp going to Cheltenham with 100 thousand other people or Stanley Johnston going to the pub are more or less saying they don't believe they are at significant risk.  The last time I was in the butchers a couple of days half the people in the queue looked like they were pensionable age.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2020, 11:32:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 10:41:52 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 25, 2020, 09:46:17 AM
Yeah far too many experts and nothing but bad bad news. It is clearly horrendously bad but someone I know messaged our whatsapp group this morning to say he has now known 10 people with it who have been ok.

As I say it is clearly very very bad and getting worse but there are some positive stories too.

Part of me would believe what those oxford researchers say too.

The guy from our club that got it is fine, positive story

Great to hear - we need more positive news like this coming. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 25, 2020, 11:55:19 AM
Walk out in Moy Park?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 25, 2020, 12:01:09 PM
The research done by Oxford in my opinion is probably right. The virus has 14 days to spread without any  noticeable symptoms and went undetected for a while.

If this started in mid November as claimed then there is every chance this virus could have made its way to Europe a lot earlier. The reason we dont see large numbers earlier if because it is had similar symptoms to the flu, there wasn't an awareness of the virus, just look at how many people have reported that their doctors were saying it was just the flu and to go home and take it easy.

China's population is out of control so we are very likely to see a domino effect. Each day one person is passing the virus on to another 3-5 people on average without knowing it. They are doing this every single day for over 2 weeks and then the person who they infect is doing the same etc.

1 person could potentially be infecting 70 people give or take. Some will be kissing their children goodnight or holding their hands. They then go into school and pass it on through their class/school. They then go home to their parents and they do the same thing.

As for reported cases - how can they be reported when nobody knows they are looking for it and there is no research to guide it? Doctors are highly likely to dismiss it as flu when they aren't aware of the disease being in the population. The deaths that are caused because of Covid 19 are probably being put down to flu.

Don't be fooled by the numbers, they use the term 'confirmed cases' for a reason but do not make the mistake of using it as an indicator of how many people are infected.

Hate to be the party pooper but over here in England I am not hearing anything positive. My sister works in A&E and they are being given instructions a lot of people won't like.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: MayoBuck on March 25, 2020, 12:12:08 PM
The death toll in Spain has overtaken China now. 738 confirmed in the last 24 hours.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 25, 2020, 12:31:57 PM
Could be something in that oxford study . It just seems so disproportionate the amount of public eye people who have tested positive, aul Charlie across the water has it now I read
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 25, 2020, 12:48:30 PM
If the Oxford survey is correct, then surely hospitals would have been overrun in January or earlier, and we would have heard of a bad flu going round where young people were struggling to breathe without oxygen?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 12:53:59 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 25, 2020, 12:48:30 PM
If the Oxford survey is correct, then surely hospitals would have been overrun in January or earlier, and we would have heard of a bad flu going round where young people were struggling to breathe without oxygen?

Also if this was in England for months, why is England not in a similar situation to Italy or Spain at this stage?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on March 25, 2020, 01:01:06 PM
Charles could be out lived by the queen now. He is no spring chicken at 71.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 25, 2020, 01:07:28 PM
Regarding old people, I guess it is the same reason why people aren't requiring hospital intervention for the flu. They recover from it.  Although I am a fan of preventing the spread to old people, when they get it, it doesn't automatically mean they will need hospital intervention.

The death rates amongst the elderly population are high in China due to numerous factors such as smoking, bad hygeine, pollution etc. In Italy they have a high percentage of elderly people and people are more likely to go about their daily lives and mix with people. In England and Ireland people are more likely to stay in around January. Then of course you have healthcare professionals who were not even aware of the virus and put it down to flu and when and where people need intervention then they got it (young or old). As we now know about the virus more people are going to be diagnosed and the lack of treatment options may mean patients have to be kept in hospital

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 25, 2020, 02:04:54 PM
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/northern-ireland-may-call-on-irish-army-for-help-during-coronavirus-outbreak-says-swann-39073988.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: red hander on March 25, 2020, 02:17:41 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on March 25, 2020, 01:01:06 PM
Charles could be out lived by the queen now. He is no spring chicken at 71.

His paedo brother must be sweating like a pig... Or maybe not
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 25, 2020, 02:37:03 PM
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/a-very-serious-constitutional-problem-politicians-cannot-pass-any-new-laws-after-sunday-39075003.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 25, 2020, 02:50:32 PM
Off licenses are on the essential list......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 25, 2020, 03:38:00 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 25, 2020, 02:50:32 PM
Off licenses are on the essential list......

Joke. Just deliver if needed, they can't be trusted to protect staff.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 03:50:10 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 25, 2020, 03:38:00 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 25, 2020, 02:50:32 PM
Off licenses are on the essential list......

Joke. Just deliver if needed, they can't be trusted to protect staff.

The staff can wash their hands in Smirnoff Red Label.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 25, 2020, 03:55:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 03:50:10 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 25, 2020, 03:38:00 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 25, 2020, 02:50:32 PM
Off licenses are on the essential list......

Joke. Just deliver if needed, they can't be trusted to protect staff.

The staff can wash their hands in Smirnoff Red Label.

Lol. Only 40% though
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 04:09:48 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on March 25, 2020, 12:12:08 PM
The death toll in Spain has overtaken China now. 738 confirmed in the last 24 hours.

Spain may turn out to be the worst.

Spain has announced it is buying €432m of medical equipment from China as it tries to contend with a surge in hospitalisations caused by the coronavirus, which has killed more than 700 people in the country in the last 24 hours. Salvador Illa, health minister, said the purchase included more than 550m masks, for both health professionals and patients, 5.5m tests and 950 respirators.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 04:33:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 04:09:48 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on March 25, 2020, 12:12:08 PM
The death toll in Spain has overtaken China now. 738 confirmed in the last 24 hours.

Spain may turn out to be the worst.

Spain has announced it is buying €432m of medical equipment from China as it tries to contend with a surge in hospitalisations caused by the coronavirus, which has killed more than 700 people in the country in the last 24 hours. Salvador Illa, health minister, said the purchase included more than 550m masks, for both health professionals and patients, 5.5m tests and 950 respirators.
china profiting from the virus selling medical supplies all over the world , 1.3 billion people in China and they have less dead than Spain? Something fishy there either they are lying or something more sinister, countries will have to learn to be self reliant in the future is the lesson to be learned from this .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on March 25, 2020, 04:38:51 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 24, 2020, 09:29:15 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on March 24, 2020, 09:22:31 PM
To date:
Britain 417 deaths
Island of Ireland 12 deaths

Britain has 10 times the population of Ireland, yet has 35 times the deaths .... they're getting badly hit across the water.
Not entirely a fair comparison as the Brits are mostly getting nailed in London, which isn't surprising as a global hub with a high population density.

Wales is getting hit pretty hard too, 22 dead now; population <2m I think?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2020, 04:40:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 04:33:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 04:09:48 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on March 25, 2020, 12:12:08 PM
The death toll in Spain has overtaken China now. 738 confirmed in the last 24 hours.

Spain may turn out to be the worst.

Spain has announced it is buying €432m of medical equipment from China as it tries to contend with a surge in hospitalisations caused by the coronavirus, which has killed more than 700 people in the country in the last 24 hours. Salvador Illa, health minister, said the purchase included more than 550m masks, for both health professionals and patients, 5.5m tests and 950 respirators.
china profiting from the virus selling medical supplies all over the world , 1.3 billion people in China and they have less dead than Spain? Something fishy there either they are lying or something more sinister, countries will have to learn to be self reliant in the future is the lesson to be learned from this .

Definite fudging of numbers by the Chinese but you have to remember they have a pretty oppressive govt there. Lockdown is / was lockdown. There was no seeing if you'll stick to it, the alternative was some gulag near Mongolia if you were lucky.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 25, 2020, 04:40:57 PM
7 here now it seems!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 25, 2020, 04:50:31 PM
2 today... I must have missed the second one yesterday.

Ramping up :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 04:53:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 04:33:00 PM
china profiting from the virus selling medical supplies all over the world , 1.3 billion people in China and they have less dead than Spain? Something fishy there either they are lying or something more sinister, countries will have to learn to be self reliant in the future is the lesson to be learned from this .

f**k up you stupid grade A w**ker.

Do you really think they decided to stop their whole economy for a couple of months - costing hundreds of billions if not more than a trillion USD - so they could sell a few hundred million USD worth of medical equipment around the world?


I know you've a long history of posting stupid MAGA shite - but never go full retard you fuckwit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 05:08:38 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 04:53:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 04:33:00 PM
china profiting from the virus selling medical supplies all over the world , 1.3 billion people in China and they have less dead than Spain? Something fishy there either they are lying or something more sinister, countries will have to learn to be self reliant in the future is the lesson to be learned from this .

f**k up you stupid grade A w**ker.

Do you really think they decided to stop their whole economy for a couple of months - costing hundreds of billions if not more than a trillion USD - so they could sell a few hundred million USD worth of medical equipment around the world?


I know you've a long history of posting stupid MAGA shite - but never go full retard you fuckwit.
you are jumping to a lot of conclusions there and personal abuse is not permitted on this site .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 05:09:04 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on March 25, 2020, 04:38:51 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 24, 2020, 09:29:15 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on March 24, 2020, 09:22:31 PM
To date:
Britain 417 deaths
Island of Ireland 12 deaths

Britain has 10 times the population of Ireland, yet has 35 times the deaths .... they're getting badly hit across the water.
Not entirely a fair comparison as the Brits are mostly getting nailed in London, which isn't surprising as a global hub with a high population density.

Wales is getting hit pretty hard too, 22 dead now; population <2m I think?

Transfers from sheep... too soon?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 25, 2020, 05:09:24 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2020, 04:40:26 PM

Definite fudging of numbers by the Chinese but you have to remember they have a pretty oppressive govt there. Lockdown is / was lockdown. There was no seeing if you'll stick to it, the alternative was some gulag near Mongolia if you were lucky.

Chances are the victims, millions of them, were sent to gulags, or worse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 05:16:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 05:08:38 PM
you are jumping to a lot of conclusions there and personal abuse is not permitted on this site .

I'm jumping to conclusions? From the gibbering idiot that thinks the Chinese concocted this to make money?

Any personal abuse you get you deserve for thinking like that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 25, 2020, 05:28:33 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 05:16:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 05:08:38 PM
you are jumping to a lot of conclusions there and personal abuse is not permitted on this site .

I'm jumping to conclusions? From the gibbering idiot that thinks the Chinese concocted this to make money?

Any personal abuse you get you deserve for thinking like that.

He never said or implied that though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 05:39:51 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 05:16:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 05:08:38 PM
you are jumping to a lot of conclusions there and personal abuse is not permitted on this site .

I'm jumping to conclusions? From the gibbering idiot that thinks the Chinese concocted this to make money?

Any personal abuse you get you deserve for thinking like that.
where did I say they concocted this to make money ? Are they selling medical supplies all over the globe ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 05:53:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 05:39:51 PM
where did I say they concocted this to make money ? Are they selling medical supplies all over the globe ?

Quotechina profiting from the virus selling medical supplies all over the world , 1.3 billion people in China and they have less dead than Spain? Something fishy there either they are lying or something more sinister, countries will have to learn to be self reliant in the future is the lesson to be learned from this .

What else does more sinister mean?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 25, 2020, 05:57:11 PM
You deliberately missed the middle bit there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 05:58:14 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 05:53:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 05:39:51 PM
where did I say they concocted this to make money ? Are they selling medical supplies all over the globe ?

Quotechina profiting from the virus selling medical supplies all over the world , 1.3 billion people in China and they have less dead than Spain? Something fishy there either they are lying or something more sinister, countries will have to learn to be self reliant in the future is the lesson to be learned from this .

What else does more sinister mean?
did u answer my questions
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Art Mc Crory’s Sofa on March 25, 2020, 06:03:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 05:39:51 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 05:16:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 05:08:38 PM
you are jumping to a lot of conclusions there and personal abuse is not permitted on this site .

I'm jumping to conclusions? From the gibbering idiot that thinks the Chinese concocted this to make money?

Any personal abuse you get you deserve for thinking like that.
where did I say they concocted this to make money ? Are they selling medical supplies all over the globe ?

You clearly implied it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 06:06:00 PM
Quote from: five points on March 25, 2020, 05:57:11 PM
You deliberately missed the middle bit there.

The note about lying can only pertain to that. What else can they do with numbers but lie about them?


What is the more sinister about?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 06:07:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 05:58:14 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 05:53:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 05:39:51 PM
where did I say they concocted this to make money ? Are they selling medical supplies all over the globe ?

Quotechina profiting from the virus selling medical supplies all over the world , 1.3 billion people in China and they have less dead than Spain? Something fishy there either they are lying or something more sinister, countries will have to learn to be self reliant in the future is the lesson to be learned from this .

What else does more sinister mean?
did u answer my questions

What else does more sinister mean?

Since lying about number is a deliberate act and you've noted that separately - what are you suggesting they've done deliberately that is not fiddling the numbers?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 25, 2020, 06:16:35 PM
With most people stuck at home and sport suit down there is SFA happening anywhere. There is very little news in the newspapers either. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 06:47:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 06:07:27 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 05:58:14 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 05:53:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 05:39:51 PM
where did I say they concocted this to make money ? Are they selling medical supplies all over the globe ?

Quotechina profiting from the virus selling medical supplies all over the world , 1.3 billion people in China and they have less dead than Spain? Something fishy there either they are lying or something more sinister, countries will have to learn to be self reliant in the future is the lesson to be learned from this .

What else does more sinister mean?
did u answer my questions

What else does more sinister mean?

Since lying about number is a deliberate act and you've noted that separately - what are you suggesting they've done deliberately that is not fiddling the numbers?
do you think they worried about the virus spreading around the globe or did enough to make sure this didn't happen , were they truthful with the information they had ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 25, 2020, 07:47:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2020, 06:16:35 PM
With most people stuck at home and sport suit down there is SFA happening anywhere. There is very little news in the newspapers either.
I still buy 2 papers a day but it is so obvious how far old media is behind social media in such a fast moving situation, wasting my money tbh. Irish News is on thin ice atm!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 25, 2020, 07:56:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 06:47:20 PMdo you think they worried about the virus spreading around the globe

Yes. Chinese made products have to be sold around the globe for the Chinese economy to prosper.


Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 06:47:20 PMor did enough to make sure this didn't happen

After the initial screw up by the local government in Wuhan, as soon as central government realised what was happening, it was jumped on. It was jumped on in a way no Western government has yet had the balls to replicate.

Quote from: Gmac on March 25, 2020, 06:47:20 PMwere they truthful with the information they had ?

Mostly. There are number peer-reviewed publications coming out of China from the middle of January onward.

They are certainly as truthful as any of the bull coming out of our free press and democratic governments.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on March 25, 2020, 07:56:57 PM
235 new cases with unfortunately 2 more dead today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: playwiththewind1st on March 25, 2020, 08:33:55 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 25, 2020, 07:47:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2020, 06:16:35 PM
With most people stuck at home and sport suit down there is SFA happening anywhere. There is very little news in the newspapers either.
I still buy 2 papers a day but it is so obvious how far old media is behind social media in such a fast moving situation, wasting my money tbh. Irish News is on thin ice atm!

Good time for one of them ould 'MLA expenses scandal' stories that they regularly trot out, when there's no news to report on. FOI legislation was specifically enacted to enable journalists to put in 100s of stupid questions to organisations, for free.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 25, 2020, 08:37:50 PM
Quote from: playwiththewind1st on March 25, 2020, 08:33:55 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 25, 2020, 07:47:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2020, 06:16:35 PM
With most people stuck at home and sport suit down there is SFA happening anywhere. There is very little news in the newspapers either.
I still buy 2 papers a day but it is so obvious how far old media is behind social media in such a fast moving situation, wasting my money tbh. Irish News is on thin ice atm!

Good time for one of them ould 'MLA expenses scandal' stories that they regularly trot out, when there's no news to report on. FOI legislation was specifically enacted to enable journalists to put in 100s of stupid questions to organisations, for free.

FOI is a source of endless mundane stories sold as if they were sensational. "X spent on Y" is the usual format. Find some expense that sounds like it could be frivolous, find out how much was spent on it, add up the amount of time until you get it into a decent sized figure and before you know it you've got a headline like "£6,000 spent on finger food" as the headline on a story in which there were 12 events over the course of a year with £500 worth of snacks laid on for a crowd of a hundred people each time. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 25, 2020, 08:43:23 PM
37 year old UK deputy Ambassador to Hungary dies of CV

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/25/british-diplomat-dies-of-coronavirus-in-hungary?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ball Hopper on March 25, 2020, 10:01:12 PM
Is there a map of Ireland showing cases by county?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 25, 2020, 10:02:48 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 25, 2020, 07:47:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2020, 06:16:35 PM
With most people stuck at home and sport suit down there is SFA happening anywhere. There is very little news in the newspapers either.
I still buy 2 papers a day but it is so obvious how far old media is behind social media in such a fast moving situation, wasting my money tbh. Irish News is on thin ice atm!

I made a New Year's resolution to stop buying the Irish News - it's going downhill badly.  Nothing but ful page ads and holiday pull outs.  Last straw,was they kept putting only one staple into it.  Cutting costs everywhere.

They must be, like all papers, getting squeezed by the net.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 25, 2020, 10:06:51 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 25, 2020, 10:02:48 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 25, 2020, 07:47:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2020, 06:16:35 PM
With most people stuck at home and sport suit down there is SFA happening anywhere. There is very little news in the newspapers either.
I still buy 2 papers a day but it is so obvious how far old media is behind social media in such a fast moving situation, wasting my money tbh. Irish News is on thin ice atm!

I made a New Year's resolution to stop buying the Irish News - it's going downhill badly.  Nothing but ful page ads and holiday pull outs.  Last straw,was they kept putting only one staple into it.  Cutting costs everywhere.

They must be, like all papers, getting squeezed by the net.

The problem with newspapers in the modern world is by the time they get the stories out and printed, it's old news.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on March 25, 2020, 10:22:20 PM
Online subscription is £15 for 4 weeks , which is reasonable value and saves going to the shop on a daily basis.  Agree some of the quality is poor, not enough in depth stories . One recent positive is the two day story /  coverage of GAA people  e.g Sean mc greevy this week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 25, 2020, 10:32:58 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 25, 2020, 10:02:48 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 25, 2020, 07:47:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2020, 06:16:35 PM
With most people stuck at home and sport suit down there is SFA happening anywhere. There is very little news in the newspapers either.
I still buy 2 papers a day but it is so obvious how far old media is behind social media in such a fast moving situation, wasting my money tbh. Irish News is on thin ice atm!

I made a New Year's resolution to stop buying the Irish News - it's going downhill badly.  Nothing but ful page ads and holiday pull outs.  Last straw,was they kept putting only one staple into it.  Cutting costs everywhere.

They must be, like all papers, getting squeezed by the net.

In my day there was no staple.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: knockitdown on March 25, 2020, 10:33:28 PM
Why is Germany getting off relatively light in comparison to other big European countries?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 10:41:06 PM
Quote from: knockitdown on March 25, 2020, 10:33:28 PM
Why is Germany getting off relatively light in comparison to other big European countries?

Their fatality rate is about the same as ROI because they are testing a  lot of people and their case numbers have some basis in reality.
The UK has supposedly less cases, but two and a half times the fatalities because they do not count the cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 25, 2020, 10:50:57 PM
That's correct , but UK, France and other nations have asked
the Germans about this, and wanted to know did their high number of ventilators play a part. The Germans informed them that was not the case as they only had a small percentage of ventilators taken up but they expected that to play a part in later weeks. They suspected the disparity in death rate was a combination of testing more and also the fact that a lot of their early positive tests were from schools and younger people coming back from skiing in Northern Italy. The very demographic that was fairing better under the virus. They informed them that they fully expected to track the same way as Italy in the next week or two.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 10:55:14 PM
I get the testing and plenty of it. But, the testing  can't stop the spread it will only inform you how many have it and how many don't?

Yes if people know they don't have it then isolate and dig in, but if you are tested early will that help the treatment? Not an expert
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on March 25, 2020, 11:00:39 PM
Quote from: knockitdown on March 25, 2020, 10:33:28 PM
Why is Germany getting off relatively light in comparison to other big European countries?

Most Germans take high doses of Vitamin C, as well as other dietary supplements.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 11:07:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 10:55:14 PM
I get the testing and plenty of it. But, the testing  can't stop the spread it will only inform you how many have it and how many don't?

Yes if people know they don't have it then isolate and dig in, but if you are tested early will that help the treatment? Not an expert

If you test and follow up the contacts and tell them to stay at home then the thing cannot spread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 11:17:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 11:07:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 10:55:14 PM
I get the testing and plenty of it. But, the testing  can't stop the spread it will only inform you how many have it and how many don't?

Yes if people know they don't have it then isolate and dig in, but if you are tested early will that help the treatment? Not an expert

If you test and follow up the contacts and tell them to stay at home then the thing cannot spread.

But are you not just testing people who have symptoms in the south? And if they have it, they have it, and if they were in contact with others they'll  have it.

I'm talking as to why Germany have less fatalities with four times the cases
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 25, 2020, 11:17:50 PM
I think with Germany is they focus testing people while they're alive rather than waste tests on people who are dead. Therefore their death toll could be much higher.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 11:29:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 11:17:34 PM
But are you not just testing people who have symptoms in the south? And if they have it, they have it, and if they were in contact with others they'll  have it.

Exactly. And in the South there are 1200 people tracking down those contacts and getting them tested and telling them to isolate.

QuoteI'm talking as to why Germany have less fatalities with four times the cases

I told you, in the UK they only test you if you end up in the hospital. In  Germany, likely only 1 in 6 of them go to hospital.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 11:38:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 11:29:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 11:17:34 PM
But are you not just testing people who have symptoms in the south? And if they have it, they have it, and if they were in contact with others they'll  have it.

Exactly. And in the South there are 1200 people tracking down those contacts and getting them tested and telling them to isolate.

QuoteI'm talking as to why Germany have less fatalities with four times the cases

I told you, in the UK they only test you if you end up in the hospital. In  Germany, likely only 1 in 6 of them go to hospital.

Self isolation is the best way, that's what will stop it spreading. Let's continue to do that and find a vaccine
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 25, 2020, 11:48:30 PM
3 weeks ago the US had 125 confirmed cases. Today that number is around 65,000 and that nutjob wants the country back to business over Easter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 26, 2020, 12:04:59 AM
Help slow the spread of #COVID19 and identify at risk cases sooner by self-reporting your symptoms daily, even if you feel well  🙏🏼. Download the app

https://covid.joinzoe.com/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 26, 2020, 12:17:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 11:38:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 11:29:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 11:17:34 PM
But are you not just testing people who have symptoms in the south? And if they have it, they have it, and if they were in contact with others they'll  have it.

Exactly. And in the South there are 1200 people tracking down those contacts and getting them tested and telling them to isolate.

QuoteI'm talking as to why Germany have less fatalities with four times the cases

I told you, in the UK they only test you if you end up in the hospital. In  Germany, likely only 1 in 6 of them go to hospital.

Self isolation is the best way, that's what will stop it spreading. Let's continue to do that and find a vaccine

Testing ensures  that people with it are isolated, while allows the rests carry on. Keeping everyone isolated for another year will wreck the country.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: WT4E on March 26, 2020, 12:31:31 AM
WHO commending governments for employin lockdowns etc as this buys invaluable time. But urge them to now move to the next stage which is crucial.... Test test test.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 12:34:58 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 26, 2020, 12:17:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 11:38:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 11:29:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 11:17:34 PM
But are you not just testing people who have symptoms in the south? And if they have it, they have it, and if they were in contact with others they'll  have it.

Exactly. And in the South there are 1200 people tracking down those contacts and getting them tested and telling them to isolate.

QuoteI'm talking as to why Germany have less fatalities with four times the cases

I told you, in the UK they only test you if you end up in the hospital. In  Germany, likely only 1 in 6 of them go to hospital.

Self isolation is the best way, that's what will stop it spreading. Let's continue to do that and find a vaccine

Testing ensures  that people with it are isolated, while allows the rests carry on. Keeping everyone isolated for another year will wreck the country.

It won't recover from this for a long time! Isolate for 4/5 weeks relax it then bring in Another lockdown but get those test kits out hopefully that'll buy time enough to get enough beds ventilators available 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 26, 2020, 12:42:31 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 26, 2020, 12:17:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 11:38:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 11:29:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 11:17:34 PM
But are you not just testing people who have symptoms in the south? And if they have it, they have it, and if they were in contact with others they'll  have it.

Exactly. And in the South there are 1200 people tracking down those contacts and getting them tested and telling them to isolate.

QuoteI'm talking as to why Germany have less fatalities with four times the cases

I told you, in the UK they only test you if you end up in the hospital. In  Germany, likely only 1 in 6 of them go to hospital.

Self isolation is the best way, that's what will stop it spreading. Let's continue to do that and find a vaccine

Testing ensures  that people with it are isolated, while allows the rests carry on. Keeping everyone isolated for another year will wreck the country.

Some companies can get to f**k. I've been forced to take a sabbatical.

Signed up to support NHS on phones from home. Think everyone is going to have to put there hands to the wheel when they can.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 12:52:06 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 26, 2020, 12:42:31 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 26, 2020, 12:17:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 11:38:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 11:29:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 11:17:34 PM
But are you not just testing people who have symptoms in the south? And if they have it, they have it, and if they were in contact with others they'll  have it.

Exactly. And in the South there are 1200 people tracking down those contacts and getting them tested and telling them to isolate.

QuoteI'm talking as to why Germany have less fatalities with four times the cases

I told you, in the UK they only test you if you end up in the hospital. In  Germany, likely only 1 in 6 of them go to hospital.

Self isolation is the best way, that's what will stop it spreading. Let's continue to do that and find a vaccine

Testing ensures  that people with it are isolated, while allows the rests carry on. Keeping everyone isolated for another year will wreck the country.

Some companies can get to f**k. I've been forced to take a sabbatical.

Signed up to support NHS on phones from home. Think everyone is going to have to put there hands to the wheel when they can.
Good for you, if available I'd love to help with that type of thing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 26, 2020, 02:23:10 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 26, 2020, 12:17:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 11:38:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 11:29:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 11:17:34 PM
But are you not just testing people who have symptoms in the south? And if they have it, they have it, and if they were in contact with others they'll  have it.

Exactly. And in the South there are 1200 people tracking down those contacts and getting them tested and telling them to isolate.

QuoteI'm talking as to why Germany have less fatalities with four times the cases

I told you, in the UK they only test you if you end up in the hospital. In  Germany, likely only 1 in 6 of them go to hospital.

Self isolation is the best way, that's what will stop it spreading. Let's continue to do that and find a vaccine

Testing ensures  that people with it are isolated, while allows the rests carry on. Keeping everyone isolated for another year will wreck the country.
It is like a war.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 26, 2020, 02:56:50 AM
I have heard coca cola factories have remained open and are not implementing any protective measures
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 26, 2020, 03:00:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 12:52:06 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 26, 2020, 12:42:31 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 26, 2020, 12:17:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 11:38:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 11:29:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 11:17:34 PM
But are you not just testing people who have symptoms in the south? And if they have it, they have it, and if they were in contact with others they'll  have it.

Exactly. And in the South there are 1200 people tracking down those contacts and getting them tested and telling them to isolate.

QuoteI'm talking as to why Germany have less fatalities with four times the cases

I told you, in the UK they only test you if you end up in the hospital. In  Germany, likely only 1 in 6 of them go to hospital.

Self isolation is the best way, that's what will stop it spreading. Let's continue to do that and find a vaccine

Testing ensures  that people with it are isolated, while allows the rests carry on. Keeping everyone isolated for another year will wreck the country.

Some companies can get to f**k. I've been forced to take a sabbatical.

Signed up to support NHS on phones from home. Think everyone is going to have to put there hands to the wheel when they can.
Good for you, if available I'd love to help with that type of thing

https://www.england.nhs.uk/2020/03/your-nhs-needs-you-nhs-call-for-volunteer-army/

Go ahead if you can. Not to sure how it works after registration  but it would be a bit shite if people who are alone and self isolating didn't have anyone to talk to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 26, 2020, 06:30:29 AM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on March 25, 2020, 10:01:12 PM
Is there a map of Ireland showing cases by county?

Yes. The Irish govt have been first class on this. For a comparatively small country they have done a really good job in many areas .

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/45aa11-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-wednesday-2/

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2020, 07:38:07 AM
I'm looking forward to any politician trying to state that somehow we are better off in the union after this shambles. What a load of horseshit!

Never underestimate how unbelievably incompetent the NI executive are. Waiting around and taking the lead from Westminster. Even the like of Naomi Long (who I would have had great time for) talking nonsense and being totally reactive throughout.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 26, 2020, 07:57:45 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2020, 07:38:07 AM
I'm looking forward to any politician trying to state that somehow we are better off in the union after this shambles. What a load of horseshit!

Never underestimate how unbelievably incompetent the NI executive are. Waiting around and taking the lead from Westminster. Even the like of Naomi Long (who I would have had great time for) talking nonsense and being totally reactive throughout.

Her main point yesterday was getting offies back open
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2020, 08:05:50 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 26, 2020, 07:57:45 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2020, 07:38:07 AM
I'm looking forward to any politician trying to state that somehow we are better off in the union after this shambles. What a load of horseshit!

Never underestimate how unbelievably incompetent the NI executive are. Waiting around and taking the lead from Westminster. Even the like of Naomi Long (who I would have had great time for) talking nonsense and being totally reactive throughout.

Her main point yesterday was getting offies back open

I just can't forgive anyone who backed schools being open and trusting the Brits whole initial 'trust the science' approach. That and accusing nationalists of playing political games for wanting schools closed. People won't forget that in the polling booth when this disaster is over!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 26, 2020, 08:19:12 AM
Naomi has been in bed ill up until quite recently, I don't recall much if any input from her tbh?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: redzone on March 26, 2020, 08:28:49 AM
I'm hearing of a few childminders that are charging between 50 to 100% of there fee until they open up again to secure a childs place for when they open up . I was shocked
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on March 26, 2020, 08:31:47 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 26, 2020, 08:19:12 AM
Naomi has been in bed ill up until quite recently, I don't recall much if any input from her tbh?
Sdlp and sinn fein voted to close the schools, dup, uup and alliance voted to keep them open. I was shocked myself at the time, going against advice of who among others
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2020, 08:35:00 AM
Quote from: ardtole on March 26, 2020, 08:31:47 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 26, 2020, 08:19:12 AM
Naomi has been in bed ill up until quite recently, I don't recall much if any input from her tbh?
Sdlp and sinn fein voted to close the schools, dup, uup and alliance voted to keep them open. I was shocked myself at the time, going against advice of who among others

Yep. She backed the British scientists to the hilt and didn't take the WHO stance on board whatsoever. She'll have to explain that in a few months!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on March 26, 2020, 08:46:21 AM
Quote from: redzone on March 26, 2020, 08:28:49 AM
I'm hearing of a few childminders that are charging between 50 to 100% of there fee until they open up again to secure a childs place for when they open up . I was shocked

There are some businesses doing great things and others are gouging the life out of it. I hope the likes of O'Neills, Dyson and pharma companies like Randox etc are doing what they are doing at a fair rate to cover their costs to keep the show on the road and it is not a massive exercise in profiteering. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyrone08 on March 26, 2020, 08:47:38 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2020, 08:35:00 AM
Quote from: ardtole on March 26, 2020, 08:31:47 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 26, 2020, 08:19:12 AM
Naomi has been in bed ill up until quite recently, I don't recall much if any input from her tbh?
Sdlp and sinn fein voted to close the schools, dup, uup and alliance voted to keep them open. I was shocked myself at the time, going against advice of who among others

Yep. She backed the British scientists to the hilt and didn't take the WHO stance on board whatsoever. She'll have to explain that in a few months!

I used to have time for naomi but no longer. She was the swinging vote that kept the schools open for so long, I know that for a fact. Seen recently on twitter that she was trying to justify herself.

Regardless of your beliefs any idiot that backed keeping schools open need to be punished at the polls.

NI executive should be overhauled as they are the most incompetent bunch of idiots I have every seen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 26, 2020, 09:00:38 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on March 26, 2020, 08:46:21 AM
Quote from: redzone on March 26, 2020, 08:28:49 AM
I'm hearing of a few childminders that are charging between 50 to 100% of there fee until they open up again to secure a childs place for when they open up . I was shocked

There are some businesses doing great things and others are gouging the life out of it. I hope the likes of O'Neills, Dyson and pharma companies like Randox etc are doing what they are doing at a fair rate to cover their costs to keep the show on the road and it is not a massive exercise in profiteering.

Private student accommodation companies billing until the end of June too.. Absolute charlatans!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2020, 09:03:02 AM
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 26, 2020, 08:47:38 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2020, 08:35:00 AM
Quote from: ardtole on March 26, 2020, 08:31:47 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 26, 2020, 08:19:12 AM
Naomi has been in bed ill up until quite recently, I don't recall much if any input from her tbh?
Sdlp and sinn fein voted to close the schools, dup, uup and alliance voted to keep them open. I was shocked myself at the time, going against advice of who among others

Yep. She backed the British scientists to the hilt and didn't take the WHO stance on board whatsoever. She'll have to explain that in a few months!

I used to have time for naomi but no longer. She was the swinging vote that kept the schools open for so long, I know that for a fact. Seen recently on twitter that she was trying to justify herself.

Regardless of your beliefs any idiot that backed keeping schools open need to be punished at the polls.

NI executive should be overhauled as they are the most incompetent bunch of idiots I have every seen.

Amen. What the hell is the point of a devolved govt if you wait for orders from Westminster. Show some bloody foresight and act! Go and get testing kits from Randox or close them down would be a start!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 26, 2020, 09:06:24 AM
They can make their own decisions when it comes to things like off licenses being shut.

(Don't get me wrong a) we can get booze from supermarkets and b) I am not convinced off licenses really are a necessity but it proves that they make their own decisions when they want to!)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 26, 2020, 09:11:10 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 26, 2020, 08:19:12 AM
Naomi has been in bed ill up until quite recently, I don't recall much if any input from her tbh?

Check out her twitter, she supported the nonsense coming from Westminister.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 26, 2020, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 26, 2020, 08:47:38 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2020, 08:35:00 AM
Quote from: ardtole on March 26, 2020, 08:31:47 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 26, 2020, 08:19:12 AM
Naomi has been in bed ill up until quite recently, I don't recall much if any input from her tbh?
Sdlp and sinn fein voted to close the schools, dup, uup and alliance voted to keep them open. I was shocked myself at the time, going against advice of who among others

Yep. She backed the British scientists to the hilt and didn't take the WHO stance on board whatsoever. She'll have to explain that in a few months!

I used to have time for naomi but no longer. She was the swinging vote that kept the schools open for so long, I know that for a fact. Seen recently on twitter that she was trying to justify herself.

Regardless of your beliefs any idiot that backed keeping schools open need to be punished at the polls.

NI executive should be overhauled as they are the most incompetent bunch of idiots I have every seen.

But sf will probably just create more whattsapp groups telling their supporters to vote Alliance over SDLP again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on March 26, 2020, 09:53:05 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2020, 09:03:02 AM
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 26, 2020, 08:47:38 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2020, 08:35:00 AM
Quote from: ardtole on March 26, 2020, 08:31:47 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 26, 2020, 08:19:12 AM
Naomi has been in bed ill up until quite recently, I don't recall much if any input from her tbh?
Sdlp and sinn fein voted to close the schools, dup, uup and alliance voted to keep them open. I was shocked myself at the time, going against advice of who among others

Yep. She backed the British scientists to the hilt and didn't take the WHO stance on board whatsoever. She'll have to explain that in a few months!

I used to have time for naomi but no longer. She was the swinging vote that kept the schools open for so long, I know that for a fact. Seen recently on twitter that she was trying to justify herself.

Regardless of your beliefs any idiot that backed keeping schools open need to be punished at the polls.

NI executive should be overhauled as they are the most incompetent bunch of idiots I have every seen.

Amen. What the hell is the point of a devolved govt if you wait for orders from Westminster. Show some bloody foresight and act! Go and get testing kits from Randox or close them down would be a start!

I don't care what politician said what at the minute, that will all come out in the wash at some point.
But the part in bold, 100% yes. I'd go one further...if Randox (or any other company) are trying to profiteer given the circumstances....take control of the company and get the tests that way. Pass legislation now and fight it in the court later if needs be.
Break the bank.....spend/borrow the money to protect and treat the people no matter what the cost. There shouldn't be any planning for the next election or grandstanding, plain and simple there's one priority and that is to get through this crisis.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on March 26, 2020, 10:28:50 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on March 26, 2020, 09:53:05 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2020, 09:03:02 AM
Quote from: tyrone08 on March 26, 2020, 08:47:38 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2020, 08:35:00 AM
Quote from: ardtole on March 26, 2020, 08:31:47 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 26, 2020, 08:19:12 AM
Naomi has been in bed ill up until quite recently, I don't recall much if any input from her tbh?
Sdlp and sinn fein voted to close the schools, dup, uup and alliance voted to keep them open. I was shocked myself at the time, going against advice of who among others

Yep. She backed the British scientists to the hilt and didn't take the WHO stance on board whatsoever. She'll have to explain that in a few months!

I used to have time for naomi but no longer. She was the swinging vote that kept the schools open for so long, I know that for a fact. Seen recently on twitter that she was trying to justify herself.

Regardless of your beliefs any idiot that backed keeping schools open need to be punished at the polls.

NI executive should be overhauled as they are the most incompetent bunch of idiots I have every seen.

Amen. What the hell is the point of a devolved govt if you wait for orders from Westminster. Show some bloody foresight and act! Go and get testing kits from Randox or close them down would be a start!

I don't care what politician said what at the minute, that will all come out in the wash at some point.
But the part in bold, 100% yes. I'd go one further...if Randox (or any other company) are trying to profiteer given the circumstances....take control of the company and get the tests that way. Pass legislation now and fight it in the court later if needs be.
Break the bank.....spend/borrow the money to protect and treat the people no matter what the cost. There shouldn't be any planning for the next election or grandstanding, plain and simple there's one priority and that is to get through this crisis.

Hard to know where to start with this except to note that the track record of State nationalisations of industrial companies is pitifully bad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: the goal was on on March 26, 2020, 10:50:58 AM
Very difficult for people to listen to arlene or michelle considering they led 3 years of 'do nothing'. Those 3 years of decline in many services will 100% cost lives now. The irony when Arlene begs nhs workers to come back to work! Many of the ministers are new to their roles after a 3 year hibernation so its fairly likely they are gonna be stretched. We don't have the resources and we unlikely to have them in the coming weeks therefore we should have a policy that is as aggressive as possible in terms of isolation if we are to give the hospitals and staff a chance. Set out your stall that's its zero tolerance. If it's lives at stake when 10 teenagers are congregating then treat them like they are putting lives at risk. Prosecute them. We need society to tighten up. If we do then there will be a lot less pain in the coming months.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 26, 2020, 10:56:22 AM
Quote from: the goal was on on March 26, 2020, 10:50:58 AM
Very difficult for people to listen to arlene or michelle considering they led 3 years of 'do nothing'. Those 3 years of decline in many services will 100% cost lives now. The irony when Arlene begs nhs workers to come back to work! Many of the ministers are new to their roles after a 3 year hibernation so its fairly likely they are gonna be stretched. We don't have the resources and we unlikely to have them in the coming weeks therefore we should have a policy that is as aggressive as possible in terms of isolation if we are to give the hospitals and staff a chance. Set out your stall that's its zero tolerance. If it's lives at stake when 10 teenagers are congregating then treat them like they are putting lives at risk. Prosecute them. We need society to tighten up. If we do then there will be a lot less pain in the coming months.

bang on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on March 26, 2020, 11:21:54 AM
Read about the woman out walking her dog, met a few teenagers apparently, one of them ran over to her to cough in her face and run away laughing to his mates.  If caught, I'd have that idiot locked up!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: WT4E on March 26, 2020, 11:30:27 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on March 26, 2020, 11:21:54 AM
Read about the woman out walking her dog, met a few teenagers apparently, one of them ran over to her to cough in her face and run away laughing to his mates.  If caught, I'd have that idiot locked up!

Bate the head of him before you hand him in please.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: WT4E on March 26, 2020, 11:33:22 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 12:34:58 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 26, 2020, 12:17:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 11:38:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 25, 2020, 11:29:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2020, 11:17:34 PM
But are you not just testing people who have symptoms in the south? And if they have it, they have it, and if they were in contact with others they'll  have it.

Exactly. And in the South there are 1200 people tracking down those contacts and getting them tested and telling them to isolate.

QuoteI'm talking as to why Germany have less fatalities with four times the cases

I told you, in the UK they only test you if you end up in the hospital. In  Germany, likely only 1 in 6 of them go to hospital.

Self isolation is the best way, that's what will stop it spreading. Let's continue to do that and find a vaccine

Testing ensures  that people with it are isolated, while allows the rests carry on. Keeping everyone isolated for another year will wreck the country.

It won't recover from this for a long time! Isolate for 4/5 weeks relax it then bring in Another lockdown but get those test kits out hopefully that'll buy time enough to get enough beds ventilators available

Testing to see if you currently have it needs to be done a little better but the game changer I believe will come when the test to see whose had it and recovered without knowing will be the real game changer. Will help the NHS, Economy and society morale. Sounds like it isnt far away some thinking could be good to go next week.

Obviously NHS workers first and then the rest after!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 26, 2020, 11:38:26 AM
Quote from: WT4E on March 26, 2020, 11:30:27 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on March 26, 2020, 11:21:54 AM
Read about the woman out walking her dog, met a few teenagers apparently, one of them ran over to her to cough in her face and run away laughing to his mates.  If caught, I'd have that idiot locked up!

Bate the head of him before you hand him in please.

Some fella in Belfast up in court today over something similar to Police Officers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 11:49:59 AM
There's social distancing and then over the top dangerous social distancing.

Out walking the dogs for their usual 5 mile walk today, between people stepping onto to a busy road and nearly getting wiped out to the ones wearing scarfs up to their eyes (while touching their face holding it in position) if you feel that unsafe do a few things

1) don't leave the house
2) wear a proper mask and gloves
3) work out what 2 metres or 6 foot is
4) take your dander at 5 in the morning
5) don't step onto the road, if you see someone coming towards you step in or wait on a wider path till they pass

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on March 26, 2020, 01:19:57 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on March 26, 2020, 10:50:58 AM
Very difficult for people to listen to arlene or michelle considering they led 3 years of 'do nothing'. Those 3 years of decline in many services will 100% cost lives now. The irony when Arlene begs nhs workers to come back to work! Many of the ministers are new to their roles after a 3 year hibernation so its fairly likely they are gonna be stretched. We don't have the resources and we unlikely to have them in the coming weeks therefore we should have a policy that is as aggressive as possible in terms of isolation if we are to give the hospitals and staff a chance. Set out your stall that's its zero tolerance. If it's lives at stake when 10 teenagers are congregating then treat them like they are putting lives at risk. Prosecute them. We need society to tighten up. If we do then there will be a lot less pain in the coming months.

Do you honestly think if Stormount had been up and running for 3 years our NHS would be in a better place?
We have severe restrictions on what we can do as we are depending on a Westminister handout. Whether or not our MLA's were sitting would not have increased the money required.
In my opinion, what will matter is how our MLA's and Executive manage this now with the resources we've got (or can borrow).
I think Robin Swann is out of his depth completely, though I don't necessarily mean that in a detrimental way. I think most people would be out of their depth currently, but personally I hardly ever heard of him before this crisis so not sure he'd have been the right person to steer our response on this issue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on March 26, 2020, 01:23:32 PM
I actually think Robin Swann has been excellent throughout this crisis

So much more disappointed with Arlene & Michelle - if they want to shut manufacturing & construction they should come out & say that they are not essential & can be Furloughed - any thing other than this is unsettling lip service!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 01:34:59 PM
No one would be brilliant at this, the health minister is the worst job it's like getting to be the N.I sec or being sent to the Russian front
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 26, 2020, 01:40:00 PM
Id say the likes of Swann and Sunak (sp?) be well chuffed at moving into their new roles just days/weeks before the biggest crisis in their lifetimes...
although both are coming out well so far
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 26, 2020, 01:45:17 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on March 26, 2020, 01:19:57 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on March 26, 2020, 10:50:58 AM
Very difficult for people to listen to arlene or michelle considering they led 3 years of 'do nothing'. Those 3 years of decline in many services will 100% cost lives now. The irony when Arlene begs nhs workers to come back to work! Many of the ministers are new to their roles after a 3 year hibernation so its fairly likely they are gonna be stretched. We don't have the resources and we unlikely to have them in the coming weeks therefore we should have a policy that is as aggressive as possible in terms of isolation if we are to give the hospitals and staff a chance. Set out your stall that's its zero tolerance. If it's lives at stake when 10 teenagers are congregating then treat them like they are putting lives at risk. Prosecute them. We need society to tighten up. If we do then there will be a lot less pain in the coming months.

Do you honestly think if Stormount had been up and running for 3 years our NHS would be in a better place?
We have severe restrictions on what we can do as we are depending on a Westminister handout. Whether or not our MLA's were sitting would not have increased the money required.
In my opinion, what will matter is how our MLA's and Executive manage this now with the resources we've got (or can borrow).
I think Robin Swann is out of his depth completely, though I don't necessarily mean that in a detrimental way. I think most people would be out of their depth currently, but personally I hardly ever heard of him before this crisis so not sure he'd have been the right person to steer our response on this issue.

I like Swann. He's doing decent job, affable person.. Yes the last 3 years has affected the NHS here. That's what the strike was about. Plus procurement was seriously curtailed. Shame on DUP/SF
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on March 26, 2020, 01:45:31 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 26, 2020, 11:38:26 AM
Quote from: WT4E on March 26, 2020, 11:30:27 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on March 26, 2020, 11:21:54 AM
Read about the woman out walking her dog, met a few teenagers apparently, one of them ran over to her to cough in her face and run away laughing to his mates.  If caught, I'd have that idiot locked up!

Bate the head of him before you hand him in please.

Some fella in Belfast up in court today over something similar to Police Officers.
Someone did it to the health minister Simon Harris the other day.
What a sc**bag thing to do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on March 26, 2020, 01:51:09 PM
Where would one find a four metre wide hula hoop?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wee Roddy on March 26, 2020, 01:56:09 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on March 26, 2020, 01:23:32 PM
I actually think Robin Swann has been excellent throughout this crisis

So much more disappointed with Arlene & Michelle - if they want to shut manufacturing & construction they should come out & say that they are not essential & can be Furloughed - any thing other than this is unsettling lip service!

Can I just ask if they have the power to do this? Would it be a vote again led by SF and the SDLP and the Unionists and Alliance go against it because Boris is saying different?
I actually think Robin Swann is coming out of this a lot more competent than most of his colleagues on the hill.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: the goal was on on March 26, 2020, 02:03:08 PM
Health was left to the UUP when the minister jobs were allocated. So SF and DUP avoided these at all costs. Is that leadership? To me definitely not.  Health as we should and will realise going forward is the number one priority. If someone wants to run our country but wants very little to do with health then it will speak volumes. Lets buy everything we possibly can to help and redirect monies projects that can be picked up down the line.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on March 26, 2020, 02:24:16 PM
Quote from: Wee Roddy on March 26, 2020, 01:56:09 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on March 26, 2020, 01:23:32 PM
I actually think Robin Swann has been excellent throughout this crisis

So much more disappointed with Arlene & Michelle - if they want to shut manufacturing & construction they should come out & say that they are not essential & can be Furloughed - any thing other than this is unsettling lip service!

Can I just ask if they have the power to do this? Would it be a vote again led by SF and the SDLP and the Unionists and Alliance go against it because Boris is saying different?
I actually think Robin Swann is coming out of this a lot more competent than most of his colleagues on the hill.

No but their leading employees down the path that they will be furloughed when in fact there is no guarantee whatsoever they will be - pitting employer against employee at the most difficult of times.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: knockitdown on March 26, 2020, 02:53:07 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on March 26, 2020, 02:24:16 PM
Quote from: Wee Roddy on March 26, 2020, 01:56:09 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on March 26, 2020, 01:23:32 PM
I actually think Robin Swann has been excellent throughout this crisis

So much more disappointed with Arlene & Michelle - if they want to shut manufacturing & construction they should come out & say that they are not essential & can be Furloughed - any thing other than this is unsettling lip service!

Can I just ask if they have the power to do this? Would it be a vote again led by SF and the SDLP and the Unionists and Alliance go against it because Boris is saying different?
I actually think Robin Swann is coming out of this a lot more competent than most of his colleagues on the hill.

No but their leading employees down the path that they will be furloughed when in fact there is no guarantee whatsoever they will be - pitting employer against employee at the most difficult of times.

Hearing that employers aren't happy with the furloughed proposal and when looked at in depth they will not come out well and could close many companies. They still have to pay tax, pension and ni contributions whilst they have effectively ceased trading, and so no money coming in. There doesn't appear to be an opt out if you do put employees on furlough, and there is no time limit on how long this is all going to last. I'm not sure how most companies could sign up to that. Whilst it appears good for the employee, it appears to be of little help to the employer and the longer the lockdown goes on, it will ultimately close companies anyway.

Has anyone else looked into it or sought advice? The government need to provide a better understanding of how this is going to work before companies can sign up to it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 26, 2020, 02:57:57 PM
Quote from: Wee Roddy on March 26, 2020, 01:56:09 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on March 26, 2020, 01:23:32 PM
I actually think Robin Swann has been excellent throughout this crisis

So much more disappointed with Arlene & Michelle - if they want to shut manufacturing & construction they should come out & say that they are not essential & can be Furloughed - any thing other than this is unsettling lip service!

Can I just ask if they have the power to do this? Would it be a vote again led by SF and the SDLP and the Unionists and Alliance go against it because Boris is saying different?
I actually think Robin Swann is coming out of this a lot more competent than most of his colleagues on the hill.

Say what you like about Swann, I think the Jury is still out on him ATM, but the CMO for this place needs his hole booted.

He was happy to follow the herd immunity plan coming from London when all along this plan didn't take into account NI and it's vastly worse off NHS (just look at the difference in waiting times prior to this virus).

I don't expect Swann, Arlene and Michelle to follow the detail but he should have known the implications of what was being proposed and followed based on the modelling coming out from Imperial College which makes it abundantly clear that NI was not part of the process.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on March 26, 2020, 03:15:14 PM
Quote from: knockitdown on March 26, 2020, 02:53:07 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on March 26, 2020, 02:24:16 PM
Quote from: Wee Roddy on March 26, 2020, 01:56:09 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on March 26, 2020, 01:23:32 PM
I actually think Robin Swann has been excellent throughout this crisis

So much more disappointed with Arlene & Michelle - if they want to shut manufacturing & construction they should come out & say that they are not essential & can be Furloughed - any thing other than this is unsettling lip service!

Can I just ask if they have the power to do this? Would it be a vote again led by SF and the SDLP and the Unionists and Alliance go against it because Boris is saying different?
I actually think Robin Swann is coming out of this a lot more competent than most of his colleagues on the hill.

No but their leading employees down the path that they will be furloughed when in fact there is no guarantee whatsoever they will be - pitting employer against employee at the most difficult of times.

Hearing that employers aren't happy with the furloughed proposal and when looked at in depth they will not come out well and could close many companies. They still have to pay tax, pension and ni contributions whilst they have effectively ceased trading, and so no money coming in. There doesn't appear to be an opt out if you do put employees on furlough, and there is no time limit on how long this is all going to last. I'm not sure how most companies could sign up to that. Whilst it appears good for the employee, it appears to be of little help to the employer and the longer the lockdown goes on, it will ultimately close companies anyway.

Has anyone else looked into it or sought advice? The government need to provide a better understanding of how this is going to work before companies can sign up to it.

It is incredibly loosely worded - there is a rapidly growing fear among businesses that'll it'll end up shafting them - having to close a business because of social distancing is not covered & to be honest the government have been all over the place on this... stressful times!

Banking has in addition not caught up with what's been announced last week - government says funding is there - you try getting a relationship manager to approve either overdraft / loan - takes several days to then state we're unsure this qualifies under the Covid policy!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 26, 2020, 03:33:28 PM
The Westies are on the right side anyway

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUBHlwHXQAYiicH?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wee Roddy on March 26, 2020, 04:04:47 PM
Quote from: knockitdown on March 26, 2020, 02:53:07 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on March 26, 2020, 02:24:16 PM
Quote from: Wee Roddy on March 26, 2020, 01:56:09 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on March 26, 2020, 01:23:32 PM
I actually think Robin Swann has been excellent throughout this crisis

So much more disappointed with Arlene & Michelle - if they want to shut manufacturing & construction they should come out & say that they are not essential & can be Furloughed - any thing other than this is unsettling lip service!

Can I just ask if they have the power to do this? Would it be a vote again led by SF and the SDLP and the Unionists and Alliance go against it because Boris is saying different?
I actually think Robin Swann is coming out of this a lot more competent than most of his colleagues on the hill.

No but their leading employees down the path that they will be furloughed when in fact there is no guarantee whatsoever they will be - pitting employer against employee at the most difficult of times.

Hearing that employers aren't happy with the furloughed proposal and when looked at in depth they will not come out well and could close many companies. They still have to pay tax, pension and ni contributions whilst they have effectively ceased trading, and so no money coming in. There doesn't appear to be an opt out if you do put employees on furlough, and there is no time limit on how long this is all going to last. I'm not sure how most companies could sign up to that. Whilst it appears good for the employee, it appears to be of little help to the employer and the longer the lockdown goes on, it will ultimately close companies anyway.

Has anyone else looked into it or sought advice? The government need to provide a better understanding of how this is going to work before companies can sign up to it.
[/quote

What happens if this takes longer than three months to sort? It doesn't add up where I work to pay 50 employees employees £160 000 over the next 3 months with nothing coming in, because accounts will not open to pay us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 26, 2020, 04:37:32 PM
Quote from: Wee Roddy on March 26, 2020, 04:04:47 PM
Quote from: knockitdown on March 26, 2020, 02:53:07 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on March 26, 2020, 02:24:16 PM
Quote from: Wee Roddy on March 26, 2020, 01:56:09 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on March 26, 2020, 01:23:32 PM
I actually think Robin Swann has been excellent throughout this crisis

So much more disappointed with Arlene & Michelle - if they want to shut manufacturing & construction they should come out & say that they are not essential & can be Furloughed - any thing other than this is unsettling lip service!

Can I just ask if they have the power to do this? Would it be a vote again led by SF and the SDLP and the Unionists and Alliance go against it because Boris is saying different?
I actually think Robin Swann is coming out of this a lot more competent than most of his colleagues on the hill.

No but their leading employees down the path that they will be furloughed when in fact there is no guarantee whatsoever they will be - pitting employer against employee at the most difficult of times.

Hearing that employers aren't happy with the furloughed proposal and when looked at in depth they will not come out well and could close many companies. They still have to pay tax, pension and ni contributions whilst they have effectively ceased trading, and so no money coming in. There doesn't appear to be an opt out if you do put employees on furlough, and there is no time limit on how long this is all going to last. I'm not sure how most companies could sign up to that. Whilst it appears good for the employee, it appears to be of little help to the employer and the longer the lockdown goes on, it will ultimately close companies anyway.

Has anyone else looked into it or sought advice? The government need to provide a better understanding of how this is going to work before companies can sign up to it.
[/quote

What happens if this takes longer than three months to sort? It doesn't add up where I work to pay 50 employees employees £160 000 over the next 3 months with nothing coming in, because accounts will not open to pay us.

Business is fucked. This has driven the economy off a cliff. If you have a job at the end of this you'll be lucky.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 26, 2020, 05:40:47 PM


Penneys are missing out on 700m Euro of sales per month

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/penneys-suspends-rent-payments-to-landlords-for-37-stores-1.4213039
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2020, 05:46:21 PM
What's the thoughts on the chancellor's announcement?

I fall in between the cracks as have only been self employed for a few months. Feel sick  :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 26, 2020, 05:48:15 PM
Def a few gonna miss out. Sorry to hear Walter.

Not payable to June
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 26, 2020, 06:01:37 PM
Guy who helped compile Imperial College report reduces death estimate figure from 250k to 20k maybe not even. Still a lot but helluva difference....

Cant copy and paste but search Caleb Howe on twitter
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 26, 2020, 06:08:31 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 26, 2020, 06:01:37 PM
Guy who helped compile Imperial College report reduces death estimate figure from 250k to 20k maybe not even. Still a lot but helluva difference....

Cant copy and paste but search Caleb Howe on twitter

I would presume this revision was made following the changes in the government's response strategy from the earlier madness, which were no doubt influenced by the Imperial College report ( even Trump was, at least for a time!).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 26, 2020, 06:54:42 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 26, 2020, 06:01:37 PM
Guy who helped compile Imperial College report reduces death estimate figure from 250k to 20k maybe not even. Still a lot but helluva difference....

Cant copy and paste but search Caleb Howe on twitter

Who?

Current measures have stopped it growing quicker, but its still growing at a steady ~20% per day.

There are now about 11,500 cases. That's getting into ICU thresholds.

**hopefully** the lockdown will see the growth figures decline and turn negative. Need strong evidence of this starting to happen within the next week or things get really bad.


edit: We aren't near the middle of the woods yet, never mind nearing the exit!

edit2: Clarified growth figure changes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 26, 2020, 07:44:18 PM
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238578-uk-has-enough-intensive-care-units-for-coronavirus-expert-predicts/

Is this the one?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 26, 2020, 08:03:47 PM
Yup
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 08:22:15 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 26, 2020, 06:54:42 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 26, 2020, 06:01:37 PM
Guy who helped compile Imperial College report reduces death estimate figure from 250k to 20k maybe not even. Still a lot but helluva difference....

Cant copy and paste but search Caleb Howe on twitter

Who?

Current measures have stopped it growing quicker, but its still growing at a steady ~20% per day.

There are now about 11,500 cases. That's getting into ICU thresholds.

**hopefully** the lockdown will see the growth figures decline and turn negative. Need strong evidence of this starting to happen within the next week or things get really bad.


edit: We aren't near the middle of the woods yet, never mind nearing the exit!

edit2: Clarified growth figure changes

You must put in at least one positive point in your posts Radio, as must of them are morbid  8)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 26, 2020, 08:42:06 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 19, 2020, 08:48:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 08:23:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 19, 2020, 08:14:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2020, 07:58:31 PM
That's the same here and England I'd presume, so are people in England not bothering about being tested?

It isn't. If you phone your GP he'll check if you are seriously ill; if not then that is it he'll say take a panadol every 4 hours,  if you are ill then you go to hospital and then get tested.

So if you're not seriously ill then why get tested? If you've cold symptoms then best to stay in and not expose anyone?

If you're concerned and tell your GP he'll arrange a test .. the guy I know wasn't seriously ill and recovered but had the test, so you're saying they are not testing unless they are seriously ill?

GP won't arrange a test if you ask.
As of yesterday a bad asthmatic is showing all of the synptoms.
He feels like complete shit....in his words like he has been hit by a lorry.

Was told to double the intake of his inhaler and rest.
If he gets seriously ill he needs to call Doc and tell him.

That's it.

His partner is now showing synptoms as is his two kids.

All will simply be isolated the same as him.

It's a shambles in the UK

The asthmatic that was ill last week is still suffering.
Had to be rushed to hospital today where they tested him for a number of things but not Covid.
He actually asked why and they said their direction is to rule everything else out before doing the test.

Gave him steroids to open the airways and sent him home tonight asking  him to return if he doesn't improve.

Showing all of the synptoms of Covid.

Can only imagine the true number of cases in the 6 counties if this is being adhered to.

Scary stuff
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on March 26, 2020, 08:50:30 PM
See below from Eamon Mccann.
Still think Robin Swan is doing a good job? I don't.
We are under prepared and not doing enough to get prepared for this surge.


The Tories ordered 10,000 ventilators from Dyson. The North is to get only 600. Nurses and health workers here said our health service was one of the least prepared to deal with this crisis. We need thousands of ventilators not hundreds.

Last week Minister of Heath Robin Swann said he'd ordered 40 for a total in the North of 179. Pathetic!

Yesterday he announced 650 were being ordered. There's clearly no understanding of the threat people face and no clear leadership coming from Westminster or the Stormont Executive. This will cost lives. And this is made all the more disastrous given there is one of the biggest ventilator manufacturers in the world making them in Galway.

Another clear example of how an integrated all-Ireland public health strategy could save lives.

We need to keep shouting very loud for urgent action.

We need thousands of ventilators and we can get them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 08:55:17 PM
How many are the firm in Galway making ?

I take it the south has demanded that they are used in the south?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on March 26, 2020, 08:59:12 PM
10 deaths today. Very sad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 26, 2020, 09:09:16 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 26, 2020, 08:42:06 PM
The asthmatic that was ill last week is still suffering.
Had to be rushed to hospital today where they tested him for a number of things but not Covid.
He actually asked why and they said their direction is to rule everything else out before doing the test.

What the genuine f**k?!?!

So basically place everyone who has been testing/caring/transporting him at risk of contracting an infectious disease by not first testing the patient for said infectious disease.

All for perception.

Whoever decided that policy should be straight in front of a firing squad never mind a judge.


Raging. Proper raging.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 26, 2020, 09:14:48 PM
Quote from: laoislad on March 26, 2020, 08:59:12 PM
10 deaths today. Very sad.

that's 13 on the island today, pretty much a doubling of numbers.
The numbers of new cases is still growing but relatively slowly and many of those were tested several days ago. You'd need to see that number begin to decline, although you can never be sure about whether the number represents a change in actual cases or a change in the processing of tests. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 26, 2020, 09:18:41 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 26, 2020, 09:09:16 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 26, 2020, 08:42:06 PM
The asthmatic that was ill last week is still suffering.
Had to be rushed to hospital today where they tested him for a number of things but not Covid.
He actually asked why and they said their direction is to rule everything else out before doing the test.

What the genuine f**k?!?!

So basically place everyone who has been testing/caring/transporting him at risk of contracting an infectious disease by not first testing the patient for said infectious disease.

All for perception.

Whoever decided that policy should be straight in front of a firing squad never mind a judge.


Raging. Proper raging.

Absolutely shocking Radio.
He is proper fucked off in between the bouts of fever, coughing and serious problems breathing all while trying to isolate in a house with the wife and two kids.

Am quite sure there are instances like this (And worse) all over the UK
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 26, 2020, 09:19:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 08:22:15 PM
You must put in at least one positive point in your posts Radio, as must of them are morbid  8)

If I see good news I'll gladly post it.

Unfortunately to date there has been little beyond depressing & frustrating inaction or wrong decisions from the key decision makers that will really shape how this pans out.

Neil Ferguson's presentation earlier was a shaft of light, but that's all it was. If folks get complacent about distancing, we're swiftly going backwards again.

(and I think London's fucked)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 09:25:31 PM
13 weeks, if we can do that we'll hopefully get closer to a bringing down the cases
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on March 26, 2020, 09:31:21 PM
I see the States has surpassed China for no of cases (usual disclaimer about: number of tests not the same; can't trust the Chinese numbers)

The total cases seem to be increasing by over 2 x the world average

Date   tot US cases   new US cases   daily increase      tot world cases   new world cases   
5-Mar    221             98425      
6-Mar    319     98    44%      102050    3,625    4%
7-Mar    435     116    36%      106099    4,049    4%
8-Mar    541     106    24%      109991    3,892    4%
9-Mar    704     163    30%      114381    4,390    4%
10-Mar    994     290    41%      118948    4,567    4%
11-Mar    1,301     307    31%      126214    7,266    6%
12-Mar    1,630     329    25%      134509    8,295    7%
13-Mar    2,183     553    34%      145416    10,907    8%
14-Mar    2,770     587    27%      156475    11,059    8%
15-Mar    3,613     843    30%      169517    13,042    8%
16-Mar    4,596     983    27%      182414    12,897    8%
17-Mar    6,344     1,748    38%      198159    15,745    9%
18-Mar    9,197     2,853    45%      218744    20,585    10%
19-Mar    13,779     4,582    50%      244902    26,158    12%
20-Mar    19,367     5,588    41%      275550    30,648    13%
21-Mar    24,192     4,825    25%      304979    29,429    11%
22-Mar    33,592     9,400    39%      337459    32,480    11%
23-Mar    43,781     10,189    30%      378830    41,371    12%
24-Mar    54,856     11,075    25%      422574    43,744    12%
25-Mar    68,211     13,355    24%      471035    48,461    11%
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 09:33:20 PM
Interesting  to compare Sweden, Norway and Iceland

Sweden's on a light lockdown similar to South Korea  - people are trusted to act responsibly. restaurants and pubs are open , people are seated only and with some space in between
Norway is on a strict lockdown
Iceland is somewhere in between, but veering towards the lighter side.

Tests are fewer in Sweden, people are only tested if there is good cause.  Norway and Iceland test as many as they can.

Sweden 10.3m population  on 22 March,  24.500  tests, 1934 cases, 22 deaths.

Norway 5.4m population   On 25 March 2020 -  73,892 tests, 3,346 confirmed cases,  265 hospitalised, (70 on respirator) and 14 deaths
Iceland, most all first infected were returnees from ski trips Tirol/Austria/North Italy/Switz.

population  365,000   on 25 March  12,615 tests,   802  confirmed cases,  hospitalised 17 (3 intensive care),    1 dead  and 2nd death was a tourist who arrived half dead.

I never took to skiing and now my choice in life is finally vindicated.

Overall Sweden comes out good, not much diffferent to lockdown Norway,  there's a greater toleration of the natural immunity approach and forward thinking towards the likelihood of  2nd and 3rd wave, which has some  similarities to South Korea's policy.

The  Iceland and Norway  wide testing policy indicate  between 0.5%  to 0.7%  confirmed cases in the general population.
There's no data  that I could find on the levels of severity,  you either have it or are in hospital. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ned on March 26, 2020, 09:44:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 09:33:20 PM
Interesting  to compare Sweden, Norway and Iceland

Sweden's on a light lockdown similar to South Korea  - people are trusted to act responsibly. restaurants and pubs are open , people are seated only and with some space in between
Norway is on a strict lockdown
Iceland is somewhere in between, but veering towards the lighter side.

Tests are fewer in Sweden, people are only tested if there is good cause.  Norway and Iceland test as many as they can.

Sweden 10.3m population  on 22 March,  24.500  tests, 1934 cases, 22 deaths.

Norway 5.4m population   On 25 March 2020 -  73,892 tests, 3,346 confirmed cases,  265 hospitalised, (70 on respirator) and 14 deaths
Iceland, most all first infected were returnees from ski trips Tirol/Austria/North Italy/Switz.

population  365,000   on 25 March  12,615 tests,   802  confirmed cases,  hospitalised 17 (3 intensive care),    1 dead  and 2nd death was a tourist who arrived half dead.

I never took to skiing and now my choice in life is finally vindicated.

Overall Sweden comes out good, not much diffferent to lockdown Norway,  there's a greater toleration of the natural immunity approach and forward thinking towards the likelihood of  2nd and 3rd wave, which has some  similarities to South Korea's policy.

The  Iceland and Norway  wide testing policy indicate  between 0.5%  to 0.7%  confirmed cases in the general population.
There's no data  that I could find on the levels of severity,  you either have it or are in hospital.

3 days can make a difference. Go look at number of deaths in Sweden now. They also gave a higher % of cases to tests!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 09:53:14 PM
Quote from: ned on March 26, 2020, 09:44:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 09:33:20 PM
Interesting  to compare Sweden, Norway and Iceland

Sweden's on a light lockdown similar to South Korea  - people are trusted to act responsibly. restaurants and pubs are open , people are seated only and with some space in between
Norway is on a strict lockdown
Iceland is somewhere in between, but veering towards the lighter side.

Tests are fewer in Sweden, people are only tested if there is good cause.  Norway and Iceland test as many as they can.

Sweden 10.3m population  on 22 March,  24.500  tests, 1934 cases, 22 deaths.

Norway 5.4m population   On 25 March 2020 -  73,892 tests, 3,346 confirmed cases,  265 hospitalised, (70 on respirator) and 14 deaths
Iceland, most all first infected were returnees from ski trips Tirol/Austria/North Italy/Switz.

population  365,000   on 25 March  12,615 tests,   802  confirmed cases,  hospitalised 17 (3 intensive care),    1 dead  and 2nd death was a tourist who arrived half dead.

I never took to skiing and now my choice in life is finally vindicated.

Overall Sweden comes out good, not much diffferent to lockdown Norway,  there's a greater toleration of the natural immunity approach and forward thinking towards the likelihood of  2nd and 3rd wave, which has some  similarities to South Korea's policy.

The  Iceland and Norway  wide testing policy indicate  between 0.5%  to 0.7%  confirmed cases in the general population.
There's no data  that I could find on the levels of severity,  you either have it or are in hospital.

3 days can make a difference. Go look at number of deaths in Sweden now. They also gave a higher % of cases to tests!
As I very clearly wrote,  Sweden only test people with good cause, both Norway and Iceland test as many as they can, with and without cause.  Cause means -  flu like symptoms.
Therefore Sweden "have a higher % of cases to test"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ned on March 26, 2020, 09:54:25 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 09:53:14 PM
Quote from: ned on March 26, 2020, 09:44:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 09:33:20 PM
Interesting  to compare Sweden, Norway and Iceland

Sweden's on a light lockdown similar to South Korea  - people are trusted to act responsibly. restaurants and pubs are open , people are seated only and with some space in between
Norway is on a strict lockdown
Iceland is somewhere in between, but veering towards the lighter side.

Tests are fewer in Sweden, people are only tested if there is good cause.  Norway and Iceland test as many as they can.

Sweden 10.3m population  on 22 March,  24.500  tests, 1934 cases, 22 deaths.

Norway 5.4m population   On 25 March 2020 -  73,892 tests, 3,346 confirmed cases,  265 hospitalised, (70 on respirator) and 14 deaths
Iceland, most all first infected were returnees from ski trips Tirol/Austria/North Italy/Switz.

population  365,000   on 25 March  12,615 tests,   802  confirmed cases,  hospitalised 17 (3 intensive care),    1 dead  and 2nd death was a tourist who arrived half dead.

I never took to skiing and now my choice in life is finally vindicated.

Overall Sweden comes out good, not much diffferent to lockdown Norway,  there's a greater toleration of the natural immunity approach and forward thinking towards the likelihood of  2nd and 3rd wave, which has some  similarities to South Korea's policy.

The  Iceland and Norway  wide testing policy indicate  between 0.5%  to 0.7%  confirmed cases in the general population.
There's no data  that I could find on the levels of severity,  you either have it or are in hospital.

3 days can make a difference. Go look at number of deaths in Sweden now. They also gave a higher % of cases to tests!
As I very clearly wrote,  Sweden only test people with good cause, both Norway and Iceland test as many as they can, with and without cause.  Cause means -  flu like symptoms.
Therefore Sweden "have a higher % of cases to test"

That wasn't the main point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 26, 2020, 09:54:48 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 09:33:20 PM
Interesting  to compare Sweden, Norway and Iceland

Sweden's on a light lockdown similar to South Korea  - people are trusted to act responsibly. restaurants and pubs are open , people are seated only and with some space in between
Norway is on a strict lockdown
Iceland is somewhere in between, but veering towards the lighter side.

Tests are fewer in Sweden, people are only tested if there is good cause.  Norway and Iceland test as many as they can.

Sweden 10.3m population  on 22 March,  24.500  tests, 1934 cases, 22 deaths.

Norway 5.4m population   On 25 March 2020 -  73,892 tests, 3,346 confirmed cases,  265 hospitalised, (70 on respirator) and 14 deaths
Iceland, most all first infected were returnees from ski trips Tirol/Austria/North Italy/Switz.


Sweden has 71 deaths in total today. Deaths can lag a bit, you'll see Norway doing much better as time goes by.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 09:55:57 PM
Quote from: ned on March 26, 2020, 09:54:25 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 09:53:14 PM
Quote from: ned on March 26, 2020, 09:44:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 09:33:20 PM
Interesting  to compare Sweden, Norway and Iceland

Sweden's on a light lockdown similar to South Korea  - people are trusted to act responsibly. restaurants and pubs are open , people are seated only and with some space in between
Norway is on a strict lockdown
Iceland is somewhere in between, but veering towards the lighter side.

Tests are fewer in Sweden, people are only tested if there is good cause.  Norway and Iceland test as many as they can.

Sweden 10.3m population  on 22 March,  24.500  tests, 1934 cases, 22 deaths.

Norway 5.4m population   On 25 March 2020 -  73,892 tests, 3,346 confirmed cases,  265 hospitalised, (70 on respirator) and 14 deaths
Iceland, most all first infected were returnees from ski trips Tirol/Austria/North Italy/Switz.

population  365,000   on 25 March  12,615 tests,   802  confirmed cases,  hospitalised 17 (3 intensive care),    1 dead  and 2nd death was a tourist who arrived half dead.

I never took to skiing and now my choice in life is finally vindicated.

Overall Sweden comes out good, not much diffferent to lockdown Norway,  there's a greater toleration of the natural immunity approach and forward thinking towards the likelihood of  2nd and 3rd wave, which has some  similarities to South Korea's policy.

The  Iceland and Norway  wide testing policy indicate  between 0.5%  to 0.7%  confirmed cases in the general population.
There's no data  that I could find on the levels of severity,  you either have it or are in hospital.

3 days can make a difference. Go look at number of deaths in Sweden now. They also gave a higher % of cases to tests!
As I very clearly wrote,  Sweden only test people with good cause, both Norway and Iceland test as many as they can, with and without cause.  Cause means -  flu like symptoms.
Therefore Sweden "have a higher % of cases to test"

That wasn't the main point.
It was a faulty point and clearly demonstrates that you can't evaluate information objectively.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 09:58:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 26, 2020, 09:54:48 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 09:33:20 PM
Interesting  to compare Sweden, Norway and Iceland

Sweden's on a light lockdown similar to South Korea  - people are trusted to act responsibly. restaurants and pubs are open , people are seated only and with some space in between
Norway is on a strict lockdown
Iceland is somewhere in between, but veering towards the lighter side.

Tests are fewer in Sweden, people are only tested if there is good cause.  Norway and Iceland test as many as they can.

Sweden 10.3m population  on 22 March,  24.500  tests, 1934 cases, 22 deaths.

Norway 5.4m population   On 25 March 2020 -  73,892 tests, 3,346 confirmed cases,  265 hospitalised, (70 on respirator) and 14 deaths
Iceland, most all first infected were returnees from ski trips Tirol/Austria/North Italy/Switz.


Sweden has 71 deaths in total today. Deaths can lag a bit, you'll see Norway doing much better as time goes by.
You sound like PM Johnson, make a prediction -   without the substance.
How about Iceland's stats?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 26, 2020, 10:04:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 08:55:17 PM
How many are the firm in Galway making ?

I take it the south has demanded that they are used in the south?

Do they send them all over Europe also or do they just send everything they make now to the HSE?

You'd think the Dublin government would be offering them big grant money (for the future) to keep everything they make in Ireland at present.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 26, 2020, 10:05:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 26, 2020, 09:09:16 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 26, 2020, 08:42:06 PM
The asthmatic that was ill last week is still suffering.
Had to be rushed to hospital today where they tested him for a number of things but not Covid.
He actually asked why and they said their direction is to rule everything else out before doing the test.

What the genuine f**k?!?!

So basically place everyone who has been testing/caring/transporting him at risk of contracting an infectious disease by not first testing the patient for said infectious disease.

All for perception.

Whoever decided that policy should be straight in front of a firing squad never mind a judge.


Raging. Proper raging.

Is it possible there's a shortage of Covid testing resources? When our little one was admitted for pneumonia a few weeks ago she didn't get tested for Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 26, 2020, 10:10:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 08:55:17 PM
How many are the firm in Galway making ?

I take it the south has demanded that they are used in the south?

Medtronic Galway, big set up, very professional company, not sure numbers but doubled staff in thst section 2 weeks ago
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 26, 2020, 10:10:27 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 09:33:20 PM
Overall Sweden comes out good, not much diffferent to lockdown Norway,  there's a greater toleration of the natural immunity approach and forward thinking towards the likelihood of  2nd and 3rd wave, which has some  similarities to South Korea's policy.

This is nonsense, South Korea is testing left right and centre and regards the natural immunity approach as bollix.

Quote from: Main Street
You sound like PM Johnson, make a prediction -   without the substance.

Norway is testing widely, and can afford it, they will get it under control.

QuoteHow about Iceland's stats?

Given the size of the place, I think Iceland will succesfully track down the virus by testing and tracing.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 26, 2020, 10:20:51 PM
I've got a question folks and it might apply to some.others on here as well. I live just across the border in Donegal, on the Derry/Donegal border, like a lot of people from Derry city.
With the north seeming miles behind on the testing and Taylor's horror story, in the unfortunate event of someone in the household showing symptoms would I better off calling the Irish number and going that route?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 10:25:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 26, 2020, 10:10:27 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 09:33:20 PM
Overall Sweden comes out good, not much diffferent to lockdown Norway,  there's a greater toleration of the natural immunity approach and forward thinking towards the likelihood of  2nd and 3rd wave, which has some  similarities to South Korea's policy.

This is nonsense, South Korea is testing left right and centre and regards the natural immunity approach as bollix.

Quote from: Main Street
You sound like PM Johnson, make a prediction -   without the substance.

Norway is testing widely, and can afford it, they will get it under control.

QuoteHow about Iceland's stats?

Given the size of the place, I think Iceland will succesfully track down the virus by testing and tracing.
You had better check up on South Korea, there are discussions about further relaxations with the purpose to allow the infection to spread.
Iceland is bigger than Ireland,  size has nothing to do with it,  you're talking through the proverbial hole.
Resources are proportional to the population, same as Ireland albeit a good bit cleaner.

As for predictions about Sweden, the stats indicate that  fewer people are being hospitalised as previous, I seriously doubt that they are refusing sick people medical attention.
https://portal.icuregswe.org/siri/report/vtfstart-corona

intensive care
https://www.icuregswe.org/en/data--results/covid-19-in-swedish-intensive-care/

This is information which is worthy of an educated discusssion, not reactionary prejudiced opinions dismissively being aired which gloss over anything of value to be learned.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ned on March 26, 2020, 10:27:14 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 09:55:57 PM
Quote from: ned on March 26, 2020, 09:54:25 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 09:53:14 PM
Quote from: ned on March 26, 2020, 09:44:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 09:33:20 PM
Interesting  to compare Sweden, Norway and Iceland

Sweden's on a light lockdown similar to South Korea  - people are trusted to act responsibly. restaurants and pubs are open , people are seated only and with some space in between
Norway is on a strict lockdown
Iceland is somewhere in between, but veering towards the lighter side.

Tests are fewer in Sweden, people are only tested if there is good cause.  Norway and Iceland test as many as they can.

Sweden 10.3m population  on 22 March,  24.500  tests, 1934 cases, 22 deaths.

Norway 5.4m population   On 25 March 2020 -  73,892 tests, 3,346 confirmed cases,  265 hospitalised, (70 on respirator) and 14 deaths
Iceland, most all first infected were returnees from ski trips Tirol/Austria/North Italy/Switz.

population  365,000   on 25 March  12,615 tests,   802  confirmed cases,  hospitalised 17 (3 intensive care),    1 dead  and 2nd death was a tourist who arrived half dead.

I never took to skiing and now my choice in life is finally vindicated.

Overall Sweden comes out good, not much diffferent to lockdown Norway,  there's a greater toleration of the natural immunity approach and forward thinking towards the likelihood of  2nd and 3rd wave, which has some  similarities to South Korea's policy.

The  Iceland and Norway  wide testing policy indicate  between 0.5%  to 0.7%  confirmed cases in the general population.
There's no data  that I could find on the levels of severity,  you either have it or are in hospital.

3 days can make a difference. Go look at number of deaths in Sweden now. They also gave a higher % of cases to tests!
As I very clearly wrote,  Sweden only test people with good cause, both Norway and Iceland test as many as they can, with and without cause.  Cause means -  flu like symptoms.
Therefore Sweden "have a higher % of cases to test"

That wasn't the main point.
It was a faulty point and clearly demonstrates that you can't evaluate information objectively.

You were the one who quoted figures three days apart. Variances between countries are multifactorial.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: MayoBuck on March 26, 2020, 10:30:50 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 26, 2020, 10:04:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 08:55:17 PM
How many are the firm in Galway making ?

I take it the south has demanded that they are used in the south?

Do they send them all over Europe also or do they just send everything they make now to the HSE?

You'd think the Dublin government would be offering them big grant money (for the future) to keep everything they make in Ireland at present.

On the 9 o'clock news they showed a load of medical equipment at Dublin airport about to be flown to America.

The likes of Medtronic, Abbott, Hollister and Baxter are all American companies so I'd say they'll need to send a good portion back to their home country.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on March 26, 2020, 10:38:07 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on March 26, 2020, 08:50:30 PM
See below from Eamon Mccann.
Still think Robin Swan is doing a good job? I don't.
We are under prepared and not doing enough to get prepared for this surge.


The Tories ordered 10,000 ventilators from Dyson. The North is to get only 600. Nurses and health workers here said our health service was one of the least prepared to deal with this crisis. We need thousands of ventilators not hundreds.

Last week Minister of Heath Robin Swann said he'd ordered 40 for a total in the North of 179. Pathetic!

Yesterday he announced 650 were being ordered. There's clearly no understanding of the threat people face and no clear leadership coming from Westminster or the Stormont Executive. This will cost lives. And this is made all the more disastrous given there is one of the biggest ventilator manufacturers in the world making them in Galway.

Another clear example of how an integrated all-Ireland public health strategy could save lives.

We need to keep shouting very loud for urgent action.

We need thousands of ventilators and we can get them.

Look I'm by no stretch of the imagination his biggest fan but he took the role 10 weeks ago after years of neglect & your expecting him to have been prepared for the biggest health crisis we've ever faced?

I dare say T Brick he'd gladly swap places with you!

Also do you expect the NI Executive to be seeking out Dyson? And if they got these 1000's of ventilators where will they put them - the ICU room capacity is not there to accommodate them!

The scale of this is incomprehensible - you've the NHS trying to source 40,000sq meters of space in numerous locations around the country!

The public sector here is not dynamic to deal with this hence all the pleas with private business to work together - and that's the only way we're all going to get through this - everyone working as one!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 10:52:43 PM
Quote from: ned on March 26, 2020, 10:27:14 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 09:55:57 PM
Quote from: ned on March 26, 2020, 09:54:25 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 09:53:14 PM
Quote from: ned on March 26, 2020, 09:44:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 09:33:20 PM
Interesting  to compare Sweden, Norway and Iceland

Sweden's on a light lockdown similar to South Korea  - people are trusted to act responsibly. restaurants and pubs are open , people are seated only and with some space in between
Norway is on a strict lockdown
Iceland is somewhere in between, but veering towards the lighter side.

Tests are fewer in Sweden, people are only tested if there is good cause.  Norway and Iceland test as many as they can.

Sweden 10.3m population  on 22 March,  24.500  tests, 1934 cases, 22 deaths.

Norway 5.4m population   On 25 March 2020 -  73,892 tests, 3,346 confirmed cases,  265 hospitalised, (70 on respirator) and 14 deaths
Iceland, most all first infected were returnees from ski trips Tirol/Austria/North Italy/Switz.

population  365,000   on 25 March  12,615 tests,   802  confirmed cases,  hospitalised 17 (3 intensive care),    1 dead  and 2nd death was a tourist who arrived half dead.

I never took to skiing and now my choice in life is finally vindicated.

Overall Sweden comes out good, not much diffferent to lockdown Norway,  there's a greater toleration of the natural immunity approach and forward thinking towards the likelihood of  2nd and 3rd wave, which has some  similarities to South Korea's policy.

The  Iceland and Norway  wide testing policy indicate  between 0.5%  to 0.7%  confirmed cases in the general population.
There's no data  that I could find on the levels of severity,  you either have it or are in hospital.

3 days can make a difference. Go look at number of deaths in Sweden now. They also gave a higher % of cases to tests!
As I very clearly wrote,  Sweden only test people with good cause, both Norway and Iceland test as many as they can, with and without cause.  Cause means -  flu like symptoms.
Therefore Sweden "have a higher % of cases to test"

That wasn't the main point.
It was a faulty point and clearly demonstrates that you can't evaluate information objectively.

You were the one who quoted figures three days apart. Variances between countries are multifactorial.
Whatever the fck that means to justify you not reading what I clearly wrote before. And also what I clearly wrote were the dates associated with the data, with no attempt to hide anything.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 26, 2020, 11:01:51 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 10:25:44 PM
You had better check up on South Korea, there are discussions about further relaxations with the purpose to allow the infection to spread.

I'm sure you will provide a link to such a policy. More likely they are relaxing economic restrictions in the belief that they can control the spread.

Quote
Iceland is bigger than Ireland,  size has nothing to do with it,  you're talking through the proverbial hole.

Iceland has 5% of the population of this island and tracing connections is easier on an island known for the quality of its medical databases. It is clearly easier to trace contacts in Iceland than in New York and anyone arguing otherwise is using the proverbial aperture.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 11:11:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 26, 2020, 11:01:51 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 10:25:44 PM
You had better check up on South Korea, there are discussions about further relaxations with the purpose to allow the infection to spread.

I'm sure you will provide a link to such a policy. More likely they are relaxing economic restrictions in the belief that they can control the spread.

Quote
Iceland is bigger than Ireland,  size has nothing to do with it,  you're talking through the proverbial hole.

Iceland has 5% of the population of this island and tracing connections is easier on an island known for the quality of its medical databases. It is clearly easier to trace contacts in Iceland than in New York and anyone arguing otherwise is using the proverbial aperture.
I never said it was South Korea policy, I said it was up for discussion and seeing as you have a prejudiced inability to enact a simple search or be aware of the more educated discussions available on the www,   I will provide a link.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52001837 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52001837)
For the record i will quote the relevant text quoted from the head of the South Korea National Medical Committee,

'At a press conference, the head of the National Medical Committee, Dr Oh Myoung-don, told reporters there could be another spike in infections once schools re-opened. He is also concerned about a possible resurgence of the virus this coming winter. He raised the possibility that it may be time to allow part of the population to get sick. The "herd immunity" theory. He acknowledges the risk but also believes now is the time to be having these conversations and warn the public'

Re Iceland,  you are talking through the proverbial hole without any knowledge of the challenges that face medics in Iceland. Do you just imagine stuff up to support a crazy opinion, rather like PM Johnson  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: DrinkingHarp on March 26, 2020, 11:17:00 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on March 26, 2020, 01:51:09 PM
Where would one find a four metre wide hula hoop?

Here

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a31490476/coronavirus-giant-cardboard-donut-guy-social-distancing/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on March 26, 2020, 11:28:25 PM
One piece of advice we are getting is to avoid the elderly over 70. So on social media we are seeing images of people talking to their parents through the window or standing at the open back door and talking to them who are standing inside the door
Can anyone explain to me why anyone cannot not enter the house, touch absolutely nothing while inside, speak to their elderly parents from a distance of more than 2 metres and leave the house again without touching anything? Surely this is safe or am I missing something? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 26, 2020, 11:31:13 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on March 26, 2020, 11:28:25 PM
One piece of advice we are getting is to avoid the elderly over 70. So on social media we are seeing images of people talking to their parents through the window or standing at the open back door and talking to them who are standing inside the door
Can anyone explain to me why anyone cannot not enter the house, touch absolutely nothing while inside, speak to their elderly parents from a distance of more than 2 metres and leave the house again without touching anything? Surely this is safe or am I missing something?

Can still infect others by talking to them. Ever spoke to someone and they spit droplets of saliva over you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 11:33:06 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on March 26, 2020, 11:28:25 PM
One piece of advice we are getting is to avoid the elderly over 70. So on social media we are seeing images of people talking to their parents through the window or standing at the open back door and talking to them who are standing inside the door
Can anyone explain to me why anyone cannot not enter the house, touch absolutely nothing while inside, speak to their elderly parents from a distance of more than 2 metres and leave the house again without touching anything? Surely this is safe or am I missing something?

Heard someone say the living space can keep the virus up to 72 hours, so by speaking or breathing you could potentially spread it around the room.

There's more experts on that to inform you better
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on March 26, 2020, 11:35:43 PM
People need to stop taking it as an absolute fact that standing 2m apart, leaving at 14 minutes and the virus dies at exactly 20 hours on stainless steel.

Theses are not strict rules. Like everything they are open to variation. Some people will spread droplets further than 2m. Some people will infect people within one minute of contact. The virus will live for over 20 hours on some steel surfaces and live less on others.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 26, 2020, 11:36:13 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 26, 2020, 11:11:24 PM
Re Iceland,  you are talking through the proverbial hole without any knowledge of the challenges that face medics in Iceland. Do you just imagine stuff up to support a crazy opinion, rather like PM Johnson  ;D
[/quotezy

That's twice that you stated I was crazy and talking through my hole and even worse compared me with Boris Johnson  for putting forward the proposition that it is easier to trace people in a smaller place than a larger one, which is hardly an extreme opinion. I  think you need some practice in conducting an educated discussion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 26, 2020, 11:38:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 11:33:06 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on March 26, 2020, 11:28:25 PM
One piece of advice we are getting is to avoid the elderly over 70. So on social media we are seeing images of people talking to their parents through the window or standing at the open back door and talking to them who are standing inside the door
Can anyone explain to me why anyone cannot not enter the house, touch absolutely nothing while inside, speak to their elderly parents from a distance of more than 2 metres and leave the house again without touching anything? Surely this is safe or am I missing something?

Heard someone say the living space can keep the virus up to 72 hours, so by speaking or breathing you could potentially spread it around the room.

There's more experts on that to inform you better

Research suggests If someone coughs or sneezes without covering then the Infected droplets can stay suspended in the air for 3 hours. When we sneeze or cough the droplets travel at 100 mph and reach a distance of 6ft.

Coronavirus can live on cardboard for 24hrs.

Coronavirus can live on plastic/metal etc for 3 days.

Coronavirus can live on fabrics for 4 hours.

Coronavirus can live on skin/hair for 20 minutes.

All of this is at room temperature of course.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 27, 2020, 12:05:56 AM
Quote from: trileacman on March 26, 2020, 11:35:43 PM
People need to stop taking it as an absolute fact that standing 2m apart, leaving at 14 minutes and the virus dies at exactly 20 hours on stainless steel.

Theses are not strict rules. Like everything they are open to variation. Some people will spread droplets further than 2m. Some people will infect people within one minute of contact. The virus will live for over 20 hours on some steel surfaces and live less on others.

Exactly. The precautionary principle applies here. When I venture out to the shops I throw on a mask. I don't know if it does much good or not but I'm taking no chances. The wife takes the wee one out a few times a day for walks, and I make sure they both wash their hands when they get in. I also throw the baby's trousers straight into laundry because she has a tendency to drop to the ground (she's just started walking).And I wash my own hands after touching their clothes or anything that's been outside. Letters in the post? Amazon packages? All of it gets a wipe. Even last week I was scared to send a Mother's Day card back to Ireland, so we moistened the envelope with a sponge rather than my tongue, and we put it in the freezer overnight before posting it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 27, 2020, 06:55:57 AM
https://www.derryjournal.com/news/uk-news/eastwood-urgent-clarity-needed-support-border-workforce-2519393

This could be a big issue here in Derry, it will feck me anyway. I think there are at around 5k Derry folk working in Donegal and living in Derry(1.3k in my work alone)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on March 27, 2020, 08:18:43 AM
Is it one metre or two ?

There are so many different governing bodies saying different things , in construction you have Unite trade union saying all sites should close , Siptu say nothing , ICTU have called on definition of essential sites and don't get me started on CIF and partland , horrible cookers who we the workforce pay a substantial amount of money to every week for a shitty pension
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 27, 2020, 08:47:37 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on March 26, 2020, 11:28:25 PM
One piece of advice we are getting is to avoid the elderly over 70. So on social media we are seeing images of people talking to their parents through the window or standing at the open back door and talking to them who are standing inside the door
Can anyone explain to me why anyone cannot not enter the house, touch absolutely nothing while inside, speak to their elderly parents from a distance of more than 2 metres and leave the house again without touching anything? Surely this is safe or am I missing something?

Its all about risk. If you do that then the risk is very low (if  you can be as disciplined as you say). However, if you were outside, coughed into your hand and touched a door handle inside well then that is a different matter. The 2 meter rule is risk vrs cost measurement. Particles from a sneeze can travel much more than 2m but if the government said 6m then that would be just unworkable in places that need to keep working. None of  this is exact science. I am sure they have developed some formula that says 2m covers 95% of scenarios and it wasnt just dreamed up.

Adding to that, no matter how disciplined people are you will always slip up and make a mistake, take your eye of the ball and the mind drifts and before you know it you've been touching something. That is why the advise is to avoid people if at all possible. I think regarding your own elderly parents, that is a call you need to make yourself, but remember if they are over 80 and get this virus they are at an extremely high risk of death.

Average age of the 19 people in  the republic is 79 (81 in Italy). Seems to be 70% men in Ireland and 75% men in Italy. So those stats are very close and I think it is reasonable to assume Italy is not an outlier and is reality if we dont do what we should be doing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 27, 2020, 08:59:09 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 27, 2020, 08:47:37 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on March 26, 2020, 11:28:25 PM
One piece of advice we are getting is to avoid the elderly over 70. So on social media we are seeing images of people talking to their parents through the window or standing at the open back door and talking to them who are standing inside the door
Can anyone explain to me why anyone cannot not enter the house, touch absolutely nothing while inside, speak to their elderly parents from a distance of more than 2 metres and leave the house again without touching anything? Surely this is safe or am I missing something?

Its all about risk. If you do that then the risk is very low (if  you can be as disciplined as you say). However, if you were outside, coughed into your hand and touched a door handle inside well then that is a different matter. The 2 meter rule is risk vrs cost measurement. Particles from a sneeze can travel much more than 2m but if the government said 6m then that would be just unworkable in places that need to keep working. None of  this is exact science. I am sure they have developed some formula that says 2m covers 95% of scenarios and it wasnt just dreamed up.

Adding to that, no matter how disciplined people are you will always slip up and make a mistake, take your eye of the ball and the mind drifts and before you know it you've been touching something. That is why the advise is to avoid people if at all possible. I think regarding your own elderly parents, that is a call you need to make yourself, but remember if they are over 80 and get this virus they are at an extremely high risk of death.

Average age of the 19 people in  the republic is 79 (81 in Italy). Seems to be 70% men in Ireland and 75% men in Italy. So those stats are very close and I think it is reasonable to assume Italy is not an outlier and is reality if we dont do what we should be doing.
Italy is just ahead of the curve
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on March 27, 2020, 10:56:39 AM
I would say touching post, door handles of public places, bin handles, petrol pumps, money handling etc are the main sources of contamination, rather than airborne issues as all these things are touched by multiple thousands of people.

Something as simple as going shopping for the groceries gives so many opportunities to pick up the virus it is unbelievable, you need to have a very regimented routine of wiping your hands every single time you touch an item in the shop before you have the chance to touch your face and sanitising each item when you get it home before you put it away or use it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 27, 2020, 11:08:30 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 27, 2020, 10:56:39 AM
I would say touching post, door handles of public places, bin handles, petrol pumps, money handling etc are the main sources of contamination, rather than airborne issues as all these things are touched by multiple thousands of people.

Something as simple as going shopping for the groceries gives so many opportunities to pick up the virus it is unbelievable, you need to have a very regimented routine of wiping your hands every single time you touch an item in the shop before you have the chance to touch your face and sanitising each item when you get it home before you put it away or use it.

Not to lead people into a false sense of security but I have found going into supermarkets lately that people just aren't coughing much. Maybe it's because of the stigma that is now attached to it but I for one like it - an open coughi s one of those noises that irritates me because you know somewhere a person has made no attempt to cough into their arm/sleeve even their hands.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on March 27, 2020, 11:22:10 AM
Boris has confirmed that he has tested positive

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1243496858095411200?s=20 (https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1243496858095411200?s=20)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 27, 2020, 11:32:11 AM
Quote from: JohnDenver on March 27, 2020, 11:22:10 AM
Boris has confirmed that he has tested positive

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1243496858095411200?s=20 (https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1243496858095411200?s=20)

That'll be the advice he gave about shaking hands and how he was continuing to do it with everyone he met in hospital  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 27, 2020, 11:39:13 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 27, 2020, 11:08:30 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 27, 2020, 10:56:39 AM
I would say touching post, door handles of public places, bin handles, petrol pumps, money handling etc are the main sources of contamination, rather than airborne issues as all these things are touched by multiple thousands of people.

Something as simple as going shopping for the groceries gives so many opportunities to pick up the virus it is unbelievable, you need to have a very regimented routine of wiping your hands every single time you touch an item in the shop before you have the chance to touch your face and sanitising each item when you get it home before you put it away or use it.

Not to lead people into a false sense of security but I have found going into supermarkets lately that people just aren't coughing much. Maybe it's because of the stigma that is now attached to it but I for one like it - an open coughi s one of those noises that irritates me because you know somewhere a person has made no attempt to cough into their arm/sleeve even their hands.

We are coming out of the cold and flu season anyway and of course the social distancing reduces the transmission of these also.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 27, 2020, 11:56:27 AM
Quote from: JohnDenver on March 27, 2020, 11:22:10 AM
Boris has confirmed that he has tested positive

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1243496858095411200?s=20 (https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1243496858095411200?s=20)
Any chance he'd visit and shake hands with the pile of shite in the White House?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on March 27, 2020, 12:21:08 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on March 26, 2020, 10:38:07 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on March 26, 2020, 08:50:30 PM
See below from Eamon Mccann.
Still think Robin Swan is doing a good job? I don't.
We are under prepared and not doing enough to get prepared for this surge.


The Tories ordered 10,000 ventilators from Dyson. The North is to get only 600. Nurses and health workers here said our health service was one of the least prepared to deal with this crisis. We need thousands of ventilators not hundreds.

Last week Minister of Heath Robin Swann said he'd ordered 40 for a total in the North of 179. Pathetic!

Yesterday he announced 650 were being ordered. There's clearly no understanding of the threat people face and no clear leadership coming from Westminster or the Stormont Executive. This will cost lives. And this is made all the more disastrous given there is one of the biggest ventilator manufacturers in the world making them in Galway.

Another clear example of how an integrated all-Ireland public health strategy could save lives.

We need to keep shouting very loud for urgent action.

We need thousands of ventilators and we can get them.

Look I'm by no stretch of the imagination his biggest fan but he took the role 10 weeks ago after years of neglect & your expecting him to have been prepared for the biggest health crisis we've ever faced?

I dare say T Brick he'd gladly swap places with you!

Also do you expect the NI Executive to be seeking out Dyson? And if they got these 1000's of ventilators where will they put them - the ICU room capacity is not there to accommodate them!

The scale of this is incomprehensible - you've the NHS trying to source 40,000sq meters of space in numerous locations around the country!

The public sector here is not dynamic to deal with this hence all the pleas with private business to work together - and that's the only way we're all going to get through this - everyone working as one!

I think Robin Swann is out of his depth completely, though I don't necessarily mean that in a detrimental way. I think most people would be out of their depth currently, but personally I hardly ever heard of him before this crisis so not sure he'd have been the right person to steer our response on this issue.

This is what I said yesterday. After posting there were quite a few posts on here saying they thought he was doing a good job. Eamon McCann's article adds some weight to my view (though Eamon can be blinkered in his views).

My point was not meant to be one to lambast Swann at a personal level. I simply think its a post that a more seasoned and experienced minister should be doing and perhaps we'd have a better response as a result and ultimately more people would survive.
I absolutely appreciate he's under a lot of pressure here that is unprecedented, however, a more experienced minister should be able to handle that better and as a result make better decisions.

If our experts, nurses and doctors, are saying we are under prepared, I'd be expecting our health minister to do everything in his power to prepare us. Not waiting to see what Westminister are going to do for us. Why not buy ventilators of a supplier in Galway? Why not source their own PPE? Why not do more testing in line with WHO recommendations? You ask where we'd put these ventilators....well there are field hospitals on their way to each trust area in NI. We have several hospitals that were "closed", Dungannon, Magherafelt, Omagh (I think). They could all be re-designated as Covid centres.
I've seen some talk about us not having the ability to process tests here and that's part of the reason we are not testing more. In ROI, the government has engaged the universities and other private companies with the facilities to process tests. Why are we not doing the same?
It's either negligence or lack of ability. The cost will not be his career, it will be the lives of the people here.

Our health service was already on its knees here, so we are already playing catch up on the rest of the UK. This means we have more work to do, but instead it looks and feels like we are doing less than everyone else to prepare.

I must admit, I was impressed that he said he'd accept help from the Irish armed forces. That at least shows capacity to put aside party politics to accept help from wherever it is offered. That's the approach that needs to be taken. Lets look at all the resources we can access, along with what ever BoJo decides is best for England.

Swann has now said that he doesn't know what our health service will look like in a week. That is very honest, however, it is very worrying too. He should have some idea of what we are doing and what we are going to go through.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on March 27, 2020, 12:28:12 PM
There are no minimum qualifications to be a politician. Robin Swann has a maths degree , so he has a capability to crunch numbers . Health expertise= none.  Is Boris any different?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on March 27, 2020, 12:32:50 PM
Quote from: delgany on March 27, 2020, 12:28:12 PM
There are no minimum qualifications to be a politician. Robin Swann has a maths degree , so he has a capability to crunch numbers . Health expertise= none.  Is Boris any different?

Don't start me on that clown.
Swann seems to be a decent chap and has showed some integrity....couldn't say the same for BoJo.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on March 27, 2020, 12:40:25 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 26, 2020, 11:38:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2020, 11:33:06 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on March 26, 2020, 11:28:25 PM
One piece of advice we are getting is to avoid the elderly over 70. So on social media we are seeing images of people talking to their parents through the window or standing at the open back door and talking to them who are standing inside the door
Can anyone explain to me why anyone cannot not enter the house, touch absolutely nothing while inside, speak to their elderly parents from a distance of more than 2 metres and leave the house again without touching anything? Surely this is safe or am I missing something?

Heard someone say the living space can keep the virus up to 72 hours, so by speaking or breathing you could potentially spread it around the room.

There's more experts on that to inform you better

Research suggests If someone coughs or sneezes without covering then the Infected droplets can stay suspended in the air for 3 hours. When we sneeze or cough the droplets travel at 100 mph and reach a distance of 6ft.

Coronavirus can live on cardboard for 24hrs.

Coronavirus can live on plastic/metal etc for 3 days.

Coronavirus can live on fabrics for 4 hours.

Coronavirus can live on skin/hair for 20 minutes.

All of this is at room temperature of course.

Reading that, what chance do you really have of not coming into contact with it!  Scary
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 27, 2020, 12:42:45 PM
That's why I think that oxford research could be closer to being right.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 27, 2020, 01:08:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 27, 2020, 12:42:45 PM
That's why I think that oxford research could be closer to being right.

But then why was there not a massive spike in people with respiratory problems in January, and why was February's initial growth so slow? (in both absolute and relative terms)

The evidence to date simply doesn't support the Oxford assumptions. It *may* work out that exposure is vastly more than anticipated - but then there is the question of why were so many older people not susceptible in Jan/Feb, but are in Mar/Apr?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 27, 2020, 01:15:41 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 27, 2020, 01:08:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 27, 2020, 12:42:45 PM
That's why I think that oxford research could be closer to being right.

But then why was there not a massive spike in people with respiratory problems in January, and why was February's initial growth so slow? (in both absolute and relative terms)

The evidence to date simply doesn't support the Oxford assumptions.

We don't have just 11,600 cases in the UK at present. Nowhere near.

Even if we based it off 11,600 cases with a average infection rate of 2 to 3 people. That means for every 1 person from the 11k already infected another 2 or 3 people will get it and then the vicious cycle continues with the next person.

Therefore if one person gets it another 3 people will get it. Each of those three people who have got it will the. Spread it to another 3 people. You can see from that example how it can quickly get out of control.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: the goal was on on March 27, 2020, 01:21:59 PM
So Boris gets it now.Wee bit suspicious of this. Like who sticks  a suit on when they get a high temperature.  I suppose the twat was running around laughing about shaking hands with people with corona virus a few weeks ago!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 27, 2020, 01:35:56 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on March 27, 2020, 01:21:59 PM
So Boris gets it now.Wee bit suspicious of this. Like who sticks  a suit on when they get a high temperature.  I suppose the twat was running around laughing about shaking hands with people with corona virus a few weeks ago!


Now Hancock as well..

I'd be surprised if Raab didn't have it a week or so a go when he was sweating like a pig and coughing away in Parliament during PM's questions!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on March 27, 2020, 01:59:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 27, 2020, 01:35:56 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on March 27, 2020, 01:21:59 PM
So Boris gets it now.Wee bit suspicious of this. Like who sticks  a suit on when they get a high temperature.  I suppose the twat was running around laughing about shaking hands with people with corona virus a few weeks ago!


Now Hancock as well..

I'd be surprised if Raab didn't have it a week or so a go when he was sweating like a pig and coughing away in Parliament during PM's questions!

In all seriousness, what would happen of the government, or even cabinet, were more or less wiped out by this?
In a doomsday scenario, lets say they all get Covid at the same time and most can't function and some ministers die. What's the process for re-constituting government?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 27, 2020, 02:01:48 PM
Id say we hardly notice. Half joking.

Sure its the boyos behind the scenes runnin the show anyways..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aaron Boone on March 27, 2020, 02:04:09 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on March 27, 2020, 01:59:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 27, 2020, 01:35:56 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on March 27, 2020, 01:21:59 PM
So Boris gets it now.Wee bit suspicious of this. Like who sticks  a suit on when they get a high temperature.  I suppose the twat was running around laughing about shaking hands with people with corona virus a few weeks ago!


Now Hancock as well..

I'd be surprised if Raab didn't have it a week or so a go when he was sweating like a pig and coughing away in Parliament during PM's questions!

In all seriousness, what would happen of the government, or even cabinet, were more or less wiped out by this?
In a doomsday scenario, lets say they all get Covid at the same time and most can't function and some ministers die. What's the process for re-constituting government?

It's time for Her Majesty to step up to the plate, years of experience.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 27, 2020, 02:05:39 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on March 27, 2020, 01:59:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 27, 2020, 01:35:56 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on March 27, 2020, 01:21:59 PM
So Boris gets it now.Wee bit suspicious of this. Like who sticks  a suit on when they get a high temperature.  I suppose the twat was running around laughing about shaking hands with people with corona virus a few weeks ago!


Now Hancock as well..

I'd be surprised if Raab didn't have it a week or so a go when he was sweating like a pig and coughing away in Parliament during PM's questions!

In all seriousness, what would happen of the government, or even cabinet, were more or less wiped out by this?
In a doomsday scenario, lets say they all get Covid at the same time and most can't function and some ministers die. What's the process for re-constituting government?

The British don't have a coded constitution. It would be something with no precedent but assume the opposition would be invited to form an intermediate government prior to an election. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 27, 2020, 02:07:23 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 27, 2020, 02:01:48 PM
Id say we hardly notice. Half joking.

Sure its the boyos behind the scenes runnin the show anyways..

Cummins seen running from Downing Street earlier.

https://news.sky.com/video/prime-ministers-chief-adviser-in-a-hurry-after-his-boss-reveals-he-has-coronavirus-11964540 (https://news.sky.com/video/prime-ministers-chief-adviser-in-a-hurry-after-his-boss-reveals-he-has-coronavirus-11964540)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 27, 2020, 02:11:20 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 27, 2020, 02:05:39 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on March 27, 2020, 01:59:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 27, 2020, 01:35:56 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on March 27, 2020, 01:21:59 PM
So Boris gets it now.Wee bit suspicious of this. Like who sticks  a suit on when they get a high temperature.  I suppose the twat was running around laughing about shaking hands with people with corona virus a few weeks ago!


Now Hancock as well..

I'd be surprised if Raab didn't have it a week or so a go when he was sweating like a pig and coughing away in Parliament during PM's questions!

In all seriousness, what would happen of the government, or even cabinet, were more or less wiped out by this?
In a doomsday scenario, lets say they all get Covid at the same time and most can't function and some ministers die. What's the process for re-constituting government?

The British don't have a coded constitution. It would be something with no precedent but assume the opposition would be invited to form an intermediate government prior to an election.
Unless it wiped out their majority I would say the remaining Tory MPs or the Tory party members would select their new PM.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 27, 2020, 02:12:09 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 27, 2020, 01:15:41 PMWe don't have just 11,600 cases in the UK at present. Nowhere near.

Ach, I know that!

Its the serious cases that also should have ramped up earlier based on Oxford. We can compare across those as they won't have gone undiagnosed.

The ratio of mild to serious is more or less consistent - perhaps even tending toward a lower proportion of cases being serious as a virus tends to mutate to a more benign form.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 27, 2020, 02:13:35 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on March 27, 2020, 01:59:15 PM
In all seriousness, what would happen of the government, or even cabinet, were more or less wiped out by this?
In a doomsday scenario, lets say they all get Covid at the same time and most can't function and some ministers die. What's the process for re-constituting government?

Lizzie could just hand authority to the silly servants.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 27, 2020, 02:16:31 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 27, 2020, 01:08:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 27, 2020, 12:42:45 PM
That's why I think that oxford research could be closer to being right.

But then why was there not a massive spike in people with respiratory problems in January, and why was February's initial growth so slow? (in both absolute and relative terms)

The evidence to date simply doesn't support the Oxford assumptions. It *may* work out that exposure is vastly more than anticipated - but then there is the question of why were so many older people not susceptible in Jan/Feb, but are in Mar/Apr?

There is no evidence of very much though. As someone said the UK don't have 11,600 cases it is way more than that. A significant magnitude more.

I can't answer it but it's more on gut feel to be honest but there is no evidence to back up anything in any of this as we don't know how many are infected and even in Italy or China we don't know that so every single stat you see on this is signifcantly skewed. Mortality rates are probably way lower and actual cases way higher. (Both by the same magnitude in opposite directions obviously).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 27, 2020, 02:24:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 27, 2020, 02:12:09 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 27, 2020, 01:15:41 PMWe don't have just 11,600 cases in the UK at present. Nowhere near.

Ach, I know that!

Its the serious cases that also should have ramped up earlier based on Oxford. We can compare across those as they won't have gone undiagnosed.

The ratio of mild to serious is more or less consistent - perhaps even tending toward a lower proportion of cases being serious as a virus tends to mutate to a more benign form.

Too many factors could be responsible for the lack of increases in hospitalisations so far.

Not long ago patients who have Coronavirus would have been sent home by GP's thinking it was just a common cold/flu. Healthcare workers were not aware of any cases. Now that they are aware of Coronavirus and the threat is now real and with more awareness there is more testing.

Just think if 1 person brought Coronavirus to UK undetected but had managed to infect 5/6 people on the flight, it's going to spread rapidly.

Perhaps people in Italy and Spain are more likely to be around people because the weather is warmish and go outside. In Ireland and UK people are more likely to stay indoors and contact with others is minimised. Then you have to factor in cultural differences in how the likes of Italy, Spain and France greet each other, it's more physical than here.

It could be that 500,000 are infected without knowing it from attending football games (I think a study in Iceland has identified 40 different strains of Covid 19 and traced 4 back to football games in England). Elderly people aren't as likely to attend such events and we are probably likely to see them being hospitalised in the coming days.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on March 27, 2020, 02:43:38 PM
what about the risk of workers in supermarkets,etc that are infected (maybe not that sick) but don't self isolate (or refuse to) because they will only get ssp for the time they are off? this is bound to be happening in some businesses  :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 27, 2020, 02:45:59 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 27, 2020, 02:12:09 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 27, 2020, 01:15:41 PMWe don't have just 11,600 cases in the UK at present. Nowhere near.

Ach, I know that!

Its the serious cases that also should have ramped up earlier based on Oxford. We can compare across those as they won't have gone undiagnosed.

The ratio of mild to serious is more or less consistent - perhaps even tending toward a lower proportion of cases being serious as a virus tends to mutate to a more benign form.
Oxford was a theory based on an untested model. They developed a theory and are now looking for evidence to back it up. Ar5e about face. Look at evidence then formulate a theory.

To provide the necessary evidence, the Oxford group is working with colleagues at the Universities of Cambridge and Kent to start antibody testing on the general population as soon as possible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 27, 2020, 02:49:32 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/27/world/europe/coronavirus-italy-bergamo.html

If 50% of the U.K. has been infected since January, why are there no clusters like this in the U.K.? Horrifying scenes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on March 27, 2020, 03:04:36 PM
There is a cluster in the west Midlands, in the Sikh and Muslim elders communities around wolverhampton. They have issues with social isolating
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 27, 2020, 03:09:35 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 27, 2020, 02:49:32 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/27/world/europe/coronavirus-italy-bergamo.html

If 50% of the U.K. has been infected since January, why are there no clusters like this in the U.K.? Horrifying scenes.

Sadly, in recent days it has been just as bad  in Madrid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 27, 2020, 03:13:47 PM
London could well be heading that way too :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 27, 2020, 03:15:17 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 27, 2020, 03:13:47 PM
London could well be heading that way too :(

and also New York.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 27, 2020, 03:32:21 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 27, 2020, 02:24:05 PM
Too many factors could be responsible for the lack of increases in hospitalisations so far.

Sorry, but I consider that sentence a cop out. There could be something fundamentally different about it in the UK, but there is nothing to support that.

Based on what is known about COVID-19 at the moment:
- GPs sending people home would stop when the people they sent home start dying of pneumonia in significant numbers. Furthermore, post mortems would have been carried out as a matter of urgency given the awareness of COVID-19 in Wuhan at the middle of January.

- Climate will affect spread - but won't really affect severity*. Its the severity coupled to spread that does not make sense in the Oxford model. Furthermore, reduced spread would be contrary to what Oxford are claiming.

- Again, an explosion of cases due to a mass gathering won't affect severity. Perhaps there is a more benign form of it running around parts of the UK, but there is no basis for that based on evidence elsewhere. At the moment that little more than unfounded speculation.


*exceptions for hay fever etc, but we aren't at that stage of the year yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 27, 2020, 03:42:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2020, 03:15:17 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 27, 2020, 03:13:47 PM
London could well be heading that way too :(

and also New York.

The brother tested positive for CV-19 in NYC.

Went down to his GP's as normal, he'd pneumonia as well.

Sent home to self isolate and a few meds.

Rang his boss to tell him he'd tested positive for it whilst working in Manhattan on a floor with 100 other lads (construction) and the boss told him none of the others have complained so business as usual.....

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 27, 2020, 03:44:37 PM
That is borderline criminal negligence. Every one of them will go home spread etc as people know. It is attitudes like that that have and will continue to make this thing as bad as it is.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 27, 2020, 03:48:12 PM
Given the UK have buried the heads in the sand and wont test surely the best way to look at models/how serious it is is to look at deaths per population (ie 2 per million etc).

Naturally it depends at what stage it is at but this would be a more realistic version of where countries are at
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 27, 2020, 03:50:12 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 27, 2020, 03:44:37 PM
That is borderline criminal negligence. Every one of them will go home spread etc as people know. It is attitudes like that that have and will continue to make this thing as bad as it is.

But it seems it's an all too common mindset both sides of the pond!

It'll be too late once the ICU's are at breaking point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 27, 2020, 03:51:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 27, 2020, 03:42:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2020, 03:15:17 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 27, 2020, 03:13:47 PM
London could well be heading that way too :(

and also New York.

The brother tested positive for CV-19 in NYC.

Went down to his GP's as normal, he'd pneumonia as well.

Sent home to self isolate and a few meds.

Rang his boss to tell him he'd tested positive for it whilst working in Manhattan on a floor with 100 other lads (construction) and the boss told him none of the others have complained so business as usual.....

Construction is going full steam ahead in NYC.

Its crazy, and many of the lads involved are obviously not too happy.

Hope your brother comes through ok. The hospitals here are getting very dicey.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 27, 2020, 03:53:46 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 27, 2020, 03:32:21 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 27, 2020, 02:24:05 PM
Too many factors could be responsible for the lack of increases in hospitalisations so far.

Sorry, but I consider that sentence a cop out. There could be something fundamentally different about it in the UK, but there is nothing to support that.

Based on what is known about COVID-19 at the moment:
- GPs sending people home would stop when the people they sent home start dying of pneumonia in significant numbers. Furthermore, post mortems would have been carried out as a matter of urgency given the awareness of COVID-19 in Wuhan at the middle of January.

- Climate will affect spread - but won't really affect severity*. Its the severity coupled to spread that does not make sense in the Oxford model. Furthermore, reduced spread would be contrary to what Oxford are claiming.

- Again, an explosion of cases due to a mass gathering won't affect severity. Perhaps there is a more benign form of it running around parts of the UK, but there is no basis for that based on evidence elsewhere. At the moment that little more than unfounded speculation.


*exceptions for hay fever etc, but we aren't at that stage of the year yet.

If you have ever done research you will know that it is impossible to account for all factors, especially at this time when there's more emphasis on controlling it. It's not as simple as looking at relationships such as the hotter it is the more ice creams are bought.

Genetics, culture, underlying conditions, virus mutation, immunity, age, gender, exposure to the virus, social distancing, travelling, diet, medication, air quality, lifestyle, pregnancy.... These are all factors that are to be considered. Why? Because the virus is new and nothing is known about it. Something as trivial as taking ibuprofen has been implicated in complications of Coronavirus and undoubtedly there will be more.

With regards to GPs sending patients home - this would have happened before the awareness of the virus. Deaths that have occurred before the outbreak could have been contributed to Pneumonia complications as a result of influenza. Dying from the flu most people wouldn't think twice about it, it happens. We won't know if this was in society before the first reported cases it shortly after because it wouldn't be an appropriate use of resources testing dead people. Germany aren't testing dead people for the virus and are instead using them on people who are alive which is probably why they have so few reported deaths considering they have +30k diagnosed. That may change soon.

On another note how many people do you think have died of Flu in the last few weeks? I bet there have been quite a few. I fully support lockdown being implemented because not a lot is known about CV at present and people should be worried yet remain calm. The only thing you can do is what has been suggested.

There have already been two strains of Coronavirus confirmed worldwide. Perhaps we are experiencing the less severe strain. In fact Iceland have identified 40 mutations of the virus and can link them back to their places of origin.

The model Oxford have used isn't rigorous but other models will have their flaws too. It will be interesting to see the results of the study for when the population is tested for antibodies.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walt Jabsco on March 27, 2020, 04:40:47 PM
What are the chances of London going into total lock down in the next few days?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 27, 2020, 04:42:46 PM
Not sure about the next few days but I think it'll happen and will happen here too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 27, 2020, 04:44:42 PM
Italy with 919 deaths in the last 24 hours!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rich Ricci on March 27, 2020, 04:46:11 PM
180 odd deaths in UK. 919 in Italy.

UK deaths could be scary this next time week.

*not that 180 in a day isn't scary
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 27, 2020, 04:51:13 PM
For those of us that do survive COVID-19 I think we have to take into consideration the damage it does to the lung's long term and how it will effect our ability to fight respiratory illnesses in the future.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 27, 2020, 04:53:20 PM
700 odd in Spain.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 27, 2020, 04:55:53 PM
Quote from: Rich Ricci on March 27, 2020, 04:46:11 PM
180 odd deaths in UK. 919 in Italy.

UK deaths could be scary this next time week.

*not that 180 in a day isn't scary

It's coming :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 27, 2020, 04:58:28 PM
Quote from: Rich Ricci on March 27, 2020, 04:46:11 PM
180 deaths odd in UK. 919 in Italy.

UK deaths could be scary this next time week.

*not that 180 in a day isn't scary

And 769 in Spain, which would have been a record if the Italians had not broken their own record.
But even the Netherlands has had 112 deaths and it was hardly on the radar a couple of weeks ago (I was supposed to go there last week and had been reading about it).

However, it is also clear that some employers here have refused to get on board, Linden foods in Dungannon was mentioned. How hard is it to stagger breaks, ensure there are queues at start and end of work and provide some washing facilities?  After this all premises should have adequate washing facilities even if they remain partly unused.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on March 27, 2020, 05:03:55 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2020, 05:46:21 PM
What's the thoughts on the chancellor's announcement?

I fall in between the cracks as have only been self employed for a few months. Feel sick  :-\

Wife's in the same boat, out on her own since November. Won't get a penny either because of savings.

I don't know why they can't go back and look at an individuals last 3 years P60's . So many people getting shafted, I'd have always classed those who are the sole director in a ltd company as self employed. Everyone I know who's out on their own and off the top of my head I can think of about 20 people and their all sole director ltd companies.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 27, 2020, 05:07:05 PM
Quote from: Rich Ricci on March 27, 2020, 04:46:11 PM
180 odd deaths in UK. 919 in Italy.

UK deaths could be scary this next time week.

*not that 180 in a day isn't scary
the UK seems to be 2 weeks behind Italy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 27, 2020, 05:07:37 PM
F88k sake.

I don't want to get drawn into one of these about something that is all wrong.

Quote from: Solo_run on March 27, 2020, 03:53:46 PM
If you have ever done research you will know that it is impossible to account for all factors, especially at this time when there's more emphasis on controlling it. It's not as simple as looking at relationships such as the hotter it is the more ice creams are bought.

I've a phd. I know how to separate the wheat from the chaff thank you very much.

Quote from: Solo_run on March 27, 2020, 03:53:46 PM
Genetics, culture, underlying conditions, virus mutation, immunity, age, gender, exposure to the virus, social distancing, travelling, diet, medication, air quality, lifestyle, pregnancy.... These are all factors that are to be considered. Why? Because the virus is new and nothing is known about it. Something as trivial as taking ibuprofen has been implicated in complications of Coronavirus and undoubtedly there will be more.

Yes, all factors - yet not one of the bolded ones are either relevant or real.
Those not bolded are not significant when considered in the context of comparing the UK vs Italy. Or France vs. Italy. Or the rest of China vs Wuhan.

Factors affect details. In some cases the details can add up to something comprehensive - but the chances of that here are tending to zero.

Please keep in mind - the biggest issue with the Oxford model is the curve of critical cases as observed now. It simply cannot be reconciled with a significant degree of exposure occurring across the population in January/February.

Quote from: Solo_run on March 27, 2020, 03:53:46 PM
With regards to GPs sending patients home - this would have happened before the awareness of the virus.

So December to early January?

What happens from mid January to start of March?


Quote from: Solo_run on March 27, 2020, 03:53:46 PM
Deaths that have occurred before the outbreak could have been contributed to Pneumonia complications as a result of influenza.

That is simply not credible man.

For the Oxford projection, the curve of pneumonia related deaths would be advanced by several weeks - back into early February. Do you really think significant numbers (of the order of hundreds/day) would have died of pneumonia without an autopsy and post-mortem revealing COVID-19? Particularly given the WHO released their preliminary report and accompanying warnings at the end of Jan?

Come on FFS!

Quote from: Solo_run on March 27, 2020, 03:53:46 PM
On another note how many people do you think have died of Flu in the last few weeks? I bet there have been quite a few. I fully support lockdown being implemented because not a lot is known about CV at present and people should be worried yet remain calm. The only thing you can do is what has been suggested.

Died of flu or died of viral infection with respiratory problems?

The common flu does not present in the same manner as COVID-19.

Quote from: Solo_run on March 27, 2020, 03:53:46 PM
There have already been two strains of Coronavirus confirmed worldwide. Perhaps we are experiencing the less severe strain. In fact Iceland have identified 40 mutations of the virus and can link them back to their places of origin.

Very unlikely we aren't getting the same strain as Italy given the amount of people coming back from ski holidays that then were not quarantined by the idiotic government.

Furthermore, and most unfortunately, there is a body of thought that getting one strain does not develop immunity to the second strain. There have been observed cases of people getting it twice, and that is one of the postulations on the matter.

Quote from: Solo_run on March 27, 2020, 03:53:46 PM
The model Oxford have used isn't rigorous but other models will have their flaws too. It will be interesting to see the results of the study for when the population is tested for antibodies.

Did you read the paper?

Do you understand their assumptions?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 05:19:25 PM
Has there been cases of people who are immune to this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 27, 2020, 05:23:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 05:19:25 PM
Has there been cases of people who are immune to this?

Natural immunity?

Not to my knowledge. I'm not even sure its possible - either you have the antibodies or you don't.

But then we wouldn't know at this point anyway. They'd have beat it off without showing any symptoms so it'd take a detailed analysis when its all calmed down to prove that either way - if its even possible to prove.


I suppose, once the anti-body test is developed - you could test a swath of people you know for sure have not been exposed - and then you can see if any of them have the antibodies. Can't see anyone bothering as its astronomical odds of a clear positive without being bigger questions around quality of isolation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 27, 2020, 05:50:21 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on March 27, 2020, 01:59:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 27, 2020, 01:35:56 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on March 27, 2020, 01:21:59 PM
So Boris gets it now.Wee bit suspicious of this. Like who sticks  a suit on when they get a high temperature.  I suppose the twat was running around laughing about shaking hands with people with corona virus a few weeks ago!


Now Hancock as well..

I'd be surprised if Raab didn't have it a week or so a go when he was sweating like a pig and coughing away in Parliament during PM's questions!

In all seriousness, what would happen of the government, or even cabinet, were more or less wiped out by this?
In a doomsday scenario, lets say they all get Covid at the same time and most can't function and some ministers die. What's the process for re-constituting government?

Kiefer Sutherland takes the reigns
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 27, 2020, 06:22:40 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0327/1126691-coronavirus-ireland/

NPHET is particularly concerned about clusters of infection in health care settings, including at least nine nursing homes, eight hospitals, and two community long-stay environments.

It is also worried about the pattern and the rate of increase in daily Covid-19 admissions to intensive care units and the growing level of community transmission of the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on March 27, 2020, 06:42:00 PM
Over 300 new cases today, biggest daily increase so far.
3 more deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 27, 2020, 06:42:13 PM
302 new cases here (26) today.
3 more deaths.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: An Watcher on March 27, 2020, 07:25:06 PM
Not as easy to find out the number of cases/deaths down South.  Any links?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 27, 2020, 07:31:03 PM
Heard it on the News. 2,121 cases.
Around 400 hospitalised  with 59 in ICU.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 27, 2020, 07:46:36 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on March 27, 2020, 07:25:06 PM
Not as easy to find out the number of cases/deaths down South.  Any links?

The best site. https://www.gov.ie/en/news/7e0924-latest-updates-on-covid-19-coronavirus/#march-27

As of Wednesday 59 people in ICU so must be over 100 now and I think only 250 ICU beds in the ROI?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 08:09:20 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 27, 2020, 07:46:36 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on March 27, 2020, 07:25:06 PM
Not as easy to find out the number of cases/deaths down South.  Any links?

The best site. https://www.gov.ie/en/news/7e0924-latest-updates-on-covid-19-coronavirus/#march-27

As of Wednesday 59 people in ICU so must be over 100 now and I think only 250 ICU beds in the ROI?

Surely having a company making ventilators in Galway it should be difficult to purchase these and increase the numbers
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on March 27, 2020, 08:13:49 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 27, 2020, 07:46:36 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on March 27, 2020, 07:25:06 PM
Not as easy to find out the number of cases/deaths down South.  Any links?

The best site. https://www.gov.ie/en/news/7e0924-latest-updates-on-covid-19-coronavirus/#march-27

As of Wednesday 59 people in ICU so must be over 100 now and I think only 250 ICU beds in the ROI?
Private hospitals have opened up to everyone now so there are more ICU beds available because of it, not sure how many extra though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on March 27, 2020, 08:17:00 PM
Quote from: laoislad on March 27, 2020, 08:13:49 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 27, 2020, 07:46:36 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on March 27, 2020, 07:25:06 PM
Not as easy to find out the number of cases/deaths down South.  Any links?

The best site. https://www.gov.ie/en/news/7e0924-latest-updates-on-covid-19-coronavirus/#march-27

As of Wednesday 59 people in ICU so must be over 100 now and I think only 250 ICU beds in the ROI?
Private hospitals have opened up to everyone now so there are more ICU beds available because of it, not sure how many extra though.

Around 100 extra I think?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on March 27, 2020, 08:18:46 PM
Leo to announce something at 8.30
More restrictions probably.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gaafan2 on March 27, 2020, 08:26:06 PM
https://www.covidvisualizer.com/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on March 27, 2020, 08:48:56 PM
Lockdown it is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: knockitdown on March 27, 2020, 08:52:37 PM
If the (NI) executive has anything about them, they will announce the same. They will be remembered for their decisions in the next 48hrs.

I think it is an unbelievably sensible call from the Irish gov to do this on a Friday evening. There is now no prospect of groups gathering outside that we seen last weekend.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 08:53:55 PM
Quote from: knockitdown on March 27, 2020, 08:52:37 PM
If the (NI) executive has anything about them, they will announce the same. They will be remembered for their decisions in the next 48hrs.

I think it is an unbelievably sensible call from the Irish gov to do this on a Friday evening. There is now no prospect of groups gathering outside that we seen last weekend.

Are we not in lockdown?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: knockitdown on March 27, 2020, 09:00:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 08:53:55 PM
Quote from: knockitdown on March 27, 2020, 08:52:37 PM
If the (NI) executive has anything about them, they will announce the same. They will be remembered for their decisions in the next 48hrs.

I think it is an unbelievably sensible call from the Irish gov to do this on a Friday evening. There is now no prospect of groups gathering outside that we seen last weekend.

Are we not in lockdown?

Not even close
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 09:10:09 PM
Quote from: knockitdown on March 27, 2020, 09:00:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 08:53:55 PM
Quote from: knockitdown on March 27, 2020, 08:52:37 PM
If the (NI) executive has anything about them, they will announce the same. They will be remembered for their decisions in the next 48hrs.

I think it is an unbelievably sensible call from the Irish gov to do this on a Friday evening. There is now no prospect of groups gathering outside that we seen last weekend.

Are we not in lockdown?

Not even close

I actually don't see much different.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on March 27, 2020, 09:27:48 PM
Work is a massive difference.

In ROI all travelling to work, unless it is essential services is banned.

In NI you can travel to your work (doing any job) if you can't do your job from home.
Those are two very different scenarios.

It seems to be a big point of contention between Arlene and Michelle as the latter has said all week that she wants a total lockdown on all bar essential work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on March 27, 2020, 09:38:29 PM
Full list of restrictions here.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0327/1126911-ireland-restrictions-covid19/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 09:46:26 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 27, 2020, 09:27:48 PM
Work is a massive difference.

In ROI all travelling to work, unless it is essential services is banned.

In NI you can travel to your work (doing any job) if you can't do your job from home.
Those are two very different scenarios.

It seems to be a big point of contention between Arlene and Michelle as the latter has said all week that she wants a total lockdown on all bar essential work.

Let's look at the list first. I'm not at work and I'm in medical services! Was speaking to the owner of a engineering firm, he's closed, plenty firms are closed and the hospitality and retail business are closed, there's not much left bar the public sector jobs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on March 27, 2020, 09:52:03 PM
The owner of the engineering firm might have closed, but not because the government are forcing him to close.

That's what is different.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 09:53:27 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 27, 2020, 09:52:03 PM
The owner of the engineering firm might have closed, but not because the government are forcing him to close.

That's what is different.

He closed because he didn't want to endanger his employees ya muppet
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on March 27, 2020, 10:12:06 PM
Can't go 2km from your house, can't visit family except in exceptional circumstances... seems like a lockdown to me compared to the north
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 10:28:57 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on March 27, 2020, 10:12:06 PM
Can't go 2km from your house, can't visit family except in exceptional circumstances... seems like a lockdown to me compared to the north

France adding another two weeks to their lockdown also.

From what I've seen lately people are social distancing and self isolating. My kids don't see friends haven't since the 'lockdown' wife hasn't left house only to walk dogs around the block, I'm doing all the shops.

I think the message is getting there but some builders from my area are still building away, that's my biggest complaint with Boris's lockdown.

It won't be 2 weeks, we are closed till June! Or until it's sorted
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bamboo on March 27, 2020, 10:33:36 PM
Might have been covered already but what's the deal with funerals in the south- if a COVID death?

And what about people wanting to enter the country -from England-  for a funeral?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 27, 2020, 10:35:01 PM
UK still tracking with Italy. It's gonna be bad in 2 weeks.

Place definitely a lot quieter but giving people carte blanche to go the shops is an issue. I heard McAnerney's in Armagh was packed like Christmas today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 27, 2020, 10:47:27 PM
USA hit the 100,000 mark with 14,500 new cases. Everything is bigger in the US, even pandemics.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 27, 2020, 10:35:01 PM
Place definitely a lot quieter but giving people carte blanche to go the shops is an issue. I heard McAnerney's in Armagh was packed like Christmas today.

That is the fault of the shop who should be making them queue in the car park, 2m apart.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 10:51:47 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 27, 2020, 10:35:01 PM
UK still tracking with Italy. It's gonna be bad in 2 weeks.

Place definitely a lot quieter but giving people carte blanche to go the shops is an issue. I heard McAnerney's in Armagh was packed like Christmas today.

I went to Lidil today, they were spaced out the car park, one out, one in. Possibly 15 customers in there at a time, enforced social distancing and everyone wearing gloves, customers and all.

Any outings to shops we put our clothes  in washing machine as soon as we get in through the door!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 27, 2020, 10:56:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 10:51:47 PM
Any outings to shops we put our clothes  in washing machine as soon as we get in through the door!

This time of year I am wearing a coat and the virus only lasts on fabric for 4 hours, so I don't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 11:01:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2020, 10:56:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 10:51:47 PM
Any outings to shops we put our clothes  in washing machine as soon as we get in through the door!

This time of year I am wearing a coat and the virus only lasts on fabric for 4 hours, so I don't.

Wife is watching and listening to all the online experts and news
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 28, 2020, 12:05:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 11:01:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2020, 10:56:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 10:51:47 PM
Any outings to shops we put our clothes  in washing machine as soon as we get in through the door!

This time of year I am wearing a coat and the virus only lasts on fabric for 4 hours, so I don't.

Wife is watching and listening to all the online experts and news

Although 4 hours has been advised and there are ranging times, there's no harm on washing clothes after but as with everything else... Wash your hands after
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 28, 2020, 12:11:16 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 09:53:27 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 27, 2020, 09:52:03 PM
The owner of the engineering firm might have closed, but not because the government are forcing him to close.

That's what is different.

He closed because he didn't want to endanger his employees ya muppet
Are you not agreeing with each other here. Engineering firm made the decision to close to look after his employees, not because he had to. If owner was a Cnut workers would still be in working away. It should not be down to individuals to decide.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 12:37:30 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 28, 2020, 12:05:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 11:01:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2020, 10:56:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 10:51:47 PM
Any outings to shops we put our clothes  in washing machine as soon as we get in through the door!

This time of year I am wearing a coat and the virus only lasts on fabric for 4 hours, so I don't.

Wife is watching and listening to all the online experts and news

Although 4 hours has been advised and there are ranging times, there's no harm on washing clothes after but as with everything else... Wash your hands after

As I do, gloves on gloves binned ! And showered when I came in! Relentless but once it's a habit it's not an inconvenience
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 28, 2020, 12:43:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 12:37:30 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 28, 2020, 12:05:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 11:01:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2020, 10:56:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 10:51:47 PM
Any outings to shops we put our clothes  in washing machine as soon as we get in through the door!

This time of year I am wearing a coat and the virus only lasts on fabric for 4 hours, so I don't.

Wife is watching and listening to all the online experts and news

Although 4 hours has been advised and there are ranging times, there's no harm on washing clothes after but as with everything else... Wash your hands after

As I do, gloves on gloves binned ! And showered when I came in! Relentless but once it's a habit it's not an inconvenience

Did you drive? Did you sterlise the car before you drove it again?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 12:44:37 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 28, 2020, 12:11:16 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 09:53:27 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 27, 2020, 09:52:03 PM
The owner of the engineering firm might have closed, but not because the government are forcing him to close.

That's what is different.

He closed because he didn't want to endanger his employees ya muppet
Are you not agreeing with each other here. Engineering firm made the decision to close to look after his employees, not because he had to. If owner was a Cnut workers would still be in working away. It should not be down to individuals to decide.

He closed because it's the right thing to do, and lots of companies have, they are in hibernation mode and hope to get through it. The government have advised non essential business's close, this is one example of n many that have.  this fella would work through the night, R&D team will probably be working on things while off work!

Spoke to him about the medical side of things, he does some stuff for Randox and I mentioned Ventilators and ICU's closed shop apparently, could never get into it.

Any business that's open that's not essential )offy's on that list I'd say) shouldn't be open, our two local Offys closed Monday!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 12:51:00 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 28, 2020, 12:43:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 12:37:30 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 28, 2020, 12:05:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 11:01:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2020, 10:56:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 10:51:47 PM
Any outings to shops we put our clothes  in washing machine as soon as we get in through the door!

This time of year I am wearing a coat and the virus only lasts on fabric for 4 hours, so I don't.

Wife is watching and listening to all the online experts and news

Although 4 hours has been advised and there are ranging times, there's no harm on washing clothes after but as with everything else... Wash your hands after

As I do, gloves on gloves binned ! And showered when I came in! Relentless but once it's a habit it's not an inconvenience

Did you drive? Did you sterlise the car before you drove it again?

Drive (no daily shopping) and wiped down bags and shopping with alcohol wipes, car only has me in it and I use disposable gloves, binned afterwards. The only safe thing to do is stay in completely. But if I'm using the protective procedures what else can you do? I don't meet anyone but my family. I dropped of food for in-laws at driveway.

Other than walking around in a bubble suit with a 2 metre ring attached to you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on March 28, 2020, 01:56:34 AM
Guys anywhere got disposable gloves, alcohol wipes etc for sale? I can't get any.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dougal Maguire on March 28, 2020, 07:23:01 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 12:51:00 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 28, 2020, 12:43:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 12:37:30 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 28, 2020, 12:05:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 11:01:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2020, 10:56:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 10:51:47 PM
Any outings to shops we put our clothes  in washing machine as soon as we get in through the door!

This time of year I am wearing a coat and the virus only lasts on fabric for 4 hours, so I don't.

Wife is watching and listening to all the online experts and news

Although 4 hours has been advised and there are ranging times, there's no harm on washing clothes after but as with everything else... Wash your hands after

As I do, gloves on gloves binned ! And showered when I came in! Relentless but once it's a habit it's not an inconvenience

Did you drive? Did you sterlise the car before you drove it again?

Drive (no daily shopping) and wiped down bags and shopping with alcohol wipes, car only has me in it and I use disposable gloves, binned afterwards. The only safe thing to do is stay in completely. But if I'm using the protective procedures what else can you do? I don't meet anyone but my family. I dropped of food for in-laws at driveway.

Other than walking around in a bubble suit with a 2 metre ring attached to you.
Sensible precautions. After all if it turns out that being a complete bollix is one of the conditions that makes you vulnerable you'll be straight into the at risk category
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 08:36:19 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 28, 2020, 07:23:01 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 12:51:00 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 28, 2020, 12:43:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 12:37:30 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on March 28, 2020, 12:05:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 11:01:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 27, 2020, 10:56:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2020, 10:51:47 PM
Any outings to shops we put our clothes  in washing machine as soon as we get in through the door!

This time of year I am wearing a coat and the virus only lasts on fabric for 4 hours, so I don't.

Wife is watching and listening to all the online experts and news

Although 4 hours has been advised and there are ranging times, there's no harm on washing clothes after but as with everything else... Wash your hands after

As I do, gloves on gloves binned ! And showered when I came in! Relentless but once it's a habit it's not an inconvenience

Did you drive? Did you sterlise the car before you drove it again?

Drive (no daily shopping) and wiped down bags and shopping with alcohol wipes, car only has me in it and I use disposable gloves, binned afterwards. The only safe thing to do is stay in completely. But if I'm using the protective procedures what else can you do? I don't meet anyone but my family. I dropped of food for in-laws at driveway.

Other than walking around in a bubble suit with a 2 metre ring attached to you.
Sensible precautions. After all if it turns out that being a complete bollix is one of the conditions that makes you vulnerable you'll be straight into the at risk category

Well if you can get it from talking bollox then we are all doomed on here.

As for the gloves I'd a very over sensitive college and she bought four big boxes for work weeks ago, she's two home with her and I've the other two, I was calling her nuts at the time!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 28, 2020, 09:21:20 AM
Uk Times today, Britain (unclear if it means Britain the Island or the UK in this instance tbh) on target for 5,700 deaths from Coronavirus. With the wall to wall doom mongering that all media are delivering that would surely appear very optimistic?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2020, 09:32:39 AM
Wearing gloves is a waste of time imo unless they are worn for a short period of time and then binned. I saw a woman wearing a pair of blue gloves round the shops the other day and when I was putting my shopping in the car I saw her drive off wearing them! There are a lot of VERY stupid people around. In the very same shop all the workers are wearing gloves and it's probably the same pair for long periods of time. Nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 09:43:56 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2020, 09:32:39 AM
Wearing gloves is a waste of time imo unless they are worn for a short period of time and then binned. I saw a woman wearing a pair of blue gloves round the shops the other day and when I was putting my shopping in the car I saw her drive off wearing them! There are a lot of VERY stupid people around. In the very same shop all the workers are wearing gloves and it's probably the same pair for long periods of time. Nonsense.

Agreed, in Lidil the lad was serving everyone with same gloves and touching his face regularly, the muppets lifting items on the shelf no gloves and putting back was done a lot, lift it keep it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 28, 2020, 10:37:54 AM
Gloves could be a reminder to not touch your face for the duration of the trip to the shop and of course you can wash gloves also.
But people find it hard to break the habits of a lifetime.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on March 28, 2020, 01:15:19 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 28, 2020, 09:21:20 AM
Uk Times today, Britain (unclear if it means Britain the Island or the UK in this instance tbh) on target for 5,700 deaths from Coronavirus. With the wall to wall doom mongering that all media are delivering that would surely appear very optimistic?

I recall an interview within the last two weeks - not sure if it was the Chief Medical Officer or not - who stated that the UK suffers 8,000 deaths a year through the flu and that anything less than 20,000 deaths would be a relatively good outcome for the country. 

I have remarked in recent days though cautious words of optimism about the overall trends in confirmed cases, with the hope that we are not following the 'Italian line'.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 28, 2020, 01:44:26 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on March 28, 2020, 01:15:19 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 28, 2020, 09:21:20 AM
Uk Times today, Britain (unclear if it means Britain the Island or the UK in this instance tbh) on target for 5,700 deaths from Coronavirus. With the wall to wall doom mongering that all media are delivering that would surely appear very optimistic?

I recall an interview within the last two weeks - not sure if it was the Chief Medical Officer or not - who stated that the UK suffers 8,000 deaths a year through the flu and that anything less than 20,000 deaths would be a relatively good outcome for the country. 

I have remarked in recent days though cautious words of optimism about the overall trends in confirmed cases, with the hope that we are not following the 'Italian line'.

The model that predicted the 5700 suggested 5 times that for Italy and a shocking 8 or 9 times  that for Spain.
The numbers reflect the difference between keeping your health service more or less within what it can cope with and having to refuse ventilators to people.

I'm not sure if these models only account for the summer period or whether they account for a reboot in November.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 28, 2020, 01:51:03 PM
Gloves should be left for frontline workers who dont have them, same with face masks. Concentrate on washing your hands and not touching your face. Over 50 doctors have died in Italy, they are the people who need PPE.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 28, 2020, 02:00:10 PM
There are some lessons to be learned from this crisis. Having a proper stock of PPE is one of them, any country should have enough for its hosptial staff, GPs, nursing homes, and even for volunteers in the civil defence, Order of Malta etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 03:18:35 PM
Will the natural flu victims fall this year due to the Coronavirus outbreak?

As for not enough PPE no one could ever imagine the scale of PPE required for this as it's never happened to our hospitals. Companies produce this stuff when orders are made, stock can only be held for so long due to warehouse size or storage requirements.

I'd say there are a lot of things that will come out of it that will prepare the place better.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 28, 2020, 03:39:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 03:18:35 PM
Will the natural flu victims fall this year due to the Coronavirus outbreak?

As for not enough PPE no one could ever imagine the scale of PPE required for this as it's never happened to our hospitals. Companies produce this stuff when orders are made, stock can only be held for so long due to warehouse size or storage requirements.

I'd say there are a lot of things that will come out of it that will prepare the place better.

I agree - this is extraordinay.  No one could have predicted it.  I'm sure the health agencies had enough for any emergencies.

But this has been unreal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 28, 2020, 03:40:09 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 28, 2020, 01:51:03 PM
Gloves should be left for frontline workers who dont have them, same with face masks. Concentrate on washing your hands and not touching your face. Over 50 doctors have died in Italy, they are the people who need PPE.
Itchy that's all well and good, but it's not like you can just donate the face masks and gloves to hospitals. The ones most people have wouldn't even be medically approved. We have a pile of masks and gloves in work that we use anyway that staff have been rightly using more off  due to covid 19, but it's not like the hospital would take them off us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 28, 2020, 03:45:12 PM
I see Americas are encouraged to wear face masks when out and about while this side of the world we are told the opposite.

Which is the correct advice, are we told that because healthcare workers would have a big shortage of masks?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 03:45:50 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 28, 2020, 03:40:09 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 28, 2020, 01:51:03 PM
Gloves should be left for frontline workers who dont have them, same with face masks. Concentrate on washing your hands and not touching your face. Over 50 doctors have died in Italy, they are the people who need PPE.
Itchy that's all well and good, but it's not like you can just donate the face masks and gloves to hospitals. The ones most people have wouldn't even be medically approved. We have a pile of masks and gloves in work that we use anyway that staff have been rightly using more off  due to covid 19, but it's not like the hospital would take them off us.

They'd need to be in sealed boxes from an approved supplier with a recognised safety standard. Anything else would/could be foolish
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 28, 2020, 05:06:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 03:45:50 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 28, 2020, 03:40:09 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 28, 2020, 01:51:03 PM
Gloves should be left for frontline workers who dont have them, same with face masks. Concentrate on washing your hands and not touching your face. Over 50 doctors have died in Italy, they are the people who need PPE.
Itchy that's all well and good, but it's not like you can just donate the face masks and gloves to hospitals. The ones most people have wouldn't even be medically approved. We have a pile of masks and gloves in work that we use anyway that staff have been rightly using more off  due to covid 19, but it's not like the hospital would take them off us.

They'd need to be in sealed boxes from an approved supplier with a recognised safety standard. Anything else would/could be foolish

They are all made by same suppliers, there's nothing particularly special about any of them other than some have additives, in the case of gloves, to prevent hand irritation. Take it from me as I have sourced gloves and masks for my work place in the past.

Gobshites buying tonnes of gloves so they can go shopping when nurses are begging for them on facebook is ridiculous. You dont need gloves to go shopping and you dont need a face mask to go shopping either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 05:08:43 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 28, 2020, 05:06:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 03:45:50 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 28, 2020, 03:40:09 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 28, 2020, 01:51:03 PM
Gloves should be left for frontline workers who dont have them, same with face masks. Concentrate on washing your hands and not touching your face. Over 50 doctors have died in Italy, they are the people who need PPE.
Itchy that's all well and good, but it's not like you can just donate the face masks and gloves to hospitals. The ones most people have wouldn't even be medically approved. We have a pile of masks and gloves in work that we use anyway that staff have been rightly using more off  due to covid 19, but it's not like the hospital would take them off us.

They'd need to be in sealed boxes from an approved supplier with a recognised safety standard. Anything else would/could be foolish

They are all made by same suppliers, there's nothing particularly special about any of them other than some have additives, in the case of gloves, to prevent hand irritation. Take it from me as I have sourced gloves and masks for my work place in the past.

Gobshites buying tonnes of gloves so they can go shopping when nurses are begging for them on facebook is ridiculous. You dont need gloves to go shopping and you dont need a face mask to go shopping either.

What family is buying them wholesale?

would you use something from an unknown source if it was open?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 05:17:55 PM
What are the numbers in each of the Provinces? I take it Leinster has the most case's based on population followed by Ulster I'd assume?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 28, 2020, 05:42:40 PM
Figures from earlier in the week looks like 985 Leinster; 290 Munster; Connacht 77; Cavan/Monaghan Donegal 22.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 05:56:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 28, 2020, 05:42:40 PM
Figures from earlier in the week looks like 985 Leinster; 290 Munster; Connacht 77; Cavan/Monaghan Donegal 22.

So 344 in total for Ulster.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 28, 2020, 06:02:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 05:56:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 28, 2020, 05:42:40 PM
Figures from earlier in the week looks like 985 Leinster; 290 Munster; Connacht 77; Cavan/Monaghan Donegal 22.

So 344 in total for Ulster.

There are far more in Ulster, but the Stormont wasters are not testing them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 06:08:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 28, 2020, 06:02:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 05:56:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 28, 2020, 05:42:40 PM
Figures from earlier in the week looks like 985 Leinster; 290 Munster; Connacht 77; Cavan/Monaghan Donegal 22.

So 344 in total for Ulster.

There are far more in Ulster, but the Stormont wasters are not testing them.

Probably thousands but let's stick to the facts so far and deal with the ones admitted to hospital
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 28, 2020, 06:16:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 05:08:43 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 28, 2020, 05:06:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 03:45:50 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 28, 2020, 03:40:09 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 28, 2020, 01:51:03 PM
Gloves should be left for frontline workers who dont have them, same with face masks. Concentrate on washing your hands and not touching your face. Over 50 doctors have died in Italy, they are the people who need PPE.
Itchy that's all well and good, but it's not like you can just donate the face masks and gloves to hospitals. The ones most people have wouldn't even be medically approved. We have a pile of masks and gloves in work that we use anyway that staff have been rightly using more off  due to covid 19, but it's not like the hospital would take them off us.

They'd need to be in sealed boxes from an approved supplier with a recognised safety standard. Anything else would/could be foolish

They are all made by same suppliers, there's nothing particularly special about any of them other than some have additives, in the case of gloves, to prevent hand irritation. Take it from me as I have sourced gloves and masks for my work place in the past.

Gobshites buying tonnes of gloves so they can go shopping when nurses are begging for them on facebook is ridiculous. You dont need gloves to go shopping and you dont need a face mask to go shopping either.

What family is buying them wholesale?

would you use something from an unknown source if it was open?

Depends how desperate I was, if I was in a ward full of sick Covid 19 people at deaths door I just might. But you know if you need them to pick up a loaf of bread down the shops that is probably more important.

Anyway, whats even worse is that people working in hospitals have been robbing PPE and bringing home with them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 28, 2020, 06:17:21 PM
51 deaths in the island of Ireland in 1 month.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on March 28, 2020, 06:17:43 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 28, 2020, 03:45:12 PM
I see Americas are encouraged to wear face masks when out and about while this side of the world we are told the opposite.

Which is the correct advice, are we told that because healthcare workers would have a big shortage of masks?
thats a new thing I saw today most people are wearing them anyway in a supermarket or even on street , they are impossible to find right now and anything that medical personnel can use should be directed there .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on March 28, 2020, 06:18:30 PM
14 deaths today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on March 28, 2020, 07:10:01 PM
Many people on this board will know Niall Murphy, some personally, some professionally and even more through his various roles with St. Endas GAA Club in Glengormley. Niall is currently fighting for his life, in an induced coma.
Murf is a fighter, he's dogged and determined and as stubborn as they come. This might be his biggest fight to date, but if anyone can beat this, it's Niall Murphy.

https://www.facebook.com/212527532211653/posts/1844134729050917/?d=n
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 07:17:38 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on March 28, 2020, 07:10:01 PM
Many people on this board will know Niall Murphy, some personally, some professionally and even more through his various roles with St. Endas GAA Club in Glengormley. Niall is currently fighting for his life, in an induced coma.
Murf is a fighter, he's dogged and determined and as stubborn as they come. This might be his biggest fight to date, but if anyone can beat this, it's Niall Murphy.

https://www.facebook.com/212527532211653/posts/1844134729050917/?d=n

Niall is fighting the biggest fight of his life, I hope he pulls through..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 28, 2020, 07:23:31 PM
Knew Niall many moons ago. Really nice fella.

Chin up big lad, take it in your stride.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 28, 2020, 07:27:37 PM
Frig shocked when I read that. He always came across as a very articulate fella. Please god he'll pull through.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 28, 2020, 07:36:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 06:08:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 28, 2020, 06:02:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 05:56:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 28, 2020, 05:42:40 PM
Figures from earlier in the week looks like 985 Leinster; 290 Munster; Connacht 77; Cavan/Monaghan Donegal 22.

So 344 in total for Ulster.

There are far more in Ulster, but the Stormont wasters are not testing them.

Probably thousands but let's stick to the facts so far and deal with the ones admitted to hospital
Something around 460 of our cases admitted to Hospital.
Almost 25% of cases are health workers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 28, 2020, 07:40:55 PM
Jesus. These people are saints going to work every day in this :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 07:51:05 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 28, 2020, 07:40:55 PM
Jesus. These people are saints going to work every day in this :(

Takes balls to go into that tsunami, good luck to them and I hope they turn this around. Stay in
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 28, 2020, 08:02:53 PM
I have several friends who will be in the thick of it. One with his first baby due very soon :(

Fair play to them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on March 28, 2020, 08:10:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 07:51:05 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 28, 2020, 07:40:55 PM
Jesus. These people are saints going to work every day in this :(

Takes balls to go into that tsunami, good luck to them and I hope they turn this around. Stay in

Unbelievable strength to go in to work knowing what's ahead of you...

I see on Twitter that Michelle O Neill has been out to see community nurses today - I honestly cannot believe the stupidity - the message is stay home!!! How this couldn't have been done over the phone... god almighty! If she's on the road the mixed messages being sent to the public are so confusing!

Leo issues a list within 24 hours of essential businesses & the north still scrambles to pull it together.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 08:11:26 PM
Randox... doing it for free now for NHS workers


The new service, which will be free, will help to end the uncertainty of whether NHS staff need to stay at home.

Those who test negative for coronavirus will be able to return to work – enhancing the capacity of the NHS and social care to treat patients and care for those in community settings, with plans for a full roll-out for health, social care and other frontline workers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2020, 08:23:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 08:11:26 PM
Randox... doing it for free now for NHS workers


The new service, which will be free, will help to end the uncertainty of whether NHS staff need to stay at home.

Those who test negative for coronavirus will be able to return to work – enhancing the capacity of the NHS and social care to treat patients and care for those in community settings, with plans for a full roll-out for health, social care and other frontline workers.
Must have been burned by the negative publicity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 28, 2020, 08:23:35 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on March 28, 2020, 08:10:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 07:51:05 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 28, 2020, 07:40:55 PM
Jesus. These people are saints going to work every day in this :(

Takes balls to go into that tsunami, good luck to them and I hope they turn this around. Stay in

Unbelievable strength to go in to work knowing what's ahead of you...

I see on Twitter that Michelle O Neill has been out to see community nurses today - I honestly cannot believe the stupidity - the message is stay home!!! How this couldn't have been done over the phone... god almighty! If she's on the road the mixed messages being sent to the public are so confusing!

Leo issues a list within 24 hours of essential businesses & the north still scrambles to pull it together.

It's exactly what happened Boris (assuming he's is telling the truth and that is where the UK is - people don't even believe their prime minister when he says he has a potentially deadly virus)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 08:25:56 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2020, 08:23:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 08:11:26 PM
Randox... doing it for free now for NHS workers


The new service, which will be free, will help to end the uncertainty of whether NHS staff need to stay at home.

Those who test negative for coronavirus will be able to return to work – enhancing the capacity of the NHS and social care to treat patients and care for those in community settings, with plans for a full roll-out for health, social care and other frontline workers.
Must have been burned by the negative publicity.
Regardless it's still good news surely?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 28, 2020, 08:35:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 08:25:56 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2020, 08:23:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 08:11:26 PM
Randox... doing it for free now for NHS workers


The new service, which will be free, will help to end the uncertainty of whether NHS staff need to stay at home.

Those who test negative for coronavirus will be able to return to work – enhancing the capacity of the NHS and social care to treat patients and care for those in community settings, with plans for a full roll-out for health, social care and other frontline workers.
Must have been burned by the negative publicity.
Regardless it's still good news surely?

Good to see we are getting some use of the £23m they got from Invest NI a couple of years ago
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: square_ball on March 28, 2020, 08:35:54 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on March 28, 2020, 08:10:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 07:51:05 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 28, 2020, 07:40:55 PM
Jesus. These people are saints going to work every day in this :(

Takes balls to go into that tsunami, good luck to them and I hope they turn this around. Stay in

Unbelievable strength to go in to work knowing what's ahead of you...

I see on Twitter that Michelle O Neill has been out to see community nurses today - I honestly cannot believe the stupidity - the message is stay home!!! How this couldn't have been done over the phone... god almighty! If she's on the road the mixed messages being sent to the public are so confusing!

Leo issues a list within 24 hours of essential businesses & the north still scrambles to pull it together.

Absolutely. A phone call doesn't provide the same phot opportunity though. . .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 08:38:08 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 28, 2020, 08:35:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 08:25:56 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2020, 08:23:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 08:11:26 PM
Randox... doing it for free now for NHS workers


The new service, which will be free, will help to end the uncertainty of whether NHS staff need to stay at home.

Those who test negative for coronavirus will be able to return to work – enhancing the capacity of the NHS and social care to treat patients and care for those in community settings, with plans for a full roll-out for health, social care and other frontline workers.
Must have been burned by the negative publicity.
Regardless it's still good news surely?

Good to see we are getting some use of the £23m they got from Invest NI a couple of years ago

All companies can get investment from NI if they tick the right boxes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 28, 2020, 08:49:29 PM
Not so sure about that. Local companies have been known to struggle.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 08:53:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 28, 2020, 08:49:29 PM
Not so sure about that. Local companies have been known to struggle.

You need to tick the right box and grease the right palms ;)

I know plenty small business that got money

The big companies know how to work it, though they bring in plenty of local work, I've a few friends that work there, shit terms and conditions but they must pay well enough to stay there
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PMG1 on March 28, 2020, 08:59:11 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 28, 2020, 03:45:12 PM
I see Americas are encouraged to wear face masks when out and about while this side of the world we are told the opposite.

Which is the correct advice, are we told that because healthcare workers would have a big shortage of masks?

I do a lot of business with the Chinese and Hong Kong, every one of them is telling me we are crazy here not wearing masks, they cannot believe it. They have two effects, one is minimising the chance of getting airborn infection if someone sneezes / coughs etc and the second is you are less likely to touch your mouth or nose when one is on. In addition you can buy self testing kits for only US11 each, I can access them but only problem is the minimum order is 10,000
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 28, 2020, 09:07:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 08:53:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 28, 2020, 08:49:29 PM
Not so sure about that. Local companies have been known to struggle.

You need to tick the right box and grease the right palms ;)

I know plenty small business that got money

The big companies know how to work it, though they bring in plenty of local work, I've a few friends that work there, shit terms and conditions but they must pay well enough to stay there

I know plenty that didn't and know people in it too. Depends on sector I guess. Anyway off topic though cheerier than topic at hand!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on March 28, 2020, 09:10:14 PM
Tighter restrictions coming in NI tonight?
https://twitter.com/Tracey_utv/status/1244007255672053761
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on March 28, 2020, 09:21:10 PM
The new measures relating to business just typify the way the message has been so badly conveyed!

We'll shut you down but we'll not tell you if you essential / non-essential Instead we'll setup a forum to tell us if they think your essential / not essential so we can save face

If this pandemic spares me & my family so help me god I'm out of here!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 28, 2020, 09:31:58 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 28, 2020, 08:35:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 08:25:56 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2020, 08:23:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 08:11:26 PM
Randox... doing it for free now for NHS workers


The new service, which will be free, will help to end the uncertainty of whether NHS staff need to stay at home.

Those who test negative for coronavirus will be able to return to work – enhancing the capacity of the NHS and social care to treat patients and care for those in community settings, with plans for a full roll-out for health, social care and other frontline workers.
Must have been burned by the negative publicity.
Regardless it's still good news surely?

Good to see we are getting some use of the £23m they got from Invest NI a couple of years ago

Have these not got a factory in Donegal somewhere?  I remember readi g something about a very good grant and they were located on the western seaboard somewhere.  I remember thinking that the road/transport network wouldn't be cost effective there for a business but the grant must have been good.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 28, 2020, 09:33:25 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 28, 2020, 09:31:58 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 28, 2020, 08:35:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 08:25:56 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2020, 08:23:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 08:11:26 PM
Randox... doing it for free now for NHS workers


The new service, which will be free, will help to end the uncertainty of whether NHS staff need to stay at home.

Those who test negative for coronavirus will be able to return to work – enhancing the capacity of the NHS and social care to treat patients and care for those in community settings, with plans for a full roll-out for health, social care and other frontline workers.
Must have been burned by the negative publicity.
Regardless it's still good news surely?

Good to see we are getting some use of the £23m they got from Invest NI a couple of years ago

Have these not got a factory in Donegal somewhere?  I remember readi g something about a very good grant and they were located on the western seaboard somewhere.  I remember thinking that the road/transport network wouldn't be cost effective there for a business but the grant must have been good.


A base in Dungloe
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 09:37:24 PM
Main business factory is in Crumlin
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 28, 2020, 09:49:56 PM
Quote from: PMG1 on March 28, 2020, 08:59:11 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 28, 2020, 03:45:12 PM
I see Americas are encouraged to wear face masks when out and about while this side of the world we are told the opposite.

Which is the correct advice, are we told that because healthcare workers would have a big shortage of masks?

I do a lot of business with the Chinese and Hong Kong, every one of them is telling me we are crazy here not wearing masks, they cannot believe it. They have two effects, one is minimising the chance of getting airborn infection if someone sneezes / coughs etc and the second is you are less likely to touch your mouth or nose when one is on. In addition you can buy self testing kits for only US11 each, I can access them but only problem is the minimum order is 10,000

On the street the mask is of marginal use, it is of more use in a train or the like. If you wanted a mask here could you get one, or many of course since you are not supposed to wear the same one multiple times.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 28, 2020, 09:50:39 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 28, 2020, 09:33:25 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 28, 2020, 09:31:58 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 28, 2020, 08:35:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 08:25:56 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2020, 08:23:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2020, 08:11:26 PM
Randox... doing it for free now for NHS workers


The new service, which will be free, will help to end the uncertainty of whether NHS staff need to stay at home.

Those who test negative for coronavirus will be able to return to work – enhancing the capacity of the NHS and social care to treat patients and care for those in community settings, with plans for a full roll-out for health, social care and other frontline workers.
Must have been burned by the negative publicity.
Regardless it's still good news surely?

Good to see we are getting some use of the £23m they got from Invest NI a couple of years ago

Have these not got a factory in Donegal somewhere?  I remember readi g something about a very good grant and they were located on the western seaboard somewhere.  I remember thinking that the road/transport network wouldn't be cost effective there for a business but the grant must have been good.


A base in Dungloe

That's it. I wonder is that factory supplying the Dublin government?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 28, 2020, 10:37:22 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 28, 2020, 09:10:14 PM
Tighter restrictions coming in NI tonight?
https://twitter.com/Tracey_utv/status/1244007255672053761
Thought that initially myself but think it's still the same as GB but Stormont had to ratify it and it's now became law locally. Not 100% sure tho tbh.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: square_ball on March 29, 2020, 08:41:26 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 28, 2020, 10:37:22 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 28, 2020, 09:10:14 PM
Tighter restrictions coming in NI tonight?
https://twitter.com/Tracey_utv/status/1244007255672053761
Thought that initially myself but think it's still the same as GB but Stormont had to ratify it and it's now became law locally. Not 100% sure tho tbh.

Yeah I don't see any difference to what Boris announced last Monday night. I think it's just the fines for violating such restrictions that's the difference.

So were we not supposed to following these guidelines for the past week?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 29, 2020, 09:30:17 AM
I think it is more for people not following it. There are still a good few out there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 29, 2020, 09:47:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 29, 2020, 09:30:17 AM
I think it is more for people not following it. There are still a good few out there.

Still seeing vans out there with two or more people in them! Seen a car the other day five in it, they weren't from the same family, hi vis on obviously builders

Kids in the streets at night in parts of Belfast, parents must be looking to get the virus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 29, 2020, 10:01:16 AM
What would have hsppened if thses 'restrictions' were brought in earlier, say 2 weeks ago?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 29, 2020, 10:09:16 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 29, 2020, 10:01:16 AM
What would have hsppened if thses 'restrictions' were brought in earlier, say 2 weeks ago?

I don't think the laws were brought in to fine them till Friday? But it's ridiculous but not surprising that there are families out there who are not forcing their kids to stay in
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 29, 2020, 10:15:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 29, 2020, 10:09:16 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 29, 2020, 10:01:16 AM
What would have hsppened if thses 'restrictions' were brought in earlier, say 2 weeks ago?

I don't think the laws were brought in to fine them till Friday? But it's ridiculous but not surprising that there are families out there who are not forcing their kids to stay in

It was never going to be flawless though, I could be dead wrong - but I'm taking these kids as the 'lost' ones who have never bothered with school, regularly in trouble with the law and only going one way. Obviously the police measures now mean they can do something but bar full on detentions coming in you'll always have the stragglers.

By and large I've been impressed with how the population has taken this seriously. I'm a bit more rural than yourself but even our towns round Tyrone are ghost.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: square_ball on March 29, 2020, 10:23:46 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 29, 2020, 10:15:50 AM

By and large I've been impressed with how the population has taken this seriously. I'm a bit more rural than yourself but even our towns round Tyrone are ghost.

Same. Was out for the groceries yesterday and very little traffic on the road and even fewer in the supermarket. I think the message is getting through for the majority. Companies still operating who are non-essential are doing more harm to themselves in the long run by not closing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 29, 2020, 10:26:21 AM
Agreed.

Keep reading about people being rude to supermarket workers. Have yet to see it thankfully.(though suspect some people would be no doubt)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 29, 2020, 10:35:28 AM
I was down the local town yesterday evening, a fine day at 5pm. One of the biggest beaches in Ireland, I could see only 2 people on it from up on the promenade. Thats unheard off. I can only say in my neck of the woods this is now been taken very seriously by a very high % of people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 29, 2020, 11:11:58 AM
Quote from: square_ball on March 29, 2020, 10:23:46 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 29, 2020, 10:15:50 AM

By and large I've been impressed with how the population has taken this seriously. I'm a bit more rural than yourself but even our towns round Tyrone are ghost.

Same. Was out for the groceries yesterday and very little traffic on the road and even fewer in the supermarket. I think the message is getting through for the majority. Companies still operating who are non-essential are doing more harm to themselves in the long run by not closing.

True. I think the seriousness of it all is hitting home this past week.

The news last night i.e. tighter control, was brough in to stop the scenes we witnessed all over Ireland of the 'bank holiday' scenario.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PMG1 on March 29, 2020, 11:33:12 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 28, 2020, 09:49:56 PM
Quote from: PMG1 on March 28, 2020, 08:59:11 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 28, 2020, 03:45:12 PM
I see Americas are encouraged to wear face masks when out and about while this side of the world we are told the opposite.

Which is the correct advice, are we told that because healthcare workers would have a big shortage of masks?

I do a lot of business with the Chinese and Hong Kong, every one of them is telling me we are crazy here not wearing masks, they cannot believe it. They have two effects, one is minimising the chance of getting airborn infection if someone sneezes / coughs etc and the second is you are less likely to touch your mouth or nose when one is on. In addition you can buy self testing kits for only US11 each, I can access them but only problem is the minimum order is 10,000

On the street the mask is of marginal use, it is of more use in a train or the like. If you wanted a mask here could you get one, or many of course since you are not supposed to wear the same one multiple times.

That's the crux of the problem I am trying to get at, the no wearing masks and lack of benefits of the mask is what we are being told by our governments etc, this is not what the Chinese are being told and they are handling things much more effectively than we are
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 29, 2020, 12:57:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 28, 2020, 06:17:43 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 28, 2020, 03:45:12 PM
I see Americas are encouraged to wear face masks when out and about while this side of the world we are told the opposite.

Which is the correct advice, are we told that because healthcare workers would have a big shortage of masks?
thats a new thing I saw today most people are wearing them anyway in a supermarket or even on street , they are impossible to find right now and anything that medical personnel can use should be directed there .

Yeah, I haven't seen that advice, and I'm right in the US epicentre.

And as you say, even if you did want to wear one, they're impossible to get and supplies are rightfully being directed to healthcare workers where there are massive shortages for those who absolutely need them. I've a few N95 masks in the garage , but apart from possibly using one to go out to the chemist or a doctor's office, we're relying on social distancing. That said, we are doing most of our grocery shopping online at Costco and Amazon Wholefoods. Not everyone has the same option.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on March 29, 2020, 01:07:27 PM
I have considered making one out of a bottle and moulding the bottle so it has a nice fit and can be washed after each trip. I suppose it would be more effective than having nothing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 29, 2020, 02:40:38 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0329/1127114-hse-briefing-covid/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 29, 2020, 03:24:23 PM
Great advert.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DrJaneMunro/status/1244018162254745601
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 29, 2020, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: PMG1 on March 29, 2020, 11:33:12 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 28, 2020, 09:49:56 PM
Quote from: PMG1 on March 28, 2020, 08:59:11 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 28, 2020, 03:45:12 PM
I see Americas are encouraged to wear face masks when out and about while this side of the world we are told the opposite.

Which is the correct advice, are we told that because healthcare workers would have a big shortage of masks?

I do a lot of business with the Chinese and Hong Kong, every one of them is telling me we are crazy here not wearing masks, they cannot believe it. They have two effects, one is minimising the chance of getting airborn infection if someone sneezes / coughs etc and the second is you are less likely to touch your mouth or nose when one is on. In addition you can buy self testing kits for only US11 each, I can access them but only problem is the minimum order is 10,000

On the street the mask is of marginal use, it is of more use in a train or the like. If you wanted a mask here could you get one, or many of course since you are not supposed to wear the same one multiple times.

That's the crux of the problem I am trying to get at, the no wearing masks and lack of benefits of the mask is what we are being told by our governments etc, this is not what the Chinese are being told and they are handling things much more effectively than we are

China is much more densely populated for one and fact is from the WHO that this is being pulled off surfaces by touching, not so much from air. People working closely with the sick should be getting priority  if we have a billion .and then sure, give every Tom, Dick and Harry one
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 29, 2020, 03:31:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 29, 2020, 10:35:28 AM
I was down the local town yesterday evening, a fine day at 5pm. One of the biggest beaches in Ireland, I could see only 2 people on it from up on the promenade. Thats unheard off. I can only say in my neck of the woods this is now been taken very seriously by a very high % of people.

Moorway traffic today is 8-11% of that on a Sunday 3 weeks ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 29, 2020, 07:04:01 PM
200 new cases and another 10 deaths in the 26 today.
Over 500 health workers now tested positive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on March 29, 2020, 08:09:09 PM
So Boris is spending approximately £6M sending out letters to every house in the UK whilst staff on the frontline don't have appropriate PPE. A completely incompetent fool.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 29, 2020, 08:14:19 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0320/1124339-rte-to-launch-school-on-tv-teaching-initiative/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 29, 2020, 08:15:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 29, 2020, 07:04:01 PM
200 new cases and another 10 deaths in the 26 today.
Over 500 health workers now tested positive.

And 6 in the occupied counties. Sadly, both these numbers are a significant death rate for the number of cases a week or 10 days ago and that is when the health system is still with capacity. It moves Ireland up the league table of fatalities, things seemed better a week ago.
Hopefully, the health workers will do OK and that they are then immune. Apparently, people that got SARS have still antibodies 15 years later, which is encouraging.

Quote from: GJL on March 29, 2020, 08:09:09 PM
So Boris is spending approximately £6M sending out letters to every house in the UK whilst staff on the frontline don't have appropriate PPE. A completely incompetent fool.

The two things are not connected, as the PPE is not in short supply because of purely financial reasons. The proper conduct of people will help the NHS and if the letter helps that then the money will be well spent.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 29, 2020, 08:16:46 PM
Quote from: GJL on March 29, 2020, 08:09:09 PM
So Boris is spending approximately £6M sending out letters to every house in the UK whilst staff on the frontline don't have appropriate PPE. A completely incompetent fool.

He's no PPE to give out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on March 29, 2020, 08:51:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 29, 2020, 08:16:46 PM
Quote from: GJL on March 29, 2020, 08:09:09 PM
So Boris is spending approximately £6M sending out letters to every house in the UK whilst staff on the frontline don't have appropriate PPE. A completely incompetent fool.

He's no PPE to give out

The letter will just have the same information that is available on any and every media outlet in existence. I'm sure there would be a better way to spend £6m than a PR stunt by Boris.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 29, 2020, 09:05:34 PM
Quote from: GJL on March 29, 2020, 08:51:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 29, 2020, 08:16:46 PM
Quote from: GJL on March 29, 2020, 08:09:09 PM
So Boris is spending approximately £6M sending out letters to every house in the UK whilst staff on the frontline don't have appropriate PPE. A completely incompetent fool.

He's no PPE to give out

The letter will just have the same information that is available on any and every media outlet in existence. I'm sure there would be a better way to spend £6m than a PR stunt by Boris.

I work with a serious amount of over 70's the vast majority don't have internet nor smart phones or anything that would resemble a computer. They depend on their kids and tv radio, if Boris is going to send them a personal letter they'll read it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 29, 2020, 09:10:12 PM
Quote from: GJL on March 29, 2020, 08:51:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 29, 2020, 08:16:46 PM
Quote from: GJL on March 29, 2020, 08:09:09 PM
So Boris is spending approximately £6M sending out letters to every house in the UK whilst staff on the frontline don't have appropriate PPE. A completely incompetent fool.

He's no PPE to give out

The letter will just have the same information that is available on any and every media outlet in existence. I'm sure there would be a better way to spend £6m than a PR stunt by Boris.

There are still people who haven't got the message, £6m is 10p per person, if it reinforces the message then it will do some good.
Plenty of things to get at Boris for, but this isn't the worst.  Anything that causes me to agree will Milltown is surely remarkable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 29, 2020, 10:35:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 29, 2020, 07:04:01 PM
200 new cases and another 10 deaths in the 26 today.
Over 500 health workers now tested positive.

And almost 90 people in critical care which means a lot more to come.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 29, 2020, 10:47:11 PM
Trump sounding very queasy here!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 29, 2020, 10:50:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 29, 2020, 09:05:34 PM
Quote from: GJL on March 29, 2020, 08:51:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 29, 2020, 08:16:46 PM
Quote from: GJL on March 29, 2020, 08:09:09 PM
So Boris is spending approximately £6M sending out letters to every house in the UK whilst staff on the frontline don't have appropriate PPE. A completely incompetent fool.

He's no PPE to give out

The letter will just have the same information that is available on any and every media outlet in existence. I'm sure there would be a better way to spend £6m than a PR stunt by Boris.

I work with a serious amount of over 70's the vast majority don't have internet nor smart phones or anything that would resemble a computer. They depend on their kids and tv radio, if Boris is going to send them a personal letter they'll read it

Good point, Twitter/Facebook isn't the real world as some people seem to forget
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 29, 2020, 11:59:10 PM
Correct, the social media echo chamber is continually shown up for what it is, the UK General Election should have been a watershed moment but wasn't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 30, 2020, 07:45:10 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 29, 2020, 10:50:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 29, 2020, 09:05:34 PM
Quote from: GJL on March 29, 2020, 08:51:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 29, 2020, 08:16:46 PM
Quote from: GJL on March 29, 2020, 08:09:09 PM
So Boris is spending approximately £6M sending out letters to every house in the UK whilst staff on the frontline don't have appropriate PPE. A completely incompetent fool.

He's no PPE to give out

The letter will just have the same information that is available on any and every media outlet in existence. I'm sure there would be a better way to spend £6m than a PR stunt by Boris.

I work with a serious amount of over 70's the vast majority don't have internet nor smart phones or anything that would resemble a computer. They depend on their kids and tv radio, if Boris is going to send them a personal letter they'll read it

Good point, Twitter/Facebook isn't the real world as some people seem to forget

So true
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: naka on March 30, 2020, 09:47:14 AM
Quote from: GJL on March 29, 2020, 08:09:09 PM
So Boris is spending approximately £6M sending out letters to every house in the UK whilst staff on the frontline don't have appropriate PPE. A completely incompetent fool.
The letter will be read by the people who are the most at risk ( the over 70s).
No everyone uses the internet.
Sometimes the guy makes the odd correct decision
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 30, 2020, 10:19:43 AM
Ive ones on my fb feed speculating that the letters could be contaminated ie Boris has been licking the old envelopes himself

Another sayin could they not just have been emailed. I dont remember giving Boris my email tbh

I get daily reminders of the level of stupidity out there yet i still go back for more...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Boycey on March 30, 2020, 10:32:30 AM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on March 30, 2020, 10:19:43 AM
Ive ones on my fb feed speculating that the letters could be contaminated ie Boris has been licking the old envelopes himself

Another sayin could they not just have been emailed. I dont remember giving Boris my email tbh

I get daily reminders of the level of stupidity out there yet i still go back for more...

Always remember that Facebook and the like are a magnet for stupidity... Sometimes I get tempted to bite but mostly I just chuckle. It is slightly worrying that some will take what they read as gospel though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 30, 2020, 10:54:07 AM
I tried to create a rule that as soon as ive seen something stupid that makes you shake yer head i should log off but id be off it inside the first minute most days..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on March 30, 2020, 11:19:59 AM
Quote from: naka on March 30, 2020, 09:47:14 AM
Quote from: GJL on March 29, 2020, 08:09:09 PM
So Boris is spending approximately £6M sending out letters to every house in the UK whilst staff on the frontline don't have appropriate PPE. A completely incompetent fool.
The letter will be read by the people who are the most at risk ( the over 70s).
No everyone uses the internet.
Sometimes the guy makes the odd correct decision

Do you know many over 70s that don't watch the news or don't read a newspaper?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: knockitdown on March 30, 2020, 11:33:24 AM
Sounds like Michelle and Arlene are going to revert to type.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 30, 2020, 11:34:26 AM
Quote from: GJL on March 30, 2020, 11:19:59 AM
Quote from: naka on March 30, 2020, 09:47:14 AM
Quote from: GJL on March 29, 2020, 08:09:09 PM
So Boris is spending approximately £6M sending out letters to every house in the UK whilst staff on the frontline don't have appropriate PPE. A completely incompetent fool.
The letter will be read by the people who are the most at risk ( the over 70s).
No everyone uses the internet.
Sometimes the guy makes the odd correct decision

Do you know many over 70s that don't watch the news or don't read a newspaper?
#

If they went to the shop to get the newspaper then they haven't been paying attention.

I reiterate my point that while many people don't need this, it is worth it if it brings on board some of the others.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on March 30, 2020, 11:50:30 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 30, 2020, 11:34:26 AM
Quote from: GJL on March 30, 2020, 11:19:59 AM
Quote from: naka on March 30, 2020, 09:47:14 AM
Quote from: GJL on March 29, 2020, 08:09:09 PM
So Boris is spending approximately £6M sending out letters to every house in the UK whilst staff on the frontline don't have appropriate PPE. A completely incompetent fool.
The letter will be read by the people who are the most at risk ( the over 70s).
No everyone uses the internet.
Sometimes the guy makes the odd correct decision

Do you know many over 70s that don't watch the news or don't read a newspaper?
#

If they went to the shop to get the newspaper then they haven't been paying attention.

I reiterate my point that while many people don't need this, it is worth it if it brings on board some of the others.

I would be siding with GJL. I would say there are very few elderly that aren't glued to every news bulletin and update that comes on the radio or television. Boris and Cummings are two of the same, c*nts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 30, 2020, 12:29:31 PM
Brits saying it could be 6 months before they return to normality.
Meanwhile in the U S restrictions extended to 30th April. Some going for a "Democrat plot". 3.8 million New Yorkers using food banks !
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: north_antrim_hound on March 30, 2020, 01:33:47 PM
 why are the Brits saying its 6 months, prince Charles had it went into isolation 7 days and now hes out its a miracle
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 30, 2020, 01:48:07 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 30, 2020, 01:33:47 PM
why are the Brits saying its 6 months, prince Charles had it went into isolation 7 days and now hes out its a miracle
If everyone caught it today it would be all over in 2 weeks! The bodies would be piled up but the survivors would be immune to this particular strain.

If transmission is limited (flatten the curve) to a level that is manageable it might take a bit longer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 30, 2020, 01:50:48 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 30, 2020, 01:48:07 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 30, 2020, 01:33:47 PM
why are the Brits saying its 6 months, prince Charles had it went into isolation 7 days and now hes out its a miracle
If everyone caught it today it would be all over in 2 weeks! The bodies would be piled up but the survivors would be immune to this particular strain.

If transmission is limited (flatten the curve) to a level that is manageable it might take a bit longer.

Where is your evidence for what is in bold? I have not read of any research that can claim that and its a pretty dangerous assumption to make.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 30, 2020, 01:55:16 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 30, 2020, 01:33:47 PM
why are the Brits saying its 6 months, prince Charles had it went into isolation 7 days and now hes out its a miracle
One of their top medics was saying that.
They lost a few weeks with the herd immunity boloxology.
No doubt all the slowdown measures will have to be ceased gradually as you can hardly go from saying "no new cases today" to "full steam ahead everything opens tomorrow "
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 30, 2020, 02:02:19 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 30, 2020, 01:50:48 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 30, 2020, 01:48:07 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 30, 2020, 01:33:47 PM
why are the Brits saying its 6 months, prince Charles had it went into isolation 7 days and now hes out its a miracle
If everyone caught it today it would be all over in 2 weeks! The bodies would be piled up but the survivors would be immune to this particular strain.

If transmission is limited (flatten the curve) to a level that is manageable it might take a bit longer.

Where is your evidence for what is in bold? I have not read of any research that can claim that and its a pretty dangerous assumption to make.

If anyone is depending on GAA board for medical advise they deserve all they get.


However, The Germans seem to think that is the case.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-in-germany-immunity-passports-for-people-free-from-infection-bv87sz7zc

Other studies in Australia are showing the immune system becomes more resistant.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-germany-covid-19-immunity-certificates-testing-social-distancing-lockdown-2020-3?r=US&IR=T

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/70945888-6938-11ea-800d-da70cff6e4d3


Do you want me to change would to could so it is less dangerous?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 30, 2020, 04:05:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 30, 2020, 01:50:48 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 30, 2020, 01:48:07 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 30, 2020, 01:33:47 PM
why are the Brits saying its 6 months, prince Charles had it went into isolation 7 days and now hes out its a miracle
If everyone caught it today it would be all over in 2 weeks! The bodies would be piled up but the survivors would be immune to this particular strain.

If transmission is limited (flatten the curve) to a level that is manageable it might take a bit longer.

Where is your evidence for what is in bold? I have not read of any research that can claim that and its a pretty dangerous assumption to make.

Typically, once you develop the antibodies to any particular instance of a virus, your immune system holds that template and can recreate it quicker when you need - at least for several years. Example being the MMR vaccines.

Of course, the coronavirus we have today may mutate, so in 12 months time its an open question whether those antibodies are of any use as it could be essentially a new virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2020, 04:11:31 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 30, 2020, 04:05:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 30, 2020, 01:50:48 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 30, 2020, 01:48:07 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 30, 2020, 01:33:47 PM
why are the Brits saying its 6 months, prince Charles had it went into isolation 7 days and now hes out its a miracle
If everyone caught it today it would be all over in 2 weeks! The bodies would be piled up but the survivors would be immune to this particular strain.

If transmission is limited (flatten the curve) to a level that is manageable it might take a bit longer.

Where is your evidence for what is in bold? I have not read of any research that can claim that and its a pretty dangerous assumption to make.

Typically, once you develop the antibodies to any particular instance of a virus, your immune system holds that template and can recreate it quicker when you need - at least for several years. Example being the MMR vaccines.

Of course, the coronavirus we have today may mutate, so in 12 months time its an open question whether those antibodies are of any use as it could be essentially a new virus.

Does the flu mutate? And when people get the flu jab is it generally a different type to the year previous?

I know this isn't the flu!  I thinking then that when it comes, if it ever does, can they get a vaccine that can be readily adopted for the new mutation, if in fact it actually mutates in the first place?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 30, 2020, 04:18:34 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 30, 2020, 04:05:48 PM
Typically, once you develop the antibodies to any particular instance of a virus, your immune system holds that template and can recreate it quicker when you need - at least for several years. Example being the MMR vaccines.

Of course, the coronavirus we have today may mutate, so in 12 months time its an open question whether those antibodies are of any use as it could be essentially a new virus.

It doesn't seem to mutate much, in this respect they believe it less dangerous the flu.
As for antibodies, people who recovered from SARS still have antibodies 15 years later, so those who recover should be immune. But some further research is needed.

123 new cases  in the wee 6 today. Have they changed their testing regime to be more like the 26 counties? Or is this just more cases?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 30, 2020, 04:27:49 PM
I think testing has become more aggressive yeah.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on March 30, 2020, 04:38:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2020, 04:11:31 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 30, 2020, 04:05:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 30, 2020, 01:50:48 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 30, 2020, 01:48:07 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 30, 2020, 01:33:47 PM
why are the Brits saying its 6 months, prince Charles had it went into isolation 7 days and now hes out its a miracle
If everyone caught it today it would be all over in 2 weeks! The bodies would be piled up but the survivors would be immune to this particular strain.

If transmission is limited (flatten the curve) to a level that is manageable it might take a bit longer.

Where is your evidence for what is in bold? I have not read of any research that can claim that and its a pretty dangerous assumption to make.

Typically, once you develop the antibodies to any particular instance of a virus, your immune system holds that template and can recreate it quicker when you need - at least for several years. Example being the MMR vaccines.

Of course, the coronavirus we have today may mutate, so in 12 months time its an open question whether those antibodies are of any use as it could be essentially a new virus.

Does the flu mutate? And when people get the flu jab is it generally a different type to the year previous?

I know this isn't the flu!  I thinking then that when it comes, if it ever does, can they get a vaccine that can be readily adopted for the new mutation, if in fact it actually mutates in the first place?

I think the Flu jab can be differ each year as they try and predict which strain will be most prevalent.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 30, 2020, 04:43:08 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on March 30, 2020, 04:38:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2020, 04:11:31 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 30, 2020, 04:05:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 30, 2020, 01:50:48 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 30, 2020, 01:48:07 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 30, 2020, 01:33:47 PM
why are the Brits saying its 6 months, prince Charles had it went into isolation 7 days and now hes out its a miracle
If everyone caught it today it would be all over in 2 weeks! The bodies would be piled up but the survivors would be immune to this particular strain.

If transmission is limited (flatten the curve) to a level that is manageable it might take a bit longer.

Where is your evidence for what is in bold? I have not read of any research that can claim that and its a pretty dangerous assumption to make.

Typically, once you develop the antibodies to any particular instance of a virus, your immune system holds that template and can recreate it quicker when you need - at least for several years. Example being the MMR vaccines.

Of course, the coronavirus we have today may mutate, so in 12 months time its an open question whether those antibodies are of any use as it could be essentially a new virus.

Does the flu mutate? And when people get the flu jab is it generally a different type to the year previous?

I know this isn't the flu!  I thinking then that when it comes, if it ever does, can they get a vaccine that can be readily adopted for the new mutation, if in fact it actually mutates in the first place?

I think the Flu jab can be differ each year as they try and predict which strain will be most prevalent.
Yip,
    my Dad got his annual flu jab in November but ended up in hospital with Flu in January as that flu strain wasn't covered in the flu jabs given
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bannside on March 30, 2020, 04:44:57 PM
I have a business contact in the UK who has just purchased 250,000 test kits for self diagnosis. Pin p***k results in ten minutes. Sent me all the info as hes putting it out through his direct sale team. All properly certified by most stringent European standards.

Hes a businessman who isn't making money by his core business but has stepped in to assist supply chain (because he can) and make a small ( not extortionate by any means) that will help sustain his business in the short term.

Not sure whether or not to get involved in this because there are a few people profiteering...albeit not massively....but then again so the question is....is there any harm in it?

Just using here as a testing board for opinions on this thing. As caprice guide....I can buy these kits around £12 and have been advised to RRP at circa £15.

Should I get involved, ethically is it ok to make a few pounds by doing this? At the minute I'm seeing two sides of a same coin?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 30, 2020, 04:50:34 PM
Ethically, is it ok to profit from a pandemic? As a new business? Are you for real?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on March 30, 2020, 04:51:48 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 30, 2020, 04:43:08 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on March 30, 2020, 04:38:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2020, 04:11:31 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 30, 2020, 04:05:48 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 30, 2020, 01:50:48 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 30, 2020, 01:48:07 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 30, 2020, 01:33:47 PM
why are the Brits saying its 6 months, prince Charles had it went into isolation 7 days and now hes out its a miracle
If everyone caught it today it would be all over in 2 weeks! The bodies would be piled up but the survivors would be immune to this particular strain.

If transmission is limited (flatten the curve) to a level that is manageable it might take a bit longer.

Where is your evidence for what is in bold? I have not read of any research that can claim that and its a pretty dangerous assumption to make.

Typically, once you develop the antibodies to any particular instance of a virus, your immune system holds that template and can recreate it quicker when you need - at least for several years. Example being the MMR vaccines.

Of course, the coronavirus we have today may mutate, so in 12 months time its an open question whether those antibodies are of any use as it could be essentially a new virus.

Does the flu mutate? And when people get the flu jab is it generally a different type to the year previous?

I know this isn't the flu!  I thinking then that when it comes, if it ever does, can they get a vaccine that can be readily adopted for the new mutation, if in fact it actually mutates in the first place?

I think the Flu jab can be differ each year as they try and predict which strain will be most prevalent.
Yip,
    my Dad got his annual flu jab in November but ended up in hospital with Flu in January as that flu strain wasn't covered in the flu jabs given

My other half got the flu this year (about 3-4 weeks ago) for the first time in years although always get the jab (I know its not a gaurantee).
So it will be interesting to see when these anti-body kits come up for public sale, whether or not this has been lurking behind the scenes for longer then they think.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 30, 2020, 05:01:12 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 30, 2020, 04:50:34 PM
Ethically, is it ok to profit from a pandemic? As a new business? Are you for real?

Whichever company comes up with the vaccination for this and someone will, they aren't going to give it to the world for free you can be sure. They'll be heralded as genius whilst they milk a Government, whom in turn will make us pay for it via taxation.

They reckon CureVac might not be too far away shortly, that's the fella everyone hates in German Football for reasons which I'm not entirely sure why.

On another note I am relatively optimistic they'll get the vaccination sorted, the whole of the worlds genius is now on it - the human body has proven it has the ability to beat the riddle. Now for the human mind to figure out. I think human testing has already started in Europe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 30, 2020, 05:08:04 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 30, 2020, 04:50:34 PM
Ethically, is it ok to profit from a pandemic? As a new business? Are you for real?

Do you understand the concept of the pharmaceutical business??!!

If there's no profit in it why would anybody do it? They shouldn't be ripping people off of course but they need to make money as well!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armamike on March 30, 2020, 05:22:38 PM
Anyone on here with symptoms yet?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 30, 2020, 05:23:23 PM
Is it reasonable for an employer to expect someone to go into a house where there was a coronavirus death in the last week, and another person showing symptoms? Without saying much, part of their job involves going from house to house and being in contact with the people inside. No proper ppe has been offered. On top of this, the employee is agency staff so won't get paid if they have to take a week off due to self isolation. Anyone know about the legality of this sort of stuff?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 30, 2020, 05:27:46 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 30, 2020, 05:08:04 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 30, 2020, 04:50:34 PM
Ethically, is it ok to profit from a pandemic? As a new business? Are you for real?

Do you understand the concept of the pharmaceutical business??!!

If there's no profit in it why would anybody do it? They shouldn't be ripping people off of course but they need to make money as well!!

Find the quote from me where I stated that pharmaceutical companies are renowned for their ethics. Clown.

I find it hilarious that bannside is complaining out of one side of his mouth about accusations being laid against a local company for their conduct through all of this while the other side is salivating over the prospect of a quick buck.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 30, 2020, 05:31:11 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 30, 2020, 05:23:23 PM
Is it reasonable for an employer to expect someone to go into a house where there was a coronavirus death in the last week, and another person showing symptoms? Without saying much, part of their job involves going from house to house and being in contact with the people inside. No proper ppe has been offered. On top of this, the employee is agency staff so won't get paid if they have to take a week off due to self isolation. Anyone know about the legality of this sort of stuff?

If it doesn't sound legal, it rarely is.

It's completely unreasonable, for a multitude of reasons.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: north_antrim_hound on March 30, 2020, 05:35:08 PM
Quote from: Armamike on March 30, 2020, 05:22:38 PM
Anyone on here with symptoms yet?

I have been diagnosed with this
`` uxoricide `` brought on by lock-down apparently.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bannside on March 30, 2020, 05:35:22 PM
Ok Gallsman hardly salivating in fact I could give this a miss quite easily.... but I think the jury is out......a couple of people have PM'd me already to say they would take a dozen, one wants eight, just for either family members or staff for peace of mind. If I can help offer them that, should I not do this.

I'm a bit out of my depth here, good chance I'll not get involved.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 30, 2020, 05:37:37 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 30, 2020, 05:23:23 PM
Is it reasonable for an employer to expect someone to go into a house where there was a coronavirus death in the last week, and another person showing symptoms? Without saying much, part of their job involves going from house to house and being in contact with the people inside. No proper ppe has been offered. On top of this, the employee is agency staff so won't get paid if they have to take a week off due to self isolation. Anyone know about the legality of this sort of stuff?

Er.. no!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: north_antrim_hound on March 30, 2020, 05:38:29 PM
Quote from: bannside on March 30, 2020, 04:44:57 PM
I have a business contact in the UK who has just purchased 250,000 test kits for self diagnosis. Pin p***k results in ten minutes. Sent me all the info as hes putting it out through his direct sale team. All properly certified by most stringent European standards.

Hes a businessman who isn't making money by his core business but has stepped in to assist supply chain (because he can) and make a small ( not extortionate by any means) that will help sustain his business in the short term.

Not sure whether or not to get involved in this because there are a few people profiteering...albeit not massively....but then again so the question is....is there any harm in it?

Just using here as a testing board for opinions on this thing. As caprice guide....I can buy these kits around £12 and have been advised to RRP at circa £15.

Should I get involved, ethically is it ok to make a few pounds by doing this? At the minute I'm seeing two sides of a same coin?

seems fine to me, isn't exactly Randox margins
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armamike on March 30, 2020, 05:42:32 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 30, 2020, 05:35:08 PM
Quote from: Armamike on March 30, 2020, 05:22:38 PM
Anyone on here with symptoms yet?

I have been diagnosed with this
`` uxoricide `` brought on by lock-down apparently.

Common enough.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: north_antrim_hound on March 30, 2020, 05:45:08 PM
Quote from: Armamike on March 30, 2020, 05:42:32 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 30, 2020, 05:35:08 PM
Quote from: Armamike on March 30, 2020, 05:22:38 PM
Anyone on here with symptoms yet?

I have been diagnosed with this
`` uxoricide `` brought on by lock-down apparently.

Common enough.

in fairness shes grand, shes even helping in the garden
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 30, 2020, 05:45:44 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 30, 2020, 05:01:12 PM

Whichever company comes up with the vaccination for this and someone will, they aren't going to give it to the world for free you can be sure. They'll be heralded as genius whilst they milk a Government, whom in turn will make us pay for it via taxation.

We'll have to pay a lot less taxation in this case than if the pandemic continues.

QuoteOn another note I am relatively optimistic they'll get the vaccination sorted, the whole of the worlds genius is now on it - the human body has proven it has the ability to beat the riddle. Now for the human mind to figure out. I think human testing has already started in Europe.

The direction of genius towards a limited set of objectives can bring notable results, look at how technologies were developed during the second world war.

Reported elsewhere that the US government was going to manufacture a vaccine in parallel with the testing of it. This makes sense, even if the vaccine was not perfect it might be good for a lot of people, even if the testing showed that you could not give it to people with certain conditions.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 30, 2020, 05:51:18 PM
Quote from: bannside on March 30, 2020, 05:35:22 PM
Ok Gallsman hardly salivating in fact I could give this a miss quite easily.... but I think the jury is out......a couple of people have PM'd me already to say they would take a dozen, one wants eight, just for either family members or staff for peace of mind. If I can help offer them that, should I not do this.

I'm a bit out of my depth here, good chance I'll not get involved.

By all means your should. Whether you should profit from it is a different question entirely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bannside on March 30, 2020, 06:04:01 PM
Tell me this then.....

If mainstream pharmacies have access to this exact same product in a week or ten days....which is not unlikely....and they buy it at £6 and sell it at £12 and there is a huge demand for it....are you going to say they are robbing cnuts or are they providing a service at a fair price and keeping thousands of people employed?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 30, 2020, 06:17:35 PM
My tuppence - work away Bannside. At £3 a pop profit yous arent exactly puttin the arm in
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 30, 2020, 06:23:12 PM
Quote from: bannside on March 30, 2020, 06:04:01 PM
Tell me this then.....

If mainstream pharmacies have access to this exact same product in a week or ten days....which is not unlikely....and they buy it at £6 and sell it at £12 and there is a huge demand for it....are you going to say they are robbing cnuts or are they providing a service at a fair price and keeping thousands of people employed?

Again, where have I said anything about this?

You asked a question. If you don't like the answer (evidently one you anticipated) then don't ask it in the first place. Go ahead, make your profit, but don't be kidding yourself it's at all ethical.

Given we're talking about ethics here, I can only assume you'll be documenting all this, giving everyone receipts, charging your zero rated VAT and paying your tax on the profits. Good lad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 30, 2020, 06:24:23 PM
Take it to Twitter lads.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mayoman dan on March 30, 2020, 06:33:22 PM
How long do ye reckon all this social distancing will last?? Im still working away in 1 of the large supermarkets so im lucky enough i still have a wage coming in although myself and others have had to fight hard for some measures to protect us while at work.Some are saying 6 weeks and others are saying 6 months.???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 30, 2020, 06:37:27 PM
Quote from: mayoman dan on March 30, 2020, 06:33:22 PM
How long do ye reckon all this social distancing will last?? Im still working away in 1 of the large supermarkets so im lucky enough i still have a wage coming in although myself and others have had to fight hard for some measures to protect us while at work.Some are saying 6 weeks and others are saying 6 months.???

The lockdown won't last 6 months, but some of the social distancing might. So most shops will be open etc but packing people in, queues etc will not be allowed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 30, 2020, 06:44:50 PM
There is probably a good chance that it will be lifted a bit down the line and then be reinstated when a new cycle of infections starts.

China will be a test run.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mayoman dan on March 30, 2020, 06:48:51 PM

The lockdown won't last 6 months, but some of the social distancing might. So most shops will be open etc but packing people in, queues etc will not be allowed.
[/quote]

Thats not a bad thing for me as our workplace is like a cattlemart on most days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bannside on March 30, 2020, 06:52:33 PM
Are you insinuating in any way that there will be any doubtful financial practice going on?? The company behind this is fully regulated,  as a service product VAT will be charged unless you're from ROI.


Give me your opinion on this Gallsman as you are the only single negative voice on this so far! Sorry I'm not on Twitter either.

Let's take  my boss the man who decided weeks ago to purchase these self test kits is looking back on his "enterprise" in a few months when/if things settle down.

He will hopefully have sold 250,000 kits and made netting one pound on each after tax postage employees etc. Of the self assessment kits let's say 1/10 - that's  25 thousand people get a positive diagnosis a week earlier than they normally would, and 1/100 of those who did so (that's 250) lives were saved because not only did they act early, but are well slept well got their immune systems strong, avoided absolutely everyone, etc, etc.

I'd say this particular businessman acted wisely and with decent morality and in not only keeping his company viable going forward played a big part in saving 250 people.

Do you think those 250 people and their families will think he was profiteering by making netting £1 out of each sale????

Just saying I think you're very quick assumption on the matter is on the wrong side of opinion here Gallsman.

Having said that I'm still prob not going to get involved...might pass on a lead or two that's about it.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 30, 2020, 06:53:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 30, 2020, 06:44:50 PM
There is probably a good chance that it will be lifted a bit down the line and then be reinstated when a new cycle of infections starts.

China will be a test run.

This is what I'm hearing through my job. It will be on and off for a year or so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mayoman dan on March 30, 2020, 06:57:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 30, 2020, 06:53:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 30, 2020, 06:44:50 PM
There is probably a good chance that it will be lifted a bit down the line and then be reinstated when a new cycle of infections starts.

China will be a test run.

This is what I'm hearing through my job. It will be on and off for a year or so.

When its lifted do ye think Matches will go ahead with big crowds?? Will pubs restaurants be open but with restrictions numbers wise???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 30, 2020, 07:01:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 30, 2020, 06:53:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 30, 2020, 06:44:50 PM
There is probably a good chance that it will be lifted a bit down the line and then be reinstated when a new cycle of infections starts.

China will be a test run.

This is what I'm hearing through my job. It will be on and off for a year or so.

Until the vaccine is available, basically.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 30, 2020, 07:05:21 PM
You have my opinion already. Maybe you've struggled to understand it or, as suggested, you just don't like it. It's completely unethical. The fact that other business practices from other companies or individuals are unethical, or that people are willing to pay your price does not change this.

It's particularly unethical given that this would be a completely new business for you. You've seen the chance of a quick buck materialise before your eyes because, and only because, there is a pandemic tearing across the planet and you wish to exploit it. That's all there is to it.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mayoman dan on March 30, 2020, 07:07:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 30, 2020, 07:01:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 30, 2020, 06:53:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 30, 2020, 06:44:50 PM
There is probably a good chance that it will be lifted a bit down the line and then be reinstated when a new cycle of infections starts.

China will be a test run.

This is what I'm hearing through my job. It will be on and off for a year or so.

Until the vaccine is available, basically.

Hopefully it wont be too far away...Not spending time with the family no gym no pub no football my God when we get through this we will have a new appreciation on all the great things we took for granted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 30, 2020, 07:08:09 PM
Quote from: mayoman dan on March 30, 2020, 06:57:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 30, 2020, 06:53:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 30, 2020, 06:44:50 PM
There is probably a good chance that it will be lifted a bit down the line and then be reinstated when a new cycle of infections starts.

China will be a test run.

This is what I'm hearing through my job. It will be on and off for a year or so.

When its lifted do ye think Matches will go ahead with big crowds?? Will pubs restaurants be open but with restrictions numbers wise???

Probably. But it's all up in the air at the minute.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 30, 2020, 07:25:39 PM
Quote from: gallsman on March 30, 2020, 07:05:21 PM
You have my opinion already. Maybe you've struggled to understand it or, as suggested, you just don't like it. It's completely unethical. The fact that other business practices from other companies or individuals are unethical, or that people are willing to pay your price does not change this.

It's particularly unethical given that this would be a completely new business for you. You've seen the chance of a quick buck materialise before your eyes because, and only because, there is a pandemic tearing across the planet and you wish to exploit it. That's all there is to it.

Same with those other f*ckers selling umbrellas when it's raining... the cheek of them the bastards!!!

Jesus christ gallsman you're a few km to the left of Bernie and Jeremy!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 30, 2020, 07:30:59 PM
Have ye any proof these things are accurate at all?
I'd have thought Governments would be buying them up left right and centre?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 30, 2020, 07:42:27 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 30, 2020, 05:23:23 PM
Is it reasonable for an employer to expect someone to go into a house where there was a coronavirus death in the last week, and another person showing symptoms? Without saying much, part of their job involves going from house to house and being in contact with the people inside. No proper ppe has been offered. On top of this, the employee is agency staff so won't get paid if they have to take a week off due to self isolation. Anyone know about the legality of this sort of stuff?
The government have made it clear that if this is non-essential then you don't do it. If it is deemed essential, social distancing rules apply even if there wasn't a death! Tell them to f**k off.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bannside on March 30, 2020, 07:51:03 PM
It meets the approval of the European Commissioners Certification TUV SUD which is apparently the most stringent specification. Also a CE certificate as well. The paperwork is legit...say what I like about the boss but he wouldn't be buying anything unless it's got all the back up, even more do because it's not his core business.

He acted early but my fear for him and this is genuine is that the govt is on his tail with a couple of million test kits which may be for front line NHS and I'd hazard a guess (I'm as blind on this as anyone else by the way) that the big chemist groups will be getting access to the same or similar in the near future too.

In which case the bosses enterprise could completely backfire. That's the chance he took. Some say fair play if he makes a couple of hundred grand (as long as he wasnt too greedy seems to be the general opinion) and likewise no one will have any sympathy if he loses the lot..

Hes got a bigger set than me, good luck to him.if it actually does save a few lives, how can anyone put a price on that.

I've decided not to get too involved in this, I do see Gallsmans point to some extent even though most here disagree...that's what this discussion forum is about after all. Doesn't make someone right and someone wrong!

If anyone contacts me I'm happy to pass on a few details for free. If that saves one life it will be more than worth doing...it will be a privilege. PM if interested and I'll WhatsApp the info I have...if you want to make direct contact with the team in UK after that, work away!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: redzone on March 30, 2020, 09:11:02 PM
If u Google home test kit at the pill box Irvinestown Co fermanagh their was an article dated 18 march were they said they hoped to have the test kit for sale by the end of the month at 40-50 pounds. Yours is a bargain
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on March 30, 2020, 09:56:25 PM
Quote from: bannside on March 30, 2020, 06:52:33 PM
Are you insinuating in any way that there will be any doubtful financial practice going on?? The company behind this is fully regulated,  as a service product VAT will be charged unless you're from ROI.


Give me your opinion on this Gallsman as you are the only single negative voice on this so far! Sorry I'm not on Twitter either.

Let's take  my boss the man who decided weeks ago to purchase these self test kits is looking back on his "enterprise" in a few months when/if things settle down.

He will hopefully have sold 250,000 kits and made netting one pound on each after tax postage employees etc. Of the self assessment kits let's say 1/10 - that's  25 thousand people get a positive diagnosis a week earlier than they normally would, and 1/100 of those who did so (that's 250) lives were saved because not only did they act early, but are well slept well got their immune systems strong, avoided absolutely everyone, etc, etc.

I'd say this particular businessman acted wisely and with decent morality and in not only keeping his company viable going forward played a big part in saving 250 people.

Do you think those 250 people and their families will think he was profiteering by making netting £1 out of each sale????

Just saying I think you're very quick assumption on the matter is on the wrong side of opinion here Gallsman.

Having said that I'm still prob not going to get involved...might pass on a lead or two that's about it.

Surely these are antibody tests rather than diagnostic tests? They'll tell you if you've had the virus and now have the antibodies to show for it, but they are of limited benefit if you've only just contracted it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 30, 2020, 10:29:53 PM
Hopefully Tony Fearon will not be heading to Citywest in the near future
https://www.thejournal.ie/covid-19-self-isolation-and-step-down-care-centre-5061231-Mar2020/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2020, 11:14:57 PM
The view of Stormount. Is Marc on coke? Very hyper lol

The guy on now talking serious sense!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on March 30, 2020, 11:27:36 PM
Hot saunas (bath)followed by cold shower seems to be good way to fire up immune system , can't hurt
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 30, 2020, 11:34:20 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 30, 2020, 02:02:19 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 30, 2020, 01:50:48 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 30, 2020, 01:48:07 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 30, 2020, 01:33:47 PM
why are the Brits saying its 6 months, prince Charles had it went into isolation 7 days and now hes out its a miracle
If everyone caught it today it would be all over in 2 weeks! The bodies would be piled up but the survivors would be immune to this particular strain.

If transmission is limited (flatten the curve) to a level that is manageable it might take a bit longer.

Where is your evidence for what is in bold? I have not read of any research that can claim that and its a pretty dangerous assumption to make.

If anyone is depending on GAA board for medical advise they deserve all they get.


However, The Germans seem to think that is the case.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-in-germany-immunity-passports-for-people-free-from-infection-bv87sz7zc

Other studies in Australia are showing the immune system becomes more resistant.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-germany-covid-19-immunity-certificates-testing-social-distancing-lockdown-2020-3?r=US&IR=T

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/70945888-6938-11ea-800d-da70cff6e4d3


Do you want me to change would to could so it is less dangerous?

No need, it's the same stupid assumption Boris and his "better than the WHO" experts came up with before doing a spectacular U turn. I was just wondering were you going to be stupid enough to spread the same nonsense as them. But I see your using the "it's an online forum if you are stupid enough to believe any bullshit I write you deserve what you get" defence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PMG1 on March 30, 2020, 11:38:37 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 30, 2020, 05:38:29 PM
Quote from: bannside on March 30, 2020, 04:44:57 PM
I have a business contact in the UK who has just purchased 250,000 test kits for self diagnosis. Pin p***k results in ten minutes. Sent me all the info as hes putting it out through his direct sale team. All properly certified by most stringent European standards.

Hes a businessman who isn't making money by his core business but has stepped in to assist supply chain (because he can) and make a small ( not extortionate by any means) that will help sustain his business in the short term.

Not sure whether or not to get involved in this because there are a few people profiteering...albeit not massively....but then again so the question is....is there any harm in it?

Just using here as a testing board for opinions on this thing. As caprice guide....I can buy these kits around £12 and have been advised to RRP at circa £15.

Should I get involved, ethically is it ok to make a few pounds by doing this? At the minute I'm seeing two sides of a same coin?

seems fine to me, isn't exactly Randox margins
At £12 they are making £3-£3.50 a pop. Was tempted myself to buy direct from China, min order was 10,000. My problem unfortunately is that I have a vulnerable (very) person in my house and would be afraid to get involved as somewhere along the line I would be afraid of coming into contact,
only for that I would be flogging then along with N95/FFP3 masks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 31, 2020, 08:32:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2020, 11:14:57 PM
The view of Stormount. Is Marc on coke? Very hyper lol

The guy on now talking serious sense!

Was that the lad from Clones, Samuel McConkey?

No bluff or bluster from him. UK delayed and dithered too long and allowed the virus to take hold he said. No ifs or buts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 31, 2020, 09:14:51 AM
You can't argue with that.

Cheltenham probably the biggest mistake of all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on March 31, 2020, 09:20:36 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 31, 2020, 09:14:51 AM
You can't argue with that.

Cheltenham probably the biggest mistake of all.

The decision to cancel St Patricks day here in Ireland probably one of the best/most logical decsions ever made when we look back.

The Cheltenham festival going ahead was nothing short of mind boggling.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2020, 09:26:46 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2020, 08:32:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 30, 2020, 11:14:57 PM
The view of Stormount. Is Marc on coke? Very hyper lol

The guy on now talking serious sense!

Was that the lad from Clones, Samuel McConkey?

No bluff or bluster from him. UK delayed and dithered too long and allowed the virus to take hold he said. No ifs or buts.

Yes, that was him. He was very good
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 31, 2020, 09:41:37 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 30, 2020, 11:34:20 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 30, 2020, 02:02:19 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 30, 2020, 01:50:48 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 30, 2020, 01:48:07 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 30, 2020, 01:33:47 PM
why are the Brits saying its 6 months, prince Charles had it went into isolation 7 days and now hes out its a miracle
If everyone caught it today it would be all over in 2 weeks! The bodies would be piled up but the survivors would be immune to this particular strain.

If transmission is limited (flatten the curve) to a level that is manageable it might take a bit longer.

Where is your evidence for what is in bold? I have not read of any research that can claim that and its a pretty dangerous assumption to make.

If anyone is depending on GAA board for medical advise they deserve all they get.


However, The Germans seem to think that is the case.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-in-germany-immunity-passports-for-people-free-from-infection-bv87sz7zc

Other studies in Australia are showing the immune system becomes more resistant.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-germany-covid-19-immunity-certificates-testing-social-distancing-lockdown-2020-3?r=US&IR=T

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/70945888-6938-11ea-800d-da70cff6e4d3


Do you want me to change would to could so it is less dangerous?

No need, it's the same stupid assumption Boris and his "better than the WHO" experts came up with before doing a spectacular U turn. I was just wondering were you going to be stupid enough to spread the same nonsense as them. But I see your using the "it's an online forum if you are stupid enough to believe any bullshit I write you deserve what you get" defence.
Same thing alright. Don't put your back out with that reach. Hospitals are under enough pressure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 31, 2020, 09:43:23 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 30, 2020, 05:45:44 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 30, 2020, 05:01:12 PM

Whichever company comes up with the vaccination for this and someone will, they aren't going to give it to the world for free you can be sure. They'll be heralded as genius whilst they milk a Government, whom in turn will make us pay for it via taxation.

We'll have to pay a lot less taxation in this case than if the pandemic continues.

QuoteOn another note I am relatively optimistic they'll get the vaccination sorted, the whole of the worlds genius is now on it - the human body has proven it has the ability to beat the riddle. Now for the human mind to figure out. I think human testing has already started in Europe.

The direction of genius towards a limited set of objectives can bring notable results, look at how technologies were developed during the second world war.

Reported elsewhere that the US government was going to manufacture a vaccine in parallel with the testing of it. This makes sense, even if the vaccine was not perfect it might be good for a lot of people, even if the testing showed that you could not give it to people with certain conditions.

All we can do is be positive, I am certain the scientific brains of the world will sort this fairly quickly. They have a lot of the data already.

I have less hope that our governments worldwide won't get involved in a bickering match over red tape holding the whole process up over many more months than it needs. There's already been talk that Trump wants to make the vaccine (when resolved) an American victory etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 31, 2020, 09:45:28 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 31, 2020, 09:14:51 AM
You can't argue with that.

Cheltenham probably the biggest mistake of all.

Cheltenham and Atléti travelling to Anfield and bringing 4/5k fans with them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on March 31, 2020, 09:48:59 AM
Quote from: PMG1 on March 30, 2020, 11:38:37 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on March 30, 2020, 05:38:29 PM
Quote from: bannside on March 30, 2020, 04:44:57 PM
I have a business contact in the UK who has just purchased 250,000 test kits for self diagnosis. Pin p***k results in ten minutes. Sent me all the info as hes putting it out through his direct sale team. All properly certified by most stringent European standards.

Hes a businessman who isn't making money by his core business but has stepped in to assist supply chain (because he can) and make a small ( not extortionate by any means) that will help sustain his business in the short term.

Not sure whether or not to get involved in this because there are a few people profiteering...albeit not massively....but then again so the question is....is there any harm in it?

Just using here as a testing board for opinions on this thing. As caprice guide....I can buy these kits around £12 and have been advised to RRP at circa £15.

Should I get involved, ethically is it ok to make a few pounds by doing this? At the minute I'm seeing two sides of a same coin?

seems fine to me, isn't exactly Randox margins
At £12 they are making £3-£3.50 a pop. Was tempted myself to buy direct from China, min order was 10,000. My problem unfortunately is that I have a vulnerable (very) person in my house and would be afraid to get involved as somewhere along the line I would be afraid of coming into contact,
only for that I would be flogging then along with N95/FFP3 masks

Are these the tests to see if someone had the virus and recovered? Or are these the tests that test if a patient currently has the virus?
Would be interested to see where these can be bought from....if anyone can share.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 09:55:44 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 31, 2020, 09:14:51 AM


Cheltenham probably the biggest mistake of all.
Probably why Kildare has third highest number of cases in the 26??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 31, 2020, 10:16:39 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/hemantmehta/status/1244344119545208834
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 31, 2020, 10:42:34 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 31, 2020, 10:16:39 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/hemantmehta/status/1244344119545208834
That's a relief. I thought we were going to be locked down until we got to the back of the curve.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 10:49:06 AM
Quote from: bannside on March 30, 2020, 04:44:57 PM
I have a business contact in the UK who has just purchased 250,000 test kits for self diagnosis. Pin p***k results in ten minutes. Sent me all the info as hes putting it out through his direct sale team. All properly certified by most stringent European standards.

Hes a businessman who isn't making money by his core business but has stepped in to assist supply chain (because he can) and make a small ( not extortionate by any means) that will help sustain his business in the short term.

Not sure whether or not to get involved in this because there are a few people profiteering...albeit not massively....but then again so the question is....is there any harm in it?

Just using here as a testing board for opinions on this thing. As caprice guide....I can buy these kits around £12 and have been advised to RRP at circa £15.

Should I get involved, ethically is it ok to make a few pounds by doing this? At the minute I'm seeing two sides of a same coin?

Probably the altruistic thing to do would be run it at-cost, so no profit, no loss.

But of course, that means you do need a margin from your buying to selling price to pay your own expenses - and I don't see how anyone could consider that unreasonable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 10:53:05 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 30, 2020, 11:34:20 PM
No need, it's the same stupid assumption Boris and his "better than the WHO" experts came up with before doing a spectacular U turn. I was just wondering were you going to be stupid enough to spread the same nonsense as them. But I see your using the "it's an online forum if you are stupid enough to believe any bullshit I write you deserve what you get" defence.

But that'd mean a single-strain vaccine isn't going to work Itchy.

[If there are multiple disparate strains of COVID-19 running amok, then vaccine will need to contain solutions to each one.That'll put months onto the work behind it.]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 11:09:30 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 10:53:05 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 30, 2020, 11:34:20 PM
No need, it's the same stupid assumption Boris and his "better than the WHO" experts came up with before doing a spectacular U turn. I was just wondering were you going to be stupid enough to spread the same nonsense as them. But I see your using the "it's an online forum if you are stupid enough to believe any bullshit I write you deserve what you get" defence.

But that'd mean a single-strain vaccine isn't going to work Itchy.

[If there are multiple disparate strains of COVID-19 running amok, then vaccine will need to contain solutions to each one.That'll put months onto the work behind it.]

I dont know how many strains there are. My point is that the experts are learning all the time. From the papers I have read there is no conclusive evidence yet that there is immunity when you get this virus. I dont think it is helpful to say that there is immunity when its not known - even if it is on a forum. People are doing research online and are reading stuff and I am sure people like LeoMc is running around talking rubbish away from the forum and influencing some people. I'd hate to think someone recovered from Covid19 would be out running amok because the think they cant catch it again. There is no advice anywhere saying that.

Other things not understood yet, again from what I have read.

- Why is it biased to men (75%) versus women. Originally believe to be behavioral it seems that newest information is saying that it is something else.
- Suggestion that in different climates it infects at different rates.
- Is there immunity when you get it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 11:13:07 AM
On the ethics, I think if you can help charge enough to cover your costs. If it was me I wouldn't be trying to profit in a pandemic on other peoples misery.

The companies that are paying people extra to go to work - Baxter, Tesco etc and the moronic unions that agreed it. They are a disgrace and are actually incentivising people to risk going to work who should not be going. If they put their efforts into making their work places safer they would be much better off. Baxter for a medical device company should hang their head in shame to put a global program like that in place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 31, 2020, 11:16:26 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 11:09:30 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 10:53:05 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 30, 2020, 11:34:20 PM
No need, it's the same stupid assumption Boris and his "better than the WHO" experts came up with before doing a spectacular U turn. I was just wondering were you going to be stupid enough to spread the same nonsense as them. But I see your using the "it's an online forum if you are stupid enough to believe any bullshit I write you deserve what you get" defence.

But that'd mean a single-strain vaccine isn't going to work Itchy.

[If there are multiple disparate strains of COVID-19 running amok, then vaccine will need to contain solutions to each one.That'll put months onto the work behind it.]

I dont know how many strains there are. My point is that the experts are learning all the time. From the papers I have read there is no conclusive evidence yet that there is immunity when you get this virus. I dont think it is helpful to say that there is immunity when its not known - even if it is on a forum. People are doing research online and are reading stuff and I am sure people like LeoMc is running around talking rubbish away from the forum and influencing some people. I'd hate to think someone recovered from Covid19 would be out running amok because the think they cant catch it again. There is no advice anywhere saying that.

Other things not understood yet, again from what I have read.

- Why is it biased to men (75%) versus women. Originally believe to be behavioral it seems that newest information is saying that it is something else.
- Suggestion that in different climates it infects at different rates.
- Is there immunity when you get it

You can nearly be sure that is smoking.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 11:25:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 11:13:07 AM
On the ethics, I think if you can help charge enough to cover your costs. If it was me I wouldn't be trying to profit in a pandemic on other peoples misery.

The companies that are paying people extra to go to work - Baxter, Tesco etc and the moronic unions that agreed it. They are a disgrace and are actually incentivising people to risk going to work who should not be going. If they put their efforts into making their work places safer they would be much better off. Baxter for a medical device company should hang their head in shame to put a global program like that in place.

Tesco need people to go to work as they are feeding the rest of us. These people are busy and working hard and an extra payment seems appropriate. Now they could do more to make their workplaces safer, to be sure, and so could most employers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 12:06:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 11:25:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 11:13:07 AM
On the ethics, I think if you can help charge enough to cover your costs. If it was me I wouldn't be trying to profit in a pandemic on other peoples misery.

The companies that are paying people extra to go to work - Baxter, Tesco etc and the moronic unions that agreed it. They are a disgrace and are actually incentivising people to risk going to work who should not be going. If they put their efforts into making their work places safer they would be much better off. Baxter for a medical device company should hang their head in shame to put a global program like that in place.

Tesco need people to go to work as they are feeding the rest of us. These people are busy and working hard and an extra payment seems appropriate. Now they could do more to make their workplaces safer, to be sure, and so could most employers.

Agreed. I would love to hear Michelle O'Neills solution to how we keep the country(north or south) going. We are at the unfortunate point of having to accept that  many businesses are needed, and will need to remain open with some controls.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 12:11:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 12:06:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 11:25:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 11:13:07 AM
On the ethics, I think if you can help charge enough to cover your costs. If it was me I wouldn't be trying to profit in a pandemic on other peoples misery.

The companies that are paying people extra to go to work - Baxter, Tesco etc and the moronic unions that agreed it. They are a disgrace and are actually incentivising people to risk going to work who should not be going. If they put their efforts into making their work places safer they would be much better off. Baxter for a medical device company should hang their head in shame to put a global program like that in place.

Tesco need people to go to work as they are feeding the rest of us. These people are busy and working hard and an extra payment seems appropriate. Now they could do more to make their workplaces safer, to be sure, and so could most employers.

Agreed. I would love to hear Michelle O'Neills solution to how we keep the country(north or south) going. We are at the unfortunate point of having to accept that  many businesses are needed, and will need to remain open with some controls.

In fairness, I don't think that Michelle O'Neill thinks that the likes of Tesco should be closed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 31, 2020, 12:47:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 11:13:07 AM
On the ethics, I think if you can help charge enough to cover your costs. If it was me I wouldn't be trying to profit in a pandemic on other peoples misery.

The companies that are paying people extra to go to work - Baxter, Tesco etc and the moronic unions that agreed it. They are a disgrace and are actually incentivising people to risk going to work who should not be going. If they put their efforts into making their work places safer they would be much better off. Baxter for a medical device company should hang their head in shame to put a global program like that in place.

How would you propose the feed the country Itchy?

Genuinely interested to hear this.

No doubt they could do more with regards to safety but if supermarkets etc shut down just imagine the anarchy the place would be in?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 12:54:56 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 31, 2020, 12:47:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 11:13:07 AM
On the ethics, I think if you can help charge enough to cover your costs. If it was me I wouldn't be trying to profit in a pandemic on other peoples misery.

The companies that are paying people extra to go to work - Baxter, Tesco etc and the moronic unions that agreed it. They are a disgrace and are actually incentivising people to risk going to work who should not be going. If they put their efforts into making their work places safer they would be much better off. Baxter for a medical device company should hang their head in shame to put a global program like that in place.

How would you propose the feed the country Itchy?

Genuinely interested to hear this.

No doubt they could do more with regards to safety but if supermarkets etc shut down just imagine the anarchy the place would be in?

1)Make work place safe, 2)Hire new people to compensate for higher absenteeism which will now be a new reality and 3) Reward people with a bonus payment when its all over if your motivation really is to reward people (which it isnt)

Dont incentivise sick people to come to work because they are desperate for money. This is a shocking and reckless approach. Baxter for example have been atrocous at making their plant safe - very poor leadership from management at total odds with other in this sector, and then when people started giving out to them from inside  the plant they offer them more money. You have to see the consequences of this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on March 31, 2020, 12:55:53 PM
is this just lazy journalism or is there something else going on? - https://twitter.com/360_stan/status/1244575113003044865

the #emptyhospitals is also interesting on twitter. is it the calm before the storm?

doesn't escape the fact that lots of people have lost their jobs and the world economy is in the shitter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:01:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 12:11:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 12:06:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 11:25:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 11:13:07 AM
On the ethics, I think if you can help charge enough to cover your costs. If it was me I wouldn't be trying to profit in a pandemic on other peoples misery.

The companies that are paying people extra to go to work - Baxter, Tesco etc and the moronic unions that agreed it. They are a disgrace and are actually incentivising people to risk going to work who should not be going. If they put their efforts into making their work places safer they would be much better off. Baxter for a medical device company should hang their head in shame to put a global program like that in place.

Tesco need people to go to work as they are feeding the rest of us. These people are busy and working hard and an extra payment seems appropriate. Now they could do more to make their workplaces safer, to be sure, and so could most employers.

Agreed. I would love to hear Michelle O'Neills solution to how we keep the country(north or south) going. We are at the unfortunate point of having to accept that  many businesses are needed, and will need to remain open with some controls.

In fairness, I don't think that Michelle O'Neill thinks that the likes of Tesco should be closed.

No agreed, but she is peddling a line which gives the impression that many other business can and shouid close. I'm sure by now conor Murphy may have realised that HRMC need the money never mind us needing the services.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 01:04:59 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 31, 2020, 12:55:53 PM
is this just lazy journalism or is there something else going on? - https://twitter.com/360_stan/status/1244575113003044865

the #emptyhospitals is also interesting on twitter. is it the calm before the storm?

It is the same in this country, the drunks and hypochondriacs have abandoned the A&E, while there are less accidents on sites, children's playgrounds etc. As mentioned on RTÉ radio this morning, they are worried that actual ill people are also not going to the doctor.

Quotedoesn't escape the fact that lots of people have lost their jobs and the world economy is in the shitter.

Yep. Although it was reported on RTÉ that Ireland would be one of the least badly affected, while still getting a dose.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:01:34 PM
No agreed, but she is peddling a line which gives the impression that many other business can and shouid close. I'm sure by now conor Murphy may have realised that HRMC need the money never mind us needing the services.

She is arguing for the same approach throughout Ireland, which is right and proper. Dampen down this virus and then you can have more business.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:12:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 01:04:59 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 31, 2020, 12:55:53 PM
is this just lazy journalism or is there something else going on? - https://twitter.com/360_stan/status/1244575113003044865

the #emptyhospitals is also interesting on twitter. is it the calm before the storm?

It is the same in this country, the drunks and hypochondriacs have abandoned the A&E, while there are less accidents on sites, children's playgrounds etc. As mentioned on RTÉ radio this morning, they are worried that actual ill people are also not going to the doctor.

Quotedoesn't escape the fact that lots of people have lost their jobs and the world economy is in the shitter.

Yep. Although it was reported on RTÉ that Ireland would be one of the least badly affected, while still getting a dose.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:01:34 PM
No agreed, but she is peddling a line which gives the impression that many other business can and shouid close. I'm sure by now conor Murphy may have realised that HRMC need the money never mind us needing the services.

She is arguing for the same approach throughout Ireland, which is right and proper. Dampen down this virus and then you can have more business.

But it will not work. Sinn féin have yet to produce a list which they claim would be acceptable to them. Bring solutions not problems
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 31, 2020, 01:19:58 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:01:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 12:11:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 12:06:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 11:25:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 11:13:07 AM
On the ethics, I think if you can help charge enough to cover your costs. If it was me I wouldn't be trying to profit in a pandemic on other peoples misery.

The companies that are paying people extra to go to work - Baxter, Tesco etc and the moronic unions that agreed it. They are a disgrace and are actually incentivising people to risk going to work who should not be going. If they put their efforts into making their work places safer they would be much better off. Baxter for a medical device company should hang their head in shame to put a global program like that in place.

Tesco need people to go to work as they are feeding the rest of us. These people are busy and working hard and an extra payment seems appropriate. Now they could do more to make their workplaces safer, to be sure, and so could most employers.

Agreed. I would love to hear Michelle O'Neills solution to how we keep the country(north or south) going. We are at the unfortunate point of having to accept that  many businesses are needed, and will need to remain open with some controls.

In fairness, I don't think that Michelle O'Neill thinks that the likes of Tesco should be closed.

No agreed, but she is peddling a line which gives the impression that many other business can and shouid close. I'm sure by now conor Murphy may have realised that HRMC need the money never mind us needing the services.

As are the SDLP. Rightly so in my eyes s well. But I wonder why you felt felt the need to hit M'ON

Mr Durkan said the enforced closures of non-essential workplaces must also be in place as soon as possible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on March 31, 2020, 01:30:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:12:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 01:04:59 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 31, 2020, 12:55:53 PM
is this just lazy journalism or is there something else going on? - https://twitter.com/360_stan/status/1244575113003044865

the #emptyhospitals is also interesting on twitter. is it the calm before the storm?

It is the same in this country, the drunks and hypochondriacs have abandoned the A&E, while there are less accidents on sites, children's playgrounds etc. As mentioned on RTÉ radio this morning, they are worried that actual ill people are also not going to the doctor.

Quotedoesn't escape the fact that lots of people have lost their jobs and the world economy is in the shitter.

Yep. Although it was reported on RTÉ that Ireland would be one of the least badly affected, while still getting a dose.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:01:34 PM
No agreed, but she is peddling a line which gives the impression that many other business can and shouid close. I'm sure by now conor Murphy may have realised that HRMC need the money never mind us needing the services.

She is arguing for the same approach throughout Ireland, which is right and proper. Dampen down this virus and then you can have more business.

But it will not work. Sinn féin have yet to produce a list which they claim would be acceptable to them. Bring solutions not problems

Separated by a single sentence.  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 31, 2020, 01:36:48 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 31, 2020, 01:19:58 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:01:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 12:11:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 12:06:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 11:25:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 11:13:07 AM
On the ethics, I think if you can help charge enough to cover your costs. If it was me I wouldn't be trying to profit in a pandemic on other peoples misery.

The companies that are paying people extra to go to work - Baxter, Tesco etc and the moronic unions that agreed it. They are a disgrace and are actually incentivising people to risk going to work who should not be going. If they put their efforts into making their work places safer they would be much better off. Baxter for a medical device company should hang their head in shame to put a global program like that in place.

Tesco need people to go to work as they are feeding the rest of us. These people are busy and working hard and an extra payment seems appropriate. Now they could do more to make their workplaces safer, to be sure, and so could most employers.

Agreed. I would love to hear Michelle O'Neills solution to how we keep the country(north or south) going. We are at the unfortunate point of having to accept that  many businesses are needed, and will need to remain open with some controls.

In fairness, I don't think that Michelle O'Neill thinks that the likes of Tesco should be closed.

No agreed, but she is peddling a line which gives the impression that many other business can and shouid close. I'm sure by now conor Murphy may have realised that HRMC need the money never mind us needing the services.

As are the SDLP. Rightly so in my eyes s well. But I wonder why you felt felt the need to hit M'ON

Mr Durkan said the enforced closures of non-essential workplaces must also be in place as soon as possible.


Playing party politics.

In reference to another point, it will be interesting to see the attendence figures at A&E's when this is all over.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 31, 2020, 01:39:36 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 31, 2020, 01:30:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:12:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 01:04:59 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 31, 2020, 12:55:53 PM
is this just lazy journalism or is there something else going on? - https://twitter.com/360_stan/status/1244575113003044865

the #emptyhospitals is also interesting on twitter. is it the calm before the storm?

It is the same in this country, the drunks and hypochondriacs have abandoned the A&E, while there are less accidents on sites, children's playgrounds etc. As mentioned on RTÉ radio this morning, they are worried that actual ill people are also not going to the doctor.

Quotedoesn't escape the fact that lots of people have lost their jobs and the world economy is in the shitter.

Yep. Although it was reported on RTÉ that Ireland would be one of the least badly affected, while still getting a dose.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:01:34 PM
No agreed, but she is peddling a line which gives the impression that many other business can and shouid close. I'm sure by now conor Murphy may have realised that HRMC need the money never mind us needing the services.

She is arguing for the same approach throughout Ireland, which is right and proper. Dampen down this virus and then you can have more business.

But it will not work. Sinn féin have yet to produce a list which they claim would be acceptable to them. Bring solutions not problems

Separated by a single sentence.  ::)

Ah but you missed the point altogether. It's fine to use the management speak when it relates to someone else but not to yourself!

WRT the Shinners I think it's abundantly clear of their frustration at trying to eek some of their colleagues in the executive off the London teat when it comes to CV-19 policy and hence the mixed messaging which Michelle ended up coming out with a few weeks ago. They were roundly criticised then for it but the SDLP and Alliance kept their heads below the parapet and let Michelle take the hit.

Watch a rerun of View from Stormont last night with the died in the wool Sam McConkey saying London was asleep at the wheel on CV-19.
I personally don't think they were as their herd immunity plan requires a large percentage of the population to catch it but it's got away from them particularly in London.
Boris and their CSO, CMO are out of kilter on this and Michelle was entirely right to say so.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:42:06 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 31, 2020, 01:19:58 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:01:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 12:11:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 12:06:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 11:25:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 11:13:07 AM
On the ethics, I think if you can help charge enough to cover your costs. If it was me I wouldn't be trying to profit in a pandemic on other peoples misery.

The companies that are paying people extra to go to work - Baxter, Tesco etc and the moronic unions that agreed it. They are a disgrace and are actually incentivising people to risk going to work who should not be going. If they put their efforts into making their work places safer they would be much better off. Baxter for a medical device company should hang their head in shame to put a global program like that in place.

Tesco need people to go to work as they are feeding the rest of us. These people are busy and working hard and an extra payment seems appropriate. Now they could do more to make their workplaces safer, to be sure, and so could most employers.

Agreed. I would love to hear Michelle O'Neills solution to how we keep the country(north or south) going. We are at the unfortunate point of having to accept that  many businesses are needed, and will need to remain open with some controls.

In fairness, I don't think that Michelle O'Neill thinks that the likes of Tesco should be closed.

No agreed, but she is peddling a line which gives the impression that many other business can and shouid close. I'm sure by now conor Murphy may have realised that HRMC need the money never mind us needing the services.

As are the SDLP. Rightly so in my eyes s well. But I wonder why you felt felt the need to hit M'ON

Mr Durkan said the enforced closures of non-essential workplaces must also be in place as soon as possible.


Because she is dfm. I am not an SDLP supporter and last time I checked Mr Durkan wasnt calling the shots here
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 31, 2020, 01:45:51 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:42:06 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 31, 2020, 01:19:58 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:01:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 12:11:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 12:06:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 11:25:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 11:13:07 AM
On the ethics, I think if you can help charge enough to cover your costs. If it was me I wouldn't be trying to profit in a pandemic on other peoples misery.

The companies that are paying people extra to go to work - Baxter, Tesco etc and the moronic unions that agreed it. They are a disgrace and are actually incentivising people to risk going to work who should not be going. If they put their efforts into making their work places safer they would be much better off. Baxter for a medical device company should hang their head in shame to put a global program like that in place.

Tesco need people to go to work as they are feeding the rest of us. These people are busy and working hard and an extra payment seems appropriate. Now they could do more to make their workplaces safer, to be sure, and so could most employers.

Agreed. I would love to hear Michelle O'Neills solution to how we keep the country(north or south) going. We are at the unfortunate point of having to accept that  many businesses are needed, and will need to remain open with some controls.

In fairness, I don't think that Michelle O'Neill thinks that the likes of Tesco should be closed.

No agreed, but she is peddling a line which gives the impression that many other business can and shouid close. I'm sure by now conor Murphy may have realised that HRMC need the money never mind us needing the services.

As are the SDLP. Rightly so in my eyes s well. But I wonder why you felt felt the need to hit M'ON

Mr Durkan said the enforced closures of non-essential workplaces must also be in place as soon as possible.


Because she is dfm. I am not an SDLP supporter and last time I checked Mr Durkan wasnt calling the shots here
So just so I'm clear, you don't think None essential businesses should be closed?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:46:48 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 31, 2020, 01:30:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:12:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 01:04:59 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 31, 2020, 12:55:53 PM
is this just lazy journalism or is there something else going on? - https://twitter.com/360_stan/status/1244575113003044865

the #emptyhospitals is also interesting on twitter. is it the calm before the storm?

It is the same in this country, the drunks and hypochondriacs have abandoned the A&E, while there are less accidents on sites, children's playgrounds etc. As mentioned on RTÉ radio this morning, they are worried that actual ill people are also not going to the doctor.

Quotedoesn't escape the fact that lots of people have lost their jobs and the world economy is in the shitter.

Yep. Although it was reported on RTÉ that Ireland would be one of the least badly affected, while still getting a dose.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:01:34 PM
No agreed, but she is peddling a line which gives the impression that many other business can and shouid close. I'm sure by now conor Murphy may have realised that HRMC need the money never mind us needing the services.

She is arguing for the same approach throughout Ireland, which is right and proper. Dampen down this virus and then you can have more business.

But it will not work. Sinn féin have yet to produce a list which they claim would be acceptable to them. Bring solutions not problems

Separated by a single sentence.  ::)

It will not work because sf are calling for a much wider shut down. Any sensible shut down or solution will lead to a list similar to ROI which balances health and economic concerns. Michelle probably knows that, but as someone said, she is playing politics with the anti DUP or FG card
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:48:27 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 31, 2020, 01:45:51 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:42:06 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 31, 2020, 01:19:58 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:01:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 12:11:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 12:06:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 11:25:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 11:13:07 AM
On the ethics, I think if you can help charge enough to cover your costs. If it was me I wouldn't be trying to profit in a pandemic on other peoples misery.

The companies that are paying people extra to go to work - Baxter, Tesco etc and the moronic unions that agreed it. They are a disgrace and are actually incentivising people to risk going to work who should not be going. If they put their efforts into making their work places safer they would be much better off. Baxter for a medical device company should hang their head in shame to put a global program like that in place.

Tesco need people to go to work as they are feeding the rest of us. These people are busy and working hard and an extra payment seems appropriate. Now they could do more to make their workplaces safer, to be sure, and so could most employers.

Agreed. I would love to hear Michelle O'Neills solution to how we keep the country(north or south) going. We are at the unfortunate point of having to accept that  many businesses are needed, and will need to remain open with some controls.

In fairness, I don't think that Michelle O'Neill thinks that the likes of Tesco should be closed.

No agreed, but she is peddling a line which gives the impression that many other business can and shouid close. I'm sure by now conor Murphy may have realised that HRMC need the money never mind us needing the services.

As are the SDLP. Rightly so in my eyes s well. But I wonder why you felt felt the need to hit M'ON

Mr Durkan said the enforced closures of non-essential workplaces must also be in place as soon as possible.


Because she is dfm. I am not an SDLP supporter and last time I checked Mr Durkan wasnt calling the shots here
So just so I'm clear, you don't think None essential businesses should be closed?

Of course I do. But I'd love to see this magical sf list and how it differs from what we currently have
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 02:08:49 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2020, 01:39:36 PM
Watch a rerun of View from Stormont last night with the died in the wool Sam McConkey saying London was asleep at the wheel on CV-19.
I personally don't think they were as their herd immunity plan requires a large percentage of the population to catch it but it's got away from them particularly in London.
Boris and their CSO, CMO are out of kilter on this and Michelle was entirely right to say so.

Sorry, but 2 minutes on the back of a fag packet shows that was never going to add up.

For percentage of the population that needed to get the virus for herd immunity to kick in, given the proportion of those infected that would fall ill and need (a) hospital care and (b) intensive hospital care - it was simply never going to add up given the capacity of the NHS.

Either Cummings was calling the shots or the CSO and CMO are mentally retarded. Which do you think is more likely?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 31, 2020, 02:21:35 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 02:08:49 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2020, 01:39:36 PM
Watch a rerun of View from Stormont last night with the died in the wool Sam McConkey saying London was asleep at the wheel on CV-19.
I personally don't think they were as their herd immunity plan requires a large percentage of the population to catch it but it's got away from them particularly in London.
Boris and their CSO, CMO are out of kilter on this and Michelle was entirely right to say so.

Sorry, but 2 minutes on the back of a fag packet shows that was never going to add up.

For percentage of the population that needed to get the virus for herd immunity to kick in, given the proportion of those infected that would fall ill and need (a) hospital care and (b) intensive hospital care - it was simply never going to add up given the capacity of the NHS.

Either Cummings was calling the shots or the CSO and CMO are mentally retarded. Which do you think is more likely?

I don't think herd immunity was ever a real thing... I reckon it was talked about and Cummings floated it to journo's (Downing street source") and the Govt quickly dismissed it. Look it was probably talked about/considered and then dismissed but I haven't seen anything to say it was the official policy to go with herd immunity.

There's plenty of things to beat the Govt up about but herd immunity isn't really one of them. Their disastrous communication, lack of speed in calling a full lockdown, lack of testing and PPE being the major points of focus!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on March 31, 2020, 02:39:36 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 31, 2020, 02:21:35 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 02:08:49 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2020, 01:39:36 PM
Watch a rerun of View from Stormont last night with the died in the wool Sam McConkey saying London was asleep at the wheel on CV-19.
I personally don't think they were as their herd immunity plan requires a large percentage of the population to catch it but it's got away from them particularly in London.
Boris and their CSO, CMO are out of kilter on this and Michelle was entirely right to say so.

Sorry, but 2 minutes on the back of a fag packet shows that was never going to add up.

For percentage of the population that needed to get the virus for herd immunity to kick in, given the proportion of those infected that would fall ill and need (a) hospital care and (b) intensive hospital care - it was simply never going to add up given the capacity of the NHS.

Either Cummings was calling the shots or the CSO and CMO are mentally retarded. Which do you think is more likely?

I don't think herd immunity was ever a real thing... I reckon it was talked about and Cummings floated it to journo's (Downing street source") and the Govt quickly dismissed it. Look it was probably talked about/considered and then dismissed but I haven't seen anything to say it was the official policy to go with herd immunity.

There's plenty of things to beat the Govt up about but herd immunity isn't really one of them. Their disastrous communication, lack of speed in calling a full lockdown, lack of testing and PPE being the major points of focus!!

It definitely was a real thing. Wasn't Boris's idea though of course, and they changed tack after no more than a few days
According to the BBC website a few days, the Dutch are taking a herd immunity approach as part of their plans
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 02:40:42 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 31, 2020, 02:21:35 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 02:08:49 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2020, 01:39:36 PM
Watch a rerun of View from Stormont last night with the died in the wool Sam McConkey saying London was asleep at the wheel on CV-19.
I personally don't think they were as their herd immunity plan requires a large percentage of the population to catch it but it's got away from them particularly in London.
Boris and their CSO, CMO are out of kilter on this and Michelle was entirely right to say so.

Sorry, but 2 minutes on the back of a fag packet shows that was never going to add up.

For percentage of the population that needed to get the virus for herd immunity to kick in, given the proportion of those infected that would fall ill and need (a) hospital care and (b) intensive hospital care - it was simply never going to add up given the capacity of the NHS.

Either Cummings was calling the shots or the CSO and CMO are mentally retarded. Which do you think is more likely?

I don't think herd immunity was ever a real thing... I reckon it was talked about and Cummings floated it to journo's (Downing street source") and the Govt quickly dismissed it. Look it was probably talked about/considered and then dismissed but I haven't seen anything to say it was the official policy to go with herd immunity.

There's plenty of things to beat the Govt up about but herd immunity isn't really one of them. Their disastrous communication, lack of speed in calling a full lockdown, lack of testing and PPE being the major points of focus!!

Dunno about that:

https://www.ft.com/content/38a81588-6508-11ea-b3f3-fe4680ea68b5

QuoteBritain's chief scientific adviser stoked controversy on Friday when he said that about 40m people in the UK could need to catch the coronavirus to build up "herd immunity" and prevent the disease coming back in the future.

Defending Prime Minister Boris Johnson's decision not to follow other European countries by closing schools and banning mass gatherings, Patrick Vallance said it was the government's aim to "reduce the peak of the epidemic, pull it down and broaden it" while protecting the elderly and vulnerable.

But Sir Patrick told Sky News that experts estimated that about 60 per cent of the UK's 66m population would have to contract coronavirus in order for society to build up immunity.

"Communities will become immune to it and that's going to be an important part of controlling this longer term," he said. "About 60 per cent is the sort of figure you need to get herd immunity."

In another interview with the BBC, Sir Patrick said: "If you suppress something very, very hard, when you release those measures it bounces back and it bounces back at the wrong time."

He added: "Our aim is to try to reduce the peak, broaden the peak, not suppress it completely; also, because the vast majority of people get a mild illness, to build up some kind of herd immunity so more people are immune to this disease and we reduce the transmission, at the same time we protect those who are most vulnerable to it."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on March 31, 2020, 02:41:34 PM
Of course herd immunity is a thing. However, as has been pointed out from the very beginning, it's not a strategy for managing the spread of a pandemic. It's a consequence of allowing that pandemic to spread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on March 31, 2020, 02:41:34 PM
Former World Health Organisation director Prof Karol Sikora explains why the threat from the virus should drop after the peak is reached.

"If you go to Korea tomorrow, you'll find that the majority of people have had the virus - some of them won't even know they've had the virus - but they'll still be immune to it.

"Herd immunity grows, once it gets to 50% the virus has nowhere to go.

"At the moment, a person going out onto the street has the potential to infect up to 2.5 people with the virus

"But once other people around them become immune, there's nowhere for the virus to go, so the pandemic disappears and that's always the same with pandemics.

"The difficulty is to make that judgement call about when to let social distancing relax, to allow businesses to open, to allow the economy to grow."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-northern-ireland-52069262 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-northern-ireland-52069262)

Could our resident experts advise whether this is dangerous and as such should the Professor be sanctioned?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 31, 2020, 02:43:41 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 02:08:49 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 31, 2020, 01:39:36 PM
Watch a rerun of View from Stormont last night with the died in the wool Sam McConkey saying London was asleep at the wheel on CV-19.
I personally don't think they were as their herd immunity plan requires a large percentage of the population to catch it but it's got away from them particularly in London.
Boris and their CSO, CMO are out of kilter on this and Michelle was entirely right to say so.

Sorry, but 2 minutes on the back of a fag packet shows that was never going to add up.

For percentage of the population that needed to get the virus for herd immunity to kick in, given the proportion of those infected that would fall ill and need (a) hospital care and (b) intensive hospital care - it was simply never going to add up given the capacity of the NHS.

Either Cummings was calling the shots or the CSO and CMO are mentally retarded. Which do you think is more likely?

A bit of A and a bit of B and a bit of keeping the economy going with Brexit imminent.

The flaws in their approach and modelling have large holes in them as was being pointed out to them by the scientific community at large and they either willfully or through ignorance ignored the experiences of what was happening in Wuhan as they knew better, I don't know but they have seemed to have done an about turn.


Whether than was time enough I don't know.

I'm working my way through this;

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/03/23/covid-19-special-investigation-part-one-the-politicised-science-that-nudged-the-johnson-government-to-safeguard-the-economy-over-british-lives/ (https://bylinetimes.com/2020/03/23/covid-19-special-investigation-part-one-the-politicised-science-that-nudged-the-johnson-government-to-safeguard-the-economy-over-british-lives/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 02:50:21 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 31, 2020, 02:39:36 PM
According to the BBC website a few days, the Dutch are taking a herd immunity approach as part of their plans

Well, we need to be careful.

Herd immunity will become a consideration in how the lockdown is eased.

1. Lockdown throttled in severity to keep numbers admitted to hospitals within capacity of NHS.
2. As time passes, if the lockdown throttling actions were identical, numbers admitted to hospitals should drop off as immune people break more and more links in the infection transmission.
3. This means lockdown measures can be eased further in the more distant future without exceeding NHS capacity.
4. Eventually a vaccine will become available which either will go to the most vulnerable first (i.e. elderly), or go to those at greatest risk of spreading the virus (i.e. care home workers).

2, 3 & 4 all contain elements of the herd immunity philosophy.


[The problem was always with letting everyone get it almost at once as a means of obtaining herd immunity. I cannot emphasis how stupid that was. We heard Johnson say that up to 20% of the workforce could be off with it at one time. That line of thought was ridiculous.]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on March 31, 2020, 02:51:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:46:48 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 31, 2020, 01:30:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:12:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 01:04:59 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 31, 2020, 12:55:53 PM
is this just lazy journalism or is there something else going on? - https://twitter.com/360_stan/status/1244575113003044865

the #emptyhospitals is also interesting on twitter. is it the calm before the storm?

It is the same in this country, the drunks and hypochondriacs have abandoned the A&E, while there are less accidents on sites, children's playgrounds etc. As mentioned on RTÉ radio this morning, they are worried that actual ill people are also not going to the doctor.

Quotedoesn't escape the fact that lots of people have lost their jobs and the world economy is in the shitter.

Yep. Although it was reported on RTÉ that Ireland would be one of the least badly affected, while still getting a dose.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:01:34 PM
No agreed, but she is peddling a line which gives the impression that many other business can and shouid close. I'm sure by now conor Murphy may have realised that HRMC need the money never mind us needing the services.

She is arguing for the same approach throughout Ireland, which is right and proper. Dampen down this virus and then you can have more business.

But it will not work. Sinn féin have yet to produce a list which they claim would be acceptable to them. Bring solutions not problems

Separated by a single sentence.  ::)

It will not work because sf are calling for a much wider shut down. Any sensible shut down or solution will lead to a list similar to ROI which balances health and economic concerns. Michelle probably knows that, but as someone said, she is playing politics with the anti DUP or FG card

I thought we were into bringing solutions not problems?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 03:03:04 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 31, 2020, 02:51:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:46:48 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 31, 2020, 01:30:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:12:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 01:04:59 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 31, 2020, 12:55:53 PM
is this just lazy journalism or is there something else going on? - https://twitter.com/360_stan/status/1244575113003044865

the #emptyhospitals is also interesting on twitter. is it the calm before the storm?

It is the same in this country, the drunks and hypochondriacs have abandoned the A&E, while there are less accidents on sites, children's playgrounds etc. As mentioned on RTÉ radio this morning, they are worried that actual ill people are also not going to the doctor.

Quotedoesn't escape the fact that lots of people have lost their jobs and the world economy is in the shitter.

Yep. Although it was reported on RTÉ that Ireland would be one of the least badly affected, while still getting a dose.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:01:34 PM
No agreed, but she is peddling a line which gives the impression that many other business can and shouid close. I'm sure by now conor Murphy may have realised that HRMC need the money never mind us needing the services.

She is arguing for the same approach throughout Ireland, which is right and proper. Dampen down this virus and then you can have more business.

But it will not work. Sinn féin have yet to produce a list which they claim would be acceptable to them. Bring solutions not problems

Separated by a single sentence.  ::)

It will not work because sf are calling for a much wider shut down. Any sensible shut down or solution will lead to a list similar to ROI which balances health and economic concerns. Michelle probably knows that, but as someone said, she is playing politics with the anti DUP or FG card

I thought we were into bringing solutions not problems?

That's s my point. The solution is there as good as it can be and in place. But of course Mary lou et al still looking for further shut down. Sin é
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 03:33:44 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on March 31, 2020, 02:41:34 PM
Former World Health Organisation director Prof Karol Sikora explains why the threat from the virus should drop after the peak is reached.

"If you go to Korea tomorrow, you'll find that the majority of people have had the virus - some of them won't even know they've had the virus - but they'll still be immune to it.

"Herd immunity grows, once it gets to 50% the virus has nowhere to go.

"At the moment, a person going out onto the street has the potential to infect up to 2.5 people with the virus

"But once other people around them become immune, there's nowhere for the virus to go, so the pandemic disappears and that's always the same with pandemics.

"The difficulty is to make that judgement call about when to let social distancing relax, to allow businesses to open, to allow the economy to grow."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-northern-ireland-52069262 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-northern-ireland-52069262)

Could our resident experts advise whether this is dangerous and as such should the Professor be sanctioned?

Everything said is widely accepted except the bit in bold. Until there is an antibody test, the bit in bold cannot be verified and is little more than a guess.


Which means the judgement call must very much err on the side of caution - and then observe how the rate of infections reacts to the relaxation. That should give a (limited) picture of transmission and from that, guesstimates at how wide the immunity already is.

Hopefully, there is an antibody test within the month and perhaps by July we'll know where actual numbers are for those that are already immune.


I would anticipate given where we are with regards lockdown today and how close antibody tests supposedly are, there will be at least population sampling antibody testing done before significant relaxation of the lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on March 31, 2020, 03:41:29 PM
Some experts, doctors and economists on this site.

The experience they have on the various effects of this pandemic in unreal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 03:55:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 31, 2020, 03:41:29 PM
Some experts, doctors and economists on this site.

The experience they have on the various effects of this pandemic in unreal.

I know, thank God. Otherwise we woukd have to revert to them clowns in Stormont. Its good to know that Michelle took time to welcome in the news that we can kill wains up to 12 weeks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 31, 2020, 03:57:20 PM
Johnson & Johnson, a company with an interesting back story seem to think they have the vaccination for the Coronavirus.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 03:59:30 PM
Quote from: marty34 on March 31, 2020, 03:41:29 PM
Some experts, doctors and economists on this site.

The experience they have on the various effects of this pandemic in unreal.

Nothing anyone is posting is earth shattering. Its pretty much a bit of reading along with common sense.

Unfortunately when you think just how stupid the average person is - and realise that by definition that means half the population are even stupider - then its small wonder that a bit of applied common sense might appear as f**king genius to some.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 04:03:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 03:03:04 PM
That's s my point. The solution is there as good as it can be and in place. But of course Mary lou et al still looking for further shut down. Sin é

At this point more rigorous testing and backgrounding to understand where new cases are emerging from and identifying any weak links in current procedures would be the best way forward.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 04:04:28 PM
Has anyone outside Gaaboard proved that once you get this virus you're immune afterwards?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 31, 2020, 04:10:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 04:04:28 PM
Has anyone outside Gaaboard proved that once you get this virus you're immune afterwards?

The Germans lead this thinking. However the results of their study won't be available to sometime early April.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 31, 2020, 04:13:30 PM
What does German Gaaboard think of this though 😉
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 31, 2020, 04:21:30 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 31, 2020, 04:10:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 04:04:28 PM
Has anyone outside Gaaboard proved that once you get this virus you're immune afterwards?

The Germans lead this thinking. However the results of their study won't be available to sometime early April.
Nothing is proved but with similar viruses SARS, MERS, the immune system was better set up to fight the infection second time round. However, if like flu it comes in multiple "flavours" then we are in an arms race every time it comes back.
Good article in the Guardian Long Good Read about how quickly they can get up and running in the fight though the proving and manufacture still take the bulk of the time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on March 31, 2020, 04:35:45 PM
 Can you catch the coronavirus twice? We don't know yet (https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24532754-600-can-you-catch-the-coronavirus-twice-we-dont-know-yet/#ixzz6IHTOiXwL)

We don't have enough evidence yet to know if recovering from covid-19 induces immunity, or whether any immunity would give long-lasting protection against the coronavirus

HEALTH 25 March 2020
By Graham Lawton

SAY you have caught covid-19 and recovered – are you now immune for life, or could you catch it again? We just don't know yet.

In February, reports emerged of a woman in Japan who had been given the all-clear after having covid-19 but then tested positive for the SARS-CoV-2 virus a second time. There have also been reports of a man in Japan testing positive after being given the all-clear, and anecdotal cases of second positives have emerged from China, too.

This has raised fears that people may not develop immunity to the virus. This would mean that, until we have an effective vaccine, we could all experience repeated rounds of infection.

But the science is still uncertain. "There is some anecdotal evidence of reinfections, but we really don't know," says Ira Longini at the University of Florida. It may be that the tests used were unreliable, which is a problem with tests for other respiratory viruses, says Jeffrey Shaman at Columbia University in New York.

Early signs from small animal experiments are reassuring. A team from the Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences in Beijing exposed four rhesus macaques to the virus. A week later, all four were ill with covid-19-like symptoms and had high virus loads. Two weeks later, the macaques had recovered and were confirmed to have antibodies to the virus in their bloodstream.

The researchers then tried to reinfect two of them but failed, which suggests the animals were immune (bioRxiv, doi.org/ggn8r8). "That finding is very encouraging, as it suggests that it is possible to induce protective immunity against the virus," says Alfredo Garzino-Demo at the University of Maryland School of Medicine.

But that doesn't necessarily mean long-term immunity. There are other coronaviruses circulating among humans and although they induce immunity, this doesn't last. "Some other viruses in the coronavirus family, such as those that cause common colds, tend to induce immunity that is relatively short-lived, at around three months," says Peter Openshaw at Imperial College London.

"Because [the virus] is so new, we do not yet know how long any protection generated through infection will last. We urgently need more research looking at the immune responses of people who have recovered from infection to be sure," says Openshaw.

Other immunologists agree. "Immunity to SARS-CoV-2 is not yet well understood and we do not know how protective the antibody response will be in the long-term," says Erica Bickerton at the Pirbright Institute in the UK.

"For ordinary coronavirus infections, you do not get lasting immunity," says Longini. "You can be infected over and over, and we really don't know for this novel coronavirus if that's also true."

Other infectious disease specialists are more optimistic. "The evidence is increasingly convincing that infection with SARS-CoV-2 leads to an antibody response that is protective. Most likely this protection is for life," says Martin Hibberd at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine. "Although we need more evidence to be sure of this, people who have recovered are unlikely to be infected with SARS-CoV-2 again."

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 04:56:08 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 31, 2020, 04:35:45 PM
This has raised fears that people may not develop immunity to the virus. This would mean that, until we have an effective vaccine, we could all experience repeated rounds of infection.

This has raised fears that Graham Lawton doesn't understand how vaccines work.

If fighting off the virus itself doesn't give you at least short term immunity - then as sure as night follows day - a vaccine won't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 05:05:47 PM
Some common sense

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0331/1127452-tanaiste-ni/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 05:14:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 05:05:47 PM
Some common sense

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0331/1127452-tanaiste-ni/

two weeks later, but butter late than never.
everything will work until testing at the airports is needed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 05:32:53 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 03:33:44 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on March 31, 2020, 02:41:34 PM
Former World Health Organisation director Prof Karol Sikora explains why the threat from the virus should drop after the peak is reached.

"If you go to Korea tomorrow, you'll find that the majority of people have had the virus - some of them won't even know they've had the virus - but they'll still be immune to it.

"Herd immunity grows, once it gets to 50% the virus has nowhere to go.

"At the moment, a person going out onto the street has the potential to infect up to 2.5 people with the virus

"But once other people around them become immune, there's nowhere for the virus to go, so the pandemic disappears and that's always the same with pandemics.

"The difficulty is to make that judgement call about when to let social distancing relax, to allow businesses to open, to allow the economy to grow."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-northern-ireland-52069262 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-northern-ireland-52069262)

Could our resident experts advise whether this is dangerous and as such should the Professor be sanctioned?

Everything said is widely accepted except the bit in bold. Until there is an antibody test, the bit in bold cannot be verified and is little more than a guess.


Which means the judgement call must very much err on the side of caution - and then observe how the rate of infections reacts to the relaxation. That should give a (limited) picture of transmission and from that, guesstimates at how wide the immunity already is.

Hopefully, there is an antibody test within the month and perhaps by July we'll know where actual numbers are for those that are already immune.


I would anticipate given where we are with regards lockdown today and how close antibody tests supposedly are, there will be at least population sampling antibody testing done before significant relaxation of the lockdown.

Gonna come back to this - this in RTE jumped out at me and I may have to revise my opinion - I'm not going to agree with the bolded sentence in first quote - its too early yet - but there are possible inferences that could be drawn in that direction:

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0331/1127456-covid19-coronavirus-ireland-health/

QuoteThere are now 23 clusters in nursing homes and 21 in hospitals around the country.

New data from the centre shows that nursing home clusters account for 20% of all clusters of the infection.

The data is based on 2,475 confirmed cases of Covid-19 reported up until midnight on Sunday, 28 March.

It shows there are now 111 clusters of infection, involving 428 people.

This includes 21 clusters in hospitals, 24 in private houses, 16 related to travel, one linked to a public house and one linked to a hotel.

According to the HPSC, a cluster is three or more cases in an institution within a 72-hour period.

With such a high proportion of clusters being nursing homes - which would be the places you'd most expect precautions to have been both taken seriously and early - does that mean many more households have it and are experiencing mild to no symptoms?

It certainly wouldn't be a massive leap.

Which of course would mean its much more prevalent around the general population than might be expected - certainly more widespread than I had thought it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 31, 2020, 05:39:04 PM
The missus was saying the same earlier about nursing homes. Deaths are explainable due to the nature of the residents but why would the cases be clustered there?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 05:45:35 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 31, 2020, 05:39:04 PM
The missus was saying the same earlier about nursing homes. Deaths are explainable due to the nature of the residents but why would the cases be clustered there?

Indeed.

They are obviously going to be more susceptible to it - which should mean a larger number of them being bad enough to be tested & diagnosed.

But that doesn't mean the wider population don't have it in equal proportions - just that they are possibly not bad enough to be tested & diagnosed.

No proof without antibody testing, but its certainly a train of thought that'll gather momentum.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 07:00:34 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 31, 2020, 05:39:04 PM
The missus was saying the same earlier about nursing homes. Deaths are explainable due to the nature of the residents but why would the cases be clustered there?
Because the residents are all corralled close together all day?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 07:43:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 07:00:34 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 31, 2020, 05:39:04 PM
The missus was saying the same earlier about nursing homes. Deaths are explainable due to the nature of the residents but why would the cases be clustered there?
Because the residents are all corralled close together all day?

Not only that, but people are holding on to handrails and the like and the staff have to work very closely with them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on March 31, 2020, 07:58:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 03:03:04 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 31, 2020, 02:51:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:46:48 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 31, 2020, 01:30:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:12:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 01:04:59 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 31, 2020, 12:55:53 PM
is this just lazy journalism or is there something else going on? - https://twitter.com/360_stan/status/1244575113003044865

the #emptyhospitals is also interesting on twitter. is it the calm before the storm?

It is the same in this country, the drunks and hypochondriacs have abandoned the A&E, while there are less accidents on sites, children's playgrounds etc. As mentioned on RTÉ radio this morning, they are worried that actual ill people are also not going to the doctor.

Quotedoesn't escape the fact that lots of people have lost their jobs and the world economy is in the shitter.

Yep. Although it was reported on RTÉ that Ireland would be one of the least badly affected, while still getting a dose.

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 31, 2020, 01:01:34 PM
No agreed, but she is peddling a line which gives the impression that many other business can and shouid close. I'm sure by now conor Murphy may have realised that HRMC need the money never mind us needing the services.

She is arguing for the same approach throughout Ireland, which is right and proper. Dampen down this virus and then you can have more business.

But it will not work. Sinn féin have yet to produce a list which they claim would be acceptable to them. Bring solutions not problems

Separated by a single sentence.  ::)

It will not work because sf are calling for a much wider shut down. Any sensible shut down or solution will lead to a list similar to ROI which balances health and economic concerns. Michelle probably knows that, but as someone said, she is playing politics with the anti DUP or FG card

I thought we were into bringing solutions not problems?

That's s my point. The solution is there as good as it can be and in place. But of course Mary lou et al still looking for further shut down. Sin é

O'Neill was arguing for the approaches on both sides of the border to be harmonised.

Currently they are not, so to say "The solution is there as good as it can be and in place." is just factually and demonstrably wrong.

I don't know why you would say that.  Unless you had an agenda.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 08:18:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 07:43:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 07:00:34 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 31, 2020, 05:39:04 PM
The missus was saying the same earlier about nursing homes. Deaths are explainable due to the nature of the residents but why would the cases be clustered there?
Because the residents are all corralled close together all day?

Not only that, but people are holding on to handrails and the like and the staff have to work very closely with them.

Is that significantly different from a house where everyone is sharing a kitchen (and normally a bathroom too)?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 31, 2020, 08:22:36 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 08:18:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 07:43:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 07:00:34 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 31, 2020, 05:39:04 PM
The missus was saying the same earlier about nursing homes. Deaths are explainable due to the nature of the residents but why would the cases be clustered there?
Because the residents are all corralled close together all day?

Not only that, but people are holding on to handrails and the like and the staff have to work very closely with them.

Is that significantly different from a house where everyone is sharing a kitchen (and normally a bathroom too)?
No, which would explain the 24 clusters in private houses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 08:27:37 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 31, 2020, 03:57:20 PM
Johnson & Johnson, a company with an interesting back story seem to think they have the vaccination for the Coronavirus.

6 months away for production at best
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 08:30:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 04:04:28 PM
Has anyone outside Gaaboard proved that once you get this virus you're immune afterwards?

Not yet. Studies on the way. Many other viral infections work out that way but many other viral infections arent this infectious or have this level of mortality. So right now it's not known.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 08:33:50 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 08:30:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 04:04:28 PM
Has anyone outside Gaaboard proved that once you get this virus you're immune afterwards?

Not yet. Studies on the way. Many other viral infections work out that way but many other viral infections arent this infectious or have this level of mortality. So right now it's not known.

Notably, they found antibodies to SARS in people 15 years after they have recovered. Given that SARS was a close cousin of this dose, that does provide some encouragement. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 08:35:49 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 31, 2020, 08:22:36 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 08:18:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 07:43:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 07:00:34 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 31, 2020, 05:39:04 PM
The missus was saying the same earlier about nursing homes. Deaths are explainable due to the nature of the residents but why would the cases be clustered there?
Because the residents are all corralled close together all day?

Not only that, but people are holding on to handrails and the like and the staff have to work very closely with them.

Is that significantly different from a house where everyone is sharing a kitchen (and normally a bathroom too)?
No, which would explain the 24 clusters in private houses.

But, given there are many, many, many more private houses than care homes - why do care homes form such a disproportionately large amount of the clusters?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 08:36:58 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 08:33:50 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 08:30:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 04:04:28 PM
Has anyone outside Gaaboard proved that once you get this virus you're immune afterwards?

Not yet. Studies on the way. Many other viral infections work out that way but many other viral infections arent this infectious or have this level of mortality. So right now it's not known.

Notably, they found antibodies to SARS in people 15 years after they have recovered. Given that SARS was a close cousin of this dose, that does provide some encouragement.

Do you lose the antibodies or does the virus mutate far enough that the antibodies aren't effective?

Correction: Of course you lose the antibodies - do you lose the ability to make the antibodies or does the virus mutate far enough that the antibody template is ineffective?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 31, 2020, 08:37:23 PM
More coming and going??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 08:38:49 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 31, 2020, 08:37:23 PM
More coming and going??

Surely surely surely people are not visiting care homes at the moment?!?!

[Staff is a valid point I guess]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on March 31, 2020, 08:43:57 PM
17 dead today. Highest number yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 31, 2020, 08:45:10 PM
Would they not have been contracted weeks ago though?

17 dead :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on March 31, 2020, 08:56:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 08:35:49 PM

But, given there are many, many, many more private houses than care homes - why do care homes form such a disproportionately large amount of the clusters?
Didn't you answer your own question earlier?  My husband's aunt is in ICU in St Vincent's with the virus, but her daughter and husband haven't been tested yet as they don't have any symptoms.  The three of them may have contracted it, but only one bad enough to be tested, and so no formal "cluster".

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 05:45:35 PM


Indeed.

They are obviously going to be more susceptible to it - which should mean a larger number of them being bad enough to be tested & diagnosed.

But that doesn't mean the wider population don't have it in equal proportions - just that they are possibly not bad enough to be tested & diagnosed.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 08:59:30 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 08:36:58 PM
Correction: Of course you lose the antibodies - do you lose the ability to make the antibodies or does the virus mutate far enough that the antibody template is ineffective?

Apparently, this virus does not mutate in the way flu does.

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 08:38:49 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 31, 2020, 08:37:23 PM
More coming and going??

Surely surely surely people are not visiting care homes at the moment?!?!

[Staff is a valid point I guess]

People probably were visiting the care homes until a fortnight ago and many of these people have likely been sick since then.
Even the number tested today were probably people who got it 10 days ago and were swabbed on Thursday or Friday. They'd nearly be over it now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on March 31, 2020, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 31, 2020, 08:22:36 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 08:18:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 07:43:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 07:00:34 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 31, 2020, 05:39:04 PM
The missus was saying the same earlier about nursing homes. Deaths are explainable due to the nature of the residents but why would the cases be clustered there?
Because the residents are all corralled close together all day?

Not only that, but people are holding on to handrails and the like and the staff have to work very closely with them.

Is that significantly different from a house where everyone is sharing a kitchen (and normally a bathroom too)?
No, which would explain the 24 clusters in private houses.

No. of Private houses  >>>>>  No. of care homes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: MayoBuck on March 31, 2020, 09:14:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 08:30:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 04:04:28 PM
Has anyone outside Gaaboard proved that once you get this virus you're immune afterwards?

Not yet. Studies on the way. Many other viral infections work out that way but many other viral infections arent this infectious or have this level of mortality. So right now it's not known.

Dr Anthony Fauci (medical expert in America) said he expects people will become immune once they recover from covid-19. However, not enough people will have immunity to prevent a second wave of the outbreak towards the end of this year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 09:34:55 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 31, 2020, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 31, 2020, 08:22:36 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 08:18:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 07:43:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 07:00:34 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 31, 2020, 05:39:04 PM
The missus was saying the same earlier about nursing homes. Deaths are explainable due to the nature of the residents but why would the cases be clustered there?
Because the residents are all corralled close together all day?

Not only that, but people are holding on to handrails and the like and the staff have to work very closely with them.

Is that significantly different from a house where everyone is sharing a kitchen (and normally a bathroom too)?
No, which would explain the 24 clusters in private houses.

No. of Private houses  >>>>>  No. of care homes
Average age of people in private homes v average age of folks in nursing homes.
If you're in your 80s the oul mileage on the clock will come against you if anything is going round.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 31, 2020, 09:56:28 PM
13 & 19 year olds dead from the virus in the UK.
If they had no underlying health issues then that is a game changer (doesn't make it any easier on the families mind).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 09:59:02 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 31, 2020, 09:56:28 PM
13 & 19 year olds dead from the virus in the UK.
If they had no underlying health issues then that is a game changer (doesn't make it any easier on the families mind).

and a 12-year-old in Belgium.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 31, 2020, 10:00:57 PM
Out of 41,000 deaths? I'd have thought there was more
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on March 31, 2020, 10:03:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 08:59:30 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 08:36:58 PM
Correction: Of course you lose the antibodies - do you lose the ability to make the antibodies or does the virus mutate far enough that the antibody template is ineffective?

Apparently, this virus does not mutate in the way flu does.

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 08:38:49 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 31, 2020, 08:37:23 PM
More coming and going??

Surely surely surely people are not visiting care homes at the moment?!?!

[Staff is a valid point I guess]

People probably were visiting the care homes until a fortnight ago and many of these people have likely been sick since then.
Even the number tested today were probably people who got it 10 days ago and were swabbed on Thursday or Friday. They'd nearly be over it now.

.....yet!

I don't think I have read that anywhere. If this is the case it would make it easier to develop a vaccine which could potentially be bundled in with the flu jab each year to protect the vulnerable while the test of us rise it out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 31, 2020, 10:09:56 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 31, 2020, 09:56:28 PM
13 & 19 year olds dead from the virus in the UK.
If they had no underlying health issues then that is a game changer (doesn't make it any easier on the families mind).
Only if it materially changes the stats
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 31, 2020, 10:13:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 31, 2020, 10:09:56 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 31, 2020, 09:56:28 PM
13 & 19 year olds dead from the virus in the UK.
If they had no underlying health issues then that is a game changer (doesn't make it any easier on the families mind).
Only if it materially changes the stats

If more kids die the panic will set in among parents and to be fair that hasn't been a concern on the island.

Kids could carry it but it didn't have much of an impact with regards to causing death
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 10:16:03 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 31, 2020, 10:03:41 PM
.....yet!

I don't think I have read that anywhere. If this is the case it would make it easier to develop a vaccine which could potentially be bundled in with the flu jab each year to protect the vulnerable while the test of us rise it out.

Apparently, it is a bi like SARS and mutates at about half the rate of flu. Given that there is a useful, if not perfect, vaccination for flu then you could add Covid19 to the jab.

(https://images.theconversation.com/files/320346/original/file-20200313-27019-1vaqeli.jpeg)

this figure originated here (https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.03.05.976167), but the rest of the paper is a bit specialist.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on March 31, 2020, 10:21:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 09:34:55 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 31, 2020, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on March 31, 2020, 08:22:36 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 31, 2020, 08:18:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 31, 2020, 07:43:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 07:00:34 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 31, 2020, 05:39:04 PM
The missus was saying the same earlier about nursing homes. Deaths are explainable due to the nature of the residents but why would the cases be clustered there?
Because the residents are all corralled close together all day?

Not only that, but people are holding on to handrails and the like and the staff have to work very closely with them.

Is that significantly different from a house where everyone is sharing a kitchen (and normally a bathroom too)?
No, which would explain the 24 clusters in private houses.

No. of Private houses  >>>>>  No. of care homes
Average age of people in private homes v average age of folks in nursing homes.
If you're in your 80s the oul mileage on the clock will come against you if anything is going round.

It's clusters. Not individual cases.

No. of private homes with old people in them >>>> No. of care homes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: MayoBuck on March 31, 2020, 10:43:41 PM
Apparently a load of college students who lost weekend jobs got the €350 today. Despite their average weekly incomes being well under €200! Obviously the whole thing was rushed through but there's going to be a huge bill for the taxpayer to repay in coming years.  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Chief on March 31, 2020, 11:28:57 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on March 31, 2020, 10:43:41 PM
Apparently a load of college students who lost weekend jobs got the €350 today. Despite their average weekly incomes being well under €200! Obviously the whole thing was rushed through but there's going to be a huge bill for the taxpayer to repay in coming years.  ::)

Yeah probably, but who cares right now.

Focus on keeping the show on the road at any financial cost right now, and we can figure out repayments later down the line.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 11:53:21 PM
98.2% survival rate for Covid 19.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 01, 2020, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 11:53:21 PM
98.2% survival rate for Covid 19.

Similar to the common flu, meanwhile 5G masts are being erected worldwide these will kill the final covid victims fatality number squared. The fatalities from this will be a mix of the population young, middle age and the old unlike this covid 19 which is killing people with an average age well above 75.
I don't think governments will pursue a lock down of the general population when the 5G are up and running, they probbly should though. Tis amazing how so few can control the worlds population.
The vaccine being developed should be another cause for concern, people should properly research these instead of trusting their local manchurian doctor.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on April 01, 2020, 09:58:59 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 01, 2020, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 11:53:21 PM
98.2% survival rate for Covid 19.

Similar to the common flu, meanwhile 5G masks are being erected worldwide these will kill the final covid victims fatality number squared. The fatalities from this will be a mix of the population young, middle age and the old unlike this covid 19 which is killing people with an average age well above 75.
I don't think governments will pursue a lock down of the general population when the 5G are up and running, they probbly should though. Tis amazing how so few can control the worlds population.
The vaccine being developed should be another cause for concern, people should properly research these instead of trusting their local manchurian doctor.

Any network providers doing good deals on 5G contracts? Sounds like it will be a great improvement on 4G. Think the tin foil hat should still be safe enough all the same...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 10:09:23 AM
Quote from: MayoBuck on March 31, 2020, 09:14:45 PM
Quote from: Itchy on March 31, 2020, 08:30:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 04:04:28 PM
Has anyone outside Gaaboard proved that once you get this virus you're immune afterwards?

Not yet. Studies on the way. Many other viral infections work out that way but many other viral infections arent this infectious or have this level of mortality. So right now it's not known.

Dr Anthony Fauci (medical expert in America) said he expects people will become immune once they recover from covid-19. However, not enough people will have immunity to prevent a second wave of the outbreak towards the end of this year.

I watch the UK Governments 5pm daily brief and apart from the lies spewing out from Gove or whatever Tory party stooge is put forward you get the odd nugget from the "experts" either side.
Prof Stephen Powis of the NHS when questioned about testing front line staff of the NHS to get them back to work made a brief comment that yes indeed it was important to know if they didn't have the virus and also pointed out that the antibody test that they're pushing may mean that the staff who've had CV-19 and recovered should be immune.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 01, 2020, 10:14:44 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 01, 2020, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 11:53:21 PM
98.2% survival rate for Covid 19.

Similar to the common flu, meanwhile 5G masks are being erected worldwide these will kill the final covid victims fatality number squared. The fatalities from this will be a mix of the population young, middle age and the old unlike this covid 19 which is killing people with an average age well above 75.
I don't think governments will pursue a lock down of the general population when the 5G are up and running, they probbly should though. Tis amazing how so few can control the worlds population.
The vaccine being developed should be another cause for concern, people should properly research these instead of trusting their local manchurian doctor.
Is 5g being rolled out to kill us or control us?
Is it a vaccine or a microchip they are going to give us?
Is it being done by the Illuminati or by the Jews?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 01, 2020, 10:18:17 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 01, 2020, 10:14:44 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 01, 2020, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 11:53:21 PM
98.2% survival rate for Covid 19.

Similar to the common flu, meanwhile 5G masks are being erected worldwide these will kill the final covid victims fatality number squared. The fatalities from this will be a mix of the population young, middle age and the old unlike this covid 19 which is killing people with an average age well above 75.
I don't think governments will pursue a lock down of the general population when the 5G are up and running, they probbly should though. Tis amazing how so few can control the worlds population.
The vaccine being developed should be another cause for concern, people should properly research these instead of trusting their local manchurian doctor.
Is 5g being rolled out to kill us or control us?
Is it a vaccine or a microchip they are going to give us?
Is it being done by the Illuminati or by the Jews?

Does this mean that you won't have to sanitise your 5G phone, but you can use it to sterlise door handles etc?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 01, 2020, 10:31:42 AM
Jesus Christ, 5G part of the conversation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 01, 2020, 10:36:26 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 01, 2020, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 11:53:21 PM
98.2% survival rate for Covid 19.

Similar to the common flu, meanwhile 5G masks are being erected worldwide these will kill the final covid victims fatality number squared. The fatalities from this will be a mix of the population young, middle age and the old unlike this covid 19 which is killing people with an average age well above 75.
I don't think governments will pursue a lock down of the general population when the 5G are up and running, they probbly should though. Tis amazing how so few can control the worlds population.
The vaccine being developed should be another cause for concern, people should properly research these instead of trusting their local manchurian doctor.

Clown.
This is what a world looks like without a Vaccine for this virus. Imagine a world without Vaccines full stop. You're stupidity knows no bounds.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 01, 2020, 10:42:43 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 01, 2020, 10:36:26 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 01, 2020, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 11:53:21 PM
98.2% survival rate for Covid 19.

Similar to the common flu, meanwhile 5G masks are being erected worldwide these will kill the final covid victims fatality number squared. The fatalities from this will be a mix of the population young, middle age and the old unlike this covid 19 which is killing people with an average age well above 75.
I don't think governments will pursue a lock down of the general population when the 5G are up and running, they probbly should though. Tis amazing how so few can control the worlds population.
The vaccine being developed should be another cause for concern, people should properly research these instead of trusting their local manchurian doctor.

Clown.
This is what a world looks like without a Vaccine for this virus. Imagine a world without Vaccines full stop. You're stupidity knows no bounds.

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on April 01, 2020, 10:49:02 AM
I'm worried about the 5G masks now. How do I get one?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 01, 2020, 10:54:34 AM
Quote from: gallsman on April 01, 2020, 10:42:43 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 01, 2020, 10:36:26 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 01, 2020, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 11:53:21 PM
98.2% survival rate for Covid 19.

Similar to the common flu, meanwhile 5G masks are being erected worldwide these will kill the final covid victims fatality number squared. The fatalities from this will be a mix of the population young, middle age and the old unlike this covid 19 which is killing people with an average age well above 75.
I don't think governments will pursue a lock down of the general population when the 5G are up and running, they probbly should though. Tis amazing how so few can control the worlds population.
The vaccine being developed should be another cause for concern, people should properly research these instead of trusting their local manchurian doctor.

Clown.
This is what a world looks like without a Vaccine for this virus. Imagine a world without Vaccines full stop. You're stupidity knows no bounds.

;D ;D ;D

I was going to say "you're a stupid ****" then dialled it down. Wish I'd stuck with the original, cause he is a stupid ****.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 01, 2020, 10:56:49 AM
Quote from: gallsman on April 01, 2020, 10:42:43 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 01, 2020, 10:36:26 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 01, 2020, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 11:53:21 PM
98.2% survival rate for Covid 19.

Similar to the common flu, meanwhile 5G masks are being erected worldwide these will kill the final covid victims fatality number squared. The fatalities from this will be a mix of the population young, middle age and the old unlike this covid 19 which is killing people with an average age well above 75.
I don't think governments will pursue a lock down of the general population when the 5G are up and running, they probbly should though. Tis amazing how so few can control the worlds population.
The vaccine being developed should be another cause for concern, people should properly research these instead of trusting their local manchurian doctor.

Clown.
This is what a world looks like without a Vaccine for this virus. Imagine a world without Vaccines full stop. You're stupidity knows no bounds.

;D ;D ;D

Thats says it all about trailer trash, I'm not going to call you stupid though, will leave that to others.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 01, 2020, 10:59:03 AM
Quote from: ONeill on April 01, 2020, 10:49:02 AM
I'm worried about the 5G masks now. How do I get one?

Bannside doing a 2 for 1 offer. PM him. Certified 5G.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 01, 2020, 11:10:10 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 01, 2020, 10:56:49 AM
Quote from: gallsman on April 01, 2020, 10:42:43 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 01, 2020, 10:36:26 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 01, 2020, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 11:53:21 PM
98.2% survival rate for Covid 19.

Similar to the common flu, meanwhile 5G masks are being erected worldwide these will kill the final covid victims fatality number squared. The fatalities from this will be a mix of the population young, middle age and the old unlike this covid 19 which is killing people with an average age well above 75.
I don't think governments will pursue a lock down of the general population when the 5G are up and running, they probbly should though. Tis amazing how so few can control the worlds population.
The vaccine being developed should be another cause for concern, people should properly research these instead of trusting their local manchurian doctor.

Clown.
This is what a world looks like without a Vaccine for this virus. Imagine a world without Vaccines full stop. You're stupidity knows no bounds.

;D ;D ;D

Thats says it all about trailer trash, I'm not going to call you stupid though, will leave that to others.

Mixing up you're and your on an internet forum doesn't make you stupid. Claiming that 5g and Vaccines are more dangerous than Covid-19 does though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Denn Forever on April 01, 2020, 11:15:39 AM
In the province where the pandemic started and was eradicated. , a new case has been reported.  it was a person who had returned from Europe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 01, 2020, 11:30:27 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 01, 2020, 10:14:44 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 01, 2020, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 31, 2020, 11:53:21 PM
98.2% survival rate for Covid 19.

Similar to the common flu, meanwhile 5G masks are being erected worldwide these will kill the final covid victims fatality number squared. The fatalities from this will be a mix of the population young, middle age and the old unlike this covid 19 which is killing people with an average age well above 75.
I don't think governments will pursue a lock down of the general population when the 5G are up and running, they probbly should though. Tis amazing how so few can control the worlds population.
The vaccine being developed should be another cause for concern, people should properly research these instead of trusting their local manchurian doctor.
Is 5g being rolled out to kill us or control us?
Is it a vaccine or a microchip they are going to give us?
Is it being done by the Illuminati or by the Jews?

5g is not rolled out to kill us, perhaps indirectly it will control us not unlike 4g or previous versions.
It's a vaccine not a mircochip, some vaccines do contain harmful materials.
Last part of question does not warrant an answer.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 11:33:03 AM
It's bad when even Trump is coy on the UK approach of herd immunity;

"well you know it's a concept, it's a concept- if you don't mind death."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 01, 2020, 11:42:21 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 11:33:03 AM
It's bad when even Trump is coy on the UK approach of herd immunity;

"well you know it's a concept, it's a concept- if you don't mind death."

In fairness this is one of his better quotes.
Is Sweden continuing with Herd immunity? The elderley and vulnarable are on lockdown but schools etc are still open? Also all decisions being amde by scientists with no political intervention?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 01, 2020, 11:48:38 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 01, 2020, 11:42:21 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 11:33:03 AM
It's bad when even Trump is coy on the UK approach of herd immunity;

"well you know it's a concept, it's a concept- if you don't mind death."

In fairness this is one of his better quotes.
Is Sweden continuing with Herd immunity? The elderley and vulnarable are on lockdown but schools etc are still open? Also all decisions being amde by scientists with no political intervention?

Swedish sick pay is 80% for 2 weeks without a doctors note. That in itself would be a tremendous help to their state. I read an article recently and it basically said the Swedes were weak, they take sick for a headache.

The same article said a lot of the Swedish population lives alone anyway, kids tend to move out earlier and again will essentially be in isolation the vast majority of their time anyway. Whereas say Northern Italy, kids tend to live with their grandparents and we've unfortunately seen the mess that has caused.

Population of about 10 million, they have had deaths of course but not even to our levels in Ireland (all Ireland). They look to be backing their people to do the right thing with an already decent sick pay level in place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 01, 2020, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on April 01, 2020, 11:15:39 AM
In the province where the pandemic started and was eradicated. , a new case has been reported.  it was a person who had returned from Europe.

It will be the same all over and the reason there might be cycles of illness and social distancing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on April 01, 2020, 12:44:02 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on March 31, 2020, 10:43:41 PM
Apparently a load of college students who lost weekend jobs got the €350 today. Despite their average weekly incomes being well under €200! Obviously the whole thing was rushed through but there's going to be a huge bill for the taxpayer to repay in coming years.  ::)

It's utterly ridiculous. Yet nobody can call it out as they'd be slaughtered by the lefties. The €350 needs to be scaled back, but Shinners and PBP won't allow it. But people getting more money for doing nothing than they were for working is exactly the type who votes SF/PBP down here.

The 70% subsidy scheme is more thought out, sensible and fair.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 01:08:12 PM
Easy to amend it to €350 or whatever your income was previously whichever is lower?
SF/PBP haven't the numbers to stop anything.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 01, 2020, 01:31:11 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 01, 2020, 10:31:42 AM
Jesus Christ, 5G part of the conversation.

I saw John Waters on a webcast with Gemma O'Doherty.  He did make the point that it is no coincidence that the Spanish Flu kicked off after Marconi started Radio Transmissions and now 5G has kicked off Corona.   It's to do with "electrifying" the atmosphere apparently.

The argument is rock solid because if you disagree with it, it is purely because the fluoride in our water supply has made you docile.  (and those enlightened know really why there is fluoride in the water).

/Jim.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 01:34:52 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on April 01, 2020, 01:31:11 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 01, 2020, 10:31:42 AM
Jesus Christ, 5G part of the conversation.

I saw John Waters on a webcast with Gemma O'Doherty.  He did make the point that it is no coincidence that the Spanish Flu kicked off after Marconi started Radio Transmissions and now 5G has kicked off Corona.   It's to do with "electrifying" the atmosphere apparently.

/Jim.

Nikola Tesla is to blame.  ;D

HAARP.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 01, 2020, 01:37:39 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 01, 2020, 12:44:02 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on March 31, 2020, 10:43:41 PM
Apparently a load of college students who lost weekend jobs got the €350 today. Despite their average weekly incomes being well under €200! Obviously the whole thing was rushed through but there's going to be a huge bill for the taxpayer to repay in coming years.  ::)

It's utterly ridiculous. Yet nobody can call it out as they'd be slaughtered by the lefties. The €350 needs to be scaled back, but Shinners and PBP won't allow it. But people getting more money for doing nothing than they were for working is exactly the type who votes SF/PBP down here.

The 70% subsidy scheme is more thought out, sensible and fair.

Yes, everywhere a blueshirt looks he sees the Shinners at work. Tell me how have the Shinners and PBP stopped this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 02:42:37 PM
UK posting 563 deaths in the last 24 hours

30 in Norn Iron in total.

Shits getting real
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 01, 2020, 02:48:30 PM
Going to get a lot worse before it gets better too :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on April 01, 2020, 02:52:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 02:42:37 PM
UK posting 563 deaths in the last 24 hours, 30 in Norn Iron.

Shits getting real

that reads 30 deaths here in the last 24 hours which isn't the case.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on April 01, 2020, 02:53:00 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 01, 2020, 12:44:02 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on March 31, 2020, 10:43:41 PM
Apparently a load of college students who lost weekend jobs got the €350 today. Despite their average weekly incomes being well under €200! Obviously the whole thing was rushed through but there's going to be a huge bill for the taxpayer to repay in coming years.  ::)

It's utterly ridiculous. Yet nobody can call it out as they'd be slaughtered by the lefties. The €350 needs to be scaled back, but Shinners and PBP won't allow it. But people getting more money for doing nothing than they were for working is exactly the type who votes SF/PBP down here.

The 70% subsidy scheme is more thought out, sensible and fair.
Won't somebody please think of the landlords  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on April 01, 2020, 02:53:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 02:42:37 PM
UK posting 563 deaths in the last 24 hours, 30 in Norn Iron.

Shits getting real

30 not the overall NI figure Jonny? Still grim reading UK wide
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on April 01, 2020, 03:12:36 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 01, 2020, 02:53:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 02:42:37 PM
UK posting 563 deaths in the last 24 hours, 30 in Norn Iron.

Shits getting real

30 not the overall NI figure Jonny? Still grim reading UK wide

Yes think there were 2 NI deaths in last 24 hours.  Confirmed cases up by 103 (20-odd percent). 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 01, 2020, 03:20:15 PM
Has testing increased in NI this week or are the number of cases just growing rapidly?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 01, 2020, 03:23:57 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 01, 2020, 02:53:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 02:42:37 PM
UK posting 563 deaths in the last 24 hours, 30 in Norn Iron.

Shits getting real

30 not the overall NI figure Jonny? Still grim reading UK wide

NI not as badly affected as the mother island. But still forecast for a possible total of 3000 death (https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0401/1127826-model-study-suggests-n-ireland-could-reach-3-000-deaths/)s (i.e. equal to troubles).

The UK will pass Italy for daily deaths by this weekend, as the US already has.

Quote from: imtommygunn on April 01, 2020, 03:20:15 PM
Has testing increased in NI this week or are the number of cases just growing rapidly?

I think testing has increased, although I'm not sure where these stats are.
Whereas testing is declining in the south owing to lack of reagents.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 01, 2020, 03:27:45 PM
There is some nonsense about Gove and reagents doing the rounds. Up to his lies as usual.

Yeah I thought testing had ramped up although like yourself no stats to back that up.

This is bad and we are not even close to as impacted as some other places :( (Hopefully that continues but may not).

I would still rank cheltenham going ahead as one of the stupidest decisions ever made.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 03:32:02 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 01, 2020, 02:52:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 02:42:37 PM
UK posting 563 deaths in the last 24 hours, 30 in Norn Iron.

Shits getting real

that reads 30 deaths here in the last 24 hours which isn't the case.

Poor Grammar, apologies.

But we're OK, Robin Swann is praying to God that we've enough ventilators come our peak!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 01, 2020, 03:40:26 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 02:42:37 PM
UK posting 563 deaths in the last 24 hours

30 in Norn Iron in total.

Shits getting real

With UK testing being so abysmally below where it needs to be - the number of deaths is the only tracker of where we are that is accurate.

We don't know when peak infection will happen - it might already have happened - deaths lag that by 3-4 weeks.

If restrictions still aren't tight enough (or people still aren't paying enough heed) - it'll be a nightmare by the time we realise it and a disaster by the time the reaction to that nightmare takes effect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on April 01, 2020, 03:53:03 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 01, 2020, 03:27:45 PM
There is some nonsense about Gove and reagents doing the rounds. Up to his lies as usual.

Yeah I thought testing had ramped up although like yourself no stats to back that up.

This is bad and we are not even close to as impacted as some other places :( (Hopefully that continues but may not).

I would still rank cheltenham going ahead as one of the stupidest decisions ever made.

Absolute madness that this event went ahead . Know of 2 cases from Cheltenham in the Derry area. A GP (who'd already been to Italy skiiing, was told to self-isolate). Post isolation he took himself off to Cheltenham, and low and behold tested positive upon his return. Has since fully recovered. But we're talking about a health care professional in contact with the most vulnerable of folk, a complete binlid. The 2nd case, a 50 something woman, currently on a ventilator in Altnagelvin. Stay safe all
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2020, 04:18:41 PM
What's the rate of deaths in the free state currently? And when will the peak be?

We are looking at between the 6th and 20th April (according to the top man in the north) though with him not being a GAA boarder is hard to agree with him
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
I know ye Nordies are a biteen behind the times and don't realise the "free state" was abolished on 31st December 1937.
Meanwhile in Ireland/RoI/26 Counties/ the South(sic) I saw the deaths figure is around 2% of the Positives figure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2020, 04:33:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
I know ye Nordies are a biteen behind the times and don't realise the "free state" was abolished on 31st December 1937.
Meanwhile in Ireland/RoI/26 Counties/ the South(sic) I saw the deaths figure is around 2% of the Positives figure.

I'll continue with the free state, some gobshites on here keep using shite talk, I'll throw some of it back at yas  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 04:47:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
I know ye Nordies are a biteen behind the times and don't realise the "free state" was abolished on 31st December 1937.
Meanwhile in Ireland/RoI/26 Counties/ the South(sic) I saw the deaths figure is around 2% of the Positives figure.

71 deaths to date in the south...

Don't want to tempt fate but as a percentage of the population that's way better than NI but then the community spread thing happened earlier in the south and the reactions thereafter were quicker and more decisive.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 01, 2020, 05:18:34 PM
We're the occupied 6 and you're the free state - that's how it works...

Yeah south managed it a lot better. They reckon 3k here on "wave 1". Jesus.

I actually think the north will have benefited from flybe couping and the fact that there were 25% less flights for a good bit during this. Will never know whether that holds or not mind you but it should at least have lessened traffic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 05:21:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2020, 04:33:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
I know ye Nordies are a biteen behind the times and don't realise the "free state" was abolished on 31st December 1937.
Meanwhile in Ireland/RoI/26 Counties/ the South(sic) I saw the deaths figure is around 2% of the Positives figure.

I'll continue with the free state, some gobshites on here keep using shite talk, I'll throw some of it back at yas  ;)
I suppose you're at least  247 years ahead of th'others.
Johnny ye lost ground at the start alright due to the DUPes having to play at Uber Britishness again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wee Roddy on April 01, 2020, 05:37:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 01, 2020, 05:18:34 PM
We're the occupied 6 and you're the free state - that's how it works...

Yeah south managed it a lot better. They reckon 3k here on "wave 1". Jesus.

I actually think the north will have benefited from flybe couping and the fact that there were 25% less flights for a good bit during this. Will never know whether that holds or not mind you but it should at least have lessened traffic.

I actually think the north will benefit from the GAA's advice early doors. In rural areas the social distancing was practised as soon as pitches were closed 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 01, 2020, 05:40:34 PM
I see the fukkin dopey media are going on about green shoots because of the number of cases is plateauing. Its plateauing because your saturated on testing ye dopey kunts.

Govt propaganda has number of tests at around 8,000 per day. Which means its probably anywhere around 7,000-8,000 per day... I'd be cynical and suggest nearer the former than latter -with some supporting evidence[1][2].

Meanwhile there were 4,324 new cases as of today. That is far too high a percentage of tested people returning positive to have any confidence whatsoever in your testing regime capturing enough to be reflective of the wider population. It probably needs to be under 10% returning positive.


[1]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-testing-uk-daily-target-nhs-cases-latest-a9434496.html
[2]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-uk-testing-cases-deaths-who-germany-update-a9437126.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 01, 2020, 05:50:25 PM
Quote from: Wee Roddy on April 01, 2020, 05:37:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 01, 2020, 05:18:34 PM
We're the occupied 6 and you're the free state - that's how it works...

Yeah south managed it a lot better. They reckon 3k here on "wave 1". Jesus.

I actually think the north will have benefited from flybe couping and the fact that there were 25% less flights for a good bit during this. Will never know whether that holds or not mind you but it should at least have lessened traffic.

I actually think the north will benefit from the GAA's advice early doors. In rural areas the social distancing was practised as soon as pitches were closed

yeah churches shut pretty early too which was a good thing. Dunno how far reaching that was mind you in terms of if it was more than the catholic church.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 05:56:22 PM
Quote from: Wee Roddy on April 01, 2020, 05:37:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 01, 2020, 05:18:34 PM
We're the occupied 6 and you're the free state - that's how it works...

Yeah south managed it a lot better. They reckon 3k here on "wave 1". Jesus.

I actually think the north will have benefited from flybe couping and the fact that there were 25% less flights for a good bit during this. Will never know whether that holds or not mind you but it should at least have lessened traffic.

I actually think the north will benefit from the GAA's advice early doors. In rural areas the social distancing was practised as soon as pitches were closed

I'd agree with that 100%.
That put the shitters up a lot of parents when all the clubs whatsapp groups banned all training sessions, closed the premises coupled with the fact that schools were to close for a few days for St Patricks, they just stayed shut as parents weren't sending their kids to them anyway well before the UK/Assembly instructions to do so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2020, 06:05:45 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 05:56:22 PM
Quote from: Wee Roddy on April 01, 2020, 05:37:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 01, 2020, 05:18:34 PM
We're the occupied 6 and you're the free state - that's how it works...

Yeah south managed it a lot better. They reckon 3k here on "wave 1". Jesus.

I actually think the north will have benefited from flybe couping and the fact that there were 25% less flights for a good bit during this. Will never know whether that holds or not mind you but it should at least have lessened traffic.

I actually think the north will benefit from the GAA's advice early doors. In rural areas the social distancing was practised as soon as pitches were closed

I'd agree with that 100%.
That put the shitters up a lot of parents when all the clubs whatsapp groups banned all training sessions, closed the premises coupled with the fact that schools were to close for a few days for St Patricks, they just stayed shut as parents weren't sending their kids to them anyway well before the UK/Assembly instructions to do so.

My parents are into their fourth week of isolation! Problem today was my dad needed an urgent medical check up at hospital! He went crazy leaving house!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 01, 2020, 07:11:42 PM
Without a doubt the GAA being quick off the mark will have saved countless lies. In South Derry very few, if any listened to Bojo and co and went with the Dublin/WHO approach.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: pbat on April 01, 2020, 07:17:31 PM
I know you cant always have negative news but the media need to be careful with the Green Shoots type stuff, if people start believing this is beat and with the weather picking heading for Easter they may start to become complacent. Need to really have a handle on this before anything can be relaxed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on April 01, 2020, 08:00:56 PM
560 odd deaths today i dont think too many be thinking its beat

But i concur, any sort of levelling off or positive stats from eg Italy (with "only" 750 odd today) and people will be itchin to get back to normal
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 01, 2020, 08:13:51 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 01, 2020, 08:00:56 PM
560 odd deaths today i dont think too many be thinking its beat

But i concur, any sort of levelling off or positive stats from eg Italy (with "only" 750 odd today) and people will be itchin to get back to normal

Italy has levelled off to some extent, with someone only dying every 3 or 4 seconds. Bit to go still!
New York State has 2200+ dead, and is not anywhere near levelled off.

"Normal" is some distance away.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 01, 2020, 08:14:11 PM
It's barely started so anyone thinking it's beat is mad.  The uk in particular has no idea where it stands with it's testing strategy and with "the south" starting to fall behind with tests too(I know they're doing what they can) they have not got an accurate depiction either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 01, 2020, 09:34:59 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 01, 2020, 07:11:42 PM
Without a doubt the GAA being quick off the mark will have saved countless lies. In South Derry very few, if any listened to Bojo and co and went with the Dublin/WHO approach.
"How many of the dead are catholic and how many are protestant" is a tiresome question that was repeated too often during the troubles, but it will be interesting to see the effect the two different approaches will have. If unionists were so determined to prove their Britishness that they wanted to ignore WHO warnings...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 01, 2020, 09:45:57 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 01, 2020, 09:34:59 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 01, 2020, 07:11:42 PM
Without a doubt the GAA being quick off the mark will have saved countless lies. In South Derry very few, if any listened to Bojo and co and went with the Dublin/WHO approach.
"How many of the dead are catholic and how many are protestant" is a tiresome question that was repeated too often during the troubles, but it will be interesting to see the effect the two different approaches will have. If unionists were so determined to prove their Britishness that they wanted to ignore WHO warnings...

Two thirds of OAPs are unionists, and that will be most of the deaths anyway, which may confuse the analysis.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Downtothewire on April 01, 2020, 09:56:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
I know ye Nordies are a biteen behind the times and don't realise the "free state" was abolished on 31st December 1937.
Meanwhile in Ireland/RoI/26 Counties/ the South(sic) I saw the deaths figure is around 2% of the Positives figure.

Well from 31st December 1937 up to now you free staters have done f**k all for us
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 01, 2020, 10:33:08 PM
HSE must be really struggling. We had fella at work who we sent home 12 days ago as he had a cough. Took 6 days for him to get a test, 6 more to get results that he was positive. 2 days after result he can come back to work (14 days 1st symptoms) and then contact tracing at work too late as the results were too late. We getting into a really messy place now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2020, 10:37:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2020, 09:45:57 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 01, 2020, 09:34:59 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 01, 2020, 07:11:42 PM
Without a doubt the GAA being quick off the mark will have saved countless lies. In South Derry very few, if any listened to Bojo and co and went with the Dublin/WHO approach.
"How many of the dead are catholic and how many are protestant" is a tiresome question that was repeated too often during the troubles, but it will be interesting to see the effect the two different approaches will have. If unionists were so determined to prove their Britishness that they wanted to ignore WHO warnings...

Two thirds of OAPs are unionists, and that will be most of the deaths anyway, which may confuse the analysis.

How many catholics have passed away in Italy?

This is so daft, plastic paddy, you'll have to do better
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on April 01, 2020, 10:50:06 PM
Dafuq is this shit going on in the Whitehouse??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 01, 2020, 10:52:58 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 01, 2020, 10:50:06 PM
Dafuq is this shit going on in the Whitehouse??

Don't be watching that rubbish. Some networks have even stopped carrying it live because of the potential for misinformation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 01, 2020, 11:22:24 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 01, 2020, 10:50:06 PM
Dafuq is this shit going on in the Whitehouse??
The usual car crash TV viewing I presume?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 11:36:09 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on April 01, 2020, 09:56:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
I know ye Nordies are a biteen behind the times and don't realise the "free state" was abolished on 31st December 1937.
Meanwhile in Ireland/RoI/26 Counties/ the South(sic) I saw the deaths figure is around 2% of the Positives figure.

Well from 31st December 1937 up to now you free staters have done f**k all for us
About the same as ye whingy whiny fckrs did for us😉
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2020, 11:38:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 11:36:09 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on April 01, 2020, 09:56:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
I know ye Nordies are a biteen behind the times and don't realise the "free state" was abolished on 31st December 1937.
Meanwhile in Ireland/RoI/26 Counties/ the South(sic) I saw the deaths figure is around 2% of the Positives figure.

Well from 31st December 1937 up to now you free staters have done f**k all for us
About the same as ye whingy whiny fckrs did for us😉

Aye, bit of an embarrassment we were when ya deserted the north, I doubt yous would actually vote for a UI
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on April 01, 2020, 11:53:38 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on April 01, 2020, 11:51:04 PM
Removed at Dougal's request . Already the GB approach is coming in for criticism even from the Daily Telegraph and yet Arlene decided to blindly follow what they did. I'm listening to the advice I'm getting has been the standard response to this. Now where did I hear that before?

Wow. Just f**king wow.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 02, 2020, 12:18:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2020, 11:38:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 11:36:09 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on April 01, 2020, 09:56:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
I know ye Nordies are a biteen behind the times and don't realise the "free state" was abolished on 31st December 1937.
Meanwhile in Ireland/RoI/26 Counties/ the South(sic) I saw the deaths figure is around 2% of the Positives figure.

Well from 31st December 1937 up to now you free staters have done f**k all for us
About the same as ye whingy whiny fckrs did for us😉

Aye, bit of an embarrassment we were when ya deserted the north, I doubt yous would actually vote for a UI
Says the buck who said he wouldn't vote for a UI if it was going to cost him money ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 12:40:11 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 02, 2020, 12:18:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2020, 11:38:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 11:36:09 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on April 01, 2020, 09:56:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
I know ye Nordies are a biteen behind the times and don't realise the "free state" was abolished on 31st December 1937.
Meanwhile in Ireland/RoI/26 Counties/ the South(sic) I saw the deaths figure is around 2% of the Positives figure.

Well from 31st December 1937 up to now you free staters have done f**k all for us
About the same as ye whingy whiny fckrs did for us😉

Aye, bit of an embarrassment we were when ya deserted the north, I doubt yous would actually vote for a UI
Says the buck who said he wouldn't vote for a UI if it was going to cost him money ;)

Put up the post. I said I'd vote for it every time, financially I'd be on a pigs back, emotionally it's the right thing to do. But say what you want, whatever makes you feel good about you're own guilt
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on April 02, 2020, 12:56:17 AM
I suppose talking about Coronavirus was going to get a bit boring eventually   ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 02, 2020, 01:15:36 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on April 02, 2020, 12:56:17 AM
I suppose talking about Coronavirus was going to get a bit boring eventually   ;D

too many angry nordies on this board for that, shouting at their keyboards  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on April 02, 2020, 01:17:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2020, 11:38:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 11:36:09 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on April 01, 2020, 09:56:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
I know ye Nordies are a biteen behind the times and don't realise the "free state" was abolished on 31st December 1937.
Meanwhile in Ireland/RoI/26 Counties/ the South(sic) I saw the deaths figure is around 2% of the Positives figure.

Well from 31st December 1937 up to now you free staters have done f**k all for us
About the same as ye whingy whiny fckrs did for us😉

Aye, bit of an embarrassment we were when ya deserted the north, I doubt yous would actually vote for a UI

How can you have such a partitionist mindset whilst still claiming to be a nationalist. And who the f uk is "yous " , men that spent their lives in portlaois gaol , men who died on active service , men who fought in the tan war , men who died in civil war , men who brought the war to the brits ? You're not an Irish republican you don't fool me , you're just a chip on the shoulder guy who never threw a rock in anger . 

I won't respond to your inane drivel  predictable response of how growing up in troubled Belfast was all bad and free staters wouldn't have a clue blah blah , obvious stoop is obvious , way and shite. 

Apologies for derailment of thread , had to respond to this poster who is constantly getting in digs about above
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: red hander on April 02, 2020, 02:42:07 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 03:32:02 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 01, 2020, 02:52:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 02:42:37 PM
UK posting 563 deaths in the last 24 hours, 30 in Norn Iron.

Shits getting real

that reads 30 deaths here in the last 24 hours which isn't the case.

Poor Grammar, apologies.

But we're OK, Robin Swann is praying to God that we've enough ventilators come our peak!

f**king 2020 and the person supposedly in charge is praying to imaginary person in the sky... sack these f**king nutjob fundamentalist pricks now and put someone with a brain in charge
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dougal Maguire on April 02, 2020, 02:56:06 AM
While I appreciate that the wording in my earlier comment, which I've now removed and would respectfully asked those who quoted it to do the same please,  was insensitive and inappropriate, it was written in the heat of the moment. However  the fact is that the I'm absolutely livid that the DUP managed to turn the fight against a deadly disease into a green/orange issue by deciding not to adopt an all island approach and instead follow the obviously flawed UK line. Even Jamie Bryson was arguing for an all island approach. I'm just really angry that these people are prepared to play party politics with people's lives.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 02, 2020, 07:10:50 AM
Quote from: red hander on April 02, 2020, 02:42:07 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 03:32:02 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 01, 2020, 02:52:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 02:42:37 PM
UK posting 563 deaths in the last 24 hours, 30 in Norn Iron.

Shits getting real

that reads 30 deaths here in the last 24 hours which isn't the case.

Poor Grammar, apologies.

But we're OK, Robin Swann is praying to God that we've enough ventilators come our peak!

f**king 2020 and the person supposedly in charge is praying to imaginary person in the sky... sack these f**king nutjob fundamentalist pricks now and put someone with a brain in charge

Was it just not a turn of phrase though? One we all use frequently?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on April 02, 2020, 08:00:20 AM
To all the ones turning this thread into a bitching match:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A4OI9H6Zrv0 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A4OI9H6Zrv0)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 02, 2020, 08:18:42 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 02, 2020, 07:10:50 AM
Quote from: red hander on April 02, 2020, 02:42:07 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 03:32:02 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 01, 2020, 02:52:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 02:42:37 PM
UK posting 563 deaths in the last 24 hours, 30 in Norn Iron.

Shits getting real

that reads 30 deaths here in the last 24 hours which isn't the case.

Poor Grammar, apologies.

But we're OK, Robin Swann is praying to God that we've enough ventilators come our peak!

f**king 2020 and the person supposedly in charge is praying to imaginary person in the sky... sack these f**king nutjob fundamentalist pricks now and put someone with a brain in charge

Was it just not a turn of phrase though? One we all use frequently?

And we use it when all is lost or we haven't a puff what's going on.

You don't expect a minister in charge of procuring ventilators to come off with that. He either has the dates and times for deliveries or he doesn't and it seems like he doesn't and that's a WTF moment for me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 02, 2020, 08:48:15 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 02, 2020, 08:18:42 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 02, 2020, 07:10:50 AM
Quote from: red hander on April 02, 2020, 02:42:07 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 03:32:02 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 01, 2020, 02:52:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 02:42:37 PM
UK posting 563 deaths in the last 24 hours, 30 in Norn Iron.

Shits getting real

that reads 30 deaths here in the last 24 hours which isn't the case.

Poor Grammar, apologies.

But we're OK, Robin Swann is praying to God that we've enough ventilators come our peak!

f**king 2020 and the person supposedly in charge is praying to imaginary person in the sky... sack these f**king nutjob fundamentalist pricks now and put someone with a brain in charge

Was it just not a turn of phrase though? One we all use frequently?

And we use it when all is lost or we haven't a puff what's going on.

You don't expect a minister in charge of procuring ventilators to come off with that. He either has the dates and times for deliveries or he doesn't and it seems like he doesn't and that's a WTF moment for me.
I would say any dates and times are well caveated due to manufacturing and delivery restrictions so the turn of phrase was not out of place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on April 02, 2020, 09:04:29 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 02, 2020, 08:48:15 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 02, 2020, 08:18:42 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 02, 2020, 07:10:50 AM
Quote from: red hander on April 02, 2020, 02:42:07 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 03:32:02 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 01, 2020, 02:52:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 01, 2020, 02:42:37 PM
UK posting 563 deaths in the last 24 hours, 30 in Norn Iron.

Shits getting real

that reads 30 deaths here in the last 24 hours which isn't the case.

Poor Grammar, apologies.

But we're OK, Robin Swann is praying to God that we've enough ventilators come our peak!

f**king 2020 and the person supposedly in charge is praying to imaginary person in the sky... sack these f**king nutjob fundamentalist pricks now and put someone with a brain in charge

Was it just not a turn of phrase though? One we all use frequently?

And we use it when all is lost or we haven't a puff what's going on.

You don't expect a minister in charge of procuring ventilators to come off with that. He either has the dates and times for deliveries or he doesn't and it seems like he doesn't and that's a WTF moment for me.
I would say any dates and times are well caveated due to manufacturing and delivery restrictions so the turn of phrase was not out of place.

Total nonsense.

Then say, "Dates and times are well caveated due to manufacturing and delivery restrictions, but we are working as hard as we can to get them here".  Not the puff he came out with.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 09:42:57 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 02, 2020, 01:17:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2020, 11:38:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 11:36:09 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on April 01, 2020, 09:56:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
I know ye Nordies are a biteen behind the times and don't realise the "free state" was abolished on 31st December 1937.
Meanwhile in Ireland/RoI/26 Counties/ the South(sic) I saw the deaths figure is around 2% of the Positives figure.

Well from 31st December 1937 up to now you free staters have done f**k all for us
About the same as ye whingy whiny fckrs did for us😉

Aye, bit of an embarrassment we were when ya deserted the north, I doubt yous would actually vote for a UI

How can you have such a partitionist mindset whilst still claiming to be a nationalist. And who the f uk is "yous " , men that spent their lives in portlaois gaol , men who died on active service , men who fought in the tan war , men who died in civil war , men who brought the war to the brits ? You're not an Irish republican you don't fool me , you're just a chip on the shoulder guy who never threw a rock in anger . 

I won't respond to your inane drivel  predictable response of how growing up in troubled Belfast was all bad and free staters wouldn't have a clue blah blah , obvious stoop is obvious , way and shite. 

Apologies for derailment of thread , had to respond to this poster who is constantly getting in digs about above

No I responded to the posters who constantly get digs in on ones living in the north of the island, now if you couldn't see that then you're blind.  ;)

You free staters need to calm down
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on April 02, 2020, 10:20:31 AM
Slovakia reported its first death with Covid-19 yesterday.
I believe that leaves Latvia and Liechtenstein as the only countries in Europe who have not recorded a death with Covid-19.

Meanwhile in the US, Hawaii reported its first death, leaving Wyoming as the only US state who have not recorded a death with Covid-19
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 02, 2020, 10:27:22 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 02, 2020, 01:15:36 AM
Quote from: Solo_run on April 02, 2020, 12:56:17 AM
I suppose talking about Coronavirus was going to get a bit boring eventually   ;D

too many angry nordies on this board for that, shouting at their keyboards  ;)

Situation... SITUATION
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 02, 2020, 10:31:49 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/newton-emerson-stormont-must-agree-to-disagree-for-powersharing-to-survive-crisis-1.4218065

The UK government's plan for testing is set out clearly in the March 16th report from its advisers at Imperial College London, which caused the sudden switch in approach from mitigation to suppression.
The report's only reference to testing outside hospitals says: "As case numbers fall, it becomes more feasible to adopt intensive testing, contact tracing and quarantine measures akin to the strategies being employed in South Korea today."
In other words, it is too late for the UK to use testing on the way up the peak of the epidemic but it can suppress the peak with other measures then introduce testing on the way down.
Unsurprisingly, London is having trouble admitting this. Michael Gove, the deputy prime minister, was suspiciously evasive on the subject at a press conference on Tuesday. The apparent lack of urgency is creating mistrust in the UK and Ireland and causing a split at Stormont, where the DUP has accepted UK scientific advice and all other parties except Sinn Féin either concur or are observing collective responsibility.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on April 02, 2020, 10:59:54 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 02, 2020, 01:17:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 01, 2020, 11:38:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 11:36:09 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on April 01, 2020, 09:56:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2020, 04:28:27 PM
I know ye Nordies are a biteen behind the times and don't realise the "free state" was abolished on 31st December 1937.
Meanwhile in Ireland/RoI/26 Counties/ the South(sic) I saw the deaths figure is around 2% of the Positives figure.

Well from 31st December 1937 up to now you free staters have done f**k all for us
About the same as ye whingy whiny fckrs did for us😉

Aye, bit of an embarrassment we were when ya deserted the north, I doubt yous would actually vote for a UI

How can you have such a partitionist mindset whilst still claiming to be a nationalist. And who the f uk is "yous " , men that spent their lives in portlaois gaol , men who died on active service , men who fought in the tan war , men who died in civil war , men who brought the war to the brits ? You're not an Irish republican you don't fool me , you're just a chip on the shoulder guy who never threw a rock in anger . 

I won't respond to your inane drivel  predictable response of how growing up in troubled Belfast was all bad and free staters wouldn't have a clue blah blah , obvious stoop is obvious , way and shite. 

Apologies for derailment of thread , had to respond to this poster who is constantly getting in digs about above

How's about some posters stop referring to Northerners as nordies (not a far cry from the English calling us all paddies) and Northerners desist from calling the South the Free-State...a win win?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 02, 2020, 11:05:31 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 02, 2020, 10:31:49 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/newton-emerson-stormont-must-agree-to-disagree-for-powersharing-to-survive-crisis-1.4218065

The UK government's plan for testing is set out clearly in the March 16th report from its advisers at Imperial College London, which caused the sudden switch in approach from mitigation to suppression.
The report's only reference to testing outside hospitals says: "As case numbers fall, it becomes more feasible to adopt intensive testing, contact tracing and quarantine measures akin to the strategies being employed in South Korea today."
In other words, it is too late for the UK to use testing on the way up the peak of the epidemic but it can suppress the peak with other measures then introduce testing on the way down.
Unsurprisingly, London is having trouble admitting this. Michael Gove, the deputy prime minister, was suspiciously evasive on the subject at a press conference on Tuesday. The apparent lack of urgency is creating mistrust in the UK and Ireland and causing a split at Stormont, where the DUP has accepted UK scientific advice and all other parties except Sinn Féin either concur or are observing collective responsibility.

UK Deputy Chief Medical Officer Jonathan Van Tam on Peston last night more or less said the same thing.  Testing at this point in the UK is irrelevant as the virus has now escaped them and they're banking on people adhering to social distancing to bring the contamination rate down.
It's on the other side of the curve that they really want to be testing for immunity as much as whether you've got it or not which brings me back to Trumps quote on the UK policy where he couldn't even bring himself to say herd immunity.

Utter gobshites.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 12:22:12 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 02, 2020, 11:05:31 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 02, 2020, 10:31:49 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/newton-emerson-stormont-must-agree-to-disagree-for-powersharing-to-survive-crisis-1.4218065

The UK government's plan for testing is set out clearly in the March 16th report from its advisers at Imperial College London, which caused the sudden switch in approach from mitigation to suppression.
The report's only reference to testing outside hospitals says: "As case numbers fall, it becomes more feasible to adopt intensive testing, contact tracing and quarantine measures akin to the strategies being employed in South Korea today."
In other words, it is too late for the UK to use testing on the way up the peak of the epidemic but it can suppress the peak with other measures then introduce testing on the way down.
Unsurprisingly, London is having trouble admitting this. Michael Gove, the deputy prime minister, was suspiciously evasive on the subject at a press conference on Tuesday. The apparent lack of urgency is creating mistrust in the UK and Ireland and causing a split at Stormont, where the DUP has accepted UK scientific advice and all other parties except Sinn Féin either concur or are observing collective responsibility.

UK Deputy Chief Medical Officer Jonathan Van Tam on Peston last night more or less said the same thing.  Testing at this point in the UK is irrelevant as the virus has now escaped them and they're banking on people adhering to social distancing to bring the contamination rate down.
It's on the other side of the curve that they really want to be testing for immunity as much as whether you've got it or not which brings me back to Trumps quote on the UK policy where he couldn't even bring himself to say herd immunity.

Utter gobshites.

The virus has escaped them in London, but it shouldn't mean that testing and tracing might still not be possible in NI or Cornwall.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on April 02, 2020, 12:33:22 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 01, 2020, 11:53:38 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on April 01, 2020, 11:51:04 PM
Personally I hope the north has ten times more deaths than the south. Already the GB approach is coming in for criticism even from the Daily Telegraph and yet Arlene decided to blindly follow what they did. I'm listening to the advice I'm getting has been the standard response to this. Now where did I hear that before?

Wow. Just f**king wow.

Oh dear.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on April 02, 2020, 12:37:16 PM
Posted then deleted yes?

Classy move there, ive seen boys banned for less..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on April 02, 2020, 12:44:16 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 02, 2020, 12:37:16 PM
Posted then deleted yes?

Classy move there, ive seen boys banned for less..

Just a stupid, drunken post. We've all been there. I frequently buy tat off ebay late at night that I have absolutely no need for.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 02, 2020, 12:58:10 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/f3796baf-e4f0-4862-8887-d09c7f706553

Mike Ryan, executive director of the World Health Organization's health emergencies programme, has outlined four factors that might contribute to the differing mortality rates: who becomes infected, what stage the epidemic has reached in a country, how much testing a country is doing, and how well different healthcare systems are coping.

https://www.ft.com/content/f3796baf-e4f0-4862-8887-d09c7f706553

Professor Neil Ferguson, director of the MRC Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis at Imperial College London, said it was not yet clear how many "excess deaths" caused by coronavirus there would be in the UK. However, he said the proportion of Covid-19 victims who would have died anyway could be "as many as half or two-thirds".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 02, 2020, 01:01:33 PM

Here is something for muintir an Tuaisceart


   "In response to the economic threat posed by the coronavirus pandemic, the UK government last week unveiled a £330bn package of bailout loans alongside an extraordinary offer of wage subsidies. But the speed of the response has left banks, regulators and Treasury officials scrambling to find ways to get the money to the companies that need it most.
Have you seen a significant decrease in revenue? Have you had to close operations temporarily or permanently? Will you furlough employees? And if so, how much of your workforce? 

Dan Thomas, the FT's chief business correspondent, has been writing about how UK companies can access the government's Covid-19 bailout funds. Dan has also been covering how banks are helping struggling businesses and how non-bank lenders are responding to the crisis.

Dan is here to hear your stories and answer your questions about the loans being offered by banks under the Coronavirus Business Interruption Loan Scheme, or for bigger companies under the commercial paper programme. He can also help with the business rates programme or answer questions about what the government and banking industry are doing to address the issues left unresolved by the bailout package.

Ask your questions in the comments below. Dan will be dropping in regularly on Thursday, April 2, to answer them throughout the day."


https://www.ft.com/content/e8413fcc-d548-4a4c-835a-88039563be3e
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 02, 2020, 01:13:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 02, 2020, 12:58:10 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/f3796baf-e4f0-4862-8887-d09c7f706553

Professor Neil Ferguson, director of the MRC Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis at Imperial College London, said it was not yet clear how many "excess deaths" caused by coronavirus there would be in the UK. However, he said the proportion of Covid-19 victims who would have died anyway could be "as many as half or two-thirds".

BULLSHIT.

That is him and his ham fisted bunch of amateurs covering their own ass.


South Korea:
Population: 51.5m
Deaths: 169

UK
Population: 66.5m
Deaths: 2,352

Adjusted SK death total (to equate to UK population) would be ~218.

So, if the reaction had been as per South Korea (and lets not forget the clusterfuck they had with the churches being superspreaders to elderly), then we'd possibly have just 9% of the current death toll.



No surprise - more ineptitude from the academics that cannot grasp how to do quick and dirty sums when you don't have precise inputs for a detailed model.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on April 02, 2020, 01:24:14 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on April 02, 2020, 12:44:16 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 02, 2020, 12:37:16 PM
Posted then deleted yes?

Classy move there, ive seen boys banned for less..

Just a stupid, drunken post. We've all been there. I frequently buy tat off ebay late at night that I have absolutely no need for.

Yeah I once donated 200 to a lad doing a sponsored fast, by mistake after a couple. She went through me the next day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 02, 2020, 01:34:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 02, 2020, 12:58:10 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/f3796baf-e4f0-4862-8887-d09c7f706553

Mike Ryan, executive director of the World Health Organization's health emergencies programme, has outlined four factors that might contribute to the differing mortality rates: who becomes infected, what stage the epidemic has reached in a country, how much testing a country is doing, and how well different healthcare systems are coping.

https://www.ft.com/content/f3796baf-e4f0-4862-8887-d09c7f706553

Professor Neil Ferguson, director of the MRC Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis at Imperial College London, said it was not yet clear how many "excess deaths" caused by coronavirus there would be in the UK. However, he said the proportion of Covid-19 victims who would have died anyway could be "as many as half or two-thirds".
Everybody is going to die anyway .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 01:52:39 PM
Deaths per million

Italy                 218
Spain         214
Belgium            87
Netherlands   78
France           62
Switzerland   58
Iran                   38
UK                   35
   
Ireland             17
   
South Korea       3
China               2
Singapore   0.7
Taiwan            0.2
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 02, 2020, 02:37:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 02, 2020, 01:34:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 02, 2020, 12:58:10 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/f3796baf-e4f0-4862-8887-d09c7f706553

Mike Ryan, executive director of the World Health Organization's health emergencies programme, has outlined four factors that might contribute to the differing mortality rates: who becomes infected, what stage the epidemic has reached in a country, how much testing a country is doing, and how well different healthcare systems are coping.

https://www.ft.com/content/f3796baf-e4f0-4862-8887-d09c7f706553

Professor Neil Ferguson, director of the MRC Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis at Imperial College London, said it was not yet clear how many "excess deaths" caused by coronavirus there would be in the UK. However, he said the proportion of Covid-19 victims who would have died anyway could be "as many as half or two-thirds".
Everybody is going to die anyway .
Even the Dub steamroller
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 02, 2020, 02:41:42 PM
121 people have now died since the start of the outbreak of Coronavirus on the island of Ireland. WHO is considers changing guidance on wearing face masks..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 02, 2020, 02:49:39 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 02, 2020, 02:41:42 PMWHO is considers changing guidance on wearing face masks..

While everyone wearing face masks may help protect each individual - when hospital staff cannot get sufficient face masks to protect themselves I feel its better if they just keep guidance as is.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 02:52:29 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 02, 2020, 02:49:39 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 02, 2020, 02:41:42 PMWHO is considers changing guidance on wearing face masks..

While everyone wearing face masks may help protect each individual - when hospital staff cannot get sufficient face masks to protect themselves I feel its better if they just keep guidance as is.

It seems that a cotton mask can be some use. Can O'Neills etc not make these and leave the N95 class masks for the health staff.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 02, 2020, 03:07:42 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 02, 2020, 02:49:39 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 02, 2020, 02:41:42 PMWHO is considers changing guidance on wearing face masks..

While everyone wearing face masks may help protect each individual - when hospital staff cannot get sufficient face masks to protect themselves I feel its better if they just keep guidance as is.
Anything that helps needs to be looked at. Less individuals getting his virus will ease the pressure on hospitals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on April 02, 2020, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 02, 2020, 02:49:39 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 02, 2020, 02:41:42 PMWHO is considers changing guidance on wearing face masks..

While everyone wearing face masks may help protect each individual - when hospital staff cannot get sufficient face masks to protect themselves I feel its better if they just keep guidance as is.

Theres me thinkin we were a first world country. Is this not a f*cking joke in this day and age
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on April 02, 2020, 03:16:03 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 02, 2020, 03:07:42 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 02, 2020, 02:49:39 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 02, 2020, 02:41:42 PMWHO is considers changing guidance on wearing face masks..

While everyone wearing face masks may help protect each individual - when hospital staff cannot get sufficient face masks to protect themselves I feel its better if they just keep guidance as is.
Anything that helps needs to be looked at. Less individuals getting his virus will ease the pressure on hospitals.

I think the sense is that people should wear masks, not to protect themselves, but to protect others from them.  Therefore everyone needs to be doing it.  In that case, I don't think you need everyone wearing the kind of high quality face mask required for the NHS, which in a health setting is there both to protect the wearer and those they come into contact with.  Health workers would obviously have priority for properly fitted masks and the rest of us would be encouraged to wear something, but not compete with the health service for the real deal. 

I think that's what other countries are doing, and tbh, if it works, it will make be better all round. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 02, 2020, 03:27:14 PM
Exactly - basic facemasks to help a bit. Any "industrial" quality should be for frontline people.

I always felt they hadn't a full grasp on how contagious this was - still feel they don't - so the face mask thing definitely makes some sense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on April 02, 2020, 03:30:23 PM
I see this hotshot has cracked it:

(https://news.images.itv.com/image/file/2172664/stream_img.jpg)

Forgets about your wet markets, lack of testing, masks, all that shite. It's all because of the gays. Or abortion. Or both.

www.itv.com/news/utv/2020-04-02/dup-councillor-blames-coronavirus-pandemic-on-god-s-judgment-for-legalising-abortion
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 02, 2020, 03:30:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 02, 2020, 03:27:14 PM
Exactly - basic facemasks to help a bit. Any "industrial" quality should be for frontline people.

I can agree with that wholeheartedly - unfortunately how many f**king clampits are there out there that will scramble for N95?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 02, 2020, 03:34:38 PM
Yes people can be the worst :(

Read that DUP clampit earlier. Not really a surprise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 02, 2020, 03:36:18 PM
Another 569 deaths logged today in the uk
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 02, 2020, 03:38:39 PM
f**k
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 02, 2020, 03:40:39 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 02, 2020, 03:30:23 PM
I see this hotshot has cracked it:

(https://news.images.itv.com/image/file/2172664/stream_img.jpg)

Forgets about your wet markets, lack of testing, masks, all that shite. It's all because of the gays. Or abortion. Or both.

www.itv.com/news/utv/2020-04-02/dup-councillor-blames-coronavirus-pandemic-on-god-s-judgment-for-legalising-abortion

(https://media.giphy.com/media/9VrsRNeA0SHcEeos1h/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 02, 2020, 03:46:43 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 02, 2020, 03:36:18 PM
Another 569 deaths logged today in the uk

Will Johnson survive this complete f**king mess he is overseeing? His total stupidity will ended up killing 10's of thousands of people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 02, 2020, 03:56:54 PM
Of course he will.

Trump as well.

If this thing is showing us anything it's that people of this ilk are not fit for purpose in power where they are responsible for the livelihoods and wellbeing of many many people. Not one f**k could they give.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on April 02, 2020, 04:07:15 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 02, 2020, 03:46:43 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 02, 2020, 03:36:18 PM
Another 569 deaths logged today in the uk

Will Johnson survive this complete f**king mess he is overseeing? His total stupidity will ended up killing 10's of thousands of people.

If there's any natural justice, neither him nor any of the other failures leading the response to this crisis in the UK should ever be allowed hold a position of responsibility for the rest of their days.

But they'll be fine. They'll keep coming out with trite nationalistic rallying cries about the heroes in the NHS and the Great British spirit, and loads of thickos across the water will get it into their heads that they're all 'doing their best', and that any criticism is either partisan, or spiteful, or not helpful during this Great British emergency.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 02, 2020, 04:13:44 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 02, 2020, 03:56:54 PM
Of course he will.

Trump as well.

If this thing is showing us anything it's that people of this ilk are not fit for purpose in power where they are responsible for the livelihoods and wellbeing of many many people. Not one f**k could they give.

The Americans will always row in behind the President in times of crisis.

It's probably saved Leo too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 02, 2020, 04:16:47 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 02, 2020, 04:13:44 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 02, 2020, 03:56:54 PM
Of course he will.

Trump as well.

If this thing is showing us anything it's that people of this ilk are not fit for purpose in power where they are responsible for the livelihoods and wellbeing of many many people. Not one f**k could they give.

The Americans will always row in behind the President in times of crisis.

It's probably saved Leo too.

Go online and read the comments in support of Trump on the american news threads/ tweets. It beggars belief.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 02, 2020, 04:24:01 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 02, 2020, 03:30:23 PM
I see this hotshot has cracked it:

(https://news.images.itv.com/image/file/2172664/stream_img.jpg)

Forgets about your wet markets, lack of testing, masks, all that shite. It's all because of the gays. Or abortion. Or both.

www.itv.com/news/utv/2020-04-02/dup-councillor-blames-coronavirus-pandemic-on-god-s-judgment-for-legalising-abortion
So God was ok with the rest of the world having abortion but once it was introduced into the 6 Cos. He got annoyed and sent the virus? And to China first🙄

The 17th Cehtury has some fuckwits living in it!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 02, 2020, 04:24:23 PM
The language of Trump about this virus is the language of a person with a lot of deep psychological issues. It is him against the virus and he will beat it. There are all levels of shit going wrong there and none of them are things you want anywhere near someone in such a position of power but we knew that already.

The fact that he has support beggars belief. My wife was telling me her english cousins have been crowing about what a great job Johnston is doing too. It's unbelievable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 04:33:52 PM
Quote from: APM on April 02, 2020, 03:16:03 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 02, 2020, 03:07:42 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 02, 2020, 02:49:39 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 02, 2020, 02:41:42 PMWHO is considers changing guidance on wearing face masks..

While everyone wearing face masks may help protect each individual - when hospital staff cannot get sufficient face masks to protect themselves I feel its better if they just keep guidance as is.
Anything that helps needs to be looked at. Less individuals getting his virus will ease the pressure on hospitals.

I think the sense is that people should wear masks, not to protect themselves, but to protect others from them.  Therefore everyone needs to be doing it.  In that case, I don't think you need everyone wearing the kind of high quality face mask required for the NHS, which in a health setting is there both to protect the wearer and those they come into contact with.  Health workers would obviously have priority for properly fitted masks and the rest of us would be encouraged to wear something, but not compete with the health service for the real deal. 

I think that's what other countries are doing, and tbh, if it works, it will make be better all round.


Surely if you are on lockdown and not leaving the house, you'll not need a mask! One would suffice for shopping or walking the dog, but if your social distancing is done correctly you'll not be in contact with anybody outside of your family.

I had to take my dad to the Royal yesterday! Urgent hospital appointment that couldn't be put off, picked up, gloves on, scarf on him and mask on me put him in back seat took to hospital, 6th floor , plenty of requirements on distance and so on, staff not wearing and protection, yes it's nowhere near anything (virus wards) and sanitizer on entrance of clinic but everything seemed relaxed!

Dad was dropped off back home and I did usual, stripped clothes in washer had a shower! Went out today and wiped car down! OTT
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 02, 2020, 04:38:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 02, 2020, 04:24:01 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 02, 2020, 03:30:23 PM
I see this hotshot has cracked it:

(https://news.images.itv.com/image/file/2172664/stream_img.jpg)

Forgets about your wet markets, lack of testing, masks, all that shite. It's all because of the gays. Or abortion. Or both.

www.itv.com/news/utv/2020-04-02/dup-councillor-blames-coronavirus-pandemic-on-god-s-judgment-for-legalising-abortion
So God was ok with the rest of the world having abortion but once it was introduced into the 6 Cos. He got annoyed and sent the virus? And to China first🙄

The 17th Cehtury has some fuckwits living in it!!

He's no different to anti vaxers and conspiracy theorists. There's some involved in GAA. They even contribute to this board. They should of course be banned but mods are to relaxed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 02, 2020, 05:00:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2020, 04:38:13 PM

He's no different to anti vaxers and conspiracy theorists

...and global warmers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 02, 2020, 05:01:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 02, 2020, 04:13:44 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 02, 2020, 03:56:54 PM
Of course he will.

Trump as well.

If this thing is showing us anything it's that people of this ilk are not fit for purpose in power where they are responsible for the livelihoods and wellbeing of many many people. Not one f**k could they give.

The Americans will always row in behind the President in times of crisis.

It's probably saved Leo too.

Didn't he already resign?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 02, 2020, 05:14:14 PM
Quote from: five points on April 02, 2020, 05:00:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 02, 2020, 04:38:13 PM

He's no different to anti vaxers and conspiracy theorists

...and global warmers.

If you ignore the whole issue of evidence and science, you're probably right.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on April 02, 2020, 05:39:15 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 02, 2020, 03:46:43 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 02, 2020, 03:36:18 PM
Another 569 deaths logged today in the uk

Will Johnson survive this complete f**king mess he is overseeing? His total stupidity will ended up killing 10's of thousands of people.

There will be 10,000 dead in the UK by the middle of April
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 05:43:51 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 02, 2020, 05:39:15 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 02, 2020, 03:46:43 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 02, 2020, 03:36:18 PM
Another 569 deaths logged today in the uk

Will Johnson survive this complete f**king mess he is overseeing? His total stupidity will ended up killing 10's of thousands of people.

There will be 10,000 dead in the UK by the middle of April

Was the target (that's not what I mean as such) not a minimum of 20,000 to 100,000?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 02, 2020, 05:53:20 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 02, 2020, 05:39:15 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 02, 2020, 03:46:43 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 02, 2020, 03:36:18 PM
Another 569 deaths logged today in the uk

Will Johnson survive this complete f**king mess he is overseeing? His total stupidity will ended up killing 10's of thousands of people.

There will be 10,000 dead in the UK by the middle of April
The real number will be even higher


   https://www.ft.com/content/58ece0fb-d297-495e-8889-da216410f2c3

   "In the province of Bergamo, 2,060 deaths were attributed to the virus in March. However L'Eco di Bergamo, a local newspaper, found that a total of 5,400 deaths occurred in the province in March, up from just 900 in the same month in 2019.

Some small towns in Lombardy have seen total deaths in March from all causes spike by over 900 per cent year on year, according to analysis conducted by the polling and data analysis company YouTrend. "
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 02, 2020, 05:53:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 02, 2020, 03:46:43 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 02, 2020, 03:36:18 PM
Another 569 deaths logged today in the uk

Will Johnson survive this complete f**king mess he is overseeing? His total stupidity will ended up killing 10's of thousands of people.

He became PM even though his party got only 46% of the vote in the last election. He certainly will survive it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 02, 2020, 05:56:26 PM
Latest in the 26 - 402 new cases and 13 deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 02, 2020, 06:05:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 02, 2020, 05:53:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 02, 2020, 03:46:43 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 02, 2020, 03:36:18 PM
Another 569 deaths logged today in the uk

Will Johnson survive this complete f**king mess he is overseeing? His total stupidity will ended up killing 10's of thousands of people.

He became PM even though his party got only 46% of the vote in the last election. He certainly will survive it.

When was the last time a UK party got more than 50% in a general election?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on April 02, 2020, 06:10:54 PM
Getting a test to see who's immune to this is the most important thing to develop, millions of people could be locked inside who already had the virus and don't know about it , testing someone today doesn't mean they won't have it tomorrow, people can't be locked up for months as businesses and  livelihoods are destroyed thus communities as a result are shattered for years .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 06:19:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 02, 2020, 06:10:54 PM
Getting a test to see who's immune to this is the most important thing to develop, millions of people could be locked inside who already had the virus and don't know about it , testing someone today doesn't mean they won't have it tomorrow, people can't be locked up for months as businesses and  livelihoods are destroyed thus communities as a result are shattered for years .

Yes, but you need to be careful that you do not create an incentive to get the virus in order to be declared immune.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 06:21:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 06:19:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 02, 2020, 06:10:54 PM
Getting a test to see who's immune to this is the most important thing to develop, millions of people could be locked inside who already had the virus and don't know about it , testing someone today doesn't mean they won't have it tomorrow, people can't be locked up for months as businesses and  livelihoods are destroyed thus communities as a result are shattered for years .

Yes, but you need to be careful that you do not create an incentive to get the virus in order to be declared immune.

Young and old are dying of this, you'd have to be a junkie to want to catch it first and gamble with being healthy after it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 06:58:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 06:21:49 PM
Young and old are dying of this, you'd have to be a junkie to want to catch it first and gamble with being healthy after it.

Many young people don't seem to think that they'll die and you have the "it's only the flu" crowd.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 02, 2020, 07:00:49 PM
Eight of ten people I'll be fine. The problem is no one knows whether they're in that 8 or the other 2 :(

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 02, 2020, 07:06:23 PM
I'm already feeling the strain, both myself and wife still working each day, the stress of being in work and the constant paranoia around cleaning is nearly over bearing. I fully understand that it needs done but do feel exposed more than most. I'm in manufacturing, she is in Altnagelvin.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 07:12:57 PM
Just crossed the million confirmed cases worldwide.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 02, 2020, 07:13:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 02, 2020, 06:05:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 02, 2020, 05:53:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 02, 2020, 03:46:43 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 02, 2020, 03:36:18 PM
Another 569 deaths logged today in the uk

Will Johnson survive this complete f**king mess he is overseeing? His total stupidity will ended up killing 10's of thousands of people.

He became PM even though his party got only 46% of the vote in the last election. He certainly will survive it.

When was the last time a UK party got more than 50% in a general election?

Tories in 1931, I think. The Tory LibDem coalition of 2010 had 59% of the popular vote between them.

Even the great Labour landslide of 1997 only had 43% of the popular vote.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 02, 2020, 08:01:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 07:12:57 PM
Just crossed the million confirmed cases worldwide.
It'll be x10 millions by end of the year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 02, 2020, 08:13:19 PM
If tests say one million I would say it is several multiples of that higher. Who knows it could be ten million now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: MayoBuck on April 02, 2020, 08:16:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 07:12:57 PM
Just crossed the million confirmed cases worldwide.

Confirmed deaths are just over 50k now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on April 02, 2020, 08:21:11 PM
i heard a young lad (32) who worked for me previously passed away yesterday from covid 19. If it hadnt hit home already how serious this was that news really has. shook and shocked..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 02, 2020, 08:57:09 PM
The Tories are getting a lot of flack from the Tory press.

They are trína chéile. Things are going to get a lot worse before they get worse for them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 08:59:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 02, 2020, 08:57:09 PM
The Tories are getting a lot of flack from the Tory press.

They are trína chéile. Things are going to get a lot worse before they get worse for them.

Many Telegraph readers are of the older generation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 09:04:55 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 02, 2020, 09:00:42 PM
Exams are going ahead in the south. How the feck are they managing that? Seems like a poor call.

I think it is doable. While doing an exam you are separated and this separation can be doubled. The issue arises before and after the exam, staggered start times and similar strategies can work here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dougal Maguire on April 02, 2020, 09:09:30 PM
I doubt if they'll go ahead but it makes sense not to say anything otherwise it might be difficult to keep kids occupied and instead
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 09:17:12 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 02, 2020, 09:08:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 09:04:55 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 02, 2020, 09:00:42 PM
Exams are going ahead in the south. How the feck are they managing that? Seems like a poor call.

I think it is doable. While doing an exam you are separated and this separation can be doubled. The issue arises before and after the exam, staggered start times and similar strategies can work here.
There are bigger issues than that. When are the kids going to be back in school to be taught for these exams? How do they catch up on the time lost? How many kids will be freaking out at this news? Physically exams can be taken, yes!

They can  do their class  online. These are 18 year olds  for  the most part, adults, not kids. If there are no exams then there cannot be any university admittance, and a whole year would  be lost. Anyone that can't hack studying online won't suit university anyway so it doesn't matter if they don't do the exam.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 10:00:19 PM
That's pure daft!

Testing for the biggest exams of their lives, but the smart experts on here think they can be taught online  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 10:02:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 10:00:19 PM
That's pure daft!

Testing for the biggest exams of their lives, but the smart experts on here think they can be taught online  ;D

Easy to sneer. They can't be taught in school, what is the alternative?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 10:11:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 10:02:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 10:00:19 PM
That's pure daft!

Testing for the biggest exams of their lives, but the smart experts on here think they can be taught online  ;D

Easy to sneer. They can't be taught in school, what is the alternative?

Allow the teachers who teach them to do their job, they'll have done assessments I'd assume over the years, and will be better placed to know how well they'll do.

Predictive grades will be used here possibly along with previous tests and course work, this is extraordinary times but putting kids through this while not covered all topics is unfair
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 10:25:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 10:11:56 PM

Allow the teachers who teach them to do their job, they'll have done assessments I'd assume over the years, and will be better placed to know how well they'll do.

I am. I am expecting  them to  continue their classes during this time and continue grading stuff and  so on.

[/quote] Predictive grades will be used here possibly along with previous tests and course work, this is extraordinary times but putting kids through this while not covered all topics is unfair
[/quote]

A levels have components in many cases, the Leaving does not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 10:30:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 10:25:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 10:11:56 PM

Allow the teachers who teach them to do their job, they'll have done assessments I'd assume over the years, and will be better placed to know how well they'll do.

I am. I am expecting  them to  continue their classes during this time and continue grading stuff and  so on.

Predictive grades will be used here possibly along with previous tests and course work, this is extraordinary times but putting kids through this while not covered all topics is unfair
[/quote]

A levels have components in many cases, the Leaving does not.
[/quote]

They can't teach via the computer. If that's the case why have schools, classes or teachers for that matter
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 10:48:27 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 02, 2020, 10:38:49 PM
Does every pupil have access to a computer at home? The internet?

Are they expected to be able to learn from home? When was this explained to them? Have they had any experience of this previously? Have they had adequate training on it? Have teachers been given adequate training on teaching remotely? Are they able to cater for all learners? Special Educational Needs pupils with entitlement to Classroom Assistants?

It is simply wrong. It is heaping added pressure on young people in what is already an anxious time for them.

So what  is the solution? Some test done last year which the student never expected to count for anything? That doesn't pressume people?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 02, 2020, 11:33:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 10:30:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 10:25:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 10:11:56 PM

Allow the teachers who teach them to do their job, they'll have done assessments I'd assume over the years, and will be better placed to know how well they'll do.

I am. I am expecting  them to  continue their classes during this time and continue grading stuff and  so on.

Predictive grades will be used here possibly along with previous tests and course work, this is extraordinary times but putting kids through this while not covered all topics is unfair

A levels have components in many cases, the Leaving does not.
[/quote]

They can't teach via the computer. If that's the case why have schools, classes or teachers for that matter
[/quote]

No, they cant teach as well by computer.  I have to hire and train people on complex machines from 2m distance in the coming weeks. I don't know how I'll do it but it will get done. This is our new reality so professions will have to deal with it. Predictive grades? You can't be serious. Sut exams and grade on a curve if you must but give people a fair chance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on April 02, 2020, 11:38:16 PM
Michelle O Neill certainly came out swinging tonight... i definitely don't agree with the way they've went about criticising publicly the health minister & health service when their fully aware of the constraints within the country.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 11:42:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 02, 2020, 11:33:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 10:30:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 10:25:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 10:11:56 PM

Allow the teachers who teach them to do their job, they'll have done assessments I'd assume over the years, and will be better placed to know how well they'll do.

I am. I am expecting  them to  continue their classes during this time and continue grading stuff and  so on.

Predictive grades will be used here possibly along with previous tests and course work, this is extraordinary times but putting kids through this while not covered all topics is unfair

A levels have components in many cases, the Leaving does not.

They can't teach via the computer. If that's the case why have schools, classes or teachers for that matter
[/quote]

No, they cant teach as well by computer.  I have to hire and train people on complex machines from 2m distance in the coming weeks. I don't know how I'll do it but it will get done. This is our new reality so professions will have to deal with it. Predictive grades? You can't be serious. Sut exams and grade on a curve if you must but give people a fair chance.
[/quote]

30 kids per class of mixed abilities are being taught topics via the internet and expected to sit exams is fair?

Have you kids? Would you be happy for your kids to be put through the biggest exams of their lives to date by online teaching?

My wife is currently using the various methods of teaching mediums, kids aren't logging on some have no internet or limited access or data to use. But yeah those who are disadvantaged will lose out those that require extra tuition can't get it.

Personally I wouldn't be happy for my kids (both going GCSE and A levels)  to be reliant on a teacher putting up lessons and the stuff being taught correctly, kids from previous years have been given a full years learning these haven't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 12:11:39 AM
Watching on sky one, Coronavirus, in the red zone.

Horrific
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: High Fielder on April 03, 2020, 06:13:48 AM
Maybe one good thing to come from this is the spotlight being shone on overpaid footballers. I have never been happy with these super earners and their disproportionate wealth. The figures in more recent years have got crazy. They're at home now like the rest of us, and still raking in the dough while the rest of the world takes a hit. It has become a fantasy world that bears no resemblance to reality, and hopefully now, clubs can use a clause to put some manners on this market. There's being well paid and wealth, and then there's Ronaldo, Messi and so many more of them. Obscene.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on April 03, 2020, 07:57:01 AM
Quote from: hardstation on April 02, 2020, 10:51:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 10:48:27 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 02, 2020, 10:38:49 PM
Does every pupil have access to a computer at home? The internet?

Are they expected to be able to learn from home? When was this explained to them? Have they had any experience of this previously? Have they had adequate training on it? Have teachers been given adequate training on teaching remotely? Are they able to cater for all learners? Special Educational Needs pupils with entitlement to Classroom Assistants?

It is simply wrong. It is heaping added pressure on young people in what is already an anxious time for them.

So what  is the solution? Some test done last year which the student never expected to count for anything? That doesn't pressume people?
The "solution" is certainly not to throw them to the lions unprepared. There isn't a perfect solution but it should be a long time before that one is considered. FWIW, their teachers have a fair idea of where each pupil would be scoring in the test had it run its course. Again, it's not a perfect solution to give predicted grades and there will be inaccuracies. For me, all things considered, it beats the hell out of throwing them in unprepared.
The gov have fairly dragged their feet here too.

I don't see a good alternative. The other option is to have no LC. With no LC I don't see how you can grade students fairly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on April 03, 2020, 08:00:40 AM
Quote from: High Fielder on April 03, 2020, 06:13:48 AM
Maybe one good thing to come from this is the spotlight being shone on overpaid footballers. I have never been happy with these super earners and their disproportionate wealth. The figures in more recent years have got crazy. They're at home now like the rest of us, and still raking in the dough while the rest of the world takes a hit. It has become a fantasy world that bears no resemblance to reality, and hopefully now, clubs can use a clause to put some manners on this market. There's being well paid and wealth, and then there's Ronaldo, Messi and so many more of them. Obscene.

To be fair to the footballers. It's not their fault that clubs are willing to pay that amount. The Ronaldos and all aren't the ones who I even care about the obscene amounts as they're the best in the world. It's the Alexis Sanchez type player, getting 500k a week and him completely dung. Again not his fault he's getting paid that amount but the leagues need to bring in a salary cap of some sort. It's crazy thinking of the nurses in ICU getting paid buttons compared to people playing football.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on April 03, 2020, 08:53:31 AM
Quote from: hardstation on April 03, 2020, 08:41:17 AM
Quote from: trileacman on April 03, 2020, 07:57:01 AM
Quote from: hardstation on April 02, 2020, 10:51:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 10:48:27 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 02, 2020, 10:38:49 PM
Does every pupil have access to a computer at home? The internet?

Are they expected to be able to learn from home? When was this explained to them? Have they had any experience of this previously? Have they had adequate training on it? Have teachers been given adequate training on teaching remotely? Are they able to cater for all learners? Special Educational Needs pupils with entitlement to Classroom Assistants?

It is simply wrong. It is heaping added pressure on young people in what is already an anxious time for them.

So what  is the solution? Some test done last year which the student never expected to count for anything? That doesn't pressume people?
The "solution" is certainly not to throw them to the lions unprepared. There isn't a perfect solution but it should be a long time before that one is considered. FWIW, their teachers have a fair idea of where each pupil would be scoring in the test had it run its course. Again, it's not a perfect solution to give predicted grades and there will be inaccuracies. For me, all things considered, it beats the hell out of throwing them in unprepared.
The gov have fairly dragged their feet here too.

I don't see a good alternative. The other option is to have no LC. With no LC I don't see how you can grade students fairly.
I can't see how grading them on the LC could possibly give a fair result. They won't have been in school for months!
Making them sit the LC in these circumstances is completely inconsiderate. It is a stressful time for young people on a normal year. This will have a serious effect on the mental health of these kids.
So, when we are talking about what is "fair", I cannot see how making them sit the LC in these circumstances could ever be seen as fair. It is anything but.

Totally agree HS. Surely they won't go through with this. It's playing a championship final and telling the lads to just do their own stuff for a few months before it and see how you get on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mike Tyson on April 03, 2020, 09:00:28 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on April 03, 2020, 08:00:40 AM
Quote from: High Fielder on April 03, 2020, 06:13:48 AM
Maybe one good thing to come from this is the spotlight being shone on overpaid footballers. I have never been happy with these super earners and their disproportionate wealth. The figures in more recent years have got crazy. They're at home now like the rest of us, and still raking in the dough while the rest of the world takes a hit. It has become a fantasy world that bears no resemblance to reality, and hopefully now, clubs can use a clause to put some manners on this market. There's being well paid and wealth, and then there's Ronaldo, Messi and so many more of them. Obscene.

To be fair to the footballers. It's not their fault that clubs are willing to pay that amount. The Ronaldos and all aren't the ones who I even care about the obscene amounts as they're the best in the world. It's the Alexis Sanchez type player, getting 500k a week and him completely dung. Again not his fault he's getting paid that amount but the leagues need to bring in a salary cap of some sort. It's crazy thinking of the nurses in ICU getting paid buttons compared to people playing football.

Footballers are the easy target, although I do agree salaries are a joke. I'd wager the vast majority get their salaries through PAYE and so contribute plenty in tax & NI.

No mention from Hancock of the tax avoiding billionaire donors to the Conservative's having to pay their fair share? No mention of Branson & Stelios Haji-Ioannou calling for bailouts from the govt after extracting billions from their companies?

The top hedge fund managers, bankers, barristers, private doctors and pharma execs aren't asked to contribute more so why should footballers?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on April 03, 2020, 09:33:51 AM
Southerners wouldn't be as smart as us up here so I reckon LC would be a doddle.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ned on April 03, 2020, 10:02:36 AM
Quote from: Mike Tyson on April 03, 2020, 09:00:28 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on April 03, 2020, 08:00:40 AM
Quote from: High Fielder on April 03, 2020, 06:13:48 AM
Maybe one good thing to come from this is the spotlight being shone on overpaid footballers. I have never been happy with these super earners and their disproportionate wealth. The figures in more recent years have got crazy. They're at home now like the rest of us, and still raking in the dough while the rest of the world takes a hit. It has become a fantasy world that bears no resemblance to reality, and hopefully now, clubs can use a clause to put some manners on this market. There's being well paid and wealth, and then there's Ronaldo, Messi and so many more of them. Obscene.

To be fair to the footballers. It's not their fault that clubs are willing to pay that amount. The Ronaldos and all aren't the ones who I even care about the obscene amounts as they're the best in the world. It's the Alexis Sanchez type player, getting 500k a week and him completely dung. Again not his fault he's getting paid that amount but the leagues need to bring in a salary cap of some sort. It's crazy thinking of the nurses in ICU getting paid buttons compared to people playing football.

Footballers are the easy target, although I do agree salaries are a joke. I'd wager the vast majority get their salaries through PAYE and so contribute plenty in tax & NI.

No mention from Hancock of the tax avoiding billionaire donors to the Conservative's having to pay their fair share? No mention of Branson & Stelios Haji-Ioannou calling for bailouts from the govt after extracting billions from their companies?

The top hedge fund managers, bankers, barristers, private doctors and pharma execs aren't asked to contribute more so why should footballers?

Footballers are an easy target. Football is an entertainment business and they are paid the market rate. What about actors, musicians?
Are charity bosses or hedge fund bosses or bankers worth what they are paid? We are seeing what services are vital to our lives just now. So should a binman be paid twice as much as a hairdresser? But I would agree a lot of NHS staff are underpaid and underappreciated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 10:13:44 AM
At the minute the lowest paid workers in the health service are the ones at most risk, your cleaners, god help them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: the goal was on on April 03, 2020, 10:25:38 AM
For someone who avoided taking the health remit at all costs she fairly want to get her bake involved now. We need someone with solutions rather than blame blame blame. More testing - tell us how, tell us where u propose to get them, who we can work with to develop them. More PPE - Again tell us the current numbers, where the gaps are, orders currently made and quantity, where you aim to distribute them, How you may be able to source more. We are competing USA among others for this stuff so tell us how you are getting ahead of the game. Easy game O Neill is playing IMO. Get to work and each day tell us what u have done.This is what most countries doin there daily briefings not tel lus all the problems
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: square_ball on April 03, 2020, 10:31:20 AM
Quote from: the goal was on on April 03, 2020, 10:25:38 AM
For someone who avoided taking the health remit at all costs she fairly want to get her bake involved now. We need someone with solutions rather than blame blame blame. More testing - tell us how, tell us where u propose to get them, who we can work with to develop them. More PPE - Again tell us the current numbers, where the gaps are, orders currently made and quantity, where you aim to distribute them, How you may be able to source more. We are competing USA among others for this stuff so tell us how you are getting ahead of the game. Easy game O Neill is playing IMO. Get to work and each day tell us what u have done.This is what most countries doin there daily briefings not tel lus all the problems

Exactly. I believe she is making valid points but she loses credibility when she isn't offering solutions. If everything was so easy why didn't Sinn Fein take the Health post when it was on offer?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 03, 2020, 10:48:16 AM
Quote from: square_ball on April 03, 2020, 10:31:20 AM
Quote from: the goal was on on April 03, 2020, 10:25:38 AM
For someone who avoided taking the health remit at all costs she fairly want to get her bake involved now. We need someone with solutions rather than blame blame blame. More testing - tell us how, tell us where u propose to get them, who we can work with to develop them. More PPE - Again tell us the current numbers, where the gaps are, orders currently made and quantity, where you aim to distribute them, How you may be able to source more. We are competing USA among others for this stuff so tell us how you are getting ahead of the game. Easy game O Neill is playing IMO. Get to work and each day tell us what u have done.This is what most countries doin there daily briefings not tel lus all the problems

Exactly. I believe she is making valid points but she loses credibility when she isn't offering solutions. If everything was so easy why didn't Sinn Fein take the Health post when it was on offer?

I'd say both the DUP and SF have questions to answer there alright but remember Swann stood down from the UUP leadership to spend more time with his young family and then a few months later he takes up the Health ministers role which is probably the biggest role in Stormont.

Michelle isn't wrong but the frustration from seeing the DUP/UUP/Alliance/SDLP blindly following the now ridiculed London based strategy must have boiled over and she shouldn't be so frank on TV and keep a lid on it.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 03, 2020, 11:11:47 AM
Quote from: ONeill on April 03, 2020, 09:33:51 AM
Southerners wouldn't be as smart as us up here so I reckon LC would be a doddle.

How many subjects do you take in the Northern version of Leaving Cert?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on April 03, 2020, 11:13:25 AM
Quote from: square_ball on April 03, 2020, 10:31:20 AM
Quote from: the goal was on on April 03, 2020, 10:25:38 AM
For someone who avoided taking the health remit at all costs she fairly want to get her bake involved now. We need someone with solutions rather than blame blame blame. More testing - tell us how, tell us where u propose to get them, who we can work with to develop them. More PPE - Again tell us the current numbers, where the gaps are, orders currently made and quantity, where you aim to distribute them, How you may be able to source more. We are competing USA among others for this stuff so tell us how you are getting ahead of the game. Easy game O Neill is playing IMO. Get to work and each day tell us what u have done.This is what most countries doin there daily briefings not tel lus all the problems

Totally agree with this

Exactly. I believe she is making valid points but she loses credibility when she isn't offering solutions. If everything was so easy why didn't Sinn Fein take the Health post when it was on offer?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 03, 2020, 11:14:04 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2020, 10:48:16 AM
Quote from: square_ball on April 03, 2020, 10:31:20 AM
Quote from: the goal was on on April 03, 2020, 10:25:38 AM
For someone who avoided taking the health remit at all costs she fairly want to get her bake involved now. We need someone with solutions rather than blame blame blame. More testing - tell us how, tell us where u propose to get them, who we can work with to develop them. More PPE - Again tell us the current numbers, where the gaps are, orders currently made and quantity, where you aim to distribute them, How you may be able to source more. We are competing USA among others for this stuff so tell us how you are getting ahead of the game. Easy game O Neill is playing IMO. Get to work and each day tell us what u have done.This is what most countries doin there daily briefings not tel lus all the problems

Exactly. I believe she is making valid points but she loses credibility when she isn't offering solutions. If everything was so easy why didn't Sinn Fein take the Health post when it was on offer?

I'd say both the DUP and SF have questions to answer there alright but remember Swann stood down from the UUP leadership to spend more time with his young family and then a few months later he takes up the Health ministers role which is probably the biggest role in Stormont.

Michelle isn't wrong but the frustration from seeing the DUP/UUP/Alliance/SDLP blindly following the now ridiculed London based strategy must have boiled over and she shouldn't be so frank on TV and keep a lid on it.

Yeah I don't think she keeps her cool sometimes but she is bang on and that is from someone who is not a big fan of hers. I would rather she says shit now than at some inquiry after the fact when it's too late for a lot of people :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 03, 2020, 11:17:22 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 11:42:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 02, 2020, 11:33:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 10:30:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 02, 2020, 10:25:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 02, 2020, 10:11:56 PM

Allow the teachers who teach them to do their job, they'll have done assessments I'd assume over the years, and will be better placed to know how well they'll do.

I am. I am expecting  them to  continue their classes during this time and continue grading stuff and  so on.

Predictive grades will be used here possibly along with previous tests and course work, this is extraordinary times but putting kids through this while not covered all topics is unfair

A levels have components in many cases, the Leaving does not.

They can't teach via the computer. If that's the case why have schools, classes or teachers for that matter

No, they cant teach as well by computer.  I have to hire and train people on complex machines from 2m distance in the coming weeks. I don't know how I'll do it but it will get done. This is our new reality so professions will have to deal with it. Predictive grades? You can't be serious. Sut exams and grade on a curve if you must but give people a fair chance.
[/quote]

30 kids per class of mixed abilities are being taught topics via the internet and expected to sit exams is fair?

Have you kids? Would you be happy for your kids to be put through the biggest exams of their lives to date by online teaching?

My wife is currently using the various methods of teaching mediums, kids aren't logging on some have no internet or limited access or data to use. But yeah those who are disadvantaged will lose out those that require extra tuition can't get it.

Personally I wouldn't be happy for my kids (both going GCSE and A levels)  to be reliant on a teacher putting up lessons and the stuff being taught correctly, kids from previous years have been given a full years learning these haven't.
[/quote]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/stop-trying-to-be-superheroes-principal-s-message-to-parents-1.4213128
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on April 03, 2020, 11:18:22 AM
But Tommy what is she doing to help solve the problems?

I'm not privy to any public sector procurement but am i totally  off the mark to think all purchasing gets routed & signed off via department of finance? A ministry controller by Sinn Fein?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 03, 2020, 11:26:04 AM
In that regard you are probably right and I don't know the answer to your finance question.

I just find it very frustrating to read about testing kits etc and getting flown back to the UK and then we just get scraps. At least she's highlighting it I guess. We do not matter that much to the UK and brexit and this have shown us it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on April 03, 2020, 11:33:23 AM
Fully agree on your points about test kits - that's one of the great scandals of this whole pandemic - for the heat that's coming their way Randox would do well to issue some form of statement to confirm why they haven't engaged with the local government until now or vice versa as this will undoubtedly play out for many years why they weren't used during this pandemic!

UK don't give one hoot about Northern Ireland - we're an expensive pain in their backside.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 03, 2020, 12:00:46 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on April 03, 2020, 11:33:23 AM
Fully agree on your points about test kits - that's one of the great scandals of this whole pandemic - for the heat that's coming their way Randox would do well to issue some form of statement to confirm why they haven't engaged with the local government until now or vice versa as this will undoubtedly play out for many years why they weren't used during this pandemic!

UK don't give one hoot about Northern Ireland - we're an expensive pain in their backside.

In fairness, bar a written statement they've made that pretty clear over the past few years. If they thought they could wash their hands of it, they would.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 03, 2020, 12:06:10 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on April 03, 2020, 11:33:23 AM
Fully agree on your points about test kits - that's one of the great scandals of this whole pandemic - for the heat that's coming their way Randox would do well to issue some form of statement to confirm why they haven't engaged with the local government until now or vice versa as this will undoubtedly play out for many years why they weren't used during this pandemic!

UK don't give one hoot about Northern Ireland - we're an expensive pain in their backside.

I would love to see what Randox are doing social distancing wise etc for their employees. They are a company with a dubious reputation anyway and I'm not even sure they care.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 03, 2020, 12:09:07 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2020, 10:48:16 AM
Quote from: square_ball on April 03, 2020, 10:31:20 AM
Quote from: the goal was on on April 03, 2020, 10:25:38 AM
For someone who avoided taking the health remit at all costs she fairly want to get her bake involved now. We need someone with solutions rather than blame blame blame. More testing - tell us how, tell us where u propose to get them, who we can work with to develop them. More PPE - Again tell us the current numbers, where the gaps are, orders currently made and quantity, where you aim to distribute them, How you may be able to source more. We are competing USA among others for this stuff so tell us how you are getting ahead of the game. Easy game O Neill is playing IMO. Get to work and each day tell us what u have done.This is what most countries doin there daily briefings not tel lus all the problems

Exactly. I believe she is making valid points but she loses credibility when she isn't offering solutions. If everything was so easy why didn't Sinn Fein take the Health post when it was on offer?

I'd say both the DUP and SF have questions to answer there alright but remember Swann stood down from the UUP leadership to spend more time with his young family and then a few months later he takes up the Health ministers role which is probably the biggest role in Stormont.

Michelle isn't wrong but the frustration from seeing the DUP/UUP/Alliance/SDLP blindly following the now ridiculed London based strategy must have boiled over and she shouldn't be so frank on TV and keep a lid on it.

She's right to call it out.  Following London has been a total and utter failure.  From very start, this should, like foot and mouth, be treated on an all Ireland basis.  It just shows the frustration in the other parties following London instead of adhereing to the WHO etc.

I
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on April 03, 2020, 12:14:54 PM
I wouldn't have any issue with calling it out - but surely you've to offer a solution?

You can't shirk the department selection a few weeks beforehand and then go two footed into them in times of crisis without offering answers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 03, 2020, 12:19:22 PM
The UK is way behind on testing. The wider the gap between Ireland and the UK, the wider the gap between the DUP and SF.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/02/exclusive-systematic-failures-governments-pandemic-strategy/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 03, 2020, 12:23:27 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on April 03, 2020, 12:14:54 PM
I wouldn't have any issue with calling it out - but surely you've to offer a solution?

You can't shirk the department selection a few weeks beforehand and then go two footed into them in times of crisis without offering answers.

Personally I think Health should have been ring fenced beforehand.

Solution is to put more focus on testing and getting the PPE.  Isn't Randox down the road - isn't O'Neills making ppe gear.  Bloc Blinds in Derry somewhere are making visors etc.  That's only a few local outfits.  Crank up the effort here to get stuff.  Be inventive.  Companies are changing to make stuff.  Aid them whatever way possible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on April 03, 2020, 12:51:48 PM
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-nurses-cannot-legally-treat-covid-19-patients-without-protective-equipment-warns-rcn-39099841.html

Surely this will put the cat amongst the pigeons and light a fire under out politicians arses? They have known for months this was coming and why they haven't this sorted in beyond me. Yes there is a global shortage but lots of local firms are doing good things to try and help and the Executive need to be doing much more on this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on April 03, 2020, 12:58:07 PM
Industry is crying out to help on the PPE problem - is there a definitive list of what's required / what's been ordered / when what's ordered is due to arrive / where the gaps between what's ordered & what's needed now are & then industry can step in to make up the short fall!!!

Surely far too simplistic!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 03, 2020, 01:04:55 PM
Quote from: ONeill on April 03, 2020, 09:33:51 AM
Southerners wouldn't be as smart as us up here so I reckon LC would be a doddle.
😆😁😆😁

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 03, 2020, 01:07:48 PM
Years of DUP and SF under-funding the NHS and then not governing for 3 years has left us in a terrible place. They then shunned the health portfolio. Real leadership. Real integrity.
But SF base will love this confrontational MO'N. But people will die I hear you say? This party is comfortable with unnecessary deaths if they can strike a blow against Unionism.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 01:17:49 PM
I think the pressure is getting to everyone, especially the health minister, Foster and O'Neill. They are completely overwhelmed and getting information from everyone on what's the best thing to do!

It's a shambles and it's showing, I'd have to say that if Martin and Big Ian we're still in charge we'd have had a different response, but unfortunately we've two ministers that actually despise each other.
Never going to get agreement or a joined up approach.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 03, 2020, 01:18:27 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on April 03, 2020, 12:14:54 PM
I wouldn't have any issue with calling it out - but surely you've to offer a solution?

You can't shirk the department selection a few weeks beforehand and then go two footed into them in times of crisis without offering answers.

How do you know she hasn't?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on April 03, 2020, 01:18:34 PM
In a situation where it's pretty much everyman for himself in sourcing anything, some of the online chat is so far removed from reality it's unreal.  Reading in the Times today the US have been gazumping the French in acquiring shipping containers of medical goods due to leave Chinese ports!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on April 03, 2020, 01:21:16 PM
MON is not striking a blow against unionism, but calling out unionism's inability to detach themselves from the incompetencies of London.  Arlene and co. appeared to be quite happy to let people in NI go to the grave rather than implement guidance that would have looked to align the whole island as one entity in our defence to this.  It really is total and absolute nuts!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on April 03, 2020, 01:23:43 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2020, 01:18:27 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on April 03, 2020, 12:14:54 PM
I wouldn't have any issue with calling it out - but surely you've to offer a solution?

You can't shirk the department selection a few weeks beforehand and then go two footed into them in times of crisis without offering answers.

How do you know she hasn't?

If she's quick enough to call out it's wrong I'd think if she's a solution she'd be delighted to shout what that is... peak oneupmanship!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 03, 2020, 01:30:00 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/racing/cheltenham-faces-criticism-after-racegoers-suffer-covid-19-symptoms-1.4219458
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 03, 2020, 01:55:08 PM
It was criminal of the Brits and the arrogant horse racing industry to have let that go ahead.
How many cases here as a result of it I wonder?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 03, 2020, 02:00:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2020, 01:55:08 PM
It was criminal of the Brits and the arrogant horse racing industry to have let that go ahead.
How many cases here as a result of it I wonder?
It should never have went ahead. But lets take some personal responsibility as well, The amount of Irish I know that went across given the circumstances was absolutely staggering. Levels of stupid that I can't grasp.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 03, 2020, 02:13:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 01:17:49 PM
I think the pressure is getting to everyone, especially the health minister, Foster and O'Neill. They are completely overwhelmed and getting information from everyone on what's the best thing to do!

It's a shambles and it's showing, I'd have to say that if Martin and Big Ian we're still in charge we'd have had a different response, but unfortunately we've two ministers that actually despise each other.
Never going to get agreement or a joined up approach.

The joined up approach should have been based, like foot and mouth,  on an All Ireland approach.  Simple as.  We are on an island. 

FFS, even Jamie Bryson agreed with this approach a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on April 03, 2020, 02:16:04 PM
Was reading that roughly 2 million people used the London underground daily for weeks before, during and after Cheltenham.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rich Ricci on April 03, 2020, 02:17:27 PM
 684 Uk deaths. The death toll has doubled from around 1800 to 3600 in 3 days.

*12 in the 6 counties, 48 total.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 03, 2020, 02:18:38 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on April 03, 2020, 01:21:16 PM
MON is not striking a blow against unionism, but calling out unionism's inability to detach themselves from the incompetencies of London.  Arlene and co. appeared to be quite happy to let people in NI go to the grave rather than implement guidance that would have looked to align the whole island as one entity in our defence to this.  It really is total and absolute nuts!

Agree - pith the SDLP, Alliance and Greens etc. wouldn't start supporting O'Neill.  She may be inept but she's doing the right thing, as she did a few weeks ago re: closing the schools.  She was coreect then and is correct now.

Other political parties should back her instead of trying to score pokitical points.

By the way, anybody on here disagree with what she said?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 03, 2020, 02:24:43 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 03, 2020, 02:00:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2020, 01:55:08 PM
It was criminal of the Brits and the arrogant horse racing industry to have let that go ahead.
How many cases here as a result of it I wonder?
It should never have went ahead. But lets take some personal responsibility as well, The amount of Irish I know that went across given the circumstances was absolutely staggering. Levels of stupid that I can't grasp.

Agree - can't blame them.  Folks must take personal responsibility.

Poor decision.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armamike on April 03, 2020, 02:26:40 PM
As John O'Dowd would say, shower of bastards.  In the midst of a pandemic our politicians as usual can't agree what day of the week it is, and are maybe even surpassing their usual levels of ineptitude.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on April 03, 2020, 02:38:14 PM
If there's any truth in the latest BBC reports that no PPE was promised to the north as part of a "joint" purchase by Conor Murphy - it would undermine MON statements & just reinforce the shit show that's going on at local & national government level!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 03, 2020, 02:52:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2020, 01:07:48 PM
Years of DUP and SF under-funding the NHS and then not governing for 3 years has left us in a terrible place. They then shunned the health portfolio. Real leadership. Real integrity.
But SF base will love this confrontational MO'N. But people will die I hear you say? This party is comfortable with unnecessary deaths if they can strike a blow against Unionism.

Agreed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 03, 2020, 02:54:18 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 03, 2020, 02:00:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2020, 01:55:08 PM
It was criminal of the Brits and the arrogant horse racing industry to have let that go ahead.
How many cases here as a result of it I wonder?
It should never have went ahead. But lets take some personal responsibility as well, The amount of Irish I know that went across given the circumstances was absolutely staggering. Levels of stupid that I can't grasp.

I know / Know of quite a few that went and there was no self isolation when they were steamed that whole weekend too after flying home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 03, 2020, 03:01:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 03, 2020, 02:52:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2020, 01:07:48 PM
Years of DUP and SF under-funding the NHS and then not governing for 3 years has left us in a terrible place. They then shunned the health portfolio. Real leadership. Real integrity.
But SF base will love this confrontational MO'N. But people will die I hear you say? This party is comfortable with unnecessary deaths if they can strike a blow against Unionism.

Agreed

I genuinely don't believe that is the case here. I am not a big fan of SF but have seen enough posts from you two to suggest you hate them and that's fair enough but I just feel that, and I rarely feel this about any politician, she is actually being genuine here and not point scoring.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 03, 2020, 03:17:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2020, 01:55:08 PM
It was criminal of the Brits and the arrogant horse racing industry to have let that go ahead.
How many cases here as a result of it I wonder?

Around the same time

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2020/0402/1128196-liverpool-virus-surge-could-be-linked-to-atletico-game/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 03, 2020, 03:28:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 03, 2020, 03:17:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2020, 01:55:08 PM
It was criminal of the Brits and the arrogant horse racing industry to have let that go ahead.
How many cases here as a result of it I wonder?

Around the same time

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2020/0402/1128196-liverpool-virus-surge-could-be-linked-to-atletico-game/

They are saying the same about the Atalanta / Valencia Champions league match was the catalyst for the wipeout in Bergamo,Italy.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 03, 2020, 03:35:23 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 03, 2020, 03:01:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 03, 2020, 02:52:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2020, 01:07:48 PM
Years of DUP and SF under-funding the NHS and then not governing for 3 years has left us in a terrible place. They then shunned the health portfolio. Real leadership. Real integrity.
But SF base will love this confrontational MO'N. But people will die I hear you say? This party is comfortable with unnecessary deaths if they can strike a blow against Unionism.

Agreed

I genuinely don't believe that is the case here. I am not a big fan of SF but have seen enough posts from you two to suggest you hate them and that's fair enough but I just feel that, and I rarely feel this about any politician, she is actually being genuine here and not point scoring.

You don't believe that underfunding the NHS and keeping government locked up hasn't hampered the Coronavirus response?
It's debatable as to her reasons for grandstanding now I'll concede that and they may be genuine but whatever about that, this last 8 or more years of firstly mis-rule and lately 3 years of no-rule has left our Health Service the worst of all 4 regions. That cannot be disputed. MO'N and others should take responsibility.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on April 03, 2020, 03:41:01 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/it-s-sinn-f%C3%A9in-against-the-rest-ni-executive-in-conflict-over-coronavirus-1.4218130
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 03, 2020, 03:45:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2020, 03:35:23 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 03, 2020, 03:01:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 03, 2020, 02:52:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2020, 01:07:48 PM
Years of DUP and SF under-funding the NHS and then not governing for 3 years has left us in a terrible place. They then shunned the health portfolio. Real leadership. Real integrity.
But SF base will love this confrontational MO'N. But people will die I hear you say? This party is comfortable with unnecessary deaths if they can strike a blow against Unionism.

Agreed

I genuinely don't believe that is the case here. I am not a big fan of SF but have seen enough posts from you two to suggest you hate them and that's fair enough but I just feel that, and I rarely feel this about any politician, she is actually being genuine here and not point scoring.

You don't believe that underfunding the NHS and keeping government locked up hasn't hampered the Coronavirus response?
It's debatable as to her reasons for grandstanding now I'll concede that and they may be genuine but whatever about that, this last 8 or more years of firstly mis-rule and lately 3 years of no-rule has left our Health Service the worst of all 4 regions. That cannot be disputed. MO'N and others should take responsibility.

It certainly has but the blame for that lies at the door of George Osbourne.

IIRC around the christmas of the RHI scandal breaking, the SDLP and Alliance at the time were giving the Shinners grief for not pulling the plug on Arlene and the DUP. Then when they did it they're wrong too.

Can't have it both ways unless the memory is selective.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 03, 2020, 03:48:19 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 03, 2020, 03:01:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 03, 2020, 02:52:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2020, 01:07:48 PM
Years of DUP and SF under-funding the NHS and then not governing for 3 years has left us in a terrible place. They then shunned the health portfolio. Real leadership. Real integrity.
But SF base will love this confrontational MO'N. But people will die I hear you say? This party is comfortable with unnecessary deaths if they can strike a blow against Unionism.

Agreed

I genuinely don't believe that is the case here. I am not a big fan of SF but have seen enough posts from you two to suggest you hate them and that's fair enough but I just feel that, and I rarely feel this about any politician, she is actually being genuine here and not point scoring.

So she conveniently forgot to mention Conor Murphy shambles last night. Naw it's defs point scoring
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 03, 2020, 03:53:49 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 03, 2020, 02:00:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2020, 01:55:08 PM
It was criminal of the Brits and the arrogant horse racing industry to have let that go ahead.
How many cases here as a result of it I wonder?
It should never have went ahead. But lets take some personal responsibility as well, The amount of Irish I know that went across given the circumstances was absolutely staggering. Levels of stupid that I can't grasp.
Agreed 100%.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 03, 2020, 03:56:45 PM
And a bit of positive news from our fair County

https://www.shannonside.ie/news/local/roscommon/82-roscommon-man-survived-coronavirus/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 03:57:00 PM
I terms of population is Scotland doing better than Ireland? And if so why?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 03, 2020, 03:57:17 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 03, 2020, 02:54:18 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 03, 2020, 02:00:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2020, 01:55:08 PM
It was criminal of the Brits and the arrogant horse racing industry to have let that go ahead.
How many cases here as a result of it I wonder?
It should never have went ahead. But lets take some personal responsibility as well, The amount of Irish I know that went across given the circumstances was absolutely staggering. Levels of stupid that I can't grasp.

I know / Know of quite a few that went and there was no self isolation when they were steamed that whole weekend too after flying home.

Including Joe Brolly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 03, 2020, 04:08:30 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 03, 2020, 02:54:18 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 03, 2020, 02:00:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 03, 2020, 01:55:08 PM
It was criminal of the Brits and the arrogant horse racing industry to have let that go ahead.
How many cases here as a result of it I wonder?
It should never have went ahead. But lets take some personal responsibility as well, The amount of Irish I know that went across given the circumstances was absolutely staggering. Levels of stupid that I can't grasp.

I know / Know of quite a few that went and there was no self isolation when they were steamed that whole weekend too after flying home.

I think they misunderstood that while putting alchohol on your hands might help stop getting the virus, putting it in your liver does not.

684 in UK today, likely higher than Spain or Italy (where things are levelling off). big price for delay.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 03, 2020, 04:17:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 03:57:00 PM
I terms of population is Scotland doing better than Ireland? And if so why?

No, they are not doing better, they just weren't reporting all the deaths, there were 126 yesterday, compared to 98 in the ROI. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 03, 2020, 04:22:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 03:57:00 PM
I terms of population is Scotland doing better that Ireland? And if so why?

1. Deep fried Mars bars
2. Scotland is united
3. Shortbread
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dabh on April 03, 2020, 04:28:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2020, 04:17:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 03:57:00 PM
I terms of population is Scotland doing better than Ireland? And if so why?

No, they are not doing better, they just weren't reporting all the deaths, there were 126 yesterday, compared to 98 in the ROI.

Up to 172 today
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omagh_gael on April 03, 2020, 04:46:01 PM
Some pretty depressing reading here lads

https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/1246017990304432128?s=19

Its looking more and more likely that this will impact all our lives in a much greater way than most comprehend.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 03, 2020, 04:52:34 PM
There's months in this yet. Months.

I don't think there is a complete understanding of how people are catching this at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 05:19:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2020, 04:17:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 03:57:00 PM
I terms of population is Scotland doing better than Ireland? And if so why?

No, they are not doing better, they just weren't reporting all the deaths, there were 126 yesterday, compared to 98 in the ROI.

Weren't reporting deaths? Did they come about and say that? 5.5 million living there
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 03, 2020, 05:23:45 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 03, 2020, 04:52:34 PM
There's months in this yet. Months.

I don't think there is a complete understanding of how people are catching this at all.

Cannot comment on how accurate it is. Things are so political in the states that I'm not sure I'd believe much coming out of there without verification elsewhere.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/02/health/aerosol-coronavirus-spread-white-house-letter/index.html

QuoteA prestigious scientific panel told the White House Wednesday night that research shows coronavirus can be spread not just by sneezes or coughs, but also just by talking, or possibly even just breathing.


"While the current [coronavirus] specific research is limited, the results of available studies are consistent with aerosolization of virus from normal breathing," according to the letter, written by Dr. Harvey Fineberg, chairman of a committee with the National Academy of Sciences.

Fineberg told CNN that he will wear start wearing a mask when he goes to the grocery store.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 03, 2020, 05:37:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 03, 2020, 04:52:34 PM
There's months in this yet. Months.

I don't think there is a complete understanding of how people are catching this at all.

The penny hasn't dropped for some yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on April 03, 2020, 05:53:36 PM
Sadly 22 more deaths in ROI today, bringing total to 120, 424 new cases confirmed 4,273 in total
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: the goal was on on April 03, 2020, 06:31:59 PM
until vaccine becomes widespread shut downs and isolation is the only preventative measure (medicine). They'll be no mass gathering this year unfortunately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 03, 2020, 06:55:32 PM
I wonder how well our civilization is going to withstand this. Will countries like the UK stay in one piece? Will the EU stay together? Will central banks be tolerant of the debt that builds up and refrain from "punishing" countries that run it up? Will the US wake the hell up and hold a constitutional convention to fix its shortcomings or will it go on with its delusions of being the world's best country at everything? Will manufacturing industry be more distributed rather than everyone relying on China to make everything?

What kind of a world are we looking at on the other side of this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 06:58:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 03, 2020, 06:55:32 PM
I wonder how well our civilization is going to withstand this. Will countries like the UK stay in one piece? Will the EU stay together? Will central banks be tolerant of the debt that builds up and refrain from "punishing" countries that run it up? Will the US wake the hell up and hold a constitutional convention to fix its shortcomings or will it go on with its delusions of being the world's best country at everything? Will manufacturing industry be more distributed rather than everyone relying on China to make everything?

What kind of a world are we looking at on the other side of this?

Nothing will change in the long run, hopefully they'll put more money into the NHS , prevention and being able to shut things down quicker
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 03, 2020, 07:15:37 PM
I think plenty will change. There is a recession coming like never before and then who the hell knows when this will clear and people can have some sense of normality. Normal has a new barometer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 03, 2020, 07:17:49 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 03, 2020, 04:52:34 PM
There's months in this yet. Months.

I don't think there is a complete understanding of how people are catching this at all.

The thing that beat Singapore's efforts was the transmission before people became symptomatic. From SARS experience they deployed temperature testing, but this pox is transmitted before you have a temperature, if you ever get a temperature.  This makes it is very difficult.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 08:25:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 03, 2020, 07:15:37 PM
I think plenty will change. There is a recession coming like never before and then who the hell knows when this will clear and people can have some sense of normality. Normal has a new barometer.

Struggling to remember no recessions!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dec on April 03, 2020, 08:26:21 PM
I heard today about someone I know through my running club here in New York has died of Covid. 51 years old, no underlying health conditions and he finished his 83rd marathon last November. His cousin posted about his death on Facebook, he was diagnosed but seemed to be recovering but then this.

"This week started off well, still feeling like he was slowly recovering. But Wednesday was a sudden setback, and he spent most of the day in bed. By 4:30am yesterday he was in the ER with some breathing issues. 13 hours later we lost him."

I ran with him quite a few times, he ran around the same middle of the pack pace that I did and as over the last few years he was running multiple marathons a year he was always in shape. I have been working from home for the past 2 weeks so had virtually no chance to pick up anything but in the back of my mind was "Well even if I catch it, it's only really bad for the over 65s". I guess I'll stop thinking that now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 03, 2020, 08:29:57 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2020, 03:45:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2020, 03:35:23 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 03, 2020, 03:01:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 03, 2020, 02:52:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2020, 01:07:48 PM
Years of DUP and SF under-funding the NHS and then not governing for 3 years has left us in a terrible place. They then shunned the health portfolio. Real leadership. Real integrity.
But SF base will love this confrontational MO'N. But people will die I hear you say? This party is comfortable with unnecessary deaths if they can strike a blow against Unionism.

Agreed

I genuinely don't believe that is the case here. I am not a big fan of SF but have seen enough posts from you two to suggest you hate them and that's fair enough but I just feel that, and I rarely feel this about any politician, she is actually being genuine here and not point scoring.

You don't believe that underfunding the NHS and keeping government locked up hasn't hampered the Coronavirus response?
It's debatable as to her reasons for grandstanding now I'll concede that and they may be genuine but whatever about that, this last 8 or more years of firstly mis-rule and lately 3 years of no-rule has left our Health Service the worst of all 4 regions. That cannot be disputed. MO'N and others should take responsibility.

It certainly has but the blame for that lies at the door of George Osbourne.

IIRC around the christmas of the RHI scandal breaking, the SDLP and Alliance at the time were giving the Shinners grief for not pulling the plug on Arlene and the DUP. Then when they did it they're wrong too.

Can't have it both ways unless the memory is selective.

No. No it doesn't. It was the executive who spent / mis spent the money. Don't believe the SF line! There was plenty of money to safely staff the NHS. There's no extra money now and yet they committed to pay parity! The money was skimmed off onto SF and DUP SIF schemes. Back doored into party loyalists pockets.
f**k sake people need to wake up!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on April 03, 2020, 08:48:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2020, 08:29:57 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 03, 2020, 03:45:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2020, 03:35:23 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 03, 2020, 03:01:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 03, 2020, 02:52:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 03, 2020, 01:07:48 PM
Years of DUP and SF under-funding the NHS and then not governing for 3 years has left us in a terrible place. They then shunned the health portfolio. Real leadership. Real integrity.
But SF base will love this confrontational MO'N. But people will die I hear you say? This party is comfortable with unnecessary deaths if they can strike a blow against Unionism.

Agreed

I genuinely don't believe that is the case here. I am not a big fan of SF but have seen enough posts from you two to suggest you hate them and that's fair enough but I just feel that, and I rarely feel this about any politician, she is actually being genuine here and not point scoring.

You don't believe that underfunding the NHS and keeping government locked up hasn't hampered the Coronavirus response?
It's debatable as to her reasons for grandstanding now I'll concede that and they may be genuine but whatever about that, this last 8 or more years of firstly mis-rule and lately 3 years of no-rule has left our Health Service the worst of all 4 regions. That cannot be disputed. MO'N and others should take responsibility.

It certainly has but the blame for that lies at the door of George Osbourne.

IIRC around the christmas of the RHI scandal breaking, the SDLP and Alliance at the time were giving the Shinners grief for not pulling the plug on Arlene and the DUP. Then when they did it they're wrong too.

Can't have it both ways unless the memory is selective.

No. No it doesn't. It was the executive who spent / mis spent the money. Don't believe the SF line! There was plenty of money to safely staff the NHS. There's no extra money now and yet they committed to pay parity! The money was skimmed off onto SF and DUP SIF schemes. Back doored into party loyalists pockets.
f**k sake people need to wake up!
Never mind the abuse of the RHI scheme because Westminister Govt. Was paying . I'm sure it is red flagged in Downing St.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: manfromdelmonte on April 03, 2020, 09:47:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2020, 07:17:49 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 03, 2020, 04:52:34 PM
There's months in this yet. Months.

I don't think there is a complete understanding of how people are catching this at all.

The thing that beat Singapore's efforts was the transmission before people became symptomatic. From SARS experience they deployed temperature testing, but this pox is transmitted before you have a temperature, if you ever get a temperature.  This makes it is very difficult.
the clusters in the nursing homes down south are the main place people are dying without even getting near a hospital or ICU

there must be agency staff, or something transmitting the virus into the various nursing homes?
or maybe its the fact that private nursing homes generally cut corners on most aspects of staffing and protective gear and so there aren't the correct protocols in place
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 09:58:40 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 03, 2020, 09:47:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2020, 07:17:49 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 03, 2020, 04:52:34 PM
There's months in this yet. Months.

I don't think there is a complete understanding of how people are catching this at all.

The thing that beat Singapore's efforts was the transmission before people became symptomatic. From SARS experience they deployed temperature testing, but this pox is transmitted before you have a temperature, if you ever get a temperature.  This makes it is very difficult.
the clusters in the nursing homes down south are the main place people are dying without even getting near a hospital or ICU

there must be agency staff, or something transmitting the virus into the various nursing homes?
or maybe its the fact that private nursing homes generally cut corners on most aspects of staffing and protective gear and so there aren't the correct protocols in place
So you're looking to blame private nursing home owners? WTF

Who the f**k knew a disastrous pandemic like this would ravage countries like this?

They would meet the requirements set by the government so, who's at fault?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 03, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 09:58:40 PM
So you're looking to blame private nursing home owners? WTF

Who the f**k knew a disastrous pandemic like this would ravage countries like this?

They would meet the requirements set by the government so, who's at fault?

A pandemic was always likely to occur at some stage. Governments, nursing home owners, etc just hoped it wouldn't be on their watch.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 10:29:58 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 09:58:40 PM
So you're looking to blame private nursing home owners? WTF

Who the f**k knew a disastrous pandemic like this would ravage countries like this?

They would meet the requirements set by the government so, who's at fault?

A pandemic was always likely to occur at some stage. Governments, nursing home owners, etc just hoped it wouldn't be on their watch.

So if it was always going to happen then why were they not prepared? Last one was 1918, the worst thing about this is the experts that f**king know everything, like the plonker who said you should have bigger profit margins and saved all you're pennies !

We all had that mate growing up, who thought he knew everything, not you mate now of course, cause they were dicks!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyrone08 on April 03, 2020, 11:48:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 10:29:58 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 09:58:40 PM
So you're looking to blame private nursing home owners? WTF

Who the f**k knew a disastrous pandemic like this would ravage countries like this?

They would meet the requirements set by the government so, who's at fault?

A pandemic was always likely to occur at some stage. Governments, nursing home owners, etc just hoped it wouldn't be on their watch.

So if it was always going to happen then why were they not prepared? Last one was 1918, the worst thing about this is the experts that f**king know everything, like the plonker who said you should have bigger profit margins and saved all you're pennies !

We all had that mate growing up, who thought he knew everything, not you mate now of course, cause they were dicks!

Another pandemic was always going to occur and it will again in future. Christ Bill Gates gave a famous speech 3 years ago warning that the next human crisis isn't war but disease. The issue is that in the 21 century a human can within 24 hours be at the other side of the world while having contacted 1000s of people during that time frame.

Every major government in the world knew this but the issue is that to solve the problem countries would have to work together, which history has shown doesn't happen too often. You can barely get politicians in the same country agreeing on a strategy never mind entire countries.

Hopefully the coronavirus can encourage governments across the global to work together in future when a virus breaks out again. As the next outbreak could be humanities last.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 11:50:56 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on April 03, 2020, 11:48:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 10:29:58 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 09:58:40 PM
So you're looking to blame private nursing home owners? WTF

Who the f**k knew a disastrous pandemic like this would ravage countries like this?

They would meet the requirements set by the government so, who's at fault?

A pandemic was always likely to occur at some stage. Governments, nursing home owners, etc just hoped it wouldn't be on their watch.

So if it was always going to happen then why were they not prepared? Last one was 1918, the worst thing about this is the experts that f**king know everything, like the plonker who said you should have bigger profit margins and saved all you're pennies !

We all had that mate growing up, who thought he knew everything, not you mate now of course, cause they were dicks!

Another pandemic was always going to occur and it will again in future. Christ Bill Gates gave a famous speech 3 years ago warning that the next human crisis isn't war but disease. The issue is that in the 21 century a human can within 24 hours be at the other side of the world while having contacted 1000s of people during that time frame.

Every major government in the world knew this but the issue is that to solve the problem countries would have to work together, which history has shown doesn't happen too often. You can barely get politicians in the same country agreeing on a strategy never mind entire countries.

Hopefully the coronavirus can encourage governments across the global to work together in future when a virus breaks out again. As the next outbreak could be humanities last.

So what's next? So that we can prepare better. The board will set us free
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Lar Naparka on April 04, 2020, 12:24:19 AM
Quote from: tyrone08 on April 03, 2020, 11:48:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 10:29:58 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 09:58:40 PM
So you're looking to blame private nursing home owners? WTF

Who the f**k knew a disastrous pandemic like this would ravage countries like this?

They would meet the requirements set by the government so, who's at fault?

A pandemic was always likely to occur at some stage. Governments, nursing home owners, etc just hoped it wouldn't be on their watch.

So if it was always going to happen then why were they not prepared? Last one was 1918, the worst thing about this is the experts that f**king know everything, like the plonker who said you should have bigger profit margins and saved all you're pennies !

We all had that mate growing up, who thought he knew everything, not you mate now of course, cause they were dicks!

Another pandemic was always going to occur and it will again in future. Christ Bill Gates gave a famous speech 3 years ago warning that the next human crisis isn't war but disease. The issue is that in the 21 century a human can within 24 hours be at the other side of the world while having contacted 1000s of people during that time frame.

Every major government in the world knew this but the issue is that to solve the problem countries would have to work together, which history has shown doesn't happen too often. You can barely get politicians in the same country agreeing on a strategy never mind entire countries.

Hopefully the coronavirus can encourage governments across the global to work together in future when a virus breaks out again. As the next outbreak could be humanities last.
Profound stuff indeed. I think you are bang on. Gates didn't get to where he is by being just a pretty face!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 04, 2020, 12:29:10 AM
Hopefully this pandemic might see the end of Anglo American neo liberalism mé féin capitalism and a more Co operative world and society to replace it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2020, 12:29:56 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 04, 2020, 12:24:19 AM
Quote from: tyrone08 on April 03, 2020, 11:48:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 10:29:58 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 09:58:40 PM
So you're looking to blame private nursing home owners? WTF

Who the f**k knew a disastrous pandemic like this would ravage countries like this?

They would meet the requirements set by the government so, who's at fault?

A pandemic was always likely to occur at some stage. Governments, nursing home owners, etc just hoped it wouldn't be on their watch.

So if it was always going to happen then why were they not prepared? Last one was 1918, the worst thing about this is the experts that f**king know everything, like the plonker who said you should have bigger profit margins and saved all you're pennies !

We all had that mate growing up, who thought he knew everything, not you mate now of course, cause they were dicks!

Another pandemic was always going to occur and it will again in future. Christ Bill Gates gave a famous speech 3 years ago warning that the next human crisis isn't war but disease. The issue is that in the 21 century a human can within 24 hours be at the other side of the world while having contacted 1000s of people during that time frame.

Every major government in the world knew this but the issue is that to solve the problem countries would have to work together, which history has shown doesn't happen too often. You can barely get politicians in the same country agreeing on a strategy never mind entire countries.

Hopefully the coronavirus can encourage governments across the global to work together in future when a virus breaks out again. As the next outbreak could be humanities last.
Profound stuff indeed. I think you are bang on. Gates didn't get to where he is by being just a pretty face!

Hopefully he'll put all his resources into finding a vaccine. He's plenty to use. Then after that can use some of it to stop world poverty.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bannside on April 04, 2020, 11:17:16 AM
Truer words have never been spoken Rossfan.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dubh driocht on April 04, 2020, 11:24:32 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 23, 2020, 08:32:56 AM
Can anyone actually confirm that Joe Brolly was at Cheltenham? If he was, it wouldn't make anything he's saying about the state of things wrong but it would make him an absolute hypocrite.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 04, 2020, 12:15:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 04, 2020, 12:29:10 AM
Hopefully this pandemic might see the end of Anglo American neo liberalism mé féin capitalism and a more Co operative world and society to replace it.

I think you might see the opposite as the US will look to be more self sufficient rather than being so reliant on China as can be seen by them gazumping a shipment of PPE meant for Germany.

I'd say most of the big economies may go the same way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on April 04, 2020, 12:20:00 PM
Tend to agree - numerous countries have already talked about the impact of the global supply chain & reliance on same.

Could be the death of globalisation!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on April 04, 2020, 12:52:20 PM
The cheapest option and the destruction of large scale  manufacturing for the benefit of shareholders and the elite had come back to bite us on the bum !
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 04, 2020, 12:53:34 PM
We'll still need to import bananas and oranges.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 04, 2020, 01:23:36 PM
Talk of the end of globalisation is nonsense. In the West, the sad matter of fact is that we want our nice things and we want them cheap or, at worst, affordable. That means coming from China.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 04, 2020, 02:41:45 PM
Another record high in deaths in the UK today (708) the experts expect a 1000 per day next week. Looking across Europe Austria seem to be one of the first that's beginning to flatten curve after a widespread outbreak.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on April 04, 2020, 03:23:28 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 04, 2020, 01:23:36 PM
Talk of the end of globalisation is nonsense. In the West, the sad matter of fact is that we want our nice things and we want them cheap or, at worst, affordable. That means coming from China.

Where ironically the Chinese come to buy those goods as well - go figure!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 04, 2020, 03:33:06 PM
The Worldometers Covid (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)  site now has data on testing
sorted by tests per million

(https://i.ibb.co/NyJvgQw/covidtest.png) (https://ibb.co/ZMFjRty)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 04, 2020, 03:47:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 04, 2020, 12:29:10 AM
Hopefully this pandemic might see the end of Anglo American neo liberalism mé féin capitalism and a more Co operative world and society to replace it.
Such a system would benefit the BMW counties and could impact where Sam goes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 05, 2020, 04:47:33 AM
Quote from: tyrone08 on April 03, 2020, 11:48:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 10:29:58 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 03, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2020, 09:58:40 PM
So you're looking to blame private nursing home owners? WTF

Who the f**k knew a disastrous pandemic like this would ravage countries like this?

They would meet the requirements set by the government so, who's at fault?

A pandemic was always likely to occur at some stage. Governments, nursing home owners, etc just hoped it wouldn't be on their watch.

So if it was always going to happen then why were they not prepared? Last one was 1918, the worst thing about this is the experts that f**king know everything, like the plonker who said you should have bigger profit margins and saved all you're pennies !

We all had that mate growing up, who thought he knew everything, not you mate now of course, cause they were dicks!

Another pandemic was always going to occur and it will again in future. Christ Bill Gates gave a famous speech 3 years ago warning that the next human crisis isn't war but disease. The issue is that in the 21 century a human can within 24 hours be at the other side of the world while having contacted 1000s of people during that time frame.

Every major government in the world knew this but the issue is that to solve the problem countries would have to work together, which history has shown doesn't happen too often. You can barely get politicians in the same country agreeing on a strategy never mind entire countries.

Hopefully the coronavirus can encourage governments across the global to work together in future when a virus breaks out again. As the next outbreak could be humanities last.

The Montreal Protocol worked out pretty well. Phased out CFCs and saved the ozone layer.

The EU has done a pretty good job of keeping the peace in Europe for the last 50 years.

International cooperation can be done.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 05, 2020, 04:54:37 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on April 04, 2020, 12:20:00 PM
Tend to agree - numerous countries have already talked about the impact of the global supply chain & reliance on same.

Could be the death of globalisation!

In its present form, probably. I always thought the logical endgame of globalisation would be that manufacturing would go to China, China would evolve into a consumer economy more like the USA (which was beginning to happen), and manufacturing would then move on to the rest of the developing world (Africa et al). Those countries in turn evolve into consumer societies, after that everyone's living standards start to approach the same level, and manufacturing begins to disperse more evenly around the globe.

God knows what's going to happen now. My fear is a knee-jerk reaction, Trump style, to attempt to bring manufacturing home by brute force. One thing Trump has shown is that it's not that easy to do. He held a rally in some factory a few years ago blowing about how it was creating new American jobs, and a few weeks later it was all outsourced to Mexico. If people try to find a simple solution to all this it's going to bite them in the ass.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 05, 2020, 10:59:55 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ballsdotie/status/1246112727812186112

Just when you thought the country had suffered enough.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on April 05, 2020, 11:22:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 05, 2020, 10:59:55 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ballsdotie/status/1246112727812186112

Just when you thought the country had suffered enough.
Oh FFS, what a load of nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 05, 2020, 12:35:25 PM
I think I'll howl at the Moon instead.
Only 2 positives from this Virus are no Eurovision and no fkn Rugby.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 05, 2020, 12:46:54 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 05, 2020, 10:59:55 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ballsdotie/status/1246112727812186112

Just when you thought the country had suffered enough.

Must be a belated April's Fool.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on April 05, 2020, 12:58:54 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 05, 2020, 10:59:55 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ballsdotie/status/1246112727812186112

Just when you thought the country had suffered enough.

I thought we'd reached the lowest point with Ronan on Late Late
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: moysider on April 05, 2020, 03:49:37 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 05, 2020, 10:59:55 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ballsdotie/status/1246112727812186112

Just when you thought the country had suffered enough.

Can't happen surely - shoulder to shoulder no longer an option!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on April 05, 2020, 03:50:03 PM
Quote from: laoislad on April 05, 2020, 11:22:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 05, 2020, 10:59:55 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ballsdotie/status/1246112727812186112

Just when you thought the country had suffered enough.
Oh FFS, what a load of nonsense.

Not often we agree but....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Downtothewire on April 05, 2020, 04:23:44 PM
Quote from: GJL on April 05, 2020, 03:50:03 PM
Quote from: laoislad on April 05, 2020, 11:22:01 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 05, 2020, 10:59:55 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ballsdotie/status/1246112727812186112

Just when you thought the country had suffered enough.
Oh FFS, what a load of nonsense.

Not often we agree but....

Take it down from the mast, would me more appropriate
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 05, 2020, 05:34:33 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 05, 2020, 10:59:55 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ballsdotie/status/1246112727812186112

Just when you thought the country had suffered enough.
(https://i.ibb.co/Lzv05Ct/Screenshot-20200404-153547-2.png) (https://ibb.co/1fb069q)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 05, 2020, 05:38:18 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 05, 2020, 05:34:33 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 05, 2020, 10:59:55 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ballsdotie/status/1246112727812186112

Just when you thought the country had suffered enough.
(https://i.ibb.co/Lzv05Ct/Screenshot-20200404-153547-2.png) (https://ibb.co/1fb069q)

Committed to losing her job!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 05, 2020, 07:27:11 PM
390 new cases in the 26 and 21 deaths.
Something over 1,000 health workers tested positive. Around 900 people in Hospital with it.
As far as I recall 63 new cases in the 6 and 8 deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 05, 2020, 07:32:08 PM
214 people have now died from Coronavirus on the island of Ireland. Confirmed cases on the island of Ireland is at 6,083.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on April 05, 2020, 08:37:13 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 05, 2020, 07:32:08 PM
214 people have now died from Coronavirus on the island of Ireland. Confirmed cases on the island of Ireland is at 6,083.

214 deaths on this island and almost 5000 deaths in Britain ... over twice the rate across the water per head of population.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 05, 2020, 08:44:40 PM
My wife is starting in ward tomorrow cleared out for Covid 19 patients. Worried lads, but what can be done. Hopefully all the patients in there pull through, keep it going out there everyone with social distancing etc , it is going to be a long road.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 05, 2020, 08:49:21 PM
Exercising will be pulled very shortly ffs! Dicks keep meeting up!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 05, 2020, 08:56:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 05, 2020, 08:49:21 PM
Exercising will be pulled very shortly ffs! Dicks keep meeting up!

It's not just those people, it's all the twats who are testing everything as an opportunity to get that perfect shot for the 'gram.

"Oh look at my street, we all had a socially distant dance to keep everyone active. We had a socially distant cup of tea with everyone on the street too! It's all ok though, we started 2m apart at all times!"

Twats.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Orior on April 05, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Both our Taoiseach and british prime minister will be in hospital next week.

One is a leader, other a follower.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dubh driocht on April 05, 2020, 09:26:30 PM
Boris being admitted to hospital is not that surprising if you read today's papers but will knock the stuffing out of the UK Government.  He must regret his hypocrisy and belief that people should do as he says not as he does, a bit like Brolly.  He must be at risk of pneumonia which is not good.  Raab to take temporary charge? God help us all.  Leo stepping forward is a selfless gesture,  people will cynical but fair play.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on April 05, 2020, 09:30:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 05, 2020, 08:44:40 PM
My wife is starting in ward tomorrow cleared out for Covid 19 patients. Worried lads, but what can be done. Hopefully all the patients in there pull through, keep it going out there everyone with social distancing etc , it is going to be a long road.

Best wishes to you, your wife and family. You will all get through this. Your wife is a hero and so too are all the frontline staff facing this virus.

Stay safe everyone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on April 05, 2020, 09:38:55 PM
Boris admitted to hospital
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 05, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Both our Taoiseach and british prime minister will be in hospital next week.

One is a leader, other a follower.

Well I think An Taoiseach should concentrate on being An Taoiseach which is the most important job in Ireland at the moment. A PR gimmick of him re-listing as a doctor is just that, a popularity gimmick. BTW - he said he will be doing phone assessments so doubt he will be in a hospital.

As for Boris, unfortunately for him he is reaping what he sowed now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on April 05, 2020, 09:47:34 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 05, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Both our Taoiseach and british prime minister will be in hospital next week.

One is a leader, other a follower.

Well I think An Taoiseach should concentrate on being An Taoiseach which is the most important job in Ireland at the moment. A PR gimmick of him re-listing as a doctor is just that, a popularity gimmick. BTW - he said he will be doing phone assessments so doubt he will be in a hospital.

As for Boris, unfortunately for him he is reaping what he sowed now.

He brought Covid19 to the UK?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on April 05, 2020, 10:00:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 05, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Both our Taoiseach and british prime minister will be in hospital next week.

One is a leader, other a follower.

Well I think An Taoiseach should concentrate on being An Taoiseach which is the most important job in Ireland at the moment. A PR gimmick of him re-listing as a doctor is just that, a popularity gimmick. BTW - he said he will be doing phone assessments so doubt he will be in a hospital.

As for Boris, unfortunately for him he is reaping what he sowed now.

Every Health Centre in the country is crying out for more GP's to triage people by telephone. Even if he's doing it for a few hours a week. Fair play to him
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on April 05, 2020, 10:03:56 PM
A Four year old tiger at the Bronx Zoo tested positive for coronavirus after developing a dry cough, with other tigers and lions also showing symptoms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 10:04:25 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 05, 2020, 09:47:34 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 05, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Both our Taoiseach and british prime minister will be in hospital next week.

One is a leader, other a follower.

Well I think An Taoiseach should concentrate on being An Taoiseach which is the most important job in Ireland at the moment. A PR gimmick of him re-listing as a doctor is just that, a popularity gimmick. BTW - he said he will be doing phone assessments so doubt he will be in a hospital.

As for Boris, unfortunately for him he is reaping what he sowed now.

He brought Covid19 to the UK?

No he didnt, he scoffed at the danger of it and declared he would go into hospital and shake hands with infected people. Not so funny now Boris.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 05, 2020, 10:06:46 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 10:04:25 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 05, 2020, 09:47:34 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 05, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Both our Taoiseach and british prime minister will be in hospital next week.

One is a leader, other a follower.

Well I think An Taoiseach should concentrate on being An Taoiseach which is the most important job in Ireland at the moment. A PR gimmick of him re-listing as a doctor is just that, a popularity gimmick. BTW - he said he will be doing phone assessments so doubt he will be in a hospital.

As for Boris, unfortunately for him he is reaping what he sowed now.

He brought Covid19 to the UK?

No he didnt, he scoffed at the danger of it and declared he would go into hospital and shake hands with infected people. Not so funny now Boris.

Did he find it humorous?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 05, 2020, 10:09:07 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on April 05, 2020, 10:03:56 PM
A Four year old tiger at the Bronx Zoo tested positive for coronavirus after developing a dry cough, with other tigers and lions also showing symptoms.

That's cat.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 05, 2020, 10:00:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 05, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Both our Taoiseach and british prime minister will be in hospital next week.

One is a leader, other a follower.

Well I think An Taoiseach should concentrate on being An Taoiseach which is the most important job in Ireland at the moment. A PR gimmick of him re-listing as a doctor is just that, a popularity gimmick. BTW - he said he will be doing phone assessments so doubt he will be in a hospital.

As for Boris, unfortunately for him he is reaping what he sowed now.

Every Health Centre in the country is crying out for more GP's to triage people by telephone. Even if he's doing it for a few hours a week. Fair play to him

He didnt pay nurses what they deserved before this. Now he's going to be a doctor again. If he'd gone about it quietly then maybe you could give him benefit of the doubt but No every media outlet runs with it simultaneously this evening. He's a PR addict and he's hoping we are all too stupid to see it. He is probably right.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 05, 2020, 10:17:27 PM
Quote from: Dubh driocht on April 05, 2020, 09:26:30 PM
Boris being admitted to hospital is not that surprising if you read today's papers but will knock the stuffing out of the UK Government.  He must regret his hypocrisy and belief that people should do as he says not as he does, a bit like Brolly.  He must be at risk of pneumonia which is not good.  Raab to take temporary charge? God help us all.  Leo stepping forward is a selfless gesture,  people will cynical but fair play.

When I think of all the people that wouldn't have died if there was a competent PM - I cannot help but think "f**k him".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 10:21:07 PM
https://youtu.be/n3NAx3tsy-k

I take it he at least thought it amusing that he would shake hands with people. This stupidity hasn't aged well in a month
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 05, 2020, 10:25:34 PM
So you're happy that someone may die? Strange bunch
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on April 05, 2020, 10:29:41 PM
Dont have to be happy. At same time will shed no tears
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 10:31:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 05, 2020, 10:25:34 PM
So you're happy that someone may die? Strange bunch

Where did I say that. Your fair pedantic then you come up with this shit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cavan19 on April 05, 2020, 10:52:58 PM
We are lucky to have Leo as leader. Look at the UK and USA with incompetent fools in charge.  If the shinners had of ran a few more candidates in the GE we would be alot worse off than we are now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 05, 2020, 10:57:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 10:31:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 05, 2020, 10:25:34 PM
So you're happy that someone may die? Strange bunch

Where did I say that. Your fair pedantic then you come up with this shit.

Don't think you are special Itchy.....pedantic, sarcastic comments are a theme of his in this thread.

If only people would stop quoting him
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sandy Hill on April 05, 2020, 11:53:23 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 05, 2020, 10:17:27 PM
Quote from: Dubh driocht on April 05, 2020, 09:26:30 PM
Boris being admitted to hospital is not that surprising if you read today's papers but will knock the stuffing out of the UK Government.  He must regret his hypocrisy and belief that people should do as he says not as he does, a bit like Brolly.  He must be at risk of pneumonia which is not good.  Raab to take temporary charge? God help us all.  Leo stepping forward is a selfless gesture,  people will cynical but fair play.

When I think of all the people that wouldn't have died if there was a competent PM - I cannot help but think "f**k him".

Bad and all as Johnson is, he's an Einstein compared to Raab who chairs the Cabinet meeting tomorrow am; God bless us all!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mouview on April 06, 2020, 12:17:54 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 05, 2020, 10:00:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 05, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Both our Taoiseach and british prime minister will be in hospital next week.

One is a leader, other a follower.

Well I think An Taoiseach should concentrate on being An Taoiseach which is the most important job in Ireland at the moment. A PR gimmick of him re-listing as a doctor is just that, a popularity gimmick. BTW - he said he will be doing phone assessments so doubt he will be in a hospital.

As for Boris, unfortunately for him he is reaping what he sowed now.

Every Health Centre in the country is crying out for more GP's to triage people by telephone. Even if he's doing it for a few hours a week. Fair play to him

He didnt pay nurses what they deserved before this. Now he's going to be a doctor again. If he'd gone about it quietly then maybe you could give him benefit of the doubt but No every media outlet runs with it simultaneously this evening. He's a PR addict and he's hoping we are all too stupid to see it. He is probably right.

Maybe he did want to go about it quietly, but word got out anyway. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt for once?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mouview on April 06, 2020, 12:18:36 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 05, 2020, 09:38:55 PM
Boris admitted to hospital

Perhaps he's just lying about having it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2020, 01:59:44 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 05, 2020, 10:09:07 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on April 05, 2020, 10:03:56 PM
A Four year old tiger at the Bronx Zoo tested positive for coronavirus after developing a dry cough, with other tigers and lions also showing symptoms.

That's cat.
;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 07:22:22 AM
Quote from: Ambrose on April 05, 2020, 09:30:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 05, 2020, 08:44:40 PM
My wife is starting in ward tomorrow cleared out for Covid 19 patients. Worried lads, but what can be done. Hopefully all the patients in there pull through, keep it going out there everyone with social distancing etc , it is going to be a long road.

Best wishes to you, your wife and family. You will all get through this. Your wife is a hero and so too are all the frontline staff facing this virus.

Stay safe everyone.

Go raibh maith agat a chara

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: stiffler on April 06, 2020, 07:47:45 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 10:21:07 PM
https://youtu.be/n3NAx3tsy-k

I take it he at least thought it amusing that he would shake hands with people. This stupidity hasn't aged well in a month

Telling the nation that the scientific evidence showed that shaking hands as long as you wash them first was fine was reckless given what was known worldwide at the time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 08:07:05 AM
Quote from: mouview on April 06, 2020, 12:17:54 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 05, 2020, 10:00:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 05, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Both our Taoiseach and british prime minister will be in hospital next week.

One is a leader, other a follower.

Well I think An Taoiseach should concentrate on being An Taoiseach which is the most important job in Ireland at the moment. A PR gimmick of him re-listing as a doctor is just that, a popularity gimmick. BTW - he said he will be doing phone assessments so doubt he will be in a hospital.

As for Boris, unfortunately for him he is reaping what he sowed now.

Every Health Centre in the country is crying out for more GP's to triage people by telephone. Even if he's doing it for a few hours a week. Fair play to him

He didnt pay nurses what they deserved before this. Now he's going to be a doctor again. If he'd gone about it quietly then maybe you could give him benefit of the doubt but No every media outlet runs with it simultaneously this evening. He's a PR addict and he's hoping we are all too stupid to see it. He is probably right.

Maybe he did want to go about it quietly, but word got out anyway. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt for once?

Yeh right, word just got out. Have you ever followed Varadkar on twitter? After many of his tweets you will see obvious  bots chiming in telling him what a great job he is doing. You know them, they have zero followers and themselves follow 10-15 people. Media spin is a huge part of how he operates and in the southern media he has huge control over a lot of them.

Varadkar has been doing a decent job but this is just cynical manipulation of a terrible situation. He should be focusing solely on being An Taoiseach, dealing with this crisis and forming a government with his best buds in FF.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 08:58:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 08:07:05 AM
Quote from: mouview on April 06, 2020, 12:17:54 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 05, 2020, 10:00:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 05, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Both our Taoiseach and british prime minister will be in hospital next week.

One is a leader, other a follower.

Well I think An Taoiseach should concentrate on being An Taoiseach which is the most important job in Ireland at the moment. A PR gimmick of him re-listing as a doctor is just that, a popularity gimmick. BTW - he said he will be doing phone assessments so doubt he will be in a hospital.

As for Boris, unfortunately for him he is reaping what he sowed now.

Every Health Centre in the country is crying out for more GP's to triage people by telephone. Even if he's doing it for a few hours a week. Fair play to him

He didnt pay nurses what they deserved before this. Now he's going to be a doctor again. If he'd gone about it quietly then maybe you could give him benefit of the doubt but No every media outlet runs with it simultaneously this evening. He's a PR addict and he's hoping we are all too stupid to see it. He is probably right.

Maybe he did want to go about it quietly, but word got out anyway. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt for once?

Yeh right, word just got out. Have you ever followed Varadkar on twitter? After many of his tweets you will see obvious  bots chiming in telling him what a great job he is doing. You know them, they have zero followers and themselves follow 10-15 people. Media spin is a huge part of how he operates and in the southern media he has huge control over a lot of them.

Varadkar has been doing a decent job but this is just cynical manipulation of a terrible situation. He should be focusing solely on being An Taoiseach, dealing with this crisis and forming a government with his best buds in FF.

He has learnt quite a lot from Sinn Féin to be honest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 09:15:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 08:58:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 08:07:05 AM
Quote from: mouview on April 06, 2020, 12:17:54 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 05, 2020, 10:00:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 05, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Both our Taoiseach and british prime minister will be in hospital next week.

One is a leader, other a follower.

Well I think An Taoiseach should concentrate on being An Taoiseach which is the most important job in Ireland at the moment. A PR gimmick of him re-listing as a doctor is just that, a popularity gimmick. BTW - he said he will be doing phone assessments so doubt he will be in a hospital.

As for Boris, unfortunately for him he is reaping what he sowed now.

Every Health Centre in the country is crying out for more GP's to triage people by telephone. Even if he's doing it for a few hours a week. Fair play to him

He didnt pay nurses what they deserved before this. Now he's going to be a doctor again. If he'd gone about it quietly then maybe you could give him benefit of the doubt but No every media outlet runs with it simultaneously this evening. He's a PR addict and he's hoping we are all too stupid to see it. He is probably right.

Maybe he did want to go about it quietly, but word got out anyway. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt for once?

Yeh right, word just got out. Have you ever followed Varadkar on twitter? After many of his tweets you will see obvious  bots chiming in telling him what a great job he is doing. You know them, they have zero followers and themselves follow 10-15 people. Media spin is a huge part of how he operates and in the southern media he has huge control over a lot of them.

Varadkar has been doing a decent job but this is just cynical manipulation of a terrible situation. He should be focusing solely on being An Taoiseach, dealing with this crisis and forming a government with his best buds in FF.

He has learnt quite a lot from Sinn Féin to be honest.

Regarding what, bots? Plus, I am not sure when SF had complete control over the Southern Media so maybe you could explain that too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:22:13 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 09:15:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 08:58:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 08:07:05 AM
Quote from: mouview on April 06, 2020, 12:17:54 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 05, 2020, 10:00:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 05, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Both our Taoiseach and british prime minister will be in hospital next week.

One is a leader, other a follower.

Well I think An Taoiseach should concentrate on being An Taoiseach which is the most important job in Ireland at the moment. A PR gimmick of him re-listing as a doctor is just that, a popularity gimmick. BTW - he said he will be doing phone assessments so doubt he will be in a hospital.

As for Boris, unfortunately for him he is reaping what he sowed now.

Every Health Centre in the country is crying out for more GP's to triage people by telephone. Even if he's doing it for a few hours a week. Fair play to him

He didnt pay nurses what they deserved before this. Now he's going to be a doctor again. If he'd gone about it quietly then maybe you could give him benefit of the doubt but No every media outlet runs with it simultaneously this evening. He's a PR addict and he's hoping we are all too stupid to see it. He is probably right.

Maybe he did want to go about it quietly, but word got out anyway. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt for once?

Yeh right, word just got out. Have you ever followed Varadkar on twitter? After many of his tweets you will see obvious  bots chiming in telling him what a great job he is doing. You know them, they have zero followers and themselves follow 10-15 people. Media spin is a huge part of how he operates and in the southern media he has huge control over a lot of them.

Varadkar has been doing a decent job but this is just cynical manipulation of a terrible situation. He should be focusing solely on being An Taoiseach, dealing with this crisis and forming a government with his best buds in FF.

He has learnt quite a lot from Sinn Féin to be honest.

Regarding what, bots? Plus, I am not sure when SF had complete control over the Southern Media so maybe you could explain that too.

Twitter a chara
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 06, 2020, 09:49:49 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 05, 2020, 08:44:40 PM
My wife is starting in ward tomorrow cleared out for Covid 19 patients. Worried lads, but what can be done. Hopefully all the patients in there pull through, keep it going out there everyone with social distancing etc , it is going to be a long road.

My wife started back on the Hospital Wards last week having been redeployed from her role. She's really worried as well. Especially after the death of those Nurses in England. We've a young family as well. It's trying times.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 10:05:20 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 06, 2020, 09:49:49 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 05, 2020, 08:44:40 PM
My wife is starting in ward tomorrow cleared out for Covid 19 patients. Worried lads, but what can be done. Hopefully all the patients in there pull through, keep it going out there everyone with social distancing etc , it is going to be a long road.

My wife started back on the Hospital Wards last week having been redeployed from her role. She's really worried as well. Especially after the death of those Nurses in England. We've a young family as well. It's trying times.

I think the quality of the PPE will be the big challenge, and the numbers/rate coming in too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on April 06, 2020, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 09:15:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 08:58:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 08:07:05 AM
Quote from: mouview on April 06, 2020, 12:17:54 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 05, 2020, 10:00:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 05, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Both our Taoiseach and british prime minister will be in hospital next week.

One is a leader, other a follower.

Well I think An Taoiseach should concentrate on being An Taoiseach which is the most important job in Ireland at the moment. A PR gimmick of him re-listing as a doctor is just that, a popularity gimmick. BTW - he said he will be doing phone assessments so doubt he will be in a hospital.

As for Boris, unfortunately for him he is reaping what he sowed now.

Every Health Centre in the country is crying out for more GP's to triage people by telephone. Even if he's doing it for a few hours a week. Fair play to him

He didnt pay nurses what they deserved before this. Now he's going to be a doctor again. If he'd gone about it quietly then maybe you could give him benefit of the doubt but No every media outlet runs with it simultaneously this evening. He's a PR addict and he's hoping we are all too stupid to see it. He is probably right.

Maybe he did want to go about it quietly, but word got out anyway. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt for once?

Yeh right, word just got out. Have you ever followed Varadkar on twitter? After many of his tweets you will see obvious  bots chiming in telling him what a great job he is doing. You know them, they have zero followers and themselves follow 10-15 people. Media spin is a huge part of how he operates and in the southern media he has huge control over a lot of them.

Varadkar has been doing a decent job but this is just cynical manipulation of a terrible situation. He should be focusing solely on being An Taoiseach, dealing with this crisis and forming a government with his best buds in FF.

He has learnt quite a lot from Sinn Féin to be honest.

Regarding what, bots? Plus, I am not sure when SF had complete control over the Southern Media so maybe you could explain that too.
He's a long long way to go before he can match SF on their social media.

And you haven't read much of the Irish Times over the last few years if you think Fine Gael controls them!!
Just because the Times thinks there's still a stench over many in SF, doesnt mean FG put them up to it. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 06, 2020, 12:05:24 PM
An Taoiseach has no real job in these Caretaker and Pandemic days.
There are no major policy decisions, no major future plans or strategies to be developed, no EU summits, no foreign trade missions etc.
Anything a senior Civil Servant can't do will be signed or approved by the relevant Minister.
So if he has medical qualifications let him at a bit of doctoring.

Meanwhile 500 Private Hospital Consultants concerned that their private patients will suffer from them being "Nationalised".
Fair play to them for not mentioning their loss of income from said patients.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on April 06, 2020, 12:24:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 06, 2020, 12:05:24 PM
An Taoiseach has no real job in these Caretaker and Pandemic days.
There are no major policy decisions, no major future plans or strategies to be developed, no EU summits, no foreign trade missions etc.
Anything a senior Civil Servant can't do will be signed or approved by the relevant Minister.
So if he has medical qualifications let him at a bit of doctoring.

Meanwhile 500 Private Hospital Consultants concerned that their private patients will suffer from them being "Nationalised".
Fair play to them for not mentioning their loss of income from said patients.
I've no love for FG but to be fair most would feel that Leo has been statesmanlike in his approach to date, not least by the reassurance of his calm , controlled and empathetic manner. However, I feel that a one day a week contribution from a doctor who hasn't been registered for 7 years isn't going to make a significant difference to the health service effort. As Taoiseach, He should be totally focussed on areas where he must make an impact: Securing ppe for health workers,cementing policies to prevent spread , demanding/procuring the very best epidemiological advice and treatment , and securing the economy and welfare of the population as a whole , so that we exit this crisis as well as possible. The medical profession can survive without Leo's one day a week, the country needs him focussed on where he is best placed to make an impact. If he was using this as a PR exercise , it's unlikely to impress for the reasons highlighted above. Though, It comes across as gimmicky, I wouldn't be too negative about it, given his overall performance to date.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 12:28:36 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 06, 2020, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 09:15:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 08:58:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 08:07:05 AM
Quote from: mouview on April 06, 2020, 12:17:54 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 05, 2020, 10:00:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 05, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Both our Taoiseach and british prime minister will be in hospital next week.

One is a leader, other a follower.

Well I think An Taoiseach should concentrate on being An Taoiseach which is the most important job in Ireland at the moment. A PR gimmick of him re-listing as a doctor is just that, a popularity gimmick. BTW - he said he will be doing phone assessments so doubt he will be in a hospital.

As for Boris, unfortunately for him he is reaping what he sowed now.

Every Health Centre in the country is crying out for more GP's to triage people by telephone. Even if he's doing it for a few hours a week. Fair play to him

He didnt pay nurses what they deserved before this. Now he's going to be a doctor again. If he'd gone about it quietly then maybe you could give him benefit of the doubt but No every media outlet runs with it simultaneously this evening. He's a PR addict and he's hoping we are all too stupid to see it. He is probably right.

Maybe he did want to go about it quietly, but word got out anyway. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt for once?

Yeh right, word just got out. Have you ever followed Varadkar on twitter? After many of his tweets you will see obvious  bots chiming in telling him what a great job he is doing. You know them, they have zero followers and themselves follow 10-15 people. Media spin is a huge part of how he operates and in the southern media he has huge control over a lot of them.

Varadkar has been doing a decent job but this is just cynical manipulation of a terrible situation. He should be focusing solely on being An Taoiseach, dealing with this crisis and forming a government with his best buds in FF.

He has learnt quite a lot from Sinn Féin to be honest.

Regarding what, bots? Plus, I am not sure when SF had complete control over the Southern Media so maybe you could explain that too.
He's a long long way to go before he can match SF on their social media.

And you haven't read much of the Irish Times over the last few years if you think Fine Gael controls them!!
Just because the Times thinks there's still a stench over many in SF, doesnt mean FG put them up to it.

Look the establishment media look after their friends in the establishment -  you have to be brain dead not to see this or part of the established main parties and just not want to see it.

Rossfan - An Taoiseach has a serious amount of stuff he needs to be doing in a time national crisis and during a Pandemic. How you could even suggest otherwise I just cannot understand.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 06, 2020, 12:33:03 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 06, 2020, 12:24:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 06, 2020, 12:05:24 PM
An Taoiseach has no real job in these Caretaker and Pandemic days.
There are no major policy decisions, no major future plans or strategies to be developed, no EU summits, no foreign trade missions etc.
Anything a senior Civil Servant can't do will be signed or approved by the relevant Minister.
So if he has medical qualifications let him at a bit of doctoring.

Meanwhile 500 Private Hospital Consultants concerned that their private patients will suffer from them being "Nationalised".
Fair play to them for not mentioning their loss of income from said patients.
I think Leo has been statesmanlike in his approach to date, not least by the reassurance of his calm , controlled and empathetic manner. However, I feel that a one day a week contribution from a doctor who hasn't been registered for 7 years isn't going to make a significant difference to the health service effort. As Taoiseach, He should be totally focussed on areas where he must make an impact. Securing ppe for health workers,cementing policies to prevent spread , demanding/procuring the very best epidemiological advice and treatment , and securing the economy and welfare of the population as a whole , so that we exit this crisis as well as possible. The medical profession can survive without Leo's one day a week, the country needs him focussed on where he is best placed to make an impact. If he was using this as a PR exercise , it's unlikely to impress for the reasons highlighted above.

This is a PR exercise, but not necessarily one designed only  to promote Leo. By getting involved he is showing the importance of the situation and is supporting the medical people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 06, 2020, 12:50:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2020, 12:33:03 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on April 06, 2020, 12:24:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 06, 2020, 12:05:24 PM
An Taoiseach has no real job in these Caretaker and Pandemic days.
There are no major policy decisions, no major future plans or strategies to be developed, no EU summits, no foreign trade missions etc.
Anything a senior Civil Servant can't do will be signed or approved by the relevant Minister.
So if he has medical qualifications let him at a bit of doctoring.

Meanwhile 500 Private Hospital Consultants concerned that their private patients will suffer from them being "Nationalised".
Fair play to them for not mentioning their loss of income from said patients.
I think Leo has been statesmanlike in his approach to date, not least by the reassurance of his calm , controlled and empathetic manner. However, I feel that a one day a week contribution from a doctor who hasn't been registered for 7 years isn't going to make a significant difference to the health service effort. As Taoiseach, He should be totally focussed on areas where he must make an impact. Securing ppe for health workers,cementing policies to prevent spread , demanding/procuring the very best epidemiological advice and treatment , and securing the economy and welfare of the population as a whole , so that we exit this crisis as well as possible. The medical profession can survive without Leo's one day a week, the country needs him focussed on where he is best placed to make an impact. If he was using this as a PR exercise , it's unlikely to impress for the reasons highlighted above.

This is a PR exercise, but not necessarily one designed only  to promote Leo. By getting involved he is showing the importance of the situation and is supporting the medical people.

Indeed... and if it gives him a bit more of a clout with the brain-deads up here, i.e. "Arlene, you'd do well to remember I'm a qualified medical doctor before spouting your shite over listening to Boris 'I shake hands' Johnson and his 'scientific advice' when it comes to deciding whats best for the island", then we might be thankful for it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 06, 2020, 01:10:04 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 12:28:36 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 06, 2020, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 09:15:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 08:58:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 08:07:05 AM
Quote from: mouview on April 06, 2020, 12:17:54 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 05, 2020, 10:00:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 05, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Both our Taoiseach and british prime minister will be in hospital next week.

One is a leader, other a follower.

Well I think An Taoiseach should concentrate on being An Taoiseach which is the most important job in Ireland at the moment. A PR gimmick of him re-listing as a doctor is just that, a popularity gimmick. BTW - he said he will be doing phone assessments so doubt he will be in a hospital.

As for Boris, unfortunately for him he is reaping what he sowed now.

Every Health Centre in the country is crying out for more GP's to triage people by telephone. Even if he's doing it for a few hours a week. Fair play to him

He didnt pay nurses what they deserved before this. Now he's going to be a doctor again. If he'd gone about it quietly then maybe you could give him benefit of the doubt but No every media outlet runs with it simultaneously this evening. He's a PR addict and he's hoping we are all too stupid to see it. He is probably right.

Maybe he did want to go about it quietly, but word got out anyway. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt for once?

Yeh right, word just got out. Have you ever followed Varadkar on twitter? After many of his tweets you will see obvious  bots chiming in telling him what a great job he is doing. You know them, they have zero followers and themselves follow 10-15 people. Media spin is a huge part of how he operates and in the southern media he has huge control over a lot of them.

Varadkar has been doing a decent job but this is just cynical manipulation of a terrible situation. He should be focusing solely on being An Taoiseach, dealing with this crisis and forming a government with his best buds in FF.

He has learnt quite a lot from Sinn Féin to be honest.

Regarding what, bots? Plus, I am not sure when SF had complete control over the Southern Media so maybe you could explain that too.
He's a long long way to go before he can match SF on their social media.

And you haven't read much of the Irish Times over the last few years if you think Fine Gael controls them!!
Just because the Times thinks there's still a stench over many in SF, doesnt mean FG put them up to it.

Look the establishment media look after their friends in the establishment -  you have to be brain dead not to see this or part of the established main parties and just not want to see it.

Rossfan - An Taoiseach has a serious amount of stuff he needs to be doing in a time national crisis and during a Pandemic. How you could even suggest otherwise I just cannot understand.
Such as....??
He's a Caretaker just keeping the machinery of Government functioning till someone is elected.
Any functions he has to fulfil can be done in an hour or 2 every day.
The Minister for Health and his senior people are there to deal with the crisis in a full time hands on way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 01:49:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 06, 2020, 01:10:04 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 12:28:36 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 06, 2020, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 09:15:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 08:58:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 08:07:05 AM
Quote from: mouview on April 06, 2020, 12:17:54 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 05, 2020, 10:00:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 05, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Both our Taoiseach and british prime minister will be in hospital next week.

One is a leader, other a follower.

Well I think An Taoiseach should concentrate on being An Taoiseach which is the most important job in Ireland at the moment. A PR gimmick of him re-listing as a doctor is just that, a popularity gimmick. BTW - he said he will be doing phone assessments so doubt he will be in a hospital.

As for Boris, unfortunately for him he is reaping what he sowed now.

Every Health Centre in the country is crying out for more GP's to triage people by telephone. Even if he's doing it for a few hours a week. Fair play to him

He didnt pay nurses what they deserved before this. Now he's going to be a doctor again. If he'd gone about it quietly then maybe you could give him benefit of the doubt but No every media outlet runs with it simultaneously this evening. He's a PR addict and he's hoping we are all too stupid to see it. He is probably right.

Maybe he did want to go about it quietly, but word got out anyway. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt for once?

Yeh right, word just got out. Have you ever followed Varadkar on twitter? After many of his tweets you will see obvious  bots chiming in telling him what a great job he is doing. You know them, they have zero followers and themselves follow 10-15 people. Media spin is a huge part of how he operates and in the southern media he has huge control over a lot of them.

Varadkar has been doing a decent job but this is just cynical manipulation of a terrible situation. He should be focusing solely on being An Taoiseach, dealing with this crisis and forming a government with his best buds in FF.

He has learnt quite a lot from Sinn Féin to be honest.

Regarding what, bots? Plus, I am not sure when SF had complete control over the Southern Media so maybe you could explain that too.
He's a long long way to go before he can match SF on their social media.

And you haven't read much of the Irish Times over the last few years if you think Fine Gael controls them!!
Just because the Times thinks there's still a stench over many in SF, doesnt mean FG put them up to it.

Look the establishment media look after their friends in the establishment -  you have to be brain dead not to see this or part of the established main parties and just not want to see it.

Rossfan - An Taoiseach has a serious amount of stuff he needs to be doing in a time national crisis and during a Pandemic. How you could even suggest otherwise I just cannot understand.
Such as....??
He's a Caretaker just keeping the machinery of Government functioning till someone is elected.
Any functions he has to fulfil can be done in an hour or 2 every day.
The Minister for Health and his senior people are there to deal with the crisis in a full time hands on way.

I've never been Taoiseach (and I expect you havent either) but I find it hard to believe he has nothing for doing. As I said before, in the place I work I am not a emergency response person but the last few weeks everything I have been doing is Covid related and that includes coming in early to meet shifts, staying till all hours to meet other shifts fielding constant questions, fears, listening to ideas and implementing ideas. I cannot believe that An Taoiseach has nothing to be at in a national emergency where hundreds (so far) are dying. I find it hard to believe that you actually believe what you are writing there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 06, 2020, 02:55:36 PM
You of little faith Itchy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 06, 2020, 03:18:21 PM
The mother of Manchester City manager Pep Guardiola has died after contracting coronavirus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tiempo on April 06, 2020, 04:15:33 PM
Reading there that house prices in England predicted to fall by 3%

Struggle to see that being the case if this ends up being an economic depression as seems likely

Was a 15% drop in 2008 off the back of a recession

Would expect 15%+ drop this time surely

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 06, 2020, 04:18:55 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 06, 2020, 03:18:21 PM
The mother of Manchester City manager Pep Guardiola has died after contracting coronavirus.

Very sad :(

I would say the same as you Tiempo. I think the mother of all recessions is coming.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Christmas Lights on April 06, 2020, 04:28:41 PM
Why is the thread China Coronavirus?  Seems very racist, can we perhaps get that changed in the subject bar?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mouview on April 06, 2020, 04:33:23 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 12:28:36 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 06, 2020, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 09:15:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 08:58:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 08:07:05 AM
Quote from: mouview on April 06, 2020, 12:17:54 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 05, 2020, 10:00:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 05, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Both our Taoiseach and british prime minister will be in hospital next week.

One is a leader, other a follower.

Well I think An Taoiseach should concentrate on being An Taoiseach which is the most important job in Ireland at the moment. A PR gimmick of him re-listing as a doctor is just that, a popularity gimmick. BTW - he said he will be doing phone assessments so doubt he will be in a hospital.

As for Boris, unfortunately for him he is reaping what he sowed now.

Every Health Centre in the country is crying out for more GP's to triage people by telephone. Even if he's doing it for a few hours a week. Fair play to him

He didnt pay nurses what they deserved before this. Now he's going to be a doctor again. If he'd gone about it quietly then maybe you could give him benefit of the doubt but No every media outlet runs with it simultaneously this evening. He's a PR addict and he's hoping we are all too stupid to see it. He is probably right.

Maybe he did want to go about it quietly, but word got out anyway. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt for once?

Yeh right, word just got out. Have you ever followed Varadkar on twitter? After many of his tweets you will see obvious  bots chiming in telling him what a great job he is doing. You know them, they have zero followers and themselves follow 10-15 people. Media spin is a huge part of how he operates and in the southern media he has huge control over a lot of them.

Varadkar has been doing a decent job but this is just cynical manipulation of a terrible situation. He should be focusing solely on being An Taoiseach, dealing with this crisis and forming a government with his best buds in FF.

He has learnt quite a lot from Sinn Féin to be honest.

Regarding what, bots? Plus, I am not sure when SF had complete control over the Southern Media so maybe you could explain that too.
He's a long long way to go before he can match SF on their social media.

And you haven't read much of the Irish Times over the last few years if you think Fine Gael controls them!!
Just because the Times thinks there's still a stench over many in SF, doesnt mean FG put them up to it.

Look the establishment media look after their friends in the establishment -  you have to be brain dead not to see this or part of the established main parties and just not want to see it.

Rossfan - An Taoiseach has a serious amount of stuff he needs to be doing in a time national crisis and during a Pandemic. How you could even suggest otherwise I just cannot understand.

What 'establishment media'? If anything, Varadkar and FG have been very unfairly treated by the majority of the mainstream media, who have been constantly sniping at them prior to and since the GE and have gotten damn all credit for the lengths they've taken us since 2008.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 06, 2020, 04:47:11 PM
Quote from: tiempo on April 06, 2020, 04:15:33 PM
Reading there that house prices in England predicted to fall by 3%

Struggle to see that being the case if this ends up being an economic depression as seems likely

Was a 15% drop in 2008 off the back of a recession

Would expect 15%+ drop this time surely

Any thoughts?

That 3% may be the average - the rich will still have money so the expensive properties around London and the likes could hold their value.

I would expect the drop in working class areas to be much more than even 15%.

Once the mortgage payment freezes stop, crime will increase massively as people get more and more desperate to maintain their standard of lifestyle or indeed to actually live
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 04:58:39 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 06, 2020, 04:47:11 PM
Quote from: tiempo on April 06, 2020, 04:15:33 PM
Reading there that house prices in England predicted to fall by 3%

Struggle to see that being the case if this ends up being an economic depression as seems likely

Was a 15% drop in 2008 off the back of a recession

Would expect 15%+ drop this time surely

Any thoughts?

That 3% may be the average - the rich will still have money so the expensive properties around London and the likes could hold their value.

I would expect the drop in working class areas to be much more than even 15%.

Once the mortgage payment freezes stop, crime will increase massively as people get more and more desperate to maintain their standard of lifestyle or indeed to actually live

I thought it'd be more also - especially as time goes on.  Unemployment will rocket and house prices will drop.

People were living above their means before this, just treading water.  I know interest rates at at rock bottom, and will be for a while, but if one person in a household is laid off, then it'll be tough.

I read somewhere recently that 1 in 5 family rent so there will be problems with the lack of houses down the line - if houses are not built.  Are sites open even?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on April 06, 2020, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 06, 2020, 04:47:11 PM
Quote from: tiempo on April 06, 2020, 04:15:33 PM
Reading there that house prices in England predicted to fall by 3%

Struggle to see that being the case if this ends up being an economic depression as seems likely

Was a 15% drop in 2008 off the back of a recession

Would expect 15%+ drop this time surely

Any thoughts?

That 3% may be the average - the rich will still have money so the expensive properties around London and the likes could hold their value.

I would expect the drop in working class areas to be much more than even 15%.

Once the mortgage payment freezes stop, crime will increase massively as people get more and more desperate to maintain their standard of lifestyle or indeed to actually live

House prices have only recently started to recover from 2008 and there is still a considerable amount of negative equity about. If you are talking about a 15% fall on current pricing that is going to leave a lot of people already in trouble and having spent the last 10+ years trying to get their way out of it in much much bigger trouble. The financial fallout from this will be enormous, greater than any of us can comprehend at the minute. But that can't be the sole driver for leaving 1000's of people to needless die. It's a fine line but I'd always come out on the side of health V economy. Your health is your wealth and that has never been more true than the present time.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 06, 2020, 05:01:23 PM
Quote from: Christmas Lights on April 06, 2020, 04:28:41 PM
Why is the thread China Coronavirus?  Seems very racist, can we perhaps get that changed in the subject bar?

Probably because when the thread was created the virus was only in China. Up to the OP to change the title of this thread.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 05:01:57 PM
Quote from: mouview on April 06, 2020, 04:33:23 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 12:28:36 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 06, 2020, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 09:15:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 08:58:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 08:07:05 AM
Quote from: mouview on April 06, 2020, 12:17:54 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 05, 2020, 10:00:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 05, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Both our Taoiseach and british prime minister will be in hospital next week.

One is a leader, other a follower.

Well I think An Taoiseach should concentrate on being An Taoiseach which is the most important job in Ireland at the moment. A PR gimmick of him re-listing as a doctor is just that, a popularity gimmick. BTW - he said he will be doing phone assessments so doubt he will be in a hospital.

As for Boris, unfortunately for him he is reaping what he sowed now.

Every Health Centre in the country is crying out for more GP's to triage people by telephone. Even if he's doing it for a few hours a week. Fair play to him

He didnt pay nurses what they deserved before this. Now he's going to be a doctor again. If he'd gone about it quietly then maybe you could give him benefit of the doubt but No every media outlet runs with it simultaneously this evening. He's a PR addict and he's hoping we are all too stupid to see it. He is probably right.

Maybe he did want to go about it quietly, but word got out anyway. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt for once?

Yeh right, word just got out. Have you ever followed Varadkar on twitter? After many of his tweets you will see obvious  bots chiming in telling him what a great job he is doing. You know them, they have zero followers and themselves follow 10-15 people. Media spin is a huge part of how he operates and in the southern media he has huge control over a lot of them.

Varadkar has been doing a decent job but this is just cynical manipulation of a terrible situation. He should be focusing solely on being An Taoiseach, dealing with this crisis and forming a government with his best buds in FF.

He has learnt quite a lot from Sinn Féin to be honest.

Regarding what, bots? Plus, I am not sure when SF had complete control over the Southern Media so maybe you could explain that too.
He's a long long way to go before he can match SF on their social media.

And you haven't read much of the Irish Times over the last few years if you think Fine Gael controls them!!
Just because the Times thinks there's still a stench over many in SF, doesnt mean FG put them up to it.

Look the establishment media look after their friends in the establishment -  you have to be brain dead not to see this or part of the established main parties and just not want to see it.

Rossfan - An Taoiseach has a serious amount of stuff he needs to be doing in a time national crisis and during a Pandemic. How you could even suggest otherwise I just cannot understand.

What 'establishment media'? If anything, Varadkar and FG have been very unfairly treated by the majority of the mainstream media, who have been constantly sniping at them prior to and since the GE and have gotten damn all credit for the lengths they've taken us since 2008.

What a load of bollox. Did you watch any of the pre election coverage? Yesterday Mary Lou and the rest of the SF TDs refused to take a pay rise that comes into effect for TDs saying it was not appropriate. I only know this as I follow Mary Lou on Twitter. You could say that is a gimmick too but lets compare the media reaction...

Google it - https://www.google.com/search?q=sinn+fein+pay+rise&rlz=1C1GCEB_enIE828IE828&oq=sinn+fein+pay+&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i57j0l2.2726j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Only Irish Examiner covers this story.

Google Varadkar going to be a doctor...

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GCEB_enIE828IE828&sxsrf=ALeKk039r-r8BgR7S17Yn3olIDO2l7mIcA%3A1586188749326&ei=zVGLXpTBE8O6tQagw7WADA&q=Taoiseach+doctor&oq=Taoiseach+doctor&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzIFCAAQxAI6BAgAEEc6BAgjECc6BQgAEJECOgcIABCDARBDOgUIABCDAToECAAQQzoCCAA6BAgAEAM6CggAEJECEEYQ-wE6BggAEBYQHkoxCBcSLTBnMTgwZzE3MGcyMTNnMTY5ZzE3M2cxNjRnMTUyZzE1NWcxNzFnMTYwZzEwOEobCBgSFzBnMWcxZzFnMWcxZzFnMWcxZzFnNWczUIfIBFjf9ARguvcEaABwAXgAgAHPAYgBkRSSAQYwLjE1LjGYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjU28zHldToAhVDXc0KHaBhDcAQ4dUDCAw&uact=5

Spot the difference.

Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on April 06, 2020, 05:08:15 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 06, 2020, 05:01:23 PM
Quote from: Christmas Lights on April 06, 2020, 04:28:41 PM
Why is the thread China Coronavirus?  Seems very racist, can we perhaps get that changed in the subject bar?

Probably because when the thread was created the virus was only in China. Up to the OP to change the title of this thread.
Nothing racist about it, it originated in China. Just because it's China doesn't mean everything is automatically racist. Is the Spanish Flu racist towards Spaniards? Didn't think so
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 06, 2020, 05:20:25 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 06, 2020, 05:08:15 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 06, 2020, 05:01:23 PM
Quote from: Christmas Lights on April 06, 2020, 04:28:41 PM
Why is the thread China Coronavirus?  Seems very racist, can we perhaps get that changed in the subject bar?

Probably because when the thread was created the virus was only in China. Up to the OP to change the title of this thread.
Nothing racist about it, it originated in China. Just because it's China doesn't mean everything is automatically racist. Is the Spanish Flu racist towards Spaniards? Didn't think so

It was called the Spanish Flu because Spain was the only country allowed to freely report about it at the time. Not because it originated there.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 05:23:56 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 06, 2020, 05:20:25 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 06, 2020, 05:08:15 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 06, 2020, 05:01:23 PM
Quote from: Christmas Lights on April 06, 2020, 04:28:41 PM
Why is the thread China Coronavirus?  Seems very racist, can we perhaps get that changed in the subject bar?

Probably because when the thread was created the virus was only in China. Up to the OP to change the title of this thread.
Nothing racist about it, it originated in China. Just because it's China doesn't mean everything is automatically racist. Is the Spanish Flu racist towards Spaniards? Didn't think so

It was called the Spanish Flu because Spain was the only country allowed to freely report about it at the time. Not because it originated there.

It didn't come from Spain though.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on April 06, 2020, 05:25:42 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 06, 2020, 05:20:25 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 06, 2020, 05:08:15 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 06, 2020, 05:01:23 PM
Quote from: Christmas Lights on April 06, 2020, 04:28:41 PM
Why is the thread China Coronavirus?  Seems very racist, can we perhaps get that changed in the subject bar?

Probably because when the thread was created the virus was only in China. Up to the OP to change the title of this thread.
Nothing racist about it, it originated in China. Just because it's China doesn't mean everything is automatically racist. Is the Spanish Flu racist towards Spaniards? Didn't think so

It was called the Spanish Flu because Spain was the only country allowed to freely report about it at the time. Not because it originated there.
Yes i know, i mean that Spaniards have got that connotation with it, as if it actually belonged to them. If that wasn't deemed racist then neither should calling the Coronavirus Chinese.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 06, 2020, 05:25:51 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 06, 2020, 05:23:56 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 06, 2020, 05:20:25 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 06, 2020, 05:08:15 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 06, 2020, 05:01:23 PM
Quote from: Christmas Lights on April 06, 2020, 04:28:41 PM
Why is the thread China Coronavirus?  Seems very racist, can we perhaps get that changed in the subject bar?

Probably because when the thread was created the virus was only in China. Up to the OP to change the title of this thread.
Nothing racist about it, it originated in China. Just because it's China doesn't mean everything is automatically racist. Is the Spanish Flu racist towards Spaniards? Didn't think so

It was called the Spanish Flu because Spain was the only country allowed to freely report about it at the time. Not because it originated there.

It didn't come from Spain though.

That's what he said
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2020, 05:59:04 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 08:07:05 AM
Quote from: mouview on April 06, 2020, 12:17:54 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 05, 2020, 10:00:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 05, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Both our Taoiseach and british prime minister will be in hospital next week.

One is a leader, other a follower.

Well I think An Taoiseach should concentrate on being An Taoiseach which is the most important job in Ireland at the moment. A PR gimmick of him re-listing as a doctor is just that, a popularity gimmick. BTW - he said he will be doing phone assessments so doubt he will be in a hospital.

As for Boris, unfortunately for him he is reaping what he sowed now.

Every Health Centre in the country is crying out for more GP's to triage people by telephone. Even if he's doing it for a few hours a week. Fair play to him

He didnt pay nurses what they deserved before this. Now he's going to be a doctor again. If he'd gone about it quietly then maybe you could give him benefit of the doubt but No every media outlet runs with it simultaneously this evening. He's a PR addict and he's hoping we are all too stupid to see it. He is probably right.

Maybe he did want to go about it quietly, but word got out anyway. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt for once?

Yeh right, word just got out. Have you ever followed Varadkar on twitter? After many of his tweets you will see obvious  bots chiming in telling him what a great job he is doing. You know them, they have zero followers and themselves follow 10-15 people. Media spin is a huge part of how he operates and in the southern media he has huge control over a lot of them.

Varadkar has been doing a decent job but this is just cynical manipulation of a terrible situation. He should be focusing solely on being An Taoiseach, dealing with this crisis and forming a government with his best buds in FF.

And if he did just focus on being Taoiseach you'd be whinging about him not doing anything to help front line workers. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Make a good gesture and you're lambasted for being "cynical." What is it with free staters that they're never happy with what the politicians do? If you think you could do a better job, stand for election yourself and show us how easy it is. Christ. If we had leadership like Varadkar in the US it wouldn't be so bad.
Title: Re: Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2020, 05:59:47 PM
Quote from: Christmas Lights on April 06, 2020, 04:28:41 PM
Why is the thread China Coronavirus?  Seems very racist, can we perhaps get that changed in the subject bar?

Confirmed cases were only in China when the thread started.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: nrico2006 on April 06, 2020, 06:15:27 PM
Did it not originate in China? How is calling it the China Coronavirus racist?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on April 06, 2020, 06:26:22 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 06, 2020, 06:15:27 PM
Did it not originate in China? How is calling it the China Coronavirus racist?

I don't know. We must all be racist bastards for using the term "Spanish flu" a million times since the years beginning.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 06:35:54 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2020, 05:59:04 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 08:07:05 AM
Quote from: mouview on April 06, 2020, 12:17:54 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 10:09:32 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 05, 2020, 10:00:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 05, 2020, 09:25:30 PM
Both our Taoiseach and british prime minister will be in hospital next week.

One is a leader, other a follower.

Well I think An Taoiseach should concentrate on being An Taoiseach which is the most important job in Ireland at the moment. A PR gimmick of him re-listing as a doctor is just that, a popularity gimmick. BTW - he said he will be doing phone assessments so doubt he will be in a hospital.

As for Boris, unfortunately for him he is reaping what he sowed now.

Every Health Centre in the country is crying out for more GP's to triage people by telephone. Even if he's doing it for a few hours a week. Fair play to him

He didnt pay nurses what they deserved before this. Now he's going to be a doctor again. If he'd gone about it quietly then maybe you could give him benefit of the doubt but No every media outlet runs with it simultaneously this evening. He's a PR addict and he's hoping we are all too stupid to see it. He is probably right.

Maybe he did want to go about it quietly, but word got out anyway. Why not give him the benefit of the doubt for once?

Yeh right, word just got out. Have you ever followed Varadkar on twitter? After many of his tweets you will see obvious  bots chiming in telling him what a great job he is doing. You know them, they have zero followers and themselves follow 10-15 people. Media spin is a huge part of how he operates and in the southern media he has huge control over a lot of them.

Varadkar has been doing a decent job but this is just cynical manipulation of a terrible situation. He should be focusing solely on being An Taoiseach, dealing with this crisis and forming a government with his best buds in FF.

And if he did just focus on being Taoiseach you'd be whinging about him not doing anything to help front line workers. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Make a good gesture and you're lambasted for being "cynical." What is it with free staters that they're never happy with what the politicians do? If you think you could do a better job, stand for election yourself and show us how easy it is. Christ. If we had leadership like Varadkar in the US it wouldn't be so bad.

Dont call me a freestater you f**king p***k.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hardy on April 06, 2020, 06:37:55 PM
https://twitter.com/AndyOstroy/status/1246811769076678656?s=09
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 06, 2020, 06:52:01 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 06, 2020, 06:15:27 PM
Did it not originate in China? How is calling it the China Coronavirus racist?
One scientist claims coronavirus came from space by meteor back in October.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on April 06, 2020, 07:05:41 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 06, 2020, 06:26:22 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 06, 2020, 06:15:27 PM
Did it not originate in China? How is calling it the China Coronavirus racist?

I don't know. We must all be racist bastards for using the term "Spanish flu" a million times since the years beginning.

Spanish flu didn't originate in Spain. This Coronavirus more than likely originated in China but it could've started in any country so there's no need to stigmatise China because there's enough racists out there and they don't need encouragement.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on April 06, 2020, 07:08:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 06, 2020, 07:05:41 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 06, 2020, 06:26:22 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 06, 2020, 06:15:27 PM
Did it not originate in China? How is calling it the China Coronavirus racist?

I don't know. We must all be racist bastards for using the term "Spanish flu" a million times since the years beginning.

Spanish flu didn't originate in Spain. This Coronavirus more than likely originated in China but it could've started in any country so there's no need to stigmatise China because there's enough racists out there and they don't need encouragement.
So why is it ok to stigmatise Spanish people? That flu of 1918 also started in China. This notion that labelling something Chinese is automatically racist is absurd. Pure snowflakism.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on April 06, 2020, 07:16:55 PM

Quote from: lenny on April 06, 2020, 07:05:41 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 06, 2020, 06:26:22 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 06, 2020, 06:15:27 PM
Did it not originate in China? How is calling it the China Coronavirus racist?

I don't know. We must all be racist bastards for using the term "Spanish flu" a million times since the years beginning.

Spanish flu didn't originate in Spain. This Coronavirus more than likely originated in China but it could've started in any country so there's no need to stigmatise China because there's enough racists out there and they don't need encouragement.

The billion or so Chinese are well enough able to look after themselves. They don't need you defending them from the "racism" of the gaaboard China corornavirus thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 06, 2020, 07:23:07 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 06, 2020, 07:16:55 PM

Quote from: lenny on April 06, 2020, 07:05:41 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 06, 2020, 06:26:22 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 06, 2020, 06:15:27 PM
Did it not originate in China? How is calling it the China Coronavirus racist?

I don't know. We must all be racist bastards for using the term "Spanish flu" a million times since the years beginning.

Spanish flu didn't originate in Spain. This Coronavirus more than likely originated in China but it could've started in any country so there's no need to stigmatise China because there's enough racists out there and they don't need encouragement.

The billion or so Chinese are well enough able to look after themselves. They don't need you defending them from the "racism" of the gaaboard China corornavirus thread.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/dcfcb0e4f34c7bff8d3557a5458ce705/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 06, 2020, 07:31:19 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 06, 2020, 07:08:21 PM
So why is it ok to stigmatise Spanish people? That flu of 1918 also started in China. This notion that labelling something Chinese is automatically racist is absurd. Pure snowflakism.

Was it not TexasKansas?


edit cos my brain ain't very good at remembering shit
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 06, 2020, 07:33:10 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 06, 2020, 07:08:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 06, 2020, 07:05:41 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 06, 2020, 06:26:22 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 06, 2020, 06:15:27 PM
Did it not originate in China? How is calling it the China Coronavirus racist?

I don't know. We must all be racist bastards for using the term "Spanish flu" a million times since the years beginning.

Spanish flu didn't originate in Spain. This Coronavirus more than likely originated in China but it could've started in any country so there's no need to stigmatise China because there's enough racists out there and they don't need encouragement.
So why is it ok to stigmatise Spanish people? That flu of 1918 also started in China. This notion that labelling something Chinese is automatically racist is absurd. Pure snowflakism.

The 1918 flu is most widely suspected to have originated in the US.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 06, 2020, 07:42:45 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 06, 2020, 07:33:10 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 06, 2020, 07:08:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 06, 2020, 07:05:41 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 06, 2020, 06:26:22 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 06, 2020, 06:15:27 PM
Did it not originate in China? How is calling it the China Coronavirus racist?

I don't know. We must all be racist bastards for using the term "Spanish flu" a million times since the years beginning.

Spanish flu didn't originate in Spain. This Coronavirus more than likely originated in China but it could've started in any country so there's no need to stigmatise China because there's enough racists out there and they don't need encouragement.
So why is it ok to stigmatise Spanish people? That flu of 1918 also started in China. This notion that labelling something Chinese is automatically racist is absurd. Pure snowflakism.

The 1918 flu is most widely suspected to have originated in the US.

Happened when everyone headed home after the war, so could have happened in any country but it's the Spanish flu!

f**k what an annoying thing to be concerned about!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on April 06, 2020, 07:45:41 PM
Many reports suggested that it started in China. Whether it did or not, the Chinese were a major factor in spreading it. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 06, 2020, 07:46:03 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 06, 2020, 07:33:10 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 06, 2020, 07:08:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 06, 2020, 07:05:41 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 06, 2020, 06:26:22 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 06, 2020, 06:15:27 PM
Did it not originate in China? How is calling it the China Coronavirus racist?

I don't know. We must all be racist bastards for using the term "Spanish flu" a million times since the years beginning.

Spanish flu didn't originate in Spain. This Coronavirus more than likely originated in China but it could've started in any country so there's no need to stigmatise China because there's enough racists out there and they don't need encouragement.
So why is it ok to stigmatise Spanish people? That flu of 1918 also started in China. This notion that labelling something Chinese is automatically racist is absurd. Pure snowflakism.

The 1918 flu is most widely suspected to have originated in the US.

The first recorded case was in Kansas, USA. However it is possible it could have started in other parts of the world with China one of the possibilities but definitely not Spain. It is called the Spanish Flu because the Spanish media were the first to report it in their newspapers.
A neutral county after the First World War it wasn't bound by the Western powers of not reporting any bad news stories on its front pages in the aftermath of the war.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 06, 2020, 07:46:09 PM
Has this been the most aggressive thread in GAA Board history?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 06, 2020, 07:48:11 PM
Thanks for the history lesson JC. I don't need, and didn't ask, for it, but cheers nonetheless.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 06, 2020, 07:50:13 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 06, 2020, 07:48:11 PM
Thanks for the history lesson JC. I don't need, and didn't ask, for it, but cheers nonetheless.

Just incase any else wanted enlightened! A wee fun fact for the day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 06, 2020, 08:15:20 PM
Trump has stopped calling it the Chinese virus!

I see the wet markets were up and running again.

Some say that in Asia they trust the wet markets rather than the supermarket!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: pbat on April 06, 2020, 08:15:59 PM
Boris moved to ICU. Not looking great for him.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on April 06, 2020, 08:16:46 PM
Quote from: pbat on April 06, 2020, 08:15:59 PM
Boris moved to ICU. Not looking great for him.

Itchy will be delighted
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2020, 08:17:07 PM
Why are free staters so thin-skinned about being called free staters?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tonto1888 on April 06, 2020, 08:17:50 PM
Quote from: pbat on April 06, 2020, 08:15:59 PM
Boris moved to ICU. Not looking great for him.

Where are you hearing this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: pbat on April 06, 2020, 08:18:33 PM
BBC
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2020, 08:20:51 PM
Jesus!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 06, 2020, 08:22:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 06, 2020, 08:15:20 PM
I see the wet markets were up and running again.

Some say that in Asia they trust the wet markets rather than the supermarket!

Seriously?

FFS.  >:(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 06, 2020, 08:25:24 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 06, 2020, 08:22:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 06, 2020, 08:15:20 PM
I see the wet markets were up and running again.

Some say that in Asia they trust the wet markets rather than the supermarket!

Seriously?

FFS.  >:(

Was reading it there now, I'll put link up

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bloombergquint.com/amp/business/coronavirus-closing-china-s-wet-markets-isn-t-a-solution
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on April 06, 2020, 08:26:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 06, 2020, 08:15:20 PM
Trump has stopped calling it the Chinese virus!

I see the wet markets were up and running again.

Some say that in Asia they trust the wet markets rather than the supermarket!
one bat and a pangolin please .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 06, 2020, 08:40:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 06, 2020, 08:25:24 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 06, 2020, 08:22:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 06, 2020, 08:15:20 PM
I see the wet markets were up and running again.

Some say that in Asia they trust the wet markets rather than the supermarket!

Seriously?

FFS.  >:(

Was reading it there now, I'll put link up

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bloombergquint.com/amp/business/coronavirus-closing-china-s-wet-markets-isn-t-a-solution

Thanks for the link.


I see its an opinion piece of a market trader.


Quote"And don't overlook the possibility that a key ingredient in Covid-19's genetic cocktail isn't wild game, but domesticated livestock."

Completely unfounded.

Common thought train at the moment is it came from a bat to pangolin and then onward.


To be fair, I don't have a problem with wet markets in themselves - but the standards they are held to need to be upped dramatically:
(i) no wild animals.
(ii) proper separation of stock by class. Mammals away from reptiles away from fish etc.
(iii) acceptable hygiene standards observed for slaughtering.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2020, 08:51:03 PM
Boris' girlfriend not doing so good either by the sounds of it.

Dominic "let the pensioners die to ease the pressure on the economy" Cummings has had symptoms, and his uncle (Lord Bath) died two days ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 06, 2020, 08:54:18 PM

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2020, 08:51:03 PM
Dominic "let the pensioners die to ease the pressure on the economy" Cummings has had symptoms, and his uncle (Lord Bath) died two days ago.

Hopefully there is a death bed nice and handy to lie the c**t out on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 06, 2020, 08:54:44 PM
10 day fever is pretty serious. Was talking to a doctor today who said he didn't believe the routine tests story. They don't admit a 55yr old to do that. Apparently 10 days in is the stage where some people get really unwell really fast.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 06, 2020, 08:56:06 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 06, 2020, 08:54:44 PM
10 day fever is pretty serious. Was talking to a doctor today who said he didn't believe the routine tests story. They don't admit a 55yr old to do that.

If it were routine tests, they'd have had them done in Downing Street.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 06, 2020, 08:57:38 PM
No he is isn't in great shape. Still is possible he could get through this but I suspect he's a lot worse than is being let on.

Jesus this would be a fair old shock if the leader of the uk died from this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 06, 2020, 08:59:39 PM
Quote from: pbat on April 06, 2020, 08:15:59 PM
Boris moved to ICU. Not looking great for him.

Of course they were saying earlier that he was sitting up in bed doing the paperwork. They could have just said that he was taking it easy, but lying is too deeply ingrained.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 06, 2020, 09:00:57 PM
Even now they are playing it down, saying it's a precaution. They don't send someone to ICU as a precaution.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 06, 2020, 09:02:51 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2020, 08:51:03 PM
Boris' girlfriend not doing so good either by the sounds of it.

Dominic "let the pensioners die to ease the pressure on the economy" Cummings has had symptoms, and his uncle (Lord Bath) died two days ago.

Isn't his girlfriend pregnant? :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on April 06, 2020, 09:03:10 PM
The US said at the weekend that with mitigation they're looking at a best case of 100-240k deaths from the virus but it looks like they're not trending anywhere near that is it a possibility??

Obviously the less deaths the better but has Trump been lowering the bar so that he can pretend he's handled everything "tremendously like nobody's ever seen before"??

I don't know much about these things and I'm happy to be told I'm wrong as it happens a lot but it doesn't seem to add up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 06, 2020, 09:03:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 06, 2020, 09:02:51 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2020, 08:51:03 PM
Boris' girlfriend not doing so good either by the sounds of it.

Dominic "let the pensioners die to ease the pressure on the economy" Cummings has had symptoms, and his uncle (Lord Bath) died two days ago.

Isn't his girlfriend pregnant? :(

Yep, this is a wile handlin of a disease.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 06, 2020, 09:11:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 06, 2020, 09:02:51 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2020, 08:51:03 PM
Boris' girlfriend not doing so good either by the sounds of it.

Dominic "let the pensioners die to ease the pressure on the economy" Cummings has had symptoms, and his uncle (Lord Bath) died two days ago.

Isn't his girlfriend pregnant? :(

She has it also, but may be better, she is younger.
Boris strikes me as someone that may have a puffed a cigar or two. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 06, 2020, 09:12:08 PM
From those aged 55-69 who are admitted to ICU with covid, 46% do not survive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyrone08 on April 06, 2020, 09:13:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 06, 2020, 09:03:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 06, 2020, 09:02:51 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2020, 08:51:03 PM
Boris' girlfriend not doing so good either by the sounds of it.

Dominic "let the pensioners die to ease the pressure on the economy" Cummings has had symptoms, and his uncle (Lord Bath) died two days ago.

Isn't his girlfriend pregnant? :(

Yep, this is a wile handlin of a disease.

Only 3 weeks ago Boris was telling the UK that you are going to lose relatives before their time and basically we should just get on with it. Wonder if he feels that way now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 06, 2020, 09:17:44 PM
So we are at the point of gloating over a pregnant woman possibly dying of the virus and someone who said something that was explained to him that was wrong?

Great set of lads
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 06, 2020, 09:19:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 06, 2020, 09:17:44 PM
So we are at the point of gloating over a pregnant woman possibly dying of the virus and someone who said something that was explained to him that was wrong?

Great set of lads

Had to take myself off Twitter this evening for this very reason. It would sicken you what some people come out with.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 06, 2020, 09:24:28 PM
Sympathies with the girlfriend and her family (and not just 'cos of this virus, they also have to put up with that odious p***k Johnson).

But struggling to garner much sympathy for the useless shite himself.

His own self-interest put him into the Leave campaign for Brexit - not because of any belief of his - simply because he seen it as a path to a higher profile. His presence likely made the difference in the referendum, which will negatively impact millions across the UK.

Now, with COVID, he f**ked around for 2+ critical months and did nothing substantial and now thousands are dead, probably over half them could have been avoided if he'd not been so interested in the short term economic outlook.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyrone08 on April 06, 2020, 09:25:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 06, 2020, 09:17:44 PM
So we are at the point of gloating over a pregnant woman possibly dying of the virus and someone who said something that was explained to him that was wrong?

Great set of lads

Haven't seen anyone gloating over Boris girlfriend to be fair
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 06, 2020, 09:27:56 PM
Who is gloating? There is quite a lot on Twitter but I don't see much here.

This thing is brutal and hopefully he and anyone in a position like his will pull through.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2020, 09:28:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 06, 2020, 09:02:51 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2020, 08:51:03 PM
Boris' girlfriend not doing so good either by the sounds of it.

Dominic "let the pensioners die to ease the pressure on the economy" Cummings has had symptoms, and his uncle (Lord Bath) died two days ago.

Isn't his girlfriend pregnant? :(

I'm afraid so. A fever when pregnant is not good, it could cook the baby.

Correction to the above post, apparently it wasn't Cummings' uncle who died, it was a different toff.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2020, 09:31:58 PM
Och I'd hate to see Boris succumbing to the virus, and I certainly hope the GF is okay. That odious Cummings p***k though? Couldn't happen to a nicer fella.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 06, 2020, 09:34:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 06, 2020, 09:11:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 06, 2020, 09:02:51 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2020, 08:51:03 PM
Boris' girlfriend not doing so good either by the sounds of it.

Dominic "let the pensioners die to ease the pressure on the economy" Cummings has had symptoms, and his uncle (Lord Bath) died two days ago.

Isn't his girlfriend pregnant? :(


She has it also, but may be better, she is younger.
Boris strikes me as someone that may have a puffed a cigar or two.
He certainly didn't look like a chap with a healthy lifestyle right enough.
Wish him all the best on a personal level.
But good God he brought it on himself between his herd immunity policy and wandering around hospitals shaking hands etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on April 06, 2020, 09:42:47 PM
I find the whole Boris Johnson illness to be quite depressing and woldn't be gloating about it at all. It is scary how even the high and mighty can not be saved from this disease.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on April 06, 2020, 09:43:57 PM
Hard to father people on the board  hoping for death for their fellow human beings .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 06, 2020, 09:45:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 06, 2020, 09:43:57 PM
Hard to father people on the board  hoping for death for their fellow human beings .

Agreed. I wish Boris a speedy recovery.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 09:48:00 PM
Quote from: pbat on April 06, 2020, 08:15:59 PM
Boris moved to ICU. Not looking great for him.

Why would I be happy, another p***k.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 09:49:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2020, 09:31:58 PM
Och I'd hate to see Boris succumbing to the virus, and I certainly hope the GF is okay. That odious Cummings p***k though? Couldn't happen to a nicer fella.

Your a yank yeh, I didn't think their stupidity was contagious.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 06, 2020, 09:52:57 PM
All the best to Boris. At the end of the day, he is just another human being, yep he will get better care than the ll average person, but the same fears and family love will exist for us all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 06, 2020, 10:08:25 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 06, 2020, 09:49:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 06, 2020, 09:31:58 PM
Och I'd hate to see Boris succumbing to the virus, and I certainly hope the GF is okay. That odious Cummings p***k though? Couldn't happen to a nicer fella.

Your a yank yeh, I didn't think their stupidity was contagious.

"Don't call me a freestater, you yank"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 06, 2020, 10:47:59 PM
Started the looting in Belfast centre it seems, S D Kells gotta a seeing to yesterday
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on April 06, 2020, 11:14:11 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 06, 2020, 09:03:10 PM
The US said at the weekend that with mitigation they're looking at a best case of 100-240k deaths from the virus but it looks like they're not trending anywhere near that is it a possibility??

Obviously the less deaths the better but has Trump been lowering the bar so that he can pretend he's handled everything "tremendously like nobody's ever seen before"??

I don't know much about these things and I'm happy to be told I'm wrong as it happens a lot but it doesn't seem to add up.

The Worldometers site states that deaths are being under reported, in NY anyway:
QuoteAn estimated additional 180 - 195 deaths per day occurring at home in New York City due to COVID-19 are not being counted in the official figures. "Early on in this crisis we were able to swab people who died at home, and thus got a coronavirus reading. But those days are long gone. We simply don't have the testing capacity for the large numbers dying at home. Now only those few who had a test confirmation *before* dying are marked as victims of coronavirus on their death certificate. This almost certainly means we are undercounting the total number of victims of this pandemic," said Mark Levine, Chair of New York City Council health committee
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on April 06, 2020, 11:34:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 06, 2020, 10:47:59 PM
Started the looting in Belfast centre it seems, S D Kells gotta a seeing to yesterday

Think that was the Divis hoods a few nights ago, drove away and the boot opened and most of their quarry fell out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2020, 12:34:59 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 06, 2020, 11:34:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 06, 2020, 10:47:59 PM
Started the looting in Belfast centre it seems, S D Kells gotta a seeing to yesterday

Think that was the Divis hoods a few nights ago, drove away and the boot opened and most of their quarry fell out

Was it? Just seen it on the news tonight. Probably got let out early due to the early release over Covid!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 07, 2020, 08:01:06 AM

https://www.ft.com/content/1bf986e6-ae9c-4afe-975c-0e51997ea3c4

The commission data also show that, since the start of the crisis, about 200 Britons have been repatriated thanks to flights organised by EU countries with support from the mechanism.  They include four UK citizens who made it home from Georgia on a flight organised by the Latvian government, and 85 brought back on an aircraft the Irish government arranged for people stranded in Peru. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armamike on April 07, 2020, 09:59:57 AM
Is it something like a 50% death rate for anyone in intensive care with this?  He's got many faults and yes his general ineptitude could have cost many deaths, but i hope he's going to be alright. Who knows, the experience might give him a new perspective on life and what's really important.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on April 07, 2020, 10:03:38 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 06, 2020, 09:12:08 PM
From those aged 55-69 who are admitted to ICU with covid, 46% do not survive.

Jesus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 07, 2020, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on April 07, 2020, 10:03:38 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 06, 2020, 09:12:08 PM
From those aged 55-69 who are admitted to ICU with covid, 46% do not survive.

Jesus.

Boris is at the lowest end of that age range, but it is still dodgy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on April 07, 2020, 10:08:55 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on April 07, 2020, 10:03:38 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 06, 2020, 09:12:08 PM
From those aged 55-69 who are admitted to ICU with covid, 46% do not survive.

Jesus.
The worst signal will be if you hear he's on a ventilator - that brings it down closer to 20% recovery rate.  His weight will not help. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 07, 2020, 10:17:04 AM
Quote from: Rois on April 07, 2020, 10:08:55 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on April 07, 2020, 10:03:38 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 06, 2020, 09:12:08 PM
From those aged 55-69 who are admitted to ICU with covid, 46% do not survive.

Jesus.
The worst signal will be if you hear he's on a ventilator - that brings it down closer to 20% recovery rate.  His weight will not help.
I heard he is on an ECMO, which is an advanced ventilator. Which is for people who are severely ill. It basically siphons out your blood, oxygenates it and then pumps it back it in. Dont know how true that is though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 07, 2020, 11:22:41 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 07, 2020, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on April 07, 2020, 10:03:38 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 06, 2020, 09:12:08 PM
From those aged 55-69 who are admitted to ICU with covid, 46% do not survive.

Jesus.

Boris is at the lowest end of that age range, but it is still dodgy.
He isn't very fit either
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Denn Forever on April 07, 2020, 11:27:25 AM
Doesn't the cycle around london?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on April 07, 2020, 11:40:45 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 07, 2020, 10:17:04 AM
Quote from: Rois on April 07, 2020, 10:08:55 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on April 07, 2020, 10:03:38 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 06, 2020, 09:12:08 PM
From those aged 55-69 who are admitted to ICU with covid, 46% do not survive.

Jesus.
The worst signal will be if you hear he's on a ventilator - that brings it down closer to 20% recovery rate.  His weight will not help.
I heard he is on an ECMO, which is an advanced ventilator. Which is for people who are severely ill. It basically siphons out your blood, oxygenates it and then pumps it back it in. Dont know how true that is though.

Should you really be relaying it then if your not sure how true or not it is?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 07, 2020, 11:55:14 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on April 07, 2020, 11:40:45 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 07, 2020, 10:17:04 AM
Quote from: Rois on April 07, 2020, 10:08:55 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on April 07, 2020, 10:03:38 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 06, 2020, 09:12:08 PM
From those aged 55-69 who are admitted to ICU with covid, 46% do not survive.

Jesus.
The worst signal will be if you hear he's on a ventilator - that brings it down closer to 20% recovery rate.  His weight will not help.
I heard he is on an ECMO, which is an advanced ventilator. Which is for people who are severely ill. It basically siphons out your blood, oxygenates it and then pumps it back it in. Dont know how true that is though.

Should you really be relaying it then if your not sure how true or not it is?
Well I did think about that, but considering that they have been telling porkies on his condition thus far, I thought it might offer up an explanation for when they say hes not on a ventilator. They can claim that they didn't lie about his condition. Plus I think this board is an obscure enough place to share this rumor without it causing mass panic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on April 07, 2020, 12:08:09 PM
Boris made a career out of lying #justsaying
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 07, 2020, 12:09:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 07, 2020, 11:22:41 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 07, 2020, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on April 07, 2020, 10:03:38 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 06, 2020, 09:12:08 PM
From those aged 55-69 who are admitted to ICU with covid, 46% do not survive.

Jesus.

Boris is at the lowest end of that age range, but it is still dodgy.
He isn't very fit either

High BMI, is he a smoker? The real figure for someone like him is probably above 50% not pulling through.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on April 07, 2020, 12:37:40 PM
One thing I didn't really appreciate was how low the survival rate is for those on ventilators; I see 20% has been stated here.
If that is the case then I'm not really sure why there was such a hoopla made about "not having enough ventilators".  In my uneducated mind I assumed that if you got a ventilator you had a 90(?)% chance of pulling through.  If however, it is 20% then it wouldn't even really matter if the UK had unlimited ventilators we would still have enormous deaths.

So why is "flatten the curve" so important?  Again, I had thought this was to ensure that we don't run out of ventilator capacity, and therefore the unsaid thing here is that ventilators greatly save lives.

This is brutal if there is only a 20% survival rate even once a patient gets a ventilator!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2020, 12:39:43 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 07, 2020, 12:37:40 PM
One thing I didn't really appreciate was how low the survival rate is for those on ventilators; I see 20% has been stated here.
If that is the case then I'm not really sure why there was such a hoopla made about "not having enough ventilators".  In my uneducated mind I assumed that if you got a ventilator you had a 90(?)% chance of pulling through.  If however, it is 20% then it wouldn't even really matter if the UK had unlimited ventilators we would still have enormous deaths.

So why is "flatten the curve" so important?  Again, I had thought this was to ensure that we don't run out of ventilator capacity, and therefore the unsaid thing here is that ventilators greatly save lives.

This is brutal if there is only a 20% survival rate even once a patient gets a ventilator!

I suppose 20% is better than no chance, but that is a horrific stat
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on April 07, 2020, 12:45:49 PM
This suggests there is a 35% survival rate:
https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1247260880233836553

But still; feck me that is brutal.  Such a scary disease.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ballinaman on April 07, 2020, 12:59:31 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on April 07, 2020, 11:27:25 AM
Doesn't the cycle around london?
Cycling isn't a very arduous exercise though
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 07, 2020, 01:02:03 PM
News just coming out suggests Johnson is relatively fine and was never in need of a ventilator.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 07, 2020, 01:05:22 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 07, 2020, 01:02:03 PM
News just coming out suggests Johnson is relatively fine and was never in need of a ventilator.

Mickey Gove has been on all morning telling people Bojo isnt on a ventilator
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 07, 2020, 01:06:44 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 07, 2020, 01:05:22 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 07, 2020, 01:02:03 PM
News just coming out suggests Johnson is relatively fine and was never in need of a ventilator.

Mickey Gove has been on all morning telling people Bojo isnt on a ventilator

There are ventilator and ventilators. It appears Bojo is on CPAP not a more high tech provision.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ballinaman on April 07, 2020, 01:18:43 PM
CPAP, continuous positive airway pressure is the level below intubation and mechanical ventilation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 07, 2020, 01:30:11 PM
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/boris-johnson-could-be-up-to-two-weeks-in-intensive-care-as-he-battles-coronavirus-says-northern-ireland-consultant-39109769.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on April 07, 2020, 01:34:50 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 07, 2020, 12:37:40 PM
One thing I didn't really appreciate was how low the survival rate is for those on ventilators; I see 20% has been stated here.
If that is the case then I'm not really sure why there was such a hoopla made about "not having enough ventilators".  In my uneducated mind I assumed that if you got a ventilator you had a 90(?)% chance of pulling through.  If however, it is 20% then it wouldn't even really matter if the UK had unlimited ventilators we would still have enormous deaths.

So why is "flatten the curve" so important?  Again, I had thought this was to ensure that we don't run out of ventilator capacity, and therefore the unsaid thing here is that ventilators greatly save lives.

This is brutal if there is only a 20% survival rate even once a patient gets a ventilator!
The number came from my sister and was risk-weighted (gender, age and obesity level, i.e. BMI over 30).  A disclaimer is that she's consultant surgeon but not connected with respiratory care or on the C-19 front line yet, although has gone through ventilator training in the last number of days.

Is flattening the curve not about ICU beds, not necessarily the ventilators?

My OH's aunt was in ICU to get oxygen through a mask, but she wasn't not on a ventilator and is out of ICU again, so it's possible for that scenario.       
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on April 07, 2020, 02:16:45 PM
There's 49 in ICU in the whole of the 6 counties atm, 5 in Altnagelvin. The ICU numbers in Altnagelvin have remained fairly constant the last week or so eg 4 last Wed, 3 on the Thursday etc. How these numbers look in 2 weeks time, who knows?
The North-West definitely took it's lead from the South, so hopefully that pays dividends.

Some of the stats being bandied about are crazy and the crazier the better as regards social media, Whatsapp etc. This thread definitely isn't good for your health!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on April 07, 2020, 02:32:59 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 07, 2020, 02:16:45 PM
There's 49 in ICU in the whole of the 6 counties atm, 5 in Altnagelvin. The ICU numbers in Altnagelvin have remained fairly constant the last week or so eg 4 last Wed, 3 on the Thursday etc. How these numbers look in 2 weeks time, who knows?
The North-West definitely took it's lead from the South, so hopefully that pays dividends.

Some of the stats being bandied about are crazy and the crazier the better as regards social media, Whatsapp etc. This thread definitely isn't good for your health!
Same with the Ulster hospital, which yesterday had 4 in ICU (that's where my sis works). 

The hospital with the largest number is the City, which had 11 as of Sunday, possibly more now.  Craigavon next with 8 I think.  The expected surge over the weekend didn't happen, whether it's still to come or has been flattened a bit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 07, 2020, 02:37:55 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 07, 2020, 02:16:45 PM
There's 49 in ICU in the whole of the 6 counties atm, 5 in Altnagelvin. The ICU numbers in Altnagelvin have remained fairly constant the last week or so eg 4 last Wed, 3 on the Thursday etc. How these numbers look in 2 weeks time, who knows?
The North-West definitely took it's lead from the South, so hopefully that pays dividends.

Some of the stats being bandied about are crazy and the crazier the better as regards social media, Whatsapp etc. This thread definitely isn't good for your health!

I think there is probably some context missing in that ventilator stat. Someone talked about CPAP there. I am not sure that is considered a ventilator so if you were on that you're ok. I am no expert on this mind but I am just not convinced by the stat.

Also I know quite a few now who have had this (between half a dozen and a dozen) and have been ok - very bad fever but that was the height of it. That's not to say it isn't horrendous and everyone clearly wants to avoid as much as possible in case you are one of those stats but the scenarios talked about are more in the minority than the majority.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 07, 2020, 02:51:03 PM
I'd say the stat on ventilators may be a little mis leading as it depends when you were put on the ventilator and in turn on what the demand for ventilators is. For example I would hazard a guess that in Italy people only get on a ventilator when someone else dies or recovers.

I am sure Boris as British Prime Minister is getting preferential treatment and has been put on a ventilator earlier than the average Joe - lets just hope it was not at the expense of the treatment of an average Joe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on April 07, 2020, 03:06:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 07, 2020, 02:51:03 PM
I'd say the stat on ventilators may be a little mis leading as it depends when you were put on the ventilator and in turn on what the demand for ventilators is. For example I would hazard a guess that in Italy people only get on a ventilator when someone else dies or recovers.

I am sure Boris as British Prime Minister is getting preferential treatment and has been put on a ventilator earlier than the average Joe - lets just hope it was not at the expense of the treatment of an average Joe.

They would be right to do so unfortunately. The average Joe isn't leading the country (whether you agree with him or not) during this crisis and I doubt he wants to either. The big problem I would have is he is taking resources such as having a team of doctors that could instead be used to monitor 4 or 5 patients instead of just one - likewise with nursing resources. When he recovers I hope he comes out of this more humble instead of saying shite like we will take it on the chin and realise how his party has methodically dismantles the NHS. As he is still PM the NHS needs him more than ever to provide the resources and support they need. At the next general election this is a catastrophe that will be remembered. He wanted to make Brexit his legacy and that has been overshadowed and perhaps now he will have to make saving the NHS his legacy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 07, 2020, 03:12:23 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on April 07, 2020, 03:06:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 07, 2020, 02:51:03 PM
I'd say the stat on ventilators may be a little mis leading as it depends when you were put on the ventilator and in turn on what the demand for ventilators is. For example I would hazard a guess that in Italy people only get on a ventilator when someone else dies or recovers.

I am sure Boris as British Prime Minister is getting preferential treatment and has been put on a ventilator earlier than the average Joe - lets just hope it was not at the expense of the treatment of an average Joe.

They would be right to do so unfortunately. The average Joe isn't leading the country (whether you agree with him or not) during this crisis and I doubt he wants to either. The big problem I would have is he is taking resources such as having a team of doctors that could instead be used to monitor 4 or 5 patients instead of just one - likewise with nursing resources. When he recovers I hope he comes out of this more humble instead of saying shite like we will take it on the chin and realise how his party has methodically dismantles the NHS. As he is still PM the NHS needs him more than ever to provide the resources and support they need. At the next general election this is a catastrophe that will be remembered. He wanted to make Brexit his legacy and that has been overshadowed and perhaps now he will have to make saving the NHS his legacy.

Unfortunately that is not going to happen.
Boris is led by the money men in the city - what they want he does.

His focus will be on them recovering any lost money during this economic downturn
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: maddog on April 07, 2020, 03:18:34 PM
Wifes uncle has it. Too old to have the ventilator. Would be a sprightly man for his age. He was taken in couple of days ago struggling. Had a much more settled night last night and now we are told he in palliative care so must have deteriorated rapidly
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 07, 2020, 03:22:09 PM
What age? Is that in NI?

Edit: I should also say very sorry to hear that :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: maddog on April 07, 2020, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 07, 2020, 03:22:09 PM
What age? Is that in NI?

Edit: I should also say very sorry to hear that :(

thanks
He would be in North Yorkshire. He'd be the 80 mark but as fit as a fiddle up until last week. Sound aul skin too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: weareros on April 07, 2020, 04:11:07 PM
Like anyone with this awful virus, hope Boris can pull through. Must be terrifying right now for his pregnant partner. He was a very foolish man, like Trump and some other leaders. I do think Downing Street is probably being more positive than the situation merits, but that is understandable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 07, 2020, 06:04:24 PM
283 deaths and 6,964 cases in the island of Ireland now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: maddog on April 07, 2020, 07:58:51 PM
Quote from: maddog on April 07, 2020, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 07, 2020, 03:22:09 PM
What age? Is that in NI?

Edit: I should also say very sorry to hear that :(

thanks
He would be in North Yorkshire. He'd be the 80 mark but as fit as a fiddle up until last week. Sound aul skin too.

He passed away few hours ago. RIP
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on April 07, 2020, 08:28:44 PM
Quote from: maddog on April 07, 2020, 07:58:51 PM
Quote from: maddog on April 07, 2020, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 07, 2020, 03:22:09 PM
What age? Is that in NI?

Edit: I should also say very sorry to hear that :(

thanks
He would be in North Yorkshire. He'd be the 80 mark but as fit as a fiddle up until last week. Sound aul skin too.

He passed away few hours ago. RIP

Very sad. Sorry to hear that.  :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dougal Maguire on April 07, 2020, 08:35:49 PM
Quote from: maddog on April 07, 2020, 07:58:51 PM
Quote from: maddog on April 07, 2020, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 07, 2020, 03:22:09 PM
What age? Is that in NI?

Edit: I should also say very sorry to hear that :(

thanks
He would be in North Yorkshire. He'd be the 80 mark but as fit as a fiddle up until last week. Sound aul skin too.

He passed away few hours ago. RIP
That's awful news. RIP
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 07, 2020, 08:59:47 PM
Sorry for your loss :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ball Hopper on April 07, 2020, 09:07:04 PM
Sorry for your loss.  RIP.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 07, 2020, 09:09:01 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on April 07, 2020, 08:35:49 PM
Quote from: maddog on April 07, 2020, 07:58:51 PM
Quote from: maddog on April 07, 2020, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 07, 2020, 03:22:09 PM
What age? Is that in NI?

Edit: I should also say very sorry to hear that :(

thanks
He would be in North Yorkshire. He'd be the 80 mark but as fit as a fiddle up until last week. Sound aul skin too.

He passed away few hours ago. RIP
That's awful news. RIP

Go ndéanfaidh Dia trócaire air
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 07, 2020, 09:17:34 PM
Quote from: maddog on April 07, 2020, 07:58:51 PM
Quote from: maddog on April 07, 2020, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 07, 2020, 03:22:09 PM
What age? Is that in NI?

Edit: I should also say very sorry to hear that :(

thanks
He would be in North Yorkshire. He'd be the 80 mark but as fit as a fiddle up until last week. Sound aul skin too.

He passed away few hours ago. RIP

Oh that's awful. I'm really sorry for your loss.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 07, 2020, 10:17:03 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 07, 2020, 02:37:55 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 07, 2020, 02:16:45 PM
There's 49 in ICU in the whole of the 6 counties atm, 5 in Altnagelvin. The ICU numbers in Altnagelvin have remained fairly constant the last week or so eg 4 last Wed, 3 on the Thursday etc. How these numbers look in 2 weeks time, who knows?
The North-West definitely took it's lead from the South, so hopefully that pays dividends.

Some of the stats being bandied about are crazy and the crazier the better as regards social media, Whatsapp etc. This thread definitely isn't good for your health!

I think there is probably some context missing in that ventilator stat. Someone talked about CPAP there. I am not sure that is considered a ventilator so if you were on that you're ok. I am no expert on this mind but I am just not convinced by the stat.

Also I know quite a few now who have had this (between half a dozen and a dozen) and have been ok - very bad fever but that was the height of it. That's not to say it isn't horrendous and everyone clearly wants to avoid as much as possible in case you are one of those stats but the scenarios talked about are more in the minority than the majority.
Tested or just think they had it as they had a bad flu in December?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2020, 10:44:17 PM
73 deaths in the North, MC doesn't want complacency seeping in!

3 deaths today, sister said Musgrave Park was busy today, are parks not closed?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 07, 2020, 10:47:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2020, 10:44:17 PM
3 deaths today, sister said Musgrave Park was busy today, are parks not closed?

Casement Park is closed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2020, 10:54:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 07, 2020, 10:47:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2020, 10:44:17 PM
3 deaths today, sister said Musgrave Park was busy today, are parks not closed?

Casement Park is closed.

Was looked at as a possible place to help with testing but wasn't given the go ahead, not much luck with it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 07, 2020, 11:20:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2020, 10:44:17 PM
73 deaths in the North, MC doesn't want complacency seeping in!

3 deaths today, sister said Musgrave Park was busy today, are parks not closed?

Nope, I drive past ormeau park on the way home from work and the pitches all had groups of 3 or 4 lads having a kick about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2020, 11:24:01 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 07, 2020, 11:20:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2020, 10:44:17 PM
73 deaths in the North, MC doesn't want complacency seeping in!

3 deaths today, sister said Musgrave Park was busy today, are parks not closed?

Nope, I drive past ormeau park on the way home from work and the pitches all had groups of 3 or 4 lads having a kick about.

Madness! Complete thickos!

Seen a guy on the pitches at the Uni, bag of balls and taking frees! Alone!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 07, 2020, 11:26:38 PM
I went through two checkpoints on the way to work yesterday. Was pleased to see it. How times change fast...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: maddog on April 08, 2020, 08:21:24 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 07, 2020, 09:17:34 PM
Quote from: maddog on April 07, 2020, 07:58:51 PM
Quote from: maddog on April 07, 2020, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 07, 2020, 03:22:09 PM
What age? Is that in NI?

Edit: I should also say very sorry to hear that :(

thanks
He would be in North Yorkshire. He'd be the 80 mark but as fit as a fiddle up until last week. Sound aul skin too.

He passed away few hours ago. RIP

Oh that's awful. I'm really sorry for your loss.


It just seems so unfair that a man that has paid his way all his life, had 2 daughters NHS nurses and a son in law an NHS doctor gets thrown on the scrap heap. I know they have to prioritise given the present resources but it should never have come to this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on April 08, 2020, 08:27:49 AM
The uk are going to pay a heavy price for the careless and reckless behaviour from their government, the opportunity to take early decisive action was overlooked in favour of short term economic benefits.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 08, 2020, 08:32:28 AM
I had heard that in Italy it started off that if you were over 75 you wouldn't get a ventilator but then with so many cases that ended up down at 40(a few weeks ago so may have lowered)  :(

Very sad for someone to live their life so long and then to die just like that and when you look at how the UK have handled it thus far it has been very poor as you'd expect from Johnston and Cummings. Very little care for people like the elderly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 08, 2020, 08:38:53 AM
Quote from: maddog on April 08, 2020, 08:21:24 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 07, 2020, 09:17:34 PM
Quote from: maddog on April 07, 2020, 07:58:51 PM
Quote from: maddog on April 07, 2020, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 07, 2020, 03:22:09 PM
What age? Is that in NI?

Edit: I should also say very sorry to hear that :(

thanks
He would be in North Yorkshire. He'd be the 80 mark but as fit as a fiddle up until last week. Sound aul skin too.

He passed away few hours ago. RIP

Oh that's awful. I'm really sorry for your loss.


It just seems so unfair that a man that has paid his way all his life, had 2 daughters NHS nurses and a son in law an NHS doctor gets thrown on the scrap heap. I know they have to prioritise given the present resources but it should never have come to this.

Sorry for your loss - its brutal.

Doctors/nurses having to play God (through no fault of their own) must also take an immense toll mentally.

When this is over how many of them will need psychological help?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 08, 2020, 08:40:45 AM
I was thinking exactly the same. There is going to be extreme PTSD for quite a few of them :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 08, 2020, 08:42:38 AM
Just announced that the ICU is now full at the Mater in Dublin.

This would indicate there is going to be an increase in deaths going by previous instances in different countries.

Will be interesting to hear how many empty beds there is in other hospitals
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on April 08, 2020, 08:56:33 AM
Quote from: Taylor on April 08, 2020, 08:42:38 AM
Just announced that the ICU is now full at the Mater in Dublin.

This would indicate there is going to be an increase in deaths going by previous instances in different countries.

Will be interesting to hear how many empty beds there is in other hospitals
Listening to what they're saying, the 18 ICU beds are full, but they can double that number in theory by setting up a High Dependency Unit next door.  I don't think it means they are fully at their limit just yet.

The ventilator age limit in the north is/will be 70.  Frightening, when I consider that my parents are past that limit. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 08:56:57 AM
What date did they say the South was going to have their Peak?

If the ICU beds are full in Dublin are you unable to go elsewhere if other hospitals have free ICU beds?

Has the Irish government purchased more ventilators from the company in Galway?

Getting regular messages now of people contacting the virus or dying! Also ones being told that they won't get a ventilator if required!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 08, 2020, 08:58:17 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 08, 2020, 08:32:28 AM
I had heard that in Italy it started off that if you were over 75 you wouldn't get a ventilator but then with so many cases that ended up down at 40(a few weeks ago so may have lowered)  :(

Very sad for someone to live their life so long and then to die just like that and when you look at how the UK have handled it thus far it has been very poor as you'd expect from Johnston and Cummings. Very little care for people like the elderly.

Where are you getting this info from?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aaron Boone on April 08, 2020, 09:01:57 AM
Wuhan relaxed its lockdwn this week after 11 weeks, so still a bit to go for us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 08, 2020, 09:22:43 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 08, 2020, 08:58:17 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 08, 2020, 08:32:28 AM
I had heard that in Italy it started off that if you were over 75 you wouldn't get a ventilator but then with so many cases that ended up down at 40(a few weeks ago so may have lowered)  :(

Very sad for someone to live their life so long and then to die just like that and when you look at how the UK have handled it thus far it has been very poor as you'd expect from Johnston and Cummings. Very little care for people like the elderly.

Where are you getting this info from?

It was a workmate who's brother told him. I would tend to trust him though it does sound extreme but these doctors I know from another source in England have to make decisions and there has to be some criteria applied.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wee Roddy on April 08, 2020, 09:23:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 08, 2020, 08:32:28 AM
I had heard that in Italy it started off that if you were over 75 you wouldn't get a ventilator but then with so many cases that ended up down at 40(a few weeks ago so may have lowered)  :(

Very sad for someone to live their life so long and then to die just like that and when you look at how the UK have handled it thus far it has been very poor as you'd expect from Johnston and Cummings. Very little care for people like the elderly.
The Italy statistic is incorrect. There always are some seriously inaccurate statistic being reported by the press but it seems now that there is nothing else to report on they just make up what they want.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 08, 2020, 09:27:27 AM
If you know it to be incorrect then do you know what's correct though? (That is not a dig I would genuinely be interested as my "source" wasn't the media)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 08, 2020, 09:37:44 AM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on April 08, 2020, 09:01:57 AM
Wuhan relaxed its lockdwn this week after 11 weeks, so still a bit to go for us.

Wuhan has 11 million odd people in it and was the centre of the outbreak though. By density and geography (Lack of Chinese New Year movement also) you'd hope that we can avoid what other countries are experiencing by comparison.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 09:41:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 08, 2020, 09:37:44 AM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on April 08, 2020, 09:01:57 AM
Wuhan relaxed its lockdwn this week after 11 weeks, so still a bit to go for us.

Wuhan has 11 million odd people in it and was the centre of the outbreak though. By density and geography (Lack of Chinese New Year movement also) you'd hope that we can avoid what other countries are experiencing by comparison.

Are we at the point were the impact of Cheltenham and not stopping flights from the likes of Italy (cancelled rugby match) is starting to hit?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 08, 2020, 09:52:33 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 09:41:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 08, 2020, 09:37:44 AM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on April 08, 2020, 09:01:57 AM
Wuhan relaxed its lockdwn this week after 11 weeks, so still a bit to go for us.

Wuhan has 11 million odd people in it and was the centre of the outbreak though. By density and geography (Lack of Chinese New Year movement also) you'd hope that we can avoid what other countries are experiencing by comparison.

Are we at the point were the impact of Cheltenham and not stopping flights from the likes of Italy (cancelled rugby match) is starting to hit?

Has to have had some sort of impact for sure - similarly Liverpool area had a spike in cases due to the Athletico fans attending a game.

In addition to this our airports are still open with minimal screening  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 09:56:28 AM
Quote from: Taylor on April 08, 2020, 09:52:33 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 09:41:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 08, 2020, 09:37:44 AM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on April 08, 2020, 09:01:57 AM
Wuhan relaxed its lockdwn this week after 11 weeks, so still a bit to go for us.

Wuhan has 11 million odd people in it and was the centre of the outbreak though. By density and geography (Lack of Chinese New Year movement also) you'd hope that we can avoid what other countries are experiencing by comparison.

Are we at the point were the impact of Cheltenham and not stopping flights from the likes of Italy (cancelled rugby match) is starting to hit?

Has to have had some sort of impact for sure - similarly Liverpool area had a spike in cases due to the Athletico fans attending a game.

In addition to this our airports are still open with minimal screening  :o

Still open? I take it that's just to bring back the stranded? I'm sure most of them would have been home by now or stayed?

Though I'd imagine they would have to self isolate for 2 weeks on arrival
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 08, 2020, 10:06:11 AM
https://www.dublinairport.com/flight-information/live-arrivals (https://www.dublinairport.com/flight-information/live-arrivals)

https://www.airportia.com/united-kingdom/belfast-international-airport/arrivals/ (https://www.airportia.com/united-kingdom/belfast-international-airport/arrivals/)

Not too many but a reasonable few flights.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on April 08, 2020, 10:07:09 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 08, 2020, 10:06:11 AM
https://www.dublinairport.com/flight-information/live-arrivals (https://www.dublinairport.com/flight-information/live-arrivals)

https://www.airportia.com/united-kingdom/belfast-international-airport/arrivals/ (https://www.airportia.com/united-kingdom/belfast-international-airport/arrivals/)

Not too many but a reasonable few flights.

Irish advice is if you're coming in from anywhere not the North you have to self isolate for 2 weeks. Not sure about the UK advice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 08, 2020, 10:15:31 AM
Quote from: Rois on April 08, 2020, 08:56:33 AM
The ventilator age limit in the north is/will be 70.  Frightening, when I consider that my parents are past that limit.

Where did you get that from?

One of wives friends is ICU - and I'd heard via that it was 58...  :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on April 08, 2020, 10:25:17 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 08, 2020, 10:15:31 AM
Quote from: Rois on April 08, 2020, 08:56:33 AM
The ventilator age limit in the north is/will be 70.  Frightening, when I consider that my parents are past that limit.

Where did you get that from?

One of wives friends is ICU - and I'd heard via that it was 58...  :-\
The font of all knowledge for me on this - my sister (consultant in the Ulster but not in ICU, taking part in daily briefings on it but perhaps a day behind).  I thought 70 was scary enough, but 58...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: Rois on April 08, 2020, 10:25:17 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 08, 2020, 10:15:31 AM
Quote from: Rois on April 08, 2020, 08:56:33 AM
The ventilator age limit in the north is/will be 70.  Frightening, when I consider that my parents are past that limit.

Where did you get that from?

One of wives friends is ICU - and I'd heard via that it was 58...  :-\
The font of all knowledge for me on this - my sister (consultant in the Ulster but not in ICU, taking part in daily briefings on it but perhaps a day behind).  I thought 70 was scary enough, but 58...

Why is age being used as a reason?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 08, 2020, 10:35:51 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 09:56:28 AM
Quote from: Taylor on April 08, 2020, 09:52:33 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 09:41:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 08, 2020, 09:37:44 AM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on April 08, 2020, 09:01:57 AM
Wuhan relaxed its lockdwn this week after 11 weeks, so still a bit to go for us.

Wuhan has 11 million odd people in it and was the centre of the outbreak though. By density and geography (Lack of Chinese New Year movement also) you'd hope that we can avoid what other countries are experiencing by comparison.

Are we at the point were the impact of Cheltenham and not stopping flights from the likes of Italy (cancelled rugby match) is starting to hit?

Has to have had some sort of impact for sure - similarly Liverpool area had a spike in cases due to the Athletico fans attending a game.

In addition to this our airports are still open with minimal screening  :o

Still open? I take it that's just to bring back the stranded? I'm sure most of them would have been home by now or stayed?

Though I'd imagine they would have to self isolate for 2 weeks on arrival

They should be taken to self isolate somewhere - assume it is just advice at this stage
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on April 08, 2020, 10:36:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 10:28:13 AM

Why is age being used as a reason?

I assume it is supposed to be loosely based on chances of survival.  I just don't know what evidence there is to support it.
   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 08, 2020, 10:49:01 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 08, 2020, 10:15:31 AM
Quote from: Rois on April 08, 2020, 08:56:33 AM
The ventilator age limit in the north is/will be 70.  Frightening, when I consider that my parents are past that limit.

Where did you get that from?

One of wives friends is ICU - and I'd heard via that it was 58...  :-\

It may have been as low as 58 in Madrid or Bergamo, or now in New  York. It isn't  that bad here, thanks be to God.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 08, 2020, 11:08:51 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-52189059/coronavirus-israel-s-ultra-orthodox-lockdown-challenge
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 11:20:23 AM
Quote from: Rois on April 08, 2020, 10:36:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 10:28:13 AM

Why is age being used as a reason?

I assume it is supposed to be loosely based on chances of survival.  I just don't know what evidence there is to support it.
   

I suppose there is no proper solution for choosing, I can't honestly think of a fair call, and the guilt that a doctor will have on their minds is terrible.  Sophie's choice scenario!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 08, 2020, 11:21:31 AM
Quote from: Rois on April 08, 2020, 10:25:17 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 08, 2020, 10:15:31 AM
Quote from: Rois on April 08, 2020, 08:56:33 AM
The ventilator age limit in the north is/will be 70.  Frightening, when I consider that my parents are past that limit.

Where did you get that from?

One of wives friends is ICU - and I'd heard via that it was 58...  :-\
The font of all knowledge for me on this - my sister (consultant in the Ulster but not in ICU, taking part in daily briefings on it but perhaps a day behind).  I thought 70 was scary enough, but 58...

I have to admit, I was pretty sceptical that the missus was picking it up right (wouldn't be the first time!)

I would have thought age/requirements would get worse depending on demand and initially would have started very high, if not unlimited.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 08, 2020, 11:24:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 11:20:23 AM
Quote from: Rois on April 08, 2020, 10:36:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 10:28:13 AM
Why is age being used as a reason?
I assume it is supposed to be loosely based on chances of survival.  I just don't know what evidence there is to support it. 
I suppose there is no proper solution for choosing, I can't honestly think of a fair call, and the guilt that a doctor will have on their minds is terrible.  Sophie's choice scenario!

I'd have thought its best for the medics on the scene if the decision making process is as tickbox as possible.

It would offload as much of the responsibility as possible from those actually in the wards/ICUs - crap for the patient but might stop the medics from breaking down (now and/or later).

One of those rare instances where "computer says no" is perhaps the lesser of two evils.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 08, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: Rois on April 08, 2020, 10:25:17 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 08, 2020, 10:15:31 AM
Quote from: Rois on April 08, 2020, 08:56:33 AM
The ventilator age limit in the north is/will be 70.  Frightening, when I consider that my parents are past that limit.

Where did you get that from?

One of wives friends is ICU - and I'd heard via that it was 58...  :-\
The font of all knowledge for me on this - my sister (consultant in the Ulster but not in ICU, taking part in daily briefings on it but perhaps a day behind).  I thought 70 was scary enough, but 58...

Why is age being used as a reason?
I think it is down to years left to live if saved. According to the BMA where resources are scarce it is ethical to take the ventilator and give it someone with a better prognosis!! 

....If they become necessary, these decisions must not be solely based on age. Ethically, triage requires identification of clinically relevant facts about individual patients and their likelihood of benefiting from available resources. Younger patients will not automatically be prioritised over older one.....

..... A healthy 75-year-old cannot lawfully be denied access to treatment on the basis of age. However, older patients with severe respiratory failure secondary to COVID-19 may have a very high chance of dying despite intensive care, and consequently have a lower priority for admission to intensive care....

https://www.bma.org.uk/media/2226/bma-covid-19-ethics-guidance.pdf
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 11:41:26 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 08, 2020, 11:24:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 11:20:23 AM
Quote from: Rois on April 08, 2020, 10:36:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 10:28:13 AM
Why is age being used as a reason?
I assume it is supposed to be loosely based on chances of survival.  I just don't know what evidence there is to support it. 
I suppose there is no proper solution for choosing, I can't honestly think of a fair call, and the guilt that a doctor will have on their minds is terrible.  Sophie's choice scenario!

I'd have thought its best for the medics on the scene if the decision making process is as tickbox as possible.

It would offload as much of the responsibility as possible from those actually in the wards/ICUs - crap for the patient but might stop the medics from breaking down (now and/or later).

One of those rare instances where "computer says no" is perhaps the lesser of two evils.

So there is no government guidelines on this? Purely on the advice medics on the scene?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 08, 2020, 11:56:24 AM
55 for smokers, 75 for normal people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 08, 2020, 11:58:44 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 08, 2020, 11:56:24 AM
55 for smokers, 75 for normal people.

Normal?

..... A healthy 75-year-old cannot lawfully be denied access to treatment on the basis of age. However, older patients with severe respiratory failure secondary to COVID-19 may have a very high chance of dying despite intensive care, and consequently have a lower priority for admission to intensive care....

https://www.bma.org.uk/media/2226/bma-covid-19-ethics-guidance.pdf
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 08, 2020, 12:00:12 PM
It's basic triage - focus on those who need help and are likely to make it. Even a first aider has to do it in extreme circumstances e.g. in a traffic accident.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 08, 2020, 12:16:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 08, 2020, 11:56:24 AM
55 for smokers, 75 for normal people.

They should print that on feg packets.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 08, 2020, 01:51:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 11:41:26 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 08, 2020, 11:24:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 11:20:23 AM
Quote from: Rois on April 08, 2020, 10:36:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 10:28:13 AM
Why is age being used as a reason?
I assume it is supposed to be loosely based on chances of survival.  I just don't know what evidence there is to support it. 
I suppose there is no proper solution for choosing, I can't honestly think of a fair call, and the guilt that a doctor will have on their minds is terrible.  Sophie's choice scenario!

I'd have thought its best for the medics on the scene if the decision making process is as tickbox as possible.

It would offload as much of the responsibility as possible from those actually in the wards/ICUs - crap for the patient but might stop the medics from breaking down (now and/or later).

One of those rare instances where "computer says no" is perhaps the lesser of two evils.

So there is no government guidelines on this? Purely on the advice medics on the scene?

No no, we're crossing wires - I'm saying there is, or should be at least, strict guidelines.

Hence whoever is on the scene runs down their tickboxes and the result of that says ye or ne on a ventilator. Would be easier mentally for the doc/nurse on scene if the decision is removed from their hands as much as possible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 08, 2020, 01:53:40 PM
This could be a massive help if it proves out...

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/q-and-a-tb-vaccine-may-boost-the-bodys-immune-system-to-fight-coronavirus-39112346.html

I know I got the vaccine, and everyone* that is older than 5 also got it (*except those idiotic tin foil hat anti-vax crowd).

I've been thinking about the exit strategies available to governments and its clear there are none to appealing but this might just be the thing that is needed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 01:54:48 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 08, 2020, 01:51:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 11:41:26 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 08, 2020, 11:24:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 11:20:23 AM
Quote from: Rois on April 08, 2020, 10:36:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 10:28:13 AM
Why is age being used as a reason?
I assume it is supposed to be loosely based on chances of survival.  I just don't know what evidence there is to support it. 
I suppose there is no proper solution for choosing, I can't honestly think of a fair call, and the guilt that a doctor will have on their minds is terrible.  Sophie's choice scenario!

I'd have thought its best for the medics on the scene if the decision making process is as tickbox as possible.

It would offload as much of the responsibility as possible from those actually in the wards/ICUs - crap for the patient but might stop the medics from breaking down (now and/or later).

One of those rare instances where "computer says no" is perhaps the lesser of two evils.

So there is no government guidelines on this? Purely on the advice medics on the scene?

No no, we're crossing wires - I'm saying there is, or should be at least, strict guidelines.

Hence whoever is on the scene runs down their tickboxes and the result of that says ye or ne on a ventilator. Would be easier mentally for the doc/nurse on scene if the decision is removed from their hands as much as possible.

Fair enough, but someone had to make that choice, there'll be liability issues after it's all said and done unfortunately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 08, 2020, 01:58:20 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 08, 2020, 12:16:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 08, 2020, 11:56:24 AM
55 for smokers, 75 for normal people.

They should print that on feg packets.

I can't get figures in any country for a smokers v non smokers infection and/or death rate.

Anyone seen this data?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on April 08, 2020, 02:08:56 PM
My sister is an A&E nurse and they have been told elderly patients with COVID-19 are not to be resucitated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 08, 2020, 02:27:10 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/899407b1-928d-4e23-a951-0e15fc0a98c7

The US can confidently return to work only after there is adequate capacity in hospitals; a broad public health infrastructure to support testing; robust contact tracing to curtail "hotspots"; and widespread availability of blood testing to see who is immune. We see this happening in waves starting in the midsummer.  But we do not expect 100 per cent of US workers to return until there is a vaccine available, as social distancing cannot be relaxed fully without one. Further, large venue events such as sport, concerts and theme parks are likely to remain shut or attendance capped at 10-25 per cent of previous levels. This delayed peak and slow return to work has led our economists to push back projections for a significant US recovery to the third quarter of next year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on April 08, 2020, 02:28:01 PM
I was about to post something here suggesting that in all of the media reports of deaths etc around Coronavirus in the UK, black and asian people tend to be over-represented and then I found the article here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/bame-groups-hit-harder-covid-19-than-white-people-uk 

I wonder does this give credence to the reports that the BCG vaccine may help with immunity towards it. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-more-striking-evidence-bcg-vaccine-might-protect-against-covid-19-1.4222110

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on April 08, 2020, 03:00:37 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on April 08, 2020, 02:08:56 PM
My sister is an A&E nurse and they have been told elderly patients with COVID-19 are not to be resucitated.
So if Prince Charles was diabetic and was admitted to a hospital they would let him die even though he has a very mild dose of COVID-19?  That's basically Euthanasia.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 08, 2020, 03:06:39 PM
Quote from: APM on April 08, 2020, 02:28:01 PM
I was about to post something here suggesting that in all of the media reports of deaths etc around Coronavirus in the UK, black and asian people tend to be over-represented and then I found the article here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/bame-groups-hit-harder-covid-19-than-white-people-uk 

I wonder does this give credence to the reports that the BCG vaccine may help with immunity towards it. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-more-striking-evidence-bcg-vaccine-might-protect-against-covid-19-1.4222110

Higher rates of mortality is occurring among black and Hispanic populations in the US too.

Two simple and obvious reasons for it:

1. Higher proportions of "essential" workers are black and Hispanic. They tend to be employed in a lot of the public and lower wage jobs and are more likely to still be out and about, interacting with people and patients while they work.
2. Poorer health outcomes due to less access to preventative healthcare. ER is often the primary care available to them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 08, 2020, 03:10:07 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on April 08, 2020, 02:08:56 PM
My sister is an A&E nurse and they have been told elderly patients with COVID-19 are not to be resucitated.

was there not a bit of a dispute at the Causeway coast hospital about an elderly lady being admitted and being asked to sign a DNR on admittance.

That wasn't some low level staff doing a solo run IMO.

Desperate times
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on April 08, 2020, 03:42:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 08, 2020, 03:06:39 PM
Quote from: APM on April 08, 2020, 02:28:01 PM
I was about to post something here suggesting that in all of the media reports of deaths etc around Coronavirus in the UK, black and asian people tend to be over-represented and then I found the article here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/bame-groups-hit-harder-covid-19-than-white-people-uk 

I wonder does this give credence to the reports that the BCG vaccine may help with immunity towards it. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-more-striking-evidence-bcg-vaccine-might-protect-against-covid-19-1.4222110

Higher rates of mortality is occurring among black and Hispanic populations in the US too.

Two simple and obvious reasons for it:

1. Higher proportions of "essential" workers are black and Hispanic. They tend to be employed in a lot of the public and lower wage jobs and are more likely to still be out and about, interacting with people and patients while they work.
2. Poorer health outcomes due to less access to preventative healthcare. ER is often the primary care available to them.

Funny, I think that's also spot on and the epidemiologists will be considering the cause and effect. There could also be an interesting discussion here about outbreaks in care homes for example.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 08, 2020, 04:03:40 PM
Quote from: APM on April 08, 2020, 02:28:01 PM
I was about to post something here suggesting that in all of the media reports of deaths etc around Coronavirus in the UK, black and asian people tend to be over-represented and then I found the article here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/bame-groups-hit-harder-covid-19-than-white-people-uk 

I wonder does this give credence to the reports that the BCG vaccine may help with immunity towards it. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-more-striking-evidence-bcg-vaccine-might-protect-against-covid-19-1.4222110

BCG is an interesting one (although Im sure they are exhausting every possible link). I Would like to see a chart of countries that used this as a vacine for TB.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 08, 2020, 04:09:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 01:54:48 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 08, 2020, 01:51:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 11:41:26 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 08, 2020, 11:24:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 11:20:23 AM
Quote from: Rois on April 08, 2020, 10:36:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 10:28:13 AM
Why is age being used as a reason?
I assume it is supposed to be loosely based on chances of survival.  I just don't know what evidence there is to support it. 
I suppose there is no proper solution for choosing, I can't honestly think of a fair call, and the guilt that a doctor will have on their minds is terrible.  Sophie's choice scenario!

I'd have thought its best for the medics on the scene if the decision making process is as tickbox as possible.

It would offload as much of the responsibility as possible from those actually in the wards/ICUs - crap for the patient but might stop the medics from breaking down (now and/or later).

One of those rare instances where "computer says no" is perhaps the lesser of two evils.

So there is no government guidelines on this? Purely on the advice medics on the scene?

No no, we're crossing wires - I'm saying there is, or should be at least, strict guidelines.

Hence whoever is on the scene runs down their tickboxes and the result of that says ye or ne on a ventilator. Would be easier mentally for the doc/nurse on scene if the decision is removed from their hands as much as possible.

Fair enough, but someone had to make that choice, there'll be liability issues after it's all said and done unfortunately.
My understanding was that hospitals adopted "the 3 wise men" approach when it came to making the choice between who got a ventilator.? Thats what a consultant working with covid patients informed me. Open to correction. Harrowing circumstances, and I've heard similar stories from the hospital here regarding age for ventilators etc, and again that was all from people working there on the front line.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 08, 2020, 04:31:00 PM
Quote from: APM on April 08, 2020, 02:28:01 PM
I was about to post something here suggesting that in all of the media reports of deaths etc around Coronavirus in the UK, black and asian people tend to be over-represented and then I found the article here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/bame-groups-hit-harder-covid-19-than-white-people-uk 

I wonder does this give credence to the reports that the BCG vaccine may help with immunity towards it. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-more-striking-evidence-bcg-vaccine-might-protect-against-covid-19-1.4222110

Correlation does not indicate causality obviously - but hopefully the last couple of paragraphs in that IT article lead to something

QuoteUS virologist Robert Gallo of the Institute of Human Virology in Maryland has confirmed he is working with a team who will make an announcement shortly that will have "a major effect" on global efforts to tackle Covid-19.

Best known for his role in the discovery of HIV as the infectious agent responsible for AIDS, Prof Gallo did not go into detail other than to indicate it involves deployment of "an adjusted existing vaccine" that will be available within months.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wee Roddy on April 08, 2020, 04:35:20 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 08, 2020, 09:27:27 AM
If you know it to be incorrect then do you know what's correct though? (That is not a dig I would genuinely be interested as my "source" wasn't the media)
I do know that people well over the age of 40 have been on them in Italy. I have an English cousin who lives in Genoa who is married to a nurse. I have no stats though, sorry.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 08, 2020, 04:54:17 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 08, 2020, 04:31:00 PM
Quote from: APM on April 08, 2020, 02:28:01 PM
I was about to post something here suggesting that in all of the media reports of deaths etc around Coronavirus in the UK, black and asian people tend to be over-represented and then I found the article here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/bame-groups-hit-harder-covid-19-than-white-people-uk 

I wonder does this give credence to the reports that the BCG vaccine may help with immunity towards it. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-more-striking-evidence-bcg-vaccine-might-protect-against-covid-19-1.4222110

Correlation does not indicate causality obviously - but hopefully the last couple of paragraphs in that IT article lead to something

QuoteUS virologist Robert Gallo of the Institute of Human Virology in Maryland has confirmed he is working with a team who will make an announcement shortly that will have "a major effect" on global efforts to tackle Covid-19.

Best known for his role in the discovery of HIV as the infectious agent responsible for AIDS, Prof Gallo did not go into detail other than to indicate it involves deployment of "an adjusted existing vaccine" that will be available within months.

A bit on the news the other night (C4 I think) about a vaccine initially created for Ebola (which didn't work) is being lab tested with some positive signs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 08, 2020, 05:06:37 PM
936 UK deaths in 24 hours. Highest Italy recorded was 971 and UK is still probably a week or so off the peak.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 08, 2020, 05:25:20 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 08, 2020, 04:03:40 PM
BCG is an interesting one (although Im sure they are exhausting every possible link). I Would like to see a chart of countries that used this as a vacine for TB.

This is from a paper published but not yet reviewed by people in the New York Institute of Technology. Note the scale on the left is log and the data was from March.
This paper seems to be a predecessor to the people in Texas discussed in the Irish newspapers.
Put it this way, if my GP was offering a BCG booster I'd be down there in a shot.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUZHcIoWoAIg6Hj.jpg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on April 08, 2020, 05:53:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 08, 2020, 05:25:20 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 08, 2020, 04:03:40 PM
BCG is an interesting one (although Im sure they are exhausting every possible link). I Would like to see a chart of countries that used this as a vacine for TB.

This is from a paper published but not yet reviewed by people in the New York Institute of Technology. Note the scale on the left is log and the data was from March.
This paper seems to be a predecessor to the people in Texas discussed in the Irish newspapers.
Put it this way, if my GP was offering a BCG booster I'd be down there in a shot.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUZHcIoWoAIg6Hj.jpg)
medcram a doctor who does a video every couple of days on YouTube was talking about this 2 weeks ago
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on April 08, 2020, 05:53:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 08, 2020, 05:25:20 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 08, 2020, 04:03:40 PM
BCG is an interesting one (although Im sure they are exhausting every possible link). I Would like to see a chart of countries that used this as a vacine for TB.

This is from a paper published but not yet reviewed by people in the New York Institute of Technology. Note the scale on the left is log and the data was from March.
This paper seems to be a predecessor to the people in Texas discussed in the Irish newspapers.
Put it this way, if my GP was offering a BCG booster I'd be down there in a shot.


The UK figures look to be heading to a bad place and doubt that they would fit neatly into that chart, given that a BCG programme there. The reason I mentioned the ethnicity factor above, was that I was wondering if there is a greater incidence among immigrants in the UK.  The UK did have a BCG programme, but immigrants would have missed out, depending on where they came from.  But as J70 points out, the cause here may be something completely different.   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 08, 2020, 07:04:07 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 08, 2020, 05:06:37 PM
936 UK deaths in 24 hours. Highest Italy recorded was 971 and UK is still probably a week or so off the peak.

Yup, it's not looking good for the UK.

"The Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) in Seattle predicts 66,000 UK deaths from Covid-19 by August, with a peak of nearly 3,000 a day, based on a steep climb in daily deaths early in the outbreak."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/uk-will-be-europes-worst-hit-by-coronavirus-study-predicts
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 07:15:56 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 08, 2020, 07:04:07 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 08, 2020, 05:06:37 PM
936 UK deaths in 24 hours. Highest Italy recorded was 971 and UK is still probably a week or so off the peak.

Yup, it's not looking good for the UK.

"The Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) in Seattle predicts 66,000 UK deaths from Covid-19 by August, with a peak of nearly 3,000 a day, based on a steep climb in daily deaths early in the outbreak."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/uk-will-be-europes-worst-hit-by-coronavirus-study-predicts

Thats well below the worst predicted figures, anything from 20,000 to 200,000!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on April 08, 2020, 07:25:54 PM
That BCG thing is a complete red herring. Everyone bar the immigrants in the UK were vaccinated from 1952 to 2005. Yet the UK looks like it's going to be a particularly hard hit country.

More telling from that data is that the poorer countries have a lesser incidence.

Telling people to run down to their gp and get the bcg vaccine which the vast vast majority of us have got already is reckless and irresponsible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 08, 2020, 07:40:31 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2020, 07:25:54 PM
That BCG thing is a complete red herring. Everyone bar the immigrants in the UK were vaccinated from 1952 to 2005. Yet the UK looks like it's going to be a particularly hard hit country.

You can't say that it is or isn't until you control for other factors; density of population, temperature and above all the extent and timing of measures. Nowhere in the world is the virus being allowed to proceed without intervention and those interventions may have a larger effect than BCG.
Also as noted earlier in the thread, nation-states are probably not the unit of analysis to use, rather regions. The 133 dead in Sicily compares well with the ROI, showing that Italy is not homogeneous. New York State now has more confirmed virus cases, 149,316, than any country in the world outside the United States.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 08:03:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 08, 2020, 07:40:31 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2020, 07:25:54 PM
That BCG thing is a complete red herring. Everyone bar the immigrants in the UK were vaccinated from 1952 to 2005. Yet the UK looks like it's going to be a particularly hard hit country.

You can't say that it is or isn't until you control for other factors; density of population, temperature and above all the extent and timing of measures. Nowhere in the world is the virus being allowed to proceed without intervention and those interventions may have a larger effect than BCG.
Also as noted earlier in the thread, nation-states are probably not the unit of analysis to use, rather regions. The 133 dead in Sicily compares well with the ROI, showing that Italy is not homogeneous. New York State now has more confirmed virus cases, 149,316, than any country in the world outside the United States.

Will we ever get the proper figures for the likes of Russia and China? Russia has only 63 deaths?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on April 08, 2020, 08:15:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 08:03:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 08, 2020, 07:40:31 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2020, 07:25:54 PM
That BCG thing is a complete red herring. Everyone bar the immigrants in the UK were vaccinated from 1952 to 2005. Yet the UK looks like it's going to be a particularly hard hit country.

You can't say that it is or isn't until you control for other factors; density of population, temperature and above all the extent and timing of measures. Nowhere in the world is the virus being allowed to proceed without intervention and those interventions may have a larger effect than BCG.
Also as noted earlier in the thread, nation-states are probably not the unit of analysis to use, rather regions. The 133 dead in Sicily compares well with the ROI, showing that Italy is not homogeneous. New York State now has more confirmed virus cases, 149,316, than any country in the world outside the United States.

Will we ever get the proper figures for the likes of Russia and China? Russia has only 63 deaths?
india
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 08, 2020, 08:20:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 08:03:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 08, 2020, 07:40:31 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2020, 07:25:54 PM
That BCG thing is a complete red herring. Everyone bar the immigrants in the UK were vaccinated from 1952 to 2005. Yet the UK looks like it's going to be a particularly hard hit country.

You can't say that it is or isn't until you control for other factors; density of population, temperature and above all the extent and timing of measures. Nowhere in the world is the virus being allowed to proceed without intervention and those interventions may have a larger effect than BCG.
Also as noted earlier in the thread, nation-states are probably not the unit of analysis to use, rather regions. The 133 dead in Sicily compares well with the ROI, showing that Italy is not homogeneous. New York State now has more confirmed virus cases, 149,316, than any country in the world outside the United States.

Will we ever get the proper figures for the likes of Russia and China? Russia has only 63 deaths?

Hong Kong has had 4 deaths and Taiwan 5.  China is comparable to these places, are they also fiddling the books.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 08:20:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 08, 2020, 08:15:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 08:03:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 08, 2020, 07:40:31 PM
Quote from: trileacman on April 08, 2020, 07:25:54 PM
That BCG thing is a complete red herring. Everyone bar the immigrants in the UK were vaccinated from 1952 to 2005. Yet the UK looks like it's going to be a particularly hard hit country.

You can't say that it is or isn't until you control for other factors; density of population, temperature and above all the extent and timing of measures. Nowhere in the world is the virus being allowed to proceed without intervention and those interventions may have a larger effect than BCG.
Also as noted earlier in the thread, nation-states are probably not the unit of analysis to use, rather regions. The 133 dead in Sicily compares well with the ROI, showing that Italy is not homogeneous. New York State now has more confirmed virus cases, 149,316, than any country in the world outside the United States.

Will we ever get the proper figures for the likes of Russia and China? Russia has only 63 deaths?
india

Crazy figure for India
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on April 08, 2020, 09:15:53 PM
Those holiday-homers taking a right bashing on social media. And Gardai creating massive traffic jams, which is a great deterrent!

Personally not sure how traveling in your car and go to your empty holiday home, and stick to the same regime of only leaving the house for your daily walk/exercise and for groceries would be increasing the risk of catching or spreading the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 08, 2020, 09:53:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 08, 2020, 09:15:53 PM
Those holiday-homers taking a right bashing on social media. And Gardai creating massive traffic jams, which is a great deterrent!

Personally not sure how traveling in your car and go to your empty holiday home, and stick to the same regime of only leaving the house for your daily walk/exercise and for groceries would be increasing the risk of catching or spreading the virus.
Same as walking in beauty spots, etc. Grand if you are the only one doing it. Not so good for the locals if the population of thei village double switch a crowd coming from places where the virus is more prevalent.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 08, 2020, 10:20:55 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 08, 2020, 09:15:53 PM
Those holiday-homers taking a right bashing on social media. And Gardai creating massive traffic jams, which is a great deterrent!

Personally not sure how traveling in your car and go to your empty holiday home, and stick to the same regime of only leaving the house for your daily walk/exercise and for groceries would be increasing the risk of catching or spreading the virus.

Apart from crowding certain spots, you are going to a different grocery shop and indirectly coming into contact with a whole different set of people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on April 08, 2020, 10:59:25 PM
Plus Letterkenny Hospital (an example) doesn't need 1.25x its usual population to manage, not just with C19 but other "normal" emergencies (road traffic accidents, falls etc).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 08, 2020, 11:02:43 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 08, 2020, 09:53:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 08, 2020, 09:15:53 PM
Those holiday-homers taking a right bashing on social media. And Gardai creating massive traffic jams, which is a great deterrent!

Personally not sure how traveling in your car and go to your empty holiday home, and stick to the same regime of only leaving the house for your daily walk/exercise and for groceries would be increasing the risk of catching or spreading the virus.
Same as walking in beauty spots, etc. Grand if you are the only one doing it. Not so good for the locals if the population of thei village double switch a crowd coming from places where the virus is more prevalent.

My wife asked if we could go to the beach a few weeks ago and I said no. Says I "What if everyone else gets the same idea? The place will be packed."

Sure enough it was in the papers the next day that beaches were getting so busy that they had to be closed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on April 08, 2020, 11:22:36 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0408/1129416-ppe-supplies/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0408/1129416-ppe-supplies/)


Fair play. 👏🏼👏🏼
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2020, 11:28:04 PM
Quote from: GJL on April 08, 2020, 11:22:36 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0408/1129416-ppe-supplies/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0408/1129416-ppe-supplies/)


Fair play. 👏🏼👏🏼

You'll have ones on complaining soon
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 08, 2020, 11:55:25 PM
Can't stand the fkrs but fair play to them.
Now how about Denis O'Brien, Dermot Desmond, Michael O'Leary etc following suit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on April 09, 2020, 08:11:49 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 08, 2020, 09:53:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 08, 2020, 09:15:53 PM
Those holiday-homers taking a right bashing on social media. And Gardai creating massive traffic jams, which is a great deterrent!

Personally not sure how traveling in your car and go to your empty holiday home, and stick to the same regime of only leaving the house for your daily walk/exercise and for groceries would be increasing the risk of catching or spreading the virus.
Same as walking in beauty spots, etc. Grand if you are the only one doing it. Not so good for the locals if the population of thei village double switch a crowd coming from places where the virus is more prevalent.
So even if you keep all the social distancing rules you're increasing risk? Maybe so. But if I lived in the city with small/no garden and was told I couldnt visit my remote holiday home (with big gardens and lovely views) and where I'd be less likely to meet people on my daily walk, but it would be a huge benefit to my mental health and my family's mental health, I'd be righty pissed off!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 09, 2020, 08:13:59 AM
Someone can go and live in their holiday home if they wish. It it the coming and going that is the problem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on April 09, 2020, 08:17:40 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 09, 2020, 08:13:59 AM
Someone can go and live in their holiday home if they wish. It it the coming and going that is the problem.
Don't think the virus passes through cars though. Unless the Gardai asks you to open your window and sticks his head to the edge, like was shown on RTE News yesterday evening !
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 09, 2020, 08:19:52 AM
Quote from: Hound on April 09, 2020, 08:11:49 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 08, 2020, 09:53:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 08, 2020, 09:15:53 PM
Those holiday-homers taking a right bashing on social media. And Gardai creating massive traffic jams, which is a great deterrent!

Personally not sure how traveling in your car and go to your empty holiday home, and stick to the same regime of only leaving the house for your daily walk/exercise and for groceries would be increasing the risk of catching or spreading the virus.
Same as walking in beauty spots, etc. Grand if you are the only one doing it. Not so good for the locals if the population of thei village double switch a crowd coming from places where the virus is more prevalent.
So even if you keep all the social distancing rules you're increasing risk? Maybe so. But if I lived in the city with small/no garden and was told I couldnt visit my remote holiday home (with big gardens and lovely views) and where I'd be less likely to meet people on my daily walk, but it would be a huge benefit to my mental health and my family's mental health, I'd be righty pissed off!

Dont often agree with you but I certainly can understand this. If i lived in a city and had a home elsewhere in the countryside I would have been gone to it weeks ago. I feel really sorry for kids in apartments and housing estates with very small gardens or perhaps communal gardens, it must be torture. There is something also very ugly about some of the stuff you hear from people like some Green Councillor down in Clare (RTE Radio 1 during the week) telling people from cities "they were not wanted", I heard similar from someone else supposed to be representing Achill Island. When this is over you are welcome to come back so we can fleece you.

Maybe we cant open up a free for all into small Irish villages from big cities but I think it might be actually a benefit if say people could apply to move to their holiday homes and government could facilitate X% of houses in some of these area to be filled.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 09, 2020, 08:38:55 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 09, 2020, 08:19:52 AM
Quote from: Hound on April 09, 2020, 08:11:49 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 08, 2020, 09:53:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 08, 2020, 09:15:53 PM
Those holiday-homers taking a right bashing on social media. And Gardai creating massive traffic jams, which is a great deterrent!

Personally not sure how traveling in your car and go to your empty holiday home, and stick to the same regime of only leaving the house for your daily walk/exercise and for groceries would be increasing the risk of catching or spreading the virus.
Same as walking in beauty spots, etc. Grand if you are the only one doing it. Not so good for the locals if the population of thei village double switch a crowd coming from places where the virus is more prevalent.
So even if you keep all the social distancing rules you're increasing risk? Maybe so. But if I lived in the city with small/no garden and was told I couldnt visit my remote holiday home (with big gardens and lovely views) and where I'd be less likely to meet people on my daily walk, but it would be a huge benefit to my mental health and my family's mental health, I'd be righty pissed off!

Dont often agree with you but I certainly can understand this. If i lived in a city and had a home elsewhere in the countryside I would have been gone to it weeks ago. I feel really sorry for kids in apartments and housing estates with very small gardens or perhaps communal gardens, it must be torture. There is something also very ugly about some of the stuff you hear from people like some Green Councillor down in Clare (RTE Radio 1 during the week) telling people from cities "they were not wanted", I heard similar from someone else supposed to be representing Achill Island. When this is over you are welcome to come back so we can fleece you.

Maybe we cant open up a free for all into small Irish villages from big cities but I think it might be actually a benefit if say people could apply to move to their holiday homes and government could facilitate X% of houses in some of these area to be filled.

There's two sides to this;

At the start of the lock-down in and around St Patricks day week I was in a local shop and it was bunged with caravaners out from the city and there was SFA in it due to panic buying and the influx of people into the area..

Some small villages won't be able to cope with the implementation of social distancing in small shops.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 09, 2020, 08:48:10 AM
UK posting some seriously bad figures at the minute according to John Hopkins;

60,733 confirmed cases
7,079 Deaths
135 recovered
53,501 active

looking at that, it's over 10% fatality rate, in fact its worse if you consider that of the 53,501 active cases there's a good chance of a high percentage of those will also die.

I suppose the fatality rate is skewed due to them not doing an awful lot of testing and of that 60,733 confirmed cases most are probably in hospital needing assistance.
One of their medical specials did think that the actual number of people with CV-19 was well in excess of 500,000 but that was a rough estimate.
I'd say even that is well short of reality.

They have really made a pigs ear of this and it's going to cost lives.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 09, 2020, 09:02:26 AM
I think any individual act regarding this seems harmless, but we have to look at everything through  the scope of the entire population. Rois's point is spot on. I think everyone just needs to make that personal sacrifice. 1000s of people having the same idea will cause problems.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 09, 2020, 09:26:29 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 09, 2020, 09:02:26 AM
I think any individual act regarding this seems harmless, but we have to look at everything through  the scope of the entire population. Rois's point is spot on. I think everyone just needs to make that personal sacrifice. 1000s of people having the same idea will cause problems.

Yup, the measures in place are quite explicit

Some people think they are special though and can flout them, they may think it has no consequence but it does. They apply to everyone so people need to stop being so selfish, we are all in the same boat. Unless you are leaving your house or grounds for one of the specific exemptions then you have absolutely no business being outside. It applies to everyone, you are not so special that you should be the only one who decides to break ranks on it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on April 09, 2020, 09:45:29 AM
Why would anyone forget/ignore the social distancing rules just because they go to a different home? Even forgetting about your civic duty to your fellow person, you primarily practice social distancing to save yourself

Irish Times today:
"Easter could be Ireland's Cheltenham"

There seems to be a consensus that everyone is going to the same place to have a big party!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 09, 2020, 09:51:03 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 09, 2020, 08:48:10 AM
UK posting some seriously bad figures at the minute according to John Hopkins;

60,733 confirmed cases
7,079 Deaths
135 recovered
53,501 active

looking at that, it's over 10% fatality rate, in fact its worse if you consider that of the 53,501 active cases there's a good chance of a high percentage of those will also die.

I suppose the fatality rate is skewed due to them not doing an awful lot of testing and of that 60,733 confirmed cases most are probably in hospital needing assistance.
One of their medical specials did think that the actual number of people with CV-19 was well in excess of 500,000 but that was a rough estimate.
I'd say even that is well short of reality.

They have really made a pigs ear of this and it's going to cost lives.

(https://nuk-tnl-deck-prod-static.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/uploads/b20314169f9b096cf0eae9d6956b1ab0.png)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on April 09, 2020, 09:56:40 AM

Quote from: Hound on April 09, 2020, 09:45:29 AM
Why would anyone forget/ignore the social distancing rules just because they go to a different home? Even forgetting about your civic duty to your fellow person, you primarily practice social distancing to save yourself

Irish Times today:
"Easter could be Ireland's Cheltenham"

There seems to be a consensus that everyone is going to the same place to have a big party!



But the problem is that many people are not practicing social distancing.  Particularly young people and if their parents, are disregarding the guidance by taking them to a holiday home, whose to say that they will practice social distancing when they get there.  Hence the risk of spreading the infection from a densely populated area to a less populated area.

The logic of one person deciding to go to a holiday home and behave responsibly is undeniable.  The problem arises when everyone takes that approach, and we end up with people travelling across the entire country.  What's worse is the view taken by people with money or status, like the Scottish CMO, that this doesn't really apply to me!

It needs to apply to everyone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 09, 2020, 10:12:44 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 09, 2020, 09:51:03 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 09, 2020, 08:48:10 AM
UK posting some seriously bad figures at the minute according to John Hopkins;

60,733 confirmed cases
7,079 Deaths
135 recovered
53,501 active

looking at that, it's over 10% fatality rate, in fact its worse if you consider that of the 53,501 active cases there's a good chance of a high percentage of those will also die.

I suppose the fatality rate is skewed due to them not doing an awful lot of testing and of that 60,733 confirmed cases most are probably in hospital needing assistance.
One of their medical specials did think that the actual number of people with CV-19 was well in excess of 500,000 but that was a rough estimate.
I'd say even that is well short of reality.

They have really made a pigs ear of this and it's going to cost lives.

(https://nuk-tnl-deck-prod-static.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/uploads/b20314169f9b096cf0eae9d6956b1ab0.png)

Would be interesting to see a similar chart with % of population from those areas in critical care
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 09, 2020, 10:14:34 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 09, 2020, 09:02:26 AM
I think any individual act regarding this seems harmless, but we have to look at everything through  the scope of the entire population. Rois's point is spot on. I think everyone just needs to make that personal sacrifice. 1000s of people having the same idea will cause problems.

That is exactly it. One person more getting it means that will spread no matter what with at least immediate family and then potentially health workers and then there is the extra load on the health system which will creak it further. Also if you're a key worker you could spread to colleagues if you get it before you know and all of that is how this thing could keep going and going never mind the wave 2.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on April 09, 2020, 11:47:06 AM
Quote from: APM on April 09, 2020, 09:56:40 AM

Quote from: Hound on April 09, 2020, 09:45:29 AM
Why would anyone forget/ignore the social distancing rules just because they go to a different home? Even forgetting about your civic duty to your fellow person, you primarily practice social distancing to save yourself

Irish Times today:
"Easter could be Ireland's Cheltenham"

There seems to be a consensus that everyone is going to the same place to have a big party!



But the problem is that many people are not practicing social distancing.  Particularly young people and if their parents, are disregarding the guidance by taking them to a holiday home, whose to say that they will practice social distancing when they get there.  Hence the risk of spreading the infection from a densely populated area to a less populated area.

The logic of one person deciding to go to a holiday home and behave responsibly is undeniable.  The problem arises when everyone takes that approach, and we end up with people travelling across the entire country.  What's worse is the view taken by people with money or status, like the Scottish CMO, that this doesn't really apply to me!

It needs to apply to everyone.
What we're really good at is calling people out on social media who haven't been adhering to the rules. And there'll always be gobshites somewhere, so I think that's great. And I've absolutely no problem with naming and shaming.

But I believe when these go viral they get way overblown and it looks like it's far far more prevalent than it is. "Young people" getting a particularly torrid time!
On calls/whatsapps with friends and colleagues I've been asked a few times if my teenagers are out meeting with their friends. FFS, of course not, they're not frickin morons and neither are their friends!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 12:20:48 PM
The holiday home thing is bunkum. Just an excuse for a splurge on Garda overtime and a distraction from our nursing homes turning into charnel houses on foot of bad decisions made by Tony Holohan and the government a month ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 09, 2020, 12:53:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 09, 2020, 08:38:55 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 09, 2020, 08:19:52 AM
Quote from: Hound on April 09, 2020, 08:11:49 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 08, 2020, 09:53:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 08, 2020, 09:15:53 PM
Those holiday-homers taking a right bashing on social media. And Gardai creating massive traffic jams, which is a great deterrent!

Personally not sure how traveling in your car and go to your empty holiday home, and stick to the same regime of only leaving the house for your daily walk/exercise and for groceries would be increasing the risk of catching or spreading the virus.
Same as walking in beauty spots, etc. Grand if you are the only one doing it. Not so good for the locals if the population of thei village double switch a crowd coming from places where the virus is more prevalent.
So even if you keep all the social distancing rules you're increasing risk? Maybe so. But if I lived in the city with small/no garden and was told I couldnt visit my remote holiday home (with big gardens and lovely views) and where I'd be less likely to meet people on my daily walk, but it would be a huge benefit to my mental health and my family's mental health, I'd be righty pissed off!

Dont often agree with you but I certainly can understand this. If i lived in a city and had a home elsewhere in the countryside I would have been gone to it weeks ago. I feel really sorry for kids in apartments and housing estates with very small gardens or perhaps communal gardens, it must be torture. There is something also very ugly about some of the stuff you hear from people like some Green Councillor down in Clare (RTE Radio 1 during the week) telling people from cities "they were not wanted", I heard similar from someone else supposed to be representing Achill Island. When this is over you are welcome to come back so we can fleece you.

Maybe we cant open up a free for all into small Irish villages from big cities but I think it might be actually a benefit if say people could apply to move to their holiday homes and government could facilitate X% of houses in some of these area to be filled.

There's two sides to this;

At the start of the lock-down in and around St Patricks day week I was in a local shop and it was bunged with caravaners out from the city and there was SFA in it due to panic buying and the influx of people into the area..

Some small villages won't be able to cope with the implementation of social distancing in small shops.

Or demands on local, limited, hospital resources if all these extra people start to get sick.

It's not just the west of Ireland where this debate is raging. Catskills/Hudson Valley and the Hamptons out on Long Island have seen a lot of local concern and resentment about NYC people leaving the city for second homes and Air BnBs and potentially bringing the virus with them.

We were supposed to be heading up to the Catskills ourselves today, but we cancelled it a couple of weeks ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on April 09, 2020, 01:00:08 PM
I spent 4 years in New York and never made it up to the catskills, has always been a regret.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 09, 2020, 01:06:20 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 12:20:48 PM
The holiday home thing is bunkum. Just an excuse for a splurge on Garda overtime and a distraction from our nursing homes turning into charnel houses on foot of bad decisions made by Tony Holohan and the government a month ago.

The HSE ballsed up big time regarding nursing homes, very little about it in the Irish media, its all Chelentham this and Boris Johnston that. Our lads can do no wrong  ::) Celebrity doctor was one of the first to get the virus, now the eggit is given full license on the media to tell us mere gobshites how not to get it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 09, 2020, 01:14:36 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 09, 2020, 01:06:20 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 12:20:48 PM
The holiday home thing is bunkum. Just an excuse for a splurge on Garda overtime and a distraction from our nursing homes turning into charnel houses on foot of bad decisions made by Tony Holohan and the government a month ago.

The HSE ballsed up big time regarding nursing homes, very little about it in the Irish media, its all Chelentham this and Boris Johnston that. Our lads can do no wrong  ::) Celebrity doctor was one of the first to get the virus, now the eggit is given full license on the media to tell us mere gobshites how not to get it.

It is easy to point out mistakes in the past and the nursing homes clearly were a failure, although one found in many countries.
However, it is what it is, it isn't as easy to say what should be done in the future.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 09, 2020, 01:19:35 PM
Quote from: ardtole on April 09, 2020, 01:00:08 PM
I spent 4 years in New York and never made it up to the catskills, has always been a regret.

Stunningly beautiful area. We go up five or six times a year, although not yet for the skiing.

Someday, if fortune favours us, we'll hopefully buy a wee place up there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 09, 2020, 01:30:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 09, 2020, 01:14:36 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 09, 2020, 01:06:20 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 12:20:48 PM
The holiday home thing is bunkum. Just an excuse for a splurge on Garda overtime and a distraction from our nursing homes turning into charnel houses on foot of bad decisions made by Tony Holohan and the government a month ago.

The HSE ballsed up big time regarding nursing homes, very little about it in the Irish media, its all Chelentham this and Boris Johnston that. Our lads can do no wrong  ::) Celebrity doctor was one of the first to get the virus, now the eggit is given full license on the media to tell us mere gobshites how not to get it.

It is easy to point out mistakes in the past and the nursing homes clearly were a failure, although one found in many countries.
However, it is what it is, it isn't as easy to say what should be done in the future.

Certain things were only changed 4 days ago, medical contractors working with people who had the virus & then working some hours in nursing homes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 09, 2020, 01:37:17 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 12:20:48 PM
The holiday home thing is bunkum. Just an excuse for a splurge on Garda overtime and a distraction from our nursing homes turning into charnel houses on foot of bad decisions made by Tony Holohan and the government a month ago.
Anybody should just be able to go where they want?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 01:40:33 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 09, 2020, 01:37:17 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 12:20:48 PM
The holiday home thing is bunkum. Just an excuse for a splurge on Garda overtime and a distraction from our nursing homes turning into charnel houses on foot of bad decisions made by Tony Holohan and the government a month ago.
Anybody should just be able to go where they want?
No, the fuss about holiday homes is bunkum.

But I have no problem with people travelling the length of the country once they keep to themselves and don't come into contact with others. If that means they would be banned from local shops and from filling stations etc en route, I'm fine with that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 09, 2020, 01:42:54 PM
Seen dates of relaxation of lockdown in countries like Germany and Denmark end of April, mentioned even possible schools going back. Was on the Peston show, think he had a Danish ex minister on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 09, 2020, 01:49:07 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 01:40:33 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 09, 2020, 01:37:17 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 12:20:48 PM
The holiday home thing is bunkum. Just an excuse for a splurge on Garda overtime and a distraction from our nursing homes turning into charnel houses on foot of bad decisions made by Tony Holohan and the government a month ago.
Anybody should just be able to go where they want?
No, the fuss about holiday homes is bunkum.

But I have no problem with people travelling the length of the country once they keep to themselves and don't come into contact with others. If that means they would be banned from local shops and from filling stations etc en route, I'm fine with that.

You mean drive places, with kids, not stop in Applegreen or any service station etc.?

Then get to your destination, don't go shopping in any of the local shops or get any petrol diesel etc?

I think I'd rather stay at home.

You must be in one of these civil liberty groups who think they can do what they want, whenever they want and everybody else must stick to the guidelines.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 09, 2020, 02:04:25 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 09, 2020, 01:49:07 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 01:40:33 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 09, 2020, 01:37:17 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 12:20:48 PM
The holiday home thing is bunkum. Just an excuse for a splurge on Garda overtime and a distraction from our nursing homes turning into charnel houses on foot of bad decisions made by Tony Holohan and the government a month ago.
Anybody should just be able to go where they want?
No, the fuss about holiday homes is bunkum.

But I have no problem with people travelling the length of the country once they keep to themselves and don't come into contact with others. If that means they would be banned from local shops and from filling stations etc en route, I'm fine with that.

You mean drive places, with kids, not stop in Applegreen or any service station etc.?

Then get to your destination, don't go shopping in any of the local shops or get any petrol diesel etc?

I think I'd rather stay at home.

You must be in one of these civil liberty groups who think they can do what they want, whenever they want and everybody else must stick to the guidelines.

Guards stopping at Bridgend both directions last night and today
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 09, 2020, 02:06:13 PM
Good.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on April 09, 2020, 02:06:42 PM
Has the 10k allowance given to the MPs for home working been mentioned yet. Disgusting. What a system eh..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 09, 2020, 02:09:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 09, 2020, 02:04:25 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 09, 2020, 01:49:07 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 01:40:33 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 09, 2020, 01:37:17 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 12:20:48 PM
The holiday home thing is bunkum. Just an excuse for a splurge on Garda overtime and a distraction from our nursing homes turning into charnel houses on foot of bad decisions made by Tony Holohan and the government a month ago.
Anybody should just be able to go where they want?
No, the fuss about holiday homes is bunkum.

But I have no problem with people travelling the length of the country once they keep to themselves and don't come into contact with others. If that means they would be banned from local shops and from filling stations etc en route, I'm fine with that.

You mean drive places, with kids, not stop in Applegreen or any service station etc.?

Then get to your destination, don't go shopping in any of the local shops or get any petrol diesel etc?

I think I'd rather stay at home.

You must be in one of these civil liberty groups who think they can do what they want, whenever they want and everybody else must stick to the guidelines.

Guards stopping at Bridgend both directions last night and today

Way it should be - clowns think they're on Easter holidays and can go anywhere they want.  Big queues of traffic heading south out of Dublin to Wicklow and Wexford - madness.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 09, 2020, 02:10:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 09, 2020, 02:06:13 PM
Good.

stopped me going back into Derry, turned car around coming from Derry
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 02:13:03 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 09, 2020, 01:49:07 PM
You mean drive places, with kids, not stop in Applegreen or any service station etc.?

Then get to your destination, don't go shopping in any of the local shops or get any petrol diesel etc?

I think I'd rather stay at home.

Me too, but at least they'd have a choice. Not like now where they can be pulled in and locked up for daring to travel at all.


Quote
You must be in one of these civil liberty groups who think they can do what they want, whenever they want and everybody else must stick to the guidelines.
No. I have no dog in this fight. But I think the hysteria about holiday homes is misplaced. I'm all for people travelling, if they can do so without posing a hazard to others.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on April 09, 2020, 02:14:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 09, 2020, 02:04:25 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 09, 2020, 01:49:07 PM

You mean drive places, with kids, not stop in Applegreen or any service station etc.?

Then get to your destination, don't go shopping in any of the local shops or get any petrol diesel etc?

I think I'd rather stay at home.

You must be in one of these civil liberty groups who think they can do what they want, whenever they want and everybody else must stick to the guidelines.

Guards stopping at Bridgend both directions last night and today

Just right too. It is the example it sets if these moorons were allowed to to and fro from a second home means everyone else will think well it is ok for them to move around it's ok for me to go for a drive as well. My wife is a nurse and the sacrifices she has had to make for the sake of our family so she can continue to work while scared absolutely shitless to go to work. Arseholes who cannot stay at home are putting her, her colleagues and everyone else at risk. Stay the f**k at home like the majority and do the right thing. I hope the cops all over the country are out in force over the weekend blockading popular spots to deter muppets like this and make their day a misery. 

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 09, 2020, 02:20:10 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 02:13:03 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 09, 2020, 01:49:07 PM
You mean drive places, with kids, not stop in Applegreen or any service station etc.?

Then get to your destination, don't go shopping in any of the local shops or get any petrol diesel etc?

I think I'd rather stay at home.

Me too, but at least they'd have a choice. Not like now where they can be pulled in and locked up for daring to travel at all.


Quote
You must be in one of these civil liberty groups who think they can do what they want, whenever they want and everybody else must stick to the guidelines.
No. I have no dog in this fight. But I think the hysteria about holiday homes is misplaced. I'm all for people travelling, if they can do so without posing a hazard to others.

You can't guarantee that though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 09, 2020, 02:28:03 PM
Has been reported that 70 doctors and nurses have been infected with Covid-19 at Cavan General Hospital.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 02:33:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 09, 2020, 02:20:10 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 02:13:03 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 09, 2020, 01:49:07 PM
You mean drive places, with kids, not stop in Applegreen or any service station etc.?

Then get to your destination, don't go shopping in any of the local shops or get any petrol diesel etc?

I think I'd rather stay at home.

Me too, but at least they'd have a choice. Not like now where they can be pulled in and locked up for daring to travel at all.


Quote
You must be in one of these civil liberty groups who think they can do what they want, whenever they want and everybody else must stick to the guidelines.
No. I have no dog in this fight. But I think the hysteria about holiday homes is misplaced. I'm all for people travelling, if they can do so without posing a hazard to others.

You can't guarantee that though.

No there are never any guarantees, nor are there any guarantees if they stay at home. But if they're barred from shops and filling stations while away, that should reduce the risk considerably.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 02:35:00 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 09, 2020, 02:28:03 PM
Has been reported that 70 doctors and nurses have been infected with Covid-19 at Cavan General Hospital.

Worse than that, "dozens more" are reported as being at home in isolation. Some Dickensian shit going on in there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on April 09, 2020, 02:40:18 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 02:33:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 09, 2020, 02:20:10 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 02:13:03 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 09, 2020, 01:49:07 PM
You mean drive places, with kids, not stop in Applegreen or any service station etc.?

Then get to your destination, don't go shopping in any of the local shops or get any petrol diesel etc?

I think I'd rather stay at home.


Me too, but at least they'd have a choice. Not like now where they can be pulled in and locked up for daring to travel at all.


Quote
You must be in one of these civil liberty groups who think they can do what they want, whenever they want and everybody else must stick to the guidelines.
No. I have no dog in this fight. But I think the hysteria about holiday homes is misplaced. I'm all for people travelling, if they can do so without posing a hazard to others.

You can't guarantee that though.

No there are never any guarantees, nor are there any guarantees if they stay at home. But if they're barred from shops and filling stations while away, that should reduce the risk considerably.

What you're failing to understand is the unnecessary journey rule. It's there for a reason. If there are less cars on the road there is less chance of accidents. Just imagine, God forbid, an accident with 3 or 4 in each car having to be taken to the nearest A and E. The bottom line is there isn't the staff to deal with those sorts of things at the moment. If you're not out driving you'll not have an accident.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 09, 2020, 02:42:05 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 02:35:00 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 09, 2020, 02:28:03 PM
Has been reported that 70 doctors and nurses have been infected with Covid-19 at Cavan General Hospital.

Worse than that, "dozens more" are reported as being at home in isolation. Some Dickensian shit going on in there.

How many staff would work there altogether?

Risk of effective collapse of the hospital due to lack of staffing?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 02:56:08 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 09, 2020, 02:40:18 PM

What you're failing to understand is the unnecessary journey rule. It's there for a reason. If there are less cars on the road there is less chance of accidents. Just imagine, God forbid, an accident with 3 or 4 in each car having to be taken to the nearest A and E. The bottom line is there isn't the staff to deal with those sorts of things at the moment. If you're not out driving you'll not have an accident.

I understand that fully. That's why I've talked about reducing risk considerably, not eliminating it altogether. The latter is impossible anyway, even around home. (A&Es are not busy at the moment either.)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 02:57:38 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 09, 2020, 02:42:05 PM
How many staff would work there altogether?

Risk of effective collapse of the hospital due to lack of staffing?

I don't know the numbers, sorry.

There must indeed be a risk of collapse. I hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 09, 2020, 03:42:52 PM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-path-speci-idUSKBN21P1VF

Two days later, China put the city of Wuhan, where the outbreak began, into a complete lockdown. Hubei, the surrounding province, would follow. But already, 17 passenger flights had flown directly from Wuhan to Britain since the start of 2020, and 614 flights from the whole of China, according to FlightRadar24, a flight-tracking service. That meant thousands of Chinese, some of them potential carriers, had come to Britain. On April 5, scientific adviser Ferguson said he estimated only one-third of infected people reaching Britain had been detected.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 09, 2020, 03:44:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 09, 2020, 03:42:52 PM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-path-speci-idUSKBN21P1VF

Two days later, China put the city of Wuhan, where the outbreak began, into a complete lockdown. Hubei, the surrounding province, would follow. But already, 17 passenger flights had flown directly from Wuhan to Britain since the start of 2020, and 614 flights from the whole of China, according to FlightRadar24, a flight-tracking service. That meant thousands of Chinese, some of them potential carriers, had come to Britain. On April 5, scientific adviser Ferguson said he estimated only one-third of infected people reaching Britain had been detected.

The Germans are a rare breed;

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-defences-i/pass-the-salt-the-minute-details-that-helped-germany-build-virus-defences-idUKKCN21R1DB (https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-defences-i/pass-the-salt-the-minute-details-that-helped-germany-build-virus-defences-idUKKCN21R1DB)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 09, 2020, 03:55:37 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 02:33:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 09, 2020, 02:20:10 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 02:13:03 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 09, 2020, 01:49:07 PM
You mean drive places, with kids, not stop in Applegreen or any service station etc.?

Then get to your destination, don't go shopping in any of the local shops or get any petrol diesel etc?

I think I'd rather stay at home.

Me too, but at least they'd have a choice. Not like now where they can be pulled in and locked up for daring to travel at all.


Quote
You must be in one of these civil liberty groups who think they can do what they want, whenever they want and everybody else must stick to the guidelines.
No. I have no dog in this fight. But I think the hysteria about holiday homes is misplaced. I'm all for people travelling, if they can do so without posing a hazard to others.

You can't guarantee that though.

No there are never any guarantees, nor are there any guarantees if they stay at home. But if they're barred from shops and filling stations while away, that should reduce the risk considerably.

If someone drives from Belfast or Dublin all to way to Donegal or Mayo or Kerry, they're going to have to fill up at some point, likely both at their point of origin and destination. They're more than likely going to need to pick up a gallon of milk or a loaf of bread during their stay.

That said though, chances are the virus is already circulating in most communities at this point anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 09, 2020, 03:58:42 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 09, 2020, 02:28:03 PM
Has been reported that 70 doctors and nurses have been infected with Covid-19 at Cavan General Hospital.
I noticed Cavan had a high number of cases relative to Counties with similar populations.
Any particular reason I wonder? ( and don't say maneness)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 09, 2020, 03:59:06 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 09, 2020, 03:44:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 09, 2020, 03:42:52 PM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-path-speci-idUSKBN21P1VF

Two days later, China put the city of Wuhan, where the outbreak began, into a complete lockdown. Hubei, the surrounding province, would follow. But already, 17 passenger flights had flown directly from Wuhan to Britain since the start of 2020, and 614 flights from the whole of China, according to FlightRadar24, a flight-tracking service. That meant thousands of Chinese, some of them potential carriers, had come to Britain. On April 5, scientific adviser Ferguson said he estimated only one-third of infected people reaching Britain had been detected.

The Germans are a rare breed;

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-defences-i/pass-the-salt-the-minute-details-that-helped-germany-build-virus-defences-idUKKCN21R1DB (https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-defences-i/pass-the-salt-the-minute-details-that-helped-germany-build-virus-defences-idUKKCN21R1DB)

Some contrast btw Germany and Uk's 'approach'.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 04:02:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 09, 2020, 03:55:37 PM

If someone drives from Belfast or Dublin all to way to Donegal or Mayo or Kerry, they're going to have to fill up at some point, likely both at their point of origin and destination. They're more than likely going to need to pick up a gallon of milk or a loaf of bread during their stay.

Then restrict yourself to filling stations that will fuel up for you, as some stations around Lifford were doing a few weeks ago. A fill of the average 50 litre fuel tank will bring you about 800km. Bring milk and bread in a cold bag. Otherwise don't travel.

These are only ideas, which of course will never be implemented. But there are alternatives to the heavy-handed nonsense we've seen in recent days.


Quote

That said though, chances are the virus is already circulating in most communities at this point anyway.

True.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 04:04:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 09, 2020, 03:58:42 PM
I noticed Cavan had a high number of cases relative to Counties with similar populations.
Any particular reason I wonder? ( and don't say maneness)

I think it's almost all hospital-related. There was an early outbreak in Cootehill after a group of lads went to Newcastle for a stag very early in the crisis.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on April 09, 2020, 04:21:13 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 04:02:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 09, 2020, 03:55:37 PM

If someone drives from Belfast or Dublin all to way to Donegal or Mayo or Kerry, they're going to have to fill up at some point, likely both at their point of origin and destination. They're more than likely going to need to pick up a gallon of milk or a loaf of bread during their stay.

Then restrict yourself to filling stations that will fuel up for you, as some stations around Lifford were doing a few weeks ago. A fill of the average 50 litre fuel tank will bring you about 800km. Bring milk and bread in a cold bag. Otherwise don't travel.

These are only ideas, which of course will never be implemented. But there are alternatives to the heavy-handed nonsense we've seen in recent days.


Quote

That said though, chances are the virus is already circulating in most communities at this point anyway.

True.

Did you read my earlier post about my wife who is a nurse having to make major sacrifices to keep our family safe. They have also been working with limited PPE to date (that does seem to be getting better but is it too little too late?).

Does she and all her colleagues not deserve that people simply stay at home and do not go anywhere needlessly. I'll tell her it's ok for people to go to their second home and travel around the country if they keep themselves to themselves (which they won't) but she can't visit her kids at the minute as she is afraid of taking the virus home with her. Plus these people travelling will be putting health care workers at an increased risk due to spreading it and more people having to be admitted to hospital for care. But sure as long as people can go to Donegal or wherever for the weekend and not have their civil rights impacted upon by heavy handed tactics what does it matter about people like my wife or her colleagues.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cavan19 on April 09, 2020, 04:24:39 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 04:04:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 09, 2020, 03:58:42 PM
I noticed Cavan had a high number of cases relative to Counties with similar populations.
Any particular reason I wonder? ( and don't say maneness)

I think it's almost all hospital-related. There was an early outbreak in Cootehill after a group of lads went to Newcastle for a stag very early in the crisis.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/conditions-at-cavan-general-hospital-very-scary-as-70-staff-catch-covid-19-993148.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/conditions-at-cavan-general-hospital-very-scary-as-70-staff-catch-covid-19-993148.html)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 09, 2020, 05:19:16 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 04:04:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 09, 2020, 03:58:42 PM
I noticed Cavan had a high number of cases relative to Counties with similar populations.
Any particular reason I wonder? ( and don't say maneness)

I think it's almost all hospital-related. There was an early outbreak in Cootehill after a group of lads went to Newcastle for a stag very early in the crisis.

I thought the bad name Cavan General once had was a thing of history but an outbreak of that magnitude in a hospital points to bad behaviours of some people in the hospital. That's an incredible amount of people to be sick in a small regional hospital. Sad to see but hopefully everyone makes a recovery. How the hospital can function now is had to understand.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 09, 2020, 05:19:20 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on April 09, 2020, 02:14:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 09, 2020, 02:04:25 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 09, 2020, 01:49:07 PM

You mean drive places, with kids, not stop in Applegreen or any service station etc.?

Then get to your destination, don't go shopping in any of the local shops or get any petrol diesel etc?

I think I'd rather stay at home.

You must be in one of these civil liberty groups who think they can do what they want, whenever they want and everybody else must stick to the guidelines.

Guards stopping at Bridgend both directions last night and today

Just right too. It is the example it sets if these moorons were allowed to to and fro from a second home means everyone else will think well it is ok for them to move around it's ok for me to go for a drive as well. My wife is a nurse and the sacrifices she has had to make for the sake of our family so she can continue to work while scared absolutely shitless to go to work. Arseholes who cannot stay at home are putting her, her colleagues and everyone else at risk. Stay the f**k at home like the majority and do the right thing. I hope the cops all over the country are out in force over the weekend blockading popular spots to deter muppets like this and make their day a misery.

+1

Everyone is the same boat but there's always some asshole who thinks they are special and deserve to do what they and everyone else has been told they can't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 09, 2020, 05:22:56 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 04:02:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 09, 2020, 03:55:37 PM

If someone drives from Belfast or Dublin all to way to Donegal or Mayo or Kerry, they're going to have to fill up at some point, likely both at their point of origin and destination. They're more than likely going to need to pick up a gallon of milk or a loaf of bread during their stay.

Then restrict yourself to filling stations that will fuel up for you, as some stations around Lifford were doing a few weeks ago. A fill of the average 50 litre fuel tank will bring you about 800km. Bring milk and bread in a cold bag. Otherwise don't travel.

These are only ideas, which of course will never be implemented. But there are alternatives to the heavy-handed nonsense we've seen in recent days.


Quote

That said though, chances are the virus is already circulating in most communities at this point anyway.

True.

People cannot be trusted and that's why the police are enforcing this.

Unless you have an essential reason for travelling you have absolutely no business being on the road and you should do like everyone is being told to do.

It's just unbelievable arrogance in these times and these people deserved to be pulled up on it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 09, 2020, 05:24:33 PM
More of 5 points' civil liberty heroes/assholes

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/putting-lives-at-risk-limerick-td-slams-video-of-people-drinking-on-party-bus-993223.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 05:25:53 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on April 09, 2020, 04:21:13 PM
Did you read my earlier post about my wife who is a nurse having to make major sacrifices to keep our family safe. They have also been working with limited PPE to date (that does seem to be getting better but is it too little too late?).

Does she and all her colleagues not deserve that people simply stay at home and do not go anywhere needlessly. I'll tell her it's ok for people to go to their second home and travel around the country if they keep themselves to themselves (which they won't) but she can't visit her kids at the minute as she is afraid of taking the virus home with her. Plus these people travelling will be putting health care workers at an increased risk due to spreading it and more people having to be admitted to hospital for care. But sure as long as people can go to Donegal or wherever for the weekend and not have their civil rights impacted upon by heavy handed tactics what does it matter about people like my wife or her colleagues.

I did but then I read the carry-on at Cavan General Hospital. And in local nursing homes where they're telling relatives their elderly parents with Covid 19 are not deemed important enough to deserve hospital treatment, in other words a death sentence.

I'm getting sick and tired of the propaganda that's blaming drivers and families for a problem that's been magnified by what seems to be criminal incompetence in some (not all) hospitals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on April 09, 2020, 05:26:17 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 04:02:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 09, 2020, 03:55:37 PM

If someone drives from Belfast or Dublin all to way to Donegal or Mayo or Kerry, they're going to have to fill up at some point, likely both at their point of origin and destination. They're more than likely going to need to pick up a gallon of milk or a loaf of bread during their stay.

Then restrict yourself to filling stations that will fuel up for you, as some stations around Lifford were doing a few weeks ago. A fill of the average 50 litre fuel tank will bring you about 800km. Bring milk and bread in a cold bag. Otherwise don't travel.

These are only ideas, which of course will never be implemented. But there are alternatives to the heavy-handed nonsense we've seen in recent days.


Quote

Wtf should they need to stay open for all these gobshites that can't stay at home? Staff in there are already at a higher risk keeping these places running for the people who are deemed essential.

There appears to be a small minority of people cannot get it through their heads, if it's a not essential they need to stay the fcuk home as instructed. It's not heavy handed, it's a reaction to the selfishness of a this small minority and they only have themselves to blame.

The same cnuts are queued up at the shops every day with kids in tow etc... why can't they get enough to keep everyone at home or why can't one parent stay at home while the other goes to the shop. There are queues down the road to the shops because families of 6 are treating grocery shopping as exercise  ::)

When we are out the other end, society won't forget these bell-ends.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 05:27:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 09, 2020, 05:24:33 PM
More of 5 points' civil liberty heroes/assholes

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/putting-lives-at-risk-limerick-td-slams-video-of-people-drinking-on-party-bus-993223.html

You're trolling linking me to that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 05:28:35 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on April 09, 2020, 05:26:17 PM

Wtf should they need to stay open for all these gobshites that can't stay at home? Staff in there are already at a higher risk keeping these places running for the people who are deemed essential.

There appears to be a small minority of people cannot get it through their heads, if it's a not essential they need to stay the fcuk home as instructed. It's not heavy handed, it's a reaction to the selfishness of a this small minority and they only have themselves to blame.

The same cnuts are queued up at the shops every day with kids in tow etc... why can't they get enough to keep everyone at home or why can't one parent stay at home while the other goes to the shop. There are queues down the road to the shops because families of 6 are treating grocery shopping as exercise  ::)

When we are out the other end, society won't forget these bell-ends.

It is heavy handed. In fact, it's martial law in all but name. Good luck recovering your civil liberties from Fine Gael when this is all over.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 09, 2020, 05:46:58 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 05:28:35 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on April 09, 2020, 05:26:17 PM

Wtf should they need to stay open for all these gobshites that can't stay at home? Staff in there are already at a higher risk keeping these places running for the people who are deemed essential.

There appears to be a small minority of people cannot get it through their heads, if it's a not essential they need to stay the fcuk home as instructed. It's not heavy handed, it's a reaction to the selfishness of a this small minority and they only have themselves to blame.

The same cnuts are queued up at the shops every day with kids in tow etc... why can't they get enough to keep everyone at home or why can't one parent stay at home while the other goes to the shop. There are queues down the road to the shops because families of 6 are treating grocery shopping as exercise  ::)

When we are out the other end, society won't forget these bell-ends.

It is heavy handed. In fact, it's martial law in all but name. Good luck recovering your civil liberties from Fine Gael when this is all over.

This is quite simply a life and death matter that we can have a positive impact on by adhering to the guidelines.

Civil liberties should be way down the list of what is important at the minute.

You seem to feel quite entitled.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 05:50:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 09, 2020, 05:46:58 PM

This is quite simply a life and death matter that we can have a positive impact on by adhering to the guidelines.

Civil liberties should be way down the list of what is important at the minute.

You seem to feel quite entitled.

Threats to civil liberties are always painted as 'life and death matters.' And those who object are always vilified.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 09, 2020, 06:15:21 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 05:50:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 09, 2020, 05:46:58 PM

This is quite simply a life and death matter that we can have a positive impact on by adhering to the guidelines.

Civil liberties should be way down the list of what is important at the minute.

You seem to feel quite entitled.

Threats to civil liberties are always painted as 'life and death matters.' And those who object are always vilified.

This is a life and death matter and we are all responsible for how we can limit the casualties.

Unless your journey is essential, you should not be on the road and if you are then you should meet the full penalties of the law for being so self-centred, reckless and arrogant in these times.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 06:18:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 09, 2020, 06:15:21 PM
This is a life and death matter and we are all responsible for how we can limit the casualties.

Unless your journey is essential, you should not be on the road and if you are then you should meet the full penalties of the law for being so self-centred, reckless and arrogant in these times.

I'm with you if and when you also call for arrests over what's been happening in hospitals and nursing homes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 09, 2020, 06:19:06 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 05:50:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 09, 2020, 05:46:58 PM

This is quite simply a life and death matter that we can have a positive impact on by adhering to the guidelines.

Civil liberties should be way down the list of what is important at the minute.

You seem to feel quite entitled.

Threats to civil liberties are always painted as 'life and death matters.' And those who object are always vilified.

Oh get over yourself. Those breaking the guidelines are killing people. 700-800 people are dying in Britain with this Every. Single. Day. Get that into your skull.
Everyone is making sacrifices, my wedding/honeymoon is being completely disrupted. I am ok with that as it's for the greater societal good.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 06:24:10 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 09, 2020, 06:19:06 PM

Oh get over yourself. Those breaking the guidelines are killing people. 700-800 people are dying in Britain with this Every. Single. Day. Get that into your skull.
Everyone is making sacrifices, my wedding/honeymoon is being completely disrupted. I am ok with that as it's for the greater societal good.

A cop in Britain spoke today of examining shoppers' supermarket trollies to ensure they weren't buying anything non-essential.

How that aids the greater societal good is beyond me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 09, 2020, 06:26:03 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 06:18:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 09, 2020, 06:15:21 PM
This is a life and death matter and we are all responsible for how we can limit the casualties.

Unless your journey is essential, you should not be on the road and if you are then you should meet the full penalties of the law for being so self-centred, reckless and arrogant in these times.

I'm with you if and when you also call for arrests over what's been happening in hospitals and nursing homes.

What's going on inside hospitals and nursing homes that warrants arrests?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 09, 2020, 06:27:10 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 05:28:35 PM
It is heavy handed. In fact, it's martial law in all but name. Good luck recovering your civil liberties from Fine Gael when this is all over.

Oh away and wise up.


Yeah, in a perfect world making a journey around Ireland in your car would be fine as long as you'd a big enough and full fuel tank at the start and enough tae and ham sandwiches to keep you.

We all know that its only a matter of time before that approach goes wrong and then someone has spread the thing.


If everyone were able to operate under a perfect lockdown, this thing would be over in 4 weeks. But, aside from essential workers that put themselves at risk, it'll be people like you who continue to present new hosts to the virus that will allow it to endure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 06:29:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 09, 2020, 06:26:03 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 06:18:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 09, 2020, 06:15:21 PM
This is a life and death matter and we are all responsible for how we can limit the casualties.

Unless your journey is essential, you should not be on the road and if you are then you should meet the full penalties of the law for being so self-centred, reckless and arrogant in these times.

I'm with you if and when you also call for arrests over what's been happening in hospitals and nursing homes.

What's going on inside hospitals and nursing homes that warrants arrests?

Read back a page or two.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 06:30:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 09, 2020, 06:27:10 PM
[If everyone were able to operate under a perfect lockdown, this thing would be over in 4 weeks. But, aside from essential workers that put themselves at risk, it'll be people like you who continue to present new hosts to the virus that will allow it to endure.

People like me? I'm going nowhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 09, 2020, 06:31:34 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 09, 2020, 10:12:44 AM
Would be interesting to see a similar chart with % of population from those areas in critical care

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2020/4/9/711f8f27-132b-4a4a-92f5-a643b021defb.png)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 09, 2020, 06:32:06 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 06:18:17 PM
I'm with you if and when you also call for arrests over what's been happening in hospitals and nursing homes.

I would agree with arrests if that is true - its utterly ludicrous that folks can be working a shift in a COVID ward in the morning and in a nursing home that evening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 09, 2020, 06:32:40 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 06:30:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 09, 2020, 06:27:10 PM
[If everyone were able to operate under a perfect lockdown, this thing would be over in 4 weeks. But, aside from essential workers that put themselves at risk, it'll be people like you who continue to present new hosts to the virus that will allow it to endure.

People like me? I'm going nowhere.

You wanting to or advocating others go somewhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 06:35:45 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 09, 2020, 06:32:40 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 06:30:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 09, 2020, 06:27:10 PM
[If everyone were able to operate under a perfect lockdown, this thing would be over in 4 weeks. But, aside from essential workers that put themselves at risk, it'll be people like you who continue to present new hosts to the virus that will allow it to endure.

People like me? I'm going nowhere.

You wanting to or advocating others go somewhere.

No, people have all sorts of valid and pressing reasons for travelling at any given time. I tend to be suspicious of 'hang em and flog em' mobs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 06:37:00 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 09, 2020, 06:32:06 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 06:18:17 PM
I'm with you if and when you also call for arrests over what's been happening in hospitals and nursing homes.

I would agree with arrests if that is true - its utterly ludicrous that folks can be working a shift in a COVID ward in the morning and in a nursing home that evening.

It was actually someone else that mentioned that. It is criminal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 09, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 05:27:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 09, 2020, 05:24:33 PM
More of 5 points' civil liberty heroes/assholes

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/putting-lives-at-risk-limerick-td-slams-video-of-people-drinking-on-party-bus-993223.html

You're trolling linking me to that.
Not really, look at your next post 1 minute after the 1 I'm quoting.
Or are you trying to become the new Syferus?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 06:48:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 09, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 05:27:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 09, 2020, 05:24:33 PM
More of 5 points' civil liberty heroes/assholes

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/putting-lives-at-risk-limerick-td-slams-video-of-people-drinking-on-party-bus-993223.html

You're trolling linking me to that.


Not really, look at your next post 1 minute after the 1 I'm quoting.
Or are you trying to become the new Syferus?

What's the connection between idiots on the p**s  in Limerick and what I said about what's going on in hospitals and the PR ops to deflect from it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 09, 2020, 06:49:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 09, 2020, 05:24:33 PM
More of 5 points' civil liberty heroes/assholes

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/putting-lives-at-risk-limerick-td-slams-video-of-people-drinking-on-party-bus-993223.html

A party bus?? Where was it going?!?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 09, 2020, 06:50:40 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 09, 2020, 06:27:10 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 05:28:35 PM
It is heavy handed. In fact, it's martial law in all but name. Good luck recovering your civil liberties from Fine Gael when this is all over.

Oh away and wise up.


Yeah, in a perfect world making a journey around Ireland in your car would be fine as long as you'd a big enough and full fuel tank at the start and enough tae and ham sandwiches to keep you.

We all know that its only a matter of time before that approach goes wrong and then someone has spread the thing.


If everyone were able to operate under a perfect lockdown, this thing would be over in 4 weeks. But, aside from essential workers that put themselves at risk, it'll be people like you who continue to present new hosts to the virus that will allow it to endure.

Not a hope in hell of it ever being over in 4 weeks. Based on whats happened in Singapore, it will return even after it's beaten down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 09, 2020, 06:54:27 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 06:35:45 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 09, 2020, 06:32:40 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 06:30:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 09, 2020, 06:27:10 PM
[If everyone were able to operate under a perfect lockdown, this thing would be over in 4 weeks. But, aside from essential workers that put themselves at risk, it'll be people like you who continue to present new hosts to the virus that will allow it to endure.

People like me? I'm going nowhere.

You wanting to or advocating others go somewhere.

No, people have all sorts of valid and pressing reasons for travelling at any given time. I tend to be suspicious of 'hang em and flog em' mobs.

Did you not say there's no harm in people going to their holiday homes...as long as they don't stop on the way there, shop while they're there or stop anywhere on they way back?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 09, 2020, 07:25:28 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 06:50:40 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 09, 2020, 06:27:10 PM
If everyone were able to operate under a perfect lockdown, this thing would be over in 4 weeks. But, aside from essential workers that put themselves at risk, it'll be people like you who continue to present new hosts to the virus that will allow it to endure.

Not a hope in hell of it ever being over in 4 weeks. Based on whats happened in Singapore, it will return even after it's beaten down.

I can assure you, that would be the case.

The virus doesn't seem to persist longer than ~4 weeks - 1 week asymptomatic, 2 weeks symptoms, 4th week critical or recovering, with no new hosts to jump into its either killed its current host or been killed by its current host.

But we'd never have a perfect lockdown so its all theoretical - people need to eat for instance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mayoman dan on April 09, 2020, 07:55:18 PM


A cop in Britain spoke today of examining shoppers' supermarket trollies to ensure they weren't buying anything non-essential.

How that aids the greater societal good is beyond me.
[/quote]

Its a pity they wouldnt start doing that here.I work in a supermarket whats happening would sicken ya.People coming in for a few bits 2 or 3 times every day >:( >:(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 09, 2020, 08:04:19 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 06:48:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 09, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Quote from: five points on April 09, 2020, 05:27:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 09, 2020, 05:24:33 PM
More of 5 points' civil liberty heroes/assholes

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/putting-lives-at-risk-limerick-td-slams-video-of-people-drinking-on-party-bus-993223.html

You're trolling linking me to that.


Not really, look at your next post 1 minute after the 1 I'm quoting.
Or are you trying to become the new Syferus?

What's the connection between idiots on the p**s  in Limerick and what I said about what's going on in hospitals and the PR ops to deflect from it?
Your civil liberty blayher  newSyf.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 09, 2020, 09:02:57 PM
Got stopped twice by guards and once by PSNI today going back and forth over the border for work. The PSNI fecker leaned in, sniffled, took my licence, passed it around 2 other cops, nó sanitiser and handed it back after a 10 min conference. Jokers
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on April 09, 2020, 09:09:20 PM
I was at the shop this evening getting the weekly essentials and 2 PSNI officers were there buying a cup of coffee.  Hardly essential.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 09, 2020, 09:10:46 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 09, 2020, 08:44:57 PM
There seems to be an issue with people driving their cars in the north. The peelers have come out today and said that it is a breach of the regulations to drive somewhere to exercise. Seems they've just made that up themselves as the regulations don't mention that at all. If you live a mile from a park where you exercise, you can cycle there, walk there or run there but you can't drive there.

I can see why they wouldn't want people driving too far or all landing at the one natural beauty spot but a 2km rule like the south would make more sense? I can't see how they could enforce their own made up rule either.

you can drive for an essential journey, that is obviously not  ???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 09, 2020, 09:14:27 PM
According to Pat the Cope every second car in the Aldi carpark Dungloe was northern registered today. Apparently stocking up with Alcohol & goodies for the Barbecue. Not much of a lockdown, civil disobedience is high.

For balance apparently a lot of Donegal registered cars in Asda Strabane
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 09, 2020, 09:27:57 PM
At thr minute in Derry most of the traffic is coming into us not the other way around.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 09, 2020, 09:39:18 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 09, 2020, 09:23:18 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 09, 2020, 09:14:27 PM
According to Pat the Cope every second car in the Aldi carpark Dungloe was northern registered today. Apparently stocking up with Alcohol & goodies for the Barbecue. Not much of a lockdown, civil disobedience is high.

For balance apparently a lot of Donegal registered cars in Asda Strabane
Didn't Pat mention the cars in The Cope carpark?

No , oddly enough, would say he's too expensive for youse northern cheapskates
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 09, 2020, 09:42:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 09, 2020, 09:27:57 PM
At thr minute in Derry most of the traffic is coming into us not the other way around.

Look it Buckeen you earn yer money in the free state, crossing the border daily. E&I  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 09, 2020, 09:47:16 PM
I've been stopped on way to work and way home from each of the last 3 days. "What is your purpose bring here today" is the question. Didnt see anyone being turned away but I know that 100s of tourists have already landed, most came in middle of the night. I'm sure we will survive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 09, 2020, 09:52:17 PM
There are seven different types of corona virus. Four cause mild disease and three are much more serious (sars, Mers and sars2). That was something I hadn't read before but I saw on twitter from a doctor at queens. Interesting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 09, 2020, 09:55:23 PM
I feel you shouldn't have to drive anywhere to exercise or walk the dog, if its a 2 mile radius from your house, walk it.

The parks and beach near me have closed their car-parks and there are signs ups locally telling people to basically 'f**k off' and not to park their cars nearby.

Quote from: imtommygunn on April 09, 2020, 09:52:17 PM
There are seven different types of corona virus. Four cause mild disease and three are much more serious (sars, Mers and sars2). That was something I hadn't read before but I saw on twitter from a doctor at queens. Interesting.

On that imtommygunn, are there lesser strains of this virus?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 09, 2020, 10:01:25 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 09, 2020, 09:24:04 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 09, 2020, 09:10:46 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 09, 2020, 08:44:57 PM
There seems to be an issue with people driving their cars in the north. The peelers have come out today and said that it is a breach of the regulations to drive somewhere to exercise. Seems they've just made that up themselves as the regulations don't mention that at all. If you live a mile from a park where you exercise, you can cycle there, walk there or run there but you can't drive there.

I can see why they wouldn't want people driving too far or all landing at the one natural beauty spot but a 2km rule like the south would make more sense? I can't see how they could enforce their own made up rule either.

you can drive for an essential journey, that is obviously not  ???
If exercise isn't essential, why are you allowed to leave the house to do it at all?

exercising is essential, driving to do it is not   ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 09, 2020, 10:02:53 PM
 No idea to be honest. Lesser strains of the three harmful types do you mean? 

The seven different types makes a lot of sense and shows why the difference in severity etc though is a bit scary too.

I run from the house now. Used to always drive to the towpath and have never done so many hills ;D Two cars at the house doing barely anything bar the odd grocery run.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 09, 2020, 10:05:35 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 09, 2020, 09:42:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 09, 2020, 09:27:57 PM
At thr minute in Derry most of the traffic is coming into us not the other way around.

Look it Buckeen you earn yer money in the free state, crossing the border daily. E&I  ;)
,
Listen here sherlock 😂.
It's good dollar too, free staters hardly get out of their scratchers for it, but us Derry wans woukd shovel shite.

Seriously though the checks are sensible but there has been a wee tinge of getting boot into Derry ones recently even though other than the obvious big factory most traffic goes other way
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 09, 2020, 10:11:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 09, 2020, 09:55:23 PM
I feel you shouldn't have to drive anywhere to exercise or walk the dog, if its a 2 mile radius from your house, walk it.

The parks and beach near me have closed their car-parks and there are signs ups locally telling people to basically 'f**k off' and not to park their cars nearby.

Quote from: imtommygunn on April 09, 2020, 09:52:17 PM
There are seven different types of corona virus. Four cause mild disease and three are much more serious (sars, Mers and sars2). That was something I hadn't read before but I saw on twitter from a doctor at queens. Interesting.

On that imtommygunn, are there lesser strains of this virus?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronaviridae

229E & OC43 cause the common cold
HCoV-HKU1 common cold, sometime respiratory infection
NL63 respiratory infection
MERS-CoV
SARS-CoV
SARS-CoV-02. This is the one doing the rounds.
There are dozens of differing variations for different species.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on April 09, 2020, 10:19:24 PM
Northern Ireland added to the FT modelling this evening - compares particularly well at present with the rest of the world ...

Australia & NZ looking to have things really well under control - interestingly construction & manufacturing both still open in Oz
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 09, 2020, 10:32:57 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on April 09, 2020, 10:19:24 PM
Northern Ireland added to the FT modelling this evening - compares particularly well at present with the rest of the world ...

A remote backwater with an excellent government has every chance.

QuoteAustralia & NZ looking to have things really well under control - interestingly construction & manufacturing both still open in Oz

NZ reckons they can rid themselves of the pox, then introduce controls at the airport.
The island of Ireland should aim to do likewise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on April 09, 2020, 11:25:37 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on April 09, 2020, 10:19:24 PM
Australia & NZ looking to have things really well under control - interestingly construction & manufacturing both still open in Oz

It could be a seasonal thing, Oz and NZ are both at the end of their summer/going into autumn, unfortunately we don't know enough about this virus yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 09, 2020, 11:48:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 09, 2020, 10:32:57 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on April 09, 2020, 10:19:24 PM
Northern Ireland added to the FT modelling this evening - compares particularly well at present with the rest of the world ...

A remote backwater with an excellent government has every chance.

QuoteAustralia & NZ looking to have things really well under control - interestingly construction & manufacturing both still open in Oz

NZ reckons they can rid themselves of the pox, then introduce controls at the airport.
The island of Ireland should aim to do likewise.

Suggestion going round NZ is that they won't open the country to inbound or outbound passenger flights for at least 12 months.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on April 10, 2020, 12:03:57 AM
Have you any source for that? Can't see it widely reported?

NZ speaking of relaxing their lockdown restrictions

Interesting they've stated two key areas they feel that got them ahead with time afforded to them by China lockdown:

1) Testing - 51,165 tests had been carried out earlier in the week comparing with Ireland's a few days back @ 42,484

2) Being an island & border restrictions enforced early - that's why the previous post on 12 month border restrictions would be interesting to see some more detail.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on April 10, 2020, 12:05:56 AM
Quote from: gallsman on April 09, 2020, 11:48:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 09, 2020, 10:32:57 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on April 09, 2020, 10:19:24 PM
Northern Ireland added to the FT modelling this evening - compares particularly well at present with the rest of the world ...

A remote backwater with an excellent government has every chance.

QuoteAustralia & NZ looking to have things really well under control - interestingly construction & manufacturing both still open in Oz

NZ reckons they can rid themselves of the pox, then introduce controls at the airport.
The island of Ireland should aim to do likewise.

Suggestion going round NZ is that they won't open the country to inbound or outbound passenger flights for at least 12 months.

I think this will be the case for a lot of countries unless strict and accurate measurements are put in place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on April 10, 2020, 12:30:12 AM
Can somebody explain the difference with the number of deaths in Ireland compared to Australia?

Similar no of recorded cases, obv Ireland much higher per head. Ireland 6,574, Aus 6,104
Similar no of tests carried out per head of population, so not disproportionate there. 10,734 v 12,946
Ireland has 263 deaths so far with only 51 in Aus.

It looks like patients aren't recovering in Ireland (or not being reported) - only 25 recoveries compared to 2,987 in Australia.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 10, 2020, 12:41:17 AM
Australia's remoteness? Ireland's proximity to the UK where they made a pig's ear of it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 10, 2020, 12:54:18 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 10, 2020, 12:30:12 AM
Can somebody explain the difference with the number of deaths in Ireland compared to Australia?

Similar no of recorded cases, obv Ireland much higher per head. Ireland 6,574, Aus 6,104
Similar no of tests carried out per head of population, so not disproportionate there. 10,734 v 12,946
Ireland has 263 deaths so far with only 51 in Aus.

Covid19 got into the nursing homes in Ireland, probably it did not in Australia.

QuoteIt looks like patients aren't recovering in Ireland (or not being reported) - only 25 recoveries compared to 2,987 in Australia.

Recoveries are not properly reported.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on April 10, 2020, 12:58:16 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 10, 2020, 12:41:17 AM
Australia's remoteness? Ireland's proximity to the UK where they made a pig's ear of it?
Australia is remote from the rest of the world, but I wouldn't think more remote internally than Ireland.
Quick google search tells me 29% of Aussies live remotely but 36% Irish (rural means a different thing in Aus though!)

Proximity with UK/Europe would explain the difference in cases, but not the deaths disparity.

We (Australia) have a LOT of Chinese students and visitors.
Interesting to note though, that while the bulk of Australia's confirmed cases were from overseas these were mostly from Europe, not Asia.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on April 10, 2020, 01:00:23 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 10, 2020, 12:54:18 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 10, 2020, 12:30:12 AM
Can somebody explain the difference with the number of deaths in Ireland compared to Australia?

Similar no of recorded cases, obv Ireland much higher per head. Ireland 6,574, Aus 6,104
Similar no of tests carried out per head of population, so not disproportionate there. 10,734 v 12,946
Ireland has 263 deaths so far with only 51 in Aus.

Covid19 got into the nursing homes in Ireland, probably it did not in Australia.

QuoteIt looks like patients aren't recovering in Ireland (or not being reported) - only 25 recoveries compared to 2,987 in Australia.

Recoveries are not properly reported.

Good point on the nursing homes.
Would be interested to hear about how recoveries are reported. You would think the Govt would have an interest in tracking this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 10, 2020, 01:37:27 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 10, 2020, 01:00:23 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 10, 2020, 12:54:18 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 10, 2020, 12:30:12 AM
Can somebody explain the difference with the number of deaths in Ireland compared to Australia?

Similar no of recorded cases, obv Ireland much higher per head. Ireland 6,574, Aus 6,104
Similar no of tests carried out per head of population, so not disproportionate there. 10,734 v 12,946
Ireland has 263 deaths so far with only 51 in Aus.

Covid19 got into the nursing homes in Ireland, probably it did not in Australia.

QuoteIt looks like patients aren't recovering in Ireland (or not being reported) - only 25 recoveries compared to 2,987 in Australia.

Recoveries are not properly reported.

Good point on the nursing homes.
Would be interested to hear about how recoveries are reported. You would think the Govt would have an interest in tracking this.

It seems saying things aren't being reported without a link from better sources or history of this sort of thing is the done thing !
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on April 10, 2020, 10:21:56 AM
The reporting of this in the UK is laughable. You would need to have a keen eye to get a handle on the number of deaths in the UK on a daily basis from the BBC website, yet when deaths were high in Spain and Italy their figures were the leading article for weeks on end. Now on the BBC it is Stanley Johnson telling people he is now taking the disease seriously, the mad oul ****. If I want to check UK daily deaths it is easier to do so on the RTE site.

Also the UK is reporting only deaths of people who die in hospital and do not include people at home, in Care etc which is of course vastly under-representing the actual death rate.

The silence from the MSM on these matters is deafening, happy to spew the daily line that things are getting better or whatever BS they are fed at the daily briefing. No-one appears to want to confront these wankers on the horrendous balls up they have made of the public health system over the past 4 decades and who are now flat out lying through their teeth. I suppose it is only a matter of time before they latch on to some minority group to carry the can, unfortunately the immigrants who are dying in their droves to save the rest of us are out of the loop on this one [for now], Jeremy Corbett had the ill manners to f**k off at the wrong time and we cannot therefore shift the blame onto his pinko commie anti semitic shoulders.

So with no handy bogeyman to blame and rather than asking some hard questions about the shit storm that is unfolding in front of our eyes the MSM are actively conspiring with this shambles of a Tory government in pretending all is well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 10:25:44 AM
what I found utterly astounding at the No10 daily press briefing on the day they'd just announced over 950 deaths in a single day, more than China, Italy or Spain ever reported the press were asking when the "lock down" would end.

What planet are these not jobs on?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on April 10, 2020, 10:40:16 AM
It seems to be an increasing narrative over the last few days - when will lockdown end!

Each journalist asks it in some roundabout way - as if their trying to get a scoop on this... madness!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 10, 2020, 10:40:50 AM
Those last 2 posts resonate with me too. It's a scramble to find out any death tally and like you say keyser soze big death tallies in other countries are the headlines.

950 deaths and they say the lockdown won't end just yet. Utter madness. I don't know if they just look at the incoming cases or what but I suspect no and they are just complete bluffers. The UK is fundamentally broken in many ways here. Politicians are useless, the media is beyond ridiculous and the list goes on.

Stanley Johnson said Boris "took one for the team". What the f**k does that even mean.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 10, 2020, 10:44:56 AM
Quote from: Ambrose on April 09, 2020, 11:25:37 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on April 09, 2020, 10:19:24 PM
Australia & NZ looking to have things really well under control - interestingly construction & manufacturing both still open in Oz

It could be a seasonal thing, Oz and NZ are both at the end of their summer/going into autumn, unfortunately we don't know enough about this virus yet.

Australia and NZ both have control of their own borders. They basically pulled the plug one day and that was that. To be fair that was something that was mentioned earlier in this thread but I caused a bit of a row saying the airports would be the last thing to close here.

Not to sound tooooo right wing, but Ireland....both North and South do not control it's basic geographical advantage. The Aussies and Kiwis do which helped them massively.

NW is an interesting case though. Thought the below was a decent article on it. I think this type of thing will happen again, Ireland needs to get it's house in order perhaps with cross agreement on shutting borders should something like this reemege in the next seasonal virus season but obviously there won't be much hope in getting our politicians to think about something so sensible.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/coronavirus/new-zealand-isnt-just-flattening-the-curve-its-squashing-it/ar-BB12hgdZ

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TabClear on April 10, 2020, 11:08:16 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 10, 2020, 10:40:50 AM
Those last 2 posts resonate with me too. It's a scramble to find out any death tally and like you say keyser soze big death tallies in other countries are the headlines.

950 deaths and they say the lockdown won't end just yet. Utter madness. I don't know if they just look at the incoming cases or what but I suspect no and they are just complete bluffers. The UK is fundamentally broken in many ways here. Politicians are useless, the media is beyond ridiculous and the list goes on.

Stanley Johnson said Boris "took one for the team". What the f**k does that even mean.

It means that the moron in charge of the UK has a moron for a father.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 10, 2020, 11:11:38 AM
Medics still supporting the BCG hypothesis  (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.05.20054163v1)
(https://i.postimg.cc/zXWCtpVJ/BCG.png)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 12:18:38 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 10, 2020, 10:40:50 AM
Those last 2 posts resonate with me too. It's a scramble to find out any death tally and like you say keyser soze big death tallies in other countries are the headlines.

950 deaths and they say the lockdown won't end just yet. Utter madness. I don't know if they just look at the incoming cases or what but I suspect no and they are just complete bluffers. The UK is fundamentally broken in many ways here. Politicians are useless, the media is beyond ridiculous and the list goes on.

Stanley Johnson said Boris "took one for the team". What the f**k does that even mean.

There's an article somewhere that I read that David Cameron did a gutting job on the BBC when he was in power, i.e. putting like minded people in positions within that organisation to have influence on what news is presented and how.
FFS they even edited out the studio audience laughing during the QT leaders debate when Boris Johnson gave an answer when asked about the importance of trustworthiness, let alone changing the footage of him laying a wreath to that from the previous year as he made a balls of doing even that.

Sky news speaks for itself, ditto the Sun, the Daily Mail and the Telegraph and Peston on ITV is a Tory boy through and through although I do like his TV show.

Channel 4 is the only real serious news channel on the go at the moment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hardy on April 10, 2020, 12:44:55 PM
The BBC is an arm of the state. The right wing media are propaganda sheets for shady 'think tanks' that represent the ultra-rich 1% who don't think they should contribute to society. Look at how easily they got the nation demonising professional footballers for not taking a pay cut. Hedge fund managers, media billionaires, tax-dodging business moguls - not a mention.

The people who are keeping their sorry carcasses alive and delivering their food now are those they wanted to ban from the country a few months ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 10, 2020, 12:49:53 PM
Was astounded by the media also and their talks of when will the lockdown be relaxed!

If you were on the stage you'd love to tell them to f**king wind their necks in and get a real grasp of what's happening!!

Your moronic questions on this are beyond the pale!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 10, 2020, 01:01:45 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 10, 2020, 12:44:55 PM
The BBC is an arm of the state. The right wing media are propaganda sheets for shady 'think tanks' that represent the ultra-rich 1% who don't think they should contribute to society. Look at how easily they got the nation demonising professional footballers for not taking a pay cut. Hedge fund managers, media billionaires, tax-dodging business moguls - not a mention.

The people who are keeping their sorry carcasses alive and delivering their food now are those they wanted to ban from the country a few months ago.

Rather the irony there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 10, 2020, 01:30:06 PM
Those poor £50k a day chaps  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 10, 2020, 01:51:25 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 10:25:44 AM
what I found utterly astounding at the No10 daily press briefing on the day they'd just announced over 950 deaths in a single day, more than China, Italy or Spain ever reported the press were asking when the "lock down" would end.

The UK press are embarrassingly poor.

Channel 4 is about the only exception - even then - they sometimes get tunnel-vision on searching for scandal rather than the pertinent information.

ITV are more interested in talking about the queen than actual news and BBC might as well be back in WW2 with a military censorship given how much they slant presentation of information.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 02:04:13 PM
Quote from: five points on April 10, 2020, 01:01:45 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 10, 2020, 12:44:55 PM
The BBC is an arm of the state. The right wing media are propaganda sheets for shady 'think tanks' that represent the ultra-rich 1% who don't think they should contribute to society. Look at how easily they got the nation demonising professional footballers for not taking a pay cut. Hedge fund managers, media billionaires, tax-dodging business moguls - not a mention.

The people who are keeping their sorry carcasses alive and delivering their food now are those they wanted to ban from the country a few months ago.

Rather the irony there.

I'd say there's a certain disgust from the ruling elite that oafs that kick a ball are earning these worldy sums and the umbrage that come with it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 10, 2020, 02:16:21 PM
the more you look at journalism the more you realise it is *mainly* not a good career. There are so few who are more than puppets for some vile agenda. Kussenburg(spelling) on the BBC is horrendous and then you would have to ask how anyone with an ounce of human decency could write for the daily mail or the sun.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hardy on April 10, 2020, 02:22:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 10, 2020, 01:30:06 PM
Those poor £50k a day chaps  ::)

Missing my point. And making it, in a way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hardy on April 10, 2020, 02:25:09 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 02:04:13 PM
Quote from: five points on April 10, 2020, 01:01:45 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 10, 2020, 12:44:55 PM
The BBC is an arm of the state. The right wing media are propaganda sheets for shady 'think tanks' that represent the ultra-rich 1% who don't think they should contribute to society. Look at how easily they got the nation demonising professional footballers for not taking a pay cut. Hedge fund managers, media billionaires, tax-dodging business moguls - not a mention.

The people who are keeping their sorry carcasses alive and delivering their food now are those they wanted to ban from the country a few months ago.

Rather the irony there.

I'd say there's a certain disgust from the ruling elite that oafs that kick a ball are earning these worldy sums and the umbrage that come with it

It's that in one way, but more that the footballers provide a convenient 'look over there' opportunity to distract people from contemplating powerful people and corporations that are thousands of times wealthier.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 10, 2020, 02:27:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 10, 2020, 12:49:53 PM
Was astounded by the media also and their talks of when will the lockdown be relaxed!

If you were on the stage you'd love to tell them to f**king wind their necks in and get a real grasp of what's happening!!

Your moronic questions on this are beyond the pale!

Fox News are back to beating this drum again, after taking a break for a week when Trump listened to Fauci and Birx and extended the shutdown recommendations.

Expect Trump to start feeling the pressure from Hannity and Tucker.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 10, 2020, 02:52:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 10, 2020, 02:27:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 10, 2020, 12:49:53 PM
Was astounded by the media also and their talks of when will the lockdown be relaxed!

If you were on the stage you'd love to tell them to f**king wind their necks in and get a real grasp of what's happening!!

Your moronic questions on this are beyond the pale!

Fox News are back to beating this drum again, after taking a break for a week when Trump listened to Fauci and Birx and extended the shutdown recommendations.

Expect Trump to start feeling the pressure from Hannity and Tucker.

All heroes of the Pandumbic.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1246146713523453957
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 03:49:49 PM
Another 950 odd dead in UK hospitals in the last 24hrs but all is ok as Boris has moved into a regular ward and waved at the nurses he pays a pittance to.

He's a fighter is our Boris.


Never fought a thing in his entitled life...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on April 10, 2020, 04:16:50 PM
Restrictions in the ROI extended for another three weeks until 5 May.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on April 10, 2020, 04:30:11 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 10, 2020, 04:16:50 PM
Restrictions in the ROI extended for another three weeks until 5 May.

Not surprising its 3 weeks. 2 weeks would end it just before the May bank holiday.

Not sure the public will hack another extension after that so they better have some plan in place to ease restrictions but that probably means much more efficient testing (especially in getting results quicker) and contact tracing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 10, 2020, 04:40:17 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on April 10, 2020, 04:30:11 PM
Not sure the public will hack another extension after that

Well "the public" better get their heads around dealing with it.

We are nowhere near through this.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 10, 2020, 05:12:23 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 03:49:49 PM
Another 950 odd dead in UK hospitals in the last 24hrs but all is ok as Boris has moved into a regular ward and waved at the nurses he pays a pittance to.

He's a fighter is our Boris.


Never fought a thing in his entitled life...

It is f**king ridiculous. This thing shows us yet again, as if brexit wasn't enough, that we need to get away from the brits asap. They'll be the death of us (they are certainly the death of many these days).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 10, 2020, 05:30:50 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 10, 2020, 05:12:23 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 03:49:49 PM
Another 950 odd dead in UK hospitals in the last 24hrs but all is ok as Boris has moved into a regular ward and waved at the nurses he pays a pittance to.

He's a fighter is our Boris.


Never fought a thing in his entitled life...

It is f**king ridiculous. This thing shows us yet again, as if brexit wasn't enough, that we need to get away from the brits asap. They'll be the death of us (they are certainly the death of many these days).

980 today, which would be over 1000 if they counted everyone and not just those dying in hospitals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on April 10, 2020, 05:31:44 PM
Junior Cert cancelled.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ziggy90 on April 10, 2020, 05:44:12 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 03:49:49 PM
Another 950 odd dead in UK hospitals in the last 24hrs but all is ok as Boris has moved into a regular ward and waved at the nurses he pays a pittance to.

He's a fighter is our Boris.


Never fought a thing in his entitled life...

His father is quoted as saying 'he NEARLY took one for the team!'
:o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on April 10, 2020, 06:45:33 PM
Another table. Not sure there's any surprises

Deaths in Europe per population (no of deaths per million population) as of this morning with estimated population

1   Spain    330.77
2   Italy    304.65
3   Belgium    219.39
4   France    185.00
5   Netherlands    139.30
6   United Kingdom    119.07
7   Switzerland    110.23
8   Luxembourg    83.20
9   Sweden    77.75
10   Ireland    52.60
11   Denmark    40.86
12   Portugal    40.10
13   Austria    32.78
14   Germany    31.04
15   Slovenia    21.50
16   Norway    20.00
17   Estonia    18.46
18   Iceland    17.14
19   North Macedonia    15.00
20   Romania    12.72
21   Turkey    10.81
22   Czech    10.47
23   Cyprus    10.00
24   Bosnia    10.00
25   Moldova    9.67
26   Serbia    8.80
27   Greece    8.21
28   Hungary    7.94
29   Albania    7.93
30   Finland    7.64
31   Lithuania    6.80
32   Croatia    4.88
33   Poland    4.58
34   Bulgaria    3.43
35   Montenegro    3.33
36   Belarus    1.70
37   Latvia    1.58
38   Slovakia    0.37

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 10, 2020, 06:54:50 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 10, 2020, 06:45:33 PM
Another table. Not sure there's any surprises

Deaths in Europe per population (no of deaths per million population) as of this morning with estimated population
...

Great info, thanks. If you have a recurring source or link for this, an update every so often would be great so we can follow trends etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 10, 2020, 07:11:13 PM
Chit hitting the fan at the press conference. Looks like a certain daily figure should have an asterisk beside it. In fairness I can understand what Holahan is saying 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on April 10, 2020, 07:14:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 10, 2020, 05:30:50 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 10, 2020, 05:12:23 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 10, 2020, 03:49:49 PM
Another 950 odd dead in UK hospitals in the last 24hrs but all is ok as Boris has moved into a regular ward and waved at the nurses he pays a pittance to.

He's a fighter is our Boris.


Never fought a thing in his entitled life...

It is f**king ridiculous. This thing shows us yet again, as if brexit wasn't enough, that we need to get away from the brits asap. They'll be the death of us (they are certainly the death of many these days).

980 today, which would be over 1000 if they counted everyone and not just those dying in hospitals.
The hospital death stats are directly comparable with the EU countries tho, so a good indicator. The real death figures will make unpleasant reading near Christmas.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on April 10, 2020, 07:46:40 PM
What is going on down ROI way? My Twitter feed is full of angry, angry people yet this thread is totally absent of any sort of criticism?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Boycey on April 10, 2020, 08:25:30 PM
What are they angry about? Do they know? I usually find that people on Facebook and Twitter need to be told they're annoyed ..

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on April 10, 2020, 08:31:15 PM
Things are running pretty smoothly down here, I can't see any reason for complaints. There is an increased Garda presence and more checkpoints, but by and large people are abiding by the rules and acting responsibly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on April 10, 2020, 08:32:13 PM
ROI cases up to 8,089 which includes the results from tests sent to Germany. 287 have sadly died.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 10, 2020, 08:45:25 PM
Quote from: Boycey on April 10, 2020, 08:25:30 PM
What are they angry about? Do they know? I usually find that people on Facebook and Twitter need to be told they're annoyed ..
Facebook and Twitter was invented so that gobshites can moan and whinge about subjects which they know nothing about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on April 10, 2020, 08:49:29 PM
The numbers allowing for the German test results in the south don't really bother me as their reported as different times during the day - it's such a fast moving process.

Ewan McKenna really grinds my gears - his negativity is horrifying - I'd love to see some of these gobshites take on a role - sorry on second thoughts - id rather stick with the team we have!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 10:12:28 PM
Some of anger was due to a question being asked about how many people were waiting on a test and despite being asked a few times they refused to answer. I have a sneaking nagging feeling Republic not doing as good as they are letting on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Boycey on April 10, 2020, 10:23:38 PM
Didn't see it all only snippets but did Dr Holohan not say as there is nobody waiting on a test? He also appears to be answering the same questions repeatedly because those asking the questions don't understand the answers?

Given the choice of him and his qualifications or some politician or worse again some social media quack I'm siding with him.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 10:32:52 PM
Quote from: Boycey on April 10, 2020, 10:23:38 PM
Didn't see it all only snippets but did Dr Holohan not say as there is nobody waiting on a test? He also appears to be answering the same questions repeatedly because those asking the questions don't understand the answers?

Given the choice of him and his qualifications or some politician or worse again some social media quack I'm siding with him.

I didnt see it, that's what I heard. However it is utter bullshit to say no one is waiting on a test. The HSE changed the rules on contact tracing earlier this week because there was such a waiting list for tests.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Boycey on April 10, 2020, 10:44:23 PM
This is exactly what I'm talking about, I'm not sure what I heard, u never heard it at all but you are already sufficiently knowledgeable to be outraged..   

#imwithtony
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on April 10, 2020, 10:54:14 PM
Bit of good news on this long Good Friday https://twitter.com/lonewol86593179/status/1248719498263265280

Never doubted that Niall wouldn't win this fight  :)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: MayoBuck on April 10, 2020, 10:56:47 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 10:32:52 PM
Quote from: Boycey on April 10, 2020, 10:23:38 PM
Didn't see it all only snippets but did Dr Holohan not say as there is nobody waiting on a test? He also appears to be answering the same questions repeatedly because those asking the questions don't understand the answers?

Given the choice of him and his qualifications or some politician or worse again some social media quack I'm siding with him.

I didnt see it, that's what I heard. However it is utter bullshit to say no one is waiting on a test. The HSE changed the rules on contact tracing earlier this week because there was such a waiting list for tests.

The waiting list for getting tested is not bad at all. I know a man in his 60s who called his gp and got an appointment in Castlebar 2 days later. It's the waiting on results that's taking ages, with batches of tests being sent to Germany for processing.

The table @Hound put up earlier is interesting. Our rate of deaths is not brilliant by any means. Although some of the poorer nations may not be recording covid deaths as accurately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on April 10, 2020, 11:09:30 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on April 10, 2020, 10:54:14 PM
Bit of good news on this long Good Friday https://twitter.com/lonewol86593179/status/1248719498263265280

Never doubted that Niall wouldn't win this fight  :)

Brilliant news for him and his family. A great man who has much to do in the future.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on April 10, 2020, 11:22:11 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on April 10, 2020, 10:56:47 PM
The table @Hound put up earlier is interesting. Our rate of deaths is not brilliant by any means. Although some of the poorer nations may not be recording covid deaths as accurately.

Does anyone really believe that China had only 3000 odd deaths?

They've given the world this virus, wether intentionally or not and now we are paying them €Billions for dodgy PPE.

They've started a war without firing a shot. I'll never eat another three in one again.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 11:26:12 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on April 10, 2020, 10:56:47 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 10:32:52 PM
Quote from: Boycey on April 10, 2020, 10:23:38 PM
Didn't see it all only snippets but did Dr Holohan not say as there is nobody waiting on a test? He also appears to be answering the same questions repeatedly because those asking the questions don't understand the answers?

Given the choice of him and his qualifications or some politician or worse again some social media quack I'm siding with him.

I didnt see it, that's what I heard. However it is utter bullshit to say no one is waiting on a test. The HSE changed the rules on contact tracing earlier this week because there was such a waiting list for tests.

The waiting list for getting tested is not bad at all. I know a man in his 60s who called his gp and got an appointment in Castlebar 2 days later. It's the waiting on results that's taking ages, with batches of tests being sent to Germany for processing.

The table @Hound put up earlier is interesting. Our rate of deaths is not brilliant by any means. Although some of the poorer nations may not be recording covid deaths as accurately.

I think when people are talking about waiting lists they mean for test results. Sure the test itself is just a swab. 6/7 days people are waiting. Disingenuous to say mo one is waiting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on April 10, 2020, 11:28:04 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on April 10, 2020, 10:54:14 PM
Bit of good news on this long Good Friday https://twitter.com/lonewol86593179/status/1248719498263265280

Never doubted that Niall wouldn't win this fight  :)

So anyone that loses the fight didn't try as hard ??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 10, 2020, 11:37:16 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 10, 2020, 11:28:04 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on April 10, 2020, 10:54:14 PM
Bit of good news on this long Good Friday https://twitter.com/lonewol86593179/status/1248719498263265280

Never doubted that Niall wouldn't win this fight  :)

So anyone that loses the fight didn't try as hard ??
I hate this balls. Nobody "fights" cancer or Covid. You survive or you don't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 10, 2020, 11:39:56 PM
HSE "answering" questions...

https://twitter.com/JackHoJo/status/1248669720787783680?s=19
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on April 10, 2020, 11:49:27 PM
Reading this thread from the start is great fun.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 10, 2020, 11:50:40 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on April 10, 2020, 11:22:11 PM
Does anyone really believe that China had only 3000 odd deaths?

Why not?

After the initial f**kup, they acted far more decisively than any other nation outside Asia.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on April 10, 2020, 11:53:47 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 10, 2020, 11:37:16 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 10, 2020, 11:28:04 PM
Quote from: Ambrose on April 10, 2020, 10:54:14 PM
Bit of good news on this long Good Friday https://twitter.com/lonewol86593179/status/1248719498263265280

Never doubted that Niall wouldn't win this fight  :)

So anyone that loses the fight didn't try as hard ??
I hate this balls. Nobody "fights" cancer or Covid. You survive or you don't.

Jesus Christ.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 10, 2020, 11:57:20 PM
He's right, the use of "fighting talk" when it comes to cancer etc is embarrassing, and usually actively discouraged by cancer charities.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 11, 2020, 12:04:44 AM
Bit like saying prayers! Who's going to survive on prayers?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on April 11, 2020, 12:06:29 AM
As with Covid, with cancer the human body fights it in different ways. Some healthy bodies can't. Some unhealthy bodies do. And there's very little you can do about that. It doesn't have to be mentally as in a tabloid meaning.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 11, 2020, 12:10:36 AM
They keep saying the UK is flattering the curve! WTF
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on April 11, 2020, 12:16:20 AM
I personally don't trust any of the China figures whatsoever - likewise the African nations.

A friend is an outreach officer across a number of countries in Africa & has said its complete chaos - less than 50 being tested per day - deaths being recorded as other causes.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 11, 2020, 12:19:51 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0410/1129911-reagent-supplier/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on April 11, 2020, 04:09:10 AM
Quote from: five points on April 10, 2020, 06:54:50 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 10, 2020, 06:45:33 PM
Another table. Not sure there's any surprises

Deaths in Europe per population (no of deaths per million population) as of this morning with estimated population
...

Great info, thanks. If you have a recurring source or link for this, an update every so often would be great so we can follow trends etc.

Site below has that information for the world. Can be sorted by # deaths, deaths per m pop, reported cases, # tests per m pop etc.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Something not quite right with the fact Ireland have only reported 25 recoveries from 8,000 cases, same number as Bermuda (48 cases), Tunisia (671), Togo (76) & Zambia (40)
Sweden and India have the most similar numbers of cases to IReland (9685 & 7600) and they have recorded 381 and 774 recoveries respectively.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 11, 2020, 08:00:58 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 11, 2020, 04:09:10 AM
Quote from: five points on April 10, 2020, 06:54:50 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 10, 2020, 06:45:33 PM
Another table. Not sure there's any surprises

Deaths in Europe per population (no of deaths per million population) as of this morning with estimated population
...

Great info, thanks. If you have a recurring source or link for this, an update every so often would be great so we can follow trends etc.

Site below has that information for the world. Can be sorted by # deaths, deaths per m pop, reported cases, # tests per m pop etc.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Something not quite right with the fact Ireland have only reported 25 recoveries from 8,000 cases, same number as Bermuda (48 cases), Tunisia (671), Togo (76) & Zambia (40)
Sweden and India have the most similar numbers of cases to IReland (9685 & 7600) and they have recorded 381 and 774 recoveries respectively.

There is something not quite right about a whole lot of the figures doing the rounds regarding Covid 19.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on April 11, 2020, 08:13:01 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 11, 2020, 08:00:58 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 11, 2020, 04:09:10 AM
Quote from: five points on April 10, 2020, 06:54:50 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 10, 2020, 06:45:33 PM
Another table. Not sure there's any surprises

Deaths in Europe per population (no of deaths per million population) as of this morning with estimated population
...

Great info, thanks. If you have a recurring source or link for this, an update every so often would be great so we can follow trends etc.

Site below has that information for the world. Can be sorted by # deaths, deaths per m pop, reported cases, # tests per m pop etc.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Something not quite right with the fact Ireland have only reported 25 recoveries from 8,000 cases, same number as Bermuda (48 cases), Tunisia (671), Togo (76) & Zambia (40)
Sweden and India have the most similar numbers of cases to IReland (9685 & 7600) and they have recorded 381 and 774 recoveries respectively.

There is something not quite right about a whole lot of the figures doing the rounds regarding Covid 19.

Dr Gabriel Scally has repeatedly stated that the figures aren't close to the reality and the figures could be double in reality. The testing and traceability issue is huge. I could be a carrier and completely symptom-less. I could give it to countless people who are not able to fight it like me and could die. Mass community testing needed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: snoopdog on April 11, 2020, 08:39:25 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on April 11, 2020, 08:13:01 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 11, 2020, 08:00:58 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 11, 2020, 04:09:10 AM
Quote from: five points on April 10, 2020, 06:54:50 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 10, 2020, 06:45:33 PM
Another table. Not sure there's any surprises

Deaths in Europe per population (no of deaths per million population) as of this morning with estimated population
...

Great info, thanks. If you have a recurring source or link for this, an update every so often would be great so we can follow trends etc.

Site below has that information for the world. Can be sorted by # deaths, deaths per m pop, reported cases, # tests per m pop etc.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Something not quite right with the fact Ireland have only reported 25 recoveries from 8,000 cases, same number as Bermuda (48 cases), Tunisia (671), Togo (76) & Zambia (40)
Sweden and India have the most similar numbers of cases to IReland (9685 & 7600) and they have recorded 381 and 774 recoveries respectively.

There is something not quite right about a whole lot of the figures doing the rounds regarding Covid 19.

Dr Gabriel Scally has repeatedly stated that the figures aren't close to the reality and the figures could be double in reality. The testing and traceability issue is huge. I could be a carrier and completely symptom-less. I could give it to countless people who are not able to fight it like me and could die. Mass community testing needed

Does current  lockdown type procedures not reduce the need for mass testing? I suppose we will only find that out when restrictions are lifted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on April 11, 2020, 08:59:08 AM
Are the countries including deaths in care homes ? I believe France are now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on April 11, 2020, 09:24:09 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 11, 2020, 08:59:08 AM
Are the countries including deaths in care homes ? I believe France are now
Bit odd if they were excluding previously?!

I believe Spain's numbers include a very significant number in nursing homes.
They haven't put numbers on it in Ireland, but I think a decent sized number of our deaths have been in nursing homes.

France and Belgium's deaths have really increased over the last 4 or 5 days. Seems to be getting very little coverage compared to Spain, Italy and the UK, but they are definitely in the same bracket.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 11, 2020, 09:41:11 AM
No doubt the figures are all over the place. No one knows the number of cases. No one knows the number of deaths. No one knows the number of recoveries. It's a mess. Comparing figures and then the approaches of different countries appears to have very limited value.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on April 11, 2020, 11:39:18 AM
I see George Lee tweeted yesterday that 156 Irish Covid deaths relate to nursing home residents. 54% at the time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 11, 2020, 11:39:42 AM
Quote from: Hound on April 11, 2020, 09:24:09 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 11, 2020, 08:59:08 AM
Are the countries including deaths in care homes ? I believe France are now
Bit odd if they were excluding previously?!

I believe Spain's numbers include a very significant number in nursing homes.
They haven't put numbers on it in Ireland, but I think a decent sized number of our deaths have been in nursing homes.

France and Belgium's deaths have really increased over the last 4 or 5 days. Seems to be getting very little coverage compared to Spain, Italy and the UK, but they are definitely in the same bracket.


https://www.ft.com/content/d48f0438-7b1b-11ea-af44-daa3def9ae03

Across Europe there are signs that observance of stringent social distancing measures by the vast majority of the public — better compliance than many experts had expected — has led to a big decline in viral transmission. The key figure is the "reproduction number" R measuring the average number of new cases generated by an infected individual. If R is above 1, an outbreak spreads; if it is below 1, it contracts. For Covid-19, R was between 2.5 and 3 in most places before any measures were introduced.  According to a leading scientist in the UK's fight against the disease, the latest evidence shows a steep fall in the R rate to around 0.6 now, which would quickly suppress the pandemic. However, deaths are still rising fast because of the delay between infection and when serious symptoms develop.  Patrick Vallance, UK chief scientist, said on Thursday there were clear signs of new cases levelling off. But he added: "I would expect the deaths to keep going up for two weeks." 

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on April 11, 2020, 11:44:22 AM
Article on front page of UK Times - Vaccine could be ready by September. Vaccine being developed by Oxford University, human trials beginning in next fortnight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on April 11, 2020, 11:54:33 AM
That's the real hope of getting back to normality

Outside of that it'll be a restricted normal
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aaron Boone on April 11, 2020, 12:29:49 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 11, 2020, 11:44:22 AM
Article on front page of UK Times - Vaccine could be ready by September. Vaccine being developed by Oxford University, human trials beginning in next fortnight.


Could be a Nobel Prize winner.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on April 11, 2020, 01:41:58 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 11, 2020, 11:44:22 AM
Article on front page of UK Times - Vaccine could be ready by September. Vaccine being developed by Oxford University, human trials beginning in next fortnight.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Right from the start of this we've been told about the brilliant British scientists and how Britain has been following the best scientific advice. At the moment Britain is predicted to have the worst outcome of any European country. The herd immunity plan was a disaster and was born of complete arrogance because nobody really knew enough about the virus. Also Hancock, Johnson etc kept telling us about this antibody test the brilliant British scientists were going to produce which would be a game changer. Several failed attempts later we are still waiting. A lot of the strategy and planning was based around having the antibody test which they pinned their hopes on. Now we're being told that the brilliant British scientists will have a vaccine ready for September. I'll believe it when I see it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 11, 2020, 01:46:16 PM
Not cause I'm anti British but I'd put more faith into a vaccine being made in China rather Britain as they have been fighting these types of things for years.

Not because of herd immunity and not closing down early. That be a daft reason
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 11, 2020, 02:48:49 PM
156 deaths in Irish nursing homes. That's a big number in comparison to the overall number to date.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 11, 2020, 03:10:56 PM
Wouldn't a large percentage of deaths be nursing home residents anyway in normal times.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 11, 2020, 03:56:34 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 11, 2020, 02:48:49 PM
156 deaths in Irish nursing homes. That's a big number in comparison to the overall number to date.

Have the government put up a actual stat on that or is that just being reported by some guy on social media?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: redcard on April 11, 2020, 04:26:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 11, 2020, 03:56:34 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 11, 2020, 02:48:49 PM
156 deaths in Irish nursing homes. That's a big number in comparison to the overall number to date.

Have the government put up a actual stat on that or is that just being reported by some guy on social media?

Heard it on rte news last night myself
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 11, 2020, 05:08:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 11, 2020, 01:46:16 PM
Not cause I'm anti British but I'd put more faith into a vaccine being made in China rather Britain as they have been fighting these types of things for years.

Not because of herd immunity and not closing down early. That be a daft reason

I genuinely would not be anti British but it has to be said Britain is an absolute mess. The politicians they have are nothing but charlatans and the media are beyond ridiculous. Between how this has been handled and brexit(whether you are for or against)we've had nothing but misinformation at every single turn. They have a prime minister who people couldn't even trust when he said he had corona virus. It really has lost the run of itself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 11, 2020, 05:38:09 PM
We've had misfortunes since 1690 ffs!

Though to tar every scientist in Britain that they are useless or because of brexit, which the public voted for let's not forget that,  whether you or I were in favour for is not really the problem.

They got it wrong but every post nearly on here is finished off with the same shit! It's boring no one needs reminding on here
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 11, 2020, 05:50:22 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 11, 2020, 02:48:49 PM
156 deaths in Irish nursing homes. That's a big number in comparison to the overall number to date.

They definitely dropped the ball on this one, although at least they are counting them.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 11, 2020, 05:38:09 PM
We've had misfortunes since 1690 ffs!

It wasn't great craic in the 1640s either, the world did not start in 1690.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 11, 2020, 05:55:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 11, 2020, 05:50:22 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 11, 2020, 02:48:49 PM
156 deaths in Irish nursing homes. That's a big number in comparison to the overall number to date.

They definitely dropped the ball on this one, although at least they are counting them.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 11, 2020, 05:38:09 PM
We've had misfortunes since 1690 ffs!

It wasn't great craic in the 1640s either, the world did not start in 1690.

Well that's a date they ain't shoving down our throats! But yes Ireland wasn't in good shape till the Celtic Tiger kicked in
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 11, 2020, 07:14:17 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 11, 2020, 12:11:55 AM
Family and friends are "embarrassing" themselves with their rhetoric as their loved ones show signs of improvement from deadly diseases. Really? You can't let that slide?

On a cold, hard basis? Absolutely.

I've had loved ones die. My wife gave up her life for the best part of two years to nurse her mother through a terminal brain tumour. The suggestion of implication that she didn't "fight" as hard as others to beat a f**king brain tumour for which there is no cure is grossly offensive. You don't beat serious illness through "fighting". It's a function of your underlying physical condition, the quality of medical care you receive and blind luck. Hence why, like I said, use of "fighting talk" is generally discouraged by cancer charities.

Now, if you're asking me am I going to privately or publicly castigate, mock or ridicule someone who chooses to use such words, then of course not, because I'm not a f**king idiot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 11, 2020, 07:16:46 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 11, 2020, 04:09:10 AM
Quote from: five points on April 10, 2020, 06:54:50 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 10, 2020, 06:45:33 PM
Another table. Not sure there's any surprises

Deaths in Europe per population (no of deaths per million population) as of this morning with estimated population
...

Great info, thanks. If you have a recurring source or link for this, an update every so often would be great so we can follow trends etc.

Site below has that information for the world. Can be sorted by # deaths, deaths per m pop, reported cases, # tests per m pop etc.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


Really wish people would stop pushing this. The absolute spread of a virus and the success of efforts to combat it are not a function of population.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on April 11, 2020, 09:06:38 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 11, 2020, 07:16:46 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 11, 2020, 04:09:10 AM
Quote from: five points on April 10, 2020, 06:54:50 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 10, 2020, 06:45:33 PM
Another table. Not sure there's any surprises

Deaths in Europe per population (no of deaths per million population) as of this morning with estimated population
...

Great info, thanks. If you have a recurring source or link for this, an update every so often would be great so we can follow trends etc.

Site below has that information for the world. Can be sorted by # deaths, deaths per m pop, reported cases, # tests per m pop etc.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


Really wish people would stop pushing this. The absolute spread of a virus and the success of efforts to combat it are not a function of population.
Who the feck is "pushing" it??
Stats are of academic interest to many people, but you need to be careful of the conclusions you draw.
Some people just have no head for stats and so should absolutely ignore them.
Population is a factor, but by no means the most important factor. Population density for one is more important, and there are lots of others.

But I find it quite interesting, for example, the number of reported Covid 19 deaths in the following European countries and US states, all which have a population of in and around 10 mill, and to hypothesise as to why such huge variances arise between them:

Michigan 1,276
Sweden 887
Portugal 470
Georgia (US) 429
Czech 129
Greece 93
North Carolina 89
Hungary 85
Belarus 23

Another interesting one is that Romania's reported death rate has been running from the very beginning on a day by day basis almost in line with Ireland (apart from maybe the last 2/3 days where we've pushed ahead a little bit), despite the many differences in circumstances including their population being around 20 million.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 11, 2020, 11:05:33 PM
Who's pushing it? Journalists, commentators, Americans, world renowned statisticians/polemicists like Nate Silver. In short, lots of people.

Attempts to contain the virus have absolutely nothing to do with overall population size. With a virus, the aim is to stop it spreading. If you stop the infection at 10 cases and you've a population of 100 million, it doesn't mean you've done any better, any more etc than stopping it at 10 cases with a population of 1 million. The important stats are the absolute numbers of infections, deaths, hospitalisations, ICU admissions etc.

What is interesting on a per capita basis is the efforts at testing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 12, 2020, 01:42:17 AM
Quote from: gallsman on April 11, 2020, 07:16:46 PM
Really wish people would stop pushing this. The absolute spread of a virus and the success of efforts to combat it are not a function of population.

Cases per million is a  reasonable measure. But there is no point applying it to a large counry like China or the USA, or even Italy or Spain. In a smaller area this ratio is informative.

Better to look at regions/cities.
(https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/http%3A%2F%2Fcom.ft.imagepublish.upp-prod-eu.s3.amazonaws.com%2F3f569dd6-7c38-11ea-82f6-150830b3b99a?fit=scale-down&quality=highest&source=next&width=800)

Quote from: HoundMichigan 1,276
Sweden 887
Portugal 470
Georgia (US) 429
Czech 129
Greece 93
North Carolina 89
Hungary 85
Belarus 23

You could add Belgium to your list, pop 11m, 3346 deaths
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 12, 2020, 07:48:03 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 12, 2020, 01:42:17 AM
Cases per million is a  reasonable measure.

On what basis? That's not how viruses work. Say there's a 1,000 acre forest and a 1,000,000 acre forest and a fire starts in the South West corner of each. 100 acres are destroyed in each. That's 10% of the 1,000 acre forest but only 0.01% of the million acre one. The overall size of the forest is irrelevant when looking at how you're stopping the spread of the fire, it simply means the impact would be all the more catastrophic if you didn't act.

Insisting we look at port capita rates and deaths is simply away to pull the wool over stupid people's eyes, particularly in the US.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 12, 2020, 09:35:46 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 11, 2020, 08:59:08 AM
Are the countries including deaths in care homes ? I believe France are now
The UK is not. They state that their figure is hospital deaths only. If they have a similar % of Covid deaths outside hospitals, e.g.  nursing homes as Ireland, their true figure is really scary and they are running at 2000 per day. Even if that curve is flattened that is another 28000 people over the next 2 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on April 12, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
I think Ireland come in for some criticism around their figures & feel harshly so - as their by far the most detailed I've seen thus far

UK information is difficult or impossible to break out - I suppose cynicism leads you to question the extent of same as nursing homes figures raised above shows
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 12, 2020, 09:44:34 AM
It's very hard to believe anything coming out of the UK media these days. Sure they wouldn't even say how many health workers had died.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on April 12, 2020, 09:48:35 AM
Do you think that's a case of them deliberately suppressing information or just not knowing the answer to the question. I'd view both as bad as each other ... in yesterday's briefing the chief of police was asked how many fines & said will give the information next week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 09:59:29 AM
So is there separate stats for deaths in hospitals and Nursing homes? I take it there must be stats for people just dying in their homes who self isolated and possibly stats on homeless people who have died on the street or shelters?

What goes on the death certificate?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on April 12, 2020, 10:26:38 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on April 12, 2020, 09:48:35 AM
Do you think that's a case of them deliberately suppressing information or just not knowing the answer to the question. I'd view both as bad as each other ... in yesterday's briefing the chief of police was asked how many fines & said will give the information next week.

My opinion is they really don't care and they're not bothered about the stats. Their view is that 1-2% will be the mortality rate and they think this will be true for all countries. They also think around 60-80% of the population will be affected so the quicker it happens the better, all the while just trying to make sure the nhs is not overwhelmed. That way the economy gets up and running quicker. Some contrast to Germany, a country of similar size and population, where the government actually care about people. Johnson, Patel, Rabb and Hancock seem to be almost devoid of emotion and empathy at these press conferences and their attitude to the protection of nhs workers is completely shameful.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 11:16:19 AM
Quote from: lenny on April 12, 2020, 10:26:38 AM
Quote from: Will it ever end on April 12, 2020, 09:48:35 AM
Do you think that's a case of them deliberately suppressing information or just not knowing the answer to the question. I'd view both as bad as each other ... in yesterday's briefing the chief of police was asked how many fines & said will give the information next week.

My opinion is they really don't care and they're not bothered about the stats. Their view is that 1-2% will be the mortality rate and they think this will be true for all countries. They also think around 60-80% of the population will be affected so the quicker it happens the better, all the while just trying to make sure the nhs is not overwhelmed. That way the economy gets up and running quicker. Some contrast to Germany, a country of similar size and population, where the government actually care about people. Johnson, Patel, Rabb and Hancock seem to be almost devoid of emotion and empathy at these press conferences and their attitude to the protection of nhs workers is completely shameful.

Nearly 20 million more people in Germany higher cases lesser deaths, richer economy I'd say to better health system?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 12, 2020, 11:20:34 AM
Or people with cop on in Government?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 12, 2020, 11:25:42 AM
Herd immunity wasted time and increased the spread of the virus in the UK. Cheltenham was a joke.

Good analysis UK  vs Ireland here:

https://mobile.twitter.com/laineydoyle/status/1249127908876128259

The Germans are a few weeks ahead of the UK
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 11:51:48 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 12, 2020, 11:25:42 AM
Herd immunity wasted time and increased the spread of the virus in the UK. Cheltenham was a joke.

Good analysis UK  vs Ireland here:

https://mobile.twitter.com/laineydoyle/status/1249127908876128259

The Germans are a few weeks ahead of the UK

Another my dick is better than your dick chart!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 12, 2020, 12:23:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 11:51:48 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 12, 2020, 11:25:42 AM
Herd immunity wasted time and increased the spread of the virus in the UK. Cheltenham was a joke.

Good analysis UK  vs Ireland here:

https://mobile.twitter.com/laineydoyle/status/1249127908876128259

The Germans are a few weeks ahead of the UK

Another my dick is better than your dick chart!

Not really
"

@laineydoyle

As of Saturday 11 April, there have been 6.5 deaths per 100,000 people in Ireland. There have been 14.81 deaths per 100,000 people in the UK.

UK incl up there where youse are has a mortality rate roughly twice ours.

This is a big issue for Stormont.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Will it ever end on April 12, 2020, 12:52:54 PM
Thought it was a really good read & some perspective
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 12, 2020, 12:57:30 PM

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-uk-news-death-toll-boris-johnson-lockdown-extended/

Jeremy Farrar, director of the Wellcome Trust, said it was possible the UK could end up with the worst coronavirus death rate in Europe.

"Numbers in the UK have continued to go up, and yes, the UK is likely to be certainly one of the worst, if not the worst affected country in Europe," he told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 12, 2020, 01:47:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 12, 2020, 12:23:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 11:51:48 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 12, 2020, 11:25:42 AM
Herd immunity wasted time and increased the spread of the virus in the UK. Cheltenham was a joke.

Good analysis UK  vs Ireland here:

https://mobile.twitter.com/laineydoyle/status/1249127908876128259

The Germans are a few weeks ahead of the UK

Another my dick is better than your dick chart!

Not really
"

@laineydoyle

As of Saturday 11 April, there have been 6.5 deaths per 100,000 people in Ireland. There have been 14.81 deaths per 100,000 people in the UK.

UK incl up there where youse are has a mortality rate roughly twice ours.

This is a big issue for Stormont.
And how does it fare out in terms of population density?
NI has a lower population than either GB or the Republic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 12, 2020, 01:56:06 PM
As of yet it has not been anywhere near as big an issue as expected in ni sf.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 02:01:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 12, 2020, 01:47:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 12, 2020, 12:23:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 11:51:48 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 12, 2020, 11:25:42 AM
Herd immunity wasted time and increased the spread of the virus in the UK. Cheltenham was a joke.

Good analysis UK  vs Ireland here:

https://mobile.twitter.com/laineydoyle/status/1249127908876128259

The Germans are a few weeks ahead of the UK

Another my dick is better than your dick chart!

Not really
"

@laineydoyle

As of Saturday 11 April, there have been 6.5 deaths per 100,000 people in Ireland. There have been 14.81 deaths per 100,000 people in the UK.

UK incl up there where youse are has a mortality rate roughly twice ours.

This is a big issue for Stormont.
And how does it fare out in terms of population density?
NI has a lower population than either GB or the Republic.

How does it fair with Portugal, twice the population? Or with Australia 25 million people 59 death. What is the Republic not doing that they are?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 12, 2020, 02:07:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 02:01:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 12, 2020, 01:47:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 12, 2020, 12:23:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 11:51:48 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 12, 2020, 11:25:42 AM
Herd immunity wasted time and increased the spread of the virus in the UK. Cheltenham was a joke.

Good analysis UK  vs Ireland here:

https://mobile.twitter.com/laineydoyle/status/1249127908876128259

The Germans are a few weeks ahead of the UK

Another my dick is better than your dick chart!

Not really
"

@laineydoyle

As of Saturday 11 April, there have been 6.5 deaths per 100,000 people in Ireland. There have been 14.81 deaths per 100,000 people in the UK.

UK incl up there where youse are has a mortality rate roughly twice ours.

This is a big issue for Stormont.
And how does it fare out in terms of population density?
NI has a lower population than either GB or the Republic.

How does it fair with Portugal, twice the population? Or with Australia 25 million people 59 death. What is the Republic not doing that they are?
Maybe there's more than one contributing factor to one of the most complex health crises in modern human history?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 02:23:47 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 12, 2020, 02:07:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 02:01:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 12, 2020, 01:47:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 12, 2020, 12:23:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 11:51:48 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 12, 2020, 11:25:42 AM
Herd immunity wasted time and increased the spread of the virus in the UK. Cheltenham was a joke.

Good analysis UK  vs Ireland here:

https://mobile.twitter.com/laineydoyle/status/1249127908876128259

The Germans are a few weeks ahead of the UK

Another my dick is better than your dick chart!

Not really
"

@laineydoyle

As of Saturday 11 April, there have been 6.5 deaths per 100,000 people in Ireland. There have been 14.81 deaths per 100,000 people in the UK.

UK incl up there where youse are has a mortality rate roughly twice ours.

This is a big issue for Stormont.
And how does it fare out in terms of population density?
NI has a lower population than either GB or the Republic.

How does it fair with Portugal, twice the population? Or with Australia 25 million people 59 death. What is the Republic not doing that they are?
Maybe there's more than one contributing factor to one of the most complex health crises in modern human history?

Nope, I think if we keep looking at the UK and their death rate and how inept their government is that'll solve it!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 12, 2020, 02:34:12 PM
Very good twitter thread here that may be of interest...

https://twitter.com/laineydoyle/status/1249127908876128259?s=19
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ty4Sam on April 12, 2020, 02:40:28 PM
For those interested in Covid 19 from a NI perspective, Aaron Donaghey on Facebook is giving a good insight into it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 02:45:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 12, 2020, 12:23:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 11:51:48 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 12, 2020, 11:25:42 AM
Herd immunity wasted time and increased the spread of the virus in the UK. Cheltenham was a joke.

Good analysis UK  vs Ireland here:

https://mobile.twitter.com/laineydoyle/status/1249127908876128259

The Germans are a few weeks ahead of the UK

Another my dick is better than your dick chart!

Not really
"

@laineydoyle

As of Saturday 11 April, there have been 6.5 deaths per 100,000 people in Ireland. There have been 14.81 deaths per 100,000 people in the UK.

UK incl up there where youse are has a mortality rate roughly twice ours.

This is a big issue for Stormont.

Quote from: Itchy on April 12, 2020, 02:34:12 PM
Very good twitter thread here that may be of interest...

https://twitter.com/laineydoyle/status/1249127908876128259?s=19

Been done already but let's put it up again just in case.  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2020, 03:24:09 PM
All these comparisons are absolutely futile. London has almost 10 million residents made up of people from all parts of the globe, higher population density, massive public transport network, has 2 major international airport hubs etc. etc. It's like me comparing the cases in Armagh to those in Dublin. A load of balls.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on April 12, 2020, 03:37:41 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2020, 03:24:09 PM
All these comparisons are absolutely futile. London has almost 10 million residents made up of people from all parts of the globe, higher population density, massive public transport network, has 2 major international airport hubs etc. etc. It's like me comparing the cases in Armagh to those in Dublin. A load of balls.

Comparisons are not futile at all. Germany has several large cities of over a million and with plenty of immigrants. They also have a larger population than the uk. They have many, many fewer deaths. That is enough to show the uk have handled this crisis very poorly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 12, 2020, 03:37:41 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2020, 03:24:09 PM
All these comparisons are absolutely futile. London has almost 10 million residents made up of people from all parts of the globe, higher population density, massive public transport network, has 2 major international airport hubs etc. etc. It's like me comparing the cases in Armagh to those in Dublin. A load of balls.

Comparisons are not futile at all. Germany has several large cities of over a million and with plenty of immigrants. They also have a larger population than the uk. They have many, many fewer deaths. That is enough to show the uk have handled this crisis very poorly.

Jesus lads, seriously? Tell us one more time they've handled it poorly!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2020, 03:51:50 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 12, 2020, 03:37:41 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2020, 03:24:09 PM
All these comparisons are absolutely futile. London has almost 10 million residents made up of people from all parts of the globe, higher population density, massive public transport network, has 2 major international airport hubs etc. etc. It's like me comparing the cases in Armagh to those in Dublin. A load of balls.

Comparisons are not futile at all. Germany has several large cities of over a million and with plenty of immigrants. They also have a larger population than the uk. They have many, many fewer deaths. That is enough to show the uk have handled this crisis very poorly.
All correct. They invested in testing and isolation early on which was key to their success. The Brits dropped the ball on a number of fronts and wasted weeks. However, what is the point in continued comparisons? The numbers will be what they are and every case is different. At one stage the Italians had high numbers down to their family relationships, their habit of kissing etc. That has meant nothing for the UK and Ireland.

The population density of England is twice that of Germany according to wiki.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 12, 2020, 04:10:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 12, 2020, 03:37:41 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2020, 03:24:09 PM
All these comparisons are absolutely futile. London has almost 10 million residents made up of people from all parts of the globe, higher population density, massive public transport network, has 2 major international airport hubs etc. etc. It's like me comparing the cases in Armagh to those in Dublin. A load of balls.

Comparisons are not futile at all. Germany has several large cities of over a million and with plenty of immigrants. They also have a larger population than the uk. They have many, many fewer deaths. That is enough to show the uk have handled this crisis very poorly.

Jesus lads, seriously? Tell us one more time they've handled it poorly!

Did anyone seriously think the UK would handle it well with Boris in charge likewise the USA with Trump?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2020, 04:19:48 PM
America is bolloxed. Just seen their line on the cases and deaths graph on the BBC.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 12, 2020, 05:28:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 12, 2020, 03:37:41 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2020, 03:24:09 PM
All these comparisons are absolutely futile. London has almost 10 million residents made up of people from all parts of the globe, higher population density, massive public transport network, has 2 major international airport hubs etc. etc. It's like me comparing the cases in Armagh to those in Dublin. A load of balls.

Comparisons are not futile at all. Germany has several large cities of over a million and with plenty of immigrants. They also have a larger population than the uk. They have many, many fewer deaths. That is enough to show the uk have handled this crisis very poorly.

Jesus lads, seriously? Tell us one more time they've handled it poorly!
Somebody get this man his Snickers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 12, 2020, 05:53:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 12, 2020, 03:37:41 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2020, 03:24:09 PM
All these comparisons are absolutely futile. London has almost 10 million residents made up of people from all parts of the globe, higher population density, massive public transport network, has 2 major international airport hubs etc. etc. It's like me comparing the cases in Armagh to those in Dublin. A load of balls.

Comparisons are not futile at all. Germany has several large cities of over a million and with plenty of immigrants. They also have a larger population than the uk. They have many, many fewer deaths. That is enough to show the uk have handled this crisis very poorly.

Jesus lads, seriously? Tell us one more time they've handled it poorly!

I know you are a closet admirer of British rule but the purpose of that twitter post was to point out how the British media has done nothing to point out the facts of what has happened, to put pressure on their government to improve. It is still very relevant. For example, you have to dig a bit to find the total deaths in the UK on a particular day, yet a few weeks ago when Italy was really in the shit the BBC and others had their deaths sprayed across the top of their home pages. The British media are not holding their government to account which is pathetic, even by their very low standards.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 12, 2020, 06:10:37 PM
The biggest letdown is the bbc. Journalism in the uk is more or less dead and this illustrates it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Orior on April 12, 2020, 06:17:36 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 12, 2020, 04:10:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 12, 2020, 03:37:41 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2020, 03:24:09 PM
All these comparisons are absolutely futile. London has almost 10 million residents made up of people from all parts of the globe, higher population density, massive public transport network, has 2 major international airport hubs etc. etc. It's like me comparing the cases in Armagh to those in Dublin. A load of balls.

Comparisons are not futile at all. Germany has several large cities of over a million and with plenty of immigrants. They also have a larger population than the uk. They have many, many fewer deaths. That is enough to show the uk have handled this crisis very poorly.

Jesus lads, seriously? Tell us one more time they've handled it poorly!

Did anyone seriously think the UK would handle it well with Boris in charge likewise the USA with Trump?

Trump is more worried about his rating, than about the number of deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 12, 2020, 06:28:54 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 12, 2020, 06:17:36 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 12, 2020, 04:10:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 12, 2020, 03:37:41 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2020, 03:24:09 PM
All these comparisons are absolutely futile. London has almost 10 million residents made up of people from all parts of the globe, higher population density, massive public transport network, has 2 major international airport hubs etc. etc. It's like me comparing the cases in Armagh to those in Dublin. A load of balls.

Comparisons are not futile at all. Germany has several large cities of over a million and with plenty of immigrants. They also have a larger population than the uk. They have many, many fewer deaths. That is enough to show the uk have handled this crisis very poorly.

Jesus lads, seriously? Tell us one more time they've handled it poorly!

Did anyone seriously think the UK would handle it well with Boris in charge likewise the USA with Trump?

Trump is more worried about his rating, than about the number of deaths.
Yes apparently he's getting higher ratings than the season finale of the Bachelor  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 12, 2020, 06:33:34 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2020, 04:19:48 PM
America is bolloxed. Just seen their line on the cases and deaths graph on the BBC.

Eric Lipton

@EricLiptonNYT

As part of our reporting, The NYT obtained hundreds of emails among a group of the top pandemic experts in the US--doctors at HHS, DHS, State, VA, as well as former gov drs--as they watched the pandemic unfold in the United States. Here are some of their observations.


https://mobile.twitter.com/EricLiptonNYT/status/1249012275681337345
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 12, 2020, 05:53:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 12, 2020, 03:37:41 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2020, 03:24:09 PM
All these comparisons are absolutely futile. London has almost 10 million residents made up of people from all parts of the globe, higher population density, massive public transport network, has 2 major international airport hubs etc. etc. It's like me comparing the cases in Armagh to those in Dublin. A load of balls.

Comparisons are not futile at all. Germany has several large cities of over a million and with plenty of immigrants. They also have a larger population than the uk. They have many, many fewer deaths. That is enough to show the uk have handled this crisis very poorly.

Jesus lads, seriously? Tell us one more time they've handled it poorly!

I know you are a closet admirer of British rule but the purpose of that twitter post was to point out how the British media has done nothing to point out the facts of what has happened, to put pressure on their government to improve. It is still very relevant. For example, you have to dig a bit to find the total deaths in the UK on a particular day, yet a few weeks ago when Italy was really in the shit the BBC and others had their deaths sprayed across the top of their home pages. The British media are not holding their government to account which is pathetic, even by their very low standards.

I've seen plenty of quotes and watched plenty news were people in the UK have stated the same facts that have been pointed out infinity on here, that horse bolted after the allowing of PL games and the lower divisions, the CL game in Liverpool and Cheltenham! The herd immunity thing was more bullshit but the horse had bolted, the BBC is no different to FOX news and most media owners will dictate what's said based on their own needs!

The tweets won't change any course of this, it's a blame game which is totally meaningless, the lockdown is going into fourth week on Tuesday, not much more you can do really. But sure carry on with it. Don't forget to remind me about how inept the Brits are please. In case I forget ;D

As for your dig on bring a closet admirer of the brits that would fit well with you free staters when yas abandoned the North, but hey, I'm as Irish you.  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 12, 2020, 06:52:51 PM
The bbc is very different to Fox News. You, and I, presumably pay a license fee to them. They are more or less a "state" broadcaster. Fox News are not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 07:03:31 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 12, 2020, 06:52:51 PM
The bbc is very different to Fox News. You, and I, presumably pay a license fee to them. They are more or less a "state" broadcaster. Fox News are not.

The BBC should be impartial and as a person who pays a licence fee I have a place where I can register a complaint with, whether anything is done on that is another thing, I personally wouldn't watch too much news, channel four news for me or local.

Why would I want to watch the news though when all the experts are on here with up to date accurate news and links towards it? It's non biased and allows for different views to be aired and debated.  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 12, 2020, 07:11:11 PM
Fox News republican, cnn democrat, openly. Very interesting to read both daily
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on April 12, 2020, 07:15:23 PM
Interesting to see Hannity go off on one against CNN WaPo today after bring so badly caught out he has absolutely no shame the ****!!

CNN are no angels either but there's something about Hannity maybe it's the used car salesman thing but he has one of those faces that's pure slime... a lot like Trump to be fair.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 12, 2020, 07:48:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 07:03:31 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 12, 2020, 06:52:51 PM
The bbc is very different to Fox News. You, and I, presumably pay a license fee to them. They are more or less a "state" broadcaster. Fox News are not.

The BBC should be impartial and as a person who pays a licence fee I have a place where I can register a complaint with, whether anything is done on that is another thing, I personally wouldn't watch too much news, channel four news for me or local.

Why would I want to watch the news though when all the experts are on here with up to date accurate news and links towards it? It's non biased and allows for different views to be aired and debated.  ::)

I remember when the BBC referred to the British forces in the Falklands war as "them" and said "if they are to be believed." They took a lot of heat for it at the time, but it was a good bit of neutral journalism IMHO. I doubt if they'd do it today. I've always found it a bit jarring when American news networks refer to US forces as "our troops" as if it's a football match they're reporting on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on April 12, 2020, 07:57:45 PM
This is like the General Electook thread, some on here want the UK to be the leading country when it comes to deaths from Covid19 just to say I told you about those nasty Tories. It's really peculiar
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 12, 2020, 09:25:18 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 12, 2020, 07:57:45 PM
This is like the General Electook thread, some on here want the UK to be the leading country when it comes to deaths from Covid19 just to say I told you about those nasty Tories. It's really peculiar

Really?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 09:30:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 12, 2020, 09:25:18 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 12, 2020, 07:57:45 PM
This is like the General Electook thread, some on here want the UK to be the leading country when it comes to deaths from Covid19 just to say I told you about those nasty Tories. It's really peculiar

Really?

You can't see this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on April 12, 2020, 10:46:07 PM
There is a very obvious and unhealthy obsession with some wanting the Brits to fail in everything they do, even some expert opinion seems inclined towards it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on April 12, 2020, 10:49:11 PM
I assume this is a right wing US outlet,

https://www.independentsentinel.com/swedens-coronavirus-gamble-is-playing-out-in-a-fascinating-way/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 10:56:56 PM
If we can flatten things over the next 3 weeks we might get out of this with a lesser predicted number.

Over 100 in the north and 334 in the south! Over 400 lives lost and not yet at our peak.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on April 12, 2020, 11:03:19 PM
I am starting to look less and less at the "graphs" as we don't seem to be comparing apples with apples for a lot of countries, are all countries just including deaths where Covid19 is the cause of death, if you die "with" Covid 19, of you die because of Covid19 etc. It seemed pretty straightforward at the start, as if we were looking at a football league table but it's a lot more complex

I don't think we will know for quite some time how each country dealt with the pandemic
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 12:34:33 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 12, 2020, 10:49:11 PM
I assume this is a right wing US outlet,

https://www.independentsentinel.com/swedens-coronavirus-gamble-is-playing-out-in-a-fascinating-way/

Seems that way. That article is not going to age very well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 13, 2020, 12:56:32 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 12:34:33 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 12, 2020, 10:49:11 PM
I assume this is a right wing US outlet,

https://www.independentsentinel.com/swedens-coronavirus-gamble-is-playing-out-in-a-fascinating-way/

Seems that way. That article is not going to age very well.

It already has, Denmark is hardly a remote country..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 13, 2020, 01:15:49 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 12:34:33 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 12, 2020, 10:49:11 PM
I assume this is a right wing US outlet,

https://www.independentsentinel.com/swedens-coronavirus-gamble-is-playing-out-in-a-fascinating-way/

Seems that way. That article is not going to age very well.

The premise is f**king idiotic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on April 13, 2020, 01:47:50 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 12, 2020, 06:10:37 PM
The biggest letdown is the bbc. Journalism in the uk is more or less dead and this illustrates it.

UK press has been neutered to some extent in the last couple of weeks by Johnson's illness. Any attack on his government's approach to things is an attack on his leadership. And it doesn't play well to appear to be going after a man on his sickbed (even his deathbed, as it maybe seemed for a short while).

The timing of his illness will probably be Johnson's saviour at the end of all this. He has managed to escape the scene just before the shit really began to hit the fan, and will likely ride back into town when things begin to pick up. A 'lucky' man in more ways than one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on April 13, 2020, 09:07:58 AM
As Alaistair Campbell has been pointing out over recent days, the format of the N10 briefings suits the Government, but the questions being asked are being asked badly, they're generally 3 Qs in 1 and are leaving way too much wiggle room. He reckons the Qs need to be singular and on point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 13, 2020, 09:23:09 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 13, 2020, 09:07:58 AM
As Alaistair Campbell has been pointing out over recent days, the format of the N10 briefings suits the Government, but the questions being asked are being asked badly, they're generally 3 Qs in 1 and are leaving way too much wiggle room. He reckons the Qs need to be singular and on point.

Ive noticed this myself. Its easy to not answer a part you dont like when there are two other parts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 13, 2020, 09:43:15 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 13, 2020, 01:47:50 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 12, 2020, 06:10:37 PM
The biggest letdown is the bbc. Journalism in the uk is more or less dead and this illustrates it.

UK press has been neutered to some extent in the last couple of weeks by Johnson's illness. Any attack on his government's approach to things is an attack on his leadership. And it doesn't play well to appear to be going after a man on his sickbed (even his deathbed, as it maybe seemed for a short while).

The timing of his illness will probably be Johnson's saviour at the end of all this. He has managed to escape the scene just before the shit really began to hit the fan, and will likely ride back into town when things begin to pick up. A 'lucky' man in more ways than one.

I still see people doing believe him. Thoroughly untrustworthy though I think this time he may be telling the truth. I can see why people wouldn't believe anything to come out of his mouth though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 13, 2020, 10:19:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 12, 2020, 05:53:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 12, 2020, 03:37:41 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2020, 03:24:09 PM
All these comparisons are absolutely futile. London has almost 10 million residents made up of people from all parts of the globe, higher population density, massive public transport network, has 2 major international airport hubs etc. etc. It's like me comparing the cases in Armagh to those in Dublin. A load of balls.

Comparisons are not futile at all. Germany has several large cities of over a million and with plenty of immigrants. They also have a larger population than the uk. They have many, many fewer deaths. That is enough to show the uk have handled this crisis very poorly.

Jesus lads, seriously? Tell us one more time they've handled it poorly!

I know you are a closet admirer of British rule but the purpose of that twitter post was to point out how the British media has done nothing to point out the facts of what has happened, to put pressure on their government to improve. It is still very relevant. For example, you have to dig a bit to find the total deaths in the UK on a particular day, yet a few weeks ago when Italy was really in the shit the BBC and others had their deaths sprayed across the top of their home pages. The British media are not holding their government to account which is pathetic, even by their very low standards.

I've seen plenty of quotes and watched plenty news were people in the UK have stated the same facts that have been pointed out infinity on here, that horse bolted after the allowing of PL games and the lower divisions, the CL game in Liverpool and Cheltenham! The herd immunity thing was more bullshit but the horse had bolted, the BBC is no different to FOX news and most media owners will dictate what's said based on their own needs!

The tweets won't change any course of this, it's a blame game which is totally meaningless, the lockdown is going into fourth week on Tuesday, not much more you can do really. But sure carry on with it. Don't forget to remind me about how inept the Brits are please. In case I forget ;D

As for your dig on bring a closet admirer of the brits that would fit well with you free staters when yas abandoned the North, but hey, I'm as Irish you.  ;)

It's not meaningless to report facts and hold government to account, it's one of the primary jobs of media and certainly it's most important. If you look at this and think that is actually happening, well the only  conclusion I can draw is that you are looking at this through Brit tinted glasses, perhaps a form of Stockholm Syndrome. When you call a fellow Ulsterman a freestater like proud unionists do I think that is confirmed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2020, 12:35:43 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 13, 2020, 10:19:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 12, 2020, 05:53:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 12, 2020, 03:37:41 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2020, 03:24:09 PM
All these comparisons are absolutely futile. London has almost 10 million residents made up of people from all parts of the globe, higher population density, massive public transport network, has 2 major international airport hubs etc. etc. It's like me comparing the cases in Armagh to those in Dublin. A load of balls.

Comparisons are not futile at all. Germany has several large cities of over a million and with plenty of immigrants. They also have a larger population than the uk. They have many, many fewer deaths. That is enough to show the uk have handled this crisis very poorly.

Jesus lads, seriously? Tell us one more time they've handled it poorly!

I know you are a closet admirer of British rule but the purpose of that twitter post was to point out how the British media has done nothing to point out the facts of what has happened, to put pressure on their government to improve. It is still very relevant. For example, you have to dig a bit to find the total deaths in the UK on a particular day, yet a few weeks ago when Italy was really in the shit the BBC and others had their deaths sprayed across the top of their home pages. The British media are not holding their government to account which is pathetic, even by their very low standards.

I've seen plenty of quotes and watched plenty news were people in the UK have stated the same facts that have been pointed out infinity on here, that horse bolted after the allowing of PL games and the lower divisions, the CL game in Liverpool and Cheltenham! The herd immunity thing was more bullshit but the horse had bolted, the BBC is no different to FOX news and most media owners will dictate what's said based on their own needs!

The tweets won't change any course of this, it's a blame game which is totally meaningless, the lockdown is going into fourth week on Tuesday, not much more you can do really. But sure carry on with it. Don't forget to remind me about how inept the Brits are please. In case I forget ;D

As for your dig on bring a closet admirer of the brits that would fit well with you free staters when yas abandoned the North, but hey, I'm as Irish you.  ;)

It's not meaningless to report facts and hold government to account, it's one of the primary jobs of media and certainly it's most important. If you look at this and think that is actually happening, well the only  conclusion I can draw is that you are looking at this through Brit tinted glasses, perhaps a form of Stockholm Syndrome. When you call a fellow Ulsterman a freestater like proud unionists do I think that is confirmed.

Continue to call me a Brit and I'll call you a freestater. That's simple enough to work out.

The fascination with the UK government and their policies, which have no bearing on people that live in the Republic is curious, you shouldn't have to hold them to account (the Dublin government has plenty issues to resolve) we've been trying to do that since, well you know the history there.

It's a pointless task and asking the tv media to do it is never really going to cut it, the tabloid press back in the day would have but I don't read papers anymore so I don't know if they do, I watch a bit Peston every now and again and he generally does, Paxman when he was going was good also.

If you can point out somewhere or put up a post that I'm supporting the brits then maybe your Stockholm syndrome might be right.

I try and work to a day by day approach for disasters, Brexit, Covid, Jobs I can't predict the future and I'll deal with the problem when it arrives on my doorstep. You're trying to solve problems that aren't even in your own county! Why would you be bothered?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 13, 2020, 01:25:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 09:30:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 12, 2020, 09:25:18 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 12, 2020, 07:57:45 PM
This is like the General Electook thread, some on here want the UK to be the leading country when it comes to deaths from Covid19 just to say I told you about those nasty Tories. It's really peculiar

Really?

You can't see this?
Of course he can't  because no one said it.
Plenty saying the Brits got it wrong with their herd immunity nonsense and losing valuable time etc. Also their media not highlighting the number of deaths while they had been trumpeting Italian and Spanish figures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 13, 2020, 04:07:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2020, 12:35:43 PM
The fascination with the UK government and their policies, which have no bearing on people that live in the Republic is curious, you shouldn't have to hold them to account (the Dublin government has plenty issues to resolve) we've been trying to do that since, well you know the history there.

If there is someone pissing in the other end of the pool, then that it is of interest. We'd like to get the bollix out of the pool, but if that ain't possible then asking him to stopping pissing is reasonable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 13, 2020, 04:41:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2020, 04:07:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2020, 12:35:43 PM
The fascination with the UK government and their policies, which have no bearing on people that live in the Republic is curious, you shouldn't have to hold them to account (the Dublin government has plenty issues to resolve) we've been trying to do that since, well you know the history there.

If there is someone pissing in the other end of the pool, then that it is of interest. We'd like to get the bollix out of the pool, but if that ain't possible then asking him to stopping pissing is reasonable.

More like a big load of diarrhea than piss.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on April 13, 2020, 05:40:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 13, 2020, 01:25:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 09:30:11 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 12, 2020, 09:25:18 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 12, 2020, 07:57:45 PM
This is like the General Electook thread, some on here want the UK to be the leading country when it comes to deaths from Covid19 just to say I told you about those nasty Tories. It's really peculiar

Really?

You can't see this?
Of course he can't  because no one said it.
Plenty saying the Brits got it wrong with their herd immunity nonsense and losing valuable time etc. Also their media not highlighting the number of deaths while they had been trumpeting Italian and Spanish figures.
I see you following up on this reporting of Italian & Spanish deaths, I would have thought there is a simple explanation, firstly it was big news a couple of weeks ago and now the UK's numbers have become greater the other countries figures carry less significance for a UK audience? It is also simply not true that UK figures are not being reported, try following N10, Dept of Health & Social Care or Public Health England or any of the NI Executive departments for local NI updates, but then maybe you're not really interested?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 13, 2020, 05:45:43 PM
I'm merely refuting a claim that people on here were "wanting the UK " to have more deaths than elsewhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on April 13, 2020, 06:08:06 PM
992 additional cases confirmed today in the ROI, 527 new confirmed cases from Irish labs.
465 confirmed in German labs. Total confirmed cases in ROI is now at 10,647.

31 deaths today, 365 people have now died in the ROI since the outbreak began.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 06:28:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2020, 12:35:43 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 13, 2020, 10:19:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 12, 2020, 05:53:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 12, 2020, 03:37:41 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2020, 03:24:09 PM
All these comparisons are absolutely futile. London has almost 10 million residents made up of people from all parts of the globe, higher population density, massive public transport network, has 2 major international airport hubs etc. etc. It's like me comparing the cases in Armagh to those in Dublin. A load of balls.

Comparisons are not futile at all. Germany has several large cities of over a million and with plenty of immigrants. They also have a larger population than the uk. They have many, many fewer deaths. That is enough to show the uk have handled this crisis very poorly.

Jesus lads, seriously? Tell us one more time they've handled it poorly!

I know you are a closet admirer of British rule but the purpose of that twitter post was to point out how the British media has done nothing to point out the facts of what has happened, to put pressure on their government to improve. It is still very relevant. For example, you have to dig a bit to find the total deaths in the UK on a particular day, yet a few weeks ago when Italy was really in the shit the BBC and others had their deaths sprayed across the top of their home pages. The British media are not holding their government to account which is pathetic, even by their very low standards.

I've seen plenty of quotes and watched plenty news were people in the UK have stated the same facts that have been pointed out infinity on here, that horse bolted after the allowing of PL games and the lower divisions, the CL game in Liverpool and Cheltenham! The herd immunity thing was more bullshit but the horse had bolted, the BBC is no different to FOX news and most media owners will dictate what's said based on their own needs!

The tweets won't change any course of this, it's a blame game which is totally meaningless, the lockdown is going into fourth week on Tuesday, not much more you can do really. But sure carry on with it. Don't forget to remind me about how inept the Brits are please. In case I forget ;D

As for your dig on bring a closet admirer of the brits that would fit well with you free staters when yas abandoned the North, but hey, I'm as Irish you.  ;)

It's not meaningless to report facts and hold government to account, it's one of the primary jobs of media and certainly it's most important. If you look at this and think that is actually happening, well the only  conclusion I can draw is that you are looking at this through Brit tinted glasses, perhaps a form of Stockholm Syndrome. When you call a fellow Ulsterman a freestater like proud unionists do I think that is confirmed.

Continue to call me a Brit and I'll call you a freestater. That's simple enough to work out.

The fascination with the UK government and their policies, which have no bearing on people that live in the Republic is curious, you shouldn't have to hold them to account (the Dublin government has plenty issues to resolve) we've been trying to do that since, well you know the history there.

It's a pointless task and asking the tv media to do it is never really going to cut it, the tabloid press back in the day would have but I don't read papers anymore so I don't know if they do, I watch a bit Peston every now and again and he generally does, Paxman when he was going was good also.

If you can point out somewhere or put up a post that I'm supporting the brits then maybe your Stockholm syndrome might be right.

I try and work to a day by day approach for disasters, Brexit, Covid, Jobs I can't predict the future and I'll deal with the problem when it arrives on my doorstep. You're trying to solve problems that aren't even in your own county! Why would you be bothered?

Remember Irish governments kicking up a stink about Sellafield? It's a bit like that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 13, 2020, 07:03:12 PM
Viruses don't do borders :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 13, 2020, 08:37:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
The tweets won't change any course of this, it's a blame game which is totally meaningless, the lockdown is going into fourth week on Tuesday, not much more you can do really. But sure carry on with it. Don't forget to remind me about how inept the Brits are please. In case I forget ;D

There are quite a few things that the UK govt could still change that would help matters.

- PPE into nursing homes to try and stop spread within the homes..
- Much greater testing in nursing homes of both carers and cared for so carers are not carrying the virus in the door.
- Creating a layer of separation between all workers in nursing homes and the general population, i.e. they get food drops at their home doorstep rather than run the gaunlet at the shops. Would it really be beyond the wit of man to place them on high priority lists for all the main supermarkets?
- If they don't have sufficient testing capabilities to filter the country (which is fair enough at the moment), then pick out areas, be they counties or something else and one by one try to test everyone in the county/region to the point you know who has it, who doesn't and can ease local lockdowns and get small parts of the economy going again.


Of course, it suits the govt agenda to portray it as "everything that can be done, is being done" - when that patently is not the case.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 13, 2020, 08:40:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2020, 12:35:43 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 13, 2020, 10:19:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 12, 2020, 05:53:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2020, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 12, 2020, 03:37:41 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2020, 03:24:09 PM
All these comparisons are absolutely futile. London has almost 10 million residents made up of people from all parts of the globe, higher population density, massive public transport network, has 2 major international airport hubs etc. etc. It's like me comparing the cases in Armagh to those in Dublin. A load of balls.

Comparisons are not futile at all. Germany has several large cities of over a million and with plenty of immigrants. They also have a larger population than the uk. They have many, many fewer deaths. That is enough to show the uk have handled this crisis very poorly.

Jesus lads, seriously? Tell us one more time they've handled it poorly!

I know you are a closet admirer of British rule but the purpose of that twitter post was to point out how the British media has done nothing to point out the facts of what has happened, to put pressure on their government to improve. It is still very relevant. For example, you have to dig a bit to find the total deaths in the UK on a particular day, yet a few weeks ago when Italy was really in the shit the BBC and others had their deaths sprayed across the top of their home pages. The British media are not holding their government to account which is pathetic, even by their very low standards.

I've seen plenty of quotes and watched plenty news were people in the UK have stated the same facts that have been pointed out infinity on here, that horse bolted after the allowing of PL games and the lower divisions, the CL game in Liverpool and Cheltenham! The herd immunity thing was more bullshit but the horse had bolted, the BBC is no different to FOX news and most media owners will dictate what's said based on their own needs!

The tweets won't change any course of this, it's a blame game which is totally meaningless, the lockdown is going into fourth week on Tuesday, not much more you can do really. But sure carry on with it. Don't forget to remind me about how inept the Brits are please. In case I forget ;D

As for your dig on bring a closet admirer of the brits that would fit well with you free staters when yas abandoned the North, but hey, I'm as Irish you.  ;)

It's not meaningless to report facts and hold government to account, it's one of the primary jobs of media and certainly it's most important. If you look at this and think that is actually happening, well the only  conclusion I can draw is that you are looking at this through Brit tinted glasses, perhaps a form of Stockholm Syndrome. When you call a fellow Ulsterman a freestater like proud unionists do I think that is confirmed.

Continue to call me a Brit and I'll call you a freestater. That's simple enough to work out.

The fascination with the UK government and their policies, which have no bearing on people that live in the Republic is curious, you shouldn't have to hold them to account (the Dublin government has plenty issues to resolve) we've been trying to do that since, well you know the history there.

It's a pointless task and asking the tv media to do it is never really going to cut it, the tabloid press back in the day would have but I don't read papers anymore so I don't know if they do, I watch a bit Peston every now and again and he generally does, Paxman when he was going was good also.

If you can point out somewhere or put up a post that I'm supporting the brits then maybe your Stockholm syndrome might be right.

I try and work to a day by day approach for disasters, Brexit, Covid, Jobs I can't predict the future and I'll deal with the problem when it arrives on my doorstep. You're trying to solve problems that aren't even in your own county! Why would you be bothered?

You call me a Freestater because  I called you a Brit? Where did I call you a Brit? I've never called any Irishman a Brit in my life, even unionists. I said you were a closet admirer of British rule.

And you cant be that stupid to think Boris and his band of fools and their mess ups have no effect on the republic? It effects irish citizens in the Britain, it affects irish citizens in the 6 counties and since no virus stops at  borders it also will effect people in the Republic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 13, 2020, 08:43:40 PM
Question re. nursing homes. I know a lot of these people are vulnerable to start off with so why are they not being sent to hospital when they have symptoms? Someone online said they being allowed to die in homes to save the NHS (and younger victims).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 13, 2020, 08:58:24 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 13, 2020, 08:43:40 PM
Question re. nursing homes. I know a lot of these people are vulnerable to start off with so why are they not being sent to hospital when they have symptoms? Someone online said they being allowed to die in homes to save the NHS (and younger victims).

Because hospitals have no real treatment for Covid19, other than oxygen, which can be provided in the nursing home. The heavy duty ventilator approaches are not suitable for frail octogenarians.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2020, 09:16:53 PM
Over 3,000 have gird in nursing homes in the UK. That was the stat last night, be a lot more plus workers in those places must be freaking out everyday they go to work
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 13, 2020, 09:26:52 PM
There were stories doing the rounds in Italy and Spain that there were old peoples homes where the staff just legged it and the army had to come in. How true that is I don't know but you could well believe it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 13, 2020, 09:39:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 13, 2020, 09:26:52 PM
There were stories doing the rounds in Italy and Spain that there were old peoples homes where the staff just legged it and the army had to come in. How true that is I don't know but you could well believe it

There is some truth to that. But staff in these places had little or no PPE, a lot of them came down with the virus and had to isolate, so things became increasingly impossible for those left. In most cases they didn't just leg it, but had been calling for help for many days. These types of homes are a real point of vulnerability and places that have kept the deaths down have had a plan for such places.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 13, 2020, 09:43:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2020, 09:39:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 13, 2020, 09:26:52 PM
There were stories doing the rounds in Italy and Spain that there were old peoples homes where the staff just legged it and the army had to come in. How true that is I don't know but you could well believe it

There is some truth to that. But staff in these places had little or no PPE, a lot of them came down with the virus and had to isolate, so things became increasingly impossible for those left. In most cases they didn't just leg it, but had been calling for help for many days. These types of homes are a real point of vulnerability and places that have kept the deaths down have had a plan for such places.

Yeah just look at the GP situation up here now too. You wouldn't blame them for not wanting to work in that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 13, 2020, 09:43:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2020, 09:39:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 13, 2020, 09:26:52 PM
There were stories doing the rounds in Italy and Spain that there were old peoples homes where the staff just legged it and the army had to come in. How true that is I don't know but you could well believe it

There is some truth to that. But staff in these places had little or no PPE, a lot of them came down with the virus and had to isolate, so things became increasingly impossible for those left. In most cases they didn't just leg it, but had been calling for help for many days. These types of homes are a real point of vulnerability and places that have kept the deaths down have had a plan for such places.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-52014023

Also watched some distressing scenes from Ecuador on the news last night. People have to keep bodies at home for days on end as there was no collection service or coffins/ burial services.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2020, 09:47:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2020, 09:39:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 13, 2020, 09:26:52 PM
There were stories doing the rounds in Italy and Spain that there were old peoples homes where the staff just legged it and the army had to come in. How true that is I don't know but you could well believe it

There is some truth to that. But staff in these places had little or no PPE, a lot of them came down with the virus and had to isolate, so things became increasingly impossible for those left. In most cases they didn't just leg it, but had been calling for help for many days. These types of homes are a real point of vulnerability and places that have kept the deaths down have had a plan for such places.

How could you plan for this? I never heard one expert on here discuss it other that the SARS, Bird flu and other virus attacks which were not global to this extent.

Unfortunately it takes something like this to change mindsets. Everyone,  every country it seems was caught out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 13, 2020, 09:56:30 PM
You can't but you can at least listen to who advice and do as much testing as you can. That is before the ppe debacle. Then there is contact tracing. Then your media can highlight it rather than fawning over you lying sheister of a prime minister. (I wished him no ill but he is the second worst man you could have in charge of a country at a time like this and we all know who the worst is).

I am not an expert just appalled at how broken the UK has become between politicians and media.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on April 13, 2020, 10:03:42 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 13, 2020, 09:56:30 PM
You can't but you can at least listen to who advice and do as much testing as you can. That is before the ppe debacle. Then there is contact tracing. Then your media can highlight it rather than fawning over you lying sheister of a prime minister. (I wished him no ill but he is the second worst man you could have in charge of a country at a time like this and we all know who the worst is).

I am not an expert just appalled at how broken the UK has become between politicians and media.

+1.  I find the media reporting of the British situation to be awful, seems like the government own all of the media messaging.  Sky and BBC seem to spend more time reporting the ongoings in Italy, Spain and New York, rather than the headline grabber of 11,000 of their own citizens dead and the UK on a trajectory to become the worst hit country in Europe.  Meanwhile in Germany a professional and competent government are taking the necessary measures to protect their citizens. 

There needs to be a public enquiry in the UK as to the government's mishandling of the COVID-19 crisis, where they've caused 1000's of their citizens to die, but alas, I cannot envisage the PM or government in general ever having to answer any such questions.  Shambolic, and downright sad for all those and their families who've lost their lives due to Boris's herd immunity policy!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 13, 2020, 10:07:12 PM
Interested to see how the Swedes fair out long term. Think it may be the best approach.  A disciplined society where the over 70s and vulnerable isolate and the healthly part of the population go about their daily activities in a disciplined manner,  could in the long term be the best approach. Lockdowns in the medium to long term are just not practical.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 13, 2020, 10:09:24 PM
Exactly and that is not anti British sentiment. The number of lives lost speak for themselves. Heads should roll for this and lots of them.  Italy had no forewarning really. The uk had.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 13, 2020, 10:12:09 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-concerns-in-northern-ireland-over-under-reported-deaths-1.4227765?mode=amp
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 13, 2020, 10:20:35 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 13, 2020, 10:07:12 PM
Interested to see how the Swedes fair out long term. Think it may be the best approach.  A disciplined society where the over 70s and vulnerable isolate and the healthly part of the population go about their daily activities in a disciplined manner,  could in the long term be the best approach. Lockdowns in the medium to long term are just not practical.

And then again it may not be. Taking a roll of the dice with thousands of your citizens' lives is a bit of a reckless strategy IMHO.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2020, 10:59:40 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 13, 2020, 10:12:09 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-concerns-in-northern-ireland-over-under-reported-deaths-1.4227765?mode=amp

Surely with social media the way it is, these deaths that aren't being recorded (according to the doctor in this report) would be highlighted plus (I'd asked before) what goes on the  death certificates for Covid deaths?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 14, 2020, 12:03:12 AM
As bad as Boris is, this fella a whole different level of stupid.

https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1249743660138233858?s=19
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 12:28:01 AM
http://www.irishnews.com/coronavirus/2020/04/10/news/glengormley-man-living-in-china-says-life-is-totally-back-to-normal-after-11-week-lock-down-1896930/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 14, 2020, 01:32:46 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2020, 10:59:40 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 13, 2020, 10:12:09 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-concerns-in-northern-ireland-over-under-reported-deaths-1.4227765?mode=amp

Surely with social media the way it is, these deaths that aren't being recorded (according to the doctor in this report) would be highlighted plus (I'd asked before) what goes on the  death certificates for Covid deaths?
Death certicates can state covid 19 as cause of death. But only positive tests are counted in the UK figures. This has been stated numerous times in press briefings etc. The daily death total is likely double. The stats will be poured over in the months and years ahead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on April 14, 2020, 07:51:03 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on April 13, 2020, 10:03:42 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 13, 2020, 09:56:30 PM
You can't but you can at least listen to who advice and do as much testing as you can. That is before the ppe debacle. Then there is contact tracing. Then your media can highlight it rather than fawning over you lying sheister of a prime minister. (I wished him no ill but he is the second worst man you could have in charge of a country at a time like this and we all know who the worst is).

I am not an expert just appalled at how broken the UK has become between politicians and media.

+1.  I find the media reporting of the British situation to be awful, seems like the government own all of the media messaging.  Sky and BBC seem to spend more time reporting the ongoings in Italy, Spain and New York, rather than the headline grabber of 11,000 of their own citizens dead and the UK on a trajectory to become the worst hit country in Europe.  Meanwhile in Germany a professional and competent government are taking the necessary measures to protect their citizens. 

There needs to be a public enquiry in the UK as to the government's mishandling of the COVID-19 crisis, where they've caused 1000's of their citizens to die, but alas, I cannot envisage the PM or government in general ever having to answer any such questions.  Shambolic, and downright sad for all those and their families who've lost their lives due to Boris's herd immunity policy!!!
Public enquiries all over the world are a certainty (I wouldn't be so confident of a Trump backed US one tbh) Part of the procedure of Government for such an occurrence. It'll be cross party in the UK too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 14, 2020, 08:05:52 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 14, 2020, 07:51:03 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on April 13, 2020, 10:03:42 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 13, 2020, 09:56:30 PM
You can't but you can at least listen to who advice and do as much testing as you can. That is before the ppe debacle. Then there is contact tracing. Then your media can highlight it rather than fawning over you lying sheister of a prime minister. (I wished him no ill but he is the second worst man you could have in charge of a country at a time like this and we all know who the worst is).

I am not an expert just appalled at how broken the UK has become between politicians and media.

+1.  I find the media reporting of the British situation to be awful, seems like the government own all of the media messaging.  Sky and BBC seem to spend more time reporting the ongoings in Italy, Spain and New York, rather than the headline grabber of 11,000 of their own citizens dead and the UK on a trajectory to become the worst hit country in Europe.  Meanwhile in Germany a professional and competent government are taking the necessary measures to protect their citizens. 

There needs to be a public enquiry in the UK as to the government's mishandling of the COVID-19 crisis, where they've caused 1000's of their citizens to die, but alas, I cannot envisage the PM or government in general ever having to answer any such questions.  Shambolic, and downright sad for all those and their families who've lost their lives due to Boris's herd immunity policy!!!
Public enquiries all over the world are a certainty (I wouldn't be so confident of a Trump backed US one tbh) Part of the procedure of Government for such an occurrence. It'll be cross party in the UK too.


Lets be honest it was the same for the Brexit vote - the media pushed the governments agenda.

Its amazing that Piers Morgan seems to be the only journalist/presenter holding the government to account.

I have no love for him but at least he is asking the right questions - was reading at the weekend that most government ministers wont even go on his breakfast show.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 14, 2020, 08:13:28 AM
They seem to be held to account for nothing. At this point the daily mail and the sun should just be shut down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2020, 09:31:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 14, 2020, 08:13:28 AM
They seem to be held to account for nothing. At this point the daily mail and the sun should just be shut down.

Think there is a go fund me doing the rounds to save both papers at the moment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 14, 2020, 09:48:35 AM
ONS have stitched on another 2000 deaths in England and Wales on top of those announced by the government (to 3rd Apr).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: upmonaghansayswe on April 14, 2020, 10:52:45 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 14, 2020, 09:48:35 AM
ONS have stitched on another 2000 deaths in England and Wales on top of those announced by the government (to 3rd Apr).

Just trying to get figures from the BBC website (which is an exercise in itself)

Main Blog
Of the 406 deaths involving Covid-19 in England and Wales registered in the year up to April 3, that occurred outside hospitals:

217 took place in care homes
33 in hospices
136 in homes
3 in other communal establishments, and
17 elsewhere


Is there more splitting going on or where is the 2000 coming from?

Edit - 10% of the total deaths at any stage..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 14, 2020, 12:03:19 PM
Quote from: upmonaghansayswe on April 14, 2020, 10:52:45 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 14, 2020, 09:48:35 AM
ONS have stitched on another 2000 deaths in England and Wales on top of those announced by the government (to 3rd Apr).

Just trying to get figures from the BBC website (which is an exercise in itself)

Main Blog
Of the 406 deaths involving Covid-19 in England and Wales registered in the year up to April 3, that occurred outside hospitals:

217 took place in care homes
33 in hospices
136 in homes
3 in other communal establishments, and
17 elsewhere


Is there more splitting going on or where is the 2000 coming from?

Edit - 10% of the total deaths at any stage..
Try this.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/articles/comparisonofweeklydeathoccurrencesinenglandandwales/uptoweekending3april2020 (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/articles/comparisonofweeklydeathoccurrencesinenglandandwales/uptoweekending3april2020)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 14, 2020, 12:23:44 PM
What was death figures for the same period last year?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: upmonaghansayswe on April 14, 2020, 12:37:16 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 14, 2020, 12:03:19 PM
Quote from: upmonaghansayswe on April 14, 2020, 10:52:45 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 14, 2020, 09:48:35 AM
ONS have stitched on another 2000 deaths in England and Wales on top of those announced by the government (to 3rd Apr).

Just trying to get figures from the BBC website (which is an exercise in itself)

Main Blog
Of the 406 deaths involving Covid-19 in England and Wales registered in the year up to April 3, that occurred outside hospitals:

217 took place in care homes
33 in hospices
136 in homes
3 in other communal establishments, and
17 elsewhere


Is there more splitting going on or where is the 2000 coming from?

Edit - 10% of the total deaths at any stage..
Try this.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/articles/comparisonofweeklydeathoccurrencesinenglandandwales/uptoweekending3april2020 (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/articles/comparisonofweeklydeathoccurrencesinenglandandwales/uptoweekending3april2020)

Thanks, thats a great summary. One more question - so the 2000 odd include suspected cases as mentioned on a death cert and the 406 are definite cases?.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 12:39:48 PM
The figures will all come out properly at the end, this isn't China or Russia or North Korea. As bad as the Brits have been you can't hide this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on April 14, 2020, 12:59:21 PM
Two of the largest providers of care homes in the UK have revealed the deaths of 521 residents from coronavirus in recent weeks, in the clearest sign yet of the rising scale of fatalities outside the NHS which have not been officially announced.

HC-One, which operates about 350 homes, said that as of 8pm on Monday there had been 311 deaths from confirmed or suspected Covid-19, with outbreaks in two thirds of its homes. MHA, a charitable operator, said there have been 210 deaths across 131 homes, with outbreaks in about half of its homes.

That is only two care providers !
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on April 14, 2020, 01:04:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 12:39:48 PM
The figures will all come out properly at the end, this isn't China or Russia or North Korea. As bad as the Brits have been you can't hide this

They'll find a way, they always do. Then there will be an enquiry and the British public will be told lessons have been learned, etc, etc. By the time the full story emerges we'll have moved on to the next scandal and cover up. We've been here before unfortunately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on April 14, 2020, 01:20:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2020, 09:47:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2020, 09:39:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 13, 2020, 09:26:52 PM
There were stories doing the rounds in Italy and Spain that there were old peoples homes where the staff just legged it and the army had to come in. How true that is I don't know but you could well believe it

There is some truth to that. But staff in these places had little or no PPE, a lot of them came down with the virus and had to isolate, so things became increasingly impossible for those left. In most cases they didn't just leg it, but had been calling for help for many days. These types of homes are a real point of vulnerability and places that have kept the deaths down have had a plan for such places.

How could you plan for this? I never heard one expert on here discuss it other that the SARS, Bird flu and other virus attacks which were not global to this extent.

Unfortunately it takes something like this to change mindsets. Everyone,  every country it seems was caught out

There were plenty of people *on this thread* talking about early stage mitigation procedures which could and should have been put in place to minimise the effect of this on people.  Personally, I feel that the decisions taken by businesses and the GAA in the north were influenced by people of this ilk in the wider community and very definitely helped things by their early actions.

Experts *on this thread* were telling those people to shut up because they didn't like what they were hearing and "there's nothing we can do about it so we may as well just let it play out".

Those "experts" include you.   ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 14, 2020, 01:28:10 PM
Quote from: delgany on April 14, 2020, 12:59:21 PM
Two of the largest providers of care homes in the UK have revealed the deaths of 521 residents from coronavirus in recent weeks, in the clearest sign yet of the rising scale of fatalities outside the NHS which have not been officially announced.

HC-One, which operates about 350 homes, said that as of 8pm on Monday there had been 311 deaths from confirmed or suspected Covid-19, with outbreaks in two thirds of its homes. MHA, a charitable operator, said there have been 210 deaths across 131 homes, with outbreaks in about half of its homes.

That is only two care providers !
Wouldn't surprise me if the UK have the highest death count in Europe right now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2020, 01:34:10 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 14, 2020, 12:23:44 PM
What was death figures for the same period last year?

Can't speak to Britain, but in NYC, the reported deaths from COVID have been five times the normal background rate.

And that is officially acknowledged as likely an undercount.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 01:40:11 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 14, 2020, 01:20:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2020, 09:47:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2020, 09:39:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 13, 2020, 09:26:52 PM
There were stories doing the rounds in Italy and Spain that there were old peoples homes where the staff just legged it and the army had to come in. How true that is I don't know but you could well believe it

There is some truth to that. But staff in these places had little or no PPE, a lot of them came down with the virus and had to isolate, so things became increasingly impossible for those left. In most cases they didn't just leg it, but had been calling for help for many days. These types of homes are a real point of vulnerability and places that have kept the deaths down have had a plan for such places.

How could you plan for this? I never heard one expert on here discuss it other that the SARS, Bird flu and other virus attacks which were not global to this extent.

Unfortunately it takes something like this to change mindsets. Everyone,  every country it seems was caught out

There were plenty of people *on this thread* talking about early stage mitigation procedures which could and should have been have been put in place to minimise the effect of this on people.  Personally, I feel that the decisions taken by businesses and the GAA in the north were influenced by people of this ilk in the wider community and very definitely helped things by their early actions.

Experts *on this thread* were telling those people to shut up because they didn't like what they were hearing and "there's nothing we can do about it so we may as well just let it play out".

Those "experts" include you.   ::)

Take your hard on for me elsewhere, I'm not into that ;)

I'm talking about long before that. not a week or two into this, as no one thought it would spread like it did.

I put a thread up on experts, to gauge who would actually know what they were talking about rather than trailing things of Wiki or Google, letting things play out I'm nearly sure I said for Brexit after it was voted, its going to be a lot worse after this, but I'd that's the least of the economies worries.

But sure just keep rowing in behind my posts every so often ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: upmonaghansayswe on April 14, 2020, 01:49:59 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 14, 2020, 12:23:44 PM
What was death figures for the same period last year?

From 2010 - 2019 the highest weekly deaths in England and Wales for Week 14 of the year was about 12k. The lowest for the same period was 8k. Week 14 of 2020 is 16k.

https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1250007002165755905/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1250007002165755905/photo/1)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 02:18:55 PM
A friend of mine has 3 or 4 care homes, was speaking to his wife this morning while out walking the dogs,  he stopped visits very early on, early than recommended, to date no deaths in any of his places due to Covid. He's struggling with care assistants in terms of getting them in and as she said, can you blame them?

She and their three daughters have been in helping out to cover staff shortages, the staff must shower and change before leaving and obviously self isolate and be honest with management to what they are doing outside of work. All disposable clothes too

She was saying there are other places where the staff have moved into the care home! Some commitment there.

The other thing she mentioned was the people in the homes are starting to go a bit stare crazy, routines have been ripped up and as much as the staff try all they want to do us see their family and if this is their last part of their lives then they'd be happy to just see them. Very sad
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 14, 2020, 02:21:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 02:18:55 PM
The other thing she mentioned was the people in the homes are starting to go a bit stare crazy, routines have been ripped up and as much as the staff try all they want to do us see their family and if this is their last part of their lives then they'd be happy to just see them. Very sad

Very sad indeed.

Same is becoming increasingly true for over-70s living alone who have been cocooned for weeks on end now with the prospect of many more weeks to come. Not everyone will be resilient enough to cope with this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 02:25:51 PM
Quote from: five points on April 14, 2020, 02:21:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 02:18:55 PM
The other thing she mentioned was the people in the homes are starting to go a bit stare crazy, routines have been ripped up and as much as the staff try all they want to do us see their family and if this is their last part of their lives then they'd be happy to just see them. Very sad

Very sad indeed.

Same is becoming increasingly true for over-70s living alone who have been cocooned for weeks on end now with the prospect of many more weeks to come. Not everyone will be resilient enough to cope with this.

Personally I'd ask my mum or dad or the in-laws to move in if one of them were on their own.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 14, 2020, 02:30:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 01:40:11 PMas no one thought it would spread like it did.

Are you for real?

Why do you think I was so exasperated in February?

Pardon (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1957669#msg1957669) me for understanding (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1957685#msg1957685) what a f**king exponential (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1957936#msg1957936) curve (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1958791#msg1958791) looks like.

[What I've posted here is extremely mild compared to what I've posted elsewhere.]


Government have f**ked up and their academic advisers just remind you of the saying - "Those who can, do. Those who can't, talk about it." Bunch of clowns living in theoretical dream-worlds without a pragmatic bone in their bodies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 14, 2020, 02:33:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 02:25:51 PM
Personally I'd ask my mum or dad or the in-laws to move in if one of them were on their own.

If your gonna do that, you have to be very sure that your contact points with others outside that family isolation bubble are as few and low risk as possible!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 14, 2020, 02:40:45 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 14, 2020, 02:33:15 PM
If your gonna do that, you have to be very sure that your contact points with others outside that family isolation bubble are as few and low risk as possible!

Pretty much impossible IMHO unless for example you can somehow delegate the shopping to an outsider.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 02:44:18 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 14, 2020, 02:33:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 02:25:51 PM
Personally I'd ask my mum or dad or the in-laws to move in if one of them were on their own.

If your gonna do that, you have to be very sure that your contact points with others outside that family isolation bubble are as few and low risk as possible!

The shop is the most dangerous place I'm at! I'd like to think I'm safe, meet no one else
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 14, 2020, 03:03:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2020, 01:34:10 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 14, 2020, 12:23:44 PM
What was death figures for the same period last year?

Can't speak to Britain, but in NYC, the reported deaths from COVID have been five times the normal background rate.

And that is officially acknowledged as likely an undercount.
Jeepers. That is scary.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 14, 2020, 03:11:15 PM
Quote from: five points on April 14, 2020, 02:40:45 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 14, 2020, 02:33:15 PM
If your gonna do that, you have to be very sure that your contact points with others outside that family isolation bubble are as few and low risk as possible!

Pretty much impossible IMHO unless for example you can somehow delegate the shopping to an outsider.

That's what we do for her parents.

I shop, we wash, she brings them to parents and either goes in masked/gloved or drops at door. Her bro is back home and living with them in isolation.

Pretty much all we can do really.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 14, 2020, 03:15:01 PM
Quote from: upmonaghansayswe on April 14, 2020, 01:49:59 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 14, 2020, 12:23:44 PM
What was death figures for the same period last year?

From 2010 - 2019 the highest weekly deaths in England and Wales for Week 14 of the year was about 12k. The lowest for the same period was 8k. Week 14 of 2020 is 16k.

https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1250007002165755905/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1250007002165755905/photo/1)
Cheers
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2020, 03:20:58 PM
Quote from: upmonaghansayswe on April 14, 2020, 01:49:59 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 14, 2020, 12:23:44 PM
What was death figures for the same period last year?

From 2010 - 2019 the highest weekly deaths in England and Wales for Week 14 of the year was about 12k. The lowest for the same period was 8k. Week 14 of 2020 is 16k.

https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1250007002165755905/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1250007002165755905/photo/1)

Very useful actual figures and statistics. Not guesswork.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 14, 2020, 03:24:13 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 14, 2020, 02:30:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 01:40:11 PMas no one thought it would spread like it did.

Are you for real?

Why do you think I was so exasperated in February?

Pardon (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1957669#msg1957669) me for understanding (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1957685#msg1957685) what a f**king exponential (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1957936#msg1957936) curve (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1958791#msg1958791) looks like.

[What I've posted here is extremely mild compared to what I've posted elsewhere.]


Government have f**ked up and their academic advisers just remind you of the saying - "Those who can, do. Those who can't, talk about it." Bunch of clowns living in theoretical dream-worlds without a pragmatic bone in their bodies.

In fairness to you Radio you were the most vocal AND most accurate about this whole scenario from the beginning.......

There were some people who were at best taking the piss out of what you were saying (I can think of two posters right away - am sure others know who they are) and at worst being completely condescending.

I hope you are wrong about everything else you have said........ :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2020, 03:31:25 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 14, 2020, 03:24:13 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 14, 2020, 02:30:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 01:40:11 PMas no one thought it would spread like it did.

Are you for real?

Why do you think I was so exasperated in February?

Pardon (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1957669#msg1957669) me for understanding (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1957685#msg1957685) what a f**king exponential (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1957936#msg1957936) curve (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1958791#msg1958791) looks like.

[What I've posted here is extremely mild compared to what I've posted elsewhere.]


Government have f**ked up and their academic advisers just remind you of the saying - "Those who can, do. Those who can't, talk about it." Bunch of clowns living in theoretical dream-worlds without a pragmatic bone in their bodies.

In fairness to you Radio you were the most vocal AND most accurate about this whole scenario from the beginning.......

There were some people who were at best taking the piss out of what you were saying (I can think of two posters right away - am sure others know who they are) and at worst being completely condescending.

I hope you are wrong about everything else you have said........ :-\

Yep. Impressive stuff.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 14, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d7b9fd_cbbad88ec5d5448ebad49b053761c114~mv2.png)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 14, 2020, 03:45:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2020, 03:31:25 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 14, 2020, 03:24:13 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 14, 2020, 02:30:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 01:40:11 PMas no one thought it would spread like it did.

Are you for real?

Why do you think I was so exasperated in February?

Pardon (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1957669#msg1957669) me for understanding (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1957685#msg1957685) what a f**king exponential (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1957936#msg1957936) curve (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1958791#msg1958791) looks like.

[What I've posted here is extremely mild compared to what I've posted elsewhere.]


Government have f**ked up and their academic advisers just remind you of the saying - "Those who can, do. Those who can't, talk about it." Bunch of clowns living in theoretical dream-worlds without a pragmatic bone in their bodies.

In fairness to you Radio you were the most vocal AND most accurate about this whole scenario from the beginning.......

There were some people who were at best taking the piss out of what you were saying (I can think of two posters right away - am sure others know who they are) and at worst being completely condescending.

I hope you are wrong about everything else you have said........ :-\

Yep. Impressive stuff.
+2 It certainly helped myself on getting better informed on the topic
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2020, 03:48:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 14, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d7b9fd_cbbad88ec5d5448ebad49b053761c114~mv2.png)

Can't help but notice the Swedes missing from this with their interesting approach.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 14, 2020, 03:51:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 14, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d7b9fd_cbbad88ec5d5448ebad49b053761c114~mv2.png)
Netherlands, Belgium and Switzerland jump out at me there as they all seem to be getting it very bad at the minute regarding daily deaths. Though maybe they are deemed to be at more advanced stages in their respective epidemics. Likewise Ireland I would have thought would be higher, but again maybe they are not at as an advanced stage yet. I'm merely basing this view on the current deaths of each.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on April 14, 2020, 04:35:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 01:40:11 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 14, 2020, 01:20:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2020, 09:47:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2020, 09:39:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 13, 2020, 09:26:52 PM
There were stories doing the rounds in Italy and Spain that there were old peoples homes where the staff just legged it and the army had to come in. How true that is I don't know but you could well believe it

There is some truth to that. But staff in these places had little or no PPE, a lot of them came down with the virus and had to isolate, so things became increasingly impossible for those left. In most cases they didn't just leg it, but had been calling for help for many days. These types of homes are a real point of vulnerability and places that have kept the deaths down have had a plan for such places.

How could you plan for this? I never heard one expert on here discuss it other that the SARS, Bird flu and other virus attacks which were not global to this extent.

Unfortunately it takes something like this to change mindsets. Everyone,  every country it seems was caught out

There were plenty of people *on this thread* talking about early stage mitigation procedures which could and should have been have been put in place to minimise the effect of this on people.  Personally, I feel that the decisions taken by businesses and the GAA in the north were influenced by people of this ilk in the wider community and very definitely helped things by their early actions.

Experts *on this thread* were telling those people to shut up because they didn't like what they were hearing and "there's nothing we can do about it so we may as well just let it play out".

Those "experts" include you.   ::)

Take your hard on for me elsewhere, I'm not into that ;)

I'm talking about long before that. not a week or two into this, as no one thought it would spread like it did.

I put a thread up on experts, to gauge who would actually know what they were talking about rather than trailing things of Wiki or Google, letting things play out I'm nearly sure I said for Brexit after it was voted, its going to be a lot worse after this, but I'd that's the least of the economies worries.

But sure just keep rowing in behind my posts every so often ::)

You keep up spouting the nonsense, I'll keep rowing in.

As for the bit in bold.

L O L

There are none so blind....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 14, 2020, 04:39:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 14, 2020, 03:51:13 PM
Netherlands, Belgium and Switzerland jump out at me there as they all seem to be getting it very bad at the minute regarding daily deaths. Though maybe they are deemed to be at more advanced stages in their respective epidemics. Likewise Ireland I would have thought would be higher, but again maybe they are not at as an advanced stage yet. I'm merely basing this view on the current deaths of each.

Belgium now has more recorded deaths per capita than Italy. 
Switzerland has done a lot of testing and I suspect this is one important facto, but things like the number of beds etc might also be weighed in.
Ireland is now doing more testing, which should be encouraging.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 04:49:25 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 14, 2020, 04:35:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 01:40:11 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 14, 2020, 01:20:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2020, 09:47:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2020, 09:39:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 13, 2020, 09:26:52 PM
There were stories doing the rounds in Italy and Spain that there were old peoples homes where the staff just legged it and the army had to come in. How true that is I don't know but you could well believe it

There is some truth to that. But staff in these places had little or no PPE, a lot of them came down with the virus and had to isolate, so things became increasingly impossible for those left. In most cases they didn't just leg it, but had been calling for help for many days. These types of homes are a real point of vulnerability and places that have kept the deaths down have had a plan for such places.

How could you plan for this? I never heard one expert on here discuss it other that the SARS, Bird flu and other virus attacks which were not global to this extent.

Unfortunately it takes something like this to change mindsets. Everyone,  every country it seems was caught out

There were plenty of people *on this thread* talking about early stage mitigation procedures which could and should have been have been put in place to minimise the effect of this on people.  Personally, I feel that the decisions taken by businesses and the GAA in the north were influenced by people of this ilk in the wider community and very definitely helped things by their early actions.

Experts *on this thread* were telling those people to shut up because they didn't like what they were hearing and "there's nothing we can do about it so we may as well just let it play out".

Those "experts" include you.   ::)

Take your hard on for me elsewhere, I'm not into that ;)

I'm talking about long before that. not a week or two into this, as no one thought it would spread like it did.

I put a thread up on experts, to gauge who would actually know what they were talking about rather than trailing things of Wiki or Google, letting things play out I'm nearly sure I said for Brexit after it was voted, its going to be a lot worse after this, but I'd that's the least of the economies worries.

But sure just keep rowing in behind my posts every so often ::)

You keep up spouting the nonsense, I'll keep rowing in.

As for the bit in bold.

L O L

There are none so blind....

Whatever amuses you
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on April 14, 2020, 04:59:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 04:49:25 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 14, 2020, 04:35:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 01:40:11 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 14, 2020, 01:20:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2020, 09:47:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2020, 09:39:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 13, 2020, 09:26:52 PM
There were stories doing the rounds in Italy and Spain that there were old peoples homes where the staff just legged it and the army had to come in. How true that is I don't know but you could well believe it

There is some truth to that. But staff in these places had little or no PPE, a lot of them came down with the virus and had to isolate, so things became increasingly impossible for those left. In most cases they didn't just leg it, but had been calling for help for many days. These types of homes are a real point of vulnerability and places that have kept the deaths down have had a plan for such places.

How could you plan for this? I never heard one expert on here discuss it other that the SARS, Bird flu and other virus attacks which were not global to this extent.

Unfortunately it takes something like this to change mindsets. Everyone,  every country it seems was caught out

There were plenty of people *on this thread* talking about early stage mitigation procedures which could and should have been have been put in place to minimise the effect of this on people.  Personally, I feel that the decisions taken by businesses and the GAA in the north were influenced by people of this ilk in the wider community and very definitely helped things by their early actions.

Experts *on this thread* were telling those people to shut up because they didn't like what they were hearing and "there's nothing we can do about it so we may as well just let it play out".

Those "experts" include you.   ::)

Take your hard on for me elsewhere, I'm not into that ;)

I'm talking about long before that. not a week or two into this, as no one thought it would spread like it did.

I put a thread up on experts, to gauge who would actually know what they were talking about rather than trailing things of Wiki or Google, letting things play out I'm nearly sure I said for Brexit after it was voted, its going to be a lot worse after this, but I'd that's the least of the economies worries.

But sure just keep rowing in behind my posts every so often ::)

You keep up spouting the nonsense, I'll keep rowing in.

As for the bit in bold.

L O L

There are none so blind....

Whatever amuses you

Your posts are more funny strange than funny ha-ha if I'm honest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 05:07:21 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 14, 2020, 04:59:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 04:49:25 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 14, 2020, 04:35:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2020, 01:40:11 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 14, 2020, 01:20:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2020, 09:47:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2020, 09:39:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 13, 2020, 09:26:52 PM
There were stories doing the rounds in Italy and Spain that there were old peoples homes where the staff just legged it and the army had to come in. How true that is I don't know but you could well believe it

There is some truth to that. But staff in these places had little or no PPE, a lot of them came down with the virus and had to isolate, so things became increasingly impossible for those left. In most cases they didn't just leg it, but had been calling for help for many days. These types of homes are a real point of vulnerability and places that have kept the deaths down have had a plan for such places.

How could you plan for this? I never heard one expert on here discuss it other that the SARS, Bird flu and other virus attacks which were not global to this extent.

Unfortunately it takes something like this to change mindsets. Everyone,  every country it seems was caught out

There were plenty of people *on this thread* talking about early stage mitigation procedures which could and should have been have been put in place to minimise the effect of this on people.  Personally, I feel that the decisions taken by businesses and the GAA in the north were influenced by people of this ilk in the wider community and very definitely helped things by their early actions.

Experts *on this thread* were telling those people to shut up because they didn't like what they were hearing and "there's nothing we can do about it so we may as well just let it play out".

Those "experts" include you.   ::)

Take your hard on for me elsewhere, I'm not into that ;)

I'm talking about long before that. not a week or two into this, as no one thought it would spread like it did.

I put a thread up on experts, to gauge who would actually know what they were talking about rather than trailing things of Wiki or Google, letting things play out I'm nearly sure I said for Brexit after it was voted, its going to be a lot worse after this, but I'd that's the least of the economies worries.

But sure just keep rowing in behind my posts every so often ::)

You keep up spouting the nonsense, I'll keep rowing in.

As for the bit in bold.

L O L

There are none so blind....

Whatever amuses you

Your posts are more funny strange than funny ha-ha if I'm honest.

Whatever keeps you posting back then. stay safe and hope you get through it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 14, 2020, 08:04:55 PM
Its a bit disconcerting to see the media push politicians here and elsewhere about easing lockdowns.

The US in particular seem to be under the impression (as led from the media) that they are on top of things.

A plateau in cases is not the end. It can signify the beginning of the end, no more, no less.

After reaching peak, the lockdown needs to continue for several weeks after to drive the number of carriers right down. Otherwise it'll utterly explode again as soon as restrictions are eased.

Furthermore, even after driving the number of carriers down, then a massive push on testing and tracing - far beyond the current farce - is needed so any cases that do spring up are identified quickly, and potential carriers also quickly tested and further isolated if needs be.


I can already see the stupid media pushing stupid politicians into lifting too early, not being prepared and the whole thing spiralling again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2020, 08:19:58 PM
The US right wing media in particular is starting to amp up the calls for reopening and, indeed, starting to question why the lockdown was implemented in the first place.

A particularly idiotic piece by Dennis Praeger today, for example:
https://townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/2020/04/14/has-the-lockdown-worked-n2566857 (https://townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/2020/04/14/has-the-lockdown-worked-n2566857)

Hits all the usual marks, including the American right wing's disdain for "experts".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on April 14, 2020, 08:49:15 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 14, 2020, 08:04:55 PM
Its a bit disconcerting to see the media push politicians here and elsewhere about easing lockdowns.

The US in particular seem to be under the impression (as led from the media) that they are on top of things.

A plateau in cases is not the end. It can signify the beginning of the end, no more, no less.

After reaching peak, the lockdown needs to continue for several weeks after to drive the number of carriers right down. Otherwise it'll utterly explode again as soon as restrictions are eased.

Furthermore, even after driving the number of carriers down, then a massive push on testing and tracing - far beyond the current farce - is needed so any cases that do spring up are identified quickly, and potential carriers also quickly tested and further isolated if needs be.


I can already see the stupid media pushing stupid politicians into lifting too early, not being prepared and the whole thing spiralling again.

In the UK, the media and government seem to be one and the same, you'd almost think the government were loading the media with the questions.  UK government reaction to COVID19 is nothing short of shambolic and negligent, they've caused thousands of deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 14, 2020, 08:51:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 14, 2020, 08:19:58 PM
The US right wing media in particular is starting to amp up the calls for reopening and, indeed, starting to question why the lockdown was implemented in the first place.

A particularly idiotic piece by Dennis Praeger today, for example:
https://townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/2020/04/14/has-the-lockdown-worked-n2566857 (https://townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/2020/04/14/has-the-lockdown-worked-n2566857)

Hits all the usual marks, including the American right wing's disdain for "experts".
It will increase infections and cause an even bigger crash
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 14, 2020, 09:30:31 PM
NYC just added 3700 people to its death toll. Brings it to more than 10K in just the city. The extra people were never tested,  but are presumed to have died from it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/us/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/us/coronavirus-updates.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on April 15, 2020, 01:22:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2020, 03:48:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 14, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d7b9fd_cbbad88ec5d5448ebad49b053761c114~mv2.png)

Can't help but notice the Swedes missing from this with their interesting approach.
That list is nonsense. And it isn't a question of what is the best approach, more what you can do with a population who can act responsibly.
Fwiw, despite the Swedes being very slow to recommend self isolation for returnees to the country, very  slow to inform close knit immigrant communities in Stockholm  in their own language about the health info,  they are doing reasonably with their approach. Ireland are just next to to Swedan in the deaths per population table, doing quite poorly and struggling despite the martial law lock down approach.
Another country I mentioned was Iceland  https://www.covid.is/data (https://www.covid.is/data) who have a similar approach to Sweden, there is no lock down,  they have detected a high rate of infections per population but have managed to contain it without a lock down, their peak is well in the past, and they they're preparing for a controlled responsible normality in the next 2 weeks. No roll of the dice as some uninformed folks like to label it.

The data in Ireland is poor, there is no table numbering the recovered. How on earth can one measure the real progress if any,  if you can't compare the numbers of recovered  to the numbers of  live infected?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2020, 01:22:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2020, 03:48:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 14, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d7b9fd_cbbad88ec5d5448ebad49b053761c114~mv2.png)

Can't help but notice the Swedes missing from this with their interesting approach.
That list is nonsense. And it isn't a question of what is the best approach, more what you can do with a population who can act responsibly.
Fwiw, despite the Swedes being very slow to recommend self isolation for returnees to the country, very  slow to inform close knit immigrant communities in Stockholm  in their own language about the health info,  they are doing reasonably with their approach. Ireland are just next to to Swedan in the deaths per population table, doing quite poorly and struggling despite the martial law lock down approach.
Another country I mentioned was Iceland  https://www.covid.is/data (https://www.covid.is/data) who have a similar approach to Sweden, there is no lock down,  they have detected a high rate of infections per population but have managed to contain it without a lock down, their peak is well in the past, and they they're preparing for a controlled responsible normality in the next 2 weeks. No roll of the dice as some uninformed folks like to label it.

The data in Ireland is poor, there is no table numbering the recovered. How on earth can one measure the real progress if any,  if you can't compare the numbers of recovered  to the numbers of  live infected?

Recovery doesn't sell fear presumably.

I'm also still continuing to search for data on smokers with this disease from any country, but it's not forthcoming. Why?

No argument with the point in bold, perfectly fair question to ask.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 15, 2020, 09:20:57 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2020, 01:22:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2020, 03:48:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 14, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d7b9fd_cbbad88ec5d5448ebad49b053761c114~mv2.png)

Can't help but notice the Swedes missing from this with their interesting approach.
That list is nonsense. And it isn't a question of what is the best approach, more what you can do with a population who can act responsibly.
Fwiw, despite the Swedes being very slow to recommend self isolation for returnees to the country, very  slow to inform close knit immigrant communities in Stockholm  in their own language about the health info,  they are doing reasonably with their approach. Ireland are just next to to Swedan in the deaths per population table, doing quite poorly and struggling despite the martial law lock down approach.
Another country I mentioned was Iceland  https://www.covid.is/data (https://www.covid.is/data) who have a similar approach to Sweden, there is no lock down,  they have detected a high rate of infections per population but have managed to contain it without a lock down, their peak is well in the past, and they they're preparing for a controlled responsible normality in the next 2 weeks. No roll of the dice as some uninformed folks like to label it.

The data in Ireland is poor, there is no table numbering the recovered. How on earth can one measure the real progress if any,  if you can't compare the numbers of recovered  to the numbers of  live infected?

How can Sweden be doing well and Ireland poorly with almost identical figures? Is that because Sweden have bigger population? There is no way Belguim or Holland are doing better than Ireland. Also Iceland are going through the exact same restrctions as here, my close relative lives there. There has been a lot of crap in media about Iceland. They are testing a lot but most of the other stuff I have read is just plain untrue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 15, 2020, 09:24:44 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2020, 01:22:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2020, 03:48:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 14, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d7b9fd_cbbad88ec5d5448ebad49b053761c114~mv2.png)

Can't help but notice the Swedes missing from this with their interesting approach.
That list is nonsense. And it isn't a question of what is the best approach, more what you can do with a population who can act responsibly.
Fwiw, despite the Swedes being very slow to recommend self isolation for returnees to the country, very  slow to inform close knit immigrant communities in Stockholm  in their own language about the health info,  they are doing reasonably with their approach. Ireland are just next to to Swedan in the deaths per population table, doing quite poorly and struggling despite the martial law lock down approach.
Another country I mentioned was Iceland  https://www.covid.is/data (https://www.covid.is/data) who have a similar approach to Sweden, there is no lock down,  they have detected a high rate of infections per population but have managed to contain it without a lock down, their peak is well in the past, and they they're preparing for a controlled responsible normality in the next 2 weeks. No roll of the dice as some uninformed folks like to label it.

The data in Ireland is poor, there is no table numbering the recovered. How on earth can one measure the real progress if any,  if you can't compare the numbers of recovered  to the numbers of  live infected?

Recovery doesn't sell fear presumably.

I'm also still continuing to search for data on smokers with this disease from any country, but it's not forthcoming. Why?

No argument with the point in bold, perfectly fair question to ask.

The general consensus here in the North is that the data on gov.ie is good , very informative and updated regularly , compared to what we are getting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 15, 2020, 10:03:56 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2020, 01:22:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2020, 03:48:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 14, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d7b9fd_cbbad88ec5d5448ebad49b053761c114~mv2.png)

Can't help but notice the Swedes missing from this with their interesting approach.
That list is nonsense. And it isn't a question of what is the best approach, more what you can do with a population who can act responsibly.
Fwiw, despite the Swedes being very slow to recommend self isolation for returnees to the country, very  slow to inform close knit immigrant communities in Stockholm  in their own language about the health info,  they are doing reasonably with their approach. Ireland are just next to to Swedan in the deaths per population table, doing quite poorly and struggling despite the martial law lock down approach.
Another country I mentioned was Iceland  https://www.covid.is/data (https://www.covid.is/data) who have a similar approach to Sweden, there is no lock down,  they have detected a high rate of infections per population but have managed to contain it without a lock down, their peak is well in the past, and they they're preparing for a controlled responsible normality in the next 2 weeks. No roll of the dice as some uninformed folks like to label it.

The data in Ireland is poor, there is no table numbering the recovered. How on earth can one measure the real progress if any,  if you can't compare the numbers of recovered  to the numbers of  live infected?

Spot on &  table looks like someone pulled it out of their arse, it means nothing. In 18 months time we can review data from respective countries and generate a table showing real performance.
Regarding Irelands performance even with a full lockdown the figures are poor, the handling of nursing homes was shocking with people double jobing, 20k Irish over to Cheltenham without warning of the potential risks or banning of flights, Dublin airport - complete lack of information, cleaning procedures & no hand santizer. But sure we are doing better than the UK & Boris Johnson is a fool.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 15, 2020, 10:08:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 15, 2020, 09:24:44 AM
The general consensus here in the North is that the data on gov.ie is good , very informative and updated regularly , compared to what we are getting.

It's all relative though :(

Who has the least misinformation.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 15, 2020, 10:11:01 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 15, 2020, 10:08:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 15, 2020, 09:24:44 AM
The general consensus here in the North is that the data on gov.ie is good , very informative and updated regularly , compared to what we are getting.

It's all relative though :(

Who has the least misinformation.

True to a point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 15, 2020, 10:18:14 AM
What do we think of Trump's decision to withdraw funding from WHO? I'm not a fan by any stretch but I think he is right in regards to his criticism. They've been caught with their pants down. Trusting China in the first place was a big no no and I think Japan and Taiwan smelt a rat straight away. Them seem to be a bureaucratic body which has probably got great intentions but a bundle of amateurs at the helm.

For all of Trumps failings he has got the number of a lot of these international organisations that seem to be very poor value for money.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 10:21:08 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2020, 10:18:14 AM
What do we think of Trump's decision to withdraw funding from WHO? I'm not a fan by any stretch but I think he is right in regards to his criticism. They've been caught with their pants down. Trusting China in the first place was a big no no and I think Japan and Taiwan smelt a rat straight away. Them seem to be a bureaucratic body which has probably got great intentions but a bundle of amateurs at the helm.

For all of Trumps failings he has got the number of a lot of these international organisations that seem to be very poor value for money.

It's maybe more like it's hard to con, a con man.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: MayoBuck on April 15, 2020, 10:36:16 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2020, 01:22:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2020, 03:48:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 14, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d7b9fd_cbbad88ec5d5448ebad49b053761c114~mv2.png)

Can't help but notice the Swedes missing from this with their interesting approach.
That list is nonsense. And it isn't a question of what is the best approach, more what you can do with a population who can act responsibly.
Fwiw, despite the Swedes being very slow to recommend self isolation for returnees to the country, very  slow to inform close knit immigrant communities in Stockholm  in their own language about the health info,  they are doing reasonably with their approach. Ireland are just next to to Swedan in the deaths per population table, doing quite poorly and struggling despite the martial law lock down approach.
Another country I mentioned was Iceland  https://www.covid.is/data (https://www.covid.is/data) who have a similar approach to Sweden, there is no lock down,  they have detected a high rate of infections per population but have managed to contain it without a lock down, their peak is well in the past, and they they're preparing for a controlled responsible normality in the next 2 weeks. No roll of the dice as some uninformed folks like to label it.

The data in Ireland is poor, there is no table numbering the recovered. How on earth can one measure the real progress if any,  if you can't compare the numbers of recovered  to the numbers of  live infected?

Recovery doesn't sell fear presumably.

I'm also still continuing to search for data on smokers with this disease from any country, but it's not forthcoming. Why?

No argument with the point in bold, perfectly fair question to ask.

We have a limited testing capacity so can't retest everyone to prove they recovered. The number of people being released from ICU is published however.

I heard yesterday they're low on swabs in the Mayo test centres and will only be testing health care workers for the next few days at least.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 15, 2020, 10:46:08 AM
Quote from: MayoBuck on April 15, 2020, 10:36:16 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2020, 01:22:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2020, 03:48:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 14, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d7b9fd_cbbad88ec5d5448ebad49b053761c114~mv2.png)

Can't help but notice the Swedes missing from this with their interesting approach.
That list is nonsense. And it isn't a question of what is the best approach, more what you can do with a population who can act responsibly.
Fwiw, despite the Swedes being very slow to recommend self isolation for returnees to the country, very  slow to inform close knit immigrant communities in Stockholm  in their own language about the health info,  they are doing reasonably with their approach. Ireland are just next to to Swedan in the deaths per population table, doing quite poorly and struggling despite the martial law lock down approach.
Another country I mentioned was Iceland  https://www.covid.is/data (https://www.covid.is/data) who have a similar approach to Sweden, there is no lock down,  they have detected a high rate of infections per population but have managed to contain it without a lock down, their peak is well in the past, and they they're preparing for a controlled responsible normality in the next 2 weeks. No roll of the dice as some uninformed folks like to label it.

The data in Ireland is poor, there is no table numbering the recovered. How on earth can one measure the real progress if any,  if you can't compare the numbers of recovered  to the numbers of  live infected?

Recovery doesn't sell fear presumably.

I'm also still continuing to search for data on smokers with this disease from any country, but it's not forthcoming. Why?

No argument with the point in bold, perfectly fair question to ask.

We have a limited testing capacity so can't retest everyone to prove they recovered. The number of people being released from ICU is published however.

I heard yesterday they're low on swabs in the Mayo test centres and will only be testing health care workers for the next few days at least.

This is another example of the WHO's failed strategy. Test! Test! Test!. When there isn't enough PPE, Swabs, testing kits, lab capacity. Their strategy should surely be based around what can be delivered? Developed nations haven't enough of this gear never mind other less developed nations. It really appears to be clown o'clock with these guys.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 15, 2020, 10:57:37 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2020, 10:46:08 AM
Quote from: MayoBuck on April 15, 2020, 10:36:16 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2020, 01:22:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2020, 03:48:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 14, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d7b9fd_cbbad88ec5d5448ebad49b053761c114~mv2.png)

Can't help but notice the Swedes missing from this with their interesting approach.
That list is nonsense. And it isn't a question of what is the best approach, more what you can do with a population who can act responsibly.
Fwiw, despite the Swedes being very slow to recommend self isolation for returnees to the country, very  slow to inform close knit immigrant communities in Stockholm  in their own language about the health info,  they are doing reasonably with their approach. Ireland are just next to to Swedan in the deaths per population table, doing quite poorly and struggling despite the martial law lock down approach.
Another country I mentioned was Iceland  https://www.covid.is/data (https://www.covid.is/data) who have a similar approach to Sweden, there is no lock down,  they have detected a high rate of infections per population but have managed to contain it without a lock down, their peak is well in the past, and they they're preparing for a controlled responsible normality in the next 2 weeks. No roll of the dice as some uninformed folks like to label it.

The data in Ireland is poor, there is no table numbering the recovered. How on earth can one measure the real progress if any,  if you can't compare the numbers of recovered  to the numbers of  live infected?

Recovery doesn't sell fear presumably.

I'm also still continuing to search for data on smokers with this disease from any country, but it's not forthcoming. Why?

No argument with the point in bold, perfectly fair question to ask.

We have a limited testing capacity so can't retest everyone to prove they recovered. The number of people being released from ICU is published however.

I heard yesterday they're low on swabs in the Mayo test centres and will only be testing health care workers for the next few days at least.

This is another example of the WHO's failed strategy. Test! Test! Test!. When there isn't enough PPE, Swabs, testing kits, lab capacity. Their strategy should surely be based around what can be delivered? Developed nations haven't enough of this gear never mind other less developed nations. It really appears to be clown o'clock with these guys.

You expect the WHO to understand the supply chain around all elements of PPE? They layout what is needed, governments need to make it happen. How can Conor McGregor buy PPE and the HSE cant?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 15, 2020, 11:02:48 AM
No, your right trailer, test, test, test isn't the answer as the Germans will attest with a similar population to the UK but a fraction of the deaths.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-defences-i/pass-the-salt-the-minute-details-that-helped-germany-build-virus-defences-idUKKCN21R1DB (https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-defences-i/pass-the-salt-the-minute-details-that-helped-germany-build-virus-defences-idUKKCN21R1DB)

The WHO aren't to blame for the ineptitude in the UK or US for that matter as the UK in particular was doing (or not doing) it's own thing much to the exasperation of the WHO.

There's going to be a shit fest in the UK after this and you can see snippets of some covering their holes already. When Hancock and the likes talk about following the science then you know that down the line the fingers will be pointed at these CMO's, CSO's who almost certainly have a part of blame to take but the decisions made not to bring in the lockdown sooner was based on the economy and not health.

The UK Government seems to be full of talking heads churning out the same tired old mantra, following the science, ramping up, flattening the curve, blah, blah, blah. They're so same, same in a bland sort of way that one is interchangeable with another that no one would notice the difference.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 11:11:19 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 15, 2020, 11:02:48 AM
No, your right trailer, test, test, test isn't the answer as the Germans will attest with a similar population to the UK but a fraction of the deaths.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-defences-i/pass-the-salt-the-minute-details-that-helped-germany-build-virus-defences-idUKKCN21R1DB (https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-defences-i/pass-the-salt-the-minute-details-that-helped-germany-build-virus-defences-idUKKCN21R1DB)

The WHO aren't to blame for the ineptitude in the UK or US for that matter as the UK in particular was doing (or not doing) it's own thing much to the exasperation of the WHO.

There's going to be a shit fest in the UK after this and you can see snippets of some covering their holes already. When Hancock and the likes talk about following the science then you know that down the line the fingers will be pointed at these CMO's, CSO's who almost certainly have a part of blame to take but the decisions made not to bring in the lockdown sooner was based on the economy and not health.

The UK Government seems to be full of talking heads churning out the same tired old mantra, following the science, ramping up, flattening the curve, blah, blah, blah. They're so same, same in a bland sort of way that one is interchangeable with another that no one would notice the difference.

The Germans have much, much better healthcare. Nearly sure someone posted a chart here recently with their ICU figures that were vastly superior to most of Europe, in fairness.

The UK has been cutting costs on the NHS for years. Wasn't that long ago they were turning down payrises and now we are told to protect the NHS. Beggars belief really. Every Govt basically adapted a "we'll be gone when it comes home to roost" approach. Boris Johnson is taking a kicking on this thread but the real causation is the many, many previous Governments of the UK.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 15, 2020, 11:20:48 AM
If only the GAAboarders were in charge of Irish, British and World Health...........
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 15, 2020, 11:21:15 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 11:11:19 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 15, 2020, 11:02:48 AM
No, your right trailer, test, test, test isn't the answer as the Germans will attest with a similar population to the UK but a fraction of the deaths.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-defences-i/pass-the-salt-the-minute-details-that-helped-germany-build-virus-defences-idUKKCN21R1DB (https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-defences-i/pass-the-salt-the-minute-details-that-helped-germany-build-virus-defences-idUKKCN21R1DB)

The WHO aren't to blame for the ineptitude in the UK or US for that matter as the UK in particular was doing (or not doing) it's own thing much to the exasperation of the WHO.

There's going to be a shit fest in the UK after this and you can see snippets of some covering their holes already. When Hancock and the likes talk about following the science then you know that down the line the fingers will be pointed at these CMO's, CSO's who almost certainly have a part of blame to take but the decisions made not to bring in the lockdown sooner was based on the economy and not health.

The UK Government seems to be full of talking heads churning out the same tired old mantra, following the science, ramping up, flattening the curve, blah, blah, blah. They're so same, same in a bland sort of way that one is interchangeable with another that no one would notice the difference.

The Germans have much, much better healthcare. Nearly sure someone posted a chart here recently with their ICU figures that were vastly superior to most of Europe, in fairness.

The UK has been cutting costs on the NHS for years. Wasn't that long ago they were turning down payrises and now we are told to protect the NHS. Beggars belief really. Every Govt basically adapted a "we'll be gone when it comes home to roost" approach. Boris Johnson is taking a kicking on this thread but the real causation is the many, many previous Tory Governments of the UK.

fixed that for you.

Is the current Tory Government to take some of the blame for the previous Tory Governments of Cameron and May, but Cameron/Osbourne mostly who cut the shít out of NHS and local Government spending then that should be a yes as a lot of them were in Parliament over a lot of that duration and indeed were voting on these cuts and not paying the NHS staff a decent wage in recent years...

It's a very big yes from me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 11:27:05 AM
A decent wage for the NHS staff wouldn't have helped this though..well, perhaps more people may have taken to the profession in the meantime boosting staffing numbers I suppose but it's just a complete lack of investment all round and it's now been shown in the most clinical way.

When the coronavirus blitz passes and life begins to return to somewhat normal, (hopefully). The NHS will be booted from pillar to post again. It seems like it's the handest thing to strip to bare bones.....luckily they have been working and spending on a replacement for the Trident Nuclear Warhead in the meantime to teach this pesky virus a lesson soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 15, 2020, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 15, 2020, 11:21:15 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 11:11:19 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 15, 2020, 11:02:48 AM
No, your right trailer, test, test, test isn't the answer as the Germans will attest with a similar population to the UK but a fraction of the deaths.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-defences-i/pass-the-salt-the-minute-details-that-helped-germany-build-virus-defences-idUKKCN21R1DB (https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-defences-i/pass-the-salt-the-minute-details-that-helped-germany-build-virus-defences-idUKKCN21R1DB)

The WHO aren't to blame for the ineptitude in the UK or US for that matter as the UK in particular was doing (or not doing) it's own thing much to the exasperation of the WHO.

There's going to be a shit fest in the UK after this and you can see snippets of some covering their holes already. When Hancock and the likes talk about following the science then you know that down the line the fingers will be pointed at these CMO's, CSO's who almost certainly have a part of blame to take but the decisions made not to bring in the lockdown sooner was based on the economy and not health.

The UK Government seems to be full of talking heads churning out the same tired old mantra, following the science, ramping up, flattening the curve, blah, blah, blah. They're so same, same in a bland sort of way that one is interchangeable with another that no one would notice the difference.

The Germans have much, much better healthcare. Nearly sure someone posted a chart here recently with their ICU figures that were vastly superior to most of Europe, in fairness.

The UK has been cutting costs on the NHS for years. Wasn't that long ago they were turning down payrises and now we are told to protect the NHS. Beggars belief really. Every Govt basically adapted a "we'll be gone when it comes home to roost" approach. Boris Johnson is taking a kicking on this thread but the real causation is the many, many previous Tory Governments of the UK.

fixed that for you.

Is the current Tory Government to take some of the blame for the previous Tory Governments of Cameron and May, but Cameron/Osbourne mostly who cut the shít out of NHS and local Government spending then that should be a yes as a lot of them were in Parliament over a lot of that duration and indeed were voting on these cuts and not paying the NHS staff a decent wage in recent years...

It's a very big yes from me.

Not at all, its all the Shinners fault - they have been in government in Stormont.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 15, 2020, 12:22:12 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 11:27:05 AM
A decent wage for the NHS staff wouldn't have helped this though..well, perhaps more people may have taken to the profession in the meantime boosting staffing numbers I suppose but it's just a complete lack of investment all round and it's now been shown in the most clinical way.

When the coronavirus blitz passes and life begins to return to somewhat normal, (hopefully). The NHS will be booted from pillar to post again. It seems like it's the handest thing to strip to bare bones.....luckily they have been working and spending on a replacement for the Trident Nuclear Warhead in the meantime to teach this pesky virus a lesson soon.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/01/conservatives-underfunding-nhs-made-crisis-inevitable

Before last November's Budget, health leaders warned that this fiscal famine could not endure. Simon Stevens, the NHS chief executive, requested a minimum increase of £4bn in 2018 (far below the £18.2bn - or £350m a week - promised by the Leave campaign). "2018, which happens to be the 70th anniversary of the NHS, is poised to be the toughest financial year," Stevens warned. After nearly a decade of austerity, he noted, Britain was underfunding the health service by £20-30bn compared to comparable countries such as Germany, France and Sweden. 

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on April 15, 2020, 12:23:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 15, 2020, 12:22:12 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 11:27:05 AM
A decent wage for the NHS staff wouldn't have helped this though..well, perhaps more people may have taken to the profession in the meantime boosting staffing numbers I suppose but it's just a complete lack of investment all round and it's now been shown in the most clinical way.

When the coronavirus blitz passes and life begins to return to somewhat normal, (hopefully). The NHS will be booted from pillar to post again. It seems like it's the handest thing to strip to bare bones.....luckily they have been working and spending on a replacement for the Trident Nuclear Warhead in the meantime to teach this pesky virus a lesson soon.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/01/conservatives-underfunding-nhs-made-crisis-inevitable

Before last November's Budget, health leaders warned that this fiscal famine could not endure. Simon Stevens, the NHS chief executive, requested a minimum increase of £4bn in 2018 (far below the £18.2bn - or £350m a week - promised by the Leave campaign). "2018, which happens to be the 70th anniversary of the NHS, is poised to be the toughest financial year," Stevens warned. After nearly a decade of austerity, he noted, Britain was underfunding the health service by £20-30bn compared to comparable countries such as Germany, France and Sweden.

Comparing apples and oranges, in Germany's case anyway. Funded totally differently
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 12:24:04 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 11:27:05 AM
A decent wage for the NHS staff wouldn't have helped this though..

You do realise because of the crap wages paid many folks leave the NHS as quickly as possible, join subcontracting firms and then end up working for the NHS on a vastly increased wage - which is also reflected on the cost the NHS must pay that subcontracting firm for that individual's time?

Same hours worked at far more cost.

2018:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/13/nurseshortages-cost-nhs-24-billion-last-year/

... and thats in the telegraph! Which is as right leaning Tory supporting as you are likely to find outside the Daily Heil - so the real figures are likely far worse.


For instance, the Guardian in 2014:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/01/nhs-spending-agency-nurses-cuts

and things aren't likely to have improved from 2014 to 2018.


Outside of costs, some of the main things they could do is:
> Consultants in the NHS are exclusively contracted, so they cannot double job for a private health care provider.
> NHS facilities can only be used for NHS operations.
> Treble, even quadruple the number of doctors that are put through medical schools. Tell the BMA to do one when they complain.

Far too often, operations that simply cannot be done on the NHS can magically be fitted in privately, despite using largely the same people in the same operating theatre. Why is that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 12:43:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 12:24:04 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 11:27:05 AM
A decent wage for the NHS staff wouldn't have helped this though..

You do realise because of the crap wages paid many folks leave the NHS as quickly as possible, join subcontracting firms and then end up working for the NHS on a vastly increased wage - which is also reflected on the cost the NHS must pay that subcontracting firm for that individual's time?

Same hours worked at far more cost.

2018:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/13/nurseshortages-cost-nhs-24-billion-last-year/

... and thats in the telegraph! Which is as right leaning Tory supporting as you are likely to find outside the Daily Heil - so the real figures are likely far worse.


For instance, the Guardian in 2014:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/01/nhs-spending-agency-nurses-cuts

and things aren't likely to have improved from 2014 to 2018.


Outside of costs, some of the main things they could do is:
> Consultants in the NHS are exclusively contracted, so they cannot double job for a private health care provider.
> NHS facilities can only be used for NHS operations.
> Treble, even quadruple the number of doctors that are put through medical schools. Tell the BMA to do one when they complain.

Far too often, operations that simply cannot be done on the NHS can magically be fitted in privately, despite using largely the same people in the same operating theatre. Why is that?

All fair valid points, but if this pandemic had not hit. Would anyone care? That has been the root problem with the NHS basically since it's inception.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on April 15, 2020, 01:26:57 PM
NHS could certainly do with more funding but would it automatically equate to better results ? There is some amount of waste in the NHS.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 01:51:15 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 15, 2020, 01:26:57 PM
NHS could certainly do with more funding but would it automatically equate to better results ? There is some amount of waste in the NHS.

In the face of this particular issue? I suppose if you don't know what you are fighting to begin with it didn't really matter. Perhaps there could have been better care and time given to some who may well have been saved - we've all heard stories about full wards etc.... I don't know too much about the ins and outs of the NHS to be perfectly honest bar my own and other I know experiences.

Like I said a long time ago in this thread and my mind hasn't really changed - this virus is proving extremely efficient at purging the already weak and those most at danger. I do not mean that in a cold, callous way. Of course it's since been proven that it can get to all ages but by and large it's particularly ruthless to those who are most in need of care. Would a better funded NHS save this already at risk category?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 02:14:33 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 01:51:15 PM
Would a better funded NHS save this already at risk category?

That is a very easy answer.

Yes.

https://www.hsj.co.uk/news/nhs-told-to-up-its-game-in-helping-social-care-respond-to-crisis/7027193.article

QuoteA senior director at a London acute trust, who asked not to be named, told HSJ: "There's a real problem with private care homes refusing to take patients back unless they've been tested for covid-19. But [testing] is not the national guidance currently and there just aren't enough testing kits to do it.

"I'm now on calls with commissioners about getting more people out of hospital and into the community, and they're saying 'yes, that'll be done in the next week', and I'm on the verge of screaming at them."

Another acute sector director in the north west of England said: "We need care homes to be really robust. We've been hearing from colleagues that nursing homes won't accept their residents back after they've been discharged from hospital, unless they've been fully swabbed [tested] for coronavirus. This is not the national guidance, and we aren't able to do that right now. This could cause a huge issue."

Paul Brant, Cabinet member for adult health and social care for Liverpool City Council, said: "Some care homes have stopped taking new admissions as they are worried about bringing infected people into [the] home. They feel they have a moral obligation to existing residents and [are] concerned that they would be putting them at risk."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 15, 2020, 02:19:09 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 15, 2020, 01:26:57 PM
NHS could certainly do with more funding but would it automatically equate to better results ? There is some amount of waste in the NHS.

https://www.ft.com/content/5b97eb8c-7a9b-4f4a-8159-9d35b5e7a310
Adding to the strain between the DUP and Sinn Féin is the fact that Northern Ireland's health service has been chronically underfunded for years, resulting in the longest patient waiting times for hospital treatment in the UK.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on April 15, 2020, 02:47:00 PM
Pretty sure Seafoid is a bot
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 15, 2020, 02:56:54 PM
Today reached the 2 million mark in reported cases, the first million took 3 month to reach.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 15, 2020, 03:33:18 PM
Another way of looking at things


https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/golf/golf-clubs-could-reopen-relatively-safely-says-prof-sam-mcconkey-1.4228939

"If everyone listened to me I'd be going: 'let's copy the New Zealand approach'. My suggestion is a bubble of seven million people on the island of Ireland.
"The reason we cannot be as stringent as New Zealand is the good people of Northern Ireland do not agree with each other, they have not agreed with each other for 100 years and they do not agree with us. So there is a political problem.
"For many, many decades smarter people than you and I have failed on that one. There have been Nobel prizes won and lost by people trying to solve that problem, and still they are not agreeing with each other. Robin Swann and Michelle O'Neill are still fighting [over British army assistance in NI] despite being in the same cabinet.
"That's why we are not doing what New Zealand are doing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 15, 2020, 03:50:55 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 15, 2020, 10:57:37 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2020, 10:46:08 AM
Quote from: MayoBuck on April 15, 2020, 10:36:16 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2020, 01:22:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2020, 03:48:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 14, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d7b9fd_cbbad88ec5d5448ebad49b053761c114~mv2.png)

Can't help but notice the Swedes missing from this with their interesting approach.
That list is nonsense. And it isn't a question of what is the best approach, more what you can do with a population who can act responsibly.
Fwiw, despite the Swedes being very slow to recommend self isolation for returnees to the country, very  slow to inform close knit immigrant communities in Stockholm  in their own language about the health info,  they are doing reasonably with their approach. Ireland are just next to to Swedan in the deaths per population table, doing quite poorly and struggling despite the martial law lock down approach.
Another country I mentioned was Iceland  https://www.covid.is/data (https://www.covid.is/data) who have a similar approach to Sweden, there is no lock down,  they have detected a high rate of infections per population but have managed to contain it without a lock down, their peak is well in the past, and they they're preparing for a controlled responsible normality in the next 2 weeks. No roll of the dice as some uninformed folks like to label it.

The data in Ireland is poor, there is no table numbering the recovered. How on earth can one measure the real progress if any,  if you can't compare the numbers of recovered  to the numbers of  live infected?

Recovery doesn't sell fear presumably.

I'm also still continuing to search for data on smokers with this disease from any country, but it's not forthcoming. Why?

No argument with the point in bold, perfectly fair question to ask.

We have a limited testing capacity so can't retest everyone to prove they recovered. The number of people being released from ICU is published however.

I heard yesterday they're low on swabs in the Mayo test centres and will only be testing health care workers for the next few days at least.

This is another example of the WHO's failed strategy. Test! Test! Test!. When there isn't enough PPE, Swabs, testing kits, lab capacity. Their strategy should surely be based around what can be delivered? Developed nations haven't enough of this gear never mind other less developed nations. It really appears to be clown o'clock with these guys.

You expect the WHO to understand the supply chain around all elements of PPE? They layout what is needed, governments need to make it happen. How can Conor McGregor buy PPE and the HSE cant?

I expect them to do their f**king job. At this moment in time they aren't .They're failing miserably and yet they get millions every year. Testing for the disease now at this stage would appear pointless. Testing and isolating should've been the advice in Jan. Screening travellers, closing borders etc. Now the virus is everywhere. In all corners of the world. The only tests that now matter is the test to see if you've had the virus. That's the focus. Everything else is window dressing. WHO would be better focusing its energy on sorting out it's early warning systems and reorganising internally. Telling countries what to do now makes them look like clowns, especially when the advice is to simply test.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 03:51:53 PM
The NZ approach was proposed here long before NZ implemented their measures. Was a complete no go from the start and indeed it took people to pull the plug on air travel, not the other way around.

But we seriously need to talk about it going forward, whatever the political situation of it all. Ireland has a Geographical advantage in something like this that is vital and there will be another outbreak, beit a second wave they talk of - or something else....but I wouldn't hold my breath on it either.

In theory there is no reason why Ireland couldn't do what NZ did. In practice, that's a mess altogether - you would think something like this would take the ballache out of politics in the North, but yet....here we are.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 15, 2020, 04:04:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2020, 03:50:55 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 15, 2020, 10:57:37 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2020, 10:46:08 AM
Quote from: MayoBuck on April 15, 2020, 10:36:16 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2020, 01:22:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2020, 03:48:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 14, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d7b9fd_cbbad88ec5d5448ebad49b053761c114~mv2.png)

Can't help but notice the Swedes missing from this with their interesting approach.
That list is nonsense. And it isn't a question of what is the best approach, more what you can do with a population who can act responsibly.
Fwiw, despite the Swedes being very slow to recommend self isolation for returnees to the country, very  slow to inform close knit immigrant communities in Stockholm  in their own language about the health info,  they are doing reasonably with their approach. Ireland are just next to to Swedan in the deaths per population table, doing quite poorly and struggling despite the martial law lock down approach.
Another country I mentioned was Iceland  https://www.covid.is/data (https://www.covid.is/data) who have a similar approach to Sweden, there is no lock down,  they have detected a high rate of infections per population but have managed to contain it without a lock down, their peak is well in the past, and they they're preparing for a controlled responsible normality in the next 2 weeks. No roll of the dice as some uninformed folks like to label it.

The data in Ireland is poor, there is no table numbering the recovered. How on earth can one measure the real progress if any,  if you can't compare the numbers of recovered  to the numbers of  live infected?

Recovery doesn't sell fear presumably.

I'm also still continuing to search for data on smokers with this disease from any country, but it's not forthcoming. Why?

No argument with the point in bold, perfectly fair question to ask.

We have a limited testing capacity so can't retest everyone to prove they recovered. The number of people being released from ICU is published however.

I heard yesterday they're low on swabs in the Mayo test centres and will only be testing health care workers for the next few days at least.

This is another example of the WHO's failed strategy. Test! Test! Test!. When there isn't enough PPE, Swabs, testing kits, lab capacity. Their strategy should surely be based around what can be delivered? Developed nations haven't enough of this gear never mind other less developed nations. It really appears to be clown o'clock with these guys.

You expect the WHO to understand the supply chain around all elements of PPE? They layout what is needed, governments need to make it happen. How can Conor McGregor buy PPE and the HSE cant?

I expect them to do their f**king job. At this moment in time they aren't .They're failing miserably and yet they get millions every year. Testing for the disease now at this stage would appear pointless. Testing and isolating should've been the advice in Jan. Screening travellers, closing borders etc. Now the virus is everywhere. In all corners of the world. The only tests that now matter is the test to see if you've had the virus. That's the focus. Everything else is window dressing. WHO would be better focusing its energy on sorting out it's early warning systems and reorganising internally. Telling countries what to do now makes them look like clowns, especially when the advice is to simply test.
Seriously? That is a ridiculous statement. The more positive cases you can identify the quicker you can isolate them and stop them spreading it. I can't believe this has to be explained at this stage. Id be taking your "in-depth" criticism of WHO with a pinch of salt.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 15, 2020, 04:28:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 15, 2020, 04:04:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2020, 03:50:55 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 15, 2020, 10:57:37 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2020, 10:46:08 AM
Quote from: MayoBuck on April 15, 2020, 10:36:16 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2020, 01:22:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2020, 03:48:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 14, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d7b9fd_cbbad88ec5d5448ebad49b053761c114~mv2.png)

Can't help but notice the Swedes missing from this with their interesting approach.
That list is nonsense. And it isn't a question of what is the best approach, more what you can do with a population who can act responsibly.
Fwiw, despite the Swedes being very slow to recommend self isolation for returnees to the country, very  slow to inform close knit immigrant communities in Stockholm  in their own language about the health info,  they are doing reasonably with their approach. Ireland are just next to to Swedan in the deaths per population table, doing quite poorly and struggling despite the martial law lock down approach.
Another country I mentioned was Iceland  https://www.covid.is/data (https://www.covid.is/data) who have a similar approach to Sweden, there is no lock down,  they have detected a high rate of infections per population but have managed to contain it without a lock down, their peak is well in the past, and they they're preparing for a controlled responsible normality in the next 2 weeks. No roll of the dice as some uninformed folks like to label it.

The data in Ireland is poor, there is no table numbering the recovered. How on earth can one measure the real progress if any,  if you can't compare the numbers of recovered  to the numbers of  live infected?

Recovery doesn't sell fear presumably.

I'm also still continuing to search for data on smokers with this disease from any country, but it's not forthcoming. Why?

No argument with the point in bold, perfectly fair question to ask.

We have a limited testing capacity so can't retest everyone to prove they recovered. The number of people being released from ICU is published however.

I heard yesterday they're low on swabs in the Mayo test centres and will only be testing health care workers for the next few days at least.

This is another example of the WHO's failed strategy. Test! Test! Test!. When there isn't enough PPE, Swabs, testing kits, lab capacity. Their strategy should surely be based around what can be delivered? Developed nations haven't enough of this gear never mind other less developed nations. It really appears to be clown o'clock with these guys.

You expect the WHO to understand the supply chain around all elements of PPE? They layout what is needed, governments need to make it happen. How can Conor McGregor buy PPE and the HSE cant?

I expect them to do their f**king job. At this moment in time they aren't .They're failing miserably and yet they get millions every year. Testing for the disease now at this stage would appear pointless. Testing and isolating should've been the advice in Jan. Screening travellers, closing borders etc. Now the virus is everywhere. In all corners of the world. The only tests that now matter is the test to see if you've had the virus. That's the focus. Everything else is window dressing. WHO would be better focusing its energy on sorting out it's early warning systems and reorganising internally. Telling countries what to do now makes them look like clowns, especially when the advice is to simply test.
Seriously? That is a ridiculous statement. The more positive cases you can identify the quicker you can isolate them and stop them spreading it. I can't believe this has to be explained at this stage. Id be taking your "in-depth" criticism of WHO with a pinch of salt.

Yes. But we can't test for positive cases and therefore we can't isolate them. We're past that stage for God's sake. Long past it. The WHO should've been telling us to do that in Jan instead of telling us everything was fine and the Chinese were on top of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 04:35:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2020, 03:50:55 PMTesting for the disease now at this stage would appear pointless

Yes...

I can see no value whatsoever in knowing if:
- people working in supermarkets have the virus
- people working in food handling have the virus
- people working in non-COVID hospital wards have the virus
- people working in care homes have the virus
- people providing home help have the virus
- people providing care to vulnerable family members have the virus


[/s]  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 15, 2020, 04:39:46 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2020, 04:28:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 15, 2020, 04:04:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2020, 03:50:55 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 15, 2020, 10:57:37 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2020, 10:46:08 AM
Quote from: MayoBuck on April 15, 2020, 10:36:16 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2020, 01:22:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2020, 03:48:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 14, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d7b9fd_cbbad88ec5d5448ebad49b053761c114~mv2.png)

Can't help but notice the Swedes missing from this with their interesting approach.
That list is nonsense. And it isn't a question of what is the best approach, more what you can do with a population who can act responsibly.
Fwiw, despite the Swedes being very slow to recommend self isolation for returnees to the country, very  slow to inform close knit immigrant communities in Stockholm  in their own language about the health info,  they are doing reasonably with their approach. Ireland are just next to to Swedan in the deaths per population table, doing quite poorly and struggling despite the martial law lock down approach.
Another country I mentioned was Iceland  https://www.covid.is/data (https://www.covid.is/data) who have a similar approach to Sweden, there is no lock down,  they have detected a high rate of infections per population but have managed to contain it without a lock down, their peak is well in the past, and they they're preparing for a controlled responsible normality in the next 2 weeks. No roll of the dice as some uninformed folks like to label it.

The data in Ireland is poor, there is no table numbering the recovered. How on earth can one measure the real progress if any,  if you can't compare the numbers of recovered  to the numbers of  live infected?

Recovery doesn't sell fear presumably.

I'm also still continuing to search for data on smokers with this disease from any country, but it's not forthcoming. Why?

No argument with the point in bold, perfectly fair question to ask.

We have a limited testing capacity so can't retest everyone to prove they recovered. The number of people being released from ICU is published however.

I heard yesterday they're low on swabs in the Mayo test centres and will only be testing health care workers for the next few days at least.

This is another example of the WHO's failed strategy. Test! Test! Test!. When there isn't enough PPE, Swabs, testing kits, lab capacity. Their strategy should surely be based around what can be delivered? Developed nations haven't enough of this gear never mind other less developed nations. It really appears to be clown o'clock with these guys.

You expect the WHO to understand the supply chain around all elements of PPE? They layout what is needed, governments need to make it happen. How can Conor McGregor buy PPE and the HSE cant?

I expect them to do their f**king job. At this moment in time they aren't .They're failing miserably and yet they get millions every year. Testing for the disease now at this stage would appear pointless. Testing and isolating should've been the advice in Jan. Screening travellers, closing borders etc. Now the virus is everywhere. In all corners of the world. The only tests that now matter is the test to see if you've had the virus. That's the focus. Everything else is window dressing. WHO would be better focusing its energy on sorting out it's early warning systems and reorganising internally. Telling countries what to do now makes them look like clowns, especially when the advice is to simply test.
Seriously? That is a ridiculous statement. The more positive cases you can identify the quicker you can isolate them and stop them spreading it. I can't believe this has to be explained at this stage. Id be taking your "in-depth" criticism of WHO with a pinch of salt.

Yes. But we can't test for positive cases and therefore we can't isolate them. We're past that stage for God's sake. Long past it. The WHO should've been telling us to do that in Jan instead of telling us everything was fine and the Chinese were on top of it.

I dont agree with you at all. The WHO gave timely sound advice. Muppets like Boris Johnson and Donald Trump ignored the advise. As this is the first world wide Pandemic since the early 1900's I think it is fair to say the WHO have done quite a good job in general. We all know who has let this thing get out of control.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on April 15, 2020, 04:45:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 15, 2020, 04:39:46 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2020, 04:28:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 15, 2020, 04:04:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2020, 03:50:55 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 15, 2020, 10:57:37 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2020, 10:46:08 AM
Quote from: MayoBuck on April 15, 2020, 10:36:16 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2020, 01:22:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2020, 03:48:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 14, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d7b9fd_cbbad88ec5d5448ebad49b053761c114~mv2.png)

Can't help but notice the Swedes missing from this with their interesting approach.
That list is nonsense. And it isn't a question of what is the best approach, more what you can do with a population who can act responsibly.
Fwiw, despite the Swedes being very slow to recommend self isolation for returnees to the country, very  slow to inform close knit immigrant communities in Stockholm  in their own language about the health info,  they are doing reasonably with their approach. Ireland are just next to to Swedan in the deaths per population table, doing quite poorly and struggling despite the martial law lock down approach.
Another country I mentioned was Iceland  https://www.covid.is/data (https://www.covid.is/data) who have a similar approach to Sweden, there is no lock down,  they have detected a high rate of infections per population but have managed to contain it without a lock down, their peak is well in the past, and they they're preparing for a controlled responsible normality in the next 2 weeks. No roll of the dice as some uninformed folks like to label it.

The data in Ireland is poor, there is no table numbering the recovered. How on earth can one measure the real progress if any,  if you can't compare the numbers of recovered  to the numbers of  live infected?

Recovery doesn't sell fear presumably.

I'm also still continuing to search for data on smokers with this disease from any country, but it's not forthcoming. Why?

No argument with the point in bold, perfectly fair question to ask.

We have a limited testing capacity so can't retest everyone to prove they recovered. The number of people being released from ICU is published however.

I heard yesterday they're low on swabs in the Mayo test centres and will only be testing health care workers for the next few days at least.

This is another example of the WHO's failed strategy. Test! Test! Test!. When there isn't enough PPE, Swabs, testing kits, lab capacity. Their strategy should surely be based around what can be delivered? Developed nations haven't enough of this gear never mind other less developed nations. It really appears to be clown o'clock with these guys.

You expect the WHO to understand the supply chain around all elements of PPE? They layout what is needed, governments need to make it happen. How can Conor McGregor buy PPE and the HSE cant?

I expect them to do their f**king job. At this moment in time they aren't .They're failing miserably and yet they get millions every year. Testing for the disease now at this stage would appear pointless. Testing and isolating should've been the advice in Jan. Screening travellers, closing borders etc. Now the virus is everywhere. In all corners of the world. The only tests that now matter is the test to see if you've had the virus. That's the focus. Everything else is window dressing. WHO would be better focusing its energy on sorting out it's early warning systems and reorganising internally. Telling countries what to do now makes them look like clowns, especially when the advice is to simply test.
Seriously? That is a ridiculous statement. The more positive cases you can identify the quicker you can isolate them and stop them spreading it. I can't believe this has to be explained at this stage. Id be taking your "in-depth" criticism of WHO with a pinch of salt.

Yes. But we can't test for positive cases and therefore we can't isolate them. We're past that stage for God's sake. Long past it. The WHO should've been telling us to do that in Jan instead of telling us everything was fine and the Chinese were on top of it.

I dont agree with you at all. The WHO gave timely sound advice. Muppets like Boris Johnson and Donald Trump ignored the advise. As this is the first world wide Pandemic since the early 1900's I think it is fair to say the WHO have done quite a good job in general. We all know who has let this thing get out of control.
who ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 15, 2020, 04:48:12 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 04:35:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2020, 03:50:55 PMTesting for the disease now at this stage would appear pointless

Yes...

I can see no value whatsoever in knowing if:
- people working in supermarkets have the virus
- people working in food handling have the virus
- people working in non-COVID hospital wards have the virus
- people working in care homes have the virus
- people providing home help have the virus
- people providing care to vulnerable family members have the virus


[/s]  ::)

Right. If I have had the virus and displayed no symptoms, how do we find that person? Most people are asymptomatic. That's why testing is just window dressing.
If countries could test everyone all the time that would be useful, but they can't. Developed nations with advanced healthcare can't do it, so how in the name of God would other less developed nations do it? Remember it's the WORLD health organisation not the DEVELOP NATIONS WITH ADVANCED HEALTH CARE health organisation. Their solution works in a handful of countries only.
The only test that matters is the test to see if you have had the virus. Everything else is bullshit.
Governments and the WHO are in full arse covering mode. Hard questions need asked of these muppets.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 15, 2020, 04:52:28 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 15, 2020, 04:39:46 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2020, 04:28:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 15, 2020, 04:04:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2020, 03:50:55 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 15, 2020, 10:57:37 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2020, 10:46:08 AM
Quote from: MayoBuck on April 15, 2020, 10:36:16 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 09:15:44 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 15, 2020, 01:22:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2020, 03:48:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 14, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d7b9fd_cbbad88ec5d5448ebad49b053761c114~mv2.png)

Can't help but notice the Swedes missing from this with their interesting approach.
That list is nonsense. And it isn't a question of what is the best approach, more what you can do with a population who can act responsibly.
Fwiw, despite the Swedes being very slow to recommend self isolation for returnees to the country, very  slow to inform close knit immigrant communities in Stockholm  in their own language about the health info,  they are doing reasonably with their approach. Ireland are just next to to Swedan in the deaths per population table, doing quite poorly and struggling despite the martial law lock down approach.
Another country I mentioned was Iceland  https://www.covid.is/data (https://www.covid.is/data) who have a similar approach to Sweden, there is no lock down,  they have detected a high rate of infections per population but have managed to contain it without a lock down, their peak is well in the past, and they they're preparing for a controlled responsible normality in the next 2 weeks. No roll of the dice as some uninformed folks like to label it.

The data in Ireland is poor, there is no table numbering the recovered. How on earth can one measure the real progress if any,  if you can't compare the numbers of recovered  to the numbers of  live infected?

Recovery doesn't sell fear presumably.

I'm also still continuing to search for data on smokers with this disease from any country, but it's not forthcoming. Why?

No argument with the point in bold, perfectly fair question to ask.

We have a limited testing capacity so can't retest everyone to prove they recovered. The number of people being released from ICU is published however.

I heard yesterday they're low on swabs in the Mayo test centres and will only be testing health care workers for the next few days at least.

This is another example of the WHO's failed strategy. Test! Test! Test!. When there isn't enough PPE, Swabs, testing kits, lab capacity. Their strategy should surely be based around what can be delivered? Developed nations haven't enough of this gear never mind other less developed nations. It really appears to be clown o'clock with these guys.

You expect the WHO to understand the supply chain around all elements of PPE? They layout what is needed, governments need to make it happen. How can Conor McGregor buy PPE and the HSE cant?

I expect them to do their f**king job. At this moment in time they aren't .They're failing miserably and yet they get millions every year. Testing for the disease now at this stage would appear pointless. Testing and isolating should've been the advice in Jan. Screening travellers, closing borders etc. Now the virus is everywhere. In all corners of the world. The only tests that now matter is the test to see if you've had the virus. That's the focus. Everything else is window dressing. WHO would be better focusing its energy on sorting out it's early warning systems and reorganising internally. Telling countries what to do now makes them look like clowns, especially when the advice is to simply test.
Seriously? That is a ridiculous statement. The more positive cases you can identify the quicker you can isolate them and stop them spreading it. I can't believe this has to be explained at this stage. Id be taking your "in-depth" criticism of WHO with a pinch of salt.

Yes. But we can't test for positive cases and therefore we can't isolate them. We're past that stage for God's sake. Long past it. The WHO should've been telling us to do that in Jan instead of telling us everything was fine and the Chinese were on top of it.

I dont agree with you at all. The WHO gave timely sound advice. Muppets like Boris Johnson and Donald Trump ignored the advise. As this is the first world wide Pandemic since the early 1900's I think it is fair to say the WHO have done quite a good job in general. We all know who has let this thing get out of control.

It's out of control in Italy, Spain, France, UK, USA, Iran and lots of other nations. It's not all Donald Trump and Boris Johnson's fault.
The WHO have been found out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 15, 2020, 05:16:24 PM
Time to put Trailer in charge of dealing with this Virus..
...or would Karen on facebook do a better job?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 15, 2020, 05:37:13 PM
And talking about experts... where would we be without these pair?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/journalists-bring-court-challenge-against-constitutionality-of-covid-19-laws-994205.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 05:40:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 15, 2020, 05:37:13 PM
And talking about experts... where would we be without these pair?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/journalists-bring-court-challenge-against-constitutionality-of-covid-19-laws-994205.html

and the daft judge that didn't throw it straight out the door.

Any wonder drunk adults try and sue for falling off swings when the judiciary is full of idiots with no cop-on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 15, 2020, 06:12:07 PM
Not good. If you presume the 657 cases are people who got it fairly recently, then they got it after the measures started and some of these might be dying in a fortnight. Probably, the German cases are quite old.
But there is still more to be done.

38 more people have died from Covid-19 in the State, bringing the overall death toll to 444.

657  more cases of the coronavirus have also been diagnosed in the Republic. In addition, a further 411 cases of coronavirus were confirmed from the backlog of tests at the laboratory in Germany.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 15, 2020, 06:19:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 15, 2020, 06:12:07 PM
Not good. If you presume the 657 cases are people who got it fairly recently, then they got it after the measures started and some of these might be dying in a fortnight. Probably, the German cases are quite old.
But there is still more to be done.

38 more people have died from Covid-19 in the State, bringing the overall death toll to 444.

657  more cases of the coronavirus have also been diagnosed in the Republic. In addition, a further 411 cases of coronavirus were confirmed from the backlog of tests at the laboratory in Germany.

Any break down on the deaths per county or are they sticking to east, west and north west when reporting deaths?

The 6 counties at 140 confirmed deaths but are only counting Hospital deaths. 14,635 confirmed cases on the island of Ireland.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:34:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 15, 2020, 06:12:07 PM
Not good.

Definitely not good (https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/graph/png/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland/0/98af7e5de3514854e3a28917b6bc5e42b2358a81.png).

I see nothing there that would signify transmission rates are dropping.

The spike on 10th April and days thereafter is due to the addition of results coming back from labs in Germany. Which indicates known infections are very much testing constrained - more tests done quicker are needed for a better picture.


There will be no lifting of the lockdown for a good while yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 15, 2020, 06:46:36 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 06:34:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 15, 2020, 06:12:07 PM
Not good.

Definitely not good.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/graph/png/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland/0/900218e40b94c64400943b6d425a44cb43ff0ece.png)

I see nothing there that would signify transmission rates are dropping.

The spike on 10th April and days thereafter is due to the addition of results coming back from labs in Germany. Which indicates known infections are very much testing constrained - more tests done quicker are needed for a better picture.


There will be no lifting of the lockdown for a good while yet.

We need to know the time element in this. Hopefully by next week test results will be constant 2 days or whatever and we can plan on that basis. Schools have been closed for four and half weeks now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 06:51:41 PM
So when will lockdown measures start showing an improvement? 7/8 weeks?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 15, 2020, 06:59:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 06:51:41 PM
So when will lockdown measures start showing an improvement? 7/8 weeks?

We're a month into it in NY and things have levelled off in the past week, albeit at a high level.

Hospitalization and intensive care rates are now starting to decline though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 15, 2020, 07:04:36 PM
How long are we into it? I barely even know what day of the week it is any more... I think this is my fourth week working from home and it was only a week in we went into lockdown so 3 weeks?

I would expect a few extensions to this yet. I would hope to be out of it by end of June. If they go too soon it will just get worse so I would hope start of June earliest. Imo numbers should be really dropping before things open up again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 07:07:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 06:51:41 PM
So when will lockdown measures start showing an improvement? 7/8 weeks?

Given a formal lockdown was started around 2 weeks ago and an informal lockdown was ramping up for a week or two before then, we really should have started to see some evidence of it by now.

Broadly speaking, it goes something like (after exposure to virus):
- 1st week, no symptoms, unsure of spreading potential, initial thoughts were not, now its uncertain
- early 2nd week, symptoms show, definite spreader potential from this point onward
- late 2nd, early 3rd week, hospitalisation if required
- late 3rd week to 4th week, average critical week for survival if symptoms are acute

So, we're something like 14-28 weeks into effective social distancing (depending where you deem the start line), so really should hitting the bolded line above, where I expect most testing here is done (when someone is coughing like f**k with a fever).

Of course, with testing coverage being so poor, and no doubt the positive results not being back-dated to when the tests were taken, a real picture is hard to ascertain.

If the picture is accurate, then lockdown isn't working. At which point a greater analysis of who is testing positive and how they got the virus is needed - which is where testing and contract tracing comes in.

If we can figure out how its spreading, then we can put in place measures to protect everyone.

For instance - if someone has got it and the only place they've been in the past 4 weeks is the supermarket down the road - its self-explanatory how they got it. Then is that supermarket adhering to recommendations? If so, that'd mean the recommendations are insufficient. Or what about workers at the supermarket, are they asymptomatic carriers?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 15, 2020, 07:48:15 PM
No sign of the death figures being anywhere near what's expected in NI. We heard of "sobering" numbers. It's week 4 of the lockdown. Should people start to get ready for Schools reopening and going back to work? I know they've announced an extension but I would imagine that'll be it.

An aside. Furlough is brilliant and welcomed, but the longer the economy stagnates employees could find themselves being made redundant at the end of that 3 month scheme. Do not expect the economy to start right up again. I was shocked when someone thought the factory he worked in expected him to just take these 3 months as a holiday and that his job would be there and everything back to normal. When I pointed out this might not be the case he was kind of shocked and thought I was being stupid. 
Certainly anyone in the entertainment industry should expect to made redundant.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 15, 2020, 07:54:10 PM
Yes radiogaagaa I would be hopeful to see more tracing too. There are people being careful still getting this and it is important to know how to prevent it. I do wonder about some old people etc and where they have been to get it. Still worries me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 15, 2020, 08:00:04 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 07:07:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 06:51:41 PM
So when will lockdown measures start showing an improvement? 7/8 weeks?

Given a formal lockdown was started around 2 weeks ago and an informal lockdown was ramping up for a week or two before then, we really should have started to see some evidence of it by now.

Broadly speaking, it goes something like (after exposure to virus):
- 1st week, no symptoms, unsure of spreading potential, initial thoughts were not, now its uncertain
- early 2nd week, symptoms show, definite spreader potential from this point onward
- late 2nd, early 3rd week, hospitalisation if required
- late 3rd week to 4th week, average critical week for survival if symptoms are acute

So, we're something like 14-28 weeks into effective social distancing (depending where you deem the start line), so really should hitting the bolded line above, where I expect most testing here is done (when someone is coughing like f**k with a fever).

Of course, with testing coverage being so poor, and no doubt the positive results not being back-dated to when the tests were taken, a real picture is hard to ascertain.

If the picture is accurate, then lockdown isn't working. At which point a greater analysis of who is testing positive and how they got the virus is needed - which is where testing and contract tracing comes in.

If we can figure out how its spreading, then we can put in place measures to protect everyone.

For instance - if someone has got it and the only place they've been in the past 4 weeks is the supermarket down the road - its self-explanatory how they got it. Then is that supermarket adhering to recommendations? If so, that'd mean the recommendations are insufficient. Or what about workers at the supermarket, are they asymptomatic carriers?

There was a report today of study by a  Hong Kong university in China. They reckon 40% of transmission is before people get symptoms and people are more likely to transmit the virus the day before symptoms appear. This makes it very hard to deal with it.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/more-than-two-fifths-of-coronavirus-transmissions-occur-before-symptoms-show-994196.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: MayoBuck on April 15, 2020, 08:05:41 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 15, 2020, 06:19:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 15, 2020, 06:12:07 PM
Not good. If you presume the 657 cases are people who got it fairly recently, then they got it after the measures started and some of these might be dying in a fortnight. Probably, the German cases are quite old.
But there is still more to be done.

38 more people have died from Covid-19 in the State, bringing the overall death toll to 444.

657  more cases of the coronavirus have also been diagnosed in the Republic. In addition, a further 411 cases of coronavirus were confirmed from the backlog of tests at the laboratory in Germany.

Any break down on the deaths per county or are they sticking to east, west and north west when reporting deaths?

The 6 counties at 140 confirmed deaths but are only counting Hospital deaths. 14,635 confirmed cases on the island of Ireland.

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2020/04/15/4188624-number-of-confirmed-covid/

That has the number of cases in Connacht.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 15, 2020, 08:10:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 06:51:41 PM
So when will lockdown measures start showing an improvement? 7/8 weeks?
The replication rate of the virus  was estimated between 2.5 and 3.5 pre lockdown in the UK. Experts now think it is 0.6. Anything below 1 means the virus is under control
There is a lag for deaths. We should know more by the end of the month.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 15, 2020, 08:18:33 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 15, 2020, 08:10:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 06:51:41 PM
So when will lockdown measures start showing an improvement? 7/8 weeks?
The replication rate of the virus  was estimated between 2.5 and 3.5 pre lockdown in the UK. Experts now think it is 0.6. Anything below 1 means the virus is under control
There is a lag for deaths. We should know more by the end of the month.

They think its dropped to that *here*?

I'd love to see the evidence they have guiding them to that conclusion! Not much in the public domain would suggest such.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 15, 2020, 08:19:10 PM

   .
   https://www.ft.com/content/a48793d8-7e3e-11ea-82f6-150830b3b99a

   "We are at a moment of cautious optimism about the virus's trajectory. But the worst-case scenario, in which repeated outbreaks cripple the US economy for another six months or more, may yet play out."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on April 15, 2020, 08:51:48 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 15, 2020, 06:19:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 15, 2020, 06:12:07 PM
Not good. If you presume the 657 cases are people who got it fairly recently, then they got it after the measures started and some of these might be dying in a fortnight. Probably, the German cases are quite old.
But there is still more to be done.

38 more people have died from Covid-19 in the State, bringing the overall death toll to 444.

657  more cases of the coronavirus have also been diagnosed in the Republic. In addition, a further 411 cases of coronavirus were confirmed from the backlog of tests at the laboratory in Germany.

Any break down on the deaths per county or are they sticking to east, west and north west when reporting deaths?

The 6 counties at 140 confirmed deaths but are only counting Hospital deaths. 14,635 confirmed cases on the island of Ireland.

There's a pretty decent tracker on the RTÉ website:

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/summary/

Mayo has a pretty high level of cases, roughly the same as Galway with only half the population; roughly 4 times Sligo & Roscommon who both have roughly half our population. Presumably there must be a few nursing home clusters here

Edit: actually from that twitter thread, it looks like sligo / Galway / Roscommon have particularly low infection rates rather than Mayo having particularly high rates
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on April 15, 2020, 08:56:00 PM
Some interesting stuff here including a county by county breakdown (ROI only)

https://mobile.twitter.com/higginsdavidw
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on April 15, 2020, 08:59:11 PM
As mentioned above there's going to be a serious amount of people laid off when things open back up again and probably until the end of the year as businesses struggle for cash flow!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 09:01:02 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 15, 2020, 08:59:11 PM
As mentioned above there's going to be a serious amount of people laid off when things open back up again and probably until the end of the year as businesses struggle for cash flow!!

Would be a minimum of 3 weeks for any cash flow going into a company again after lockdown measures would be lifted. Well that's what I've been told through our work
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 15, 2020, 09:32:10 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 15, 2020, 08:51:48 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 15, 2020, 06:19:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 15, 2020, 06:12:07 PM
Not good. If you presume the 657 cases are people who got it fairly recently, then they got it after the measures started and some of these might be dying in a fortnight. Probably, the German cases are quite old.
But there is still more to be done.

38 more people have died from Covid-19 in the State, bringing the overall death toll to 444.

657  more cases of the coronavirus have also been diagnosed in the Republic. In addition, a further 411 cases of coronavirus were confirmed from the backlog of tests at the laboratory in Germany.

Any break down on the deaths per county or are they sticking to east, west and north west when reporting deaths?

The 6 counties at 140 confirmed deaths but are only counting Hospital deaths. 14,635 confirmed cases on the island of Ireland.

There's a pretty decent tracker on the RTÉ website:

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/summary/

Mayo has a pretty high level of cases, roughly the same as Galway with only half the population; roughly 4 times Sligo & Roscommon who both have roughly half our population. Presumably there must be a few nursing home clusters here

Edit: actually from that twitter thread, it looks like sligo / Galway / Roscommon have particularly low infection rates rather than Mayo having particularly high rates

Cases per county are published every day however unless I missed it I don't see any breakdown on deaths for each county. Today for example it states 29 in the east, 6 in the west and 3 in the south.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on April 15, 2020, 09:36:26 PM
Unfortunately I knew one of the people that died from it in today's numbers. Only in his 40's.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on April 15, 2020, 09:46:53 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 15, 2020, 09:32:10 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 15, 2020, 08:51:48 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 15, 2020, 06:19:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 15, 2020, 06:12:07 PM
Not good. If you presume the 657 cases are people who got it fairly recently, then they got it after the measures started and some of these might be dying in a fortnight. Probably, the German cases are quite old.
But there is still more to be done.

38 more people have died from Covid-19 in the State, bringing the overall death toll to 444.

657  more cases of the coronavirus have also been diagnosed in the Republic. In addition, a further 411 cases of coronavirus were confirmed from the backlog of tests at the laboratory in Germany.

Any break down on the deaths per county or are they sticking to east, west and north west when reporting deaths?

The 6 counties at 140 confirmed deaths but are only counting Hospital deaths. 14,635 confirmed cases on the island of Ireland.

There's a pretty decent tracker on the RTÉ website:

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/summary/

Mayo has a pretty high level of cases, roughly the same as Galway with only half the population; roughly 4 times Sligo & Roscommon who both have roughly half our population. Presumably there must be a few nursing home clusters here

Edit: actually from that twitter thread, it looks like sligo / Galway / Roscommon have particularly low infection rates rather than Mayo having particularly high rates

Cases per county are published every day however unless I missed it I don't see any breakdown on deaths for each county. Today for example it states 29 in the east, 6 in the west and 3 in the south.

No, haven't seen deaths by county.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 10:14:28 PM
The news are reporting care home deaths now, I take it that spiked up the registered deaths from hospitals.

25% deaths in Scotland happened in care homes

I'd imagine if you take that figure and add in as a minimum to the rest of the UK you'll be closer to the real figure?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on April 15, 2020, 10:28:12 PM
Just checking the figures there France are taking an awful hammering Macron has plenty of questions to answer!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on April 15, 2020, 10:40:09 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 15, 2020, 10:28:12 PM
Just checking the figures there France are taking an awful hammering Macron has plenty of questions to answer!!

What site / sites are you using to check numbers etc? BBC is a disaster to get any clear cut information.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on April 15, 2020, 10:47:35 PM
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 10:59:05 PM
I seen the figures for care homes in Europe. Between 45% and 57%!

Ireland figure is 54% deaths are happening in care homes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 15, 2020, 10:59:39 PM
Is it not a case of how the French are counting the deaths? Ie they are including care home deaths while other countries are not? I mentioned earlier on this thread that the UK weren't even including deaths in hospital that had covid19 on their death certificate unless they had a positive test. I know the states were doing similar but they may have changed that in the last couple of days. In short it is even difficult to compare daily death counts between countries if there is a disparity on how it is counted. Some countries figures maybe close to the actual reality and others not so much. All that being said the numbers coming out of France make for harrowing reading.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 11:06:15 PM
France was including them it seems as they were giving off about how the UK was saying they were better! Until they were told you are not including care home numbers!

So France are actually below Britain if they just count hospital deaths
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on April 15, 2020, 11:09:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 11:06:15 PM
France was including them it seems as they were giving off about how the UK was saying they were better! Until they were told you are not including care home numbers!

So France are actually below Britain if they just count hospital deaths

I'm really not sure how anyone can compare numbers by country and then make statements about them with conviction.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 11:14:14 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 15, 2020, 11:09:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 11:06:15 PM
France was including them it seems as they were giving off about how the UK was saying they were better! Until they were told you are not including care home numbers!

So France are actually below Britain if they just count hospital deaths

I'm really not sure how anyone can compare numbers by country and then make statements about them with conviction.

This is currently on the Peston show
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on April 15, 2020, 11:17:21 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 15, 2020, 11:09:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 11:06:15 PM
France was including them it seems as they were giving off about how the UK was saying they were better! Until they were told you are not including care home numbers!

So France are actually below Britain if they just count hospital deaths

I'm really not sure how anyone can compare numbers by country and then make statements about them with conviction.

Yeah it's a total waste of time at this point
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on April 15, 2020, 11:18:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 11:14:14 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 15, 2020, 11:09:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 11:06:15 PM
France was including them it seems as they were giving off about how the UK was saying they were better! Until they were told you are not including care home numbers!

So France are actually below Britain if they just count hospital deaths

I'm really not sure how anyone can compare numbers by country and then make statements about them with conviction.

This is currently on the Peston show

"Anyone" includes journalists, broadcasters, scientists, politicians, NHS workers.... and even celebrities
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on April 15, 2020, 11:43:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 10:59:05 PM
I seen the figures for care homes in Europe. Between 45% and 57%!

Ireland figure is 54% deaths are happening in care homes

Where are you getting 54% from? HSE update this evening said that 64% of deaths had occurred in hospital

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0415/1130739-covid-ireland-update/

QuoteIn relation to the people who have died, 284 or 64% occurred in hospital. In 84% of cases there was an underlying condition. The median age is 82
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 11:46:56 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 15, 2020, 11:43:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 10:59:05 PM
I seen the figures for care homes in Europe. Between 45% and 57%!

Ireland figure is 54% deaths are happening in care homes

Where are you getting 54% from? HSE update this evening said that 64% of deaths had occurred in hospital

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0415/1130739-covid-ireland-update/

QuoteIn relation to the people who have died, 284 or 64% occurred in hospital. In 84% of cases there was an underlying condition. The median age is 82

The figure came up on the Peston show
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 15, 2020, 11:56:20 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 15, 2020, 11:43:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 10:59:05 PM
I seen the figures for care homes in Europe. Between 45% and 57%!

Ireland figure is 54% deaths are happening in care homes

Where are you getting 54% from? HSE update this evening said that 64% of deaths had occurred in hospital

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0415/1130739-covid-ireland-update/

QuoteIn relation to the people who have died, 284 or 64% occurred in a hospital. In 84% of cases there was an underlying condition. The median age is 82

Some of those who died in a hospital were brought there from care homes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 16, 2020, 10:40:48 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 11:46:56 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 15, 2020, 11:43:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2020, 10:59:05 PM
I seen the figures for care homes in Europe. Between 45% and 57%!

Ireland figure is 54% deaths are happening in care homes

Where are you getting 54% from? HSE update this evening said that 64% of deaths had occurred in hospital

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0415/1130739-covid-ireland-update/

QuoteIn relation to the people who have died, 284 or 64% occurred in hospital. In 84% of cases there was an underlying condition. The median age is 82

The figure came up on the Peston show

I saw that as well MR2.

Most other EU countries were also deemed to be in and around the 50% mark as well IIRC so if the UK is anything like that then they'll be top of the European league for deaths from/with CV-19.

This Friday when they're meant to release the outside hospital numbers as well will be telling although I think both Scotland and Wales already count these figures on a daily basis.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on April 16, 2020, 11:09:27 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 15, 2020, 05:16:24 PM
Time to put Trailer in charge of dealing with this Virus..
...or would Karen on facebook do a better job?

;D

I'd be gobsmacked if 4 maybe 5 from this thread haven't been headhunted to spearhead Ireland's Corona Rapid Annihilation Programme
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 16, 2020, 11:13:00 AM
Things ramping up this morning on the virus was created in a lab theory.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 16, 2020, 11:50:36 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 16, 2020, 11:13:00 AM
Things ramping up this morning on the virus was created in a lab theory.

Trump is a retard.  ::)

Anyone who finds him acceptable is also a retard.  [that is just a general observation, I'm not aiming at you.]




That is what the Chinese do, they sit in labs generating viruses and then spreading them around their country with the aim of hurting the Imperialist Americans.

That of course, is why SARS (2003) killed 349 people in China and literally a whole 0 people in the USA. They then improved on this with MERS, which killed a full 0 people in the USA.

(Both of which were definitively traced to horseshoe bats in Yunnan and Egyptian tomb bats respectively.)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 16, 2020, 11:59:03 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 16, 2020, 11:50:36 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 16, 2020, 11:13:00 AM
Things ramping up this morning on the virus was created in a lab theory.

Trump is a retard.  ::)

Anyone who finds him acceptable is also a retard.  [that is just a general observation, I'm not aiming at you.]




That is what the Chinese do, they sit in labs generating viruses and then spreading them around their country with the aim of hurting the Imperialist Americans.

That of course, is why SARS (2003) killed 349 people in China and literally a whole 0 people in the USA. They then improved on this with MERS, which killed a full 0 people in the USA.

(Both of which were definitively traced to horseshoe bats in Yunnan and Egyptian tomb bats respectively.)

Acceptable, certainly not. But I do admit to his complete lack of tact at times giving me a giggle.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 16, 2020, 12:19:50 PM
I'd laugh at him too until I realise he's in charge of the "red button".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 16, 2020, 12:45:29 PM
In Ireland we're locking down the healthy population and opening up the nursing homes. I'll say it again whats happened over the last 5 weeks in a considerable number of nursing homes is shamefull. HSE cocked up big time. In real terms a 30 year old unemployed man cant go out to purchase a tin of paint to paint his own house, yet a medical contractor can work with patients in a coronavirus ward & later do a shift in a nursing home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2020, 01:36:45 PM
The absolute cheek of the minister on the news now, wearing a NHS badge, the same Cnut voted against the nurses getting a wage increase!

No shame
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 16, 2020, 01:40:22 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 16, 2020, 12:45:29 PM
In Ireland we're locking down the healthy population and opening up the nursing homes. I'll say it again whats happened over the last 5 weeks in a considerable number of nursing homes is shamefull. HSE cocked up big time. In real terms a 30 year old unemployed man cant go out to purchase a tin of paint to paint his own house, yet a medical contractor can work with patients in a coronavirus ward & later do a shift in a nursing home.

That does on the face of it seem nuts TBF but it's not related to an unemployed man going into a DIY shop with lord knows how many other people doing the same or similar things
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 16, 2020, 02:08:12 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 16, 2020, 01:40:22 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 16, 2020, 12:45:29 PM
In Ireland we're locking down the healthy population and opening up the nursing homes. I'll say it again whats happened over the last 5 weeks in a considerable number of nursing homes is shamefull. HSE cocked up big time. In real terms a 30 year old unemployed man cant go out to purchase a tin of paint to paint his own house, yet a medical contractor can work with patients in a coronavirus ward & later do a shift in a nursing home.

That does on the face of it seem nuts TBF but it's not related to an unemployed man going into a DIY shop with lord knows how many other people doing the same or similar things

Study down by some German scientists on a large portion of the Covid affected population in Heisenberg, he found zero transmissions in supermarkets. Virus doesn't survive long on surfaces, this study seems to conflict with other theories.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 16, 2020, 02:18:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2020, 01:36:45 PM
The absolute cheek of the minister on the news now, wearing a NHS badge, the same Cnut voted against the nurses getting a wage increase!

No shame

I think it was you who once quoted me when I said Irish politics was vile, with all politics is vile.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 16, 2020, 02:24:06 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 16, 2020, 02:08:12 PM
Study down by some German scientists on a large portion of the Covid affected population in Heisenberg, he found zero transmissions in supermarkets. Virus doesn't survive long on surfaces, this study seems to conflict with other theories.

That'd be brilliant news if true - but it would mean that new case numbers should have fallen off a cliff after lockdown and only stupid people caught it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2020, 02:24:27 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 16, 2020, 02:18:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2020, 01:36:45 PM
The absolute cheek of the minister on the news now, wearing a NHS badge, the same Cnut voted against the nurses getting a wage increase!

No shame

I think it was you who once quoted me when I said Irish politics was vile, with all politics is vile.

Look the thing about voters, they will still vote people in and allow them to be in charge of the country regardless of how they acted in the past, it doesn't matter which country it is. Very sad that the particular parties are so entrenched on their party course that they can't change their view points when it makes sense!

Politics is a rotten job
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 16, 2020, 03:45:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 16, 2020, 02:08:12 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 16, 2020, 01:40:22 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 16, 2020, 12:45:29 PM
In Ireland we're locking down the healthy population and opening up the nursing homes. I'll say it again whats happened over the last 5 weeks in a considerable number of nursing homes is shamefull. HSE cocked up big time. In real terms a 30 year old unemployed man cant go out to purchase a tin of paint to paint his own house, yet a medical contractor can work with patients in a coronavirus ward & later do a shift in a nursing home.

That does on the face of it seem nuts TBF but it's not related to an unemployed man going into a DIY shop with lord knows how many other people doing the same or similar things

Study down by some German scientists on a large portion of the Covid affected population in Heisenberg, he found zero transmissions in supermarkets. Virus doesn't survive long on surfaces, this study seems to conflict with other theories.

According to Flu Expert Dr Jeremy Brown and he said it that chances of catching covid-19 from hard surfaces (out and about) would be minimal as it take on a different form?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2020, 03:47:52 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 16, 2020, 02:24:06 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 16, 2020, 02:08:12 PM
Study down by some German scientists on a large portion of the Covid affected population in Heisenberg, he found zero transmissions in supermarkets. Virus doesn't survive long on surfaces, this study seems to conflict with other theories.

That'd be brilliant news if true - but it would mean that new case numbers should have fallen off a cliff after lockdown and only stupid people caught it.

Looks to be a guy called Hendrik Streeck. His assertions that surface transmission is inconsequential has been about for a couple of weeks now. Hopefully, for all our sakes, there'll be more info coming out to support it. Social distancing and face masks would still have to be maintained, but it would ease a lot of stress if you didn't have to worry that (outside of someone having just sneezed on it) the delivery box or the grocery item is contaminated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 16, 2020, 03:52:38 PM
If it's not coming from surfaces(and to be honest I'm not expert but was never sure it was) then how are all the people who have it catching it is what I really wonder.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 16, 2020, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 16, 2020, 02:08:12 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 16, 2020, 01:40:22 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 16, 2020, 12:45:29 PM
In Ireland we're locking down the healthy population and opening up the nursing homes. I'll say it again whats happened over the last 5 weeks in a considerable number of nursing homes is shamefull. HSE cocked up big time. In real terms a 30 year old unemployed man cant go out to purchase a tin of paint to paint his own house, yet a medical contractor can work with patients in a coronavirus ward & later do a shift in a nursing home.

That does on the face of it seem nuts TBF but it's not related to an unemployed man going into a DIY shop with lord knows how many other people doing the same or similar things

Study down by some German scientists on a large portion of the Covid affected population in Heisenberg, he found zero transmissions in supermarkets. Virus doesn't survive long on surfaces, this study seems to conflict with other theories.

The virus survives on surfaces, but perhaps not to the extent required to infect you. I don't think boxes etc were ever a huge issue, but the handle of a basket might be. In Singapore, they indicated that someone had picked up Covid in a chiurch by using the same seat as someone who had been there earlier.

We don't know who caught it after lockdown, a fair few are family members or people who are in the same nursing home etc. Presumably there is more and more data from different countries and this will inform the relaxation of restrictions. Half the restrictions are useless, the trick is knowing which half.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 16, 2020, 04:09:35 PM
Not verified but there is a screenshot of a letter doing the rounds that pubs will not be allowed to open until 1st Sept at the earliest
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on April 16, 2020, 04:20:46 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 16, 2020, 11:13:00 AM
Things ramping up this morning on the virus was created in a lab theory.
came from a Wuhan lab that were doing tests on horse shoe bats , got out accidentally is what is being reported .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 16, 2020, 04:21:47 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 15, 2020, 12:23:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 15, 2020, 12:22:12 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2020, 11:27:05 AM
A decent wage for the NHS staff wouldn't have helped this though..well, perhaps more people may have taken to the profession in the meantime boosting staffing numbers I suppose but it's just a complete lack of investment all round and it's now been shown in the most clinical way.

When the coronavirus blitz passes and life begins to return to somewhat normal, (hopefully). The NHS will be booted from pillar to post again. It seems like it's the handest thing to strip to bare bones.....luckily they have been working and spending on a replacement for the Trident Nuclear Warhead in the meantime to teach this pesky virus a lesson soon.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/01/conservatives-underfunding-nhs-made-crisis-inevitable

Before last November's Budget, health leaders warned that this fiscal famine could not endure. Simon Stevens, the NHS chief executive, requested a minimum increase of £4bn in 2018 (far below the £18.2bn - or £350m a week - promised by the Leave campaign). "2018, which happens to be the 70th anniversary of the NHS, is poised to be the toughest financial year," Stevens warned. After nearly a decade of austerity, he noted, Britain was underfunding the health service by £20-30bn compared to comparable countries such as Germany, France and Sweden.

Comparing apples and oranges, in Germany's case anyway. Funded totally differently
More on the NHS

   https://www.ft.com/content/275a3a98-7f1d-11ea-82f6-150830b3b99a

   "When Mr Johnson applauds what ministers pointedly claim as "our NHS", he omits to mention that since 2010 the governments of David Cameron and Theresa May subjected it to a ferocious financial squeeze which, according to the Independent think-tank The King's Fund, represented the harshest clampdown since 1945. Hospitals have fallen into disrepair and patients have faced long delays and waiting lists for essential treatment.

The NHS stands as the poor relation among European neighbours. According to the independent Nuffield Trust, it provides fewer than three doctors per 1,000 of population. That compares with four in Italy, 4.2 in Germany and 4.8 in Norway. There are similar shortfalls in the numbers of nurses and other clinical staff and of hospital beds. By the count of the OECD, Britain has 2.5 hospital beds per 1,000 of population against six in France and eight in Germany.

Defying the rising demand for healthcare from an ageing population and the high cost of sophisticated medical equipment and modern pharmaceuticals, spending on the NHS has fallen as a share of national income since 2010. Between 2000 and 2010 the share rose from 5 per cent to 7.75 per cent. By 2018 it had fallen back to 7.35 per cent. 

An even tighter squeeze on the budgets of local authorities for the care of the elderly has left large numbers of those who would otherwise be in residential homes stranded in NHS beds. The hard work and deep reservoir of determination of health service workers witnessed during the present crisis have long served as a sticking plaster on an open wound."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 16, 2020, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 16, 2020, 04:09:35 PM
Not verified but there is a screenshot of a letter doing the rounds that pubs will not be allowed to open until 1st Sept at the earliest

I got a whatsapp this morning saying something like bars were to open in June 01st, some doctor or something. I can't mind what the accompanying text was. Pinch of salt stuff. Does the rounds on whatsapp generally false.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 16, 2020, 04:34:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 16, 2020, 04:20:46 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 16, 2020, 11:13:00 AM
Things ramping up this morning on the virus was created in a lab theory.
came from a Wuhan lab that were doing tests on horse shoe bats , got out accidentally is what is being reported .

... and then made its way to the wet market before infecting anyone.

Faux News really have taxed their 3 brain cells to think of this one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 16, 2020, 04:36:12 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 16, 2020, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 16, 2020, 04:09:35 PM
Not verified but there is a screenshot of a letter doing the rounds that pubs will not be allowed to open until 1st Sept at the earliest

I got a whatsapp this morning saying something like bars were to open in June 01st, some doctor or something. I can't mind what the accompanying text was. Pinch of salt stuff. Does the rounds on whatsapp generally false.

I've been speaking quietly to a few friends who have pubs. They haven't a clue no more than anyone else but would be thrilled to be open by early June. Each recognises that pubs will be the among the last businesses to reopen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2020, 04:41:18 PM
Quote from: five points on April 16, 2020, 04:36:12 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 16, 2020, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 16, 2020, 04:09:35 PM
Not verified but there is a screenshot of a letter doing the rounds that pubs will not be allowed to open until 1st Sept at the earliest

I got a whatsapp this morning saying something like bars were to open in June 01st, some doctor or something. I can't mind what the accompanying text was. Pinch of salt stuff. Does the rounds on whatsapp generally false.

I've been speaking quietly to a few friends who have pubs. They haven't a clue no more than anyone else but would be thrilled to be open by early June. Each recognises that pubs will be the among the last businesses to reopen.

If they aren't allowed to open by June at some point (in some form) a lot of bars won't be opening at all!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 16, 2020, 04:43:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2020, 04:41:18 PM
Quote from: five points on April 16, 2020, 04:36:12 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 16, 2020, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 16, 2020, 04:09:35 PM
Not verified but there is a screenshot of a letter doing the rounds that pubs will not be allowed to open until 1st Sept at the earliest

I got a whatsapp this morning saying something like bars were to open in June 01st, some doctor or something. I can't mind what the accompanying text was. Pinch of salt stuff. Does the rounds on whatsapp generally false.

I've been speaking quietly to a few friends who have pubs. They haven't a clue no more than anyone else but would be thrilled to be open by early June. Each recognises that pubs will be the among the last businesses to reopen.

If they aren't allowed to open by June at some point (in some form) a lot of bars won't be opening at all!

Off License owners would love to see them closed for a long time
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 16, 2020, 04:46:16 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 16, 2020, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 16, 2020, 04:09:35 PM
Not verified but there is a screenshot of a letter doing the rounds that pubs will not be allowed to open until 1st Sept at the earliest

I got a whatsapp this morning saying something like bars were to open in June 01st, some doctor or something. I can't mind what the accompanying text was. Pinch of salt stuff. Does the rounds on whatsapp generally false.

They'll have to wait till Karen on facebook gives the OK
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 16, 2020, 05:25:14 PM
NY shutdown extended to May 15.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2020, 05:33:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 16, 2020, 05:25:14 PM
NY shutdown extended to May 15.

Was it not sorted by Easter? Trump has said that it will all be sorted by Easter, silly me, next Easter!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Emmett on April 16, 2020, 05:37:33 PM
I haven't been on here in a while but would like some advice if someone could be so kind.

A friend of mine works in Belfast but has been working from home at her parents in Fermanagh.

Today she received word that as of next week she has to return to the office and start working from there again. They are staggering workers back to the office.

She has very bad asthma and suffers with anxiety.

Can they enforce this given the UK governments stance of if you can work from home you must?

She does not feel comfortable with this plan whatsoever!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2020, 05:43:14 PM
Quote from: Emmett on April 16, 2020, 05:37:33 PM
I haven't been on here in a while but would like some advice if someone could be so kind.

A friend of mine works in Belfast but has been working from home at her parents in Fermanagh.

Today she received word that as of next week she has to return to the office and start working from there again. They are staggering workers back to the office.

She has very bad asthma and suffers with anxiety.

Can they enforce this given the UK governments stance of if you can work from home you must?

She does not feel comfortable with this plan whatsoever!

Once those companies are named and shamed on Social Media they might back down, but I thought the call from the government was work from home if you can... Strange one
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on April 16, 2020, 06:33:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 16, 2020, 04:46:16 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 16, 2020, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 16, 2020, 04:09:35 PM
Not verified but there is a screenshot of a letter doing the rounds that pubs will not be allowed to open until 1st Sept at the earliest

I got a whatsapp this morning saying something like bars were to open in June 01st, some doctor or something. I can't mind what the accompanying text was. Pinch of salt stuff. Does the rounds on whatsapp generally false.

They'll have to wait till Karen on facebook gives the OK

They won't need Karen from Facebook to tell , mannions, Durcans, creatons In ballagh , all closed for good now with rumours of another two also thinking about folding .

This covid19 could quite possibly be the final nail in the coffin of rural towns in the west .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 16, 2020, 06:49:33 PM
A short sharp kill rather than the long drawn out one that's been underway for the last 20 or more years? :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 16, 2020, 07:03:10 PM
61 more deaths have been notified on the island of Ireland in the past day. The highest daily death toll so far.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: shantygael on April 16, 2020, 07:07:47 PM
Just saw an "official" government letter regarding pubs opening,the 1st September  is the date at the minute ,no earlier.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on April 16, 2020, 07:14:25 PM
Quote from: shantygael on April 16, 2020, 07:07:47 PM
Just saw an "official" government letter regarding pubs opening,the 1st September  is the date at the minute ,no earlier.

This letter?

https://mobile.twitter.com/newschambers/status/1250841549082169346
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 16, 2020, 07:26:45 PM
Dr Holohan isn't in the Deoartment of the Taoiseach.
Even Karen from facebook knows that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on April 16, 2020, 07:27:40 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 16, 2020, 06:33:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 16, 2020, 04:46:16 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 16, 2020, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 16, 2020, 04:09:35 PM
Not verified but there is a screenshot of a letter doing the rounds that pubs will not be allowed to open until 1st Sept at the earliest

I got a whatsapp this morning saying something like bars were to open in June 01st, some doctor or something. I can't mind what the accompanying text was. Pinch of salt stuff. Does the rounds on whatsapp generally false.

They'll have to wait till Karen on facebook gives the OK

They won't need Karen from Facebook to tell , mannions, Durcans, creatons In ballagh , all closed for good now with rumours of another two also thinking about folding .

This covid19 could quite possibly be the final nail in the coffin of rural towns in the west .

Perhaps for many of the current businesses in the short term but if working from home becomes mainstream in the medium term, it opens up the possibility of moving out of the cities for lots of people which could help reinvigorate rural areas to some extent
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 16, 2020, 08:08:48 PM
Another 43 in the 26 counties and 18 in hospital in the North (and likely several more not counted). This could be worse, but is still very significant. They really failed in the nursing homes.

Quote from: macdanger2 on April 16, 2020, 07:27:40 PM
Perhaps for many of the current businesses in the short term but if working from home becomes mainstream in the medium term, it opens up the possibility of moving out of the cities for lots of people which could help reinvigorate rural areas to some extent

They'll need a lot more fibre optic draped on poles to ensure good broadband.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aaron Boone on April 16, 2020, 08:11:06 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 16, 2020, 07:14:25 PM
Quote from: shantygael on April 16, 2020, 07:07:47 PM
Just saw an "official" government letter regarding pubs opening,the 1st September  is the date at the minute ,no earlier.

This letter?

https://mobile.twitter.com/newschambers/status/1250841549082169346
Be potential for public order issues the day of the reopening. Men with drink in them from late morning.

Could try a 7pm opening the first night, close at 11pm, to let the steam off.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dec on April 16, 2020, 08:43:09 PM
Number of deaths continues to drop in NY, down to 600, lowest in 10 days but still a huge number

NYC deaths in last 24hrs is 438
The normal death rate per day in New York City is under 200

So covid deaths are more than twice as much as all other deaths put together.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 16, 2020, 08:44:25 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on April 16, 2020, 08:11:06 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 16, 2020, 07:14:25 PM
Quote from: shantygael on April 16, 2020, 07:07:47 PM
Just saw an "official" government letter regarding pubs opening,the 1st September  is the date at the minute ,no earlier.

This letter?

https://mobile.twitter.com/newschambers/status/1250841549082169346
Be potential for public order issues the day of the reopening. Men with drink in them from late morning.

Could try a 7pm opening the first night, close at 11pm, to let the steam off.

I think the solution for overcrowding is to only allow men into shops for the first week and likewise only allow women into pubs for the first week.

Quote from: dec on April 16, 2020, 08:43:09 PM
Number of deaths continues to drop in NY, down to 600, lowest in 10 days but still a huge number

NYC deaths in last 24hrs is 438
The normal death rate per day in New York City is under 200

So covid deaths are more than twice as much as all other deaths put together.

And that is only the ones they count.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: weareros on April 16, 2020, 08:48:13 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 16, 2020, 06:33:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 16, 2020, 04:46:16 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 16, 2020, 04:31:56 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 16, 2020, 04:09:35 PM
Not verified but there is a screenshot of a letter doing the rounds that pubs will not be allowed to open until 1st Sept at the earliest

I got a whatsapp this morning saying something like bars were to open in June 01st, some doctor or something. I can't mind what the accompanying text was. Pinch of salt stuff. Does the rounds on whatsapp generally false.

They'll have to wait till Karen on facebook gives the OK

They won't need Karen from Facebook to tell , mannions, Durcans, creatons In ballagh , all closed for good now with rumours of another two also thinking about folding .

This covid19 could quite possibly be the final nail in the coffin of rural towns in the west .

Had heard similar. Would finish the town. Durkin's would be a huge loss to town.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 16, 2020, 08:54:09 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on April 16, 2020, 08:11:06 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 16, 2020, 07:14:25 PM
Quote from: shantygael on April 16, 2020, 07:07:47 PM
Just saw an "official" government letter regarding pubs opening,the 1st September  is the date at the minute ,no earlier.

This letter?

https://mobile.twitter.com/newschambers/status/1250841549082169346
Be potential for public order issues the day of the reopening. Men with drink in them from late morning.

Could try a 7pm opening the first night, close at 11pm, to let the steam off.

Would lads not have enough drink in them this past month? Drinking in the house on a regular basis.  Offies flat out by all appearances.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on April 16, 2020, 10:09:19 PM
Quote from: Emmett on April 16, 2020, 05:37:33 PM
I haven't been on here in a while but would like some advice if someone could be so kind.

A friend of mine works in Belfast but has been working from home at her parents in Fermanagh.

Today she received word that as of next week she has to return to the office and start working from there again. They are staggering workers back to the office.

She has very bad asthma and suffers with anxiety.

Can they enforce this given the UK governments stance of if you can work from home you must?

She does not feel comfortable with this plan whatsoever!

If she can do her work from home then she should continue to work from him.
But if, for example, she worked in manufacturing then her employer could make her go into work.
According to government guidance manufacturing should still be continuing in the UK, where social distance should be maintained as much as possible, but if it can't be then other precautions should be put in place.  These instructions are here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/social-distancing-in-the-workplace-during-coronavirus-covid-19-sector-guidance#manufacturing-and-processing-businesses
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on April 16, 2020, 10:14:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2020, 05:43:14 PM
Quote from: Emmett on April 16, 2020, 05:37:33 PM
I haven't been on here in a while but would like some advice if someone could be so kind.

A friend of mine works in Belfast but has been working from home at her parents in Fermanagh.

Today she received word that as of next week she has to return to the office and start working from there again. They are staggering workers back to the office.

She has very bad asthma and suffers with anxiety.

Can they enforce this given the UK governments stance of if you can work from home you must?

She does not feel comfortable with this plan whatsoever!

Once those companies are named and shamed on Social Media they might back down, but I thought the call from the government was work from home if you can... Strange one

If companies are working within the guidance (see my previous post) then why would they be named and shamed.  Keeping businesses closed for a long time is only going to jeopardise those businesses remaining viable.  Not sure why anyone would like that to happen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: shantygael on April 16, 2020, 10:15:00 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 16, 2020, 07:14:25 PM
Quote from: shantygael on April 16, 2020, 07:07:47 PM
Just saw an "official" government letter regarding pubs opening,the 1st September  is the date at the minute ,no earlier.

This letter?

https://mobile.twitter.com/newschambers/status/1250841549082169346
Yip,that's why I have official in inverted commas
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 16, 2020, 10:18:36 PM
Mental stuff
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-52316150
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on April 16, 2020, 10:26:41 PM
Few crazies in charge of a few countries these days....#understatement
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2020, 10:31:10 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 16, 2020, 10:14:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2020, 05:43:14 PM
Quote from: Emmett on April 16, 2020, 05:37:33 PM
I haven't been on here in a while but would like some advice if someone could be so kind.

A friend of mine works in Belfast but has been working from home at her parents in Fermanagh.

Today she received word that as of next week she has to return to the office and start working from there again. They are staggering workers back to the office.

She has very bad asthma and suffers with anxiety.

Can they enforce this given the UK governments stance of if you can work from home you must?

She does not feel comfortable with this plan whatsoever!

Once those companies are named and shamed on Social Media they might back down, but I thought the call from the government was work from home if you can... Strange one

If companies are working within the guidance (see my previous post) then why would they be named and shamed.  Keeping businesses closed for a long time is only going to jeopardise those businesses remaining viable.  Not sure why anyone would like that to happen.

It's not closed and if you can do the job from home why go into an office?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 16, 2020, 11:03:31 PM
Quote from: Emmett on April 16, 2020, 05:37:33 PM
I haven't been on here in a while but would like some advice if someone could be so kind.

A friend of mine works in Belfast but has been working from home at her parents in Fermanagh.

Today she received word that as of next week she has to return to the office and start working from there again. They are staggering workers back to the office.

She has very bad asthma and suffers with anxiety.

Can they enforce this given the UK governments stance of if you can work from home you must?

She does not feel comfortable with this plan whatsoever!

I'd chat to a lawyer if I were you. I can't remember which act it is (Either the Employment Protection Consolidation Act or the Health and Safety at Work Act) that says you don't have to do anything that might cause an injury. We have similar laws here in California. I was about to ring a lawyer when my wife's employer came close to demanding that she go into the office to do work that could just as easily have been done remotely. She works in a public agency which is deemed an "essential service" but that still doesn't mean she can be forced against her will to do something that might put herself or members of her household in danger. And it's illegal to retaliate against her for refusing to do anything dangerous. I'd imagine there are similar protections in UK law.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 16, 2020, 11:44:33 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 16, 2020, 10:09:19 PM
Quote from: Emmett on April 16, 2020, 05:37:33 PM
I haven't been on here in a while but would like some advice if someone could be so kind.

A friend of mine works in Belfast but has been working from home at her parents in Fermanagh.

Today she received word that as of next week she has to return to the office and start working from there again. They are staggering workers back to the office.

She has very bad asthma and suffers with anxiety.

Can they enforce this given the UK governments stance of if you can work from home you must?

She does not feel comfortable with this plan whatsoever!

If she can do her work from home then she should continue to work from him.
But if, for example, she worked in manufacturing then her employer could make her go into work.
According to government guidance manufacturing should still be continuing in the UK, where social distance should be maintained as much as possible, but if it can't be then other precautions should be put in place.  These instructions are here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/social-distancing-in-the-workplace-during-coronavirus-covid-19-sector-guidance#manufacturing-and-processing-businesses

It is down to the company to determine if she can work from home and do her job to same level.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2020, 12:02:51 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 16, 2020, 11:44:33 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 16, 2020, 10:09:19 PM
Quote from: Emmett on April 16, 2020, 05:37:33 PM
I haven't been on here in a while but would like some advice if someone could be so kind.

A friend of mine works in Belfast but has been working from home at her parents in Fermanagh.

Today she received word that as of next week she has to return to the office and start working from there again. They are staggering workers back to the office.

She has very bad asthma and suffers with anxiety.

Can they enforce this given the UK governments stance of if you can work from home you must?

She does not feel comfortable with this plan whatsoever!

If she can do her work from home then she should continue to work from him.
But if, for example, she worked in manufacturing then her employer could make her go into work.
According to government guidance manufacturing should still be continuing in the UK, where social distance should be maintained as much as possible, but if it can't be then other precautions should be put in place.  These instructions are here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/social-distancing-in-the-workplace-during-coronavirus-covid-19-sector-guidance#manufacturing-and-processing-businesses

It is down to the company to determine if she can work from home and do her job to same level.

So if you can prove the job is done correctly at home then you should be allowed.

Automatically you are then putting more people on the roads, interacting with shops, petrol stations buses or trains, more risk of poor social distancing measures.

Why not stick it out? Seems to be going against what the 'experts' are saying
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on April 17, 2020, 12:15:33 AM
Was on Facebook and I've seen the light now... Bill Gates has done this so he can make the vaccine and the microchip us all so he controls the world.

PLANdemic!

Don't be a sheep... the truth is out there!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on April 17, 2020, 12:22:33 AM
Yeah i went down that rabbit hole one eve, ended it with the discovery that Hilary C ate a child few yrs back theres videos and all....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 17, 2020, 12:28:05 AM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 17, 2020, 12:22:33 AM
Yeah i went down that rabbit hole one eve, ended it with the discovery that Hilary C ate a child few yrs back theres videos and all....

Janey mac, you'd think the likes of her would be vegetarian!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 17, 2020, 12:29:07 AM
Gates must be some man to convince the Chinese to pretend there's a new virus, to convince the Italians that loads of them have caught it and died from it, likewise the Spanish and French.
Trump and Bozo initially saw through his plan but he obviously bribed both of them to come on board and bring in lockdowns etc.
But luckily Gemma and John Waters have seen through it all and the Irish Courts will put a stop to the dastardly plan.

Dumb and Dumberer.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on April 17, 2020, 12:49:26 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 17, 2020, 12:28:05 AM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 17, 2020, 12:22:33 AM
Yeah i went down that rabbit hole one eve, ended it with the discovery that Hilary C ate a child few yrs back theres videos and all....

Janey mac, you'd think the likes of her would be vegetarian!

Lol. I followed them for the craic so will report back as things develop. Ps theres no actual covid its just a ruse to allow donald to be the hero as he smashes the biggest paedo ring in the world with thousands of children being released...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 01:10:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2020, 12:02:51 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 16, 2020, 11:44:33 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 16, 2020, 10:09:19 PM
Quote from: Emmett on April 16, 2020, 05:37:33 PM
I haven't been on here in a while but would like some advice if someone could be so kind.

A friend of mine works in Belfast but has been working from home at her parents in Fermanagh.

Today she received word that as of next week she has to return to the office and start working from there again. They are staggering workers back to the office.

She has very bad asthma and suffers with anxiety.

Can they enforce this given the UK governments stance of if you can work from home you must?

She does not feel comfortable with this plan whatsoever!

If she can do her work from home then she should continue to work from him.
But if, for example, she worked in manufacturing then her employer could make her go into work.
According to government guidance manufacturing should still be continuing in the UK, where social distance should be maintained as much as possible, but if it can't be then other precautions should be put in place.  These instructions are here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/social-distancing-in-the-workplace-during-coronavirus-covid-19-sector-guidance#manufacturing-and-processing-businesses

It is down to the company to determine if she can work from home and do her job to same level.

So if you can prove the job is done correctly at home then you should be allowed.

Automatically you are then putting more people on the roads, interacting with shops, petrol stations buses or trains, more risk of poor social distancing measures.

Why not stick it out? Seems to be going against what the 'experts' are saying

Saw a good one today. "I was falling quickly but the parachute has slowed my descent and I haven't fallen to my death yet. That must mean it's time to take it off."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 01:17:21 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 16, 2020, 10:18:36 PM
Mental stuff
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-52316150

I met a Bolsonaro supporter at a party a few years back. She was as mad as a box of frogs. You thought Trump supporters were as thick as champ? I asked her what good she thought Bolsonaro was going to do.

Her: You don't know what it's like in the favelas! People are getting shot! People are getting murdered!
Me: Okay, but what's Bolsonaro going to go about it?
Her: He's going to fix it!
Me: How's he going to do that? By shooting more people?
Her: You don't know what it's like!
Me: How's he going to fix it?
Her: Brazil needs a strong leader like Bolsonaro! He's going to fix things! You don't know what it's like! You have no idea!
Me: So was Pinochet good for Chile?
Her: Huh?
Me: Was Pinochet good for Chile?
Her: No
Me: Was Galtieri good for Argentina?
Her: No
Me: When has a dictator ever been good for South America?
Her: This is different!
Me: How?
Her: This time it's going to be different! Bolsonaro is going to fix everything! We need a strong leader! You don't know what it's like in the favelas! People are getting shot every day! Children getting shot! You have no idea what it's like! Bolsonaro is going to deal with it! We need him!
Me: Yes, quite. I need to go for another drink...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 17, 2020, 06:18:34 AM
https://www.minghella.com/eleven-days-in-march/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 06:38:06 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 17, 2020, 06:18:34 AM
https://www.minghella.com/eleven-days-in-march/

"I probably spread my infection to others using the post office, the pen at the pharmacy, the keypad at the little Tesco's. I made them ill. I had no idea, of course. No symptoms at all. But I may have killed people. Let's be honest, almost certainly I infected people, who infected others, who infected still more... and "my" viral spreading will have cost some people their lives. Some families their loved ones."

It happened in Italy and the rest of the world had plenty of warning. There's no excuse for any failure to act.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 17, 2020, 08:08:22 AM
Liverpool to Dublin ferry looks to not be running and some controversy round it. That is not good for any of us I suspect. Apparently p and o I think it is owe 600k to the Liverpool port and haven't paid it so can't sail out.

I am not sure if Eamonn your first paragraph is related to your second above...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 17, 2020, 08:20:57 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2020, 10:31:10 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 16, 2020, 10:14:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 16, 2020, 05:43:14 PM
Quote from: Emmett on April 16, 2020, 05:37:33 PM
I haven't been on here in a while but would like some advice if someone could be so kind.

A friend of mine works in Belfast but has been working from home at her parents in Fermanagh.

Today she received word that as of next week she has to return to the office and start working from there again. They are staggering workers back to the office.

She has very bad asthma and suffers with anxiety.

Can they enforce this given the UK governments stance of if you can work from home you must?

She does not feel comfortable with this plan whatsoever!

Once those companies are named and shamed on Social Media they might back down, but I thought the call from the government was work from home if you can... Strange one

If companies are working within the guidance (see my previous post) then why would they be named and shamed.  Keeping businesses closed for a long time is only going to jeopardise those businesses remaining viable.  Not sure why anyone would like that to happen.

It's not closed and if you can do the job from home why go into an office?

If she's self isolating due to her health conditions making her at risk then the company has to either allow her to work from home if that's possible or furlough her on 80% of her salary.
She should get her doctor to write a letter and give her company the options above.
When she's in furlough she's not meant to be working for them so they might allow her to work from home if they still require her.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2020, 08:22:16 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 17, 2020, 08:08:22 AM
Liverpool to Dublin ferry looks to not be running and some controversy round it. That is not good for any of us I suspect. Apparently p and o I think it is owe 600k to the Liverpool port and haven't paid it so can't sail out.

I am not sure if Eamonn your first paragraph is related to your second above...

See ferries coming into Belfast daily. Would it not be mainly goods vehicles?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 17, 2020, 08:25:56 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 01:17:21 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 16, 2020, 10:18:36 PM
Mental stuff
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-52316150

I met a Bolsonaro supporter at a party a few years back. She was as mad as a box of frogs. You thought Trump supporters were as thick as champ? I asked her what good she thought Bolsonaro was going to do.

Her: You don't know what it's like in the favelas! People are getting shot! People are getting murdered!
Me: Okay, but what's Bolsonaro going to go about it?
Her: He's going to fix it!
Me: How's he going to do that? By shooting more people?
Her: You don't know what it's like!
Me: How's he going to fix it?
Her: Brazil needs a strong leader like Bolsonaro! He's going to fix things! You don't know what it's like! You have no idea!
Me: So was Pinochet good for Chile?
Her: Huh?
Me: Was Pinochet good for Chile?
Her: No
Me: Was Galtieri good for Argentina?
Her: No
Me: When has a dictator ever been good for South America?
Her: This is different!
Me: How?
Her: This time it's going to be different! Bolsonaro is going to fix everything! We need a strong leader! You don't know what it's like in the favelas! People are getting shot every day! Children getting shot! You have no idea what it's like! Bolsonaro is going to deal with it! We need him!
Me: Yes, quite. I need to go for another drink...

You made that up Eamonn didnt you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 17, 2020, 08:39:05 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2020, 08:22:16 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 17, 2020, 08:08:22 AM
Liverpool to Dublin ferry looks to not be running and some controversy round it. That is not good for any of us I suspect. Apparently p and o I think it is owe 600k to the Liverpool port and haven't paid it so can't sail out.

I am not sure if Eamonn your first paragraph is related to your second above...

See ferries coming into Belfast daily. Would it not be mainly goods vehicles?

I assume so. Lots of commotion on social media about it. One side was told painting the liverpool port in a very bad light and then their side came out and it didn't look so good for the other one so who knows what is going on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 17, 2020, 08:49:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2020, 12:02:51 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 16, 2020, 11:44:33 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 16, 2020, 10:09:19 PM
Quote from: Emmett on April 16, 2020, 05:37:33 PM
I haven't been on here in a while but would like some advice if someone could be so kind.

A friend of mine works in Belfast but has been working from home at her parents in Fermanagh.

Today she received word that as of next week she has to return to the office and start working from there again. They are staggering workers back to the office.

She has very bad asthma and suffers with anxiety.

Can they enforce this given the UK governments stance of if you can work from home you must?

She does not feel comfortable with this plan whatsoever!

If she can do her work from home then she should continue to work from him.
But if, for example, she worked in manufacturing then her employer could make her go into work.
According to government guidance manufacturing should still be continuing in the UK, where social distance should be maintained as much as possible, but if it can't be then other precautions should be put in place.  These instructions are here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/social-distancing-in-the-workplace-during-coronavirus-covid-19-sector-guidance#manufacturing-and-processing-businesses

It is down to the company to determine if she can work from home and do her job to same level.

So if you can prove the job is done correctly at home then you should be allowed.

Automatically you are then putting more people on the roads, interacting with shops, petrol stations buses or trains, more risk of poor social distancing measures.

Why not stick it out? Seems to be going against what the 'experts' are saying

First of all, if her company is still open then it "should" be a critical company of some sort - that is my assumption.

Secondly, I work in such a company where we let loads of people go home to work from home at the start of this crisis. Some proved to be equally effective and some proved to be at home having a doss leaving the rest of the work force to carry the can for them.

So the company makes the judgement call on whether someone can do their job from home based on the results they see from that person being at home (and I am excluding people who are in the high risk bracket who should simply not be at work). In our case we told some people to come back in. In some cases we had to force people to work from home that decided themselves to keep coming in.

This decision is not the decision of the individual worker and, by the way, it is in the companies interest to get this right. No sensible company wants those people that can genuinely work from home, coming in and causing crowding that in turn could cause a spread of Covid 19 which in turn will mean lots of people out of work for 14 days minimum.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 17, 2020, 09:10:48 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 17, 2020, 08:39:05 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2020, 08:22:16 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 17, 2020, 08:08:22 AM
Liverpool to Dublin ferry looks to not be running and some controversy round it. That is not good for any of us I suspect. Apparently p and o I think it is owe 600k to the Liverpool port and haven't paid it so can't sail out.

I am not sure if Eamonn your first paragraph is related to your second above...

See ferries coming into Belfast daily. Would it not be mainly goods vehicles?

I assume so. Lots of commotion on social media about it. One side was told painting the liverpool port in a very bad light and then their side came out and it didn't look so good for the other one so who knows what is going on.

Hopefully they get it sorted asap to get vital supplies in.  Not sure what the story is or what side is right but I suppose that's one way of getting £600k - just say boat with vital supplies is not going anywhere until it's paid.

As I say, needs sorted asap.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 17, 2020, 09:13:56 AM
They have said they have the money so if they have it they should just pay it and that would be that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on April 17, 2020, 09:17:31 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 01:17:21 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 16, 2020, 10:18:36 PM
Mental stuff
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-52316150

I met a Bolsonaro supporter at a party a few years back. She was as mad as a box of frogs. You thought Trump supporters were as thick as champ? I asked her what good she thought Bolsonaro was going to do.

Her: You don't know what it's like in the favelas! People are getting shot! People are getting murdered!
Me: Okay, but what's Bolsonaro going to go about it?
Her: He's going to fix it!
Me: How's he going to do that? By shooting more people?
Her: You don't know what it's like!
Me: How's he going to fix it?
Her: Brazil needs a strong leader like Bolsonaro! He's going to fix things! You don't know what it's like! You have no idea!
Me: So was Pinochet good for Chile?
Her: Huh?
Me: Was Pinochet good for Chile?
Her: No
Me: Was Galtieri good for Argentina?
Her: No
Me: When has a dictator ever been good for South America?
Her: This is different!
Me: How?
Her: This time it's going to be different! Bolsonaro is going to fix everything! We need a strong leader! You don't know what it's like in the favelas! People are getting shot every day! Children getting shot! You have no idea what it's like! Bolsonaro is going to deal with it! We need him!
Me: Yes, quite. I need to go for another drink...

;D Enjoyed that!

Sounds like a conversation with your run of the mill Brexiteer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on April 17, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
Keelings chartering a flight from Bulgaria for fruit pickers. . . is there any truth to that??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 17, 2020, 09:24:29 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 17, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
Keelings chartering a flight from Bulgaria for fruit pickers. . . is there any truth to that??

That looks true, shocking stuff. No more Keelings for me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 17, 2020, 09:25:04 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 17, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
Keelings chartering a flight from Bulgaria for fruit pickers. . . is there any truth to that??

Fruit Farms in England doing same.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 17, 2020, 09:47:12 AM
What was the craic on London bridge last night - any of you see the video with everyone standing around clapping with no social distancing and even worse, the police standing there joining in / not enforcing social distancing?

Is it social distancing except for the clap on a Thursday night or what? Mad stuff altogether.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 17, 2020, 09:54:39 AM
What's the issue with Keelings guys? That they want to get their crops picked?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on April 17, 2020, 09:55:48 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 17, 2020, 08:49:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2020, 12:02:51 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 16, 2020, 11:44:33 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 16, 2020, 10:09:19 PM
Quote from: Emmett on April 16, 2020, 05:37:33 PM
I haven't been on here in a while but would like some advice if someone could be so kind.

A friend of mine works in Belfast but has been working from home at her parents in Fermanagh.

Today she received word that as of next week she has to return to the office and start working from there again. They are staggering workers back to the office.

She has very bad asthma and suffers with anxiety.

Can they enforce this given the UK governments stance of if you can work from home you must?

She does not feel comfortable with this plan whatsoever!

If she can do her work from home then she should continue to work from him.
But if, for example, she worked in manufacturing then her employer could make her go into work.
According to government guidance manufacturing should still be continuing in the UK, where social distance should be maintained as much as possible, but if it can't be then other precautions should be put in place.  These instructions are here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/social-distancing-in-the-workplace-during-coronavirus-covid-19-sector-guidance#manufacturing-and-processing-businesses

It is down to the company to determine if she can work from home and do her job to same level.

So if you can prove the job is done correctly at home then you should be allowed.

Automatically you are then putting more people on the roads, interacting with shops, petrol stations buses or trains, more risk of poor social distancing measures.

Why not stick it out? Seems to be going against what the 'experts' are saying

First of all, if her company is still open then it "should" be a critical company of some sort - that is my assumption.


I'm sorry Itchy, but this is just not correct.  Read the Manufacturing section of this for example: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/social-distancing-in-the-workplace-during-coronavirus-covid-19-sector-guidance
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 17, 2020, 10:40:33 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 17, 2020, 09:55:48 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 17, 2020, 08:49:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2020, 12:02:51 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 16, 2020, 11:44:33 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 16, 2020, 10:09:19 PM
Quote from: Emmett on April 16, 2020, 05:37:33 PM
I haven't been on here in a while but would like some advice if someone could be so kind.

A friend of mine works in Belfast but has been working from home at her parents in Fermanagh.

Today she received word that as of next week she has to return to the office and start working from there again. They are staggering workers back to the office.

She has very bad asthma and suffers with anxiety.

Can they enforce this given the UK governments stance of if you can work from home you must?

She does not feel comfortable with this plan whatsoever!

If she can do her work from home then she should continue to work from him.
But if, for example, she worked in manufacturing then her employer could make her go into work.
According to government guidance manufacturing should still be continuing in the UK, where social distance should be maintained as much as possible, but if it can't be then other precautions should be put in place.  These instructions are here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/social-distancing-in-the-workplace-during-coronavirus-covid-19-sector-guidance#manufacturing-and-processing-businesses

It is down to the company to determine if she can work from home and do her job to same level.

So if you can prove the job is done correctly at home then you should be allowed.

Automatically you are then putting more people on the roads, interacting with shops, petrol stations buses or trains, more risk of poor social distancing measures.

Why not stick it out? Seems to be going against what the 'experts' are saying

First of all, if her company is still open then it "should" be a critical company of some sort - that is my assumption.


I'm sorry Itchy, but this is just not correct.  Read the Manufacturing section of this for example: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/social-distancing-in-the-workplace-during-coronavirus-covid-19-sector-guidance

I'm not in the UK
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ciaraa on April 17, 2020, 11:00:32 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 17, 2020, 10:40:33 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 17, 2020, 09:55:48 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 17, 2020, 08:49:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2020, 12:02:51 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 16, 2020, 11:44:33 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 16, 2020, 10:09:19 PM
Quote from: Emmett on April 16, 2020, 05:37:33 PM
I haven't been on here in a while but would like some advice if someone could be so kind.

A friend of mine works in Belfast but has been working from home at her parents in Fermanagh.

Today she received word that as of next week she has to return to the office and start working from there again. They are staggering workers back to the office.

She has very bad asthma and suffers with anxiety.

Can they enforce this given the UK governments stance of if you can work from home you must?

She does not feel comfortable with this plan whatsoever!

If she can do her work from home then she should continue to work from him.
But if, for example, she worked in manufacturing then her employer could make her go into work.
According to government guidance manufacturing should still be continuing in the UK, where social distance should be maintained as much as possible, but if it can't be then other precautions should be put in place.  These instructions are here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/social-distancing-in-the-workplace-during-coronavirus-covid-19-sector-guidance#manufacturing-and-processing-businesses

It is down to the company to determine if she can work from home and do her job to same level.

So if you can prove the job is done correctly at home then you should be allowed.

Automatically you are then putting more people on the roads, interacting with shops, petrol stations buses or trains, more risk of poor social distancing measures.

Why not stick it out? Seems to be going against what the 'experts' are saying

First of all, if her company is still open then it "should" be a critical company of some sort - that is my assumption.


I'm sorry Itchy, but this is just not correct.  Read the Manufacturing section of this for example: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/social-distancing-in-the-workplace-during-coronavirus-covid-19-sector-guidance

I'm not in the UK

You're not the brightest either
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2020, 11:30:09 AM
The lad said Belfast and Fermanagh. Would imagine though any company would prefer you staying safe and if they feel you are not working enough then go through the disciplinary procedures
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 17, 2020, 09:24:29 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 17, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
Keelings chartering a flight from Bulgaria for fruit pickers. . . is there any truth to that??

That looks true, shocking stuff. No more Keelings for me.

Whys it shocking?

The locals have neither the appetite or attitude for it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 17, 2020, 11:45:15 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 17, 2020, 09:24:29 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 17, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
Keelings chartering a flight from Bulgaria for fruit pickers. . . is there any truth to that??

That looks true, shocking stuff. No more Keelings for me.

Whys it shocking?

The locals have neither the appetite or attitude for it.

It's shocking because its obvious, from the video of their arrival at the airport, that the people whom they hired never even heard of social distancing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on April 17, 2020, 11:47:37 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 17, 2020, 09:24:29 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 17, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
Keelings chartering a flight from Bulgaria for fruit pickers. . . is there any truth to that??

That looks true, shocking stuff. No more Keelings for me.

Whys it shocking?

I'll do it , I live a few miles down the road . And like I've told them in an email I'll also get them 100 able bodied men for the morning .

The locals have neither the appetite or attitude for it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 17, 2020, 11:50:12 AM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-jailed-after-driving-450km-to-buy-puppies-39134852.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 17, 2020, 11:56:11 AM
Quote from: five points on April 17, 2020, 11:45:15 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 17, 2020, 09:24:29 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 17, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
Keelings chartering a flight from Bulgaria for fruit pickers. . . is there any truth to that??

That looks true, shocking stuff. No more Keelings for me.

Whys it shocking?

The locals have neither the appetite or attitude for it.

It's shocking because its obvious, from the video of their arrival at the airport, that the people whom they hired never even heard of social distancing.

Hmmm, I was under the impression they had to do 14 days like our Doctors and Nurses coming home from Oz for example?

There just seems to be a pick and choose approach to certain things.

Maybe they are doing the 14 days. I don't know the ins and outs but if this is true, they are here to pick the fruit, one suspects they'll be straight to it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 17, 2020, 12:09:10 PM
Another 48 to be added to the NI Death total now that the care homes etc are being added and that's a week behind;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52322933 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52322933)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 12:15:59 PM
Quote from: five points on April 17, 2020, 11:45:15 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 17, 2020, 09:24:29 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 17, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
Keelings chartering a flight from Bulgaria for fruit pickers. . . is there any truth to that??

That looks true, shocking stuff. No more Keelings for me.

Whys it shocking?

The locals have neither the appetite or attitude for it.

It's shocking because its obvious, from the video of their arrival at the airport, that the people whom they hired never even heard of social distancing.

Yes, because 3-4 hours in a plane* is healthy social distancing.... not to mention the buses/trains they got to the airport in Bulgaria.

The bigger problem is - there is no viable alternative. They either let the crop rot and with a lack of food on the shelves people get very antsy very quickly or they bring in labour.


Now I agree that there would need to be a strict 14day isolation for each and every one of them after arriving here - especially before being allowed to work in the food chain - and I'll bet that is not happening - due to greed.


*despite all the air cycling via HEPA filters that goes on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 17, 2020, 12:18:48 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 17, 2020, 12:09:10 PM
Another 48 to be added to the NI Death total now that the care homes etc are being added and that's a week behind;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52322933 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52322933)

300 of the 486 Covid deaths in the south from care-homes?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 17, 2020, 12:33:22 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 17, 2020, 12:18:48 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 17, 2020, 12:09:10 PM
Another 48 to be added to the NI Death total now that the care homes etc are being added and that's a week behind;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52322933 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52322933)

300 of the 486 Covid deaths in the south from care-homes?

We haven't a Covid problem. We have a dirty hospitals and nursing homes problem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on April 17, 2020, 12:59:16 PM
"The bigger problem is - there is no viable alternative. They either let the crop rot and with a lack of food on the shelves people get very antsy very quickly or they bring in labour."

Or they pay a decent living wage for Dublin that wouldn't even put a significant dent in their massive profits but hey ho no , they're a fg company in bed with senior fg figures . Why are people afraid of the genuine truth , keelings epitomise all that's wrong with capitalism/globalism . I really thought this horrible pandemic would open people's eyes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 17, 2020, 01:07:59 PM
And will Paddy pay top dollar for his fruit, veg and other food in the supermarket?
And will he pay for a better public health service and public nursing homes?
Asking for a friend.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 17, 2020, 01:20:45 PM
Quote from: five points on April 17, 2020, 12:33:22 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 17, 2020, 12:18:48 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 17, 2020, 12:09:10 PM
Another 48 to be added to the NI Death total now that the care homes etc are being added and that's a week behind;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52322933 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52322933)

300 of the 486 Covid deaths in the south from care-homes?

We haven't a Covid problem. We have a dirty hospitals and nursing homes problem.

Would tend to agree with this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 17, 2020, 01:35:39 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 17, 2020, 11:56:11 AM
Quote from: five points on April 17, 2020, 11:45:15 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 17, 2020, 09:24:29 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 17, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
Keelings chartering a flight from Bulgaria for fruit pickers. . . is there any truth to that??

That looks true, shocking stuff. No more Keelings for me.

Whys it shocking?

The locals have neither the appetite or attitude for it.

It's shocking because its obvious, from the video of their arrival at the airport, that the people whom they hired never even heard of social distancing.

Hmmm, I was under the impression they had to do 14 days like our Doctors and Nurses coming home from Oz for example?

There just seems to be a pick and choose approach to certain things.

Maybe they are doing the 14 days. I don't know the ins and outs but if this is true, they are here to pick the fruit, one suspects they'll be straight to it.
Do Keelings provide accommodation? I would say they will be locked up there for 2 weeks with the accommodation coming out of their wages.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 17, 2020, 01:38:33 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 17, 2020, 12:59:16 PM
"The bigger problem is - there is no viable alternative. They either let the crop rot and with a lack of food on the shelves people get very antsy very quickly or they bring in labour."

Or they pay a decent living wage for Dublin that wouldn't even put a significant dent in their massive profits but hey ho no , they're a fg company in bed with senior fg figures . Why are people afraid of the genuine truth , keelings epitomise all that's wrong with capitalism/globalism . I really thought this horrible pandemic would open people's eyes
What hourly rate do you and your 100 men need?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 17, 2020, 01:39:35 PM
I'd suspect those lads will be hired by a Bulgarian contractor getting paid in Bulgaria?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 17, 2020, 01:42:02 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 17, 2020, 01:38:33 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 17, 2020, 12:59:16 PM
"The bigger problem is - there is no viable alternative. They either let the crop rot and with a lack of food on the shelves people get very antsy very quickly or they bring in labour."

Or they pay a decent living wage for Dublin that wouldn't even put a significant dent in their massive profits but hey ho no , they're a fg company in bed with senior fg figures . Why are people afraid of the genuine truth , keelings epitomise all that's wrong with capitalism/globalism . I really thought this horrible pandemic would open people's eyes
What hourly rate do you and your 100 men need?

18 euro sounds fair?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 17, 2020, 01:53:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 17, 2020, 01:39:35 PM
I'd suspect those lads will be hired by a Bulgarian contractor getting paid in Bulgaria?
No doubt, minus accommodation, food, travel and agency costs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 17, 2020, 01:57:08 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 17, 2020, 01:42:02 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 17, 2020, 01:38:33 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 17, 2020, 12:59:16 PM
"The bigger problem is - there is no viable alternative. They either let the crop rot and with a lack of food on the shelves people get very antsy very quickly or they bring in labour."

Or they pay a decent living wage for Dublin that wouldn't even put a significant dent in their massive profits but hey ho no , they're a fg company in bed with senior fg figures . Why are people afraid of the genuine truth , keelings epitomise all that's wrong with capitalism/globalism . I really thought this horrible pandemic would open people's eyes
What hourly rate do you and your 100 men need?

18 euro sounds fair?
Double the minimum wage?
Maybe the minimum wage should be doubled to pay for better public services.
The problem then will be competing with cheaper imports.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 02:51:21 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 17, 2020, 12:59:16 PM
"The bigger problem is - there is no viable alternative. They either let the crop rot and with a lack of food on the shelves people get very antsy very quickly or they bring in labour."

Or they pay a decent living wage for Dublin that wouldn't even put a significant dent in their massive profits but hey ho no , they're a fg company in bed with senior fg figures . Why are people afraid of the genuine truth , keelings epitomise all that's wrong with capitalism/globalism . I really thought this horrible pandemic would open people's eyes

All nice till you put a number or two at it.

Keelings had supposedly sales of ~€300m in 2016 while employing ~2,000 people.

Say they've a 5% profit margin (which is likely quite optimistic), that means €15m.

If each person works 1800 hours a year, that is 3.6m man-hours a year.

So that works out at a €4/hr rate rise for everyone - and in doing so wiping out all profits leaving the company deeply vulnerable to any loss of crop due to bad weather or for investment in equipment, facilities etc.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 17, 2020, 02:56:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 12:15:59 PM
Now I agree that there would need to be a strict 14day isolation for each and every one of them after arriving here - especially before being allowed to work in the food chain - and I'll bet that is not happening - due to greed.

These people will be brought in a  bus to their accommodation, they may infect each other but will have little to do with the Irish population, especially in the next two weeks.
I'm not sure this is a huge problem, the issue is that the company have organised it, there is no government supervision of any of this.
It should be possible to give these people a test in 5 days and then let them work away.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 17, 2020, 03:01:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2020, 11:30:09 AM
The lad said Belfast and Fermanagh. Would imagine though any company would prefer you staying safe and if they feel you are not working enough then go through the disciplinary procedures

Its not only about working enough, its about being effective at your job.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 17, 2020, 03:03:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 17, 2020, 02:56:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 12:15:59 PM
Now I agree that there would need to be a strict 14day isolation for each and every one of them after arriving here - especially before being allowed to work in the food chain - and I'll bet that is not happening - due to greed.

These people will be brought in a  bus to their accommodation, they may infect each other but will have little to do with the Irish population, especially in the next two weeks.
I'm not sure this is a huge problem, the issue is that the company have organised it, there is no government supervision of any of this.
It should be possible to give these people a test in 5 days and then let them work away.

Photo doing the rounds (I know...) suggesting they went shopping en route from the airport. Probably in a Lidl.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 17, 2020, 03:12:09 PM
Quote from: five points on April 17, 2020, 03:03:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 17, 2020, 02:56:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 12:15:59 PM
Now I agree that there would need to be a strict 14day isolation for each and every one of them after arriving here - especially before being allowed to work in the food chain - and I'll bet that is not happening - due to greed.

These people will be brought in a  bus to their accommodation, they may infect each other but will have little to do with the Irish population, especially in the next two weeks.
I'm not sure this is a huge problem, the issue is that the company have organised it, there is no government supervision of any of this.
It should be possible to give these people a test in 5 days and then let them work away.

Photo doing the rounds (I know...) suggesting they went shopping en route from the airport. Probably in a Lidl.

That's extremely irregular if true. But then I heard of a South Armagh woman who arrived home from New York (much worse than Bulgaria) and headed into the supermarket in Cross' immediately on arrival to get the messages. Which is why the government need to get involved. perhaps people arriving could be required to put up a €1000 deposit which is immediately forfeit if they are seen outside.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 17, 2020, 03:14:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 17, 2020, 03:12:09 PM
Quote from: five points on April 17, 2020, 03:03:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 17, 2020, 02:56:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 12:15:59 PM
Now I agree that there would need to be a strict 14day isolation for each and every one of them after arriving here - especially before being allowed to work in the food chain - and I'll bet that is not happening - due to greed.

These people will be brought in a  bus to their accommodation, they may infect each other but will have little to do with the Irish population, especially in the next two weeks.
I'm not sure this is a huge problem, the issue is that the company have organised it, there is no government supervision of any of this.
It should be possible to give these people a test in 5 days and then let them work away.

Photo doing the rounds (I know...) suggesting they went shopping en route from the airport. Probably in a Lidl.

That's extremely irregular if true. But then I heard of a South Armagh woman who arrived home from New York (much worse than Bulgaria) and headed into the supermarket in Cross' immediately on arrival to get the messages. Which is why the government need to get involved. perhaps people arriving could be required to put up a €1000 deposit which is immediately forfeit if they are seen outside.

Just not going to happen. These people aren't criminals on bail.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 17, 2020, 03:19:31 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 17, 2020, 03:14:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 17, 2020, 03:12:09 PM
Quote from: five points on April 17, 2020, 03:03:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 17, 2020, 02:56:37 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 12:15:59 PM
Now I agree that there would need to be a strict 14day isolation for each and every one of them after arriving here - especially before being allowed to work in the food chain - and I'll bet that is not happening - due to greed.

These people will be brought in a  bus to their accommodation, they may infect each other but will have little to do with the Irish population, especially in the next two weeks.
I'm not sure this is a huge problem, the issue is that the company have organised it, there is no government supervision of any of this.
It should be possible to give these people a test in 5 days and then let them work away.

Photo doing the rounds (I know...) suggesting they went shopping en route from the airport. Probably in a Lidl.

That's extremely irregular if true. But then I heard of a South Armagh woman who arrived home from New York (much worse than Bulgaria) and headed into the supermarket in Cross' immediately on arrival to get the messages. Which is why the government need to get involved. perhaps people arriving could be required to put up a €1000 deposit which is immediately forfeit if they are seen outside.

Just not going to happen. These people aren't criminals on bail.

Something will have to happen. Either go to a government quarantine, which could be a comfortable hotel or put up a deposit and do it yourself. In a couple of weeks we'll have made progress and England will still be poxed and this island needs this type of requirement.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on April 17, 2020, 04:02:24 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 17, 2020, 09:47:12 AM
What was the craic on London bridge last night - any of you see the video with everyone standing around clapping with no social distancing and even worse, the police standing there joining in / not enforcing social distancing?

Is it social distancing except for the clap on a Thursday night or what? Mad stuff altogether.

https://twitter.com/AamerAnwar/status/1251053933323304960
https://twitter.com/AamerAnwar/status/1251053935722475520

This NHS clap stuff was never really much more than a convenient distraction for the thickest in British society, lest even they start to ask uncomfortable questions about why the NHS was in such a fragile state as the beginning of this crisis.

But now it's become actively dangerous, with scores of organisations involved in a perverse competition to out do each other with the most elaborate and flashy display of 'something'. 'Something' because it's certainly no longer about appreciating NHS workers - I'd imagine that hundreds of idiots on camera phones crowding onto a bridge in the centre of the hardest hit area of the UK is the last thing any NHS worker wants to see right now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 04:16:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 17, 2020, 03:14:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 17, 2020, 03:12:09 PM

That's extremely irregular if true. But then I heard of a South Armagh woman who arrived home from New York (much worse than Bulgaria) and headed into the supermarket in Cross' immediately on arrival to get the messages. Which is why the government need to get involved. perhaps people arriving could be required to put up a €1000 deposit which is immediately forfeit if they are seen outside.

Just not going to happen. These people aren't criminals on bail.

Unfortunately some are criminally stupid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on April 17, 2020, 07:35:44 PM
Noticed BBCNI news referring to a second wave happening pretty much as fact, it would fit with the parochial, gloomy shite that they revel in, but it's not fact, a strong possibility surely but bullshit too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on April 17, 2020, 07:41:39 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 17, 2020, 07:35:44 PM
Noticed BBCNI news referring to a second wave happening pretty much as fact, it would fit with the parochial, gloomy shite that they revel in, but it's not fact, a strong possibility surely but bullshit too.
Hopefully it's not like the second wave of the Spanish flu which was the most deadly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 17, 2020, 07:46:19 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 17, 2020, 07:35:44 PM
Noticed BBCNI news referring to a second wave happening pretty much as fact, it would fit with the parochial, gloomy shite that they revel in, but it's not fact, a strong possibility surely but bullshit too.

Surely as long as the virus is out there without a vaccine, a second wave is likely, especially if things open up again after so many stay home to avoid infection?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 07:47:26 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 17, 2020, 08:25:56 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 01:17:21 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 16, 2020, 10:18:36 PM
Mental stuff
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-52316150

I met a Bolsonaro supporter at a party a few years back. She was as mad as a box of frogs. You thought Trump supporters were as thick as champ? I asked her what good she thought Bolsonaro was going to do.

Her: You don't know what it's like in the favelas! People are getting shot! People are getting murdered!
Me: Okay, but what's Bolsonaro going to go about it?
Her: He's going to fix it!
Me: How's he going to do that? By shooting more people?
Her: You don't know what it's like!
Me: How's he going to fix it?
Her: Brazil needs a strong leader like Bolsonaro! He's going to fix things! You don't know what it's like! You have no idea!
Me: So was Pinochet good for Chile?
Her: Huh?
Me: Was Pinochet good for Chile?
Her: No
Me: Was Galtieri good for Argentina?
Her: No
Me: When has a dictator ever been good for South America?
Her: This is different!
Me: How?
Her: This time it's going to be different! Bolsonaro is going to fix everything! We need a strong leader! You don't know what it's like in the favelas! People are getting shot every day! Children getting shot! You have no idea what it's like! Bolsonaro is going to deal with it! We need him!
Me: Yes, quite. I need to go for another drink...

You made that up Eamonn didnt you?

What? Why do people in here keep asking if I made stuff up? Why would I do that? I would really like to know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 17, 2020, 08:55:41 PM
Quote from: five points on April 17, 2020, 03:03:07 PM

Photo doing the rounds (I know...) suggesting they went shopping en route from the airport. Probably in a Lidl.

Apologies folks that photo I saw is fake, an old photo harvested off facebook.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157091606934061&id=743494060
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on April 17, 2020, 09:07:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 17, 2020, 07:46:19 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 17, 2020, 07:35:44 PM
Noticed BBCNI news referring to a second wave happening pretty much as fact, it would fit with the parochial, gloomy shite that they revel in, but it's not fact, a strong possibility surely but bullshit too.

Surely as long as the virus is out there without a vaccine, a second wave is likely, especially if things open up again after so many stay home to avoid infection?
Yes, likely as I've said and I agree, but reporting it as fact on the News  as when (not if) is not right. No big deal, I just thought it was shoddy reporting more than anything.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 17, 2020, 11:26:18 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 17, 2020, 09:24:29 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 17, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
Keelings chartering a flight from Bulgaria for fruit pickers. . . is there any truth to that??

That looks true, shocking stuff. No more Keelings for me.

Whys it shocking?

The locals have neither the appetite or attitude for it.

What the fuckedy moment, do I really have to explain this to our self appointed Covid expert.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 18, 2020, 10:36:34 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 17, 2020, 11:26:18 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 17, 2020, 09:24:29 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 17, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
Keelings chartering a flight from Bulgaria for fruit pickers. . . is there any truth to that??

That looks true, shocking stuff. No more Keelings for me.

Whys it shocking?

The locals have neither the appetite or attitude for it.

What the fuckedy moment, do I really have to explain this to our self appointed Covid expert.

Explain it to me then.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 18, 2020, 12:10:40 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 07:47:26 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 17, 2020, 08:25:56 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 17, 2020, 01:17:21 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 16, 2020, 10:18:36 PM
Mental stuff
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-52316150

I met a Bolsonaro supporter at a party a few years back. She was as mad as a box of frogs. You thought Trump supporters were as thick as champ? I asked her what good she thought Bolsonaro was going to do.

Her: You don't know what it's like in the favelas! People are getting shot! People are getting murdered!
Me: Okay, but what's Bolsonaro going to go about it?
Her: He's going to fix it!
Me: How's he going to do that? By shooting more people?
Her: You don't know what it's like!
Me: How's he going to fix it?
Her: Brazil needs a strong leader like Bolsonaro! He's going to fix things! You don't know what it's like! You have no idea!
Me: So was Pinochet good for Chile?
Her: Huh?
Me: Was Pinochet good for Chile?
Her: No
Me: Was Galtieri good for Argentina?
Her: No
Me: When has a dictator ever been good for South America?
Her: This is different!
Me: How?
Her: This time it's going to be different! Bolsonaro is going to fix everything! We need a strong leader! You don't know what it's like in the favelas! People are getting shot every day! Children getting shot! You have no idea what it's like! Bolsonaro is going to deal with it! We need him!
Me: Yes, quite. I need to go for another drink...

You made that up Eamonn didnt you?

What? Why do people in here keep asking if I made stuff up? Why would I do that? I would really like to know.

Did you take a dictaphone with you to the party?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 18, 2020, 12:20:26 PM
"Pay a decent wage and Irish workers will be only too happy to pick fruit and veg for Irish companies!"

Still want your punnet of strawberries for 50c though, don't you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 18, 2020, 12:41:23 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 18, 2020, 12:20:26 PM
"Pay a decent wage and Irish workers will be only too happy to pick fruit and veg for Irish companies!"

Still want your punnet of strawberries for 50c though, don't you?

Strawberries are not generally 50c though, the cost of picking would impact more on cheaper items.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on April 18, 2020, 12:44:23 PM
For a small punnet of strawberries, they are generally €3, or 2 for €5, in most supermarkets in the south. I'd guess there are 7 or 8 per punnet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 18, 2020, 12:45:51 PM
50c, 2 euro, 5 euro, whatever. The actual price is irrelevant, as you well know.

The point is that people in the West, for all they demand better wages and conditions, still want to be able to buy everything as cheap as possible. Pay a farm labourer what you pay a banker and see how many people are willing to pay for local fresh produce over imports in a supermarket.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 18, 2020, 12:46:57 PM
If they paid ppl €20 an hour the Irish man still wouldn't pick them. More work in a day off than there is in the Irishman nowadays.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 18, 2020, 01:54:06 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 17, 2020, 11:26:18 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 17, 2020, 09:24:29 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 17, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
Keelings chartering a flight from Bulgaria for fruit pickers. . . is there any truth to that??

That looks true, shocking stuff. No more Keelings for me.

Whys it shocking?

The locals have neither the appetite or attitude for it.

What the fuckedy moment, do I really have to explain this to our self appointed Covid expert.

Yes, please do explain it to me.

As part of your explanation, please include an expected impact on the price of their produce from anything you propose and a comparison of that to the cost of imported fruit/veg and with rationale for how they will continue to sell into markets.

Thanks.

---------------
I did say in another post:

QuoteThe bigger problem is - there is no viable alternative. They either let the crop rot and with a lack of food on the shelves people get very antsy very quickly or they bring in labour.

Now I agree that there would need to be a strict 14day isolation for each and every one of them after arriving here - especially before being allowed to work in the food chain - and I'll bet that is not happening - due to greed.


To be clear - I'm not a big fan of this happening - it is an obvious risk as a source of further virus carriers. But there is no viable alternative if the locals don't want to do the work for a wage the company can afford price the shopper is willing to pay.

Keelings won't be the only bunch at risk here, what proportion of the Irish food store would be at risk of rotting on the vine if they didn't get it picked? Would it mean bare shelves? Or would it have minor impact?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 18, 2020, 04:26:09 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52338304

The humanity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 18, 2020, 04:40:20 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 18, 2020, 04:26:09 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52338304

The humanity.

So she can hear Ben Fogle clapping.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 18, 2020, 06:33:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 18, 2020, 01:54:06 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 17, 2020, 11:26:18 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 17, 2020, 09:24:29 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 17, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
Keelings chartering a flight from Bulgaria for fruit pickers. . . is there any truth to that??

That looks true, shocking stuff. No more Keelings for me.

Whys it shocking?

The locals have neither the appetite or attitude for it.

What the fuckedy moment, do I really have to explain this to our self appointed Covid expert.

Yes, please do explain it to me.

As part of your explanation, please include an expected impact on the price of their produce from anything you propose and a comparison of that to the cost of imported fruit/veg and with rationale for how they will continue to sell into markets.

Thanks.

---------------
I did say in another post:

QuoteThe bigger problem is - there is no viable alternative. They either let the crop rot and with a lack of food on the shelves people get very antsy very quickly or they bring in labour.

Now I agree that there would need to be a strict 14day isolation for each and every one of them after arriving here - especially before being allowed to work in the food chain - and I'll bet that is not happening - due to greed.


To be clear - I'm not a big fan of this happening - it is an obvious risk as a source of further virus carriers. But there is no viable alternative if the locals don't want to do the work for a wage the company can afford price the shopper is willing to pay.

Keelings won't be the only bunch at risk here, what proportion of the Irish food store would be at risk of rotting on the vine if they didn't get it picked? Would it mean bare shelves? Or would it have minor impact?

Why would I explain it from a financial point of view. The country is either under lockdown or it's not. Flying people into the country with no evidence of strict pandemic protocols being adhered too is ill advised. The head of the HSE & our Taoiseach even agree
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 18, 2020, 10:03:17 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 18, 2020, 06:33:07 PM
Why would I explain it from a financial point of view. The country is either under lockdown or it's not. Flying people into the country with no evidence of strict pandemic protocols being adhered too is ill advised. The head of the HSE & our Taoiseach even agree

Then explain it from food on the table point of view.

Is it a critical loss of foodstuffs on shop shelves? If its (and I don't mean just Keelings, I mean all fruit/veg that might need to bring in labour) not a critical proportion of overall food then the govt would be better off telling them to let it rot and they'll cover expenses and the companies go without profit for the year.


[BTW - l do agree it is a risk bringing people in from outside the country - but if they cannot get anyone in country to do it at a cost they (and end customer) can afford then needs must]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on April 18, 2020, 11:55:44 PM
The Time skewering Boris and the Tories about their response... will be interesting to see how they try to spin this!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on April 19, 2020, 12:01:00 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 18, 2020, 11:55:44 PM
The Time skewering Boris and the Tories about their response... will be interesting to see how they try to spin this!!

Boris probably won't reappear for a month hoping it'll all blow over by then.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 19, 2020, 12:06:54 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 18, 2020, 11:55:44 PM
The Time skewering Boris and the Tories about their response... will be interesting to see how they try to spin this!!
British media finally waking up oŕ Murdoch wants Bozo out?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on April 19, 2020, 12:20:48 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 02:51:21 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 17, 2020, 12:59:16 PM
"The bigger problem is - there is no viable alternative. They either let the crop rot and with a lack of food on the shelves people get very antsy very quickly or they bring in labour."

Or they pay a decent living wage for Dublin that wouldn't even put a significant dent in their massive profits but hey ho no , they're a fg company in bed with senior fg figures . Why are people afraid of the genuine truth , keelings epitomise all that's wrong with capitalism/globalism . I really thought this horrible pandemic would open people's eyes

All nice till you put a number or two at it.

Keelings had supposedly sales of ~€300m in 2016 while employing ~2,000 people.

Say they've a 5% profit margin (which is likely quite optimistic), that means €15m.

If each person works 1800 hours a year, that is 3.6m man-hours a year.

So that works out at a €4/hr rate rise for everyone - and in doing so wiping out all profits leaving the company deeply vulnerable to any loss of crop due to bad weather or for investment in equipment, facilities etc.

;) ;)

Try this , sold to Pallas under "unusual " circumstances, then work out Sysco. Then put Coveney, Leo , goodman , Patrick Coveney (the other goys brother) then bring Caroline keeling appointed by fg to Bord bia , then horse racing Ireland , then Larry goodman company & Sysco and then Coveney s wife is Larry Goodmans niece . Put it all together.


Alls well In the land of saints and scholars . 

Fg scum , , big business only , shitting on the ordinary man since o Duffy went seig heil. Blueshirt west Brit bastas.

Now glad I got that off my chest , keelings only reason for not recruiting local labour is financial. No holiday pay , €7ph is what they come out with after meals and accommodation. Slave labour sin e .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 19, 2020, 12:42:37 AM
All so Paddy can have chape stuff on the shelf ......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 19, 2020, 07:47:18 AM
Health Minister Simon Harris has signalled schools could be reopened one day a week before the end of term this summer but has ruled out mass gatherings for the foreseeable future, throwing into doubt the prospect of this year's All-Ireland championships and annual concerts and festivals.

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/coronavirus-ireland-planning-underway-to-reopen-schools-as-harris-raises-once-a-week-scenario-39138834.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 19, 2020, 09:06:15 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 18, 2020, 06:33:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 18, 2020, 01:54:06 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 17, 2020, 11:26:18 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 17, 2020, 09:24:29 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 17, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
Keelings chartering a flight from Bulgaria for fruit pickers. . . is there any truth to that??

That looks true, shocking stuff. No more Keelings for me.

Whys it shocking?

The locals have neither the appetite or attitude for it.

What the fuckedy moment, do I really have to explain this to our self appointed Covid expert.

Yes, please do explain it to me.

As part of your explanation, please include an expected impact on the price of their produce from anything you propose and a comparison of that to the cost of imported fruit/veg and with rationale for how they will continue to sell into markets.

Thanks.

---------------
I did say in another post:

QuoteThe bigger problem is - there is no viable alternative. They either let the crop rot and with a lack of food on the shelves people get very antsy very quickly or they bring in labour.

Now I agree that there would need to be a strict 14day isolation for each and every one of them after arriving here - especially before being allowed to work in the food chain - and I'll bet that is not happening - due to greed.


To be clear - I'm not a big fan of this happening - it is an obvious risk as a source of further virus carriers. But there is no viable alternative if the locals don't want to do the work for a wage the company can afford price the shopper is willing to pay.

Keelings won't be the only bunch at risk here, what proportion of the Irish food store would be at risk of rotting on the vine if they didn't get it picked? Would it mean bare shelves? Or would it have minor impact?

Why would I explain it from a financial point of view. The country is either under lockdown or it's not. Flying people into the country with no evidence of strict pandemic protocols being adhered too is ill advised. The head of the HSE & our Taoiseach even agree

State of this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 19, 2020, 09:30:08 AM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on April 19, 2020, 12:01:00 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 18, 2020, 11:55:44 PM
The Time skewering Boris and the Tories about their response... will be interesting to see how they try to spin this!!

Boris probably won't reappear for a month hoping it'll all blow over by then.

In fairness, he was infected with Coronavirus, he's not a super hero either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on April 19, 2020, 11:01:39 AM
Bought the UK Times and read the full article, good read but nothing overly surprising if you assumed it's been handled badly from the start - 99% of posters here fall into that category.

The most interesting point I read was that only a decade or so ago the UK was admired for it's Pandemic plans and preparedness and Singapore's Pandemic plan was copied from the UK! Unsurprisingly austerity and Brexit planning are pinpointed as the main reasons for it's current state as well as more recent bouts of hubris and good old fashioned incompetence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 19, 2020, 11:20:21 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 19, 2020, 12:20:48 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 02:51:21 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 17, 2020, 12:59:16 PM
"The bigger problem is - there is no viable alternative. They either let the crop rot and with a lack of food on the shelves people get very antsy very quickly or they bring in labour."

Or they pay a decent living wage for Dublin that wouldn't even put a significant dent in their massive profits but hey ho no , they're a fg company in bed with senior fg figures . Why are people afraid of the genuine truth , keelings epitomise all that's wrong with capitalism/globalism . I really thought this horrible pandemic would open people's eyes

All nice till you put a number or two at it.

Keelings had supposedly sales of ~€300m in 2016 while employing ~2,000 people.

Say they've a 5% profit margin (which is likely quite optimistic), that means €15m.

If each person works 1800 hours a year, that is 3.6m man-hours a year.

So that works out at a €4/hr rate rise for everyone - and in doing so wiping out all profits leaving the company deeply vulnerable to any loss of crop due to bad weather or for investment in equipment, facilities etc.

;) ;)

Try this , sold to Pallas under "unusual " circumstances, then work out Sysco. Then put Coveney, Leo , goodman , Patrick Coveney (the other goys brother) then bring Caroline keeling appointed by fg to Bord bia , then horse racing Ireland , then Larry goodman company & Sysco and then Coveney s wife is Larry Goodmans niece . Put it all together.


Alls well In the land of saints and scholars . 

Fg scum , , big business only , shitting on the ordinary man since o Duffy went seig heil. Blueshirt west Brit bastas.

Now glad I got that off my chest , keelings only reason for not recruiting local labour is financial. No holiday pay , €7ph is what they come out with after meals and accommodation. Slave labour sin e .

If you don't have business you don't have jobs. Hate business people all you want but they generate huge amount of jobs, directly and indirectly as well as tax. Can't blame all the ills of society on them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on April 19, 2020, 12:13:38 PM
There is a minimum wage in place for a very good reason, Keelings shouldn't be exempt from having to meet these requirements like any other business in the country.

If because their type of work is heavily labour intensive, which is the case, it doesn't give them the right to ignore employment laws in this country, or find sneaky underhand ways of fiddling the system to employ these workers at low pay rates.

I'm working in Dublin full time and Keelings are advertising on Today fm every day of the week and I presume other media outlets too. Not once have I heard of them advertising for staff regarding picking fruit.

I dont buy the "Irish are too lazy" to work these jobs either, our young people who went to Australia all had to spend time picking fruit, people are on their arses in Dublin trying to pay rent etc. If Keelings put the same effort into recruiting in Ireland as they do in Bulgaria they would get the staff.

There are dozens of recruitment agencies in Dublin that would source these workers no problem. The fact of the matter is they want to pay bottom dollar wages, hide behind providing accommodation and meals to bulk the wages up, that's what galls me.

If they can provide accommodation for up to 200 workers they could easily provide buses, from Naas, Bray,  Navan Dunshaughlin etc instead, if they are struggling for numbers.

The construction industry is the same, concrete subbies bring in 10 or 15 Romanian lads at a time and if they get 2 or 3 lads out of that, that know what they are doing they are happy enough. There are lads with fake safe passes, not a word of english, no on site experience that are a danger to themselves and others but a blind eye is turned because they are cheap.

Dont get me wrong there are plenty of very good Romanian steel fixers and chippies too but its scandalous the way they are treated. The Irish lads to a large degree are sidelined already.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 19, 2020, 01:07:13 PM
Quote from: ardtole on April 19, 2020, 12:13:38 PM
There is a minimum wage in place for a very good reason, Keelings shouldn't be exempt from having to meet these requirements like any other business in the country.

If because their type of work is heavily labour intensive, which is the case, it doesn't give them the right to ignore employment laws in this country, or find sneaky underhand ways of fiddling the system to employ these workers at low pay rates.

I'm working in Dublin full time and Keelings are advertising on Today fm every day of the week and I presume other media outlets too. Not once have I heard of them advertising for staff regarding picking fruit.

I dont buy the "Irish are too lazy" to work these jobs either, our young people who went to Australia all had to spend time picking fruit, people are on their arses in Dublin trying to pay rent etc. If Keelings put the same effort into recruiting in Ireland as they do in Bulgaria they would get the staff.

There are dozens of recruitment agencies in Dublin that would source these workers no problem. The fact of the matter is they want to pay bottom dollar wages, hide behind providing accommodation and meals to bulk the wages up, that's what galls me.

If they can provide accommodation for up to 200 workers they could easily provide buses, from Naas, Bray,  Navan Dunshaughlin etc instead, if they are struggling for numbers.

The construction industry is the same, concrete subbies bring in 10 or 15 Romanian lads at a time and if they get 2 or 3 lads out of that, that know what they are doing they are happy enough. There are lads with fake safe passes, not a word of english, no on site experience that are a danger to themselves and others but a blind eye is turned because they are cheap.

Dont get me wrong there are plenty of very good Romanian steel fixers and chippies too but its scandalous the way they are treated. The Irish lads to a large degree are sidelined already.

If you have evidence to back this up you should notify the proper authorities otherwise you're complicit by not reporting it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 19, 2020, 01:19:42 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 19, 2020, 12:20:48 AMNow glad I got that off my chest , keelings only reason for not recruiting local labour is financial. No holiday pay , €7ph is what they come out with after meals and accommodation. Slave labour sin e .

If that is the case - and I have no knowledge to judge either way - then labour laws need looked at.

Not that I've any idea what a possible solution would look like yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on April 19, 2020, 01:42:46 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 19, 2020, 01:07:13 PM
Quote from: ardtole on April 19, 2020, 12:13:38 PM
There is a minimum wage in place for a very good reason, Keelings shouldn't be exempt from having to meet these requirements like any other business in the country.

If because their type of work is heavily labour intensive, which is the case, it doesn't give them the right to ignore employment laws in this country, or find sneaky underhand ways of fiddling the system to employ these workers at low pay rates.

I'm working in Dublin full time and Keelings are advertising on Today fm every day of the week and I presume other media outlets too. Not once have I heard of them advertising for staff regarding picking fruit.

I dont buy the "Irish are too lazy" to work these jobs either, our young people who went to Australia all had to spend time picking fruit, people are on their arses in Dublin trying to pay rent etc. If Keelings put the same effort into recruiting in Ireland as they do in Bulgaria they would get the staff.

There are dozens of recruitment agencies in Dublin that would source these workers no problem. The fact of the matter is they want to pay bottom dollar wages, hide behind providing accommodation and meals to bulk the wages up, that's what galls me.

If they can provide accommodation for up to 200 workers they could easily provide buses, from Naas, Bray,  Navan Dunshaughlin etc instead, if they are struggling for numbers.

The construction industry is the same, concrete subbies bring in 10 or 15 Romanian lads at a time and if they get 2 or 3 lads out of that, that know what they are doing they are happy enough. There are lads with fake safe passes, not a word of english, no on site experience that are a danger to themselves and others but a blind eye is turned because they are cheap.

Dont get me wrong there are plenty of very good Romanian steel fixers and chippies too but its scandalous the way they are treated. The Irish lads to a large degree are sidelined already.

If you have evidence to back this up you should notify the proper authorities otherwise you're complicit by not reporting it.

Believe it or not, cases have been reported directly to the HSA, and no action taken. How can lads get banksman tickets, teleporter tickets etc when you have to sit a test. A lot of lads getting them would have little or no english. Every safety officer in Dublin knows what is going on when they induct these lads. A blind eye is turned, anyway I'm going off topic, this would need it's own thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Downtothewire on April 19, 2020, 01:44:33 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 19, 2020, 12:20:48 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 02:51:21 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 17, 2020, 12:59:16 PM
"The bigger problem is - there is no viable alternative. They either let the crop rot and with a lack of food on the shelves people get very antsy very quickly or they bring in labour."

Or they pay a decent living wage for Dublin that wouldn't even put a significant dent in their massive profits but hey ho no , they're a fg company in bed with senior fg figures . Why are people afraid of the genuine truth , keelings epitomise all that's wrong with capitalism/globalism . I really thought this horrible pandemic would open people's eyes

All nice till you put a number or two at it.

Keelings had supposedly sales of ~€300m in 2016 while employing ~2,000 people.

Say they've a 5% profit margin (which is likely quite optimistic), that means €15m.

If each person works 1800 hours a year, that is 3.6m man-hours a year.

So that works out at a €4/hr rate rise for everyone - and in doing so wiping out all profits leaving the company deeply vulnerable to any loss of crop due to bad weather or for investment in equipment, facilities etc.

;) ;)

Try this , sold to Pallas under "unusual " circumstances, then work out Sysco. Then put Coveney, Leo , goodman , Patrick Coveney (the other goys brother) then bring Caroline keeling appointed by fg to Bord bia , then horse racing Ireland , then Larry goodman company & Sysco and then Coveney s wife is Larry Goodmans niece . Put it all together.


Alls well In the land of saints and scholars . 

Fg scum , , big business only , shitting on the ordinary man since o Duffy went seig heil. Blueshirt west Brit bastas.

Now glad I got that off my chest , keelings only reason for not recruiting local labour is financial. No holiday pay , €7ph is what they come out with after meals and accommodation. Slave labour sin e .

When did you first realise this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 19, 2020, 02:08:20 PM
Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found here.
https://www.ft.com/content/3d863bf5-ed52-30c6-8b5e-0f556bb3b791

Australia has called for an independent, international inquiry into the origins of the coronavirus in Wuhan and signalled its relationship with China will change in the wake of the deadly pandemic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 19, 2020, 02:27:07 PM
Where will they get Independent enquirers from?
Mars?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 19, 2020, 02:37:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 19, 2020, 02:08:20 PM
Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found here.
https://www.ft.com/content/3d863bf5-ed52-30c6-8b5e-0f556bb3b791

Australia has called for an independent, international inquiry into the origins of the coronavirus in Wuhan and signalled its relationship with China will change in the wake of the deadly pandemic.

I presume it was released accidently?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: nrico2006 on April 19, 2020, 05:19:06 PM
A good drop in the death numbers today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on April 19, 2020, 05:25:56 PM
Hopefully they are falling, but numbers published on Sunday and Monday (from the weekend) have tended to be lower than the surrounding days due to a delay in reporting the deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 19, 2020, 05:41:10 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 19, 2020, 05:25:56 PM
Hopefully they are falling, but numbers published on Sunday and Monday (from the weekend) have tended to be lower than the surrounding days due to a delay in reporting the deaths.
Thst drop is too big. It'll be business as usual by Monday/Tuesday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2020, 06:20:46 PM
I'm going to die of beer wine nuts chocolate consumption! The Covid won't hit my door!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 19, 2020, 06:22:19 PM
39 more "deaths notified" in the 26 and 610 I think new cases.
Numbers being admitted to acute hospitals down for 3rd day in a row.
Hopefully..........
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 19, 2020, 06:49:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 19, 2020, 06:22:19 PM
39 more "deaths notified" in the 26 and 610 I think new cases.
Numbers being admitted to acute hospitals down for 3rd day in a row.
Hopefully..........

They have sent out a squad of testers to the nursing homes, this marks the beginning of a process of hunting for the pestilence, which can only be good even if it does turn up more cases in the short term.  This is the way forward, if cases emerge then test everyone around that place and keep it there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2020, 07:24:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2020, 06:49:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 19, 2020, 06:22:19 PM
39 more "deaths notified" in the 26 and 610 I think new cases.
Numbers being admitted to acute hospitals down for 3rd day in a row.
Hopefully..........

They have sent out a squad of testers to the nursing homes, this marks the beginning of a process of hunting for the pestilence, which can only be good even if it does turn up more cases in the short term.  This is the way forward, if cases emerge then test everyone around that place and keep it there.

Should the staff stay quarantined in the care homes?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 19, 2020, 07:27:54 PM
They should probably isolate from families like a lot of nhs staff do :( I don't envy anyone doing that but it is probably what needs to be done.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on April 19, 2020, 08:31:49 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 19, 2020, 05:19:06 PM
A good drop in the death numbers today.
Where?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 19, 2020, 08:32:16 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 19, 2020, 07:27:54 PM
They should probably isolate from families like a lot of nhs staff do :( I don't envy anyone doing that but it is probably what needs to be done.


It's a hard sentence, many's the thug got a lesser sentence.
If they get testing going perhaps you could do one or two weeks living in, then two weeks off, then a test (or probably two tests) and back in again.
The problem is that this will be going on for a long time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 19, 2020, 08:50:40 PM
At the minute a lot of the staff doing these jobs probably feel like it's a sentence :(

What does community transmission mean? Just from being out and about? Is it any more granular than that? E.g . Supermarket , pub etc? I assume not

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on April 19, 2020, 08:51:21 PM
Quote from: laoislad on April 19, 2020, 08:31:49 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 19, 2020, 05:19:06 PM
A good drop in the death numbers today.
Where?

NI 1.
Engerland well down too, duno bout Sco and Wal. Ita and Spa also down.
Prob the weekend explains some of the data but good to see smaller numbers.
Havin said that i take them all with a pinch of salt these days
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 19, 2020, 09:05:59 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 19, 2020, 08:51:21 PM
Quote from: laoislad on April 19, 2020, 08:31:49 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 19, 2020, 05:19:06 PM
A good drop in the death numbers today.
Where?

NI 1.
Engerland well down too, duno bout Sco and Wal. Ita and Spa also down.
Prob the weekend explains some of the data but good to see smaller numbers.
Havin said that i take them all with a pinch of salt these days

Many places are  down onSundays, the office is closed. You then get a rake on Tuesday
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: nrico2006 on April 19, 2020, 10:26:01 PM
Big drop from last Sunday though as well. But Tuesday usually tells the most accurate state of play.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 20, 2020, 09:12:54 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 19, 2020, 11:01:39 AM
Bought the UK Times and read the full article, good read but nothing overly surprising if you assumed it's been handled badly from the start - 99% of posters here fall into that category.

The most interesting point I read was that only a decade or so ago the UK was admired for it's Pandemic plans and preparedness and Singapore's Pandemic plan was copied from the UK! Unsurprisingly austerity and Brexit planning are pinpointed as the main reasons for it's current state as well as more recent bouts of hubris and good old fashioned incompetence.

It's even less surprising when you listen to Boris talk about the coronavirus back in February at a speech in Greenwich to the business community @9:50 in then it all becomes clear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV1XZQ_8eqE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV1XZQ_8eqE)

He's no fúcking Clark Kent.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on April 20, 2020, 10:01:59 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 20, 2020, 09:12:54 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 19, 2020, 11:01:39 AM
Bought the UK Times and read the full article, good read but nothing overly surprising if you assumed it's been handled badly from the start - 99% of posters here fall into that category.

The most interesting point I read was that only a decade or so ago the UK was admired for it's Pandemic plans and preparedness and Singapore's Pandemic plan was copied from the UK! Unsurprisingly austerity and Brexit planning are pinpointed as the main reasons for it's current state as well as more recent bouts of hubris and good old fashioned incompetence.

It's even less surprising when you listen to Boris talk about the coronavirus back in February at a speech in Greenwich to the business community @9:50 in then it all becomes clear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV1XZQ_8eqE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV1XZQ_8eqE)

He's no fúcking Clark Kent.




Opened that and went to 9:50 and listened to him wittering on, lots of jingoism and speculation about Brexit bullshit, but nothing about CV, unless I missed the point. 


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 20, 2020, 10:06:08 AM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-military-sympt/coronavirus-clue-most-cases-aboard-us-aircraft-carrier-are-symptom-free-idUSKCN21Y2GB

So, considering this US Navy screw up as essentially a controlled test environment.

~60% of COVID cases have no symptoms.

Good and bad. Good in that many more among the general population may have had it and fought it off than first thought, bad in that dumb fukkers who have no symptoms think they are grand and don't need to observe social distancing measures - while they could actually be a carrier and infecting others.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 20, 2020, 10:53:56 AM
Quote from: APM on April 20, 2020, 10:01:59 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 20, 2020, 09:12:54 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 19, 2020, 11:01:39 AM
Bought the UK Times and read the full article, good read but nothing overly surprising if you assumed it's been handled badly from the start - 99% of posters here fall into that category.

The most interesting point I read was that only a decade or so ago the UK was admired for it's Pandemic plans and preparedness and Singapore's Pandemic plan was copied from the UK! Unsurprisingly austerity and Brexit planning are pinpointed as the main reasons for it's current state as well as more recent bouts of hubris and good old fashioned incompetence.

It's even less surprising when you listen to Boris talk about the coronavirus back in February at a speech in Greenwich to the business community @9:50 in then it all becomes clear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV1XZQ_8eqE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV1XZQ_8eqE)

He's no fúcking Clark Kent.




Opened that and went to 9:50 and listened to him wittering on, lots of jingoism and speculation about Brexit bullshit, but nothing about CV, unless I missed the point.

Apologes, at 9:45 he starts on about Coronavirus and it's economic impact due to "market segregation which goes beyond which is medically rational".

do you not think he's talking about not going into lockdown and keeping the economy intact rather than locking down to prevent contagion?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2020, 11:31:42 AM
During this pandemic are normal flu deaths being recorded as just that, flu deaths and what is the rate of those since this all started ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 20, 2020, 11:50:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2020, 11:31:42 AM
During this pandemic are normal flu deaths being recorded as just that, flu deaths and what is the rate of those since this all started ?

Probably very little as the flu will be getting few chances to spread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 20, 2020, 11:51:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2020, 11:31:42 AM
During this pandemic are normal flu deaths being recorded as just that, flu deaths and what is the rate of those since this all started ?

Depends on Medical Practitioner. Like anything, you could have one that is thorough and does the job to the tee or you could have one who'll throw down, Covid 19...next.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on April 20, 2020, 11:58:03 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 20, 2020, 11:51:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2020, 11:31:42 AM
During this pandemic are normal flu deaths being recorded as just that, flu deaths and what is the rate of those since this all started ?

Depends on Medical Practitioner. Like anything, you could have one that is thorough and does the job to the tee or you could have one who'll throw down, Covid 19...next.

I don't think you can just "throw down" Covid19 unless there's been a test no??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on April 20, 2020, 12:11:39 PM
Seasonal flu is largely gone by this time of year
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2020, 12:15:52 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 20, 2020, 12:11:39 PM
Seasonal flu is largely gone by this time of year

Depending on where you live I suppose
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 20, 2020, 12:25:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 20, 2020, 11:58:03 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 20, 2020, 11:51:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2020, 11:31:42 AM
During this pandemic are normal flu deaths being recorded as just that, flu deaths and what is the rate of those since this all started ?

Depends on Medical Practitioner. Like anything, you could have one that is thorough and does the job to the tee or you could have one who'll throw down, Covid 19...next.

I don't think you can just "throw down" Covid19 unless there's been a test no??

It's basically a form upon death which they are legally obliged to complete. Unless there is foul play, suspected foul play or any kind of autopsy it will just be filed with the national office of statistics - the below is issued to Medical Practitioners since the outbreak -

3. Referring deaths to the coroner
• Covid-19 is an acceptable direct or underlying cause of death for the purposes of
completing the Medical Certificate of Cause of Death
• Covid-19 is not a reason on its own to refer a death to a coroner under the
Coroners and Justice Act 2009.
• That Covid-19 is a notifiable disease under the Health Protection (Notification)
Regulations 2010 does not mean referral to a coroner is required by virtue of its
notifiable status.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 20, 2020, 01:21:27 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 20, 2020, 11:50:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2020, 11:31:42 AM
During this pandemic are normal flu deaths being recorded as just that, flu deaths and what is the rate of those since this all started ?

Probably very little as the flu will be getting few chances to spread.

Exactly. In Hong Kong the flu season ended early because of the social distancing etc.

Quote from: screenexile on April 20, 2020, 11:58:03 AM
I don't think you can just "throw down" Covid19 unless there's been a test no??

I think if the patient had the clinical symptoms then you can put it down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 20, 2020, 01:30:51 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 20, 2020, 10:06:08 AM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-military-sympt/coronavirus-clue-most-cases-aboard-us-aircraft-carrier-are-symptom-free-idUSKCN21Y2GB

So, considering this US Navy screw up as essentially a controlled test environment.

~60% of COVID cases have no symptoms.

Good and bad. Good in that many more among the general population may have had it and fought it off than first thought, bad in that dumb fukkers who have no symptoms think they are grand and don't need to observe social distancing measures - while they could actually be a carrier and infecting others.

Mostly good I would say as it may help scientists to understand why the people who carry it with no symptoms are not getting sick. Is it diet, is it genetics, weight, smoking etc. If that can be understood then perhaps it can help people protect itself. Good also in that they % fatalities for those who are infected would not be as high as 1st believed. However, it does little to protect the people who are vulnerable today. Someone posted an article earlier on this thread from Harvard I think that presented similar results in a study.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 20, 2020, 02:07:19 PM
Is Angela Merkel the only politician to come out of the Coronavirus with an even greater respect (internationally) than before?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TabClear on April 20, 2020, 02:21:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 20, 2020, 02:07:19 PM
Is Angela Merkel the only politician to come out of the Coronavirus with an even greater respect (internationally) than before?

New Zealand and Portugal seem to have  had decent leadership as well. Decisive action early seems to have been key. Obviously NZ has the advantages of being a relatively small island but Portugal I would have viewed as similar to Spain and the response and management seems to have been very different.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 20, 2020, 03:28:24 PM
Now a link to Air pollution?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2020, 04:05:38 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 20, 2020, 03:28:24 PM
Now a link to Air pollution?

in a good way i'd imagine
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 20, 2020, 04:13:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2020, 04:05:38 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 20, 2020, 03:28:24 PM
Now a link to Air pollution?

in a good way i'd imagine

High levels of air pollution may be "one of the most important contributors" to deaths from Covid-19, according to research.
The analysis shows that of the coronavirus deaths across 66 administrative regions in Italy, Spain, France and Germany, 78% of them occurred in just five regions, and these were the most polluted
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: nrico2006 on April 20, 2020, 04:15:49 PM
Quote from: TabClear on April 20, 2020, 02:21:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 20, 2020, 02:07:19 PM
Is Angela Merkel the only politician to come out of the Coronavirus with an even greater respect (internationally) than before?

New Zealand and Portugal seem to have  had decent leadership as well. Decisive action early seems to have been key. Obviously NZ has the advantages of being a relatively small island but Portugal I would have viewed as similar to Spain and the response and management seems to have been very different.

New Zealand has the advantage of being surrounded by water, but so too does Ireland.  Yet, Ireland has far more deaths than New Zealand.  New Zealand is a lot bigger than Ireland too, as well as a lot bigger than Portugal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 20, 2020, 04:26:47 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 20, 2020, 04:15:49 PM
Quote from: TabClear on April 20, 2020, 02:21:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 20, 2020, 02:07:19 PM
Is Angela Merkel the only politician to come out of the Coronavirus with an even greater respect (internationally) than before?

New Zealand and Portugal seem to have  had decent leadership as well. Decisive action early seems to have been key. Obviously NZ has the advantages of being a relatively small island but Portugal I would have viewed as similar to Spain and the response and management seems to have been very different.

New Zealand has the advantage of being surrounded by water, but so too does Ireland.  Yet, Ireland has far more deaths than New Zealand.  New Zealand is a lot bigger than Ireland too, as well as a lot bigger than Portugal.

Large part of that can be explained by the Kiwis literally pulling the plug on the border. Whereas, about 20k odd Irish went to Cheltenham where it's been proven the virus was transmitted. One mistake, I think in years to come might well see someone being badly hung out to dry over it when the dust settles.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2020, 04:45:19 PM
So with the likes of bars and cafes and such like places being told they may be out of bounds till xmas, a good lot of those places will shut completely.

What is the exit plan for this from the Irish government?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 20, 2020, 05:09:57 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 20, 2020, 04:13:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2020, 04:05:38 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on April 20, 2020, 03:28:24 PM
Now a link to Air pollution?

in a good way i'd imagine

High levels of air pollution may be "one of the most important contributors" to deaths from Covid-19, according to research.
The analysis shows that of the coronavirus deaths across 66 administrative regions in Italy, Spain, France and Germany, 78% of them occurred in just five regions, and these were the most polluted

More population usually correlates with pollution, so you're going to see more cases in more populated and hence more polluted areas. Pollution may be a factor but it's tricky to attribute cause to effect for that sort of thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on April 20, 2020, 05:14:49 PM
Sweden's stats looking pretty decent on Sky News there for a Herd Immunity type approach?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-19/sweden-says-controversial-covid-19-strategy-is-proving-effective
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on April 20, 2020, 05:15:42 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 20, 2020, 04:15:49 PM
Quote from: TabClear on April 20, 2020, 02:21:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 20, 2020, 02:07:19 PM
Is Angela Merkel the only politician to come out of the Coronavirus with an even greater respect (internationally) than before?

New Zealand and Portugal seem to have  had decent leadership as well. Decisive action early seems to have been key. Obviously NZ has the advantages of being a relatively small island but Portugal I would have viewed as similar to Spain and the response and management seems to have been very different.

New Zealand has the advantage of being surrounded by water, but so too does Ireland.  Yet, Ireland has far more deaths than New Zealand.  New Zealand is a lot bigger than Ireland too, as well as a lot bigger than Portugal.

New Zealand's main advantage is they are in the middle of nowhere in the south pacific. They acted early in fairness but I'm not sure they are comparable to somewhere that gets a lot of European traffic through it daily.

Ireland acted quicker than the UK did but it's becoming apparent that they should have shut things down even sooner than they did.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2020, 05:16:51 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 20, 2020, 05:14:49 PM
Sweden's stats looking pretty decent on Sky News there for a Herd Immunity type approach?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-19/sweden-says-controversial-covid-19-strategy-is-proving-effective

Some country was going to try it, though they would have less populated areas than UK and France
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on April 20, 2020, 06:05:36 PM
77 deaths today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 20, 2020, 06:38:25 PM
Quote from: laoislad on April 20, 2020, 06:05:36 PM
77 deaths today.

That's a bad toll.
Also, 401 cases. Now that testing has largely caught up these are presumably people that got it in the last 10 days or so and that seems a lot also.
By way of comparison Spain only reported 399.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: nrico2006 on April 20, 2020, 06:55:46 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on April 20, 2020, 05:15:42 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 20, 2020, 04:15:49 PM
Quote from: TabClear on April 20, 2020, 02:21:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 20, 2020, 02:07:19 PM
Is Angela Merkel the only politician to come out of the Coronavirus with an even greater respect (internationally) than before?

New Zealand and Portugal seem to have  had decent leadership as well. Decisive action early seems to have been key. Obviously NZ has the advantages of being a relatively small island but Portugal I would have viewed as similar to Spain and the response and management seems to have been very different.

New Zealand has the advantage of being surrounded by water, but so too does Ireland.  Yet, Ireland has far more deaths than New Zealand.  New Zealand is a lot bigger than Ireland too, as well as a lot bigger than Portugal.

New Zealand's main advantage is they are in the middle of nowhere in the south pacific. They acted early in fairness but I'm not sure they are comparable to somewhere that gets a lot of European traffic through it daily.

Ireland acted quicker than the UK did but it's becoming apparent that they should have shut things down even sooner than they did.

Ireland was a shambles too, the whole Cheltenham fiasco as well as letting flights in from Italy on the scheduled 6 nations weekend when northern Italy was in turmoil.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 21, 2020, 09:35:34 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2020, 05:16:51 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 20, 2020, 05:14:49 PM
Sweden's stats looking pretty decent on Sky News there for a Herd Immunity type approach?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-19/sweden-says-controversial-covid-19-strategy-is-proving-effective

Some country was going to try it, though they would have less populated areas than UK and France

I've been to Sweden, their cities are not sprawling concrete jungles compared to the likes of London, Madrid, New York etc with high rise tower blocks etc.

Stockholm would be small enough - Dublin population wise is bigger. After that, Gothenberg and Malmo wouldn't have much about them either - Malmo infact is only a bridge away from Copenhagen so it's not like they are cocooned away either from the rest of the world.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 09:42:39 AM
Could it be a case when they phase in the re opening, that they do it based on population density and local hospital capacity?

There must be places (providing they get no visitors for a period) that could function using social distancing measures but bring back in some normality, dome rural schools are small enough with numbers to bring in pupils gradually.

There has to be some light at the end of this tunnel!

Obviously over 70's stay put and nursing homes need extra attention
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 21, 2020, 10:03:40 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 09:42:39 AM
Could it be a case when they phase in the re opening, that they do it based on population density and local hospital capacity?

There must be places (providing they get no visitors for a period) that could function using social distancing measures but bring back in some normality, dome rural schools are small enough with numbers to bring in pupils gradually.

There has to be some light at the end of this tunnel!

Obviously over 70's stay put and nursing homes need extra attention

Was thinking about this the other day, sooner or later the Governments must get everything open. It seems mad they would crash the economy for this when literally you or I as we read could have the virus and be perfectly fine. Obviously as you say the care and nursing homes need to be run militarily from here on as that is the major issue right now.

We don't have cures for alot of other virus' if we think about it, HIV etc. I think the time will come when demand dictates life returns to 'normal'. Obviously the thought of that will annoy quite a few but as you say, there needs to be positivity, all we are getting is the absolute deluge of negative news. 

Seen this morning that German Sky is already advertising the return of the Bundesliga.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 10:13:15 AM
Lads dare I say it but it has not been anywhere near as bad as first predicted
Now I say that with my upmost condolences with the family's whose loved ones have passed away
Robbie Swann said this morning that his early predictions of close to 2000 deaths are massively off the mark
ICU beds are only 40% full
PPE seems well under control compared to the UK
Hospitals across the north are pretty much empty(a lot to do with no one going to A an E)
Now I know a lot of this has got to do with lockdown happening but has this been somewhat of an over reaction? How many of the 200 had underlying problems?
Now our biggest problem now is our care homes and not the general public
We have paralysed the economy which will result in deaths and bankruptcy for years
Just my thoughts don't eat the head of me
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 21, 2020, 10:14:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 21, 2020, 10:03:40 AM

Was thinking about this the other day, sooner or later the Governments must get everything open. It seems mad they would crash the economy for this when literally you or I as we read could have the virus and be perfectly fine. Obviously as you say the care and nursing homes need to be run militarily from here on as that is the major issue right now.

We don't have cures for alot of other virus' if we think about it, HIV etc. I think the time will come when demand dictates life returns to 'normal'. Obviously the thought of that will annoy quite a few but as you say, there needs to be positivity, all we are getting is the absolute deluge of negative news. 

Normal activity does not put you at risk of HIV. You might have no risk from the virus, but you cannot be allowed threaten other people either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 21, 2020, 10:21:11 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 21, 2020, 10:14:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 21, 2020, 10:03:40 AM

Was thinking about this the other day, sooner or later the Governments must get everything open. It seems mad they would crash the economy for this when literally you or I as we read could have the virus and be perfectly fine. Obviously as you say the care and nursing homes need to be run militarily from here on as that is the major issue right now.

We don't have cures for alot of other virus' if we think about it, HIV etc. I think the time will come when demand dictates life returns to 'normal'. Obviously the thought of that will annoy quite a few but as you say, there needs to be positivity, all we are getting is the absolute deluge of negative news. 

Normal activity does not put you at risk of HIV. You might have no risk from the virus, but you cannot be allowed threaten other people either.

Agree completely, but the conversation probably is now close to happening where we start to think about a trade off for returning to normal v those most at risk.

As MR2 stated the Care Homes and over 70s are most in need of the help and care - how do we go about that whilst preparing to return to normal? That will be the long term thing that sticks with us over this, in Ireland anway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gaafan2 on April 21, 2020, 10:47:41 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 10:13:15 AM
Lads dare I say it but it has not been anywhere near as bad as first predicted
Now I say that with my upmost condolences with the family's whose loved ones have passed away
Robbie Swann said this morning that his early predictions of close to 2000 deaths are massively off the mark
ICU beds are only 40% full
PPE seems well under control compared to the UK
Hospitals across the north are pretty much empty(a lot to do with no one going to A an E)
Now I know a lot of this has got to do with lockdown happening but has this been somewhat of an over reaction? How many of the 200 had underlying problems?
Now our biggest problem now is our care homes and not the general public
We have paralysed the economy which will result in deaths and bankruptcy for years
Just my thoughts don't eat the head of me

+1
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 21, 2020, 10:58:20 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 21, 2020, 10:14:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 21, 2020, 10:03:40 AM

Was thinking about this the other day, sooner or later the Governments must get everything open. It seems mad they would crash the economy for this when literally you or I as we read could have the virus and be perfectly fine. Obviously as you say the care and nursing homes need to be run militarily from here on as that is the major issue right now.

We don't have cures for alot of other virus' if we think about it, HIV etc. I think the time will come when demand dictates life returns to 'normal'. Obviously the thought of that will annoy quite a few but as you say, there needs to be positivity, all we are getting is the absolute deluge of negative news. 

Normal activity does not put you at risk of HIV. You might have no risk from the virus, but you cannot be allowed threaten other people either.

I still think they're learning how this virus transmits itself so readily in crowds and whilst we've been reasonably lucky in terms of per capita deaths to date there'll be changes no matter what.
As much as the 70+'s are impacted the most and a lot of people are asymptomatic or have little more than a bad cough up to pneumonia I think parts of the lockdown will remain like large social or sporting gatherings.


Companies will now need to seriously look at allowing working from home as a viable option for a lot of workers and how desks/work areas are arranged and so on.
Cash transactions in shops will drop off and probably will remain a lot lower from now on.

Spacing on public transport etc etc also will need reviewed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ned on April 21, 2020, 11:02:10 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 21, 2020, 09:35:34 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2020, 05:16:51 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 20, 2020, 05:14:49 PM
Sweden's stats looking pretty decent on Sky News there for a Herd Immunity type approach?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-19/sweden-says-controversial-covid-19-strategy-is-proving-effective

Some country was going to try it, though they would have less populated areas than UK and France

I've been to Sweden, their cities are not sprawling concrete jungles compared to the likes of London, Madrid, New York etc with high rise tower blocks etc.

Stockholm would be small enough - Dublin population wise is bigger. After that, Gothenberg and Malmo wouldn't have much about them either - Malmo infact is only a bridge away from Copenhagen so it's not like they are cocooned away either from the rest of the world.

Per capita Sweden is eleventh for deaths, worse than Ireland, better than UK. Also, the Swedish tend to be more compliant and are doing what they are told largely. Wouldn't work the same way here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: naka on April 21, 2020, 11:04:08 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 10:13:15 AM
Lads dare I say it but it has not been anywhere near as bad as first predicted
Now I say that with my upmost condolences with the family's whose loved ones have passed away
Robbie Swann said this morning that his early predictions of close to 2000 deaths are massively off the mark
ICU beds are only 40% full
PPE seems well under control compared to the UK
Hospitals across the north are pretty much empty(a lot to do with no one going to A an E)
Now I know a lot of this has got to do with lockdown happening but has this been somewhat of an over reaction? How many of the 200 had underlying problems?
Now our biggest problem now is our care homes and not the general public
We have paralysed the economy which will result in deaths and bankruptcy for years
Just my thoughts don't eat the head of me
Interesting synopsis, wouldn't find a lot of favour here .
I do believe that because the north is somewhat rural it has helped and by and large most people are compliant.
Not sure what is happening in the south .
My own views are that the trashing of the economy will result like  you said and like it did in 2009-2011 in a fair number of deaths/ breakdowns etc  which destroyed many families .
It's a tricky situation for the governments because they need to show a way out of this and Tbf I don't think they know a way out .
Like during  the troubles the brits need to figure out what is the acc so level of deaths .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 21, 2020, 11:05:38 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 10:13:15 AM
Lads dare I say it but it has not been anywhere near as bad as first predicted
Now I say that with my upmost condolences with the family's whose loved ones have passed away
Robbie Swann said this morning that his early predictions of close to 2000 deaths are massively off the mark
ICU beds are only 40% full
PPE seems well under control compared to the UK
Hospitals across the north are pretty much empty(a lot to do with no one going to A an E)
Now I know a lot of this has got to do with lockdown happening but has this been somewhat of an over reaction? How many of the 200 had underlying problems?
Now our biggest problem now is our care homes and not the general public
We have paralysed the economy which will result in deaths and bankruptcy for years
Just my thoughts don't eat the head of me

This part is wrong. Nurses still have not got  enough PPE of the correct spec etc. When Murphy announced 5 million pieces few weeks ago we all bought that, but I know for a fact as my wife works in covid 19 ward that the PPE is nowhere near good enough
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 21, 2020, 11:08:18 AM
Quote from: ned on April 21, 2020, 11:02:10 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 21, 2020, 09:35:34 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2020, 05:16:51 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 20, 2020, 05:14:49 PM
Sweden's stats looking pretty decent on Sky News there for a Herd Immunity type approach?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-19/sweden-says-controversial-covid-19-strategy-is-proving-effective

Some country was going to try it, though they would have less populated areas than UK and France

I've been to Sweden, their cities are not sprawling concrete jungles compared to the likes of London, Madrid, New York etc with high rise tower blocks etc.

Stockholm would be small enough - Dublin population wise is bigger. After that, Gothenberg and Malmo wouldn't have much about them either - Malmo infact is only a bridge away from Copenhagen so it's not like they are cocooned away either from the rest of the world.

Per capita Sweden is eleventh for deaths, worse than Ireland, better than UK. Also, the Swedish tend to be more compliant and are doing what they are told largely. Wouldn't work the same way here.

sweden not doing well at all and the people there are not happy with their govt approach either. doing much worse than ireland, 2.5 as many deaths
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 21, 2020, 11:09:55 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 21, 2020, 10:21:11 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 21, 2020, 10:14:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 21, 2020, 10:03:40 AM

Was thinking about this the other day, sooner or later the Governments must get everything open. It seems mad they would crash the economy for this when literally you or I as we read could have the virus and be perfectly fine. Obviously as you say the care and nursing homes need to be run militarily from here on as that is the major issue right now.

We don't have cures for alot of other virus' if we think about it, HIV etc. I think the time will come when demand dictates life returns to 'normal'. Obviously the thought of that will annoy quite a few but as you say, there needs to be positivity, all we are getting is the absolute deluge of negative news. 

Normal activity does not put you at risk of HIV. You might have no risk from the virus, but you cannot be allowed threaten other people either.

Agree completely, but the conversation probably is now close to happening where we start to think about a trade off for returning to normal v those most at risk.

As MR2 stated the Care Homes and over 70s are most in need of the help and care - how do we go about that whilst preparing to return to normal? That will be the long term thing that sticks with us over this, in Ireland anway.

Forgetting the high numbers of people not in those groups but have various illness' that are also at risk?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 21, 2020, 11:15:26 AM
Quote from: gaafan2 on April 21, 2020, 10:47:41 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 10:13:15 AM
Lads dare I say it but it has not been anywhere near as bad as first predicted
Now I say that with my upmost condolences with the family's whose loved ones have passed away
Robbie Swann said this morning that his early predictions of close to 2000 deaths are massively off the mark
ICU beds are only 40% full
PPE seems well under control compared to the UK
Hospitals across the north are pretty much empty(a lot to do with no one going to A an E)
Now I know a lot of this has got to do with lockdown happening but has this been somewhat of an over reaction? How many of the 200 had underlying problems?
Now our biggest problem now is our care homes and not the general public
We have paralysed the economy which will result in deaths and bankruptcy for years
Just my thoughts don't eat the head of me

+1

+2

I'd agree. The numbers are a mess right from the early predictions, to how many are actually infected and have died. The wife (a nurse) says the hospitals are empty and there's literally very little happening. Granted she's not on a Covid ward but some of her friends are and they say similar. I'd expect a controlled and gradual relaxation of restrictions shortly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 11:19:50 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 20, 2020, 11:50:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2020, 11:31:42 AM
During this pandemic are normal flu deaths being recorded as just that, flu deaths and what is the rate of those since this all started ?

Probably very little as the flu will be getting few chances to spread.

Might have to hold my hands up here:

QuoteNearly 185,000 people have died compared to around 175,000 on average compared to past five years - up until the pandemic hit the death rate was lower than average.

But the figures for year-to-date also show the impact of flu and pneumonia compared to coronavirus.

The number of deaths from flu and pneumonia - at more than 32,000 - is three times higher than the total number of coronavirus deaths this year.

This difference will obviously narrow in the coming weeks as the flu season is coming to an end.

But all of this relies on clinical judgement rather than a diagnostic test. Flu and coronavirus have similar symptoms - cough and fever - and flu is not tested for.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52361519


But in saying that - how many of those flu/pneumonia deaths that are occurring outside of hospital have an accompanying COVID test and have COVID down as reason for death if a positive test?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 21, 2020, 11:31:34 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 21, 2020, 11:15:26 AM
Quote from: gaafan2 on April 21, 2020, 10:47:41 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 10:13:15 AM
Lads dare I say it but it has not been anywhere near as bad as first predicted
Now I say that with my upmost condolences with the family's whose loved ones have passed away
Robbie Swann said this morning that his early predictions of close to 2000 deaths are massively off the mark
ICU beds are only 40% full
PPE seems well under control compared to the UK
Hospitals across the north are pretty much empty(a lot to do with no one going to A an E)
Now I know a lot of this has got to do with lockdown happening but has this been somewhat of an over reaction? How many of the 200 had underlying problems?
Now our biggest problem now is our care homes and not the general public
We have paralysed the economy which will result in deaths and bankruptcy for years
Just my thoughts don't eat the head of me

+1

+2

I'd agree. The numbers are a mess right from the early predictions, to how many are actually infected and have died. The wife (a nurse) says the hospitals are empty and there's literally very little happening. Granted she's not on a Covid ward but some of her friends are and they say similar. I'd expect a controlled and gradual relaxation of restrictions shortly.

Altnagelvin is relatively quiet outside covid 19 wards, the 4 wards set aside for covid 19 have not seen a big increase in last 2 weeks, PPE is the big issue in there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 21, 2020, 11:32:00 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 11:19:50 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 20, 2020, 11:50:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2020, 11:31:42 AM
During this pandemic are normal flu deaths being recorded as just that, flu deaths and what is the rate of those since this all started ?

Probably very little as the flu will be getting few chances to spread.

Might have to hold my hands up here:

QuoteNearly 185,000 people have died compared to around 175,000 on average compared to past five years - up until the pandemic hit the death rate was lower than average.

But the figures for year-to-date also show the impact of flu and pneumonia compared to coronavirus.

The number of deaths from flu and pneumonia - at more than 32,000 - is three times higher than the total number of coronavirus deaths this year.

This difference will obviously narrow in the coming weeks as the flu season is coming to an end.

But all of this relies on clinical judgement rather than a diagnostic test. Flu and coronavirus have similar symptoms - cough and fever - and flu is not tested for.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52361519


But in saying that - how many of those flu/pneumonia deaths that are occurring outside of hospital have an accompanying COVID test and have COVID down as reason for death if a positive test?

Will depend on the Medical Practitioner, like I said earlier, like any job - you'll have people who take paperwork seriously, you'll have people who just tick the box to get the paper out of the road. Covid-19 could be being ticked to get it out of the road by some which is reflected in the stats we get daily.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on April 21, 2020, 11:47:51 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 21, 2020, 11:31:34 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 21, 2020, 11:15:26 AM
Quote from: gaafan2 on April 21, 2020, 10:47:41 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 10:13:15 AM
Lads dare I say it but it has not been anywhere near as bad as first predicted
Now I say that with my upmost condolences with the family’s whose loved ones have passed away
Robbie Swann said this morning that his early predictions of close to 2000 deaths are massively off the mark
ICU beds are only 40% full
PPE seems well under control compared to the UK
Hospitals across the north are pretty much empty(a lot to do with no one going to A an E)
Now I know a lot of this has got to do with lockdown happening but has this been somewhat of an over reaction? How many of the 200 had underlying problems?
Now our biggest problem now is our care homes and not the general public
We have paralysed the economy which will result in deaths and bankruptcy for years
Just my thoughts don’t eat the head of me

+1

+2

I'd agree. The numbers are a mess right from the early predictions, to how many are actually infected and have died. The wife (a nurse) says the hospitals are empty and there's literally very little happening. Granted she's not on a Covid ward but some of her friends are and they say similar. I'd expect a controlled and gradual relaxation of restrictions shortly.

Altnagelvin is relatively quiet outside covid 19 wards, the 4 wards set aside for covid 19 have not seen a big increase in last 2 weeks, PPE is the big issue in there.

Has your wife always worked in ICU or has she been pulled into it for Covid ?  Are they likely to start pulling staff back out of there if numbers decrease in the coming weeks ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 11:52:44 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 10:13:15 AM
Lads dare I say it but it has not been anywhere near as bad as first predicted
Now I say that with my upmost condolences with the family's whose loved ones have passed away
Robbie Swann said this morning that his early predictions of close to 2000 deaths are massively off the mark
ICU beds are only 40% full
PPE seems well under control compared to the UK
Hospitals across the north are pretty much empty(a lot to do with no one going to A an E)
Now I know a lot of this has got to do with lockdown happening but has this been somewhat of an over reaction? How many of the 200 had underlying problems?
Now our biggest problem now is our care homes and not the general public
We have paralysed the economy which will result in deaths and bankruptcy for years
Just my thoughts don't eat the head of me

The problem is - things are not as bad as could be *because* of the measures taken that have crashed the economy.

If we release back without visibility of any immediate changes, then there is a high risk in 2-3 weeks the health system is swamped - the 2nd peak - and there would be no visibility of it until the point people start arriving in the wards - at which point you are 2-3 weeks behind that curve ramp and are f**ked.


The solution is to dramatically ramp up testing, ideally we'd be in a situation like Germany, with a strong testing/tracing system already in place.

But, we are where we are - so its ramp up testing as much as possible, it won't be perfect, but it has to be made work - and not just of people being admitted to hospitals, but try to identify people who would be in contact with many - key links in the social chains - shopworkers, home help etc - test them repeatedly and often and use that as a means of measuring virus levels in general populace. Then start relaxing certain lockdown measures, carefully waiting to see their effects on the virus spread. Basically then "tune" the lockdown measures to a point where health admissions are at an acceptable level.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 21, 2020, 11:58:54 AM
Yeah the medical profession would seem to be of the opinion wave 2 could be worse(up north at least) so I doubt that resources will be released any time soon.

Also it is because of lockdown I would say that we're not as bad as we could be. I still think flybe going under saved a lot of bother up north as the routes in and out were a lot less. You'd be less likely to go on 1 day business trips(or short busness trips) from London.

It still interests me as to how many have had this asymptomatically and whether considerably more have had it than is thought. I still think there is not a full handle on how people are getting this either. (e.g. if you read the GAA thread with someone suggesting handpassing a football which someone else has touched etc you have to wonder what could spread it. If it's that easy to spread then we'd all have had it but the question is how easy is it to spread? There are varying reports on how long it stays on surfaces).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 12:16:25 PM
Yep - basically economies across the world are waiting for the antibody test to give a better picture of how prevalent it is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 12:19:01 PM
And where are we with an effective anti body test?

And you'll never make it as a politician, holding your hands up in your early post wouldn't be the norm!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 12:28:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 12:19:01 PM
And where are we with an effective anti body test?

Dunno - there have been quite a few false dawns with it so they are obviously having more trouble than envisaged.

Sounds like its one of those things - you won't know when it'll be done till its done. Been there before and had to keep explaining to dumb project managers how a novel unknown is not quantifiable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 21, 2020, 12:35:53 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on April 21, 2020, 11:47:51 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 21, 2020, 11:31:34 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 21, 2020, 11:15:26 AM
Quote from: gaafan2 on April 21, 2020, 10:47:41 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 10:13:15 AM
Lads dare I say it but it has not been anywhere near as bad as first predicted
Now I say that with my upmost condolences with the family's whose loved ones have passed away
Robbie Swann said this morning that his early predictions of close to 2000 deaths are massively off the mark
ICU beds are only 40% full
PPE seems well under control compared to the UK
Hospitals across the north are pretty much empty(a lot to do with no one going to A an E)
Now I know a lot of this has got to do with lockdown happening but has this been somewhat of an over reaction? How many of the 200 had underlying problems?
Now our biggest problem now is our care homes and not the general public
We have paralysed the economy which will result in deaths and bankruptcy for years
Just my thoughts don't eat the head of me

+1

+2

I'd agree. The numbers are a mess right from the early predictions, to how many are actually infected and have died. The wife (a nurse) says the hospitals are empty and there's literally very little happening. Granted she's not on a Covid ward but some of her friends are and they say similar. I'd expect a controlled and gradual relaxation of restrictions shortly.

Altnagelvin is relatively quiet outside covid 19 wards, the 4 wards set aside for covid 19 have not seen a big increase in last 2 weeks, PPE is the big issue in there.

Has your wife always worked in ICU or has she been pulled into it for Covid ?  Are they likely to start pulling staff back out of there if numbers decrease in the coming weeks ?

It is not ICU. The way it is working is as follows,, you come in to test centre, if positive you go to one of four wards for medical care, some will stay there and be discharged if things go well. These wards will have some patients on breathing  assistance(not ventilator) The really bad cases, ie ventilation  etc go to ICU. She was deployed there 3 weeks ago from another part of hospital, eventually if things go to plan she will go back to her own area, no word yet however
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 12:36:23 PM
There is no evidence at all to suggest that it can spread from surfaces etc. The scientists at WHO have come out and said that.
We need to slowly start lifting restrictions here and start getting things back to normal.
Shops open
Schools back in strict social distancing (20% attendance each day) All kids back 1 day a week
Building sites open
Parks open
Anyone over the age of 70 needs to isolate for another 6 weeks
We are going to see deaths but not as many as people think
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on April 21, 2020, 12:47:19 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 12:36:23 PM
There is no evidence at all to suggest that it can spread from surfaces etc. The scientists at WHO have come out and said that.
We need to slowly start lifting restrictions here and start getting things back to normal.
Shops open
Schools back in strict social distancing (20% attendance each day) All kids back 1 day a week
Building sites open
Parks open
Anyone over the age of 70 needs to isolate for another 6 weeks
We are going to see deaths but not as many as people think

would agree with this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 21, 2020, 12:49:08 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 11:52:44 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 10:13:15 AM
Lads dare I say it but it has not been anywhere near as bad as first predicted
Now I say that with my upmost condolences with the family's whose loved ones have passed away
Robbie Swann said this morning that his early predictions of close to 2000 deaths are massively off the mark
ICU beds are only 40% full
PPE seems well under control compared to the UK
Hospitals across the north are pretty much empty(a lot to do with no one going to A an E)
Now I know a lot of this has got to do with lockdown happening but has this been somewhat of an over reaction? How many of the 200 had underlying problems?
Now our biggest problem now is our care homes and not the general public
We have paralysed the economy which will result in deaths and bankruptcy for years
Just my thoughts don't eat the head of me

The problem is - things are not as bad as could be *because* of the measures taken that have crashed the economy.

If we release back without visibility of any immediate changes, then there is a high risk in 2-3 weeks the health system is swamped - the 2nd peak - and there would be no visibility of it until the point people start arriving in the wards - at which point you are 2-3 weeks behind that curve ramp and are f**ked.


The solution is to dramatically ramp up testing, ideally we'd be in a situation like Germany, with a strong testing/tracing system already in place.

But, we are where we are - so its ramp up testing as much as possible, it won't be perfect, but it has to be made work - and not just of people being admitted to hospitals, but try to identify people who would be in contact with many - key links in the social chains - shopworkers, home help etc - test them repeatedly and often and use that as a means of measuring virus levels in general populace. Then start relaxing certain lockdown measures, carefully waiting to see their effects on the virus spread. Basically then "tune" the lockdown measures to a point where health admissions are at an acceptable level.

Its amazing that you have to actually point that out.

But not surprising. Its happens every time there's some big issue that requires mass response. Then, after the appropriate measures are taken or imposed to contain or prevent the problem, you have the backlash saying it was all bullshit or overstated in the first place, as if the preventative measures were irrelevant to the relatively happy outcome.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 01:01:10 PM
 It was completely needed, wish we'd have shut the airports at the start to, hopefully if something like this happens again that the first action. If it's not entering the country it can't generate
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 01:03:14 PM
Robbie Swann prediction was made with lockdown measures
His scientists estimated 15000 deaths with lockdown in place
Even with no lockdown I can't imagine numbers being close to 5000
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 21, 2020, 01:04:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2020, 12:49:08 PM

Its amazing that you have to actually point that out.

But not surprising. Its happens every time there's some big issue that requires mass response. Then, after the appropriate measures are taken or imposed to contain or prevent the problem, you have the backlash saying it was all bullshit or overstated in the first place, as if the preventative measures were irrelevant to the relatively happy outcome.

The thing is that the economy has never previously been shut down in the history of the State. For the simple reason that taking such drastic action will never result in any sort of relatively happy outcome.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 01:10:04 PM
Quote from: five points on April 21, 2020, 01:04:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2020, 12:49:08 PM

Its amazing that you have to actually point that out.

But not surprising. Its happens every time there's some big issue that requires mass response. Then, after the appropriate measures are taken or imposed to contain or prevent the problem, you have the backlash saying it was all bullshit or overstated in the first place, as if the preventative measures were irrelevant to the relatively happy outcome.

The thing is that the economy has never previously been shut down in the history of the State. For the simple reason that taking such drastic action will never result in any sort of relatively happy outcome.

The workers strike crippled the country for a period
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 01:14:29 PM
I think lockdown measures were needed but not on the scale where everything closed
The big thing was the social distancing
All shops should have been kept open with strict social distancing
Building sites also kept open
Offices kept open with strict distancing where possible
Leisure centres

Closed for a month
Schools
Pubs
Restaurant


Closed when they did and reopen after Easter
If anyone feeling sick self isolate for 2 weeks
And really bang home the social distancing in everyday life

If things don't open soon it will be to late to claw things back
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 21, 2020, 01:16:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 01:10:04 PM
Quote from: five points on April 21, 2020, 01:04:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2020, 12:49:08 PM

Its amazing that you have to actually point that out.

But not surprising. Its happens every time there's some big issue that requires mass response. Then, after the appropriate measures are taken or imposed to contain or prevent the problem, you have the backlash saying it was all bullshit or overstated in the first place, as if the preventative measures were irrelevant to the relatively happy outcome.

The thing is that the economy has never previously been shut down in the history of the State. For the simple reason that taking such drastic action will never result in any sort of relatively happy outcome.

The workers strike crippled the country for a period

I'm talking ROI of course but it ended badly too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 01:19:25 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 01:14:29 PM
I think lockdown measures were needed but not on the scale where everything closed

NO NO NO NO NO.

You come down hard at the start and release things after you are sure you have it under control.

If you f**k about at the start, then it can quickly grow beyond control.


If UK/Ire had banned flights from Italy in early Feb, banned ski trips to Italy and had enacted proper measures earlier - we might well be out the far side of it now and could restart then entire local economy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 21, 2020, 01:22:21 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 01:14:29 PM
I think lockdown measures were needed but not on the scale where everything closed
The big thing was the social distancing
All shops should have been kept open with strict social distancing
Building sites also kept open
Offices kept open with strict distancing where possible
Leisure centres

Closed for a month
Schools
Pubs
Restaurant


Closed when they did and reopen after Easter
If anyone feeling sick self isolate for 2 weeks
And really bang home the social distancing in everyday life

If things don't open soon it will be to late to claw things back

What? Social distancing simply isn't possible in offices. They're actively designed to bring people together.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 21, 2020, 01:41:06 PM
Quote from: five points on April 21, 2020, 01:04:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2020, 12:49:08 PM

Its amazing that you have to actually point that out.

But not surprising. Its happens every time there's some big issue that requires mass response. Then, after the appropriate measures are taken or imposed to contain or prevent the problem, you have the backlash saying it was all bullshit or overstated in the first place, as if the preventative measures were irrelevant to the relatively happy outcome.

The thing is that the economy has never previously been shut down in the history of the State. For the simple reason that taking such drastic action will never result in any sort of relatively happy outcome.

You don't think avoiding the horrific scenes in Italy counts as a relative success?

There was no manual to refer to with this virus except to avoid the mistakes of those who had the misfortune to experience an outbreak before you did. Italy waited too long to shut down, and suffered the consequences. The only responsible action in the light of the available evidence was to shut things down to avoid spread. What would Boris Johnson do if he could have early March back for the UK?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: charlieTully on April 21, 2020, 01:41:41 PM
Some of the comments on here remind me of the movie the beach, when the 2 Swedes get injured in a shark attack  and after a time they are basically left to die whilst everyone else carries on with having the craic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 01:46:02 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on April 21, 2020, 01:41:41 PM
Some of the comments on here remind me of the movie the beach, when the 2 Swedes get injured in a shark attack  and after a time they are basically left to die whilst everyone else carries on with having the craic.

I wonder how life goes in those countries where malaria and hunger kills 100 of thousands every year, this isn't even close and we are shocked at the amount deaths happening.

We can count ourselves very lucky in a way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 21, 2020, 01:46:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2020, 01:41:06 PM
You don't think avoiding the horrific scenes in Italy counts as a relative success?

There was no manual to refer to with this virus except to avoid the mistakes of those who had the misfortune to experience an outbreak before you did. Italy waited too long to shut down, and suffered the consequences. The only responsible action in the light of the available evidence was to shut things down to avoid spread. What would Boris Johnson do if he could have early March back for the UK?

The Italian strategy of filling their hospitals with people who were only mildly symptomatic was a crazy one in fairness. If in normal times we sent every kid with measles into hospital, there would be carnage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 21, 2020, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on April 21, 2020, 01:41:41 PM
Some of the comments on here remind me of the movie the beach, when the 2 Swedes get injured in a shark attack  and after a time they are basically left to die whilst everyone else carries on with having the craic.

Great film.

To the point, there is no right or wrong here with regards to this virus. We are all learning, all the time. What works for one, won't work for the other and we all have individual things going on in the real world which influences the views we might bring. I have actually quite liked this thread at times, at others its descended into nonsense but it's been a great tool to discuss IMO. We should maybe just lay off the aggression at times.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 21, 2020, 01:48:47 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 21, 2020, 01:47:17 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on April 21, 2020, 01:41:41 PM
Some of the comments on here remind me of the movie the beach, when the 2 Swedes get injured in a shark attack  and after a time they are basically left to die whilst everyone else carries on with having the craic.

Great film.

To the point, there is no right or wrong here with regards to this virus. We are all learning, all the time. What works for one, won't work for the other and we all have individual things going on in the real world which influences the views we might bring. I have actually quite liked this thread at times, at others its descended into nonsense but it's been a great tool to discuss IMO. We should maybe just lay off the aggression at times.

Agreed. Well done all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 01:50:55 PM
Quote from: five points on April 21, 2020, 01:46:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2020, 01:41:06 PM
You don't think avoiding the horrific scenes in Italy counts as a relative success?

There was no manual to refer to with this virus except to avoid the mistakes of those who had the misfortune to experience an outbreak before you did. Italy waited too long to shut down, and suffered the consequences. The only responsible action in the light of the available evidence was to shut things down to avoid spread. What would Boris Johnson do if he could have early March back for the UK?

The Italian strategy of filling their hospitals with people who were only mildly symptomatic was a crazy one in fairness. If in normal times we sent every kid with measles into hospital, there would be carnage.

Its more complex than that - often in Italy you'll have 3 generations under one roof - so leaving them at home would just infect more elderly.

Of course, isolated wards would be necessary for keeping those symptomatic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 21, 2020, 01:54:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 01:46:02 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on April 21, 2020, 01:41:41 PM
Some of the comments on here remind me of the movie the beach, when the 2 Swedes get injured in a shark attack  and after a time they are basically left to die whilst everyone else carries on with having the craic.

I wonder how life goes in those countries where malaria and hunger kills 100 of thousands every year, this isn't even close and we are shocked at the amount deaths happening.

We can count ourselves very lucky in a way.

We can count ourselves lucky _compared to the third world_ "in a way."

Yes, I'd like to f**king think we can!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 02:01:09 PM
Gallsman you redesign offices so that they are not coming together
Shops are designed to bring people together and measures were put in place as best they can to help.
Moving tables desks computers around is really not that hard to do.
Schools need to reopen and if some children live with grandparents them they stuff off.
The economy is falling apart in front of us and we will be paying for this for a very long time
It is going to get to a stage where things will close for good
Pubs
Restaurants
Fitness studios
Retail shops

And with that the knock-on affect is Huge.
The amount of unemployment after this will be catastrophic
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 02:09:19 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 21, 2020, 01:54:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 01:46:02 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on April 21, 2020, 01:41:41 PM
Some of the comments on here remind me of the movie the beach, when the 2 Swedes get injured in a shark attack  and after a time they are basically left to die whilst everyone else carries on with having the craic.

I wonder how life goes in those countries where malaria and hunger kills 100 of thousands every year, this isn't even close and we are shocked at the amount deaths happening.

We can count ourselves very lucky in a way.

We can count ourselves lucky _compared to the third world_ "in a way."

Yes, I'd like to f**king think we can!
In a way that, you haven't been brought up in a third world country so we are very lucky.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 02:11:16 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 02:01:09 PM
Gallsman you redesign offices so that they are not coming together
Moving tables desks computers around is really not that hard to do.

Yes, because that is what businesses do - they buy or rent big expansive office spaces which have loads of room for "moving around tables" so that occupancy density goes down.  ::)



Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 02:01:09 PM
Schools need to reopen and if some children live with grandparents them they stuff off.

So what happens at meal times?

Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 02:01:09 PM
It is going to get to a stage where things will close for good
Pubs
Restaurants
Fitness studios
Retail shops

And with that the knock-on affect is Huge.

Jesus wept. Yeah, 'cos that'll work.

People in packed bars - thats why you go - to socialise.
Cooks handling food not for their own consumption.
Gyms - hard to see how having shared changing rooms, handling sweaty machines/weights and heavy breathing indoors could have anything to do with spreading a virus. Nope. Can't see a connection there at all.


QuoteThe economy is falling apart in front of us and we will be paying for this for a very long time
The amount of unemployment after this will be catastrophic

The economy can be rebuilt. A lost life cannot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 21, 2020, 02:18:06 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 02:11:16 PM

So what happens at meal times?

Bring lunches for a few weeks and put them eating at their desks.

Quote
People in packed bars - thats why you go - to socialise.
Some of us go for the drink and dislike packed places.
Quote
Cooks handling food not for their own consumption.
Round here most of the takeaways are operating almost as normal. Seems safe.

Quote
Gyms - hard to see how having shared changing rooms, handling sweaty machines/weights and heavy breathing indoors could have anything to do with spreading a virus. Nope. Can't see a connection there at all.
Agreed.


QuoteThe economy can be rebuilt. A lost life cannot.

A ruined economy means more lost lives. Lots more.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 21, 2020, 02:20:11 PM
Quote from: ned on April 21, 2020, 11:02:10 AM
Per capita Sweden is eleventh for deaths, worse than Ireland, better than UK. Also, the Swedish tend to be more compliant and are doing what they are told largely. Wouldn't work the same way here.

Sweden has 185 deaths today their weekend backlog arrives on a Tuesday.

Quote from: five points on April 21, 2020, 01:46:42 PM
The Italian strategy of filling their hospitals with people who were only mildly symptomatic was a crazy one in fairness. If in normal times we sent every kid with measles into hospital, there would be carnage.

What evidence is there that they had such a strategy?  On the contrary, in the badly affected areas you couldn' get brought to hospital unless things were really bad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 02:25:08 PM
Quote from: five points on April 21, 2020, 02:18:06 PM
Bring lunches for a few weeks and put them eating at their desks.

Dead on - you try and handle that.

Quote from: five points on April 21, 2020, 02:18:06 PM
Some of us go for the drink and dislike packed places.

Then get a carryout from the supermarket.

Quote from: five points on April 21, 2020, 02:18:06 PM
Round here most of the takeaways are operating almost as normal. Seems safe.

Do most takeaways give you your food on their plates and handle the cutlery & crockery?


Quote from: five points on April 21, 2020, 02:18:06 PM
A ruined economy means more lost lives. Lots more.

This is a problem - no point pretending otherwise.

Do you have any statistics that tie the state of the economy of a first world country with a social welfare system to mortality?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 21, 2020, 02:27:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 21, 2020, 02:20:11 PM
What evidence is there that they had such a strategy?  On the contrary, in the badly affected areas you couldn' get brought to hospital unless things were really bad.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/06/hospitalising-coronavirus-patients-can-cause-deaths-italy-data/?fbclid=IwAR3DqaM8ZP3yPSJjJp1CLtBUBQgTSvp5jfliq000Fo8ISz3Vzyqu8KzTEV8
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 02:28:58 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 02:25:08 PM
Quote from: five points on April 21, 2020, 02:18:06 PM
Bring lunches for a few weeks and put them eating at their desks.

Dead on - you try and handle that.

Quote from: five points on April 21, 2020, 02:18:06 PM
Some of us go for the drink and dislike packed places.

Then get a carryout from the supermarket.

Quote from: five points on April 21, 2020, 02:18:06 PM
Round here most of the takeaways are operating almost as normal. Seems safe.

Do most takeaways give you your food on their plates and handle the cutlery & crockery?


Quote from: five points on April 21, 2020, 02:18:06 PM
A ruined economy means more lost lives. Lots more.

This is a problem - no point pretending otherwise.

Do you have any statistics that tie the state of the economy of a first world country with a social welfare system to mortality?

You'd have to go back to the Great Depression to get figures for that, or Brexit, hows that going at the minute?

I wonder how long it will take  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 21, 2020, 02:32:29 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 02:25:08 PM

(Bring lunches for a few weeks and put them eating at their desks.)

Dead on - you try and handle that.

Easy enough handled on wet days back in my day.

Quote

Then get a carryout from the supermarket.
That won't help any pubs survive though.
Quote

(Round here most of the takeaways are operating almost as normal. Seems safe.)

Do most takeaways give you your food on their plates and handle the cutlery & crockery?

A few minutes ago it was food being handled that you were worried about. Pizza is often eaten from the box and fish and chips from the bag.

Quote
Do you have any statistics that tie the state of the economy of a first world country with a social welfare system to mortality?

Not offhand but I'm sure there's plenty of it out there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: nrico2006 on April 21, 2020, 02:34:59 PM
If the airports had been shut down at the start of this mess then life could have been pretty normal for everybody here.  That was the biggest mistake.  The virus more than likely arrived on this island via a plane.  No planes coming in equals no virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 02:36:29 PM
Im not saying to open pubs now. But soon
Everything was running as normal 5 weeks ago when it was spreading in the north and it has not been to bad let's be real about that
Reopen things now with strict measures in place
Retail shops
Building sites
Offices
Schools (1/2 per week spread out over the week with different classes/years)

Have you been to a shop recently to get groceries? People all over each other. Have you been out for a walk recently? People walking everywhere you look.

All I am saying is things need to start moving again or more lives will be lost from the aftermath than the virus. Mark my words
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 21, 2020, 03:05:23 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 02:36:29 PM
Im not saying to open pubs now. But soon
Everything was running as normal 5 weeks ago when it was spreading in the north and it has not been to bad let's be real about that
Reopen things now with strict measures in place
Retail shops
Building sites
Offices
Schools (1/2 per week spread out over the week with different classes/years)

Have you been to a shop recently to get groceries? People all over each other. Have you been out for a walk recently? People walking everywhere you look.

All I am saying is things need to start moving again or more lives will be lost from the aftermath than the virus. Mark my words

"it has not been to bad" because of the lockdown! Without the lockdown the picture would look a hell of a lot worse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 03:10:21 PM
Without the lockdown things would be worse but not a lot.
Don't forget 90% of deaths have underlying problems happening
We won't have a vaccine for 18 months at best so what would you propose we do in those 18/24 months Gallsman?
Get things going again with social media measures to stay in place where possible
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 03:10:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 02:28:58 PM
You'd have to go back to the Great Depression to get figures for that, or Brexit, hows that going at the minute?

I wonder how long it will take  ::)

Well then you can't state it as a certainty!

Either there is evidence or there isn't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 03:11:05 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 03:10:21 PM
Without the lockdown things would be worse but not a lot.

???

Like Italy?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 03:16:36 PM
Quote from: five points on April 21, 2020, 02:32:29 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 02:25:08 PM
(Bring lunches for a few weeks and put them eating at their desks.)
Dead on - you try and handle that.
Easy enough handled on wet days back in my day.
[/quote]

Yeah, a class of 30 kids - who cannot be 2m apart given the classroom sizes that are not getting outside to play all day.

Weeks of that on end will work well.  ???



Quote from: five points on April 21, 2020, 02:32:29 PM
Quote
Then get a carryout from the supermarket.
That won't help any pubs survive though.
Quote

Unfortunately that simply isn't a big priority right now.

Quote from: five points on April 21, 2020, 02:32:29 PM
A few minutes ago it was food being handled that you were worried about. Pizza is often eaten from the box and fish and chips from the bag.

Aye, 'cos cooks frequently stick their hands all over your food - oh no - they use utensils. Of course I meant the whole thing and not literally just sticking their hands in your food.

Boxes and bags are not handled much where the food actually contacts.

Quote from: five points on April 21, 2020, 02:32:29 PM
Quote
Do you have any statistics that tie the state of the economy of a first world country with a social welfare system to mortality?

Not offhand but I'm sure there's plenty of it out there.

We'd* need that in order to know just how big a priority it is to get the economy running again.

*well, not us, but you know what I mean.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 03:18:22 PM
when we get no new cases, will that be deemed as the point where its starting to die off, and are we talking 3 weeks after that when we can see a huge difference?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 21, 2020, 03:21:47 PM
Yeah a doctor mate was saying basically 2 weeks after a load of positive tests is when you could start to see shit hitting fan. The problem with predictability on that is that the testing regime from 2 weeks ago was drastically different to 4 weeks ago etc etc hence why they had to prep for large surges in ICU/deaths etc which haven't necessarily happened (yet anyway).

I would expect a long time before it goes to zero but would expect lockdown to end if significant drop off rather than zero.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 21, 2020, 03:30:23 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 02:36:29 PM
Im not saying to open pubs now. But soon
Everything was running as normal 5 weeks ago when it was spreading in the north and it has not been to bad let's be real about that
Reopen things now with strict measures in place
Retail shops
Building sites
Offices
Schools (1/2 per week spread out over the week with different classes/years)

Have you been to a shop recently to get groceries? People all over each other. Have you been out for a walk recently? People walking everywhere you look.

All I am saying is things need to start moving again or more lives will be lost from the aftermath than the virus. Mark my words

Im not sure if you are just on the wind up or serious smurf.....but anyway

Pubs will be one of the last to open - definitely not soon. 2m metres apart with a crowd of drunk lads. Lack of cleanliness in toilets. Pissed up lads lifting the wrong drink........countless things to spread virus.

Offices - majority of people in offices pay by the square metre - who is going to pay for all of the extra space that is needed for physical distancing?

Everything was running as normal 5 weeks ago when it was spreading in the north and it has not been to bad let's be real about that as for this - you do realise the reason it isnt as bad now dont you?
90% of deaths had underlying issues - imagine how many deaths if there was no lockdown
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 21, 2020, 03:31:40 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 03:10:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 02:28:58 PM
You'd have to go back to the Great Depression to get figures for that, or Brexit, hows that going at the minute?

I wonder how long it will take  ::)

Well then you can't state it as a certainty!

Either there is evidence or there isn't.

Plenty of evidence in Greece I'd imagine. I personally know people who died as a result of the 2008 collapse here and what happened them happened to lots of others too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 21, 2020, 03:46:12 PM
Meanwhile just to prove Covid denying right wing nut fuckwittery isnt the sole preserve if Yanks....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/supporters-of-john-waters-and-gemma-odoherty-refused-entry-to-court-hearing-995252.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 04:19:39 PM
I am not for a second winding up. Yes I agree pubs should be the last thing to open and will be.
But my point is things need to start moving again and life needs to start operation not as normal but a step in the right direction. Every takeaway around my area is now opened again after a few weeks been closed. I was in one on Saturday night and little or no social distancing measures in place.
Now what's the difference in takeaways opening and a retail shop?
Public transport on the go still. 15 people on a bus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 21, 2020, 04:24:11 PM
Need to get everything back ASAP or there'll be nothing to go back to.

I've said it before but the figures are a mess. If they're worse than stated then ok perhaps we should continue lockdown but they're accurate then let's start to relax restrictions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 21, 2020, 04:35:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 21, 2020, 04:24:11 PM
Need to get everything back ASAP or there'll be nothing to go back to.

I've said it before but the figures are a mess. If they're worse than stated then ok perhaps we should continue lockdown but they're accurate then let's start to relax restrictions.

In the UK?

Even Andrew Neil is estimating that the UK death toll is nearer 24K than what they announce as hospital deaths every day!

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1252609977417695234 (https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1252609977417695234)

Even here in NI we're not sure of the impact on the Care sector as we'll only know more this friday due to the delay.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on April 21, 2020, 04:41:12 PM
Was driving through Crumlin today and it was just like any other day apart from pubs being closed. Nearly sure I saw shadows in there too. Thriving.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 21, 2020, 04:49:42 PM
Quote from: ONeill on April 21, 2020, 04:41:12 PM
Was driving through Crumlin today and it was just like any other day apart from pubs being closed. Nearly sure I saw shadows in there too. Thriving.

Bottles only I'd say.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 21, 2020, 04:50:06 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 21, 2020, 04:35:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 21, 2020, 04:24:11 PM
Need to get everything back ASAP or there'll be nothing to go back to.

I've said it before but the figures are a mess. If they're worse than stated then ok perhaps we should continue lockdown but they're accurate then let's start to relax restrictions.

In the UK?

Even Andrew Neil is estimating that the UK death toll is nearer 24K than what they announce as hospital deaths every day!

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1252609977417695234 (https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1252609977417695234)

Even here in NI we're not sure of the impact on the Care sector as we'll only know more this friday due to the delay.

Figures need quantified. How many ppl normally die? What are the age groups? Do they have underlying conditions? What's our NHS capacity?
Can we ease restrictions in certain areas? I'm not suggesting opening pubs and clubs, but non essential shops, garden centres etc. Sensible restrictions must remain, but we need to get economy going as well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 21, 2020, 05:20:54 PM
Reports going around that mass gatherings are banned till August at the earliest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 21, 2020, 05:51:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 21, 2020, 05:20:54 PM
Reports going around that mass gatherings are banned till August at the earliest.

is that 2020 or 2021?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 21, 2020, 05:55:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 21, 2020, 04:50:06 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 21, 2020, 04:35:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 21, 2020, 04:24:11 PM
Need to get everything back ASAP or there'll be nothing to go back to.

I've said it before but the figures are a mess. If they're worse than stated then ok perhaps we should continue lockdown but they're accurate then let's start to relax restrictions.

In the UK?

Even Andrew Neil is estimating that the UK death toll is nearer 24K than what they announce as hospital deaths every day!

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1252609977417695234 (https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1252609977417695234)

Even here in NI we're not sure of the impact on the Care sector as we'll only know more this friday due to the delay.

Figures need quantified. How many ppl normally die? What are the age groups? Do they have underlying conditions? What's our NHS capacity?
Can we ease restrictions in certain areas? I'm not suggesting opening pubs and clubs, but non essential shops, garden centres etc. Sensible restrictions must remain, but we need to get economy going as well.

From NY Times today:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage)

England and Wales, 33% excess deaths in a month; Spain 66%, NYC, nearly 300%
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: MayoBuck on April 21, 2020, 05:56:39 PM
No licences to be given for events of more than 5,000 people until September at earliest https://jrnl.ie/5080226
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on April 21, 2020, 06:20:21 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on April 21, 2020, 05:56:39 PM
No licences to be given for events of more than 5,000 people until September at earliest https://jrnl.ie/5080226

Ah well, I suppose it was to be expected, still the reality of no gaelic games in 2020 really sucks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on April 21, 2020, 06:25:40 PM
44 further deaths in the ROI. 730 in total since the outbreak began. 388 new cases confirmed a total of 16,040 confirmed.

55% of patients who were tested positive with this virus have fully recovered.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 21, 2020, 07:01:52 PM
Quote from: joemamas on April 21, 2020, 06:20:21 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on April 21, 2020, 05:56:39 PM
No licences to be given for events of more than 5,000 people until September at earliest https://jrnl.ie/5080226

Ah well, I suppose it was to be expected, still the reality of no gaelic games in 2020 really sucks.

Have an AI decided by free kicking, it could be Monaghan's year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on April 21, 2020, 08:17:23 PM
Any thoughts on the trials being started in Oxford on Friday ?  is it a shot in the dark and has it a real shot at success or somewhere in between. 

Irelands new cases have slowed for the 3rd day in a row.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on April 21, 2020, 08:30:09 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 03:10:21 PM
Don't forget 90% of deaths have underlying problems happening

Ignoring that this is a completely unverified statistic, so what?

Fúck sick people. Fúck old people. Let them die so we can get back to the office and the pub? Is that it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 21, 2020, 09:03:12 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 21, 2020, 08:30:09 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 03:10:21 PM
Don't forget 90% of deaths have underlying problems happening

Ignoring that this is a completely unverified statistic, so what?

Fúck sick people. Fúck old people. Let them die so we can get back to the office and the pub? Is that it?

Underlying conditions include Asthma, Type 2 Diabetes, COPD.

Nobody belonging to you fall into that category Smurf?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 21, 2020, 09:13:27 PM
Quote from: joemamas on April 21, 2020, 06:20:21 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on April 21, 2020, 05:56:39 PM
No licences to be given for events of more than 5,000 people until September at earliest https://jrnl.ie/5080226

Ah well, I suppose it was to be expected, still the reality of no gaelic games in 2020 really sucks.

Errr - that'll not stop club games.

You could see a compressed club championship run off late in the year.

Not that I think its a great idea to be honest. Better to shelve the whole thing for the year I think.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 10:13:44 PM
A UK manufacturing company is opening up tomorrow to produce PPE for Ireland! The UK government aren't not using him despite him making his company available!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 22, 2020, 10:33:54 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 10:13:44 PM
A UK manufacturing company is opening up tomorrow to produce PPE for Ireland! The UK government aren't not using him despite him making his company available!

You see that article in the bbc?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-52358036

What else can be said at this point...?

But sure they are "working hard" to secure PPE when someone is knocking on their door to offer it and they won't answer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on April 22, 2020, 10:35:30 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 22, 2020, 10:33:54 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 10:13:44 PM
A UK manufacturing company is opening up tomorrow to produce PPE for Ireland! The UK government aren't not using him despite him making his company available!

You see that article in the bbc?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-52358036

What else can be said at this point...?

But sure they are "working hard" to secure PPE when someone is knocking on their door to offer it and they won't answer.

I've seen several business owners on twitter who've PPE ready to go but have been continually ignored by the government.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 22, 2020, 10:46:33 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on April 21, 2020, 08:17:23 PM
Any thoughts on the trials being started in Oxford on Friday ?  is it a shot in the dark and has it a real shot at success or somewhere in between. 

Irelands new cases have slowed for the 3rd day in a row.
Hopefully more successful than the Hydroxychloroquine touted by Trump got the past few weeks.
A trial does not guarantee success. Is it a vaccine, a cure or a test they are working on?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 22, 2020, 10:47:52 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 22, 2020, 10:35:30 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 22, 2020, 10:33:54 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 10:13:44 PM
A UK manufacturing company is opening up tomorrow to produce PPE for Ireland! The UK government aren't not using him despite him making his company available!

You see that article in the bbc?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-52358036

What else can be said at this point...?

But sure they are "working hard" to secure PPE when someone is knocking on their door to offer it and they won't answer.

I've seen several business owners on twitter who've PPE ready to go but have been continually ignored by the government.

Is there more to it and they're not meeting standards or something?

I am giving them benefit of the doubt mind but the tories really are not to be trusted and have put lives on the line.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 22, 2020, 10:48:47 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 22, 2020, 10:35:30 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 22, 2020, 10:33:54 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 10:13:44 PM
A UK manufacturing company is opening up tomorrow to produce PPE for Ireland! The UK government aren't not using him despite him making his company available!

You see that article in the bbc?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-52358036

What else can be said at this point...?

But sure they are "working hard" to secure PPE when someone is knocking on their door to offer it and they won't answer.

I've seen several business owners on twitter who've PPE ready to go but have been continually ignored by the government.

I assumed that if it were on the front page of the propaganda machine that is the BBC that it would be very widespread and just unreported.

No surprise that it was a local Merseyside report that got bumped briefly to main site due to popularity and has now been buried by London.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 22, 2020, 10:49:58 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 22, 2020, 10:47:52 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 22, 2020, 10:35:30 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 22, 2020, 10:33:54 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 10:13:44 PM
A UK manufacturing company is opening up tomorrow to produce PPE for Ireland! The UK government aren't not using him despite him making his company available!

You see that article in the bbc?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-52358036

What else can be said at this point...?

But sure they are "working hard" to secure PPE when someone is knocking on their door to offer it and they won't answer.

I've seen several business owners on twitter who've PPE ready to go but have been continually ignored by the government.

Is there more to it and they're not meeting standards or something?

I am giving them benefit of the doubt mind but the tories really are not to be trusted and have put lives on the line.

You know what you do - you answer the phone, ascertain if it is to standards and if not, see what can be done to bring it into line.

No benefit of doubt for me. Incompetent or worse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 22, 2020, 10:51:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 22, 2020, 10:47:52 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 22, 2020, 10:35:30 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 22, 2020, 10:33:54 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 10:13:44 PM
A UK manufacturing company is opening up tomorrow to produce PPE for Ireland! The UK government aren't not using him despite him making his company available!

You see that article in the bbc?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-52358036

What else can be said at this point...?

But sure they are "working hard" to secure PPE when someone is knocking on their door to offer it and they won't answer.

I've seen several business owners on twitter who've PPE ready to go but have been continually ignored by the government.

Is there more to it and they're not meeting standards or something?

I am giving them benefit of the doubt mind but the tories really are not to be trusted and have put lives on the line.
I think it has more to do with procurement rules and the number of offers they received. They need to filter out the scams from genuine then financial and regular audits before set up of the supplier contracts. There was a good thread on twitter but I cannot find it now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on April 22, 2020, 10:53:33 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 22, 2020, 10:46:33 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on April 21, 2020, 08:17:23 PM
Any thoughts on the trials being started in Oxford on Friday ?  is it a shot in the dark and has it a real shot at success or somewhere in between. 

Irelands new cases have slowed for the 3rd day in a row.
Hopefully more successful than the Hydroxychloroquine touted by Trump got the past few weeks.
A trial does not guarantee success. Is it a vaccine, a cure or a test they are working on?

Its a vaccine, Oxford seem to think it has 80% of success but you would have to think that is pretty optimistic or else it is incredible work they are doing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 22, 2020, 10:54:14 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 22, 2020, 10:49:58 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 22, 2020, 10:47:52 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 22, 2020, 10:35:30 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 22, 2020, 10:33:54 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2020, 10:13:44 PM
A UK manufacturing company is opening up tomorrow to produce PPE for Ireland! The UK government aren't not using him despite him making his company available!

You see that article in the bbc?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-52358036

What else can be said at this point...?

But sure they are "working hard" to secure PPE when someone is knocking on their door to offer it and they won't answer.

I've seen several business owners on twitter who've PPE ready to go but have been continually ignored by the government.

Is there more to it and they're not meeting standards or something?

I am giving them benefit of the doubt mind but the tories really are not to be trusted and have put lives on the line.

You know what you do - you answer the phone, ascertain if it is to standards and if not, see what can be done to bring it into line.

No benefit of doubt for me. Incompetent or worse.
Don't worry about the Nigerian princes?
Look at the balls Trump made of the PR electricity network reconstruction, $m contracts handed out to a 1 man band operating out of his garage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 22, 2020, 10:55:30 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 22, 2020, 10:51:43 AM
I think it has more to do with procurement rules and the number of offers they received. They need to filter out the scams from genuine then financial and regular audits before set up of the supplier contracts. There was a good thread on twitter but I cannot find it now.

"Where are you manufacturing the items?"

"Phil The Greek's shed, Buckingham Palace"

"OK, we'll send a police car around to quickly inspect and make sure you are actually set up to make them."

Initial procurement is for limited run and its slowly ramped up as confidence is gained in the supplier.


Its not rocket science - but obviously beyond this f**king shower in Westminster and Whitehall.


Note - if manufacturing is outside UK, then process would be very different.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 22, 2020, 10:56:50 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on April 22, 2020, 10:53:33 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 22, 2020, 10:46:33 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on April 21, 2020, 08:17:23 PM
Any thoughts on the trials being started in Oxford on Friday ?  is it a shot in the dark and has it a real shot at success or somewhere in between. 

Irelands new cases have slowed for the 3rd day in a row.
Hopefully more successful than the Hydroxychloroquine touted by Trump got the past few weeks.
A trial does not guarantee success. Is it a vaccine, a cure or a test they are working on?

Its a vaccine, Oxford seem to think it has 80% of success but you would have to think that is pretty optimistic or else it is incredible work they are doing
Scientists do manage to produce a new flu vaccine every year so it is possible. Proving it and getting mass production and distribution will still take a bit of time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on April 22, 2020, 11:33:50 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 22, 2020, 10:56:50 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on April 22, 2020, 10:53:33 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 22, 2020, 10:46:33 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on April 21, 2020, 08:17:23 PM
Any thoughts on the trials being started in Oxford on Friday ?  is it a shot in the dark and has it a real shot at success or somewhere in between. 

Irelands new cases have slowed for the 3rd day in a row.
Hopefully more successful than the Hydroxychloroquine touted by Trump got the past few weeks.
A trial does not guarantee success. Is it a vaccine, a cure or a test they are working on?

Its a vaccine, Oxford seem to think it has 80% of success but you would have to think that is pretty optimistic or else it is incredible work they are doing
Scientists do manage to produce a new flu vaccine every year so it is possible. Proving it and getting mass production and distribution will still take a bit of time.

They're hoping to be able to use it in the autumn. If initial trials are successful I'd say you could see it being used for the frontline NHS workers and also the most vulnerable in society. Then next spring it'd be rolled out for everyone else. For that to happen everything would need to go perfectly at each stage which is a long shot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 22, 2020, 12:04:00 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 22, 2020, 11:33:50 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 22, 2020, 10:56:50 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on April 22, 2020, 10:53:33 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 22, 2020, 10:46:33 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on April 21, 2020, 08:17:23 PM
Any thoughts on the trials being started in Oxford on Friday ?  is it a shot in the dark and has it a real shot at success or somewhere in between. 

Irelands new cases have slowed for the 3rd day in a row.
Hopefully more successful than the Hydroxychloroquine touted by Trump got the past few weeks.
A trial does not guarantee success. Is it a vaccine, a cure or a test they are working on?

Its a vaccine, Oxford seem to think it has 80% of success but you would have to think that is pretty optimistic or else it is incredible work they are doing
Scientists do manage to produce a new flu vaccine every year so it is possible. Proving it and getting mass production and distribution will still take a bit of time.

They're hoping to be able to use it in the autumn. If initial trials are successful I'd say you could see it being used for the frontline NHS workers and also the most vulnerable in society. Then next spring it'd be rolled out for everyone else. For that to happen everything would need to go perfectly at each stage which is a long shot.

Oxford and also a London university are working on vaccines, but as it was mentioned last night 4 out of every 5 vaccines get binned during the trial phase.

Here's hoping though!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 22, 2020, 12:25:33 PM
Bill Gates speaking on BBC news last week even with a rushed vaccine it will take 18 months for it all to be approved. He said normally it would take between 4 and 5 years in normal circumstances. We are in this for the Long haul.
On a side note parks allowed to open cemeteries are not?
Are our government stupid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 22, 2020, 12:41:46 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 22, 2020, 12:25:33 PM
Bill Gates speaking on BBC news last week even with a rushed vaccine it will take 18 months for it all to be approved. He said normally it would take between 4 and 5 years in normal circumstances. We are in this for the Long haul.
On a side note parks allowed to open cemeteries are not?
Are our government stupid?

The Govt probably concede that people are starting to probably (in Ireland) disregard the rules at this stage with regards to walking, exercise. This is probably them giving back a little to avoid mass disobedience (Which is something that would maybe become a factor the better the weather gets and a strict lockdown in place).Lets be honest - what can they do only throw a few rocks in front of a car park.

I don't really know why they have decided to keep cemeteries closed, maybe an emotional aspect. People hugging - people meeting up from various households.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 22, 2020, 12:50:39 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 22, 2020, 12:25:33 PM
Bill Gates speaking on BBC news last week even with a rushed vaccine it will take 18 months for it all to be approved. He said normally it would take between 4 and 5 years in normal circumstances. We are in this for the Long haul.
On a side note parks allowed to open cemeteries are not?
Are our government stupid?

Could also replace the word parks with off licences. It's crazy. Open the damn graveyards.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 22, 2020, 12:52:38 PM
Yes open them up. What harm will anyone do? Everyone is being careful. Really do not know how the clowns at stormont can't see this.
Parks and Off licences open
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 22, 2020, 12:53:56 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 22, 2020, 12:04:00 PM
Oxford and also a London university are working on vaccines, but as it was mentioned last night 4 out of every 5 vaccines get binned during the trial phase.

Here's hoping though!

There are something like 40 vaccine projects, so 4 out of 5 still leaves a few horses in the race, you only need one good one.
They are also trying every known drug on this virus, again most of these do not work but there are so many candidates that a few might prove useful. Perhaps a combination of these could be effective in turning the virus from life-threatening to a few days in hospital for most people.
For instance Ivermectin, which is already produced in huge quantities for animals and which had been used by people for 30 years
https://www.thepharmaletter.com/article/ivermectin-can-kill-covid-19-within-48-hours-monash-university-study-finds
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on April 22, 2020, 12:54:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 22, 2020, 12:50:39 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 22, 2020, 12:25:33 PM
Bill Gates speaking on BBC news last week even with a rushed vaccine it will take 18 months for it all to be approved. He said normally it would take between 4 and 5 years in normal circumstances. We are in this for the Long haul.
On a side note parks allowed to open cemeteries are not?
Are our government stupid?

Could also replace the word parks with off licences. It's crazy. Open the damn graveyards.

Agreed, I think they need to open.  There's no more of a risk there than there is with ones out walking up and down footpaths.

With regard to off licences, there's a pretty delicate balance being struck between what they'd like to do to stamp out the virus and what the public will realistically accept.  The Americans are hovering around that line in certain, less mentally advantaged areas, shall we say.  Allowing people to have a beer means that they are probably a little more tolerant of some of the other restrictions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on April 22, 2020, 01:11:19 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 22, 2020, 12:54:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 22, 2020, 12:50:39 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 22, 2020, 12:25:33 PM
Bill Gates speaking on BBC news last week even with a rushed vaccine it will take 18 months for it all to be approved. He said normally it would take between 4 and 5 years in normal circumstances. We are in this for the Long haul.
On a side note parks allowed to open cemeteries are not?
Are our government stupid?

Could also replace the word parks with off licences. It's crazy. Open the damn graveyards.

Agreed, I think they need to open.  There's no more of a risk there than there is with ones out walking up and down footpaths.

With regard to off licences, there's a pretty delicate balance being struck between what they'd like to do to stamp out the virus and what the public will realistically accept.  The Americans are hovering around that line in certain, less mentally advantaged areas, shall we say.  Allowing people to have a beer means that they are probably a little more tolerant of some of the other restrictions.

Or if you close off licences, you'll get people wandering into Tesco and Aldi every hour of the day for 6-packs, making supermarkets even more treacherous to work in, and even more frustrating to visit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 22, 2020, 01:20:41 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 22, 2020, 01:11:19 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 22, 2020, 12:54:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 22, 2020, 12:50:39 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 22, 2020, 12:25:33 PM
Bill Gates speaking on BBC news last week even with a rushed vaccine it will take 18 months for it all to be approved. He said normally it would take between 4 and 5 years in normal circumstances. We are in this for the Long haul.
On a side note parks allowed to open cemeteries are not?
Are our government stupid?

Could also replace the word parks with off licences. It's crazy. Open the damn graveyards.

Agreed, I think they need to open.  There's no more of a risk there than there is with ones out walking up and down footpaths.

With regard to off licences, there's a pretty delicate balance being struck between what they'd like to do to stamp out the virus and what the public will realistically accept.  The Americans are hovering around that line in certain, less mentally advantaged areas, shall we say.  Allowing people to have a beer means that they are probably a little more tolerant of some of the other restrictions.

Or if you close off licences, you'll get people wandering into Tesco and Aldi every hour of the day for 6-packs, making supermarkets even more treacherous to work in, and even more frustrating to visit.

Stop supermarkets selling alcohol and use the shelves for sanitiser or something useful.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on April 22, 2020, 01:38:48 PM
So you're demanding prohibition Armaghiac?


You need out of the house for a while lad... you're losing the plot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 22, 2020, 01:52:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 22, 2020, 01:20:41 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 22, 2020, 01:11:19 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 22, 2020, 12:54:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 22, 2020, 12:50:39 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 22, 2020, 12:25:33 PM
Bill Gates speaking on BBC news last week even with a rushed vaccine it will take 18 months for it all to be approved. He said normally it would take between 4 and 5 years in normal circumstances. We are in this for the Long haul.
On a side note parks allowed to open cemeteries are not?
Are our government stupid?

Could also replace the word parks with off licences. It's crazy. Open the damn graveyards.

Agreed, I think they need to open.  There's no more of a risk there than there is with ones out walking up and down footpaths.

With regard to off licences, there's a pretty delicate balance being struck between what they'd like to do to stamp out the virus and what the public will realistically accept.  The Americans are hovering around that line in certain, less mentally advantaged areas, shall we say.  Allowing people to have a beer means that they are probably a little more tolerant of some of the other restrictions.

Or if you close off licences, you'll get people wandering into Tesco and Aldi every hour of the day for 6-packs, making supermarkets even more treacherous to work in, and even more frustrating to visit.

Stop supermarkets selling alcohol and use the shelves for sanitiser or something useful.

Wise up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 22, 2020, 02:39:55 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 22, 2020, 01:38:48 PM
So you're demanding prohibition Armaghiac?

One should be able to utilise one's cellar for a few weeks, or just do without.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 22, 2020, 02:53:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 22, 2020, 10:55:30 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 22, 2020, 10:51:43 AM
I think it has more to do with procurement rules and the number of offers they received. They need to filter out the scams from genuine then financial and regular audits before set up of the supplier contracts. There was a good thread on twitter but I cannot find it now.

"Where are you manufacturing the items?"

"Phil The Greek's shed, Buckingham Palace"

"OK, we'll send a police car around to quickly inspect and make sure you are actually set up to make them."

Initial procurement is for limited run and its slowly ramped up as confidence is gained in the supplier.


Its not rocket science - but obviously beyond this f**king shower in Westminster and Whitehall.


Note - if manufacturing is outside UK, then process would be very different.
With 8000 applications and the high volumes required they cannot start with Phil making 20 masks in the garden shed and associated inspections. They need the big well defined operations who will tick all the noxes and hit the ground running.
I am not defending their efforts at doing this, just pointing out it is a bit more than send the police for a drive by and start writing cheques. PR rebuilding is a warning against that approach.
With the thousands of applicants not everyone will get an immediate ring back.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hardy on April 22, 2020, 02:54:54 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 22, 2020, 01:20:41 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 22, 2020, 01:11:19 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 22, 2020, 12:54:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 22, 2020, 12:50:39 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 22, 2020, 12:25:33 PM
Bill Gates speaking on BBC news last week even with a rushed vaccine it will take 18 months for it all to be approved. He said normally it would take between 4 and 5 years in normal circumstances. We are in this for the Long haul.
On a side note parks allowed to open cemeteries are not?
Are our government stupid?

Could also replace the word parks with off licences. It's crazy. Open the damn graveyards.

Agreed, I think they need to open.  There's no more of a risk there than there is with ones out walking up and down footpaths.

With regard to off licences, there's a pretty delicate balance being struck between what they'd like to do to stamp out the virus and what the public will realistically accept.  The Americans are hovering around that line in certain, less mentally advantaged areas, shall we say.  Allowing people to have a beer means that they are probably a little more tolerant of some of the other restrictions.

Or if you close off licences, you'll get people wandering into Tesco and Aldi every hour of the day for 6-packs, making supermarkets even more treacherous to work in, and even more frustrating to visit.

Stop supermarkets selling alcohol and use the shelves for sanitiser or something useful.

But what's the sanitiser made of?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hardy on April 22, 2020, 03:00:10 PM
I regularly see footage on the news of Garda officers checking that the distancing and isolation rules are being observed by sticking their heads into people's cars. And then standing shoulder to shoulder as they await the next car.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 22, 2020, 03:14:32 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 22, 2020, 02:53:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 22, 2020, 10:55:30 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 22, 2020, 10:51:43 AM
I think it has more to do with procurement rules and the number of offers they received. They need to filter out the scams from genuine then financial and regular audits before set up of the supplier contracts. There was a good thread on twitter but I cannot find it now.

"Where are you manufacturing the items?"

"Phil The Greek's shed, Buckingham Palace"

"OK, we'll send a police car around to quickly inspect and make sure you are actually set up to make them."

Initial procurement is for limited run and its slowly ramped up as confidence is gained in the supplier.


Its not rocket science - but obviously beyond this f**king shower in Westminster and Whitehall.


Note - if manufacturing is outside UK, then process would be very different.
With 8000 applications and the high volumes required they cannot start with Phil making 20 masks in the garden shed and associated inspections. They need the big well defined operations who will tick all the noxes and hit the ground running.
I am not defending their efforts at doing this, just pointing out it is a bit more than send the police for a drive by and start writing cheques. PR rebuilding is a warning against that approach.
With the thousands of applicants not everyone will get an immediate ring back.

What?!?!

When you consider how many civil servants there are that would be otherwise managing any amount of things* that are on pause right now - 8000 applications is a pitiful number. There are probably at least 5 idle civil servants per application right now.

An initial low rate order would still be of the hundreds per week.


It beggars belief they are not receiving at least a quick call back with a query as to whether they are manufacturing to standards or not. That is literally a 2 minute phone call to at least whittle down what might be quickly a viable source. 34 man-days to cover all 8000 applications with that. 10 people will cover that in a week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 22, 2020, 03:24:15 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 22, 2020, 02:54:54 PM
But what's the sanitiser made of?

If you are stuck, I suppose you could drink it.

Quote from: Hardy on April 22, 2020, 03:00:10 PM
I regularly see footage on the news of Garda officers checking that the distancing and isolation rules are being observed by sticking their heads into people's cars. And then standing shoulder to shoulder as they await the next car.

There is no doubt that they have not been setting a good example, although I noticed on yesterday's coverage they had masks.
The standing together isn't perfect, but they have been divided in to teams, so they stand beside the same person every day to mitigate the damage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on April 22, 2020, 05:06:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 22, 2020, 01:20:41 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 22, 2020, 01:11:19 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 22, 2020, 12:54:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 22, 2020, 12:50:39 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 22, 2020, 12:25:33 PM
Bill Gates speaking on BBC news last week even with a rushed vaccine it will take 18 months for it all to be approved. He said normally it would take between 4 and 5 years in normal circumstances. We are in this for the Long haul.
On a side note parks allowed to open cemeteries are not?
Are our government stupid?

Could also replace the word parks with off licences. It's crazy. Open the damn graveyards.

Agreed, I think they need to open.  There's no more of a risk there than there is with ones out walking up and down footpaths.

With regard to off licences, there's a pretty delicate balance being struck between what they'd like to do to stamp out the virus and what the public will realistically accept.  The Americans are hovering around that line in certain, less mentally advantaged areas, shall we say.  Allowing people to have a beer means that they are probably a little more tolerant of some of the other restrictions.

Or if you close off licences, you'll get people wandering into Tesco and Aldi every hour of the day for 6-packs, making supermarkets even more treacherous to work in, and even more frustrating to visit.

Stop supermarkets selling alcohol and use the shelves for sanitiser or something useful.

If lack of shelf space in supermarkets was an issue, that would be a good idea.

As it is, not so much.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on April 22, 2020, 05:32:49 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 22, 2020, 12:25:33 PM
Bill Gates speaking on BBC news last week even with a rushed vaccine it will take 18 months for it all to be approved. He said normally it would take between 4 and 5 years in normal circumstances. We are in this for the Long haul.
On a side note parks allowed to open cemeteries are not?
Are our government stupid?
5 years maybe to eradicate, but few if any viruses get eradicated, they get managed, so a much much shorter timescale is highly likely for an effective vaccine. Think I read somewhere Smallpox was the only virus that has been totally eradicated, the rest linger in the shadows.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 22, 2020, 08:40:12 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 22, 2020, 03:00:10 PM
I regularly see footage on the news of Garda officers checking that the distancing and isolation rules are being observed by sticking their heads into people's cars. And then standing shoulder to shoulder as they await the next car.

Watch your tv and you will see An Taoiseach so obsessed in looking good at his photo/video shoots that he frequently breaches social distancing rules for all to see. The only type of Doctor that man can now claim to be is a spin doctor.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2020, 08:56:12 PM
Looking at the figures for Portugal (twice population of all Ireland) are they doing anything different to the rest of that area (Spain) ?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on April 22, 2020, 09:23:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 22, 2020, 08:40:12 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 22, 2020, 03:00:10 PM
I regularly see footage on the news of Garda officers checking that the distancing and isolation rules are being observed by sticking their heads into people's cars. And then standing shoulder to shoulder as they await the next car.

Watch your tv and you will see An Taoiseach so obsessed in looking good at his photo/video shoots that he frequently breaches social distancing rules for all to see. The only type of Doctor that man can now claim to be is a spin doctor.
Has he not donned the stethoscope and done a few stints in the trenches, or was that all another spin?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 22, 2020, 09:29:07 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 22, 2020, 09:23:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 22, 2020, 08:40:12 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 22, 2020, 03:00:10 PM
I regularly see footage on the news of Garda officers checking that the distancing and isolation rules are being observed by sticking their heads into people's cars. And then standing shoulder to shoulder as they await the next car.

Watch your tv and you will see An Taoiseach so obsessed in looking good at his photo/video shoots that he frequently breaches social distancing rules for all to see. The only type of Doctor that man can now claim to be is a spin doctor.
Has he not donned the stethoscope and done a few stints in the trenches, or was that all another spin?

I'm sure he donned one for a photoshoot somewhere
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Downtothewire on April 22, 2020, 10:29:41 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 22, 2020, 09:23:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 22, 2020, 08:40:12 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 22, 2020, 03:00:10 PM
I regularly see footage on the news of Garda officers checking that the distancing and isolation rules are being observed by sticking their heads into people's cars. And then standing shoulder to shoulder as they await the next car.

Watch your tv and you will see An Taoiseach so obsessed in looking good at his photo/video shoots that he frequently breaches social distancing rules for all to see. The only type of Doctor that man can now claim to be is a spin doctor.
Has he not donned the stethoscope and done a few stints in the trenches, or was that all another spin?

He went to a contact tracing centre few Sunday's ago got the photo taken with phoned in hand. RTÉ spun it that he was back working as a doctor for HSE. Don't know who is worse him or them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 23, 2020, 09:24:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2020, 08:56:12 PM
Looking at the figures for Portugal (twice population of all Ireland) are they doing anything different to the rest of that area (Spain) ?

Not too sure but again, Lisbon - 500k population. Madrid must be around 4/5 million odd. Pretty much a numbers game?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 23, 2020, 02:29:23 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/jaw-dropping-confidential-memo-warns-of-divisive-phase-1.4235481

In a note sent to the Cabinet from the Department of the Taoiseach this week, Ministers were told that while the initial stage was "both swift and unprecedented, and was experienced by everyone together and in a relatively unified spirit", this may change as the long-term effects come into play.

"This includes unemployment, reduced income, increased debt, closure of businesses, reduced educational opportunities, restrictions on movement and social interactions, and ultimately the loss of loved ones."

The note, the tone of which was described as "jaw-dropping" by sources, outlined the challenges ahead, such as the difficulty of opening some sections of the economy and not others, reducing income supports and tightening procedures for those entering the country, as well as opportunities.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 23, 2020, 03:47:34 PM
I don't people will accept the government enforcing these restrictions long term. As more and more businesses close permanently people will start to realise that there livelihoods are gone forever. Imagine someone who's 50+ losing their job? It could take years to get the economy going again, that person maybe unemployed for the rest for their lives.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 23, 2020, 03:59:48 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 23, 2020, 03:47:34 PM
I don't people will accept the government enforcing these restrictions long term. As more and more businesses close permanently people will start to realise that there livelihoods are gone forever. Imagine someone who's 50+ losing their job? It could take years to get the economy going again, that person maybe unemployed for the rest for their lives.

US states like Georgia are doing a dry run for everyone else, opening things up again in the middle of this.

Let's see how that goes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on April 23, 2020, 04:06:20 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 23, 2020, 09:24:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2020, 08:56:12 PM
Looking at the figures for Portugal (twice population of all Ireland) are they doing anything different to the rest of that area (Spain) ?

Not too sure but again, Lisbon - 500k population. Madrid must be around 4/5 million odd. Pretty much a numbers game?

https://www.politico.eu/article/how-portugal-became-europes-coronavirus-exception/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/19/swift-action-kept-portugals-coronavirus-crisis-in-check-says-minister

tl;dr - they had the advantages of a smaller population and later arrival of the virus. And they actually put those advantages to use, unlike other countries that sat on their hands during crucial weeks in early March.

From one of the above links:

SPEED OF RESPONSE - Number of days that had passed between the third death caused by COVID-19 in each country and the implementation of each measure in that country.

(https://images.jifo.co/14978916_1586353616114.png)
*A value of zero days is displayed when the measure was implemented before the third death caused by COVID-19 was registered in the country. Regional differences in Germany.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 04:29:15 PM
Domestic Violence up
Cancer patients waiting list up
Depression up
Economy on a tread
Businesses ruined
Education stopped


Time to get this thing going again whilst keeping social distancing in place where possible.
Things need to start moving again
We are stuck with this for 2 years minimum
It's either live like this for a few years or get back on the saddle
Lives will be lost no doubt
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 23, 2020, 05:10:33 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 04:29:15 PM
Time to get this thing going again whilst keeping social distancing in place where possible.

Please stop. Your coming across like a fukkin redneck american.

Whenever there are either:
-- antibody tests available in significant numbers or
-- significant actively infected weekly test rates
then it makes sense to look at relaxing measures as you've the information to quickly guide the effect of any relaxation before its too late.

Before that point, doing something stupid could easily kill tens of thousands of people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 23, 2020, 05:43:17 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 23, 2020, 05:10:33 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 04:29:15 PM
Time to get this thing going again whilst keeping social distancing in place where possible.

Please stop. Your coming across like a fukkin redneck american.

Whenever there are either:
-- antibody tests available in significant numbers or
-- significant actively infected weekly test rates
then it makes sense to look at relaxing measures as you've the information to quickly guide the effect of any relaxation before its too late.

Before that point, doing something stupid could easily kill tens of thousands of people.

I agree with him. It's beyond a joke at this stage.

People not even getting cancer treatment because they're afraid to go to the hospital.

Families losing children and nobody allowed to go to funerals.

People in their 80s and 90s living alone  who haven't been in the same room as another human being for almost a month. Many of whom have not long to live in any event.

We are human beings, not robots. We cannot live like robots without massive and permanent damage.

Enough.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 23, 2020, 06:32:14 PM
Quote from: five points on April 23, 2020, 05:43:17 PM
I agree with him. It's beyond a joke at this stage.

People not even getting cancer treatment because they're afraid to go to the hospital.

This kind of comment reveals the callous nonsense underlying these random counterfactual rants about ending the lockdown. 

If the government abolishes the lockdown then people will not get cancer treatment and will still be afraid to go to the hospital because the hospitals will be full of people with the virus. The best thing for people with cancer is to greatly reduce the virus so that they can go to hospital, so they benefit from the lockdown.

Yes, we'd all like to have normal funerals etc but that is only possible if the virus is controlled, it isn't a question of bureaucratic directive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 23, 2020, 06:38:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 23, 2020, 06:32:14 PM
Quote from: five points on April 23, 2020, 05:43:17 PM
I agree with him. It's beyond a joke at this stage.

People not even getting cancer treatment because they're afraid to go to the hospital.

This kind of comment reveals the callous nonsense underlying these random counterfactual rants about ending the lockdown. 

If the government abolishes the lockdown then people will not get cancer treatment and will still be afraid to go to the hospital because the hospitals will be full of people with the virus. The best thing for people with cancer is to greatly reduce the virus so that they can go to hospital, so they benefit from the lockdown.

Yes, we'd all like to have normal funerals etc but that is only possible if the virus is controlled, it isn't a question of bureaucratic directive.

Okay then, stick with what's going on now, empty hospitals and almost nobody getting cancer treatment. It's a grim picture.  People are dying but not just of the virus.  https://www.derrynow.com/news/news/536178/the-cure-may-be-much-worse-than-the-disease-says-a-derry-doctor-who-describes-aspects-of-the-ongoing-coronavirus-lockdown-as-non-evidence-based-insanity.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 06:45:20 PM
So what do you expect until a vaccine is ready?
The quickest vaccine ever made was 4 years! EVER
The deaths in the north have been relatively low
Remember Robbie Swann predicted 15000 deaths even with lockdown.
Now he is saying 1500 maximum
If I hear one more time we are taking scientific advice I will throw the tv out
Now here's one
The scientists across the water have said Cheltenham and the Liverpool match cause no damage?
Work that one out
Life may return to normal
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 23, 2020, 06:47:11 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 06:45:20 PM

The scientists across the water have said Cheltenham and the Liverpool match cause no damage?
l

And the scientists in the south tell us we don't need masks, that they make things worse.  :o  F**k them, at this stage they're only covering their own backsides.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on April 23, 2020, 06:48:14 PM
Quote from: five points on April 23, 2020, 05:43:17 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 23, 2020, 05:10:33 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 04:29:15 PM
Time to get this thing going again whilst keeping social distancing in place where possible.

Please stop. Your coming across like a fukkin redneck american.

Whenever there are either:
-- antibody tests available in significant numbers or
-- significant actively infected weekly test rates
then it makes sense to look at relaxing measures as you've the information to quickly guide the effect of any relaxation before its too late.

Before that point, doing something stupid could easily kill tens of thousands of people.

I agree with him. It's beyond a joke at this stage.

People not even getting cancer treatment because they're afraid to go to the hospital.

Families losing children and nobody allowed to go to funerals.

People in their 80s and 90s living alone  who haven't been in the same room as another human being for almost a month. Many of whom have not long to live in any event.

We are human beings, not robots. We cannot live like robots without massive and permanent damage.

Enough.

What you're really after here is an end to the virus, not an end to the lockdown.

All of the issues mentioned above would be made worse by opening things up and letting the virus run riot. More stalled cancer treatment, more dead kids, more locked away vulnerable old people.

There might be a cold hard economic argument for ending the lockdown, but it's just bizarre to try to use public health issues as reasons to do so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 23, 2020, 07:23:35 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 06:45:20 PM
So what do you expect until a vaccine is ready?
The quickest vaccine ever made was 4 years! EVER
The deaths in the north have been relatively low
Remember Robbie Swann predicted 15000 deaths even with lockdown.
Now he is saying 1500 maximum
If I hear one more time we are taking scientific advice I will throw the tv out
Now here's one
The scientists across the water have said Cheltenham and the Liverpool match cause no damage?
Work that one out
Life may return to normal

Two days ago you claimed he predicted 2000 deaths.

What scientists have said that Cheltenham and Liverpool match did no damage?

Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 21, 2020, 10:13:15 AM
Robbie Swann said this morning that his early predictions of close to 2000 deaths are massively off the mark
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 07:32:12 PM
Sorry I did mean 15000. Check it out if you think it's Crap
The biggest recession to hit the world ever
Saying on channel 4 that's our children's children's children will be paying for it
Now that makes you sit up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 23, 2020, 07:51:15 PM
You meant 15,000 but typed 2,000 by mistake?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 07:57:05 PM
Yes Gallsman
What's the problem with that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 23, 2020, 07:59:34 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 07:57:05 PM
Yes Gallsman
What's the problem with that

Just seems a bit implausible to be honest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 23, 2020, 08:00:06 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 06:45:20 PM
So what do you expect until a vaccine is ready?
The quickest vaccine ever made was 4 years! EVER
The deaths in the north have been relatively low
Remember Robbie Swann predicted 15000 deaths even with lockdown.
Now he is saying 1500 maximum

This really takes the biscuit, you are using the success of the measures as a reason not to have the measures. 

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWErisYWoAUy4l4?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 23, 2020, 08:15:27 PM
Unless the restrictions are relaxed the country is going to be an awful mess. There'll be more dead from suicide, malnutrition, bankruptcy, and other untreated diseases than there will be of Coronavirus.
Maintain sensible social distancing rules but let's get back to work. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 23, 2020, 08:21:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 23, 2020, 08:15:27 PM
Unless the restrictions are relaxed the country is going to be an awful mess. There'll be more dead from suicide, malnutrition, bankruptcy, and other untreated diseases than there will be of Coronavirus.
Maintain sensible social distancing rules but let's get back to work.

Yes, of course. But we can't all go back to work until employers ensure that they have safe workplaces.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on April 23, 2020, 08:58:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 23, 2020, 08:15:27 PM
Unless the restrictions are relaxed the country is going to be an awful mess. There'll be more dead from suicide, malnutrition, bankruptcy, and other untreated diseases than there will be of Coronavirus.
Maintain sensible social distancing rules but let's get back to work.

Couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on April 23, 2020, 09:43:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 23, 2020, 08:15:27 PM
Unless the restrictions are relaxed the country is going to be an awful mess. There'll be more dead from suicide, malnutrition, bankruptcy, and other untreated diseases than there will be of Coronavirus.
Maintain sensible social distancing rules but let's get back to work.

Will there??? What figures are you basing this on??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 23, 2020, 09:46:14 PM
No one ever said 15k in ni. Sure they said if they were doing well 20k in the uk(though that ship has obviously sailed). I think Swann said 3k.

We need to get back to something at some point in the not that distant future but it needs to be very controlled. You can see more businesses opening even after initial lockdown period - e.g. b and q and numerous takeaways which were shut are becoming available. I think slowly more will open.

Good to see the psni can't make up reasons on the spot to fine people now too. They were a bit "discretionary".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 23, 2020, 09:55:50 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 23, 2020, 09:46:14 PM
No one ever said 15k in ni. Sure they said if they were doing well 20k in the uk(though that ship has obviously sailed). I think Swann said 3k.

We need to get back to something at some point in the not that distant future but it needs to be very controlled. You can see more businesses opening even after initial lockdown period - e.g. b and q and numerous takeaways which were shut are becoming available. I think slowly more will open.

Good to see the psni can't make up reasons on the spot to fine people now too. They were a bit "discretionary".

Swann said 15k.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-northern-ireland-cases-death-toll-health-minister-a9412706.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-northern-ireland-cases-death-toll-health-minister-a9412706.html)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 23, 2020, 09:57:18 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 23, 2020, 09:43:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 23, 2020, 08:15:27 PM
Unless the restrictions are relaxed the country is going to be an awful mess. There'll be more dead from suicide, malnutrition, bankruptcy, and other untreated diseases than there will be of Coronavirus.
Maintain sensible social distancing rules but let's get back to work.

Will there??? What figures are you basing this on??

f**k me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on April 23, 2020, 10:06:18 PM
What's your problem??

You've made a claim and I've asked you to back it up it's not that difficult!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 23, 2020, 10:07:53 PM
 ;D

You haven't read any of this guy's posts before then lol.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 23, 2020, 10:08:06 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 23, 2020, 06:48:14 PM
Quote from: five points on April 23, 2020, 05:43:17 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 23, 2020, 05:10:33 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 04:29:15 PM
Time to get this thing going again whilst keeping social distancing in place where possible.

Please stop. Your coming across like a fukkin redneck american.

Whenever there are either:
-- antibody tests available in significant numbers or
-- significant actively infected weekly test rates
then it makes sense to look at relaxing measures as you've the information to quickly guide the effect of any relaxation before its too late.

Before that point, doing something stupid could easily kill tens of thousands of people.

I agree with him. It's beyond a joke at this stage.

People not even getting cancer treatment because they're afraid to go to the hospital.

Families losing children and nobody allowed to go to funerals.

People in their 80s and 90s living alone  who haven't been in the same room as another human being for almost a month. Many of whom have not long to live in any event.

We are human beings, not robots. We cannot live like robots without massive and permanent damage.

Enough.

What you're really after here is an end to the virus, not an end to the lockdown.

All of the issues mentioned above would be made worse by opening things up and letting the virus run riot. More stalled cancer treatment, more dead kids, more locked away vulnerable old people.

There might be a cold hard economic argument for ending the lockdown, but it's just bizarre to try to use public health issues as reasons to do so.
You miss the obvious point that the lockdown will not get rid of the virus, it just postpones it until the health service can adapt to the rush in demand. The lockdown if continued over the summer will merely  push more cases into next winter.

Dunno about you but whenever I get it, I'd prefer not to have it in the dead of winter.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hereiam on April 23, 2020, 10:17:40 PM
The banks have to start doing more for people. The mortgage & loan payments etc need to be paused for everyone, no holiday just paused. These shower are calling the shots and the governments are doing their bidding. The virus isn't my biggest worry it the dam payments to the bank, another month of this and the work I am in will dry up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 10:22:28 PM
The scientist in England also said yesterday that the closure of schools was not that important.
No affect whatsoever on the data coming through that it made a difference
Work that out
Robbie Swann said 15k
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on April 23, 2020, 10:41:32 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 06:45:20 PM
So what do you expect until a vaccine is ready?
The quickest vaccine ever made was 4 years! EVER
The deaths in the north have been relatively low
Remember Robbie Swann predicted 15000 deaths even with lockdown.
Now he is saying 1500 maximum

Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 10:22:28 PM
Robbie Swann said 15k

You're telling fibs. Here's what Swann said:

"If we fail as a community to take the necessary action to slow down the transmission of the virus, up to 80% of the Northern Ireland population could be infected during this pandemic," he stated.

"If all the public health advice is ignored, in a worst case nightmare scenario and with a fatality rate of 1%, then that could mean up to 14,000 to 15,000 lives lost."

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-15000-could-die-as-ni-faces-a-surge-of-biblical-proportions-warns-health-minister-swann-39059630.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 10:43:37 PM
Yes he said it Ed
Am I missing something here?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on April 23, 2020, 10:45:40 PM
Quote from: five points on April 23, 2020, 10:08:06 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 23, 2020, 06:48:14 PM
Quote from: five points on April 23, 2020, 05:43:17 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 23, 2020, 05:10:33 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 04:29:15 PM
Time to get this thing going again whilst keeping social distancing in place where possible.

Please stop. Your coming across like a fukkin redneck american.

Whenever there are either:
-- antibody tests available in significant numbers or
-- significant actively infected weekly test rates
then it makes sense to look at relaxing measures as you've the information to quickly guide the effect of any relaxation before its too late.

Before that point, doing something stupid could easily kill tens of thousands of people.

I agree with him. It's beyond a joke at this stage.

People not even getting cancer treatment because they're afraid to go to the hospital.

Families losing children and nobody allowed to go to funerals.

People in their 80s and 90s living alone  who haven't been in the same room as another human being for almost a month. Many of whom have not long to live in any event.

We are human beings, not robots. We cannot live like robots without massive and permanent damage.

Enough.

What you're really after here is an end to the virus, not an end to the lockdown.

All of the issues mentioned above would be made worse by opening things up and letting the virus run riot. More stalled cancer treatment, more dead kids, more locked away vulnerable old people.

There might be a cold hard economic argument for ending the lockdown, but it's just bizarre to try to use public health issues as reasons to do so.
You miss the obvious point that the lockdown will not get rid of the virus, it just postpones it until the health service can adapt to the rush in demand. The lockdown if continued over the summer will merely  push more cases into next winter.

Dunno about you but whenever I get it, I'd prefer not to have it in the dead of winter.

The lockdown restrictions will ease as infection rates fall to a manageable level. This is pretty obvious.

The lockdown restrictions will not ease just because some lads are getting a bit fed up with the situation and start wishing for things to go back to normal. This is also pretty obvious.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on April 23, 2020, 10:50:29 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 10:43:37 PM
Yes he said it Ed
Am I missing something here?

Yeah, you seem to be missing about half the words in your original claim. The ones highlighted below:

Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 06:45:20 PM
Remember Robbie Swann predicted 15000 deaths even with lockdown.

It's clear his was a worst case scenario, not a 'predicted' one.

It's also clear this figure was arrived at on the assumption of no lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 23, 2020, 10:56:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 23, 2020, 09:55:50 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 23, 2020, 09:46:14 PM
No one ever said 15k in ni. Sure they said if they were doing well 20k in the uk(though that ship has obviously sailed). I think Swann said 3k.

We need to get back to something at some point in the not that distant future but it needs to be very controlled. You can see more businesses opening even after initial lockdown period - e.g. b and q and numerous takeaways which were shut are becoming available. I think slowly more will open.

Good to see the psni can't make up reasons on the spot to fine people now too. They were a bit "discretionary".

Swann said 15k.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-northern-ireland-cases-death-toll-health-minister-a9412706.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-northern-ireland-cases-death-toll-health-minister-a9412706.html)

That was a worst case scenario where nobody follows public health guidelines.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 23, 2020, 11:05:51 PM
I guess some people are just so f**king stupid they cannot see what was happening in Italy and the trajectory of things before they brought in a complete lockdown.

Freedumb indeed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 23, 2020, 11:12:10 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 10:43:37 PM
Yes he said it Ed
Am I missing something here?

As shown, you're "missing" nothing, except perhaps a few brain cells What you're doing is attempting to peddle misinformation and hoping that people are stupid enough to miss the detail in your calculated nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 23, 2020, 11:15:22 PM
Arlene on the view, nut job
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 23, 2020, 11:19:17 PM
People already giving up. Roads busier. Saw lots of teenagers together. Older people out and about. The  game is up. This isn't a solution. Proper sensible measures, but let's get back to work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 23, 2020, 11:21:49 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 23, 2020, 10:06:18 PM
What's your problem??

You've made a claim and I've asked you to back it up it's not that difficult!!

When this comes to pass, I'll count up the numbers and send them to you. Until then brush up on English tenses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 23, 2020, 11:31:22 PM
Facts.

There isn't enough tests
There won't be enough tests
The virus is everywhere
We (or at least our Government) cannot come up with a sensible plan
A vaccine is at best is 18months away
We must learn to live with it

In a different world we'd have a competent government with a competent CMO who knew what to do. But we don't. Sitting at home is not a long term solution.

Liberate the 6 counties!!! (Tongue in cheek)


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 23, 2020, 11:35:27 PM
Have to agree with trailer
Yes we slow the curve
This is not a long term solution
The virus is here to stay until we get a vaccine
We need to change the way we now go about things in life
Social distancing
If sick isolate
Wash hands
We need to open up the shops and offices
I need to get back to work
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hereiam on April 23, 2020, 11:41:14 PM
The roads were definitely busier this evening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 23, 2020, 11:52:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 23, 2020, 11:19:17 PM
People already giving up. Roads busier. Saw lots of teenagers together. Older people out and about. The  game is up. This isn't a solution. Proper sensible measures, but let's get back to work.
Right you have said that a few times now. What'does that mean? My understanding is that if your work place is able to introduce social distancing measures there is no reason why you shouldn't be working. Obviously workplaces that are interacting with the public in a big way are more risky and would need to be looked at once certain conditions are met, like retail etc. So given the current position we are in, what sectors should be back to work who are not? It just seems like you're wiilling it to be back to normal without any clear logical rationale?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 23, 2020, 11:59:43 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 23, 2020, 11:19:17 PM
People already giving up. Roads busier. Saw lots of teenagers together. Older people out and about. The  game is up. This isn't a solution. Proper sensible measures, but let's get back to work.

"Lets get brexit done"

You'll have to do better than that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 24, 2020, 12:19:28 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 23, 2020, 11:31:22 PM
Facts.

There isn't enough tests correct

There won't be enough tests Why not? There is currently a lot of resource and money being pumped in to make this happen. Whether it is or will be enough is debatable or remains to be seen

The virus is everywhere without widespread testing its impossible to know that

We (or at least our Government) cannot come up with a sensible plan There is a plan, but unfortunately it has a massive economic impact and a massive societal one as well. No plan would have a much larger  economic, societal and healthcare impact. Seems that you think the cure is worse than the poison?

A vaccine is at best is 18months away I'd say thats accurate

We must learn to live with it Yes, thats correct, and involves long term social distancing measures until a vaccine is found, or the virus is brought under control, or we risk the collapse of the health service, large scale deaths and all the major societal and economic impacts that entails

In a different world we'd have a competent government with a competent CMO who knew what to do. But we don't. Sitting at home is not a long term solution. You might not want it to be the long term solution, but the social distancing measures is probably the only way of dealing with this until there is a vaccine or it is brought under control. 

Liberate the 6 counties!!! (Tongue in cheek)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 06:16:09 AM
Quite unbelievably a test study just out of China that 98% of the people that tested positive for Coronavirus detected it indoors.
This is the latest official results coming out of China
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on April 24, 2020, 07:33:14 AM
According to the government guidance Factories can return to work even where employees cannot maintain a 2 metre distance.  There should be mitigating factors such as the use of PPE or working back to back etc.
I think in couple of weeks most will be back to work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 24, 2020, 07:50:50 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 23, 2020, 11:19:17 PM
People already giving up. Roads busier. Saw lots of teenagers together. Older people out and about. The  game is up. This isn't a solution. Proper sensible measures, but let's get back to work.

May could get really messy with regards compliance of measures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 24, 2020, 08:42:07 AM
trailer for first minister.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 24, 2020, 09:19:45 AM
Jases ye're bad enough already!! :o ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 09:48:58 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 23, 2020, 11:21:49 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 23, 2020, 10:06:18 PM
What's your problem??

You've made a claim and I've asked you to back it up it's not that difficult!!

When this comes to pass, I'll count up the numbers and send them to you. Until then brush up on English tenses.

No... f**k off!

Peddling nonsense that more people will die of suicide and economic hardship than the virus is just not true so stop making shit up. If you want to back up assertions with evidence go ahead but talking nonsense doesn't cut it in a crisis like this.

https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/2738159646293164/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 09:58:39 AM
Screenexile what do you think should be the way forward here?
Now saying as we won't have a vaccine for at least 2 years. At least
Keep shops closed
Stay indoors
No sports
No schools
No mass
No work


1/3 of all deaths in the north happened in the confined spaces of carehomes even though they were closed 2 weeks before lockdown. Yes age is a factor

The curve has well and truly flattened to the extent that hospitals are quiet compared to what they normally are


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on April 24, 2020, 10:03:40 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 09:58:39 AM
Screenexile what do you think should be the way forward here?
Now saying as we won't have a vaccine for at least 2 years. At least
Keep shops closed
Stay indoors
No sports
No schools
No mass
No work


1/3 of all deaths in the north happened in the confined spaces of carehomes even though they were closed 2 weeks before lockdown. Yes age is a factor

The curve has well and truly flattened to the extent that hospitals are quiet compared to what they normally are

If this is what it takes, then keep the place in lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 24, 2020, 10:05:45 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 24, 2020, 12:19:28 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 23, 2020, 11:31:22 PM
Facts.

There isn't enough tests correct

There won't be enough tests Why not? There is currently a lot of resource and money being pumped in to make this happen. Whether it is or will be enough is debatable or remains to be seen

The virus is everywhere without widespread testing its impossible to know that

We (or at least our Government) cannot come up with a sensible plan There is a plan, but unfortunately it has a massive economic impact and a massive societal one as well. No plan would have a much larger  economic, societal and healthcare impact. Seems that you think the cure is worse than the poison?

A vaccine is at best is 18months away I'd say thats accurate

We must learn to live with it Yes, thats correct, and involves long term social distancing measures until a vaccine is found, or the virus is brought under control, or we risk the collapse of the health service, large scale deaths and all the major societal and economic impacts that entails

In a different world we'd have a competent government with a competent CMO who knew what to do. But we don't. Sitting at home is not a long term solution. You might not want it to be the long term solution, but the social distancing measures is probably the only way of dealing with this until there is a vaccine or it is brought under control. 

Liberate the 6 counties!!! (Tongue in cheek)

Try to answer this as best as possible.

There isn't the capacity to test everyone who wants or needs a test. Either Lab capacity or even the logistics of places and nurses to do it. That's why it's so selective at the minute.

The virus is everywhere. I've seen the Map of the North and there's been infections and deaths in every council area. Due to lack of testing we don't know exact infections levels. It's the same in the South.

There isn't a plan. It's all been made up on the fly. Herd immunity, contain, delay, mitigate. 5 pillars, 5 tests, 6 point battle plan, 40,000 tests, 100,000 tests, not counting deaths in care homes. The Tory government and the CMO have had more positions than a porn movie. If that's the plan, then we'd all be safer coming up with our own ideas.
Long term social distancing. That's a good sensible measure. I agree. But not this lockdown. No one agrees this is a long term solution

Some ideas on what should happen

Schools and Creches reopen. Even if it's 2 days a week initially
Manufacturing back to work. Split shifts, Team A Monday, Team B Tues etc sensible measures. Staggered breaks
All shops reopen, Clothing, hardware, garden centres, sports shops. Again sensible measures taken, limiting numbers etc.
All youth sports teams and games back.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 24, 2020, 10:09:46 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 09:48:58 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 23, 2020, 11:21:49 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 23, 2020, 10:06:18 PM
What's your problem??

You've made a claim and I've asked you to back it up it's not that difficult!!

When this comes to pass, I'll count up the numbers and send them to you. Until then brush up on English tenses.

No... f**k off!

Peddling nonsense that more people will die of suicide and economic hardship than the virus is just not true so stop making shit up. If you want to back up assertions with evidence go ahead but talking nonsense doesn't cut it in a crisis like this.

https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/2738159646293164/

DV is up. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/09/uk-domestic-abuse-helplines-report-surge-in-calls-during-lockdown (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/09/uk-domestic-abuse-helplines-report-surge-in-calls-during-lockdown)
Referrals to Social workers down. (Child welfasre) https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/08/fears-for-child-welfare-as-protection-referrals-plummet-in-england (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/08/fears-for-child-welfare-as-protection-referrals-plummet-in-england)

These are a few key indicators that everything is not rosey in the garden. The social impact of this lockdown will be evident for years to come should it not be lifted.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 24, 2020, 10:15:55 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 09:58:39 AM
Screenexile what do you think should be the way forward here?
Now saying as we won't have a vaccine for at least 2 years. At least
Keep shops closed
Stay indoors
No sports
No schools
No mass
No work


1/3 of all deaths in the north happened in the confined spaces of carehomes even though they were closed 2 weeks before lockdown. Yes age is a factor

The curve has well and truly flattened to the extent that hospitals are quiet compared to what they normally are

The reckoning is there are more deaths happening from other causes are people are too afraid to go to hospital. I would say it's the most likely place you'll get this at the minute. That is a good part of the reasons why hospitals are quieter. Less chemo is going on. Less scheduled operations.

Although I do think pubs being shut has reduced the number of people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 10:19:05 AM
Have to agree with Trailer
Out of the 276 deaths in the north 233 were over 75
Let's take steps to help the old and vulnerable
It's a national scandal that the care homes were not sorted first
They should have moved them into hotels when hotels closed
Straight away
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 10:57:45 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 09:58:39 AM
Screenexile what do you think should be the way forward here?
Now saying as we won't have a vaccine for at least 2 years. At least
Keep shops closed - No shops should be able to manage social distancing within guidelines
Stay indoors not necessarily but there should be some guidelines
No sports depends on the sport... team sports probably shouldn't happen/swimming
No schools I think schools need to be opened for next year but need guidance from doctors on the risks and how to mitigate
No mass no mass people are well able to pray at home and watch masses online if they have to
No work we need to get back to work but work conditions have to change


1/3 of all deaths in the north happened in the confined spaces of carehomes even though they were closed 2 weeks before lockdown. Yes age is a factor

The curve has well and truly flattened to the extent that hospitals are quiet compared to what they normally are

I'm not saying we need to lockdown indefinitely it's just not feasible but trailer making up shit isn't helping!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 24, 2020, 11:12:32 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 10:57:45 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 09:58:39 AM
Screenexile what do you think should be the way forward here?
Now saying as we won't have a vaccine for at least 2 years. At least
Keep shops closed - No shops should be able to manage social distancing within guidelines
Stay indoors not necessarily but there should be some guidelines
No sports depends on the sport... team sports probably shouldn't happen/swimming
No schools I think schools need to be opened for next year but need guidance from doctors on the risks and how to mitigate
No mass no mass people are well able to pray at home and watch masses online if they have to
No work we need to get back to work but work conditions have to change


1/3 of all deaths in the north happened in the confined spaces of carehomes even though they were closed 2 weeks before lockdown. Yes age is a factor

The curve has well and truly flattened to the extent that hospitals are quiet compared to what they normally are

I'm not saying we need to lockdown indefinitely it's just not feasible but trailer making up shit isn't helping!

Making what up? What you mean it isn't helping? Do you think the CMO is logging on to check out the views of the posters on this board?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 11:16:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 11:12:32 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 10:57:45 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 09:58:39 AM
Screenexile what do you think should be the way forward here?
Now saying as we won't have a vaccine for at least 2 years. At least
Keep shops closed - No shops should be able to manage social distancing within guidelines
Stay indoors not necessarily but there should be some guidelines
No sports depends on the sport... team sports probably shouldn't happen/swimming
No schools I think schools need to be opened for next year but need guidance from doctors on the risks and how to mitigate
No mass no mass people are well able to pray at home and watch masses online if they have to
No work we need to get back to work but work conditions have to change


1/3 of all deaths in the north happened in the confined spaces of carehomes even though they were closed 2 weeks before lockdown. Yes age is a factor

The curve has well and truly flattened to the extent that hospitals are quiet compared to what they normally are

I'm not saying we need to lockdown indefinitely it's just not feasible but trailer making up shit isn't helping!

Making what up? What you mean it isn't helping? Do you think the CMO is logging on to check out the views of the posters on this board?

Making up that more people will die from causes of lockdown than the actual Coronavirus. It's not true you made it up so admit you made it up.

It's nothing to do with CMO it's well known that lots of people think shit they read on the internet is true when it isn't. . .

By all means say you'd prefer the lockdown was lifted but don't magic up untruths to try and back up your point!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 24, 2020, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 11:16:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 11:12:32 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 10:57:45 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 09:58:39 AM
Screenexile what do you think should be the way forward here?
Now saying as we won't have a vaccine for at least 2 years. At least
Keep shops closed - No shops should be able to manage social distancing within guidelines
Stay indoors not necessarily but there should be some guidelines
No sports depends on the sport... team sports probably shouldn't happen/swimming
No schools I think schools need to be opened for next year but need guidance from doctors on the risks and how to mitigate
No mass no mass people are well able to pray at home and watch masses online if they have to
No work we need to get back to work but work conditions have to change


1/3 of all deaths in the north happened in the confined spaces of carehomes even though they were closed 2 weeks before lockdown. Yes age is a factor

The curve has well and truly flattened to the extent that hospitals are quiet compared to what they normally are

I'm not saying we need to lockdown indefinitely it's just not feasible but trailer making up shit isn't helping!

Making what up? What you mean it isn't helping? Do you think the CMO is logging on to check out the views of the posters on this board?

Making up that more people will die from causes of lockdown than the actual Coronavirus. It's not true you made it up so admit you made it up.

It's nothing to do with CMO it's well known that lots of people think shit they read on the internet is true when it isn't. . .

By all means say you'd prefer the lockdown was lifted but don't magic up untruths to try and back up your point!!

I didn't make it up. It's true. There's a direct correlation between unemployment and the death rate.
The effect on the populations mental health and well being will be felt for years to come.
Coronavirus is not going away. We must live with it. This lockdown is not a solution. These are the facts and to ignore them is foolish.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 24, 2020, 11:34:43 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 10:19:05 AM
Have to agree with Trailer
Out of the 276 deaths in the north 233 were over 75
Let's take steps to help the old and vulnerable
It's a national scandal that the care homes were not sorted first
They should have moved them into hotels when hotels closed
Straight away

Did you suggest that at the time...or is hindsight a wonderful thing?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on April 24, 2020, 11:46:48 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 11:16:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 11:12:32 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 10:57:45 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 09:58:39 AM
Screenexile what do you think should be the way forward here?
Now saying as we won't have a vaccine for at least 2 years. At least
Keep shops closed - No shops should be able to manage social distancing within guidelines
Stay indoors not necessarily but there should be some guidelines
No sports depends on the sport... team sports probably shouldn't happen/swimming
No schools I think schools need to be opened for next year but need guidance from doctors on the risks and how to mitigate
No mass no mass people are well able to pray at home and watch masses online if they have to
No work we need to get back to work but work conditions have to change


1/3 of all deaths in the north happened in the confined spaces of carehomes even though they were closed 2 weeks before lockdown. Yes age is a factor

The curve has well and truly flattened to the extent that hospitals are quiet compared to what they normally are

I'm not saying we need to lockdown indefinitely it's just not feasible but trailer making up shit isn't helping!

Making what up? What you mean it isn't helping? Do you think the CMO is logging on to check out the views of the posters on this board?

Making up that more people will die from causes of lockdown than the actual Coronavirus. It's not true you made it up so admit you made it up.

It's nothing to do with CMO it's well known that lots of people think shit they read on the internet is true when it isn't. . .

By all means say you'd prefer the lockdown was lifted but don't magic up untruths to try and back up your point!!

I didn't make it up. It's true. There's a direct correlation between unemployment and the death rate.
The effect on the populations mental health and well being will be felt for years to come.
Coronavirus is not going away. We must live with it. This lockdown is not a solution. These are the facts and to ignore them is foolish.

I'm very much in agreement with screenexile, Trailer is full of shit and scaremongering.  Posting opinions as facts.

I'd be more worried about the direct correlation between COVID-19 and death rate for now. The lockdown is giving time to come up with solutions to be able to manage the spread, and also to plan how to start to lessen the lockdown so that we aren't caught up in another surge over time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 24, 2020, 11:51:23 AM
Anyone hear that both Edwin Poots and Jeffrey Donaldson have lost their respective fathers due to Corona Virus?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 11:52:41 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 11:16:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 11:12:32 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 10:57:45 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 09:58:39 AM
Screenexile what do you think should be the way forward here?
Now saying as we won't have a vaccine for at least 2 years. At least
Keep shops closed - No shops should be able to manage social distancing within guidelines
Stay indoors not necessarily but there should be some guidelines
No sports depends on the sport... team sports probably shouldn't happen/swimming
No schools I think schools need to be opened for next year but need guidance from doctors on the risks and how to mitigate
No mass no mass people are well able to pray at home and watch masses online if they have to
No work we need to get back to work but work conditions have to change


1/3 of all deaths in the north happened in the confined spaces of carehomes even though they were closed 2 weeks before lockdown. Yes age is a factor

The curve has well and truly flattened to the extent that hospitals are quiet compared to what they normally are

I'm not saying we need to lockdown indefinitely it's just not feasible but trailer making up shit isn't helping!

Making what up? What you mean it isn't helping? Do you think the CMO is logging on to check out the views of the posters on this board?

Making up that more people will die from causes of lockdown than the actual Coronavirus. It's not true you made it up so admit you made it up.

It's nothing to do with CMO it's well known that lots of people think shit they read on the internet is true when it isn't. . .

By all means say you'd prefer the lockdown was lifted but don't magic up untruths to try and back up your point!!

I didn't make it up. It's true. There's a direct correlation between unemployment and the death rate.
The effect on the populations mental health and well being will be felt for years to come.
Coronavirus is not going away. We must live with it. This lockdown is not a solution. These are the facts and to ignore them is foolish.

Of course there is but you said it would kill more people than the virus. . . you made that up!!

I'm fairly sure that with the best medical and scientific minds across the world calling for a lockdown they would have these figures to hand and calculated that a lockdown would result in less deaths overall from COVID/Unemployment etc. than continuing things as normal!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 11:57:54 AM
Some great replies screen
And yes I agree with all
It didn't take a genius to realise who where the most vulnerable people. It was all over the news so yes I did say nursing homes would be hit badly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 24, 2020, 12:00:42 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 24, 2020, 11:51:23 AM
Anyone hear that both Edwin Poots and Jeffrey Donaldson have lost their respective fathers due to Corona Virus?

If it was Coronavirus they didn't mention that - it was stated he died of a long illness a few days ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 24, 2020, 12:04:08 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 10:19:05 AM
They should have moved them into hotels when hotels closed
Straight away

They should have moved who into hotels?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 12:14:02 PM
The elderly in nursing homes
As soon as hotels closed straight in
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 24, 2020, 12:15:04 PM
Is that not just moving the problem from a nursing home to a hotel?? What would that achieve?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 24, 2020, 12:20:53 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 11:52:41 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 11:16:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 11:12:32 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 10:57:45 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 09:58:39 AM
Screenexile what do you think should be the way forward here?
Now saying as we won't have a vaccine for at least 2 years. At least
Keep shops closed - No shops should be able to manage social distancing within guidelines
Stay indoors not necessarily but there should be some guidelines
No sports depends on the sport... team sports probably shouldn't happen/swimming
No schools I think schools need to be opened for next year but need guidance from doctors on the risks and how to mitigate
No mass no mass people are well able to pray at home and watch masses online if they have to
No work we need to get back to work but work conditions have to change


1/3 of all deaths in the north happened in the confined spaces of carehomes even though they were closed 2 weeks before lockdown. Yes age is a factor

The curve has well and truly flattened to the extent that hospitals are quiet compared to what they normally are

I'm not saying we need to lockdown indefinitely it's just not feasible but trailer making up shit isn't helping!

Making what up? What you mean it isn't helping? Do you think the CMO is logging on to check out the views of the posters on this board?

Making up that more people will die from causes of lockdown than the actual Coronavirus. It's not true you made it up so admit you made it up.

It's nothing to do with CMO it's well known that lots of people think shit they read on the internet is true when it isn't. . .

By all means say you'd prefer the lockdown was lifted but don't magic up untruths to try and back up your point!!

I didn't make it up. It's true. There's a direct correlation between unemployment and the death rate.
The effect on the populations mental health and well being will be felt for years to come.
Coronavirus is not going away. We must live with it. This lockdown is not a solution. These are the facts and to ignore them is foolish.

Of course there is but you said it would kill more people than the virus. . . you made that up!!

I'm fairly sure that with the best medical and scientific minds across the world calling for a lockdown they would have these figures to hand and calculated that a lockdown would result in less deaths overall from COVID/Unemployment etc. than continuing things as normal!!

OK. Lets look at what the best medical and scientific minds across the world have said...

WHO - No human to human transmission, travel bans don't work. The WHO actually praised China for its transparency. They got the initial response wrong.
UK - CMO advised Herd immunity. Initially advised because they used a Flu infection model and not a Covid-19 which is much higher. This is like the time someone forgot to switch hawkeye from football to hurling mode. Clowns. Amateur hour. And it wasn't ministers doing this, it was the so called best medical and scientific minds.
The UK haven't been testing suspected cases. They've no idea of the picture. How can we know death or infection rates if we're not testing? No one can explain this. No matter how the death rate is worked out it cannot be accurate.
It's known this effects elderly more than the young, yet as someone pointed out the virus is running rife in our care homes. They knew this and couldn't put measures in place to stop it.
Not enough tests. Not enough PPE. Unprepared yet we should've know from Feb. Days lost. It wasn't Matt Hancock or Robin Swann taking the steps. Remember guided by the science. Wankers couldn't run a bath never-mind a response to a pandemic that they were supposed to be prepared for.
Worldwide - countries can't even agree on how to count the cases or deaths.

So excuse me if I take with a pinch of salt what the best medical and scientific minds across the world are saying. The game is up. People see this bullshit for what it is. Lives ruined. Careers ruined. Untold damage to the economy and mental health.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 12:21:34 PM
More room. You would have them spread out over the hotel. Lives are being lost with the close proximity of rooms in nursing homes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 12:26:53 PM
And trailer has hit the nail on the head
People are starting to see through this bullshit scientists advise
They made a balls up and are trying to cover themselves
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 24, 2020, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 12:21:34 PM
More room. You would have them spread out over the hotel. Lives are being lost with the close proximity of rooms in nursing homes

What difference would close proximity of rooms make if they were isolating and staying in the rooms? Any nursing home I've ever been to it hasn't been like the old people are going mad visiting each others rooms. They sit in communal areas and then they go to their rooms.

Then how would they get up the stairs lol. Everyone takes the lift separately. Then what if people have touched the lift buttons etc etc.

Has it been said that the close proximity of rooms in nursing homes is causing the issue here or is that your take on it?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 24, 2020, 12:35:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 24, 2020, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 12:21:34 PM
More room. You would have them spread out over the hotel. Lives are being lost with the close proximity of rooms in nursing homes

What difference would close proximity of rooms make if they were isolating and staying in the rooms? Any nursing home I've ever been to it hasn't been like the old people are going mad visiting each others rooms. They sit in communal areas and then they go to their rooms.

Then how would they get up the stairs lol. Everyone takes the lift separately. Then what if people have touched the lift buttons etc etc.

Has it been said that the close proximity of rooms in nursing homes is causing the issue here or is that your take on it?

I think the idea is to divide the population of the care home up. Not move it in it's entirety to one hotel, but divide it in 4 say and move to 3 hotels.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 24, 2020, 12:39:23 PM
I'd say opposition parties will, when things settle down, be putting some effort into getting enquries set up to establish all that happened.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 24, 2020, 12:41:15 PM
There isn't and won't be enough tests.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52405852 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52405852)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 24, 2020, 12:47:23 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 12:35:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 24, 2020, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 12:21:34 PM
More room. You would have them spread out over the hotel. Lives are being lost with the close proximity of rooms in nursing homes

What difference would close proximity of rooms make if they were isolating and staying in the rooms? Any nursing home I've ever been to it hasn't been like the old people are going mad visiting each others rooms. They sit in communal areas and then they go to their rooms.

Then how would they get up the stairs lol. Everyone takes the lift separately. Then what if people have touched the lift buttons etc etc.

Has it been said that the close proximity of rooms in nursing homes is causing the issue here or is that your take on it?

I think the idea is to divide the population of the care home up. Not move it in it's entirety to one hotel, but divide it in 4 say and move to 3 hotels.

I still think staff are a good part of the reason for this problem (through no fault of their own). Between asyptomatic nature and lack of PPE.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 24, 2020, 12:48:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 24, 2020, 12:47:23 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 12:35:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 24, 2020, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 12:21:34 PM
More room. You would have them spread out over the hotel. Lives are being lost with the close proximity of rooms in nursing homes

What difference would close proximity of rooms make if they were isolating and staying in the rooms? Any nursing home I've ever been to it hasn't been like the old people are going mad visiting each others rooms. They sit in communal areas and then they go to their rooms.

Then how would they get up the stairs lol. Everyone takes the lift separately. Then what if people have touched the lift buttons etc etc.

Has it been said that the close proximity of rooms in nursing homes is causing the issue here or is that your take on it?

I think the idea is to divide the population of the care home up. Not move it in it's entirety to one hotel, but divide it in 4 say and move to 3 hotels.

I still think staff are a good part of the reason for this problem (through no fault of their own). Between asyptomatic nature and lack of PPE.

Yeah I'd agree. And the solution is testing and contact tracing. Guess what? It's not happening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 24, 2020, 12:50:41 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on April 24, 2020, 11:46:48 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 11:16:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 11:12:32 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 10:57:45 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 09:58:39 AM
Screenexile what do you think should be the way forward here?
Now saying as we won't have a vaccine for at least 2 years. At least
Keep shops closed - No shops should be able to manage social distancing within guidelines
Stay indoors not necessarily but there should be some guidelines
No sports depends on the sport... team sports probably shouldn't happen/swimming
No schools I think schools need to be opened for next year but need guidance from doctors on the risks and how to mitigate
No mass no mass people are well able to pray at home and watch masses online if they have to
No work we need to get back to work but work conditions have to change


1/3 of all deaths in the north happened in the confined spaces of carehomes even though they were closed 2 weeks before lockdown. Yes age is a factor

The curve has well and truly flattened to the extent that hospitals are quiet compared to what they normally are

I'm not saying we need to lockdown indefinitely it's just not feasible but trailer making up shit isn't helping!

Making what up? What you mean it isn't helping? Do you think the CMO is logging on to check out the views of the posters on this board?

Making up that more people will die from causes of lockdown than the actual Coronavirus. It's not true you made it up so admit you made it up.

It's nothing to do with CMO it's well known that lots of people think shit they read on the internet is true when it isn't. . .

By all means say you'd prefer the lockdown was lifted but don't magic up untruths to try and back up your point!!

I didn't make it up. It's true. There's a direct correlation between unemployment and the death rate.
The effect on the populations mental health and well being will be felt for years to come.
Coronavirus is not going away. We must live with it. This lockdown is not a solution. These are the facts and to ignore them is foolish.

I'm very much in agreement with screenexile, Trailer is full of shit and scaremongering.  Posting opinions as facts.

I'd be more worried about the direct correlation between COVID-19 and death rate for now. The lockdown is giving time to come up with solutions to be able to manage the spread, and also to plan how to start to lessen the lockdown so that we aren't caught up in another surge over time.
Its amazing that this has to be spelt out to seemingly intelligent people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 24, 2020, 12:51:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 12:20:53 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 11:52:41 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 11:16:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 11:12:32 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 10:57:45 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 09:58:39 AM
Screenexile what do you think should be the way forward here?
Now saying as we won't have a vaccine for at least 2 years. At least
Keep shops closed - No shops should be able to manage social distancing within guidelines
Stay indoors not necessarily but there should be some guidelines
No sports depends on the sport... team sports probably shouldn't happen/swimming
No schools I think schools need to be opened for next year but need guidance from doctors on the risks and how to mitigate
No mass no mass people are well able to pray at home and watch masses online if they have to
No work we need to get back to work but work conditions have to change


1/3 of all deaths in the north happened in the confined spaces of carehomes even though they were closed 2 weeks before lockdown. Yes age is a factor

The curve has well and truly flattened to the extent that hospitals are quiet compared to what they normally are

I'm not saying we need to lockdown indefinitely it's just not feasible but trailer making up shit isn't helping!

Making what up? What you mean it isn't helping? Do you think the CMO is logging on to check out the views of the posters on this board?

Making up that more people will die from causes of lockdown than the actual Coronavirus. It's not true you made it up so admit you made it up.

It's nothing to do with CMO it's well known that lots of people think shit they read on the internet is true when it isn't. . .

By all means say you'd prefer the lockdown was lifted but don't magic up untruths to try and back up your point!!

I didn't make it up. It's true. There's a direct correlation between unemployment and the death rate.
The effect on the populations mental health and well being will be felt for years to come.
Coronavirus is not going away. We must live with it. This lockdown is not a solution. These are the facts and to ignore them is foolish.

Of course there is but you said it would kill more people than the virus. . . you made that up!!

I'm fairly sure that with the best medical and scientific minds across the world calling for a lockdown they would have these figures to hand and calculated that a lockdown would result in less deaths overall from COVID/Unemployment etc. than continuing things as normal!!

OK. Lets look at what the best medical and scientific minds across the world have said...

WHO - No human to human transmission, travel bans don't work. The WHO actually praised China for its transparency. They got the initial response wrong.
UK - CMO advised Herd immunity. Initially advised because they used a Flu infection model and not a Covid-19 which is much higher. This is like the time someone forgot to switch hawkeye from football to hurling mode. Clowns. Amateur hour. And it wasn't ministers doing this, it was the so called best medical and scientific minds.
The UK haven't been testing suspected cases. They've no idea of the picture. How can we know death or infection rates if we're not testing? No one can explain this. No matter how the death rate is worked out it cannot be accurate.
It's known this effects elderly more than the young, yet as someone pointed out the virus is running rife in our care homes. They knew this and couldn't put measures in place to stop it.
Not enough tests. Not enough PPE. Unprepared yet we should've know from Feb. Days lost. It wasn't Matt Hancock or Robin Swann taking the steps. Remember guided by the science. Wankers couldn't run a bath never-mind a response to a pandemic that they were supposed to be prepared for.
Worldwide - countries can't even agree on how to count the cases or deaths.

So excuse me if I take with a pinch of salt what the best medical and scientific minds across the world are saying. The game is up. People see this bullshit for what it is. Lives ruined. Careers ruined. Untold damage to the economy and mental health.

And I forgot to point out that Randox in NI, a UK company, actually make the test yet none were ordered. But we've the best people working on it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on April 24, 2020, 12:54:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 12:41:15 PM
There isn't and won't be enough tests.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52405852 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52405852)

Trailer's solution: OPEN THE GATES, SET US FREE

::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on April 24, 2020, 12:57:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 12:51:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 12:20:53 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 11:52:41 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 11:16:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 11:12:32 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 10:57:45 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 09:58:39 AM
Screenexile what do you think should be the way forward here?
Now saying as we won't have a vaccine for at least 2 years. At least
Keep shops closed - No shops should be able to manage social distancing within guidelines
Stay indoors not necessarily but there should be some guidelines
No sports depends on the sport... team sports probably shouldn't happen/swimming
No schools I think schools need to be opened for next year but need guidance from doctors on the risks and how to mitigate
No mass no mass people are well able to pray at home and watch masses online if they have to
No work we need to get back to work but work conditions have to change


1/3 of all deaths in the north happened in the confined spaces of carehomes even though they were closed 2 weeks before lockdown. Yes age is a factor

The curve has well and truly flattened to the extent that hospitals are quiet compared to what they normally are

I'm not saying we need to lockdown indefinitely it's just not feasible but trailer making up shit isn't helping!

Making what up? What you mean it isn't helping? Do you think the CMO is logging on to check out the views of the posters on this board?

Making up that more people will die from causes of lockdown than the actual Coronavirus. It's not true you made it up so admit you made it up.

It's nothing to do with CMO it's well known that lots of people think shit they read on the internet is true when it isn't. . .

By all means say you'd prefer the lockdown was lifted but don't magic up untruths to try and back up your point!!

I didn't make it up. It's true. There's a direct correlation between unemployment and the death rate.
The effect on the populations mental health and well being will be felt for years to come.
Coronavirus is not going away. We must live with it. This lockdown is not a solution. These are the facts and to ignore them is foolish.

Of course there is but you said it would kill more people than the virus. . . you made that up!!

I'm fairly sure that with the best medical and scientific minds across the world calling for a lockdown they would have these figures to hand and calculated that a lockdown would result in less deaths overall from COVID/Unemployment etc. than continuing things as normal!!

OK. Lets look at what the best medical and scientific minds across the world have said...

WHO - No human to human transmission, travel bans don't work. The WHO actually praised China for its transparency. They got the initial response wrong.
UK - CMO advised Herd immunity. Initially advised because they used a Flu infection model and not a Covid-19 which is much higher. This is like the time someone forgot to switch hawkeye from football to hurling mode. Clowns. Amateur hour. And it wasn't ministers doing this, it was the so called best medical and scientific minds.
The UK haven't been testing suspected cases. They've no idea of the picture. How can we know death or infection rates if we're not testing? No one can explain this. No matter how the death rate is worked out it cannot be accurate.
It's known this effects elderly more than the young, yet as someone pointed out the virus is running rife in our care homes. They knew this and couldn't put measures in place to stop it.
Not enough tests. Not enough PPE. Unprepared yet we should've know from Feb. Days lost. It wasn't Matt Hancock or Robin Swann taking the steps. Remember guided by the science. Wankers couldn't run a bath never-mind a response to a pandemic that they were supposed to be prepared for.
Worldwide - countries can't even agree on how to count the cases or deaths.

So excuse me if I take with a pinch of salt what the best medical and scientific minds across the world are saying. The game is up. People see this bullshit for what it is. Lives ruined. Careers ruined. Untold damage to the economy and mental health.

And I forgot to point out that Randox in NI, a UK company, actually make the test yet none were ordered. But we've the best people working on it.

Just to correct you, on January 14 WHO said in a press conference that there was human to human transmission. They also issued instructions for countries as to how best to deal with this. Countries like the uk and USA ignored this advice until well into March.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 24, 2020, 01:02:04 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on April 24, 2020, 12:54:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 12:41:15 PM
There isn't and won't be enough tests.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52405852 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52405852)

Trailer's solution: OPEN THE GATES, SET US FREE

::)

Liberate the 6  :D :D

I've outlined the sensible measures that should be taken. But following the CMOs blindly is very dangerous. Remember the Scottish CMO's advice was to stay at home... but not for her as she fucked off to her 2nd home. But yeah lets follow these medical and scientific advisers.
Our own CMO in NI couldn't advise to close schools in NI even though they were closing them in the ROI ... ON THE SAME f**king ISLAND!!!

Again sensible measures yes, but restrictions need to be relaxed.

Feel free to jump in if I am wrong...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 24, 2020, 01:02:46 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 12:26:53 PM
And trailer has hit the nail on the head
People are starting to see through this bullshit scientists advise
They made a balls up and are trying to cover themselves

No comment necessary ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 24, 2020, 01:04:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 12:41:15 PM
There isn't and won't be enough tests.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52405852 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52405852)
Do you know that there is a factory currently being built in Antrim, to house 100s of machines, with each having the capability of doing 1000s of tests every few hours? This is state of the art technology. This has been purpose built because of covid-19. So again, you haven't a clue that there won't be enough tests. You are right that there currently isn't enough, and you may end up being right that there will never be enough, but you don't know that as fact, and Ive seen enough evidence to have hope that that won't be the case.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 24, 2020, 01:05:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 12:20:53 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 11:52:41 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 11:16:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 11:12:32 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 10:57:45 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 09:58:39 AM
Screenexile what do you think should be the way forward here?
Now saying as we won't have a vaccine for at least 2 years. At least
Keep shops closed - No shops should be able to manage social distancing within guidelines
Stay indoors not necessarily but there should be some guidelines
No sports depends on the sport... team sports probably shouldn't happen/swimming
No schools I think schools need to be opened for next year but need guidance from doctors on the risks and how to mitigate
No mass no mass people are well able to pray at home and watch masses online if they have to
No work we need to get back to work but work conditions have to change


1/3 of all deaths in the north happened in the confined spaces of carehomes even though they were closed 2 weeks before lockdown. Yes age is a factor

The curve has well and truly flattened to the extent that hospitals are quiet compared to what they normally are

I'm not saying we need to lockdown indefinitely it's just not feasible but trailer making up shit isn't helping!

Making what up? What you mean it isn't helping? Do you think the CMO is logging on to check out the views of the posters on this board?

Making up that more people will die from causes of lockdown than the actual Coronavirus. It's not true you made it up so admit you made it up.

It's nothing to do with CMO it's well known that lots of people think shit they read on the internet is true when it isn't. . .

By all means say you'd prefer the lockdown was lifted but don't magic up untruths to try and back up your point!!

I didn't make it up. It's true. There's a direct correlation between unemployment and the death rate.
The effect on the populations mental health and well being will be felt for years to come.
Coronavirus is not going away. We must live with it. This lockdown is not a solution. These are the facts and to ignore them is foolish.

Of course there is but you said it would kill more people than the virus. . . you made that up!!

I'm fairly sure that with the best medical and scientific minds across the world calling for a lockdown they would have these figures to hand and calculated that a lockdown would result in less deaths overall from COVID/Unemployment etc. than continuing things as normal!!

OK. Lets look at what the best medical and scientific minds across the world have said...

WHO - No human to human transmission, travel bans don't work. The WHO actually praised China for its transparency. They got the initial response wrong.
UK - CMO advised Herd immunity. Initially advised because they used a Flu infection model and not a Covid-19 which is much higher. This is like the time someone forgot to switch hawkeye from football to hurling mode. Clowns. Amateur hour. And it wasn't ministers doing this, it was the so called best medical and scientific minds.
The UK haven't been testing suspected cases. They've no idea of the picture. How can we know death or infection rates if we're not testing? No one can explain this. No matter how the death rate is worked out it cannot be accurate.
It's known this effects elderly more than the young, yet as someone pointed out the virus is running rife in our care homes. They knew this and couldn't put measures in place to stop it.
Not enough tests. Not enough PPE. Unprepared yet we should've know from Feb. Days lost. It wasn't Matt Hancock or Robin Swann taking the steps. Remember guided by the science. Wankers couldn't run a bath never-mind a response to a pandemic that they were supposed to be prepared for.
Worldwide - countries can't even agree on how to count the cases or deaths.

So excuse me if I take with a pinch of salt what the best medical and scientific minds across the world are saying. The game is up. People see this bullshit for what it is. Lives ruined. Careers ruined. Untold damage to the economy and mental health.

Its the fault of scientists and medical experts that countries were unprepared for the current novel viral pandemic.

NOT the politicians and various levels of governments? Not the healthboards? Not the hospital and nursing home administrations?

The scientists were supposed to be stockpiling the PPE and ventilators and putting the contingency plans in place?

I'll grant you that the herd immunity idea in the UK was dumb, but that was hardly the typical response across the globe, now was it?

The experts can only work with the knowledge they accumulate as they go when it comes to a new virus. Its always going to be found wanting in retrospect as decisions have to made in the short term based on incomplete information.

That doesn't mean Joe Bloggs sitting at the bar is equally qualified to make the decisions about how to proceed.

And the fact is that we do now know a hell of a lot more than we did three months ago. You can take the advice from the experts with a pinch of salt if you wish, but I'm not sure where that leaves you. Unless you're the governor of Georgia, in which case you may be bringing big problems onto your state.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 24, 2020, 01:06:33 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 24, 2020, 12:57:34 PM
Just to correct you, on January 14 WHO said in a press conference that there was human to human transmission. They also issued instructions for countries as to how best to deal with this. Countries like the uk and USA ignored this advice until well into March.

Source? Note that on the same day, they tweeted the precise opposite.

QuoteWorld Health Organization (WHO) @WHO
Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #ChinaFlag of China.

https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 24, 2020, 01:08:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 01:02:04 PM
I've outlined the sensible measures that should be taken. But following the CMOs blindly is very dangerous. Remember the Scottish CMO's advice was to stay at home... but not for her as she fucked off to her 2nd home. But yeah lets follow these medical and scientific advisers.
Our own CMO in NI couldn't advise to close schools in NI even though they were closing them in the ROI ... ON THE SAME f**king ISLAND!!!

Again sensible measures yes, but restrictions need to be relaxed.

Feel free to jump in if I am wrong...

You're not wrong.

The Irish CMO was up to his balls in the cervical cancer screening debacle too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 24, 2020, 01:10:54 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 24, 2020, 12:57:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 12:51:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 12:20:53 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 11:52:41 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 11:16:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 11:12:32 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 24, 2020, 10:57:45 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 09:58:39 AM
Screenexile what do you think should be the way forward here?
Now saying as we won't have a vaccine for at least 2 years. At least
Keep shops closed - No shops should be able to manage social distancing within guidelines
Stay indoors not necessarily but there should be some guidelines
No sports depends on the sport... team sports probably shouldn't happen/swimming
No schools I think schools need to be opened for next year but need guidance from doctors on the risks and how to mitigate
No mass no mass people are well able to pray at home and watch masses online if they have to
No work we need to get back to work but work conditions have to change


1/3 of all deaths in the north happened in the confined spaces of carehomes even though they were closed 2 weeks before lockdown. Yes age is a factor

The curve has well and truly flattened to the extent that hospitals are quiet compared to what they normally are

I'm not saying we need to lockdown indefinitely it's just not feasible but trailer making up shit isn't helping!

Making what up? What you mean it isn't helping? Do you think the CMO is logging on to check out the views of the posters on this board?

Making up that more people will die from causes of lockdown than the actual Coronavirus. It's not true you made it up so admit you made it up.

It's nothing to do with CMO it's well known that lots of people think shit they read on the internet is true when it isn't. . .

By all means say you'd prefer the lockdown was lifted but don't magic up untruths to try and back up your point!!

I didn't make it up. It's true. There's a direct correlation between unemployment and the death rate.
The effect on the populations mental health and well being will be felt for years to come.
Coronavirus is not going away. We must live with it. This lockdown is not a solution. These are the facts and to ignore them is foolish.

Of course there is but you said it would kill more people than the virus. . . you made that up!!

I'm fairly sure that with the best medical and scientific minds across the world calling for a lockdown they would have these figures to hand and calculated that a lockdown would result in less deaths overall from COVID/Unemployment etc. than continuing things as normal!!

OK. Lets look at what the best medical and scientific minds across the world have said...

WHO - No human to human transmission, travel bans don't work. The WHO actually praised China for its transparency. They got the initial response wrong.
UK - CMO advised Herd immunity. Initially advised because they used a Flu infection model and not a Covid-19 which is much higher. This is like the time someone forgot to switch hawkeye from football to hurling mode. Clowns. Amateur hour. And it wasn't ministers doing this, it was the so called best medical and scientific minds.
The UK haven't been testing suspected cases. They've no idea of the picture. How can we know death or infection rates if we're not testing? No one can explain this. No matter how the death rate is worked out it cannot be accurate.
It's known this effects elderly more than the young, yet as someone pointed out the virus is running rife in our care homes. They knew this and couldn't put measures in place to stop it.
Not enough tests. Not enough PPE. Unprepared yet we should've know from Feb. Days lost. It wasn't Matt Hancock or Robin Swann taking the steps. Remember guided by the science. Wankers couldn't run a bath never-mind a response to a pandemic that they were supposed to be prepared for.
Worldwide - countries can't even agree on how to count the cases or deaths.

So excuse me if I take with a pinch of salt what the best medical and scientific minds across the world are saying. The game is up. People see this bullshit for what it is. Lives ruined. Careers ruined. Untold damage to the economy and mental health.

And I forgot to point out that Randox in NI, a UK company, actually make the test yet none were ordered. But we've the best people working on it.

Just to correct you, on January 14 WHO said in a press conference that there was human to human transmission. They also issued instructions for countries as to how best to deal with this. Countries like the uk and USA ignored this advice until well into March.

They said that there might be limited human to human transmission after taking China's word that there wasn't. They then criticised travel bans. It has been a wake up call.

On another note the US and the UK as well as a host of other countries are bound to have know the extent in Dec 19 or it begs the question what were their intelligence services doing?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 24, 2020, 01:13:56 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 24, 2020, 12:47:23 PM
I still think staff are a good part of the reason for this problem (through no fault of their own). Between asyptomatic nature and lack of PPE.

Prof. Philip Nolan had a very informative chart on yesterday'sCovid briefing. This showed the growth in the community and the growth in homes lagging that by a week or 10 days, so people carried it into the homes after the initial measures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 24, 2020, 01:16:41 PM
Whats was Jonnycools word of the day again? Ultracrepidarian :D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 01:21:27 PM
Professor Isaac Benn has indicated that the Coronavirus dies out after 70 days regardless of lockdowns. Everyone's lockdown is different but all results are the same in terms of what is happening.
Interesting read
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 24, 2020, 01:22:07 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 24, 2020, 01:04:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 12:41:15 PM
There isn't and won't be enough tests.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52405852 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52405852)
Do you know that there is a factory currently being built in Antrim, to house 100s of machines, with each having the capability of doing 1000s of tests every few hours? This is state of the art technology. This has been purpose built because of covid-19. So again, you haven't a clue that there won't be enough tests. You are right that there currently isn't enough, and you may end up being right that there will never be enough, but you don't know that as fact, and Ive seen enough evidence to have hope that that won't be the case.

I didn't know that and I welcome it. Testing is part of the solution coupled with contact tracing and then isolation. But due to huge incompetence in government and at a scientific and medical level we're way way behind. An effective antibody test is also crucial.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 24, 2020, 02:11:34 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 01:21:27 PM
Professor Isaac Benn has indicated that the Coronavirus dies out after 70 days regardless of lockdowns. Everyone's lockdown is different but all results are the same in terms of what is happening.
Interesting read
The first line of the article
Isaac Ben-Israel, who is not a medical expert, says......

You are pacing faith in a former IDF General who is now head of the Security Studies program in Tel Aviv University. Asked to explain the phenomenon, Ben-Israel, who also heads Israel's Space Agency, later said: "I have no explanation. There are all kinds of speculations. Maybe it's related to climate, or the virus has a life-span of its own
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 24, 2020, 02:53:44 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 24, 2020, 02:11:34 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 01:21:27 PM
Professor Isaac Benn has indicated that the Coronavirus dies out after 70 days regardless of lockdowns. Everyone's lockdown is different but all results are the same in terms of what is happening.
Interesting read
The first line of the article
Isaac Ben-Israel, who is not a medical expert, says......

You are pacing faith in a former IDF General who is now head of the Security Studies program in Tel Aviv University. Asked to explain the phenomenon, Ben-Israel, who also heads Israel's Space Agency, later said: "I have no explanation. There are all kinds of speculations. Maybe it's related to climate, or the virus has a life-span of its own

It would be great if the cycle were over in 70 days.

The obvious problem is how many people get sick and how many die during that cycle.

And then, given that this is not medieval Europe (where even then a rat flea-borne pandemic spread across the continent killing more than half the population in a year or so), how do you stop new outbreaks when someone flies in and infects someone who missed it first time around?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dec on April 24, 2020, 03:08:05 PM
https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217095682470948864

@WHO Replying to @M_FerreiraDVM

"@M_FerreiraDVM Hi Matt, there has been no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV).
However, such transmission is always a concern when patients have respiratory symptoms - this requires further investigation.
9:46 AM · Jan 14, 2020"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tintin25 on April 24, 2020, 03:23:24 PM
Loads about Lisburn today, majority of shops obviously closed but you'd think it was just a normal Friday

Some rare looking characters queuing outside the off licence lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 24, 2020, 03:40:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 12:41:15 PM
There isn't and won't be enough tests.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52405852 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52405852)

This 100,000 a day isnt looking good
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 24, 2020, 03:46:02 PM
Quote from: five points on April 24, 2020, 01:06:33 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 24, 2020, 12:57:34 PM
Just to correct you, on January 14 WHO said in a press conference that there was human to human transmission. They also issued instructions for countries as to how best to deal with this. Countries like the uk and USA ignored this advice until well into March.

Source? Note that on the same day, they tweeted the precise opposite.

QuoteWorld Health Organization (WHO) @WHO
Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #ChinaFlag of China.

https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152

20th of Jan looks like the time the Chinese reported human to human transmission to everyone including the WHO.

https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1656260737518836127&wfr=spider&for=pc (https://baijiahao.baidu.com/s?id=1656260737518836127&wfr=spider&for=pc)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 24, 2020, 03:50:35 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 24, 2020, 03:40:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 24, 2020, 12:41:15 PM
There isn't and won't be enough tests.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52405852 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52405852)

This 100,000 a day isnt looking good

Plucked out of thin air by a lying bollox to buy him some time when the UK "Science" wasn't the least bit interested in testing.

It's only now they're looking at it in a meaningful way to ease the lockdown.

The Norn Iron CMO is slower still. Total Muppet.

Keir Starmer was bang on the money the other day at PMQ's.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 24, 2020, 05:38:52 PM
Covid is a wild motherfucker of a virus

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30937-5/fulltext

"Cardiovascular complications are rapidly emerging as a key threat in coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) in addition to respiratory disease. The mechanisms underlying the disproportionate effect of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection on patients with cardiovascular comorbidities, however, remain incompletely understood.1,  2
SARS-CoV-2 infects the host using the angiotensin converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor, which is expressed in several organs, including the lung, heart, kidney, and intestine.
......

...vulnerable patients with pre-existing endothelial dysfunction, which is associated with males, smoking, hypertension, diabetes, obesity, and established cardiovascular disease, all of which are associated with adverse outcomes in COVID-19."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 24, 2020, 05:53:18 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 01:21:27 PM
Professor Isaac Benn has indicated that the Coronavirus dies out after 70 days regardless of lockdowns. Everyone's lockdown is different but all results are the same in terms of what is happening.
Interesting read

There is more manure  in this thread than the gardening one.

Let's take the example of Singapore, first cases in January. That is 90 days ago, so they should be smiling at this stage, yet oddly they are finding almost 1000 cases a day!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 24, 2020, 05:58:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 24, 2020, 05:53:18 PM
There is more manure  in this thread than the gardening one.

Let's take the example of Singapore, first cases in January. That is 90 days ago, so they should be smiling at this stage, yet oddly they are finding almost 1000 cases a day!!!

Something to do with pockets of migrant workers hidden from sight I understand.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 24, 2020, 06:14:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 24, 2020, 05:53:18 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2020, 01:21:27 PM
Professor Isaac Benn has indicated that the Coronavirus dies out after 70 days regardless of lockdowns. Everyone's lockdown is different but all results are the same in terms of what is happening.
Interesting read

There is more manure  in this thread than the gardening one.

Let's take the example of Singapore, first cases in January. That is 90 days ago, so they should be smiling at this stage, yet oddly they are finding almost 1000 cases a day!!!

Smurfy source is right, sorry have to go now and blast my body with high doses ultraviolet light and inject myself with Domestos. See you on the other side.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 24, 2020, 07:38:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 24, 2020, 05:38:52 PM
Covid is a wild motherfucker of a virus

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30937-5/fulltext

"Cardiovascular complications are rapidly emerging as a key threat in coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) in addition to respiratory disease. The mechanisms underlying the disproportionate effect of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection on patients with cardiovascular comorbidities, however, remain incompletely understood.1,  2
SARS-CoV-2 infects the host using the angiotensin converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor, which is expressed in several organs, including the lung, heart, kidney, and intestine.
......

...vulnerable patients with pre-existing endothelial dysfunction, which is associated with males, smoking, hypertension, diabetes, obesity, and established cardiovascular disease, all of which are associated with adverse outcomes in COVID-19."

There are stories coming out of people arriving at the doctor's office or sitting in their hospital bed, fiddling on their phones, fully alert, while their blood oxygen saturation levels are dangerously low. Hours later they're intubated or dead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on April 24, 2020, 08:45:26 PM
What's the story with the guards in the south lads? Are there regular checkpoints? Was planning on driving back to London next week (came home for a month there) and get the boat in Rosslare.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 24, 2020, 09:26:17 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 24, 2020, 08:45:26 PM
What's the story with the guards in the south lads? Are there regular checkpoints? Was planning on driving back to London next week (came home for a month there) and get the boat in Rosslare.

I'm sure it varies but 2 weeks ago I got stopped every day on way to work and every evening on way home. Last 2 weeks absolutely nothing. Woulsnt you be better go to stranraer and drive down, if you get stopped in south they'll send you home or fine you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on April 24, 2020, 09:29:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 24, 2020, 09:26:17 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 24, 2020, 08:45:26 PM
What's the story with the guards in the south lads? Are there regular checkpoints? Was planning on driving back to London next week (came home for a month there) and get the boat in Rosslare.

I'm sure it varies but 2 weeks ago I got stopped every day on way to work and every evening on way home. Last 2 weeks absolutely nothing. Woulsnt you be better go to stranraer and drive down, if you get stopped in south they'll send you home or fine you.
The Guards will not be blocking somebody who wants to exit the country. If stopped just have the evidence of a boat ticket handy and it's 'bon voyage Walter'.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 24, 2020, 09:32:53 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 24, 2020, 09:29:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 24, 2020, 09:26:17 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 24, 2020, 08:45:26 PM
What's the story with the guards in the south lads? Are there regular checkpoints? Was planning on driving back to London next week (came home for a month there) and get the boat in Rosslare.

I'm sure it varies but 2 weeks ago I got stopped every day on way to work and every evening on way home. Last 2 weeks absolutely nothing. Woulsnt you be better go to stranraer and drive down, if you get stopped in south they'll send you home or fine you.
The Guards will not be blocking somebody who wants to exit the country. If stopped just have the evidence of a boat ticket handy and it's 'bon voyage Walter'.

That's not a chance I'd be taking, you get a contrary guard you are missing your boat. Anyway, its Walter's risk to take
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on April 24, 2020, 09:43:46 PM
Cant see it being a problem at all. If you have a valid ticket for the boat I cannot see any reason not to let you complete the journey.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on April 24, 2020, 09:43:54 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 24, 2020, 09:32:53 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 24, 2020, 09:29:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 24, 2020, 09:26:17 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 24, 2020, 08:45:26 PM
What's the story with the guards in the south lads? Are there regular checkpoints? Was planning on driving back to London next week (came home for a month there) and get the boat in Rosslare.

I'm sure it varies but 2 weeks ago I got stopped every day on way to work and every evening on way home. Last 2 weeks absolutely nothing. Woulsnt you be better go to stranraer and drive down, if you get stopped in south they'll send you home or fine you.
The Guards will not be blocking somebody who wants to exit the country. If stopped just have the evidence of a boat ticket handy and it's 'bon voyage Walter'.

That's not a chance I'd be taking, you get a contrary guard you are missing your boat. Anyway, its Walter's risk to take
There's cross border freedom of travel. Do you think the Guards would prevent a cardriver making his way to Dublin airport to catch a scheduled flight? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 24, 2020, 09:47:38 PM
Quote from: ardtole on April 24, 2020, 09:43:46 PM
Cant see it being a problem at all. If you have a valid ticket for the boat I cannot see any reason not to let you complete the journey.

Exactly. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 25, 2020, 12:38:57 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 24, 2020, 09:43:54 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 24, 2020, 09:32:53 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 24, 2020, 09:29:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 24, 2020, 09:26:17 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 24, 2020, 08:45:26 PM
What's the story with the guards in the south lads? Are there regular checkpoints? Was planning on driving back to London next week (came home for a month there) and get the boat in Rosslare.

I'm sure it varies but 2 weeks ago I got stopped every day on way to work and every evening on way home. Last 2 weeks absolutely nothing. Woulsnt you be better go to stranraer and drive down, if you get stopped in south they'll send you home or fine you.
The Guards will not be blocking somebody who wants to exit the country. If stopped just have the evidence of a boat ticket handy and it's 'bon voyage Walter'.

That's not a chance I'd be taking, you get a contrary guard you are missing your boat. Anyway, its Walter's risk to take
There's cross border freedom of travel. Do you think the Guards would prevent a cardriver making his way to Dublin airport to catch a scheduled flight?

In case you missed it there is no freedom of travel at the moment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on April 25, 2020, 01:01:21 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 25, 2020, 12:38:57 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 24, 2020, 09:43:54 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 24, 2020, 09:32:53 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 24, 2020, 09:29:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 24, 2020, 09:26:17 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 24, 2020, 08:45:26 PM
What's the story with the guards in the south lads? Are there regular checkpoints? Was planning on driving back to London next week (came home for a month there) and get the boat in Rosslare.

I'm sure it varies but 2 weeks ago I got stopped every day on way to work and every evening on way home. Last 2 weeks absolutely nothing. Woulsnt you be better go to stranraer and drive down, if you get stopped in south they'll send you home or fine you.
The Guards will not be blocking somebody who wants to exit the country. If stopped just have the evidence of a boat ticket handy and it's 'bon voyage Walter'.

That's not a chance I'd be taking, you get a contrary guard you are missing your boat. Anyway, its Walter's risk to take
There's cross border freedom of travel. Do you think the Guards would prevent a cardriver making his way to Dublin airport to catch a scheduled flight?

In case you missed it there is no freedom of travel at the moment.
I wrote "cross border freedom of travel".
The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade advises against all non-essential travel overseas until further notice. This includes Great Britain but does not apply to Northern Ireland
The Irish Health Authorities require anyone coming into Ireland, apart from Northern Ireland, to restrict their movements on arrival for 14 days

Can you evisage a Garda checkpoint turning back sombody on their way to Dublin airport to catch a flight on the basis of a power they imagined they held?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 25, 2020, 02:15:34 AM
Had the wife's 20 week scan today in Barcelona. On way home two cops in a car stopped, called out to us and asked us our craic. We told them we were on the way home sheet a trip to the hospital, asked did they want to see our self declaration and we were on our way. No bother at all. Stopped at a supermarket in the way home for 15 mins. All fine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on April 25, 2020, 02:45:06 AM
Quote from: gallsman on April 25, 2020, 02:15:34 AM
Had the wife's 20 week scan today in Barcelona. On way home two cops in a car stopped, called out to us and asked us our craic. We told them we were on the way home sheet a trip to the hospital, asked did they want to see our self declaration and we were on our way. No bother at all. Stopped at a supermarket in the way home for 15 mins. All fine.
your first time outside in how long ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 25, 2020, 07:03:47 AM
The best medical and scientific advice.... that Dominic Cummings is guiding.

Time everyone woke up. Bundle of f**king chancers running the response including the CMOs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 25, 2020, 07:37:15 AM
The whole thing from start to finish has been an absolute disgrace
A national scandal and an enquiring should open when this is over
Multiple people need to stand before a judge
On a side note and I'll say it again hospitals are empty up and down the country north and south
The new nightingale hospital has not been used. Time to wake up and smell the coffee. The curve has not only been slowed it has stopped

People uninfected be Coronavirus
99.994% of China's 1.4 billion population was uninfected
99.729% of Italy's 60 million population
99.817% of USA's 330 million population
99.633% of Spain's 47 million population
99.842% of Germany's 83 million population
99.910% of Iran's 83 million population
99.798% of France's 65 million population
99.698% of Switzerland's 8.6 million population
99.858% of UK's 67 million population
99.979% of South Korea's 51 million population
99.889% of Sweden's 10.3 million population
99.974% of Australia's 25 million population
99.974% of the World's 7.5 billion population
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 25, 2020, 09:10:32 AM
700 plus people have died per day in the uk almost consistently for the last two weeks and so sign of abating yet. In the teens of people are dying up north per day and regularly up towards fifty in the south. No curve has been stopped. It stops when we go to zero in deaths and new infections. That is when it stops.

Trailer speaks a wee bit of sense in there in that we can make moves back to normal society sensibly. You don't speak any sense. Yes we can't go on like this indefinitely but if we go back to normal living then the curve, which is not stopped, goes back to exponential again.

You use UK stats like everyday has been tested. Same in a lot of places really.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 25, 2020, 09:30:07 AM
Telling the truth hurts tommy
The hospitals across the uk and Ireland are empty
NHS staff are doing nothing.
Give over will you
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 25, 2020, 09:34:15 AM
Sorry about that. It was just reading about hundreds upon hundreds dying every day struck a chord with me. I must be getting soft ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: pbat on April 25, 2020, 09:46:30 AM
Part of the reason hospital's are coping is because homes are not allowed to send their residents there if infected. My uncles home has been told no one will be admitted to hospital if infected, they are to be made comfortable. There has been 3 deaths in it. 

My friend is a manager in a NHS dementia home that deal with people private residential homes cannot deal with. 4 weeks ago they were instructed they will only be offering palliative care if anyone gets it and no patient will be transferred to hospital.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 25, 2020, 10:13:28 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 25, 2020, 09:34:15 AM
Sorry about that. It was just reading about hundreds upon hundreds dying every day struck a chord with me. I must be getting soft ::)
You need to man up like Smurfy.
He'd have made a great SS man.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on April 25, 2020, 10:45:19 AM
The High expressed emotion on this thread is unhelpful as it blurs the facts.

It's unfair to portray those that are advocating getting things "back to normal" as insensitive to those that are dying , ruthlessly putting the economy before public health.

This is a major public health challenge and it appears with the under usage of hospitals , we have turned out to be "over-prepared" for a surge of deaths that hasn't  happened. In reality the surge hasn't happened due to the incredible community response. Being over-prepared is an accusation we can tolerate much better than if we were under prepared.

Loads of Statistics have been fired out, but these are meaningless in the absence of appropriate context.
Calm rational debate on contextualising our current and future position, including drilling down the relevance of various statistics , would be much more helpful.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 25, 2020, 11:15:27 AM
I meant nothing as in what they normally would be doing
Let me stress all NHS staff are brilliant and are the reason why things seem to be getting better and if one thing positive comes out of this it will be that they get a pay rise straight away.
They are our heroes and deserve all they get
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 25, 2020, 04:27:25 PM
(https://scontent.fdub5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/93994242_10223141132738377_2549775535056093184_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=110474&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=AQUMU7QvF5MAX9INxLm&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub5-1.fna&_nc_tp=14&oh=1b97b3bd9bdbe895610ca343aa8fb832&oe=5EC9617C)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 25, 2020, 04:38:49 PM
Second wave? With the amount of people out and about round Arnagh we'll not get out of the first wave. Loads of motorbikes on the roads today too. Just another sunny day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 25, 2020, 04:55:48 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 25, 2020, 04:38:49 PM
Second wave? With the amount of people out and about round Arnagh we'll not get out of the first wave. Loads of motorbikes on the roads today too. Just another sunny day.

I'd rather skip to the third wave! My belly is getting getting wobbly! I think beer makes you fat
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 25, 2020, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 25, 2020, 04:27:25 PM
(https://scontent.fdub5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/93994242_10223141132738377_2549775535056093184_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=110474&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=AQUMU7QvF5MAX9INxLm&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub5-1.fna&_nc_tp=14&oh=1b97b3bd9bdbe895610ca343aa8fb832&oe=5EC9617C)

Yawn
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 25, 2020, 05:47:16 PM
"The curve has stopped" was mentioned trailer. Not by you granted.

20k plus deaths in the uk in 51 days and 700 plus today. How anyone can say the curve has stopped is beyond me.

52 deaths in the 26 and 377 new confirmed cases and that is just from people they are testing.

Far from over by a long shot though I do think like you say sensible measures need looked at for how we move society on to what I would call a new normal as I don't think what was previously normal can be achieved for a very long time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 25, 2020, 06:56:01 PM
True Tommy.
Was looking at an item on hairdressers and reopening on the News.
Perspex screens, protective disposable gowns, gloves, face masks and 2 metre social distancing to be mandatory before they can reopen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aaron Boone on April 25, 2020, 09:32:14 PM
Those perspex screens at the supermar are here to stay.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 25, 2020, 09:36:01 PM
Before any kind of relaxation of lockdown (which I agree cannot be maintained like this unchanged till a vaccine arrives) - the following must happen:

(1) A weekly testing rate sufficient to diagnose all cases and enable tracing/isolation related to those cases
or
(2) Demonstration of immunity provided, and that immunity prevents onward transmission of a "freshly picked up infection" and a sufficiently accurate anti-body test is developed and used in a testing campaign widespread enough to allow anyone that has antibodies to be released from lockdown. Add this to (1) and it would allow a quicker release.

Otherwise, we are more or less just inviting a much worse second wave.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 25, 2020, 09:41:18 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 25, 2020, 07:37:15 AM
The whole thing from start to finish has been an absolute disgrace
A national scandal and an enquiring should open when this is over
Multiple people need to stand before a judge
On a side note and I'll say it again hospitals are empty up and down the country north and south
The new nightingale hospital has not been used. Time to wake up and smell the coffee. The curve has not only been slowed it has stopped

You really are making a show of yourself. Better to have people think you might be an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt.


Do you think that the measures taken around the world might, just possibly might, have had an influence on how many were infected and how many died?


Explain the disparity in death count among the regions of Italy relative to their population if there is no effect of any measures taken - which is essentially what you are saying.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1099389/coronavirus-deaths-by-region-in-italy/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/617497/resident-population-italy-by-region/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 25, 2020, 09:54:08 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 24, 2020, 08:45:26 PM
What's the story with the guards in the south lads? Are there regular checkpoints? Was planning on driving back to London next week (came home for a month there) and get the boat in Rosslare.

On the RTÉ news there that Nordies can do what they like.
The guy from Derry jailed for being in Kerry will be pleased with that.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 25, 2020, 04:55:48 PM
I'd rather skip to the third wave! My belly is getting getting wobbly! I think beer makes you fat

It also reduces your intelligence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 25, 2020, 10:44:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 25, 2020, 09:54:08 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 24, 2020, 08:45:26 PM
What's the story with the guards in the south lads? Are there regular checkpoints? Was planning on driving back to London next week (came home for a month there) and get the boat in Rosslare.

On the RTÉ news there that Nordies can do what they like.
The guy from Derry jailed for being in Kerry will be pleased with that.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 25, 2020, 04:55:48 PM
I'd rather skip to the third wave! My belly is getting getting wobbly! I think beer makes you fat

It also reduces your intelligence.

You're on a roll plastic paddy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on April 25, 2020, 11:12:10 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 25, 2020, 09:30:07 AM
Telling the truth hurts tommy
The hospitals across the uk and Ireland are empty
NHS staff are doing nothing.
Give over will you

They've been doing great tik tok videos from what I've seen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on April 26, 2020, 12:55:31 AM
Nordies still sucking hard on the subvention tit, don't want a united Ireland tomorrow, yet don't want to be a part of Brexit UK and their dreadful UK Corona virus stats. And now they can ride roughshod at will across the border and create mayhem without fear of retribution from the Gardai, albeit an invisible border, a border that made unseen so they wouldn't start blowing things up again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 26, 2020, 01:27:05 AM
The castle catholics of the north will never let go of the UK, even if it kills them. This crisis has shown that.

All about the money for the majority of them, the posters on here never tire of reminding us, sad but true  :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 26, 2020, 09:14:17 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 26, 2020, 12:55:31 AM
Nordies still sucking hard on the subvention tit, don't want a united Ireland tomorrow, yet don't want to be a part of Brexit UK and their dreadful UK Corona virus stats. And now they can ride roughshod at will across the border and create mayhem without fear of retribution from the Gardai, albeit an invisible border, a border that made unseen so they wouldn't start blowing things up again.

Have a few cans last night did you, big man?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 26, 2020, 09:22:24 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 26, 2020, 12:55:31 AM
Nordies still sucking hard on the subvention tit, don't want a united Ireland tomorrow, yet don't want to be a part of Brexit UK and their dreadful UK Corona virus stats. And now they can ride roughshod at will across the border and create mayhem without fear of retribution from the Gardai, albeit an invisible border, a border that made unseen so they wouldn't start blowing things up again.

Poor.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 26, 2020, 09:28:55 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 25, 2020, 09:54:08 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on April 24, 2020, 08:45:26 PM
What's the story with the guards in the south lads? Are there regular checkpoints? Was planning on driving back to London next week (came home for a month there) and get the boat in Rosslare.

On the RTÉ news there that Nordies can do what they like.
The guy from Derry jailed for being in Kerry will be pleased with that.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 25, 2020, 04:55:48 PM
I'd rather skip to the third wave! My belly is getting getting wobbly! I think beer makes you fat

It also reduces your intelligence.
That article was a bit of a red herring. He was jailed for breaching his bail conditions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 26, 2020, 09:44:43 AM
Interesting night, lockdown getting the better of some it seems
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on April 26, 2020, 09:48:34 AM
Main Street and Mikhail still in bed id guess. Nursing one..

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on April 26, 2020, 09:51:39 AM
This is a really interesting article: https://quillette.com/2020/04/23/covid-19-superspreader-events-in-28-countries-critical-patterns-and-lessons/

The start of it is quite technical, but it's worth bearing with.  In essence the author suggests that the vast majority of super spreading incidents happened through face to face "droplet sharing", ie shouting or signing in close proximity to people.
I think it's a really interesting take and it should be studied more, as if true, it would offer a really clear path to us emerging out of lockdown.  There would be no need to worry about traveling on public transport (as people generally don't talk on it), shopping would be OK, and most forms of work would be OK.

Have a read of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 26, 2020, 09:55:49 AM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 26, 2020, 09:48:34 AM
Main Street and Mikhail still in bed id guess. Nursing one..

Probably together by the looks of it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 26, 2020, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 26, 2020, 09:51:39 AM
This is a really interesting article: https://quillette.com/2020/04/23/covid-19-superspreader-events-in-28-countries-critical-patterns-and-lessons/

The start of it is quite technical, but it's worth bearing with.  In essence the author suggests that the vast majority of super spreading incidents happened through face to face "droplet sharing", ie shouting or signing in close proximity to people.
I think it's a really interesting take and it should be studied more, as if true, it would offer a really clear path to us emerging out of lockdown.  There would be no need to worry about traveling on public transport (as people generally don't talk on it), shopping would be OK, and most forms of work would be OK.

Have a read of it.

So wearing a mask would prevent spreading?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 26, 2020, 10:10:39 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 25, 2020, 07:37:15 AM
The whole thing from start to finish has been an absolute disgrace
A national scandal and an enquiring should open when this is over
Multiple people need to stand before a judge
On a side note and I'll say it again hospitals are empty up and down the country north and south
The new nightingale hospital has not been used. Time to wake up and smell the coffee. The curve has not only been slowed it has stopped

People uninfected be Coronavirus
99.994% of China's 1.4 billion population was uninfected
99.729% of Italy's 60 million population
99.817% of USA's 330 million population
99.633% of Spain's 47 million population
99.842% of Germany's 83 million population
99.910% of Iran's 83 million population
99.798% of France's 65 million population
99.698% of Switzerland's 8.6 million population
99.858% of UK's 67 million population
99.979% of South Korea's 51 million population
99.889% of Sweden's 10.3 million population
99.974% of Australia's 25 million population
99.974% of the World's 7.5 billion population

Are these figures accurate?

Obviously take a side lack of mass testing etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 26, 2020, 10:19:30 AM
Those figures are complete nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 26, 2020, 11:21:04 AM
Anyone hear about the factory in Gwedore RAP. They had stopped manufacturing packaging for the food industry and have come up with a very impressive looking face mask. I got my hands on a few, very impressive design and wait for it they can make 10 million a week.
Well done to the brains behind this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 26, 2020, 11:36:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 26, 2020, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 26, 2020, 09:51:39 AM
This is a really interesting article: https://quillette.com/2020/04/23/covid-19-superspreader-events-in-28-countries-critical-patterns-and-lessons/

The start of it is quite technical, but it's worth bearing with.  In essence the author suggests that the vast majority of super spreading incidents happened through face to face "droplet sharing", ie shouting or signing in close proximity to people.
I think it's a really interesting take and it should be studied more, as if true, it would offer a really clear path to us emerging out of lockdown.  There would be no need to worry about traveling on public transport (as people generally don't talk on it), shopping would be OK, and most forms of work would be OK.

Have a read of it.

So wearing a mask would prevent spreading?

Looks like it - but not enough data to confirm its large or small droplets (the latter necessitating a proper mask rather than scarf etc).

Here's the real article its based on:

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0764_article

edit: Need to clarify this - a mask would as you say, prevent a carrier spreading it, but it won't prevent someone picking it up from airborne droplets (suspended or not) - for instance a suspended droplet lands on your finger unnoticed and you rub your eye a minute later.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: shantygael on April 26, 2020, 11:39:18 AM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 26, 2020, 09:48:34 AM
Main Street and Mikhail still in bed id guess. Nursing one..
They are in the queue  at Asda in strabane
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 26, 2020, 12:06:30 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 26, 2020, 01:27:05 AM
The castle catholics of the north will never let go of the UK, even if it kills them. This crisis has shown that.

All about the money for the majority of them, the posters on here never tire of reminding us, sad but true  :(

True - too many garden centre 'nationalists' on the green side.

A lot of Gaa people have no time for culture or the Irish language - just a hobby.  People write the word 'northern ireland' in newspapers and in interviews etc - disgraceful.

Haven't read the Irish News in a while but it was all 'northern ireland' this and 'northern ireland' that: oh, how the policy of colonization has worked.

A state apart....ehhh.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 26, 2020, 12:08:48 PM
Yeah radiogaagaa mask stops you spreading it. I do wonder will that come in. Mandatory in Czech Republic and probably quite a few other countries.

Some stats ... 16 in nightingale city hospital(scoped for 230). 90 in Ulster due to virus with 4 on ventilators.

Definitely hasn't hit as bad as expected or planned for although worst case was planned for however as most of us understand that would be due to lockdown... next steps will be very interesting.

There has to be some kind of "new normal". Any attempt to go back to previous normal and massive surge. As people would say the lockdown is probably more to protect the nhs  or health service from being overrun than anything else.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 26, 2020, 12:22:38 PM
I just want back to work safely and for my clients. If it takes another 3 months and full PPE and other measures then so be it.

This being off lark (while I enjoy the time of with family) is not good for the overall economy so while continuing to search for vaccines, ramp up the testing and start the contact tracing, look into ways of getting things right for a phased opening up of our businesses and schools, though the schools one is going to be very difficult to keep social distancing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 26, 2020, 12:59:54 PM
Nurseries will be impossible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 26, 2020, 01:07:38 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 26, 2020, 09:51:39 AM
This is a really interesting article: https://quillette.com/2020/04/23/covid-19-superspreader-events-in-28-countries-critical-patterns-and-lessons/

The start of it is quite technical, but it's worth bearing with.  In essence the author suggests that the vast majority of super spreading incidents happened through face to face "droplet sharing", ie shouting or signing in close proximity to people.
I think it's a really interesting take and it should be studied more, as if true, it would offer a really clear path to us emerging out of lockdown.  There would be no need to worry about traveling on public transport (as people generally don't talk on it), shopping would be OK, and most forms of work would be OK.

Have a read of it.
Read that earlier. Really interesting article. Long but as you say well worth reading.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 26, 2020, 01:14:59 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 26, 2020, 11:21:04 AM
Anyone hear about the factory in Gwedore RAP. They had stopped manufacturing packaging for the food industry and have come up with a very impressive looking face mask. I got my hands on a few, very impressive design and wait for it they can make 10 million a week.
Well done to the brains behind this.

Well done indeed. Saw it on the News the other night.
Disappointed that none of our 6 Co posters have commented on this.
They seem to be gone 100% partitionist these days ::)
Must be all garden centre Nationalists.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 26, 2020, 01:44:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 26, 2020, 01:14:59 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 26, 2020, 11:21:04 AM
Anyone hear about the factory in Gwedore RAP. They had stopped manufacturing packaging for the food industry and have come up with a very impressive looking face mask. I got my hands on a few, very impressive design and wait for it they can make 10 million a week.
Well done to the brains behind this.

Well done indeed. Saw it on the News the other night.
Disappointed that none of our 6 Co posters have commented on this.
They seem to be gone 100% partitionist these days ::)
Must be all garden centre Nationalists.

Sure you free staters have it all under control, ever since you started social distancing from the north when you turned your back on your fellow citizens.  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on April 26, 2020, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 26, 2020, 12:55:31 AM
Nordies still sucking hard on the subvention tit, don't want a united Ireland tomorrow, yet don't want to be a part of Brexit UK and their dreadful UK Corona virus stats. And now they can ride roughshod at will across the border and create mayhem without fear of retribution from the Gardai, albeit an invisible border, a border that made unseen so they wouldn't start blowing things up again.
Again, you are from Monaghan ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 26, 2020, 05:14:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 26, 2020, 12:08:48 PM
Yeah radiogaagaa mask stops you spreading it. I do wonder will that come in. Mandatory in Czech Republic and probably quite a few other countries.

Some stats ... 16 in nightingale city hospital(scoped for 230). 90 in Ulster due to virus with 4 on ventilators.

Definitely hasn't hit as bad as expected or planned for although worst case was planned for however as most of us understand that would be due to lockdown... next steps will be very interesting.

There has to be some kind of "new normal". Any attempt to go back to previous normal and massive surge. As people would say the lockdown is probably more to protect the nhs  or health service from being overrun than anything else.

I don't know that it is proven that masks stop you spreading anything.

However, what our experts are telling us is that the mask gives people a false sense of security and gets people complacent and they stop to drop our biggest defence, social distancing, becuase the think the magic mask will protect them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 26, 2020, 05:17:03 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-52430855

Dont tell Jim Corr.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 26, 2020, 05:46:52 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 26, 2020, 05:14:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 26, 2020, 12:08:48 PM
Yeah radiogaagaa mask stops you spreading it. I do wonder will that come in. Mandatory in Czech Republic and probably quite a few other countries.

Some stats ... 16 in nightingale city hospital(scoped for 230). 90 in Ulster due to virus with 4 on ventilators.

Definitely hasn't hit as bad as expected or planned for although worst case was planned for however as most of us understand that would be due to lockdown... next steps will be very interesting.

There has to be some kind of "new normal". Any attempt to go back to previous normal and massive surge. As people would say the lockdown is probably more to protect the nhs  or health service from being overrun than anything else.

I don't know that it is proven that masks stop you spreading anything.

However, what our experts are telling us is that the mask gives people a false sense of security and gets people complacent and they stop to drop our biggest defence, social distancing, becuase the think the magic mask will protect them.

I should have said help stop you spread it but it is for the protection of others not you.

Yeah some places just not hit as bad as expected and some hospitals just not being utilised although they are specked for the worst case. Not as bad as expected due to distancing it should be added...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 26, 2020, 06:28:34 PM
Lots of people meeting up this weekend. What the Garda or PSNI going to do? Arrest them all?  The game is up. Restrictions must be relaxed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 26, 2020, 06:43:50 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 26, 2020, 06:28:34 PM
Lots of people meeting up this weekend. What the Garda or PSNI going to do? Arrest them all?  The game is up. Restrictions must be relaxed.

Scrap speed limits then. Nobody obeys them anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 26, 2020, 06:48:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 26, 2020, 06:28:34 PM
Lots of people meeting up this weekend. What the Garda or PSNI going to do? Arrest them all?  The game is up. Restrictions must be relaxed.

Just seize their cars or phones perhaps, if these are being use in the commission of a crime.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on April 26, 2020, 06:50:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 26, 2020, 06:48:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 26, 2020, 06:28:34 PM
Lots of people meeting up this weekend. What the Garda or PSNI going to do? Arrest them all?  The game is up. Restrictions must be relaxed.

Just seize their cars or phones perhaps, if these are being use in the commission of a crime.
;D ;D ;D thank god yous two arent politcians
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 26, 2020, 06:55:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 26, 2020, 06:28:34 PM
Lots of people meeting up this weekend. What the Garda or PSNI going to do? Arrest them all?  The game is up. Restrictions must be relaxed.

One of ireland most famous beaches is within 2km of my house. It was totally deserted at 4pm today. It may not be universal but by and large people are behaving themselves.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 26, 2020, 07:11:19 PM
People are asking the tough questions. They want to know what these CMO fraudsters have been up to. What do the Govs know and don't know. Restrictions will have to be relaxed. Trust in government as well as CMOs and WHO is definitely on the wane.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 26, 2020, 07:26:24 PM
is that you Donald??

facepalm emoji  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 26, 2020, 07:50:02 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 26, 2020, 07:26:24 PM
is that you Donald??

facepalm emoji  ::)
You had a wee face palm moment in the middle of the night there in case ye can't remember. Redner
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 26, 2020, 07:50:27 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 26, 2020, 07:26:24 PM
is that you Donald??

facepalm emoji  ::)
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 26, 2020, 01:27:05 AM
The castle catholics of the north will never let go of the UK, even if it kills them. This crisis has shown that.

All about the money for the majority of them, the posters on here never tire of reminding us, sad but true  :(

Aye dead on ya fool!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on April 26, 2020, 10:32:35 PM
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1254484489067167745?s=21


But sure it's a big deal over nothing according to Smurfy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 27, 2020, 07:41:29 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on April 26, 2020, 10:32:35 PM
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1254484489067167745?s=21


But sure it's a big deal over nothing according to Smurfy

In fairness Ogra there were more than smurfy saying the same not so log ago
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 27, 2020, 08:33:30 AM
Well if I did say it was no big deal I probably let things run away
What I mean is that we need to get a balance on things
To stop everything is going to have catastrophic consequences in the long run
We need to get a balance on things
What I do know is Boris Johnstone and Co have made a balls up on things
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2020, 08:56:29 AM
Lockdown would only have been a solution had extensive testing and contact testing been carried out in junction with the lockdown. That hasn't happened. Making people stay at home has perhaps slowed the spread, but as a solution it's failed. People have seen the response from the Governments and other "medical advisers" for what it is. A brute force way of covering up their own incompetence. So lets get these draconian restrictions lifted, implement some sensible social distancing measures and get back to work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 27, 2020, 08:59:29 AM
I don't really think it was ever meant to be a solution though - it is pretty much to ensure health services do not get overrun. For the short term despite the numbers not reading well at all the health services in Ireland do not appear to be overrun.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 27, 2020, 09:16:42 AM
Italians going back to 'normal'. Or at least plan to including bars and sports.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 27, 2020, 09:17:58 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2020, 08:56:29 AM
Lockdown would only have been a solution had extensive testing and contact testing been carried out in junction with the lockdown. That hasn't happened. Making people stay at home has perhaps slowed the spread, but as a solution it's failed. People have seen the response from the Governments and other "medical advisers" for what it is. A brute force way of covering up their own incompetence. So lets get these draconian restrictions lifted, implement some sensible social distancing measures and get back to work.

They can't be lifted till there is a proper test & trace system in place.

They still haven't got their finger out on that, so lockdown will (at least mostly) have to continue for a while.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2020, 09:25:21 AM
Into week six here, I take it there will be another 3 weeks added to this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 27, 2020, 09:28:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2020, 09:25:21 AM
Into week six here, I take it there will be another 3 weeks added to this.

Boris has basically said as much there now alright.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 27, 2020, 09:28:39 AM
Is there ever going to be a proper tracing system in place though RadioGAAGAA? Testing the tories will just spin lies on in terms of the UK but I wasn't even sure they had a plan. I am not sure about the rest of Ireland on that front mind.

There are some very interesting projects going on from a data perspective on the tracing but they will only count if everyone takes part which isn't feasible as I doubt everyone wants google knowing their exact whereabouts all the time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 27, 2020, 09:32:02 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 27, 2020, 09:28:39 AM
Is there ever going to be a proper tracing system in place though RadioGAAGAA? Testing the tories will just spin lies on in terms of the UK but I wasn't even sure they had a plan. I am not sure about the rest of Ireland on that front mind.

There are some very interesting projects going on from a data perspective on the tracing but they will only count if everyone takes part which isn't feasible as I doubt everyone wants google knowing their exact whereabouts all the time.

Costs effort, money and time. Hard to see it being implemented - likely be more of the same and hope the current measures get the UK to where it needs to be.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 27, 2020, 09:34:44 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2020, 08:56:29 AM
Lockdown would only have been a solution had extensive testing and contact testing been carried out in junction with the lockdown. That hasn't happened. Making people stay at home has perhaps slowed the spread, but as a solution it's failed. People have seen the response from the Governments and other "medical advisers" for what it is. A brute force way of covering up their own incompetence. So lets get these draconian restrictions lifted, implement some sensible social distancing measures and get back to work.
Perhaps? Ah c'mon you cant be serious trailer. Look I think there will be relaxing of some measures in the weeks ahead. Meeting up with close friends and family allowed. Keeping to your bubble as they are referring to it in New Zealand. Bars and restaurants opening up to the public with even limited numbers and such is still a fair bit off IMO. There will be social distancing measures in place for at least the rest of the year. I think people in general will be glad to get back some freedoms, like meeting up with friends and family, whilst still taking precautions, visiting, beaches, parks, even holiday homes, and be content enough with that until this virus is really beaten down. All manufacturing should be back, if the demand is there, it really wasn't suppose to stop in the first place, if the employers could introduce effective counter measures, like extra shifts, reducing numbers in the premises at any given time, wiping down surfaces, extra cleaning etc etc. Thats what we done here and didn't close at all. I do agree with you that government was poor on this front. The message was vague and did cause confusion, pitting employees against employers. Some people genuinely thought it would be over in a few weeks, and couldnt understand why they couldn't just get furlough, whilst not understanding even the immediate problem that would cause for a lot of companies in the short term. Think its sinking in with most people, that its not furlough companies are trying to avoid, its redundancies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 27, 2020, 09:36:26 AM
Yeah I can't ever see the tracing being implemented(or at least implemented well) here.

They need a plan to starting to get back to "new normal" but with 800+ deaths a day in the UK anyway it would be a good bit too soon and I still don't think anywhere near enough understanding of contagiousness.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 27, 2020, 09:37:15 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 27, 2020, 09:32:02 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 27, 2020, 09:28:39 AM
Is there ever going to be a proper tracing system in place though RadioGAAGAA? Testing the tories will just spin lies on in terms of the UK but I wasn't even sure they had a plan. I am not sure about the rest of Ireland on that front mind.

There are some very interesting projects going on from a data perspective on the tracing but they will only count if everyone takes part which isn't feasible as I doubt everyone wants google knowing their exact whereabouts all the time.

Costs effort, money and time. Hard to see it being implemented - likely be more of the same and hope the current measures get the UK to where it needs to be.

The money is no excuse, proper tracing would allow more of the economy to open which would repay the cost 10 times over. The time has been wasted, they just have to get stuck in at this stage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 27, 2020, 09:43:53 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2020, 09:37:15 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 27, 2020, 09:32:02 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 27, 2020, 09:28:39 AM
Is there ever going to be a proper tracing system in place though RadioGAAGAA? Testing the tories will just spin lies on in terms of the UK but I wasn't even sure they had a plan. I am not sure about the rest of Ireland on that front mind.

There are some very interesting projects going on from a data perspective on the tracing but they will only count if everyone takes part which isn't feasible as I doubt everyone wants google knowing their exact whereabouts all the time.

Costs effort, money and time. Hard to see it being implemented - likely be more of the same and hope the current measures get the UK to where it needs to be.

The money is no excuse, proper tracing would allow more of the economy to open which would repay the cost 10 times over. The time has been wasted, they just have to get stuck in at this stage.

I'm in agreement with you, but I think in reality - considering the Conservative Party is/was leaning towards the herd immunity thing. I don't think they'll make a shift to forensic tracing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on April 27, 2020, 09:55:02 AM
For anyone particularly interested, here's the EU guidelines on use of location data and contact tracing tools. I guess the question is whether you trust the governments and their respective bodies. 

https://edpb.europa.eu/sites/edpb/files/files/file1/edpb_guidelines_20200420_contact_tracing_covid_with_annex_en.pdf (https://edpb.europa.eu/sites/edpb/files/files/file1/edpb_guidelines_20200420_contact_tracing_covid_with_annex_en.pdf)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 27, 2020, 10:27:09 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 27, 2020, 09:28:39 AMI doubt everyone wants google knowing their exact whereabouts all the time.

Google already knows their exact whereabouts all the time - they just don't realise it.


See google maps with the traffic info - where do you think that info comes from? They see a rake of phones on the road at that point not moving = traffic jam.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 27, 2020, 10:30:26 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2020, 09:37:15 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 27, 2020, 09:32:02 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 27, 2020, 09:28:39 AM
Is there ever going to be a proper tracing system in place though RadioGAAGAA? Testing the tories will just spin lies on in terms of the UK but I wasn't even sure they had a plan. I am not sure about the rest of Ireland on that front mind.

There are some very interesting projects going on from a data perspective on the tracing but they will only count if everyone takes part which isn't feasible as I doubt everyone wants google knowing their exact whereabouts all the time.

Costs effort, money and time. Hard to see it being implemented - likely be more of the same and hope the current measures get the UK to where it needs to be.

The money is no excuse, proper tracing would allow more of the economy to open which would repay the cost 10 times over. The time has been wasted, they just have to get stuck in at this stage.

Ach, it'd repay 100,000 times over if not more.

They took the penny pinching route at the start and are now paying for it a thousandfold.

Lessons learned as always.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 27, 2020, 10:50:22 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 27, 2020, 10:27:09 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 27, 2020, 09:28:39 AMI doubt everyone wants google knowing their exact whereabouts all the time.

Google already knows their exact whereabouts all the time - they just don't realise it.


See google maps with the traffic info - where do you think that info comes from? They see a rake of phones on the road at that point not moving = traffic jam.
Only if location is switched on, surely
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 27, 2020, 11:28:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 27, 2020, 10:50:22 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 27, 2020, 10:27:09 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 27, 2020, 09:28:39 AMI doubt everyone wants google knowing their exact whereabouts all the time.

Google already knows their exact whereabouts all the time - they just don't realise it.


See google maps with the traffic info - where do you think that info comes from? They see a rake of phones on the road at that point not moving = traffic jam.
Only if location is switched on, surely
Even with location switched off your phone is pinging the masts so they will still likely glean some approximate info.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 27, 2020, 11:51:16 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on April 27, 2020, 11:28:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 27, 2020, 10:50:22 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 27, 2020, 10:27:09 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 27, 2020, 09:28:39 AMI doubt everyone wants google knowing their exact whereabouts all the time.

Google already knows their exact whereabouts all the time - they just don't realise it.


See google maps with the traffic info - where do you think that info comes from? They see a rake of phones on the road at that point not moving = traffic jam.
Only if location is switched on, surely
Even with location switched off your phone is pinging the masts so they will still likely glean some approximate info.

Approximate to within a few 10s of metres quite easily in any kinda built up area (assuming signal is not blocked by buildings).

4g masts are only good for a couple of km in range, so you have loads of them to triangulate between. Your phone is constantly pining the network for any updates on emails/texts/whatsapps etc. You time the difference in arrival times of any given ping between the various masts and you've a great means to calc relative distance from each mast - from that determining location is just a bit of simple number crunching.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2020, 12:56:28 PM
My understanding is that it'll use low level bluetooth. Other technical minds can maybe explain. Working off 4g masts would pick up neighbours who you could be close too but not in direct contact. Semi detached houses, terraced houses etc.

It'll be very interesting to see how all this effects our civil liberties. Is this the new normal we want? The issues around privacy are huge.

The population are actually welcoming huge restrictions on our everyday lives. Huge intrusion. Being told what we can do and when we can do it. Some of the population even think they are part of the East German Stasi reporting their neighbours. There's a huge study here that would be interesting to read.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2020, 12:59:26 PM
As long as your partner doesn't get that info you'll be fine ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2020, 01:03:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2020, 12:59:26 PM
As long as your partner doesn't get that info you'll be fine ;D

True or your boss. I was in a meeting, not playing a quick 9. Imagine the state were able to use this information against you. Perhaps to coerce you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 27, 2020, 01:05:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2020, 12:56:28 PM
My understanding is that it'll use low level bluetooth. Other technical minds can maybe explain. Working off 4g masts would pick up neighbours who you could be close too but not in direct contact. Semi detached houses, terraced houses etc.

It'll be very interesting to see how all this effects our civil liberties. Is this the new normal we want? The issues around privacy are huge.

The population are actually welcoming huge restrictions on our everyday lives. Huge intrusion. Being told what we can do and when we can do it. Some of the population even think they are part of the East German Stasi reporting their neighbours. There's a huge study here that would be interesting to read.

If it works of 5g masts Gemma O Doherty and the Tin Foil Hat brigade will have a melt down
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 27, 2020, 01:29:59 PM
Part of the motivation for some in leaving the EU would have been the loss of privacy rights... (definitely it was a big plus for may)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: charlieTully on April 27, 2020, 02:07:21 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 25, 2020, 11:12:10 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 25, 2020, 09:30:07 AM
Telling the truth hurts tommy
The hospitals across the uk and Ireland are empty
NHS staff are doing nothing.
Give over will you

They've been doing great tik tok videos from what I've seen.

Inbetween dying saving cnuts like you
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 27, 2020, 02:07:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2020, 12:56:28 PM
My understanding is that it'll use low level bluetooth.

Yep, that was my understanding too - a handshake between devices and then I guess the app on each phone will retain a list of MAC address (or some similar unique ID hash) & timestamps that then can be used later on to see what other phones were in close proximity to that handset.


Yeah, not ideal re. privacy - but as long as it can be cleanly uninstalled - and I assume a large number of people will be looking through every line to be sure that is the case. If you want lockdown to be lifted trailer, your gonna have to accept something like this to allow much more targeted responses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2020, 02:16:47 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on April 27, 2020, 02:07:21 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 25, 2020, 11:12:10 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 25, 2020, 09:30:07 AM
Telling the truth hurts tommy
The hospitals across the uk and Ireland are empty
NHS staff are doing nothing.
Give over will you

They've been doing great tik tok videos from what I've seen.

Inbetween dying saving cnuts like you

The point he is making is that hospitals are very quiet. That can't be denied.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on April 27, 2020, 03:05:07 PM
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1254056076552650754?s=20

https://twitter.com/Mckendrick36/status/1254063781719822336?s=20

Sums up the media response very well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on April 27, 2020, 03:18:59 PM
But Boris said it had been a success this morn....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on April 27, 2020, 03:31:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 26, 2020, 07:11:19 PM
People are asking the tough questions. They want to know what these CMO fraudsters have been up to. What do the Govs know and don't know. Restrictions will have to be relaxed. Trust in government as well as CMOs and WHO is definitely on the wane.

Comments like this are a complete scourge.
"CMO Fraudsters"
Are you for real? You sound like Trump. 

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 27, 2020, 04:16:13 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 26, 2020, 10:10:39 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 25, 2020, 07:37:15 AM
The whole thing from start to finish has been an absolute disgrace
A national scandal and an enquiring should open when this is over
Multiple people need to stand before a judge
On a side note and I'll say it again hospitals are empty up and down the country north and south
The new nightingale hospital has not been used. Time to wake up and smell the coffee. The curve has not only been slowed it has stopped

People uninfected be Coronavirus
99.994% of China's 1.4 billion population was uninfected
99.729% of Italy's 60 million population
99.817% of USA's 330 million population
99.633% of Spain's 47 million population
99.842% of Germany's 83 million population
99.910% of Iran's 83 million population
99.798% of France's 65 million population
99.698% of Switzerland's 8.6 million population
99.858% of UK's 67 million population
99.979% of South Korea's 51 million population
99.889% of Sweden's 10.3 million population
99.974% of Australia's 25 million population
99.974% of the World's 7.5 billion population

Are these figures accurate?

Obviously take a side lack of mass testing etc.

Looks like a totally legit site he copy and pasted that drivel from  ::)

https://www.sott.net/article/433187-90-Days-of-Madness-Official-Numbers-Prove-COVID-19-is-STILL-Benign

(https://www.sott.net/image/s28/565962/large/Hospitl_war_zones.jpg)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 04:38:21 PM
Is it time step up the precautions and restrict border crossings? 7 of the 8 counties in the south with the highest ration of infections are border counties.  Isn't it  time for Nordies to respect the rules  just as regular Irish people are obliged to, put an end to the special dispensations for cross border Nordies and apply the 2km restriction, unless there's a bona fide reason to travel further. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 27, 2020, 04:46:48 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 04:38:21 PM
Is it time step up the precautions and restrict border crossings? 7 of the 8 counties in the south with the highest ration of infections are border counties.  Isn't it  time for Nordies to respect the rules  just as regular Irish people are obliged to, put an end to the special dispensations for cross border Nordies and apply the 2km restriction, unless there's a bona fide reason to travel further. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907)

How can you apply a 2km restriction on someone who doesn't live here?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on April 27, 2020, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 04:38:21 PM
Is it time step up the precautions and restrict border crossings? 7 of the 8 counties in the south with the highest ration of infections are border counties.  Isn't it  time for Nordies to respect the rules  just as regular Irish people are obliged to, put an end to the special dispensations for cross border Nordies and apply the 2km restriction, unless there's a bona fide reason to travel further. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907)

Far more likely to be a hand washing issue in them border counties
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 27, 2020, 04:55:54 PM
Quote from: LCohen on April 27, 2020, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 04:38:21 PM
Is it time step up the precautions and restrict border crossings? 7 of the 8 counties in the south with the highest ration of infections are border counties.  Isn't it  time for Nordies to respect the rules  just as regular Irish people are obliged to, put an end to the special dispensations for cross border Nordies and apply the 2km restriction, unless there's a bona fide reason to travel further. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907)

Far more likely to be a hand washing issue in them border counties

It's a hospital issue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 27, 2020, 05:05:25 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 04:38:21 PM
Is it time step up the precautions and restrict border crossings? 7 of the 8 counties in the south with the highest ration of infections are border counties.  Isn't it  time for Nordies to respect the rules  just as regular Irish people are obliged to, put an end to the special dispensations for cross border Nordies and apply the 2km restriction, unless there's a bona fide reason to travel further. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907)

The HSE have a lot more data about who has the virus and how they got it. Without that detail speculation is difficult.



Quote from: five points on April 27, 2020, 04:46:48 PM
How can you apply a 2km restriction on someone who doesn't live here?

Just state that someone can go 2Km from there house wherever it is or go to the shop just like people in the ROI. Partitionism at a time like this is sick.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 27, 2020, 05:05:56 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 04:38:21 PM
Is it time step up the precautions and restrict border crossings? 7 of the 8 counties in the south with the highest ration of infections are border counties.  Isn't it  time for Nordies to respect the rules  just as regular Irish people are obliged to, put an end to the special dispensations for cross border Nordies and apply the 2km restriction, unless there's a bona fide reason to travel further. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907)

I can travel about 200 metres and be in Monaghan. So you are saying I shouldn't bother going to my local shop.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 27, 2020, 05:17:38 PM
Quote from: LCohen on April 27, 2020, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 04:38:21 PM
Is it time step up the precautions and restrict border crossings? 7 of the 8 counties in the south with the highest ration of infections are border counties.  Isn't it  time for Nordies to respect the rules  just as regular Irish people are obliged to, put an end to the special dispensations for cross border Nordies and apply the 2km restriction, unless there's a bona fide reason to travel further. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907)

Far more likely to be a hand washing issue in them border counties

The annual bath just doesn't cut it.  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 27, 2020, 05:22:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2020, 12:56:28 PM
It'll be very interesting to see how all this effects our civil liberties. Is this the new normal we want? The issues around privacy are huge.

The population are actually welcoming huge restrictions on our everyday lives. Huge intrusion. Being told what we can do and when we can do it. Some of the population even think they are part of the East German Stasi reporting their neighbours. There's a huge study here that would be interesting to read.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52441428

I have to admit, I'm not entirely comfortable with this:

QuoteExperts from GCHQ's National Cyber Security Centre have aided the effort.

NCSC indicated that its involvement has been limited to an advisory role.

"We advise you to use these lines of code" (which we know how to break into)

QuoteLike the authorities in many other countries, NHSX has opted to use wireless Bluetooth transmissions to keep track of each qualifying meeting, and has said that the alerts will be sent anonymously, so that users do not know who triggered them.

It has opted for a "centralised model" to achieve this - meaning that the matching process, which works out which phones to send alerts to - happens on a computer server.

This contrasts with Apple and Google's "decentralised" approach - where the matches take place on users' handsets.

The tech giants believe their effort provides more privacy, as it limits the ability of either the authorities or a hacker to use the computer server logs to track specific individuals and identify their social interactions.

But NHSX believes a centralised system will give it more insight into Covid-19's spread, and therefore how to evolve the app accordingly.

"One of the advantages is that it's easier to audit the system and adapt it more quickly as scientific evidence accumulates," Prof Christophe Fraser, one of the epidemiologists advising NHSX, told the BBC.

"The principal aim is to give notifications to people who are most at risk of having got infected, and not to people who are much lower risk.

"It's probably easier to do that with a centralised system."

It wouldn't be hard to achieve the main benefit* of the centralised system by having a decentralised system upload (i)all pertinent contacts, (ii)timestamps of those contacts & (iii)locations of those contacts when that handset user tests positive for COVID.

*that spread can be more quickly mapped by the NHS and provides higher fidelity data for tuning the social distancing measures.



Furthermore, the reasoning of Fraser doesn't stack up... the bit I've bolded is bullshit.

Anyone in contact needs to get tested as they could be an asymptotic carrier to others who are high risk. Smacks of more half-arsed approaches where they are subconsciously accepting they won't have testing capacity to do it right.


and I don't see why they are going their own way at all.

QuoteThe US company does not oppose the NHSX's own effort - and has supported the British team - but still believes its own solution is much more power-efficient.

The UK's solution involves waking up the app in the background every time the phone detects another device running the same software.

It then executes some code before returning to a dormant state. This all happens at speed, but there is still an energy impact.

By contrast, Apple's own solution allows the matching to be done without the app having to wake up at all.

And because the handshakes take even less time to execute, there should be much less toll on battery life.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on April 27, 2020, 05:59:26 PM
18 new deaths (1 of them probable) from Covid-19 brings the ROI total to 1,102. A further 386 cases means there are now 19,648 confirmed cases of the coronavirus in ROI.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2020, 06:03:08 PM
Chris Witty the UKs CMO doesn't come across as credible. Unable to answer basic questions. Was to slow to act and now presiding over a death total of 21k. One of highest in the world.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 27, 2020, 06:03:23 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 27, 2020, 05:59:26 PM
18 new deaths (1 of them probable) from Covid-19 brings the ROI total to 1,102. A further 386 cases means there are now 19,648 confirmed cases of the coronavirus in ROI.

that would be going in the right direction,  if it didn't just represent a lull over Sunday.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 07:03:38 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 27, 2020, 05:05:56 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 04:38:21 PM
Is it time step up the precautions and restrict border crossings? 7 of the 8 counties in the south with the highest ration of infections are border counties.  Isn't it  time for Nordies to respect the rules  just as regular Irish people are obliged to, put an end to the special dispensations for cross border Nordies and apply the 2km restriction, unless there's a bona fide reason to travel further. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907)

I can travel about 200 metres and be in Monaghan. So you are saying I shouldn't bother going to my local shop.
Is your local shop within a 2km distance from the border? If the answer is yes, then you would be following local regulations, proceed and shop.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 07:18:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2020, 05:05:25 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 04:38:21 PM
Is it time step up the precautions and restrict border crossings? 7 of the 8 counties in the south with the highest ration of infections are border counties.  Isn't it  time for Nordies to respect the rules  just as regular Irish people are obliged to, put an end to the special dispensations for cross border Nordies and apply the 2km restriction, unless there's a bona fide reason to travel further. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907)

The HSE have a lot more data about who has the virus and how they got it. Without that detail speculation is difficult.



Quote from: five points on April 27, 2020, 04:46:48 PM
How can you apply a 2km restriction on someone who doesn't live here?

Just state that someone can go 2Km from there house wherever it is or go to the shop just like people in the ROI. Partitionism at a time like this is sick.
Partitionism  ;D  what a dimwit.
The same restrictions that apply to all in the south should apply to all people who cross the border, who enter the country by plane or ship.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 27, 2020, 07:18:19 PM
The 2km is only for exercise, there might not be a shop within 2Km.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 07:27:32 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 27, 2020, 07:09:24 PM
I thought the 2km thing was only for exercise?
Stay at home, unless there is a reasonable excuse, and i suppose it stands  that a reasonable excuse  - an  esssential  retail excursion can be a varying distance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on April 27, 2020, 07:32:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2020, 06:03:08 PM
Chris Witty the UKs CMO doesn't come across as credible. Unable to answer basic questions. Was to slow to act and now presiding over a death total of 21k. One of highest in the world.

Whitty and Vallance do both look ruined. Either through incompetence or feebleness, they failed to impress the severity of the situation on those in power during those crucial weeks in February and March. Now they have to eat it and hope the public never catch on, just like the rest of the talking heads sent out everyday. The really weird thing is that they all seem to be pulling it off.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 27, 2020, 07:43:41 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 27, 2020, 07:29:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 07:27:32 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 27, 2020, 07:09:24 PM
I thought the 2km thing was only for exercise?
Stay at home, unless there is a reasonable excuse, and i suppose it stands  that a reasonable excuse  - an  esssential  retail excursion can be a varying distance.
Why, then, did you tell him he was allowed to go to his local shop if it was "within 2km of the border"? That's not correct.

If I've got it right, it's because I live in the North and I would be travelling into the South....infecting the border counties. Sorry lads.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 27, 2020, 07:59:31 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 27, 2020, 07:32:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 27, 2020, 06:03:08 PM
Chris Witty the UKs CMO doesn't come across as credible. Unable to answer basic questions. Was to slow to act and now presiding over a death total of 21k. One of highest in the world.

Whitty and Vallance do both look ruined. Either through incompetence or feebleness, they failed to impress the severity of the situation on those in power during those crucial weeks in February and March. Now they have to eat it and hope the public never catch on, just like the rest of the talking heads sent out everyday. The really weird thing is that they all seem to be pulling it off.

Whitty especially is a complete bluffer and promoted far beyond his ability. As seems to be the case with McBride in NI and the Scottish CMO who had to resign. She was originally from NI I believe. McBride wasn't able to advise to close schools in NI even though they were closing them in the ROI.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2020, 08:38:22 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 04:38:21 PM
Is it time step up the precautions and restrict border crossings? 7 of the 8 counties in the south with the highest ration of infections are border counties.  Isn't it  time for Nordies to respect the rules  just as regular Irish people are obliged to, put an end to the special dispensations for cross border Nordies and apply the 2km restriction, unless there's a bona fide reason to travel further. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907)

That would suit you in the long run

Fermanagh has the least amount I think, border county that it is hopefully it'll keep out those infected in the south
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2020, 09:23:30 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 04:38:21 PM
Is it time step up the precautions and restrict border crossings? 7 of the 8 counties in the south with the highest ration of infections are border counties.  Isn't it  time for Nordies to respect the rules  just as regular Irish people are obliged to, put an end to the special dispensations for cross border Nordies and apply the 2km restriction, unless there's a bona fide reason to travel further. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907)

Being very honest here, most travel at border here in Derry City is coming from Donegal. Plus Donegal has higher numbers. Coming in to work, shop and fly tip
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 27, 2020, 09:35:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2020, 09:23:30 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 04:38:21 PM
Is it time step up the precautions and restrict border crossings? 7 of the 8 counties in the south with the highest ration of infections are border counties.  Isn't it  time for Nordies to respect the rules  just as regular Irish people are obliged to, put an end to the special dispensations for cross border Nordies and apply the 2km restriction, unless there's a bona fide reason to travel further. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907)

Being very honest here, most travel at border here in Derry City is coming from Donegal. Plus Donegal has higher numbers. Coming in to work, shop and fly tip

That's a harsh post from a Derry man, earning your living in Donegal. I agree a huge amount of Donegal people shop in Derry, having a positive effect on the local economy. More donegal people working in Derry, than Derry people working in Donegal, I doubt it look at your plant alone. Fly tipping is a low blow. You must have being jilted by a young Donegal wan at some stage Sir.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 27, 2020, 09:44:09 PM
What is this shit with all the north south digs everywhere. No need for it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2020, 09:46:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 27, 2020, 09:44:09 PM
What is this shit with all the north south digs everywhere. No need for it.

Worst than the city v SW   ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on April 27, 2020, 09:47:36 PM
Dem free state basturts started it Tommy

I agree, no need...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2020, 09:56:02 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 27, 2020, 09:35:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2020, 09:23:30 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 04:38:21 PM
Is it time step up the precautions and restrict border crossings? 7 of the 8 counties in the south with the highest ration of infections are border counties.  Isn't it  time for Nordies to respect the rules  just as regular Irish people are obliged to, put an end to the special dispensations for cross border Nordies and apply the 2km restriction, unless there's a bona fide reason to travel further. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907)

Being very honest here, most travel at border here in Derry City is coming from Donegal. Plus Donegal has higher numbers. Coming in to work, shop and fly tip

That's a harsh post from a Derry man, earning your living in Donegal. I agree a huge amount of Donegal people shop in Derry, having a positive effect on the local economy. More donegal people working in Derry, than Derry people working in Donegal, I doubt it look at your plant alone. Fly tipping is a low blow. You must have being jilted by a young Donegal wan at some stage Sir.

Seriously tonnes of Donegal wans work in Derry and more power to them, thats my point, there seems to a lot of bad feeling agsinst northerners, but very little talk about traffic coming other way because most sensible people realise that everyone whilst in the town are abiding by the social distancing rules. Derry city has done well and has less recorded cases than Donegal.
Mucker of mines was shouted at in caroark in Aldi Buncrana because of his Derry reg last week even though he works in Buncrana, ridiculous really. Fair play to the others there who intervened.

Fly tipping unfortunately happens all the time. Ferguson doing well in totes of oil too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on April 27, 2020, 10:23:19 PM
Loads of southern reg cars driving around south Armagh. No one batting an eyelid or complaining here. Double standards.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2020, 10:25:23 PM
There was a guy a some others ones came up to Belfast Ardoyne during the lockdown, think they came up from Drogheda or Dundalk. Very dangerous times
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on April 27, 2020, 10:25:58 PM
Lockdown in my part of California extended for another month , this is not going to go down well and I think the shit will hit the fan in next week or two.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2020, 10:26:16 PM
Quote from: mackers on April 27, 2020, 10:23:19 PM
Loads of southern reg cars driving around south Armagh. No one batting an eyelid or complaining here. Double standards.

Yep, shouldn't be an issue,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 27, 2020, 10:42:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2020, 09:23:30 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 04:38:21 PM
Is it time step up the precautions and restrict border crossings? 7 of the 8 counties in the south with the highest ration of infections are border counties.  Isn't it  time for Nordies to respect the rules  just as regular Irish people are obliged to, put an end to the special dispensations for cross border Nordies and apply the 2km restriction, unless there's a bona fide reason to travel further. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907)

Being very honest here, most travel at border here in Derry City is coming from Donegal. Plus Donegal has higher numbers. Coming in to work, shop and fly tip

Very partitionist stuff going on here - as I said previously, there's some 'garden centre' nationalists about.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 27, 2020, 10:46:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2020, 10:25:23 PM
There was a guy a some others ones came up to Belfast Ardoyne during the lockdown, think they came up from Drogheda or Dundalk. Very dangerous times

Was that to do with that feud?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 27, 2020, 10:47:26 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2020, 09:56:02 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 27, 2020, 09:35:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2020, 09:23:30 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 04:38:21 PM
Is it time step up the precautions and restrict border crossings? 7 of the 8 counties in the south with the highest ration of infections are border counties.  Isn't it  time for Nordies to respect the rules  just as regular Irish people are obliged to, put an end to the special dispensations for cross border Nordies and apply the 2km restriction, unless there's a bona fide reason to travel further. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907)

Being very honest here, most travel at border here in Derry City is coming from Donegal. Plus Donegal has higher numbers. Coming in to work, shop and fly tip

That's a harsh post from a Derry man, earning your living in Donegal. I agree a huge amount of Donegal people shop in Derry, having a positive effect on the local economy. More donegal people working in Derry, than Derry people working in Donegal, I doubt it look at your plant alone. Fly tipping is a low blow. You must have being jilted by a young Donegal wan at some stage Sir.

Seriously tonnes of Donegal wans work in Derry and more power to them, thats my point, there seems to a lot of bad feeling agsinst northerners, but very little talk about traffic coming other way because most sensible people realise that everyone whilst in the town are abiding by the social distancing rules. Derry city has done well and has less recorded cases than Donegal.
Mucker of mines was shouted at in caroark in Aldi Buncrana because of his Derry reg last week even though he works in Buncrana, ridiculous really. Fair play to the others there who intervened.

Fly tipping unfortunately happens all the time. Ferguson doing well in totes of oil too.
100%
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2020, 10:51:12 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 27, 2020, 10:46:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2020, 10:25:23 PM
There was a guy a some others ones came up to Belfast Ardoyne during the lockdown, think they came up from Drogheda or Dundalk. Very dangerous times

Was that to do with that feud?


Seen a video of more looking to sort things out, not sure how real that is but I'd hope they keep it in the 26 ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 27, 2020, 10:51:49 PM
Quote from: mackers on April 27, 2020, 10:23:19 PM
Loads of southern reg cars driving around south Armagh. No one batting an eyelid or complaining here. Double standards.

North and south of border - it's the natural hinterland where you in Strabane/Lifford, Fermanagh/Cavan or Armagh/Monaghan.  Pwople cris cross these roads every day doing about their business: be it shopping or working etc.

This carry on of I saw more cars from X here I think...or don'tgo shopping in south even though it's the nearest town....just because some p***k put a  line through Ireland a good few years ago.

Some partitionists on this board.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 27, 2020, 10:52:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2020, 10:51:12 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 27, 2020, 10:46:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2020, 10:25:23 PM
There was a guy a some others ones came up to Belfast Ardoyne during the lockdown, think they came up from Drogheda or Dundalk. Very dangerous times

Was that to do with that feud?


Seen a video of more looking to sort things out, not sure how real that is but I'd hope they keep it in the 26 ;)

Lol.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2020, 10:53:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 27, 2020, 10:42:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 27, 2020, 09:23:30 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 04:38:21 PM
Is it time step up the precautions and restrict border crossings? 7 of the 8 counties in the south with the highest ration of infections are border counties.  Isn't it  time for Nordies to respect the rules  just as regular Irish people are obliged to, put an end to the special dispensations for cross border Nordies and apply the 2km restriction, unless there's a bona fide reason to travel further. 
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-cases-in-cavan-exceed-dublin-as-incidence-in-border-counties-rising-fast-1.4238907)

Being very honest here, most travel at border here in Derry City is coming from Donegal. Plus Donegal has higher numbers. Coming in to work, shop and fly tip

Very partitionist stuff going on here - as I said previously, there's some 'garden centre' nationalists about.

Don't be at it sur. No partitionism here. But there has been loads of people on Donegal calling for the gates to be closed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 27, 2020, 11:35:41 PM
Loads of 26 Cos folk on social media calling for the "boarders" ports and airports to be closed😁

Are there still boarding schools or what?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on April 27, 2020, 11:41:47 PM
This lockdown is going to effect people's natural immune system in the long term and cause more harm than good.

Need to get the young and healthy back out into a natural environment. People have a choice to look after themselves.

Nobody going to hospitals either for other issues due to covid fear.

Keeping the economy closed for a bug that effects 5% of the population is madness.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 27, 2020, 11:53:22 PM
And why is it only affecting 5% of the population?😉
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on April 28, 2020, 12:09:15 AM
Because 95% have mild or zero symptoms.

I agree it's deadly for a certain amount of people but shutting down the economy and keeping it shut for much longer isn't the solution.

What's your answer?

The unintended consequence of any further lockdown will be catastrophic next winter. Hospitals will be overcrowded.

No easy solution but closing down and keeping people locked up and away from a natural environment will make their natural immune system worse.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 12:10:37 AM
Quote from: highorlow on April 28, 2020, 12:09:15 AM
Because 95% have mild or zero symptoms.

Citation not found.

QuoteI agree it's deadly for a certain amount of people but shutting down the economy and keeping it shut for much longer isn't the solution.

Neither is unrestricted freedom of movement.


The govt have f**ked up by not having a suitable testing regime. Such a testing/tracing system would allow partial relaxation of measures and better targeting of social distancing policies rather than a blanket one-size-fits-all lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on April 28, 2020, 12:13:58 AM
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/17/coronavirus-causes-mild-disease-in-four-in-five-patients-says-who
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 12:15:00 AM
Quote from: highorlow on April 28, 2020, 12:13:58 AM
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/17/coronavirus-causes-mild-disease-in-four-in-five-patients-says-who

So you've bounced from 95% to 80% in <5 minutes?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on April 28, 2020, 12:17:08 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0414/1130498-sweden-approach-coronavirus/

Time to follow the Swedish approach.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on April 28, 2020, 12:20:18 AM
"So you've bounced from 95% to 80% in <5 minutes?"

No, up to 60% of cases are asymptomatic. The article is tested cases with symptoms. Your not needing a test if you have no symptoms.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on April 28, 2020, 12:40:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 27, 2020, 07:43:41 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 27, 2020, 07:29:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 07:27:32 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 27, 2020, 07:09:24 PM
I thought the 2km thing was only for exercise?
Stay at home, unless there is a reasonable excuse, and i suppose it stands  that a reasonable excuse  - an  esssential  retail excursion can be a varying distance.
Why, then, did you tell him he was allowed to go to his local shop if it was "within 2km of the border"? That's not correct.

If I've got it right, it's because I live in the North and I would be travelling into the South....infecting the border counties. Sorry lads.
Immature response.  One-sided arguments serve no rational purpose. In logic they are treated as fallacy and often referred to as card-stacking or cherry-picking. Typically, where such type of argumentation occurs, someone wants to hijack and control a message by conveniently and repeatedly overlooking or ignoring whatever that person cannot rebut. In other words, s/he comments on only what is deemed to be a weak
point, whether or not it is indeed weak or even central to the topic under discussion. By hammering on that perceived 'weak' point, s/he seeks to have everyone draw an overly large, unjustified conclusion.
Do you have a problem with following the regulations in the south should you cross the border or do you think you are entitled, due to a badly phrased legislation, of flouting those regulations without repercussions?
If you follow the regulations as they exist in the south then there is no issue, is there?
You cross the border because for you it is an essential act in order to do some essential shopping. And the same goes for anybody who enters  the Republic  from another jurisdiction,  they should respect the laws regardless of the absent scale of repercussion.

Or do you think that nordies are not subject to follow the regulations in the south, the very same that the locals have to follow?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 28, 2020, 01:07:55 AM
Quote from: highorlow on April 28, 2020, 12:17:08 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0414/1130498-sweden-approach-coronavirus/

Time to follow the Swedish approach.

Aren't you the chap that posted on this thread in February saying that the virus had reached its peak and would be over in a few days?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 28, 2020, 01:35:34 AM
New Zealand, an island with a comparable population to Ireland, 1k cases and 19 deaths.

Shameful whats happened here in comparison.

Their PM has done a masterful job and deserves massive respect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2020, 05:20:48 AM
Quote from: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 11:19:19 AM
QuoteI would like to believe that is the case and would hope it is.

However are all signs not showing that this is spreading ?

UK = 13 cases , 0 deaths, 8 recovered

This didn't age well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2020, 05:21:19 AM
Quote from: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 01:16:08 PM
QuoteItaly = 12 dead, 3 recovered.

Italy 453 cases, 12 dead, 40 recovered.

The last 3 to die in Italy were 83, 84 and 91. No death is easy but the way the m€dia are carrying on in relation to this is ridiculous. If these 3 people got another strain of flu would they have died also?

And this didn't age well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2020, 05:21:40 AM
Quote from: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 09:07:03 AM
QuoteBy the time they do decide to, that horse will have long since bolted and foaled


It's reached it's peak or will over the next few days. So no horse to bolt.

Hmm.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2020, 05:26:02 AM
Quote from: highorlow on January 30, 2020, 02:46:31 PM
Guaranteed Fake News I reckon...

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/doctor-tells-high-court-of-potential-coronavirus-case-in-dublin-hospital-978704.html

What do you reckon now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2020, 05:26:48 AM
Quote from: highorlow on February 18, 2020, 03:40:28 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2020/0218/1116054-coronavirus-factsheet/

Whole thing is overblown.

You were saying...?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2020, 05:28:14 AM
Quote from: highorlow on March 02, 2020, 02:51:30 PM
The snowflakeitius surrounding this virus appears to be more contagious than the virus itself.

I'll give it 2 more weeks and it will have passed like most flu like viruses.

"snowflakeitius"

I like that.

I think we can stop listening to your forecasts at this point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2020, 05:46:39 AM
Why do some people feel the need to become armchair experts on this virus and play down its seriousness in contradiction to what qualified medical professionals are saying? Do they just enjoy being contrary for contrariness' sake? Do they think it makes them sound clever? "I'll show them smart-assed PhDs a thing or two! I've got a PhD from the University of Life! I've got more common sense than the rest of them put together! I see their data and I raise them a non-representative but bloody convincing anecdote!"

Why do they do it? What do they hope to gain from it? I would really like to know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 28, 2020, 07:14:14 AM
 https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=2ahUKEwj7s4-Hu4rpAhXISsAKHdjEAE4QFjADegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fchannon_mark%2Fstatus%2F1254011988482633728&usg=AOvVaw1BtdcgN_y164WZ-d7wuTJh (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=2ahUKEwj7s4-Hu4rpAhXISsAKHdjEAE4QFjADegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fchannon_mark%2Fstatus%2F1254011988482633728&usg=AOvVaw1BtdcgN_y164WZ-d7wuTJh)

Very sad. Sorry for the long link...

Surely that response is no more immature than the original post  reading back on all this partitionist nonsense ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 28, 2020, 08:50:01 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 28, 2020, 07:14:14 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=2ahUKEwj7s4-Hu4rpAhXISsAKHdjEAE4QFjADegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fchannon_mark%2Fstatus%2F1254011988482633728&usg=AOvVaw1BtdcgN_y164WZ-d7wuTJh (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=2ahUKEwj7s4-Hu4rpAhXISsAKHdjEAE4QFjADegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fchannon_mark%2Fstatus%2F1254011988482633728&usg=AOvVaw1BtdcgN_y164WZ-d7wuTJh)

Very sad. Sorry for the long link...

Surely that response is no more immature than the original post  reading back on all this partitionist nonsense ::)

Heartbreaking
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on April 28, 2020, 09:30:17 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 28, 2020, 07:14:14 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=2ahUKEwj7s4-Hu4rpAhXISsAKHdjEAE4QFjADegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fchannon_mark%2Fstatus%2F1254011988482633728&usg=AOvVaw1BtdcgN_y164WZ-d7wuTJh (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=2ahUKEwj7s4-Hu4rpAhXISsAKHdjEAE4QFjADegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fchannon_mark%2Fstatus%2F1254011988482633728&usg=AOvVaw1BtdcgN_y164WZ-d7wuTJh)

Very sad. Sorry for the long link...

Surely that response is no more immature than the original post  reading back on all this partitionist nonsense ::)
Yes indeed, it is partitionist nonsense to expect cross border excursions into the south to observe the regulations that the locals have to obey, and in areas where curiously the infection rate has risen to the highest in Ireland  ::)


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 28, 2020, 09:46:36 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 28, 2020, 09:30:17 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 28, 2020, 07:14:14 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=2ahUKEwj7s4-Hu4rpAhXISsAKHdjEAE4QFjADegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fchannon_mark%2Fstatus%2F1254011988482633728&usg=AOvVaw1BtdcgN_y164WZ-d7wuTJh (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=2ahUKEwj7s4-Hu4rpAhXISsAKHdjEAE4QFjADegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fchannon_mark%2Fstatus%2F1254011988482633728&usg=AOvVaw1BtdcgN_y164WZ-d7wuTJh)

Very sad. Sorry for the long link...

Surely that response is no more immature than the original post  reading back on all this partitionist nonsense ::)
Yes indeed, it is partitionist nonsense to expect cross border excursions into the south to observe the regulations that the locals have to obey, and in areas where curiously the infection rate has risen to the highest in Ireland  ::)

They're not even the rules - they're the exercise rules.  Just more blah blah blah nordie nordie nordie blah blah blah by you again. Maybe it would be better to try and understand why the border counties might be like that rather than just to try and apportion blame?

Any chance of talking about the topic at hand?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 28, 2020, 10:07:33 AM
Quote from: Main Street on April 28, 2020, 12:40:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 27, 2020, 07:43:41 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 27, 2020, 07:29:44 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 27, 2020, 07:27:32 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 27, 2020, 07:09:24 PM
I thought the 2km thing was only for exercise?
Stay at home, unless there is a reasonable excuse, and i suppose it stands  that a reasonable excuse  - an  esssential  retail excursion can be a varying distance.
Why, then, did you tell him he was allowed to go to his local shop if it was "within 2km of the border"? That's not correct.

If I've got it right, it's because I live in the North and I would be travelling into the South....infecting the border counties. Sorry lads.
Immature response.  One-sided arguments serve no rational purpose. In logic they are treated as fallacy and often referred to as card-stacking or cherry-picking. Typically, where such type of argumentation occurs, someone wants to hijack and control a message by conveniently and repeatedly overlooking or ignoring whatever that person cannot rebut. In other words, s/he comments on only what is deemed to be a weak
point, whether or not it is indeed weak or even central to the topic under discussion. By hammering on that perceived 'weak' point, s/he seeks to have everyone draw an overly large, unjustified conclusion.
Do you have a problem with following the regulations in the south should you cross the border or do you think you are entitled, due to a badly phrased legislation, of flouting those regulations without repercussions?
If you follow the regulations as they exist in the south then there is no issue, is there?
You cross the border because for you it is an essential act in order to do some essential shopping. And the same goes for anybody who enters  the Republic  from another jurisdiction,  they should respect the laws regardless of the absent scale of repercussion.

Or do you think that nordies are not subject to follow the regulations in the south, the very same that the locals have to follow?

You started off there using as many big words as I'm sure you could google, it looked well. If not contrived.

Let yourself down hugely with the last little dig in bold. Really not much need, especially when I am Monaghan born and bred....I just happen to live over the border now (and even that was a very recent move). Am I a "Nordie"?. I work in the South, pay taxes in the South. Infact, I am....shock horror, just the same as you....

Embarrassing.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 28, 2020, 10:13:23 AM
A few points.

1) The lockdown isn't as effective as it should be because a significant amount of people cannot be locked down. Key workers (who are usually the lowest paid) It should be called the "rich work from home."

2) Again the effectiveness is compromised as there is little or no contact testing. Testing itself is minimal. The authorities are unable to say with conviction what the spread of the virus looks like. Testing is key. It's not being done. Therefore the lockdown is probably only about 50% effective to what it should be.

3) There is no quarantining of people arriving into the UK or Ireland. So a second, third, fourth wave is inevitable. Is a 6. 9 or 12 month lockdown viable?

4) People have lost confidence in what appears to be a hugely incompetent response from CMOs, Scientists and Gov.

5) Was on the roads this morning - they are definitely busier. The game is up unless governments publish an exit plan.

6) If anything comes out of this, maybe people will start to question so called "Experts" and by extension Ministers who are hiding behind bullshit lines like "we will be guided by science" It's a f**king copout that translates as "I have no idea what I am doing and I am in a job role far beyond my ability"

7) A vaccine is the solution. Until then we have to live with it. So sensible measures, social distancing, protect the vulnerable. It's the only way forward as our Local and National governments are unable to help.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 28, 2020, 10:29:07 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 10:13:23 AM
2) Again the effectiveness is compromised as there is little or no contact testing. Testing itself is minimal. The authorities are unable to say with conviction what the spread of the virus looks like. Testing is key. It's not being done. Therefore the lockdown is probably only about 50% effective to what it should be

testing rates in the 26 counties are respectable and open to people with symptoms from today. Testing is the way forward, as vaccines and even therapies take time
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 28, 2020, 10:39:51 AM
A disiciplined approach to herd immunity, something like what the Swedes are doing seems the best approach to me. We have many advantages, we are an Island, not densely populated & a part from a small ethnic minority we are a reasonably disiciplined / compliant society.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 28, 2020, 10:51:12 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2020, 05:46:39 AM
Why do some people feel the need to become armchair experts on this virus and play down its seriousness in contradiction to what qualified medical professionals are saying? Do they just enjoy being contrary for contrariness' sake? Do they think it makes them sound clever? "I'll show them smart-assed PhDs a thing or two! I've got a PhD from the University of Life! I've got more common sense than the rest of them put together! I see their data and I raise them a non-representative but bloody convincing anecdote!"

Why do they do it? What do they hope to gain from it? I would really like to know.

This is the fooking Gaaboard not a scientific journal, do you read any newpapers, they are all full of crap much worse than what is wrote here. People have opinions much like yourself, they are allowed to post un-moderated here. I mean lads calling other lads c***ts on a daily basis here, without the use of text to back up their arguements.
Considerable number of people who end up in top positions in this country are bluffers / c**k suckers. The best don't make it to the top, for a country who went into partial/ full lockdown early on, we are not performing well. The care/ nursing homes were handled poorly as I said from very early days, amount of people in Chel - ham, airports were a mess, PPE could have being made here, instead of getting chit from China. Again I'M no expert just a lad ranting/ spouting chit on gaaboard.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 28, 2020, 11:13:41 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 28, 2020, 10:39:51 AM
A disiciplined approach to herd immunity, something like what the Swedes are doing seems the best approach to me. We have many advantages, we are an Island, not densely populated & a part from a small ethnic minority we are a reasonably disiciplined / compliant society.

Sweden are reporting over 2K deaths for a population of 10 million.

There's still no proof that having the virus and recovering even if asymptomatic offers immunity from the virus at a later date and even for how long if it does.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 28, 2020, 11:19:04 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 28, 2020, 01:35:34 AM
New Zealand, an island with a comparable population to Ireland, 1k cases and 19 deaths.

Shameful whats happened here in comparison.

Their PM has done a masterful job and deserves massive respect.
NZ is 2 islands and their area is around the size of Great Britain with 5 million population well scattered.
It's also 1,500 miles from anywhere and hasn't got 500 million people on its doorstep with loads of travel between them.

That said they've done brilliant but it was easier for them in their unique circumstances.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 28, 2020, 11:22:18 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 28, 2020, 11:13:41 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 28, 2020, 10:39:51 AM
A disiciplined approach to herd immunity, something like what the Swedes are doing seems the best approach to me. We have many advantages, we are an Island, not densely populated & a part from a small ethnic minority we are a reasonably disiciplined / compliant society.

Sweden are reporting over 2K deaths for a population of 10 million.

There's still no proof that having the virus and recovering even if asymptomatic offers immunity from the virus at a later date and even for how long if it does.

Yeah that's a problem ie confirmed immunity. Figures are not bad in terms of death rate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mouview on April 28, 2020, 11:25:36 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 10:13:23 AM
A few points.

1) The lockdown isn't as effective as it should be because a significant amount of people cannot be locked down. Key workers (who are usually the lowest paid) It should be called the "rich work from home."

2) Again the effectiveness is compromised as there is little or no contact testing. Testing itself is minimal. The authorities are unable to say with conviction what the spread of the virus looks like. Testing is key. It's not being done. Therefore the lockdown is probably only about 50% effective to what it should be.

3) There is no quarantining of people arriving into the UK or Ireland. So a second, third, fourth wave is inevitable. Is a 6. 9 or 12 month lockdown viable?

4) People have lost confidence in what appears to be a hugely incompetent response from CMOs, Scientists and Gov.

5) Was on the roads this morning - they are definitely busier. The game is up unless governments publish an exit plan.

6) If anything comes out of this, maybe people will start to question so called "Experts" and by extension Ministers who are hiding behind bullshit lines like "we will be guided by science" It's a f**king copout that translates as "I have no idea what I am doing and I am in a job role far beyond my ability"

7) A vaccine is the solution. Until then we have to live with it. So sensible measures, social distancing, protect the vulnerable. It's the only way forward as our Local and National governments are unable to help.

With respect, the gist of this is a bit silly. Do you advocate people ignore Govt. and scientific advice and make up their own rules about how best to approach this? Would you go to the doctor with an ailment and then decide to ignore his diagnosis if you didn't like it? Politicians in the main are people of very disparate backgrounds and qualifications; when there's a specific or serious issue, and it's hard to think of a more extreme example of this than now, then it's absolutely correct that they take on board the most informed professional guidance available. Point 4 above is very generic and misguided - I don't hear any sustained or national outcry against the current measures being implemented.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 28, 2020, 11:27:23 AM
Next time I need surgery will I get it done by a surgeon/consultant who might be a "bluffer/c**k sucker" or will I get it done by Rudi or some other GAAboard poster?
Hmmmmm.........🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 28, 2020, 11:40:58 AM
Quote from: mouview on April 28, 2020, 11:25:36 AM

With respect, the gist of this is a bit silly. Do you advocate people ignore Govt. and scientific advice and make up their own rules about how best to approach this? Would you go to the doctor with an ailment and then decide to ignore his diagnosis if you didn't like it? Politicians in the main are people of very disparate backgrounds and qualifications; when there's a specific or serious issue, and it's hard to think of a more extreme example of this than now, then it's absolutely correct that they take on board the most informed professional guidance available. Point 4 above is very generic and misguided - I don't hear any sustained or national outcry against the current measures being implemented.

The analogy with diagnoses from GPs is an odd one. It's very common for people to get second opinions after visiting their GPs and many people who are alive and healthy today would not be if they had blindly accepted GP advice.

20 or 30 years ago it was generally true that politicians were people of very disparate backgrounds and qualifications, but this is not the case today. Simon Harris' only work experience is as either a politician or working for one. His only qualifications apart from Junior and Leaving Cert. And he's not some sort of oddity. Many of today's politicians have never worked in the real world.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 28, 2020, 11:49:29 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 28, 2020, 11:19:04 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 28, 2020, 01:35:34 AM
New Zealand, an island with a comparable population to Ireland, 1k cases and 19 deaths.

Shameful whats happened here in comparison.

Their PM has done a masterful job and deserves massive respect.
NZ is 2 islands and their area is around the size of Great Britain with 5 million population well scattered.
It's also 1,500 miles from anywhere and hasn't got 500 million people on its doorstep with loads of travel between them.

That said they've done brilliant but it was easier for them in their unique circumstances.

Why is it easy for them and not Ireland, as an island?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 28, 2020, 11:50:02 AM
Dr O'Doherty (no threat to life, get immunity) and her goons out again today.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/gardai-with-batons-prevent-gemma-odoherty-and-john-waters-supporters-from-accessing-high-court-996468.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 28, 2020, 11:51:08 AM
Quote from: marty34 on April 28, 2020, 11:49:29 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 28, 2020, 11:19:04 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 28, 2020, 01:35:34 AM
New Zealand, an island with a comparable population to Ireland, 1k cases and 19 deaths.

Shameful whats happened here in comparison.

Their PM has done a masterful job and deserves massive respect.
NZ is 2 islands and their area is around the size of Great Britain with 5 million population well scattered.
It's also 1,500 miles from anywhere and hasn't got 500 million people on its doorstep with loads of travel between them.

That said they've done brilliant but it was easier for them in their unique circumstances.

Why is it easy for them and not Ireland, as an island?

You could hop in a 20 minute flight from Liverpool and be in Dublin.

Takes around 3 - 6 hours to get to New Zealand depending on where you are in Australia.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 28, 2020, 11:52:14 AM
Quote from: marty34 on April 28, 2020, 11:49:29 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 28, 2020, 11:19:04 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 28, 2020, 01:35:34 AM
New Zealand, an island with a comparable population to Ireland, 1k cases and 19 deaths.

Shameful whats happened here in comparison.

Their PM has done a masterful job and deserves massive respect.
NZ is 2 islands and their area is around the size of Great Britain with 5 million population well scattered.
It's also 1,500 miles from anywhere and hasn't got 500 million people on its doorstep with loads of travel between them.

That said they've done brilliant but it was easier for them in their unique circumstances.

Why is it easy for them and not Ireland, as an island?
Read above.
Also 2 jurisdictions in this island one of which was going to try the herd immunity route.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mouview on April 28, 2020, 11:55:41 AM
Quote from: five points on April 28, 2020, 11:40:58 AM
Quote from: mouview on April 28, 2020, 11:25:36 AM

With respect, the gist of this is a bit silly. Do you advocate people ignore Govt. and scientific advice and make up their own rules about how best to approach this? Would you go to the doctor with an ailment and then decide to ignore his diagnosis if you didn't like it? Politicians in the main are people of very disparate backgrounds and qualifications; when there's a specific or serious issue, and it's hard to think of a more extreme example of this than now, then it's absolutely correct that they take on board the most informed professional guidance available. Point 4 above is very generic and misguided - I don't hear any sustained or national outcry against the current measures being implemented.

The analogy with diagnoses from GPs is an odd one. It's very common for people to get second opinions after visiting their GPs and many people who are alive and healthy today would not be if they had blindly accepted GP advice.

20 or 30 years ago it was generally true that politicians were people of very disparate backgrounds and qualifications, but this is not the case today. Simon Harris' only work experience is as either a politician or working for one. His only qualifications apart from Junior and Leaving Cert. And he's not some sort of oddity. Many of today's politicians have never worked in the real world.

Quite common to get a second opinion maybe, but from a second doctor surely, not from somebody of a non-medical background.

Re: bolded bit, I would say the reverse is true. Many of today's politicians were something else before becoming TDs. E.g. Varadkar was a doctor, Covenery worked in agriculture. Of Galway TDs, Sean Canny was an engineer and later a lecturer, Ann Rabbitte worked in a bank, Ciaran Cannon worked for a trust organisation, Eamon O'Cuiv ran a co-op, Hildegarde Naughton was a teacher, Sean Kyne worked for Teagasc etc. Maybe ideologically-driven SF TDs were always full-time political reps, I'm not sure, I've no interest in them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 11:58:03 AM
Yea, its a good point on politicians and one I've made elsewhere.

There probably should be a law that no-one without at least 10 years post-education experience outside politics can be elected.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 28, 2020, 12:01:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 28, 2020, 11:50:02 AM
Dr O'Doherty (no threat to life, get immunity) and her goons out again today.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/gardai-with-batons-prevent-gemma-odoherty-and-john-waters-supporters-from-accessing-high-court-996468.html

Where did John Waters go wrong ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 28, 2020, 12:02:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 11:58:03 AM
Yea, its a good point on politicians and one I've made elsewhere.

There probably should be a law that no-one without at least 10 years post-education experience outside politics can be elected.

Where do you stop with rules like that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 28, 2020, 12:04:51 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 28, 2020, 11:13:41 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 28, 2020, 10:39:51 AM
A disiciplined approach to herd immunity, something like what the Swedes are doing seems the best approach to me. We have many advantages, we are an Island, not densely populated & a part from a small ethnic minority we are a reasonably disiciplined / compliant society.

Sweden are reporting over 2K deaths for a population of 10 million.

There's still no proof that having the virus and recovering even if asymptomatic offers immunity from the virus at a later date and even for how long if it does.

Sweden, like the UK, is being conservative in reporting deaths. Measures of mortality vs the seasonal average show a significant effect there, although it not as bad as the UK.


(https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fd6c748xw2pzm8.cloudfront.net%2Fprod%2F220a6880-87d6-11ea-9aed-7946c0f1c525-fullwidth.png?fit=scale-down&quality=highest&source=next&width=800)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 28, 2020, 12:06:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 28, 2020, 11:27:23 AM
Next time I need surgery will I get it done by a surgeon/consultant who might be a "bluffer/c**k sucker" or will I get it done by Rudi or some other GAAboard poster?
Hmmmmm.........🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

Never offered my services as a surgeon/ medical consultant its not my area. To be clear never had a go at surgeons/ medical consultants. Merely said some people who make it to the top of their respective fields are not always the best or most suitable for those positions, lots of politics involved.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 28, 2020, 12:08:06 PM
Quote from: mouview on April 28, 2020, 11:55:41 AM
Re: bolded bit, I would say the reverse is true. Many of today's politicians were something else before becoming TDs. E.g. Varadkar was a doctor, Covenery worked in agriculture. Of Galway TDs, Sean Canny was an engineer and later a lecturer, Ann Rabbitte worked in a bank, Ciaran Cannon worked for a trust organisation, Eamon O'Cuiv ran a co-op, Hildegarde Naughton was a teacher, Sean Kyne worked for Teagasc etc. Maybe ideologically-driven SF TDs were always full-time political reps, I'm not sure, I've no interest in them.

Some of the SF lot were involved the arms import business, others in demolition.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 12:13:55 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 28, 2020, 12:02:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 11:58:03 AM
Yea, its a good point on politicians and one I've made elsewhere.

There probably should be a law that no-one without at least 10 years post-education experience outside politics can be elected.

Where do you stop with rules like that?

Sorry, but why should someone who barely knows how to tie their laces be elected into public office because "I vote for party XXX and not the candidate"?

You want incompetent governance instead of capable people? Compare Boris Johnson to Angela Merkel. One is an ex Eton bullshitter the other a doctor of chemistry. How's Germany & the UK fairing against COVID? You really think there is no coincidence one government is on top of understanding both the available science and the gaps in knowledge and the other is clearly at sea with it all?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 28, 2020, 12:14:31 PM
Quote from: mouview on April 28, 2020, 11:25:36 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 10:13:23 AM
A few points.

1) The lockdown isn't as effective as it should be because a significant amount of people cannot be locked down. Key workers (who are usually the lowest paid) It should be called the "rich work from home."

2) Again the effectiveness is compromised as there is little or no contact testing. Testing itself is minimal. The authorities are unable to say with conviction what the spread of the virus looks like. Testing is key. It's not being done. Therefore the lockdown is probably only about 50% effective to what it should be.

3) There is no quarantining of people arriving into the UK or Ireland. So a second, third, fourth wave is inevitable. Is a 6. 9 or 12 month lockdown viable?

4) People have lost confidence in what appears to be a hugely incompetent response from CMOs, Scientists and Gov.

5) Was on the roads this morning - they are definitely busier. The game is up unless governments publish an exit plan.

6) If anything comes out of this, maybe people will start to question so called "Experts" and by extension Ministers who are hiding behind bullshit lines like "we will be guided by science" It's a f**king copout that translates as "I have no idea what I am doing and I am in a job role far beyond my ability"

7) A vaccine is the solution. Until then we have to live with it. So sensible measures, social distancing, protect the vulnerable. It's the only way forward as our Local and National governments are unable to help.

With respect, the gist of this is a bit silly. Do you advocate people ignore Govt. and scientific advice and make up their own rules about how best to approach this? Would you go to the doctor with an ailment and then decide to ignore his diagnosis if you didn't like it? Politicians in the main are people of very disparate backgrounds and qualifications; when there's a specific or serious issue, and it's hard to think of a more extreme example of this than now, then it's absolutely correct that they take on board the most informed professional guidance available. Point 4 above is very generic and misguided - I don't hear any sustained or national outcry against the current measures being implemented.

Yes of course you're are correct. When has the British government ever lied before?

Be very very careful about trusting these chancers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 28, 2020, 12:25:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 12:14:31 PM
Quote from: mouview on April 28, 2020, 11:25:36 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 10:13:23 AM
A few points.

1) The lockdown isn't as effective as it should be because a significant amount of people cannot be locked down. Key workers (who are usually the lowest paid) It should be called the "rich work from home."

2) Again the effectiveness is compromised as there is little or no contact testing. Testing itself is minimal. The authorities are unable to say with conviction what the spread of the virus looks like. Testing is key. It's not being done. Therefore the lockdown is probably only about 50% effective to what it should be.

3) There is no quarantining of people arriving into the UK or Ireland. So a second, third, fourth wave is inevitable. Is a 6. 9 or 12 month lockdown viable?

4) People have lost confidence in what appears to be a hugely incompetent response from CMOs, Scientists and Gov.

5) Was on the roads this morning - they are definitely busier. The game is up unless governments publish an exit plan.

6) If anything comes out of this, maybe people will start to question so called "Experts" and by extension Ministers who are hiding behind bullshit lines like "we will be guided by science" It's a f**king copout that translates as "I have no idea what I am doing and I am in a job role far beyond my ability"

7) A vaccine is the solution. Until then we have to live with it. So sensible measures, social distancing, protect the vulnerable. It's the only way forward as our Local and National governments are unable to help.

With respect, the gist of this is a bit silly. Do you advocate people ignore Govt. and scientific advice and make up their own rules about how best to approach this? Would you go to the doctor with an ailment and then decide to ignore his diagnosis if you didn't like it? Politicians in the main are people of very disparate backgrounds and qualifications; when there's a specific or serious issue, and it's hard to think of a more extreme example of this than now, then it's absolutely correct that they take on board the most informed professional guidance available. Point 4 above is very generic and misguided - I don't hear any sustained or national outcry against the current measures being implemented.

Yes of course you're are correct. When has the British government ever lied before?

Be very very careful about trusting these chancers.


FFS they can't even count PPE honestly...

All spin.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on April 28, 2020, 12:26:17 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 28, 2020, 10:39:51 AM
A disiciplined approach to herd immunity, something like what the Swedes are doing seems the best approach to me. We have many advantages, we are an Island, not densely populated & a part from a small ethnic minority we are a reasonably disiciplined / compliant society.

Are the Swedish including all deaths like Ireland whom are even counting probable deaths now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mouview on April 28, 2020, 12:28:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 12:14:31 PM
Quote from: mouview on April 28, 2020, 11:25:36 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 10:13:23 AM
A few points.

1) The lockdown isn't as effective as it should be because a significant amount of people cannot be locked down. Key workers (who are usually the lowest paid) It should be called the "rich work from home."

2) Again the effectiveness is compromised as there is little or no contact testing. Testing itself is minimal. The authorities are unable to say with conviction what the spread of the virus looks like. Testing is key. It's not being done. Therefore the lockdown is probably only about 50% effective to what it should be.

3) There is no quarantining of people arriving into the UK or Ireland. So a second, third, fourth wave is inevitable. Is a 6. 9 or 12 month lockdown viable?

4) People have lost confidence in what appears to be a hugely incompetent response from CMOs, Scientists and Gov.

5) Was on the roads this morning - they are definitely busier. The game is up unless governments publish an exit plan.

6) If anything comes out of this, maybe people will start to question so called "Experts" and by extension Ministers who are hiding behind bullshit lines like "we will be guided by science" It's a f**king copout that translates as "I have no idea what I am doing and I am in a job role far beyond my ability"

7) A vaccine is the solution. Until then we have to live with it. So sensible measures, social distancing, protect the vulnerable. It's the only way forward as our Local and National governments are unable to help.

With respect, the gist of this is a bit silly. Do you advocate people ignore Govt. and scientific advice and make up their own rules about how best to approach this? Would you go to the doctor with an ailment and then decide to ignore his diagnosis if you didn't like it? Politicians in the main are people of very disparate backgrounds and qualifications; when there's a specific or serious issue, and it's hard to think of a more extreme example of this than now, then it's absolutely correct that they take on board the most informed professional guidance available. Point 4 above is very generic and misguided - I don't hear any sustained or national outcry against the current measures being implemented.

Yes of course you're are correct. When has the British government ever lied before?

Be very very careful about trusting these chancers.

British govt. of course, I agree. In my naivete, I trust the Irish govt. to generally do what's best, or at least what's sensible, in this crisis.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on April 28, 2020, 12:31:25 PM
Hey, I got it wrong, so did lots of people. Glad people who called it right are getting satisfaction by going back over old posts and re posting them. It's a sign of the times if that's how you get your kicks.

When all the facts are churned out on this we will know the rights and wrongs.

I disagree now, and only now, that perfectly healthy people should still remain locked away after next week. We need some sort of income to pay for this. But hey, some knowitalls on here that called it right are the only ones now entitled to and opinion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 28, 2020, 12:32:34 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 28, 2020, 12:26:17 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 28, 2020, 10:39:51 AM
A disiciplined approach to herd immunity, something like what the Swedes are doing seems the best approach to me. We have many advantages, we are an Island, not densely populated & a part from a small ethnic minority we are a reasonably disiciplined / compliant society.

Are the Swedish including all deaths like Ireland whom are even counting probable deaths now.

Figures are in accordance with worldometers, some reporters suggest Swedish officals are conservative in their reporting of figures. In truth I don't know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 28, 2020, 12:34:20 PM
Quote from: mouview on April 28, 2020, 12:28:12 PM
British govt. of course, I agree. In my naivete, I trust the Irish govt. to generally do what's best, or at least what's sensible, in this crisis.

Their record is poor too. They actually fell in January as the Dáil couldn't vote confidence in Harris. As for the officials, Tony Holohan just about about survived the cervical check disaster.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 28, 2020, 12:51:46 PM
Ireland cancelled St Patrick's Day and the UK had Cheltenham. The UK has been playing catch-up since.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 28, 2020, 01:34:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2020, 12:51:46 PM
Ireland cancelled St Patrick's Day and the UK had Cheltenham. The UK has been playing catch-up since.

Very reluctantly.

This is from 3 March.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-no-plan-to-cancel-st-patrick-s-day-parades-at-this-stage-1.4191452
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on April 28, 2020, 01:40:24 PM
Quote from: five points on April 28, 2020, 01:34:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2020, 12:51:46 PM
Ireland cancelled St Patrick's Day and the UK had Cheltenham. The UK has been playing catch-up since.

Very reluctantly.

This is from 3 March.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-no-plan-to-cancel-st-patrick-s-day-parades-at-this-stage-1.4191452

ffs, it was cancelled, that's all that matters. Some dramatic hoors on here
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 01:43:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2020, 12:51:46 PM
Ireland cancelled St Patrick's Day and the UK had Cheltenham. The UK has been playing catch-up since.

Cancelled st Patrick's day but allowed the Italian fans to fly in allowed the Irish racing fans to fly out to Cheltenham
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 28, 2020, 02:00:59 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 28, 2020, 12:32:34 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 28, 2020, 12:26:17 PM
Quote from: Rudi on April 28, 2020, 10:39:51 AM
A disiciplined approach to herd immunity, something like what the Swedes are doing seems the best approach to me. We have many advantages, we are an Island, not densely populated & a part from a small ethnic minority we are a reasonably disiciplined / compliant society.

Are the Swedish including all deaths like Ireland whom are even counting probable deaths now.

Figures are in accordance with worldometers, some reporters suggest Swedish officals are conservative in their reporting of figures. In truth I don't know.


Worldometers is not entirely reliable in adjusting the fatality for the extent of the count in each place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 28, 2020, 02:05:48 PM
To me one overriding thing throughout this is that the Irish government actually appear to give a f**k about peoples lives whereas the UK government, and this is not a shock with how the tories are, do not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 28, 2020, 02:10:05 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 28, 2020, 02:05:48 PM
To me one overriding thing throughout this is that the Irish government actually appear to give a f**k about peoples lives whereas the UK government, and this is not a shock with how the tories are, do not.

Two words: cervical check.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 28, 2020, 02:24:19 PM
Well then maybe it's all relative.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 28, 2020, 03:01:23 PM
People look at politicians or scientists or advisors like they know more than you. Or successful people. They know the secret. They know more than me. Spoiler alert, they don't. Many are promoted far beyond their abilities and spend their days trying not be found out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 28, 2020, 03:06:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 03:01:23 PM
People look at politicians or scientists or advisors like they know more than you. Or successful people. They know the secret. They know more than me. Spoiler alert, they don't. Many are promoted far beyond their abilities and spend their days trying not be found out.
The thing is, when it comes to science, scientists know more then you. When it comes to medicine and healthcare, doctors know more than you. This isn't opinion, it's fact.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on April 28, 2020, 03:10:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 12:14:31 PM
Quote from: mouview on April 28, 2020, 11:25:36 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 10:13:23 AM
A few points.

1) The lockdown isn't as effective as it should be because a significant amount of people cannot be locked down. Key workers (who are usually the lowest paid) It should be called the "rich work from home."

2) Again the effectiveness is compromised as there is little or no contact testing. Testing itself is minimal. The authorities are unable to say with conviction what the spread of the virus looks like. Testing is key. It's not being done. Therefore the lockdown is probably only about 50% effective to what it should be.

3) There is no quarantining of people arriving into the UK or Ireland. So a second, third, fourth wave is inevitable. Is a 6. 9 or 12 month lockdown viable?

4) People have lost confidence in what appears to be a hugely incompetent response from CMOs, Scientists and Gov.

5) Was on the roads this morning - they are definitely busier. The game is up unless governments publish an exit plan.

6) If anything comes out of this, maybe people will start to question so called "Experts" and by extension Ministers who are hiding behind bullshit lines like "we will be guided by science" It's a f**king copout that translates as "I have no idea what I am doing and I am in a job role far beyond my ability"

7) A vaccine is the solution. Until then we have to live with it. So sensible measures, social distancing, protect the vulnerable. It's the only way forward as our Local and National governments are unable to help.

With respect, the gist of this is a bit silly. Do you advocate people ignore Govt. and scientific advice and make up their own rules about how best to approach this? Would you go to the doctor with an ailment and then decide to ignore his diagnosis if you didn't like it? Politicians in the main are people of very disparate backgrounds and qualifications; when there's a specific or serious issue, and it's hard to think of a more extreme example of this than now, then it's absolutely correct that they take on board the most informed professional guidance available. Point 4 above is very generic and misguided - I don't hear any sustained or national outcry against the current measures being implemented.

Yes of course you're are correct. When has the British government ever lied before?

Be very very careful about trusting these chancers.

I said it before, posts like this are a complete scourge.  The same poster previously talked about "CMO fraudsters". I would love to know your public health credentials that allow you to talk so authoritatively and stridently about this.
"The game is up" - What game? The measures are there to protect you and your family, you make it sound like the measures were taken with ulterior motives. You are presenting this as if someone has something to gain from these arrangements. 
"The authorities are unable to say with conviction" - I'm amazed at how much you are prepared to say with conviction!
"Start to question so-called experts" - Perhaps you would be better listening to someone who will advise you do drink bleach
"A vaccine is the solution" - Let's hope so, but maybe you should read these articles first: 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51665497
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52446965


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 28, 2020, 03:17:52 PM
The uk government has made a complete balls up of this
A complete ballsup
Cheltenham
Liverpool v Madrid
Schools
No testing at airports people walking freely as they land all around the uk
Not getting a hold of nurseling homes first(this should have been done first)

Johnstone and his government need to be accountable for all these actions
And see them scientists tell them to go and f**k

Scotland now saying wear masks after being told they are no good
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 28, 2020, 03:24:05 PM
Trailer you should start a thread - trailer's advice page. Nothing would be off limits ;D

The balls up with regard to airports being open - have a look at dublin airport's reply to Jim Allister on twitter. The airports being open is across the board and is WHO. It would be the same most places and not specific to Uk. The old peoples homes is across the board in various countries too. The difference is not allowing them into hospitals and quite frankly not giving a f**k about them. Also the worst thing the UK govt is doing is spinning shit about PPE for NHS staff.

QuoteJohnstone and his government need to be accountable for all these actions

I would agree with this bit.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aughafad on April 28, 2020, 03:28:05 PM
Don't argue with idiots! they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2020, 03:32:35 PM
Quote from: highorlow on April 28, 2020, 12:31:25 PM
Hey, I got it wrong, so did lots of people. Glad people who called it right are getting satisfaction by going back over old posts and re posting them. It's a sign of the times if that's how you get your kicks.

When all the facts are churned out on this we will know the rights and wrongs.

I disagree now, and only now, that perfectly healthy people should still remain locked away after next week. We need some sort of income to pay for this. But hey, some knowitalls on here that called it right are the only ones now entitled to and opinion.

Nostradamus has spoken.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 03:39:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 03:01:23 PM
People look at politicians or scientists or advisors like they know more than you. Or successful people. They know the secret. They know more than me. Spoiler alert, they don't. Many are promoted far beyond their abilities and spend their days trying not be found out.

Karen from Facebook knows more
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 28, 2020, 03:41:37 PM
Where or when does Dr Trailer do his triple by passes?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 28, 2020, 03:49:28 PM
The trust people here are putting the British Government is unbelievable. Chris Whitty the UKs CMO has prseided over one of the worst death totals anywhere in the world! But we should follow like a lemming! Catch a grip.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 28, 2020, 03:55:03 PM
Quote from: APM on April 28, 2020, 03:10:57 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 12:14:31 PM
Quote from: mouview on April 28, 2020, 11:25:36 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 10:13:23 AM
A few points.

1) The lockdown isn't as effective as it should be because a significant amount of people cannot be locked down. Key workers (who are usually the lowest paid) It should be called the "rich work from home."

2) Again the effectiveness is compromised as there is little or no contact testing. Testing itself is minimal. The authorities are unable to say with conviction what the spread of the virus looks like. Testing is key. It's not being done. Therefore the lockdown is probably only about 50% effective to what it should be.

3) There is no quarantining of people arriving into the UK or Ireland. So a second, third, fourth wave is inevitable. Is a 6. 9 or 12 month lockdown viable?

4) People have lost confidence in what appears to be a hugely incompetent response from CMOs, Scientists and Gov.

5) Was on the roads this morning - they are definitely busier. The game is up unless governments publish an exit plan.

6) If anything comes out of this, maybe people will start to question so called "Experts" and by extension Ministers who are hiding behind bullshit lines like "we will be guided by science" It's a f**king copout that translates as "I have no idea what I am doing and I am in a job role far beyond my ability"

7) A vaccine is the solution. Until then we have to live with it. So sensible measures, social distancing, protect the vulnerable. It's the only way forward as our Local and National governments are unable to help.

With respect, the gist of this is a bit silly. Do you advocate people ignore Govt. and scientific advice and make up their own rules about how best to approach this? Would you go to the doctor with an ailment and then decide to ignore his diagnosis if you didn't like it? Politicians in the main are people of very disparate backgrounds and qualifications; when there's a specific or serious issue, and it's hard to think of a more extreme example of this than now, then it's absolutely correct that they take on board the most informed professional guidance available. Point 4 above is very generic and misguided - I don't hear any sustained or national outcry against the current measures being implemented.

Yes of course you're are correct. When has the British government ever lied before?

Be very very careful about trusting these chancers.

I said it before, posts like this are a complete scourge.  The same poster previously talked about "CMO fraudsters". I would love to know your public health credentials that allow you to talk so authoritatively and stridently about this.
"The game is up" - What game? The measures are there to protect you and your family, you make it sound like the measures were taken with ulterior motives. You are presenting this as if someone has something to gain from these arrangements. 
"The authorities are unable to say with conviction" - I'm amazed at how much you are prepared to say with conviction!
"Start to question so-called experts" - Perhaps you would be better listening to someone who will advise you do drink bleach
"A vaccine is the solution" - Let's hope so, but maybe you should read these articles first: 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51665497
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52446965

Listen, I'm shinning a light on the incompetence of Gov, scientists, advisors. Look at their handling of this crisis. Are you telling me they're doing a good job? That they know what they're doing? They got the initial response wrong because they used an infection rate based on the flu rather than coronavirus! If that's not scientific incompetence I don't know what is!
They don't know what they're doing. They have no plan. They're making it up as they go along!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 28, 2020, 03:57:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 03:49:28 PM
The trust people here are putting the British Government is unbelievable. Chris Whitty the UKs CMO has prseided over one of the worst death totals anywhere in the world! But we should follow like a lemming! Catch a grip.

Look up Panoramas tweet about the PPE scandal. Read the replies. The amount of people queuing up to defend the govt is frightening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2020, 04:03:56 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 28, 2020, 03:06:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 03:01:23 PM
People look at politicians or scientists or advisors like they know more than you. Or successful people. They know the secret. They know more than me. Spoiler alert, they don't. Many are promoted far beyond their abilities and spend their days trying not be found out.
The thing is, when it comes to science, scientists know more then you. When it comes to medicine and healthcare, doctors know more than you. This isn't opinion, it's fact.

;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on April 28, 2020, 04:04:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 03:01:23 PM
People look at politicians or scientists or advisors like they know more than you. Or successful people. They know the secret. They know more than me. Spoiler alert, they don't. Many are promoted far beyond their abilities and spend their days trying not be found out.

Same as teachers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 04:08:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 03:49:28 PM
The trust people here are putting the British Government is unbelievable. Chris Whitty the UKs CMO has prseided over one of the worst death totals anywhere in the world! But we should follow like a lemming! Catch a grip.

Yeah, fine - we all know they've fucked up.

But suggesting that people ignore all advice from any source but your own common sense and plough ahead regardless is daft.


If you've got suggestions for how things should proceed - then present them with some logic and/or citations to back your argument up. Otherwise your as useful as a globetrotter without a trailer on the back of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 28, 2020, 04:12:47 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 28, 2020, 03:06:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 03:01:23 PM
People look at politicians or scientists or advisors like they know more than you. Or successful people. They know the secret. They know more than me. Spoiler alert, they don't. Many are promoted far beyond their abilities and spend their days trying not be found out.
The thing is, when it comes to science, scientists know more then you. When it comes to medicine and healthcare, doctors know more than you. This isn't opinion, it's fact.

Well if the government advisers or CMOs or indeed government ministers do, then why are they making such a f**king balls of it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 28, 2020, 04:30:40 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 28, 2020, 03:09:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 03:01:23 PM
People look at politicians or scientists or advisors like they know more than you. Or successful people. They know the secret. They know more than me. Spoiler alert, they don't. Many are promoted far beyond their abilities and spend their days trying not be found out.
;D

Trump?

Now don't get me wrong, our local CMO Michael McBride is probably a very intelligent man and all that but some of the things he comes off with just beggar belief.

I can see where trailer is coming from but I wouldn't go that far  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 28, 2020, 04:31:43 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 04:08:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 03:49:28 PM
The trust people here are putting the British Government is unbelievable. Chris Whitty the UKs CMO has prseided over one of the worst death totals anywhere in the world! But we should follow like a lemming! Catch a grip.

Yeah, fine - we all know they've fucked up.

But suggesting that people ignore all advice from any source but your own common sense and plough ahead regardless is daft.


If you've got suggestions for how things should proceed - then present them with some logic and/or citations to back your argument up. Otherwise your as useful as a globetrotter without a trailer on the back of it.

I'm genuinely not advocating anyone ignores the advice (although plenty are). What I am saying is they got response wrong and as a result we have to endure this draconian lockdown that is only being half arsed implemented anyway. It's utterly pointless without proper testing and contact tracing. As a consequence it's probably very limited in its effectiveness. So we're in this state of semi social distancing, with no plan on how to get out it. This is the fault of the UK Gov, the NI Gov, their scientific advisers and other advisers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 28, 2020, 04:37:13 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 28, 2020, 04:30:40 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 28, 2020, 03:09:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 03:01:23 PM
People look at politicians or scientists or advisors like they know more than you. Or successful people. They know the secret. They know more than me. Spoiler alert, they don't. Many are promoted far beyond their abilities and spend their days trying not be found out.
;D

Trump?

Now don't get me wrong, our local CMO Michael McBride is probably a very intelligent man and all that but some of the things he comes off with just beggar belief.

I can see where trailer is coming from but I wouldn't go that far  ;D

One of the most dangerous viruses exists in the Civil Service. Incompetence is rewarded with promotions. You're promoted every year based on length of service rather than on any ability. Impossible to get sacked. Many people who are simply unemployable in the real world seem to have long careers in the CS. It's a big f**king joke and the taxpayer is the punchline.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Boycey on April 28, 2020, 04:37:46 PM
There's no manual for this Trailer, countries are doing this on the fly. Some seem to have had better results than others maybe more by luck than anything else. One thing that's for sure is that even those countries that got it wrong are desperately trying to get it right and eventually will because they must or this ain't going away. 

Listen to the experts you never know you might learn something.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 28, 2020, 04:39:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 04:37:13 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 28, 2020, 04:30:40 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 28, 2020, 03:09:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 03:01:23 PM
People look at politicians or scientists or advisors like they know more than you. Or successful people. They know the secret. They know more than me. Spoiler alert, they don't. Many are promoted far beyond their abilities and spend their days trying not be found out.
;D

Trump?

Now don't get me wrong, our local CMO Michael McBride is probably a very intelligent man and all that but some of the things he comes off with just beggar belief.

I can see where trailer is coming from but I wouldn't go that far  ;D

One of the most dangerous viruses exists in the Civil Service. Incompetence is rewarded with promotions. You're promoted every year based on length of service rather than on any ability. Impossible to get sacked. Many people who are simply unemployable in the real world seem to have long careers in the CS. It's a big f**king joke and the taxpayer is the punchline.

IMO and I've no evidence to back this up but there does seem to be a heavy undercurrent of good living types in high office.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 28, 2020, 04:41:57 PM
Quote from: Boycey on April 28, 2020, 04:37:46 PM
There's no manual for this Trailer, countries are doing this on the fly. Some seem to have had better results than others maybe more by luck than anything else. One thing that's for sure is that even those countries that got it wrong are desperately trying to get it right and eventually will because they must or this ain't going away. 

Listen to the experts you never know you might learn something.

You see there is a manual. Countries have run simulations for years on how to be prepared for a pandemic. The fact that they aren't prepared is unforgivable. I bet you any money the UK government are prepared for a massive cyber attack on the financial institutions in London, or a huge terrorist attack, or indeed a declaration of war from a hostile nation. There is a f**king manual. These complete bundle of chancers have decided not to fund it or implement it!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 28, 2020, 04:42:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 28, 2020, 04:30:40 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 28, 2020, 03:09:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 03:01:23 PM
People look at politicians or scientists or advisors like they know more than you. Or successful people. They know the secret. They know more than me. Spoiler alert, they don't. Many are promoted far beyond their abilities and spend their days trying not be found out.
;D

Trump?

Now don't get me wrong, our local CMO Michael McBride is probably a very intelligent man and all that but some of the things he comes off with just beggar belief.

I can see where trailer is coming from but I wouldn't go that far  ;D

But is he not being 'guided' by uk rules and regulations?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 28, 2020, 04:45:55 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 28, 2020, 04:42:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 28, 2020, 04:30:40 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 28, 2020, 03:09:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 03:01:23 PM
People look at politicians or scientists or advisors like they know more than you. Or successful people. They know the secret. They know more than me. Spoiler alert, they don't. Many are promoted far beyond their abilities and spend their days trying not be found out.
;D

Trump?

Now don't get me wrong, our local CMO Michael McBride is probably a very intelligent man and all that but some of the things he comes off with just beggar belief.

I can see where trailer is coming from but I wouldn't go that far  ;D

But is he not being 'guided' by uk rules and regulations?

He may well be but unlike Swann who's nice but dim, is meant to be an equal of these lads in London so should be having an input rather than blindly following.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on April 28, 2020, 04:52:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 03:01:23 PM
People look at politicians or scientists or advisors like they know more than you. Or successful people. They know the secret. They know more than me. Spoiler alert, they don't. Many are promoted far beyond their abilities and spend their days trying not be found out.

Is that you in your picture?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 28, 2020, 04:57:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 04:41:57 PM
Quote from: Boycey on April 28, 2020, 04:37:46 PM
There's no manual for this Trailer, countries are doing this on the fly. Some seem to have had better results than others maybe more by luck than anything else. One thing that's for sure is that even those countries that got it wrong are desperately trying to get it right and eventually will because they must or this ain't going away. 

Listen to the experts you never know you might learn something.

You see there is a manual. Countries have run simulations for years on how to be prepared for a pandemic. The fact that they aren't prepared is unforgivable. I bet you any money the UK government are prepared for a massive cyber attack on the financial institutions in London, or a huge terrorist attack, or indeed a declaration of war from a hostile nation. There is a f**king manual. These complete bundle of chancers have decided not to fund it or implement it!

That is probably the best thing you have ever typed trailer........the rest of your posts are still mostly shite but this is bang on the money with regards the UK government
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 28, 2020, 04:59:17 PM
Is anybody other then themselves claiming that the UK government hasn't made an absolute bags of the whole thing? I don't think so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 28, 2020, 04:59:31 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 28, 2020, 04:45:55 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 28, 2020, 04:42:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 28, 2020, 04:30:40 PM
Quote from: hardstation on April 28, 2020, 03:09:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 03:01:23 PM
People look at politicians or scientists or advisors like they know more than you. Or successful people. They know the secret. They know more than me. Spoiler alert, they don't. Many are promoted far beyond their abilities and spend their days trying not be found out.
;D

Trump?

Now don't get me wrong, our local CMO Michael McBride is probably a very intelligent man and all that but some of the things he comes off with just beggar belief.

I can see where trailer is coming from but I wouldn't go that far  ;D

But is he not being 'guided' by uk rules and regulations?

He may well be but unlike Swann who's nice but dim, is meant to be an equal of these lads in London so should be having an input rather than blindly following.

That's what I mean - is it politicians who make the decision to work on a uk wide basis of the CMO?

If you were the CMO, would you not be saying, right, we're a small island.  In terms of stopping the spread of this virus in my opinion, we should be working on an all Ireland island basis instead of 2 separate systems.  That's what happened re: foot and mouth a good few years back.

Or is it politicians' decision/interference.  Who calls the shots in situations like this?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 28, 2020, 05:06:06 PM
The politician is the decision maker, clearly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 05:11:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 04:41:57 PM
Quote from: Boycey on April 28, 2020, 04:37:46 PM
There's no manual for this Trailer, countries are doing this on the fly. Some seem to have had better results than others maybe more by luck than anything else. One thing that's for sure is that even those countries that got it wrong are desperately trying to get it right and eventually will because they must or this ain't going away. 

Listen to the experts you never know you might learn something.

You see there is a manual. Countries have run simulations for years on how to be prepared for a pandemic. The fact that they aren't prepared is unforgivable. I bet you any money the UK government are prepared for a massive cyber attack on the financial institutions in London, or a huge terrorist attack, or indeed a declaration of war from a hostile nation. There is a f**king manual. These complete bundle of chancers have decided not to fund it or implement it!

I read somewhere (I'll try and dig it up later) that the UK had very good simulations for a possible pandemic, they obviously didn't follow it through or the current government didn't trust it once the real shit hit the fan.

Big difference trialling something that's not real
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 28, 2020, 05:14:48 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 28, 2020, 05:06:06 PM
The politician is the decision maker, clearly.

What's the point in having a CMO then if he's going to be usurped?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 28, 2020, 05:16:53 PM
Was there not a panorama on this kind of thing last night? The tories got slated. This kind of thing showed they cared about people more than money (as if we needed to know).

The CMO would only have so much control. Ultimately government make decisions. I would say the CMO has to bite their tongue a lot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 28, 2020, 05:29:05 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 28, 2020, 05:06:06 PM
The politician is the decision maker, clearly.

"Guided by the science" which for me lays the blame at both the door of ministers but also these CMOs frauds.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 28, 2020, 05:52:55 PM
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/taoiseach-under-pressure-from-cabinet-ministers-to-ease-coronavirus-restrictions-39164485.html

And for those who think this virus is no big deal
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/hopes-of-corner-turned-for-kerry-footballers-father-in-induced-coma-due-to-coronavirus-996556.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 06:13:24 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 28, 2020, 04:59:31 PM
That's what I mean - is it politicians who make the decision to work on a uk wide basis of the CMO?

If you were the CMO, would you not be saying, right, we're a small island.  In terms of stopping the spread of this virus in my opinion, we should be working on an all Ireland island basis instead of 2 separate systems.  That's what happened re: foot and mouth a good few years back.

Or is it politicians' decision/interference.  Who calls the shots in situations like this?

If the CMO came out on TV tomorrow and said "they are ignoring my advice and in my opinion putting people in greater danger" - how long do you think the politicians would last under that pressure?

If the experts are being ignored - they have absolute public attention on them right now so the right words would extremely quickly make any cabinet minister's position utterly untenable. Surely they realise that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 28, 2020, 06:25:34 PM
It would also be career suicide you would have thought though? The Tories try to control every message coming out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 28, 2020, 06:27:13 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 06:13:24 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 28, 2020, 04:59:31 PM
That's what I mean - is it politicians who make the decision to work on a uk wide basis of the CMO?

If you were the CMO, would you not be saying, right, we're a small island.  In terms of stopping the spread of this virus in my opinion, we should be working on an all Ireland island basis instead of 2 separate systems.  That's what happened re: foot and mouth a good few years back.

Or is it politicians' decision/interference.  Who calls the shots in situations like this?

If the CMO came out on TV tomorrow and said "they are ignoring my advice and in my opinion putting people in greater danger" - how long do you think the politicians would last under that pressure?

If the experts are being ignored - they have absolute public attention on them right now so the right words would extremely quickly make any cabinet minister's position utterly untenable. Surely they realise that?

Is there anybody on here not saying this should be dealt with on an all island basis?

Is this not just common sense?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on April 28, 2020, 06:27:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 28, 2020, 05:14:48 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 28, 2020, 05:06:06 PM
The politician is the decision maker, clearly.

What's the point in having a CMO then if he's going to be usurped?

Because politicians don't tend to be experts on medical matters. Why is this so hard to grasp?!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2020, 06:30:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 28, 2020, 03:01:23 PM
People look at politicians or scientists or advisors like they know more than you. Or successful people. They know the secret. They know more than me. Spoiler alert, they don't. Many are promoted far beyond their abilities and spend their days trying not be found out.

(https://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/these-smug-pilots-have-lost-touch-with-regular-will-mcphai.jpg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 28, 2020, 06:33:13 PM
79 deaths reported on the island today. We are not making the progress on this that we should after 6 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 28, 2020, 06:33:35 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 28, 2020, 06:27:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 28, 2020, 05:14:48 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 28, 2020, 05:06:06 PM
The politician is the decision maker, clearly.

What's the point in having a CMO then if he's going to be usurped?

Because politicians don't tend to be experts on medical matters. Why is this so hard to grasp?!

You're the one not getting it.

I'm asking who's making the decisions re: closing schools and travel etc. etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on April 28, 2020, 06:36:22 PM
229 new cases today the Lowest daily growth in the ROI in apparently 4 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 06:44:07 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 28, 2020, 06:25:34 PM
It would also be career suicide you would have thought though? The Tories try to control every message coming out.

No way. The optics of that would make any minister that sacked them unelectable. You'd be into real Donald Trump territory there.



Its also not as if they couldn't head off to a lecturing gig in a medical school or even back to practice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 06:46:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 28, 2020, 06:33:13 PM
79 deaths reported on the island today. We are not making the progress on this that we should after 6 weeks.

Indeed - problem is with the crap testing/tracing there probably is very little picture of how people are picking it up.

That google/apple app would be most useful right now (not exactly an exhaustive approach in itself, but a useful start).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 28, 2020, 07:12:47 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 06:44:07 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 28, 2020, 06:25:34 PM
It would also be career suicide you would have thought though? The Tories try to control every message coming out.

No way. The optics of that would make any minister that sacked them unelectable. You'd be into real Donald Trump territory there.



Its also not as if they couldn't head off to a lecturing gig in a medical school or even back to practice.

Yeah not immediately but longer term. I expect they effectively are politicians too though at least with some medical savvy.

Yeah i still don't fully get where people are catching this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 28, 2020, 07:21:55 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 06:46:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 28, 2020, 06:33:13 PM
79 deaths reported on the island today. We are not making the progress on this that we should after 6 weeks.

Indeed - problem is with the crap testing/tracing there probably is very little picture of how people are picking it up.

That google/apple app would be most useful right now (not exactly an exhaustive approach in itself, but a useful start).

Testing changed today in the 26 counties, anyone with 1 symptom will now be tested. This may lead to a boost in cases, but it will be a more realistic figure. If that new figure isn't too high and is declining then perhaps you could ease up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 07:53:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 28, 2020, 07:21:55 PM
Testing changed today in the 26 counties, anyone with 1 symptom will now be tested. This may lead to a boost in cases, but it will be a more realistic figure. If that new figure isn't too high and is declining then perhaps you could ease up.

Good. If they can start exhaustive contact tracing along with that, then it might be possible to get an idea of where/how people are getting it.

It would then mean a better targeting of restrictions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: upmonaghansayswe on April 28, 2020, 08:25:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 28, 2020, 07:21:55 PM
Testing changed today in the 26 counties, anyone with 1 symptom will now be tested. This may lead to a boost in cases, but it will be a more realistic figure. If that new figure isn't too high and is declining then perhaps you could ease up.

Not sure if its implicit in your comment but its not anyone. Still people with chronic medical conditions, hospital workers and those who are household contacts of confirmed cases. I think it has been poorly reported today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: upmonaghansayswe on April 28, 2020, 08:49:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 06:46:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 28, 2020, 06:33:13 PM
79 deaths reported on the island today. We are not making the progress on this that we should after 6 weeks.

Indeed - problem is with the crap testing/tracing there probably is very little picture of how people are picking it up.

That google/apple app would be most useful right now (not exactly an exhaustive approach in itself, but a useful start).

We have tested 31,179 per million. In Europe, only Lithuania, Estonia, Portugal have a higher rate (not counting Iceland or small states). How is this crap?. Genuinely asking.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 09:51:40 PM
Quote from: upmonaghansayswe on April 28, 2020, 08:49:07 PM
We have tested 31,179 per million. In Europe, only Lithuania, Estonia, Portugal have a higher rate (not counting Iceland or small states). How is this crap?. Genuinely asking.

Perhaps things have changed, but its my understanding in the ROI you are only tested if you are presenting symptoms (whereas in the UK you essentially have to be on your death bed  ::) ).
If you are then positive, then no testing is done of your family and no attempts are made to test anyone you have been in contact with over the previous two weeks.
[Anyone, step in and correct me if I'm out of date here!]

That almost just testing for testing's sake. There is no direction to it and only a fraction of the benefit of extensive testing is accrued.

[edit: even if I'm wrong on testing family members, its self-explanatory how they got it - so of limited use outside of treating those individuals.]

Even if they took a representative sample of those that are testing positive and then walked back through their lives for the previous 3 weeks and went testing everyone they were in contact with. Then match up positive cases from those tests to how/where they met the carrier*. It then starts to give an understanding of most likely spreading vectors. From which, you have the beginnings of an information base on how to best fine tune the easement of lockdown.

*problem is now, with it so widespread, its hard to be sure if that was the carrier they got the virus from.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 28, 2020, 09:56:57 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 09:51:40 PM
That almost just testing for testing's sake. There is no direction to it and only a fraction of the benefit of extensive testing is accrued.


Well yes and no. If you have Covid19 then your family and contacts are told to isolate themselves and they will get a test if any symptoms show up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 28, 2020, 10:54:45 PM
2 bean Gardaí doing job well today at Bridgend. Had 2 cars and 1 van pulled in coming from Derry. 3 DL regs. Obviously couldn't prove purpose of journey to Derry and caught on way back. Psni non existent, I've interacted with both forces on border here quite a lot over last 5 weeks and have to say I'm impressed with Gardaí, not saying this as anti Psni post, just genuine observation
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 28, 2020, 10:59:41 PM
Uk estimate of all excess deatgs due to coronavirus (hospital, home, nursing home) now 46,000

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1255183452527374337

The UK is paying for decisions made in March
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/revealed-three-uk-sporting-events-may-have-led-coronavirus-death/

The Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool's tie with Atletico Madrid and the Manchester derby all resulted in more coronavirus cases and deaths

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 11:06:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2020, 10:59:41 PM
Uk estimate of all excess deatgs due to coronavirus (hospital, home, nursing home) now 46,000

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1255183452527374337

The UK is paying for decisions made in March
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/revealed-three-uk-sporting-events-may-have-led-coronavirus-death/

The Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool's tie with Atletico Madrid and the Manchester derby all resulted in more coronavirus cases and deaths

It's a good thing that there was no Irish at those games or Cheltenham, Leo was on the ball early
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 11:28:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 28, 2020, 09:56:57 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 09:51:40 PM
That almost just testing for testing's sake. There is no direction to it and only a fraction of the benefit of extensive testing is accrued.


Well yes and no. If you have Covid19 then your family and contacts are told to isolate themselves and they will get a test if any symptoms show up

Theoretically under lockdown they *should* almost be doing that (isolation) already.

Its figuring out where and how it jumps between family units that'll be key in the next steps.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 11:45:59 PM
Are there deaths being recorded as Covid incorrectly as they haven't tested people properly?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 29, 2020, 12:25:34 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 11:45:59 PM
Are there deaths being recorded as Covid incorrectly as they haven't tested people properly?

No there are tests where the doctor who believes it was Covid although the patient wasn't tested.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 29, 2020, 09:00:52 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 29, 2020, 12:25:34 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 11:45:59 PM
Are there deaths being recorded as Covid incorrectly as they haven't tested people properly?

No there are tests where the doctor who believes it was Covid although the patient wasn't tested.

There must be false Covid diagnoses, I saw on twitter from one regional paper who 2 Covid deaths were categorized as non covid. Sligo I think it was.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 29, 2020, 09:19:53 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 29, 2020, 12:25:34 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 11:45:59 PM
Are there deaths being recorded as Covid incorrectly as they haven't tested people properly?

No there are tests where the doctor who believes it was Covid although the patient wasn't tested.

Reason I brought it up I'd seen ( no citation) quotes of tweets of family saying their loved one had heart attack and in death certificate Covid was used, others were they just died of old age in nursing home (95) Covid was death cert and they weren't tested as they were just buried that day!

But if you think no then it must be true
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: upmonaghansayswe on April 29, 2020, 09:42:32 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 28, 2020, 09:51:40 PM
Quote from: upmonaghansayswe on April 28, 2020, 08:49:07 PM
We have tested 31,179 per million. In Europe, only Lithuania, Estonia, Portugal have a higher rate (not counting Iceland or small states). How is this crap?. Genuinely asking.

Perhaps things have changed, but its my understanding in the ROI you are only tested if you are presenting symptoms (whereas in the UK you essentially have to be on your death bed  ::) ).
If you are then positive, then no testing is done of your family and no attempts are made to test anyone you have been in contact with over the previous two weeks.
[Anyone, step in and correct me if I'm out of date here!]

That almost just testing for testing's sake. There is no direction to it and only a fraction of the benefit of extensive testing is accrued.

[edit: even if I'm wrong on testing family members, its self-explanatory how they got it - so of limited use outside of treating those individuals.]

Even if they took a representative sample of those that are testing positive and then walked back through their lives for the previous 3 weeks and went testing everyone they were in contact with. Then match up positive cases from those tests to how/where they met the carrier*. It then starts to give an understanding of most likely spreading vectors. From which, you have the beginnings of an information base on how to best fine tune the easement of lockdown.

*problem is now, with it so widespread, its hard to be sure if that was the carrier they got the virus from.

We have 19,877 cases but undertaken 153,954 tests. So for every positive case who are the other 7 people being tested?. How can many of them not be contacts, as you suggest?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 29, 2020, 09:52:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 29, 2020, 09:19:53 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 29, 2020, 12:25:34 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 11:45:59 PM
Are there deaths being recorded as Covid incorrectly as they haven't tested people properly?

No there are tests where the doctor who believes it was Covid although the patient wasn't tested.

Reason I brought it up I'd seen ( no citation) quotes of tweets of family saying their loved one had heart attack and in death certificate Covid was used, others were they just died of old age in nursing home (95) Covid was death cert and they weren't tested as they were just buried that day!

But if you think no then it must be true

Covid as a reason for death goes straight to the daily statistics you see. No referal to coroner etc or anything like that. It isn't questioned.

Depends on the medical practitioner and their inclination to be accurate with their paperwork. So in theory, you could have a doctor with no real interest in paperwork, putting Covid as cause of death because it gets paper off their desk.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on April 29, 2020, 09:52:48 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 11:06:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2020, 10:59:41 PM
Uk estimate of all excess deatgs due to coronavirus (hospital, home, nursing home) now 46,000

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1255183452527374337

The UK is paying for decisions made in March
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/revealed-three-uk-sporting-events-may-have-led-coronavirus-death/

The Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool's tie with Atletico Madrid and the Manchester derby all resulted in more coronavirus cases and deaths

It's a good thing that there was no Irish at those games or Cheltenham, Leo was on the ball early

What do you think Leo could/should have done about these events happening on foreign soil?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hardy on April 29, 2020, 09:55:02 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 28, 2020, 05:16:53 PM
Was there not a panorama on this kind of thing last night? The tories got slated. This kind of thing showed they cared about people more than money (as if we needed to know).

The CMO would only have so much control. Ultimately government make decisions. I would say the CMO has to bite their tongue a lot.

It's a bit more sinister and subtle than that, certainly in the UK. This is how they set up the CMO, CSA, etc. to take the blame:

Minister: What do we have to do to stop this thing spreading?
CMO: We have to test a large sample of the population and then do contact tracing.
Minister: But we don't have near enough testing gear or reagents to do that.  (Unspoken – because we implemented cutbacks to cut down the stockpile).
CMO: Then the only option is to lock down the population.

At the press conference:
Journalist: Minister, why are we locking people in their homes for a month?
Minister: We are implementing the scientific advice. We always follow the science.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on April 29, 2020, 09:58:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 11:06:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2020, 10:59:41 PM
Uk estimate of all excess deatgs due to coronavirus (hospital, home, nursing home) now 46,000

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1255183452527374337

The UK is paying for decisions made in March
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/revealed-three-uk-sporting-events-may-have-led-coronavirus-death/

The Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool's tie with Atletico Madrid and the Manchester derby all resulted in more coronavirus cases and deaths

It's a good thing that there was no Irish at those games or Cheltenham, Leo was on the ball early
Cheltenham is such a false flag, certainly didn't help but public transport barely gets a mention as a spreading vehicle. The London underground- 2m people per day before, during and after Cheltenham, along with every other form of public transport in the UK and Ireland.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on April 29, 2020, 10:20:10 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 29, 2020, 09:52:48 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 11:06:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2020, 10:59:41 PM
Uk estimate of all excess deatgs due to coronavirus (hospital, home, nursing home) now 46,000

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1255183452527374337

The UK is paying for decisions made in March
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/revealed-three-uk-sporting-events-may-have-led-coronavirus-death/

The Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool's tie with Atletico Madrid and the Manchester derby all resulted in more coronavirus cases and deaths

It's a good thing that there was no Irish at those games or Cheltenham, Leo was on the ball early

What do you think Leo could/should have done about these events happening on foreign soil?

Letting Italian fans into Ireland wasn't a good decision  when the Rugby was called off.  The fans were going to be a bigger risk then the players mingling in pubs.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 29, 2020, 10:21:03 AM
Quote from: upmonaghansayswe on April 29, 2020, 09:42:32 AM
We have 19,877 cases but undertaken 153,954 tests. So for every positive case who are the other 7 people being tested?. How can many of them not be contacts, as you suggest?

I said I was unsure whether they were family members tested or not.


How many people do you think you were in close proximity to in the past 3 weeks?

Shopworkers? Neighbours? Other shoppers? A ratio of 1:7 is not high enough.

[I don't know what the figures are elsewhere - statista.com was completely wrong on numbers here, no reason they're any less wrong elsewhere.]


... and this is not good news:
https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/28/coronavirus-germany-s-covid-19-infection-rate-rises-after-lockdown-lifted

QuoteThe rate at which the coronavirus is spreading in Germany has increased following the easing of lockdown restrictions.

Authorities say the "R" factor, which measures the average number of people that an infected person contaminates, is now close to the limit of target levels.

It had been at around 0.7 on April 20th when Germany eased restrictions on movement and economic activity.

Now it is at 0.96, said Lothar Wieler, the head of the Robert Koch Institute.

While we might not be ready ourselves to ease lockdown, we can learn from others that are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 29, 2020, 10:23:02 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on April 29, 2020, 10:20:10 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 29, 2020, 09:52:48 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 11:06:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2020, 10:59:41 PM
Uk estimate of all excess deatgs due to coronavirus (hospital, home, nursing home) now 46,000

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1255183452527374337

The UK is paying for decisions made in March
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/revealed-three-uk-sporting-events-may-have-led-coronavirus-death/

The Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool's tie with Atletico Madrid and the Manchester derby all resulted in more coronavirus cases and deaths

It's a good thing that there was no Irish at those games or Cheltenham, Leo was on the ball early

What do you think Leo could/should have done about these events happening on foreign soil?

Letting Italian fans into Ireland wasn't a good decision  when the Rugby was called off. The fans were going to be a bigger risk then the players mingling in pubs.

Serious question - Did many Italians come to Dublin that weekend?

I can't find anything to suggest Dublin was packed with Italians that weekend, maybe someone in and around the City could provide some insight?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on April 29, 2020, 10:35:58 AM
I don't know the figure but if was 100 or whatever, that still has a domino effect and over time those numbers increase.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 29, 2020, 10:45:46 AM
Quote from: Hardy on April 29, 2020, 09:55:02 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 28, 2020, 05:16:53 PM
Was there not a panorama on this kind of thing last night? The tories got slated. This kind of thing showed they cared about people more than money (as if we needed to know).

The CMO would only have so much control. Ultimately government make decisions. I would say the CMO has to bite their tongue a lot.

It's a bit more sinister and subtle than that, certainly in the UK. This is how they set up the CMO, CSA, etc. to take the blame:

Minister: What do we have to do to stop this thing spreading?
CMO: We have to test a large sample of the population and then do contact tracing.
Minister: But we don't have near enough testing gear or reagents to do that.  (Unspoken – because we implemented cutbacks to cut down the stockpile).
CMO: Then the only option is to lock down the population.

At the press conference:
Journalist: Minister, why are we locking people in their homes for a month?
Minister: We are implementing the scientific advice. We always follow the science.

Yeah that would be my view on what is probably going on too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on April 29, 2020, 11:02:34 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 29, 2020, 09:58:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 11:06:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2020, 10:59:41 PM
Uk estimate of all excess deatgs due to coronavirus (hospital, home, nursing home) now 46,000

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1255183452527374337

The UK is paying for decisions made in March
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/revealed-three-uk-sporting-events-may-have-led-coronavirus-death/

The Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool's tie with Atletico Madrid and the Manchester derby all resulted in more coronavirus cases and deaths

It's a good thing that there was no Irish at those games or Cheltenham, Leo was on the ball early
Cheltenham is such a false flag, certainly didn't help but public transport barely gets a mention as a spreading vehicle. The London underground- 2m people per day before, during and after Cheltenham, along with every other form of public transport in the UK and Ireland.

Eh, you're comparing a non essential leisure event with a transport system holding one of the major cities in the world together. London was and is continuously mentioned as a major hotspot for the virus
250k odd sweaty drinkers hugging and coughing / slabbering over each other for days on end before departing to the 4 corners of Ireland and the UK. I personally know a GP who tested positive after he came back and him in contact with the most vulnerable.
Cheltenham should not have happened and should rightly be mentioned... Whoever gave the green light is carrying a heavy burden at this stage
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 29, 2020, 11:37:48 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/fears-over-aer-lingus-jobs-as-british-airways-seeks-12-000-redundancies-1.4240265
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 29, 2020, 11:42:12 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 29, 2020, 11:02:34 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 29, 2020, 09:58:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 11:06:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2020, 10:59:41 PM
Uk estimate of all excess deatgs due to coronavirus (hospital, home, nursing home) now 46,000

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1255183452527374337

The UK is paying for decisions made in March
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/revealed-three-uk-sporting-events-may-have-led-coronavirus-death/

The Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool's tie with Atletico Madrid and the Manchester derby all resulted in more coronavirus cases and deaths

It's a good thing that there was no Irish at those games or Cheltenham, Leo was on the ball early
Cheltenham is such a false flag, certainly didn't help but public transport barely gets a mention as a spreading vehicle. The London underground- 2m people per day before, during and after Cheltenham, along with every other form of public transport in the UK and Ireland.

Eh, you're comparing a non essential leisure event with a transport system holding one of the major cities in the world together. London was and is continuously mentioned as a major hotspot for the virus
250k odd sweaty drinkers hugging and coughing / slabbering over each other for days on end before departing to the 4 corners of Ireland and the UK. I personally know a GP who tested positive after he came back and him in contact with the most vulnerable.
Cheltenham should not have happened and should rightly be mentioned... Whoever gave the green light is carrying a heavy burden at this stage

Cheltenham brought people from all over, infected them and sent them home to infect people when the R number was at least 2.5. 1 infected person at Cheltenham with the R at 2.5 would have meant 406 infected after 30 days.
The Atletico match brought infection from Madrid and embedded it in Liverpool.
The UK now has the worst numbers in Europe. FT estimate 46,000 excess  deaths

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on April 29, 2020, 11:53:00 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 29, 2020, 10:23:02 AM
Serious question - Did many Italians come to Dublin that weekend?

I can't find anything to suggest Dublin was packed with Italians that weekend, maybe someone in and around the City could provide some insight?

Good question too.

Here's a possible answer from twitter, dated 8 March.

Deric Ó hArtagáinTV @deric_tv Mar 8
16 million Italians quarantined but they can still get a flight to Dublin!! Can some explain to me WHY there are still flights coming into Ireland from Northern Italy?? Is lockdown not lockdown?? Public health is top priority nowPolice cars revolving light #COVID19ireland #COVID19 #coronvirusireland

Veruska Anconitano @LaCuochina
Replying to @deric_tv @ShaneRaftery and 4 others
Jesus, it's not hard to understand: it's for Irish coming home! Italians cannot travel outside of the red zones and trust me, they don't have any desire to come to Ireland now and get stucked here. Seriously, this is ridiculous and ignorant!
9:34 PM · Mar 8, 2020 from Dublin City, Ireland·Twitter for iPhone
1 Retweet
30 Likes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on April 29, 2020, 11:53:09 AM
And and response from any government representative will be... We followed the advice of ..... Or we followed the scientific advice and repeat and repeat.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 29, 2020, 12:12:47 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/5357d014-822f-11ea-b872-8db45d5f6714

A Cambridge university project on "resilient normality" has crowdsourced 275 suggestions: they include stripping doors of handles in public places, delivery drones, rotas for school attendance and free rental bikes to reduce transport overcrowding. Any kind of normality lies some way off, but science offers the safest and quickest path out of the woods.

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/study-identifies-275-ways-to-reduce-spread-of-coronavirus-following-lockdown
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: upmonaghansayswe on April 29, 2020, 12:14:43 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 29, 2020, 10:21:03 AM
Quote from: upmonaghansayswe on April 29, 2020, 09:42:32 AM
We have 19,877 cases but undertaken 153,954 tests. So for every positive case who are the other 7 people being tested?. How can many of them not be contacts, as you suggest?

I said I was unsure whether they were family members tested or not.

How many people do you think you were in close proximity to in the past 3 weeks?

Shopworkers? Neighbours? Other shoppers? A ratio of 1:7 is not high enough.

[I don't know what the figures are elsewhere - statista.com was completely wrong on numbers here, no reason they're any less wrong elsewhere.]


Figures from Gov.ie so I'm going to believe them.

So no other comparable country (bar the ones i listed) has done any more testing per population than we have and yet you say a ratio of 1:7 is not high enough. I don't think that is a reasonable stance. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 29, 2020, 12:30:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 29, 2020, 11:42:12 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 29, 2020, 11:02:34 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 29, 2020, 09:58:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 11:06:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2020, 10:59:41 PM
Uk estimate of all excess deatgs due to coronavirus (hospital, home, nursing home) now 46,000

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1255183452527374337

The UK is paying for decisions made in March
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/revealed-three-uk-sporting-events-may-have-led-coronavirus-death/

The Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool's tie with Atletico Madrid and the Manchester derby all resulted in more coronavirus cases and deaths

It's a good thing that there was no Irish at those games or Cheltenham, Leo was on the ball early
Cheltenham is such a false flag, certainly didn't help but public transport barely gets a mention as a spreading vehicle. The London underground- 2m people per day before, during and after Cheltenham, along with every other form of public transport in the UK and Ireland.

Eh, you're comparing a non essential leisure event with a transport system holding one of the major cities in the world together. London was and is continuously mentioned as a major hotspot for the virus
250k odd sweaty drinkers hugging and coughing / slabbering over each other for days on end before departing to the 4 corners of Ireland and the UK. I personally know a GP who tested positive after he came back and him in contact with the most vulnerable.
Cheltenham should not have happened and should rightly be mentioned... Whoever gave the green light is carrying a heavy burden at this stage

Cheltenham brought people from all over, infected them and sent them home to infect people when the R number was at least 2.5. 1 infected person at Cheltenham with the R at 2.5 would have meant 406 infected after 30 days.
The Atletico match brought infection from Madrid and embedded it in Liverpool.
The UK now has the worst numbers in Europe. FT estimate 46,000 excess  deaths

Confirmed amount of deaths for the UK at the moment is 21,678. If true that's some load of virus deaths not counted.

I'd wonder how many tourists from around the world still came to Ireland after St Patrick's day was cancelled?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 29, 2020, 12:35:34 PM
Quote from: upmonaghansayswe on April 29, 2020, 12:14:43 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 29, 2020, 10:21:03 AM
Quote from: upmonaghansayswe on April 29, 2020, 09:42:32 AM
We have 19,877 cases but undertaken 153,954 tests. So for every positive case who are the other 7 people being tested?. How can many of them not be contacts, as you suggest?

I said I was unsure whether they were family members tested or not.

How many people do you think you were in close proximity to in the past 3 weeks?

Shopworkers? Neighbours? Other shoppers? A ratio of 1:7 is not high enough.

[I don't know what the figures are elsewhere - statista.com was completely wrong on numbers here, no reason they're any less wrong elsewhere.]


Figures from Gov.ie so I'm going to believe them.

So no other comparable country (bar the ones i listed) has done any more testing per population than we have and yet you say a ratio of 1:7 is not high enough. I don't think that is a reasonable stance.

Ireland has a creditable record on testing, but perhaps it still just falls that bit short.
Portugal, not necessarily known for its public administration, has an excellent record on testing and many fewer cases, so that level of testing is probably sufficient to keep things under control. Ireland has more cases and so needs more testing to be able to test contacts etc.

QuoteConfirmed amount of deaths for the UK at the moment is 21,678. If true that's some load of virus deaths not counted.

Half the cases here, and in most European countries, were in nursing homes and the like, if you do not count them then you are falling short.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on April 29, 2020, 12:43:47 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 29, 2020, 11:02:34 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 29, 2020, 09:58:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 11:06:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2020, 10:59:41 PM
Uk estimate of all excess deatgs due to coronavirus (hospital, home, nursing home) now 46,000

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1255183452527374337

The UK is paying for decisions made in March
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/revealed-three-uk-sporting-events-may-have-led-coronavirus-death/

The Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool's tie with Atletico Madrid and the Manchester derby all resulted in more coronavirus cases and deaths

It's a good thing that there was no Irish at those games or Cheltenham, Leo was on the ball early
Cheltenham is such a false flag, certainly didn't help but public transport barely gets a mention as a spreading vehicle. The London underground- 2m people per day before, during and after Cheltenham, along with every other form of public transport in the UK and Ireland.

Eh, you're comparing a non essential leisure event with a transport system holding one of the major cities in the world together. London was and is continuously mentioned as a major hotspot for the virus
250k odd sweaty drinkers hugging and coughing / slabbering over each other for days on end before departing to the 4 corners of Ireland and the UK. I personally know a GP who tested positive after he came back and him in contact with the most vulnerable.
Cheltenham should not have happened and should rightly be mentioned... Whoever gave the green light is carrying a heavy burden at this stage
One largely open air, the other in confined spaces - the danger of infection so much more dangerous on enclosed transport. It was unnecessary surely but it's impact has been overstated IMO. How many people flew, sailed, travelled on trains, tubes  within and between the British isles in the same period? Easily dwarfs Cheltenham numbers I'd say. It was a high profile, easy target.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 29, 2020, 12:49:25 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 29, 2020, 12:43:47 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 29, 2020, 11:02:34 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 29, 2020, 09:58:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 11:06:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2020, 10:59:41 PM
Uk estimate of all excess deatgs due to coronavirus (hospital, home, nursing home) now 46,000

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1255183452527374337

The UK is paying for decisions made in March
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/revealed-three-uk-sporting-events-may-have-led-coronavirus-death/

The Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool's tie with Atletico Madrid and the Manchester derby all resulted in more coronavirus cases and deaths

It's a good thing that there was no Irish at those games or Cheltenham, Leo was on the ball early
Cheltenham is such a false flag, certainly didn't help but public transport barely gets a mention as a spreading vehicle. The London underground- 2m people per day before, during and after Cheltenham, along with every other form of public transport in the UK and Ireland.

Eh, you're comparing a non essential leisure event with a transport system holding one of the major cities in the world together. London was and is continuously mentioned as a major hotspot for the virus
250k odd sweaty drinkers hugging and coughing / slabbering over each other for days on end before departing to the 4 corners of Ireland and the UK. I personally know a GP who tested positive after he came back and him in contact with the most vulnerable.
Cheltenham should not have happened and should rightly be mentioned... Whoever gave the green light is carrying a heavy burden at this stage
One largely open air, the other in confined spaces - the danger of infection so much more dangerous on enclosed transport. It was unnecessary surely but it's impact has been overstated IMO. How many people flew, sailed, travelled on trains, tubes  within and between the British isles in the same period? Easily dwarfs Cheltenham numbers I'd say. It was a high profile, easy target.

A profile target that didn't need to be on, now at the time of Cheltenham, how many people had died of Covid in the UK? One death in hindsight should have been enough to cancel the event, flights in and out of Ireland should have been stopped, only rescued flights put on, this is where Leo didn't act, along with others as New Zealand closed theirs. And now they are back to a better normal.

This needs to be done on wave 2, let's see who reacts first
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 29, 2020, 12:56:51 PM
Quote from: upmonaghansayswe on April 29, 2020, 12:14:43 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 29, 2020, 10:21:03 AM
Quote from: upmonaghansayswe on April 29, 2020, 09:42:32 AM
We have 19,877 cases but undertaken 153,954 tests. So for every positive case who are the other 7 people being tested?. How can many of them not be contacts, as you suggest?

I said I was unsure whether they were family members tested or not.

How many people do you think you were in close proximity to in the past 3 weeks?

Shopworkers? Neighbours? Other shoppers? A ratio of 1:7 is not high enough.

[I don't know what the figures are elsewhere - statista.com was completely wrong on numbers here, no reason they're any less wrong elsewhere.]


Figures from Gov.ie so I'm going to believe them.

So no other comparable country (bar the ones i listed) has done any more testing per population than we have and yet you say a ratio of 1:7 is not high enough. I don't think that is a reasonable stance.

Germany and Russia might have higher per head testing rates (nearly double) than ROI - but those numbers are from statista.com - so not sure how much to trust them. [That was in my original reply, but removed due to uncertainty of data]


For proper testing & tracing to work, it has to be able to work back through all possible transmission points over the last 2/3 weeks. That is almost certainly gonna be more than 7 people for anyone not cocooning in the country. Hence 1:7 is still insufficient.

BTW - its not a race to be "better" than anyone else - its a race to be good enough to control spread without a one-size-fits-all policy.


The ROI are now starting to test on the kind of scale that will be required, and credit to them for that.

https://www.gov.ie/en/news/7e0924-latest-updates-on-covid-19-coronavirus/
QuoteUpdate on testing
in the past 7 days (Monday 20 - Monday 27 April 2020) - 41,470 tests have been carried out
of the 41,470 tests, 5355 (12.9%) resulted in positives
a total of 153,954 tests have been carried out in Ireland so far
current lab capacity is for 60,000 tests per week. By the end of this week, that figure will reach 70,000. By the third week of May, that figure will reach 100,000 per week. An average of 4,000 tests per day (28,000 per week) are currently being referred

100k/week is 2% of the population could be tested every week.

In the UK, even after their ramp up to the envisaged 100k tests per day, is only at half that per head as the ROI.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on April 29, 2020, 01:57:36 PM
A mate who works at a hospital had mild symptoms so was tested and turn out he had it but his girlfriend whom he lives with tested negative for it, don't see how she wouldn't have got it. He seems to think there's an issue with the testing.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 29, 2020, 02:08:30 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 29, 2020, 01:57:36 PM
A mate who works at a hospital had mild symptoms so was tested and turn out he had it but his girlfriend whom he lives with tested negative for it, don't see how she wouldn't have got it. He seems to think there's an issue with the testing.

Genetics, she might just have a stronger system.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 29, 2020, 02:10:12 PM
Some interesting articles on Sweden -

One line actually stuck out for me -

Herd immunity "has historically been nature's way of ending pandemics," added Dr. David Katz, the public health physician who helped kick off the debate in an essay he wrote in The New York Times on March 20 and in a follow-up interview we did together.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medical/lockdown-free-stockholm-could-achieve-herd-immunity-in-may-claim-by-swedish-ambassador-as-she-reveals-30percent-of-the-citys-population-already-have-immunity/ar-BB13mSu9?li=BBoPWjQ

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/how-sweden-is-dealing-with-the-coronavirus/ar-BB13mdYn?li=BBoPWjQ
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on April 29, 2020, 02:15:45 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 29, 2020, 12:43:47 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 29, 2020, 11:02:34 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 29, 2020, 09:58:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 11:06:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2020, 10:59:41 PM
Uk estimate of all excess deatgs due to coronavirus (hospital, home, nursing home) now 46,000

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1255183452527374337

The UK is paying for decisions made in March
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/revealed-three-uk-sporting-events-may-have-led-coronavirus-death/

The Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool's tie with Atletico Madrid and the Manchester derby all resulted in more coronavirus cases and deaths

It's a good thing that there was no Irish at those games or Cheltenham, Leo was on the ball early
Cheltenham is such a false flag, certainly didn't help but public transport barely gets a mention as a spreading vehicle. The London underground- 2m people per day before, during and after Cheltenham, along with every other form of public transport in the UK and Ireland.

Eh, you're comparing a non essential leisure event with a transport system holding one of the major cities in the world together. London was and is continuously mentioned as a major hotspot for the virus
250k odd sweaty drinkers hugging and coughing / slabbering over each other for days on end before departing to the 4 corners of Ireland and the UK. I personally know a GP who tested positive after he came back and him in contact with the most vulnerable.
Cheltenham should not have happened and should rightly be mentioned... Whoever gave the green light is carrying a heavy burden at this stage
One largely open air, the other in confined spaces - the danger of infection so much more dangerous on enclosed transport. It was unnecessary surely but it's impact has been overstated IMO. How many people flew, sailed, travelled on trains, tubes  within and between the British isles in the same period? Easily dwarfs Cheltenham numbers I'd say. It was a high profile, easy target.

https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2020-04-23/legitimate-questions-over-whether-cheltenham-festival-may-be-linked-to-coronavirus-deaths/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 29, 2020, 02:15:48 PM
Has any medical guru or body established that getting the virus gives you immunity?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 29, 2020, 02:38:34 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 29, 2020, 01:57:36 PM
A mate who works at a hospital had mild symptoms so was tested and turn out he had it but his girlfriend whom he lives with tested negative for it, don't see how she wouldn't have got it. He seems to think there's an issue with the testing.

I think the tests aren't 100% accurate - but they are way better than the alternative.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 29, 2020, 02:40:58 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 29, 2020, 02:10:12 PM
Some interesting articles on Sweden -

One line actually stuck out for me -

Herd immunity "has historically been nature's way of ending pandemics," added Dr. David Katz, the public health physician who helped kick off the debate in an essay he wrote in The New York Times on March 20 and in a follow-up interview we did together.

By killing a sizeable proportion of the population in order to achieve that herd immunity.


Herd immunity is not a ground-breaking concept. Its the causality rate of getting from zero to ~80% immunity in the population that is needed that is the problem. Do it by vaccine - great. Do it by letting a virulent disease sweep through - not so great.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 29, 2020, 02:41:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 29, 2020, 02:15:48 PM
Has any medical guru or body established that getting the virus gives you immunity?

https://www.ft.com/content/5357d014-822f-11ea-b872-8db45d5f6714

It seems irresponsible to advocate widespread infection with a virus that was unknown four months ago, even if treatments exist and hospitals can cope. Covid-19's long-term effect on survivors is uncertain; it ravages the heart and kidneys as well as the lungs and kills an estimated 0.7 per cent of those infected. . It is also possible that infection confers only weak or brief protection, meaning herd immunity may never be reached. Allowing the virus free rein would be a high-stakes gamble for no return
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on April 29, 2020, 03:00:57 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 29, 2020, 02:10:12 PM
Some interesting articles on Sweden -

One line actually stuck out for me -

Herd immunity "has historically been nature's way of ending pandemics," added Dr. David Katz, the public health physician who helped kick off the debate in an essay he wrote in The New York Times on March 20 and in a follow-up interview we did together.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medical/lockdown-free-stockholm-could-achieve-herd-immunity-in-may-claim-by-swedish-ambassador-as-she-reveals-30percent-of-the-citys-population-already-have-immunity/ar-BB13mSu9?li=BBoPWjQ

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/how-sweden-is-dealing-with-the-coronavirus/ar-BB13mdYn?li=BBoPWjQ

The only way herd immunity has ever been achieved is through vaccines.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hardy on April 29, 2020, 05:03:41 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 29, 2020, 11:42:12 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 29, 2020, 11:02:34 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 29, 2020, 09:58:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2020, 11:06:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 28, 2020, 10:59:41 PM
Uk estimate of all excess deatgs due to coronavirus (hospital, home, nursing home) now 46,000

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1255183452527374337

The UK is paying for decisions made in March
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/revealed-three-uk-sporting-events-may-have-led-coronavirus-death/

The Cheltenham Festival, Liverpool's tie with Atletico Madrid and the Manchester derby all resulted in more coronavirus cases and deaths

It's a good thing that there was no Irish at those games or Cheltenham, Leo was on the ball early
Cheltenham is such a false flag, certainly didn't help but public transport barely gets a mention as a spreading vehicle. The London underground- 2m people per day before, during and after Cheltenham, along with every other form of public transport in the UK and Ireland.

Eh, you're comparing a non essential leisure event with a transport system holding one of the major cities in the world together. London was and is continuously mentioned as a major hotspot for the virus
250k odd sweaty drinkers hugging and coughing / slabbering over each other for days on end before departing to the 4 corners of Ireland and the UK. I personally know a GP who tested positive after he came back and him in contact with the most vulnerable.
Cheltenham should not have happened and should rightly be mentioned... Whoever gave the green light is carrying a heavy burden at this stage

Cheltenham brought people from all over, infected them and sent them home to infect people when the R number was at least 2.5. 1 infected person at Cheltenham with the R at 2.5 would have meant 406 infected after 30 days.
The Atletico match brought infection from Madrid and embedded it in Liverpool.
The UK now has the worst numbers in Europe. FT estimate 46,000 excess  deaths

Seafoid, just curious about the calculation that it takes 30 days to reach 406 as the number infected at R=2.5. That implies that the 2.5 people infected by each carrier are infected over a five day period. Is that the standard methodology for estimating the numbers infected for a given R?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 29, 2020, 05:12:54 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 29, 2020, 05:03:41 PMSeafoid, just curious about the calculation that it takes 30 days to reach 406 as the number infected at R=2.5. That implies that the 2.5 people infected by each carrier are infected over a five day period. Is that the standard methodology for estimating the numbers infected for a given R?

It'll depend on the contagious period of the disease.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0282_article

R0 might have been nearly 6 in the early stages!

QuoteSevere acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 is the causative agent of the 2019 novel coronavirus disease pandemic. Initial estimates of the early dynamics of the outbreak in Wuhan, China, suggested a doubling time of the number of infected persons of 6–7 days and a basic reproductive number (R0) of 2.2–2.7. We collected extensive individual case reports across China and estimated key epidemiologic parameters, including the incubation period. We then designed 2 mathematical modeling approaches to infer the outbreak dynamics in Wuhan by using high-resolution domestic travel and infection data. Results show that the doubling time early in the epidemic in Wuhan was 2.3–3.3 days. Assuming a serial interval of 6–9 days, we calculated a median R0 value of 5.7 (95% CI 3.8–8.9). We further show that active surveillance, contact tracing, quarantine, and early strong social distancing efforts are needed to stop transmission of the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hardy on April 29, 2020, 05:25:07 PM
Thanks - makes sense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on April 29, 2020, 06:08:55 PM
Can anyone answering me this - we went into lockdown at the end of March, say 30 days ago, and the virus has 14 day risk period - should we not be seeing much lower figures than we are in terms of new cases?  I'm getting increasingly pessimistic that this virus is very stubborn and has still plenty of fight left in it.  Where are these new cases coming from if we are spending most of our time in the house?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 29, 2020, 06:18:58 PM
There is a lot of pressure from business interests to reopen things but here is a selection of views from the Financial Times about ending the lockdown

https://www.ft.com/content/d0b7a5f2-886f-11ea-a01c-a28a3e3fbd33

Scientists at Harvard University suggested that periods of social distancing may be required until 2022 and possibly beyond, if hospitals are to avoid becoming overwhelmed by future waves of infection. If treatments and vaccines do not arrive quickly, we may need to steel ourselves for prolonged economic and social disruption
https://www.ft.com/content/d0b7a5f2-886f-11ea-a01c-a28a3e3fbd33

Much has been made of the poor pay and insecure employment of many workers on whom we rely the most. But there is a third inequality, between those with a choice about how much risk to take with their health and those without; those who can structure their work to reduce the danger of infection with coronavirus and those who cannot.
https://www.ft.com/content/d0b7a5f2-886f-11ea-a01c-a28a3e3fbd33

On Monday, the Trades Union Congress released polling showing two-fifths of workers were worried about of returning to work, doubting the viability of social-distancing measures. One-third feared taking the virus home.
https://www.ft.com/content/d0b7a5f2-886f-11ea-a01c-a28a3e3fbd33

How does a hairdresser practise social distancing? Or a teacher, or nursery worker? And how safe can you make a crowded train or a packed bus? Makeshift face masks will help but the real issue will be the extent to which their employers can be encouraged to stagger the working day to ease congestion. 

https://www.ft.com/content/e486590e-8539-11ea-b872-8db45d5f6714


. Everything would not be fine economically if lockdowns were lifted. The implicit assumption is that we would then return to where the economy was before the coronavirus. But that is impossible. The real question is what would happen to today's economy in the absence of today's lockdowns. The answer is that, if the virus were to run rampant yet again, a large part of face-to-face economic activity would again cease to exist.  True, if lockdowns ended and support for people without a job was also withdrawn, many might be compelled back to work. That might even raise economic output. But it would reinforce the inequality already created by the disease between those who can survive at home and those who cannot. Not only would lifting official lockdowns be unlikely to bring the economy roaring back to life if the disease were still prevalent. Worse, a reopening followed by a wave of rising infections and a lockdown, or even a cycle of reopenings and lockdowns, would devastate the economy — quite apart from the credibility of policymakers. The point that the degree of economically-costly social distancing depends on the prevalence of the disease is crucial. But, as an important new paper from the University of California Berkeley shows, there is far more to the policy decision than this. The paper analyses two strategies: "short-term control", which tries to keep the rate of infection within limits; and "long-term control", which seeks to limit the total number of infections, ultimately bringing the flow to very lowlevels.  These strategies are related to "mitigation" and "suppression", as discussed in an influential paper from Imperial College London. In the UK political debate, they correspond to reopening when the reproduction rate of the disease is close to one (a constant rate of infection, at its peak rate) or when the rate is close to zero (which implies near elimination). 

https://www.ft.com/content/e486590e-8539-11ea-b872-8db45d5f6714


The paper analyses four sorts of costs: the costs of lost lives; the lost work days of the sick; the medical costs associated with higher incidence of disease; and the costs (primarily economic) of social distancing, both officially imposed and spontaneous. The overall conclusion is overwhelming.
The least costly option is strong suppression: it saves lives, massively reduces medical costs and even lowers the economic costs of social distancing over the course of the epidemic.  Yes, persisting with the lockdown until the disease has been brought to really low levels imposes big economic costs now. But it must also be seen as an investment, whose fruits will be a more tolerable future. This extra time now must also be used to put in place the systems needed to keep the disease suppressed.

https://www.ft.com/content/5357d014-822f-11ea-b872-8db45d5f6714

Scientists at Harvard University suggested that periods of social distancing may be required until 2022 and possibly beyond, if hospitals are to avoid becoming overwhelmed by future waves of infection. If treatments and vaccines do not arrive quickly, we may need to steel ourselves for prolonged economic and social disruption

https://www.ft.com/content/5357d014-822f-11ea-b872-8db45d5f6714


it seems irresponsible to advocate widespread infection with a virus that was unknown four months ago, even if treatments exist and hospitals can cope. Covid-19's long-term effect on survivors is uncertain; it ravages the heart and kidneys as well as the lungs and kills an estimated 0.7 per cent of those infected. . It is also possible that infection confers only weak or brief protection, meaning herd immunity may never be reached. Allowing the virus free rein would be a high-stakes gamble for no return

https://www.ft.com/content/5357d014-822f-11ea-b872-8db45d5f6714

A Cambridge university project on "resilient normality" has crowdsourced 275 suggestions: they include stripping doors of handles in public places, delivery drones, rotas for school attendance and free rental bikes to reduce transport overcrowding. Any kind of normality lies some way off, but science offers the safest and quickest path out of the woods.

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/study-identifies-275-ways-to-reduce-spread-of-coronavirus-following-lockdown
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on April 29, 2020, 06:23:21 PM
Seafoid must get paid for sharing news articles 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 29, 2020, 06:25:32 PM
The U.S. death toll from the coronavirus stands at over 60,000 higher than the 58,220 Americans who were killed in the years-long Vietnam War.

The death toll from the virus in the UK rises to more than 26,000 after care home deaths are included for first time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on April 29, 2020, 06:26:26 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 29, 2020, 06:23:21 PM
Seafoid must get paid for sharing news articles

He loves it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 29, 2020, 06:29:29 PM
Activities involving close contact, such as hairdressing, are done by a household member, but with guidance provided by a professional via video link.

This was an interesting suggestion, if you do not live alone. Perhaps dentistry could be on a similar basis.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 29, 2020, 06:43:20 PM
And heart surgery, knee replacements etc etc
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on April 29, 2020, 06:43:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 29, 2020, 06:29:29 PM
Activities involving close contact, such as hairdressing, are done by a household member, but with guidance provided by a professional via video link.

This was an interesting suggestion, if you do not live alone. Perhaps dentistry could be on a similar basis.

I'd say that would end well!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 29, 2020, 07:02:55 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 29, 2020, 06:08:55 PM
Can anyone answering me this - we went into lockdown at the end of March, say 30 days ago, and the virus has 14 day risk period - should we not be seeing much lower figures than we are in terms of new cases?  I'm getting increasingly pessimistic that this virus is very stubborn and has still plenty of fight left in it.  Where are these new cases coming from if we are spending most of our time in the house?

Very much so.

Lockdown as it stands at the moment is not working as well as we would hope. How new cases are occurring is something that needs to be ascertained ASAP.

Are shops the common factor?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 29, 2020, 07:04:42 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 29, 2020, 06:08:55 PM
Can anyone answering me this - we went into lockdown at the end of March, say 30 days ago, and the virus has 14 day risk period - should we not be seeing much lower figures than we are in terms of new cases?  I'm getting increasingly pessimistic that this virus is very stubborn and has still plenty of fight left in it.  Where are these new cases coming from if we are spending most of our time in the house?

I can't answer that either and would prefer your post not to get lost in the mass of link pasting then excerpts from the link people can read for themselves!!

I can only guess people have passed to other people in households and workplaces. Then they will already have their herd immunity lol. To be honest I am puzzled too. I , like yourself, do not follow how so many still get it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on April 29, 2020, 07:05:14 PM
Quote from: grounded on April 29, 2020, 06:43:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 29, 2020, 06:29:29 PM
Activities involving close contact, such as hairdressing, are done by a household member, but with guidance provided by a professional via video link.

This was an interesting suggestion, if you do not live alone. Perhaps dentistry could be on a similar basis.

I'd say that would end well!

Piece of string and a door handle. Job jobbed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omaghjoe on April 29, 2020, 07:14:11 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 29, 2020, 06:08:55 PM
Can anyone answering me this - we went into lockdown at the end of March, say 30 days ago, and the virus has 14 day risk period - should we not be seeing much lower figures than we are in terms of new cases?  I'm getting increasingly pessimistic that this virus is very stubborn and has still plenty of fight left in it.  Where are these new cases coming from if we are spending most of our time in the house?

Alot of it is down to the numbers of tests..... They are expanding testing based on need (or how much money you seem to have) So the more people that are tested the more positives you are going to get.
To gauge the spread in the community in Los Angles County in California they were using the % of positives. I think I heard them mentioned is was 10% in LA county whereas in New York 40% of all the people tested were positive.

In any case the key thing is that while the increase may be increasing numerically day to day it is slowing as a percentage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hardy on April 29, 2020, 07:31:06 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 29, 2020, 06:26:26 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 29, 2020, 06:23:21 PM
Seafoid must get paid for sharing news articles

He loves it

Who's forcing anyone to read them? What can be wrong with providing access to further information on the subject of a thread? Do you complain that there are too many books in your local library?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 29, 2020, 07:33:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 29, 2020, 07:02:55 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 29, 2020, 06:08:55 PM
Can anyone answering me this - we went into lockdown at the end of March, say 30 days ago, and the virus has 14 day risk period - should we not be seeing much lower figures than we are in terms of new cases?  I'm getting increasingly pessimistic that this virus is very stubborn and has still plenty of fight left in it.  Where are these new cases coming from if we are spending most of our time in the house?

Very much so.

Lockdown as it stands at the moment is not working as well as we would hope. How new cases are occurring is something that needs to be ascertained ASAP.

Are shops the common factor?
Health workers are now about 25% of all cases and probably a higher percentage of the new cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 29, 2020, 07:38:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 29, 2020, 07:33:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 29, 2020, 07:02:55 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 29, 2020, 06:08:55 PM
Can anyone answering me this - we went into lockdown at the end of March, say 30 days ago, and the virus has 14 day risk period - should we not be seeing much lower figures than we are in terms of new cases?  I'm getting increasingly pessimistic that this virus is very stubborn and has still plenty of fight left in it.  Where are these new cases coming from if we are spending most of our time in the house?

Very much so.

Lockdown as it stands at the moment is not working as well as we would hope. How new cases are occurring is something that needs to be ascertained ASAP.

Are shops the common factor?
Health workers are now about 25% of all cases and probably a higher percentage of the new cases.

Wonder will that be a reason for people not going into the health sector?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 29, 2020, 07:43:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 29, 2020, 07:33:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 29, 2020, 07:02:55 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 29, 2020, 06:08:55 PM
Can anyone answering me this - we went into lockdown at the end of March, say 30 days ago, and the virus has 14 day risk period - should we not be seeing much lower figures than we are in terms of new cases?  I'm getting increasingly pessimistic that this virus is very stubborn and has still plenty of fight left in it.  Where are these new cases coming from if we are spending most of our time in the house?

Very much so.

Lockdown as it stands at the moment is not working as well as we would hope. How new cases are occurring is something that needs to be ascertained ASAP.

Are shops the common factor?
Health workers are now about 25% of all cases and probably a higher percentage of the new cases.

How are the hospitals surviving with the no of staff down?

I was reading earlier that Dybala (Juve player) is still positive for it six weeks after his initial diagnosis.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omaghjoe on April 29, 2020, 07:52:03 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 29, 2020, 07:31:06 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 29, 2020, 06:26:26 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 29, 2020, 06:23:21 PM
Seafoid must get paid for sharing news articles

He loves it

Who's forcing anyone to read them? What can be wrong with providing access to further information on the subject of a thread? Do you complain that there are too many books in your local library?

Seafoid did you get a ticking off for copying and pasting those articles?

Only posting the links its no biggie but on the Brexit thread he would post the whole article, which was the equivalent of pulling out the books in the library and setting them on the floor.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hardy on April 29, 2020, 08:20:21 PM
I don't see the problem. How hard is it to skip what you don't want to read? Many of those articles would  be from sources most would not have subscriptions to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 29, 2020, 08:26:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 29, 2020, 07:43:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 29, 2020, 07:33:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 29, 2020, 07:02:55 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 29, 2020, 06:08:55 PM
Can anyone answering me this - we went into lockdown at the end of March, say 30 days ago, and the virus has 14 day risk period - should we not be seeing much lower figures than we are in terms of new cases?  I'm getting increasingly pessimistic that this virus is very stubborn and has still plenty of fight left in it.  Where are these new cases coming from if we are spending most of our time in the house?

Very much so.

Lockdown as it stands at the moment is not working as well as we would hope. How new cases are occurring is something that needs to be ascertained ASAP.

Are shops the common factor?
Health workers are now about 25% of all cases and probably a higher percentage of the new cases.

How are the hospitals surviving with the no of staff down?

I was reading earlier that Dybala (Juve player) is still positive for it six weeks after his initial diagnosis.

In China they were finding people testing positive twice up to a month later but showing no symptoms the second time round.

Anyhow, the yanks seem so some positive news on a treatment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 29, 2020, 08:43:04 PM
They've (yanks) so many cases cause their tests are soooo much better that the rest of the world
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 29, 2020, 08:58:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 29, 2020, 08:20:21 PM
I don't see the problem. How hard is it to skip what you don't want to read? Many of those articles would  be from sources most would not have subscriptions to.
+1. I don't see the issue. Though when he posts several I would like it if he rated them in order, so I could just go straight to the best article. We don't all have time to read them all!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aaron Boone on April 29, 2020, 09:22:07 PM
Dow Jones Index up over 2% today, has been quietly rising since the mid-March crash. They must be looking long-term.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 29, 2020, 09:41:44 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 29, 2020, 08:20:21 PM
I don't see the problem. How hard is it to skip what you don't want to read? Many of those articles would  be from sources most would not have subscriptions to.

Many sites, including the FT and the New York Times have made the virus articles free.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 30, 2020, 07:44:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 29, 2020, 08:43:04 PM
They've (yanks) so many cases cause their tests are soooo much better that the rest of the world

The tests are beautiful, ask anybody. I know more about tests than probably anybody.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on April 30, 2020, 09:49:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 29, 2020, 07:43:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 29, 2020, 07:33:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 29, 2020, 07:02:55 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 29, 2020, 06:08:55 PM
Can anyone answering me this - we went into lockdown at the end of March, say 30 days ago, and the virus has 14 day risk period - should we not be seeing much lower figures than we are in terms of new cases?  I'm getting increasingly pessimistic that this virus is very stubborn and has still plenty of fight left in it.  Where are these new cases coming from if we are spending most of our time in the house?

Very much so.

Lockdown as it stands at the moment is not working as well as we would hope. How new cases are occurring is something that needs to be ascertained ASAP.

Are shops the common factor?
Health workers are now about 25% of all cases and probably a higher percentage of the new cases.

How are the hospitals surviving with the no of staff down?

I was reading earlier that Dybala (Juve player) is still positive for it six weeks after his initial diagnosis.

The hospitals are exceptionally quiet, majority of staff have very little to do; Appointments cancelled and A & E down to a fraction of attendees. That's according to 4 friends who all work in different hospitals over here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on April 30, 2020, 10:00:09 AM
Germans seem to be putting the breaks on opening up again as the number of new cases has risen in the last 4 days, meanwhile in the states Trump wants to hold election rallies with 25000 people at them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 30, 2020, 10:07:39 AM
Quote from: Square Ball on April 30, 2020, 10:00:09 AM
Germans seem to be putting the breaks on opening up again as the number of new cases has risen in the last 4 days, meanwhile in the states Trump wants to hold election rallies with 25000 people at them

Yes, I saw that. Infections going up.

Might need the vaccine before things open up!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 30, 2020, 10:19:08 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/garden-centres-and-churches-could-soon-reopen-in-northern-ireland-as-part-of-gradual-exit-from-coronavirus-lockdown-39169090.html

Garden centre Unionism.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 30, 2020, 10:36:23 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 30, 2020, 10:19:08 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/garden-centres-and-churches-could-soon-reopen-in-northern-ireland-as-part-of-gradual-exit-from-coronavirus-lockdown-39169090.html

Garden centre Unionism.

Just putting it out there but the local garden centre to me is owned by a DUP supporting Free Presbyterian!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 30, 2020, 11:06:09 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 30, 2020, 09:49:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 29, 2020, 07:43:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 29, 2020, 07:33:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 29, 2020, 07:02:55 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 29, 2020, 06:08:55 PM
Can anyone answering me this - we went into lockdown at the end of March, say 30 days ago, and the virus has 14 day risk period - should we not be seeing much lower figures than we are in terms of new cases?  I'm getting increasingly pessimistic that this virus is very stubborn and has still plenty of fight left in it.  Where are these new cases coming from if we are spending most of our time in the house?

Very much so.

Lockdown as it stands at the moment is not working as well as we would hope. How new cases are occurring is something that needs to be ascertained ASAP.

Are shops the common factor?
Health workers are now about 25% of all cases and probably a higher percentage of the new cases.

How are the hospitals surviving with the no of staff down?

I was reading earlier that Dybala (Juve player) is still positive for it six weeks after his initial diagnosis.

The hospitals are exceptionally quiet, majority of staff have very little to do; Appointments cancelled and A & E down to a fraction of attendees. That's according to 4 friends who all work in different hospitals over here.
Professor McConkey said they expected to have a 25% absentee rate when the virus took hold and their plans were based on that premise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 30, 2020, 11:58:10 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 30, 2020, 10:19:08 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/garden-centres-and-churches-could-soon-reopen-in-northern-ireland-as-part-of-gradual-exit-from-coronavirus-lockdown-39169090.html

Garden centre Unionism.

Flower Pot Loyal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 30, 2020, 12:02:14 PM
Churches probably missing the money.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 30, 2020, 12:03:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 30, 2020, 12:02:14 PM
Churches probably missing the money.

Sure most are DD's at this stage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 30, 2020, 12:16:51 PM
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/30/uk/britain-coronavirus-missteps-boris-johnson-analysis-gbr-intl/index.html

Good read. Very good read.

Where are the BBC?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 12:22:24 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 30, 2020, 12:16:51 PM
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/30/uk/britain-coronavirus-missteps-boris-johnson-analysis-gbr-intl/index.html

Good read. Very good read.

Where are the BBC?

You know rightly.

The Govt will look back and cling to the fact they didn't precede over the NHS getting overrun. It'll be a victory they will hold on to long after the dust settles despite the many failings alongside it we can all rhyme off.

Kinda like the Iraq war, ah well we were wrong about the Weapons of Mass Destruction...but sure we got a bad many out anyway so that's a win.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 30, 2020, 12:39:33 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 30, 2020, 12:16:51 PM
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/30/uk/britain-coronavirus-missteps-boris-johnson-analysis-gbr-intl/index.html

Good read. Very good read.

Where are the BBC?

Good article. Highlighting exactly what I have been saying. Vallance and Whitty cannot be trusted. Two complete frauds, promoted far beyond their capabilities. They don't know what they are doing. They are risking thousands of peoples lives.
There's not much point in "following the science" if it's fundamentally flawed. The UK and local government here are at best incompetent at worst they're actually trying to cull people.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 30, 2020, 12:44:49 PM
I'd like to see the meeting minutes from all the SAGE meetings.

If the govt were "following scientific advice", surely they'd have nothing to fear from publishing those minutes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 30, 2020, 01:01:17 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 30, 2020, 12:44:49 PM
I'd like to see the meeting minutes from all the SAGE meetings.

If the govt were "following scientific advice", surely they'd have nothing to fear from publishing those minutes.

Following the science came from the same place as Get Brexit done and take back control.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aaron Boone on April 30, 2020, 01:23:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 30, 2020, 01:01:17 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 30, 2020, 12:44:49 PM
I'd like to see the meeting minutes from all the SAGE meetings.

If the govt were "following scientific advice", surely they'd have nothing to fear from publishing those minutes.

Following the science came from the same place as Get Brexit done and take back control.
Brexit also took out the broad church of Conservative MP thinking. The likes of Raab, Patel and Johnson are Brexit-diehards and run the show along with Cummings. Meanwhile, experienced MP's like Jeremy Hunt & Sajid David sit on the backbenches, other slike Gauke and Hammond no longer MP's.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on April 30, 2020, 01:24:38 PM
Mary Lou McDonald on RTE (Today with S.O'R),  was asked would she agree to nordie day trippers being turned back if stopped  by Gardai, should they not be able to provide evidence of just purpose?  Mary Lou replied an emphatic yes, they should be turned back. S.O'R. asked her "was this not being partitionist?" ;D
Apparently having an opinion that there should be a coordinated  cross border response to imposed social movement restrictions, whether legal or voluntary, is perceived in some quarters as partitionist. Not necessarily S.O'R as he was just asking the question.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 30, 2020, 01:29:17 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on April 30, 2020, 01:23:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 30, 2020, 01:01:17 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 30, 2020, 12:44:49 PM
I'd like to see the meeting minutes from all the SAGE meetings.

If the govt were "following scientific advice", surely they'd have nothing to fear from publishing those minutes.

Following the science came from the same place as Get Brexit done and take back control.
Brexit also took out the broad church of Conservative MP thinking. The likes of Raab, Patel and Johnson are Brexit-diehards and run the show along with Cummings. Meanwhile, experienced MP's like Jeremy Hunt & Sajid David sit on the backbenches, other slike Gauke and Hammond no longer MP's.

Raab is such a condescending p***k with no ability to show empathy. Patel cut from similar cloth.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 30, 2020, 01:31:32 PM
I hear IBEC and the CBI have written to Leo and ArleneMichelle calling for a co ordinated approach to tackling the Virus and associated matters.
With a Caretaker Government here and the Executive not acting as a single body it will be hard to agree anything.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 30, 2020, 02:03:26 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 30, 2020, 10:07:39 AM
Quote from: Square Ball on April 30, 2020, 10:00:09 AM
Germans seem to be putting the breaks on opening up again as the number of new cases has risen in the last 4 days, meanwhile in the states Trump wants to hold election rallies with 25000 people at them

Yes, I saw that. Infections going up.

Might need the vaccine before things open up!!
I think so too. No return back to normality without a vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 30, 2020, 02:05:31 PM
Normal has to be redefined really. I don't know we ever go back to normal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2020, 02:32:51 PM
Quote from: Main Street on April 30, 2020, 01:24:38 PM
Mary Lou McDonald on RTE (Today with S.O'R),  was asked would she agree to nordie day trippers being turned back if stopped  by Gardai, should they not be able to provide evidence of just purpose?  Mary Lou replied an emphatic yes, they should be turned back. S.O'R. asked her "was this not being partitionist?" ;D
Apparently having an opinion that there should be a coordinated  cross border response to imposed social movement restrictions, whether legal or voluntary, is perceived in some quarters as partitionist. Not necessarily S.O'R as he was just asking the question.

On the drink early today freestater?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on April 30, 2020, 02:39:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 30, 2020, 02:03:26 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 30, 2020, 10:07:39 AM
Quote from: Square Ball on April 30, 2020, 10:00:09 AM
Germans seem to be putting the breaks on opening up again as the number of new cases has risen in the last 4 days, meanwhile in the states Trump wants to hold election rallies with 25000 people at them

Yes, I saw that. Infections going up.

Might need the vaccine before things open up!!
I think so too. No return back to normality without a vaccine.
Between viral vector, protein based, nucleic acid and weakened/inactivated virus there are 90 different vaccines being worked on. Gotta hope some come through.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 30, 2020, 02:44:32 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/3s5sDWb/112039418-usenewthesunfrontpage30-04-2020.jpg)

Meanwhile, in Britain, man celebrates birthday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on April 30, 2020, 02:54:00 PM
 :D
Quote from: LeoMc on April 30, 2020, 02:39:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 30, 2020, 02:03:26 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 30, 2020, 10:07:39 AM
Quote from: Square Ball on April 30, 2020, 10:00:09 AM
Germans seem to be putting the breaks on opening up again as the number of new cases has risen in the last 4 days, meanwhile in the states Trump wants to hold election rallies with 25000 people at them

Yes, I saw that. Infections going up.

Might need the vaccine before things open up!!
I think so too. No return back to normality without a vaccine.
Between viral vector, protein based, nucleic acid and weakened/inactivated virus there are 90 different vaccines being worked on. Gotta hope some come through.

The Oxford one seems to be the horse a lot are betting on and a new partnership has been struck with one of the big manufacturers.
BBC News - Coronavirus: AstraZeneca teams up with Oxford University on vaccine
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52483359
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on April 30, 2020, 03:26:13 PM
Was listening to Frank Mitchell earlier on and he was saying that hairdressers are doing homers, are they nuts? Let's face it, where are they going with their new hair do? Seriously what the fook is wrong with people?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 30, 2020, 03:30:41 PM
 ;D
Quote from: Square Ball on April 30, 2020, 03:26:13 PM
Was listening to Frank Mitchell earlier on and he was saying that hairdressers are doing homers, are they nuts? Let's face it, where are they going with their new hair do? Seriously what the fook is wrong with people?

Not the ones I know.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on April 30, 2020, 03:53:42 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 30, 2020, 03:30:41 PM
;D
Quote from: Square Ball on April 30, 2020, 03:26:13 PM
Was listening to Frank Mitchell earlier on and he was saying that hairdressers are doing homers, are they nuts? Let's face it, where are they going with their new hair do? Seriously what the fook is wrong with people?

Not the ones I know.

I've heard of one doing it. Actually going out house to house to do them. Crazy stuff.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on April 30, 2020, 04:24:53 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 30, 2020, 03:53:42 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 30, 2020, 03:30:41 PM
;D
Quote from: Square Ball on April 30, 2020, 03:26:13 PM
Was listening to Frank Mitchell earlier on and he was saying that hairdressers are doing homers, are they nuts? Let's face it, where are they going with their new hair do? Seriously what the fook is wrong with people?

Not the ones I know.

I've heard of one doing it. Actually going out house to house to do them. Crazy stuff.
Or the ones I know, but fella in work showed me a text from his barber saying he was doing house calls. It so selfish, not to mention dangerous. Also noticed a lot more cars on the Ormeau Road last night than there has been in a while, no idea why
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2020, 04:26:47 PM
I've heard reports of certain establishments opening up on the quiet to trusted....regulars shall we say.

I don't agree with it, but you'd need to have your head in the sand if you think one's out there aren't trying to profit away.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on April 30, 2020, 06:39:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 30, 2020, 02:05:31 PM
Normal has to be redefined really. I don't know we ever go back to normal.

Could you elaborate on that , what normal things do you think will never return ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: the goal was on on April 30, 2020, 06:40:14 PM
Plenty of businesses that furloughed workers have them back working this week. Making money out of the crisis.These businesses deserve to be called out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2020, 06:42:10 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on April 30, 2020, 06:40:14 PM
Plenty of businesses that furloughed workers have them back working this week. Making money out of the crisis.These businesses deserve to be called out.

There will be an audit done for sure and fines carried out, some employers are thick
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 30, 2020, 06:51:23 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on April 30, 2020, 06:40:14 PM
Plenty of businesses that furloughed workers have them back working this week. Making money out of the crisis.These businesses deserve to be called out.
I presume you'll be reporting them to the relevant authorities?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omaghjoe on April 30, 2020, 07:09:43 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 30, 2020, 06:39:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 30, 2020, 02:05:31 PM
Normal has to be redefined really. I don't know we ever go back to normal.

Could you elaborate on that , what normal things do you think will never return ?

I fairly confident that my favourite passtime of double dipping is going to be punishable by lynching at future parties
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 30, 2020, 07:14:07 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 30, 2020, 06:39:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 30, 2020, 02:05:31 PM
Normal has to be redefined really. I don't know we ever go back to normal.

Could you elaborate on that , what normal things do you think will never return ?

I don't think air travel will ever be as accessible again. Not for years anyway.

There will be paranoia around large gatherings.

I don't think pubs will recover for a long time - definitely the smaller ones.

There's probably a serious increase in taxation coming north or south.

Attitudes as well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2020, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 30, 2020, 07:14:07 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 30, 2020, 06:39:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 30, 2020, 02:05:31 PM
Normal has to be redefined really. I don't know we ever go back to normal.

Could you elaborate on that , what normal things do you think will never return ?

I don't think air travel will ever be as accessible again. Not for years anyway.

There will be paranoia around large gatherings.

I don't think pubs will recover for a long time - definitely the smaller ones.

There's probably a serious increase in taxation coming north or south.

Attitudes as well.

The Covid tax, Christ the night. As long as they tax those rich cnuts to high dough!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omaghjoe on April 30, 2020, 07:21:17 PM
 Prevalence of Dermatitis gonna be high
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on April 30, 2020, 08:32:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 30, 2020, 06:51:23 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on April 30, 2020, 06:40:14 PM
Plenty of businesses that furloughed workers have them back working this week. Making money out of the crisis.These businesses deserve to be called out.
I presume you'll be reporting them to the relevant authorities?

Presumably yes. The scumbaggery of being on the take right now deserves to be outed.

The Tories have a massive majority and there will be scrutiny in House of Commons debates but precious little in the votes. The Tories could pass whatever legislation they bloody like including blood curdling punishments for the breach of the legislation that they will want to portray as the saviour of the nation. By the time it comes round to prosecuting any breach the punishments could be quite draconian
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2020, 11:01:03 PM
Can't believe I am hearing garden centres and churches in the same sentence for reopening! WTF
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on April 30, 2020, 11:10:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2020, 11:01:03 PM
Can't believe I am hearing garden centres and churches in the same sentence for reopening! WTF

I think Mr. Poots was pushing for it - Mallon and others strongly against it.

Crazy stuff.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 30, 2020, 11:37:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2020, 11:01:03 PM
Can't believe I am hearing garden centres and churches in the same sentence for reopening! WTF
It'll only be Prod ones.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2020, 11:44:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 30, 2020, 11:37:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2020, 11:01:03 PM
Can't believe I am hearing garden centres and churches in the same sentence for reopening! WTF
It'll only be Prod ones.

Garden centres?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on May 01, 2020, 12:40:56 AM
See on news here a guy developed a uvc portal that destroys 99% of viruses and pathogens , it's
Like a metal detector you stand for 20 seconds and the light is all around hits you and does not penetrate the skin . Looks promising for bars/restaurants in short term , $17000 for year he says and he must have a lot ready to go .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on May 01, 2020, 12:59:34 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 01, 2020, 12:40:56 AM
See on news here a guy developed a uvc portal that destroys 99% of viruses and pathogens , it's
Like a metal detector you stand for 20 seconds and the light is all around hits you and does not penetrate the skin . Looks promising for bars/restaurants in short term , $17000 for year he says and he must have a lot ready to go .

Supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that hasn't been checked but you're going to test it.
And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way... And I think you said you're going to test that, too. Sounds interesting.

I'm not a doctor. But I'm, like, a person that has a good you-know-what.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 01, 2020, 01:08:27 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 01, 2020, 12:59:34 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 01, 2020, 12:40:56 AM
See on news here a guy developed a uvc portal that destroys 99% of viruses and pathogens , it's
Like a metal detector you stand for 20 seconds and the light is all around hits you and does not penetrate the skin . Looks promising for bars/restaurants in short term , $17000 for year he says and he must have a lot ready to go .

Supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that hasn't been checked but you're going to test it.
And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way... And I think you said you're going to test that, too. Sounds interesting.

I'm not a doctor. But I'm, like, a person that has a good you-know-what.


(https://i.giphy.com/media/6L015gMEW3pFC/giphy.webp)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on May 01, 2020, 01:08:40 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 01, 2020, 12:59:34 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 01, 2020, 12:40:56 AM
See on news here a guy developed a uvc portal that destroys 99% of viruses and pathogens , it's
Like a metal detector you stand for 20 seconds and the light is all around hits you and does not penetrate the skin . Looks promising for bars/restaurants in short term , $17000 for year he says and he must have a lot ready to go .

Supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that hasn't been checked but you're going to test it.
And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way... And I think you said you're going to test that, too. Sounds interesting.

I'm not a doctor. But I'm, like, a person that has a good you-know-what.
that didn't take long , something extra a business could use as well as masks and social distancing to increase confidence in the public
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on May 01, 2020, 01:26:25 AM
Quote from: Ambrose on April 02, 2020, 12:33:22 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 01, 2020, 11:53:38 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on April 01, 2020, 11:51:04 PM
Personally I hope the north has ten times more deaths than the south. Already the GB approach is coming in for criticism even from the Daily Telegraph and yet Arlene decided to blindly follow what they did. I'm listening to the advice I'm getting has been the standard response to this. Now where did I hear that before?

Wow. Just f**king wow.

Oh dear.

Was Dougie shown a red card after his little outburst, he's been very quiet since.

I normally wouldn't comment on such posts, but the bould Dougie if the first to jump on any trangsression by anyone else.

Anyway I hope you are keeping well Doug in these troubling times, thankfully the north isn't having quite as many deaths as you hoped for.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dec on May 01, 2020, 01:41:11 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 01, 2020, 01:08:40 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 01, 2020, 12:59:34 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 01, 2020, 12:40:56 AM
See on news here a guy developed a uvc portal that destroys 99% of viruses and pathogens , it's
Like a metal detector you stand for 20 seconds and the light is all around hits you and does not penetrate the skin . Looks promising for bars/restaurants in short term , $17000 for year he says and he must have a lot ready to go .

Supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that hasn't been checked but you're going to test it.
And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way... And I think you said you're going to test that, too. Sounds interesting.

I'm not a doctor. But I'm, like, a person that has a good you-know-what.
that didn't take long , something extra a business could use as well as masks and social distancing to increase confidence in the public

It would kill viruses on the surface, but if someone has caught the virus it would not help.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on May 01, 2020, 01:45:39 AM
Quote from: dec on May 01, 2020, 01:41:11 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 01, 2020, 01:08:40 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 01, 2020, 12:59:34 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 01, 2020, 12:40:56 AM
See on news here a guy developed a uvc portal that destroys 99% of viruses and pathogens , it's
Like a metal detector you stand for 20 seconds and the light is all around hits you and does not penetrate the skin . Looks promising for bars/restaurants in short term , $17000 for year he says and he must have a lot ready to go .

Supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light — and I think you said that hasn't been checked but you're going to test it.
And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way... And I think you said you're going to test that, too. Sounds interesting.

I'm not a doctor. But I'm, like, a person that has a good you-know-what.
that didn't take long , something extra a business could use as well as masks and social distancing to increase confidence in the public

It would kill viruses on the surface, but if someone has caught the virus it would not help.
of course but if we have been locked in for 2 months we shouldn't have it anyway, it's more of a confidence boost especially for offices or bars and restaurants.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on May 01, 2020, 07:57:57 AM
Quote from: Square Ball on April 30, 2020, 02:54:00 PM
:D
Quote from: LeoMc on April 30, 2020, 02:39:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 30, 2020, 02:03:26 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 30, 2020, 10:07:39 AM
Quote from: Square Ball on April 30, 2020, 10:00:09 AM
Germans seem to be putting the breaks on opening up again as the number of new cases has risen in the last 4 days, meanwhile in the states Trump wants to hold election rallies with 25000 people at them

Yes, I saw that. Infections going up.

Might need the vaccine before things open up!!
I think so too. No return back to normality without a vaccine.
Between viral vector, protein based, nucleic acid and weakened/inactivated virus there are 90 different vaccines being worked on. Gotta hope some come through.

The Oxford one seems to be the horse a lot are betting on and a new partnership has been struck with one of the big manufacturers.
BBC News - Coronavirus: AstraZeneca teams up with Oxford University on vaccine
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52483359
There are about 26 vital vector vaccines being worked on, including the likes of J&J. I wonder is this one getting hyped as it is a British University and a British Pharma company. Boris' answer to Donald's tremendous malaria drugs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 01, 2020, 08:35:46 AM
Two firsts here. Unbelievably I agree with Peirs Morgan and something that's been written in the Daily Mail
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8275365/PIERS-MORGAN-Boris-boast-wants-death-toll-tells-real-story.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8275365/PIERS-MORGAN-Boris-boast-wants-death-toll-tells-real-story.html)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 01, 2020, 09:06:17 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 01, 2020, 07:57:57 AM
Quote from: Square Ball on April 30, 2020, 02:54:00 PM
:D
Quote from: LeoMc on April 30, 2020, 02:39:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 30, 2020, 02:03:26 PM
Quote from: marty34 on April 30, 2020, 10:07:39 AM
Quote from: Square Ball on April 30, 2020, 10:00:09 AM
Germans seem to be putting the breaks on opening up again as the number of new cases has risen in the last 4 days, meanwhile in the states Trump wants to hold election rallies with 25000 people at them

Yes, I saw that. Infections going up.

Might need the vaccine before things open up!!
I think so too. No return back to normality without a vaccine.
Between viral vector, protein based, nucleic acid and weakened/inactivated virus there are 90 different vaccines being worked on. Gotta hope some come through.

The Oxford one seems to be the horse a lot are betting on and a new partnership has been struck with one of the big manufacturers.
BBC News - Coronavirus: AstraZeneca teams up with Oxford University on vaccine
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52483359
There are about 26 vital vector vaccines being worked on, including the likes of J&J. I wonder is this one getting hyped as it is a British University and a British Pharma company. Boris' answer to Donald's tremendous malaria drugs.
AZ are a leading manufacturer of respiratory medicines.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 01, 2020, 09:24:12 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 01, 2020, 08:35:46 AM
Two firsts here. Unbelievably I agree with Peirs Morgan and something that's been written in the Daily Mail
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8275365/PIERS-MORGAN-Boris-boast-wants-death-toll-tells-real-story.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8275365/PIERS-MORGAN-Boris-boast-wants-death-toll-tells-real-story.html)

Felt a bit dirty there clicking on that link but he's bang on in a lot of it.

He'll get savaged by the loyal Daily Mail readership who're pro Boris to the balls.

now to see what the Kardashians are up to on that sidebar................    8)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 01, 2020, 09:26:11 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 01, 2020, 08:35:46 AM
Two firsts here. Unbelievably I agree with Peirs Morgan and something that's been written in the Daily Mail
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8275365/PIERS-MORGAN-Boris-boast-wants-death-toll-tells-real-story.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8275365/PIERS-MORGAN-Boris-boast-wants-death-toll-tells-real-story.html)

Hard to argue with that, hindsight is wonderful but there has been some serious mistakes, I'd love to have seen the plan Britain had for a pandemic and why it wasn't put in place
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on May 01, 2020, 09:33:23 AM
The UK ran a flu pandemic full scale training exercise in 2016. The results were never published due to the severity of the outcome. PPE  stocks were allowed to slide by 40 % in the past two years due to funding cuts .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 01, 2020, 09:36:14 AM
Quote from: delgany on May 01, 2020, 09:33:23 AM
The UK ran a flu pandemic full scale training exercise in 2016. The results were never published due to the severity of the outcome. PPE  stocks were allowed to slide by 40 % in the past two years due to funding cuts .

So possibly 3 and a half years ago the findings showed that they were inept and did nothing to fix it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 01, 2020, 09:40:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 01, 2020, 09:36:14 AM
Quote from: delgany on May 01, 2020, 09:33:23 AM
The UK ran a flu pandemic full scale training exercise in 2016. The results were never published due to the severity of the outcome. PPE  stocks were allowed to slide by 40 % in the past two years due to funding cuts .

So possibly 3 and a half years ago the findings showed that they were inept and did nothing to fix it?

They never were going to, realistically - every Govt. operates on the basis that disaster won't happen to them....unfortunately on this occasion it did.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 01, 2020, 09:53:49 AM
Just reading here that Trump has seen evidence that the virus originated in a lab but the US Intelligence services have said that isn't the case.

Trump using this as a way to avoid debt repayment to China? Trump spouting anything to save himself? Or maybe worse....Trump with absolutely no tact in his body saying publicly what they are saying privately in the intelligence game? Hardly likely to be last on this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 01, 2020, 09:54:17 AM
In Britain's case it couldn't have happened to a nicer government.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 01, 2020, 10:08:25 AM
It has been confirmed that almost 50% of deaths in Northern Ireland have been in care homes. Surely with all the information coming out from Italy etc before it hit here that the elderly would be the worst affected and care homes would need to really be looked after first. Poor poor governance again.
The WHO have now applauded Sweden's no lockdown strategy
Schools return will rise the r rate from 0.6 to 0.7
But it's all ok because we all clapped last night
Michelle Arlene and the rest getting the videos up on social media clapping at 8
Keep up the clapping it's really helping
I seen on UTV live around 100 people clapping out and around a care home with the elderly outside
Photographers and Cameramen all over the place
Am I missing something here
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 01, 2020, 10:28:39 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 01, 2020, 10:08:25 AM
It has been confirmed that almost 50% of deaths in Northern Ireland have been in care homes. Surely with all the information coming out from Italy etc before it hit here that the elderly would be the worst affected and care homes would need to really be looked after first. Poor poor governance again.
The WHO have now applauded Sweden's no lockdown strategy
Schools return will rise the r rate from 0.6 to 0.7
But it's all ok because we all clapped last night
Michelle Arlene and the rest getting the videos up on social media clapping at 8
Keep up the clapping it's really helping
I seen on UTV live around 100 people clapping out and around a care home with the elderly outside
Photographers and Cameramen all over the place
Am I missing something here

Are care home owners getting away with alot here in terms of not providing their staff with PPE?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 01, 2020, 10:33:25 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 01, 2020, 10:28:39 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 01, 2020, 10:08:25 AM
It has been confirmed that almost 50% of deaths in Northern Ireland have been in care homes. Surely with all the information coming out from Italy etc before it hit here that the elderly would be the worst affected and care homes would need to really be looked after first. Poor poor governance again.
The WHO have now applauded Sweden's no lockdown strategy
Schools return will rise the r rate from 0.6 to 0.7
But it's all ok because we all clapped last night
Michelle Arlene and the rest getting the videos up on social media clapping at 8
Keep up the clapping it's really helping
I seen on UTV live around 100 people clapping out and around a care home with the elderly outside
Photographers and Cameramen all over the place
Am I missing something here

Are care home owners getting away with alot here in terms of not providing their staff with PPE?

In years to come you might see some kind of legal action going their way alright, I could see them being a very easy target when the dust settles.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 01, 2020, 10:34:44 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 01, 2020, 10:28:39 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 01, 2020, 10:08:25 AM
It has been confirmed that almost 50% of deaths in Northern Ireland have been in care homes. Surely with all the information coming out from Italy etc before it hit here that the elderly would be the worst affected and care homes would need to really be looked after first. Poor poor governance again.
The WHO have now applauded Sweden's no lockdown strategy
Schools return will rise the r rate from 0.6 to 0.7
But it's all ok because we all clapped last night
Michelle Arlene and the rest getting the videos up on social media clapping at 8
Keep up the clapping it's really helping
I seen on UTV live around 100 people clapping out and around a care home with the elderly outside
Photographers and Cameramen all over the place
Am I missing something here

Are care home owners getting away with alot here in terms of not providing their staff with PPE?

I'd value some common sense here. I really would.

I'm sure we will have a very expensive public enquiry about this in future, which will ultimately determine that if the purpose of a care home is to make the final years of life more bearable for less-abled pensioners, then a virus that is especially lethal for less-abled people in their final years of life, will always have its wicked way in such places, no matter what measures you take.

Waste of money enquiry.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 01, 2020, 10:37:13 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 01, 2020, 10:28:39 AM
Are care home owners getting away with alot here in terms of not providing their staff with PPE?

Maybe., some were penny pinching. But when the government ordered all PPE to be directed to hospitals in some cases they prohibited suppliers from selling stuff to homes. Likewise in some cases they recruited nurses from homes back into the health service.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 01, 2020, 10:38:08 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 01, 2020, 10:08:25 AM
The WHO have now applauded Sweden's no lockdown strategy
Schools return will rise the r rate from 0.6 to 0.7
Am I missing something here

Dunno if your missing something, but I'm definitely missing two citations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 01, 2020, 10:41:11 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 01, 2020, 10:33:25 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 01, 2020, 10:28:39 AM
Are care home owners getting away with alot here in terms of not providing their staff with PPE?

In years to come you might see some kind of legal action going their way alright, I could see them being a very easy target when the dust settles.

In which case the government are even more culpable to being sued.

They deliberately forced through a designation change for COVID-19 so that they could get away with less stringent PPE requirements.

100+ dead healthcare workers and counting... I'd say they are wide open to a massive compensation claim from all families affected. Hancock offers £60k? Might wanna stick two zeroes on the end of that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 01, 2020, 10:47:24 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 01, 2020, 10:41:11 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 01, 2020, 10:33:25 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 01, 2020, 10:28:39 AM
Are care home owners getting away with alot here in terms of not providing their staff with PPE?

In years to come you might see some kind of legal action going their way alright, I could see them being a very easy target when the dust settles.

In which case the government are even more culpable to being sued.

They deliberately forced through a designation change for COVID-19 so that they could get away with less stringent PPE requirements.

100+ dead healthcare workers and counting... I'd say they are wide open to a massive compensation claim from all families affected. Hancock offers £60k? Might wanna stick two zeroes on the end of that.

The government won't be sued.

The absolutely unnecessary public enquiry into care homes during this time, will determine nobody to blame.

Nobody will win.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 01, 2020, 10:50:27 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 01, 2020, 10:47:24 AM
The government won't be sued.

The absolutely unnecessary public enquiry into care homes during this time, will determine nobody to blame.

Nobody will win.

I'm envisaging a civil action outside a public enquiry - which as you say - are just a monumental waste of money.

We've seen enough of them here over the years to know they are a washout.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 01, 2020, 10:55:29 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 01, 2020, 10:50:27 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 01, 2020, 10:47:24 AM
The government won't be sued.

The absolutely unnecessary public enquiry into care homes during this time, will determine nobody to blame.

Nobody will win.

I'm envisaging a civil action outside a public enquiry - which as you say - are just a monumental waste of money.

We've seen enough of them here over the years to know they are a washout.

But for a civil action to stand a chance then they would need evidence that if government / care home owners had operated differently, then these people would have lived longer.

Such evidence would have to be modelled against the spread of the virus in the country / region ie comparing NZ's care home approach would make no sense, as the spread was more tightly contained across the country.

I just can't see how anyone will be able to pull together the evidence to make that case.

And if I'm being honest, it's no bad thing. Sometimes there isn't actually anyone to blame. It's just life.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 01, 2020, 10:57:30 AM
Are the schools open in Sweden?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on May 01, 2020, 11:00:11 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 01, 2020, 09:40:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 01, 2020, 09:36:14 AM
Quote from: delgany on May 01, 2020, 09:33:23 AM
The UK ran a flu pandemic full scale training exercise in 2016. The results were never published due to the severity of the outcome. PPE  stocks were allowed to slide by 40 % in the past two years due to funding cuts .

So possibly 3 and a half years ago the findings showed that they were inept and did nothing to fix it?

They never were going to, realistically - every Govt. operates on the basis that disaster won't happen to them....unfortunately on this occasion it did.

Exercise cygnus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 01, 2020, 11:01:01 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 01, 2020, 10:57:30 AM
Are the schools open in Sweden?

Yes, work with a few people over there. Pretty much everything is normal but they are given the social distancing education, over 70s are encouraged to keep themselves inside.

Bars / Restaurants open with restricted numbers, that kind of thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 01, 2020, 11:13:02 AM
Our own local government not beyond fault either. 3 years of no gov has left NHS locally vastly under prepared, coupled with lack of Nursing staff due to poor pay and conditions (Poots and O'Neill oversaw those cuts). Followed up by complete incompetence, blindly following Britain and McBride the CMO here. Lack of testing. Lack of leadership.
But as is the NI way we will reward and promote this incompetence then moan about the DUP or SF rather than taking responsibility and changing our vote.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on May 01, 2020, 11:23:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 01, 2020, 11:13:02 AM
Our own local government not beyond fault either. 3 years of no gov has left NHS locally vastly under prepared, coupled with lack of Nursing staff due to poor pay and conditions (Poots and O'Neill oversaw those cuts). Followed up by complete incompetence, blindly following Britain and McBride the CMO here. Lack of testing. Lack of leadership.
But as is the NI way we will reward and promote this incompetence then moan about the DUP or SF rather than taking responsibility and changing our vote.

I assume you very much supported Michelle O'Neill and other Sinn Féin minisiters when they questioned and disagreed with the blind following of the Tory government and "medical science" at the very beginning of this process? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 01, 2020, 11:47:23 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 01, 2020, 10:47:24 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 01, 2020, 10:41:11 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 01, 2020, 10:33:25 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 01, 2020, 10:28:39 AM
Are care home owners getting away with alot here in terms of not providing their staff with PPE?

In years to come you might see some kind of legal action going their way alright, I could see them being a very easy target when the dust settles.

In which case the government are even more culpable to being sued.

They deliberately forced through a designation change for COVID-19 so that they could get away with less stringent PPE requirements.

100+ dead healthcare workers and counting... I'd say they are wide open to a massive compensation claim from all families affected. Hancock offers £60k? Might wanna stick two zeroes on the end of that.

The government won't be sued.

The absolutely unnecessary public enquiry into care homes during this time, will determine nobody to blame.

Nobody will win.

Solicitors up and down the country will beg to differ on that point ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 01, 2020, 12:01:12 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on May 01, 2020, 11:23:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 01, 2020, 11:13:02 AM
Our own local government not beyond fault either. 3 years of no gov has left NHS locally vastly under prepared, coupled with lack of Nursing staff due to poor pay and conditions (Poots and O'Neill oversaw those cuts). Followed up by complete incompetence, blindly following Britain and McBride the CMO here. Lack of testing. Lack of leadership.
But as is the NI way we will reward and promote this incompetence then moan about the DUP or SF rather than taking responsibility and changing our vote.

I assume you very much supported Michelle O'Neill and other Sinn Féin minisiters when they questioned and disagreed with the blind following of the Tory government and "medical science" at the very beginning of this process?

I agree with what she said re closing schools and the SF position on herd immunity. I very much disagree with the way she did it. She made it into a political issue Nats v Unionist, when it should clearly have been a science issue. Remember on the Thursday evening she supported keeping schools open... on the Friday morning she wanted them closed. Not the leadership, but suppose she got their in the end.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 01, 2020, 12:23:03 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 01, 2020, 11:01:01 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 01, 2020, 10:57:30 AM
Are the schools open in Sweden?

Yes, work with a few people over there. Pretty much everything is normal but they are given the social distancing education, over 70s are encouraged to keep themselves inside.

Bars / Restaurants open with restricted numbers, that kind of thing.

I remember reading about 3 weeks ago that the pubs and restaurants were really struggling though with little or no customers. I wonder has that changed?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 01, 2020, 12:26:45 PM
The thing that annoys me about out political leaders is they stand in front of the tv cameras giving off that we need to stay at home and then post up 2 different photo opportunities of them standing outside a hospital. Now the photographer has taken 2 or 3 photos of them standing in different places as it shows that. Now hardly social distancing being applied. I know it's maybe nothing but it really is hypocrisy at the highest level. Do the job that you are meant to and that's not standing for photos outside a hospital.
Any thoughts on WHO saying Sweden have done a great job?
Also this week care homes are now up to 60%
Care homes 60%
Hospitals 40%

Agree with Wobbler care homes is a place for the elderly to enjoy and be comfortable in the final years that they have left and an enquiry into that is pointless. It was always going to hit them hard everyone could see that with the exception of our government who were to busy worrying about schools
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 01, 2020, 12:31:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 01, 2020, 12:01:12 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on May 01, 2020, 11:23:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 01, 2020, 11:13:02 AM
Our own local government not beyond fault either. 3 years of no gov has left NHS locally vastly under prepared, coupled with lack of Nursing staff due to poor pay and conditions (Poots and O'Neill oversaw those cuts). Followed up by complete incompetence, blindly following Britain and McBride the CMO here. Lack of testing. Lack of leadership.
But as is the NI way we will reward and promote this incompetence then moan about the DUP or SF rather than taking responsibility and changing our vote.

I assume you very much supported Michelle O'Neill and other Sinn Féin minisiters when they questioned and disagreed with the blind following of the Tory government and "medical science" at the very beginning of this process?

I agree with what she said re closing schools and the SF position on herd immunity. I very much disagree with the way she did it. She made it into a political issue Nats v Unionist, when it should clearly have been a science issue. Remember on the Thursday evening she supported keeping schools open... on the Friday morning she wanted them closed. Not the leadership, but suppose she got their in the end.

There was much made of that and the lack of unity in the executive in the local media but with Poots and Givan going on solo runs on opening Garden centres and churches less so. Strange that!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on May 01, 2020, 12:48:51 PM
Interesting article on death rates comparisons and "league tables"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/30/coronavirus-deaths-how-does-britain-compare-with-other-countries
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 01, 2020, 12:54:44 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 01, 2020, 12:23:03 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 01, 2020, 11:01:01 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 01, 2020, 10:57:30 AM
Are the schools open in Sweden?

Yes, work with a few people over there. Pretty much everything is normal but they are given the social distancing education, over 70s are encouraged to keep themselves inside.

Bars / Restaurants open with restricted numbers, that kind of thing.

I remember reading about 3 weeks ago that the pubs and restaurants were really struggling though with little or no customers. I wonder has that changed?

Can only go on primary source on Stockholm

From what I'm told people are still out and about as much, albeit obviously keeping distance etc. Gyms seem to be well down with people doing what they are doing here, running / walking.

Bars and restaurants are busy, but only at weekends and people tend to use it as a way of keeping some kind of normality rather than staying for extended periods of time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 01, 2020, 01:20:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 01, 2020, 11:47:23 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 01, 2020, 10:47:24 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 01, 2020, 10:41:11 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 01, 2020, 10:33:25 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 01, 2020, 10:28:39 AM
Are care home owners getting away with alot here in terms of not providing their staff with PPE?

In years to come you might see some kind of legal action going their way alright, I could see them being a very easy target when the dust settles.

In which case the government are even more culpable to being sued.

They deliberately forced through a designation change for COVID-19 so that they could get away with less stringent PPE requirements.

100+ dead healthcare workers and counting... I'd say they are wide open to a massive compensation claim from all families affected. Hancock offers £60k? Might wanna stick two zeroes on the end of that.

The government won't be sued.

The absolutely unnecessary public enquiry into care homes during this time, will determine nobody to blame.

Nobody will win.

Solicitors up and down the country will beg to differ on that point ;)

Until there is conclusive evidence to suggest that the actions of care homes contributed to a shortened lifespan for its residents, then a solicitor would have to treat these cases as no different to the death of an elderly person in a care home, prior to Covid.

Sue them? For what exactly?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on May 01, 2020, 01:25:15 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on May 01, 2020, 12:48:51 PM
Interesting article on death rates comparisons and "league tables"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/30/coronavirus-deaths-how-does-britain-compare-with-other-countries

Very good article and Prof Speigelhalter has been on the interview circuit since.

In yesterday's UK press briefing either CMO or CSA referenced the age adjusted deaths per capita being the ultimate retrospective test of how a country has done. Seems very sensible. But UK might still not look too good on that measure
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on May 01, 2020, 01:30:03 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 01, 2020, 01:20:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 01, 2020, 11:47:23 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 01, 2020, 10:47:24 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 01, 2020, 10:41:11 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 01, 2020, 10:33:25 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 01, 2020, 10:28:39 AM
Are care home owners getting away with alot here in terms of not providing their staff with PPE?

In years to come you might see some kind of legal action going their way alright, I could see them being a very easy target when the dust settles.

In which case the government are even more culpable to being sued.

They deliberately forced through a designation change for COVID-19 so that they could get away with less stringent PPE requirements.

100+ dead healthcare workers and counting... I'd say they are wide open to a massive compensation claim from all families affected. Hancock offers £60k? Might wanna stick two zeroes on the end of that.

The government won't be sued.

The absolutely unnecessary public enquiry into care homes during this time, will determine nobody to blame.

Nobody will win.

Solicitors up and down the country will beg to differ on that point ;)

Until there is conclusive evidence to suggest that the actions of care homes contributed to a shortened lifespan for its residents, then a solicitor would have to treat these cases as no different to the death of an elderly person in a care home, prior to Covid.

Sue them? For what exactly?

Well that is going to have to be looked at on a case by case basis.

If a death toll is high in a home just by virtue of the susceptibility of the residents and all reasonable steps were taken then there will be nothing to fear from inquiry or legal challenge.

If all reasonable steps are not taken then that would be a wholly different matter
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on May 01, 2020, 01:33:23 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 01, 2020, 10:47:24 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 01, 2020, 10:41:11 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 01, 2020, 10:33:25 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 01, 2020, 10:28:39 AM
Are care home owners getting away with alot here in terms of not providing their staff with PPE?

In years to come you might see some kind of legal action going their way alright, I could see them being a very easy target when the dust settles.

In which case the government are even more culpable to being sued.

They deliberately forced through a designation change for COVID-19 so that they could get away with less stringent PPE requirements.

100+ dead healthcare workers and counting... I'd say they are wide open to a massive compensation claim from all families affected. Hancock offers £60k? Might wanna stick two zeroes on the end of that.

The government won't be sued.

The absolutely unnecessary public enquiry into care homes during this time, will determine nobody to blame.

Nobody will win.

It's hard to see how there will not be a public inquiry.

Right now there are serious but unproven allegations against UK government. Each of those allegations will have to be rigorously investigated. And if looking at the government you will have to look at other parties
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on May 01, 2020, 01:36:44 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 01, 2020, 10:50:27 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 01, 2020, 10:47:24 AM
The government won't be sued.

The absolutely unnecessary public enquiry into care homes during this time, will determine nobody to blame.

Nobody will win.

I'm envisaging a civil action outside a public enquiry - which as you say - are just a monumental waste of money.

We've seen enough of them here over the years to know they are a washout.

Will in UK there needs to be one. I have some concerns about how the Tories will seek to use their majority to influence the terms of reference but there is now an established UK standard and hopefully they cannot deviate away from that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 01, 2020, 01:51:16 PM
There will be a rash of civil actions and a (useless) public inquiry down south too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 01, 2020, 02:12:37 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 01, 2020, 01:20:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 01, 2020, 11:47:23 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 01, 2020, 10:47:24 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 01, 2020, 10:41:11 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 01, 2020, 10:33:25 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 01, 2020, 10:28:39 AM
Are care home owners getting away with alot here in terms of not providing their staff with PPE?

In years to come you might see some kind of legal action going their way alright, I could see them being a very easy target when the dust settles.

In which case the government are even more culpable to being sued.

They deliberately forced through a designation change for COVID-19 so that they could get away with less stringent PPE requirements.

100+ dead healthcare workers and counting... I'd say they are wide open to a massive compensation claim from all families affected. Hancock offers £60k? Might wanna stick two zeroes on the end of that.

The government won't be sued.

The absolutely unnecessary public enquiry into care homes during this time, will determine nobody to blame.

Nobody will win.

Solicitors up and down the country will beg to differ on that point ;)

Until there is conclusive evidence to suggest that the actions of care homes contributed to a shortened lifespan for its residents, then a solicitor would have to treat these cases as no different to the death of an elderly person in a care home, prior to Covid.

Sue them? For what exactly?

If it's shown that there was a lack of ppe and care workers lost their lives because of it, that will bring about cases, same as residents in nursing homes who had no underlying conditions prior to Covid and care homes were having patients sent back from hospital without being tested and in a lot of cases the Covid was spread around care homes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 01, 2020, 02:21:44 PM
Just released today on the north's deaths
90% of deaths are 60 years of age and above with 75% of those 80 and above
Now every death is bad so I'm not for 1 minute saying otherwise
What I will say is that locking down everything surely needs to be looked at
I think a total lockdown and isolation for 60s and above should continue
People are loosing jobs left right and centre
Livelihoods are wiped out in a matter of weeks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 01, 2020, 02:29:32 PM
The game is up. Roads far busier today. The UK and NI governments have no authority. People aren't listening. They don't believe the CMOs or other experts as they've already badly let us down. The only way forward is to relax restrictions and increase hospital capacity. We've been failed by sheer negligence and incompetence.

Michael McBride the CMO in NI should resign. Vallance and Whitty should follow suit . Their handling of this pandemic has been farcical.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on May 01, 2020, 02:51:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 01, 2020, 02:29:32 PM
The game is up. Roads far busier today. The UK and NI governments have no authority. People aren't listening. They don't believe the CMOs or other experts as they've already badly let us down. The only way forward is to relax restrictions and increase hospital capacity. We've been failed by sheer negligence and incompetence.

Michael McBride the CMO in NI should resign. Vallance and Whitty should follow suit . Their handling of this pandemic has been farcical.

I very strongly suspect that there is incompetence at play here so this is not a defence.

That said should the lock down be lifted in other countries? Which politicians should resign?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 01, 2020, 02:57:40 PM
Which roads are busy?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 01, 2020, 03:04:18 PM
You keep saying the game is up trailer. Have you read the death tolls?

Traffic statistically is significantly down. Quantify "far busier"??

I do think more businesses are opening who wouldn't have been previously. e.g. some food places etc. However to say the game is up is nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 01, 2020, 03:12:50 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 01, 2020, 03:04:18 PM
You keep saying the game is up trailer. Have you read the death tolls?

Traffic statistically is significantly down. Quantify "far busier"??

I do think more businesses are opening who wouldn't have been previously. e.g. some food places etc. However to say the game is up is nonsense.

Some businesses are reopening, having re-engineered their premises and processes. THis is what we need generally.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 01, 2020, 03:19:31 PM
Yeah and that is wise. It's just the confrontational dramatic nonsense like "the game is up" etc.

Sure feck sake increase hospital capacity after saying there was no one in hospitals.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 01, 2020, 03:39:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 01, 2020, 03:12:50 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 01, 2020, 03:04:18 PM
You keep saying the game is up trailer. Have you read the death tolls?

Traffic statistically is significantly down. Quantify "far busier"??

I do think more businesses are opening who wouldn't have been previously. e.g. some food places etc. However to say the game is up is nonsense.

Some businesses are reopening, having re-engineered their premises and processes. THis is what we need generally.

Yes, we need a new normal quickly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hereiam on May 01, 2020, 03:43:23 PM
Alot of manufacturing places in Mid Ulster Area are starting back next week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on May 01, 2020, 04:17:14 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 01, 2020, 03:39:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 01, 2020, 03:12:50 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 01, 2020, 03:04:18 PM
You keep saying the game is up trailer. Have you read the death tolls?

Traffic statistically is significantly down. Quantify "far busier"??

I do think more businesses are opening who wouldn't have been previously. e.g. some food places etc. However to say the game is up is nonsense.

Some businesses are reopening, having re-engineered their premises and processes. THis is what we need generally.

Yes, we need a new normal quickly.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/thousands-of-jobs-to-be-cut-at-ryanair-and-aer-lingus-due-to-covid-19-1.4242639?mode=amp

" Group chief executive Michael O'Leary, whose pay was cut by 50 per cent for April and May, has now agreed to extend this for the remainder of the financial year to March 2021.

Due to EU government flight restrictions, Ryanair said it expects to operate less than 1 per cent of its scheduled flying programme in April, May and June.

Traffic of less than 150,000 passengers will be 99.5 per cent behind the quarterly budget of 42.4 million passengers."

Normal is a long way off , unfortunately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on May 01, 2020, 04:21:07 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 01, 2020, 12:31:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 01, 2020, 12:01:12 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on May 01, 2020, 11:23:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 01, 2020, 11:13:02 AM
Our own local government not beyond fault either. 3 years of no gov has left NHS locally vastly under prepared, coupled with lack of Nursing staff due to poor pay and conditions (Poots and O'Neill oversaw those cuts). Followed up by complete incompetence, blindly following Britain and McBride the CMO here. Lack of testing. Lack of leadership.
But as is the NI way we will reward and promote this incompetence then moan about the DUP or SF rather than taking responsibility and changing our vote.

I assume you very much supported Michelle O'Neill and other Sinn Féin minisiters when they questioned and disagreed with the blind following of the Tory government and "medical science" at the very beginning of this process?

I agree with what she said re closing schools and the SF position on herd immunity. I very much disagree with the way she did it. She made it into a political issue Nats v Unionist, when it should clearly have been a science issue. Remember on the Thursday evening she supported keeping schools open... on the Friday morning she wanted them closed. Not the leadership, but suppose she got their in the end.

There was much made of that and the lack of unity in the executive in the local media but with Poots and Givan going on solo runs on opening Garden centres and churches less so. Strange that!

I mentioned that before but it doesn't suit Trailer's political agenda.

Also said, we should be dealing with this on an all-island way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 01, 2020, 04:55:19 PM
Leo to address us at 6.30.
Probably not much change for another 2 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on May 01, 2020, 05:09:10 PM
Golf courses will be opening tomorrow apparently

edit: or not ...... these fecking fake letters. Look at the signatories.

(https://i.redd.it/1ojdribzvyv41.jpg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on May 01, 2020, 05:15:45 PM
Got an email from our golf club that sadly these letters are fake.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 01, 2020, 05:30:53 PM
The UK briefings are becoming a complete waste of time, they make statements that can't be challenged, and the questions are similar, the same old tired responses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on May 01, 2020, 05:40:16 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on May 01, 2020, 05:09:10 PM
Golf courses will be opening tomorrow apparently

edit: or not ...... these fecking fake letters. Look at the signatories.

(https://i.redd.it/1ojdribzvyv41.jpg)
signed. Owen lee Joe King
Come on lads. Yous weren't caught with this one ffs  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on May 01, 2020, 05:43:40 PM
I can't believe anyone is still (or ever)getting caught out by any of these emails and WhatsApps.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 01, 2020, 06:57:27 PM
From Tuesday in ROI.

(https://i.ibb.co/KKZ3wYZ/Screenshot-20200501-185446-2.png) (https://ibb.co/DrXSpNX)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 01, 2020, 08:07:56 PM
If the 5km takes you over the border is that ok? Asking for a nut job on here
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 01, 2020, 08:11:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 01, 2020, 08:07:56 PM
If the 5km takes you over the border is that ok? Asking for a nut job on here

;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: charlieTully on May 01, 2020, 08:26:45 PM
Would any of you lads know what ppe is standard for Amber areas in hospitals in the south ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on May 01, 2020, 08:27:01 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-the-re-opening-ireland-plan-in-detail-1.4242985?mode=amp

"The last phase begins on August 10th

Pubs, bars, nightclubs and casinos will re-open where social distancing can be complied with. "

Coppers at 2 metres won't be the same.

https://youtu.be/FYC5d3El4Xg

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 01, 2020, 08:48:16 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 01, 2020, 10:55:29 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 01, 2020, 10:50:27 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 01, 2020, 10:47:24 AM
The government won't be sued.

The absolutely unnecessary public enquiry into care homes during this time, will determine nobody to blame.

Nobody will win.

I'm envisaging a civil action outside a public enquiry - which as you say - are just a monumental waste of money.

We've seen enough of them here over the years to know they are a washout.

But for a civil action to stand a chance then they would need evidence that if government / care home owners had operated differently, then these people would have lived longer.

Such evidence would have to be modelled against the spread of the virus in the country / region ie comparing NZ's care home approach would make no sense, as the spread was more tightly contained across the country.

I just can't see how anyone will be able to pull together the evidence to make that case.

And if I'm being honest, it's no bad thing. Sometimes there isn't actually anyone to blame. It's just life.

Ah, but that's where your missing the key point - the government reduced the classification on COVID-19 so it wouldn't have to supply PPE to the same level. 100+ dead healthcare workers later would indicate that reducing protection was very much a grave mistake.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 01, 2020, 08:56:29 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 01, 2020, 12:26:45 PM
Any thoughts on WHO saying Sweden have done a great job?

You have still to supply a citation for this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on May 01, 2020, 09:07:00 PM
Light at the end of the tunnel for us.

Phase 1 (18 May)
allow outdoor meetings between a maximum of 4 people from different households while maintaning social distancing (keeping at least 2 metres away from each other)
open up childcare for healthcare workers
phased return of outdoor workers (for example: construction workers and gardeners)

open retailers which are primarily outdoor or those which were open during first level of restriction (for example: opticians)

opening of certain outdoor public amenities (for example: carparks, beaches, mountain walks where people can move around without coming into contact with each other and they keep at least 2 metres away from each other)

Phase 2 (8 June)
allow visits to households (visits to those who are cocooning can occur if all parties wear facemasks, gloves and maintain a distance of at least 2 metres away from each other)

develop plans and supports to open up business with consideration for safety of staff and customers

open small retail outlets and marts where social distancing can be observed
open public libraries

Phase 3 (29 June)
allow small social gatherings

opening of crèches, childminders and pre-schools for children of essential workers in phased manner
return to work for those with low levels of interaction
open non-essential retail outlets with street level entrance and exit

open playgrounds

Phase 4 (20 July)
opening of crèches, childminders and pre-schools for children of all other workers on a gradually increasing basis
return to work for those who cannot work from home
gradual easing of restrictions for higher risk services (for example: hairdressers)

opening of museums, galleries, places of worship

Phase 5 (10 August)
allow larger social gatherings
return to work across all sectors
on a phased basis, commencing at the beginning of the academic year 2020/2021, opening of primary and secondary schools and 3rd level institutions
further easing of restrictions on high risk retail services

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on May 01, 2020, 09:07:14 PM
Re: These different phases in the south with the 2/3 weeks in between.

I presume they are dependent on each other e.g. Phase 2 is dependent on Phase 1 going well and no massive hike in figures/deaths etc.?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on May 01, 2020, 09:08:43 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 01, 2020, 09:07:14 PM
Re: These different phases in the south with the 2/3 weeks in between.

I presume they are dependent on each other e.g. Phase 2 is dependent on Phase 1 going well and no massive hike in figures/deaths etc.?
Yeah, they said its possible we could have to go back a phase.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 01, 2020, 10:24:55 PM
So the bed occupancy in hospitals in the north are now confirmed at 70/30
70% empty
30% occupied
And many say we are not on top of this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 01, 2020, 10:36:31 PM
Hardstation my friend it's no joke
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on May 01, 2020, 10:39:40 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on April 17, 2020, 11:47:37 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 17, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Quote from: Rudi on April 17, 2020, 09:24:29 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 17, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
Keelings chartering a flight from Bulgaria for fruit pickers. . . is there any truth to that??

That looks true, shocking stuff. No more Keelings for me.

Whys it shocking?

I'll do it , I live a few miles down the road . And like I've told them in an email I'll also get them 100 able bodied men for the morning .

The locals have neither the appetite or attitude for it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/27/112-50000-uk-applicants-fruit-pickers-take-jobs-amid-farmers/
Did you know the other 12?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 02, 2020, 07:49:02 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 01, 2020, 10:27:22 PM
That's a joke. Get those beds filled!

;D

It means the lockdown is making a big difference for now. That is all it means.

Radiogaagaa there is a times article about who saying about Sweden and lockdown but it's behind a paywall. I don't know the full ins and outs as I can't see all of it though I expect there is context. I suspect they are saying what Sweden are doing is ideal for the next phase of lockdown as opposed to it being what you should do up front. I am not sure though but I am not fully convinced they are lauding Sweden's approach.(could be wrong as I can't see the whole article)

[edit]
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/29-april-who-briefing-trust-sweden/ (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/29-april-who-briefing-trust-sweden/)

Best I could get.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on May 02, 2020, 08:31:52 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 01, 2020, 03:43:23 PM
Alot of manufacturing places in Mid Ulster Area are starting back next week.

I was under the impression they did not have to close, they just had to provide a safe working environment. I would hope they spent the last few weeks productively, getting their facilities and working practices set up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 02, 2020, 10:56:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 02, 2020, 07:49:02 AM
Radiogaagaa there is a times article about who saying about Sweden and lockdown but it's behind a paywall. I don't know the full ins and outs as I can't see all of it though I expect there is context. I suspect they are saying what Sweden are doing is ideal for the next phase of lockdown as opposed to it being what you should do up front. I am not sure though but I am not fully convinced they are lauding Sweden's approach.(could be wrong as I can't see the whole article)

I can't see how they would be lauding Sweden's approach when it compares extremely poorly to its immediate neighbours, hence wanted the article to read it.

Of course, Smurfy just ran off when asked (twice) to back up his statement.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 02, 2020, 10:58:29 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 01, 2020, 10:24:55 PM
So the bed occupancy in hospitals in the north are now confirmed at 70/30
70% empty
30% occupied
And many say we are not on top of this

... and what percentage of that 70% come with breathing assistance?

But yeah, from talking to a couple of folks working in the ICUs, numbers in intensive care are dropping - but they are worried about the 2nd wave. A second wave that will be made extremely bad by idiots calling for an immediate return to normalcy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 02, 2020, 01:09:32 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 02, 2020, 10:56:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 02, 2020, 07:49:02 AM
Radiogaagaa there is a times article about who saying about Sweden and lockdown but it's behind a paywall. I don't know the full ins and outs as I can't see all of it though I expect there is context. I suspect they are saying what Sweden are doing is ideal for the next phase of lockdown as opposed to it being what you should do up front. I am not sure though but I am not fully convinced they are lauding Sweden's approach.(could be wrong as I can't see the whole article)

I can't see how they would be lauding Sweden's approach when it compares extremely poorly to its immediate neighbours, hence wanted the article to read it.

Of course, Smurfy just ran off when asked (twice) to back up his statement.

I was interested too just to see but I am not convinced what was said was what smurfy said. I am still unconvinced.

Yeah I know a few working in ICU and definitely hasn't been as busy as thought but it has to be considered this has been with stringent lockdown which will have to be relaxed so there will be more. Biggest complaint I have heard is that the location of "nightingale " in Belfast is a disaster logistically from a healthcare perspective but in general things haven't been as bad as feared and the general fear is a second wave will be a good bit worse due to our low infection rates thus far.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 02, 2020, 01:41:20 PM
If there comes a time of no new infections, can we not just shut Ireland off? No flights out or in and ferry's monitored to check temperatures of drivers and so on?

Surely after a while it will die out?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 02, 2020, 02:03:18 PM
You can convince Arlene on that one ;D

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 02, 2020, 02:15:37 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 02, 2020, 02:03:18 PM
You can convince Arlene on that one ;D

Couldn't convince her unless the UK government said it was the thing to do!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 02, 2020, 02:33:48 PM
Never going to happen. Probably the zero infections for a long time too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on May 02, 2020, 07:36:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 02, 2020, 01:41:20 PM
If there comes a time of no new infections, can we not just shut Ireland off? No flights out or in and ferry's monitored to check temperatures of drivers and so on?

Surely after a while it will die out?

Temperature checks a complete waste of time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 02, 2020, 08:02:03 PM
Temperature checks are not a complete waste of time, but are of limited effectiveness in the case of this virus. The question is what would work better?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on May 02, 2020, 08:21:01 PM
The problem with temperature checking is that not everyone with Covid has a temperature and not everyone with a temperature has Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 02, 2020, 11:57:39 PM
Paracetamol reduces your temperature, easily dodged if you're that way inclined.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on May 03, 2020, 12:14:27 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 02, 2020, 08:02:03 PM
Temperature checks are not a complete waste of time, but are of limited effectiveness in the case of this virus. The question is what would work better?

Yes they are. You can carry virus for many days without any symptoms showing. Temp checks are just there to give people a false sense of security.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 03, 2020, 12:53:59 AM
So, how many people will actually take their temperature, how many know what normal temperature should be and will those with a high temperature not bother getting on public transport?

Unless a third party does it I think it's pretty useless.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on May 03, 2020, 01:32:14 AM
Only way we will get out of this rut is with a vaccine or a instant diagnostic tool. A long way off them both being put into mass production. All I would say is buckle down folks, this is a marathon. Another issue that will have to be looked at is the long term effects Covid 19 has on the lungs.... One bad flu season could be devestating.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on May 03, 2020, 05:59:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 02, 2020, 01:41:20 PM
If there comes a time of no new infections, can we not just shut Ireland off? No flights out or in and ferry's monitored to check temperatures of drivers and so on?

Surely after a while it will die out?

https://youtu.be/dL_PXBt85rY
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on May 03, 2020, 07:41:39 AM
Quote from: Square Ball on May 03, 2020, 12:53:59 AM
So, how many people will actually take their temperature, how many know what normal temperature should be and will those with a high temperature not bother getting on public transport?

Unless a third party does it I think it's pretty useless.

I think the point is that you won't take your own temperature. You will walk through a scanner when entering large shops, offices, public transport hubs or airports. That technology is being worked on. Whether it would ever be slick enough to be installed on a bus is one the significant issue.

But the more significant issue is issue pointed out below. Its not accurate enough, too easy got around and is more about giving a sense is security and getting people to resume old behaviours. It's driven by economics not public health
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2020, 10:22:32 AM
So none of the stuff is going to help until a vaccine is found? So back to my earlier point, can we not just close the island down and what  we have contain it let it die off and get on with our lives again?

This may sound drastic and outside of tourism, that may hurt us, but that's going to happen as a result of this globally what are the other major drawbacks from shutting down the Island?

We can have stay vacations, international business cans be done on Skype (not ideal, but safe) , goods and foods coming in needs to be monitored as it still needs to be an essential part of our day to day, so that's the main risk.

Who's going to lose out work wise what would be the percentage on that? In comparison to who's losing out now? And can the governments help those businesses that have to work away from home?

Local sports could resume, normal life gets back gradually, keep social distancing to a point to build confidence and put in proper tracing methods to be ready if it was to raise its head again. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on May 03, 2020, 10:38:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2020, 10:22:32 AM
So none of the stuff is going to help until a vaccine is found? So back to my earlier point, can we not just close the island down and what  we have contain it let it die off and get on with our lives again?

This may sound drastic and outside of tourism, that may hurt us, but that's going to happen as a result of this globally what are the other major drawbacks from shutting down the Island?

We can have stay vacations, international business cans be done on Skype (not ideal, but safe) , goods and foods coming in needs to be monitored as it still needs to be an essential part of our day to day, so that's the main risk.

Who's going to lose out work wise what would be the percentage on that? In comparison to who's losing out now? And can the governments help those businesses that have to work away from home?

Local sports could resume, normal life gets back gradually, keep social distancing to a point to build confidence and put in proper tracing methods to be ready if it was to raise its head again.

Though there are challenges with a lot of that MR, it could be the "new normal".
I can't understand people separating public health and the economy as both are directly related. At times of austerity two sectors which are hit hardest are health and education. So prolonged lockdown reducing GDP will potentially challenge public health more than Coronavirus. Notably the inevitable cutbacks will preferentially harm the most vulnerable.
There's genuine concern that the many Diseases of inactivity, isolation &  collective and individual poverty are likely to present a far bigger challenge to society than an appropriately managed pandemic
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 03, 2020, 10:39:41 AM
Interesting point in today's Sunday Times - UK Government Scientists are investigating whether Britain's high death toll is the result of the Obesity crisis after it emerged that the proportion of severely obese patients in ICU with CV 19 is twice the proportion of severely obese people in the general population.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2020, 10:47:18 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on May 03, 2020, 10:38:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2020, 10:22:32 AM
So none of the stuff is going to help until a vaccine is found? So back to my earlier point, can we not just close the island down and what  we have contain it let it die off and get on with our lives again?

This may sound drastic and outside of tourism, that may hurt us, but that's going to happen as a result of this globally what are the other major drawbacks from shutting down the Island?

We can have stay vacations, international business cans be done on Skype (not ideal, but safe) , goods and foods coming in needs to be monitored as it still needs to be an essential part of our day to day, so that's the main risk.

Who's going to lose out work wise what would be the percentage on that? In comparison to who's losing out now? And can the governments help those businesses that have to work away from home?

Local sports could resume, normal life gets back gradually, keep social distancing to a point to build confidence and put in proper tracing methods to be ready if it was to raise its head again.

Though there are challenges with a lot of that MR, it could be the "new normal".
I can't understand people separating public health and the economy as both are directly related. At times of austerity two sectors which are hit hardest are health and education. So prolonged lockdown reducing GDP will potentially challenge public health more than Coronavirus. Notably the inevitable cutbacks will preferentially harm the most vulnerable.
There's genuine concern that the many Diseases of inactivity, isolation &  collective and individual poverty are likely to present a far bigger challenge to society than an appropriately managed pandemic

So the challenges I agree are there but what's the best option? Continue the way we are until there's a proper vaccine (up to two years)  in and out lockdowns until we 80% of the people to get it, to be honest I don't want it, even if there are a thousand ICU's available, all the small local businesses closed unemployment through the roof, those that are working getting taxed to within a inch of their lives to claw things back.. the knock on effects are staggering
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on May 03, 2020, 10:54:22 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 03, 2020, 10:39:41 AM
Interesting point in today's Sunday Times - UK Government Scientists are investigating whether Britain's high death toll is the result of the Obesity crisis after it emerged that the proportion of severely obese patients in ICU with CV 19 is twice the proportion of severely obese people in the general population.

There are several stats such as this which are very relevant, but are hard to quantify . The raw data on cases and deaths from corona need to be contextualised taking into account other factors such as obesity, poverty etc.
In 2014 for example 28000 died from seasonal flu in UK. Now given that this is likely to be an underestimate compared to Corona , it did not result in lockdown .

Look at annual road deaths in NI , they have reduced from 150 to 50 over a 20 year timeframe , through several improvements eg seatbelts, awareness, reduced drink driving etc , but closing the roads was never contemplated.

Unfortunately politics has moved towards populism , and soundbites, and it seems uk government (amongst others) is not actually drilling down the statistics and responding to the challenge in a strategic way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 03, 2020, 11:15:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2020, 10:22:32 AM
So none of the stuff is going to help until a vaccine is found? So back to my earlier point, can we not just close the island down and what  we have contain it let it die off and get on with our lives again?

Its what I wanted done in Feb.

Unfortunately, there is an additional problem beyond the obvious.

Here you have to deal with Arlene Foster - she'll not accept that as it would be diverging from the rest of the UK. Big Ian had no problems being pragmatic when foot & mouth came along, but Foster is a different breed of intransigent (& stupid).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2020, 11:45:37 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 03, 2020, 11:15:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2020, 10:22:32 AM
So none of the stuff is going to help until a vaccine is found? So back to my earlier point, can we not just close the island down and what  we have contain it let it die off and get on with our lives again?

Its what I wanted done in Feb.

Unfortunately, there is an additional problem beyond the obvious.

Here you have to deal with Arlene Foster - she'll not accept that as it would be diverging from the rest of the UK. Big Ian had no problems being pragmatic when foot & mouth came along, but Foster is a different breed of intransigent (& stupid).

What creditable excuse could she use?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 03, 2020, 12:18:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2020, 11:45:37 AM
What creditable excuse could she use?

We take our scientific advice from London, not the pope of Rome or dublin.

etc
etc
etc

Don't forget - it doesn't have to be rational - as long as it appeals to wee Jamie et al.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 03, 2020, 12:34:01 PM
There's absolutely no way foster would be part of locking this island down. You have a better chance of winning the lottery than that happening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on May 03, 2020, 12:41:42 PM
The Tories don't follow the science because the death rate is the highest in the EU.

The Unionists are tied to an incompetent.
Their default anti Irish stance doesn't work now either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 03, 2020, 12:48:04 PM
They would blindly follow the British no matter what they do. Now what will be interesting is how we get out of lockdown here. I can't see the UK doing like Down south with current death rates so who do we follow up here? More political wars between dup and sf to follow.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 03, 2020, 01:17:37 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 03, 2020, 12:48:04 PM
They would blindly follow the British no matter what they do. Now what will be interesting is how we get out of lockdown here. I can't see the UK doing like Down south with current death rates so who do we follow up here? More political wars between dup and sf to follow.

The first phase of opening in the 26 counties will hardly cause that much difference.
NI can regulate these things itself, it is only unionist bigotry that is stopping them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2020, 01:54:40 PM
How many flights are coming in to Ireland at the minute? I take it only Dublin and Belfast international are the only ones working?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 03, 2020, 03:00:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2020, 01:54:40 PM
How many flights are coming in to Ireland at the minute? I take it only Dublin and Belfast international are the only ones working?

At the minute map. Not many and a few of those planes are flying over than landing in Ireland

(https://i.ibb.co/XFntD0j/Screenshot-20200503-145734-2.png) (https://ibb.co/RQXcNrY)


Meanwhile the USA with the most cases and deaths in the world from this virus.

(https://i.ibb.co/ZGLRHtw/Screenshot-20200503-150255-2.png) (https://ibb.co/k5HV3kr)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 03, 2020, 03:43:34 PM
The Yank ones are probably run on disinfectant.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Boycey on May 03, 2020, 05:10:42 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 03, 2020, 03:00:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2020, 01:54:40 PM
How many flights are coming in to Ireland at the minute? I take it only Dublin and Belfast international are the only ones working?

At the minute map. Not many and a few of those planes are flying over than landing in Ireland

(https://i.ibb.co/XFntD0j/Screenshot-20200503-145734-2.png) (https://ibb.co/RQXcNrY)


Meanwhile the USA with the most cases and deaths in the world from this virus.

(https://i.ibb.co/ZGLRHtw/Screenshot-20200503-150255-2.png) (https://ibb.co/k5HV3kr)

That's what Donald would say is Fake News comparing Ireland to North America. Try North America and Europe, I just did, the numbers look reasonable similar
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on May 03, 2020, 05:22:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2020, 01:54:40 PM
How many flights are coming in to Ireland at the minute? I take it only Dublin and Belfast international are the only ones working?
I think there's one per day flying into Belfast City and one flying into Derry from London, probably not daily.

I don't think Belfast International is doing any passenger flights. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 03, 2020, 07:52:40 PM
Sport needs to come back soon. Euro 96 is being replayed. If it doesn't hurry up the 1966 World Cup will soon be on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 03, 2020, 11:07:39 PM
Quote from: Boycey on May 03, 2020, 05:10:42 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 03, 2020, 03:00:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2020, 01:54:40 PM
How many flights are coming in to Ireland at the minute? I take it only Dublin and Belfast international are the only ones working?

At the minute map. Not many and a few of those planes are flying over than landing in Ireland

(https://i.ibb.co/XFntD0j/Screenshot-20200503-145734-2.png) (https://ibb.co/RQXcNrY)


Meanwhile the USA with the most cases and deaths in the world from this virus.

(https://i.ibb.co/ZGLRHtw/Screenshot-20200503-150255-2.png) (https://ibb.co/k5HV3kr)

That's what Donald would say is Fake News comparing Ireland to North America. Try North America and Europe, I just did, the numbers look reasonable similar

I live under the flight paths into LaGuardia Airport  in NYC and flights are way, way down at the moment. We usually have a plane every minute or two flying in; it's down to a couple per hour at most and has been for a few weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 04, 2020, 11:32:05 AM
The UK Gov and their media buddies doing their utmost to throw some glitter on the turd they've made of this.

Not only can they not be trusted to count PPE honestly, they also can't count the tests honestly.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 04, 2020, 11:39:53 AM
New Zealand (an island that closed everything) no new cases being reported, follow all the models you want, this one is proving best.

I must admit at the start of this I was looking at it like a lot of the virus that didn't really impact us badly at the time and thought it would be contained and die out. If counties take anything out of this they should close down airports and restrict travel straight away. Contain what we've got and nip it in the bud quickly, life will get back quicker.

I've never been out of work this long now, even when teaching I was only off a month! It's crazy!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 04, 2020, 11:46:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 04, 2020, 11:39:53 AM
New Zealand (an island that closed everything) no new cases being reported, follow all the models you want, this one is proving best.

I must admit at the start of this I was looking at it like a lot of the virus that didn't really impact us badly at the time and thought it would be contained and die out. If counties take anything out of this they should close down airports and restrict travel straight away. Contain what we've got and nip it in the bud quickly, life will get back quicker.

I've never been out of work this long now, even when teaching I was only off a month! It's crazy!

Think everyone was fairly in agreement this was probably the best option for Ireland as a landmass at the start, it's just unfortunate it was a no go. I don't even think they will be able to implement it if/when this was to happen again.

New Zealand is also rightly out on it's own there in the Tasmanian Sea.....it had every advantage going.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 04, 2020, 11:50:27 AM
As well as being 2 thinly populated islands 2,500 km from anywhere they didn't have hundreds of school kids on skiing holidays in a Region which got badly infected.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 04, 2020, 12:04:10 PM
The dup would never allow us to cut flights to London etc though.

There's a good few months in it yet mr.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 04, 2020, 12:59:59 PM
Airports should have been closed straight away. Take the hit for a month and all cases would have been kept on this island.
The new nightingale hospital in England is to be closed down this week.
Think a lot of people overestimated this virus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 04, 2020, 01:03:13 PM
All those oul restrictions might have helped contain it ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 04, 2020, 01:07:16 PM
Which ones?
Cheltenham
Liverpool Madrid
Manchester Derby
Hundreds of thousands still travelling on the London tubes every morning

Those ones
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2020, 01:17:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 04, 2020, 01:03:13 PM
All those oul restrictions might have helped contain it ;)

Amazing how these things work, isn't it? ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 04, 2020, 01:53:23 PM
Sounds encouraging and i can imagine before phase 1 comes into play on May 18th its hoped that ICU numbers fall to less than 50.

Quote

There were fewer than 100 people in intensive care units with confirmed coronavirus last night, the third day in a row, Health Service Executive (HSE) data also shows.

The HSE's daily operations update released last night shows 93 people were in these units across the country and a further 20 people with suspected cases of Covid-19 were being treated in intensive care.

The equivalent figures were 98 and 22 on Saturday night, 99 and 21 on Friday and 105 and 18 the day before, meaning the number of confirmed cases in intensive care is below 100 for the third day running and the lowest in more than a month.

As of 8pm on Sunday there were 906 cases or suspected cases of Covid-19 in the Republic's acute hospitals, compared to 953 at the same time on Saturday night and 1,010 on Friday night


By my count the amount of cases in the ROI this week was 2244 in comparison to the last 3 weeks it was

April 6th to 12th - 4661
April 13th to 19th - 5596
April 20th to 26th  - 4011




Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 04, 2020, 02:08:26 PM
Hopefully Cunny.
As long as Smurf isn't in charge of anything.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 04, 2020, 02:40:43 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 04, 2020, 01:53:23 PM
Sounds encouraging and i can imagine before phase 1 comes into play on May 18th its hoped that ICU numbers fall to less than 50.

Quote

There were fewer than 100 people in intensive care units with confirmed coronavirus last night, the third day in a row, Health Service Executive (HSE) data also shows.

The HSE's daily operations update released last night shows 93 people were in these units across the country and a further 20 people with suspected cases of Covid-19 were being treated in intensive care.

The equivalent figures were 98 and 22 on Saturday night, 99 and 21 on Friday and 105 and 18 the day before, meaning the number of confirmed cases in intensive care is below 100 for the third day running and the lowest in more than a month.

As of 8pm on Sunday there were 906 cases or suspected cases of Covid-19 in the Republic's acute hospitals, compared to 953 at the same time on Saturday night and 1,010 on Friday night


By my count the amount of cases in the ROI this week was 2244 in comparison to the last 3 weeks it was

April 6th to 12th - 4661
April 13th to 19th - 5596
April 20th to 26th  - 4011

Do you mean the amount of new cases or the amount of cases? (Not a dig a genuine question - I am assuming that is new cases?)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 04, 2020, 02:47:06 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 04, 2020, 02:40:43 PM
Do you mean the amount of new cases or the amount of cases? (Not a dig a genuine question - I am assuming that is new cases?)

It is new cases. Cases is a bit harder as recovery is sometimes not logged or only recorded once a week.
However if  you look here, the trends are generally down. Bit to go yet though, but we are getting there.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/ireland/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 04, 2020, 02:56:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 04, 2020, 02:40:43 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 04, 2020, 01:53:23 PM
Sounds encouraging and i can imagine before phase 1 comes into play on May 18th its hoped that ICU numbers fall to less than 50.

Quote

There were fewer than 100 people in intensive care units with confirmed coronavirus last night, the third day in a row, Health Service Executive (HSE) data also shows.

The HSE's daily operations update released last night shows 93 people were in these units across the country and a further 20 people with suspected cases of Covid-19 were being treated in intensive care.

The equivalent figures were 98 and 22 on Saturday night, 99 and 21 on Friday and 105 and 18 the day before, meaning the number of confirmed cases in intensive care is below 100 for the third day running and the lowest in more than a month.

As of 8pm on Sunday there were 906 cases or suspected cases of Covid-19 in the Republic's acute hospitals, compared to 953 at the same time on Saturday night and 1,010 on Friday night


By my count the amount of cases in the ROI this week was 2244 in comparison to the last 3 weeks it was

April 6th to 12th - 4661
April 13th to 19th - 5596
April 20th to 26th  - 4011

Do you mean the amount of new cases or the amount of cases? (Not a dig a genuine question - I am assuming that is new cases?)

New cases each week. For the week ahead hopefully the numbers drop much further.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 04, 2020, 04:02:14 PM
Hopefully. Cheers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 04, 2020, 04:14:29 PM
Its good news alright.

Question now is - what can be relaxed without causing that to shoot up?


I'm not sure how we monitor it closely enough to avoid being 2 weeks behind the curve if we relax the wrong thing.

Best I can think of is concentrating whatever spare testing resource there is on (representative) sample communities around the country. Test (regardless of symptoms) extensively in those communities every 2 days or something like that so if it does start to creep up, you can more quickly react rather than when people first start arriving into hospital - by which point it could be far too late.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on May 04, 2020, 04:41:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 04, 2020, 04:14:29 PM
Its good news alright.

Question now is - what can be relaxed without causing that to shoot up?


I'm not sure how we monitor it closely enough to avoid being 2 weeks behind the curve if we relax the wrong thing.

Best I can think of is concentrating whatever spare testing resource there is on (representative) sample communities around the country. Test (regardless of symptoms) extensively in those communities every 2 days or something like that so if it does start to creep up, you can more quickly react rather than when people first start arriving into hospital - by which point it could be far too late.
Inceptions are down because of the lockdown.
Opening up again will increase them .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 04, 2020, 06:21:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 04, 2020, 04:41:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 04, 2020, 04:14:29 PM
Its good news alright.

Question now is - what can be relaxed without causing that to shoot up?


I'm not sure how we monitor it closely enough to avoid being 2 weeks behind the curve if we relax the wrong thing.

Best I can think of is concentrating whatever spare testing resource there is on (representative) sample communities around the country. Test (regardless of symptoms) extensively in those communities every 2 days or something like that so if it does start to creep up, you can more quickly react rather than when people first start arriving into hospital - by which point it could be far too late.
Inceptions are down because of the lockdown.
Opening up again will increase them .


...  ???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 05, 2020, 09:24:35 AM
So France's first case was now confirmed in December 2019.

Long before this thread started, which is actually in relieving and worrying at the same time. If it was in France in December, it could easily have been in Ireland, you'd be foolish to think otherwise considering what we are told is the contagious nature of this particular virus.

Does that change everything? Are we actually in the 2nd wave right now....we just know what we are dealing with....

*EDIT - I had put fatality here, it was not, it was a positive test that was retested now they know what Covid is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 05, 2020, 09:28:02 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 05, 2020, 09:24:35 AM
So France's first fatal case was now confirmed in December 2019.

Long before this thread started, which is actually in relieving and worrying at the same time. If it was in France in December, it could easily have been in Ireland, you'd be foolish to think otherwise considering what we are told is the contagious nature of this particular virus.

Does that change everything? Are we actually in the 2nd wave right now....we just know what we are dealing with....

We need the antibody test.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on May 05, 2020, 09:41:02 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 05, 2020, 09:24:35 AM
So France's first fatal case was now confirmed in December 2019.

Long before this thread started, which is actually in relieving and worrying at the same time. If it was in France in December, it could easily have been in Ireland, you'd be foolish to think otherwise considering what we are told is the contagious nature of this particular virus.

Does that change everything? Are we actually in the 2nd wave right now....we just know what we are dealing with....

i'm also starting to think this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 05, 2020, 09:42:14 AM
I have thought this for a while to be honest. There was some study in oxford or cambridge drew this conclusion too but there were gaps in it I think too.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 05, 2020, 09:56:04 AM
They've covered it a number of times on LBC the last month, plenty of listeners ringing him claiming to have had it in January. I can recall one woman claiming a colleague returned from a holiday in China in early January and several people in the office had coronavirus symptoms and a couple of them ended up in hospital. You'd wonder how many deaths were missed in January & February have been missed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on May 05, 2020, 09:59:37 AM
https://www.latimes.com/lifestyle/story/2020-04-10/coronavirus-quarantine-birthday-party-ideas
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 05, 2020, 10:01:23 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 05, 2020, 09:56:04 AM
They've covered it a number of times on LBC the last month, plenty of listeners ringing him claiming to have had it in January. I can recall one woman claiming a colleague returned from a holiday in China in early January and several people in the office had coronavirus symptoms and a couple of them ended up in hospital. You'd wonder how many deaths were missed in January & February have been missed.

In my own workplace, in December I remember a lot of sickness - so much so, the coughing and spluttering looking back now was really very obvious that it could well have been this - at the time it was put down to 'a bad oul flu going round'....I'm sure a few of you looking back might remember something similar.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 10:11:38 AM
If Covid continues to follow its current course, then somewhere along the line, scientists (and their cult like followers) are going to have to admit they misjudged this one, and maybe indeed watched Contagion one time too many.

I'd like them to do this. Science is a much more noble pursuit when there is an admission of weakness. Being the smartest epidemiologist in the world still doesn't make you a soothsayer.

The problem we all though face is that it's going to take a long time before governments will unilaterally trust the opinion of scientists again, and if this recession hits as expected, it's going to take generations before the general population would allow them to. With the problem of course being that should a proper Spanish Flu type virus emerge in the meantime, it will be extraordinarily destructive.

Scientists (and their cult like followers) would do well to recall the boy who cried wolf. We all learn it in primary school for a very good reason.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 10:29:15 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 05, 2020, 09:24:35 AM
Does that change everything? Are we actually in the 2nd wave right now....we just know what we are dealing with....

Extremely unlikely.


You've all seen the jump in fatalities within both countries and cities far above the averages for that time of year.

There is no way such a jump - particularly given no active measures to prevent spread were ongoing - would have flew under the radar.


Now - if you said to me there was a version running around in December and has since mutated into a more deadly form - I'd be much more likely to believe that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 05, 2020, 10:35:05 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 09:28:02 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 05, 2020, 09:24:35 AM
So France's first fatal case was now confirmed in December 2019.

Long before this thread started, which is actually in relieving and worrying at the same time. If it was in France in December, it could easily have been in Ireland, you'd be foolish to think otherwise considering what we are told is the contagious nature of this particular virus.

Does that change everything? Are we actually in the 2nd wave right now....we just know what we are dealing with....

We need the antibody test.

And we also need to know if immunity from having CV-19 after having it is a thing and if so how long will this immunity last.

Still nothing conclusive on this AFAIK.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 10:35:32 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 10:11:38 AM
If Covid continues to follow its current course, then somewhere along the line, scientists (and their cult like followers) are going to have to admit they misjudged this one, and maybe indeed watched Contagion one time too many.

What the f**k wobbler.

Have you went american for a moment there fighting for freedumb?


Do you really not think that death rates had f**k all to do with the measures taken against? If not, explain Lombardy to me, or new york.


It is a thought train like your post that will have the outcome you note:

QuoteThe problem we all though face is that it's going to take a long time before governments will unilaterally trust the opinion of scientists again, and if this recession hits as expected, it's going to take generations before the general population would allow them to. With the problem of course being that should a proper Spanish Flu type virus emerge in the meantime, it will be extraordinarily destructive.

Scientists (and their cult like followers) would do well to recall the boy who cried wolf. We all learn it in primary school for a very good reason.

Viruses exhibit EXPONENTIAL growth. Do you understand what that means? You can't f**k about and have everything down to 5 sigma - by that stage everyone has already died.

The politicians (here and abroad) already dithered too long and held off shutting down travel for too long. Which then made the job of eradication all but impossible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 05, 2020, 11:28:17 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 05, 2020, 10:01:23 AM
In my own workplace, in December I remember a lot of sickness - so much so, the coughing and spluttering looking back now was really very obvious that it could well have been this - at the time it was put down to 'a bad oul flu going round'....I'm sure a few of you looking back might remember something similar.

It isn't at all obvious. I'm sure there were people sneezing and coughing just as much in the previous December. If people were in the workplace and not in bed then they had a corona virus, i.e. the common cold.

Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 10:11:38 AM
If Covid continues to follow its current course, then somewhere along the line, scientists (and their cult like followers) are going to have to admit they misjudged this one, and maybe indeed watched Contagion one time too many.

I'd like them to do this. Science is a much more noble pursuit when there is an admission of weakness. Being the smartest epidemiologist in the world still doesn't make you a soothsayer.

The problem we all though face is that it's going to take a long time before governments will unilaterally trust the opinion of scientists again, and if this recession hits as expected, it's going to take generations before the general population would allow them to. With the problem of course being that should a proper Spanish Flu type virus emerge in the meantime, it will be extraordinarily destructive.

Scientists (and their cult like followers) would do well to recall the boy who cried wolf. We all learn it in primary school for a very good reason.

There could be a worse virus, but this one is bad enough. It isn't so bad in most places because measures were taken, Wuhan, Lombardy and New York show the danger of delaying these measures. There may be a recession, but I don't expect someone to die to support my standard of living.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 05, 2020, 11:36:14 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 10:11:38 AM
If Covid continues to follow its current course, then somewhere along the line, scientists (and their cult like followers) are going to have to admit they misjudged this one, and maybe indeed watched Contagion one time too many.

I'd like them to do this. Science is a much more noble pursuit when there is an admission of weakness. Being the smartest epidemiologist in the world still doesn't make you a soothsayer.

The problem we all though face is that it's going to take a long time before governments will unilaterally trust the opinion of scientists again, and if this recession hits as expected, it's going to take generations before the general population would allow them to. With the problem of course being that should a proper Spanish Flu type virus emerge in the meantime, it will be extraordinarily destructive.

Scientists (and their cult like followers) would do well to recall the boy who cried wolf. We all learn it in primary school for a very good reason.

WHO - failed
CMOs - failed
UK Government - failed
Stormont - failed
Dublin - failed

Scientists definitely a lot to answer for.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on May 05, 2020, 11:45:33 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 05, 2020, 11:28:17 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 05, 2020, 10:01:23 AM
In my own workplace, in December I remember a lot of sickness - so much so, the coughing and spluttering looking back now was really very obvious that it could well have been this - at the time it was put down to 'a bad oul flu going round'....I'm sure a few of you looking back might remember something similar.

It isn't at all obvious. I'm sure there were people sneezing and coughing just as much in the previous December. If people were in the workplace and not in bed then they had a corona virus, i.e. the common cold.

Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 10:11:38 AM
If Covid continues to follow its current course, then somewhere along the line, scientists (and their cult like followers) are going to have to admit they misjudged this one, and maybe indeed watched Contagion one time too many.

I'd like them to do this. Science is a much more noble pursuit when there is an admission of weakness. Being the smartest epidemiologist in the world still doesn't make you a soothsayer.

The problem we all though face is that it's going to take a long time before governments will unilaterally trust the opinion of scientists again, and if this recession hits as expected, it's going to take generations before the general population would allow them to. With the problem of course being that should a proper Spanish Flu type virus emerge in the meantime, it will be extraordinarily destructive.

Scientists (and their cult like followers) would do well to recall the boy who cried wolf. We all learn it in primary school for a very good reason.

There could be a worse virus, but this one is bad enough. It isn't so bad in most places because measures were taken, Wuhan, Lombardy and New York show the danger of delaying these measures. There may be a recession, but I don't expect someone to die to support my standard of living.
Poverty kills.  Compare the life expectancy of a person living in any inner city in the UK with high unemployment to a more affluent area and the average life expectancy can be down by as much as 10 years.  Mental health issues, depression, high alcohol and drug use, poor diet etc. are all synonymous with areas of high unemployment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 05, 2020, 11:52:38 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 05, 2020, 11:28:17 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 05, 2020, 10:01:23 AM
In my own workplace, in December I remember a lot of sickness - so much so, the coughing and spluttering looking back now was really very obvious that it could well have been this - at the time it was put down to 'a bad oul flu going round'....I'm sure a few of you looking back might remember something similar.

It isn't at all obvious. I'm sure there were people sneezing and coughing just as much in the previous December. If people were in the workplace and not in bed then they had a corona virus, i.e. the common cold.



Not really, you can have this coronavirus and be perfectly fine. The French case is interesting because it suggests that everything we know about the virus has changed and indeed it could have mutated thus for the worse causing the second wave of what we now know is Covid 19. Meaning a first wave may have passed without us even knowing.

In December the thought of this being in Europe was fanciful at best. Now we are learning that certainly one person has tested positive for it (so obviously alot more had it). So it beggars the question, was Covid 19 responsible for deaths before we thought it was an 'issue'? If so, just how long (time wise) has this spread? It's very interesting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 05, 2020, 11:57:00 AM
Interestingly on that topic a friend of mine put that on twitter and there was a fella replied who has a sister who is in a bad way with COVID(frontline worker). He said she told him she had the worst flu she ever had in December and now she has got the virus too.

Hard to know what to think on it.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on May 05, 2020, 11:58:57 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 11:36:14 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 10:11:38 AM
If Covid continues to follow its current course, then somewhere along the line, scientists (and their cult like followers) are going to have to admit they misjudged this one, and maybe indeed watched Contagion one time too many.

I'd like them to do this. Science is a much more noble pursuit when there is an admission of weakness. Being the smartest epidemiologist in the world still doesn't make you a soothsayer.

The problem we all though face is that it's going to take a long time before governments will unilaterally trust the opinion of scientists again, and if this recession hits as expected, it's going to take generations before the general population would allow them to. With the problem of course being that should a proper Spanish Flu type virus emerge in the meantime, it will be extraordinarily destructive.

Scientists (and their cult like followers) would do well to recall the boy who cried wolf. We all learn it in primary school for a very good reason.

WHO - failed
CMOs - failed
UK Government - failed
Stormont - failed
Dublin - failed

Scientists definitely a lot to answer for.

Tail risk is like that Trailer. Nobody is ready for it. 2008 was the same.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:01:38 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 10:35:32 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 10:11:38 AM
If Covid continues to follow its current course, then somewhere along the line, scientists (and their cult like followers) are going to have to admit they misjudged this one, and maybe indeed watched Contagion one time too many.

What the f**k wobbler.

Have you went retarded american for a moment there fighting for freedumb?


Do you really not think that death rates had f**k all to do with the measures taken against? If not, explain Lombardy to me, or new york.


It is a retarded thought train like your post that will have the outcome you note:

QuoteThe problem we all though face is that it's going to take a long time before governments will unilaterally trust the opinion of scientists again, and if this recession hits as expected, it's going to take generations before the general population would allow them to. With the problem of course being that should a proper Spanish Flu type virus emerge in the meantime, it will be extraordinarily destructive.

Scientists (and their cult like followers) would do well to recall the boy who cried wolf. We all learn it in primary school for a very good reason.

Viruses exhibit EXPONENTIAL growth. Do you understand what that means? You can't f**k about and have everything down to 5 sigma - by that stage everyone has already died.

The politicians (here and abroad) already dithered too long and held off shutting down travel for too long. Which then made the job of eradication all but impossible.


I think you're determined to miss my point here Radio.

Was Covid real? Yes.
Did it do damage? Yes.
Did closing down the economy help abate it's spread? Yes.

Nobody will deny these things.


But scientists were exceptionally quick and forceful to try to convince us that a virus they still do not understand was a global destroyer; the Spanish Flu Mark II. It's not. Nor is it going to be. Nor would it have been if left unchecked. Scientists do not get to play these cards on a whim, and they've just gone all in on a low pair.

That it has been on the loose in Europe since December comes as no surprise. In fact I'd be surprised if it wasn't around for much longer than that.

I'm sure someone somewhere will come back to me with half arsed, dubious and red-penned data to "prove" I'm wrong. All I have is little pieces of clear evidence. Such as that a Tory government which is pilloried by all and sundry for its approach, yet still doesn't need an overflow hospital in its largest and most diverse city.


Anyhow the point being, just in case you miss it again. The scientific community over blew this one. And then some. And then some more. We will likely regret it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 05, 2020, 12:14:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 05, 2020, 11:58:57 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 11:36:14 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 10:11:38 AM
If Covid continues to follow its current course, then somewhere along the line, scientists (and their cult like followers) are going to have to admit they misjudged this one, and maybe indeed watched Contagion one time too many.

I'd like them to do this. Science is a much more noble pursuit when there is an admission of weakness. Being the smartest epidemiologist in the world still doesn't make you a soothsayer.

The problem we all though face is that it's going to take a long time before governments will unilaterally trust the opinion of scientists again, and if this recession hits as expected, it's going to take generations before the general population would allow them to. With the problem of course being that should a proper Spanish Flu type virus emerge in the meantime, it will be extraordinarily destructive.

Scientists (and their cult like followers) would do well to recall the boy who cried wolf. We all learn it in primary school for a very good reason.

WHO - failed
CMOs - failed
UK Government - failed
Stormont - failed
Dublin - failed

Scientists definitely a lot to answer for.

Tail risk is like that Trailer. Nobody is ready for it. 2008 was the same.

Should have been. No excuse.
Because the measures that we took were delayed and only half arsed the peak has been longer and more people have died than was should have. They quite possibly could destroy a strong economy for many years.
Now the only way forward is to immediately relax restrictions and get everyone back to work. Trying to contain or eradicate this virus is pointless. We must learn to live with it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on May 05, 2020, 12:15:27 PM
Having a look at the increased death tolls per country and city, even with lockdowns, it seems fair to me to say that without pretty radical measures this has the potential to be an incredibly serious "Spanish flu like" disease. The excess mortality numbers for London for April 2020 (compared to a normal April) were worse than during the worst 4 week period of the Blitz, according to figures from the FT.


The fact that death rates only started jumping in line with registered Covid deaths a lot later than December I think debunks the myth that this was circulating in Europe freely in December. The number of deaths for pneumonia was actually below its 5 year average in the U.K. for the first few months of the year.

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1257589774648565760?s=21
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 05, 2020, 12:20:43 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on May 05, 2020, 12:15:27 PM
Having a look at the increased death tolls per country and city, even with lockdowns, it seems fair to me to say that without pretty radical measures this has the potential to be an incredibly serious "Spanish flu like" disease. The excess mortality numbers for London for April 2020 (compared to a normal April) were worse than during the worst 4 week period of the Blitz, according to figures from the FT.


The fact that death rates only started jumping in line with registered Covid deaths a lot later than December I think debunks the myth that this was circulating in Europe freely in December. The number of deaths for pneumonia was actually below its 5 year average in the U.K. for the first few months of the year.

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1257589774648565760?s=21

And what? That's an absolutely f**king stupid comparison. Can you compare the death rate on the titanic to Covid-19 please? Like f**k me.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 12:21:28 PM
Ogra the mortality rate has been officially confirmed at 0.26 so for every 1000 people that get infected 2.6 people die from it.
I think when scenes came out of Italy everyone around Europe started to panic
Now New Zealand not Australia would have seen the over played scenes from Italy. What did they do? Get on top of it. New Zealand NO new cases this past 2 days.
The virus was in France in December
Work that one out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:01:38 PM
But scientists were exceptionally quick and forceful to try to convince us that a virus they still do not understand was a global destroyer; the Spanish Flu Mark II. It's not. Nor is it going to be. Nor would it have been if left unchecked.

::)

Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:01:38 PM
I'm sure someone somewhere will come back to me with half arsed, dubious and red-penned data to "prove" I'm wrong. All I have is little pieces of clear evidence. Such as that a Tory government which is pilloried by all and sundry for its approach, yet still doesn't need an overflow hospital in its largest and most diverse city.

You do realise the need for that was reduced by lockdown measures?

If you want evidence for how bad it can be when even top rate western health services are overwhelmed look at Italy.

That is clear evidence of what could happen. In Lombardy the case fatality rate was over 18%. That is nearly 1 in 5 cases dying from it. There is of course the open question of how many had it and were not tested.


South Korea is a better example, with extensive testing and tracing, they had 253 deaths out of 10,804 cases, or 2.4%. I've seen places where its indicated the Spanish flu had a mortality rate of around 2.5%. I suppose that completely vindicates you that covid is ~0.1% "better".


If you think the measures taken were not justified - then sorry - but you don't have a fuckin clue what your talking about. The biggest problem with the measures taken is that they were not drastic enough and not early enough.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 12:24:09 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 12:21:28 PM
Ogra the mortality rate has been officially confirmed at 0.26 so for every 1000 people that get infected 2.6 people die from it.

Citation please.

Or are you going to f**k off under your rock again like you did when asked to produce a citation after proclaiming the WHO lauded Sweden's approach?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 05, 2020, 12:30:15 PM
Trailer and Smurf could outdo Karen on facebook with their virusian expertise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 12:33:08 PM
Radio how do you know lockdown saved life's? Are you listening to all the bullshitters at these press briefings? They have got everything wrong.
Now the first place that should have been on lockdown was carehomes. Nobody in nobody out.
Radio what's with the abuse calm down it's a discussion board
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on May 05, 2020, 12:39:37 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 12:20:43 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on May 05, 2020, 12:15:27 PM
Having a look at the increased death tolls per country and city, even with lockdowns, it seems fair to me to say that without pretty radical measures this has the potential to be an incredibly serious "Spanish flu like" disease. The excess mortality numbers for London for April 2020 (compared to a normal April) were worse than during the worst 4 week period of the Blitz, according to figures from the FT.


The fact that death rates only started jumping in line with registered Covid deaths a lot later than December I think debunks the myth that this was circulating in Europe freely in December. The number of deaths for pneumonia was actually below its 5 year average in the U.K. for the first few months of the year.

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1257589774648565760?s=21

And what? That's an absolutely f**king stupid comparison. Can you compare the death rate on the titanic to Covid-19 please? Like f**k me.

If you can't really work out the significance of that then there's no point debating with you... similar enough to most of your contributions to this board.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:40:13 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 12:33:08 PM
Radio how do you know lockdown saved life's? Are you listening to all the bullshitters at these press briefings? They have got everything wrong.
Now the first place that should have been on lockdown was carehomes. Nobody in nobody out.
Radio what's with the abuse calm down it's a discussion board

He doesn't.

He is, for whatever reasons, a Covid zealot.


Trying to get him to admit that there this a complex and grey scenario where nobody has definitive answers, is like asking a Christian hardliner to concede that God may not exist.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on May 05, 2020, 12:41:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:40:13 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 12:33:08 PM
Radio how do you know lockdown saved life's? Are you listening to all the bullshitters at these press briefings? They have got everything wrong.
Now the first place that should have been on lockdown was carehomes. Nobody in nobody out.
Radio what's with the abuse calm down it's a discussion board

He doesn't.

He is, for whatever reasons, a Covid zealot.


Trying to get him to admit that there this a complex and grey scenario where nobody has definitive answers, is like asking a Christian hardliner to concede that God may not exist.
So in this complex and grey scenario do you advocate caution and trying to prepare or just see how it goes?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on May 05, 2020, 12:43:30 PM
A "covid zealot"???

Christ, that's a new one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:45:21 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:01:38 PM
But scientists were exceptionally quick and forceful to try to convince us that a virus they still do not understand was a global destroyer; the Spanish Flu Mark II. It's not. Nor is it going to be. Nor would it have been if left unchecked.

::)

Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:01:38 PM
I'm sure someone somewhere will come back to me with half arsed, dubious and red-penned data to "prove" I'm wrong. All I have is little pieces of clear evidence. Such as that a Tory government which is pilloried by all and sundry for its approach, yet still doesn't need an overflow hospital in its largest and most diverse city.

If you think the measures taken were not justified - then sorry - but you don't have a fuckin clue what your talking about. The biggest problem with the measures taken is that they were not drastic enough and not early enough.


Although you will never be able to produce the data to back this up, you will never admit even a tiniest morsel of doubt in what you believe in.

That's called blind faith.

There is a wonderful irony in how men of science can so readily mimic  men of faith, when the situation suits.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Well said wobbler
No caution needed. What needed to be done in my opinion lock all carehomes down. Pay the staff extra to stay in the carehomes. And anyone over 65 in total lockdown for 8/12 weeks. Total lockdown no grey areas. If someone of the age below 65 living with someone over that age they must lockdown too.
But no put everyone into lockdown. Stop everything. The aftermath of this is going to be catastrophic but didn't need to be
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:56:53 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 05, 2020, 12:41:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:40:13 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 12:33:08 PM
Radio how do you know lockdown saved life's? Are you listening to all the bullshitters at these press briefings? They have got everything wrong.
Now the first place that should have been on lockdown was carehomes. Nobody in nobody out.
Radio what's with the abuse calm down it's a discussion board

He doesn't.

He is, for whatever reasons, a Covid zealot.


Trying to get him to admit that there this a complex and grey scenario where nobody has definitive answers, is like asking a Christian hardliner to concede that God may not exist.
So in this complex and grey scenario do you advocate caution and trying to prepare or just see how it goes?

Look we have gone down a path now. Whether I agreed with that path or not doesn't matter, I've followed it closely. That's what's citizens should do. So we should see it out.

But I should never be construed as the worry for scientists. I don't accept any situation as black and white, and when future pandemics come along, I'll address them with an open mind.

The problem is, not everyone is open minded. There is a sizeable population who will literally believe anything they hear, and follow any direction they are told, as long as they trust the source. Even if that source is as consistent as a runny turd; they will still follow.

Governments and media will not trust science after this. There will be dozens of studies of Sweden's approach undertaken in the next 5 years and each of them will produce different findings. Not different good. But different enough for politicians and the media to pay less heed to scientific advice.


As such, what I would advocate is that the scientific community is a bit more honest, starting now, about what they know. To reflect inwardly that maybe they don't know everything. To begin building bridges, whether they think they are needed now or not. To err is human.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on May 05, 2020, 12:58:44 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Well said wobbler
No caution needed. What needed to be done in my opinion lock all carehomes down. Pay the staff extra to stay in the carehomes. And anyone over 65 in total lockdown for 8/12 weeks. Total lockdown no grey areas. If someone of the age below 65 living with someone over that age they must lockdown too.
But no put everyone into lockdown. Stop everything. The aftermath of this is going to be catastrophic but didn't need to be

Will 8-12 weeks be enough? Surely they would then catch it from the general population when they are released!
What about those living with or looking after over 65's, do they get paid to stay locked down also?
What about people with underlying health conditions, should they undergo the same lock-down?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on May 05, 2020, 01:01:57 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:56:53 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 05, 2020, 12:41:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:40:13 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 12:33:08 PM
Radio how do you know lockdown saved life's? Are you listening to all the bullshitters at these press briefings? They have got everything wrong.
Now the first place that should have been on lockdown was carehomes. Nobody in nobody out.
Radio what's with the abuse calm down it's a discussion board

He doesn't.

He is, for whatever reasons, a Covid zealot.


Trying to get him to admit that there this a complex and grey scenario where nobody has definitive answers, is like asking a Christian hardliner to concede that God may not exist.
So in this complex and grey scenario do you advocate caution and trying to prepare or just see how it goes?

Look we have gone down a path now. Whether I agreed with that path or not doesn't matter, I've followed it closely. That's what's citizens should do. So we should see it out.

But I should never be construed as the worry for scientists. I don't accept any situation as black and white, and when future pandemics come along, I'll address them with an open mind.

The problem is, not everyone is open minded. There is a sizeable population who will literally believe anything they hear, and follow any direction they are told, as long as they trust the source. Even if that source is as consistent as a runny turd; they will still follow.

Governments and media will not trust science after this. There will be dozens of studies of Sweden's approach undertaken in the next 5 years and each of them will produce different findings. Not different good. But different enough for politicians and the media to pay less heed to scientific advice.


As such, what I would advocate is that the scientific community is a bit more honest, starting now, about what they know. To reflect inwardly that maybe they don't know everything. To begin building bridges, whether they think they are needed now or not. To err is human.

Is that scientific studies?  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on May 05, 2020, 01:02:26 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:56:53 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 05, 2020, 12:41:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:40:13 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 12:33:08 PM
Radio how do you know lockdown saved life's? Are you listening to all the bullshitters at these press briefings? They have got everything wrong.
Now the first place that should have been on lockdown was carehomes. Nobody in nobody out.
Radio what's with the abuse calm down it's a discussion board

He doesn't.

He is, for whatever reasons, a Covid zealot.


Trying to get him to admit that there this a complex and grey scenario where nobody has definitive answers, is like asking a Christian hardliner to concede that God may not exist.
So in this complex and grey scenario do you advocate caution and trying to prepare or just see how it goes?

Look we have gone down a path now. Whether I agreed with that path or not doesn't matter, I've followed it closely. That's what's citizens should do. So we should see it out.

But I should never be construed as the worry for scientists. I don't accept any situation as black and white, and when future pandemics come along, I'll address them with an open mind.

The problem is, not everyone is open minded. There is a sizeable population who will literally believe anything they hear, and follow any direction they are told, as long as they trust the source. Even if that source is as consistent as a runny turd; they will still follow.

Governments and media will not trust science after this. There will be dozens of studies of Sweden's approach undertaken in the next 5 years and each of them will produce different findings. Not different good. But different enough for politicians and the media to pay less heed to scientific advice.


As such, what I would advocate is that the scientific community is a but more honest, starting now, about what they know. To reflect inwardly that maybe they don't know everything.
Are "Scientists" as one great homogeneous body claiming they have all the answers?

If whichever Government came out and said "we don't know if this will work but sure we will give it a go" what would that do to compliance levels and how would the effectiveness of the measures then be critiqued for future pandemics?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 05, 2020, 01:02:36 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 05, 2020, 12:30:15 PM
Trailer and Smurf could outdo Karen on facebook with their virusian expertise.

Says you with 16000+ posts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 01:09:20 PM
Yes pay them. Give them extra whatever it takes.
Look at the money they have spent locking everyone down. It would have been a fraction of the cost to pay the over 60s.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 01:10:50 PM
No Leo, scientists are not one great homogenous body.

Nor are governments.

Nor are media.

But the groupings are easily understood, and as such save typing out dozens of words to achieve the same end meaning, unless of course you come across someone petty..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 05, 2020, 01:12:27 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 05, 2020, 01:02:26 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:56:53 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 05, 2020, 12:41:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:40:13 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 12:33:08 PM
Radio how do you know lockdown saved life's? Are you listening to all the bullshitters at these press briefings? They have got everything wrong.
Now the first place that should have been on lockdown was carehomes. Nobody in nobody out.
Radio what's with the abuse calm down it's a discussion board

He doesn't.

He is, for whatever reasons, a Covid zealot.


Trying to get him to admit that there this a complex and grey scenario where nobody has definitive answers, is like asking a Christian hardliner to concede that God may not exist.
So in this complex and grey scenario do you advocate caution and trying to prepare or just see how it goes?

Look we have gone down a path now. Whether I agreed with that path or not doesn't matter, I've followed it closely. That's what's citizens should do. So we should see it out.

But I should never be construed as the worry for scientists. I don't accept any situation as black and white, and when future pandemics come along, I'll address them with an open mind.

The problem is, not everyone is open minded. There is a sizeable population who will literally believe anything they hear, and follow any direction they are told, as long as they trust the source. Even if that source is as consistent as a runny turd; they will still follow.

Governments and media will not trust science after this. There will be dozens of studies of Sweden's approach undertaken in the next 5 years and each of them will produce different findings. Not different good. But different enough for politicians and the media to pay less heed to scientific advice.


As such, what I would advocate is that the scientific community is a but more honest, starting now, about what they know. To reflect inwardly that maybe they don't know everything.
Are "Scientists" as one great homogeneous body claiming they have all the answers?

If whichever Government came out and said "we don't know if this will work but sure we will give it a go" what would that do to compliance levels and how would the effectiveness of the measures then be critiqued for future pandemics?

Scientists definitely got this one wrong. What did Trump call the WHO? China's Foreign relation agency? There's a lot of truth in that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 05, 2020, 01:15:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:56:53 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 05, 2020, 12:41:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:40:13 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 12:33:08 PM
Radio how do you know lockdown saved life's? Are you listening to all the bullshitters at these press briefings? They have got everything wrong.
Now the first place that should have been on lockdown was carehomes. Nobody in nobody out.
Radio what's with the abuse calm down it's a discussion board

He doesn't.

He is, for whatever reasons, a Covid zealot.


Trying to get him to admit that there this a complex and grey scenario where nobody has definitive answers, is like asking a Christian hardliner to concede that God may not exist.
So in this complex and grey scenario do you advocate caution and trying to prepare or just see how it goes?

Look we have gone down a path now. Whether I agreed with that path or not doesn't matter, I've followed it closely. That's what's citizens should do. So we should see it out.

But I should never be construed as the worry for scientists. I don't accept any situation as black and white, and when future pandemics come along, I'll address them with an open mind.

The problem is, not everyone is open minded. There is a sizeable population who will literally believe anything they hear, and follow any direction they are told, as long as they trust the source. Even if that source is as consistent as a runny turd; they will still follow.

Governments and media will not trust science after this. There will be dozens of studies of Sweden's approach undertaken in the next 5 years and each of them will produce different findings. Not different good. But different enough for politicians and the media to pay less heed to scientific advice.


As such, what I would advocate is that the scientific community is a bit more honest, starting now, about what they know. To reflect inwardly that maybe they don't know everything. To begin building bridges, whether they think they are needed now or not. To err is human.

What scientists have you been listening to?

Any I've listened to, both in this and in the past (I've a pretty strong scientific education and maintain a keen interest in various fields, both professionally and out of personal interest) are generally very humble about the provisional nature of science in general and the limitations of what we know at any point in an unfolding event such as a pandemic of a novel virus. Science is an endeavor in which knowledge is accumulated in spurts, little by little, by ruling things out.

And just who do you propose we turn to in the future when responding to natural disasters if scientists have supposedly squandered the goodwill of the public?

Priests? Witch doctors?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 01:24:09 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 12:33:08 PM
Radio how do you know lockdown saved life's?

???

At this point - I don't know what else can be said. Your an idiot - and that's not an insult, its an observation.


Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 12:33:08 PM
Radio what's with the abuse calm down it's a discussion board

My threshold for dealing with idiots stops long before your level.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 01:29:33 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:40:13 PM
Trying to get him to admit that there this a complex and grey scenario where nobody has definitive answers, is like asking a Christian hardliner to concede that God may not exist.

Are you for real?

This is a very complex situation.

I'm simplifying a great deal here and its still light years beyond yourself and Smurfy.


Find any posts of mine that claims to have a definitive all encompassing way through this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 01:31:49 PM
J70 I'm not dismissing the role of scientists.

I'm dismissing the potential for a cauldron of scientists to influence the closure of borders/economies in future, as they have done on this occasion.

And I'm suggesting that if these same experts could now admit they jumped to conclusions, and inform that next time they will have a more measured approach, it might actually benefit their profession.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 01:32:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:45:21 PM
Although you will never be able to produce the data to back this up, you will never admit even a tiniest morsel of doubt in what you believe in.

Well, lets look at somewhere that didn't introduce lockdown early enough.

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3075002/coronavirus-italys-hospitals-overflow-dead-toll-tops-1000

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/09/italian-hospitals-short-beds-coronavirus-death-toll-jumps

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/italy-coronavirus-crisis-doctors-death-toll-hospital-latest-a9430551.html

https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/20/italy-suffocated-by-coronavirus-the-story-of-patients-and-doctors-in-the-grip-of-covid-19


But of course, probably not sufficient in your eyes.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on May 05, 2020, 01:34:22 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:56:53 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 05, 2020, 12:41:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:40:13 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 12:33:08 PM
Radio how do you know lockdown saved life's? Are you listening to all the bullshitters at these press briefings? They have got everything wrong.
Now the first place that should have been on lockdown was carehomes. Nobody in nobody out.
Radio what's with the abuse calm down it's a discussion board

He doesn't.

He is, for whatever reasons, a Covid zealot.


Trying to get him to admit that there this a complex and grey scenario where nobody has definitive answers, is like asking a Christian hardliner to concede that God may not exist.
So in this complex and grey scenario do you advocate caution and trying to prepare or just see how it goes?

Look we have gone down a path now. Whether I agreed with that path or not doesn't matter, I've followed it closely. That's what's citizens should do. So we should see it out.

But I should never be construed as the worry for scientists. I don't accept any situation as black and white, and when future pandemics come along, I'll address them with an open mind.

The problem is, not everyone is open minded. There is a sizeable population who will literally believe anything they hear, and follow any direction they are told, as long as they trust the source. Even if that source is as consistent as a runny turd; they will still follow.

Governments and media will not trust science after this. There will be dozens of studies of Sweden's approach undertaken in the next 5 years and each of them will produce different findings. Not different good. But different enough for politicians and the media to pay less heed to scientific advice.


As such, what I would advocate is that the scientific community is a bit more honest, starting now, about what they know. To reflect inwardly that maybe they don't know everything. To begin building bridges, whether they think they are needed now or not. To err is human.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/05/trust-in-scientists-grows-as-fake-coronavirus-news-rises-uk-poll-finds
Looks like more people are starting to have faith in scientists after all and rightly so. It's not scientists who've got us into this mess, it's politicians. In countries where politicians have taken the correct precautionary advice from scientists and been less worried about the economic impact those countries have had tremendous success in combating the pandemic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 01:37:01 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 01:31:49 PM
J70 I'm not dismissing the role of scientists.

Yes you are.

You are also doing it from a position of total ignorance.


Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 01:31:49 PM
J70 I'm not dismissing the role of scientists.

I'm dismissing the potential for a cauldron of scientists to influence the closure of borders/economies in future, as they have done on this occasion.

What is dismissing the influence of if not dismissing the opinion of?



Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 01:31:49 PMAnd I'm suggesting that if these same experts could now admit they jumped to conclusions, and inform that next time they will have a more measured approach, it might actually benefit their profession.

ITS AN EXPONENTIAL GROWTH.

Do you understand what that means?


If the UK & Ire had shutdown in mid-Feb, banned ski trips to Italy and enforced strict quarantine on all inbound travellers - we'd already be out the far side of this and in a position similar to New Zealand.

As far as viral epidemics/pandemics go - the earlier & stronger you act, the better it is. That is a maxim that will never change.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 05, 2020, 01:38:27 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 01:31:49 PM
J70 I'm not dismissing the role of scientists.

I'm dismissing the potential for a cauldron of scientists to influence the closure of borders/economies in future, as they have done on this occasion.

And I'm suggesting that if these same experts could now admit they jumped to conclusions, and inform that next time they will have a more measured approach, it might actually benefit their profession.

Jumped to what conclusions?

What would a "measured approach" entail and on what would they have based recommendations for such?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 01:42:24 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:56:53 PM
As such, what I would advocate is that the scientific community is a bit more honest, starting now, about what they know. To reflect inwardly that maybe they don't know everything. To begin building bridges, whether they think they are needed now or not. To err is human.

That is a laugh.

If any of those in front of a camera were to start listing off their assumptions and caveats in drawing their inferences, your head would melt before they got 3 mins in... my head would melt never mind yours!


... and 99.99999% of people would have ignored the crux of the message.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 05, 2020, 01:44:33 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on May 05, 2020, 11:45:33 AM
Poverty kills.  Compare the life expectancy of a person living in any inner city in the UK with high unemployment to a more affluent area and the average life expectancy can be down by as much as 10 years.  Mental health issues, depression, high alcohol and drug use, poor diet etc. are all synonymous with areas of high unemployment.

Is depression, drug use or poor diet any more common in Slovenia than in the UK, although it is not as prosperous? Many of these people are unemployed exactly because they are taking drugs or have mental health issues.

The point is that left unchecked this disease would have killed just as many as Spanish flu.
The response to it has not been ideal, because the advance planning was not done. It isn't a question of listening to the sciencetists now, they should have been consulted years ago and a proper plan put in place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 01:51:38 PM
You honestly couldn't make this up...

UK governement's Chief Scientific Officer

🔺March 9th banning flights would "not be effective"
🔺March 12th that football games were "low risk", the day after Madrid fans travelled to Liverpool


Now what changed? After all these scientist knew late January about this pandemic

No wonder all faith has been lost in the uk governments scientific approach
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 01:57:51 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 01:51:38 PM
You honestly couldn't make this up...

UK governement's Chief Scientific Officer

🔺March 9th banning flights would "not be effective"
🔺March 12th that football games were "low risk", the day after Madrid fans travelled to Liverpool


Now what changed? After all these scientist knew late January about this pandemic

No wonder all faith has been lost in the uk governments scientific approach

Oh I've no problem with you lambasting Chris Whitty & Patrick Vallance.

Their response has been inept, their early steering has been shambolic and they have not held the government to task at all. All too often, they have allowed scientific recommendation to be bent to political will.

The post-mortem into this will not reflect well on them whatsoever.


So yeah, if you are bounding science and scientists by the performance of SAGE, the UK CMO and UK CSO - then yes - I can see where you, trailer & wobbler are coming from. But if you look to competent countries, the likes of Germany, or those that have had experience of SARS and learned, Singapore or South Korea (both with highly regarded scientific communities in themselves anyway), then you'll see that politics and economics have to take a firm back seat - indeed - the quicker they take a back seat the sooner things will sort.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on May 05, 2020, 01:58:17 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 01:09:20 PM
Yes pay them. Give them extra whatever it takes.
Look at the money they have spent locking everyone down. It would have been a fraction of the cost to pay the over 60s.
For how long, If takes 2-3 years to develop a vaccine and make it generally available should they be locked down until then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: charlieTully on May 05, 2020, 02:00:40 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 12:33:08 PM
Radio how do you know lockdown saved life's? Are you listening to all the bullshitters at these press briefings? They have got everything wrong.
Now the first place that should have been on lockdown was carehomes. Nobody in nobody out.
Radio what's with the abuse calm down it's a discussion board

No one in or out of care homes? For the length of the lock down? Nurses care assistants, cooks, admin staff etc etc, in every care home don't get to leave for the entirety of a lock down. What about their own children? I don't think you have thought that one out Smurph.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on May 05, 2020, 02:07:17 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 01:10:50 PM
No Leo, scientists are not one great homogenous body.

Nor are governments.

Nor are media.

But the groupings are easily understood, and as such save typing out dozens of words to achieve the same end meaning, unless of course you come across someone petty..

So when you say scientists were exceptionally quick and forceful to try to convince us that a virus they still do not understand was a global destroyer you don't mean all scientists and when you say people will lose faith in scientists you don't mean all people and you don't mean all scientists.

Would a statement of some scientists overreacted and some people will stop listening to those scientists as a result be more accurate?
Equally some politicians under reacted and some people will stop listening to all Scientists as a result.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on May 05, 2020, 02:07:57 PM
I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank Radiogaagaa , your input  and knowledge here is remarkable , I come to this thread daily  to read your posts .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 05, 2020, 02:36:18 PM
Can someone please explain who the yanks are borrowing the 3 trillion dollars from?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 02:37:57 PM
Radio we are very much in TLDR territory now, so I'll leave you for today with my own.


To date, Covid is a virus that:

Kills men more easily than women, except it doesn't.

Finishes off smokers in record time. Unless that smoker happens to be French, in which case the virus runs away from his nicotine infested body.

Doesn't affect children, except it does, or only very little, maybe not enough to worry about.

Gets killed by heat / the sun, except it doesn't. Or maybe it does.

Can convince medical professionals across the world to accurately record the cause of death as it, even when it's not it, or not it, even if it is it.

Doesn't affect Swedish people in the same way because Swedish people are all decent, law-abiding, community conscious sorts who naturally will distance because they're asked to. Covid has been with us that long now that he/she loves a good stereotype too.

Respects the fact that Germans, even in major cities with rampant depravity and poverty, and borders absolutely everywhere across Europe, are ultra-conscientious and will do exactly what they're told. And will of course turn a blind eye to the possibility that the practical Germans could just see it sensible to go back to work as soon as possible, and bend data to suit their needs.

Has a particular dislike for anyone who has a tactile disposition. Which actually only means Italians. No other nationality hugs, kisses, or holds hands.

Can live dormant in you for 10 days. No, a fortnight. Maybe even 3 weeks. Maybe even forever.

You will regret getting; it reduces you to a crumbling, sweating shell. Unless you're one of those who had it and didn't know.

You can become immune to after contracting. Oh no actually, you won't . Or maybe you will. Won't. Will. Won't. Will.

Has a particular dislike for BAME folk. Oh no it doesn't, it's just following genera health patterns there.

Will make mincemeat out of populations in smoggy towns. Except it hasn't really done this either, apart from in Italy. Those damn tactile Italians.

Like the bad guy in the thriller movie, will not really be dead, until you kill it twice.  Don't turn your back folks.

Has been living among us for quite some time. But has only recently worked out that it can kill.



You can write exponential in fifty foot high letters for all I care. We've been fed so many theories and lies about Covid at this stage, but you still remain unbreakable on your lockdown stance, unshakable in your conviction that this mystery could have been solved if we had have trusted science immediately. The one constant in an ever changing environment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 05, 2020, 02:59:04 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 02:37:57 PM
Radio we are very much in TLDR territory now, so I'll leave you for today with my own.


To date, Covid is a virus that:

Kills men more easily than women, except it doesn't.

Finishes off smokers in record time. Unless that smoker happens to be French, in which case the virus runs away from his nicotine infested body.

Doesn't affect children, except it does, or only very little, maybe not enough to worry about.

Gets killed by heat / the sun, except it doesn't. Or maybe it does.

Can convince medical professionals across the world to accurately record the cause of death as it, even when it's not it, or not it, even if it is it.

Doesn't affect Swedish people in the same way because Swedish people are all decent, law-abiding, community conscious sorts who naturally will distance because they're asked to. Covid has been with us that long now that he/she loves a good stereotype too.

Respects the fact that Germans, even in major cities with rampant depravity and poverty, and borders absolutely everywhere across Europe, are ultra-conscientious and will do exactly what they're told. And will of course turn a blind eye to the possibility that the practical Germans could just see it sensible to go back to work as soon as possible, and bend data to suit their needs.

Has a particular dislike for anyone who has a tactile disposition. Which actually only means Italians. No other nationality hugs, kisses, or holds hands.

Can live dormant in you for 10 days. No, a fortnight. Maybe even 3 weeks. Maybe even forever.

You will regret getting; it reduces you to a crumbling, sweating shell. Unless you're one of those who had it and didn't know.

You can become immune to after contracting. Oh no actually, you won't . Or maybe you will. Won't. Will. Won't. Will.

Has a particular dislike for BAME folk. Oh no it doesn't, it's just following genera health patterns there.

Will make mincemeat out of populations in smoggy towns. Except it hasn't really done this either, apart from in Italy. Those damn tactile Italians.

Like the bad guy in the thriller movie, will not really be dead, until you kill it twice.  Don't turn your back folks.

Has been living among us for quite some time. But has only recently worked out that it can kill.



You can write exponential in fifty foot high letters for all I care. We've been fed so many theories and lies about Covid at this stage, but you still remain unbreakable on your lockdown stance, unshakable in your conviction that this mystery could have been solved if we had have trusted science immediately. The one constant in an ever changing environment.

We are truly in Trump territory here, there are relatively subtle issues which affect this pandemic but you want everything put into an impossible black and white. In GAA terms you could have statements like big men are better than small men, which are essentially true and useful although there may be counterexamples.

Perhaps the problem is not science, but that some people are unable to understand it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 03:01:40 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 02:37:57 PM
Radio we are very much in TLDR territory now, so I'll leave you for today with my own.

To date, Covid is a virus that:

You can write exponential in fifty foot high letters for all I care. We've been fed so many theories and lies about Covid at this stage,

You've read all that shite in the media. Sure they are even more fuckin clueless about this than their usual.

If I asked you to produce a peer reviewed paper stating any one of the above - we'd no doubt find it caveated to hell and back.


The media have done the public a major disservice throughout this. Both in their failure to hold the government's feet to the fire and in their failure to get competent people to report on the matter.

Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 02:37:57 PM
but you still remain unbreakable on your lockdown stance,

I want lockdown over ASAP. I'm looking at personal financial armageddon by the start of Autumn.

But it can't lift until there is the structures and mechanisms in place to prevent it exploding up into a bigger 2nd wave.

If I had to choose between losing the house and thousands dead - its only money and I'll get on my feet eventually.


Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 02:37:57 PM
unshakable in your conviction that this mystery could have been solved if we had have trusted science immediately. The one constant in an ever changing environment.

You speak as if there is a definitive solution to this that comes without pain and hardship.

SARS or MERS in comparison were eradicated quickly through luck and/or good work - but I'm sure if you asked any of the families of those that died they might disagree with it being "solved" without suffering.

Furthermore, I already said earlier that if we all waited until reaching definitive conclusions - the pandemic would have swept through and done its damage already. Good people are making the best informed decisions they can given the information available - and there will be occasions they get it wrong* - but its far better than the alternative.

*especially if they are bending to politics


Perhaps you need to ask yourself - "why has a virus that has a fatality rate of 4.2% in Germany** not devastating the world like the Spanish flu did?" Then perhaps you need to look at all the things happening, from even lowly disinfectant, informed advice that is available via TV, radio or phone, to antibody tests, NAAT tests, drugs & ventilators, then wonder... "what has science done for us lately?"

**using Germany as they have a high testing rate so more likely a more reflective mortality rate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 03:09:29 PM
Armaghniac, I'm mystified that you're trying to drop the "you want everything in black and white" hammer on me, when fundamentally what I'm doing is challenging science to be reflective and honest in what has happened to date.


But I guess it's largely explained by your other comment. It's an exceptionally common trait in those who blindly follow science, to decry the intelligence of those who don't.

Enjoy your superior knowledge kid.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 05, 2020, 03:17:15 PM
I'm just mystified as to what you scientist-skeptics think SHOULD have happened.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dec on May 05, 2020, 03:27:51 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on May 05, 2020, 02:36:18 PM
Can someone please explain who the yanks are borrowing the 3 trillion dollars from?

Their children and grandchildren.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 05, 2020, 03:34:20 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 03:09:29 PM
Armaghniac, I'm mystified that you're trying to drop the "you want everything in black and white" hammer on me, when fundamentally what I'm doing is challenging science to be reflective and honest in what has happened to date.


But I guess it's largely explained by your other comment. It's an exceptionally common trait in those who blindly follow science, to decry the intelligence of those who don't.

Enjoy your superior knowledge kid.

I don't blindly follow science. But for instance you said
QuoteGets killed by heat / the sun, except it doesn't. Or maybe it does.

any research I have seen shows that Covid19 is adversely affected by heat and sun, but not enough to stop it. Why did you pose a question about it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 05, 2020, 03:39:02 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on May 05, 2020, 02:36:18 PM
Can someone please explain who the yanks are borrowing the 3 trillion dollars from?

Best not to look under that rock.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 05, 2020, 03:48:56 PM
I think Karen from facebook knows more about viruses, pandemics etc than Wobbler.
As for Smurf and Trailer....
They make Trump sound knowledgeable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:00:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 05, 2020, 03:17:15 PM
I'm just mystified as to what you scientist-skeptics think SHOULD have happened.

Look these things are much easier with hindsight than foresight, but I'd think that this would have achieved similar outcomes, but with less potential for economic destruction:

- keeping schools and universities open.
- enforced, paid furlough for those aged 55+ and those with respiratory issues, only.
- enforced quarantine/house arrest for those aged 70+, or with any substantial medical condition, only.
- blanket quarantine of care homes.

Along with social distancing, and significantly reduced trading conditions for bars, cafes, restaurants, hotels.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on May 05, 2020, 04:01:14 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 03:09:29 PM
Armaghniac, I'm mystified that you're trying to drop the "you want everything in black and white" hammer on me, when fundamentally what I'm doing is challenging science to be reflective and honest in what has happened to date.


But I guess it's largely explained by your other comment. It's an exceptionally common trait in those who blindly follow science, to decry the intelligence of those who don't.

Enjoy your superior knowledge kid.
;D ;D ;D This is a cracker. Maybe if the car industries weren't blindly following science we would all be driving hover cars by now. Maybe if NASA wasn't doing the same we would have colonised Mars by now. Maybe we could have increased live expectancy, lower infant mortality rates and so on. ;D  Jesus Christ how could you have any reasoned discussion when your coming out with that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on May 05, 2020, 04:12:30 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:00:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 05, 2020, 03:17:15 PM
I'm just mystified as to what you scientist-skeptics think SHOULD have happened.

Look these things are much easier with hindsight than foresight, but I'd think that this would have achieved similar outcomes, but with less potential for economic destruction:

- keeping schools and universities open.
- enforced, paid furlough for those aged 55+ and those with respiratory issues, only.
- enforced quarantine/house arrest for those aged 70+, or with any substantial medical condition, only.
- blanket quarantine of care homes.

Along with social distancing, and significantly reduced trading conditions for bars, cafes, restaurants, hotels.
Even if you didn't think this virus would have been as bad as predicted without lockdown measures. The question you need to ask is would it have been acceptable to have our health service professionals completely overwhelmed, never mind the moral dilemma of allowing our most vunerable to bear the brunt of it? Surely you have even all videos of nurses doctors, care home staff in tears at what they are facing. And that's with measures taken to stem the flow in to the hospitals. Would you consider it acceptable to increase that carnage on them to reduce the economic impacts?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 05, 2020, 04:16:05 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:00:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 05, 2020, 03:17:15 PM
I'm just mystified as to what you scientist-skeptics think SHOULD have happened.

Look these things are much easier with hindsight than foresight, but I'd think that this would have achieved similar outcomes, but with less potential for economic destruction:

- keeping schools and universities open.
- enforced, paid furlough for those aged 55+ and those with respiratory issues, only.
- enforced quarantine/house arrest for those aged 70+, or with any substantial medical condition, only.
- blanket quarantine of care homes.

Along with social distancing, and significantly reduced trading conditions for bars, cafes, restaurants, hotels.

Assuming for the sake of argument that that protocol would have been a successful response (not obvious to me), at what point was it or should it have been an option based on the evidence available at the time?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 05, 2020, 04:26:45 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:00:45 PM

- keeping schools and universities open.
- enforced, paid furlough for those aged 55+ and those with respiratory issues, only.

the problem here is that you have just removed one third of the staff in the schools and universities.

Quote
- blanket quarantine of care homes.

A lot of people would agree with this. Let's hope lessons were learned.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:34:50 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 05, 2020, 04:01:14 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 03:09:29 PM
Armaghniac, I'm mystified that you're trying to drop the "you want everything in black and white" hammer on me, when fundamentally what I'm doing is challenging science to be reflective and honest in what has happened to date.


But I guess it's largely explained by your other comment. It's an exceptionally common trait in those who blindly follow science, to decry the intelligence of those who don't.

Enjoy your superior knowledge kid.
;D ;D ;D This is a cracker. Maybe if the car industries weren't blindly following science we would all be driving hover cars by now. Maybe if NASA wasn't doing the same we would have colonised Mars by now. Maybe we could have increased live expectancy, lower infant mortality rates and so on. ;D  Jesus Christ how could you have any reasoned discussion when your coming out with that.

Now if you can use that scientific brain of yours to see the "blindly" part of "blindly following science", you should immediately begin to feel more foolish about what you're written.

If not, let's have a look at the Y2K bug for a while.

Science, by the way, is brilliant. Blindly following any path though, that's not so clever.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 05, 2020, 04:37:29 PM

BBC News - Coronavirus: France's first known case 'was in December'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52526554
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 05, 2020, 04:37:44 PM
The Y2K bug?? What has it got to do with anything?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on May 05, 2020, 04:40:20 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:00:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 05, 2020, 03:17:15 PM
I'm just mystified as to what you scientist-skeptics think SHOULD have happened.

Look these things are much easier with hindsight than foresight, but I'd think that this would have achieved similar outcomes, but with less potential for economic destruction:

- keeping schools and universities open.
- enforced, paid furlough for those aged 55+ and those with respiratory issues, only.
- enforced quarantine/house arrest for those aged 70+, or with any substantial medical condition, only.
- blanket quarantine of care homes.

Along with social distancing, and significantly reduced trading conditions for bars, cafes, restaurants, hotels.
Perhaps you are right, hopefully We can get the answers to all this sooner rather than later and get back to normal. I also hope that the belief in science is not diminished by the ineptitude and self interest of politicians with one eye on elections and their funding nor the sensationalism of some elements of the media who were more interested in clicks than facts as clicks and likes pay the bills.

However the question is how sure are you? Would you be willing to bet your life, your parents lives that you are right?
How sure would you have been 8 or even 5 weeks ago?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:45:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 05, 2020, 04:16:05 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:00:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 05, 2020, 03:17:15 PM
I'm just mystified as to what you scientist-skeptics think SHOULD have happened.

Look these things are much easier with hindsight than foresight, but I'd think that this would have achieved similar outcomes, but with less potential for economic destruction:

- keeping schools and universities open.
- enforced, paid furlough for those aged 55+ and those with respiratory issues, only.
- enforced quarantine/house arrest for those aged 70+, or with any substantial medical condition, only.
- blanket quarantine of care homes.

Along with social distancing, and significantly reduced trading conditions for bars, cafes, restaurants, hotels.

Assuming for the sake of argument that that protocol would have been a successful response (not obvious to me), at what point was it or should it have been an option based on the evidence available at the time?

Based on conversations had on this thread in early March, it would have been largely assumed (though still patchy) at that stage that older people and those with respiratory conditions were exceptionally high risk, compared to the rest of the population.

Closing down the schools largely forced the closure of the economy, for without grandparents to call upon, all too many of us would have been forced to choose family over work.

I can't emphasise this enough as enjoying the luxury of hindsight, but as we now expect schools to be closed until September, plus the turmoil over grades, transfers and graduations, I would also expect the governments now regret closing schools.

The scientific recommendation at the time was for a full lockdown.

Based on the death rates demographics, it was possibly a recommendation too much.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 05, 2020, 04:50:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 05, 2020, 04:37:44 PM
The Y2K bug?? What has it got to do with anything?

It's another example of a large scale response to a problem taking place and, after the corrections were made, a segment of people turning around and saying, after the fact and after the solutions being brought to bear that there was no real problem in the first place.

Not sure that's the way he meant it though!

You get the same shit with anti-environmentalists pointing to SO2 reductions from power plants or the Montreal Protocol and their subsequent effect for the better as proof that neither acid rain or stratospheric ozone depletion were ever problems to begin with.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:51:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 05, 2020, 04:37:44 PM
The Y2K bug?? What has it got to do with anything?

Do you just pick out words, or do you read threads?

I've been pointing out repeatedly that blind faith in science can impair judgement. HiMucker has decided I'm an oaf. I'm merely pointing out here that the Y2K bug cost billions, fixing a problem that did not exist, because of a blind faith in science.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 04:59:44 PM
Wobbler has summed it all up brilliantly
Spot on in everything he says
The UK government are a shambles
Boris locked us down for 3 weeks and then another 3 weeks which ended yesterday but he isn't making a statement until Sunday. 6 extra days that seem to be brushed aside. Where has those 6 days gone?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 04:59:45 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 03:09:29 PMIt's an exceptionally common trait in those who blindly follow science, to decry the intelligence of those who don't.

If you'd care to look back through the thread, you'll observe that those you are accusing of "blindly following science" were outraged at the UK response which was supposedly "following the science".


Feb 26th #142
Quote from: RadioGAAGAAThe context is that the Chinese have completely isolated vast areas of the country. The Western world will absolutely not be as quick to do that - both between govts not ordering it and people not accepting it. At this point, I assume its out across Europe and indeed within Ireland (the ski-trippers at midterm will have brought it back and spread).

Italy probably has in excess of 1000 people with it (between diagnosed and yet to be diagnosed) - and there are discussions about maybe closing the border. By the time they do decide to, that horse will have long since bolted and foaled.


March 5th #389
Quote from: thewobblerBut why stop there.... when you could close down a whole country  instead?

Except you can't.

People always need water, food, heat/fuel, shelter. They occasionally need medicine and medical care. They don't need human interaction (even broadband interaction might suffice) per se, but will slowly crawl up the walls without it, creating mental health issues. Education isn't essential, but childminding when schools are closed, is. And the sad reality of life is that you need to earn money to pay for all of the above.

When you're asking "why didn't they just shut down this single essential service?", it's not that simple. Is it the role of government to arbitrarily decide which services (and therefore jobs) remain fully open, partially open, or closed? How do they decide this? How do they decide which livelihoods to f**k with entirely, partially, or not at all? But more importantly, why would they set the wheels in motion for society falling apart?  For if you close air travel, you must close ports. You close ports, you kill haulage. You kill haulage, you kill every retail industry eventually, and some overnight. Who pays all the people affected? Can we really expect our lazy over-entitled public sector to stand up and make, then implement an emergency plan to ensure that families aren't financially destroyed? I mean they'll be the only ones left working within a few weeks. Except there's no fuel in petrol stations, no food in the shops. So even if they want to go to work, they can't. And at that point, why administer payments to anyone anyway? What are they going to buy?

12th March - Ireland goes into lockdown.
24th March - UK goes into lockdown.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 05, 2020, 05:02:27 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:51:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 05, 2020, 04:37:44 PM
The Y2K bug?? What has it got to do with anything?

Do you just pick out words, or do you read threads?

I've been pointing out repeatedly that blind faith in science can impair judgement. HiMucker has decided I'm an oaf. I'm merely pointing out here that the Y2K bug cost billions, fixing a problem that did not exist, because of a blind faith in science.

You're very defensive.

I work in IT and I was interested to see how you correlated Y2K with any of this given I work in software.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:04:00 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:45:29 PMI would also expect the governments now regret closing schools.

Absolutely not.

1 family contracts virus.

Their kid goes into school.

30 kids contract virus.

30 families contract virus.

The siblings of those 30 families go into school.

30^x kids contract virus

30^x families contract virus

Health service overwhelmed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:05:08 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:51:24 PMI'm merely pointing out here that the Y2K bug cost billions, fixing a problem that did not exist, because of a blind faith in science.

You have proof that the problem did not exist as opposed to the potential problems being fixed as a result of the money spent on them?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 05, 2020, 05:05:53 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:04:00 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:45:29 PMI would also expect the governments now regret closing schools.

Absolutely not.

1 family contracts virus.

Their kid goes into school.

30 kids contract virus.

30 families contract virus.

The siblings of those 30 families go into school.

30^x kids contract virus

30^x families contract virus

Health service overwhelmed.

All the evidence from the outset though was that the virus doesn't affect children. It's since been shown that they don't even carry it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 05:06:49 PM
Have you got the proof that would have happened radio?
Or is that the scientists saying that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:07:04 PM
Quote from: five points on May 05, 2020, 05:05:53 PM
All the evidence from the outset though was that the virus doesn't affect children. It's since been shown that they don't even carry it.

WTF.

They do get it, they do carry it. Kids have died from it.

A higher proportion of them will have mild symptoms compared to adults, but that does not stop them carrying and spreading it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 05:07:45 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:05:08 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:51:24 PMI'm merely pointing out here that the Y2K bug cost billions, fixing a problem that did not exist, because of a blind faith in science.

You have proof that the problem did not exist as opposed to the potential problems being fixed as a result of the money spent on them?

Italy and South Korea provided that "proof".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on May 05, 2020, 05:09:02 PM
anyone reminded of "science is a bitch" from its always sunny after reading the last few pages...

fair play to those responding to thewobbler et al.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:11:02 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 05:06:49 PM
Have you got the proof that would have happened radio?
Or is that the scientists saying that

Scientists saying what?

That if the year counter is two digits only, i.e. "99", it won't hit a problem when it gets to "00"?

I was recently working on an aircraft engine-airframe software problem kinda pertinent to this where time updates were intermittently spiking - the code was essentially set up to follow "if newTime > oldTime: updateTime & set oldTime = newTime". Solved by setting a tolerance on the difference between oldTime & newTime - which was not my preferred solution but anywayz


Now, an aircraft is flying 31st December 1999 at 23:59 and the clock ticks over.

What happens the above?

[We weren't using datestamps, but instead timestamps since epoch, so it would have been OK for us - but many other software stacks would have been vulnerable.]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:11:47 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 05:07:45 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:05:08 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:51:24 PMI'm merely pointing out here that the Y2K bug cost billions, fixing a problem that did not exist, because of a blind faith in science.

You have proof that the problem did not exist as opposed to the potential problems being fixed as a result of the money spent on them?

Italy and South Korea provided that "proof".

Of the Y2K bug? Please provide a link to enlighten me.

Or are you talking about COVID?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on May 05, 2020, 05:31:37 PM
Brits still trying to justify their death rate standing in Europe as not too bad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:38:10 PM
Quote from: ONeill on May 05, 2020, 05:31:37 PM
Brits still trying to justify their death rate standing in Europe as not too bad.

They've got it so horribly wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on May 05, 2020, 05:42:40 PM
Fella from the Daily Mail there at the press briefing asking about obesity and whether people should think about going on diets. Top class.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 05:46:58 PM
Dominic Raab stands up at the press briefings talking as if they have done a great job
They hit the target off one hundred thousand tests on Friday and haven't hit that target again? Why are they not getting ripped to shreds in the press.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 05, 2020, 05:48:45 PM
They didn't even hit it. About 19k of them were in the post.

The press are a joke. The british government should be getting torn apart. A few are starting to do this abroad - ny times and there's a big aussie paper too.

The press are in the governments, or someone's, back pocket.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 05, 2020, 05:49:51 PM

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-05/mutant-coronavirus-has-emerged-more-contagious-than-original?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 05, 2020, 05:50:00 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 05, 2020, 05:44:05 PM
Quote from: five points on May 05, 2020, 05:05:53 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:04:00 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:45:29 PMI would also expect the governments now regret closing schools.

Absolutely not.

1 family contracts virus.

Their kid goes into school.

30 kids contract virus.

30 families contract virus.

The siblings of those 30 families go into school.

30^x kids contract virus

30^x families contract virus

Health service overwhelmed.

All the evidence from the outset though was that the virus doesn't affect children. It's since been shown that they don't even carry it.
Children don't carry it?

Not sure where he is getting his info from, but there have been documented deaths among children in the US, while various countries are now seeing kids with an inflammatory syndrome called Kawasaki Disease which they think is probably linked to COVID. 15 cases in NYC.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on May 05, 2020, 05:50:15 PM
It's mind numbing. The press have all day to think of a question. It's usually.... give us a date for something in the future. Or... From the public... When can I hug my grandson?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 05, 2020, 05:50:59 PM
23 more deaths, 211 new cases in the 26.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:54:31 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 05:46:58 PM
Dominic Raab stands up at the press briefings talking as if they have done a great job
They hit the target off one hundred thousand tests on Friday and haven't hit that target again? Why are they not getting ripped to shreds in the press.

Did you not hear how they "hit" it?

They sent out ~30,000 test kits to various places - and counted that as a completed test.


[Never mind that the chokepoint is often the labs turning around the result of a sample.]


If I was a journo in the conference, I'd have called him a straight up liar and tell him I'd continue to preface any report on him as him being a liar until he retracted that statement.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:59:52 PM
Quote from: ONeill on May 05, 2020, 05:50:15 PM
It's mind numbing. The press have all day to think of a question. It's usually.... give us a date for something in the future. Or... From the public... When can I hug my grandson?

Q: "Leaving aside timelines, what are the steps that are needed to get things back on their feet?"

Q:"Why are your testing targets only half that of Germany?"

Q:"Why are medics continuing to have to buy their own PPE? How come they can obtain it in their limited spare time outside of work whereas you with your legions of civil servants cannot?"

Q:"What PPE providers are you in contact with? Here are additional providers that have contacted me saying they cannot get through to your civil servants. I will be talking to them tomorrow to verify they have been contacted by your minions, if they haven't expect I will expect a full explanation of why not."


Its long past time the press started getting a little hostile, grew a set of balls and challenged their lies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on May 05, 2020, 06:04:17 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:34:50 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 05, 2020, 04:01:14 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 03:09:29 PM
Armaghniac, I'm mystified that you're trying to drop the "you want everything in black and white" hammer on me, when fundamentally what I'm doing is challenging science to be reflective and honest in what has happened to date.


But I guess it's largely explained by your other comment. It's an exceptionally common trait in those who blindly follow science, to decry the intelligence of those who don't.

Enjoy your superior knowledge kid.
;D ;D ;D This is a cracker. Maybe if the car industries weren't blindly following science we would all be driving hover cars by now. Maybe if NASA wasn't doing the same we would have colonised Mars by now. Maybe we could have increased live expectancy, lower infant mortality rates and so on. ;D  Jesus Christ how could you have any reasoned discussion when your coming out with that.

Now if you can use that scientific brain of yours to see the "blindly" part of "blindly following science", you should immediately begin to feel more foolish about what you're written.

If not, let's have a look at the Y2K bug for a while.

Science, by the way, is brilliant. Blindly following any path though, that's not so clever.
Another belter ;D
Do yourself a favour and talk to anybody involved in IT and listen to their response if you think it wasnt a real issue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on May 05, 2020, 06:36:11 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:51:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 05, 2020, 04:37:44 PM
The Y2K bug?? What has it got to do with anything?

Do you just pick out words, or do you read threads?

I've been pointing out repeatedly that blind faith in science can impair judgement. HiMucker has decided I'm an oaf. I'm merely pointing out here that the Y2K bug cost billions, fixing a problem that did not exist, because of a blind faith in science.

Maybe the billions spent fixing the problem prevented it from existing. That's why faith in science is a good thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 06:40:02 PM
Patrick Valance throwing the British government under the bus
More testing should have happened earlier but for one reason or another it didn't
That's the start of it
Under the bus

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on May 05, 2020, 06:45:11 PM
Anyone else detecting a growing gap between UK Ministers and the scientific advisers standing alongside. By Boris's own logic, the public will only see the simple message - the UK has the highest death rate in Europe. Looks like that is just going to get worse so they are screwed and the cracks are appearing.  In due course there'll be any amount of experts being thrown under the bus by Ministers and vice versa.  It's an awful tragedy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 06:50:01 PM
Yes sportacus
They seem to be distancing themselves now from some decisions made
Valance was saying it as if he wanted it done earlier
The professionals around the British government are starting to look pretty poor
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 06:54:42 PM
Quote from: lenny on May 05, 2020, 06:36:11 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:51:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 05, 2020, 04:37:44 PM
The Y2K bug?? What has it got to do with anything?

Do you just pick out words, or do you read threads?

I've been pointing out repeatedly that blind faith in science can impair judgement. HiMucker has decided I'm an oaf. I'm merely pointing out here that the Y2K bug cost billions, fixing a problem that did not exist, because of a blind faith in science.

Maybe the billions spent fixing the problem prevented it from existing. That's why faith in science is a good thing.

Maybe so. Maybe I am just one of those conspiracy theorist types.

Personally I like the balance in this paper which I saw a few years later. The author was widely outspoken against y2k panic in the run up to the millennium, but this is not an I Told You So piece. I was always taken by the last paragraph.

https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/1147/1/14.5_y2kpiece.pdf
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 05, 2020, 07:10:45 PM
Seems we (well our company) may be back at work in 2 weeks, once Boris comes out with his statement on Thursday. Be interesting to see the format to this and how it will work. Will it be based on watching the numbers to see if there will be an increase in new cases?

Sort of wary about going in, probably based on being off for so long and not fully sure/aware if the people who know (Karen from FB) how we contract it! that sounds silly but there are so many people getting it but have been self isolating and family can't work out how their loved ones got it!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 05, 2020, 07:14:54 PM
Anyone defending the science or those delivering it are part of the problem. They've got it wrong. They're making it up as they go along. They don't know what they're doing. The game is up. People see these frauds for what they are, bluffers and chancers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 05, 2020, 07:20:13 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 07:14:54 PM
Anyone defending the science or those delivering it are part of the problem. They've got it wrong. They're making it up as they go along. They don't know what they're doing. The game is up. People see these frauds for what they are, bluffers and chancers.

So who and what are you relying on trailer?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 05, 2020, 07:22:15 PM
If only they'd all consulted Trailer :'(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 05, 2020, 07:32:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 07:14:54 PM
Anyone defending the science or those delivering it are part of the problem. They've got it wrong. They're making it up as they go along. They don't know what they're doing. The game is up. People see these frauds for what they are, bluffers and chancers.

;D I see some irony in that post ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 05, 2020, 07:37:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 05, 2020, 07:20:13 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 07:14:54 PM
Anyone defending the science or those delivering it are part of the problem. They've got it wrong. They're making it up as they go along. They don't know what they're doing. The game is up. People see these frauds for what they are, bluffers and chancers.

So who and what are you relying on trailer?

Certainly not information from an amateur organisation that took China's word for it or indeed the U.K. governments who are in charge of the 2nd worst death toll in the world!
Time everyone woke up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:04:52 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 05, 2020, 07:38:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 07:37:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 05, 2020, 07:20:13 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 07:14:54 PM
Anyone defending the science or those delivering it are part of the problem. They've got it wrong. They're making it up as they go along. They don't know what they're doing. The game is up. People see these frauds for what they are, bluffers and chancers.

So who and what are you relying on trailer?

Certainly not information from an amateur organisation that took China's word for it or indeed the U.K. governments who are in charge of the 2nd worst death toll in the world!
Time everyone woke up.
He didn't ask what you're not relying on. It's best if you answered the question.

The science is extremely flawed. I trust none of it. The so called experts have been proven wrong. These are the facts and they're are undisputed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on May 05, 2020, 08:08:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:04:52 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 05, 2020, 07:38:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 07:37:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 05, 2020, 07:20:13 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 07:14:54 PM
Anyone defending the science or those delivering it are part of the problem. They've got it wrong. They're making it up as they go along. They don't know what they're doing. The game is up. People see these frauds for what they are, bluffers and chancers.

So who and what are you relying on trailer?

Certainly not information from an amateur organisation that took China's word for it or indeed the U.K. governments who are in charge of the 2nd worst death toll in the world!
Time everyone woke up.
He didn't ask what you're not relying on. It's best if you answered the question.

The science is extremely flawed. I trust none of it. The so called experts have been proven wrong. These are the facts and they're are undisputed.
Not facts at all. Can you explain how a lockdown to minimise the spread of the infection is scientifically wrong, or what you would suggest in its place?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 05, 2020, 08:12:10 PM
Are the Swiss still letting kids under 10 hug their grandparents?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:13:53 PM
You laugh at me because you see scientists and experts and you blindly follow. They know more than you. Deaths were unavoidable. This was out our control. But it's not. The deaths were and should've been avoided. The scientists got it wrong. The experts don't know. Remember the experts who predicted that there'd be a soft landing to housing bubble in 2007. The same banking experts. The smartest minds.
They don't know. They're making it up as they go along. I could study "the science" for 24 hours and I'd be better placed to make decisions on what to do rather than these clowns. They're overpaid failures. People who couldn't cut it in the real business world were failure is punished.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on May 05, 2020, 08:17:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:13:53 PM
You laugh at me because you see scientists and experts and you blindly follow. They know more than you. Deaths were unavoidable. This was out our control. But it's not. The deaths were and should've been avoided. The scientists got it wrong. The experts don't know. Remember the experts who predicted that there'd be a soft landing to housing bubble in 2007. The same banking experts. The smartest minds.
They don't know. They're making it up as they go along. I could study "the science" for 24 hours and I'd be better placed to make decisions on what to do rather than these clowns. They're overpaid failures. People who couldn't cut it in the real business world were failure is punished.
So the experts know more than us, but you know more than the experts after 24 hours of reading? Got it.  ;D
You'd know more about a big loaf.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:21:24 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 05, 2020, 08:17:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:13:53 PM
You laugh at me because you see scientists and experts and you blindly follow. They know more than you. Deaths were unavoidable. This was out our control. But it's not. The deaths were and should've been avoided. The scientists got it wrong. The experts don't know. Remember the experts who predicted that there'd be a soft landing to housing bubble in 2007. The same banking experts. The smartest minds.
They don't know. They're making it up as they go along. I could study "the science" for 24 hours and I'd be better placed to make decisions on what to do rather than these clowns. They're overpaid failures. People who couldn't cut it in the real business world were failure is punished.
So the experts know more than us, but you know more than the experts after 24 hours of reading? Got it.  ;D
You'd know more about a big loaf.

You think they know more.

Look follow them. Listen to them. Go for it. What've you got to lose except you're life. You think they're right. That they know what's going on. That they know what they're doing. That's fine.
But forgive me when I don't listen to them. That I think they've got it wrong. That I think they're a bunch of clowns who're making it up as they go along.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 05, 2020, 08:31:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:13:53 PM
You laugh at me because you see scientists and experts and you blindly follow. They know more than you. Deaths were unavoidable. This was out our control. But it's not. The deaths were and should've been avoided. The scientists got it wrong. The experts don't know. Remember the experts who predicted that there'd be a soft landing to housing bubble in 2007. The same banking experts. The smartest minds.
They don't know. They're making it up as they go along. I could study "the science" for 24 hours and I'd be better placed to make decisions on what to do rather than these clowns. They're overpaid failures. People who couldn't cut it in the real business world were failure is punished.

That is one of the most stunningly ignorant and idiotic comments I've ever read on this board.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on May 05, 2020, 08:32:12 PM
Ffs lads there's no point getting wound up over it, he's getting a kick out of people engaging with him
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 08:32:21 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 06:54:42 PM
Maybe so. Maybe I am just one of those conspiracy theorist types.

Personally I like the balance in this paper which I saw a few years later. The author was widely outspoken against y2k panic in the run up to the millennium, but this is not an I Told You So piece. I was always taken by the last paragraph.

https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/1147/1/14.5_y2kpiece.pdf

Written by a true academic.

He's obviously never been signatory on anything that might come back to land him in jail for professional negligence.

That attitude of his is closely related to the missteps of SAGE in this clusterfuck. A pack of academics which got tunnel vision on the back of their theoretical models and were not pragmatic enough when the inputs & assumptions were very much without foundation.

Its OK saying "ah, sure it'll be grand next time" when your in a university office. Not so much if your responsible for the life savings of millions - or if you have 300 people airborne relying on engines to keep turning. Verifying & Validating software usually takes much more time than writing said code.


I'll admit Y2K was over-egged, but it was over-egged to take advantage of the ignorance of corporate executives to get badly needed capital expenditure done. That does not mean the problem didn't exist. It did. The measures taken eradicated the vulnerabilities before they became problems... and the IT infrastructure of many companies were brought into the 21st century off the back of it.


edit: 'cos I can't type
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on May 05, 2020, 08:34:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:21:24 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 05, 2020, 08:17:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:13:53 PM
You laugh at me because you see scientists and experts and you blindly follow. They know more than you. Deaths were unavoidable. This was out our control. But it's not. The deaths were and should've been avoided. The scientists got it wrong. The experts don't know. Remember the experts who predicted that there'd be a soft landing to housing bubble in 2007. The same banking experts. The smartest minds.
They don't know. They're making it up as they go along. I could study "the science" for 24 hours and I'd be better placed to make decisions on what to do rather than these clowns. They're overpaid failures. People who couldn't cut it in the real business world were failure is punished.
So the experts know more than us, but you know more than the experts after 24 hours of reading? Got it.  ;D
You'd know more about a big loaf.

You think they know more.

Look follow them. Listen to them. Go for it. What've you got to lose except you're life. You think they're right. That they know what's going on. That they know what they're doing. That's fine.
But forgive me when I don't listen to them. That I think they've got it wrong. That I think they're a bunch of clowns who're making it up as they go along.
So by adhering to the lockdown restrictions and social distancing measures which massively reduces exposure to the virus, i am therefore putting my life at risk, but you who doesn't or refuses to adhere to this are actually going to be safer off? 
By not leaving the house, i am more at risk? Right got it.  ;D
You tear away. Go you visit your elderly relatives, go back to work and meet up with others and all the rest etc etc. Don't come crying when you're breathing through a machine because the science is wrong  ;D Clampit
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:45:08 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 05, 2020, 08:34:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:21:24 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 05, 2020, 08:17:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:13:53 PM
You laugh at me because you see scientists and experts and you blindly follow. They know more than you. Deaths were unavoidable. This was out our control. But it's not. The deaths were and should've been avoided. The scientists got it wrong. The experts don't know. Remember the experts who predicted that there'd be a soft landing to housing bubble in 2007. The same banking experts. The smartest minds.
They don't know. They're making it up as they go along. I could study "the science" for 24 hours and I'd be better placed to make decisions on what to do rather than these clowns. They're overpaid failures. People who couldn't cut it in the real business world were failure is punished.
So the experts know more than us, but you know more than the experts after 24 hours of reading? Got it.  ;D
You'd know more about a big loaf.

You think they know more.

Look follow them. Listen to them. Go for it. What've you got to lose except you're life. You think they're right. That they know what's going on. That they know what they're doing. That's fine.
But forgive me when I don't listen to them. That I think they've got it wrong. That I think they're a bunch of clowns who're making it up as they go along.
So by adhering to the lockdown restrictions and social distancing measures which massively reduces exposure to the virus, i am therefore putting my life at risk, but you who doesn't or refuses to adhere to this are actually going to be safer off? 
By not leaving the house, i am more at risk? Right got it.  ;D
You tear away. Go you visit your elderly relatives, go back to work and meet up with others and all the rest etc etc. Don't come crying when you're breathing through a machine because the science is wrong  ;D Clampit

That's not what I'm saying. I've been clear and cannot be clearer.

WHO - Got it wrong
UK Government advisors have got it wrong.

FFS why are people defending them? Even the loyal Tory press are calling them out.
The science got it wrong hence this draconian lockdown. If they'd took the right steps initially lives would have been saved. But no you think these frauds are right. They know what they're doing. I hope you're right.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:49:37 PM
f**k me it's just come out one of the gov scientists broke lockdown rules to meet his married lover! Like f**k me could it be any clearer that these arseholes are frauds? The Scottish CMO also broke lockdown. Like does it apply or not? Jesus Christ!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 05, 2020, 08:51:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:49:37 PM
f**k me it's just come out one of the gov scientists broke lockdown rules to meet his married lover! Like f**k me could it be any clearer that these arseholes are frauds? The Scottish CMO also broke lockdown. Like does it apply or not? Jesus Christ!

Did Nesbitt not do that also? I'd say it's happening up and down (no pun intended) the country
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:52:24 PM
I cannot understand how anyone can defend these frauds with any credibility.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on May 05, 2020, 08:59:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:45:08 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 05, 2020, 08:34:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:21:24 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 05, 2020, 08:17:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:13:53 PM
You laugh at me because you see scientists and experts and you blindly follow. They know more than you. Deaths were unavoidable. This was out our control. But it's not. The deaths were and should've been avoided. The scientists got it wrong. The experts don't know. Remember the experts who predicted that there'd be a soft landing to housing bubble in 2007. The same banking experts. The smartest minds.
They don't know. They're making it up as they go along. I could study "the science" for 24 hours and I'd be better placed to make decisions on what to do rather than these clowns. They're overpaid failures. People who couldn't cut it in the real business world were failure is punished.
So the experts know more than us, but you know more than the experts after 24 hours of reading? Got it.  ;D
You'd know more about a big loaf.

You think they know more.

Look follow them. Listen to them. Go for it. What've you got to lose except you're life. You think they're right. That they know what's going on. That they know what they're doing. That's fine.
But forgive me when I don't listen to them. That I think they've got it wrong. That I think they're a bunch of clowns who're making it up as they go along.
So by adhering to the lockdown restrictions and social distancing measures which massively reduces exposure to the virus, i am therefore putting my life at risk, but you who doesn't or refuses to adhere to this are actually going to be safer off? 
By not leaving the house, i am more at risk? Right got it.  ;D
You tear away. Go you visit your elderly relatives, go back to work and meet up with others and all the rest etc etc. Don't come crying when you're breathing through a machine because the science is wrong  ;D Clampit

That's not what I'm saying. I've been clear and cannot be clearer.

WHO - Got it wrong
UK Government advisors have got it wrong.

FFS why are people defending them? Even the loyal Tory press are calling them out.
The science got it wrong hence this draconian lockdown. If they'd took the right steps initially lives would have been saved. But no you think these frauds are right. They know what they're doing. I hope you're right.
You haven't been clear.
You have yet to explain why you think they have got it wrong, or given your opinion as to what you think should have happened instead.
All you have contributed are aimless whines and bs soundbites like "the game is up" or "the experts are wrong" with no logic behind them.
The brits have shown their incompetence with the likes of testing and shortage of PPE, just compare them with Germany.
However, "the science" that you yap on about, which is to reduce everyone's exposure to the virus is necessary and obvious, you don't have to be a scientist to know that it's the right thing to do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 09:05:49 PM
Sage Government Journalist All useless in this
Sage Bad advice
Government clueless
Journalist ask the same questions at briefings

Now I could see feel for this if we were caught unawares
But Christ of god everyone could see what was coming over the 
Italy was giving us a 3/4 week time to get things right

When Italy were getting the deaths everyone was saying close the place down now and save life's
But no th British government held on and held on
They should have had lockdown 3 weeks earlier and we would be coming out of it now with 10000 less deaths
But no sure go ahead and dig the heals in
In those 3 weeks when things should have been shut
Cheltenham 230000
Liverpool Madrid 60000
All soccer matches throughout England for 2 weeks Millions
Johnstone
Raab
Cummins
Hancock
All have a lot to answer for when this is over
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on May 05, 2020, 09:12:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:21:24 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 05, 2020, 08:17:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:13:53 PM
You laugh at me because you see scientists and experts and you blindly follow. They know more than you. Deaths were unavoidable. This was out our control. But it's not. The deaths were and should've been avoided. The scientists got it wrong. The experts don't know. Remember the experts who predicted that there'd be a soft landing to housing bubble in 2007. The same banking experts. The smartest minds.
They don't know. They're making it up as they go along. I could study "the science" for 24 hours and I'd be better placed to make decisions on what to do rather than these clowns. They're overpaid failures. People who couldn't cut it in the real business world were failure is punished.
So the experts know more than us, but you know more than the experts after 24 hours of reading? Got it.  ;D
You'd know more about a big loaf.

You think they know more.

Look follow them. Listen to them. Go for it. What've you got to lose except you're life. You think they're right. That they know what's going on. That they know what they're doing. That's fine.
But forgive me when I don't listen to them. That I think they've got it wrong. That I think they're a bunch of clowns who're making it up as they go along.
Right you tell us what the f**k we should do then? You've been asked this a few times now and can't answer! The games up, your a fraud a bluffer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 05, 2020, 09:27:23 PM
The UK with the most coronavirus deaths in Europe now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on May 05, 2020, 09:30:06 PM
Yeah it wasnt any old govt scientist that broke the lockdown rules it was only bladdy the Neil Ferguson boyo!

Yer man that had 500k dead or something
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 10:07:23 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:45:08 PM
That's not what I'm saying. I've been clear and cannot be clearer.

UK Government advisors have got it wrong.

FFS why are people defending them? Even the loyal Tory press are calling them out.

Who is defending the UK govt advisors in this thread?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on May 05, 2020, 10:20:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:13:53 PM
You laugh at me because you see scientists and experts and you blindly follow. They know more than you. Deaths were unavoidable. This was out our control. But it's not. The deaths were and should've been avoided. The scientists got it wrong. The experts don't know. Remember the experts who predicted that there'd be a soft landing to housing bubble in 2007. The same banking experts. The smartest minds.
They don't know. They're making it up as they go along. I could study "the science" for 24 hours and I'd be better placed to make decisions on what to do rather than these clowns. They're overpaid failures. People who couldn't cut it in the real business world were failure is punished.
Can you come back to me in 24 hours and tell me how all the deaths could have been avoided?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 10:35:45 PM
Thousands of deaths could and should have been avoided
Earlier lockdown on the elderly
Testing earlier
Carehomes should have been attended to first
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on May 05, 2020, 10:45:01 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 10:35:45 PM
Thousands of deaths could and should have been avoided
Earlier lockdown on the elderly
Testing earlier
Carehomes should have been attended to first

In fairness, nobody mentioned Care aHomes at the start, nobody.

Hindsight is wonderful.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 11:00:55 PM
Nobody mentioned carehomes at the start?
Are you having a laugh?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on May 05, 2020, 11:57:14 PM
How do people see this panning out in the long term , say twelve months from now , will there still be a "new normal " ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on May 05, 2020, 11:59:35 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:04:00 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:45:29 PMI would also expect the governments now regret closing schools.

Absolutely not.

1 family contracts virus.

Their kid goes into school.

30 kids contract virus.

30 families contract virus.

The siblings of those 30 families go into school.

30^x kids contract virus

30^x families contract virus

Health service overwhelmed.
What particular research is all that based upon?
The only legitimate research I have come across maintains that transmission of corona virus  in primary schools/pre schools  to be very low or absent.
And in two countries South Korea and Iceland, which kept pre-school and primary schools open in this time of covid-19, nothing has happened to deviate from that research opinion. And this is in two countries which have test, trace and quarantine down to an art form. If something happened, it would have been discovered.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 06, 2020, 07:46:10 AM
Quote from: Main Street on May 05, 2020, 11:59:35 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:04:00 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:45:29 PMI would also expect the governments now regret closing schools.

Absolutely not.

1 family contracts virus.

Their kid goes into school.

30 kids contract virus.

30 families contract virus.

The siblings of those 30 families go into school.

30^x kids contract virus

30^x families contract virus

Health service overwhelmed.
What particular research is all that based upon?
The only legitimate research I have come across maintains that transmission of corona virus  in primary schools/pre schools  to be very low or absent.
And in two countries South Korea and Iceland, which kept pre-school and primary schools open in this time of covid-19, nothing has happened to deviate from that research opinion. And this is in two countries which have test, trace and quarantine down to an art form. If something happened, it would have been discovered.

Iceland stayed open - SK closed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 06, 2020, 08:01:55 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:59:52 PM
Quote from: ONeill on May 05, 2020, 05:50:15 PM
It's mind numbing. The press have all day to think of a question. It's usually.... give us a date for something in the future. Or... From the public... When can I hug my grandson?

Q: "Leaving aside timelines, what are the steps that are needed to get things back on their feet?"

Q:"Why are your testing targets only half that of Germany?"

Q:"Why are medics continuing to have to buy their own PPE? How come they can obtain it in their limited spare time outside of work whereas you with your legions of civil servants cannot?"

Q:"What PPE providers are you in contact with? Here are additional providers that have contacted me saying they cannot get through to your civil servants. I will be talking to them tomorrow to verify they have been contacted by your minions, if they haven't expect I will expect a full explanation of why not."


Its long past time the press started getting a little hostile, grew a set of balls and challenged their lies.

Talking to a few people who work in the "front line" one of the biggest scandals to them is dyson making the extra ventilators. The reckoning is that the ones that work are about as advanced as ventilators from the 70s. Dyson were given this contract having never made ventilators before from what I can tell.  Questions need to be asked on this front too. Highly suspicious.

The Tory newspapers are not calling out the tories as they should be. It's not just about mistakes - it's the lies, the cronyism and the complicit media in the whole thing. The uk is an absolute shambles and is fundamentally broken.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 06, 2020, 08:04:59 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:07:04 PM
Quote from: five points on May 05, 2020, 05:05:53 PM
All the evidence from the outset though was that the virus doesn't affect children. It's since been shown that they don't even carry it.

WTF.

They do get it, they do carry it. Kids have died from it.

A higher proportion of them will have mild symptoms compared to adults, but that does not stop them carrying and spreading it.

The Swiss medical authorities disagree.
The science is all over the place on this. https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-swiss-children-under-10-allowed-to-hug-grandparents-as-they-do-not-transmit-covid-19-11980568
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 09:17:53 AM
Radio whilst you hand some very valid points throwing out that school children pass on the virus I'd just wrong. This has not been scientifically proven. Many say kids do pass it on many say they don't.
Try and deal in facts and not with you want to believe
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 06, 2020, 09:25:10 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 09:17:53 AM
Radio whilst you hand some very valid points throwing out that school children pass on the virus I'd just wrong. This has not been scientifically proven. Many say kids do pass it on many say they don't.
Try and deal in facts and not with you want to believe

Have children died of the virus? And would you risk your own child to being exposed to it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 06, 2020, 09:29:15 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 05, 2020, 09:12:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:21:24 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 05, 2020, 08:17:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:13:53 PM
You laugh at me because you see scientists and experts and you blindly follow. They know more than you. Deaths were unavoidable. This was out our control. But it's not. The deaths were and should've been avoided. The scientists got it wrong. The experts don't know. Remember the experts who predicted that there'd be a soft landing to housing bubble in 2007. The same banking experts. The smartest minds.
They don't know. They're making it up as they go along. I could study "the science" for 24 hours and I'd be better placed to make decisions on what to do rather than these clowns. They're overpaid failures. People who couldn't cut it in the real business world were failure is punished.
So the experts know more than us, but you know more than the experts after 24 hours of reading? Got it.  ;D
You'd know more about a big loaf.

You think they know more.

Look follow them. Listen to them. Go for it. What've you got to lose except you're life. You think they're right. That they know what's going on. That they know what they're doing. That's fine.
But forgive me when I don't listen to them. That I think they've got it wrong. That I think they're a bunch of clowns who're making it up as they go along.
Right you tell us what the f**k we should do then? You've been asked this a few times now and can't answer! The games up, your a fraud a bluffer.

It's quite simple.

Ignore everything you here from the WHO apart from there's a new virus, but as the UK or USA you'd know that because your intelligence service would tell you.
Ignore China when they say it contained and that there's no human to human transmission. Again your intelligence service would tell you this anyway.
Stop all travel from China or passengers that originate from China.
Quarantine all travellers into the country for 14 days.
TEST AND THEN CONTACT TRACE! OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN until the Virus is isolated.

What has happened is we're past the point of no return. Overpaid asshole scientists full of their own self importance felt they knew better. Felt they could trust a rogue nation. And now look. We're in this wanky, draconian, half arsed lockdown that most people are now ignoring anyway. The economy is flying towards the bin and more people will die from suicide, depression, malnutrition,  and other curable medical ailments because the health service has been stood down.

South Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong all took this approach. UK and other countries who thought they knew better or at least "followed the science" and look were that's got them.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 09:44:28 AM
Trailer is right 100% correct in all he says
I have 3 children and I would 100% be happy with them going back to school in the morning yes I would.
Have children died from Covid and Covid alone show me
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 06, 2020, 09:52:33 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 09:44:28 AM
Trailer is right 100% correct in all he says
I have 3 children and I would 100% be happy with them going back to school in the morning yes I would.
Have children died from Covid and Covid alone show me

I'm asking you, have children died of Covid?
And you've answered the other question, that you as parents are willing to expose your kids to Covid, I never mentioned school, you've changed the answer btw
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 06, 2020, 09:53:58 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:04:52 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 05, 2020, 07:38:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 07:37:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 05, 2020, 07:20:13 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 07:14:54 PM
Anyone defending the science or those delivering it are part of the problem. They've got it wrong. They're making it up as they go along. They don't know what they're doing. The game is up. People see these frauds for what they are, bluffers and chancers.

So who and what are you relying on trailer?

Certainly not information from an amateur organisation that took China's word for it or indeed the U.K. governments who are in charge of the 2nd worst death toll in the world!
Time everyone woke up.
He didn't ask what you're not relying on. It's best if you answered the question.

The science is extremely flawed. I trust none of it. The so called experts have been proven wrong. These are the facts and they're are undisputed.

SAGE have very much got it's faults and the biggest one as we'll find out in the coming months is that it gave scientific cover to an inept government ill prepared and ambivalent it seems for what was coming down the tracks.

We're getting snippets as to why the lockdown wasn't called earlier and that seems to have been driven by economists trying to keep the economy intact for as long as possible. (See Boris's speech to business' in Greenwich in February and very much in step with his take it on the chin mantra)
When the shit started hitting the fan they released they didn't have enough test capacity as the Koreans and Germans had and decided to focus on hospital admissions and left the Care sector to the wolves (Whitty is alluding to this already) on the 12th of March.

IMO they (the Government) looked at what was happening in Italy with ICU's full of OAP's for weeks on end and driving up the death rates and made a conscious decision to keep those in Care homes there as much as possible "so that the NHS wouldn't be overrun".

I really do think they're such heartless bástards.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 09:55:42 AM
Quote from: five points on May 06, 2020, 08:04:59 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:07:04 PM
Quote from: five points on May 05, 2020, 05:05:53 PM
All the evidence from the outset though was that the virus doesn't affect children. It's since been shown that they don't even carry it.

WTF.

They do get it, they do carry it. Kids have died from it.

A higher proportion of them will have mild symptoms compared to adults, but that does not stop them carrying and spreading it.

The Swiss medical authorities disagree.
The science is all over the place on this. https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-swiss-children-under-10-allowed-to-hug-grandparents-as-they-do-not-transmit-covid-19-11980568

https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/31/coronavirus-doctors-devastated-as-covid-19-claims-life-of-12-year-old-girl-in-belgium

That is pretty definitive.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 06, 2020, 10:01:45 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 09:55:42 AM
Quote from: five points on May 06, 2020, 08:04:59 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:07:04 PM
Quote from: five points on May 05, 2020, 05:05:53 PM
All the evidence from the outset though was that the virus doesn't affect children. It's since been shown that they don't even carry it.

WTF.

They do get it, they do carry it. Kids have died from it.

A higher proportion of them will have mild symptoms compared to adults, but that does not stop them carrying and spreading it.

The Swiss medical authorities disagree.
The science is all over the place on this. https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-swiss-children-under-10-allowed-to-hug-grandparents-as-they-do-not-transmit-covid-19-11980568

https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/31/coronavirus-doctors-devastated-as-covid-19-claims-life-of-12-year-old-girl-in-belgium

That is pretty definitive.

Its one child dying too many in the UK but statistically its clearly not affecting the youth, that's anything but definitive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 10:03:12 AM
Believe all you read.
Let's deal with real facts
Real facts are Witty and co let the elderly in carehomes die
They seen what was happening in Italy sweet Christ
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 06, 2020, 10:03:35 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 06, 2020, 10:01:45 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 09:55:42 AM
Quote from: five points on May 06, 2020, 08:04:59 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:07:04 PM
Quote from: five points on May 05, 2020, 05:05:53 PM
All the evidence from the outset though was that the virus doesn't affect children. It's since been shown that they don't even carry it.

WTF.

They do get it, they do carry it. Kids have died from it.

A higher proportion of them will have mild symptoms compared to adults, but that does not stop them carrying and spreading it.

The Swiss medical authorities disagree.
The science is all over the place on this. https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-swiss-children-under-10-allowed-to-hug-grandparents-as-they-do-not-transmit-covid-19-11980568

https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/31/coronavirus-doctors-devastated-as-covid-19-claims-life-of-12-year-old-girl-in-belgium

That is pretty definitive.

Its one child dying too many in the UK but statistically its clearly not affecting the youth, that's anything but definitive.

So can a child get it? And if she can get it can she pass it on to, let's say, a teacher? Who'll pass it on and so on?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 06, 2020, 10:04:45 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 06, 2020, 09:53:58 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:04:52 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 05, 2020, 07:38:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 07:37:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 05, 2020, 07:20:13 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 07:14:54 PM
Anyone defending the science or those delivering it are part of the problem. They've got it wrong. They're making it up as they go along. They don't know what they're doing. The game is up. People see these frauds for what they are, bluffers and chancers.

So who and what are you relying on trailer?

Certainly not information from an amateur organisation that took China's word for it or indeed the U.K. governments who are in charge of the 2nd worst death toll in the world!
Time everyone woke up.
He didn't ask what you're not relying on. It's best if you answered the question.

The science is extremely flawed. I trust none of it. The so called experts have been proven wrong. These are the facts and they're are undisputed.

SAGE have very much got it's faults and the biggest one as we'll find out in the coming months is that it gave scientific cover to an inept government ill prepared and ambivalent it seems for what was coming down the tracks.

We're getting snippets as to why the lockdown wasn't called earlier and that seems to have been driven by economists trying to keep the economy intact for as long as possible. (See Boris's speech to business' in Greenwich in February and very much in step with his take it on the chin mantra)
When the shit started hitting the fan they released they didn't have enough test capacity as the Koreans and Germans had and decided to focus on hospital admissions and left the Care sector to the wolves (Whitty is alluding to this already) on the 12th of March.

IMO they (the Government) looked at what was happening in Italy with ICU's full of OAP's for weeks on end and driving up the death rates and made a conscious decision to keep those in Care homes there as much as possible "so that the NHS wouldn't be overrun".

I really do think they're such heartless bástards.

I fully agree on this. They don't give a crap about peoples lives. The most of this shambles and the damage was driven by the economy and government not scientists and now they are trying to save some face.

Sure they won't be able to contact trace properly because they are producing an app and a load of people won't use it because they don't trust them. Why do people not trust them? They don't trust them because they gave the contract to their mates again.

The dyson thing summed it up. Save lives and quick or give a quick buck to your mates. What do you choose? Your mates.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 10:18:12 AM
Quote from: Main Street on May 05, 2020, 11:59:35 PM
What particular research is all that based upon?
The only legitimate research I have come across maintains that transmission of corona virus  in primary schools/pre schools  to be very low or absent.
And in two countries South Korea and Iceland, which kept pre-school and primary schools open in this time of covid-19, nothing has happened to deviate from that research opinion. And this is in two countries which have test, trace and quarantine down to an art form. If something happened, it would have been discovered.

Its a pragmatic call based on schools being a transmission centre for other viruses passing through the population.

Yes, there are some studies indicating that it has little effect on death rates, but even those note it can have a substantial effect on ICU admissions:

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/mrc-gida/2020-03-16-COVID19-Report-9.pdf

page 9 - "PC" column.

Note also the pertinent assumptions in the model:

QuotePC
Closure of schools and universities
Closure of all schools, 25% of universities remain open.
Household contact rates for student families increase by 50% during closure.
Contacts in the community increase by 25% during closure.

Any model is only as good as its assumptions - are contacts in the community up 25%?

Really, ICL should have presented sensitivities to their assumptions. Not great quality work.


There are studies on SARS that indicate they may only have a small effect.

But - I'd want to be very sure of that before reopening. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. For instance, you have this:

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/6/20-0239_article

QuoteWe found a sharply increasing proportion of infected children (from 2% before January 24 to 13% for January 25–February 5; p<0.001), implying that increased exposure for children and intrafamily transmission might contribute substantially to the epidemic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 06, 2020, 10:18:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 06, 2020, 10:03:35 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 06, 2020, 10:01:45 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 09:55:42 AM
Quote from: five points on May 06, 2020, 08:04:59 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:07:04 PM
Quote from: five points on May 05, 2020, 05:05:53 PM
All the evidence from the outset though was that the virus doesn't affect children. It's since been shown that they don't even carry it.

WTF.

They do get it, they do carry it. Kids have died from it.

A higher proportion of them will have mild symptoms compared to adults, but that does not stop them carrying and spreading it.

The Swiss medical authorities disagree.
The science is all over the place on this. https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-swiss-children-under-10-allowed-to-hug-grandparents-as-they-do-not-transmit-covid-19-11980568

https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/31/coronavirus-doctors-devastated-as-covid-19-claims-life-of-12-year-old-girl-in-belgium

That is pretty definitive.

Its one child dying too many in the UK but statistically its clearly not affecting the youth, that's anything but definitive.

So can a child get it? And if she can get it can she pass it on to, let's say, a teacher? Who'll pass it on and so on?

Its a tricky given there's a clear lack of evidence/research when it comes to kids. Plenty of schools are open in Manchester, I know a few weeks ago that 9 children were turning up daily to School where my kids go and the teachers were doing a rota to look after them. Each teacher has to do one day, those teachers at risk are allowed to stay away. Only a couple of the teachers have stayed away, I know one who's husband had a heart condition. A mate who's just separated from his wife is back living with his parents who are both 70+ but he's still going in. Another School where a mate teaches is very different though, nearly 75% of the staff are avoiding coming in with the majority of those taking advantage of the situation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 10:18:56 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 06, 2020, 08:01:55 AM
Talking to a few people who work in the "front line" one of the biggest scandals to them is dyson making the extra ventilators. The reckoning is that the ones that work are about as advanced as ventilators from the 70s. Dyson were given this contract having never made ventilators before from what I can tell.  Questions need to be asked on this front too. Highly suspicious.

You mean the Brexit supporting Dyson?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 06, 2020, 10:19:52 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 10:18:56 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 06, 2020, 08:01:55 AM
Talking to a few people who work in the "front line" one of the biggest scandals to them is dyson making the extra ventilators. The reckoning is that the ones that work are about as advanced as ventilators from the 70s. Dyson were given this contract having never made ventilators before from what I can tell.  Questions need to be asked on this front too. Highly suspicious.

You mean the Brexit supporting Dyson?

That would be the one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 06, 2020, 10:22:15 AM
@ProfKarolSikora

Offers some good insight on twitter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 10:23:38 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 06, 2020, 10:01:45 AM
Its one child dying too many in the UK but statistically its clearly not affecting the youth, that's anything but definitive.

No - that was a rebuttal to the assertion:

QuoteAll the evidence from the outset though was that the virus doesn't affect children. It's since been shown that they don't even carry it.

IMO pretty clear evidence that the above is wrong.


Now, if you want to get into proportion of cases presenting to hospital or submitted to ICUs that are children, different story - but different story with 2 factors; (i)children have a much more active immune system than adults and (ii)mild or even no symptoms does not stop them passing it on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 10:30:29 AM
I don't believe kids spread it. Everyone had different opinions on this matter
But you stating it does is just wrong
Deal in facts not paper talk
Why were airports on this island not locked down?
The governments have made a complete balls of this from start to finish.
And I keep referring back to everybody seen what was happening 3 weeks before it happened as we all seen Italy
Another thing that the uk government seem to be getting away with is why are they waiting until Sunday 9th of May to release our next phase of lockdown? That's 6 weeks and 6 days and we are officially only to be lockdown for 6 weeks. Lockdown ended on Monday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 10:42:43 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 10:30:29 AM
I don't believe kids spread it. Everyone had different opinions on this matter
But you stating it does is just wrong

Prove that.

Produce some peer reviewed papers that state unequivocally that kids do not spread it.

Just to start off, here are two that say (i)kids can get it and spread it and (ii)the effect of school closures:

https://zoonosen.charite.de/fileadmin/user_upload/microsites/m_cc05/virologie-ccm/dateien_upload/Weitere_Dateien/analysis-of-SARS-CoV-2-viral-load-by-patient-age.pdf

QuoteData on viral load, as estimated by real-time RT-PCR threshold cycle values from 3,712 COVID-19 patients were analysed to examine the relationship between patient age and SARS-CoV-2 viral load.
Analysis of variance of viral loads in patients of different age categories found no significant difference between any pair of age categories including children.
In particular, these data indicate that viral loads in the very young do not differ significantly from those of adults.
Based on these results, we have to caution against an unlimited re-opening of schools and kindergartens in the present situation. Children may be as infectious as adults.


https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/05/04/science.abb8001
QuoteWe find that children 0-14 years are less susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 infection than adults 15-64 years of age (odds ratio 0.34, 95%CI 0.24-0.49), while in contrast, individuals over 65 years are more susceptible to infection (odds ratio 1.47, 95%CI: 1.12-1.92). Based on these data, we build a transmission model to study the impact of social distancing and school closure on transmission. We find that social distancing alone, as implemented in China during the outbreak, is sufficient to control COVID-19. While proactive school closures cannot interrupt transmission on their own, they can reduce peak incidence by 40-60% and delay the epidemic.


I eagerly await your response and anticipate it is based on more than your opinion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on May 06, 2020, 10:43:51 AM
When you folk say kids is that 0-18 years ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 06, 2020, 10:44:05 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 06, 2020, 10:19:52 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 10:18:56 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 06, 2020, 08:01:55 AM
Talking to a few people who work in the "front line" one of the biggest scandals to them is dyson making the extra ventilators. The reckoning is that the ones that work are about as advanced as ventilators from the 70s. Dyson were given this contract having never made ventilators before from what I can tell.  Questions need to be asked on this front too. Highly suspicious.

You mean the Brexit supporting Dyson?

That would be the one.

That was fúcking nuts what they did there with Dyson, JCB, McClaren and the likes and had all the hallmarks of people not having the first clue about medical electronics and the rigorous standards that this kit is designed, built and tested to. It takes years to get new designs approved.

I've worked in that industry for a while on drip pumps for Abbot in Sligo, oncology devices for Philips Medical Systems and GE Medical systems in Milwaukee and absolutely nothing is left to chance.

That bullshit was never going to work but puff out the chest of the British bulldog spirit. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 06, 2020, 10:56:34 AM
Yeah but there's hardly an eyelid batted about it. Now while the thing hasn't been as bad as it could have been people a) could have died because of that and b) could yet die if things get worse.

They don't give a shite.The media do not hold them to account either. Give your mates jobs sure and it'll be grand.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 06, 2020, 11:06:07 AM
I think Piers Morgan has been pretty brutal with them to be honest
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 06, 2020, 11:34:15 AM
I'm fine with my kids going back to school but if they do they'll have to continue keeping their distance from their grandparents which is going to be very difficult once winter arrives.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 06, 2020, 11:45:30 AM
In reality if manufacturing and other industries are starting back then we needs schools and creches to look after these kids otherwise we're leaving them with Grandparents which is not ideal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on May 06, 2020, 12:02:16 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 10:30:29 AM
I don't believe kids spread it. Everyone had different opinions on this matter
But you stating it does is just wrong
Deal in facts not paper talk
Why were airports on this island not locked down?
The governments have made a complete balls of this from start to finish.
And I keep referring back to everybody seen what was happening 3 weeks before it happened as we all seen Italy
Another thing that the uk government seem to be getting away with is why are they waiting until Sunday 9th of May to release our next phase of lockdown? That's 6 weeks and 6 days and we are officially only to be lockdown for 6 weeks. Lockdown ended on Monday.

This year's bank holiday is on the 8th May due to VE day so they most likely chose the 9th May due to this, so as not to have the potential for mass gatherings on the bank holiday? Not that it matters as most people are now ignoring lockdown anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 06, 2020, 12:08:37 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 06, 2020, 11:45:30 AM
In reality if manufacturing and other industries are starting back then we needs schools and creches to look after these kids otherwise we're leaving them with Grandparents which is not ideal.

But sure if kids don't get it then why not leave them with grandparents?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 01:01:02 PM
The nightingale hospital in Belfast to be closed down
60% of deaths this last week in the uk are now in care homes
Scotland deaths today in care homes are more than the general public for the first time
The Government really and truly have messed up big time
First move should have been get the elderly and care homes sorted
They were to busy building 5 nightingale hospitals
They panicked when they seen all the stuff coming out of Italy
But remember Italy didn't see this coming we did
Boris Johnstone now admits he regrets leaving the care homes behind
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 06, 2020, 01:06:25 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 01:01:02 PM
The nightingale hospital in Belfast to be closed down
60% of deaths this last week in the uk are now in care homes
Scotland deaths today in care homes are more than the general public for the first time
The Government really and truly have messed up big time
First move should have been get the elderly and care homes sorted
They were to busy building 5 nightingale hospitals
They panicked when they seen all the stuff coming out of Italy
But remember Italy didn't see this coming we did
Boris Johnstone now admits he regrets leaving the care homes behind

So if we had have carried on with kids at school, over 70's isolate and looked after the care-homes we'd have been fine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 06, 2020, 01:31:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 06, 2020, 01:06:25 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 01:01:02 PM
The nightingale hospital in Belfast to be closed down
60% of deaths this last week in the uk are now in care homes
Scotland deaths today in care homes are more than the general public for the first time
The Government really and truly have messed up big time
First move should have been get the elderly and care homes sorted
They were to busy building 5 nightingale hospitals
They panicked when they seen all the stuff coming out of Italy
But remember Italy didn't see this coming we did
Boris Johnstone now admits he regrets leaving the care homes behind

So if we had have carried on with kids at school, over 70's isolate and looked after the care-homes we'd have been fine?

Without seeing all the stats on the deaths its difficult to calculate but with what the little I do know I suspect we'd have far less deaths if all of the above had happened.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 06, 2020, 01:35:57 PM
Hindsight is a great yoke.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 01:39:17 PM
No we wouldn't have been fine but we would have saved thousands of life's
Hindsight? Did you not see what was happening in Italy? We were basically given a 3 week window
From the very start the word was it will ravage the elderly and people with underlying health issues.
That was everywhere you looked on tv
Hindsight doesn't work for this one I'm afraid as everyone knew what was coming over the hill
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 06, 2020, 01:47:15 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 01:39:17 PM
No we wouldn't have been fine but we would have saved thousands of life's
Hindsight? Did you not see what was happening in Italy? We were basically given a 3 week window
From the very start the word was it will ravage the elderly and people with underlying health issues.
That was everywhere you looked on tv
Hindsight doesn't work for this one I'm afraid as everyone knew what was coming over the hill

No one on this site hasn't disagreed that the government and the government scientists fucked up. You keep harping on about that and everyone is in agreement! So no more on that please.

The question is how do YOU see this pan out now? How do we go back to normal again?

You said kids don't get the virus
If they don't get it they can't pass it on

Can you give me proof of this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 06, 2020, 01:52:20 PM
Come on Professor Smurf, step up to the plate and give us mere mortals the benefit of  your expertise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 06, 2020, 01:58:53 PM
Keir Starmer has just destroyed Boris in the Commons.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 02:01:22 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 01:39:17 PM
No we wouldn't have been fine but we would have saved thousands of life's
Hindsight? Did you not see what was happening in Italy? We were basically given a 3 week window
From the very start the word was it will ravage the elderly and people with underlying health issues.
That was everywhere you looked on tv
Hindsight doesn't work for this one I'm afraid as everyone knew what was coming over the hill

Any sign of the proof that kids don't get it or spread it smurfy?

Or are you now admitting they can do both?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on May 06, 2020, 03:59:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 02:01:22 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 01:39:17 PM
No we wouldn't have been fine but we would have saved thousands of life's
Hindsight? Did you not see what was happening in Italy? We were basically given a 3 week window
From the very start the word was it will ravage the elderly and people with underlying health issues.
That was everywhere you looked on tv
Hindsight doesn't work for this one I'm afraid as everyone knew what was coming over the hill

Any sign of the proof that kids don't get it or spread it smurfy?

Or are you now admitting they can do both?

What are kids  0-18 years ?

1300 odd deaths in 26 ,  around 1100 had underlying health condition .  Houlahan said it yesterday obviously with exact numbers .

How many deaths in them 1300 were even under 40 years old ? Pretty sure I heard a figure last week when death toll was around 1000 that it was a total of 14 people under the age of 40 .

Every life matters no matter what but these stats we are hearing from all over all indicates that nursing homes should of been priority. Over 700 of death toll were in nursing homes .

We need to see more statistics, for example how many hospital admissions are healthy and lets say under 55 ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 06, 2020, 04:04:50 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on May 06, 2020, 03:59:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 02:01:22 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 01:39:17 PM
No we wouldn't have been fine but we would have saved thousands of life's
Hindsight? Did you not see what was happening in Italy? We were basically given a 3 week window
From the very start the word was it will ravage the elderly and people with underlying health issues.
That was everywhere you looked on tv
Hindsight doesn't work for this one I'm afraid as everyone knew what was coming over the hill

Any sign of the proof that kids don't get it or spread it smurfy?

Or are you now admitting they can do both?

What are kids  0-18 years ?

1300 odd deaths in 26 ,  around 1100 had underlying health condition .  Houlahan said it yesterday obviously with exact numbers .

How many deaths in them 1300 were even under 40 years old ? Pretty sure I heard a figure last week when death toll was around 1000 that it was a total of 14 people under the age of 40 .

Every life matters no matter what but these stats we are hearing from all over all indicates that nursing homes should of been priority. Over 700 of death toll were in nursing homes .

We need to see more statistics, for example how many hospital admissions are healthy and lets say under 55 ?

I want the smoking statistics, of any country at this stage will do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on May 06, 2020, 04:07:35 PM
Children obviously can get it and spread it. Claiming otherwise is just moronic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 04:33:47 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on May 06, 2020, 03:59:07 PM
Every life matters no matter what but these stats we are hearing from all over all indicates that nursing homes should of been priority. Over 700 of death toll were in nursing homes .

We need to see more statistics, for example how many hospital admissions are healthy and lets say under 55 ?

The context of this is that the resident mensa branch were saying kids can't get it, therefore they cannot spread it and as a result schools should never have shut.

i.e. According to them its impossible for wee Jimmy to have got it off wee Johnny in P3 and taken it home to granny & granda.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on May 06, 2020, 04:40:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 10:18:12 AM
Quote from: Main Street on May 05, 2020, 11:59:35 PM
What particular research is all that based upon?
The only legitimate research I have come across maintains that transmission of corona virus  in primary schools/pre schools  to be very low or absent.
And in two countries South Korea and Iceland, which kept pre-school and primary schools open in this time of covid-19, nothing has happened to deviate from that research opinion. And this is in two countries which have test, trace and quarantine down to an art form. If something happened, it would have been discovered.

Its a pragmatic call based on schools being a transmission centre for other viruses passing through the population.

Yes, there are some studies indicating that it has little effect on death rates, but even those note it can have a substantial effect on ICU admissions:

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/mrc-gida/2020-03-16-COVID19-Report-9.pdf

....

Really, ICL should have presented sensitivities to their assumptions. Not great quality work.

Nope not great work, in fact the Imperial College report is a stand out discredited report which was not peer reviewed.
Quote
There are studies on SARS that indicate they may only have a small effect.

But - I'd want to be very sure of that before reopening. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. For instance, you have this:

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/6/20-0239_article

]We found a sharply increasing proportion of infected children (from 2% before January 24 to 13% for January 25–February 5; p<0.001), implying that increased exposure for children and intrafamily transmission might contribute substantially to the epidemic.
A summary quote from a short report  which says   "might contribute to"   is indeed very weak.

Ireland has a grossly inefficient test program (test & result).  Though Fine Gael are seamlessly very good at imposing martial law on the plebs,  they are at a convincing loss persuading how a society can gradually proceed out of a full lock down. So yes I can appreciate there are genuine public confidence issues when it comes to opening schools in a continued atmosphere of inefficiency and new infections.
In a real world experiment.
Finland, a country in lock down allowed kindergartens to be open as well as  primary 1st 2nd and 3rd grade,  But attendance is voluntary.
https://www.foreigner.fi/articulo/coronavirus/corona-has-been-found-in-18-kindergartens-in-helsinki/20200421191343005422.html (https://www.foreigner.fi/articulo/coronavirus/corona-has-been-found-in-18-kindergartens-in-helsinki/20200421191343005422.html)
Some infections were found with teachers (contracted outside school),  but in general it went well.  At all times, teachers/carers were advised to follow the social distancing. Unlike Ireland and UK, Finland are  pro-active with testing and same day results for such employees. There was no deviation from the general consensus in Finland that children were not at threat in school and were not a source of contagion outside and at home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 05:20:09 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 06, 2020, 04:40:19 PM
Ireland has a grossly inefficient test program (test & result). 

In which case our best option is to observe a country better setup and let them lead the way and learn from their experience rather than make our own mistakes.


Post #4763 link 2 was probably a bit more conclusive:
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/05/04/science.abb8001

QuoteWe find that social distancing alone, as implemented in China during the outbreak, is sufficient to control COVID-19. While proactive school closures cannot interrupt transmission on their own, they can reduce peak incidence by 40-60% and delay the epidemic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omaghjoe on May 06, 2020, 05:27:14 PM
Found this website to have some useful graphing of the epidemic

This graph especially to compare different countries
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=ITA+ESP+USA+GBR+KOR+DEU+IRL
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 06, 2020, 05:38:30 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on May 06, 2020, 03:59:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 02:01:22 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 01:39:17 PM
No we wouldn't have been fine but we would have saved thousands of life's
Hindsight? Did you not see what was happening in Italy? We were basically given a 3 week window
From the very start the word was it will ravage the elderly and people with underlying health issues.
That was everywhere you looked on tv
Hindsight doesn't work for this one I'm afraid as everyone knew what was coming over the hill

Any sign of the proof that kids don't get it or spread it smurfy?

Or are you now admitting they can do both?

What are kids  0-18 years ?

1300 odd deaths in 26 ,  around 1100 had underlying health condition .  Houlahan said it yesterday obviously with exact numbers .

How many deaths in them 1300 were even under 40 years old ? Pretty sure I heard a figure last week when death toll was around 1000 that it was a total of 14 people under the age of 40 .

Every life matters no matter what but these stats we are hearing from all over all indicates that nursing homes should of been priority. Over 700 of death toll were in nursing homes .

We need to see more statistics, for example how many hospital admissions are healthy and lets say under 55 ?

The Italians a while ago were excellent at releasing stats on those who died, haven't seen anything from the UK or Ireland like this apart from the average of someone dying to be 84 in Ireland. I think there's been one death of someone under 18 who apparenlty had no underlying health issues in the UK. They estimate that somewhere between 5-10% of the population in the UK have it but if for arguments sake we say its 5% then equate that to 21% of the population who are under 18 then you're looking at one person under 18 out of nearly 700,000 who've likely contracted it has died whom had no underlying health issues.

Its fairly damm obvious that its not an issue for the youth.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 05:49:06 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 06, 2020, 05:38:30 PMIts fairly damm obvious that its not an issue for the youth.

That is entirely irrelevant! Its beyond clear at this point that the risk to younger folks is much reduced.

The problem is them getting it and then bringing it home to someone who is affected much more drastically. Whether to parents or to grandparents.

That is why schools are closed - to mostly protect the teachers and parents/grandparents of the kids, not the kids themselves.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 06, 2020, 06:00:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 05:49:06 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 06, 2020, 05:38:30 PMIts fairly damm obvious that its not an issue for the youth.

That is entirely irrelevant! Its beyond clear at this point that the risk to younger folks is much reduced.

The problem is them getting it and then bringing it home to someone who is affected much more drastically. Whether to parents or to grandparents.

That is why schools are closed - to mostly protect the teachers and parents/grandparents of the kids, not the kids themselves.

Its not irrelevant at all, its a very important stat if correct. My kids won't be going near their grandparents for the foreseeable future unless they can get a test which shows their asymptomatic. 

Surely if parents are at risk they'll be isolating too along with everyone they share the household with?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 06:37:55 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 06, 2020, 06:00:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 06, 2020, 05:49:06 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 06, 2020, 05:38:30 PMIts fairly damm obvious that its not an issue for the youth.

That is entirely irrelevant! Its beyond clear at this point that the risk to younger folks is much reduced.

The problem is them getting it and then bringing it home to someone who is affected much more drastically. Whether to parents or to grandparents.

That is why schools are closed - to mostly protect the teachers and parents/grandparents of the kids, not the kids themselves.

Its not irrelevant at all, its a very important stat if correct. My kids won't be going near their grandparents for the foreseeable future unless they can get a test which shows their asymptomatic.

Surely if parents are at risk they'll be isolating too along with everyone they share the household with?

Not following your thought train.

You are saying its not an issue for youth, I'm saying it never really was relevant to the youth - its more about who they'd pass it on to.

You then say that's not the case, and that your kids would not be allowed near your higher risk relations for fear they'd pass it on.


I think we're saying the same thing differently.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 06, 2020, 06:44:49 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 06, 2020, 05:27:14 PM
Found this website to have some useful graphing of the epidemic

This graph especially to compare different countries
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-deaths-per-million-7-day-average?country=ITA+ESP+USA+GBR+KOR+DEU+IRL

The UK curve is almost identical to Italy. Just three weeks behind.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 06, 2020, 07:05:32 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 06, 2020, 07:46:10 AM
Quote from: Main Street on May 05, 2020, 11:59:35 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2020, 05:04:00 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 04:45:29 PMI would also expect the governments now regret closing schools.

Absolutely not.

1 family contracts virus.

Their kid goes into school.

30 kids contract virus.

30 families contract virus.

The siblings of those 30 families go into school.

30^x kids contract virus

30^x families contract virus

Health service overwhelmed.
What particular research is all that based upon?
The only legitimate research I have come across maintains that transmission of corona virus  in primary schools/pre schools  to be very low or absent.
And in two countries South Korea and Iceland, which kept pre-school and primary schools open in this time of covid-19, nothing has happened to deviate from that research opinion. And this is in two countries which have test, trace and quarantine down to an art form. If something happened, it would have been discovered.

Iceland stayed open - SK closed

Iceland only had the bare minimum of children attending, my  nephews live there. They went in every 2nd day, taeching staff massively reduced, no dinners, they only attended 8:20-12.  P7s studied online. Everything else there businesses etc was more or less exactly like Ireland. Ireland has done well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on May 06, 2020, 08:01:38 PM
 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/nyregion/kawasaki-disease-coronavirus.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/nyregion/kawasaki-disease-coronavirus.html)

Children Are Falling Ill With a Baffling Ailment Related to Covid-19

No children are known to have died so far, but several have ended up in intensive care with mysterious symptoms that include enlarged coronary arteries.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 06, 2020, 08:28:44 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 06, 2020, 08:01:38 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/nyregion/kawasaki-disease-coronavirus.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/nyregion/kawasaki-disease-coronavirus.html)

Children Are Falling Ill With a Baffling Ailment Related to Covid-19

No children are known to have died so far, but several have ended up in intensive care with mysterious symptoms that include enlarged coronary arteries.

Yeah, I posted about that yesterday.

Up to 64 in NY today, and apparently also cases in Europe and the midwest.

But... it doesn't affect kids. ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 09:25:38 PM
17 counties in the 26 showing no spike in deaths from other years
Dublin
Cavan
Monaghan
Cork

A few others the rest not?
Any reason?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 06, 2020, 09:30:14 PM
I am sure there are many... what do you think the reason is?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ned on May 06, 2020, 09:36:45 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 09:25:38 PM
17 counties in the 26 showing no spike in deaths from other years
Dublin
Cavan
Monaghan
Cork

A few others the rest not?
Any reason?

Yes, the measures implemented have worked!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on May 06, 2020, 11:27:04 PM
Please stop engaging with this absolute idiot and just mute him.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 06, 2020, 11:29:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 06, 2020, 11:27:04 PM
Please stop engaging with this absolute idiot and just mute him.
+1.
Just put him on ignore list
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 11:52:46 PM
Give over rossfan will you.
It's a debate what's wrong with giving my opinion on things.
It's a god damn discussion board ffs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 06, 2020, 11:54:31 PM
So just to ask Karen from FB, can kids get it and if so pass it on? Asking for a friend?

Also if you live 4.7 km from the border, can you go to the shop in the south?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 07, 2020, 01:06:40 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 06, 2020, 09:25:38 PM
17 counties in the 26 showing no spike in deaths from other years
Dublin
Cavan
Monaghan
Cork

A few others the rest not?
Any reason?

Any link on the deaths per county from this virus?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 07, 2020, 07:52:15 AM
 https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1257635680269860865.html (https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1257635680269860865.html)

A little exaggerated but not far from the truth either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 07, 2020, 09:01:27 AM
322 people under 45 have died from Covid 19 in the UK which works out about 1.1% of deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 07, 2020, 09:25:03 AM
Carehomes are the big story now in the North.
Deeply worrying statistics coming out of some
Blind leading the blind
Scandalous
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 07, 2020, 09:32:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 06, 2020, 11:54:31 PM
So just to ask Karen from FB, can kids get it and if so pass it on? Asking for a friend?

Also if you live 4.7 km from the border, can you go to the shop in the south?

Think an angry mob has congregated at Emyvale to stop me going to the shop.

Luckily there is about 4 other ways into the South  :-X
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 07, 2020, 11:21:50 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 06, 2020, 11:29:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 06, 2020, 11:27:04 PM
Please stop engaging with this absolute idiot and just mute him.
+1.
Just put him on ignore list

Rossfan with his 16000+ posts thinks he's the boss of the board.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 07, 2020, 02:07:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 07, 2020, 11:21:50 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 06, 2020, 11:29:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 06, 2020, 11:27:04 PM
Please stop engaging with this absolute idiot and just mute him.
+1.
Just put him on ignore list

Rossfan with his 16000+ posts thinks he's the boss of the board.

plenty on here with an opinion on everything and an expert at nothing  ;)

the more posts the more clueless
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 07, 2020, 02:24:28 PM
Do you recommend Karen instead?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 07, 2020, 02:33:25 PM
https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9
Dashboard for the Norths Coronavirus stats
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 07, 2020, 05:20:33 PM
Hopeful news....
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0507/1137098-reproductive-rate/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 07, 2020, 06:02:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 07, 2020, 05:20:33 PM
Hopeful news....
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0507/1137098-reproductive-rate/

Hopeful indeed. Cases per day continue to fall (lowest number of cases today since mid March) and the amount of people currently in ICU continues to decline.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 07, 2020, 08:20:52 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 07, 2020, 06:02:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 07, 2020, 05:20:33 PM
Hopeful news....
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0507/1137098-reproductive-rate/

Hopeful indeed. Cases per day continue to fall (lowest number of cases today since mid March) and the amount of people currently in ICU continues to decline.

I was listening to Prof. Paddy Mallon on the radio (anyone know where he is from?). He reckoned that if we stick at it and if we test everyone who has any sort of flu and the contacts of people shown to have Covid then we might get levels down to a very small number where substantial  resumption of life would be possible. I notice today that attention has turned to people coming in at the airport, this wasn't so important when there were many cases here anyway, but will become more important as cases fall. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 07, 2020, 09:19:51 PM
Just read 95% of new cases reported today in the South of Ireland are in carehomes.
Can people not see where the problems now are
Come on now let's start opening our eyes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on May 07, 2020, 09:37:03 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 07, 2020, 09:19:51 PM
Just read 95% of new cases reported today in the South of Ireland are in carehomes.
Can people not see where the problems now are
Come on now let's start opening our eyes

Opening your eyes to see that restrictions in place has worked?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on May 07, 2020, 09:40:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 01:12:27 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 05, 2020, 01:02:26 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:56:53 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 05, 2020, 12:41:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 05, 2020, 12:40:13 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 12:33:08 PM
Radio how do you know lockdown saved life's? Are you listening to all the bullshitters at these press briefings? They have got everything wrong.
Now the first place that should have been on lockdown was carehomes. Nobody in nobody out.
Radio what's with the abuse calm down it's a discussion board

He doesn't.

He is, for whatever reasons, a Covid zealot.


Trying to get him to admit that there this a complex and grey scenario where nobody has definitive answers, is like asking a Christian hardliner to concede that God may not exist.
So in this complex and grey scenario do you advocate caution and trying to prepare or just see how it goes?

Look we have gone down a path now. Whether I agreed with that path or not doesn't matter, I've followed it closely. That's what's citizens should do. So we should see it out.

But I should never be construed as the worry for scientists. I don't accept any situation as black and white, and when future pandemics come along, I'll address them with an open mind.

The problem is, not everyone is open minded. There is a sizeable population who will literally believe anything they hear, and follow any direction they are told, as long as they trust the source. Even if that source is as consistent as a runny turd; they will still follow.

Governments and media will not trust science after this. There will be dozens of studies of Sweden's approach undertaken in the next 5 years and each of them will produce different findings. Not different good. But different enough for politicians and the media to pay less heed to scientific advice.


As such, what I would advocate is that the scientific community is a but more honest, starting now, about what they know. To reflect inwardly that maybe they don't know everything.
Are "Scientists" as one great homogeneous body claiming they have all the answers?

If whichever Government came out and said "we don't know if this will work but sure we will give it a go" what would that do to compliance levels and how would the effectiveness of the measures then be critiqued for future pandemics?

Scientists definitely got this one wrong. What did Trump call the WHO? China's Foreign relation agency? There's a lot of truth in that.

Which scientists?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on May 07, 2020, 09:44:49 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 01:51:38 PM
You honestly couldn't make this up...

UK governement's Chief Scientific Officer

🔺March 9th banning flights would "not be effective"
🔺March 12th that football games were "low risk", the day after Madrid fans travelled to Liverpool


Now what changed? After all these scientist knew late January about this pandemic

No wonder all faith has been lost in the uk governments scientific approach

By all means lampoon these individuals but I'm sure you will be the first to admit this is in no way the same as saying that scientists as a body have been wrong or that lockdowns have been wro
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 07, 2020, 09:48:41 PM
Quote from: LCohen on May 07, 2020, 09:44:49 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 05, 2020, 01:51:38 PM
You honestly couldn't make this up...

UK governement's Chief Scientific Officer

🔺March 9th banning flights would "not be effective"
🔺March 12th that football games were "low risk", the day after Madrid fans travelled to Liverpool


Now what changed? After all these scientist knew late January about this pandemic

No wonder all faith has been lost in the uk governments scientific approach

By all means lampoon these individuals but I'm sure you will be the first to admit this is in no way the same as saying that scientists as a body have been wrong or that lockdowns have been wro

I'm still trying to find out if kids get it and pass it on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 07, 2020, 10:07:30 PM
Lockdown has worked going by those statistics I'll admit to that
Another few weeks lockdown may not be a bad thing
I'd also say let's sort the carehomes
As for children yes they probably do pass it on. I'll admit when I am wrong
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omaghjoe on May 07, 2020, 10:44:09 PM
Does Simon Harris strike anybody else as a goody two shoes on a power trip?..... in the Alex Attwood mould
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 07, 2020, 11:13:00 PM
Get a fkn life Omaghjoe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Downtothewire on May 07, 2020, 11:19:15 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 07, 2020, 09:19:51 PM
Just read 95% of new cases reported today in the South of Ireland are in carehomes.
Can people not see where the problems now are
Come on now let's start opening our eyes

I wonder how many of today's new cases in the North were in nursing homes?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on May 07, 2020, 11:34:49 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 07, 2020, 10:44:09 PM
Does Simon Harris strike anybody else as a goody two shoes on a power trip?..... in the Alex Attwood mould

Another south/north battle!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 07, 2020, 11:41:59 PM
I'm not sure downtothewire. It would be good to get the breakdown
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omaghjoe on May 08, 2020, 04:57:44 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 07, 2020, 11:34:49 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 07, 2020, 10:44:09 PM
Does Simon Harris strike anybody else as a goody two shoes on a power trip?..... in the Alex Attwood mould

Another south/north battle!!!

Attwood wins hands down, that carry on where he supposedly couldn't resign his post in stormont, but (at apparent great difficulty to himself  ::) ) was giving his salary back was beyond pathetic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 08, 2020, 08:07:42 AM
3 more weeks of this goddam f**king lockdown in the North.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 08, 2020, 09:29:26 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 07, 2020, 10:07:30 PM
Lockdown has worked going by those statistics I'll admit to that
Another few weeks lockdown may not be a bad thing
I'd also say let's sort the carehomes
As for children yes they probably do pass it on. I'll admit when I am wrong

Fair play smurfy..........considering the amount of people waiting on your answer you couldnt ignore it any longer
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 08, 2020, 09:41:45 AM
This 80% furlough is too generous. People don't want to go back to work. 50% would have been plenty.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on May 08, 2020, 09:49:30 AM
I see Germany has 3 days of increases in virus cases after their first stage of reducing lockdown was introduced. I'd imagine other countries are looking closely to see how it plays out over there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 08, 2020, 09:52:00 AM
How are they working with social distancing? I assume it's still a thing?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on May 08, 2020, 10:15:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2020, 09:41:45 AM
This 80% furlough is too generous. People don't want to go back to work. 50% would have been plenty.

Absolutely not. 50% would have seen far too many trying to work reducing the effectiveness of the measures and leading to a huge amount of job losses. The problem with it is the unfair way that it compares to the self employed scheme.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 08, 2020, 10:24:36 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on May 08, 2020, 10:15:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2020, 09:41:45 AM
This 80% furlough is too generous. People don't want to go back to work. 50% would have been plenty.

Absolutely not. 50% would have seen far too many trying to work reducing the effectiveness of the measures and leading to a huge amount of job losses. The problem with it is the unfair way that it compares to the self employed scheme.

Have heard of cases were companies are adhering to SD rules and yet employees who were furloughed are reluctant to come back to work. Spoke with a few business owners last night who this applies to. Indeed a few said that they won't be having a good few back once the scheme ends. This wont end well for the employee unless the economy gets going again and quickly.
I have said it before. This virus is not going away. Long-term lockdown is not a viable solution. We need to get back to work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on May 08, 2020, 10:30:16 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on May 08, 2020, 10:15:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2020, 09:41:45 AM
This 80% furlough is too generous. People don't want to go back to work. 50% would have been plenty.

Absolutely not. 50% would have seen far too many trying to work reducing the effectiveness of the measures and leading to a huge amount of job losses. The problem with it is the unfair way that it compares to the self employed scheme.

The problem with it is that makes a fool out of key workers.

Furloughed workers are told, stay at home, stay safe. 
Key worker told to go to work, despite perceived / actual risk!

Furloughed worker earning up to £2,500
Key worker earning £10/hr

Furloughed worker has lower than usual expenses (not travelling to work)
Key worker has all usual expenses of getting to work

Key worker working in a hospital, care home, food factory will have family worried that they are going to get the virus and bring it into the house, while the rest of them are off work and still earning at no risk. 

Lots of bullshit in the media about clapping for nurses and key workers, indulged and sponsored by government to distract people from the reality of the situation that government is treating key workers like shit!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 08, 2020, 10:37:27 AM
Quote from: APM on May 08, 2020, 10:30:16 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on May 08, 2020, 10:15:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2020, 09:41:45 AM
This 80% furlough is too generous. People don't want to go back to work. 50% would have been plenty.

Absolutely not. 50% would have seen far too many trying to work reducing the effectiveness of the measures and leading to a huge amount of job losses. The problem with it is the unfair way that it compares to the self employed scheme.

The problem with it is that makes a fool out of key workers.

Furloughed workers are told, stay at home, stay safe. 
Key worker told to go to work, despite perceived / actual risk!

Furloughed worker earning up to £2,500
Key worker earning £10/hr

Furloughed worker has lower than usual expenses (not travelling to work)
Key worker has all usual expenses of getting to work

Key worker working in a hospital, care home, food factory will have family worried that they are going to get the virus and bring it into the house, while the rest of them are off work and still earning at no risk. 

Lots of bullshit in the media about clapping for nurses and key workers, indulged and sponsored by government to distract people from the reality of the situation that government is treating key workers like shit!

Clapping for Key-workers is the most condensing thing around. Just f**king pay them properly.
Anyone who claps for Key-workers and then goes out and votes Tory, or DUP or SF would want to have a word with themselves. Our Nurses had to stand in the rain for days just to get pay parity and safe staffing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on May 08, 2020, 10:40:11 AM
Quote from: APM on May 08, 2020, 10:30:16 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on May 08, 2020, 10:15:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2020, 09:41:45 AM
This 80% furlough is too generous. People don't want to go back to work. 50% would have been plenty.

Absolutely not. 50% would have seen far too many trying to work reducing the effectiveness of the measures and leading to a huge amount of job losses. The problem with it is the unfair way that it compares to the self employed scheme.

The problem with it is that makes a fool out of key workers.

Furloughed workers are told, stay at home, stay safe. 
Key worker told to go to work, despite perceived / actual risk!

Furloughed worker earning up to £2,500
Key worker earning £10/hr

Furloughed worker has lower than usual expenses (not travelling to work)
Key worker has all usual expenses of getting to work

Key worker working in a hospital, care home, food factory will have family worried that they are going to get the virus and bring it into the house, while the rest of them are off work and still earning at no risk. 

Lots of bullshit in the media about clapping for nurses and key workers, indulged and sponsored by government to distract people from the reality of the situation that government is treating key workers like shit!
Hard to disagree with that. I dont know  how else to do it. It's a tough one. The one thing I would say is that people not furloughed are far more likely to still have a job in the future. There will be mass lay offs, so rather than thinking someone else is getting nearly the same or more for doing nothing, then they should try and think of it that they are actually saving their job. It's the very reason I advised my wife against taking furlough when her company were offering it to certain percentage of staff.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 08, 2020, 10:41:32 AM
Fully agree on the clapping. The nhs workers I know hate it. If people got treated with a bit of respect in the first place. Also if they started getting proper ppe instead of telling lies every single day maybe places like care homes wouldn't be in the state they're in. That's worth a bit more than clapping.

Lots of distraction going on by UK government in particular.

The likes of the daily mail advocating the clapping - you couldn't make it up.

Today of all days should be an indicator to the uk about how full of it their government is. War heroes who are probably dying of this virus because the government are so full of shit about ppe equipment for the care homes that the war heroes they are supposedly celebrating are in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on May 08, 2020, 10:42:08 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on May 08, 2020, 10:15:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2020, 09:41:45 AM
This 80% furlough is too generous. People don't want to go back to work. 50% would have been plenty.

Absolutely not. 50% would have seen far too many trying to work reducing the effectiveness of the measures and leading to a huge amount of job losses. The problem with it is the unfair way that it compares to the self employed scheme.
Agreed in all that. 50% would be way too low. Though I do think trailer has a point, 80% is extremely generous.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on May 08, 2020, 10:45:45 AM
Quote from: APM on May 08, 2020, 10:30:16 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on May 08, 2020, 10:15:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2020, 09:41:45 AM
This 80% furlough is too generous. People don't want to go back to work. 50% would have been plenty.

Absolutely not. 50% would have seen far too many trying to work reducing the effectiveness of the measures and leading to a huge amount of job losses. The problem with it is the unfair way that it compares to the self employed scheme.

The problem with it is that makes a fool out of key workers.

Furloughed workers are told, stay at home, stay safe. 
Key worker told to go to work, despite perceived / actual risk!

Furloughed worker earning up to £2,500
Key worker earning £10/hr

Furloughed worker has lower than usual expenses (not travelling to work)
Key worker has all usual expenses of getting to work

Key worker working in a hospital, care home, food factory will have family worried that they are going to get the virus and bring it into the house, while the rest of them are off work and still earning at no risk. 

Lots of bullshit in the media about clapping for nurses and key workers, indulged and sponsored by government to distract people from the reality of the situation that government is treating key workers like shit!

agree with some of these points, mate of mine got Furloughed and at the time his company emailed all furloughed staff saying they'd make up the other 20% and all would receive full pay until they return to work. the company recently put safety measures in place for at least 3/4 of the workforce to come back, but nobody will go back because they have it in writing they're getting full pay sitting at home. can see why they're not going back but the goodwill the company showed them at the start paying them 100% is being thrown back in their face in my opinion, im sure this is going on all over the country.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on May 08, 2020, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2020, 10:24:36 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on May 08, 2020, 10:15:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2020, 09:41:45 AM
This 80% furlough is too generous. People don't want to go back to work. 50% would have been plenty.

Absolutely not. 50% would have seen far too many trying to work reducing the effectiveness of the measures and leading to a huge amount of job losses. The problem with it is the unfair way that it compares to the self employed scheme.

Have heard of cases were companies are adhering to SD rules and yet employees who were furloughed are reluctant to come back to work. Spoke with a few business owners last night who this applies to. Indeed a few said that they won't be having a good few back once the scheme ends. This wont end well for the employee unless the economy gets going again and quickly.
I have said it before. This virus is not going away. Long-term lockdown is not a viable solution. We need to get back to work.
My understanding of it is that, if your job is there for you and business has implemented safety measures, ie social distancing, shift changes and the like, then you have to go back to work. If you refuse, then your employer can stop paying you? I'm know this has happened in a few companies here. Obviously a bit of discretion by employers is needed here, with differing individual circumstances.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 08, 2020, 10:52:45 AM
I missed this - so Roche supposedly have an anti-body test that is >98% accurate. That news would be a couple of weeks old now.

They were hoping to have availability in reasonable bulk by May - but with half the planet looking for it and the UK slow to do anything*, could be a while yet before we see anything tangible here.


*I get the feeling that especially applies if it "wasn't invented here".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 08, 2020, 10:55:15 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on May 08, 2020, 10:45:45 AM
Quote from: APM on May 08, 2020, 10:30:16 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on May 08, 2020, 10:15:59 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2020, 09:41:45 AM
This 80% furlough is too generous. People don't want to go back to work. 50% would have been plenty.

Absolutely not. 50% would have seen far too many trying to work reducing the effectiveness of the measures and leading to a huge amount of job losses. The problem with it is the unfair way that it compares to the self employed scheme.

The problem with it is that makes a fool out of key workers.

Furloughed workers are told, stay at home, stay safe. 
Key worker told to go to work, despite perceived / actual risk!

Furloughed worker earning up to £2,500
Key worker earning £10/hr

Furloughed worker has lower than usual expenses (not travelling to work)
Key worker has all usual expenses of getting to work

Key worker working in a hospital, care home, food factory will have family worried that they are going to get the virus and bring it into the house, while the rest of them are off work and still earning at no risk. 

Lots of bullshit in the media about clapping for nurses and key workers, indulged and sponsored by government to distract people from the reality of the situation that government is treating key workers like shit!

agree with some of these points, mate of mine got Furloughed and at the time his company emailed all furloughed staff saying they'd make up the other 20% and all would receive full pay until they return to work. the company recently put safety measures in place for at least 3/4 of the workforce to come back, but nobody will go back because they have it in writing they're getting full pay sitting at home. can see why they're not going back but the goodwill the company showed them at the start paying them 100% is being thrown back in their face in my opinion, im sure this is going on all over the country.

I know of one at least one instance where a company asked a Furloughed worked to come back and he point blank refused. The boss said to me he'll not be having him back...ever. Redundancy.
Another company owner told me he'll not be having 20% of the work force back as he won't need them. This was a company crying looking staff only 2 months ago, never had enough. Says it a good opportunity to get rid of certain employees who under perform.

A wee tip... if you're furloughed, ring your boss and ask when you can come back. This is not paid holiday leave and companies are still responsible for the PAYE tax. It's a drain on the business when nothing is coming in. It can't go on forever.

No matter what anyone says 80% for sitting at home is far far to generous.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 08, 2020, 11:20:15 AM
Quote from: ardtole on May 08, 2020, 09:49:30 AM
I see Germany has 3 days of increases in virus cases after their first stage of reducing lockdown was introduced. I'd imagine other countries are looking closely to see how it plays out over there.

That's the 5th time that has happened in the last 5 weeks, if it continues over the next few days then its very concerning.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on May 08, 2020, 11:26:37 AM
What's the alternative?  The 80% isn't only for protecting people here and now. It's for protecting people and the economy in the long term. The economy can't yet get back to normal. The furlough scheme isn't perfect but it's necessary. Set it too low and employees will try to return to work too early undermining what's been done. In addition if it's not there for employers to effectively use then the number of job losses would be far more catastrophic to the economy than the temporary suspension we have at the minute.  The issue I have on it is no upper limit on it when there is an outdated limit on the self employed.

None of that takes away from the fact that key workers are being shafted but the answer is to treat them better not to treat the furloughed worker worse. It all though does make a nonsense of the lie that we are all in it together.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 08, 2020, 11:41:02 AM
Another wee tip. Maybe some people don't want to go back as they don't feel it's safe yet. If they're not deemed key workers then they are well within their rights. If an employer isn't taking them back into employment because they've not returned early from their furlough then there's a chance they are a shitty employer. There's a bit more to this than purely money.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: SHEEDY on May 08, 2020, 11:42:31 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on May 08, 2020, 11:26:37 AM
What's the alternative?  The 80% isn't only for protecting people here and now. It's for protecting people and the economy in the long term. The economy can't yet get back to normal. The furlough scheme isn't perfect but it's necessary. Set it too low and employees will try to return to work too early undermining what's been done. In addition if it's not there for employers to effectively use then the number of job losses would be far more catastrophic to the economy than the temporary suspension we have at the minute.  The issue I have on it is no upper limit on it when there is an outdated limit on the self employed.

None of that takes away from the fact that key workers are being shafted but the answer is to treat them better not to treat the furloughed worker worse. It all though does make a nonsense of the lie that we are all in it together.
if a company has a certain percentage of employees on furlough and others back in work, how does it work then in the event of pay offs? Are all employees treated the same and a redundancy procedure takes place or are furloughed workers in a position were company could say we don't need you back?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 08, 2020, 11:56:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 08, 2020, 11:41:02 AM
Another wee tip. Maybe some people don't want to go back as they don't feel it's safe yet. If they're not deemed key workers then they are well within their rights. If an employer isn't taking them back into employment because they've not returned early from their furlough then there's a chance they are a shitty employer. There's a bit more to this than purely money.

Look there's gonna be a contraction when this is over and jobs will go at good and shitty employers. Work will be scarce and interviews will be competitive.
Believe me this is all money. Cashflow is non existent and there is absolutely no room for passengers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 08, 2020, 12:09:55 PM
So are they a passenger because they won't come back from furlough early or are they a passenger anyway?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on May 08, 2020, 12:18:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2020, 11:56:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 08, 2020, 11:41:02 AM
Another wee tip. Maybe some people don't want to go back as they don't feel it's safe yet. If they're not deemed key workers then they are well within their rights. If an employer isn't taking them back into employment because they've not returned early from their furlough then there's a chance they are a shitty employer. There's a bit more to this than purely money.

Look there's gonna be a contraction when this is over and jobs will go at good and shitty employers. Work will be scarce and interviews will be competitive.
Believe me this is all money. Cashflow is non existent and there is absolutely no room for passengers.

Yeah it's a vicious circle too. Less people in work equals less disposable income equals less spending equals less cash flow for business equals more redundancies. (A simplification I know) That to me is the reason why the furlough is necessary.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on May 08, 2020, 12:20:42 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 08, 2020, 11:41:02 AM
Another wee tip. Maybe some people don't want to go back as they don't feel it's safe yet. If they're not deemed key workers then they are well within their rights. If an employer isn't taking them back into employment because they've not returned early from their furlough then there's a chance they are a shitty employer. There's a bit more to this than purely money.
Tommy I don't doubt that's the case in some instances. I have heard some horror stories about some.companies not treating it seriously enough. Likewise I have seen some companies unfairly criticised. The company my wife works for is a big employer in the town, a mortgage provider, 200/300 jobs. They were extremely proactive implementing various procedures to limit interaction way before the government done anything. Didn't stop a lot of the staff calling the company out saying they were a disgrace for not furloughing staff because they weren't a key business. They are classed as such. They had nearly everyone working from home within a week. Like I said before I think government was responsible for a lot of the confusion at the start and pitted employers against employees. That was a mistake. On your other point, is that correct, do you have the right to remain furloughed if you are too scared to come back to work? That's not my understanding of it? Obviously there will be some people living with vunerable people that I can understand the concern, and a bit of discretion by employers is required. But what about some young fella genuinely concerned for their own safety, not wanting to get the virus? I understand that concern also, but does that limited risk outweigh the need to get back to work, for themselves and the company and economy? Ultimately it will be up to the individual, but I think there has to be certain level of risk accepted by the less susceptible members of the population, ie the younger and healthier, with caveat that they are not living with someone who would be considered in the vunerable category, ie older, underlying health conditions etc. I'd be interested to hear the cut off people would think that should be? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on May 08, 2020, 12:22:27 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 08, 2020, 11:42:31 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on May 08, 2020, 11:26:37 AM
What's the alternative?  The 80% isn't only for protecting people here and now. It's for protecting people and the economy in the long term. The economy can't yet get back to normal. The furlough scheme isn't perfect but it's necessary. Set it too low and employees will try to return to work too early undermining what's been done. In addition if it's not there for employers to effectively use then the number of job losses would be far more catastrophic to the economy than the temporary suspension we have at the minute.  The issue I have on it is no upper limit on it when there is an outdated limit on the self employed.

None of that takes away from the fact that key workers are being shafted but the answer is to treat them better not to treat the furloughed worker worse. It all though does make a nonsense of the lie that we are all in it together.
if a company has a certain percentage of employees on furlough and others back in work, how does it work then in the event of pay offs? Are all employees treated the same and a redundancy procedure takes place or are furloughed workers in a position were company could say we don't need you back?

Technically you make the position redundant and not the person so the procedure would have to be followed and it shouldn't make a difference if you were furloughed or not. That's the theory anyway but there are humans involved so whether that theory holds in practice might be a different t thing. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 08, 2020, 12:22:37 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on May 08, 2020, 11:26:37 AM
What's the alternative?  The 80% isn't only for protecting people here and now. It's for protecting people and the economy in the long term. The economy can't yet get back to normal. The furlough scheme isn't perfect but it's necessary. Set it too low and employees will try to return to work too early undermining what's been done. In addition if it's not there for employers to effectively use then the number of job losses would be far more catastrophic to the economy than the temporary suspension we have at the minute.  The issue I have on it is no upper limit on it when there is an outdated limit on the self employed.

None of that takes away from the fact that key workers are being shafted but the answer is to treat them better not to treat the furloughed worker worse. It all though does make a nonsense of the lie that we are all in it together.

Millions of self employed have been absolutely shafted too, anyone I know who is self employed does so through a LTD company. My wife a tax player in the UK for the last 14 years decided to go out on her own last October and is entitled to absolutely nothing, she's not able to go and get another job as the kids need to be looked after.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedKinght on May 08, 2020, 12:23:32 PM
If a company returns to work and has all the relevant social distancing and safety precautions in place an employee is compelled to return to work unless they have been issued with a shielding letter from their GP which says they must stay off work for 12 weeks. If an employee has work and refuses to go then they will be removed from the furlough scheme and the company may proceed down the route of disciplinary action for refusing to work.

The furlough scheme means the employer pays the 80% and this is claimed back through the government. If the company is open as usual then they are not entitled to claim furlough for anyone who does not have a shielded letter, if they are open but limited staffing then the company has options. If an employee is working even on a part time basis then they are not eligible for the furlough scheme.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on May 08, 2020, 12:35:10 PM
Quote from: RedKinght on May 08, 2020, 12:23:32 PM
If a company returns to work and has all the relevant social distancing and safety precautions in place an employee is compelled to return to work unless they have been issued with a shielding letter from their GP which says they must stay off work for 12 weeks. If an employee has work and refuses to go then they will be removed from the furlough scheme and the company may proceed down the route of disciplinary action for refusing to work.

The furlough scheme means the employer pays the 80% and this is claimed back through the government. If the company is open as usual then they are not entitled to claim furlough for anyone who does not have a shielded letter, if they are open but limited staffing then the company has options. If an employee is working even on a part time basis then they are not eligible for the furlough scheme.
Thanks RK, that's what I thought. Seems a lot of confusion round this in the general public even judging by the different posts on here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedKinght on May 08, 2020, 01:57:27 PM
I forgot to mention, if an employee has not got a shielding letter and refuses to go to work the company can take that as a resignation thereby nullifying any chance of redundancy payment if the company does need to lay-off employees due to a reduction in work. (Statutory redundancy is 1 weeks pay for each year of service and you are only eligible if you have been working for a company more than 1 year)

A company can not compel you to come back to work on reduced hours if furloughed as this would be a reduction in wages.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 08, 2020, 02:03:51 PM
Interesting rk. Thanks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 08, 2020, 02:04:59 PM
I or my work colleagues globally wouldn't be able to work, mainly due to the nature of the work. Generously Furloughed but still a lot of guys potentially losing out, though all chomping at the bit to get back to work, I don't know of one employee not looking back.

As we've been looked after very well, it will be shoulder to the wheel to get us back on track. Anyone not looking back if measures are in place aren't worth taking back, though where a person requires a crèche or childminder then they are also ok for the 80% if they can't get one.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on May 08, 2020, 03:25:34 PM
Trailer talking nonsense again. Says the virus isn't going away but we should somehow be all going back to work.
As ITG rightly says, workers are not obliged to go back to work, and should work from home if they're not an essential worker as per the government instructions. Cashflow problems of the business are not the fault of the employee, and if they get sacked from work because their selfish boss wants to disobey government instructions and bring them back to work, the employees would be well within their rights to take them to court.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on May 08, 2020, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 08, 2020, 03:25:34 PM
Trailer talking nonsense again. Says the virus isn't going away but we should somehow be all going back to work.
As ITG rightly says, workers are not obliged to go back to work, and should work from home if they're not an essential worker as per the government instructions. Cashflow problems of the business are not the fault of the employee, and if they get sacked from work because their selfish boss wants to disobey government instructions and bring them back to work, the employees would be well within their rights to take them to court.
If you can work from home that's fine. A lot of other businesses like manufacturing etc, that's not the case and as RK has pointed out there is no legal right for continuation of furlough if your work as made appropriate work place provisions and  you are required back in. That's not bosses being selfish now. A lot of people think employers are trying to prevent furlough, in reality most are trying to prevent redundancies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedKinght on May 08, 2020, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 08, 2020, 03:25:34 PM
Trailer talking nonsense again. Says the virus isn't going away but we should somehow be all going back to work.
As ITG rightly says, workers are not obliged to go back to work, and should work from home if they're not an essential worker as per the government instructions. Cashflow problems of the business are not the fault of the employee, and if they get sacked from work because their selfish boss wants to disobey government instructions and bring them back to work, the employees would be well within their rights to take them to court.

This is unfortunately not accurate. With the extensive list of what is an essential worker, many businesses can make a case for qualifying if they want/need to get back to work. If it is possible to work from home the government says that you should however if this is not possible and on site location is safe an employee can not simply refuse to go to work because they don't want to. If there is work (or suitable alternative on another reasonable location for example a cleaner in a school being asked to clean a bank or supermarket instead) the employee can only stay away from work with a shielding letter without breach of contract.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on May 08, 2020, 04:30:58 PM
Quote from: RedKinght on May 08, 2020, 01:57:27 PM
I forgot to mention, if an employee has not got a shielding letter and refuses to go to work the company can take that as a resignation thereby nullifying any chance of redundancy payment if the company does need to lay-off employees due to a reduction in work. (Statutory redundancy is 1 weeks pay for each year of service and you are only eligible if you have been working for a company more than 1 year)

A company can not compel you to come back to work on reduced hours if furloughed as this would be a reduction in wages.
[/b]

Subject to caveats about short time and lay off and industry standards etc.

Yes a large amount of the self employed are pretty badly screwed over. The calculations are done based on figures that are at most recent 13 months old. They don't take account of what's happened over the last thirteen months. They don't take account of seasonal issues, they don't take account of fixed costs. They don't take account of the actual impact on the business. The support is slow to be delivered and is artificially capped when no equivalent cap applies to the employed. Most of this I don't have a personal problem with but when it's coupled with the inevitable increase in taxes that will doubtlessly follow this virus I'd be pretty confident the same distinctions won't be drawn. When that is coupled with the notion that "we are all in this together" it really sickens me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 08, 2020, 04:48:51 PM
I've said this a number of times before on this thread, but it's worth repeating again.

It is wrong that only "essential" workplaces should be operational.  Manufacturing has been told that they should get back to work by the UK government, and there is guidance published which clearly states this.  This letter is as far back as the 8th April: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/878651/Letter_from_Secretary_of_State_Alok_Sharma_MP_to_those_working_in_Manufacturing.pdf

And here in NI, we have the priority sectors list: https://www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/sites/default/files/Priority-Sectors-List_0.pdf, This list has been produced  "to support companies to continue their business operations".

Businesses have to get back to work, otherwise there is a real risk that there won't be viable jobs in these firms once this pandemic has passed us.  That's going to undoubtedly be uncomfortable for some employees who would rather stay at home for 80% of their salary, but businesses need to get revenue back through their virtual tills, and I'm afraid that it won't be employees who decide when that needs to happen.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on May 08, 2020, 04:55:31 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on May 08, 2020, 04:48:51 PM
I've said this a number of times before on this thread, but it's worth repeating again.

It is wrong that only "essential" workplaces should be operational.  Manufacturing has been told that they should get back to work by the UK government, and there is guidance published which clearly states this.  This letter is as far back as the 8th April: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/878651/Letter_from_Secretary_of_State_Alok_Sharma_MP_to_those_working_in_Manufacturing.pdf

And here in NI, we have the priority sectors list: https://www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/sites/default/files/Priority-Sectors-List_0.pdf, This list has been produced  "to support companies to continue their business operations".

Businesses have to get back to work, otherwise there is a real risk that there won't be viable jobs in these firms once this pandemic has passed us.  That's going to undoubtedly be uncomfortable for some employees who would rather stay at home for 80% of their salary, but businesses need to get revenue back through their virtual tills, and I'm afraid that it won't be employees who decide when that needs to happen.




Spot on!
There is going to be a lot of emotion around this also when businesses start up again. Many people are going to have genuine concerns.  Can imagine that the staff on some of those planes aren't too enamored with the approach to distancing. I can also see a lot of grief for responsible employers from staff who don't want to be there, spurred on by unions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on May 08, 2020, 04:58:57 PM
Quote from: RedKinght on May 08, 2020, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 08, 2020, 03:25:34 PM
Trailer talking nonsense again. Says the virus isn't going away but we should somehow be all going back to work.
As ITG rightly says, workers are not obliged to go back to work, and should work from home if they're not an essential worker as per the government instructions. Cashflow problems of the business are not the fault of the employee, and if they get sacked from work because their selfish boss wants to disobey government instructions and bring them back to work, the employees would be well within their rights to take them to court.

This is unfortunately not accurate. With the extensive list of what is an essential worker, many businesses can make a case for qualifying if they want/need to get back to work. If it is possible to work from home the government says that you should however if this is not possible and on site location is safe an employee can not simply refuse to go to work because they don't want to. If there is work (or suitable alternative on another reasonable location for example a cleaner in a school being asked to clean a bank or supermarket instead) the employee can only stay away from work with a shielding letter without breach of contract.
Not quite. I didn't say refuse to work because they don't want to. Business turning round now and saying their employees are essential workers all of a sudden isn't going to cut it. Employees who have concerns over the safety of their workplace are well within their rights not to attend.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 08, 2020, 06:06:47 PM
They need clear standards for each sector as to what is acceptable and a bit of work is needed to achieve that.
They also need some principle about people living with vulnerable folks.

27 deaths today in the 26 counties, which is plenty but these could have been a week ago But new 156 cases is definitely going in the right direction given that you can now get tested. If they keep at it they can reduce this plague.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 08, 2020, 09:34:19 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 08, 2020, 04:58:57 PM
Quote from: RedKinght on May 08, 2020, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 08, 2020, 03:25:34 PM
Trailer talking nonsense again. Says the virus isn't going away but we should somehow be all going back to work.
As ITG rightly says, workers are not obliged to go back to work, and should work from home if they're not an essential worker as per the government instructions. Cashflow problems of the business are not the fault of the employee, and if they get sacked from work because their selfish boss wants to disobey government instructions and bring them back to work, the employees would be well within their rights to take them to court.

This is unfortunately not accurate. With the extensive list of what is an essential worker, many businesses can make a case for qualifying if they want/need to get back to work. If it is possible to work from home the government says that you should however if this is not possible and on site location is safe an employee can not simply refuse to go to work because they don't want to. If there is work (or suitable alternative on another reasonable location for example a cleaner in a school being asked to clean a bank or supermarket instead) the employee can only stay away from work with a shielding letter without breach of contract.
Not quite. I didn't say refuse to work because they don't want to. Business turning round now and saying their employees are essential workers all of a sudden isn't going to cut it. Employees who have concerns over the safety of their workplace are well within their rights not to attend.

More brains in a false face
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on May 08, 2020, 09:37:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2020, 09:34:19 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 08, 2020, 04:58:57 PM
Quote from: RedKinght on May 08, 2020, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 08, 2020, 03:25:34 PM
Trailer talking nonsense again. Says the virus isn't going away but we should somehow be all going back to work.
As ITG rightly says, workers are not obliged to go back to work, and should work from home if they're not an essential worker as per the government instructions. Cashflow problems of the business are not the fault of the employee, and if they get sacked from work because their selfish boss wants to disobey government instructions and bring them back to work, the employees would be well within their rights to take them to court.

This is unfortunately not accurate. With the extensive list of what is an essential worker, many businesses can make a case for qualifying if they want/need to get back to work. If it is possible to work from home the government says that you should however if this is not possible and on site location is safe an employee can not simply refuse to go to work because they don't want to. If there is work (or suitable alternative on another reasonable location for example a cleaner in a school being asked to clean a bank or supermarket instead) the employee can only stay away from work with a shielding letter without breach of contract.
Not quite. I didn't say refuse to work because they don't want to. Business turning round now and saying their employees are essential workers all of a sudden isn't going to cut it. Employees who have concerns over the safety of their workplace are well within their rights not to attend.

More brains in a false face
Says the one smarter than all the scientists. Have you finished that 24 hours of reading yet?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 08, 2020, 10:08:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2020, 09:34:19 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 08, 2020, 04:58:57 PM
Quote from: RedKinght on May 08, 2020, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on May 08, 2020, 03:25:34 PM
Trailer talking nonsense again. Says the virus isn't going away but we should somehow be all going back to work.
As ITG rightly says, workers are not obliged to go back to work, and should work from home if they're not an essential worker as per the government instructions. Cashflow problems of the business are not the fault of the employee, and if they get sacked from work because their selfish boss wants to disobey government instructions and bring them back to work, the employees would be well within their rights to take them to court.

This is unfortunately not accurate. With the extensive list of what is an essential worker, many businesses can make a case for qualifying if they want/need to get back to work. If it is possible to work from home the government says that you should however if this is not possible and on site location is safe an employee can not simply refuse to go to work because they don't want to. If there is work (or suitable alternative on another reasonable location for example a cleaner in a school being asked to clean a bank or supermarket instead) the employee can only stay away from work with a shielding letter without breach of contract.
Not quite. I didn't say refuse to work because they don't want to. Business turning round now and saying their employees are essential workers all of a sudden isn't going to cut it. Employees who have concerns over the safety of their workplace are well within their rights not to attend.

More brains in a false face

:D Are you tyrone's version of Donald trump?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 09, 2020, 12:28:22 AM
Getting ready for reopening....
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0508/1137355-return-to-work-protocol/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 10, 2020, 12:40:38 PM
I see Boris's new Stay Alert message has went down well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on May 10, 2020, 01:47:30 PM
This is pretty grim

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/care-homes-coronavirus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on May 10, 2020, 03:08:58 PM
Hope everyones getting excited for big Boris later.

Ye cant help but love the guy

- feeling emotional
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 10, 2020, 06:19:50 PM
An update on the confirmed new cases for the week in the ROI

April 6th to 12th - 4661 new cases
April 13th to 19th - 5596
April 20th to 26th  - 4011
April 27th to May 3rd 2244
This week May 4th to 10th 1494


Hopefully before phase 1 of lifting of restrictions on Monday week that cases get below 1000 for the week ahead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 10, 2020, 06:29:27 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on May 10, 2020, 03:08:58 PM
Hope everyones getting excited for big Boris later.

Ye cant help but love the guy

- feeling emotional

Prerecorded statement  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 10, 2020, 06:38:15 PM
I see Arlene and Campbell are trying to say the North should be doing the same as the 26.
Of course they can't say it like that..Regional variances in the United(sic) Kingdom etc...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 10, 2020, 06:58:03 PM
They'd have hard job, ROI Government likes to keep things secret from the NI administration for some reason. Newton Emerson had a good article about it in the Irish News on Thursday, it's available but behind a paywall.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 10, 2020, 07:07:51 PM
BoJo coming accross like an angry little man.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 10, 2020, 07:21:53 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 10, 2020, 06:58:03 PM
They'd have hard job, ROI Government likes to keep things secret from the NI administration for some reason. Newton Emerson had a good article about it in the Irish News on Thursday, it's available but behind a paywall.

Can you not get it if you delete the cookies?

That message stay alert is so bad it is probably deliberate so people talk about it rather than the rest of this shambles.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 10, 2020, 07:47:59 PM
That's it sorted then!

So basically it's back to work if you can social distance.

Unless
You work in a pub
Restaurant
Cafe
Shops
Gym
Teach p1 or p6

Ok if you work in construction and manufacturing, hopefully those places have toilet facilities sorted and lunchtime sorted, cue hundreds of photos on FB of work spaces full of people closely packed together!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 10, 2020, 07:49:32 PM
Has there ever been a bigger fool in charge of the UK?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 10, 2020, 08:47:20 PM
Hopefully he'll be the cause of breaking it up.

Meanwhile
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0510/1137530-northern-ireland-coronavirus/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 10, 2020, 10:13:26 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 10, 2020, 06:58:03 PM
They'd have hard job, ROI Government likes to keep things secret from the NI administration for some reason.

Because they are eejits, perhaps?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aristo 60 on May 10, 2020, 10:17:41 PM
Lying in bed last night it struck me I haven't heard the phrase 'single use plastic' much this last 7 weeks. Also, what has become of Greta Thundercat?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 10, 2020, 10:32:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 10, 2020, 10:13:26 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 10, 2020, 06:58:03 PM
They'd have hard job, ROI Government likes to keep things secret from the NI administration for some reason.

Because they are eejits, perhaps?
That is a given but I don't think so.
- Leo grandstanding
- Rubbing SF noses in it N&S. I think it's finally dawned on MON what's she's dealing with
- Not giving one flying f**k about the North in general
- Being seen to appear be ahead of the game (& UK)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 10, 2020, 11:13:51 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 10, 2020, 10:32:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 10, 2020, 10:13:26 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 10, 2020, 06:58:03 PM
They'd have hard job, ROI Government likes to keep things secret from the NI administration for some reason.

Because they are eejits, perhaps?
That is a given but I don't think so.
- Leo grandstanding
- Rubbing SF noses in it N&S. I think it's finally dawned on MON what's she's dealing with
- Not giving one flying f**k about the North in general
- Being seen to appear be ahead of the game (& UK)

They had the meeting in Armagh at the start of this, Foster said we'll not cooperate, Varadkar wants things done and so he does the right thing without wasting time on Stormont. Stopping a  pandemic is hard enough without pandering to unionist bigotry.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 10, 2020, 11:58:01 PM
Going to be hard to get an All Ireland consensus without wasting some of his time, if he used his Political skills he could hace gotten Unionists on board, but he wont by backing them into a political corner with 10 minutes advance notice of lockdown. To be honest I think he would have had more issues dealing with SF after the recent election.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 11, 2020, 12:35:29 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 10, 2020, 11:58:01 PM
Going to be hard to get an All Ireland consensus without wasting some of his time, if he used his Political skills he could hace gotten Unionists on board, but he wont by backing them into a political corner with 10 minutes advance notice of lockdown. To be honest I think he would have had more issues dealing with SF after the recent election.

If they refuse to have a proper policy there isn't much Leo can do about it. The WHO said you should test people and trace, yet Swann abandoned this at the first opportunity and did not consult Dublin about it.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 11, 2020, 12:43:08 AM
It was all gung ho "we're Brits" etc in the beginning.
Now it's "variances in the regions of the UK" ...or in other words we should have gone with WHO advice like the Irish Government did and as Michelle O'Neill said.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 11, 2020, 08:19:29 AM
That's the difference having a bit of time to make a rational (not a Political) decision makes, pity there wasn't more thought and coordination previously.  NI extended it's lockdown by 3 weeks on Thursday past btw.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hereiam on May 11, 2020, 09:05:53 AM
Schools will not be opening this side of the summer. 😢😢😢
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 11, 2020, 09:52:29 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 11, 2020, 12:35:29 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 10, 2020, 11:58:01 PM
Going to be hard to get an All Ireland consensus without wasting some of his time, if he used his Political skills he could hace gotten Unionists on board, but he wont by backing them into a political corner with 10 minutes advance notice of lockdown. To be honest I think he would have had more issues dealing with SF after the recent election.

If they refuse to have a proper policy there isn't much Leo can do about it. The WHO said you should test people and trace, yet Swann abandoned this at the first opportunity and did not consult Dublin about it.

Testing costs money. I doubt tracing will ever happen here. Which is sad when you look at how some of the Asian Countries who could be bothered got on with it.

Not sure how true it is, would need to check but seen a tweet during course of weekend where Japan (with the oldest population in the world) is having massive success (in comparison to the UK).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 11, 2020, 11:09:12 AM
2 different articles in the Irish News today about ROI Government and their attitude to NI. 'Taoiseach accused of paying lip service to agreement between the 2 Governments' & 'Dublin socially distancing from North long before Coronavirus'.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 11, 2020, 11:52:50 AM
Awwww diddums....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mouview on May 11, 2020, 12:05:40 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 11, 2020, 11:09:12 AM
2 different articles in the Irish News today about ROI Government and their attitude to NI. 'Taoiseach accused of paying lip service to agreement between the 2 Governments' & 'Dublin socially distancing from North long before Coronavirus'.

What do they want 'Dublin' to do? Invade?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 11, 2020, 12:24:29 PM
Be genuine I would have thought.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 11, 2020, 01:02:52 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 11, 2020, 09:52:29 AM
Testing costs money. I doubt tracing will ever happen here. Which is sad when you look at how some of the Asian Countries who could be bothered got on with it.


Even more sad when you consider the amount of civil servants there are per head here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 11, 2020, 01:06:03 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 11, 2020, 11:09:12 AM
2 different articles in the Irish News today about ROI Government and their attitude to NI. 'Taoiseach accused of paying lip service to agreement between the 2 Governments' & 'Dublin socially distancing from North long before Coronavirus'.

What is the point trying to work with the unworkable.

Between SF having to run things past the provos and the DUP having to run things past the UDA - which leads to overnight U turns - what the fukk would be the point?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 11, 2020, 01:06:23 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 11, 2020, 12:24:29 PM
Be genuine I would have thought.

What part of Stormont is genuine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 11, 2020, 01:39:41 PM
I'm guessing a lot of people are missing the irony of NI not following an All Ireland approach when it's been neutered / sabotaged from the very start by the Leo's approach.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 11, 2020, 01:45:08 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 11, 2020, 01:39:41 PM
I'm guessing a lot of people are missing the irony of NI not following an All Ireland approach when it's been neutered / sabotaged from the very start by the Leo's approach.

Stop spouting nonsense. There is nothing stopping NI from following Leo's approach except bigotry.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 11, 2020, 02:08:14 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 11, 2020, 01:06:03 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 11, 2020, 11:09:12 AM
2 different articles in the Irish News today about ROI Government and their attitude to NI. 'Taoiseach accused of paying lip service to agreement between the 2 Governments' & 'Dublin socially distancing from North long before Coronavirus'.

What is the point trying to work with the unworkable.

Between SF having to run things past the provos and the DUP having to run things past the UDA - which leads to overnight U turns - what the fukk would be the point?

Am I right in saying your against cross border policies, bodies etc?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 11, 2020, 02:25:07 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 11, 2020, 02:08:14 PM
Am I right in saying your against cross border policies, bodies etc?

No. This has a time pressure that normal cross-border politics doesn't. Burning hours for no progress is begrudgingly accepted in politics.


Days spent fukking around with neanderthals and their caveman politics before being able to change measures as far as Coronavirus is concerned can make a big difference when every hour counts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 11, 2020, 03:04:49 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 11, 2020, 02:25:07 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 11, 2020, 02:08:14 PM
Am I right in saying your against cross border policies, bodies etc?

No. This has a time pressure that normal cross-border politics doesn't. Burning hours for no progress is begrudgingly accepted in politics.


Days spent fukking around with neanderthals and their caveman politics before being able to change measures as far as Coronavirus is concerned can make a big difference when every hour counts.

It doesn't take much time to give the NI a separate update before going public, We're the only other "Country" with a land border. Unless we're a complete irrelevance of course.

*I don't argue the caveman and neanderthals comment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 11, 2020, 03:22:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 11, 2020, 01:45:08 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 11, 2020, 01:39:41 PM
I'm guessing a lot of people are missing the irony of NI not following an All Ireland approach when it's been neutered / sabotaged from the very start by the Leo's approach.

Stop spouting nonsense. There is nothing stopping NI from following Leo's approach except bigotry.
You're very fond of the blame the Prods line, tiresome & pointless. Also, maybe try and stop missing the actual point - read Michelle O'Neill's recent comments.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 11, 2020, 03:37:39 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 11, 2020, 03:22:33 PM
You're very fond of the blame the Prods line, tiresome & pointless. Also, maybe try and stop missing the actual point - read Michelle O'Neill's recent comments.

Michelle O'Neill slated health minister Robin Swann over a decision to follow Whitehall's lead in abandoning community testing in March and I fully agree with her.
Michelle O'Neill said, a couple of days ago,  there should be a regular programme of testing for all residents and staff in residential homes and "no stone must be left unturned in supporting care homes right now". This now seems to be happening but this should have been done a fortnight ago.

You explain to me why it was not done then, if it not unionists following Boris. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 11, 2020, 04:15:44 PM
Yeah, you're not replying to the actual point I've made tho, go and buy/ read today's Irish News or read up on what she's been saying about Leo.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 11, 2020, 04:58:16 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0511/1137712-northern-ireland/

How many times does that woman have to say UK in any statement?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 11, 2020, 05:05:33 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 11, 2020, 04:15:44 PM
Yeah, you're not replying to the actual point I've made tho, go and buy/ read today's Irish News or read up on what she's been saying about Leo.

Likely she is having a go at Leo because he was nasty to Mary-Lou. Leo might be a bollix, but that doesn't mean his Covid19 policy is wrong.
O'Neill should look at her own administration.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: michaelg on May 11, 2020, 08:03:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 11, 2020, 04:58:16 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0511/1137712-northern-ireland/

How many times does that woman have to say UK in any statement?
To coin a phrase - "Awww diddums".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 11, 2020, 08:07:59 PM
Scientists with some clear advice in the UK. They haven't a baldy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 11, 2020, 08:57:07 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 11, 2020, 03:04:49 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 11, 2020, 02:25:07 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 11, 2020, 02:08:14 PM
Am I right in saying your against cross border policies, bodies etc?

No. This has a time pressure that normal cross-border politics doesn't. Burning hours for no progress is begrudgingly accepted in politics.


Days spent fukking around with neanderthals and their caveman politics before being able to change measures as far as Coronavirus is concerned can make a big difference when every hour counts.

It doesn't take much time to give the NI a separate update before going public, We're the only other "Country" with a land border. Unless we're a complete irrelevance of course.

To what end?

All it would do would be play to the egos of those in Stormont.

They aren't going to find out significantly earlier than the general public.
They aren't going to make any decisions based on that new information as they cannot agree on the colour of shite as it is.
They aren't going to have any valuable input into the ROI government's decision making process.

As long as Stormont blindly trot out the London line, they are an irrelevance. He's right to utterly ignore them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on May 12, 2020, 09:16:36 AM
Interesting comparison of figures between Ireland and Sweden

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0511/1137763-what-can-we-learn-from-swedens-covid-19-icu-figures/

It can be very tricky to compare the Covid-19 experiences of different countries. Populations are not evenly distributed in terms of age, location, ethnicity, social class, or culture. Different groups and regions are not equally susceptible to the virus.

Then there is the fact that countries measure the impact of the coronavirus differently. For instance, Ireland is one of only a very small number of European countries that includes both nursing homes and suspected or probable Covid-19 cases in official numbers.

This doesn't stop people making international comparisons though. With so many people straining at the leash to break out of lockdown, many point to the different experience in Sweden with no lockdown. It raises questions about whether Ireland's social, travel, and work restrictions needed to be so tough here after all.

For anyone who asks that question of Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan, he has a very sharp and succinct answer: "Have you seen the intensive care admissions figures for Sweden?"

Well actually, no, not really. We haven't seen those figures. Sweden's ICU caseload is hardly headline news here. Perhaps it should be. Because there is something important that Sweden's critical care experience can tell us. It is this: there never was any realistic alternative strategy that Ireland could have pursued.

Our healthcare system simply could not have coped with the more relaxed approach taken by Sweden. This graph showing the number of people treated in intensive care in Ireland and in Sweden shows why.



There are two striking observations about the graph. The first is that the underlying level of Covid-19 disease in Sweden, as evidenced by the numbers in intensive care, is running very significantly above the levels of disease in Ireland and has been doing so since the start.

In fact, the level of disease in Sweden is three times higher than in Ireland if the ICU occupancy rates are any guide. If anything, the gap between both countries appears to be widening, as Ireland continues to strangle the spread of the virus by retaining the lockdown while Sweden pursues its more relaxed approach.

The second striking observation is that while the number of confirmed Covid-19 cases in intensive care in Ireland was down to 72 by 10 May, on a like-for-like basis the number for Sweden was 233. That is more than three times the level of disease in Ireland.

This is a huge gap. It suggests that if Ireland had followed the Swedish more relaxed approach to social distancing, we would have required at least another 161 beds in intensive care for confirmed Covid-19 patients alone. 

Add to that the additional beds required for three times as many "presumed or suspected" Covid-19 cases - which have always been a significant and constant feature in intensive care. The number of extra beds required for Covid-19 patients would then be above 200 by now.

We just do not have that capacity in intensive care. Notwithstanding the issue about where in the country those vacant beds might have been required, by 10 May we could accommodate, at a push, about 150 additional patients in fully-staffed ICU beds nationwide.



Before this crisis began, Ireland only had about 225 intensive care beds nationally. By 10 May, including non-Covid-19 patients, there were 257 people receiving critical care in Irish hospitals. That means even with the lockdown, if the HSE had not scrambled to expand critical care capacity, hospitals in Ireland would have been in serious trouble by now with medics having to make torturous decisions about who to allow into critical care units and who to turn away.

Our health system could not have coped. Fortunately, that did not happen because of the extra critical care capacity that was put in place.

But what if our National Public Health Emergency Team had advised the Government to follow the Swedes? What if the level of Covid-19 illness was more than three times as high in Ireland as it is now? Because that is precisely what the Swedish intensive care numbers tell us would have happened.

It would have been a disaster. It would have put Ireland right up there with Italy and Spain, in terms of the horrific scenes and experiences that we would have had to endure and witness. The European Centre for Disease Control highlighted that Ireland started into the crisis with the lowest number of intensive care beds per capita in Europe.

Our healthcare system was simply never strong enough to endure the journey that the Swedes embarked on. It just could not have coped and it is hard to imagine how Irish society would have coped.

In an interview with the Financial Times last Friday, Sweden's state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell, who masterminded Sweden's no-lockdown approach, claimed his country will have an advantage over other countries in the autumn. That is when he expects a second wave of coronavirus to hit.

Mr Tegnell says that a very high proportion of Sweden's population, particularly in Stockholm, will have had the virus by then and so have developed some form of immunity. That will bring Sweden closer to so-called herd immunity, which is quite a horrible term when you consider we are talking about real people and the sickness, anguish, fear and grief many have to suffer to achieve such immunity.

Here, however, Chief Medical Officer Dr Holohan makes it very clear at his press briefings that Ireland is not going to go for herd immunity. He also makes no bones about the fact that he is going to be very cautious and conservative (his words) when it comes to easing social restrictions - the polar opposite of his Swedish counterpart.

All the signs suggest that there is likely to be nothing coming from the Covid-19 numbers in Sweden that will cause him to change his mind.

Sweden Ireland details

1. The numbers in the graph for Ireland come from the HSE's Covid-19 Daily Operations Update of Acute Hospitals. The numbers for Sweden are published daily on the Swedish Intensive Care Registry. But since Sweden has twice the population that Ireland has, 10 million people versus 5m here, the Swedish ICU daily total has been divided in two so that the graph shows the numbers receiving critical care for Covid-19 per 5m people in both countries.

2. Crude official figures show that Sweden, with double the population of Ireland, has 2.2 times the number of Covid-19 deaths, suggesting at first glance that Ireland and Sweden might be neck and neck in the international coronavirus league tables.

3. Sweden has been doing very poorly when it comes to Covid-19 in nursing homes, something that Anders Tegnell says he deeply regrets. Care home deaths in Sweden are not included in the official numbers but are in Ireland, where they account for about 60% of all Covid-19 deaths.

4. Sweden's numbers don't include "presumed or suspected" Covid-19 cases either. They are included in Ireland.

5. The level of admission to intensive care is a key international comparator for the underlying level of disease, accounting for about 2.4% of all diagnosed cases according to the European Centre for Disease Control.

6. In Sweden, most primary and secondary schools are still open. So too are restaurants, cafes and shops. Gatherings have to be greater than 50 people before they are banned. It is left to people themselves to voluntarily engage in social distancing, while working from home is a choice that is encouraged rather than enforced.

7. Google's weekly Covid-19 Community Mobility Report which uses big data gathered from mobile phone locations shows a 73% drop in activity in the retail and recreation sector in Ireland compared to a 9% drop in Sweden. Footfall in grocery and pharmacy sector is down 15% in Ireland, but up by 14% in Sweden. The use of public parks is down 27% in Ireland, but up a massive 44% in Sweden.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on May 12, 2020, 10:28:56 AM
That's a really interesting article mcdanger
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 12, 2020, 11:12:56 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 11, 2020, 08:57:07 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 11, 2020, 03:04:49 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 11, 2020, 02:25:07 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 11, 2020, 02:08:14 PM
Am I right in saying your against cross border policies, bodies etc?

No. This has a time pressure that normal cross-border politics doesn't. Burning hours for no progress is begrudgingly accepted in politics.


Days spent fukking around with neanderthals and their caveman politics before being able to change measures as far as Coronavirus is concerned can make a big difference when every hour counts.

It doesn't take much time to give the NI a separate update before going public, We're the only other "Country" with a land border. Unless we're a complete irrelevance of course.

To what end?

All it would do would be play to the egos of those in Stormont.

They aren't going to find out significantly earlier than the general public.
They aren't going to make any decisions based on that new information as they cannot agree on the colour of shite as it is.
They aren't going to have any valuable input into the ROI government's decision making process.

As long as Stormont blindly trot out the London line, they are an irrelevance. He's right to utterly ignore them.

So that NI can shape some of their decisions based on what is been implemented in the South. They might decide not to use the information, or decide they have a better plan or decide we are going to follow the UK regardless. It doesn't matter. The ROI should still be trying to encourage a all Ireland approach. I don't think they should be treating NI as an irrelevance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 12, 2020, 11:15:43 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 12, 2020, 11:12:56 AM
So that NI can shape some of their decisions based on what is been implemented in the South. They might decide not to use the information, or decide they have a better plan or decide we are going to follow the UK regardless. It doesn't matter. The ROI should still be trying to encourage a all Ireland approach. I don't think they should be treating NI as an irrelevance.

Nothing is stopping them from doing that.

They just aren't getting a 30 minute advanced warning.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 12, 2020, 11:18:46 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 12, 2020, 11:15:43 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 12, 2020, 11:12:56 AM
So that NI can shape some of their decisions based on what is been implemented in the South. They might decide not to use the information, or decide they have a better plan or decide we are going to follow the UK regardless. It doesn't matter. The ROI should still be trying to encourage a all Ireland approach. I don't think they should be treating NI as an irrelevance.

Nothing is stopping them from doing that.

They just aren't getting a 30 minute advanced warning.
Why not 24 hours before or 48 if it's possible. Give NI the opportunity to align and go together to the media.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 12, 2020, 12:11:08 PM
Hardly surprising, but the NI announcement was a whole pile of nothing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on May 12, 2020, 12:21:20 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 12, 2020, 12:11:08 PM
Hardly surprising, but the NI announcement was a whole pile of nothing.

Yeah they needed to announce some kind of criteria or time scale otherwise it's all a bit meaningless as we've seen basically the same plan from the UK & Ireland.

Although if you're looking at a rough outline of changes every 3 weeks it looks like School's out for summer!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 12, 2020, 12:29:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 12, 2020, 11:18:46 AM
Why not 24 hours before or 48 if it's possible. Give NI the opportunity to align and go together to the media.

Why wait that length of time when that could literally be a life or death decision - and your holding it back for a bunch of imbeciles to play tribal politics?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 12, 2020, 12:51:32 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 12, 2020, 12:29:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 12, 2020, 11:18:46 AM
Why not 24 hours before or 48 if it's possible. Give NI the opportunity to align and go together to the media.

Why wait that length of time when that could literally be a life or death decision - and your holding it back for a bunch of imbeciles to play tribal politics?
You not holding anything back. You think they didn't know the content of what they were releasing 24 hrs before? I don't believe that. It takes time to call a media announcement. Plus they would be advising NI what they were planning to do. Not provide a full written policy document.
Imbeciles or not it wouldn't have taken much effort to do. Unless as I said we're a complete irrelevance. Which is fine, just come out and say that. I'd be disgusted personally at that stance as a Nationalist living in NI but again that would just be my opinion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 12, 2020, 12:56:08 PM
Wuhan to attempt to test its entire population of 11 million in 10 days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: currychip on May 12, 2020, 01:14:04 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 12, 2020, 11:15:43 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 12, 2020, 11:12:56 AM
So that NI can shape some of their decisions based on what is been implemented in the South. They might decide not to use the information, or decide they have a better plan or decide we are going to follow the UK regardless. It doesn't matter. The ROI should still be trying to encourage a all Ireland approach. I don't think they should be treating NI as an irrelevance.

Nothing is stopping them from doing that.

They just aren't getting a 30 minute advanced warning.

According to the Belfast Telegraph on Tuesday 5th May Coveney said that they gave the NI Executive a "heads up" the day before the Republic announced details of easing the lock down.  How much detail was given, haven't seen that anywhere.   

Link here https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/dublin-minister-says-important-to-inform-irish-people-over-northern-ireland-executive-on-coronavirus-lockdown-plans-39181994.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 12, 2020, 01:24:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 12, 2020, 12:51:32 PM
You not holding anything back. You think they didn't know the content of what they were releasing 24 hrs before? I don't believe that. It takes time to call a media announcement.

I'd say they did not know all the details 24 hrs before.

I'd also say it takes very little time to call a media announcement right now. Hour or two tops. Sure most media won't actually be in live attendance, they'll be watching a webstream.


Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 12, 2020, 12:51:32 PM
Plus they would be advising NI what they were planning to do. Not provide a full written policy document.

Meh, I see little added value in them devoting anything beyond a phone call (if it suits) to tell them "this is roughly what we are gonna do from tomorrow, make of it what you will".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 12, 2020, 01:25:51 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-five-stage-plan-for-exiting-lockdown-published-in-north-1.4251514?mode=amp
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 12, 2020, 01:55:27 PM
Furlough extended until October in the UK  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 12, 2020, 02:03:09 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 12, 2020, 01:55:27 PM
Furlough extended until October in the UK  :o

"Go to work.... don't go to work" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfrThV6DJu4)


edit: Yeah, it was always going to need a big extension. It'll roll into 2021 too unless there is a big breakthrough.


Germany relaxed a bit and they are seeing a massive uptick in spread. Assuming that is not a statistical quirk they will have to tighten things down again within the next couple of weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 12, 2020, 02:06:48 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 12, 2020, 01:25:51 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-five-stage-plan-for-exiting-lockdown-published-in-north-1.4251514?mode=amp

Reminds me of my coursework at Uni in a way, it's sorta there. But pretty much missing any detail that would get you a half decent mark but enough to tick a box and get that 40% needed and buy time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on May 12, 2020, 02:09:41 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 12, 2020, 12:56:08 PM
Wuhan to attempt to test its entire population of 11 million in 10 days.

Trump won't like that . . .

(https://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2020_20/3345931/200512-trump-corona-mc-949_53ddc970e35fb9eebedd105b550bd35c.fit-760w.JPG)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on May 12, 2020, 03:03:34 PM
You would need to ask Chyna about that. CHYNA.
why dont you ask them and see what they say
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 12, 2020, 03:56:43 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:13:53 PM
You laugh at me because you see scientists and experts and you blindly follow. They know more than you. Deaths were unavoidable. This was out our control. But it's not. The deaths were and should've been avoided. The scientists got it wrong. The experts don't know. Remember the experts who predicted that there'd be a soft landing to housing bubble in 2007. The same banking experts. The smartest minds.
They don't know. They're making it up as they go along. I could study "the science" for 24 hours and I'd be better placed to make decisions on what to do rather than these clowns. They're overpaid failures. People who couldn't cut it in the real business world were failure is punished.

David McWilliams podcast today deals with want I'm trying to say. We put so much weight on people who pass exams and elevate it beyond everything else. They don't know it all. Faced with something crazy like Coronavirus they're trying to put answers on it when they haven't a clue what they're doing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 12, 2020, 04:03:06 PM
Unlike them Scientists Trailer and Karen know it all.
They also know how to end this pandemic...... but they're keeping us in suspense for a while longer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 12, 2020, 04:03:57 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 12, 2020, 04:00:30 PM
What is the "everything else" that we are elevating scientists over?

There's more to intelligence than passing exams. So we elevate exam passers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 12, 2020, 04:05:12 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on May 12, 2020, 03:03:34 PM
You would need to ask Chyna about that. CHYNA.
why dont you ask them and see what they say

I gave Chyna a quick google there. Probably for best you do that on your own.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 12, 2020, 04:13:17 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 12, 2020, 04:06:23 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 12, 2020, 04:03:57 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 12, 2020, 04:00:30 PM
What is the "everything else" that we are elevating scientists over?

There's more to intelligence than passing exams. So we elevate exam passers.
So, who should we be looking to, trusting and following the advice of in a global pandemic?

You're missing my point. We should be able to trust experts. But we put so much weight on people who can sit exams we've filled these positions with those sort of people. Are they the best minds available? Same can be said for economists, financiers and those who hold the levers of power to some extent.
These people we deem intelligent because they can pass the leaving very or A levels are now in charge of our collective fates. And last time I looked they were doing a pretty shit job.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on May 12, 2020, 04:22:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 12, 2020, 04:03:57 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 12, 2020, 04:00:30 PM
What is the "everything else" that we are elevating scientists over?

There's more to intelligence than passing exams. So we elevate exam passers.

I know, everyone down the pub says Micky the bar fly is smart as hell. Let's make him the Chief of Surgery in the hospital.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 12, 2020, 04:30:47 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 12, 2020, 04:22:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 12, 2020, 04:03:57 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 12, 2020, 04:00:30 PM
What is the "everything else" that we are elevating scientists over?

There's more to intelligence than passing exams. So we elevate exam passers.

I know, everyone down the pub says Micky the bar fly is smart as hell. Let's make him the Chief of Surgery in the hospital.

Look if you can't follow what I'm saying that says more about your intelligence than mine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omaghjoe on May 12, 2020, 04:33:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 12, 2020, 04:13:17 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 12, 2020, 04:06:23 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 12, 2020, 04:03:57 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 12, 2020, 04:00:30 PM
What is the "everything else" that we are elevating scientists over?

There's more to intelligence than passing exams. So we elevate exam passers.
So, who should we be looking to, trusting and following the advice of in a global pandemic?

You're missing my point. We should be able to trust experts. But we put so much weight on people who can sit exams we've filled these positions with those sort of people. Are they the best minds available? Same can be said for economists, financiers and those who hold the levers of power to some extent.
These people we deem intelligent because they can pass the leaving very or A levels are now in charge of our collective fates. And last time I looked they were doing a pretty shit job.

Im confused what is you point? That our education system is overly reliant on exams or is it that "experts" dont know anything because they can pass exams? But Never mind the fact that most experts in science would have attained their status by completing a PhD but sure knock herself out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 12, 2020, 04:37:37 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 12, 2020, 04:19:38 PM
I know all that. I'm not listening to those pricks anymore. What do I do now?

follow the advice of gah board experts obviously ???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 12, 2020, 06:27:05 PM
Quick question. Two man operation, boss and employee, lot of work out doors, also a lot of travel in a van. A partition is up in the van between the two, PPE will be provided, currently furlonged. So employee asked to return, I take it they would have to return if all appropriate precautions have been taken?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 12, 2020, 06:31:14 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 12, 2020, 04:19:38 PM
I know all that. I'm not listening to those pricks anymore. What do I do now?

Listen to trailer of course.

Everyone is an idiot and some have less brains than a false face.

Who isn't an idiot apart from you trailer?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on May 12, 2020, 06:43:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 12, 2020, 06:31:14 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 12, 2020, 04:19:38 PM
I know all that. I'm not listening to those pricks anymore. What do I do now?

Listen to trailer of course.

Everyone is an idiot and some have less brains than a false face.

Who isn't an idiot apart from you trailer?

Trailer, can you tell us all what to do next because we're all lost. No more listening to these experts who've studied for 6 or 7 years at university and have 20+ years of experience.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 12, 2020, 06:47:44 PM
What's our measure of intelligence? 600 points in the LC or 3 A's? People who can pass exams are considered smart. We're reliant on this version of smart to make decisions. That's usually fine until something from left field hits. They've got this badly wrong. They don't know. They're making it up as they go along because this doesn't fit with what they read in a book. The scientific models are wrong. They don't know the R value.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 12, 2020, 06:49:06 PM
McWilliams explains it better in fairness
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 12, 2020, 07:06:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 12, 2020, 06:49:06 PM
McWilliams explains it better in fairness

Does McWilliams discuss the R value being wrong. I doubt it.
He does have views on the management of the economy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 12, 2020, 07:35:34 PM
107 new cases in the 26 today but 50 of them in Ros.
I presume they're further results coming through from Kepak and that Nursing home?

I'd better ask Trailer to check it out🙄.

Meanwhile IBEC calling on the Government to borrow Billions (€15bn to stimulate the economy + €25bn further for investment projects).
The irony after 40 years of telling Government to stop spending and keep their noses out of business.
Hopefully mé féin Anglo American Thatcher/Reagan neo liberalism is now consigned to history.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 12, 2020, 10:06:05 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 12, 2020, 03:56:43 PM
David McWilliams podcast today deals with want I'm trying to say. We put so much weight on people who pass exams and elevate it beyond everything else. They don't know it all. Faced with something crazy like Coronavirus they're trying to put answers on it when they haven't a clue what they're doing.

Who wrote the books that you would read for 24 hrs then be a (self-proclaimed) subject matter expert?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 12, 2020, 10:10:21 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 12, 2020, 06:47:44 PMThe scientific models are wrong. They don't know the R value.

course they don't know "the R value".

There is no one single R value.

It varies from area to area and hour to hour. It is highly dependent on unpredictable people doing unpredictable things.

It is impossible to know what it is across a country at any given time... and even if you did - it would not (by definition) be an accurate reflection beyond anything but a very limited scope.


Of course, you already know all this as you've studied the matter extensively and have published numerous journal read a few news papers about it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Downtothewire on May 12, 2020, 11:12:57 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 12, 2020, 10:10:21 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 12, 2020, 06:47:44 PMThe scientific models are wrong. They don't know the R value.

course they don't know "the R value".

There is no one single R value.

It varies from area to area and hour to hour. It is highly dependent on unpredictable people doing unpredictable things.

It is impossible to know what it is across a country at any given time... and even if you did - it would not (by definition) be an accurate reflection beyond anything but a very limited scope.


Of course, you already know all this as you've studied the matter extensively and have published numerous journal read a few news papers about it.

You are probably correct but this is the benchmark that the NI Executive are pinning their relaxation of lockdown on. This figure can be manipulated at any stage by the "medical experts" to suit their own agenda
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on May 12, 2020, 11:45:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 12, 2020, 06:47:44 PM
What's our measure of intelligence? 600 points in the LC or 3 A's? People who can pass exams are considered smart. We're reliant on this version of smart to make decisions. That's usually fine until something from left field hits. They've got this badly wrong. They don't know. They're making it up as they go along because this doesn't fit with what they read in a book. The scientific models are wrong. They don't know the R value.

How do you know what type of people are in these jobs. You think you get to the top of the WHO by just getting 600 points in your leaving cert.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on May 13, 2020, 12:46:51 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on May 12, 2020, 09:16:36 AM
Interesting comparison of figures between Ireland and Sweden

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0511/1137763-what-can-we-learn-from-swedens-covid-19-icu-figures/

It can be very tricky to compare the Covid-19 experiences of different countries. Populations are not evenly distributed in terms of age, location, ethnicity, social class, or culture. Different groups and regions are not equally susceptible to the virus.

Then there is the fact that countries measure the impact of the coronavirus differently. For instance, Ireland is one of only a very small number of European countries that includes both nursing homes and suspected or probable Covid-19 cases in official numbers.

This doesn't stop people making international comparisons though. With so many people straining at the leash to break out of lockdown, many point to the different experience in Sweden with no lockdown. It raises questions about whether Ireland's social, travel, and work restrictions needed to be so tough here after all.

For anyone who asks that question of Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan, he has a very sharp and succinct answer: "Have you seen the intensive care admissions figures for Sweden?"

Well actually, no, not really. We haven't seen those figures. Sweden's ICU caseload is hardly headline news here. Perhaps it should be. Because there is something important that Sweden's critical care experience can tell us. It is this: there never was any realistic alternative strategy that Ireland could have pursued.

Our healthcare system simply could not have coped with the more relaxed approach taken by Sweden. This graph showing the number of people treated in intensive care in Ireland and in Sweden shows why.



There are two striking observations about the graph. The first is that the underlying level of Covid-19 disease in Sweden, as evidenced by the numbers in intensive care, is running very significantly above the levels of disease in Ireland and has been doing so since the start.

In fact, the level of disease in Sweden is three times higher than in Ireland if the ICU occupancy rates are any guide. If anything, the gap between both countries appears to be widening, as Ireland continues to strangle the spread of the virus by retaining the lockdown while Sweden pursues its more relaxed approach.

The second striking observation is that while the number of confirmed Covid-19 cases in intensive care in Ireland was down to 72 by 10 May, on a like-for-like basis the number for Sweden was 233. That is more than three times the level of disease in Ireland.

This is a huge gap. It suggests that if Ireland had followed the Swedish more relaxed approach to social distancing, we would have required at least another 161 beds in intensive care for confirmed Covid-19 patients alone. 

Add to that the additional beds required for three times as many "presumed or suspected" Covid-19 cases - which have always been a significant and constant feature in intensive care. The number of extra beds required for Covid-19 patients would then be above 200 by now.

We just do not have that capacity in intensive care. Notwithstanding the issue about where in the country those vacant beds might have been required, by 10 May we could accommodate, at a push, about 150 additional patients in fully-staffed ICU beds nationwide.



Before this crisis began, Ireland only had about 225 intensive care beds nationally. By 10 May, including non-Covid-19 patients, there were 257 people receiving critical care in Irish hospitals. That means even with the lockdown, if the HSE had not scrambled to expand critical care capacity, hospitals in Ireland would have been in serious trouble by now with medics having to make torturous decisions about who to allow into critical care units and who to turn away.

Our health system could not have coped. Fortunately, that did not happen because of the extra critical care capacity that was put in place.

But what if our National Public Health Emergency Team had advised the Government to follow the Swedes? What if the level of Covid-19 illness was more than three times as high in Ireland as it is now? Because that is precisely what the Swedish intensive care numbers tell us would have happened.

It would have been a disaster. It would have put Ireland right up there with Italy and Spain, in terms of the horrific scenes and experiences that we would have had to endure and witness. The European Centre for Disease Control highlighted that Ireland started into the crisis with the lowest number of intensive care beds per capita in Europe.

Our healthcare system was simply never strong enough to endure the journey that the Swedes embarked on. It just could not have coped and it is hard to imagine how Irish society would have coped.

In an interview with the Financial Times last Friday, Sweden's state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell, who masterminded Sweden's no-lockdown approach, claimed his country will have an advantage over other countries in the autumn. That is when he expects a second wave of coronavirus to hit.

Mr Tegnell says that a very high proportion of Sweden's population, particularly in Stockholm, will have had the virus by then and so have developed some form of immunity. That will bring Sweden closer to so-called herd immunity, which is quite a horrible term when you consider we are talking about real people and the sickness, anguish, fear and grief many have to suffer to achieve such immunity.

Here, however, Chief Medical Officer Dr Holohan makes it very clear at his press briefings that Ireland is not going to go for herd immunity. He also makes no bones about the fact that he is going to be very cautious and conservative (his words) when it comes to easing social restrictions - the polar opposite of his Swedish counterpart.

All the signs suggest that there is likely to be nothing coming from the Covid-19 numbers in Sweden that will cause him to change his mind.

Sweden Ireland details

1. The numbers in the graph for Ireland come from the HSE's Covid-19 Daily Operations Update of Acute Hospitals. The numbers for Sweden are published daily on the Swedish Intensive Care Registry. But since Sweden has twice the population that Ireland has, 10 million people versus 5m here, the Swedish ICU daily total has been divided in two so that the graph shows the numbers receiving critical care for Covid-19 per 5m people in both countries.

2. Crude official figures show that Sweden, with double the population of Ireland, has 2.2 times the number of Covid-19 deaths, suggesting at first glance that Ireland and Sweden might be neck and neck in the international coronavirus league tables.

3. Sweden has been doing very poorly when it comes to Covid-19 in nursing homes, something that Anders Tegnell says he deeply regrets. Care home deaths in Sweden are not included in the official numbers but are in Ireland, where they account for about 60% of all Covid-19 deaths.

4. Sweden's numbers don't include "presumed or suspected" Covid-19 cases either. They are included in Ireland.

5. The level of admission to intensive care is a key international comparator for the underlying level of disease, accounting for about 2.4% of all diagnosed cases according to the European Centre for Disease Control.

6. In Sweden, most primary and secondary schools are still open. So too are restaurants, cafes and shops. Gatherings have to be greater than 50 people before they are banned. It is left to people themselves to voluntarily engage in social distancing, while working from home is a choice that is encouraged rather than enforced.

7. Google's weekly Covid-19 Community Mobility Report which uses big data gathered from mobile phone locations shows a 73% drop in activity in the retail and recreation sector in Ireland compared to a 9% drop in Sweden. Footfall in grocery and pharmacy sector is down 15% in Ireland, but up by 14% in Sweden. The use of public parks is down 27% in Ireland, but up a massive 44% in Sweden.
So much energy in the article  to downplay Ireland's shocking performance at protecting the elder citizens despite the lock down policy. It's as laughable as the UK's persistent efforts not to include around  10,000 deaths  onto their official death rate which would put it a country mile ahead of the rest.
The death rate between Ireland and Sweden is similar. Contrary to the info in the article, nursing home deaths in Sweden are added on to the official stats every week.
One big difference imo between the two is Ireland didn't have a scooby doo re the protection of the most vulnerable elder citizens in nursing homes and still haven't come to grips with testing and same day results.  Sweden from the very beginning proclaimed that protection of the elderly was their priority, they were fully aware of the needs of that priority. They not only failed miserably with implementing a protection policy which naturally exacerbated contagion, but also there's plenty of evidence that morphine instead of oxygen was/is being officially  prescribed as standard policy, as a form of euthanasia, denying selected intensive care patients a decent chance of survival. So definitely in my opinion, a deliberate official policy to sacrifice the elderly, vastly outweighs  the ignorance and inefficiency of Irish government's response.

At least it's being regarded as a scandal in Sweden and has led to much debate about the negative aspects of privatisation of nursing homes and has resulted in Eur250m immediate funding for nursing homes.
On another aspect, Sweden has separate hospitals for covid patients, so nobody has a fear of attending general hospitals to have a medical concern being attended to.  All  appointed medical procedures have been carried out as per schedule, there is no backlog, at least no more than their usual.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on May 13, 2020, 08:20:10 AM
Quote from: Main Street on May 13, 2020, 12:46:51 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on May 12, 2020, 09:16:36 AM
Interesting comparison of figures between Ireland and Sweden

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0511/1137763-what-can-we-learn-from-swedens-covid-19-icu-figures/

It can be very tricky to compare the Covid-19 experiences of different countries. Populations are not evenly distributed in terms of age, location, ethnicity, social class, or culture. Different groups and regions are not equally susceptible to the virus.

Then there is the fact that countries measure the impact of the coronavirus differently. For instance, Ireland is one of only a very small number of European countries that includes both nursing homes and suspected or probable Covid-19 cases in official numbers.

This doesn't stop people making international comparisons though. With so many people straining at the leash to break out of lockdown, many point to the different experience in Sweden with no lockdown. It raises questions about whether Ireland’s social, travel, and work restrictions needed to be so tough here after all.

For anyone who asks that question of Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan, he has a very sharp and succinct answer: "Have you seen the intensive care admissions figures for Sweden?"

Well actually, no, not really. We haven’t seen those figures. Sweden’s ICU caseload is hardly headline news here. Perhaps it should be. Because there is something important that Sweden’s critical care experience can tell us. It is this: there never was any realistic alternative strategy that Ireland could have pursued.

Our healthcare system simply could not have coped with the more relaxed approach taken by Sweden. This graph showing the number of people treated in intensive care in Ireland and in Sweden shows why.



There are two striking observations about the graph. The first is that the underlying level of Covid-19 disease in Sweden, as evidenced by the numbers in intensive care, is running very significantly above the levels of disease in Ireland and has been doing so since the start.

In fact, the level of disease in Sweden is three times higher than in Ireland if the ICU occupancy rates are any guide. If anything, the gap between both countries appears to be widening, as Ireland continues to strangle the spread of the virus by retaining the lockdown while Sweden pursues its more relaxed approach.

The second striking observation is that while the number of confirmed Covid-19 cases in intensive care in Ireland was down to 72 by 10 May, on a like-for-like basis the number for Sweden was 233. That is more than three times the level of disease in Ireland.

This is a huge gap. It suggests that if Ireland had followed the Swedish more relaxed approach to social distancing, we would have required at least another 161 beds in intensive care for confirmed Covid-19 patients alone. 

Add to that the additional beds required for three times as many "presumed or suspected" Covid-19 cases - which have always been a significant and constant feature in intensive care. The number of extra beds required for Covid-19 patients would then be above 200 by now.

We just do not have that capacity in intensive care. Notwithstanding the issue about where in the country those vacant beds might have been required, by 10 May we could accommodate, at a push, about 150 additional patients in fully-staffed ICU beds nationwide.



Before this crisis began, Ireland only had about 225 intensive care beds nationally. By 10 May, including non-Covid-19 patients, there were 257 people receiving critical care in Irish hospitals. That means even with the lockdown, if the HSE had not scrambled to expand critical care capacity, hospitals in Ireland would have been in serious trouble by now with medics having to make torturous decisions about who to allow into critical care units and who to turn away.

Our health system could not have coped. Fortunately, that did not happen because of the extra critical care capacity that was put in place.

But what if our National Public Health Emergency Team had advised the Government to follow the Swedes? What if the level of Covid-19 illness was more than three times as high in Ireland as it is now? Because that is precisely what the Swedish intensive care numbers tell us would have happened.

It would have been a disaster. It would have put Ireland right up there with Italy and Spain, in terms of the horrific scenes and experiences that we would have had to endure and witness. The European Centre for Disease Control highlighted that Ireland started into the crisis with the lowest number of intensive care beds per capita in Europe.

Our healthcare system was simply never strong enough to endure the journey that the Swedes embarked on. It just could not have coped and it is hard to imagine how Irish society would have coped.

In an interview with the Financial Times last Friday, Sweden's state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell, who masterminded Sweden's no-lockdown approach, claimed his country will have an advantage over other countries in the autumn. That is when he expects a second wave of coronavirus to hit.

Mr Tegnell says that a very high proportion of Sweden’s population, particularly in Stockholm, will have had the virus by then and so have developed some form of immunity. That will bring Sweden closer to so-called herd immunity, which is quite a horrible term when you consider we are talking about real people and the sickness, anguish, fear and grief many have to suffer to achieve such immunity.

Here, however, Chief Medical Officer Dr Holohan makes it very clear at his press briefings that Ireland is not going to go for herd immunity. He also makes no bones about the fact that he is going to be very cautious and conservative (his words) when it comes to easing social restrictions - the polar opposite of his Swedish counterpart.

All the signs suggest that there is likely to be nothing coming from the Covid-19 numbers in Sweden that will cause him to change his mind.

Sweden Ireland details

1. The numbers in the graph for Ireland come from the HSE’s Covid-19 Daily Operations Update of Acute Hospitals. The numbers for Sweden are published daily on the Swedish Intensive Care Registry. But since Sweden has twice the population that Ireland has, 10 million people versus 5m here, the Swedish ICU daily total has been divided in two so that the graph shows the numbers receiving critical care for Covid-19 per 5m people in both countries.

2. Crude official figures show that Sweden, with double the population of Ireland, has 2.2 times the number of Covid-19 deaths, suggesting at first glance that Ireland and Sweden might be neck and neck in the international coronavirus league tables.

3. Sweden has been doing very poorly when it comes to Covid-19 in nursing homes, something that Anders Tegnell says he deeply regrets. Care home deaths in Sweden are not included in the official numbers but are in Ireland, where they account for about 60% of all Covid-19 deaths.

4. Sweden's numbers don't include "presumed or suspected" Covid-19 cases either. They are included in Ireland.

5. The level of admission to intensive care is a key international comparator for the underlying level of disease, accounting for about 2.4% of all diagnosed cases according to the European Centre for Disease Control.

6. In Sweden, most primary and secondary schools are still open. So too are restaurants, cafes and shops. Gatherings have to be greater than 50 people before they are banned. It is left to people themselves to voluntarily engage in social distancing, while working from home is a choice that is encouraged rather than enforced.

7. Google's weekly Covid-19 Community Mobility Report which uses big data gathered from mobile phone locations shows a 73% drop in activity in the retail and recreation sector in Ireland compared to a 9% drop in Sweden. Footfall in grocery and pharmacy sector is down 15% in Ireland, but up by 14% in Sweden. The use of public parks is down 27% in Ireland, but up a massive 44% in Sweden.
So much energy in the article  to downplay Ireland's shocking performance at protecting the elder citizens despite the lock down policy. It's as laughable as the UK's persistent efforts not to include around  10,000 deaths  onto their official death rate which would put it a country mile ahead of the rest.
The death rate between Ireland and Sweden is similar. Contrary to the info in the article, nursing home deaths in Sweden are added on to the official stats every week.
One big difference imo between the two is Ireland didn't have a scooby doo re the protection of the most vulnerable elder citizens in nursing homes and still haven't come to grips with testing and same day results.  Sweden from the very beginning proclaimed that protection of the elderly was their priority, they were fully aware of the needs of that priority. They not only failed miserably with implementing a protection policy which naturally exacerbated contagion, but also there's plenty of evidence that morphine instead of oxygen was/is being officially  prescribed as standard policy, as a form of euthanasia, denying selected intensive care patients a decent chance of survival. So definitely in my opinion, a deliberate official policy to sacrifice the elderly, vastly outweighs  the ignorance and inefficiency of Irish government's response.

At least it's being regarded as a scandal in Sweden and has led to much debate about the negative aspects of privatisation of nursing homes and has resulted in Eur250m immediate funding for nursing homes.
On another aspect, Sweden has separate hospitals for covid patients, so nobody has a fear of attending general hospitals to have a medical concern being attended to.  All  appointed medical procedures have been carried out as per schedule, there is no backlog, at least no more than their usual.


Have you a link where I can read about this ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on May 13, 2020, 08:31:57 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on May 13, 2020, 08:20:10 AM
Quote from: Main Street on May 13, 2020, 12:46:51 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on May 12, 2020, 09:16:36 AM
Interesting comparison of figures between Ireland and Sweden

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0511/1137763-what-can-we-learn-from-swedens-covid-19-icu-figures/

It can be very tricky to compare the Covid-19 experiences of different countries. Populations are not evenly distributed in terms of age, location, ethnicity, social class, or culture. Different groups and regions are not equally susceptible to the virus.

Then there is the fact that countries measure the impact of the coronavirus differently. For instance, Ireland is one of only a very small number of European countries that includes both nursing homes and suspected or probable Covid-19 cases in official numbers.

This doesn't stop people making international comparisons though. With so many people straining at the leash to break out of lockdown, many point to the different experience in Sweden with no lockdown. It raises questions about whether Ireland's social, travel, and work restrictions needed to be so tough here after all.

For anyone who asks that question of Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan, he has a very sharp and succinct answer: "Have you seen the intensive care admissions figures for Sweden?"

Well actually, no, not really. We haven't seen those figures. Sweden's ICU caseload is hardly headline news here. Perhaps it should be. Because there is something important that Sweden's critical care experience can tell us. It is this: there never was any realistic alternative strategy that Ireland could have pursued.

Our healthcare system simply could not have coped with the more relaxed approach taken by Sweden. This graph showing the number of people treated in intensive care in Ireland and in Sweden shows why.



There are two striking observations about the graph. The first is that the underlying level of Covid-19 disease in Sweden, as evidenced by the numbers in intensive care, is running very significantly above the levels of disease in Ireland and has been doing so since the start.

In fact, the level of disease in Sweden is three times higher than in Ireland if the ICU occupancy rates are any guide. If anything, the gap between both countries appears to be widening, as Ireland continues to strangle the spread of the virus by retaining the lockdown while Sweden pursues its more relaxed approach.

The second striking observation is that while the number of confirmed Covid-19 cases in intensive care in Ireland was down to 72 by 10 May, on a like-for-like basis the number for Sweden was 233. That is more than three times the level of disease in Ireland.

This is a huge gap. It suggests that if Ireland had followed the Swedish more relaxed approach to social distancing, we would have required at least another 161 beds in intensive care for confirmed Covid-19 patients alone. 

Add to that the additional beds required for three times as many "presumed or suspected" Covid-19 cases - which have always been a significant and constant feature in intensive care. The number of extra beds required for Covid-19 patients would then be above 200 by now.

We just do not have that capacity in intensive care. Notwithstanding the issue about where in the country those vacant beds might have been required, by 10 May we could accommodate, at a push, about 150 additional patients in fully-staffed ICU beds nationwide.



Before this crisis began, Ireland only had about 225 intensive care beds nationally. By 10 May, including non-Covid-19 patients, there were 257 people receiving critical care in Irish hospitals. That means even with the lockdown, if the HSE had not scrambled to expand critical care capacity, hospitals in Ireland would have been in serious trouble by now with medics having to make torturous decisions about who to allow into critical care units and who to turn away.

Our health system could not have coped. Fortunately, that did not happen because of the extra critical care capacity that was put in place.

But what if our National Public Health Emergency Team had advised the Government to follow the Swedes? What if the level of Covid-19 illness was more than three times as high in Ireland as it is now? Because that is precisely what the Swedish intensive care numbers tell us would have happened.

It would have been a disaster. It would have put Ireland right up there with Italy and Spain, in terms of the horrific scenes and experiences that we would have had to endure and witness. The European Centre for Disease Control highlighted that Ireland started into the crisis with the lowest number of intensive care beds per capita in Europe.

Our healthcare system was simply never strong enough to endure the journey that the Swedes embarked on. It just could not have coped and it is hard to imagine how Irish society would have coped.

In an interview with the Financial Times last Friday, Sweden's state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell, who masterminded Sweden's no-lockdown approach, claimed his country will have an advantage over other countries in the autumn. That is when he expects a second wave of coronavirus to hit.

Mr Tegnell says that a very high proportion of Sweden's population, particularly in Stockholm, will have had the virus by then and so have developed some form of immunity. That will bring Sweden closer to so-called herd immunity, which is quite a horrible term when you consider we are talking about real people and the sickness, anguish, fear and grief many have to suffer to achieve such immunity.

Here, however, Chief Medical Officer Dr Holohan makes it very clear at his press briefings that Ireland is not going to go for herd immunity. He also makes no bones about the fact that he is going to be very cautious and conservative (his words) when it comes to easing social restrictions - the polar opposite of his Swedish counterpart.

All the signs suggest that there is likely to be nothing coming from the Covid-19 numbers in Sweden that will cause him to change his mind.

Sweden Ireland details

1. The numbers in the graph for Ireland come from the HSE's Covid-19 Daily Operations Update of Acute Hospitals. The numbers for Sweden are published daily on the Swedish Intensive Care Registry. But since Sweden has twice the population that Ireland has, 10 million people versus 5m here, the Swedish ICU daily total has been divided in two so that the graph shows the numbers receiving critical care for Covid-19 per 5m people in both countries.

2. Crude official figures show that Sweden, with double the population of Ireland, has 2.2 times the number of Covid-19 deaths, suggesting at first glance that Ireland and Sweden might be neck and neck in the international coronavirus league tables.

3. Sweden has been doing very poorly when it comes to Covid-19 in nursing homes, something that Anders Tegnell says he deeply regrets. Care home deaths in Sweden are not included in the official numbers but are in Ireland, where they account for about 60% of all Covid-19 deaths.

4. Sweden's numbers don't include "presumed or suspected" Covid-19 cases either. They are included in Ireland.

5. The level of admission to intensive care is a key international comparator for the underlying level of disease, accounting for about 2.4% of all diagnosed cases according to the European Centre for Disease Control.

6. In Sweden, most primary and secondary schools are still open. So too are restaurants, cafes and shops. Gatherings have to be greater than 50 people before they are banned. It is left to people themselves to voluntarily engage in social distancing, while working from home is a choice that is encouraged rather than enforced.

7. Google's weekly Covid-19 Community Mobility Report which uses big data gathered from mobile phone locations shows a 73% drop in activity in the retail and recreation sector in Ireland compared to a 9% drop in Sweden. Footfall in grocery and pharmacy sector is down 15% in Ireland, but up by 14% in Sweden. The use of public parks is down 27% in Ireland, but up a massive 44% in Sweden.
So much energy in the article  to downplay Ireland's shocking performance at protecting the elder citizens despite the lock down policy. It's as laughable as the UK's persistent efforts not to include around  10,000 deaths  onto their official death rate which would put it a country mile ahead of the rest.
The death rate between Ireland and Sweden is similar. Contrary to the info in the article, nursing home deaths in Sweden are added on to the official stats every week.
One big difference imo between the two is Ireland didn't have a scooby doo re the protection of the most vulnerable elder citizens in nursing homes and still haven't come to grips with testing and same day results.  Sweden from the very beginning proclaimed that protection of the elderly was their priority, they were fully aware of the needs of that priority. They not only failed miserably with implementing a protection policy which naturally exacerbated contagion, but also there's plenty of evidence that morphine instead of oxygen was/is being officially  prescribed as standard policy, as a form of euthanasia, denying selected intensive care patients a decent chance of survival. So definitely in my opinion, a deliberate official policy to sacrifice the elderly, vastly outweighs  the ignorance and inefficiency of Irish government's response.

At least it's being regarded as a scandal in Sweden and has led to much debate about the negative aspects of privatisation of nursing homes and has resulted in Eur250m immediate funding for nursing homes.
On another aspect, Sweden has separate hospitals for covid patients, so nobody has a fear of attending general hospitals to have a medical concern being attended to.  All  appointed medical procedures have been carried out as per schedule, there is no backlog, at least no more than their usual.


Have you a link where I can read about this ?
You don't seriously believe the point in bold?

Do you honestly think doctors/nurses would willingly euthanise patients without complaint? If this really was standard treatment in hospitals it would be all over the news and print media. (Using twitter as source really doesn't count given all the crackpots and armchair experts on it at the moment convinced they know it all)

Certainly there are questions to ask about the number of nursing home deaths but it's some stretch to get to accusing medical professionals of deliberately killing patientspatients.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 13, 2020, 09:52:10 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 13, 2020, 08:31:57 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on May 13, 2020, 08:20:10 AM
Quote from: Main Street on May 13, 2020, 12:46:51 AM
So much energy in the article  to downplay Ireland's shocking performance at protecting the elder citizens despite the lock down policy. It's as laughable as the UK's persistent efforts not to include around  10,000 deaths  onto their official death rate which would put it a country mile ahead of the rest.
The death rate between Ireland and Sweden is similar. Contrary to the info in the article, nursing home deaths in Sweden are added on to the official stats every week.
One big difference imo between the two is Ireland didn't have a scooby doo re the protection of the most vulnerable elder citizens in nursing homes and still haven't come to grips with testing and same day results.  Sweden from the very beginning proclaimed that protection of the elderly was their priority, they were fully aware of the needs of that priority. They not only failed miserably with implementing a protection policy which naturally exacerbated contagion, but also there's plenty of evidence that morphine instead of oxygen was/is being officially  prescribed as standard policy, as a form of euthanasia, denying selected intensive care patients a decent chance of survival. So definitely in my opinion, a deliberate official policy to sacrifice the elderly, vastly outweighs  the ignorance and inefficiency of Irish government's response.

At least it's being regarded as a scandal in Sweden and has led to much debate about the negative aspects of privatisation of nursing homes and has resulted in Eur250m immediate funding for nursing homes.
On another aspect, Sweden has separate hospitals for covid patients, so nobody has a fear of attending general hospitals to have a medical concern being attended to.  All  appointed medical procedures have been carried out as per schedule, there is no backlog, at least no more than their usual.


Have you a link where I can read about this ?
You don't seriously believe the point in bold?

Do you honestly think doctors/nurses would willingly euthanise patients without complaint? If this really was standard treatment in hospitals it would be all over the news and print media. (Using twitter as source really doesn't count given all the crackpots and armchair experts on it at the moment convinced they know it all)

Certainly there are questions to ask about the number of nursing home deaths but it's some stretch to get to accusing medical professionals of deliberately killing patientspatients.

... and say nothing about such a policy being forced on them from above.

Given the objections there were to administering the new abortion laws, I would find it virtually impossible to believe there would be no publically aired grievances about the above.

That accusation is simply not credible IMO.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 13, 2020, 09:59:42 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 12, 2020, 10:10:21 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 12, 2020, 06:47:44 PMThe scientific models are wrong. They don't know the R value.

course they don't know "the R value".

There is no one single R value.

It varies from area to area and hour to hour. It is highly dependent on unpredictable people doing unpredictable things.

It is impossible to know what it is across a country at any given time... and even if you did - it would not (by definition) be an accurate reflection beyond anything but a very limited scope.


Of course, you already know all this as you've studied the matter extensively and have published numerous journal read a few news papers about it.

Well why are they talking about using the R value to determine next steps?

I'll leave on these couple of points. Who actually thinks that the UK or Ireland are doing a good job? Especially the UK. Whitty said only 2 days ago that they were supportive of the governments steps and that they were involved in the decisions. "Led by the science"
Do you believe that the WHO got the initial response right? They said travel bans don't work! No human to human transmission! If this broke out today in China, what do you think the governments first steps would be? Close borders and restrict flights. If they didn't there'd be uproar.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2020, 10:21:33 AM
Facebook is full of people complaining about the lockdown measures and looking a full return to work! Will momentum from these media sites and others put more pressure on the government to ease me lockdown?

Also why can you have 120 people in a plane and not in shopping centre?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 10:22:12 AM
So the lead scientist advising the north here has said that the R number is low enough and has been for a few weeks to move onto phase 1 now. He said it. He actually said that yes he would advise that they can move forward now. Below 1 is key and he wants that to stay at that as we move through the phases. Now let's see what happens
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 13, 2020, 10:54:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2020, 10:21:33 AM
Facebook is full of people complaining about the lockdown measures and looking a full return to work! Will momentum from these media sites and others put more pressure on the government to ease me lockdown?

Also why can you have 120 people in a plane and not in shopping centre?

The plane situation beggars belief, but I'm yet to read that any of the passengers disembarked when they saw how full it was at same time.

Eventually public pressure will force the Govt. to ease lockdowns, I'm just waiting for the opportunists to commence....bars being closed to whenever will give rise to illegal raves.....barns....whatever. Only a matter of time. I've heard of hairdressers going about their daily work home to home or whatever the scenario maybe, immoral or necessary (by demand)?

For what it's worth, I think the next 3 or so weeks will see things take a marked turn for the better, I think the Govts. know that when they open things back up, there will be another rise and it will extremely hard to reintroduce measures right now is their 'buffer' they are trying to drag it out as long as they can at this stage.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on May 13, 2020, 11:00:42 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 12, 2020, 06:49:06 PM
McWilliams explains it better in fairness
Why are you putting so much stock in what McWilliams says? Has he not just passed a pile of exams to get where he is at? How do you decide what experts you should listen to and who not to listen to?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on May 13, 2020, 11:15:27 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2020, 10:21:33 AM
Facebook is full of people complaining about the lockdown measures and looking a full return to work! Will momentum from these media sites and others put more pressure on the government to ease me lockdown?

Also why can you have 120 people in a plane and not in shopping centre?

I don't think it will be momentum from media sites I mean the Govt are Tories so this lockdown and Furlough scheme where Government just gives people cash goes against every fibre of their being.

One thing you can be sure of is the lifting of lockdown measures will not be done too slowly!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 13, 2020, 11:18:14 AM
Apparently there actually is some rationale on the plane scenario and the way the air conditioning works("laminar airflow" apparently). Some airlines have promised to leave middle aisle seats free. Obviously Michael O'Leary hasn't lol.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 13, 2020, 11:18:49 AM
Quote from: screenexile on May 13, 2020, 11:15:27 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2020, 10:21:33 AM
Facebook is full of people complaining about the lockdown measures and looking a full return to work! Will momentum from these media sites and others put more pressure on the government to ease me lockdown?

Also why can you have 120 people in a plane and not in shopping centre?

I don't think it will be momentum from media sites I mean the Govt are Tories so this lockdown and Furlough scheme where Government just gives people cash goes against every fibre of their being.

One thing you can be sure of is the lifting of lockdown measures will not be done too slowly!!!

Also social media said Trump would never get in and Brexit would never happen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 13, 2020, 11:45:58 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 13, 2020, 09:59:42 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 12, 2020, 10:10:21 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 12, 2020, 06:47:44 PMThe scientific models are wrong. They don't know the R value.

course they don't know "the R value".

There is no one single R value.

It varies from area to area and hour to hour. It is highly dependent on unpredictable people doing unpredictable things.

It is impossible to know what it is across a country at any given time... and even if you did - it would not (by definition) be an accurate reflection beyond anything but a very limited scope.


Of course, you already know all this as you've studied the matter extensively and have published numerous journal read a few news papers about it.

Well why are they talking about using the R value to determine next steps?

That is an averaged R0 value as determined from a given time period. It cannot be modelled, but can only be evaluated retrospectively. [The effects of different R0 values can be modelled, but they are approximate at best.]

It'll also need much more testing - including sample sets of people that are not symptomatic to gauge R0 values.


Quote from: trailer on May 13, 2020, 09:59:42 AM
I'll leave on these couple of points. Who actually thinks that the UK or Ireland are doing a good job? Especially the UK. Whitty said only 2 days ago that they were supportive of the governments steps and that they were involved in the decisions. "Led by the science"

UK has done an appalling job. ROI aren't quite as bad, but aren't far behind - their inaction regarding air travel in Feb & March were particularly poor - and the mistakes regarding the care homes are obvious to all.

Quote from: trailer on May 13, 2020, 09:59:42 AM
Do you believe that the WHO got the initial response right? They said travel bans don't work! No human to human transmission! If this broke out today in China, what do you think the governments first steps would be? Close borders and restrict flights. If they didn't there'd be uproar.

Nope. The WHO's reluctance to recommend closing down travel is scandalous IMO. The idea that stopping travel doesn't stop the spread of a virus is utterly ludicrous and laced with obvious political considerations.

No-one across the world has got it 100% right. Some places have got much more wrong than right.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 13, 2020, 11:54:36 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 13, 2020, 11:18:14 AM
Apparently there actually is some rationale on the plane scenario and the way the air conditioning works("laminar airflow" apparently). Some airlines have promised to leave middle aisle seats free. Obviously Michael O'Leary hasn't lol.

Ahh, well, I know where they are coming from, but I'm not convinced.

The air in a cabin is constantly being recycled, 50% fresh air and the other 50% passing through HEPA filters - which should catch the virus. The overall volume within the cabin will either be refreshed or filtered ~20 times per hour.

But, there will be pockets that are not refreshed. Also, the dry cabin makes you more susceptible to getting infections. It also doesn't stop you touching a surface (i.e. seat headrest) a carrier has sneezed on when your embarking/debarking and picking it up that way.

I certainly wouldn't be keen to get on a plane right now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 13, 2020, 11:55:59 AM
I wouldn't go near one but it's not quite the same as sitting in a crammed office.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 13, 2020, 11:58:33 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 13, 2020, 11:55:59 AM
I wouldn't go near one but it's not quite the same as sitting in a crammed office.

A crammed office is definitely worse than an aircraft, but both are "pick your poison" to me.

The Chinese did an investigation to a transmission in a restaurant - and it can be carried as fine droplets on air currents - be they from the door opening or from air-con.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 13, 2020, 12:06:55 PM
i read a very interesting article the other day which detailed the spread in a particular office. It was a call centre with 82 people on the one floor and 24 got it. 23 sat on one side of the office and 1 on the other. It actually had the desk layouts etc as well.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 13, 2020, 12:08:41 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 13, 2020, 12:06:55 PM
i read a very interesting article the other day which detailed the spread in a particular office. It was a call centre with 82 people on the one floor and 24 got it. 23 sat on one side of the office and 1 on the other. It actually had the desk layouts etc as well.

Yes, that's right - read that too! [and then forgot about it]

Just highlights how far off going back into a crammed office setting we all are.

You could start the week with 100 cases in hospital across NI (and who knows how many asymptotic outside) and then 2 weeks later easily have 1,000 people needing hospital treatment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 13, 2020, 12:14:33 PM
Yeah we are tenatively talking about reopening the office in september again but only allowing a certain number of people to go in per day. I would say even that is optimistic.

Remote working just has to be facilitated where it can be for a long time yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2020, 12:26:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 13, 2020, 12:14:33 PM
Yeah we are tenatively talking about reopening the office in september again but only allowing a certain number of people to go in per day. I would say even that is optimistic.

Remote working just has to be facilitated where it can be for a long time yet.

September? Christ.

Was out walking the dogs this morning, bumped into two of my clients, elderly 75+, talking about when are we opening up and how can they go to a shop, accept a receipt from a person behind a till but can't be seen in a dentist/opticians/podiatrist and so on?

Those places and ours have always followed strict health and safety measures before this but seem way down the list of places that are going back to work!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 13, 2020, 12:47:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2020, 07:35:34 PM
Meanwhile IBEC calling on the Government to borrow Billions (€15bn to stimulate the economy + €25bn further for investment projects).
The irony after 40 years of telling Government to stop spending and keep their noses out of business.
Hopefully mé féin Anglo American Thatcher/Reagan neo liberalism is now consigned to history.

IBEC has nothing to do with Anglo American Thatcher/Reagan neo liberalism, mé féin or otherwise. It is mainly funded by the banks, ESB, RTE, VHI, Eir etc. Those guys have been living their lifetimes off subsidies. An Irish Thatcher or Reagan would cut through them like butter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 12:48:55 PM
Jesus lads you are all getting carried away here
All the talk 5 weeks ago was we are going to come under severe pressure in the NHS and hundreds of deaths a day. It has not happened and won't happen
The big talk about people comin back from Cheltenham to the North was catastrophic but it just has not happened. The virus is not a deadly as many are making it out to be. Places around here are open this 3/4 weeks and no spike. Takeaways Building Merchants Walkers.
Some of you need to catch a grip.
It's as if people on here don't want to get back to normal
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 13, 2020, 12:59:32 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 12:48:55 PM
Jesus lads you are all getting carried away here
All the talk 5 weeks ago was we are going to come under severe pressure in the NHS and hundreds of deaths a day. It has not happened and won't happen
The big talk about people comin back from Cheltenham to the North was catastrophic but it just has not happened. The virus is not a deadly as many are making it out to be. Places around here are open this 3/4 weeks and no spike. Takeaways Building Merchants Walkers.
Some of you need to catch a grip.
It's as if people on here don't want to get back to normal

There is an element of that on the board, I'll give you that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on May 13, 2020, 01:01:39 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 12:48:55 PM
Jesus lads you are all getting carried away here
All the talk 5 weeks ago was we are going to come under severe pressure in the NHS and hundreds of deaths a day. It has not happened and won't happen
The big talk about people comin back from Cheltenham to the North was catastrophic but it just has not happened. The virus is not a deadly as many are making it out to be. Places around here are open this 3/4 weeks and no spike. Takeaways Building Merchants Walkers.
Some of you need to catch a grip.
It's as if people on here don't want to get back to normal

Good post. Yeah there was some amount of doomsday scenarios re Cheltenham.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 13, 2020, 01:14:48 PM
Quote from: five points on May 13, 2020, 12:47:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2020, 07:35:34 PM
Meanwhile IBEC calling on the Government to borrow Billions (€15bn to stimulate the economy + €25bn further for investment projects).
The irony after 40 years of telling Government to stop spending and keep their noses out of business.
Hopefully mé féin Anglo American Thatcher/Reagan neo liberalism is now consigned to history.

IBEC has nothing to do with Anglo American Thatcher/Reagan neo liberalism, mé féin or otherwise. It is mainly funded by the banks, ESB, RTE, VHI, Eir etc. Those guys have been living their lifetimes off subsidies. An Irish Thatcher or Reagan would cut through them like butter.

?????
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 13, 2020, 01:15:56 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 12:48:55 PM
All the talk 5 weeks ago was we are going to come under severe pressure in the NHS and hundreds of deaths a day. It has not happened and won't happen

... and the lack of deaths a day had nothing to do with closing down the entire economy.

Fukkin brains here all right.  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 13, 2020, 01:16:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 13, 2020, 01:14:48 PM
Quote from: five points on May 13, 2020, 12:47:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2020, 07:35:34 PM
Meanwhile IBEC calling on the Government to borrow Billions (€15bn to stimulate the economy + €25bn further for investment projects).
The irony after 40 years of telling Government to stop spending and keep their noses out of business.
Hopefully mé féin Anglo American Thatcher/Reagan neo liberalism is now consigned to history.

IBEC has nothing to do with Anglo American Thatcher/Reagan neo liberalism, mé féin or otherwise. It is mainly funded by the banks, ESB, RTE, VHI, Eir etc. Those guys have been living their lifetimes off subsidies. An Irish Thatcher or Reagan would cut through them like butter.

?????
Who do you think funds it? Granted, this is from 2008 but I haven't heard of any major changes in the meantime. https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/1m-a-year-in-public-money-props-up-ibec-26476643.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 13, 2020, 01:17:43 PM
Quote from: clarshack on May 13, 2020, 01:01:39 PM
Good post. Yeah there was some amount of doomsday scenarios re Cheltenham.

Given a few have come back from Cheltenham and got the virus - almost surely meaning they got it there - we don't know if that has led directly or indirectly to deaths or not. Probably has.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 01:23:35 PM
Why would you think it probably has? But sure the outcry here about the people travelling to Cheltenham and it was going to be catastrophic has not happened. Can you at least admit to that. Yes lockdown has certainly slowed down the spread but again by how much? Outcry yesterday about Germany's r rate at 1.3 and now it's down to 0.8 not a word of it. Scaremongering all round
This Coronavirus is here to stay so we need to learn how to live with it
3700 extra home abuse claims in 3 weeks in the uk
The cure will be as bad as the virus
Scotland moving forward and opening up things quicker than they said Surgeon just confirmed. After all her bluster over the weekend
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2020, 01:40:38 PM
As a quick poll/survey who on here doesn't want back to work?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on May 13, 2020, 01:44:46 PM
Quote from: five points on May 13, 2020, 01:16:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 13, 2020, 01:14:48 PM
Quote from: five points on May 13, 2020, 12:47:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2020, 07:35:34 PM
Meanwhile IBEC calling on the Government to borrow Billions (€15bn to stimulate the economy + €25bn further for investment projects).
The irony after 40 years of telling Government to stop spending and keep their noses out of business.
Hopefully mé féin Anglo American Thatcher/Reagan neo liberalism is now consigned to history.

IBEC has nothing to do with Anglo American Thatcher/Reagan neo liberalism, mé féin or otherwise. It is mainly funded by the banks, ESB, RTE, VHI, Eir etc. Those guys have been living their lifetimes off subsidies. An Irish Thatcher or Reagan would cut through them like butter.

?????
Who do you think funds it? Granted, this is from 2008 but I haven't heard of any major changes in the meantime. https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/1m-a-year-in-public-money-props-up-ibec-26476643.html

A deliberately misleading article by Shane Ross! He presumably had the full facts but chose only to tell those that could skew an article the way he wanted it.

True, €1m of IBEC's subscriptions are paid by bodies like ESB, Dublin Airport, RTE, etc. But there's no mention of how that compared to total subscriptions received.

I know that IBEC's total income is €24.9m for 2018. But giving the reader the full facts so they could make an informed decision was not part of the "journalist's" remit when writing that article. 

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 13, 2020, 01:47:07 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 01:23:35 PM
Why would you think it probably has?

Because it probably has.  ???

How many dead across the UK now?

We know of a few here in NI that went to Cheltenham and either got it there or somehow got it afterwards. The numbers from here attending were quite low in comparison to English. Its extremely likely that a higher amount of Englishmen/women were affected and therefore either fell ill themselves or passed it on to someone who subsequently fell ill.


Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 01:23:35 PM
But sure the outcry here about the people travelling to Cheltenham and it was going to be catastrophic has not happened. Can you at least admit to that.

Yep - Cheltenham didn't cause the dire explosion of cases that would result in localised overwhelming of healthcare that I feared.

Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 01:23:35 PMYes lockdown has certainly slowed down the spread but again by how much?

Seriously?

Try comparing to somewhere densely populated that didn't lockdown till too late. Say New York or Lombardy in Italy.


Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 01:23:35 PMOutcry yesterday about Germany's r rate at 1.3 and now it's down to 0.8 not a word of it. Scaremongering all round

Its at 0.94 and there is plenty of word about it.

I talked about the unreliability of a snapshot of R0 in the other thread. It needs several days to start to present a clear picture - and even then its never as accurate as anyone would like...

Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 01:23:35 PM
This Coronavirus is here to stay so we need to learn how to live with it

Learning to live with it does not involve sacrificing swathes of the population.


Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 01:23:35 PM3700 extra home abuse claims in 3 weeks in the uk
The cure will be as bad as the virus

No. It won't.

Not to belittle abuse, but 3,700 abuse claims in 3 weeks is not as bad as 30,000 dead in those same three weeks. You can recover from abuse. Harder to recover from death.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 13, 2020, 01:48:07 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 12:48:55 PM
Jesus lads you are all getting carried away here
All the talk 5 weeks ago was we are going to come under severe pressure in the NHS and hundreds of deaths a day. It has not happened and won't happen
The big talk about people comin back from Cheltenham to the North was catastrophic but it just has not happened. The virus is not a deadly as many are making it out to be. Places around here are open this 3/4 weeks and no spike. Takeaways Building Merchants Walkers.
Some of you need to catch a grip.
It's as if people on here don't want to get back to normal
That normal is likely dead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 13, 2020, 01:55:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2020, 01:40:38 PM
As a quick poll/survey who on here doesn't want back to work?

I'd go back in a heartbeat but do I want to back to an office with 9 other people and share bogs, breakout area, canteens with another 200 plus people just yet, then that's a no.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 13, 2020, 02:03:12 PM
Smurfy have you a link to the scotland stuff - I can't see that anywhere?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on May 13, 2020, 02:15:37 PM
For me personally, I am happy to go back to work because as the days go on I am starting to fear more for our economic future than the health risks we face currently. Boris can't continue to pay my mortgage indefinitley. Just my fatalistic opinion, but each to their own.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 13, 2020, 02:20:28 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 13, 2020, 01:17:43 PM
Quote from: clarshack on May 13, 2020, 01:01:39 PM
Good post. Yeah there was some amount of doomsday scenarios re Cheltenham.

Given a few have come back from Cheltenham and got the virus - almost surely meaning they got it there - we don't know if that has led directly or indirectly to deaths or not. Probably has.

In fairness, I would imagine the GAA pulling the plug on everything / St Paddys day cancelled was a bigger beneficial factor to Ireland than those coming back from Cheltenham but I reckon in years to come the English will come to regret letting it go ahead. Someone will get hung out to dry there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on May 13, 2020, 02:22:11 PM
I would LOVE to go back to the office.  With the exception of the lift, I am fairly sure I could keep myself safe enough. 

Re: Cheltenham, a colleague in our Birmingham office told me of the annual pilgrimage undertaken by the lads in the office - they went ahead this year.  70 of them went, and 40 of them ended up with symptoms severe enough to be tested (and tested positive). 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 13, 2020, 02:28:08 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 13, 2020, 02:20:28 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 13, 2020, 01:17:43 PM
Quote from: clarshack on May 13, 2020, 01:01:39 PM
Good post. Yeah there was some amount of doomsday scenarios re Cheltenham.

Given a few have come back from Cheltenham and got the virus - almost surely meaning they got it there - we don't know if that has led directly or indirectly to deaths or not. Probably has.

In fairness, I would imagine the GAA pulling the plug on everything / St Paddys day cancelled was a bigger beneficial factor to Ireland than those coming back from Cheltenham but I reckon in years to come the English will come to regret letting it go ahead. Someone will get hung out to dry there.

The tube was ferrying the guts of 5 million passengers around London on each day of the festival. Including several thousand people embarking at Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted and City, before taking a flight to Ireland.

I'm not supporting or ignoring Cheltenham here. It shouldn't have happened. But people really need to gain some perspective about it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 02:30:06 PM
Some very valid points I will say that
Tommy Surgeon said it in her parliament about an hour ago
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 13, 2020, 02:30:25 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 13, 2020, 02:20:28 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 13, 2020, 01:17:43 PM
Quote from: clarshack on May 13, 2020, 01:01:39 PM
Good post. Yeah there was some amount of doomsday scenarios re Cheltenham.

Given a few have come back from Cheltenham and got the virus - almost surely meaning they got it there - we don't know if that has led directly or indirectly to deaths or not. Probably has.

In fairness, I would imagine the GAA pulling the plug on everything / St Paddys day cancelled was a bigger beneficial factor to Ireland than those coming back from Cheltenham but I reckon in years to come the English will come to regret letting it go ahead. Someone will get hung out to dry there.

I still think flybe shutting down up here has probably had a significant impact on the spread of this virus. 25% less flights per day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 13, 2020, 02:33:21 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 02:30:06 PM
Some very valid points I will say that
Tommy Surgeon said it in her parliament about an hour ago

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52646588 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52646588)

I don't see anything in there(23 minutes ago) to suggest "Scotland moving forward and opening up things quicker than they said"?

"However she said that "for now the message remains the same", and that continuing to stick with the lockdown was "bringing forward the time that these restrictions can start to be eased"."

Is the above the bit you mean?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 13, 2020, 02:42:08 PM
Who's "Tommy Surgeon" ;D
Re IBEC those semi States paying them fees are Employers who no doubt have IBEC reps assisting them in Trade disputes, pay negotiations etc.
Ross was certainly putting the Irish "Indo" slant on it alright.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 13, 2020, 02:49:12 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 13, 2020, 02:30:25 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 13, 2020, 02:20:28 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 13, 2020, 01:17:43 PM
Quote from: clarshack on May 13, 2020, 01:01:39 PM
Good post. Yeah there was some amount of doomsday scenarios re Cheltenham.

Given a few have come back from Cheltenham and got the virus - almost surely meaning they got it there - we don't know if that has led directly or indirectly to deaths or not. Probably has.

In fairness, I would imagine the GAA pulling the plug on everything / St Paddys day cancelled was a bigger beneficial factor to Ireland than those coming back from Cheltenham but I reckon in years to come the English will come to regret letting it go ahead. Someone will get hung out to dry there.

I still think flybe shutting down up here has probably had a significant impact on the spread of this virus. 25% less flights per day.

Hard to argue with your point - or indeed anyone who's first instinct was to simply pull the plug on the airports. I just didn't and do not see it happening in the future. It should be that simple, but it isn't.

Why not? I appreciate freedom of movement argument, that's exactly why I said it wouldn't happen back at the start of this, but are we in danger of becoming a controlled state by adding something like this in effect to protect national interests going forward to our laws? It's an interesting debate to have.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 13, 2020, 02:51:22 PM
It's very different in this country. You could arguably get the 26 counties to do it but you'd never get unionists to allow it up north. The only way round that were the south to want to go that far would be to make every effort to close the border.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: naka on May 13, 2020, 02:52:58 PM
Quote from: Last Man on May 13, 2020, 02:15:37 PM
For me personally, I am happy to go back to work because as the days go on I am starting to fear more for our economic future than the health risks we face currently. Boris can't continue to pay my mortgage indefinitley. Just my fatalistic opinion, but each to their own.
I would go back in a heart beat  and I sm in my 50s because the longer it goes on the reality is that there mightn't be anything to go back to, one of my competitors has already notified all staff under 1 year that they are being laid off as soon as August and the contribution from employers comes into effect.
If we are all sensible and business is sensible then it is doable.
People mightn't appreciate it but furlough at 80% is somewhat counter productive given the extended period of good weather ,  as I have 3/4 mates happy to sit it out .
post furlough everyone will be paying for this ( vat increase , income tax, pensions, and cuts across the board)
Interesting figures today
Out of all deaths in North being 449
only 21 were under 60 which is 4.6%
132 60-79
296 over 80.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 03:22:01 PM
Tommy that would be it
Naka agree that we may have nothing to go back too. It's ok lying about the house getting 80% and all that but reality will kick in a few months time
The GAA closing down first saved the day here make no mistake about that!
The government hadn't a clue what to do and still don't. The first ministers said they will take the lead from the science and the head of science in the north said this morning the r rate is low and has been for a number of weeks so he would advise that they can take steps to start phase 1. But no watch them dither about and talk crap to get themselves another few weeks. The economy here is gone for 5/6 years and we are in for a deep recession which we will pay for big time.
Our great grandchildren may feel the affects of this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 13, 2020, 03:54:00 PM
QuoteScotland moving forward and opening up things quicker than they said Surgeon just confirmed. After all her bluster over the weekend

That's not what was said at all...

Quotecontinuing to stick with the lockdown was "bringing forward the time that these restrictions can start to be eased

continuing to stick with lockdown...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 04:01:10 PM
Tommy she said that's why we can move things on quicker. I watched it. Stop quoting articles and watch the thing will you. It's like quoting a paper. I'm not about point scoring tommy I state facts ok.
If you want a pat on the back ok. Well done
Grow up tommy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 13, 2020, 04:07:02 PM
Catch yourself on Smurfy. I tried to read about scotland easing lockdown . I actually have a vested interest in that with family and wanted to know details and they didn't seem to exist anywhere. The details on that article are not the same as what you said.

If you are correct then I apologise but you haven't exactly covered yourself with glory in this thread so I wouldn't have thought it would be unreasonable to question you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 04:16:20 PM
Tommy it's all about opinions and to say I haven't covered myself in glory is just wrong
I could say that about everyone that wants to use the furlong money as an excuse and stay off work until October
Jobs will be gone by then
300000 people passed through the London Underground last Friday
2 deaths today in the north
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 05:21:54 PM
Agree Hardstation that one wasn't thought through enough. Why would you want to go back until furlough run out. A nice wee 3/4 months off
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 13, 2020, 05:53:36 PM
https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2020-05-13/flyers-advertising-belfast-mass-gatherings-reckless/

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 13, 2020, 06:16:35 PM
We are told by Leo that Kids may be allowed back to school in a few weeks. But there was no way we could hold a leaving cert?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 07:00:29 PM
I'll give it to Leo and the lads they seem to have got a massive grip on things
Deaths and cases going down everyday
Also occupied ICU beds went from 170 two weeks ago to 60 today. That's a massive drop and that stat probably more than anything tells us they have finally got to grips with how to deal with it
Great work and it gives you a boost hearin that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on May 13, 2020, 07:01:27 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 13, 2020, 04:50:23 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 04:16:20 PM
I could say that about everyone that wants to use the furlong money as an excuse and stay off work until October
Give them an inch, they'll take a mile.

1/8 anyway
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2020, 08:12:57 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 13, 2020, 05:21:54 PM
Agree Hardstation that one wasn't thought through enough. Why would you want to go back until furlough run out. A nice wee 3/4 months off

Who is doing this though?

I don't know of any of my colleagues who wants to sit in the house, and we are being paid btw, handsomely for it. I'd rather be in work as would the nearly 200 staff we have, well maybe one git would but ya have that in most jobs.

As someone or plenty have said, we'll all be paying for it later on when we go back, that's the retirement age going up a year! Recession for another 5 years (I can't remember when there wasn't one!) and then we've brexit to contend with!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on May 13, 2020, 10:10:50 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/69c75de6-9c6b-4bca-b110-2a55296b0875

It will be four or five years before Covid-19 is under control, the World Health Organization's chief scientist predicted on Wednesday, in a bleak assessment of the difficulties that lie ahead. Many factors will determine how long and to what extent the virus remains a threat, including whether it mutates, what containment measures are put in place and whether an effective vaccine is developed, Soumya Swaminathan told the FT's Global Boardroom digital conference. "I would say in a four to five-year timeframe we could be looking at controlling this," she said, adding there was "no crystal ball" and the pandemic could "potentially get worse". A vaccine "seems for now the best way out", but there were "lots of ifs and buts" about its efficacy and safety, as well as its production and equitable distribution, she said. A vaccine could also stop working if the virus changed, she added. Peter Piot, professor of global health at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine who was also speaking on the FT panel, agreed that control of the virus depended on the development of an effective vaccine, but said the "elimination" of the disease "is going to require much much more". "Only smallpox has been eliminated and eradicated as a human disease," said Prof Piot, who is himself recovering from the virus. Countries should be thinking in terms of years not months, he said: "We will have to find a way as societies to live with this" and change from lockdowns to more "granular, targeted types of interventions". Dr Swaminathan said weighing up the risks and benefits of easing restrictions, and figuring out how to reach a "new normal", was the biggest challenge facing policymakers
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 13, 2020, 11:37:30 PM
Articles like that piss me right off, scaremongering shite. We live with controlled viruses & diseases on a daily basis, eradication is not a prerequisite to return to normal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 14, 2020, 12:13:56 AM
some who have been on the covid payment, got part time work driving/cleaning/stocking etc, they wont go back to work until it runs out and will make the most of this while it lasts to prepare for the obvious downturn coming after
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 14, 2020, 12:14:34 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 13, 2020, 11:37:30 PM
Articles like that piss me right off, scaremongering shite. We live with controlled viruses & diseases on a daily basis, eradication is not a prerequisite to return to normal.

I give up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 14, 2020, 01:19:04 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 13, 2020, 11:37:30 PM
Articles like that piss me right off, scaremongering shite. We live with controlled viruses & diseases on a daily basis, eradication is not a prerequisite to return to normal.

We don't need eradication, but we do need something
Flu has vaccines which are at least partly effective, colds are a nuisance they do not kill you, you can't get Aids on the bus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 14, 2020, 06:33:55 AM
Folks getting a vaccine is a big big if. Unless we can do what hasn't been don't before and get a vaccine for a Coronavirus it's here to stay. 100 years later we still haven't found a vaccine for the Spanish flu. SARS no vaccine. The WHO now saying we just got to deal with it
So what now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 14, 2020, 08:57:25 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 14, 2020, 12:13:56 AM
some who have been on the covid payment, got part time work driving/cleaning/stocking etc, they wont go back to work until it runs out and will make the most of this while it lasts to prepare for the obvious downturn coming after

It's the employer to applies for it, so if the employer decides to leave the scheme and can introduce safe work practices then you've no choice to go back to work.

Being reliant on public transport would be an issue though!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 14, 2020, 08:59:42 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 13, 2020, 11:37:30 PM
Articles like that piss me right off, scaremongering shite. We live with controlled viruses & diseases on a daily basis, eradication is not a prerequisite to return to normal.
I think the WHO may have to double check with Karen before following this advice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 14, 2020, 09:08:13 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 14, 2020, 01:19:04 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 13, 2020, 11:37:30 PM
Articles like that piss me right off, scaremongering shite. We live with controlled viruses & diseases on a daily basis, eradication is not a prerequisite to return to normal.

We don't need eradication, but we do need something
Flu has vaccines which are at least partly effective, colds are a nuisance they do not kill you, you can't get Aids on the bus.
I know and assumed that implication was obvious from my post. Does anybody really think we'll be in this same situation in 5 years? If there's not something in final stage development/production by the Autumn  with all the resources being thrown at it worldwide I'll be surprised,  maybe not a full vaccine but something.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 14, 2020, 09:26:51 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 14, 2020, 12:13:56 AM
some who have been on the covid payment, got part time work driving/cleaning/stocking etc, they wont go back to work until it runs out and will make the most of this while it lasts to prepare for the obvious downturn coming after

If they've taken part time work does that not exclude them from furloughed payment ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 14, 2020, 09:34:04 AM
Who is actually going to take the vaccine at the start? I'm certainly not against vaccines and everyone in my house have been vaccinated for the usual stuff growing up, I'd be wary of being rushed in for a vaccine in the next year or so until I'm positive* of its success.

Anyone concerned about this particular vaccine should it come?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 14, 2020, 09:34:34 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 14, 2020, 09:26:51 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 14, 2020, 12:13:56 AM
some who have been on the covid payment, got part time work driving/cleaning/stocking etc, they wont go back to work until it runs out and will make the most of this while it lasts to prepare for the obvious downturn coming after

If they've taken part time work does that not exclude them from furloughed payment ?

Nearly sure I read that you cannot perform any paid work for your employer if furloughed (only training) but you can seek employment elsewehere if your current work contract allows (possibly to make up the missing 20%).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 14, 2020, 09:35:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 14, 2020, 09:34:04 AM
Who is actually going to take the vaccine at the start? I'm certainly not against vaccines and everyone in my house have been vaccinated for the usual stuff growing up, I'd be wary of being rushed in for a vaccine in the next year or so until I'm positive* of its success.

Anyone concerned about this particular vaccine should it come?

You'd imagine it would be vulnerable people getting first call and go from there. Not everyone takes vaccines either. My da won't get the flu one and he's 80+.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 14, 2020, 09:40:20 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 14, 2020, 09:35:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 14, 2020, 09:34:04 AM
Who is actually going to take the vaccine at the start? I'm certainly not against vaccines and everyone in my house have been vaccinated for the usual stuff growing up, I'd be wary of being rushed in for a vaccine in the next year or so until I'm positive* of its success.

Anyone concerned about this particular vaccine should it come?

You'd imagine it would be vulnerable people getting first call and go from there. Not everyone takes vaccines either. My da won't get the flu one and he's 80+.

I think most people would be naturally cautious about taking it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 14, 2020, 09:40:43 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 14, 2020, 09:34:34 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 14, 2020, 09:26:51 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 14, 2020, 12:13:56 AM
some who have been on the covid payment, got part time work driving/cleaning/stocking etc, they wont go back to work until it runs out and will make the most of this while it lasts to prepare for the obvious downturn coming after

If they've taken part time work does that not exclude them from furloughed payment ?

Nearly sure I read that you cannot perform any paid work for your employer if furloughed (only training) but you can seek employment elsewehere if your current work contract allows (possibly to make up the missing 20%).

So if you were paid £400 per week you are looking for a part time job to pay you £80??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 14, 2020, 09:42:06 AM
Dunno. I would have thought if you were in a precarious enough position from flu / corona virus or whatever you'd be inclined to take a vaccine but have never been in that position.

it really is hard to imagine a vaccine being made available to every single member of the popuation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 14, 2020, 09:47:52 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 14, 2020, 09:42:06 AM
Dunno. I would have thought if you were in a precarious enough position from flu / corona virus or whatever you'd be inclined to take a vaccine but have never been in that position.

it really is hard to imagine a vaccine being made available to every single member of the popuation.

Nearly 8 billion people! Whoever finds this will retire very shortly
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on May 14, 2020, 10:04:21 AM
Now we know how some people know so much.

https://www.facebook.com/spoofeduk/videos/1860219294111215/ (https://www.facebook.com/spoofeduk/videos/1860219294111215/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 14, 2020, 10:13:18 AM
Gotta love the Brits pulling their comparison charts of per country death tolls once they started to get to the second spot behind the US.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 14, 2020, 10:45:29 AM
i noticed that boy Stamer(who I know nothing about but die hard labour people seem to hate) wrote a letter to Boris about his inaccurate information with regard to the nursing homes. I would love to see someone write a letter per lie and then next election bring out all the letters with all the lies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 14, 2020, 10:48:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 14, 2020, 10:45:29 AM
i noticed that boy Stamer(who I know nothing about but die hard labour people seem to hate) wrote a letter to Boris about his inaccurate information with regard to the nursing homes. I would love to see someone write a letter per lie and then next election bring out all the letters with all the lies.

He'd want a team of letter writers to keep up with the lies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 14, 2020, 10:50:39 AM
It'd be worth it though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 14, 2020, 10:58:39 AM
Sir Keir Starmer wouldn't look out of place as a soap opera lothario character. Hard to take him serious as leader of the Labour Party but did well putting it to Boris yesterday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on May 14, 2020, 11:00:38 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 14, 2020, 10:58:39 AM
Sir Keir Starmer wouldn't look out of place as a soap opera lothario character. Hard to take him serious as leader of the Labour Party but did well putting it to Boris yesterday.

I would take him a lot more seriously than his predecessor
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 14, 2020, 11:01:44 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 14, 2020, 10:45:29 AM
i noticed that boy Stamer(who I know nothing about but die hard labour people seem to hate) wrote a letter to Boris about his inaccurate information with regard to the nursing homes. I would love to see someone write a letter per lie and then next election bring out all the letters with all the lies.

Starmer is more to the Blairite side of Labour by the looks of it and this pisses off the Corbynites/Momentum crowd by the sound of it.

He comes across as far more competent but was allegedly the brains behind the Labour Brexit strategy of putting the negotiated deal back to the electorate which didn't go down well in the Labour heartlands.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 14, 2020, 11:13:21 AM
It's a very split party which could really do with deciding if it is actually a socialist party or not. Yeah he is more likely to be tory lite but anything has to be better than the current incumbents.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 14, 2020, 11:23:03 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 14, 2020, 11:13:21 AM
It's a very split party which could really do with deciding if it is actually a socialist party or not. Yeah he is more likely to be tory lite but anything has to be better than the current incumbents.

I think I've mentioned it before on this thread, but recent elections have proven yet again that English people seem to have an innate distrust of real socialism, to the point that the Tories could have electioneered without a single broadcast, poster or interview, and with Roland Rat as their PM candidate, and the voters still would have picked them ahead of a party led by a proper lefty like Corbyn.


Labour's simple choice as a party is to embrace this knowledge and eventually regain power under the guise of Tory-lite, or to ignore it, and ultimately implode as a viable opposition party.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 14, 2020, 11:30:14 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 14, 2020, 11:23:03 AM
I think I've mentioned it before on this thread, but recent elections have proven yet again that English people seem to have an innate distrust of real socialism, to the point that the Tories could have electioneered without a single broadcast, poster or interview, and with Roland Rat as their PM candidate, and the voters still would have picked them ahead of a party led by a proper lefty like Corbyn.

Arguably, by putting Boris et all in front of cameras - they did worse than electioneer without a single broadcast, poster or interview... and still got a landslide victory.


Quote from: thewobbler on May 14, 2020, 11:23:03 AM
Labour's simple choice as a party is to embrace this knowledge and eventually regain power under the guise of Tory-lite, or to ignore it, and ultimately implode as a viable opposition party.

Is the aim of a political party to represent the politics that are important to it, or to seek power for power's sake?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 14, 2020, 11:40:10 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 14, 2020, 11:30:14 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 14, 2020, 11:23:03 AM
I think I've mentioned it before on this thread, but recent elections have proven yet again that English people seem to have an innate distrust of real socialism, to the point that the Tories could have electioneered without a single broadcast, poster or interview, and with Roland Rat as their PM candidate, and the voters still would have picked them ahead of a party led by a proper lefty like Corbyn.

Arguably, by putting Boris et all in front of cameras - they did worse than electioneer without a single broadcast, poster or interview... and still got a landslide victory.


Quote from: thewobbler on May 14, 2020, 11:23:03 AM
Labour's simple choice as a party is to embrace this knowledge and eventually regain power under the guise of Tory-lite, or to ignore it, and ultimately implode as a viable opposition party.

Is the aim of a political party to represent the politics that are important to it, or to seek power for power's sake?


It's an awkward question to answer. Ostensibly the party should be centred upon firm political beliefs and policies.

But if the will of a country is not socialist, then a socialist party shouldn't really be considered the opposition party. They're really just making up the numbers, like the Green Party.


So to rephrase. The challenge to Labour is whether they are ready to accept that as a party, they are more likely to  convert the English electorate's thinking towards socialism through small steps, than big steps... which will necessitate being "Tory lite" for at least one term. And if not, then can they accept that in the medium terms, they are not a viable opposition party?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on May 14, 2020, 11:45:10 AM
The breakthrough with the anti-body tests overnight seems to be significant.  At least the scientists will be able to ascertain whether having the virus provides immunity against further infection.  I presume the hope that comes from this is that if this can be proven then a treatment or a vaccine moves much closer.  Is that the case or am I reading too much into this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 14, 2020, 11:51:07 AM
Quote from: mackers on May 14, 2020, 11:45:10 AM
The breakthrough with the anti-body tests overnight seems to be significant.  At least the scientists will be able to ascertain whether having the virus provides immunity against further infection.  I presume the hope that comes from this is that if this can be proven then a treatment or a vaccine moves much closer.  Is that the case or am I reading too much into this?

Its the hope that kills! Any optimism I read about always gets pissed all over the next day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 14, 2020, 11:51:58 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 14, 2020, 11:51:07 AM
Quote from: mackers on May 14, 2020, 11:45:10 AM
The breakthrough with the anti-body tests overnight seems to be significant.  At least the scientists will be able to ascertain whether having the virus provides immunity against further infection.  I presume the hope that comes from this is that if this can be proven then a treatment or a vaccine moves much closer.  Is that the case or am I reading too much into this?

Its the hope that kills! Any optimism I read about always gets pissed all over the next day.

Optimism doesn't sell, get likes or raise your profile.

Unfortunately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 11:52:35 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 14, 2020, 11:40:10 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 14, 2020, 11:30:14 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 14, 2020, 11:23:03 AM
I think I've mentioned it before on this thread, but recent elections have proven yet again that English people seem to have an innate distrust of real socialism, to the point that the Tories could have electioneered without a single broadcast, poster or interview, and with Roland Rat as their PM candidate, and the voters still would have picked them ahead of a party led by a proper lefty like Corbyn.

Arguably, by putting Boris et all in front of cameras - they did worse than electioneer without a single broadcast, poster or interview... and still got a landslide victory.


Quote from: thewobbler on May 14, 2020, 11:23:03 AM
Labour's simple choice as a party is to embrace this knowledge and eventually regain power under the guise of Tory-lite, or to ignore it, and ultimately implode as a viable opposition party.

Is the aim of a political party to represent the politics that are important to it, or to seek power for power's sake?


It's an awkward question to answer. Ostensibly the party should be centred upon firm political beliefs and policies.

But if the will of a country is not socialist, then a socialist party shouldn't really be considered the opposition party. They're really just making up the numbers, like the Green Party.


So to rephrase. The challenge to Labour is whether they are ready to accept that as a party, they are more likely to  convert the English electorate's thinking towards socialism through small steps, than big steps... which will necessitate being "Tory lite" for at least one term. And if not, then can they accept that in the medium terms, they are not a viable opposition party?

Stamer - 56.3%
Long Bailey - 27.6%

It looks like they've accepted it. The idealist wing had their shot with Corbyn. They'll get another go in about a generation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 14, 2020, 11:55:01 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 14, 2020, 11:51:07 AM
Quote from: mackers on May 14, 2020, 11:45:10 AM
The breakthrough with the anti-body tests overnight seems to be significant.  At least the scientists will be able to ascertain whether having the virus provides immunity against further infection.  I presume the hope that comes from this is that if this can be proven then a treatment or a vaccine moves much closer.  Is that the case or am I reading too much into this?

Its the hope that kills! Any optimism I read about always gets pissed all over the next day.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/14/is-the-coronavirus-antibody-test-approved-by-public-health-england-a-game-changer

Q&A re the new antibody test.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 12:00:14 PM
Studies in Spain and France the last couple of days suggesting only around 5% of the population have been exposed to the virus. Further waves seem inevitable if the bulk of the population is still fertile ground for infection. These new antibody tests by Roche will first be put to work clarifying this picture.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: glens73 on May 14, 2020, 12:29:20 PM
The coronavirus slayer! How Kerala's rock star health minister helped save it from Covid-19

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/14/the-coronavirus-slayer-how-keralas-rock-star-health-minister-helped-save-it-from-covid-19 (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/14/the-coronavirus-slayer-how-keralas-rock-star-health-minister-helped-save-it-from-covid-19)

Puts the West to shame
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on May 14, 2020, 12:52:09 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 12:00:14 PM
Studies in Spain and France the last couple of days suggesting only around 5% of the population have been exposed to the virus. Further waves seem inevitable if the bulk of the population is still fertile ground for infection. These new antibody tests by Roche will first be put to work clarifying this picture.

I haven't studied a science book for 24hrs, and know less than Karen has forgotten, but how is the bit in bold even possible? 5%?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 14, 2020, 01:08:44 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 14, 2020, 12:52:09 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 12:00:14 PM
Studies in Spain and France the last couple of days suggesting only around 5% of the population have been exposed to the virus. Further waves seem inevitable if the bulk of the population is still fertile ground for infection. These new antibody tests by Roche will first be put to work clarifying this picture.

I haven't studied a science book for 24hrs, and know less than Karen has forgotten, but how is the bit in bold even possible? 5%?

It's a best guess probably. Based on a model. In reality they haven't a clue how many are or have been infected. They simply can't without a proper testing regime.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 01:19:27 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 14, 2020, 12:52:09 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 12:00:14 PM
Studies in Spain and France the last couple of days suggesting only around 5% of the population have been exposed to the virus. Further waves seem inevitable if the bulk of the population is still fertile ground for infection. These new antibody tests by Roche will first be put to work clarifying this picture.

I haven't studied a science book for 24hrs, and know less than Karen has forgotten, but how is the bit in bold even possible? 5%?

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/05/12/science.abc3517?rss=1

Should take less than 24hrs to read. They're modelling using the data that's available, so of course it won't be a completely accurate picture. Studies using the reliable antibody tests should be able to paint a more accurate picture.

This seems like bigger news than Roche's antibody test, though. If these findings are even close to reality then multiple subsequent waves of infections are inevitable. And further lockdowns are inevitable. And further massive death tallies are inevitable. There's a notion at large that we're coming through the other side of this thing, when a lot of the evidence suggests that we're only staggering back to the corner after round 1.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 14, 2020, 01:52:52 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 01:19:27 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 14, 2020, 12:52:09 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 12:00:14 PM
Studies in Spain and France the last couple of days suggesting only around 5% of the population have been exposed to the virus. Further waves seem inevitable if the bulk of the population is still fertile ground for infection. These new antibody tests by Roche will first be put to work clarifying this picture.

I haven't studied a science book for 24hrs, and know less than Karen has forgotten, but how is the bit in bold even possible? 5%?

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/05/12/science.abc3517?rss=1

Should take less than 24hrs to read. They're modelling using the data that's available, so of course it won't be a completely accurate picture. Studies using the reliable antibody tests should be able to paint a more accurate picture.

This seems like bigger news than Roche's antibody test, though. If these findings are even close to reality then multiple subsequent waves of infections are inevitable. And further lockdowns are inevitable. And further massive death tallies are inevitable. There's a notion at large that we're coming through the other side of this thing, when a lot of the evidence suggests that we're only staggering back to the corner after round 1.

Nothing is inevitable if the arsehole scientists and medical advisers would actually try and look to learn from successful nations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 14, 2020, 02:07:35 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 12:00:14 PM
Studies in Spain and France the last couple of days suggesting only around 5% of the population have been exposed to the virus. Further waves seem inevitable if the bulk of the population is still fertile ground for infection. These new antibody tests by Roche will first be put to work clarifying this picture.

And 1% died in Spain on these figures. Now the proportion of health care staff infected is probably a bit higher than the population, but herd immunity was always bollix.

This virus has not gone away, despite some who seem to think it should go away because it is inconvenient.
The way forward is to attend to the detail, never a popular thing to explain to chattering classes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on May 14, 2020, 02:31:58 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 01:19:27 PM
If these findings are even close to reality then multiple subsequent waves of infections are inevitable. And further lockdowns are inevitable. And further massive death tallies are inevitable. There's a notion at large that we're coming through the other side of this thing, when a lot of the evidence suggests that we're only staggering back to the corner after round 1.
Inevitable ....really? What do you base this throw away line on? I'm not for one second saying that it definitely won't happen but this sort of nonsense messes with my head! It seems as if people take pleasure in pronouncing doomsday scenarios.  Go easy.......we have a thread on this message board dealing with mental health.  This sort of stuff floating about the internet is not without implications you know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 14, 2020, 02:49:37 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 01:19:27 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 14, 2020, 12:52:09 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 12:00:14 PM
Studies in Spain and France the last couple of days suggesting only around 5% of the population have been exposed to the virus. Further waves seem inevitable if the bulk of the population is still fertile ground for infection. These new antibody tests by Roche will first be put to work clarifying this picture.

I haven't studied a science book for 24hrs, and know less than Karen has forgotten, but how is the bit in bold even possible? 5%?

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/05/12/science.abc3517?rss=1

Should take less than 24hrs to read. They're modelling using the data that's available, so of course it won't be a completely accurate picture. Studies using the reliable antibody tests should be able to paint a more accurate picture.

This seems like bigger news than Roche's antibody test, though. If these findings are even close to reality then multiple subsequent waves of infections are inevitable. And further lockdowns are inevitable. And further massive death tallies are inevitable. There's a notion at large that we're coming through the other side of this thing, when a lot of the evidence suggests that we're only staggering back to the corner after round 1.

One of the UK science/medical bods predicted a similar figure for the UK in terms of who's already had CV-19 and considering that they were initially looking for at least 60% of the population to contract it for herd immunity to take hold (which is being questioned by other science/medical bods) then getting away with 60K deaths in the first wave is a Boris like success alright.

now that they can tell whose got the antibodies, I suppose the next set of tests is to see if people with the antibodies are now immune from another bout.

Cross fingers that they are, but with only 5% having it already we will definitely get more than one wave of this thing!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 14, 2020, 03:38:31 PM
Quote from: mackers on May 14, 2020, 02:31:58 PM
Inevitable ....really? What do you base this throw away line on? I'm not for one second saying that it definitely won't happen but this sort of nonsense messes with my head! It seems as if people take pleasure in pronouncing doomsday scenarios.  Go easy.......we have a thread on this message board dealing with mental health.  This sort of stuff floating about the internet is not without implications you know.

These scenarios are not inevitable but will result unless action is taken to prevent them. So the solution is to take these actions, the problem is the loonies on social media who use the success of measures as a reason not to have measures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 04:01:56 PM
Quote from: mackers on May 14, 2020, 02:31:58 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 01:19:27 PM
If these findings are even close to reality then multiple subsequent waves of infections are inevitable. And further lockdowns are inevitable. And further massive death tallies are inevitable. There's a notion at large that we're coming through the other side of this thing, when a lot of the evidence suggests that we're only staggering back to the corner after round 1.
Inevitable ....really? What do you base this throw away line on? I'm not for one second saying that it definitely won't happen but this sort of nonsense messes with my head! It seems as if people take pleasure in pronouncing doomsday scenarios.  Go easy.......we have a thread on this message board dealing with mental health.  This sort of stuff floating about the internet is not without implications you know.

Firstly, I'll spare you the life story, but you'll have to trust me when I say that I take no pleasure from a vision of the world where this virus exists.

Secondly, if negative information about this, or any other issue, causes you anxiety then the solution is to avoid the discussion. Unfortunately, there is very little reason for real positivity while the virus remains rampant across the planet. The development of the reliable antibody test is a positive news story, though.

Lastly, the inevitability of further infections, lockdowns, and deaths is a logical conclusion from the findings of these studies. c. 95% of the population remains an open goal once the thing is allowed to spread again. And spread it will as societies open up, just as it spread before they closed down.

It's important that information like this gets out to the public and is understood. This is the only way that there will be compliance with necessary future measures. As stated previously, the mood out there seems to be that the worst has passed and everything is on the up. But more people need to understand that this is a long haul effort, dispiriting as that may be.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 14, 2020, 04:27:54 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 04:01:56 PM
Quote from: mackers on May 14, 2020, 02:31:58 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 01:19:27 PM
If these findings are even close to reality then multiple subsequent waves of infections are inevitable. And further lockdowns are inevitable. And further massive death tallies are inevitable. There's a notion at large that we're coming through the other side of this thing, when a lot of the evidence suggests that we're only staggering back to the corner after round 1.
Inevitable ....really? What do you base this throw away line on? I'm not for one second saying that it definitely won't happen but this sort of nonsense messes with my head! It seems as if people take pleasure in pronouncing doomsday scenarios.  Go easy.......we have a thread on this message board dealing with mental health.  This sort of stuff floating about the internet is not without implications you know.

Firstly, I'll spare you the life story, but you'll have to trust me when I say that I take no pleasure from a vision of the world where this virus exists.

Secondly, if negative information about this, or any other issue, causes you anxiety then the solution is to avoid the discussion. Unfortunately, there is very little reason for real positivity while the virus remains rampant across the planet. The development of the reliable antibody test is a positive news story, though.

Lastly, the inevitability of further infections, lockdowns, and deaths is a logical conclusion from the findings of these studies. c. 95% of the population remains an open goal once the thing is allowed to spread again. And spread it will as societies open up, just as it spread before they closed down.

It's important that information like this gets out to the public and is understood. This is the only way that there will be compliance with necessary future measures. As stated previously, the mood out there seems to be that the worst has passed and everything is on the up. But more people need to understand that this is a long haul effort, dispiriting as that may be.

Have you a link to these studies?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 04:33:04 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 14, 2020, 04:27:54 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 04:01:56 PM
Quote from: mackers on May 14, 2020, 02:31:58 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 01:19:27 PM
If these findings are even close to reality then multiple subsequent waves of infections are inevitable. And further lockdowns are inevitable. And further massive death tallies are inevitable. There's a notion at large that we're coming through the other side of this thing, when a lot of the evidence suggests that we're only staggering back to the corner after round 1.
Inevitable ....really? What do you base this throw away line on? I'm not for one second saying that it definitely won't happen but this sort of nonsense messes with my head! It seems as if people take pleasure in pronouncing doomsday scenarios.  Go easy.......we have a thread on this message board dealing with mental health.  This sort of stuff floating about the internet is not without implications you know.

Firstly, I'll spare you the life story, but you'll have to trust me when I say that I take no pleasure from a vision of the world where this virus exists.

Secondly, if negative information about this, or any other issue, causes you anxiety then the solution is to avoid the discussion. Unfortunately, there is very little reason for real positivity while the virus remains rampant across the planet. The development of the reliable antibody test is a positive news story, though.

Lastly, the inevitability of further infections, lockdowns, and deaths is a logical conclusion from the findings of these studies. c. 95% of the population remains an open goal once the thing is allowed to spread again. And spread it will as societies open up, just as it spread before they closed down.

It's important that information like this gets out to the public and is understood. This is the only way that there will be compliance with necessary future measures. As stated previously, the mood out there seems to be that the worst has passed and everything is on the up. But more people need to understand that this is a long haul effort, dispiriting as that may be.

Have you a link to these studies?

See above.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 14, 2020, 04:35:02 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 14, 2020, 04:27:54 PM
Have you a link to these studies?

He posted one in post #5051.

Hopefully the govt get off their hole, order the tests*, and then start doing sampling. Then we might start to get an idea of just where we sit.

Then with that info, can start to establish whether it gives immunity and/or prevents passing it on.

Assuming anti-bodies does mean immunity and does mean you can't pass it on - then, they need to figure out whether its possible to build an immune carer buffer between the vulnerable and the less vulnerable - which would mean lockdown could be eased (not lifted) for many individuals <40 years old. Those over, say, 70 (or with health conditions) could cocoon, with all interactions limited to carers already with antibodies and therefore incapable of passing it on. So carers and would be carers would be tested as a matter of urgency.


*bickering over the price at the moment I believe. If the information led to a partial reopening of the economy even one day earlier, then even hundreds of millions paid above the price they might have negotiated down to would be extremely cheap. Penny wise, pound foolish.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 14, 2020, 04:42:58 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 14, 2020, 04:35:02 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 14, 2020, 04:27:54 PM
Have you a link to these studies?

He posted one in post #5051.

Hopefully the govt get off their hole, order the tests*, and then start doing sampling


*bickering over the price at the moment I believe. If the information led to a partial reopening of the economy even one day earlier, then even hundreds of millions paid above the price they might have negotiated down to would be extremely cheap. Penny wise, pound foolish.

If the government had a state run centre for testing vaccines and the rest required to combat such things then it wouldn't have to worry about paying for it!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on May 14, 2020, 04:44:52 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 04:01:56 PM
Firstly, I'll spare you the life story, but you'll have to trust me when I say that I take no pleasure from a vision of the world where this virus exists.

Secondly, if negative information about this, or any other issue, causes you anxiety then the solution is to avoid the discussion. Unfortunately, there is very little reason for real positivity while the virus remains rampant across the planet. The development of the reliable antibody test is a positive news story, though.

Lastly, the inevitability of further infections, lockdowns, and deaths is a logical conclusion from the findings of these studies. c. 95% of the population remains an open goal once the thing is allowed to spread again. And spread it will as societies open up, just as it spread before they closed down.

It's important that information like this gets out to the public and is understood. This is the only way that there will be compliance with necessary future measures. As stated previously, the mood out there seems to be that the worst has passed and everything is on the up. But more people need to understand that this is a long haul effort, dispiriting as that may be.
I think everyone is aware of the dangerous world we live in now but I'd encourage people (not just you) to use a more measured approach in some of the terminology that's being used.  I feel that there's no inevitability involved in any of this (that's true to say about cures/vaccines also).  It's a rapidly changing situation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 14, 2020, 04:46:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 14, 2020, 04:42:58 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 14, 2020, 04:35:02 PM

*bickering over the price at the moment I believe. If the information led to a partial reopening of the economy even one day earlier, then even hundreds of millions paid above the price they might have negotiated down to would be extremely cheap. Penny wise, pound foolish.

If the government had a state run centre for testing vaccines and the rest required to combat such things then it wouldn't have to worry about paying for it!

Ah, not quite - they'll have many of the machines already for other Roche tests - but they still need to buy the tests themselves off Roche.

If they had their own R&D centres, then they'd need to have been the ones discovering the right mix for the test.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 14, 2020, 05:35:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 14, 2020, 09:40:43 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 14, 2020, 09:34:34 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 14, 2020, 09:26:51 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 14, 2020, 12:13:56 AM
some who have been on the covid payment, got part time work driving/cleaning/stocking etc, they wont go back to work until it runs out and will make the most of this while it lasts to prepare for the obvious downturn coming after

If they've taken part time work does that not exclude them from furloughed payment ?

Nearly sure I read that you cannot perform any paid work for your employer if furloughed (only training) but you can seek employment elsewehere if your current work contract allows (possibly to make up the missing 20%).

So if you were paid £400 per week you are looking for a part time job to pay you £80??

some pizza delivery drivers making 80 euro a night, cash in hand. hard to give that up while getting 350 covid payment as well. they'll wait til the payment is stopped.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 14, 2020, 06:39:27 PM
For the ROI

(https://i.ibb.co/QX8pX2f/EX-ss9z-Xk-AEEr-WI-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d7bj7dr)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 14, 2020, 06:49:01 PM
Going in the right direction anyway.
Let's hope it continues after the easing of some restrictions.
I see the 6 Co Executive relaxing a couple of measures Monday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on May 14, 2020, 07:00:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 14, 2020, 06:49:01 PM
Going in the right direction anyway.
Let's hope it continues after the easing of some restrictions.
I see the 6 Co Executive relaxing a couple of measures Monday.

426 new cases in the ROI today, is hardly going in the right direction.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 14, 2020, 07:06:49 PM
Check the oul details buck - load of them were old cases not notified till now for some reason.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 14, 2020, 07:30:12 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 14, 2020, 05:35:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 14, 2020, 09:40:43 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 14, 2020, 09:34:34 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 14, 2020, 09:26:51 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 14, 2020, 12:13:56 AM
some who have been on the covid payment, got part time work driving/cleaning/stocking etc, they wont go back to work until it runs out and will make the most of this while it lasts to prepare for the obvious downturn coming after

If they've taken part time work does that not exclude them from furloughed payment ?

Nearly sure I read that you cannot perform any paid work for your employer if furloughed (only training) but you can seek employment elsewehere if your current work contract allows (possibly to make up the missing 20%).

So if you were paid £400 per week you are looking for a part time job to pay you £80??

some pizza delivery drivers making 80 euro a night, cash in hand. hard to give that up while getting 350 covid payment as well. they'll wait til the payment is stopped.

Well if they are happy enough breaking the law, carry on?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 14, 2020, 07:31:23 PM
Quote from: Rudi on May 14, 2020, 07:00:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 14, 2020, 06:49:01 PM
Going in the right direction anyway.
Let's hope it continues after the easing of some restrictions.
I see the 6 Co Executive relaxing a couple of measures Monday.

426 new cases in the ROI today, is hardly going in the right direction.


The 426 cases are spread out over a long period (back to March) . Fewer than 200 of them in the last few days.

ROI is certainly going in the right direction especially when you look at the current hospital and ICU admissions and 58 is the current number in ICU. Not going in the wrong direction when the current restrictions are lifted is the big challenge in the months ahead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on May 15, 2020, 08:34:23 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 14, 2020, 07:06:49 PM
Check the oul details buck - load of them were old cases not notified till now for some reason.

Fair enough. Its an incrediably daft way of monitoring data all the same.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 15, 2020, 08:40:42 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 14, 2020, 04:35:02 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 14, 2020, 04:27:54 PM
Have you a link to these studies?

He posted one in post #5051.

Hopefully the govt get off their hole, order the tests*, and then start doing sampling. Then we might start to get an idea of just where we sit.

Then with that info, can start to establish whether it gives immunity and/or prevents passing it on.

Assuming anti-bodies does mean immunity and does mean you can't pass it on - then, they need to figure out whether its possible to build an immune carer buffer between the vulnerable and the less vulnerable - which would mean lockdown could be eased (not lifted) for many individuals <40 years old. Those over, say, 70 (or with health conditions) could cocoon, with all interactions limited to carers already with antibodies and therefore incapable of passing it on. So carers and would be carers would be tested as a matter of urgency.


*bickering over the price at the moment I believe. If the information led to a partial reopening of the economy even one day earlier, then even hundreds of millions paid above the price they might have negotiated down to would be extremely cheap. Penny wise, pound foolish.

the antibody test IMO isn't really the game changer unless we know for sure these antibodies offer immunity from getting it again or even if you can or can't carry the virus again.

There's going to be big issues with patents for these tests and hopefully the vaccine if/when it arrives as there's a lot of public money rightly being pumped into private pharma to speed up the development process as a French company recently came out to say that if they developed a vaccine they'd provide for the US market first as they'd received funding from there. I think the French Gov have had a word in their ear and they've backtracked on that somewhat.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 15, 2020, 08:41:24 AM
The south of Ireland are certainly going in the right direction
Cases per day week on week
17 April 559 confirmed cases down to 170
17 April 59 hospital inpatients a day down to 17
17 April icu beds 170 down to 55
17 April 33 deaths per day down to 13

They are getting there
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 15, 2020, 09:44:53 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 04:33:04 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 14, 2020, 04:27:54 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 04:01:56 PM
Quote from: mackers on May 14, 2020, 02:31:58 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 14, 2020, 01:19:27 PM
If these findings are even close to reality then multiple subsequent waves of infections are inevitable. And further lockdowns are inevitable. And further massive death tallies are inevitable. There's a notion at large that we're coming through the other side of this thing, when a lot of the evidence suggests that we're only staggering back to the corner after round 1.
Inevitable ....really? What do you base this throw away line on? I'm not for one second saying that it definitely won't happen but this sort of nonsense messes with my head! It seems as if people take pleasure in pronouncing doomsday scenarios.  Go easy.......we have a thread on this message board dealing with mental health.  This sort of stuff floating about the internet is not without implications you know.

Firstly, I'll spare you the life story, but you'll have to trust me when I say that I take no pleasure from a vision of the world where this virus exists.

Secondly, if negative information about this, or any other issue, causes you anxiety then the solution is to avoid the discussion. Unfortunately, there is very little reason for real positivity while the virus remains rampant across the planet. The development of the reliable antibody test is a positive news story, though.

Lastly, the inevitability of further infections, lockdowns, and deaths is a logical conclusion from the findings of these studies. c. 95% of the population remains an open goal once the thing is allowed to spread again. And spread it will as societies open up, just as it spread before they closed down.

It's important that information like this gets out to the public and is understood. This is the only way that there will be compliance with necessary future measures. As stated previously, the mood out there seems to be that the worst has passed and everything is on the up. But more people need to understand that this is a long haul effort, dispiriting as that may be.

Have you a link to these studies?

See above.

I read the article, it's very informative....However, it makes no mention of the positive test in late December in France which has been verified - which therefore puts their own modelling out of sync. Which I find strange for an article dated 13.05, it would seem odd to therefore put a number on how many people may or may not have had it when it's been in France for at least 6 weeks earlier than thought,

We are all still learning I suppose but I would really like more articles on these very early cases especially those in Europe especially anything that has references to different strains - most articles I've come across seems to suggest there are two strains in Europe.

Still searching for some kind of smoking to infection ratio in any country. I feel this would be imperative, certainly for the reassurance of those panicked by the figures banded about.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 15, 2020, 10:06:16 AM
So just confirmed that more than 50% of registered deaths in Northern Ireland are in Nursing homes
What a truly catastrophic stat. Nursing homes should have been protected first and foremost. The dogs in the street knew that the old and vulnerable with underlying health issues were the people who would get this virus. We in the north knew this and had time to sort stuff unlike Italy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 15, 2020, 10:15:44 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 15, 2020, 10:06:16 AM
So just confirmed that more than 50% of registered deaths in Northern Ireland are in Nursing homes
What a truly catastrophic stat. Nursing homes should have been protected first and foremost. The dogs in the street knew that the old and vulnerable with underlying health issues were the people who would get this virus. We in the north knew this and had time to sort stuff unlike Italy

Probably why Robyn Swann as gone AWOL.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 15, 2020, 10:21:24 AM
Quote from: Rudi on May 14, 2020, 07:00:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 14, 2020, 06:49:01 PM
Going in the right direction anyway.
Let's hope it continues after the easing of some restrictions.
I see the 6 Co Executive relaxing a couple of measures Monday.

426 new cases in the ROI today, is hardly going in the right direction.

200 of these are old cases that weren't reported from one hospital. Like in the name of God. That's just unforgivable. This half arsed, lackadaisical attitude isn't really on. And sorry to harp on but it's typical of these wankers who populate top civil service and government positions. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 15, 2020, 10:35:36 AM
And now the average deaths in the uk this past 5 years have been officially released and the deaths this past 3 weeks is actually lower than the average 5 year toll
Can anyone explain this? Probably because nobody is going out? Amazing
As Trump would say. It's time to open up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 15, 2020, 10:43:11 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 15, 2020, 10:35:36 AM
And now the average deaths in the uk this past 5 years have been officially released and the deaths this past 3 weeks is actually lower than the average 5 year toll
Can anyone explain this? Probably because nobody is going out? Amazing
As Trump would say. It's time to open up

I read from the very informative @ProfKarolSikora on twitter (give him a read if you don't already follow) yesterday, daily, there are 400+ deaths due to cancer in the UK.

I never thought it would be that high, for some reason that's a really sobering number to me that has me scratching my head a bit today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 15, 2020, 10:44:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 15, 2020, 10:35:36 AM
And now the average deaths in the uk this past 5 years have been officially released and the deaths this past 3 weeks is actually lower than the average 5 year toll
Can anyone explain this? Probably because nobody is going out? Amazing
As Trump would say. It's time to open up

Where have you seen this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tyrone Dreamer on May 15, 2020, 11:56:13 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 15, 2020, 10:35:36 AM
And now the average deaths in the uk this past 5 years have been officially released and the deaths this past 3 weeks is actually lower than the average 5 year toll
Can anyone explain this? Probably because nobody is going out? Amazing
As Trump would say. It's time to open up

Anything I've seen says deaths 50-60k higher in UK over last number of weeks than is normal for time of year. And that was with lockdown in place.

Not sure what the above is referring to. Is it for full years? Due to mild winters and other factors there was lower death rate this winter I think. If everyone went to work and ignored this virus there's no knowing how high deaths would be.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 15, 2020, 12:13:10 PM
Quote from: Tyrone Dreamer on May 15, 2020, 11:56:13 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 15, 2020, 10:35:36 AM
And now the average deaths in the uk this past 5 years have been officially released and the deaths this past 3 weeks is actually lower than the average 5 year toll
Can anyone explain this? Probably because nobody is going out? Amazing
As Trump would say. It's time to open up

Anything I've seen says deaths 50-60k higher in UK over last number of weeks than is normal for time of year. And that was with lockdown in place.

Not sure what the above is referring to. Is it for full years? Due to mild winters and other factors there was lower death rate this winter I think. If everyone went to work and ignored this virus there's no knowing how high deaths would be.

I went looking for this, there is new data butt the exact opposite, according to the Times.

New figures show that 12,526 care home residents died due to the coronavirus in England and Wales during the four months to May.

The provisional number of deaths of care home residents in England and Wales from December 28 to May 1 was 73,180, which was 23,136 more than the same period last year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 15, 2020, 01:00:25 PM
Maroon the official ONS twitter page this morning. Deaths dropped below 5 year average. Go check it out if you don't believe me
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tyrone Dreamer on May 15, 2020, 01:25:30 PM
In one week at end of April with lockdown in full swing? If anything the graphs up show the benefit of it kicking in. In the last two months deaths are well over 50,000 higher than normal. Given people haven't been out and less accidents that's a big number.

Even if they aren't all covid most of them are caused by the governments handling of it and initial slow response and open borders allowing disease to spread and keeping people from going to hospital.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 15, 2020, 01:50:05 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/boris-declares-war-on-fat-pm-ditches-his-nanny-state-worries-and-demands-action-plan-to-tackle-britains-obesity-crisis-after-blaming-his-severe-bout-of-coronavirus-on-being-overweight/ar-BB146zsD?li=BBoPWjQ

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 15, 2020, 01:55:29 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 15, 2020, 01:50:05 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/boris-declares-war-on-fat-pm-ditches-his-nanny-state-worries-and-demands-action-plan-to-tackle-britains-obesity-crisis-after-blaming-his-severe-bout-of-coronavirus-on-being-overweight/ar-BB146zsD?li=BBoPWjQ

Over 17 stone @ 5'9", god, no wonder those suits are shapeless..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 15, 2020, 02:05:25 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 15, 2020, 01:55:29 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 15, 2020, 01:50:05 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/boris-declares-war-on-fat-pm-ditches-his-nanny-state-worries-and-demands-action-plan-to-tackle-britains-obesity-crisis-after-blaming-his-severe-bout-of-coronavirus-on-being-overweight/ar-BB146zsD?li=BBoPWjQ

Over 17 stone @ 5'9", god, no wonder those suits are shapeless..

The 1 in 3 Brits overweight is a shocking stat in fairness. Wonder where we stand on that kind of thing - anyone have an idea where to look?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 15, 2020, 02:17:51 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 15, 2020, 02:05:25 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 15, 2020, 01:55:29 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 15, 2020, 01:50:05 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/boris-declares-war-on-fat-pm-ditches-his-nanny-state-worries-and-demands-action-plan-to-tackle-britains-obesity-crisis-after-blaming-his-severe-bout-of-coronavirus-on-being-overweight/ar-BB146zsD?li=BBoPWjQ

Over 17 stone @ 5'9", god, no wonder those suits are shapeless..

The 1 in 3 Brits overweight is a shocking stat in fairness. Wonder where we stand on that kind of thing - anyone have an idea where to look?

You only have to look at the queues of people lining up at the fast food places that have just opened up again!

In my day we had meat and veg 6 days a week, generally chippy if we're lucky on a Friday, it wasn't till I earned money that getting a chippy or (first fast food place) KFC was easier to get or more frequent,  kids have access to these places 24/7, the exposure through advertising is huge.

There is no way you'll stop this, it's only going to get worse, if you look at the USA, they had fast food from the 60's we had it late 80's, so it's no surprise now that obesity is getting worse.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 15, 2020, 02:37:17 PM
It is probably Boris trying to deflect as usual.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 15, 2020, 02:39:46 PM
We're not doing to well here anyway
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/very-unfair-that-ireland-has-highest-obesity-rate-yet-poorest-access-to-treatment-956453.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on May 15, 2020, 02:50:08 PM
Obesity which would bring on conditions like poor lung function, diabetes, high blood pressure, hypertension, heart disease all seem to add massively to covid death rate, the virus causes thrombosis which leads to stroke and heart failure .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 15, 2020, 02:56:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 15, 2020, 02:39:46 PM
We're not doing to well here anyway
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/very-unfair-that-ireland-has-highest-obesity-rate-yet-poorest-access-to-treatment-956453.html

A lot of fat people about. But you're not allowed to call someone fat. Or mention their weight because you know... lets not mention the elephant the room ..literally.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 15, 2020, 03:00:00 PM
Based on the current figures, it doesn't take much to be obese
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 15, 2020, 03:17:09 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 15, 2020, 02:50:08 PM
Obesity which would bring on conditions like poor lung function, diabetes, high blood pressure, hypertension, heart disease all seem to add massively to covid death rate, the virus causes thrombosis which leads to stroke and heart failure .

I would really like to see, going forward an emphasis on healthy living and rewarding healthy lifestyles for the population. I'm not adverse to a sugar tax or so called sin tax for most things - I mean within reason, it makes sense. And if it helps us all out of the financial mess, why not. Perhaps it can be taken further, maybe those who are deemed to be in whatever perimeters can be rewarded in some way.

What needs looked at is the fact you can go and get a feed in McDonalds or whatever for less than you can get a decent salad. Doesn't make sense to me whatsoever and definitely not the way to encourage our youth going forward.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 15, 2020, 03:22:33 PM
With the ubiquitous dressings that accompany them, salads can be every bit as fattening as any McDonalds meal.

And good luck with all those new taxes in the recession or depression that awaits us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 15, 2020, 03:26:25 PM
A lot of laziness in cooking dinner, and the handiness of ready meals in the likes of KFC, McD's and so on.

Most shops now have food counters, i called in one day to get fuel in a garage and the food counter was serving Sunday dinners, and a big queue of people waiting for it! The one I noticed paid £9 for 2 dinners. A chicken costs £4.50 potato's £1.50 pea's and other veg but why be arsed to cook it eh?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sambostar on May 15, 2020, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: Tyrone Dreamer on May 15, 2020, 11:56:13 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 15, 2020, 10:35:36 AM
And now the average deaths in the uk this past 5 years have been officially released and the deaths this past 3 weeks is actually lower than the average 5 year toll
Can anyone explain this? Probably because nobody is going out? Amazing
As Trump would say. It's time to open up

Anything I've seen says deaths 50-60k higher in UK over last number of weeks than is normal for time of year. And that was with lockdown in place.

Not sure what the above is referring to. Is it for full years? Due to mild winters and other factors there was lower death rate this winter I think. If everyone went to work and ignored this virus there's no knowing how high deaths would be.

Yes link below says 60k excess deaths

https://www.theactuary.com/2020/05/14/covid-19-results-around-60000-excess-deaths
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 15, 2020, 04:01:39 PM
After months of virus still no information on the amount of recoveries in the UK?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 15, 2020, 04:23:18 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 15, 2020, 01:00:25 PM
Maroon the official ONS twitter page this morning. Deaths dropped below 5 year average. Go check it out if you don't believe me

this is the page
https://twitter.com/ONS

which tweet said  this?

If you go to the webpage it says
The provisional number of deaths registered in England and Wales in the week ending 17 April 2020 (Week 16) was 22,351; this represents an increase of 3,835 deaths registered compared with the previous week (Week 15) and 11,854 more than the five-year average; this is the highest weekly total recorded since comparable figures begin in 1993.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on May 15, 2020, 04:59:07 PM
Ill back smurfy on this one. Yer man sikora said it and referenced the ons boyos.
Although past 6 weeks etc have been huge this weeks average is below the weekly average of the past 5yrs tho ive probably said it wrong...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 15, 2020, 05:19:57 PM
Leo has finally recommended the wearing of face coverings on busy public transport and in busy enclosed areas such as shops. Out of interest how many on here have worn face coverings while in busy shops?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 15, 2020, 05:20:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 15, 2020, 03:26:25 PM
A lot of laziness in cooking dinner, and the handiness of ready meals in the likes of KFC, McD's and so on.

Most shops now have food counters, i called in one day to get fuel in a garage and the food counter was serving Sunday dinners, and a big queue of people waiting for it! The one I noticed paid £9 for 2 dinners. A chicken costs £4.50 potato's £1.50 pea's and other veg but why be arsed to cook it eh?

Everyone should be aware of how many calories their supposed to eat a day and how eating a McDonalds would impact on it. Just checked a BigMac medium meal with a coke and a bbq dip would amount to 60% of my daily intake.

More needs to be done in schools on health so it becomes second nature as they get older, the same goes for money.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on May 15, 2020, 06:16:04 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 15, 2020, 05:19:57 PM
Leo has finally recommended the wearing of face coverings on busy public transport and in busy enclosed areas such as shops. Out of interest how many on here have worn face coverings while in busy shops?

I haven't and I wont be either. Expert advice up to last week said masks are not advised and now suddenly they are. It's to do with giving people a warm fuzzy sense of security. I'll be visiting shops at quiet times with no mask as that is the safest way to proceed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 15, 2020, 06:46:03 PM
The number of people going to foodbanks in Britain up be 120% in 2 months
That's the start of it
What else will follow
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 15, 2020, 06:46:12 PM
I presume it only refers to England but I saw on BBC the R thingy has gone from 0.5 to 0.9.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 15, 2020, 07:00:53 PM
Wore a mask in shops from Day 1, felt safer with it, plus always carried santinser in car
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on May 15, 2020, 08:40:13 PM
Peoples immune systems will become compromised greatly by all this hand washing,  wearing of masks and social distancing in general.
Trailer makes some valid points some pages back & I did see a documentary by McWilliams on RTE. He looked at the Irish set up and essentially he inferred our best dont make it to the top. Educational system and political cronyism has stacked the odds against better people making it.
By the way a number of hospitals have stopped testing, now samples are sent to a private laboratory in the east, this is more about cronyism than peoples health. Tis all about vested interests and money in this country.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 15, 2020, 08:53:08 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 15, 2020, 06:16:04 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 15, 2020, 05:19:57 PM
Leo has finally recommended the wearing of face coverings on busy public transport and in busy enclosed areas such as shops. Out of interest how many on here have worn face coverings while in busy shops?

I haven't and I wont be either. Expert advice up to last week said masks are not advised and now suddenly they are. It's to do with giving people a warm fuzzy sense of security. I'll be visiting shops at quiet times with no mask as that is the safest way to proceed.

The safest for whom?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on May 15, 2020, 09:21:19 PM
Infection rate in UK gone up https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52677194
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on May 15, 2020, 10:49:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 15, 2020, 08:53:08 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 15, 2020, 06:16:04 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 15, 2020, 05:19:57 PM
Leo has finally recommended the wearing of face coverings on busy public transport and in busy enclosed areas such as shops. Out of interest how many on here have worn face coverings while in busy shops?

I haven't and I wont be either. Expert advice up to last week said masks are not advised and now suddenly they are. It's to do with giving people a warm fuzzy sense of security. I'll be visiting shops at quiet times with no mask as that is the safest way to proceed.

The safest for whom?

I have started wearing a mask when out for a walk and will wear it to the shops tomorrow. It is all about not spreading the disease. If everone wears a mask the disease can not spread. Everyone should wear a mask especially on public transport and in shops etc. It will be one of the keys to easing the lockdown and getting back to work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 15, 2020, 11:03:20 PM
Haven't wore a mask and probably won't. Take sanitiser in car, spray gate after visitors, spray bin before and after council have dumped it.
Wipe messages down.
Wipe bank card after transactions. But my hands aren't as raw so I think I've probably eased off
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyssam5 on May 15, 2020, 11:41:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 15, 2020, 06:16:04 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 15, 2020, 05:19:57 PM
Leo has finally recommended the wearing of face coverings on busy public transport and in busy enclosed areas such as shops. Out of interest how many on here have worn face coverings while in busy shops?

I haven't and I wont be either. Expert advice up to last week said masks are not advised and now suddenly they are. It's to do with giving people a warm fuzzy sense of security. I'll be visiting shops at quiet times with no mask as that is the safest way to proceed.

That advice in most countries was because people didn't have any masks or none were available. I'm definitely wearing one in a shop. It not just about you, the people who work there have exposure from multiple people every day. Even with a home made mask, if it only 20% effective that's a lot better than nothing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 15, 2020, 11:50:39 PM
The peak is long gone. Wear masks if it makes you feel like it maybe 1% better most definitely
I did say a month or so again that this thing will die down and it has everywhere. Peak for 3/4 weeks then die off. Now if we get more peaks I will hold my hands up and say I was wrong but I don't believe a second peak is anywhere to be seen. We keep hearing about the r number risen in Germany Spain Italy UK. I couldn't care a less if the r number goes to 4 all I'm interested in is the deaths gettting eliminated and the number in icu going to 0.
Numbers in Ireland this week have been very encouraging from where we were at even last week. Keep fighting the good fight and we will win eventually. In 4 weeks we will be out the other side
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 15, 2020, 11:58:23 PM
You know were R=4 ultimately ends up like?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 12:04:49 AM
Not interested in the r rate.
R rate in Germany went up to 1.4 last week deaths and cases went down. Let's see if we see a spike in 3 weeks in Germany because the r rotate had that spike. Let's wait and see
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 16, 2020, 12:07:56 AM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on May 15, 2020, 04:59:07 PM
Ill back smurfy on this one. Yer man sikora said it and referenced the ons boyos.
Although past 6 weeks etc have been huge this weeks average is below the weekly average of the past 5yrs tho ive probably said it wrong...

No, it is just plain up.

(https://i.postimg.cc/t4sthhSR/Screenshot-2020-05-15-UK-Covid-Tracker-1.png)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on May 16, 2020, 12:27:19 AM
Sorry cant copy and paste from this sh1t phone but karol sikora 13h ago posted deaths per day had actually fell below the 5yr average and posted link to the research hope we are talking about same thing if not apologies
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 16, 2020, 01:15:02 AM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on May 16, 2020, 12:27:19 AM
Sorry cant copy and paste from this sh1t phone but karol sikora 13h ago posted deaths per day had actually fell below the 5yr average and posted link to the research hope we are talking about same thing if not apologies

He did say that, not quite sure how he came to that conclusion. But if he had a point, it was that things had improved by the end of April and that is true. However, England is opening up as other European countries are but the curve is lagging behind these places.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on May 16, 2020, 09:31:23 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 15, 2020, 08:53:08 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 15, 2020, 06:16:04 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 15, 2020, 05:19:57 PM
Leo has finally recommended the wearing of face coverings on busy public transport and in busy enclosed areas such as shops. Out of interest how many on here have worn face coverings while in busy shops?

I haven't and I wont be either. Expert advice up to last week said masks are not advised and now suddenly they are. It's to do with giving people a warm fuzzy sense of security. I'll be visiting shops at quiet times with no mask as that is the safest way to proceed.

The safest for whom?

Just to clarify , the reason for encouraging masks is to protect others. If an asympomatic carrier sneezes he will trap a percentage of particles in the mask thereby reducing risk of viral transfer. Encouraging masks in tight places makes perfect sense, but if we all buy loads of disposable masks it could risk supply to those who need it most , therefore the advice on making your own improvised mask. Fair play to those already wearing masks in tight places.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 16, 2020, 09:58:40 AM
Didn't realise you had a medical degree smurfy and know more than the experts and how the R value correspondes to rate of infection 🤔 so it's very important.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 10:19:13 AM
Lets wait and see Wiesel let's just wait and see.
The spike should happen in 3 weeks I have my doubts
The numbers in look at is deaths and ICU
Every number is a person don't forget Wiesel
I have my doubts about this flu.
A seasonal thing. Denmark out of lockdown 5 weeks and cases have went down
Let's hold fire until we see what happens
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 12:18:10 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 10:19:13 AM
I have my doubts about this flu.

[Agh. I didn't want to come back in and do this but... and probably little point as the idiots will just go "ah but strawmen everywhere"]


That is because its clearly beyond your comprehension.

Like a toddler walking to the lit fireplace and crying when carried away - the adults in the room simply have to ignore the ignorant opinion of these toddlers - they simply don't know what is best for them.

The rate of infection is dropping only because of the draconian measures taken - I hope something treatment wise comes out of the woodwork ASAP - but folks clamouring for "back to normal" simply don't understand what they are asking for.
Hopefully lockdown can be tweaked so that impact on the economy is minimised (in as much as that is possible) while keeping spread under control. But simply removing all measures and saying "carry on", will only lead to utter disaster in 2 months time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 12:58:24 PM
So South Korea with a 55 million didn't shut down but had a great healthcare and plan in place to deal with it?
Maybe you should encourage that we get our house in order to deal with it instead of locking everything down
Explain South Korea with no prior notice that the virus was coming u like us
No Plan
Inept government
No clue what to do

Right let's follow Italy and Spain and close the place down because we have no clue what to do
South Korea
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on May 16, 2020, 01:07:11 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 12:18:10 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 10:19:13 AM
I have my doubts about this flu.

[Agh. I didn't want to come back in and do this but... and probably little point as the idiots will just go "ah but strawmen everywhere"]


That is because its clearly beyond your comprehension.

Like a toddler walking to the lit fireplace and crying when carried away - the adults in the room simply have to ignore the ignorant opinion of these toddlers - they simply don't know what is best for them.

The rate of infection is dropping only because of the draconian measures taken - I hope something treatment wise comes out of the woodwork ASAP - but folks clamouring for "back to normal" simply don't understand what they are asking for.
Hopefully lockdown can be tweaked so that impact on the economy is minimised (in as much as that is possible) while keeping spread under control. But simply removing all measures and saying "carry on", will only lead to utter disaster in 2 months time.

As a family & wider family circle, we have locked down and will continue to do so.

I continue to work as I'm in the health sector. What I have noticed though is the traffic on the roads and retail parks. The first few weeks it was like Christmas day traffic wise everyday. Now its like a normal Monday, Tuesday etc.. Traffic jams were there used to be traffic jams and the like.

Also, housing estates like the Creggan here in Derry City(must be one of the biggest housing estates in Europe) has been flat out with the street parties for weeks. Literally 100s and 100s out drinking on the streets, mingling, hugging, music provided etc. There's plenty of 3 generational families living in this estate to boot.
Now, during all this time (take the last 4 weeks), the ICU ward in Altnagelvin has topped out at 2 patients.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 01:17:53 PM
Well said JoG2. And as I matter of fact I have also followed lockdown but I won't lie I'm struggling now
The Georgia state in America who opened up 3 weeks ago has seen new cases now drop. And even I was saying it was madness to open up at the time. They were the first state in America to open and got widespread criticism for it but no word now when cases all down. Time will time
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: naka on May 16, 2020, 01:52:05 PM
Lock down is starting to become stressful I would say for all concerned as we have no end in sight as such.
I would love to know the r rate if we exclude care homes because I think at this stage in NI at least it would be quite low.
As I have said before the  uk and Irish reactions to this flu will cause economic chaos to young people because come  the autumn redundancies will start kicking in.
Furlough  monies is like a Large bill being paid every month at the moment.
We should look back on this thread in 5 years time to ascertain if the cure was harsher than the illness .
No one can guess when we get out to the other side but truthfully we need some dates in NI to focus on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 02:31:33 PM
In the Bundesliga on tv at moment, players on field crashing into each other with no masks. Subs on bench, sit 2 meters apart but all have to wear masks. I think this shows the truth about masks, a gimmick to make us feel safe rather than be safe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 16, 2020, 02:53:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 02:31:33 PM
In the Bundesliga on tv at moment, players on field crashing into each other with no masks. Subs on bench, sit 2 meters apart but all have to wear masks. I think this shows the truth about masks, a gimmick to make us feel safe rather than be safe.

I don't know that it says that. It says that people feel sport is exempt from the restrictions(all of them)which puzzles me. Trying to do something physically rigorous and wearing a mask which will presumably impair breathing in some capacity doesn't make sense either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 16, 2020, 03:03:21 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 02:31:33 PM
In the Bundesliga on tv at moment, players on field crashing into each other with no masks. Subs on bench, sit 2 meters apart but all have to wear masks. I think this shows the truth about masks, a gimmick to make us feel safe rather than be safe.

Its quite simple.

The masks are to minimize your dispersal of aerosols from your mouth.

The lads on the bench are sitting together for up to 45 minutes at a time. The longer two people are conversing or otherwise in close proximity, the greater the odds of transmission of an infectious dose of the virus taking place.

I don't think anyone is saying the lads on the pitch have zero risk, but at least they're not sitting in close proximity to each other, chatting away one on one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 03:25:01 PM
Tommy sport certainly isn't exempt from this. They have been shut down for 61 days
We could say the same for garden centres beaches etc opening on Monday.
Why do you say sport is exempt even though the have been shut down?
Radio thought you may struggle to reply to my facts
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 03:29:37 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 16, 2020, 02:42:51 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 02:31:33 PM
In the Bundesliga on tv at moment, players on field crashing into each other with no masks. Subs on bench, sit 2 meters apart but all have to wear masks. I think this shows the truth about masks, a gimmick to make us feel safe rather than be safe.
Is the 2m apart also a gimmick in this case?

In this case it is, not much point sitting 2m apart from your fellow subs then go on as a sub and start doing sliding tackles on a player from another team.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 16, 2020, 03:53:27 PM
Reading this the six counties need to significantly improve their testing and contact tracing.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Care2much18/status/1261573395201904642
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 16, 2020, 05:06:01 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 03:25:01 PM
Tommy sport certainly isn't exempt from this. They have been shut down for 61 days
We could say the same for garden centres beaches etc opening on Monday.
Why do you say sport is exempt even though the have been shut down?
Radio thought you may struggle to reply to my facts

Socially distance everywhere except the pitch.

Garden centres and beaches should have social distancing in effect. Whether they are or not is a different matter. Expectation of society is to socially distance except on a pitch.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on May 16, 2020, 05:06:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 02:31:33 PM
In the Bundesliga on tv at moment, players on field crashing into each other with no masks. Subs on bench, sit 2 meters apart but all have to wear masks. I think this shows the truth about masks, a gimmick to make us feel safe rather than be safe.
This is typical of this discussion board. Your coming out with this because of the view you had on people who wore masks at the start, that they were depriving front line NHS workers of masks. Which wasnt actually the case, but I understand why the government didn't want to tell people to wear them until they had their supply chain sorted. Your doubling down now. The evidence is irrefutable that they prevent  spread. Posters have tried to explain to you why that is, but you have chose to ignore that rather than admit you may have got it wrong. Your saying that it is a gimmick while at the same time I bet you cough in to your sleeve or elbow and away from people? Do you not see the contradiction there?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: charlieTully on May 16, 2020, 06:23:40 PM
I suppose Smurph and boys will do the decent thing and stay at home and die instead of looking hospital treatment when the second wave kicks in because they couldn't stay in for a few weeks. Leave the ventilators to those who have followed the rules . It's been a few weeks ffs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: naka on May 16, 2020, 06:30:02 PM
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/05/15/we-could-open-up-again-and-forget-the-whole-thing/
Interesting alternative view
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 16, 2020, 06:43:38 PM
Interesting. I don't understand the child death in Switzerland thing. So it wasn't a child and they were 108? Surely someone would have noticed this...

He talks about the second wave basically being nonsense. I have some friends who are high up doctors and would be very clued in and they are very concerned about a second wave. I don't fully buy into that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 06:48:22 PM
Naka very interesting article
Second wave? We really are still waiting on this massive first wave that has not come
And I will say it again that is in all respect to everyone who has lost lives. It really is
How can South Korea have no cases with no lockdown? An exceptional plan that is why.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on May 16, 2020, 06:50:20 PM
There's an interview with Professor Dolores Cahill doing the rounds that follows a similar theme to that article also.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 06:58:36 PM
92 confirmed cases in the south today
144 hospitals in the south of sort
All cancer appointments cancelled
Makes you think
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 16, 2020, 07:02:16 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 16, 2020, 05:06:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 02:31:33 PM
In the Bundesliga on tv at moment, players on field crashing into each other with no masks. Subs on bench, sit 2 meters apart but all have to wear masks. I think this shows the truth about masks, a gimmick to make us feel safe rather than be safe.
This is typical of this discussion board. Your coming out with this because of the view you had on people who wore masks at the start, that they were depriving front line NHS workers of masks. Which wasnt actually the case, but I understand why the government didn't want to tell people to wear them until they had their supply chain sorted. Your doubling down now. The evidence is irrefutable that they prevent  spread. Posters have tried to explain to you why that is, but you have chose to ignore that rather than admit you may have got it wrong. Your saying that it is a gimmick while at the same time I bet you cough in to your sleeve or elbow and away from people? Do you not see the contradiction there?
The pissing yourself / wearing pants meme summed it all up nicley - if you don't wear pants and piss you'll soak yourself and those around you, if you wear pants and piss you'll still get soaked but less so & won't soak those beside you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 16, 2020, 07:09:40 PM
Quote from: naka on May 16, 2020, 06:30:02 PM
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/05/15/we-could-open-up-again-and-forget-the-whole-thing/
Interesting alternative view

You can't believe what every knut says.

This is bizarre. He says that hospitals could not become overloaded, yet they did in Wuhan, Bergamo and New York.
If the likes of Boris or Mary-Lou has to go to hospital then you are talking about a lot of people over 50, in Ireland you have 3 hospital beds per 1000, you simply cannot have a  substantial percentage of people over 50 going into hospital at the same time.
And anyone who talks about other patients being afraid to go to hospital is a fraud, if the disease is there people will be afraid whether the pubs are closed or not. The lockdown does not prohibit people from getting medical treatment, rather it helps them.
He says "All the studies that have been done have shown that we already have at least 25 per cent of the population who are immune. " this is fraudulent. The study in Spain (https://www.vox.com/2020/5/16/21259492/covid-antibodies-spain-serology-study-coronavirus-immunity), one of the worst affected countries, showed 5% infected.

This guy has academic credentials, but I can only surmise that he has chosen to ignore his academic training for some political purpose.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 16, 2020, 07:25:47 PM
Armaghniac I would be on the same page as you for a lot of this but your comment about patients going to hospital... People are scared to go to hospital. It's the most likely place you'll get this thing. It is a recognised by many as a genuine concern and problem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 16, 2020, 07:42:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2020, 07:09:40 PM
Quote from: naka on May 16, 2020, 06:30:02 PM
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/05/15/we-could-open-up-again-and-forget-the-whole-thing/
Interesting alternative view

You can't believe what every knut says.

This is bizarre. He says that hospitals could not become overloaded, yet they did in Wuhan, Bergamo and New York.
If the likes of Boris or Mary-Lou has to go to hospital then you are talking about a lot of people over 50, in Ireland you have 3 hospital beds per 1000, you simply cannot have a  substantial percentage of people over 50 going into hospital at the same time.
And anyone who talks about other patients being afraid to go to hospital is a fraud, if the disease is there people will be afraid whether the pubs are closed or not. The lockdown does not prohibit people from getting medical treatment, rather it helps them.
He says "All the studies that have been done have shown that we already have at least 25 per cent of the population who are immune. " this is fraudulent. The study in Spain (https://www.vox.com/2020/5/16/21259492/covid-antibodies-spain-serology-study-coronavirus-immunity), one of the worst affected countries, showed 5% infected.

This guy has academic credentials, but I can only surmise that he has chosen to ignore his academic training for some political purpose.

Unless I've missed it, they have yet to establish that the presence of anti-bodies means that a person is immune. Hopefully it does, obviously. Serology studies were showing, as of a week or two ago, that one in five had antibodies in NYC.

This guy is correct about the nursing homes, and good and all as he has been through this, its a stain on Cuomo and his administration's decision making.

Rockerfeller University don't want to be associated with his views on lockdown though. They put out a statement in April. https://www.rockefeller.edu/news/27872-rockefeller-university-releases-statement-concerning-dr-knut-wittkowski/ (https://www.rockefeller.edu/news/27872-rockefeller-university-releases-statement-concerning-dr-knut-wittkowski/)

Also, you tube just removed a video of his.https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/youtube-censors-epidemiologist-knut-wittkowski-for-opposing-lockdown/ (https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/youtube-censors-epidemiologist-knut-wittkowski-for-opposing-lockdown/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2020, 07:51:51 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 16, 2020, 07:25:47 PM
Armaghniac I would be on the same page as you for a lot of this but your comment about patients going to hospital... People are scared to go to hospital. It's the most likely place you'll get this thing. It is a recognised by many as a genuine concern and problem.

I'm taking my dad every other week to hospital, he doesn't want to go and is afraid, but he's no choice, I've no choice, but I want to take him, the hospitals (Royal and City) have been perfect.

I understand that's the last place you want to be and I've responsibilities to my own family too but if there is a need to go, you have to go.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 16, 2020, 07:59:54 PM
Yeah agreed. A big mistake they have made in Belfast is building that nightingale beside the cancer centre. That hasn't helped though some stuff has been moved to Ulster independent I think.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 08:09:54 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 16, 2020, 05:06:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 02:31:33 PM
In the Bundesliga on tv at moment, players on field crashing into each other with no masks. Subs on bench, sit 2 meters apart but all have to wear masks. I think this shows the truth about masks, a gimmick to make us feel safe rather than be safe.
This is typical of this discussion board. Your coming out with this because of the view you had on people who wore masks at the start, that they were depriving front line NHS workers of masks. Which wasnt actually the case, but I understand why the government didn't want to tell people to wear them until they had their supply chain sorted. Your doubling down now. The evidence is irrefutable that they prevent  spread. Posters have tried to explain to you why that is, but you have chose to ignore that rather than admit you may have got it wrong. Your saying that it is a gimmick while at the same time I bet you cough in to your sleeve or elbow and away from people? Do you not see the contradiction there?

I have been consistent on this and the advise coming from the experts in this country was also consistent up until last week. Masks have a place, for front line workers and on busy subways etc. However they also give people a false sense of security causing them to relax social distancing. I don't recall the Irish government once mentioning Mask supply chain as a reason not wear them. You will see masks being fidgeted with and adjusted. Tell me if they are so key a protector why are so many health care workers getting infected? I suppose yuo believe that temp checks at airports will be an effective means to stop infection across borders too.

We have brought this virus back and flattened the curve and this was achieved without Masks or temp checks. What is happening now is politicians are moving away from data based science to lets convince everyone its safe to start going back to normal. Maybe they need to do that but I'd rather they would be honest about it instead of convincing fools that a mask will protect them.

Can you return to my previous post, do you think there is any point German players sitting on the subs bench 2m apart should be wearing masks. If you think it is sensible maybe you could explain why. If you think it is not sensible maybe you could hazard a guess at why they were asked to wear them?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 08:13:42 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 06:48:22 PM
Naka very interesting article
Second wave? We really are still waiting on this massive first wave that has not come
And I will say it again that is in all respect to everyone who has lost lives. It really is
How can South Korea have no cases with no lockdown? An exceptional plan that is why.

So you dont think there was a first wave? 310,00 deaths and that despite a hard lock down and the world grinding to a halt. Other news for Smurfy the world is not Flat and Elvis is dead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2020, 08:24:13 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 16, 2020, 07:59:54 PM
Yeah agreed. A big mistake they have made in Belfast is building that nightingale beside the cancer centre. That hasn't helped though some stuff has been moved to Ulster independent I think.

It's literally two metres away! But they have very good measures in place to be fair to them. Very difficult on us but we've no other choice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 08:38:11 PM
I don't believe it's a big as what many people are making it out to be
450 deaths per day die of cancer in the uk
Astonishing over 1600 a day every day in America
30 people per day in Southern Ireland
Perspective
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 08:38:53 PM
I don't believe it's a big as what many people are making it out to be
450 deaths per day die of cancer in the uk
Astonishing over 1600 a day every day in America
30 people per day in Southern Ireland
Perspective
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 08:48:22 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 12:58:24 PM
So South Korea with a 55 million didn't shut down but had a great healthcare and plan in place to deal with it?

They had a full testing and tracing infrastructure in place due to the lessons they learned the hard way from SARS.


If we had the setup of South Korea - then we could do what they've done (which includes making everyone download and use the tracing app for their phones). But we're not. We've idiots in charge being advised by academics. Therefore we have to use a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 08:51:39 PM
What about Georgia in America? Cases gone down in 3 weeks? Everyone telling them including myself it was mad
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 08:57:26 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 03:25:01 PM
Tommy sport certainly isn't exempt from this. They have been shut down for 61 days

We could say the same for garden centres beaches etc opening on Monday.

Why do you say sport is exempt even though the have been shut down?

Radio thought you may struggle to reply to my facts

Your facts?

You wouldn't know a proper fact if it hit you in the face with the edge of a hurl.


Sport is not exempt anywhere. Germany are making extremely limited exceptions. Germany have the testing capacity to make sure the players are free of it (note, they are quarantining all players/staff for 7 days prior to the games).

Garden centres here - that is a political decision as much as a medical one. However, garden centres tend to be outdoors - which means the presence of at least a breeze usually - this will rapidly disperse any suspended droplets reducing risk of a sneeze "hanging around". Is it ideal? Not in a perfect world - but if the economy is to be got up and running in some shape or form, if outdoor shops prove unsafe, then offices and non-essential shopping faces a much bigger problem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 09:00:45 PM
Quote from: naka on May 16, 2020, 06:30:02 PM
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/05/15/we-could-open-up-again-and-forget-the-whole-thing/
Interesting alternative view

That guys a fuckin' idiot. Ignore it.

All his bullshit and blathering stops when you look at a case mortality rate of >10% in Lombardy.

His shares are probably nosediving.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on May 16, 2020, 09:01:46 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 08:48:22 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 12:58:24 PM
So South Korea with a 55 million didn't shut down but had a great healthcare and plan in place to deal with it?

They had a full testing and tracing infrastructure in place due to the lessons they learned the hard way from SARS.


If we had the setup of South Korea - then we could do what they've done (which includes making everyone download and use the tracing app for their phones). But we're not. We've idiots in charge being advised by academics. Therefore we have to use a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Bit harsh there radiogaga. South Korea have had a taste of this before and have learnt some lessons. This is new to us and as a society we were not prepared. If there was a similar incident in ten years time I'd hope we would be better prepared. In saying that I think the govt have done a good job and I'm no lover of fg.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 16, 2020, 09:04:25 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 16, 2020, 07:25:47 PM
Armaghniac I would be on the same page as you for a lot of this but your comment about patients going to hospital... People are scared to go to hospital. It's the most likely place you'll get this thing. It is a recognised by many as a genuine concern and problem.

You took me up wrong. I am an opponent of the false contention that the "lockdown" causes problems for ill other people. Those people are concerned because of the large number of Covid patients in hospital and the signficant amount of people who got it there, this is reasonable as you say. But it is the virus that causes a large number of people in hospital, not the lockdown. The lockdown has to do with closing pubs and the like, this reduces the transmission of the disease and so could benefit people who need to go to hospital. But people who have some financial interest in opening businesses use cancer patients an excuse when in fact they either are not connected or will in fact benefit from the lockdown.

It is the old story, get out a false narrative and rely on that to bring about your true objectives.

Quote from: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 08:09:54 PM
We have brought this virus back and flattened the curve and this was achieved without Masks or temp checks. What is happening now is politicians are moving away from data based science to lets convince everyone its safe to start going back to normal. Maybe they need to do that but I'd rather they would be honest about it instead of convincing fools that a mask will protect them.

That is the point. When everything was closed and people were not going on buses etc then masks were not needed. When things open up and people start moving around then they are needed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 09:04:29 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 08:38:11 PM
I don't believe it's a big as what many people are making it out to be

What a fukkin idiot you are.

To equivalence something that has been around for 4 months* with cancer and believe that's a valid comparison.

*around 1.5 of which has involved shuttering the economy to reduce it's spread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 09:05:59 PM
Quote from: ardtole on May 16, 2020, 09:01:46 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 08:48:22 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 12:58:24 PM
So South Korea with a 55 million didn't shut down but had a great healthcare and plan in place to deal with it?

They had a full testing and tracing infrastructure in place due to the lessons they learned the hard way from SARS.


If we had the setup of South Korea - then we could do what they've done (which includes making everyone download and use the tracing app for their phones). But we're not. We've idiots in charge being advised by academics. Therefore we have to use a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Bit harsh there radiogaga. South Korea have had a taste of this before and have learnt some lessons. This is new to us and as a society we were not prepared. If there was a similar incident in ten years time I'd hope we would be better prepared. In saying that I think the govt have done a good job and I'm no lover of fg.

I wouldn't expect us to be as slick as South Korea.

At the same time, given the warnings coming from Asia in January and given the clear and present danger presented in Italy in Feburary, repeating their mistakes in March can only bring the strongest condemnation of the abilities of those in government and advising policy on the matter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 16, 2020, 09:14:53 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 08:09:54 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 16, 2020, 05:06:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 02:31:33 PM
In the Bundesliga on tv at moment, players on field crashing into each other with no masks. Subs on bench, sit 2 meters apart but all have to wear masks. I think this shows the truth about masks, a gimmick to make us feel safe rather than be safe.
This is typical of this discussion board. Your coming out with this because of the view you had on people who wore masks at the start, that they were depriving front line NHS workers of masks. Which wasnt actually the case, but I understand why the government didn't want to tell people to wear them until they had their supply chain sorted. Your doubling down now. The evidence is irrefutable that they prevent  spread. Posters have tried to explain to you why that is, but you have chose to ignore that rather than admit you may have got it wrong. Your saying that it is a gimmick while at the same time I bet you cough in to your sleeve or elbow and away from people? Do you not see the contradiction there?

I have been consistent on this and the advise coming from the experts in this country was also consistent up until last week. Masks have a place, for front line workers and on busy subways etc. However they also give people a false sense of security causing them to relax social distancing. I don't recall the Irish government once mentioning Mask supply chain as a reason not wear them. You will see masks being fidgeted with and adjusted. Tell me if they are so key a protector why are so many health care workers getting infected? I suppose yuo believe that temp checks at airports will be an effective means to stop infection across borders too.

We have brought this virus back and flattened the curve and this was achieved without Masks or temp checks. What is happening now is politicians are moving away from data based science to lets convince everyone its safe to start going back to normal. Maybe they need to do that but I'd rather they would be honest about it instead of convincing fools that a mask will protect them.

Can you return to my previous post, do you think there is any point German players sitting on the subs bench 2m apart should be wearing masks. If you think it is sensible maybe you could explain why. If you think it is not sensible maybe you could hazard a guess at why they were asked to wear them?

I already responded to you on this but you ignored it.

The dose of virus you get is a key factor. The longer and more closely two people are around each other, the greater the chance of one infecting the other as more virus will be shed by one and inhaled by the other.

Yes, two meters is where they're generally drawing the line for social distancing and advising the use of masks where it is not possible, but given that these lads are going to be sitting next to each other for 45 minutes or more each half, even if spaced out two meters, it is probably a good idea to keep the masks on. Especially as there has been some opinion out there that the two meter/six foot threshold may be insufficient anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 09:26:52 PM
Jesus radio are you the only person with an opinion!
Idiot?
Really radio pull your horns in
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 09:38:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 16, 2020, 09:04:25 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 16, 2020, 07:25:47 PM
Armaghniac I would be on the same page as you for a lot of this but your comment about patients going to hospital... People are scared to go to hospital. It's the most likely place you'll get this thing. It is a recognised by many as a genuine concern and problem.

You took me up wrong. I am an opponent of the false contention that the "lockdown" causes problems for ill other people. Those people are concerned because of the large number of Covid patients in hospital and the signficant amount of people who got it there, this is reasonable as you say. But it is the virus that causes a large number of people in hospital, not the lockdown. The lockdown has to do with closing pubs and the like, this reduces the transmission of the disease and so could benefit people who need to go to hospital. But people who have some financial interest in opening businesses use cancer patients an excuse when in fact they either are not connected or will in fact benefit from the lockdown.

It is the old story, get out a false narrative and rely on that to bring about your true objectives.

Quote from: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 08:09:54 PM
We have brought this virus back and flattened the curve and this was achieved without Masks or temp checks. What is happening now is politicians are moving away from data based science to lets convince everyone its safe to start going back to normal. Maybe they need to do that but I'd rather they would be honest about it instead of convincing fools that a mask will protect them.

That is the point. When everything was closed and people were not going on buses etc then masks were not needed. When things open up and people start moving around then they are needed.

On buses  subway perhaps. Out walking your dog or going to the shop no. I've been at work every day since this broke along with 300 others, no masks and 2 confirmed cases is all. Anything that endangers social distancing is not good
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on May 16, 2020, 10:16:46 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 09:26:52 PM
Jesus radio are you the only person with an opinion!
Idiot?
Really radio pull your horns in

Would ya stop the man has studied Stroud from top to bottom, his knowledge of exponential curves is unparalleled. That gives him full rights to call you or anyone who has an alternative opinion  a fuukin idiot, even medical experts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on May 16, 2020, 10:21:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 08:09:54 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 16, 2020, 05:06:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 02:31:33 PM
In the Bundesliga on tv at moment, players on field crashing into each other with no masks. Subs on bench, sit 2 meters apart but all have to wear masks. I think this shows the truth about masks, a gimmick to make us feel safe rather than be safe.
This is typical of this discussion board. Your coming out with this because of the view you had on people who wore masks at the start, that they were depriving front line NHS workers of masks. Which wasnt actually the case, but I understand why the government didn't want to tell people to wear them until they had their supply chain sorted. Your doubling down now. The evidence is irrefutable that they prevent  spread. Posters have tried to explain to you why that is, but you have chose to ignore that rather than admit you may have got it wrong. Your saying that it is a gimmick while at the same time I bet you cough in to your sleeve or elbow and away from people? Do you not see the contradiction there?

I have been consistent on this and the advise coming from the experts in this country was also consistent up until last week. Masks have a place, for front line workers and on busy subways etc. However they also give people a false sense of security causing them to relax social distancing. I don't recall the Irish government once mentioning Mask supply chain as a reason not wear them. You will see masks being fidgeted with and adjusted. Tell me if they are so key a protector why are so many health care workers getting infected? I suppose yuo believe that temp checks at airports will be an effective means to stop infection across borders too.

We have brought this virus back and flattened the curve and this was achieved without Masks or temp checks. What is happening now is politicians are moving away from data based science to lets convince everyone its safe to start going back to normal. Maybe they need to do that but I'd rather they would be honest about it instead of convincing fools that a mask will protect them.

Can you return to my previous post, do you think there is any point German players sitting on the subs bench 2m apart should be wearing masks. If you think it is sensible maybe you could explain why. If you think it is not sensible maybe you could hazard a guess at why they were asked to wear them?
I do think it is sensible. I think it's a relatively  low expense  precaution  to help prevent spread. I take your point that the players in the pitch do not have the same precautions, but the work place is a needs must in many ways. Same as my own workplace . I'll leave it to others to judge whether the Bundesliga should be back playing, but that decision ultimately had buy in from all the relevant stake holders.
Btw the way you haven't answered my question on the coughing in to the elbow/sleeve. If you deem this necessary why would a mask not be a sufficient step above that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: naka on May 16, 2020, 10:32:10 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 09:00:45 PM
Quote from: naka on May 16, 2020, 06:30:02 PM
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/05/15/we-could-open-up-again-and-forget-the-whole-thing/
Interesting alternative view

That guys a fuckin' idiot. Ignore it.

All his bullshit and blathering stops when you look at a case mortality rate of >10% in Lombardy.

His shares are probably nosediving.
Chuckling his shares might be nose diving
My business is at car crash level with 56 employees
Ohh and I have a personal guarantee that might just wipe my house out too
We really fked up the economy
The gmfall out night actually be worse
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on May 16, 2020, 10:35:53 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 08:51:39 PM
What about Georgia in America? Cases gone down in 3 weeks? Everyone telling them including myself it was mad
I don't mean to be rude but your a f**king a idiot
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 10:48:21 PM
f**k sorry to hear that naka
Stick at it buddy stick at it
Keep the head
Hi mucker can you explain?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 16, 2020, 11:19:36 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 08:51:39 PM
What about Georgia in America? Cases gone down in 3 weeks? Everyone telling them including myself it was mad

I'd give it another couple of weeks before declaring victory there, their curve is fairly flat, albeit slightly downwards, in terms of deaths and new cases. The virus has an incubation period of up to two weeks, while serious illness often takes a week or so to develop after first symptoms.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/georgia-coronavirus-cases.html#map (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/georgia-coronavirus-cases.html#map)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 11:39:56 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 09:26:52 PM
Jesus radio are you the only person with an opinion!
Idiot?
Really radio pull your horns in

No doubt yer telling people outside of the board its all a load of crap and someday, someone, somewhere might do something stupid based off talking to you.

Obviously posting up information over the past few months hasn't got through your skull - so maybe calling you a fukkin idiot will.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 11:41:26 PM
Quote from: Rudi on May 16, 2020, 10:16:46 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 16, 2020, 09:26:52 PM
Jesus radio are you the only person with an opinion!
Idiot?
Really radio pull your horns in

Would ya stop the man has studied Stroud from top to bottom, his knowledge of exponential curves is unparalleled. That gives him full rights to call you or anyone who has an alternative opinion  a fuukin idiot, even medical experts.

Sure your the clown that posted this up:

QuotePeoples immune systems will become compromised greatly by all this hand washing,  wearing of masks and social distancing in general.

I've seen 10 year olds with better understand of immune systems than that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 11:46:27 PM
Quote from: naka on May 16, 2020, 10:32:10 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 16, 2020, 09:00:45 PM
Quote from: naka on May 16, 2020, 06:30:02 PM
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/05/15/we-could-open-up-again-and-forget-the-whole-thing/
Interesting alternative view

That guys a fuckin' idiot. Ignore it.

All his bullshit and blathering stops when you look at a case mortality rate of >10% in Lombardy.

His shares are probably nosediving.
Chuckling his shares might be nose diving
My business is at car crash level with 56 employees
Ohh and I have a personal guarantee that might just wipe my house out too
We really fked up the economy
The gmfall out night actually be worse

I'm not in a great place either... facing a bit of a nightmare come the close of this year if this keeps going. It'd need a miracle for me not to be financially fucked 'cos of all this.

But while its grim, and hard to see it sometimes, at the end of the day, it is just money. Houses, savings and careers can be rebuilt. Lost lives cannot.

Hence why I was really pissed at them not taking the problem serious in February - and obviously not understanding the scale of the problem. If they done it right then you might be approaching an Australia/NZ position - where the internal economy could be up and running, but international visitors are strictly quarantined.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on May 17, 2020, 12:12:13 AM
Good luck to you GaaGaa and Naka its tough times from so many angles
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 17, 2020, 10:26:25 AM
Whilst we don't agree on most things Radio I genuinely wish you very well and hope things work out for you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 17, 2020, 11:54:14 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 15, 2020, 01:00:25 PM
Maroon the official ONS twitter page this morning. Deaths dropped below 5 year average. Go check it out if you don't believe me

Had a good luck twice and can't see that stat.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 17, 2020, 01:08:13 PM
Me too and looked through their stats. The average was down up to week 12 before the corona virus surge but weekly death totals have been thousands above average since then up to may 1st. (For wales and England) . That's the last data they have. Ni only looks to have to end of March and haven't looked at Scotland.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 17, 2020, 01:19:58 PM
Smurf is right while everyone else is wrong.
He's getting his facts straight from Karen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 17, 2020, 01:31:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 17, 2020, 01:19:58 PM
Smurf is right while everyone else is wrong.
He's getting his facts straight from Karen.

I don't understand this. It's a discussion board. What would you suggest he do? Agree with everyone? If you don't like or even understand the concept then you can leave.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on May 17, 2020, 01:43:07 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on May 16, 2020, 12:27:19 AM
Sorry cant copy and paste from this sh1t phone but karol sikora 13h ago posted deaths per day had actually fell below the 5yr average and posted link to the research hope we are talking about same thing if not apologies

Not sayin i agree with all Smurfy is saying lads but search yer man Sikoras posts on twitter from Friday i think it was at this stage..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on May 17, 2020, 01:48:12 PM
https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora/status/1261226417938993152

is this any help?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 17, 2020, 01:54:32 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on May 17, 2020, 01:48:12 PM
https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora/status/1261226417938993152

is this any help?

This is a very limited statement. It states that deaths per day are a certain level before all the delayed reports come in. It does not state that deaths in the month of April are lower.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on May 17, 2020, 02:23:16 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2020, 01:31:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 17, 2020, 01:19:58 PM
Smurf is right while everyone else is wrong.
He's getting his facts straight from Karen.

I don't understand this. It's a discussion board. What would you suggest he do? Agree with everyone? If you don't like or even understand the concept then you can leave.

Discussion involves at least a minimal attempt to entertain and dissect the merits of all arguments put forward. There is little evidence of that from Smurfy and a few like minded types on this thread over the last few months.

Instead, their approach seems to have been to avoid any genuine deliberation on ideas or information, in favour of a scattergun volley of misunderstood and misrepresented stats and titbits gleaned from a multitude of less than reliable sources.

It's all in very bad faith, and very like the climate change or anti-vaxxer 'debate'. Ignore discussion of core issues, because the evidence is overwhelmingly against them in this area, and instead throw out tangential trivia until you hit on something that can not be immediately explained. The failure to immediately explain away this usually inconsequential detail is then used as justification to rubbish the entire body of understanding of an issue, and a weird sort of victory is claimed.

The recent mentions of COVID-19 case incidence in Georgia, or of cancer death rates are both prime examples. Misunderstood, misrepresented, and tangential (or just completely irrelevant) to what was being discussed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 17, 2020, 03:14:17 PM
Ed we were talking about lifting lockdown when someone said about if we lift it we will most certainly get a second wave. I used Georgia as an example that it has not happened. They lifted lockdown over 3 weeks ago and the media were all over it but things a slowly went down instead of going up which many predicted. I was stating a fact ok. Unlike you and some others that seem to think you know it all. I have an opinion on things and just because it's not the opinion like yours you don't like it
Grow up Ed will you
Grow up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 17, 2020, 04:04:15 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 17, 2020, 03:14:17 PM
Ed we were talking about lifting lockdown when someone said about if we lift it we will most certainly get a second wave. I used Georgia as an example that it has not happened. They lifted lockdown over 3 weeks ago and the media were all over it but things a slowly went down instead of going up which many predicted. I was stating a fact ok. Unlike you and some others that seem to think you know it all. I have an opinion on things and just because it's not the opinion like yours you don't like it
Grow up Ed will you
Grow up

It's simply too early to say Georgia got away with it or that the easing of restrictions will not have an effect.

Hopefully it won't, both for their sake and the implications for the rest of us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 17, 2020, 04:11:53 PM
Yes maybe to early but I was only stating that numbers had gone down when many anticipated them to sky rocket
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 17, 2020, 04:14:22 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 17, 2020, 03:14:17 PM
Ed we were talking about lifting lockdown when someone said about if we lift it we will most certainly get a second wave. I used Georgia as an example that it has not happened. They lifted lockdown over 3 weeks ago and the media were all over it but things a slowly went down instead of going up which many predicted. I was stating a fact ok. Unlike you and some others that seem to think you know it all. I have an opinion on things and just because it's not the opinion like yours you don't like it
Grow up Ed will you
Grow up

That's the second person you have told to grow up. I would suggest it's you, who keeps bringing misunderstood or misinterpreted things to a debate and then getting called out on it ,is the one who would need to grow up most.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 17, 2020, 04:30:24 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 17, 2020, 04:11:53 PM
Yes maybe to early but I was only stating that numbers had gone down when many anticipated them to sky rocket

It's takes time for the virus to spread, become infectious and cause hospitalizations.

I don't anyone was saying it would skyrocket on week 1.

It would be interesting to know just how back to normal Georgia really is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on May 17, 2020, 04:42:16 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 16, 2020, 10:21:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 08:09:54 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 16, 2020, 05:06:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 02:31:33 PM
In the Bundesliga on tv at moment, players on field crashing into each other with no masks. Subs on bench, sit 2 meters apart but all have to wear masks. I think this shows the truth about masks, a gimmick to make us feel safe rather than be safe.
This is typical of this discussion board. Your coming out with this because of the view you had on people who wore masks at the start, that they were depriving front line NHS workers of masks. Which wasnt actually the case, but I understand why the government didn't want to tell people to wear them until they had their supply chain sorted. Your doubling down now. The evidence is irrefutable that they prevent  spread. Posters have tried to explain to you why that is, but you have chose to ignore that rather than admit you may have got it wrong. Your saying that it is a gimmick while at the same time I bet you cough in to your sleeve or elbow and away from people? Do you not see the contradiction there?

I have been consistent on this and the advise coming from the experts in this country was also consistent up until last week. Masks have a place, for front line workers and on busy subways etc. However they also give people a false sense of security causing them to relax social distancing. I don't recall the Irish government once mentioning Mask supply chain as a reason not wear them. You will see masks being fidgeted with and adjusted. Tell me if they are so key a protector why are so many health care workers getting infected? I suppose yuo believe that temp checks at airports will be an effective means to stop infection across borders too.

We have brought this virus back and flattened the curve and this was achieved without Masks or temp checks. What is happening now is politicians are moving away from data based science to lets convince everyone its safe to start going back to normal. Maybe they need to do that but I'd rather they would be honest about it instead of convincing fools that a mask will protect them.

Can you return to my previous post, do you think there is any point German players sitting on the subs bench 2m apart should be wearing masks. If you think it is sensible maybe you could explain why. If you think it is not sensible maybe you could hazard a guess at why they were asked to wear them?
I do think it is sensible. I think it's a relatively  low expense  precaution  to help prevent spread. I take your point that the players in the pitch do not have the same precautions, but the work place is a needs must in many ways. Same as my own workplace . I'll leave it to others to judge whether the Bundesliga should be back playing, but that decision ultimately had buy in from all the relevant stake holders.
Btw the way you haven't answered my question on the coughing in to the elbow/sleeve. If you deem this necessary why would a mask not be a sufficient step above that?

OK. The company I work is American, we are in the process of having inflicted on us compolsory mask wearing because some people in corporate (I might add, with zero factory experience) have decided this is what we will do. We are not alone, seems the way all the big US multinationals are going. We rolled out a pilot and here are the findings of it.
from the people wearing them...
- Masks are uncomfortable, have to keep fidgeting with them.
- Masks make us itch, have to reach under and scratch.
- We took them off as they were too hot
- We took them off as moisture was building up under them.

The observations of management were that initially people started encroaching into the 2m social distance zone as they felt a degree of extra protection. This in spite of us telling them over and over again that social distancing must be maintained with the mask.

So the feedback from the people wearing them means that with a mask, people are bringing their hands into contact with a zone protecting droplet more frequently than if they werent wearing on at all. You dont get that sneezing into your elbow.

Up until last week the expert advise to the Irish government said the same.

Here is what the WHO says (ie a group solely interested in public health)

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks



So they have a place obviously but that place is not every Tom, Dick and Harry wearing one when they walk their dog.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 17, 2020, 04:46:15 PM
Week 1? Georgia are now over 3 weeks open. And numbers are going down. Denmark ended lockdown on April 15 and had no new cases on Thursday
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on May 17, 2020, 05:52:24 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 17, 2020, 04:46:15 PM
Week 1? Georgia are now over 3 weeks open. And numbers are going down. Denmark ended lockdown on April 15 and had no new cases on Thursday

That's not true , Denmark have new cases everyday .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on May 17, 2020, 06:16:14 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on May 17, 2020, 05:52:24 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 17, 2020, 04:46:15 PM
Week 1? Georgia are now over 3 weeks open. And numbers are going down. Denmark ended lockdown on April 15 and had no new cases on Thursday

That's not true , Denmark have new cases everyday .

No one died of Covid-19 in Denmark on Thursday. There were cases of Covid 19 confirmed on the day
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 17, 2020, 06:23:26 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 17, 2020, 04:46:15 PM
Week 1? Georgia are now over 3 weeks open. And numbers are going down. Denmark ended lockdown on April 15 and had no new cases on Thursday

You misunderstood me, possibly my own fault.

You said some were predicting numbers would skyrocket in Georgia. My point is that I seriously doubt anyone thought we'd see it skyrocketing straight away. Yes, it's three weeks. But as I've already said, it takes time to transmit the disease; it takes additional time for infections to develop. After initial symptoms, it can take a week or so for it to progress to the point where hospitalization is necessary.

Even if numbers were to skyrocket, it's still early.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on May 17, 2020, 07:09:30 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 17, 2020, 06:16:14 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on May 17, 2020, 05:52:24 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 17, 2020, 04:46:15 PM
Week 1? Georgia are now over 3 weeks open. And numbers are going down. Denmark ended lockdown on April 15 and had no new cases on Thursday

That's not true , Denmark have new cases everyday .

No one died of Covid-19 in Denmark on Thursday. There were cases of Covid 19 confirmed on the day

He said cases not deaths though and there have been deaths since also .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on May 17, 2020, 07:22:30 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on May 17, 2020, 07:09:30 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 17, 2020, 06:16:14 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on May 17, 2020, 05:52:24 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 17, 2020, 04:46:15 PM
Week 1? Georgia are now over 3 weeks open. And numbers are going down. Denmark ended lockdown on April 15 and had no new cases on Thursday

That's not true , Denmark have new cases everyday .

No one died of Covid-19 in Denmark on Thursday. There were cases of Covid 19 confirmed on the day

He said cases not deaths though and there have been deaths since also .

I agree. Just pointing out his error. I think Smurfy must be doing the stats for the Russians as well. Their published Covid-19 death figures are farcical and unbelievable
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 17, 2020, 07:37:46 PM
Just saw a tweet on Georgia and how they had to apologise for the misrepresentation of the data on their graphs. They've been messing with the dates on the x axis of their graphs and it was making it look more like downward trends that it really was.

https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/just-cuckoo-state-latest-data-mishap-causes-critics-cry-foul/182PpUvUX9XEF8vO11NVGO/ (https://www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/just-cuckoo-state-latest-data-mishap-causes-critics-cry-foul/182PpUvUX9XEF8vO11NVGO/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 17, 2020, 07:48:16 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 17, 2020, 07:22:30 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on May 17, 2020, 07:09:30 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 17, 2020, 06:16:14 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on May 17, 2020, 05:52:24 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 17, 2020, 04:46:15 PM
Week 1? Georgia are now over 3 weeks open. And numbers are going down. Denmark ended lockdown on April 15 and had no new cases on Thursday

That's not true , Denmark have new cases everyday .

No one died of Covid-19 in Denmark on Thursday. There were cases of Covid 19 confirmed on the day

He said cases not deaths though and there have been deaths since also .

I agree. Just pointing out his error. I think Smurfy must be doing the stats for the Russians as well. Their published Covid-19 death figures are farcical and unbelievable

Yes does any believe Russia with 281,752 cases only has 2,631 deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on May 17, 2020, 08:20:44 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 17, 2020, 02:23:16 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2020, 01:31:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 17, 2020, 01:19:58 PM
Smurf is right while everyone else is wrong.
He's getting his facts straight from Karen.

I don't understand this. It's a discussion board. What would you suggest he do? Agree with everyone? If you don't like or even understand the concept then you can leave.

Discussion involves at least a minimal attempt to entertain and dissect the merits of all arguments put forward. There is little evidence of that from Smurfy and a few like minded types on this thread over the last few months.

Instead, their approach seems to have been to avoid any genuine deliberation on ideas or information, in favour of a scattergun volley of misunderstood and misrepresented stats and titbits gleaned from a multitude of less than reliable sources.

It's all in very bad faith, and very like the climate change or anti-vaxxer 'debate'. Ignore discussion of core issues, because the evidence is overwhelmingly against them in this area, and instead throw out tangential trivia until you hit on something that can not be immediately explained. The failure to immediately explain away this usually inconsequential detail is then used as justification to rubbish the entire body of understanding of an issue, and a weird sort of victory is claimed.

The recent mentions of COVID-19 case incidence in Georgia, or of cancer death rates are both prime examples. Misunderstood, misrepresented, and tangential (or just completely irrelevant) to what was being discussed.
Spot on, and succinctly put
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on May 17, 2020, 08:55:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 17, 2020, 04:42:16 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 16, 2020, 10:21:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 08:09:54 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 16, 2020, 05:06:13 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 16, 2020, 02:31:33 PM
In the Bundesliga on tv at moment, players on field crashing into each other with no masks. Subs on bench, sit 2 meters apart but all have to wear masks. I think this shows the truth about masks, a gimmick to make us feel safe rather than be safe.
This is typical of this discussion board. Your coming out with this because of the view you had on people who wore masks at the start, that they were depriving front line NHS workers of masks. Which wasnt actually the case, but I understand why the government didn't want to tell people to wear them until they had their supply chain sorted. Your doubling down now. The evidence is irrefutable that they prevent  spread. Posters have tried to explain to you why that is, but you have chose to ignore that rather than admit you may have got it wrong. Your saying that it is a gimmick while at the same time I bet you cough in to your sleeve or elbow and away from people? Do you not see the contradiction there?

I have been consistent on this and the advise coming from the experts in this country was also consistent up until last week. Masks have a place, for front line workers and on busy subways etc. However they also give people a false sense of security causing them to relax social distancing. I don't recall the Irish government once mentioning Mask supply chain as a reason not wear them. You will see masks being fidgeted with and adjusted. Tell me if they are so key a protector why are so many health care workers getting infected? I suppose yuo believe that temp checks at airports will be an effective means to stop infection across borders too.

We have brought this virus back and flattened the curve and this was achieved without Masks or temp checks. What is happening now is politicians are moving away from data based science to lets convince everyone its safe to start going back to normal. Maybe they need to do that but I'd rather they would be honest about it instead of convincing fools that a mask will protect them.

Can you return to my previous post, do you think there is any point German players sitting on the subs bench 2m apart should be wearing masks. If you think it is sensible maybe you could explain why. If you think it is not sensible maybe you could hazard a guess at why they were asked to wear them?
I do think it is sensible. I think it's a relatively  low expense  precaution  to help prevent spread. I take your point that the players in the pitch do not have the same precautions, but the work place is a needs must in many ways. Same as my own workplace . I'll leave it to others to judge whether the Bundesliga should be back playing, but that decision ultimately had buy in from all the relevant stake holders.
Btw the way you haven't answered my question on the coughing in to the elbow/sleeve. If you deem this necessary why would a mask not be a sufficient step above that?

OK. The company I work is American, we are in the process of having inflicted on us compolsory mask wearing because some people in corporate (I might add, with zero factory experience) have decided this is what we will do. We are not alone, seems the way all the big US multinationals are going. We rolled out a pilot and here are the findings of it.
from the people wearing them...
- Masks are uncomfortable, have to keep fidgeting with them.
- Masks make us itch, have to reach under and scratch.
- We took them off as they were too hot
- We took them off as moisture was building up under them.

The observations of management were that initially people started encroaching into the 2m social distance zone as they felt a degree of extra protection. This in spite of us telling them over and over again that social distancing must be maintained with the mask.

So the feedback from the people wearing them means that with a mask, people are bringing their hands into contact with a zone protecting droplet more frequently than if they werent wearing on at all. You dont get that sneezing into your elbow.

Up until last week the expert advise to the Irish government said the same.

Here is what the WHO says (ie a group solely interested in public health)

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks



  • If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with COVID-19.
    Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
    Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
    If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.

So they have a place obviously but that place is not every Tom, Dick and Harry wearing one when they walk their dog.
Itchy, I fully agree with you. There will be certain work place environments that the use of masks  will not be practical. If it's a case that it causes people to breach social distancing then I would agree it would seem impractical. My own work would be the same with noise of machines on the floor. The 2m is already tough without adding a mask to hinder hearing someone even more. The advantages and disadvantages for each workplace would need to be weighed up. I would suggest from my own experience that some of the cheaper ones are extremely uncomfortable if you have to wear all day. But you can get very good n95 masks, that I have used all day with little issues. Check out MSC supplies if your having issues and don't mind paying a wee bit more for a bit of comfort for yourself.  I am by no means arguing that using masks is a panacea. I'm merely saying it would be practical for the general public to use them when out shopping etc and that the evidence would suggest that it greatly prohibits the spread of the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 17, 2020, 08:59:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 17, 2020, 07:48:16 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 17, 2020, 07:22:30 PM
I agree. Just pointing out his error. I think Smurfy must be doing the stats for the Russians as well. Their published Covid-19 death figures are farcical and unbelievable
Yes does any believe Russia with 281,752 cases only has 2,631 deaths.

Yet if you look at the Russian overall (including non-covid) death toll compared to the 5 year average, its miles above.

Hard for Vlad to hide that.


[from someone who thought he'd make a good hard decision to get involved early and nip it in the bud... but didn't do a thing beyond closing borders. While that's a good start, you need belt and braces for this.]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on May 17, 2020, 09:26:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 17, 2020, 08:59:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 17, 2020, 07:48:16 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 17, 2020, 07:22:30 PM
I agree. Just pointing out his error. I think Smurfy must be doing the stats for the Russians as well. Their published Covid-19 death figures are farcical and unbelievable
Yes does any believe Russia with 281,752 cases only has 2,631 deaths.

Yet if you look at the Russian overall (including non-covid) death toll compared to the 5 year average, its miles above.

Hard for Vlad to hide that.


[from someone who thought he'd make a good hard decision to get involved early and nip it in the bud... but didn't do a thing beyond closing borders. While that's a good start, you need belt and braces for this.]
What's it at? Do you have a link by any chance?
Have to say I thought Russia would have faired well. I thought dictatorships in general would have faired better as it was easier to take decisive action. Only one person had to be convinced. Look at UAE. One in ten people tested. Locked the place down straight away. I am by no means advocating for dictatorships btw lol.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 17, 2020, 09:29:14 PM
And no cases at all in North Korea ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 17, 2020, 09:31:44 PM
I use this
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 17, 2020, 09:47:54 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 17, 2020, 09:26:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 17, 2020, 08:59:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 17, 2020, 07:48:16 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 17, 2020, 07:22:30 PM
I agree. Just pointing out his error. I think Smurfy must be doing the stats for the Russians as well. Their published Covid-19 death figures are farcical and unbelievable
Yes does any believe Russia with 281,752 cases only has 2,631 deaths.

Yet if you look at the Russian overall (including non-covid) death toll compared to the 5 year average, its miles above.

Hard for Vlad to hide that.


[from someone who thought he'd make a good hard decision to get involved early and nip it in the bud... but didn't do a thing beyond closing borders. While that's a good start, you need belt and braces for this.]
What's it at? Do you have a link by any chance?
Have to say I thought Russia would have faired well. I thought dictatorships in general would have faired better as it was easier to take decisive action. Only one person had to be convinced. Look at UAE. One in ten people tested. Locked the place down straight away. I am by no means advocating for dictatorships btw lol.

Regimes which run on rejection of objective truth as a central tenet of their existence were never going to fare well, because they couldn't help, well, denying the truth of the seriousness of this.

Russia, the US, the UK and Brazil are the four offenders in chief in this regard that we know about. I wouldn't bet much that India or Turkey are handling it much better or aren't engaging in flagrant cover ups.

China is a funny one. They obviously operate on denial of truth to a very large extent - and that's why this virus is a worldwide problem - because they denied the truth of the virus at first - but at the same time they do seem to have a commitment to cutting edge science and technology and a willingness to go all in on it when they decide they have to, which is why they seem to have been able to contain the problem in comparative terms anyway - though again I wouldn't bet a whole lot that there hasn't been a cover up to a greater or lesser degree.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on May 17, 2020, 09:56:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 17, 2020, 09:47:54 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 17, 2020, 09:26:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 17, 2020, 08:59:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 17, 2020, 07:48:16 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 17, 2020, 07:22:30 PM
I agree. Just pointing out his error. I think Smurfy must be doing the stats for the Russians as well. Their published Covid-19 death figures are farcical and unbelievable
Yes does any believe Russia with 281,752 cases only has 2,631 deaths.

Yet if you look at the Russian overall (including non-covid) death toll compared to the 5 year average, its miles above.

Hard for Vlad to hide that.


[from someone who thought he'd make a good hard decision to get involved early and nip it in the bud... but didn't do a thing beyond closing borders. While that's a good start, you need belt and braces for this.]
What's it at? Do you have a link by any chance?
Have to say I thought Russia would have faired well. I thought dictatorships in general would have faired better as it was easier to take decisive action. Only one person had to be convinced. Look at UAE. One in ten people tested. Locked the place down straight away. I am by no means advocating for dictatorships btw lol.

Regimes which run on rejection of objective truth as a central tenet of their existence were never going to fare well, because they couldn't help, well, denying the truth of the seriousness of this.

Russia, the US, the UK and Brazil are the four offenders in chief in this regard that we know about. I wouldn't bet much that India or Turkey are handling it much better or aren't engaging in flagrant cover ups.

China is a funny one. They obviously operate on denial of truth to a very large extent - and that's why this virus is a worldwide problem - because they denied the truth of the virus at first - but at the same time they do seem to have a commitment to cutting edge science and technology and a willingness to go all in on it when they decide they have to, which is why they seem to have been able to contain the problem in comparative terms anyway - though again I wouldn't bet a whole lot that there hasn't been a cover up to a greater or lesser degree.

I'd agree with this. China seems have implemented a lockdown on it's citizens that makes our lockdown look like a summer holiday.

In terms of their figures released I'd add at least one 0 on to any of their "confirmed" figures for cases/deaths. They're one of those countries that could make an entire village disappear and no one would find out about it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 17, 2020, 10:10:58 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on May 17, 2020, 09:26:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 17, 2020, 08:59:28 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 17, 2020, 07:48:16 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 17, 2020, 07:22:30 PM
I agree. Just pointing out his error. I think Smurfy must be doing the stats for the Russians as well. Their published Covid-19 death figures are farcical and unbelievable
Yes does any believe Russia with 281,752 cases only has 2,631 deaths.

Yet if you look at the Russian overall (including non-covid) death toll compared to the 5 year average, its miles above.

Hard for Vlad to hide that.


[from someone who thought he'd make a good hard decision to get involved early and nip it in the bud... but didn't do a thing beyond closing borders. While that's a good start, you need belt and braces for this.]
What's it at? Do you have a link by any chance?
Have to say I thought Russia would have faired well. I thought dictatorships in general would have faired better as it was easier to take decisive action. Only one person had to be convinced. Look at UAE. One in ten people tested. Locked the place down straight away. I am by no means advocating for dictatorships btw lol.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/05/10/moscow-sees-20-surge-in-mortality-in-april-official-data-a70235

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/11/world/europe/coronavirus-deaths-moscow.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/14/coronavirus-russia-defends-its-exceptionally-precise-covid-19-death-data

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 17, 2020, 10:38:10 PM
Throughout these unusual times, I've found it somewhere between puzzling and amazing, just how easily people can convince themselves that an accurate picture is available of what's happening in countries thousands of miles away, while remaining completely sceptical about the information released in the UK (and to some extent, Ireland)

Boris and co may well actually be an abomination, but how they use/control/bend the truth is far, far from unique in the world of politics.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 17, 2020, 10:53:46 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 17, 2020, 10:38:10 PM
Throughout these unusual times, I've found it somewhere between puzzling and amazing, just how easily people can convince themselves that an accurate picture is available of what's happening in countries thousands of miles away, while remaining completely sceptical about the information released in the UK (and to some extent, Ireland)

Erm, who has said that?


Are most not saying that the official numbers in some other places are farcical too?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 17, 2020, 11:09:56 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 17, 2020, 10:38:10 PM
Throughout these unusual times, I've found it somewhere between puzzling and amazing, just how easily people can convince themselves that an accurate picture is available of what's happening in countries thousands of miles away, while remaining completely sceptical about the information released in the UK (and to some extent, Ireland)

Boris and co may well actually be an abomination, but how they use/control/bend the truth is far, far from unique in the world of politics.
Who even needs to be sceptical of the figures released by the UK? The figures they themselves have released show they're making a complete bollix of things.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 17, 2020, 11:14:54 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 17, 2020, 10:53:46 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 17, 2020, 10:38:10 PM
Throughout these unusual times, I've found it somewhere between puzzling and amazing, just how easily people can convince themselves that an accurate picture is available of what's happening in countries thousands of miles away, while remaining completely sceptical about the information released in the UK (and to some extent, Ireland)

Erm, who has said that?


Are most not saying that the official numbers in some other places are farcical too?

I'm not going to go back through thousands of posts Radio, but a constant chime on this thread has been comparisons of Ireland/Uk with everywhere else.

I would think comparisons are mostly futile myself. It's like comparing teams from the 70s with modern teams.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 17, 2020, 11:17:51 PM
But just as a footnote, there does seem to be a desire to cling to figures from countries that are "performing well", as being more accurate.

Maybe they actually have knocked it out of the park.

As mentioned before, I reserve the right to be sceptical.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 17, 2020, 11:59:11 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 17, 2020, 11:17:51 PM
But just as a footnote, there does seem to be a desire to cling to figures from countries that are "performing well", as being more accurate.

You don't look toward the government published figures when drawing comparisons. Or if you do, you make sure that there isn't widespread complaints about the accuracy of them.

Verifying information can sometimes be fairly simple. Other times very hard.

Is Trump lying? Undoubtedly, there is a stream of figures and stats that show it.
Are the Chinese lying? Probably, but we've a devil of a time proving it.
Are the Germans lying? Unlikely, there isn't much data that contradicts the official line.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 18, 2020, 01:36:17 AM
The number of tests is a good help in assessing data, places with few tests don't have reliable numbers for cases and deaths. Places with lots of tests and few cases probably really don't have much infection.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 18, 2020, 08:35:04 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 17, 2020, 11:59:11 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 17, 2020, 11:17:51 PM
But just as a footnote, there does seem to be a desire to cling to figures from countries that are "performing well", as being more accurate.

You don't look toward the government published figures when drawing comparisons. Or if you do, you make sure that there isn't widespread complaints about the accuracy of them.

Verifying information can sometimes be fairly simple. Other times very hard.

Is Trump lying? Undoubtedly, there is a stream of figures and stats that show it.
Are the Chinese lying? Probably, but we've a devil of a time proving it.
Are the Germans lying? Unlikely, there isn't much data that contradicts the official line.

South Korea unlikely to be lying either.

The tories lie about everything so I don't think the UK can be trusted. Ireland should be better but like you say depends on number of tests.

Yeah number of tests is a big help.

We are in the era of "#fakenews" so yeah hard to know what to believe at times. I think that Georgia thing summed it up. You would tend to see a lot of messing with legends in graphs and representations on different axis these days to try and "obfuscate" data. (or lie)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 18, 2020, 08:46:26 AM
And just like that, 3 posts in a row along the lines of "why would Germans lie, why would Koreans lie? But them damned English, all they do is lie".

Look you're entitled to distrust the UK.

But your willingness to trust politicians from other countries is founded on racial stereotypes or confirmation bias. Not reality.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 09:43:26 AM
Wobbler talks a lot of sense
Time to start slowly getting things back to normal
Slow and steady
Teachers refusing to go back? What's that all about. Only 2 classes gradually getting kids back. You actually couldn't make it up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2020, 09:58:29 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 09:43:26 AM
Wobbler talks a lot of sense
Time to start slowly getting things back to normal
Slow and steady
Teachers refusing to go back? What's that all about. Only 2 classes gradually getting kids back. You actually couldn't make it up

P1 and P6's were the classes that were always going back first should schools go ahead. Not sure who doesn't want back work though? If its proved safe and we know that kids cant pass the virus on (which is bollox) then its safe for teachers to teach and not endanger their own family hen they leave work.

Can you tell me thats its defo safe?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 18, 2020, 09:59:23 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 09:43:26 AM
Wobbler talks a lot of shit
Fixed that for you
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 10:03:15 AM
Can you tell me my kids would have been safe in school before this?
You can not eliminate some kind of danger
Jesus that's life
I could walk out the door and get run over by an army tank
Highly unlikely but I can't 100% say I won't
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ambrose on May 18, 2020, 10:06:18 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 01, 2020, 11:53:38 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on April 01, 2020, 11:51:04 PM
Personally I hope the north has ten times more deaths than the south. Already the GB approach is coming in for criticism even from the Daily Telegraph and yet Arlene decided to blindly follow what they did. I'm listening to the advice I'm getting has been the standard response to this. Now where did I hear that before?

Wow. Just f**king wow.

Thankfully things haven't turned out to be as bad as Dr Death had hoped for.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2020, 10:09:59 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 10:03:15 AM
Can you tell me my kids would have been safe in school before this?
You can not eliminate some kind of danger
Jesus that's life
I could walk out the door and get run over by an army tank
Highly unlikely but I can't 100% say I won't

There was no danger going to school before this, are you saying its as safe to go to school now as it was before this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dougal Maguire on May 18, 2020, 10:10:24 AM
This poster, aka the notorious 5Times is now consistently using this unfortunate post that I quickly deleted, to try and goad me. I'd respectfully ask other contributors to treat this constant copying of the post with the contempt it deserves.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2020, 10:12:07 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on May 18, 2020, 10:10:24 AM
This poster, aka the notorious 5Times is now consistently using this unfortunate post that I quickly deleted, to try and goad me. I'd respectfully ask other contributors to treat this constant copying of the post with the contempt it deserves.

Don't bother, if everyone took things personal on here then it wouldn't be good for your mind state, no one really gives a shit
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 18, 2020, 10:16:32 AM
Quote from: Ambrose on May 18, 2020, 10:06:18 AM

Thankfully things haven't turned out to be as bad as Dr Death had hoped for.
Gerard Steenson posts here?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 10:16:36 AM
Yes I do think it's as safe now as before
Have you heard of any local kids down with Coronavirus?
Honestly have you
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2020, 10:19:24 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 10:16:36 AM
Yes I do think it's as safe now as before
Have you heard of any local kids down with Coronavirus?
Honestly have you

Have you heard they don't transfer the virus to other people? Why are kids immune to transferring the virus ?

Honestly, have you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 18, 2020, 10:21:40 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 10:16:36 AM
Yes I do think it's as safe now as before
Have you heard of any local kids down with Coronavirus?
Honestly have you

Local - no?

But would you be happy to have your kids exposed to any risk?

You do know kids have died from Covid.

What if a local kid died - would that change your stance?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 10:25:03 AM
Yes I would be happy with my kids going to school
When they go outside for a cycle do I worry? Yes I do. Do I stop them. No I don't
Lads it 2 classes of say 60 kids in total of a school that can hold say 300 people
If it was all kids back in together then I would say that madness
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2020, 10:28:47 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 10:25:03 AM
Yes I would be happy with my kids going to school
When they go outside for a cycle do I worry? Yes I do. Do I stop them. No I don't
Lads it 2 classes of say 60 kids in total of a school that can hold say 300 people
If it was all kids back in together then I would say that madness

So that's a no then? Kids don't transfer the virus? My wife is a teacher, goes to school and she is safe from contracting the virus from school kids? Can you put up a link for that? And not a post from Karen on FB please?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 18, 2020, 10:41:37 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 18, 2020, 08:46:26 AM
And just like that, 3 posts in a row along the lines of "why would Germans lie, why would Koreans lie? But them damned English, all they do is lie".

Look you're entitled to distrust the UK.

But your willingness to trust politicians from other countries is founded on racial stereotypes or confirmation bias. Not reality.

No. Read what I said.

Not what you want to think I said.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 18, 2020, 10:45:24 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on May 18, 2020, 10:10:24 AM
This poster, aka the notorious 5Times is now consistently using this unfortunate post that I quickly deleted, to try and goad me. I'd respectfully ask other contributors to treat this constant copying of the post with the contempt it deserves.
Have you said sorry for it? It was an appalling remark and you should be ashamed of it, even or especially as nobody here knows who you are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dougal Maguire on May 18, 2020, 10:52:07 AM
Yes I was absolutely ashamed which is why I deleted it quickly but this poster certainly won't let me forget it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 18, 2020, 10:54:44 AM
That's ok, and thank you. He should indeed let it go.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 18, 2020, 10:58:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2020, 10:28:47 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 10:25:03 AM
Yes I would be happy with my kids going to school
When they go outside for a cycle do I worry? Yes I do. Do I stop them. No I don't
Lads it 2 classes of say 60 kids in total of a school that can hold say 300 people
If it was all kids back in together then I would say that madness

So that's a no then? Kids don't transfer the virus? My wife is a teacher, goes to school and she is safe from contracting the virus from school kids? Can you put up a link for that? And not a post from Karen on FB please?

You, she and everyone else knows that there are never, ever any guarantees in life, yet life must go on. If we all insist on absolute guarantees of safety, everything grinds to a halt forever.

Maybe your wife should work in a Lidl store for a few weeks. There are thousands of people in and out of them every day but the staff seem to manage somehow.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 18, 2020, 10:58:35 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 18, 2020, 10:41:37 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 18, 2020, 08:46:26 AM
And just like that, 3 posts in a row along the lines of "why would Germans lie, why would Koreans lie? But them damned English, all they do is lie".

Look you're entitled to distrust the UK.

But your willingness to trust politicians from other countries is founded on racial stereotypes or confirmation bias. Not reality.


No. Read what I said.

Not what you want to think I said.


Are the Germans lying? Unlikely, there isn't much data that contradicts the official line.

That's what you said.

I'm not going to over explore this or presume I can read your inner mind.

But you must have confidence in the German data to make such a statement.

My point is that if you have confidence in the accuracy and integrity of other countrys' data then you are most likely suffering from confirmation bias or racial stereotyping, or maybe both.

It's exceptionally easy to dismiss UK data and statements, as we can all read them in our native tongue, and we all have a list of English speaking sources we trust and distrust. We do not have such a filter on data from any other country, with the exception of the USA, given we share a language and so much popular culture with them.

Of course such a statement will upset you. But it's true.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 18, 2020, 11:18:51 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 18, 2020, 10:58:35 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 18, 2020, 10:41:37 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 18, 2020, 08:46:26 AM
And just like that, 3 posts in a row along the lines of "why would Germans lie, why would Koreans lie? But them damned English, all they do is lie".

Look you're entitled to distrust the UK.

But your willingness to trust politicians from other countries is founded on racial stereotypes or confirmation bias. Not reality.


No. Read what I said.

Not what you want to think I said.


Are the Germans lying? Unlikely, there isn't much data that contradicts the official line.

That's what you said.

I'm not going to over explore this or presume I can read your inner mind.

But you must have confidence in the German data to make such a statement.

My point is that if you have confidence in the accuracy and integrity of other countrys' data then you are most likely suffering from confirmation bias or racial stereotyping, or maybe both.

It's exceptionally easy to dismiss UK data and statements, as we can all read them in our native tongue, and we all have a list of English speaking sources we trust and distrust. We do not have such a filter on data from any other country, with the exception of the USA, given we share a language and so much popular culture with them.

Of course such a statement will upset you. But it's true.

Emphasis on the bit in bold:

Are the Germans lying? Unlikely, there isn't much data that contradicts the official line.

That is why I have confidence in the German data. Not because of where it comes from. Not because of what language its in. But because of a large and wide volume of information that all more or less arrives at the same conclusion.


Go and try to find any half reputable source of information that even alleges the Germans are trying to hide numbers.
Go look at the German death rate in 2020 compared to the historical trends.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on May 18, 2020, 11:26:24 AM
Quote from: five points on May 18, 2020, 10:58:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2020, 10:28:47 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 10:25:03 AM
Yes I would be happy with my kids going to school
When they go outside for a cycle do I worry? Yes I do. Do I stop them. No I don't
Lads it 2 classes of say 60 kids in total of a school that can hold say 300 people
If it was all kids back in together then I would say that madness

So that's a no then? Kids don't transfer the virus? My wife is a teacher, goes to school and she is safe from contracting the virus from school kids? Can you put up a link for that? And not a post from Karen on FB please?

You, she and everyone else knows that there are never, ever any guarantees in life, yet life must go on. If we all insist on absolute guarantees of safety, everything grinds to a halt forever.

Maybe your wife should work in a Lidl store for a few weeks. There are thousands of people in and out of them every day but the staff seem to manage somehow.

I think a "grin and bear it" approach is insensitive. Ultimately we want everyone back to work but we need to maximise and contextualise all the scientific info available, to try to
Optimise safety in a pragmatic way.
I can understand teacher's concerns and though the virus is relatively very low risk for children themselves , adult teachers in the several vulnerable groupings eg ethnicity, obesity, diabetes should remain cocooned. Minimising cumulative viral
Load and spread can be achieved in many work settings but is a major challenge in schools.
Apart from the economic and educational benefit of "safe" return to school, for me there are compelling arguments in the context of social inequalities, and child protection.
We know that Home schooling appears to widen the social class educational gap, but crucially vulnerable children at least have a "safe place" In school, a window of protection , and also an opportunity for signs of abuse to be spotted by professionals.
I don't have comparative data but various forms of child abuse sadly remain a major issue for society , and the risks and concerns of return to school must be viewed in this protective context. It must also be noted  that other protective environments such as sports and other group activities, and social work input have also been reduced , whilst violence and alcohol consumption in the home appears to have increased. These are very real concerns and need to be taken into account when assessing the understandable concerns of reopening schools.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2020, 11:33:13 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2020, 10:28:47 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 10:25:03 AM
Yes I would be happy with my kids going to school
When they go outside for a cycle do I worry? Yes I do. Do I stop them. No I don't
Lads it 2 classes of say 60 kids in total of a school that can hold say 300 people
If it was all kids back in together then I would say that madness

So that's a no then? Kids don't transfer the virus? My wife is a teacher, goes to school and she is safe from contracting the virus from school kids? Can you put up a link for that? And not a post from Karen on FB please?

This isn't by Karen from FB, but instead is a series of tweets by an Epidemiologist, quoting several studies:

Summary: there is mounting evidence that children are as likely to be infected as adults; some children can experience severe illness.
First, a recap. Studies in this sub-thread provide evidence that some children can experience severe disease, can shed infectious virus, can likely infect others, and for the effectiveness of school closures.
There is growing evidence that children and adults are at equal risk of infection with the novel coronavirus. Some studies which have suggested otherwise have some important caveats.
This study from China found that children were less likely to be infected than adults in households. However, all household members were promptly quarantined away from their home when a case was detected.
In contrast, more recent studies show that in the absence of strict quarantine measures, children and adults seem to be at a similar risk.
Data from China showing no difference in the proportion of children and adults infected with the novel coronavirus.
Data from Switzerland showing no difference in the proportion of children and adults infected with the novel coronavirus.
Data from Germany showing no difference in the proportion of children and adults infected with the novel coronavirus.
Data from the UK showing no difference in the proportion of children and adults infected with the novel coronavirus.
We have also witnessed the emergence of a new Kawasaki-like illness (now called paediatric inflammatory multisystem syndrome - #PIMS) in children.
Data from the UK show that the Kawasaki-like illness affecting children likely results from infection with the novel coronavirus.
The incidence of Kawasaki-like illness in children has increased 30-fold in Bergamo, Italy.
It's very important to note that this syndrome appears to be rare. However, it does show that we don't yet fully understand all of the risks associated with the novel coronavirus.
While it now seems likely that children and adults are at equal risk of infection with the novel coronavirus, we don't yet know how readily children transmit the virus to others. Previous research (linked to at the start of this thread) has shown this is possible however.
In regions where there is ongoing community transmission of the novel coronavirus, the evidence suggests that reopening schools could increase the spread of the virus, both in the school and the wider community.
It would therefore seem sensible to first ascertain that the risk of community transmission is low (for example, by random testing of the population), before considering reopening schools.
If schools reopen in regions with a low risk of community transmission, measures should be taken to protect teachers and students. This could include wearing masks, rearranged seating, increased ventilation, and staggering of classes.

The thread can be seen here:
https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1261576137358012417
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 18, 2020, 11:44:08 AM
Also the tories and the media have decided that teachers are now the enemy because of this. The media decide who people get outraged at.

It's still not well understood at all. Schools IMO should be waiting a bit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 18, 2020, 11:51:33 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 17, 2020, 02:23:16 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 17, 2020, 01:31:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 17, 2020, 01:19:58 PM
Smurf is right while everyone else is wrong.
He's getting his facts straight from Karen.

I don't understand this. It's a discussion board. What would you suggest he do? Agree with everyone? If you don't like or even understand the concept then you can leave.

Discussion involves at least a minimal attempt to entertain and dissect the merits of all arguments put forward. There is little evidence of that from Smurfy and a few like minded types on this thread over the last few months.

Instead, their approach seems to have been to avoid any genuine deliberation on ideas or information, in favour of a scattergun volley of misunderstood and misrepresented stats and titbits gleaned from a multitude of less than reliable sources.

It's all in very bad faith, and very like the climate change or anti-vaxxer 'debate'. Ignore discussion of core issues, because the evidence is overwhelmingly against them in this area, and instead throw out tangential trivia until you hit on something that can not be immediately explained. The failure to immediately explain away this usually inconsequential detail is then used as justification to rubbish the entire body of understanding of an issue, and a weird sort of victory is claimed.

The recent mentions of COVID-19 case incidence in Georgia, or of cancer death rates are both prime examples. Misunderstood, misrepresented, and tangential (or just completely irrelevant) to what was being discussed.

There's a lot of stuff being peddled as facts. A fair bit of it has been proven wrong. A lot of these medical experts and scientific advisers have been shown up for what they are. I would be very sceptical of any information being peddled by the British Government. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 18, 2020, 12:01:55 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 17, 2020, 10:38:10 PM
Throughout these unusual times, I've found it somewhere between puzzling and amazing, just how easily people can convince themselves that an accurate picture is available of what's happening in countries thousands of miles away, while remaining completely sceptical about the information released in the UK (and to some extent, Ireland)

Boris and co may well actually be an abomination, but how they use/control/bend the truth is far, far from unique in the world of politics.

Totally agree. All the information we're getting from China, the WHO, US, and other nations is absolutely farcical.
Another thing I want to ask. Who actually trusts this R we keep hearing about? How do they know what it is? They haven't the slightest clue. Yet we keep hearing they are using it in decision making process. They may as well take info on the next high tide and full moon into the process for all the good it does.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2020, 12:08:06 PM
Quote from: five points on May 18, 2020, 10:58:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2020, 10:28:47 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 10:25:03 AM
Yes I would be happy with my kids going to school
When they go outside for a cycle do I worry? Yes I do. Do I stop them. No I don't
Lads it 2 classes of say 60 kids in total of a school that can hold say 300 people
If it was all kids back in together then I would say that madness

So that's a no then? Kids don't transfer the virus? My wife is a teacher, goes to school and she is safe from contracting the virus from school kids? Can you put up a link for that? And not a post from Karen on FB please?

You, she and everyone else knows that there are never, ever any guarantees in life, yet life must go on. If we all insist on absolute guarantees of safety, everything grinds to a halt forever.

Maybe your wife should work in a Lidl store for a few weeks. There are thousands of people in and out of them every day but the staff seem to manage somehow.

Maybe you should just let smurfy answer the question.

As for yours, my wife is working everyday as a teacher, and on call to cover kids in school, why she needs to get another job is beyond me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 18, 2020, 12:09:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2020, 11:51:33 AM
There's a lot of stuff being peddled as facts. A fair bit of it has been proven wrong. A lot of these medical experts and scientific advisers have been shown up for what they are. I would be very sceptical of any information being peddled by the British Government.

I absolutely agree with your last sentence.

The word of the British government isn't worth shit right now.

However, anyone in here that appears to be reasonably informed are getting their information from anywhere but the British government.


In terms of facts and facts being proven wrong. There are very few absolute facts here, quantitative facts especially - whereas qualitative facts are much more likely to be asserted and be correct. 99.999% of information presented anywhere on this is full of caveats and must be interpreted considering those caveats. There are some fundamentals about epidemics and viruses, but even many of those aren't inflexible to some degree.

Its not black and white, its mostly shades of grey. Unfortunately many people see a very dark shade of grey and then twist that to mean "off white".

For instance, certain folks are very against lockdown (for various reasons, some I can sympathise a lot with) - they then find a fringe case of where it may or may not work - then try to use that to say lockdown in its entirety doesn't work and is unnecessary.

[It should be noted that I'd think most would agree lockdown is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. The trick is finding out the right balance of measures that stop spread while enabling economic productivity.]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 18, 2020, 12:11:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2020, 12:01:55 PM
Totally agree. All the information we're getting from China, the WHO, US, and other nations is absolutely farcical.

All the information is not farcical. The representation of it by politicians and the media may well be farcical. 


QuoteAnother thing I want to ask. Who actually trusts this R we keep hearing about? How do they know what it is? They haven't the slightest clue. Yet we keep hearing they are using it in decision making process. They may as well take info on the next high tide and full moon into the process for all the good it does.

While they cannot calculate it precisely, of course they have  a good idea about it. If you get Covid19 and then they trace your contacts and see if they have Covid19.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 18, 2020, 12:26:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 18, 2020, 12:11:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2020, 12:01:55 PM
Totally agree. All the information we're getting from China, the WHO, US, and other nations is absolutely farcical.

All the information is not farcical. The representation of it by politicians and the media may well be farcical. 


QuoteAnother thing I want to ask. Who actually trusts this R we keep hearing about? How do they know what it is? They haven't the slightest clue. Yet we keep hearing they are using it in decision making process. They may as well take info on the next high tide and full moon into the process for all the good it does.

While they cannot calculate it precisely, of course they have  a good idea about it. If you get Covid19 and then they trace your contacts and see if they have Covid19.

Listen the R number is based on information from almost 2 weeks ago. So whatever the R number that they're holding up as fact is actually their best guess of the R 2 weeks ago. It's bullshit theatre to divert from the fact that the scientists and medical advisers do not know what is going on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 12:30:55 PM
Trailer knows his stuff. Like he says don't believe these scientists advising the uk government
Now after 8 weeks they add that a loss of smell and taste is added the the Covid symptoms
You actually could not make it up
They have come out of this very poorly
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 18, 2020, 12:32:25 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 12:30:55 PM
Trailer knows his stuff. Like he says don't believe these scientists advising the uk government
Now after 8 weeks they add that a loss of smell and taste is added the the Covid symptoms
You actually could not make it up
They have come out of this very poorly

The loss of smell and taste has been a confirmed symptom for two months.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 12:36:28 PM
No they haven't
Everyone knew they were symptoms except the uk advisors
They were officially added to the list this morning
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 18, 2020, 12:39:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 18, 2020, 12:32:25 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 12:30:55 PM
Trailer knows his stuff. Like he says don't believe these scientists advising the uk government
Now after 8 weeks they add that a loss of smell and taste is added the the Covid symptoms
You actually could not make it up
They have come out of this very poorly

The loss of smell and taste has been a confirmed symptom for two months.

No mention of loss of taste on HSE Symptoms of coronavirus guidance, Last updated: 7 May 2020
Loss of smell only mentioned as if as an afterthought in comparison to hayfever. It is not included in the list of common symptoms.

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/symptoms.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw5Ij2BRBdEiwA0Frc9RshOYwTXFvBGTR8Z7vPRldykqdVL_VeXuZkQ8jWLYUOG1mjIrePiRoC6GAQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 18, 2020, 01:07:45 PM
Quote from: five points on May 18, 2020, 12:39:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 18, 2020, 12:32:25 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 12:30:55 PM
Trailer knows his stuff. Like he says don't believe these scientists advising the uk government
Now after 8 weeks they add that a loss of smell and taste is added the the Covid symptoms
You actually could not make it up
They have come out of this very poorly

The loss of smell and taste has been a confirmed symptom for two months.

No mention of loss of taste on HSE Symptoms of coronavirus guidance, Last updated: 7 May 2020
Loss of smell only mentioned as if as an afterthought in comparison to hayfever. It is not included in the list of common symptoms.

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/symptoms.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw5Ij2BRBdEiwA0Frc9RshOYwTXFvBGTR8Z7vPRldykqdVL_VeXuZkQ8jWLYUOG1mjIrePiRoC6GAQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Its been an acknowledged and well advertised symptom in the US since March. CDC put it on their updated list of symptoms in April. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/symptoms.html (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/symptoms.html)

I don't know what the HSE are up to if they missed something so basic as that for their guidance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 18, 2020, 01:13:56 PM
Why don't we ask Karen or Tracy?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 18, 2020, 01:14:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 18, 2020, 01:07:45 PM
Quote from: five points on May 18, 2020, 12:39:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 18, 2020, 12:32:25 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 12:30:55 PM
Trailer knows his stuff. Like he says don't believe these scientists advising the uk government
Now after 8 weeks they add that a loss of smell and taste is added the the Covid symptoms
You actually could not make it up
They have come out of this very poorly

The loss of smell and taste has been a confirmed symptom for two months.

No mention of loss of taste on HSE Symptoms of coronavirus guidance, Last updated: 7 May 2020
Loss of smell only mentioned as if as an afterthought in comparison to hayfever. It is not included in the list of common symptoms.

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/symptoms.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw5Ij2BRBdEiwA0Frc9RshOYwTXFvBGTR8Z7vPRldykqdVL_VeXuZkQ8jWLYUOG1mjIrePiRoC6GAQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Its been an acknowledged and well advertised symptom in the US since March. CDC put it on their updated list of symptoms in April. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/symptoms.html (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/symptoms.html)

I don't know what the HSE are up to if they missed something so basic as that for their guidance.

Ditto the NHS.

https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-52638382
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on May 18, 2020, 01:14:44 PM
Rossfan is obsessed with Karen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 18, 2020, 01:22:14 PM
Quote from: laoislad on May 18, 2020, 01:14:44 PM
Rossfan is obsessed with Karen.

In fairness she seems to be the font of all knowledge for some posters here
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 18, 2020, 01:26:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 18, 2020, 01:13:56 PM
Why don't we ask Karen or Tracy?

Says you with 16200 posts. Not like you're short of an opinion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 18, 2020, 01:34:43 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2020, 01:26:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 18, 2020, 01:13:56 PM
Why don't we ask Karen or Tracy?

Says you with 16200 posts. Not like you're short of an opinion.

15,467 posts mention karen
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 18, 2020, 01:48:11 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 18, 2020, 01:34:43 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2020, 01:26:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 18, 2020, 01:13:56 PM
Why don't we ask Karen or Tracy?

Says you with 16200 posts. Not like you're short of an opinion.

15,467 posts mention karen

I know. The man's not wise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 01:49:21 PM
Rossfan trying to be funny with the Karen joke
Jesus let it go man
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 18, 2020, 02:28:30 PM
I'm torn between Karen, Smurfy and Trailer as to which can worst guide me through this pandemic.
Meanwhile I'll follow the HSE/Dept of Health advice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 18, 2020, 02:33:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 18, 2020, 02:28:30 PM
I'm torn between Karen, Smurfy and Trailer as to which can worst guide me through this pandemic.
Meanwhile I'll follow the HSE/Dept of Health advice.

You sound like you're deadly craic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2020, 02:40:27 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2020, 11:33:13 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2020, 10:28:47 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 10:25:03 AM
Yes I would be happy with my kids going to school
When they go outside for a cycle do I worry? Yes I do. Do I stop them. No I don't
Lads it 2 classes of say 60 kids in total of a school that can hold say 300 people
If it was all kids back in together then I would say that madness

So that's a no then? Kids don't transfer the virus? My wife is a teacher, goes to school and she is safe from contracting the virus from school kids? Can you put up a link for that? And not a post from Karen on FB please?

This isn't by Karen from FB, but instead is a series of tweets by an Epidemiologist, quoting several studies:

Summary: there is mounting evidence that children are as likely to be infected as adults; some children can experience severe illness.
First, a recap. Studies in this sub-thread provide evidence that some children can experience severe disease, can shed infectious virus, can likely infect others, and for the effectiveness of school closures.
There is growing evidence that children and adults are at equal risk of infection with the novel coronavirus. Some studies which have suggested otherwise have some important caveats.
This study from China found that children were less likely to be infected than adults in households. However, all household members were promptly quarantined away from their home when a case was detected.
In contrast, more recent studies show that in the absence of strict quarantine measures, children and adults seem to be at a similar risk.
Data from China showing no difference in the proportion of children and adults infected with the novel coronavirus.
Data from Switzerland showing no difference in the proportion of children and adults infected with the novel coronavirus.
Data from Germany showing no difference in the proportion of children and adults infected with the novel coronavirus.
Data from the UK showing no difference in the proportion of children and adults infected with the novel coronavirus.
We have also witnessed the emergence of a new Kawasaki-like illness (now called paediatric inflammatory multisystem syndrome - #PIMS) in children.
Data from the UK show that the Kawasaki-like illness affecting children likely results from infection with the novel coronavirus.
The incidence of Kawasaki-like illness in children has increased 30-fold in Bergamo, Italy.
It's very important to note that this syndrome appears to be rare. However, it does show that we don't yet fully understand all of the risks associated with the novel coronavirus.
While it now seems likely that children and adults are at equal risk of infection with the novel coronavirus, we don't yet know how readily children transmit the virus to others. Previous research (linked to at the start of this thread) has shown this is possible however.
In regions where there is ongoing community transmission of the novel coronavirus, the evidence suggests that reopening schools could increase the spread of the virus, both in the school and the wider community.
It would therefore seem sensible to first ascertain that the risk of community transmission is low (for example, by random testing of the population), before considering reopening schools.
If schools reopen in regions with a low risk of community transmission, measures should be taken to protect teachers and students. This could include wearing masks, rearranged seating, increased ventilation, and staggering of classes.

The thread can be seen here:
https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1261576137358012417

So at this point I'm waiting on smurfy to say you are full of shit.

Also someone was trying to equate working in a shop where limited numbers in place safe distance markers in place screens up and other safe measures in place to 30 kids in a small room all day with a teacher trying to self isolate kids and teach them.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 02:53:35 PM
Certainly not 30 kids in the one classroom. They would be split. A school would have better measures in place than a shop. Have u been in a shop lately
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on May 18, 2020, 02:56:52 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 02:53:35 PM
Certainly not 30 kids in the one classroom. They would be split. A school would have better measures in place than a shop. Have u been in a shop lately

And plenty of workplaces that have continued to work throughout this, with sensible social distancing measures
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 18, 2020, 03:20:50 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on May 18, 2020, 02:56:52 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 02:53:35 PM
Certainly not 30 kids in the one classroom. They would be split. A school would have better measures in place than a shop. Have u been in a shop lately

And plenty of workplaces that have continued to work throughout this, with sensible social distancing measures

Which workplace is analogous to a classroom?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 18, 2020, 03:22:24 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 02:53:35 PMA school would have better measures in place than a shop. Have u been in a shop lately

Have "u" been in a school lately?

How well did you find the kids always listen to instruction?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2020, 04:05:21 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 02:53:35 PM
Certainly not 30 kids in the one classroom. They would be split. A school would have better measures in place than a shop. Have u been in a shop lately

Was in today, 2 in only at a time in the local shop, sanitizer used on way in and one way system in place, card only and screens up, so i find it difficult to understand how a school will have better measurements in place than that, 30 kids per class, unless they bring in twice as many teachers to split that and build more classes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 18, 2020, 04:06:22 PM
The risk to children is minuscule. Proper measures must of course be put in place but they need to reopen schools if they want to get people back to work. Sorry Teachers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 18, 2020, 04:10:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2020, 04:06:22 PM
The risk to children is minuscule. Proper measures must of course be put in place but they need to reopen schools if they want to get people back to work. Sorry Teachers.

There is a risk to children - some have died.
Kids can also carry it home to members of their families.
Kids can also pass it on to teachers.

This is factual
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2020, 04:11:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2020, 04:06:22 PM
The risk to children is minuscule. Proper measures must of course be put in place but they need to reopen schools if they want to get people back to work. Sorry Teachers.

I'm not worried per-say about the kids as they don't seem to be getting ill by any reports, but I'm more worried about my wife getting it and falling ill or giving it to her parents who she is doing errands for or giving it to me, as I do errands for my parents.

So your proper workable measure are what?

Still waiting on confirmation on can kids pass the virus on, smurfy must be looking for that link still. or maybe you can confirm that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 18, 2020, 04:22:34 PM
The number of children who have died from this is tiny. It is a disease almost exclusively of the over 70s. I know everyone wants to engage in this "we're all going to die apocalypse" but the main risk to older people and those with underlying health conditions. They must of course be protected and proper social distancing measures undertaken for the foreseeable but I think the schools should go back. What will be different in September? Will the virus have gone back to China?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 18, 2020, 04:25:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2020, 04:22:34 PM
The number of children who have died from this is tiny. It is a disease almost exclusively of the over 70s. I know everyone wants to engage in this "we're all going to die apocalypse" but the main risk to older people and those with underlying health conditions. They must of course be protected and proper social distancing measures undertaken for the foreseeable but I think the schools should go back. What will be different in September? Will the virus have gone back to China?

Serious question trailer.........two parents who are vulnerable, or their grandparents live with them have 3 kids at school.
Or a teacher has elderly parents living with them.

Can you see the issue with sending any of them back to school?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 18, 2020, 04:27:29 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 18, 2020, 04:25:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2020, 04:22:34 PM
The number of children who have died from this is tiny. It is a disease almost exclusively of the over 70s. I know everyone wants to engage in this "we're all going to die apocalypse" but the main risk to older people and those with underlying health conditions. They must of course be protected and proper social distancing measures undertaken for the foreseeable but I think the schools should go back. What will be different in September? Will the virus have gone back to China?

Serious question trailer.........two parents who are vulnerable, or their grandparents live with them have 3 kids at school.
Or a teacher has elderly parents living with them.

Can you see the issue with sending any of them back to school?

Yes there will be exceptions of course but that is not a reason to never open schools. Will those people have gotten better in September? They'll still be vulnerable, Covid-19 will still be here and the schools will be open.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 18, 2020, 04:29:44 PM
The percentage of cases under 14 in Ireland is 1.7% - 400 cases.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/772d92-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-sunday-17-m/#age-range-affected (https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/772d92-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-sunday-17-m/#age-range-affected)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 18, 2020, 04:34:21 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2020, 04:29:44 PM
The percentage of cases under 14 in Ireland is 1.7% - 400 cases.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/772d92-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-sunday-17-m/#age-range-affected (https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/772d92-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-sunday-17-m/#age-range-affected)

Hardly suprising, since the schools have been closed for 9 weeks!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 18, 2020, 04:38:51 PM
It has nothing to do with the Schools being closed. That's a ridiculous argument. Could children not catch it from a parent? Could they not have caught it from other people even before lockdown?
That's the figures for Ireland that I shared but it is the same the world over. I know it's a serious disease and for certain people deadly - they must be protected but the fact remains the danger to children is tiny. The death rate is similar to the death rate in normal day to day accidents and sudden deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 18, 2020, 04:40:48 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 18, 2020, 04:30:59 PM
Would you expect to see a big increase in that if those kids had been going to school?

Also, you are quoting those figures from so called experts and I'm not believing a single thing they say as they haven't a clue.

It's the government figures. They counted the bodies. I agree it is probably more but the percentages are probably there or thereabouts.
If the government is following the science then I can't see why they wouldn't open schools.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 18, 2020, 04:44:29 PM
Deaths in England by age.

0-19  - 13
20-39 - 181
40-59 - 1,975
60-79 - 9,539
80+   - 13,031







Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 18, 2020, 04:46:02 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 18, 2020, 04:44:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2020, 04:40:48 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 18, 2020, 04:30:59 PM
Would you expect to see a big increase in that if those kids had been going to school?

Also, you are quoting those figures from so called experts and I'm not believing a single thing they say as they haven't a clue.

It's the government figures. They counted the bodies. I agree it is probably more but the percentages are probably there or thereabouts.
If the government is following the science then I can't see why they wouldn't open schools.
And you are trusting them to "count the bodies" correctly? I don't. The test passing idiots can't get anything right. Following the science you say? You'd be better following a shite down a stream.

And what's your argument? What point would you like to make?
The fact still remains - the risk to children is minuscule - Tiny.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2020, 04:53:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2020, 04:22:34 PM
The number of children who have died from this is tiny. It is a disease almost exclusively of the over 70s. I know everyone wants to engage in this "we're all going to die apocalypse" but the main risk to older people and those with underlying health conditions. They must of course be protected and proper social distancing measures undertaken for the foreseeable but I think the schools should go back. What will be different in September? Will the virus have gone back to China?

Teachers want to go back ya header, that's not what I'm asking, can a child pass the virus on to a teacher or the bus man or dinner lady or other people within the school who are over the age of 18?

Now answer that one first please? please don't tell me its tiny, just answer it

Teachers are currently teaching at the minute, albeit online, parents that are off with their kids due to their own work being closed are teaching their kids, home schooling and as teaching is a easy touch, there is no one complaining  ::)

Life will always get back to normal, or a new normal and schools will go back in full soon, this time of year is exam time/studying and a lot of kids would have been off anyways at secondary level, going back before September won't really achieve anything, a month and a bit of learning, only for it to be forgotten about come September.

I'm only using September as a date, I'm not saying when it will be deemed safe, that might be when or if the second wave hits, things may change.

With the number being tiny for kids to die from, its a virus that is completely avoidable, would parents be happy enough to put their kids at risk anyways? I know sometimes my teenagers piss me off the odd time but I'm not up to putting them at risk
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 18, 2020, 04:55:14 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 18, 2020, 04:47:20 PM
So the scientists & experts say. My point is that we shouldn't be trusting this information from such people.

So just where would that leave us?

If science and expertise is a waste of time, what should we be relying on to guide policy?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on May 18, 2020, 05:03:18 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 18, 2020, 04:47:20 PM
So the scientists & experts say. My point is that we shouldn't be trusting this information from such people.

;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on May 18, 2020, 05:04:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 18, 2020, 04:55:14 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 18, 2020, 04:47:20 PM
So the scientists & experts say. My point is that we shouldn't be trusting this information from such people.

So just where would that leave us?

If science and expertise is a waste of time, what should we be relying on to guide policy?

Trailer, Smurfy and wobbler seem to have it well sussed.

I'd say probably them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 18, 2020, 05:12:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2020, 04:06:22 PM
The risk to children is minuscule. Proper measures must of course be put in place but they need to reopen schools if they want to get people back to work. Sorry Teachers.

Just on this - you do realise when the schools re-open, at best your gonna get:

- half classes, probably even less as classrooms are not big enough for safe spacing
- half days - no lunch break as not possible to safely feed them so kids will have to go home
- rota of kids in school for partial days and off for intermittent days in the week.


You seem to think schools reopening is some kinda panacea solution for the economy. In the state they'll be able to open in, it'll cause a minor ripple at most.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 18, 2020, 05:14:10 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 18, 2020, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 18, 2020, 04:55:14 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 18, 2020, 04:47:20 PM
So the scientists & experts say. My point is that we shouldn't be trusting this information from such people.

So just where would that leave us?

If science and expertise is a waste of time, what should we be relying on to guide policy?
I don't know. Trailer hasn't got as far as telling us yet but for now, just keep ignoring anything that the scientists and so called experts tell us as they are making it up as the go along. They know fcuk all more than anyone else.

Haven't been following too closely and so missed the sarcasm! :)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 18, 2020, 05:15:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 18, 2020, 04:55:14 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 18, 2020, 04:47:20 PM
So the scientists & experts say. My point is that we shouldn't be trusting this information from such people.

So just where would that leave us?

If science and expertise is a waste of time, what should we be relying on to guide policy?

You need to read some books for 24 hrs, then you'll know all the answers.

Although you'll have to be very careful who authors the books - as if its written by a scientist or expert who knows what they'd put into it and your back to square one.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 18, 2020, 05:20:22 PM
Schools have been back open in numerous countries for a few weeks, anyone know has this led to an increase in cases in kids?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 18, 2020, 05:25:13 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 18, 2020, 05:20:22 PM
Schools have been back open in numerous countries for a few weeks, anyone know has this led to an increase in cases in kids?

Kids are much more likely to be asymptomatic.

But in saying that, so far it seems to have went quite well - with the obvious large caveat that its too early to draw strong conclusions:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/18/french-minister-tells-of-risks-of-missing-school-as-more-pupils-return-covid-19


But this is the danger:
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/world-news/2020/05/18/70-cases-of-covid-19-linked-to-french-schools-days-after-reopening/

Note with timelines, they had it before schools reopened, but the risk is they spread it quickly in the school.



edit: Its the likes of Germany & Korea I am looking to - they have large testing & tracing systems set up and evidently working. The trends and statistics coming back from these two will go along way in shaping my opinion on what should (and should not) be done. The UK by comparison are a laughing stock - they have, and will continue to have, no fukking idea what relaxation of measures are doing until people start walking in the doors of A&E in big numbers - by which point its 2-3 weeks too late to fix the misstep.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 18, 2020, 05:27:16 PM
Chaos as eight schools in European city forced to close after child catches coronavirus
Eight schools in a French city have closed after a child tested positive for Coronavirus.

Schools only began reopening in France last week, but seven public institutions and one private school in Roubaix closed on Monday morning.

The decision was made after one child in a reception class contracted Covid-19.

France reopened around 40,000 schools last week, with classes capped at 15 students
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2020, 05:34:51 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 18, 2020, 05:20:22 PM
Schools have been back open in numerous countries for a few weeks, anyone know has this led to an increase in cases in kids?

It's not about kids getting it, they are, but evidence has shown that on many cases it's a mild illness, it's whether the pass it on.

The expert on the BBC there now danced around that question he'd loads of data on kids and illness but funny enough not enough data to show if kids can pass it on to adults.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 18, 2020, 05:56:58 PM
Shows promise.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/18/health/coronavirus-vaccine-moderna-early-results/index.html

Not the end, *probably* not the beginning of the end just yet, but hopeful nonetheless.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on May 18, 2020, 05:59:38 PM
Quote from: five points on May 18, 2020, 10:54:44 AM
That's ok, and thank you. He should indeed let it go.

Agreed!!! We all have said things we later regretted. You've apologised. That should be the end of the matter IMO
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 18, 2020, 06:01:52 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 18, 2020, 05:56:58 PM
Shows promise.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/18/health/coronavirus-vaccine-moderna-early-results/index.html

Not the end, *probably* not the beginning of the end just yet, but hopeful nonetheless.

This kind of thing is promising, especially as there are several horses in the vaccine race and while some will fall at a hurdle, some might finish.

Also the numbers for most places are improved, except perhaps Brazil, only 4 deaths in ROI reported today and 88 cases. If people don't act the maggot now that some extra things are opened then we might be in a remission phase.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 06:11:15 PM
I would question whether teachers want to go back. Sitting at home on full wages why would they want to go back? Don't come with that crap to me. We are all adults here
Schools will be fine. We are talking about 2/3 classes max. So 30% of what the school can hold
The south of Ireland have this virus slowed and crushed. Crushed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2020, 06:14:34 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 06:11:15 PM
I would question whether teachers want to go back. Sitting at home on full wages why would they want to go back? Don't come with that crap to me. We are all adults here
Schools will be fine. We are talking about 2/3 classes max. So 30% of what the school can hold
The south of Ireland have this virus slowed and crushed. Crushed

I'm sitting at home with a decent wage, I still want back, generalising wont make your argument work
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 06:17:51 PM
Well what's the problem then?
Why the arguments about getting back
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2020, 06:30:33 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 06:17:51 PM
Well what's the problem then?
Why the arguments about getting back

There are none, its very simple, if you are in a class of 15 or 30 kids is it safe? you haven't answered, can kids pass it on to adults? its a yes or no answer.

If its yes then how can we make it safe for teachers or give them confidence of going back into a workplace that traditionally the first outbreak of a virus, like the flu/cold/bugs (I'm not saying they are the same) lots of kids get it including teachers

I know plenty teachers, lots of them are friends/family or I've two as next door neighbours that teach, they want back to work.

BTW, I'm not concerned about the wee blighters, its the teachers who bring it back to family that I'm concerned about, if the wife gets it that's a bonus  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 18, 2020, 06:39:52 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 18, 2020, 06:30:55 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 06:17:51 PM
Well what's the problem then?
Why the arguments about getting back
Who knows? Perhaps they are worried that they would be much more exposed to a deadly disease? The weirdos.

It's been crushed though. Crushed. Oh that's just down south. they should hurry up and open everything back up then.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 06:44:01 PM
I would say yes it's safe to teach very safe
I can't say 100% but no matter what you do in life you can't be 100%
As I said I could walk out the front door and be kidnapped by an alien and shot
Is it safe yes can I be 100% sure no
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2020, 06:55:22 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 06:44:01 PM
I would say yes it's safe to teach very safe
I can't say 100% but no matter what you do in life you can't be 100%
As I said I could walk out the front door and be kidnapped by an alien and shot
Is it safe yes can I be 100% sure no

Answered like a true politician. Its a yes or no answer, I'll try it one more time, after that I'm not taking you serious anymore ;D ;D

Can kids pass on the virus?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 18, 2020, 06:58:31 PM
There's more risk in not sending children back to school with neglect, abuse and poverty. Referrals to social services is well down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: charlieTully on May 18, 2020, 06:59:26 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 18, 2020, 06:44:01 PM
I would say yes it's safe to teach very safe
I can't say 100% but no matter what you do in life you can't be 100%
As I said I could walk out the front door and be kidnapped by an alien and shot
Is it safe yes can I be 100% sure no

That county final defeat has really messed with your head smurph. You need to get back to work lad you have lost the plot. Almost funny it it were not so serious.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Orior on May 18, 2020, 07:16:30 PM
This thread is now at 355 pages, and the earths population 7.8 billion. If the population continues to grow it will become unsustainable. There are two options to tackle this issue:

1) Take the Chinese Way, and only allow couples to have one child. This policy will of course need updated for Twinbook and Ballymun where coupling is just a seasonal thing.

2) Take the Chinese Virus, and let God's revenge do it's thing.

3) Find another planet, and build a big rocket to take us there.


I personally vote for (1).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 18, 2020, 07:21:19 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 18, 2020, 07:16:30 PM
This thread is now at 355 pages, and the earths population 7.8 billion. If the population continues to grow it will become unsustainable. There are two options to tackle this issue:

1) Take the Chinese Way, and only allow couples to have one child. This policy will of course need updated for Twinbook and Ballymun where coupling is just a seasonal thing.

2) Take the Chinese Virus, and let God's revenge do it's thing.

3) Find another planet, and build a big rocket to take us there.


I personally vote for (1).


Reclaim the seas Orior. Reclaim the seas.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 18, 2020, 07:49:26 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 18, 2020, 07:16:30 PM
This thread is now at 355 pages, and the earths population 7.8 billion. If the population continues to grow it will become unsustainable. There are two options to tackle this issue:

1) Take the Chinese Way, and only allow couples to have one child. This policy will of course need updated for Twinbook and Ballymun where coupling is just a seasonal thing.

2) Take the Chinese Virus, and let God's revenge do it's thing.

3) Find another planet, and build a big rocket to take us there.


I personally vote for (1).

I favour the approach of the  Golgafrincham ark from The Hitchhikers Guide to Galaxy. In this case, a  plan was drawn up to evacuate the planet  Golgafrincham. Three arks were proposed and one was launched filled with all the middlemen of Golgafrincham, such as the telephone sanitisers, account executives, hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, public relations executives, and management consultants.
The doctors, engineers, scientists, teachers etc were supposed to go on two other arks, but they never got around to launching those, for some reason.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2020, 07:56:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 18, 2020, 07:49:26 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 18, 2020, 07:16:30 PM
This thread is now at 355 pages, and the earths population 7.8 billion. If the population continues to grow it will become unsustainable. There are two options to tackle this issue:

1) Take the Chinese Way, and only allow couples to have one child. This policy will of course need updated for Twinbook and Ballymun where coupling is just a seasonal thing.

2) Take the Chinese Virus, and let God's revenge do it's thing.

3) Find another planet, and build a big rocket to take us there.


I personally vote for (1).

I favour the approach of the  Golgafrincham ark from The Hitchhikers Guide to Galaxy. In this case, a  plan was drawn up to evacuate the planet  Golgafrincham. Three arks were proposed and one was launched filled with all the middlemen of Golgafrincham, such as the telephone sanitisers, account executives, hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, public relations executives, and management consultants.
The doctors, engineers, scientists, teachers etc were supposed to go on two other arks, but they never got around to launching those, for some reason.

Thanos had the solution
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on May 18, 2020, 08:24:35 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/17/health/coronavirus-multisystem-fnflammatory-syndrome-children-teenagers.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/17/health/coronavirus-multisystem-fnflammatory-syndrome-children-teenagers.html)

A related virus affects kids. 200 as of this article from Saturday's NYT.   Small numbers, but very worrying.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 18, 2020, 09:29:18 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 18, 2020, 07:16:02 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2020, 06:58:31 PM
There's more risk in not sending children back to school with neglect, abuse and poverty. Referrals to social services is well down.
Do you think that about 20 days in school (or less) before another 2 months off is going to have a significant impact on that?

I honestly do believe it will. Early intervention in these situations is key. This is a trying time for families and some children are at risk. More at risk than dying from Covid-19
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Substandard on May 18, 2020, 09:32:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 18, 2020, 07:49:26 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 18, 2020, 07:16:30 PM
This thread is now at 355 pages, and the earths population 7.8 billion. If the population continues to grow it will become unsustainable. There are two options to tackle this issue:

1) Take the Chinese Way, and only allow couples to have one child. This policy will of course need updated for Twinbook and Ballymun where coupling is just a seasonal thing.

2) Take the Chinese Virus, and let God's revenge do it's thing.

3) Find another planet, and build a big rocket to take us there.


I personally vote for (1).

I favour the approach of the  Golgafrincham ark from The Hitchhikers Guide to Galaxy. In this case, a  plan was drawn up to evacuate the planet  Golgafrincham. Three arks were proposed and one was launched filled with all the middlemen of Golgafrincham, such as the telephone sanitisers, account executives, hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, public relations executives, and management consultants.
The doctors, engineers, scientists, teachers etc were supposed to go on two other arks, but they never got around to launching those, for some reason.

Good plan in theory,  but didn't quite work out as anticipated!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 18, 2020, 09:44:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2020, 09:29:18 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 18, 2020, 07:16:02 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2020, 06:58:31 PM
There's more risk in not sending children back to school with neglect, abuse and poverty. Referrals to social services is well down.
Do you think that about 20 days in school (or less) before another 2 months off is going to have a significant impact on that?

I honestly do believe it will. Early intervention in these situations is key. This is a trying time for families and some children are at risk. More at risk than dying from Covid-19

Oh, your all for early intervention in those cases?

Tell me, while not belittling them, is neglect, abuse and/or poverty contagious?

When weighed up against a contagious virus that has worrying case mortality rates, I think early intervention is probably more important when it comes to the virus, don't you think?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 19, 2020, 09:17:19 AM
I think it was the assistant chief medical officer over here who stated yesterday it looks like that kids aren't passing the disease on like adults although they've no hard evidence of that yet.

According to a report on LBC yesterday that there hasn't been a case in Denmark or Germany of a teacher catching it when back teaching.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2020, 09:32:15 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 19, 2020, 09:17:19 AM
I think it was the assistant chief medical officer over here who stated yesterday it looks like that kids aren't passing the disease on like adults although they've no hard evidence of that yet.

According to a report on LBC yesterday that there hasn't been a case in Denmark or Germany of a teacher catching it when back teaching.

He was asked the question and broke it into four parts, the three parts of the question he had loads of data, then he didn't have much data to go on, for kids passing it on to others! The logic of kids getting it at the same rate of adults but not passing it on seems bizarre.

I get that fact that there may be less data due to a lot of schools worldwide closed and have only recently opened up but what makes age a factor in relation to the spread? Do kids break the virus down quicker so less period having it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 19, 2020, 09:49:19 AM
Trump again has you watching the hand he wants you to just randomly throwing out he's on this hydroxychloroquine

Didn't know Trump was 73. He looks alright for his age I suppose.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 19, 2020, 09:57:41 AM
QuoteJason, I know by this point you have stopped reading the comments but I am a headteacher and I've been into work this morning splitting my school into impersonal zones. It doesn't feel like school, children and staff won't be able to socialise like they did. Children in the early years have had just about all the lovely cuddly things stripped from their rooms. My beautiful vibrant rooms are now sterile holding bays for the poor unfortunate children who arrive. Please don't send your children, we all want to get back to normal but at the moment this is not normal and not fair to put the children in this environment. And don't get me in about putting my staff at risk...😩

I read that in reply to Jason Manford asking how people felt about returning their children to school. It isn't great reading.

Like you say as well HS - these kids are going to be sent back for a short number of weeks then it's all over again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 19, 2020, 09:59:37 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2020, 09:44:53 AM
I'd say there is definitely risk for people going back into schools. The question is - is it necessary risk?
I think it's clear that if schools reopened, each pupil would likely be attending 2-3 days per week maximum in order to comply with social distancing. That's 10 or 15 days they'll be attending before having 2 months off.
What will that achieve? I suppose parents could go back to work for 10 or 15 days if they have one child. If they have more than one and they are in school on different days, they aren't really gaining much.
In terms of the child's education, I imagine those few days will advance them very little, if at all.
Then, you have what trailer believes - that it will have a significant impact on "neglect, abuse and poverty". Honestly, I don't really buy that at all.

So, is it necessary risk? For me, no.

If they don't go back to School you're looking at 4,5 & 6 year olds going 6 months without School at a very important stage in their development. I've a mate who teaches at a school in one of the poorer areas of Manchester and its an eye opener what goes on in terms of neglect.

Its clearly a difficult decision to make but I'm in favour of them going back.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on May 19, 2020, 10:10:31 AM
I was talking to a girl from Croatia who missed 4 years of education during their war, still went on to get a degree. She reckons kids at that young age can catch up really quickly and I'd tend to believe her.

My wee fella is 6, he has been doing a little bit of homework but not much, once they go back in September they will pick up where they left off, I dont think there will be any long term consequences.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 19, 2020, 10:13:04 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2020, 10:03:45 AM
What impact do you think 10 days in the middle of that 6 months would make on their development?

Its going to be 5/6 weeks.

A 6 year old in year 1 going nearly 6 months without school could have a huge impact. I've 2 kids aged 9 and 6, got no issues with the 9 year old not going back to School until September but the 6 year is a totally different case for a variety of reasons.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 19, 2020, 10:17:51 AM
It's the fact every news channel you turn on every school principal saying no we can't do this we can't do that it's to risky. Find a way like everyone else. The supermarkets Banks building sites hospitals etc.
Things are going to be far from perfect but principals need to stop being so negative all the time about things. Start planning now. Get all teachers back in now and start planning and organising tables etc for things to start in September. Plan break timetables and dinner timetables so that everyone not out together. That's what needs to happen. But all this no we can't do this stuff is just so negative. Find a way
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 19, 2020, 10:28:10 AM
Sure don't send kids back until there's a vaccine and make redundant all these teachers. They're not needed..... A vaccine is at best 1 year away.

The fact remains this is a disease of the over 70s. Shield the vulnerable, take proper precautions but get back to some sense of normality.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on May 19, 2020, 10:37:18 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2020, 10:32:37 AM
Or start back in September, hopefully the risk will be much further reduced. Pupils, apart from the odd week of holidays, will be in school every week of the school year and hopefully as normal as possible.

Please leave this thread and stop spouting sensible courses of action, we have no time for such rationale!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 19, 2020, 10:48:30 AM
I know schools in reality won't be going back until September. I think that is wrong and can see no logical reason for it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 19, 2020, 11:05:23 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2020, 10:51:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 10:48:30 AM
I know schools in reality won't be going back until September. I think that is wrong and can see no logical reason for it.
Because the benefit of 10 random days at school before 2 months off doesn't outweigh the risk of people contracting Covid-19.

That's my logical reason but you are entitled to your own.

Honestly Hardstation, I've been at home minding 2 kids, one at primary school one not school age, since the 16th March. My wife is a nurse and is working. I am at home trying to keep a small business a float paying wages to keep roofs over other families heads who all have small children. We've lost around 90% of turnover and I am into my own personal savings and then probably I'll take out a huge loan and god knows if I will be able to pay it back. It's a huge strain on my mental health.
Now forgive me, but I think that even if the schools open for one day it would be a huge lift to parents around the country and would signal that normality would return someday because at this stage parents who own businesses or are employees are looking for any sort of positive sign right now.
We're all in this together but the reality is we're not and the situation favours some families over others. Maybe Teachers will take this into consideration.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 19, 2020, 11:09:44 AM
A friend of mine works in a primary school with 400 odd kids. They've 20 classrooms and they're worked out that at best each classroom can accommodate 8 kids as per the scant guidelines they've got already. Their canteen area approximately 20 kids at a push.

So that's 160 Kids a day, staggered starting times, staggered breaks, staggered home times and the kids at best will be in one day in three.
Cleaners in deep cleaning every evening.

That's the reality folks and I'd hazard that most primary schools will be similar.

Secondary/Grammar schools will be worse again as there's a bigger requirement for buses and the likes to get them to and from the place.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 19, 2020, 11:18:56 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2020, 11:15:35 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 11:05:23 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2020, 10:51:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 10:48:30 AM
I know schools in reality won't be going back until September. I think that is wrong and can see no logical reason for it.
Because the benefit of 10 random days at school before 2 months off doesn't outweigh the risk of people contracting Covid-19.

That's my logical reason but you are entitled to your own.

Honestly Hardstation, I've been at home minding 2 kids, one at primary school one not school age, since the 16th March. My wife is a nurse and is working. I am at home trying to keep a small business a float paying wages to keep roofs over other families heads who all have small children. We've lost around 90% of turnover and I am into my own personal savings and then probably I'll take out a huge loan and god knows if I will be able to pay it back. It's a huge strain on my mental health.
Now forgive me, but I think that even if the schools open for one day it would be a huge lift to parents around the country and would signal that normality would return someday because at this stage parents who own businesses or are employees are looking for any sort of positive sign right now.
We're all in this together but the reality is we're not and the situation favours some families over others. Maybe Teachers will take this into consideration.
You expect teachers and kids to put themselves at risk of the disease for the token gesture of giving parents hope that one day things will get back to normal? I am genuinely sorry to hear of your circumstances but I still think your request is unreasonable.

But you expect it of others?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 19, 2020, 11:53:28 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2020, 11:20:35 AM
I expect what?

I do not expect anyone to put themselves at risk in order to give token gestures of hope that things will get back to normal.

Cool we're all in this together.

And the risk is minuscule.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on May 19, 2020, 12:01:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 11:53:28 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2020, 11:20:35 AM
I expect what?

I do not expect anyone to put themselves at risk in order to give token gestures of hope that things will get back to normal.

Cool we're all in this together.

And the risk is minuscule.

Are you an expert on this?
The one thing that has been a constant on this, is that there are all manner of lay-people offering up their "expertise" on something that even the experts don't understand fully. 

Out of interest:
Do you have children?
Do you have elderly parents?
Do you have an underlying illness or health condition that would put you at risk?


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 12:03:56 PM
Quote from: APM on May 19, 2020, 12:01:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 11:53:28 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2020, 11:20:35 AM
I expect what?

I do not expect anyone to put themselves at risk in order to give token gestures of hope that things will get back to normal.

Cool we're all in this together.

And the risk is minuscule.

Are you an expert on this?

No, but he's read books on it for 24hrs.

[Not sure who wrote the books though - as apparently the scientists and experts don't know what they are doing]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on May 19, 2020, 12:10:34 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 19, 2020, 09:17:19 AM
I think it was the assistant chief medical officer over here who stated yesterday it looks like that kids aren't passing the disease on like adults although they've no hard evidence of that yet.

According to a report on LBC yesterday that there hasn't been a case in Denmark or Germany of a teacher catching it when back teaching.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/70-cases-of-covid-19-linked-to-french-schools-days-after-reopening-1000165.html?fbclid=IwAR0jqHvFa1snKPTLYnwuktOry_i4HccBvTOXEA5dn2y1xH1etIt-BnUHvGA
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 19, 2020, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 12:03:56 PM
Quote from: APM on May 19, 2020, 12:01:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 11:53:28 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2020, 11:20:35 AM
I expect what?

I do not expect anyone to put themselves at risk in order to give token gestures of hope that things will get back to normal.

Cool we're all in this together.

And the risk is minuscule.

Are you an expert on this?

No, but he's read books on it for 24hrs.

[Not sure who wrote the books though - as apparently the scientists and experts don't know what they are doing]

You're such a tit. You keep saying this, yet I never said it. I see you're a man for detail.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on May 19, 2020, 12:16:27 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2020, 11:15:35 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 11:05:23 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2020, 10:51:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 10:48:30 AM
I know schools in reality won't be going back until September. I think that is wrong and can see no logical reason for it.
Because the benefit of 10 random days at school before 2 months off doesn't outweigh the risk of people contracting Covid-19.

That's my logical reason but you are entitled to your own.

Honestly Hardstation, I've been at home minding 2 kids, one at primary school one not school age, since the 16th March. My wife is a nurse and is working. I am at home trying to keep a small business a float paying wages to keep roofs over other families heads who all have small children. We've lost around 90% of turnover and I am into my own personal savings and then probably I'll take out a huge loan and god knows if I will be able to pay it back. It's a huge strain on my mental health.
Now forgive me, but I think that even if the schools open for one day it would be a huge lift to parents around the country and would signal that normality would return someday because at this stage parents who own businesses or are employees are looking for any sort of positive sign right now.
We're all in this together but the reality is we're not and the situation favours some families over others. Maybe Teachers will take this into consideration.
You expect teachers and kids to put themselves at risk of the disease for the token gesture of giving parents hope that one day things will get back to normal? I am genuinely sorry to hear of your circumstances but I still think your request is unreasonable.

Yeah I have to agree with this.
Lots of people are struggling and lots of people will lose jobs and companies and that is going to be really difficult and life changing for those affected.
But Teachers have families too. Kids may not be getting sick in the same numbers as older people, but some do get sick. What if your child was one of them?
What if your child was a carrier and was asymptomatic but infected a class full of other kids, one of which dies as a result. How would that death affect the mental health of other children in the class? Or the teachers who might bring it home to their kids or extended family?
My wife is a P1 teacher, and with kids that age in a school setting it will be impossible to keep them socially distanced. They just want to play. How does one teacher keep perhaps a dozen kids from coming into close personal contact? It's just not practically possible.
My own opinion is that all schools should stay off for a full year. Return around the same time next year that they were closed this year providing that the disease has be controlled. Then just start them back where they left off. P1 is still P1, university students, secondary students everyone back to were they were. A brutal blunt method, but it would keep everyone safe over that period and simplify all the issues around exams, transfers to new schools for p7s etc.

There's a real danger here that schools are being made scapegoats for the failings of a governemnt. Had they acted appropriated in the first instance with testing and tracing, perhaps we could be like South Korea, or New Zealand. But they didnt and we're not and now we're being told to take risks with our kids to get the money flowing again.
I'm sorry, but I wouldn't risk my kids for any money and I wouldn't expect a teacher to put themselves or their extended families at risk either. I'd rather survive and be poor than die with money in my pocket.

I've 6 kids at home, both my parents are shielding due to underlying health problems, my mother in law too. We are both working from home, balancing home schooling and work is not a trivial thing.
The only way out of this, if there is a way out, is not to rush back or we will suffer more for longer. The virus can wait us out and holds all the cards. We have to decide what's most important, getting back to "normal" or surviving.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 19, 2020, 12:17:08 PM
Quote from: APM on May 19, 2020, 12:01:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 11:53:28 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2020, 11:20:35 AM
I expect what?

I do not expect anyone to put themselves at risk in order to give token gestures of hope that things will get back to normal.

Cool we're all in this together.

And the risk is minuscule.

Are you an expert on this?
The one thing that has been a constant on this, is that there are all manner of lay-people offering up their "expertise" on something that even the experts don't understand fully. 

Out of interest:
Do you have children? Yes
Do you have elderly parents? Yes
Do you have an underlying illness or health condition that would put you at risk? No

Here boss, in case you haven't noticed it's a discussion board. People give opinions.

If the figures are to be believed and I see no reason not to at least trust the percentages, even if the totals aren't 100% accurate, this is a disease of the over 70s.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on May 19, 2020, 12:24:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 10:28:10 AM
Sure don't send kids back until there's a vaccine and make redundant all these teachers. They're not needed..... A vaccine is at best 1 year away.

The fact remains this is a disease of the over 70s. Shield the vulnerable, take proper precautions but get back to some sense of normality.

Absolute nonsense.
I have personal links to people infected. 2 in their 70s (one of which died). 2 in their 50s, one requiring hospital care. 1 in their 40s required a ventilator.
I have a friend working in a covid ward....the majority are over 50 but there are many under 50s.
The new normal is not going to be anything like the old normal and I really fear for what the future looks like if a vaccine is not possible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 19, 2020, 12:30:30 PM
I would say by the time September is here SD will be 1 metre 1.5 max. So instead of your 8 in a classroom that will become 16. Makes sense
Let's get planning now for it. And if teachers refuse then cut the wages until a vaccine is found. I wonder how many principals would find a way if they were told all wages will stop
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on May 19, 2020, 12:38:14 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 19, 2020, 12:30:30 PM
I would say by the time September is here SD will be 1 metre 1.5 max. So instead of your 8 in a classroom that will become 16. Makes sense
Let's get planning now for it. And if teachers refuse then cut the wages until a vaccine is found. I wonder how many principals would find a way if they were told all wages will stop

Ok, so how would 1 teacher in a classroom of 16 4-year olds stop them all from getting within 1.5m of each other? On a practical level, how would they do it?
Where did you get this 1 metre 1.5 max from by the way? WHO change their advice on how close you can be before you get infected?
Principals wont have the deciding say on this, unions will. Principals have a duty of care to the children AND staff and any employer has to make sure that the workplace is safe for employees. Not possible in a school setting IMO.
As for cutting teachers wages, teachers are still working. They are contracted by the dept of education and protected by unions. A cut in wages would require a change in legislation and this would trigger the unions to call for general strike. No teachers, not teaching of any sort.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tintin25 on May 19, 2020, 12:38:56 PM
How much of a factor is obesity in the number of deaths and people taking ill?

Seen the video of the queues looking to get into the KFC on the Boucher Road last week - unreal.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 12:48:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 12:14:07 PM
You're such a tit. You keep saying this, yet I never said it. I see you're a man for detail.

Oh did you not?

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1970198#msg1970198

QuoteI could study "the science" for 24 hours and I'd be better placed to make decisions on what to do rather than these clowns.

Unless I've erred in assuming that studying the science would mean reading literature on the subject.

Perhaps you meant read facebook for 24 hrs instead?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 19, 2020, 12:50:47 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 19, 2020, 12:10:34 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 19, 2020, 09:17:19 AM
I think it was the assistant chief medical officer over here who stated yesterday it looks like that kids aren't passing the disease on like adults although they've no hard evidence of that yet.

According to a report on LBC yesterday that there hasn't been a case in Denmark or Germany of a teacher catching it when back teaching.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/70-cases-of-covid-19-linked-to-french-schools-days-after-reopening-1000165.html?fbclid=IwAR0jqHvFa1snKPTLYnwuktOry_i4HccBvTOXEA5dn2y1xH1etIt-BnUHvGA

I notice Trailer has no comment on this.
I wonder why???
Schools in 26 closed till at least 1st September.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 19, 2020, 12:51:09 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 12:48:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 12:14:07 PM
You're such a tit. You keep saying this, yet I never said it. I see you're a man for detail.

Oh did you not?

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1970198#msg1970198

QuoteI could study "the science" for 24 hours and I'd be better placed to make decisions on what to do rather than these clowns.

Unless I've erred in assuming that studying the science would mean reading literature on the subject.

Perhaps you meant read facebook for 24 hrs instead?

Good man - now go back and read what you said I said.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 12:57:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 12:51:09 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 12:48:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 12:14:07 PM
You're such a tit. You keep saying this, yet I never said it. I see you're a man for detail.

Oh did you not?

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1970198#msg1970198

QuoteI could study "the science" for 24 hours and I'd be better placed to make decisions on what to do rather than these clowns.

Unless I've erred in assuming that studying the science would mean reading literature on the subject.

Perhaps you meant read facebook for 24 hrs instead?

Good man - now go back and read what you said I said.

Study the science = read books you eejit. With every post you are literally making yourself look stupider and stupider.

I suppose it could mean scientific journals too, but for all intentions and purposes they might as well be books.

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 12:03:56 PM
Quote from: APM on May 19, 2020, 12:01:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 11:53:28 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2020, 11:20:35 AM
I expect what?

I do not expect anyone to put themselves at risk in order to give token gestures of hope that things will get back to normal.

Cool we're all in this together.

And the risk is minuscule.

Are you an expert on this?

No, but he's read books on it for 24hrs.

[Not sure who wrote the books though - as apparently the scientists and experts don't know what they are doing]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 19, 2020, 01:00:18 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 19, 2020, 12:16:27 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2020, 11:15:35 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 11:05:23 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2020, 10:51:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 10:48:30 AM
I know schools in reality won't be going back until September. I think that is wrong and can see no logical reason for it.
Because the benefit of 10 random days at school before 2 months off doesn't outweigh the risk of people contracting Covid-19.

That's my logical reason but you are entitled to your own.

Honestly Hardstation, I've been at home minding 2 kids, one at primary school one not school age, since the 16th March. My wife is a nurse and is working. I am at home trying to keep a small business a float paying wages to keep roofs over other families heads who all have small children. We've lost around 90% of turnover and I am into my own personal savings and then probably I'll take out a huge loan and god knows if I will be able to pay it back. It's a huge strain on my mental health.
Now forgive me, but I think that even if the schools open for one day it would be a huge lift to parents around the country and would signal that normality would return someday because at this stage parents who own businesses or are employees are looking for any sort of positive sign right now.
We're all in this together but the reality is we're not and the situation favours some families over others. Maybe Teachers will take this into consideration.
You expect teachers and kids to put themselves at risk of the disease for the token gesture of giving parents hope that one day things will get back to normal? I am genuinely sorry to hear of your circumstances but I still think your request is unreasonable.

Yeah I have to agree with this.
Lots of people are struggling and lots of people will lose jobs and companies and that is going to be really difficult and life changing for those affected.
But Teachers have families too. Kids may not be getting sick in the same numbers as older people, but some do get sick. What if your child was one of them?
What if your child was a carrier and was asymptomatic but infected a class full of other kids, one of which dies as a result. How would that death affect the mental health of other children in the class? Or the teachers who might bring it home to their kids or extended family?
My wife is a P1 teacher, and with kids that age in a school setting it will be impossible to keep them socially distanced. They just want to play. How does one teacher keep perhaps a dozen kids from coming into close personal contact? It's just not practically possible.
My own opinion is that all schools should stay off for a full year. Return around the same time next year that they were closed this year providing that the disease has be controlled. Then just start them back where they left off. P1 is still P1, university students, secondary students everyone back to were they were. A brutal blunt method, but it would keep everyone safe over that period and simplify all the issues around exams, transfers to new schools for p7s etc.

There's a real danger here that schools are being made scapegoats for the failings of a governemnt. Had they acted appropriated in the first instance with testing and tracing, perhaps we could be like South Korea, or New Zealand. But they didnt and we're not and now we're being told to take risks with our kids to get the money flowing again.
I'm sorry, but I wouldn't risk my kids for any money and I wouldn't expect a teacher to put themselves or their extended families at risk either. I'd rather survive and be poor than die with money in my pocket.

I've 6 kids at home, both my parents are shielding due to underlying health problems, my mother in law too. We are both working from home, balancing home schooling and work is not a trivial thing.
The only way out of this, if there is a way out, is not to rush back or we will suffer more for longer. The virus can wait us out and holds all the cards. We have to decide what's most important, getting back to "normal" or surviving.

No TV in your house brick????
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on May 19, 2020, 01:06:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 12:17:08 PM
Quote from: APM on May 19, 2020, 12:01:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 11:53:28 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2020, 11:20:35 AM
I expect what?

I do not expect anyone to put themselves at risk in order to give token gestures of hope that things will get back to normal.

Cool we're all in this together.

And the risk is minuscule.

Are you an expert on this?
The one thing that has been a constant on this, is that there are all manner of lay-people offering up their "expertise" on something that even the experts don't understand fully. 

Out of interest:
Do you have children? Yes
Do you have elderly parents? Yes
Do you have an underlying illness or health condition that would put you at risk? No

Here boss, in case you haven't noticed it's a discussion board. People give opinions.

If the figures are to be believed and I see no reason not to at least trust the percentages, even if the totals aren't 100% accurate, this is a disease of the over 70s.

My issue is that you present your opinions as if they are facts. 

Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 11:53:28 AM
Cool we're all in this together.
And the risk is minuscule.

You would think you have assessed the risk based on your extensive study and research in the field of virology and all of the available evidence. 
The risk is different for different people. It isn't just about the risk to kids, but to teachers and those that they come into contact with. 


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on May 19, 2020, 01:07:56 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 19, 2020, 12:16:27 PM
Yeah I have to agree with this.
Lots of people are struggling and lots of people will lose jobs and companies and that is going to be really difficult and life changing for those affected.
But Teachers have families too. Kids may not be getting sick in the same numbers as older people, but some do get sick. What if your child was one of them?
What if your child was a carrier and was asymptomatic but infected a class full of other kids, one of which dies as a result. How would that death affect the mental health of other children in the class? Or the teachers who might bring it home to their kids or extended family?
My wife is a P1 teacher, and with kids that age in a school setting it will be impossible to keep them socially distanced. They just want to play. How does one teacher keep perhaps a dozen kids from coming into close personal contact? It's just not practically possible.
My own opinion is that all schools should stay off for a full year. Return around the same time next year that they were closed this year providing that the disease has be controlled. Then just start them back where they left off. P1 is still P1, university students, secondary students everyone back to were they were. A brutal blunt method, but it would keep everyone safe over that period and simplify all the issues around exams, transfers to new schools for p7s etc.

There's a real danger here that schools are being made scapegoats for the failings of a governemnt. Had they acted appropriated in the first instance with testing and tracing, perhaps we could be like South Korea, or New Zealand. But they didnt and we're not and now we're being told to take risks with our kids to get the money flowing again.
I'm sorry, but I wouldn't risk my kids for any money and I wouldn't expect a teacher to put themselves or their extended families at risk either. I'd rather survive and be poor than die with money in my pocket.

I've 6 kids at home, both my parents are shielding due to underlying health problems, my mother in law too. We are both working from home, balancing home schooling and work is not a trivial thing.
The only way out of this, if there is a way out, is not to rush back or we will suffer more for longer. The virus can wait us out and holds all the cards. We have to decide what's most important, getting back to "normal" or surviving.

The way in which school teachers are being vilified in some aspects of the press is ridiculous.   tbrick's post hits the nail on the head.  Not sure about closing schools for a full year, but for all the populist guff the Daily Mail and other elements of the right wing have been spreading about clapping hands for the NHS, they are showing downright contempt for teachers.  There should be a special place in hell for hypocrites like these. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 19, 2020, 01:11:06 PM
Quote from: tintin25 on May 19, 2020, 12:38:56 PM
How much of a factor is obesity in the number of deaths and people taking ill?

Seen the video of the queues looking to get into the KFC on the Boucher Road last week - unreal.

I would say it's a factor, not thee factor. The older generation were majority all smokers.....they were told it was cool etc. They've decades of inhalation, it's not a surprised a respiratory illness is now responsible for their deaths in my eyes, of course factor in age on top.

The video for the KFC was just sad, seriously people....I mean its alright....its just alright. And that's if you even get it warm.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 19, 2020, 01:23:09 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 19, 2020, 01:11:06 PM
Quote from: tintin25 on May 19, 2020, 12:38:56 PM
How much of a factor is obesity in the number of deaths and people taking ill?

Seen the video of the queues looking to get into the KFC on the Boucher Road last week - unreal.

I would say it's a factor, not thee factor. The older generation were majority all smokers.....they were told it was cool etc. They've decades of inhalation, it's not a surprised a respiratory illness is now responsible for their deaths in my eyes, of course factor in age on top.

The video for the KFC was just sad, seriously people....I mean its alright....its just alright. And that's if you even get it warm.

Nearly as bad as the crowds queuing for the amenity centre in Bangor, one woman sat in the queue for 2 hours just to dump off a microwave..

WTF people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 19, 2020, 01:27:13 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 19, 2020, 01:11:06 PM
Quote from: tintin25 on May 19, 2020, 12:38:56 PM
How much of a factor is obesity in the number of deaths and people taking ill?

Seen the video of the queues looking to get into the KFC on the Boucher Road last week - unreal.

I would say it's a factor, not thee factor. The older generation were majority all smokers.....they were told it was cool etc. They've decades of inhalation, it's not a surprised a respiratory illness is now responsible for their deaths in my eyes, of course factor in age on top.

The video for the KFC was just sad, seriously people....I mean its alright....its just alright. And that's if you even get it warm.

IF and its a big IF you get it warm its hard to beat a bucket and half a dozen wings
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 19, 2020, 01:28:50 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 19, 2020, 12:10:34 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 19, 2020, 09:17:19 AM
I think it was the assistant chief medical officer over here who stated yesterday it looks like that kids aren't passing the disease on like adults although they've no hard evidence of that yet.

According to a report on LBC yesterday that there hasn't been a case in Denmark or Germany of a teacher catching it when back teaching.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/70-cases-of-covid-19-linked-to-french-schools-days-after-reopening-1000165.html?fbclid=IwAR0jqHvFa1snKPTLYnwuktOry_i4HccBvTOXEA5dn2y1xH1etIt-BnUHvGA

That article is a little light on information.

Mr Blanquer did not specify if the 70 cases of Covid-19 were among students or teachers.
Given that the incubation period for the virus is several days, people are "likely" to have been infected before the reopening of schools, he said.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 19, 2020, 01:29:53 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 19, 2020, 01:23:09 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 19, 2020, 01:11:06 PM
Quote from: tintin25 on May 19, 2020, 12:38:56 PM
How much of a factor is obesity in the number of deaths and people taking ill?

Seen the video of the queues looking to get into the KFC on the Boucher Road last week - unreal.

I would say it's a factor, not thee factor. The older generation were majority all smokers.....they were told it was cool etc. They've decades of inhalation, it's not a surprised a respiratory illness is now responsible for their deaths in my eyes, of course factor in age on top.

The video for the KFC was just sad, seriously people....I mean its alright....its just alright. And that's if you even get it warm.

Nearly as bad as the crowds queuing for the amenity centre in Bangor, one woman sat in the queue for 2 hours just to dump off a microwave..

WTF people.

I don't know why we are surprised either, when it snows here for a day or two people go into meltdown altogether. Those few days before Xmas when shops close for one day (they are still open on Xmas morning) the rush is insane.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 19, 2020, 01:33:48 PM
Quote from: APM on May 19, 2020, 01:06:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 12:17:08 PM
Quote from: APM on May 19, 2020, 12:01:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 11:53:28 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2020, 11:20:35 AM
I expect what?

I do not expect anyone to put themselves at risk in order to give token gestures of hope that things will get back to normal.

Cool we're all in this together.

And the risk is minuscule.

Are you an expert on this?
The one thing that has been a constant on this, is that there are all manner of lay-people offering up their "expertise" on something that even the experts don't understand fully. 

Out of interest:
Do you have children? Yes
Do you have elderly parents? Yes
Do you have an underlying illness or health condition that would put you at risk? No

Here boss, in case you haven't noticed it's a discussion board. People give opinions.

If the figures are to be believed and I see no reason not to at least trust the percentages, even if the totals aren't 100% accurate, this is a disease of the over 70s.

My issue is that you present your opinions as if they are facts. 

Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 11:53:28 AM
Cool we're all in this together.
And the risk is minuscule.

You would think you have assessed the risk based on your extensive study and research in the field of virology. 
The risk is different for different people. It isn't just about the risk to kids, but to teachers and those that they come into contact with.

Here's a fairly balanced article

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-what-are-the-coronavirus-risks-to-children (https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-what-are-the-coronavirus-risks-to-children)

On this basis, we tentatively estimate the mortality risk to children from the 2017-18 flu outbreak was around seven times greater than the risk they currently face from coronavirus.

Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter at the University of Cambridge estimates that the risk to children of catching and then dying from coronavirus is one in 5.3 million.

(That's based on two deaths out of a population of 10.7 million under-15s in England and Wales.)

It means that on average, under-15s face the lowest coronavirus fatality risk of any age group. The over-90s face the highest risk, with a one in 81 chance of catching and dying from the disease, according to Professor Spiegelhalter's calculations.

Asked about the factors policymakers should consider when reopening schools, Professor Russell Viner of the Great Ormond Street Institute of Child Health said yesterday: "Well how do we balance risks in normal life? The total numbers of children who get this [new inflammatory] syndrome are very small."

On this extremely rare syndrome...
Dr Whittaker said "the majority [of children with the syndrome] get better within four to six days, and we have a cohort of them who are already at home with their parents and being closely monitored".

He considers how we mitigate the risk of other causes of death in children: "160-170 die in car crashes [each year]. Those deaths are tragic but also rare. How do we manage those? We take steps to prevent these deaths. We buy child seats, we use seat belts, we sometimes buy better cars. But we don't stop driving."

There's risks but they are tiny.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on May 19, 2020, 01:37:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 19, 2020, 01:23:09 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 19, 2020, 01:11:06 PM
Quote from: tintin25 on May 19, 2020, 12:38:56 PM
How much of a factor is obesity in the number of deaths and people taking ill?

Seen the video of the queues looking to get into the KFC on the Boucher Road last week - unreal.

I would say it's a factor, not thee factor. The older generation were majority all smokers.....they were told it was cool etc. They've decades of inhalation, it's not a surprised a respiratory illness is now responsible for their deaths in my eyes, of course factor in age on top.

The video for the KFC was just sad, seriously people....I mean its alright....its just alright. And that's if you even get it warm.

Nearly as bad as the crowds queuing for the amenity centre in Bangor, one woman sat in the queue for 2 hours just to dump off a microwave..

WTF people.

Maybe queuing in the safety of their cars for a KFC or 2 hours to drop off a microwave has been the highlight of these folks lockdown? A bit of rest bite from the house and the cabin fever madness.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 01:38:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 01:33:48 PM
Here's a fairly balanced article

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-what-are-the-coronavirus-risks-to-children (https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-what-are-the-coronavirus-risks-to-children)

On this basis, we tentatively estimate the mortality risk to children from the 2017-18 flu outbreak was around seven times greater than the risk they currently face from coronavirus.

Professor Sir David Spiegelhalter at the University of Cambridge estimates that the risk to children of catching and then dying from coronavirus is one in 5.3 million.

(That's based on two deaths out of a population of 10.7 million under-15s in England and Wales.)

It means that on average, under-15s face the lowest coronavirus fatality risk of any age group. The over-90s face the highest risk, with a one in 81 chance of catching and dying from the disease, according to Professor Spiegelhalter's calculations.

Asked about the factors policymakers should consider when reopening schools, Professor Russell Viner of the Great Ormond Street Institute of Child Health said yesterday: "Well how do we balance risks in normal life? The total numbers of children who get this [new inflammatory] syndrome are very small."

On this extremely rare syndrome...
Dr Whittaker said "the majority [of children with the syndrome] get better within four to six days, and we have a cohort of them who are already at home with their parents and being closely monitored".

He considers how we mitigate the risk of other causes of death in children: "160-170 die in car crashes [each year]. Those deaths are tragic but also rare. How do we manage those? We take steps to prevent these deaths. We buy child seats, we use seat belts, we sometimes buy better cars. But we don't stop driving."

There's risks but they are tiny.

You are not listening to anything anyone is saying.

No-one, literally no-one, is saying that the risk to kids themselves are not lower than the rest of the population.

However, the risk to adults that are in contact with the kids is not reduced.

Until there is clear evidence that kids are not transmitting - and clear evidence is more than a vague statement somewhere without several peer-reviewed studies to back it up - then opening schools is a high risk decision as they can easily become transmission centres.


edit: As per f**king usual, the UK govt (aided by an inept press) are lying through their teeth.

https://www.thelocal.dk/20200430/reopening-denmark-has-increased-rate-of-infection-spread-ssu

QuoteThe rate at which the coronavirus infection is spreading in Denmark has increased since the country opened schools and kindergartens, but not enough to stop the decline in the number of people infected.
According to a new analysis from Denmark's infectious diseases agency SSI, the so-called reproduction rate has increased from 0.6 to 0.9, still below the crucial figure of 1, which means that each infected person on average infects on average one other over the course of their illness.

edit2: I was hoping to find at least one study of R0 within Denmark with particular focus around the reopening of schools - its not like its of no interest to anyone! I had kinda hoped they'd at least picked a few schools as samples and were testing them to track growth. So far, nothing - all newspaper articles instead which are less than useless for reliable information. If I see anything I'll bring it in here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on May 19, 2020, 01:49:05 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 19, 2020, 01:00:18 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 19, 2020, 12:16:27 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2020, 11:15:35 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 11:05:23 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 19, 2020, 10:51:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 10:48:30 AM
I know schools in reality won't be going back until September. I think that is wrong and can see no logical reason for it.
Because the benefit of 10 random days at school before 2 months off doesn't outweigh the risk of people contracting Covid-19.

That's my logical reason but you are entitled to your own.

Honestly Hardstation, I've been at home minding 2 kids, one at primary school one not school age, since the 16th March. My wife is a nurse and is working. I am at home trying to keep a small business a float paying wages to keep roofs over other families heads who all have small children. We've lost around 90% of turnover and I am into my own personal savings and then probably I'll take out a huge loan and god knows if I will be able to pay it back. It's a huge strain on my mental health.
Now forgive me, but I think that even if the schools open for one day it would be a huge lift to parents around the country and would signal that normality would return someday because at this stage parents who own businesses or are employees are looking for any sort of positive sign right now.
We're all in this together but the reality is we're not and the situation favours some families over others. Maybe Teachers will take this into consideration.
You expect teachers and kids to put themselves at risk of the disease for the token gesture of giving parents hope that one day things will get back to normal? I am genuinely sorry to hear of your circumstances but I still think your request is unreasonable.

Yeah I have to agree with this.
Lots of people are struggling and lots of people will lose jobs and companies and that is going to be really difficult and life changing for those affected.
But Teachers have families too. Kids may not be getting sick in the same numbers as older people, but some do get sick. What if your child was one of them?
What if your child was a carrier and was asymptomatic but infected a class full of other kids, one of which dies as a result. How would that death affect the mental health of other children in the class? Or the teachers who might bring it home to their kids or extended family?
My wife is a P1 teacher, and with kids that age in a school setting it will be impossible to keep them socially distanced. They just want to play. How does one teacher keep perhaps a dozen kids from coming into close personal contact? It's just not practically possible.
My own opinion is that all schools should stay off for a full year. Return around the same time next year that they were closed this year providing that the disease has be controlled. Then just start them back where they left off. P1 is still P1, university students, secondary students everyone back to were they were. A brutal blunt method, but it would keep everyone safe over that period and simplify all the issues around exams, transfers to new schools for p7s etc.

There's a real danger here that schools are being made scapegoats for the failings of a governemnt. Had they acted appropriated in the first instance with testing and tracing, perhaps we could be like South Korea, or New Zealand. But they didnt and we're not and now we're being told to take risks with our kids to get the money flowing again.
I'm sorry, but I wouldn't risk my kids for any money and I wouldn't expect a teacher to put themselves or their extended families at risk either. I'd rather survive and be poor than die with money in my pocket.

I've 6 kids at home, both my parents are shielding due to underlying health problems, my mother in law too. We are both working from home, balancing home schooling and work is not a trivial thing.
The only way out of this, if there is a way out, is not to rush back or we will suffer more for longer. The virus can wait us out and holds all the cards. We have to decide what's most important, getting back to "normal" or surviving.

No TV in your house brick????

There is....I just like riding better  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 19, 2020, 01:53:13 PM
Quote

You are not listening to anything anyone is saying.

No-one, literally no-one, is saying that the risk to kids themselves are not lower than the rest of the population.

However, the risk to adults that are in contact with the kids is not reduced.

Until there is clear evidence that kids are not transmitting - and clear evidence is more than a vague statement somewhere without several peer-reviewed studies to back it up - then opening schools is a high risk decision as they can easily become transmission centres.

Well if they can't open the schools and teachers refuse (which is their right) then make them redundant and close schools permanently until a vaccine is found. Because only a fool thinks things are changing between now and September or whatever arbitrary date in the future.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 02:00:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 01:53:13 PM
Quote

You are not listening to anything anyone is saying.

No-one, literally no-one, is saying that the risk to kids themselves are not lower than the rest of the population.

However, the risk to adults that are in contact with the kids is not reduced.

Until there is clear evidence that kids are not transmitting - and clear evidence is more than a vague statement somewhere without several peer-reviewed studies to back it up - then opening schools is a high risk decision as they can easily become transmission centres.

Well if they can't open the schools and teachers refuse (which is their right) then make them redundant and close schools permanently until a vaccine is found. Because only a fool thinks things are changing between now and September or whatever arbitrary date in the future.

Furlough them?

Teachers are currently providing online classes (such as they are). Its not very time efficient but it is what it is. I'd say most would happily take a furlough rather than persist trying to teach 30 kids that don't follow instruction across the 'net. Certainly those that have to write end of year reports would leap at the chance I'd think!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2020, 02:10:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2020, 01:53:13 PM
Quote

You are not listening to anything anyone is saying.

No-one, literally no-one, is saying that the risk to kids themselves are not lower than the rest of the population.

However, the risk to adults that are in contact with the kids is not reduced.

Until there is clear evidence that kids are not transmitting - and clear evidence is more than a vague statement somewhere without several peer-reviewed studies to back it up - then opening schools is a high risk decision as they can easily become transmission centres.

Well if they can't open the schools and teachers refuse (which is their right) then make them redundant and close schools permanently until a vaccine is found. Because only a fool thinks things are changing between now and September or whatever arbitrary date in the future.

Aye that's it, of all the daft things you've have said on this thread this is the best.

Close the schools: schools are currently open for parents of key workers, so let's say a parent is a nurse and they have kids, stay with me, then they can avail of sending their kids, still with me? To the school for them to carry on! Now do you know of anyone that has a nurse working and has kids that use this?

Make redundant the teachers: brilliant so pay off the teachers some of who, like a lot of employees in other jobs would take redundancy if they have worked about 25+ years and try their hand at something else, the expenditure on that would be huge. Now when the schools get back, who is going to fill those roles? Hmmmm, inexperienced new teachers though with a year losing out on training that will be hard to fix.

And who are these teachers that refuse to go back in, I know off hand about 20 teachers who are busting to get back! The principals what them back but only if it's safe for his staff.

Why have you furloughed your staff? Was it to keep them safe? Or did you just want to get 80% pay from the government?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 19, 2020, 02:14:09 PM
Serious question trailer - do you accept that even if the risk to kids is minuscule - the risk of kids spreading it to teachers or the vulnerable/elderly is much much higher
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 19, 2020, 02:19:51 PM
More confirmed Covid cases in France on November 16. What's going on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 19, 2020, 02:21:44 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 19, 2020, 02:19:51 PM
More confirmed Covid cases in France on November 16. What's going on

Source?

Massive, if true.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 19, 2020, 02:28:59 PM
https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2020-05-11/Was-there-COVID-19-in-France-last-November--QpD871eNhu/index.html (https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2020-05-11/Was-there-COVID-19-in-France-last-November--QpD871eNhu/index.html)

This is the first time I've went looking for a source to something which is said here and it actually has existed ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 19, 2020, 02:59:09 PM
I would say that's why it's so extreme in Italy France Spain and the UK
Many more had it and it just hit those European countries all in one. Massive hit and hospitals just couldn't cope.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on May 19, 2020, 03:22:17 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 19, 2020, 02:28:59 PM
https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2020-05-11/Was-there-COVID-19-in-France-last-November--QpD871eNhu/index.html (https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2020-05-11/Was-there-COVID-19-in-France-last-November--QpD871eNhu/index.html)

This is the first time I've went looking for a source to something which is said here and not given and it actually has existed ;D

I'd heard about this but hadn't seen anything official.
If true, I wonder does this cast doubt as the source of the pandemic? What if it started in France and someone from there travelled to China?
Has to be a possibility if patient 0 is no longer Chinese surely????

The plot thickens.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 03:25:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 19, 2020, 02:28:59 PM
https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2020-05-11/Was-there-COVID-19-in-France-last-November--QpD871eNhu/index.html (https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2020-05-11/Was-there-COVID-19-in-France-last-November--QpD871eNhu/index.html)

This is the first time I've went looking for a source to something which is said here and not given and it actually has existed ;D

Its interesting all right.

Does that mean the virus mutated in Wuhan and then came back?

There is absolutely no way that the pneumonia cases that were evident in March & April could have been replicated though December without anyone noticing. Even moreso in January when the world was on lookout for it. When you consider the spike in death rates compared to the average and the strain on ICUs this would have put, its simply not feasible that its all of (i) the same strain of virus, (ii) been prevalent since sometime in November and (iii) been freely transmitting through the population, without there being red flags raised.


Here is the original work without journalist "interpretation":

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920301643?via%3Dihub


I suppose it is possible by astronomical fluke there is another common coronavirus in the wild that has the same 3 genes that are targetted in the test. But that's unlikely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on May 19, 2020, 03:26:31 PM
Could it be a problem with the test?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 03:27:11 PM
Quote from: APM on May 19, 2020, 03:26:31 PM
Could it be a problem with the test?

The link I included does have a section noting how the test could have went awry. Odds are against, but not impossible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 19, 2020, 03:40:00 PM
Trump will have a coronary (if not from hydroxychloroquine) if he finds out this thing originated in France and not Chiy Na.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 19, 2020, 03:44:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 03:25:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 19, 2020, 02:28:59 PM
https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2020-05-11/Was-there-COVID-19-in-France-last-November--QpD871eNhu/index.html (https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2020-05-11/Was-there-COVID-19-in-France-last-November--QpD871eNhu/index.html)

This is the first time I've went looking for a source to something which is said here and not given and it actually has existed ;D

Its interesting all right.

Does that mean the virus mutated in Wuhan and then came back?

There is absolutely no way that the pneumonia cases that were evident in March & April could have been replicated though December without anyone noticing. Even moreso in January when the world was on lookout for it. When you consider the spike in death rates compared to the average and the strain on ICUs this would have put, its simply not feasible that its all of (i) the same strain of virus, (ii) been prevalent since sometime in November and (iii) been freely transmitting through the population, without there being red flags raised.


Here is the original work without journalist "interpretation":

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920301643?via%3Dihub


I suppose it is possible by astronomical fluke there is another common coronavirus in the wild that has the same 3 genes that are targetted in the test. But that's unlikely.

In retrospect, it's not impossible, if you don't know exactly what you are looking for - from the sciencedirect article you linked. Is there an argument that the medical community....yes, I appreciate it is slim pickings, but have they been caught napping? -

While China was facing the COVID-19 outbreak, European countries were struggling with seasonal influenza [6]. Since clinical symptomatology between COVID-19 and ILIs is similar, we therefore decided to retrospectively look for SARS-CoV-2 in respiratory samples collected in the intensive care unit (ICU) of our hospital near Paris, France.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on May 19, 2020, 03:44:28 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 19, 2020, 03:40:00 PM
Trump will have a coronary (if not from hydroxychloroquine) if he finds out this thing originated in France and not Chiy Na.

no it will just be cast off as fake news.
Trump is never wrong. The American equivalent of Kim Jong Un, he's every bit as dangerous.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 03:47:46 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 19, 2020, 03:44:01 PM
In retrospect, it's not impossible, if you don't know exactly what you are looking for

Consider the one European place we know got completely caught out - Lombardy in Italy.

They literally had overflowing hospitals dedicated almost entirely to treating COVID (or other absolute emergencies).

That happened in Feb/March.

How could that not have happened anywhere else across Europe if it was freely roaming in November/December?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 19, 2020, 04:01:53 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 03:47:46 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 19, 2020, 03:44:01 PM
In retrospect, it's not impossible, if you don't know exactly what you are looking for

Consider the one European place we know got completely caught out - Lombardy in Italy.

They literally had overflowing hospitals dedicated almost entirely to treating COVID (or other absolute emergencies).

That happened in Feb/March.

How could that not have happened anywhere else across Europe if it was freely roaming in November/December?

Lombardy's hospital crisis was largely self inflicted.

QuoteLombardy, one Europe's wealthiest and most productive areas, has been disproportionately hit by Covid-19. As of March 26, it held the grim record of nearly 35,000 novel coronavirus cases and 5,000 deaths in a population of 10 million. Veneto, by contrast, fared significantly better, with 7,000 cases and 287 deaths in a population of 5 million, despite experiencing sustained community spread early on.

The trajectories of these two regions have been shaped by a multitude of factors outside the control of policymakers, including Lombardy's greater population density and higher number of cases when the crisis erupted. But it's becoming increasingly apparent that different public health choices made early in the cycle of the pandemic also had an impact.


...

Following the guidance from public health authorities in the central government, Lombardy opted instead for a more conservative approach to testing. On a per capita basis, it has so far conducted half of the tests conducted in Veneto and had a much stronger focus only on symptomatic cases — and has so far made limited investments in proactive tracing, home care and monitoring, and protection of health care workers.

The set of policies enacted in Veneto are thought to have considerably reduced the burden on hospitals and minimized the risk of Covid-19 spreading in medical facilities, a problem that has greatly impacted hospitals in Lombardy.

https://hbr.org/2020/03/lessons-from-italys-response-to-coronavirus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 19, 2020, 04:05:15 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 03:47:46 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 19, 2020, 03:44:01 PM
In retrospect, it's not impossible, if you don't know exactly what you are looking for

Consider the one European place we know got completely caught out - Lombardy in Italy.

They literally had overflowing hospitals dedicated almost entirely to treating COVID (or other absolute emergencies).

That happened in Feb/March.

How could that not have happened anywhere else across Europe if it was freely roaming in November/December?

How do we know that there wasn't a spate of deaths in France / Spain...wherever pre Xmas which would have been put down to common cold / nature / pneumonia, all recorded separately of course no alarm bells would ring. But, you can only join the dots looking back.

It's all speculation. We simply don't know what the wards were like in other countries because it wouldn't have been news worthy for probably what would have been put down to a variety of reasons.

The more evidence that is gathered retrospectively though the better - if this coronavirus is conclusively proven to have been in existence longer than common thought, it changes absolutely everything.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 04:06:11 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 19, 2020, 03:44:28 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 19, 2020, 03:40:00 PM
Trump will have a coronary (if not from hydroxychloroquine) if he finds out this thing originated in France and not Chiy Na.

no it will just be cast off as fake news.
Trump is never wrong. The American equivalent of Kim Jong Un, he's every bit as dangerous.

FREEDOM FRIES are back in fashion these days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on May 19, 2020, 04:13:37 PM
I wonder about the test.  Rumours of lots numbers of false positives and false negatives reported.  Apparently, shouldn't be used to test people not showing symptoms and isn't as reliable after 6 days since the onset of symptoms.  However, the approach of the UKG is to test as many people of possible with no real testing strategy, just to be seen to be testing. 

Is this the same test that is being used in Europe and beyond?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 19, 2020, 04:13:44 PM
748 Tests in the Premier League, 6 players/staff over 3 clubs involved have tested positive

That's actually quite promising?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 19, 2020, 04:24:34 PM
Was thinking the deaths in December and January could have been put down as normal flu. The big numbers we see are obviously higher than normal but looking at the overall picture not massive. I for one was shocked that 450 die every day from cancer in the uk. Shocked I was but it's normal
That's good news for the Premier league to have only had 6 cases. Germany I think had 20
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 04:41:40 PM
Quote from: five points on May 19, 2020, 04:01:53 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 03:47:46 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 19, 2020, 03:44:01 PM
In retrospect, it's not impossible, if you don't know exactly what you are looking for

Consider the one European place we know got completely caught out - Lombardy in Italy.

They literally had overflowing hospitals dedicated almost entirely to treating COVID (or other absolute emergencies).

That happened in Feb/March.

How could that not have happened anywhere else across Europe if it was freely roaming in November/December?

Lombardy's hospital crisis was largely self inflicted.

QuoteLombardy, one Europe's wealthiest and most productive areas, has been disproportionately hit by Covid-19. As of March 26, it held the grim record of nearly 35,000 novel coronavirus cases and 5,000 deaths in a population of 10 million. Veneto, by contrast, fared significantly better, with 7,000 cases and 287 deaths in a population of 5 million, despite experiencing sustained community spread early on.

The trajectories of these two regions have been shaped by a multitude of factors outside the control of policymakers, including Lombardy's greater population density and higher number of cases when the crisis erupted. But it's becoming increasingly apparent that different public health choices made early in the cycle of the pandemic also had an impact.


...

Following the guidance from public health authorities in the central government, Lombardy opted instead for a more conservative approach to testing. On a per capita basis, it has so far conducted half of the tests conducted in Veneto and had a much stronger focus only on symptomatic cases — and has so far made limited investments in proactive tracing, home care and monitoring, and protection of health care workers.

The set of policies enacted in Veneto are thought to have considerably reduced the burden on hospitals and minimized the risk of Covid-19 spreading in medical facilities, a problem that has greatly impacted hospitals in Lombardy.

https://hbr.org/2020/03/lessons-from-italys-response-to-coronavirus

You miss my point.

If EVERYWHERE else was not aware of its presence, they wouldn't even have been focussing on symptomatic cases. Which would have been even worse.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on May 19, 2020, 04:43:21 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 19, 2020, 03:40:00 PM
Trump will have a coronary

Hopefully.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 19, 2020, 04:45:17 PM
Quote from: five points on May 19, 2020, 04:01:53 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 03:47:46 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 19, 2020, 03:44:01 PM
In retrospect, it's not impossible, if you don't know exactly what you are looking for

Consider the one European place we know got completely caught out - Lombardy in Italy.

They literally had overflowing hospitals dedicated almost entirely to treating COVID (or other absolute emergencies).

That happened in Feb/March.

How could that not have happened anywhere else across Europe if it was freely roaming in November/December?

Lombardy's hospital crisis was largely self inflicted.

QuoteLombardy, one Europe's wealthiest and most productive areas, has been disproportionately hit by Covid-19. As of March 26, it held the grim record of nearly 35,000 novel coronavirus cases and 5,000 deaths in a population of 10 million. Veneto, by contrast, fared significantly better, with 7,000 cases and 287 deaths in a population of 5 million, despite experiencing sustained community spread early on.

The trajectories of these two regions have been shaped by a multitude of factors outside the control of policymakers, including Lombardy's greater population density and higher number of cases when the crisis erupted. But it's becoming increasingly apparent that different public health choices made early in the cycle of the pandemic also had an impact.


...

Following the guidance from public health authorities in the central government, Lombardy opted instead for a more conservative approach to testing. On a per capita basis, it has so far conducted half of the tests conducted in Veneto and had a much stronger focus only on symptomatic cases — and has so far made limited investments in proactive tracing, home care and monitoring, and protection of health care workers.

The set of policies enacted in Veneto are thought to have considerably reduced the burden on hospitals and minimized the risk of Covid-19 spreading in medical facilities, a problem that has greatly impacted hospitals in Lombardy.

https://hbr.org/2020/03/lessons-from-italys-response-to-coronavirus

Boris and Dom learned lots from Italy.

They learned to clear the decks of the elderly and put them into Care homes untested and then issue directives that those with CV-19 symptoms in the Care sector were to stay there and receive palliative care at the best.

Hey presto, the NHS wasn't overrun, success in their books.

Oh, and only count the hospital deaths until people catch on.

Oh, and stop doing country comparisons until we look really bad.

Oh, see that R factor thing, stop talking about it when it goes above 1.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 04:45:47 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 19, 2020, 04:05:15 PM
How do we know that there wasn't a spate of deaths in France / Spain...wherever pre Xmas which would have been put down to common cold / nature / pneumonia, all recorded separately of course no alarm bells would ring. But, you can only join the dots looking back.

That would have been raised straight off the bat in Feb when it "first" arrived in Europe.

Look here, sample study from Nembro, Lombardy:

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1835

(https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/369/bmj.m1835/F3.large.jpg?width=800&height=600)

I cannot emphasis enough - it doesn't tie up that the strain we know now was definitely in Europe in November.


Or here:

https://www.cattaneo.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Colombo-Impicciatore-Covid-09_eng.pdf

Fig 1 - you are looking at anywhere between a 30 and 140% increase in death rate compared to 5 year average running 21st Feb to 21st March.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 19, 2020, 04:52:23 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 19, 2020, 04:45:17 PM
Boris and Dom learned lots from Italy.

They learned to clear the decks of the elderly and put them into Care homes untested and then issue directives that those with CV-19 symptoms in the Care sector were to stay there and receive palliative care at the best.

Hey presto, the NHS wasn't overrun, success in their books.


Same things happened in the Republic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 19, 2020, 04:57:38 PM
Quote from: five points on May 19, 2020, 04:52:23 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 19, 2020, 04:45:17 PM
Boris and Dom learned lots from Italy.

They learned to clear the decks of the elderly and put them into Care homes untested and then issue directives that those with CV-19 symptoms in the Care sector were to stay there and receive palliative care at the best.

Hey presto, the NHS wasn't overrun, success in their books.


Same things happened in the Republic.

Well then Leo and Co need called out on it just the same way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 19, 2020, 05:24:02 PM
Would it now be possible that the north of Ireland move quicker than the south now? Just the 20 new cases in the north today things are looking promising and they seem to be on top of things. Or maybe they will work the All island approach as both are now running at the same pace.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 19, 2020, 05:58:39 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 19, 2020, 05:24:02 PM
Would it now be possible that the north of Ireland move quicker than the south now? Just the 20 new cases in the north today things are looking promising and they seem to be on top of things. Or maybe they will work the All island approach as both are now running at the same pace.

The North are still way behind on testing. Less tests = less cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 06:07:10 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 19, 2020, 05:24:02 PM
Would it now be possible that the north of Ireland move quicker than the south now? Just the 20 new cases in the north today things are looking promising and they seem to be on top of things. Or maybe they will work the All island approach as both are now running at the same pace.

I think they need to start sharing (assuming they've the wit to try and gather it) information on how they suspect these new cases emerged.

Were other family members carriers?
Were they only out of the house to shop?
Were they out working?
etc
etc

20 new cases is low enough for the authorities to start saturation testing in every potential contact around them. If they can "capture" the virus in those people before it progresses to day 8 or whatever, then it'd stop the spread from them.

A few weeks of that and it really would getting to the point they could look at significant relaxation of restrictions.

Problem is I suppose - the asymptomatic carriers - where do they fit into all this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 06:18:34 PM
It has been put to me elsewhere, that with a case mortality rate of ~1% and 60,000 UK deaths, that is 6 million people exposed, or around 10% of UK population.

Big assumption on case mortality. But that assumption works both ways. If its a real mortality of 0.5%, then its maybe 20% exposure. If its 2% mortality, 5% exposure.


Anti-body tests on sample sets of the population might go a long way to indicating what real mortality is.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2020, 06:21:34 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 19, 2020, 05:58:39 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 19, 2020, 05:24:02 PM
Would it now be possible that the north of Ireland move quicker than the south now? Just the 20 new cases in the north today things are looking promising and they seem to be on top of things. Or maybe they will work the All island approach as both are now running at the same pace.

The North are still way behind on testing. Less tests = less cases.

It's not a competition though I'm tired of the but France has this and Germany do this and blah blah ffs! Catch yourself on. If you've got symptoms you can get tested, that's official 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 19, 2020, 06:26:22 PM
Getting more data would certainly be ideal and the quicker the track trace and isolate comes into play the better things become. A bit of a dispute at today's daily briefing in the uk where the minister pushing for the schools to open wasn't for budging and the journalists said that from what he was hearing track trace and isolate wouldn't be in place. The women scientist more a less said that wouldn't be any good for schools to go back unless ready.
Firing them under the bus
South of Ireland 16 new deaths and 51 new cases a drop from 88 new cases yesterday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 19, 2020, 06:53:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2020, 06:21:34 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 19, 2020, 05:58:39 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 19, 2020, 05:24:02 PM
Would it now be possible that the north of Ireland move quicker than the south now? Just the 20 new cases in the north today things are looking promising and they seem to be on top of things. Or maybe they will work the All island approach as both are now running at the same pace.

The North are still way behind on testing. Less tests = less cases.

It's not a competition though I'm tired of the but France has this and Germany do this and blah blah ffs! Catch yourself on. If you've got symptoms you can get tested, that's official
It's not about competitions. The whole island of Ireland should have the same testing and track/tracing rate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 19, 2020, 06:57:34 PM
Exactly Captain
Thing should be the same with track and trace with the amount that travels over the border
Big big statement from Tony Holahan saying they have eliminated the virus in the community in the south. Did he really need to say that? People will get complacent.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 19, 2020, 06:58:41 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 19, 2020, 06:53:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2020, 06:21:34 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 19, 2020, 05:58:39 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 19, 2020, 05:24:02 PM
Would it now be possible that the north of Ireland move quicker than the south now? Just the 20 new cases in the north today things are looking promising and they seem to be on top of things. Or maybe they will work the All island approach as both are now running at the same pace.

The North are still way behind on testing. Less tests = less cases.

It's not a competition though I'm tired of the but France has this and Germany do this and blah blah ffs! Catch yourself on. If you've got symptoms you can get tested, that's official
It's not about competitions. The whole island of Ireland should have the same testing and track/tracing rate.
the north will f**k it up no matter what with their incompetence and 'superior' attitude, you can be sure of that  :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2020, 07:01:23 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 19, 2020, 06:58:41 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 19, 2020, 06:53:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2020, 06:21:34 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 19, 2020, 05:58:39 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 19, 2020, 05:24:02 PM
Would it now be possible that the north of Ireland move quicker than the south now? Just the 20 new cases in the north today things are looking promising and they seem to be on top of things. Or maybe they will work the All island approach as both are now running at the same pace.

The North are still way behind on testing. Less tests = less cases.

It's not a competition though I'm tired of the but France has this and Germany do this and blah blah ffs! Catch yourself on. If you've got symptoms you can get tested, that's official
It's not about competitions. The whole island of Ireland should have the same testing and track/tracing rate.
the north will f**k it up no matter what with their incompetence and 'superior' attitude, you can be sure of that  :(

f**k what up exactly?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 07:06:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2020, 07:01:23 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 19, 2020, 06:58:41 PM
the north will f**k it up no matter what with their incompetence and 'superior' attitude, you can be sure of that  :(
f**k what up exactly?

The move from a locked down society to one where restrictions are easing.

No doubt they'll f**k up track/tracing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2020, 07:16:17 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 07:06:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2020, 07:01:23 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 19, 2020, 06:58:41 PM
the north will f**k it up no matter what with their incompetence and 'superior' attitude, you can be sure of that  :(
f**k what up exactly?

The move from a locked down society to one where restrictions are easing.

No doubt they'll f**k up track/tracing.

Bars restaurants cafes schools still closed and airports running at a threadbare minimum and doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon. The current situation is down to people doing social distancing also.

I don't see an immediate upsurge of breaking that. We are going to get a second wave and no one has said we won't, the whole purpose is to flatten the curve and not overload the NHS, we can't beat the virus, fingers crossed we don't get that sharp rise, but we'll know in 3 or more weeks, act accordingly.

What is the hang up on track and trace? Why is it not being implemented? Money staff software?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 19, 2020, 07:50:45 PM
I was reading there - track and trace dropped because they didn't have enough tests. Scientists advise schools don't open until track and trace. Tory lies aplenty still it would seem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2020, 08:02:17 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 19, 2020, 07:50:45 PM
I was reading there - track and trace dropped because they didn't have enough tests. Scientists advise schools don't open until track and trace. Tory lies aplenty still it would seem.

But the government want kids back at school? Oh I give up, where's the wine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 19, 2020, 08:17:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2020, 07:16:17 PM
Bars restaurants cafes schools still closed and airports running at a threadbare minimum and doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon. The current situation is down to people doing social distancing also.

I don't see an immediate upsurge of breaking that. We are going to get a second wave and no one has said we won't, the whole purpose is to flatten the curve and not overload the NHS, we can't beat the virus, fingers crossed we don't get that sharp rise, but we'll know in 3 or more weeks, act accordingly.

While annoyingly ignorant at times, Trailer and Smurfy do have a point about the economy and other factors outside of CoV-2. Its unfeasible to continue to close everything down for 12 months.

So while it is correct that Stormont don't lift lockdown just yet, they need to be getting prepared to fine tune it. Those preparations really should be almost complete by now and they should have started background testing and sampling.

Of course, they aren't and they haven't.

They are like ignorant little tribes in a backwater somewhere that have no idea on what is happening in the wider world. Then they think they are up to date when they are really about 2 months behind and only a fraction informed.


Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2020, 07:16:17 PM
What is the hang up on track and trace? Why is it not being implemented? Money staff software?

Who the f**k knows.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 19, 2020, 08:24:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2020, 08:02:17 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 19, 2020, 07:50:45 PM
I was reading there - track and trace dropped because they didn't have enough tests. Scientists advise schools don't open until track and trace. Tory lies aplenty still it would seem.

But the government want kids back at school? Oh I give up, where's the wine?

Not one f**k could they give.

On the subject of mental health a boy in the team at work is really struggling. He does at the best of times but this lockdown is really really getting to him. It will get to a good number of people like that unfortunately  :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 20, 2020, 09:07:59 AM
Cross border track and trace restarted.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cross-border-contact-tracing-resumes-in-northern-ireland-1.4257505 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cross-border-contact-tracing-resumes-in-northern-ireland-1.4257505)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 20, 2020, 09:11:27 AM
Right I think we are now in agreement that schools should be kept closed until September. Probably is wise to keep kids off known that they would only be back for a few weeks. Wise move
Next thing Leo and co to move every 3 weeks. Is it now possible that things may move quicker after Holahans comments yesterday. Yes I believe the South have it crushed in the community but I still think him coming out and saying it was stupid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 20, 2020, 09:24:29 AM
Phased return in September for schools. 15/16 to a class, god help the timetable staff on that one. But at least that's a fixed date and now they can put in the protective measures required to help prevent spread.

There might be teachers like in all jobs who are part of the shielded group who have medical issues which would prevent them going back, they may have to wait or be paid off, who knows. But let's not paint them all   ;)

By that time we'll know if the second wave has come surely?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 20, 2020, 09:41:49 AM
With both north and south now track and tracing the second wave would be unlikely. They seem to be on top of things and we must give credit where it is due. Ireland making Great Britain look like a shitshow.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 20, 2020, 10:46:41 AM
I have to admit, this is giving me pause for thought on reopening schools:

http://ncirs.org.au/sites/default/files/2020-04/NCIRS%20NSW%20Schools%20COVID_Summary_FINAL%20public_26%20April%202020.pdf

Given its the tail of the Australian summer, that will have connotations for persistence on surfaces (due to heat), so it may not quite hold true here - but its definitely worthy of further investigation.


[Note that it does contradict the Danish experience with the R0 uptick coinciding with reopening schools. Its never a straightforward one size fits all answer.]


edit: Screw that. France has it entirely different:

https://www.lemonde.fr/education/article/2020/05/19/soixante-dix-ecoles-fermees-pour-des-cas-averes-ou-suspectes-de-covid-19_6040118_1473685.html?fbclid=IwAR01C9K9bZEoiiO4-KgXCQRez7ZxK_xOrPgnhtvrjrEXUNXDUgjAUtdcK3o

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-france-school-cases-reopen-lockdown-a9520386.html


edit2: And here is a snippet on the Danes:
https://www.euronews.com/2020/05/18/analysis-should-children-go-back-to-school-during-a-pandemic

QuoteIn Denmark, schools are living with the new normal. Pupils from different classes are given a separate entrance, after which they follow a one-way system to and from their classrooms so that they don't brush past others on the stairs and in corridors.

Once inside the classroom, each child has a double desk to themselves, ensuring a two-metre distance from each other.

And just like all of us, they are getting used to washing their hands... a lot.

As for break times, it is up to Denmark's teachers to become police officers when it comes to maintaining the two-metre rule.

I'd think you'd have a hard time getting some of the brats here to adhere to that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 20, 2020, 10:58:29 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0520/1139477-hibergene-diagnostics-covid-19-test/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 20, 2020, 11:03:24 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 20, 2020, 10:58:29 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0520/1139477-hibergene-diagnostics-covid-19-test/

Brilliant.

A test with an hour's turnaround and a small machine will go a long way to making saturation testing of traced contacts that much easier.


edit: and this is good news too:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/05/feared-reactivation-of-covid-19-infections-disputed-by-new-data/

QuotePeople who recover from COVID-19 but test positive for the virus again days or weeks later are not shedding viral particles and are not infectious, according to data released Tuesday by the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

I'd recommend you read the link, there is more to it and Beth Mole always does a good job simplifying the complex.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 20, 2020, 12:48:58 PM
You have to give it to the Irish Government they have got things in place with good results now. Things seem to be really working.
I ask they question was it a massive overreaction? Hospitals in Ireland both north and south are basically empty. Empty
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 20, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 20, 2020, 12:48:58 PM
You have to give it to the Irish Government they have got things in place with good results now. Things seem to be really working.
I ask they question was it a massive overreaction? Hospitals in Ireland both north and south are basically empty. Empty

It seems that once they sorted the hospitals and nursing homes with PPE etc the problem became manageable.

I personally think the lockdown was an overreaction but businesses were already quietening down and closing even before it started.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mouview on May 20, 2020, 01:05:19 PM
Quote from: five points on May 20, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 20, 2020, 12:48:58 PM
You have to give it to the Irish Government they have got things in place with good results now. Things seem to be really working.
I ask they question was it a massive overreaction? Hospitals in Ireland both north and south are basically empty. Empty

It seems that once they sorted the hospitals and nursing homes with PPE etc the problem became manageable.

I personally think the lockdown was an overreaction but businesses were already quietening down and closing even before it started.

As WHO's Sligo native Mike Ryan said, better to be first than waiting to be right.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 20, 2020, 01:11:45 PM
Yes agree on both points. Better safe than sorry and as five points said things were starting to slow down for businesses anyway as the world was coming to a standstill
Now Leo and co have giving out a planned opening phase but with 3 weeks in between each one.
I would like to think they may reassess that with maybe a 2 week window
So basically it would read
Phase 1 May 18
Phase 2 June 1
Phase 3 June 15
Phase 4 June 29
Phase 5 July 13

Thoughts?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 20, 2020, 01:15:24 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 20, 2020, 01:11:45 PM
Yes agree on both points. Better safe than sorry and as five points said things were starting to slow down for businesses anyway as the world was coming to a standstill
Now Leo and co have giving out a planned opening phase but with 3 weeks in between each one.
I would like to think they may reassess that with maybe a 2 week window
So basically it would read
Phase 1 May 18
Phase 2 June 1
Phase 3 June 15
Phase 4 June 29
Phase 5 July 13

Thoughts?

I think that would be wise. They can always warn that its contingent on all going smoothly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on May 20, 2020, 01:16:02 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/superspreader-events-may-responsible-80-percent-coronavirus/

"A small number of so-called "superspreading" events appear to be responsible for the great majority of coronavirus cases, raising the prospect of the virus being controlled if those events can be reliably pinned down.
Many infectious diseases follow an "20/80" rule, whereby the majority of cases are caused by a small number of infectious individuals. These include pathogens such as HIV, measles and Ebola, as well as the coronaviruses Mers and Sars.

Already, many superspreading venues are known. Hospitals, nursing homes, large dormitories, food processing plans and food markets have all been associated with major outbreaks of Covid-19."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 20, 2020, 01:26:45 PM
Some good information sea. That's why things can move quicker they now know stuff that they didn't 2 months ago. That along with track trace and isolate is key to this being kept under wraps. I think we are going to have to live with it for now until we get a vaccine but things are turning and turning very quick. Hopefully more good numbers today
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 20, 2020, 01:48:38 PM
I think its fair to say most of us are a lot more optimistic on things now than even just a week ago. Between very preliminary results on vaccines showing promise, new faster tests and more information being accrued on it, things are starting to look up.

As long as we don't get white line fever and move stupidly quickly.



[Of course, that doesn't mean the economy will snap back to normal or anything. I still fully expect to be seeking a new job in a few weeks, but it should be fractionally easier to find a job if things are on the bounce rather than still spiralling.]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 20, 2020, 01:59:15 PM
Sorry to hear that radio
Hopefully Ireland now move as 1 and move through the phasing process that bit quicker if it is safe to do so.
I'll not lie this has been a tough time for myself mentally so seeing light at the end of the tunnel is good
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2020, 02:00:09 PM
9000 jobs going in Rolls Royce (Mostly) in the UK. I expect to start to see the economic impact to start rearing it's head now unfortunately. Obviously aerospace will prob be one of the worst hit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 20, 2020, 02:19:54 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 20, 2020, 01:48:38 PM
I think its fair to say most of us are a lot more optimistic on things now than even just a week ago. Between very preliminary results on vaccines showing promise, new faster tests and more information being accrued on it, things are starting to look up.

As long as we don't get white line fever and move stupidly quickly.



[Of course, that doesn't mean the economy will snap back to normal or anything. I still fully expect to be seeking a new job in a few weeks, but it should be fractionally easier to find a job if things are on the bounce rather than still spiralling.]

New faster tests could be a good help. Even if they are not 100% reliable if you test again, perhaps even with a different techology you would get a high rate of sucess.
You could be tested before going on a plane, as would all airline staff daily.
People in working in bars and restaurants could be tested daily, one customer may infect a few others, but one waiter could infect dozens. Likewise staff in homes, hospitals etc.
Even in the GAA, if testing was easy and cheap enough, you could test every player before a game or test them before they go on the bus to the game.
People have suggested that you test everyone in an area, then the same again a week later, and you'd basically be able to wipe  the thing out. A few interations of this over a month and the country would be free. You'd have people acting  the maggot and refusing to get tested but just quarantine them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on May 20, 2020, 03:56:22 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 20, 2020, 01:11:45 PM
Yes agree on both points. Better safe than sorry and as five points said things were starting to slow down for businesses anyway as the world was coming to a standstill
Now Leo and co have giving out a planned opening phase but with 3 weeks in between each one.
I would like to think they may reassess that with maybe a 2 week window
So basically it would read
Phase 1 May 18
Phase 2 June 1
Phase 3 June 15
Phase 4 June 29
Phase 5 July 13

Thoughts?

I think its better to maintain the 3 week interval.
That allows a week for the new measures to fall into place, and then 2 more weeks to study whether or not that loosening as had a detrimental impact on spread of the virus. With the incubation period you would need that amount of time to safely assess the impact.
No point rushing things now when ground work has been done.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on May 20, 2020, 04:20:43 PM
So just 20 ICU beds in use in North, a very positive sign
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 20, 2020, 08:27:11 PM
Good to see the cases in the ROI fall below 100 for the last 5 days in a row. Recoveries is at 21,060 and the amount of active cases stand at 1684.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 20, 2020, 08:44:07 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 20, 2020, 08:27:11 PM
Good to see the cases in the ROI fall below 100 for the last 5 days in a row. Recoveries is at 21,060 and the amount of active cases stand at 1684.

Come July we should be having restaurant and bars with open air facilities opening, albeit with reduced numbers to create the required distance, though you ain't allowed to go to the toilet lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 21, 2020, 09:39:04 AM
The South of Ireland has the lowest R rate in Europe at 0.25 approx.
Great news
So I asked the question why move so slow?
The headline news on BBC ulster now is the catastrophic number of cancer patients which are now backlogged with stuff that have been put off this 3 months
Overwhelming and will cause a lot of deaths
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 21, 2020, 09:41:48 AM
Are the pictures from the Beaches in England doing rounds yesterday legit do you think? There does look like some effort to keep a bit of a radius which leads me to believe they could well be.

The English have no common sense. Although it's looking like a warm day today.....Portrush will be a test.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 21, 2020, 09:54:42 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 21, 2020, 09:39:04 AM
The South of Ireland has the lowest R rate in Europe at 0.25 approx.
Great news
So I asked the question why move so slow?
The headline news on BBC ulster now is the catastrophic number of cancer patients which are now backlogged with stuff that have been put off this 3 months
Overwhelming and will cause a lot of deaths

Maybe just trust them considering they seem to have done things right?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 21, 2020, 10:12:00 AM
I hear what you are saying true but Leo did say he will follow the science. If things need to slow down he will slow it down and if things need to move on he will move things on.
You get me
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 10:18:32 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 21, 2020, 09:39:04 AM
So I asked the question why move so slow?

For every week they keep it at 0.25, then its so much easier to try and keep a lid on it when they do open up.

If there are 200 carriers now out in the wild, that becomes 50 in ~2 weeks.


Put like this - with the exact same track/trace operation in place, another week or two of R = 0.25 means they could open up things quite a bit more aggressively - or rather - they could a minor misstep or two in easing the wrong lockdown measures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on May 21, 2020, 10:52:45 AM
Is there a link to the 0.25 rate ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 21, 2020, 11:16:02 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 21, 2020, 09:39:04 AM
The South of Ireland has the lowest R rate in Europe at 0.25 approx.
Great news

Who says this? It seems improbable. Link please.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 21, 2020, 11:34:11 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 21, 2020, 11:16:02 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 21, 2020, 09:39:04 AM
The South of Ireland has the lowest R rate in Europe at 0.25 approx.
Great news

Who says this? It seems improbable. Link please.

In the UK I read the R rate is not a here and now figure but a week or two behind what is happening today - is this the case in the South as well?

If the .25 figure is accurate and a couple of weeks behind that would change the picture considerably............
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 21, 2020, 12:16:11 PM
There looks like there's a possibility of a pregnancy style test on the mass market by July and could cost about £25, would take 30 minutes to get a result too.

Perhaps there is hope for a championship this year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 21, 2020, 12:21:29 PM
Can anyone find that link to the 0.25 R rate??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 21, 2020, 12:26:49 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 21, 2020, 12:16:11 PM
There looks like there's a possibility of a pregnancy style test on the mass market by July and could cost about £25, would take 30 minutes to get a result too.

Perhaps there is hope for a championship this year.

My aim isn't great....This could be tricky.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on May 21, 2020, 12:28:24 PM
Ah that moment when the wife comes at ye smilin wavin somethin shes just peed on - miss those times

😃😃
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 21, 2020, 12:32:26 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 21, 2020, 11:34:11 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 21, 2020, 11:16:02 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 21, 2020, 09:39:04 AM
The South of Ireland has the lowest R rate in Europe at 0.25 approx.
Great news

Who says this? It seems improbable. Link please.

In the UK I read the R rate is not a here and now figure but a week or two behind what is happening today - is this the case in the South as well?

If the .25 figure is accurate and a couple of weeks behind that would change the picture considerably............

The r-rate is going to be "old" everywhere.

You have to collect the data to generate it. And the data represents how many other people an infectious person will effect. Which can obviously change over time, including increasing again if people start throwing caution to the wind too soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 21, 2020, 12:48:34 PM
Yeah it has to be old everywhere does it not due to the nature of it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 21, 2020, 01:03:39 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on May 21, 2020, 12:28:24 PM
Ah that moment when the wife comes at ye smilin wavin somethin shes just peed on - miss those times

😃😃

Look, I near had a heart attack when my wife did one about 3 years ago, put me of sex with my wife for life, thankfully it was negative :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 01:06:49 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 21, 2020, 12:16:11 PM
There looks like there's a possibility of a pregnancy style test on the mass market by July and could cost about £25, would take 30 minutes to get a result too.

Perhaps there is hope for a championship this year.

That'd be massive. It'd be essentially killed off in 4 weeks. [£25 is a pittance if everyone was tested compared to the cost of continued lockdown - it'd be ~£1.75B for everyone in the UK - a bargain at twice the price]

Even better, anyone trying to get international flights has to get a test at both departing (no embarking prior to result) and arriving airports (no leaving airport prior to result).

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on May 21, 2020, 01:24:27 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 01:06:49 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 21, 2020, 12:16:11 PM
There looks like there's a possibility of a pregnancy style test on the mass market by July and could cost about £25, would take 30 minutes to get a result too.

Perhaps there is hope for a championship this year.

That'd be massive. It'd be essentially killed off in 4 weeks. [£25 is a pittance if everyone was tested compared to the cost of continued lockdown - it'd be ~£1.75B for everyone in the UK - a bargain at twice the price]

Even better, anyone trying to get international flights has to get a test at both departing (no embarking prior to result) and arriving airports (no leaving airport prior to result).

Assuming they can get billions on the market to support such an approach.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 21, 2020, 01:35:16 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 01:06:49 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 21, 2020, 12:16:11 PM
There looks like there's a possibility of a pregnancy style test on the mass market by July and could cost about £25, would take 30 minutes to get a result too.

Perhaps there is hope for a championship this year.

That'd be massive. It'd be essentially killed off in 4 weeks. [£25 is a pittance if everyone was tested compared to the cost of continued lockdown - it'd be ~£1.75B for everyone in the UK - a bargain at twice the price]

Even better, anyone trying to get international flights has to get a test at both departing (no embarking prior to result) and arriving airports (no leaving airport prior to result).

Legal minefield though wouldn't you say? Your infringing on various freedoms and privacy, albeit for the greater good.

I like the idea, but realistically, could we implement this at airports? Maybe the actual carrier will have to provide this as part of the overall fare agreement?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 01:40:49 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 21, 2020, 01:24:27 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 01:06:49 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 21, 2020, 12:16:11 PM
There looks like there's a possibility of a pregnancy style test on the mass market by July and could cost about £25, would take 30 minutes to get a result too.

Perhaps there is hope for a championship this year.

That'd be massive. It'd be essentially killed off in 4 weeks. [£25 is a pittance if everyone was tested compared to the cost of continued lockdown - it'd be ~£1.75B for everyone in the UK - a bargain at twice the price]

Even better, anyone trying to get international flights has to get a test at both departing (no embarking prior to result) and arriving airports (no leaving airport prior to result).

Assuming they can get billions on the market to support such an approach.

If its like a pregnancy test, i.e. essentially litmus paper suitably coated - then they should be able to scale that up to numbers unseen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 01:45:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 21, 2020, 01:35:16 PM
Legal minefield though wouldn't you say? Your infringing on various freedoms and privacy, albeit for the greater good.

I like the idea, but realistically, could we implement this at airports? Maybe the actual carrier will have to provide this as part of the overall fare agreement?

Is it any more of a minefield than searching your bags and frisking [or the full body scanners]?

Yeah, it'd no doubt add significant complication to security - and the obvious question - what happens if someone turns up a positive result? How do you begin to trace down anyone at risk in the airport?


Maybe there would be a way of time-stamping a test when it occurred - which would mean folks could do it at home the day of travel and present their clean status at entry to the airport. More feasible at the airport side, but dunno if there is a way of marking it timewise - and then your also trusting that its that person that pee'ed on it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 21, 2020, 01:50:34 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 01:45:11 PM
Maybe there would be a way of time-stamping a test when it occurred - which would mean folks could do it at home the day of travel and present their clean status at entry to the airport. More feasible at the airport side, but dunno if there is a way of marking it timewise - and then your also trusting that its that person that pee'ed on it.

Maybe require passengers to either turn up with, or have uploaded to a website in the meantime, a GP certificate confirming a negative test taken in the previous 24/48 hours? Wouldn't be fully foolproof but would eliminate a lot of the risk.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 21, 2020, 02:12:11 PM
Quote from: five points on May 21, 2020, 01:50:34 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 01:45:11 PM
Maybe there would be a way of time-stamping a test when it occurred - which would mean folks could do it at home the day of travel and present their clean status at entry to the airport. More feasible at the airport side, but dunno if there is a way of marking it timewise - and then your also trusting that its that person that pee'ed on it.

Maybe require passengers to either turn up with, or have uploaded to a website in the meantime, a GP certificate confirming a negative test taken in the previous 24/48 hours? Wouldn't be fully foolproof but would eliminate a lot of the risk.

We are talking full on pre arrival clearance to the States from Shannon now. It's not a bad idea, but I think it's maybe one for down the path....I suspect the world will try and drive on as normal through this, especially with the news turning from just last month disaster to now....seemingly more positive by the day (or maybe just less depressing).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 21, 2020, 03:17:36 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 21, 2020, 02:12:11 PM
Quote from: five points on May 21, 2020, 01:50:34 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 01:45:11 PM
Maybe there would be a way of time-stamping a test when it occurred - which would mean folks could do it at home the day of travel and present their clean status at entry to the airport. More feasible at the airport side, but dunno if there is a way of marking it timewise - and then your also trusting that its that person that pee'ed on it.

Maybe require passengers to either turn up with, or have uploaded to a website in the meantime, a GP certificate confirming a negative test taken in the previous 24/48 hours? Wouldn't be fully foolproof but would eliminate a lot of the risk.

We are talking full on pre arrival clearance to the States from Shannon now. It's not a bad idea, but I think it's maybe one for down the path....I suspect the world will try and drive on as normal through this, especially with the news turning from just last month disaster to now....seemingly more positive by the day (or maybe just less depressing).

Portugal's tourism Secretary of State was saying they are opening beaches and are prepared to let in holiday makers mid June, should airlines and outside governments allow this, puts me then in a dilemma as I've booked paid for a villa in Portugal at end of July!

If we don't go because we feel this isn't safe can we get our money back?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TabClear on May 21, 2020, 03:50:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 21, 2020, 03:17:36 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 21, 2020, 02:12:11 PM
Quote from: five points on May 21, 2020, 01:50:34 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 01:45:11 PM
Maybe there would be a way of time-stamping a test when it occurred - which would mean folks could do it at home the day of travel and present their clean status at entry to the airport. More feasible at the airport side, but dunno if there is a way of marking it timewise - and then your also trusting that its that person that pee'ed on it.

Maybe require passengers to either turn up with, or have uploaded to a website in the meantime, a GP certificate confirming a negative test taken in the previous 24/48 hours? Wouldn't be fully foolproof but would eliminate a lot of the risk.

We are talking full on pre arrival clearance to the States from Shannon now. It's not a bad idea, but I think it's maybe one for down the path....I suspect the world will try and drive on as normal through this, especially with the news turning from just last month disaster to now....seemingly more positive by the day (or maybe just less depressing).

Portugal's tourism Secretary of State was saying they are opening beaches and are prepared to let in holiday makers mid June, should airlines and outside governments allow this, puts me then in a dilemma as I've booked paid for a villa in Portugal at end of July!

If we don't go because we feel this isn't safe can we get our money back?

I think this is the worst case scenario (financially) for people with holidays booked. Official guidance is that the holiday can go ahead (assuming FCO do not advise against) so your insurance will not pay out and the holiday provider has not cancelled so no refund available from them. So effectively they deem it that you have changed your mind and the financial loss sits with you. Apart from the safety issue and the potential for quarantine etc, the reality is that you will not be getting the same holiday you were anticipating when you arrive because of social distancing, amenities closed etc etc.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 21, 2020, 03:51:43 PM
Just get a hazmat suit for the plane and lock yourself in the villa when you get there  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on May 21, 2020, 03:52:49 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 21, 2020, 12:21:29 PM
Can anyone find that link to the 0.25 R rate??
Simon Harris said in the Dail that it had stabilised at 0.5
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 21, 2020, 04:02:02 PM
Thanks Rois. So not quite 0.25 yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 21, 2020, 04:10:15 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 21, 2020, 03:51:43 PM
Just get a hazmat suit for the plane and lock yourself in the villa when you get there  ;D

If there is a supermarket open that'll do me, pool and outside barbecue bar area so I'll be fine!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 21, 2020, 05:03:53 PM
Riddle me this!

Our local factory has 1,200 employees who have gone to work for the last 9 weeks. They go to work they go home to their families.


Then we have 100 Leaving Certs in a school in the same town who can't go in to do their Leaving Cert that is the guts of a week and a half!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 21, 2020, 05:05:26 PM
No riddle just fact.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 21, 2020, 05:08:46 PM
Read 0.25 lads and lowest in Europe done by a scientist but seen where they quoted 0.5 so that's me told. But I would guess they would go on the high side of the number just to keep everyone alert and may be closer to the 0.25 rather than the 0.5 but great number all the same and has been at 0.5 for 4 weeks. Things sure are looking on the strong side. The R number has dropped in the UK again going by that Hancock man. So lockdown in the uk lifted 10 days and the R nunber going down. Work that one out?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 21, 2020, 05:10:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 21, 2020, 05:05:26 PM
No riddle just fact.

But why is there one set of rules for 1,200 and another for 100?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 21, 2020, 05:14:51 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 21, 2020, 05:08:46 PM
Read 0.25 lads and lowest in Europe done by a scientist but seen where they quoted 0.5 so that's me told. But I would guess they would go on the high side of the number just to keep everyone alert and may be closer to the 0.25 rather than the 0.5 but great number all the same and has been at 0.5 for 4 weeks. Things sure are looking on the strong side. The R number has dropped in the UK again going by that Hancock man. So lockdown in the uk lifted 10 days and the R nunber going down. Work that one out?

The r-rate is going to lag behind whatever is happening day to day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 21, 2020, 05:15:26 PM
60,000 doing the Leaving Cert in the great big world outside your town.
What does the factory produce and what's the hygiene regime etc.?
It was proposed to hold the LC deferred to late July but seems everyone but the Minister objected and wanted it called off.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 21, 2020, 05:53:42 PM
Nail on heard HS, and listening to thon clampit Nolan last night being a mixing Cnut! He can't get any proper guests on the show cause he actually doesn't care for anything but his ratings!

Edit: Nolan did a feature on getting schools opened
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on May 21, 2020, 06:05:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 21, 2020, 05:53:42 PM
Nail on heard HS, and listening to thon clampit Nolan last night being a mixing Cnut! He can't get any proper guests on the show cause he actually doesn't care for anything but his ratings!

Edit: Nolan did a feature on getting schools opened
He has more influence than you think. He made a big deal about the lack of computers in working class houses and hey presto Weir announces today that funding will be available for exactly that....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 06:26:09 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 21, 2020, 05:08:46 PMThe R number has dropped in the UK again going by that Hancock man.

If that Hancock man told me it was raining, I'd be sure to stick my hand out the window to check.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on May 21, 2020, 06:27:43 PM
Yanks expect round 2 in November.

It will be like this until there is a vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 21, 2020, 06:30:46 PM
Another "Democrat plot"???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 21, 2020, 07:23:08 PM
Quote from: GJL on May 21, 2020, 06:05:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 21, 2020, 05:53:42 PM
Nail on heard HS, and listening to thon clampit Nolan last night being a mixing Cnut! He can't get any proper guests on the show cause he actually doesn't care for anything but his ratings!

Edit: Nolan did a feature on getting schools opened
He has more influence than you think. He made a big deal about the lack of computers in working class houses and hey presto Weir announces today that funding will be available for exactly that....

Is he paying for the broadband as well?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 21, 2020, 07:24:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 21, 2020, 06:27:43 PM
Yanks expect round 2 in November.

It will be like this until there is a vaccine.

They ain't even out of wave 1! That'll take another 2 or more months the way they are carrying on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 21, 2020, 07:24:55 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 21, 2020, 11:34:11 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 21, 2020, 11:16:02 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 21, 2020, 09:39:04 AM
The South of Ireland has the lowest R rate in Europe at 0.25 approx.
Great news

Who says this? It seems improbable. Link please.

In the UK I read the R rate is not a here and now figure but a week or two behind what is happening today - is this the case in the South as well?

If the .25 figure is accurate and a couple of weeks behind that would change the picture considerably............

The rate was announced today as between 0.45 and 0.63.
0.25 would be almost  impossible to achieve in a disease with so many without symptoms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on May 21, 2020, 07:59:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 21, 2020, 07:23:08 PM
Quote from: GJL on May 21, 2020, 06:05:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 21, 2020, 05:53:42 PM
Nail on heard HS, and listening to thon clampit Nolan last night being a mixing Cnut! He can't get any proper guests on the show cause he actually doesn't care for anything but his ratings!

Edit: Nolan did a feature on getting schools opened
He has more influence than you think. He made a big deal about the lack of computers in working class houses and hey presto Weir announces today that funding will be available for exactly that....

Is he paying for the broadband as well?

Unfortunately most of the working class can't avail as its for free school meals families I think ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 21, 2020, 08:05:20 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on May 21, 2020, 07:59:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 21, 2020, 07:23:08 PM
Quote from: GJL on May 21, 2020, 06:05:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 21, 2020, 05:53:42 PM
Nail on heard HS, and listening to thon clampit Nolan last night being a mixing Cnut! He can't get any proper guests on the show cause he actually doesn't care for anything but his ratings!

Edit: Nolan did a feature on getting schools opened
He has more influence than you think. He made a big deal about the lack of computers in working class houses and hey presto Weir announces today that funding will be available for exactly that....

Is he paying for the broadband as well?

Unfortunately most of the working class can't avail as its for free school meals families I think ?

But able to pay let's say for four tablets and no internet but free meals?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on May 21, 2020, 08:17:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 21, 2020, 08:05:20 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on May 21, 2020, 07:59:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 21, 2020, 07:23:08 PM
Quote from: GJL on May 21, 2020, 06:05:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 21, 2020, 05:53:42 PM
Nail on heard HS, and listening to thon clampit Nolan last night being a mixing Cnut! He can't get any proper guests on the show cause he actually doesn't care for anything but his ratings!

Edit: Nolan did a feature on getting schools opened
He has more influence than you think. He made a big deal about the lack of computers in working class houses and hey presto Weir announces today that funding will be available for exactly that....

Is he paying for the broadband as well?

Unfortunately most of the working class can't avail as its for free school meals families I think ?

But able to pay let's say for four tablets and no internet but free meals?

Free school meals isn't a sexy headline. Free iPads is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 08:36:35 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on May 21, 2020, 07:59:06 PM
Unfortunately most of the working class can't avail as its for free school meals families I think ?

I have to admit, I'm not a big fan of that label; "Working class".

It does two things - (1) implies anyone outside of it isn't working and (2) it ironically extends to include a sub-group of people who avoid work as best they can and are the antithesis of the label "working class".

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on May 21, 2020, 08:41:31 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 08:36:35 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on May 21, 2020, 07:59:06 PM
Unfortunately most of the working class can't avail as its for free school meals families I think ?

I have to admit, I'm not a big fan of that label; "Working class".

It does two things - (1) implies anyone outside of it isn't working and (2) it ironically extends to include a sub-group of people who avoid work as best they can and are the antithesis of the label "working class".

That's what I was getting at
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on May 21, 2020, 08:49:37 PM
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1139720/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on May 21, 2020, 08:51:12 PM
Just to make clear - Minister Weir has offered the laptops that are already in schools in phase one of his plan. He had said they will purchase 3 000 in phase 2 and 4, 000 ( if needed) in phase 3.
Primary school laptops are complete rubbish and are  currently about 3 years out of date.
He accounts for 18 000 school based devices and 3000 -6 000 of new investment .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 09:27:58 PM
Quote from: delgany on May 21, 2020, 08:51:12 PM
Primary school laptops are complete rubbish and are  currently about 3 years out of date.

F88k all wrong with a 3 year old laptop. [apart from maybe battery - but sure these things aren't really being used off grid anyway]

Avoid loading it with Microbloat and Apple iO$ and it'd be fine.


Utterly amazes me that governments across the world continue to pay obscene amounts for software which requires constant hardware upgrades to function satisfactorily. If they put the equivalent investment into an open source alternative over 2 years, they'd likely be able to cut maintenance budget to a trickle and be fine for many years.

Recently put Ubuntu 20.04 on an 11 year old laptop - not a bother to it - happily zooms away. A week before the same laptop failed dismally at the same task when running Win10.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 21, 2020, 09:49:32 PM
The open source route never going to happen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 09:58:23 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 21, 2020, 09:49:32 PM
The open source route never going to happen.

I know.

The reasons behind that are shit though. Basically brown envelopes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 21, 2020, 10:05:29 PM
What are the reasons? I would have thought support contracts a big thing. Windows support shops all over the place. Not too many *nix ones about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on May 21, 2020, 10:53:36 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2020, 09:27:58 PM
Quote from: delgany on May 21, 2020, 08:51:12 PM
Primary school laptops are complete rubbish and are  currently about 3 years out of date.

F88k all wrong with a 3 year old laptop. [apart from maybe battery - but sure these things aren't really being used off grid anyway]

Avoid loading it with Microbloat and Apple iO$ and it'd be fine.


Utterly amazes me that governments across the world continue to pay obscene amounts for software which requires constant hardware upgrades to function satisfactorily. If they put the equivalent investment into an open source alternative over 2 years, they'd likely be able to cut maintenance budget to a trickle and be fine for many years.

Recently put Ubuntu 20.04 on an 11 year old laptop - not a bother to it - happily zooms away. A week before the same laptop failed dismally at the same task when running Win10.

I didn't  say they were three years old ! Well past three years , at least 6- 7 years old .Recently refreshed to Windows 10 and Microsoft 2016 software.  They'll hold up well .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on May 21, 2020, 11:00:36 PM
What about scrapping the leaving cert this year? They should have gone ahead with the exams at the normal time. Giving out results based on mock exams etc is not a fair way of doing things at all. I know my leaving cert results were based on work done after the mocks so I am glad this years system did not apply to me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 22, 2020, 01:01:39 AM
Some of these bots will have columns in the Daily Telegraph, Spiked Online, the Spectator and the Wall Street Journal in the near future. And maybe a guest slot on the Brendan O'Connor show on radio.

https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1263553262365675520

@HelenBranswell

Nearly half of @Twitter accounts tweeting about #Covid19 may be bots, researchers from Carnegie Mellon U. report; many aim to sow dissent & worsen the impact of the pandemic. The depravity of that boggles my mind. Makes you actually hope there's a hell.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Olly on May 22, 2020, 09:42:18 AM
I've an awful itch at the bottom of my back and above my legs. Does anyone know if this is a sympton ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 22, 2020, 10:04:26 AM
Olly symptoms change every week so god knows what sage will come out with
The latest and unbelievable not getting much headlines
A SAGE scientist who joined the team late said on question time that the scientist and UK government reacted 2 weeks to slow causing many thousand deaths and he doesn't know why they didn't act quicker. This is from a man who now sits on the SAGE committee but didn't at the start.
SAGE now tellin the shit show government in England June 1 to early to open and July 14 reasonable date.
Complete shitshow across the water
48% of deaths in Northern Ireland in hospitals
52% in care homes and hospices

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 22, 2020, 10:08:20 AM
Quote from: Olly on May 22, 2020, 09:42:18 AM
I've an awful itch at the bottom of my back and above my legs. Does anyone know if this is a sympton ?

Give it a scratch then stick said finger in your mouth.

If you can't smell or taste anything then your in bother as that's now a symptom.

Let us know how you get on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 22, 2020, 10:32:12 AM
Do people think this is possible by September?
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-astrazeneca-could-begin-supply-of-potential-covid-19-vaccine-in-september-11991968

Coronavirus: AstraZeneca could begin supply of potential COVID-19 vaccine in September
The drugs giant says it is ramping up capacity to "ensure the delivery of a globally accessible vaccines



AstraZeneca has said it has the capacity to manufacture one billion doses of the University of Oxford's potential COVID-19 vaccine and plans to begin supplying it in September.

The drugs giant also said it has already taken orders for at least 400 million doses of the coronavirus jab it is developing with the university.

It intends to negotiate further deals on capacity to "ensure the delivery of a globally accessible vaccine".


High hopes for the Oxford vaccine
Results from an early stage clinical trial in southern England are expected shortly, it said.
If those are successful, other trials will follow in a number of countries.

It was announced earlier this week that plans are in place to roll out a COVID-19 vaccine to 30 million people in the UK by September if trials are successful.

Pascal Soriot, chief executive of AstraZeneca, said: "We need to defeat the virus together or it will continue to inflict huge personal suffering and leave long-lasting economic and social scars in every country around the worl


"We are so proud to be collaborating with Oxford University to turn their ground-breaking work into a medicine that can be produced on a global scale.

"We would like to thank the US and UK governments for their substantial support to accelerate the development and production of the vaccine.

"We will do everything in our power to make this vaccine quickly and widely available."

The multinational pharmaceutical company added that it had received more than $1bn (£820m) from the US Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority for the development, production and delivery of a vaccine, starting in the autumn.

"The development programme includes a Phase III clinical trial with 30,000 participants and a paediatric trial," it said.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Denn Forever on May 22, 2020, 10:42:51 AM
FDA approval.  What's that?  I suppose there is no FDA?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 22, 2020, 10:49:34 AM
Quote from: Square Ball on May 22, 2020, 10:32:12 AM
Do people think this is possible by September?
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-astrazeneca-could-begin-supply-of-potential-covid-19-vaccine-in-september-11991968

Coronavirus: AstraZeneca could begin supply of potential COVID-19 vaccine in September
The drugs giant says it is ramping up capacity to "ensure the delivery of a globally accessible vaccines

The academics may sign off on in September, although research generally takes longer than expected, but mass production will take time. Perhaps somebody somehwere will get vaccinated in 2020, medical staff probably first.

However, there are several vaccine projects in different countries, one may get there by Christmas. These work differently, so you could have a vaccine that would work better with old people or one that was cheaper to produce.

Also some treatments are moving through the trials, one in China was developed based on SARS and it seems able to treat all related corona viruses.

This is why the lockdowns were worth it, perhaps they only kick the can down the road but in 6 months we will have tests to identify the virus quickly, treatments to reduce its effects for most people and we'll be well on the road to a  vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 22, 2020, 11:00:34 AM
i wouldn't be too confident on taking a vaccine
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 22, 2020, 11:07:04 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 22, 2020, 11:00:34 AM
i wouldn't be too confident on taking a vaccine

My missus said that as well, she doesn't feel confident taking it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 22, 2020, 11:12:41 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 22, 2020, 11:00:34 AM
i wouldn't be too confident on taking a vaccine

If your not in a high priority group - I wouldn't worry - I don't think anyone else will be seeing the vaccines for quite some time.


But yeah, point taken. Rushing it this quick involves compromises.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 22, 2020, 11:14:04 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 22, 2020, 11:00:34 AM
i wouldn't be too confident on taking a vaccine

Indeed, why would whole teams of scientists doing trials on thousands of people in multiple countries give you any confidence?
Karen from Facebook says that it might be dodgy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on May 22, 2020, 11:23:02 AM
Dropping in a "Karen from Facebook said so / didn't say so" has unseated adding "FACT" to the end of statements, for people who think than they're smarter than they are.

FACT.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 22, 2020, 11:37:36 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 22, 2020, 10:08:20 AM
Quote from: Olly on May 22, 2020, 09:42:18 AM
I've an awful itch at the bottom of my back and above my legs. Does anyone know if this is a sympton ?

Give it a scratch then stick said finger in your mouth.

If you can't smell or taste anything then your in bother as that's now a symptom.

Let us know how you get on.

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 22, 2020, 11:50:56 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 22, 2020, 11:14:04 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 22, 2020, 11:00:34 AM
i wouldn't be too confident on taking a vaccine

Indeed, why would whole teams of scientists doing trials on thousands of people in multiple countries give you any confidence?
Karen from Facebook says that it might be dodgy.

He's made a fair point though.

Any vaccine normally takes years to wind through the system - that's an awful lot more time to analyse results, conduct more phase trials and perhaps more critically a longer time to allow potential side effects to develop. For instance, if in theory one of these vaccines did cause a side effect that became clear 12 months later, not at all likely but possible, its impossible to catch it before mid 2021.


Of course, the risk of a vaccine has to be weighed against the risk of contracting then developing serious COVID complications. Obviously, the risk of a vaccine will be significantly lower than the risk of the virus - otherwise it'll never make it through trials*.


*case mortality rate of 1% and estimate that eventually 50% of population gets it - that means everyone has a 0.5% chance of dying of this (averaged across all age groups so not really true). So if they test the vaccine on 1000 people and only one develops a serious complication, then your balancing 0.5% (virus) vs 0.1% (vaccine).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 22, 2020, 12:00:04 PM
Everyone seems to miss the point that the risk to people under 70 is minimal. If a Vaccine is made available those high risk groups will get it first and for them it makes no sense not to get it. The risk of catching Covid-19 would more than likely be fatal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 22, 2020, 12:07:22 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 22, 2020, 11:50:56 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 22, 2020, 11:14:04 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 22, 2020, 11:00:34 AM
i wouldn't be too confident on taking a vaccine

Indeed, why would whole teams of scientists doing trials on thousands of people in multiple countries give you any confidence?
Karen from Facebook says that it might be dodgy.

He's made a fair point though.

Any vaccine normally takes years to wind through the system - that's an awful lot more time to analyse results, conduct more phase trials and perhaps more critically a longer time to allow potential side effects to develop. For instance, if in theory one of these vaccines did cause a side effect that became clear 12 months later, not at all likely but possible, its impossible to catch it before mid 2021.


It is a fair point for the population, but not necessarily for him. There will be groups with complications where the vaccine will not have been trialled on a sufficient number of people to make the statement that it is safe, while Milltown is unique on Gaaboard, he may or may not have a complicating factor n this context.
However, if all people without complications get the vaccine, including young people not very much at risk of Covid19, then the virus cannot circulate. If people refuse the vaccine then they might not die from the Covid19, but someone they infect might.
Like the lockdown, some element of community spirit rather than mé féinism is needed, together with some careful analysis of who the vaccine has been tested on and who it hasn't. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 22, 2020, 12:13:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 22, 2020, 12:00:04 PM
Everyone seems to miss the point that the risk to people under 70 is minimal. If a Vaccine is made available those high risk groups will get it first and for them it makes no sense not to get it. The risk of catching Covid-19 would more than likely be fatal.

The risk may be less, but if you get it there may be lasting medical issues, I'm 48, in my head I think I'm still 25, but plenty of people my age or similar have had major problems or died from this!

For the vaccine if there is one, as other virus's have struggled to get vaccines, i'd be shocked if there was one available after 8 months, regardless of the medical experts out there, they haven't covered themselves in any glory lately  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 22, 2020, 12:33:45 PM
Someone noted on facebook this morning that they're talking about a mass vaccine for a disease that they have trouble devising a proper mass test for.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 22, 2020, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 12:33:45 PM
Someone noted on facebook this morning that they're talking about a mass vaccine for a disease that they have trouble devising a proper mass test for.

The test will be available 6 months before the vaccine and  will help control it in the meantime.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 22, 2020, 12:58:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 22, 2020, 12:13:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 22, 2020, 12:00:04 PM
Everyone seems to miss the point that the risk to people under 70 is minimal. If a Vaccine is made available those high risk groups will get it first and for them it makes no sense not to get it. The risk of catching Covid-19 would more than likely be fatal.

The risk may be less, but if you get it there may be lasting medical issues, I'm 48, in my head I think I'm still 25, but plenty of people my age or similar have had major problems or died from this!

For the vaccine if there is one, as other virus's have struggled to get vaccines, i'd be shocked if there was one available after 8 months, regardless of the medical experts out there, they haven't covered themselves in any glory lately  ;)

Private companies know what they are doing. It's business. My issue is and always has been with "Medical Advisers and Scientific experts" in government and other bluffer type committee adviser roles. SAGE for example. Professor John Edmunds - guy who promoted Herd Immunity, helped to get the basic modelling wrong. Much of the initial science has been wrong and people have been right to challenge it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 22, 2020, 01:18:21 PM
Don't be landing the stupidity of the DisUK on the rest of the World (excl US).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 22, 2020, 01:42:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 22, 2020, 12:42:09 PM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 12:33:45 PM
Someone noted on facebook this morning that they're talking about a mass vaccine for a disease that they have trouble devising a proper mass test for.

The test will be available 6 months before the vaccine and  will help control it in the meantime.

Boris and his mates will have the test available in just over a week so that the English schools can open.

Hope its better than the current 100K a day tests where they double count taking your nasal swab and the throat swab even though both are needed for confirmation.

Gangsters and Charlatans.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 22, 2020, 02:08:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 22, 2020, 12:13:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 22, 2020, 12:00:04 PM
Everyone seems to miss the point that the risk to people under 70 is minimal. If a Vaccine is made available those high risk groups will get it first and for them it makes no sense not to get it. The risk of catching Covid-19 would more than likely be fatal.

The risk may be less, but if you get it there may be lasting medical issues, I'm 48, in my head I think I'm still 25, but plenty of people my age or similar have had major problems or died from this!

For the vaccine if there is one, as other virus's have struggled to get vaccines, i'd be shocked if there was one available after 8 months, regardless of the medical experts out there, they haven't covered themselves in any glory lately  ;)

Same here and as already said Ireland won't be front of the queue when vaccines are eventually handed out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 22, 2020, 02:18:03 PM
I would expect the north could see some problems with England trying to get all of them first too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 22, 2020, 02:20:56 PM
Doesn't look like that will be a problem for a long long time to come.

QuoteDoubts raised over Oxford coronavirus vaccine after ALL of the monkeys that took part in the trial are found to have contracted the disease
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8331709/Oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-does-not-stop-infection-experts-warn.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 22, 2020, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 02:20:56 PM
Doesn't look like that will be a problem for a long long time to come.

QuoteDoubts raised over Oxford coronavirus vaccine after ALL of the monkeys that took part in the trial are found to have contracted the disease
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8331709/Oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-does-not-stop-infection-experts-warn.html

Had me there until I read the source!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 22, 2020, 02:47:24 PM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 02:20:56 PM
Doesn't look like that will be a problem for a long long time to come.

QuoteDoubts raised over Oxford coronavirus vaccine after ALL of the monkeys that took part in the trial are found to have contracted the disease
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8331709/Oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-does-not-stop-infection-experts-warn.html

From the looks of that, it might help reduce the severity of the disease, but will have no effect on spread.

Better than nothing, and a potential stopgap, but hopefully they come up with something better. Still early days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 22, 2020, 02:53:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 02:47:24 PM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 02:20:56 PM
Doesn't look like that will be a problem for a long long time to come.

QuoteDoubts raised over Oxford coronavirus vaccine after ALL of the monkeys that took part in the trial are found to have contracted the disease
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8331709/Oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-does-not-stop-infection-experts-warn.html

From the looks of that, it might help reduce the severity of the disease, but will have no effect on spread.

Better than nothing, and a potential stopgap, but hopefully they come up with something better. Still early days.

Whatever gets us back to work and stops the teachers from losing their jobs  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 22, 2020, 02:55:36 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 22, 2020, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 02:20:56 PM
Doesn't look like that will be a problem for a long long time to come.

QuoteDoubts raised over Oxford coronavirus vaccine after ALL of the monkeys that took part in the trial are found to have contracted the disease
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8331709/Oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-does-not-stop-infection-experts-warn.html

Had me there until I read the source!

::) The Daily Mail didn't carry out the trials.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 22, 2020, 03:02:35 PM
The British government will face a big investigation after this and I honestly can see serious pressure coming into Johnstone Raab Hancock and co
They have seriously let the country down.
Whilst everyone was telling them to lockdown they seem to be the only ones who didn't want too. 2 weeks to late and now seems has cost thousands of life's
How far could this investigation go? Jail?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 22, 2020, 03:04:45 PM
They would deserve it. I doubt they're following too much medical advice.

There's a lot more behind the scenes like PPE shortages and the lies being told there as well as the likes of that dyson ventilator crap. They are up to their neck in it and not one f**k could they give.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 03:08:03 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 22, 2020, 03:02:35 PM
The British government will face a big investigation after this and I honestly can see serious pressure coming into Johnstone Raab Hancock and co
They have seriously let the country down.
Whilst everyone was telling them to lockdown they seem to be the only ones who didn't want too. 2 weeks to late and now seems has cost thousands of life's
How far could this investigation go? Jail?

It will be a race to see who can throw each other under the bus first.

The science/scientists will be the first by johnson & hancock - I would hope there are members of Sage/scientists recording everything that was recommended to the Gov - because there is no doubt a lot of it was ignored. Especially in the early stages
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 22, 2020, 03:12:02 PM
It seems obvious to me that the serial scaremonger Prof Neil Ferguson, with his faulty modelling, scared them into a lockdown from which they're now struggling to escape.  Given his pathetic record with previous forecasts, Ferguson should never been let near Imperial College let alone Downing Street.

It also seems obvious to me that the lockdown was a huge mistake, not least because they spent a lot of resources and time organising it when the focus should have been on PPE and basic organisation in care homes.

Now they've the worst of both words.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 22, 2020, 03:21:44 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 22, 2020, 03:02:35 PM
The British government will face a big investigation after this and I honestly can see serious pressure coming into Johnstone Raab Hancock and co
They have seriously let the country down.
Whilst everyone was telling them to lockdown they seem to be the only ones who didn't want too. 2 weeks to late and now seems has cost thousands of life's
How far could this investigation go? Jail?

Jail would require criminal intent or negligence. I doubt if you can be prosecuted for poor judgement in an unfolding, unprecedented global crisis, especially if you can point to professional advice, even if it runs contrary to consensus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 22, 2020, 03:33:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 03:21:44 PM
Jail would require criminal intent or negligence. I doubt if you can be prosecuted for poor judgement in an unfolding, unprecedented global crisis, especially if you can point to professional advice, even if it runs contrary to consensus.

+1
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 22, 2020, 03:48:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 03:21:44 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 22, 2020, 03:02:35 PM
The British government will face a big investigation after this and I honestly can see serious pressure coming into Johnstone Raab Hancock and co
They have seriously let the country down.
Whilst everyone was telling them to lockdown they seem to be the only ones who didn't want too. 2 weeks to late and now seems has cost thousands of life's
How far could this investigation go? Jail?

Jail would require criminal intent or negligence. I doubt if you can be prosecuted for poor judgement in an unfolding, unprecedented global crisis, especially if you can point to professional advice, even if it runs contrary to consensus.

I am not convinced they are following what they are being told by professionals. The PPE stuff as well would be something that they would be borderline negligent on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 22, 2020, 03:49:59 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 22, 2020, 03:48:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 03:21:44 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 22, 2020, 03:02:35 PM
The British government will face a big investigation after this and I honestly can see serious pressure coming into Johnstone Raab Hancock and co
They have seriously let the country down.
Whilst everyone was telling them to lockdown they seem to be the only ones who didn't want too. 2 weeks to late and now seems has cost thousands of life's
How far could this investigation go? Jail?

Jail would require criminal intent or negligence. I doubt if you can be prosecuted for poor judgement in an unfolding, unprecedented global crisis, especially if you can point to professional advice, even if it runs contrary to consensus.

I am not convinced they are following what they are being told by professionals. The PPE stuff as well would be something that they would be borderline negligent on.

The first person to go to jail should be Ferguson.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 03:52:42 PM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 03:12:02 PM
It seems obvious to me that the serial scaremonger Prof Neil Ferguson, with his faulty modelling, scared them into a lockdown from which they're now struggling to escape.  Given his pathetic record with previous forecasts, Ferguson should never been let near Imperial College let alone Downing Street.

It also seems obvious to me that the lockdown was a huge mistake, not least because they spent a lot of resources and time organising it when the focus should have been on PPE and basic organisation in care homes.

Now they've the worst of both words.

But surely the lockdown saved 1000's of lives?
Thats is why we are over the first peak.

No lockdown means it would keep spreading
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 22, 2020, 04:23:17 PM
Some hopeful news from China

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/important-milestone-hopes-for-coronavirus-vaccine-soar-after-success-of-first-clinical-trial-39226810.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 22, 2020, 04:42:33 PM
The r number hasn't went up in England since lockdown was released. Just confirmed on sky news.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 22, 2020, 04:56:56 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 22, 2020, 04:42:33 PM
The r number hasn't went up in England since lockdown was released. Just confirmed on sky news.

That's essentially fake news. The "R" number is based in data from 2 weeks ago. So they don't know what the R number is today and won't for another 2 weeks.
In regards to NI. I don't actually disagree with the lockdown but it has been utterly pointless. More people were exempt from it that subject to it. Most people got fucked off after 2 weeks and gave up with no consequences. Our local shop had a queuing systems for all of one weekend then this just went f**k it. The questions at press conferences in the UK circled around PPE over and over and over again. Did any BBC journalist ask a question about anything else? There wasn't a proper test, trace and track system put in place yet not one journalist pushed this. There has been little or no honesty from government or scientific advisers. For example and the numbers prove it, this is a disease were if you are over 70 the risk is 1000's times greater. The risk to young people is minuscule. The modelling is exactly that, a computer model based on information for the most part which is guessed. Just a best guess. Why can't they come out and be honest? And now were hit with this shite that we're all amateur virologist and statisticians. Well who would notice us amateurs from the real thing? as the UK government presides over the 3rd worst death total in the world and they're on a f**king island.
Unprepared, untruthful, and utter omnishambles.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 04:57:54 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 22, 2020, 04:42:33 PM
The r number hasn't went up in England since lockdown was released. Just confirmed on sky news.

The lockdown hasnt really been released though?

And with a 2 to 3 week lag in R number data it means this data means very little - no?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 04:59:13 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 22, 2020, 04:56:56 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 22, 2020, 04:42:33 PM
The r number hasn't went up in England since lockdown was released. Just confirmed on sky news.

That's essentially fake news. The "R" number is based in data from 2 weeks ago. So they don't know what the R number is today and won't for another 2 weeks.
In regards to NI. I don't actually disagree with the lockdown but it has been utterly pointless. More people were exempt from it that subject to it. Most people got fucked off after 2 weeks and gave up with no consequences. Our local shop had a queuing systems for all of one weekend then this just went f**k it. The questions at press conferences in the UK circled around PPE over and over and over again. Did any BBC journalist ask a question about anything else? There wasn't a proper test, trace and track system put in place yet not one journalist pushed this. There has been little or no honesty from government or scientific advisers. For example and the numbers prove it, this is a disease were if you are over 70 the risk is 1000's times greater. The risk to young people is minuscule. The modelling is exactly that, a computer model based on information for the most part which is guessed. Just a best guess. Why can't they come out and be honest? And now were hit with this shite that we're all amateur virologist and statisticians. Well who would notice us amateurs from the real thing? as the UK government presides over the 3rd worst death total in the world and they're on a f**king island.
Unprepared, untruthful, and utter omnishambles.

+1
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 22, 2020, 05:29:00 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 03:52:42 PM
But surely the lockdown saved 1000's of lives?
Thats is why we are over the first peak.

No lockdown means it would keep spreading

Sweden seems to suggest the opposite. Economic and social activity in the UK and Ireland was shrivelling to nothing anyway before the formal lockdowns came into force. Swedish shops, restaurants etc were allowed stay open but punters stayed away in their droves. Now the British and Irish governments are both up their ears in fresh debt and have a battle on their hands working out how to reverse lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on May 22, 2020, 05:33:32 PM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 05:29:00 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 03:52:42 PM
But surely the lockdown saved 1000's of lives?
Thats is why we are over the first peak.

No lockdown means it would keep spreading

Sweden seems to suggest the opposite. Economic and social activity in the UK and Ireland was shrivelling to nothing anyway before the formal lockdowns came into force. Swedish shops, restaurants etc were allowed stay open but punters stayed away in their droves. Now the British and Irish governments are both up their ears in fresh debt and have a battle on their hands working out how to reverse lockdown.

Did the Swedish government step in with any assistance for the pub/restaurant industry, or did they just leave them hanging out to dry with 100% of overheads and 20% income?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on May 22, 2020, 05:34:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 22, 2020, 04:56:56 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 22, 2020, 04:42:33 PM
The r number hasn't went up in England since lockdown was released. Just confirmed on sky news.

That's essentially fake news. The "R" number is based in data from 2 weeks ago. So they don't know what the R number is today and won't for another 2 weeks.
In regards to NI. I don't actually disagree with the lockdown but it has been utterly pointless. More people were exempt from it that subject to it. Most people got fucked off after 2 weeks and gave up with no consequences. Our local shop had a queuing systems for all of one weekend then this just went f**k it. The questions at press conferences in the UK circled around PPE over and over and over again. Did any BBC journalist ask a question about anything else? There wasn't a proper test, trace and track system put in place yet not one journalist pushed this. There has been little or no honesty from government or scientific advisers. For example and the numbers prove it, this is a disease were if you are over 70 the risk is 1000's times greater. The risk to young people is minuscule. The modelling is exactly that, a computer model based on information for the most part which is guessed. Just a best guess. Why can't they come out and be honest? And now were hit with this shite that we're all amateur virologist and statisticians. Well who would notice us amateurs from the real thing? as the UK government presides over the 3rd worst death total in the world and they're on a f**king island.
Unprepared, untruthful, and utter omnishambles.

I love the way you keep repeating this as if you've hit on some sort of hot take.

We all f**king know this you balloon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on May 22, 2020, 05:45:00 PM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 05:29:00 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 03:52:42 PM
But surely the lockdown saved 1000's of lives?
Thats is why we are over the first peak.

No lockdown means it would keep spreading

Sweden seems to suggest the opposite. Economic and social activity in the UK and Ireland was shrivelling to nothing anyway before the formal lockdowns came into force. Swedish shops, restaurants etc were allowed stay open but punters stayed away in their droves. Now the British and Irish governments are both up their ears in fresh debt and have a battle on their hands working out how to reverse lockdown.

Does Sweden not have the highest death rate per capita in the world. Their government is being slated from everyone and have even apologised for how they've handled things.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 22, 2020, 06:09:56 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 22, 2020, 05:34:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 22, 2020, 04:56:56 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 22, 2020, 04:42:33 PM
The r number hasn't went up in England since lockdown was released. Just confirmed on sky news.

That's essentially fake news. The "R" number is based in data from 2 weeks ago. So they don't know what the R number is today and won't for another 2 weeks.
In regards to NI. I don't actually disagree with the lockdown but it has been utterly pointless. More people were exempt from it that subject to it. Most people got fucked off after 2 weeks and gave up with no consequences. Our local shop had a queuing systems for all of one weekend then this just went f**k it. The questions at press conferences in the UK circled around PPE over and over and over again. Did any BBC journalist ask a question about anything else? There wasn't a proper test, trace and track system put in place yet not one journalist pushed this. There has been little or no honesty from government or scientific advisers. For example and the numbers prove it, this is a disease were if you are over 70 the risk is 1000's times greater. The risk to young people is minuscule. The modelling is exactly that, a computer model based on information for the most part which is guessed. Just a best guess. Why can't they come out and be honest? And now were hit with this shite that we're all amateur virologist and statisticians. Well who would notice us amateurs from the real thing? as the UK government presides over the 3rd worst death total in the world and they're on a f**king island.
Unprepared, untruthful, and utter omnishambles.

I love the way you keep repeating this as if you've hit on some sort of hot take.

We all f**king know this you balloon.

It needs repeating because people seem to think sending children to school is a risk to them when it isn't. And I'll keep repeating it until people realise it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 22, 2020, 06:11:01 PM
Quote from: lenny on May 22, 2020, 05:45:00 PM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 05:29:00 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 03:52:42 PM
But surely the lockdown saved 1000's of lives?
Thats is why we are over the first peak.

No lockdown means it would keep spreading

Sweden seems to suggest the opposite. Economic and social activity in the UK and Ireland was shrivelling to nothing anyway before the formal lockdowns came into force. Swedish shops, restaurants etc were allowed stay open but punters stayed away in their droves. Now the British and Irish governments are both up their ears in fresh debt and have a battle on their hands working out how to reverse lockdown.

Does Sweden not have the highest death rate per capita in the world. Their government is being slated from everyone and have even apologised for how they've handled things.

Only if you read the numbers very selectively. This article from The Sun, the biggest selling paper in Britain, sums up the bulls**t lies and spin that are being peddled:

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5453139/swedens-coronavirus-death-toll-highest-world/

Headline
QuoteSweden's coronavirus death toll is the HIGHEST in the world per capita over the last week after ignoring lockdowns

Text
QuoteMany of these other countries saw far more virus deaths earlier in the pandemic, but managed to bring down the numbers with strict lockdown measures.

Sweden has the eighth highest overall per capita death toll in the world - when these earlier deaths are included as well, Worldometer stats say.

What the headline actually is meant to mean is that Sweden's death rate was the highest in the world based solely on deaths last week. 


Meanwhile back in the real world, Statista has Sweden in 6th place. (the usual caveats on death counts apply)

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 22, 2020, 06:25:14 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 22, 2020, 06:09:56 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 22, 2020, 05:34:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 22, 2020, 04:56:56 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 22, 2020, 04:42:33 PM
The r number hasn't went up in England since lockdown was released. Just confirmed on sky news.

That's essentially fake news. The "R" number is based in data from 2 weeks ago. So they don't know what the R number is today and won't for another 2 weeks.
In regards to NI. I don't actually disagree with the lockdown but it has been utterly pointless. More people were exempt from it that subject to it. Most people got fucked off after 2 weeks and gave up with no consequences. Our local shop had a queuing systems for all of one weekend then this just went f**k it. The questions at press conferences in the UK circled around PPE over and over and over again. Did any BBC journalist ask a question about anything else? There wasn't a proper test, trace and track system put in place yet not one journalist pushed this. There has been little or no honesty from government or scientific advisers. For example and the numbers prove it, this is a disease were if you are over 70 the risk is 1000's times greater. The risk to young people is minuscule. The modelling is exactly that, a computer model based on information for the most part which is guessed. Just a best guess. Why can't they come out and be honest? And now were hit with this shite that we're all amateur virologist and statisticians. Well who would notice us amateurs from the real thing? as the UK government presides over the 3rd worst death total in the world and they're on a f**king island.
Unprepared, untruthful, and utter omnishambles.

I love the way you keep repeating this as if you've hit on some sort of hot take.

We all f**king know this you balloon.

It needs repeating because people seem to think sending children to school is a risk to them when it isn't. And I'll keep repeating it until people realise it.

Kids have very mild symptoms but do they carry it? And can they pass it on? You've still not answered that, but I'll repeat it anyways.

Have you sent the kids back to school yet? They can be minded if your wife is a nurse?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 06:26:58 PM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 06:11:01 PM
Quote from: lenny on May 22, 2020, 05:45:00 PM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 05:29:00 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 03:52:42 PM
But surely the lockdown saved 1000's of lives?
Thats is why we are over the first peak.

No lockdown means it would keep spreading

Sweden seems to suggest the opposite. Economic and social activity in the UK and Ireland was shrivelling to nothing anyway before the formal lockdowns came into force. Swedish shops, restaurants etc were allowed stay open but punters stayed away in their droves. Now the British and Irish governments are both up their ears in fresh debt and have a battle on their hands working out how to reverse lockdown.

Does Sweden not have the highest death rate per capita in the world. Their government is being slated from everyone and have even apologised for how they've handled things.

Only if you read the numbers very selectively. This article from The Sun, the biggest selling paper in Britain, sums up the bulls**t lies and spin that are being peddled:

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5453139/swedens-coronavirus-death-toll-highest-world/

Headline
QuoteSweden's coronavirus death toll is the HIGHEST in the world per capita over the last week after ignoring lockdowns

Text
QuoteMany of these other countries saw far more virus deaths earlier in the pandemic, but managed to bring down the numbers with strict lockdown measures.

Sweden has the eighth highest overall per capita death toll in the world - when these earlier deaths are included as well, Worldometer stats say.

What the headline actually is meant to mean is that Sweden's death rate was the highest in the world based solely on deaths last week. 


Meanwhile back in the real world, Statista has Sweden in 6th place. (the usual caveats on death counts apply)

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

Fivepoints - you said the lockdown was a huge mistake and now you are quoting something that says 'managed to bring down the numbers with strict lockdown'

Seems somewhat contradictory?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 22, 2020, 06:41:21 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 06:26:58 PM
Fivepoints - you said the lockdown was a huge mistake and now you are quoting something that says 'managed to bring down the numbers with strict lockdown'
Yes. As an example of "bulls**t lies and spin"

Quote
Seems somewhat contradictory?
In that context, hardly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 06:45:41 PM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 06:41:21 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 06:26:58 PM
Fivepoints - you said the lockdown was a huge mistake and now you are quoting something that says 'managed to bring down the numbers with strict lockdown'
Yes. As an example of "bulls**t lies and spin"

Quote
Seems somewhat contradictory?
In that context, hardly.

Got it - mis read your post.

Still dont understand why you think lockdown was a mistake given the people that died before it and since it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 22, 2020, 06:53:17 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 06:45:41 PM
Still dont understand why you think lockdown was a mistake given the people that died before it and since it

The trends pretty much everywhere seem to indicate that this virus runs its course over a couple of months or so. With or without lockdown.

As for lockdowns, I remain to be convinced that we had one, in the real sense of the word.

Even with lockdown, large numbers of people still had to get up every day and go to work in essential services - including hospitals and care homes where the virus was running rampant - and go home again. And in the cities, many had to use public transport. So if the virus was really going to spread like wildfire in the community, it had ample opportunity to do so.

And then there are all the missed diagnoses and even treatments for cancer and other lethal illnesses and conditions...

I fully recognise that others may have different perspectives on it. That's okay too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 22, 2020, 07:00:57 PM
Interesting how well we have done here so far in Derry City. Even better than our neighbours in Donegal and better than rest of North outside Fermanagh. I'm not sure of reasons other than people took precautions very early on. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 22, 2020, 07:03:41 PM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 06:53:17 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 06:45:41 PM
Still dont understand why you think lockdown was a mistake given the people that died before it and since it

The trends pretty much everywhere seem to indicate that this virus runs its course over a couple of months or so. With or without lockdown.

As for lockdowns, I remain to be convinced that we had one, in the real sense of the word.

Even with lockdown, large numbers of people still had to get up every day and go to work in essential services - including hospitals and care homes where the virus was running rampant - and go home again. And in the cities, many had to use public transport. So if the virus was really going to spread like wildfire in the community, it had ample opportunity to do so.

And then there are all the missed diagnoses and even treatments for cancer and other lethal illnesses and conditions...

I fully recognise that others may have different perspectives on it. That's okay too.
Lockdown it wasn't a few restrictions put in place and Sweden had less restrictions and have experienced a higher death toll than Ireland.

Hard to know close to the true infection rate of Sweden with just 20,000 test per million population.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 22, 2020, 07:07:27 PM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 06:53:17 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 06:45:41 PM
Still dont understand why you think lockdown was a mistake given the people that died before it and since it

The trends pretty much everywhere seem to indicate that this virus runs its course over a couple of months or so. With or without lockdown.

As for lockdowns, I remain to be convinced that we had one, in the real sense of the word.

Even with lockdown, large numbers of people still had to get up every day and go to work in essential services - including hospitals and care homes where the virus was running rampant - and go home again. And in the cities, many had to use public transport. So if the virus was really going to spread like wildfire in the community, it had ample opportunity to do so.

And then there are all the missed diagnoses and even treatments for cancer and other lethal illnesses and conditions...

I fully recognise that others may have different perspectives on it. That's okay too.

As per Cuomo quoting the CDC today, they're thinking the spread via surface contamination is looking to be much less of an issue, with airborne spread the primary mode of transmission. Which means that assuming healthcare workers are wearing masks and practicing proper manual hygiene, they may be well protected. Apparently NY healthcare workers have been suffering very low rates of infection compared to other sectors.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 22, 2020, 07:14:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 22, 2020, 07:07:27 PM

As per Cuomo quoting the CDC today, they're thinking the spread via surface contamination is looking to be much less of an issue, with airborne spread the primary mode of transmission. Which means that assuming healthcare workers are wearing masks and practicing proper manual hygiene, they may be well protected. Apparently NY healthcare workers have been suffering very low rates of infection compared to other sectors.

Yeah, the virus seemed to die as a problem down here pretty soon once they got a handle on hospital and care home PPE. This may be to do with some sort of built-up immunity as much as from masks etc. We will obviously know more as time goes on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: redzone on May 22, 2020, 09:52:22 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 22, 2020, 07:00:57 PM
Interesting how well we have done here so far in Derry City. Even better than our neighbours in Donegal and better than rest of North outside Fermanagh. I'm not sure of reasons other than people took precautions very early on. 
FFS does it really need explaining. Yous are well used to lying about the house all day every day
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 22, 2020, 11:50:42 PM
Cummings breaking the lockdown and who's the first puppet to defend him.... Kuensberg. She is one pathetic individual.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 22, 2020, 11:57:37 PM
Keunsburg has went down in my estimation during this. Very poor
Cummings what a joke.
The absolute shit show continues
A complete mess from the start and it continues
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 23, 2020, 12:01:46 AM
Has GONE ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 23, 2020, 12:05:11 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 23, 2020, 12:01:46 AM
Has GONE ;)


Eh?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 12:07:56 AM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 03:49:59 PM
The first person to go to jail should be Ferguson.
Are you right in the head?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 12:11:07 AM
Quote from: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 03:52:42 PM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 03:12:02 PM
It seems obvious to me that the serial scaremonger Prof Neil Ferguson, with his faulty modelling, scared them into a lockdown from which they're now struggling to escape.  Given his pathetic record with previous forecasts, Ferguson should never been let near Imperial College let alone Downing Street.

It also seems obvious to me that the lockdown was a huge mistake, not least because they spent a lot of resources and time organising it when the focus should have been on PPE and basic organisation in care homes.

Now they've the worst of both words.

But surely the lockdown saved 1000's of lives?
Thats is why we are over the first peak.

No lockdown means it would keep spreading
Let's get one thing clear as day. Lockdowns save lives.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1263267426420039692/j49jWDS-?format=png&name=900x900)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/20/us/coronavirus-distancing-deaths.html?referringSource=articleShare
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 23, 2020, 07:52:47 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 22, 2020, 11:50:42 PM
Cummings breaking the lockdown and who's the first puppet to defend him.... Kuensberg. She is one pathetic individual.

Seems like  a tory puppet. The lockdown had to be done. Don't understand how anyone can think otherwise.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 23, 2020, 09:12:10 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 12:11:07 AM
Quote from: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 03:52:42 PM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 03:12:02 PM
It seems obvious to me that the serial scaremonger Prof Neil Ferguson, with his faulty modelling, scared them into a lockdown from which they're now struggling to escape.  Given his pathetic record with previous forecasts, Ferguson should never been let near Imperial College let alone Downing Street.

It also seems obvious to me that the lockdown was a huge mistake, not least because they spent a lot of resources and time organising it when the focus should have been on PPE and basic organisation in care homes.

Now they've the worst of both words.

But surely the lockdown saved 1000's of lives?
Thats is why we are over the first peak.

No lockdown means it would keep spreading
Let's get one thing clear as day. Lockdowns save lives.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1263267426420039692/j49jWDS-?format=png&name=900x900)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/20/us/coronavirus-distancing-deaths.html?referringSource=articleShare

Do explain Sid. In your own words. A link to someone else's "study" and an oul graph don't really cut it. The world is full of those.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 23, 2020, 10:47:24 AM
Lockdown has saved lives but how many we do not know. People need to realise lockdown was needed but now it's not. The surge didn't come. Never was going to come. The scenes in Italy scared us all. It's time to open up. Leo needs to put a stamp on things before he flies in a week or so. Michael Martin would not fill us with much confidence mind you. 290 people in all settings in hospital the the South of Ireland. Seriously what is the hold up with opening things. Yes we are going to see spikes but hospitals are now prepared. Lockdown needs to end. Everyone coming into Ireland from next Thursday needs to quarantine for 14 days or face a €2500 fine. Good call that. Even more reason to open up our island. Pubs not open to August. Come on what's that about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 10:56:56 AM
Quote from: five points on May 23, 2020, 09:12:10 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 12:11:07 AM
Quote from: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 03:52:42 PM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 03:12:02 PM
It seems obvious to me that the serial scaremonger Prof Neil Ferguson, with his faulty modelling, scared them into a lockdown from which they're now struggling to escape.  Given his pathetic record with previous forecasts, Ferguson should never been let near Imperial College let alone Downing Street.

It also seems obvious to me that the lockdown was a huge mistake, not least because they spent a lot of resources and time organising it when the focus should have been on PPE and basic organisation in care homes.

Now they've the worst of both words.

But surely the lockdown saved 1000's of lives?
Thats is why we are over the first peak.

No lockdown means it would keep spreading
Let's get one thing clear as day. Lockdowns save lives.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1263267426420039692/j49jWDS-?format=png&name=900x900)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/20/us/coronavirus-distancing-deaths.html?referringSource=articleShare

Do explain Sid. In your own words. A link to someone else's "study" and an oul graph don't really cut it. The world is full of those.
You think the raimeis you've offered on this thread "cuts it"?

This is an extremely serious virus which kills people in large numbers if left to spread unimpeded.

None of this is difficult to understand.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 23, 2020, 11:04:55 AM
As is cancer Sid which has sadly been put in the back burner. The flu kills people. Diabetes kills people. Depression kills people
Let's reopen things
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 11:05:12 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 22, 2020, 11:57:37 PM
Keunsburg has went down in my estimation during this. Very poor
Cummings what a joke.
The absolute shit show continues
A complete mess from the start and it continues
If Kuennsberg has fallen in your estimation during Coronavirus, you weren't paying attention to what she was doing previously.

The way she has carried on during this is of a piece with her entire career.

There's a reason people call her Laura Riefenstahl. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 11:05:47 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 23, 2020, 11:04:55 AM
As is cancer Sid which has sadly been put in the back burner. The flu kills people. Diabetes kills people. Depression kills people
Let's reopen things
Jesus wept.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 23, 2020, 11:09:06 AM
What's wrong Sid? My opinion not suit your narrative? Jesus wept as if you know all.
Open up now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mouview on May 23, 2020, 11:55:03 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 23, 2020, 11:04:55 AM
As is cancer Sid which has sadly been put in the back burner. The flu kills people. Diabetes kills people. Depression kills people
Let's reopen things

Bar the flu', none of the others are contagious, and all can be combated or alleviated to an extent by known medical treatments or procedures. Covid-19 is highly virulent, can be fatal, especially to those who are vulnerable or whose health is compromised, and no cure or vaccine has yet been discovered for it. The Black Plague only disappeared when enough people isolated themselves from those that carried it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 23, 2020, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 23, 2020, 10:47:24 AMSeriously what is the hold up with opening things.

The longer the spread is diminishing, the far smaller any potential uptick after reopening - which allows time to get it contained.

Exponential growth has a cousin... exponential decay.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 23, 2020, 12:15:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 23, 2020, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 23, 2020, 10:47:24 AMSeriously what is the hold up with opening things.

The longer the spread is diminishing, the far smaller any potential uptick after reopening - which allows time to get it contained.

Exponential growth has a cousin... exponential decay.

The objective of the lockdown to reduce the numbers greatly. Then lesser measures can keep those numbers low and if there is a second wave it starts from a low base. The SMurfy123's of this world want to relax the lockdown and proceed with muich higher numbers becasue they are too impatient to wait a week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 23, 2020, 12:26:43 PM
They better not release lockdown too quick - I don't want to catch diabetes at the shop ;D

Cummings getting some flak. Be nice if he bit the dust.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 23, 2020, 12:45:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 23, 2020, 12:26:43 PM
They better not release lockdown too quick - I don't want to catch diabetes at the shop ;D

Stay out of the confectioners then.

QuoteCummings getting some flak. Be nice if he bit the dust.

He may be "sacked", while continuing to control the puppets from the background.
Pritti Patel was "sacked" and yet she is back spouting poison, this government have no shame.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 23, 2020, 12:50:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 23, 2020, 12:45:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 23, 2020, 12:26:43 PM
They better not release lockdown too quick - I don't want to catch diabetes at the shop ;D

Stay out of the confectioners then.

QuoteCummings getting some flak. Be nice if he bit the dust.

He may be "sacked", while continuing to control the puppets from the background.
Pritti Patel was "sacked" and yet she is back spouting poison, this government have no shame.

Not a chance he'll be sacked. The subservient rats are all over twitter defending him. Pity they didn't all congregate in a big hotel again, in say Brighton!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 23, 2020, 04:27:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 10:56:56 AM
Quote from: five points on May 23, 2020, 09:12:10 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 12:11:07 AM
Quote from: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 03:52:42 PM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 03:12:02 PM
It seems obvious to me that the serial scaremonger Prof Neil Ferguson, with his faulty modelling, scared them into a lockdown from which they're now struggling to escape.  Given his pathetic record with previous forecasts, Ferguson should never been let near Imperial College let alone Downing Street.

It also seems obvious to me that the lockdown was a huge mistake, not least because they spent a lot of resources and time organising it when the focus should have been on PPE and basic organisation in care homes.

Now they've the worst of both words.

But surely the lockdown saved 1000's of lives?
Thats is why we are over the first peak.

No lockdown means it would keep spreading
Let's get one thing clear as day. Lockdowns save lives.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1263267426420039692/j49jWDS-?format=png&name=900x900)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/20/us/coronavirus-distancing-deaths.html?referringSource=articleShare

Do explain Sid. In your own words. A link to someone else's "study" and an oul graph don't really cut it. The world is full of those.
You think the raimeis you've offered on this thread "cuts it"?

This is an extremely serious virus which kills people in large numbers if left to spread unimpeded.

None of this is difficult to understand.

You still haven't explained anything.

All you have so far are buzzwords and passive-aggressive slogans like  "Are you right in the head?" and "Jesus wept".

We're all ears.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 04:38:39 PM
Quote from: five points on May 23, 2020, 04:27:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 10:56:56 AM
Quote from: five points on May 23, 2020, 09:12:10 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 12:11:07 AM
Quote from: Taylor on May 22, 2020, 03:52:42 PM
Quote from: five points on May 22, 2020, 03:12:02 PM
It seems obvious to me that the serial scaremonger Prof Neil Ferguson, with his faulty modelling, scared them into a lockdown from which they're now struggling to escape.  Given his pathetic record with previous forecasts, Ferguson should never been let near Imperial College let alone Downing Street.

It also seems obvious to me that the lockdown was a huge mistake, not least because they spent a lot of resources and time organising it when the focus should have been on PPE and basic organisation in care homes.

Now they've the worst of both words.

But surely the lockdown saved 1000's of lives?
Thats is why we are over the first peak.

No lockdown means it would keep spreading
Let's get one thing clear as day. Lockdowns save lives.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1263267426420039692/j49jWDS-?format=png&name=900x900)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/20/us/coronavirus-distancing-deaths.html?referringSource=articleShare

Do explain Sid. In your own words. A link to someone else's "study" and an oul graph don't really cut it. The world is full of those.
You think the raimeis you've offered on this thread "cuts it"?

This is an extremely serious virus which kills people in large numbers if left to spread unimpeded.

None of this is difficult to understand.

You still haven't explained anything.

All you have so far are buzzwords and passive-aggressive slogans like  "Are you right in the head?" and "Jesus wept".

We're all ears.
What on earth do you need explained? 

You're the person claiming lockdowns don't help stop the spread of the virus.

Yet all evidence from literally everywhere in the world says they do.

You're the person that says that the virus will go away of its own accord like a miracle.

Yet there's no evidence that this is the case.

You also said that Neil Ferguson should be in prison. That's the comment of a lunatic.

So forgive me if you I don't pay any respect to what you say.

Respect for opinions is earned, your postings here have earned none.

Respect for protecting human life in a pandemic shoulld be a given in any reasonable individual - you appear to have none.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 04:45:46 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 23, 2020, 12:50:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 23, 2020, 12:45:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 23, 2020, 12:26:43 PM
They better not release lockdown too quick - I don't want to catch diabetes at the shop ;D

Stay out of the confectioners then.

QuoteCummings getting some flak. Be nice if he bit the dust.

He may be "sacked", while continuing to control the puppets from the background.
Pritti Patel was "sacked" and yet she is back spouting poison, this government have no shame.

Not a chance he'll be sacked. The subservient rats are all over twitter defending him. Pity they didn't all congregate in a big hotel again, in say Brighton!
Flaunting impunity is a key requirement for crypto-fascism and kleptocratic regimes.

They push and they push to see what they can get away with.

Cummings won't resign and he won't be sacked, and compliant, careerist, amoral access journalists will continue to parrot the Tory line at all costs.

The Tory media will likely try and flip the script in some way, and quickly.

That's exactly what has happened in the US.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 23, 2020, 04:59:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 04:38:39 PM
What on earth do you need explained? 

You're the person claiming lockdowns don't help stop the spread of the virus.

Yet all evidence from literally everywhere in the world says they do.

You're the person that says that the virus will go away of its own accord like a miracle.

Yet there's no evidence that this is the case.

You also said that Neil Ferguson should be in prison. That's the comment of a lunatic.

So forgive me if you I don't pay any respect to what you say.

Respect for opinions is earned, your postings here have earned none.

Respect for protecting human life in a pandemic shoulld be a given in any reasonable individual - you appear to have none.

There is plenty of evidence that viruses do indeed go away of their own accord, otherwise we'd never have been rid of the Spanish flu among others.

I asked you for evidence to support your "Let's get one thing clear as day. Lockdowns save lives." comment and you've produced only deflection and ad hominem.

As late as last October the WHO stated without equivocation that there is no evidence to suggest that lockdowns are effective in countering a pandemic.

Again: where is the evidence in the meantime?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 05:20:32 PM
Quote from: five points on May 23, 2020, 04:59:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 04:38:39 PM
What on earth do you need explained? 

You're the person claiming lockdowns don't help stop the spread of the virus.

Yet all evidence from literally everywhere in the world says they do.

You're the person that says that the virus will go away of its own accord like a miracle.

Yet there's no evidence that this is the case.

You also said that Neil Ferguson should be in prison. That's the comment of a lunatic.

So forgive me if you I don't pay any respect to what you say.

Respect for opinions is earned, your postings here have earned none.

Respect for protecting human life in a pandemic shoulld be a given in any reasonable individual - you appear to have none.

There is plenty of evidence that viruses do indeed go away of their own accord, otherwise we'd never have been rid of the Spanish flu among others.

I asked you for evidence to support your "Let's get one thing clear as day. Lockdowns save lives." comment and you've produced only deflection and ad hominem.

As late as last October the WHO stated without equivocation that there is no evidence to suggest that lockdowns are effective in countering a pandemic.

Again: where is the evidence in the meantime?

You're gaslighting.

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/19/10484

We draw scenarios of different containment measures and their impact. Results suggest that the sequence of restrictions posed to mobility and human-to-human interactions have reduced transmission by 45% (42 to 49%). Averted hospitalizations are measured by running scenarios obtained by selectively relaxing the imposed restrictions and total about 200,000 individuals (as of March 25, 2020). Although a number of assumptions need to be reexamined, like age structure in social mixing patterns and in the distribution of mobility, hospitalization, and fatality, we conclude that verifiable evidence exists to support the planning of emergency measures.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w26906

We find, using simulations with these estimates, that the lockdown of the city of Wuhan on January 23, 2020 contributed significantly to reducing the total infection cases outside of Wuhan, even with the social distancing measures later imposed by other cities. We find that the COVID-19 cases would be 64.81% higher in the 347 Chinese cities outside Hubei province, and 52.64% higher in the 16 non-Wuhan cities inside Hubei, in the counterfactual world in which the city of Wuhan were not locked down from January 23, 2020. We also find that there were substantial undocumented infection cases in the early days of the 2019-nCoV outbreak in Wuhan and other cities of Hubei province, but over time, the gap between the officially reported cases and our estimated "actual" cases narrows significantly. We also find evidence that enhanced social distancing policies in the 63 Chinese cities outside Hubei province are effective in reducing the impact of population inflows from the epicenter cities in Hubei province on the spread of 2019-nCoV virus in the destination cities elsewhere.

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/19/10484

The problem with irrational contrarians and gaslighters is that they will use literally everything as confirmation bias for their own stupid views.

You fall straight into that category.

You don't look at the evidence and form an opinion from that.

You form an opinion and then look for evidence to confim that opinion, and if you the evidence contradicts your opinion, you dismiss it.

You claim that COVID-19 will go away of its own accord in the near future. You say it's no longer a problem. I asked you for evidence to back up your claim.

You provided none.

I also asked you to explain why you say Neil Ferguson "should be in prison".

You haven't backed that up either.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 05:24:59 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 23, 2020, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 23, 2020, 10:47:24 AMSeriously what is the hold up with opening things.

The longer the spread is diminishing, the far smaller any potential uptick after reopening - which allows time to get it contained.

Exponential growth has a cousin... exponential decay.
But we aren't seeing exponential "decay". We're seeing slow, gradual "decay".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 05:30:36 PM
Quote from: five points on May 15, 2020, 12:05:19 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 15, 2020, 11:51:58 AM
So almost a quarter of players said they wont play with a further 1/5 undecided.

Means many many teams wouldnt have the numbers to field - simple fact of the matter

You seem to be hoping that the GAA will fail to get going again for the foreseeable future. Odd.
And in terms of gaslighting by "five points", this is an absolute classic.

Regard for public health and the health of GAA members and local communities now equals "hoping that the GAA will fail".

You should tell that to John Horan.

Professional contrarians and gaslighters are a special breed of stupid.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 05:45:53 PM
I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Cummings breaking the lockdown with impunity and the leaking of the story is an attempt by the Tories to ditch restrictions by the backdoor.

Let's face it, the Tories never wanted restrictions, they were shamed into it by public opinion, they wanted to let the virus run through the population like wildfire.

When people see Cummings getting away with breaking the rules and being outright defended for doing so by the Tories, ordinary people will say to themselves, "well, if the Tories are breaking the rules, why should I follow them?"

Which is likely the point of the whole thing - and the Tories don't then have to go against the scientists to end restrictions - they can just blame such, and the likely resulting rise in cases and deaths, on ordinary people.

"Wasn't our fault, guv, it was the people wot done it".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on May 23, 2020, 06:30:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 05:45:53 PM
I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Cummings breaking the lockdown with impunity and the leaking of the story is an attempt by the Tories to ditch restrictions by the backdoor.

Let's face it, the Tories never wanted restrictions, they were shamed into it by public opinion, they wanted to let the virus run through the population like wildfire.

When people see Cummings getting away with breaking the rules and being outright defended for doing so by the Tories, ordinary people will say to themselves, "well, if the Tories are breaking the rules, why should I follow them?"

Which is likely the point of the whole thing - and the Tories don't then have to go against the scientists to end restrictions - they can just blame such, and the likely resulting rise in cases and deaths, on ordinary people.

"Wasn't our fault, guv, it was the people wot done it".

I can't believe the Tories are that cynical or intelligent.

I am surprised Cummings hasn't resigned yet. Normally when something like this happens in the UK the politician or individual resigns pretty quickly. Very rare to see someone adopt the Irish approach to deny, deny, deny and insist he's done nothing wrong.

They showed a cabinet minister at a press conference trying to defend him on sky news earlier. It was car crash stuff and something you'd normally expect to see from our Irish politicians trying to defend the indefensible. I can't see how he keeps his job.

Boris hasn't been seen much since he recovered from Covid-19 so you'd wonder who exactly is in charge now and this could be part of the problem
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 23, 2020, 07:06:10 PM
All day I've been thinking not a f**king chance he'll go, he's got some sort of Indian Yogi mind grip on Boris Johnson, but when the Spectator comes out swinging the Tories will have to sit up and take notice
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-dominic-cummings-must-go/amp?__twitter_impression=true

I'm looking forward to the Sunday Times tomorrow.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: pbat on May 23, 2020, 07:44:06 PM
Now there is a second trip, surely he has to go now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 23, 2020, 08:02:17 PM
Quote from: pbat on May 23, 2020, 07:44:06 PM
Now there is a second trip, surely he has to go now.

Come on man. Link??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 23, 2020, 08:12:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 05:20:32 PM

You're gaslighting.

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/19/10484

We draw scenarios of different containment measures and their impact. Results suggest that the sequence of restrictions posed to mobility and human-to-human interactions have reduced transmission by 45% (42 to 49%). Averted hospitalizations are measured by running scenarios obtained by selectively relaxing the imposed restrictions and total about 200,000 individuals (as of March 25, 2020). Although a number of assumptions need to be reexamined, like age structure in social mixing patterns and in the distribution of mobility, hospitalization, and fatality, we conclude that verifiable evidence exists to support the planning of emergency measures.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w26906

We find, using simulations with these estimates, that the lockdown of the city of Wuhan on January 23, 2020 contributed significantly to reducing the total infection cases outside of Wuhan, even with the social distancing measures later imposed by other cities. We find that the COVID-19 cases would be 64.81% higher in the 347 Chinese cities outside Hubei province, and 52.64% higher in the 16 non-Wuhan cities inside Hubei, in the counterfactual world in which the city of Wuhan were not locked down from January 23, 2020. We also find that there were substantial undocumented infection cases in the early days of the 2019-nCoV outbreak in Wuhan and other cities of Hubei province, but over time, the gap between the officially reported cases and our estimated "actual" cases narrows significantly. We also find evidence that enhanced social distancing policies in the 63 Chinese cities outside Hubei province are effective in reducing the impact of population inflows from the epicenter cities in Hubei province on the spread of 2019-nCoV virus in the destination cities elsewhere.

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/19/10484

The problem with irrational contrarians and gaslighters is that they will use literally everything as confirmation bias for their own stupid views.

You fall straight into that category.

You don't look at the evidence and form an opinion from that.

You form an opinion and then look for evidence to confim that opinion, and if you the evidence contradicts your opinion, you dismiss it.

You claim that COVID-19 will go away of its own accord in the near future. You say it's no longer a problem. I asked you for evidence to back up your claim.

You provided none.

I also asked you to explain why you say Neil Ferguson "should be in prison".

You haven't backed that up either.

If I am gaslighting, then so is The Lancet.

QuoteIt has become clear that a hard lockdown does not protect old and frail people living in care homes—a population the lockdown was designed to protect. Neither does it decrease mortality from COVID-19, which is evident when comparing the UK's experience with that of other European countries
.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31035-7/fulltext#%20

I cited the precedent of the Spanish flu aa an example of a pandemic that went away of its own accord.

As for my opinion on Ferguson, it was and remains presented as such and not as objective fact. The mayhem and destruction unleashed by his fraudulent interpretation of his own incompetent computer model is in my opinion beyond criminal. You of course are free to disagree if you wish.

I will not be responding to your intemperate ad hominem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 23, 2020, 08:12:44 PM
Jesus, the litany of mistakes & travesties this crowd are running up is getting ridiculous. Fitting if the Cult of Dom brings it all down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: pbat on May 23, 2020, 08:16:13 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 23, 2020, 08:02:17 PM
Quote from: pbat on May 23, 2020, 07:44:06 PM
Now there is a second trip, surely he has to go now.

Come on man. Link??
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/dominic-cummings-ignored-coronavirus-lockdown-22075857?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on May 23, 2020, 08:29:32 PM
Jesus the press (Mirror?) have played a blinder with this. Loving it. Let them squirm all day see if they gonna brave it out then wham hit them with a a second outing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 08:47:01 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 23, 2020, 06:30:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 05:45:53 PM
I wouldn't be one bit surprised if Cummings breaking the lockdown with impunity and the leaking of the story is an attempt by the Tories to ditch restrictions by the backdoor.

Let's face it, the Tories never wanted restrictions, they were shamed into it by public opinion, they wanted to let the virus run through the population like wildfire.

When people see Cummings getting away with breaking the rules and being outright defended for doing so by the Tories, ordinary people will say to themselves, "well, if the Tories are breaking the rules, why should I follow them?"

Which is likely the point of the whole thing - and the Tories don't then have to go against the scientists to end restrictions - they can just blame such, and the likely resulting rise in cases and deaths, on ordinary people.

"Wasn't our fault, guv, it was the people wot done it".

I can't believe the Tories are that cynical or intelligent.

I am surprised Cummings hasn't resigned yet. Normally when something like this happens in the UK the politician or individual resigns pretty quickly. Very rare to see someone adopt the Irish approach to deny, deny, deny and insist he's done nothing wrong.

They showed a cabinet minister at a press conference trying to defend him on sky news earlier. It was car crash stuff and something you'd normally expect to see from our Irish politicians trying to defend the indefensible. I can't see how he keeps his job.

Boris hasn't been seen much since he recovered from Covid-19 so you'd wonder who exactly is in charge now and this could be part of the problem
This is not a normal government, even by Tory standards. It's far more comparable to the Trump regime than it is to Theresa May's government. And in terms of cyncism, it should never be underestimated. It's a full blown far right culture war regime.

Cummings is their Bannon, he's a Russian style political technologist. They'll move heaven and earth to protect him, they'll dig in like Trump dug in over Kavanaugh.

They have a mass media bullshit machine to queer the pitch for them. That shouldn't be underestimated either.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 08:59:58 PM
Quote from: five points on May 23, 2020, 08:12:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 05:20:32 PM

You're gaslighting.

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/19/10484

We draw scenarios of different containment measures and their impact. Results suggest that the sequence of restrictions posed to mobility and human-to-human interactions have reduced transmission by 45% (42 to 49%). Averted hospitalizations are measured by running scenarios obtained by selectively relaxing the imposed restrictions and total about 200,000 individuals (as of March 25, 2020). Although a number of assumptions need to be reexamined, like age structure in social mixing patterns and in the distribution of mobility, hospitalization, and fatality, we conclude that verifiable evidence exists to support the planning of emergency measures.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w26906

We find, using simulations with these estimates, that the lockdown of the city of Wuhan on January 23, 2020 contributed significantly to reducing the total infection cases outside of Wuhan, even with the social distancing measures later imposed by other cities. We find that the COVID-19 cases would be 64.81% higher in the 347 Chinese cities outside Hubei province, and 52.64% higher in the 16 non-Wuhan cities inside Hubei, in the counterfactual world in which the city of Wuhan were not locked down from January 23, 2020. We also find that there were substantial undocumented infection cases in the early days of the 2019-nCoV outbreak in Wuhan and other cities of Hubei province, but over time, the gap between the officially reported cases and our estimated "actual" cases narrows significantly. We also find evidence that enhanced social distancing policies in the 63 Chinese cities outside Hubei province are effective in reducing the impact of population inflows from the epicenter cities in Hubei province on the spread of 2019-nCoV virus in the destination cities elsewhere.

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/19/10484

The problem with irrational contrarians and gaslighters is that they will use literally everything as confirmation bias for their own stupid views.

You fall straight into that category.

You don't look at the evidence and form an opinion from that.

You form an opinion and then look for evidence to confim that opinion, and if you the evidence contradicts your opinion, you dismiss it.

You claim that COVID-19 will go away of its own accord in the near future. You say it's no longer a problem. I asked you for evidence to back up your claim.

You provided none.

I also asked you to explain why you say Neil Ferguson "should be in prison".

You haven't backed that up either.

If I am gaslighting, then so is The Lancet.

QuoteIt has become clear that a hard lockdown does not protect old and frail people living in care homes—a population the lockdown was designed to protect. Neither does it decrease mortality from COVID-19, which is evident when comparing the UK's experience with that of other European countries
.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31035-7/fulltext#%20

I cited the precedent of the Spanish flu aa an example of a pandemic that went away of its own accord.

As for my opinion on Ferguson, it was and remains presented as such and not as objective fact. The mayhem and destruction unleashed by his fraudulent interpretation of his own incompetent computer model is in my opinion beyond criminal. You of course are free to disagree if you wish.

I will not be responding to your intemperate ad hominem.

The Spanish Flu is not a precedent for how this virus behaves, it was a flu virus, not a coronavirus. And the Spanish Flu killed around 50-80 million people. Why are citing something that killed multiple times the amount that died in World War II as "precedent" for Covid if you think Covid is "not a problem"?

You're complaining about ad hominems after claiming that somebody should be in prison? Pull the other one.

Neil Ferguson unleashed no mayhem. He is a mathematical modeller. His advice forced the British government to change tack from their utterly calamitous "herd immunity" strategy which you obviously supported, given that you so oppose lockdown. The genie was out of the bottle by then, and a calamity was unavoidable, but it could have been several times greater if not for Ferguson.

And you think he should be in prison? For offering advice which helped to save lives? What kind of a person are you at all?

The reason people in care homes have died is because the UK Government didn't give a shit about the people in care homes. It's nothing to do with lockdown. People in care homes can generally only be cared for through bodily contact and close proximity to patients, which is exactly how this virus spreads. The UK Government forced infected people into care homes and failed on PPE. That's why there has been a holocaust of people in care homes. The Irish Government failed on care homes too.

You said the UK avoided an Italy scenario. They most certainly did not.







Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on May 23, 2020, 09:07:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 08:59:58 PM
Quote from: five points on May 23, 2020, 08:12:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 05:20:32 PM

You're gaslighting.

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/19/10484

We draw scenarios of different containment measures and their impact. Results suggest that the sequence of restrictions posed to mobility and human-to-human interactions have reduced transmission by 45% (42 to 49%). Averted hospitalizations are measured by running scenarios obtained by selectively relaxing the imposed restrictions and total about 200,000 individuals (as of March 25, 2020). Although a number of assumptions need to be reexamined, like age structure in social mixing patterns and in the distribution of mobility, hospitalization, and fatality, we conclude that verifiable evidence exists to support the planning of emergency measures.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w26906

We find, using simulations with these estimates, that the lockdown of the city of Wuhan on January 23, 2020 contributed significantly to reducing the total infection cases outside of Wuhan, even with the social distancing measures later imposed by other cities. We find that the COVID-19 cases would be 64.81% higher in the 347 Chinese cities outside Hubei province, and 52.64% higher in the 16 non-Wuhan cities inside Hubei, in the counterfactual world in which the city of Wuhan were not locked down from January 23, 2020. We also find that there were substantial undocumented infection cases in the early days of the 2019-nCoV outbreak in Wuhan and other cities of Hubei province, but over time, the gap between the officially reported cases and our estimated "actual" cases narrows significantly. We also find evidence that enhanced social distancing policies in the 63 Chinese cities outside Hubei province are effective in reducing the impact of population inflows from the epicenter cities in Hubei province on the spread of 2019-nCoV virus in the destination cities elsewhere.

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/19/10484

The problem with irrational contrarians and gaslighters is that they will use literally everything as confirmation bias for their own stupid views.

You fall straight into that category.

You don't look at the evidence and form an opinion from that.

You form an opinion and then look for evidence to confim that opinion, and if you the evidence contradicts your opinion, you dismiss it.

You claim that COVID-19 will go away of its own accord in the near future. You say it's no longer a problem. I asked you for evidence to back up your claim.

You provided none.

I also asked you to explain why you say Neil Ferguson "should be in prison".

You haven't backed that up either.

If I am gaslighting, then so is The Lancet.

QuoteIt has become clear that a hard lockdown does not protect old and frail people living in care homes—a population the lockdown was designed to protect. Neither does it decrease mortality from COVID-19, which is evident when comparing the UK's experience with that of other European countries
.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31035-7/fulltext#%20

I cited the precedent of the Spanish flu aa an example of a pandemic that went away of its own accord.

As for my opinion on Ferguson, it was and remains presented as such and not as objective fact. The mayhem and destruction unleashed by his fraudulent interpretation of his own incompetent computer model is in my opinion beyond criminal. You of course are free to disagree if you wish.

I will not be responding to your intemperate ad hominem.

The Spanish Flu is not a precedent for how this virus behaves, it was a flu virus, not a coronavirus. And the Spanish Flu killed around 50-80 million people. Why are citing something that killed multiple times the amount that died in World War II as "precedent" for Covid if you think Covid is "not a problem"?

You're complaining about ad hominems after claiming that somebody should be in prison? Pull the other one.

Neil Ferguson unleashed no mayhem. He is a mathematical modeller. His advice forced the British government to change tack from their utterly calamitous "herd immunity" strategy which you obviously supported, given that you so oppose lockdown. The genie was out of the bottle by then, and a calamity was unavoidable, but it could have been several times greater if not for Ferguson.

And you think he should be in prison? For offering advice which helped to save lives? What kind of a person are you at all?

The reason people in care homes have died is because the UK Government didn't give a shit about the people in care homes. It's nothing to do with lockdown. People in care homes can generally only be cared for through bodily contact and close proximity to patients, which is exactly how this virus spreads. The UK Government forced infected people into care homes and failed on PPE. That's why there has been a holocaust of people in care homes. The Irish Government failed on care homes too.

You said the UK avoided an Italy scenario. They most certainly did not.
Ferguson presumably didn't follow his own advice when he was ######## his bit on the side despite predicting up to 500000 deaths if we all don't self isolate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 09:09:03 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on May 23, 2020, 09:07:13 PM

Ferguson presumably didn't follow his own advice when he was ######## his bit on the side despite predicting up to 500000 deaths if we all don't self isolate.
He broke his own advice. But how does that invalidate his work, may I ask?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on May 23, 2020, 09:14:26 PM
The press get a bad rap and deservedly so at times but they set a phenomenal trap for the Govt which was fallen for hook line and sinker.

A work of art!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 23, 2020, 09:16:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 08:59:58 PM


You said the UK avoided an Italy scenario.

Did I?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 23, 2020, 09:22:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 08:59:58 PM


The Spanish Flu is not a precedent for how this virus behaves, it was a flu virus, not a coronavirus. And the Spanish Flu killed around 50-80 million people. Why are citing something that killed multiple times the amount that died in World War II as "precedent" for Covid if you think Covid is "not a problem"?

2002–2004 SARS  is another precedent.

QuoteYou're complaining about ad hominems after claiming that somebody should be in prison? Pull the other one.
No, I told you I won't be responding to them. No matter how hard you try.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 23, 2020, 09:37:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 05:24:59 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 23, 2020, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 23, 2020, 10:47:24 AMSeriously what is the hold up with opening things.

The longer the spread is diminishing, the far smaller any potential uptick after reopening - which allows time to get it contained.

Exponential growth has a cousin... exponential decay.
But we aren't seeing exponential "decay". We're seeing slow, gradual "decay".

If 1 person spreads it to 0.6 people and that spread happens over 2 weeks, then

in 4 weeks you have 0.6^2

In 6 weeks you have 0.6^3

etc


We are seeing slow gradual decay as the rate of spread (analogous to R0) is constantly changing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omaghjoe on May 23, 2020, 09:40:45 PM
Not sure of the exact details of Cummings actions but it raises an important question for all parents with children in the scenario where you both get sick and are unable to care for the children.
It's something my wife and I have discussed and we didnt really come up with a good solution as most of our back up care givers would be high risk and the children could well be asymptomatic carriers that could pass it on to them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 23, 2020, 09:43:55 PM
Quote from: five points on May 23, 2020, 08:12:29 PM
If I am gaslighting, then so is The Lancet.

QuoteIt has become clear that a hard lockdown does not protect old and frail people living in care homes—a population the lockdown was designed to protect. Neither does it decrease mortality from COVID-19, which is evident when comparing the UK's experience with that of other European countries
.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31035-7/fulltext#%20


That is an extremely poor article within the Lancet and I'm flabbergasted they published it.

Its little more than a puff piece (by a Swede) supporting the Swedish position.

Indeed, on a further 10 seconds reflection its outright f**king pathetic they allowed that to be published.

A "review" piece (it must be a review piece because it undertakes no study of its own) that presents 4 references.


I've binned papers that I thought unfit to see the light of day - and they would be 10 times better than that shite.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on May 23, 2020, 10:06:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 09:09:03 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on May 23, 2020, 09:07:13 PM

Ferguson presumably didn't follow his own advice when he was ######## his bit on the side despite predicting up to 500000 deaths if we all don't self isolate.
He broke his own advice. But how does that invalidate his work, may I ask?
Either he couldn't keep away and was prepared to die in order to see his mistress given his 500000 death number or he didn't think the risk was as great as he was leading the public to believe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 23, 2020, 10:20:24 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 23, 2020, 09:40:45 PM
Not sure of the exact details of Cummings actions but it raises an important question for all parents with children in the scenario where you both get sick and are unable to care for the children.
It's something my wife and I have discussed and we didnt really come up with a good solution as most of our back up care givers would be high risk and the children could well be asymptomatic carriers that could pass it on to them.

Yeah likewise.

Still Cummings should bite the dust.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 23, 2020, 10:47:34 PM
Today was the first day that China reported zero Covid19 cases.
Yeserday they conducted 1,470,950 tests in Wuhan.

Now they are probably using an  instant test that in't 100% accurate, but if we could get tthese tests then you could test everyone on  the island of Ireland in a week and get rid of the virus entirely in a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 23, 2020, 10:52:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 23, 2020, 09:43:55 PM
Quote from: five points on May 23, 2020, 08:12:29 PM
If I am gaslighting, then so is The Lancet.

QuoteIt has become clear that a hard lockdown does not protect old and frail people living in care homes—a population the lockdown was designed to protect. Neither does it decrease mortality from COVID-19, which is evident when comparing the UK's experience with that of other European countries
.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31035-7/fulltext#%20


That is an extremely poor article within the Lancet and I'm flabbergasted they published it.

Its little more than a puff piece (by a Swede) supporting the Swedish position.

Indeed, on a further 10 seconds reflection its outright f**king pathetic they allowed that to be published.

A "review" piece (it must be a review piece because it undertakes no study of its own) that presents 4 references.


I've binned papers that I thought unfit to see the light of day - and they would be 10 times better than that shite.


In October 2019, a major World Health Organisation report on pandemic flu risk arrived at the same conclusion.

Quote"There is a very low overall quality of evidence that internal travel restrictions (lockdowns) can reduce influenza transmission"
https://www.who.int/influenza/publications/public_health_measures/publication/en/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 11:38:59 PM
Quote from: five points on May 23, 2020, 09:22:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 08:59:58 PM


The Spanish Flu is not a precedent for how this virus behaves, it was a flu virus, not a coronavirus. And the Spanish Flu killed around 50-80 million people. Why are citing something that killed multiple times the amount that died in World War II as "precedent" for Covid if you think Covid is "not a problem"?

2002–2004 SARS  is another precedent.

QuoteYou're complaining about ad hominems after claiming that somebody should be in prison? Pull the other one.
No, I told you I won't be responding to them. No matter how hard you try.

SARS is not a precedent. SARS was suppressed completely, because its symptoms showed almost immmediately and were very serious with a very high mortality rate. There were only between 8k and 9k cases worldwide.

The chances of suppressing Covid without a vaccine, without millions of people dying from it, are pretty much non-existent.

There have been well over 5 million cases of Covid recorded worldwide and we all know it's a lot more widespread than that in reality.

Covid-19 transmits asymptomatically and many carriers never show any symptoms. It's a particularly sneaky bastard of a virus and really has no precedent at all.

I presume given you're howling for Ferguson to be imprisoned you'll be doing the same for Cummings.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 11:44:24 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on May 23, 2020, 10:06:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 09:09:03 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on May 23, 2020, 09:07:13 PM

Ferguson presumably didn't follow his own advice when he was ######## his bit on the side despite predicting up to 500000 deaths if we all don't self isolate.
He broke his own advice. But how does that invalidate his work, may I ask?
Either he couldn't keep away and was prepared to die in order to see his mistress given his 500000 death number or he didn't think the risk was as great as he was leading the public to believe.
You haven't explained how him breaking lockdown to visit his lover invalidates his work.

It showed a human fallibility and a selfishness on his part.

But that has no effect on the validity of his work.

It would appear you're not familiar with what conclusions his work came to. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 23, 2020, 11:59:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 11:38:59 PM


I presume given you're howling for Ferguson to be imprisoned you'll be doing the same for Cummings.

Expressing an opinion is not howling. I'm delighted mine has put a bee in your bonnet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on May 24, 2020, 12:03:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 11:44:24 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on May 23, 2020, 10:06:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 09:09:03 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on May 23, 2020, 09:07:13 PM

Ferguson presumably didn't follow his own advice when he was ######## his bit on the side despite predicting up to 500000 deaths if we all don't self isolate.
He broke his own advice. But how does that invalidate his work, may I ask?
Either he couldn't keep away and was prepared to die in order to see his mistress given his 500000 death number or he didn't think the risk was as great as he was leading the public to believe.
You haven't explained how him breaking lockdown to visit his lover invalidates his work.

It showed a human fallibility and a selfishness on his part.

But that has no effect on the validity of his work.

It would appear you're not familiar with what conclusions his work came to.
His model is just that, a model and like all models it is based on assumptions. Paddy Power probably could build a model to predict the winner of the 2023 AI but it will make lots if assumptions and lots of best guesses. Based on the different approaches of different countries the 500k prediction seems way off to me.

His personal conduct is relevant in this case as it directly contradicts his advice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 24, 2020, 12:10:54 AM
Quote from: five points on May 23, 2020, 11:59:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 11:38:59 PM


I presume given you're howling for Ferguson to be imprisoned you'll be doing the same for Cummings.

Expressing an opinion is not howling. I'm delighted mine has put a bee in your bonnet.
Callling for somebody to be put in prison for no reason is howling, alright. That's what Gemma O'Doherty and Donald Trump's mob do.

Measuring your opinions by how much they annoy other people is very childish indeed, and reflects very poorly on the worth of those opinions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 24, 2020, 12:20:09 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on May 24, 2020, 12:03:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 11:44:24 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on May 23, 2020, 10:06:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 09:09:03 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on May 23, 2020, 09:07:13 PM

Ferguson presumably didn't follow his own advice when he was ######## his bit on the side despite predicting up to 500000 deaths if we all don't self isolate.
He broke his own advice. But how does that invalidate his work, may I ask?
Either he couldn't keep away and was prepared to die in order to see his mistress given his 500000 death number or he didn't think the risk was as great as he was leading the public to believe.
You haven't explained how him breaking lockdown to visit his lover invalidates his work.

It showed a human fallibility and a selfishness on his part.

But that has no effect on the validity of his work.

It would appear you're not familiar with what conclusions his work came to.
His model is just that, a model and like all models it is based on assumptions. Paddy Power probably could build a model to predict the winner of the 2023 AI but it will make lots if assumptions and lots of best guesses. Based on the different approaches of different countries the 500k prediction seems way off to me.

His personal conduct is relevant in this case as it directly contradicts his advice.

Ferguson warned of the possible calamity that could unfold were no lockdown measures taken. Given that the UK has the highest death toll in Europe even with lockdown measures, his warning was prescient, even if it was only what any reasonable person could see.

An individual instance of selfish behaviour on his part is in no way relevant to the validity of his work.

It's an individual instance of selfish behaviour. And he paid the price for it.

Will Cummings pay the price for his multiple instances of selfish and dangerous behaviour?

He will in me hoop.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on May 24, 2020, 12:58:46 AM
It's absolute poetry!!!

Get the smarmy p***k out to f**k!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 24, 2020, 01:30:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 24, 2020, 12:20:09 AM
Ferguson warned of the possible calamity that could unfold were no lockdown measures taken. Given that the UK has the highest death toll in Europe even with lockdown measures, his warning was prescient, even if it was only what any reasonable person could see.

An individual instance of selfish behaviour on his part is in no way relevant to the validity of his work.

It's an individual instance of selfish behaviour. And he paid the price for it.

Will Cummings pay the price for his multiple instances of selfish and dangerous behaviour?

He will in me hoop.

If  you are a right wing commentator these two things are not the same at all, at all.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYuHPe8WoAAQ-ZT?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 24, 2020, 01:43:49 AM
Sure shite like that from O'Neill is as predictable as night following day. O'Neill is a literal fraud. There's no way he believes the shite he spouts, you'd have to be certifiable to do so. But he gets plenty of money from his "writing" and his frequent television appearances no doubt. And that's why he does what he does. He's a scam merchant, a performance con artist who preys on the gullible. One of the most shameless and most vile grifters I've ever seen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on May 24, 2020, 06:35:36 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 24, 2020, 12:20:09 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on May 24, 2020, 12:03:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 11:44:24 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on May 23, 2020, 10:06:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 23, 2020, 09:09:03 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on May 23, 2020, 09:07:13 PM

Ferguson presumably didn't follow his own advice when he was ######## his bit on the side despite predicting up to 500000 deaths if we all don't self isolate.
He broke his own advice. But how does that invalidate his work, may I ask?
Either he couldn't keep away and was prepared to die in order to see his mistress given his 500000 death number or he didn't think the risk was as great as he was leading the public to believe.
You haven't explained how him breaking lockdown to visit his lover invalidates his work.

It showed a human fallibility and a selfishness on his part.

But that has no effect on the validity of his work.

It would appear you're not familiar with what conclusions his work came to.
His model is just that, a model and like all models it is based on assumptions. Paddy Power probably could build a model to predict the winner of the 2023 AI but it will make lots if assumptions and lots of best guesses. Based on the different approaches of different countries the 500k prediction seems way off to me.

His personal conduct is relevant in this case as it directly contradicts his advice.

Ferguson warned of the possible calamity that could unfold were no lockdown measures taken. Given that the UK has the highest death toll in Europe even with lockdown measures, his warning was prescient, even if it was only what any reasonable person could see.

An individual instance of selfish behaviour on his part is in no way relevant to the validity of his work.

It's an individual instance of selfish behaviour. And he paid the price for it.

Will Cummings pay the price for his multiple instances of selfish and dangerous behaviour?

He will in me hoop.
It depends on how the story develops and how the public reacts.

In a Yougov poll yesterday 52% said he should resign, 28% said he shouldn't and 20% didn't  know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Denn Forever on May 24, 2020, 10:31:45 AM
 :DI first thought Sid was talking about our 'Neill :D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 24, 2020, 10:46:37 AM
Your man Shapps trying to defend Cummings makes you very angry
Saying he stayed in the one place with the one family whilst he moved up to his second home
Knew the exact dates he travelled up but low and behold he didn't know some other information
As corrupt a government as you are likely to ever see
Lying scumbags of the highest degree
Time for Cummings and every single one of his mates who came out in support of him yesterday to resign
Why should we stick to the rules and then they twist it to suit him. It was car crash tv at the highest degree
Scumbags the lot of them
Boris needs to go too. Theresa May would have handled things better and that's saying a lot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 24, 2020, 11:54:15 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 24, 2020, 06:35:36 AM
It depends on how the story develops and how the public reacts.

In a Yougov poll yesterday 52% said he should resign, 28% said he shouldn't and 20% didn't  know.
The Tories may well engineer a Hotel California style ceremonial "checking out" for Cummings. But he will not leave.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on May 24, 2020, 11:57:18 AM
I see on twitter the mirror have "new" witnesses who seen Cummings out and about despite his claims it didn't happen.

It looks like they've played it perfectly here. They put out part of the story giving Cummings the chance to come clean. Instead he lies and they put out the 2nd half of the story and they have him by the short and curlies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mouview on May 24, 2020, 12:27:35 PM
Hope he doesn't go. Divide the Tories more, show the British public what kind of shysters they have in charge. At this stage, it may damage them more if he were to stay.
Gone into No. 10 at time of writing, so we'll see....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 24, 2020, 12:47:16 PM
https://twitter.com/peterjukes/status/1264522634907340801

Peter Jukes
@peterjukes

Terrifying point by former Durham Police chief, Mike Barton, on BBC.  Given Cummings' travels from the hotspot of London in early April when Durham and surrounds had low COVID-19 rates, he cannot rule out being a carrier of the disease which then killed more in the North East
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 24, 2020, 01:00:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 24, 2020, 12:47:16 PM
https://twitter.com/peterjukes/status/1264522634907340801

Peter Jukes
@peterjukes

Terrifying point by former Durham Police chief, Mike Barton, on BBC.  Given Cummings' travels from the hotspot of London in early April when Durham and surrounds had low COVID-19 rates, he cannot rule out being a carrier of the disease which then killed more in the North East

Watched that interview, and he put the boot into Shapps about making the law up as he went along. Watching the Marr interview, not a clue, don't believe the papers, but the statement from No 10 he says
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 24, 2020, 01:27:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 23, 2020, 10:47:34 PM
Today was the first day that China reported zero Covid19 cases.
Yeserday they conducted 1,470,950 tests in Wuhan.

Now they are probably using an  instant test that in't 100% accurate, but if we could get tthese tests then you could test everyone on  the island of Ireland in a week and get rid of the virus entirely in a couple of weeks.

If you didn't already know, you really now should. The Governments don't care about us. Tests cost money, couldn't have that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 24, 2020, 01:53:36 PM
Question. So why no second wave in places like Denmark Austria C Republic Holland with all now below 50 infections a day and all now reopened 6 weeks tomorrow?
All them were waiting on the numbers to pick up but they have actually continued to go down?
Also the big second wave from everyone not sticking to the rules in England around the VE just hasn't happened.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 24, 2020, 04:13:30 PM
PM taking the daily briefing at 5pm, interesting! Will he back him or sack him??????
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 24, 2020, 04:50:59 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 24, 2020, 04:13:30 PM
PM taking the daily briefing at 5pm, interesting! Will he back him or sack him??????

Surely he won't sack him live on air. If it was to happen he'd be gone by now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 24, 2020, 04:51:44 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 24, 2020, 04:50:59 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 24, 2020, 04:13:30 PM
PM taking the daily briefing at 5pm, interesting! Will he back him or sack him??????

Surely he won't sack him live on air. If it was to happen he'd be gone by now.

Wouldn't mind a bet if I could get it he won't even mention it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 24, 2020, 04:53:36 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 24, 2020, 01:27:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 23, 2020, 10:47:34 PM
Today was the first day that China reported zero Covid19 cases.
Yeserday they conducted 1,470,950 tests in Wuhan.

Now they are probably using an  instant test that in't 100% accurate, but if we could get tthese tests then you could test everyone on  the island of Ireland in a week and get rid of the virus entirely in a couple of weeks.

If you didn't already know, you really now should. The Governments don't care about us. Tests cost money, couldn't have that.

Tests cost less money than having the economy closed down, so the Irish government at least would give this a go if there ests were available, in the 6 counties Arlene et al wouldn't agree unless the English did it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2020, 04:54:54 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 24, 2020, 04:51:44 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 24, 2020, 04:50:59 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 24, 2020, 04:13:30 PM
PM taking the daily briefing at 5pm, interesting! Will he back him or sack him??????

Surely he won't sack him live on air. If it was to happen he'd be gone by now.

Wouldn't mind a bet if I could get it he won't even mention it.

Has the government sacked people for breaking lockdown rules? If they have we should see a sacking, but they won't with this guy, who's effectively running the country
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 24, 2020, 05:00:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2020, 04:54:54 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 24, 2020, 04:51:44 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 24, 2020, 04:50:59 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 24, 2020, 04:13:30 PM
PM taking the daily briefing at 5pm, interesting! Will he back him or sack him??????

Surely he won't sack him live on air. If it was to happen he'd be gone by now.

Wouldn't mind a bet if I could get it he won't even mention it.

Has the government sacked people for breaking lockdown rules? If they have we should see a sacking, but they won't with this guy, who's effectively running the country

They might announce something to ease measures or something strange to redirect, would be in Boris Johnson and his teams bag of tricks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 24, 2020, 05:01:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 24, 2020, 04:53:36 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 24, 2020, 01:27:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 23, 2020, 10:47:34 PM
Today was the first day that China reported zero Covid19 cases.
Yeserday they conducted 1,470,950 tests in Wuhan.

Now they are probably using an  instant test that in't 100% accurate, but if we could get tthese tests then you could test everyone on  the island of Ireland in a week and get rid of the virus entirely in a couple of weeks.

If you didn't already know, you really now should. The Governments don't care about us. Tests cost money, couldn't have that.

Tests cost less money than having the economy closed down, so the Irish government at least would give this a go if there ests were available, in the 6 counties Arlene et al wouldn't agree unless the English did it.

If they wanted to do it, they would have. In both jurisdictions. As for lockdown, one size fits all. Everyone else was doing it.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2020, 05:06:45 PM
Wow! His face didn't take a red'ner! Crazy predictable stuff
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 24, 2020, 05:22:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2020, 05:06:45 PM
Wow! His face didn't take a red'ner! Crazy predictable stuff

My respect for him has went up, he's basically said do what you want lads. I've a serious majority, no creditable rival so quit your yapping.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 24, 2020, 05:24:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 24, 2020, 05:01:27 PM
[If they wanted to do it, they would have. In both jurisdictions. As for lockdown, one size fits all. Everyone else was doing it.....

I think you underestimate the challenges of such a large testing programme.
Lockdown has proven to be the way forward for a period, the question here is how to push on after that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on May 24, 2020, 05:35:18 PM
Car crash stuff this is totally ridiculous... does anyone know what's the best way to get these lying hoors out of power??

An election this week knocks the Tories out but we're not die one for 4 years. What can be done??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 24, 2020, 05:46:19 PM
The Tories are still 12 points clear in Opinion polls ffs, Britain Elects had one on Twitter today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on May 24, 2020, 06:19:01 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 24, 2020, 05:46:19 PM
The Tories are still 12 points clear in Opinion polls ffs, Britain Elects had one on Twitter today.

Wait until the end of this coming week!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 24, 2020, 06:21:30 PM
This week I believe is the lowest number of weekly deaths from the virus in ROI since March 23rd to 29th and the lowest weekly number of cases since March 9th to 15th.

The number of weekly cases in the next week or 2 shall be interesting as it should tell us if the lifting of some restrictions has brought an increase in cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 24, 2020, 06:40:55 PM
See the (deleted) Tweet from the official UK Civil Service account? :D

Arrogant & Offensive

Can you imagine having to work with this truth twisters?

Handclap emoji
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 24, 2020, 07:29:40 PM
Someone is looking for a new job lol.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 24, 2020, 09:11:20 PM
Quote from: five points on May 23, 2020, 10:52:56 PM
In October 2019, a major World Health Organisation report on pandemic flu risk arrived at the same conclusion.

Quote"There is a very low overall quality of evidence that internal travel restrictions (lockdowns) can reduce influenza transmission"
https://www.who.int/influenza/publications/public_health_measures/publication/en/

You are making the same mistake SAGE made in February.

This is not the flu. The same principles do not apply.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on May 24, 2020, 10:17:41 PM
What's the story with reducing social distancing from two metres to one?  WHO seem to be happy for this to be the case with most other countries taking it on board.  This would be a game changer for pubs and restaurants.  Is it best to leave it at two metres until later in the summer until further scientific evidence is sought?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 24, 2020, 10:25:46 PM
No the WHO guidelines are it's 1 metre and not 2
Most countries being cautious with 2 even though official WHO guidelines say 1
Baffling
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 24, 2020, 11:10:52 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 24, 2020, 10:25:46 PM
No the WHO guidelines are it's 1 metre and not 2
Most countries being cautious with 2 even though official WHO guidelines say 1
Baffling

Not really.

There is much uncertainty about how far a sneeze or cough spreads droplets. There is also uncertainty as to the viral load of CoV-2 required to trigger COVID.

IMO, the WHO guideline is quite insufficient.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 24, 2020, 11:12:25 PM
Quote from: mackers on May 24, 2020, 10:17:41 PM
What's the story with reducing social distancing from two metres to one?  WHO seem to be happy for this to be the case with most other countries taking it on board.  This would be a game changer for pubs and restaurants.  Is it best to leave it at two metres until later in the summer until further scientific evidence is sought?
who mentioned reducing it. Be no surprise if they do it, in work we have 160 desks but due to social distancing we can only use 32, odd but that's what we're told. We have people shielding and some working from home. The remaining are on a rota but more laptops arriving soon so be all back full time. With a reduction I would say we could get to 80-90 in work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 24, 2020, 11:46:34 PM
Radio the WHO guidelines are 1 m
Go and check on the official website
You either follow or not which is it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 25, 2020, 12:22:10 AM
https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/how-do-you-identify-a-murderer-if-there-are-no-clues-five-months-of-coronavirus-what-we-know-now-and-what-we-dont-39229525.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 25, 2020, 09:13:54 AM
Quote from: Square Ball on May 24, 2020, 11:12:25 PM
Quote from: mackers on May 24, 2020, 10:17:41 PM
What's the story with reducing social distancing from two metres to one?  WHO seem to be happy for this to be the case with most other countries taking it on board.  This would be a game changer for pubs and restaurants.  Is it best to leave it at two metres until later in the summer until further scientific evidence is sought?
who mentioned reducing it. Be no surprise if they do it, in work we have 160 desks but due to social distancing we can only use 32, odd but that's what we're told. We have people shielding and some working from home. The remaining are on a rota but more laptops arriving soon so be all back full time. With a reduction I would say we could get to 80-90 in work.

There's no way that companies will continue long term employing staff to work exclusively or almost exclusively from home. If you become invisible to your employer you'll slowly but surely become dispensable too.  It's always easier to mistreat someone if you don't have to look them in the eye.

And then there's this. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2020/05/21/facebook-pay-cuts-employees-could-have-reduced-salaries-if-they-move/5239532002/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 09:53:10 AM
WHO are saying 1m so why are we saying 2m?
Just don't get it?
To cautious in this country. The big waves that were expected never came
A massive wave at the beginning or April because of Cheltenham didn't come
The big wave because of Easter didn't come
The big wave on VHE didn't didn't come
Reopening things the big wave hasn't come
People not sticking to the rules many people saying second wave it hasn't come
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on May 25, 2020, 10:06:20 AM
WHO say at least 1 metre..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 25, 2020, 10:38:08 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 24, 2020, 11:46:34 PM
Radio the WHO guidelines are 1 m
Go and check on the official website
You either follow or not which is it?

I know they are.

I don't agree with it. I think the conclusion they have drawn is very wrong and there is a significant body of evidence against it.

Coughs and sneezes project far more than 1 metre.

I've even seen research suggesting up to 4 metres.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 25, 2020, 10:50:36 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 25, 2020, 10:38:08 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 24, 2020, 11:46:34 PM
Radio the WHO guidelines are 1 m
Go and check on the official website
You either follow or not which is it?

I know they are.

I don't agree with it. I think the conclusion they have drawn is very wrong and there is a significant body of evidence against it.

Coughs and sneezes project far more than 1 metre.

I've even seen research suggesting up to 4 metres.

Was just reading this.
https://www.edexlive.com/news/2020/may/23/study-shows-six-feet-social-distancing-may-not-be-enough-to-avoid-covid-19-spread-12203.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 25, 2020, 11:37:15 AM
How many in ICU in Ireland? I can recall reading a week ago it was at 60 which was down from 76 the week before.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 25, 2020, 11:42:04 AM
I heard 51 mentioned yesterday.
Around 500 in Hospital with the Virus.
There were around 3,200 hospitalised altogether.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 25, 2020, 12:18:47 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-uk-hospital-weston-super-mare-nhs-general-ae-patients-a9531116.html

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 12:26:22 PM
Taylor watch that one blow over very quick
Very quick
Just like the r number in Germany
No word of it now as it's at 0.5
Switzerland 0.3 and opened from April
Watch that story disappear very quick
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 25, 2020, 12:29:37 PM
Why would it good over very quickly?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 12:32:48 PM
Because it's a none story?
It's a precautionary measure because of the high number of Coronavirus patients
Precautionary
Why is this a story?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 25, 2020, 12:54:49 PM
Race against time to develop a vaccine before the virus disappears.

Seriously.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-disappearing-so-fast-oxford-vaccine-has-only-50-chance-of-working-11993739
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 25, 2020, 01:07:46 PM
Quote from: five points on May 25, 2020, 12:54:49 PM
Race against time to develop a vaccine before the virus disappears.

Seriously.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-disappearing-so-fast-oxford-vaccine-has-only-50-chance-of-working-11993739

I hope the virus disappears before any vaccine can be trialled!

Unfortunately, the odds are definitely against.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 25, 2020, 01:09:49 PM
"We're in the bizarre position of wanting COVID to stay, at least for a little while." is like saying "I wish polio hadn't been eradicated because we could have made money out of it."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 25, 2020, 01:10:13 PM
Meanwhile in the real World

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0525/1140413-covid-19/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 25, 2020, 01:19:05 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 12:26:22 PM
Taylor watch that one blow over very quick
Very quick
Just like the r number in Germany
No word of it now as it's at 0.5
Switzerland 0.3 and opened from April
Watch that story disappear very quick

Would you please stop posting numbers without links.

Even worse, would you please stop posting bullshit numbers without links.


Berlin. R0 = 1.37 https://www.thelocal.de/20200525/berlins-coronavirus-reproductive-number-is-rising-what-does-it-mean
Germany: R0 ~1 https://www.thelocal.de/20200525/latest-germany-continues-to-ease-coronavirus-restrictions-as-289-new-cases-reported
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 01:21:58 PM
Germany is below 1 stop making up crap
Basically what we are now saying is normal service needs to resume in hospitals
I'm saying that this few weeks
London r number 0.4
Let's concentrate on this island don't worry what's going on in Berlin or the likes
Ireland's r number is 0.5 that's all that matters
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 25, 2020, 01:40:23 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 01:21:58 PM
Germany is below 1 stop making up crap

Post up a link then. Otherwise you are just lying.


Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 01:21:58 PM
Basically what we are now saying is normal service needs to resume in hospitals

No. Prof Smurfy is saying that.



Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 01:21:58 PM
London r number 0.4

That was a week or more ago. I haven't seen an update on that since.


Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 01:21:58 PM
Ireland's r number is 0.5 that's all that matters

and long may it continue.

[which it won't if those that hold your opinion have their way]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 25, 2020, 01:42:32 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 01:21:58 PM
Germany is below 1 stop making up crap
Basically what we are now saying is normal service needs to resume in hospitals
I'm saying that this few weeks
London r number 0.4
Let's concentrate on this island don't worry what's going on in Berlin or the likes
Ireland's r number is 0.5 that's all that matters

Don't respond to a request for a source for your ramblings with more unsubstantiated rambling.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 25, 2020, 01:54:29 PM
Smurfy do you have an alternative internet to the rest of us?? You post these stats and I can never seem to find them and don't seem to be alone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on May 25, 2020, 01:54:38 PM
Cummings press conference should be interesting. . . the press knows he hates them I wonder will they be able to bait him into losing it! It reminds me of a West Wing episode where Josh had to do the briefing once and it was a car crash I can see something similar happening with this.

The whole thing is mad he shouldn't be making a statement they've handled the whole thing wrong from the start!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on May 25, 2020, 02:14:29 PM
Quote from: five points on May 25, 2020, 12:54:49 PM
Race against time to develop a vaccine before the virus disappears.

Seriously.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-disappearing-so-fast-oxford-vaccine-has-only-50-chance-of-working-11993739

A race against time. To make a shitload of money.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 25, 2020, 02:16:11 PM
Quote from: five points on May 25, 2020, 01:09:49 PM
"We're in the bizarre position of wanting COVID to stay, at least for a little while." is like saying "I wish polio hadn't been eradicated because we could have made money out of it."
You're impugning the motives of scientists now.

From Hannah Arendt in "The Origins of Totalitarianism":

"One of the greatest advantages of the totalitarian elites of the twenties and thirties was to turn any statement of fact into a question of motive."



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on May 25, 2020, 03:15:53 PM
I think most will stick with home drinking than going to that new pub experience.

(https://scontent.fdub5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/100634113_913002185790352_8862797317468585984_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=110474&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=wz-zTlJ2o3cAX87R8kB&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub5-1.fna&_nc_tp=14&oh=1cde119e8058053a3ac1432ce02b8530&oe=5EF02ABF)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 25, 2020, 03:37:10 PM
So of Cummings is going to take questions hard to see him resigning. A few Tory's saying that people will change their minds when they hear his side of the story which of course will be the truth. Interesting to see what Durham police find if they are going to investigate it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 25, 2020, 03:41:02 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on May 25, 2020, 02:14:29 PM
Quote from: five points on May 25, 2020, 12:54:49 PM
Race against time to develop a vaccine before the virus disappears.

Seriously.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-disappearing-so-fast-oxford-vaccine-has-only-50-chance-of-working-11993739

A race against time. To make a shitload of money.

Vaccines are not money makers, the tablets you take 3 times a day for life are.

The scientists do want to be well regarded in their own community and presumably wouldn't  turn down a trip to Buck Palace for a gong, but they will not get expecially rich from this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on May 25, 2020, 05:02:15 PM
I can see why he doesn't engage with the press . . . he needs to apologise and hasn't.

Yeah he's put a human side to it but I don't think it's done enough the journo's are tying him up in knots!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on May 25, 2020, 05:15:00 PM
Quote from: screenexile on May 25, 2020, 05:02:15 PM
I can see why he doesn't engage with the press . . . he needs to apologise and hasn't.

Yeah he's put a human side to it but I don't think it's done enough the journo's are tying him up in knots!!!

It's complete car crash stuff. I'm enjoying it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on May 25, 2020, 05:21:50 PM
Why did Cunmmings decide to take his wife and kid with him on the 30 minute trial drive to the Castle grounds?
That was not needed and just sounds like a contrived crock of lies to cover up for an outing with the family.

"However, his eyesight had been affected by his illness and so he went for a short drive to see if he could drive safely - to the town, Barnard Castle. He said they sat by the riverbank for 15 minutes, and they wished a passerby "Happy easter" while returning to the car.
They spent some time in the woods on the way home as his child needed the toilet - he said they saw some people at the distance, but did not break any social distancing rules. "
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Minder on May 25, 2020, 05:42:06 PM
I know it's big business in Twitter world but does anyone really give a shit about it ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 25, 2020, 05:45:43 PM
I do think that this time they do. Well I hope. It is just one lie after another. Surely at some stage it has to catch up with them? Surely?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 25, 2020, 05:51:54 PM
No deaths today from the virus in the ROI, 59 new cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 25, 2020, 06:09:01 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 25, 2020, 05:42:06 PM
I know it's big business in Twitter world but does anyone really give a shit about it ?

People are pissed off, it's a free hit. I don't really know the ins and outs of it but I do know he has an autistic child. I mean if your going to break rules, don't get caught....especially if you made them, but all things considered, he's more guilty of being foolish than anything overly terrible.

The amazing thing is Boris is universally hated by all now, but just months ago he smashed the Labour Party to pieces. He knows he's untouchable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 25, 2020, 06:14:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 24, 2020, 05:24:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 24, 2020, 05:01:27 PM
[If they wanted to do it, they would have. In both jurisdictions. As for lockdown, one size fits all. Everyone else was doing it.....

I think you underestimate the challenges of such a large testing programme.
Lockdown has proven to be the way forward for a period, the question here is how to push on after that.

Sorry, I agree it's a big undertaking. Of course. But the virus has been 'serious' since about Feb all over Europe, initial underestimations aside in whatever form, they gave it a bit of window dressing awhile ago there but, for a modern first world country to not be able to mobilise mass testing wasn't due to lack of capability, more lack of desire.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 06:16:34 PM
Cunny stop spreading good news!
Brilliant
Cummings interview was car crash stuff. Driving 30 minutes to test his eyesight holy fuk
Him and Johnstone had a conversation 6 weeks ago about him going but both forget
He forgets if he filled up the car. Now if you are coming home from a long journey that you are not used to taking you would always remember stopping somewhere to fill or grab a coffee
Some bull
Now let's get back to the real work and worry about Cummings when this is all over
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on May 25, 2020, 06:24:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 25, 2020, 05:42:06 PM
I know it's big business in Twitter world but does anyone really give a shit about it ?
How do you know it's big business on twitter world?
It's being reported all over the media live so obviously plenty of people give a shit.
You wouldn't know a story if it hit you with an uppercut.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 25, 2020, 06:35:46 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 25, 2020, 05:51:54 PM
No deaths today from the virus in the ROI, 59 new cases.

That's a huge stat I think. Hopefully it continues like this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 25, 2020, 07:02:45 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 25, 2020, 05:51:54 PM
No deaths today from the virus in the ROI, 59 new cases.

good news.

well done govt, health staff and most importantly general public.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on May 25, 2020, 07:06:51 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 25, 2020, 06:24:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 25, 2020, 05:42:06 PM
I know it's big business in Twitter world but does anyone really give a shit about it ?
How do you know it's big business on twitter world?
It's being reported all over the media live so obviously plenty of people give a shit.
You wouldn't know a story if it hit you with an uppercut.
I imagine you know as much about news stories and boxing as you do about the popularity of basketball.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 25, 2020, 07:59:14 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 25, 2020, 05:51:54 PM
No deaths today from the virus in the ROI, 59 new cases.

whereas NI has had 8 deaths and 39 cases. You may find NI lagging behind improvement, as it does in everything else.

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 25, 2020, 06:14:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 24, 2020, 05:24:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 24, 2020, 05:01:27 PM
[If they wanted to do it, they would have. In both jurisdictions. As for lockdown, one size fits all. Everyone else was doing it.....

I think you underestimate the challenges of such a large testing programme.
Lockdown has proven to be the way forward for a period, the question here is how to push on after that.

Sorry, I agree it's a big undertaking. Of course. But the virus has been 'serious' since about Feb all over Europe, initial underestimations aside in whatever form, they gave it a bit of window dressing awhile ago there but, for a modern first world country to not be able to mobilise mass testing wasn't due to lack of capability, more lack of desire.

I expect you are  talking about England, it isn't clear.
If you are talking about Ireland, the NI didn't do it because  England didn't do it and the ROI is above average in Europe for testing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Estimator on May 25, 2020, 08:27:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 25, 2020, 06:09:01 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 25, 2020, 05:42:06 PM
I know it's big business in Twitter world but does anyone really give a shit about it ?

People are pissed off, it's a free hit. I don't really know the ins and outs of it but I do know he has an autistic child. I mean if your going to break rules, don't get caught....especially if you made them, but all things considered, he's more guilty of being foolish than anything overly terrible.

The amazing thing is Boris is universally hated by all now, but just months ago he smashed the Labour Party to pieces. He knows he's untouchable.

Seen this mentioned on twitter a lot over the last few days, but cannot find any material sources regarding this. Is it just twitter journalism that has become truth?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Minder on May 25, 2020, 08:35:54 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 25, 2020, 06:24:45 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 25, 2020, 05:42:06 PM
I know it's big business in Twitter world but does anyone really give a shit about it ?
How do you know it's big business on twitter world?
It's being reported all over the media live so obviously plenty of people give a shit.
You wouldn't know a story if it hit you with an uppercut.

You are still a strange being
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 10:37:10 PM
It says a lot about the north and south governments that the south seem to have things  under control long before the north.
Some different what we hear from Harris and co from the south always giving updates feedback encouragement and all you get from the north here is negativity stay home save life's.
That's all you get from here
Harris and co take a bow
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 25, 2020, 10:39:02 PM
Any sign of those links to your R0 assertions Smurfy?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 10:55:27 PM
I've said before radio the numbers that matter to me are
A- Deaths 0 in south
B- ICU and dropping below 35 in south


Not the R number
Or cases
If someone picks up a flu they will generally be fine
Now I will continue to watch for those 2

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on May 25, 2020, 11:06:08 PM
Who in the name of God is "Eoin" on Claire Byrne show who thinks 3 in a row is fine,(same thing as two apparently) and HEPA filters in the airplane is all you need. Poorly challenged by Claire too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2020, 11:10:53 PM
Still in that competitive mode for some reason.

Making comments on we are do better than them is just strange?

Making comparisons between different countries during this pandemic shows what? I looked at countries with similar landmass and population, some doing far better than Ireland, what does it prove?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 11:19:01 PM
It proves the Irish government are better organised. Better at making decisions. Quicker at making decisions. That's what it tells me. Here in the North it's pure politics. Get the job done that you are elected to do. Will we close the schools or not. Yes one day no the next.
That's what making comparisons does
Yes the south are behind lots but the north followed the Tory crowd at the start
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2020, 11:23:14 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 11:19:01 PM
It proves the Irish government are better organised. Better at making decisions. Quicker at making decisions. That's what it tells me. Here in the North it's pure politics. Get the job done that you are elected to do. Will we close the schools or not. Yes one day no the next.
That's what making comparisons does
Yes the south are behind lots but the north followed the Tory crowd at the start

Right, so the south is better than the north of the island due to  better death rate, testing tracing and nursing homes

I'm sure those that lost love ones during this will draw some comfort from that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 25, 2020, 11:38:28 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 10:55:27 PM
I've said before radio the numbers that matter to me are
A- Deaths 0 in south
B- ICU and dropping below 35 in south


Not the R number
Or cases
If someone picks up a flu they will generally be fine
Now I will continue to watch for those 2

A & B are due to the ongoing lockdown in the south. Something you want to remove ASAP.


So no sign of your numbers from Germany then? A tacit admission that you are full of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 11:40:49 PM
But the south of Ireland locked down a day later then the north
Work that out?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2020, 11:48:55 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 11:40:49 PM
But the south of Ireland locked down a day later then the north
Work that out?

But sure to you lockdown was stupid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 11:53:05 PM
No i said it was to flatten the curve and save the nhs
The curve never happened and the nhs staff are bored
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2020, 11:56:07 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 11:53:05 PM
No i said it was to flatten the curve and save the nhs
The curve never happened and the nhs staff are bored

Bored? So the curve never happened and lockdown was pointless?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 25, 2020, 11:58:04 PM
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/341467148_Human_coronavirus_reinfection_dynamics_lessons_for_SARS-CoV-2

Ah crap.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 25, 2020, 11:59:07 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 25, 2020, 11:40:49 PM
But the south of Ireland locked down a day later then the north
Work that out?

But the south of Ireland locked down properly.

The North did a "ahh, now don't be leaving the house unless your a critical worker"... and proceeded to list half the workforce as critical.

edit: Should have known better to take a post of yours as even half right.

12th March, ROI starts lockdown[1][3][4].
23rd March, NI starts lockdown[2].


Everytime Smurfy... every f**king time. How about even try to get some of your f**king "facts" in order before posting them, is that too much to ask?


[1]https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0312/1121849-taoiseach-full-statement-coronavirus-ireland/
[2]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52012432
[3]https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0315/1123356-coronavirus-ireland/
[4]https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0324/1124966-cabinet-coronavirus/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 12:06:32 AM
Get your facts right.
The south of Ireland went into lockdown a day later
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 26, 2020, 12:11:03 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 12:06:32 AM
Get your facts right.
The south of Ireland went into lockdown a day later

So you thinking shutting down education and pubs is not part of a lockdown?


Ahh, I suppose your consistent, you are one of those that believe schools don't contribute to spread aren't you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 12:14:11 AM
Nobody mentioned pubs or schools
We are talking about lockdown here
The north lockdown happened before the south
You really need to get your facts right before posting
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2020, 12:29:45 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 12:14:11 AM
Nobody mentioned pubs or schools
We are talking about lockdown here
The north lockdown happened before the south
You really need to get your facts right before posting

Portugal closed pubs and schools on the 16th of March I think. Well over twice population of Ireland and did far better than Ireland. If we can compare countries did Portugal do better than Ireland?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 26, 2020, 12:51:50 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 12:14:11 AM
Nobody mentioned pubs or schools
We are talking about lockdown here
The north lockdown happened before the south
You really need to get your facts right before posting

All education was shut down in the south. Pubs were shut. People had to stay at home to look after their kids.


Yes, I suppose you are correct in that a literal legal lockdown was enacted one day later in the South, but all actions preceding that resulted in a virtual lockdown in the ROI weeks before NI - parents were not going to work because their children were not at school.


And you are standing there wondering why the ROI is ahead of NI?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 26, 2020, 07:07:27 AM
You need to get your facts straight before posting radiogaagaa ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on May 26, 2020, 08:41:12 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 25, 2020, 06:09:01 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 25, 2020, 05:42:06 PM
I know it's big business in Twitter world but does anyone really give a shit about it ?

People are pissed off, it's a free hit. I don't really know the ins and outs of it but I do know he has an autistic child. I mean if your going to break rules, don't get caught....especially if you made them, but all things considered, he's more guilty of being foolish than anything overly terrible.

The amazing thing is Boris is universally hated by all now, but just months ago he smashed the Labour Party to pieces. He knows he's untouchable.

Except he doesn't.  The tweet that started the whole autism thing was released from a far right account which has since been deleted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 08:58:41 AM
With all due respect to anyone sitting exams it's the deaths tat I worry about
And if you listened to any news outlets you willl be aware that the leadership of Peter Weir during this has been a shambles. Only last week he released his plans. 9 weeks it took him to release some info and that info was a phased return in August. Sweet Jesus my 3 year old could have done that. Let's be innovative Mr Weir
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 26, 2020, 09:40:31 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 26, 2020, 07:07:27 AM
You need to get your facts straight before posting radiogaagaa ;D

True true... I'll take a page out of Smurfs book...


I see R0 in Germany is now at 2 and the Danes are going to close their schools again.


[This posting up shite with no links is easy. I can make any old crap up.]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on May 26, 2020, 09:42:56 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 26, 2020, 09:18:17 AM
I take it there is a nailed down plan in place for school re-opening in the south?

Varadkar discussed that at his picnic in the Phoenix the other day  ;D working lunch.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 09:56:42 AM
The German r number isn't at 2
Take a look at the death and new case numbers
So you are saying Varadkar can't go for a picnic?
Well I'm unsure of the south's plan for return of schools but I'm pretty sure it will be better than a phased return in August September. A 3 year old could do that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 26, 2020, 09:57:26 AM
Quote from: Franko on May 26, 2020, 08:41:12 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 25, 2020, 06:09:01 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 25, 2020, 05:42:06 PM
I know it's big business in Twitter world but does anyone really give a shit about it ?

People are pissed off, it's a free hit. I don't really know the ins and outs of it but I do know he has an autistic child. I mean if your going to break rules, don't get caught....especially if you made them, but all things considered, he's more guilty of being foolish than anything overly terrible.

The amazing thing is Boris is universally hated by all now, but just months ago he smashed the Labour Party to pieces. He knows he's untouchable.

Except he doesn't.  The tweet that started the whole autism thing was released from a far right account which has since been deleted.

Well I mean it's kinda irrelevant anyway. All things being equal, no political slant. He made an error of judgement as a parent. I wouldn't be for throwing the man to the wolves over that. If there are further proven allegations, that's different obviously.

His attitude and lack of even faux remorse will eventually see his downfall anyway.

**Edit, just seen some Junior Minister resign over the situation, could change it if there is a domino effect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 26, 2020, 10:12:30 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 26, 2020, 09:57:26 AMHe made an error of judgement as a parent. I wouldn't be for throwing the man to the wolves over that.

Nah, sorry, not having that.

If it were Dominic Pleb and the wife & child who made the same journey, he'd be happy enough seeing them prosecuted.

People the length of the country were facing those difficult decisions, indeed, some facing far more difficult decisions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 26, 2020, 10:20:05 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 26, 2020, 10:12:30 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 26, 2020, 09:57:26 AMHe made an error of judgement as a parent. I wouldn't be for throwing the man to the wolves over that.

Nah, sorry, not having that.

If it were Dominic Pleb and the wife & child who made the same journey, he'd be happy enough seeing them prosecuted.

People the length of the country were facing those difficult decisions, indeed, some facing far more difficult decisions.

No argument really, it's up to each person what they think of it. Just my own opinion, he's been caught doing what he shouldn't have. Is it a sack-able error (the one trip, under the explained circumstances)? Not for me, considering what we've seen other politicians do and get away with, but I can see why others would be of a differing opinion at the same time too.

Boris is fairly untouchable, he doesn't want him to go so I don't really see him going personally. But there is no doubt, anymore leaks or revelations he's in trouble.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 26, 2020, 10:37:10 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 12:06:32 AM
Get your facts right.
The south of Ireland went into lockdown a day later

Five days later. Saturday 28 March.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 26, 2020, 11:11:40 AM
Quote from: Estimator on May 25, 2020, 08:27:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 25, 2020, 06:09:01 PM
Quote from: Minder on May 25, 2020, 05:42:06 PM
I know it's big business in Twitter world but does anyone really give a shit about it ?

People are pissed off, it's a free hit. I don't really know the ins and outs of it but I do know he has an autistic child. I mean if your going to break rules, don't get caught....especially if you made them, but all things considered, he's more guilty of being foolish than anything overly terrible.

The amazing thing is Boris is universally hated by all now, but just months ago he smashed the Labour Party to pieces. He knows he's untouchable.

Seen this mentioned on twitter a lot over the last few days, but cannot find any material sources regarding this. Is it just twitter journalism that has become truth?
Maybe the "autistic child" is a reference to Boris Johnson?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 26, 2020, 11:21:58 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 26, 2020, 09:18:17 AM
I take it there is a nailed down plan in place for school re-opening in the south?

reintroduce the scoil chois claí.
(http://www.askaboutireland.ie/_internal/gxml!0/2ocqn930ubywvi8z0wl9dhefnm6z926$8m7n1qoh6dg1ugtyahgilpzrnxfzc19)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on May 26, 2020, 11:38:12 AM
Ireland are 11th in the list of deaths per million, don't think there should be any back slapping.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2020, 11:43:36 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 26, 2020, 11:38:12 AM
Ireland are 11th in the list of deaths per million, don't think there should be any back slapping.

In this morbid competition it's better to be doing better than the north of the island though
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 26, 2020, 11:48:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2020, 11:43:36 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 26, 2020, 11:38:12 AM
Ireland are 11th in the list of deaths per million, don't think there should be any back slapping.

In this morbid competition it's better to be doing better than the north of the island though

Comparing with the sick counties is like saying you have a better football team than Antrim, it may be true but exceeding such a modest target should not be a justification for self-congratulation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 12:06:55 PM
Hardstation the South put that plan out 5 weeks ago. Robbie Swan let them know here on Friday. No plan just a press conference
Anyway you are right no need to compare anymore
Interesting statement from WHO that a second wave is looking increasing unlikely
Nothing to suggest anywhere that it will happen
On another note thon Michael Gove is a slippery git
Hope we can all agree on that one
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 26, 2020, 12:26:40 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 26, 2020, 11:38:12 AM
Ireland are 11th in the list of deaths per million, don't think there should be any back slapping.
No one's back slapping just glad it's eased and hopefully will fade away...
List of "deaths per million" I saw had Sweden, who were being touted by some here, 2nd highest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 26, 2020, 12:27:00 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 12:06:55 PM
Hardstation the South put that plan out 5 weeks ago. Robbie Swan let them know here on Friday. No plan just a press conference
Anyway you are right no need to compare anymore
Interesting statement from WHO that a second wave is looking increasing unlikely
Nothing to suggest anywhere that it will happen
On another note thon Michael Gove is a slippery git
Hope we can all agree on that one

That we can agree on - horrible man.

However at least since the pandemic he seems to be able to string coherent sentences together.........wonder what he isnt able to purchase now what he did before ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 26, 2020, 12:50:48 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 12:06:55 PM
Hardstation the South put that plan out 5 weeks ago. Robbie Swan let them know here on Friday. No plan just a press conference
Anyway you are right no need to compare anymore
Interesting statement from WHO that a second wave is looking increasing unlikely
Nothing to suggest anywhere that it will happen
On another note thon Michael Gove is a slippery git
Hope we can all agree on that one

Smurfy, where did you read this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 26, 2020, 12:51:06 PM
Seems to be some insatiable desire in southern twitter world to talk about Sweden and other countries all the time. Tbh I think people are more interested in making Varadkar look bad than they are worried about real impact on peoples lives. I think this could be end of me on twitter, just full of tool bags
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 26, 2020, 12:55:37 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 26, 2020, 12:51:06 PM
Seems to be some insatiable desire in southern twitter world to talk about Sweden and other countries all the time. Tbh I think people are more interested in making Varadkar look bad than they are worried about real impact on peoples lives. I think this could be end of me on twitter, just full of tool bags

What you perceive on twitter is largely a function of who you follow.
But you are correct, there are a lot of people who seem to think this is abstract point to argue and that thousands of people dying, or not dying, is not relevant.

The Swedish figures were not too much more than here, but they have now pulled ahead in the last week. When the lockdown is eased we will be much like Sweden but with many fewer deaths each week. Now Sweden may believe that in the long run we will catch up but better testing and better treatments may hold the fort until a vaccine arrives. 

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 26, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Re Cummings it seems the term Barney Castle is used as local slang for pathethic excuse
(https://i0.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/non-68d4.jpg)

https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/26/barnard-castle-means-pathetic-excuse-durham-dialect-12757215

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 26, 2020, 01:44:52 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 26, 2020, 10:12:30 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 26, 2020, 09:57:26 AMHe made an error of judgement as a parent. I wouldn't be for throwing the man to the wolves over that.

Nah, sorry, not having that.

If it were Dominic Pleb and the wife & child who made the same journey, he'd be happy enough seeing them prosecuted.

People the length of the country were facing those difficult decisions, indeed, some facing far more difficult decisions.

Being a parent had fúck all to do with his decisions, it was his wife's birthday the day he drove to the Castle and inbetween him being at deaths door according to an article his wife wrote about that time period.

Image being so sick that you're eyesight was a bit ropey you'd plop your 4yo kid and wife in the car and go for a drive to see if you were OK.

Only a moron buys that one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on May 26, 2020, 01:59:00 PM
The simplest explanation, Cummings had to go into quarantine with his family and decided to get out of dodge and travel up north.

The palatable truth in a few words, the spinning of the lie took forever, fabrication from start to finish. As somebody quipped, about as convincing as Dick Van Dyke's cockney accent in Mary Poppins.  I think his throat dried up after 5 seconds and when he had to leave the script to answer questions, he made all these strange grumblings while trying to find the script in his head.

However, Tripadvisor have rumbled Cummings, all his reviews of his family's experience at Barnard Castle on the occasion of his wife's birthday, have been deemed false and removed.
Message from Tripadvisor: Due to a recent event that has attracted media attention and has caused an influx of review submissions that do not describe a first-hand experience, we have temporarily suspended publishing new reviews for this listing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 26, 2020, 02:23:04 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 26, 2020, 01:59:00 PM
The simplest explanation, Cummings had to go into quarantine with his family and decided to get out of dodge and travel up north.

The palatable truth in a few words, the spinning of the lie took forever, fabrication from start to finish. As somebody quipped, about as convincing as Dick Van Dyke's cockney accent in Mary Poppins.  I think his throat dried up after 5 seconds and when he had to leave the script to answer questions, he made all these strange grumblings while trying to find the script in his head.

However, Tripadvisor have rumbled Cummings, all his reviews of his family's experience at Barnard Castle on the occasion of his wife's birthday, have been deemed false and removed.
Message from Tripadvisor: Due to a recent event that has attracted media attention and has caused an influx of review submissions that do not describe a first-hand experience, we have temporarily suspended publishing new reviews for this listing.


Except he travelled back down to London half way through and went back up for his wifes birthday.

He's a lying hoor, no shocker there and the British people will get over it, but what I find interesting is how reliant Boris and the cabinet are on him.
Boris is a lazy good for nothing, not into detail and relies on Cummins to do the spade work for him. Cummins is pulling the strings it seems and the verbal gymnastics the likes of Gove were getting into this morning beggars belief.

They've no backbone at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 26, 2020, 02:28:29 PM
No CV-19 deaths reported in NI today.

That's a positive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 26, 2020, 02:32:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 26, 2020, 02:28:29 PM
No CV-19 deaths reported in NI today.

That's a positive.

It's brilliant news.

If this continues, low numbers for a few days....a week.....There might just be a summer yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on May 26, 2020, 02:40:04 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 26, 2020, 02:23:04 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 26, 2020, 01:59:00 PM
The simplest explanation, Cummings had to go into quarantine with his family and decided to get out of dodge and travel up north.

The palatable truth in a few words, the spinning of the lie took forever, fabrication from start to finish. As somebody quipped, about as convincing as Dick Van Dyke's cockney accent in Mary Poppins.  I think his throat dried up after 5 seconds and when he had to leave the script to answer questions, he made all these strange grumblings while trying to find the script in his head.

However, Tripadvisor have rumbled Cummings, all his reviews of his family's experience at Barnard Castle on the occasion of his wife's birthday, have been deemed false and removed.
Message from Tripadvisor: Due to a recent event that has attracted media attention and has caused an influx of review submissions that do not describe a first-hand experience, we have temporarily suspended publishing new reviews for this listing.


Except he travelled back down to London half way through and went back up for his wifes birthday.

He's a lying hoor, no shocker there and the British people will get over it, but what I find interesting is how reliant Boris and the cabinet are on him.
Boris is a lazy good for nothing, not into detail and relies on Cummins to do the spade work for him. Cummins is pulling the strings it seems and the verbal gymnastics the likes of Gove were getting into this morning beggars belief.

They've no backbone at all.
Seeing as Johnson is about 10 times removed the lives of the 'ordinary' people,  Cummings is his porthole to the slogan politics that the ordinary decent bigot can connect to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 26, 2020, 02:45:06 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 26, 2020, 02:40:04 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 26, 2020, 02:23:04 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 26, 2020, 01:59:00 PM
The simplest explanation, Cummings had to go into quarantine with his family and decided to get out of dodge and travel up north.

The palatable truth in a few words, the spinning of the lie took forever, fabrication from start to finish. As somebody quipped, about as convincing as Dick Van Dyke's cockney accent in Mary Poppins.  I think his throat dried up after 5 seconds and when he had to leave the script to answer questions, he made all these strange grumblings while trying to find the script in his head.

However, Tripadvisor have rumbled Cummings, all his reviews of his family's experience at Barnard Castle on the occasion of his wife's birthday, have been deemed false and removed.
Message from Tripadvisor: Due to a recent event that has attracted media attention and has caused an influx of review submissions that do not describe a first-hand experience, we have temporarily suspended publishing new reviews for this listing.


Except he travelled back down to London half way through and went back up for his wifes birthday.

He's a lying hoor, no shocker there and the British people will get over it, but what I find interesting is how reliant Boris and the cabinet are on him.
Boris is a lazy good for nothing, not into detail and relies on Cummins to do the spade work for him. Cummins is pulling the strings it seems and the verbal gymnastics the likes of Gove were getting into this morning beggars belief.

They've no backbone at all.
Seeing as Johnson is about 10 times removed the lives of the 'ordinary' people,  Cummings is his porthole to the slogan politics that the ordinary decent bigot can connect to.

Not much point complaining about Boris or Cummings.

They were voted in by a landslide, they have a free run at Government.

I wonder do the people who voted them in, now regret that. Would Corbyn have handled this unforeseen mess any better?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 26, 2020, 02:52:37 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 26, 2020, 02:23:04 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 26, 2020, 01:59:00 PM
The simplest explanation, Cummings had to go into quarantine with his family and decided to get out of dodge and travel up north.

The palatable truth in a few words, the spinning of the lie took forever, fabrication from start to finish. As somebody quipped, about as convincing as Dick Van Dyke's cockney accent in Mary Poppins.  I think his throat dried up after 5 seconds and when he had to leave the script to answer questions, he made all these strange grumblings while trying to find the script in his head.

However, Tripadvisor have rumbled Cummings, all his reviews of his family's experience at Barnard Castle on the occasion of his wife's birthday, have been deemed false and removed.
Message from Tripadvisor: Due to a recent event that has attracted media attention and has caused an influx of review submissions that do not describe a first-hand experience, we have temporarily suspended publishing new reviews for this listing.


Except he travelled back down to London half way through and went back up for his wifes birthday.

He's a lying hoor, no shocker there and the British people will get over it, but what I find interesting is how reliant Boris and the cabinet are on him.
Boris is a lazy good for nothing, not into detail and relies on Cummins to do the spade work for him. Cummins is pulling the strings it seems and the verbal gymnastics the likes of Gove were getting into this morning beggars belief.

They've no backbone at all.

I dont think he did johnny.

Once he came back to London he didnt return?

The biggest issue is the trip to the Castle, the stopping off and going for a walk etc.

Maybe not a popular opinion but I dont think its such a big deal he went to a separate property in Durham with no contact with anyone else
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 02:56:44 PM
Brilliant news no new deaths today let's keep this going
It sure does give everyone a boost hearing stats like that and a lower number of cases. Hope it's not the bank holiday lag.
Great news
I like the look of that new labour leader. I like the way he ties his opposition up in bits in those PMQ. Although that shouldn't be hard to do
Well done the people of N Ireland. Keep it up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 03:15:31 PM
No keep in the 2 M social distancing when you are out
Keep washing your hands
Keep coughing into your elbow
That's what we need to keep going
You must be one of those ones on furlong Hardstation?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on May 26, 2020, 03:15:46 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 26, 2020, 12:50:48 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 12:06:55 PM
Hardstation the South put that plan out 5 weeks ago. Robbie Swan let them know here on Friday. No plan just a press conference
Anyway you are right no need to compare anymore
Interesting statement from WHO that a second wave is looking increasing unlikely
Nothing to suggest anywhere that it will happen
On another note thon Michael Gove is a slippery git
Hope we can all agree on that one

Smurfy, where did you read this?

I'm guessing it's to do with this, where a WHO guy talked about a second peak rather than a second wave being the more immediate problem.  https://nypost.com/2020/05/26/who-warns-of-immediate-second-peak-of-coronavirus/ (https://nypost.com/2020/05/26/who-warns-of-immediate-second-peak-of-coronavirus/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on May 26, 2020, 03:32:21 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 26, 2020, 11:38:12 AM
Ireland are 11th in the list of deaths per million, don't think there should be any back slapping.

Those lists are fairly pointless especially when many other countries aren't including every Covid-19 death and don't include possible deaths like the Republic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: toby47 on May 26, 2020, 04:17:49 PM
Does it look like house prices will fall at all over the next few months due to the coronavirus pandemic?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 26, 2020, 04:26:22 PM
Quote from: toby47 on May 26, 2020, 04:17:49 PM
Does it look like house prices will fall at all over the next few months due to the coronavirus pandemic?

Initially I thought they would but given the cost of borrowing is set to remain low I think they may drop 1-2% if not hold their value.

The issue will be the people doing the buying wont be first time buyers but more property developers who have the cash.

Many first time buyers may not have wont have secure jobs which will mean mortgage companies will be asking for higher deposits.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 26, 2020, 05:27:43 PM
No deaths reported here (up north) today at all. That is good progress too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 26, 2020, 05:41:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 26, 2020, 05:27:43 PM
No deaths reported here (up north) today at all. That is good progress too.

Still a shed load of cases in England. The UK figure today is 4000 cases, which is about the same as rest of Western Europe put together. So far 14% of cases have died, now this will be greatly reduced because they are doing more testing, but even if it was the same death rate as Germany that number of cases will mean significant deaths in 2 or 3 weeks time.

37 cases in ROI, things going in the right direction, especially as anyone can get a test now without difficulty.  So the UK today has 8 times the number of new cases as ROI and likely more given the state of testing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 26, 2020, 06:18:12 PM
Yeah I am only talking about up here. I think all things considered this island hasn't done too bad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 06:35:57 PM
37 new cases in the South is great news
That's the lowest since mid March
We are moving in the right direction
60 odd new cases and 9 deaths on this island
Every death is terrible but we are definitely moving in the right direction
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 26, 2020, 07:12:08 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/3FNG00q/Screenshot-20200526-190944-2.png) (https://ibb.co/bvBqrrZ)

Family holidays later this summer in Sligo anyone?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 26, 2020, 07:37:03 PM
I have a cousin with a wife and baby who escaped London to Sligo when the outbreak began. I'm glad he did.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2020, 08:06:42 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 03:15:31 PM
No keep in the 2 M social distancing when you are out
Keep washing your hands
Keep coughing into your elbow
That's what we need to keep going
You must be one of those ones on furlong Hardstation?

You must be raging at no deaths in the north
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 08:49:10 PM
No why would I?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2020, 09:32:36 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 08:49:10 PM
No why would I?

Ask you before,  during your comparisons stage, Portugal doing better than the south, how come Ireland so far behind?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 09:49:05 PM
I don't get you milltown? Why would I be happy?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2020, 10:17:45 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 09:49:05 PM
I don't get you milltown? Why would I be happy?

I said you will be raging
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on May 26, 2020, 10:49:24 PM
At what point is there the possibility of a complete return to normal not the "new normal "?

I've asked this a few time's now in conversation and yet to receive any decent feedback other than "oh that might never happen for many years "

Hypothetical scenario, absolutely no cases by next November for a sustained period of time , let's say three weeks , would that suffice ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 10:49:24 PM
Why?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2020, 11:23:33 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 10:49:24 PM
Why?

Because you thought the north was doing poorly and it not. And trying to compare different countries is pointless but you keep at it, in a weird way.

so when the north got no deaths I thought you'd be raging as it's no different than the south!

Now answer my question, why has Ireland done so poorly compared to other countries?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 26, 2020, 11:35:31 PM
Why
Because airport should have been shut like NZ
Track and Trace from the off like SK
Close the borders
Do that for 3 weeks you said a lot of lives and money
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 27, 2020, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on May 26, 2020, 10:49:24 PM
At what point is there the possibility of a complete return to normal not the "new normal "?

I've asked this a few time's now in conversation and yet to receive any decent feedback other than "oh that might never happen for many years "

Hypothetical scenario, absolutely no cases by next November for a sustained period of time , let's say three weeks , would that suffice ?
That's the scenario we want to get to.

That's the question we want to be able to ask.

Which is why what happens over the next few weeks and months is crucial.

But we can't ask that question yet, because we aren't in that situation.

And if we do what the likes of Colm O'Rourke want, we're unlikely to any time soon get to the scenario where we can  reasonably can ask that question.

The Foot and Mouth outbreak in UK started around February 2001. The final case was on September 30th. The numbers now are going in the right direction. If we keep up that direction of travel, we might just be able to start asking this question by September 30th or thereabouts. But that's always subject to change.

When you're given antibiotics, there's a reason you're told to complete the course, not abandon it when you start to see an improvement.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 27, 2020, 10:24:59 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on May 26, 2020, 10:49:24 PM
At what point is there the possibility of a complete return to normal not the "new normal "?

I've asked this a few time's now in conversation and yet to receive any decent feedback other than "oh that might never happen for many years "

Hypothetical scenario, absolutely no cases by next November for a sustained period of time , let's say three weeks , would that suffice ?

3 weeks with no cases[1] and it would be politically unsustainable not to return to normal.

In terms of virology, it's a bit more hairy. Gestation period of this is usually <14 days[2].

You could have asymptomatic cases running around, so you'd ideally want to give them 3 chains of transmission - whats the chances of 3 asymptomatic carriers in a row without hitting anyone with symptoms?

But that would be 6 weeks with no cases. Hard sell.


[1]Defining no cases as no-one with symptoms. If there were mass testing kits available (i.e. that litmus paper one[3]), then either the entire population or big sections of it could be tested - so "no cases" may take on a different meaning as it's possible to prove negatives among the general population.
[2]https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-0504
[3]https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2020/Q1/paper-device-could-bring-portable-coronavirus-detection,-but-funding-bars-production.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on May 27, 2020, 02:20:04 PM
Coronavirus: Why did Dominic Cummings say he predicted it?

QuoteThe internet archive Wayback Machine, which tracks the changing versions of publicly available websites, shows that the blog was edited some time between 9 April and 3 May this year (after the pandemic started) to insert the reference to coronavirus and Chinese labs. This was first pointed out by a data scientist Jens Wiechers on social media, and can be seen here.

It is in the form of a new quote from an article already linked to in the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists. It was not in the original blog.

And the sitemap of Mr Cumming's blog corroborates this, showing that this post was indeed edited at 20:55:20 on the evening of 14 April this year, still available here. This happens to be the day Mr Cummings returned to work from his Durham trip.

It is a mystery why he felt the need to burnish his credentials as a coronavirus sage so much that he pointed to having explicitly warned about something that was only added to his blog after the event.

There is no other reference to coronavirus or Sars or Mers on his blog. There is a page on the mathematics of pandemic modelling and "herd immunity" in a long essay written on the education system in 2013, but no references to coronaviruses.

It is difficult to see why editing a year-old personal blog would have been on any list of priorities for any No 10 official on a day like that - in the middle of the period where hospital deaths had peaked the previous week, but care home deaths were still mounting.

But Mr Cummings clearly felt the need on Monday to point to examples of prescience on this specific issue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52808059

Full house of sociopathy and egomania. How is this guy not just an actual politician?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 27, 2020, 03:22:59 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on May 27, 2020, 02:20:04 PM
Coronavirus: Why did Dominic Cummings say he predicted it?

QuoteThe internet archive Wayback Machine, which tracks the changing versions of publicly available websites, shows that the blog was edited some time between 9 April and 3 May this year (after the pandemic started) to insert the reference to coronavirus and Chinese labs. This was first pointed out by a data scientist Jens Wiechers on social media, and can be seen here.

It is in the form of a new quote from an article already linked to in the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists. It was not in the original blog.

And the sitemap of Mr Cumming's blog corroborates this, showing that this post was indeed edited at 20:55:20 on the evening of 14 April this year, still available here. This happens to be the day Mr Cummings returned to work from his Durham trip.

It is a mystery why he felt the need to burnish his credentials as a coronavirus sage so much that he pointed to having explicitly warned about something that was only added to his blog after the event.

There is no other reference to coronavirus or Sars or Mers on his blog. There is a page on the mathematics of pandemic modelling and "herd immunity" in a long essay written on the education system in 2013, but no references to coronaviruses.

It is difficult to see why editing a year-old personal blog would have been on any list of priorities for any No 10 official on a day like that - in the middle of the period where hospital deaths had peaked the previous week, but care home deaths were still mounting.

But Mr Cummings clearly felt the need on Monday to point to examples of prescience on this specific issue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52808059

Full house of sociopathy and egomania. How is this guy not just an actual politician?

He can't mask his abject lack of empathy or any other emotion as well as some of the other gobshites doing the media rounds at the minute trying to defend the indefensible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 27, 2020, 03:42:28 PM
https://fullfact.org/health/sgarbi-coronavirus/

Not sure if this site has been posted up before, but another useful tool none the less.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 27, 2020, 03:56:15 PM
 ;D


@DMuircheartaigh
· 1h
@DublinAirport What's going on here? Approaching 4 hours now?

https://twitter.com/DublinAirport/status/1265641616787767302

@DublinAirport

Apparently, the pilot is testing his eyesight just to make sure he'll be ok for a transatlantic flight in a day or two. Sorry, that's obviously not the case. It's collecting information for a mapping software company.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 27, 2020, 04:11:10 PM
Not so bad so far since 18th May relaxation.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/harris-covid-19-reproduction-rate-between-04-and-05-after-restrictions-lift-1002001.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on May 27, 2020, 04:12:55 PM
Beginning to think that Smurfy is another one of Trailer's accounts. The similarity of their deludedness is uncanny.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 27, 2020, 04:40:37 PM
Think what you want give
Great news Ross
Need to keep it going
0.4 brilliant. It's actually going down it really doesn't make sense
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 27, 2020, 04:56:34 PM
https://www.facebook.com/233111003425317/posts/3029307967138926/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 27, 2020, 05:12:30 PM
Nothing new
T R more a less saying nothing
Underwhelming to say the least
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 27, 2020, 05:57:47 PM
Perhaps there's nothing to say as nothing is happening?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on May 27, 2020, 07:48:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 27, 2020, 05:57:47 PM
Perhaps there's nothing to say as nothing is happening?

Exactly. Just keep doing what we are doing.

This bank holiday weekend will be interesting, especially with the fine weather predicted. I see the guards will be focusing on beaches and popular tourist spots over the weekend and with good reason.  Could easily see packed beaches as a growing minority (including some of our politicans) seem to think the lockdown is over now and everything should go back to the way it was.

Alan Kelly for me has been an embarrassment with his demands to end lockdown restrictions since he took over as Labour leader. Pure populism and shows how desperate the party are to try and make themselves relevant again as a political party.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 27, 2020, 08:18:29 PM
US is going to pass 100K deaths today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: pbat on May 27, 2020, 08:24:42 PM
Driving along the canal in Dublin this evening at 17.00 it was party time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 27, 2020, 08:32:35 PM
Alan Kelly seems to be spouting contrarian stuff just to get a media profile and to outshine the SDP joint leaders who are poor speakers and get perceived as real leader of the opposition.
Martin starting to do similar now.
Can't ge wait till he's Taoiseach and raise the issues with NPHET?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 27, 2020, 10:48:32 PM
Emily Maitlis has been removed from presenting tonight's edition of Newsnight by the BBC, simply for stating, correctly, that Dominic Cummings broke the lockdown rules.

This seems to be the way things are inexorably going under this Tory government, alright.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on May 28, 2020, 07:01:15 AM
Very interesting article


https://www.ft.com/content/121c2f30-9f69-11ea-ba68-3d5500196c30

A more informative factor than R is the "dispersion parameter", known as k, which captures how evenly a disease spreads. The higher k is, the more uniform the transmission. The lower k is, the more clustering there is

"The consistent pattern is that the most common number is zero," professor Jamie Lloyd-Smith, from the University of California, Los Angeles, told the journal Science. "Most people do not transmit."

Knowing that Covid-19 cases spread unevenly is a mixed blessing for the many countries, including the UK, which are still finalising their track and trace systems. 

They can focus on catching the relatively few events that spread the pandemic coronavirus explosively.
But it also means surveillance systems need to be comprehensive, quick and watertight

"If the pathogen is to be contained, then the analysis of its spread needs to be more granular than simply measuring R, the reproduction number. R is the average number of people a carrier passes the disease to, but is just that: an average."

Good news for lockdown possibly but bad news for matches

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 28, 2020, 10:14:44 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 28, 2020, 07:01:15 AM
Good news for lockdown possibly but bad news for matches

Certainly not good news for spectators, as any sort of shouting or singing projects the virus and causes transmission.

There is now a huge amount of research on modes of transmission and the effectiveness of measures which hopefully will allow the fine tuning of measures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 28, 2020, 10:15:29 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 28, 2020, 07:01:15 AM
"If the pathogen is to be contained, then the analysis of its spread needs to be more granular than simply measuring R, the reproduction number. R is the average number of people a carrier passes the disease to, but is just that: an average."

That is why you have track and trace!

Of course, the farseeing UK govt decided to ditch all that and sacrifice older folks to put up a facade of the NHS not failing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 28, 2020, 10:16:13 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 28, 2020, 10:14:44 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 28, 2020, 07:01:15 AM
Good news for lockdown possibly but bad news for matches

Certainly not good news for spectators, as any sort of shouting or singing projects the virus and causes transmission.

There is now a huge amount of research on modes of transmission and the effectiveness of measures which hopefully will allow the fine tuning of measures.

That body of research is also probably not good news for jogging around football pitches either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on May 28, 2020, 10:22:55 AM
Irish economy to contract by 12%, ESRI forecasts

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/irish-economy-to-contract-by-12-esri-forecasts-1.4264165
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 28, 2020, 11:29:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 27, 2020, 10:48:32 PM
Emily Maitlis has been removed from presenting tonight's edition of Newsnight by the BBC, simply for stating, correctly, that Dominic Cummings broke the lockdown rules.

This seems to be the way things are inexorably going under this Tory government, alright.

BBC have been in the pocket of the Torys since Dave Cameron put a load of mates in high ranking positions when he was PM.

Maitlis and a few others, mostly females kinda row against their editorial line and get their wings clipped every once in a while.

Yet another car crash by Boris yesterday in front of a commons select committee, even the Torys on it were cutting holes in him, but he's still the man to "get Brexit done" and that's all that matters it seems.

Hancock is spectacular at the minute asking people to do their civic duty if called upon to isolate for 14 days and in the same breath say that Cummings did nothing wrong.

Balloons
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 28, 2020, 12:30:15 PM
(https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fd6c748xw2pzm8.cloudfront.net%2Fprod%2F35e3bd60-a0af-11ea-a66c-6d1496c6ac5f-fullwidth.png?fit=scale-down&quality=highest&source=next&width=800)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 28, 2020, 01:14:38 PM
Reports coming out that police have confirmed Cummings broke lockdown rules.

Should be fun watching BJ & Hancock defend this - or will they undermine the entire police force.

If he doesnt go now it will get even messier

Edit to say the police have said he 'might' have broken them - f**k me  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 28, 2020, 01:42:11 PM
And a minor breach, and no mention of him being guilty of being a complete spoofer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 28, 2020, 02:08:06 PM
The bigger one for me is the law here. You can't go round fining people and then this guy just does what he wants. How then can the law actually enforce fines?

I know there's all this shite about it being anti brexiteers etc etc but Cummings doing this breaks so many things.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 28, 2020, 02:12:26 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 28, 2020, 02:08:06 PM
The bigger one for me is the law here. You can't go round fining people and then this guy just does what he wants. How then can the law actually enforce fines?

I know there's all this shite about it being anti brexiteers etc etc but Cummings doing this breaks so many things.

Why can't they fine him too?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 28, 2020, 02:13:51 PM
Exactly Tommy. One rule for the big shots
How can the police charge anyone now? Only a small breach. A breach is a breach. It's like being over the speed limit by a small bit. Doesn't matter it's a breach
Sack him
Further encouragement from the north only 2 deaths and 16 cases the lowest cases since it started. Track trace and isolate seems to be working.
And I'll say it again every death is so bad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 28, 2020, 02:22:19 PM
Quote from: five points on May 28, 2020, 02:12:26 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 28, 2020, 02:08:06 PM
The bigger one for me is the law here. You can't go round fining people and then this guy just does what he wants. How then can the law actually enforce fines?

I know there's all this shite about it being anti brexiteers etc etc but Cummings doing this breaks so many things.

Why can't they fine him too?

I would assume they can but have they?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 28, 2020, 02:22:39 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 28, 2020, 02:13:51 PM
Exactly Tommy. One rule for the big shots
How can the police charge anyone now? Only a small breach. A breach is a breach. It's like being over the speed limit by a small bit. Doesn't matter it's a breach
Sack him
Further encouragement from the north only 2 deaths and 16 cases the lowest cases since it started. Track trace and isolate seems to be working.
And I'll say it again every death is so bad.

There was no deaths on Monday, so all positive. We are back to work on the 15th a lot of business looking at this date also
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 28, 2020, 02:25:51 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 28, 2020, 01:14:38 PM
Reports coming out that police have confirmed Cummings broke lockdown rules.

Should be fun watching BJ & Hancock defend this - or will they undermine the entire police force.

If he doesnt go now it will get even messier

Edit to say the police have said he 'might' have broken them - f**k me  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I've a feeling we'll see Boris throw something to the public now to try and change the agenda. Easing of restrictions, something to give the public something else to concentrate on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 28, 2020, 02:27:26 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 28, 2020, 02:22:19 PM
Quote from: five points on May 28, 2020, 02:12:26 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 28, 2020, 02:08:06 PM
The bigger one for me is the law here. You can't go round fining people and then this guy just does what he wants. How then can the law actually enforce fines?

I know there's all this shite about it being anti brexiteers etc etc but Cummings doing this breaks so many things.

Why can't they fine him too?

I would assume they can but have they?

Dunno but he should be OK for €60.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 28, 2020, 02:31:09 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 28, 2020, 02:25:51 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 28, 2020, 01:14:38 PM
Reports coming out that police have confirmed Cummings broke lockdown rules.

Should be fun watching BJ & Hancock defend this - or will they undermine the entire police force.

If he doesnt go now it will get even messier

Edit to say the police have said he 'might' have broken them - f**k me  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I've a feeling we'll see Boris throw something to the public now to try and change the agenda. Easing of restrictions, something to give the public something else to concentrate on.

This?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pubs-could-open-sooner-than-july-f2fvd0mmk
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 28, 2020, 02:31:53 PM
I'd add 5 or so zeroes on there and still should be ok for it.

That's an awful mess they have created.

Thankfully we are going the right direction on this island. Hopefully some sense of normality will start to appear or at least be on the horizon soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 28, 2020, 02:34:04 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on May 28, 2020, 02:31:09 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 28, 2020, 02:25:51 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 28, 2020, 01:14:38 PM
Reports coming out that police have confirmed Cummings broke lockdown rules.

Should be fun watching BJ & Hancock defend this - or will they undermine the entire police force.

If he doesnt go now it will get even messier

Edit to say the police have said he 'might' have broken them - f**k me  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I've a feeling we'll see Boris throw something to the public now to try and change the agenda. Easing of restrictions, something to give the public something else to concentrate on.

This?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pubs-could-open-sooner-than-july-f2fvd0mmk

Can't read all that article unfortunately, but yeah - that would appease the masses alright.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 28, 2020, 02:45:28 PM
You can get a lot of papers free to read, but you need to sign up for a library number.

Got this a while ago.
We've launched a new service! If you live, work or study in Northern Ireland you can now read online regional, national and international newspapers for FREE. Sign up now for instant access   bit.ly/lni-eMags-eNews #StayAtHome

Make sure you sign up for RB digital, Google it. Doesn't do a few, but what the hell
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 28, 2020, 04:06:51 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 28, 2020, 02:25:51 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 28, 2020, 01:14:38 PM
Reports coming out that police have confirmed Cummings broke lockdown rules.

Should be fun watching BJ & Hancock defend this - or will they undermine the entire police force.

If he doesnt go now it will get even messier

Edit to say the police have said he 'might' have broken them - f**k me  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I've a feeling we'll see Boris throw something to the public now to try and change the agenda. Easing of restrictions, something to give the public something else to concentrate on.

Twittee saying he'll give the nod for more fast food outlets to keep the peasants happy!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 28, 2020, 05:18:54 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 28, 2020, 01:14:38 PM
Reports coming out that police have confirmed Cummings broke lockdown rules.

Should be fun watching BJ & Hancock defend this - or will they undermine the entire police force.

If he doesnt go now it will get even messier

Edit to say the police have said he 'might' have broken them - f**k me  ;D ;D ;D ;D

False reports.


Durham Constabulary press statement
28/05/2020
​
QuoteOn 27 March 2020, Dominic Cummings drove to Durham to self-isolate in a property owned by his father.


Durham Constabulary does not consider that by locating himself at his father's premises, Mr Cummings committed an offence contrary to regulation 6 of the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020. (We are concerned here with breaches of the Regulations, not the general Government guidance to "stay at home".)


On 12 April 2020, Mr Cummings drove approximately 26 miles from his father's property to Barnard Castle with his wife and son. He stated on 25 May 2020 that the purpose of this drive was to test his resilience to drive to London the following day, including whether his eyesight was sufficiently recovered, his period of self-isolation having ended.


Durham Constabulary have examined the circumstances surrounding the journey to Barnard Castle (including ANPR, witness evidence and a review of Mr Cummings' press conference on 25 May 2020) and have concluded that there might have been a minor breach of the Regulations that would have warranted police intervention. Durham Constabulary view this as minor because there was no apparent breach of social distancing.


Had a Durham Constabulary police officer stopped Mr Cummings driving to or from Barnard Castle, the officer would have spoken to him, and, having established the facts, likely advised Mr Cummings to return to the address in Durham, providing advice on the dangers of travelling during the pandemic crisis. Had this advice been accepted by Mr Cummings, no enforcement action would have been taken.


In line with Durham Constabulary's general approach throughout the pandemic, there is no intention to take retrospective action in respect of the Barnard Castle incident since this would amount to treating Mr Cummings differently from other members of the public. Durham Constabulary has not taken retrospective action against any other person.


By way of further context, Durham Constabulary has followed Government guidance on management of alleged breaches of the regulations with the emphasis on the NPCC and College of Policing 4Es: Engage, Explain and Encourage before Enforcement.


Finally, commentary in the media has suggested that Mr Cummings was in Durham on 19 April 2020. Mr Cummings denies this and Durham Constabulary have seen insufficient evidence to support this allegation.


Therefore Durham Constabulary will take no further action in this matter and has informed Mr Cummings of this decision.

https://www.durham.police.uk/news-and-events/Pages/News%20Articles/Durham-Constabulary-press-statement--.aspx
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 28, 2020, 05:34:17 PM
In the UK In the last two days near 4,000 cases of the virus and almost 800 deaths from the virus (only confirmed numbers much higher than that) yet Boris thinks now is a good time to ease restrictions?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on May 28, 2020, 05:42:07 PM

Durham Constabulary press statement
28/05/2020
​
QuoteOn 27 March 2020, Dominic Cummings drove to Durham to self-isolate in a property owned by his father.


Durham Constabulary does not consider that by locating himself at his father's premises, Mr Cummings committed an offence contrary to regulation 6 of the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020. (We are concerned here with breaches of the Regulations, not the general Government guidance to "stay at home".)


On 12 April 2020, Mr Cummings drove approximately 26 miles from his father's property to Barnard Castle with his wife and son. He stated on 25 May 2020 that the purpose of this drive was to test his resilience to drive to London the following day, including whether his eyesight was sufficiently recovered, his period of self-isolation having ended.


Durham Constabulary have examined the circumstances surrounding the journey to Barnard Castle (including ANPR, witness evidence and a review of Mr Cummings' press conference on 25 May 2020) and have concluded that there might have been a minor breach of the Regulations that would have warranted police intervention. Durham Constabulary view this as minor because there was no apparent breach of social distancing.


Had a Durham Constabulary police officer stopped Mr Cummings driving to or from Barnard Castle, the officer would have spoken to him, and, having established the facts, likely advised Mr Cummings to return to the address in Durham, providing advice on the dangers of travelling during the pandemic crisis. Had this advice been accepted by Mr Cummings, no enforcement action would have been taken.


In line with Durham Constabulary's general approach throughout the pandemic, there is no intention to take retrospective action in respect of the Barnard Castle incident since this would amount to treating Mr Cummings differently from other members of the public. Durham Constabulary has not taken retrospective action against any other person.


By way of further context, Durham Constabulary has followed Government guidance on management of alleged breaches of the regulations with the emphasis on the NPCC and College of Policing 4Es: Engage, Explain and Encourage before Enforcement.


Finally, commentary in the media has suggested that Mr Cummings was in Durham on 19 April 2020. Mr Cummings denies this and Durham Constabulary have seen insufficient evidence to support this allegation.


Therefore Durham Constabulary will take no further action in this matter and has informed Mr Cummings of this decision.

https://www.durham.police.uk/news-and-events/Pages/News%20Articles/Durham-Constabulary-press-statement--.aspx
[/quote]
What a spineless shower of cowards, police and the british govt. Lockdown is therefore officially over
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 28, 2020, 05:43:42 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on May 28, 2020, 05:34:17 PM
In the UK In the last two days near 4,000 cases of the virus and almost 800 deaths from the virus (only confirmed numbers much higher than that) yet Boris thinks now is a good time to ease restrictions?


I think at 34,000 deaths in England alone it shouldn't have the title 'UK' in these reports
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 28, 2020, 07:12:37 PM
Quote from: five points on May 28, 2020, 05:18:54 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 28, 2020, 01:14:38 PM
Reports coming out that police have confirmed Cummings broke lockdown rules.

Should be fun watching BJ & Hancock defend this - or will they undermine the entire police force.

If he doesnt go now it will get even messier

Edit to say the police have said he 'might' have broken them - f**k me  ;D ;D ;D ;D

False reports.


Durham Constabulary press statement
28/05/2020
​
QuoteOn 27 March 2020, Dominic Cummings drove to Durham to self-isolate in a property owned by his father.


Durham Constabulary does not consider that by locating himself at his father's premises, Mr Cummings committed an offence contrary to regulation 6 of the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020. (We are concerned here with breaches of the Regulations, not the general Government guidance to "stay at home".)


On 12 April 2020, Mr Cummings drove approximately 26 miles from his father's property to Barnard Castle with his wife and son. He stated on 25 May 2020 that the purpose of this drive was to test his resilience to drive to London the following day, including whether his eyesight was sufficiently recovered, his period of self-isolation having ended.


Durham Constabulary have examined the circumstances surrounding the journey to Barnard Castle (including ANPR, witness evidence and a review of Mr Cummings' press conference on 25 May 2020) and have concluded that there might have been a minor breach of the Regulations that would have warranted police intervention. Durham Constabulary view this as minor because there was no apparent breach of social distancing.


Had a Durham Constabulary police officer stopped Mr Cummings driving to or from Barnard Castle, the officer would have spoken to him, and, having established the facts, likely advised Mr Cummings to return to the address in Durham, providing advice on the dangers of travelling during the pandemic crisis. Had this advice been accepted by Mr Cummings, no enforcement action would have been taken.


In line with Durham Constabulary's general approach throughout the pandemic, there is no intention to take retrospective action in respect of the Barnard Castle incident since this would amount to treating Mr Cummings differently from other members of the public. Durham Constabulary has not taken retrospective action against any other person.


By way of further context, Durham Constabulary has followed Government guidance on management of alleged breaches of the regulations with the emphasis on the NPCC and College of Policing 4Es: Engage, Explain and Encourage before Enforcement.


Finally, commentary in the media has suggested that Mr Cummings was in Durham on 19 April 2020. Mr Cummings denies this and Durham Constabulary have seen insufficient evidence to support this allegation.


Therefore Durham Constabulary will take no further action in this matter and has informed Mr Cummings of this decision.

https://www.durham.police.uk/news-and-events/Pages/News%20Articles/Durham-Constabulary-press-statement--.aspx

Hence the edit part of my post.........
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 28, 2020, 07:29:49 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 28, 2020, 07:12:37 PM

Hence the edit part of my post.........

Fair enough. Your last line is on the money alright. :)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 28, 2020, 07:40:53 PM
Quote from: five points on May 28, 2020, 07:29:49 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 28, 2020, 07:12:37 PM

Hence the edit part of my post.........

Fair enough. Your last line is on the money alright. :)

They are making Trump look competent  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 29, 2020, 09:04:15 AM
Quote from: Taylor on May 28, 2020, 07:40:53 PM
Quote from: five points on May 28, 2020, 07:29:49 PM
Quote from: Taylor on May 28, 2020, 07:12:37 PM

Hence the edit part of my post.........

Fair enough. Your last line is on the money alright. :)

They are making Trump look competent  ;D

The "might" is used in its legal term as it's not for the police to decide if he's guilty or not, that's the courts.

For them to even use this term suggests that if they'd caught Cummings at the scene, they'd have asked him to return to his place of residence. If he'd resisted they may then have fined him, but as they point out there doesn't seem to have been a breach of social distancing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 29, 2020, 09:26:18 AM
The semantics are very important when it comes to this >:(

I was watching a bit on the BBC news this morning interviewing a care home manager where there have been a number of deaths (in England). It is absolutely shameful how these older people have been treated. They were left to die and given no chance whatsoever. What happened when someone tested positive the manager was asked? Nothing she said. There should be serious prosecutions for this. The hospitals weren't even in dire straits in a lot of cases and these people could have been helped and I'm sure while not everyone who tested positive would have lived some would have. They just wrote them off. It's absolutely horrendous.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 29, 2020, 09:37:40 AM
A disgrace Tommy. Carehomes should have been the first things to be sorted. A travesty
Now if this virus was to hit everyone here and nobody knew what was going on
We knew 4 weeks out and had time to prepare. It was the old and vulnerable that this virus attacked the most. Now the most sensible thing to do in this scenario would be to go straight to old people's homes. What a mess they have made. Heads should role after this they really should.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 29, 2020, 09:41:39 AM
It's not that it was incompetence or a lack of time to prepare. They were left for dead. (I don't know enough about what happened in the south to know if it was the same but in the Uk it certainly looks that way). Not only left for dead but proper PPE wasn't even available for the care workers et so they weren't even given decent protection in the first place.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 29, 2020, 09:44:16 AM
To the naked eye it would seem it was a type of 'herd metality'.......but not for everyone........only for the care homes.

Wonder where we first came across that phrase.

Bojo and his cohorts should hang his head in shame
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 29, 2020, 09:47:11 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 29, 2020, 09:37:40 AM
A disgrace Tommy. Carehomes should have been the first things to be sorted. A travesty
Now if this virus was to hit everyone here and nobody knew what was going on
We knew 4 weeks out and had time to prepare. It was the old and vulnerable that this virus attacked the most. Now the most sensible thing to do in this scenario would be to go straight to old people's homes. What a mess they have made. Heads should role after this they really should.

Look at Boris' 5 targets? See Care home deaths mentioned in there, no?

To prevent the NHS being overrun as they saw it, they (and it seems to have also been the case in the Rep, let alone Scotland, Wales and here) emptied as many out of hospital wards into Care homes without checking whether these people had Covid 19 or not. The Care homes had no option but to take them as some that questioned this decision were threatened with having their budgets cut and also GP's were informed to only offer palliative care.
There were rumours of families seeing their parents medical notes with DNR orders on them that they knew nothing about, if that is true then people in high positions should do time but we all know that won't happen.

Absolute disgrace and hopefully the truth will come out over time.

The great cull has happened in front of our very eyes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 29, 2020, 10:13:52 AM
Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency (NISRA) reveals that 53% of all covid 19 deaths in NI were care home residents.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 29, 2020, 10:36:19 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 29, 2020, 09:47:11 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 29, 2020, 09:37:40 AM
A disgrace Tommy. Carehomes should have been the first things to be sorted. A travesty
Now if this virus was to hit everyone here and nobody knew what was going on
We knew 4 weeks out and had time to prepare. It was the old and vulnerable that this virus attacked the most. Now the most sensible thing to do in this scenario would be to go straight to old people's homes. What a mess they have made. Heads should role after this they really should.

Look at Boris' 5 targets? See Care home deaths mentioned in there, no?

To prevent the NHS being overrun as they saw it, they (and it seems to have also been the case in the Rep, let alone Scotland, Wales and here) emptied as many out of hospital wards into Care homes without checking whether these people had Covid 19 or not. The Care homes had no option but to take them as some that questioned this decision were threatened with having their budgets cut and also GP's were informed to only offer palliative care.
There were rumours of families seeing their parents medical notes with DNR orders on them that they knew nothing about, if that is true then people in high positions should do time but we all know that won't happen.

Absolute disgrace and hopefully the truth will come out over time.

The great cull has happened in front of our very eyes.

That's what I would describe it as too. A cull of the older generation. Heads should roll and prosecutions should be made but none of it will happen >:(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 29, 2020, 11:15:46 AM
Someone recently posted about the K rate, what is it? Can't find anything about it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on May 29, 2020, 11:20:20 AM
Quote from: Square Ball on May 29, 2020, 11:15:46 AM
Someone recently posted about the K rate, what is it? Can't find anything about it.

The rate of Karens on my Facebook feed seems to be infinite!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 29, 2020, 11:26:21 AM
Quote from: Square Ball on May 29, 2020, 11:15:46 AM
Someone recently posted about the K rate, what is it? Can't find anything about it.

https://www.ft.com/content/121c2f30-9f69-11ea-ba68-3d5500196c30 (https://www.ft.com/content/121c2f30-9f69-11ea-ba68-3d5500196c30)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on May 29, 2020, 12:37:48 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 29, 2020, 09:41:39 AM
It's not that it was incompetence or a lack of time to prepare. They were left for dead. (I don't know enough about what happened in the south to know if it was the same but in the Uk it certainly looks that way). Not only left for dead but proper PPE wasn't even available for the care workers et so they weren't even given decent protection in the first place.

I know in the south their was a certain amount of PPE equipment and hosiptals obviously went to the top of the queue and care homes were down the list. Despite what cranks like Ewan McKenna will tell you, there was very little time to prepare. Speaking from experience sourcing PPE equipment has not been easy and several orders my company made fell through due to supplier not being able to provide the equipment. China was in the middle of the crisis and mainland europe was starting to see the worst of the virus just as it started here so these countries all had a head start in sourcing PPE equipment, face masks etc and there was only so much to go around.

Having said that it's very difficult to ask people to go into highly infected nursing homes to investigate deaths knowing the virus is so contagious. In the next few months a review should be carried out in nursing homes to see were there even precautions/policies implemented for basic things such as social distancing or isolating infected individuals
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 29, 2020, 03:01:34 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 29, 2020, 12:37:48 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 29, 2020, 09:41:39 AM
It's not that it was incompetence or a lack of time to prepare. They were left for dead. (I don't know enough about what happened in the south to know if it was the same but in the Uk it certainly looks that way). Not only left for dead but proper PPE wasn't even available for the care workers et so they weren't even given decent protection in the first place.

I know in the south their was a certain amount of PPE equipment and hosiptals obviously went to the top of the queue and care homes were down the list. Despite what cranks like Ewan McKenna will tell you, there was very little time to prepare. Speaking from experience sourcing PPE equipment has not been easy and several orders my company made fell through due to supplier not being able to provide the equipment. China was in the middle of the crisis and mainland europe was starting to see the worst of the virus just as it started here so these countries all had a head start in sourcing PPE equipment, face masks etc and there was only so much to go around.

Having said that it's very difficult to ask people to go into highly infected nursing homes to investigate deaths knowing the virus is so contagious. In the next few months a review should be carried out in nursing homes to see were there even precautions/policies implemented for basic things such as social distancing or isolating infected individuals

All our PPE is coming from China. I've got to pick it all up in Dublin, hopefully Main Street well allow me to pass through
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 29, 2020, 03:15:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 29, 2020, 03:01:34 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 29, 2020, 12:37:48 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 29, 2020, 09:41:39 AM
It's not that it was incompetence or a lack of time to prepare. They were left for dead. (I don't know enough about what happened in the south to know if it was the same but in the Uk it certainly looks that way). Not only left for dead but proper PPE wasn't even available for the care workers et so they weren't even given decent protection in the first place.

I know in the south their was a certain amount of PPE equipment and hosiptals obviously went to the top of the queue and care homes were down the list. Despite what cranks like Ewan McKenna will tell you, there was very little time to prepare. Speaking from experience sourcing PPE equipment has not been easy and several orders my company made fell through due to supplier not being able to provide the equipment. China was in the middle of the crisis and mainland europe was starting to see the worst of the virus just as it started here so these countries all had a head start in sourcing PPE equipment, face masks etc and there was only so much to go around.

Having said that it's very difficult to ask people to go into highly infected nursing homes to investigate deaths knowing the virus is so contagious. In the next few months a review should be carried out in nursing homes to see were there even precautions/policies implemented for basic things such as social distancing or isolating infected individuals

All our PPE is coming from China. I've got to pick it all up in Dublin, hopefully Main Street well allow me to pass through

If he stops you give me a shout, I'll show you the backroad into Emyvale.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on May 29, 2020, 03:29:18 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 29, 2020, 12:37:48 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 29, 2020, 09:41:39 AM
It's not that it was incompetence or a lack of time to prepare. They were left for dead. (I don't know enough about what happened in the south to know if it was the same but in the Uk it certainly looks that way). Not only left for dead but proper PPE wasn't even available for the care workers et so they weren't even given decent protection in the first place.

I know in the south their was a certain amount of PPE equipment and hosiptals obviously went to the top of the queue and care homes were down the list. Despite what cranks like Ewan McKenna will tell you, there was very little time to prepare. Speaking from experience sourcing PPE equipment has not been easy and several orders my company made fell through due to supplier not being able to provide the equipment. China was in the middle of the crisis and mainland europe was starting to see the worst of the virus just as it started here so these countries all had a head start in sourcing PPE equipment, face masks etc and there was only so much to go around.

Having said that it's very difficult to ask people to go into highly infected nursing homes to investigate deaths knowing the virus is so contagious. In the next few months a review should be carried out in nursing homes to see were there even precautions/policies implemented for basic things such as social distancing or isolating infected individuals
Some  60% of nursing homes had no infections, therefore it was not just a situation with lack of PPE  but also how early the nursing home closed down and staffing issues. This article https://jrnl.ie/5080182  presents evidence that the NHI (private nursing homes)  were concerned and pro active from early february onwards, but were not taken seriously by HSE. The NHI closed down March 6th  against HSE advice and it took another 2 weeks for the  HSE's guidelines  to catch up with the NHI.

I'd be interested to hear what was different about the 60% to 70% of nursing homes that had no infections.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 29, 2020, 03:56:10 PM
Permanent regular staff???
As opposed to agency people moving from Home to Home?
Have an elderly relative in one of the 3 Homes up in Boyle.
They stopped visitors coming in at an early stage.
In fact the 3 Homes in Boyle are clear of the Virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 29, 2020, 05:54:30 PM
This could also go into the WTF thread https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-monkeys-escape-with-covid-19-samples-after-attacking-lab-assistant-11996752


Quote from: screenexile on May 29, 2020, 11:20:20 AM
Quote from: Square Ball on May 29, 2020, 11:15:46 AM
Someone recently posted about the K rate, what is it? Can't find anything about it.

The rate of Karens on my Facebook feed seems to be infinite!!!

Fair play to Karen.

(https://i.ibb.co/qNmmy7j/Screenshot-20200529-184647-2.png) (https://ibb.co/bsNNWQm)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Olly on May 29, 2020, 08:15:14 PM
How do you think we'll remember the coronavirus? I think it'll be a time when we grew to hate each other even more.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 29, 2020, 08:44:04 PM
It will be remembered as the time when teachers got six months holidays on full pay. While workers in Lidl, Aldi, Tesco, Dunnes etc worked on as usual meeting thousands of people daily and were considered under no threat.

Why are teachers who are basically unemployed getting full pay? Why have they not been on the €350 like everyone else without work?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 29, 2020, 09:17:38 PM
What teacher is not continuing to teach? If they are not doing so they should be sacked, not put on €350 a week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 29, 2020, 10:45:32 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 29, 2020, 08:44:04 PM
It will be remembered as the time when teachers got six months holidays on full pay. While workers in Lidl, Aldi, Tesco, Dunnes etc worked on as usual meeting thousands of people daily and were considered under no threat.

Why are teachers who are basically unemployed getting full pay? Why have they not been on the €350 like everyone else without work?

It will encourage  people to take up teaching ! I might take it up again, oh nah, I'll  not bother
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on May 29, 2020, 10:47:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 29, 2020, 09:17:38 PM
What teacher is not continuing to teach? If they are not doing so they should be sacked, not put on €350 a week.

It's actually 12 - 14 weeks  depending on summer holiday closures .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 29, 2020, 10:51:17 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 29, 2020, 08:44:04 PM
It will be remembered as the time when teachers got six months holidays on full pay. While workers in Lidl, Aldi, Tesco, Dunnes etc worked on as usual meeting thousands of people daily and were considered under no threat.

Why are teachers who are basically unemployed getting full pay? Why have they not been on the €350 like everyone else without work?

And the nurses working in Ward got sweet feck all as usual , not even a bonus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 29, 2020, 11:02:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 29, 2020, 09:17:38 PM
What teacher is not continuing to teach? If they are not doing so they should be sacked, not put on €350 a week.

What teachers are continuing to teach is the question?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 29, 2020, 11:51:53 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 29, 2020, 11:12:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 29, 2020, 11:02:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 29, 2020, 09:17:38 PM
What teacher is not continuing to teach? If they are not doing so they should be sacked, not put on €350 a week.

What teachers are continuing to teach is the question?
Most to all?
You could have furloughed them at the beginning. That'd be 80% pay (up here in the bit you didn't want) and doing absolutely zero work. A bit late now.

Most to all me hole!

Most are on holiday since mid-march. An e-mail on a Sunday night and that's the weeks work. Feck off there Mammy and Daddy and do my work for the week and I'll just collect my wages on Friday. It's the biggest gravy train show in town.


In the beginning we were told the schools would be closed for three weeks. Then another 3 weeks and so on! And with all the scare mongering talk of the fear of going back in September, this Sh1te could drag on til Christmas.

Funny how shop workers who encounter all sorts everyday are not in danger and can go to work, but teachers need cotton wool!

I suppose the uneducated riff-raff of society don't count.

We are all in this together but there are different rules for different classes of people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on May 29, 2020, 11:59:51 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 29, 2020, 11:51:53 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 29, 2020, 11:12:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 29, 2020, 11:02:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 29, 2020, 09:17:38 PM
What teacher is not continuing to teach? If they are not doing so they should be sacked, not put on €350 a week.

What teachers are continuing to teach is the question?
Most to all?
You could have furloughed them at the beginning. That'd be 80% pay (up here in the bit you didn't want) and doing absolutely zero work. A bit late now.

Most to all me hole!

Most are on holiday since mid-march. An e-mail on a Sunday night and that's the weeks work. Feck off there Mammy and Daddy and do my work for the week and I'll just collect my wages on Friday. It's the biggest gravy train show in town.


In the beginning we were told the schools would be closed for three weeks. Then another 3 weeks and so on! And with all the scare mongering talk of the fear of going back in September, this Sh1te could drag on til Christmas.

In my experience it's a mixed bunch. I've 3 kids with 3 different teachers. 1 of them is very active, sending out stuff, checking in  correcting and organising classes on some app. One is doing a bit, sending out homework and a bit of correcting. Then there is another who sends an email every 2 weeks, loaded to the gills with stuff to do,  stuff they've never covered and hes making no attempt to follow up. If course there will be nothing gone to him, no accountability she the INTO will back home to the hilt even if there is. It's a shame the good teacher gets no extra incentive and the useless one gets no punishment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:06:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on May 29, 2020, 11:59:51 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 29, 2020, 11:51:53 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 29, 2020, 11:12:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 29, 2020, 11:02:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 29, 2020, 09:17:38 PM
What teacher is not continuing to teach? If they are not doing so they should be sacked, not put on €350 a week.

What teachers are continuing to teach is the question?
Most to all?
You could have furloughed them at the beginning. That'd be 80% pay (up here in the bit you didn't want) and doing absolutely zero work. A bit late now.

Most to all me hole!

Most are on holiday since mid-march. An e-mail on a Sunday night and that's the weeks work. Feck off there Mammy and Daddy and do my work for the week and I'll just collect my wages on Friday. It's the biggest gravy train show in town.


In the beginning we were told the schools would be closed for three weeks. Then another 3 weeks and so on! And with all the scare mongering talk of the fear of going back in September, this Sh1te could drag on til Christmas.

In my experience it's a mixed bunch. I've 3 kids with 3 different teachers. 1 of them is very active, sending out stuff, checking in  correcting and organising classes on some app. One is doing a bit, sending out homework and a bit of correcting. Then there is another who sends an email every 2 weeks, loaded to the gills with stuff to do,  stuff they've never covered and hes making no attempt to follow up. If course there will be nothing gone to him, no accountability she the INTO will back home to the hilt even if there is. It's a shame the good teacher gets no extra incentive and the useless one gets no punishment.

Do you think that even your best teacher is doing work worthy of a weeks wage?

I have 3 kids in national school. None of the homework is corrected by the teacher. Only one of the three sends a sample of answers and has a proper layout for the week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 30, 2020, 12:10:31 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 29, 2020, 10:54:05 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 29, 2020, 10:51:17 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 29, 2020, 08:44:04 PM
It will be remembered as the time when teachers got six months holidays on full pay. While workers in Lidl, Aldi, Tesco, Dunnes etc worked on as usual meeting thousands of people daily and were considered under no threat.

Why are teachers who are basically unemployed getting full pay? Why have they not been on the €350 like everyone else without work?

And the nurses working in Ward got sweet feck all as usual , not even a bonus
Sure, they never got it as handy, going by reports on here. I even stopped clapping them.

Haven't been reading the thread much recently. Those assigned to covid wards certainly earned their crust. Also going forward they are going to get it super tight in  areas where the ppe weighs an absolute tonne and the backlog is months long
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:17:27 AM
Bunker probably needs to get out in the good weather for a while.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:18:34 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 30, 2020, 12:07:52 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 29, 2020, 11:51:53 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 29, 2020, 11:12:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 29, 2020, 11:02:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 29, 2020, 09:17:38 PM
What teacher is not continuing to teach? If they are not doing so they should be sacked, not put on €350 a week.

What teachers are continuing to teach is the question?
Most to all?
You could have furloughed them at the beginning. That'd be 80% pay (up here in the bit you didn't want) and doing absolutely zero work. A bit late now.

Most to all me hole!

Most are on holiday since mid-march. An e-mail on a Sunday night and that's the weeks work. Feck off there Mammy and Daddy and do my work for the week and I'll just collect my wages on Friday. It's the biggest gravy train show in town.


In the beginning we were told the schools would be closed for three weeks. Then another 3 weeks and so on! And with all the scare mongering talk of the fear of going back in September, this Sh1te could drag on til Christmas.

Funny how shop workers who encounter all sorts everyday are not in danger and can go to work, but teachers need cotton wool!

I suppose the uneducated riff-raff of society don't count.

We are all in this together but there are different rules for different classes of people.
If you say so. Perhaps if you have legitimate concerns that a teacher is not providing an adequate service, you could seek to rectify that. Or...you could take to social media and Internet forums and demand that all teachers have their pay stopped. That being successful would result in a cessation of all educational engagement, impinge on the rights of the child and create a lot of angst among parents who are experiencing a positive, if not alternative learning environment for their child. Don't let that get in the way of your Karen on Facebook moment though. It's important too.

Clap! Clap! It's our socialist leader Peadar!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:17:27 AM
Bunker probably needs to get out in the good weather for a while.

I have no worry about getting out! I've been out and working these last 10 weeks! I see first hand every day the double standards!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:21:58 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 30, 2020, 12:20:47 AM
Weak enough reply, Karen.

Fair enough Peadar!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:30:28 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:17:27 AM
Bunker probably needs to get out in the good weather for a while.

I have no worry about getting out! I've been out and working these last 10 weeks! I see first hand every day the double standards!
I trust you're getting paid for what you do?
So why be stressing yourself worrying about others then?
Remember the Gospel story about those that only worked for the last hour getting paid as much as those hired earlier?
Relax and enjoy the good weather, the cleanegcair, cleaner rivers and streams, the greeness etc and be positive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:30:28 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:17:27 AM
Bunker probably needs to get out in the good weather for a while.

I have no worry about getting out! I've been out and working these last 10 weeks! I see first hand every day the double standards!
I trust you're getting paid for what you do?
So why be stressing yourself worrying about others then?
Remember the Gospel story about those that only worked for the last hour getting paid as much as those hired earlier?
Relax and enjoy the good weather, the cleanegcair, cleaner rivers and streams, the greeness etc and be positive.

I am paid for what I do! Do you think worker should get paid a full wage for less than a full weeks work? Do you care? Do you think it matters? Do you think there will be an incentive for these workers to return to work? I mean what fool would go back to work if they get the same wages for doing virtually nothing?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on May 30, 2020, 01:16:24 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:06:42 AM
Quote from: Itchy on May 29, 2020, 11:59:51 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 29, 2020, 11:51:53 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 29, 2020, 11:12:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 29, 2020, 11:02:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 29, 2020, 09:17:38 PM
What teacher is not continuing to teach? If they are not doing so they should be sacked, not put on €350 a week.

What teachers are continuing to teach is the question?
Most to all?
You could have furloughed them at the beginning. That'd be 80% pay (up here in the bit you didn't want) and doing absolutely zero work. A bit late now.

Most to all me hole!

Most are on holiday since mid-march. An e-mail on a Sunday night and that's the weeks work. Feck off there Mammy and Daddy and do my work for the week and I'll just collect my wages on Friday. It's the biggest gravy train show in town.


In the beginning we were told the schools would be closed for three weeks. Then another 3 weeks and so on! And with all the scare mongering talk of the fear of going back in September, this Sh1te could drag on til Christmas.

In my experience it's a mixed bunch. I've 3 kids with 3 different teachers. 1 of them is very active, sending out stuff, checking in  correcting and organising classes on some app. One is doing a bit, sending out homework and a bit of correcting. Then there is another who sends an email every 2 weeks, loaded to the gills with stuff to do,  stuff they've never covered and hes making no attempt to follow up. If course there will be nothing gone to him, no accountability she the INTO will back home to the hilt even if there is. It's a shame the good teacher gets no extra incentive and the useless one gets no punishment.

Do you think that even your best teacher is doing work worthy of a weeks wage?

I have 3 kids in national school. None of the homework is corrected by the teacher. Only one of the three sends a sample of answers and has a proper layout for the week.

How good is the teaching in your child's school normally ?
Because if it is on a par with the support at the minute , it must be really poor .
Did you query the level.of support?


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 30, 2020, 02:45:55 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:30:28 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:17:27 AM
Bunker probably needs to get out in the good weather for a while.

I have no worry about getting out! I've been out and working these last 10 weeks! I see first hand every day the double standards!
I trust you're getting paid for what you do?
So why be stressing yourself worrying about others then?
Remember the Gospel story about those that only worked for the last hour getting paid as much as those hired earlier?
Relax and enjoy the good weather, the cleanegcair, cleaner rivers and streams, the greeness etc and be positive.

I am paid for what I do! Do you think worker should get paid a full wage for less than a full weeks work? Do you care? Do you think it matters? Do you think there will be an incentive for these workers to return to work? I mean what fool would go back to work if they get the same wages for doing virtually nothing?

The incentive is, if the government says your employer can start back as normal, you either go back to work and earn a living or you get The dole! They have to go back, you were just fortunate to get a full wage and be in a normal working environment
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 02:48:16 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 30, 2020, 02:45:55 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:30:28 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:17:27 AM
Bunker probably needs to get out in the good weather for a while.

I have no worry about getting out! I've been out and working these last 10 weeks! I see first hand every day the double standards!
I trust you're getting paid for what you do?
So why be stressing yourself worrying about others then?
Remember the Gospel story about those that only worked for the last hour getting paid as much as those hired earlier?
Relax and enjoy the good weather, the cleanegcair, cleaner rivers and streams, the greeness etc and be positive.

I am paid for what I do! Do you think worker should get paid a full wage for less than a full weeks work? Do you care? Do you think it matters? Do you think there will be an incentive for these workers to return to work? I mean what fool would go back to work if they get the same wages for doing virtually nothing?

The incentive is, if the government says your employer can start back as normal, you either go back to work and earn a living or you get The dole! They have to go back, you were just fortunate to get a full wage and be in a normal working environment

Are you talking about the €350 people?

There is no incentive for people on full wages to go back to work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 30, 2020, 02:49:39 AM
Do the minimum wage employees earn €350 a week for a 38 hour shift?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 02:53:04 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 30, 2020, 02:49:39 AM
Do the minimum wage employees earn €350 a week for a 38 hour shift?

There is no incentive for most of them to go back either!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 02:54:41 AM
The reality is that most people will conveniently hide behind this Pandemic to get money and stay on the doss! It's a sort of nationally approved sick note, without being sick!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ned on May 30, 2020, 06:20:10 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:30:28 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:17:27 AM
Bunker probably needs to get out in the good weather for a while.

I have no worry about getting out! I've been out and working these last 10 weeks! I see first hand every day the double standards!
I trust you're getting paid for what you do?
So why be stressing yourself worrying about others then?
Remember the Gospel story about those that only worked for the last hour getting paid as much as those hired earlier?
Relax and enjoy the good weather, the cleanegcair, cleaner rivers and streams, the greeness etc and be positive.

I am paid for what I do! Do you think worker should get paid a full wage for less than a full weeks work? Do you care? Do you think it matters? Do you think there will be an incentive for these workers to return to work? I mean what fool would go back to work if they get the same wages for doing virtually nothing?

That's a very generalised view.
Would you have chosen not to work through this?
Most didn't have a choice. Lots of workers will probably go back to less hours and less money. Or may not have a job. Some may be fucked financially.
I've heard comment from someone complaining that while they work their taxes are paying for the furlough scheme. A very right wing view.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 30, 2020, 07:37:51 AM
Quote from: ned on May 30, 2020, 06:20:10 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:30:28 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:17:27 AM
Bunker probably needs to get out in the good weather for a while.

I have no worry about getting out! I've been out and working these last 10 weeks! I see first hand every day the double standards!
I trust you're getting paid for what you do?
So why be stressing yourself worrying about others then?
Remember the Gospel story about those that only worked for the last hour getting paid as much as those hired earlier?
Relax and enjoy the good weather, the cleanegcair, cleaner rivers and streams, the greeness etc and be positive.

I am paid for what I do! Do you think worker should get paid a full wage for less than a full weeks work? Do you care? Do you think it matters? Do you think there will be an incentive for these workers to return to work? I mean what fool would go back to work if they get the same wages for doing virtually nothing?

That's a very generalised view.
Would you have chosen not to work through this?
Most didn't have a choice. Lots of workers will probably go back to less hours and less money. Or may not have a job. Some may be fucked financially.
I've heard comment from someone complaining that while they work their taxes are paying for the furlough scheme. A very right wing view.

In fairness, that is true.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on May 30, 2020, 08:02:41 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 30, 2020, 02:49:39 AM
Do the minimum wage employees earn €350 a week for a 38 hour shift?

Minimum wage is higher than that, but it costs people monru, sometimes a lot, to get to and from work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tintin25 on May 30, 2020, 08:19:21 AM
A family member was talking to an ex Civil Service colleague the other day.  Currently only working 2 days a week (in the office), yet getting paid for the full week, due to the lack of laptops/inability to work from home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 30, 2020, 08:59:18 AM
But surely like most countries the furlough will stop, once employers have to put in their own contributions it will sort things out. Anyone refusing to come in they should be laid off, employers will have to ensure work spaces are meeting the safety requirements.

If people are using the pandemic as a reason to doss then they are the wrong employees, they won't be missed.

I'm back on the 15th most of my clients are shielded so won't be available to come in, regardless of the PPE we use they should stay at home, so we'll struggle for a bit, but things no doubt will pick up!

I wish we were still working through this but it wasn't a viable option 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 30, 2020, 09:18:28 AM
Quote from: ned on May 30, 2020, 06:20:10 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:30:28 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:17:27 AM
Bunker probably needs to get out in the good weather for a while.

I have no worry about getting out! I've been out and working these last 10 weeks! I see first hand every day the double standards!
I trust you're getting paid for what you do?
So why be stressing yourself worrying about others then?
Remember the Gospel story about those that only worked for the last hour getting paid as much as those hired earlier?
Relax and enjoy the good weather, the cleanegcair, cleaner rivers and streams, the greeness etc and be positive.

I am paid for what I do! Do you think worker should get paid a full wage for less than a full weeks work? Do you care? Do you think it matters? Do you think there will be an incentive for these workers to return to work? I mean what fool would go back to work if they get the same wages for doing virtually nothing?

That's a very generalised view.
Would you have chosen not to work through this?
Most didn't have a choice. Lots of workers will probably go back to less hours and less money. Or may not have a job. Some may be fucked financially.
I've heard comment from someone complaining that while they work their taxes are paying for the furlough scheme. A very right wing view.

How could you live on €350 a week in the South? You couldn't do it in the North!
Is it right that p/t people who earn €100 a week are automatically bumped onto €350?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on May 30, 2020, 11:02:45 AM
Seriously though. Teachers sitting around getting good tans doing fcuk all. And people like Bunker working their arses off. Something not right.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 30, 2020, 11:19:15 AM
Quote from: ONeill on May 30, 2020, 11:02:45 AM
Seriously though. Teachers sitting around getting good tans doing fcuk all. And people like Bunker working their arses off. Something not right.
Your patter very poor these days O'Neill. Use the time off to sharpen your tools.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 11:31:36 AM
Quote from: ONeill on May 30, 2020, 11:02:45 AM
Seriously though. Teachers sitting around getting good tans doing fcuk all. And people like Bunker working their arses off. Something not right.

You forgot the bit about getting full pay while sitting around! They've kicked the can down the road until September! It's gas when you consider that most teenagers are hanging out in large groups with the weather being so good. And younger children are now not said to be a great risk.

Meanwhile Shop assistants, Postmen, Nurses and the like have to plough on encountering thousands of people every week!

But it's ok, Teachers have Parents are there to take up the their slack after a days work. They'll just send out an e-mail of what needs doing this week and pass the parcel onto them.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on May 30, 2020, 11:45:46 AM
Too true. I saw a picture of a teacher on the Facebook and she was in a jacuzzi drinking prosecco and it was 2pm.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:02:16 PM
It was Government who closed schools not teachers.

For the record I am not a múinteóir.

As for the €350 can they not tweak it to €350 or 75% of average weekly pay in February 2020.
Wouldn't that stop the part timers now getting 2,3 or 4 times what they had been getting?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on May 30, 2020, 12:50:38 PM
Quote from: ONeill on May 30, 2020, 11:45:46 AM
Too true. I saw a picture of a teacher on the Facebook and she was in a jacuzzi drinking prosecco and it was 2pm.

Saw it too. She was celebrating the news of the big bumper backdated pay and the pay rise she ll be receiving at the end of June. That and the reduction in workload.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 03:23:59 PM
Quote from: ONeill on May 30, 2020, 11:45:46 AM
Too true. I saw a picture of a teacher on the Facebook and she was in a jacuzzi drinking prosecco and it was 2pm.



Ah, next you'll be telling me that the same teachers have been going into their schools diligently everyday and working hard on keeping their pupils up to date on class work.

Of course they'll expect the same amount of Holidays next year when things get back to ''the new normal''.  And I'm sure there will be issues in September and this farce will last until Christmas.

I am not the only one who thinks this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on May 30, 2020, 04:01:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 30, 2020, 07:37:51 AM
Quote from: ned on May 30, 2020, 06:20:10 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:30:28 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:17:27 AM
Bunker probably needs to get out in the good weather for a while.

I have no worry about getting out! I've been out and working these last 10 weeks! I see first hand every day the double standards!
I trust you're getting paid for what you do?
So why be stressing yourself worrying about others then?
Remember the Gospel story about those that only worked for the last hour getting paid as much as those hired earlier?
Relax and enjoy the good weather, the cleanegcair, cleaner rivers and streams, the greeness etc and be positive.

I am paid for what I do! Do you think worker should get paid a full wage for less than a full weeks work? Do you care? Do you think it matters? Do you think there will be an incentive for these workers to return to work? I mean what fool would go back to work if they get the same wages for doing virtually nothing?

That's a very generalised view.
Would you have chosen not to work through this?
Most didn't have a choice. Lots of workers will probably go back to less hours and less money. Or may not have a job. Some may be fucked financially.
I've heard comment from someone complaining that while they work their taxes are paying for the furlough scheme. A very right wing view.

In fairness, that is true.

Let's be very clear here. As he's shown before, Bunker is simply pissed off that people who can't (and those who won't) are getting paid while he had to continue to work. He has lost nothing.

In the past he has been out of work and claimed the dole. Somehow here he thinks this is different and that he's being hard done by. Not losing your job and being in a position to earn through all of this is somehow unfair him.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 30, 2020, 04:19:02 PM
Stuck the radio on and Colin Murray was on and he and his guest were talking about research into Coronavirus and the new understanding they are gaining on it everyday.

Now a lot may already know this, I diddnt. in a number of cases It's not the virus that kills you, its an over reaction of your bodies immune system called a Cyrokine Storm.

Currently they are analysing individual daily taken patients blood samples to see if they can understand  what started this storm and  to see what treatment worked, or diddnt work for them, ie, oxygen, different drugs, drug concoctions, or using Remdesivir, etc. This understanding should lead to quicker and more effective treatment of could result in some patients not needing hospitalisation.

cytokine storm (SY-toh-kine ...)
A severe immune reaction in which the body releases too many cytokines into the blood too quickly. Cytokines play an important role in normal immune responses, but having a large amount of them released in the body all at once can be harmful. A cytokine storm can occur as a result of an infection, autoimmune condition, or other disease. It may also occur after treatment with some types of immunotherapy. Signs and symptoms include high fever, inflammation (redness and swelling), and severe fatigue and nausea. Sometimes, a cytokine storm may be severe or life threatening and lead to multiple organ failure. Also called hypercytokinemia.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on May 30, 2020, 05:01:19 PM
Quote from: Olly on May 29, 2020, 08:15:14 PM
How do you think we'll remember the coronavirus? I think it'll be a time when we grew to hate each other even more.

At the start it felt like we were all in this together and the politicians were happy to let the experts such as Tony Holohan lead the way. Now that things seem to be improving the same politicians are going back to their cowardly ways and leaking stories to the media, grandstanding and trying to take over as they don't seem to like the idea of not being in charge anymore.

Whatever about teachers still getting paid it shows how the far the politicians are in the pockets of the unions that not one has come out to say the 2% pay rise can't be applied this year.

We have lost tens of millions in tax income, had to pay out tens of millions in umemloyment/Covid 19 benefits and the unemployment levels are at record levels yet the Public Sector Unions are insisting the pay rise be implemented. It's insane and yet it probably will happen
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 05:06:07 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 30, 2020, 04:01:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 30, 2020, 07:37:51 AM
Quote from: ned on May 30, 2020, 06:20:10 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:30:28 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:17:27 AM
Bunker probably needs to get out in the good weather for a while.

I have no worry about getting out! I've been out and working these last 10 weeks! I see first hand every day the double standards!
I trust you're getting paid for what you do?
So why be stressing yourself worrying about others then?
Remember the Gospel story about those that only worked for the last hour getting paid as much as those hired earlier?
Relax and enjoy the good weather, the cleanegcair, cleaner rivers and streams, the greeness etc and be positive.

I am paid for what I do! Do you think worker should get paid a full wage for less than a full weeks work? Do you care? Do you think it matters? Do you think there will be an incentive for these workers to return to work? I mean what fool would go back to work if they get the same wages for doing virtually nothing?

That's a very generalised view.
Would you have chosen not to work through this?
Most didn't have a choice. Lots of workers will probably go back to less hours and less money. Or may not have a job. Some may be fucked financially.
I've heard comment from someone complaining that while they work their taxes are paying for the furlough scheme. A very right wing view.

In fairness, that is true.

Let's be very clear here. As he's shown before, Bunker is simply pissed off that people who can't (and those who won't) are getting paid while he had to continue to work. He has lost nothing.

In the past he has been out of work and claimed the dole. Somehow here he thinks this is different and that he's being hard done by. Not losing your job and being in a position to earn through all of this is somehow unfair him.

I've never been paid a full wage for doing relatively nothing in both those circumstances. If there is no work for teachers they should be on the €350 like everyone else. Why not?

As for losing nothing! I'll be well taxed to the hilt when this all comes to a halt! Some one has to pay for it! Working through all this will have been of little or no benefit! Once again why do shopkeepers and the like have to work and teachers get a free pass?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on May 30, 2020, 05:15:35 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 05:06:07 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 30, 2020, 04:01:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 30, 2020, 07:37:51 AM
Quote from: ned on May 30, 2020, 06:20:10 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:30:28 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:17:27 AM
Bunker probably needs to get out in the good weather for a while.

I have no worry about getting out! I've been out and working these last 10 weeks! I see first hand every day the double standards!
I trust you're getting paid for what you do?
So why be stressing yourself worrying about others then?
Remember the Gospel story about those that only worked for the last hour getting paid as much as those hired earlier?
Relax and enjoy the good weather, the cleanegcair, cleaner rivers and streams, the greeness etc and be positive.

I am paid for what I do! Do you think worker should get paid a full wage for less than a full weeks work? Do you care? Do you think it matters? Do you think there will be an incentive for these workers to return to work? I mean what fool would go back to work if they get the same wages for doing virtually nothing?

That's a very generalised view.
Would you have chosen not to work through this?
Most didn't have a choice. Lots of workers will probably go back to less hours and less money. Or may not have a job. Some may be fucked financially.
I've heard comment from someone complaining that while they work their taxes are paying for the furlough scheme. A very right wing view.

In fairness, that is true.

Let's be very clear here. As he's shown before, Bunker is simply pissed off that people who can't (and those who won't) are getting paid while he had to continue to work. He has lost nothing.

In the past he has been out of work and claimed the dole. Somehow here he thinks this is different and that he's being hard done by. Not losing your job and being in a position to earn through all of this is somehow unfair him.

I've never been paid a full wage for doing relatively nothing in both those circumstances. If there is no work for teachers they should be on the €350 like everyone else. Why not?

As for losing nothing! I'll be well taxed to the hilt when this all comes to a halt! Some one has to pay for it! Working through all this will have been of little or no benefit! Once again why do shopkeepers and the like have to work and teachers get a free pass?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on May 30, 2020, 05:17:43 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 05:06:07 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 30, 2020, 04:01:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 30, 2020, 07:37:51 AM
Quote from: ned on May 30, 2020, 06:20:10 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:30:28 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:17:27 AM
Bunker probably needs to get out in the good weather for a while.

I have no worry about getting out! I've been out and working these last 10 weeks! I see first hand every day the double standards!
I trust you're getting paid for what you do?
So why be stressing yourself worrying about others then?
Remember the Gospel story about those that only worked for the last hour getting paid as much as those hired earlier?
Relax and enjoy the good weather, the cleanegcair, cleaner rivers and streams, the greeness etc and be positive.

I am paid for what I do! Do you think worker should get paid a full wage for less than a full weeks work? Do you care? Do you think it matters? Do you think there will be an incentive for these workers to return to work? I mean what fool would go back to work if they get the same wages for doing virtually nothing?

That's a very generalised view.
Would you have chosen not to work through this?
Most didn't have a choice. Lots of workers will probably go back to less hours and less money. Or may not have a job. Some may be fucked financially.
I've heard comment from someone complaining that while they work their taxes are paying for the furlough scheme. A very right wing view.

In fairness, that is true.

Let's be very clear here. As he's shown before, Bunker is simply pissed off that people who can't (and those who won't) are getting paid while he had to continue to work. He has lost nothing.

In the past he has been out of work and claimed the dole. Somehow here he thinks this is different and that he's being hard done by. Not losing your job and being in a position to earn through all of this is somehow unfair him.

I've never been paid a full wage for doing relatively nothing in both those circumstances. If there is no work for teachers they should be on the €350 like everyone else. Why not?

As for losing nothing! I'll be well taxed to the hilt when this all comes to a halt! Some one has to pay for it! Working through all this will have been of little or no benefit! Once again why do shopkeepers and the like have to work and teachers get a free pass?

I'm sure the teachers aren't paying income tax or contributions either......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 05:39:11 PM
Dublin 7 jumping on the new 2020 version of bash public service workers by stopping their agreed payrise.
Shine lights and clap hands but don't pay the fkrs!!
Young FG upper class won't be getting their way on this one.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 06:24:31 PM
Quote from: delgany on May 30, 2020, 05:17:43 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 05:06:07 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 30, 2020, 04:01:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 30, 2020, 07:37:51 AM
Quote from: ned on May 30, 2020, 06:20:10 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:30:28 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:17:27 AM
Bunker probably needs to get out in the good weather for a while.

I have no worry about getting out! I've been out and working these last 10 weeks! I see first hand every day the double standards!
I trust you're getting paid for what you do?
So why be stressing yourself worrying about others then?
Remember the Gospel story about those that only worked for the last hour getting paid as much as those hired earlier?
Relax and enjoy the good weather, the cleanegcair, cleaner rivers and streams, the greeness etc and be positive.

I am paid for what I do! Do you think worker should get paid a full wage for less than a full weeks work? Do you care? Do you think it matters? Do you think there will be an incentive for these workers to return to work? I mean what fool would go back to work if they get the same wages for doing virtually nothing?

That's a very generalised view.
Would you have chosen not to work through this?
Most didn't have a choice. Lots of workers will probably go back to less hours and less money. Or may not have a job. Some may be fucked financially.
I've heard comment from someone complaining that while they work their taxes are paying for the furlough scheme. A very right wing view.

In fairness, that is true.

Let's be very clear here. As he's shown before, Bunker is simply pissed off that people who can't (and those who won't) are getting paid while he had to continue to work. He has lost nothing.

In the past he has been out of work and claimed the dole. Somehow here he thinks this is different and that he's being hard done by. Not losing your job and being in a position to earn through all of this is somehow unfair him.

I've never been paid a full wage for doing relatively nothing in both those circumstances. If there is no work for teachers they should be on the €350 like everyone else. Why not?

As for losing nothing! I'll be well taxed to the hilt when this all comes to a halt! Some one has to pay for it! Working through all this will have been of little or no benefit! Once again why do shopkeepers and the like have to work and teachers get a free pass?

I'm sure the teachers aren't paying income tax or contributions either......

The difference is i will have worked 6 months more to pay my taxes! Anyway enjoy the long holiday to September. There will be a lot of pissed off Parents to contend with when you return.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 30, 2020, 06:58:20 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 06:24:31 PM
The difference is i will have worked 6 months more to pay my taxes! Anyway enjoy the long holiday to September. There will be a lot of pissed off Parents to contend with when you return.

Presumably, in the meantime, all these parents will be behaving in a manner not likely to spread the virus then.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Olly on May 30, 2020, 07:15:31 PM
My mate's uncle's wife is a teacher and she apparently gets up at 10am, makes coffee and logs on for 15 minutes and tells pupils to keep her lit and then heads back to bed and is half cut by 3pm every day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on May 30, 2020, 07:30:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 06:24:31 PM
Quote from: delgany on May 30, 2020, 05:17:43 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 05:06:07 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 30, 2020, 04:01:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 30, 2020, 07:37:51 AM
Quote from: ned on May 30, 2020, 06:20:10 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:30:28 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:17:27 AM
Bunker probably needs to get out in the good weather for a while.

I have no worry about getting out! I've been out and working these last 10 weeks! I see first hand every day the double standards!
I trust you're getting paid for what you do?
So why be stressing yourself worrying about others then?
Remember the Gospel story about those that only worked for the last hour getting paid as much as those hired earlier?
Relax and enjoy the good weather, the cleanegcair, cleaner rivers and streams, the greeness etc and be positive.

I am paid for what I do! Do you think worker should get paid a full wage for less than a full weeks work? Do you care? Do you think it matters? Do you think there will be an incentive for these workers to return to work? I mean what fool would go back to work if they get the same wages for doing virtually nothing?

That's a very generalised view.
Would you have chosen not to work through this?
Most didn't have a choice. Lots of workers will probably go back to less hours and less money. Or may not have a job. Some may be fucked financially.
I've heard comment from someone complaining that while they work their taxes are paying for the furlough scheme. A very right wing view.

In fairness, that is true.

Let's be very clear here. As he's shown before, Bunker is simply pissed off that people who can't (and those who won't) are getting paid while he had to continue to work. He has lost nothing.

In the past he has been out of work and claimed the dole. Somehow here he thinks this is different and that he's being hard done by. Not losing your job and being in a position to earn through all of this is somehow unfair him.

I've never been paid a full wage for doing relatively nothing in both those circumstances. If there is no work for teachers they should be on the €350 like everyone else. Why not?

As for losing nothing! I'll be well taxed to the hilt when this all comes to a halt! Some one has to pay for it! Working through all this will have been of little or no benefit! Once again why do shopkeepers and the like have to work and teachers get a free pass?

I'm sure the teachers aren't paying income tax or contributions either......

The difference is i will have worked 6 months more to pay my taxes! Anyway enjoy the long holiday to September. There will be a lot of pissed off Parents to contend with when you return.

I think you ll find that teachers will have been working from home , supervising key workers children for about 70 working days to the end of June. They are not contracted to work in July and August.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 30, 2020, 07:48:21 PM
Who will the pissed off parents be pissed off with? Did you raise your concerns regards the half-arsed teacher to the principal or just rant here Bunker? 6 more deaths today RIP.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 08:38:06 PM
Quote from: delgany on May 30, 2020, 07:30:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 06:24:31 PM
Quote from: delgany on May 30, 2020, 05:17:43 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 05:06:07 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 30, 2020, 04:01:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 30, 2020, 07:37:51 AM
Quote from: ned on May 30, 2020, 06:20:10 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:30:28 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:17:27 AM
Bunker probably needs to get out in the good weather for a while.

I have no worry about getting out! I've been out and working these last 10 weeks! I see first hand every day the double standards!
I trust you're getting paid for what you do?
So why be stressing yourself worrying about others then?
Remember the Gospel story about those that only worked for the last hour getting paid as much as those hired earlier?
Relax and enjoy the good weather, the cleanegcair, cleaner rivers and streams, the greeness etc and be positive.

I am paid for what I do! Do you think worker should get paid a full wage for less than a full weeks work? Do you care? Do you think it matters? Do you think there will be an incentive for these workers to return to work? I mean what fool would go back to work if they get the same wages for doing virtually nothing?

That's a very generalised view.
Would you have chosen not to work through this?
Most didn't have a choice. Lots of workers will probably go back to less hours and less money. Or may not have a job. Some may be fucked financially.
I've heard comment from someone complaining that while they work their taxes are paying for the furlough scheme. A very right wing view.

In fairness, that is true.

Let's be very clear here. As he's shown before, Bunker is simply pissed off that people who can't (and those who won't) are getting paid while he had to continue to work. He has lost nothing.

In the past he has been out of work and claimed the dole. Somehow here he thinks this is different and that he's being hard done by. Not losing your job and being in a position to earn through all of this is somehow unfair him.

I've never been paid a full wage for doing relatively nothing in both those circumstances. If there is no work for teachers they should be on the €350 like everyone else. Why not?

As for losing nothing! I'll be well taxed to the hilt when this all comes to a halt! Some one has to pay for it! Working through all this will have been of little or no benefit! Once again why do shopkeepers and the like have to work and teachers get a free pass?

I'm sure the teachers aren't paying income tax or contributions either......

The difference is i will have worked 6 months more to pay my taxes! Anyway enjoy the long holiday to September. There will be a lot of pissed off Parents to contend with when you return.

I think you ll find that teachers will have been working from home , supervising key workers children for about 70 working days to the end of June. They are not contracted to work in July and August.

Working from home! Don't make me laugh! Doing what? Really, what are they doing?

Look in fairness if I was on full pay for doing nothing - I'd be laughing at all those out there keeping the economy going.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Olly on May 30, 2020, 08:42:03 PM
The downside though is that teachers will have to head back to work after 6 months off and that will be tough etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Lar Naparka on May 30, 2020, 08:51:59 PM
Quote from: Olly on May 30, 2020, 08:42:03 PM
The downside though is that teachers will have to head back to work after 6 months off and that will be tough etc.
h
I often thought Olly that teaching would be a great job entirely if only you could get rid of the bloody kids!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 08:59:15 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 30, 2020, 08:51:59 PM
Quote from: Olly on May 30, 2020, 08:42:03 PM
The downside though is that teachers will have to head back to work after 6 months off and that will be tough etc.
h
I often thought Olly that teaching would be a great job entirely if only you could get rid of the bloody kids!

Well if that's the case it's a great job at the moment!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on May 30, 2020, 09:10:58 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 08:38:06 PM
Quote from: delgany on May 30, 2020, 07:30:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 06:24:31 PM
Quote from: delgany on May 30, 2020, 05:17:43 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 05:06:07 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 30, 2020, 04:01:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 30, 2020, 07:37:51 AM
Quote from: ned on May 30, 2020, 06:20:10 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:30:28 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:17:27 AM
Bunker probably needs to get out in the good weather for a while.

I have no worry about getting out! I've been out and working these last 10 weeks! I see first hand every day the double standards!
I trust you're getting paid for what you do?
So why be stressing yourself worrying about others then?
Remember the Gospel story about those that only worked for the last hour getting paid as much as those hired earlier?
Relax and enjoy the good weather, the cleanegcair, cleaner rivers and streams, the greeness etc and be positive.

I am paid for what I do! Do you think worker should get paid a full wage for less than a full weeks work? Do you care? Do you think it matters? Do you think there will be an incentive for these workers to return to work? I mean what fool would go back to work if they get the same wages for doing virtually nothing?

That's a very generalised view.
Would you have chosen not to work through this?
Most didn't have a choice. Lots of workers will probably go back to less hours and less money. Or may not have a job. Some may be fucked financially.
I've heard comment from someone complaining that while they work their taxes are paying for the furlough scheme. A very right wing view.

In fairness, that is true.

Let's be very clear here. As he's shown before, Bunker is simply pissed off that people who can't (and those who won't) are getting paid while he had to continue to work. He has lost nothing.

In the past he has been out of work and claimed the dole. Somehow here he thinks this is different and that he's being hard done by. Not losing your job and being in a position to earn through all of this is somehow unfair him.

I've never been paid a full wage for doing relatively nothing in both those circumstances. If there is no work for teachers they should be on the €350 like everyone else. Why not?

As for losing nothing! I'll be well taxed to the hilt when this all comes to a halt! Some one has to pay for it! Working through all this will have been of little or no benefit! Once again why do shopkeepers and the like have to work and teachers get a free pass?

I'm sure the teachers aren't paying income tax or contributions either......

The difference is i will have worked 6 months more to pay my taxes! Anyway enjoy the long holiday to September. There will be a lot of pissed off Parents to contend with when you return.

I think you ll find that teachers will have been working from home , supervising key workers children for about 70 working days to the end of June. They are not contracted to work in July and August.

Working from home! Don't make me laugh! Doing what? Really, what are they doing?

Look in fairness if I was on full pay for doing nothing - I'd be laughing at all those out there keeping the economy going.
But teachers  are such easy targets. If there was a caste system they would be at the lowest, the untouchables, fit for cleaning urinals, street cleaning etc. but seeing as they can read and write, society offers them an opportunity to be a teacher, to  improve their worth. The  reality is they're ambition less, talentless and lacked the sense of adventure to emigrate,  instead resigned themselves to a dullard life.

Drone like, they peddle failure, resulting in generation after generation of Ireland's finest emerging after 5 years none the wiser about Gaelic or French etc.  apart from cupla focail.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on May 30, 2020, 09:38:08 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 30, 2020, 09:10:58 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 08:38:06 PM
Quote from: delgany on May 30, 2020, 07:30:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 06:24:31 PM
Quote from: delgany on May 30, 2020, 05:17:43 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 05:06:07 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 30, 2020, 04:01:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 30, 2020, 07:37:51 AM
Quote from: ned on May 30, 2020, 06:20:10 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:30:28 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:17:27 AM
Bunker probably needs to get out in the good weather for a while.

I have no worry about getting out! I've been out and working these last 10 weeks! I see first hand every day the double standards!
I trust you're getting paid for what you do?
So why be stressing yourself worrying about others then?
Remember the Gospel story about those that only worked for the last hour getting paid as much as those hired earlier?
Relax and enjoy the good weather, the cleanegcair, cleaner rivers and streams, the greeness etc and be positive.

I am paid for what I do! Do you think worker should get paid a full wage for less than a full weeks work? Do you care? Do you think it matters? Do you think there will be an incentive for these workers to return to work? I mean what fool would go back to work if they get the same wages for doing virtually nothing?

That's a very generalised view.
Would you have chosen not to work through this?
Most didn't have a choice. Lots of workers will probably go back to less hours and less money. Or may not have a job. Some may be fucked financially.
I've heard comment from someone complaining that while they work their taxes are paying for the furlough scheme. A very right wing view.

In fairness, that is true.

Let's be very clear here. As he's shown before, Bunker is simply pissed off that people who can't (and those who won't) are getting paid while he had to continue to work. He has lost nothing.

In the past he has been out of work and claimed the dole. Somehow here he thinks this is different and that he's being hard done by. Not losing your job and being in a position to earn through all of this is somehow unfair him.

I've never been paid a full wage for doing relatively nothing in both those circumstances. If there is no work for teachers they should be on the €350 like everyone else. Why not?

As for losing nothing! I'll be well taxed to the hilt when this all comes to a halt! Some one has to pay for it! Working through all this will have been of little or no benefit! Once again why do shopkeepers and the like have to work and teachers get a free pass?

I'm sure the teachers aren't paying income tax or contributions either......

The difference is i will have worked 6 months more to pay my taxes! Anyway enjoy the long holiday to September. There will be a lot of pissed off Parents to contend with when you return.

I think you ll find that teachers will have been working from home , supervising key workers children for about 70 working days to the end of June. They are not contracted to work in July and August.

Working from home! Don't make me laugh! Doing what? Really, what are they doing?

Look in fairness if I was on full pay for doing nothing - I'd be laughing at all those out there keeping the economy going.
But teachers  are such easy targets. If there was a caste system they would be at the lowest, the untouchables, fit for cleaning urinals, street cleaning etc. but seeing as they can read and write, society offers them an opportunity to be a teacher, to  improve their worth. The  reality is they're ambition less, talentless and lacked the sense of adventure to emigrate,  instead resigned themselves to a dullard life.

Drone like, they peddle failure, resulting in generation after generation of Ireland's finest emerging after 5 years none the wiser about Gaelic or French etc.  apart from cupla focail.

Such drivel. The majority of parents will appreciate the job teachers actually due , in normal circumstances , rather than casitigating them for every fk ill in society.

And most unfortunately the taught you how to read and write, so even you owe them a little bit of respect.

Enjoy the rest of your downtime
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 09:55:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 30, 2020, 09:10:58 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 08:38:06 PM
Quote from: delgany on May 30, 2020, 07:30:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 06:24:31 PM
Quote from: delgany on May 30, 2020, 05:17:43 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 05:06:07 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 30, 2020, 04:01:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 30, 2020, 07:37:51 AM
Quote from: ned on May 30, 2020, 06:20:10 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:55:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:30:28 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 12:21:07 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 12:17:27 AM
Bunker probably needs to get out in the good weather for a while.

I have no worry about getting out! I've been out and working these last 10 weeks! I see first hand every day the double standards!
I trust you're getting paid for what you do?
So why be stressing yourself worrying about others then?
Remember the Gospel story about those that only worked for the last hour getting paid as much as those hired earlier?
Relax and enjoy the good weather, the cleanegcair, cleaner rivers and streams, the greeness etc and be positive.

I am paid for what I do! Do you think worker should get paid a full wage for less than a full weeks work? Do you care? Do you think it matters? Do you think there will be an incentive for these workers to return to work? I mean what fool would go back to work if they get the same wages for doing virtually nothing?

That's a very generalised view.
Would you have chosen not to work through this?
Most didn't have a choice. Lots of workers will probably go back to less hours and less money. Or may not have a job. Some may be fucked financially.
I've heard comment from someone complaining that while they work their taxes are paying for the furlough scheme. A very right wing view.

In fairness, that is true.

Let's be very clear here. As he's shown before, Bunker is simply pissed off that people who can't (and those who won't) are getting paid while he had to continue to work. He has lost nothing.

In the past he has been out of work and claimed the dole. Somehow here he thinks this is different and that he's being hard done by. Not losing your job and being in a position to earn through all of this is somehow unfair him.

I've never been paid a full wage for doing relatively nothing in both those circumstances. If there is no work for teachers they should be on the €350 like everyone else. Why not?

As for losing nothing! I'll be well taxed to the hilt when this all comes to a halt! Some one has to pay for it! Working through all this will have been of little or no benefit! Once again why do shopkeepers and the like have to work and teachers get a free pass?

I'm sure the teachers aren't paying income tax or contributions either......

The difference is i will have worked 6 months more to pay my taxes! Anyway enjoy the long holiday to September. There will be a lot of pissed off Parents to contend with when you return.

I think you ll find that teachers will have been working from home , supervising key workers children for about 70 working days to the end of June. They are not contracted to work in July and August.

Working from home! Don't make me laugh! Doing what? Really, what are they doing?

Look in fairness if I was on full pay for doing nothing - I'd be laughing at all those out there keeping the economy going.
But teachers  are such easy targets. If there was a caste system they would be at the lowest, the untouchables, fit for cleaning urinals, street cleaning etc. but seeing as they can read and write, society offers them an opportunity to be a teacher, to  improve their worth. The  reality is they're ambition less, talentless and lacked the sense of adventure to emigrate,  instead resigned themselves to a dullard life.

Drone like, they peddle failure, resulting in generation after generation of Ireland's finest emerging after 5 years none the wiser about Gaelic or French etc.  apart from cupla focail.

I have nothing to do with the above statement. Teachers are important to society - especially good ones.

My only issue is Teachers getting full pay in the current environment for doing nothing!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on May 30, 2020, 11:09:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 05:39:11 PM
Dublin 7 jumping on the new 2020 version of bash public service workers by stopping their agreed payrise.
Shine lights and clap hands but don't pay the fkrs!!
Young FG upper class won't be getting their way on this one.
Rossfan must be a civil servant and failed maths in school.

The country is facing into an economic recession and he thinks we should increase public sector wages. How exactly do you think we pay for this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 11:27:28 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 30, 2020, 11:09:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 05:39:11 PM
Dublin 7 jumping on the new 2020 version of bash public service workers by stopping their agreed payrise.
Shine lights and clap hands but don't pay the fkrs!!
Young FG upper class won't be getting their way on this one.
Rossfan must be a civil servant and failed maths in school.

The country is facing into an economic recession and he thinks we should increase public sector wages. How exactly do you think we pay for this?

We are heading for a major meltdown. And our ''we've stayed beyond our welcome'' Government are throwing around money like confetti. Our Left wing opposition parties are even worse. looking for Social welfare to be risen up to €350. They are also looking for the €350 Covid to continue for infinity! Paul Murphy, Boyd Barrett and Mary Lou wants people to have free everything? (The Greens are keeping quiet these days. The Pandemic is a god send for the Environment).

I suppose they are appeasing to the masses. Who wants to hear you have to work, earn money and pay your way.

One thing you learn from this is most people don't want to work when there is a decent alternative. And this Pandemic offers a decent alternative!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 30, 2020, 11:58:08 PM
Just flicking through here, see stuff bout teachers, couldn't be bothered to read it all.. Teachers are well paid, get great hols and are getting it handy atm. That's just the way it is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 31, 2020, 12:01:38 AM
I wouldn't think teachers are well paid for what they do, they deserve more, public sector jobs are underpaid.

Private sector all the way!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 12:10:07 AM
Quote from: Main Street on May 30, 2020, 09:10:58 PM

But teachers  are such easy targets. If there was a caste system they would be at the lowest, the untouchables, fit for cleaning urinals, street cleaning etc. but seeing as they can read and write, society offers them an opportunity to be a teacher, to  improve their worth. The  reality is they're ambition less, talentless and lacked the sense of adventure to emigrate,  instead resigned themselves to a dullard life.

Drone like, they peddle failure, resulting in generation after generation of Ireland's finest emerging after 5 years none the wiser about Gaelic or French etc.  apart from cupla focail.
I've read some godawful shite in my time but I'm not sure any of it matched this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 31, 2020, 12:21:14 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 30, 2020, 11:09:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 05:39:11 PM
Dublin 7 jumping on the new 2020 version of bash public service workers by stopping their agreed payrise.
Shine lights and clap hands but don't pay the fkrs!!
Young FG upper class won't be getting their way on this one.
Rossfan must be a civil servant and failed maths in school.

The country is facing into an economic recession and he thinks we should increase public sector wages. How exactly do you think we pay for this?
The same way we paid private hospitals €350m for 3 months.
The same way were going to have to spend €Billions to stimulate the economy.
Pay increase is already approved .
I'm told its gross cost is €240m in a full year of which about €120m will be deducted so its net €120m to the Exchequer.
Another 20% at least will go back to the exchequer in VAT/Excise duty and the rest will go to the Irish private sector buying goods and services.
Ar scáth a céile a mharann na daoine.
Now remember the €350m to the Private Hospitals....
That will go to the Millionaire owners of said Hospitals who no doubt are "tax efficient"= off to the Cayman Islands and screw Paddy.
I am not a Civil servant by the way- have a humble post in the greater public service and the 2% will equate to around €300 in my pocket in a full year.
Might lodge it in the Cayman Islands......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on May 31, 2020, 01:20:40 AM
Scientist posits 'wild' hypothesis that cross immunity could slow pandemic
WHO expresses caution on whether there may be protection from prior exposure to some cold viruses; scientists examine if some people are more vulnerable to infection than thought
PARIS (AFP) — Could exposure to the coronaviruses that cause the common cold help protect against COVID-19? Is herd immunity closer than previously thought?

As nations lift lockdowns and experts worry about a potential second peak in cases, our ability to ward off infection is one of the hottest topics of scientific debate.

Ever since it became apparent that children were less vulnerable to COVID-19 early in the pandemic, scientists have speculated that the regular spread of benign viruses in places like schools could have bolstered their immune response to the latest coronavirus.

Now the idea of "cross immunity" among the broader population is gaining some ground
In a recent post on Twitter, Francois Balloux of University College London noted an "intriguing" lack of an immediate resurgence in COVID-19 cases following the easing of lockdowns in several countries.


Francois Balloux (Twitter)
Among the possible explanations, he noted, were seasonality and enduring social distancing practices.

But he posited a "wilder" hypothesis as well — that a "proportion of the population might have pre-existing immunity to #SARSCoV2, potentially due to prior exposure to 'common cold' coronaviruses."



Balloux said that might explain issues like cases where there is no transmission between spouses.

Earlier this month, an American study in the journal Cell suggested between 40 and 60 percent of the population could be immunized against COVID-19 without ever being exposed to it.

Researchers put this down to the action of protective cells, known as T lymphocytes, that had been activated by other coronaviruses responsible for colds.

But authors Alessandro Sette and Shane Crotty, of La Jolla Institute for Immunology, cautioned that the research did not suggest the epidemic was running out of steam.

"Clearly some individuals are more susceptible to the disease than others; after being infected some individuals have severe clinical symptoms and might even die, while others might show very little in terms of clinical symptoms," they told AFP by email.



"Our study suggests that preexisting immunity might be one of the factors to be considered; but at this point is simply an hypothesis that needs to be addressed with further experiments."

'Jury out'
The World Health Organization has also expressed caution over the issue.

"There is certainly some evidence with regard to T cells, that if you have a previous coronavirus infection you may be able to mount a more rapid response to COVID-19," said the WHO's Michael Ryan at a press conference this week.


Michael Ryan, then WHO Director of Global Alert and Response of the World Health Organization (WHO), at a press conference in Geneva, Switzerland, May 2, 2009. (AP/KEYSTONE/Martial Trezzini)
"But there's no empirical evidence that previous coronavirus infections protect you from infection with COVID-19. The jury is still very much out on that," he added.

However, Ryan said it was an encouraging sign for the development of vaccines.

"It gives us hope that we are getting the kinds of immune responses that may be helpful to long-term protection," he said.

New waves?
Another uncertainty is whether everyone is equally vulnerable to catching COVID-19.

A growing number of scientists think maybe not, raising questions over assumptions for what is known as herd immunity.

Gabriela Gomes, a researcher at the Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine, told AFP that it was wrong to assume that one person is as susceptible to the virus as another, or as exposed.

"We know little about the factors which underlie this individual variation. It could be cross-immunity with other coronaviruses, but it could also be other microbes, genetics, age, behavior, and most likely a combination of many factors," she said.

In theory this could explain why early estimates of the proportion of individuals who have been infected by the new coronavirus have been lower than expected — at around 5 to 10 percent of the total population in several countries.

It could also mean a lower threshold for herd immunity — when a sufficient part of the population has caught the virus, starving it of new hosts to spread to and thereby stopping the epidemic.

This threshold, commonly accepted as around 60 to 70 percent of the population infected, is what Sweden hoped to achieve by deciding against a strict lockdown.

But Gomes said that mathematical models on herd immunity often "ignore individual variation."

According to a study she co-authored, which has not yet been peer reviewed, the threshold might be reached when just 10 to 20 percent of the population has been infected.

Gomes said her research, which simulated the lifting of social distancing measures over the next six to 12 months, suggested that even if countries that had been severely affected are "closer to herd immunity," they would still see more localized outbreaks.

There could also be "what may seem like a second wave in those countries that have been less affected so far."
At the Pitie-Salpetriere hospital in Paris, professor of emergency medicine Yonathan Freund has noticed a sharp drop in the number of infections among doctors compared with the start of the epidemic.

"This is pure speculation but it could mean that people have natural or acquired immunity," he told AFP.

It is giving him confidence.

With infections staying low three weeks after France lifted its strict lockdown measures, he thinks that could mean "the second wave is not coming and probably will not happen" in the country.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 31, 2020, 08:10:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 31, 2020, 12:01:38 AM
I wouldn't think teachers are well paid for what they do, they deserve more, public sector jobs are underpaid.

Private sector all the way!

Possibly , not begrudging them, definitely appreciate them , and some are fantastic .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on May 31, 2020, 09:03:13 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2020, 11:31:36 AM
Quote from: ONeill on May 30, 2020, 11:02:45 AM
Seriously though. Teachers sitting around getting good tans doing fcuk all. And people like Bunker working their arses off. Something not right.

You forgot the bit about getting full pay while sitting around! They've kicked the can down the road until September! It's gas when you consider that most teenagers are hanging out in large groups with the weather being so good. And younger children are now not said to be a great risk.

Meanwhile Shop assistants, Postmen, Nurses and the like have to plough on encountering thousands of people every week!

But it's ok, Teachers have Parents are there to take up the their slack after a days work. They'll just send out an e-mail of what needs doing this week and pass the parcel onto them.

I hear they will be applying for the 350 euro themselves to cover the exam correction money they wont have access to this summer
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 31, 2020, 09:37:59 AM
Teachers and a phased return of kids should be happening now. No doubt come September they will still pick holes about why not to go back. The amount of kids out and about now is not normal. No reason st all why they couldn't be bank in school. I will say this. If we haven't higher numbers next weekends with all the parties gatherings etc I really can't see a second wave. It's going to be a very interesting week ahead looking to see do we spike.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 31, 2020, 09:49:16 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 31, 2020, 09:37:59 AM
Teachers and a phased return of kids should be happening now. No doubt come September they will still pick holes about why not to go back. The amount of kids out and about now is not normal. No reason st all why they couldn't be bank in school. I will say this. If we haven't higher numbers next weekends with all the parties gatherings etc I really can't see a second wave. It's going to be a very interesting week ahead looking to see do we spike.

Do you want them in or out of school? I'm confused, if they go to school in groups then it might spike it might not, if they are off school they might meet up and it might spike, you obviously want a scenario where groups meet up and no spike. That would prove your point that it's crushed, crushed I tell you
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on May 31, 2020, 09:56:49 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 31, 2020, 12:21:14 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 30, 2020, 11:09:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 30, 2020, 05:39:11 PM
Dublin 7 jumping on the new 2020 version of bash public service workers by stopping their agreed payrise.
Shine lights and clap hands but don't pay the fkrs!!
Young FG upper class won't be getting their way on this one.
Rossfan must be a civil servant and failed maths in school.

The country is facing into an economic recession and he thinks we should increase public sector wages. How exactly do you think we pay for this?
The same way we paid private hospitals €350m for 3 months.
The same way were going to have to spend €Billions to stimulate the economy.
Pay increase is already approved .
I'm told its gross cost is €240m in a full year of which about €120m will be deducted so its net €120m to the Exchequer.
Another 20% at least will go back to the exchequer in VAT/Excise duty and the rest will go to the Irish private sector buying goods and services.
Ar scáth a céile a mharann na daoine.
Now remember the €350m to the Private Hospitals....
That will go to the Millionaire owners of said Hospitals who no doubt are "tax efficient"= off to the Cayman Islands and screw Paddy.
I am not a Civil servant by the way- have a humble post in the greater public service and the 2% will equate to around €300 in my pocket in a full year.
Might lodge it in the Cayman Islands......
The pay increase has been approved. That doesn't mean that can't reverse it based on exceptional circumstances. How many in the private sector had to take unexpected pay cuts or were made unemployed? No one in the public sector had to worry about their job or taking a pay cut. At least you agree we have a hole in the public exchequer, you just don't care the pay rise makes it bigger. I suppose it is all about no.1

It might ONLY be €300 to you, but multiply that by 300,000 workers in the public's sector and that's real money
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 31, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
You just don't get it Dublin7.
The €90m you're so concerned about ( it will only be about €22m out of €90Bn* the State will likely spend this year) will be spent in the Irish economy mainly going to small local businesses etc.
You in your blindness would prefer austerity and cuts and local small businesses closing down just to get at public service workers.

* Including stimulus packages and the Q of people looking for State aid creches,  hotels, restaurants, farmers, sports bodies etc Local Councils ....

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 31, 2020, 02:13:44 PM
Well it's clear that people can't stick to 6 people at a distance of 2m so yes I do think having half these in school would help. That's why I think they should be back. But no the teachers won't go back. They should be made go back end off.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 31, 2020, 03:56:28 PM
So the new message is teachers are the bad guys?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 31, 2020, 04:25:18 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 31, 2020, 03:56:28 PM
So the new message is teachers are the bad guys?

No! Teachers are some of the best people in society I know. What I am saying is that if you have no work and you are in the private sector, You get €350 a week. Why is it not the same for Teachers? Why do they get 6 months Holidays on full pay? The problem we have with workers getting full pay doing nothing is there is no incentive to work.  No incentive to even try. While they have it easy we (the working community) have to balance child care and teaching while holding down a Job.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 31, 2020, 04:41:34 PM
Teachers do gave work, the only point of debate is whether they are doing it well.

Meanwhile, everyone at illegal party in S o sin infected with virus
https://www.businessinsider.com/birthday-party-in-spain-linked-to-outbreak-of-coronavirus-cases-2020-5?r=US&IR=T
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on May 31, 2020, 04:44:34 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 31, 2020, 04:25:18 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 31, 2020, 03:56:28 PM
So the new message is teachers are the bad guys?

No! Teachers are some of the best people in society I know. What I am saying is that if you have no work and you are in the private sector, You get €350 a week. Why is it not the same for Teachers? Why do they get 6 months Holidays on full pay? The problem we have with workers getting full pay doing nothing is there is no incentive to work.  No incentive to even try. While they have it easy we (the working community) have to balance child care and teaching while holding down a Job.

Teachers are not contracted to work in july and august .There contracts equate to 40 weeks .
Historically , teachers were paid from Sept to June. Many had summer jobs . In mid 80s, terms and conditions were changed to pay their 10 month contract over 12 months .

Schools in north open for supervising  key workers and providing home learning packs / online work.

Are schools in south completely closed and parents left to their own devices ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on May 31, 2020, 05:38:21 PM
Quote from: delgany on May 31, 2020, 04:44:34 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 31, 2020, 04:25:18 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 31, 2020, 03:56:28 PM
So the new message is teachers are the bad guys?

No! Teachers are some of the best people in society I know. What I am saying is that if you have no work and you are in the private sector, You get €350 a week. Why is it not the same for Teachers? Why do they get 6 months Holidays on full pay? The problem we have with workers getting full pay doing nothing is there is no incentive to work.  No incentive to even try. While they have it easy we (the working community) have to balance child care and teaching while holding down a Job.

Teachers are not contracted to work in july and august .There contracts equate to 40 weeks .
Historically , teachers were paid from Sept to June. Many had summer jobs . In mid 80s, terms and conditions were changed to pay their 10 month contract over 12 months .

Schools in north open for supervising  key workers and providing home learning packs / online work.

Are schools in south completely closed and parents left to their own devices ?

Yes, schools are closed. One email a week of coursework for the week! No correcting of course work. Parents left with the juggling act of trying to still work and do course work with kids.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on May 31, 2020, 06:16:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 31, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
You just don't get it Dublin7.
The €90m you're so concerned about ( it will only be about €22m out of €90Bn* the State will likely spend this year) will be spent in the Irish economy mainly going to small local businesses etc.
You in your blindness would prefer austerity and cuts and local small businesses closing down just to get at public service workers.

* Including stimulus packages and the Q of people looking for State aid creches,  hotels, restaurants, farmers, sports bodies etc Local Councils ....

Its €90m this year and an additional €260m next year the gov has to find to fund the pay rises.

I never suggested pay cuts,  (that only applies to the rest of us in the private sector) Public sector workers would still get the same salaries they always did.

I'm all for timulus packages to SME's. They can stimulate the economy and create employment. Public Sector pay rises won't create employment and lead to an increase in taxes to fund your pay rise
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 31, 2020, 06:17:27 PM
Another week over and another week whereby cases and deaths has dropped in the ROI.  if my calculations are correct 176 less cases than last week 10 less deaths. Certain counties are controling the virus well, Sligo 15 without a case, Kerry 12, Wexford 11 and Donegal 10 days.

Next Sunday will be three* weeks since some restrictions was lifted a possibility that cases could rise again but hopefully not.

* thanks for the correction Smurfy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 31, 2020, 06:48:45 PM
Dublin 7 you really are dense.
Public service pay rises will mean more money circulating and being spent in local small businesses.
The €260m you mentioned will be around €130m net cost to the Exchequer.
The spending of that €130m will generate around €35m in VAT and Excise etc fir the Exchequer.
The remaining €95m in the hands of local small businesses is the equivalent of c3,000 full time jobs whose PAYE etc will return around €8m to the Exchequer and save paying c€30m unemployment.
But some prefer Independent Newspapers/Young Fine Gael economics instead.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 31, 2020, 07:43:43 PM
Cunny it's 2 weeks tomorrow since the south lifted restrictions and doesn't seem to be a spike on the way. Purely going by other countries a big spike is highly u unlikely.
Denmark Austria Norway are now 7 weeks post lockdown and cases all down below 30 which was a drop week on week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 31, 2020, 08:18:40 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 31, 2020, 07:43:43 PM
Cunny it's 2 weeks tomorrow since the south lifted restrictions and doesn't seem to be a spike on the way. Purely going by other countries a big spike is highly u unlikely.
Denmark Austria Norway are now 7 weeks post lockdown and cases all down below 30 which was a drop week on week.

2 weeks before signs, so give it another week ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 31, 2020, 08:22:21 PM
Feels like we are talking about this spike this months. O wait
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 31, 2020, 08:27:28 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 31, 2020, 08:22:21 PM
Feels like we are talking about this spike this months. O wait

I suppose without the lockdown we'd have had the same number of deaths. Oh wait
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 31, 2020, 08:35:25 PM
Have you proof that we would have had?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 31, 2020, 08:47:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 31, 2020, 08:35:25 PM
Have you proof that we would have had?
Have you proof we wouldn't have?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 31, 2020, 08:55:32 PM
No I don't
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 31, 2020, 09:34:06 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 31, 2020, 08:55:32 PM
No I don't

So did people die of Covid or was it something else?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 01, 2020, 09:23:40 AM
The Americans aren't paying too much attention to the oul social distancing during these riots.

Putin and Xi must be on the phone laughing that fate has taken the heat off them big time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 01, 2020, 10:06:25 AM
Yes the died of Covid along with probably other underlying issues.
When is this second wave coming? Waiting forever
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 01, 2020, 10:21:05 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 01, 2020, 10:06:25 AM
Yes the died of Covid along with probably other underlying issues.
When is this second wave coming? Waiting forever

For all our sakes I hope it doesn't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on June 01, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 31, 2020, 06:48:45 PM
Dublin 7 you really are dense.
Public service pay rises will mean more money circulating and being spent in local small businesses.
The €260m you mentioned will be around €130m net cost to the Exchequer.
The spending of that €130m will generate around €35m in VAT and Excise etc fir the Exchequer.
The remaining €95m in the hands of local small businesses is the equivalent of c3,000 full time jobs whose PAYE etc will return around €8m to the Exchequer and save paying c€30m unemployment.
But some prefer Independent Newspapers/Young Fine Gael economics instead.

If you give it to SME's they create employment. Every single public servant is going to spend every cent then? None of them will put it in savings? Very public spirited of you all!

Lower earners actually contribute more to the economy as they spend all their money and can't afford to save for the future.

Is there training provided for your self entitlement or is it just engrained in public sevices culture?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 01, 2020, 12:04:35 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on June 01, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 31, 2020, 06:48:45 PM
Dublin 7 you really are dense.
Public service pay rises will mean more money circulating and being spent in local small businesses.
The €260m you mentioned will be around €130m net cost to the Exchequer.
The spending of that €130m will generate around €35m in VAT and Excise etc fir the Exchequer.
The remaining €95m in the hands of local small businesses is the equivalent of c3,000 full time jobs whose PAYE etc will return around €8m to the Exchequer and save paying c€30m unemployment.
But some prefer Independent Newspapers/Young Fine Gael economics instead.

If you give it to SME's they create employment. Every single public servant is going to spend every cent then? None of them will put it in savings? Very public spirited of you all!

Lower earners actually contribute more to the economy as they spend all their money and can't afford to save for the future.

Is there training provided for your self entitlement or is it just engrained in public sevices culture?

At what point do they spend their savings? Or does it just get shoved into their coffin? Spend save it all goes in the end
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 01, 2020, 12:30:28 PM
Vast majority of public employees are lower income and spend locally.
Our Dublin 7 friend showed his true colours with his last sentence  ;) just a blinkered public service basher.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 01, 2020, 05:32:19 PM
No new deaths in Spain and 60 odd cases in a population of 50 million is very encouraging news and they are into week 6 of reopening. This virus is very unpredictable. A genuine question here. How does Spain go from 40/50 deaths a day to 2 a day now down to 0 within 2 weeks? I read somewhere they count in real time maybe a day or 2 behind whereas over here deaths can go back 10 days or something along those lines. Genuine question
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 01, 2020, 05:50:26 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 01, 2020, 05:32:19 PM
No new deaths in Spain and 60 odd cases in a population of 50 million is very encouraging news and they are into week 6 of reopening. This virus is very unpredictable. A genuine question here. How does Spain go from 40/50 deaths a day to 2 a day now down to 0 within 2 weeks? I read somewhere they count in real time maybe a day or 2 behind whereas over here deaths can go back 10 days or something along those lines. Genuine question


Warmer country less cold and flu's about that coughing and sneezing would have spread more? People being more cautious with social distancing?

Or it's just dying off, how many people died in Spain?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 01, 2020, 05:53:42 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 01, 2020, 05:32:19 PM
No new deaths in Spain and 60 odd cases in a population of 50 million is very encouraging news and they are into week 6 of reopening. This virus is very unpredictable. A genuine question here. How does Spain go from 40/50 deaths a day to 2 a day now down to 0 within 2 weeks? I read somewhere they count in real time maybe a day or 2 behind whereas over here deaths can go back 10 days or something along those lines. Genuine question

Once you bring the old folks homes under control the deaths fall quickly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 01, 2020, 06:14:16 PM
Up to 30000 or above died in Spain. Just thought it was a very sharp fall from 50/60 only last week down to 2/3s last week then none today. You would have thought it would be a gradual fall and then hit zero deaths around September. Great to see. And I will say yes lockdown worked. Also warmer weather less coughing etc good points.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on June 01, 2020, 06:14:59 PM
90% of covid related deaths in 26 the people had an underlying health condition and the median age is 83 . (Read that on RTÉ site)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 01, 2020, 08:04:11 PM
Two Italians doctors/scientists have reported the virus is weakening which should be massive news
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on June 01, 2020, 08:17:38 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 01, 2020, 08:04:11 PM
Two Italians doctors/scientists have reported the virus is weakening which should be massive news

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2020/06/coronavirus-losing-potency-top-italian-doctor-200601044959952.html

Yep was just reading that seems very encouraging
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on June 01, 2020, 08:36:24 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on June 01, 2020, 08:17:38 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 01, 2020, 08:04:11 PM
Two Italians doctors/scientists have reported the virus is weakening which should be massive news

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2020/06/coronavirus-losing-potency-top-italian-doctor-200601044959952.html

Yep was just reading that seems very encouraging

Was reading the same story from a different paper

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8376105/Is-Covid-19-really-potent.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on June 01, 2020, 08:48:23 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on June 01, 2020, 08:36:24 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on June 01, 2020, 08:17:38 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 01, 2020, 08:04:11 PM
Two Italians doctors/scientists have reported the virus is weakening which should be massive news

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2020/06/coronavirus-losing-potency-top-italian-doctor-200601044959952.html

Yep was just reading that seems very encouraging

Was reading the same story from a different paper

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8376105/Is-Covid-19-really-potent.html

Mad isn't it , like who the hell do you believe . Social distancing is near out the window at this stage in Ireland , I'm looking at it all weekend , hundreds gathering , thousands today in Dublin City centre protesting . Be an interesting few weeks .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 01, 2020, 08:52:16 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on June 01, 2020, 08:17:38 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 01, 2020, 08:04:11 PM
Two Italians doctors/scientists have reported the virus is weakening which should be massive news

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2020/06/coronavirus-losing-potency-top-italian-doctor-200601044959952.html

Yep was just reading that seems very encouraging

That is *normally* what happens to viruses when they mutate.

However, this is very much a double edge sword. If its starting to mutate, it could mutate in a worse direction as well... if it starts to become genetically agile whilst maintaining, or even increasing, lethality it could also throw out all hopes of an effective vaccine too.

Decidedly mixed feelings on this.

On one side is the economic damage of keeping things shuttered, on the other the danger of opening up too soon and allowing the virus further chances to dangerously mutate.

On the above, I would balance in favour of the economy - you can't prove something doesn't exist and no point continuing the car crash economy trying to. BUT - that does not mean reopening immediately as we are still dealing with the original form of it (has that new form even spread from Italy to Ireland yet? No guarantee what is on the island will mutate in the same fashion).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 01, 2020, 09:15:21 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 01, 2020, 08:52:16 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on June 01, 2020, 08:17:38 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 01, 2020, 08:04:11 PM
Two Italians doctors/scientists have reported the virus is weakening which should be massive news

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2020/06/coronavirus-losing-potency-top-italian-doctor-200601044959952.html

Yep was just reading that seems very encouraging

That is *normally* what happens to viruses when they mutate.

However, this is very much a double edge sword. If its starting to mutate, it could mutate in a worse direction as well... if it starts to become genetically agile whilst maintaining, or even increasing, lethality it could also throw out all hopes of an effective vaccine too.

Decidedly mixed feelings on this.

On one side is the economic damage of keeping things shuttered, on the other the danger of opening up too soon and allowing the virus further chances to dangerously mutate.

On the above, I would balance in favour of the economy - you can't prove something doesn't exist and no point continuing the car crash economy trying to. BUT - that does not mean reopening immediately as we are still dealing with the original form of it (has that new form even spread from Italy to Ireland yet? No guarantee what is on the island will mutate in the same fashion).

The virus wants to live. Killing it's hosts isn't the way to do that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on June 01, 2020, 09:19:32 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on June 01, 2020, 08:48:23 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on June 01, 2020, 08:36:24 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on June 01, 2020, 08:17:38 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 01, 2020, 08:04:11 PM
Two Italians doctors/scientists have reported the virus is weakening which should be massive news

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2020/06/coronavirus-losing-potency-top-italian-doctor-200601044959952.html

Yep was just reading that seems very encouraging

Was reading the same story from a different paper

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8376105/Is-Covid-19-really-potent.html

Mad isn't it , like who the hell do you believe . Social distancing is near out the window at this stage in Ireland , I'm looking at it all weekend , hundreds gathering , thousands today in Dublin City centre protesting . Be an interesting few weeks .

Earlier in this thread i praised the restraint I was seeing at my local beach but this weekend it all went out the window. Thronged with people, no social distancing and no guards. I hope it is weakening as the reports above suggest as the masses are losing patience
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 01, 2020, 09:27:25 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 01, 2020, 09:19:32 PM
Earlier in this thread i praised the restraint I was seeing at my local beach but this weekend it all went out the window. Thronged with people, no social distancing and no guards. I hope it is weakening as the reports above suggest as the masses are losing patience

The Guards facilitated thousands gathering in Dublin today, which was obviously agreed in some way by the government. The British government lost the battle with Cummings, the Irish government did so today. They had a mixed performance until this but they have chosen to throw it away  :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 01, 2020, 09:33:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 01, 2020, 09:27:25 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 01, 2020, 09:19:32 PM
Earlier in this thread i praised the restraint I was seeing at my local beach but this weekend it all went out the window. Thronged with people, no social distancing and no guards. I hope it is weakening as the reports above suggest as the masses are losing patience

The Guards facilitated thousands gathering in Dublin today, which was obviously agreed in some way by the government. The British government lost the battle with Cummings, the Irish government did so today. They had a mixed performance until this but they have chosen to throw it away  :(

My only question here. At what covid levels would you consider it okay, and then highly satisfactory,  for the Irish Government to ignore a mass gathering?

Do they need to wait for no new cases for a day? No deaths for a week?

Not saying you're wrong by the way. I just don't think there is a right answer on this one.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on June 01, 2020, 10:08:24 PM
To quote the Shawshank Redemption

''Get busy living, or get busy dying."


"I have to remind myself that some birds aren't meant to be caged."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 02, 2020, 09:51:06 AM
Thousands in Dublin marching yesterday which got the go ahead from the government.
Hundreds upon hundreds of youngsters gathering at beaches beauty spots yesterday in the north.
Now this is the reason that we need to get kids back to school and people back to work. To many people lying around doing nothing. A local park near me was bunged yesterday.
And suppose I'm contradicting myself here but the chances of getting Covid outside is as follows
2 metres = 1.3%
1 metre = 2.6%
No social distancing = 13%
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on June 02, 2020, 10:20:58 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 02, 2020, 09:51:06 AM
Thousands in Dublin marching yesterday which got the go ahead from the government.
Hundreds upon hundreds of youngsters gathering at beaches beauty spots yesterday in the north.
Now this is the reason that we need to get kids back to school and people back to work. To many people lying around doing nothing. A local park near me was bunged yesterday.
And suppose I'm contradicting myself here but the chances of getting Covid outside is as follows
2 metres = 1.3%
1 metre = 2.6%
No social distancing = 13%
Where did you get these figures?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 02, 2020, 10:42:43 AM
It was only a matter of time really, people did do their best for 10-12 weeks but the lockdown is over, pictures over the last few days pretty much confirm it both sides of the border. Once people see X do it, they will down tools too.

What can be done now realistically?

Obviously Govts are going to be worried about opening all up too soon, they'll drag it all out as long as they can but that's really the only play they have left I suppose in a round about way to enforce distancing but they know time is ticking on that.

But then that will lead to more ridiculous scenes on beaches etc (providing weather keeps). You wonder what is the point of cutting off your nose to spite your face really.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 02, 2020, 11:26:50 AM
As you say hey we all done our bit for 10-12 weeks and people are now getting fed up. With beaches and parks open it was always going to happen with no where else to go
Now a better strategy would have been maybe open up more things and spread the load if you know what I mean. More shops open means instead of everyone gathering to parks and beaches people would have went shopping. Just a thought.
People need to get back to work if they have any
It maybe late in the year now but I still think schools should be open at a 40% capacity
GAA pitches is also massive and should open for kids to go for a kickabout.
The big thing now is the social distance. Everyone needs to just be aware of what's around them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 11:28:16 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 01, 2020, 09:15:21 PM
The virus wants to live. Killing it's hosts isn't the way to do that.

Yes and no. Killing its hosts so quickly that it cannot pass on isn't the way to do that.

After passing on to enough people, it doesn't really matter about the original host.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 02, 2020, 02:10:29 PM
The scenes in Dublin yesterday were a disgrace. Show your support when this is over
Harris and Varadkar haven't condemned it on any media platform
Bluffers both of them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on June 02, 2020, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 02, 2020, 10:20:58 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 02, 2020, 09:51:06 AM
Thousands in Dublin marching yesterday which got the go ahead from the government.
Hundreds upon hundreds of youngsters gathering at beaches beauty spots yesterday in the north.
Now this is the reason that we need to get kids back to school and people back to work. To many people lying around doing nothing. A local park near me was bunged yesterday.
And suppose I'm contradicting myself here but the chances of getting Covid outside is as follows
2 metres = 1.3%
1 metre = 2.6%
No social distancing = 13%
Where did you get these figures?

I'd be interested in this too. If not accurate, spreading this sort of misinformation is a very dangerous thing to be at right now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 02, 2020, 02:40:01 PM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8377151/Keeping-one-metre-apart-slashes-risk-catching-coronavirus-80.html
And numerous other outlets
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on June 02, 2020, 03:00:03 PM
Altnagelvin ICU today: 0 confirmed, 0 suspected
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 02, 2020, 03:21:39 PM
The virus has affectively been beat in the North. 4 new cases confirmed with 0 needing hospital treatment. The deaths are likely to stay below 3/4 for a week or so then 0 consistently over a period. That's some turnaround in 2 weeks even. I do believe reading reports picking up the infection virus outside is almost impossible. It's inside where it generates.
JOG where you getting the info. Great news
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 03:30:25 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 02, 2020, 02:40:01 PM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8377151/Keeping-one-metre-apart-slashes-risk-catching-coronavirus-80.html
And numerous other outlets

The danger of trying to reduce a world of greys to a few numbers!


So, your a metre away from someone for how long? Is it outdoors? Are you at a common table touching common surfaces? What about climatic effects?

Even the source doesn't contain that info - it was all smeared out when they cross compared the data.

https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9.pdf


A lot of work went into that paper. Yet still not enough for it to be effective. Their inputs needed to be better parsed before their analyses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 03:32:20 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 02, 2020, 03:21:39 PM
The virus has affectively been beat in the North. 4 new cases confirmed with 0 needing hospital treatment. The deaths are likely to stay below 3/4 for a week or so then 0 consistently over a period. That's some turnaround in 2 weeks even.

A couple of weeks of that and I'm sure we can open things up an awful long way, with a good track/trace system to catch new infections from asymptomatic carriers we should be in a good place.


I suppose attention then needs to turn to where it'll likely come in from outside source - chief among them being flights from England.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 02, 2020, 03:49:14 PM
That's it radio. What both governments should now be working on day and night is maybe testing everyone that comes into airports. Or taking temperatures on arrival that could be a start. Throw everything into that as realistically that's the only way that it will spread again. It along with the tracking system. Long way to go but things are certainly looking better. We have shown the British government up for what they are. SHITE
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 02, 2020, 04:07:14 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 02, 2020, 03:49:14 PM
That's it radio. What both governments should now be working on day and night is maybe testing everyone that comes into airports. Or taking temperatures on arrival that could be a start. Throw everything into that as realistically that's the only way that it will spread again. It along with the tracking system. Long way to go but things are certainly looking better. We have shown the British government up for what they are. SHITE

British government have definitely got the virus response wrong. However, so far the economic response has been pretty good. If they continue the economy might be ok. A lot of other countries are in real trouble.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 02, 2020, 04:29:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 03:32:20 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 02, 2020, 03:21:39 PM
The virus has affectively been beat in the North. 4 new cases confirmed with 0 needing hospital treatment. The deaths are likely to stay below 3/4 for a week or so then 0 consistently over a period. That's some turnaround in 2 weeks even.

A couple of weeks of that and I'm sure we can open things up an awful long way, with a good track/trace system to catch new infections from asymptomatic carriers we should be in a good place.


I suppose attention then needs to turn to where it'll likely come in from outside source - chief among them being flights from England.

Thats going to be key - once you contain it on the island the key is to keep it out.

The problem is the leaders on this island will show little appetite to test/take temps at airports and ports.

Surely this should be the priority
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on June 02, 2020, 05:23:07 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 02, 2020, 04:29:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 03:32:20 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 02, 2020, 03:21:39 PM
The virus has affectively been beat in the North. 4 new cases confirmed with 0 needing hospital treatment. The deaths are likely to stay below 3/4 for a week or so then 0 consistently over a period. That's some turnaround in 2 weeks even.

A couple of weeks of that and I'm sure we can open things up an awful long way, with a good track/trace system to catch new infections from asymptomatic carriers we should be in a good place.


I suppose attention then needs to turn to where it'll likely come in from outside source - chief among them being flights from England.

Thats going to be key - once you contain it on the island the key is to keep it out.

The problem is the leaders on this island will show little appetite to test/take temps at airports and ports.

Surely this should be the priority

The tourist industry is probably the reason.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 05:25:26 PM
Quote from: five points on June 02, 2020, 05:23:07 PM
The tourist industry is probably the reason.

It is - but surely its less damaging for the rest of the economy to support a semi-shuttered tourist sector than to go through this again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2020, 05:38:41 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 05:25:26 PM
Quote from: five points on June 02, 2020, 05:23:07 PM
The tourist industry is probably the reason.

It is - but surely its less damaging for the rest of the economy to support a semi-shuttered tourist sector than to go through this again.

If people bought their own kits and tested before and when home surely that would suffice ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on June 02, 2020, 05:49:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 05:25:26 PM
Quote from: five points on June 02, 2020, 05:23:07 PM
The tourist industry is probably the reason.

It is - but surely its less damaging for the rest of the economy to support a semi-shuttered tourist sector than to go through this again.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I might be if my job or business was on the line.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 02, 2020, 05:50:52 PM
Much are the tests and how long do you have to wait on your results
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2020, 05:52:36 PM
Less than £25 quid I heard, quick enough turn around 2/3 days

I suppose the problem is when does it register you are positive?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 02, 2020, 07:21:48 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 02, 2020, 04:29:05 PM
Thats going to be key - once you contain it on the island the key is to keep it out.
The problem is the leaders on this island will show little appetite to test/take temps at airports and ports.
Surely this should be the priority

Temps are not much help for this dose.
I expect the 26 county crowd would be happy to test if a suitably quick process could be identified, the NI crowd would want their precious union.

10 new cases in total on the island, this is definite progress if it sticks it for the week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 02, 2020, 08:40:51 PM
Hopefully our low figure isn't a result of delayed reports due to the Bank Holiday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2020, 08:50:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 02, 2020, 08:40:51 PM
Hopefully our low figure isn't a result of delayed reports due to the Bank Holiday.

Ours in the north would be spot on as we had our bank holiday last week  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 02, 2020, 09:03:39 PM
I think the south is a lag. It will shoot up tomorrow you would think.
Still and all positive steps forward.
The next week will tell us a lot
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on June 03, 2020, 12:13:21 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 02, 2020, 08:40:51 PM
Hopefully our low figure isn't a result of delayed reports due to the Bank Holiday.

I imagine it will be up tomorrow alright but an increasing amount of evidence that this thing may be burning itself out slowly. Provided people are sensible.

Will be interesting to see if all the mass gatherings recently gives it a second wind in certain places.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 03, 2020, 12:53:00 AM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on June 03, 2020, 12:13:21 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 02, 2020, 08:40:51 PM
Hopefully our low figure isn't a result of delayed reports due to the Bank Holiday.

I imagine it will be up tomorrow alright but an increasing amount of evidence that this thing may be burning itself out slowly. Provided people are sensible.

Will be interesting to see if all the mass gatherings recently gives it a second wind in certain places.

Yet Hong Kong had no cases for a week and then 9 pop up in an apartment block and they have extended restrictitons that were going to end shortly. Eternal vigilance is needed to stamp on these outbreaks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on June 03, 2020, 01:44:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 02, 2020, 04:07:14 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 02, 2020, 03:49:14 PM
That's it radio. What both governments should now be working on day and night is maybe testing everyone that comes into airports. Or taking temperatures on arrival that could be a start. Throw everything into that as realistically that's the only way that it will spread again. It along with the tracking system. Long way to go but things are certainly looking better. We have shown the British government up for what they are. SHITE

British government have definitely got the virus response wrong. However, so far the economic response has been pretty good. If they continue the economy might be ok. A lot of other countries are in real trouble.

The set of economic packages is about the only thing they've got right, although all bets are off it a second wave hits and considering the numbers of daily infections they report that is not beyond the realms of possibility.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 03, 2020, 02:06:45 PM
Sweden better than Ireland? Naw thanks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on June 03, 2020, 02:14:13 PM
Quote from: five points on June 02, 2020, 05:49:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 05:25:26 PM
Quote from: five points on June 02, 2020, 05:23:07 PM
The tourist industry is probably the reason.

It is - but surely its less damaging for the rest of the economy to support a semi-shuttered tourist sector than to go through this again.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I might be if my job or business was on the line.

What would be the logic behind that though?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 03, 2020, 02:20:24 PM
Hotels etc due to open July 20 I would say things will be very quiet that week so your talking July 27th that's 4 weeks realistically to make enough money to keep you going until March 2021
I can see lots of places going under from September on
Cafe shops pubs restaurants alike
8 more deaths in the north today only 8 new cases
Of the 8 deaths 7 were from weeks ago as far back as April 18 only 1 from yesterday.
A long way to go but certainly improving
The low cases is great to see
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on June 03, 2020, 03:01:14 PM
Penny has finally dropped it seems for Sweden. With their top epidemiologist Anders Tegnell admitting that too many people have died in their country they should have done more to prevent the spread of the disease.

They will now use start using the "test, trace and isolate" to combat the virus while the so called herd-immunity strategy is scrapped.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on June 03, 2020, 03:17:01 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 03, 2020, 03:01:14 PM
Penny has finally dropped it seems for Sweden. With their top epidemiologist Anders Tegnell admitting that too many people have died in their country they should have done more to prevent the spread of the disease.

They will now use start using the "test, trace and isolate" to combat the virus while the so called herd-immunity strategy is scrapped.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8379769/Professor-Lockdown-Neil-Ferguson-admits-greatest-respect-Sweden.html

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on June 03, 2020, 03:31:06 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 03, 2020, 03:17:01 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 03, 2020, 03:01:14 PM
Penny has finally dropped it seems for Sweden. With their top epidemiologist Anders Tegnell admitting that too many people have died in their country they should have done more to prevent the spread of the disease.

They will now use start using the "test, trace and isolate" to combat the virus while the so called herd-immunity strategy is scrapped.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8379769/Professor-Lockdown-Neil-Ferguson-admits-greatest-respect-Sweden.html
"Sweden's coronavirus success" ah now...

As for the Daily mail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI&t=23s
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 03, 2020, 04:13:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 03, 2020, 02:06:45 PM
Sweden better than Ireland? Naw thanks

Indeed

https://fortune.com/2020/06/03/sweden-chose-a-looser-lockdown-the-scientist-behind-the-strategy-now-says-the-death-toll-is-too-high/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 03, 2020, 04:14:10 PM
Interesting viewing outside City Hall this afternoon.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on June 03, 2020, 04:17:40 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 03, 2020, 02:20:24 PM
8 more deaths in the north today only 8 new cases
Of the 8 deaths 7 were from weeks ago as far back as April 18 only 1 from yesterday.
I saw this on the BBC website however the Chief Scientific Officer said today that the north's R rate is somewhere between 0.8. and 1.  How can the R rate be as high as that with new cases for the past week or so being so low?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: the goal was on on June 03, 2020, 05:24:01 PM
if we knew exactly how R rate is worked out it would help. Michelle and arlene had no clue the other day when asked at a press conference. Considering they refer to this  daily it speaks volumes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 03, 2020, 05:30:48 PM

47 cases in the 26 today, a lot more than yesterday.

It seems that Monaghan, the last county in the 26 to get the disease, is now the epicentre.
Always a bit behind everyone else.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 03, 2020, 06:03:58 PM
One GP in Monaghan had 8 cases over the weekend.

I wonder what the right wingers who were trumpeting Sweden think now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 03, 2020, 06:30:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 03, 2020, 05:30:48 PM

47 cases in the 26 today, a lot more than yesterday.


More yes but the last 7 days average was 48 cases per day here . Under 800 active cases in the ROI is more encouraging news.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 06:53:52 PM
Quote from: mackers on June 03, 2020, 04:17:40 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 03, 2020, 02:20:24 PM
8 more deaths in the north today only 8 new cases
Of the 8 deaths 7 were from weeks ago as far back as April 18 only 1 from yesterday.
I saw this on the BBC website however the Chief Scientific Officer said today that the north's R rate is somewhere between 0.8. and 1.  How can the R rate be as high as that with new cases for the past week or so being so low?

Isnt the R rate up to 2 weeks behind the actual day it is announced on?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rich Ricci on June 03, 2020, 07:34:16 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 03, 2020, 04:14:10 PM
Interesting viewing outside City Hall this afternoon.....

Might as well just open the pubs and be done with it...

I know it's an important issue, but we're either observing social distancing or we aren't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 03, 2020, 07:57:33 PM
Quote from: Rich Ricci on June 03, 2020, 07:34:16 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 03, 2020, 04:14:10 PM
Interesting viewing outside City Hall this afternoon.....

Might as well just open the pubs and be done with it...

I know it's an important issue, but we're either observing social distancing or we aren't.

The Morning Star wil get you a pint
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 03, 2020, 09:41:33 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 03, 2020, 07:57:33 PM
Quote from: Rich Ricci on June 03, 2020, 07:34:16 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 03, 2020, 04:14:10 PM
Interesting viewing outside City Hall this afternoon.....

Might as well just open the pubs and be done with it...

I know it's an important issue, but we're either observing social distancing or we aren't.

The Morning Star wil get you a pint

The video of the clientele outside it tells you the lock down is well and truly over.

Along with the 'George North or something comment' it was embarassing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on June 03, 2020, 10:09:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 03, 2020, 06:03:58 PM
One GP in Monaghan had 8 cases over the weekend.

I wonder what the right wingers who were trumpeting Sweden think now?
Your asking too much
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 03, 2020, 10:35:22 PM
Ross where is this big spike we are waiting on?
New cases coming down day on day. The 7 day average down massively
The Easter spike
The sunny weather spike
What next?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2020, 11:46:29 PM
So England has brought in (by law) the 14 day quarantine rule if you are travelling from another country,  have the local governments (Wales, Scotland, N.I) followed suit?

How will that work here? If you travel to let's say Dublin for work purposes, must you quarantine for 2 weeks?

No bitching please about one land mass and same country blah blah

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 04, 2020, 12:07:42 AM
Doesn't apply to the "Common travel area" I thought???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 04, 2020, 01:20:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2020, 11:46:29 PM
How will that work here? If you travel to let's say Dublin for work purposes, must you quarantine for 2 weeks?

No bitching please about one land mass and same country blah blah

If you travel from Britain to Dublin the Irish government will as you to quarantine for 2 weeks and  rightly so,  alhough this is a bit hard on the Welsh and Scots. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 04, 2020, 01:33:23 AM
Today
Total deaths in the European Union (27 Member States) 324

Deaths in the United Kingdom  359

So England alone is more than the whole EU, including the chancers in Sweden.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 04, 2020, 07:06:22 AM
Barely a pub is open. Gyms aren't open. Restaurants aren't open. Mass participation events aren't happening. Sports are off. Churches are off. Barely a soul on public transport.The list goes on.

No one can tell if we have avoided a second spike or whether one will come so I don't know why someone thinks we are sure we have missed a second spike!!

England in general has been shocking and then tell people they have been successful. Quarantine people like there's more chance they have it coming from elsewhere. Muppets.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:01:03 PM
This is solely a disease of the over 70s and those with people underlying health conditions.

Open the economy.
Open the Schools.
Get back to work.

If ever there was an example that the game is up it is Belfast and London yesterday, same people probably called for the lockdown initially. Professional protesters I'd call them. I've also been in Monaghan a few times this week and it was busy. Scenes of beauty spots and beaches crammed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 04, 2020, 01:03:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:01:03 PM
This is solely a disease of the over 70s and those with people underlying health conditions.

Open the economy.
Open the Schools.
Get back to work.

If ever there was an example that the game is up it is Belfast and London yesterday, same people probably called for the lockdown initially. Professional protesters I'd call them. I've also been in Monaghan a few times this week and it was busy. Scenes of beauty spots and beaches crammed.

While I agree it looks like lockdown has come to an end to due peoples behaviour your first line is completely incorrect trailer
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on June 04, 2020, 01:08:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:01:03 PM
This is solely a disease of the over 70s and those with people underlying health conditions.

Open the economy.
Open the Schools.
Get back to work.

If ever there was an example that the game is up it is Belfast and London yesterday, same people probably called for the lockdown initially. Professional protesters I'd call them. I've also been in Monaghan a few times this week and it was busy. Scenes of beauty spots and beaches crammed.

Yeah, Monaghan has some deadly beaches and beauty spots.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:14:14 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 04, 2020, 01:03:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:01:03 PM
This is solely a disease of the over 70s and those with people underlying health conditions.

Open the economy.
Open the Schools.
Get back to work.

If ever there was an example that the game is up it is Belfast and London yesterday, same people probably called for the lockdown initially. Professional protesters I'd call them. I've also been in Monaghan a few times this week and it was busy. Scenes of beauty spots and beaches crammed.

While I agree it looks like lockdown has come to an end to due peoples behaviour your first line is completely incorrect trailer

It is 100% right, the number of deaths under 70 is tiny. The amount of deaths outside of the care home population is less than 50% for christ sake!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 04, 2020, 01:17:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:14:14 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 04, 2020, 01:03:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:01:03 PM
This is solely a disease of the over 70s and those with people underlying health conditions.

Open the economy.
Open the Schools.
Get back to work.

If ever there was an example that the game is up it is Belfast and London yesterday, same people probably called for the lockdown initially. Professional protesters I'd call them. I've also been in Monaghan a few times this week and it was busy. Scenes of beauty spots and beaches crammed.

While I agree it looks like lockdown has come to an end to due peoples behaviour your first line is completely incorrect trailer

It is 100% right, the number of deaths under 70 is tiny. The amount of deaths outside of the care home population is less than 50% for christ sake!

So you have just contradicted yourself - it is solely a disease of over 70's and then number of deaths under 70 is tiny.
Which is it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:21:13 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 04, 2020, 01:17:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:14:14 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 04, 2020, 01:03:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:01:03 PM
This is solely a disease of the over 70s and those with people underlying health conditions.

Open the economy.
Open the Schools.
Get back to work.

If ever there was an example that the game is up it is Belfast and London yesterday, same people probably called for the lockdown initially. Professional protesters I'd call them. I've also been in Monaghan a few times this week and it was busy. Scenes of beauty spots and beaches crammed.

While I agree it looks like lockdown has come to an end to due peoples behaviour your first line is completely incorrect trailer

It is 100% right, the number of deaths under 70 is tiny. The amount of deaths outside of the care home population is less than 50% for christ sake!

So you have just contradicted yourself - it is solely a disease of over 70's and then number of deaths under 70 is tiny.
Which is it?

f**k me. It's almost solely then. Talk about missing the point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 04, 2020, 01:39:24 PM
You must be back working then trailer?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 04, 2020, 01:42:37 PM
Agree about opening the economy and schools ASAP
Why do so many on here not get it
All the beaches and streets packed this 2 weeks would have been much smaller if children were in school. Take last Wednesday in Warrenpoint for example it was packed if those kids were in school wouldn't happen
If people were back working and shopping it takes crowds away from the one spot.
Spread the crowds out
Austria with a population of 9million eased lockdown April 10th. 6 new cases today
New Zealand allowing fans into stadiums from next week
Social distancing is key in all this. So important along with washing your hands
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:51:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 04, 2020, 01:39:24 PM
You must be back working then trailer?

More or less. Still working remotely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on June 04, 2020, 01:54:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:21:13 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 04, 2020, 01:17:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:14:14 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 04, 2020, 01:03:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:01:03 PM
This is solely a disease of the over 70s and those with people underlying health conditions.

Open the economy.
Open the Schools.
Get back to work.

If ever there was an example that the game is up it is Belfast and London yesterday, same people probably called for the lockdown initially. Professional protesters I'd call them. I've also been in Monaghan a few times this week and it was busy. Scenes of beauty spots and beaches crammed.

While I agree it looks like lockdown has come to an end to due peoples behaviour your first line is completely incorrect trailer

It is 100% right, the number of deaths under 70 is tiny. The amount of deaths outside of the care home population is less than 50% for christ sake!

So you have just contradicted yourself - it is solely a disease of over 70's and then number of deaths under 70 is tiny.
Which is it?

f**k me. It's almost solely then. Talk about missing the point.

Not sure who is "missing the point".

The real risk of this disease is sheer weight of numbers. I agree that percentage of death under 70 is small, but the higher the overall numbers, then the higher the Number of deaths overall including in under 70s. I
Failure to recognise this simple mathematical equation is why UK's response to the virus has been catastrophic.

Also , statistics around chronological age have to be put in context . Most over 70s that I know live fulfilling happy productive lives, and their loss would be enormous to their families and society. Similarly for those with "underlying disease ". However it appears that the vast majority of deaths are amongst the most frail, many of whom have already "do not resuscitate" requests in place. For these vulnerable people  , their priority is keeping comfortable, as opposed to keeping alive. For some reason this very important fact seems to be ignored by politicians and the media .
Any "opening up" has to be cautious and include continued awareness around hygiene and distancing , but especially testing and tracing to ensure we don't see another escalation in numbers.
Numbers are now getting so low , that testing those small numbers with viral symptoms , and early detection of new infections, should allow society to return to near normal when the time is right. In terms of health , I fear the risk of the virus has now been surpassed by the health risk of lockdown( diseases of inactivity/isolation/poverty, and delayed diagnosis/treatment of other diseases such as cancer and heart disease) So the sooner we open up, as safely as possible, the better.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 04, 2020, 02:06:14 PM
Yes it would be better packed the schools as apposed to beaches
That's where kids get an education
Schools not beaches
What part did you not understand?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on June 04, 2020, 02:14:13 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 04, 2020, 02:09:10 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 04, 2020, 02:06:14 PM
Yes it would be better packed the schools as apposed to beaches
That's where kids get an education
Schools not beaches
What part did you not understand?
The part about what they are going to achieve educationally in the next 15 days or so of school. The part where that benefit outweighs the danger of them returning to school.

And the part where the risk of spread indoors is much greater than outdoors
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 04, 2020, 02:33:11 PM
Could have been back Monday last leaving 4 weeks
Now I wouldn't suggest going back if people stuck to the rules but beaches packed and people treating it like the summer holidays already are just wrong
Wrong in so many ways
More positive news in the north
1 death which is desperate let me add and 9 new cases a back log of 24 cases added today from April the 2/3/4
We are defeating this virus make no mistake about that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 04, 2020, 02:42:55 PM
Punishment for going to school?
No
It's where our children should be
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on June 04, 2020, 03:38:30 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 04, 2020, 01:42:37 PM
Agree about opening the economy and schools ASAP
Why do so many on here not get it
All the beaches and streets packed this 2 weeks would have been much smaller if children were in school. Take last Wednesday in Warrenpoint for example it was packed if those kids were in school wouldn't happen
If people were back working and shopping it takes crowds away from the one spot.
Spread the crowds out
Austria with a population of 9million eased lockdown April 10th. 6 new cases today
New Zealand allowing fans into stadiums from next week
Social distancing is key in all this. So important along with washing your hands

Agree with above, most European countries have been back for a month or more.

Spoke with a good friend who is a national school teacher, he thinks that at this stage it is silly that there is not timeline to return.

Not living in Ireland, I asked him why was this the case.
He had two answers,

Caretaker government and an incoming opposition that does not want to make a decision that could cause another General election.

Lowest levels of ICU beds in Europe, forced the Government to take such harsh measures in the first place.

Somewhat simplistic maybe.

IMO if they don't open the county and relax the social distancing laws, the amount of small businesses, and hotels and Bars that will never open again, has the potential to cause high unemployment for many years to come


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on June 04, 2020, 03:47:45 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on June 04, 2020, 01:54:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:21:13 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 04, 2020, 01:17:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:14:14 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 04, 2020, 01:03:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:01:03 PM
This is solely a disease of the over 70s and those with people underlying health conditions.

Open the economy.
Open the Schools.
Get back to work.

If ever there was an example that the game is up it is Belfast and London yesterday, same people probably called for the lockdown initially. Professional protesters I'd call them. I've also been in Monaghan a few times this week and it was busy. Scenes of beauty spots and beaches crammed.

While I agree it looks like lockdown has come to an end to due peoples behaviour your first line is completely incorrect trailer

It is 100% right, the number of deaths under 70 is tiny. The amount of deaths outside of the care home population is less than 50% for christ sake!

So you have just contradicted yourself - it is solely a disease of over 70's and then number of deaths under 70 is tiny.
Which is it?

f**k me. It's almost solely then. Talk about missing the point.

Not sure who is "missing the point".

The real risk of this disease is sheer weight of numbers. I agree that percentage of death under 70 is small, but the higher the overall numbers, then the higher the Number of deaths overall including in under 70s. I
Failure to recognise this simple mathematical equation is why UK's response to the virus has been catastrophic.

Also , statistics around chronological age have to be put in context . Most over 70s that I know live fulfilling happy productive lives, and their loss would be enormous to their families and society. Similarly for those with "underlying disease ". However it appears that the vast majority of deaths are amongst the most frail, many of whom have already "do not resuscitate" requests in place. For these vulnerable people  , their priority is keeping comfortable, as opposed to keeping alive. For some reason this very important fact seems to be ignored by politicians and the media .
Any "opening up" has to be cautious and include continued awareness around hygiene and distancing , but especially testing and tracing to ensure we don't see another escalation in numbers.
Numbers are now getting so low , that testing those small numbers with viral symptoms , and early detection of new infections, should allow society to return to near normal when the time is right. In terms of health , I fear the risk of the virus has now been surpassed by the health risk of lockdown( diseases of inactivity/isolation/poverty, and delayed diagnosis/treatment of other diseases such as cancer and heart disease) So the sooner we open up, as safely as possible, the better.

I'll start by saying that we all want out of lock down, we all want our kids safely back at school and we want to be able to get back to a sense of normality. I personally think we are rushing things too much and are coming out of lock down too quickly without allowing enough time between the easing of measures and the length of time taken to judge the impact of that easing.

The fact that beaches were packed is not an argument to come out of lock down. It just shows the complete disregard some people have for the health and safety of others.  We wont know the impact of those packed beaches for 2/3 weeks. It could be enough to put the R number above 1 again and then we are all back in lock down as a result of these idiots. I've been speaking to a few people recently who think its great that its all over. I hope they are right, but we are on a knife edge.
Taking kids away from one packed location to put them into another packed location in school doesn't seem to very beneficial for me, at least not in terms of preventing the spread.

I absolutely disagree that this is a disease of the over 70s. I know 2 people who have died from Covid. One a lady in her 70s with underlying issues. One a lady in her 50s with no underlying issues.
The point was made earlier about over 50% of deaths here being in care homes, which is 100% correct. However, care homes by their nature are a small ecosystem of their own and so those figures and percentages need to be put into context. Care homes are a localised environment where all residents are in close contact and social distancing isn't always possible. Lack of PPE in care homes and a lack of proper strategy for care homes all contributed to care home deaths being so inflated and not necessarily because over 70s are only affected. All of these other circumstance exacerbated the problem. Hypothetically, if all care home residents lived in private accommodation like the rest of us, fewer could have been infected and fewer would have died. So the percentage of over 70s dying would have been much lower and the percentage of under 70s much higher.
We can't make a direct comparison between deaths in care homes and deaths in the rest of the population as the social environments we all find ourselves in are vastly different.
Its the type of comparison the tories are making to make people feel more comfortable.

With any disease, those people with other conditions are more likely to succumb to the cumulative effects and it is more likely that the over 70s have other conditions than the under 70s but that's all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 04, 2020, 04:06:43 PM
Saw on last nights News a 58 year old woman from Louth home after a serious dose of the Covid.
Spent 10 days in an induced coma in ICU as part of the "cure".
The coma was to allow them put her lying face down 16 hours a day to get oxygen to the front of her lungs.
Do the Smurfys or Trailers ever think of her and how many more had to go through the same process?

I'm all for getting things  "opened up" but slowly, steadily and SAFELY.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on June 04, 2020, 04:09:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 04, 2020, 04:06:43 PM
Saw on last nights News a 58 year old woman from Louth home after a serious dose of the Covid.
Spent 10 days in an induced coma in ICU as part of the "cure".
The coma was to allow them put her lying face down 16 hours a day to get oxygen to the front of her lungs.
Do the Smurfys or Trailers ever think of her and how many more had to go through the same process?

I'm all for getting things  "opened up" but slowly, steadily and SAFELY.

Spot on.
If we take our time and do it right, we are more likely to stay opened up and on top of this virus.
Otherwise we are just kicking the can down the road until the next lock down and even more deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on June 04, 2020, 04:09:47 PM
As has been shown here many, many times, the Smurfs and Trailers of this world don't bother much with the oul thinking.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 04, 2020, 04:09:51 PM
Brick what do you say of all the other European countries opening up quicker and no spike? They are leaving 2 weeks instead of 3
I do think of the poor people who have been affected by Covid. I absolutely feel for each and every one of those people.
Being to cautious will effectively close businesses which effectively will cause death also. I am not saying to open all up just speed things up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 04, 2020, 04:13:18 PM
There was a fairly high profile boy in antrim gaa at mid 40s was in the induced coma too. It is less likely to happen at the lower ages yes but you still would never know.

Brick your post above was spot on IMO.

We are going the right direction but there are still LOTS of restrictions in place even if lockdown has been eased so the thing needs phased like they're doing.

Even if there are elements breaching lockdown I would still imagine a high percentage of people aren't. The internet can be both a curse and a blessing and what tends to happen is that a few places have photos taken of them and then it is assumed everyone is behaving like that. Sometimes you can't even be sure if the photos are current though I think crawsfordburn for example is legit and obviously those BLM matters protests in the likes of belfast.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on June 04, 2020, 04:15:25 PM
See Spain's reporting of deaths has been declared absolute nonsense, further evidence, if any was needed at this stage, of the futility of comparing countries death rates
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 04, 2020, 04:28:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:21:13 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 04, 2020, 01:17:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:14:14 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 04, 2020, 01:03:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:01:03 PM
This is solely a disease of the over 70s and those with people underlying health conditions.

Open the economy.
Open the Schools.
Get back to work.

If ever there was an example that the game is up it is Belfast and London yesterday, same people probably called for the lockdown initially. Professional protesters I'd call them. I've also been in Monaghan a few times this week and it was busy. Scenes of beauty spots and beaches crammed.

While I agree it looks like lockdown has come to an end to due peoples behaviour your first line is completely incorrect trailer

It is 100% right, the number of deaths under 70 is tiny. The amount of deaths outside of the care home population is less than 50% for christ sake!

So you have just contradicted yourself - it is solely a disease of over 70's and then number of deaths under 70 is tiny.
Which is it?

f**k me. It's almost solely then. Talk about missing the point.

Im missing the point?

You are posting something that is completely incorrect and then twist it around to say its me?   ;D ;D

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on June 04, 2020, 04:56:16 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 04, 2020, 04:28:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:21:13 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 04, 2020, 01:17:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:14:14 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 04, 2020, 01:03:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 04, 2020, 01:01:03 PM
This is solely a disease of the over 70s and those with people underlying health conditions.

Open the economy.
Open the Schools.
Get back to work.

If ever there was an example that the game is up it is Belfast and London yesterday, same people probably called for the lockdown initially. Professional protesters I'd call them. I've also been in Monaghan a few times this week and it was busy. Scenes of beauty spots and beaches crammed.

While I agree it looks like lockdown has come to an end to due peoples behaviour your first line is completely incorrect trailer

It is 100% right, the number of deaths under 70 is tiny. The amount of deaths outside of the care home population is less than 50% for christ sake!

So you have just contradicted yourself - it is solely a disease of over 70's and then number of deaths under 70 is tiny.
Which is it?

f**k me. It's almost solely then. Talk about missing the point.

Im missing the point?

You are posting something that is completely incorrect and then twist it around to say its me?   ;D ;D

Its only completely incorrect in the realms of pedantry. He should have said "almost solely" but this is not a court of law and I got his meaning first time around.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 04, 2020, 05:53:21 PM
If I say "solely" it takes some leap to "know" I meant mostly......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 04, 2020, 06:32:42 PM
More good news in the South
Thursday briefing numbers dropping rapidly
R number still below 0.7
They are finding it harder to estimate the R number as cases are to low
Phase 2 gets the go ahead and some of phase 3 may be added details to follow tomorrow
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on June 04, 2020, 06:52:59 PM
Penny's opening back up on Monday,  the women will be happy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 04, 2020, 07:00:06 PM
Debenhams also reopening in newry
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on June 04, 2020, 09:06:05 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 04, 2020, 05:57:54 PM
An rud a scríobhann an Púca léann sé féin é.
😂 Maith  thú
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on June 04, 2020, 09:28:26 PM
Anyone watching this "life after the pandemic " on sky news ?

Good god , life is over as we knew according to these guys . I don't get all this craic , why can't we return to life as we knew it at some time , why is there such a determination with some that it will never be the same ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 04, 2020, 10:59:14 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on June 04, 2020, 09:28:26 PM
Anyone watching this "life after the pandemic " on sky news ?

Good god , life is over as we knew according to these guys . I don't get all this craic , why can't we return to life as we knew it at some time , why is there such a determination with some that it will never be the same ?

People love the uncertainty and disruption. Usually scientists and civil servants who are guaranteed a salary regardless. The  people will decide. And at this point they've stopped listening to the UK government and it would also appear the Irish government as well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on June 05, 2020, 12:23:33 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 04, 2020, 04:09:51 PM
Brick what do you say of all the other European countries opening up quicker and no spike? They are leaving 2 weeks instead of 3
I do think of the poor people who have been affected by Covid. I absolutely feel for each and every one of those people.
Being to cautious will effectively close businesses which effectively will cause death also. I am not saying to open all up just speed things up.

It's not comparable at all.
UK has been hit worse than any of this countries in Europe and didn't implement a lock down as quickly or as tightly as jtaly/spain/Germany.
So they are easing lock down from a different base line.
How about looking at some of the countries like South Korea that had an extraordinary response to this, almost back to normal but have seen outbreaks linked to schools.
UK government in particular has been a complete shambles in managing this crisis so you could have no confidence in anything they report.
NI assembly finally got their act together but still have a much higher death rate than roi.
The bigger risk, in my opinion, is not that we don't come out quick enough it's that we come out so quick we get the second phase and it's much worse.
The appetite of the population to enter a full lock down, if you could even call what we had a full lock down when you compare to other countries, should a second wave come will be very low. This will result in higher death rates.

My parents are in their 60s with underlying Conditions. If things are so safe right now, why are they and all the other people who are shielding still being kept in more of a lock down than the majority of us were ever in?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 05, 2020, 08:03:15 AM
Lockdown for the shielding ends on Monday
You made a few very good points and even for me I couldn't disagree with
The key with the unlocking of lockdown is track and trace. This needs to be really on the money as it basically puts out any fires
Agree the British government are shockingly poor
Everything they have done has been so poor to date
Lockdown late
Track trace scrapped early on
Face guards late
PPE LATE
Easing lockdown to early

The list goes on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 05, 2020, 08:24:32 AM
Not sure if there is an answer out there but why is England waiting until 15th June to make it mandatory to wear facemasks on public transport?

Is there a medical reason or whats the story? Suppose they did the same with quarantine (date in the future) but cant find an actual reason for the delay in doing it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on June 05, 2020, 08:30:47 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 05, 2020, 08:03:15 AM
Lockdown for the shielding ends on Monday
You made a few very good points and even for me I couldn't disagree with
The key with the unlocking of lockdown is track and trace. This needs to be really on the money as it basically puts out any fires
Agree the British government are shockingly poor
Everything they have done has been so poor to date
Lockdown late
Track trace scrapped early on
Face guards late
PPE LATE
Easing lockdown to early

The list goes on
Is Monday not the day they are finally allowed to go outside? Still not advised to meet anyone. Thats hardly lockdown ending for them. If anything thats just the same thing, as most elderly people still went out for walks and that anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 05, 2020, 09:31:36 AM
No
4 people allowed inside shielded houses in the south from Monday
The British government were in a great position that they were 3 weeks behind everyone else so should have been able to learn from others
They have completely lost control of this and an enquiry when it happens will not look good on them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 05, 2020, 11:20:47 AM
Per the HSE 140 confirmed Covid cases in Hospital this morning in the 26.
37 in ICU, not clear if they are part of the 140 or in addition to them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 05, 2020, 02:12:38 PM
3 confirmed cases in the north today along with 1 death which was backdated
0 deaths in 2 days in the north
Great news
Stick at it
Keep the distance
We are beating this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on June 05, 2020, 02:16:46 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 05, 2020, 02:12:38 PM
3 confirmed cases in the north today along with 1 death which was backdated
0 deaths in 2 days in the north
Great news
Stick at it
Keep the distance
We are beating this

Hadn't see the figures, but that is good news.
Assuming the 3 confirmed cases are hospital cases? I'd assume that means they can reliably work out roughly how many people in the population are currently infected (but dont need hospital).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 05, 2020, 02:19:34 PM
The rates have dropped for the last 5 weeks.

First wave done, hopefully the second wave doesn't come and we can get back to normal
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 05, 2020, 02:22:15 PM
A new normal milltown
As far as I know the 3 are confirmed cases in and out of hospitals. I know in the south they count all positive results. Something like 13% of all cases need hospital treatment.
Would that be right?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on June 05, 2020, 02:24:38 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 05, 2020, 02:22:15 PM
A new normal milltown
As far as I know the 3 are confirmed cases in and out of hospitals. I know in the south they count all positive results. Something like 13% of all cases need hospital treatment.
Would that be right?

So assuming worst case scenario and all 3 are in hospital, those 3 make up 13% of total infected. Roughly 23 infected in NI.
Keeping R below 1 now is key when we've got this far.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on June 05, 2020, 02:35:14 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 05, 2020, 02:24:38 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 05, 2020, 02:22:15 PM
A new normal milltown
As far as I know the 3 are confirmed cases in and out of hospitals. I know in the south they count all positive results. Something like 13% of all cases need hospital treatment.
Would that be right?

So assuming worst case scenario and all 3 are in hospital, those 3 make up 13% of total infected. Roughly 23 infected in NI.
Keeping R below 1 now is key when we've got this far.
BBC reporting that there are 55 patients in total being treated for confirmed or suspected cases (10 of whom are in ICU).
There are 3 NEW cases identified between yesterday morn and this morn.  Not 3 in hospital. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on June 05, 2020, 02:53:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 05, 2020, 02:19:34 PM
The rates have dropped for the last 5 weeks.

First wave done, hopefully the second wave doesn't come and we can get back to normal

Fingers and toes crossed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on June 05, 2020, 03:15:50 PM
Quote from: Rois on June 05, 2020, 02:35:14 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 05, 2020, 02:24:38 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 05, 2020, 02:22:15 PM
A new normal milltown
As far as I know the 3 are confirmed cases in and out of hospitals. I know in the south they count all positive results. Something like 13% of all cases need hospital treatment.
Would that be right?

So assuming worst case scenario and all 3 are in hospital, those 3 make up 13% of total infected. Roughly 23 infected in NI.
Keeping R below 1 now is key when we've got this far.
BBC reporting that there are 55 patients in total being treated for confirmed or suspected cases (10 of whom are in ICU).
There are 3 NEW cases identified between yesterday morn and this morn.  Not 3 in hospital.

Ah, ok my misunderstanding there. I thought there was only 3 in hospital.
By using the same approach that put about 423 infected in the population.

EDIT: read the BBC report. NISRA deaths are at 757 with 36 deaths in week ending 29th May.
Department of health reports 528 deaths for the same date.
NISRA states that excess deaths in NI are 939 which is accepted as the actual COVID death rate here. Almost double what Department of Health are reporting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on June 05, 2020, 05:55:28 PM
Today there are now 7 patients in IC in the North with he virus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 05, 2020, 06:58:57 PM
Full steam ahead to phase 2 in the 26.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: andoireabu on June 05, 2020, 08:20:30 PM
What's the story with crossing the border when the ban is lifted in July? Do you have to isolate for two weeks after you return?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 05, 2020, 09:15:22 PM
Channel 4 news reporting Pharm company Astracenica already making a vaccine. Just waiting on the nod to go live which could be September???
Please tell me someone else seen this!?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 05, 2020, 09:30:49 PM
Just reading about it on the bbc. The risk is that it doesn't work apparently... they seem to be hedging their bets on manufacturing a load of these vaccines up front. They must be confident as it would be a huge outlay. They have made big commitments too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 05, 2020, 09:37:33 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 05, 2020, 09:15:22 PM
Channel 4 news reporting Pharm company Astracenica already making a vaccine. Just waiting on the nod to go live which could be September???
Please tell me someone else seen this!?

I did. But they have to prove it works and they have to get it approved. The idea is if it works they'll have a stock right away but there's a couple of big, big ifs in that scenario.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on June 05, 2020, 09:52:11 PM
What's going to happen in the US after all these protests there's literally thousands out on the streets in every city and town . Surely this will have a horrible effect on the numbers with covid19 ? If it doesn't , how is it explained ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Downtothewire on June 05, 2020, 10:11:41 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on June 05, 2020, 08:20:30 PM
What's the story with crossing the border when the ban is lifted in July? Do you have to isolate for two weeks after you return?

Wise up, in fact just go an isolate for the next 6 months
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on June 06, 2020, 01:14:36 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 05, 2020, 09:30:49 PM
Just reading about it on the bbc. The risk is that it doesn't work apparently... they seem to be hedging their bets on manufacturing a load of these vaccines up front. They must be confident as it would be a huge outlay. They have made big commitments too.

A few other pharma companies are doing the same, developing manufacturing in parallel with testing instead of in series.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on June 06, 2020, 07:47:14 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 05, 2020, 09:31:36 AM
No
4 people allowed inside shielded houses in the south from Monday
The British government were in a great position that they were 3 weeks behind everyone else so should have been able to learn from others
They have completely lost control of this and an enquiry when it happens will not look good on them

It'll be like every other British inquiry.  Fudged initially, then drawn out and watered down so much that it will be meaningless.  Nobody who matters will be affected by its outcome.  At the very worst, Whitty & co will get hung out to dry.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on June 06, 2020, 07:52:58 AM
Brilliant to see the virus receding, especially when it's pretty obvious that a lot of the measures are all but being ignored in many cases.

What is the rationale behind the rates dropping so consistently?  Even in England, they are seeing their 7-day average death rate coming down pretty consistently.

Have they got the principal mode of transmission wrong?  Is it spread by skin-skin contact?  Because that is the one thing that I think almost everyone is still avoiding (and/or sanitising hands well).  Or has the virus mutated into something more benign?

RadioGAAGAA, what are your thoughts on this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: andoireabu on June 06, 2020, 10:05:32 AM
Quote from: Downtothewire on June 05, 2020, 10:11:41 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on June 05, 2020, 08:20:30 PM
What's the story with crossing the border when the ban is lifted in July? Do you have to isolate for two weeks after you return?

Wise up, in fact just go an isolate for the next 6 months

Good lad thanks for that. Hardly inconceivable that someone might have to travel across the border in both directions and wonder what the rules are since there isn't an all island response. But sure you keep going with the wise cracks. Whatever gives you a lift I suppose
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2020, 11:42:15 AM
Quote from: andoireabu on June 06, 2020, 10:05:32 AM
Quote from: Downtothewire on June 05, 2020, 10:11:41 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on June 05, 2020, 08:20:30 PM
What's the story with crossing the border when the ban is lifted in July? Do you have to isolate for two weeks after you return?

Wise up, in fact just go an isolate for the next 6 months

Good lad thanks for that. Hardly inconceivable that someone might have to travel across the border in both directions and wonder what the rules are since there isn't an all island response. But sure you keep going with the wise cracks. Whatever gives you a lift I suppose

I'm going to Dublin next week, what is the actual rules? Essential travel only?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: andoireabu on June 06, 2020, 01:06:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2020, 11:42:15 AM
Quote from: andoireabu on June 06, 2020, 10:05:32 AM
Quote from: Downtothewire on June 05, 2020, 10:11:41 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on June 05, 2020, 08:20:30 PM
What's the story with crossing the border when the ban is lifted in July? Do you have to isolate for two weeks after you return?

Wise up, in fact just go an isolate for the next 6 months

Good lad thanks for that. Hardly inconceivable that someone might have to travel across the border in both directions and wonder what the rules are since there isn't an all island response. But sure you keep going with the wise cracks. Whatever gives you a lift I suppose

I'm going to Dublin next week, what is the actual rules? Essential travel only?
Thing this covers it from North to South. Not sure what the story is on the return leg though. And this is due to update on Monday

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/travel.html (https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/travel.html)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on June 06, 2020, 03:50:23 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 06, 2020, 07:52:58 AM
Brilliant to see the virus receding, especially when it's pretty obvious that a lot of the measures are all but being ignored in many cases.

What is the rationale behind the rates dropping so consistently?  Even in England, they are seeing their 7-day average death rate coming down pretty consistently.

Have they got the principal mode of transmission wrong?  Is it spread by skin-skin contact?  Because that is the one thing that I think almost everyone is still avoiding (and/or sanitising hands well).  Or has the virus mutated into something more benign?

RadioGAAGAA, what are your thoughts on this?

It seems today's Corona virus doesnt pack the same punch as the one that came a few months back. Its clear there is still an awful lot unknown about this virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 06, 2020, 04:48:02 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 06, 2020, 03:50:23 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 06, 2020, 07:52:58 AM
Brilliant to see the virus receding, especially when it's pretty obvious that a lot of the measures are all but being ignored in many cases.

What is the rationale behind the rates dropping so consistently?  Even in England, they are seeing their 7-day average death rate coming down pretty consistently.

Have they got the principal mode of transmission wrong?  Is it spread by skin-skin contact?  Because that is the one thing that I think almost everyone is still avoiding (and/or sanitising hands well).  Or has the virus mutated into something more benign?

RadioGAAGAA, what are your thoughts on this?

It seems today's Corona virus doesnt pack the same punch as the one that came a few months back. Its clear there is still an awful lot unknown about this virus.

What does this mean though? Is it less likely to infect you or less likely to kill you?  If it is the former then the number of cases would hold  up, but deaths and hospitalisation would fall. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on June 06, 2020, 05:57:43 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 06, 2020, 07:52:58 AM
Brilliant to see the virus receding, especially when it's pretty obvious that a lot of the measures are all but being ignored in many cases.

What is the rationale behind the rates dropping so consistently?  Even in England, they are seeing their 7-day average death rate coming down pretty consistently.

Have they got the principal mode of transmission wrong?  Is it spread by skin-skin contact?  Because that is the one thing that I think almost everyone is still avoiding (and/or sanitising hands well).  Or has the virus mutated into something more benign?

RadioGAAGAA, what are your thoughts on this?

With all the pictures of beaches and protests it might seem like the everyone has given up on things, but are these people really representative of the entire population or just a very visible minority?

There's little doubt many people are taking chances that they wouldn't have a couple of months ago, but perhaps there's still a large unseen majority keeping things pretty tight. That would go a way to explaining the numbers falling even with the antics of those that can't seem to resist the pull of a crowd.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 06, 2020, 05:58:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2020, 11:42:15 AM
Quote from: andoireabu on June 06, 2020, 10:05:32 AM
Quote from: Downtothewire on June 05, 2020, 10:11:41 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on June 05, 2020, 08:20:30 PM
What's the story with crossing the border when the ban is lifted in July? Do you have to isolate for two weeks after you return?

Wise up, in fact just go an isolate for the next 6 months

Good lad thanks for that. Hardly inconceivable that someone might have to travel across the border in both directions and wonder what the rules are since there isn't an all island response. But sure you keep going with the wise cracks. Whatever gives you a lift I suppose

I'm going to Dublin next week, what is the actual rules? Essential travel only?

Teaching conference?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on June 06, 2020, 07:43:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2020, 11:42:15 AM
Quote from: andoireabu on June 06, 2020, 10:05:32 AM
Quote from: Downtothewire on June 05, 2020, 10:11:41 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on June 05, 2020, 08:20:30 PM
What's the story with crossing the border when the ban is lifted in July? Do you have to isolate for two weeks after you return?

Wise up, in fact just go an isolate for the next 6 months

Good lad thanks for that. Hardly inconceivable that someone might have to travel across the border in both directions and wonder what the rules are since there isn't an all island response. But sure you keep going with the wise cracks. Whatever gives you a lift I suppose

I'm going to Dublin next week, what is the actual rules? Essential travel only?

As a NI-resident, you can come and go as you please. The ROI restrictions don't apply to you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on June 06, 2020, 07:51:09 PM
Some official on there from Qatar speaking about the plans for the World Cup in 2022 and the reporter asked him if there was plans in place for social distancing.

I officially give up , I no longer understand this .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 06, 2020, 07:55:12 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on June 06, 2020, 07:51:09 PM
Some official on there from Qatar speaking about the plans for the World Cup in 2022 and the reporter asked him if there was plans in place for social distancing.

I officially give up , I no longer understand this .

What do you not understand? Social distancing will be here until a vaccine is found.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 06, 2020, 08:02:31 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 06, 2020, 07:55:12 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on June 06, 2020, 07:51:09 PM
Some official on there from Qatar speaking about the plans for the World Cup in 2022 and the reporter asked him if there was plans in place for social distancing.

I officially give up , I no longer understand this .

What do you not understand? Social distancing will be here until a vaccine is found.

Maybe not. Most people infected don't spread the disease.

Danger areas are where crowds gather. Maybe regulation wll focus on then.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 06, 2020, 08:07:57 PM
Viral load a big thing apparently. As well as super spreader events there seem to be super spreader individuals - e.g. in South Korea from the night club instances. Apparently this is hugely variable between people who have it but some for unknown reason have a high "viral load" so will be likely to spread it more.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 06, 2020, 08:12:15 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 06, 2020, 08:07:57 PM
Viral load a big thing apparently. As well as super spreader events there seem to be super spreader individuals - e.g. in South Korea from the night club instances. Apparently this is hugely variable between people who have it but some for unknown reason have a high "viral load" so will be likely to spread it more.

https://ft.com/content/121c2f30-9f69-11ea-ba68-3d5500196c30

"They can focus on catching the relatively few events that spread the pandemic coronavirus explosively.

But it also means surveillance systems need to be comprehensive, quick and watertight."

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on June 06, 2020, 08:33:29 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 06, 2020, 07:55:12 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on June 06, 2020, 07:51:09 PM
Some official on there from Qatar speaking about the plans for the World Cup in 2022 and the reporter asked him if there was plans in place for social distancing.

I officially give up , I no longer understand this .

What do you not understand? Social distancing will be here until a vaccine is found.

Why so ? Who dictates such changes in life .

There are 140 people in hospital with covid out of five million in Ireland , ffs wake up this is getting out of hand completely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on June 06, 2020, 08:53:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 06, 2020, 08:02:31 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 06, 2020, 07:55:12 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on June 06, 2020, 07:51:09 PM
Some official on there from Qatar speaking about the plans for the World Cup in 2022 and the reporter asked him if there was plans in place for social distancing.

I officially give up , I no longer understand this .

What do you not understand? Social distancing will be here until a vaccine is found.

Maybe not. Most people infected don't spread the disease.

Danger areas are where crowds gather. Maybe regulation wll focus on then.

Is this based on a study?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 06, 2020, 08:54:38 PM
Larry was just a month ago you were saying people aren't taking this serious on the board and that they next championship could be 2024
Why have you changed so drastically?
Now before you say well things have changed in 4 weeks if you had of been looking at it more closely you would have been able to see that was going to happen
Now you have went full 360
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on June 06, 2020, 09:04:03 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 06, 2020, 08:54:38 PM
Larry was just a month ago you were saying people aren't taking this serious on the board and that they next championship could be 2024
Why have you changed so drastically?
Now before you say well things have changed in 4 weeks if you had of been looking at it more closely you would have been able to see that was going to happen
Now you have went full 360

Absolutely gone 360 and no shame admitting it , my worry was the hospitals been overwhelmed like the images we seen in Italy and thinking how it was explained their health service was Twice as good as ours too .

But now we find ourselves in a very different place and all I'm hearing is "the new normal " . I find it very concerning how all of a sudden there is an acceptance of society been dictated to . Some of the commentary from the likes of houlihan is way beyond his station . 

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on June 06, 2020, 09:11:13 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 06, 2020, 09:07:27 PM
Point of order: have you not only gone 180?

Easier operate a 360 , never any use on a jcb.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 06, 2020, 09:13:38 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 06, 2020, 08:54:38 PM
Larry was just a month ago you were saying people aren't taking this serious on the board and that they next championship could be 2024
Why have you changed so drastically?
Now before you say well things have changed in 4 weeks if you had of been looking at it more closely you would have been able to see that was going to happen
Now you have went full 360

Have GONE.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on June 06, 2020, 09:27:01 PM
Looks like the Covid is gone into logarithmic growth. Its amazing what happens when a man goes back working again. Idle minds and all that. I said it at the start tis an awful pity the oul interweb didn't go into lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 06, 2020, 09:30:13 PM
Hardstation you did make me laugh with that comment
Rudi you have a magnificent point. People just getting on with things not as much drama now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on June 06, 2020, 09:34:39 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on June 06, 2020, 09:04:03 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 06, 2020, 08:54:38 PM
Larry was just a month ago you were saying people aren't taking this serious on the board and that they next championship could be 2024
Why have you changed so drastically?
Now before you say well things have changed in 4 weeks if you had of been looking at it more closely you would have been able to see that was going to happen
Now you have went full 360

Absolutely gone 360 and no shame admitting it , my worry was the hospitals been overwhelmed like the images we seen in Italy and thinking how it was explained their health service was Twice as good as ours too .

But now we find ourselves in a very different place and all I'm hearing is "the new normal " . I find it very concerning how all of a sudden there is an acceptance of society been dictated to . Some of the commentary from the likes of houlihan is way beyond his station .

Houlihan is only giving advice doesn't mean you have to follow it. Swingers are hardly following this advice for example.  ;)

(https://i.ibb.co/JkB4B1d/Screenshot-20200603-161825-2.png) (https://ibb.co/q1yfySn)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on June 06, 2020, 09:45:06 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 06, 2020, 09:34:39 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on June 06, 2020, 09:04:03 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 06, 2020, 08:54:38 PM
Larry was just a month ago you were saying people aren't taking this serious on the board and that they next championship could be 2024
Why have you changed so drastically?
Now before you say well things have changed in 4 weeks if you had of been looking at it more closely you would have been able to see that was going to happen
Now you have went full 360

Absolutely gone 360 and no shame admitting it , my worry was the hospitals been overwhelmed like the images we seen in Italy and thinking how it was explained their health service was Twice as good as ours too .

But now we find ourselves in a very different place and all I'm hearing is "the new normal " . I find it very concerning how all of a sudden there is an acceptance of society been dictated to . Some of the commentary from the likes of houlihan is way beyond his station .

Houlihan is only giving advice doesn't mean you have to follow it. Swingers are hardly following this advice for example.  ;)

(https://i.ibb.co/JkB4B1d/Screenshot-20200603-161825-2.png) (https://ibb.co/q1yfySn)

I'm a swinger myself and I can reassure you it's very difficult at the moment , fortnightly swinger part in Dublin a fairly well known one has been cancelled since this all began . Frustrating times
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 07, 2020, 12:04:28 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 06, 2020, 08:53:06 PM
Is this based on a study?

that would be the k value
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/01/k-number-what-is-coronavirus-metric-crucial-lockdown-eases
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 07, 2020, 02:43:22 PM
Great news again 0 deaths and only 6 new cases.
Could it be possible that Ireland as a whole could be shot of this more or less by July?
Obviously work at the airports will halt that
Government need to throw everything into the airports now
Test test test at airports people coming in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 07, 2020, 04:45:54 PM
1 death and 25 (I think) new cases in the 26.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 07, 2020, 05:13:03 PM
18 new cases 7 de notified
Things are definitely looking to be steady.
This week should tell us a lot as last Thursday Friday Saturday and Sunday beaches and parks were packed along with everyone I basically know drinking and bbq.
I'll be keeping a very close eye on new cases this week
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on June 07, 2020, 05:17:28 PM
Good man Smurfy thats a weight off my mind
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 07, 2020, 05:18:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 07, 2020, 04:45:54 PM
1 death and 25 (I think) new cases in the 26.

3 days in a row with cases under 30. It wasn't so long ago that we were hoping to see cases fall below 100 a day.

Total cases this week 249 (102 less cases than last week)
Total deaths this week 34 (18 less deaths than last week)

Hopefully next week is another week where the numbers continue to fall.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 07, 2020, 05:52:00 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 07, 2020, 02:43:22 PM
Could it be possible that Ireland as a whole could be shot of this more or less by July?

In summary no...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on June 07, 2020, 06:27:57 PM
Why is there such variance in the R number up north compared to down south?

Relatively the no of daily new cases up north seem to be pretty much in line with the southern figures per population but the R number up north seems to be double that down south.

Something not adding up there, are they fudging the actual new cases figure or is it a case of the O6 using a UK wide R figure for the north?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 07, 2020, 08:38:14 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on June 07, 2020, 05:17:28 PM
Good man Smurfy thats a weight off my mind

LOL - made me laugh anyway!  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on June 08, 2020, 12:00:48 AM
Sligo leading the way. Don't think the 6 counties are included in this though.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZ650NAWsAITAYA?format=png&name=small)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 08, 2020, 12:06:21 AM
Had a good laugh myself Radio.
Things looking good Galway
We can do this
We all need to take the credit for this
All of us on this board should be proud of one another regardless of the arguments we have had over it
Tradesmen
Solicitors
Chefs
Babysitters
Even teachers
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on June 08, 2020, 06:58:20 AM
New Zealand now there's the model everyone should heed .  Just announced their last active case has recovered . Amazing leadership , lockdown , shut your borders , sin e .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 08, 2020, 09:38:20 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on June 08, 2020, 06:58:20 AM
New Zealand now there's the model everyone should heed .  Just announced their last active case has recovered . Amazing leadership , lockdown , shut your borders , sin e .

We cannot do it. North/South political divide. Membership of EU freedom of movement.

It's a thinker for when the dust settles, it should be as easy as you suggest - but it isn't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 08, 2020, 09:57:13 AM
Slightly off topic but when da f**k are the recycling centres going to take soil?

Say they are waiting on government guidance?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on June 08, 2020, 10:06:53 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 08, 2020, 09:38:20 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on June 08, 2020, 06:58:20 AM
New Zealand now there's the model everyone should heed .  Just announced their last active case has recovered . Amazing leadership , lockdown , shut your borders , sin e .

We cannot do it. North/South political divide. Membership of EU freedom of movement.

It's a thinker for when the dust settles, it should be as easy as you suggest - but it isn't.

It could be done with the right political will. The UK (England) had probably the worst response in Western Europe.  There were many problems with the response on the island of Ireland but the intent was a lot stronger and we benefited from less urbanisation.  I would like to see the R figure now for community transmission.  I suspect it is pretty good and sitting as we do, next door to GB, there is a very strong case for closing down flights and quarantine measures.  They won't have the balls to do it though, and even if the science says its the right thing to do, they'll find a scientist to say its the wrong thing to do!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 08, 2020, 10:20:27 AM
Happy to be proven wrong here, but afaik NZ didn't lock down until after Australia, China, South Korea, Japan. So in terms of speed of strategy execution they didn't so much show leadership, as play the hand they were dealt.

That doesn't mean they didn't take the right measures after that. But it has to be immeasurably easier to throw a safety net around a country when all its trading partners (and the majority of its inbound leisure traffic) have all but ceased trading. Especially so when your net is going around an island in a distant outpost.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 08, 2020, 01:47:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 08, 2020, 09:57:13 AM
Slightly off topic but when da f**k are the recycling centres going to take soil?

Say they are waiting on government guidance?
Never mind the soil, I went on Friday with a load of plastic and glass bottles and cardboard. Sorry only taking cardboard! If there is one thing lockdown has generated in most houses it's bottles!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on June 08, 2020, 02:08:16 PM
No deaths for the second day in a row in the North.  Great news. 



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 08, 2020, 02:30:01 PM
Great news Rois
3 weeks ago Ross and co had everything cancelled for the year
I actually think the north should go one step ahead of the South today and announce that any restaurants with outside facilities could open to serve food and drink up to a certain time from the 22nd of June. No reason that shops can affectively open now and restaurants etc can't. All that would obviously come down to places being able to stick to the 2 metre rule where possible
Madness that schools haven't been back from June 1st at a smaller capacity. Some uproar in England that schools were open last Monday hasn't been a word since. Good news not worth reporting
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 08, 2020, 02:53:37 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 08, 2020, 02:30:01 PM
Great news Rois
3 weeks ago Ross and co had everything cancelled for the year
I actually think the north should go one step ahead of the South today and announce that any restaurants with outside facilities could open to serve food and drink up to a certain time from the 22nd of June. No reason that shops can affectively open now and restaurants etc can't. All that would obviously come down to places being able to stick to the 2 metre rule where possible
Madness that schools haven't been back from June 1st at a smaller capacity. Some uproar in England that schools were open last Monday hasn't been a word since. Good news not worth reporting

It's great news for the whole of Ireland - but now we also need to be aware that we are well on top, we shouldn't overreact should we get a bit of a rise in the days to come.

The Govts now need to really zero in on the counties with the biggest numbers, I'll presume they are Antrim, Dublin, Cork and Galway.

I agree it's time to press ahead though, lets continue to go slow, but lets go. The changes in this thread and life in general from the outbreak have been remarkable. I think we are all a bit more positive about the situation now and long may it continue.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on June 08, 2020, 03:25:55 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on June 08, 2020, 06:58:20 AM
New Zealand now there's the model everyone should heed .  Just announced their last active case has recovered . Amazing leadership , lockdown , shut your borders , sin e .

New Zealand are lucky on where they are located and they had only 1,504 cases in total yet it took them 4 months to bring that down to zero active cases. Which makes me wonder how long it will be for the Ireland to do likewise? ROI has  824 active cases not sure about the amount of active cases in Northern Ireland.

Irelands cause not helped with so close to England who have the opposite leadership to New Zealand. Only in the last few weeks have England increased testing and are tracing contacts something they should have done months ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 08, 2020, 03:38:40 PM
Quote from: Rois on June 08, 2020, 02:08:16 PM
No deaths for the second day in a row in the North.  Great news.
Bill Gates must have finished chipping everyone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 08, 2020, 03:45:31 PM
Ye know all them maps going about showing the big black holes in road,rail networks and jobs in Derry, Donegal and Fermanagh?
Guess what they match exactly the same pattern for lowest numbers of COVID 19. Strange that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on June 08, 2020, 04:22:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 08, 2020, 10:20:27 AM
Happy to be proven wrong here, but afaik NZ didn't lock down until after Australia, China, South Korea, Japan. So in terms of speed of strategy execution they didn't so much show leadership, as play the hand they were dealt.

That doesn't mean they didn't take the right measures after that. But it has to be immeasurably easier to throw a safety net around a country when all its trading partners (and the majority of its inbound leisure traffic) have all but ceased trading. Especially so when your net is going around an island in a distant outpost.

Fair point.
But they acted quickly on the strong hand they were dealt. In a European context , ROI did well especially given the existing problems with their health service. Up north we clearly out scored "the rest of the UK" , though British government and media have done an excellent job keeping this quiet. There is no doubt that Boris' early complacency was disastrous. I wonder will those (including the media ) that were very critical of Michelle breaking ranks and challenging Arlene to follow ROI rather the UK, admit that the eventual unity of purpose in following ROI saved many lives. I think Even Arlene  realises that we dodged a bullet by going on our own
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on June 08, 2020, 04:35:20 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 08, 2020, 01:47:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 08, 2020, 09:57:13 AM
Slightly off topic but when da f**k are the recycling centres going to take soil?

Say they are waiting on government guidance?
Never mind the soil, I went on Friday with a load of plastic and glass bottles and cardboard. Sorry only taking cardboard! If there is one thing lockdown has generated in most houses it's bottles!

Pull up at most tesco's or Sainsburys, they've bottle banks in the car parks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 08, 2020, 05:00:47 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 08, 2020, 04:35:20 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 08, 2020, 01:47:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 08, 2020, 09:57:13 AM
Slightly off topic but when da f**k are the recycling centres going to take soil?

Say they are waiting on government guidance?
Never mind the soil, I went on Friday with a load of plastic and glass bottles and cardboard. Sorry only taking cardboard! If there is one thing lockdown has generated in most houses it's bottles!

Pull up at most tesco's or Sainsburys, they've bottle banks in the car parks.

Is there one for soil  ;!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 08, 2020, 05:02:25 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 08, 2020, 02:30:01 PM
Great news Rois
3 weeks ago Ross and co had everything cancelled for the year
I actually think the north should go one step ahead of the South today and announce that any restaurants with outside facilities could open to serve food and drink up to a certain time from the 22nd of June. No reason that shops can affectively open now and restaurants etc can't. All that would obviously come down to places being able to stick to the 2 metre rule where possible
Madness that schools haven't been back from June 1st at a smaller capacity. Some uproar in England that schools were open last Monday hasn't been a word since. Good news not worth reporting

I'm not surprise there's uproar in England, have you seen the death rate there?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 08, 2020, 05:52:53 PM
What's the deaths rates in England got to do with the schools opening last Monday?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 08, 2020, 05:57:36 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 08, 2020, 05:52:53 PM
What's the deaths rates in England got to do with the schools opening last Monday?

I wouldn't be sending my kids to school when there are so many new cases and deaths in England, but you're happy with that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 08, 2020, 06:02:10 PM
Sadly another 4 further deaths in the ROI but only 9 cases which is lowest number of daily cases since March 11th.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 08, 2020, 06:10:40 PM
If very much send my kids to school in with them statistics
What are you afraid off? What is your concern?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 08, 2020, 06:15:57 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 08, 2020, 06:10:40 PM
If very much send my kids to school in with them statistics
What are you afraid off? What is your concern?

Answer me this first, do you think kids pass on the virus?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on June 08, 2020, 06:29:26 PM
So, you live in the North and fly to New York via Dublin, so on arrival and return to the North do you have to quarantine? Assuming that the flight actually goes and we have to self isolate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 08, 2020, 06:32:12 PM
Different reports on children spreading it so no I can't answer you. If the scientist can't give us a certain 100% answer to that I can't
Hardstation car crash causes serious illness or even death. Do you stop your kids getting into the car?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 08, 2020, 06:33:29 PM
Quarantine means nothing. People will not abide by it and it can't be policed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 08, 2020, 06:37:54 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 08, 2020, 06:32:12 PM
Different reports on children spreading it so no I can't answer you. If the scientist can't give us a certain 100% answer to that I can't
Hardstation car crash causes serious illness or even death. Do you stop your kids getting into the car?

So you can't answer it? It's a simple yes they can't get and pass on or they can!

Placing 30 kids in a class and teachers plus staff and others that'll come into contact, applying social distancing to 5 years, good luck with that.

When you get me a proper scientist that says clods don't get the virus and if they do can't pass it on I'll send them back

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 08, 2020, 06:42:21 PM
So what if we don't get a vaccine and we have 5/6 cases on a daily bases?
And we still can't tell if kids pass it on
Say 2 years down the line 5/6 cases everyday
Take it you keep the kids off??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 08, 2020, 06:45:54 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 08, 2020, 06:42:21 PM
So what if we don't get a vaccine and we have 5/6 cases on a daily bases?
And we still can't tell if kids pass it on
Say 2 years down the line 5/6 cases everyday
Take it you keep the kids off??

They are going back in September in some form, I didn't mention vaccine, but the cases will be a lot lower come September and more manageable should there be a rise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 08, 2020, 08:10:43 PM
People going to NI don't have to quarantine in Dublin and NI doesn't have quarantine, of course, that might stop the virus.

As for enforcement, I suggest they should require a €1000 deposit for non citizens and that they cancel the passport of any citizen who breaches quarantine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 08, 2020, 08:42:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 08, 2020, 08:10:43 PM
People going to NI don't have to quarantine in Dublin and NI doesn't have quarantine, of course, that might stop the virus.

As for enforcement, I suggest they should require a €1000 deposit for non citizens and that they cancel the passport of any citizen who breaches quarantine.

Enforcement? Sure you can't enforce the normal distancing rules never mind cancelling people's passports
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 08, 2020, 08:48:03 PM
Yep - tourism is gonna be a major issue for stopping this thing sparking up again.

No doubt moves will already be afoot in the background to open up the Schengen area again - and the politicians will fall over themselves to justify it. While its a great idea in normal times - some pragmatism is required right now- and that typically is not something politicians have in abundance.


The talk of "air corridors" is another. WTF is an "air corridor" beyond a useless piece of paperwork that breaks the compartmentalisation necessary to beat this thing?  They'll look so f**king bright with their "air corridors" around Christmas when the damn thing is running amok all over Europe again. But hey, nothing a few sharp suits, nice ties and endless talking won't be able to make go away.  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 08, 2020, 09:04:54 PM
There is no way of policing quarantine. In office today  4 0f 7 have now decided to go on pre-booked hols if flights are not cancelled. 2 weeks ago most were of completely different outlook . Things and peoples opinions changing very quickly
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 08, 2020, 09:07:04 PM
Like schools opening up and pubs the tourists will be back also.. providing we all keep socially distancing  to a point, sanitising and washing hands it won't be as bad. It's going to keep coming back until there is a vaccine anyways.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 08, 2020, 10:52:19 PM
The WHO now saying Asymptomatic spread of Coronavirus is very very rear after doing lots of detailed tests
The plot thickens
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 08, 2020, 11:52:01 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 08, 2020, 10:52:19 PM
The WHO now saying Asymptomatic spread of Coronavirus is very very rear after doing lots of detailed tests
The plot thickens

Link

Edit: found it. Did you read it? Appears rather than very very rare, not rear is the wording. The virus is still spread by droplets sneezing or coughing, people may not have symptoms but can pass it before getting symptoms, which may be mild. I didn't read that kids can't pass it on though
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 08, 2020, 11:58:21 PM
Google it for Christ sake
It's everywhere you look
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 09, 2020, 01:17:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 08, 2020, 11:52:01 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 08, 2020, 10:52:19 PM
The WHO now saying Asymptomatic spread of Coronavirus is very very rear after doing lots of detailed tests
The plot thickens

Link

Edit: found it. Did you read it? Appears rather than very very rare, not rear is the wording. The virus is still spread by droplets sneezing or coughing, people may not have symptoms but can pass it before getting symptoms, which may be mild. I didn't read that kids can't pass it on though

Perhaps you could link it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 09, 2020, 01:56:02 AM
Milltoen if sick stay at home
Don't get you
On one hand your saying you won't send your kids back until you can be sure it can't be passed on
Now what if they can't find a cure for 5 years and we are still getting 4/5 new cases a day? We would still be in the same now as we would be in a few years. Surely you wouldn't keep the kids home for years?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 09, 2020, 07:11:53 AM
 https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/08/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread-who-bn/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/08/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread-who-bn/index.html)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 09, 2020, 09:28:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 09, 2020, 07:11:53 AM
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/08/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread-who-bn/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/08/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread-who-bn/index.html)

Alot of it was common sense before the Covid 19 / Coronavirus phenomenon. I'd like to think most people avoid someone who was coughing and sneezing before this all kicked off, in as much as you can. You certainly didn't get in the way of their coughing. I hate the term social distance or social distancing but it's not exactly a new phenomenon either, it's just been driven home to death over the past few months.

"It passes from an individual through infectious droplets. If we actually followed all of the symptomatic cases, isolated those cases, followed the contacts and quarantined those cases, we would drastically reduce -- I would love to be able to give a proportion of how much transmission we would actually stop -- but it would be a drastic reduction in transmission,"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 09, 2020, 09:39:29 AM
Common sense without doubt. If someone generally sick or coughing they stay at home. If they don't and go out you generally stay well clear. Also basic hygiene with washing your hands where possible. I know that's not practical all the time but it really is common hygiene. It may make us think that bit more. Going to the shop we should be cleaning our hands after as the things we touch.
Car handle
Steering wheel
Groceries
Money or card
Door handles
Seat belt
Mobile phone

And that's just shooting out and down to the local shop
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 09, 2020, 10:03:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 08, 2020, 09:04:54 PM
There is no way of policing quarantine. In office today  4 0f 7 have now decided to go on pre-booked hols if flights are not cancelled. 2 weeks ago most were of completely different outlook . Things and peoples opinions changing very quickly

There is of course a way of policing quarantine. However, there isn't much need for quarantine if there is feck all Covid where the person is coming from. Significant numbers of people are only travelling because this is the case. So I wouldn't impose quarantine for most European countries other than Britain and Sween, but would keep it for the rest of the world. Australia and New Zealand would be OK, but there is a question over how people would get here from there.

And of course there could be a cluster of cases any day in some resort and here we go again. 

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 09, 2020, 09:28:43 AM
Alot of it was common sense before the Covid 19 / Coronavirus phenomenon. I'd like to think most people avoid someone who was coughing and sneezing before this all kicked off, in as much as you can. You certainly didn't get in the way of their coughing. I hate the term social distance or social distancing but it's not exactly a new phenomenon either, it's just been driven home to death over the past few months.

A lot of this was common sense, but Covid19 still spread and will again if people relax.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 10:08:42 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 09, 2020, 10:03:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 08, 2020, 09:04:54 PM
There is no way of policing quarantine. In office today  4 0f 7 have now decided to go on pre-booked hols if flights are not cancelled. 2 weeks ago most were of completely different outlook . Things and peoples opinions changing very quickly

There is of course a way of policing quarantine. However, there isn't much need for quarantine if there is feck all Covid where the person is coming from. Significant numbers of people are only travelling because this is the case. So I wouldn't impose quarantine for most European countries other than Britain and Sween, but would keep it for the rest of the world. Australia and New Zealand would be OK, but there is a question over how people would get here from there.

And of course there could be a cluster of cases any day in some resort and here we go again.

What about:

- an English man resident In England who comes in via France?

- a French man resident in England who comes in via France?

- an English man resident in France who comes in via France?

- a French man resident in France who comes in via England?

Cherrypicking ain't easy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 09, 2020, 10:20:17 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 10:08:42 AM
What about:

- an English man resident In England who comes in via France?

- a French man resident in England who comes in via France?

- an English man resident in France who comes in via France?

- a French man resident in France who comes in via England?

Cherrypicking ain't easy.

What is the question here.? Is it who should be quarantined or can people evade it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 09, 2020, 10:40:37 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 09, 2020, 10:03:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 08, 2020, 09:04:54 PM
There is no way of policing quarantine. In office today  4 0f 7 have now decided to go on pre-booked hols if flights are not cancelled. 2 weeks ago most were of completely different outlook . Things and peoples opinions changing very quickly

There is of course a way of policing quarantine. However, there isn't much need for quarantine if there is feck all Covid where the person is coming from. Significant numbers of people are only travelling because this is the case. So I wouldn't impose quarantine for most European countries other than Britain and Sween, but would keep it for the rest of the world. Australia and New Zealand would be OK, but there is a question over how people would get here from there.

And of course there could be a cluster of cases any day in some resort and here we go again. 

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 09, 2020, 09:28:43 AM
Alot of it was common sense before the Covid 19 / Coronavirus phenomenon. I'd like to think most people avoid someone who was coughing and sneezing before this all kicked off, in as much as you can. You certainly didn't get in the way of their coughing. I hate the term social distance or social distancing but it's not exactly a new phenomenon either, it's just been driven home to death over the past few months.

A lot of this was common sense, but Covid19 still spread and will again if people relax.

But if I go to France tomorrow, come back next week, give my qauarantine address in to authorities and head to work the day after I come back?
Who would know? How would they know?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 09, 2020, 10:47:45 AM
Spot checks? The fear of being fined?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2020, 10:54:31 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 09, 2020, 10:40:37 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 09, 2020, 10:03:39 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 08, 2020, 09:04:54 PM
There is no way of policing quarantine. In office today  4 0f 7 have now decided to go on pre-booked hols if flights are not cancelled. 2 weeks ago most were of completely different outlook . Things and peoples opinions changing very quickly

There is of course a way of policing quarantine. However, there isn't much need for quarantine if there is feck all Covid where the person is coming from. Significant numbers of people are only travelling because this is the case. So I wouldn't impose quarantine for most European countries other than Britain and Sween, but would keep it for the rest of the world. Australia and New Zealand would be OK, but there is a question over how people would get here from there.

And of course there could be a cluster of cases any day in some resort and here we go again. 

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 09, 2020, 09:28:43 AM
Alot of it was common sense before the Covid 19 / Coronavirus phenomenon. I'd like to think most people avoid someone who was coughing and sneezing before this all kicked off, in as much as you can. You certainly didn't get in the way of their coughing. I hate the term social distance or social distancing but it's not exactly a new phenomenon either, it's just been driven home to death over the past few months.

A lot of this was common sense, but Covid19 still spread and will again if people relax.

But if I go to France tomorrow, come back next week, give my qauarantine address in to authorities and head to work the day after I come back?
Who would know? How would they know?

Will they have to quarantine the whole family? Cause if he gets off a plane uses the bus or gets a taxi or heads to the shop he'll have been in contact with loads! Then when he meets his family they'll have self isolate! If you live in a 2 bedroom apartment it's going to be very difficult to quarantine for two weeks!

Why not just test the person and tell him he's positive or negative?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on June 09, 2020, 10:58:37 AM
Ireland will not go into full lockdown again if there is a rise in coronavirus cases later in the year. Reported in Irish Independent.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 09, 2020, 11:48:49 AM
115 confirmed cases now in Hospital in the 26.
34 in ICU, dont know of that is in addition to the 115 or part of them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 09, 2020, 12:01:12 PM
Keep her locked down Ross
3 weeks ago you had everything cancelled until 2021
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2020, 12:49:09 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 09, 2020, 12:01:12 PM
Keep her locked down Ross
3 weeks ago you had everything cancelled until 2021

See the schools are closed in England
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 09, 2020, 01:00:52 PM
No they are not
They have held back on getting everyone in before the summer is out
It's mad as in from next week I can take my kids to primary but can't get them into school. Crazy
Let's pack out shopping centres forget the schools
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 09, 2020, 01:11:06 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 09, 2020, 01:00:52 PM
No they are not
They have held back on getting everyone in before the summer is out
It's mad as in from next week I can take my kids to primary but can't get them into school. Crazy
Let's pack out shopping centres forget the schools

Do you mean Primark? I'm sure they won't want a load of kids either, they really shouldn't allow groups of people in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 09, 2020, 01:14:13 PM
Yes Primark
Nothing stopping anyone bringing in 4 children
Daddy why can't I go to school- Coronavirus dear
Daddy why are we going to Primark- Because we can dear
Armagh agree with you btw
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 09, 2020, 01:24:43 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52975934
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 09, 2020, 01:32:03 PM
WOW
The plot thickens
Another organisation that has come out of this very poorly has been WHO
Poor poor leadership from them and so many grey areas being announced
Be clear especially when you are speaking to the world
WOW
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on June 09, 2020, 01:55:31 PM
 :o

Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 09, 2020, 01:32:03 PM
WOW
The plot thickens
Another organisation that has come out of this very poorly has been WHO
Poor poor leadership from them and so many grey areas being announced
Be clear especially when you are speaking to the world
WOW
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on June 09, 2020, 02:22:52 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 09, 2020, 01:00:52 PM
No they are not
They have held back on getting everyone in before the summer is out
It's mad as in from next week I can take my kids to primary but can't get them into school. Crazy
Let's pack out shopping centres forget the schools

Why are you so intent on getting the schools back?

Generally they'd be going on holidays shortly and not back until Sept. If that is the case as normal then it makes sense to wait it out until September and we have a better handle on things.

It's great that the virus is dying off but there needs to be a degree of caution until we further the suppress of it. Most shops and retail outlets will be compliant with social distancing guidelines so it's much easier police there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on June 09, 2020, 02:23:52 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 09, 2020, 01:14:13 PM
Yes Primark
Nothing stopping anyone bringing in 4 children
Daddy why can't I go to school- Coronavirus dear
Daddy why are we going to Primark- Because we can dear
Armagh agree with you btw

Common sense maybe?

Should Daddy be bringing his 4 kids to Primark? No.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
For everyone anxious to open up ASAP - consider this - if another week or two closed down now prevented a lockdown in 6 months time - what would you do?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 09, 2020, 02:28:30 PM
I'm afraid common sense doesn't come into it
Should daddy be going to a packed beach no. Does it happen course it does
I'm not intent on Schools going back. A phased return from the start of June should have happened from primary 4 up to say year 3
Primary 4/5 in one week primary 6/7 in the next. 2 weeks each they would have got. Now this is for young ones to see friends and primary 7 to see out the schools they all went too. They can never get those times back ever.
0 deaths in the north today and only 3 cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 02:32:13 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
For everyone anxious to open up ASAP - consider this - if another week or two closed down now prevented a lockdown in 6 months time - what would you do?

I suppose my question back to you would would centre upon what evidence, what figures, what statistics to you need to come across, before you (personally) would agree that it's safe to open?

I'm genuinely interested here. Do we need 0 deaths for a couple of days, zero cases for a week? What is it that would satisfy someone as worried about the virus, as you have been throughout.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 09, 2020, 02:42:29 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 02:32:13 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
For everyone anxious to open up ASAP - consider this - if another week or two closed down now prevented a lockdown in 6 months time - what would you do?

I suppose my question back to you would would centre upon what evidence, what figures, what statistics to you need to come across, before you (personally) would agree that it's safe to open?

I'm genuinely interested here. Do we need 0 deaths for a couple of days, zero cases for a week? What is it that would satisfy someone as worried knowledgeable about the virus, as you have been throughout.

Fixed that for you
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on June 09, 2020, 02:44:50 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 02:32:13 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
For everyone anxious to open up ASAP - consider this - if another week or two closed down now prevented a lockdown in 6 months time - what would you do?

I suppose my question back to you would would centre upon what evidence, what figures, what statistics to you need to come across, before you (personally) would agree that it's safe to open?

I'm genuinely interested here. Do we need 0 deaths for a couple of days, zero cases for a week? What is it that would satisfy someone as consistently right about the virus, as you have been throughout.

Had another go at fixing it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 02:52:23 PM
No doubt on knowledgeable. Consistently right is open to interpretation, and may even enjoy an asterisk beside, should a wave 2 not materialise.

But either way, I'm still interested to know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on June 09, 2020, 02:58:39 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 02:52:23 PM
No doubt on knowledgeable. Consistently right is open to interpretation, and may even enjoy an asterisk beside, should a wave 2 not materialise.

But either way, I'm still interested to know.

Agreed - it's a fair question.  And I think, on a gov't front, that sort of criteria needs to be laid out plainly (in numbers) to set people a target if nothing else.

Otherwise, I don't really see how you can say that Radio has been anything other than correct in his (her) predictions so far.  You've nearly proved the point yourself.  The only thing you could fault him on was something which hasn't happened yet  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 03:07:46 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 09, 2020, 02:58:39 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 02:52:23 PM
No doubt on knowledgeable. Consistently right is open to interpretation, and may even enjoy an asterisk beside, should a wave 2 not materialise.

But either way, I'm still interested to know.

Agreed - it's a fair question.  And I think, on a gov't front, that sort of criteria needs to be laid out plainly (in numbers) to set people a target if nothing else.

Otherwise, I don't really see how you can say that Radio has been anything other than correct in his (her) predictions so far.  You've nearly proved the point yourself.  The only thing you could fault him on was something which hasn't happened yet  ;D


We have a conundrum on this one Franko in that while Radio has consistently proven himself (or herself) able to understand and relay the science, his leaning has consistently been towards the catastrophic conclusion.  Not quite Neil Ferguson levels, but definitely erring on the "lock yourself in a bunker" side of caution. So while the overview was largely on the money, the impact was never close.

I've enjoyed reading his inputs. Just, as in all things in life, I reserve the right to be sceptical of anything that is not proven.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on June 09, 2020, 04:09:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 03:07:46 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 09, 2020, 02:58:39 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 02:52:23 PM
No doubt on knowledgeable. Consistently right is open to interpretation, and may even enjoy an asterisk beside, should a wave 2 not materialise.

But either way, I'm still interested to know.

Agreed - it's a fair question.  And I think, on a gov't front, that sort of criteria needs to be laid out plainly (in numbers) to set people a target if nothing else.

Otherwise, I don't really see how you can say that Radio has been anything other than correct in his (her) predictions so far.  You've nearly proved the point yourself.  The only thing you could fault him on was something which hasn't happened yet  ;D


We have a conundrum on this one Franko in that while Radio has consistently proven himself (or herself) able to understand and relay the science, his leaning has consistently been towards the catastrophic conclusion.  Not quite Neil Ferguson levels, but definitely erring on the "lock yourself in a bunker" side of caution. So while the overview was largely on the money, the impact was never close.

I've enjoyed reading his inputs. Just, as in all things in life, I reserve the right to be sceptical of anything that is not proven.

A few things;

1. 60,000 odd dead people is pretty catastrophic
2. My reading of his most "catastrophic" predictions were in the event that no action was taken
3. Most countries have taken hugely decisive courses of action and as a result, have averted total disaster
4. The countries with the most laissez-faire attitudes (which were most at odds with the courses of action that Radio had advocated here) have performed worst in this crisis.  I'm sure this is no coincidence
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on June 09, 2020, 04:35:49 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 09, 2020, 04:09:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 03:07:46 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 09, 2020, 02:58:39 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 02:52:23 PM
No doubt on knowledgeable. Consistently right is open to interpretation, and may even enjoy an asterisk beside, should a wave 2 not materialise.

But either way, I'm still interested to know.

Agreed - it's a fair question.  And I think, on a gov't front, that sort of criteria needs to be laid out plainly (in numbers) to set people a target if nothing else.

Otherwise, I don't really see how you can say that Radio has been anything other than correct in his (her) predictions so far.  You've nearly proved the point yourself.  The only thing you could fault him on was something which hasn't happened yet  ;D


We have a conundrum on this one Franko in that while Radio has consistently proven himself (or herself) able to understand and relay the science, his leaning has consistently been towards the catastrophic conclusion.  Not quite Neil Ferguson levels, but definitely erring on the "lock yourself in a bunker" side of caution. So while the overview was largely on the money, the impact was never close.

I've enjoyed reading his inputs. Just, as in all things in life, I reserve the right to be sceptical of anything that is not proven.

A few things;

1. 60,000 odd dead people is pretty catastrophic
2. My reading of his most "catastrophic" predictions were in the event that no action was taken
3. Most countries have taken hugely decisive courses of action and as a result, have averted total disaster
4. The countries with the most laissez-faire attitudes (which were most at odds with the courses of action that Radio had advocated here) have performed worst in this crisis.  I'm sure this is no coincidence

The UK "took it on the chin" as Boris alluded to and still managed to f**k up the economy along with the 60K deaths.

Countries that locked down earlier are quicker on open up but Boris is opening up anyway even if a pretty high infection rate.
1200 cases yesterday which is roughly the same as it was on the 24th of March when he locked down!

The Tories are winging this one in a big way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on June 09, 2020, 04:48:09 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 09, 2020, 04:35:49 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 09, 2020, 04:09:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 03:07:46 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 09, 2020, 02:58:39 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 02:52:23 PM
No doubt on knowledgeable. Consistently right is open to interpretation, and may even enjoy an asterisk beside, should a wave 2 not materialise.

But either way, I'm still interested to know.

Agreed - it's a fair question.  And I think, on a gov't front, that sort of criteria needs to be laid out plainly (in numbers) to set people a target if nothing else.

Otherwise, I don't really see how you can say that Radio has been anything other than correct in his (her) predictions so far.  You've nearly proved the point yourself.  The only thing you could fault him on was something which hasn't happened yet  ;D


We have a conundrum on this one Franko in that while Radio has consistently proven himself (or herself) able to understand and relay the science, his leaning has consistently been towards the catastrophic conclusion.  Not quite Neil Ferguson levels, but definitely erring on the "lock yourself in a bunker" side of caution. So while the overview was largely on the money, the impact was never close.

I've enjoyed reading his inputs. Just, as in all things in life, I reserve the right to be sceptical of anything that is not proven.

A few things;

1. 60,000 odd dead people is pretty catastrophic
2. My reading of his most "catastrophic" predictions were in the event that no action was taken
3. Most countries have taken hugely decisive courses of action and as a result, have averted total disaster
4. The countries with the most laissez-faire attitudes (which were most at odds with the courses of action that Radio had advocated here) have performed worst in this crisis.  I'm sure this is no coincidence

The UK "took it on the chin" as Boris alluded to and still managed to f**k up the economy along with the 60K deaths.

Countries that locked down earlier are quicker on open up but Boris is opening up anyway even if a pretty high infection rate.
1200 cases yesterday which is roughly the same as it was on the 24th of March when he locked down!

The Tories are winging this one in a big way.

Big Balls Boris couldn't make the decision.

He had the choice (as he saw it) of either f**king the economy or people dying in huge numbers.  And he didn't want to be seen as the guy who did either of those things.

So he tried to fudge it and ended up with a foot in both camps.

The Irish guy who gave the speech about "act now, if you wait to be right, you've waited too long" was bang on the money.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 09, 2020, 05:04:36 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 09, 2020, 04:35:49 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 09, 2020, 04:09:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 03:07:46 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 09, 2020, 02:58:39 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 02:52:23 PM
No doubt on knowledgeable. Consistently right is open to interpretation, and may even enjoy an asterisk beside, should a wave 2 not materialise.

But either way, I'm still interested to know.

Agreed - it's a fair question.  And I think, on a gov't front, that sort of criteria needs to be laid out plainly (in numbers) to set people a target if nothing else.

Otherwise, I don't really see how you can say that Radio has been anything other than correct in his (her) predictions so far.  You've nearly proved the point yourself.  The only thing you could fault him on was something which hasn't happened yet  ;D


We have a conundrum on this one Franko in that while Radio has consistently proven himself (or herself) able to understand and relay the science, his leaning has consistently been towards the catastrophic conclusion.  Not quite Neil Ferguson levels, but definitely erring on the "lock yourself in a bunker" side of caution. So while the overview was largely on the money, the impact was never close.

I've enjoyed reading his inputs. Just, as in all things in life, I reserve the right to be sceptical of anything that is not proven.

A few things;

1. 60,000 odd dead people is pretty catastrophic
2. My reading of his most "catastrophic" predictions were in the event that no action was taken
3. Most countries have taken hugely decisive courses of action and as a result, have averted total disaster
4. The countries with the most laissez-faire attitudes (which were most at odds with the courses of action that Radio had advocated here) have performed worst in this crisis.  I'm sure this is no coincidence

The UK "took it on the chin" as Boris alluded to and still managed to f**k up the economy along with the 60K deaths.

Countries that locked down earlier are quicker on open up but Boris is opening up anyway even if a pretty high infection rate.
1200 cases yesterday which is roughly the same as it was on the 24th of March when he locked down!

The Tories are winging this one in a big way.

Serious question, say an election next month.

Do you honestly believe that they wouldn't get re-elected?

The British Media are at their work....Coronavirus all of a sudden wasn't as bad as feared....bars to reopen soon, Premier League starting back up...oh, and what's that in the distance....a no deal brexit bell?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 09, 2020, 05:24:18 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 09, 2020, 05:04:36 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 09, 2020, 04:35:49 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 09, 2020, 04:09:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 03:07:46 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 09, 2020, 02:58:39 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 02:52:23 PM
No doubt on knowledgeable. Consistently right is open to interpretation, and may even enjoy an asterisk beside, should a wave 2 not materialise.

But either way, I'm still interested to know.

Agreed - it's a fair question.  And I think, on a gov't front, that sort of criteria needs to be laid out plainly (in numbers) to set people a target if nothing else.

Otherwise, I don't really see how you can say that Radio has been anything other than correct in his (her) predictions so far.  You've nearly proved the point yourself.  The only thing you could fault him on was something which hasn't happened yet  ;D


We have a conundrum on this one Franko in that while Radio has consistently proven himself (or herself) able to understand and relay the science, his leaning has consistently been towards the catastrophic conclusion.  Not quite Neil Ferguson levels, but definitely erring on the "lock yourself in a bunker" side of caution. So while the overview was largely on the money, the impact was never close.

I've enjoyed reading his inputs. Just, as in all things in life, I reserve the right to be sceptical of anything that is not proven.

A few things;

1. 60,000 odd dead people is pretty catastrophic
2. My reading of his most "catastrophic" predictions were in the event that no action was taken
3. Most countries have taken hugely decisive courses of action and as a result, have averted total disaster
4. The countries with the most laissez-faire attitudes (which were most at odds with the courses of action that Radio had advocated here) have performed worst in this crisis.  I'm sure this is no coincidence

The UK "took it on the chin" as Boris alluded to and still managed to f**k up the economy along with the 60K deaths.

Countries that locked down earlier are quicker on open up but Boris is opening up anyway even if a pretty high infection rate.
1200 cases yesterday which is roughly the same as it was on the 24th of March when he locked down!

The Tories are winging this one in a big way.

Serious question, say an election next month.

Do you honestly believe that they wouldn't get re-elected?

The British Media are at their work....Coronavirus all of a sudden wasn't as bad as feared....bars to reopen soon, Premier League starting back up...oh, and what's that in the distance....a no deal brexit bell?

No - I would firmly believe they would get elected again - maybe not with the landslide they had but they would be re-elected.

Its a shitshow of a place controlled by the media (or by the paymasters of the media).

Imagine making such a fuckup of this situation and still being untouchable
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 09, 2020, 05:39:29 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 09, 2020, 05:24:18 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 09, 2020, 05:04:36 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 09, 2020, 04:35:49 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 09, 2020, 04:09:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 03:07:46 PM
Quote from: Franko on June 09, 2020, 02:58:39 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 02:52:23 PM
No doubt on knowledgeable. Consistently right is open to interpretation, and may even enjoy an asterisk beside, should a wave 2 not materialise.

But either way, I'm still interested to know.

Agreed - it's a fair question.  And I think, on a gov't front, that sort of criteria needs to be laid out plainly (in numbers) to set people a target if nothing else.

Otherwise, I don't really see how you can say that Radio has been anything other than correct in his (her) predictions so far.  You've nearly proved the point yourself.  The only thing you could fault him on was something which hasn't happened yet  ;D


We have a conundrum on this one Franko in that while Radio has consistently proven himself (or herself) able to understand and relay the science, his leaning has consistently been towards the catastrophic conclusion.  Not quite Neil Ferguson levels, but definitely erring on the "lock yourself in a bunker" side of caution. So while the overview was largely on the money, the impact was never close.

I've enjoyed reading his inputs. Just, as in all things in life, I reserve the right to be sceptical of anything that is not proven.

A few things;

1. 60,000 odd dead people is pretty catastrophic
2. My reading of his most "catastrophic" predictions were in the event that no action was taken
3. Most countries have taken hugely decisive courses of action and as a result, have averted total disaster
4. The countries with the most laissez-faire attitudes (which were most at odds with the courses of action that Radio had advocated here) have performed worst in this crisis.  I'm sure this is no coincidence

The UK "took it on the chin" as Boris alluded to and still managed to f**k up the economy along with the 60K deaths.

Countries that locked down earlier are quicker on open up but Boris is opening up anyway even if a pretty high infection rate.
1200 cases yesterday which is roughly the same as it was on the 24th of March when he locked down!

The Tories are winging this one in a big way.

Serious question, say an election next month.

Do you honestly believe that they wouldn't get re-elected?

The British Media are at their work....Coronavirus all of a sudden wasn't as bad as feared....bars to reopen soon, Premier League starting back up...oh, and what's that in the distance....a no deal brexit bell?

No - I would firmly believe they would get elected again - maybe not with the landslide they had but they would be re-elected.

Its a shitshow of a place controlled by the media (or by the paymasters of the media).

Imagine making such a fuckup of this situation and still being untouchable

5m unemployment predicted and the virus isn't yet under control.
I think the Tories may be snookered.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 09, 2020, 05:46:43 PM
It's the constant lies and bullshit that they come out with that annoys me
Can't answer a simple question without a bullshit answer
The smugness
Never admit they got anything wrong
The lies with the testing
The car crash tv interviews
They seen what was coming before it came and still failed to lockdown
Absolutely morons
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2020, 05:58:33 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 09, 2020, 05:46:43 PM
It's the constant lies and bullshit that they come out with that annoys me
Can't answer a simple question without a bullshit answer
The smugness
Never admit they got anything wrong
The lies with the testing
The car crash tv interviews
They seen what was coming before it came and still failed to lockdown
Absolutely morons

Oh the irony  ;D

On another note, 3 days in a row for the north, things moving along. Maybe get the kids back to school in a couple of weeks..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 09, 2020, 06:05:50 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 02:32:13 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 09, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
For everyone anxious to open up ASAP - consider this - if another week or two closed down now prevented a lockdown in 6 months time - what would you do?

I suppose my question back to you would would centre upon what evidence, what figures, what statistics to you need to come across, before you (personally) would agree that it's safe to open?

I'm genuinely interested here. Do we need 0 deaths for a couple of days, zero cases for a week? What is it that would satisfy someone as worried about the virus, as you have been throughout.

Its not just a case of what the virus trend is when determining is it safe - its also the measures for identifying, tracing and isolating any future cases to prevent it flaring up - and how well they will work with a general population that may be willing - but many clearly can't understand and/or follow the instructions.

For instance, if we'd perfect track/trace - then we could open up right now and still be very confident in being able to kill this off. But we don't have perfect track/trace, we have either bad instructions on what constitutes a potential risk and/or a populace that can't interpret even mildly complex instructions (average of less than 3 contacts per covid case for tracing? that is plainly shite - if you go grocery shopping your likely to be in close contact with a cashier for more than 5 mins). We don't have phone tracing apps and I think many would be unwilling to download them.

With the above in mind, and given the absence of quick testing (is HiberGene, SAMBA-II or CRISPR rolled out yet)? then cases would need to be essentially zero for the full gestation period (~2.5 weeks) before we'd be safe to really open up (and even then, really isn't full). Even at that, I'd still expect there to be flare ups somewhere. At which point the govt need to jump on it - "go hard early" also applies in local as well as national settings - massive neighbourhood/workplace/etc testing to get any potential contacts - and anti-body tests to get possible sources then run back up those trace avenues.


Furthermore, when talking about "open up" - we must recognise that there are two distinct aspects to it - the potential for local outbreaks due to local people, or the potential for outbreaks from folks entering the country. Obviously, it'd be daft if we eradicated the thing in Ireland only to reimport it if the airports/seaports are reopened full blast. A clear way around it would be to use the fast tests at the departure port and no-one with a positive test is allowed to travel. Danger would be they pass it on to other travellers between arriving and getting sent home. A potential means around that would be getting people to self test at home before heading the air/sea port. Yet that trusts people not to bullshit the system.



I'm not happy with the situation at the airports. They are far too open. The authorities have learned nothing. This thing didn't arrive in on a gust of wind across the Irish sea. I think the international lockdown needs to continue (or rather, actually happen as it hasn't really been wholly implemented at all yet).

As for the national lockdown, 0 cases for 2 weeks, or the track/tracing system catching 100% of all cases before they submit themselves for testing for 2 weeks and I'd have to say it doesn't justify the continued economic hardship.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 09, 2020, 06:15:20 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 09, 2020, 05:46:43 PM
It's the constant lies and bullshit that they come out with that annoys me
Can't answer a simple question without a bullshit answer
The smugness
Never admit they got anything wrong
The lies with the testing
The car crash tv interviews
They seen what was coming before it came and still failed to lockdown
Absolutely morons
They are incompetent

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/06/01/the-lost-march-how-the-uk-governments-covid-19-strategy-fell-apart/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 09, 2020, 06:23:37 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/09/markets-pocketing-global-recovery-does-not-yet-exist/

The World Health Organisation says the global pandemic is getting worse, not better. Hans Kluge, the WHO's Europe chief, told The Telegraph this week that he fears a more deadly second wave this winter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 09, 2020, 06:25:50 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 03:07:46 PM
We have a conundrum on this one Franko in that while Radio has consistently proven himself (or herself) able to understand and relay the science, his leaning has consistently been towards the catastrophic conclusion.  Not quite Neil Ferguson levels, but definitely erring on the "lock yourself in a bunker" side of caution. So while the overview was largely on the money, the impact was never close.

Do you not think shutting down the economy for 3 months had an impact on how bad it could have been?

Anyway, on the 2nd wave. I hope it doesn't happen. Things are gonna be awful enough here with this and Brexit looming without another wave. Perhaps it has mutated into a more benign form (as the Italians firmly believe).


Yet, history looms like a shadow. The Spanish flu was first identified in March 1918. In April/May 1918 it spread in its initial form across England/France/Spain/Italy. Yet it wasn't so bad (or at least, not near as bad as it would get). Cases dropped off through the summer and the thinking was it was gone. Then in the autumn it mutated - made worse by all the troops being transported around the world -and killed millions. A third wave in 1919 was as deadly per case as the 2nd wave, but had less cases due to reduced international travelling.

In the first world war, all nations had a total of ~70m troops involved over the course of the war. 80 million people pass through just London Heathrow in a year. The world is incredibly vulnerable to a 2nd spike of a mutated virus emerging anywhere else in the world and spreading if the correct measures are not taken at all air/sea ports. I'm very wary of the political will being necessary to either (i) sufficiently guard against it, (ii) react in a timely fashion to another outbreak and (iii) close down international transport as necessary to protect national economies.

Hopefully any mutations are (a) not detrimental to the vaccines in development and (b) make the virus more benign. Neither are guaranteed though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 09, 2020, 06:29:59 PM
We are basing a second wave of the Spanish flu over 100 years ago
Yes we will see spikes that's where the track an trace comes into play
We hadn't got that in 1916. Better health care
8 deaths in the south today only 8 cases. Strange the deaths in the south seem very high compared to the cases they are getting. Low cases but still 8/9 deaths that's not good reading
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 10, 2020, 12:42:58 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 09, 2020, 05:39:29 PM
5m unemployment predicted and the virus isn't yet under control.
I think the Tories may be snookered.

You can't bullshit a virus, it doesn't pay any attention.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 10, 2020, 09:51:06 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 09, 2020, 06:25:50 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 09, 2020, 03:07:46 PM
We have a conundrum on this one Franko in that while Radio has consistently proven himself (or herself) able to understand and relay the science, his leaning has consistently been towards the catastrophic conclusion.  Not quite Neil Ferguson levels, but definitely erring on the "lock yourself in a bunker" side of caution. So while the overview was largely on the money, the impact was never close.

Do you not think shutting down the economy for 3 months had an impact on how bad it could have been?

Anyway, on the 2nd wave. I hope it doesn't happen. Things are gonna be awful enough here with this and Brexit looming without another wave. Perhaps it has mutated into a more benign form (as the Italians firmly believe).


Yet, history looms like a shadow. The Spanish flu was first identified in March 1918. In April/May 1918 it spread in its initial form across England/France/Spain/Italy. Yet it wasn't so bad (or at least, not near as bad as it would get). Cases dropped off through the summer and the thinking was it was gone. Then in the autumn it mutated - made worse by all the troops being transported around the world -and killed millions. A third wave in 1919 was as deadly per case as the 2nd wave, but had less cases due to reduced international travelling.

In the first world war, all nations had a total of ~70m troops involved over the course of the war. 80 million people pass through just London Heathrow in a year. The world is incredibly vulnerable to a 2nd spike of a mutated virus emerging anywhere else in the world and spreading if the correct measures are not taken at all air/sea ports. I'm very wary of the political will being necessary to either (i) sufficiently guard against it, (ii) react in a timely fashion to another outbreak and (iii) close down international transport as necessary to protect national economies.

Hopefully any mutations are (a) not detrimental to the vaccines in development and (b) make the virus more benign. Neither are guaranteed though.

The above on the Spanish Flu is correct, but you should also mention just for the other side of reason, the conditions that troops faced due to the nature of the tactics used in WW1 would have contributed massively towards spreading of virus'.

Arguably the perfect mix for any virus to spread like wildfire, the conditions in the trenches must have been absolutely horrific, then add in the inconveniences like dead bodies, dead horses on top of a diet that was nearly void of anything like we now know.





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on June 10, 2020, 10:27:48 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 09, 2020, 06:23:37 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/06/09/markets-pocketing-global-recovery-does-not-yet-exist/

The World Health Organisation says the global pandemic is getting worse, not better. Hans Kluge, the WHO's Europe chief, told The Telegraph this week that he fears a more deadly second wave this winter.

It's still to reach it's peak in the likes of Brazil and Latin America and in that sense is getting worse as the epicentre has moved from Europe (not sure about Russia though) to the Americas.

If you look at the trends on John Hopkins it looks like Iran has already had a second peak of infections.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 10, 2020, 10:40:33 AM
A friend of mine reckons there will maybe be 5 or 6 waves never mind 2. He's a doctor too who's reading all the medical papers on it and this is what they seem to think. Definitely moving the right direction but this shit is far from over yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 10, 2020, 10:51:01 AM
There is no doubt a second wave is very possible but if we as a society try to stick the the social distancing as best we can and be aware of the new norm then we should be well able to control the number of people that do get it. That along with a world class track and trace system should do it. Also the airports should be the next thing now. Fire everything at that for now
Now it's almost impossible to get rid of it because of the shit show that's happening in England. They are a shambles and takes us down with them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 10, 2020, 10:51:16 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 10, 2020, 10:40:33 AM
A friend of mine reckons there will maybe be 5 or 6 waves never mind 2. He's a doctor too who's reading all the medical papers on it and this is what they seem to think. Definitely moving the right direction but this shit is far from over yet.

See this is the stuff that drives me potty. Epidemiology experts, it seems, have finally calmed down a little with their "the end is nigh" predictions. But a doctor who has read some medical papers, and has combined inherent bias with outdated thinking, won't let the bone go.

Doctors, with the greatest respect to them, are only marginally more qualified in their opinions here than Ashley Cole and Raheem Sterling are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 10, 2020, 10:56:35 AM
Florida, Arizona & Texas seeing their 2nd peaks now as a result from their early lockdown easing. I assume 2nd Peakes cant be avoided and are part of the natural progeression of a virus until it peters out?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 10, 2020, 10:59:46 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 10, 2020, 10:51:16 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 10, 2020, 10:40:33 AM
A friend of mine reckons there will maybe be 5 or 6 waves never mind 2. He's a doctor too who's reading all the medical papers on it and this is what they seem to think. Definitely moving the right direction but this shit is far from over yet.

See this is the stuff that drives me potty. Epidemiology experts, it seems, have finally calmed down a little with their "the end is nigh" predictions. But a doctor who has read some medical papers, and has combined inherent bias with outdated thinking, won't let the bone go.

Doctors, with the greatest respect to them, are only marginally more qualified in their opinions here than Ashley Cole and Raheem Sterling are.

;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 10, 2020, 11:13:00 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 10, 2020, 10:51:16 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 10, 2020, 10:40:33 AM
A friend of mine reckons there will maybe be 5 or 6 waves never mind 2. He's a doctor too who's reading all the medical papers on it and this is what they seem to think. Definitely moving the right direction but this shit is far from over yet.

See this is the stuff that drives me potty. Epidemiology experts, it seems, have finally calmed down a little with their "the end is nigh" predictions. But a doctor who has read some medical papers, and has combined inherent bias with outdated thinking, won't let the bone go.

Doctors, with the greatest respect to them, are only marginally more qualified in their opinions here than Ashley Cole and Raheem Sterling are.

Spot on wobbler - Cole & Sterling , the lazy fucks, only completed 4 years at medical school before concentrating on the soccer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 10, 2020, 11:32:54 AM
Professor Wobbler taking over from Professor Smurf ::)

Meanwhile there's lorryloads of cash out there

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/investors-clamour-to-lend-a-record-66bn-to-ireland-in-cash-saturated-bond-market-39273976.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 10, 2020, 11:35:55 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 10, 2020, 11:13:00 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 10, 2020, 10:51:16 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 10, 2020, 10:40:33 AM
A friend of mine reckons there will maybe be 5 or 6 waves never mind 2. He's a doctor too who's reading all the medical papers on it and this is what they seem to think. Definitely moving the right direction but this shit is far from over yet.

See this is the stuff that drives me potty. Epidemiology experts, it seems, have finally calmed down a little with their "the end is nigh" predictions. But a doctor who has read some medical papers, and has combined inherent bias with outdated thinking, won't let the bone go.

Doctors, with the greatest respect to them, are only marginally more qualified in their opinions here than Ashley Cole and Raheem Sterling are.

Spot on wobbler - Cole & Sterling , the lazy fucks, only completed 4 years at medical school before concentrating on the soccer.


Hence the use of "marginally".

Tim Harford has a wonderful chapter in one of his books about the value of "expert" predictions. Statistically, experts are only slightly more useful at predicting the future in their discipline than the man in the street. Now that is not to undermine the usefulness of that margin: we are almost always better off following the opinions of someone with a better record.

But doctors aren't experts on epidemiology. They may be more well read in general than a premiership footballer, but their chances of being right are only marginally improved, and at that, only if they can approach the subject without bias.


Some people on this board could do with analysing what they read, not accepting what they read.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 10, 2020, 11:50:18 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 10, 2020, 11:35:55 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 10, 2020, 11:13:00 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 10, 2020, 10:51:16 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 10, 2020, 10:40:33 AM
A friend of mine reckons there will maybe be 5 or 6 waves never mind 2. He's a doctor too who's reading all the medical papers on it and this is what they seem to think. Definitely moving the right direction but this shit is far from over yet.

See this is the stuff that drives me potty. Epidemiology experts, it seems, have finally calmed down a little with their "the end is nigh" predictions. But a doctor who has read some medical papers, and has combined inherent bias with outdated thinking, won't let the bone go.

Doctors, with the greatest respect to them, are only marginally more qualified in their opinions here than Ashley Cole and Raheem Sterling are.

Spot on wobbler - Cole & Sterling , the lazy fucks, only completed 4 years at medical school before concentrating on the soccer.


Hence the use of "marginally".

Tim Harford has a wonderful chapter in one of his books about the value of "expert" predictions. Statistically, experts are only slightly more useful at predicting the future in their discipline than the man in the street. Now that is not to undermine the usefulness of that margin: we are almost always better off following the opinions of someone with a better record.

But doctors aren't experts on epidemiology. They may be more well read in general than a premiership footballer, but their chances of being right are only marginally improved, and at that, only if they can approach the subject without bias.


Some people on this board could do with analysing what they read, not accepting what they read.

Ridiculous statement wobbler when trying to prove a point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 10, 2020, 12:02:03 PM
We will have to disagree Taylor.

If you're willing to place the opinions of a doctor on a pedestal, it should be because they've got expertise.

All you know about this particular doctor is that he's a friend of someone on an anonymous message board. He could have finished training last week, and is now specialising in oncology. Or he could be 25 years qualified, specialising in pulmonary care, with a career full of published articles on his specialism.

As pointed out previously, if he's the latter, he still only has a marginally improved chance of forecasting the future in his discipline than the man on the street. If he's the former, he is no more qualified that the man on the street.

This is not a "ridiculous" viewpoint. This is the real world.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2020, 12:24:23 PM
What's your expertise wobbler?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 10, 2020, 12:27:45 PM
You are entitled to your opinion off course wobbler so we will disagree.

That a doctor is only 'marginally' better qualified than Sterling (who got a tattoo of a gun on his leg) & Cole (who done the dirt on Cheryl) is something that IMHO is ridiculous.

Back to your point about experts etc you have a point in that we dont know who to believe - some of the opinions of WHO have been discredited recently.

And as for the UK scientists guiding the course of action - just wait until they are thrown under the bus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on June 10, 2020, 12:32:53 PM
All depends on who qualifies as an expert. A general practitioner doctor is unlikely to be an expert on epidemiology. A epidemiologist is unlikely to be an expert on general practice medicine.

Some of the people who are presented as experts on TV, radio and the newspapers would be better described as pundits.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 10, 2020, 01:17:20 PM
Medical people are "pundits" while random posters on an internet forum are....????
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on June 10, 2020, 01:18:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 10, 2020, 01:17:20 PM
Medical people are "pundits" while random posters on an internet forum are....????

...random posters on an internet forum.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on June 10, 2020, 01:25:10 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 10, 2020, 11:35:55 AM
Tim Harford has a wonderful chapter in one of his books about the value of "expert" predictions. Statistically, experts are only slightly more useful at predicting the future in their discipline than the man in the street. Now that is not to undermine the usefulness of that margin: we are almost always better off following the opinions of someone with a better record.

What was the basis of this analysis? Does it cover all fields of expertise? Or just economics?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 10, 2020, 01:30:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2020, 12:24:23 PM
What's your expertise wobbler?

In this matter (like most) absolutely none.

And as such I would sincerely hope that nobody would give credence to my opinions on this matter. Which is why you'll find I don't really have opinions on the matter at hand, over and above encouraging people not to believe what they read, especially if you're prone to reading only stuff you agree with.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 10, 2020, 01:47:22 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 10, 2020, 01:25:10 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 10, 2020, 11:35:55 AM
Tim Harford has a wonderful chapter in one of his books about the value of "expert" predictions. Statistically, experts are only slightly more useful at predicting the future in their discipline than the man in the street. Now that is not to undermine the usefulness of that margin: we are almost always better off following the opinions of someone with a better record.

What was the basis of this analysis? Does it cover all fields of expertise? Or just economics?

If I remember right, it was focused largely on political and economic predictions / forecasting, but the underlying studies featured experts from a wide field of disciplines.


——

Back on point. TommyGunn is entitled to promote the thoughts of this doctor, as I assume he knows him well, and trusts that he is smart, perceptive and grounded.

Anyone else promoting the thoughts of same doctor - with no insight into his intelligence, perception, politics or preferences - may as well promote the thoughts of Kevin De Bruyne.

(KdB might actually be right anyway, not because he knows more, but because he could have a more perceptive view on the influence of external factors, or it could be because a broken clock is right twice a day)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 10, 2020, 02:06:28 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 10, 2020, 01:47:22 PM
If I remember right, it was focused largely on political and economic predictions / forecasting

Neither of which are sciences.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 10, 2020, 02:18:55 PM
Follow the facts not the science
Wobblers 100% correct
The fact is men like radio Milltown Ross has everything cancelled until 2021. Because they read it somewhere. I take it the spike in America was because they are going about their business as normal before they even slowed the curve
We are easing things slowly when affectively we have it crushed.
Those men on furlough looking it to go on forever
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on June 10, 2020, 02:31:33 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 10, 2020, 01:47:22 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 10, 2020, 01:25:10 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 10, 2020, 11:35:55 AM
Tim Harford has a wonderful chapter in one of his books about the value of "expert" predictions. Statistically, experts are only slightly more useful at predicting the future in their discipline than the man in the street. Now that is not to undermine the usefulness of that margin: we are almost always better off following the opinions of someone with a better record.

What was the basis of this analysis? Does it cover all fields of expertise? Or just economics?

If I remember right, it was focused largely on political and economic predictions / forecasting, but the underlying studies featured experts from a wide field of disciplines.

Economic predictions are notoriously difficult.

There are many fields where expert predictions are virtually guaranteed to be much better than the person on the street e.g. Cancer prognosis from an oncologist compared to a farmer or predicted performance of a heifer from a dairy farmer compared to an oncologist.

On the whole, I take your point though that simply being a doctor doesn't make you an expert in virology / epidemiology. Being a virologist / epidemiologist does though
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 10, 2020, 02:42:04 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52993734

Interesting article.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 10, 2020, 03:09:30 PM
Smurfy nothing is crushed. Nothing.

Society is barely functioning. When it does that is when we tell.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2020, 03:46:24 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 10, 2020, 02:18:55 PM
Follow the facts not the science
Wobblers 100% correct
The fact is men like radio Milltown Ross has everything cancelled until 2021. Because they read it somewhere. I take it the spike in America was because they are going about their business as normal before they even slowed the curve
We are easing things slowly when affectively we have it crushed, Crushed I tell you
Those men on furlough looking it to go on forever

Back to work, wife still working, it's 3.39pm still sending emails and corrections to pupils answering parents questions on how it's difficult for wee Johnny as she's not a maths teacher and can't help him..

No one I know on furlough wants to be off forever, can't afford too

Wobbler is 100% correct on nothing, he's already said he knows nothing about this so I agree with him on that

Fixed that bit also for you
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on June 10, 2020, 04:17:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2020, 03:46:24 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 10, 2020, 02:18:55 PM
Follow the facts not the science
Wobblers 100% correct
The fact is men like radio Milltown Ross has everything cancelled until 2021. Because they read it somewhere. I take it the spike in America was because they are going about their business as normal before they even slowed the curve
We are easing things slowly when affectively we have it crushed, Crushed I tell you
Those men on furlough looking it to go on forever

Back to work, wife still working, it's 3.39pm still sending emails and corrections to pupils answering parents questions on how it's difficult for wee Johnny as she's not a maths teacher and can't help him..

No one I know on furlough wants to be off forever, can't afford too

Wobbler is 100% correct on nothing, he's already said he knows nothing about this so I agree with him on that

Fixed that bit also for you

Wee Johnny is Ok here for maths, languages, now that's another story..........
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 10, 2020, 04:40:08 PM
Pull the other one milltown
Teachers have done little or nothing since lockdown
Back in this month getting things organised for September
And you know it too
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2020, 04:52:39 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 10, 2020, 04:40:08 PM
Pull the other one milltown
Teachers have done little or nothing since lockdown
Back in this month getting things organised for September
And you know it too

Right OK ! Numpty
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 11, 2020, 12:10:41 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 10, 2020, 02:42:04 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52993734

Interesting article.

Just imagine the difference if they'd bothered their hole to restrict air travel.

It's not like it wasn't blindingly f**king obvious or anything.  ::)

Wonder will the penny drop when it comes to reopening the internal economy and how they control/police the "bio-borders".


edit: and there is no point responding to Smurfy. The wind might blow a different direction tomorrow. The "facts not science" line is particularly enlightening - I assume he's examining the entrails of a goat or something to determine his facts... as obviously the scientific method need not apply.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 11, 2020, 01:06:11 AM
Yes the facts
Things were improving every week and many were saying no we won't be able to do this that and the other this year
I was clearly stating that things are improving and in 3 weeks things will start to improve but no it was as if posters were set that the year was done
And now see when things are massively improving not as much posting on here. You can guarantee if things were bad the posting on this thread would be a lot more
Good news doesn't sell
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 11, 2020, 09:26:40 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 11, 2020, 12:10:41 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 10, 2020, 02:42:04 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52993734

Interesting article.

Just imagine the difference if they'd bothered their hole to restrict air travel.

It's not like it wasn't blindingly f**king obvious or anything.  ::)

Wonder will the penny drop when it comes to reopening the internal economy and how they control/police the "bio-borders".


I remember at the start of it you called it and I said they wouldn't close the airports, I completely agree with you by the way but I knew they would never pull the airports. My worry is, this is not a one off, or certainly there could be more 'importation'of the virus, there seems to be no appetite to restrict travel which is worrying because no matter your political allegiance the recognition that we are different, because we are an island was our biggest advantage - Spain, Italy etc had no chance.

The North are absolutely uselsss politically unfortunately, if SF said we need to try and close the borders as a starting point should it flare up again the DUP must immediately disagree, that's their game and the rod they've made for their own backs (anyone who thinks they actually dislike either other and don't consult before these public twisting matches I'm afraid is a bit behind...)

The South needs to be leading this, preparation for the next wave (I despise that term...) or indeed illness starts now. The biggest thing we should have learned is that in times of trouble, we are out. Borders closed. Sorry....It should be that easy. It's a bit of legal minefield but being an island we should have certain policy in place now that we are centred on this issue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 11, 2020, 10:26:01 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 11, 2020, 09:26:40 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 11, 2020, 12:10:41 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 10, 2020, 02:42:04 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52993734

Interesting article.

Just imagine the difference if they'd bothered their hole to restrict air travel.

It's not like it wasn't blindingly f**king obvious or anything.  ::)

Wonder will the penny drop when it comes to reopening the internal economy and how they control/police the "bio-borders".


I remember at the start of it you called it and I said they wouldn't close the airports, I completely agree with you by the way but I knew they would never pull the airports. My worry is, this is not a one off, or certainly there could be more 'importation'of the virus, there seems to be no appetite to restrict travel which is worrying because no matter your political allegiance the recognition that we are different, because we are an island was our biggest advantage - Spain, Italy etc had no chance.

The North are absolutely uselsss politically unfortunately, if SF said we need to try and close the borders as a starting point should it flare up again the DUP must immediately disagree, that's their game and the rod they've made for their own backs (anyone who thinks they actually dislike either other and don't consult before these public twisting matches I'm afraid is a bit behind...)

The South needs to be leading this, preparation for the next wave (I despise that term...) or indeed illness starts now. The biggest thing we should have learned is that in times of trouble, we are out. Borders closed. Sorry....It should be that easy. It's a bit of legal minefield but being an island we should have certain policy in place now that we are centred on this issue.

We need to take our lead from South on this without doubt. Not only this but everything. I have been saying this for years, forget about FG or FF bashing for a minute, they are just simply miles ahead of us up here strategically and economically. The ROI has made unreal strides in last 30 years, a great country(hopefully we will be 32 again), has probems, but I tell you this extreme left wing polictics and virtue signalling aren't the solution
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hereiam on June 11, 2020, 12:46:11 PM
If it does flare up all airports and ferry crossings need to be closed except for frieght which can be controlled and tested. The south should call it and this in turn will put pressure on SF etc to get the same done.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 11, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
No new Covid hospital admissions in the south this last 48 hours
Some going
People in hospital below 100 for the first time in 3 months
No ICU admissions in a week
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 11, 2020, 07:20:01 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 11, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
No new Covid hospital admissions in the south this last 48 hours
Some going
People in hospital below 100 for the first time in 3 months
No ICU admissions in a week
Crushed? Crushed?  ;D

Department stores opening up. Kids will have somewhere to go now, god bless them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on June 11, 2020, 11:54:22 PM
Prof Hendrik Streeck predicts there will be no second wave

By Justin Huggler
BERLIN
10 June 2020 • 5:13pm

One of Germany's most prominent virologists has said the country's lockdown was unnecessary to defeat the coronavirus.

"We went into lockdown too quickly because the prevailing concern was that there might not be enough intensive care beds and that there was pressure from the public," Prof Hendrik Streeck said.

"We are seeing a lot of asymptomatic cases, that is infections with no consequences. This means we can assess the danger from the virus better. I still don't believe that at the end of the year we will have had more deaths in Germany than in other years."

Prof Streeck led the first comprehensive study into the effects of the coronavirus on an entire community in the German town of Gangelt.

The controversial study found the fatality rate for the virus was much lower than at first thought, at just 0.37 per cent.

It also found that ten times more people than previously thought may have acquired immunity to the virus.

"My position has always been that the virus should not be trivialized, but that it shouldn't be overdramatised either," Prof Streeck told Neue Osnabrücker Zeitung newspaper.

"I agreed with the initial restrictions and the ban on major events. After they were imposed, the infection process already started to decrease. I would have made further measures, such as contact restrictions, dependent on the actual course of the outbreak, in order to see how effective restrictions are and whether additional steps are really necessary."

Prof Streeck said he did not expect a second wave of infections. "I don't think we'll see a big surge in Covid 19 infections again, but if we do we should be careful not to take such strong measures as we did in the spring," he said.

"There will always be further outbreaks. So far, they have been rather harmless. Of course that requires coordinated and continuous monitoring."

Prof Streeck's intervention comes with no sign of a second wave in Germany more than seven weeks after the country began lifting its lockdown.

But his claims are likely to stir controversy. The Gangelt study he headed came under sustained attack from rival scientists who claimed it underplays the risk from the virus.

They claim it was commissioned for political purposes by the regional government of North Rhine-Westphalia, whose leader Armin Laschet opposed the lockdown — allegations Prof Streeck denies.

He spoke out in support of schools reopening. "Children are not major carriers for this virus. This is known virologically. The decision now has to be made politically," he said.

"In any case, teachers have no higher risk of infection than other professional groups that work with people, such as nurses or sales staff."

And he was critical of the requirement to wear facemasks in shops and on public transport in Germany.

"At the beginning of the pandemic, masks were specifically warned against. The reasons for this still apply, even if, strangely enough, they no longer seem to matter to anyone.

"People shuffle the masks in their pockets, hold them constantly and strap them over their mouths for two weeks, probably unwashed. This is a wonderful breeding ground for bacteria and fungi."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 12, 2020, 12:15:22 AM
3,090 people testing in California and  1,698 people in Florida.
Twice as bad as England at present.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 12, 2020, 12:27:43 AM
But the sun and the fact they don't drink Corona will help California through it... I heard a person on tv say that! They don't drink Mexican drinks...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on June 12, 2020, 09:44:51 AM
Arizona getting a touch too

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/11/arizona-coronavirus-us-covid19-doug-ducey

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 12, 2020, 10:26:14 AM
UK economy shrinks by 20.4% - now the economic and financial hardship is really going to start.

When the furlough scheme ends all of this good will and pulling together is gone.

People are going to have to start worrying about putting bread on the table
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 12, 2020, 10:31:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 12, 2020, 10:26:14 AM
UK economy shrinks by 20.4% - now the economic and financial hardship is really going to start.

When the furlough scheme ends all of this good will and pulling together is gone.

People are going to have to start worrying about putting bread on the table

No, they'll have the blue passports, that's the important thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 12, 2020, 10:34:10 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 12, 2020, 10:31:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 12, 2020, 10:26:14 AM
UK economy shrinks by 20.4% - now the economic and financial hardship is really going to start.

When the furlough scheme ends all of this good will and pulling together is gone.

People are going to have to start worrying about putting bread on the table

No, they'll have the blue passports, that's the important thing.

Wonder what the odds are of an extension  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on June 12, 2020, 11:19:33 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 12, 2020, 10:34:10 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 12, 2020, 10:31:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 12, 2020, 10:26:14 AM
UK economy shrinks by 20.4% - now the economic and financial hardship is really going to start.

When the furlough scheme ends all of this good will and pulling together is gone.

People are going to have to start worrying about putting bread on the table

No, they'll have the blue passports, that's the important thing.

Wonder what the odds are of an extension  :o

Both Nicloa Sturgeon and the Labour party have called for such..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 12, 2020, 11:38:22 AM
Quote from: GJL on June 12, 2020, 11:19:33 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 12, 2020, 10:34:10 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 12, 2020, 10:31:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 12, 2020, 10:26:14 AM
UK economy shrinks by 20.4% - now the economic and financial hardship is really going to start.

When the furlough scheme ends all of this good will and pulling together is gone.

People are going to have to start worrying about putting bread on the table

No, they'll have the blue passports, that's the important thing.

Wonder what the odds are of an extension  :o

Both Nicloa Sturgeon and the Labour party have called for such..

Looks like they are already starting to worry about it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53018020

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on June 12, 2020, 11:41:48 AM
Quote from: GJL on June 12, 2020, 11:19:33 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 12, 2020, 10:34:10 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 12, 2020, 10:31:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 12, 2020, 10:26:14 AM
UK economy shrinks by 20.4% - now the economic and financial hardship is really going to start.

When the furlough scheme ends all of this good will and pulling together is gone.

People are going to have to start worrying about putting bread on the table

No, they'll have the blue passports, that's the important thing.

Wonder what the odds are of an extension  :o

Both Nicloa Sturgeon and the Labour party have called for such..

Don't think Starmer has though?

Looks like he's keeping Boris to his word on this oven ready deal that Boris already wants to put back in the fridge as he's made a balls of it.

Brexit is a toxic issue for Labour.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on June 12, 2020, 12:05:07 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 12, 2020, 11:38:22 AM
Quote from: GJL on June 12, 2020, 11:19:33 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 12, 2020, 10:34:10 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 12, 2020, 10:31:43 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 12, 2020, 10:26:14 AM
UK economy shrinks by 20.4% - now the economic and financial hardship is really going to start.

When the furlough scheme ends all of this good will and pulling together is gone.

People are going to have to start worrying about putting bread on the table

No, they'll have the blue passports, that's the important thing.

Wonder what the odds are of an extension  :o

Both Nicloa Sturgeon and the Labour party have called for such..

Looks like they are already starting to worry about it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53018020

I was talking about an extension to furlough..  not Brexit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on June 13, 2020, 10:02:36 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8416075/amp/Boris-Johnson-scrapped-Cabinet-Ministers-pandemic-team-six-months-coronavirus-hit-Britain.html?ito=amp_twitter_share-top&__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 13, 2020, 11:44:37 AM
China and India are reporting increased numbers of infections.

BOHICA
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 13, 2020, 01:32:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 13, 2020, 11:44:37 AM
China and India are reporting increased numbers of infections.

However, this comparison is like saying that both AC Milan and Finn Harps will suffer from restrictions on sport.
Chine has things fairly well buttoned-down and now there is a small cluster in Beijing, no doubt they'll direct resources there and sort it out. As long as it is limited to a few places they now have experienced doctors and equipment to bring in from other parts of the country. India has 100 times as many reported cases, and limited testing means this is probably a huge underestimate. Big difference.

There are also increased infections in places like Texas and Arizona. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 13, 2020, 02:15:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 13, 2020, 01:32:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 13, 2020, 11:44:37 AM
China and India are reporting increased numbers of infections.

However, this comparison is like saying that both AC Milan and Finn Harps will suffer from restrictions on sport.
Chine has things fairly well buttoned-down and now there is a small cluster in Beijing, no doubt they'll direct resources there and sort it out. As long as it is limited to a few places they now have experienced doctors and equipment to bring in from other parts of the country. India has 100 times as many reported cases, and limited testing means this is probably a huge underestimate. Big difference.

There are also increased infections in places like Texas and Arizona.
Iran and large swathes of South America too.
The WHO said this week that the virus is still expanding its reach.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 14, 2020, 06:09:02 PM
112 cases this week in ROI (137 less cases than last week)
35 deaths (1 more death than last week)

Hopefully cases fall below 100 next week and we have much less deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 14, 2020, 08:39:49 PM
More fidelity to the information is badly needed.

Where are the 7 new cases? Care homes or general public?

Any common denominators? Even what towns are they in?


Continuing with a "one size fits all" approach is poor - it'll only end up in the public ignoring advice as numbers decline and information is too approximate and no doubt: "sure its only in the care homes now, it doesn't apply to me"

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 15, 2020, 08:54:37 AM
China had its highest daily case rate in over two months. Is the second wave starting? More than likely not I hope.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 15, 2020, 09:34:28 AM
The second wave brigade are out in force now after hiding for a few weeks since the virus has been on the wane.
More cases along the way is unavoidable it really is. In Ireland here we are going to see more cases down the line but the key to this is that more than likely 1 in 10 will need hospital treatment and 1-100 who get it will need ICU. Now Florida have seen a spike in cases but hospital admissions has dropped dramatically in the same time. People need to realise this. A doctor in Florida said this morning yes we are getting more cases but the virus is less affective.
Scaremongering is hitting new heights
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 15, 2020, 10:03:13 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 15, 2020, 08:54:37 AM
China had its highest daily case rate in over two months. Is the second wave starting? More than likely not I hope.

Yes, the fire has reignited, but in this case they are fire watchers positioned around and a fleet of fire trucks waiting to be dispatched to any outbreak. They can control it. But the point is that vigilance is needed.

Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 15, 2020, 09:34:28 AM
The second wave brigade are out in force now after hiding for a few weeks since the virus has been on the wane.
More cases along the way is unavoidable it really is. In Ireland here we are going to see more cases down the line but the key to this is that more than likely 1 in 10 will need hospital treatment and 1-100 who get it will need ICU. Now Florida have seen a spike in cases but hospital admissions has dropped dramatically in the same time. People need to realise this. A doctor in Florida said this morning yes we are getting more cases but the virus is less affective.

More data is needed about who exactly is getting the disease to make the call on this. Older people are reasonably trying to avoid it while younger people don't give a damn. Perhaps it is changing and that would be great.


QuoteScaremongering is hitting new heights

AsI I said vigilence is needed, it hasn't gone away you know. We don't need scaremongering, we don't need the pretence that the problem has gone away, we need rational behaviour.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 15, 2020, 10:03:46 AM

Senior hurling

https://www.ft.com/content/d9e52589-ea36-4900-be1e-693387887097

Half of Beijing's districts reported new coronavirus cases on Monday in the country's most serious upsurge in infections for months. Authorities announced that 79 people had been hospitalised and there were 36 new infections in the Chinese capital, a day after more than 75,000 tests were conducted in the city of 20m. The cluster of infections linked to Beijing's largest seafood and vegetable market has become the most serious outbreak since China said it had largely succeeded in controlling the pandemic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 15, 2020, 10:08:54 AM
No young people done what they were asked to do
To say the don't give a damn is wrong
The fire will be lite until a vaccine is found but it will be quickly put out
The chances of getting this virus is very low
The chances of getting it and going into ICU is extremely low
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 15, 2020, 10:51:43 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 15, 2020, 10:08:54 AM
No young people done what they were asked to do
To say the don't give a damn is wrong
The fire will be lite until a vaccine is found but it will be quickly put out
The chances of getting this virus is very low
The chances of getting it and going into ICU is extremely low

With only 95% of people actually contracting the virus surely this virus will be around for a while yet?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 15, 2020, 12:07:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 15, 2020, 10:51:43 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 15, 2020, 10:08:54 AM
No young people done what they were asked to do
To say the don't give a damn is wrong
The fire will be lite until a vaccine is found but it will be quickly put out
The chances of getting this virus is very low
The chances of getting it and going into ICU is extremely low

With only 95% of people actually contracting the virus surely this virus will be around for a while yet?

Department of Health scientific data indicates there could be repeated waves of the coronavirus outbreak and they could be much worse that what Northern Ireland has already experienced and with "much greater" deaths.
Modelling, released by the department late on Sunday evening shows less than 5% of the population have recovered from Covid-19 - meaning that over 95% of people in Northern Ireland are susceptible.
It also indicated what could happen if the rate of infections - the R rate - rose from its current level of below one, to 1.2 or above - resulting in "repeated waves" of the epidemic if restrictions are not put in place at different times over the rest of the year.
If the R rate rose to 1.5 in early October, a second wave of the epidemic could result in close to 800 patients requiring intensive care support. That would overwhelm the health system which currently has 98 ICU beds available.
In another scenario where the R rate rose to 1.3, the epidemic could peak in early December with just over 300 patients requiring ICU support if measures taken to suppress the virus were ineffective - resulting in "much greater" deaths than in the first wave, according to the document.

If the rate rose to 1.2, it means the epidemic would still be increasing at the end of 2020 and over 100 patients would be in critical care.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 15, 2020, 12:57:35 PM
It hasn't gone away you know.
I fear that like all colds and flus it may come at us strongly from October on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on June 15, 2020, 01:32:38 PM
Open her up if we die we die , this can't go on indefinitely, poverty levels will go through the roof eventually and it will be much worse , lesser of two evils surely ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hereiam on June 15, 2020, 02:21:39 PM
I think its time things opened again, the current situation cannot continue or there is going to be serious repercussions to society as a whole. I think if the message of washing your hands and stay at home if you develop flue symptoms is kept up i do believe we can ride this out until a vaccine is developed. I know when I would catch a cold in the past it would have to be a very bad one for me to take the day off, but now if i feel one coming on i will be stayin at home until it runs it course or get tested if its still an option.

A common sense approach is needed here and I know there are alot of people who just don't listen but if the vast majority do the right things we should be ok.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on June 15, 2020, 02:32:27 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 15, 2020, 09:34:28 AM
The second wave brigade are out in force now

Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 15, 2020, 09:34:28 AM
Scaremongering is hitting new heights

Demonising people who have a different opinion to yourself, using troll-like language, is the right-wing culture war way of "debating", ie. not debating at all.

You need to realise that you are not a virologist or epidemiologist and that virologists and epidemiologists with different, evidence based opinions to you, who warn that this virus is likely still in its early stages, are not "scaremongering". They are being highly responsible.

Dismissing the threat of the virus - as you continually do, for what reasons I do not know but they smack of somebody who desperately wants to believe something for which there is basically no evidence - is highly irresponsible.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on June 15, 2020, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 15, 2020, 02:32:27 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 15, 2020, 09:34:28 AM
The second wave brigade are out in force now

Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 15, 2020, 09:34:28 AM
Scaremongering is hitting new heights

Demonising people who have a different opinion to yourself, using troll-like language, is the right-wing culture war way of "debating", ie. not debating at all.

You need to realise that you are not a virologist or epidemiologist and that virologists and epidemiologists with different, evidence based opinions to you, who warn that this virus is likely still in its early stages, are not "scaremongering". They are being highly responsible.

Dismissing the threat of the virus - as you continually do, for what reasons I do not know but they smack of somebody who desperately wants to believe something for which there is basically no evidence - is highly irresponsible.

Spot on Sid!

There's an awful lot of this type of rhetoric going around that we've all been duped and that people have next to no chance of catching this.

What people need to realise is that if we hadn't gone down the road we did with lock down and social distancing, the infection and death rates would be much higher.
The fact that the measures have worked so far in this country does not diminish the risk the virus poses. If 95% of the population (NI) haven't caught the virus yet, as is reported, that is 19 times more people than have already caught it. If we were to assume 100% of people were to contract the virus, that could mean 19 times more deaths...even if we use the official figures and not the more accurate NISRA figures of excess deaths, that would mean the number of deaths would be in the region of 10K. If we were to use the excess deaths figures then we would be looking at closer to 20K deaths if there was 100% infection rate. 10-20K people dying of a disease in a place as small as here is substantial by any measure.

I think a lot of people just assume that the lock down had no impact at all on spread and the unfortunate thing is it would probably take a second more severe wave of this to convince them.
Some people never listen until it's too late.

Looking at China today and their response to a new cluster just adds more weight the to the probability of more outbreaks here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: the goal was on on June 15, 2020, 03:05:52 PM
the reality is covid is a highly infectious disease. You only have to look at hows its spread around the world to realise that. Locks downs were key to both managaing it and increasing awareness of how we must now live to ensure we can minimise the spread. When GAA returns its likely at some stage to see cases but you hope we are in a position to control these should that happen. Whats unacceptable is clubs and county teams who are currently flounting gaa and government laws.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 15, 2020, 03:33:18 PM
No Sid its an opinion ok. This chat only gets going when bad news is out iut.
Some people thrive on getting the bad news going.
95% have it and there lies my point
We will gets spikes that is unavoidable but we now have the things in place to deal with it
Don't forget only 13% of the people at the start of this who got it needed hospital treatment. It now seems like it is not as deadly as once was so I would imagine that to now be down to as low as 5%.
So imagine we had a massive massive speak say our worst day 160 cases 8 would need hospital treatment
Milltown you still milking the furlong?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on June 15, 2020, 03:40:59 PM
Giddy up !
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 15, 2020, 03:45:09 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 15, 2020, 03:33:18 PM
No Sid its an opinion ok. This chat only gets going when bad news is out iut.
Some people thrive on getting the bad news going.
95% have it and there lies my point
We will gets spikes that is unavoidable but we now have the things in place to deal with it
Don't forget only 13% of the people at the start of this who got it needed hospital treatment. It now seems like it is not as deadly as once was so I would imagine that to now be down to as low as 5%.
So imagine we had a massive massive speak say our worst day 160 cases 8 would need hospital treatment
Milltown you still milking the furlong?

Only 5% have had it (in da Nort) not 95%.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 15, 2020, 03:47:03 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/e5f20455-4422-4eea-9c51-b083040a0878


   US scientists have found the first direct evidence that coronavirus could infect the human brain and replicate inside its cells, heightening concern about the disease's poorly understood neurological symptoms.

Thomas Hartung and colleagues at Johns Hopkins University made the discovery after adding low levels of Sars-Cov-2, the virus responsible for Covid-19, to tiny neuronal balls known as mini-brains that are grown from human stem cells.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 15, 2020, 03:56:48 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 15, 2020, 09:34:28 AM
The second wave brigade are out in force now after hiding for a few weeks since the virus has been on the wane.
More cases along the way is unavoidable it really is. In Ireland here we are going to see more cases down the line but the key to this is that more than likely 1 in 10 will need hospital treatment and 1-100 who get it will need ICU. Now Florida have seen a spike in cases but hospital admissions has dropped dramatically in the same time. People need to realise this. A doctor in Florida said this morning yes we are getting more cases but the virus is less affective.
Scaremongering is hitting new heights

Ern, I did say more than likely not at the end of the comment. As armaghniac put it, people are more aware of what has to be done this time around.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 15, 2020, 04:01:24 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 15, 2020, 03:33:18 PM
No Sid its an opinion ok. This chat only gets going when bad news is out iut.
Some people thrive on getting the bad news going.
95% have it and there lies my point
We will gets spikes that is unavoidable but we now have the things in place to deal with it
Don't forget only 13% of the people at the start of this who got it needed hospital treatment. It now seems like it is not as deadly as once was so I would imagine that to now be down to as low as 5%.
So imagine we had a massive massive speak say our worst day 160 cases 8 would need hospital treatment
Milltown you still milking the furlong?

Yeah like lock downs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 15, 2020, 04:34:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2020, 10:03:46 AM

Senior hurling

https://www.ft.com/content/d9e52589-ea36-4900-be1e-693387887097

Half of Beijing's districts reported new coronavirus cases on Monday in the country's most serious upsurge in infections for months. Authorities announced that 79 people had been hospitalised and there were 36 new infections in the Chinese capital, a day after more than 75,000 tests were conducted in the city of 20m. The cluster of infections linked to Beijing's largest seafood and vegetable market has become the most serious outbreak since China said it had largely succeeded in controlling the pandemic.

This shows the problem but also the solution.  You test everyone and everyone who knows everyone and hope to get all the cases, this is a 0.05% positivity rate in the tests, The problem is that if you have a  market and you don't track people who visit it then you cannot easily test all the people you should be testing. Note that the article says that restaurants and other businesses were again required to collect personal information of customers, only a week after such measures were relaxed.

Quote from: tbrick18 on June 15, 2020, 02:45:41 PM
I think a lot of people just assume that the lock down had no impact at all on spread and the unfortunate thing is it would probably take a second more severe wave of this to convince them.
Some people never listen until it's too late.

Looking at China today and their response to a new cluster just adds more weight the to the probability of more outbreaks here.

Sadly some people have no shame about talking bollix without any basis whatsover. The Chinese have shown the way, lockdown, get rid of the virus as far as you can, then blanket test around any cases that are left. Expecting it to go away by itself is nonsense and dangerous nonsense at that.

As Sam McConkey said at the weekend it is no good tests taking 3 days, they should take 3 hours, and if anyone comes up positive their contacts should be traced that day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 15, 2020, 05:38:13 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 15, 2020, 03:33:18 PM
No Sid its an opinion ok. This chat only gets going when bad news is out iut.
Some people thrive on getting the bad news going.
95% have it and there lies my point
We will gets spikes that is unavoidable but we now have the things in place to deal with it
Don't forget only 13% of the people at the start of this who got it needed hospital treatment. It now seems like it is not as deadly as once was so I would imagine that to now be down to as low as 5%.
So imagine we had a massive massive speak say our worst day 160 cases 8 would need hospital treatment
Milltown you still milking the furlong?

So this thread has went off the first page due lack of deaths or bad need? Again not true, there have been posts every day.

Seems like it's not as deadly? Link to that one please? Has it mutated to a common cold?

Say we get a second wave and it registers 10,000 deaths on the island, I'm using your logic Btw, guessing, it's easy that.

As for work yep back at it though just prepping for next week when we actually are really back.  Drove to Dublin Citywest direction, took 1h35mins from my door in Jordanstown. No traffic obviously furloughed still big in the South
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 15, 2020, 06:30:16 PM
Good to see no deaths reported today in the ROI. Average of 17 new cases over the past week and it was at 57 just two weeks ago.  ICU down to 23 with no new admissions in the last 6 days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 15, 2020, 07:46:24 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on June 15, 2020, 06:30:16 PM
Good to see no deaths reported today in the ROI. Average of 17 new cases over the past week and it was at 57 just two weeks ago.  ICU down to 23 with no new admissions in the last 6 days.

It is going the right direction. However, the number of cases here that everyone thinks is grand, but a similar number of cases pro rate in Beijing and they've pretty much declared an emergency.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 15, 2020, 08:19:32 PM
Prof Smurfy needs to go to Beijing and tell them Chinese it's nothing to worry about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on June 16, 2020, 01:03:08 AM
Quote from: hardstation on June 15, 2020, 06:22:59 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 15, 2020, 03:33:18 PM
No Sid its an opinion ok. This chat only gets going when bad news is out iut.
Some people thrive on getting the bad news going.
95% have it and there lies my point
We will gets spikes that is unavoidable but we now have the things in place to deal with it
Don't forget only 13% of the people at the start of this who got it needed hospital treatment. It now seems like it is not as deadly as once was so I would imagine that to now be down to as low as 5%.
So imagine we had a massive massive speak say our worst day 160 cases 8 would need hospital treatment
Milltown you still milking the furlong?
Why do you keep calling it furlong? At this stage, you're bound to have heard/read the word furlough at least 1000 times. Why can't you pick it up? Sort it out to fcuk!
Maybe it's a Freudian slip that he suspects there's eight furloughs in a Coronavirus pandemic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 16, 2020, 01:11:14 AM
Perhaps he thinks Milltown is a horse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 16, 2020, 09:20:35 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 15, 2020, 07:46:24 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on June 15, 2020, 06:30:16 PM
Good to see no deaths reported today in the ROI. Average of 17 new cases over the past week and it was at 57 just two weeks ago.  ICU down to 23 with no new admissions in the last 6 days.

It is going the right direction. However, the number of cases here that everyone thinks is grand, but a similar number of cases pro rate in Beijing and they've pretty much declared an emergency.

It is grand, considering this virus took precedence over anybody, with anything else wrong with them medically on the island for the last few months.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 16, 2020, 09:41:53 AM
The Chinese will have the fire out by the weekend
Out of the new cases not one needed hospital treatment. Let's all dramatise things to make it sound like the second wave is here so furlong can be milked until Christmas
To many men on here enjoying BBQS and lying in bed until 1everyday. Face the real world lads as it's getting back to normal.
What about the talk on here about the
Easing lockdown
Easter spike
VHE spike
Beaches packed spike
Marching spike

Still waiting
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on June 16, 2020, 09:44:35 AM
That's some milking Furlong is gonna be getting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 16, 2020, 09:53:40 AM
The question is really, how many furlongs have we got to go before reaching the finishing post?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on June 16, 2020, 10:47:40 AM
Jeez lads the man made a typo, this joke has been going on fur too long
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 16, 2020, 11:11:03 AM

   https://www.ft.com/content/d68d6292-0486-4bfc-bf5c-54ce850a3f7a

   "Coronavirus is constantly attacking society's vulnerable classes and spaces," says Park Won-soon, the mayor of Seoul. "We must shake off the fantasy that we can go back to the past we were accustomed to."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 16, 2020, 11:32:04 AM
£100 million spent on the devils brew during lockdown (in da Nort)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 16, 2020, 01:00:17 PM
Ach we were told of surges and peaks. Bodies everywhere. Unfathomable deaths. None of which came to pass. There hasn't been 2500 deaths on the whole island.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 16, 2020, 01:05:38 PM
NZ reporting their first new cases post lockdown. UK vistors flying in bringing it with them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on June 16, 2020, 01:06:27 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

was on the phone to a Liverpool company just yesterday and my contact over there had lost his father and uncle to Coronavirus.

Wonder does he think it's the biggest load of shíte.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 16, 2020, 01:07:51 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 16, 2020, 12:49:11 PM
Right thinking people know very little more than anyone else. For example, they are only marginally more knowledgeable than Ashley Cole. Give me 24 hours of reading up and I could be as right thinking as anyone.

LOL!!  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 16, 2020, 01:08:00 PM
Trailer speaks a lot of sense
Close all until 2021 was mentioned on here only a number of weeks ago
We were told the NHS will be overwhelmed
Schools closed at the right time but it's now time to reopen.
To many men on here getting the easy money
Lockdown has been brilliant for some
Let's all now concentrate on banging the second wave drum see can we get furlonged beyond Christmas
We will give the BBQs some action this year
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on June 16, 2020, 01:09:43 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 16, 2020, 01:05:38 PM
NZ reporting their first new cases post lockdown. UK vistors flying in bringing it with them.

Back for a funeral it appears, would have thought NZ had a strict 14 day isolation period for anyone coming from the UK.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 16, 2020, 01:11:11 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 16, 2020, 01:09:43 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 16, 2020, 01:05:38 PM
NZ reporting their first new cases post lockdown. UK vistors flying in bringing it with them.

Back for a funeral it appears, would have thought NZ had a strict 14 day isolation period for anyone coming from the UK.

They did, but made an exception because of circumstances.

Turned out the person died before they could even make it along anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on June 16, 2020, 01:29:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

Any right thinking people I know are of the opinion that the reason why we haven't had the number of deaths that were projected in a worst case scenario, is because of the fact we took measures and locked down to avoid that worst case scenario.

To put it in simple terms for you (as I think this is required):
      No Lockdown => more deaths
      Lockdown => less deaths

In your opinion, are you saying we shouldn't have done any of it? No Lockdown => Less Deaths?
That's so far wrong it's like saying 2+2=93.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 16, 2020, 01:31:30 PM
Dexamethasone worth a google at minute, just breaking.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 16, 2020, 01:33:24 PM
Great news over the bar
Some people on here will not want too see that
Great stuff
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 16, 2020, 01:47:22 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 16, 2020, 01:06:27 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

was on the phone to a Liverpool company just yesterday and my contact over there had lost his father and uncle to Coronavirus.

Wonder does he think it's the biggest load of shíte.

Every lost life is a tragedy, no matter what they die from.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on June 16, 2020, 02:04:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 01:47:22 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 16, 2020, 01:06:27 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

was on the phone to a Liverpool company just yesterday and my contact over there had lost his father and uncle to Coronavirus.

Wonder does he think it's the biggest load of shíte.

Every lost life is a tragedy, no matter what they die from.

Yes, but knowingly allowing people to freely mingle in public with the threat of a virus spreading like wildfire that may kill many vulnerable people is genocide in my mind.

Boris was going all hell for leather but tried to change tack mid stream but still over 60K have died and counting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on June 16, 2020, 02:16:58 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 16, 2020, 02:04:56 PM

Yes, but knowingly allowing people to freely mingle in public with the threat of a virus spreading like wildfire that may kill many vulnerable people is genocide in my mind.


You need a dictionary.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on June 16, 2020, 02:43:27 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 01:47:22 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 16, 2020, 01:06:27 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

was on the phone to a Liverpool company just yesterday and my contact over there had lost his father and uncle to Coronavirus.

Wonder does he think it's the biggest load of shíte.

Every lost life is a tragedy, no matter what they die from.

A politicians soundbite, empty words without empathy or humanity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 16, 2020, 03:03:22 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 16, 2020, 01:29:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

Any right thinking people I know are of the opinion that the reason why we haven't had the number of deaths that were projected in a worst case scenario, is because of the fact we took measures and locked down to avoid that worst case scenario.

To put it in simple terms for you (as I think this is required):
      No Lockdown => more deaths
      Lockdown => less deaths

In your opinion, are you saying we shouldn't have done any of it? No Lockdown => Less Deaths?
That's so far wrong it's like saying 2+2=93.

tbrick do you not know when you jump out of plane - deploy your parachute and find its slowed your fall - halfway down is the perfect time to cut the parachute loose - sure its clearly worked so why continue with it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on June 16, 2020, 03:34:06 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 16, 2020, 03:03:22 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 16, 2020, 01:29:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

Any right thinking people I know are of the opinion that the reason why we haven't had the number of deaths that were projected in a worst case scenario, is because of the fact we took measures and locked down to avoid that worst case scenario.

To put it in simple terms for you (as I think this is required):
      No Lockdown => more deaths
      Lockdown => less deaths

In your opinion, are you saying we shouldn't have done any of it? No Lockdown => Less Deaths?
That's so far wrong it's like saying 2+2=93.

tbrick do you not know when you jump out of plane - deploy your parachute and find its slowed your fall - halfway down is the perfect time to cut the parachute loose - sure its clearly worked so why continue with it?

When you put it that way.......i'd still choose lockdown  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 16, 2020, 03:35:03 PM
Where has this virus "spread like wildfire"? Lockdown or not?

Everyone to a man I have spoken with believes it has been hugely over hyped including medical professionals, business owners and employees.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 16, 2020, 03:40:02 PM
It's like a bad flu season going by the statistics
2008 was bad
98 worse than this year
2010 not much better
Scaremongering on this page
To many men milking the furlong
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on June 16, 2020, 03:41:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 03:35:03 PM
Where has this virus "spread like wildfire"? Lockdown or not?

Everyone to a man I have spoken with believes it has been hugely over hyped including medical professionals, business owners and employees.

England? USA? Italy? Spain? Brazil? Iran?

Thankfully there has been none at all in North Korea and very little in Russia.

If everyone you have spoken to believes it has been hugely over hyped, then I suggest you speak to a few more people.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on June 16, 2020, 03:53:03 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 16, 2020, 03:41:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 03:35:03 PM
Where has this virus "spread like wildfire"? Lockdown or not?

Everyone to a man I have spoken with believes it has been hugely over hyped including medical professionals, business owners and employees.

England? USA? Italy? Spain? Brazil? Iran?

Thankfully there has been none at all in North Korea and very little in Russia.

If everyone you have spoken to believes it has been hugely over hyped, then I suggest you speak to a few more people.

No wildfire spreads as unevenly as Covid-19 has done. Put simply, it wrought havoc wherever hospitals and care homes were ill-prepared, a lot less so where they weren't. The comparison between Lombardy and Veneto is stark. https://www.ft.com/content/9c75d47f-49ee-4613-add1-a692b97d95d3
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on June 16, 2020, 03:58:08 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 16, 2020, 03:40:02 PM
It's like a bad flu season going by the statistics
2008 was bad
98 worse than this year
2010 not much better
Scaremongering on this page
To many men milking the furlong

there's an additional 60K excess deaths in the UK and that's on top of the normal flu deaths that are expected.

I think you spend too much time milking yourself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 16, 2020, 03:58:42 PM
Can't argue with that five
And that's why England were a shambles from the word go. They hadn't a clue what to do even though they had time to prepare compared to Italy.
A good reason deaths are falling dramatically is hospitals seem to now know how to treat it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 16, 2020, 04:03:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 03:35:03 PM
Where has this virus "spread like wildfire"? Lockdown or not?

Everyone to a man I have spoken with believes it has been hugely over hyped including medical professionals, business owners and employees.

maybe speak to someone that has lost a loved one from it and ask them if it was over hyped?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on June 16, 2020, 04:03:29 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 16, 2020, 03:58:42 PM
Can't argue with that five
And that's why England were a shambles from the word go. They hadn't a clue what to do even though they had time to prepare compared to Italy.
A good reason deaths are falling dramatically is hospitals seem to now know how to treat it

The UK Gov had plenty of a clue but were prepared to ride it out in an attempt to keep the economy as strong as possible in the face of Brexit.

They've fúcked up both.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on June 16, 2020, 04:08:38 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 16, 2020, 04:03:29 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 16, 2020, 03:58:42 PM
Can't argue with that five
And that's why England were a shambles from the word go. They hadn't a clue what to do even though they had time to prepare compared to Italy.
A good reason deaths are falling dramatically is hospitals seem to now know how to treat it

The UK Gov had plenty of a clue but were prepared to ride it out in an attempt to keep the economy as strong as possible in the face of Brexit.

They've fúcked up both.

Damn all they could have done in a few weeks. Basically, the lesson of Lombary v Veneto is that anywhere that had a health system based on large general hospitals was a sitting duck for Covid 19 while places with old-fashioned networks of small hospitals got away lighly.

The UK and England in particular went down the former road many decades ago as more recently did Ireland. For example, 35 years ago Cavan, then as now a mickey-mouse town, had 3 separate hospitals that were all replaced by a single general hospital.  Covid ran riot there, leaving the county for a long time with the worst infection rate per capita on the island.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 16, 2020, 04:12:10 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 16, 2020, 03:41:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 03:35:03 PM
Where has this virus "spread like wildfire"? Lockdown or not?

Everyone to a man I have spoken with believes it has been hugely over hyped including medical professionals, business owners and employees.

England? USA? Italy? Spain? Brazil? Iran?

Thankfully there has been none at all in North Korea and very little in Russia.

If everyone you have spoken to believes it has been hugely over hyped, then I suggest you speak to a few more people.

The Supreme Leader vanquished the Novel Coronavirus when he returned from a leisurely run up Mount Paektu after a decidedly average 18 under par at his local course in the hours before had left him unfulfilled.

The Supreme Leader reportedly coughed into the air, a double rainbow appeared and from that moment on the Glorious Peoples Republic citizens were instantly immune from the virus which only appears to affect decadent Westerners.

The Supreme Leader then returned to the course, more determined than ever to shoot a record 30 under par.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on June 16, 2020, 04:25:41 PM
Quote from: five points on June 16, 2020, 04:08:38 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 16, 2020, 04:03:29 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 16, 2020, 03:58:42 PM
Can't argue with that five
And that's why England were a shambles from the word go. They hadn't a clue what to do even though they had time to prepare compared to Italy.
A good reason deaths are falling dramatically is hospitals seem to now know how to treat it

The UK Gov had plenty of a clue but were prepared to ride it out in an attempt to keep the economy as strong as possible in the face of Brexit.

They've fúcked up both.

Damn all they could have done in a few weeks. Basically, the lesson of Lombary v Veneto is that anywhere that had a health system based on large general hospitals was a sitting duck for Covid 19 while places with old-fashioned networks of small hospitals got away lighly.

The UK and England in particular went down the former road many decades ago as more recently did Ireland. For example, 35 years ago Cavan, then as now a mickey-mouse town, had 3 separate hospitals that were all replaced by a single general hospital where Covid ran riot, leaving the county for a long time with the worst infection rate per capita on the island.

By the end of January they knew it was coming but their arrogant exceptionalism lulled them into a false sense of security and they did SFA to increase ventilators, PPE, testing capacity, contact tracing and the likes, all which was highlighted as issues when they dry run a pandemic impact in 2016.
They've been weeks/months late at every stage of the process.

Waiting until the end of March to dump as many elderly out of hospitals into the care sector without testing them to free up beds in hospitals was a catastrophe, but hey Covid wasn't/isn't that bad....

UK still posting quite high numbers of new cases daily, 900 plus yesterday but hopefully as you point out new treatments reduce the mortality rates.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 04:29:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

Did your survey include those families that lost loved ones?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 16, 2020, 05:14:54 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on June 16, 2020, 03:41:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 03:35:03 PM
Where has this virus "spread like wildfire"? Lockdown or not?

Everyone to a man I have spoken with believes it has been hugely over hyped including medical professionals, business owners and employees.

England? USA? Italy? Spain? Brazil? Iran?

Thankfully there has been none at all in North Korea and very little in Russia.

If everyone you have spoken to believes it has been hugely over hyped, then I suggest you speak to a few more people.

Really? It spread like wildfire? Even in England it didn't spread like wildfire.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 16, 2020, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 04:29:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

Did your survey include those families that lost loved ones?

I don't know anyone who lost a loved one and I don't have any friends or employees who lost a love one or even knew anyone who died from it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on June 16, 2020, 05:28:10 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 01:00:17 PM
Ach we were told of surges and peaks. Bodies everywhere. Unfathomable deaths. None of which came to pass. There hasn't been 2500 deaths on the whole island.

You sound disappointed that things weren't as bad in Ieland as predicted. While the Island of Ireland has made a decent effort at containing this virus I think I speak for everyone and wished the death toll was a lot lower but perhaps lessons learnt if that dreaded 2nd wave hits later this year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on June 16, 2020, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 04:29:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

Did your survey include those families that lost loved ones?

I don't know anyone who lost a loved one and I don't have any friends or employees who lost a love one or even knew anyone who died from it.

We're going to need a bigger sample size  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 07:45:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 04:29:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

Did your survey include those families that lost loved ones?

I don't know anyone who lost a loved one and I don't have any friends or employees who lost a love one or even knew anyone who died from it.

I would need to doublecheck but I think 65,000 people or so have died....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 16, 2020, 07:49:26 PM
He didn't know any of them though...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 16, 2020, 08:13:17 PM
Quote from: five points on June 16, 2020, 04:08:38 PM
Damn all they could have done in a few weeks.

Yeah, nothing they could have done....

Except of course:
- Advise against travel to Northern Italy
- Explicitly forbid school trips to Northern Italy
- Prepare interim care homes for patients displaced from hospital to care homes whose COVID status was undetermined
- Assemble a large contact tracing system to quickly identify and immediate contacts of all COVID carriers - if testing were unavailable then tell them to strictly isolate their household and supplies will be brought to their door.
- Instigate social distancing measures a few weeks earlier

aside from those, nothing they could have done.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 16, 2020, 08:43:20 PM
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/12040/12008183/digital-health-passports-could-help-get-football-fans-back-into-stadiums

Would you sign up for something like this / be in favour?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 16, 2020, 09:00:59 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 16, 2020, 08:43:20 PM
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/12040/12008183/digital-health-passports-could-help-get-football-fans-back-into-stadiums

Would you sign up for something like this / be in favour?

Why can't that be used for travel? Put it into the cost covered for holidays
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 16, 2020, 10:12:43 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 07:45:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 04:29:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

Did your survey include those families that lost loved ones?

I don't know anyone who lost a loved one and I don't have any friends or employees who lost a love one or even knew anyone who died from it.

I would need to doublecheck but I think 65,000 people or so have died....

And that is a shocking figure. But the fact remains this is a disease of the over 70s. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 16, 2020, 10:24:14 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 10:12:43 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 07:45:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 04:29:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

Did your survey include those families that lost loved ones?

I don't know anyone who lost a loved one and I don't have any friends or employees who lost a love one or even knew anyone who died from it.

I would need to doublecheck but I think 65,000 people or so have died....

And that is a shocking figure. But the fact remains this is a disease of the over 70s.
Well that's okay then. Who cares about the over 70s?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 16, 2020, 10:27:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 03:35:03 PM
Where has this virus "spread like wildfire"? Lockdown or not?

Everyone to a man I have spoken with believes it has been hugely over hyped including medical professionals, business owners and employees.

Italy. Spain. New York. UK.

The places that locked down the earliest were the ones that got off the lightest. California locked down early, and some CA counties locked down even earlier than the state, saving thousands of lives.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 17, 2020, 07:53:11 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 10:12:43 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 07:45:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 04:29:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

Did your survey include those families that lost loved ones?

I don't know anyone who lost a loved one and I don't have any friends or employees who lost a love one or even knew anyone who died from it.

I would need to doublecheck but I think 65,000 people or so have died....

And that is a shocking figure. But the fact remains this is a disease of the over 70s.

Again trailer - we have been over this many many times - it is not a disease of the over 70's.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 09:10:03 AM
Using the virus in isolation you could throw out numbers left right and centre
Smoking accounts for 2000 deaths a week in the uk
Cancer 3000 a week
Every death is terrible but men firing  out numbers doesn't add up
A really bad flu year had been no different than this year
2008
2010
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on June 17, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 09:10:03 AM
Using the virus in isolation you could throw out numbers left right and centre
Smoking accounts for 2000 deaths a week in the uk
Cancer 3000 a week
Every death is terrible but men firing  out numbers doesn't add up
A really bad flu year had been no different than this year
2008
2010

Excess deaths clearly shows that Covid has made the death toll worse what are you talking about??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 09:43:12 AM
50100 excess flu deaths in 2017/18 what do you say about that ?
Highest on record since 75/76
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 17, 2020, 09:44:27 AM
Quote from: screenexile on June 17, 2020, 09:21:19 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 09:10:03 AM
Using the virus in isolation you could throw out numbers left right and centre
Smoking accounts for 2000 deaths a week in the uk
Cancer 3000 a week
Every death is terrible but men firing  out numbers doesn't add up
A really bad flu year had been no different than this year
2008
2010

Excess deaths clearly shows that Covid has made the death toll worse what are you talking about??

In the interest of fairness to Smurfy on this issue regarding smoking, you might have Covid when you pass away. Doesn't necessarily mean you died from it.

Getting the statistics of smokers for all the UK/Ireland figures would make for very interesting reading. I'd be willing to bet the big companies will be doing their best to make sure that never sees light of day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 17, 2020, 09:51:57 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 09:43:12 AM
50100 excess flu deaths in 2017/18 what do you say about that ?
Highest on record since 75/76

Imagine what the excess deaths would be this year if we didn't lockdown.

Its estimated only 5% have got it - so multiply the current fatality rate by 20 and you have an absolute minimum figure. 1.2 million. That a bad flu year?

In reality, it would, as we've learned from elsewhere like Lombardy, be much higher as the case mortality rate skyrockets when the health systems collapse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2020, 10:02:22 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 17, 2020, 09:51:57 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 09:43:12 AM
50100 excess flu deaths in 2017/18 what do you say about that ?
Highest on record since 75/76

Imagine what the excess deaths would be this year if we didn't lockdown.

Its estimated only 5% have got it - so multiply the current fatality rate by 20 and you have an absolute minimum figure. 1.2 million. That a bad flu year?

In reality, it would, as we've learned from elsewhere like Lombardy, be much higher as the case mortality rate skyrockets when the health systems collapse.

This is the bit Smurfy is determined to ignore. There was 60K deaths in UK with a lockdown. The flu deaths are with no lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 10:09:16 AM
A very very very small amount of people who get it need hospital treatment
How about at the start when nobody knew what was going on everyone that had it went to hospital
How about when you were in hospital the staff didn't know how to treat it
How about now when you get it most now go home and recover in the house
How about hospitals now know exactly how to deal with it
Now I'm not saying lockdown wasn't call for a flatten the curve
But a massive reason as to why the virus is coming down is that hospitals know exactly how to deal with it and people who have it and are healthy don't need hospital treatment
It's quite laughable watching the scaremongers firing out about the spikes all across America but don't get to the real nitty gritty that hospital administrations in America is falling dramatically week on week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 17, 2020, 10:10:50 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 17, 2020, 07:53:11 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 10:12:43 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 07:45:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 04:29:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

Did your survey include those families that lost loved ones?

I don't know anyone who lost a loved one and I don't have any friends or employees who lost a love one or even knew anyone who died from it.

I would need to doublecheck but I think 65,000 people or so have died....

And that is a shocking figure. But the fact remains this is a disease of the over 70s.

Again trailer - we have been over this many many times - it is not a disease of the over 70's.

Yes it is.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/15/covid-19-coronavirus-breakdown-of-deaths-and-infections-worldwide (https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/15/covid-19-coronavirus-breakdown-of-deaths-and-infections-worldwide)

Go down and look at the graph titled Which age groups is Italy's COVID-19 outbreak deadliest for?

It cannot be denied. The risk to healthy young people is minuscule.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 10:23:34 AM
WOW
Fair play trailer
It was a time for cool heads when the virus was on its way
All over 60s in complete lockdown and the most vulnerable
Keep the schools open and the economy going
We would have a lot more infected now and not as many deaths
To much time wasted in getting the old and vulnerable sorted
If some teachers couldn't teach because they were in the older bracket fine get the substitute teachers straight in.
People won't like to face up to those facts but it's true
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2020, 10:25:33 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 10:09:16 AM
A very very very small amount of people who get it need hospital treatment
How about at the start when nobody knew what was going on everyone that had it went to hospital
How about when you were in hospital the staff didn't know how to treat it
How about now when you get it most now go home and recover in the house
How about hospitals now know exactly how to deal with it
Now I'm not saying lockdown wasn't call for a flatten the curve
But a massive reason as to why the virus is coming down is that hospitals know exactly how to deal with it and people who have it and are healthy don't need hospital treatment
It's quite laughable watching the scaremongers firing out about the spikes all across America but don't get to the real nitty gritty that hospital administrations in America is falling dramatically week on week.

No it's not. The stats were out this week to say that only about 5% of people have had it. The numbers are coming down because the lockdown stopped the spread, so lower numbers were exposed and infected. No lock down means that much more than 5% would be infected and the rest of the rates (Hospital treatment, ICU deaths etc) would rise as well.
There is good news in this drug that seems to be having a positive effect. But they are doing things right now as the economy needs to be given a chance and things need to be re-opened. Which they are doing in phases. The right approach.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2020, 10:27:26 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2020, 10:10:50 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 17, 2020, 07:53:11 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 10:12:43 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 07:45:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 04:29:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

Did your survey include those families that lost loved ones?

I don't know anyone who lost a loved one and I don't have any friends or employees who lost a love one or even knew anyone who died from it.

I would need to doublecheck but I think 65,000 people or so have died....

And that is a shocking figure. But the fact remains this is a disease of the over 70s.

Again trailer - we have been over this many many times - it is not a disease of the over 70's.

Yes it is.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/15/covid-19-coronavirus-breakdown-of-deaths-and-infections-worldwide (https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/15/covid-19-coronavirus-breakdown-of-deaths-and-infections-worldwide)

Go down and look at the graph titled Which age groups is Italy's COVID-19 outbreak deadliest for?

It cannot be denied. The risk to healthy young people is minuscule.

Which would be great if the community was made up of under 70, healthy people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 17, 2020, 10:27:41 AM
Like worldwide the death toll is 450k.
All I am asking for is a tiny bit of perspective.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 17, 2020, 10:29:48 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2020, 10:27:26 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2020, 10:10:50 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 17, 2020, 07:53:11 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 10:12:43 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 07:45:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 04:29:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

Did your survey include those families that lost loved ones?

I don't know anyone who lost a loved one and I don't have any friends or employees who lost a love one or even knew anyone who died from it.

I would need to doublecheck but I think 65,000 people or so have died....

And that is a shocking figure. But the fact remains this is a disease of the over 70s.

Again trailer - we have been over this many many times - it is not a disease of the over 70's.

Yes it is.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/15/covid-19-coronavirus-breakdown-of-deaths-and-infections-worldwide (https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/15/covid-19-coronavirus-breakdown-of-deaths-and-infections-worldwide)

Go down and look at the graph titled Which age groups is Italy's COVID-19 outbreak deadliest for?

It cannot be denied. The risk to healthy young people is minuscule.

Which would be great if the community was made up of under 70, healthy people.

What's you point? Risks increase with age in nearly all diseases. That's why older people take precautions. They get priority for flu vaccines. They get more regular checkups. They should be minding themselves.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on June 17, 2020, 10:30:17 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2020, 10:27:41 AM
Like worldwide the death toll is 450k.
All I am asking for is a tiny bit of perspective.

There would have been 450,000 dead in the UK alone without a lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on June 17, 2020, 10:32:11 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 17, 2020, 10:30:17 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2020, 10:27:41 AM
Like worldwide the death toll is 450k.
All I am asking for is a tiny bit of perspective.

There would have been 450,000 dead in the UK alone without a lockdown.
Might have only been 250k.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 17, 2020, 10:36:36 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2020, 10:10:50 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 17, 2020, 07:53:11 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 10:12:43 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 07:45:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 04:29:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

Did your survey include those families that lost loved ones?

I don't know anyone who lost a loved one and I don't have any friends or employees who lost a love one or even knew anyone who died from it.

I would need to doublecheck but I think 65,000 people or so have died....

And that is a shocking figure. But the fact remains this is a disease of the over 70s.

Again trailer - we have been over this many many times - it is not a disease of the over 70's.

Yes it is.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/15/covid-19-coronavirus-breakdown-of-deaths-and-infections-worldwide (https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/15/covid-19-coronavirus-breakdown-of-deaths-and-infections-worldwide)

Go down and look at the graph titled Which age groups is Italy's COVID-19 outbreak deadliest for?

It cannot be denied. The risk to healthy young people is minuscule.

No it isnt - regardless of how miniscule the risk is there is a risk to young healthy people nevermind middle aged people.

It is clearly incorrect to say this is a disease of the over 70's.

Do you think if it was a disease for the over 70's only Bojo et al would have had lockdown - not a chance
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on June 17, 2020, 10:39:59 AM
If they're telling us that only 5% of the UK population contracted the disease and that led to 60K excess deaths, then it's fair to say that if the whole population contracted the disease then there could have been 1.2M excess deaths, or is my maths out?

UK has a pretty old population as well, so the entire over 70's age group which are most affected (not exclusively though) would have been wiped out.

Great news for pension funds and undertakers.......





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2020, 10:51:29 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2020, 10:29:48 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2020, 10:27:26 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2020, 10:10:50 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 17, 2020, 07:53:11 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 10:12:43 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 07:45:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 04:29:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

Did your survey include those families that lost loved ones?

I don't know anyone who lost a loved one and I don't have any friends or employees who lost a love one or even knew anyone who died from it.

I would need to doublecheck but I think 65,000 people or so have died....

And that is a shocking figure. But the fact remains this is a disease of the over 70s.

Again trailer - we have been over this many many times - it is not a disease of the over 70's.

Yes it is.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/15/covid-19-coronavirus-breakdown-of-deaths-and-infections-worldwide (https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/15/covid-19-coronavirus-breakdown-of-deaths-and-infections-worldwide)

Go down and look at the graph titled Which age groups is Italy's COVID-19 outbreak deadliest for?

It cannot be denied. The risk to healthy young people is minuscule.

Which would be great if the community was made up of under 70, healthy people.

What's you point? Risks increase with age in nearly all diseases. That's why older people take precautions. They get priority for flu vaccines. They get more regular checkups. They should be minding themselves.

But there's never been as potent a virus that spreads as quickly. There's a pop of over 200,000 of over 70's in NI. We're not chatting small numbers here. Plus we don't have a vaccine like we have for the flu.
Most people are prepared to take precautions and make sacrifices to prevent the risk to the over 70's (and the vulnerable). We need to work towards opening the economy up again. But not at the risk of the over 70s.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 17, 2020, 12:50:00 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2020, 10:51:29 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2020, 10:29:48 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2020, 10:27:26 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2020, 10:10:50 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 17, 2020, 07:53:11 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 10:12:43 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 07:45:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 04:29:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

Did your survey include those families that lost loved ones?

I don't know anyone who lost a loved one and I don't have any friends or employees who lost a love one or even knew anyone who died from it.

I would need to doublecheck but I think 65,000 people or so have died....

And that is a shocking figure. But the fact remains this is a disease of the over 70s.

Again trailer - we have been over this many many times - it is not a disease of the over 70's.

Yes it is.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/15/covid-19-coronavirus-breakdown-of-deaths-and-infections-worldwide (https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/15/covid-19-coronavirus-breakdown-of-deaths-and-infections-worldwide)

Go down and look at the graph titled Which age groups is Italy's COVID-19 outbreak deadliest for?

It cannot be denied. The risk to healthy young people is minuscule.

Which would be great if the community was made up of under 70, healthy people.

What's you point? Risks increase with age in nearly all diseases. That's why older people take precautions. They get priority for flu vaccines. They get more regular checkups. They should be minding themselves.

But there's never been as potent a virus that spreads as quickly. There's a pop of over 200,000 of over 70's in NI. We're not chatting small numbers here. Plus we don't have a vaccine like we have for the flu.
Most people are prepared to take precautions and make sacrifices to prevent the risk to the over 70's (and the vulnerable). We need to work towards opening the economy up again. But not at the risk of the over 70s.

Has there not? This idea that the virus spreads more quickly than anything we've ever seen before is complete nonsense. Look up R rates there. HIV, Measles, SARS, Zika.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2020, 01:23:29 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2020, 12:50:00 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2020, 10:51:29 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2020, 10:29:48 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2020, 10:27:26 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2020, 10:10:50 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 17, 2020, 07:53:11 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 10:12:43 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 07:45:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 04:29:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

Did your survey include those families that lost loved ones?

I don't know anyone who lost a loved one and I don't have any friends or employees who lost a love one or even knew anyone who died from it.

I would need to doublecheck but I think 65,000 people or so have died....

And that is a shocking figure. But the fact remains this is a disease of the over 70s.

Again trailer - we have been over this many many times - it is not a disease of the over 70's.

Yes it is.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/15/covid-19-coronavirus-breakdown-of-deaths-and-infections-worldwide (https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/15/covid-19-coronavirus-breakdown-of-deaths-and-infections-worldwide)

Go down and look at the graph titled Which age groups is Italy's COVID-19 outbreak deadliest for?

It cannot be denied. The risk to healthy young people is minuscule.

Which would be great if the community was made up of under 70, healthy people.

What's you point? Risks increase with age in nearly all diseases. That's why older people take precautions. They get priority for flu vaccines. They get more regular checkups. They should be minding themselves.

But there's never been as potent a virus that spreads as quickly. There's a pop of over 200,000 of over 70's in NI. We're not chatting small numbers here. Plus we don't have a vaccine like we have for the flu.
Most people are prepared to take precautions and make sacrifices to prevent the risk to the over 70's (and the vulnerable). We need to work towards opening the economy up again. But not at the risk of the over 70s.

Has there not? This idea that the virus spreads more quickly than anything we've ever seen before is complete nonsense. Look up R rates there. HIV, Measles, SARS, Zika.
Fair point, I didn't express that right. It's a combination of the fact that Covid19 spreads easily from person to person same as the flu therefore harder to contain. Zika transfers mostly through mosquitoes not contact, HIV through bodily fluids. It's got a higher R value than some of the airborne viruses like Mers. There's no vaccination unlike measles.  There's reasons why the death rate is so high for a new virus. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 01:50:00 PM
Trueblue trying to twist my words
Only 5% of the uk has had it which I said. Now I'm saying if the older ones had of been isolated we could get that up to 50% with the fit and healthy and we would be in a much better place. Now as the weeks have went on and the hospitals have more time to get the PPE and Ventilators in along with more bed they fatality rate would drop enormously. They would know exactly how to treat it.
So after all the lock down a low percentage has it which in itself is not good
Stop trying to twist what I say
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 17, 2020, 01:56:47 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 01:50:00 PM
Trueblue trying to twist my words
Only 5% of the uk has had it which I said. Now I'm saying if the older ones had of been isolated we could get that up to 50% with the fit and healthy and we would be in a much better place. Now as the weeks have went on and the hospitals have more time to get the PPE and Ventilators in along with more bed they fatality rate would drop enormously. They would know exactly how to treat it.
So after all the lock down a low percentage has it which in itself is not good
Stop trying to twist what I say

If' and hindsight's .. can I have the numbers for the Lottery tonight please?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2020, 02:07:01 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 01:50:00 PM
Trueblue trying to twist my words
Only 5% of the uk has had it which I said. Now I'm saying if the older ones had of been isolated we could get that up to 50% with the fit and healthy and we would be in a much better place. Now as the weeks have went on and the hospitals have more time to get the PPE and Ventilators in along with more bed they fatality rate would drop enormously. They would know exactly how to treat it.
So after all the lock down a low percentage has it which in itself is not good
Stop trying to twist what I say

I'll be honest I'm not actually sure what your saying. Are you saying now we should just give it free reign and try and get the infected rate up to 50%?

* I agree on hospitals being in a better place now than March/ April.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 17, 2020, 02:49:46 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2020, 12:50:00 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2020, 10:51:29 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2020, 10:29:48 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2020, 10:27:26 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2020, 10:10:50 AM
Quote from: Taylor on June 17, 2020, 07:53:11 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 10:12:43 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 07:45:22 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 05:16:45 PM
Quote from: STREET FIGHTER on June 16, 2020, 04:29:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2020, 12:41:07 PM
When we look back I think we'll all agree this has been the biggest overreaction to anything ever. It is the greatest load of shite. Completely overblown. This is the opinion of all right thinking people.

Did your survey include those families that lost loved ones?

I don't know anyone who lost a loved one and I don't have any friends or employees who lost a love one or even knew anyone who died from it.

I would need to doublecheck but I think 65,000 people or so have died....

And that is a shocking figure. But the fact remains this is a disease of the over 70s.

Again trailer - we have been over this many many times - it is not a disease of the over 70's.

Yes it is.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/15/covid-19-coronavirus-breakdown-of-deaths-and-infections-worldwide (https://www.euronews.com/2020/06/15/covid-19-coronavirus-breakdown-of-deaths-and-infections-worldwide)

Go down and look at the graph titled Which age groups is Italy's COVID-19 outbreak deadliest for?

It cannot be denied. The risk to healthy young people is minuscule.

Which would be great if the community was made up of under 70, healthy people.

What's you point? Risks increase with age in nearly all diseases. That's why older people take precautions. They get priority for flu vaccines. They get more regular checkups. They should be minding themselves.

But there's never been as potent a virus that spreads as quickly. There's a pop of over 200,000 of over 70's in NI. We're not chatting small numbers here. Plus we don't have a vaccine like we have for the flu.
Most people are prepared to take precautions and make sacrifices to prevent the risk to the over 70's (and the vulnerable). We need to work towards opening the economy up again. But not at the risk of the over 70s.

Has there not? This idea that the virus spreads more quickly than anything we've ever seen before is complete nonsense. Look up R rates there. HIV, Measles, SARS, Zika.

Zika is spread by mosquitoes. HIV via sexual contact and blood. Not quite the same spread and exposure risk as SARS or measles or COVID-19. Fortunately, we have a vaccine for measles, while SARS was contained fairly quickly and ended up infecting only 8000 people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 02:55:21 PM
Free reign? Let the thing takes its course for 6 months on the young and healthy
If that had of happened we would be in a much better place come Christmas
No need to lock all down
I can't make myself much clearer

1- Everyone above 60 should have been told to isolate along with the vulnerable
2- All carehomes should have been closed to the public for 4 months ring fence  them
3- Get hospitals installed with more ventilators and PPE
4- Close all airports for 2 months until we had a grip on things
5- Any kids living with vulnerable keep them off school
6- All bars pubs clubs only allowed 50% capacities
7- Enforce a 1 metre distance rule

But no we
1-Closed schools
2- Stopped all hospital treatments bar Covid
3- Shut down the whole economy


Are we better off now than we were 3 months ago?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 17, 2020, 03:18:02 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 02:55:21 PM
Free reign? Let the thing takes its course for 6 months on the young and healthy
If that had of happened we would be in a much better place come Christmas
No need to lock all down
I can't make myself much clearer

1- Everyone above 60 should have been told to isolate along with the vulnerable
2- All carehomes should have been closed to the public for 4 months ring fence  them
3- Get hospitals installed with more ventilators and PPE
4- Close all airports for 2 months until we had a grip on things
5- Any kids living with vulnerable keep them off school
6- All bars pubs clubs only allowed 50% capacities
7- Enforce a 1 metre distance rule

But no we
1-Closed schools
2- Stopped all hospital treatments bar Covid
3- Shut down the whole economy


Are we better off now than we were 3 months ago?

Alive and didn't infect anyone by staying in.

At the start of this the smart ones were asking to close off the island, it didn't happen.

You'd have been happy that all sporting events, concerts and so on to go ahead, they would have been fine had we just stopped the over 60's and vulnerable.

All the stuff you have said is complete hindsight, wonderful as they say.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2020, 03:30:46 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 02:55:21 PM
Free reign? Let the thing takes its course for 6 months on the young and healthy
If that had of happened we would be in a much better place come Christmas
No need to lock all down
I can't make myself much clearer

1- Everyone above 60 should have been told to isolate along with the vulnerable
2- All carehomes should have been closed to the public for 4 months ring fence  them
3- Get hospitals installed with more ventilators and PPE
4- Close all airports for 2 months until we had a grip on things
5- Any kids living with vulnerable keep them off school
6- All bars pubs clubs only allowed 50% capacities
7- Enforce a 1 metre distance rule

But no we
1-Closed schools
2- Stopped all hospital treatments bar Covid
3- Shut down the whole economy


Are we better off now than we were 3 months ago?

Herd immunity then. Madness. Take a look at Sweden who didn't do a full lockdown. (And they still closed schools, stopped large gatherings,  tried to protect over 70's). The UK thought about Herd immunity and gave it up as the death toll sky rocketed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on June 17, 2020, 03:32:39 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 02:55:21 PM
Free reign? Let the thing takes its course for 6 months on the young and healthy
If that had of happened we would be in a much better place come Christmas
No need to lock all down
I can't make myself much clearer

1- Everyone above 60 should have been told to isolate along with the vulnerable
2- All carehomes should have been closed to the public for 4 months ring fence  them
3- Get hospitals installed with more ventilators and PPE
4- Close all airports for 2 months until we had a grip on things
5- Any kids living with vulnerable keep them off school
6- All bars pubs clubs only allowed 50% capacities
7- Enforce a 1 metre distance rule

But no we
1-Closed schools
2- Stopped all hospital treatments bar Covid
3- Shut down the whole economy


Are we better off now than we were 3 months ago?

People by the very nature being in hospital have lower immune systems, so to bring them into a closed building and patients who have a highly contagious disease like Covid-19 would only make things worse.

Also where exactly was all the medical equipment & PPE to come from? By the time it reached Ireland mainland Europe and China were at peak Covid cases so there was very little equipment/PPE to buy such was the world wide demand for it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 17, 2020, 03:48:13 PM
Look it....can't ye all just stop nitpicking when a genius speaks.
If only all those Governments ( other than tr**p and Bozo) had listened to Smurf back in March ........
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 04:00:12 PM
Where did I say heard immunity?
All mass gatherings to run at 40% capacity where a 1 metre distance can be kept
Sure what's the difference in doing all this now and back 2 months ago?
Same thing lads
Only difference is the economy is gone
The single most important thing in all this believe it or not is keeping your distance
Whether you admit that or not
It's simple but very affective
Like the marches in Belfast 12 days ago and no comeback from it
Passing this virus more than likely needs very very close contact with one another.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2020, 04:19:58 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 04:00:12 PM
Where did I say heard immunity?
All mass gatherings to run at 40% capacity where a 1 metre distance can be kept
Sure what's the difference in doing all this now and back 2 months ago?
Same thing lads
Only difference is the economy is gone
The single most important thing in all this believe it or not is keeping your distance
Whether you admit that or not
It's simple but very affective
Like the marches in Belfast 12 days ago and no comeback from it
Passing this virus more than likely needs very very close contact with one another.

Wanting 50% + of the population to get the virus is Herd Immunity. If 50% people had got it in March/April you could be looking at a death toll in NI of between 10-20K. Lock down ensured people kept their distance.

If we had shut the airports early then yes we could have looked at a less severe lockdown and focused on contact tracing. That ship sailed. But now we are in a position that the numbers are small enough that we should be able to contact trace and slowly re-open.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 05:17:43 PM
Exactly
The word could
Sure we have been told about a big spike after Easter VHE Beaches and no sign
4% icu beds being now used in Italy and they have reopened 6 weeks
Keep scaremongering
You still haven't answered regarding America .
Lots of talk about more cases and this massive rise but hospital administrations are dropping dramatically weeks on week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2020, 05:21:45 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 05:17:43 PM
Exactly
The word could
Sure we have been told about a big spike after Easter VHE Beaches and no sign
4% icu beds being now used in Italy and they have reopened 6 weeks
Keep scaremongering
You still haven't answered regarding America .
Lots of talk about more cases and this massive rise but hospital administrations are dropping dramatically weeks on week.

Right, I'm not going any further down this rabbit hole.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on June 17, 2020, 06:25:56 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2020, 05:21:45 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 05:17:43 PM
Exactly
The word could
Sure we have been told about a big spike after Easter VHE Beaches and no sign
4% icu beds being now used in Italy and they have reopened 6 weeks
Keep scaremongering
You still haven't answered regarding America .
Lots of talk about more cases and this massive rise but hospital administrations are dropping dramatically weeks on week.

Right, I'm not going any further down this rabbit hole.
There's no point, you can talk to smurfy until he's blue in the face....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 17, 2020, 06:37:17 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 05:17:43 PM
Exactly
The word could
Sure we have been told about a big spike after Easter VHE Beaches and no sign
4% icu beds being now used in Italy and they have reopened 6 weeks
Keep scaremongering
You still haven't answered regarding America .
Lots of talk about more cases and this massive rise but hospital administrations are dropping dramatically weeks on week.

In some places. NY has been on a dramatic, steady decrease for weeks. Others are going up. Florida, Texas, Arizona and others.

They're revising the eventual predicted US death toll up every couple of weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 17, 2020, 06:37:43 PM
March

https://www.ft.com/content/396def8e-5d82-11ea-8033-fa40a0d65a98


When the National Bureau of Statistics released a record low figure for its official purchasing managers' index on February 29, it added — in an unusually political aside — that "under the party's firm leadership with Xi Jinping at the core, the virus is coming under control . . . and market confidence is steadily recovering".


June

https://www.ft.com/content/97708919-1264-446c-aa13-8d83ff0572c5

China tightens restrictions as Beijing outbreak widens Flights cancelled and schools closed as authorities try to prevent a second coronavirus wave Residents of Beijing queue to get nucleic acid tests, which can be used to detect traces of coronavirus, after a rise in cases in the Chinese capital

Experts have noted that a Covid-19 disaster in the capital would be embarrassing to the Communist party, which has claimed success in controlling the outbreak compared with the US, UK and many European states.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: STREET FIGHTER on June 17, 2020, 06:39:43 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 09:10:03 AM
Using the virus in isolation you could throw out numbers left right and centre
Smoking accounts for 2000 deaths a week in the uk
Cancer 3000 a week
Every death is terrible but men firing  out numbers doesn't add up
A really bad flu year had been no different than this year
2008
2010

What part of 65,000+ dead are you failing to understand- specific to CV19....not smoking.....not cancer....not flu?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on June 17, 2020, 10:52:59 PM
Just looking at the daily reports and Germany seems to have had a spike in today's new cases. Went up from 338 to 1797, anyone heard anything.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on June 17, 2020, 11:04:55 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on June 17, 2020, 10:52:59 PM
Just looking at the daily reports and Germany seems to have had a spike in today's new cases. Went up from 338 to 1797, anyone heard anything.
https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-over-600-people-test-positive-at-german-slaughterhouse/a-53846038
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on June 18, 2020, 12:48:05 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 17, 2020, 06:25:56 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2020, 05:21:45 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 17, 2020, 05:17:43 PM
Exactly
The word could
Sure we have been told about a big spike after Easter VHE Beaches and no sign
4% icu beds being now used in Italy and they have reopened 6 weeks
Keep scaremongering
You still haven't answered regarding America .
Lots of talk about more cases and this massive rise but hospital administrations are dropping dramatically weeks on week.

Right, I'm not going any further down this rabbit hole.
There's no point, you can talk to smurfy until he's blue in the face....

;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 18, 2020, 06:40:04 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/pub-time-slots-of-105-minutes-to-be-allowed-under-final-reopening-guidelines-1.4281841?mode=amp

Pubs intending to open from the end of the month can provide a time slot of an hour and three quarters for customers under final guidelines for the industry.

Businesses will also be allowed to implement a one-metre physical distancing guideline

The guidance says that where at all practical workers in pubs should provide services to only one gathering and should not move between different function rooms.

It says toilets should not be used simultaneously by multiple gatherings

Customers will also have to be seated at a table except when using the toilet, paying and departing.

Pubs will be required to serve a "substantial meal" for which it would be reasonable to charge not less than €9. 

Following pressure from industry representatives, the seating time in pubs has changed from 90 minutes to 105 minutes with an additional 15 minutes between bookings, which is two hours in total.

"The 15 minutes has been added to allow for adequate cleaning and to ensure customers leave and enter without mixing," the guidelines state.

Previously Dr Tony Holohan, the State's chief medical officer, had said pubs operating as restaurants would not mean several people meeting up "for a few pints and having a packet of peanuts".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 18, 2020, 07:10:03 AM

   https://www.ft.com/content/78b1def0-90c1-323a-8d30-a2f4bc64cc20

   Qantas has suspended almost all international flights until late October following indications from the Australian government that it will probably not reopen its borders to most travellers until 2021 due to Covid-19.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 18, 2020, 09:59:48 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 18, 2020, 06:40:04 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/pub-time-slots-of-105-minutes-to-be-allowed-under-final-reopening-guidelines-1.4281841?mode=amp

Pubs intending to open from the end of the month can provide a time slot of an hour and three quarters for customers under final guidelines for the industry.

Businesses will also be allowed to implement a one-metre physical distancing guideline

The guidance says that where at all practical workers in pubs should provide services to only one gathering and should not move between different function rooms.

It says toilets should not be used simultaneously by multiple gatherings

Customers will also have to be seated at a table except when using the toilet, paying and departing.

Pubs will be required to serve a "substantial meal" for which it would be reasonable to charge not less than €9.

Following pressure from industry representatives, the seating time in pubs has changed from 90 minutes to 105 minutes with an additional 15 minutes between bookings, which is two hours in total.

"The 15 minutes has been added to allow for adequate cleaning and to ensure customers leave and enter without mixing," the guidelines state.

Previously Dr Tony Holohan, the State's chief medical officer, had said pubs operating as restaurants would not mean several people meeting up "for a few pints and having a packet of peanuts".

Have you ever read such absolute nonsense in your life?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 18, 2020, 10:13:50 AM
Big call from Australia but they are only delaying the problem. As soon as they do reopen the virus will come back unless it's gone which it won't be. Needed a joined up approach
Track trace isolate our only way to deal with this until a vaccine is found
Madness from the Irish Government
They were always going to move it to 1 metre the the hospitality sector
Madness they would not budge it for the schools to return
Book 3 tables back to back them u are there for 5 hours spending £27 on food. People will do that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 18, 2020, 11:04:34 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 18, 2020, 10:13:50 AM
Book 3 tables back to back them u are there for 5 hours spending £27 on food. People will do that

That is not how it works. No doubt some places will abuse the system but in the present environment any chancers will be called out on this, any pub allowing people stay on will be up on twitter from day 1.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on June 18, 2020, 11:47:43 AM
Here is what I don't get. Why is competitive contact sports up and down the country scheduled to return next month, with groups of fellas and girls playing against another random group living in a different place, whilst it will be a phased return for kids going back to school in September? I just don't get that? Im not saying football shouldn't or should be back on, but if it is you would think schools back to something resembling normality would happen also? Instead parents are getting ridiculous letters out with one kid in a couple of days and another kid in on other days. It just doesn't make sense to me. I would have thought, especially in primary school, that the same teacher, teaching the same kids all week, would be less risky in relation to potential spread of the virus than a group of adults playing football against a different group week in week out? Is the difference in tact coming from government/scientific advice or is it pressure from teaching unions?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 18, 2020, 11:49:37 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 18, 2020, 11:47:43 AM
Here is what I don't get. Why is competitive contact sports up and down the country scheduled to return next month, with groups of fellas and girls playing against another random group living in a different place, whilst it will be a phased return for kids going back to school in September? I just don't get that? Im not saying football shouldn't or should be back on, but if it is you would think schools back to something resembling normality would happen also? Instead parents are getting ridiculous letters out with one kid in a couple of days and another kid in on other days. It just doesn't make sense to me. I would have thought, especially in primary school, that the same teacher, teaching the same kids all week, would be less risky in relation to potential spread of the virus than a group of adults playing football against a different group week in week out? Is the difference in tact coming from government/scientific advice or is it pressure from teaching unions?

Sports outside, less risk of transmission, less prolonged close contact.

Schools inside, higher risk of transmission, longer close contact.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on June 18, 2020, 12:02:33 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 18, 2020, 11:49:37 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 18, 2020, 11:47:43 AM
Here is what I don't get. Why is competitive contact sports up and down the country scheduled to return next month, with groups of fellas and girls playing against another random group living in a different place, whilst it will be a phased return for kids going back to school in September? I just don't get that? Im not saying football shouldn't or should be back on, but if it is you would think schools back to something resembling normality would happen also? Instead parents are getting ridiculous letters out with one kid in a couple of days and another kid in on other days. It just doesn't make sense to me. I would have thought, especially in primary school, that the same teacher, teaching the same kids all week, would be less risky in relation to potential spread of the virus than a group of adults playing football against a different group week in week out? Is the difference in tact coming from government/scientific advice or is it pressure from teaching unions?

Sports outside, less risk of transmission, less prolonged close contact.

Schools inside, higher risk of transmission, longer close contact.
Yes, but surely the sports will have a much closer contact albeit for much shorter period of time? Im sure its been mentioned on here, but 1m closed contact for 1 min carries the equivalent corona virus risk as 15 mins at 2m? So you would need to work out the risk of repeated 5 sec tackling at 2 inches face to face compared to kids being relatively spaced out in the classroom and playing outdoors. I honestly think the sports carry a much a greater risk, but again Im not saying that risk is high enough for it not to go ahead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 18, 2020, 01:29:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 18, 2020, 11:49:37 AM
Sports outside, less risk of transmission, less prolonged close contact.

Schools inside, higher risk of transmission, longer close contact.


Dunno. Don't think the contact sport thing is completely thought through.

Heavy breathing in close proximity & exchange of sweat* will provide copious opportunity for shed virus to jump from one person to another.

*arms & hands brush all the time in tackles or challenges for the ball. Then its just a matter of running the back of yer arm across your nose. Something frequently done when there is loads of pollen about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 18, 2020, 01:49:33 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 18, 2020, 01:29:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 18, 2020, 11:49:37 AM
Sports outside, less risk of transmission, less prolonged close contact.

Schools inside, higher risk of transmission, longer close contact.


Dunno. Don't think the contact sport thing is completely thought through.

Heavy breathing in close proximity & exchange of sweat* will provide copious opportunity for shed virus to jump from one person to another.

*arms & hands brush all the time in tackles or challenges for the ball. Then its just a matter of running the back of yer arm across your nose. Something frequently done when there is loads of pollen about.

Absolutely, not saying I disagree with yourself or HiMucker....but that is the train of thought with regards to sport v school above.

Seems they are quite happy outside is (nearly) risk free with regards to Covid now, which is nearly the complete opposite to when the whole thing kicked off.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: God14 on June 18, 2020, 01:49:48 PM
Confirmed cases/P1 tests, *last 72h*:

Antrim/Newtownabbey 0/115
Ards/North Down 7/201
Armagh B&C 1/266
Belfast 2/601
Causeway C&G 0/171
Derry/Strabane 0/187
Fermanagh/Omagh 0/178
Lisburn/Castlereagh 3/215
Mid/East Antrim 0/122
Mid Ulster 0/178
Newry M&D 0/142
Non-assigned 1/105

Info stole from twitter (Ian Parsley) but it seems the case figures in the North are centred around Ards and North Down Council areas.
Very frustrating we don't have more information on these cases, are there clusters or patterns that the rest of us could learn from?
Also if we were to eradicate the problem in Ards and North Down we would be in a great position
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 18, 2020, 01:51:54 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 18, 2020, 01:29:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 18, 2020, 11:49:37 AM
Sports outside, less risk of transmission, less prolonged close contact.

Schools inside, higher risk of transmission, longer close contact.


Dunno. Don't think the contact sport thing is completely thought through.

Heavy breathing in close proximity & exchange of sweat* will provide copious opportunity for shed virus to jump from one person to another.

*arms & hands brush all the time in tackles or challenges for the ball. Then its just a matter of running the back of yer arm across your nose. Something frequently done when there is loads of pollen about.

At least in pro-soccer, they're testing those lads a couple of times per week.

Amateur level sports may be a different issue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 18, 2020, 02:05:15 PM
Quote from: God14 on June 18, 2020, 01:49:48 PM
Confirmed cases/P1 tests, *last 72h*:

Antrim/Newtownabbey 0/115
Ards/North Down 7/201
Armagh B&C 1/266
Belfast 2/601
Causeway C&G 0/171
Derry/Strabane 0/187
Fermanagh/Omagh 0/178
Lisburn/Castlereagh 3/215
Mid/East Antrim 0/122
Mid Ulster 0/178
Newry M&D 0/142
Non-assigned 1/105

Info stole from twitter (Ian Parsley) but it seems the case figures in the North are centred around Ards and North Down Council areas.
Very frustrating we don't have more information on these cases, are there clusters or patterns that the rest of us could learn from?
Also if we were to eradicate the problem in Ards and North Down we would be in a great position

The current testing "setup" is a load of shite.

Relative of the missus had symptoms. Eventually got tested in a centre a week ago after haggling to avoid a home kit that would no doubt have been used incorrectly*. No word back after several days. Numerous calls later, turns out they don't know where the test is and the relative isn't on the system. Even if it had worked, your still waiting a couple of days for results. That is far too slow.


*I wonder how many are getting sent home kits then doing incorrect tests that yield incorrect results. As usual, public services taking the f**king easy way out even if it means no clear picture of reality. From what I've been told of how the tests are performed - a home test kit is essentially worse than useless (assuming you've got it in the absence of a result is better than going about your business on the back of a false negative) as the samples will not have been taken from where they need to be.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: God14 on June 18, 2020, 02:17:03 PM
Updated figures

P1 tests (positive/total) 5-18 June:

Antrim/Newtownabbey 2/656
Ards/North Down 36/1116
Armagh B&C 4/1092
Belfast 13/2213
Causeway C&G 1/723
Derry/Strabane 0/941
Fermanagh/Omagh 0/730
Lisburn/Castlereagh 13/939
Mid/East Antrim 5/648
Mid Ulster 4/680
Newry M&D 3/1491
Unknown 6/506
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 18, 2020, 02:18:45 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 18, 2020, 02:05:15 PM
Quote from: God14 on June 18, 2020, 01:49:48 PM
Confirmed cases/P1 tests, *last 72h*:

Antrim/Newtownabbey 0/115
Ards/North Down 7/201
Armagh B&C 1/266
Belfast 2/601
Causeway C&G 0/171
Derry/Strabane 0/187
Fermanagh/Omagh 0/178
Lisburn/Castlereagh 3/215
Mid/East Antrim 0/122
Mid Ulster 0/178
Newry M&D 0/142
Non-assigned 1/105

Info stole from twitter (Ian Parsley) but it seems the case figures in the North are centred around Ards and North Down Council areas.
Very frustrating we don't have more information on these cases, are there clusters or patterns that the rest of us could learn from?
Also if we were to eradicate the problem in Ards and North Down we would be in a great position

The current testing "setup" is a load of shite.

Relative of the missus had symptoms. Eventually got tested in a centre a week ago after haggling to avoid a home kit that would no doubt have been used incorrectly*. No word back after several days. Numerous calls later, turns out they don't know where the test is and the relative isn't on the system. Even if it had worked, your still waiting a couple of days for results. That is far too slow.


*I wonder how many are getting sent home kits then doing incorrect tests that yield incorrect results. As usual, public services taking the f**king easy way out even if it means no clear picture of reality. From what I've been told of how the tests are performed - a home test kit is essentially worse than useless (assuming you've got it in the absence of a result is better than going about your business on the back of a false negative) as the samples will not have been taken from where they need to be.

Absolutely, they've never had any true intent in going down this path.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: God14 on June 18, 2020, 02:18:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 18, 2020, 02:05:15 PM
Quote from: God14 on June 18, 2020, 01:49:48 PM
Confirmed cases/P1 tests, *last 72h*:

Antrim/Newtownabbey 0/115
Ards/North Down 7/201
Armagh B&C 1/266
Belfast 2/601
Causeway C&G 0/171
Derry/Strabane 0/187
Fermanagh/Omagh 0/178
Lisburn/Castlereagh 3/215
Mid/East Antrim 0/122
Mid Ulster 0/178
Newry M&D 0/142
Non-assigned 1/105

Info stole from twitter (Ian Parsley) but it seems the case figures in the North are centred around Ards and North Down Council areas.
Very frustrating we don't have more information on these cases, are there clusters or patterns that the rest of us could learn from?
Also if we were to eradicate the problem in Ards and North Down we would be in a great position

The current testing "setup" is a load of shite.

Relative of the missus had symptoms. Eventually got tested in a centre a week ago after haggling to avoid a home kit that would no doubt have been used incorrectly*. No word back after several days. Numerous calls later, turns out they don't know where the test is and the relative isn't on the system. Even if it had worked, your still waiting a couple of days for results. That is far too slow.


*I wonder how many are getting sent home kits then doing incorrect tests that yield incorrect results. As usual, public services taking the f**king easy way out even if it means no clear picture of reality. From what I've been told of how the tests are performed - a home test kit is essentially worse than useless (assuming you've got it in the absence of a result is better than going about your business on the back of a false negative) as the samples will not have been taken from where they need to be.

I wasn't aware of the home testing going on. Anyone I know who has got tested (mid ulster area) travelled to Antrim hospital for a drive thru test.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: God14 on June 18, 2020, 02:35:36 PM
Almost 45% of positive tests in June, in the North, occurred in an area which is occupied by 8% of the population

Something surely up here?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on June 18, 2020, 02:48:47 PM
Quote from: God14 on June 18, 2020, 02:35:36 PM
Almost 45% of positive tests in June, in the North, occurred in an area which is occupied by 8% of the population

Something surely up here?

Alliance twitterati are imply loads, but no concrete talk of what or where the outbreak is!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 18, 2020, 02:57:11 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 18, 2020, 02:48:47 PM
Quote from: God14 on June 18, 2020, 02:35:36 PM
Almost 45% of positive tests in June, in the North, occurred in an area which is occupied by 8% of the population

Something surely up here?

Alliance twitterati are imply loads, but no concrete talk of what or where the outbreak is!

Did Rob Swann not say that it had occured more in afleunt areas which was a complete contradiction of a recent report of cases??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on June 18, 2020, 02:57:27 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 18, 2020, 12:05:29 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 18, 2020, 11:47:43 AM
Here is what I don't get. Why is competitive contact sports up and down the country scheduled to return next month, with groups of fellas and girls playing against another random group living in a different place, whilst it will be a phased return for kids going back to school in September? I just don't get that? Im not saying football shouldn't or should be back on, but if it is you would think schools back to something resembling normality would happen also? Instead parents are getting ridiculous letters out with one kid in a couple of days and another kid in on other days. It just doesn't make sense to me. I would have thought, especially in primary school, that the same teacher, teaching the same kids all week, would be less risky in relation to potential spread of the virus than a group of adults playing football against a different group week in week out? Is the difference in tact coming from government/scientific advice or is it pressure from teaching unions?
You are making out as though schools are the only part of society that are taking social distancing measures. They aren't. It's happening left, right and centre. Shops, pubs, restaurants will all have restrictions. Workplaces, offices etc the same. Indeed, contact sport is the outlier here.
I'm really not, I'm merely looking for the rationale to explain the bit in bold. The rest of the examples you give are business's that deal with the public and have no control over who those members of the public are. Schools are a much more controlled environment. I don't want this to descend in to the sort of teacher slating crap you see on here. I supported teachers and school closures and thought it was an unnecessary risk/reward to have them reopen again before the summer break. However I cant help but detect a certain level of resistance now in terms of starting back to school in September, more along the lines of the pace wider society is moving at. I know plenty of teachers who share these concerns also who have confirmed a certain irrational resistance among their colleagues compared to other sectors of employment. Changing of the school hours would be one of the biggest, if not the biggest upheavals in society regarding employment, not including job losses obviously, caused by this pandemic. I think its only reasonable that people will question this, especially if the changes look out of sync with what is happening in other sectors.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on June 18, 2020, 03:52:05 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 18, 2020, 03:19:44 PM
I think the point is that schools, like other workplaces will open with social distancing regulations in place. There is absolutely no objection to this from anyone in teaching as far as I can see. It may be pointed out that this would mean that they can only accommodate 50% of the pupils at any given time in the same way that bars & shops can only accommodate 50% of the customers they previously did.

I don't understand how this will mean that teachers won't be going back or that teachers will somehow be getting it handier. Far from it.

I don't see what sport returning has to do with school capacity limits any more than it has to do with limits on hospital visits, limits on cafe capacities, restrictions within offices, restrictions in places of worship.

There are limits & restrictions throughout society but seemingly the teaching unions are at fault for them being in schools. I don't understand that logic.

Why are sports different? I don't know. Armaghniac mentioned on another thread that perhaps it is because they are recreational and not workplaces so there isn't the same requirement for employers to ensure safety of their employees. Maybe that's the thinking but to single schools out for being out of sync with society for trying to comply with the government's social distancing guidelines is quite simply wrong.

Obvious answer here is that it has been scientifically proven that Covid 19 spreads much more easily in enclosed spaces ie inside.  The sports that have opened up are played outdoors. School is indoors with a big number in a relatively small space.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 18, 2020, 03:58:16 PM
Quote from: lenny on June 18, 2020, 03:52:05 PM
Obvious answer here is that it has been scientifically proven that Covid 19 spreads much more easily in enclosed spaces ie inside.  The sports that have opened up are played outdoors. School is indoors with a big number in a relatively small space.

If that is the depth of their thinking then they are very stupid.

The differences between 30 people walking around in a park and 30 people on a football pitch competing for possession of the same football are profound and pertinent.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 18, 2020, 05:16:04 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 18, 2020, 03:19:44 PM
I think the point is that schools, like other workplaces will open with social distancing regulations in place. There is absolutely no objection to this from anyone in teaching as far as I can see. It may be pointed out that this would mean that they can only accommodate 50% of the pupils at any given time in the same way that bars & shops can only accommodate 50% of the customers they previously did.

I don't understand how this will mean that teachers won't be going back or that teachers will somehow be getting it handier. Far from it.

I don't see what sport returning has to do with school capacity limits any more than it has to do with limits on hospital visits, limits on cafe capacities, restrictions within offices, restrictions in places of worship.

There are limits & restrictions throughout society but seemingly the teaching unions are at fault for them being in schools. I don't understand that logic.

Why are sports different? I don't know. Armaghniac mentioned on another thread that perhaps it is because they are recreational and not workplaces so there isn't the same requirement for employers to ensure safety of their employees. Maybe that's the thinking but to single schools out for being out of sync with society for trying to comply with the government's social distancing guidelines is quite simply wrong.

Absolutely bang on with schools.How anyone can compare a school to a bar or restaurant as well I don't know.

I also don't quite know why sports are seen as different.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 18, 2020, 05:27:50 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 18, 2020, 04:01:56 PM
Or of course why games are allowed to commence before people are allowed to congregate indoors (even with social distancing in place).

It seems to be a logic they're running with, flawed or not.

Absolutely agree.

How they can decide on this date there is no contact yet the following day it is full contact is baffling.

I understand the PL is different with regular tests but some amateur club players wouldnt have a test....ever
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 18, 2020, 05:34:06 PM
Quote from: God14 on June 18, 2020, 02:35:36 PM
Almost 45% of positive tests in June, in the North, occurred in an area which is occupied by 8% of the population

Something surely up here?

Probably a care home. (And no, I'm not being smart)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on June 19, 2020, 09:44:48 AM
Anybody able to recommend a credible anti body test? Seems to be quite a few on the market and don't want to be shelling out for an unreliable one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on June 19, 2020, 10:17:41 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 19, 2020, 09:44:48 AM
Anybody able to recommend a credible anti body test? Seems to be quite a few on the market and don't want to be shelling out for an unreliable one.

What's that going to tell you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on June 19, 2020, 11:29:19 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 19, 2020, 10:17:41 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 19, 2020, 09:44:48 AM
Anybody able to recommend a credible anti body test? Seems to be quite a few on the market and don't want to be shelling out for an unreliable one.

What's that going to tell you?
If you had it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2020, 11:49:58 AM
Been in work all week preparing the place for officially opening on Monday

Having looked at our procedures for infection control I'm confident that we are covering everything (I hope)

Apron, gloves, mask, face-shield, desk shields, disinfection wipes/sprays and sanitisers and continual washing hands at our sinks, that side of things are covered.

We've also questions for all of our patients in relation to their current health, and staggered appointments to allow us to wipe down each room before and after they leave.

Appointments only, no waiting and no walk in hours like before!

There is I'm sure other stuff I've left out, but did a run through yesterday and today, the new normal is going to take time to adjust to, how pubs and cafes and the like will get to a standard of safety needed or required is beyond me!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on June 19, 2020, 11:53:29 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 19, 2020, 11:29:19 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 19, 2020, 10:17:41 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 19, 2020, 09:44:48 AM
Anybody able to recommend a credible anti body test? Seems to be quite a few on the market and don't want to be shelling out for an unreliable one.

What's that going to tell you?
If you had it
And then what?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 19, 2020, 11:56:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2020, 11:49:58 AM
Been in work all week preparing the place for officially opening on Monday

Having looked at our procedures for infection control I'm confident that we are covering everything (I hope)

Apron, gloves, mask, face-shield, desk shields, disinfection wipes/sprays and sanitisers and continual washing hands at our sinks, that side of things are covered.

We've also questions for all of our patients in relation to their current health, and staggered appointments to allow us to wipe down each room before and after they leave.

Appointments only, no waiting and no walk in hours like before!

There is I'm sure other stuff I've left out, but did a run through yesterday and today, the new normal is going to take time to adjust to, how pubs and cafes and the like will get to a standard of safety needed or required is beyond me!

I can see cafe handling it ok - changes surely but they will be fine.

Pubs on the other hand will be a mess after a few men/women get liquor down their throat
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on June 19, 2020, 12:00:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2020, 11:49:58 AM
Been in work all week preparing the place for officially opening on Monday

Having looked at our procedures for infection control I'm confident that we are covering everything (I hope)

Apron, gloves, mask, face-shield, desk shields, disinfection wipes/sprays and sanitisers and continual washing hands at our sinks, that side of things are covered.

We've also questions for all of our patients in relation to their current health, and staggered appointments to allow us to wipe down each room before and after they leave.

Appointments only, no waiting and no walk in hours like before!

There is I'm sure other stuff I've left out, but did a run through yesterday and today, the new normal is going to take time to adjust to, how pubs and cafes and the like will get to a standard of safety needed or required is beyond me!

#Ad
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2020, 12:06:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 19, 2020, 11:56:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2020, 11:49:58 AM
Been in work all week preparing the place for officially opening on Monday

Having looked at our procedures for infection control I'm confident that we are covering everything (I hope)

Apron, gloves, mask, face-shield, desk shields, disinfection wipes/sprays and sanitisers and continual washing hands at our sinks, that side of things are covered.

We've also questions for all of our patients in relation to their current health, and staggered appointments to allow us to wipe down each room before and after they leave.

Appointments only, no waiting and no walk in hours like before!

There is I'm sure other stuff I've left out, but did a run through yesterday and today, the new normal is going to take time to adjust to, how pubs and cafes and the like will get to a standard of safety needed or required is beyond me!

I can see cafe handling it ok - changes surely but they will be fine.

Pubs on the other hand will be a mess after a few men/women get liquor down their throat

I've been in town this week and cafes that have outside space are open and serving away, I would say they could tighten things up a bit but I suppose these things will need to be worked on before getting it completely spot on!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on June 19, 2020, 12:26:20 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 19, 2020, 11:53:29 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 19, 2020, 11:29:19 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 19, 2020, 10:17:41 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 19, 2020, 09:44:48 AM
Anybody able to recommend a credible anti body test? Seems to be quite a few on the market and don't want to be shelling out for an unreliable one.

What's that going to tell you?
If you had it
And then what?
Nothing. Just curious and a bit of peace of mind if it was positive, that you already had it, and have some anitbodies against it to help with a possible second infection. And even if the antibodies dont last, that your likely to deal with a reinfection relatively ok*. Its for the wife, and I know everybody and their granny is coming out with this, but Id be shocked if she hasn't already got it given the range of bizarre symptoms she had. If you deem that a waste of money, I have no arguments, I have wasted money on a lot worse, just pure curiosity mostly by her. If it came back positive Id be tempted to get one for myself as I showed no symptoms, we decided that isolation from each other in the house was just impractical given we had 3 young kids.

* I know there is a lot more research to be done on this, but evidence thus far on why some people get a really bad dose and others mild could be down to genetics as well as other factors like underlying health conditions etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 19, 2020, 12:53:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2020, 11:49:58 AM
Been in work all week preparing the place for officially opening on Monday

Having looked at our procedures for infection control I'm confident that we are covering everything (I hope)

Apron, gloves, mask, face-shield, desk shields, disinfection wipes/sprays and sanitisers and continual washing hands at our sinks, that side of things are covered.

We've also questions for all of our patients in relation to their current health, and staggered appointments to allow us to wipe down each room before and after they leave.

Appointments only, no waiting and no walk in hours like before!

There is I'm sure other stuff I've left out, but did a run through yesterday and today, the new normal is going to take time to adjust to, how pubs and cafes and the like will get to a standard of safety needed or required is beyond me!

Are you providing facilities for customers to wash their hands? This is one aspect of things that I think has been overlooked, everyone is told to wash their hands but nobody is required to provide facilities for same.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2020, 01:00:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 19, 2020, 12:53:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2020, 11:49:58 AM
Been in work all week preparing the place for officially opening on Monday

Having looked at our procedures for infection control I'm confident that we are covering everything (I hope)

Apron, gloves, mask, face-shield, desk shields, disinfection wipes/sprays and sanitisers and continual washing hands at our sinks, that side of things are covered.

We've also questions for all of our patients in relation to their current health, and staggered appointments to allow us to wipe down each room before and after they leave.

Appointments only, no waiting and no walk in hours like before!

There is I'm sure other stuff I've left out, but did a run through yesterday and today, the new normal is going to take time to adjust to, how pubs and cafes and the like will get to a standard of safety needed or required is beyond me!

Are you providing facilities for customers to wash their hands? This is one aspect of things that I think has been overlooked, everyone is told to wash their hands but nobody is required to provide facilities for same.

We are providing hand sanitiser at entrance and use of face mask and gloves should they wish, we have hand washing facilities in each room (has been standard before) so they can use them if they so wish, but we were told if they use the hand sanitiser when they are in it should be fine.

I'd be in favour for that also as we can provide it, the last thing I want to do is bring home the virus and by the same token expose someone to it..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on June 19, 2020, 01:43:25 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 19, 2020, 12:26:20 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 19, 2020, 11:53:29 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 19, 2020, 11:29:19 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 19, 2020, 10:17:41 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 19, 2020, 09:44:48 AM
Anybody able to recommend a credible anti body test? Seems to be quite a few on the market and don't want to be shelling out for an unreliable one.

What's that going to tell you?
If you had it
And then what?
Nothing. Just curious and a bit of peace of mind if it was positive, that you already had it, and have some anitbodies against it to help with a possible second infection. And even if the antibodies dont last, that your likely to deal with a reinfection relatively ok*. Its for the wife, and I know everybody and their granny is coming out with this, but Id be shocked if she hasn't already got it given the range of bizarre symptoms she had. If you deem that a waste of money, I have no arguments, I have wasted money on a lot worse, just pure curiosity mostly by her. If it came back positive Id be tempted to get one for myself as I showed no symptoms, we decided that isolation from each other in the house was just impractical given we had 3 young kids.

* I know there is a lot more research to be done on this, but evidence thus far on why some people get a really bad dose and others mild could be down to genetics as well as other factors like underlying health conditions etc.

I was just concerned you were potentially lulling yourself or your wife into a false sense of security as you rightly point out there's a lot more investigation required into whether antibodies offer a form of natural vaccination and how long they potentially could last.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 19, 2020, 01:48:26 PM
Some additional data on the website for the 26
https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/

you can see the  clusters on the map here, which are retirement homes or meat plants
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 19, 2020, 02:13:07 PM
Talk that all Sport might now get the go ahead from 29th June.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 19, 2020, 02:46:54 PM
You had it all but shelved until 2022 Ross
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 19, 2020, 04:20:14 PM
Unlike you I'm not the World's leading Virologist or Pandemicist.

Anyway
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/irish-sport-set-for-summer-boost-with-matches-and-limited-crowds-allowed-from-june-29-39299626.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on June 19, 2020, 05:24:47 PM
Trump and this British government take spin to some level.

Passive aggressive stuff mixed with the most ridiculous superlatives. It must work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 19, 2020, 06:44:29 PM
Leo giving the nation the go ahead. Full o' the pipe!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on June 19, 2020, 06:49:24 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/ssTvyHy/Ea5-IUUNWo-AYv-NYA-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ygznWSW)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 19, 2020, 11:36:26 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53106444
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 20, 2020, 12:13:18 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 19, 2020, 11:36:26 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53106444

That's shite news.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 20, 2020, 02:00:06 AM
The breakdown of deaths by County in the ROI from coronavirus released by CSO last night.

Carlow - 14
Cavan - 38
Clare - 32
Cork - 49
Donegal - 40
Dublin - 742
Galway - 9
Kerry - 6
Kildare - 132
Kilkenny - 11
Laois - 15
Leitrim  - less than 5
Limerick - 30
Longford - 7
Louth - 49
Mayo - 41
Meath - 53
Monaghan - 50
Offaly -13
Roscommon - 10
Sligo - 7
Tipperary - 18
Waterford - less than 5
Wexford - 18
Westmeath - 23
Wicklow - 35
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: An Astrail on June 20, 2020, 07:47:58 AM
Conor McKenna tests positive - Essendon v Melbourne AFL game postponed as a result.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 20, 2020, 10:45:59 AM
Good to see Florida has it sussed

https://cbs12.com/news/local/florida-shows-signs-as-next-coronavirus-epicenter-as-cases-spike-across-the-country
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 20, 2020, 10:58:08 AM
13000 tests in the AFL 1 positive result I'd say that's good
Milltown Florida hospital admissions is away down. Cases up hospital admissions away down I would imagine they will be in a good position in 2 months as they will have a big percentage who have got it.
This virus is not as potent as many make it out to be.
McKenna has it and wasn't even sick. Crazy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on June 20, 2020, 07:20:08 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 20, 2020, 10:58:08 AM
13000 tests in the AFL 1 positive result I'd say that's good
Milltown Florida hospital admissions is away down. Cases up hospital admissions away down I would imagine they will be in a good position in 2 months as they will have a big percentage who have got it.
This virus is not as potent as many make it out to be.
McKenna has it and wasn't even sick. Crazy
Are you for real?  It's killed 450,000 people (that we know of).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on June 20, 2020, 07:38:39 PM
"Of the 22 confirmed cases we are reporting to you today, nine of these were diagnosed in people under the age of 35. It is important for us all to remember that Covid-19 is a disease that can affect everyone, of any age or background. No one should feel that this is a disease that does not affect them." the Republic's Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan said.
= http://www.irishnews.com/news/republicofirelandnews/2020/06/20/news/coronavirus-two-further-deaths-and-22-new-cases-in-the-republic-1980610/

But apparently this is a disease for the over 70s  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 20, 2020, 08:01:00 PM
Very real.
The common flu has a death toll of 850000 per year(that we know off)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 20, 2020, 08:49:40 PM
Where is that stat from?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on June 20, 2020, 09:46:11 PM
Germany's R rate has surged to 1.79.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-r-number-jumps-to-1-79-in-germany-after-abattoir-outbreak-12011468

See yis for the 2023 championship.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 20, 2020, 10:00:04 PM
 https://www.medscape.com/answers/219557-3459/what-is-the-global-incidence-of-influenza (https://www.medscape.com/answers/219557-3459/what-is-the-global-incidence-of-influenza)

According to this the who say between 250 and 500k per year deaths from flu :o

Not good Sid. I don't think the county stuff should even be looked at this year but that may happen yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on June 21, 2020, 12:21:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 20, 2020, 09:46:11 PM
Germany's R rate has surged to 1.79.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-r-number-jumps-to-1-79-in-germany-after-abattoir-outbreak-12011468

See yis for the 2023 championship.

To be fair in other articles they say when levels of the virus are so low, one outbreak like in this meat plant can cause the R rate to fluctuate greatly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 21, 2020, 09:48:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 20, 2020, 09:46:11 PM
Germany's R rate has surged to 1.79.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-r-number-jumps-to-1-79-in-germany-after-abattoir-outbreak-12011468

See yis for the 2023 championship.

That's a pity, I was looking forward to Donegal v Tyrone in the Allianz Arena
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 21, 2020, 11:36:52 AM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on June 21, 2020, 12:21:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 20, 2020, 09:46:11 PM
Germany's R rate has surged to 1.79.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-r-number-jumps-to-1-79-in-germany-after-abattoir-outbreak-12011468

See yis for the 2023 championship.

To be fair in other articles they say when levels of the virus are so low, one outbreak like in this meat plant can cause the R rate to fluctuate greatly.

It seems to have an affinity for spreading in meat plants.

Just postulating as to why
- Hygiene controls should already be good in such places.
- Does it persist longer on freshly slaughtered meat? and use it is a vehicle to jump from person to person? You'd think being gloved and masked would stop that.
- Thus, I wonder does it become much more persistent in aerosol form when temperature drops low enough (say, <5 degC). Typically viruses do break down quicker in heat.

*Goes away off to see if there has been any studies*

*comes back*

There has been stuff on Cov-1 (the original SARS) - bit grim - at low temperatures it persists much longer. Hopefully doesn't apply across to CoV-2

https://aem.asm.org/content/76/9/2712
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 21, 2020, 01:09:36 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on June 21, 2020, 12:21:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 20, 2020, 09:46:11 PM
Germany's R rate has surged to 1.79.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-r-number-jumps-to-1-79-in-germany-after-abattoir-outbreak-12011468

See yis for the 2023 championship.

To be fair in other articles they say when levels of the virus are so low, one outbreak like in this meat plant can cause the R rate to fluctuate greatly.

This type of caclulation based on one location isn't a great guide to activity generally.
However, it shows that the thing will spread if you aren't careful and it seems that here many people have decided to stop being careful.

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 21, 2020, 09:48:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 20, 2020, 09:46:11 PM
Germany's R rate has surged to 1.79.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-r-number-jumps-to-1-79-in-germany-after-abattoir-outbreak-12011468

See yis for the 2023 championship.

That's a pity, I was looking forward to Donegal v Tyrone in the Allianz Arena

Perhaps with the delay they can play  in Casement.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 21, 2020, 01:34:56 PM
2023 not 3023 :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 21, 2020, 05:34:52 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 21, 2020, 01:34:56 PM
2023 not 3023 :(

surely you meant 2032?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 21, 2020, 06:03:57 PM
Great to see no deaths and just 6 cases in the ROI and NI having no cases today.

97 cases this week in the ROI the first time to have cases under 100 since early March.

Deaths this week 14 (21 fewer deaths than last week)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 21, 2020, 06:37:15 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on June 21, 2020, 06:03:57 PM
Great to see no deaths and just 6 cases in the ROI and NI having no cases today.

97 cases this week in the ROI the first time to have cases under 100 since early March.

Deaths this week 14 (21 fewer deaths than last week)

Some of those deaths might have been a fortnight ago. Now that they have brought the nursing homes under control, the more recent cases have been meat plants and people coming from England and Sweden. These probably reflect a younger cohort, so the number of deaths will soon be zero most days. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 21, 2020, 06:59:10 PM
Was driving home earlier today and on my left I noticed a group of well dressed older middle aged men heading away from the British Legion, which had two cops at the door, the aul punter that's always at the door was sheepishly walking away with a half bottle of wine!

The feckers have been having a few lock-ins it seems, I know of another pub was doing the same recently, I wonder how much of this is going on?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 21, 2020, 07:10:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 21, 2020, 06:59:10 PM
Was driving home earlier today and on my left I noticed a group of well dressed older middle aged men heading away from the British Legion, which had two cops at the door, the aul punter that's always at the door was sheepishly walking away with a half bottle of wine!

The feckers have been having a few lock-ins it seems, I know of another pub was doing the same recently, I wonder how much of this is going on?

Will be rightly ramping up closer to the Glorious 12th I can imagine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 21, 2020, 07:38:18 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 21, 2020, 07:10:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 21, 2020, 06:59:10 PM
Was driving home earlier today and on my left I noticed a group of well dressed older middle aged men heading away from the British Legion, which had two cops at the door, the aul punter that's always at the door was sheepishly walking away with a half bottle of wine!

The feckers have been having a few lock-ins it seems, I know of another pub was doing the same recently, I wonder how much of this is going on?

Will be rightly ramping up closer to the Glorious 12th I can imagine.

There will be shebeens popping up everywhere
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 21, 2020, 08:24:24 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 21, 2020, 08:01:58 PM
I could see it happening in some of the back street clubs like the pigeon. That Legion club is on a busy main Belfast road, just up from a cop shop? Talk about hiding in plain sight!

The very one, I can't even imagine there's even a back door
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on June 21, 2020, 08:35:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 20, 2020, 09:46:11 PM
Germany's R rate has surged to 1.79.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-r-number-jumps-to-1-79-in-germany-after-abattoir-outbreak-12011468

See yis for the 2023 championship.

Up to 2.88👀👀
https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-germanys-r-number-rockets-again-from-1-79-to-2-88-12012143?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcoronavirus-germanys-r-number-rockets-again-from-1-79-to-2-88-12012143
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 21, 2020, 09:37:55 PM
Time for lockdown 2
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on June 21, 2020, 09:40:42 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 21, 2020, 09:37:55 PM
Time for lockdown 2
Time for lockdown 2 down but get all the childer back to school ;D
What a clown
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 21, 2020, 09:43:53 PM
☝️😃
You need to get out more.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 22, 2020, 01:00:37 AM
25,221 cases in the US in one day. They now have more reported tested deaths pro-rate than Ireland and with that number of new cases will mean more deaths there for some time to come. Trump's solution is to do less testing so there will be fewer reported cases!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 22, 2020, 06:18:06 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 21, 2020, 09:37:55 PM
Time for lockdown 2

...whatever, but the cynic in me sees Varadker opening nearly everything from next week due to him washing his hands from the goddamn thing if the programme for government is agreed to when he won't be Taoiseach anymore.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 22, 2020, 09:13:32 AM
What exactly do you want Leo to wait on?
When do you suggest he open up the country?
Now mind you phase 3 starts next week and phase 4 will start 3 weeks later.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 22, 2020, 09:26:07 AM
Do you have a link to the stat about 850k deaths a year worldwide from flu??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 22, 2020, 09:45:26 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 22, 2020, 09:26:07 AM
Do you have a link to the stat about 850k deaths a year worldwide from flu??

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/influenza-(seasonal)

"Illnesses range from mild to severe and even death. Hospitalization and death occur mainly among high risk groups. Worldwide, these annual epidemics are estimated to result in about 3 to 5 million cases of severe illness, and about 290 000 to 650 000 respiratory deaths"

Not quite the 850k according to WHO.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 22, 2020, 09:49:00 AM
Cheers. I did think it was a big figure and wondered where it came from.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on June 22, 2020, 09:50:41 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 22, 2020, 01:00:37 AM
25,221 cases in the US in one day. They now have more reported tested deaths pro-rate than Ireland and with that number of new cases will mean more deaths there for some time to come. Trump's solution is to do less testing so there will be fewer reported cases!

I heard him say that during his Tulsa speech on Saturday .... was a WTF moment, I'd to rewind to make sure I'd heard him correctly.  There were quite a few WTF moments during that speech, with his story about Westpoint and the leather shoes being something more akin to a stand-up comedian than a president.

US is screwed for some time to come due to Covid-19 and Trump's inadequacies in the face of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on June 22, 2020, 11:05:24 AM
Did anyone see the images of Trump coming of the chopper at the Whitehouse? Must've hit the drink !
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on June 22, 2020, 11:09:34 AM
Quote from: delgany on June 22, 2020, 11:05:24 AM
Did anyone see the images of Trump coming of the chopper at the Whitehouse? Must've hit the drink !
Sure he doesn't drink
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 22, 2020, 12:23:54 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on June 22, 2020, 09:50:41 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 22, 2020, 01:00:37 AM
25,221 cases in the US in one day. They now have more reported tested deaths pro-rate than Ireland and with that number of new cases will mean more deaths there for some time to come. Trump's solution is to do less testing so there will be fewer reported cases!

I heard him say that during his Tulsa speech on Saturday .... was a WTF moment, I'd to rewind to make sure I'd heard him correctly.  There were quite a few WTF moments during that speech, with his story about Westpoint and the leather shoes being something more akin to a stand-up comedian than a president.

US is screwed for some time to come due to Covid-19 and Trump's inadequacies in the face of it.
Back in March Trump was betting on a strong economy to win in November.
He made a horse's arse of the pandemic.
His numbers are very poor.
So is the economy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: nrico2006 on June 22, 2020, 12:31:30 PM
The US have made a balls of dealing with COVOD-19 but so have Ireland and the UK.  Nearly sure the UK are worse-off statistically and Ireland are essentially the same as the US.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 22, 2020, 12:53:18 PM
Has the NI CMO been sacked? He hasn't been seen or heard from in over a month, in the middle of the biggest public health emergency in anyone's lifetime! What an absolute chancer!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 22, 2020, 12:58:09 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 22, 2020, 12:53:18 PM
Has the NI CMO been sacked? He hasn't been seen or heard from in over a month, in the middle of the biggest public health emergency in anyone's lifetime! What an absolute chancer!!

Sure according to some its crushed, crushed I tell ya!

So no need for a CMO in fairness
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 22, 2020, 01:05:45 PM
Is it not crushed?
0 cases on Saturday if that's not crushed I don't know what is
Remember we were told prior to lockdown we needed to flatten the curve and save the nhs
We were never told it was eliminate the virus
What part do you not get?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2020, 01:06:51 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 22, 2020, 12:31:30 PM
The US have made a balls of dealing with COVOD-19 but so have Ireland and the UK.  Nearly sure the UK are worse-off statistically and Ireland are essentially the same as the US.

I think Ireland has done well
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 22, 2020, 01:17:45 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 22, 2020, 01:05:45 PM
Is it not crushed?
0 cases on Saturday if that's not crushed I don't know what is
Remember we were told prior to lockdown we needed to flatten the curve and save the nhs
We were never told it was eliminate the virus
What part do you not get?

;D

Yeah Mr2. What part do you not get lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on June 22, 2020, 01:31:58 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 22, 2020, 12:31:30 PM
The US have made a balls of dealing with COVOD-19 but so have Ireland and the UK.  Nearly sure the UK are worse-off statistically and Ireland are essentially the same as the US.

A significant difference is the virus is still running rampant in almost half the states in the US while community transmission has almost been extinguished in Ireland. At least for now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on June 22, 2020, 01:35:14 PM
6/21/2020


There's some good news for countries just beginning to reopen schools.

Their European counterparts — such as Denmark, Austria and Germany — that began sending children back to classrooms in April and early May, haven't seen significant increases in new cases. And experts are cautiously optimistic that sending children back to school may be relatively safe.

But it's early days yet. Incremental returns to school and robust infection control measures have been part of the game plan in those countries that have reopened classrooms successfully. With big questions around the virus still hanging in the air, some experts are issuing plenty of caveats.

The exemplar is Denmark, where the first children began returning in mid-April, when the country had just under 200 new cases a day. As of June 8, Denmark had just 14 daily new cases. And while the reproduction rate of the virus increased after the country began reopening, it has since dropped.

The head of experimental virology at Copenhagen University's Faculty of Health and Medical Sciences, Allan Randrup Thomsen, was initially hesitant about the move. But now he notes that, since reopening, there "hasn't been any effect that we can see."

In fact, the statistical models predicted there would be more spreading than was actually observed, according to Søren Riis Paludan, professor in virology at Aarhus University. The puzzle is why that didn't happen.

"Opening the schools has really not been translated into any imprint in the transmission numbers," he said.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 22, 2020, 01:54:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2020, 01:06:51 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 22, 2020, 12:31:30 PM
The US have made a balls of dealing with COVOD-19 but so have Ireland and the UK.  Nearly sure the UK are worse-off statistically and Ireland are essentially the same as the US.

I think Ireland has done well

Hard to argue, think the whole island has done rightly myself. Bar a few recent blemishes on the social distancing it was a good joint effort.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 22, 2020, 01:59:43 PM
Agreed. All things considered I also think we've done pretty well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on June 22, 2020, 02:38:00 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on June 22, 2020, 01:35:14 PM
6/21/2020


There's some good news for countries just beginning to reopen schools.

Their European counterparts — such as Denmark, Austria and Germany — that began sending children back to classrooms in April and early May, haven't seen significant increases in new cases. And experts are cautiously optimistic that sending children back to school may be relatively safe.

But it's early days yet. Incremental returns to school and robust infection control measures have been part of the game plan in those countries that have reopened classrooms successfully. With big questions around the virus still hanging in the air, some experts are issuing plenty of caveats.

The exemplar is Denmark, where the first children began returning in mid-April, when the country had just under 200 new cases a day. As of June 8, Denmark had just 14 daily new cases. And while the reproduction rate of the virus increased after the country began reopening, it has since dropped.

The head of experimental virology at Copenhagen University's Faculty of Health and Medical Sciences, Allan Randrup Thomsen, was initially hesitant about the move. But now he notes that, since reopening, there "hasn't been any effect that we can see."

In fact, the statistical models predicted there would be more spreading than was actually observed, according to Søren Riis Paludan, professor in virology at Aarhus University. The puzzle is why that didn't happen.

"Opening the schools has really not been translated into any imprint in the transmission numbers," he said.
That answers a question that I asked on the teachers' thread last week.  There appears to be very little evidence of schools being a source of the virus at all.  Hopefully September will see the full re-opening of schools without any implications.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 22, 2020, 02:58:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2020, 01:06:51 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 22, 2020, 12:31:30 PM
The US have made a balls of dealing with COVOD-19 but so have Ireland and the UK.  Nearly sure the UK are worse-off statistically and Ireland are essentially the same as the US.

I think Ireland has done well

Ireland is mid table on this one. They haven't done well, but they haven't made a balls of it like USA and UK. The USA will have many more deaths even from the cases being announced at present, GB is closer the the end of the wave.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on June 22, 2020, 04:46:56 PM
Anyone that thinks Ireland are doing as bad as the US are looking at Worldometer and jumping to conclusions.

With a bit more research here is one website that shows countries that has done well (Ireland included) and those doing bad (UK USA)

https://www.endcoronavirus.org/countries#winning
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 22, 2020, 11:50:22 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 22, 2020, 04:46:56 PM
Anyone that thinks Ireland are doing as bad as the US are looking at Worldometer and jumping to conclusions.

With a bit more research here is one website that shows countries that has done well (Ireland included) and those doing bad (UK USA)

https://www.endcoronavirus.org/countries#winning

A lot of the Ireland are doing bad comments are more about a dislike of Varadkar than anything else, just disengenious , Twitter awash with it. Not a FG fan by a long shot but govt has done well in ROI, after a very shaky start Stormont done ok too
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 23, 2020, 07:41:26 AM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on June 22, 2020, 01:31:58 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 22, 2020, 12:31:30 PM
The US have made a balls of dealing with COVOD-19 but so have Ireland and the UK.  Nearly sure the UK are worse-off statistically and Ireland are essentially the same as the US.

A significant difference is the virus is still running rampant in almost half the states in the US while community transmission has almost been extinguished in Ireland. At least for now.

Coronavirus is still expanding. Europe will be in a type of purgatory with limited economic activity until there is a vaccine.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 23, 2020, 09:37:02 AM
Conor McKenna posts a negative test, then an "irregular test" (postive in small amount), then a negative test in one week.

First reaction would be, these tests must be the type that you can buy off the shelf.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 23, 2020, 10:27:43 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 23, 2020, 09:37:02 AM
Conor McKenna posts a negative test, then an "irregular test" (postive in small amount), then a negative test in one week.

First reaction would be, these tests must be the type that you can buy off the shelf.

At £80 a pop and £125 in other places you'd be looking better confirmation than that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 01:17:32 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 23, 2020, 09:37:02 AM
Conor McKenna posts a negative test, then an "irregular test" (postive in small amount), then a negative test in one week.

First reaction would be, these tests must be the type that you can buy off the shelf.

Given how severe the sample gathering is - there is no way a home kit will be used correctly.

Ah, now see that it "should" be professionally performed test. WTF.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 23, 2020, 02:22:43 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 01:17:32 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 23, 2020, 09:37:02 AM
Conor McKenna posts a negative test, then an "irregular test" (postive in small amount), then a negative test in one week.

First reaction would be, these tests must be the type that you can buy off the shelf.

Given how severe the sample gathering is - there is no way a home kit will be used correctly.

Ah, now see that it "should" be professionally performed test. WTF.

Seems to be amateur hour stuff.

Essendon confirmed he tested positive on Friday and Saturday past, but negative today. The question is, how do you get two positive tests in a row then miraculously test negative 3 days later. Poses more questions than answers. Obviously he's an elite athlete but that surely doesn't extend to defeating Covid 19 over the weekend.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on June 23, 2020, 03:03:39 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on June 23, 2020, 02:07:29 PM
Irelands health workers has the highest rate of covid in the world to date

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ireland-s-health-workers-have-world-s-highest-rate-of-covid-19-committee-hears-1.4286233?fbclid=IwAR37NYdKbCfgxcrXRfxr6VSA_ZvB-zuB8vopqEBHllKZu5t_6E10VnEzJqo

Lack of the right PPE?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 05:32:52 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 23, 2020, 03:03:39 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on June 23, 2020, 02:07:29 PM
Irelands health workers has the highest rate of covid in the world to date

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ireland-s-health-workers-have-world-s-highest-rate-of-covid-19-committee-hears-1.4286233?fbclid=IwAR37NYdKbCfgxcrXRfxr6VSA_ZvB-zuB8vopqEBHllKZu5t_6E10VnEzJqo

Lack of the right PPE?

That's it, PPE and procedures for using it. Shocking, really.

edit:another outbreak in a meat plant in Germany
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53149762

Really, they will have to start using the big stick on these businesses that let the dose run rampant through their premises.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 23, 2020, 05:59:24 PM
The south of Ireland's death numbers seem to be a steady 5-10 a day this past few weeks. That's really not a good sign considering the amount of cases this 3 weeks. At this stage they should be saying more 1 and 2s. 7% of infected people have sadly passed away. Poor performance from the south. And before anyone says it yes I have changed my mind on them.i did say I thought they done well?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on June 23, 2020, 06:38:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 05:32:52 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 23, 2020, 03:03:39 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on June 23, 2020, 02:07:29 PM
Irelands health workers has the highest rate of covid in the world to date

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ireland-s-health-workers-have-world-s-highest-rate-of-covid-19-committee-hears-1.4286233?fbclid=IwAR37NYdKbCfgxcrXRfxr6VSA_ZvB-zuB8vopqEBHllKZu5t_6E10VnEzJqo

Lack of the right PPE?

That's it, PPE and procedures for using it. Shocking, really.

edit:another outbreak in a meat plant in Germany
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53149762

Really, they will have to start using the big stick on these businesses that let the dose run rampant through their premises.

Higher testing in South. My wife worked while way through the crisis in covid 19 Ward in north. Never ever got a test
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on June 23, 2020, 07:48:27 PM
Interesting article here summarising three case studies of transmission, there are some good visualisations in the article so I won't bother posting the text

https://english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2020-06-17/an-analysis-of-three-covid-19-outbreaks-how-they-happened-and-how-they-can-be-avoided.html?ssm=TW_CC
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 23, 2020, 08:42:44 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 23, 2020, 05:59:24 PM
The south of Ireland's death numbers seem to be a steady 5-10 a day this past few weeks. That's really not a good sign considering the amount of cases this 3 weeks. At this stage they should be saying more 1 and 2s. 7% of infected people have sadly passed away. Poor performance from the south. And before anyone says it yes I have changed my mind on them.i did say I thought they done well?
Hasn't been a double digit daily death number for 4 weeks. The 7 day average on deaths right now is 2 per day and a good number of recent deaths are probably from those that got the virus when weekly cases was much higher than they currently are.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on June 23, 2020, 08:46:23 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on June 23, 2020, 08:42:44 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 23, 2020, 05:59:24 PM
The south of Ireland's death numbers seem to be a steady 5-10 a day this past few weeks. That's really not a good sign considering the amount of cases this 3 weeks. At this stage they should be saying more 1 and 2s. 7% of infected people have sadly passed away. Poor performance from the south. And before anyone says it yes I have changed my mind on them.i did say I thought they done well?
Hasn't been a double digit daily death number for 4 weeks. The 7 day average on deaths right now is 2 per day and a good number of recent deaths are probably from those that got the virus when weekly cases was much higher than they currently are.
That's him told
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2020, 09:28:03 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 23, 2020, 07:48:27 PM
Interesting article here summarising three case studies of transmission, there are some good visualisations in the article so I won't bother posting the text

https://english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2020-06-17/an-analysis-of-three-covid-19-outbreaks-how-they-happened-and-how-they-can-be-avoided.html?ssm=TW_CC

Good find.

Had read the papers about the restaurant & Seoul office before, but that link does a really good job in explaining it very clearly to anyone and everyone.

Recommended reading.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 23, 2020, 10:42:50 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on June 23, 2020, 08:46:23 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on June 23, 2020, 08:42:44 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 23, 2020, 05:59:24 PM
The south of Ireland's death numbers seem to be a steady 5-10 a day this past few weeks. That's really not a good sign considering the amount of cases this 3 weeks. At this stage they should be saying more 1 and 2s. 7% of infected people have sadly passed away. Poor performance from the south. And before anyone says it yes I have changed my mind on them.i did say I thought they done well?
Hasn't been a double digit daily death number for 4 weeks. The 7 day average on deaths right now is 2 per day and a good number of recent deaths are probably from those that got the virus when weekly cases was much higher than they currently are.
That's him told

If only it was that easy, but you can't keep an eejit down.

Today there are +2,320 in Los Angeles, and 600 each in Riverside and San Bernardino. That's a very rapid rate of infection, warm weather obviously isn't a cure in itself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on June 24, 2020, 08:02:40 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 23, 2020, 07:48:27 PM
Interesting article here summarising three case studies of transmission, there are some good visualisations in the article so I won't bother posting the text

https://english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2020-06-17/an-analysis-of-three-covid-19-outbreaks-how-they-happened-and-how-they-can-be-avoided.html?ssm=TW_CC
That's a good one Mcdanger. Cheers for that.
Is aeroplanes recirculatiled ventilated air? I have read conflicting information on the risk on planes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 24, 2020, 08:31:48 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 24, 2020, 08:02:40 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 23, 2020, 07:48:27 PM
Interesting article here summarising three case studies of transmission, there are some good visualisations in the article so I won't bother posting the text

https://english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2020-06-17/an-analysis-of-three-covid-19-outbreaks-how-they-happened-and-how-they-can-be-avoided.html?ssm=TW_CC
That's a good one Mcdanger. Cheers for that.
Is aeroplanes recirculatiled ventilated air? I have read conflicting information on the risk on planes.

Air is planes is better than the air in offices believe it or not
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 24, 2020, 10:39:39 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 24, 2020, 08:02:40 AM
Is aeroplanes recirculatiled ventilated air? I have read conflicting information on the risk on planes.

Bit of both.

Roughly 50:50 fresh:recycled, with a full shift supposed to be occurring every 2-3 mins.

The recycled stuff is being fed back through HEPA filters, so its not as if its instantly poisonous!


But, your in a confined space with limited ventilation patterns - it is inherently risky. For instance, the guy in front of you has COVID and he has a small carry on bag blocking the air extraction grills to the side of his feet. So the air is flowing from the overhead units around him and back to you and down to the one under your feet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 24, 2020, 11:24:12 PM
The 7 day rolling average is more than 2 get your facts rights
No mention of the Germany r number today. That's right it's back down to 0.7
Scaremongers
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2020, 11:49:28 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 24, 2020, 11:24:12 PM
The 7 day rolling average is more than 2 get your facts rights
No mention of the Germany r number today. That's right it's back down to 0.7
Scaremongers


Ah those pesky deaths/cases spoilt your fun
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 25, 2020, 01:18:43 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 24, 2020, 11:24:12 PM
The 7 day rolling average is more than 2 get your facts rights

The 7 day average was 2 a day yesterday. 3+4+2+2+0+2+3= 16 divided by 7 = 2. Furthermore the previous 7 days (June 10th to 16th) the 7 day average was 3 day.


Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 23, 2020, 05:59:24 PM
The south of Ireland's death numbers seem to be a steady 5-10 a day this past few weeks.

Conclusion, take your own advice and get those facts right.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 25, 2020, 10:34:22 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbT8eBVX0AYb3zq?format=png)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 25, 2020, 11:07:34 AM
2nd negative test for Conor McKenna now.

The inital tests/testing were either a load of shite or Essendon are partaking in their old tricks....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on June 25, 2020, 02:13:55 PM
Murica

https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1275912010555932672

This angry Florida woman argued today against the mask mandate, while bringing up the devil, 5G, Bill Gates, Hillary Clinton, "the pedophiles" and the deep state.

Enjoy...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 25, 2020, 02:49:28 PM
Is there a link saying the Germany R rate is down to 0.7? I can't find any detail on that? (my source is google...)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 25, 2020, 02:51:52 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 25, 2020, 02:49:28 PM
Is there a link saying the Germany R rate is down to 0.7? I can't find any detail on that? (my source is google...)

You are in the right thread, so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2020, 03:03:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 25, 2020, 02:13:55 PM
Murica

https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1275912010555932672

This angry Florida woman argued today against the mask mandate, while bringing up the devil, 5G, Bill Gates, Hillary Clinton, "the pedophiles" and the deep state.

Enjoy...

Will Trump retweet her? :o

Sadly, there are a number of elected officials and office seekers on the Republican side who spew just this type of deranged verbal diarrhea.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2020, 03:12:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2020, 10:34:22 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbT8eBVX0AYb3zq?format=png)

Trump tells us all is well in the US, the "plague" is "going away" and the upsurge in numbers is simply down to more testing.

Without more testing, apparently, all those ICUs about to hit 100% full in various parts of the country would still be well below capacity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on June 25, 2020, 03:16:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 25, 2020, 02:49:28 PM
Is there a link saying the Germany R rate is down to 0.7? I can't find any detail on that? (my source is google...)

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora/status/1275826745355182081
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 25, 2020, 03:33:35 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 25, 2020, 03:16:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 25, 2020, 02:49:28 PM
Is there a link saying the Germany R rate is down to 0.7? I can't find any detail on that? (my source is google...)

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora/status/1275826745355182081

Any official charts/reports other than what this guy is saying?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 25, 2020, 03:39:06 PM
Lol. Ah from that guy haha.

Cheers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 25, 2020, 03:46:37 PM
Didn't Germany just release their tracing app in the past few days? You'd need to be a bit sceptical of any kind of R rise phenomenon reported by anyone in the media taking into account their own agendas for these type of things.

This R rate is thrown around too handy, nobody actually knows what it is....its guess work. The East Asians probably are the only ones would really have anything close to accurate owing to their experience in the past and commitment to the policy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 25, 2020, 04:15:38 PM
Those pictures from Bournemouth beach are not good viewing. The English at times really don't help themselves.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on June 25, 2020, 05:01:12 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 25, 2020, 04:15:38 PM
Those pictures from Bournemouth beach are not good viewing. The English at times really don't help themselves.

The English has really shown themselves up during this virus. Yes they have no respect for Boris and his government however they didn't have to act like idiots also.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 25, 2020, 05:06:21 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 25, 2020, 03:46:37 PM
Didn't Germany just release their tracing app in the past few days? You'd need to be a bit sceptical of any kind of R rise phenomenon reported by anyone in the media taking into account their own agendas for these type of things.

This R rate is thrown around too handy, nobody actually knows what it is....its guess work. The East Asians probably are the only ones would really have anything close to accurate owing to their experience in the past and commitment to the policy.

The R rate is something I wouldn't be too fussed on either. (not that I am an expert). Surely it's based on a sample set at a sample time and isn't entirely accurate? Also surely if they now say R rate of 2.79 or whatever it was that was 2 weeks ago as well?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 25, 2020, 05:35:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2020, 03:12:55 PM
Trump tells us all is well in the US, the "plague" is "going away" and the upsurge in numbers is simply down to more testing.

Without more testing, apparently, all those ICUs about to hit 100% full in various parts of the country would still be well below capacity.

Far be it for me to defend Trump, but when things were really bad in both Europe and NE USA, around the end of March, a lot of people were not tested. That is one reason why deaths are less now in the US although cases are similar.
But of course testing is absolutely required to track down  the bug.

The cases in Arizona show that heat alone does not kill it. However, while an Irish type summer might encourage you to get out, today is lovely, presumably people in Arizona stay in and use air con, which could circulate the virus, most of the time.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on June 25, 2020, 05:44:41 PM
The 2 metre social distancing rule in Northern Ireland to be reduced to 1 metre.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 25, 2020, 06:05:24 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 25, 2020, 05:44:41 PM
The 2 metre social distancing rule in Northern Ireland to be reduced to 1 metre.

Good news. I would urge that vulnerable people still should shield. As we all know those under 70 are at very little risk and we should be allowed to go about our daily lives unaffected.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 25, 2020, 06:10:05 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 25, 2020, 06:05:24 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 25, 2020, 05:44:41 PM
The 2 metre social distancing rule in Northern Ireland to be reduced to 1 metre.

Good news. I would urge that vulnerable people still should shield. As we all know those under 70 are at very little risk and we should be allowed to go about our daily lives unaffected.

Except for those under 70 with underlying conditions like, asthma, COPD, obesity, heart conditions diabetes and so on.

Plus those pesky ones that were under 70 and died !
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 25, 2020, 06:17:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2020, 05:35:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 25, 2020, 03:12:55 PM
Trump tells us all is well in the US, the "plague" is "going away" and the upsurge in numbers is simply down to more testing.

Without more testing, apparently, all those ICUs about to hit 100% full in various parts of the country would still be well below capacity.

Far be it for me to defend Trump, but when things were really bad in both Europe and NE USA, around the end of March, a lot of people were not tested. That is one reason why deaths are less now in the US although cases are similar.
But of course testing is absolutely required to track down  the bug.

The cases in Arizona show that heat alone does not kill it. However, while an Irish type summer might encourage you to get out, today is lovely, presumably people in Arizona stay in and use air con, which could circulate the virus, most of the time.

The proportion of positive tests is on the increase in the US as a whole after an initial decrease when testing was ramped up. And that is including in the data the northeast where the proportion has decreased dramatically and continues to do so.

There are multiple states and cities where ICU beds are getting close to full capacity. That was not the case previously.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 26, 2020, 06:54:33 PM
Florida with +8,942 cases. That is more than were reported in Spain at their peak, but Spain has twice the population.
If you have the 10%+ of people getting hospitalised, then 900 more people hitting hospitals in one day. 20% of those would need ICU type facilities.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on June 27, 2020, 06:09:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 26, 2020, 06:54:33 PM
Florida with +8,942 cases. That is more than were reported in Spain at their peak, but Spain has twice the population.
If you have the 10%+ of people getting hospitalised, then 900 more people hitting hospitals in one day. 20% of those would need ICU type facilities.

Ah give over.  We've crushed it.  You just want more of the furlong.  Sure 103% of the people who died were over 70.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 27, 2020, 07:29:48 PM
6 more deaths and 23 new cases reported in the 26 today.
CMO says he's worried by the number of young people getting the disease these days
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 27, 2020, 07:32:02 PM
The south of Ireland getting an easing ride. Low number if cases this weeks and deaths still up around 5 per day. What a mess they are making of this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on June 27, 2020, 07:49:19 PM
We live on an island.  Numbers are down to bare minimum.  Overseas travel is now the risk.  It will only spike again because people go overseas and bring it back, or visitors bring it onto the island.  Track and Trace now crucial.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 27, 2020, 08:19:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 27, 2020, 07:29:48 PM
6 more deaths and 23 new cases reported in the 26 today.
CMO says he's worried by the number of young people getting the disease these days
Young people don't get it sure! Prof smurphy will tell you that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 27, 2020, 09:18:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 27, 2020, 08:19:22 PM
Young people don't get it

that's what Holohan said and he didn't mean the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 27, 2020, 09:23:23 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 27, 2020, 07:32:02 PM
The south of Ireland getting an easing ride. Low number if cases this weeks and deaths still up around 5 per day. What a mess they are making of this

Still struggling with basic maths and you don't seem to realise the majority of deaths this week are people that picked up the virus when we had over 1000 cases per week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 27, 2020, 10:05:00 PM
Of today's 23 new cases
10 were under 35
8 were between 35 and 54.
Next week pubs and restaurants open and full contact sports training not to mention creches.
We need Smurfy on the job urgently.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 27, 2020, 10:05:29 PM
We're probably at the point that there is little to no Coronavirus in Ireland. If you've friends or family travelling abroad either for work or pleasure they're the biggest threat and should be treated as such. Otherwise it's all clear.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 27, 2020, 10:11:38 PM
Ross out of those 18 how many needed hospital treatment
A lot of numbers and no real substance
Some crap
The younger the people getting it the better
The virus is losing the fight
It took on the elderly and won but it won't beat the youth
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on June 27, 2020, 10:23:19 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 27, 2020, 10:11:38 PM
Ross out of those 18 how many needed hospital treatment
A lot of numbers and no real substance
Some crap
The younger the people getting it the better
The virus is losing the fight
It took on the elderly and won but it won't beat the youth
With that sort of fighting rhetoric, I'd say the virus will be quaking in its boots



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 27, 2020, 10:35:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 27, 2020, 10:23:19 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 27, 2020, 10:11:38 PM
Ross out of those 18 how many needed hospital treatment
A lot of numbers and no real substance
Some crap
The younger the people getting it the better
The virus is losing the fight
It took on the elderly and won but it won't beat the youth
With that sort of fighting rhetoric, I'd say the virus will be quaking in its boots

Do you think Covid-19 reads the GAABOARD?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 27, 2020, 10:36:22 PM
😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: STREET FIGHTER on June 27, 2020, 11:01:15 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 27, 2020, 10:36:22 PM
😂😂😂😂

Sums up about 99% of your contribution to date....

65,000 + dead but sure you just use your wee smiley face...

Let's try and move forward....all for that....but you'll be remembered for nothing more than contradictory BS.....

RIP to all those who have passed away.....and condolences to their families....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on June 28, 2020, 12:32:41 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 27, 2020, 10:35:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 27, 2020, 10:23:19 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 27, 2020, 10:11:38 PM
Ross out of those 18 how many needed hospital treatment
A lot of numbers and no real substance
Some crap
The younger the people getting it the better
The virus is losing the fight
It took on the elderly and won but it won't beat the youth
With that sort of fighting rhetoric, I'd say the virus will be quaking in its boots

Do you think Covid-19 reads the GAABOARD?
Do you do irony?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on June 28, 2020, 12:50:51 AM
The wife does it for him
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 28, 2020, 01:10:49 AM
Give over street fighter ya clown
That crap doesn't wash with me
Trying to be the hero
Who is laughing at anyone?
65000 dead? 497442 dead you clown
RIP to them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: STREET FIGHTER on June 28, 2020, 12:23:12 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 28, 2020, 01:10:49 AM
Give over street fighter ya clown
That crap doesn't wash with me
Trying to be the hero
Who is laughing at anyone?
65000 dead? 497442 dead you clown
RIP to them

Just accept the fact that for the majority of the time you've let yourself down on this thread with your idiotic rambling....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 28, 2020, 01:46:29 PM
Let myself down for not having the same opinion as yourself you clown
Go back and look and you will find most of what I was saying at the start of May has materialised. I said the virus wasn't as deadly as people were making it out to be and that things were improving at a very fast rate. And don't come at me with x amount of people have lost their lives. I know that and we could use that for every walk in life. You clown
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 28, 2020, 02:11:51 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 28, 2020, 01:46:29 PM
Let myself down for not having the same opinion as yourself you clown
Go back and look and you will find most of what I was saying at the start of May has materialised. I said the virus wasn't as deadly as people were making it out to be and that things were improving at a very fast rate. And don't come at me with x amount of people have lost their lives. I know that and we could use that for every walk in life. You clown

Off course it got better at the start of May because of lockdown, if lockdown didn't happen would there have been more deaths?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 28, 2020, 02:50:05 PM
No my big gripe was people on here had things stopped until we had a vaccine
I pointed out that it could be years and it may never happen and that things needed to get back to the new normal as soon as because the high predictions in deaths never happened
I do believe if we had of locked down the old and vulnerable and secured all care homes in the north straight away and no lockdown to the young and healthy we would have had the same number or less. The fatality rate at the start of May was 6% of infected people that is now down to 1%. Thats probably down to a number of factors but the fact that younger people are now getting it is why that nunber had went down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 28, 2020, 05:30:02 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 28, 2020, 02:50:05 PM
No my big gripe was people on here had things stopped until we had a vaccine
I pointed out that it could be years and it may never happen and that things needed to get back to the new normal as soon as because the high predictions in deaths never happened
I do believe if we had of locked down the old and vulnerable and secured all care homes in the north straight away and no lockdown to the young and healthy we would have had the same number or less. The fatality rate at the start of May was 6% of infected people that is now down to 1%. Thats probably down to a number of factors but the fact that younger people are now getting it is why that nunber had went down.

I'd have locked down the airports and complete lockdown for three weeks with essential needs only done, it didn't happen so what happened was the lockdown we had and it saved lives, could have saved more but your nonsense of under 70's is nauseating tbf, whether someone dies or not, if they contracted this brand new virus that wasn't being fought properly with at the start was giving people lasting conditions or may lead to more medical issues later on in life.

I think there was maybe 2/3 posters at most had it locked down till vaccine, so stop talking rubbish.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 28, 2020, 05:42:11 PM
Scotland has no reported deaths for the third day in a row.
They'll have to make sure they keep the English out though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 28, 2020, 05:42:44 PM
Another week over.

67 cases the lowest weekly number of cases in the ROI since the first week of March and unlike March that number of cases came from over 20,000 weekly tests

22 deaths confirmed this week which works out as 3 per day weekly average.


More restrictions lifted from tomorrow we'll do well to see numbers as low this time next week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 28, 2020, 07:58:34 PM
The US recorded more than 42,000 new cases nationwide on Saturday and 500 deaths, according to Johns Hopkins University. 

FT
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 29, 2020, 11:11:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 28, 2020, 07:58:34 PM
The US recorded more than 42,000 new cases nationwide on Saturday and 500 deaths, according to Johns Hopkins University.

FT

Different breed of people there. Saying that, if any lunatic can buy an automatic weapon in their daily shop suppose you'd tend to be more worried about that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 29, 2020, 11:37:51 AM
Sure it's only a severe cold some said

https://m.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/breathing-difficulties-pain-and-intense-fatigue-the-long-tail-of-covid-19-39319034.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on June 29, 2020, 11:56:05 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 29, 2020, 11:37:51 AM
Sure it's only a severe cold some said

https://m.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/breathing-difficulties-pain-and-intense-fatigue-the-long-tail-of-covid-19-39319034.html

Something overlooked with the absolute focus on death numbers. Many stories of 'survivors' suffering lasting damage that will permanently affect their quality of life. It's difficult not to feel that a lot of the analysis of the impact of this pandemic has been very oversimplified.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 29, 2020, 12:03:00 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on June 29, 2020, 11:56:05 AM
Something overlooked with the absolute focus on death numbers. Many stories of 'survivors' suffering lasting damage that will permanently affect their quality of life. It's difficult not to feel that a lot of the analysis of the impact of this pandemic has been very oversimplified.

Looking at Bournemouth (or Murlough) over the weekend and its obviously not simplified enough for some dumbfucks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 29, 2020, 03:57:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 28, 2020, 07:58:34 PM
The US recorded more than 42,000 new cases nationwide on Saturday and 500 deaths, according to Johns Hopkins University.

FT

Not good.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbrQTdiXkAEhHFf?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 29, 2020, 06:32:01 PM
24 cases in the 26 counties today. It is clear that numbers are no longer going down here, like other places in Europe, although deaths will go down. We have decided not to drive it down to zero but prefer to go to Primark instead.

Interestingly, Siobhán Killeen, Dublin GAA footballer, spoke of her battle with coronavirus.

"The after-effects of this disease are very serious, even for those who are fit and healthy. I was in very good health, but it was a very tough battle".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 29, 2020, 06:38:24 PM
I'd he fearful of what might happen in the next few weeks with all the things opening up and the attitude of many people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 29, 2020, 07:58:48 PM
Where are the cases down south? Are they spread out or are they a lot of cases in the same place?

Far from over yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on June 29, 2020, 08:02:07 PM
RTE reporting that one cluster is in the north west, and originated from travel, traced backed to Iraq.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 29, 2020, 08:09:08 PM
It will be interesting to see how that pans out. If they were from travel and the people can be isolated hopefully it won't amount to much of a spread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 29, 2020, 08:46:05 PM
Lovely

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53218704
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 29, 2020, 08:54:42 PM
With regards to travelling and quarantining, would a test on return not enable you to just go back to work and not have to quarantine for two weeks?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 29, 2020, 09:14:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 29, 2020, 08:54:42 PM
With regards to travelling and quarantining, would a test on return not enable you to just go back to work and not have to quarantine for two weeks?

No, you would need two tests 3 days apart or some such, if you picked up the infection on the plane you would not test positive on arrival.

Some countries have schemes for tourists in that the go somewhere (nice) for a couple of days and are then tested and are then free to roam around. Sri Lanka has something like that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on June 29, 2020, 09:29:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2020, 06:32:01 PM
24 cases in the 26 counties today. It is clear that numbers are no longer going down here, like other places in Europe, although deaths will go down. We have decided not to drive it down to zero but prefer to go to Primark instead.


The more you test the more cases you find. 3,200 tests done in the last 24 hours - this figure was 1,500 last week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 29, 2020, 10:04:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 28, 2020, 07:58:34 PM
The US recorded more than 42,000 new cases nationwide on Saturday and 500 deaths, according to Johns Hopkins University.

FT

That is half the number of cases recorded in China in total.
And as for covering it up, China has conducted 90m tests, so they would have to cover it up as they would know.

Quote from: Blowitupref on June 29, 2020, 09:29:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2020, 06:32:01 PM
24 cases in the 26 counties today. It is clear that numbers are no longer going down here, like other places in Europe, although deaths will go down. We have decided not to drive it down to zero but prefer to go to Primark instead.


The more you test the more cases you find. 3,200 tests done in the last 24 hours - this figure was 1,500 last week.

But these tests are mostly on contacts, so there are more seed cases leading to the increased number of tests. Travel is going to lead to loads of seed cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on June 29, 2020, 10:18:40 PM
A spokesperson for WHO said the worst is yet to come as some countries not taking it seriously
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on June 29, 2020, 10:59:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2020, 10:04:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 28, 2020, 07:58:34 PM
The US recorded more than 42,000 new cases nationwide on Saturday and 500 deaths, according to Johns Hopkins University.

FT

That is half the number of cases recorded in China in total.
And as for covering it up, China has conducted 90m tests, so they would have to cover it up as they would know.

Quote from: Blowitupref on June 29, 2020, 09:29:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2020, 06:32:01 PM
24 cases in the 26 counties today. It is clear that numbers are no longer going down here, like other places in Europe, although deaths will go down. We have decided not to drive it down to zero but prefer to go to Primark instead.


The more you test the more cases you find. 3,200 tests done in the last 24 hours - this figure was 1,500 last week.

But these tests are mostly on contacts, so there are more seed cases leading to the increased number of tests. Travel is going to lead to loads of seed cases.

The positivity rate is still low and It's about managing any spikes in cases. Right now it seems international travel is the biggest concern health experts have about the months ahead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: MayoBuck on June 29, 2020, 11:04:59 PM
It's alright telling people not to go on a holiday to Spain, Amsterdam etc but I know people over in London that haven't seen their parents since January or February. They have flights booked home in the next few weeks and that will surely result in more clusters around the country.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 29, 2020, 11:22:15 PM
Depending on the age of their parents they might be better not to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 30, 2020, 09:06:00 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on June 29, 2020, 10:18:40 PM
A spokesperson for WHO said the worst is yet to come as some countries not taking it seriously

I believe the WHO might be engaging in some propaganda against their former friends who pulled payment quite publicly recently.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on June 30, 2020, 09:08:53 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 30, 2020, 09:06:00 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on June 29, 2020, 10:18:40 PM
A spokesperson for WHO said the worst is yet to come as some countries not taking it seriously

I believe the WHO might be engaging in some propaganda against their former friends who pulled payment quite publicly recently.

Or they might just be telling the truth based on what they know at this stage about the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 30, 2020, 09:14:15 AM
Quote from: lenny on June 30, 2020, 09:08:53 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 30, 2020, 09:06:00 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on June 29, 2020, 10:18:40 PM
A spokesperson for WHO said the worst is yet to come as some countries not taking it seriously

I believe the WHO might be engaging in some propaganda against their former friends who pulled payment quite publicly recently.

Or they might just be telling the truth based on what they know at this stage about the virus.

Possible also, either way. The misinformatiion and agenda surrounding Covid 19 continues.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 30, 2020, 09:27:25 AM
I wouldn't say they're wrong in some cases. How does America get it out of their country or calm it down? 40k+ cases in one day in one state in one day. If even a small fraction of those pass it on then it's still a lot and then they pass it on again. At current rate if they don't calm it down they will go towards herd immunity. This then becomes a big problem for anyone wanting to travel  there as you need to make sure it doesn't come back with you.

The world is full of misinformation these days. if you even look at this thread and social media surrounding that wee boy in north belfast. (Now that was sinister misinformation but misinformation none the less)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 30, 2020, 10:01:47 AM
I don't think the Americans care about it to be totally honest. I know a few fellas over there from my time and locking it down European style is laughed at.

Economy first, can't let the Chinese gobble up our ports on the cheap.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 30, 2020, 10:10:47 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/29/leicester-put-back-lockdown-coronavirus-cases-rise/

Leicester has become the first city in Britain to be plunged back into lockdown after public health officials expressed alarm at a significant rise in Covid-19 cases.
Shops that only reopened on June 15 have been ordered to close from today, schools will be shut from Thursday to all but vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers, pubs and restaurants will remain shut on July 4 and a proposed relaxation of shielding on July 6 has been cancelled
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 30, 2020, 10:14:59 AM
Paywall. Have they any idea where it's spreading from? Have any events / locations been identified?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 30, 2020, 10:31:15 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 30, 2020, 10:14:59 AM
Paywall. Have they any idea where it's spreading from? Have any events / locations been identified?

The Mayor of Leicester was on RTÉ radio this morning, the government haven't given them the detailed data so they don't know quite know what is happening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 30, 2020, 10:32:32 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 30, 2020, 10:14:59 AM
Paywall. Have they any idea where it's spreading from? Have any events / locations been identified?

Locals being interviewed on BBC this morning almost in tears at the thought of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 30, 2020, 10:33:37 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 30, 2020, 10:32:32 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 30, 2020, 10:14:59 AM
Paywall. Have they any idea where it's spreading from? Have any events / locations been identified?

Locals being interviewed on BBC this morning almost in tears at the thought of it.

Well some of the locals have been acting the maggot. they have 5 times the cases of the next worse place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 30, 2020, 10:39:02 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 30, 2020, 10:33:37 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 30, 2020, 10:32:32 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 30, 2020, 10:14:59 AM
Paywall. Have they any idea where it's spreading from? Have any events / locations been identified?

Locals being interviewed on BBC this morning almost in tears at the thought of it.

Well some of the locals have been acting the maggot. they have 5 times the cases of the next worse place.

Yes obviously some spoiling it for the rest as usual. Heres a quote from a local MP in the area

'Appearing on breakfast TV this morning she said that high poverty, more positive coronavirus tests and higher ethnic diversity in Leicester East had contributed to a "perfect storm".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 30, 2020, 10:45:34 AM
How do you police a local lockdown? As in, I live in Leicester.....can I not just travel to Birmingham on the tear?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 30, 2020, 10:59:00 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 30, 2020, 10:39:02 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 30, 2020, 10:33:37 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 30, 2020, 10:32:32 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 30, 2020, 10:14:59 AM
Paywall. Have they any idea where it's spreading from? Have any events / locations been identified?

Locals being interviewed on BBC this morning almost in tears at the thought of it.

Well some of the locals have been acting the maggot. they have 5 times the cases of the next worse place.

Yes obviously some spoiling it for the rest as usual. Heres a quote from a local MP in the area

'Appearing on breakfast TV this morning she said that high poverty, more positive coronavirus tests and higher ethnic diversity in Leicester East had contributed to a "perfect storm".

The health secretary told BBC Breakfast there had been "an unusually high incidence" of coronavirus among children in Leicester since increased testing began in the city 10 days ago
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 30, 2020, 01:05:49 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 30, 2020, 10:59:00 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 30, 2020, 10:39:02 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 30, 2020, 10:33:37 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 30, 2020, 10:32:32 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 30, 2020, 10:14:59 AM
Paywall. Have they any idea where it's spreading from? Have any events / locations been identified?

Locals being interviewed on BBC this morning almost in tears at the thought of it.

Well some of the locals have been acting the maggot. they have 5 times the cases of the next worse place.

Yes obviously some spoiling it for the rest as usual. Heres a quote from a local MP in the area

'Appearing on breakfast TV this morning she said that high poverty, more positive coronavirus tests and higher ethnic diversity in Leicester East had contributed to a "perfect storm".

The health secretary told BBC Breakfast there had been "an unusually high incidence" of coronavirus among children in Leicester since increased testing began in the city 10 days ago

Cant be right  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2020, 01:56:14 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 30, 2020, 01:05:49 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 30, 2020, 10:59:00 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 30, 2020, 10:39:02 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 30, 2020, 10:33:37 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 30, 2020, 10:32:32 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 30, 2020, 10:14:59 AM
Paywall. Have they any idea where it's spreading from? Have any events / locations been identified?

Locals being interviewed on BBC this morning almost in tears at the thought of it.

Well some of the locals have been acting the maggot. they have 5 times the cases of the next worse place.

Yes obviously some spoiling it for the rest as usual. Heres a quote from a local MP in the area

'Appearing on breakfast TV this morning she said that high poverty, more positive coronavirus tests and higher ethnic diversity in Leicester East had contributed to a "perfect storm".

The health secretary told BBC Breakfast there had been "an unusually high incidence" of coronavirus among children in Leicester since increased testing began in the city 10 days ago

Cant be right  ::)

Prof, Trailer and smurphy will have something to say about that!

Close the schools ffs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on June 30, 2020, 02:15:56 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 30, 2020, 10:01:47 AM
I don't think the Americans care about it to be totally honest. I know a few fellas over there from my time and locking it down European style is laughed at.

Economy first, can't let the Chinese gobble up our ports on the cheap.

Tbf to the Americans, I don't think they don't have the same social security system we have over here so I'd say many people are largely on their own financially during lockdown. Any of the US based posters know what support your average Joe gets during lockdown? Or is it state dependent?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 30, 2020, 02:37:23 PM
Milltown cases are going up in America but deaths are going down. Would it not make sense for younger ones to get it now in the summer months. Little or no kids die from the virus. Imagine testing every kid that had influenza? Jesus we would be up to 3/4000 per day alone in kids for a few .
Anyone with symptoms are getting tested. Anyone with influenza symptoms in normal time told to stay in the house


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 30, 2020, 02:41:59 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 30, 2020, 02:37:23 PM
Milltown cases are going up in America but deaths are going down. Would it not make sense for younger ones to get it now in the summer months. Little or no kids die from the virus. Imagine testing every kid that had influenza? Jesus we would be up to 3/4000 per day alone in kids for a few .
Anyone with symptoms are getting tested. Anyone with influenza symptoms in normal time told to stay in the house

Who would you suggest these kids stay with when they contract it?
Would they come in contact with adults/elderly or the vulnerable?

This is the point many on here have been making all along about kids getting it - few will die but this doesnt mean they wont give it to someone else
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 30, 2020, 03:47:11 PM
In the north there are 95 ICU beds. 60 are occupied with non covid patients and yes there are no covid patients in ICU at present. We need to careful with this as we do not have the infrastructure, or remotely close to the infrastructure to deal with bad outbreaks.Yes there is a balance to be struck but I am not sure that sending kids out over the summer months to "get it now" would be any form of solution here :o ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 30, 2020, 04:00:31 PM
It's laughable. We're been asked to maintain social distancing, stay at home, keep kids from School, pubs, restaurants closed and then we have those scenes in Belfast today? Time those in power here wised up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on June 30, 2020, 04:18:26 PM
I would suggest that their parents look after them. Jesus man if you had that attitude to everything in life. You can not eradicate every health risk in life and it's the same with Covid. Some will catch it many won't. Let the kids back to school. That's my opinion and that will not change. They have been off for 4 months and will be off for another 2 now that 6 months. That is just not on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 30, 2020, 04:35:56 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 30, 2020, 02:41:59 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 30, 2020, 02:37:23 PM
Milltown cases are going up in America but deaths are going down. Would it not make sense for younger ones to get it now in the summer months. Little or no kids die from the virus. Imagine testing every kid that had influenza? Jesus we would be up to 3/4000 per day alone in kids for a few .
Anyone with symptoms are getting tested. Anyone with influenza symptoms in normal time told to stay in the house

Who would you suggest these kids stay with when they contract it?
Would they come in contact with adults/elderly or the vulnerable?

This is the point many on here have been making all along about kids getting it - few will die but this doesnt mean they wont give it to someone else

Can you get someone to mind the kids with Covid as well?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: STREET FIGHTER on June 30, 2020, 07:36:42 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 30, 2020, 02:37:23 PM
Milltown cases are going up in America but deaths are going down. Would it not make sense for younger ones to get it now in the summer months. Little or no kids die from the virus. Imagine testing every kid that had influenza? Jesus we would be up to 3/4000 per day alone in kids for a few .
Anyone with symptoms are getting tested. Anyone with influenza symptoms in normal time told to stay in the house

This right here......a perfect example of what I have been referring too...

*Retorts Street Fighter is a clown....

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omagh_gael on June 30, 2020, 08:43:45 PM
What way does travel abroad stand now out of Dublin Airport? If you take France as an example it appears you can fly there and not have to self isolate but when you come back to the south you have to on the Irish side. Is that correct? What about northerners flying out of Dublin? What system do they have for checking if they self isolate?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2020, 08:52:50 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 30, 2020, 08:43:45 PM
What way does travel abroad stand now out of Dublin Airport? If you take France as an example it appears you can fly there and not have to self isolate but when you come back to the south you have to on the Irish side. Is that correct? What about northerners flying out of Dublin? What system do they have for checking if they self isolate?

But if there is an air bridge between those countries you don't have to quarantine when home.

How will you be checked if you fly from Dublin and go to Portugal? Which doesn't have these air bridges?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: omagh_gael on June 30, 2020, 08:59:15 PM
I don't think Ireland has an air bridge with anyone as of yet as they aren't in the Schengen area. Is that correct? Been looking around for a short break in the south but prices are fecking unreal. A family member has a house in S France in middle of nowhere. Be tempted to head over for a few days late July. Flights just 100e return.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on June 30, 2020, 09:23:20 PM
There won't be a sinner isolates. You have to be very naive to think that they will.

Week off work + isolation time unpaid maybe or as part of leave? Maybe the best deterrent will be the prices.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 30, 2020, 09:48:52 PM
Nordies can do what they like, since they don't have a proper government.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2020, 09:54:29 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 30, 2020, 09:23:20 PM
There won't be a sinner isolates. You have to be very naive to think that they will.

Week off work + isolation time unpaid maybe or as part of leave? Maybe the best deterrent will be the prices.

All travel will have its issues, people travelling to London for work and coming home at weekends is more dangerous than going to a holiday home somewhere in France, but it's allowed and ok to go to London???!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 30, 2020, 09:56:15 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/ireland-left-out-as-eu-opens-borders-to-15-states-including-australia-canada-and-japan-1.4292678

European Union member states approved a list of 15 countries around the world that are deemed safe for travel, agreeing that member states should open their border to them for all travel from Wednesday.

Unusually among EU member states, Irelandis not part of the agreement because it is not in the Schengen area of free travel and has a Common Travel Area with the United Kingdom.

Ireland was invited to take part in the joint agreement, but could only do so if Britain also agreed due to the open border, and it opted not to do so, The Irish Times understands

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 30, 2020, 10:23:19 PM
Watching the programme on RTË about the Covid patients. I wonder how many others they filmed who did not make it and they did not use the film?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 01, 2020, 09:43:57 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2020, 09:54:29 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 30, 2020, 09:23:20 PM
There won't be a sinner isolates. You have to be very naive to think that they will.

Week off work + isolation time unpaid maybe or as part of leave? Maybe the best deterrent will be the prices.

All travel will have its issues, people travelling to London for work and coming home at weekends is more dangerous than going to a holiday home somewhere in France, but it's allowed and ok to go to London???!!!

I agree with you, I just don't think there is any point having the isolation period when humans being humans, they'll do whats right for them, not whats right for the rest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 01, 2020, 10:05:02 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2020, 09:54:29 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 30, 2020, 09:23:20 PM
There won't be a sinner isolates. You have to be very naive to think that they will.

Week off work + isolation time unpaid maybe or as part of leave? Maybe the best deterrent will be the prices.

All travel will have its issues, people travelling to London for work and coming home at weekends is more dangerous than going to a holiday home somewhere in France, but it's allowed and ok to go to London???!!!

It isn't OK to g to London, but in the 6 counties with their dysfunctional government they do nothing to dissuade it.
Because it legal does not make it right.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 01, 2020, 10:20:51 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 01, 2020, 10:05:02 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2020, 09:54:29 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 30, 2020, 09:23:20 PM
There won't be a sinner isolates. You have to be very naive to think that they will.

Week off work + isolation time unpaid maybe or as part of leave? Maybe the best deterrent will be the prices.

All travel will have its issues, people travelling to London for work and coming home at weekends is more dangerous than going to a holiday home somewhere in France, but it's allowed and ok to go to London???!!!

It isn't OK to g to London, but in the 6 counties with their dysfunctional government they do nothing to dissuade it.
Because it legal does not make it right.

Aerlingus flights to London from Belfast have continued right through the pandemic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 01, 2020, 11:21:33 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 01, 2020, 10:05:02 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2020, 09:54:29 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 30, 2020, 09:23:20 PM
There won't be a sinner isolates. You have to be very naive to think that they will.

Week off work + isolation time unpaid maybe or as part of leave? Maybe the best deterrent will be the prices.

All travel will have its issues, people travelling to London for work and coming home at weekends is more dangerous than going to a holiday home somewhere in France, but it's allowed and ok to go to London???!!!

It isn't OK to g to London, but in the 6 counties with their dysfunctional government they do nothing to dissuade it.
Because it legal does not make it right.

Has there been flights from Dublin to London?

If you have a job in London and allowed to go then you'll go, as your business will go under if you don't or unable to pay for a mortgage or whatever you need the money for..

Working within the social distancing regulations and doing the sensible things wont bring you into harms way.


A mates holiday just been cancelled I'm sure he's happy as that side of things has been taken away from him and that's a refund for him. Jet2 have cancelled all holidays to Greece till 2021, there's an economy that will be hit hard
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 01, 2020, 01:41:21 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on June 30, 2020, 02:37:23 PM
Milltown cases are going up in America but deaths are going down. Would it not make sense for younger ones to get it now in the summer months. Little or no kids die from the virus. Imagine testing every kid that had influenza? Jesus we would be up to 3/4000 per day alone in kids for a few .
Anyone with symptoms are getting tested. Anyone with influenza symptoms in normal time told to stay in the house

Deaths are going down for now.

Let's see where we are when the lag period between the current new spate of infections and the disease running its course in people elapses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 01, 2020, 01:44:47 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 30, 2020, 02:15:56 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on June 30, 2020, 10:01:47 AM
I don't think the Americans care about it to be totally honest. I know a few fellas over there from my time and locking it down European style is laughed at.

Economy first, can't let the Chinese gobble up our ports on the cheap.

Tbf to the Americans, I don't think they don't have the same social security system we have over here so I'd say many people are largely on their own financially during lockdown. Any of the US based posters know what support your average Joe gets during lockdown? Or is it state dependent?

Its state-dependent, and varies wildly.

The feds have been topping it up with $600/week, but that is due to expire at the end of July, unless they renew it.

You don't get to stay on unemployment benefits forever either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 01, 2020, 06:15:31 PM
Good to see Ireland with one of the lowest numbers in Europe.

(https://metropole.at/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Corona-Warning-System-for-Europe_Complexitiy-Science-Hub-Vienna-875x1024.png)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 01, 2020, 07:10:39 PM
Sweden not great in that map, they'll not be going to the Med on holiday.

Meanwhile, almost 5000 cases in Arizona in one day, with 20% of tests proving positive.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 01, 2020, 07:23:25 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/01/travel-quarantine-uk-air-bridges-countries-latest-news/

Global tourism revenues are expected to fall by up to $3.3 trillion due to COVID-19 restrictions, with the United States standing to lose the most, according to a U.N. study published on Wednesday.

The 'COVID-19 and Tourism' report released by The United Nations Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD) is based on three scenarios for the industry, with lockdown measures lasting 4 months, 8 months and 12 months.

In those scenarios, revenues would fall $1.17 trillion, $2.22 trillion and $3.3 trillion respectively or between 1.5-4.2 percent of the world's gross domestic product (GDP).

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 01, 2020, 11:03:18 PM
Doesn't seem to be many cases with the GAA back
1 week back and no alarm bells at present
Good sign
Hopefully it continues that way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 01, 2020, 11:09:33 PM
This dose will show no symptoms for at least a week. We'll see the effects in a week or two.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on July 02, 2020, 06:56:09 AM
With Leicester on a local lockdown and talk about pillar 2 results, what is pillar 2
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 02, 2020, 09:37:28 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 01, 2020, 11:09:33 PM
This dose will show no symptoms for at least a week. We'll see the effects in a week or two.

The more important news is after Helens Bay carry on and the BLM protests (which may or may not have been distanced, from what I seen they were not...) there looks to be no spike. Very promising.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 02, 2020, 10:00:12 AM
At present I am not convinced it is particularly prevalent in the population to be spreading about even in mass groups. I think once travel etc opens up that is when the bigger danger is. That said it only takes one at one of these mass groupings and personally I will be steering clear of them...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 02, 2020, 10:12:51 AM
Day in day in America and the weekly average death toll is dropping at a quick pace
What is that telling us?
More cases week in week and deaths dropping?
Better understanding of the virus?
Younger people getting it?
Thoughts?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 02, 2020, 10:34:53 AM
High deaths are caused by hospitals getting overrun and nursing homes. Any place where they keep it out of nursing homes will have less deaths. And places in the southern US will benefit from experience in New England. However, the large increase in cases will mean many deaths for weeks to come.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 02, 2020, 10:38:59 AM
Out of interest, is anyone who has commented on this thread going off on holidays this summer?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 02, 2020, 11:04:29 AM
Not leaving the Country this year or going near trains, buses or planes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 02, 2020, 11:32:21 AM
I might go to scotland on the boat but get a cabin to avoid any masses though I doubt there'll be any,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 02, 2020, 11:39:13 AM
I'm off abroad in November for a week. I'm also heading down south for a weeks holidays in July.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on July 02, 2020, 11:58:49 AM
Considering a break to Canary Islands in October.

Wont be giving anything to the rip off hotels/restaurants/bars in tourist spots on this island mind you.

Day trips to zoo etc would be the height of it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 02, 2020, 12:16:22 PM
Due to be away on the 25th of July, Easy Jet changed the flight times yesterday but I really can't see it happening which would be great, not fussed TBH, we can cancel the Airb&b villa up to the last day if the flights are cancelled.

Was checking Airb&b's online last night and didn't notice a big hike on their prices

During this period I wouldn't be too fussed on staying in a hotel anyway, somewhere remote and with a national park or great beach (or both) for a dander with my dogs would be heaven
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 02, 2020, 01:32:49 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on July 02, 2020, 06:56:09 AM
With Leicester on a local lockdown and talk about pillar 2 results, what is pillar 2

https://onthewight.com/what-is-pillar-2-covid-19-testing-and-why-do-i-need-to-know-about-it/ (https://onthewight.com/what-is-pillar-2-covid-19-testing-and-why-do-i-need-to-know-about-it/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 02, 2020, 01:42:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 02, 2020, 11:04:29 AM
Not leaving the Country this year or going near trains, buses or planes.

Same if possible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 02, 2020, 01:53:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 02, 2020, 11:04:29 AM
Not leaving the Country this year or going near trains, buses or planes.

I'm a regular overseas traveler but I'll be staying put in this country for at least the rest of year. Have been on buses, trains very few passengers on board and pretty much everyone myself included was wearing a mask and that was before they became mandatory on public transport.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: maddog on July 02, 2020, 01:57:58 PM
Just got unofficially informed no return to office in 2020  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on July 02, 2020, 02:21:14 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 02, 2020, 01:32:49 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on July 02, 2020, 06:56:09 AM
With Leicester on a local lockdown and talk about pillar 2 results, what is pillar 2

https://onthewight.com/what-is-pillar-2-covid-19-testing-and-why-do-i-need-to-know-about-it/ (https://onthewight.com/what-is-pillar-2-covid-19-testing-and-why-do-i-need-to-know-about-it/)

And the pillar 2 tests were published for NI today as well. Up by 7, 5 pillar 2 ones.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 02, 2020, 02:48:04 PM
Leicester the first City in the uk to be kept on lockdown
No deaths in Leicester for 7 days rolling
What is it they want places to achieve?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 02, 2020, 02:51:31 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 02, 2020, 02:48:04 PM
Leicester the first City in the uk to be kept on lockdown
No deaths in Leicester for 7 days rolling
What is it they want places to achieve?

A reduction in new case that might spread beyond?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on July 02, 2020, 02:53:27 PM
Quote from: maddog on July 02, 2020, 01:57:58 PM
Just got unofficially informed no return to office in 2020  :o
What's your line of work? 

Earliest we're back in is September.  Heard some banks won't be in before 2021 too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: maddog on July 02, 2020, 02:59:42 PM
Quote from: Rois on July 02, 2020, 02:53:27 PM
Quote from: maddog on July 02, 2020, 01:57:58 PM
Just got unofficially informed no return to office in 2020  :o
What's your line of work? 

Earliest we're back in is September.  Heard some banks won't be in before 2021 too.

Just normal office set up for shipping/logistics company. They apparently are doing a study to look into the whole working from home thing. Do we need offices all over the world, what savings could be made etc. It wasn't up for debate before except in a few cases but now they have admitted it has run seamlessly using the tech available so the game has changed. All the indicators are that people are happier, more productive etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 02, 2020, 03:10:39 PM
Quote from: maddog on July 02, 2020, 02:59:42 PM
Quote from: Rois on July 02, 2020, 02:53:27 PM
Quote from: maddog on July 02, 2020, 01:57:58 PM
Just got unofficially informed no return to office in 2020  :o
What's your line of work? 

Earliest we're back in is September.  Heard some banks won't be in before 2021 too.

Just normal office set up for shipping/logistics company. They apparently are doing a study to look into the whole working from home thing. Do we need offices all over the world, what savings could be made etc. It wasn't up for debate before except in a few cases but now they have admitted it has run seamlessly using the tech available so the game has changed. All the indicators are that people are happier, more productive etc.

Was talking to a clients son yesterday who works in a council office, they are looking to change their set up also and maybe have employees in 2 days a week and work from home the rest of the time..

He's still been working from home since lockdown

Things are changing and if the productivity is the same and employees are in a happier frame of mind then its a winner
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 02, 2020, 03:20:31 PM
Before it we were talking about moving to a bigger office but now we're talking about moving to a smaller office. Can't see myself being in the office more than a few days a week maybe the rest of the year but we are definitely shut until september at least.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ardtole on July 02, 2020, 03:28:40 PM
My next door neighbours son works in finance, lives in Navan, and he was travelling to Galway twice a week for meetings. I presume his colleagues were travelling from other parts of the country too.

Now it is all done by zoom, said they will never meet collectively for meetings again. Absolute madness what they were doing in hindsight he reckoned.

My sister in law works in some finance position in Dublin as well,  her whole office is working from home for the rest of this year, apparently productivity is up and very few want to return full time to the office environment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 02, 2020, 03:42:15 PM
I'll be having most of the team back into the office in next few weeks. all within the guidelines, but I think we've been given the all clear now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 02, 2020, 03:54:18 PM
Quote from: ardtole on July 02, 2020, 03:28:40 PM
My next door neighbours son works in finance, lives in Navan, and he was travelling to Galway twice a week for meetings. I presume his colleagues were travelling from other parts of the country too.

Now it is all done by zoom, said they will never meet collectively for meetings again. Absolute madness what they were doing in hindsight he reckoned.

My sister in law works in some finance position in Dublin as well,  her whole office is working from home for the rest of this year, apparently productivity is up and very few want to return full time to the office environment.

Might bring house prices down in Dublin! If the job sector you are in means you can work from home then the need to move to Dublin or close to will become less of a problem for people, huge benefits for rural areas which would have lost a lot of people and players to the Big Smoke!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 02, 2020, 04:02:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 02, 2020, 03:54:18 PM
Quote from: ardtole on July 02, 2020, 03:28:40 PM
My next door neighbours son works in finance, lives in Navan, and he was travelling to Galway twice a week for meetings. I presume his colleagues were travelling from other parts of the country too.

Now it is all done by zoom, said they will never meet collectively for meetings again. Absolute madness what they were doing in hindsight he reckoned.

My sister in law works in some finance position in Dublin as well,  her whole office is working from home for the rest of this year, apparently productivity is up and very few want to return full time to the office environment.

Might bring house prices down in Dublin! If the job sector you are in means you can work from home then the need to move to Dublin or close to will become less of a problem for people, huge benefits for rural areas which would have lost a lot of people and players to the Big Smoke!

Commercial property is a cooked goose. Those developers will be hit hard. City centre office space and retail units, either on the high street of shopping centres are going to be worth nothing. Rent then mortgage defaults, other ventures those developers involved in defaulting as well, banks under pressure. A squeeze all around, job loses and then the dreaded 'R' word.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 02, 2020, 04:06:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 02, 2020, 03:54:18 PM
Quote from: ardtole on July 02, 2020, 03:28:40 PM
My next door neighbours son works in finance, lives in Navan, and he was travelling to Galway twice a week for meetings. I presume his colleagues were travelling from other parts of the country too.

Now it is all done by zoom, said they will never meet collectively for meetings again. Absolute madness what they were doing in hindsight he reckoned.

My sister in law works in some finance position in Dublin as well,  her whole office is working from home for the rest of this year, apparently productivity is up and very few want to return full time to the office environment.

Might bring house prices down in Dublin! If the job sector you are in means you can work from home then the need to move to Dublin or close to will become less of a problem for people, huge benefits for rural areas which would have lost a lot of people and players to the Big Smoke!

The Hudson Valley/Catskills area 100 miles north of NYC is currently seeing an explosion in demand for housing due to the amount of people who had been toying with the idea of leaving, finally deciding to go for it in the new post-COVID world. Houses selling instantly for cash based only on online listings.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/17/realestate/a-run-on-the-catskills.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/17/realestate/a-run-on-the-catskills.html)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 02, 2020, 04:27:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 02, 2020, 04:02:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 02, 2020, 03:54:18 PM
Quote from: ardtole on July 02, 2020, 03:28:40 PM
My next door neighbours son works in finance, lives in Navan, and he was travelling to Galway twice a week for meetings. I presume his colleagues were travelling from other parts of the country too.

Now it is all done by zoom, said they will never meet collectively for meetings again. Absolute madness what they were doing in hindsight he reckoned.

My sister in law works in some finance position in Dublin as well,  her whole office is working from home for the rest of this year, apparently productivity is up and very few want to return full time to the office environment.

Might bring house prices down in Dublin! If the job sector you are in means you can work from home then the need to move to Dublin or close to will become less of a problem for people, huge benefits for rural areas which would have lost a lot of people and players to the Big Smoke!

Commercial property is a cooked goose. Those developers will be hit hard. City centre office space and retail units, either on the high street of shopping centres are going to be worth nothing. Rent then mortgage defaults, other ventures those developers involved in defaulting as well, banks under pressure. A squeeze all around, job loses and then the dreaded 'R' word.

Was talking to a guy today whose company has just taken a 16 million pound lease on office space in London. Workers are refusing to go back in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 02, 2020, 04:29:11 PM
Massive end of month stats coming out of Florida regarding Covid 19

March
15k cases
765 deaths
4.8% fatality

April
22k cases
1500 deaths
6.7% fatality

May
23k cases
900 deaths
4% fatality

June
85k cases
360 deaths
0.4% fatality

WOW
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 02, 2020, 04:36:59 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 02, 2020, 04:29:11 PM
Massive end of month stats coming out of Florida regarding Covid 19

March
15k cases
765 deaths
4.8% fatality

April
22k cases
1500 deaths
6.7% fatality

May
23k cases
900 deaths
4% fatality

June
85k cases
360 deaths
0.4% fatality

WOW

Death rates are dropping WOW, that's because they know how to fight the virus better than they did at the start, this drug that USA has bought solely for themselves will combat people getting the virus.

And Trumps new policy of not testing anyone as it increases the rates seems to be working well also ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 02, 2020, 04:48:10 PM
So why do you continue to scaremonger?
6 weeks ago you had the place closed until a vaccine
Why move the goalposts?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 02, 2020, 05:36:12 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 02, 2020, 04:48:10 PM
So why do you continue to scaremonger?
6 weeks ago you had the place closed until a vaccine
Why move the goalposts?

You're making stuff up again, show me a post where I said close Everything till there's a vaccine? You need to stay off the glue
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 02, 2020, 05:51:11 PM
You were one of the crew that wanted all places kept closed.
So after moving into phase 3 almost 3 weeks ago the magical R Number in the north is down to between 0.3-0.8 the lowest yet.
What do you put that down to milltown?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 02, 2020, 05:59:34 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 02, 2020, 05:51:11 PM
You were one of the crew that wanted all places kept closed.
So after moving into phase 3 almost 3 weeks ago the magical R Number in the north is down to between 0.3-0.8 the lowest yet.
What do you put that down to milltown?

Far be it from me to speak for Miltown, but that is pure luck.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 02, 2020, 06:04:46 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 02, 2020, 04:29:11 PM
Massive end of month stats coming out of Florida regarding Covid 19

March
15k cases
765 deaths
4.8% fatality

April
22k cases
1500 deaths
6.7% fatality

May
23k cases
900 deaths
4% fatality

June
85k cases
360 deaths
0.4% fatality

WOW

f**k me.  :o

You are aware people have to become infected and develop a disease before they can die and suffer severe effects from it, right?

Those 85 thousand cases from June are yet to run their course. Let's see where the death count stands in a month or six weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 02, 2020, 06:22:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 02, 2020, 06:04:46 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 02, 2020, 04:29:11 PM
Massive end of month stats coming out of Florida regarding Covid 19

March
15k cases
765 deaths
4.8% fatality

April
22k cases
1500 deaths
6.7% fatality

May
23k cases
900 deaths
4% fatality

June
85k cases
360 deaths
0.4% fatality

WOW

f**k me.  :o

You are aware people have to become infected and develop a disease before they can die and suffer severe effects from it, right?

Those 85 thousand cases from June are yet to run their course. Let's see where the death count stands in a month or six weeks.

and over 10,000 yesterday. Those sort of daily numbers will put hospitals under pressure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 02, 2020, 06:40:58 PM
A lot of icus creaking in the states by all accounts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 02, 2020, 06:46:44 PM
Was talking  to a chap who got it in May.
Didn't require hospitalisation.
He is suffering since with fatigue and gets breathless very easily.
He generally feels poorly these days.
That from a relatively mild dose.
Now if you had a tube stuck down into your lungs and you in an induced coma for maybe 3 weeks....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 02, 2020, 06:51:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 02, 2020, 05:36:12 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 02, 2020, 04:48:10 PM
So why do you continue to scaremonger?
6 weeks ago you had the place closed until a vaccine
Why move the goalposts?

You're making stuff up again, show me a post where I said close Everything till there's a vaccine? You need to stay off the glue

:D

(https://waitingfornext-a.akamaihd.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/lloyd.jpg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 02, 2020, 07:12:21 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 02, 2020, 06:51:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 02, 2020, 05:36:12 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 02, 2020, 04:48:10 PM
So why do you continue to scaremonger?
6 weeks ago you had the place closed until a vaccine
Why move the goalposts?

You're making stuff up again, show me a post where I said close Everything till there's a vaccine? You need to stay off the glue

:D

(https://waitingfornext-a.akamaihd.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/lloyd.jpg)

;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 02, 2020, 08:11:09 PM
I see Dr  Holohan is going to take extended break with the sad news that his wife is battling cancer, best wishes to her.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 02, 2020, 08:15:06 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 02, 2020, 05:51:11 PM
You were one of the crew that wanted all places kept closed.
So after moving into phase 3 almost 3 weeks ago the magical R Number in the north is down to between 0.3-0.8 the lowest yet.
What do you put that down to milltown?

So you don't have a post that I said close it all down till there is a vaccine? Right ok.

Now have you anymore manure to spout?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 02, 2020, 08:27:21 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 02, 2020, 08:11:09 PM
I see Dr  Holohan is going to take extended break with the sad news that his wife is battling cancer, best wishes to her.
I believe she's going to palliative care.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 02, 2020, 10:39:12 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 02, 2020, 08:49:23 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 02, 2020, 03:42:15 PM
I'll be having most of the team back into the office in next few weeks. all within the guidelines, but I think we've been given the all clear now.
Jaysus, what's keeping yis? Lazy shites.

We've been working from home, a concept completely alien to the teaching community I'll grant you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 02, 2020, 10:40:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 02, 2020, 10:39:12 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 02, 2020, 08:49:23 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 02, 2020, 03:42:15 PM
I'll be having most of the team back into the office in next few weeks. all within the guidelines, but I think we've been given the all clear now.
Jaysus, what's keeping yis? Lazy shites.

We've been working from home, a concept completely alien to the teaching community I'll grant you.

Wife never stopped, so you're full of shit, TBF  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 02, 2020, 10:52:19 PM
Must be the only teacher doing a bit
That's them all off now on holidays?
She will be glad of the break will she?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 02, 2020, 10:54:48 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 02, 2020, 10:52:19 PM
Must be the only teacher doing a bit
That's them all off now on holidays?
She will be glad of the break will she?

Well after spending that bonus she earned she can put her feet up till the 24th
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 03, 2020, 09:37:04 AM
Massive day in the Covid fight. Pubs Restaurants bookmakers etc reopen. This is the test. This is the biggest test we face yet. Let's keep our distance folks along with the hand washing. We can beat this. This next 10 days will tell us a lot with the new cases. We can do it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 03, 2020, 09:45:11 AM
Why keep the distance? Sure were you not saying get the children back in school and forget about the 1 meter distance? Get them all into the pubs. If people won't willingly go, enforce it. Fill them. Get lock in's back. We can do it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on July 03, 2020, 09:49:23 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 03, 2020, 09:37:04 AM
Massive day in the Covid fight. Pubs Restaurants bookmakers etc reopen. This is the test. This is the biggest test we face yet. Let's keep our distance folks along with the hand washing. We can beat this. This next 10 days will tell us a lot with the new cases. We can do it

I'd say open the pubs up full tilt, but everyone going in has to sign a DNR or the likes to say that if they get Corona virus and require hospital treatment then it's denied to them.

take responsibility for your own actions and own the outcomes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 03, 2020, 10:00:55 AM
I am saying no social distancing in school to get our kids back to school. Scotland this morning have eliminated all social distance for all under 12s. Grow up trueblue trying to get a few hits on this page just grow up. Pathetic
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 03, 2020, 10:03:47 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 03, 2020, 10:00:55 AM
I am saying no social distancing in school to get our kids back to school. Scotland this morning have eliminated all social distance for all under 12s. Grow up trueblue trying to get a few hits on this page just grow up. Pathetic

Touchy. I'm just trying to follow your logic lines. I'll be honest, I'm struggling slightly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 03, 2020, 10:20:45 AM
If you manage to follow Smurfy's logic then please explain it to the rest of us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on July 03, 2020, 09:58:46 PM
So a considerable number of people who died of Covid,didn't actually die of Covid. Can't say I'm surprised, sure will we vaccinate everybody anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 03, 2020, 10:26:54 PM
A certain number of people died with Covid who may have been very ill. That this number is in any way high is simply a reflection of the extent of infection in nursing homes.The vast majority of people who died did so because of Covid and would otherwise be alive today.
Yes they should vaccinate everyone, that will eliminate the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 03, 2020, 11:36:18 PM
Rudi is a tin foil hat merchant ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 04, 2020, 08:31:29 AM
The death toll from it isn't really accurate. You could argue it skews results either way. Any which way without it there would have been considerably less deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 04, 2020, 08:52:48 AM
I really can't believe English bars were allowed to open from 0600 this morning. I'm not anti English, but Christ they make it hard.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 04, 2020, 09:27:24 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 04, 2020, 08:52:48 AM
I really can't believe English bars were allowed to open from 0600 this morning. I'm not anti English, but Christ they make it hard.

Think I read somewhere that it's to stop the bars with a 24 hr license to not open at midnight? 6 am is still a bizarre time though. Read a good tweet yesterday saying that if your Qing to get into a bar at 6 then your problems are greater than Covid-19.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on July 04, 2020, 10:42:51 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 03, 2020, 11:36:18 PM
Rudi is a tin foil hat merchant ;)

Rosfan is a manchurian candidate, easily programmed and of no substance. No mention of Karen these days?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 04, 2020, 12:20:33 PM
The Swiss R number now is 2. Govt telling people to avoid bars and clubs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on July 04, 2020, 01:01:15 PM
Quote from: Rudi on July 04, 2020, 10:42:51 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 03, 2020, 11:36:18 PM
Rudi is a tin foil hat merchant ;)

Rosfan is a manchurian candidate, easily programmed and of no substance. No mention of Karen these days?

well played rudi.. i am enjoying the Karen free posts the last few weeks... he was in overdrive there for while..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 04, 2020, 02:01:58 PM
Ye 2 Covid deniers have taken Karen's place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on July 04, 2020, 02:16:04 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2020, 08:31:29 AM
The death toll from it isn't really accurate. You could argue it skews results either way. Any which way without it there would have been considerably less deaths.

Ireland or worldwide? Former certainly as every probable death was included. The latter I'm not so sure as many countries only counted hospital deaths, USA, Brazil, China for example have far more than they are publishing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on July 04, 2020, 03:42:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 04, 2020, 02:01:58 PM
Ye 2 Covid deniers have taken Karen's place.

i assume that should be yes rather than 'ye'...  I am no Covid denier..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 04, 2020, 06:36:50 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 04, 2020, 02:16:04 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2020, 08:31:29 AM
The death toll from it isn't really accurate. You could argue it skews results either way. Any which way without it there would have been considerably less deaths.

Ireland or worldwide? Former certainly as every probable death was included. The latter I'm not so sure as many countries only counted hospital deaths, USA, Brazil, China for example have far more than they are publishing

Anywhere. I think some places have far more and some places have less. To be fair I think it's a hard thing to be fully accurate on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on July 04, 2020, 06:42:00 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2020, 06:36:50 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 04, 2020, 02:16:04 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2020, 08:31:29 AM
The death toll from it isn't really accurate. You could argue it skews results either way. Any which way without it there would have been considerably less deaths.

Ireland or worldwide? Former certainly as every probable death was included. The latter I'm not so sure as many countries only counted hospital deaths, USA, Brazil, China for example have far more than they are publishing

Anywhere. I think some places have far more and some places have less. To be fair I think it's a hard thing to be fully accurate on.
Agreed. Some have died and are buried and probably never got tested for the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on July 04, 2020, 06:43:48 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2020, 06:36:50 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 04, 2020, 02:16:04 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2020, 08:31:29 AM
The death toll from it isn't really accurate. You could argue it skews results either way. Any which way without it there would have been considerably less deaths.

Ireland or worldwide? Former certainly as every probable death was included. The latter I'm not so sure as many countries only counted hospital deaths, USA, Brazil, China for example have far more than they are publishing

Anywhere. I think some places have far more and some places have less. To be fair I think it's a hard thing to be fully accurate on.
Lots of the "numbers people" on Twitter etc. are using excess mortality as an indicator of Covid deaths,and it predominantly points to a significantly higher number than those issued by the government.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 04, 2020, 10:29:42 PM
Apparently epo, one of Lance armstong's favourites, has had some success in helping more severe cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 04, 2020, 11:55:22 PM
See the video of people on Dame Street on Twitter. Hope none of them have it because it's a disgrace imo.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 05, 2020, 08:35:54 AM
How's it a disgrace? If it was a street in say Vienna people would be talking about what a great scene people outside enjoying a drink. It was crowded from the video but we didn't see any drunking messes. Thoughts
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on July 05, 2020, 03:18:34 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 04, 2020, 11:55:22 PM
See the video of people on Dame Street on Twitter. Hope none of them have it because it's a disgrace imo.

The carefree attitude was disappointing viewing. No problem going out for a quiet pint or meal but personally i wouldn't go near crowded places like that and I'd wonder how long was it before the Garda arrived and restored some sort of order and social distancing?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 05, 2020, 03:22:35 PM
The death total seems to have been artificially inflated from what I've heard. A lot of ppl down as dying from Covid when they had a terminal illness. Why?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on July 05, 2020, 03:26:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 05, 2020, 03:22:35 PM
The death total seems to have been artificially inflated from what I've heard. A lot of ppl down as dying from Covid when they had a terminal illness. Why?
Probably because they actually died from Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on July 05, 2020, 04:06:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 05, 2020, 03:26:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 05, 2020, 03:22:35 PM
The death total seems to have been artificially inflated from what I've heard. A lot of ppl down as dying from Covid when they had a terminal illness. Why?
Probably because they actually died from Covid.
In Ireland we counted all deaths, in all settings, suspected cases even when no lab test was done, and included people with underlying terminal illnesses who died with Covid but not of it.

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1278995351169613824
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on July 05, 2020, 04:38:50 PM
Looking forward to seeing Sid's next move.

Retraction is unlikely, it's just not in his character. Rubbishing the source is a possibility, and would be the usual response, but as Leo can't gain anything from this admission, there are few angles to take there. The most likely strategy will be to ignore it and pretend it didn't happen. Someone somewhere needs to ba called a a fascist, and that will keep him busy instead. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 05, 2020, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 05, 2020, 03:26:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 05, 2020, 03:22:35 PM
The death total seems to have been artificially inflated from what I've heard. A lot of ppl down as dying from Covid when they had a terminal illness. Why?
Probably because they actually died from Covid.

Died from and died with, are two very different things. And in time to come we should see a great distinction between the two.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 05, 2020, 04:55:03 PM
The Covid deniers are all excited because a statistic of the number of deaths has been amended.

How sad is that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on July 05, 2020, 05:33:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 05, 2020, 04:55:03 PM
The Covid deniers are all excited because a statistic of the number of deaths has been amended.

How sad is that?

There's no excitement here. I've been sceptical about numbers since the start of the virus, and remain sceptical no matter which direction they take. Others might be determined to use/abuse numbers to their advantage, but not my style.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 05, 2020, 05:36:24 PM
I don't deny Covid. But it has completely overhyped beyond belief.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 05, 2020, 05:46:51 PM
Try telling that to someone who spent 2 or 3 weeks on a ventilator in an induced coma and who is suffering ongoing blood clots, fatigue etc since they recovered and got home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 05, 2020, 05:47:22 PM
It's been known for months that ROI followed the WHO's guidelines and included every possible death many other countries didn't do that and it made Ireland look worse on the death tables that some lads were running on social media.

Another week over.

Deaths 11 (half the amount of deaths compared to last week)
Cases 91 from 35,252 tests the last 7 days

Hopefully the scenes such as Dame Street last night doesn't bring a spike in cases next week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 05, 2020, 07:08:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 05, 2020, 05:46:51 PM
Try telling that to someone who spent 2 or 3 weeks on a ventilator in an induced coma and who is suffering ongoing blood clots, fatigue etc since they recovered and got home.

Yawn
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 05, 2020, 07:19:47 PM
Ross coming out with that line
Very predictable
Try telling that too zzzzzz
Try telling the lockdown wasn't needed to the young and healthy who have now lost jobs businesses lives and much more
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on July 05, 2020, 07:26:27 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 05, 2020, 07:08:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 05, 2020, 05:46:51 PM
Try telling that to someone who spent 2 or 3 weeks on a ventilator in an induced coma and who is suffering ongoing blood clots, fatigue etc since they recovered and got home.

Yawn

It is a rather tedious response. While every death is regrettable, sadly it is the only guaranteed outcome from living. Mother nature  and random chance spent millenia finding ways to kill us off before our time, and almost every advance in technology has increased our potential for an early ending.

Covid 19, as things stands, is another string to death's bow. It is real and it's clearly an absolute bastard if you have a weak respiratory system. But it is also extremely inefficient at killing the majority of people it infects.

Pointing this out should not see me described as a Covid denier. It clearly exists. But its context is just not a severe as initially claimed, not even close.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on July 05, 2020, 08:18:53 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 05, 2020, 07:19:47 PM
Ross coming out with that line
Very predictable
Try telling that too zzzzzz
Try telling the lockdown wasn't needed to the young and healthy who have now lost jobs businesses lives and much more

A family member is a doctor and works with covid patients (also had covid), i relayed some of your posts to her and whats she thinks of you i couldn't post on here, put mildly she shares none of your opinions.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 05, 2020, 09:05:59 PM
My thoughts that I said I didn't think it was as bad a virus that many were making out ?
Saying that they should have ring fenced all care homes
Saying that all the elderly and vulnerable with underlying issues should have shielded
Saying that school kids should have went back in late May to get 6 weeks before the schools closed for the summer
Sayin that the teachers union were very negative when Swann came out and said he wanted all kids back in September? I said that schools needed to work things and be positive after that statement
Saying that Swann was so badly off with his prediction of 15000 deaths
Now you tell me what is so wrong with my opinions. Opinions
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on July 05, 2020, 09:37:25 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 05, 2020, 09:05:59 PM
My thoughts that I said I didn't think it was as bad a virus that many were making out ?
Saying that they should have ring fenced all care homes
Saying that all the elderly and vulnerable with underlying issues should have shielded
Saying that school kids should have went back in late May to get 6 weeks before the schools closed for the summer
Sayin that the teachers union were very negative when Swann came out and said he wanted all kids back in September? I said that schools needed to work things and be positive after that statement
Saying that Swann was so badly off with his prediction of 15000 deaths
Now you tell me what is so wrong with my opinions. Opinions

you seem to fail to understand modelling and how it works... i dont know many other viruses that have been worst. you seem to fail to understand how the preventative measures taken worked. You didnt appear to understand the difference between someone saying there was an increased potential of something happening and something actually happening. i.e. lack of social distancing = increased chance of covid in a couple of weeks.. if no increase in cases then the person making the prediction doesnt know what they were talking about.

I dont think many, if anyone on here was arguing against protecting vulnerable people.

if schools were open, the possibilty of covid spreading increases (transport staff, transport staff familes, childcare, teachers, teachers spouses, colleagues of people who work with  teachers spouses and so on) and the chances of protecting vulnerable people reduces, hospitals are under more pressure and more people die.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2020, 10:02:15 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 05, 2020, 09:05:59 PM
My thoughts that I said I didn't think it was as bad a virus that many were making out ?
Saying that they should have ring fenced all care homes
Saying that all the elderly and vulnerable with underlying issues should have shielded
Saying that school kids should have went back in late May to get 6 weeks before the schools closed for the summer
Sayin that the teachers union were very negative when Swann came out and said he wanted all kids back in September? I said that schools needed to work things and be positive after that statement
Saying that Swann was so badly off with his prediction of 15000 deaths
Now you tell me what is so wrong with my opinions. Opinions

You knew all this and didn't tell WHO?

Smurphy, king of hindsight  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 05, 2020, 10:36:43 PM
So what is the issue with my comments on here that your relative doctor doesn't agree with?
The reopening of schools? Denmark reopened on April 14 with no affects. None. Zilch Zero
Sweden didn't lockdown and they are declining like everywhere else. Sweden had a total of 755 confirmed cases a day last week with 4 needing hospital treatment.
I said we were told that lockdown was to slow the curve no stop it. Does your relative doctor want no cases? What have I said that is my own opinion that would annoy this doctor? I don't get it
Hindsight you say? Hindsight?
No the fact that most European countries were about 4 weeks ahead of us so I seen what was happening. No hindsight it was happening in front of us
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on July 05, 2020, 10:39:12 PM
Reports coming out of Texas that the virus is evolving to improve its transmission.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/amp/coronavirus-evidence-growing-houston-strain-mutant-15386157.php

Spanish flu second wave was the deadly one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 05, 2020, 10:48:56 PM
Sweden is no example to anyone, their cases are increasing.
Coronavirus do not change as quickly as flu, but this may be moving towards easier to transmit but less deadly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 05, 2020, 10:53:31 PM
And finally my point proven. Sweden's cases going up. Deaths down to single digits and 5 hospitalised on average of 1000 people catching it
So why didn't we send kids back to school even though this was known 6 weeks ago.
Look around lads
Take of the masks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on July 05, 2020, 11:02:08 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 05, 2020, 10:36:43 PM
So what is the issue with my comments on here that your relative doctor doesn't agree with?
The reopening of schools? Denmark reopened on April 14 with no affects. None. Zilch Zero
Sweden didn't lockdown and they are declining like everywhere else. Sweden had a total of 755 confirmed cases a day last week with 4 needing hospital treatment.
I said we were told that lockdown was to slow the curve no stop it. Does your relative doctor want no cases? What have I said that is my own opinion that would annoy this doctor? I don't get it
Hindsight you say? Hindsight?
No the fact that most European countries were about 4 weeks ahead of us so I seen what was happening. No hindsight it was happening in front of us

pretty much everything i showed them.... its an old persons disease particularly, your inability to understand what i posted above..

i am not getting into this country and that country because depending on the different measures and timing of those measure etc. and social adherence etc. it differs.

yes, my relative wants zero cases i assume everyone wants that. i and i assume they dont know when the optimal time to open up everything again was/is but over the last few months when covid was much more prevalent i anyway disagreed with your opinions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 05, 2020, 11:13:18 PM
And does it not effects  the elderly more than anyone?
What part of that but didn't they like? I say it as I see it. The facts show that it effects the elderly more than anyone else
Do what do you and your doctor relative say about 2009/10 where we had more influenza deaths in that year up to July than this year?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on July 05, 2020, 11:27:06 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 05, 2020, 11:13:18 PM
And does it not effects  the elderly more than anyone?
What part of that but didn't they like? I say it as I see it. The facts show that it effects the elderly more than anyone else
Do what do you and your doctor relative say about 2009/10 where we had more influenza deaths in that year up to July than this year?

I dont know what my relative has to say about that. I dont remember 3 months of wordwide preventative measures in 2009/10...

everyone can get it... older people are more at risk of dying if they get it. i knew a 32/33 yr old who passed away in early April from Covid who only 2 weeks previous was looking forward to a session on st patricks day.  Cancer is not called an old person disease it doesnt discriminate on age either but older people are more likely to get it. most things effect the elderly more...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 05, 2020, 11:39:12 PM
That's my point it didn't lockdown in 2009/10
Why not?
Median age for cancer is 61 hardly old.
Still don't know what exactly your doctor relative doesn't agree with what I have said?
You said about it only effects the old i said it's a virus that generally does effect the elderly
What does the doctor relative but agree with? What am I missing here? Does it effect younger people more?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2020, 11:54:10 PM
Smurphy is Covid dangerous? Can it kill? Will it continue to kill older people? Do children contract it and able to pass it on to others? Do you not care about old people? Will teachers get a better pay rise next year due to the hardship they've been Through these past few months? Did less people die because of lockdown? Are you a funeral director wanting all restrictions lifted?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on July 06, 2020, 12:06:50 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 05, 2020, 11:39:12 PM
That's my point it didn't lockdown in 2009/10
Why not?
Median age for cancer is 61 hardly old.
Still don't know what exactly your doctor relative doesn't agree with what I have said?
You said about it only effects the old i said it's a virus that generally does effect the elderly
What does the doctor relative but agree with? What am I missing here? Does it effect younger people more?

not for the first time you are missing everything...you can read the posts again slowly...

firstly my relative disagreed with you downplaying covid. secondly, that your statements that it is an old person disease which is different to it effects the elderly worst. id imagine the comparsion to the flu if she'd read that.

i never said it only effected the elderly. you did. it does not discrimate based on age. everyone can get it. once you have it, you can spread it  to others. if you are older the effects are worst and you are morely likely to die. this is the same with cancer (example) but it is not referred to as an old person disease.

also you have changed what you said previously. you previously said it was an old people disease to now it a virus thay does generally effect the elderly. anyone can get it, if you are elderly and get it, you are more likely to die than and younger person. i believe this is probably true of most serious illnesses.

This is not the best use of my time... i hope you take care and take evey precaution to prevent the spread of covid because IMO its people with attitudes like yours that have potential to cause unnecessary damage.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 06, 2020, 12:11:00 AM
Show me where I said it was only an old people disease?
Look at the fatality rate. I'm not playing it down I am saying it's not as deadly as people made it out? That's stating facts
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on July 06, 2020, 12:22:45 AM
i might go back tomorrow to find it.

you dont understand when someone provides a model or an estimate etc. that if the figure is not hit its not as deadly as people make out or understand that the measures taken have prevent death..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on July 06, 2020, 12:36:54 AM
Lads, smurfy is playing a blinder here trolling ye for all ye're worth. Cop on ffs  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 06, 2020, 10:13:32 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on July 05, 2020, 10:39:12 PM
Reports coming out of Texas that the virus is evolving to improve its transmission.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/amp/coronavirus-evidence-growing-houston-strain-mutant-15386157.php

Spanish flu second wave was the deadly one.

I'd take anything from Texas with a pinch of salt, I would imagine the most unhealthy of all the US States, certainly of what I've personally seen. Covid is rife for a state like that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 06, 2020, 12:37:11 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 06, 2020, 12:11:00 AM
Show me where I said it was only an old people disease?
Look at the fatality rate. I'm not playing it down I am saying it's not as deadly as people made it out? That's stating facts
The UK Government wanted to free up space in NHS hospitals in March.
Thousands of older patients were moved into care homes without being tested.
29,000 died.

With the right conditions in meat factories, care homes and shanty towns, Covid is lethal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 06, 2020, 01:12:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 06, 2020, 12:37:11 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 06, 2020, 12:11:00 AM
Show me where I said it was only an old people disease?
Look at the fatality rate. I'm not playing it down I am saying it's not as deadly as people made it out? That's stating facts
The UK Government wanted to free up space in NHS hospitals in March.
Thousands of older patients were moved into care homes without being tested.
29,000 died.

With the right conditions in meat factories, care homes and shanty towns, Covid is lethal.

One of the reasons they did that was because the whole thing was blown out of proportion by the WHO and others. They got it wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
The WHO should come out and hold its hands up and take responsibility for the death toll. Their information and guidance right from the get go has been deeply flawed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on July 06, 2020, 01:23:43 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 05, 2020, 08:24:33 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on July 05, 2020, 08:18:53 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 05, 2020, 07:19:47 PM
Ross coming out with that line
Very predictable
Try telling that too zzzzzz
Try telling the lockdown wasn't needed to the young and healthy who have now lost jobs businesses lives and much more

A family member is a doctor and works with covid patients (also had covid), i relayed some of your posts to her and whats she thinks of you i couldn't post on here, put mildly she shares none of your opinions.
To be fair, she'd only be marginally more informed than Ashley Cole on this matter.

Other doctors are advising today through the Telegraph that there could be an additional 35k cancer deaths this year in the UK, due to missed and cancelled tests during Corona.

Personally I don't think any group should have a platform to promote their wild, panic inducing theories  until there is genuine evidence to back up their numbers. It's scaremongering and it's shit.

But let's assume for a few seconds that they're even half right. How do the "close everything down, and keep it closed" wing of Covid analysts feel about this? There was always going to be a medical trade off for the measures taken to control Covid. Given that these people feel completely justified to condemn the actions of any individual who doesn't follow rigid guidelines, would someone who finds out today that they've had cancer spreading for the past 3 months, be within their rights to condemn these people back?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 06, 2020, 01:23:51 PM
Yes, the WHO should have gone into the future, looked back on things and come up with advice, and then go back in time to tell us all what to do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 06, 2020, 01:25:50 PM
Why should they take responsibility for the death toll? Ridiculous statement.

Yes they could have done better.

However again your point ignores the fact that but for lockdown this would have been way worse. So yes it hasn't been as bad as predicted but the world has been half shut and it isn't over yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 06, 2020, 01:29:40 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 06, 2020, 01:23:43 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 05, 2020, 08:24:33 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on July 05, 2020, 08:18:53 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 05, 2020, 07:19:47 PM
Ross coming out with that line
Very predictable
Try telling that too zzzzzz
Try telling the lockdown wasn't needed to the young and healthy who have now lost jobs businesses lives and much more

A family member is a doctor and works with covid patients (also had covid), i relayed some of your posts to her and whats she thinks of you i couldn't post on here, put mildly she shares none of your opinions.
To be fair, she'd only be marginally more informed than Ashley Cole on this matter.

Other doctors are advising today through the Telegraph that there could be an additional 35k cancer deaths this year in the UK, due to missed and cancelled tests during Corona.

Personally I don't think any group should have a platform to promote their wild, panic inducing theories  until there is genuine evidence to back up their numbers. It's scaremongering and it's shit.

But let's assume for a few seconds that they're even half right. How do the "close everything down, and keep it closed" wing of Covid analysts feel about this? There was always going to be a medical trade off for the measures taken to control Covid. Given that these people feel completely justified to condemn the actions of any individual who doesn't follow rigid guidelines, would someone who finds out today that they've had cancer spreading for the past 3 months, be within their rights to condemn these people back?

Some people wouldn't be happy unless everything was closed for an eternity, everyone had lost their job and we were all eating wild berries and drinking our own urine.
Lockdown Fascists.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 06, 2020, 01:30:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 06, 2020, 01:23:51 PM
Yes, the WHO should have gone into the future, looked back on things and come up with advice, and then go back in time to tell us all what to do.

All they should've done is tell the truth, not make shit up on the fly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 06, 2020, 01:44:15 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 06, 2020, 01:25:50 PM
Why should they take responsibility for the death toll? Ridiculous statement.

Yes they could have done better.

However again your point ignores the fact that but for lockdown this would have been way worse. So yes it hasn't been as bad as predicted but the world has been half shut and it isn't over yet.

How do you know this? The lockdown in Spain was very different from UK. The lockdown in Monaghan was very different from Tyrone.
Covid is a serious disease but it disproportionately affects the over 70s and those with underlying health conditions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 06, 2020, 01:54:35 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 06, 2020, 01:23:43 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 05, 2020, 08:24:33 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on July 05, 2020, 08:18:53 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 05, 2020, 07:19:47 PM
Ross coming out with that line
Very predictable
Try telling that too zzzzzz
Try telling the lockdown wasn't needed to the young and healthy who have now lost jobs businesses lives and much more

A family member is a doctor and works with covid patients (also had covid), i relayed some of your posts to her and whats she thinks of you i couldn't post on here, put mildly she shares none of your opinions.
To be fair, she'd only be marginally more informed than Ashley Cole on this matter.

Other doctors are advising today through the Telegraph that there could be an additional 35k cancer deaths this year in the UK, due to missed and cancelled tests during Corona.

Personally I don't think any group should have a platform to promote their wild, panic inducing theories  until there is genuine evidence to back up their numbers. It's scaremongering and it's shit.

But let's assume for a few seconds that they're even half right. How do the "close everything down, and keep it closed" wing of Covid analysts feel about this? There was always going to be a medical trade off for the measures taken to control Covid. Given that these people feel completely justified to condemn the actions of any individual who doesn't follow rigid guidelines, would someone who finds out today that they've had cancer spreading for the past 3 months, be within their rights to condemn these people back?

The reason the medical system initially shutting down was due to the medical system in northern Italy getting completely overwhelmed in late February/early March.

Just what do you think should have been the response with a novel virus that was spreading like wildfire and had no treatments in those early days?

Ignore Italy? And after that the situation in the hospitals in New York City where the bodies were being piled up in freezer trailers?

Its very easy to sit and point when you've no responsibility.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 06, 2020, 01:55:14 PM
Trailer it can have  pretty serious effects on younger people too. Even younger people.It's not just deaths. Just read that thread on deaths and the 41 year old actor.

How do I know lockdown helping things? No one can say this with 100% certainty but no one can prove the opposite either. It's cases were growing exponentially and then they weren't when the period of "grace" was over. Finer grained details of lockdown don't really matter - life as anyone in Tyrone or monaghan and Spain changed dramatically and the amount of contact with other people was dramatically reduced . Do you really think lockdown didn't help things?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 06, 2020, 02:00:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 06, 2020, 01:55:14 PM
Trailer it can have  pretty serious effects on younger people too. Even younger people.It's not just deaths. Just read that thread on deaths and the 41 year old actor.

How do I know lockdown helping things? No one can say this with 100% certainty but no one can prove the opposite either. It's cases were growing exponentially and then they weren't when the period of "grace" was over. Finer grained details of lockdown don't really matter - life as anyone in Tyrone or monaghan and Spain changed dramatically and the amount of contact with other people was dramatically reduced . Do you really think lockdown didn't help things?

Of course locking down helped.

New York state was hitting 800 deaths per day a couple of weeks after they initiated the lockdown. Once the measures caught up with the disease, the death rate decreased dramatically as fewer people were getting infected and hospitals were able to get a grip on the outbreak. We've plateaued at a low death rate now as things have partially opened up, but much of the rest of the US is now paying the price for mask-wearing and shutdowns being politicized and people in those places saying "f**k you" to the measures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 06, 2020, 02:04:13 PM
Exactly. The stats should speak for themselves. What the numbers would be without lockdown who knows but I highly doubt they would be in a place like where we are now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on July 06, 2020, 02:39:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 06, 2020, 02:00:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 06, 2020, 01:55:14 PM
Trailer it can have  pretty serious effects on younger people too. Even younger people.It's not just deaths. Just read that thread on deaths and the 41 year old actor.

How do I know lockdown helping things? No one can say this with 100% certainty but no one can prove the opposite either. It's cases were growing exponentially and then they weren't when the period of "grace" was over. Finer grained details of lockdown don't really matter - life as anyone in Tyrone or monaghan and Spain changed dramatically and the amount of contact with other people was dramatically reduced . Do you really think lockdown didn't help things?

Of course locking down helped.

New York state was hitting 800 deaths per day a couple of weeks after they initiated the lockdown. Once the measures caught up with the disease, the death rate decreased dramatically as fewer people were getting infected and hospitals were able to get a grip on the outbreak. We've plateaued at a low death rate now as things have partially opened up, but much of the rest of the US is now paying the price for mask-wearing and shutdowns being politicized and people in those places saying "f**k you" to the measures.
the USA had lowest Sunday deaths yesterday since March 28th so not all bad news .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on July 06, 2020, 02:47:05 PM
The stats don't speak for themselves though.

I was reading on this board some debate on David De Gea so I googled to see what his overall numbers for the season are as opposed to anecdotal remembering of 1 or 2 mistakes and the very first article I clicked on was below.  It has Allison in bottom place and if you go purely on this statistic Allison is the worst keeper in the league.

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/saves?po=GOALKEEPER

This is the sort of 1 number without context information we are getting on covid.  To give the numbers more meaning they at a minimum should be broken down by age range, with or from, healthy/underlying health condition/terminal illness, lab test diagnosis or suspected.  Without any breakdown the statistics we are being given are only slightly above meaningless.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 06, 2020, 03:07:01 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 06, 2020, 02:39:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 06, 2020, 02:00:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 06, 2020, 01:55:14 PM
Trailer it can have  pretty serious effects on younger people too. Even younger people.It's not just deaths. Just read that thread on deaths and the 41 year old actor.

How do I know lockdown helping things? No one can say this with 100% certainty but no one can prove the opposite either. It's cases were growing exponentially and then they weren't when the period of "grace" was over. Finer grained details of lockdown don't really matter - life as anyone in Tyrone or monaghan and Spain changed dramatically and the amount of contact with other people was dramatically reduced . Do you really think lockdown didn't help things?

Of course locking down helped.

New York state was hitting 800 deaths per day a couple of weeks after they initiated the lockdown. Once the measures caught up with the disease, the death rate decreased dramatically as fewer people were getting infected and hospitals were able to get a grip on the outbreak. We've plateaued at a low death rate now as things have partially opened up, but much of the rest of the US is now paying the price for mask-wearing and shutdowns being politicized and people in those places saying "f**k you" to the measures.
the USA had lowest Sunday deaths yesterday since March 28th so not all bad news .

Good.

Let's hope the recent upsurge in cases and hospitalizations doesn't result in an increase in deaths and serious health effects over the coming weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on July 06, 2020, 03:16:36 PM
We require a Jonah Hill type character (moneyball) to crunch the numbers behind the coronavirus, if he's not available the guy who wrote Freakeconomics might do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 06, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on July 06, 2020, 02:47:05 PM
The stats don't speak for themselves though.

I was reading on this board some debate on David De Gea so I googled to see what his overall numbers for the season are as opposed to anecdotal remembering of 1 or 2 mistakes and the very first article I clicked on was below.  It has Allison in bottom place and if you go purely on this statistic Allison is the worst keeper in the league.

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/saves?po=GOALKEEPER

This is the sort of 1 number without context information we are getting on covid.  To give the numbers more meaning they at a minimum should be broken down by age range, with or from, healthy/underlying health condition/terminal illness, lab test diagnosis or suspected.  Without any breakdown the statistics we are being given are only slightly above meaningless.

The stats are pretty clear in New York City and the surrounding areas.

Massive outbreak, hospitals at breaking point.

Everything gets shut down, people stay home and don't mix, they don't go to bars or cinemas or concerts or Broadway, subway ridership declines massively, they wear masks when they do have to go out.

Slowly things get better, especially after the mask mandate goes into effect.

You can try to argue that it was using a sledge hammer to crack a nut if you want, but what other option was there with a new virus in a massive, extremely dense population which is completely reliant on public transport and is located at a major global crossroads?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 06, 2020, 03:50:32 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 06, 2020, 01:25:50 PM
Why should they take responsibility for the death toll? Ridiculous statement.

Yes they could have done better.

However again your point ignores the fact that but for lockdown this would have been way worse. So yes it hasn't been as bad as predicted but the world has been half shut and it isn't over yet.
Hard to believe that point still has to be explained to some.

From a 2 meter distance i was talking to a 41 year old woman that recovered from Covid today. She picked it up when someone coughed on her when working in a car boot sale in Carrick on Shannon and Leitrim I might add has the lowest number of case in the ROI.

Her lungs collasped and was placed induced coma for six weeks. She's not overweight or had any underlying conditions makes one think about this seriousness of this virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on July 06, 2020, 03:52:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 06, 2020, 03:18:09 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on July 06, 2020, 02:47:05 PM
The stats don't speak for themselves though.

I was reading on this board some debate on David De Gea so I googled to see what his overall numbers for the season are as opposed to anecdotal remembering of 1 or 2 mistakes and the very first article I clicked on was below.  It has Allison in bottom place and if you go purely on this statistic Allison is the worst keeper in the league.

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/saves?po=GOALKEEPER

This is the sort of 1 number without context information we are getting on covid.  To give the numbers more meaning they at a minimum should be broken down by age range, with or from, healthy/underlying health condition/terminal illness, lab test diagnosis or suspected.  Without any breakdown the statistics we are being given are only slightly above meaningless.

The stats are pretty clear in New York City and the surrounding areas.

Massive outbreak, hospitals at breaking point.

Everything gets shut down, people stay home and don't mix, they don't go to bars or cinemas or concerts or Broadway, subway ridership declines massively, they wear masks when they do have to go out.

Slowly things get better, especially after the mask mandate goes into effect.

You can try to argue that it was using a sledge hammer to crack a nut if you want, but what other option was there with a new virus in a massive, extremely dense population which is completely reliant on public transport and is located at a major global crossroads?
That is a good analogy.  Hopefully in years to come we can get to a point where we can see with more clarity whether we are using a sledge hammer to crack a nut or not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 06, 2020, 05:03:32 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 06, 2020, 03:50:32 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 06, 2020, 01:25:50 PM
Why should they take responsibility for the death toll? Ridiculous statement.

Yes they could have done better.

However again your point ignores the fact that but for lockdown this would have been way worse. So yes it hasn't been as bad as predicted but the world has been half shut and it isn't over yet.
Hard to believe that point still has to be explained to some.

From a 2 meter distance i was talking to a 41 year old woman that recovered from Covid today. She picked it up when someone coughed on her when working in a car boot sale in Carrick on Shannon and Leitrim I might add has the lowest number of case in the ROI.

Her lungs collasped and was placed induced coma for six weeks. She's not overweight or had any underlying conditions makes one think about this seriousness of this virus.

Yeah the reality is you just don't know how it would impact you or yours irrespective of age.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 06, 2020, 05:07:34 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 06, 2020, 03:50:32 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 06, 2020, 01:25:50 PM
Why should they take responsibility for the death toll? Ridiculous statement.

Yes they could have done better.

However again your point ignores the fact that but for lockdown this would have been way worse. So yes it hasn't been as bad as predicted but the world has been half shut and it isn't over yet.
Hard to believe that point still has to be explained to some.

From a 2 meter distance i was talking to a 41 year old woman that recovered from Covid today. She picked it up when someone coughed on her when working in a car boot sale in Carrick on Shannon and Leitrim I might add has the lowest number of case in the ROI.

Her lungs collasped and was placed induced coma for six weeks. She's not overweight or had any underlying conditions makes one think about this seriousness of this virus.

She assumes she picked it up that way because it's memorable I take it?

What's more likely is, she's not washed her hands after filling up the car, using an ATM, drinking out of a workplace tea cup which hasn't been cleaned properly or handled by someone else prior (making it for her) etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 06, 2020, 05:25:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 06, 2020, 05:07:34 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 06, 2020, 03:50:32 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 06, 2020, 01:25:50 PM
Why should they take responsibility for the death toll? Ridiculous statement.

Yes they could have done better.

However again your point ignores the fact that but for lockdown this would have been way worse. So yes it hasn't been as bad as predicted but the world has been half shut and it isn't over yet.
Hard to believe that point still has to be explained to some.

From a 2 meter distance i was talking to a 41 year old woman that recovered from Covid today. She picked it up when someone coughed on her when working in a car boot sale in Carrick on Shannon and Leitrim I might add has the lowest number of case in the ROI.

Her lungs collasped and was placed induced coma for six weeks. She's not overweight or had any underlying conditions makes one think about this seriousness of this virus.

She assumes she picked it up that way because it's memorable I take it?

What's more likely is, she's not washed her hands after filling up the car, using an ATM, drinking out of a workplace tea cup which hasn't been cleaned properly or handled by someone else prior (making it for her) etc.

All she was in contact with was tracked and traced. The fella that accidentally coughed in her direction had mild symptoms and didn't know he had the virus until tested.

It happened in early March when people was less clued on the precautions to take.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 06, 2020, 07:56:21 PM
25 cases in the north this past week. Reading round they seem to reckon there's a cluster of them in crossgar.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on July 06, 2020, 11:12:30 PM
The COVID contact tracing app is now available on both Apple and Android.

Just search COVID Tracker Ireland.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on July 07, 2020, 09:47:17 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 06, 2020, 07:56:21 PM
25 cases in the north this past week. Reading round they seem to reckon there's a cluster of them in crossgar.

It was reported initially as County Down but I just don't get why they don't be more specific if they have that information as it may help people in that area to be more vigilant..

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on July 07, 2020, 09:50:58 AM
I see the tracing app is now live. I downloaded it this morning.
https://www.covidtracker.ie/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 07, 2020, 10:15:00 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 07, 2020, 09:47:17 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 06, 2020, 07:56:21 PM
25 cases in the north this past week. Reading round they seem to reckon there's a cluster of them in crossgar.

It was reported initially as County Down but I just don't get why they don't be more specific if they have that information as it may help people in that area to be more vigilant..

Yeah they just panic people. A friend of mine lives round that area and says the "cluster" is from a house party in crossgar. That reporting would panic people anywhere in down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 07, 2020, 10:26:59 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 07, 2020, 10:15:00 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 07, 2020, 09:47:17 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 06, 2020, 07:56:21 PM
25 cases in the north this past week. Reading round they seem to reckon there's a cluster of them in crossgar.

It was reported initially as County Down but I just don't get why they don't be more specific if they have that information as it may help people in that area to be more vigilant..

Yeah they just panic people. A friend of mine lives round that area and says the "cluster" is from a house party in crossgar. That reporting would panic people anywhere in down.

Alot of modern reporting is based on this now, for clicks and views unfortunately.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-pubs-close-again-after-punters-test-positive-for-covid-19-12022747

"Pubs close again"....3, the rest are ok.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 07, 2020, 10:58:52 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 07, 2020, 10:26:59 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 07, 2020, 10:15:00 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 07, 2020, 09:47:17 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 06, 2020, 07:56:21 PM
25 cases in the north this past week. Reading round they seem to reckon there's a cluster of them in crossgar.

It was reported initially as County Down but I just don't get why they don't be more specific if they have that information as it may help people in that area to be more vigilant..

Yeah they just panic people. A friend of mine lives round that area and says the "cluster" is from a house party in crossgar. That reporting would panic people anywhere in down.

Alot of modern reporting is based on this now, for clicks and views unfortunately.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-pubs-close-again-after-punters-test-positive-for-covid-19-12022747

"Pubs close again"....3, the rest are ok.

Most of these reports are quite informative, but the headline writer sticks something misleading on top, partly to get sensational headlines but also to cut the number of words.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 07, 2020, 11:59:03 AM
In fact ballynahinch has a cluster too. Must be all the swinging down round those parts ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 07, 2020, 12:10:44 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 07, 2020, 11:59:03 AM
In fact ballynahinch has a cluster too. Must be all the swinging down round those parts ;D

Dont think Covid-19 would even hang around to long in Ballynahinch!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 07, 2020, 12:45:58 PM
(https://www.flyertalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/texas-medical-association-covid-19-chart-1128x1536.png)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on July 07, 2020, 12:54:40 PM
Someone doesn't like people going to bars...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 07, 2020, 12:57:46 PM
Quote from: five points on July 07, 2020, 12:54:40 PM
Someone doesn't like people going to bars...

Or organised religion.....

Should have slipped in Mexicans creeping under our wall at 9 too for full effect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 07, 2020, 01:16:54 PM
When even Texas doctors are conceding that bars and large religious gatherings are hot spots for spread...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 07, 2020, 01:18:31 PM
In South Korea, churches, bars and dodgy nightclubs have been important modes of transmission, so they are not far off the mark.

Also some of these depend on the particular conditions, going to someone else's house is one risk when they live alone, work from home and don't go to bars. It is another risk if they live with three people who work in supermarkets, drive a bus and work in a bar.

Perhaps these apps should score your risk based on the number of people you have been in contact with.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on July 07, 2020, 01:36:35 PM
And there was me thinking filling stations were the devil, along with supermarkets.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on July 07, 2020, 01:50:41 PM
If supermarkets and filling stations were serious infection risks, the thing would be still running rampant.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 07, 2020, 01:58:55 PM
Quote from: laoislad on July 07, 2020, 09:50:58 AM
I see the tracing app is now live. I downloaded it this morning.
https://www.covidtracker.ie/
Ditto
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 07, 2020, 02:38:06 PM
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa939/5867798
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 07, 2020, 02:44:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 07, 2020, 02:38:06 PM
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa939/5867798

So another lockdown?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 07, 2020, 03:48:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 07, 2020, 01:58:55 PM
Quote from: laoislad on July 07, 2020, 09:50:58 AM
I see the tracing app is now live. I downloaded it this morning.
https://www.covidtracker.ie/
Ditto

How does it work? Say I go to the shop and someone in the shop has it will I get a notification?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 07, 2020, 05:32:00 PM
Bolsanaro is Brazil has the virus, let's see if he believes in it now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 07, 2020, 06:23:51 PM
Sweden now with 2 people in ICU
Deaths are almost zero a day
Testing is away up from what they were testing 2 months ago
Hospital admissions away down
Testing positive reminds the same
What does that tell us?
They now know how to deal with patients?
Or
Younger ones getting it? As not many going into hospital with it anymore
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 07, 2020, 06:26:00 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 07, 2020, 06:23:51 PM
Sweden now with 2 people in ICU
Deaths are almost zero a day
Testing is away up from what they were testing 2 months ago
Hospital admissions away down
Testing positive reminds the same
What does that tell us?
They now know how to deal with patients?
Or
Younger ones getting it? As not many going into hospital with it anymore

Might have mutated to a weaker strain perhaps?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on July 07, 2020, 06:30:22 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 07, 2020, 06:26:00 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 07, 2020, 06:23:51 PM
Sweden now with 2 people in ICU
Deaths are almost zero a day
Testing is away up from what they were testing 2 months ago
Hospital admissions away down
Testing positive reminds the same
What does that tell us?
They now know how to deal with patients?
Or
Younger ones getting it? As not many going into hospital with it anymore

Might have mutated to a weaker strain perhaps?

i think thats the most likely.. i asked my relative (dr) a question yesterday regarding better treatment and she said treatment hasnt advanced much.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 07, 2020, 06:33:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 07, 2020, 01:58:55 PM
Quote from: laoislad on July 07, 2020, 09:50:58 AM
I see the tracing app is now live. I downloaded it this morning.
https://www.covidtracker.ie/
Ditto
605,000 others have now done so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 07, 2020, 06:50:19 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on July 07, 2020, 06:30:22 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 07, 2020, 06:26:00 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 07, 2020, 06:23:51 PM
Sweden now with 2 people in ICU
Deaths are almost zero a day
Testing is away up from what they were testing 2 months ago
Hospital admissions away down
Testing positive reminds the same
What does that tell us?
They now know how to deal with patients?
Or
Younger ones getting it? As not many going into hospital with it anymore

Might have mutated to a weaker strain perhaps?

i think thats the most likely.. i asked my relative (dr) a question yesterday regarding better treatment and she said treatment hasnt advanced much.

Treatment hasn't advanced much, but with a bit of this and a bit of that the death rate may still have halved. The real difference is that there are now fairly effective measures in nursing homes and the like. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 07, 2020, 09:18:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 07, 2020, 05:32:00 PM
Bolsanaro is Brazil has the virus, let's see if he believes in it now.

Might go the other way, he might brush it off and strengthen his resolve.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 07, 2020, 09:33:21 PM
Hasn't done much for Boris either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on July 07, 2020, 10:41:44 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 07, 2020, 03:48:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 07, 2020, 01:58:55 PM
Quote from: laoislad on July 07, 2020, 09:50:58 AM
I see the tracing app is now live. I downloaded it this morning.
https://www.covidtracker.ie/
Ditto

How does it work? Say I go to the shop and someone in the shop has it will I get a notification?

QuoteThe app uses the phone to send out Bluetooth signals, which are acknowledged by other phones (which have the app) and stored for two weeks. If you test positive for Covid-19, you can then kick off a contact tracing process. As part of that process, the contact tracing person you're dealing with will ask whether you'll allow your phone's signal bank to alert others you've been in close proximity to. If you agree, you get a code, you enter it and then other phones with the app, which have been in close proximity to you over the last 14 days, will get an alert to say they were in close contact with someone who now has Covid-19.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on July 08, 2020, 01:30:40 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 06, 2020, 01:29:40 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 06, 2020, 01:23:43 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 05, 2020, 08:24:33 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on July 05, 2020, 08:18:53 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 05, 2020, 07:19:47 PM
Ross coming out with that line
Very predictable
Try telling that too zzzzzz
Try telling the lockdown wasn't needed to the young and healthy who have now lost jobs businesses lives and much more

A family member is a doctor and works with covid patients (also had covid), i relayed some of your posts to her and whats she thinks of you i couldn't post on here, put mildly she shares none of your opinions.
To be fair, she'd only be marginally more informed than Ashley Cole on this matter.

Other doctors are advising today through the Telegraph that there could be an additional 35k cancer deaths this year in the UK, due to missed and cancelled tests during Corona.

Personally I don't think any group should have a platform to promote their wild, panic inducing theories  until there is genuine evidence to back up their numbers. It's scaremongering and it's shit.

But let's assume for a few seconds that they're even half right. How do the "close everything down, and keep it closed" wing of Covid analysts feel about this? There was always going to be a medical trade off for the measures taken to control Covid. Given that these people feel completely justified to condemn the actions of any individual who doesn't follow rigid guidelines, would someone who finds out today that they've had cancer spreading for the past 3 months, be within their rights to condemn these people back?

Some people wouldn't be happy unless everything was closed for an eternity, everyone had lost their job and we were all eating wild berries and drinking our own urine.
Lockdown Fascists.
I imagine the wobbler will go nuts when he sees this post.

Oh wait, he didn't.

Funny that!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on July 08, 2020, 01:39:32 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 07, 2020, 09:18:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 07, 2020, 05:32:00 PM
Bolsanaro is Brazil has the virus, let's see if he believes in it now.

Might go the other way, he might brush it off and strengthen his resolve.
Hopefully for Brazil's sake he gets a right dose of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on July 08, 2020, 01:46:07 AM
Right-wing America is being led by donkeys

Tucker Carlson March 2020

"Of course, masks work," he said. "Everyone knows that. Dozens of research papers have proved it. In South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, the rest of Asia -- where coronavirus has been kept under control -- masks were key."

Tucker Carlson July 2020

Tucker Carlson says masks and social distancing "have no basis of any kind in science. It's like a kind of bizarre health theater"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on July 08, 2020, 08:02:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 08, 2020, 01:30:40 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 06, 2020, 01:29:40 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 06, 2020, 01:23:43 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 05, 2020, 08:24:33 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on July 05, 2020, 08:18:53 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 05, 2020, 07:19:47 PM
Ross coming out with that line
Very predictable
Try telling that too zzzzzz
Try telling the lockdown wasn't needed to the young and healthy who have now lost jobs businesses lives and much more

A family member is a doctor and works with covid patients (also had covid), i relayed some of your posts to her and whats she thinks of you i couldn't post on here, put mildly she shares none of your opinions.
To be fair, she'd only be marginally more informed than Ashley Cole on this matter.

Other doctors are advising today through the Telegraph that there could be an additional 35k cancer deaths this year in the UK, due to missed and cancelled tests during Corona.

Personally I don't think any group should have a platform to promote their wild, panic inducing theories  until there is genuine evidence to back up their numbers. It's scaremongering and it's shit.

But let's assume for a few seconds that they're even half right. How do the "close everything down, and keep it closed" wing of Covid analysts feel about this? There was always going to be a medical trade off for the measures taken to control Covid. Given that these people feel completely justified to condemn the actions of any individual who doesn't follow rigid guidelines, would someone who finds out today that they've had cancer spreading for the past 3 months, be within their rights to condemn these people back?

Some people wouldn't be happy unless everything was closed for an eternity, everyone had lost their job and we were all eating wild berries and drinking our own urine.
Lockdown Fascists.
I imagine the wobbler will go nuts when he sees this post.

Oh wait, he didn't.

Funny that!

Is there something I missed?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 08, 2020, 02:28:07 PM
Israel, an early success story, is now locking down again having lost control of the virus. It is believed that they cut back on testing and tracing and didn't act quickly when cases arose.
This virus is a hard one to regulate, as events in Melbourne also show.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on July 08, 2020, 03:04:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 08, 2020, 02:28:07 PM
Israel, an early success story, is now locking down again having lost control of the virus. It is believed that they cut back on testing and tracing and didn't act quickly when cases arose.
This virus is a hard one to regulate, as events in Melbourne also show.

We're just lucky that we have smurfy and trailer here to keep us right  8)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 08, 2020, 05:43:15 PM
7 day average of 13 cases a day in the ROI and only 1 death in the last 4 days. 9 in ICU and 12 hospitalised. All good numbers as we approach July 20th.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aaron Boone on July 08, 2020, 05:57:17 PM
You'd imagine the Gardai will be all over Dame Lane this weekend. 5 pubs converge in the small street and all were selling "take-away" pints.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 08, 2020, 06:20:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 08, 2020, 02:28:07 PM
Israel, an early success story, is now locking down again having lost control of the virus. It is believed that they cut back on testing and tracing and didn't act quickly when cases arose.
This virus is a hard one to regulate, as events in Melbourne also show.
Israel's health system is underfunded.  With Covid you have to.follow through.Israel prioritises settlers


Half of the 1000 cases per day occur im the religious Orthodox community where everything that happens is fate.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LincolnsBible/status/1247578651962388481
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on July 09, 2020, 04:39:50 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 08, 2020, 05:43:15 PM
7 day average of 13 cases a day in the ROI and only 1 death in the last 4 days. 9 in ICU and 12 hospitalised. All good numbers as we approach July 20th.

That's great news, but based on what is happening here in Australia, would advise caution.

From mid-April to mid-June down to a trickle of cases, but started to seriously ramp up again resulting in some suburbs of Melbourne going into lockdown.

17/04 - 22/06 average of 14.7 new cases / day
22/06 - 08/07 average of 76.8 new cases / day

Thankfully our no of deaths remain relatively low at 106 lives lost, however we may only be starting to see the result of the latest spike on death tolls (4 of 106 since 24/06)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 09, 2020, 11:12:47 AM
Not a massive number of cases in Victoria, but that growth rate is alarming

(https://scx1.b-cdn.net/csz/news/800/2020/5f0300925f752.jpg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on July 09, 2020, 12:35:49 PM
61,848 cases in the US yesterday.

And the deaths are trending back up.

Seems a lot of pro-Trump, right-wing culture warriors don't understand, or have chosen not to understand a very basic concept called lag.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 09, 2020, 12:46:55 PM
Using the word "understand" in the same sentence as those gobsh1tes is a real oxy moron.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 09, 2020, 12:52:48 PM
Population:
Island of Ireland: 6.8 million
Arizona 7.3 million

Covid-19 cases in last 7 days:
Island of Ireland: 106
Arizona: 30,561
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tiempo on July 09, 2020, 12:55:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 09, 2020, 12:35:49 PM
61,848 cases in the US yesterday.

And the deaths are trending back up.

Seems a lot of pro-Trump, right-wing culture warriors don't understand, or have chosen not to understand a very basic concept called lag.

Any prediction whether second localised waves will hit parts of England following mass gatherings the last few weeks?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 09, 2020, 01:11:22 PM
Quote from: tiempo on July 09, 2020, 12:55:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 09, 2020, 12:35:49 PM
61,848 cases in the US yesterday.

And the deaths are trending back up.

Seems a lot of pro-Trump, right-wing culture warriors don't understand, or have chosen not to understand a very basic concept called lag.

Any prediction whether second localised waves will hit parts of England following mass gatherings the last few weeks?

Bouremouth Beach was declared a major incident on 25th June.

You should have really heard by now....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 09, 2020, 01:24:16 PM
Should be a spike in West Belfast anytime soon given last weeks shenanigans...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 09, 2020, 02:13:08 PM
Would I be correct that there was no spike from the BLM protests either?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 09, 2020, 02:20:27 PM
The spikes from these events may or may not happen. If there was no one there who was contagious, which is perfectly feasible, then they will not be the major incidents some think they could be.

I still don't think they have fully nailed how people catch this. Indoors with less ventilation, poor air con etc seems to be the environment it spreads most in(or they reckon it spreads most in) from what I can gauge.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on July 09, 2020, 02:30:40 PM
It's hard to believe there was no-one contagious on either Bournemouth Beach (and indeed Durdle Door) or the various BLM outings.

If poor ventilation and aircon are to blame, that's air travel gone for years.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 09, 2020, 02:35:23 PM
Quote from: five points on July 09, 2020, 02:30:40 PM
It's hard to believe there was no-one contagious on either Bournemouth Beach (and indeed Durdle Door) or the various BLM outings.

If poor ventilation and aircon are to blame, that's air travel gone for years.

aeroplanes have the most sophisticated of ventilation systems, you are much more likely to get the pox in some nightclub or pub, the latter are not really a runner.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 09, 2020, 02:36:09 PM
Yeah. Keyword is if.

Yeah I would agree hard to believe no one at all but if there were cases depends how it spreads. I don't think that is well understood at all.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 09, 2020, 02:45:46 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 09, 2020, 02:13:08 PM
Would I be correct that there was no spike from the BLM protests either?

There was very little distancing at the Belfast one from what I seen, haven't heard much of a blow back on it just yet.

Anecdotal evidence.....yes, I know....seems like 'clusters' form when peoples late night social activities come home to roost...it won't happen to me stuff. Yet, it does.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 09, 2020, 02:46:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 09, 2020, 02:20:27 PM
The spikes from these events may or may not happen. If there was no one there who was contagious, which is perfectly feasible, then they will not be the major incidents some think they could be.

I still don't think they have fully nailed how people catch this. Indoors with less ventilation, poor air con etc seems to be the environment it spreads most in(or they reckon it spreads most in) from what I can gauge.

If it circulating then there must be a spike linked with all these mass gatherings? Otherwise we should be opening up far more quickly than the current pace.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 09, 2020, 04:10:55 PM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on July 09, 2020, 04:39:50 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 08, 2020, 05:43:15 PM
7 day average of 13 cases a day in the ROI and only 1 death in the last 4 days. 9 in ICU and 12 hospitalised. All good numbers as we approach July 20th.

That's great news, but based on what is happening here in Australia, would advise caution.

From mid-April to mid-June down to a trickle of cases, but started to seriously ramp up again resulting in some suburbs of Melbourne going into lockdown.

17/04 - 22/06 average of 14.7 new cases / day
22/06 - 08/07 average of 76.8 new cases / day

Thankfully our no of deaths remain relatively low at 106 lives lost, however we may only be starting to see the result of the latest spike on death tolls (4 of 106 since 24/06)

Yes an example to Ireland if complacency kicks in. I'm following the Melbourne situation closely as my friend lives there and his wife works in the Alfred hospital.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 09, 2020, 04:32:05 PM
With all sports teams throughout Ireland back 15 days with absolutely no spike at all what is that about? All sports back young and old
GAA
SOCCER
RUGBY

Cases on this island still floating around 15 per day.
No spike
Why?
We need to know why
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on July 09, 2020, 04:35:45 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 09, 2020, 04:32:05 PM
With all sports teams throughout Ireland back 15 days with absolutely no spike at all what is that about? All sports back young and old
GAA
SOCCER
RUGBY

Cases on this island still floating around 15 per day.
No spike
Why?
We need to know why

that to me suggests that "lockdown" has been generally a good success.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on July 09, 2020, 04:53:59 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on July 09, 2020, 04:35:45 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 09, 2020, 04:32:05 PM
With all sports teams throughout Ireland back 15 days with absolutely no spike at all what is that about? All sports back young and old
GAA
SOCCER
RUGBY

Cases on this island still floating around 15 per day.
No spike
Why?
We need to know why

that to me suggests that "lockdown" has been generally a good success.

Yes and the Irish compliance should be commended.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 09, 2020, 04:57:29 PM
Why Padraig?
Should we not see some spike?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on July 09, 2020, 05:40:00 PM
we could have seen some, many, few or no spikes. the number of community transmissions is lower and international travel is low because of lockdown and these mitigate against the risk of spikes. Low or no spikes now does not mean spikes could potentially happen in the future.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 09, 2020, 05:56:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 09, 2020, 02:46:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 09, 2020, 02:20:27 PM
The spikes from these events may or may not happen. If there was no one there who was contagious, which is perfectly feasible, then they will not be the major incidents some think they could be.

I still don't think they have fully nailed how people catch this. Indoors with less ventilation, poor air con etc seems to be the environment it spreads most in(or they reckon it spreads most in) from what I can gauge.

If it circulating then there must be a spike linked with all these mass gatherings? Otherwise we should be opening up far more quickly than the current pace.

I haven't heard of a spike relating to the mass gatherings yet- not to say there hasn't been one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 09, 2020, 05:59:28 PM
When will the second wave happen?
Most likely October-February?
And likely start to this will be incoming flights I take it??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 09, 2020, 06:08:56 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on July 09, 2020, 05:40:00 PM
we could have seen some, many, few or no spikes. the number of community transmissions is lower and international travel is low because of lockdown and these mitigate against the risk of spikes. Low or no spikes now does not mean spikes could potentially happen in the future.

I still think the indoors seems like the main culprit and indoors has been significantly restricted thus far. Once restaurants and bars get opened a bit more it will be interesting to see then there is the travel aspect too. Travelling back from America could cause problems.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on July 09, 2020, 06:11:21 PM
i cannot predict the future. i dont know if there will be or wont be a second wave or if there is when it is likely to start/finish or if it does happen how it will likely start.

i can tell you that the risk of a second wave increases with increased number of incoming travel from areas with high incidents of covid. i would think that if there is an increase that flu season would be a bad time and increased levels of covid would stretch our health system and potentially have deadly consequences.

i think given our response to the initial outbreak that a larger second wave is less likely because i think we will lockdown sooner.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 09, 2020, 06:13:11 PM
15 of the ROI 23 cases today are travel related. All cases today was aged under 44.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 09, 2020, 06:22:22 PM
And the R thingy is up to 1 now.
It certainly hasn't gone away.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 09, 2020, 07:58:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 09, 2020, 06:22:22 PM
And the R thingy is up to 1 now.
It certainly hasn't gone away.

Nope. It's getting way worse in Florida now too, nearly 9,000 cases there today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 09, 2020, 09:38:30 PM
Covid all but extinguished in Ireland.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 09, 2020, 09:59:58 PM
Very hard to say that. The country still far from opened up. Time will tell on it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 09, 2020, 10:05:12 PM
Would 50 or so all under the age of 45 getting it everyday be a bad thing in this country? Out of all the cases today none needed hospital treatment. Under 45s getting it with no underlying issues is affectively like picking up a flu.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 09, 2020, 10:05:58 PM
Yes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on July 09, 2020, 10:16:32 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 09, 2020, 10:05:12 PM
Would 50 or so all under the age of 45 getting it everyday be a bad thing in this country? Out of all the cases today none needed hospital treatment. Under 45s getting it with no underlying issues is affectively like picking up a flu.

the long term effects are not known. how many of that 50 will pass it on to someone who will need hospital treatment etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 09, 2020, 10:33:17 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 09, 2020, 10:05:12 PM
Would 50 or so all under the age of 45 getting it everyday be a bad thing in this country? Out of all the cases today none needed hospital treatment. Under 45s getting it with no underlying issues is affectively like picking up a flu.
Tell that to Derek Draper, was in a coma for weeks, will never be the same. 52
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on July 09, 2020, 10:37:16 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 09, 2020, 09:38:30 PM
Covid all but extinguished in Ireland.

We'll see where we stand in the months ahead but jumping to such conclusions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on July 09, 2020, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 09, 2020, 10:33:17 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 09, 2020, 10:05:12 PM
Would 50 or so all under the age of 45 getting it everyday be a bad thing in this country? Out of all the cases today none needed hospital treatment. Under 45s getting it with no underlying issues is affectively like picking up a flu.
Tell that to Derek Draper, was in a coma for weeks, will never be the same. 52

What about the dozens of peers of Derek Draper, also aged 52, who missed appointments over the past 3 months, which would have detected their cancer early. What would you tell them folk?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 09, 2020, 10:59:32 PM
Well said Wobbler
Milltown using that one
What about it milltown?
So Padraig you want the places closed until we are Covid free?
What about the old and vulnerable who die from a bad case of flu?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 09, 2020, 11:09:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 09, 2020, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 09, 2020, 10:33:17 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 09, 2020, 10:05:12 PM
Would 50 or so all under the age of 45 getting it everyday be a bad thing in this country? Out of all the cases today none needed hospital treatment. Under 45s getting it with no underlying issues is affectively like picking up a flu.
Tell that to Derek Draper, was in a coma for weeks, will never be the same. 52

What about the dozens of peers of Derek Draper, also aged 52, who missed appointments over the past 3 months, which would have detected their cancer early. What would you tell them folk?

I don't think so, I've been during lockdown taking my dad for cancer treatments, consultations, scans and treatments. So from my experience the hospital have been carrying out what's needed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 09, 2020, 11:11:22 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 09, 2020, 10:59:32 PM
Well said Wobbler
Milltown using that one
What about it milltown?
So Padraig you want the places closed until we are Covid free?
What about the old and vulnerable who die from a bad case of flu?

Are you saying that people around the age of 50 are immune to dying of Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 09, 2020, 11:13:42 PM
Who said that?
You are in total denial
Yes people can die of Covid under 50 but highly unlikely
Do you think people of 50 are immune from flu?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 09, 2020, 11:14:36 PM
Are you saying it's a flu?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 09, 2020, 11:16:09 PM
No
I'm asking you are people immune from dyin from the flu?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 09, 2020, 11:18:10 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 09, 2020, 11:16:09 PM
No
I'm asking you are people immune from dyin from the flu?

It's the Coronavirus thread. Start a flu thread or a malaria thread or something else that's completely different to Covid and discuss
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on July 09, 2020, 11:18:44 PM
I'm going to assume he was already in the system MR2 so it would have been extraordinarily inept not to continue with his care.

All of Derek's peers are lads who should have had a prostrate exam, but these were cancelled. Or have been having migraines or tiredness, and ordinarily would have had blood tests.

——

My basic point here is this.

This thread has seen a few people advise that (paraphrasing) "we don't know the long term effects of Covid yet". With the intimation that we need to be extremely cautious not to declare those who have had Covid as survivors.

The thing is, anyone with this viewpoint is speculating.

One thing we do know for sure though is that cancer will almost certainly have extraordinary consequences if not detected early. You may survive, but only after a long period of hell.

That is not speculation.

We need to prioritise things we know about over things we don't.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on July 09, 2020, 11:19:11 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 09, 2020, 10:59:32 PM
Well said Wobbler
Milltown using that one
What about it milltown?
So Padraig you want the places closed until we are Covid free?
What about the old and vulnerable who die from a bad case of flu?

where have i said i want places closed until we are covid free?? ive no idea what old and vulnerable people who die from a bad case of flu has to do with anything, you might explain.

i doubt cancelling cancer screening was an easy decision, i tried to find some stats on detection rates from screening and it didnt appear very high, however to the individuals who it would have picked up there is little solace in that. I imagine there is a perceived greater good argument and another that starting treatmemt and having an compromised immune system with rampant covid wouldnt be ideal. i sont think treatment or testing stopped only the screening, i could be wrong on that however.

No doubt the actions taken to prevent the spead of covid and save lifes from that spread will likely mean others will be at higher risk from a lack of treatment or lack of identification of other illnesses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 09, 2020, 11:19:25 PM
But you can discuss cancer on this thread?
Why can't you answer
Are 50 year olds immune from dying from flu?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on July 09, 2020, 11:24:24 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 09, 2020, 11:19:25 PM
But you can discuss cancer on this thread?
Why can't you answer
Are 50 year olds immune from dying from flu?

i find you very hard to follow..at least the question make sense now in isolation but i dont have a clue what the point of it is.

no 50 years are not immune from dying from the flu.. who thinks that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 09, 2020, 11:26:04 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 09, 2020, 11:18:44 PM
I'm going to assume he was already in the system MR2 so it would have been extraordinarily inept not to continue with his care.

All of Derek's peers are lads who should have had a prostrate exam, but these were cancelled. Or have been having migraines or tiredness, and ordinarily would have had blood tests.

——

My basic point here is this.

This thread has seen a few people advise that (paraphrasing) "we don't know the long term effects of Covid yet". With the intimation that we need to be extremely cautious not to declare those who have had Covid as survivors.

The thing is, anyone with this viewpoint is speculating.

One thing we do know for sure though is that cancer will almost certainly have extraordinary consequences if not detected early. You may survive, but only after a long period of hell.

That is not speculation.

We need to prioritise things we know about over things we don't.

You'd assume wrongly then, he wasn't this was all carried out in March through to appointment yesterday. So from a personal experience (unlike yours) I've seen the hospital carry out what's needed. And continue, if anyone has problems the A&E is open and blood tests and the likes have been carried out.

I'll not disagree that people may have stopped going but the hospital is open
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on July 09, 2020, 11:31:29 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 09, 2020, 11:18:44 PM
I'm going to assume he was already in the system MR2 so it would have been extraordinarily inept not to continue with his care.

All of Derek's peers are lads who should have had a prostrate exam, but these were cancelled. Or have been having migraines or tiredness, and ordinarily would have had blood tests.

——

My basic point here is this.

This thread has seen a few people advise that (paraphrasing) "we don't know the long term effects of Covid yet". With the intimation that we need to be extremely cautious not to declare those who have had Covid as survivors.

The thing is, anyone with this viewpoint is speculating.

One thing we do know for sure though is that cancer will almost certainly have extraordinary consequences if not detected early. You may survive, but only after a long period of hell.

That is not speculation.

We need to prioritise things we know about over things we don't.

wobbler, i hope this does not come across harsh.

10000 people (no idea how many people didnt get screened over last 3 months) put at risk of covid to find a small % of people with cancer. .(006%) i saw in an article that said 1.9m tests and 12200 cases detected.

it is speculation regarding long term effects but it is also putting an awful lot of people at risk to find .006% (assuming that stat is correct).  i would hope the decison makers weighted up all the consequences before making a decison like that and that decsion ultimately lead to less deaths overall.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 09, 2020, 11:44:27 PM
There will obviously be multiple waves of this, that is obvious. Be it from travel or drink, it'll eventually find ways back in and ways to spread.

Unfortunately due to politics there won't be quarantine from England (or Europe for that matter), so that avenue will remain open.

Unfortunately due to folks need to get drunk, call that selfishness if you want, pubs & clubs will spread it.

Unfortunately due to ignorance, lack of clear messaging, organisational ineptitude and for a few, paranoia, tracking & tracing will leave big gaps.



Hopefully it mutates into a more benign form (which is normally the case). A vaccine still cannot come quick enough.


Latest on the track and tracing app is here:
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53322751

[and it isn't foolproof either before anyone asks]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on July 09, 2020, 11:59:44 PM
PadraigHP, when you talk about the "decision makers" weighing up consequences. I'm more forgiving of politicians (and doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc) than most, because i don't put them on a pedestal. They're only human. They can only have narrow but deep specialisms, or broad but shallow understandings... and even if they happen to be polymaths, all of that understanding can only function due to the detriment of other mental functions.

Politicians across the globe were hung out to dry on Covid, and with a rapidness rarely if ever seen before, because the people who are funded to best understand and inform on these things, pressed full scale panic buttons before they really understood Covid 19. I don't even blame the "scientists" for doing this as the early indications were that a shitstorm was coming.

Anyway what I'm trying to say is that the decision-makers didn't have time to plan, balance or weigh the various factors. This is evident by the speed and willingness to pay wages and grants across industries, with little or no evidence of financial hardship required. Any politician can understand budgets, and if these are being ripped up, to expect them to be able to adequately weigh up medical issues is, well, hopeful.

A lot of things like this would have become obvious a few weeks in. But the decisions were already made (and with good intentions).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 10, 2020, 12:27:29 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on July 09, 2020, 11:24:24 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 09, 2020, 11:19:25 PM
But you can discuss cancer on this thread?
Why can't you answer
Are 50 year olds immune from dying from flu?

i find you very hard to follow..at least the question make sense now in isolation but i dont have a clue what the point of it is.

no 50 years are not immune from dying from the flu.. who thinks that?

Vulnerable people are usually careful to get a flu vaccine, while it isn't 100% effective , it does greatly improve their chances.

Quote from: thewobbler on July 09, 2020, 11:59:44 PM
Anyway what I'm trying to say is that the decision-makers didn't have time to plan, balance or weigh the various factors. This is evident by the speed and willingness to pay wages and grants across industries, with little or no evidence of financial hardship required. Any politician can understand budgets, and if these are being ripped up, to expect them to be able to adequately weigh up medical issues is, well, hopeful.

A lot of things like this would have become obvious a few weeks in. But the decisions were already made (and with good intentions).

In March it was more important to act than to fine tune your response. Now is the time for adjustment.

First principle, don't reopen until you are ready!

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/07/09/us/09virus-briefing-chart/coronavirus-cases-reopening-trends-promo-1594316434343-superJumbo.jpg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on July 10, 2020, 01:19:27 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 09, 2020, 09:38:30 PM
Covid all but extinguished in Ireland.
More brains in a false face
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 10, 2020, 07:52:11 AM
Talking about cancelling cancer treatments due to COVID-19 is slightly different from comparing cancer with it...

Cancer centres I think had to plan for what they could do in a worst case scenario of 20% staff operating so everything had to be prioritised. That is up north anyway. It is or was a very difficult call to make but when you don't know what's coming day on day and have to prepare for the worst then I guess what else can you do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 10, 2020, 08:55:23 AM
A flight landed in Dublin airport this morning from Dallas.

Is there anyone else uneasy that Americans are free to visit Ireland at the minute?
I understand it will be driven by "our special relationship" with the US, but it does seem like this could lead to the re-introduction of greater instances of the virus.

If we don't prevent US flights landing here, then what is the point of blocking flights from any country at the minute?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 10, 2020, 09:18:31 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 10, 2020, 08:55:23 AM
A flight landed in Dublin airport this morning from Dallas.

Is there anyone else uneasy that Americans are free to visit Ireland at the minute?
I understand it will be driven by "our special relationship" with the US, but it does seem like this could lead to the re-introduction of greater instances of the virus.

If we don't prevent US flights landing here, then what is the point of blocking flights from any country at the minute?

You can't prevent movement of people, unless you live in a dictatorship. Hence why airports will always remain open.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on July 10, 2020, 09:28:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 10, 2020, 09:18:31 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 10, 2020, 08:55:23 AM
A flight landed in Dublin airport this morning from Dallas.

Is there anyone else uneasy that Americans are free to visit Ireland at the minute?
I understand it will be driven by "our special relationship" with the US, but it does seem like this could lead to the re-introduction of greater instances of the virus.

If we don't prevent US flights landing here, then what is the point of blocking flights from any country at the minute?

You can't prevent movement of people, unless you live in a dictatorship. Hence why airports will always remain open.

Eh, yes you can and you dont have to live in a dictatorship. Its crazy that flights like the above are coming in unless they are bringing Irish people home who will self isolate for 2 weeks. Tourists is absolutely crazy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 10, 2020, 09:29:45 AM
Quote from: Itchy on July 10, 2020, 09:28:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 10, 2020, 09:18:31 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 10, 2020, 08:55:23 AM
A flight landed in Dublin airport this morning from Dallas.

Is there anyone else uneasy that Americans are free to visit Ireland at the minute?
I understand it will be driven by "our special relationship" with the US, but it does seem like this could lead to the re-introduction of greater instances of the virus.

If we don't prevent US flights landing here, then what is the point of blocking flights from any country at the minute?

You can't prevent movement of people, unless you live in a dictatorship. Hence why airports will always remain open.

Eh, yes you can and you dont have to live in a dictatorship. Its crazy that flights like the above are coming in unless they are bringing Irish people home who will self isolate for 2 weeks. Tourists is absolutely crazy.

How, exactly?

Bar the legal rammifcations on an island with two jurisdictions, that is one landmass.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on July 10, 2020, 09:33:58 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 10, 2020, 09:18:31 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 10, 2020, 08:55:23 AM
A flight landed in Dublin airport this morning from Dallas.

Is there anyone else uneasy that Americans are free to visit Ireland at the minute?
I understand it will be driven by "our special relationship" with the US, but it does seem like this could lead to the re-introduction of greater instances of the virus.

If we don't prevent US flights landing here, then what is the point of blocking flights from any country at the minute?

You can't prevent movement of people, unless you live in a dictatorship. Hence why airports will always remain open.
The likes of NZ effectively closed their borders at the early stages of this and is considered the gold standard in Covid control. Hardly a dictatorship.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 10, 2020, 09:35:23 AM
They have the legal framework to do so. We do not.

Bar closing down the airports. Non issue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 10, 2020, 09:37:32 AM
The 6 Cos are now allowing people from 71 Countries to arrive without the need to isolate .
Not much point closing airports in the 26 then.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 10, 2020, 09:43:01 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 10, 2020, 09:18:31 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 10, 2020, 08:55:23 AM
A flight landed in Dublin airport this morning from Dallas.

Is there anyone else uneasy that Americans are free to visit Ireland at the minute?
I understand it will be driven by "our special relationship" with the US, but it does seem like this could lead to the re-introduction of greater instances of the virus.

If we don't prevent US flights landing here, then what is the point of blocking flights from any country at the minute?

You can't prevent movement of people, unless you live in a dictatorship. Hence why airports will always remain open.

More brains in a false face
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 10, 2020, 09:44:11 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 10, 2020, 09:37:32 AM
The 6 Cos are now allowing people from 71 Countries to arrive without the need to isolate .
Not much point closing airports in the 26 then.

Dr McBridie said they will following the London model on travel.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 10, 2020, 09:48:23 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 10, 2020, 09:43:01 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 10, 2020, 09:18:31 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 10, 2020, 08:55:23 AM
A flight landed in Dublin airport this morning from Dallas.

Is there anyone else uneasy that Americans are free to visit Ireland at the minute?
I understand it will be driven by "our special relationship" with the US, but it does seem like this could lead to the re-introduction of greater instances of the virus.

If we don't prevent US flights landing here, then what is the point of blocking flights from any country at the minute?

You can't prevent movement of people, unless you live in a dictatorship. Hence why airports will always remain open.

More brains in a false face

That's a useful input.

Tell me, did Ireland (North or South) at any time during this most recent pandemic close the airports?

Wasn't there a big thing made of the Irish-Australians coming home around March time to help the fight?

They must have jumped onto the back of one of those Game of Thrones Dragons.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 10, 2020, 09:55:15 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 10, 2020, 09:44:11 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 10, 2020, 09:37:32 AM
The 6 Cos are now allowing people from 71 Countries to arrive without the need to isolate .
Not much point closing airports in the 26 then.

Dr McBridie said they will following the London model on travel.

I know I say a bit but this time I really do mean it, there is more brains in a false face than there is in thon lad Dr Michael McBride. Completely out of his depth. Not a clue what to be at and now completely ducking all scrutiny. A manifestation of everything that is wrong with the North and the wankers in the Civil Service. A first class, career-loving, brown-nosing overpaid asshole.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on July 10, 2020, 10:03:06 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 10, 2020, 09:35:23 AM
They have the legal framework to do so. We do not.

Bar closing down the airports. Non issue.

So you reckon an Irish government cannot close their own airports due to their own laws. I am sorry, I simply do not accept that and I dont think any right minded person can accept that. In times of crisis governments lead, they dont get led.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 10, 2020, 10:16:35 AM
Quote from: Itchy on July 10, 2020, 10:03:06 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 10, 2020, 09:35:23 AM
They have the legal framework to do so. We do not.

Bar closing down the airports. Non issue.

So you reckon an Irish government cannot close their own airports due to their own laws. I am sorry, I simply do not accept that and I dont think any right minded person can accept that. In times of crisis governments lead, they dont get led.

The Irish Govt. could close their own airports, they would have to gain the legal approval to do so (which they did not and would probably be still fighting to do so, if they had attempted to with the EU) hence why they didn't even bother. They knew the airlines tanking would for all intents and purposes close mass travel, which it did.

The right of freedom of movement is one of the most basic, core principles of the EU - https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2004:158:0077:0123:EN:PDF

My point is, with two jurisdictions on one Island and both, certainly at the start of the crisis having very different views. It is and was a no go. What would the point of Dublin closing, when Belfast could remain open and vice versa. Ireland simply does not have total control of it's borders but that's another thing altogether.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 10, 2020, 10:25:58 AM
If flights from the states were stopped I would suspect there would be implications. I almost feel that's the main danger we have here is more outbreaks coming in from America as it is so rife there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on July 10, 2020, 10:51:13 AM
Flights from the States would absolutely be a massive concern - and a bigger concern of flights coming from Engerland.

It seems that many people in some States just dont give a f**k and are determind to carry on with life as normal.

I have relations out there (not Trump supporting so not going down that route) who said bars/restaurants are closed in their area but they still saw fit to go to a large wedding banquet or some sort where everyone was hugging/posing for photos/drinking together all night.

And we are letting these people into this island.

The mind boggles  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 10, 2020, 10:59:18 AM
Quote from: Taylor on July 10, 2020, 10:51:13 AM
Flights from the States would absolutely be a massive concern - and a bigger concern of flights coming from Engerland.

It seems that many people in some States just dont give a f**k and are determind to carry on with life as normal.

I have relations out there (not Trump supporting so not going down that route) who said bars/restaurants are closed in their area but they still saw fit to go to a large wedding banquet or some sort where everyone was hugging/posing for photos/drinking together all night.

And we are letting these people into this island.

The mind boggles  :o

As long as their economy is ok, they tend to not really care for much else.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 10, 2020, 11:31:19 AM
They have suspended the visa waiver scheme for people with British visas, which won't stop the yanks coming but does give them a basis stopping some other classes of visitor. That's a start.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 10, 2020, 12:04:11 PM
Disneyworld in Florida set to reopen. Glad Florida are taking this seriously!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on July 10, 2020, 02:09:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 09, 2020, 11:18:44 PM
I'm going to assume he was already in the system MR2 so it would have been extraordinarily inept not to continue with his care.

All of Derek's peers are lads who should have had a prostrate exam, but these were cancelled. Or have been having migraines or tiredness, and ordinarily would have had blood tests.

——

My basic point here is this.

This thread has seen a few people advise that (paraphrasing) "we don't know the long term effects of Covid yet". With the intimation that we need to be extremely cautious not to declare those who have had Covid as survivors.

The thing is, anyone with this viewpoint is speculating.

One thing we do know for sure though is that cancer will almost certainly have extraordinary consequences if not detected early. You may survive, but only after a long period of hell.

That is not speculation.

We need to prioritise things we know about over things we don't.

this is entirely true and what seems to have happened is that absolutely everything was cleared from the decks of the NHS to allow it not to be overrun.

That really shouldn't have happened but was driven by the fact that the NHS, particularly here was/is on it's knees at the best of times. In hindsight I'd say a lot of health professionals will admit that it was a mistake if they're being honest.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 10, 2020, 02:18:14 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 10, 2020, 12:04:11 PM
Disneyworld in Florida set to reopen. Glad Florida are taking this seriously!

They never took it seriously to begin with. NBA to be played in Disney isn't it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 10, 2020, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 10, 2020, 12:04:11 PM
Disneyworld in Florida set to reopen. Glad Florida are taking this seriously!

No problem, only 11,433 new cases a day there.

Meanwhile the Chinese government is warning its citizens about going to Kazakhstan where a new bug is worse than Covid (https://t.co/Wk0i9GO4LE). 
There is also further research about the TB vaccine helping with Covid, the death rate from Covid-19 was 2.9 times higher among people from the former West Germany than those in the former East Germany, and the mortality rate was four times higher in Italy than in Finland.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 11, 2020, 08:36:59 AM

https://www.ft.com/content/95d57c49-4a21-40b8-aa37-42b111b50bb5

The chief executive of Heathrow airport has warned the aviation industry needs to prepare itself for periodic lockdowns around the world as countries are hit by new coronavirus outbreaks. John Holland-Kaye said the airport was considering a range of possible responses as new infections swept across cities previously thought to have brought the pandemic under control, such as Melbourne, Australia, which this week was put into lockdown for six weeks. "If we have periodic outbreaks around the world, we've got to have a different fall back to complete quarantine. There's got to be an alternative that will just become part of the way we live our lives and we need to start working on that now," Mr Holland-Kaye told the FT.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 11, 2020, 10:06:06 AM
Smurphy and trailer will have a fit!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 11, 2020, 12:23:29 PM
Have they not been on permanent fits?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 11, 2020, 12:47:01 PM
Yep lock down the healthy.
Many more cases everywhere with death rate dropping
What does that tell us?
How's furlong going?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 11, 2020, 03:28:50 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 11, 2020, 12:47:01 PM
Yep lock down the healthy.
Many more cases everywhere with death rate dropping
What does that tell us?
How's furlong going?

Any young ones getting it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on July 11, 2020, 06:37:18 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 10, 2020, 08:55:23 AM
A flight landed in Dublin airport this morning from Dallas.

Is there anyone else uneasy that Americans are free to visit Ireland at the minute?
I understand it will be driven by "our special relationship" with the US, but it does seem like this could lead to the re-introduction of greater instances of the virus.

If we don't prevent US flights landing here, then what is the point of blocking flights from any country at the minute?

Is there that many tourists arriving though? I know the likes of MacKenna will tweet details of flight arrivals, but this doesn't show how many are on the flight.

I know someone who works in duty free in the airport and he says its dead there.

For me the fact social distancing is being ignored by more and more people, refusal to wear masks on public transport along with reports today of gardai investigating Covid parties in Kerry are more worrying than American tourists.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 11, 2020, 06:44:24 PM
Neighbours son arrived home from Italy yesterday into Dublin airport, there was 18 on the flight, got to  arrival part in Dublin Was told to fill in Quarantine form, read through it and at the bottom it says if you're heading to Northern Ireland no need to fill in form!

The son was living in northern Italy and was in lockdown from the start!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 11, 2020, 09:06:16 PM
American tourists may not be the biggest problem, but like Dominic Cummings or SF in Belfast people obviously behaving riskily in a public way does nothing to encourage others to do their best.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 11, 2020, 09:35:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 11, 2020, 09:06:16 PM
American tourists may not be the biggest problem, but like Dominic Cummings or SF in Belfast people obviously behaving riskily in a public way does nothing to encourage others to do their best.

Crossgar and Kerry on that list too
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 12, 2020, 02:48:34 PM
The same should happen in Ireland?

https://www.icelandair.com/en-ie/blog/iceland-eases-travel-restrictions/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 12, 2020, 05:45:57 PM

   https://www.ft.com/content/57834c2c-a078-4736-9173-8fb32cfbbf4e

   Waving half the roll in one hand, Fauci tells me the problem is that many states started opening up before their cases got down to a baseline level where new cases could easily be tracked. "I think we have to realise that some states jumped ahead of themselves. Other states did it correctly," he says. "But the citizenry didn't listen to the guidelines and they decided they were going to stay in bars and go to congregations of crowds and celebrations." 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 12, 2020, 05:46:22 PM
Yet another week over.

Deaths in the ROI  the the last 7 days = 10 (one less than last week and we had 3 days with no deaths at all this week)

Case this week 127 (36 more cases than last week but 11,000 extra tests has been carried out this week compared to last)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on July 12, 2020, 07:36:33 PM
230,000 cases globally in last 24 hours, a record.  Having managed it down to very small numbers on the island of Ireland, it's pretty stupid that we are now going to give it a second chance through air travel.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 12, 2020, 10:15:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 12, 2020, 05:45:57 PM

   https://www.ft.com/content/57834c2c-a078-4736-9173-8fb32cfbbf4e

   Waving half the roll in one hand, Fauci tells me the problem is that many states started opening up before their cases got down to a baseline level where new cases could easily be tracked. "I think we have to realise that some states jumped ahead of themselves. Other states did it correctly," he says. "But the citizenry didn't listen to the guidelines and they decided they were going to stay in bars and go to congregations of crowds and celebrations."

There are only two strategies to avoid high rates. One is to tell everyone to stay at home, the other is to have your tracking and tracing in good shape so that you identify who has it and you tell their contacts to stay at home. As for guidelines, the class of person who likes to stay in a bar all night will not listen to your advice. you need regulations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 13, 2020, 10:10:13 AM
Great work Cunny
Pubs in Ireland now open 2 weeks
Lots more testing getting done with the percentage rate of infection dropping.
What's going on?
Where is the big spike we talked about?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 13, 2020, 10:36:51 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 13, 2020, 10:10:13 AM
Great work Cunny
Pubs in Ireland now open 2 weeks
Lots more testing getting done with the percentage rate of infection dropping.
What's going on?
Where is the big spike we talked about?

Not all pubs are open and there has been an increase in numbers. Not a "big" spike, but it wouldn't be long until it was if you didn't sit on it.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 13, 2020, 12:00:35 PM
11000 extra tests done last week in the south
All sports teams back throughout Ireland with no spike happening?
Strange one
Maybe washing the hands whilst keeping your distance alongside ring fencing care homes would have been the call to make at the start
But as milltown said hindsight and all that
Wil be interesting to see the north's numbers today over the weekend
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2020, 12:09:30 PM
Could have done with a DeLorean stuff right there!  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 13, 2020, 01:37:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2020, 12:09:30 PM
Could have done with a DeLorean stuff right there!  ;D

(https://i.imgflip.com/3znn3q.jpg)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 13, 2020, 02:33:33 PM
Close the place down again. 11 people in hospital in the north
Milltown lock the kids up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 13, 2020, 03:29:23 PM
Northern Ireland: weekend update
1 additional death
16 new cases
1 case in ICU

These are 72hr figures as NI no longer does weekend updates
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 13, 2020, 06:40:39 PM
It seems some of these US places are run by Smurfy. Have a lockdown, don't have too many cases because you have a lockdown, then declare that the small number of cases (because of the lockdown) means that there isn't a problem and so let's throw open the floodgates.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 13, 2020, 06:53:29 PM
They had something like12,000 new cases in Florida yesterday  and some right wing nuts in that State are holding protests about having to wear face masks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 13, 2020, 07:31:36 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 13, 2020, 03:29:23 PM
Northern Ireland: weekend update
1 additional death
16 new cases
1 case in ICU

These are 72hr figures as NI no longer does weekend updates

Is there anywhere to find the specifics of where these cases are?

I don't know where the states goes to from here. This thing is going nowhere fast. It is going to be very problematic for the rest of the world and travel to/ from America.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 13, 2020, 08:10:29 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 13, 2020, 07:31:36 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 13, 2020, 03:29:23 PM
Northern Ireland: weekend update
1 additional death
16 new cases
1 case in ICU

These are 72hr figures as NI no longer does weekend updates

Is there anywhere to find the specifics of where these cases are?

I don't know where the states goes to from here. This thing is going nowhere fast. It is going to be very problematic for the rest of the world and travel to/ from America.

5 Belfast
3 Newry,Mourne & Down
3 Mid & East Antrim
2 Armagh,Banbridge, Craigavon
2 Ards & North Down
1 Antrim & Newtownabbey

The states is in awful mess alright will be some repair job for whoever replaces Trump.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 13, 2020, 08:17:04 PM
Cheers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 13, 2020, 09:56:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 13, 2020, 08:10:29 PM

5 Belfast
3 Newry,Mourne & Down
3 Mid & East Antrim
2 Armagh,Banbridge, Craigavon
2 Ards & North Down
1 Antrim & Newtownabbey

The states is in awful mess alright will be some repair job for whoever replaces Trump.

Even the virus doesn't want to go to Tyrone!

Meanwhile, 30 year old dies in Texas after going to Covid party. He noted before dying that perhaps it was a mistake.
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/us-man-30-dies-from-virus-after-attending-covid-19-party
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 14, 2020, 07:52:08 AM
Obviously a lie as 30 year olds do not, do not die from this 'flu', according to prof smurphy that is. Lock up the elderly (anyone over 30)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 14, 2020, 08:12:19 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 13, 2020, 09:56:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 13, 2020, 08:10:29 PM

5 Belfast
3 Newry,Mourne & Down
3 Mid & East Antrim
2 Armagh,Banbridge, Craigavon
2 Ards & North Down
1 Antrim & Newtownabbey

The states is in awful mess alright will be some repair job for whoever replaces Trump.

Even the virus doesn't want to go to Tyrone!

Meanwhile, 30 year old dies in Texas after going to Covid party. He noted before dying that perhaps it was a mistake.
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/us-man-30-dies-from-virus-after-attending-covid-19-party

Saw that one. Makes very sad reading. What do you say really :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 14, 2020, 10:09:49 AM
Where did I say that milltown
How's furlong going?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 14, 2020, 10:35:13 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 13, 2020, 09:56:45 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 13, 2020, 08:10:29 PM

5 Belfast
3 Newry,Mourne & Down
3 Mid & East Antrim
2 Armagh,Banbridge, Craigavon
2 Ards & North Down
1 Antrim & Newtownabbey

The states is in awful mess alright will be some repair job for whoever replaces Trump.

Even the virus doesn't want to go to Tyrone!

Meanwhile, 30 year old dies in Texas after going to Covid party. He noted before dying that perhaps it was a mistake.
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/us-man-30-dies-from-virus-after-attending-covid-19-party

I think it's just we are made of sterner stuff!

Not much word on the Brazilian President, I'm very interested to see what his take on it is when he comes back to action (all being well, of course).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 14, 2020, 11:30:30 AM
Tourism is being hammered. I was at Geneva airport yesterday and it was like a ghost town. People are not travelling and it is the high season.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 5times5times on July 14, 2020, 11:55:47 AM
Have many traveled to usual summer hot spots? Spain / Canaries / Portugal?  Hell of a lot cheaper than touring around Ireland atm!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 14, 2020, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 14, 2020, 10:09:49 AM
Where did I say that milltown
How's furlong going?

Who said that?
You are in total denial
Yes people can die of Covid under 50 but highly unlikely
Do you think people of 50 are immune from flu?

That's your posts above, highly unlikely, is that like one every other day or once in a blue moon?

Furlough? Been in work now 4 weeks, business doing well great bounce back so far
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 14, 2020, 01:10:26 PM
Number of deaths due to COVID-19 by age-group, England and Wales, deaths occurring in May 2020
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales)

<1        0
01-04   0
05-09   0
10-14   1
15-19   1
20-24   3
25-29   7
30-34   11
35-39   12
40-44   41
45-49   64
50-54   107
55-59   215
60-64   320
65-69   430
70-74   790
75-79   1243
80-84  1929
85-89   2368
90+     2814
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 14, 2020, 01:28:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 13, 2020, 09:56:45 PM
Meanwhile, 30 year old dies in Texas after going to Covid party. He noted before dying that perhaps it was a mistake.
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/us-man-30-dies-from-virus-after-attending-covid-19-party

Darwin awards.


f**k him. Who knows how many others that didn't make such a stupid decision that he has infected.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 14, 2020, 02:10:21 PM
It's hard to believe the level of stupidity Yanks can descend to.
Then again something like 140m of them voted for the Thing in the White House ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 14, 2020, 02:18:08 PM
Think as we turn to the Autumn / Winter, we really need to start tightening up our death registrar. as in, I hate the term "second wave", it's so sensationalised. It's not like it's ever going to fully go away....despite Ireland being relatively clear of it right now.

The Flu v Covid thing is going to rattle on as we get closer to Winter, we've been through the debate at the very start....similar enough symptoms, very different virus.

But people, especially the older are going to continue to die - that's just nature, unfortunately the winter increases weakness, but we really should try and make a great distinction between those who maybe have died naturally with covid or flu than dying from it. The seasonal flu is going to cause hell, journalists will be rubbing their hands at the cheap headlines ahead. 

If we could maybe implement something that prevents labelling any death in the elderly with a mild cough or some kind of symptom as immediate covid (until such time a test proves it was present). At the moment, the death certificate being able to be completed and cause of death simply unquestioned Covid-19 is simply unacceptable. I think its fair to say that mass Post Mortems are simply not going to happen this coming Winter but I do feel, now that we have more information and details that 'Cause of Death' really needs to be tightened up on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 14, 2020, 02:18:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 14, 2020, 02:10:21 PM
It's hard to believe the level of stupidity Yanks can descend to.
Then again something like 140m of them voted for the Thing in the White House ::)

The Greatest Democracy on the Planet only gives you two choices I'm afraid.....strange country.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on July 14, 2020, 02:54:20 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 14, 2020, 02:18:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 14, 2020, 02:10:21 PM
It's hard to believe the level of stupidity Yanks can descend to.
Then again something like 140m of them voted for the Thing in the White House ::)

The Greatest Democracy on the Planet only gives you two choices I'm afraid.....strange country.

And they're the ones the Billionaires choose/buy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on July 14, 2020, 03:58:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 01:10:26 PM
Number of deaths due to COVID-19 by age-group, England and Wales, deaths occurring in May 2020
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales)

<1        0
01-04   0
05-09   0
10-14   1
15-19   1
20-24   3
25-29   7
30-34   11
35-39   12
40-44   41
45-49   64
50-54   107
55-59   215
60-64   320
65-69   430
70-74   790
75-79   1243
80-84  1929
85-89   2368
90+     2814

And you do realise the ones that died aged 60 to 90 probably picked the virus up from someone much younger?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 14, 2020, 04:34:50 PM
But where did I say it didn't affect under 50?
Highly unlikely that people die from lightning but it happens
Where did I say it doesn't  affect?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 14, 2020, 04:51:39 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 14, 2020, 03:58:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 01:10:26 PM
Number of deaths due to COVID-19 by age-group, England and Wales, deaths occurring in May 2020
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales)

<1        0
01-04   0
05-09   0
10-14   1
15-19   1
20-24   3
25-29   7
30-34   11
35-39   12
40-44   41
45-49   64
50-54   107
55-59   215
60-64   320
65-69   430
70-74   790
75-79   1243
80-84  1929
85-89   2368
90+     2814

And you do realise the ones that died aged 60 to 90 probably picked the virus up from someone much younger?

Did they? Where? At a teenage disco? Maybe when they've been working in Schools as Teachers? Maybe it's all those kids serving in Garden centres up and down the country?
Blaming young people and children for spreading this disease isn't very fair.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on July 14, 2020, 05:12:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 04:51:39 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 14, 2020, 03:58:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 01:10:26 PM
Number of deaths due to COVID-19 by age-group, England and Wales, deaths occurring in May 2020
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales)

<1        0
01-04   0
05-09   0
10-14   1
15-19   1
20-24   3
25-29   7
30-34   11
35-39   12
40-44   41
45-49   64
50-54   107
55-59   215
60-64   320
65-69   430
70-74   790
75-79   1243
80-84  1929
85-89   2368
90+     2814

And you do realise the ones that died aged 60 to 90 probably picked the virus up from someone much younger?

Did they? Where? At a teenage disco? Maybe when they've been working in Schools as Teachers? Maybe it's all those kids serving in Garden centres up and down the country?
Blaming young people and children for spreading this disease isn't very fair.

Not blaming anyone. Giving you a better understanding of how this virus works/spreads.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 14, 2020, 06:21:41 PM
32 cases in the South today
Lots of tourists getting it
Imagine another lockdown later in the yea whilst the Americans walk about freely
The North cases below 5 every day
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 14, 2020, 06:38:51 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 14, 2020, 06:21:41 PM
32 cases in the South today
Lots of tourists getting it
Imagine another lockdown later in the yea whilst the Americans walk about freely
The North cases below 5 every day

I'd say a good few of those cases reported today are from yesterday and Sunday. A weekend lag on reported cases has happened before.

7 day average is 1 death a day in the ROI and the last 3 days had no deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 14, 2020, 08:00:23 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 14, 2020, 06:21:41 PM
32 cases in the South today
Lots of tourists getting it
Imagine another lockdown later in the yea whilst the Americans walk about freely
The North cases below 5 every day

are the North testing the contacts, or are they adopting a British stiff upper lip?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 14, 2020, 10:12:52 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 14, 2020, 05:12:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 04:51:39 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 14, 2020, 03:58:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 01:10:26 PM
Number of deaths due to COVID-19 by age-group, England and Wales, deaths occurring in May 2020
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales)

<1        0
01-04   0
05-09   0
10-14   1
15-19   1
20-24   3
25-29   7
30-34   11
35-39   12
40-44   41
45-49   64
50-54   107
55-59   215
60-64   320
65-69   430
70-74   790
75-79   1243
80-84  1929
85-89   2368
90+     2814

And you do realise the ones that died aged 60 to 90 probably picked the virus up from someone much younger?

Did they? Where? At a teenage disco? Maybe when they've been working in Schools as Teachers? Maybe it's all those kids serving in Garden centres up and down the country?
Blaming young people and children for spreading this disease isn't very fair.

Not blaming anyone. Giving you a better understanding of how this virus works/spreads.

You literally said they probably picked the virus up from someone much younger.
Is that not blaming young people? You literally said that.

Questions
How did these young people infect these older persons?
How do you know who infected them?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 14, 2020, 10:13:56 PM
It's almost two weeks since we saw mass gathering at those funerals in Belfast. Has there been a spike does anyone know?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 14, 2020, 10:21:10 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 10:13:56 PM
It's almost two weeks since we saw mass gathering at those funerals in Belfast. Has there been a spike does anyone know?

Would you be concerned if there was?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 14, 2020, 10:22:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 14, 2020, 10:21:10 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 10:13:56 PM
It's almost two weeks since we saw mass gathering at those funerals in Belfast. Has there been a spike does anyone know?

Would you be concerned if there was?

Yes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 14, 2020, 10:22:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 10:13:56 PM
It's almost two weeks since we saw mass gathering at those funerals in Belfast. Has there been a spike does anyone know?

Is it not difficult to contract covid in outdoor non covered spaces?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 14, 2020, 10:30:04 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 14, 2020, 10:22:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 10:13:56 PM
It's almost two weeks since we saw mass gathering at those funerals in Belfast. Has there been a spike does anyone know?

Is it not difficult to contract covid in outdoor non covered spaces?

They were trying to say it magically floated in the air there at one stage last week. I reserve judgement on that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on July 14, 2020, 10:43:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 10:12:52 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 14, 2020, 05:12:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 04:51:39 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 14, 2020, 03:58:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 01:10:26 PM
Number of deaths due to COVID-19 by age-group, England and Wales, deaths occurring in May 2020
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales)

<1        0
01-04   0
05-09   0
10-14   1
15-19   1
20-24   3
25-29   7
30-34   11
35-39   12
40-44   41
45-49   64
50-54   107
55-59   215
60-64   320
65-69   430
70-74   790
75-79   1243
80-84  1929
85-89   2368
90+     2814

And you do realise the ones that died aged 60 to 90 probably picked the virus up from someone much younger?

Did they? Where? At a teenage disco? Maybe when they've been working in Schools as Teachers? Maybe it's all those kids serving in Garden centres up and down the country?
Blaming young people and children for spreading this disease isn't very fair.

Not blaming anyone. Giving you a better understanding of how this virus works/spreads.

You literally said they probably picked the virus up from someone much younger.
Is that not blaming young people? You literally said that.

Questions
How did these young people infect these older persons?
How do you know who infected them?

The vast majority of older people was either cocooning at home or in care settings. It's not a blame game younger people can get it without knowing and pass it on to someone more vulnerable.




Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 14, 2020, 10:47:45 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 14, 2020, 10:43:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 10:12:52 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 14, 2020, 05:12:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 04:51:39 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 14, 2020, 03:58:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 01:10:26 PM
Number of deaths due to COVID-19 by age-group, England and Wales, deaths occurring in May 2020
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales)

<1        0
01-04   0
05-09   0
10-14   1
15-19   1
20-24   3
25-29   7
30-34   11
35-39   12
40-44   41
45-49   64
50-54   107
55-59   215
60-64   320
65-69   430
70-74   790
75-79   1243
80-84  1929
85-89   2368
90+     2814

And you do realise the ones that died aged 60 to 90 probably picked the virus up from someone much younger?

Did they? Where? At a teenage disco? Maybe when they've been working in Schools as Teachers? Maybe it's all those kids serving in Garden centres up and down the country?
Blaming young people and children for spreading this disease isn't very fair.

Not blaming anyone. Giving you a better understanding of how this virus works/spreads.

You literally said they probably picked the virus up from someone much younger.
Is that not blaming young people? You literally said that.

Questions
How did these young people infect these older persons?
How do you know who infected them?

The vast majority of older people was either cocooning at home or in care settings. It's not a blame game younger people can get it without knowing and pass it on to someone more vulnerable.

Yeah whatever. Young people didn't infect all those over 70 who died no matter what you say.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on July 14, 2020, 11:11:16 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 10:47:45 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 14, 2020, 10:43:28 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 10:12:52 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 14, 2020, 05:12:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 04:51:39 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 14, 2020, 03:58:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 01:10:26 PM
Number of deaths due to COVID-19 by age-group, England and Wales, deaths occurring in May 2020
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales)

<1        0
01-04   0
05-09   0
10-14   1
15-19   1
20-24   3
25-29   7
30-34   11
35-39   12
40-44   41
45-49   64
50-54   107
55-59   215
60-64   320
65-69   430
70-74   790
75-79   1243
80-84  1929
85-89   2368
90+     2814

And you do realise the ones that died aged 60 to 90 probably picked the virus up from someone much younger?

Did they? Where? At a teenage disco? Maybe when they've been working in Schools as Teachers? Maybe it's all those kids serving in Garden centres up and down the country?
Blaming young people and children for spreading this disease isn't very fair.

Not blaming anyone. Giving you a better understanding of how this virus works/spreads.

You literally said they probably picked the virus up from someone much younger.
Is that not blaming young people? You literally said that.

Questions
How did these young people infect these older persons?
How do you know who infected them?

The vast majority of older people was either cocooning at home or in care settings. It's not a blame game younger people can get it without knowing and pass it on to someone more vulnerable.

Yeah whatever. Young people didn't infect all those over 70 who died no matter what you say.

It only takes 1 infection to spread and form a cluster in a care home setting.   I don't expect you to heed what anyone says that's different from your own beliefs and that avatar image of yours is very appropriate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 15, 2020, 09:16:09 AM
Someone was saying to me that the crossgar/ ballynahinch "cluster" came from a house party with a care home worker at it. That went into double figures. (They are both meant to have originated from the same place)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 15, 2020, 09:20:08 AM
The South may not fully move to phase 4
Pubs are at risk of not opening
A big kick in the stones to all who have stuck to the rules
Let the tourists walk free
Also the age of the people getting it is low
Good sign that at least
Thoughts
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 15, 2020, 10:09:43 AM
Just saw a post on social media saying the Obituaries in a Heuston newspaper run to 43 pages.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 15, 2020, 12:52:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 15, 2020, 10:09:43 AM
Just saw a post on social media saying the Obituaries in a Heuston newspaper run to 43 pages.

Officially 3,200 deaths in Texas total, so I suspect this is one of those myths that was doing the rounds. Quick google of Texas population is 29 million as of 2019.

*Edit, the 43 pages was for the deaths of each of the above 3,200.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on July 15, 2020, 01:02:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 15, 2020, 10:09:43 AM
Just saw a post on social media saying the Obituaries in a Heuston newspaper run to 43 pages.

Was it Karen that posted that ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on July 15, 2020, 01:18:24 PM
Initial positive results on Vaccine

https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/peerreview-confirms-covid19-vaccine-stimulates-antibodies-for-first-time/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on July 15, 2020, 04:38:10 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/15/coronavirus-contracts-government-transparency-pandemic

Open corruption at the heart of British government, awarding contracts to Tory donors and mates of Johnson and Cummings often in spite of no ability to complete the contract. Incredible stuff.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 15, 2020, 04:40:14 PM
Recap
1% positivity rate on all tested in the North
0.3% in the South

And astonishing as it sounds in May in England of every 10000 tested only 13 were positive
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 15, 2020, 08:29:21 PM
Quote from: Rudi on July 15, 2020, 01:02:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 15, 2020, 10:09:43 AM
Just saw a post on social media saying the Obituaries in a Heuston newspaper run to 43 pages.

Was it Karen that posted that ;D

That's lol from me
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 15, 2020, 09:05:40 PM
Phase 4 in the ROI that was due to happen on Monday is now pushed back to August 10th. A knock on effect for gaa club action especially supporters.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 15, 2020, 09:20:04 PM
It's been over 2 weeks now since Merseyside celebrated the title after the City defeat. We were told they had a high R rate. Very positive news there's been no larger rise in the City since.

Without getting too complacent, you would have to be very positive now after these kinds of things happening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 15, 2020, 09:39:36 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 15, 2020, 04:40:14 PM
And astonishing as it sounds in May in England of every 10000 tested only 13 were positive

As your hero Donald would say, this looks like fake news.
There were around 100,000 cases in England in May, so this level of positivity would have required something like 7 million  tests, but the testing thing hadn't really ramped up in May.

So let us have your source.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 15, 2020, 09:50:03 PM
#smurfynews
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 15, 2020, 09:50:45 PM
Well they done 125000 tests on May the 1st and 255000 on May 31st
So they had it ramped up
Blaming the pubs for a few extra cases is crazy. Pubs get the blame and them not even open
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on July 15, 2020, 10:02:20 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 15, 2020, 09:50:45 PM
Well they done 125000 tests on May the 1st and 255000 on May 31st
So they had it ramped up
Blaming the pubs for a few extra cases is crazy. Pubs get the blame and them not even open

They are open, some that are allowed to be and some that are not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 15, 2020, 10:35:59 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 15, 2020, 09:50:03 PM
#smurfynews

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXi0__iuJaD5uIKjb5fsT2g
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 15, 2020, 11:28:39 PM
Seems our R rate in the 26 has gone up to between 1.2 and 1.8.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 15, 2020, 11:40:54 PM
The magic R Rate.
Low and behold no hospital admissions in a week
No ICU admissions in a week
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 16, 2020, 12:43:07 AM
A combination of a knee jerk reaction and Micheál Martin new in the hotseat wanting to show some leadership.

IMO phase 4 should have gone ahead as planned. Any problems then go back to phase 3 if required.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 16, 2020, 01:26:56 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 16, 2020, 12:43:07 AM
A combination of a knee jerk reaction and Micheál Martin new in the hotseat wanting to show some leadership.

IMO phase 4 should have gone ahead as planned. Any problems then go back to phase 3 if required.

You cannot rationally reduce restrictions when cases are increasing, unless you are an American.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 16, 2020, 01:55:35 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 16, 2020, 01:26:56 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 16, 2020, 12:43:07 AM
A combination of a knee jerk reaction and Micheál Martin new in the hotseat wanting to show some leadership.

IMO phase 4 should have gone ahead as planned. Any problems then go back to phase 3 if required.

You cannot rationally reduce restrictions when cases are increasing, unless you are an American.
Unlike America we haven't seen any significant rise in cases.

Clusters like the one in Kerry recently can cause somewhat of artificial increase in the R rate,  In Germany the meat plant outbreak caused their R value to shoot up above 2, but its way down again since getting  that outbreak under control.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 16, 2020, 08:10:11 AM
I would agree with this.

I would like to see more fact based news on the whole thing. There were x cases - this is where they were and this was the origin of them. I think that would keep everyone considerably more informed to make their own decisions.

If only for example someone like a health minister would stand up and tell the truth >:(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 16, 2020, 09:28:14 AM
The Kerry cluster was people having a party, there are still people doing this. It us not obviously as isolated a case as a meat plant under the control of an employer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 16, 2020, 10:37:40 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 16, 2020, 08:10:11 AM
I would agree with this.

I would like to see more fact based news on the whole thing. There were x cases - this is where they were and this was the origin of them. I think that would keep everyone considerably more informed to make their own decisions.

If only for example someone like a health minister would stand up and tell the truth >:(

Telling the truth, unfortunately, is political suicide these days. Strange times..better to say 10 lines of waffle than 10 words of truth.

Covid has come with a lot of sensationalism, too many people are repeating numbers or things read somewhere with no evidence to really back it up and taking it as gospel despite not knowing the true reason why it's being put out there.

Things like R rate and the likes, when someone quotes an R rate they are really saying - "I'm taking a bit of a guess here".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 16, 2020, 10:43:23 AM
You are 75% more likely to die of Covid if you are a male retail worker or 60% more likely if you are a female according to Hancock. Source the national institute of statistics. The source has no specifics on any such thing.

If only it was just waffle and not lies.

Yeah agreed on all the guess stuff and sensationalism.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on July 16, 2020, 10:51:10 AM
Having a party in a meat plant would be some clusterfcuk.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 16, 2020, 11:05:35 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 16, 2020, 10:51:10 AM
Having a party in a meat plant would be some clusterfcuk.

You'd have lovely burgers though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 16, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Meanwhile the heroes in Stormont have decided to do this mid Pandemic.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-53429661

I dunno lads. I just don't know. This thing is either serious or it's not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on July 16, 2020, 11:44:38 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 16, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Meanwhile the heroes in Stormont have decided to do this mid Pandemic.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-53429661

I dunno lads. I just don't know. This thing is either serious or it's not.

It won't be implemented til next year.

Personally I'm no fan of extended licensing hours. If pubs close at 11, they get busy at 7. If pubs close at 2, they get busy at 11. The only difference is that the pubs pay more out in wages, and patrons can't get out of bed the next morning.

But that said, this has been a decade in the making and it's better to know that Stormont is still sort-of-functioning.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on July 16, 2020, 11:57:32 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 16, 2020, 11:44:38 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 16, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Meanwhile the heroes in Stormont have decided to do this mid Pandemic.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-53429661

I dunno lads. I just don't know. This thing is either serious or it's not.

It won't be implemented til next year.

Personally I'm no fan of extended licensing hours. If pubs close at 11, they get busy at 7. If pubs close at 2, they get busy at 11. The only difference is that the pubs pay more out in wages, and patrons can't get out of bed the next morning.

But that said, this has been a decade in the making and it's better to know that Stormont is still sort-of-functioning.

Hopefully it stops the "last orders at the bar" stampede and subsequent binge to get it horsed into you before getting bucked out but probably won't as most will just drink a bit longer in their homes and still do that, but an hour later.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 16, 2020, 12:30:22 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 16, 2020, 11:57:32 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 16, 2020, 11:44:38 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 16, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Meanwhile the heroes in Stormont have decided to do this mid Pandemic.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-53429661

I dunno lads. I just don't know. This thing is either serious or it's not.

It won't be implemented til next year.

Personally I'm no fan of extended licensing hours. If pubs close at 11, they get busy at 7. If pubs close at 2, they get busy at 11. The only difference is that the pubs pay more out in wages, and patrons can't get out of bed the next morning.

But that said, this has been a decade in the making and it's better to know that Stormont is still sort-of-functioning.

Hopefully it stops the "last orders at the bar" stampede and subsequent binge to get it horsed into you before getting bucked out but probably won't as most will just drink a bit longer in their homes and still do that, but an hour later.

If it tidies up the stupid Easter hours and helps tourism and the economy then there is nothing not to like.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on July 16, 2020, 03:00:33 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 16, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Meanwhile the heroes in Stormont have decided to do this mid Pandemic.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-53429661

I dunno lads. I just don't know. This thing is either serious or it's not.

To be fair I think that is a great job. All it does is bring the laws in line with other areas. This virus will not last forever so law making and changing should go on. The implementation of such laws can be delayed if necessary to combat the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 16, 2020, 03:17:04 PM
Agreed. Been a long time coming. I'm just sorry I'm too old to avail :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 16, 2020, 06:49:32 PM
20 cases a day the 7 day average and we had 21 cases today in the ROI.

Positivity rate remains very very low and its very difficult to accurately estimate reproduction number. Two quotes from Prof Nolan this evening. Meanwhile the scaremongering continues on RTÉ.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 16, 2020, 10:24:00 PM
16 cases today in the 6 counties, that's a brave few, more than Italy pro rate. China only has 1 case.
This thing is not going away.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 16, 2020, 10:28:41 PM
No and it wasnt really going to.
All we can hope for is keeping it "flattened" and try to live around it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on July 16, 2020, 11:11:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 16, 2020, 10:28:41 PM
No and it wasnt really going to.
All we can hope for is keeping it "flattened" and try to live around it.

With everything hopefully open by August 10th I really can't see the cases getting much lower than they currently are and Martin and Co will need to realise that than needlessly going into panic mode again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 17, 2020, 12:49:05 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 16, 2020, 11:11:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 16, 2020, 10:28:41 PM
No and it wasnt really going to.
All we can hope for is keeping it "flattened" and try to live around it.

With everything hopefully open by August 10th I really can't see the cases getting much lower than they currently are and Martin and Co will need to realise that than needlessly going into panic mode again.

Not getting much lower is one thing, increasing is another.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general on July 17, 2020, 01:25:55 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gaelic-games/53434799

8 clubs in Derry suspended due to Covid

I work for a company with HQ in Derry region - here today its the talk of the place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on July 17, 2020, 02:12:57 PM
19 new cases in the north today.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on July 17, 2020, 02:20:33 PM
Quote from: Rois on July 17, 2020, 02:12:57 PM
19 new cases in the north today.

That only tells part of the story.

How many are hospitalised per day and how many are in ICU could tell us more of the actual impact the rise in cases is having.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on July 17, 2020, 02:21:51 PM
So England have been making a balls of their death figures, counting people that had a positive test and then could have died from natural causes a few months later.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2020, 02:25:52 PM
Quote from: Rois on July 17, 2020, 02:12:57 PM
19 new cases in the north today.

Any Westie's in that figure  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 17, 2020, 02:26:42 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on July 17, 2020, 02:21:51 PM
So England have been making a balls of their death figures, counting people that had a positive test and then could have died from natural causes a few months later.

I would imagine that's been happening worldwide truth be told.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on July 17, 2020, 02:54:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2020, 02:25:52 PM
Quote from: Rois on July 17, 2020, 02:12:57 PM
19 new cases in the north today.

Any Westie's in that figure  ;)

four...


Antrim and Newtownabbey (1)
Belfast (4)
Causeway Coast and Glens (5)
Derry and Strabane (8)
Mid and East Antrim (1)

A dirty mic at a karaoke party in Limavady it seems...

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 17, 2020, 03:02:46 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 17, 2020, 02:26:42 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on July 17, 2020, 02:21:51 PM
So England have been making a balls of their death figures, counting people that had a positive test and then could have died from natural causes a few months later.

I would imagine that's been happening worldwide truth be told.

Policies vary,  initially England certainly were not counting everyone, the excess death stats show that. They may now be doing better.
Everyone with Covid19 will die of something else in due course, should any of them be counted?


Quote from: johnnycool on July 17, 2020, 02:54:36 PM
A dirty mic at a karaoke party in Limavady it seems...

Singing is profoundly implicated in the spread of this virus, a Karaoke party was well out of order in the first place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 17, 2020, 03:23:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 17, 2020, 02:54:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2020, 02:25:52 PM
Quote from: Rois on July 17, 2020, 02:12:57 PM
19 new cases in the north today.

Any Westie's in that figure  ;)

four...


Antrim and Newtownabbey (1)
Belfast (4)
Causeway Coast and Glens (5)
Derry and Strabane (8)
Mid and East Antrim (1)

A dirty mic at a karaoke party in Limavady it seems...

Limavady is causeway coast and glens.

Bu that is big jump here in Derry to 8. Im hearing that the test centre is busy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2020, 03:24:21 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 17, 2020, 03:23:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 17, 2020, 02:54:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2020, 02:25:52 PM
Quote from: Rois on July 17, 2020, 02:12:57 PM
19 new cases in the north today.

Any Westie's in that figure  ;)

four...


Antrim and Newtownabbey (1)
Belfast (4)
Causeway Coast and Glens (5)
Derry and Strabane (8)
Mid and East Antrim (1)

A dirty mic at a karaoke party in Limavady it seems...

Limavady is causeway coast and glens.

Bu that is big jump here in Derry to 8. Im hearing that the test centre is busy

Few clubs in Derry have pulled the plug on their start dates for games this weekend
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 17, 2020, 03:30:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2020, 03:24:21 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 17, 2020, 03:23:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 17, 2020, 02:54:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2020, 02:25:52 PM
Quote from: Rois on July 17, 2020, 02:12:57 PM
19 new cases in the north today.

Any Westie's in that figure  ;)

four...


Antrim and Newtownabbey (1)
Belfast (4)
Causeway Coast and Glens (5)
Derry and Strabane (8)
Mid and East Antrim (1)

A dirty mic at a karaoke party in Limavady it seems...

Limavady is causeway coast and glens.

Bu that is big jump here in Derry to 8. Im hearing that the test centre is busy

Few clubs in Derry have pulled the plug on their start dates for games this weekend

Yeah, im hearing its linked to cluster in Limavady, precautionary. You can see from the list that they are clubs either side of Limavady.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 17, 2020, 03:58:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 17, 2020, 03:02:46 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 17, 2020, 02:26:42 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on July 17, 2020, 02:21:51 PM
So England have been making a balls of their death figures, counting people that had a positive test and then could have died from natural causes a few months later.

I would imagine that's been happening worldwide truth be told.

Policies vary,  initially England certainly were not counting everyone, the excess death stats show that. They may now be doing better.
Everyone with Covid19 will die of something else in due course, should any of them be counted?



It's a tricky call, but like most people. We hear of X thousand dead. We think...they died because of the disease. Which is becoming more and more clear, is not necessarily the actual reason (without getting into a debate over the seriousness of it and that kind of thing).

I appreciate these people are / were under immense pressure at the time of the outbreak, the admin definitely took a backseat but it's very important from here on we start to clean but the real actual cause of death of certificates.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 17, 2020, 04:56:33 PM
It'll be over by Christmas, says Boris Johnson, as long as you all wish hard enough.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 17, 2020, 06:24:42 PM
34 new cases in the 26 today :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 17, 2020, 06:51:42 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 17, 2020, 03:58:19 PM
It's a tricky call, but like most people. We hear of X thousand dead. We think...they died because of the disease. Which is becoming more and more clear, is not necessarily the actual reason (without getting into a debate over the seriousness of it and that kind of thing).

Only about 5% of people in general have had Covid19, you are not going to get a big distortion unless people who die are more likely to have it than other people and that might tell you something.

Quote from: Rossfan on July 17, 2020, 06:24:42 PM
34 new cases in the 26 today :-\

Don't tell Smurfy, he thinks the curve is flat. This curve is more like Samantha Fox than Twiggy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on July 17, 2020, 07:20:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 17, 2020, 06:24:42 PM
34 new cases in the 26 today :-\

Probably most of those in Dublin.

13 counties have not had a case in 5+ days and 19 haven't had a case in over 2 days which shows the infection rate is not widespread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 17, 2020, 07:42:09 PM
No case in Ros for nearly 2 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 17, 2020, 07:51:39 PM
According to the HSE data hub.

Tests carried out the last 24 hrs was 9512
Positive tests last 24 hrs was 26 (34 daily cases published means 8 of those cases weren't from today)

Positivity rate last 7 days is 0.3%
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 17, 2020, 07:53:26 PM
What scenarios are people tested in? Contact? Symptoms? Or is there more to it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 17, 2020, 08:37:18 PM
In the South every contact is invited to a test, some refuse. The policy in the occupied territories is less clear.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 17, 2020, 08:56:15 PM
9512 seems like a lot if it is purely those who have been exposed. I would guess there would be more than just contacts have been tested.

Not sure what they do up here though I do suspect there is some criteria for contact based testing but no idea what.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 17, 2020, 09:21:46 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 17, 2020, 08:56:15 PM
9512 seems like a lot if it is purely those who have been exposed. I would guess there would be more than just contacts have been tested.

Not sure what they do up here though I do suspect there is some criteria for contact based testing but no idea what.

Yes, there is also systematic testing of people in health occupations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 17, 2020, 09:24:20 PM
Ah that explains a bit more. Cheers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 18, 2020, 02:51:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 17, 2020, 09:24:20 PM
Ah that explains a bit more. Cheers.

stated elsewhere that they are proactively testing 32,000 care workers every week for a month.
This is a good thing, as it helps keep it out of hospitals and nursing homes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 19, 2020, 05:29:39 PM
Question on testing and quarantining

If you are in a country that requires you to isolate for 14 days when you come back, can you not have a test, let's say 4 days when you're back. Would it not tell you whether you have it or not? Or is it because you need 14 days for it to develop?



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 19, 2020, 05:48:50 PM
The numbers after another week.

Deaths in the ROI  the the last 7 days = 8 (two less than last week)

Case this week 143 (16 more than last week and that's low when you consider the R number was higher for this week and over 50,000 tests was carried out the last 7 days)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 19, 2020, 06:50:11 PM
Deaths massively over exaggerated. If you test positive at any stage 28 days before you die even if you recover and die it's recorded as a coronavirus death. In Eng there's no time limit. Government has over inflated this for some reason!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 19, 2020, 09:45:39 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/07/18/london-ponders-future-pandemic-turns-capital-ghost-town/

London ponders its future as pandemic turns capital into a ghost town

A deeper downturn and slower recovery mean that the capital's post-Covid economy may look very different

ByTom Rees18 July 2020 • 6:00am




It's catastrophic. No audience, no income," says James Williams, chief executive of the Shaftesbury Theatre in the West End.

Its production of '& Juliet' is postponed indefinitely, almost all its staff are furloughed and Williams says the local economy is suffering from the curtain temporarily falling on Theatreland this summer.

"For every £1 spent on a theatre seat in the West End, £5 is spent in the local economy, so the theatres are a critical part to the success of central London." Local businesses need the West End's theatres to "come back to life", he says.

Nearby in Victoria – a transport hub for both commuters and visitors flying into Gatwick – a row of shops catering to tourists are almost all vacant and the train station is suffering from the collapse in foreign arrivals. And in the City, the usual buzz of finance workers are conspicuous by their absence in the pubs, cafés and restaurants.

"We would not have any business if the office workers don't come back to the City," says Lauren MacDougall, manager of craft beer house the Pelt Trader as she still waits to reopen.

"Knowing the City, people will always want to drink and socialise. It's going to be a slow process getting back to the 'normal days' but it will get back to normal."

The cultural, tourism and business capital of Britain, central London's economy has been a victim of its own success in virus-stricken industries.

A plethora of live growth signals tracked by economists reveals central London has transformed from the country's economic powerhouse to a ghost town devoid of activity. It is suffering a deeper downturn and slower recovery than all other towns and cities in the UK and capitals in Europe.

Last week footfall in central London was down 73pc compared to a year earlier, worse than anywhere in the UK, according to Springboard. The UK average was 52pc lower than last year, while outer London is down a more modest 38pc. Separate footfall data suggests it is also recovering slower than anywhere else.

Movement of people and vehicles in cities – a measure tracked by economists for hints of activity – is much lower in London than any other European capital, Citymapper data suggests, while restaurant bookings were down 82pc on Tuesday compared to 66pc lower in the UK as a whole and up 3pc in Germany, OpenTable reveals.

"Because there is a very vibrant tourism, hospitality and leisure industry, it has a disproportionately high number of such businesses in central London, more than any other part of the country," warns Rajesh Agrawal, deputy mayor of London for business. He says more support is needed for the firms and believes the winding down of the furlough scheme disproportionately affects London.

"In Canary Wharf, 120,000 people work there but only 7,000 are coming in. So what do you think is going to happen to the small bars and the restaurants?"

The economic activity generated in London is equivalent to the output of Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the North East and Yorkshire combined. It would be just outside the world's top 20 economies if it were an independent country, and in central London around 10pc of the country's output is generated in just 0.01pc of its land, according to the Centre for London, the think tank.

A city so reliant on international visitors, its public transport infrastructure and millions of office workers has proven to be ultra-vulnerable to a pandemic. Stopping the flow of people from the suburbs and abroad has brought activity to a complete halt.

A high street recovery tracker by Centre for Cities looking at footfall suggests that London is suffering the slowest recovery in the entire country. Smaller and often more deprived towns where office work is less important have seen the most rapid return to normality, including Basildon, Burnley and Doncaster.

"The recovery in London is not about shops reopening, it's about offices reopening, visitors coming back to this country from overseas and it is about public transport being perceived as safe and accessible," says Andrew Carter, chief executive of Centre for Cities.

The trends that have paralysed the city's economy are "evident in other places but it is the extreme nature of it" in London, Carter says.

"80pc of London's workforce coming into its central business district do so by public transport, in other cities it's around the 50pc mark.

"London is a global destination for international tourists, Manchester is not to the same degree."

The natives are also less likely to need to commute into the centre, given the prevalence of service sector jobs done almost entirely on computers. Some 57pc of Londoners were working from home in April, well above any other region and the UK average of 47pc, according to the Office for National Statistics.

London's reliance on an overcrowded transport system means offices cannot bring workers back even if they can make their sites safe. Tube journeys are around a fifth of their normal levels, according to Transport for London data.

Some fear a temporary loss in the capital's output could become permanent, if Covid-19 leads to a move towards remote working, or the failure to produce a vaccine means annual spikes in infections. The post-Covid economy could look very different from its pre-pandemic shape and to the detriment of the capital's centre.

A remote working revolution would lead to much less office space being needed and less workers travelling in from London's suburbs and surrounding counties.

Richard Tice, property veteran and Brexit Party chairman, warns the virtual abandonment of the city centre could cut office rents by as much as 40pc over the next 18 months with retail rents even harder hit.

"It is dire. Places have reopened and then shut again as there is no footfall. I have spoken to dozens of office workers who say they don't have to come back until the new year."

An increase in remote working could make many city centre businesses unsustainable and push those services out to the suburbs as workers move.

Others remain optimistic that central London's economy can adapt to the new normal, however. Eventually City workers will flock to the pubs, travellers will buzz through Victoria and the bright lights of the West End will return. How long it will take and whether pre-virus activity levels ever return remains uncertain.

Agrawal says: "When we talk about the recovery, it's not just about going back to the old normal. We need to reimagine what our city of the future might look like."

Richard Brown, deputy director at Centre for London, says firms reducing their office space will allow new entrants to move in.

"In previous recessions, the area around Hoxton and Shoreditch, a lot of vacant property arose there and you had creative industries moving in. The case is still there for big cities like London but it will be different."

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 19, 2020, 10:44:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 19, 2020, 06:50:11 PM
Deaths massively over exaggerated. If you test positive at any stage 28 days before you die even if you recover and die it's recorded as a coronavirus death. In Eng there's no time limit. Government has over inflated this for some reason!

The ROI are one of the few countries that follow WHO guidelines and that means to include every type of deaths. England for months were only counting hospital deaths so I don't buy their claim that their overall death toll is exaggerated by much if at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 20, 2020, 09:02:10 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53467022

I don't really trust BB-Pravda for my information anymore... but have verified this elsewhere.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on July 20, 2020, 09:09:18 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 20, 2020, 09:02:10 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53467022

I don't really trust BB-Pravda for my information anymore... but have verified this elsewhere.

If this proves correct Radio how far away are we from actually having a vaccine distributed to the people on the ground?

Thought I read somewhere we could still be a year away even if these current trials are successful
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 20, 2020, 09:53:40 AM
That is a treatment, not a vaccine.

(Assuming no hiccups) vaccine will be some time in 2021. Probably later than earlier - all shortcuts are being taken - and there is a degree of risk with it - and I'm kind of dismayed that conversation doesn't seem to be happening. All talk is of the date and not of the compromises taken to try and achieve that date. Its like "we're trying to get a vaccine for XX/XX/XXX", then when it arrives casually announce after people start taking it "oh, by the way, we've no idea of the long term effects of this".

Yes fine, the vaccine is likely the better option - but at least let people know so they aren't walking in blind and have time to get their head around it.


For those in the general population that are low risk - I have to admit I'm not sure if taking a rushed vaccine is a great idea or not. Because clinical trials have been so compressed, there is simply no way of knowing if there are longer term implications or not.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that.


Obviously for those at high risk, that balancing act changes and the vaccine is a bit of a no-brainer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 20, 2020, 10:03:58 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 19, 2020, 10:44:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 19, 2020, 06:50:11 PM
Deaths massively over exaggerated. If you test positive at any stage 28 days before you die even if you recover and die it's recorded as a coronavirus death. In Eng there's no time limit. Government has over inflated this for some reason!

The ROI are one of the few countries that follow WHO guidelines and that means to include every type of deaths. England for months were only counting hospital deaths so I don't buy their claim that their overall death toll is exaggerated by much if at all.

I don't know that you can trust much reported in the uk, England especially, these days :( yeah I think there is misinformation both ways in the recording of it.

I watched the bbc briefly this morning and they said early next year. Like has been said I probably wouldn't be rushing for it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on July 20, 2020, 10:15:24 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 20, 2020, 09:53:40 AM
That is a treatment, not a vaccine.

(Assuming no hiccups) vaccine will be some time in 2021. Probably later than earlier - all shortcuts are being taken - and there is a degree of risk with it - and I'm kind of dismayed that conversation doesn't seem to be happening. All talk is of the date and not of the compromises taken to try and achieve that date. Its like "we're trying to get a vaccine for XX/XX/XXX", then when it arrives casually announce after people start taking it "oh, by the way, we've no idea of the long term effects of this".

Yes fine, the vaccine is likely the better option - but at least let people know so they aren't walking in blind and have time to get their head around it.


For those in the general population that are low risk - I have to admit I'm not sure if taking a rushed vaccine is a great idea or not. Because clinical trials have been so compressed, there is simply no way of knowing if there are longer term implications or not.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that.


Obviously for those at high risk, that balancing act changes and the vaccine is a bit of a no-brainer.

Just clicked on link - yes a treatment - think the vaccine was at Oxford last week
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 20, 2020, 10:56:05 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/matt-williams-two-weeks-in-a-hotel-room-with-a-broom-handle-shoved-up-your-nose-1.4306336

Recent reports from the BBC describe the pitiful state of a medical system close to collapse in the South African city of Port Elizabeth, the home of the Southern Kings. As the virus rips across South Africa, the participation of the Kings and the Cheetahs in the Pro 14 is highly problematic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 20, 2020, 02:02:21 PM
Paula Bradshaw from the Green Party (up north) taking some flak today. She was going to go on her Italian holiday until the media got hold of it now obviously was never going to go lol.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 20, 2020, 02:06:15 PM
That's a bit sad really though, gutter press. I mean if she goes on holidays, does everything right, what's the problem?

I'd much rather they held the Politicians up North accountable for their repeated political failings as opposed to a woman away to get her head showered.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on July 20, 2020, 02:06:31 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 20, 2020, 02:02:21 PM
Paula Bradshaw from the Green Party (up north) taking some flak today. She was going to go on her Italian holiday until the media got hold of it now obviously was never going to go lol.

The holier than though Alliance getting a bit of flack for once..

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 20, 2020, 02:18:10 PM
Oops alliance of course. Yeah I like them mostly but there's the odd thing they do I am not too sure of. This would be one of them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 20, 2020, 02:41:37 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 20, 2020, 02:02:21 PM
Paula Bradshaw from the Green Party (up north) taking some flak today. She was going to go on her Italian holiday until the media got hold of it now obviously was never going to go lol.

Well done the media. Bunch of f**kwits going on about it now when the horse has bolted, foaled, been loaded onto the back of a lorry, through a meat factory and on someones dinner plate.


Why were they not up in arms about the govt continuing to allow schools to go on skiing holidays to Italy in March?  ::) Wankers.

[BTW - of course she shouldn't go - international travel should be shutdown at the moment - do the idiots think that the coronavirus paddled its own canoe across the Irish sea to get here to start with?]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 20, 2020, 02:53:22 PM
Oxford for the win -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53469839
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on July 20, 2020, 04:44:07 PM
Any news on pubs in the north opening?? Ordinary pubs ,  not where you have to buy a crap burger to stay...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on July 20, 2020, 09:50:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 19, 2020, 05:29:39 PM
Question on testing and quarantining

If you are in a country that requires you to isolate for 14 days when you come back, can you not have a test, let's say 4 days when you're back. Would it not tell you whether you have it or not? Or is it because you need 14 days for it to develop?
What's the procedure when you return to Belfast from such a country? Don't you fill out a form on arrival giving details and enter into a volutary quarantine?
In theory if you had testing (sub-contracted but subsidised) at the airport with results inside an hour, test negative,  then you enter into quarantine for 4 or 5 days and have a follow up test, when that comes in negative, you should be 99.999% good to go. But in the UK and Ireland,  results take an age to come back. 


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2020, 11:22:01 PM

Let's say you fly back from the USA, you quarantine for 14 days, the reason for quarantining that length of time is why?

Does the time of catching it and a positive result not show for 14 days?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 20, 2020, 11:40:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2020, 11:22:01 PM

Let's say you fly back from the USA, you quarantine for 14 days, the reason for quarantining that length of time is why?

Does the time of catching it and a positive result not show for 14 days?

14 days is a bit longer than the average time it takes for symptoms to show (assuming you do show symptoms).

If you have a test, it should show a positive earlier than that - not sure how much earlier.


As usual, the govt have hacked it together out of various bits of information without really understanding what it means, what they are doing and what they are trying to achieve.

There probably should be two options for quarantine:
(1) Quarantine for 14 days if you don't get a test.
(2) Quarantine for 7* days then after a false test you are free to go.

*7 days may be adjusted depending on confidence in test picking up a firm result after X days from infection.



But again, as I said before - far easier to keep the airports shut for a few months and ride this out with a functioning internal economy than to try and be too cute and end up needing more lockdowns.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 21, 2020, 10:01:30 AM
Quote from: Dire Ear on July 20, 2020, 04:44:07 PM
Any news on pubs in the north opening?? Ordinary pubs ,  not where you have to buy a crap burger to stay...

Not sure what bars you go to but majority of menus are for show.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on July 21, 2020, 10:49:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2020, 11:22:01 PM

Let's say you fly back from the USA, you quarantine for 14 days, the reason for quarantining that length of time is why?

Does the time of catching it and a positive result not show for 14 days?
I think the early information was that symptoms would not show for 5-14 days after transmission.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 11:03:06 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 21, 2020, 10:01:30 AM
Quote from: Dire Ear on July 20, 2020, 04:44:07 PM
Any news on pubs in the north opening?? Ordinary pubs ,  not where you have to buy a crap burger to stay...

Not sure what bars you go to but majority of menus are for show.

Both sides of the border they need to close any pubs acting the maggot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 21, 2020, 11:18:07 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 21, 2020, 11:03:06 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 21, 2020, 10:01:30 AM
Quote from: Dire Ear on July 20, 2020, 04:44:07 PM
Any news on pubs in the north opening?? Ordinary pubs ,  not where you have to buy a crap burger to stay...

Not sure what bars you go to but majority of menus are for show.

Both sides of the border they need to close any pubs acting the maggot.

Fair enough, but it's either do it half regulated, or see the rise of forest raves or drinking shebeens. I prefer the former.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on July 21, 2020, 11:25:06 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 20, 2020, 11:40:26 PM

But again, as I said before - far easier to keep the airports shut for a few months and ride this out with a functioning internal economy than to try and be too cute and end up needing more lockdowns.

You can't have a functioning internal economy if the airports are shut.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 12:02:51 PM
Quote from: five points on July 21, 2020, 11:25:06 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 20, 2020, 11:40:26 PM

But again, as I said before - far easier to keep the airports shut for a few months and ride this out with a functioning internal economy than to try and be too cute and end up needing more lockdowns.

You can't have a functioning internal economy if the airports are shut.

Of course you can.

Outside of tourism & commercial aerospace, any industry that cannot operate on tele/video calls or things like skype, slack or similar in this day and age need their heads examined.

Tourism? Well, if people cannot leave the country and want a holiday, then they have to holiday on the island.

Now, aerospace as I know firsthand will effectively be shuttered - but that comprises what percentage of the population and economy? Closing it for 12 months is minor compared to another lockdown lasting just a week or two.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 21, 2020, 12:08:53 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 12:02:51 PM
Quote from: five points on July 21, 2020, 11:25:06 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 20, 2020, 11:40:26 PM

But again, as I said before - far easier to keep the airports shut for a few months and ride this out with a functioning internal economy than to try and be too cute and end up needing more lockdowns.

You can't have a functioning internal economy if the airports are shut.

Of course you can.

Outside of tourism & commercial aerospace, any industry that cannot operate on tele/video calls or things like skype, slack or similar in this day and age need their heads examined.

Tourism? Well, if people cannot leave the country and want a holiday, then they have to holiday on the island.

Now, aerospace as I know firsthand will effectively be shuttered - but that comprises what percentage of the population and economy? Closing it for 12 months is minor compared to another lockdown lasting just a week or two.

It's unfortunately not as simple as that RadioGAAGAA
And what about our specialized manufacturing industry where we need to send highly trained technical engineers to commission and set up the equipment that is being exported?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 21, 2020, 12:37:55 PM
Was wondering when this guy would resurface -

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-brazil/brazils-bolsonaro-says-coronavirus-restrictions-kill-economy-idUSKCN24J0V8

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 21, 2020, 01:46:40 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on July 21, 2020, 10:49:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2020, 11:22:01 PM

Let's say you fly back from the USA, you quarantine for 14 days, the reason for quarantining that length of time is why?

Does the time of catching it and a positive result not show for 14 days?
I think the early information was that symptoms would not show for 5-14 days after transmission.

Getting symptoms and that time period i get, what was confusing me was if you contract it, can the tests not tell after a couple of days that you have it? a bit like the pregnancy test?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 05:34:22 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 21, 2020, 12:08:53 PMIt's unfortunately not as simple as that RadioGAAGAA

It pretty needs to be looked at that simply - either make international connections digital or run a strong risk of reintroducing the thing en mass to the population. Neither are good options, which is least worse?

Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 21, 2020, 12:08:53 PM
And what about our specialized manufacturing industry where we need to send highly trained technical engineers to commission and set up the equipment that is being exported?

It'd need to be done remotely and/or by bringing in subcontractors that are near where the gear is being setup. I know that's really crap and will mean a long slow laborious process which pleases no-one when compared to the norm... but that is still lightyears better than more shutdowns.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on July 21, 2020, 07:13:56 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 05:34:22 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 21, 2020, 12:08:53 PMIt's unfortunately not as simple as that RadioGAAGAA

It pretty needs to be looked at that simply - either make international connections digital or run a strong risk of reintroducing the thing en mass to the population. Neither are good options, which is least worse?

Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 21, 2020, 12:08:53 PM
And what about our specialized manufacturing industry where we need to send highly trained technical engineers to commission and set up the equipment that is being exported?

It'd need to be done remotely and/or by bringing in subcontractors that are near where the gear is being setup. I know that's really crap and will mean a long slow laborious process which pleases no-one when compared to the norm... but that is still lightyears better than more shutdowns.


I don't necessarily disagree with you here Radio, but the devil's advocate in me means I have to stir the pot a little.

So here goes.

Clearly lockdown was the integral part of preventing a widespread Covid pandemic. Nobody can question that.

But it would ostensibly seem there is now enough evidence available about Covid's lethal potential, for  the general population to make their own judgements on whether it is more of winter flu, or a Spanish flu, in terms of how much it should be feared.

And what I reckon the government are doing is trying to reflect the will of the people, while not quite throwing the ball over the wall.

With the will of the people being one that questions is it worth destroying some economic sectors, or financially ruining the country to keep economic sectors afloat, in order to fend off something that isn't any way efficient at killing people.

Closing airports indefinitely? Is that what we really voted in our politicians to do?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on July 21, 2020, 07:28:29 PM
It does seem that way.

You make a call - if you get it, it's on you. If you pass it onto someone else - it's on your conscience.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on July 21, 2020, 07:31:36 PM
Seems to be a decent crowd at this PSG Celtic friendly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 21, 2020, 07:36:25 PM
We could've caught it and passed it on and never knew we had it!

The virus will be with us just like the flu, it's not going away, or won't be away in our life time like the flu!

So the sooner we get a handle on treating it and vaccinating safely the better
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on July 21, 2020, 07:42:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 21, 2020, 07:36:25 PM
We could've caught it and passed it on and never knew we had it!

The virus will be with us just like the flu, it's not going away, or won't be away in our life time like the flu!

So the sooner we get a handle on treating it and vaccinating safely the better

A panel of experts in Ireland only last week said the opposite and it was very possible to get Ireland down to a covid free zone entirely??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 21, 2020, 07:49:33 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on July 21, 2020, 07:42:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 21, 2020, 07:36:25 PM
We could've caught it and passed it on and never knew we had it!

The virus will be with us just like the flu, it's not going away, or won't be away in our life time like the flu!

So the sooner we get a handle on treating it and vaccinating safely the better

A panel of experts in Ireland only last week said the opposite and it was very possible to get Ireland down to a covid free zone entirely??

The expert from Oxford who's heading up the vaccine tests said this! Who da f**k do we listen too?

Oh wait trailer and smurphy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 21, 2020, 07:54:55 PM
Has it not been reclassified as an endemic? aka not going away? (Disclaimer not an expert on what that means but that's my interpretation)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on July 21, 2020, 08:01:16 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 21, 2020, 07:54:55 PM
Has it not been reclassified as an endemic? aka not going away? (Disclaimer not an expert on what that means but that's my interpretation)

Definitely no expert here , just trying like everyone else to read from the experts but all along we have seen some really different forecasts from these experts .

When people say it will never go away , does that mean we will be socially distancing for the rest of our lives ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 21, 2020, 08:10:08 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on July 21, 2020, 08:01:16 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 21, 2020, 07:54:55 PM
Has it not been reclassified as an endemic? aka not going away? (Disclaimer not an expert on what that means but that's my interpretation)

Definitely no expert here , just trying like everyone else to read from the experts but all along we have seen some really different forecasts from these experts .

When people say it will never go away , does that mean we will be socially distancing for the rest of our lives ?

No, but he mentioned that like flu, we should stay away from people when they have symptoms and just sanitise and wash hands regularly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 21, 2020, 08:13:57 PM
I wouldn't think so. It will just need to be managed. Chicken pox etc are endemics but they are just managed better. This is still in the stages where it's not fully understood so can't be managed as well or really managed at all.

* disclaimer still no expert :D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 21, 2020, 08:20:35 PM
Wasn't much heed on social distancing at that Jack Charlton tribute in Dublin >:(.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on July 21, 2020, 08:24:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 21, 2020, 08:20:35 PM
Wasn't much heed on social distancing at that Jack Charlton tribute in Dublin >:(.

Yeah but it's grand as long as it's not a funeral of a republican then RTÉ will weigh in .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on July 21, 2020, 08:30:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 21, 2020, 07:54:55 PM
Has it not been reclassified as an endemic? aka not going away? (Disclaimer not an expert on what that means but that's my interpretation)

Where did you see/hear this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 21, 2020, 08:38:28 PM
My wife told me she had read it in some bbc news article. I will see if I can dig it out. It wouldn't really surprise me.

[edit]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53488142 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53488142)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 21, 2020, 09:02:58 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 05:34:22 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 21, 2020, 12:08:53 PMIt's unfortunately not as simple as that RadioGAAGAA

It pretty needs to be looked at that simply - either make international connections digital or run a strong risk of reintroducing the thing en mass to the population. Neither are good options, which is least worse?

Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 21, 2020, 12:08:53 PM
And what about our specialized manufacturing industry where we need to send highly trained technical engineers to commission and set up the equipment that is being exported?

Really specialised equipment can't be commissioned by a sub-contractor.  The complex equipment we sell and manufacture cannot be commissioned by someone who hasn't been with us for a number of years.  What will happen is that if we can't commission it we will lose sales as foreign customers will purchase from a competitor who can attend site.  This wouldn't be good for NI businesses and exporting companies who fall into this (probably small) subset of exporters). 
I guess this is the challenge that the Powers that Be face.  Totally closing down international links would really hammer the economy of a country, so they are trying to walk a tightrope.

It'd need to be done remotely and/or by bringing in subcontractors that are near where the gear is being setup. I know that's really crap and will mean a long slow laborious process which pleases no-one when compared to the norm... but that is still lightyears better than more shutdowns.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 21, 2020, 09:16:09 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 21, 2020, 08:30:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 21, 2020, 07:54:55 PM
Has it not been reclassified as an endemic? aka not going away? (Disclaimer not an expert on what that means but that's my interpretation)

Where did you see/hear this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53488142
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 22, 2020, 10:47:17 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 21, 2020, 07:13:56 PM
But it would ostensibly seem there is now enough evidence available about Covid's lethal potential, for  the general population to make their own judgements on whether it is more of winter flu, or a Spanish flu, in terms of how much it should be feared.

And what I reckon the government are doing is trying to reflect the will of the people, while not quite throwing the ball over the wall.

Unfortunately, there are too many stupid or selfish people that would serve as super spreaders. Individual choice is great, as long as the individual is both informed and selfless.

Quote from: thewobbler on July 21, 2020, 07:13:56 PM
With the will of the people being one that questions is it worth destroying some economic sectors, or financially ruining the country to keep economic sectors afloat, in order to fend off something that isn't any way efficient at killing people.

Closing airports indefinitely? Is that what we really voted in our politicians to do?

My reply to the first part would be - if it spikes again to the point a 2nd lockdown is needed, then whats the damage of that economically compared to shuttering the parts of the economy that is most likely to lead to a 2nd spike? IMO it would definitely fall on the side of closing airports etc.

The airports would only remain closed until there is a vaccine widely available. Then I suppose in the shorter term until the Irish population has herd immunity, any traveller into Ireland must have paperwork evidence of having (i) got a vaccine within the last X months or (ii) already have had it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 22, 2020, 10:50:22 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 21, 2020, 09:02:58 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 05:34:22 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 21, 2020, 12:08:53 PMIt's unfortunately not as simple as that RadioGAAGAA

It pretty needs to be looked at that simply - either make international connections digital or run a strong risk of reintroducing the thing en mass to the population. Neither are good options, which is least worse?

Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 21, 2020, 12:08:53 PM
And what about our specialized manufacturing industry where we need to send highly trained technical engineers to commission and set up the equipment that is being exported?

Really specialised equipment can't be commissioned by a sub-contractor.  The complex equipment we sell and manufacture cannot be commissioned by someone who hasn't been with us for a number of years.  What will happen is that if we can't commission it we will lose sales as foreign customers will purchase from a competitor who can attend site.  This wouldn't be good for NI businesses and exporting companies who fall into this (probably small) subset of exporters). 
I guess this is the challenge that the Powers that Be face.  Totally closing down international links would really hammer the economy of a country, so they are trying to walk a tightrope.

It'd need to be done remotely and/or by bringing in subcontractors that are near where the gear is being setup. I know that's really crap and will mean a long slow laborious process which pleases no-one when compared to the norm... but that is still lightyears better than more shutdowns.

I take it this is somewhere like seagate?

BTW - to clarify motives etc, I work in aerospace. So I'm not exactly advocating shutting down folks without going through considerable pain myself. I'm already only partially working and expect to be standing on the edge of the abyss pretty soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on July 22, 2020, 11:17:05 AM
Just read in today's indo that we are down to 7 intensive care covid patients.

It begs the question was this or is this in reality a global nursing / care home pandemic?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 22, 2020, 11:20:34 AM
Quote from: highorlow on July 22, 2020, 11:17:05 AM
Just read in today's indo that we are down to 7 intensive care covid patients.

It begs the question was this or is this in reality a global nursing / care home pandemic?

Hard question to answer because of the lock down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 22, 2020, 12:23:46 PM
Quote from: highorlow on July 22, 2020, 11:17:05 AM
Just read in today's indo that we are down to 7 intensive care covid patients.

It begs the question was this or is this in reality a global nursing / care home pandemic?

On this island, because actions were taken, a bit later than ideal, but still taken, it has become one mostly of care homes.

Look elsewhere, Lombardy, Brazil and the USA and you can see it has the potential to be so much worse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on July 22, 2020, 12:28:12 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 22, 2020, 12:23:46 PM
Quote from: highorlow on July 22, 2020, 11:17:05 AM
Just read in today's indo that we are down to 7 intensive care covid patients.

It begs the question was this or is this in reality a global nursing / care home pandemic?

On this island, because actions were taken, a bit later than ideal, but still taken, it has become one mostly of care homes.

Look elsewhere, Lombardy, Brazil and the USA and you can see it has the potential to be so much worse.

Dunno about Brazil but disasters in Lombardy and the NY/NJ/CT/MA were predominantly a result of hospital/"care" home maladministration and negligence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 22, 2020, 12:31:05 PM
Quote from: five points on July 22, 2020, 12:28:12 PM
Dunno about Brazil but disasters in Lombardy and the NY/NJ/CT/MA were predominantly a result of hospital/"care" home maladministration and negligence.

Please do tell us more.

Particularly in the context of it only being a "care home pandemic" if no action were taken.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on July 22, 2020, 12:43:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 22, 2020, 12:31:05 PM
Quote from: five points on July 22, 2020, 12:28:12 PM
Dunno about Brazil but disasters in Lombardy and the NY/NJ/CT/MA were predominantly a result of hospital/"care" home maladministration and negligence.

Please do tell us more.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/06/hospitalising-coronavirus-patients-can-cause-deaths-italy-data/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-sent-recovering-coronavirus-patients-to-nursing-homes-it-was-a-fatal-error-11589470773
QuoteParticularly in the context of it only being a "care home pandemic" if no action were taken.

I made no suggestion in that regard.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 22, 2020, 01:29:39 PM
A doctor in Dublins Mater Hispital has died from Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 22, 2020, 02:07:28 PM
Quote from: five points on July 22, 2020, 12:43:01 PM
I made no suggestion in that regard.

Given you replied to my reply about it being "a global nursing / care home pandemic" I don't believe that is an unfair connection to make.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on July 22, 2020, 02:11:04 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 22, 2020, 02:07:28 PM
Given you replied to my reply about it being "a global nursing / care home pandemic" I don't believe that is an unfair connection to make.

Fair enough to make the connection not to put words in  my mouth.

"disasters in Lombardy and the NY/NJ/CT/MA were predominantly a result of hospital/"care" home maladministration and negligence" does not equate to "it only being a "care home pandemic" if no action were taken."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on July 23, 2020, 08:20:17 AM
Based on the construction site infection number and number of close contacts per individual is it true to say we will have a day this week where the number of new infections will be 80+ ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 23, 2020, 08:37:28 AM
Only just read about the building site there now after reading that comment. It'll be interesting to see now where that goes in the community etc. You would have to imagine that's spreading in the open air though I guess it depends how much distancing etc was going on. It would probably add fuel to the mask thing outdoors too I suspect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on July 23, 2020, 10:17:19 AM
What is the R number currently?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: guy crouchback on July 23, 2020, 10:34:01 AM
Quote from: marty34 on July 23, 2020, 10:17:19 AM
What is the R number currently?

last week the R number was reported at between 1.4 and 1.8. however with case numbers so low the R number is now less relevant, the tyranny of small number as they say.

at present the best metric is the number of cases being admitted to firstly ICU and secondly to Hospital. at present both of these are very low.

remember ''flattening the curve''   the lock down ect was never about eliminating the virus, that would be impossible, but about protecting our hospital system.

the biggest threat now is not the virus per se but the dis-functionality of our health system.  yesterday for the first time since march there were people on trolleys in castlebar hospital, the same thing is now happening all over the country.
so soon we will be back to not being able to cope with ANY extra pressure on ICU.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2020, 10:47:41 AM
Quote from: guy crouchback on July 23, 2020, 10:34:01 AM
Quote from: marty34 on July 23, 2020, 10:17:19 AM
What is the R number currently?

last week the R number was reported at between 1.4 and 1.8. however with case numbers so low the R number is now less relevant, the tyranny of small number as they say.

at present the best metric is the number of cases being admitted to firstly ICU and secondly to Hospital. at present both of these are very low.

remember ''flattening the curve''   the lock down ect was never about eliminating the virus, that would be impossible, but about protecting our hospital system.

the biggest threat now is not the virus per se but the dis-functionality of our health system.  yesterday for the first time since march there were people on trolleys in castlebar hospital, the same thing is now happening all over the country.
so soon we will be back to not being able to cope with ANY extra pressure on ICU.

Are they on trolleys due to Covid or have they been admitted with other problems?

With hospitals opening up now people may feel its time to head to A&E with conditions they felt needed looked at but during the pandemic felt its best to wait?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: guy crouchback on July 23, 2020, 11:06:41 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2020, 10:47:41 AM
Quote from: guy crouchback on July 23, 2020, 10:34:01 AM
Quote from: marty34 on July 23, 2020, 10:17:19 AM
What is the R number currently?

last week the R number was reported at between 1.4 and 1.8. however with case numbers so low the R number is now less relevant, the tyranny of small number as they say.

at present the best metric is the number of cases being admitted to firstly ICU and secondly to Hospital. at present both of these are very low.

remember ''flattening the curve''   the lock down ect was never about eliminating the virus, that would be impossible, but about protecting our hospital system.

the biggest threat now is not the virus per se but the dis-functionality of our health system.  yesterday for the first time since march there were people on trolleys in castlebar hospital, the same thing is now happening all over the country.
so soon we will be back to not being able to cope with ANY extra pressure on ICU.

Are they on trolleys due to Covid or have they been admitted with other problems?

With hospitals opening up now people may feel its time to head to A&E with conditions they felt needed looked at but during the pandemic felt its best to wait?

not covid related other stuff, there are no covid cases in castlebar. in fact i think mayo has only had 1 case (louisburg footballer?) in the last 3 weeks plus.

exactly so its just going back to what it was before except it will probably be worse than before as a lot of people will have put off stuff that now has to be dealt with.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on July 23, 2020, 11:21:39 AM
Quote from: guy crouchback on July 23, 2020, 11:06:41 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2020, 10:47:41 AM
Quote from: guy crouchback on July 23, 2020, 10:34:01 AM
Quote from: marty34 on July 23, 2020, 10:17:19 AM
What is the R number currently?

last week the R number was reported at between 1.4 and 1.8. however with case numbers so low the R number is now less relevant, the tyranny of small number as they say.

at present the best metric is the number of cases being admitted to firstly ICU and secondly to Hospital. at present both of these are very low.

remember ''flattening the curve''   the lock down ect was never about eliminating the virus, that would be impossible, but about protecting our hospital system.

the biggest threat now is not the virus per se but the dis-functionality of our health system.  yesterday for the first time since march there were people on trolleys in castlebar hospital, the same thing is now happening all over the country.
so soon we will be back to not being able to cope with ANY extra pressure on ICU.

Are they on trolleys due to Covid or have they been admitted with other problems?

With hospitals opening up now people may feel its time to head to A&E with conditions they felt needed looked at but during the pandemic felt its best to wait?

not covid related other stuff, there are no covid cases in castlebar. in fact i think mayo has only had 1 case (louisburg footballer?) in the last 3 weeks plus.

exactly so its just going back to what it was before except it will probably be worse than before as a lot of people will have put off stuff that now has to be dealt with.

There must be some backlog of appointments in hospitals now in regards to everything: checkups, operations and outpatients etc. 

There was some queue before March but what'll it not be like now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 23, 2020, 11:34:07 AM
And less space in the Hospitals to deal with that backlog.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 23, 2020, 11:34:34 AM
Quote from: guy crouchback on July 23, 2020, 11:06:41 AM
not covid related other stuff, there are no covid cases in castlebar. in fact i think mayo has only had 1 case (louisburg footballer?) in the last 3 weeks plus.

One case is always a bit odd as he must have got it from somebody.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on July 23, 2020, 11:38:37 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 23, 2020, 11:34:07 AM
And less space in the Hospitals to deal with that backlog.

Very true.

If you're waiting on a hip replacement etc. you could be waiting a long long time now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 23, 2020, 01:30:02 PM
Killeavy have a positive test now too. Turning into a right old mess.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on July 23, 2020, 01:39:19 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 23, 2020, 01:30:02 PM
Killeavy have a positive test now too. Turning into a right old mess.

The GAA should have put out a statement in April saying no GAA for the year.

It's only going to get worse as things open up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Denn Forever on July 23, 2020, 01:39:30 PM
These masks that have  activated carbon filters.  Are they single use  cos how do you reactivate them?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 23, 2020, 01:47:08 PM
Quote from: marty34 on July 23, 2020, 01:39:19 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 23, 2020, 01:30:02 PM
Killeavy have a positive test now too. Turning into a right old mess.

IGAA ahould have put out a statement in April saying no GAA for the year.

It's only going to get worse as things open up.

+1000
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 23, 2020, 01:59:13 PM
After Horan's interview in May we were inundated with GAA pundits, managers, players etc calling for a return to activities.

Chances are that most County Championships will suffer disruption.
If a club has a last round group game, Quarter Final or Semi Final coming up and have to shut down for the preceding 4 or 5 days it would be very unfair to expect the game to be played.

On another note it's very disappointing to hear that up to 25% of "contacrs" aren't presenting for tests.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 23, 2020, 02:22:52 PM
Quote from: marty34 on July 23, 2020, 01:39:19 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 23, 2020, 01:30:02 PM
Killeavy have a positive test now too. Turning into a right old mess.

IGAA ahould have put out a statement in April saying no GAA for the year.

It's only going to get worse as things open up.

I don't agree. If people wish to play then they should be allowed do so. The problem here is the competitions where someone goes to a Karaoke bar and his team get quarantined holding up the whole championship. Perhaps only leagues without relegation should be played and if there are a few gaps then no harm done. Or have something completely different, like street leagues.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 23, 2020, 02:25:11 PM
What about people who get exposed through day to day work though? Granted the karaoke one maybe people should have known better but that isn't always the case here.

I'd agree on the rest though - a more recreational slant should have been put on it like no relegation from leagues or something. This was the GAA's chance to go back to bread and butter here's why we play the game and they have failed IMO.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 23, 2020, 02:41:51 PM
Indeed, some one might work in health care and get it while helping the rest of us. But the relentless competition in the GAA is sometimes an obstacle, where anything that falls short of a championship game is basically characterised as a waste of time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 23, 2020, 03:07:43 PM
14 in hospital as of last nights  HSE update.

(https://i.ibb.co/4gJP4t8/Screenshot-20200723-145241-2.png) (https://ibb.co/5x2Bs4r)

Of that 14, 7 of them are in ICU and 4 are ventilated.

Mid April there was close to 900 people in hospital with the virus in ROI.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 23, 2020, 04:06:22 PM
Wouldn't like to be one of the 11 though.
I'd imagine most of those testing positive nowadays are younger/stronger people compared to the early days when it was tearing through nursing homes etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 23, 2020, 11:27:48 PM
Now over 4 million cases have been recorded in the USA.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 24, 2020, 12:03:56 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 23, 2020, 11:27:48 PM
Now over 4 million cases have been recorded in the USA.

And numbers increasing in 39 states, so it isn't over yet.

1900 cases in one day in Isreal, you can really lose it with this virus if you do not keep on the straight and narrow.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on July 25, 2020, 01:18:47 AM
The r number is between 0.7 and 1.4 now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 25, 2020, 07:57:48 PM
Spain's  2nd wave could be imminent.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: God14 on July 25, 2020, 08:10:50 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 21, 2020, 09:02:58 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 21, 2020, 05:34:22 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 21, 2020, 12:08:53 PMIt's unfortunately not as simple as that RadioGAAGAA

It pretty needs to be looked at that simply - either make international connections digital or run a strong risk of reintroducing the thing en mass to the population. Neither are good options, which is least worse?

Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 21, 2020, 12:08:53 PM
And what about our specialized manufacturing industry where we need to send highly trained technical engineers to commission and set up the equipment that is being exported?

Really specialised equipment can't be commissioned by a sub-contractor.  The complex equipment we sell and manufacture cannot be commissioned by someone who hasn't been with us for a number of years.  What will happen is that if we can't commission it we will lose sales as foreign customers will purchase from a competitor who can attend site.  This wouldn't be good for NI businesses and exporting companies who fall into this (probably small) subset of exporters). 
I guess this is the challenge that the Powers that Be face.  Totally closing down international links would really hammer the economy of a country, so they are trying to walk a tightrope.

It'd need to be done remotely and/or by bringing in subcontractors that are near where the gear is being setup. I know that's really crap and will mean a long slow laborious process which pleases no-one when compared to the norm... but that is still lightyears better than more shutdowns.

A real tightrope as you say, but surely a Govt exemption system could be put in place with approved firms and a tangible trackable quarantine system in place guaranteeing self isolation on return. Ie if individual breaks quarantine, the firm loses approved status

It could be done.
External travel really needs to be hammered & driven down, albeit we cannot completely close off. Aviation industry sacrafice is a price worth paying
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 25, 2020, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 25, 2020, 07:57:48 PM
Spain's  2nd wave could be imminent.

You have to take into account the political backdrop in Spain. What Spain does and what Catalonia does will nearly always differ, it wants to be seperate, so as sure as Spain says back to normal service....Catalonia, beit rightly or wrongly will nearly always do the opposite and try to do whatever it needs to be seen to be different to the kings rule.

It's obviously just one thing to consider, but as always, there tends to be a political reason behind everything these days rather than the actual good of man.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on July 26, 2020, 01:51:16 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 25, 2020, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 25, 2020, 07:57:48 PM
Spain's  2nd wave could be imminent.

You have to take into account the political backdrop in Spain. What Spain does and what Catalonia does will nearly always differ, it wants to be seperate, so as sure as Spain says back to normal service....Catalonia, beit rightly or wrongly will nearly always do the opposite and try to do whatever it needs to be seen to be different to the kings rule.

It's obviously just one thing to consider, but as always, there tends to be a political reason behind everything these days rather than the actual good of man.

Spain is a federal state with much authority delegated to the autonomous communities. The extraordinary measures enforced from March on were only possible for to the national State of Emergency (Estado de alarma) that was in place at the time. That had been lifted for a month now. Spain's 4 stage emergence from lockdown left the final stage I'm the hands of the governments of each autonomous community - it's not just Madrid and Catalunya.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 26, 2020, 05:48:45 AM
Quote from: gallsman on July 26, 2020, 01:51:16 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on July 25, 2020, 09:01:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on July 25, 2020, 07:57:48 PM
Spain's  2nd wave could be imminent.

You have to take into account the political backdrop in Spain. What Spain does and what Catalonia does will nearly always differ, it wants to be seperate, so as sure as Spain says back to normal service....Catalonia, beit rightly or wrongly will nearly always do the opposite and try to do whatever it needs to be seen to be different to the kings rule.

It's obviously just one thing to consider, but as always, there tends to be a political reason behind everything these days rather than the actual good of man.

Spain is a federal state with much authority delegated to the autonomous communities. The extraordinary measures enforced from March on were only possible for to the national State of Emergency (Estado de alarma) that was in place at the time. That had been lifted for a month now. Spain's 4 stage emergence from lockdown left the final stage I'm the hands of the governments of each autonomous community - it's not just Madrid and Catalunya.
Lockdowns fron now on are likely to be more local. Authorities in Europe had no idea how to deal with a pandemic in March. National lockdowns are crude.
Now they are focusing on identifying superspreaders and contact tracing

Scientists at the Universities of Oxford, Warwick and Lancaster found that contact tracing could reduce the transmission rate from 3.11 people to 0.21.

For this you need adequate testing.Which was not available in March.

Castex, the new French Prime Minister, is Catalan.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 26, 2020, 07:02:12 PM
The numbers for the last week.

Deaths in the ROI = 3 ( 5 less than last week)
Cases this week = 122 ( 21 less cases than last week)

The panic with some over the rise in the R number was not needed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 26, 2020, 08:07:56 PM
Things are OK in Ireland if they can hold things at that. What they need is a formula to open the quiet pub, but not the party pub.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Boycey on July 26, 2020, 10:24:56 PM
Opinions wanted

I umpire for a friend of mine, since football returned we've had a couple of local gigs with only himself and two of us travelling in same car. Today was senior championship and we always go as a team of five usually in same car for the banter more than anything.

He said he'd call at usual time and when I suggest I'd drive and take one of other lads he couldn't see need? I reasoned that if it was decided that only 200 could be at matches and dressing rooms were out of bounds us piling into a car and heading over the road seemed to defeat purpose a bit?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 27, 2020, 08:36:57 AM
Quote from: Boycey on July 26, 2020, 10:24:56 PM
Opinions wanted

I umpire for a friend of mine, since football returned we've had a couple of local gigs with only himself and two of us travelling in same car. Today was senior championship and we always go as a team of five usually in same car for the banter more than anything.

He said he'd call at usual time and when I suggest I'd drive and take one of other lads he couldn't see need? I reasoned that if it was decided that only 200 could be at matches and dressing rooms were out of bounds us piling into a car and heading over the road seemed to defeat purpose a bit?

We were told to go separately if possible..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 27, 2020, 06:00:38 PM
No reported deaths from this virus in Northern Ireland for 2 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 27, 2020, 08:20:50 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 27, 2020, 06:00:38 PM
No reported deaths from this virus in Northern Ireland for 2 weeks.

Even the virus takes a fortnight at the Twelfth.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on July 27, 2020, 08:28:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 27, 2020, 08:20:50 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 27, 2020, 06:00:38 PM
No reported deaths from this virus in Northern Ireland for 2 weeks.

Even the virus takes a fortnight at the Twelfth.

Lol, I like that one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 27, 2020, 08:29:23 PM
Code Select
Quote from: armaghniac on July 27, 2020, 08:20:50 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 27, 2020, 06:00:38 PM
No reported deaths from this virus in Northern Ireland for 2 weeks.

Even the virus takes a fortnight at the Twelfth.

The virus must be in Bundoran
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 27, 2020, 09:00:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 27, 2020, 08:29:23 PM
Code Select
Quote from: armaghniac on July 27, 2020, 08:20:50 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 27, 2020, 06:00:38 PM
No reported deaths from this virus in Northern Ireland for 2 weeks.

Even the virus takes a fortnight at the Twelfth.

The virus must be in Bundoran

It wouldn't be the first virus around there at this time of year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 28, 2020, 08:57:04 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 27, 2020, 09:00:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 27, 2020, 08:29:23 PM
Code Select
Quote from: armaghniac on July 27, 2020, 08:20:50 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 27, 2020, 06:00:38 PM
No reported deaths from this virus in Northern Ireland for 2 weeks.

Even the virus takes a fortnight at the Twelfth.

The virus must be in Bundoran

It wouldn't be the first virus around there at this time of year.
Very good
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on July 28, 2020, 09:14:04 AM
Have you lads chased Smurfy away?

Who would have thought we would get to the point that we were joking about the virus and the 12th in here.

Great to see, lets hope people focus on their own health over the next few months to avoid any scaremongering going forward etc.

Tourism is a tricky one....we can't survive without it...it looks like it's our only real issue....Thankfully we have two very competent governments on the island.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on July 28, 2020, 09:38:33 AM
Galway city fairly dead for the races. Dunno how many businesses will survive this. Was like walking around Portrush in the middle of December.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 28, 2020, 11:42:00 AM
Leaving aside a vaccine, I think improvements in testing technology could help manage this plague. If you had relatively inexpensive convenient testing then you could mass test the area around any case and keep cases to a minimum (like China did) and if tourists could get tested 3 days before travel and then again at the airport you would diminish imported cases to a minimum. You could even have mass periodic testing in places like universities and get those closer to normal as a consequence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on July 28, 2020, 11:49:27 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 28, 2020, 11:42:00 AM
Leaving aside a vaccine, I think improvements in testing technology could help manage this plague. If you had relatively inexpensive convenient testing then you could mass test the area around any case and keep cases to a minimum (like China did) and if tourists could get tested 3 days before travel and then again at the airport you would diminish imported cases to a minimum. You could even have mass periodic testing in places like universities and get those closer to normal as a consequence.

I don't disagree but there are testing facilities in each or most sizeable towns but you seem to have to know the right people in order to get tested. I know of people who have returned from abroad and avoided quarantine because they got pulled into such places, but for most people it's not an option.

As regards the above comments about Galway being so quiet yesterday, the issue isn't so much international tourism but domestic. If people are so scared of this thing that they're afraid of venturing to Galway in the summer, then it suggests that everywhere else on the island is destroyed economy-wise for a long, long time to come.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NAG1 on July 28, 2020, 11:51:42 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 28, 2020, 11:42:00 AM
Leaving aside a vaccine, I think improvements in testing technology could help manage this plague. If you had relatively inexpensive convenient testing then you could mass test the area around any case and keep cases to a minimum (like China did) and if tourists could get tested 3 days before travel and then again at the airport you would diminish imported cases to a minimum. You could even have mass periodic testing in places like universities and get those closer to normal as a consequence.

Chances of this happening when the Gov't had to step in with Randox and stop them profiteering at a time of crisis?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 28, 2020, 11:55:27 AM
Randox have a bit of a reputation - you would hope other companies would maybe conduct themselves a bit better. If there is enough of a bulk requirement for the testing then even with smaller margins they'd make plenty anyway.

Though yeah you could be right and I have too much faith in human nature...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GalwayBayBoy on July 28, 2020, 12:54:33 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 28, 2020, 09:38:33 AM
Galway city fairly dead for the races. Dunno how many businesses will survive this. Was like walking around Portrush in the middle of December.

First time in years I won't be in Galway for at least a day or two during race week but I had heard reports that the hotels are all booked out so I thought it would still be busy enough if not quite the usual manic busyness of race week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on July 28, 2020, 12:58:14 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on July 28, 2020, 12:54:33 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 28, 2020, 09:38:33 AM
Galway city fairly dead for the races. Dunno how many businesses will survive this. Was like walking around Portrush in the middle of December.

First time in years I won't be in Galway for at least a day or two during race week but I had heard reports that the hotels are all booked out so I thought it would still be busy enough if not quite the usual manic busyness of race week.

It looked deserted in the middle of the day on last night's RTE news and there was a very downbeat air to the people they interviewed.

Some of the tour bus hotels in Kerry are shut until next year. The same may be going on in Galway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on July 28, 2020, 05:26:25 PM
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on July 28, 2020, 12:54:33 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 28, 2020, 09:38:33 AM
Galway city fairly dead for the races. Dunno how many businesses will survive this. Was like walking around Portrush in the middle of December.

First time in years I won't be in Galway for at least a day or two during race week but I had heard reports that the hotels are all booked out so I thought it would still be busy enough if not quite the usual manic busyness of race week.

Seemed to be more just walking around Salthill and Spiddal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 28, 2020, 06:18:26 PM
40 in 26 counties and 9 in the 6 counties today. Always a bounce after the weekend, you wouldn't want this every day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on July 28, 2020, 07:24:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 28, 2020, 06:18:26 PM
40 in 26 counties and 9 in the 6 counties today. Always a bounce after the weekend, you wouldn't want this every day.

Tuesday the last few weeks has included Sunday, Monday cases.  What was reported Sunday 12,Monday 11,today 40. In reality it's 21 cases a day the last 3 days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 28, 2020, 09:08:43 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 28, 2020, 07:24:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 28, 2020, 06:18:26 PM
40 in 26 counties and 9 in the 6 counties today. Always a bounce after the weekend, you wouldn't want this every day.

Tuesday the last few weeks has included Sunday, Monday cases.  What was reported Sunday 12,Monday 11,today 40. In reality it's 21 cases a day the last 3 days.

Indeed, but it a 10% increase even averaged out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 29, 2020, 08:13:15 PM
14 today with I think 8(?) in hospital.
She's on the rise on the Continent though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 29, 2020, 09:31:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 29, 2020, 08:13:15 PM
14 today with I think 8(?) in hospital.
She's on the rise on the Continent though.

If you are not careful this plague will kick off, it isn't the case that you can ease up even if there aren't that many cases.
Hong Kong had feck all cases all along and now they have had to close restaurants.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on July 30, 2020, 04:25:49 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on July 30, 2020, 03:20:51 PM
Attention Nordies! Contact tracing app for Android and iOS now launched...

Android - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.hscni.covidtracker&hl=en_GB
Apple - https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/stopcovid-ni/id1519404160

Big Brother at his finest. . . why would I want the Govt to see what I'm doing on FB/Snapchat/Twitter etc. the whole thing is just a ruse to invade our privacy!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 30, 2020, 04:54:16 PM
I suppose it is if you spend your time laundering diesel or other illegal activities ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 30, 2020, 05:01:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on July 30, 2020, 04:25:49 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on July 30, 2020, 03:20:51 PM
Attention Nordies! Contact tracing app for Android and iOS now launched...

Android - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.hscni.covidtracker&hl=en_GB
Apple - https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/stopcovid-ni/id1519404160

Big Brother at his finest. . . why would I want the Govt to see what I'm doing on FB/Snapchat/Twitter etc. the whole thing is just a ruse to invade our privacy!!

If one is on any those sites more than likely your privacy is already invaded.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 30, 2020, 06:24:19 PM
85 cases in 26 counties. That is increase, whatever way you look at it. Mostly in a factory, that needs to be understood.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 30, 2020, 06:26:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 30, 2020, 06:24:19 PM
85 cases in 26 counties. That is increase, whatever way you look at it. Mostly in a factory, that needs to be understood.

Big increase from recent days and the weekly average that was 18 cases per day. Hopefully its a once off and we get back to 20 or less cases tomorrow.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on July 30, 2020, 06:41:21 PM
It was said last few if there was a period of 80 to 100 cases a day they would go back to phase 2
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on July 30, 2020, 09:52:07 PM
But but but Rodney only 6 people in the whole of the South of Ireland in hospital with Coronavirus. That includes icu. A whole 6
Shows younger people getting it and basically don't need much treatment
Move back to phase 2 quick
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 30, 2020, 10:11:36 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 30, 2020, 09:52:07 PM
But but but Rodney only 6 people in the whole of the South of Ireland in hospital with Coronavirus. That includes icu. A whole 6
Shows younger people getting it and basically don't need much treatment
Move back to phase 2 quick

You're back!!

Lock up the Oldies
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 31, 2020, 06:24:28 PM
38 cases in the ROI today and 26 of those cases are related to clusters and or close contacts from yesterdays outbreak.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 31, 2020, 07:50:16 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 31, 2020, 06:24:28 PM
38 cases in the ROI today and 26 of those cases are related to clusters and or close contacts from yesterdays outbreak.

and the doc complaining about people with symptoms knocking about instead of staying at home. Some people don't give a damn.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on July 31, 2020, 08:40:34 PM
What's the Phase 5 restrictions/relaxtion looking like for 10th August in ROI? I've a wedding hanging on the ability to take 100 guests (50 if it stays in current phase = wedding cancelled).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 31, 2020, 10:06:26 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 31, 2020, 08:40:34 PM
What's the Phase 5 restrictions/relaxtion looking like for 10th August in ROI? I've a wedding hanging on the ability to take 100 guests (50 if it stays in current phase = wedding cancelled).

I wouldn't be hopeful, relaxing restrictions when cases are increasing is more of an American thing.

Meanwhile this is a heatmap of cases in Florida. Starts off with the irresponsible party people deciding they couldn't wait to make whoopee, not so many older people. A few weeks later there is a significant top on the triangle and the death rate is increasing rapidly.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ec6aeI9WoAIfQ9Y?format=png)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EeQxEJqWAAMacUi?format=png)



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 01, 2020, 01:38:51 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 31, 2020, 08:40:34 PM
What's the Phase 5 restrictions/relaxtion looking like for 10th August in ROI? I've a wedding hanging on the ability to take 100 guests (50 if it stays in current phase = wedding cancelled).

Depends on how well the recent clusters are controlled in the next few days. By early next week it should be known if most of the increased cases are linked to isolated clusters or are part of a more worrying trend.

The government are to give announcement on Tuesday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 01, 2020, 06:27:11 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on July 30, 2020, 09:52:07 PM
But but but Rodney only 6 people in the whole of the South of Ireland in hospital with Coronavirus. That includes icu. A whole 6
Shows younger people getting it and basically don't need much treatment
Move back to phase 2 quick

Hmmm, I thought trailer said it's for the over 70s only?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 03:35:03 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EeUuTSFXsAAba8C?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 01, 2020, 04:22:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 03:35:03 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EeUuTSFXsAAba8C?format=jpg&name=large)

That is class.

Saving it!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on August 01, 2020, 07:04:43 PM
That's good.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 07:27:07 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 01, 2020, 07:04:43 PM
That's good.

taken from Twitter, of course.

45 cases in the 26 today, the same number as reported in China. This week has seen a definite increase in cases, this needs to be understood and stopped.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 01, 2020, 07:55:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 07:27:07 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 01, 2020, 07:04:43 PM
That's good.

taken from Twitter, of course.

45 cases in the 26 today, the same number as reported in China. This week has seen a definite increase in cases, this needs to be understood and stopped.

Highest weekly number of cases since the first week of June. Not a widespread problem as the same few counties are popping up when the location of cases are confirmed. If the factory clusters are got under control the daily and weekly numbers should drop once more.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 08:40:32 PM
5 months in they need to reflect on why there is still a large outbreak in a factory and ensure that it is the last one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2020, 09:39:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 08:40:32 PM
5 months in they need to reflect on why there is still a large outbreak in a factory and ensure that it is the last one.

Because one person gets it and it's spreads in a factory environment quicker.. you can put in all the measures you want but it can't always make it 100% safe.

Getting it caught is a good thing, and tracing helps. Hopefully we've no fatalities from it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 10:25:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2020, 09:39:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 08:40:32 PM
5 months in they need to reflect on why there is still a large outbreak in a factory and ensure that it is the last one.

Because one person gets it and it's spreads in a factory environment quicker.. you can put in all the measures you want but it can't always make it 100% safe.

I bet you €50 that all the required measures were not operated properly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on August 01, 2020, 10:36:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2020, 09:39:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 08:40:32 PM
5 months in they need to reflect on why there is still a large outbreak in a factory and ensure that it is the last one.

Because one person gets it and it's spreads in a factory environment quicker.. you can put in all the measures you want but it can't always make it 100% safe.

Getting it caught is a good thing, and tracing helps. Hopefully we've no fatalities from it
That's the main hope. Cluster cases indoors will continue to be a an issue for a long time to come.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on August 01, 2020, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 10:25:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2020, 09:39:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 08:40:32 PM
5 months in they need to reflect on why there is still a large outbreak in a factory and ensure that it is the last one.

Because one person gets it and it's spreads in a factory environment quicker.. you can put in all the measures you want but it can't always make it 100% safe.

I bet you €50 that all the required measures were not operated properly.

Don't think you can say that. Could worker's for example be sharing accommodation outside of work?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 10:55:58 PM
Quote from: Itchy on August 01, 2020, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 10:25:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2020, 09:39:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 08:40:32 PM
5 months in they need to reflect on why there is still a large outbreak in a factory and ensure that it is the last one.

Because one person gets it and it's spreads in a factory environment quicker.. you can put in all the measures you want but it can't always make it 100% safe.

I bet you €50 that all the required measures were not operated properly.

Don't think you can say that. Could worker's for example be sharing accommodation outside of work?

That might explain how someone got Covid, but not why it spread in the factory.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2020, 11:03:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 10:55:58 PM
Quote from: Itchy on August 01, 2020, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 10:25:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2020, 09:39:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 08:40:32 PM
5 months in they need to reflect on why there is still a large outbreak in a factory and ensure that it is the last one.

Because one person gets it and it's spreads in a factory environment quicker.. you can put in all the measures you want but it can't always make it 100% safe.

I bet you €50 that all the required measures were not operated properly.

Don't think you can say that. Could worker's for example be sharing accommodation outside of work?

That might explain how someone got Covid, but not why it spread in the factory.

Working is a struggle for everyone! Even hospitals couldn't get it right... I wouldn't be too harsh people don't intentionally pass it on, employees and employers are all responsible. I'm sure it wasn't their intention..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 02, 2020, 12:03:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2020, 11:03:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 10:55:58 PM
Quote from: Itchy on August 01, 2020, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 10:25:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2020, 09:39:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 08:40:32 PM
5 months in they need to reflect on why there is still a large outbreak in a factory and ensure that it is the last one.

Because one person gets it and it's spreads in a factory environment quicker.. you can put in all the measures you want but it can't always make it 100% safe.

I bet you €50 that all the required measures were not operated properly.

Don't think you can say that. Could worker's for example be sharing accommodation outside of work?

That might explain how someone got Covid, but not why it spread in the factory.

Working is a struggle for everyone! Even hospitals couldn't get it right... I wouldn't be too harsh people don't intentionally pass it on, employees and employers are all responsible. I'm sure it wasn't their intention..

At least hospitals were hit early on, when the virus was relatively unknown.

What excuse is there now? Airborne transmission is well established now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 02, 2020, 12:15:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 02, 2020, 12:03:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2020, 11:03:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 10:55:58 PM
Quote from: Itchy on August 01, 2020, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 10:25:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2020, 09:39:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 08:40:32 PM
5 months in they need to reflect on why there is still a large outbreak in a factory and ensure that it is the last one.

Because one person gets it and it's spreads in a factory environment quicker.. you can put in all the measures you want but it can't always make it 100% safe.

I bet you €50 that all the required measures were not operated properly.

Don't think you can say that. Could worker's for example be sharing accommodation outside of work?

That might explain how someone got Covid, but not why it spread in the factory.

Working is a struggle for everyone! Even hospitals couldn't get it right... I wouldn't be too harsh people don't intentionally pass it on, employees and employers are all responsible. I'm sure it wasn't their intention..

At least hospitals were hit early on, when the virus was relatively unknown.

What excuse is there now? Airborne transmission is well established now.

But if the company is following procedures and carrying out Covid risk assessments then it's the duty of staff to follow and enforce it...

outside of work it's impossible to manage.. but the government's have opened up so it's going to happen, these clusters will continue to throw up spikes, again we've been managing better the treatments
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 02, 2020, 12:48:08 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2020, 11:03:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 10:55:58 PM
Quote from: Itchy on August 01, 2020, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 10:25:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2020, 09:39:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 08:40:32 PM
5 months in they need to reflect on why there is still a large outbreak in a factory and ensure that it is the last one.

Because one person gets it and it's spreads in a factory environment quicker.. you can put in all the measures you want but it can't always make it 100% safe.

I bet you €50 that all the required measures were not operated properly.

Don't think you can say that. Could worker's for example be sharing accommodation outside of work?

That might explain how someone got Covid, but not why it spread in the factory.

Working is a struggle for everyone! Even hospitals couldn't get it right... I wouldn't be too harsh people don't intentionally pass it on, employees and employers are all responsible. I'm sure it wasn't their intention..

They need to investigate and find out what the problem was. Perhaps it was unanticipated, perhaps it was cutting corners, but they need to understand it and make it does not happen elsewhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on August 02, 2020, 01:00:14 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 02, 2020, 12:48:08 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2020, 11:03:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 10:55:58 PM
Quote from: Itchy on August 01, 2020, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 10:25:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2020, 09:39:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 08:40:32 PM
5 months in they need to reflect on why there is still a large outbreak in a factory and ensure that it is the last one.

Because one person gets it and it's spreads in a factory environment quicker.. you can put in all the measures you want but it can't always make it 100% safe.

I bet you €50 that all the required measures were not operated properly.

Don't think you can say that. Could worker's for example be sharing accommodation outside of work?

That might explain how someone got Covid, but not why it spread in the factory.

Working is a struggle for everyone! Even hospitals couldn't get it right... I wouldn't be too harsh people don't intentionally pass it on, employees and employers are all responsible. I'm sure it wasn't their intention..

They need to investigate and find out what the problem was. Perhaps it was unanticipated, perhaps it was cutting corners, but they need to understand it and make it does not happen elsewhere.
Extroplating what is happening in meat processing factories in the north, a lot of them are employing foreign nationals who are packed into shared accommodation outside their shift in the factory so there is no escaping the risk.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on August 02, 2020, 07:13:46 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/08/01/elderly-may-asked-stay-home-ministers-blueprint-avoid-new-lockdown/

Elderly may be asked to stay at home under UK ministers' blueprint to avoid new lockdown

Enhanced shielding, tighter local measures and sealing off the capital are among proposals to be explored

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on August 02, 2020, 09:03:37 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 10:55:58 PM
Quote from: Itchy on August 01, 2020, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 10:25:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2020, 09:39:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 08:40:32 PM
5 months in they need to reflect on why there is still a large outbreak in a factory and ensure that it is the last one.

Because one person gets it and it's spreads in a factory environment quicker.. you can put in all the measures you want but it can't always make it 100% safe.

I bet you €50 that all the required measures were not operated properly.

Don't think you can say that. Could worker's for example be sharing accommodation outside of work?

That might explain how someone got Covid, but not why it spread in the factory.

My point is you don't know it spread in the factory. Many meat factories employ cheap labour from Eastern Europe and elsewhere, I can think of one that is all Brazilian and another Pakistani. These minority groups live in very isolated pods in the towns. There is also the warm bed phenomenon where worker A does 12 hour shift and worker B comes home from his 12 hour shift and takes worker A bed.

I cant say whether the company in this case had good precautions but id find it incredible if they were ignoring covid. Where I work we are struggling with people behaviours at work. As lockdiwn has eased people are becoming complacent and when you turn your back not adhering to social distancing. We were thinking about using disciplinary process against those people but then we figured people would deny their close contacts  if they had it for fear of getting a warning. Factories and places of work do not have it easy in this thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 02, 2020, 10:12:33 AM
Continued advice and training and monitoring is the only way, discipline procedures should be the very last resort.

Factory employers are not responsible for their staff after working hours, unless they also supply the accommodation
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dinny Breen on August 02, 2020, 10:34:10 AM
Quote from: Itchy on August 02, 2020, 09:03:37 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 10:55:58 PM
Quote from: Itchy on August 01, 2020, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 10:25:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2020, 09:39:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 08:40:32 PM
5 months in they need to reflect on why there is still a large outbreak in a factory and ensure that it is the last one.

Because one person gets it and it's spreads in a factory environment quicker.. you can put in all the measures you want but it can't always make it 100% safe.

I bet you €50 that all the required measures were not operated properly.

Don't think you can say that. Could worker's for example be sharing accommodation outside of work?

That might explain how someone got Covid, but not why it spread in the factory.

My point is you don't know it spread in the factory. Many meat factories employ cheap labour from Eastern Europe and elsewhere, I can think of one that is all Brazilian and another Pakistani. These minority groups live in very isolated pods in the towns. There is also the warm bed phenomenon where worker A does 12 hour shift and worker B comes home from his 12 hour shift and takes worker A bed.

I cant say whether the company in this case had good precautions but id find it incredible if they were ignoring covid. Where I work we are struggling with people behaviours at work. As lockdiwn has eased people are becoming complacent and when you turn your back not adhering to social distancing. We were thinking about using disciplinary process against those people but then we figured people would deny their close contacts  if they had it for fear of getting a warning. Factories and places of work do not have it easy in this thing.

The labour in meat factories isn't cheap, it's bloody hard work though, too hard for the locals. Majority of workers though are here to make money, they will reduce costs by living 6 to 8 in a 3 bedroom house. These guys depending on their skill level earn €10 to €20 an hour.

We will experience these random spikes but we need to learn and be better going forward.

I am on holidays and after spending 4 days in Waterford and West Cork, where there was loads of social distancing and patience, now in Kenmare, shocking levels of complacency regarding social distancing and masks. I wouldn't be surprised if Kerry was hit with a spike in 2 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on August 02, 2020, 11:41:04 AM
QuoteI am on holidays and after spending 4 days in Waterford and West Cork, where there was loads of social distancing and patience, now in Kenmare, shocking levels of complacency regarding social distancing and masks. I wouldn't be surprised if Kerry was hit with a spike in 2 weeks.

Just reading an article in the paper where St. Tropez is party central for the last few weeks with zero social distancing and zero mask wearing yet no "spike" just yet.

Good to see that France has no increase in hospitalisation over the last while either.

Sweden's economic statistics due out next week, they should make for an interesting debate whatever the outcome.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on August 02, 2020, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on August 02, 2020, 10:34:10 AM
Quote from: Itchy on August 02, 2020, 09:03:37 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 10:55:58 PM
Quote from: Itchy on August 01, 2020, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 10:25:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2020, 09:39:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2020, 08:40:32 PM
5 months in they need to reflect on why there is still a large outbreak in a factory and ensure that it is the last one.

Because one person gets it and it's spreads in a factory environment quicker.. you can put in all the measures you want but it can't always make it 100% safe.

I bet you €50 that all the required measures were not operated properly.

Don't think you can say that. Could worker's for example be sharing accommodation outside of work?

That might explain how someone got Covid, but not why it spread in the factory.

My point is you don't know it spread in the factory. Many meat factories employ cheap labour from Eastern Europe and elsewhere, I can think of one that is all Brazilian and another Pakistani. These minority groups live in very isolated pods in the towns. There is also the warm bed phenomenon where worker A does 12 hour shift and worker B comes home from his 12 hour shift and takes worker A bed.

I cant say whether the company in this case had good precautions but id find it incredible if they were ignoring covid. Where I work we are struggling with people behaviours at work. As lockdiwn has eased people are becoming complacent and when you turn your back not adhering to social distancing. We were thinking about using disciplinary process against those people but then we figured people would deny their close contacts  if they had it for fear of getting a warning. Factories and places of work do not have it easy in this thing.

The labour in meat factories isn't cheap, it's bloody hard work though, too hard for the locals. Majority of workers though are here to make money, they will reduce costs by living 6 to 8 in a 3 bedroom house. These guys depending on their skill level earn €10 to €20 an hour.

We will experience these random spikes but we need to learn and be better going forward.

I am on holidays and after spending 4 days in Waterford and West Cork, where there was loads of social distancing and patience, now in Kenmare, shocking levels of complacency regarding social distancing and masks. I wouldn't be surprised if Kerry was hit with a spike in 2 weeks.

Fair enough if not cheap, my point was that they are foreign workers primarily, as you say living in large numbers in their own pods. There is not much a factory can do to stop Covid if that is how their employees live when they finish work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 02, 2020, 02:23:05 PM
Quote from: highorlow on August 02, 2020, 11:41:04 AM
QuoteI am on holidays and after spending 4 days in Waterford and West Cork, where there was loads of social distancing and patience, now in Kenmare, shocking levels of complacency regarding social distancing and masks. I wouldn't be surprised if Kerry was hit with a spike in 2 weeks.

Just reading an article in the paper where St. Tropez is party central for the last few weeks with zero social distancing and zero mask wearing yet no "spike" just yet.

Good to see that France has no increase in hospitalisation over the last while either.

Sweden's economic statistics due out next week, they should make for an interesting debate whatever the outcome.

A spike will only happen if there is somebody in one of these gatherings to spread it so any large gathering may or may not spread things. The more people have of them the more likely they are though.

I would still suspect Sweden's economy will take a big enough hit as even without lockdown people are probably more paranoid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on August 02, 2020, 02:23:58 PM
Is it true the recent rise in cases in Clare, Limerick came from a funeral?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on August 02, 2020, 02:56:19 PM
Some rich dude living in lahinch private jetted off to Portugal with 9 buddies and came back with it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 02, 2020, 06:20:08 PM
Numbers for this week and not a good week with cluster outbreaks.

The numbers for the last week.

Deaths in the ROI = 1 ( 2 less than last week)
Cases this week = 286 ( 124 more cases than last week)

Important week ahead to make sure all clusters are under control and we get cut the weekly number of cases in half
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on August 02, 2020, 07:51:24 PM
The numbers are really taking off again. It looks like it will be back to some type of stricter lockdown again. I can't beleive they had people back in the shops and on public transport without initially forcing them to wear masks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 02, 2020, 08:24:02 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on August 02, 2020, 07:51:24 PM
The numbers are really taking off again. It looks like it will be back to some type of stricter lockdown again. I can't beleive they had people back in the shops and on public transport without initially forcing them to wear masks.

To be fair the numbers haven't increased because of non wearing of masks in shops. Public transport has mandatory mask wearing for a few weeks now.

If we are to have lockdown again it's more likely to happen where clusters happens than a nationwide lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on August 02, 2020, 10:05:26 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0802/1156974-ireland-coronavirus/

QuoteEarlier today, the Minister for Health said the Government will introduce random testing at airports because the "international situation is becoming more volatile

Is there any benefit to random testing? With the infection rate so low it seems pointless. Is it just for PR purposes?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on August 02, 2020, 10:10:27 PM
Australia had little or no cases for a long time whilst doing a lockdown. They open up and now have a strict lockdown. If we can keep cases to around 50/75 a day I think that will be ok. The big big big difference now is most people getting it are young and healthy so it's not hospitalising to many. That's the reality of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 02, 2020, 10:58:42 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on August 02, 2020, 07:51:24 PM
The numbers are really taking off again. It looks like it will be back to some type of stricter lockdown again. I can't beleive they had people back in the shops and on public transport without initially forcing them to wear masks.

Its not shops/transport.

Its pubs and parties that seems to be doing the bulk of the damage. Drunk people doing stupid things.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on August 02, 2020, 11:34:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on August 02, 2020, 10:10:27 PM
Australia had little or no cases for a long time whilst doing a lockdown. They open up and now have a strict lockdown. If we can keep cases to around 50/75 a day I think that will be ok. The big big big difference now is most people getting it are young and healthy so it's not hospitalising to many. That's the reality of it.

It's very interesting that the scientific message remains focussed on the virus. We really need more data on the effects of various levels of lockdown. If we commit to protecting the vulnerable , and optimising workable small sacrifices like distancing, masks, hygiene , tracing , we could stay on top of things, and avoid another lockdown . Those that want sports, club gyms, pubs etc closed , should remember that at least these are regulated environments that have significant social benefit,  as opposed to house parties , increased off-licence alcohol, unregulated gyms . Never mind the diseases related to inactivity, isolation and poverty
The death rate needs to be explored, You can not equate the impact of a death in a very frail person who is terminally ill and happy  to die, with a mother of 4 in her 40s with a delayed cancer diagnosis.
It's ironic that in a planet that has ever increasing levels of knowledge and technology, science appears to have fared  badly in terms of minimising the effect of this virus .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 02, 2020, 11:40:02 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on August 02, 2020, 10:10:27 PM
Australia had little or no cases for a long time whilst doing a lockdown. They open up and now have a strict lockdown. If we can keep cases to around 50/75 a day I think that will be ok. The big big big difference now is most people getting it are young and healthy so it's not hospitalising to many. That's the reality of it.


As long as they don't have underlying conditions these young ones, as you put it, they'll be fine, or pass it on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on August 02, 2020, 11:46:54 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on August 02, 2020, 10:10:27 PM
Australia had little or no cases for a long time whilst doing a lockdown. They open up and now have a strict lockdown. If we can keep cases to around 50/75 a day I think that will be ok. The big big big difference now is most people getting it are young and healthy so it's not hospitalising to many. That's the reality of it.

Agree with this. Protecting the elderly is paramount. I see they're considering over 50s as dangerously vulnerable. Feel sorry for Hardy and brokencrossbar etc/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on August 02, 2020, 11:53:44 PM
Pass it onto who milltown?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 02, 2020, 11:55:12 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on August 02, 2020, 11:53:44 PM
Pass it onto who milltown?

Whoever they come into contact with?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 03, 2020, 01:25:42 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on August 02, 2020, 10:10:27 PM
Australia had little or no cases for a long time whilst doing a lockdown. They open up and now have a strict lockdown. If we can keep cases to around 50/75 a day I think that will be ok. The big big big difference now is most people getting it are young and healthy so it's not hospitalising to many. That's the reality of it.

I think you need to look at the heatmap of cases in Florida that I posted previously to see how this script goes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on August 03, 2020, 08:58:58 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 03, 2020, 01:25:42 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on August 02, 2020, 10:10:27 PM
Australia had little or no cases for a long time whilst doing a lockdown. They open up and now have a strict lockdown. If we can keep cases to around 50/75 a day I think that will be ok. The big big big difference now is most people getting it are young and healthy so it's not hospitalising to many. That's the reality of it.

I think you need to look at the heatmap of cases in Florida that I posted previously to see how this script goes.

Armaghniac, I don't know why anyone would engage with this guy. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on August 03, 2020, 10:34:34 AM
I think there needs to be more info put out to young people re long term effects.

My cousin in her mid 30s caught it. No prior health difficulties. Had a seriously bad dose for weeks. They were about to hospitalize when it eased. But then got worse again, breathing difficulties so in to hospital she went. Covid 19 completely gone but it has resulted in scarring on her lungs, causing respiratory issues. Apparently not uncommon.

Damage to the heart not uncommon too but may take longer to materialize as a problem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on August 03, 2020, 10:55:34 AM
And weren't there also blood clotting issues for some ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 03, 2020, 11:10:49 AM
https://twitter.com/WCVB/status/1289667334420836352 (https://twitter.com/WCVB/status/1289667334420836352)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on August 03, 2020, 11:25:09 AM
Reading also this morning of a couple of Cruise ships being hit with COVID after restarting their season again. Why would anyone want to get on any vessel that contains groups of people in close proximity during the current pandemic??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 03, 2020, 11:30:08 AM
I saw two cruise ships in Belfast yesterday and thought exactly the same thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on August 03, 2020, 11:34:20 AM
Madness. Probably had paid and couldn't get a refund?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 03, 2020, 11:36:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 03, 2020, 11:30:08 AM
I saw two cruise ships in Belfast yesterday and thought exactly the same thing.

Repairs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on August 03, 2020, 11:36:34 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 03, 2020, 11:30:08 AM
I saw two cruise ships in Belfast yesterday and thought exactly the same thing.

I'm nearly sure they are docked for re-fits.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 03, 2020, 11:39:49 AM
That would make more sense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on August 03, 2020, 11:45:57 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on August 03, 2020, 11:25:09 AM
Reading also this morning of a couple of Cruise ships being hit with COVID after restarting their season again. Why would anyone want to get on any vessel that contains groups of people in close proximity during the current pandemic??

I'm sure someone will be quick to describe them as idiots, but the odd thing is that there will be some incredibly bright people among these cruise passengers.

The problem with covid is that it hasn't been "real" enough, not so far anyway. Even the dumbest of our race have some competency in judging personal danger, otherwise there'd be legions dying every day from eating the wrong food, out of date food, crossing roads, fighting bears, watering the TV, etc.

And for every horror story like that described above by Hound, there is a Danielle DiCenso type rumour to counteract.

(By the way, I'm not supporting the rights for people to go on a cruise during a pandemic)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 03, 2020, 12:49:22 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 03, 2020, 11:39:49 AM
That would make more sense.

Yeah think there was four in total, probably Olsen cruise ships, think he still has some control on the ship repair part of the yard..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 04, 2020, 10:15:25 AM
Barbican in Newcastle has shut (for a bit) - apparently a few workers with COVID.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 04, 2020, 10:27:55 AM
What's the odds Ireland moves into Phase 4 later today?

Somehow I just don't see it going through....hope to be wrong of course.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on August 04, 2020, 10:42:58 AM
Hope the 200 outdoor crowd limit goes to 500 whatever about the rest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on August 04, 2020, 01:33:39 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 04, 2020, 10:27:55 AM
What's the odds Ireland moves into Phase 4 later today?

Somehow I just don't see it going through....hope to be wrong of course.

Very low chance of it happening imo
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general on August 04, 2020, 01:40:53 PM
Cant see it happen with the increase in cases.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 04, 2020, 02:38:27 PM
According to some journalists and their "sources" outdoors gatherings will be increased by 500. Indoor gatherings to remain at 50 for another few weeks and non food pubs may reopen under strict guidelines.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on August 04, 2020, 03:09:41 PM
Is there a table atall to show usual deaths by flu/respiratory diseases in a normal year compared to this year including Covid?

It's just something I've wanted to see.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 04, 2020, 03:14:40 PM
Quote from: ONeill on August 04, 2020, 03:09:41 PM
Is there a table atall to show usual deaths by flu/respiratory diseases in a normal year compared to this year including Covid?

It's just something I've wanted to see.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on August 04, 2020, 03:21:43 PM
Thanks.

One of the clearest differences:

In the U.S, 155,478 people have died of COVID-19, as of August 4, 2020.*
In the U.S., from Oct. 1, 2019 – Apr. 4, 2020, the CDC estimates that 24,000 to 62,000 people died from the flu.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 04, 2020, 04:03:10 PM
Quote from: ONeill on August 04, 2020, 03:21:43 PM
Thanks.

One of the clearest differences:

In the U.S, 155,478 people have died of COVID-19, as of August 4, 2020.*
In the U.S., from Oct. 1, 2019 – Apr. 4, 2020, the CDC estimates that 24,000 to 62,000 people died from the flu.

And the gap is greater than you would think. People routinely compare deaths from people tested for Covid19 with estimated deaths from flu. However, excess mortality stats show that Covid deaths are higher than those actually tested, especially when there is widespread transmission, for instance in New England in April.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on August 04, 2020, 04:11:52 PM
Using the handful of studies that have calculated infection-fatality rates for seasonal flu, Meyerowitz-Katz determined that somewhere between 1 and 10 people die for every 100,000 that are infected. For COVID-19, that number ranges between 500 and 1,000 deaths per 100,000 infections. By his calculations, the coronavirus is likely to be 50 to 100 times more deadly than the seasonal flu, which supports the Columbia University findings.

https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/science-and-technology/2020/07/how-scientists-know-covid-19-is-way-deadlier-than-the-flu
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on August 04, 2020, 04:36:47 PM
No covid deaths in Northern Ireland for the 22nd consecutive day, 8 additional cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 04, 2020, 04:41:10 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 04, 2020, 04:36:47 PM
No covid deaths in Northern Ireland for the 22nd consecutive day, 8 additional cases.

It's beat in Ireland. It's just what we do now with regards to tourism.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 04, 2020, 05:41:44 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 04, 2020, 04:41:10 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 04, 2020, 04:36:47 PM
No covid deaths in Northern Ireland for the 22nd consecutive day, 8 additional cases.

It's beat in Ireland. It's just what we do now with regards to tourism.

I am interested in your definition of beat, the number of cases in the ROI has risen 5 times since the lowest point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2020, 05:51:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 04, 2020, 05:41:44 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 04, 2020, 04:41:10 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 04, 2020, 04:36:47 PM
No covid deaths in Northern Ireland for the 22nd consecutive day, 8 additional cases.

It's beat in Ireland. It's just what we do now with regards to tourism.

I am interested in your definition of beat, the number of cases in the ROI has risen 5 times since the lowest point.

If the cases are rising what is the south doing that's keeping the death rate down? Have they got better at treating it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on August 04, 2020, 05:54:02 PM
Beat as in anyone getting it very very rarely need treatment let alone hospital treatment. 2 people in the north in hospital 5 in the south. Cases going up median age going Down. The fact care homes were not sorted first and foremost has had a big big affect on things. When this finally gets reviewed catastrophe mistakes were made and that's the big one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on August 04, 2020, 05:55:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2020, 05:51:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 04, 2020, 05:41:44 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 04, 2020, 04:41:10 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 04, 2020, 04:36:47 PM
No covid deaths in Northern Ireland for the 22nd consecutive day, 8 additional cases.

It's beat in Ireland. It's just what we do now with regards to tourism.

I am interested in your definition of beat, the number of cases in the ROI has risen 5 times since the lowest point.

If the cases are rising what is the south doing that's keeping the death rate down? Have they got better at treating it?
Younger people getting it I'd say. Something like 80% of recent cases aged under 45.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 04, 2020, 06:05:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 04, 2020, 05:55:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2020, 05:51:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 04, 2020, 05:41:44 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 04, 2020, 04:41:10 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 04, 2020, 04:36:47 PM
No covid deaths in Northern Ireland for the 22nd consecutive day, 8 additional cases.

It's beat in Ireland. It's just what we do now with regards to tourism.

I am interested in your definition of beat, the number of cases in the ROI has risen 5 times since the lowest point.

If the cases are rising what is the south doing that's keeping the death rate down? Have they got better at treating it?
Younger people getting it I'd say. Something like 80% of recent cases aged under 45.

Younger people getting it is one reason, but there is a time lag too, if cases keep increasing then hospitalisations and deaths will increase too in due course. In these factories etc you have people of different ages and health conditions, not all of them are invulnerable and not all their relations and contacts are invulnerable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 04, 2020, 06:12:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2020, 05:51:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 04, 2020, 05:41:44 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 04, 2020, 04:41:10 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 04, 2020, 04:36:47 PM
No covid deaths in Northern Ireland for the 22nd consecutive day, 8 additional cases.

It's beat in Ireland. It's just what we do now with regards to tourism.

I am interested in your definition of beat, the number of cases in the ROI has risen 5 times since the lowest point.

If the cases are rising what is the south doing that's keeping the death rate down? Have they got better at treating it?

Maybe the strain is weakening....they said months ago there was two strains majorly in Europe. Perhaps this is now the proof. I'm sure the medical professions worldwide are pooling their resources in knowledge to no end too. We don't hear of any good news regarding this so the normal man like me wouldn't be reading about it.

Number of cases doesn't really interest me to be honest since any of us could have it right now and not know. I am interested in continuing the good work so far and looking forward.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 04, 2020, 06:18:59 PM
Looks like the government are going full cautious mode. Can understand indoor crowds remaining the same but to keep GAA crowds at 200 makes little sense.

Edit now confirmed that phase 4 stuff has to wait for at least another 3 weeks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2020, 06:39:16 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 04, 2020, 06:18:59 PM
Looks like the government are going full cautious mode. Can understand indoor crowds remaining the same but to keep GAA crowds at 200 makes little sense.

Maybe to stop them all heading to the pub afterwards and chatting about the match?

Haven't noticed less shouting (causing more droplets) from management and supporters during games lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on August 04, 2020, 07:19:12 PM
Pubs are beat. If they can't open now then that's going to be them until well into next year. A lot will never reopen, their trade long gone by that stage. Big call to condemn such a large and visible aspect of Irish culture and society.

I'm all for being cautious with this thing, but government regulation in both Ireland and the UK has become increasingly illogical and disjointed as things have been opened up. It now seems to be more about being seen to be at something than actually tackling real issues.

Why are some pubs in the south pretending to 'serve food' allowed open, while other aren't? Open both or neither.
Why was the shielding advice paused in the north at the weekend with community transmission on an upward curve? It was safer a month ago for these people when they were told to keep locking themselves away.
What's actually being done to tackle large gatherings in houses and parks, which have demonstrably led to outbreaks on the island?
What's actually being done to ensure adherence to good practices in food processing facilities and group residential facilities, which have demonstrably led to outbreaks on the island?
Why is mask wearing being recommended sometimes, by some officials, in some settings, but never with any actual enforcement? If they help matters then make people wear them ffs.
Why are half the young ones in the country allowed jet off to Spain, Portugal and where ever else they want with nothing more in their way than some piss weak 'recommendations' against travel?
What alternative activities or schemes have been offered to these same young ones who've had their social lives decimated, education suspended, and job prospects voided?

But sure we'll keep the pubs shut, that'll solve things...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 04, 2020, 11:54:24 PM
Another vaccine looking good, albeit at an earlier stage. Since these are a bit different hopefully one can prove suitable where another one doesn't.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/novavax-says-its-covid-19-vaccine-shows-promising-results-in-early-study-2020-08-04

"It's highly immunogenic," or able to produce immune responses, Gregory Glenn, Novavax's president of research and development, said in an interview. The vaccine also induced a favorable type of response from other components of the immune system, known as T-cells, which researchers think may help avoid a rare complication when a vaccine worsens the severity of disease.

Novavax, of Gaithersburg, Md., said the results support further testing, including a large, 30,000-person final-stage study slated to start in the fall. That study will test whether the immune responses triggered by the vaccine safely protect people from Covid-19.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on August 05, 2020, 03:39:11 PM
Newcastle looks to have had a breakout here with many of the shops closing because staff have tested positive.  Supervalu and now Kent Amusements.  I was actually up in the town briefly on Sunday as I went for a walk in the Mournes.  It was absolutely packed...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Lazer on August 05, 2020, 04:25:17 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on August 05, 2020, 03:39:11 PM
Newcastle looks to have had a breakout here with many of the shops closing because staff have tested positive.  Supervalu and now Kent Amusements.  I was actually up in the town briefly on Sunday as I went for a walk in the Mournes.  It was absolutely packed...

Bon Bon as well, and some in Castlewellan - Eat Fresh, and Mulhollands Bar both had someone test positive and Tranquil Beauty is closed pending covid test result
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 05, 2020, 05:40:43 PM
Lockdown reintroduced in Aberdeen, this dose quickly comes back if you do not take care, and many people are not taking care.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 05, 2020, 09:56:00 PM
I wonder would you see this in the likes of Portrush. I imagine people would have flocked there too during this last few weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 05, 2020, 11:12:56 PM
ROI Hospital figures as of 8pm tonight.

In hospital 9
In ICU 6

Location of patients

Tallaght 2
Beaumont 1
Mater 1
Drogheda 1
Cavan 1
UH Limerick 1
Kilkenny 1
Galway 1
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 06, 2020, 09:31:45 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 05, 2020, 09:56:00 PM
I wonder would you see this in the likes of Portrush. I imagine people would have flocked there too during this last few weeks.

We've seen it especially in the North at Crawfordsburn (the rave), Portrush and Portstewart are always stuffed on any sniff of sun, we had the unsocially distanced BLM protest at Belfast which I was in City at same time.

We all seen the pictures and videos of Dublin the night the bars opened in Temple Bar. The 'mass gatherings' have been happening for the past few months

The damage at this stage seems to be continually house parties, nearly in every situation especially in Northern Ireland....whats the solution to that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on August 06, 2020, 10:54:57 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 05, 2020, 11:12:56 PM
ROI Hospital figures as of 8pm tonight.

In hospital 9
In ICU 6

Location of patients

Tallaght 2
Beaumont 1
Mater 1
Drogheda 1
Cavan 1
UH Limerick 1
Kilkenny 1
Galway 1
There was an odd stat on the RTÉ news last night saying 15 hospitalised confirmed cases of Covid (in line with your post). But then there was another bigger number (can't remember exactly, think it was high 20s) of suspected cases of Covid in hospital.

Surely they could find out pretty quickly if someone has to be hospitalized with suspected Covid whether he/she actually has it or not!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cavan19 on August 06, 2020, 12:34:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 06, 2020, 10:54:57 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 05, 2020, 11:12:56 PM
ROI Hospital figures as of 8pm tonight.

In hospital 9
In ICU 6

Location of patients

Tallaght 2
Beaumont 1
Mater 1
Drogheda 1
Cavan 1
UH Limerick 1
Kilkenny 1
Galway 1
There was an odd stat on the RTÉ news last night saying 15 hospitalised confirmed cases of Covid (in line with your post). But then there was another bigger number (can't remember exactly, think it was high 20s) of suspected cases of Covid in hospital.

Surely they could find out pretty quickly if someone has to be hospitalized with suspected Covid whether he/she actually has it or not!

I think it is people who have been admitted for something non covid related who have been tested and are in the process of getting results back.  Its not something the public need to know and it seems to be a way of putting more fear into people. The same as the minister for health rambling on about community transmission while it is clear that the majority of current cases are related to  direct provision centres, Meat plants etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 06, 2020, 12:35:56 PM
What exactly is community transmission as well? You have got it somewhere in the community. It just feels a bit of a catch all and not very specific.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cavan19 on August 06, 2020, 12:43:56 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 06, 2020, 12:35:56 PM
What exactly is community transmission as well? You have got it somewhere in the community. It just feels a bit of a catch all and not very specific.

Its where they cannot find out where an individual caught the virus where as when they say close contact they have identified who has infected the individual and can control it better by finding that persons close contacts.

 

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 06, 2020, 12:53:06 PM
Ah. Cheers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 06, 2020, 02:08:07 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on August 06, 2020, 12:34:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 06, 2020, 10:54:57 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 05, 2020, 11:12:56 PM
ROI Hospital figures as of 8pm tonight.

In hospital 9
In ICU 6

Location of patients

Tallaght 2
Beaumont 1
Mater 1
Drogheda 1
Cavan 1
UH Limerick 1
Kilkenny 1
Galway 1
There was an odd stat on the RTÉ news last night saying 15 hospitalised confirmed cases of Covid (in line with your post). But then there was another bigger number (can’t remember exactly, think it was high 20s) of suspected cases of Covid in hospital.

Surely they could find out pretty quickly if someone has to be hospitalized with suspected Covid whether he/she actually has it or not!

I think it is people who have been admitted for something non covid related who have been tested and are in the process of getting results back.  Its not something the public need to know and it seems to be a way of putting more fear into people. The same as the minister for health rambling on about community transmission while it is clear that the majority of current cases are related to  direct provision centres, Meat plants etc.

Yes correct on both counts. Pretty much every patient in hospital are classed as suspected that's been the case since February, yet only recently journalists are adding in those numbers to make things look more dramatic.  The number to focus on is confirmed cases in hospital and ICU.

Stephen Donnelly is doing some rambling alright, has appeared on TV, radio a number of times in the last few days telling those watching or listening that community transmissions are increasing even though they have decreased and are in single figures the last 4 days.

Last nine days Kildare 122, Laois 37, Clare 27, Limerick 19, Wexford 11,Offaly 10 the majority of cases from those counties are associated with cluster outbreaks or are close contacts of a confirmed case from clusters. The rest of the counties haven't got double figures in the last 9 days and many with 1 or zero cases.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on August 06, 2020, 03:29:55 PM
Donnelly was an expert on everything as he hopped around from Party to Party but is being found out now like most loudmouths do eventually.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on August 06, 2020, 03:54:41 PM
43 cases in the North - assume most of them around Newcastle/Castlewellan?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 06, 2020, 04:49:13 PM
Quote from: Taylor on August 06, 2020, 03:54:41 PM
43 cases in the North - assume most of them around Newcastle/Castlewellan?

Crumlin.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 06, 2020, 05:16:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 06, 2020, 03:29:55 PM
Donnelly was an expert on everything as he hopped around from Party to Party but is being found out now like most loudmouths do eventually.

He is and I'm not one bit sorry for him.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 06, 2020, 07:01:02 PM
69 cases today in the 26, that is 10 times the average at the lowest point.
20% of these are community cases, which would be 14 or so, therefore community cases are increasing also, despite comments above about a decrease.

Not a good picture across the island, people need to tighten up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 06, 2020, 07:09:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 06, 2020, 07:01:02 PM
69 cases today in the 26, that is 10 times the average at the lowest point.
20% of these are community cases, which would be 14 or so, therefore community cases are increasing also, despite comments above about a decrease.

Not a good picture across the island, people need to tighten up.

Of today's 69 reported cases 2 has been identified as community transmission. The last 4 days its been 5 or under a day.

5 deaths reported but 4 of them are from April to June.

Dr Glynn saying a similar number of cases are expected again tomorrow due to more cluster outbreaks in Offaly, Laois and Offaly. Until these cluster are got under control we will see similar daily numbers for the next few weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 06, 2020, 07:32:38 PM
So the education minister's approach to COVID is that of an ostrich.

Stick yer head in the sand and hope it all goes away.

An utter embarrassment to humanity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on August 06, 2020, 07:51:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 06, 2020, 07:32:38 PM
So the education minister's approach to COVID is that of an ostrich.

Stick yer head in the sand and hope it all goes away.

An utter embarrassment to humanity.

Any of these government officials going to put any plans in place that these clusters outbreaks become much less in the weeks ahead?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 06, 2020, 08:23:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 06, 2020, 07:32:38 PM
So the education minister's approach to COVID is that of an ostrich.

Stick yer head in the sand and hope it all goes away.

An utter embarrassment to humanity.

Herd immunity seems ago go...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on August 06, 2020, 09:20:27 PM
Shane Beatty of newstalk said 80 Covid-19 cases confirmed in Timahoe, Co. Kildare this evening from 243 tests carried out on workers at O'Brien Foods.

We are probably looking at over 100 cases tomorrow.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on August 06, 2020, 09:32:52 PM
Are they wearing face shields in these factories ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on August 06, 2020, 11:13:04 PM
QuoteShane Beatty of newstalk said 80 Covid-19 cases confirmed in Timahoe, Co. Kildare this evening from 243 tests carried out on workers at O'Brien Foods.

We are probably looking at over 100 cases tomorrow.

First case in the same place was on 12th May. Most cases are asymptomatic, I wonder was there bits of covid floating around in these workers since May?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 06, 2020, 11:20:47 PM
Quote from: highorlow on August 06, 2020, 11:13:04 PM
QuoteShane Beatty of newstalk said 80 Covid-19 cases confirmed in Timahoe, Co. Kildare this evening from 243 tests carried out on workers at O'Brien Foods.

We are probably looking at over 100 cases tomorrow.

First case in the same place was on 12th May. Most cases are asymptomatic, I wonder was there bits of covid floating around in these workers since May?

Floating around since May? So you get it, don't have symptom, I get that. But it stays with you for months? Plus you continually pass it on. I thought after 2 weeks it's meant to have cleared your system?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on August 06, 2020, 11:35:15 PM
Ah it's just something I was reading about.

I was expecting the site case a few weeks ago to cause a spike, i.e 20 site workers x 5 contacts should have given us 100 cases a few days later, that didn't happen. By the same measure the timahoe cluster should give us 5 x 140 in a few days. It probably won't though as the construction site cases didn't follow through. I'm sure the lads in Maynooth will have their computers doing the calculations.

"Usually, when people recover from acute viral infections, their immune response kills the cells affected to eliminate the virus," says Diane Griffin, a virologist at the John Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. But when viruses infect long-lived cells, such as neurons, the immune system can't afford to destroy them. That means "you don't actually get rid of all the virus genome," she says; instead, the virus might hide in parts of the body for long periods.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/science/2020/06/how-long-does-coronavirus-last-inside-the-body-cvd
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 07, 2020, 12:12:31 PM
(https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=522344&stc=1&d=1596792863)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on August 07, 2020, 05:30:24 PM
Local lockdown restrictions for 2 weeks for counties Offaly, Laois and Kildare expected to be confirmed shortly.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 07, 2020, 07:04:53 PM
98 cases today for some context June 29 to 5th the ROI had only 91 cases.

Close to 70 of today's cases are from the three counties going into lockdown tonight. Good news only 4 was from community transmission while the bad news was 4 deaths today and if from today instead of months ago its a rise as we had only 3 deaths in the last 2 weeks

Edit the 4 deaths are from May, June, July and a few days ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hereiam on August 07, 2020, 10:41:13 PM
Was at a sheep mart this evening and let me tell you its only a matter of time before the marts are closed again. 4 deep at the ring side and stands 80% full, no social distancing at all. Few men wearing masks but alot were not. Was no natural ventilation to speak off as it was a still warm evening so it was prime conditions for a bit of COVID to spread. Glad to get out of the place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on August 08, 2020, 06:26:57 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 07, 2020, 07:04:53 PM
98 cases today for some context June 29 to 5th the ROI had only 91 cases.

Close to 70 of today's cases are from the three counties going into lockdown tonight. Good news only 4 was from community transmission while the bad news was 4 deaths today and if from today instead of months ago its a rise as we had only 3 deaths in the last 2 weeks

Edit the 4 deaths are from May, June, July and a few days ago.

Prof Philip Nolan, chair of the NPHET Irish Epidemiological Modelling Advisory Group, said the reproduction number for the virus is now estimated to be 1.8.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on August 08, 2020, 06:32:30 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 07, 2020, 07:04:53 PM
98 cases today for some context June 29 to 5th the ROI had only 91 cases.


Close to 70 of today's cases are from the three counties going into lockdown tonight. Good news only 4 was from community transmission while the bad news was 4 deaths today and if from today instead of months ago its a rise as we had only 3 deaths in the last 2 weeks

Edit the 4 deaths are from May, June, July and a few days ago.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/main-points-what-restrictions-have-been-imposed-on-kildare-offaly-and-laois-1.4324852?mode=amp

Main points of the new restrictions for the midlands

Travel and transport
Residents of Kildare, Offaly and Laois can only travel within their own county, other than for the following reasons:

To travel to and from work where that work cannot be done from home;

To attend medical appointments, collect medicines and other health products;

For vital family reasons, like providing care to children, elderly or vulnerable people, but excluding social family visits;

For farming purposes, food production or care of animals.

People are asked not to travel into any of these counties, other than for the reasons above, and you need to travel through these counties to get somewhere else.

People are asked not stop in Kildare, Laois or Offaly during a journey unless for essential purposes.

Public and private transport
Residents of these counties should not use public transport unless it is absolutely necessary. And where possible they should not share private vehicles with others from outside their household.

Economic activity and work
Anyone in these counties who can work from home should work from home.

Cafes and restaurants
All cafes and restaurants, including bars operating as restaurants, should only offer takeaway or delivery, or outdoor dining (maximum 15 people with strict physical distancing). Otherwise they should close

Hotels can remain open but must limit occupancy to essential non-social and non-tourist reasons. Existing guests can remain for the duration of their booking.

Indoor gatherings
All indoor gatherings should be restricted to a maximum of six people from no more than three households, while maintaining physical distancing.

Outdoor gatherings
Outdoor gatherings should be limited to a maximum of 15 people, while maintaining physical distancing.

Cultural events and religious services
All cinemas, theatres, casinos, betting shops, bingo halls, gyms, leisure centres, swimming pools, exercise and dance studios must close at midnight.

Attendance at a funeral service and burial or cremation ceremony should be limited to 25 outdoors. Indoor events connected to the funeral are limited to a maximum of six people.

Places of worship remain open for private prayer, while services are to be held online.

Sport
No sporting events or matches should take place, with the following exemptions:

Non-contact training outdoors in a maximum group of 15 people may continue;

Professional and elite sports and horseracing may continue behind closed doors;

Inter-county training (maximum 15 people) and fixtures may continue behind closed doors.

Residential and healthcare facilities
Visiting in long-term residential care facilities, acute settings and prisons will generally be suspended in the first instance with the exception of the most critical and compassionate circumstances (for example end of life).

Advice for those over 70 years or medically vulnerable
The over 70s or medically vulnerable are advised to exercise individual judgement, and to stay at home as much as possible, and limit interactions to a very small network for short periods of time, while remaining physically distanced.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 08, 2020, 01:56:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 08, 2020, 06:26:57 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 07, 2020, 07:04:53 PM
98 cases today for some context June 29 to 5th the ROI had only 91 cases.

Close to 70 of today's cases are from the three counties going into lockdown tonight. Good news only 4 was from community transmission while the bad news was 4 deaths today and if from today instead of months ago its a rise as we had only 3 deaths in the last 2 weeks

Edit the 4 deaths are from May, June, July and a few days ago.

Prof Philip Nolan, chair of the NPHET Irish Epidemiological Modelling Advisory Group, said the reproduction number for the virus is now estimated to be 1.8.

He and has colleagues have regularly said cluster outbreaks would drive up reproduction number and counties with low cases number would have a much lower RO number.

The main concern and reason for the restrictions in Kildare, Offaly and Laois is to keep community transmission cases as low as possible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on August 08, 2020, 06:11:18 PM
174 new cases today.. :-\
110 in Kildare alone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 08, 2020, 06:25:55 PM
I don't really get this concept of "community transmission".

Seems a sort of unfounded comforting or coping mechanism to me.

Everybody is in the community.

Meat plant workers do not exist on their own island, they exist in the community.

Nobody exists outside of the community, nobody exists in total isolation from everybody else.

Humans are the community.

Anyway, 174 cases is a very bad number.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 08, 2020, 06:29:08 PM
If you live in a village that has no cases and the neighbouring village has cases then it's a 'community outbreak?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 08, 2020, 07:03:54 PM
Meat workers may get the virus at work and then transmit it in the community, hence the lockdown.
These numbers are bad, you couldn't open schools in Kildare with the likes of that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 08, 2020, 07:16:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 08, 2020, 06:25:55 PM
I don't really get this concept of "community transmission".

Seems a sort of unfounded comforting or coping mechanism to me.

Everybody is in the community.

Meat plant workers do not exist on their own island, they exist in the community.

Nobody exists outside of the community, nobody exists in total isolation from everybody else.

Humans are the community.

Anyway, 174 cases is a very bad number.

It's not known where the virus was picked up with Community transmission cases. In March to April we had high community transmission hence why we were getting at its peak 5500 weekly cases.

It's going to be over 100 a day for cases for at least the next week according to the medical experts as all close contacts from these clusters are still to be picked up. Knowing who has it and where they got it makes it easier to contain.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 08, 2020, 07:52:38 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 08, 2020, 07:16:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 08, 2020, 06:25:55 PM
I don't really get this concept of "community transmission".

Seems a sort of unfounded comforting or coping mechanism to me.

Everybody is in the community.

Meat plant workers do not exist on their own island, they exist in the community.

Nobody exists outside of the community, nobody exists in total isolation from everybody else.

Humans are the community.

Anyway, 174 cases is a very bad number.

It's not known where the virus was picked up with Community transmission cases. In March to April we had high community transmission hence why we were getting at its peak 5500 weekly cases.

It's going to be over 100 a day for cases for at least the next week according to the medical experts as all close contacts from these clusters are still to be picked up. Knowing who has it and where they got it makes it easier to contain.
OK, I get that, I suppose my point is more directed at the actual phrasing - "community transmission".

Because what it really means is "we don't know where or how person X got the virus". Infection of unknown origin.

Which is a different thing to actual community transmission, which accounts for 100% of cases - as we're all in the community.

"Community transmission", inverted commas included, is just a comforting euphemism for something that is a scarier reality.

I think the authorities would be better off using a term that is obvious in terms of people understanding it, rather than a term that appears to mean something else.

Clarity of language is essential in a pandemic.

For clarity reasons I would also prefer the term "physical distancing" (which is bleedin' obvious in terms of meaning) to "social distancing", which is a new term and slightly vague in terms of what it entails.












Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on August 08, 2020, 08:11:56 PM
I don't like the phrase 'wet pubs'.

Although a dry pub sounds catastrophic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 08, 2020, 10:00:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 08, 2020, 06:25:55 PM
I don't really get this concept of "community transmission".

Its a euphemism for "we don't know who they got it from".

edit: ah, seen you got there anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 08, 2020, 10:13:38 PM
Quote from: ONeill on August 08, 2020, 08:11:56 PM
I don't like the phrase 'wet pubs'.

Although a dry pub sounds catastrophic.
They love a good wet pub in Galway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPU8-KAN70s
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on August 08, 2020, 10:26:38 PM
I think the Gov missed out on the messaging. I'm probably not alone in being sick of listening to the radio adverts to "stay safe" etc and I turn the channel over now when I here it.

They should've done the adverts in other languages for the ethnic minorities as it's not Paddy that's spreading this anymore, the spreaders are  travellers, Muslims and foreign nationals.

Given the snowflake era we are in if they did adverts in different languages they'd be called out as racists.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 08, 2020, 10:33:26 PM
Quote from: highorlow on August 08, 2020, 10:26:38 PM
I think the Gov missed out on the messaging. I'm probably not alone in being sick of listening to the radio adverts to "stay safe" etc and I turn the channel over now when I here it.

They should've done the adverts in other languages for the ethnic minorities as it's not Paddy that's spreading this anymore, the spreaders are  travellers, Muslims and foreign nationals.

Given the snowflake era we are in if they did adverts in different languages they'd be called out as racists.

There is no point in running ads on the radio in different languages, this message should be sent in a more directed way.

These meat plants need to be brought under control. Either they implement proper spacing, as everyone else has had to do, or they test everyone every day at their own expense. You might find that faced with the latter that the former somehow becomes possible after all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on August 08, 2020, 10:41:48 PM
QuoteThese meat plants need to be brought under control. Either they implement proper spacing, as everyone else has had to do, or they test everyone every day at their own expense. You might find that faced with the latter that the former somehow becomes possible after all.

100%. I'm in the construction industry and naturally enough we had a few outlier sites but given the scale of works things are done correctly.

The meat producers are likely complacent as they never shut and were always regarded as "essential" ; people need their cheap salty ham.

Instead of locking down the good people of Offaly and Laois the Government should just lock
Down the meat factories for 2 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on August 08, 2020, 10:48:48 PM
Quote from: highorlow on August 08, 2020, 10:26:38 PM
I think the Gov missed out on the messaging. I'm probably not alone in being sick of listening to the radio adverts to "stay safe" etc and I turn the channel over now when I here it.

They should've done the adverts in other languages for the ethnic minorities as it's not Paddy that's spreading this anymore, the spreaders are  travellers, Muslims and foreign nationals.

Given the snowflake era we are in if they did adverts in different languages they'd be called out as racists.

Is that you Donald?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 09, 2020, 06:00:27 PM
Case this week = 550 (264 more cases than last week)

Deaths in ROI, 10 was reported this week but i think at least 7 of them didn't happen this week. We had 1 reported death last week.

Thats the highest weekly number of case we had since May. Going by the comments from medical experts i think we'll do well to keep under 550 cases for the week ahead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2020, 06:17:54 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 09, 2020, 06:00:27 PM
Case this week = 550 (264 more cases than last week)

Deaths in ROI, 10 was reported this week but i think at least 7 of them didn't happen this week. We had 1 reported death last week.

Thats the highest weekly number of case we had since May. Going by the comments from medical experts i think we'll do well to keep under 550 cases for the week ahead.

What's the test rate like? Are there more people taking tests now, which will obviously throw up more cases or is it getting worse?

What would be the breakdown on hospitalisation,  ICU, no symptoms?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 09, 2020, 06:31:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2020, 06:17:54 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 09, 2020, 06:00:27 PM
Case this week = 550 (264 more cases than last week)

Deaths in ROI, 10 was reported this week but i think at least 7 of them didn't happen this week. We had 1 reported death last week.

Thats the highest weekly number of case we had since May. Going by the comments from medical experts i think we'll do well to keep under 550 cases for the week ahead.

What’s the test rate like? Are there more people taking tests now, which will obviously throw up more cases or is it getting worse?

What would be the breakdown on hospitalisation,  ICU, no symptoms?

Around 30,000 tests was carried out the last 7 days down from last week when 35,000 tests was done. I'm expecting the following week to increase testing again.

No spike in hospital numbers yet thankfully.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2020, 06:43:31 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 09, 2020, 06:31:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2020, 06:17:54 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 09, 2020, 06:00:27 PM
Case this week = 550 (264 more cases than last week)

Deaths in ROI, 10 was reported this week but i think at least 7 of them didn't happen this week. We had 1 reported death last week.

Thats the highest weekly number of case we had since May. Going by the comments from medical experts i think we'll do well to keep under 550 cases for the week ahead.

What's the test rate like? Are there more people taking tests now, which will obviously throw up more cases or is it getting worse?

What would be the breakdown on hospitalisation,  ICU, no symptoms?

Around 30,000 tests was carried out the last 7 days down from last week when 35,000 tests was done. I'm expecting the following week to increase testing again.

No spike in hospital numbers yet thankfully.

So is the strain weakening or is the age group lower so not requiring hospital treatment? I know it's large cases but hopefully the death rate stays as low as it can
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on August 09, 2020, 06:55:42 PM
It seems to be staying at around 80% of the cases being under 45s.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 09, 2020, 07:16:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2020, 06:43:31 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 09, 2020, 06:31:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2020, 06:17:54 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 09, 2020, 06:00:27 PM
Case this week = 550 (264 more cases than last week)

Deaths in ROI, 10 was reported this week but i think at least 7 of them didn't happen this week. We had 1 reported death last week.

Thats the highest weekly number of case we had since May. Going by the comments from medical experts i think we'll do well to keep under 550 cases for the week ahead.

What's the test rate like? Are there more people taking tests now, which will obviously throw up more cases or is it getting worse?

What would be the breakdown on hospitalisation,  ICU, no symptoms?

Around 30,000 tests was carried out the last 7 days down from last week when 35,000 tests was done. I'm expecting the following week to increase testing again.

No spike in hospital numbers yet thankfully.

So is the strain weakening or is the age group lower so not requiring hospital treatment? I know it's large cases but hopefully the death rate stays as low as it can

That seems to be the way for the last few weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on August 10, 2020, 12:41:13 AM
Hopefully the people getting it now are only getting ordinary flu like symptoms and not the lung scarring and other stuff that's making the headlines. I've also heard of a good few older people back in March that had it and it was just like a head cold and passed through them. We might be ok here for winter as we had a severe flu season last winter unlike the Italians and Spanish who were caught off guard.

It's a case of personal responsibility at this stage but some of the foreign nationals don't get that, particular the Muslims and the ethic travelling community.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 01:16:05 AM
Quote from: highorlow on August 10, 2020, 12:41:13 AM

It's a case of personal responsibility at this stage but some of the foreign nationals don't get that, particular the Muslims and the ethic travelling community.
This is like bad satire.

Sure why focus on the actual personal responsibility of the owners and management at meat processing plants to ensure safe working conditions when you can just lump it all on low wage workers and ethnic minorities.

The vacuous right-wing mantra of "personal responsibility" is both a dog whistle and a self-consciously fraudulent grift to protect untrammelled corporate power, and lack of corporate responsibility, and incompetence or worse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 10, 2020, 02:10:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 01:16:05 AM
Quote from: highorlow on August 10, 2020, 12:41:13 AM

It's a case of personal responsibility at this stage but some of the foreign nationals don't get that, particular the Muslims and the ethic travelling community.
This is like bad satire.

Sure why focus on the actual personal responsibility of the owners and management at meat processing plants to ensure safe working conditions when you can just lump it all on low wage workers and ethnic minorities.

The vacuous right-wing mantra of "personal responsibility" is both a dog whistle and a self-consciously fraudulent grift to protect untrammelled corporate power, and lack of corporate responsibility, and incompetence or worse.

No, both the owners and the workers have responsibilities. They cannot just put the blame on the other.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on August 10, 2020, 06:35:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 01:16:05 AM
Quote from: highorlow on August 10, 2020, 12:41:13 AM

It's a case of personal responsibility at this stage but some of the foreign nationals don't get that, particular the Muslims and the ethic travelling community.
This is like bad satire.

Sure why focus on the actual personal responsibility of the owners and management at meat processing plants to ensure safe working conditions when you can just lump it all on low wage workers and ethnic minorities.

The vacuous right-wing mantra of "personal responsibility" is both a dog whistle and a self-consciously fraudulent grift to protect untrammelled corporate power, and lack of corporate responsibility, and incompetence or worse.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/meat-plant-clusters-may-be-down-to-softly-softly-approach-1.4324924?mode=amp

We know now what works to stop the virus: distance, hand hygiene, masks. We know where the risky environments are: crowded indoor spaces, meat plants, shared accommodation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on August 10, 2020, 06:58:33 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-incidence-in-the-republic-set-to-surpass-that-of-uk-1.4326076?mode=amp

The State's incidence of Covid-19 appears set to surpass that of the UK for the first time since the pandemic started, new figures show. File photograph: Valerie Macon/AFP via Getty Images

Paul Cullen, Harry McGee

about 6 hours ago

   

The State's incidence of Covid-19 appears set to surpass that of the UK for the first time since the pandemic started, new figures show.

The 14-day incidence of the disease in the Republic has increased sevenfold in the space of three weeks, to reach 15.8 cases per 100,000 of population, according to an update from the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control yesterday.

This compares to a figure of 15.9 in the UK, which a month ago had an incidence almost eight times that of Ireland. Since then, case numbers in the UK have been steady, although yesterday they exceeded 1,000 for the first time since June.

Covid-19 is now being detected at a higher rate in the State than in Germany and Slovenia and a number of other EU countries not on the Government's green list.

The figures highlight the dramatic increase in the number of cases in recent weeks, driven largely by outbreaks in food processing plants in the midlands.

Kildare Chilling in Kildare town, which has registered 150 cases, and O'Brien Fine Foods in Timahoe, with 86 cases, have suspended production, while Irish Dog Foods in Naas, where 53 cases have been reported, has shelved plans to reopen today.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyroneman on August 10, 2020, 09:34:34 AM
Anyone know what the logic is behind customers bieng asked to wear masks in shops, while staff are not?

Surely both should be?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on August 10, 2020, 09:36:11 AM
I agree on the factory owners but when a doctor in Laois had to call the guards on 2 lads that she told to self isolate and she saw them walking the streets a few hours later things aren't good.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyroneman on August 10, 2020, 09:40:08 AM
It's remarkable how little a fcuk some folk give now.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on August 10, 2020, 09:41:00 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on August 10, 2020, 09:34:34 AM
Anyone know what the logic is behind customers bieng asked to wear masks in shops, while staff are not?

Surely both should be?

Is that the current ruling?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyroneman on August 10, 2020, 10:00:06 AM
Quote from: ONeill on August 10, 2020, 09:41:00 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on August 10, 2020, 09:34:34 AM
Anyone know what the logic is behind customers bieng asked to wear masks in shops, while staff are not?

Surely both should be?

Is that the current ruling?

"From 10 August the use of face coverings in certain indoor settings, such as shops or shopping centres, will be mandatory. You must also wear a face covering on public transport"

followed by:

You don't have to wear a face covering:

    if you are under the age of 13
    if you are a member of staff or employee of the shop or shopping centre
    temporarily, if a member of staff or employee or a police officer asks you to remove it to check your identity
    If you have a reasonable excuse not to

.........
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 10:01:59 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 10, 2020, 06:35:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 01:16:05 AM
Quote from: highorlow on August 10, 2020, 12:41:13 AM

It's a case of personal responsibility at this stage but some of the foreign nationals don't get that, particular the Muslims and the ethic travelling community.
This is like bad satire.

Sure why focus on the actual personal responsibility of the owners and management at meat processing plants to ensure safe working conditions when you can just lump it all on low wage workers and ethnic minorities.

The vacuous right-wing mantra of "personal responsibility" is both a dog whistle and a self-consciously fraudulent grift to protect untrammelled corporate power, and lack of corporate responsibility, and incompetence or worse.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/meat-plant-clusters-may-be-down-to-softly-softly-approach-1.4324924?mode=amp

We know now what works to stop the virus: distance, hand hygiene, masks. We know where the risky environments are: crowded indoor spaces, meat plants, shared accommodation.
Minimum wage workers have a "personal responsibility" to ensure they get their own flats rather than live in cramped shared accommodation, no doubt
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on August 10, 2020, 10:57:42 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 10, 2020, 02:10:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 01:16:05 AM
Quote from: highorlow on August 10, 2020, 12:41:13 AM

It's a case of personal responsibility at this stage but some of the foreign nationals don't get that, particular the Muslims and the ethic travelling community.
This is like bad satire.

Sure why focus on the actual personal responsibility of the owners and management at meat processing plants to ensure safe working conditions when you can just lump it all on low wage workers and ethnic minorities.

The vacuous right-wing mantra of "personal responsibility" is both a dog whistle and a self-consciously fraudulent grift to protect untrammelled corporate power, and lack of corporate responsibility, and incompetence or worse.

No, both the owners and the workers have responsibilities. They cannot just put the blame on the other.

Exactly, the owners can only do what they can do. I have no idea whether these meat factories were well set up or not and I hazard a guess no one on here knows  that either. Likewise we dont know the culture of the workers are in terms of telling owners about any symptoms they have. This is not simple stuff and only people who dont have a clue about working in factories think it is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on August 10, 2020, 11:28:03 AM
Quote from: highorlow on August 10, 2020, 12:41:13 AM
Hopefully the people getting it now are only getting ordinary flu like symptoms and not the lung scarring and other stuff that's making the headlines. I've also heard of a good few older people back in March that had it and it was just like a head cold and passed through them. We might be ok here for winter as we had a severe flu season last winter unlike the Italians and Spanish who were caught off guard.

It's a case of personal responsibility at this stage but some of the foreign nationals don't get that, particular the Muslims and the ethic travelling community.

Thank fcuk we know how to defeat the china virus, get everybody to convert to christianity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on August 10, 2020, 11:32:40 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on August 10, 2020, 09:34:34 AM
Anyone know what the logic is behind customers bieng asked to wear masks in shops, while staff are not?

Surely both should be?
Where's this? Any shop I've been in the last few weeks every staff member was wearing a mask or a face shield.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 10, 2020, 11:34:29 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on August 10, 2020, 11:28:03 AM
Quote from: highorlow on August 10, 2020, 12:41:13 AM
Hopefully the people getting it now are only getting ordinary flu like symptoms and not the lung scarring and other stuff that's making the headlines. I've also heard of a good few older people back in March that had it and it was just like a head cold and passed through them. We might be ok here for winter as we had a severe flu season last winter unlike the Italians and Spanish who were caught off guard.

It's a case of personal responsibility at this stage but some of the foreign nationals don't get that, particular the Muslims and the ethic travelling community.

Thank fcuk we know how to defeat the china virus, get everybody to convert to christianity.

It should help, but Muslims should be away of the idea of not killing people also. However, some people basically judge morality in relation to themselves, they think others should be nice to them without any reciprocal obligation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyroneman on August 10, 2020, 11:35:49 AM
Quote from: laoislad on August 10, 2020, 11:32:40 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on August 10, 2020, 09:34:34 AM
Anyone know what the logic is behind customers bieng asked to wear masks in shops, while staff are not?

Surely both should be?
Where's this? Any shop I've been in the last few weeks every staff member was wearing a mask or a face shield.

It's part of the new guidance in the North
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 10, 2020, 11:42:08 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on August 10, 2020, 11:35:49 AM
Quote from: laoislad on August 10, 2020, 11:32:40 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on August 10, 2020, 09:34:34 AM
Anyone know what the logic is behind customers bieng asked to wear masks in shops, while staff are not?

Surely both should be?
Where's this? Any shop I've been in the last few weeks every staff member was wearing a mask or a face shield.

It's part of the new guidance in the North

It's mad, all you have to do is say you are exempt. No problem. No questions asked.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on August 10, 2020, 11:44:07 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 10, 2020, 11:42:08 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on August 10, 2020, 11:35:49 AM
Quote from: laoislad on August 10, 2020, 11:32:40 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on August 10, 2020, 09:34:34 AM
Anyone know what the logic is behind customers bieng asked to wear masks in shops, while staff are not?

Surely both should be?
Where's this? Any shop I've been in the last few weeks every staff member was wearing a mask or a face shield.

It's part of the new guidance in the North

It's mad, all you have to do is say you are exempt. No problem. No questions asked.
Sure why would you do that unless you were a selfish cvnt.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 10, 2020, 11:46:42 AM
There are a lot of "anti maskers" out there - not just in america.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 10, 2020, 12:00:11 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on August 10, 2020, 11:44:07 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 10, 2020, 11:42:08 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on August 10, 2020, 11:35:49 AM
Quote from: laoislad on August 10, 2020, 11:32:40 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on August 10, 2020, 09:34:34 AM
Anyone know what the logic is behind customers bieng asked to wear masks in shops, while staff are not?

Surely both should be?
Where's this? Any shop I've been in the last few weeks every staff member was wearing a mask or a face shield.

It's part of the new guidance in the North

It's mad, all you have to do is say you are exempt. No problem. No questions asked.
Sure why would you do that unless you were a selfish cvnt.

Just pointing out the folly of the actual legislation.

There'll be plenty claiming exemptions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on August 10, 2020, 12:16:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 10:01:59 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 10, 2020, 06:35:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 01:16:05 AM
Quote from: highorlow on August 10, 2020, 12:41:13 AM

It's a case of personal responsibility at this stage but some of the foreign nationals don't get that, particular the Muslims and the ethic travelling community.
This is like bad satire.

Sure why focus on the actual personal responsibility of the owners and management at meat processing plants to ensure safe working conditions when you can just lump it all on low wage workers and ethnic minorities.

The vacuous right-wing mantra of "personal responsibility" is both a dog whistle and a self-consciously fraudulent grift to protect untrammelled corporate power, and lack of corporate responsibility, and incompetence or worse.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/meat-plant-clusters-may-be-down-to-softly-softly-approach-1.4324924?mode=amp

We know now what works to stop the virus: distance, hand hygiene, masks. We know where the risky environments are: crowded indoor spaces, meat plants, shared accommodation.
Minimum wage workers have a "personal responsibility" to ensure they get their own flats rather than live in cramped shared accommodation, no doubt
Minimum wage workers live in cramped shared accommodation because they are on a minimum wage and can't afford to pay the rent and other bills on there own.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on August 10, 2020, 12:21:33 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on August 10, 2020, 12:16:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 10:01:59 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 10, 2020, 06:35:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 01:16:05 AM
Quote from: highorlow on August 10, 2020, 12:41:13 AM

It's a case of personal responsibility at this stage but some of the foreign nationals don't get that, particular the Muslims and the ethic travelling community.
This is like bad satire.

Sure why focus on the actual personal responsibility of the owners and management at meat processing plants to ensure safe working conditions when you can just lump it all on low wage workers and ethnic minorities.

The vacuous right-wing mantra of "personal responsibility" is both a dog whistle and a self-consciously fraudulent grift to protect untrammelled corporate power, and lack of corporate responsibility, and incompetence or worse.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/meat-plant-clusters-may-be-down-to-softly-softly-approach-1.4324924?mode=amp

We know now what works to stop the virus: distance, hand hygiene, masks. We know where the risky environments are: crowded indoor spaces, meat plants, shared accommodation.
Minimum wage workers have a "personal responsibility" to ensure they get their own flats rather than live in cramped shared accommodation, no doubt
Minimum wage workers live in cramped shared accommodation because they are on a minimum wage and can't afford to pay the rent and other bills on there own.

Rents in places like Timahoe, Ballyhaunis or Ballyjamesduff aren't outrageous, especially for house shares. Many people come here to work in meat plants so they can save or send money home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on August 10, 2020, 12:31:34 PM
Quote from: five points on August 10, 2020, 12:21:33 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on August 10, 2020, 12:16:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 10:01:59 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 10, 2020, 06:35:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 01:16:05 AM
Quote from: highorlow on August 10, 2020, 12:41:13 AM

It's a case of personal responsibility at this stage but some of the foreign nationals don't get that, particular the Muslims and the ethic travelling community.
This is like bad satire.

Sure why focus on the actual personal responsibility of the owners and management at meat processing plants to ensure safe working conditions when you can just lump it all on low wage workers and ethnic minorities.

The vacuous right-wing mantra of "personal responsibility" is both a dog whistle and a self-consciously fraudulent grift to protect untrammelled corporate power, and lack of corporate responsibility, and incompetence or worse.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/meat-plant-clusters-may-be-down-to-softly-softly-approach-1.4324924?mode=amp

We know now what works to stop the virus: distance, hand hygiene, masks. We know where the risky environments are: crowded indoor spaces, meat plants, shared accommodation.
Minimum wage workers have a "personal responsibility" to ensure they get their own flats rather than live in cramped shared accommodation, no doubt
Minimum wage workers live in cramped shared accommodation because they are on a minimum wage and can't afford to pay the rent and other bills on there own.

Rents in places like Timahoe, Ballyhaunis or Ballyjamesduff aren't outrageous, especially for house shares. Many people come here to work in meat plants so they can save or send money home.
Yes I agree on a shared house but it wouldn't be viable for someone to move to Ballyhaunis on a minimum wage and rent a flat on there own.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 10, 2020, 12:53:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 10, 2020, 12:00:11 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on August 10, 2020, 11:44:07 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 10, 2020, 11:42:08 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on August 10, 2020, 11:35:49 AM
Quote from: laoislad on August 10, 2020, 11:32:40 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on August 10, 2020, 09:34:34 AM
Anyone know what the logic is behind customers bieng asked to wear masks in shops, while staff are not?

Surely both should be?
Where's this? Any shop I've been in the last few weeks every staff member was wearing a mask or a face shield.

It's part of the new guidance in the North

It's mad, all you have to do is say you are exempt. No problem. No questions asked.
Sure why would you do that unless you were a selfish cvnt.

Just pointing out the folly of the actual legislation.

There'll be plenty claiming exemptions.

Since masks are for the benefit of others, there should be zero exemptions. If you really cannot wear one, and a face-shield is an option, then stay out of shops.
As usual, a serious lack of leadership from government.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on August 10, 2020, 01:45:43 PM
"It's only and oul cold"
"Only affects oul people"
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/i-got-covid-and-days-later-was-in-a-coma-i-dont-know-if-ill-ever-fully-recover-ciaran-34-gives-stark-warning-39436680.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on August 10, 2020, 01:51:48 PM
One of the maddest things about this virus is that no matter your opinion, you'll be able to find an article written from a supposedly reputable source backing you up.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 10, 2020, 02:03:08 PM
Quote from: ONeill on August 10, 2020, 01:51:48 PM
One of the maddest things about this virus is that no matter your opinion, you'll be able to find an article written from a supposedly reputable source backing you up.

I find that too. The masks are another example. I was reading someone's tweet yesterday (and this person is a respected journalist) saying people are stupid thinking masks worked as the science backs up that it doesn't - a real anti mask person. I looked to find that scientific evidence and it looked sketchy enough, but did exist, while in the meantime there are articles galore of how wearing a mask works.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on August 10, 2020, 03:22:26 PM
Quote from: ONeill on August 10, 2020, 01:51:48 PM
One of the maddest things about this virus is that no matter your opinion, you'll be able to find an article written from a supposedly reputable source backing you up.
The bit I posted was about a real person in his 30s who is now suffering like a stroke survivor.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on August 10, 2020, 03:46:10 PM
***gaaboard offence taken alert ****

Sorry, I wasn't replying to you... Was just a thought off the top of me head.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on August 10, 2020, 03:52:01 PM
What you say is true enough if you want to be expressing layman opinions of the pandemic.
I prefer to listen to the State medics and hope they get things mainly right.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 03:55:01 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on August 10, 2020, 12:16:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 10:01:59 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 10, 2020, 06:35:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 01:16:05 AM
Quote from: highorlow on August 10, 2020, 12:41:13 AM

It's a case of personal responsibility at this stage but some of the foreign nationals don't get that, particular the Muslims and the ethic travelling community.
This is like bad satire.

Sure why focus on the actual personal responsibility of the owners and management at meat processing plants to ensure safe working conditions when you can just lump it all on low wage workers and ethnic minorities.

The vacuous right-wing mantra of "personal responsibility" is both a dog whistle and a self-consciously fraudulent grift to protect untrammelled corporate power, and lack of corporate responsibility, and incompetence or worse.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/meat-plant-clusters-may-be-down-to-softly-softly-approach-1.4324924?mode=amp

We know now what works to stop the virus: distance, hand hygiene, masks. We know where the risky environments are: crowded indoor spaces, meat plants, shared accommodation.
Minimum wage workers have a "personal responsibility" to ensure they get their own flats rather than live in cramped shared accommodation, no doubt
Minimum wage workers live in cramped shared accommodation because they are on a minimum wage and can't afford to pay the rent and other bills on there own.
Em, yes, that's sort of my point

Hasn't stopped the vacuous "personal responsibility" mob vilifying them however
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on August 10, 2020, 03:56:55 PM
I was talking to two people involved in looking after patients, over the weekend. Both experienced practitioners with a combined 50-ish years working in nursing homes and intensive care, and fairly high up the ladder in their respective areas.

I was asking them about masks and they had total polar opposite views on their effectiveness in terms of the public wearing them.

That's sorta mad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 10, 2020, 04:03:25 PM
https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.29.2001352#html_fulltext

That is what will happen with essentially uncontrolled reopening of schools.

Fortunately, no hospitalisations out of all that - but its when those carriers transfer to the generation above that (grandparents or elderly parents) that things become problematic.


[and at this point I'm fairly sure the virus has mutated to a lower lethality]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on August 10, 2020, 04:21:34 PM
Quote from: ONeill on August 10, 2020, 03:56:55 PM
I was talking to two people involved in looking after patients, over the weekend. Both experienced practitioners with a combined 50-ish years working in nursing homes and intensive care, and fairly high up the ladder in their respective areas.

I was asking them about masks and they had total polar opposite views on their effectiveness in terms of the public wearing them.

That's sorta mad.


What's sorta mad is that that people have convinced themselves that there are no potential downsides to wearing a mask.

They might well be right. But they can't know for sure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 10, 2020, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 10, 2020, 04:21:34 PM
What's sorta mad is that that people have convinced themselves that there are no potential downsides to wearing a mask.

They might well be right. But they can't know for sure.

Whats sorta mad is that people have convinced themselves that there is no potential for aliens killing them tonight.

They might well be right. But they can't know for sure.

::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on August 10, 2020, 04:48:36 PM
Northern Ireland has recorded its first COVID death in 4 weeks. 76 new cases over the last 3 days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on August 10, 2020, 06:00:40 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 10, 2020, 04:48:36 PM
Northern Ireland has recorded its first COVID death in 4 weeks. 76 new cases over the last 3 days.

Covid linked death
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 06:27:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 10, 2020, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 10, 2020, 04:21:34 PM
What's sorta mad is that that people have convinced themselves that there are no potential downsides to wearing a mask.

They might well be right. But they can't know for sure.

Whats sorta mad is that people have convinced themselves that there is no potential for aliens killing them tonight.

They might well be right. But they can't know for sure.

::)
A nice skewering of the sort of Spiked Online professional contrarian mentality routinely used by the initially quoted poster
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on August 10, 2020, 08:33:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 03:55:01 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on August 10, 2020, 12:16:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 10:01:59 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 10, 2020, 06:35:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 01:16:05 AM
Quote from: highorlow on August 10, 2020, 12:41:13 AM

It's a case of personal responsibility at this stage but some of the foreign nationals don't get that, particular the Muslims and the ethic travelling community.
This is like bad satire.

Sure why focus on the actual personal responsibility of the owners and management at meat processing plants to ensure safe working conditions when you can just lump it all on low wage workers and ethnic minorities.

The vacuous right-wing mantra of "personal responsibility" is both a dog whistle and a self-consciously fraudulent grift to protect untrammelled corporate power, and lack of corporate responsibility, and incompetence or worse.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/meat-plant-clusters-may-be-down-to-softly-softly-approach-1.4324924?mode=amp

We know now what works to stop the virus: distance, hand hygiene, masks. We know where the risky environments are: crowded indoor spaces, meat plants, shared accommodation.
Minimum wage workers have a "personal responsibility" to ensure they get their own flats rather than live in cramped shared accommodation, no doubt
Minimum wage workers live in cramped shared accommodation because they are on a minimum wage and can't afford to pay the rent and other bills on there own.
Em, yes, that's sort of my point

Hasn't stopped the vacuous "personal responsibility" mob vilifying them however
Haha I was wondering (hoping) you where being sarcastic   :)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on August 10, 2020, 08:51:38 PM
Sid in my defence at least I'm aware that I have contrarian tendencies.

You seem blissfully unaware that you suffer the same. Probably a worse case of it truth be told, as you're also convinced that anyone you go out of the way to disagree with is a right wing fascist.

It's an unhappy place you inhabit, that's for sure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on August 10, 2020, 09:06:32 PM
Being right about everything all the time must be hard work ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on August 10, 2020, 09:09:05 PM
Anyhow back to face masks.

The Irish government this week closed three counties. That the people of north Kildare have nothing in common in terms of community, heritage, tradition, economy, inter relationships, with the people of South Kildare, doesn't matter. That restaurants a stone's throw apart, one can open, one cannot -   because of a fictional county line, doesn't seem to register.

It's a case of having to be seen to do something. Whether it's the right thing to do, or the logical thing to do, or if it's even possible to do, really doesn't matter. Sturgeon did it in Scotland so we have to do something too. That's all it's about.

So forgive me for not trusting same governments for pushing through facemask legislation. Do they really help? They might well. Does the government actually know what they're doing by making them compulsory? No, they don't.

The government has led the consensus change toward masks. If they hadn't, we wouldn't wear them.

Good luck to all who implicitly trust their overlords.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 10, 2020, 09:43:33 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 10, 2020, 09:09:05 PMDo they really help? They might well.

The reason why recommendations on wearing masks was initially against were twofold.

1. The supply of N95 masks for medical staff were very limited and it was feared people would buy them further constricting supplies.
2. Western governments and their advisors have an institutional arrogance toward lessons learned in other continents that is not North America.

It has been shown over a considerable time period that wearing masks helps toward stopping anyone infected from spreading their germs/virus to others. In Asia it is widely accepted, indeed, even a social norm.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on August 10, 2020, 10:01:05 PM
Radio in general I don't disagree with the face mask concept.

I do have this lagging thought that if I was early-stage, pre-symptom Covid, then recycling it to myself while I walk around town for a couple of hours, probably isn't going to do me much good. Or that sweaty old men slipping a dirty bandana onto their face before shouting at a shopkeeper isn't much better than him ranting unmuffled from a greater distance. And that the very nature of the world is that cheap face masks of poor quality and of negligible benefit, will be the choice of the majority.

But I accept these are trivial objections.

So face masks are okay in my books. But it's notable that the movement has picked up zealots in recent weeks. Like pretty much everything else, the more impassioned the fanboys become, the more sceptical I become.

Nothing is black and white in this world.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 11:30:20 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 10, 2020, 08:51:38 PM
Sid in my defence at least I'm aware that I have contrarian tendencies.

You seem blissfully unaware that you suffer the same. Probably a worse case of it truth be told, as you're also convinced that anyone you go out of the way to disagree with is a right wing fascist.

It's an unhappy place you inhabit, that's for sure.
You have all the wrong sort of contrarian tendencies

Like all such people, the first thing you reach for is a straw man to confirm your own confirmation bias, which ironically is the thing you always complain about in others when you are in fact one of the worst offenders around

I am not personally unhappy but the world is a very unhappy place indeed at the moment, due in large part to fascism and the associated brain rot it is spreading as a concerted strategy, so yes, I am unhappy about that, I think any reasonable person who makes a genuine effort to be informed about the world around them would be

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on August 11, 2020, 08:03:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 11:30:20 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 10, 2020, 08:51:38 PM
Sid in my defence at least I'm aware that I have contrarian tendencies.

You seem blissfully unaware that you suffer the same. Probably a worse case of it truth be told, as you're also convinced that anyone you go out of the way to disagree with is a right wing fascist.

It's an unhappy place you inhabit, that's for sure.
You have all the wrong sort of contrarian tendencies

Like all such people, the first thing you reach for is a straw man to confirm your own confirmation bias, which ironically is the thing you always complain about in others when you are in fact one of the worst offenders around

I am not personally unhappy but the world is a very unhappy place indeed at the moment, due in large part to fascism and the associated brain rot it is spreading as a concerted strategy, so yes, I am unhappy about that, I think any reasonable person who makes a genuine effort to be informed about the world around them would be

You're summing it up well Sid. You genuinely believe that you're right about everything. I tend to believe there is no right answer to any subject of complexity, which leads me to probe thought trains (especially those of the most blinkered) at their weakest points. Like all zealots and fundamentalists you then revert to attacking the poster. Start with straw man, then decry him as a fascist.

It is genuinely impossible to converse with a fundamentalist.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 11, 2020, 09:14:57 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 11, 2020, 08:03:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 10, 2020, 11:30:20 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 10, 2020, 08:51:38 PM
Sid in my defence at least I'm aware that I have contrarian tendencies.

You seem blissfully unaware that you suffer the same. Probably a worse case of it truth be told, as you're also convinced that anyone you go out of the way to disagree with is a right wing fascist.

It's an unhappy place you inhabit, that's for sure.
You have all the wrong sort of contrarian tendencies

Like all such people, the first thing you reach for is a straw man to confirm your own confirmation bias, which ironically is the thing you always complain about in others when you are in fact one of the worst offenders around

I am not personally unhappy but the world is a very unhappy place indeed at the moment, due in large part to fascism and the associated brain rot it is spreading as a concerted strategy, so yes, I am unhappy about that, I think any reasonable person who makes a genuine effort to be informed about the world around them would be

You're summing it up well Sid. You genuinely believe that you're right about everything. I tend to believe there is no right answer to any subject of complexity, which leads me to probe thought trains (especially those of the most blinkered) at their weakest points. Like all zealots and fundamentalists you then revert to attacking the poster. Start with straw man, then decry him as a fascist.

It is genuinely impossible to converse with a fundamentalist.

The projection is hilarious
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 11, 2020, 11:17:48 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 10, 2020, 09:43:33 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 10, 2020, 09:09:05 PMDo they really help? They might well.

The reason why recommendations on wearing masks was initially against were twofold.

1. The supply of N95 masks for medical staff were very limited and it was feared people would buy them further constricting supplies.
2. Western governments and their advisors have an institutional arrogance toward lessons learned in other continents that is not North America.

It has been shown over a considerable time period that wearing masks helps toward stopping anyone infected from spreading their germs/virus to others. In Asia it is widely accepted, indeed, even a social norm.

The masks aren't just Covid related in Asia.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/04/18/air-pollution-contributed-to-more-than-6-million-deaths-in-2016-infographic/#5394e16413b4

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2116342/pollution-claims-18-million-lives-china-latest-research-says

https://www.airclim.org/acidnews/china-670000-smog-related-deaths-year

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 11, 2020, 11:33:27 AM
NZ record first cases in 102 days. It'll be interesting to see where they came from.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 11, 2020, 12:28:10 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0811/1158503-coronavirus-vaccine/

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on August 11, 2020, 02:50:33 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 11, 2020, 12:28:10 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0811/1158503-coronavirus-vaccine/

Its turning into a James Bond Movie.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 11, 2020, 03:03:31 PM
I look forward to anti-vaccine nut jobs everywhere performing a spectacular 180 and suddenly becoming cheerleaders for this untested Russian "vaccine" for a disease they simultaneously claim is a "scamdemic". 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on August 11, 2020, 03:23:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on August 11, 2020, 02:50:33 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 11, 2020, 12:28:10 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0811/1158503-coronavirus-vaccine/

Its turning into a James Bond Movie.

Seems like in 6 months Russia will be the worlds clinical trial. Its like a cold war event alright. How long before someone reckons Russia has an antidote because they created it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Denn Forever on August 11, 2020, 04:27:47 PM
Quote from: Itchy on August 11, 2020, 03:23:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on August 11, 2020, 02:50:33 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 11, 2020, 12:28:10 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0811/1158503-coronavirus-vaccine/

Its turning into a James Bond Movie.

Seems like in 6 months Russia will be the worlds clinical trial. Its like a cold war event alright. How long before someone reckons Russia has an antidote because they created it?
[/quote}]

like the way you've seeded the mill.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on August 11, 2020, 06:14:57 PM
Cases numbers have dropped in the ROI the last 3 days. 68 Sunday, 57 yesterday and 35 today hopefully the trend will continue downwards. Community transmission remains in single figures the last few days also.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 12, 2020, 10:27:08 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 11, 2020, 11:17:48 AM
The masks aren't just Covid related in Asia.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/04/18/air-pollution-contributed-to-more-than-6-million-deaths-in-2016-infographic/#5394e16413b4

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2116342/pollution-claims-18-million-lives-china-latest-research-says

https://www.airclim.org/acidnews/china-670000-smog-related-deaths-year

I know - and they aren't just smog related either.

If you are sick in Asia (pre covid) - social expectation is you would wear a mask to protect everyone else.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 12, 2020, 10:29:04 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on August 11, 2020, 02:50:33 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 11, 2020, 12:28:10 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0811/1158503-coronavirus-vaccine/

Its turning into a James Bond Movie.
From Russia with Love?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 12, 2020, 10:36:23 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 11, 2020, 06:14:57 PM
Cases numbers have dropped in the ROI the last 3 days. 68 Sunday, 57 yesterday and 35 today hopefully the trend will continue downwards. Community transmission remains in single figures the last few days also.

Lets hope that this recent spike was a warning which will tighten things up. Fortunately, this spike will probably have been dealt with before the schools get going, as these will bring their own problems.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on August 12, 2020, 04:30:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 12, 2020, 10:36:23 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 11, 2020, 06:14:57 PM
Cases numbers have dropped in the ROI the last 3 days. 68 Sunday, 57 yesterday and 35 today hopefully the trend will continue downwards. Community transmission remains in single figures the last few days also.

Lets hope that this recent spike was a warning which will tighten things up. Fortunately, this spike will probably have been dealt with before the schools get going, as these will bring their own problems.

Going to be a spike in cases today. Tests have increased with almost 6,000 conducted in the last 24 hrs  and its found additional 80 positive tests. Add in yesterday's 15 positive tests we could be looking at close to 100 cases this evening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 12, 2020, 04:36:14 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 12, 2020, 04:30:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 12, 2020, 10:36:23 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 11, 2020, 06:14:57 PM
Cases numbers have dropped in the ROI the last 3 days. 68 Sunday, 57 yesterday and 35 today hopefully the trend will continue downwards. Community transmission remains in single figures the last few days also.

Lets hope that this recent spike was a warning which will tighten things up. Fortunately, this spike will probably have been dealt with before the schools get going, as these will bring their own problems.

Going to be a spike in cases today. Tests have increased with almost 6,000 conducted in the last 24 hrs  and its found additional 80 positive tests. Add in yesterday's 15 positive tests we could be looking at close to 100 cases this evening.

But that's good, the more people test the better, whether it's positive results or negative.. Its better to have less people walking around giving or passing on the virus without knowing they have had it..

With the younger people getting it and testing for it we will get these big spikes, providing its not resulting in people going to hospital or higher deaths (which isnt the case)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on August 12, 2020, 05:20:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 12, 2020, 04:36:14 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 12, 2020, 04:30:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 12, 2020, 10:36:23 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 11, 2020, 06:14:57 PM
Cases numbers have dropped in the ROI the last 3 days. 68 Sunday, 57 yesterday and 35 today hopefully the trend will continue downwards. Community transmission remains in single figures the last few days also.

Lets hope that this recent spike was a warning which will tighten things up. Fortunately, this spike will probably have been dealt with before the schools get going, as these will bring their own problems.

Going to be a spike in cases today. Tests have increased with almost 6,000 conducted in the last 24 hrs  and its found additional 80 positive tests. Add in yesterday's 15 positive tests we could be looking at close to 100 cases this evening.

But that's good, the more people test the better, whether it's positive results or negative.. Its better to have less people walking around giving or passing on the virus without knowing they have had it..

With the younger people getting it and testing for it we will get these big spikes, providing its not resulting in people going to hospital or higher deaths (which isnt the case)
Agree with all of that. Putting the test, track and tracing system to good use and as you say hopefully the deaths and people requiring hospital treatment remains low.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on August 12, 2020, 05:50:46 PM
Can anyone give me a good clear explanation of the difference between mandatory and compulsory?

I've read about 20 there and the head is pickled.

It's an age thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on August 12, 2020, 06:59:44 PM
Lower than I expected with only 40 cases confirmed today. Acting CMO  Dr Glynn said this evening that most of the recent reported deaths are from months ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on August 13, 2020, 07:58:05 AM
Public health measures I'm all for but common sense must apply.


Singling out Kildare, Laois and Offaly is a mistake imo. These counties don't have an underground rail system and are not that densely populated.

It's hard now to believe any experts on this as there was a very large cohort of eminent professors and doctors who called for full elimination in Ireland and actually wanted to shut down boarders here, they pointed to New Zealand as an example, the media should get back to these people and get their updated opinion on full elimination.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 13, 2020, 08:35:40 AM
I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about NZ here. It's very interesting and I don't know if there have been developments to work out where these people got it from as they weren't traveling. I think working that out will definitely work out some unknowns with the whole thing. e.g. are there way more of us have it / have had it than we even know? How long can someone be asymptomatic for and still spread it? If the cases were 102 days apart then there are a number of possibilities I guess - it's been rattling round people asymptomatically for that period of time or someone can have it for a lot longer than the 14 days and still spread it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on August 13, 2020, 09:00:12 AM
In NZ they think it was imported on frozen food products. It's a mystery, it's probable that they never got rid of it in NZ in the first place, just people had it with little or no symptoms. 6% of English appear to have had this already. If your siding with Micheal Levitt, which I'm tending to do, then the English will have herd immunity soon. The Swedes probably will have before the English and will avoid a second wave as they went for a smart lockdown.

I'd like to see stats where this is having long lasting implications on people, especially those with apparent no underlying symptoms. Is it 1 in a million or 1 in a hundred? The ones we here about make it to sky news and the papers but I'd like to know what the odds are / the overall risk.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 13, 2020, 09:19:13 AM
Yeah the reality is we can't trust the crap we hear on the news these days :( I know of one person who has had follow up heart issues and a few struggling for a long time to recover energy / lung capacity wise but then I know a few where nothing came of it. Who knows these days.

I hadn't heard the frozen food thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on August 13, 2020, 09:33:32 AM
If there are that many who are asymptomatic then surely the estimate of only 5% of the population having covid in European countries is abit low?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 13, 2020, 10:08:28 AM
Yeah if. I guess we don't know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 13, 2020, 10:11:06 AM
Quote from: highorlow on August 13, 2020, 09:00:12 AM
In NZ they think it was imported on frozen food products. It's a mystery, it's probable that they never got rid of it in NZ in the first place, just people had it with little or no symptoms. 6% of English appear to have had this already. If your siding with Micheal Levitt, which I'm tending to do, then the English will have herd immunity soon. The Swedes probably will have before the English and will avoid a second wave as they went for a smart lockdown.

I'd like to see stats where this is having long lasting implications on people, especially those with apparent no underlying symptoms. Is it 1 in a million or 1 in a hundred? The ones we here about make it to sky news and the papers but I'd like to know what the odds are / the overall risk.

If 6% of English have had it, even assuming that gives you immunity, then you need 60% for herd immunity. It took 6 months to get to 6% and 40,000 died, you have a slower rate now and you would get herd immunity in 2025. A vaccine is the the way to immunity.

Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on August 13, 2020, 09:33:32 AM
If there are that many who are asymptomatic then surely the estimate of only 5% of the population having covid in European countries is abit low?

In Spain 1% of people have been tested positive, add in a whack of asymptomatic cases and you still end up not much over 5%. Other countries have been less affected than Spain.

We started this with 100% of people who never had it, we now have 95% have never had it, it isn't that different.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on August 13, 2020, 10:24:58 AM
Quote from: ONeill on August 12, 2020, 05:50:46 PM
Can anyone give me a good clear explanation of the difference between mandatory and compulsory?

I've read about 20 there and the head is pickled.

It's an age thing.

I'd say mandatory is a requirement (from law or elsewhere) but compulsory is something that you must have.

For example, if you are going fishing a licence or permit may be mandatory but a rod would be compulsory. I think
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Crete Boom on August 13, 2020, 10:28:19 AM
Quote from: highorlow on August 13, 2020, 09:00:12 AM
In NZ they think it was imported on frozen food products. It's a mystery, it's probable that they never got rid of it in NZ in the first place, just people had it with little or no symptoms. 6% of English appear to have had this already. If your siding with Micheal Levitt, which I'm tending to do, then the English will have herd immunity soon. The Swedes probably will have before the English and will avoid a second wave as they went for a smart lockdown.

I'd like to see stats where this is having long lasting implications on people, especially those with apparent no underlying symptoms. Is it 1 in a million or 1 in a hundred? The ones we here about make it to sky news and the papers but I'd like to know what the odds are / the overall risk.

Sure won't England get to herd immunity quicker since they have a traveller population as well as muslims where as Sweden only has a muslim population? ::) ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on August 13, 2020, 10:37:15 AM
Quote from: Crete Boom on August 13, 2020, 10:28:19 AM
Quote from: highorlow on August 13, 2020, 09:00:12 AM
In NZ they think it was imported on frozen food products. It's a mystery, it's probable that they never got rid of it in NZ in the first place, just people had it with little or no symptoms. 6% of English appear to have had this already. If your siding with Micheal Levitt, which I'm tending to do, then the English will have herd immunity soon. The Swedes probably will have before the English and will avoid a second wave as they went for a smart lockdown.

I'd like to see stats where this is having long lasting implications on people, especially those with apparent no underlying symptoms. Is it 1 in a million or 1 in a hundred? The ones we here about make it to sky news and the papers but I'd like to know what the odds are / the overall risk.

Sure won't England get to herd immunity quicker since they have a traveller population as well as muslims where as Sweden only has a muslim population? ::) ::)

I still can't see where anyone involved in this thing has said herd immunity is a thing as they still weren't sure that if you got it, asymptomatic or not that you couldn't get it again.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on August 13, 2020, 10:49:38 AM
Quote from: highorlow on August 13, 2020, 09:00:12 AM
In NZ they think it was imported on frozen food products. It's a mystery, it's probable that they never got rid of it in NZ in the first place, just people had it with little or no symptoms. 6% of English appear to have had this already. If your siding with Micheal Levitt, which I'm tending to do, then the English will have herd immunity soon. The Swedes probably will have before the English and will avoid a second wave as they went for a smart lockdown.

I'd like to see stats where this is having long lasting implications on people, especially those with apparent no underlying symptoms. Is it 1 in a million or 1 in a hundred? The ones we here about make it to sky news and the papers but I'd like to know what the odds are / the overall risk.

Around 1 in 10 get the long haul Covid and it's not known if they'll ever recover. You think England is close to herd immunity with only 6% having had it at this stage? You're having a laugh. There are also now quite a few reports around the world of people becoming reinfected 3 months after receiving the all clear. That suggests that antibodies against this virus have a short shelf life which makes herd immunity, through getting enough people infected, a pipe dream. This is going to be with us for a long time. A vaccine will definitely be a big help but most experts seem to be in agreement that it will most likely only be partially effective.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 13, 2020, 01:46:28 PM
Quote from: highorlow on August 13, 2020, 07:58:05 AM
It's hard now to believe any experts on this as there was a very large cohort of eminent professors and doctors who called for full elimination in Ireland and actually wanted to shut down boarders here, they pointed to New Zealand as an example, the media should get back to these people and get their updated opinion on full elimination.

They are correct to call for shutting down the borders etc.

Do you think the virus swam here itself in the first place? Or did it rent a yacht and sail it across the Irish sea?


Yes, NZ have had a single flare up - how hard do you think it is for NZ authorities to try and contain one single flare up across the entire country compared to Ireland where there are several with numerous cases of unknown transmission?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 01:54:26 PM
Quote from: highorlow on August 13, 2020, 09:00:12 AM
In NZ they think it was imported on frozen food products. It's a mystery, it's probable that they never got rid of it in NZ in the first place, just people had it with little or no symptoms. 6% of English appear to have had this already. If your siding with Micheal Levitt, which I'm tending to do, then the English will have herd immunity soon. The Swedes probably will have before the English and will avoid a second wave as they went for a smart lockdown.
I'm not sure why on earth anybody would "side" with an obvious self-promoter who has been confidently telling everybody that Covid would "burn out" within two weeks. Well over three months ago.

Britain went with their so called "herd immunity" "strategy" to protect their economy. They have taken the worst economic hit of any of the G7 members.

And there's nothing to suggest they or Sweden are remotely close to herd immunity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 02:11:27 PM
90% of workers in the meat processing sector in Ireland get no sick pay.

Can't see how that would present a problem as regards Covid, can't see it at all, noooo siree.

Capitalism, f**k yeah.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on August 13, 2020, 02:49:29 PM
QuoteThey are correct to call for shutting down the borders etc.

Do you think the virus swam here itself in the first place? Or did it rent a yacht and sail it across the Irish sea?


Yes, NZ have had a single flare up - how hard do you think it is for NZ authorities to try and contain one single flare up across the entire country compared to Ireland where there are several with numerous cases of unknown transmission?

Did it swim back into NZ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 13, 2020, 03:10:51 PM
Quote from: lenny on August 13, 2020, 10:49:38 AM
Around 1 in 10 get the long haul Covid and it's not known if they'll ever recover. You think England is close to herd immunity with only 6% having had it at this stage? You're having a laugh. There are also now quite a few reports around the world of people becoming reinfected 3 months after receiving the all clear. That suggests that antibodies against this virus have a short shelf life which makes herd immunity, through getting enough people infected, a pipe dream. This is going to be with us for a long time. A vaccine will definitely be a big help but most experts seem to be in agreement that it will most likely only be partially effective.

I don't believe there has been a proven reinfection report.
However, the jury is out on the vaccine. There is every chance that the vaccine provides longer immunity than a low symptom infection, if only because the vaccine sets out to activate the immune system while the full virus hides from the immune system. Even if you have to get a Covid vaccine in your flu jab each year, I'll still take that.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 13, 2020, 03:35:13 PM
Quote from: highorlow on August 13, 2020, 02:49:29 PM
Did it swim back into NZ?

No, it probably came in on an aircraft then someone didn't quarantine like they were supposed to. Or they were asymptomatic and infectious beyond the quarantine period.


Did you think NZ have still banned air travel?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on August 13, 2020, 06:07:16 PM
92 cases today, a good number of yesterdays positive tests added in today by the looks of it.

Cases last two days - 132
Positive tests last two days - 143

Close to 13,000 tests was done in the last 48hrs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on August 13, 2020, 06:12:47 PM
Of the reported positive tests in the south now only 2% need hospital treatment where as 6 weeks ago 8% of all needed hospital treatment. 75% all under 45 for today's numbers that tested positive
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 03:49:14 PM
32 years old

But I thought Covid wasn't dangerous to young people - well, at least that's what some posters here have been saying

http://www.ballymenaguardian.co.uk/news/2020/08/14/gallery/all-at-nobel-cafe-utterly-heartbroken-by-death-of-dear-friend-and-colleague-10886/

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfYlycIWAAAiQX3?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on August 14, 2020, 03:59:54 PM
"Not officially confirmed as Covid19 related at this stage"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 04:06:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 03:49:14 PM
32 years old

But I thought Covid wasn't dangerous to young people - well, at least that's what some posters here have been saying

http://www.ballymenaguardian.co.uk/news/2020/08/14/gallery/all-at-nobel-cafe-utterly-heartbroken-by-death-of-dear-friend-and-colleague-10886/



It might help you grasp things better if you think of it like this:

Being 32 years old would never be construed as a dangerous age. But 32 year olds do die.

——

Unless you've some evidence that being 32 is a more lethal age now than it has been in recent years, you should probably try a different line of argument.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 04:13:03 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 04:06:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 03:49:14 PM
32 years old

But I thought Covid wasn't dangerous to young people - well, at least that's what some posters here have been saying

http://www.ballymenaguardian.co.uk/news/2020/08/14/gallery/all-at-nobel-cafe-utterly-heartbroken-by-death-of-dear-friend-and-colleague-10886/



It might help you grasp things better if you think of it like this:

Being 32 years old would never be construed as a dangerous age. But 32 year olds do die.

——

Unless you've some evidence that being 32 is a more lethal age now than it has been in recent years, you should probably try a different line of argument.

Woah, the professional contrarian strikes again in an effort to prove that Covid is nothing to worry about.

Absolutely weird the emotional investment some people have in trying to prove that wrong is right.

As a demonstration of Dunning-Kruger, you're a beaut.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on August 14, 2020, 04:15:45 PM
She had a heart condition from what i hear, just to add to the impending debate
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 14, 2020, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on August 14, 2020, 04:15:45 PM
She had a heart condition from what i hear, just to add to the impending debate

Can anybody enlighten me if congenital heart defects are in danger of this disease.

I posted on BallHopper's medical update thread that I had tetrology of Fallot and I'm unsure of the risks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 04:33:34 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 04:13:03 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 04:06:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 03:49:14 PM
32 years old

But I thought Covid wasn't dangerous to young people - well, at least that's what some posters here have been saying

http://www.ballymenaguardian.co.uk/news/2020/08/14/gallery/all-at-nobel-cafe-utterly-heartbroken-by-death-of-dear-friend-and-colleague-10886/



It might help you grasp things better if you think of it like this:

Being 32 years old would never be construed as a dangerous age. But 32 year olds do die.

——

Unless you've some evidence that being 32 is a more lethal age now than it has been in recent years, you should probably try a different line of argument.

Woah, the professional contrarian strikes again in an effort to prove that Covid is nothing to worry about.

Absolutely weird the emotional investment some people have in trying to prove that wrong is right.

As a demonstration of Dunning-Kruger, you're a beaut.

Ah the Dunning Krueger response. The "here's one I made earlier" for Internet debaters.


I'm not trying to prove anything. You are. You are trying to prove that Covid is a serious issue for young people. Your evidence was a solitary, poorly written, poorly researched piece of gutter journalism regarding a single person.

I am fully entitled to deflect nonsense like this into the "would your ever wise your f**king head up" pile.

Now stop calling me names. Humour me. Tell me why Covid is dangerous for young people, while bearing in mind that young people die every hour of the day from all sorts of causes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 04:46:07 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 04:33:34 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 04:13:03 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 04:06:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 03:49:14 PM
32 years old

But I thought Covid wasn't dangerous to young people - well, at least that's what some posters here have been saying

http://www.ballymenaguardian.co.uk/news/2020/08/14/gallery/all-at-nobel-cafe-utterly-heartbroken-by-death-of-dear-friend-and-colleague-10886/



It might help you grasp things better if you think of it like this:

Being 32 years old would never be construed as a dangerous age. But 32 year olds do die.

——

Unless you've some evidence that being 32 is a more lethal age now than it has been in recent years, you should probably try a different line of argument.

Woah, the professional contrarian strikes again in an effort to prove that Covid is nothing to worry about.

Absolutely weird the emotional investment some people have in trying to prove that wrong is right.

As a demonstration of Dunning-Kruger, you're a beaut.

Ah the Dunning Krueger response. The "here's one I made earlier" for Internet debaters.


I'm not trying to prove anything. You are. You are trying to prove that Covid is a serious issue for young people. Your evidence was a solitary, poorly written, poorly researched piece of gutter journalism regarding a single person.

I am fully entitled to deflect nonsense like this into the "would your ever wise your f**king head up" pile.

Now stop calling me names. Humour me. Tell me why Covid is dangerous for young people, while bearing in mind that young people die every hour of the day from all sorts of causes.
I think it's fairly obvious you're trying to prove you're an idiot, and you're doing a damn fine job, as you have been for long, long time on this forum with your empty trolling.

My word, a workplace and a local newspaper reporting the death of a young person from Covid is now called "gutter journalism" by you.

Some people hate facts, though, don't they, especially when they're trying to push a Brendan O'Neill Spiked Online view of the world and reality intrudes on that little trolling fantasy.




Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 14, 2020, 05:51:14 PM
74 in the six counties, that's far worse than England or France, about which there is much talk, and the R number in NI is 1.6.
Meanwhile, the Irish Open golf is moved to the six counties because anyone can come in without isolation  >:(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 06:00:50 PM
You a
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 04:46:07 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 04:33:34 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 04:13:03 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 04:06:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 03:49:14 PM
32 years old

But I thought Covid wasn't dangerous to young people - well, at least that's what some posters here have been saying

http://www.ballymenaguardian.co.uk/news/2020/08/14/gallery/all-at-nobel-cafe-utterly-heartbroken-by-death-of-dear-friend-and-colleague-10886/



It might help you grasp things better if you think of it like this:

Being 32 years old would never be construed as a dangerous age. But 32 year olds do die.

——

Unless you've some evidence that being 32 is a more lethal age now than it has been in recent years, you should probably try a different line of argument.

Woah, the professional contrarian strikes again in an effort to prove that Covid is nothing to worry about.

Absolutely weird the emotional investment some people have in trying to prove that wrong is right.

As a demonstration of Dunning-Kruger, you're a beaut.

Ah the Dunning Krueger response. The "here's one I made earlier" for Internet debaters.


I'm not trying to prove anything. You are. You are trying to prove that Covid is a serious issue for young people. Your evidence was a solitary, poorly written, poorly researched piece of gutter journalism regarding a single person.

I am fully entitled to deflect nonsense like this into the "would your ever wise your f**king head up" pile.

Now stop calling me names. Humour me. Tell me why Covid is dangerous for young people, while bearing in mind that young people die every hour of the day from all sorts of causes.
I think it's fairly obvious you're trying to prove you're an idiot, and you're doing a damn fine job, as you have been for long, long time on this forum with your empty trolling.

My word, a workplace and a local newspaper reporting the death of a young person from Covid is now called "gutter journalism" by you.

Some people hate facts, though, don't they, especially when they're trying to push a Brendan O'Neill Spiked Online view of the world and reality intrudes on that little trolling fantasy.






I take it you are aware that you tried to position a newspaper article with no research or proof as a fact?

Hypocrite too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on August 14, 2020, 06:29:14 PM
A mini outbreak in a mushroom factory today in Tipperary. They announce they will shut and do a deep clean of the plant. If they shut for 3 days is there any need to do a deep clean? The virus can survive on various surfaces for up to three days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 14, 2020, 07:07:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 14, 2020, 05:51:14 PM
74 in the six counties, that's far worse than England or France, about which there is much talk, and the R number in NI is 1.6.
Meanwhile, the Irish Open golf is moved to the six counties because anyone can come in without isolation  >:(

What's the testing figure in the last 24 hours in the 6 counties? ROI had 67 cases from 11,337 tests.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 14, 2020, 07:12:35 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on August 14, 2020, 06:29:14 PM
A mini outbreak in a mushroom factory today in Tipperary. They announce they will shut and do a deep clean of the plant. If they shut for 3 days is there any need to do a deep clean? The virus can survive on various surfaces for up to three days.

They should be fine on Monday unless they are cooling the place which might allow the virus last longer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 15, 2020, 11:06:00 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 06:00:50 PM
You a
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 04:46:07 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 04:33:34 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 04:13:03 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 04:06:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 03:49:14 PM
32 years old

But I thought Covid wasn't dangerous to young people - well, at least that's what some posters here have been saying

http://www.ballymenaguardian.co.uk/news/2020/08/14/gallery/all-at-nobel-cafe-utterly-heartbroken-by-death-of-dear-friend-and-colleague-10886/



It might help you grasp things better if you think of it like this:

Being 32 years old would never be construed as a dangerous age. But 32 year olds do die.

——

Unless you've some evidence that being 32 is a more lethal age now than it has been in recent years, you should probably try a different line of argument.

Woah, the professional contrarian strikes again in an effort to prove that Covid is nothing to worry about.

Absolutely weird the emotional investment some people have in trying to prove that wrong is right.

As a demonstration of Dunning-Kruger, you're a beaut.

Ah the Dunning Krueger response. The "here's one I made earlier" for Internet debaters.


I'm not trying to prove anything. You are. You are trying to prove that Covid is a serious issue for young people. Your evidence was a solitary, poorly written, poorly researched piece of gutter journalism regarding a single person.

I am fully entitled to deflect nonsense like this into the "would your ever wise your f**king head up" pile.

Now stop calling me names. Humour me. Tell me why Covid is dangerous for young people, while bearing in mind that young people die every hour of the day from all sorts of causes.
I think it's fairly obvious you're trying to prove you're an idiot, and you're doing a damn fine job, as you have been for long, long time on this forum with your empty trolling.

My word, a workplace and a local newspaper reporting the death of a young person from Covid is now called "gutter journalism" by you.

Some people hate facts, though, don't they, especially when they're trying to push a Brendan O'Neill Spiked Online view of the world and reality intrudes on that little trolling fantasy.






I take it you are aware that you tried to position a newspaper article with no research or proof as a fact?

Hypocrite too.
This guy wobbler apparently knows more than the dead woman's parents

Did somebody say "know it all"?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 15, 2020, 01:00:47 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on August 14, 2020, 06:29:14 PM
A mini outbreak in a mushroom factory today in Tipperary. They announce they will shut and do a deep clean of the plant. If they shut for 3 days is there any need to do a deep clean? The virus can survive on various surfaces for up to three days.

Talk of Tipp going into lockdown now too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on August 15, 2020, 01:40:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 15, 2020, 11:06:00 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 06:00:50 PM
You a
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 04:46:07 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 04:33:34 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 04:13:03 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 04:06:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 03:49:14 PM
32 years old

But I thought Covid wasn't dangerous to young people - well, at least that's what some posters here have been saying

http://www.ballymenaguardian.co.uk/news/2020/08/14/gallery/all-at-nobel-cafe-utterly-heartbroken-by-death-of-dear-friend-and-colleague-10886/



It might help you grasp things better if you think of it like this:

Being 32 years old would never be construed as a dangerous age. But 32 year olds do die.

——

Unless you've some evidence that being 32 is a more lethal age now than it has been in recent years, you should probably try a different line of argument.

Woah, the professional contrarian strikes again in an effort to prove that Covid is nothing to worry about.

Absolutely weird the emotional investment some people have in trying to prove that wrong is right.

As a demonstration of Dunning-Kruger, you're a beaut.

Ah the Dunning Krueger response. The "here's one I made earlier" for Internet debaters.


I'm not trying to prove anything. You are. You are trying to prove that Covid is a serious issue for young people. Your evidence was a solitary, poorly written, poorly researched piece of gutter journalism regarding a single person.

I am fully entitled to deflect nonsense like this into the "would your ever wise your f**king head up" pile.

Now stop calling me names. Humour me. Tell me why Covid is dangerous for young people, while bearing in mind that young people die every hour of the day from all sorts of causes.
I think it's fairly obvious you're trying to prove you're an idiot, and you're doing a damn fine job, as you have been for long, long time on this forum with your empty trolling.

My word, a workplace and a local newspaper reporting the death of a young person from Covid is now called "gutter journalism" by you.

Some people hate facts, though, don't they, especially when they're trying to push a Brendan O'Neill Spiked Online view of the world and reality intrudes on that little trolling fantasy.






I take it you are aware that you tried to position a newspaper article with no research or proof as a fact?

Hypocrite too.
This guy wobbler apparently knows more than the dead woman's parents

Did somebody say "know it all"?

Wobbler is merely analysing the info in the article posted. It's vitally important that the accuracy , veracity and context of any death potentially related to Covid is held up to scrutiny. Wobbler is correct in saying that younger people can die unexpectedly for any number of reasons. What we do know is that deaths due to Covid in young healthy people appears to be rare , even on a global scale. This has been a challenging time , and we are learning more about this virus and the effects of lockdown each day. If premature and possibly inaccurate or over exaggerated assumptions are Made about deaths at this time, it can create unnecessary alarm, and potentially bring back further restrictions which have massive implications for health. If Covid related news or stories are not subject to scrutiny , then it's a free-for-all of "bad science". Calm reflection and decisions based on appropriate scientific evidence is essential. High expressed emotion and "Covid blaming" is likely to be counterproductive .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 15, 2020, 03:18:57 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on August 15, 2020, 01:40:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 15, 2020, 11:06:00 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 06:00:50 PM
You a
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 04:46:07 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 04:33:34 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 04:13:03 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 04:06:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 03:49:14 PM
32 years old

But I thought Covid wasn't dangerous to young people - well, at least that's what some posters here have been saying

http://www.ballymenaguardian.co.uk/news/2020/08/14/gallery/all-at-nobel-cafe-utterly-heartbroken-by-death-of-dear-friend-and-colleague-10886/



It might help you grasp things better if you think of it like this:

Being 32 years old would never be construed as a dangerous age. But 32 year olds do die.

——

Unless you've some evidence that being 32 is a more lethal age now than it has been in recent years, you should probably try a different line of argument.

Woah, the professional contrarian strikes again in an effort to prove that Covid is nothing to worry about.

Absolutely weird the emotional investment some people have in trying to prove that wrong is right.

As a demonstration of Dunning-Kruger, you're a beaut.

Ah the Dunning Krueger response. The "here's one I made earlier" for Internet debaters.


I'm not trying to prove anything. You are. You are trying to prove that Covid is a serious issue for young people. Your evidence was a solitary, poorly written, poorly researched piece of gutter journalism regarding a single person.

I am fully entitled to deflect nonsense like this into the "would your ever wise your f**king head up" pile.

Now stop calling me names. Humour me. Tell me why Covid is dangerous for young people, while bearing in mind that young people die every hour of the day from all sorts of causes.
I think it's fairly obvious you're trying to prove you're an idiot, and you're doing a damn fine job, as you have been for long, long time on this forum with your empty trolling.

My word, a workplace and a local newspaper reporting the death of a young person from Covid is now called "gutter journalism" by you.

Some people hate facts, though, don't they, especially when they're trying to push a Brendan O'Neill Spiked Online view of the world and reality intrudes on that little trolling fantasy.






I take it you are aware that you tried to position a newspaper article with no research or proof as a fact?

Hypocrite too.
This guy wobbler apparently knows more than the dead woman's parents

Did somebody say "know it all"?

Wobbler is merely analysing the info in the article posted. It's vitally important that the accuracy , veracity and context of any death potentially related to Covid is held up to scrutiny. Wobbler is correct in saying that younger people can die unexpectedly for any number of reasons. What we do know is that deaths due to Covid in young healthy people appears to be rare , even on a global scale. This has been a challenging time , and we are learning more about this virus and the effects of lockdown each day. If premature and possibly inaccurate or over exaggerated assumptions are Made about deaths at this time, it can create unnecessary alarm, and potentially bring back further restrictions which have massive implications for health. If Covid related news or stories are not subject to scrutiny , then it's a free-for-all of "bad science". Calm reflection and decisions based on appropriate scientific evidence is essential. High expressed emotion and "Covid blaming" is likely to be counterproductive .
Wobbler has had a consistent agenda to downplay the severity and risk of the virus for months now, including "just putting it out there" that masks are bad for you

It's classic far right narrativising - use fog, deflection, trigger words, passive aggressiveness, straw men and general trolling in order to confuse

Young people dying from Covid offends his confirmation bias which determines what he wants to believe

Generally I find that whatever side of an argument Wobbler decides to pick will be the wrong one - some people, for whatever reason, just decide to be like that, but they shouldn't think others don't see them for what they are

Contrarianism if used well can be a valuable quality, consistent contrarianism on everything just makes you an arsehole who should be ignored, and that's what Wobbler is

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on August 15, 2020, 03:19:09 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 15, 2020, 01:00:47 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on August 14, 2020, 06:29:14 PM
A mini outbreak in a mushroom factory today in Tipperary. They announce they will shut and do a deep clean of the plant. If they shut for 3 days is there any need to do a deep clean? The virus can survive on various surfaces for up to three days.

Talk of Tipp going into lockdown now too.

I doubt that unless their cluster becomes hard to control. This chap keeps track of the current situation. Laois restrictions will soon be lifted if cases continue to drop while Carlow are the next county in danger of having restrictions applied.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfZbEunWoAEMU-P?format=png&name=medium)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 15, 2020, 03:49:12 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 15, 2020, 03:19:09 PM
I doubt that unless their cluster becomes hard to control. This chap keeps track of the current situation. Laois restrictions will soon be lifted if cases continue to drop while Carlow are the next county in danger of having restrictions applied.

Even Carlow has come down, although only marginally, which should save them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on August 15, 2020, 06:03:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 15, 2020, 03:18:57 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on August 15, 2020, 01:40:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 15, 2020, 11:06:00 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 06:00:50 PM
You a
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 04:46:07 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 04:33:34 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 04:13:03 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 14, 2020, 04:06:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 14, 2020, 03:49:14 PM
32 years old

But I thought Covid wasn't dangerous to young people - well, at least that's what some posters here have been saying

http://www.ballymenaguardian.co.uk/news/2020/08/14/gallery/all-at-nobel-cafe-utterly-heartbroken-by-death-of-dear-friend-and-colleague-10886/



It might help you grasp things better if you think of it like this:

Being 32 years old would never be construed as a dangerous age. But 32 year olds do die.

——

Unless you've some evidence that being 32 is a more lethal age now than it has been in recent years, you should probably try a different line of argument.

Woah, the professional contrarian strikes again in an effort to prove that Covid is nothing to worry about.

Absolutely weird the emotional investment some people have in trying to prove that wrong is right.

As a demonstration of Dunning-Kruger, you're a beaut.

Ah the Dunning Krueger response. The "here's one I made earlier" for Internet debaters.


I'm not trying to prove anything. You are. You are trying to prove that Covid is a serious issue for young people. Your evidence was a solitary, poorly written, poorly researched piece of gutter journalism regarding a single person.

I am fully entitled to deflect nonsense like this into the "would your ever wise your f**king head up" pile.

Now stop calling me names. Humour me. Tell me why Covid is dangerous for young people, while bearing in mind that young people die every hour of the day from all sorts of causes.
I think it's fairly obvious you're trying to prove you're an idiot, and you're doing a damn fine job, as you have been for long, long time on this forum with your empty trolling.

My word, a workplace and a local newspaper reporting the death of a young person from Covid is now called "gutter journalism" by you.

Some people hate facts, though, don't they, especially when they're trying to push a Brendan O'Neill Spiked Online view of the world and reality intrudes on that little trolling fantasy.






I take it you are aware that you tried to position a newspaper article with no research or proof as a fact?

Hypocrite too.
This guy wobbler apparently knows more than the dead woman's parents

Did somebody say "know it all"?

Wobbler is merely analysing the info in the article posted. It's vitally important that the accuracy , veracity and context of any death potentially related to Covid is held up to scrutiny. Wobbler is correct in saying that younger people can die unexpectedly for any number of reasons. What we do know is that deaths due to Covid in young healthy people appears to be rare , even on a global scale. This has been a challenging time , and we are learning more about this virus and the effects of lockdown each day. If premature and possibly inaccurate or over exaggerated assumptions are Made about deaths at this time, it can create unnecessary alarm, and potentially bring back further restrictions which have massive implications for health. If Covid related news or stories are not subject to scrutiny , then it's a free-for-all of "bad science". Calm reflection and decisions based on appropriate scientific evidence is essential. High expressed emotion and "Covid blaming" is likely to be counterproductive .
Wobbler has had a consistent agenda to downplay the severity and risk of the virus for months now, including "just putting it out there" that masks are bad for you

It's classic far right narrativising - use fog, deflection, trigger words, passive aggressiveness, straw men and general trolling in order to confuse

Young people dying from Covid offends his confirmation bias which determines what he wants to believe

Generally I find that whatever side of an argument Wobbler decides to pick will be the wrong one - some people, for whatever reason, just decide to be like that, but they shouldn't think others don't see them for what they are

Contrarianism if used well can be a valuable quality, consistent contrarianism on everything just makes you an arsehole who should be ignored, and that's what Wobbler is

Absolutely none of this deflects from the fact that you cherrypicked an isolated and poorly researched article as evidence that Covid is dangerous to young people. You so badly want to prove yourself right that you're now incapable of evaluating content. I'd have much more respect for you if just this once admitted that it wasn't your best hour. Then move on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on August 15, 2020, 06:23:41 PM
200 new cases in the 26 :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on August 15, 2020, 06:38:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 15, 2020, 06:23:41 PM
200 new cases in the 26 :(

Should have been 130 each the last two days. Yesterday under reported and today over reported.  260 cases from over 21,000 tests the last 48hrs.  Kildare still showing high daily cases with 81 today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 15, 2020, 08:09:23 PM
All the same with 65 in the 6, which is equally bad, there are now 25 times as many cases as when things were better.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2020, 10:51:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 15, 2020, 08:09:23 PM
All the same with 65 in the 6, which is equally bad, there are now 25 times as many cases as when things were better.

Has the death rate went down from when it started in comparison to current rates?

What I'm trying to say is it high cases far less death rate?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 15, 2020, 11:49:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2020, 10:51:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 15, 2020, 08:09:23 PM
All the same with 65 in the 6, which is equally bad, there are now 25 times as many cases as when things were better.

Has the death rate went down from when it started in comparison to current rates?

What I'm trying to say is it high cases far less death rate?

The reported death rate is a combination of the actual death rate and the proportion of people that you manage to test. Testing has improved so the number of reported cases has gone up relative to deaths. In addition, the age profile of the people getting it is different, you have a different outcome in a factory than and old folks home. And last but not least people don't die for a month.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 16, 2020, 06:18:04 PM
Cases in the ROI this week =557 (7 more than last week)
Deaths reported = 2 ( I think all 2 deaths happened months ago)

Last week around 30,000 tests was carried out compared to near 50,000 in the last 7 days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on August 17, 2020, 07:21:52 PM
Good news another day without a death.

Bad news 8 in ICU and 21 in hospital (I don't know if that's 29 in total in hospital).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on August 17, 2020, 09:10:37 PM
Quote from: highorlow on August 17, 2020, 07:21:52 PM
Good news another day without a death.

Bad news 8 in ICU and 21 in hospital (I don't know if that's 29 in total in hospital).

21 total. Positive tests to be added in from the last 48hrs so it won't be surprise if we get a 3 digit figure of cases in the days ahead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyroneman on August 19, 2020, 09:23:07 AM
So many people genuinely don't seem to give a fcuk these days - social distancing +  masks are for other people, not for them

I've heard various folks claim Covid has been totally over exaggerated, where they rely on the lower numbers/R-Rate that came from lock down as evidence ........ rather than acknowledging that the lockdown + people following the guidance during it was the very reason for the lower numbers/R-rate in the first place.

It's like taking a vaccine for a disease, then claiming the disease wasn't harmful anyway, because you didn't come down with it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 19, 2020, 10:37:37 AM
I work in Belfast and everyone that comes through my door is wearing a mask and using the sanitizer at the door, otherwise they don't get in. people are complying, if they 'forget' their mask one will be provided at the door...

You get the odd clampit not wearing one in a shop or whatever, but unfortunately that is the responsibility of the owners..

If people comply and keep washing hands and social distancing would that bring down the annual flu rate?

We are probably over the top with screens apron masks and gloves, but we work with the elderly a lot, better safe than sorry.

I've been tested recently just as a precaution and all negative, had no symptoms but I'm taking my dad to hospital appointments and with his condition i just wanted to be sure .

Any word on successful vaccines being put out to the public soon? Was speaking to a client today and they had a friend that died, early 60's no ill health, caught it at a family funeral! christ the night!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on August 19, 2020, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 19, 2020, 10:37:37 AM
I work in Belfast and everyone that comes through my door is wearing a mask and using the sanitizer at the door, otherwise they don't get in. people are complying, if they 'forget' their mask one will be provided at the door...

You get the odd clampit not wearing one in a shop or whatever, but unfortunately that is the responsibility of the owners..

If people comply and keep washing hands and social distancing would that bring down the annual flu rate?

We are probably over the top with screens apron masks and gloves, but we work with the elderly a lot, better safe than sorry.

I've been tested recently just as a precaution and all negative, had no symptoms but I'm taking my dad to hospital appointments and with his condition i just wanted to be sure .

Any word on successful vaccines being put out to the public soon? Was speaking to a client today and they had a friend that died, early 60's no ill health, caught it at a family funeral! christ the night!
Very good points MR.
Small sacrifices not only can reduce risk of spread of Covid but also of Flu etc.
On your last point , There may be cases where Someone is not elderly , and are "healthy" who have died "with Covid", but thankfully these events seem to very rare. I think the department of health should be giving better quality anonymised information on the small number of people outside of "vulnerable groups" who died "with Covid ", and clarify if they had any risk factors including obesity, ethnicity etc, and if their death was directly related to Covid. Not doubting the authenticity of your story, but any second hand Anecdotal information Should always be put in context , to avoid "Covid alarm "
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 19, 2020, 11:33:22 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on August 19, 2020, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 19, 2020, 10:37:37 AM
I work in Belfast and everyone that comes through my door is wearing a mask and using the sanitizer at the door, otherwise they don't get in. people are complying, if they 'forget' their mask one will be provided at the door...

You get the odd clampit not wearing one in a shop or whatever, but unfortunately that is the responsibility of the owners..

If people comply and keep washing hands and social distancing would that bring down the annual flu rate?

We are probably over the top with screens apron masks and gloves, but we work with the elderly a lot, better safe than sorry.

I've been tested recently just as a precaution and all negative, had no symptoms but I'm taking my dad to hospital appointments and with his condition i just wanted to be sure .

Any word on successful vaccines being put out to the public soon? Was speaking to a client today and they had a friend that died, early 60's no ill health, caught it at a family funeral! christ the night!
Very good points MR.
Small sacrifices not only can reduce risk of spread of Covid but also of Flu etc.
On your last point , There may be cases where Someone is not elderly , and are "healthy" who have died "with Covid", but thankfully these events seem to very rare. I think the department of health should be giving better quality anonymised information on the small number of people outside of "vulnerable groups" who died "with Covid ", and clarify if they had any risk factors including obesity, ethnicity etc, and if their death was directly related to Covid. Not doubting the authenticity of your story, but any second hand Anecdotal information has

Should always be put in context , to avoid "Covid alarm "

Rational news doesn't sell.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 19, 2020, 11:42:37 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on August 19, 2020, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 19, 2020, 10:37:37 AM
I work in Belfast and everyone that comes through my door is wearing a mask and using the sanitizer at the door, otherwise they don't get in. people are complying, if they 'forget' their mask one will be provided at the door...

You get the odd clampit not wearing one in a shop or whatever, but unfortunately that is the responsibility of the owners..

If people comply and keep washing hands and social distancing would that bring down the annual flu rate?

We are probably over the top with screens apron masks and gloves, but we work with the elderly a lot, better safe than sorry.

I've been tested recently just as a precaution and all negative, had no symptoms but I'm taking my dad to hospital appointments and with his condition i just wanted to be sure .

Any word on successful vaccines being put out to the public soon? Was speaking to a client today and they had a friend that died, early 60's no ill health, caught it at a family funeral! christ the night!
Very good points MR.
Small sacrifices not only can reduce risk of spread of Covid but also of Flu etc.
On your last point , There may be cases where Someone is not elderly , and are "healthy" who have died "with Covid", but thankfully these events seem to very rare. I think the department of health should be giving better quality anonymised information on the small number of people outside of "vulnerable groups" who died "with Covid ", and clarify if they had any risk factors including obesity, ethnicity etc, and if their death was directly related to Covid. Not doubting the authenticity of your story, but any second hand Anecdotal information Should always be put in context , to avoid "Covid alarm "

Firstly a risk factor does not imply that you are going to die soon and many people are dying at age 60 when they could easily live another 30 years. Secondly, it isn't only people who die, there are people who have been very ill. One 33 year old was on the radio this morning, who has been ill since March. As he said, it isn't flu. Another caller has a sporting teenage son who has been banjaxed by Covid. There is evidence of Covid doing possibly long term damage to people even though they had few symptoms.

On the lighter side, Lukashenko told Belarusians to protect their health by drinking vodka, riding tractors and taking saunas.
Riding tractors should reduce incidence in Mayo anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 19, 2020, 11:58:09 AM
I think the main reason people are not taking it seriously is because the Government(s) are not committing to mass testing. So there is kind of a "they aren't taking it serious, why should we?" thing going on.

Mass testing would answer ALOT of questions, yet they have no interest in undergoing it hoping to bypass that outlay by the app (which not many, have really bothered with either after the initial surge).

Obviously the cases that people tell that people got sick are the ones we remember, I didn't know a soul with it until about 4 weeks ago then two friends of mine became infected. So I can only go on their experiences but they basically brushed it off in a weekend (and they were the ones knew for certain they had it via positive tests, one had a sore throat which they blamed on the actual swab test off the throat and the other had no idea they had it whatsoever but tested positive 3 times in a week then it was negative). It does go both ways with this one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on August 19, 2020, 12:35:10 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 19, 2020, 11:58:09 AM
I think the main reason people are not taking it seriously is because the Government(s) are not committing to mass testing. So there is kind of a "they aren't taking it serious, why should we?" thing going on.

Mass testing would answer ALOT of questions, yet they have no interest in undergoing it hoping to bypass that outlay by the app (which not many, have really bothered with either after the initial surge).

Obviously the cases that people tell that people got sick are the ones we remember, I didn't know a soul with it until about 4 weeks ago then two friends of mine became infected. So I can only go on their experiences but they basically brushed it off in a weekend (and they were the ones knew for certain they had it via positive tests, one had a sore throat which they blamed on the actual swab test off the throat and the other had no idea they had it whatsoever but tested positive 3 times in a week then it was negative). It does go both ways with this one.

I know a couple of people who "brushed it off" in a couple of days also in May. Both have now developed heart inflammation within the last few weeks. A significant number of people are getting delayed symptoms apparently, even people who were initially asymptomatic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 19, 2020, 12:54:58 PM
Quote from: lenny on August 19, 2020, 12:35:10 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 19, 2020, 11:58:09 AM
I think the main reason people are not taking it seriously is because the Government(s) are not committing to mass testing. So there is kind of a "they aren't taking it serious, why should we?" thing going on.

Mass testing would answer ALOT of questions, yet they have no interest in undergoing it hoping to bypass that outlay by the app (which not many, have really bothered with either after the initial surge).

Obviously the cases that people tell that people got sick are the ones we remember, I didn't know a soul with it until about 4 weeks ago then two friends of mine became infected. So I can only go on their experiences but they basically brushed it off in a weekend (and they were the ones knew for certain they had it via positive tests, one had a sore throat which they blamed on the actual swab test off the throat and the other had no idea they had it whatsoever but tested positive 3 times in a week then it was negative). It does go both ways with this one.

I know a couple of people who "brushed it off" in a couple of days also in May. Both have now developed heart inflammation within the last few weeks. A significant number of people are getting delayed symptoms apparently, even people who were initially asymptomatic.

Can only go on my own details and knowledge. Sorry to hear this isn't the case your side. I've no interest in playing sides, just want to explain that every single bit of news that we hear is negative these days. That isn't entirely the case.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 19, 2020, 02:11:13 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/coronavirus-house-closed-by-court-order-for-three-months-after-200-strong-lockdown-party/ar-BB187s5i?li=BBoPWjQ
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on August 19, 2020, 03:15:54 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 19, 2020, 12:54:58 PM
Quote from: lenny on August 19, 2020, 12:35:10 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 19, 2020, 11:58:09 AM
I think the main reason people are not taking it seriously is because the Government(s) are not committing to mass testing. So there is kind of a "they aren't taking it serious, why should we?" thing going on.

Mass testing would answer ALOT of questions, yet they have no interest in undergoing it hoping to bypass that outlay by the app (which not many, have really bothered with either after the initial surge).

Obviously the cases that people tell that people got sick are the ones we remember, I didn't know a soul with it until about 4 weeks ago then two friends of mine became infected. So I can only go on their experiences but they basically brushed it off in a weekend (and they were the ones knew for certain they had it via positive tests, one had a sore throat which they blamed on the actual swab test off the throat and the other had no idea they had it whatsoever but tested positive 3 times in a week then it was negative). It does go both ways with this one.

I know a couple of people who "brushed it off" in a couple of days also in May. Both have now developed heart inflammation within the last few weeks. A significant number of people are getting delayed symptoms apparently, even people who were initially asymptomatic.

Can only go on my own details and knowledge. Sorry to hear this isn't the case your side. I've no interest in playing sides, just want to explain that every single bit of news that we hear is negative these days. That isn't entirely the case.

That's totally fair, I just wanted to point out that a significant number of people who thought they'd got over this unscathed are now presenting with complications weeks later. My friends were told by the consultant that this is becoming quite common so this virus is to be avoided if possible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Denn Forever on August 19, 2020, 04:54:36 PM
If this is true, apologies for the WTF tread

.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeD0qhR5XOY

Shock jock tv show.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on August 19, 2020, 06:26:50 PM
Went into my local MACE to get a coffee.  Nobody wearing masks and had to spend cash because it was £5 minimum spend on cards.  We're not helping ourselves at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on August 19, 2020, 06:37:39 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 19, 2020, 04:54:36 PM
If this is true, apologies for the WTF tread

.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeD0qhR5XOY

Shock jock tv show.

They look like trustworthy characters alright lol. Too much of this shite being spouted instead of listening to experts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on August 19, 2020, 08:26:42 PM
Quote from: lenny on August 19, 2020, 06:37:39 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 19, 2020, 04:54:36 PM
If this is true, apologies for the WTF tread

.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeD0qhR5XOY

Shock jock tv show.

They look like trustworthy characters alright lol. Too much of this shite being spouted instead of listening to experts.

You might not like their politics but what they are alleging is very serious for the Chinese government.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on August 19, 2020, 08:41:24 PM
Quote from: lenny on August 19, 2020, 06:37:39 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 19, 2020, 04:54:36 PM
If this is true, apologies for the WTF tread

.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeD0qhR5XOY

Shock jock tv show.

They look like trustworthy characters alright lol. Too much of this shite being spouted instead of listening to experts.

Qho are the expects? That's the question.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on August 19, 2020, 10:51:13 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 19, 2020, 08:41:24 PM
Quote from: lenny on August 19, 2020, 06:37:39 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 19, 2020, 04:54:36 PM
If this is true, apologies for the WTF tread

.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeD0qhR5XOY

Shock jock tv show.

They look like trustworthy characters alright lol. Too much of this shite being spouted instead of listening to experts.

Qho are the expects? That's the question.

That is a question. 🥴
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on August 19, 2020, 11:18:43 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on August 19, 2020, 06:26:50 PM
Went into my local MACE to get a coffee.  Nobody wearing masks and had to spend cash because it was £5 minimum spend on cards.  We're not helping ourselves at all.
The sort of place I would walk out of (if I had alternatives nearby). What is the deal with the minimum spend - I remember back in the smday they used to say the bank charged vendors for card transactions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 19, 2020, 11:39:39 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 19, 2020, 11:18:43 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on August 19, 2020, 06:26:50 PM
Went into my local MACE to get a coffee.  Nobody wearing masks and had to spend cash because it was £5 minimum spend on cards.  We're not helping ourselves at all.
The sort of place I would walk out of (if I had alternatives nearby). What is the deal with the minimum spend - I remember back in the smday they used to say the bank charged vendors for card transactions.

Of course banks charge, and still charge, who else pays for the service.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 20, 2020, 05:22:23 PM
There is a rake of Covid at some meat plant in Cullybackey.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 20, 2020, 05:25:24 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-53842281

So Belfast, then.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on August 20, 2020, 05:40:40 PM
Some amount of testing going on in Italy and huge number of asymptomatic cases. I'd wonder is it the same with Ireland with confirmed cases so low in hospital?

(https://i.ibb.co/kmFK4v7/Screenshot-20200820-173123-2.png) (https://ibb.co/PD8xc0L)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 20, 2020, 06:25:12 PM
This is not a large amount of testing, the ROI  did 11,416 tests in the last 24 hours which is twice that number per capita.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on August 20, 2020, 06:48:31 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 19, 2020, 08:41:24 PM
Quote from: lenny on August 19, 2020, 06:37:39 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on August 19, 2020, 04:54:36 PM
If this is true, apologies for the WTF tread

.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeD0qhR5XOY

Shock jock tv show.

They look like trustworthy characters alright lol. Too much of this shite being spouted instead of listening to experts.

Qho are the expects? That's the question.

I think we can rule out those 2 nutters anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on August 20, 2020, 07:15:08 PM
Oireachtas Golf Society breaches guidelines the day after they're announced.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40035389.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on August 20, 2020, 07:16:52 PM
Just beat me to it Gallsman.
It's the FF way!!
136 cases announced in the 26 this evening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on August 20, 2020, 08:11:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 20, 2020, 06:25:12 PM
This is not a large amount of testing, the ROI  did 11,416 tests in the last 24 hours which is twice that number per capita.

Yes we have ramped up testing again. That's the 2nd highest daily testing number for 24hrs. The last 7 days is second highest figure for weekly tests.

From over a 1000 cases the last 2 weeks we currently have 18 in hospital 6 of them in ICU.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 20, 2020, 08:51:06 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 20, 2020, 07:15:08 PM
Oireachtas Golf Society breaches guidelines the day after they're announced.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40035389.html
Donie Cassidy must have organised the event because he felt the duty to give the audience the benefit of his many years of expertise and experience on the subject of pandemics

Personally I'm absolutely flabbergasted that men of the calibre of Dara Calleary and Noel Grealish would have flagrantly broken the rules one day after their introduction

When you think of selfish, self-entitled politicians, you'd never think of Dara Calleary or Noel Grealish, never, definitely not

Flabbergasted, I tells ya
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on August 21, 2020, 08:19:03 AM
Calleary gone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 21, 2020, 08:22:33 AM
Jaysus. Not often politicians go these days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 21, 2020, 08:28:11 AM
Maybe racist sc**bag Noel Grealish might now decide to quit politics forever

Yeah right, some hope

The very definition of useless career politician, ie. somebody in it for himself, and not for anybody else

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 21, 2020, 09:03:48 AM
QuoteImagine throwing a hissy fit because you didn't get the job, then getting the job because of your predecessor's transgression and after less than 2 months in said job having to resign because of your own transgressions. Our politicians are not the brightest

Saw that on twitter. Had to laugh.

At least resigning is still a thing in the 26. There are a lot of politicians between the north and england who should have resigned many times over so it is at least good to see that someone somewhere has some accountability.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on August 21, 2020, 10:19:11 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 21, 2020, 09:03:48 AM
QuoteImagine throwing a hissy fit because you didn't get the job, then getting the job because of your predecessor's transgression and after less than 2 months in said job having to resign because of your own transgressions. Our politicians are not the brightest

Saw that on twitter. Had to laugh.

At least resigning is still a thing in the 26. There are a lot of politicians between the north and england who should have resigned many times over so it is at least good to see that someone somewhere has some accountability.

Did SF's Mc Kay and SDLP's Conal? not quit/resign etc. over issues a few years ago?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 21, 2020, 10:40:05 AM
Good point actually. Forget about them. Also McElduff.

I guess Cummings and various others were in the forefront of my mind and I forgot!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on August 21, 2020, 12:15:18 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 21, 2020, 10:19:11 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 21, 2020, 09:03:48 AM
QuoteImagine throwing a hissy fit because you didn't get the job, then getting the job because of your predecessor's transgression and after less than 2 months in said job having to resign because of your own transgressions. Our politicians are not the brightest

Saw that on twitter. Had to laugh.

At least resigning is still a thing in the 26. There are a lot of politicians between the north and england who should have resigned many times over so it is at least good to see that someone somewhere has some accountability.

Did SF's Mc Kay and SDLP's Conal? not quit/resign etc. over issues a few years ago?

Mike Nesbitt also resigned in the early days of the pandemic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on August 21, 2020, 12:20:56 PM
On the subject of resigning - am I right in thinking that Calleary will still be eligible for his full ministerial pension?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 21, 2020, 12:36:19 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on August 21, 2020, 12:20:56 PM
On the subject of resigning - am I right in thinking that Calleary will still be eligible for his full ministerial pension?
No, you have to do two years as a minister rather than two weeks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on August 21, 2020, 01:11:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 21, 2020, 12:36:19 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on August 21, 2020, 12:20:56 PM
On the subject of resigning - am I right in thinking that Calleary will still be eligible for his full ministerial pension?
No, you have to do two years as a minister rather than two weeks

Is he still a TD or does he just lose his ministry?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on August 21, 2020, 01:36:45 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 21, 2020, 01:11:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 21, 2020, 12:36:19 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on August 21, 2020, 12:20:56 PM
On the subject of resigning - am I right in thinking that Calleary will still be eligible for his full ministerial pension?
No, you have to do two years as a minister rather than two weeks

Is he still a TD or does he just lose his ministry?

Resigned the ministry.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on August 21, 2020, 03:20:05 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 21, 2020, 01:36:45 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 21, 2020, 01:11:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 21, 2020, 12:36:19 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on August 21, 2020, 12:20:56 PM
On the subject of resigning - am I right in thinking that Calleary will still be eligible for his full ministerial pension?
No, you have to do two years as a minister rather than two weeks

Is he still a TD or does he just lose his ministry?

Resigned the ministry.

So he basically just takes a step down for a while...keeps his nose clean and then he'll be in the running again in a few months.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 21, 2020, 05:21:34 PM
Kildare restrictions extended for two more weeks. Laois and Offaly measures lifted with immediate effect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on August 21, 2020, 05:41:05 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 21, 2020, 03:20:05 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 21, 2020, 01:36:45 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 21, 2020, 01:11:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 21, 2020, 12:36:19 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on August 21, 2020, 12:20:56 PM
On the subject of resigning - am I right in thinking that Calleary will still be eligible for his full ministerial pension?
No, you have to do two years as a minister rather than two weeks

Is he still a TD or does he just lose his ministry?

Resigned the ministry.

So he basically just takes a step down for a while...keeps his nose clean and then he'll be in the running again in a few months.

Precisely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 23, 2020, 06:47:15 PM
Cases in the ROI this week = 732 (175 more than last week but we had more tests this week compared to last week)

Deaths reported = 6 ( Its not sure how many of those 6 happened this week and 3 deaths was denotified this week)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 23, 2020, 10:18:32 PM
119 in 6 counties today, not so good, most European countries are less than that!  Covid seems to have done more damage to police barracks than the IRA campaign.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on August 23, 2020, 10:37:47 PM
Trump announces a cure .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on August 24, 2020, 06:10:10 AM

https://www.ft.com/content/25da4c31-f79a-4aa2-a9c9-a5c31546e5df

According to the latest figures from the EU's European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, Spain recorded 153 cases per 100,000 in the previous 14 days — compared with 121 for Malta, 96 for Luxembourg, 87 for Romania, 60 for France, 56 for Belgium, 22 for the UK and 20 for Germany.



Martin Blachier, an epidemiologist at Public Health Expertise in Paris, said his consultancy estimpl0ated that there were at present about 20,000 new infections a day in France (including the thousands confirmed by testing), compared with 400,000 a day at the height of the pandemic
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 24, 2020, 07:14:40 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 23, 2020, 10:18:32 PM
119 in 6 counties today, not so good, most European countries are less than that!  Covid seems to have done more damage to police barracks than the IRA campaign.

Any terrorist group would probably view this as the perfect attack. (Not a Jim Corr/ conspiracy  theory - an observation!)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on August 24, 2020, 03:06:55 PM
It's quite fascinating how the so called "pro-life" campaign during the 8th Amendment has evolved into the anti-lockdown and anti-Covid restrictions campaign, ie. the pro-death camp

Calleary and Grealish, the only two TDs at the golf jolly in Clifden were both pro-8th Amendment

Phil Hogan wrote stridently in 2011: "Fine Gael is opposed to the legalistion of abortion"

Sean O'Rourke's views became obvious during the 2018 referendum campaign when he continually gave No campaigners a free ride

The I Own Her "Institute" are well known anti-lockdown, anti-restrictions people

Far right media outlet Gript.ie, which evolved out of 1992 anti-abortion whack jobs Youth Defence, continually agitates against restrictions

The loonies at the Customs House on Saturday are all anti-abortion fundamentalists

In the US, the anti-lockdown people are basically all anti-abortion

The link between anti-abortionism and anti-Covid restrictions is undeniable, they are both integral parts of the same right wing culture war
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 24, 2020, 03:10:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 24, 2020, 03:06:55 PM
It's quite fascinating how the so called "pro-life" campaign during the 8th Amendment has evolved into the anti-lockdown and anti-Covid restrictions campaign, ie. the pro-death camp

Calleary and Grealish, the only two TDs at the golf jolly in Clifden were both pro-8th Amendment

Phil Hogan wrote stridently in 2011: "Fine Gael is opposed to the legalistion of abortion"

Sean O'Rourke's views became obvious during the 2018 referendum campaign when he continually gave No campaigners a free ride

The I Own Her "Institute" are well known anti-lockdown, anti-restrictions people

Far right media outlet Gript.ie, which evolved out of 1992 anti-abortion whack jobs Youth Defence, continually agitates against restrictions

The loonies at the Customs House on Saturday are all anti-abortion fundamentalists

In the US, the anti-lockdown people are basically all anti-abortion

The link between anti-abortionism and anti-Covid restrictions is undeniable, they are both integral parts of the same right wing culture war

Yes, some of these loonies believe in conspiracy theories connecting disparate events into an improbable story.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on August 25, 2020, 12:09:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 24, 2020, 03:06:55 PM
It's quite fascinating how the so called "pro-life" campaign during the 8th Amendment has evolved into the anti-lockdown and anti-Covid restrictions campaign, ie. the pro-death camp

Calleary and Grealish, the only two TDs at the golf jolly in Clifden were both pro-8th Amendment

Phil Hogan wrote stridently in 2011: "Fine Gael is opposed to the legalistion of abortion"

Sean O'Rourke's views became obvious during the 2018 referendum campaign when he continually gave No campaigners a free ride

The I Own Her "Institute" are well known anti-lockdown, anti-restrictions people

Far right media outlet Gript.ie, which evolved out of 1992 anti-abortion whack jobs Youth Defence, continually agitates against restrictions

The loonies at the Customs House on Saturday are all anti-abortion fundamentalists

In the US, the anti-lockdown people are basically all anti-abortion

The link between anti-abortionism and anti-Covid restrictions is undeniable, they are both integral parts of the same right wing culture war
Great point.
At least they are a tiny minority in Ireland, unlike the US.

https://www.ft.com/content/1521cb7b-44fe-47f3-bdac-92372a8ef129

Donald Trump turned heads last week when he praised people who adhere to the QAnon conspiracy theory that claims Satan-worshipping paedophiles in powerful positions around the globe are gunning for the US president. "These are people that love our country," Mr Trump said at the White House. "They like me very much." Mr Trump was commenting after Marjorie Greene, a QAnon proponent, won a Republican primary in Georgia, before later distancing herself from the theory. She will almost certainly beat her Democratic opponent in the conservative district on November 3 — the same day that Mr Trump will face Joe Biden in the presidential election. After Mr Trump called Ms Greene a "future Republican star", Liz Cheney, the third-highest ranking Republican in the House of Representatives, said QAnon was "dangerous lunacy" that had no place in politics. Ben Sasse, a Nebraska Republican, went even further: "QAnon is nuts. And real leaders [would] call conspiracy theories conspiracy theories. If Democrats take the Senate in November, blow up the filibuster and pack the Supreme Court, garbage like this will be a big part of why they won."

Charlie Sykes, an influential conservative critic of Mr Trump, is in no doubt: "There is no going back after four years of Trump," he says. "It's not just that he has changed the party, the party has changed itself. We have a voter problem. We've already had a fight for the soul of the Republican party, [during the 2016 race] and lost," Mr Sykes says. "Now we're just haggling over the spoils."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: fearbrags on August 25, 2020, 07:25:33 PM
Rules are only for plebs  ;)😉
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0825/1161161-phil-hogan/?fbclid=IwAR0iuuvzzxDfghY4yP2P2QF7OQ60kZkr6SwolPD3mvXWtEmTg2jQSeLgbh8
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on August 27, 2020, 11:31:47 AM
A few cases now starting to pop up around the sports teams in Lurgan, both Gaelic and Soccer.  Schools starting to go back.  It is all very clearly the beginning of the second wave, but the public panic seems to have now significantly reduced.  Has society now just accepted that we have to try and deal with this as best we can, while carrying on as close to the new normal as possible?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyroneman on August 27, 2020, 12:30:49 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on August 27, 2020, 11:31:47 AM
A few cases now starting to pop up around the sports teams in Lurgan, both Gaelic and Soccer.  Schools starting to go back.  It is all very clearly the beginning of the second wave, but the public panic seems to have now significantly reduced.  Has society now just accepted that we have to try and deal with this as best we can, while carrying on as close to the new normal as possible?

I think a lot of people just didn't take it seriously after the frst lockdown.

I've heard numerous people basically say it was a fuss over nothing as numbers turned out lower than forecast after the first lockdown....rather than acknowledge that it was actually the lockdown itself and people doing what they were supposed to be doing that kept the numbers low.

Like taking a flu jab then not believing the flu exists because you didn't get it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 27, 2020, 01:40:02 PM
This will probably erupt, but honestly, people are just becoming sick of it.....every day, all day for past X months - constant negative news. It surely has an accumulative effect on the collective mindset.

Add in ridiculous rules like you can go on a bender as long as you buy a 9 euro pizza, but you can't go for a pint in a quiet country bar. People are becoming more and more pissed off with the constant nonsensical decisions being made. I can see mass disobedience on the horizon, maybe not this month or next. I know many more families financially ruined by Covid 19 than I know of families with those infected with Covid 19 which in itself is completely unacceptable.

I've worked in an office the whole way through this, everyone is of much the same opinion here. We have seen people at home on the beer having parties via whatever form of social media over the past few months, all paid of course. In the North here little to no deaths, hardly anybody in hospital. Of course there is going to be an acceptance or relaxation on that basis. We see our elected representatives in both sides of the border seemingly do as they please, as long as it suits them.

I hate the term 'second wave', by its very nature its a negative connotation. Covid 19 is never fully going away until such time if/when mass immunisation is complete, it's not like it has went away for a month or two here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on August 27, 2020, 02:04:49 PM
So the rule is you can go on a bender so long as you have a 9 inch pizza!!

That would be a ridiculous rule. But it's not the rule.

People are breaking the rules, maybe they're the ridiculous ones.

Country pubs will be let open in mid Sep I believe. They just couldn't risk opening any further last time with numbers going in the wrong direction and it being so close to schools re-opening.

although to be honest, it wasn't too difficult for pubs to open if they put their minds to it.
- phone line to take bookings and keep record of attendees
- table service only
- distance between tables
- provide food
- 2 hour slots for bookings

It was harsh, but probably the right call to not allow pubs to open who couldn't do the above. Cases will still come but need to be able to track them down quickly when they do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on August 27, 2020, 02:14:17 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 27, 2020, 02:04:49 PM
So the rule is you can go on a bender so long as you have a 9 inch pizza!!

That would be a ridiculous rule. But it's not the rule.

People are breaking the rules, maybe they're the ridiculous ones.

Country pubs will be let open in mid Sep I believe. They just couldn't risk opening any further last time with numbers going in the wrong direction and it being so close to schools re-opening.

although to be honest, it wasn't too difficult for pubs to open if they put their minds to it.
- phone line to take bookings and keep record of attendees
- table service only
- distance between tables
- provide food
- 2 hour slots for bookings

It was harsh, but probably the right call to not allow pubs to open who couldn't do the above. Cases will still come but need to be able to track them down quickly when they do.

Do you have much experience of your typical country pub?

To say the sentence in bold and then follow with that list is a bit mad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 27, 2020, 02:22:42 PM
BTW - That was an example....that wasn't a pro open the bar post. Just an example of some of the nonsensical stuff thus far.

I've seen bars open (not a bit of food in sight either), rammed in towns. Where 2 mile out the road a bar with about 6 people in it tops, at any one time can't open. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 27, 2020, 03:00:54 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 27, 2020, 02:22:42 PM
BTW - That was an example....that wasn't a pro open the bar post. Just an example of some of the nonsensical stuff thus far.

I've seen bars open (not a bit of food in sight either), rammed in towns. Where 2 mile out the road a bar with about 6 people in it tops, at any one time can't open. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I made the point in the Golfgate thread that the hotel would probably not be prosecuted or penalised and that nobody there would lose their job.  They should at least be able to to say to pubs that are closed that they are enforcing the regulations on those that are open, but they don't really try.

But restaurants are different from pubs, you go to restaurant in a group and talk to that group with no interaction with other parties, you do not go to a restaurant to meet people. Pubs involve a whole other level of mixing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on August 27, 2020, 03:59:55 PM
The latest "Karen" theory is that Coronavirus  is obviously a scam because "the 81" went ahead with their dinner without any concerns.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on August 27, 2020, 04:28:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 27, 2020, 03:59:55 PM
The latest "Karen" theory is that Coronavirus  is obviously a scam because "the 81" went ahead with their dinner without any concerns.

If we can leave poor Karen out of this for a minute.

Golfgate saw a group awash with some of the most highly educated, highly connected, highly informed decisionmakers in the country come together to completely ignore the advice on social distancing, that has been drummed into us for 5 months.

Everyone in that room evaluated the social occasion as a risk worth taking.

They cannot be uninformed. Not in their roles. So does this mean they:

A. are extraordinarily stupid?, or
B. possess a God complex? or
C. understand the risk is negligible.


I don't think A is a reasonable position to take. There's nobody soft upstairs in that gathering. And by the way, having a different position on Covid does not make them stupid. Covid has evidentially been nowhere near as lethal as originally predicted.

So it's either B or C.


The answer is probably B. But I guarantee you that this gathering wouldn't have happened in April. As very few people trusted their inner God vs Covid then.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on August 27, 2020, 06:13:49 PM
0 deaths 93 more cases today

5 in ICU
29 in hospital

Some carry on with this girl... I'd say a foreign national, they just don't get it. At least mid west radio do Covid warning adverts in different languages. Time for RTE to follow suit.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/outbreak-at-care-home-after-worker-hid-her-virus-diagnosis-39482114.html


The north has 2 x sign language people in the background is that for Irish language and English? Bit OTT?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on August 27, 2020, 07:23:08 PM
Yes it's for the 2 sign languages.
Parity of Esteem.
I believe the Kildare lockdown to continue and pubs not to open next Monday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on August 27, 2020, 08:03:03 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 27, 2020, 04:28:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 27, 2020, 03:59:55 PM
The latest "Karen" theory is that Coronavirus  is obviously a scam because "the 81" went ahead with their dinner without any concerns.

If we can leave poor Karen out of this for a minute.

Golfgate saw a group awash with some of the most highly educated, highly connected, highly informed decisionmakers in the country come together to completely ignore the advice on social distancing, that has been drummed into us for 5 months.

Everyone in that room evaluated the social occasion as a risk worth taking.

They cannot be uninformed. Not in their roles. So does this mean they:

A. are extraordinarily stupid?, or
B. possess a God complex? or
C. understand the risk is negligible.


I don't think A is a reasonable position to take. There's nobody soft upstairs in that gathering. And by the way, having a different position on Covid does not make them stupid. Covid has evidentially been nowhere near as lethal as originally predicted.

So it's either B or C.


The answer is probably B. But I guarantee you that this gathering wouldn't have happened in April. As very few people trusted their inner God vs Covid then.

Was the hotel and golf course open in April?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on August 27, 2020, 08:42:45 PM
I'm not sure on your angle Smelmouth.

But I am sure that the levels of house parties and other informal gatherings rose dramatically in June. This was partly caused by boredom. But it was also fuelled by people assessing the risk as one worth taking, based on the lethal impact of Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on August 27, 2020, 11:57:36 PM
Pubs should open. Leave nightclubs shut. Time for life to get back to some kind of normal. Is there any hotspots in the north caused by the pubs opening?

The health overlords are truly losing the run of themselves at this stage. Flatten the curve they said....more people have died on roads in the last few weeks than with this virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on August 28, 2020, 01:05:43 AM
Quote from: highorlow on August 27, 2020, 06:13:49 PM
0 deaths 93 more cases today

5 in ICU
29 in hospital

Some carry on with this girl... I'd say a foreign national, they just don't get it. At least mid west radio do Covid warning adverts in different languages. Time for RTE to follow suit.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/outbreak-at-care-home-after-worker-hid-her-virus-diagnosis-39482114.html


The north has 2 x sign language people in the background is that for Irish language and English? Bit OTT?
"they don't get it, do they"? 

Who are the "they"?  and in this instance why assume the mother who works in the care facility doesn't understand enough english.
What language should the covid regulations be put into so that factory management and heath authorities understand their duties and responsibilities.
Those management who are supposed to supervise the health welfare of  low salaried workers in the refrigerated meat processing factories, the health authorities who are supposed to make sure that health welfare practices are in place.  that test and fast results also be in place  and all in knowing that red flags have been flying wildly about such workplaces for months.

it could be that the woman is working for crap wages  and can't afford to lose a weekend shift. Then thought better about it 2 days later, but up until her son came home from a virus infested shoddy workplace factory, she was probably doing alright.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 28, 2020, 08:54:42 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 27, 2020, 07:23:08 PM
Yes it's for the 2 sign languages.
Parity of Esteem.
I believe the Kildare lockdown to continue and pubs not to open next Monday.

Isl and
Quote from: highorlow on August 27, 2020, 06:13:49 PM
0 deaths 93 more cases today

5 in ICU
29 in hospital

Some carry on with this girl... I'd say a foreign national, they just don't get it. At least mid west radio do Covid warning adverts in different languages. Time for RTE to follow suit.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/outbreak-at-care-home-after-worker-hid-her-virus-diagnosis-39482114.html


The north has 2 x sign language people in the background is that for Irish language and English? Bit OTT?


I'm not sure they sign in 'Irish' more so that its the ISL and is very related to types of american sign language
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on August 28, 2020, 09:25:32 AM
Quoteit could be that the woman is working for crap wages  and can't afford to lose a weekend shift. Then thought better about it 2 days later, but up until her son came home from a virus infested shoddy workplace factory, she was probably doing alright.

Read the article again, or maybe don't bother as you are set in your ways, your probably one of those do gooders that also defends the ethnic travelling community when they race their pieballs down the motorway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: andoireabu on August 28, 2020, 10:09:30 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 28, 2020, 08:54:42 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 27, 2020, 07:23:08 PM
Yes it's for the 2 sign languages.
Parity of Esteem.
I believe the Kildare lockdown to continue and pubs not to open next Monday.

Isl and
Quote from: highorlow on August 27, 2020, 06:13:49 PM
0 deaths 93 more cases today

5 in ICU
29 in hospital

Some carry on with this girl... I'd say a foreign national, they just don't get it. At least mid west radio do Covid warning adverts in different languages. Time for RTE to follow suit.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/outbreak-at-care-home-after-worker-hid-her-virus-diagnosis-39482114.html


The north has 2 x sign language people in the background is that for Irish language and English? Bit OTT?


I'm not sure they sign in 'Irish' more so that its the ISL and is very related to types of american sign language

ISL and BSL. Both separate languages and neither a mirror of English or Gaeilge, I.e the ISL signer isn't signing "go raibh maith agat".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on August 28, 2020, 10:14:36 AM
Cheers for the sign language clarification. Didn't know about that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 28, 2020, 11:22:57 AM
Quote from: highorlow on August 27, 2020, 11:57:36 PM
Pubs should open. Leave nightclubs shut. Time for life to get back to some kind of normal. Is there any hotspots in the north caused by the pubs opening?

The health overlords are truly losing the run of themselves at this stage. Flatten the curve they said....more people have died on roads in the last few weeks than with this virus.

There has been a large cluster in the 26 counties because of a pub.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on August 28, 2020, 02:09:53 PM
Nearly every GAA club in lurgan has now been hit. House parties seem to have been the main cause of the spread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 28, 2020, 02:14:41 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on August 28, 2020, 02:09:53 PM
Nearly every GAA club in lurgan has now been hit. House parties seem to have been the main cause of the spread.

At this stage I'd actually go out on a limb and say it's not so much the house parties....its what ahem....goes on at them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on August 28, 2020, 02:32:52 PM
We are coming up on 6 months dealing with Covid-19 now and Covid fatigue if you you like is setting in. People are becoming fed up of the travel restrictions, meals in pubs etc.

All the negative news with rising daily case numbers and no sign of a vaccine doesn't help people's morale.

It's difficult for the government as it's not like they want to make these decisions to keep businesses closed. It's a fine line between locking down the country to reduce Covid cases and yet still keep the economy running on a reasonable level.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 28, 2020, 02:37:22 PM
I have someone on my twitter feed who's a fairly active "non believer" in terms of covid. It's interesting reading the different perspectives. So RTE ran an article either today or yesterday about the steady increase in hospitals from it. The article read 2 in one day(whatever day that was) and 8 in a week. The non believer was incensed at this and replied "really - 2 in a day".  She had some kind of point although interestingly they spun it for the larger number while she spun it for the smaller one.

Yes definitely people are getting a bit peeved with it. It will be nice if or when normality finally resumes in whatever form it takes. Going for a beer and going to watch a football/hurling match are things I very much miss.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on August 28, 2020, 03:30:06 PM
New cases over the past seven days in NI.

Belfast +117
Mid & East Antrim +72
Armagh Banbridge & Craigavon +55
Antrim & Newtownabbey +41
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on August 28, 2020, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 28, 2020, 02:14:41 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on August 28, 2020, 02:09:53 PM
Nearly every GAA club in lurgan has now been hit. House parties seem to have been the main cause of the spread.

At this stage I'd actually go out on a limb and say it's not so much the house parties....its what ahem....goes on at them.

So ya have to be riding to catch the oul Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on August 28, 2020, 03:47:30 PM
Something that is not mentioned frequently enough - Summer was supposed to be the 'easy bit of managing the virus, hard to see things getting significantly better before next Spring (& / or Vaccine).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on August 28, 2020, 03:57:09 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 28, 2020, 03:30:06 PM
New cases over the past seven days in NI.

Belfast +117
Mid & East Antrim +72
Armagh Banbridge & Craigavon +55
Antrim & Newtownabbey +41
Has that Unionist MLA who was querying GAA funding any comment?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 28, 2020, 06:36:40 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 28, 2020, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on August 28, 2020, 02:14:41 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on August 28, 2020, 02:09:53 PM
Nearly every GAA club in lurgan has now been hit. House parties seem to have been the main cause of the spread.

At this stage I'd actually go out on a limb and say it's not so much the house parties....its what ahem....goes on at them.

So ya have to be riding to catch the oul Covid.

I would say that saliva transmission is a much, much bigger factor than anything else.

Certainly the magic floating miles in air theory.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on August 28, 2020, 06:43:05 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 28, 2020, 03:30:06 PM
New cases over the past seven days in NI.

Belfast +117
Mid & East Antrim +72
Armagh Banbridge & Craigavon +55
Antrim & Newtownabbey +41

How many in hospitals and ICU? Schools starting back are going to fairly up the rate of new cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: stvlive on August 28, 2020, 06:46:47 PM
Genetic Game is back after Covid-19. GAA (https://stvlive.co/) All Ireland Senior Championship most of the time starts in June but this year schedule delay and start in October.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 28, 2020, 06:50:53 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 28, 2020, 03:47:30 PM
Something that is not mentioned frequently enough - Summer was supposed to be the 'easy bit of managing the virus, hard to see things getting significantly better before next Spring (& / or Vaccine).

They are not, and people who are acting the bollix now will ensure a complete lockdown at Christmas.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on August 28, 2020, 07:09:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 28, 2020, 06:50:53 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 28, 2020, 03:47:30 PM
Something that is not mentioned frequently enough - Summer was supposed to be the 'easy bit of managing the virus, hard to see things getting significantly better before next Spring (& / or Vaccine).

They are not, and people who are acting the bollix now will ensure a complete lockdown at Christmas.

Wee question for you. If we get over the winter carrying on as we do now - people in every town and village testing positive, but next to nobody dying - would you be happy enough to return to normal then?

Not giving out by the way. Just trying to understand if there's anything could happen pre-vaccine that will  assuage your feeling that Covid is a serious threat to humanity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 28, 2020, 09:06:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 28, 2020, 07:09:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 28, 2020, 06:50:53 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 28, 2020, 03:47:30 PM
Something that is not mentioned frequently enough - Summer was supposed to be the 'easy bit of managing the virus, hard to see things getting significantly better before next Spring (& / or Vaccine).

They are not, and people who are acting the bollix now will ensure a complete lockdown at Christmas.

Wee question for you. If we get over the winter carrying on as we do now - people in every town and village testing positive, but next to nobody dying - would you be happy enough to return to normal then?

Not giving out by the way. Just trying to understand if there's anything could happen pre-vaccine that will  assuage your feeling that Covid is a serious threat to humanity.

This is the usual, with restrictions we can tolerate the situation, so lets get rid of the restrictions.  I thought there was an end to this discredited logic. Now that road accidents are less fatal why don't we get rid of seatbelts, airbags and the like?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Downtothewire on August 28, 2020, 09:48:04 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 28, 2020, 03:30:06 PM
New cases over the past seven days in NI.

Belfast +117
Mid & East Antrim +72
Armagh Banbridge & Craigavon +55
Antrim & Newtownabbey +41

I'll guarantee anyone that if the above numbers had occurred in Newry Mourne & Down or Derry & Strabane these Council areas would be in lockdown by now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on August 28, 2020, 10:43:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 28, 2020, 09:06:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 28, 2020, 07:09:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 28, 2020, 06:50:53 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 28, 2020, 03:47:30 PM
Something that is not mentioned frequently enough - Summer was supposed to be the 'easy bit of managing the virus, hard to see things getting significantly better before next Spring (& / or Vaccine).

They are not, and people who are acting the bollix now will ensure a complete lockdown at Christmas.

Wee question for you. If we get over the winter carrying on as we do now - people in every town and village testing positive, but next to nobody dying - would you be happy enough to return to normal then?

Not giving out by the way. Just trying to understand if there's anything could happen pre-vaccine that will  assuage your feeling that Covid is a serious threat to humanity.

This is the usual, with restrictions we can tolerate the situation, so lets get rid of the restrictions.  I thought there was an end to this discredited logic. Now that road accidents are less fatal why don't we get rid of seatbelts, airbags and the like?

You're evading the question.

——

By the way, from the earliest days of the motorised vehicle there has been an understood risk. The benefits outweigh the negatives, as is easily comprehended by the fact that we will all get in our cars the next day even if an RTC has killed people we know.

Humans are inherently good at measuring risk and adapting to it. It's why we are top of the tree on this planet.

I'm asking you to evaluate at what point the risk is worth taking. For you alone. If it's not waiting for the vaccine, at what point do you personally assume it's okay to resume even a semi normal life?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 28, 2020, 11:24:38 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 28, 2020, 10:43:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 28, 2020, 09:06:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 28, 2020, 07:09:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 28, 2020, 06:50:53 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 28, 2020, 03:47:30 PM
Something that is not mentioned frequently enough - Summer was supposed to be the 'easy bit of managing the virus, hard to see things getting significantly better before next Spring (& / or Vaccine).

They are not, and people who are acting the bollix now will ensure a complete lockdown at Christmas.

Wee question for you. If we get over the winter carrying on as we do now - people in every town and village testing positive, but next to nobody dying - would you be happy enough to return to normal then?

Not giving out by the way. Just trying to understand if there's anything could happen pre-vaccine that will  assuage your feeling that Covid is a serious threat to humanity.

This is the usual, with restrictions we can tolerate the situation, so lets get rid of the restrictions.  I thought there was an end to this discredited logic. Now that road accidents are less fatal why don't we get rid of seatbelts, airbags and the like?

You're evading the question.

——

By the way, from the earliest days of the motorised vehicle there has been an understood risk. The benefits outweigh the negatives, as is easily comprehended by the fact that we will all get in our cars the next day even if an RTC has killed people we know.

Humans are inherently good at measuring risk and adapting to it. It's why we are top of the tree on this planet.

I'm asking you to evaluate at what point the risk is worth taking. For you alone. If it's not waiting for the vaccine, at what point do you personally assume it's okay to resume even a semi normal life?

And measures have been put in place to reduce the risk of motor accidents, which is why i mentioned those in my example. Humans can assess risk, the problem is that in motor accidents and Covid19 the risk you face is not the risk that you impose on others. We do not allow truck drivers say "In a accident between me and a pedestrian I'll be OK, so I am not going to stop at pedestrian crossings" and we have a similar approach to Covid19.

I have no doubt Covid19 will be controlled. There is a high probability of a usable vaccine, there are 36 vaccines in clinical trials on humans and at least 89 preclinical vaccines. There is a good probability of treatment becoming many times as effective, there are testing technologies being developed that would allow everyone be easily tested and this would allow the virus be eliminated. The intersection of these probabilities means that this winter may be a problem, but not next. In the meantime people can do most things, if they carefully calibrate the line.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on August 28, 2020, 11:36:41 PM
i did not think you were talking about sex at house parties but people putting stuff up their nose and exchanging bank notes and other stuff
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on August 28, 2020, 11:41:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 28, 2020, 11:24:38 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 28, 2020, 10:43:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 28, 2020, 09:06:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 28, 2020, 07:09:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 28, 2020, 06:50:53 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 28, 2020, 03:47:30 PM
Something that is not mentioned frequently enough - Summer was supposed to be the 'easy bit of managing the virus, hard to see things getting significantly better before next Spring (& / or Vaccine).

They are not, and people who are acting the bollix now will ensure a complete lockdown at Christmas.

Wee question for you. If we get over the winter carrying on as we do now - people in every town and village testing positive, but next to nobody dying - would you be happy enough to return to normal then?

Not giving out by the way. Just trying to understand if there's anything could happen pre-vaccine that will  assuage your feeling that Covid is a serious threat to humanity.

This is the usual, with restrictions we can tolerate the situation, so lets get rid of the restrictions.  I thought there was an end to this discredited logic. Now that road accidents are less fatal why don't we get rid of seatbelts, airbags and the like?

You're evading the question.

——

By the way, from the earliest days of the motorised vehicle there has been an understood risk. The benefits outweigh the negatives, as is easily comprehended by the fact that we will all get in our cars the next day even if an RTC has killed people we know.

Humans are inherently good at measuring risk and adapting to it. It's why we are top of the tree on this planet.

I'm asking you to evaluate at what point the risk is worth taking. For you alone. If it's not waiting for the vaccine, at what point do you personally assume it's okay to resume even a semi normal life?

And measures have been put in place to reduce the risk of motor accidents, which is why i mentioned those in my example. Humans can assess risk, the problem is that in motor accidents and Covid19 the risk you face is not the risk that you impose on others. We do not allow truck drivers say "In a accident between me and a pedestrian I'll be OK, so I am not going to stop at pedestrian crossings" and we have a similar approach to Covid19.

I have no doubt Covid19 will be controlled. There is a high probability of a usable vaccine, there are 36 vaccines in clinical trials on humans and at least 89 preclinical vaccines. There is a good probability of treatment becoming many times as effective, there are testing technologies being developed that would allow everyone be easily tested and this would allow the virus be eliminated. The intersection of these probabilities means that this winter may be a problem, but not next. In the meantime people can do most things, if they carefully calibrate the line.

Truck drivers have rules to follow. Pedestrians have rules to follow. But the reason why so few trucks run into pedestrians is little to do with those rules, and everything to with eyes, ears and noses.

Give a 10 year old a bike and a few harsh words and he will always avoid a truck.

Humans are inherently good at assessing risk.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 29, 2020, 12:02:46 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 28, 2020, 11:41:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 28, 2020, 11:24:38 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 28, 2020, 10:43:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 28, 2020, 09:06:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 28, 2020, 07:09:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 28, 2020, 06:50:53 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 28, 2020, 03:47:30 PM
Something that is not mentioned frequently enough - Summer was supposed to be the 'easy bit of managing the virus, hard to see things getting significantly better before next Spring (& / or Vaccine).

They are not, and people who are acting the bollix now will ensure a complete lockdown at Christmas.

Wee question for you. If we get over the winter carrying on as we do now - people in every town and village testing positive, but next to nobody dying - would you be happy enough to return to normal then?

Not giving out by the way. Just trying to understand if there's anything could happen pre-vaccine that will  assuage your feeling that Covid is a serious threat to humanity.

This is the usual, with restrictions we can tolerate the situation, so lets get rid of the restrictions.  I thought there was an end to this discredited logic. Now that road accidents are less fatal why don't we get rid of seatbelts, airbags and the like?

You're evading the question.

——

By the way, from the earliest days of the motorised vehicle there has been an understood risk. The benefits outweigh the negatives, as is easily comprehended by the fact that we will all get in our cars the next day even if an RTC has killed people we know.

Humans are inherently good at measuring risk and adapting to it. It's why we are top of the tree on this planet.

I'm asking you to evaluate at what point the risk is worth taking. For you alone. If it's not waiting for the vaccine, at what point do you personally assume it's okay to resume even a semi normal life?

And measures have been put in place to reduce the risk of motor accidents, which is why i mentioned those in my example. Humans can assess risk, the problem is that in motor accidents and Covid19 the risk you face is not the risk that you impose on others. We do not allow truck drivers say "In a accident between me and a pedestrian I'll be OK, so I am not going to stop at pedestrian crossings" and we have a similar approach to Covid19.

I have no doubt Covid19 will be controlled. There is a high probability of a usable vaccine, there are 36 vaccines in clinical trials on humans and at least 89 preclinical vaccines. There is a good probability of treatment becoming many times as effective, there are testing technologies being developed that would allow everyone be easily tested and this would allow the virus be eliminated. The intersection of these probabilities means that this winter may be a problem, but not next. In the meantime people can do most things, if they carefully calibrate the line.

Truck drivers have rules to follow. Pedestrians have rules to follow. But the reason why so few trucks run into pedestrians is little to do with those rules, and everything to with eyes, ears and noses.

Give a 10 year old a bike and a few harsh words and he will always avoid a truck.

Humans are inherently good at assessing risk.

People are assessing the risk to themselves and not the damage they are doing to others.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 29, 2020, 07:24:27 AM
Quote from: hardstation on August 28, 2020, 10:07:19 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on August 28, 2020, 09:48:04 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 28, 2020, 03:30:06 PM
New cases over the past seven days in NI.

Belfast +117
Mid & East Antrim +72
Armagh Banbridge & Craigavon +55
Antrim & Newtownabbey +41

I'll guarantee anyone that if the above numbers had occurred in Newry Mourne & Down or Derry & Strabane these Council areas would be in lockdown by now
How can you guarantee that? What about mid Ulster, how many cases gets them locked down by your lockometer?

(Mid) Ulster Says No! (To Lockdown)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on August 30, 2020, 01:38:39 PM
disgraceful scenes in kilarney last night
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 30, 2020, 03:49:23 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on August 30, 2020, 01:38:39 PM
disgraceful scenes in kilarney last night

What went on?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on August 30, 2020, 03:57:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 30, 2020, 03:49:23 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on August 30, 2020, 01:38:39 PM
disgraceful scenes in kilarney last night

What went on?

50-60 young ones dancing and singing in the street, looks like just after closing time. It used to be called Saturday night, before the thought police managed to poison so many minds.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on August 30, 2020, 04:18:53 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 30, 2020, 03:57:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 30, 2020, 03:49:23 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on August 30, 2020, 01:38:39 PM
disgraceful scenes in kilarney last night

What went on?

50-60 young ones dancing and singing in the street, looks like just after closing time. It used to be called Saturday night, before the thought police managed to poison so many minds.

who are the thought police? what did they do to posion minds?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on August 30, 2020, 04:58:46 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 30, 2020, 03:57:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 30, 2020, 03:49:23 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on August 30, 2020, 01:38:39 PM
disgraceful scenes in kilarney last night

What went on?

50-60 young ones dancing and singing in the street, looks like just after closing time. It used to be called Saturday night, before the thought police managed to poison so many minds.

Closing time of food serving 90 minute sittings pubs?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 30, 2020, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 30, 2020, 03:57:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 30, 2020, 03:49:23 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on August 30, 2020, 01:38:39 PM
disgraceful scenes in kilarney last night

What went on?

50-60 young ones dancing and singing in the street, looks like just after closing time. It used to be called Saturday night, before the thought police managed to poison so many minds.

Before there was a global pandemic, you mean.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 30, 2020, 05:53:43 PM
My weekly update.

Cases in the ROI this week - 807 (75 more than last week)
Deaths - 0 (8 days in a row without a death reported)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on August 30, 2020, 06:12:47 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 30, 2020, 03:57:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 30, 2020, 03:49:23 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on August 30, 2020, 01:38:39 PM
disgraceful scenes in kilarney last night

What went on?

50-60 young ones dancing and singing in the street, looks like just after closing time. It used to be called Saturday night, before the thought police managed to poison so many minds.

You lads should take a drive through Belfast on a Saturday night.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on August 31, 2020, 05:11:33 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 28, 2020, 07:09:06 PM
Wee question for you. If we get over the winter carrying on as we do now - people in every town and village testing positive, but next to nobody dying - would you be happy enough to return to normal then?

Obviously, if lethality drops through the floor, then yes, the balance of economics versus public health will change.

It *would* appear that the admissions rate now per case identified is much lower than, say, April.

Is that due to more extensive testing, or is that due to a mutated virus being less dangerous?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on August 31, 2020, 05:27:58 PM
Quote from: highorlow on August 28, 2020, 09:25:32 AM
Quoteit could be that the woman is working for crap wages  and can't afford to lose a weekend shift. Then thought better about it 2 days later, but up until her son came home from a virus infested shoddy workplace factory, she was probably doing alright.

Read the article again, or maybe don't bother as you are set in your ways, your probably one of those do gooders that also defends the ethnic travelling community when they race their pieballs down the motorway.
Yeah, I read the article and it says nothing about the mother having an english language deficiency or even being a dreaded "foreigner".
But you have confirmed that you're just a racist turd,  which doesn't seem to bother contributors to this thread.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on August 31, 2020, 05:59:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 31, 2020, 05:11:33 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 28, 2020, 07:09:06 PM
Wee question for you. If we get over the winter carrying on as we do now - people in every town and village testing positive, but next to nobody dying - would you be happy enough to return to normal then?

Obviously, if lethality drops through the floor, then yes, the balance of economics versus public health will change.

It *would* appear that the admissions rate now per case identified is much lower than, say, April.

Is that due to more extensive testing, or is that due to a mutated virus being less dangerous?

My cynical self says that the testing is producing false positives.

But it doesn't really matter I suppose. If the admissions curve stays flat, it's a great result.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 31, 2020, 06:03:54 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 31, 2020, 05:11:33 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 28, 2020, 07:09:06 PM
Wee question for you. If we get over the winter carrying on as we do now - people in every town and village testing positive, but next to nobody dying - would you be happy enough to return to normal then?

Obviously, if lethality drops through the floor, then yes, the balance of economics versus public health will change.

It *would* appear that the admissions rate now per case identified is much lower than, say, April.

Is that due to more extensive testing, or is that due to a mutated virus being less dangerous?

Regarding your last paragraph, I imagine both are true. I also believe that the age range being younger is stabilising the amount of deaths too. Whether or not there'll be future repercussions for people who test positive remains to be seen.

Oh and they never seem to tell us about the denoted cases in the news either. Not that there are much but you would wonder about it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on August 31, 2020, 06:21:09 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 31, 2020, 05:59:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 31, 2020, 05:11:33 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 28, 2020, 07:09:06 PM
Wee question for you. If we get over the winter carrying on as we do now - people in every town and village testing positive, but next to nobody dying - would you be happy enough to return to normal then?

Obviously, if lethality drops through the floor, then yes, the balance of economics versus public health will change.

It *would* appear that the admissions rate now per case identified is much lower than, say, April.

Is that due to more extensive testing, or is that due to a mutated virus being less dangerous?

My cynical self says that the testing is producing false positives.

But it doesn't really matter I suppose. If the admissions curve stays flat, it's a great result.

Saw an article over the weekend, Covid fatigue prevented me from reading it all, that testing kits in the US are giving "yes/no" results but in many cases there isn't even enough of the virus in the person to be contagious. I suppose this is the case in a lot of countries

Edit - article link


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 31, 2020, 06:41:29 PM
I have read there will be false positives for people with cold/flu but unsure in the truth on that(social media rumour)..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 31, 2020, 07:13:47 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 31, 2020, 05:11:33 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 28, 2020, 07:09:06 PM
Wee question for you. If we get over the winter carrying on as we do now - people in every town and village testing positive, but next to nobody dying - would you be happy enough to return to normal then?

Obviously, if lethality drops through the floor, then yes, the balance of economics versus public health will change.

It *would* appear that the admissions rate now per case identified is much lower than, say, April.

Is that due to more extensive testing, or is that due to a mutated virus being less dangerous?

It is certainly due to more testing and a younger profile of infected person. Not much real evidence of substantial mutation at this point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on August 31, 2020, 08:31:09 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 31, 2020, 05:59:07 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 31, 2020, 05:11:33 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 28, 2020, 07:09:06 PM
Wee question for you. If we get over the winter carrying on as we do now - people in every town and village testing positive, but next to nobody dying - would you be happy enough to return to normal then?

Obviously, if lethality drops through the floor, then yes, the balance of economics versus public health will change.

It *would* appear that the admissions rate now per case identified is much lower than, say, April.

Is that due to more extensive testing, or is that due to a mutated virus being less dangerous?

My cynical self says that the testing is producing false positives.

But it doesn't really matter I suppose. If the admissions curve stays flat, it's a great result.
Chance of a false positive is relatively low compared to a false negative.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on September 01, 2020, 05:26:49 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/could-ireland-become-the-wayward-child-of-europe-on-covid-response-1.4343216?mode=amp

Ireland, meanwhile, having achieved one of the lowest incidences in Europe in mid-summer, is now struggling to contain fresh outbreaks. So much so that the latest ECDC figures show our figures are higher than both the UK's and Sweden's. (The death rate in Sweden is 60 per cent higher than in Ireland.)

The incidence of the virus in Ireland is also higher than in Italy, Germany, Poland, Denmark, Norway, Greece, Finland, Hungary, Slovakia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Estonia, Iceland, Cyprus and Latvia.

Initially, it was the outbreaks in meat processing plants, as we know. This was the equivalent of lightning hitting the same spot twice, given these environments had suffered outbreaks in the spring.

There was nothing terribly wrong with the odd case occurring in factories. But by the time anyone noticed what was going on, hundreds of staff had become infected, and the wider seeding of the virus in the community was well advanced.

We still don't have rapid testing alternatives, or the promised revamp of the testing system

This needn't have happened. Testing capacity was being under-utilised throughout the summer, so wider testing of workers in the meat processing sector could have been arranged.

And, once again, our testing and contract tracing system was found wanting. Other countries that are experiencing surges at present are handling them better because, in general, they are carrying out more testing and/or doing it faster.

Continuity

The new wave of infections was getting under way as one government left and a new one arrived. Possibly, continuity was broken as new Ministers struggled to learn their briefs.

The outbreaks in meat plants are being brought under control, but the problem has moved on to other areas of life where people congregate. Worryingly, 30 per cent of cases are attributed to community transmission, meaning the source of infection is unknown.

We still don't have rapid testing alternatives, or the promised revamp of the testing system, or even the Government's new framework for dealing with Covid-19 realities over the coming year.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on September 01, 2020, 08:00:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 01, 2020, 05:26:49 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/could-ireland-become-the-wayward-child-of-europe-on-covid-response-1.4343216?mode=amp

Ireland, meanwhile, having achieved one of the lowest incidences in Europe in mid-summer, is now struggling to contain fresh outbreaks. So much so that the latest ECDC figures show our figures are higher than both the UK's and Sweden's. (The death rate in Sweden is 60 per cent higher than in Ireland.)
60% higher than 0 in Ireland in the last week?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 01, 2020, 01:06:02 PM
A class has been sent home from a school in Dublin due to one of the children testing positive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on September 01, 2020, 02:03:22 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 01, 2020, 01:06:02 PM
A class has been sent home from a school in Dublin due to one of the children testing positive.

What age group?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 01, 2020, 02:13:02 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on September 01, 2020, 02:03:22 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 01, 2020, 01:06:02 PM
A class has been sent home from a school in Dublin due to one of the children testing positive.

What age group?

All it said was that it's a primary school.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on September 01, 2020, 02:41:29 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 01, 2020, 01:06:02 PM
A class has been sent home from a school in Dublin due to one of the children testing positive.

Why only a class?
I wouldnt want my kid to stay in the school if Im being honest
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 01, 2020, 02:48:49 PM
Quote from: Taylor on September 01, 2020, 02:41:29 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 01, 2020, 01:06:02 PM
A class has been sent home from a school in Dublin due to one of the children testing positive.

Why only a class?
I wouldnt want my kid to stay in the school if Im being honest

The kids generally stay in one class and now they have one area where they can 'play' and teachers cant use the staff rooms, so if it was in one class, I'd say it would be confined to that area only
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on September 01, 2020, 02:56:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 01, 2020, 02:48:49 PM
Quote from: Taylor on September 01, 2020, 02:41:29 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 01, 2020, 01:06:02 PM
A class has been sent home from a school in Dublin due to one of the children testing positive.

Why only a class?
I wouldnt want my kid to stay in the school if Im being honest

The kids generally stay in one class and now they have one area where they can 'play' and teachers cant use the staff rooms, so if it was in one class, I'd say it would be confined to that area only

A couple of Primary schools in the North now in the same boat (reading through the headlines) with open pupil in one class testing positive (all P2/3). Assuming picked up at home or Holiday as the schools are only back a day.
My own boy is P3 and the class dont interact with any other class and stay within their 'bubble' throughout the day so wouldn't expect the whole school to be closed. His school is quite a large primary school. They still say child-child infection is uncommon but will be keeping my ear to the ground!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on September 01, 2020, 03:22:41 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 01, 2020, 08:00:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 01, 2020, 05:26:49 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/could-ireland-become-the-wayward-child-of-europe-on-covid-response-1.4343216?mode=amp

Ireland, meanwhile, having achieved one of the lowest incidences in Europe in mid-summer, is now struggling to contain fresh outbreaks. So much so that the latest ECDC figures show our figures are higher than both the UK's and Sweden's. (The death rate in Sweden is 60 per cent higher than in Ireland.)
60% higher than 0 in Ireland in the last week?
Where does anyone mention the last week?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on September 01, 2020, 03:42:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on September 01, 2020, 03:22:41 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 01, 2020, 08:00:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 01, 2020, 05:26:49 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/could-ireland-become-the-wayward-child-of-europe-on-covid-response-1.4343216?mode=amp

Ireland, meanwhile, having achieved one of the lowest incidences in Europe in mid-summer, is now struggling to contain fresh outbreaks. So much so that the latest ECDC figures show our figures are higher than both the UK's and Sweden's. (The death rate in Sweden is 60 per cent higher than in Ireland.)
60% higher than 0 in Ireland in the last week?
Where does anyone mention the last week?
No one mentioned any figures.  That's the point.  It is scare mongering to put % figures on death rates when people generally aren't dying of it at the minute.  If there is 1 death in the next week (from or with) and 2 the week after will there be a headline 100% increase in deaths?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on September 01, 2020, 04:08:24 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 01, 2020, 03:42:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on September 01, 2020, 03:22:41 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 01, 2020, 08:00:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 01, 2020, 05:26:49 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/could-ireland-become-the-wayward-child-of-europe-on-covid-response-1.4343216?mode=amp

Ireland, meanwhile, having achieved one of the lowest incidences in Europe in mid-summer, is now struggling to contain fresh outbreaks. So much so that the latest ECDC figures show our figures are higher than both the UK's and Sweden's. (The death rate in Sweden is 60 per cent higher than in Ireland.)
60% higher than 0 in Ireland in the last week?
Where does anyone mention the last week?
No one mentioned any figures.  That's the point.  It is scare mongering to put % figures on death rates when people generally aren't dying of it at the minute.  If there is 1 death in the next week (from or with) and 2 the week after will there be a headline 100% increase in deaths?

Will be plenty of that tonight from journalists when a high number of cases is expected to be reported. A high figure that will include cases from the weekend.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on September 01, 2020, 04:13:43 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on September 01, 2020, 04:08:24 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 01, 2020, 03:42:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on September 01, 2020, 03:22:41 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 01, 2020, 08:00:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 01, 2020, 05:26:49 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/could-ireland-become-the-wayward-child-of-europe-on-covid-response-1.4343216?mode=amp

Ireland, meanwhile, having achieved one of the lowest incidences in Europe in mid-summer, is now struggling to contain fresh outbreaks. So much so that the latest ECDC figures show our figures are higher than both the UK's and Sweden's. (The death rate in Sweden is 60 per cent higher than in Ireland.)
60% higher than 0 in Ireland in the last week?
Where does anyone mention the last week?
No one mentioned any figures.  That's the point.  It is scare mongering to put % figures on death rates when people generally aren't dying of it at the minute.  If there is 1 death in the next week (from or with) and 2 the week after will there be a headline 100% increase in deaths?

Will be plenty of that tonight from journalists when a high number of cases is expected to be reported. A high figure that will include cases from the weekend.
Fair enough.  I'd like to see an article like above to at least mention that the number of deaths at the minute is low.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on September 01, 2020, 04:22:43 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 01, 2020, 04:13:43 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on September 01, 2020, 04:08:24 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 01, 2020, 03:42:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on September 01, 2020, 03:22:41 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on September 01, 2020, 08:00:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 01, 2020, 05:26:49 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/could-ireland-become-the-wayward-child-of-europe-on-covid-response-1.4343216?mode=amp

Ireland, meanwhile, having achieved one of the lowest incidences in Europe in mid-summer, is now struggling to contain fresh outbreaks. So much so that the latest ECDC figures show our figures are higher than both the UK’s and Sweden’s. (The death rate in Sweden is 60 per cent higher than in Ireland.)
60% higher than 0 in Ireland in the last week?
Where does anyone mention the last week?
No one mentioned any figures.  That's the point.  It is scare mongering to put % figures on death rates when people generally aren't dying of it at the minute.  If there is 1 death in the next week (from or with) and 2 the week after will there be a headline 100% increase in deaths?

Will be plenty of that tonight from journalists when a high number of cases is expected to be reported. A high figure that will include cases from the weekend.
Fair enough.  I'd like to see an article like above to at least mention that the number of deaths at the minute is low.

Will be a while waiting for that. For the record if zero deaths are reported tonight it will be 10 days in a row without a death.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 01, 2020, 04:25:28 PM
I think in general people are starting to get peeved with the negativity and scaremongering in the reporting here. Even small numbers of increases in hospitals are causing hysterical headlines. Granted we don't want any more in hospital at all and need to stop the exponential growth but to suggest that 8 in a week has the whole country f**ked is a touch overboard to say the least.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tintin25 on September 01, 2020, 04:40:41 PM
I'm all for the scaremongering if it delays my return back to the office  :D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 01, 2020, 04:45:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 01, 2020, 04:25:28 PM
I think in general people are starting to get peeved with the negativity and scaremongering in the reporting here. Even small numbers of increases in hospitals are causing hysterical headlines. Granted we don't want any more in hospital at all and need to stop the exponential growth but to suggest that 8 in a week has the whole country f**ked is a touch overboard to say the least.

Most journalists wholly innumerate in general and much of their readership is even worse, hence the crap reporting.
The situation is not in a crisis, but growing numbers each week and an R > 1 make it problematic down the line. Remember that hospitalisation and deaths grew for a full month after lockdown in March, this thing is like driving an ship, you cannot slam on the brakes. They probably reckon that schools and especially universities opening will inevitably boost the figures and so didn't want things to be already growing before these opened. Some people do not want this detail and can only be reached by headlines.
And in this country hospitals were always flat out in winter anyway, it is easy to say that you are only adding just a few more but that is the few that puts things over the top.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on September 01, 2020, 05:07:39 PM
https://otd.harvard.edu/explore-innovation/technologies/rapid-point-of-care-covid-19-detection-assay-by-rt-lamp
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 01, 2020, 05:36:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 01, 2020, 05:07:39 PM
https://otd.harvard.edu/explore-innovation/technologies/rapid-point-of-care-covid-19-detection-assay-by-rt-lamp

Great. Simple testing could be a solution to this. Setup this kit in hotels, airports, universities etc and test everyone. If you tested everyone a few times then you could more or less exterminate this virus without a vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on September 01, 2020, 06:00:16 PM
217 cases in the 26 Counties today
49 in the 6 Cos
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 01, 2020, 06:31:24 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 01, 2020, 06:00:16 PM
217 cases in the 26 Counties today
49 in the 6 Cos

Lockdown 2 on the way? At least there are no deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 01, 2020, 06:40:51 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 01, 2020, 06:31:24 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 01, 2020, 06:00:16 PM
217 cases in the 26 Counties today
49 in the 6 Cos

Lockdown 2 on the way? At least there are no deaths.

No, its a midweek thing, the 5 day average hasn't risen much.
However, people should remember there were days when we had 6 or 7 cases, things have slipped a lot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on September 01, 2020, 06:51:35 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 01, 2020, 06:31:24 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 01, 2020, 06:00:16 PM
217 cases in the 26 Counties today
49 in the 6 Cos

Lockdown 2 on the way? At least there are no deaths.

As I said earlier the high figure today includes cases from the weekend. The seven day average is the same as last Wednesday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on September 01, 2020, 07:11:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 01, 2020, 05:36:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 01, 2020, 05:07:39 PM
https://otd.harvard.edu/explore-innovation/technologies/rapid-point-of-care-covid-19-detection-assay-by-rt-lamp

Great. Simple testing could be a solution to this. Setup this kit in hotels, airports, universities etc and test everyone. If you tested everyone a few times then you could more or less exterminate this virus without a vaccine.



https://www.ft.com/content/d0781aca-06a4-4b6d-a738-14117397ff78
   A cheap, simple way to control this pandemic exists
It is not a 'moonshot' — RT-LAMP mass tests could curb the global spread of viruses
JULIAN PETO


The writer is an English statistician and epidemiologist at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine

Four years ago, an international committee convened by the US National Academy of Medicine warned of the global threat of a new virus. It identified the threat potential of new coronaviruses and highlighted the relatively trivial costs of preventing pandemics — especially compared to, say, spending on defence or financial stability.

Since then, Covid-19 has amply demonstrated the catastrophic effects of a virus with relatively low mortality rates. The next virus may be far more deadly. A method that achieved rapid and effective control of today's pandemic would also provide the framework for dealing with the next one. But how?

As Covid-19 has shown, developing new vaccines and treatments takes time. As it has also shown, that leaves mass testing and contact tracing as the best way to control a pandemic and avoid the disastrous effects of lockdown.

The idea that weekly testing of whole populations can reduce transmission so that normal life can continue has been endorsed by leading epidemiologists and Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Romer. Yet it has been largely ignored. In the UK, Matt Hancock, the health minister, has called Britain's long-term aim of making tests available to everyone a "moonshot". More dramatically in the US, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recently downgraded its guidelines so that only people with symptoms are tested.

This is despite the fact that a cheap, effective and non-patented technology for testing is available to be rolled out quickly, even in rural settings in the developing world. RT-LAMP (reverse transcriptase loop amplification), as it is called, does not require expensive equipment. Crucially, testing can be done using self-taken saliva samples. That simplicity is important as it makes the logistics of administering and monitoring regular testing feasible. It is also unlike the latest commercial rapid test, Abbott's BinaxNOW, which requires a nasal swab administered by a health professional and analysis within an hour. These are major obstacles to testing whole populations regularly.

Taking the UK as an example, local biotech companies could supply the needed RT-LAMP reagents for less than £1 per test. This ease of technology and low cost means that scaling up to the 10m daily tests needed to conduct weekly testing of the entire British population could be achieved quicker than via the various commercial systems currently being studied by the government.

To be clear, this is not a diagnostic test to determine the need for clinical treatment. Optimised RT-LAMP tests have a sensitivity of over 97 per cent, but even a single-step test has 85 to 90 per cent sensitivity — enough to control the epidemic. People who do test positive (around 1 in 2,000 are now infectious in the UK) would quarantine with their households only after taking a high-tech test to remove false positives. 



This approach to mass testing should be deployed as the northern hemisphere winter approaches, when many fear a second wave. All travellers from abroad should also be tested — a vast improvement on the UK's current ad hoc approach of country quarantines.

Just as significant, if testing arrangements are established now they could be reinstated rapidly to prevent future pandemics, which may well prove more lethal. There would be strong international and charitable support for the World Health Organization to organise that immediately. The technology is such that in developing countries, tests can be analysed in a pan of warm water using a thermometer to keep the temperature at about 63C. The colour change that indicates a positive result is visible by eye. It is that simple.

Arrangements for universal weekly testing should be set up now to deal better with this pandemic, and to prepare for the next one while public concern is high and before it is too late — again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 01, 2020, 08:45:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 01, 2020, 04:45:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 01, 2020, 04:25:28 PM
I think in general people are starting to get peeved with the negativity and scaremongering in the reporting here. Even small numbers of increases in hospitals are causing hysterical headlines. Granted we don't want any more in hospital at all and need to stop the exponential growth but to suggest that 8 in a week has the whole country f**ked is a touch overboard to say the least.

Most journalists wholly innumerate in general and much of their readership is even worse, hence the crap reporting.
The situation is not in a crisis, but growing numbers each week and an R > 1 make it problematic down the line. Remember that hospitalisation and deaths grew for a full month after lockdown in March, this thing is like driving an ship, you cannot slam on the brakes. They probably reckon that schools and especially universities opening will inevitably boost the figures and so didn't want things to be already growing before these opened. Some people do not want this detail and can only be reached by headlines.
And in this country hospitals were always flat out in winter anyway, it is easy to say that you are only adding just a few more but that is the few that puts things over the top.

No it's not in crisis at present but it is portrayed all the time as being one.

Yeah health service north and south are fragile so imperative we do what we can to not overload but too much scaremongering not the answer. I guess it's just very difficult to find that balance but the media is something it is just very hard to have much faith in these days.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 01, 2020, 10:42:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 01, 2020, 08:45:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 01, 2020, 04:45:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 01, 2020, 04:25:28 PM
I think in general people are starting to get peeved with the negativity and scaremongering in the reporting here. Even small numbers of increases in hospitals are causing hysterical headlines. Granted we don't want any more in hospital at all and need to stop the exponential growth but to suggest that 8 in a week has the whole country f**ked is a touch overboard to say the least.

Most journalists wholly innumerate in general and much of their readership is even worse, hence the crap reporting.
The situation is not in a crisis, but growing numbers each week and an R > 1 make it problematic down the line. Remember that hospitalisation and deaths grew for a full month after lockdown in March, this thing is like driving an ship, you cannot slam on the brakes. They probably reckon that schools and especially universities opening will inevitably boost the figures and so didn't want things to be already growing before these opened. Some people do not want this detail and can only be reached by headlines.
And in this country hospitals were always flat out in winter anyway, it is easy to say that you are only adding just a few more but that is the few that puts things over the top.

No it's not in crisis at present but it is portrayed all the time as being one.

Yeah health service north and south are fragile so imperative we do what we can to not overload but too much scaremongering not the answer. I guess it's just very difficult to find that balance but the media is something it is just very hard to have much faith in these days.

206 people on trolleys in the 26 counties today, on the 1st of September. And increasing Covid19 numbers means that the next change in restriction is likely to be more not less.
The media are not good on a subtle point, and neither are the public. How many comments do you see something like "how does having a pizza stop Covid", which ignores that fact that there is no doubt that on aggregate restaurants are safer than pubs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 02, 2020, 10:39:05 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 01, 2020, 10:42:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 01, 2020, 08:45:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 01, 2020, 04:45:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 01, 2020, 04:25:28 PM
I think in general people are starting to get peeved with the negativity and scaremongering in the reporting here. Even small numbers of increases in hospitals are causing hysterical headlines. Granted we don't want any more in hospital at all and need to stop the exponential growth but to suggest that 8 in a week has the whole country f**ked is a touch overboard to say the least.

Most journalists wholly innumerate in general and much of their readership is even worse, hence the crap reporting.
The situation is not in a crisis, but growing numbers each week and an R > 1 make it problematic down the line. Remember that hospitalisation and deaths grew for a full month after lockdown in March, this thing is like driving an ship, you cannot slam on the brakes. They probably reckon that schools and especially universities opening will inevitably boost the figures and so didn't want things to be already growing before these opened. Some people do not want this detail and can only be reached by headlines.
And in this country hospitals were always flat out in winter anyway, it is easy to say that you are only adding just a few more but that is the few that puts things over the top.

No it's not in crisis at present but it is portrayed all the time as being one.

Yeah health service north and south are fragile so imperative we do what we can to not overload but too much scaremongering not the answer. I guess it's just very difficult to find that balance but the media is something it is just very hard to have much faith in these days.

206 people on trolleys in the 26 counties today, on the 1st of September. And increasing Covid19 numbers means that the next change in restriction is likely to be more not less.
The media are not good on a subtle point, and neither are the public. How many comments do you see something like "how does having a pizza stop Covid", which ignores that fact that there is no doubt that on aggregate restaurants are safer than pubs.

I would say that is more exasperation at the ridiculous byways and rules that have popped up recently as opposed to the scientific facts in fairness.

So one I experienced this morning, timeslot to leave the child to school....lady left the kid in slightly early as she had to be in a different town 10 mins later for 0900 start. Think she was 5 mins early for her allocated slot.

Headteacher comes out and reads the riot act. That is not common sense. This is the kind of thing that turns people against these recommendations/rules etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on September 02, 2020, 10:52:56 AM
The amount of people I now meet who couldn't give a flying fudge about Covid is frightening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on September 02, 2020, 11:02:02 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on September 02, 2020, 10:52:56 AM
The amount of people I now meet who couldn't give a flying fudge about Covid is frightening.

Or reassuring.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on September 02, 2020, 11:13:59 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 02, 2020, 10:39:05 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 01, 2020, 10:42:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 01, 2020, 08:45:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 01, 2020, 04:45:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 01, 2020, 04:25:28 PM
I think in general people are starting to get peeved with the negativity and scaremongering in the reporting here. Even small numbers of increases in hospitals are causing hysterical headlines. Granted we don't want any more in hospital at all and need to stop the exponential growth but to suggest that 8 in a week has the whole country f**ked is a touch overboard to say the least.

Most journalists wholly innumerate in general and much of their readership is even worse, hence the crap reporting.
The situation is not in a crisis, but growing numbers each week and an R > 1 make it problematic down the line. Remember that hospitalisation and deaths grew for a full month after lockdown in March, this thing is like driving an ship, you cannot slam on the brakes. They probably reckon that schools and especially universities opening will inevitably boost the figures and so didn't want things to be already growing before these opened. Some people do not want this detail and can only be reached by headlines.
And in this country hospitals were always flat out in winter anyway, it is easy to say that you are only adding just a few more but that is the few that puts things over the top.

No it's not in crisis at present but it is portrayed all the time as being one.

Yeah health service north and south are fragile so imperative we do what we can to not overload but too much scaremongering not the answer. I guess it's just very difficult to find that balance but the media is something it is just very hard to have much faith in these days.

206 people on trolleys in the 26 counties today, on the 1st of September. And increasing Covid19 numbers means that the next change in restriction is likely to be more not less.
The media are not good on a subtle point, and neither are the public. How many comments do you see something like "how does having a pizza stop Covid", which ignores that fact that there is no doubt that on aggregate restaurants are safer than pubs.

I would say that is more exasperation at the ridiculous byways and rules that have popped up recently as opposed to the scientific facts in fairness.

So one I experienced this morning, timeslot to leave the child to school....lady left the kid in slightly early as she had to be in a different town 10 mins later for 0900 start. Think she was 5 mins early for her allocated slot.

Headteacher comes out and reads the riot act. That is not common sense. This is the kind of thing that turns people against these recommendations/rules etc.

I'm assuming this lady knew the rules and had adequate time to make alternative arrangements, so why couldn't she just start 10mins later which would have been the sensible thing?

Head teacher right in this case, the guidelines and rules need to be applied equally and fairly for everyone without exception, otherwise every parent will be taking this piss or grumbling about exceptions being made.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 11:23:28 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on September 02, 2020, 10:52:56 AM
The amount of people I now meet who couldn't give a flying fudge about Covid is frightening.
It's a product of the framework of right-wing, divide and conquer rhetoric which dominates discourse and which we sadly all exist in

We've been told for decades that any sort of social solidarity is bad, and that we should be good little "individuals", who should only "rationally" maximise our own personal utility

Trade unions are vilified, people on welfare are denigrated as "spongers", collective protest on things like the climate crisis and housing are consistently ridiculed while far right narratives are amplified and given a respect they are not remotely due, society is artificially divided up into neat little sections which right-wing media constantly play off against each other in order to create anger and division, and to stifle opposition


Therefore it's not surprising that many people don't give a toss about others

It's the way they've been trained
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 02, 2020, 11:25:03 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on September 02, 2020, 11:13:59 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 02, 2020, 10:39:05 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 01, 2020, 10:42:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 01, 2020, 08:45:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 01, 2020, 04:45:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 01, 2020, 04:25:28 PM
I think in general people are starting to get peeved with the negativity and scaremongering in the reporting here. Even small numbers of increases in hospitals are causing hysterical headlines. Granted we don't want any more in hospital at all and need to stop the exponential growth but to suggest that 8 in a week has the whole country f**ked is a touch overboard to say the least.

Most journalists wholly innumerate in general and much of their readership is even worse, hence the crap reporting.
The situation is not in a crisis, but growing numbers each week and an R > 1 make it problematic down the line. Remember that hospitalisation and deaths grew for a full month after lockdown in March, this thing is like driving an ship, you cannot slam on the brakes. They probably reckon that schools and especially universities opening will inevitably boost the figures and so didn't want things to be already growing before these opened. Some people do not want this detail and can only be reached by headlines.
And in this country hospitals were always flat out in winter anyway, it is easy to say that you are only adding just a few more but that is the few that puts things over the top.

No it's not in crisis at present but it is portrayed all the time as being one.

Yeah health service north and south are fragile so imperative we do what we can to not overload but too much scaremongering not the answer. I guess it's just very difficult to find that balance but the media is something it is just very hard to have much faith in these days.

206 people on trolleys in the 26 counties today, on the 1st of September. And increasing Covid19 numbers means that the next change in restriction is likely to be more not less.
The media are not good on a subtle point, and neither are the public. How many comments do you see something like "how does having a pizza stop Covid", which ignores that fact that there is no doubt that on aggregate restaurants are safer than pubs.

I would say that is more exasperation at the ridiculous byways and rules that have popped up recently as opposed to the scientific facts in fairness.

So one I experienced this morning, timeslot to leave the child to school....lady left the kid in slightly early as she had to be in a different town 10 mins later for 0900 start. Think she was 5 mins early for her allocated slot.

Headteacher comes out and reads the riot act. That is not common sense. This is the kind of thing that turns people against these recommendations/rules etc.

I'm assuming this lady knew the rules and had adequate time to make alternative arrangements, so why couldn't she just start 10mins later which would have been the sensible thing?

Head teacher right in this case, the guidelines and rules need to be applied equally and fairly for everyone without exception, otherwise every parent will be taking this piss or grumbling about exceptions being made.

Sorry but that is nonsense. Not everyone has the ability to change things or goodwill of their employers no matter how much notice they have due to their individual circumstances.

Common sense should prevail in every instance here. Everyone is trying their best in an imperfect situation but to give off stink about dropping a child off 5 mins early? So basically, and this is my original point, she now just leaves the child 5 mins early to school and has her stand round the corner until her slot. God forbid...but can you imagine if something happened in that instance?

Furthermore, the children were all standing outside in the pouring rain until they were signed in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 02, 2020, 11:29:33 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 11:23:28 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on September 02, 2020, 10:52:56 AM
The amount of people I now meet who couldn't give a flying fudge about Covid is frightening.
It's a product of the framework of right-wing, divide and conquer rhetoric which dominates discourse and which we sadly all exist in

We've been told for decades that any sort of social solidarity is bad, and that we should be good little "individuals", who should only "rationally" maximise our own personal utility

Trade unions are vilified, people on welfare are denigrated as "spongers", collective protest on things like the climate crisis and housing are consistently ridiculed while far right narratives are amplified and given a respect they are not remotely due, society is artificially divided up into neat little sections which right-wing media constantly play off against each other in order to create anger and division, and to stifle opposition


Therefore it's not surprising that many people don't give a toss about others

It's the way they've been trained

You're overthinking this. It's because of the I'm alright jack mentality.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 02, 2020, 11:35:00 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 02, 2020, 11:29:33 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 11:23:28 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on September 02, 2020, 10:52:56 AM
The amount of people I now meet who couldn't give a flying fudge about Covid is frightening.
It's a product of the framework of right-wing, divide and conquer rhetoric which dominates discourse and which we sadly all exist in

We've been told for decades that any sort of social solidarity is bad, and that we should be good little "individuals", who should only "rationally" maximise our own personal utility

Trade unions are vilified, people on welfare are denigrated as "spongers", collective protest on things like the climate crisis and housing are consistently ridiculed while far right narratives are amplified and given a respect they are not remotely due, society is artificially divided up into neat little sections which right-wing media constantly play off against each other in order to create anger and division, and to stifle opposition


Therefore it's not surprising that many people don't give a toss about others

It's the way they've been trained

You're overthinking this. It's because of the I'm alright jack mentality.

Absolutely. Its a self entitlement issue and affects all sides unfortunately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 11:41:35 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 02, 2020, 11:29:33 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 11:23:28 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on September 02, 2020, 10:52:56 AM
The amount of people I now meet who couldn't give a flying fudge about Covid is frightening.
It's a product of the framework of right-wing, divide and conquer rhetoric which dominates discourse and which we sadly all exist in

We've been told for decades that any sort of social solidarity is bad, and that we should be good little "individuals", who should only "rationally" maximise our own personal utility

Trade unions are vilified, people on welfare are denigrated as "spongers", collective protest on things like the climate crisis and housing are consistently ridiculed while far right narratives are amplified and given a respect they are not remotely due, society is artificially divided up into neat little sections which right-wing media constantly play off against each other in order to create anger and division, and to stifle opposition


Therefore it's not surprising that many people don't give a toss about others

It's the way they've been trained

You're overthinking this. It's because of the I'm alright jack mentality.
The I'm Alright, Jack mentality is a product of right wing, divide and conquer rhetoric

The logical corollary of the I'm Alright, Jack mentality is the "why should I accept any inconvenience for the good of society?" mentality
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 02, 2020, 11:47:07 AM
Or people are in general just selfish?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on September 02, 2020, 12:25:01 PM
Oddly enough, lockdown, cuts to public services and spikes in unemployment and business closures hurt the jobless and the vulnerable far more than they do the rich and powerful.

But selfishness, self-entitlement and far-right narratives.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on September 02, 2020, 12:40:09 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 02, 2020, 11:25:03 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on September 02, 2020, 11:13:59 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 02, 2020, 10:39:05 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 01, 2020, 10:42:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 01, 2020, 08:45:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 01, 2020, 04:45:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 01, 2020, 04:25:28 PM
I think in general people are starting to get peeved with the negativity and scaremongering in the reporting here. Even small numbers of increases in hospitals are causing hysterical headlines. Granted we don't want any more in hospital at all and need to stop the exponential growth but to suggest that 8 in a week has the whole country f**ked is a touch overboard to say the least.

Most journalists wholly innumerate in general and much of their readership is even worse, hence the crap reporting.
The situation is not in a crisis, but growing numbers each week and an R > 1 make it problematic down the line. Remember that hospitalisation and deaths grew for a full month after lockdown in March, this thing is like driving an ship, you cannot slam on the brakes. They probably reckon that schools and especially universities opening will inevitably boost the figures and so didn't want things to be already growing before these opened. Some people do not want this detail and can only be reached by headlines.
And in this country hospitals were always flat out in winter anyway, it is easy to say that you are only adding just a few more but that is the few that puts things over the top.

No it's not in crisis at present but it is portrayed all the time as being one.

Yeah health service north and south are fragile so imperative we do what we can to not overload but too much scaremongering not the answer. I guess it's just very difficult to find that balance but the media is something it is just very hard to have much faith in these days.

206 people on trolleys in the 26 counties today, on the 1st of September. And increasing Covid19 numbers means that the next change in restriction is likely to be more not less.
The media are not good on a subtle point, and neither are the public. How many comments do you see something like "how does having a pizza stop Covid", which ignores that fact that there is no doubt that on aggregate restaurants are safer than pubs.

I would say that is more exasperation at the ridiculous byways and rules that have popped up recently as opposed to the scientific facts in fairness.

So one I experienced this morning, timeslot to leave the child to school....lady left the kid in slightly early as she had to be in a different town 10 mins later for 0900 start. Think she was 5 mins early for her allocated slot.

Headteacher comes out and reads the riot act. That is not common sense. This is the kind of thing that turns people against these recommendations/rules etc.

I'm assuming this lady knew the rules and had adequate time to make alternative arrangements, so why couldn't she just start 10mins later which would have been the sensible thing?

Head teacher right in this case, the guidelines and rules need to be applied equally and fairly for everyone without exception, otherwise every parent will be taking this piss or grumbling about exceptions being made.

Sorry but that is nonsense. Not everyone has the ability to change things or goodwill of their employers no matter how much notice they have due to their individual circumstances.

Common sense should prevail in every instance here. Everyone is trying their best in an imperfect situation but to give off stink about dropping a child off 5 mins early? So basically, and this is my original point, she now just leaves the child 5 mins early to school and has her stand round the corner until her slot. God forbid...but can you imagine if something happened in that instance?

Furthermore, the children were all standing outside in the pouring rain until they were signed in.

It isn't nonsense, the head teacher or schools don't set the rules/guidelines. It is an imperfect situation for everyone but if common sense was applied then your employer lets you start work 10 mins later (or you make alternative arraignments) and not put the school in that situation. I feel for the head teacher in this case as if they let this woman just rock up and do something different, the bitching and grumbling will be unbearable from other parents. It harsh on the lady but she knew the rules and I suspect an example was made of her.

Further it is her (or her partner's) responsibility to ensure that child makes it to school safely at the designated time. If that woman chooses to leave he child alone around a corner and something happens to them, that is with her and her alone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 12:42:56 PM
Quote from: five points on September 02, 2020, 12:25:01 PM
Oddly enough, lockdown, cuts to public services and spikes in unemployment and business closures hurt the jobless and the vulnerable far more than they do the rich and powerful.

But selfishness, self-entitlement and far-right narratives.
This here is the guy who wanted everything to carry on as normal

The guy whose whole mindset was to pretend that the pandemic didn't exist

La la land stuff
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 02, 2020, 12:50:57 PM
Oh look, Sid is back. And one again, he's not answering questions or engaging in conversation. That would only get in the way of his attempt to include  "fascism" and "right wing" in every thread on every message board in the world.

Definitely a robot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on September 02, 2020, 12:55:48 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 02, 2020, 12:50:57 PM
Oh look, Sid is back. And one again, he's not answering questions or engaging in conversation. That would only get in the way of his attempt to include  "fascism" and "right wing" in every thread on every message board in the world.

Definitely a robot.

Hard to know if he's hard left or loony left, best ignored. Pretending he cares is a good one though, constant hate speech & bottomless bile.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 02, 2020, 01:15:04 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on September 02, 2020, 12:40:09 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 02, 2020, 11:25:03 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on September 02, 2020, 11:13:59 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 02, 2020, 10:39:05 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 01, 2020, 10:42:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 01, 2020, 08:45:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 01, 2020, 04:45:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 01, 2020, 04:25:28 PM
I think in general people are starting to get peeved with the negativity and scaremongering in the reporting here. Even small numbers of increases in hospitals are causing hysterical headlines. Granted we don't want any more in hospital at all and need to stop the exponential growth but to suggest that 8 in a week has the whole country f**ked is a touch overboard to say the least.

Most journalists wholly innumerate in general and much of their readership is even worse, hence the crap reporting.
The situation is not in a crisis, but growing numbers each week and an R > 1 make it problematic down the line. Remember that hospitalisation and deaths grew for a full month after lockdown in March, this thing is like driving an ship, you cannot slam on the brakes. They probably reckon that schools and especially universities opening will inevitably boost the figures and so didn't want things to be already growing before these opened. Some people do not want this detail and can only be reached by headlines.
And in this country hospitals were always flat out in winter anyway, it is easy to say that you are only adding just a few more but that is the few that puts things over the top.

No it's not in crisis at present but it is portrayed all the time as being one.

Yeah health service north and south are fragile so imperative we do what we can to not overload but too much scaremongering not the answer. I guess it's just very difficult to find that balance but the media is something it is just very hard to have much faith in these days.

206 people on trolleys in the 26 counties today, on the 1st of September. And increasing Covid19 numbers means that the next change in restriction is likely to be more not less.
The media are not good on a subtle point, and neither are the public. How many comments do you see something like "how does having a pizza stop Covid", which ignores that fact that there is no doubt that on aggregate restaurants are safer than pubs.

I would say that is more exasperation at the ridiculous byways and rules that have popped up recently as opposed to the scientific facts in fairness.

So one I experienced this morning, timeslot to leave the child to school....lady left the kid in slightly early as she had to be in a different town 10 mins later for 0900 start. Think she was 5 mins early for her allocated slot.

Headteacher comes out and reads the riot act. That is not common sense. This is the kind of thing that turns people against these recommendations/rules etc.

I'm assuming this lady knew the rules and had adequate time to make alternative arrangements, so why couldn't she just start 10mins later which would have been the sensible thing?

Head teacher right in this case, the guidelines and rules need to be applied equally and fairly for everyone without exception, otherwise every parent will be taking this piss or grumbling about exceptions being made.

Sorry but that is nonsense. Not everyone has the ability to change things or goodwill of their employers no matter how much notice they have due to their individual circumstances.

Common sense should prevail in every instance here. Everyone is trying their best in an imperfect situation but to give off stink about dropping a child off 5 mins early? So basically, and this is my original point, she now just leaves the child 5 mins early to school and has her stand round the corner until her slot. God forbid...but can you imagine if something happened in that instance?

Furthermore, the children were all standing outside in the pouring rain until they were signed in.

It isn't nonsense, the head teacher or schools don't set the rules/guidelines. It is an imperfect situation for everyone but if common sense was applied then your employer lets you start work 10 mins later (or you make alternative arraignments) and not put the school in that situation. I feel for the head teacher in this case as if they let this woman just rock up and do something different, the bitching and grumbling will be unbearable from other parents. It harsh on the lady but she knew the rules and I suspect an example was made of her.

Further it is her (or her partner's) responsibility to ensure that child makes it to school safely at the designated time. If that woman chooses to leave he child alone around a corner and something happens to them, that is with her and her alone.

Single parent? Then what? So you see it's not ideal for all....as it never would be. I mean it's not my own circumstances so I can profess to know the ins and outs but you must admit that not everyone can rigidly adhere to a set slot for school drops v trying to make a living in this mess?

I get your points, but to me this is just another example of nonsensical policy brought in so there can be no blow back legally to certain institutions, rather than actual, helpful guidelines. This is the type of thing that turns people against the policies and I think will contribute to an even greater full of disobedience going forward (should things stay as is).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 02, 2020, 02:38:50 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 02, 2020, 12:50:57 PM
Oh look, Sid is back. And one again, he's not answering questions or engaging in conversation. That would only get in the way of his attempt to include  "fascism" and "right wing" in every thread on every message board in the world.

Definitely a robot.
Oh look, the forum's biggest thundering gobshite is back

A tough morning spent looking at Spiked Online or Guido Fawkes for blowhard gobshitery to copy and paste, no doubt


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on September 02, 2020, 02:53:20 PM
71 new cases in Northern Ireland, 2 deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on September 02, 2020, 02:58:00 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on September 02, 2020, 02:53:20 PM
71 new cases in Northern Ireland, 2 deaths.

Are those deaths linked to the cancer patients in Craigavon?

When I heard cancer patients caught it I was expecting more deaths
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on September 02, 2020, 04:27:47 PM
Many schools effected yet?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on September 02, 2020, 04:38:01 PM
Quote from: Taylor on September 02, 2020, 02:58:00 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on September 02, 2020, 02:53:20 PM
71 new cases in Northern Ireland, 2 deaths.

Are those deaths linked to the cancer patients in Craigavon?

When I heard cancer patients caught it I was expecting more deaths

Don't know, location of deaths not reported yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on September 02, 2020, 04:54:49 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on September 02, 2020, 04:38:01 PM
Quote from: Taylor on September 02, 2020, 02:58:00 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on September 02, 2020, 02:53:20 PM
71 new cases in Northern Ireland, 2 deaths.

Are those deaths linked to the cancer patients in Craigavon?

When I heard cancer patients caught it I was expecting more deaths


Don't know, location of deaths not reported yet.

Health department data shows the deaths on Wednesday were of a man and woman aged over 80.
The man from the Mid and East Antrim council area died on September 1 in hospital, while the woman passed away in a care home in Co Down on August 28. There can often be a delay in registering deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 02, 2020, 06:53:23 PM
A first reported death in the ROI for 11 days. Death happened in June. Of the 14 reported deaths in August 4 of them happened in August.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on September 02, 2020, 08:52:37 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on September 02, 2020, 02:53:20 PM
71 new cases in Northern Ireland, 2 deaths.

They need to start reporting on when the deaths were diagnosed with the virus. (among many, many other pieces of information they need to report!)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 02, 2020, 09:14:14 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 02, 2020, 08:52:37 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on September 02, 2020, 02:53:20 PM
71 new cases in Northern Ireland, 2 deaths.

They need to start reporting on when the deaths were diagnosed with the virus. (among many, many other pieces of information they need to report!)

Absolutely this. Many things lacking.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 02, 2020, 09:24:29 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 02, 2020, 09:14:14 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 02, 2020, 08:52:37 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on September 02, 2020, 02:53:20 PM
71 new cases in Northern Ireland, 2 deaths.

They need to start reporting on when the deaths were diagnosed with the virus. (among many, many other pieces of information they need to report!)

Absolutely this. Many things lacking.

Absolutely, report of death for public health purposes needs to be separated from the legal aspect of it,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: andoireabu on September 03, 2020, 08:55:15 AM
What is the idea behind reporting a death from Jun in August.  Does it not skew the June figures favourably and the August figures unfavourably?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 03, 2020, 08:57:23 AM
Also why does it take that long? (I'm sure there are perfectly valid reasons but I just don't know what they are)

When they report that death they don't tend to report it from two months ago and it makes it sound like it's recent which it's not and I find that is a bit misleading.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 03, 2020, 09:18:28 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 03, 2020, 08:57:23 AM
Also why does it take that long? (I'm sure there are perfectly valid reasons but I just don't know what they are)

When they report that death they don't tend to report it from two months ago and it makes it sound like it's recent which it's not and I find that is a bit misleading.

Could be something as simple as not being sent to National Office of Statistics or just not being logged that side due to home working still being promoted in public sector. I suspect these are care home deaths and they just don't bother sending the details until they are good and ready.

Covid Deaths aren't investigated in any way, i.e. Port Mortem so when someone dies and it is labelled 'Covid' related (not necessarily why they died), it should be logged within days - depending on how good the hospital / GP is with paperwork.  There should be no delay from the public sector in this area.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on September 03, 2020, 10:04:04 AM
Quote from: andoireabu on September 03, 2020, 08:55:15 AM
What is the idea behind reporting a death from Jun in August.  Does it not skew the June figures favourably and the August figures unfavourably?

Why not just amend the June figure if that's actually when they died??

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 03, 2020, 10:08:56 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-53998374

Anyone want to hazard a guess?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 03, 2020, 10:20:58 AM
Better immune systems?

That's an interesting one.

I still think this thing is very far from being understood by anyone - experts included.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on September 03, 2020, 10:26:11 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 03, 2020, 10:20:58 AM
Better immune systems?

That's an interesting one.

I still think this thing is very far from being understood by anyone - experts included.

Less use of antibiotics maybe??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on September 03, 2020, 10:37:39 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 03, 2020, 10:26:11 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 03, 2020, 10:20:58 AM
Better immune systems?

That's an interesting one.

I still think this thing is very far from being understood by anyone - experts included.

Less use of antibiotics maybe??
A smaller susceptible population.
Younger population?
Fewer people with underlying health conditions Including smokers and overweight people?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on September 03, 2020, 10:39:19 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 03, 2020, 10:08:56 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-53998374

Anyone want to hazard a guess?

Another curveball! I cant keep up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 03, 2020, 11:07:43 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 03, 2020, 10:26:11 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 03, 2020, 10:20:58 AM
Better immune systems?

That's an interesting one.

I still think this thing is very far from being understood by anyone - experts included.

Less use of antibiotics maybe??

Another theory. People with underlying conditions etc maybe haven't survived this long so they haven't been taken by covid but by something else. "Privileged" countries have never had that survival of the fittest problem before but do now whereas a lot of african nations have had that?

Who knows :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 03, 2020, 01:28:55 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 03, 2020, 08:57:23 AM
Also why does it take that long? (I'm sure there are perfectly valid reasons but I just don't know what they are)

When they report that death they don't tend to report it from two months ago and it makes it sound like it's recent which it's not and I find that is a bit misleading.

Hospital deaths from covid tends to get reported quicker. Families in no rush to register deaths seems to be the cause for late reporting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 03, 2020, 02:51:40 PM
21 out breaks in care homes up north now. 3 more since yesterday. Oh dear.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 03, 2020, 06:05:55 PM
Sounds like test sites are being overrun by arseholes with no symptoms. I know someone who was at one today and it was full of people carriers with piles of weans getting tested.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 03, 2020, 07:08:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 03, 2020, 06:05:55 PM
Sounds like test sites are being overrun by arseholes with no symptoms. I know someone who was at one today and it was full of people carriers with piles of weans getting tested.

Would they not be there due to contact tracing?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 03, 2020, 07:20:40 PM
HSE estimating up to 1,000 clowns per day not turning up for tests :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on September 03, 2020, 07:37:18 PM
I see some are moaning that people who don't pay tax can't avail of the tax relief for hospitality spend!

It's a good idea overall, hope it works well and hotels and restaurants see the benefit in the 'shoulder season'.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 03, 2020, 07:55:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 03, 2020, 07:08:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 03, 2020, 06:05:55 PM
Sounds like test sites are being overrun by arseholes with no symptoms. I know someone who was at one today and it was full of people carriers with piles of weans getting tested.

Would they not be there due to contact tracing?
It was on the news yesterday that at one site (numbers could be a bit off here) only 63 out of 800 attendees met the criteria for testing I.e. cough, temp etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on September 03, 2020, 08:01:23 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 03, 2020, 07:55:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 03, 2020, 07:08:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 03, 2020, 06:05:55 PM
Sounds like test sites are being overrun by arseholes with no symptoms. I know someone who was at one today and it was full of people carriers with piles of weans getting tested.

Would they not be there due to contact tracing?
It was on the news yesterday that at one site (numbers could be a bit off here) only 63 out of 800 attendees met the criteria for testing I.e. cough, temp etc.

They are there so the parent can get the wean slung back into school after a negative test so they don't have to self isolate, even though pupils are treated as a bubble so if one has it the whole class has to self isolate, regardless of negative test.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: CitySlicker11 on September 03, 2020, 08:46:31 PM
What about loss of smell as a symptom, how would they verify those that show up with that? If people want to take a test for peace of mind there doesn't appear to be any way to stop them doing so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on September 03, 2020, 09:04:17 PM
Quote from: CitySlicker11 on September 03, 2020, 08:46:31 PM
What about loss of smell as a symptom, how would they verify those that show up with that? If people want to take a test for peace of mind there doesn't appear to be any way to stop them doing so.

They can refuse it if they state there are no symptoms but easy way round it is to say you have symptoms
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 03, 2020, 09:05:54 PM
Quote from: hardstation on September 03, 2020, 08:51:20 PM
Schools are back at it, why is the traffic still very light?

A huge percentage of the cars in Belfast City centre would be NICS or BCC. Thems the ones with all the covered parking spaces in BT1 and BT2.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on September 03, 2020, 09:10:40 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 03, 2020, 09:05:54 PM
Quote from: hardstation on September 03, 2020, 08:51:20 PM
Schools are back at it, why is the traffic still very light?

A huge percentage of the cars in Belfast City centre would be NICS or BCC. Thems the ones with all the covered parking spaces in BT1 and BT2.

Are most NICS staff not "WFH"?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 03, 2020, 09:46:31 PM
Someone told me they read an article saying 5% of Belfast city centre is back in the office. That's low.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on September 03, 2020, 09:51:38 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 03, 2020, 09:46:31 PM
Someone told me they read an article saying 5% of Belfast city centre is back in the office. That's low.

Was on bbc the other day, not entirely accurate. People are doing a combination of WFH and in the office so it's higher than that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 03, 2020, 09:57:39 PM
Bring the jobs to Derry. We will work through anything.. see if I see another job announcement for Belfast I'm going to go all scrappy doo  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tintin25 on September 03, 2020, 10:22:10 PM
No doubt you'll get the odd chancer doing sweet fa whilst WFH, although why would anyone be in a rush back to places like the city centre if you can do your job at home?  I'm getting back 2 hours in my day and saving on the commute.  Companies are going to have to show some degree of flexibility
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 03, 2020, 10:25:26 PM
Quote from: tintin25 on September 03, 2020, 10:22:10 PM
No doubt you'll get the odd chancer doing sweet fa whilst WFH, although why would anyone be in a rush back to places like the city centre if you can do your job at home?  I'm getting back 2 hours in my day and saving on the commute.  Companies are going to have to show some degree of flexibility

Agreed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on September 03, 2020, 11:24:16 PM
Quote from: tintin25 on September 03, 2020, 10:22:10 PM
No doubt you'll get the odd chancer doing sweet fa whilst WFH, although why would anyone be in a rush back to places like the city centre if you can do your job at home?  I'm getting back 2 hours in my day and saving on the commute.  Companies are going to have to show some degree of flexibility

The trend was that way anyway. Covid obviously accelerated it, but most companies want you at home so they can downsize the offices
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 03, 2020, 11:57:11 PM
Quote from: hardstation on September 03, 2020, 10:37:30 PM
Because we have to get back to normal. Why should shopkeepers, nurses, doctors & teachers have to go to work but you lazy feckers don't? People are happy to send their kids into packed schools but daren't dream about returning to their own workplaces. Scandalous. I thought we were all in this together. You are taking advantage of a global pandemic to suit your own lazy little needs. You should be ashamed.


Or at least, that's the type of shite other people had thrown at them when they raised back to work concerns.
It's the f**king GPs that need a slap. The NHS has got on with it but they have cowered under a rock and only come out to look at a photo of somebody's sore throat. Useless hoors.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dougal Maguire on September 04, 2020, 12:09:38 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 03, 2020, 10:37:30 PM
Because we have to get back to normal. Why should shopkeepers, nurses, doctors & teachers have to go to work but you lazy feckers don't? People are happy to send their kids into packed schools but daren't dream about returning to their own workplaces. Scandalous. I thought we were all in this together. You are taking advantage of a global pandemic to suit your own lazy little needs. You should be ashamed.


Or at least, that's the type of shite other people had thrown at them when they raised back to work concerns.
That's an unbelievable statement. Who are the lazy feckers you're referring to?  There's any amount of evidence to demonstrate that people wfh are now more productive than when they were office based. What evidence do you have to support the lazy feckers argument?  What do you work at? Are you working from home? Are you a lazy fecker?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on September 04, 2020, 06:37:29 AM
Went head your over that straight
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on September 04, 2020, 08:50:36 AM
https://www.ft.com/content/29ce53cb-ce91-4173-adbb-6c815339e35d


   The English Premier League faces a coronavirus-related shortfall of more than half a billion pounds next season, in findings that lend fresh urgency to negotiations between the sport's officials and government ministers over allowing fans to return to stadiums. 

According to figures collated by Premier League officials and seen by the Financial Times, the 20 member teams in English football's top tier are facing £540m in lost income next season under plans to allow only the partial reopening of grounds from October. 

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro14/leinster-the-biggest-losers-as-empty-stadiums-mean-a-huge-financial-hit-1.4345966
Leinster the biggest losers as empty stadiums mean a huge financial hit
Absence of fans for Munster and Saracens games will see province deprived of over €2m
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on September 04, 2020, 09:08:23 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 04, 2020, 06:45:00 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on September 04, 2020, 12:09:38 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 03, 2020, 10:37:30 PM
Because we have to get back to normal. Why should shopkeepers, nurses, doctors & teachers have to go to work but you lazy feckers don't? People are happy to send their kids into packed schools but daren't dream about returning to their own workplaces. Scandalous. I thought we were all in this together. You are taking advantage of a global pandemic to suit your own lazy little needs. You should be ashamed.


Or at least, that's the type of shite other people had thrown at them when they raised back to work concerns.
That's an unbelievable statement. Who are the lazy feckers you're referring to?  There's any amount of evidence to demonstrate that people wfh are now more productive than when they were office based. What evidence do you have to support the lazy feckers argument?  What do you work at? Are you working from home? Are you a lazy fecker?
I thought you had turned a corner with the "late night" posts. Read the last line again. It may indicate that I don't actually believe the other stuff I wrote but was simply pointing out what bollix people were throwing about when others raised any concerns about returning to their workplaces.

im torn on the WFH thing, I've worked from home a few days the last few years and its never caused me a problem, in fact, an awful lot of jobs can be done from home with a phone and a laptop no bother, cuts down on a lot of headaches for parents with regards dropping kids to school etc in the mornings, throw them round to school and you're still ready to rock at the computer before 9. I think the issue is the knock on effect, the WFH works well for those who can, but what im seeing and hearing is big companies are planning to let people work from home, run down current leases on expensive city centre offices and going smaller, fair enough. the knock on of that is small shops, coffee shops etc who rely totally on the footfall then have their customer base wiped out. I dunno what the answer is but there's gonna be collateral damage after this and I just hope people who have to shut up shop are able to get jobs elsewhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 04, 2020, 09:14:31 AM
I would say a lot of the sandwich shops will end up going. Coffee shops maybe too. West was the best place in Belfast city centre and is already gone which is a real pity. You'd have to imagine public transport will take a big hit too - sure who will go on a bus these days. It definitely will have a knock on but I guess more scope for other businesses elsewhere. I would say it will allow people to live in remoter areas rather than needing to live in a city too which would be a good thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on September 04, 2020, 09:16:16 AM
Marc MacSharry is a loudmouth and it's not often I agree with him but he is right on this occasion.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/authoritarian-and-unnecessary-backlash-as-pubs-and-restaurants-told-to-keep-record-of-all-orders-39502663.html

The Gov propaganda is moving towards the economy and risk now aka last nights prime time. This risk debate ought to have happened 6 weeks ago. Treating the citizens like children for a prolonged period was never going to work.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on September 04, 2020, 09:29:49 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 04, 2020, 09:14:31 AM
I would say a lot of the sandwich shops will end up going. Coffee shops maybe too. West was the best place in Belfast city centre and is already gone which is a real pity. You'd have to imagine public transport will take a big hit too - sure who will go on a bus these days. It definitely will have a knock on but I guess more scope for other businesses elsewhere. I would say it will allow people to live in remoter areas rather than needing to live in a city too which would be a good thing.

500-600 people in our building in Belfast city centre and we only have to go back a minuimum of one day a week. And this is permanent. Ive two young children and this suits me down to the ground although I enjoy being based in the city centre, among the shops and bars etc.
Alot of people with no kids/family itching to get back into the office.
(side note I think there is a hotel being built above West and all shops below had their tenants agreements revoked. Primark fire didn't do it any favour either. Tesco flagship store in belfast also closing down.)
Retail in the city centre was already flat-lining pre covid so who knows whats going to be left in next few years? Discount stores and vaping shops.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on September 04, 2020, 09:31:02 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on September 04, 2020, 09:08:23 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 04, 2020, 06:45:00 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on September 04, 2020, 12:09:38 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 03, 2020, 10:37:30 PM
Because we have to get back to normal. Why should shopkeepers, nurses, doctors & teachers have to go to work but you lazy feckers don't? People are happy to send their kids into packed schools but daren't dream about returning to their own workplaces. Scandalous. I thought we were all in this together. You are taking advantage of a global pandemic to suit your own lazy little needs. You should be ashamed.


Or at least, that's the type of shite other people had thrown at them when they raised back to work concerns.
That's an unbelievable statement. Who are the lazy feckers you're referring to?  There's any amount of evidence to demonstrate that people wfh are now more productive than when they were office based. What evidence do you have to support the lazy feckers argument?  What do you work at? Are you working from home? Are you a lazy fecker?
I thought you had turned a corner with the "late night" posts. Read the last line again. It may indicate that I don't actually believe the other stuff I wrote but was simply pointing out what bollix people were throwing about when others raised any concerns about returning to their workplaces.

im torn on the WFH thing, I've worked from home a few days the last few years and its never caused me a problem, in fact, an awful lot of jobs can be done from home with a phone and a laptop no bother, cuts down on a lot of headaches for parents with regards dropping kids to school etc in the mornings, throw them round to school and you're still ready to rock at the computer before 9. I think the issue is the knock on effect, the WFH works well for those who can, but what im seeing and hearing is big companies are planning to let people work from home, run down current leases on expensive city centre offices and going smaller, fair enough. the knock on of that is small shops, coffee shops etc who rely totally on the footfall then have their customer base wiped out. I dunno what the answer is but there's gonna be collateral damage after this and I just hope people who have to shut up shop are able to get jobs elsewhere.

It's also going to have a knock-on effect for workers themselves. Good luck as a young person starting out trying to make work connections and friends, and trying to impress the boss via email and Zoom. The in-person aspect of work life matters when it comes to careers and even social lives.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 04, 2020, 09:34:58 AM
On a different but kind of related note I often wonder how it is being single these days. I would imagine tinder/ grinder or whatever you are into doesn't work so well these days.

We have onboarded a few remotely and you have to feel for them that they will miss the social interactions. Actually met a guy who'd worked in the company 6 months when we went for a few, responsibly socially distanced obviously, pints the other week. Strange times.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 04, 2020, 10:06:27 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 04, 2020, 09:34:58 AM
On a different but kind of related note I often wonder how it is being single these days. I would imagine tinder/ grinder or whatever you are into doesn't work so well these days.

We have onboarded a few remotely and you have to feel for them that they will miss the social interactions. Actually met a guy who'd worked in the company 6 months when we went for a few, responsibly socially distanced obviously, pints the other week. Strange times.

People adapt I suppose. I know a few fellas my own age that have picked themselves up women in the middle of this all...how that happened is a cause for speculation I suppose. I think we are being naive if we think closing the bars stopped that kind of thing.

On the working from home thing, I have been in the office the whole time myself but others I know that have been working from home have definitely changed, not in a positive way. Some of them I would worry about what goes on in their minds right now. Worrying times.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tintin25 on September 04, 2020, 10:40:55 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 04, 2020, 09:14:31 AM
I would say a lot of the sandwich shops will end up going. Coffee shops maybe too. West was the best place in Belfast city centre and is already gone which is a real pity. You'd have to imagine public transport will take a big hit too - sure who will go on a bus these days. It definitely will have a knock on but I guess more scope for other businesses elsewhere. I would say it will allow people to live in remoter areas rather than needing to live in a city too which would be a good thing.

I think places on the outskirts of Belfast can benefit, particularly those towns where a lot of people would have commuted from.  Why not invest in the likes of sandwich shops etc in these places.  It's great not having to endure the M1 journey from say Lisburn to Belfast these mornings the last few months.  I still think the office has a place and I'm not naïve in thinking that some companies will just allow people to WFH Mon - Friday 9 - 5, even a 3 day office week and 2 days WFH would be a flexible enough arrangement.  Companies need to evolve with the times, it'll be depressing having to go back to a full week in the office....it isn't school like!

Also, given we're are now in a recession, can't see people getting salary increases or that any time soon...again another argument they can make to WFH to compensate for same.

As for being single, sure it was nearly done all online anyway regardless if Covid had of happened or not lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 04, 2020, 11:11:21 AM
Not having thousands of cars and packed buses and trains piling in City Centres at the same time has to be a positive.
Can public and private organisations not provide some sort of "hubs" in various locations for those who can do all or most of their work in them?
Could be a great boon for a small town if even 30 or 40 people from the area were based there even 4 days a week rather than stuck in the middle of Dublin, Galway, Belfast or wherever.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on September 04, 2020, 11:34:40 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 04, 2020, 11:11:21 AM
Not having thousands of cars and packed buses and trains piling in City Centres at the same time has to be a positive.
Can public and private organisations not provide some sort of "hubs" in various locations for those who can do all or most of their work in them?
Could be a great boon for a small town if even 30 or 40 people from the area were based there even 4 days a week rather than stuck in the middle of Dublin, Galway, Belfast or wherever.

I would see this as a major positive potential outcome of the remote working. It could keep some people working in the area they grew up & having a positive knock on effect for small local businesses, schools, clubs etc, whilst not putting a strain on large urban areas, housing, traffic management,  schools, healthcare etc.
Conversely J70 point about young ones building relationships with co workers is a valid point for mental wellbeing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on September 04, 2020, 11:35:05 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 04, 2020, 11:11:21 AM
Not having thousands of cars and packed buses and trains piling in City Centres at the same time has to be a positive.
Can public and private organisations not provide some sort of "hubs" in various locations for those who can do all or most of their work in them?
Could be a great boon for a small town if even 30 or 40 people from the area were based there even 4 days a week rather than stuck in the middle of Dublin, Galway, Belfast or wherever.

That is what is starting to be discussed. Locations close to higher eduction campus's too so they can recruit graduates.

I'm not sure you'll see small towns benefit from opening hubs directly but more that they suddenly become commuter options for these hubs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 04, 2020, 11:39:00 AM
This kinda flies in the face of what is being proposed for Belfast mind you?

45k square metres of office space - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54017655
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 04, 2020, 12:56:48 PM
Maybe the tide is going out on those kind of things?

Yes bigfella even if you only had regional hubs it would help keep people in rural areas e.g one in Longford would enable a lot of people in that County plus a lot of Ros, Leitrim and Cavan too to stay at home. With hubs rather than "WFH" there'd be a social element too.
By the way I see that Paul Reid the HSE CEO lives in Laythrum.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on September 04, 2020, 01:00:15 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 04, 2020, 11:39:00 AM
This kinda flies in the face of what is being proposed for Belfast mind you?

45k square metres of office space - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54017655

Belfast needs a serious residential injection if it is going to survive as a thriving city centre not more office space that no-one will want.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dougal Maguire on September 04, 2020, 04:00:15 PM
Quote from: hardstation on September 04, 2020, 06:45:00 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on September 04, 2020, 12:09:38 AM
Quote from: hardstation on September 03, 2020, 10:37:30 PM
Because we have to get back to normal. Why should shopkeepers, nurses, doctors & teachers have to go to work but you lazy feckers don't? People are happy to send their kids into packed schools but daren't dream about returning to their own workplaces. Scandalous. I thought we were all in this together. You are taking advantage of a global pandemic to suit your own lazy little needs. You should be ashamed.


Or at least, that's the type of shite other people had thrown at them when they raised back to work concerns.
That's an unbelievable statement. Who are the lazy feckers you're referring to?  There's any amount of evidence to demonstrate that people wfh are now more productive than when they were office based. What evidence do you have to support the lazy feckers argument?  What do you work at? Are you working from home? Are you a lazy fecker?
I thought you had turned a corner with the "late night" posts. Read the last line again. It may indicate that I don't actually believe the other stuff I wrote but was simply pointing out what bollix people were throwing about when others raised any concerns about returning to their workplaces.
Aw come on now, it wasn't that late! I didn't read the last lime at all hence my misunderstanding of your post. Sorry about that. As the man himself would say 'I stand corrected'
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on September 04, 2020, 08:28:10 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/now-for-the-tricky-bit-we-need-to-move-from-a-state-of-fear-to-being-cautious-1.4346915?mode=amp

Shortall set out three ways the Government "is not playing its part – the need to honour its commitment to ensure we have an effective testing and tracing system in place; to ensure we have proper controls at our airports and ports; and to ensure that open information and data are made available, and that they would drive the policy in this area".

Ireland's response to Covid-19 was forged, understandably, in a time of crisis. Six months on, we still have a patchwork of regulations, guidance notes and laws that are often mutually inconsistent or lack a clear evidence-based rationale. This was clear during the controversy over Phil Hogan's involvement in the Oireachtas Golf Society dinner, and the inconsistencies also featured in the kickback in Kildare over local restrictions imposed on the county.

The National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) has been clear in fulfilling its public health remit but, above them, the co-ordination of actions has been haphazard, particularly since the change of government.

This matters, because the actions needed to stem the outbreak impinge on so many areas of life, and involve multiple Government departments and agencies. It is hard to think of a single decision on Covid-19 that the Government has made so far that wasn't just a rubber-stamping of NPHET's recommendations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 06, 2020, 06:11:08 PM
My weekly update.

Cases in the ROI this week - 921 (114 more than last week but a lot more testing done)
Deaths reported - 1 (that death happened in June)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on September 07, 2020, 12:42:25 AM
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-54000629
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 07, 2020, 09:36:26 AM
Quote from: highorlow on September 07, 2020, 12:42:25 AM
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-54000629

Something I've long thought is happening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on September 07, 2020, 12:03:21 PM
QuoteSomething I've long thought is happening.

Either this is the case or the mask wearing and handwashing is stopping the spread to the 5 or more close contacts for each infected person as the 5 contacts certainly aren't getting infected based on the "daily" stats

I only taper in and out of this thing these days as it's not good for the soul, but a few weeks back it was said that one young buck had up to 50 "close contacts" (majority I assume would be their young bucks / young wans) - it would be useful if we got the stats as to how many of his close contacts were infected. The demography etc of this citizen should be issued and his / her living conditions.

That would be the real "R" number there, especially among the healthy and low risk citizens. This is what the "professors" ought to be studying and risk assessing instead we have a "professor" from UCC given air time saying we should've stayed shut down longer back in June to "clear" the virus. He is lucky to have a handy number in UCC.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 07, 2020, 12:52:25 PM
Quote from: highorlow on September 07, 2020, 12:03:21 PM
QuoteSomething I've long thought is happening.

Either this is the case or the mask wearing and handwashing is stopping the spread to the 5 or more close contacts for each infected person as the 5 contacts certainly aren't getting infected based on the "daily" stats

Masks etc do reduce transmission and it seems likely that they reduce the viral load, so even if you get a touch of the virus the immune system is able to mop it up.


Quote
That would be the real "R" number there, especially among the healthy and low risk citizens. This is what the "professors" ought to be studying and risk assessing instead we have a "professor" from UCC given air time saying we should've stayed shut down longer back in June to "clear" the virus. He is lucky to have a handy number in UCC.

Nevertheless the numbers continue to increase each week and you had hospital staff etc getting cases in recent weeks. That trend can only lead to problems eventually.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 07, 2020, 05:13:38 PM
The last 7 days compared to the previous week in the ROI had 114 extra cases from 12,027 extra tests conducted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on September 08, 2020, 05:50:56 PM
307 cases in the Republic of today. 182 were from Dublin. They need to lock Dublin down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on September 08, 2020, 06:01:35 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 08, 2020, 05:50:56 PM
307 cases in the Republic of today. 182 were from Dublin. They need to lock Dublin down.

190 of those 307 cases are from previous days. Dublin are getting closer to having restrictions applied.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 08, 2020, 06:03:21 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 08, 2020, 05:50:56 PM
307 cases in the Republic of today. 182 were from Dublin. They need to lock Dublin down.

It gives them a good case for not opening pubs in Dublin, but allowing those elsewhere open.
They have largely kept it out of the hospitals though, unlike NI.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 09, 2020, 08:25:35 PM
84 today, 51 in Dublin. The pubs will have to be held off opening in Dublin at least.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 09, 2020, 08:30:02 PM
Would the majority of pubs in Dublin be foodie pubs?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 09, 2020, 08:59:01 PM
This is a genuine question lads, what is the fascination with keeping bars closed?

It makes no difference to me, I don't drink personally. Everything seems to be keeping the bars closed. There is going to come a time when these people all get together and take a class action v The Govt for restriction of trade though surely? Is it fair these people are being ruined for something that, is in no way their fault? People are bending the restictions every which way now, its naive to suggest otherwise. Should they just be opened - give people more choice and as a result, spread out the concentration of those that are taking the piss at the moment?


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on September 09, 2020, 10:57:23 PM
I agree they should close McDonald's and all the other fast food shit holes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 10, 2020, 01:29:32 AM
Quote from: highorlow on September 09, 2020, 10:57:23 PM
I agree they should close McDonald's and all the other fast food shit holes.

You may think this, but there is no evidence of a significant role for McDonalds in spreading Covid19.

Meanwhile Professor drops dead while giving Zoom lecture
https://www.thesun.ie/news/5868631/teacher-collapses-dies-coronavirus-zoom-lesson/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 10, 2020, 04:43:01 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 09, 2020, 08:59:01 PM
This is a genuine question lads, what is the fascination with keeping bars closed?

It makes no difference to me, I don't drink personally. Everything seems to be keeping the bars closed. There is going to come a time when these people all get together and take a class action v The Govt for restriction of trade though surely? Is it fair these people are being ruined for something that, is in no way their fault? People are bending the restictions every which way now, its naive to suggest otherwise. Should they just be opened - give people more choice and as a result, spread out the concentration of those that are taking the piss at the moment?

The vintners are welcome to sue the virus but I'm damned if I know how it's going to pay out any compensation in any settlement.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on September 10, 2020, 01:09:00 PM
The new regulations from Monday week seem to make a lot more sense, and it will be the end of 'wet pubs' being differentiated.

If you have 1m between tables then max stay is 1.45 and advance booking is required
If you have 2m between tables, then no advance booking and you can stay as long as you like (but name and number of one person per table has to be recorded).
Table service only, no sitting at bar and if you leave your table you must wear a mask.

If they do they decide to do a Dublin lockdown, I wonder will they split the county for these purposes (which i'd be all in favour of  ;D. )?  Prime Time this week suggested this was a possibility and that Dublin West has the highest numbers. Although "Dublin West" is probably not defined anywhere as it's not one of the county council splits!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 10, 2020, 05:04:05 PM
Use Eircodes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on September 10, 2020, 06:05:27 PM
Localised Covid restrictions being introduced in Belfast and Ballymena to "push down on this rising curve of infection"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 13, 2020, 05:49:43 PM
Not a good week at all, back to early May figures.

Cases in the ROI this week - 1314 (393 more than last week)

Deaths reported - 8 (all deaths apparently happened recently)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 13, 2020, 06:24:06 PM
While you can make a case that the present numbers are tolerable, you can't have increasing numbers each week with running into problems down the line.with universities restarting in the next few weeks with at least some gathering it's looks like something will give.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on September 13, 2020, 07:36:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 13, 2020, 06:24:06 PM
While you can make a case that the present numbers are tolerable, you can't have increasing numbers each week with running into problems down the line.with universities restarting in the next few weeks with at least some gathering it's looks like something will give.
Numbers are going up everywhere as people spend more time indoors. France is pretty bad, for example.
The authorities will try to avoid national lockdowns but local restrictions will be used a lot
There was a good article in the FT about using quick and dirty tests

https://www.ft.com/content/059684da-b180-409b-865f-d7283c7407b3
"Imagine a quick-and-dirty test which takes five minutes to conduct, but produces a false positive rate of 10 per cent. Two hundred false positives might be flagged for every genuine case. That is disastrously high if we apply the current UK rules, in which the tested person and everyone in their household has to self-isolate for more than a week. But even the bad test produces some information: the person with a positive test is 10 times more likely to be infected than a randomly selected person.

So what about the following rule? If you take the test at the school gate and test positive, you must go home and try again tomorrow. If you take a positive test at the theatre entrance, you will need to leave and your ticket will be refunded. If you take it on arrival at Heathrow airport, you'll have to do a more accurate swab test and isolate until results arrive. These are all irritating scenarios for the 200 out of 201 who do not actually have the virus. But they are not nearly as irritating as no school, no theatre, no flights and everyone back in lockdown by Christmas. Fast, cheap tests don't need to be perfect to help contain the virus. They don't even need to be nearly perfect. Cheap and quick is enough — provided we use the information wisely. We can't shut down a school or an office block because one person tests positive on a ropey test: the risk of false positives is too great. But we can ask them to stay at home instead and book a more accurate test"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 13, 2020, 07:48:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 13, 2020, 06:24:06 PM
While you can make a case that the present numbers are tolerable, you can't have increasing numbers each week with running into problems down the line.with universities restarting in the next few weeks with at least some gathering it's looks like something will give.

I can imagine more restrictions will be placed on Dublin, 784  cases they had this week alone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on September 13, 2020, 08:28:54 PM
cant lockdown dublin without a blockade otherwise its fake lockdown people will go to kildare pubs or dundalk
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on September 13, 2020, 08:37:18 PM
Is Ireland on the verge of some sort of civil meltdown with the emergence of elements of the far right and qanon people in ireland.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 13, 2020, 08:47:34 PM
That sh1te got 0.8% of the vote in the GE.
Cases rising in Dublin and the News saying the Government want people to stop working from home to save City Centre business.
No word about the positives for small towns having more of their  people staying at home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on September 14, 2020, 03:26:44 PM
Some hope perhaps?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-effectiveness-october-pfizer/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on September 14, 2020, 04:59:46 PM
Quote from: Taylor on September 14, 2020, 03:26:44 PM
Some hope perhaps?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-vaccine-effectiveness-october-pfizer/

Its the hope that kills ya!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on September 14, 2020, 06:21:36 PM
QuoteThat sh1te got 0.8% of the vote in the GE.

Back when we were a Republic.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 14, 2020, 06:49:31 PM
Quote from: highorlow on September 14, 2020, 06:21:36 PM
QuoteThat sh1te got 0.8% of the vote in the GE.

Back when we were a Republic.....


??????
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 15, 2020, 05:46:27 PM
As expected the published roadmap has caused plenty of confusion. For some reason Dublin aren't placed at level 3. (over 200 causes confirmed today there)

The latest developments takes the biscuit. The health minister Stephen Donnelly turned up to the Dáil today feeling unwell and now the entire cabinet is self isolating and the Dáil is abandoned for the week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 15, 2020, 05:49:46 PM
Donnelly has some track record ;D
Moving parties, knowing everything, and now possibly infecting the whole Cabibet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on September 15, 2020, 05:50:56 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on September 15, 2020, 05:46:27 PM
The latest developments takes the biscuit. The health minister Stephen Donnelly turned up to the Dáil today feeling unwell and now the entire cabinet is self isolating and the Dáil is abandoned for the week.

::) Have they not been social distancing?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on September 15, 2020, 05:52:55 PM
the news story i read said he began to feel unwell around lunchtime.. not turned up feeling unwell which are very different things.

still begs the question, if positive, how he got it and how many close contacts he has had
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 15, 2020, 06:59:43 PM
347 cases and 3 deaths in the 26 counties, not only the weather is similar to April at this stage.

218 of them were recorded in Dublin, 18 were recorded in Louth, 12 in Waterford, 11 in Kildare, nine in Cork, eight in Kerry, eight in Limerick, eight in Meath, seven in Westmeath, six in Wicklow, five in Offaly, five in Roscommon, five in Mayo, and five in Tipperary.

The remaining 32 cases are located in Carlow, Cavan, Clare, Donegal, Galway, Kilkenny, Laois, Leitrim, Monaghan, Sligo and Wexford.

seemingly Longford is the place to be.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on September 15, 2020, 07:02:53 PM
Quote from: hardstation on September 15, 2020, 06:14:33 PM
Quote from: five points on September 15, 2020, 05:50:56 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on September 15, 2020, 05:46:27 PM
The latest developments takes the biscuit. The health minister Stephen Donnelly turned up to the Dáil today feeling unwell and now the entire cabinet is self isolating and the Dáil is abandoned for the week.

::) Have they not been social distancing?
Exactly! In schools, if there is a positive Covid case (not just someone feels sick), the guidance is that teachers don't need to isolate or be tested as they have been instructed to stay 2m away from everyone.

Yet, in the Dáil, a man feels sick and the whole thing is suspended. What a crock of shite.
Micheal D should stand up tall and take the helm
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on September 15, 2020, 07:33:39 PM
Quote from: hardstation on September 15, 2020, 06:14:33 PM
Quote from: five points on September 15, 2020, 05:50:56 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on September 15, 2020, 05:46:27 PM
The latest developments takes the biscuit. The health minister Stephen Donnelly turned up to the Dáil today feeling unwell and now the entire cabinet is self isolating and the Dáil is abandoned for the week.

::) Have they not been social distancing?
Exactly! In schools, if there is a positive Covid case (not just someone feels sick), the guidance is that teachers don't need to isolate or be tested as they have been instructed to stay 2m away from everyone.

Yet, in the Dáil, a man feels sick and the whole thing is suspended. What a crock of shite.

It would appear cabinet were in close contact hence the need for restricted movement.

The Dáil was adjourned but since rescinded because Ministers are needed to do business. Social distancing is practiced in Dáil. I think adjournment is now rescind ed and junior ministers will run the show.

/Jim.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 15, 2020, 07:46:43 PM
I am not convinced by that guy Donnelly's levels of competence thus far and this doesn't help either...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on September 15, 2020, 09:22:33 PM
Test came back negative. Donnelly is in way over his head though
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 15, 2020, 09:39:41 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 15, 2020, 07:46:43 PM
I am not convinced by that guy Donnelly's levels of competence thus far and this doesn't help either...

He has been a disappointment. However, it also shows that the government generally did not have a plan for when a minister would feel a bit off, which was inevitable. They should have had a plan which would just click into place and there was no evidence of that. Any organisation should have a plan for any given person to disappear for 14 days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on September 15, 2020, 09:55:30 PM
The Donnelly situation reminded me of our celebrity doctor Dr Ciara. On the Sindo the week before she got Covid, telling us stupids how not to get Covid. Its really simple keep apart, wash the hands well etc etc.
On the paper while she had it telling us how sick she was, stop the world I want to get off.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 15, 2020, 10:22:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 15, 2020, 09:39:41 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 15, 2020, 07:46:43 PM
I am not convinced by that guy Donnelly's levels of competence thus far and this doesn't help either...

He has been a disappointment. However, it also shows that the government generally did not have a plan for when a minister would feel a bit off, which was inevitable. They should have had a plan which would just click into place and there was no evidence of that. Any organisation should have a plan for any given person to disappear for 14 days.
Sinn Fein are well used to disappearing people so this won't be a problem when they're in power
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on September 16, 2020, 06:48:07 PM
After another 136 confirmed cases for Dublin today Prof Nolan has said this evening that hospitalisations and disease is concentrated in Dublin.

Looks like a matter of time before Dublin are moved into level 3.

August had 4 covid deaths, so far 14 deaths in September. 10% of the cases in the last 2 weeks have been in people over 65. Not a good stat as it will likely mean a further increase in deaths in the weeks ahead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 16, 2020, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on September 16, 2020, 06:48:07 PM
After another 136 confirmed cases for Dublin today Prof Nolan has said this evening that hospitalisations and disease is concentrated in Dublin.

Looks like a matter of time before Dublin are moved into level 3.

August had 4 covid deaths, so far 14 deaths in September. 10% of the cases in the last 2 weeks have been in people over 65. Not a good stat as it will likely mean a further increase in deaths in the weeks ahead.

The increase was always inevitable given the way things were going. Other parts of Europe have similar problems, Marseilles has run out of ICU beds.
In Dublin, the third level places are all starting to some extent in the next two weeks and the virus is already out of control even before that happens.
Dublin will be on the higher level.
GAA wise the best hope is that they ban training for 3 months.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on September 16, 2020, 07:21:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 16, 2020, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on September 16, 2020, 06:48:07 PM
After another 136 confirmed cases for Dublin today Prof Nolan has said this evening that hospitalisations and disease is concentrated in Dublin.

Looks like a matter of time before Dublin are moved into level 3.

August had 4 covid deaths, so far 14 deaths in September. 10% of the cases in the last 2 weeks have been in people over 65. Not a good stat as it will likely mean a further increase in deaths in the weeks ahead.

The increase was always inevitable given the way things were going. Other parts of Europe have similar problems, Marseilles has run out of ICU beds.
In Dublin, the third level places are all starting to some extent in the next two weeks and the virus is already out of control even before that happens.
Dublin will be on the higher level.
GAA wise the best hope is that they ban training for 3 months.
DCU's pitches in Glasnevin should obviously be declared Level 5 ie DEFCON 1
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 16, 2020, 08:44:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 16, 2020, 07:21:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 16, 2020, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on September 16, 2020, 06:48:07 PM
After another 136 confirmed cases for Dublin today Prof Nolan has said this evening that hospitalisations and disease is concentrated in Dublin.

Looks like a matter of time before Dublin are moved into level 3.

August had 4 covid deaths, so far 14 deaths in September. 10% of the cases in the last 2 weeks have been in people over 65. Not a good stat as it will likely mean a further increase in deaths in the weeks ahead.

Dublin has probably deployed a reserve team in Longford or Sligo, just in case or maybe they have 30 players on Lambay Island, who can be brought to games at country venues by helicopter.
The increase was always inevitable given the way things were going. Other parts of Europe have similar problems, Marseilles has run out of ICU beds.
In Dublin, the third level places are all starting to some extent in the next two weeks and the virus is already out of control even before that happens.
Dublin will be on the higher level.
GAA wise the best hope is that they ban training for 3 months.
DCU's pitches in Glasnevin should obviously be declared Level 5 ie DEFCON 1
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on September 17, 2020, 07:27:37 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/JOEdotie/status/1306327999885631488
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 17, 2020, 09:34:38 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 17, 2020, 07:27:37 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/JOEdotie/status/1306327999885631488

At this stage. we've heard it all....look, this sounds bad but people are desensitised to all now and you can see that in the day to day events.

It's a fair point raised in the video of course but after 8 odd months at this stage of it, basically the reaction to largely 95% of my daily interaction is both in and outside Ireland, "lets get on with it". The major scare tactic at the start of the pandemic was justified of course, but people are now getting numb to it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on September 17, 2020, 09:41:12 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 17, 2020, 09:34:38 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 17, 2020, 07:27:37 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/JOEdotie/status/1306327999885631488

At this stage. we've heard it all....look, this sounds bad but people are desensitised to all now and you can see that in the day to day events.

It's a fair point raised in the video of course but after 8 odd months at this stage of it, basically the reaction to largely 95% of my daily interaction is both in and outside Ireland, "lets get on with it". The major scare tactic at the start of the pandemic was justified of course, but people are now getting numb to it.

Irony there - if it was justified it certainly wasnt a scare tactic.
It was a necessity and if it didnt happen many more on this island would have lost loved ones
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 17, 2020, 09:43:36 AM
Meant in so much - and you could see it at the start of this thread for example.

Life wouldn't be the same again, normality as we knew it was dead....but sure here we are and people are flying out on summer hols (or whatever remains of it) to whatever spot is on the Green List right now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on September 17, 2020, 10:03:47 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 17, 2020, 09:43:36 AM
Meant in so much - and you could see it at the start of this thread for example.

Life wouldn't be the same again, normality as we knew it was dead....but sure here we are and people are flying out on summer hols (or whatever remains of it) to whatever spot is on the Green List right now.

Fair enough.

Has anyone been on foreign holidays? Cant imagine it is anything similar to what it was before?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 17, 2020, 10:11:25 AM
Couple of ones in my work place have been away. One was caught in Croatia....had to do the quarantine because flight home was more expensive than it was worth.

Few been to Greece. Business as usual so they are saying - bar the nightclubs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on September 17, 2020, 10:36:52 AM
Any flu numbers from last 5-10 years compared to now?, I know it's only Sept.
Yes, I'm implying that it's a bad flu,  and yes I have had a death in the family from Covid19 "related" symptoms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 17, 2020, 10:44:28 AM
Quote from: Dire Ear on September 17, 2020, 10:36:52 AM
Any flu numbers from last 5-10 years compared to now?, I know it's only Sept.
Yes, I'm implying that it's a bad flu,  and yes I have had a death in the family from Covid19 "related" symptoms.

Are you entirely resistant to information? It isn't a "bad flu" it is an order or magnitude higher with 10-20 times the fatalities, and that is even with measures. All the data showed deaths this year far beyond the average and that average includes flu. Flu has a vaccine, it isn't entirely effective but keeps things under some control. And it is only September, flu only really kills a lot of people in 3 months of the year, hence January is higher in a normal year, you would have feck all dying from flu in June to August in any case.

(https://e3.365dm.com/20/06/768x432/skynews-uk-deaths-excess-deaths_5014521.jpg)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 17, 2020, 11:07:13 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 17, 2020, 09:43:36 AM
Meant in so much - and you could see it at the start of this thread for example.

Life wouldn't be the same again, normality as we knew it was dead....but sure here we are and people are flying out on summer hols (or whatever remains of it) to whatever spot is on the Green List right now.
And the Ulster Final drew 30,000 to Clones in mid June.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 17, 2020, 11:11:25 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 17, 2020, 11:07:13 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 17, 2020, 09:43:36 AM
Meant in so much - and you could see it at the start of this thread for example.

Life wouldn't be the same again, normality as we knew it was dead....but sure here we are and people are flying out on summer hols (or whatever remains of it) to whatever spot is on the Green List right now.
And the Ulster Final drew 30,000 to Clones in mid June.....

If it went ahead tomorrow and it was passed.....you'd have 30k at it. Would you disagree?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 17, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Just pointing out that life hasn't returned to anything near normal as we knew it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 17, 2020, 11:53:55 AM
Yeah but that's by law....not by desire.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 17, 2020, 12:03:14 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 17, 2020, 11:53:55 AM
Yeah but that's by law....not by desire.

Of course we want it back to normal but while this dose is knocking around we do not want to get Covid, law or no law.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on September 17, 2020, 12:15:37 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on September 17, 2020, 10:36:52 AM
Any flu numbers from last 5-10 years compared to now?, I know it's only Sept.
Yes, I'm implying that it's a bad flu,  and yes I have had a death in the family from Covid19 "related" symptoms.

The Covid restriction measures have serioudly slowed down the spread of the flu, which is much more predictable and treatable
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on September 17, 2020, 12:28:31 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on September 17, 2020, 12:15:37 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on September 17, 2020, 10:36:52 AM
Any flu numbers from last 5-10 years compared to now?, I know it's only Sept.
Yes, I'm implying that it's a bad flu,  and yes I have had a death in the family from Covid19 "related" symptoms.

The Covid restriction measures have serioudly slowed down the spread of the flu, which is much more predictable and treatable
Handwashing , masks and reduced social interaction have really helped.   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 17, 2020, 12:40:31 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on September 17, 2020, 12:15:37 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on September 17, 2020, 10:36:52 AM
Any flu numbers from last 5-10 years compared to now?, I know it's only Sept.
Yes, I'm implying that it's a bad flu,  and yes I have had a death in the family from Covid19 "related" symptoms.

The Covid restriction measures have serioudly slowed down the spread of the flu, which is much more predictable and treatable

Normally they base the flu vaccine on the variations in circulation in the southern hemisphere over our summer. This year flu has been much less common and the vaccine has been delayed as consequence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 17, 2020, 08:11:12 PM
240 extra cases and 1 death today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 17, 2020, 08:38:57 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 17, 2020, 08:11:12 PM
240 extra cases and 1 death today.

6 counties is 149, which is even more pro rate. There is some sort of cluster in the area from Armagh city to the Monaghan border.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 18, 2020, 11:12:34 AM
So did the Swedes get it right then?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/15/sweden-records-its-fewest-daily-covid-19-cases-since-march
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on September 18, 2020, 11:26:15 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 18, 2020, 11:12:34 AM
So did the Swedes get it right then?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/15/sweden-records-its-fewest-daily-covid-19-cases-since-march

Too early to say, in 5 years time perhaps we can answer that question. The usual lads will say Sweden called it badly wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Norf Tyrone on September 18, 2020, 11:45:33 AM
"Otherwise, the population of 10 million was asked, rather than ordered, to respect physical distancing and work from home if possible, which it largely did."

How would people in Ireland etc react to being asked to not mix in pubs etc? It would've been carnage. We are a much more militant population than the Scandinavians I would suggest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on September 18, 2020, 11:56:03 AM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on September 18, 2020, 11:45:33 AM
"Otherwise, the population of 10 million was asked, rather than ordered, to respect physical distancing and work from home if possible, which it largely did."

How would people in Ireland etc react to being asked to not mix in pubs etc? It would've been carnage. We are a much more militant population than the Scandinavians I would suggest.

I think Irish people have become pretty compliant apart from a few militant hard left & right nutters. Examples of non compliance would be the water rates debacle & recent anti mask rallies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Denn Forever on September 18, 2020, 11:59:20 AM
Are  the pubs open again?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on September 18, 2020, 12:09:31 PM
Something that would be a big concern in the future would be the long term effects of getting the virus.

I know of 5 people that had it.

3 have made a full recovery with no side effects.

The other 2 are not so lucky. Both under 40 & healthy before they caught it

One is still suffering - no energy/pains in the chest/breathing problems.
The other is still going through tests in hospital for chest problems.

Looks like no one know the long term damage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 18, 2020, 01:01:58 PM
A new virus so things only coming to light as it goes on.
Some of the after effects are frightening and hopefully those that haven't any will stay that way.
Not much consolation telling Taylor's 2 friends that 98.86% dont die from it.
99.99% of people don't drown in the sea but we still have lifeboats.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on September 18, 2020, 01:35:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 18, 2020, 01:01:58 PM
A new virus so things only coming to light as it goes on.
Some of the after effects are frightening and hopefully those that haven't any will stay that way.
Not much consolation telling Taylor's 2 friends that 98.86% dont die from it.
99.99% of people don't drown in the sea but we still have lifeboats.

There are other effects of the virus that are hard to impossible to define in terms of numbers. Mental health, shut down of essential life saving medical appointments/ treatment. Huge amount of collateral damage caused by Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 18, 2020, 01:41:20 PM
Quote from: Rudi on September 18, 2020, 01:35:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 18, 2020, 01:01:58 PM
A new virus so things only coming to light as it goes on.
Some of the after effects are frightening and hopefully those that haven't any will stay that way.
Not much consolation telling Taylor's 2 friends that 98.86% dont die from it.
99.99% of people don't drown in the sea but we still have lifeboats.

There are other effects of the virus that are hard to impossible to define in terms of numbers. Mental health, shut down of essential life saving medical appointments/ treatment. Huge amount of collateral damage caused by Covid.


This is it summed up for me.

We can throw a load of eggs in the "we don't know the lasting effects of Covid" basket.

But those eggs will come from baskets we are very aware of.

The greater gamble - in my opinion only - is to postpone the present for a future we can't predict.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 18, 2020, 01:43:22 PM
So Rudi do we ignore the Covid and get on with business as pre 2020 usual and tough luck on those who get it.
The Yanks seemed to start on that road for a while if I recall correctly?
By the way the Brits must be in right trouble with their testing seeing as they asked us could we help them!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on September 18, 2020, 01:45:43 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 18, 2020, 11:12:34 AM
So did the Swedes get it right then?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/15/sweden-records-its-fewest-daily-covid-19-cases-since-march

Sweden needs to be compared to Norway, Denmark and Finland to get a reasonable idea of how their strategy worked in that part of the world. Better geographical and cultural comparison.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on September 18, 2020, 01:52:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 18, 2020, 01:43:22 PM
So Rudi do we ignore the Covid and get on with business as pre 2020 usual and tough luck on those who get it.
The Yanks seemed to start on that road for a while if I recall correctly?
By the way the Brits must be in right trouble with their testing seeing as they asked us could we help them!!

You draw strange conclusions, you called me a Covid denier before. I appreciate this virus is new to the western world and scientists/ people in authority need to play things safe until more is known, however some sort of middle ground or balance is required.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 18, 2020, 01:57:11 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 18, 2020, 01:43:22 PM
So Rudi do we ignore the Covid and get on with business as pre 2020 usual and tough luck on those who get it.
The Yanks seemed to start on that road for a while if I recall correctly?
By the way the Brits must be in right trouble with their testing seeing as they asked us could we help them!!

We do this with everything else. Why not Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on September 18, 2020, 01:59:10 PM
Quote from: Taylor on September 18, 2020, 12:09:31 PM
Something that would be a big concern in the future would be the long term effects of getting the virus.

I know of 5 people that had it.

3 have made a full recovery with no side effects.

The other 2 are not so lucky. Both under 40 & healthy before they caught it

One is still suffering - no energy/pains in the chest/breathing problems.
The other is still going through tests in hospital for chest problems.

Looks like no one know the long term damage.

Of the 2 that's still suffering did they require hospital treatment when they got the virus? While this is a new virus and loads to be learnt about it  yet we must be remember that any viral infection usually causes myocarditis.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on September 18, 2020, 02:45:43 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on September 18, 2020, 01:59:10 PM
Quote from: Taylor on September 18, 2020, 12:09:31 PM
Something that would be a big concern in the future would be the long term effects of getting the virus.

I know of 5 people that had it.

3 have made a full recovery with no side effects.

The other 2 are not so lucky. Both under 40 & healthy before they caught it

One is still suffering - no energy/pains in the chest/breathing problems.
The other is still going through tests in hospital for chest problems.

Looks like no one know the long term damage.

Of the 2 that's still suffering did they require hospital treatment when they got the virus? While this is a new virus and loads to be learnt about it  yet we must be remember that any viral infection usually causes myocarditis.

Both of them had attended hospital but neither were admitted.

Both sent home and told to isolate etc. (separate incidents and separate families)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on September 18, 2020, 02:50:53 PM
https://api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/science/2020/09/millennials-generation-z-coronavirus-scapegoating-beach-parties-bars-inequality-cvd
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on September 18, 2020, 03:37:17 PM
Well the proof is there for all to see. Sweden got it sort of right, they had high care home mortality but other than that their experts appear to have got it right. Then again they have a good health care system.

Treating citizens like children, the snowflake media and the over reaction to the Italian debacle caused unnecessary lockdown for the fit a healthy in society, especially during the summer months. As a result the majority of people during the winter are now more vulnerable to catching and spreading the virus. I'm afraid it'll be a long winter when the thing ought to be nearly over.  Snowflakes win again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 18, 2020, 03:42:59 PM
Quote from: highorlow on September 18, 2020, 03:37:17 PM
Well the proof is there for all to see. Sweden got it sort of right, they had high care home mortality but other than that their experts appear to have got it right. Then again they have a good health care system.

Treating citizens like children, the snowflake media and the over reaction to the Italian debacle caused unnecessary lockdown for the fit a healthy in society, especially during the summer months. As a result the majority of people during the winter are now more vulnerable to catching and spreading the virus. I'm afraid it'll be a long winter when the thing ought to be nearly over.  Snowflakes win again.

There is no proof of anything, yet.

Like yourself I've more admiration of Sweden's approach than the rest of Europe.

But you're far, far too early to be proclaiming "victory".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on September 18, 2020, 03:47:42 PM
QuoteSweden also has fewer new daily infections than Norway and Denmark, its Nordic neighbours.

Just for the earlier poster. Nobody is point scoring, just stating and reporting facts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 18, 2020, 04:15:41 PM
If the virus was let rip, as a lot of internet "exeprts" seem to be suggesting, how would that affect:
i) the mental health of the population
ii) treatment/diagnoses of other illnesses
iii) the economy

?

Not to mention the actual toll caused by rampaging Covid itself
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 18, 2020, 04:29:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 18, 2020, 04:15:41 PM
If the virus was let rip, as a lot of internet "exeprts" seem to be suggesting, how would that affect:
i) the mental health of the population
ii) treatment/diagnoses of other illnesses
iii) the economy

?

Not to mention the actual toll caused by rampaging Covid itself

Nobody knows. Not even you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 18, 2020, 04:37:51 PM
Quote from: highorlow on September 18, 2020, 03:37:17 PM
Well the proof is there for all to see. Sweden got it sort of right, they had high care home mortality but other than that their experts appear to have got it right. Then again they have a good health care system.

Treating citizens like children, the snowflake media and the over reaction to the Italian debacle caused unnecessary lockdown for the fit a healthy in society, especially during the summer months. As a result the majority of people during the winter are now more vulnerable to catching and spreading the virus. I'm afraid it'll be a long winter when the thing ought to be nearly over.  Snowflakes win again.
Shouting "snowflakes" is not an argument

The most basic function of government is to protect its citizens

Situations such as a pandemic throw that function sharply into focus - any government which decides that the economy is the main concern, rather than public health and actual real lives, in the face of a pandemic of a new disease about which little is known, is quite clearly irresponsible

This is about basic morals

Nevertheless, let's have a look at a couple of key statistics - the two statistics that have been most used to justify Sweden's policy

Covid deaths per million:
Sweden: 580
Denmark: 110
Finland: 61
Norway: 49

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Economic decline in quarter 2 2020:
Sweden: 8.6%
Denmark: 7.4%
Norway: 7.1% (March to May)
Finland: 3.2%

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-sweden-gdp-falls-8pc-in-q2-worse-nordic-neighbors-2020-8?r=US&IR=T

Sweden failed



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 18, 2020, 04:42:30 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 18, 2020, 04:29:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 18, 2020, 04:15:41 PM
If the virus was let rip, as a lot of internet "exeprts" seem to be suggesting, how would that affect:
i) the mental health of the population
ii) treatment/diagnoses of other illnesses
iii) the economy

?

Not to mention the actual toll caused by rampaging Covid itself

Nobody knows. Not even you.
For somebody so opinionated you have a tendency to go strangely quiet when faced with questions you don't like

I guess that's the beauty of being an internet expert, you can sound off based on nothing while simultaneously having no responsibility whatsoever, and then go quiet when you feel like it

I wouldn't have thought these questions would even need a high degree of expertise to have a reasonably good guess at, especially that we now have six months of experience of seeing a pandemic evolve in real time
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on September 18, 2020, 04:48:17 PM
Quote from: highorlow on September 18, 2020, 03:47:42 PM
QuoteSweden also has fewer new daily infections than Norway and Denmark, its Nordic neighbours.

Just for the earlier poster. Nobody is point scoring, just stating and reporting facts.
If it came to point scoring you would be 1000s of points behind with your posts like this at the start of this thread.

Quote from: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 09:07:03 AM
It's reached it's peak or will over the next few days. So no horse to bolt.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 18, 2020, 04:50:39 PM
The anti-restrictions nutcases are losing it, assaulting Varadkar now

https://twitter.com/RadioCleary/status/1306964772412362753
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 18, 2020, 04:52:30 PM
Sid, once again. The major difference between us, exhibited quite clearly.

I don't pretend to know answers. All I know is that when someone (usually you) is determined to paint a grey issue as a black and white one, then they should be corrected.

Whereas you, you believe that you know everything, and that when your monster brain has settled into a belief pattern, that it is your duty to defend and protect that viewpoint at all costs.

——

I can't answers those questions. I made that clear. And my other point was, neither can you.

Stop pretending otherwise you complete f**king clown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 18, 2020, 05:01:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 18, 2020, 04:52:30 PM
Sid, once again. The major difference between us, exhibited quite clearly.

I don't pretend to know answers. All I know is that when someone (usually you) is determined to paint a grey issue as a black and white one, then they should be corrected.

Whereas you, you believe that you know everything, and that when your monster brain has settled into a belief pattern, that it is your duty to defend and protect that viewpoint at all costs.

——

I can't answers those questions. I made that clear. And my other point was, neither can you.

Stop pretending otherwise you complete f**king clown.

The questions I posed are very reasonable

If I wanted to read somebody who has no other aim other than to desperately try and discredit any objective truth, clearly has no interest in even finding out objective truth on anything, and sees the world entirely through straw men, I'd read Spiked Online or Sputnik

If you can't have a stab at even imagining what the consequences of a herd immunity strategy, so beloved of so many internet experts, might be, I'm not sure why you're even bothering to comment here

The phrase sometimes used by another poster on this forum - that it's good to keep an open mind but not so open that your brain falls out, often comes to mind when I read your posts



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on September 18, 2020, 05:13:22 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on September 18, 2020, 04:48:17 PM
Quote from: highorlow on September 18, 2020, 03:47:42 PM
QuoteSweden also has fewer new daily infections than Norway and Denmark, its Nordic neighbours.

Just for the earlier poster. Nobody is point scoring, just stating and reporting facts.
If it came to point scoring you would be 1000s of points behind with your posts like this at the start of this thread.

Quote from: highorlow on February 27, 2020, 09:07:03 AM
It's reached it's peak or will over the next few days. So no horse to bolt.

;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 18, 2020, 05:16:02 PM
Sid, you have absolutely no idea how things would have panned out had Covid been allowed to "let rip".

You unilaterally believe things would have been worse.

Yet Sweden's approach suggests it might have been the same - devastation in care homes, but much less deadly than expected in every other facet of society. And there's a word of headscratching going on about why Africa isn't just still standing, but was remarkably unaffected.

So forgive me for pointing out, yet again, that you can't claim to know the answers here. All you have are suspicions that you want to be true to prove how smart you are. But you are coming across as a blinkered fool.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 18, 2020, 05:17:58 PM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on September 18, 2020, 11:45:33 AM
"Otherwise, the population of 10 million was asked, rather than ordered, to respect physical distancing and work from home if possible, which it largely did."

How would people in Ireland etc react to being asked to not mix in pubs etc? It would've been carnage. We are a much more militant population than the Scandinavians I would suggest.
40% of households in Sweden are single person households

Only 23.5% of households in Eire were single person households as of 2016

I expect this statistic would have been a major driver of Sweden's policy as it enabled a much greater degree of physical distancing

But that policy still failed there, so it's perfectly reasonable to assume that it would have failed in a bigger way here

It seems clear in Ireland that there are two opposing pull forces - NPHET and the medical experts pulling for public health, and the business lobby pulling towards opening up - a large body of online commenting has been pulling increasingly heavily for opening up

But we now see what happens when non-experts gain too much influence

There is a clear link between public health and economic health - and they are complementary

Better public health means better economic health

Poorer public health means poorer economic health

Sadly, since the start of this pandemic, we have been consistently presented with a fake choice - public health versus economic health

It has been pushed relentlessly

But this binary choice was a lie, it was a fake

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 18, 2020, 05:19:28 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 18, 2020, 05:16:02 PM
Sid, you have absolutely no idea how things would have panned out had Covid been allowed to "let rip".

You unilaterally believe things would have been worse.

Yet Sweden's approach suggests it might have been the same - devastation in care homes, but much less deadly than expected in every other facet of society. And there's a word of headscratching going on about why Africa isn't just still standing, but was remarkably unaffected.

So forgive me for pointing out, yet again, that you can't claim to know the answers here. All you have are suspicions that you want to be true to prove how smart you are. But you are coming across as a blinkered fool.
Right, thanks for that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 18, 2020, 05:22:34 PM
Good lad.

Take a wee walk.

Come back tomorrow and start again.


You are nowhere, nowhere near as clever as you think you are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 18, 2020, 05:26:30 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 18, 2020, 05:22:34 PM
Good lad.

Take a wee walk.

Come back tomorrow and start again.


You are nowhere, nowhere near as clever as you think you are.
"Good lad"

"Take a wee walk"

This is top notch stuff you're offering here and it's really shown me

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 18, 2020, 05:29:29 PM
Level 3 restrictions applied to Dublin from midnight tonight for the next three weeks. How and why that wasn't done on Tuesday makes no sense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 18, 2020, 05:33:08 PM
I'm not offering or showing you anything.

All I'm doing, once again, is making it clear that regardless of how much sneering vitriol you put behind your posts, you do not have a f**king clue what's on going on with Covid.

Neither do I.

——

Do yourself a favour. Let it go for today.  This chain of thought you're in where Sweden is not suitable for comparison, just can't work. It's a country in Europe. You don't get to decide the rules.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 18, 2020, 05:38:13 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 18, 2020, 05:16:02 PM
Yet Sweden's approach suggests it might have been the same - devastation in care homes, but much less deadly than expected in every other facet of society. And there's a word of headscratching going on about why Africa isn't just still standing, but was remarkably unaffected.

While Africa has a young population there has to something genetic here as well, or perhaps previous exposure to some disease that provides some protection. South America has been ravaged by this virus.
It is clear that Bangaldeshis are genetically more likely to get this, for some reason, which partly explains some of the issue in northern England.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 18, 2020, 05:42:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 18, 2020, 05:33:08 PM
I'm not offering or showing you anything.

All I'm doing, once again, is making it clear that regardless of how much sneering vitriol you put behind your posts, you do not have a f**king clue what's on going on with Covid.

Neither do I.

——

Do yourself a favour. Let it go for today.  This chain of thought you're in where Sweden is not suitable for comparison, just can't work. It's a country in Europe. You don't get to decide the rules.

You've literally just made that up

It's quite delicious seeing the most sneering, vitriolic poster on the forum complain about "sneering vitriol"

Very Graham Linehan-esque

Also tremendous craic to see somebody who claims they nothing (while simultaneously adopting a know it all tone, oh the irony) about Covid tell somebody else that they know nothing

I mean if you know nothing about something, how on earth would you be in a position to tell anybody else that they know nothing based on what they've written

Professional contrarianism is a terrible thing, you'll be shouting "RTE IS the virus" next
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on September 18, 2020, 07:01:42 PM
When were the restaurants in Dublin reopened , how long are the schools opened & then put that together with when the cases have risen significantly, how can they think it's restaurants the problem lies ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 18, 2020, 07:07:58 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on September 18, 2020, 07:01:42 PM
When were the restaurants in Dublin reopened , how long are the schools opened & then put that together with when the cases have risen significantly, how can they think it's restaurants the problem lies ?

that is simplistic, cases have been rising since June, it is just that weekly increase gets more and more each week and a halt has to be called now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on September 18, 2020, 09:37:56 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-is-out-there-seeding-widely-and-things-will-get-worse-1.4357549

Case numbers started rising rapidly five weeks ago.

That increase is now a national trend, not just confined to Dublin.

Dublin, though, has an incidence three to five times higher than the rest of the country.

More older people are becoming infected; for example, the incidence among 65-74 year-olds, which fell to zero at one point over the summer, is now 23.6 cases per 100,000 population.

Case numbers are doubling every 10-14 days at current rates.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 18, 2020, 09:38:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 18, 2020, 07:07:58 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on September 18, 2020, 07:01:42 PM
When were the restaurants in Dublin reopened , how long are the schools opened & then put that together with when the cases have risen significantly, how can they think it’s restaurants the problem lies ?

that is simplistic, cases have been rising since June, it is just that weekly increase gets more and more each week and a halt has to be called now.

June cases decreased from 112 cases one week to under 70 for the last week of June. Seven day average is now 247 cases a day.

End of July early August is when the cases started to rise here again, the clusters in meat factories mostly started the rise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 18, 2020, 10:09:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 18, 2020, 09:37:56 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-is-out-there-seeding-widely-and-things-will-get-worse-1.4357549

Case numbers started rising rapidly five weeks ago.

That increase is now a national trend, not just confined to Dublin.

Dublin, though, has an incidence three to five times higher than the rest of the country.

More older people are becoming infected; for example, the incidence among 65-74 year-olds, which fell to zero at one point over the summer, is now 23.6 cases per 100,000 population.

Case numbers are doubling every 10-14 days at current rates.

From a letter to The Irish Times on Wednesday:

Quotehttps://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/covid-19-is-far-more-dangerous-than-flu-1.4354743

Sir, – The HSE has rejected the claims of Dr Martin Feeley (clinical director of the Dublin Midlands Hospital Group) that Covid-19 is less serious than the annual flu and that people at low risk of the virus should be allowed to be exposed to it, which would enable the country to develop herd immunity ("HSE rejects senior doctor's comments Covid-19 is 'less severe' than annual flu", News, September 12th).

We fully support the HSE's rejection of Dr Feeley's opinions.

When it comes to Covid-19, we must where possible be led by data. On average, seasonal flu strains kill about 0.1 per cent of people who become infected. Current data indicates that Covid-19 is substantially more dangerous than flu. Dr Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in the US, has given a death rate 10 times that of seasonal flu.

Regarding herd immunity, no country has explicitly advocated this approach because of the dangers it will entail. Recent seroprevalence studies indicate that 1.7 per cent of the Irish population has been infected with Sars-CoV-2 and there have been 1,784 deaths and many survivors with severe long-term effects of Covid-19. It has been estimated that at least 70 per cent of the population need to be infected (or immunised with a highly effective vaccine) to reach the critical threshold for herd immunity. Therefore, herd immunity through infection will come at price of substantially more morbidity and mortality from Covid-19 in the Irish population.

It would also be virtually impossible to protect vulnerable people, since a large proportion, as many as one in three, of the Irish population are in a high-risk group. Apart from older people, this includes those with heart disease, diabetes and obesity. Widespread infection would also likely give rise to people with debilitating persistent symptoms.

Since he is advocating for herd immunity, can Dr Feeley give an upper limit of the likely number of deaths that would be acceptable if a herd immunity approach were to be taken?

We are in a most important phase of the Covid-19 pandemic. It is essential that commentators base their statements on current science as best they can. Otherwise they are in danger of misleading the general public or providing support for those who support disinformation for political ends. – Yours, etc,

LUKE O'NEILL, PhD

MRIA FRS;

DAVID McCONNELL,

PhD, MRIA;

KINGSTON MILLS,

PhD, MRIA;

TOMÁS RYAN, PhD

Trinity College Dublin,

Dublin 2.

Let's do some maths

There are 4.8 million people in the saorstát

1.7% of that is 81,600 - that's how many the experts above think have got Covid to date

We've had 1,784 deaths as of the other day

1,784 as a percentage of 81,600 is 2.18% of a death rate for those infected

70% of 4.8 million = 3.36 million - that's the figure you'd need to be infected for herd immunity, in theory

2.18% of 3.36 million = 73,248

So under the herd immunity the internet experts want you could be looking at a death toll of 73k

Even under more generous assumptions, ie, a death rate of 1%, or even 0.5%, you're looking at a pretty monstrous toll under this crazy plan

None of this takes a big brain, it's basic maths

And we don't even know whether herd immunity exists - it seems that most experts assume immunity of maybe 2 to 3 years - but we don't yet know for sure - and there have now been documented cases of re-infection, even if extremely rare so far

If 1.7% of the population has so far been infected, you'll be waiting a long, long time to reach 70% - we're now over six months into this thing

Let's be generous and assume for the purposes of argument 10% of the population has been infected - you'll still be waiting a long time to reach 70% - unless you let the virus rip - and then you overwhelm the health system and the death rate goes way up

Herd immunity as an idea is hare brained, but the internet experts and libertarian zealots seem to like it

Libertarianism as an idea is also hare brained and beloved of internet experts, so these ideas go nicely together, they tend to come as a pair






Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 19, 2020, 12:59:52 PM
THis guy really gets the "we are all in it together" team spirit.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/574875/limerick-man-awaiting-swab-results-played-soccer-tested-positive-for-covid-19.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 20, 2020, 05:48:12 PM
End the week with high daily case number of 396 and 241 of those cases in Dublin.

The weekly numbers for the ROI

Cases 1,982 (668 more than last week)

Deaths reported  10 (two more than last week)

Tests carried out in the last 7 days - 83,390

82 in hospital and 17 in ICU.

Hopefully things improve for the week ahead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 20, 2020, 06:57:36 PM
What is Boris plotting now :(

I hope this clown doesn't go full lockdown again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 20, 2020, 07:22:05 PM
396 cases 241 in Dublin.
A definite problem and no doubt they knew this was coming
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 20, 2020, 08:29:19 PM
Taoiseach Martin has instructed the people to count the number of close contacts they've had this week, and then try to halve that number for the coming week

I'm sure this will be a topic of discussion in the pubs tomorrow as they re-open for the first time since March
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on September 20, 2020, 10:22:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 18, 2020, 10:09:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 18, 2020, 09:37:56 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-is-out-there-seeding-widely-and-things-will-get-worse-1.4357549

Case numbers started rising rapidly five weeks ago.

That increase is now a national trend, not just confined to Dublin.

Dublin, though, has an incidence three to five times higher than the rest of the country.

More older people are becoming infected; for example, the incidence among 65-74 year-olds, which fell to zero at one point over the summer, is now 23.6 cases per 100,000 population.

Case numbers are doubling every 10-14 days at current rates.

From a letter to The Irish Times on Wednesday:

Quotehttps://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/covid-19-is-far-more-dangerous-than-flu-1.4354743

Sir, – The HSE has rejected the claims of Dr Martin Feeley (clinical director of the Dublin Midlands Hospital Group) that Covid-19 is less serious than the annual flu and that people at low risk of the virus should be allowed to be exposed to it, which would enable the country to develop herd immunity ("HSE rejects senior doctor's comments Covid-19 is 'less severe' than annual flu", News, September 12th).

We fully support the HSE's rejection of Dr Feeley's opinions.

When it comes to Covid-19, we must where possible be led by data. On average, seasonal flu strains kill about 0.1 per cent of people who become infected. Current data indicates that Covid-19 is substantially more dangerous than flu. Dr Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in the US, has given a death rate 10 times that of seasonal flu.

Regarding herd immunity, no country has explicitly advocated this approach because of the dangers it will entail. Recent seroprevalence studies indicate that 1.7 per cent of the Irish population has been infected with Sars-CoV-2 and there have been 1,784 deaths and many survivors with severe long-term effects of Covid-19. It has been estimated that at least 70 per cent of the population need to be infected (or immunised with a highly effective vaccine) to reach the critical threshold for herd immunity. Therefore, herd immunity through infection will come at price of substantially more morbidity and mortality from Covid-19 in the Irish population.

It would also be virtually impossible to protect vulnerable people, since a large proportion, as many as one in three, of the Irish population are in a high-risk group. Apart from older people, this includes those with heart disease, diabetes and obesity. Widespread infection would also likely give rise to people with debilitating persistent symptoms.

Since he is advocating for herd immunity, can Dr Feeley give an upper limit of the likely number of deaths that would be acceptable if a herd immunity approach were to be taken?

We are in a most important phase of the Covid-19 pandemic. It is essential that commentators base their statements on current science as best they can. Otherwise they are in danger of misleading the general public or providing support for those who support disinformation for political ends. – Yours, etc,

LUKE O'NEILL, PhD

MRIA FRS;

DAVID McCONNELL,

PhD, MRIA;

KINGSTON MILLS,

PhD, MRIA;

TOMÁS RYAN, PhD

Trinity College Dublin,

Dublin 2.

Let's do some maths

There are 4.8 million people in the saorstát

1.7% of that is 81,600 - that's how many the experts above think have got Covid to date

We've had 1,784 deaths as of the other day

1,784 as a percentage of 81,600 is 2.18% of a death rate for those infected

70% of 4.8 million = 3.36 million - that's the figure you'd need to be infected for herd immunity, in theory

2.18% of 3.36 million = 73,248

So under the herd immunity the internet experts want you could be looking at a death toll of 73k

Even under more generous assumptions, ie, a death rate of 1%, or even 0.5%, you're looking at a pretty monstrous toll under this crazy plan

None of this takes a big brain, it's basic maths

And we don't even know whether herd immunity exists - it seems that most experts assume immunity of maybe 2 to 3 years - but we don't yet know for sure - and there have now been documented cases of re-infection, even if extremely rare so far

If 1.7% of the population has so far been infected, you'll be waiting a long, long time to reach 70% - we're now over six months into this thing

Let's be generous and assume for the purposes of argument 10% of the population has been infected - you'll still be waiting a long time to reach 70% - unless you let the virus rip - and then you overwhelm the health system and the death rate goes way up

Herd immunity as an idea is hare brained, but the internet experts and libertarian zealots seem to like it

Libertarianism as an idea is also hare brained and beloved of internet experts, so these ideas go nicely together, they tend to come as a pair

The true death rate is between 0.01 and 0.03% and as we get better at treating Covid it will probably move towards the 0.01% and lower.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 20, 2020, 11:00:27 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 20, 2020, 10:22:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 18, 2020, 10:09:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 18, 2020, 09:37:56 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-is-out-there-seeding-widely-and-things-will-get-worse-1.4357549

Case numbers started rising rapidly five weeks ago.

That increase is now a national trend, not just confined to Dublin.

Dublin, though, has an incidence three to five times higher than the rest of the country.

More older people are becoming infected; for example, the incidence among 65-74 year-olds, which fell to zero at one point over the summer, is now 23.6 cases per 100,000 population.

Case numbers are doubling every 10-14 days at current rates.

From a letter to The Irish Times on Wednesday:

Quotehttps://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/covid-19-is-far-more-dangerous-than-flu-1.4354743

Sir, – The HSE has rejected the claims of Dr Martin Feeley (clinical director of the Dublin Midlands Hospital Group) that Covid-19 is less serious than the annual flu and that people at low risk of the virus should be allowed to be exposed to it, which would enable the country to develop herd immunity ("HSE rejects senior doctor's comments Covid-19 is 'less severe' than annual flu", News, September 12th).

We fully support the HSE's rejection of Dr Feeley's opinions.

When it comes to Covid-19, we must where possible be led by data. On average, seasonal flu strains kill about 0.1 per cent of people who become infected. Current data indicates that Covid-19 is substantially more dangerous than flu. Dr Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in the US, has given a death rate 10 times that of seasonal flu.

Regarding herd immunity, no country has explicitly advocated this approach because of the dangers it will entail. Recent seroprevalence studies indicate that 1.7 per cent of the Irish population has been infected with Sars-CoV-2 and there have been 1,784 deaths and many survivors with severe long-term effects of Covid-19. It has been estimated that at least 70 per cent of the population need to be infected (or immunised with a highly effective vaccine) to reach the critical threshold for herd immunity. Therefore, herd immunity through infection will come at price of substantially more morbidity and mortality from Covid-19 in the Irish population.

It would also be virtually impossible to protect vulnerable people, since a large proportion, as many as one in three, of the Irish population are in a high-risk group. Apart from older people, this includes those with heart disease, diabetes and obesity. Widespread infection would also likely give rise to people with debilitating persistent symptoms.

Since he is advocating for herd immunity, can Dr Feeley give an upper limit of the likely number of deaths that would be acceptable if a herd immunity approach were to be taken?

We are in a most important phase of the Covid-19 pandemic. It is essential that commentators base their statements on current science as best they can. Otherwise they are in danger of misleading the general public or providing support for those who support disinformation for political ends. – Yours, etc,

LUKE O'NEILL, PhD

MRIA FRS;

DAVID McCONNELL,

PhD, MRIA;

KINGSTON MILLS,

PhD, MRIA;

TOMÁS RYAN, PhD

Trinity College Dublin,

Dublin 2.

Let's do some maths

There are 4.8 million people in the saorstát

1.7% of that is 81,600 - that's how many the experts above think have got Covid to date

We've had 1,784 deaths as of the other day

1,784 as a percentage of 81,600 is 2.18% of a death rate for those infected

70% of 4.8 million = 3.36 million - that's the figure you'd need to be infected for herd immunity, in theory

2.18% of 3.36 million = 73,248

So under the herd immunity the internet experts want you could be looking at a death toll of 73k

Even under more generous assumptions, ie, a death rate of 1%, or even 0.5%, you're looking at a pretty monstrous toll under this crazy plan

None of this takes a big brain, it's basic maths

And we don't even know whether herd immunity exists - it seems that most experts assume immunity of maybe 2 to 3 years - but we don't yet know for sure - and there have now been documented cases of re-infection, even if extremely rare so far

If 1.7% of the population has so far been infected, you'll be waiting a long, long time to reach 70% - we're now over six months into this thing

Let's be generous and assume for the purposes of argument 10% of the population has been infected - you'll still be waiting a long time to reach 70% - unless you let the virus rip - and then you overwhelm the health system and the death rate goes way up

Herd immunity as an idea is hare brained, but the internet experts and libertarian zealots seem to like it

Libertarianism as an idea is also hare brained and beloved of internet experts, so these ideas go nicely together, they tend to come as a pair

The true death rate is between 0.01 and 0.03% and as we get better at treating Covid it will probably move towards the 0.01% and lower.
What's your evidence?

Seasonal flu death rate is typically around 0.1%, which is ten times greater than 0.01%

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on September 20, 2020, 11:31:31 PM
Go to worldometer corona stats. Take the countries that have tested >50% of the population. Remove the countries with small populations which removes the anomalies of small groups.

Or look at at countries who have tested pretty much every in contact and have a large sample size. South Korea is a good example. Only one I really know. Then divide their Deaths by cases to get the fatality rate.

Do it for the top 10 countries in those parameters and you'll consistently get a fatality rate between 0.05 and 0.01%.

Using uk, Irish or America stats to figure case fatality is really worthless because there's such a large population of untested positives.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 20, 2020, 11:56:59 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 20, 2020, 11:31:31 PM
Go to worldometer corona stats. Take the countries that have tested >50% of the population. Remove the countries with small populations which removes the anomalies of small groups.

Or look at at countries who have tested pretty much every in contact and have a large sample size. South Korea is a good example. Only one I really know. Then divide their Deaths by cases to get the fatality rate.

Do it for the top 10 countries in those parameters and you'll consistently get a fatality rate between 0.05 and 0.01%.

Using uk, Irish or America stats to figure case fatality is really worthless because there's such a large population of untested positives.

Your approach has merit but your sums are a bit off,
South Korea
22,975    cases
383 deaths
fatality rate 1.6%

Your comments about the US or UK have validity as a lot of people died in April when testing was well short, both are now testing a lot more. Testing in Ireland feel short too, but we always tested people with symptoms even if they did not go to hospital.

The Asian country you wanted for your point was Singapore
Singapore
Cases 57,576
Deaths: 27
fatality rate 0.05%

Covid never got going in the native Singapore population, although there were some deaths, the cases were among immigrants who were typically in their 20s and in good shape (or the would not have got in).




Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 21, 2020, 12:09:37 AM
Quote from: trileacman on September 20, 2020, 11:31:31 PM
Go to worldometer corona stats. Take the countries that have tested >50% of the population. Remove the countries with small populations which removes the anomalies of small groups.

Or look at at countries who have tested pretty much every in contact and have a large sample size. South Korea is a good example. Only one I really know. Then divide their Deaths by cases to get the fatality rate.

Do it for the top 10 countries in those parameters and you'll consistently get a fatality rate between 0.05 and 0.01%.

Using uk, Irish or America stats to figure case fatality is really worthless because there's such a large population of untested positives.
You're doing the maths wrong

According to Worldometers, South Korea has had 22,975 cases and 383 deaths - that's a case fatality rate of 1.66%

The infection fatality rate is lower because you won't catch every infection - although in South Korea they have have done a much better job than almost everybody else, certainly far better than Ireland

Various European countries have done seroprevalence tests and in each case, a low, single figure percentage of the population is indicated to have had the virus

In Ireland it was 1.7%

I had a look at the source and that study was carried out up to July, so let's say it's now around 2.5%, just for argument - and that's a generous assumption - it's nearly four times the recorded case number of 32,933

2.5% of 4.8 million is 120k

1,792 people have died in Ireland, so working off 120k infected that would be an infection fatality rate of 1.49%

Also, there is no true fatality rate, because the fatality rate will inevitably be influenced by what sort of treatment people can receive

The more people infected, the more cases there are, the more difficult it becomes for hospitals to cope, not just as regards Covid, but as regards every other illness and condition

If so many people were to get infected that the hospitals couldn't cope, that would be upward push factor as regards the death rate - though with better treatment available now than in March and April (as long as hospitals aren't overflowing and people can actually get into hospital), that would be somewhat of a downward pull factor








Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on September 21, 2020, 12:20:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 21, 2020, 12:09:37 AM
Quote from: trileacman on September 20, 2020, 11:31:31 PM
Go to worldometer corona stats. Take the countries that have tested >50% of the population. Remove the countries with small populations which removes the anomalies of small groups.

Or look at at countries who have tested pretty much every in contact and have a large sample size. South Korea is a good example. Only one I really know. Then divide their Deaths by cases to get the fatality rate.

Do it for the top 10 countries in those parameters and you'll consistently get a fatality rate between 0.05 and 0.01%.

Using uk, Irish or America stats to figure case fatality is really worthless because there's such a large population of untested positives.
You're doing the maths wrong

According to Worldometers, South Korea has had 22,975 cases and 383 deaths - that's a case fatality rate of 1.66%

The infection fatality rate is lower because you won't catch every infection - although in South Korea they have have done a much better job than almost everybody else, certainly far better than Ireland

Various European countries have done seroprevalence tests and in each case, a low, single figure percentage of the population is indicated to have had the virus

In Ireland it was 1.7%

I had a look at the source and that study was carried out up to July, so let's say it's now around 2.5%, just for argument - and that's a generous assumption - it's nearly four times the recorded case number of 32,933

2.5% of 4.8 million is 120k

1,792 people have died in Ireland, so working off 120k infected that would be an infection fatality rate of 1.49%

Also, there is no true fatality rate, because the fatality rate will inevitably be influenced by what sort of treatment people can receive

The more people infected, the more cases there are, the more difficult it becomes for hospitals to cope, not just as regards Covid, but as regards every other illness and condition

If so many people were to get infected that the hospitals couldn't cope, that would be upward push factor as regards the death rate - though with better treatment available now than in March and April (as long as hospitals aren't overflowing and people can actually get into hospital), that would be somewhat of a downward pull factor

Sid is correct here
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 21, 2020, 12:32:22 AM
When they did post hoc antibody tests in New York the fatality rate was about 0.7% . Now thing were a bit out of control there, if you don't let things out of control the fatality rate would be 0.4-0.5%. You'd be talking 20,000 dead on this island if you didn't act.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 21, 2020, 07:27:16 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 21, 2020, 12:32:22 AM
When they did post hoc antibody tests in New York the fatality rate was about 0.7% . Now thing were a bit out of control there, if you don't let things out of control the fatality rate would be 0.4-0.5%. You'd be talking 20,000 dead on this island if you didn't act.

Nice random number plucking skills.

Any chance that next time you can pull one out that doesn't have doomsday undertones?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on September 21, 2020, 08:24:27 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/mark-paul-government-faces-dilemma-on-which-businesses-to-save-1.4357541

Mark Paul: Government faces dilemma on which businesses to save

Central Bank governor warns Government to be careful with taxpayer cash
Fri, Sep 18, 2020


The Government could have taken the sensible decision to allow wet pubs to safely trade long before it did



Sometimes it takes an outsider to point to issues that, deep down, we suspect are there but ignore. Gabriel Makhlouf, governor of the Central Bank of Ireland, is a mix of British, Cypriot, Greek and Egyptian. If he was Irish, he might have been less willing to suggest to the Government – as he did in a letter released this week – that it may need to consider standing back to allow some Irish SMEs to go bust.

Makhlouf hit upon an interesting moral dilemma that is likely to hit ministers square between the eyes before too long: the extent to which precious taxpayers' resources should support businesses that may be unviable in the medium term due to social distancing. Makhlouf didn't mention pubs and other hospitality businesses specifically, but his words suggested they were in his mind.

The question of whether or not the State should save pubs and other businesses is a moral one, as much as it is fiscal, because what happened to them in the pandemic is not their fault. They are totally innocent, with some devastated for six months by a State closure order that persisted for longer than it ought to have. Normally, the State should strive to protect and sustain the innocent.

But, in his September 3rd letter to Minister for Finance Paschal Donohoe, Makhlouf warns that if such businesses are going to be unviable for a long time anyway barring an end to the pandemic, scarce taxpayer cash might be better spent elsewhere. It is a hard-nosed, clinical way of looking at things. That is the governor's job.

He has also been in Ireland for long enough by now to understand that these kinds of businesses are a part of the social fabric, perhaps even the identity, of the nation. In particular, pubs in Ireland mean far more to society here than pubs do in Cyprus. Weighing up this issue is more than a simple balance sheet exercise, given the social consequences. I do not envy those faced with the task.

But like many of the dilemmas currently facing this most skittish of governments, the problem over what to do with the traumatised hospitality industry is a self-made one.

It has previously been argued on these pages that it was immoral for the State to simply stand by and watch, for example, pubs go bust, while doing nothing to help. There are two ways it could have assisted them. It could have picked up the tab for their closure in the form of more grants, although that sort of corporate welfare is not ideal. Or it could have taken the sensible decision to allow them to safely trade. For far too long, it dithered and chose to do neither of the above.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 21, 2020, 10:06:12 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 21, 2020, 07:27:16 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 21, 2020, 12:32:22 AM
When they did post hoc antibody tests in New York the fatality rate was about 0.7% . Now thing were a bit out of control there, if you don't let things out of control the fatality rate would be 0.4-0.5%. You'd be talking 20,000 dead on this island if you didn't act.

Nice random number plucking skills.

Any chance that next time you can pull one out that doesn't have doomsday undertones?

Random numbers are common enough in this thread, but I quoted quoted a scientific study, it says what it says. If you feel that I am wrong then refute my point rather than complaining that the answer doesn't suit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 21, 2020, 10:37:50 AM
If I'm not feeling well should I go to Wobbler or other Gaaboarders, "Karen" or the Doctor???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 21, 2020, 11:00:40 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 21, 2020, 10:06:12 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 21, 2020, 07:27:16 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 21, 2020, 12:32:22 AM
When they did post hoc antibody tests in New York the fatality rate was about 0.7% . Now thing were a bit out of control there, if you don't let things out of control the fatality rate would be 0.4-0.5%. You'd be talking 20,000 dead on this island if you didn't act.

Nice random number plucking skills.

Any chance that next time you can pull one out that doesn't have doomsday undertones?

Random numbers are common enough in this thread, but I quoted quoted a scientific study, it says what it says. If you feel that I am wrong then refute my point rather than complaining that the answer doesn't suit.

In my opinion, you have not quoted a scientific study, so much as have spun some of a scientific study's numbers to suit an agenda.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 21, 2020, 11:21:39 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 21, 2020, 11:00:40 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 21, 2020, 10:06:12 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 21, 2020, 07:27:16 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 21, 2020, 12:32:22 AM
When they did post hoc antibody tests in New York the fatality rate was about 0.7% . Now thing were a bit out of control there, if you don't let things out of control the fatality rate would be 0.4-0.5%. You'd be talking 20,000 dead on this island if you didn't act.

Nice random number plucking skills.

Any chance that next time you can pull one out that doesn't have doomsday undertones?

Random numbers are common enough in this thread, but I quoted quoted a scientific study, it says what it says. If you feel that I am wrong then refute my point rather than complaining that the answer doesn't suit.

In my opinion, you have not quoted a scientific study, so much as have spun some of a scientific study's numbers to suit an agenda.

Other posts started discussion of this fatality thing, I was merely contributing to that discussion with an actual study.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 21, 2020, 11:33:14 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 21, 2020, 10:37:50 AM
If I'm not feeling well should I go to Wobbler or other Gaaboarders, "Karen" or the Doctor???
All illness is a con perpetrated by Big Medicine

They have a vested interest that people think they're ill, if nobody thought they were ill, Big Medicine would all be out of a job

I'm trying to "think" like the Wobbler here

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 21, 2020, 11:55:54 AM
The local undertakers would then have a massive increase in business.
Support your local undertaker!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 21, 2020, 12:38:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 21, 2020, 11:33:14 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 21, 2020, 10:37:50 AM
If I'm not feeling well should I go to Wobbler or other Gaaboarders, "Karen" or the Doctor???
All illness is a con perpetrated by Big Medicine

They have a vested interest that people think they're ill, if nobody thought they were ill, Big Medicine would all be out of a job

I'm trying to "think" like the Wobbler here

Sid I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

There doesn't have to be a deep-seated reason why things are the way they are.

The recurring picture since March is that governments are simultaneously confused at what to do, and petrified of making the wrong move.

And I don't blame them either: if the most important epidemiologists on earth are urging somewhere between clear caution and complete shutdowns, then it would take an exceptionally brave (stupid?) politician to ignore their advice.

But implementing that advice is an absolute minefield and the limbs of governments have been shattered to pieces.

I don't trust them to make the right decisions here, as there are no right decisions.

——-

And on a related note, I don't believe the Covid strain that is currently circulating Ireland at a rapid pace, is even remotely as dangerous as the global killer strain we were promised at the start of the year.  There is literally no evidence to suggest that this virus has any (short term) effects on the majority of people it encounters.

——

Is that clear enough?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 21, 2020, 02:46:45 PM
125 new cases of Coronavirus in Northern Ireland, 1,014 cases recorded during the past 7 days.

Co Louth has seen 120 cases in past fortnight compared to 18 in previous two weeks
Donegal has seen 102 cases in the past fortnight, compared to 18 in the previous period.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 21, 2020, 02:52:10 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 21, 2020, 12:38:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 21, 2020, 11:33:14 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 21, 2020, 10:37:50 AM
If I'm not feeling well should I go to Wobbler or other Gaaboarders, "Karen" or the Doctor???
All illness is a con perpetrated by Big Medicine

They have a vested interest that people think they're ill, if nobody thought they were ill, Big Medicine would all be out of a job

I'm trying to "think" like the Wobbler here

Sid I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

There doesn't have to be a deep-seated reason why things are the way they are.

The recurring picture since March is that governments are simultaneously confused at what to do, and petrified of making the wrong move.

And I don't blame them either: if the most important epidemiologists on earth are urging somewhere between clear caution and complete shutdowns, then it would take an exceptionally brave (stupid?) politician to ignore their advice.

But implementing that advice is an absolute minefield and the limbs of governments have been shattered to pieces.

I don't trust them to make the right decisions here, as there are no right decisions.

——-

And on a related note, I don't believe the Covid strain that is currently circulating Ireland at a rapid pace, is even remotely as dangerous as the global killer strain we were promised at the start of the year.  There is literally no evidence to suggest that this virus has any (short term) effects on the majority of people it encounters.

——

Is that clear enough?
I don't know whether you're an actual conspiracy theorist, but what I do know is that you have a worldview that is permeated so much by total and utter cynicism about everything that there is essentially no difference between you and a conspiracy theorist - and that makes discussion with you impossible

Of course you believe there are no right decisions - your whole worldview is based on the notion that there is no right anything, that all knowledge is junk

This is the narrative pushed by Russia and pro-Russian trolls and it's the narrative that has the world in the state it's in at the moment

The virus that is circulating around Ireland is the same virus that has been circulating since March

It is a global kiiller and has been proven to be such, despite your ultra-cynical protestations
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 21, 2020, 02:55:48 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 21, 2020, 12:38:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 21, 2020, 11:33:14 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 21, 2020, 10:37:50 AM
If I'm not feeling well should I go to Wobbler or other Gaaboarders, "Karen" or the Doctor???
All illness is a con perpetrated by Big Medicine

They have a vested interest that people think they're ill, if nobody thought they were ill, Big Medicine would all be out of a job

I'm trying to "think" like the Wobbler here

Sid I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

There doesn't have to be a deep-seated reason why things are the way they are.

The recurring picture since March is that governments are simultaneously confused at what to do, and petrified of making the wrong move.

And I don't blame them either: if the most important epidemiologists on earth are urging somewhere between clear caution and complete shutdowns, then it would take an exceptionally brave (stupid?) politician to ignore their advice.

But implementing that advice is an absolute minefield and the limbs of governments have been shattered to pieces.

I don't trust them to make the right decisions here, as there are no right decisions.

——-

And on a related note, I don't believe the Covid strain that is currently circulating Ireland at a rapid pace, is even remotely as dangerous as the global killer strain we were promised at the start of the year.  There is literally no evidence to suggest that this virus has any (short term) effects on the majority of people it encounters.

——

Is that clear enough?
Read one of the government scientists saying that the strain is the same, it just appears weaker as the age profile of the positive results is now much lower and sees more people survive it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hereiam on September 21, 2020, 03:48:40 PM
Tony I think its more to do with the doctors & nurses in the hospitals having a better idea of treating this virus now whereas before they were just putting everyone onto a ventilator which lowers your chances of a recovery.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 21, 2020, 04:02:34 PM
HereIAm would that that theory not need a rise (or at least some sort of constant) in terms of hospital admissions to ring true? I'm not dismissing the improvements in knowledge by the way - medical staff will intuitively build a repertoire of techniques over time. But the vast majority of people who contract the virus seem to have little need for medical help.


Tony Baloney, the government scientist should know more about this than me. But if it actually is the same strain, then would that not mean that the original strain was just not as potent as we were forewarned?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on September 21, 2020, 07:44:49 PM
There is reason to believe that the virus would lose potency over time. As the virus evolves the less pathogenic versions of it will spread more readily than the highly pathogenic versions. If it's quickly striking down it's host then they're less likely to spread the contagion than someone going about their business as usual.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 21, 2020, 09:20:49 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 21, 2020, 07:44:49 PM
There is reason to believe that the virus would lose potency over time. As the virus evolves the less pathogenic versions of it will spread more readily than the highly pathogenic versions. If it's quickly striking down it's host then they're less likely to spread the contagion than someone going about their business as usual.

While this is true, Coronaviruses mutate much less than flu viruses, so this is not going to make much difference in the short term.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on September 22, 2020, 12:25:11 PM
Why isn't Sweden on the green list yet? With a 10mil population they have now less people in ICU than we have. It's not proven yet and the poster police here don't allow me to comment (they just dig up old posts like angry women when I do comment) but it really does appear that the smart lock down of Sweden will work, they have not and are careful not to sing victory (unlike the Kiwi's) but the daily evidence appears to be proving them correct.

It will be interesting to see the science and evidence in a year or so as to the most favorable lockdown time for future policy and if the policy of locking young healthy people in their houses and flats was the incorrect strategy instead of just having a smart lockdown aka the Swedes and allowing kids in school etc. One also assumes the Swedish economy will bounce back quicker.

https://www.dfa.ie/travel/travel-advice/a-z-list-of-countries/sweden/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 22, 2020, 12:33:05 PM
How many cases overall in Sweden?
How many deaths ?
How many cases last week?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on September 22, 2020, 12:37:49 PM
 The Swedish deaths in the springtime were inflated by mistakes they made in putting infected patients into nursing homes. As ours were.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on September 22, 2020, 12:39:01 PM
How many cases overall in Sweden? No one knows exactly but the worldometers graph chart reports 88237
How many deaths ? 5 deaths out of 10mil pop reported on 18th Sept graph
How many cases last week? No one knows exactly but the worldometers graph chart reports 227 cases on the 17th Sept - i don't know if this is one day

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 22, 2020, 12:54:21 PM
So could we have had the smart lock down?

Shut airports/ports down for 3 weeks
Lockdown business work for 3 weeks
Essential travel only, 4 mile only
Close schools 3 weeks
Wearing of masks mandatory in public spaces


I'm sure sure there are other things I've forgotten, but if we do the likes of this when we actually have a big spike (which we are having) would it not be better in the long run and better for the economy?

Then analyze the data after that period to see if there are tweaks to be added or lessened

Its really stating to f**k me off with the:

Can't meet up with anyone but kids from all households can go to school.
Can't drink after 10pm in a pub as they don't want people staying out late, but can sit in it from 12pm through to 10pm
Can't meet close friends in the house but can meet them at diner or now in the pub?
Can't go to my parents house, but I can take them to hospital appointments and other medical appointments




Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 22, 2020, 12:58:22 PM
MR2 I'd be thinking that, apart from controlling the initial surge and not overwhelming the health service, then all of the above would have been pointless had we simply reopened the corridors to England/France/Spain/Portugal over the summer. We'd still be where we are now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on September 22, 2020, 01:13:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 22, 2020, 12:54:21 PM
So could we have had the smart lock down?

Shut airports/ports down for 3 weeks
Lockdown business work for 3 weeks
Essential travel only, 4 mile only
Close schools 3 weeks
Wearing of masks mandatory in public spaces


Apart from the masks bit, we tried pretty much all of that in April and May and it pretty much failed.

If you're talking about locking down essential businesses, really bad things like food shortages start to happen even within 3 weeks. Also for example what happens farms and cows if there's no dairy open to take and process their milk?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 22, 2020, 01:13:50 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 22, 2020, 12:58:22 PM
MR2 I'd be thinking that, apart from controlling the initial surge and not overwhelming the health service, then all of the above would have been pointless had we simply reopened the corridors to England/France/Spain/Portugal over the summer. We'd still be where we are now.

Getting frustrating at the lack of  a joined up approach that would suit this little corner of Western Europe, we could have been done with this or at the very worst suffered a month of lockdown
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 22, 2020, 01:18:59 PM
Quote from: five points on September 22, 2020, 01:13:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 22, 2020, 12:54:21 PM
So could we have had the smart lock down?

Shut airports/ports down for 3 weeks
Lockdown business work for 3 weeks
Essential travel only, 4 mile only
Close schools 3 weeks
Wearing of masks mandatory in public spaces


Apart from the masks bit, we pretty tried all that in April and May and it pretty much failed.

If you're talking about locking down essential businesses, really bad things like food shortages start to happen even within 3 weeks. Also for example what happens farms and cows if there's no dairy open to take and process their milk?

Airports were open and we had travel between Belfast and London, when London was the worst place in Europe.. Essential business i didn't put on for obvious reasons.

Ports were also open

I thought the numbers were very low in during May, the numbers had fallen and the nightgale hospitals hadn't even been used.

We only needed to close off the island for a period of time to bring the numbers down, and contain it.

If there is a dangerous second wave with a worse strain that before, will they do that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 22, 2020, 01:21:47 PM
Lockdowns are designed to bring down the number of infections where they are beginning to spread out of control

Lockdowns work, the evidence is overwhelming, there is no place where they have not worked, Victoria is the latest example

But lockdowns are not a long term solution

It seems obvious to me that the real problem is the lack of functioning test, trace and isolate systems

That was supposed to be the solution, but it hasn't happened in most places - which given the systematic running down of government capacity all over the western world and the obsession with inefficient, wasteful outsourcing to the private sector, is hardly a surprise

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 22, 2020, 01:25:35 PM
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/


8,800 cases per million
560 deaths per million.
26 Co figures :-
C.6,000
C.350
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 22, 2020, 02:15:26 PM
Quote from: five points on September 22, 2020, 12:37:49 PM
The Swedish deaths in the springtime were inflated by mistakes they made in putting infected patients into nursing homes. As ours were.

Regardless of mistakes (no country hasn't made them) Their death toll is higher than reported as in March, April many died in Sweden without ever getting tested. ROI continues to report possible, probably deaths, one of the few countries who report in that manner.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 22, 2020, 02:25:07 PM
Was reading that the Chinese rolled out 11 million tests in one burst in Wuhan and as a result managed to get the whole thing back to relative normality.

I keep yapping they have no interest in spending that type of money here (or effort)....but Christ wouldn't it help?

Immediate mass testing, you are fine....work away. If you have covid or whatever the tests pick up....look, sorry your going to have to isolate here for 2 weeks.

Is this really beyond our capabilities? Am I being too simplistic?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on September 22, 2020, 02:25:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 22, 2020, 01:25:35 PM
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/


8,800 cases per million
560 deaths per million.
26 Co figures :-
C.6,000
C.350

It's not a simple as that, you can never compare apples with apples. For example (statistica.com - no idea how accurate it is) Sweden has a median age of 41.3yo with ROI having a median age of 37.1yo, assume that is relevant in a disease that is more deadly to the elder population.

What is clear however is that if we continue to enact some form of lockdown, businesses will fail, unemployment will rise, revenue generated from taxation will fall and public services will suffer.

How many will then fall below the breadline or die as a result of increased waiting times. I do not have any answers but I understand why they are trying to keep businesses open while limiting visits to other homes.

In the meantime I will keep social distance, maintain good hygiene, wear a mask where required and support local businesses (hospitality included).

Unfortunately, whether we like it or not scenes in Tyrone and south Belfast will be used as reasons why we can't have nice things!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on September 22, 2020, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 22, 2020, 02:25:07 PM
Was reading that the Chinese rolled out 11 million tests in one burst in Wuhan and as a result managed to get the whole thing back to relative normality.

I keep yapping they have no interest in spending that type of money here (or effort)....but Christ wouldn't it help?

Immediate mass testing, you are fine....work away. If you have covid or whatever the tests pick up....look, sorry your going to have to isolate here for 2 weeks.

Is this really beyond our capabilities? Am I being too simplistic?

It's not about the money. There's nowhere near the lab capacity in Ireland for the amount of testing. The equipment, the trained personnel, the whole infrastructure to organise something of that magnitude.

The capacity in the south is 100,000 tests a week apparently, and about 45,000 in the north. With 6.8 million on the island it would take 10 months to test everyone. Over a year in reality with the necessary re-tests.

Fantasy stuff at this stage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 22, 2020, 04:32:28 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on September 22, 2020, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 22, 2020, 02:25:07 PM
Was reading that the Chinese rolled out 11 million tests in one burst in Wuhan and as a result managed to get the whole thing back to relative normality.

I keep yapping they have no interest in spending that type of money here (or effort)....but Christ wouldn't it help?

Immediate mass testing, you are fine....work away. If you have covid or whatever the tests pick up....look, sorry your going to have to isolate here for 2 weeks.

Is this really beyond our capabilities? Am I being too simplistic?

It's not about the money. There's nowhere near the lab capacity in Ireland for the amount of testing. The equipment, the trained personnel, the whole infrastructure to organise something of that magnitude.

The capacity in the south is 100,000 tests a week apparently, and about 45,000 in the north. With 6.8 million on the island it would take 10 months to test everyone. Over a year in reality with the necessary re-tests.

Fantasy stuff at this stage.

Getting closer to that capacity with 90,454 tests done in the last 7 days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 22, 2020, 05:51:21 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 22, 2020, 02:25:07 PM
Was reading that the Chinese rolled out 11 million tests in one burst in Wuhan and as a result managed to get the whole thing back to relative normality.

I keep yapping they have no interest in spending that type of money here (or effort)....but Christ wouldn't it help?

Immediate mass testing, you are fine....work away. If you have covid or whatever the tests pick up....look, sorry your going to have to isolate here for 2 weeks.

Is this really beyond our capabilities? Am I being too simplistic?

The Chinese probably used capacity throughout China to achieve this.
This would help, but it may have to await some new testing technique to implement it. If you had a new testing gadget and could put one in every employer and every school and university, then this could be brought under control and this rather than a vaccine might turn out to be the solution.

Maybe something like this https://www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2020/09/18/mit-harvard-broad-institute-crispr-coronavirus-test
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on September 22, 2020, 06:51:22 PM
The theory of testing everybody and trying to identify any instances of the virus here is all well and good. But the problem is those travelling through airports and potentially bringing it in again from other countries.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 22, 2020, 08:29:45 PM
Boris says another 6 months! f**k me!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on September 22, 2020, 08:40:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 22, 2020, 08:29:45 PM
Boris says another 6 months! f**k me!

A stitch in time does indeed save 9 (or 50K deaths) but that time was early march you fuckín moron.

Has he any redeeming qualities?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 22, 2020, 08:44:40 PM
I'm heading to pub on Saturday for 12 pm and not leaving till ten! Will bring my own sarnies
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 22, 2020, 08:56:26 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 22, 2020, 08:40:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 22, 2020, 08:29:45 PM
Boris says another 6 months! f**k me!

A stitch in time does indeed save 9 (or 50K deaths) but that time was early march you f**kín moron.

Has he any redeeming qualities?

None. Not enough bad words could be said about him
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 22, 2020, 09:06:50 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on September 22, 2020, 06:51:22 PM
The theory of testing everybody and trying to identify any instances of the virus here is all well and good. But the problem is those travelling through airports and potentially bringing it in again from other countries.

Test them on arrival and again after 5 days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 22, 2020, 11:20:58 PM
Yer wan from Oxford on PrimeTime was some wagon

Sunetra Gupta is her name

Slagging off Tomas Ryan's estimates of how many people have already had the virus in Ireland

Gupta herself claimed that as many as half of Britain had already got Covid - not now, in September, but back in March

She doesn't have much of a record of accuracy with this sort of thing

She gets a lot of praise from the usual professional contrarian suspects on Twitter, bots and that

Strangely enough, one of the professional contrarian arguments is that a lot of the people who are testing positive now are not really positive at all

And yet they claim herd immunity can be achieved - so simultaneously they claim that a lot more people have got the virus than the figures show, and also that a lot less people are getting it than the figures show

Another professional contrarian argument was that cocooning was destroying the lives of the elderly

Yet now the professional contrarian argument is that the elderly and vulnerable can be effectively cut off from all other human contact indefinitely as the virus runs rampant, no problem, no siree

None of it makes sense

Almost like it's all a grift driven by right-wing politics
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 23, 2020, 12:52:48 PM
Good article written in plain English by an epidemiologist

Rod Jackson: Why Covid is at least 10 times more deadly than the flu

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12366565

Rod Jackson is Professor of Epidemiology at the School of Population Health Faculty of Medical and Health Sciences, University of Auckland.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 23, 2020, 02:45:56 PM
220 new cases of Coronavirus in Northern Ireland, there have been 1,078 positive tests during past 7 days.
It hasn't gone away, although people seem to be behaving as if it has, in Belfast, Derry and Newry the R number of the virus has risen to close to 2!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 23, 2020, 03:48:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 23, 2020, 02:45:56 PM
220 new cases of Coronavirus in Northern Ireland, there have been 1,078 positive tests during past 7 days.
It hasn't gone away, although people seem to be behaving as if it has, in Belfast, Derry and Newry the R number of the virus has risen to close to 2!

Are we getting an age profile with those numbers? and how many ICU are being used for this? at this rate we'll be locked down for Halloween
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 23, 2020, 03:55:30 PM
Nowhere in the world has this thing under control. There have been varying degrees of success and then it comes back to bite people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on September 23, 2020, 04:01:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 23, 2020, 02:45:56 PM
220 new cases of Coronavirus in Northern Ireland, there have been 1,078 positive tests during past 7 days.
It hasn't gone away, although people seem to be behaving as if it has, in Belfast, Derry and Newry the R number of the virus has risen to close to 2!

How could it not be? Far too many folk won't wear a mask. You could be in a Spar with 20 other shoppers, maybe 2 wearing masks. Restaurant staff bouncing from table to table not wearing masks either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on September 23, 2020, 04:20:19 PM
A number of cases have been linked to students returning home from University in Belfast or indeed from young ones that dont go to Uni but spent a few days up there socialising.

Spreading like wildfire however it does seem to be mostly under 20's with it however it has been passed onto the parents in some instances (most of these are under 50)

Next in line will be grandparents & the vulnerable and then we will really see the hospital admissions rise
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on September 23, 2020, 04:21:30 PM
It has spread like wildfire in Strabane, supposedly stemming from a group of six lads who went to Spain and didn't quarantine when they got back.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on September 23, 2020, 04:52:24 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/germany-to-declare-dublin-a-covid-19-risk-area-due-to-high-number-of-coronavirus-cases-1.4362384
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on September 23, 2020, 05:52:02 PM
Armagh the cases are going up but ICU has not changed one bit still at an all time low
Hospital admissions very low also
Belgium will now only count people who are admitted to hospital as a case and rightly so
Imagine firing out daily numbers for a common flu
Imagine the numbers we were only seeing were admissions to hospital
Think about it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on September 23, 2020, 06:09:13 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on September 23, 2020, 05:52:02 PM
Armagh the cases are going up but ICU has not changed one bit still at an all time low
Hospital admissions very low also
Belgium will now only count people who are admitted to hospital as a case and rightly so
Imagine firing out daily numbers for a common flu
Imagine the numbers we were only seeing were admissions to hospital
Think about it
Yip,  something very strange going on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 23, 2020, 06:29:07 PM
Ahhhh so I hadn't the flu back in December 2017 after all seeing as I hadn't to go to Hospital.
Professor Smurf is back ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on September 23, 2020, 07:19:02 PM
So most Covid Conspiracy theories pretty much all have their roots in the fact that people don't like being inconvienced in anyway for any length of time?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 23, 2020, 08:10:30 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on September 23, 2020, 05:52:02 PM
Armagh the cases are going up but ICU has not changed one bit still at an all time low
Hospital admissions very low also
Belgium will now only count people who are admitted to hospital as a case and rightly so
Imagine firing out daily numbers for a common flu
Imagine the numbers we were only seeing were admissions to hospital
Think about it
Have you not seen the bit about the majority of current cases being in the 20-40 bracket hence the high numbers and low hospitalizations. It's not rocket science to presume that these same younger folk will spread it to the vulnerable categories and then you'll get your fill of deaths and ICU cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 23, 2020, 09:02:06 PM
So do Belgium not isolate them as they don't count when not in hospital?? They still have fairly stringent measures in place. I had a wee read and they're not allowed to travel to the uk lol.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh Girl on September 23, 2020, 09:05:23 PM
Not Surprised that figures in Newry/Armagh are going up.  Came home (outside Newry) from work about an hour ago, to see 4 Students coming out of house next door, going to 4 different cars, then another 4 (who got out of separate 4 cars) following them into same house for Tutoring.  Obviously this Teacher who teaches in the Keady area does not care 1 iota for the children he is tutoring at home or for the others who he is teaching on a daily basis, and obviously the parents care even less!!   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 23, 2020, 09:17:48 PM
Fairly damning article on prominent herd immunity proponents in the UK here, seems there's a concerted move from big business on to promote pseudoscience at the expense of real science as has happened with climate crisis deniers being promoted

SCAMADEMICS?
Right-Wing Lobbying Groups Reviving 'Herd Immunity' in the UK
Nafeez Ahmed
23 September 2020


https://bylinetimes.com/2020/09/23/scamademics-right-wing-lobbying-groups-reviving-herd-immunity-in-the-uk/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on September 23, 2020, 09:25:00 PM
Countries that are on top of testing are doing well.
The UK is a clusterfuck. Ireland could do a lot better.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 23, 2020, 09:58:28 PM
I do find a bit of irony in the uk making people self isolate coming from certain countries when the record is better than the uks. (Though to be honest this thing has differing peaks and troughs from country to country and it is hard to know where anyone is at on that curve).

To be honest the more time goes on the more it becomes clear that no one is on top of this. Still too many gaps in understanding.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 23, 2020, 10:22:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 23, 2020, 09:58:28 PM
I do find a bit of irony in the uk making people self isolate coming from certain countries when the record is better than the uks. (Though to be honest this thing has differing peaks and troughs from country to country and it is hard to know where anyone is at on that curve).

To be honest the more time goes on the more it becomes clear that no one is on top of this. Still too many gaps in understanding.

The total number of cases in a day in China would fit on a bus and could probably remain socially distanced. They took it seriously and sorted it so now they don't need most of the measures.
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0923/1166979-coronavirus-china/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 24, 2020, 12:12:37 AM
Philip Boucher Hayes did a nice job on Johan Giesecke earlier on Drivetime

Giesecke all but admitted the Swedish strategy wouldn't work in Ireland
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on September 24, 2020, 09:11:35 AM
Did Raab go on Sky yesterday and say 93% of the tests were giving false positives and if so why arent the media all over this.

Im confused. And i think so are the policymakers..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 24, 2020, 09:25:16 AM
It is hard to get detail on that without full conspiracy theory...

i read a bit on it in the huffington post and it appears that there are a huge number of variables to it so it is very hard to put a hard and fast number on it.

This comment strikes me:
Additionally, if false positives were causing the spike in numbers, it would be uniform across the UK and it isn't.]Additionally, if false positives were causing the spike in numbers, it would be uniform across the UK and it isn't.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/false-positives-coronavirus_uk_5f686da4c5b6de79b677e909?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAI2D3IG3_S0ZlHdWexuWLnWh61EOi3_9BGIE_v4cWm6KLYUXO4JOXPpDP62KGfPbKaERcuzS9rzMe1bVPSIdyfdLhiwGlAiI1yk0aHBecTTlJd1SRB0OqER4EUi_9wGcZAMu3VULcbrP_7rFbb9RWHZ4rz8pYjyta0fdmE_4KXh (https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/false-positives-coronavirus_uk_5f686da4c5b6de79b677e909?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAI2D3IG3_S0ZlHdWexuWLnWh61EOi3_9BGIE_v4cWm6KLYUXO4JOXPpDP62KGfPbKaERcuzS9rzMe1bVPSIdyfdLhiwGlAiI1yk0aHBecTTlJd1SRB0OqER4EUi_9wGcZAMu3VULcbrP_7rFbb9RWHZ4rz8pYjyta0fdmE_4KXh)

Disclaimer there is some shite in that article too and some of the people's tweets who are highlighted are muppets however maybe that's a good thing to provide some balance to the argument.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 24, 2020, 10:17:57 AM
The number of false positives are likely proportional to the number of real cases.
This is all a distraction.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 24, 2020, 10:23:04 AM
I don't think there is too much in it either but it isn't helped by that plonker Hancock talking about it. If he talks about anything it most likely is inaccurate :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on September 24, 2020, 12:28:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 24, 2020, 09:25:16 AM
It is hard to get detail on that without full conspiracy theory...

i read a bit on it in the huffington post and it appears that there are a huge number of variables to it so it is very hard to put a hard and fast number on it.

This comment strikes me:
Additionally, if false positives were causing the spike in numbers, it would be uniform across the UK and it isn't.]Additionally, if false positives were causing the spike in numbers, it would be uniform across the UK and it isn't.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/false-positives-coronavirus_uk_5f686da4c5b6de79b677e909?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAI2D3IG3_S0ZlHdWexuWLnWh61EOi3_9BGIE_v4cWm6KLYUXO4JOXPpDP62KGfPbKaERcuzS9rzMe1bVPSIdyfdLhiwGlAiI1yk0aHBecTTlJd1SRB0OqER4EUi_9wGcZAMu3VULcbrP_7rFbb9RWHZ4rz8pYjyta0fdmE_4KXh (https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/false-positives-coronavirus_uk_5f686da4c5b6de79b677e909?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAI2D3IG3_S0ZlHdWexuWLnWh61EOi3_9BGIE_v4cWm6KLYUXO4JOXPpDP62KGfPbKaERcuzS9rzMe1bVPSIdyfdLhiwGlAiI1yk0aHBecTTlJd1SRB0OqER4EUi_9wGcZAMu3VULcbrP_7rFbb9RWHZ4rz8pYjyta0fdmE_4KXh)

Disclaimer there is some shite in that article too and some of the people's tweets who are highlighted are muppets however maybe that's a good thing to provide some balance to the argument.

Scientific literacy has never been very evident in politician in this part of the world, even during the best of times, and that no doubt plays a part in the confusion.

However, there is an unmistakingly obvious ploy to muddy with waters with this sort of stuff. Far too much undue prominence has been given to the thoughts of some conceited egotist and attention seekers.

Sikora, Heneghan, Gupta - credentialled cranks, who shamelessly blather on despite having been discredited time after time after time. Yet they're are still platformed. Legions across the internet still parrot their tweets. Politicians still slyly allude to their contrariant musings.

It all adds up to a give the impression that the science is much more uncertain than is actually the case. Who benefits from this? Who has crafted their convenient scapegoat when the questions get a little too difficult?

The scamdemic wing-nuts might be right about the reality of manipulation, just not the direction of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Godsown on September 24, 2020, 12:51:39 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on September 24, 2020, 09:11:35 AM
Did Raab go on Sky yesterday and say 93% of the tests were giving false positives and if so why arent the media all over this.

Im confused. And i think so are the policymakers..

In all honesty you couldn't take that man seriously. He either doesn't know but wouldn't admit it or just lies
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 24, 2020, 01:27:24 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on September 24, 2020, 12:28:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 24, 2020, 09:25:16 AM
It is hard to get detail on that without full conspiracy theory...

i read a bit on it in the huffington post and it appears that there are a huge number of variables to it so it is very hard to put a hard and fast number on it.

This comment strikes me:
Additionally, if false positives were causing the spike in numbers, it would be uniform across the UK and it isn't.]Additionally, if false positives were causing the spike in numbers, it would be uniform across the UK and it isn't.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/false-positives-coronavirus_uk_5f686da4c5b6de79b677e909?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAI2D3IG3_S0ZlHdWexuWLnWh61EOi3_9BGIE_v4cWm6KLYUXO4JOXPpDP62KGfPbKaERcuzS9rzMe1bVPSIdyfdLhiwGlAiI1yk0aHBecTTlJd1SRB0OqER4EUi_9wGcZAMu3VULcbrP_7rFbb9RWHZ4rz8pYjyta0fdmE_4KXh (https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/false-positives-coronavirus_uk_5f686da4c5b6de79b677e909?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAI2D3IG3_S0ZlHdWexuWLnWh61EOi3_9BGIE_v4cWm6KLYUXO4JOXPpDP62KGfPbKaERcuzS9rzMe1bVPSIdyfdLhiwGlAiI1yk0aHBecTTlJd1SRB0OqER4EUi_9wGcZAMu3VULcbrP_7rFbb9RWHZ4rz8pYjyta0fdmE_4KXh)

Disclaimer there is some shite in that article too and some of the people's tweets who are highlighted are muppets however maybe that's a good thing to provide some balance to the argument.

Scientific literacy has never been very evident in politician in this part of the world, even during the best of times, and that no doubt plays a part in the confusion.

However, there is an unmistakingly obvious ploy to muddy with waters with this sort of stuff. Far too much undue prominence has been given to the thoughts of some conceited egotist and attention seekers.

Sikora, Heneghan, Gupta - credentialled cranks, who shamelessly blather on despite having been discredited time after time after time. Yet they're are still platformed. Legions across the internet still parrot their tweets. Politicians still slyly allude to their contrariant musings.

It all adds up to a give the impression that the science is much more uncertain than is actually the case. Who benefits from this? Who has crafted their convenient scapegoat when the questions get a little too difficult?

The scamdemic wing-nuts might be right about the reality of manipulation, just not the direction of it.
This is exactly right

They are part of the cutting edge of the international right-wing propaganda and disinformation war

The equivalent of the climate crisis denying cranks like Myron Ebell
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 24, 2020, 01:33:39 PM
Quote from: Godsown on September 24, 2020, 12:51:39 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on September 24, 2020, 09:11:35 AM
Did Raab go on Sky yesterday and say 93% of the tests were giving false positives and if so why arent the media all over this.

Im confused. And i think so are the policymakers..

In all honesty you couldn't take that man seriously. He either doesn't know but wouldn't admit it or just lies
Raab is a real life mixture of two Harry Enfield characters, Tory Boy and Tim Nice But Dim

The Scousers from the same sketch show would be be far more competent than the real life Dominic Raab, eeh aah, eeh aah, chalm down, chalm down
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 24, 2020, 04:57:18 PM
Rumours that Donegal will be getting extra restrictions from midnight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on September 24, 2020, 05:07:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 24, 2020, 04:57:18 PM
Rumours that Donegal will be getting extra restrictions from midnight.

The case numbers continue to rise in Donegal and Louth their 14-day incidence rate is high than what it was for Offaly, Laois when restrictions was applied.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 24, 2020, 05:14:33 PM
Can't wait for January when there's a hard border and a locked down Donegal will have one road in and out of it

It'll be like the blockade of Berlin in 1948

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 24, 2020, 06:32:06 PM
Now official for Donegal.
Especially prevalent on the "East coast" per Eileen Magner!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2020, 07:21:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 24, 2020, 06:32:06 PM
Now official for Donegal.
Especially prevalent on the "East coast" per Eileen Magner!

What's the population of Donegal? Wouldn't take much time for everyone to get it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 24, 2020, 07:30:20 PM
 

Quote from: Blowitupref on September 24, 2020, 05:07:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 24, 2020, 04:57:18 PM
Rumours that Donegal will be getting extra restrictions from midnight.

The case numbers continue to rise in Donegal and Louth their 14-day incidence rate is high than what it was for Offaly, Laois when restrictions was applied.

except it is coming from the 6 counties and not meat factories.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 24, 2020, 07:35:55 PM
Is it definitely?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 24, 2020, 07:37:25 PM
Six-fold increase in the number of active infections in Donegal in 16 days. Some class of superspreader event up there, wherever it came from. It goes to show how things can move quickly from tolerable to dangerous. You'd be hard put to get them back down that amount in a fortnight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 24, 2020, 07:43:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2020, 07:21:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 24, 2020, 06:32:06 PM
Now official for Donegal.
Especially prevalent on the "East coast" per Eileen Magner!

What's the population of Donegal? Wouldn't take much time for everyone to get it
159,192 in Census 2016.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on September 24, 2020, 07:45:44 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/6831be3e-2711-4ea3-8f62-daa82cf9ca11

https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1309115400127500288?s=19
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 24, 2020, 10:00:23 PM
Galway, Cork, Louth, Wicklow and Kildare (again) were mentioned in the news of counties that could be moved to level 3.

Have numbers in Dublin stabilised or will the restrictions be longer than three weeks? At what point will they be able to be moved back down to level 2 again?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2020, 10:35:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 24, 2020, 07:43:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2020, 07:21:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 24, 2020, 06:32:06 PM
Now official for Donegal.
Especially prevalent on the "East coast" per Eileen Magner!

What's the population of Donegal? Wouldn't take much time for everyone to get it
159,192 in Census 2016.

There's a population of 90 thousand Newtownabbey alone,  in a more condense area, Donegal is well spread out, you'd wonder why it's getting special attention
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on September 24, 2020, 10:52:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2020, 10:35:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 24, 2020, 07:43:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2020, 07:21:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 24, 2020, 06:32:06 PM
Now official for Donegal.
Especially prevalent on the "East coast" per Eileen Magner!

What's the population of Donegal? Wouldn't take much time for everyone to get it
159,192 in Census 2016.

There's a population of 90 thousand Newtownabbey alone,  in a more condense area, Donegal is well spread out, you'd wonder why it's getting special attention

Donegal has 2 x hotspots. 1 of which is Lifford which is on Strabane's doorstep. Strabane is under fair pressure Covid wise. Strabane's numbers are a fair bit higher than Donegals. No idea what is going on in the twin towns
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2020, 11:07:39 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 24, 2020, 10:52:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2020, 10:35:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 24, 2020, 07:43:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2020, 07:21:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 24, 2020, 06:32:06 PM
Now official for Donegal.
Especially prevalent on the "East coast" per Eileen Magner!

What's the population of Donegal? Wouldn't take much time for everyone to get it
159,192 in Census 2016.

There's a population of 90 thousand Newtownabbey alone,  in a more condense area, Donegal is well spread out, you'd wonder why it's getting special attention

Donegal has 2 x hotspots. 1 of which is Lifford which is on Strabane's doorstep. Strabane is under fair pressure Covid wise. Strabane's numbers are a fair bit higher than Donegals. No idea what is going on in the twin towns

Still, it's a big enough county and if it's two hotspots then close them down, not the county
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 24, 2020, 11:11:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2020, 10:35:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 24, 2020, 07:43:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2020, 07:21:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 24, 2020, 06:32:06 PM
Now official for Donegal.
Especially prevalent on the "East coast" per Eileen Magner!

What's the population of Donegal? Wouldn't take much time for everyone to get it
159,192 in Census 2016.

There's a population of 90 thousand Newtownabbey alone,  in a more condense area, Donegal is well spread out, you'd wonder why it's getting special attention

Because the 14-day incidence number is higher in Donegal now than what it was in Dublin this time last week.  What is done to lower Strabanes numbers?

@Farrandeelin Dublin has somewhat stabilised  this week but they will need cases to drop in hospital also to drop back to level two I can imagine.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 24, 2020, 11:18:57 PM
We have went from lowest in Ireland to worse here in Derry City. Just to confirm, mostly house parties in shebeens etc
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 24, 2020, 11:21:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2020, 11:07:39 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 24, 2020, 10:52:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2020, 10:35:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 24, 2020, 07:43:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 24, 2020, 07:21:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 24, 2020, 06:32:06 PM
Now official for Donegal.
Especially prevalent on the "East coast" per Eileen Magner!

What's the population of Donegal? Wouldn't take much time for everyone to get it
159,192 in Census 2016.

There's a population of 90 thousand Newtownabbey alone,  in a more condense area, Donegal is well spread out, you'd wonder why it's getting special attention

Donegal has 2 x hotspots. 1 of which is Lifford which is on Strabane's doorstep. Strabane is under fair pressure Covid wise. Strabane's numbers are a fair bit higher than Donegals. No idea what is going on in the twin towns

Still, it's a big enough county and if it's two hotspots then close them down, not the county

I find the logic baffling. In the Milford area there's 5 cases in a rather vast rural landscape. Even a paranoid wreck would happily take their chances roaming around that area.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 25, 2020, 12:27:46 AM
It is the same in Dublin, there is a huge difference between Blackrock and Blanchardstown. But whereever yo draw the line, someone is not happy, everyone knows where the county ends, especially in Donegal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tyrdub on September 25, 2020, 08:43:57 AM
so, myself and herself are supposed be in Dunfanaghy next weekend, do we go? will pubs be open? can we eat in pubs/ restaurants? Staying in hotel but I've booked her into the spa, will it be open????

any point in going if I cant hit the pub?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: downjim on September 25, 2020, 08:56:05 AM
Young ones  partying is the main problem , they don't seem to care. I heard of 40 plus cases in Mayobridge area last week and it seems that every club in Down has cases and clubs are really worried. Taking the virus home to a sick granny or granda is when it will hit home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2020, 08:57:28 AM
Quote from: Tyrdub on September 25, 2020, 08:43:57 AM
so, myself and herself are supposed be in Dunfanaghy next weekend, do we go? will pubs be open? can we eat in pubs/ restaurants? Staying in hotel but I've booked her into the spa, will it be open????

any point in going if I cant hit the pub?

Arnolds?

Christ, that's the problem shutting down the county over 2 hotspots is everyone else is suffering!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tyrdub on September 25, 2020, 09:24:08 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2020, 08:57:28 AM
Quote from: Tyrdub on September 25, 2020, 08:43:57 AM
so, myself and herself are supposed be in Dunfanaghy next weekend, do we go? will pubs be open? can we eat in pubs/ restaurants? Staying in hotel but I've booked her into the spa, will it be open????

any point in going if I cant hit the pub?

Arnolds?

Christ, that's the problem shutting down the county over 2 hotspots is everyone else is suffering!

No, the Shandon.

We rescheduled 3 times due to the lockdown, I'm not going to ask for a refund as it penalises the hotel, plus we want the break away, but I get the feeling its cursed lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hereiam on September 25, 2020, 09:32:52 AM
Are people surprised Donegal is now seeing a lot of cases, the crowds were flocking there during the summer. Its a warning to all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 25, 2020, 09:37:43 AM
On a related but separate note that Sammy Wilson stuff is hilarious. He has now said he was caught red handed without a mask but people basically shouldn't be touting lol.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 25, 2020, 09:46:11 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on September 25, 2020, 09:32:52 AM
Are people surprised Donegal is now seeing a lot of cases, the crowds were flocking there during the summer. Its a warning to all.

If that's the case then I'd be surprised if you weren't surprised that Lifford is the county's hotspot. And given that nobody has ever visited Lifford, save to get diesel, then the summer crowds probably weren't the spreaders.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: maddog on September 25, 2020, 09:50:32 AM
Was supposed to be home for first time since March this weekend. Have had to cancel with the new restrictions. Lose the flights but wasn't much anyway. Looks like won't get over anytime soon. I've a fortnight off from today and no idea what to do with it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on September 25, 2020, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 25, 2020, 09:46:11 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on September 25, 2020, 09:32:52 AM
Are people surprised Donegal is now seeing a lot of cases, the crowds were flocking there during the summer. Its a warning to all.

If that's the case then I'd be surprised if you weren't surprised that Lifford is the county's hotspot. And given that nobody has ever visited Lifford, save to get diesel, then the summer crowds probably weren't the spreaders.

Ironically the hotspots in Donegal are actually total ch*t holes that are way off the tourist trail, namely Convoy, Lifford & Stranrolar. Have seen a huge level of English reg cars since April, even now still way above normal level. These English tourists don't seem to be contributing anything to the rise in Covid cases, but sure we'll blame them anyway, never mind our own eggits who are actually causing the spread at house parties, whore houses etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tyrdub on September 25, 2020, 10:07:37 AM
Now they're talking about restricting travel between Donegal and the occupied 6, don't know how effective this will be

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54279088
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 25, 2020, 10:44:24 AM
Is Stormont doing anything about restricting Derry and Strabane which seems to be the source of the problem?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on September 25, 2020, 10:47:08 AM
Big anti masks protests Letterkenny saturday
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on September 25, 2020, 10:52:10 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 25, 2020, 09:37:43 AM
On a related but separate note that Sammy Wilson stuff is hilarious. He has now said he was caught red handed without a mask but people basically shouldn't be touting lol.

East Germany is trending on twitter this morning thanks to his comments about touting and the Stasi..

Sammy in a normal party would be a liability and kicked out, but not here in Norn Iron.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 25, 2020, 10:55:18 AM
Touts out was what I read ;D

Sure the word on the street is he is trying to undermine Arlene at every opportunity and making a play for leadership. That would be a bit of an own goal on it but he's just one after another and makes little difference.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tyrdub on September 25, 2020, 10:55:33 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 25, 2020, 10:44:24 AM
Is Stormont doing anything about restricting Derry and Strabane which seems to be the source of the problem?

I think that's the general plan
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 25, 2020, 10:57:04 AM
Is it not one of the lockdown postcodes?

belfast is fully locked down at present so people can come into it but if you live there you can't go out unless for specific circumstances.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on September 25, 2020, 10:57:45 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 25, 2020, 10:55:18 AM
Touts out was what I read ;D

Sure the word on the street is he is trying to undermine Arlene at every opportunity and making a play for leadership. That would be a bit of an own goal on it but he's just one after another and makes little difference.

Arlene is couped as a leader and it's only a matter of time before she's gone.

As for Sammy taking over, sweet lord if the UUP couldn't make inroads then they might as well pack up and go home.

Can't see that happening though. Daniel O'Donnell is the heir apparent.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 25, 2020, 11:13:31 AM
Quote from: Rudi on September 25, 2020, 09:57:01 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 25, 2020, 09:46:11 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on September 25, 2020, 09:32:52 AM
Are people surprised Donegal is now seeing a lot of cases, the crowds were flocking there during the summer. Its a warning to all.

If that's the case then I'd be surprised if you weren't surprised that Lifford is the county's hotspot. And given that nobody has ever visited Lifford, save to get diesel, then the summer crowds probably weren't the spreaders.

Ironically the hotspots in Donegal are actually total ch*t holes that are way off the tourist trail, namely Convoy, Lifford & Stranrolar. Have seen a huge level of English reg cars since April, even now still way above normal level. These English tourists don't seem to be contributing anything to the rise in Covid cases, but sure we'll blame them anyway, never mind our own eggits who are actually causing the spread at house parties, whore houses etc.
Heard on the radio this morn that a Doctor in Lifford had dealt with 13 cases of Covid from Mar-Sep and 54 in the last week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on September 25, 2020, 11:36:26 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 25, 2020, 10:57:04 AM
Is it not one of the lockdown postcodes?

belfast is fully locked down at present so people can come into it but if you live there you can't go out unless for specific circumstances.

And that doesnt make sense - in simplistic terms a person can go into the infected area and take it back to a non infected area
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 25, 2020, 11:45:16 AM
Quote from: Taylor on September 25, 2020, 11:36:26 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 25, 2020, 10:57:04 AM
Is it not one of the lockdown postcodes?

belfast is fully locked down at present so people can come into it but if you live there you can't go out unless for specific circumstances.

And that doesnt make sense - in simplistic terms a person can go into the infected area and take it back to a non infected area

26 county policy is fairly clear, if you don't work in Dublin don't go there except for medical appointments and Dubs should not be going out of Dublin. In the 6 counties there doesn't seem to be any real policy on this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 25, 2020, 11:52:40 AM
As an example the belfast lockdown was a funny one. I think they restricted less by trying to restrict more. (e.g. the peripheries weren't restricted so people in the centre couldn't go to them whereas they then restricted the peripheries too so people from the centre could go to them). Granted that put more restrictions on the people from the peripheries but it also relaxed on other people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 25, 2020, 12:02:27 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 25, 2020, 10:52:10 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 25, 2020, 09:37:43 AM
On a related but separate note that Sammy Wilson stuff is hilarious. He has now said he was caught red handed without a mask but people basically shouldn't be touting lol.

East Germany is trending on twitter this morning thanks to his comments about touting and the Stasi..

Sammy in a normal party would be a liability and kicked out, but not here in Norn Iron.
Himself and Marc MacSharry should form a new party together
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on September 25, 2020, 12:16:55 PM
GAA allowing clubs with social clubs to open but I'm surprised at this particular bit of the guidance;


A maximum of six people from any number of households can be seated at a table in a hospitality venue. Children aged 12 and under will be discounted from the total. More than six will be permitted if they all belong to a single household.


Is that right?



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tyrdub on September 25, 2020, 12:40:32 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 25, 2020, 12:16:55 PM
GAA allowing clubs with social clubs to open but I'm surprised at this particular bit of the guidance;


A maximum of six people from any number of households can be seated at a table in a hospitality venue. Children aged 12 and under will be discounted from the total. More than six will be permitted if they all belong to a single household.


Is that right?

No, the rules changed last night, slightly underhand way but thats the Assembly for you....6 people for only 2 households can be seated at a table

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54286469
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on September 25, 2020, 05:32:36 PM
273 cases in the North today. The biggest daily figure in the 6 Counties since the pandemic began.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2020, 05:48:37 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 25, 2020, 05:32:36 PM
273 cases in the North today. The biggest daily figure in the 6 Counties since the pandemic began.

Did it quote deaths?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on September 25, 2020, 06:21:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 25, 2020, 05:48:37 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on September 25, 2020, 05:32:36 PM
273 cases in the North today. The biggest daily figure in the 6 Counties since the pandemic began.

Did it quote deaths?

Tbh, I think the quality of the data we get is lazy and often lacks relevance.

The daily increased numbers can be affected by time and day of testing and results, the accuracy of the tests( false positives and negatives) , amount of testing being done , availability of testing etc.

The age profile is relevant , as now more young people are being tested because of increased testing capacity and the fact that they are now more exposed than older generations.

There are several other relevant factors which contextualise the rise in cases.

We must demand more relevant data and evidence based measures to stay on top of the disease whilst not destroying the economy and increasing other preventable health problems .

There are certain easy evidenced-based measures which we can all buy in to : distancing, masks, hygiene , isolation if positive or symptoms, get your flu vaccination, look after your health otherwise. But we must also work hard to keep society functional . This means sensible workable restrictions that take into account the overall welfare of the population not just the direct impact of the virus.
All sensible people I know, feel this is the best approach , why is this voice not being Heard? Is it because right-wing elements have latched on to some of these ideas , in the midst of their other nonsense , therefore undermining them?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 25, 2020, 07:16:55 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on September 25, 2020, 06:21:13 PM
Tbh, I think the quality of the data we get is lazy and often lacks relevance.

The daily increased numbers can be affected by time and day of testing and results, the accuracy of the tests( false positives and negatives) , amount of testing being done , availability of testing etc.

Testing availability is fairly constant now, if you compare week on week numbers are increasing greatly. Comparisons with March would be flawed.

.

QuoteThere are certain easy evidenced-based measures which we can all buy in to : distancing, masks, hygiene , isolation if positive or symptoms, get your flu vaccination, look after your health otherwise. But we must also work hard to keep society functional . This means sensible workable restrictions that take into account the overall welfare of the population not just the direct impact of the virus.
All sensible people I know, feel this is the best approach , why is this voice not being Heard? Is it because right-wing elements have latched on to some of these ideas , in the midst of their other nonsense , therefore undermining them?

You would think that sensible people would think this, but a large number do not wear masks, they go on golf outings, they do not maintain distance if their team wins the Tyrone championship,  they do not isolate on returning from abroad or when their contacts are tested. The measures in place would probably be sufficient if people actually followed them, but everyone seems to think that these measures are for other people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on September 25, 2020, 07:23:59 PM
Yeah there is a larger proportion of the general public than you think will just refuse to be inconvenienced in any way & you won't tell me what to do attitude. Be that wearing a mask, washing your hands, self isolating after holiday etc

The playbook to drive down infection rate is well established here and all other countries, social distancing, wash your hands, masks etc

People aren't doing it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 25, 2020, 08:00:19 PM
The link O'Neill posted about Italy, where people are getting on with things, but they do wear masks, keep their distance etc. This may reflect a recognition of the danger after the scenes earlier in the year of army trucks carrying bodies and relatively young medical staff dying because of their work. So rates in Italy have not increased as quickly as many places, likewise in New York.
Here, with a health service that is stressed at the best of times, many people do not seem to accept there is a problem, or if there is that they personally have any requirement to do anything about it. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 25, 2020, 08:16:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 25, 2020, 08:00:19 PM
The link O'Neill posted about Italy, where people are getting on with things, but they do wear masks, keep their distance etc. This may reflect a recognition of the danger after the scenes earlier in the year of army trucks carrying bodies and relatively young medical staff dying because of their work. So rates in Italy have not increased as quickly as many places, likewise in New York.
Here, with a health service that is stressed at the best of times, many people do not seem to accept there is a problem, or if there is that they personally have any requirement to do anything about it.

What do you expect when your deputy first minister deliberately and publicly broke the law.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 25, 2020, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 25, 2020, 08:16:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 25, 2020, 08:00:19 PM
The link O'Neill posted about Italy, where people are getting on with things, but they do wear masks, keep their distance etc. This may reflect a recognition of the danger after the scenes earlier in the year of army trucks carrying bodies and relatively young medical staff dying because of their work. So rates in Italy have not increased as quickly as many places, likewise in New York.
Here, with a health service that is stressed at the best of times, many people do not seem to accept there is a problem, or if there is that they personally have any requirement to do anything about it.

What do you expect when your deputy first minister deliberately and publicly broke the law.

Many people who would disagree politically with Sammy Wilson or Michelle O'Neill still follow their example.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 25, 2020, 09:57:54 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 25, 2020, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 25, 2020, 08:16:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 25, 2020, 08:00:19 PM
The link O'Neill posted about Italy, where people are getting on with things, but they do wear masks, keep their distance etc. This may reflect a recognition of the danger after the scenes earlier in the year of army trucks carrying bodies and relatively young medical staff dying because of their work. So rates in Italy have not increased as quickly as many places, likewise in New York.
Here, with a health service that is stressed at the best of times, many people do not seem to accept there is a problem, or if there is that they personally have any requirement to do anything about it.

What do you expect when your deputy first minister deliberately and publicly broke the law.

Many people who would disagree politically with Sammy Wilson or Michelle O'Neill still follow their example.

Yeah.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on September 25, 2020, 11:04:31 PM
The timelines for test and trace in the republic is a total ch%t show, waste of time informing close contacts 6 days later.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on September 26, 2020, 08:27:52 AM
a group of anti mask anti 5g people showed up outside rte last night as they thought dr fauci was on late late show and in rte studios
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on September 26, 2020, 08:34:37 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on September 26, 2020, 08:27:52 AM
a group of anti mask anti 5g people showed up outside rte last night as they thought dr fauci was on late late show and in rte studios
Highlighting the stupid level of that group of people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mario on September 26, 2020, 09:24:37 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 25, 2020, 08:00:19 PM
The link O'Neill posted about Italy, where people are getting on with things, but they do wear masks, keep their distance etc. This may reflect a recognition of the danger after the scenes earlier in the year of army trucks carrying bodies and relatively young medical staff dying because of their work. So rates in Italy have not increased as quickly as many places, likewise in New York.
Here, with a health service that is stressed at the best of times, many people do not seem to accept there is a problem, or if there is that they personally have any requirement to do anything about it.
So places where the virus spread like wild fire no longer have high numbers of cases. Do you really think people in NY are obeying the rules better than Ireland? Perhaps rates haven't increased here because there is more immunity from t cells and antibodies in these places. All strict lockdown does is kick the can down the road.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 26, 2020, 09:34:54 AM
In Italy there might be some immunity in Bergamo, but mask wearing etc is still better in areas that had few enough cases. In New York the Orthodox Jews are banjaxing the regulations as they are extremists.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 09:38:19 AM
Quote from: Mario on September 26, 2020, 09:24:37 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 25, 2020, 08:00:19 PM
The link O'Neill posted about Italy, where people are getting on with things, but they do wear masks, keep their distance etc. This may reflect a recognition of the danger after the scenes earlier in the year of army trucks carrying bodies and relatively young medical staff dying because of their work. So rates in Italy have not increased as quickly as many places, likewise in New York.
Here, with a health service that is stressed at the best of times, many people do not seem to accept there is a problem, or if there is that they personally have any requirement to do anything about it.
So places where the virus spread like wild fire no longer have high numbers of cases. Do you really think people in NY are obeying the rules better than Ireland? Perhaps rates haven't increased here because there is more immunity from t cells and antibodies in these places. All strict lockdown does is kick the can down the road.
What's "the can"?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 26, 2020, 09:42:41 AM
Nothing wrong with kicking the can down the road. As Fauci said to Tubridy, a vaccine s coming and this will greatly help things.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mario on September 26, 2020, 12:12:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 09:38:19 AM
Quote from: Mario on September 26, 2020, 09:24:37 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 25, 2020, 08:00:19 PM
The link O'Neill posted about Italy, where people are getting on with things, but they do wear masks, keep their distance etc. This may reflect a recognition of the danger after the scenes earlier in the year of army trucks carrying bodies and relatively young medical staff dying because of their work. So rates in Italy have not increased as quickly as many places, likewise in New York.
Here, with a health service that is stressed at the best of times, many people do not seem to accept there is a problem, or if there is that they personally have any requirement to do anything about it.
So places where the virus spread like wild fire no longer have high numbers of cases. Do you really think people in NY are obeying the rules better than Ireland? Perhaps rates haven't increased here because there is more immunity from t cells and antibodies in these places. All strict lockdown does is kick the can down the road.
What's "the can"?
People susceptible to the virus. Everyone is going to get it at some point, It's here to stay. The flu has never disappeared and we've had a vaccine for 20 years. There are also serious question marks over how effective and safe a vaccine produced in 6 months will be.

I'm all for wearing masks, washing hands regularly if it stops the spread but to lockdown society is ridiculous, particularly when our hospitals are not over run. Yes there is a 2 week lag but if that is the case the nhs should be on its knees next week if all we have been told is true. Young healthy people should be allowed to get on with their lives with precautions, old people should isolate more if they are worried. No business should be closed or restricted. If we ever get to the scenes in lombardi or Spain then have a strict lockdown, but let's not ruin society by preempting such a disaster.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on September 26, 2020, 12:15:09 PM
What an idiot.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/i-didnt-know-i-had-to-self-isolate-publican-who-had-coronavirus-went-to-work-while-waiting-for-test-results-39561710.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 12:48:03 PM
Quote from: Mario on September 26, 2020, 12:12:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 09:38:19 AM
Quote from: Mario on September 26, 2020, 09:24:37 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 25, 2020, 08:00:19 PM
The link O'Neill posted about Italy, where people are getting on with things, but they do wear masks, keep their distance etc. This may reflect a recognition of the danger after the scenes earlier in the year of army trucks carrying bodies and relatively young medical staff dying because of their work. So rates in Italy have not increased as quickly as many places, likewise in New York.
Here, with a health service that is stressed at the best of times, many people do not seem to accept there is a problem, or if there is that they personally have any requirement to do anything about it.
So places where the virus spread like wild fire no longer have high numbers of cases. Do you really think people in NY are obeying the rules better than Ireland? Perhaps rates haven't increased here because there is more immunity from t cells and antibodies in these places. All strict lockdown does is kick the can down the road.
What's "the can"?
People susceptible to the virus. Everyone is going to get it at some point, It's here to stay. The flu has never disappeared and we've had a vaccine for 20 years. There are also serious question marks over how effective and safe a vaccine produced in 6 months will be.

I'm all for wearing masks, washing hands regularly if it stops the spread but to lockdown society is ridiculous, particularly when our hospitals are not over run. Yes there is a 2 week lag but if that is the case the nhs should be on its knees next week if all we have been told is true. Young healthy people should be allowed to get on with their lives with precautions, old people should isolate more if they are worried. No business should be closed or restricted. If we ever get to the scenes in lombardi or Italy then have a strict lockdown, but let's not ruin society by preempting such a disaster.

Our hospitals were not and are not overrun because we locked down and because we still have some restrictions

The restrictions we currently have are not lockdown, they are quite mild actually, they are not that different to Sweden as far as I can see, certainly in most places

Inviting a massive public health crisis, which, let's face it, is what you are proposing, seems very foolish and indeed immoral

That was the primary reason why the Swedish approach was the wrong one

It is immoral to subject a population to being guinea pigs for a new pandemic disease about which little is known

Having a properly functioning test, trace and isolation system seems to be the key

But inviting three and a half million people (or "everybody", as you say, which on the island is nearly 7 million people I think) to get the virus is crazy, it will only make things a lot worse

Trial processes for vaccines happen in order to make sure they are safe

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 26, 2020, 01:19:47 PM
Quote from: Mario on September 26, 2020, 12:12:01 PM
I'm all for wearing masks, washing hands regularly if it stops the spread but to lockdown society is ridiculous, particularly when our hospitals are not over run. Yes there is a 2 week lag but if that is the case the nhs should be on its knees next week if all we have been told is true. Young healthy people should be allowed to get on with their lives with precautions, old people should isolate more if they are worried. No business should be closed or restricted. If we ever get to the scenes in lombardi or Spain then have a strict lockdown, but let's not ruin society by preempting such a disaster.

The time lag is more like 3-4 weeks for the impact on the health service, here is the 26 counties earlier in the year. The only responsible thing is to slow things down so that the health service can cope with the effects 3 weeks later.

(https://media.radiocms.net/uploads/2020/06/06120446/COVID-19-Daily-Operations-Update-5-June-2020-page-001.jpg)

The point which all these "let her rip" comments manage to overlook is that you cannot have an ever increasing number without running into trouble. You have to stop the number increasing each week and that requires measures. Handwashing will not keep R at 1, even if people were actually handwashing.

Quote from: laoislad on September 26, 2020, 12:15:09 PM
What an idiot.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/i-didnt-know-i-had-to-self-isolate-publican-who-had-coronavirus-went-to-work-while-waiting-for-test-results-39561710.html

This plonker should lose his licence. Some publications will be responsible those that are not should not be allow undermine the others.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 26, 2020, 01:42:04 PM
That buck has been getting some abuse locally and well deserved.
The town of Elphin is in effect closed down in an effort to stop the virus spreading.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 01:42:27 PM
This thread is well worth reading

https://twitter.com/ChrChristensen/status/1309668851387334663

1) As a US citizen in Sweden, I'm disturbed when I see the US right push the "Swedish model" for dealing with COVID19. It's an utterly cynical, disingenuous position that goes far beyond the question of lockdowns and masks, and highlights what's rotten at the core of US society.

2) The US political right are using a misleading vision of Sweden's COVID19 policy to promote a brutal philosophy of savage individualism, fatalism and "freedom from government." The irony of this position is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

3) Sweden's COVID policy hardly a success (6000 dead), but natl. policy can only be understood as inseparable from Sweden's developed welfare state, social system: universal healthcare, paid sick leave, paid leave to care for sick kids, subsidized daycare & pre/after-school care.

4) For many Swedes, social security policies in place mean getting COVID not a crushing financial blow; or, if jobs are lost, the state will help to support you. It's impossible — and frankly stupid — to even try to see Sweden's COVID19 strategy as separated from these policies.

5) So, it's some pretty cynical bullshit for US right-wingers who have, under the banner of "Small Government" and "Liberty," devoted their lives to  crushing universal healthcare and other humane social policies now claim to support the "Swedish model" for tackling COVID19.

6) In pushing US version of "Swedish model" for COVID19 (in other words, w/none of the Swedish healthcare, social programs), the US right is just telling citizens to enjoy their "liberty" without restriction, but if they get sick, spouse gets sick, company goes bust...tough shit.

7) Let's also be clear that even w/Sweden's relatively developed, generous social policies, many here are struggling, and many in low-paying part-time jobs must continue to work even when they suspect they're sick. So, pushing a "Swedish approach" w/even fewer safety nets? Crazy.

8) Political right cherry-pick two issues from Sweden — lockdowns, masks — & pitch them as symbols of "freedom." But real freedom comes from not being bankrupted by illness, paying for childcare, sudden unemployment. The right wants you to forget the second half of that equation.

9) And we should never let it slip through cracks that in Sweden, just as in US, minorities have been hit disproportionately hard by COVID19, in large part due to relative poverty and the type of employment. Making access to healthcare and social programs all the more important.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 26, 2020, 08:35:44 PM
319 in the 6 counties compared to 248 in the 26.Sammy Wilson will be proud that the Ulster folk are showing them how it is done.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on September 26, 2020, 08:49:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 01:42:27 PM
This thread is well worth reading

https://twitter.com/ChrChristensen/status/1309668851387334663

1) As a US citizen in Sweden, I'm disturbed when I see the US right push the "Swedish model" for dealing with COVID19. It's an utterly cynical, disingenuous position that goes far beyond the question of lockdowns and masks, and highlights what's rotten at the core of US society.

2) The US political right are using a misleading vision of Sweden's COVID19 policy to promote a brutal philosophy of savage individualism, fatalism and "freedom from government." The irony of this position is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

3) Sweden's COVID policy hardly a success (6000 dead), but natl. policy can only be understood as inseparable from Sweden's developed welfare state, social system: universal healthcare, paid sick leave, paid leave to care for sick kids, subsidized daycare & pre/after-school care.

4) For many Swedes, social security policies in place mean getting COVID not a crushing financial blow; or, if jobs are lost, the state will help to support you. It's impossible — and frankly stupid — to even try to see Sweden's COVID19 strategy as separated from these policies.

5) So, it's some pretty cynical bullshit for US right-wingers who have, under the banner of "Small Government" and "Liberty," devoted their lives to  crushing universal healthcare and other humane social policies now claim to support the "Swedish model" for tackling COVID19.

6) In pushing US version of "Swedish model" for COVID19 (in other words, w/none of the Swedish healthcare, social programs), the US right is just telling citizens to enjoy their "liberty" without restriction, but if they get sick, spouse gets sick, company goes bust...tough shit.

7) Let's also be clear that even w/Sweden's relatively developed, generous social policies, many here are struggling, and many in low-paying part-time jobs must continue to work even when they suspect they're sick. So, pushing a "Swedish approach" w/even fewer safety nets? Crazy.


9) And we should never let it slip through cracks that in Sweden, just as in US, minorities have been hit disproportionately hard by COVID19, in large part due to relative poverty and the type of employment. Making access to healthcare and social programs all the more important.

A very strange reading of the situation. The fear from a large scale Covid outbreak is not financial ruin for those who are infected but their deaths. The US government is pushing for lower restrictions to prevent a widespread financial crisis that they would be unable/willing to provide social security for those affected.

The situation is the exact reverse in Sweden, a welfare state. Their Covid policy stands in direct conflict with, rather than consistent with their social policies. If anything it would have made more sense for Sweden to employ a widespread lockdown given that they would have committed to supporting businesses/ providing social security etc.

Quote8) Political right cherry-pick two issues from Sweden — lockdowns, masks — & pitch them as symbols of "freedom." But real freedom comes from not being bankrupted by illness, paying for childcare, sudden unemployment. The right wants you to forget the second half of that equation.

He precisely misses the point here. The US non-restriction policy is promoting economic welfare over the health of its citizens. So they're trying to provide "freedom" from sudden unemployment, bankruptcy etc but potentially at the cost of human lives.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 09:15:12 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 26, 2020, 08:49:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 01:42:27 PM
This thread is well worth reading

https://twitter.com/ChrChristensen/status/1309668851387334663

1) As a US citizen in Sweden, I'm disturbed when I see the US right push the "Swedish model" for dealing with COVID19. It's an utterly cynical, disingenuous position that goes far beyond the question of lockdowns and masks, and highlights what's rotten at the core of US society.

2) The US political right are using a misleading vision of Sweden's COVID19 policy to promote a brutal philosophy of savage individualism, fatalism and "freedom from government." The irony of this position is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

3) Sweden's COVID policy hardly a success (6000 dead), but natl. policy can only be understood as inseparable from Sweden's developed welfare state, social system: universal healthcare, paid sick leave, paid leave to care for sick kids, subsidized daycare & pre/after-school care.

4) For many Swedes, social security policies in place mean getting COVID not a crushing financial blow; or, if jobs are lost, the state will help to support you. It's impossible — and frankly stupid — to even try to see Sweden's COVID19 strategy as separated from these policies.

5) So, it's some pretty cynical bullshit for US right-wingers who have, under the banner of "Small Government" and "Liberty," devoted their lives to  crushing universal healthcare and other humane social policies now claim to support the "Swedish model" for tackling COVID19.

6) In pushing US version of "Swedish model" for COVID19 (in other words, w/none of the Swedish healthcare, social programs), the US right is just telling citizens to enjoy their "liberty" without restriction, but if they get sick, spouse gets sick, company goes bust...tough shit.

7) Let's also be clear that even w/Sweden's relatively developed, generous social policies, many here are struggling, and many in low-paying part-time jobs must continue to work even when they suspect they're sick. So, pushing a "Swedish approach" w/even fewer safety nets? Crazy.


9) And we should never let it slip through cracks that in Sweden, just as in US, minorities have been hit disproportionately hard by COVID19, in large part due to relative poverty and the type of employment. Making access to healthcare and social programs all the more important.

A very strange reading of the situation. The fear from a large scale Covid outbreak is not financial ruin for those who are infected but their deaths. The US government is pushing for lower restrictions to prevent a widespread financial crisis that they would be unable/willing to provide social security for those affected.

The situation is the exact reverse in Sweden, a welfare state. Their Covid policy stands in direct conflict with, rather than consistent with their social policies. If anything it would have made more sense for Sweden to employ a widespread lockdown given that they would have committed to supporting businesses/ providing social security etc.

Quote8) Political right cherry-pick two issues from Sweden — lockdowns, masks — & pitch them as symbols of "freedom." But real freedom comes from not being bankrupted by illness, paying for childcare, sudden unemployment. The right wants you to forget the second half of that equation.

He precisely misses the point here. The US non-restriction policy is promoting economic welfare over the health of its citizens. So they're trying to provide "freedom" from sudden unemployment, bankruptcy etc but potentially at the cost of human lives.

How does he miss the point?

One of the reasons Sweden made the decision to implement the strategy they did was because they have a comprehensive welfare state that could cushion the blow of getting ill for people - I happen to think their strategy was wrong for other reasons, chiefly that it frontloaded a large number of deaths, which in my view is immoral - but there was at least some sort of a tenuous logic to their strategy given they have a comprehensive welfare state - they believed they could cushion the blow for people who fell ill and that the fall back of their welfare state would help people people to act responsibly, while reducing their economic hit

They were also wrong about the economic hit, suffering the worst of the Nordic countries

That's not surprising - economic health and public health go together, they are not in opposition

Philip Boucher Hayes explained the situation as regards living conditions, sick pay, school class sizes and the health system to Johan Giesecke during the week and all but got him to admit that Sweden's system is not an option for Ireland

In the US you have the worst of all worlds - a shambolic federal pandemic response with no welfare state and terrible working rights for most people, and a disinformation war

This is the point that has become front and centre here in Ireland lately - we have no comprehensive sick pay system - so because many people live in fear of losing their income, they have a vested interest in going to work if if they suspect they may have Covid

The writer's main point is that Sweden's strategy has been hijacked by right-wing politics internationally for nefarious means

He's absolutely right about that

The word "freedom" has been hijacked by the right-wing internationally - in reality it means the opposite of freedom - it means the destruction of regulation and welfare states and the freedom of the ultra-rich to live like kings at the expense of everybody else

They will use literally anything to spin bad faith, fake narratives as propaganda

Being anti-mask is the latest opportunist avenue and hijacking Sweden's Covid strategy for their own ends is another

But they despise everything else about Swedish society

The regime in the US does not care whether even its own supporters live or die, it's a psychopathic, fascist regime which only cares about money, power and immunity from prosecution and is willing to do literally anything and use literally anything to ensure such
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 26, 2020, 10:05:04 PM
So apparently the nhs England app doesn't allow you to enter test results from the nhs. What the hell? (incidentally yes the tories mates did do it yes)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 26, 2020, 10:42:34 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 26, 2020, 08:49:01 PM
He precisely misses the point here. The US non-restriction policy is promoting economic welfare over the health of its citizens. So they're trying to provide "freedom" from sudden unemployment, bankruptcy etc but potentially at the cost of human lives.

But it doesn't really work, the economic declined in the US only fractionally less than in Germany, which had comparatively few deaths. So the Germans did a much better job on the health of their citizens with about the same promotion of economic welfare.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on September 27, 2020, 12:18:50 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-contact-tracers-to-start-looking-into-where-people-are-infected-1.4364925?mode=amp

Jesus wept, one would have thought the whole point of contact tracing was to find out where people were around the time they contracted the disease.

Foot must've been taken off the gas when the App was released, complacency isn't just the general public. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 27, 2020, 03:18:04 AM
They don't have enough people. First priority is who did you give the disease to, so they can be isolated. Then investigating where you got it, but now that people are out and about this is labour intensive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on September 27, 2020, 07:14:54 AM
Anti 5g anti maskers were in letterkemmy yeterday
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 27, 2020, 11:00:37 AM
Hopefully the bussed in 40 scumbags have contracted the disease.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 27, 2020, 02:37:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 27, 2020, 11:00:37 AM
Hopefully the bussed in 40 scumbags have contracted the disease.

I'd say a lot of people in Donegal would love 5G and see no prospect of getting it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on September 27, 2020, 02:56:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 26, 2020, 10:42:34 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 26, 2020, 08:49:01 PM
He precisely misses the point here. The US non-restriction policy is promoting economic welfare over the health of its citizens. So they're trying to provide "freedom" from sudden unemployment, bankruptcy etc but potentially at the cost of human lives.

But it doesn't really work, the economic declined in the US only fractionally less than in Germany, which had comparatively few deaths. So the Germans did a much better job on the health of their citizens with about the same promotion of economic welfare.

Economic contraction in spain Italy France uk are all projected at over 11% for 2020. Sweden and US are projected at about 6 and 7% respectively.

German stats are a bit of an outlier in that they got on top of test and trace very early and kept their deaths down. German restrictions have also been lighter than the European average as seen by spectators at bundesliga matches so Germany's figure reaffirms the point, stringent lockdown= economic damage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 27, 2020, 03:02:04 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 27, 2020, 02:56:14 PM
Economic contraction in spain Italy France uk are all projected at over 11% for 2020. Sweden and US are projected at about 6 and 7% respectively.

and Germany of course.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on September 27, 2020, 03:11:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 09:15:12 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 26, 2020, 08:49:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 01:42:27 PM
This thread is well worth reading

https://twitter.com/ChrChristensen/status/1309668851387334663

1) As a US citizen in Sweden, I'm disturbed when I see the US right push the "Swedish model" for dealing with COVID19. It's an utterly cynical, disingenuous position that goes far beyond the question of lockdowns and masks, and highlights what's rotten at the core of US society.

2) The US political right are using a misleading vision of Sweden's COVID19 policy to promote a brutal philosophy of savage individualism, fatalism and "freedom from government." The irony of this position is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

3) Sweden's COVID policy hardly a success (6000 dead), but natl. policy can only be understood as inseparable from Sweden's developed welfare state, social system: universal healthcare, paid sick leave, paid leave to care for sick kids, subsidized daycare & pre/after-school care.

4) For many Swedes, social security policies in place mean getting COVID not a crushing financial blow; or, if jobs are lost, the state will help to support you. It's impossible — and frankly stupid — to even try to see Sweden's COVID19 strategy as separated from these policies.

5) So, it's some pretty cynical bullshit for US right-wingers who have, under the banner of "Small Government" and "Liberty," devoted their lives to  crushing universal healthcare and other humane social policies now claim to support the "Swedish model" for tackling COVID19.

6) In pushing US version of "Swedish model" for COVID19 (in other words, w/none of the Swedish healthcare, social programs), the US right is just telling citizens to enjoy their "liberty" without restriction, but if they get sick, spouse gets sick, company goes bust...tough shit.

7) Let's also be clear that even w/Sweden's relatively developed, generous social policies, many here are struggling, and many in low-paying part-time jobs must continue to work even when they suspect they're sick. So, pushing a "Swedish approach" w/even fewer safety nets? Crazy.


9) And we should never let it slip through cracks that in Sweden, just as in US, minorities have been hit disproportionately hard by COVID19, in large part due to relative poverty and the type of employment. Making access to healthcare and social programs all the more important.

A very strange reading of the situation. The fear from a large scale Covid outbreak is not financial ruin for those who are infected but their deaths. The US government is pushing for lower restrictions to prevent a widespread financial crisis that they would be unable/willing to provide social security for those affected.

The situation is the exact reverse in Sweden, a welfare state. Their Covid policy stands in direct conflict with, rather than consistent with their social policies. If anything it would have made more sense for Sweden to employ a widespread lockdown given that they would have committed to supporting businesses/ providing social security etc.

Quote8) Political right cherry-pick two issues from Sweden — lockdowns, masks — & pitch them as symbols of "freedom." But real freedom comes from not being bankrupted by illness, paying for childcare, sudden unemployment. The right wants you to forget the second half of that equation.

He precisely misses the point here. The US non-restriction policy is promoting economic welfare over the health of its citizens. So they're trying to provide "freedom" from sudden unemployment, bankruptcy etc but potentially at the cost of human lives.

How does he miss the point?

One of the reasons Sweden made the decision to implement the strategy they did was because they have a comprehensive welfare state that could cushion the blow of getting ill for people - I happen to think their strategy was wrong for other reasons, chiefly that it frontloaded a large number of deaths, which in my view is immoral - but there was at least some sort of a tenuous logic to their strategy given they have a comprehensive welfare state - they believed they could cushion the blow for people who fell ill and that the fall back of their welfare state would help people people to act responsibly, while reducing their economic hit

They were also wrong about the economic hit, suffering the worst of the Nordic countries

That's not surprising - economic health and public health go together, they are not in opposition

Philip Boucher Hayes explained the situation as regards living conditions, sick pay, school class sizes and the health system to Johan Giesecke during the week and all but got him to admit that Sweden's system is not an option for Ireland

In the US you have the worst of all worlds - a shambolic federal pandemic response with no welfare state and terrible working rights for most people, and a disinformation war

This is the point that has become front and centre here in Ireland lately - we have no comprehensive sick pay system - so because many people live in fear of losing their income, they have a vested interest in going to work if if they suspect they may have Covid

The writer's main point is that Sweden's strategy has been hijacked by right-wing politics internationally for nefarious means

He's absolutely right about that

The word "freedom" has been hijacked by the right-wing internationally - in reality it means the opposite of freedom - it means the destruction of regulation and welfare states and the freedom of the ultra-rich to live like kings at the expense of everybody else

They will use literally anything to spin bad faith, fake narratives as propaganda

Being anti-mask is the latest opportunist avenue and hijacking Sweden's Covid strategy for their own ends is another

But they despise everything else about Swedish society

The regime in the US does not care whether even its own supporters live or die, it's a psychopathic, fascist regime which only cares about money, power and immunity from prosecution and is willing to do literally anything and use literally anything to ensure such

So you believe Sweden's Non-restriction policies were compatible with their welfare policies? If so should other welfare nations like Germany, UK, Spain not followed suit?

Also they weren't wrong about the economic hit. They've had a much smaller economic contraction than the EU average.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on September 27, 2020, 03:14:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 27, 2020, 03:02:04 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 27, 2020, 02:56:14 PM
Economic contraction in spain Italy France uk are all projected at over 11% for 2020. Sweden and US are projected at about 6 and 7% respectively.

and Germany of course.

Where the lockdown was also less stringent.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 27, 2020, 03:39:50 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 27, 2020, 03:11:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 09:15:12 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 26, 2020, 08:49:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 26, 2020, 01:42:27 PM
This thread is well worth reading

https://twitter.com/ChrChristensen/status/1309668851387334663

1) As a US citizen in Sweden, I'm disturbed when I see the US right push the "Swedish model" for dealing with COVID19. It's an utterly cynical, disingenuous position that goes far beyond the question of lockdowns and masks, and highlights what's rotten at the core of US society.

2) The US political right are using a misleading vision of Sweden's COVID19 policy to promote a brutal philosophy of savage individualism, fatalism and "freedom from government." The irony of this position is so thick you can cut it with a knife.

3) Sweden's COVID policy hardly a success (6000 dead), but natl. policy can only be understood as inseparable from Sweden's developed welfare state, social system: universal healthcare, paid sick leave, paid leave to care for sick kids, subsidized daycare & pre/after-school care.

4) For many Swedes, social security policies in place mean getting COVID not a crushing financial blow; or, if jobs are lost, the state will help to support you. It's impossible — and frankly stupid — to even try to see Sweden's COVID19 strategy as separated from these policies.

5) So, it's some pretty cynical bullshit for US right-wingers who have, under the banner of "Small Government" and "Liberty," devoted their lives to  crushing universal healthcare and other humane social policies now claim to support the "Swedish model" for tackling COVID19.

6) In pushing US version of "Swedish model" for COVID19 (in other words, w/none of the Swedish healthcare, social programs), the US right is just telling citizens to enjoy their "liberty" without restriction, but if they get sick, spouse gets sick, company goes bust...tough shit.

7) Let's also be clear that even w/Sweden's relatively developed, generous social policies, many here are struggling, and many in low-paying part-time jobs must continue to work even when they suspect they're sick. So, pushing a "Swedish approach" w/even fewer safety nets? Crazy.


9) And we should never let it slip through cracks that in Sweden, just as in US, minorities have been hit disproportionately hard by COVID19, in large part due to relative poverty and the type of employment. Making access to healthcare and social programs all the more important.

A very strange reading of the situation. The fear from a large scale Covid outbreak is not financial ruin for those who are infected but their deaths. The US government is pushing for lower restrictions to prevent a widespread financial crisis that they would be unable/willing to provide social security for those affected.

The situation is the exact reverse in Sweden, a welfare state. Their Covid policy stands in direct conflict with, rather than consistent with their social policies. If anything it would have made more sense for Sweden to employ a widespread lockdown given that they would have committed to supporting businesses/ providing social security etc.

Quote8) Political right cherry-pick two issues from Sweden — lockdowns, masks — & pitch them as symbols of "freedom." But real freedom comes from not being bankrupted by illness, paying for childcare, sudden unemployment. The right wants you to forget the second half of that equation.

He precisely misses the point here. The US non-restriction policy is promoting economic welfare over the health of its citizens. So they're trying to provide "freedom" from sudden unemployment, bankruptcy etc but potentially at the cost of human lives.

How does he miss the point?

One of the reasons Sweden made the decision to implement the strategy they did was because they have a comprehensive welfare state that could cushion the blow of getting ill for people - I happen to think their strategy was wrong for other reasons, chiefly that it frontloaded a large number of deaths, which in my view is immoral - but there was at least some sort of a tenuous logic to their strategy given they have a comprehensive welfare state - they believed they could cushion the blow for people who fell ill and that the fall back of their welfare state would help people people to act responsibly, while reducing their economic hit

They were also wrong about the economic hit, suffering the worst of the Nordic countries

That's not surprising - economic health and public health go together, they are not in opposition

Philip Boucher Hayes explained the situation as regards living conditions, sick pay, school class sizes and the health system to Johan Giesecke during the week and all but got him to admit that Sweden's system is not an option for Ireland

In the US you have the worst of all worlds - a shambolic federal pandemic response with no welfare state and terrible working rights for most people, and a disinformation war

This is the point that has become front and centre here in Ireland lately - we have no comprehensive sick pay system - so because many people live in fear of losing their income, they have a vested interest in going to work if if they suspect they may have Covid

The writer's main point is that Sweden's strategy has been hijacked by right-wing politics internationally for nefarious means

He's absolutely right about that

The word "freedom" has been hijacked by the right-wing internationally - in reality it means the opposite of freedom - it means the destruction of regulation and welfare states and the freedom of the ultra-rich to live like kings at the expense of everybody else

They will use literally anything to spin bad faith, fake narratives as propaganda

Being anti-mask is the latest opportunist avenue and hijacking Sweden's Covid strategy for their own ends is another

But they despise everything else about Swedish society

The regime in the US does not care whether even its own supporters live or die, it's a psychopathic, fascist regime which only cares about money, power and immunity from prosecution and is willing to do literally anything and use literally anything to ensure such

So you believe Sweden's Non-restriction policies were compatible with their welfare policies? If so should other welfare nations like Germany, UK, Spain not followed suit?

Also they weren't wrong about the economic hit. They've had a much smaller economic contraction than the EU average.

They believed it

And they are correct that the only way you can implement such a policy - if that's what you decide - is with comprehensive welfare

And yes they were wrong abut the economic hit

All the other Nordic countries who locked down, took less of an economic hit than Sweden did

Now, tell me how you think Swedish policy would have worked out with none of the comprehensive welfare supports, ie. with US ones?

We already have a very good idea about this, so that should help you along in your guess
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 27, 2020, 05:40:52 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 27, 2020, 03:14:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 27, 2020, 03:02:04 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 27, 2020, 02:56:14 PM
Economic contraction in spain Italy France uk are all projected at over 11% for 2020. Sweden and US are projected at about 6 and 7% respectively.

and Germany of course.

Where the lockdown was also less stringent.

Which is the chicken and which is the egg. If you control the spread of the virus then you don't need a hard lockdown. In Italy, things had got out of control in the North and lesser measures were not a choice at that stage.
Lesser measures would have done in most parts of the US too, unlike New York etc. However, they were too greedy and didn't even keep the lesser measures going long enough and so ended up in the mess they are in.

And of course the Chinese economy will grow this year, it did have a lockdown but it got the job done and the economy came back.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 27, 2020, 06:36:21 PM
End the week with a high number once more, 430  cases from which 212 was in Dublin.

Weekly numbers for the ROI.

Cases 2,084 (102 more cases than last week but from a lot more testing)

Reported deaths 10 ( same as last week)

In hospital 108 (increase of 26)
In ICU 18 (increase of 1)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on September 27, 2020, 08:18:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 27, 2020, 05:40:52 PM
And of course the Chinese economy will grow this year, it did have a lockdown but it got the job done and the economy came back.

Yep - fundamentally the quicker you intervene and the heavier that intervention - the better you will be in the long run.


The west at large continue to dither and dilute measures and unfortunately this winter (without any vaccine) is likely to see grim statistics as a result.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2020, 08:40:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 27, 2020, 08:18:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 27, 2020, 05:40:52 PM
And of course the Chinese economy will grow this year, it did have a lockdown but it got the job done and the economy came back.

Yep - fundamentally the quicker you intervene and the heavier that intervention - the better you will be in the long run.


The west at large continue to dither and dilute measures and unfortunately this winter (without any vaccine) is likely to see grim statistics as a result.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-09-25/us-coronavirus-expert-dr-anthony-fauci-cautiously-optimistic-we-will-have-vaccine-by-christmas
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on September 28, 2020, 09:09:02 AM
Looks like a new nasal spray can be developed as a preventative measure. Only going to human trials. Is there no quicker way to test these things quicker?

We have plenty of scum around the world in jails that might want to repent and give something back to the world.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on September 28, 2020, 09:26:29 AM
Out of 300 vaccines trialled and only 9 have made it through to human trials. 5 of these are Chinese.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on September 28, 2020, 10:51:20 AM
Quote from: highorlow on September 28, 2020, 09:09:02 AM
Looks like a new nasal spray can be developed as a preventative measure. Only going to human trials. Is there no quicker way to test these things quicker?

We have plenty of scum around the world in jails that might want to repent and give something back to the world.

Jesus Christ  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 28, 2020, 11:21:03 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on September 28, 2020, 09:26:29 AM
Out of 300 vaccines trialled and only 9 have made it through to human trials. 5 of these are Chinese.

There are 42 vaccines in human trials, with 11 in phase 3 so far. There are also 93 vaccines in pre-clinical animal studies. The Chinese are ahead, they had humans to try it on at an early stage.
It is certainly a record scientific endeavour.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on September 28, 2020, 11:24:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2020, 08:40:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 27, 2020, 08:18:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 27, 2020, 05:40:52 PM
And of course the Chinese economy will grow this year, it did have a lockdown but it got the job done and the economy came back.

Yep - fundamentally the quicker you intervene and the heavier that intervention - the better you will be in the long run.


The west at large continue to dither and dilute measures and unfortunately this winter (without any vaccine) is likely to see grim statistics as a result.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-09-25/us-coronavirus-expert-dr-anthony-fauci-cautiously-optimistic-we-will-have-vaccine-by-christmas

Unfortunately (and somewhat counter intuitively) this could be quite bad timing.

A vaccine available in quantities of a few million this winter could lead to folks largely dismissing measures and going back to normal life thinking "its all right, there is a vaccine now" - but with absolutely no chance of herd immunity being built up due to the insignificant number of vaccinations available, it'd then be a bit of a disaster in terms of virus spread.

Hopefully not of course, but its something you could easily see happening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 28, 2020, 11:32:59 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 28, 2020, 11:24:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2020, 08:40:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 27, 2020, 08:18:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 27, 2020, 05:40:52 PM
And of course the Chinese economy will grow this year, it did have a lockdown but it got the job done and the economy came back.

Yep - fundamentally the quicker you intervene and the heavier that intervention - the better you will be in the long run.


The west at large continue to dither and dilute measures and unfortunately this winter (without any vaccine) is likely to see grim statistics as a result.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-09-25/us-coronavirus-expert-dr-anthony-fauci-cautiously-optimistic-we-will-have-vaccine-by-christmas

Unfortunately (and somewhat counter intuitively) this could be quite bad timing.

A vaccine available in quantities of a few million this winter could lead to folks largely dismissing measures and going back to normal life thinking "its all right, there is a vaccine now" - but with absolutely no chance of herd immunity being built up due to the insignificant number of vaccinations available, it'd then be a bit of a disaster in terms of virus spread.

Hopefully not of course, but its something you could easily see happening.

Especially in the US you could see Trump declaring victory because of a vaccine that would not be available in any quantity until summer 2021 and everyone having a great Christmas on this basis, leading to lockdown January and many people dying a few weeks from a vaccine being available.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GJL on September 28, 2020, 11:49:47 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 28, 2020, 11:32:59 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 28, 2020, 11:24:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2020, 08:40:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 27, 2020, 08:18:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 27, 2020, 05:40:52 PM
And of course the Chinese economy will grow this year, it did have a lockdown but it got the job done and the economy came back.

Yep - fundamentally the quicker you intervene and the heavier that intervention - the better you will be in the long run.


The west at large continue to dither and dilute measures and unfortunately this winter (without any vaccine) is likely to see grim statistics as a result.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-09-25/us-coronavirus-expert-dr-anthony-fauci-cautiously-optimistic-we-will-have-vaccine-by-christmas

Unfortunately (and somewhat counter intuitively) this could be quite bad timing.

A vaccine available in quantities of a few million this winter could lead to folks largely dismissing measures and going back to normal life thinking "its all right, there is a vaccine now" - but with absolutely no chance of herd immunity being built up due to the insignificant number of vaccinations available, it'd then be a bit of a disaster in terms of virus spread.

Hopefully not of course, but its something you could easily see happening.

Especially in the US you could see Trump declaring victory because of a vaccine that would not be available in any quantity until summer 2021 and everyone having a great Christmas on this basis, leading to lockdown January and many people dying a few weeks from a vaccine being available.

He could be gone by then.... fingers crossed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 28, 2020, 12:05:55 PM
Quote from: highorlow on September 28, 2020, 09:09:02 AM
Looks like a new nasal spray can be developed as a preventative measure. Only going to human trials. Is there no quicker way to test these things quicker?

We have plenty of scum around the world in jails that might want to repent and give something back to the world.

A very Duterte like approach.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2020, 01:16:09 PM
Daughter is staying in Halls at Queens and they have closed one of the blocks and the students must stay in and isolate!

Been a horrible experience for first year students, and the learning experience is a bit crap also, but hey, they need the money I suppose
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tyrdub on September 28, 2020, 01:18:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2020, 01:16:09 PM
Daughter is staying in Halls at Queens and they have closed one of the blocks and the students must stay in and isolate!

Been a horrible experience for first year students, and the learning experience is a bit crap also, but hey, they need the money I suppose

Now now, I work in QUB, was up in the halls at Elms last week, even your hair would go curly with some of the stories I heard lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on September 28, 2020, 01:22:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2020, 01:16:09 PM
Daughter is staying in Halls at Queens and they have closed one of the blocks and the students must stay in and isolate!

Been a horrible experience for first year students, and the learning experience is a bit crap also, but hey, they need the money I suppose

How are they enforcing that?

are you heading up with the food parcels later?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on September 28, 2020, 01:32:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2020, 01:16:09 PM
Daughter is staying in Halls at Queens and they have closed one of the blocks and the students must stay in and isolate!

Been a horrible experience for first year students, and the learning experience is a bit crap also, but hey, they need the money I suppose

Feel sorry for them, Uni's took the piss earlier this year by refusing to give any discount and now this.

Any idea why they are reporting students in halls may not be allowed home for xmas? Its 12 weeks ago, I'm not following the logic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2020, 04:08:24 PM
They are patrolling the Hals and if people are not adhering to the rules they'll let the students know of what's expected and if they still don't adhere to that then warnings will be given. I guess the approach of isolating a block rather than the whole place is a better option, the kids are being asked where they are going when they leave the grounds lol! 

On a floor you've 11 rooms, and kitchen sitting area, only 6 are allowed in at one time, and obviously no one is allowed into the dorms..

As Tyrdub has said some kids are taking the piss, imagine 18 year old's away from the house going a bit mad! My problem is why open the Halls and then have online lessons (which are pre recorded, not live) is it purely money?

I'd be happy to save myself a few quid and my daughter stay at home and do the lessons at home
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 28, 2020, 04:16:10 PM
I think students are being shafted. This whole thing is just blame one group of people after another - they're the latest in a long line which will most likely get longer.

I don't understand why they're paying to stay in halls and then going to online lessons. It doesn't make any sense barring money.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 28, 2020, 04:39:15 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 28, 2020, 04:16:10 PM
I think students are being shafted. This whole thing is just blame one group of people after another - they're the latest in a long line which will most likely get longer.

I don't understand why they're paying to stay in halls and then going to online lessons. It doesn't make any sense barring money.

True, basically the Covid response that I've seen in most is quick, lets blame so and so.....as long as it's ok for me to go about my daily routine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2020, 04:49:50 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 28, 2020, 04:16:10 PM
I think students Parents are being shafted. This whole thing is just blame one group of people after another - they're the latest in a long line which will most likely get longer.

I don't understand why they're paying to stay in halls and then going to online lessons. It doesn't make any sense barring money.

Fixed that  ;)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on September 28, 2020, 10:30:28 PM
Quote from: GJL on September 28, 2020, 11:49:47 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 28, 2020, 11:32:59 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 28, 2020, 11:24:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 27, 2020, 08:40:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 27, 2020, 08:18:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 27, 2020, 05:40:52 PM
And of course the Chinese economy will grow this year, it did have a lockdown but it got the job done and the economy came back.

Yep - fundamentally the quicker you intervene and the heavier that intervention - the better you will be in the long run.


The west at large continue to dither and dilute measures and unfortunately this winter (without any vaccine) is likely to see grim statistics as a result.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-09-25/us-coronavirus-expert-dr-anthony-fauci-cautiously-optimistic-we-will-have-vaccine-by-christmas

Unfortunately (and somewhat counter intuitively) this could be quite bad timing.

A vaccine available in quantities of a few million this winter could lead to folks largely dismissing measures and going back to normal life thinking "its all right, there is a vaccine now" - but with absolutely no chance of herd immunity being built up due to the insignificant number of vaccinations available, it'd then be a bit of a disaster in terms of virus spread.

Hopefully not of course, but its something you could easily see happening.

Especially in the US you could see Trump declaring victory because of a vaccine that would not be available in any quantity until summer 2021 and everyone having a great Christmas on this basis, leading to lockdown January and many people dying a few weeks from a vaccine being available.

He could be gone by then.... fingers crossed.

He'll be there until Jan at a minimum
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 29, 2020, 09:24:07 AM
Meanwhile in Galway there were loads of people congregating around the Spanish Arch area last night.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on September 29, 2020, 09:30:46 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 29, 2020, 09:24:07 AM
Meanwhile in Galway there were loads of people congregating around the Spanish Arch area last night.

It's time to bring out the Taser gun
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 29, 2020, 10:37:24 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on September 29, 2020, 09:30:46 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 29, 2020, 09:24:07 AM
Meanwhile in Galway there were loads of people congregating around the Spanish Arch area last night.

It's time to bring out the Taser gun

One of those high pitched noise generators or playing Big Tom records might be less likely to have you accused of breaching human rights.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on September 29, 2020, 10:44:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2020, 04:08:24 PM
They are patrolling the Hals and if people are not adhering to the rules they'll let the students know of what's expected and if they still don't adhere to that then warnings will be given. I guess the approach of isolating a block rather than the whole place is a better option, the kids are being asked where they are going when they leave the grounds lol! 

On a floor you've 11 rooms, and kitchen sitting area, only 6 are allowed in at one time, and obviously no one is allowed into the dorms..

As Tyrdub has said some kids are taking the piss, imagine 18 year old's away from the house going a bit mad! My problem is why open the Halls and then have online lessons (which are pre recorded, not live) is it purely money?

I'd be happy to save myself a few quid and my daughter stay at home and do the lessons at home
You live in Belfast and your kid is staying in halls at QUB?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 29, 2020, 10:48:47 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 29, 2020, 09:24:07 AM
Meanwhile in Galway there were loads of people congregating around the Spanish Arch area last night.
And they're supposed to be the smart brainy ones..   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 29, 2020, 10:52:40 AM
"It's only a cold"
"Let everyone get it so we can have immunity"
"It only effects the old"

Tell that to this poor woman

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0929/1168119-life-after-covid-19/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 29, 2020, 10:55:14 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 29, 2020, 10:52:40 AM
"It's only a cold"
"Let everyone get it so we can have immunity"
"It only effects the old"

Tell that to this poor woman

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0929/1168119-life-after-covid-19/

I don't think anyone denies the effects of Covid v Flu, now the results are in, so to speak.

But for every story like this, there are unknown thousands that get it and are just fine. Negative news sells unfortunately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dougal Maguire on September 29, 2020, 11:03:54 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on September 29, 2020, 10:44:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2020, 04:08:24 PM
They are patrolling the Hals and if people are not adhering to the rules they'll let the students know of what's expected and if they still don't adhere to that then warnings will be given. I guess the approach of isolating a block rather than the whole place is a better option, the kids are being asked where they are going when they leave the grounds lol! 

On a floor you've 11 rooms, and kitchen sitting area, only 6 are allowed in at one time, and obviously no one is allowed into the dorms..

As Tyrdub has said some kids are taking the piss, imagine 18 year old's away from the house going a bit mad! My problem is why open the Halls and then have online lessons (which are pre recorded, not live) is it purely money?

I'd be happy to save myself a few quid and my daughter stay at home and do the lessons at home
You live in Belfast and your kid is staying in halls at QUB?
And what's wrong with that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on September 29, 2020, 11:43:15 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on September 29, 2020, 10:55:14 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 29, 2020, 10:52:40 AM
"It's only a cold"
"Let everyone get it so we can have immunity"
"It only effects the old"

Tell that to this poor woman

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0929/1168119-life-after-covid-19/

I don't think anyone denies the effects of Covid v Flu, now the results are in, so to speak.

But for every story like this, there are unknown thousands that get it and are just fine. Negative news sells unfortunately.

+1, in any statisical distrubution of the population there is always extreme cases. How many of us know people in their 30's & 40's who went to bed seemingly healthy & never woke up? But sure I'm a covid denier eh Rossfan.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 29, 2020, 12:10:55 PM
Yeah some people are a bit quick to jump on the deny stuff and if there's any sign of denying anything then they get labelled a denier and then just get called Karen...

It's pretty clear the impacts of this thing. Doesn't make all the restrictions correct in how they've been implemented especially when university students in particular have been hung out to dry. Schools you can kind of see that to some degree they are needed for economies(or no one can work) but universities they have stuffed up entirely and worst of all from the outside it just looks like wanting money. Also the not allowed in people like your parents house when you could actually go in briefly and be responsible is a nonsense. Sit 2 metres apart and wash your hands on the way in and way out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 29, 2020, 12:31:18 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on September 29, 2020, 10:44:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2020, 04:08:24 PM
They are patrolling the Hals and if people are not adhering to the rules they'll let the students know of what's expected and if they still don't adhere to that then warnings will be given. I guess the approach of isolating a block rather than the whole place is a better option, the kids are being asked where they are going when they leave the grounds lol! 

On a floor you've 11 rooms, and kitchen sitting area, only 6 are allowed in at one time, and obviously no one is allowed into the dorms..

As Tyrdub has said some kids are taking the piss, imagine 18 year old's away from the house going a bit mad! My problem is why open the Halls and then have online lessons (which are pre recorded, not live) is it purely money?

I'd be happy to save myself a few quid and my daughter stay at home and do the lessons at home
You live in Belfast and your kid is staying in halls at QUB?

I have lived Jordanstown (15 minutes up the road  :-X ) for 20 odd years now, and she wants the 'student experience' whatever that is at the moment, I wasnt a student myself but certainly lived the student life back in the day!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on September 29, 2020, 12:53:39 PM
I think it's good that RTÉ are running more stories about actual cases that have caused problems even after Covid has gone, just so people are kept aware and don't forget that you don't really want to be getting this.

I've a close relative in the UK in her late 30s with a similar story to the one linked above. No history, took a long time to get rid of Covid, left with lung scarring, respiratory issues and onsets of extreme fatigue.

I've an aunt in her early 70s who, up to Christmas, was enjoying her retirement and had just treated herself to a new car. Had a fall. Needed an op on her back and neck. Big op but all went well, would need 2/3 months recuperation, but prognosis was good. Went into a nursing home to recuperate as was laid up. Nursing home took in non-Covid patients from Beaumont as Beamount had to free up beds for the incoming first Covid wave. Covid got into the nursing home, most of the residents got it, many died, my aunt got it and survived. But with Covid gone, she's been left with Parkinson's.

Covid is known to cause issues with heart, lungs and brain. Nobody knows if the Parkinson's caused the fall, the fall caused the Parkinson's, or Covid caused the Parkinson's. But every chance Covid exacerbated it or maybe even caused it, given it came as a complete surprise to us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 29, 2020, 01:06:42 PM
Stop being negative Hound sure they're only statistics according to some geniuses!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on September 29, 2020, 01:34:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 29, 2020, 01:06:42 PM
Stop being negative Hound sure they're only statistics according to some geniuses!!

The whole basis for any scientific study is based on data & stats. It proves or dis-proves a theory based on populations of standard sampling. Your an annoying kind of fella, with your constant snide remarks. Very little substance to your posts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on September 29, 2020, 01:36:02 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/29/coronavirus-deaths-hit-one-million-many-lives-will-claim/

'An increase in deaths is inevitable'
Devi Sridhar, professor of global public health, University of Edinburgh
"Deaths are still going to continue to climb as the number of new cases hasn't levelled off and we haven't reached the peak yet. In countries like Brazil, India, Russia and the US the disease is not under control.
"Realistically, we're still going to see more cases and deaths to come, especially as we hit winter in the northern hemisphere.
"At the beginning of the pandemic, people asked: 'What is South Korea and Germany's secret? How did they keep deaths low?' But they had early intervention and could offer top medical care.
"But if hospitals become overwhelmed and people aren't admitted, then the case fatality rate (CFR) will increase because survival depends on medical care.
"Now, the CFR is about 0.6 per cent and people are saying the disease isn't that serious. But the CFR will stay low only if people can get care when they need it.


"In developing countries, it's hard to predict what will happen. In Africa, the pandemic has not hit as we predicted. Having read across the literature, there's not one proven conclusion. In sub-Saharan Africa, countries reacted really quickly and many shut their borders before they had even one case.
"In India the virus ripped through slums, but the fatality was not that high. In these very poor contexts, there's already been some kind of self-selection. These communities face continuing infectious disease outbreaks – TB, malaria, diarrhoea and pneumonia – and you have a young population. When the virus came, many of the vulnerable would already have been taken out by that – this doesn't happen in high income countries.

"There's a six to seven-week lag between a case and a death, so I think we will continue to see numbers climbing – these big increases in cases here and in Europe will see deaths later down the line. The pandemic has a way to go, so sadly an increase is inevitable."


'It could easily spin out of control'
Martin McKee, professor of European public health, London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine
"At the minute, case numbers are doubling every week and the really important point is that we're talking about exponential growth – so if nothing else changes you get one case, then two, four, eight, 16, etc. The rate of increase in absolute numbers is accelerating, so numbers can increase very quickly and the pandemic can easily spin out of control.
"We understand the disease a lot better now and know more about its transmission. We know it collects in the mouth and saliva, so being indoors with other people who may be infected is not going to be a good idea over the winter.
"We have also had a substantial improvement in treatment outcomes – at the beginning, everyone thought it was a viral pneumonia but then people realised blood was clotting and doctors put people on anti-coagulants and the steroid dexamethasone. Survival rates have definitely been improving.
"In Africa, there seems to be some protective immunity and there is a suggestion that people who have had parasitic worm infections have some kind of immunity – but the big factor in Africa affecting death rates is low levels of obesity.

Workers disinfect a grave of a person who died from Covid-19 in Gulu, northern Uganda  CREDIT: SOPA
"In Latin America, there are high levels of obesity and so you see high numbers of deaths in places like Peru and Ecuador.
"There is also a lot of variation in how people record deaths – you have to be very careful with the data. In the UK, reporting is changed so a death is counted as someone who dies within 28 days of having a positive test. But that's not that reliable. What everyone is now recognising is that the best way to measure deaths is excess all-cause mortality."
'We are by no means out of the woods yet'

Charlie Whittaker, researcher in infectious disease epidemiology, Imperial College, London
"We have an increasing number of effective drugs which, accompanied by improved clinical management, has contributed to reductions in Covid-19 mortality.
"The average age of cases has also dropped (seen in the chart below). Early on in the epidemic, a lot of our cases and associated deaths were in elderly populations. Now more young people are being affected and they have a lower, though not non-existent, risk of severe disease and death.
"But that doesn't mean that good news is necessarily on the horizon – because if you look at what's happened with some US states, like Florida, increases in cases in younger age groups tend to be followed by spread to other groups, specifically the elderly, the vulnerable and those most at risk from Covid-19.
"And we're now beginning to see that in the UK, where hospitals admissions have also begun to increase.

Protecting the elderly, who are more at risk of the disease, will be key to stopping the spread CREDIT: Chris de Bode for The Telegraph
"As we've seen across Europe, a lot of the gains that we've made in terms of suppressing the virus and reducing mortality are fragile. And we're by no means out of the woods just yet.
"Many countries in sub-Saharan Africa took rapid and decisive steps to curb spread of the virus and avoid large scale epidemics like we've seen across Europe to date – it's quite possible they haven't felt the full force of the pandemic, although it's difficult to tell.
"The quality of the systems that exist for reporting deaths vary so much between countries. Syria's an example of this: if you look at officially reported Covid-19 deaths coming out of Damascus, less than 100 have been reported since the first one back in March.
"Work we've carried out with Syrian doctors, however, examining excess mortality statistics and other sources of death data, including Facebook memorial groups, suggests as many as 4,500 deaths, meaning that only about one in 80 Covid-19 deaths has been included in the official mortality statistics coming out of the country.
"Lingering limitations in testing capacity and the difficulty of recording deaths outside hospitals in settings like these make accurate detection of the true burden challenging.
"This highlights the extent to which Covid-19 might have spread unobserved across many parts of the world that don't have the necessary systems in place to accurately capture patterns of mortality."
Two million deaths by the turn of the New Year
Epidemiologists have the unenviable task of trying to predict how the virus will take shape in the coming weeks and months.
According to projections collected by the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the death toll in the United States could climb by more than 20,000 to more than 225,000 by October 17.
Some models predict much higher deaths tolls, with Texas Tech University projecting 244,000 deaths by mid-October.
And analysis carried out by Imperial College, London, estimates that, over the next week, five countries will accumulate more than 1,000 additional deaths each – Brazil, India, Mexico, Columbia and Argentina.
The number of new deaths being reported in India alone is expected to pass 8,500 a week.


Most models err on the side of caution and do not publish estimates further than a few weeks ahead, due to the sheer number of variables involved.
But models projecting the spread of the virus up to the end of the year have been made by the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME).
At the most conservative estimate, the global death toll is expected to pass two million by the turn of the New Year:
The team project that some of the hardest-hit world regions will include South Asia, Europe and Central Asia, with deaths anticipated to climb above 600,000 in each region.
More conservative estimates put the tally at below 500,000 in each region.
It is impossible to know exactly what the death toll will be, of course. What experts do agree on is that the impact of the virus will get worse and more people will lose their lives.
Last month, WHO director general, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, said the pandemic could last up to two years.
"We have a disadvantage of globalisation, closeness, connectedness, but an advantage of better technology, so we hope to finish this pandemic before less than two years," he said.
By "utilising the available tools to the maximum and hoping that we can have additional tools like vaccines, I think we can finish it in a shorter time than the 1918 flu", he added.
Only time will tell.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 29, 2020, 01:41:54 PM
Quote from: Rudi on September 29, 2020, 01:34:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 29, 2020, 01:06:42 PM
Stop being negative Hound sure they're only statistics according to some geniuses!!

The whole basis for any scientific study is based on data & stats. It proves or dis-proves a theory based on populations of standard sampling. Your an annoying kind of fella, with your constant snide remarks. Very little substance to your posts.

Easier to spit than swallow.....as the old saying goes  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 29, 2020, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Rudi on September 29, 2020, 01:34:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 29, 2020, 01:06:42 PM
Stop being negative Hound sure they're only statistics according to some geniuses!!

The whole basis for any scientific study is based on data & stats. It proves or dis-proves a theory based on populations of standard sampling. Your an annoying kind of fella, with your constant snide remarks. Very little substance to your posts.
Why don't you contact Ms Sheerin and tell her to stop being negative and that she's only a statistic?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: supersarsfields on September 29, 2020, 01:47:24 PM
Quote from: Rudi on September 29, 2020, 01:34:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 29, 2020, 01:06:42 PM
Stop being negative Hound sure they're only statistics according to some geniuses!!

The whole basis for any scientific study is based on data & stats. It proves or dis-proves a theory based on populations of standard sampling. Your an annoying kind of fella, with your constant snide remarks. Very little substance to your posts.

I don't agree with you on Covid but 100% agree with this. Rossfan's attempt to shout down/ belittle people with different view points is seriously irritating. The Karen posts of a month or two back being prime examples. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 29, 2020, 01:50:45 PM
I would second that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 29, 2020, 02:12:09 PM
He's a believer folks. If you're not 100% with him, then it can only be because you're an absolute moron.

Sadly, Rossfan's dogmatic crusade in confirmation bias is a hallmark of the modern world.



It's sad really. The internet was meant to educate and enlighten us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 29, 2020, 02:17:52 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 29, 2020, 02:12:09 PM
He's a believer folks. If you're not 100% with him, then it can only be because you're an absolute moron.

Sadly, Rossfan's dogmatic crusade in confirmation bias is a hallmark of the modern world.



It's sad really. The internet was meant to educate and enlighten us.

Probably could apply this to another 3 or 4 on this board.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 02:26:41 PM
The self pity mob are piling it on rich and thick this afternoon

Must be great to be a fake victim all the time

Saves having to debate  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 02:27:41 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 29, 2020, 02:12:09 PM
He's a believer folks. If you're not 100% with him, then it can only be because you're an absolute moron.

Sadly, Rossfan's dogmatic crusade in confirmation bias is a hallmark of the modern world.



It's sad really. The internet was meant to educate and enlighten us.
I know, and then you came along with your terminal inanity
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 29, 2020, 03:18:05 PM
Jases I put up a link to a real article from a real ( Indo....?) Newspaper about a real person who is suffering from a disease the WHO declared to be a pandemic.
And then the Cavalry come storming over the horizon.....
How very dare Ms Sheerin to have ongoing trouble following her illness.
Some of the Cavalry need to go round and sort her out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: supersarsfields on September 29, 2020, 03:26:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 02:26:41 PM
The self pity mob are piling it on rich and thick this afternoon

Must be great to be a fake victim all the time

Saves having to debate  ;D

Rossfan's posts aren't debating. He waits until someone else does the hard work like Hound above, and the rows in with a "witty" one liner belittling other posters rather than entering into the debate.

It's not a black or white issue. Levels of restrictions required are absolutely an area for discussion. I'd side on the viewpoint of being over cautious to prevent a soar in cases again, 100 % agree that masks should be worn etc. But I can also understand other factors being discussed such as economic impacts, impact on waiting lists, mental health etc. I don't think a blanket shut down of these discussions and accusing anyone who enters into these debates as being deniers helps in any way.

Edit** Or you have the above post. No one ever said that no one gets long term effects from covid. It's a typical straw man argument.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on September 29, 2020, 03:55:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 29, 2020, 12:31:18 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on September 29, 2020, 10:44:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2020, 04:08:24 PM
They are patrolling the Hals and if people are not adhering to the rules they'll let the students know of what's expected and if they still don't adhere to that then warnings will be given. I guess the approach of isolating a block rather than the whole place is a better option, the kids are being asked where they are going when they leave the grounds lol! 

On a floor you've 11 rooms, and kitchen sitting area, only 6 are allowed in at one time, and obviously no one is allowed into the dorms..

As Tyrdub has said some kids are taking the piss, imagine 18 year old's away from the house going a bit mad! My problem is why open the Halls and then have online lessons (which are pre recorded, not live) is it purely money?

I'd be happy to save myself a few quid and my daughter stay at home and do the lessons at home
You live in Belfast and your kid is staying in halls at QUB?

I have lived Jordanstown (15 minutes up the road  :-X ) for 20 odd years now, and she wants the 'student experience' whatever that is at the moment, I wasnt a student myself but certainly lived the student life back in the day!
Jesus didnt know that would be the done thing. Seems like more money than sense to me ;D. Hi but at least they are out of the house.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 29, 2020, 04:06:33 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on September 29, 2020, 03:55:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 29, 2020, 12:31:18 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on September 29, 2020, 10:44:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2020, 04:08:24 PM
They are patrolling the Hals and if people are not adhering to the rules they'll let the students know of what's expected and if they still don't adhere to that then warnings will be given. I guess the approach of isolating a block rather than the whole place is a better option, the kids are being asked where they are going when they leave the grounds lol! 

On a floor you've 11 rooms, and kitchen sitting area, only 6 are allowed in at one time, and obviously no one is allowed into the dorms..

As Tyrdub has said some kids are taking the piss, imagine 18 year old's away from the house going a bit mad! My problem is why open the Halls and then have online lessons (which are pre recorded, not live) is it purely money?

I'd be happy to save myself a few quid and my daughter stay at home and do the lessons at home
You live in Belfast and your kid is staying in halls at QUB?

I have lived Jordanstown (15 minutes up the road  :-X ) for 20 odd years now, and she wants the 'student experience' whatever that is at the moment, I wasnt a student myself but certainly lived the student life back in the day!
Jesus didnt know that would be the done thing. Seems like more money than sense to me ;D. Hi but at least they are out of the house.

Its a pity there aren't any universities in Jordanstown or you'd save a fortune.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 29, 2020, 04:43:02 PM
Quote from: supersarsfields on September 29, 2020, 01:47:24 PM
Quote from: Rudi on September 29, 2020, 01:34:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 29, 2020, 01:06:42 PM
Stop being negative Hound sure they're only statistics according to some geniuses!!

The whole basis for any scientific study is based on data & stats. It proves or dis-proves a theory based on populations of standard sampling. Your an annoying kind of fella, with your constant snide remarks. Very little substance to your posts.

I don't agree with you on Covid but 100% agree with this. Rossfan's attempt to shout down/ belittle people with different view points is seriously irritating. The Karen posts of a month or two back being prime examples.

I can post what I like on this forum once it's not libellous and tough titty if you get irritated by Connacht ways of putting things.

If the WORLD Health Organisation declares Covid a feckin pandemic causing 150 or more Governments and National Health Bodies to get worried and bring in all sorts of measures to combat it then I'm going to take them and it serious.
A few lads on GAAboard or the thousands of facebook "experts" don't cut much ice with me.

If I'm sick I'll go to the doctor, if I want my hair cut I'll go to the barber.
Now the barber may have loads of opinions on doctors, health hospitals etc but I'll still go to the doc if I'm sick.
Geologists tell us the World is 4 or 5 Billion years old. Edwin Poots says its 6,000 years old.
I will not be debating with Poots.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 29, 2020, 04:54:52 PM
Nobody, not even me, has debated whether there is a pandemic.

But

1. What has arrived, in terms of its potency to kill, is not the same thing as what we were braced for.

2. Nobody, anywhere understands the long term impact on Covid on a previously healthy adult. There is no identifiable pattern yet. But we do know that if routine cancer testing is sidelined, it is going to set in motion a physically and mentally destructive cycle that will touch every community in Ireland and the UK.

3. If you cannot accept the above, you haven't been listening.

4.  If you can accept the above, then we possibly could do with our political leaders evaluating these circumstances with a broader focus than the opinions of epidemiologists, who by their very nature must urge caution in their area of expertise.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: supersarsfields on September 29, 2020, 04:58:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 29, 2020, 04:43:02 PM
Quote from: supersarsfields on September 29, 2020, 01:47:24 PM
Quote from: Rudi on September 29, 2020, 01:34:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 29, 2020, 01:06:42 PM
Stop being negative Hound sure they're only statistics according to some geniuses!!

The whole basis for any scientific study is based on data & stats. It proves or dis-proves a theory based on populations of standard sampling. Your an annoying kind of fella, with your constant snide remarks. Very little substance to your posts.

I don't agree with you on Covid but 100% agree with this. Rossfan's attempt to shout down/ belittle people with different view points is seriously irritating. The Karen posts of a month or two back being prime examples.

I can post what I like on this forum once it's not libellous and tough titty if you get irritated by Connacht ways of putting things.

If the WORLD Health Organisation declares Covid a feckin pandemic causing 150 or more Governments and National Health Bodies to get worried and bring in all sorts of measures to combat it then I'm going to take them and it serious.
A few lads on GAAboard or the thousands of facebook "experts" don't cut much ice with me.

If I'm sick I'll go to the doctor, if I want my hair cut I'll go to the barber.
Now the barber may have loads of opinions on doctors, health hospitals etc but I'll still go to the doc if I'm sick.
Geologists tell us the World is 4 or 5 Billion years old. Edwin Poots says its 6,000 years old.
I will not be debating with Poots.
You can absolutely post what you want just as I can make comment on those posts.

I value the debate, when engaged by both sides. I don't value people who try to belittle others viewpoints and creating strawman arguments. It drags the content of the thread down, causes entrenchment of viewpoints and adds zero to it.

Anyway, I've said my piece.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 29, 2020, 05:02:41 PM
By the way, right now I'd favour a complete, absolute bastard, shutdown for 1 month, starting immediately.

But this, I believe, can only work if all European governments do it together. That way no none of our main trading partners can benefit economically from staying open. If we all close together and open together, the impact of a recession could not be as severe. The money, the contracts, are largely paused for a month, rather than rerouted.

And then to go way back to the start of this thread: I now agree with RadioGAAGAA (if you can't change your mind when more facts are available, there is something wrong with you btw). Close all airports for domestic travel for as long as it takes. Given the choice of another year of the shite we are going through now, or a year of no travelling, it's an easy choice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on September 29, 2020, 05:20:33 PM
Good to see a debate here, Denis Rancourt has a very interesting take on things here....fairly relevant to today's arguments amongst people here


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=16&v=Rj3tDbY3gYk&feature=emb_title

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on September 29, 2020, 05:36:01 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 29, 2020, 05:02:41 PM
By the way, right now I'd favour a complete, absolute bastard, shutdown for 1 month, starting immediately.

But this, I believe, can only work if all European governments do it together. That way no none of our main trading partners can benefit economically from staying open. If we all close together and open together, the impact of a recession could not be as severe. The money, the contracts, are largely paused for a month, rather than rerouted.

And then to go way back to the start of this thread: I now agree with RadioGAAGAA (if you can't change your mind when more facts are available, there is something wrong with you btw). Close all airports for domestic travel for as long as it takes. Given the choice of another year of the shite we are going through now, or a year of no travelling, it's an easy choice.

New Zealand tried that though and thought they had eradicated Covid in their territory. Only for it to come back.

And no matter how strictly you shut down, hospitals, nursing homes, ambulances, agriculture, perishable food processing and a hundred other things have to keep going, no matter what.  Which rather defeats the point.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on September 29, 2020, 06:01:11 PM
Quote from: five points on September 29, 2020, 05:36:01 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 29, 2020, 05:02:41 PM
By the way, right now I'd favour a complete, absolute bastard, shutdown for 1 month, starting immediately.

But this, I believe, can only work if all European governments do it together. That way no none of our main trading partners can benefit economically from staying open. If we all close together and open together, the impact of a recession could not be as severe. The money, the contracts, are largely paused for a month, rather than rerouted.

And then to go way back to the start of this thread: I now agree with RadioGAAGAA (if you can't change your mind when more facts are available, there is something wrong with you btw). Close all airports for domestic travel for as long as it takes. Given the choice of another year of the shite we are going through now, or a year of no travelling, it's an easy choice.

New Zealand tried that though and thought they had eradicated Covid in their territory. Only for it to come back.

And no matter how strictly you shut down, hospitals, nursing homes, ambulances, agriculture, perishable food processing and a hundred other things have to keep going, no matter what.  Which rather defeats the point.

It only came back into NZ on food packaging. They have it back under control, everywhere is completely open again apart from auckland which is due to completely reopen very soon. Ireland could've gone for the same. A few industries would've been decimated but overall the economy would've been able to keep going. Schools, sports events etc all could've gone ahead without restrictions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 29, 2020, 06:09:12 PM
Testing improvements could be the way forward
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/29/rapid-low-cost-covid-test-world

if you had a cheap fast and decently reliable test then you could potentially do a Wuhan and test everyone two or three times in a week or two and more or less get everyone in one go.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 29, 2020, 06:14:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 29, 2020, 04:06:33 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on September 29, 2020, 03:55:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 29, 2020, 12:31:18 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on September 29, 2020, 10:44:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 28, 2020, 04:08:24 PM
They are patrolling the Hals and if people are not adhering to the rules they'll let the students know of what's expected and if they still don't adhere to that then warnings will be given. I guess the approach of isolating a block rather than the whole place is a better option, the kids are being asked where they are going when they leave the grounds lol! 

On a floor you've 11 rooms, and kitchen sitting area, only 6 are allowed in at one time, and obviously no one is allowed into the dorms..

As Tyrdub has said some kids are taking the piss, imagine 18 year old's away from the house going a bit mad! My problem is why open the Halls and then have online lessons (which are pre recorded, not live) is it purely money?

I'd be happy to save myself a few quid and my daughter stay at home and do the lessons at home
You live in Belfast and your kid is staying in halls at QUB?

I have lived Jordanstown (15 minutes up the road  :-X ) for 20 odd years now, and she wants the 'student experience' whatever that is at the moment, I wasnt a student myself but certainly lived the student life back in the day!
Jesus didnt know that would be the done thing. Seems like more money than sense to me ;D. Hi but at least they are out of the house.

Its a pity there aren't any universities in Jordanstown or you'd save a fortune.

I made an offer of £250 a month to stay at home ... or free accommodation partying as a fresher in Belfast come home weekend get fed watered and washing done.., now if I was given that opportunity I know which one I'd take.

At this rate though I doubt she'll stay , as none of the above is happening!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on September 29, 2020, 06:29:03 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 29, 2020, 06:01:11 PM
Quote from: five points on September 29, 2020, 05:36:01 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 29, 2020, 05:02:41 PM
By the way, right now I'd favour a complete, absolute bastard, shutdown for 1 month, starting immediately.

But this, I believe, can only work if all European governments do it together. That way no none of our main trading partners can benefit economically from staying open. If we all close together and open together, the impact of a recession could not be as severe. The money, the contracts, are largely paused for a month, rather than rerouted.

And then to go way back to the start of this thread: I now agree with RadioGAAGAA (if you can't change your mind when more facts are available, there is something wrong with you btw). Close all airports for domestic travel for as long as it takes. Given the choice of another year of the shite we are going through now, or a year of no travelling, it's an easy choice.

New Zealand tried that though and thought they had eradicated Covid in their territory. Only for it to come back.

And no matter how strictly you shut down, hospitals, nursing homes, ambulances, agriculture, perishable food processing and a hundred other things have to keep going, no matter what.  Which rather defeats the point.

It only came back into NZ on food packaging. They have it back under control, everywhere is completely open again apart from auckland which is due to completely reopen very soon. Ireland could've gone for the same. A few industries would've been decimated but overall the economy would've been able to keep going. Schools, sports events etc all could've gone ahead without restrictions.

It did come back though. And on that basis, we'd have to assume it'd come back here too, sooner or later. Meaning all the pain in the meantime would be pointless.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 06:34:08 PM
Quote from: five points on September 29, 2020, 05:36:01 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 29, 2020, 05:02:41 PM
By the way, right now I'd favour a complete, absolute bastard, shutdown for 1 month, starting immediately.

But this, I believe, can only work if all European governments do it together. That way no none of our main trading partners can benefit economically from staying open. If we all close together and open together, the impact of a recession could not be as severe. The money, the contracts, are largely paused for a month, rather than rerouted.

And then to go way back to the start of this thread: I now agree with RadioGAAGAA (if you can't change your mind when more facts are available, there is something wrong with you btw). Close all airports for domestic travel for as long as it takes. Given the choice of another year of the shite we are going through now, or a year of no travelling, it's an easy choice.

New Zealand tried that though and thought they had eradicated Covid in their territory. Only for it to come back.

And no matter how strictly you shut down, hospitals, nursing homes, ambulances, agriculture, perishable food processing and a hundred other things have to keep going, no matter what.  Which rather defeats the point.
New Zealand has had 5 deaths per million people

The USA has 634 deaths per million people

Who's doing a better job of dealing with this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 06:39:42 PM
Quote from: supersarsfields on September 29, 2020, 03:26:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 02:26:41 PM
The self pity mob are piling it on rich and thick this afternoon

Must be great to be a fake victim all the time

Saves having to debate  ;D

Rossfan's posts aren't debating. He waits until someone else does the hard work like Hound above, and the rows in with a "witty" one liner belittling other posters rather than entering into the debate.

It's not a black or white issue. Levels of restrictions required are absolutely an area for discussion. I'd side on the viewpoint of being over cautious to prevent a soar in cases again, 100 % agree that masks should be worn etc. But I can also understand other factors being discussed such as economic impacts, impact on waiting lists, mental health etc. I don't think a blanket shut down of these discussions and accusing anyone who enters into these debates as being deniers helps in any way.

Edit** Or you have the above post. No one ever said that no one gets long term effects from covid. It's a typical straw man argument.
Who exactly has discounted the effects of economic downturns, waiting lists or mental health?

Nobody as far as I know

Nobody wants to be in this situation

But you cannot wish a pandemic away

There are a lot of internet experts out there

They rarely if ever actually propose anything, they never actually deal with what the real impacts of progressive liberalisation of restrictions would be

We already have plenty of liberalisation of restrictions in this country

Level 3 is far from where we were in April
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on September 29, 2020, 07:09:29 PM
Quote from: five points on September 29, 2020, 06:29:03 PM
It did come back though. And on that basis, we'd have to assume it'd come back here too, sooner or later. Meaning all the pain in the meantime would be pointless.

A largely functioning internal economy would be pointless? No restrictions for social events within the country? Or hospitality within the country?

Listen to yourself ffs.


When it does reemerge, you lock down again till its gone. With international travel choked off, it cannot reemerge too frequently.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: supersarsfields on September 29, 2020, 07:38:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 06:39:42 PM
Quote from: supersarsfields on September 29, 2020, 03:26:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 02:26:41 PM
The self pity mob are piling it on rich and thick this afternoon

Must be great to be a fake victim all the time

Saves having to debate  ;D

Rossfan's posts aren't debating. He waits until someone else does the hard work like Hound above, and the rows in with a "witty" one liner belittling other posters rather than entering into the debate.

It's not a black or white issue. Levels of restrictions required are absolutely an area for discussion. I'd side on the viewpoint of being over cautious to prevent a soar in cases again, 100 % agree that masks should be worn etc. But I can also understand other factors being discussed such as economic impacts, impact on waiting lists, mental health etc. I don't think a blanket shut down of these discussions and accusing anyone who enters into these debates as being deniers helps in any way.

Edit** Or you have the above post. No one ever said that no one gets long term effects from covid. It's a typical straw man argument.
Who exactly has discounted the effects of economic downturns, waiting lists or mental health?

Nobody as far as I know

Nobody wants to be in this situation

But you cannot wish a pandemic away

There are a lot of internet experts out there

They rarely if ever actually propose anything, they never actually deal with what the real impacts of progressive liberalisation of restrictions would be

We already have plenty of liberalisation of restrictions in this country

Level 3 is far from where we were in April

I've explained my point already. It's not really that big a deal. I find Rossfan's posts exaggerating other posters views to try and make it sound like they are in denial of the pandemic disingenuous.

You are absolutely right in the amount of internet experts out there.   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on September 29, 2020, 10:52:57 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/RTE_PrimeTime/status/1311045248521510912

Good debate on Prime Time this evening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 11:11:30 PM
Quote from: supersarsfields on September 29, 2020, 07:38:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 06:39:42 PM
Quote from: supersarsfields on September 29, 2020, 03:26:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 02:26:41 PM
The self pity mob are piling it on rich and thick this afternoon

Must be great to be a fake victim all the time

Saves having to debate  ;D

Rossfan's posts aren't debating. He waits until someone else does the hard work like Hound above, and the rows in with a "witty" one liner belittling other posters rather than entering into the debate.

It's not a black or white issue. Levels of restrictions required are absolutely an area for discussion. I'd side on the viewpoint of being over cautious to prevent a soar in cases again, 100 % agree that masks should be worn etc. But I can also understand other factors being discussed such as economic impacts, impact on waiting lists, mental health etc. I don't think a blanket shut down of these discussions and accusing anyone who enters into these debates as being deniers helps in any way.

Edit** Or you have the above post. No one ever said that no one gets long term effects from covid. It's a typical straw man argument.
Who exactly has discounted the effects of economic downturns, waiting lists or mental health?

Nobody as far as I know

Nobody wants to be in this situation

But you cannot wish a pandemic away

There are a lot of internet experts out there

They rarely if ever actually propose anything, they never actually deal with what the real impacts of progressive liberalisation of restrictions would be

We already have plenty of liberalisation of restrictions in this country

Level 3 is far from where we were in April

I've explained my point already. It's not really that big a deal. I find Rossfan's posts exaggerating other posters views to try and make it sound like they are in denial of the pandemic disingenuous.

You are absolutely right in the amount of internet experts out there.
Unfortunately I think some posters are in denial and have been since the start of it, not aiming that at you

Certainly I think there's an outsize representation of denialist views in the media at large, both traditional media and on the internet

There is plenty of scope to criticise decision makers in this country, unfortunately from what I can see most of it seems to be being done by head the balls, perhaps that's a function of media deliberately platforming some extremist voices for reaction rather than more constructive criticism which would pose more genuinely awkward questions, perhaps that's a function of spending too much time on social media, perhaps not

I'm all for people making constructive criticism and posing genuinely relevant and sensible questions for decision makers

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on September 29, 2020, 11:13:29 PM
Very good interview with Dr. Feeley on Primetime. Had expected a old dithering wind-bag but he really wiped the floor with McConkey.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 11:22:55 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 29, 2020, 11:13:29 PM
Very good interview with Dr. Feeley on Primetime. Had expected a old dithering wind-bag but he really wiped the floor with McConkey.
I didn't see it

What did Dr. Feeley suggest that the government do

What's his way forward
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on September 29, 2020, 11:24:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 11:11:30 PM
I'm all for people making constructive criticism and posing genuinely relevant and sensible questions for decision makers

I have a few of those.

1. What is the endgame to current policy? Long term are we attempting to eradicate Covid as was suggested by Dr Sam McConkey tonight. How long will that take? Are we trying to "flatten the curve" and slowly let the infection pass through the population until it is endemic? That was once the government position, is it still so?

2. What proportion of people develop long lasting clinical illnesses with Covid? In medical terms what are those conditions? Sinead Sheerin describes very wide ranging and nondescript symptoms. "Head fog" and "breathlessness". Where is the medical evidence showing tissue scarring/damage and what is it's rate of occurrence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on September 29, 2020, 11:24:52 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/RTE_PrimeTime/status/1311045248521510912

Ya I posted the above in relation to the prime time debate earlier. Here is the link again in case it gets lost.

Feeley's message is to protect the old and vulnerable and that it is possible with the measures we have in place already and to give a bit more liberation so people can live their lives.

On the other hand McConkey wants to live in Greenland and play with elf's and teletubbies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 11:39:06 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 29, 2020, 11:24:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 11:11:30 PM
I'm all for people making constructive criticism and posing genuinely relevant and sensible questions for decision makers

I have a few of those.

1. What is the endgame to current policy? Long term are we attempting to eradicate Covid as was suggested by Dr Sam McConkey tonight. How long will that take? Are we trying to "flatten the curve" and slowly let the infection pass through the population until it is endemic? That was once the government position, is it still so?

2. What proportion of people develop long lasting clinical illnesses with Covid? In medical terms what are those conditions? Sinead Sheerin describes very wide ranging and nondescript symptoms. "Head fog" and "breathlessness". Where is the medical evidence showing tissue scarring/damage and what is it's rate of occurrence.
McConkey clearly favours a zero Covid strategy as do some other high profile people in the field

Zero Covid means that you pretty much fully open up the economy after measures to eliminate community transmission

In New Zealand that meant football stadiums could be full

It seems self evident that the policy that is currently being pursued is to buy time until a vaccine, and in the meantime open things up as much as is possible while suppressing the virus as much as possible, to find a midpoint, which is always subject to change

In Sweden I believe it has been reported that up to 15% of cases have got long Covid

In plain English it seems to mean that you feel absolutely fecked for weeks or months afterwards, I guess there would be considerable variation in terms of exactly how that manifests itself and for how long

But it seems to be a real thing, I don't think you can just write it off

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on September 29, 2020, 11:41:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 11:22:55 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 29, 2020, 11:13:29 PM
Very good interview with Dr. Feeley on Primetime. Had expected a old dithering wind-bag but he really wiped the floor with McConkey.
I didn't see it

What did Dr. Feeley suggest that the government do

What's his way forward

This is his own words.

QuoteIn view of recent controversies caused by an article in The Irish Times on Saturday, September 12th, I think it is important to articulate my position on the present Covid crisis and its management, and to comment also on more recent developments.

How lethal is Covid-19?
Up to August 10th, the number of Europeans who died from a Covid-19 illness (182,639) was slightly above the number who died three years ago as a result of "flu" (152,000). The number of patients who died in Europe from the 1917/18 Spanish flu was approximately 2.64 million – this would be equivalent to approximately 7.4 million deaths of today's European population.

It is not for want of good reason that deaths are now referred to as Covid-19-associated deaths. Of 5,700 patients admitted to New York hospitals, 88 per cent had more than one underlying condition (co-morbidity) and the US Centres for Disease Control and Prevention reported that from January to May, 19.5 per cent of Covid-19 patients with co-morbidity died compared to 1.6 per cent with no other illness.

Dr Martin Feeley's view that coronavirus is 'much less severe' than the flu for most people and that restrictions were no longer justified caused a furore.
Dr Martin Feeley stepped down from his post as clinical director of Dublin Midlands Hospital Group on September 15th
The Irish experience is very similar – up to mid-August 94 per cent of deaths were in patients with underlying medical conditions. A Stanford-led group analysed over 100,000 Covid-19-related deaths in Europe, including Ireland, and the US and concluded that "deaths for people under 65 without predisposing conditions were remarkably uncommon" .

Another important feature is the number of people who contract the virus and remain completely asymptomatic. In extremely well-defined scenarios such as the Diamond Princess cruise liner and the Theodore Roosevelt aircraft carrier almost 66 per cent of the positive tests were completely asymptomatic, while a report from China suggests 78 per cent of cases were asymptomatic.

Who is at risk?
For most respiratory diseases, such as the common cold and influenza, children are the primary carriers. However, this does not appear to be the case with the Corona viruses which caused SARS in 2003 and Covid-19. Six weeks after opening schools in Denmark there was no evidence of a spike in cases. A University of Southampton review found no reported incident of pupil-to-teacher transmission.

While children are at negligible risk if healthy and not obese, conversely the individuals at the opposite end of the age spectrum are at greatest risk. The case mortality rate regardless of co-morbidities at 60 years is about 1 per cent, at 70 years about 2 per cent, and increases dramatically to above 15 per cent in individuals over 80 years.

The presence of a chronic illness is the all-important factor in determining the risk even in the elderly; up to mid-September approximately 6,000 nursing home residents had tested positive for Covid-19 and 83 per cent recovered. Diseases of the cardiovascular and respiratory systems are high risk; as is diabetes mellitus, although distinguishing its risk from the obesity risk is difficult.

The best kept secret regarding Covid-19 is the vulnerability of overweight individuals. For reasons unknown this is not publicised to the degree required. Unfortunately this lack of awareness is exacerbated, if not caused, by HSE-published data on risk factors. In its definition of obesity the HSE uses a body mass index (BMI) of 40 whereas most international literature uses a BMI of 30.

MI is a crude measure of body fat; briefly, an individual of 178cm (5'10") height weighing 95kg (15 stone), about 25 per cent over ideal, has a BMI of 30 and is by definition obese.

This disease is profoundly different to the Spanish flu which was an indiscriminate killer, with the average age of victims just 27 years of age
By using a BMI of 40 about 3 per cent of the adult population is considered at risk, but if the international BMI standard of 30 is used the at-risk proportion increases to about 23 per cent. The HSE data, therefore, grossly understates the obesity risk, and under-records the effects of obesity by using a BMI of 40.

In the New York study referenced above, 41.7 per cent of admitted patients had a BMI of 30, the second most common risk factor after hypertension. It has been shown that the highest risk factor for ICU admission is obesity; in Ireland even when using BMI of 40 as the criterion, 19 per cent of those admitted to ICU had this risk factor.

Should we be more worried about increasing numbers of cases?
From mid-July to mid-September there were almost 6,000 reported Covid-19 cases. The media and political reaction has amounted to a foreboding narrative akin to a major catastrophe.

The top TV story night after night features numbers of people testing positive for a condition associated with hospital and ICU admission rates of 2.5 per cent and 0.2 per cent respectively. Admission rates are about one fifth of prior months and lower than those associated with seasonal flu. Such reporting would be more appropriate were the country dealing with an Ebola outbreak.

What is happening is what should be happening – the young are working in essential services and socialising and contracting the virus, while the vulnerable, the elderly and those with illness are being cautious and, importantly, are being protected by the rest of society.

However, there is one worrying trend – over four successive fortnight periods the proportion of cases in the over-65 age group has been 4 per cent, 5 per cent, 7 per cent, and 10 per cent. This suggests a gradual relaxation in the at-risk group or by those around them? If so, this is where we need absolute vigilance.

Is there an alternative strategy?
Many scientists from around the world are now of the view that eradicating SARS-Covid-2 is not realistic in the short term. I say this as eradication appears to be the new goal in Ireland.

The initial response was entirely appropriate for a contagious disease with the suspected virulence of the 1917/18 Spanish flu. However, after nine months of intensive scientific scrutiny of the virus' behaviour globally concludes this is no longer the case.

This disease is profoundly different to the Spanish flu which was an indiscriminate killer, with the average age of victims just 27 years of age. It's also profoundly different to the seasonal Influenza. Therefore different strategies are required to manage Covid-19.

The Government deserves enormous credit for opening our schools. What is needed now is an extension of that thinking
Experience has taught us that the at-risk and vulnerable individuals are identifiable with remarkable accuracy, and that protective measures – hygiene, masks, social distancing and cocooning – are extremely effective.

Common sense might dictate that we expose the low-risk population to this condition and protect the at-risk, ie, the red rag of "herd immunity". That is what was happening and yet the policy seems to be to prevent this happening. This should particularly have been allowed to happen during the summer months before the "flu season" and thus reduce the workload on the health services during winter months.

Achieving a balance
The Government deserves enormous credit for opening our schools. What is needed now is an extension of that thinking to strike the right balance and avoid the cost greatly exceeding the benefit.

The at-risk can be protected by themselves and others adhering to proven protective measures. By definition, almost all emergency hospital admissions are at risk and therefore the protective measures for patients and for the staff need to be retained; similarly for nursing homes. This policy will involve those "at risk" not going to work, which is much better than nobody going to work.

The young and healthy majority need to be allowed to live rather than exist, while being mindful of those at risk.

In living with this disease the able elderly may feel disinclined to comply with restrictions or cocoon, as indeed may others at risk. This, however, poses the mountain climber dilemma – "by putting myself in danger I am possibly asking others to risk their lives to save mine".

Regardless, we need to stop scaring the nation; be honest with the nation and consider how to better facilitate personal choice.

Haven't got a recording of tonight's PT so I'll try to paraphrase him and I hope it accurately describes his ideas.

1. The early fear of Covid was that it was as dangerous as Spanish Flu so complete lockdown was at the time the sensible and correct decision.
2. Covid is not as virulent as previously feared and selects for a particular cohort of people.
3. It makes more sense to isolate these high risk groups and take particular precautions around them than to isolate the entire population at large.
4. In ICU settings the transfer of infection between patient and medical staff is now nearly negligible as staff take the necessary precautions and properly use PPE. This strategy needs to be extrapolated to the high-risk groups. (care homes etc).

He didn't directly say it but I believe he thinks the sooner the disease becomes endemic the less likely it is to be a problem to the high-risk groups. It currently moves with alarming pace because it's roaring through a susceptible population. It will move much slower/possibly even stop moving through a population with antibodies to coronavirus. At this point restrictions on high risk groups can be eased as they will be less likely to be exposed to the virus in social contact.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 29, 2020, 11:46:45 PM
Quote from: highorlow on September 29, 2020, 11:24:52 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/RTE_PrimeTime/status/1311045248521510912

Ya I posted the above in relation to the prime time debate earlier. Here is the link again in case it gets lost.

Feeley's message is to protect the old and vulnerable and that it is possible with the measures we have in place already and to give a bit more liberation so people can live their lives.

On the other hand McConkey wants to live in Greenland and play with elf's and teletubbies.
That's not a good faith engagement with McConkey's position, it's just sneering

"Protecting the old and vulnerable" is a slogan

Did Dr. Feeley say exactly what he means by "a bit more liberation"? Sounds vague

"A bit more liberation" would mean greater virus spread, and the more the virus spreads the more difficult it is to protect the old and vulnerable, that's just a fact

"Protecting the old and vulnerable" also means basically shutting them away from society and human contact, doesn't it?

Back during the March to May period there was a fringe line of argument that it was inhuman to impose restrictions on old people for a couple of months

I'm pretty sure that a lot, perhaps most of the people making that argument then are the same people that see no problem shutting those same old people away from society now

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 12:07:20 AM
Quote from: trileacman on September 29, 2020, 11:41:19 PM


Haven't got a recording of tonight's PT so I'll try to paraphrase him and I hope it accurately describes his ideas.

1. The early fear of Covid was that it was as dangerous as Spanish Flu so complete lockdown was at the time the sensible and correct decision.
2. Covid is not as virulent as previously feared and selects for a particular cohort of people.
3. It makes more sense to isolate these high risk groups and take particular precautions around them than to isolate the entire population at large.
4. In ICU settings the transfer of infection between patient and medical staff is now nearly negligible as staff take the necessary precautions and properly use PPE. This strategy needs to be extrapolated to the high-risk groups. (care homes etc).

He didn't directly say it but I believe he thinks the sooner the disease becomes endemic the less likely it is to be a problem to the high-risk groups. It currently moves with alarming pace because it's roaring through a susceptible population. It will move much slower/possibly even stop moving through a population with antibodies to coronavirus. At this point restrictions on high risk groups can be eased as they will be less likely to be exposed to the virus in social contact.

But there seems to be a big mismatch between Dr. Feeley's vague aspiration to "open up and live life" and protecting the old and the vulnerable

"Alarming pace" doesn't really mean much, it could mean anything

Now let's be really generous and assume for the purposes of argument that 300k people have already been infected here (I don't think it's near that in reality though)

It's estimated that 70% of a population would need to catch the virus to achieve "herd immunity", that's the theory anyway, and we don't even know if herd immunity would exist, it didn't exist for other viruses

70% of the saorstát's population is 3.36 million

You'd be waiting a long, long time for 3.36 million to catch it, unless many tens or even hundreds of thousands of people were to catch it simultaneously, and I think that would not be good, not good at all

I think also that Dr. Feeley seems guilty of very wishful thinking in terms of the mindset of the population at large

He's basically telling people to "don't worry, it'll all be grand, carry on as you would as if there was no pandemic"

But very few people are of that mindset

I think what in reality would happen is that the population would be utterly terrified, there would be mass anger and widespread demands that such a crazy policy be reversed immediately

Also, if the "vulnerable" are being protected, as Dr. Feeley says is currently the case, you'd be getting a skewed view of how dangerous the disease is for all the population

Dr. Feeley really needs to put some flesh on the bones of what he actually proposes, and to be quizzed on the possible consequences, intended or unintended, because from what I can make out, his strategy is indeed to "let the virus rip" - that's what a "herd immunity" strategy is


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on September 30, 2020, 12:17:02 AM
Sid, prime time is on the RTE player or on the news now channel.

He never said locking up old and vulnerable is the answer, he said we can protect them with the measures already in place.

e.g., When I headed west to visit my folks during the summer i self isolated 4 days beforehand as a precaution, I didn't stop anywhere on the way down, if I needed a piss I pissed in the ditch. In other words I used common sense. But I do get ya, it takes major buy in by the citizens to apply a degree of common sense that might not be possible (at this stage).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 12:46:11 AM
Quote from: highorlow on September 30, 2020, 12:17:02 AM
Sid, prime time is on the RTE player or on the news now channel.

He never said locking up old and vulnerable is the answer, he said we can protect them with the measures already in place.

e.g., When I headed west to visit my folks during the summer i self isolated 4 days beforehand as a precaution, I didn't stop anywhere on the way down, if I needed a piss I pissed in the ditch. In other words I used common sense. But I do get ya, it takes major buy in by the citizens to apply a degree of common sense that might not be possible (at this stage).
But that seems patently wrong to me because if you're encouraging widespread virus spread in the population, it then becomes pretty much impossible to isolate the old and the vulnerable from that, humans do not exist in a vortex and they will all need to have contact with other humans

And if they are not isolated, how then do you protect them? You don't is the answer

Say in my own situation, I'm a carer for somebody in the most vulnerable category, who cannot cut off contact with me - and unfortunately I cannot cut off contact with all other humans - I do have to go out sometimes

We knew all this stuff about shielding people back in March and April and it didn't work

I don't see why it would work with exponentially greater virus spread

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on September 30, 2020, 12:49:54 AM
He never said anything tonight about herd immunity either.

Lookit go and watch the interview.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on September 30, 2020, 12:51:14 AM
QuoteZero Covid means that you pretty much fully open up the economy after measures to eliminate community transmission

You can't pretty much fully open an economy whilst other countries are still gripped by Covid and your population are immunologically naïve to it. 21st century economies rely upon the transfer of people especially one like NZ's where international tourism and seasonal workers are such a large part of their economy. NZ will have travel restrictions in place for a long time and this will hamper their economy for as long as other countries have Covid cases. In Ireland in 6 months 35,000 people have tested positive so 0.8% of the population. NZ will wait a very long time for unrestricted travel to Ireland (and probably all major Western countries) if that is their policy. "but a vaccine will be along any week now" you could argue. I'll cover that later in my reply.

QuoteIn New Zealand that meant football stadiums could be full

Don't know what football stadiums have to do with it.

QuoteIt seems self evident that the policy that is currently being pursued is to buy time until a vaccine, and in the meantime open things up as much as is possible while suppressing the virus as much as possible, to find a midpoint, which is always subject to change

Right the vaccine silver bullet hopes.

Some background info on making vaccines. AIDS has killed more than 32 million people since the 80's. There's been 35 years of vaccine development for HIV. all of which has came to nought. Vaccines have passed through stage 3 etc but found to be useless in the real world. The best one they could make after 30 years was one that worked about 30% of the time. Magaret Heckler the US secretary of Health declared on 23 April 1984 that an Aids vaccine would be ready in 2 years. Does that kind of guff from politicians sound familar to you?

Of course HIV is a lentivirus, difficult little b@stards to work with and very different to coronavirus. Biologically comparing coronavirus and lentivirus is like comparing an Indian elephant with a field mouse. Coronaviruses of course are an everyday facet of life. There's a reasonable chance I had one last week. They are found in approx 15% of people with the common cold, an old, well-studied and economically frustrating virus. It's estimated the average person gets 2-3 colds per year, children 6-8. The cold accounts for up to 40% of lost work days in the US and so costs the world a lot of money. Consequently there have be many attempts to create a vaccine because you'd make a lot of money out of it if you did. None have been successful.

So making vaccines is notoriously difficult and almost always a slow and arduous task. Even when you've a vaccine made there's no guarantee that it will give you an immunity for very long, maybe only a few months, hopefully a year. Also whilst vaccines on the whole are generally quite safe their have been previous examples of adverse reactions to vaccines. See Cutter incident, GBS and Swine flu vaccine, Simian Viurs in polio vaccines and Pandermix's links to nacrolepsy. Vaccine makers have to jump through a series of safety protocols before public dissemination of a vaccine and rightly so. There is unfortunately a small chance that the rush to see a coronavirus vaccine pushed through could see a compromise on safety. This is just a reminder that vaccines need to be held up to a rigorous standard to ensure the anti-vaxxer crowd don't get any ammo.

Now a vaccine may be successful and I hope so but the odds are against it. Whilst newsreels and politicians will gleefully pontificate on the coming scientific breakthrough very few vaccine scientists will give you any hard and fast guarantee on timing or efficacy.

Which leaves any country which is predicating it's Covid policy on a vaccine breakthrough on thin ice. If the vaccine doesn't come good where are you left then?

QuoteIn Sweden I believe it has been reported that up to 15% of cases have got long Covid

Could you share where you got that figure from? I can't find it. I did find this though which tries to explain Sweden's Covid approach. It's from a former editor of the British medical journal. https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/09/23/richard-smith-could-sweden-have-got-it-right-with-covid-19/ (https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/09/23/richard-smith-could-sweden-have-got-it-right-with-covid-19/)

QuoteIn plain English it seems to mean that you feel absolutely fecked for weeks or months afterwards, I guess there would be considerable variation in terms of exactly how that manifests itself and for how long

Again medical evidence for this would be appreciated rather than just anecdotes from people. I've yet to see a detailed medical profile of "long Covid" despite the column inches it attracts. Mostly the info in these "long Covid" articles comes from someone who had Covid as opposed to qualified medical professionals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 30, 2020, 12:54:38 AM
Quote from: highorlow on September 30, 2020, 12:17:02 AM
Sid, prime time is on the RTE player or on the news now channel.

He never said locking up old and vulnerable is the answer, he said we can protect them with the measures already in place.

e.g., When I headed west to visit my folks during the summer i self isolated 4 days beforehand as a precaution, I didn't stop anywhere on the way down, if I needed a piss I pissed in the ditch. In other words I used common sense. But I do get ya, it takes major buy in by the citizens to apply a degree of common sense that might not be possible (at this stage).

Yes, but 4 days might not be enough, although it was a good effort and showed an approach that others will not take. But in reality you cannot separate one third of society off from the other two thirds. Older people have home helps, they need to go to the shop, they need someone to come and service the boiler. There are no measures significant measures in place. Plenty of 60 year olds have jobs.
And common sense isn't universal, on the radio yesterday were a couple in Cork who implied that they didn't believe all the hype and were unhappy at the reporter wearing a mask, and the women said "and I have an 85 year old mother", one wonders if that family are taking measures.

If there are a lot of cases the health service will come under pressure and the economy will still be banjaxed to a substantial exent and as noted it will take a long time for any herd immunity to emerge.
There are only two options before a vaccine or treatment, either carry on with a steady 80-90% of things and don't push it or else test everyone and all but eliminate the dose.

As for vaccines, I'd expect one to come along to make a difference. There are so many vaccines in development using different, and relatively tested, approaches that even if the first vaccine isn't perfect that a later one would improve things. Given the economic damage this virus is causing there is almost unlimited money to develop vaccines, cures and tests and I would expect one of these horses to cross the line in 2021.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on September 30, 2020, 01:02:56 AM
QuotePandemics are unpredictable and it is too soon to say, argues Richard Smith

richard_smith_2014Sweden stood alone in Europe in not opting for a severe lockdown when cases of covid-19 began to rise in the spring. As a result, the New York Times called Sweden "a pariah state," and Sweden has had higher death rates than most countries in Europe, although lower than Britain. But, as I write this on 20 September 2020, the difference in the number of cases in Sweden and most of the rest of Europe is striking. Most countries in Europe have a rapid rise in cases, whereas Sweden does not. Spain, which had one of the most severe lockdowns, has one of the steepest increases.

The reason for the difference may well be that Sweden has more immune people, probably mostly younger people. But another possible explanation is that Swedes have followed the rules more dutifully than in other countries—perhaps because they trust the public health officials, understand what they have to do and why, and have avoided the stop-go confusion that besets Britain and other countries.

We knew from the beginning of the pandemic that it was likely to last years and that most of us had no immunity. We would either catch the infection or try to avoid it by minimising our contact with others. Eventually either enough of us would have caught the disease to generate the much-maligned herd immunity or many of us would be vaccinated. Either way it was going to be a long haul, and years of minimising contacts would mean no work, schools, or fun.

Sweden could behave differently from other countries because public health officials not politicians decide how to respond to the pandemic. It's very hard for politicians to do things differently from other countries. Putting health officials rather than politicians in charge sounds like the creation of an iatrocracy and frighteningly anti-democratic, but the decision to do it this way was reached through democratic means.

In an interview in the Financial Times, Anders Tegnell, the chief public health official in Sweden, describes the thinking of him and his colleagues:  "At the outset we talked very much about sustainability, and I think that's something we managed to keep to. And also be a bit resistant to quick fixes...We see a disease that we're going to have to handle for a long time..." Tegnell describes a lockdown as "using a hammer to kill a fly." You need "a strategy that can work for years if need be, rather than constant chopping and changing as seen in the rest of Europe."

Crucially to my mind, Tegnell and his team thought about "public health in the broadest sense," recognising the importance of education, work, and meeting with friends for health. "We are not just working with communicable diseases, we are working with public health as a whole."

Sweden has concentrated its efforts against the virus on places where it's most likely to be spread—places of entertainment where many people gather. Those places have strict rules on social distancing. Tegnell is unconvinced by the value of face masks, and they are not much seen in Sweden. Face masks are "more of a statement than actually a measure...Face masks are an easy solution, and I'm deeply distrustful of easy solutions to complex problems." I'm also wary of simple solutions to complex problems, but I can understand why easy solutions and quick fixes are attractive to politicians.

The same thinking makes Tegnell cautious about the "silver bullet" of a vaccine. The idea that "once vaccine is here we can go back and live as we have always done...[is] "a dangerous message...because it's not going to be that easy."

David Nabarro from the World Health Organisation emphasises that the people not governments hold the key to responding to covid-19. We need to follow simple rules, and I can see why people in Sweden might be much more able and willing to follow the rules than people in other European countries. Most people in Europe must have heard the messages about these rules, but in Britain they are mixed with lots of conflicting messages. The stop-start messages from the British government are confusing, and many people don't understand why they should follow the rules. Worse they don't trust the government, and in Britain you don't have to go far to see people breaking the rules. People may wonder why they have to follow the rules if others aren't.

Sweden has avoided the stop-start messages, and the Swedish government is more trusted than the British one. Plus importantly Sweden has emphasised that the pandemic will last a long time (avoiding things like British politicians saying it might be over by Christmas), and it has not asked Swedes to make such extreme changes, meaning surely that it's easier to sustain the changes in behaviour.

When the FT journalist spoke to Tegnell in the spring he said that "it would be in the autumn when it became more apparent how successful each country had been." As Britain looks close to going into another national lockdown, some are arguing that Sweden seems to have adopted a better strategy. But all judgements must be provisional as pandemics are unpredictable, and Tegnell does expect local spikes in cases.

Richard Smith was the editor of The BMJ until 2004.

Again good reasoned piece. He doesn't say Sweden is wrong or right just that it's as likely that they are either. I don't understand why people can refuse to countenance the idea that Irelands/UK/NZ covid strategy may be incorrect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 30, 2020, 01:49:41 AM
Quote from: trileacman on September 30, 2020, 01:02:56 AM
Again good reasoned piece. He doesn't say Sweden is wrong or right just that it's as likely that they are either. I don't understand why people can refuse to countenance the idea that Irelands/UK/NZ covid strategy may be incorrect.

What is the substantial difference between the Swedish approach and the Irish one at this stage, other than the Swedes actually following the restrictions?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 02:02:52 AM
Quote from: highorlow on September 30, 2020, 12:49:54 AM
He never said anything tonight about herd immunity either.

Lookit go and watch the interview.
He said it in his article quoted on the previous page
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 02:17:41 AM
Quote from: trileacman on September 30, 2020, 12:51:14 AM
QuoteZero Covid means that you pretty much fully open up the economy after measures to eliminate community transmission

You can't pretty much fully open an economy whilst other countries are still gripped by Covid and your population are immunologically naïve to it. 21st century economies rely upon the transfer of people especially one like NZ's where international tourism and seasonal workers are such a large part of their economy. NZ will have travel restrictions in place for a long time and this will hamper their economy for as long as other countries have Covid cases. In Ireland in 6 months 35,000 people have tested positive so 0.8% of the population. NZ will wait a very long time for unrestricted travel to Ireland (and probably all major Western countries) if that is their policy. "but a vaccine will be along any week now" you could argue. I'll cover that later in my reply.

QuoteIn New Zealand that meant football stadiums could be full

Don't know what football stadiums have to do with it.

QuoteIt seems self evident that the policy that is currently being pursued is to buy time until a vaccine, and in the meantime open things up as much as is possible while suppressing the virus as much as possible, to find a midpoint, which is always subject to change

Right the vaccine silver bullet hopes.

Some background info on making vaccines. AIDS has killed more than 32 million people since the 80's. There's been 35 years of vaccine development for HIV. all of which has came to nought. Vaccines have passed through stage 3 etc but found to be useless in the real world. The best one they could make after 30 years was one that worked about 30% of the time. Magaret Heckler the US secretary of Health declared on 23 April 1984 that an Aids vaccine would be ready in 2 years. Does that kind of guff from politicians sound familar to you?

Of course HIV is a lentivirus, difficult little b@stards to work with and very different to coronavirus. Biologically comparing coronavirus and lentivirus is like comparing an Indian elephant with a field mouse. Coronaviruses of course are an everyday facet of life. There's a reasonable chance I had one last week. They are found in approx 15% of people with the common cold, an old, well-studied and economically frustrating virus. It's estimated the average person gets 2-3 colds per year, children 6-8. The cold accounts for up to 40% of lost work days in the US and so costs the world a lot of money. Consequently there have be many attempts to create a vaccine because you'd make a lot of money out of it if you did. None have been successful.

So making vaccines is notoriously difficult and almost always a slow and arduous task. Even when you've a vaccine made there's no guarantee that it will give you an immunity for very long, maybe only a few months, hopefully a year. Also whilst vaccines on the whole are generally quite safe their have been previous examples of adverse reactions to vaccines. See Cutter incident, GBS and Swine flu vaccine, Simian Viurs in polio vaccines and Pandermix's links to nacrolepsy. Vaccine makers have to jump through a series of safety protocols before public dissemination of a vaccine and rightly so. There is unfortunately a small chance that the rush to see a coronavirus vaccine pushed through could see a compromise on safety. This is just a reminder that vaccines need to be held up to a rigorous standard to ensure the anti-vaxxer crowd don't get any ammo.

Now a vaccine may be successful and I hope so but the odds are against it. Whilst newsreels and politicians will gleefully pontificate on the coming scientific breakthrough very few vaccine scientists will give you any hard and fast guarantee on timing or efficacy.

Which leaves any country which is predicating it's Covid policy on a vaccine breakthrough on thin ice. If the vaccine doesn't come good where are you left then?

QuoteIn Sweden I believe it has been reported that up to 15% of cases have got long Covid

Could you share where you got that figure from? I can't find it. I did find this though which tries to explain Sweden's Covid approach. It's from a former editor of the British medical journal. https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/09/23/richard-smith-could-sweden-have-got-it-right-with-covid-19/ (https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/09/23/richard-smith-could-sweden-have-got-it-right-with-covid-19/)

QuoteIn plain English it seems to mean that you feel absolutely fecked for weeks or months afterwards, I guess there would be considerable variation in terms of exactly how that manifests itself and for how long

Again medical evidence for this would be appreciated rather than just anecdotes from people. I've yet to see a detailed medical profile of "long Covid" despite the column inches it attracts. Mostly the info in these "long Covid" articles comes from someone who had Covid as opposed to qualified medical professionals.
The idea behind Zero Covid is that you can pretty much fully open up your internal economy

Football stadiums being full is a signifier of what that means for people's way of life under such a strategy if successful, it means basically unrestricted normal life

You can say a non herd immunity strategy is based on there being a vaccine but a herd immunity strategy is based on there not being one, so let's bring forward a massive public health crisis on an assumption

This source says 260k people in Sweden have long Covid

Whatever the truth of the numbers, you can't just write it off

https://aktuelltfokus.se/novus-kvarts-miljon-svenskar-langtidssjuka-i-covid-19/

The main reason for why Sweden's policy was wrong was that it was immoral, they sacrificed a lot of lives that could have been saved

Also they didn't protect their economy and are nowhere near herd immunity
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on September 30, 2020, 01:42:01 PM
QuoteAlso they didn't protect their economy and are nowhere near herd immunity

Source?

As for the economy, only in about 8 months time can a fair comparison be done.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 01:59:42 PM
Quote from: highorlow on September 30, 2020, 01:42:01 PM
QuoteAlso they didn't protect their economy and are nowhere near herd immunity

Source?

As for the economy, only in about 8 months time can a fair comparison be done.

There has been nothing at all to suggest Sweden are remotely near herd immunity, and everything we know suggests they are way off it

Contratry to the fake narrative pushed by those who are praising Sweden for cynical right-wing political reasons, cases are rapidly going up there the same as everywhere else in Europe

The "Sweden are nearing herd immunity" claim has been constantly pushed by such people

It's up to them to prove it

They've so far produced nothing other than a cynical, opportunist political narrative based on absolutely nothing except their own bad faith bias

Also, if the lovers of the Swedish strategy believe that they are nearing herd immunity, why are they not saying that Spain or Italy or the US are, given that those countries have even higher death and case rates



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 30, 2020, 02:25:30 PM
At this rate we just have to manage the situation, as we wont be getting cures any day soon and all evidence of previous vaccines has shown that its minimum 2 plus years.

Wash hands, sanitize and protect those at risk that have underlying conditions, but we need to get on as much as we can going forward, and if it requires mini lockdowns then do it right, close ports and airports to travel, essential goods/employment only during periods of high hospital intake.. hospitals have done brilliantly since getting a handle on medicating people with covid.

Collecting as much data and tracing will do more to preventing the spread and understanding the how it transmit and who's more at risk..

Some business will never recover from this, unless we can reduce the percentages of catching it.

I've been out for dinner twice, in all of that time, haven't been to a pub and have no desire until I can actually go out and follow on from before March!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 30, 2020, 02:32:17 PM
A vaccine will have to come but it'll be slow to a) get there and b) rollout after that. It'll be management for a few years yet by the look of it.

It's hard to see how bars and restaurants then the arts and things like that fully recover from this. If you're an actor in the theatres or you're a musician who gigs locally for a living then you're in big trouble. You'll need to change careers.

Been to a pub once. It was actually good enough craic all things considered.(beer garden)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on September 30, 2020, 02:51:35 PM
A daily high for NI with 424 cases of Covid-19. One further death.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 30, 2020, 02:54:16 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 30, 2020, 02:32:17 PM
A vaccine will have to come but it'll be slow to a) get there and b) rollout after that. It'll be management for a few years yet by the look of it.

It's hard to see how bars and restaurants then the arts and things like that fully recover from this. If you're an actor in the theatres or you're a musician who gigs locally for a living then you're in big trouble. You'll need to change careers.

Been to a pub once. It was actually good enough craic all things considered.(beer garden)

I'd hazard a guess you or I will never see the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 30, 2020, 03:03:00 PM
Yeah while it is hard to predict anything here I wouldn't bet against that either. There will be a hierarchy and (relatively) young and fit enough will be very much back of the queue.

Everything ramping up again it seems :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 30, 2020, 03:20:48 PM
Are the figures broken down by age as well as area?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on September 30, 2020, 03:53:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 30, 2020, 03:20:48 PM
Are the figures broken down by age as well as area?

https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/health/doh-db-300920.pdf
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on September 30, 2020, 03:57:19 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on September 30, 2020, 03:53:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 30, 2020, 03:20:48 PM
Are the figures broken down by age as well as area?

https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/health/doh-db-300920.pdf

Individuals tested now v individuals tested in April/May would go some way to explaining why numbers are rising again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on September 30, 2020, 03:57:51 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/30/germans-embrace-fresh-air-to-ward-off-coronavirus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 30, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on September 30, 2020, 03:57:51 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/30/germans-embrace-fresh-air-to-ward-off-coronavirus

Entirely new buildings regulations are needed after this to ensure proper ventilation in buildings and heat exchangers and the like.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on September 30, 2020, 05:08:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 30, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on September 30, 2020, 03:57:51 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/30/germans-embrace-fresh-air-to-ward-off-coronavirus

Entirely new buildings regulations are needed after this to ensure proper ventilation in buildings and heat exchangers and the like.

When we built our house we asked our architect about ventilation. "Hard to beat opening a window" says he.

He wasn't wrong. Yet in an awful lot of modern buildings you can't open a window if you want to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 30, 2020, 06:14:47 PM
Quote from: five points on September 30, 2020, 05:08:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 30, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on September 30, 2020, 03:57:51 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/30/germans-embrace-fresh-air-to-ward-off-coronavirus

Entirely new buildings regulations are needed after this to ensure proper ventilation in buildings and heat exchangers and the like.

When we built our house we asked our architect about ventilation. "Hard to beat opening a window" says he.

He wasn't wrong. Yet in an awful lot of modern buildings you can't open a window if you want to.

Health and safety would say you're giving an opportunity for someone to fall out the window or be pushed!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 30, 2020, 06:18:58 PM
So stay away from women aged between 20-39 .... never been a problem  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on September 30, 2020, 07:39:50 PM
QuoteThere has been nothing at all to suggest Sweden are remotely near herd immunity, and everything we know suggests they are way off it

Contrary to the fake narrative pushed by those who are praising Sweden for cynical right-wing political reasons, cases are rapidly going up there the same as everywhere else in Europe

Source?

They seem to have lower cases than us despite almost double the population? Maybe I'm wrong?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on September 30, 2020, 08:57:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 02:17:41 AM

This source says 260k people in Sweden have long Covid

Whatever the truth of the numbers, you can't just write it off

https://aktuelltfokus.se/novus-kvarts-miljon-svenskar-langtidssjuka-i-covid-19/

The main reason for why Sweden's policy was wrong was that it was immoral, they sacrificed a lot of lives that could have been saved

Also they didn't protect their economy and are nowhere near herd immunity

Only 90k people have tested positive for Covid in Sweden. To suggest 260k people there have long Covid is ridiculous.

Sweden protected their economy by about twice as much as Spain, France and the UK. Their economy is forecast to shrink by about as half as much as those mentioned. So you're wrong their. In my opinion they are a lot nearer to herd immunity than other countries and will reach it sooner than other nations who continue to drip feed their populations to Covid infection.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on September 30, 2020, 09:06:55 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 30, 2020, 08:57:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 02:17:41 AM

This source says 260k people in Sweden have long Covid

Whatever the truth of the numbers, you can't just write it off

https://aktuelltfokus.se/novus-kvarts-miljon-svenskar-langtidssjuka-i-covid-19/

The main reason for why Sweden's policy was wrong was that it was immoral, they sacrificed a lot of lives that could have been saved

Also they didn't protect their economy and are nowhere near herd immunity

Only 90k people have tested positive for Covid in Sweden. To suggest 260k people there have long Covid is ridiculous.

Sweden protected their economy by about twice as much as Spain, France and the UK. Their economy is forecast to shrink by about as half as much as those mentioned. So you're wrong their. In my opinion they are a lot nearer to herd immunity than other countries and will reach it sooner than other nations who continue to drip feed their populations to Covid infection.

Sweden had 10 times the death rate of neighbouring Finland and Finlands economy has stood up just as well as Swedens. You need to compare countries with like for like comparisons.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 30, 2020, 09:13:31 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 30, 2020, 09:06:55 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 30, 2020, 08:57:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 02:17:41 AM

This source says 260k people in Sweden have long Covid

Whatever the truth of the numbers, you can't just write it off

https://aktuelltfokus.se/novus-kvarts-miljon-svenskar-langtidssjuka-i-covid-19/

The main reason for why Sweden's policy was wrong was that it was immoral, they sacrificed a lot of lives that could have been saved

Also they didn't protect their economy and are nowhere near herd immunity

Only 90k people have tested positive for Covid in Sweden. To suggest 260k people there have long Covid is ridiculous.

Sweden protected their economy by about twice as much as Spain, France and the UK. Their economy is forecast to shrink by about as half as much as those mentioned. So you're wrong their. In my opinion they are a lot nearer to herd immunity than other countries and will reach it sooner than other nations who continue to drip feed their populations to Covid infection.

Sweden had 10 times the death rate of neighbouring Finland and Finlands economy has stood up just as well as Swedens. You need to compare countries with like for like comparisons.

To be honest, for the foreseeable future we'd be better off comparing very little. It's too early, the outcomes are unclear, the data is untrustworthy and  inconsistent, and let's be honest, comparing the inner workings of two countries before Covid was troublesome enough.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 30, 2020, 09:37:11 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 30, 2020, 08:57:05 PM
In my opinion they are a lot nearer to herd immunity than other countries and will reach it sooner than other nations who continue to drip feed their populations to Covid infection.

I take it that you have read Orlowski, E. J., & Goldsmith, D. J. (2020). Four months into the COVID-19 pandemic, Sweden's prized herd immunity is nowhere in sight. Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine, https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0141076820945282
or have you conducted your own research?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on September 30, 2020, 10:21:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 30, 2020, 09:37:11 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 30, 2020, 08:57:05 PM
In my opinion they are a lot nearer to herd immunity than other countries and will reach it sooner than other nations who continue to drip feed their populations to Covid infection.

I take it that you have read Orlowski, E. J., & Goldsmith, D. J. (2020). Four months into the COVID-19 pandemic, Sweden's prized herd immunity is nowhere in sight. Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine, https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0141076820945282
or have you conducted your own research?

Just finished it. A balanced piece. Some choice points from it for you.

QuoteDespite the above critical remarks, there is neither justification for schadenfreude, nor for Swedes to feel unduly sheepish about their folkvett. Only once we can fully understand both the pandemic and the impact of the measures that were taken – after 1–2 years at least – can we then begin fairly to judge what was done correctly.

So the authors will conclude it's too early to tell that the Swedish principles were wrong or right. This is an article from the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine clearly stating that the Swedish approach may be correct (or as equally likely that they are wrong). Don't ever let people tell you that the experts say Sweden's approach has failed.

QuoteTable 218–24 shows the data from many of the reported series (some reports being pre-formal publication); it is clear that nowhere is the prevalence of IgG seropositivity high (the maximum being around 20%) or climbing convincingly over time. This is especially clear in Sweden, where the authorities publicly predicted 40% seroconversion in Stockholm by May 2020; the actual IgG seroprevalence was around 15%.

Our uncertainty also extends to whether Ab produced in any clinical COVID-19 setting can confer any clinically-relevant protection against new or recurrent SARS-CoV-2 infections; some answers to this may come from the several ongoing convalescent plasma trials.25 There are certainly going to be more sophisticated tests of innate immunity measuring reactive T-cell populations against viral antigen targets which are more informative and clinically relevant than simple reliance on the generation of IgG and IgM Ab post infection. Nor do we know today whether there will be the development of a safe, reliable, affordable and accessible vaccine in a reasonable timeframe–this was not achieved with Dengue, HIV-AIDS, SARS, MERS or Zika.26


This is the really telling point. The blood-borne degree of immunity is only reaching about 15%. Too low for herd immunity. But the immune system is a vast and complex body system not solely restricted to or directly measurable by circulating levels of immunoglobulins. The author clearly discounts the accuracy of his previous paragraph by opening the following with the remark "Our uncertainty also extends to whether Ab produced in any clinical COVID-19 setting can confer any clinically-relevant protection against new or recurrent SARS-CoV-2 infections".

What he should say, and what I dare say the author is unaware of, is that in terms of respiratory infections, local reactive T-cell immunity is much more important than a blood-borne immunity. Respiratory pathogens are deliberately trapped in the upper respiratory tract by the body and this is the primary site of their replication and quite often their sites of pathology as well. With large infectious doses and an immunologically susceptible host we see the further infection of the lower respiratory tract, the acute kidney injury and thrombic diathesis. The people who progress to this state require ICU hospitalisation and at this point there is a immunoglobulin immune response as the virus spills across the vast pulmonary vasculature.

My point is this. By controlling infectious dose and immunological susceptibility of the host population we can incubate a safe infection in the population and stimulate a local T-cell immunity in the upper respiratory tract.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 10:36:07 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 30, 2020, 09:06:55 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 30, 2020, 08:57:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 02:17:41 AM

This source says 260k people in Sweden have long Covid

Whatever the truth of the numbers, you can't just write it off

https://aktuelltfokus.se/novus-kvarts-miljon-svenskar-langtidssjuka-i-covid-19/

The main reason for why Sweden's policy was wrong was that it was immoral, they sacrificed a lot of lives that could have been saved

Also they didn't protect their economy and are nowhere near herd immunity

Only 90k people have tested positive for Covid in Sweden. To suggest 260k people there have long Covid is ridiculous.

Sweden protected their economy by about twice as much as Spain, France and the UK. Their economy is forecast to shrink by about as half as much as those mentioned. So you're wrong their. In my opinion they are a lot nearer to herd immunity than other countries and will reach it sooner than other nations who continue to drip feed their populations to Covid infection.

Sweden had 10 times the death rate of neighbouring Finland and Finlands economy has stood up just as well as Swedens. You need to compare countries with like for like comparisons.

Finland's economy fared considerably better than Sweden's

Sweden took an 8.6% GDP hit, Finland just 3.2% though I think that has been adjusted to 4.5% now

As regards long Covid, by its nature it's a nebulous concept with not much more to go on than anecdotal evidence, but as I said you cannot write it off

I don't know about 260k people in Sweden having long Covid, that's likely journalistic hyperbole, but there's enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that it is a real phenomenon, whatever the numbers, and they could well be large numbers

More evidence certainly needs to be gathered on this

90k odd may be the case figure for Sweden, but you can be sure the real infection numbers are considerably higher, possibly several hundred thousand

Sweden has 10.23 million people though so working off the 70% hypothesis for theoretical herd immunity, it's almost impossible to see how they could be anywhere near that 70% which would be 7 million

The thing with herd immunity is that we're working off an assumption that immunity will only last maybe 2-3 years

So what time frame are we supposed to be talking about for achieving theoretical herd immunity? When is it supposed to happen and how?

If theoretical herd immunity is supposed to happen in, for argument's sake, 18 months' time - which would be two years after the beginning of the pandemic - that means a massive spike in the number of infected people between now and then - in Ireland's case it would require an average of several tens of thousands of people to be infected each week

Let's work off a generous assumption that 200k have already been infected - 70% of the population of the saorstát is 3.36 million - knock 200k off that for 3.16million

3.16 million would need to be infected in 18 months

There are 78 weeks in 18 months - and 3.16 million divided by 78 is 39,948

So you would need an average of 40k people infected with Covid each week for the next 78 weeks in order to theoretically achieve herd immunity by the end of March 2022

That seems like a recipe for disaster

If theoretical herd immunity doesn't happen in the next 2 to 3 years, you likely end up being back to square one as people progressively lose their immunity and become susceptible again

Only time will tell with this disease and especially a full winter with it

I think we will know a lot more by April and knowledge will be power
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 30, 2020, 10:42:30 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 30, 2020, 10:21:23 PM
So the authors will conclude it's too early to tell that the Swedish principles were wrong or right.

That is fair enough.
The Swedes reckoned that given the capacity of their health service and their way of life that they could introduce limited restrictions and more or less keep these going for a long period, avoiding public confusion and opening and closing things. They have achieved this to a large extent and that is to their credit. In other places, e.g. Italy, things were out of control before the authorities got organised and they had to have a much more extensive lockdown. In Ireland, we doubted the capacity of our health service, as its runs on an knife edge at the best of times.
But in the end of the day, Sweden isn't hugely closer to herd immunity than other places, if one sixth of people have had it or one seventh is not so different, with more cases recently we are likely catching up.
If herd immunity was any use, then you would expect Spain to be closer to it than Sweden.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on September 30, 2020, 11:02:03 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 30, 2020, 10:21:23 PM
My point is this. By controlling infectious dose and immunological susceptibility of the host population we can incubate a safe infection in the population and stimulate a local T-cell immunity in the upper respiratory tract.

LOL. Very good.

Any other sentences you want to try to conjugate that mean literally nothing?


Your point is this:
"By giving people various viral loads and by suppressing their immune systems I think that a safe spread of an infectious virus can be controlled and this will result in a virtually untraceable and un-measurable response which will prove my rightness."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on September 30, 2020, 11:27:34 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on September 30, 2020, 11:02:03 PM
Quote from: trileacman on September 30, 2020, 10:21:23 PM
My point is this. By controlling infectious dose and immunological susceptibility of the host population we can incubate a safe infection in the population and stimulate a local T-cell immunity in the upper respiratory tract.

LOL. Very good.

Any other sentences you want to try to conjugate that mean literally nothing?


Your point is this:
"By giving people various viral loads and by suppressing their immune systems I think that a safe spread of an infectious virus can be controlled and this will result in a virtually untraceable and un-measurable response which will prove my rightness."

You clearly don't know what the term immunological susceptibility means. Local T-cell immunity is traceable and measurable by biopsy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 30, 2020, 11:37:01 PM
For the record 853 cases reported in all of Ireland today (429 here, 424 "up there").
While Ros was low today officially there's talk of cases in Ballagh, Boyle, Monksland, Ros Town and a few more rural locations too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 30, 2020, 11:52:13 PM
Kerry for the All Ireland
it seems their genes protect them from Covid, Firbolgs probably.
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2020/0928/1168032-kerry-covid-19-infections-blood-type-anthropology/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 12:52:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 10:36:07 PM

The thing with herd immunity is that we're working off an assumption that immunity will only last maybe 2-3 years


I don't know what you're basing that assumption off. Also strictly defining immunity in time is impossible. Immunity wanes it doesn't just stop. But for argument's sake let's say we need get an effective immunity for 6-9 months and a variable level of immunity for 12 months after that. There's very few viruses that will give you a shorter immunity than that especially one that changes as slowly as Covid-19.

There's a number of flaws in your mathematics because you're suggesting a complete cessation of immunity at 2 years and also ignoring Covid's potential for exponential spread.

So in a herd immunity plan we'd be talking about younger and healthy people being infected by Covid and isolating the elderly and those with co-morbidities. About 75% of the Irish population are under 55. So about 3.75 million. Now about 3.6% of under 55 who are infected will require hospitalisation (the math on that is a bit sketchy, it's from this paper https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1.full.pdf (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1.full.pdf) but could do with being updated). Now 17% of hospital admissions need an ICU bed so 17% of 3.6% = 0.6%. So 0.6% of people will need an ICU bed if we only infect under 55s. There's currently 400 odd ICU beds in Ireland. Say we keep 100 for non-covid cases. That leaves 300 ICU beds. Average ICU stay is 7 days. So we can infect 50,000 people weekly with out maxing out ICU capacity if we only infect the under 55s.

There's science and reasoning behind this proposal so it has to be worthy of consideration. Dismissing it out of hand whilst we wait for a vaccine that may never appear to ride over the horizon to literally save the world from Covid isn't sound policy. It's certainly risky and bold but it deserves a strict crunching of the numbers to investigate it's worthiness.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 01, 2020, 11:37:24 AM
Quote from: trileacman on September 30, 2020, 11:27:34 PM
You clearly don't know what the term immunological susceptibility means. Local T-cell immunity is traceable and measurable by biopsy.

Immunological susceptibility doesn't mean what it appears you think it means. The only way you can "control" it by suppressing immune responses.


I see blood tests for T-cells.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 12:52:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 10:36:07 PM

The thing with herd immunity is that we're working off an assumption that immunity will only last maybe 2-3 years


I don't know what you're basing that assumption off. Also strictly defining immunity in time is impossible. Immunity wanes it doesn't just stop. But for argument's sake let's say we need get an effective immunity for 6-9 months and a variable level of immunity for 12 months after that. There's very few viruses that will give you a shorter immunity than that especially one that changes as slowly as Covid-19.

There's a number of flaws in your mathematics because you're suggesting a complete cessation of immunity at 2 years and also ignoring Covid's potential for exponential spread.

So in a herd immunity plan we'd be talking about younger and healthy people being infected by Covid and isolating the elderly and those with co-morbidities. About 75% of the Irish population are under 55. So about 3.75 million. Now about 3.6% of under 55 who are infected will require hospitalisation (the math on that is a bit sketchy, it's from this paper https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1.full.pdf (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1.full.pdf) but could do with being updated). Now 17% of hospital admissions need an ICU bed so 17% of 3.6% = 0.6%. So 0.6% of people will need an ICU bed if we only infect under 55s. There's currently 400 odd ICU beds in Ireland. Say we keep 100 for non-covid cases. That leaves 300 ICU beds. Average ICU stay is 7 days. So we can infect 50,000 people weekly with out maxing out ICU capacity if we only infect the under 55s.

There's science and reasoning behind this proposal so it has to be worthy of consideration. Dismissing it out of hand whilst we wait for a vaccine that may never appear to ride over the horizon to literally save the world from Covid isn't sound policy. It's certainly risky and bold but it deserves a strict crunching of the numbers to investigate it's worthiness.
I'm basing what I said about immunity off a general picture of what I've read over the last six months, and no, I'm not saying that immunity comes to a sudden stop rather than waning, but if something wears off gradually, it's still gone at the end of it

It won't be only under 55s who get infected, that's ludicrous, it will be all ages because people who care for the old and the vulnerable will get infected and will pass it on, they do not exist in isolation from society - everybody in society is connected to each other and if the virus is as contagious as some people make out, it won't be controlled under such a strategy

Like, I find it difficult to see how somebody can simultaneously hold the view that the virus cannot be effectively suppressed among the population as a whole, but yet think that it can be suppressed in a particular age group - it just doesn't make sense

If you let over 3 million people get the virus in a short period of time, there will be a lot of deaths, much more than we currently have

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 01, 2020, 12:41:28 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 12:52:28 AM
So we can infect 50,000 people weekly with out maxing out ICU capacity if we only infect the under 55s.

There's science and reasoning behind this proposal so it has to be worthy of consideration.

In reality you can never isolate only the over 55s. Simply not possible never mind feasible.

Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 12:52:28 AM
Dismissing it out of hand whilst we wait for a vaccine that may never appear to ride over the horizon to literally save the world from Covid isn't sound policy. It's certainly risky and bold but it deserves a strict crunching of the numbers to investigate it's worthiness.

There are several candidates that are almost ready. That "may never" is quite weak.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 01, 2020, 12:52:23 PM
A good read; well worth your time:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overlooked-variable-driving-pandemic/616548/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overlooked-variable-driving-pandemic/616548/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ziggy90 on October 01, 2020, 01:42:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 30, 2020, 11:37:01 PM
For the record 853 cases reported in all of Ireland today (429 here, 424 "up there").
While Ros was low today officially there's talk of cases in Ballagh, Boyle, Monksland, Ros Town and a few more rural locations too.

Any around the Loughglynn area?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 02:01:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 12:52:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 10:36:07 PM

The thing with herd immunity is that we're working off an assumption that immunity will only last maybe 2-3 years


I don't know what you're basing that assumption off. Also strictly defining immunity in time is impossible. Immunity wanes it doesn't just stop. But for argument's sake let's say we need get an effective immunity for 6-9 months and a variable level of immunity for 12 months after that. There's very few viruses that will give you a shorter immunity than that especially one that changes as slowly as Covid-19.

There's a number of flaws in your mathematics because you're suggesting a complete cessation of immunity at 2 years and also ignoring Covid's potential for exponential spread.

So in a herd immunity plan we'd be talking about younger and healthy people being infected by Covid and isolating the elderly and those with co-morbidities. About 75% of the Irish population are under 55. So about 3.75 million. Now about 3.6% of under 55 who are infected will require hospitalisation (the math on that is a bit sketchy, it's from this paper https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1.full.pdf (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1.full.pdf) but could do with being updated). Now 17% of hospital admissions need an ICU bed so 17% of 3.6% = 0.6%. So 0.6% of people will need an ICU bed if we only infect under 55s. There's currently 400 odd ICU beds in Ireland. Say we keep 100 for non-covid cases. That leaves 300 ICU beds. Average ICU stay is 7 days. So we can infect 50,000 people weekly with out maxing out ICU capacity if we only infect the under 55s.

There's science and reasoning behind this proposal so it has to be worthy of consideration. Dismissing it out of hand whilst we wait for a vaccine that may never appear to ride over the horizon to literally save the world from Covid isn't sound policy. It's certainly risky and bold but it deserves a strict crunching of the numbers to investigate it's worthiness.
I'm basing what I said about immunity off a general picture of what I've read over the last six months, and no, I'm not saying that immunity comes to a sudden stop rather than waning, but if something wears off gradually, it's still gone at the end of it

It won't be only under 55s who get infected, that's ludicrous, it will be all ages because people who care for the old and the vulnerable will get infected and will pass it on, they do not exist in isolation from society - everybody in society is connected to each other and if the virus is as contagious as some people make out, it won't be controlled under such a strategy

Like, I find it difficult to see how somebody can simultaneously hold the view that the virus cannot be effectively suppressed among the population as a whole, but yet think that it can be suppressed in a particular age group - it just doesn't make sense

If you let over 3 million people get the virus in a short period of time, there will be a lot of deaths, much more than we currently have

There will be more deaths than we currently have irregardless of the strategy ahead. What do you propose we do then? A continued series of lockdowns isn't going to be acceptable to people for another 18 months in my opinion. There's already significant push back against the government. How else could you explain the opening of pubs whilst we're facing in to an explosive 2nd wave of infection.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 01, 2020, 02:14:13 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 02:01:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 12:52:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 10:36:07 PM

The thing with herd immunity is that we're working off an assumption that immunity will only last maybe 2-3 years


I don't know what you're basing that assumption off. Also strictly defining immunity in time is impossible. Immunity wanes it doesn't just stop. But for argument's sake let's say we need get an effective immunity for 6-9 months and a variable level of immunity for 12 months after that. There's very few viruses that will give you a shorter immunity than that especially one that changes as slowly as Covid-19.

There's a number of flaws in your mathematics because you're suggesting a complete cessation of immunity at 2 years and also ignoring Covid's potential for exponential spread.

So in a herd immunity plan we'd be talking about younger and healthy people being infected by Covid and isolating the elderly and those with co-morbidities. About 75% of the Irish population are under 55. So about 3.75 million. Now about 3.6% of under 55 who are infected will require hospitalisation (the math on that is a bit sketchy, it's from this paper https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1.full.pdf (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1.full.pdf) but could do with being updated). Now 17% of hospital admissions need an ICU bed so 17% of 3.6% = 0.6%. So 0.6% of people will need an ICU bed if we only infect under 55s. There's currently 400 odd ICU beds in Ireland. Say we keep 100 for non-covid cases. That leaves 300 ICU beds. Average ICU stay is 7 days. So we can infect 50,000 people weekly with out maxing out ICU capacity if we only infect the under 55s.

There's science and reasoning behind this proposal so it has to be worthy of consideration. Dismissing it out of hand whilst we wait for a vaccine that may never appear to ride over the horizon to literally save the world from Covid isn't sound policy. It's certainly risky and bold but it deserves a strict crunching of the numbers to investigate it's worthiness.
I'm basing what I said about immunity off a general picture of what I've read over the last six months, and no, I'm not saying that immunity comes to a sudden stop rather than waning, but if something wears off gradually, it's still gone at the end of it

It won't be only under 55s who get infected, that's ludicrous, it will be all ages because people who care for the old and the vulnerable will get infected and will pass it on, they do not exist in isolation from society - everybody in society is connected to each other and if the virus is as contagious as some people make out, it won't be controlled under such a strategy

Like, I find it difficult to see how somebody can simultaneously hold the view that the virus cannot be effectively suppressed among the population as a whole, but yet think that it can be suppressed in a particular age group - it just doesn't make sense

If you let over 3 million people get the virus in a short period of time, there will be a lot of deaths, much more than we currently have

There will be more deaths than we currently have irregardless of the strategy ahead. What do you propose we do then? A continued series of lockdowns isn't going to be acceptable to people for another 18 months in my opinion. There's already significant push back against the government. How else could you explain the opening of pubs whilst we're facing in to an explosive 2nd wave of infection.

Bars have been closed for months upon months. Infection continued to hold/rise. That particular industry has been scapegoated to the hilt. I expect that to continue as they now continue to reopen. Time to find a new football. People deserve the right to try and earn a living. 

As a teetotaller it makes no difference to me if they are open or closed but again, it's been a victim of "this suits us, lets nail it". When the same people likely will deny a new rise in cases directly coincides with the schools reopening because that doesn't suit them.

Too much of the commentary regarding this virus comes with degrees of such and such won't impact my life, so let's deflect the blame there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 02:01:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 12:52:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 10:36:07 PM

The thing with herd immunity is that we're working off an assumption that immunity will only last maybe 2-3 years


I don't know what you're basing that assumption off. Also strictly defining immunity in time is impossible. Immunity wanes it doesn't just stop. But for argument's sake let's say we need get an effective immunity for 6-9 months and a variable level of immunity for 12 months after that. There's very few viruses that will give you a shorter immunity than that especially one that changes as slowly as Covid-19.

There's a number of flaws in your mathematics because you're suggesting a complete cessation of immunity at 2 years and also ignoring Covid's potential for exponential spread.

So in a herd immunity plan we'd be talking about younger and healthy people being infected by Covid and isolating the elderly and those with co-morbidities. About 75% of the Irish population are under 55. So about 3.75 million. Now about 3.6% of under 55 who are infected will require hospitalisation (the math on that is a bit sketchy, it's from this paper https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1.full.pdf (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1.full.pdf) but could do with being updated). Now 17% of hospital admissions need an ICU bed so 17% of 3.6% = 0.6%. So 0.6% of people will need an ICU bed if we only infect under 55s. There's currently 400 odd ICU beds in Ireland. Say we keep 100 for non-covid cases. That leaves 300 ICU beds. Average ICU stay is 7 days. So we can infect 50,000 people weekly with out maxing out ICU capacity if we only infect the under 55s.

There's science and reasoning behind this proposal so it has to be worthy of consideration. Dismissing it out of hand whilst we wait for a vaccine that may never appear to ride over the horizon to literally save the world from Covid isn't sound policy. It's certainly risky and bold but it deserves a strict crunching of the numbers to investigate it's worthiness.
I'm basing what I said about immunity off a general picture of what I've read over the last six months, and no, I'm not saying that immunity comes to a sudden stop rather than waning, but if something wears off gradually, it's still gone at the end of it

It won't be only under 55s who get infected, that's ludicrous, it will be all ages because people who care for the old and the vulnerable will get infected and will pass it on, they do not exist in isolation from society - everybody in society is connected to each other and if the virus is as contagious as some people make out, it won't be controlled under such a strategy

Like, I find it difficult to see how somebody can simultaneously hold the view that the virus cannot be effectively suppressed among the population as a whole, but yet think that it can be suppressed in a particular age group - it just doesn't make sense

If you let over 3 million people get the virus in a short period of time, there will be a lot of deaths, much more than we currently have

There will be more deaths than we currently have irregardless of the strategy ahead. What do you propose we do then? A continued series of lockdowns isn't going to be acceptable to people for another 18 months in my opinion. There's already significant push back against the government. How else could you explain the opening of pubs whilst we're facing in to an explosive 2nd wave of infection.
The aim of policy has to be to minimise deaths, this is the most basic function of government

I think the zero Covid strategy is worth a genuinely serious investigation, that would be the only way you could open up your internal economy fully with no restrictions

The current strategy of tinkering with liberalisation while still having an option to reverse should things go wrong is still a lot better than no strategy except let it rip

I think both of the above strategies aim to minimise deaths, just in different ways

Letting it rip doesn't aim to minimise deaths, it's basically a big, crazy plan to bring a lot of deaths forward

That would be incredibly irresponsible and immoral and wouldn't work in economic terms either

Pubs are open because the authorities believe they can open them without things getting out of control, it's a dip your toes in the water and see what happens manoeuvre, you can reverse it if it fails

I remain to be convinced pubs opening will work but sure we'll see what happens, maybe it will, I suppose we have to keep dipping our toes in the water, it's the only way we'll know what will happen

If the pubs and the schools can open while still keeping a modicum of control over the virus, you might then be able to move on to the next step which would probably be admitting small crowds to sports arenas

This will no doubt be a very testing winter for everybody



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 01, 2020, 02:41:47 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 01, 2020, 12:52:23 PM
A good read; well worth your time:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overlooked-variable-driving-pandemic/616548/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overlooked-variable-driving-pandemic/616548/)

Very interesting. Some stat that 10-20% of those infected are responsible for 80-90% of infections?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 01, 2020, 03:55:45 PM
Quote from: ziggy90 on October 01, 2020, 01:42:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 30, 2020, 11:37:01 PM
For the record 853 cases reported in all of Ireland today (429 here, 424 "up there").
While Ros was low today officially there's talk of cases in Ballagh, Boyle, Monksland, Ros Town and a few more rural locations too.

Any around the Loughglynn area?
Haven't heard it mentioned but it's a bit far west.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 01, 2020, 05:34:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2020, 03:55:45 PM
Quote from: ziggy90 on October 01, 2020, 01:42:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 30, 2020, 11:37:01 PM
For the record 853 cases reported in all of Ireland today (429 here, 424 "up there").
While Ros was low today officially there's talk of cases in Ballagh, Boyle, Monksland, Ros Town and a few more rural locations too.

Any around the Loughglynn area?
Haven't heard it mentioned but it's a bit far west.

As is Ballaghaderreen  ;)

442 more with 4 deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 01, 2020, 06:28:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2020, 03:55:45 PM
Haven't heard it mentioned but it's a bit far west.

Being too far West is a problem for Roscommon generally.

The point was made in the summer that there were few deaths and there were more deaths on the road etc. Now we see that although it is mostly young people that have this there are some deaths, it remains a fatal disease.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 01, 2020, 06:38:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 01, 2020, 06:28:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2020, 03:55:45 PM
Haven't heard it mentioned but it's a bit far west.

Being too far West is a problem for Roscommon generally.

The point was made in the summer that there were few deaths and there were more deaths on the road etc. Now we see that although it is mostly young people that have this there are some deaths, it remains a fatal disease.

Only 4 covid deaths in August in ROI compared to 32 in September. If cases continues to rise so too will the deaths.

This is the latest on vaccines. Looks like one could be approved soon but could still be a while before this island gets it.

(https://i.imgur.com/BmgBLhg.jpg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 01, 2020, 07:22:46 PM
I presume the above does not include the Russian and Chinese vaccines? These are being tested in a somewhat unorthodox manner, but if it becomes apparent that they work then they have to come into the mix.

The EU has contracts for some of these, I expect they will allocate a small amount of vaccine to Ireland which will help out health care workers at least.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 09:17:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 02:01:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 12:52:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 10:36:07 PM

The thing with herd immunity is that we're working off an assumption that immunity will only last maybe 2-3 years


I don't know what you're basing that assumption off. Also strictly defining immunity in time is impossible. Immunity wanes it doesn't just stop. But for argument's sake let's say we need get an effective immunity for 6-9 months and a variable level of immunity for 12 months after that. There's very few viruses that will give you a shorter immunity than that especially one that changes as slowly as Covid-19.

There's a number of flaws in your mathematics because you're suggesting a complete cessation of immunity at 2 years and also ignoring Covid's potential for exponential spread.

So in a herd immunity plan we'd be talking about younger and healthy people being infected by Covid and isolating the elderly and those with co-morbidities. About 75% of the Irish population are under 55. So about 3.75 million. Now about 3.6% of under 55 who are infected will require hospitalisation (the math on that is a bit sketchy, it's from this paper https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1.full.pdf (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1.full.pdf) but could do with being updated). Now 17% of hospital admissions need an ICU bed so 17% of 3.6% = 0.6%. So 0.6% of people will need an ICU bed if we only infect under 55s. There's currently 400 odd ICU beds in Ireland. Say we keep 100 for non-covid cases. That leaves 300 ICU beds. Average ICU stay is 7 days. So we can infect 50,000 people weekly with out maxing out ICU capacity if we only infect the under 55s.

There's science and reasoning behind this proposal so it has to be worthy of consideration. Dismissing it out of hand whilst we wait for a vaccine that may never appear to ride over the horizon to literally save the world from Covid isn't sound policy. It's certainly risky and bold but it deserves a strict crunching of the numbers to investigate it's worthiness.
I'm basing what I said about immunity off a general picture of what I've read over the last six months, and no, I'm not saying that immunity comes to a sudden stop rather than waning, but if something wears off gradually, it's still gone at the end of it

It won't be only under 55s who get infected, that's ludicrous, it will be all ages because people who care for the old and the vulnerable will get infected and will pass it on, they do not exist in isolation from society - everybody in society is connected to each other and if the virus is as contagious as some people make out, it won't be controlled under such a strategy

Like, I find it difficult to see how somebody can simultaneously hold the view that the virus cannot be effectively suppressed among the population as a whole, but yet think that it can be suppressed in a particular age group - it just doesn't make sense

If you let over 3 million people get the virus in a short period of time, there will be a lot of deaths, much more than we currently have

There will be more deaths than we currently have irregardless of the strategy ahead. What do you propose we do then? A continued series of lockdowns isn't going to be acceptable to people for another 18 months in my opinion. There's already significant push back against the government. How else could you explain the opening of pubs whilst we're facing in to an explosive 2nd wave of infection.
The aim of policy has to be to minimise deaths, this is the most basic function of government


If that was the aim of policy we would currently be in lockdown. We'd have closed ever sea, air and land border and everyone would be at home. Cases and deaths are rising. If the aim of policy is to minimise deaths then it is failing miserably.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 01, 2020, 09:37:49 PM
The dup would never allow channels to their beloved mainland to be shut. It just wouldn't happen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 09:51:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 01, 2020, 09:37:49 PM
The dup would never allow channels to their beloved mainland to be shut. It just wouldn't happen.

Exactly. And no Dublin government will impose a hard border along the 6 counties. So a zero Covid policy isn't a realistic proposition.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 10:07:20 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 09:51:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 01, 2020, 09:37:49 PM
The dup would never allow channels to their beloved mainland to be shut. It just wouldn't happen.

Exactly. And no Dublin government will impose a hard border along the 6 counties. So a zero Covid policy isn't a realistic proposition.

0 Covid is achievable by Christmas according to Sam McConkey. You would think coming from a border county how impossible that is. He then went on talking about 0 Covid in Faro Islands and Greenland. Apples and Oranges.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 01, 2020, 10:51:04 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 01, 2020, 10:07:20 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 09:51:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 01, 2020, 09:37:49 PM
The dup would never allow channels to their beloved mainland to be shut. It just wouldn't happen.

Exactly. And no Dublin government will impose a hard border along the 6 counties. So a zero Covid policy isn't a realistic proposition.

0 Covid is achievable by Christmas according to Sam McConkey. You would think coming from a border county how impossible that is. He then went on talking about 0 Covid in Faro Islands and Greenland. Apples and Oranges.

Of course he knows about the border, he is simply stating that if the politicians take the necessary steps it can be done, the likelihood of Stormont acting responsibly is very small. There is a feck all Covid in China or Taiwan, places bigger than Ireland.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 01:02:18 AM
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 09:17:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 02:35:13 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 02:01:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 01, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 12:52:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 30, 2020, 10:36:07 PM

The thing with herd immunity is that we're working off an assumption that immunity will only last maybe 2-3 years


I don't know what you're basing that assumption off. Also strictly defining immunity in time is impossible. Immunity wanes it doesn't just stop. But for argument's sake let's say we need get an effective immunity for 6-9 months and a variable level of immunity for 12 months after that. There's very few viruses that will give you a shorter immunity than that especially one that changes as slowly as Covid-19.

There's a number of flaws in your mathematics because you're suggesting a complete cessation of immunity at 2 years and also ignoring Covid's potential for exponential spread.

So in a herd immunity plan we'd be talking about younger and healthy people being infected by Covid and isolating the elderly and those with co-morbidities. About 75% of the Irish population are under 55. So about 3.75 million. Now about 3.6% of under 55 who are infected will require hospitalisation (the math on that is a bit sketchy, it's from this paper https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1.full.pdf (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1.full.pdf) but could do with being updated). Now 17% of hospital admissions need an ICU bed so 17% of 3.6% = 0.6%. So 0.6% of people will need an ICU bed if we only infect under 55s. There's currently 400 odd ICU beds in Ireland. Say we keep 100 for non-covid cases. That leaves 300 ICU beds. Average ICU stay is 7 days. So we can infect 50,000 people weekly with out maxing out ICU capacity if we only infect the under 55s.

There's science and reasoning behind this proposal so it has to be worthy of consideration. Dismissing it out of hand whilst we wait for a vaccine that may never appear to ride over the horizon to literally save the world from Covid isn't sound policy. It's certainly risky and bold but it deserves a strict crunching of the numbers to investigate it's worthiness.
I'm basing what I said about immunity off a general picture of what I've read over the last six months, and no, I'm not saying that immunity comes to a sudden stop rather than waning, but if something wears off gradually, it's still gone at the end of it

It won't be only under 55s who get infected, that's ludicrous, it will be all ages because people who care for the old and the vulnerable will get infected and will pass it on, they do not exist in isolation from society - everybody in society is connected to each other and if the virus is as contagious as some people make out, it won't be controlled under such a strategy

Like, I find it difficult to see how somebody can simultaneously hold the view that the virus cannot be effectively suppressed among the population as a whole, but yet think that it can be suppressed in a particular age group - it just doesn't make sense

If you let over 3 million people get the virus in a short period of time, there will be a lot of deaths, much more than we currently have

There will be more deaths than we currently have irregardless of the strategy ahead. What do you propose we do then? A continued series of lockdowns isn't going to be acceptable to people for another 18 months in my opinion. There's already significant push back against the government. How else could you explain the opening of pubs whilst we're facing in to an explosive 2nd wave of infection.
The aim of policy has to be to minimise deaths, this is the most basic function of government


If that was the aim of policy we would currently be in lockdown. We'd have closed ever sea, air and land border and everyone would be at home. Cases and deaths are rising. If the aim of policy is to minimise deaths then it is failing miserably.
It isn't failing miserably

Mistakes were made in the initial wave certainly

We have had a small number of deaths over the last few months while opening up the economy as much as possible

It's a balancing act, minimise deaths while opening up

That is not miserable failure by any stretch of the imagination
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 10:25:13 AM
You said the aim was to reduce deaths, now you're saying it's a balancing act between opening up and reducing deaths. So which is it? What level of deaths are acceptable?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 02, 2020, 01:10:35 PM
Heading towards a lockdown over Halloween I fear! Get your bog roll in
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 02, 2020, 01:50:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 02, 2020, 01:10:35 PM
Heading towards a lockdown over Halloween I fear! Get your bog roll in

Yep, again trying to cod the public though with this "circuit breaker" nonsense instead of being up front and admitting the schools reopening has had more of an effect than they expected.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 02, 2020, 01:50:52 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 10:25:13 AM
You said the aim was to reduce deaths, now you're saying it's a balancing act between opening up and reducing deaths. So which is it? What level of deaths are acceptable?

Other people's deaths are much more acceptable than our own or people we know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on October 02, 2020, 02:13:21 PM
934 new cases in the north yesterday!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on October 02, 2020, 02:44:58 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on October 02, 2020, 02:13:21 PM
934 new cases in the north yesterday!

more than double the previous record of 424 new cases set earlier this week. 6,038 individuals tested so roughly one in six tested positive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 02, 2020, 02:56:58 PM
Bloody hell. Will there be another lockdown in the north?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 02, 2020, 03:10:35 PM
Yikes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on October 02, 2020, 03:19:03 PM
Worrying news.  It is hard for people in the north to put that into context compared to March and April though cos of the severe lack of testing during that assumed peak.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 02, 2020, 03:35:00 PM
Surely the most relevant statistic is the deaths though. I know it will probably take a number of weeks to quantify that as the spread is only reaching peak levels now but that must be the real barometer.

For whatever reason, the second wave doesn't seem to be as fatal as the first, whether that is down to being better prepared, the virus not being as potent or the fact that it's a younger demograph impacted I don't know.

Science still scratching itself about this anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 03:39:28 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 10:25:13 AM
You said the aim was to reduce deaths, now you're saying it's a balancing act between opening up and reducing deaths. So which is it? What level of deaths are acceptable?
You're just being an internet eejit

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 03:53:11 PM
There are currently 25 active outbreaks in care homes in the North, according to the Belfast Telegraph

You simply can't let this virus spread and simultaneously contain it among the old and vulnerable
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 02, 2020, 04:08:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 02, 2020, 03:35:00 PM


Science still scratching itself about this anyway.

Rare I agree with you Angelo but this very true.

I still think the worry is deaths may ramp up as on the initial wave it was slow. I think to some degree they have learnt in terms of treating it and when and when not to go on ventilators etc. Be interesting to read learnings.

Worrying if it's back in care homes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 02, 2020, 04:16:39 PM
Could it not be a case of the north getting a first wave, when you compare it to London, which is relatively low going by its population and density.

Got an alert on the UK covid app that I was in close contact with someone who tested positive. I'm working in London. That's all it told me really. Thought it would have said where etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hereiam on October 02, 2020, 04:30:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 02, 2020, 03:35:00 PM
Surely the most relevant statistic is the deaths though. I know it will probably take a number of weeks to quantify that as the spread is only reaching peak levels now but that must be the real barometer.

For whatever reason, the second wave doesn't seem to be as fatal as the first, whether that is down to being better prepared, the virus not being as potent or the fact that it's a younger demograph impacted I don't know.

Science still scratching itself about this anyway.

This virus was about in December of last year so god knows what the number of cases were back at the start of March to attribute the number of deaths at that stage. We could be in for a very rough winter if this virus is not brought under control.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 02, 2020, 05:43:04 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 02, 2020, 04:08:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 02, 2020, 03:35:00 PM
Surely the most relevant statistic is the deaths though. I know it will probably take a number of weeks to quantify that as the spread is only reaching peak levels now but that must be the real barometer.

For whatever reason, the second wave doesn't seem to be as fatal as the first, whether that is down to being better prepared, the virus not being as potent or the fact that it's a younger demograph impacted I don't know.

Science still scratching itself about this anyway.

Rare I agree with you Angelo but this very true.

I still think the worry is deaths may ramp up as on the initial wave it was slow. I think to some degree they have learnt in terms of treating it and when and when not to go on ventilators etc. Be interesting to read learnings.

Worrying if it's back in care homes.

Lads, have a gawk: https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/articles/covid-19-daily-dashboard-updates

Science is not 'scratching itself', and the answers you are looking are there for you too if you want them.

But to summarise in case that's too much bother:

~66% of cases in NI in the last week were in the under 40s. Most, if not all, of these people will live.
Only ~2% of cases (56) came from the most at risk cohort of over 80s. We'll have to see about this lot in the next few weeks.

This goes a way to explaining why the death to positive test rate is much lower than earlier in the year. The auld ones are still locked away and taking care of themselves, while it's the under 40s out 'living their best lives' driving up the numbers. Eventually, though, there will be a spill over into the vulnerable groupings and we'll see bigger death numbers. The vulnerable can't and won't exist in complete isolation from their communities.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on October 02, 2020, 05:55:34 PM
Frightening numbers in the North today.

470 in the South today (198 in Dublin).

Is this a case of the North lacking leadership or the young people not giving a shite.

The death rate is low because the elderly/vulnerable are isolating but really how long can that last? Quality of life is brutal for them currently (and I know it would be much worse if they died).

Sids figures of amount of care homes impacted is very worrying

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 02, 2020, 06:27:40 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 02, 2020, 05:55:34 PM
Frightening numbers in the North today.

470 in the South today (198 in Dublin).

Is this a case of the North lacking leadership or the young people not giving a shite.

The death rate is low because the elderly/vulnerable are isolating but really how long can that last? Quality of life is brutal for them currently (and I know it would be much worse if they died).

Sids figures of amount of care homes impacted is very worrying
Lack of leadership and people having no respect for those so called leaders.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on October 02, 2020, 06:45:03 PM
Derry ones ridin Letterkenny prostitutes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 02, 2020, 06:48:34 PM
Any word on which DUP MP is self isolation as a result of having dinner with that SNP MP that tested positive?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on October 02, 2020, 06:57:17 PM
Jim Shannon
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 02, 2020, 07:11:16 PM
Yeah I see that. There's no word of anyone else self isolating as a result of sitting at that dining table is there, or was it a cozy twosome? Just asking for a friend
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 02, 2020, 07:13:05 PM
What is the story with the south and universities? It doesn't sound like the same has happened with halls of residence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on October 02, 2020, 07:17:24 PM
Shannon story shouldn't get buried.

Shannon is self isolating back home in Strangford. He flew home after a negative test result.

PHE advice is to immediately self isolate after coming into close contact with a confirmed case. Negative test does not change this (as it could of course still be incubating). It's akin to Phil Hogan taking a test, coming up negative and saying that he was grand to do what he wanted and didn't have to abide by the rules everyone else did.

House of Commons authorities told Shannon he could fly home. BBC has seen a letter to him saying "I can confirm you are ok to fly home this evening"

So, irrespective of anything else, Shannon appears to have breached PHE guidance and the HoC authorities appear to have assisted him in doing so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 07:39:15 PM
Where's all the gobsihtes that told us Covid would be at 0 by Christmas now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 07:40:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 03:39:28 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 10:25:13 AM
You said the aim was to reduce deaths, now you're saying it's a balancing act between opening up and reducing deaths. So which is it? What level of deaths are acceptable?
You're just being an internet eejit
Can you answer the question or not? What level of deaths are acceptable?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 02, 2020, 08:23:43 PM
The level of death acceptable should be always be more than total amounts of deaths that are a byproduct of Covid. Such as undetected terminal health problems, suicide, mental health decline.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 02, 2020, 08:50:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 02, 2020, 08:23:43 PM
The level of death acceptable should be always be more than total amounts of deaths that are a byproduct of Covid. Such as undetected terminal health problems, suicide, mental health decline.

Yes, but undetected health problems are not helped by allowing Covid run rampant, the best thing for health problems would be no Covid. Suicide presents problems as you can't have a public policy which regards one group of people as dispensable because of the threat of actions by others, so this is an immoral comparison.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 08:54:45 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 02, 2020, 08:50:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 02, 2020, 08:23:43 PM
The level of death acceptable should be always be more than total amounts of deaths that are a byproduct of Covid. Such as undetected terminal health problems, suicide, mental health decline.
Suicide presents problems as you can't have a public policy which regards one group of people as dispensable because of the threat of actions by others, so this is an immoral comparison.

Are you saying comparing those who die by suicide with those who die by Covid is immoral?

Quote from: armaghniac on October 02, 2020, 08:50:01 PM
Yes, but undetected health problems are not helped by allowing Covid run rampant, the best thing for health problems would be no Covid.

We all understand what would be best is that there is no Covid but blatantly stating the obvious achieves nothing. Unless of course you're advocating a zero Covid policy. In which case your opinion of the recent government policy of opening schools, opening pubs, eat out/help out scheme, return of premier league, GAA and other sports is that it has directly led to hundreds of avoidable deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 09:04:42 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 07:40:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 03:39:28 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 10:25:13 AM
You said the aim was to reduce deaths, now you're saying it's a balancing act between opening up and reducing deaths. So which is it? What level of deaths are acceptable?
You're just being an internet eejit
Can you answer the question or not? What level of deaths are acceptable?
Clearly in your case it's a hell of a lot more than mine given that you're proposing letting the virus rip through the population

I'm not proposing that, so it's you that should be answering that question, not me
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 09:16:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 09:04:42 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 07:40:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 03:39:28 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 10:25:13 AM
You said the aim was to reduce deaths, now you're saying it's a balancing act between opening up and reducing deaths. So which is it? What level of deaths are acceptable?
You're just being an internet eejit
Can you answer the question or not? What level of deaths are acceptable?
Clearly in your case it's a hell of a lot more than mine given that you're proposing letting the virus rip through the population

I'm not proposing that, so it's you that should be answering that question, not me
Right I'll ask a simpler question for you. Should the government not issue a full-lockdown to get on top of current Covid infections, given that the rise in infections will undoubtedly lead to deaths and people having long term health effects?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 02, 2020, 09:26:21 PM
Hope springs corona
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 09:27:44 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 09:16:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 09:04:42 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 07:40:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 03:39:28 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 10:25:13 AM
You said the aim was to reduce deaths, now you're saying it's a balancing act between opening up and reducing deaths. So which is it? What level of deaths are acceptable?
You're just being an internet eejit
Can you answer the question or not? What level of deaths are acceptable?
Clearly in your case it's a hell of a lot more than mine given that you're proposing letting the virus rip through the population

I'm not proposing that, so it's you that should be answering that question, not me
Right I'll ask a simpler question for you. Should the government not issue a full-lockdown to get on top of current Covid infections, given that the rise in infections will undoubtedly lead to deaths and people having long term health effects?
That's always an option and as a layman looking at the figures I'd say it's well possible at some stage in the not too distant future

I'm not an expert so I can't say whether it's necessary - I trust NPHET to make the right decision though - they're the experts

Again as a layman looking at the NI figures it would seem to me that it will probably be necessary there very soon

It looks like the nature of tinkering with liberalisation of the restrictions is that at some stage you go slightly too far and have to apply quenching measures

I have a lot a sympathy for those making the decisions because they're trying to juggle public health and sustaining people's livelihoods, it's a lot of responsibility
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 02, 2020, 10:25:05 PM
Trump got experimental drug and is now off to hospital.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 02, 2020, 10:25:20 PM
Trump off to hospital.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 02, 2020, 10:25:59 PM
Is it the experimental medication or Covid that has Trump hospitalized?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 10:30:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 09:27:44 PM
That's always an option and as a layman looking at the figures I'd say it's well possible at some stage in the not too distant future

I'm not an expert so I can't say whether it's necessary - I trust NPHET to make the right decision though - they're the experts

Again as a layman looking at the NI figures it would seem to me that it will probably be necessary there very soon

It looks like the nature of tinkering with liberalisation of the restrictions is that at some stage you go slightly too far and have to apply quenching measures

I have a lot a sympathy for those making the decisions because they're trying to juggle public health and sustaining people's livelihoods, it's a lot of responsibility

QuoteThe aim of policy has to be to minimise deaths, this is the most basic function of government

I think the zero Covid strategy is worth a genuinely serious investigation, that would be the only way you could open up your internal economy fully with no restrictions

I don't see how you can equivocate these two positions you have sid. You think lockdown might be necessary soon in Northern Ireland? What are they waiting for then? Why are they letting people catch the virus? Why are they letting people suffer from the long-term consequences of it? If the virus is so serious, can strike down any age group, can have sure debilitating long lasting effects why the fcuk would you accept that it's necessary to continue to let people catch it?

Have you given up hope that the government will try to eradicate this disease?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 10:30:45 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 02, 2020, 10:25:59 PM
Is it the experimental medication or Covid that has Trump hospitalized?

Covid. It's all but assured that he's on the way out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 10:39:29 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 10:30:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 09:27:44 PM
That's always an option and as a layman looking at the figures I'd say it's well possible at some stage in the not too distant future

I'm not an expert so I can't say whether it's necessary - I trust NPHET to make the right decision though - they're the experts

Again as a layman looking at the NI figures it would seem to me that it will probably be necessary there very soon

It looks like the nature of tinkering with liberalisation of the restrictions is that at some stage you go slightly too far and have to apply quenching measures

I have a lot a sympathy for those making the decisions because they're trying to juggle public health and sustaining people's livelihoods, it's a lot of responsibility

QuoteThe aim of policy has to be to minimise deaths, this is the most basic function of government

I think the zero Covid strategy is worth a genuinely serious investigation, that would be the only way you could open up your internal economy fully with no restrictions

I don't see how you can equivocate these two positions you have sid. You think lockdown might be necessary soon in Northern Ireland? What are they waiting for then? Why are they letting people catch the virus? Why are they letting people suffer from the long-term consequences of it? If the virus is so serious, can strike down any age group, can have sure debilitating long lasting effects why the fcuk would you accept that it's necessary to continue to let people catch it?

Have you given up hope that the government will try to eradicate this disease?

Wha?

The experts are the people who decide whether a lockdown will be necessary

They have the figures and the data and the expertise to know whether one is necessary, if it's necessary I expect there will be one

Zero Covid is not eradication, it's reduction of community transmission to zero as far as I know

Your debating strategy is going into full blown internet eejit territory
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 02, 2020, 10:40:54 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 02, 2020, 10:25:20 PM
Trump off to hospital.
Serious situation considering Trump age and weight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 10:46:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 10:39:29 PM

Zero Covid is not eradication, it's reduction of community transmission to zero


Wha? Which experts do you agree with then? NPET? the British experts? the Swedish experts? Which experts have been right?

There's no need to respond with "eejit" personal abuse sid. If you can't argue your point convincingly then just say nothing.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 11:10:43 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 10:46:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 10:39:29 PM

Zero Covid is not eradication, it's reduction of community transmission to zero


Wha? Which experts do you agree with then? NPET? the British experts? the Swedish experts? Which experts have been right?

There's no need to respond with "eejit" personal abuse sid. If you can't argue your point convincingly then just say nothing.
It's not that complicated, mate

Zero Covid and the current strategy in Eire are both a hell of a lot better than letting the virus rip

I said you were veering into eejitry because you are

My position is perfectly logical

And you're the person that needs to answer the question about what's an acceptable level of death because you're the person proposing to let the virus rip, not me

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 11:30:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 11:10:43 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 10:46:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 10:39:29 PM

Zero Covid is not eradication, it's reduction of community transmission to zero


Wha? Which experts do you agree with then? NPET? the British experts? the Swedish experts? Which experts have been right?

There's no need to respond with "eejit" personal abuse sid. If you can't argue your point convincingly then just say nothing.
It's not that complicated, mate

Zero Covid and the current strategy in Eire are both a hell of a lot better than letting the virus rip

I said you were veering into eejitry because you are

My position is perfectly logical

And you're the person that needs to answer the question about what's an acceptable level of death because you're the person proposing to let the virus rip, not me

Where'd I say let the virus rip?

mate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 11:42:45 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 11:30:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 11:10:43 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 02, 2020, 10:46:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 10:39:29 PM

Zero Covid is not eradication, it's reduction of community transmission to zero


Wha? Which experts do you agree with then? NPET? the British experts? the Swedish experts? Which experts have been right?

There's no need to respond with "eejit" personal abuse sid. If you can't argue your point convincingly then just say nothing.
It's not that complicated, mate

Zero Covid and the current strategy in Eire are both a hell of a lot better than letting the virus rip

I said you were veering into eejitry because you are

My position is perfectly logical

And you're the person that needs to answer the question about what's an acceptable level of death because you're the person proposing to let the virus rip, not me

Where'd I say let the virus rip?

mate.

Here

Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 12:52:28 AM


So in a herd immunity plan we'd be talking about younger and healthy people being infected by Covid and isolating the elderly and those with co-morbidities. About 75% of the Irish population are under 55. So about 3.75 million. Now about 3.6% of under 55 who are infected will require hospitalisation (the math on that is a bit sketchy, it's from this paper https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1.full.pdf (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.23.20076042v1.full.pdf) but could do with being updated). Now 17% of hospital admissions need an ICU bed so 17% of 3.6% = 0.6%. So 0.6% of people will need an ICU bed if we only infect under 55s. There's currently 400 odd ICU beds in Ireland. Say we keep 100 for non-covid cases. That leaves 300 ICU beds. Average ICU stay is 7 days. So we can infect 50,000 people weekly with out maxing out ICU capacity if we only infect the under 55s.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 02, 2020, 11:50:59 PM
Away to hospital, but looks grand on his twitter video.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 11:56:59 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 02, 2020, 11:50:59 PM
Away to hospital, but looks grand on his twitter video.
Course he's grand, the whole focus on this is a parable for our times

Much ado about nothing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 03, 2020, 12:40:47 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 02, 2020, 10:40:54 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 02, 2020, 10:25:20 PM
Trump off to hospital.
Serious situation considering Trump age and weight.
He's in three vulnerable groups. Old, obese, and poor.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 03, 2020, 01:53:00 AM
Seems the Amy Covid Barrett announcement was a superspreader event

Ugh, filthy, Republicans have terrible hygiene
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 03, 2020, 08:42:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 11:56:59 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 02, 2020, 11:50:59 PM
Away to hospital, but looks grand on his twitter video.
Course he's grand, the whole focus on this is a parable for our times

Much ado about nothing

It a simple comment on a video released amid reports of the president being rushed to hospital, for what was portrayed to be obviously a lot more of an emergency than what is was.

Give the Dunning–Kruger effect a google, should keep you busy for a bit instead of trying to twist with every comment on this board.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 03, 2020, 10:13:10 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 03, 2020, 08:42:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 02, 2020, 11:56:59 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 02, 2020, 11:50:59 PM
Away to hospital, but looks grand on his twitter video.
Course he's grand, the whole focus on this is a parable for our times

Much ado about nothing

It a simple comment on a video released amid reports of the president being rushed to hospital, for what was portrayed to be obviously a lot more of an emergency than what is was.

Give the Dunning–Kruger effect a google, should keep you busy for a bit instead of trying to twist with every comment on this board.
Huh?

I wasn't trying to twist anything

I was agreeing with your comment

Which now makes your latest comment rather ironic
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 03, 2020, 10:43:20 AM
There are more people from the White House in hospital with Covid-19 than there are in the entirety of New Zealand

But apparently New Zealand are the ones who are failing, not the US

At least if you believe right wing internet "experts"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 03, 2020, 06:14:56 PM
more right wing protests today in dublin
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2020, 06:34:47 PM
1,339 cases on the island of Ireland today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on October 03, 2020, 06:41:40 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2020, 06:34:47 PM
1,339 cases on the island of Ireland today.

Another lock down on the way I'd say.  Need to do something as they are huge numbers and Halloween (i.e. circuiy breaker) is over 3 weeks away....if nothing is done, what will the figures be like then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 03, 2020, 09:03:08 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2020, 06:34:47 PM
1,339 cases on the island of Ireland today.

About the same as Germany, which has 11 times the population.
This is a consequence of complacency while numbers were increasing every week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on October 03, 2020, 09:05:43 PM
Complacency?
Germany had 12000 supporters at 1 single soccer match today
I'd say it's to do with the way the governments have dealt with things
German schools back long ago
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 03, 2020, 09:35:23 PM
the alt right is now everywhere in ireland seems like ireland maybe in some sort of cold civil war and the so called republicans have let the alr right get a hold in ireland
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 03, 2020, 10:23:24 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 03, 2020, 06:41:40 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 03, 2020, 06:34:47 PM
1,339 cases on the island of Ireland today.

Another lock down on the way I'd say.  Need to do something as they are huge numbers and Halloween (i.e. circuiy breaker) is over 3 weeks away....if nothing is done, what will the figures be like then?

On the spot fines, £500 for no masks in shops, street gathering like seen in Galway and for house gatherings.

You won't fine everyone but people will more likely put on a mask to go in a shop if they think a £500 fine could await them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 03, 2020, 10:24:00 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on October 03, 2020, 09:05:43 PM
Complacency?
Germany had 12000 supporters at 1 single soccer match today
I'd say it's to do with the way the governments have dealt with things
German schools back long ago

Governments don't spread Covid, except for Trump's perhaps, people do. Perhaps the German government does a better job of enforcing regulations etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: manfromdelmonte on October 03, 2020, 10:43:54 PM
Cannot believe they allowed all these communion ceremonies and ergo house parties to go ahead the last few weeks
Madness
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 03, 2020, 10:50:17 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 02:01:03 PM
There will be more deaths than we currently have irregardless of the strategy ahead. What do you propose we do then?

A continued series of lockdowns isn't going to be acceptable to people for another 18 months in my opinion. There's already significant push back against the government. How else could you explain the opening of pubs whilst we're facing in to an explosive 2nd wave of infection.

A continued series of lockdowns is going to be what you get. People will just have to get over themselves.


In terms of what could be done different, there are many things. But first, the govts must realise that there is no cheap fix.

Given where we are at the moment, the below is a non exhaustive list of what can be done:
1. All secondary schools are shut and education worked remotely. Secondary school kids do not need parents at home to babysit them.
2. Primary schools can use secondary school facilities to reduce class densities. If education budgets need to swell to employ thousands of additional teaching/support staff on a temp contract, so be it.
3. Pubs/Bars are closed. End of discussion. The govt can service any loan/rent/wage etc as long as there is evidence of it being in place before covid.
4. Table distances in restaurants are upped to 3m as walking past many of them daily, they clearly cannot understand what distancing means. Surprise inspections that don't adhere means loss of licence.
5. Availability of testing, encompassing both criteria for getting a test and the existence of local test sites, needs dramatic improvement.
6. Govt funded ramping up of food delivery services - i.e. delivery service operated for free from a local supermarket.
7. Start filtering uni students through testing & isolation centres, negative tests are sent home, positive are quarantined, all are isolated from test starting to test result returned.
8. Despite 1 & 2, I expect primary schools will have to shut again. The dept of education needs to make a common online learning system that can be used by all kids. If they haven't been, why the f**k not?
9. All office based businesses have until start of Nov to get in place work from home arrangements. No exceptions. If their IT infrastructure is that shi! - then its a tough lesson for the f**kwit(s) in charge.
10.  Airports are shut. Seaports are restricted to cargo only.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 03, 2020, 10:52:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 03, 2020, 10:24:00 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on October 03, 2020, 09:05:43 PM
Complacency?
Germany had 12000 supporters at 1 single soccer match today
I'd say it's to do with the way the governments have dealt with things
German schools back long ago

Governments don't spread Covid, except for Trump's perhaps, people do. Perhaps the German government does a better job of enforcing regulations etc.

Germany doesn't have as many idiots as here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on October 03, 2020, 10:52:55 PM
Eat out dine out in the middle of a pandemic
Ignoring the rules that were applied by the government (CUMMINGS)
Telling everyone to get back out to work (Boris)
Closing bars at 1030

Madness
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on October 03, 2020, 11:08:03 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on October 03, 2020, 10:52:55 PM
Eat out dine out in the middle of a pandemic
Ignoring the rules that were applied by the government (CUMMINGS)
Telling everyone to get back out to work (Boris)
Closing bars at 1030

Madness

All those things are doable if people behave. And people do seem to behave in other parts of the world. We've a large fairly stupid percentage of the population in this part of Europe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kernan_is_King on October 03, 2020, 11:13:45 PM
Listen lads, its a game of inches, in football get a couple of inches closer and in these times stand back a few inches and don't be a bollocks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 04, 2020, 12:06:03 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 03, 2020, 09:35:23 PM
the alt right is now everywhere in ireland seems like ireland maybe in some sort of cold civil war and the so called republicans have let the alr right get a hold in ireland
I suspect this floot is a "sleeper" from one of the neo Nazi 0.8%.
His daft comments on GAA matters and the pseudonym would suggest he's not  Irish.
Perhaps mods it's time to disable this account.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 10:03:09 AM
Who's paying wages when they lockdown for 3 weeks? There's no furlough after October
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 04, 2020, 10:24:33 AM
Brilliant post RadioGAAGAA. Couldn't put it better myself. Apart from number 8. Can't see the government giving in to the schools closing. Sure Glynn himself even said as much himself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 04, 2020, 03:04:55 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 03, 2020, 10:50:17 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 02:01:03 PM
There will be more deaths than we currently have irregardless of the strategy ahead. What do you propose we do then?

A continued series of lockdowns isn't going to be acceptable to people for another 18 months in my opinion. There's already significant push back against the government. How else could you explain the opening of pubs whilst we're facing in to an explosive 2nd wave of infection.

A continued series of lockdowns is going to be what you get. People will just have to get over themselves.


In terms of what could be done different, there are many things. But first, the govts must realise that there is no cheap fix.

Given where we are at the moment, the below is a non exhaustive list of what can be done:
1. All secondary schools are shut and education worked remotely. Secondary school kids do not need parents at home to babysit them.
2. Primary schools can use secondary school facilities to reduce class densities. If education budgets need to swell to employ thousands of additional teaching/support staff on a temp contract, so be it.
3. Pubs/Bars are closed. End of discussion. The govt can service any loan/rent/wage etc as long as there is evidence of it being in place before covid.
4. Table distances in restaurants are upped to 3m as walking past many of them daily, they clearly cannot understand what distancing means. Surprise inspections that don't adhere means loss of licence.
5. Availability of testing, encompassing both criteria for getting a test and the existence of local test sites, needs dramatic improvement.
6. Govt funded ramping up of food delivery services - i.e. delivery service operated for free from a local supermarket.
7. Start filtering uni students through testing & isolation centres, negative tests are sent home, positive are quarantined, all are isolated from test starting to test result returned.
8. Despite 1 & 2, I expect primary schools will have to shut again. The dept of education needs to make a common online learning system that can be used by all kids. If they haven't been, why the f**k not?
9. All office based businesses have until start of Nov to get in place work from home arrangements. No exceptions. If their IT infrastructure is that shi! - then its a tough lesson for the f**kwit(s) in charge.
10.  Airports are shut. Seaports are restricted to cargo only.

Where's the benefit in closing seaports, airports whilst the border with NI remains open? Derry City/Donegal currently poisoning each other with Covid currently.
I'll look forward to how you get the pubs to close. They're only open and your going to try and close them again.

Who's going to police all these restrictions? It was larger done on the goodwill of the population the 1st time around. Against the tide how are the guards going to police all these extra protocols?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on October 04, 2020, 03:13:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 03, 2020, 10:50:17 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 01, 2020, 02:01:03 PM
There will be more deaths than we currently have irregardless of the strategy ahead. What do you propose we do then?

A continued series of lockdowns isn't going to be acceptable to people for another 18 months in my opinion. There's already significant push back against the government. How else could you explain the opening of pubs whilst we're facing in to an explosive 2nd wave of infection.

A continued series of lockdowns is going to be what you get. People will just have to get over themselves.


In terms of what could be done different, there are many things. But first, the govts must realise that there is no cheap fix.

Given where we are at the moment, the below is a non exhaustive list of what can be done:
1. All secondary schools are shut and education worked remotely. Secondary school kids do not need parents at home to babysit them.
2. Primary schools can use secondary school facilities to reduce class densities. If education budgets need to swell to employ thousands of additional teaching/support staff on a temp contract, so be it.
3. Pubs/Bars are closed. End of discussion. The govt can service any loan/rent/wage etc as long as there is evidence of it being in place before covid.
4. Table distances in restaurants are upped to 3m as walking past many of them daily, they clearly cannot understand what distancing means. Surprise inspections that don't adhere means loss of licence.
5. Availability of testing, encompassing both criteria for getting a test and the existence of local test sites, needs dramatic improvement.
6. Govt funded ramping up of food delivery services - i.e. delivery service operated for free from a local supermarket.
7. Start filtering uni students through testing & isolation centres, negative tests are sent home, positive are quarantined, all are isolated from test starting to test result returned.
8. Despite 1 & 2, I expect primary schools will have to shut again. The dept of education needs to make a common online learning system that can be used by all kids. If they haven't been, why the f**k not?
9. All office based businesses have until start of Nov to get in place work from home arrangements. No exceptions. If their IT infrastructure is that shi! - then its a tough lesson for the f**kwit(s) in charge.
10.  Airports are shut. Seaports are restricted to cargo only.

Might sound good practical but that's nonsense - would be a logistical nightmare.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 04:29:00 PM
So just keep doing what we are currently doing?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 04, 2020, 05:49:30 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1004/1169350-northern-ireland-virus/

The latest figures show that the infection rate in Derry City and Strabane has increased to 485.2 per 100,000 of the population.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 04, 2020, 07:15:40 PM
Weekly numbers for the ROI, getting worse not better.

Cases  3,071 (987 more than last week)

Reported deaths 17 ( 8 of them happened before September)

Its the highest weekly number of cases since April 20th to 26th when it was 4,011 that week. (hopefully that number isn't topped that by next Sunday)

Back in April 26th we had 770 in hospital and 120 in ICU

Today its 134 in Hospital and 21 in ICU.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 04, 2020, 08:47:50 PM
Level 5 for the whole of the ROI recommended by NHPET
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 04, 2020, 08:49:54 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 04, 2020, 08:47:50 PM
Level 5 for the whole of the ROI recommended by NHPET

What does level 5 entail?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on October 04, 2020, 08:50:27 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 04, 2020, 08:49:54 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 04, 2020, 08:47:50 PM
Level 5 for the whole of the ROI recommended by NHPET

What does level 5 entail?
Complete lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 04, 2020, 08:59:10 PM
Would NHPET not be better releasing this recommendation in tandem with a financial plan?

Surely the first question on everyone's lips will be "and where do we get money from if we can't go to work?".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 04, 2020, 09:07:49 PM
Quote from: laoislad on October 04, 2020, 08:50:27 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 04, 2020, 08:49:54 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 04, 2020, 08:47:50 PM
Level 5 for the whole of the ROI recommended by NHPET

What does level 5 entail?
Complete lockdown.

Apart from schools.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 04, 2020, 09:11:49 PM
No they wouldn't? (Bar you would assume essential services)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 04, 2020, 09:20:16 PM
Yeah I would agree. Surely if you go full lockdown schools have to stop too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on October 04, 2020, 09:23:26 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 04, 2020, 09:20:16 PM
Yeah I would agree. Surely if you go full lockdown schools have to stop too.
According to this schools stay open.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2dc71-level-5/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 09:25:44 PM
Who's paying for it? If we close business's down then who'll pay the mortgage or food bills?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 04, 2020, 09:26:03 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 04, 2020, 09:18:19 PM
What is the point in closing workplaces where social distancing can be adhered to while keeping schools open where it has been abandoned?

That doesn't make any sense to me. If schools are open, people can go to work.

They read this board and take Bunker's opinion into consideration.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 09:38:23 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 04, 2020, 09:29:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 09:25:44 PM
Who's paying for it? If we close business's down then who'll pay the mortgage or food bills?
You just go skint and be happy that you are Covid free. All the while your young lad comes in from school everyday where he has been sitting cheek by jowl with maybe 100 others.

And my wife will bring it back! I've one job to do in the house, so if I've a 3 week break I'll get it done!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 04, 2020, 09:40:16 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 04, 2020, 09:29:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 09:25:44 PM
Who's paying for it? If we close business's down then who'll pay the mortgage or food bills?
You just go skint and be happy that you are Covid free. All the while your young lad comes in from school everyday where he has been sitting cheek by jowl with maybe 100 others.

It would seem to make sense to put second level schools on a 50/50 model in the event of a major closure of business.
The government could employ 100,000 contact tracers and hunt down this virus for once for all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on October 04, 2020, 09:47:59 PM
Was expecting a few counties to go into level 3 and 4 from next week but level 5 for all is out of the blue. NPHET must be focusing on their modeling system again and looking at what might happen if this action isn't taken?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on October 04, 2020, 09:49:40 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 04, 2020, 08:59:10 PM
Would NHPET not be better releasing this recommendation in tandem with a financial plan?

Surely the first question on everyone's lips will be "and where do we get money from if we can't go to work?".

I think this crowd have lost the plot. Firstly, should they not be presenting recommendations to government not the media. Secondly, these guys only concerned with covid and stopping it. Fair enough. But someone (government) needs to balance mental health, cost etc versus lockdown. I'm beginning to wonder has the celebrity of this got to some of these people. Also, are stats not also showing that fatalities are way lower than before? Are we expecting a world with no deaths. Why are no other countries in Europe suggesting this course of action.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 04, 2020, 09:53:43 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 04, 2020, 09:41:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 09:38:23 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 04, 2020, 09:29:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 09:25:44 PM
Who's paying for it? If we close business's down then who'll pay the mortgage or food bills?
You just go skint and be happy that you are Covid free. All the while your young lad comes in from school everyday where he has been sitting cheek by jowl with maybe 100 others.

And my wife will bring it back! I've one job to do in the house, so if I've a 3 week break I'll get it done!
Your wife will be fine as long as she follows the guidelines. She shouldn't be within 2m of her pupils for more than 15 minutes. It takes much longer than that to catch it.

What about the classroom assistants/SNAs such as my wife who work in autism units? Assigned to particular children for the day, different days. I understand where you're coming from with regards the teaching aspect of school, but the special needs children seem to be 'forgotten' about. Or the SNAs have.

Not getting at you in particular hardstation. Just putting it out there as to what they deal with on a daily basis.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 04, 2020, 09:54:50 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 04, 2020, 03:04:55 PM
Where's the benefit in closing seaports, airports whilst the border with NI remains open? Derry City/Donegal currently poisoning each other with Covid currently.

I'm sure it hasn't escaped you that we are an island. Any measures proposed need to be applied on an island basis.

Quote from: trileacman on October 04, 2020, 03:04:55 PM
I'll look forward to how you get the pubs to close. They're only open and your going to try and close them again.

I'm saying what can be done to limit spread. Not talking about how its implemented. IMO they should never have re-opened.

If the govt is having difficulty policing, then stopping brewers from producing kegs and mandating that deliveries can only be made to off-licenses would go a long way to stopping pubs. No beer = no reason to open. Easier to police a few dozen breweries than hundreds of pubs.


Quote from: trileacman on October 04, 2020, 03:04:55 PM
Who's going to police all these restrictions? It was larger done on the goodwill of the population the 1st time around. Against the tide how are the guards going to police all these extra protocols?

3, 4, & 9 are the only measures that would need significant policing resource.

I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for the govt to divert a few useless civil servants from their "count the moon" department to go around looking for offenders. F88k, they could even divert the parking attendants to do it. Photo with tape measure and the restaurant gets a closure notice.

Others can dander around the business parks across the country - if an office is open - why? If they don't get remote working up and going, then the govt should obligate their electricity supplier to cut power. No electric = no work. Their call.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 04, 2020, 09:57:57 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 04, 2020, 03:13:20 PM
Might sound good practical but that's nonsense - would be a logistical nightmare.

Course it is! Yet, its still less of a logistical nightmare than shutting down everything again.


If the Education Authority had a few good people instead of brimming with utter incompetents, they'd already have common resources that everyone uses - thus it'd be a lot more straightforward (yet still incredibly difficult) to accomplish this.


Their "guidelines" are an utter embarrassment. Anyone involved in drawing them up should be dismissed and banned from public sector employment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 04, 2020, 09:59:26 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 04, 2020, 09:57:45 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 04, 2020, 09:53:43 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 04, 2020, 09:41:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 09:38:23 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 04, 2020, 09:29:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 09:25:44 PM
Who's paying for it? If we close business's down then who'll pay the mortgage or food bills?
You just go skint and be happy that you are Covid free. All the while your young lad comes in from school everyday where he has been sitting cheek by jowl with maybe 100 others.

And my wife will bring it back! I've one job to do in the house, so if I've a 3 week break I'll get it done!
Your wife will be fine as long as she follows the guidelines. She shouldn't be within 2m of her pupils for more than 15 minutes. It takes much longer than that to catch it.

What about the classroom assistants/SNAs such as my wife who work in autism units? Assigned to particular children for the day, different days. I understand where you're coming from with regards the teaching aspect of school, but the special needs children seem to be 'forgotten' about. Or the SNAs have.

Not getting at you in particular hardstation. Just putting it out there as to what they deal with on a daily basis.

Apologies, I was being ironic. The school setting for all staff & pupils is chancy as fcuk imo.

No problem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 04, 2020, 10:35:23 PM
Complete fixation on one problem (yes it's a major problem) & let everything else go to pot. Healthcare in this country is at an all time low, people are dying and will die for the want of diagnosis & treatment of illnesses unrelated to covid ie cancers, sepsis, heart disease, mental health etc.
Economic activity, people are losing livelihoods and self esteem that goes with that, not everybody has a handy public sector number.
In the north west of our island the numbers increased primarily due to communion parties & trafficking of poor unfortunate women for prostitution.
The country doesn't need a lockdown its needs people to cop on. Do the basic Nephet recommendations. The whole nature of human trafficking needs to be looked at urgently by the cops, it's a human tragedy satisfying a disgusting market.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 04, 2020, 10:51:10 PM
The reason we're all heading for a lockdown is precisely that: people didn't cop on.

So, suck it up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 10:54:41 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 04, 2020, 10:51:10 PM
The reason we're all heading for a lockdown is precisely that: people didn't cop on.

So, suck it up.

Why should I lose out cause of the stupid Cnuts out there?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 04, 2020, 10:55:47 PM
you could argue that people will suffer mental health issues if there loved ones die
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 04, 2020, 10:56:26 PM
cant go level 5 if northern ireland does not do same
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 04, 2020, 11:00:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 10:54:41 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 04, 2020, 10:51:10 PM
The reason we're all heading for a lockdown is precisely that: people didn't cop on.

So, suck it up.

Why should I lose out cause of the stupid Cnuts out there?

We're all losing out, MR.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 04, 2020, 11:01:04 PM
its not total lockdown you can exercise 2km from home or something.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 11:09:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 04, 2020, 11:00:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 10:54:41 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 04, 2020, 10:51:10 PM
The reason we're all heading for a lockdown is precisely that: people didn't cop on.

So, suck it up.

Why should I lose out cause of the stupid Cnuts out there?

We're all losing out, MR.

So I'll ask again, why should I lose out? I'm following guidelines. Who's going to pay my wages?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 11:13:09 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 04, 2020, 11:11:56 PM
Have you lost your wages?

If there is a lockdown and no furloughed pay yes I'll lose wages.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on October 04, 2020, 11:15:13 PM
Eire why can't we lockdown if the wee 6 dont?

What did the last lockdown achieve? Before anyone says it saved lives prove it?

Lockdown for a month reopen and cases will be up again by the end of November

And repeat
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 11:16:55 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 04, 2020, 11:14:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 11:13:09 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 04, 2020, 11:11:56 PM
Have you lost your wages?

If there is a lockdown and no furloughed pay yes I'll lose wages.
So, no. You're getting ahead of yourself.

I am but I can see that happening, and because of other people's attitude I might lose out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on October 04, 2020, 11:18:35 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 04, 2020, 11:14:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 11:13:09 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 04, 2020, 11:11:56 PM
Have you lost your wages?

If there is a lockdown and no furloughed pay yes I'll lose wages.
So, no. You're getting ahead of yourself. Although, you look likely to lose the referee wages. ;D
Do you know something that the rest of us don't? Is the furlough scheme not ending at the end of the month? I think MR2 is right to take offence at people using terms like suck it up when people's livelihoods are at stake
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 04, 2020, 11:21:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 11:09:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 04, 2020, 11:00:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 10:54:41 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 04, 2020, 10:51:10 PM
The reason we're all heading for a lockdown is precisely that: people didn't cop on.

So, suck it up.

Why should I lose out cause of the stupid Cnuts out there?

We're all losing out, MR.

So I'll ask again, why should I lose out? I'm following guidelines. Who's going to pay my wages?

I'm following them too. But thousands aren't. But what's the alternative? Open everything up and allow people to do anything they want?

The government should pay wages because it's their failures to put in proper powers in place to help control this. Everyone could see weeks and weeks ago that many people didn't give a f**k and were following no guidelines.

"Ah come on now lads, don't be doing that now" talk was never going to work.Heavy, on the spot fines for breach of rules needed to be introduced but they weren't. Now look where we are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 04, 2020, 11:22:56 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on October 04, 2020, 11:15:13 PM
What did the last lockdown achieve? Before anyone says it saved lives prove it?

I'm not sure what evidence could be produced that would ever satisfy you.


Quote from: Smurfy123 on October 04, 2020, 11:15:13 PMLockdown for a month reopen and cases will be up again by the end of November
And repeat

If there is no lockdown, eventually you reach a point where there are no ICU beds left and case mortality rates jump toward the kind of levels seen in Italy earlier in the year.

The governments have no real alternative - that must be prevented at all costs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 11:25:18 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 04, 2020, 11:20:15 PM
Quote from: mackers on October 04, 2020, 11:18:35 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 04, 2020, 11:14:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 11:13:09 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 04, 2020, 11:11:56 PM
Have you lost your wages?

If there is a lockdown and no furloughed pay yes I'll lose wages.
So, no. You're getting ahead of yourself. Although, you look likely to lose the referee wages. ;D
Do you know something that the rest of us don't? Is the furlough scheme not ending at the end of the month? I think MR2 is right to take offence at people using terms like suck it up when people's livelihoods are at stake
He doesn't know he will be out of work yet, let alone what the gov plan is if he happens to be. It's ironic that you are asking me if I know something you don't.

The medical advisor in the north has mentioned a circuit breaker . He never mentioned what the government may do or not. My issue is why should I lose out for other people not following the rules? If that is there is another lockdown?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 04, 2020, 11:31:01 PM
So whats all the fuss about? Have many people died the last couple of weeks? What is an acceptable number of Deaths? Are we ever going to live life again? Is this all really worth it all these lock-downs/restrictions? Are we just going to live in this madness for the foreseeable future? What sort of life is this living in fear? I'd rather be dead!

Get busy living or get busy dying!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 11:33:29 PM
Not at the minute no. This is purely hypothetical of course.

I'm sure with the way the government here has dealt with this problem so far I'll be fine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 12:35:39 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 04, 2020, 11:31:01 PM
So whats all the fuss about? Have many people died the last couple of weeks? What is an acceptable number of Deaths? Are we ever going to live life again? Is this all really worth it all these lock-downs/restrictions? Are we just going to live in this madness for the foreseeable future? What sort of life is this living in fear? I'd rather be dead!

Get busy living or get busy dying!
I'd much rather be alive and the vast majority of people think likewise
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 05, 2020, 12:40:53 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 12:35:39 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 04, 2020, 11:31:01 PM
So whats all the fuss about? Have many people died the last couple of weeks? What is an acceptable number of Deaths? Are we ever going to live life again? Is this all really worth it all these lock-downs/restrictions? Are we just going to live in this madness for the foreseeable future? What sort of life is this living in fear? I'd rather be dead!

Get busy living or get busy dying!
I'd much rather be alive and the vast majority of people think likewise

That's what you think!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 05, 2020, 01:22:57 AM
what about introverts do there lives not matter are you saying only extroverts should be valued if your not some sort of gaa extrovert your life does not matter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 05, 2020, 01:57:19 AM
People can choose to live if they want, what they cannot do is be allowed choose a course of action that will kill other people.
There is a balance here of course, but rapidly increasing numbers shows that many people have not behaved in a balanced way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 05, 2020, 02:15:59 AM
Disgraceful scenes in cork and a lot old fellas there too what a joke i bet they will come up with some nonsense about how the euphoria took over.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 05, 2020, 04:59:13 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 04, 2020, 11:21:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 11:09:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 04, 2020, 11:00:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2020, 10:54:41 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 04, 2020, 10:51:10 PM
The reason we're all heading for a lockdown is precisely that: people didn't cop on.

So, suck it up.

Why should I lose out cause of the stupid Cnuts out there?

We're all losing out, MR.

So I'll ask again, why should I lose out? I'm following guidelines. Who's going to pay my wages?

I'm following them too. But thousands aren't. But what's the alternative? Open everything up and allow people to do anything they want?

The government should pay wages because it's their failures to put in proper powers in place to help control this. Everyone could see weeks and weeks ago that many people didn't give a f**k and were following no guidelines.

"Ah come on now lads, don't be doing that now" talk was never going to work.Heavy, on the spot fines for breach of rules needed to be introduced but they weren't. Now look where we are.

Yup. There was a rumour going around before the first lockdown that the army would be on the streets enforcing it. That didn't happen. Maybe it should have. Maybe it'll have to. Against my better judgment I read the social media comments on Irish news outlets and the amount of covid-denial and tinfoil-hat BS out there is scary. People have not taken this seriously enough and there's a time bomb of death ticking away as we speak.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tonto1888 on October 05, 2020, 06:27:51 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 04, 2020, 11:31:01 PM
So whats all the fuss about? Have many people died the last couple of weeks? What is an acceptable number of Deaths? Are we ever going to live life again? Is this all really worth it all these lock-downs/restrictions? Are we just going to live in this madness for the foreseeable future? What sort of life is this living in fear? I'd rather be dead!

Get busy living or get busy dying!

What a stupid thing to say
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 07:07:45 AM
It's a shawshank quote but point still valid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 07:16:50 AM
I do think the Gaa pretty much needs stopped. The gatherings happening of the back of it are causing big issues. That's not anti Gaa like some people, perversely, on a Gaa forum seem to be. It's a community etc thing where people get carried away, you can't blame them, but it's just leading to too many gatherings outside the sport. It is causing cases and probably massive knock on effects too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on October 05, 2020, 08:22:41 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 07:16:50 AM
I do think the Gaa pretty much needs stopped. The gatherings happening of the back of it are causing big issues. That's not anti Gaa like some people, perversely, on a Gaa forum seem to be. It's a community etc thing where people get carried away, you can't blame them, but it's just leading to too many gatherings outside the sport. It is causing cases and probably massive knock on effects too.

Its actually the C'ship games that are causing the problems.

If we had run league games only then you wouldnt have had this euphoria/celebrations etc.

Thats no excuse for the way people are behaving
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 08:25:06 AM
Agreed. I imagine you could trace a lot of numbers back to celebrations etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 05, 2020, 08:50:50 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 05, 2020, 12:40:53 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 12:35:39 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 04, 2020, 11:31:01 PM
So whats all the fuss about? Have many people died the last couple of weeks? What is an acceptable number of Deaths? Are we ever going to live life again? Is this all really worth it all these lock-downs/restrictions? Are we just going to live in this madness for the foreseeable future? What sort of life is this living in fear? I'd rather be dead!

Get busy living or get busy dying!
I'd much rather be alive and the vast majority of people think likewise

That's what you think!

Go on then, prove him wrong. ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 05, 2020, 10:15:50 AM
This talk of a circuit breaker is still more nonsense from the Government.

Curb movement for what, a week? (And that in itself will hardly work because as previous posts, it punishes some, irrelevant completely to others). The track and trace app has been a complete failure, the fact we haven't heard about it from the opening fanfare says it all.

The only way out of it, is what they are doing in East Asia. Complete mass testing for the population. I've said it before and I'll say it again. They have no interest in doing it in the West and I still struggle to understand why. It's much more simple than this talk of closing down airports, stopping GAA, schools etc. At least if you undergo mass testing, you can actually start to undergo a relatively accurate track and trace programme.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 10:46:33 AM
Yeah agreed. You go into complete lockdown for a number of weeks you won't eradicate it and then you will move out of lockdown and it will come back again and you will go into complete lockdown - repeat at infinitum.

There needs to be a change of thinking and something like that is it. Currently there doesn't seem to be a plan for how to get out of anything other than draconian measures.

There is personal responsibility to be taken but there are also serious questions on governments on this island and on the rest of the UK. You have people imposing lockdowns and then not adhering to them. That is no example to set to anyone.

Really IMO another complete lockdown with absolutely no plan of what to do at the end of it is a huge mistake.If zero covid were achievable here it would be a great plan but the question is is it and are the track and trace options and mass testing a better option. If they are and we go to complete lockdown until the tests are in place then you would have to say fair enough but currently if we go to full lockdown then it is just with a view of lowering things for a few weeks and then it will repeat.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 05, 2020, 10:49:43 AM
The speculation on the move to Level 5 is a bit odd when you consider only on Thursday NPHET said the situation did not support a nationwide move to Level 3. Maybe a bit of clarity will brought forward at this evenings press conference.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 10:56:42 AM
A functioning test and trace system and a functioning national public health service with loads of capacity would be great

But when you put your faith in right wing politics and market ideology over many decades, you won't get those things, you'll get a cut in capital gains tax though

Chickens coming home to roost

So that means there's little option but to do what Neffit propose



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 05, 2020, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 07:16:50 AM
I do think the Gaa pretty much needs stopped. The gatherings happening of the back of it are causing big issues. That's not anti Gaa like some people, perversely, on a Gaa forum seem to be. It's a community etc thing where people get carried away, you can't blame them, but it's just leading to too many gatherings outside the sport. It is causing cases and probably massive knock on effects too.

The GAA has not attempted to provide good example, every website, Facebook page and twitter feed is full of team pictures with no distance whatsoever, people hugging each other and similar carry on. The view seems to be that for these particular things that there is no need to worry about Covid, but the problem is that across society people are exempting what they want to do from the rules. All of this was predictable but little was done to head it off, the GAA singularly failed here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 11:09:39 AM
Yeah in reality you can't really argue with any of that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 05, 2020, 11:10:05 AM
Sadly true Armaghniac :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 05, 2020, 11:11:35 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 05, 2020, 10:49:43 AM
The speculation on the move to Level 5 is a bit odd when you consider only on Thursday NPHET said the situation did not support a nationwide move to Level 3. Maybe a bit of clarity will brought forward at this evenings press conference.

I also believe some of involved in this pandemic are using it to boost their profile for later on. I would hope not, but there is something telling me these names that are involved and involved very publicly are doing so for reasons, not entirely 'for the good of the people'. Just a little thing I get with some. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 05, 2020, 11:20:42 AM
a level 5 in the republic can only work really if northern ireland does the same otherwise people will cross the border or they need to put checkpoints at  borders and tell people to go home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 11:26:21 AM
Michelle O'Neill has basically said this too. 100% true. It's much worse up north too in terms of per capita etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: StephenC on October 05, 2020, 11:27:29 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 05, 2020, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 07:16:50 AM
I do think the Gaa pretty much needs stopped. The gatherings happening of the back of it are causing big issues. That's not anti Gaa like some people, perversely, on a Gaa forum seem to be. It's a community etc thing where people get carried away, you can't blame them, but it's just leading to too many gatherings outside the sport. It is causing cases and probably massive knock on effects too.

The GAA has not attempted to provide good example, every website, Facebook page and twitter feed is full of team pictures with no distance whatsoever, people hugging each other and similar carry on. The view seems to be that for these particular things that there is no need to worry about Covid, but the problem is that across society people are exempting what they want to do from the rules. All of this was predictable but little was done to head it off, the GAA singularly failed here.

I would have railed at this description a few weeks ago but can now only agree. We've tried to do our bit as a club but it's come to the point where the only way to address this is to shut the whole thing down for a while.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 05, 2020, 11:32:18 AM
I would agree that it's time to shut the whole thing down. There's no need for inter-community migrations of any sort against the current backdrop.

BUT anyone blaming the GAA for how club members choose to celebrate, needs to catch themselves on. They can't send a bunch of woolly faces across the country to disperse celebrations by any means necessary. This one is outside their remit.

The only way to prevent this would have been to kill championship for the entire season, thereby mitigating the potential for celebration.

Tell me, honestly, who would have voted for such a measure back in May/June?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 05, 2020, 11:45:38 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2020, 11:32:18 AM
I would agree that it's time to shut the whole thing down. There's no need for inter-community migrations of any sort against the current backdrop.

BUT anyone blaming the GAA for how club members choose to celebrate, needs to catch themselves on. They can't send a bunch of woolly faces across the country to disperse celebrations by any means necessary. This one is outside their remit.

The only way to prevent this would have been to kill championship for the entire season, thereby mitigating the potential for celebration.

Tell me, honestly, who would have voted for such a measure back in May/June?

The GAA can't control people outside its premises, but it can ensure that the team do not carry a cup through these crowds. I think celebrations could have been orchestrated to a greater extent, some of this is simply an unwillingness to propose a different model of doing things.
Lilke all these things, it isn't necessarily a question of stopping things, but of the detail of doing them right.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on October 05, 2020, 12:04:05 PM
QuoteI also believe some of involved in this pandemic are using it to boost their profile for later on. I would hope not, but there is something telling me these names that are involved and involved very publicly are doing so for reasons, not entirely 'for the good of the people'. Just a little thing I get with some.

When is the next presidential election?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 05, 2020, 12:09:57 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 05, 2020, 12:04:05 PM
QuoteI also believe some of involved in this pandemic are using it to boost their profile for later on. I would hope not, but there is something telling me these names that are involved and involved very publicly are doing so for reasons, not entirely 'for the good of the people'. Just a little thing I get with some.

2025 as far as I know. That's if the restrictions are lifted by then!

When is the next presidential election?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 05, 2020, 12:38:41 PM
Theres an epidemic of facebook experts and they are being glorified within the community.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 05, 2020, 01:51:55 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 05, 2020, 11:11:35 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 05, 2020, 10:49:43 AM
The speculation on the move to Level 5 is a bit odd when you consider only on Thursday NPHET said the situation did not support a nationwide move to Level 3. Maybe a bit of clarity will brought forward at this evenings press conference.

I also believe some of involved in this pandemic are using it to boost their profile for later on. I would hope not, but there is something telling me these names that are involved and involved very publicly are doing so for reasons, not entirely 'for the good of the people'. Just a little thing I get with some.

Yep.

https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora
https://twitter.com/carlheneghan
https://dolorescahill.com/

Amazing the attention and adulation being a contrary cnut can offer when compared to a lifetime of underwhelming scientific endeavour.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 05, 2020, 02:25:18 PM
616 new cases of #covid19 in N. Ireland.

Previous Mondays

Sept 28th:    +220
Sept 21st:    +125
Sept 14th:   +109
Sept 7th:     +141
Aug 31st:     +58
Aug 24th:    +10
Aug 17th:    +39
Aug 10th:    +76

Seven day rate per 100,000
NI Average: 192.9

Derry & Strabane: 533.6
Newry, M & Down: 321.3
Belfast: 241.2
Mid Ulster: 185.7
Antrim & Newtownabbey:117.1
Lisburn & Castlereagh: 116.4
Armagh, B & Craigavon: 116.1
Fermanagh & Omagh: 115.6


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 02:25:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 11:26:21 AM
Michelle O'Neill has basically said this too. 100% true. It's much worse up north too in terms of per capita etc.

nobody listens to her anymore, she is more interested in using the pandemic to score political points. the funeral was the end of her credibility
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 05, 2020, 02:44:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 05, 2020, 02:25:18 PM
616 new cases of #covid19 in N. Ireland.

Previous Mondays

Sept 28th:    +220
Sept 21st:    +125
Sept 14th:   +109
Sept 7th:     +141
Aug 31st:     +58
Aug 24th:    +10
Aug 17th:    +39
Aug 10th:    +76

Seven day rate per 100,000
NI Average: 192.9

Derry & Strabane: 533.6
Newry, M & Down: 321.3
Belfast: 241.2
Mid Ulster: 185.7
Antrim & Newtownabbey:117.1
Lisburn & Castlereagh: 116.4
Armagh, B & Craigavon: 116.1
Fermanagh & Omagh: 115.6

Level 4 category there. What is the hospital numbers?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on October 05, 2020, 02:51:36 PM
Almost hope for Level 5 just to allow that bitter **** Ewan MacKenna more rope to hang himself with.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 02:53:51 PM
That's missing causeway is it or it incorporated in one of the other areas?

There's 12 in total in the north in ICU and 64 in the inpatients. I dunno if that means 64 in total - I would assume 76 in total and inpatients and ICU are completely separate things.

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9 (https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 03:04:11 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 05, 2020, 02:39:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 02:25:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 11:26:21 AM
Michelle O'Neill has basically said this too. 100% true. It's much worse up north too in terms of per capita etc.

nobody listens to her anymore, she is more interested in using the pandemic to score political points. the funeral was the end of her credibility
That would be foolish because she may still make valid points. This one in particular is one.

Yeah it is pity.
It is what it is. Rife here in Derry. The bars have been rammed, house parties have been common and some workplaces not taking proper precautions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 05, 2020, 03:17:08 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 02:53:51 PM
That's missing causeway is it or it incorporated in one of the other areas?

There's 12 in total in the north in ICU and 64 in the inpatients. I dunno if that means 64 in total - I would assume 76 in total and inpatients and ICU are completely separate things.

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9 (https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9)

It wouldn't surprise me if a significant number were admitted to hospital today, not being absolutely critical at that point they would not have gone in on Sunday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on October 05, 2020, 03:34:42 PM
31 outbreaks in nursing homes, we are back to square 1.

It's not fair on older people when some of the same HSE staff that are carrying out the swab tests are also doing home help to our elders in the evenings.

That's a risky use of staff by the HSE.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 05, 2020, 03:35:26 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 03:04:11 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 05, 2020, 02:39:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 02:25:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 11:26:21 AM
Michelle O'Neill has basically said this too. 100% true. It's much worse up north too in terms of per capita etc.

nobody listens to her anymore, she is more interested in using the pandemic to score political points. the funeral was the end of her credibility
That would be foolish because she may still make valid points. This one in particular is one.

Yeah it is pity.
It is what it is. Rife here in Derry. The bars have been rammed, house parties have been common and some workplaces not taking proper precautions.

Would listen to Michelle before binlids like Anne McCloskey.. A dangerous woman to heed during a pandemic, pity many Derry people are
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on October 05, 2020, 03:35:40 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 05, 2020, 02:51:36 PM
Almost hope for Level 5 just to allow that bitter **** Ewan MacKenna more rope to hang himself with.
And him in Portugal too
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on October 05, 2020, 03:35:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 05, 2020, 02:25:18 PM
616 new cases of #covid19 in N. Ireland.

Previous Mondays

Sept 28th:    +220
Sept 21st:    +125
Sept 14th:   +109
Sept 7th:     +141
Aug 31st:     +58
Aug 24th:    +10
Aug 17th:    +39
Aug 10th:    +76

Seven day rate per 100,000
NI Average: 192.9

Derry & Strabane: 533.6
Newry, M & Down: 321.3
Belfast: 241.2
Mid Ulster: 185.7
Antrim & Newtownabbey:117.1
Lisburn & Castlereagh: 116.4
Armagh, B & Craigavon: 116.1
Fermanagh & Omagh: 115.6

Hospital Inpatients

05/10/20   64
28/09/20   82
21/09/20   59
14/09/20   57
07/09/20   44
31/08/20   51

Are case numbers comparable? Has testing (at the current level) been constant for long enough to use as a barometer.

Surely it is hospitalisations and deaths which are the best comparisons? In the '1st wave' we have no idea how many cases there were.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 05, 2020, 03:37:26 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 02:53:51 PM
That's missing causeway is it or it incorporated in one of the other areas?

There's 12 in total in the north in ICU and 64 in the inpatients. I dunno if that means 64 in total - I would assume 76 in total and inpatients and ICU are completely separate things.

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9 (https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9)

12 in ICU with COVID today.
Double the number from last Monday.
Six times the number from 3 Mondays ago.

Clear and scary trend here. Just 20 free beds, at the current rate these will be filled within the fortnight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 05, 2020, 03:38:06 PM
There's two ways of looking at it. We are 7/8 months into this now, messaging from governments on both sides of the border has been poor, people are getting frustrated and agitated about how slow moving things are. Science looks every bit as clueless as they did at the start, they have yet to establish any real definitive idea on how our immunity is to it, how it is spread, what % of people are asymptomatic.

Governments have reacted poorly, we are now in the second wave and how have we improved in hospital capacity, testing and other resources from the start?

At the end of the day, there is one metric that will judge Covid, deaths. And at the minute the while the cases seem to be on the rise, deaths don't seem to be following that trend. That is probably in large down to the fact it's a younger/healthier demographic picking it up. Can you blame youngsters, we all look back at our youth and the freedom with it, we never had to live those years in a pandemic. After 7 or 8 months they are now saying screw it, it's not good but you can understand it.

The real issue is that science is being shown up here, it is chasing its tail around the place and still unable to give clear answers on basic aspects of the virus - immunity, anitbodies, % of asymptomatic etc.

When it turns out that the smartest kid in the class is a dunce then we are in trouble.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 05, 2020, 03:52:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 05, 2020, 03:38:06 PM
There's two ways of looking at it. We are 7/8 months into this now, messaging from governments on both sides of the border has been poor, people are getting frustrated and agitated about how slow moving things are. Science looks every bit as clueless as they did at the start, they have yet to establish any real definitive idea on how our immunity is to it, how it is spread, what % of people are asymptomatic.

Governments have reacted poorly, we are now in the second wave and how have we improved in hospital capacity, testing and other resources from the start?

At the end of the day, there is one metric that will judge Covid, deaths. And at the minute the while the cases seem to be on the rise, deaths don't seem to be following that trend. That is probably in large down to the fact it's a younger/healthier demographic picking it up. Can you blame youngsters, we all look back at our youth and the freedom with it, we never had to live those years in a pandemic. After 7 or 8 months they are now saying screw it, it's not good but you can understand it.

The real issue is that science is being shown up here, it is chasing its tail around the place and still unable to give clear answers on basic aspects of the virus - immunity, anitbodies, % of asymptomatic etc.

When it turns out that the smartest kid in the class is a dunce then we are in trouble.

There are decent answers to all these questions if you could be bothered look for them.

You'll be waiting a while for your definitive answers, though. That's not really how it works.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 03:56:12 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 05, 2020, 03:35:26 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 03:04:11 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 05, 2020, 02:39:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 02:25:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 11:26:21 AM
Michelle O'Neill has basically said this too. 100% true. It's much worse up north too in terms of per capita etc.

nobody listens to her anymore, she is more interested in using the pandemic to score political points. the funeral was the end of her credibility
That would be foolish because she may still make valid points. This one in particular is one.

Yeah it is pity.
It is what it is. Rife here in Derry. The bars have been rammed, house parties have been common and some workplaces not taking proper precautions.

Would listen to Michelle before binlids like Anne McCloskey.. A dangerous woman to heed during a pandemic, pity many Derry people are

I voted Aontú and will continue to as Anne is on a serious solo run here.
But as someone who has covid here atm I know exactly what is spreading the virus and its not Anne telling people they shouldn't be wearing masks in shops.
The 3 big clusters I know of occurred in parties and bars which then spread to workplaces. I got it in work.
No party has been calling for masks in bars and manufacturing facilities aren't taking all the precautions they need to. And the bars in Derry(ironically run by SF and SDLP famiiles) have been disgraceful
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 03:56:55 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 05, 2020, 03:37:26 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 02:53:51 PM
That's missing causeway is it or it incorporated in one of the other areas?

There's 12 in total in the north in ICU and 64 in the inpatients. I dunno if that means 64 in total - I would assume 76 in total and inpatients and ICU are completely separate things.

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9 (https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9)

12 in ICU with COVID today.
Double the number from last Monday.
Six times the number from 3 Mondays ago.

Clear and scary trend here. Just 20 free beds, at the current rate these will be filled within the fortnight.

Yeah the reality is that when things start ramping up you wait 2-3 weeks and then you find out the true story so we will really know the true story in 2-3 weeks with regard to deaths etc. Interestingly numbers in tests have reduced in the north since the big spike but they still are big numbers. You would have to imagine some bad stats in a few regards coming in a few weeks and deaths will be up. Hopefully not by very much but only time will tell.

Have you had it(or have it) Fear?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 05, 2020, 03:57:29 PM
Looks like national level 3  no level 5 for now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 04:05:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 03:56:55 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 05, 2020, 03:37:26 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 02:53:51 PM
That's missing causeway is it or it incorporated in one of the other areas?

There's 12 in total in the north in ICU and 64 in the inpatients. I dunno if that means 64 in total - I would assume 76 in total and inpatients and ICU are completely separate things.

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9 (https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9)

12 in ICU with COVID today.
Double the number from last Monday.
Six times the number from 3 Mondays ago.

Clear and scary trend here. Just 20 free beds, at the current rate these will be filled within the fortnight.

Yeah the reality is that when things start ramping up you wait 2-3 weeks and then you find out the true story so we will really know the true story in 2-3 weeks with regard to deaths etc. Interestingly numbers in tests have reduced in the north since the big spike but they still are big numbers. You would have to imagine some bad stats in a few regards coming in a few weeks and deaths will be up. Hopefully not by very much but only time will tell.

Have you had it(or have it) Fear?

Aye as we speak unfortunately
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 04:08:10 PM
Sorry to hear that :(. Hope things go ok for you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 05, 2020, 04:13:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 03:56:12 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 05, 2020, 03:35:26 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 03:04:11 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 05, 2020, 02:39:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 02:25:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 11:26:21 AM
Michelle O'Neill has basically said this too. 100% true. It's much worse up north too in terms of per capita etc.

nobody listens to her anymore, she is more interested in using the pandemic to score political points. the funeral was the end of her credibility
That would be foolish because she may still make valid points. This one in particular is one.

Yeah it is pity.
It is what it is. Rife here in Derry. The bars have been rammed, house parties have been common and some workplaces not taking proper precautions.

Would listen to Michelle before binlids like Anne McCloskey.. A dangerous woman to heed during a pandemic, pity many Derry people are

I voted Aontú and will continue to as Anne is on a serious solo run here.
But as someone who has covid here atm I know exactly what is spreading the virus and its not Anne telling people they shouldn't be wearing masks in shops.
The 3 big clusters I know of occurred in parties and bars which then spread to workplaces. I got it in work.
No party has been calling for masks in bars and manufacturing facilities aren't taking all the precautions they need to. And the bars in Derry(ironically run by SF and SDLP famiiles) have been disgraceful

She's an anti masker, speaks at Anti-mask rallies. A very irresponsible woman. Weather she's your politician or not, you must see this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 04:16:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 04:08:10 PM
Sorry to hear that :(. Hope things go ok for you.

Thanks doing ok, but my mother who on vunerable list tested positive today also.
If I am correct it spread from a house party, that guy came to work, it spread through work and out into families.

If it is of any use to people my symptoms are different from the classics.

Sore legs, ear ache, heart palpitations and extreme fatigue. One night seat, very slight cough.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 04:17:35 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 05, 2020, 04:13:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 03:56:12 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 05, 2020, 03:35:26 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 03:04:11 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 05, 2020, 02:39:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 02:25:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 11:26:21 AM
Michelle O'Neill has basically said this too. 100% true. It's much worse up north too in terms of per capita etc.

nobody listens to her anymore, she is more interested in using the pandemic to score political points. the funeral was the end of her credibility
That would be foolish because she may still make valid points. This one in particular is one.

Yeah it is pity.
It is what it is. Rife here in Derry. The bars have been rammed, house parties have been common and some workplaces not taking proper precautions.

Would listen to Michelle before binlids like Anne McCloskey.. A dangerous woman to heed during a pandemic, pity many Derry people are

I voted Aontú and will continue to as Anne is on a serious solo run here.
But as someone who has covid here atm I know exactly what is spreading the virus and its not Anne telling people they shouldn't be wearing masks in shops.
The 3 big clusters I know of occurred in parties and bars which then spread to workplaces. I got it in work.
No party has been calling for masks in bars and manufacturing facilities aren't taking all the precautions they need to. And the bars in Derry(ironically run by SF and SDLP famiiles) have been disgraceful

She's an anti masker, speaks at Anti-mask rallies. A very irresponsible woman. Weather she's your politician or not, you must see this?

I do. I thought I conveyed that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 05, 2020, 04:18:50 PM
Government to decide on a nationwide level 3 restrictions. Can understand Monaghan, Roscommon going into level 3 but it makes no sense to me why a dozen counties with a low infection rate are moved up to level 3
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 05, 2020, 04:26:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 04:16:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 04:08:10 PM
Sorry to hear that :(. Hope things go ok for you.

Thanks doing ok, but my mother who on vunerable list tested positive today also.
If I am correct it spread from a house party, that guy came to work, it spread through work and out into families.

If it is of any use to people my symptoms are different from the classics.

Sore legs, ear ache, heart palpitations and extreme fatigue. One night seat, very slight cough.

It just shows how one person doing the wrong thing can have worrying consequences for many many people.

Hope you and your mother make a full recovery.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 04:31:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 05, 2020, 04:26:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 04:16:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 04:08:10 PM
Sorry to hear that :(. Hope things go ok for you.

Thanks doing ok, but my mother who on vunerable list tested positive today also.
If I am correct it spread from a house party, that guy came to work, it spread through work and out into families.

If it is of any use to people my symptoms are different from the classics.

Sore legs, ear ache, heart palpitations and extreme fatigue. One night seat, very slight cough.

It just shows how one person doing the wrong thing can have worrying consequences for many many people.

Hope you and your mother make a full recovery.

Thanks Benny
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 05, 2020, 05:24:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 05, 2020, 04:26:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 04:16:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 04:08:10 PM
Sorry to hear that :(. Hope things go ok for you.

Thanks doing ok, but my mother who on vunerable list tested positive today also.
If I am correct it spread from a house party, that guy came to work, it spread through work and out into families.

If it is of any use to people my symptoms are different from the classics.

Sore legs, ear ache, heart palpitations and extreme fatigue. One night seat, very slight cough.

It just shows how one person doing the wrong thing can have worrying consequences for many many people.

Hope you and your mother make a full recovery.

Yes, a full and speedy recovery for the Fears
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 05:28:36 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 05, 2020, 05:24:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 05, 2020, 04:26:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 05, 2020, 04:16:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 05, 2020, 04:08:10 PM
Sorry to hear that :(. Hope things go ok for you.

Thanks doing ok, but my mother who on vunerable list tested positive today also.
If I am correct it spread from a house party, that guy came to work, it spread through work and out into families.

If it is of any use to people my symptoms are different from the classics.

Sore legs, ear ache, heart palpitations and extreme fatigue. One night seat, very slight cough.

It just shows how one person doing the wrong thing can have worrying consequences for many many people.

Hope you and your mother make a full recovery.

Yes, a full and speedy recovery for the Fears

Thanks  a chara
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on October 05, 2020, 05:46:32 PM
All the best to you and yours Fear 👍
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on October 05, 2020, 05:49:42 PM
Hope all goes ok Fear
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ball Hopper on October 05, 2020, 05:58:50 PM
Hoping for a speedy recovery to Clan na bhFear.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on October 05, 2020, 06:02:26 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 05, 2020, 03:57:29 PM
Looks like national level 3  no level 5 for now
The old 'c**k / Nose' tactic played to a Tee.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 05, 2020, 06:05:14 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 05, 2020, 03:52:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 05, 2020, 03:38:06 PM
There's two ways of looking at it. We are 7/8 months into this now, messaging from governments on both sides of the border has been poor, people are getting frustrated and agitated about how slow moving things are. Science looks every bit as clueless as they did at the start, they have yet to establish any real definitive idea on how our immunity is to it, how it is spread, what % of people are asymptomatic.

Governments have reacted poorly, we are now in the second wave and how have we improved in hospital capacity, testing and other resources from the start?

At the end of the day, there is one metric that will judge Covid, deaths. And at the minute the while the cases seem to be on the rise, deaths don't seem to be following that trend. That is probably in large down to the fact it's a younger/healthier demographic picking it up. Can you blame youngsters, we all look back at our youth and the freedom with it, we never had to live those years in a pandemic. After 7 or 8 months they are now saying screw it, it's not good but you can understand it.

The real issue is that science is being shown up here, it is chasing its tail around the place and still unable to give clear answers on basic aspects of the virus - immunity, anitbodies, % of asymptomatic etc.

When it turns out that the smartest kid in the class is a dunce then we are in trouble.

There are decent answers to all these questions if you could be bothered look for them.

You'll be waiting a while for your definitive answers, though. That's not really how it works.

There are conflicting answers to all of these which is the problem.

They don't have the slightest clue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 06:31:12 PM
if the government are going to do what the media are saying they're going to do and reject NPHET's advice I think it's a very bad call

Huge long term consequences for compliance to whatever restrictions are in place at any particular time

A seminal moment

The crackpots have seriously influenced public debate for the worse

Sure you might as well put Generic Ultra-Confident But Clueless Blowhard Airline Executive in charge of policy now

That'll keep the contrarians happy

But it won't be good for public health and the health system

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 05, 2020, 06:49:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 06:31:12 PM
if the government are going to do what the media are saying they're going to do and reject NPHET's advice I think it's a very bad call

I's say they haven't so much rejected it as postponed it, despite the headlines. More a case of moving up through the gears. The NPHET meeting last Thursday didn't have this so the Sunday recommendation was a bit a step change.

In a few days the government will say "we warned you, but the numbers are still going up" and go for level 4,  in many places at least.

QuoteSure you might as well put Generic Ultra-Confident But Clueless Blowhard Airline Executive in charge of policy now

Actually, that wouldn't be such a bad idea. If aforesaid person was in charge, then people would be wearing masks and if they don't like they could get out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 06:55:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 05, 2020, 06:49:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 06:31:12 PM
if the government are going to do what the media are saying they're going to do and reject NPHET's advice I think it's a very bad call

I's say they haven't so much rejected it as postponed it, despite the headlines. More a case of moving up through the gears. The NPHET meeting last Thursday didn't have this so the Sunday recommendation was a bit a step change.

In a few days the government will say "we warned you, but the numbers are still going up" and go for level 4,  in many places at least.

QuoteSure you might as well put Generic Ultra-Confident But Clueless Blowhard Airline Executive in charge of policy now

Actually, that wouldn't be such a bad idea. If aforesaid person was in charge, then people would be wearing masks and if they don't like they could get out.
It seems obvious to me it's a postponement

But sure that's what the Brits did in March, you're best off acting sooner rather than later

Maybe there's a psychological aspect to it, ie. deliberately let the numbers go up to scare people, but not so far up that it overwhelms the health service

But I don't actually think they're that machiavelian

And by doing that you dice with things spiralling out of control

Putting the fire out when you have the chance is better than letting it rage a bit more before acting

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 05, 2020, 08:06:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 06:55:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 05, 2020, 06:49:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 06:31:12 PM
if the government are going to do what the media are saying they're going to do and reject NPHET's advice I think it's a very bad call

I's say they haven't so much rejected it as postponed it, despite the headlines. More a case of moving up through the gears. The NPHET meeting last Thursday didn't have this so the Sunday recommendation was a bit a step change.

In a few days the government will say "we warned you, but the numbers are still going up" and go for level 4,  in many places at least.

QuoteSure you might as well put Generic Ultra-Confident But Clueless Blowhard Airline Executive in charge of policy now

Actually, that wouldn't be such a bad idea. If aforesaid person was in charge, then people would be wearing masks and if they don't like they could get out.
It seems obvious to me it's a postponement

But sure that's what the Brits did in March, you're best off acting sooner rather than later

Maybe there's a psychological aspect to it, ie. deliberately let the numbers go up to scare people, but not so far up that it overwhelms the health service

But I don't actually think they're that machiavelian

And by doing that you dice with things spiralling out of control

Putting the fire out when you have the chance is better than letting it rage a bit more before acting



Would you maybe agree though that there's a better chance of the fire being allowed to be put out, when people are scared of getting burnt?

Level 5 is only a theoretical level 5  until the majority of the population get onboard with it. Sadly, until there's a massive spike in deaths somewhere (it doesn't have to be Ireland, but close enough to home to make it seem very real), a chunky percentage of the population will ignore it. Not fight it per se, but definitely pay lip service to it.

I'd also think that much as everyone wants to keep schools open, the right time to level 5 it is with an extended school break. It will just be easier to comprehend and get on board with.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 05, 2020, 08:19:04 PM
Inadequate health services and capacity seems to be the biggest crisis rather than the virus itself.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 05, 2020, 09:57:05 PM
Varadker confirming on Claire Byrne that no-one in government or Npet is proposing a Zero COVID policy. "Have to learn t live with the virus".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 10:09:37 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2020, 08:06:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 06:55:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 05, 2020, 06:49:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 06:31:12 PM
if the government are going to do what the media are saying they're going to do and reject NPHET's advice I think it's a very bad call

I's say they haven't so much rejected it as postponed it, despite the headlines. More a case of moving up through the gears. The NPHET meeting last Thursday didn't have this so the Sunday recommendation was a bit a step change.

In a few days the government will say "we warned you, but the numbers are still going up" and go for level 4,  in many places at least.

QuoteSure you might as well put Generic Ultra-Confident But Clueless Blowhard Airline Executive in charge of policy now

Actually, that wouldn't be such a bad idea. If aforesaid person was in charge, then people would be wearing masks and if they don't like they could get out.
It seems obvious to me it's a postponement

But sure that's what the Brits did in March, you're best off acting sooner rather than later

Maybe there's a psychological aspect to it, ie. deliberately let the numbers go up to scare people, but not so far up that it overwhelms the health service

But I don't actually think they're that machiavelian

And by doing that you dice with things spiralling out of control

Putting the fire out when you have the chance is better than letting it rage a bit more before acting



Would you maybe agree though that there's a better chance of the fire being allowed to be put out, when people are scared of getting burnt?

Level 5 is only a theoretical level 5  until the majority of the population get onboard with it. Sadly, until there's a massive spike in deaths somewhere (it doesn't have to be Ireland, but close enough to home to make it seem very real), a chunky percentage of the population will ignore it. Not fight it per se, but definitely pay lip service to it.

I'd also think that much as everyone wants to keep schools open, the right time to level 5 it is with an extended school break. It will just be easier to comprehend and get on board with.
This is possible, but it's also possible the fire will continue to burn underneath the floorboards and by the time people decide they want out, the fire could be out of control

In my view the lockdown is likely to be longer and harder the longer you put it off, we have the lesson of last March for this

Public debate has turned into an almost impenetrable barrage of conflicting messages the last few months and especially the last few weeks as RTE and the Irish Times have platformed a series of contrarians who in truth have had very weak arguments, people like Ciara Kelly and Niall Boylan are driving a large section of visible public opinion (as opposed to what I believe is still a large, largely silent majority) in what in my view is a very worrying direction

The government so publicly going against Neffit now only contributes even more to that

But I don't think the data presents us with a hugely conflicting picture, it's going in one direction

I think if this doesn't work, and I expect it probably won't, I think in a best case scenario it will keep things ticking along at a certain level which is already too high and which means restrictions cannot be relaxed, it will lead to a very deep seated distrust and cynicism towards any government messaging, which would be very unfortunate

I think part of the problem also is that the public messaging since last March suggested or at least hinted that restrictions could be a reasonably short term thing

It was a sort of "the war will be over by Christmas" idea

But that wasn't the case and even last March it always seemed very unlikely that it would be

This is likely a multi-year job

People are going to have to reconcile themselves to this likelihood or at least the strong possibility of such

The zero Covid strategy still seems worthy of a serious discussion

At least government need to come out and state very clearly why it is not possible if they believe it's not possible

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 05, 2020, 10:15:31 PM

QuoteIt was a sort of "the war will be over by Christmas" idea

No, but there can be an objective not to have overflowing hospitals and old people unable to visit the relatives at Christmas, and to achieve that we have to put the squeeze on now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 05, 2020, 10:17:09 PM
If we are in a second wave, will there be a third and fourth wave?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 05, 2020, 10:26:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 05, 2020, 10:17:09 PM
If we are in a second wave, will there be a third and fourth wave?

Probably not a fourth one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 05, 2020, 10:27:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 10:09:37 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 05, 2020, 08:06:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 06:55:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 05, 2020, 06:49:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 06:31:12 PM
if the government are going to do what the media are saying they're going to do and reject NPHET's advice I think it's a very bad call

I's say they haven't so much rejected it as postponed it, despite the headlines. More a case of moving up through the gears. The NPHET meeting last Thursday didn't have this so the Sunday recommendation was a bit a step change.

In a few days the government will say "we warned you, but the numbers are still going up" and go for level 4,  in many places at least.

QuoteSure you might as well put Generic Ultra-Confident But Clueless Blowhard Airline Executive in charge of policy now

Actually, that wouldn't be such a bad idea. If aforesaid person was in charge, then people would be wearing masks and if they don't like they could get out.
It seems obvious to me it's a postponement

But sure that's what the Brits did in March, you're best off acting sooner rather than later

Maybe there's a psychological aspect to it, ie. deliberately let the numbers go up to scare people, but not so far up that it overwhelms the health service

But I don't actually think they're that machiavelian

And by doing that you dice with things spiralling out of control

Putting the fire out when you have the chance is better than letting it rage a bit more before acting



Would you maybe agree though that there's a better chance of the fire being allowed to be put out, when people are scared of getting burnt?

Level 5 is only a theoretical level 5  until the majority of the population get onboard with it. Sadly, until there's a massive spike in deaths somewhere (it doesn't have to be Ireland, but close enough to home to make it seem very real), a chunky percentage of the population will ignore it. Not fight it per se, but definitely pay lip service to it.

I'd also think that much as everyone wants to keep schools open, the right time to level 5 it is with an extended school break. It will just be easier to comprehend and get on board with.
This is possible, but it's also possible the fire will continue to burn underneath the floorboards and by the time people decide they want out, the fire could be out of control

In my view the lockdown is likely to be longer and harder the longer you put it off, we have the lesson of last March for this

Public debate has turned into an almost impenetrable barrage of conflicting messages the last few months and especially the last few weeks as RTE and the Irish Times have platformed a series of contrarians who in truth have had very weak arguments, people like Ciara Kelly and Niall Boylan are driving a large section of visible public opinion (as opposed to what I believe is still a large, largely silent majority) in what in my view is a very worrying direction

The government so publicly going against Neffit now only contributes even more to that

But I don't think the data presents us with a hugely conflicting picture, it's going in one direction

I think if this doesn't work, and I expect it probably won't, I think in a best case scenario it will keep things ticking along at a certain level which is already too high and which means restrictions cannot be relaxed, it will lead to a very deep seated distrust and cynicism towards any government messaging, which would be very unfortunate

I think part of the problem also is that the public messaging since last March suggested or at least hinted that restrictions could be a reasonably short term thing

It was a sort of "the war will be over by Christmas" idea

But that wasn't the case and even last March it always seemed very unlikely that it would be

This is likely a multi-year job

People are going to have to reconcile themselves to this likelihood or at least the strong possibility of such

The zero Covid strategy still seems worthy of a serious discussion

At least government need to come out and state very clearly why it is not possible if they believe it's not possible

It seems the Zero COVID debate is dead. You can't keep flogging a dead horse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 10:31:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 05, 2020, 10:17:09 PM
If we are in a second wave, will there be a third and fourth wave?
I'm not sure it's useful to think of this in waves

It's probably more useful to imagine it as Japanese knotweed

Or Dublin in the second half of an All-Ireland final

It'll just keep coming at you relentlessly

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 10:34:32 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 05, 2020, 10:27:33 PM

It seems the Zero COVID debate is dead. You can't keep flogging a dead horse.
There's never really been a proper debate about it

New Zealand shows it can work

Devi Sridhar said last week that the UK is now effectively pursuing its own zero Covid strategy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 05, 2020, 10:35:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 10:31:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 05, 2020, 10:17:09 PM
If we are in a second wave, will there be a third and fourth wave?
I'm not sure it's useful to think of this in waves

It's probably more useful to imagine it as Japanese knotweed

Or Dublin in the second half of an All-Ireland final

It'll just keep coming at you relentlessly

There is an end to it. It's not relentless
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on October 05, 2020, 10:43:04 PM
Leo Varadkar gave a rare good interview on RTÉ tonight. Good detail why the government didn't agree with NPHET recommendations of level 5 right now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 10:52:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 05, 2020, 10:35:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 10:31:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 05, 2020, 10:17:09 PM
If we are in a second wave, will there be a third and fourth wave?
I'm not sure it's useful to think of this in waves

It's probably more useful to imagine it as Japanese knotweed

Or Dublin in the second half of an All-Ireland final

It'll just keep coming at you relentlessly

There is an end to it. It's not relentless
There's little to suggest it's not relentless, at least in the medium term, pretty much everything we know says it is

What we don't know is whether it will continue to impact human health and mortality in the same way it has been doing - or how and when we will be able to deal with it as a threat
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: nrico2006 on October 06, 2020, 08:33:28 AM
Were there equivalents to lockdown during the Spanish flu?  How long did it take for things to go back to normal back then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on October 06, 2020, 08:50:27 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 10:34:32 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 05, 2020, 10:27:33 PM

It seems the Zero COVID debate is dead. You can't keep flogging a dead horse.
There's never really been a proper debate about it

New Zealand shows it can work

Devi Sridhar said last week that the UK is now effectively pursuing its own zero Covid strategy

But the circumstances are different, I know from a construction perspective there are very few if any of the top tier contractors not plying their trade across the water, it was evident as soon as things were relaxed slightly the photograph of the Aer Lingus flight out of Belfast to Heathrow on a Monday morning (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52539141 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52539141)).

As much as Michelle et al try to push the one island agenda it is not feasible, these 2 islands are intrinsically linked, and unless GB and Ireland decide on a joint zero Covid strategy (which they will not) I don't believe it is viable.   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 06, 2020, 09:05:10 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 05, 2020, 10:43:04 PM
Leo Varadkar gave a rare good interview on RTÉ tonight. Good detail why the government didn't agree with NPHET recommendations of level 5 right now.

Agreed. NPHET it seems wanted to make it clear that if things start to go south with deaths, that it's not on them. They are willingly oblivious to the fact that making recommendations is easy, but implementing decisions is tough.

Now is not the time for that.

I hope their wings are severely clipped.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 06, 2020, 09:17:12 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on October 06, 2020, 08:33:28 AM
Were there equivalents to lockdown during the Spanish flu?  How long did it take for things to go back to normal back then?

Can't really compare, there wasn't even antibiotics etc in those days, which if there had been could have saved many, many lives.

Post war malnutrition, hygiene, mass movement of people were massive factors in the spread of Spanish Flu.

The Spanish Flu still exists today, I think the same strain as the Swine Flu outbreak back towards the end of the last decade. It's just they got the vaccine for it some years later.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 10:23:32 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 06, 2020, 09:05:10 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 05, 2020, 10:43:04 PM
Leo Varadkar gave a rare good interview on RTÉ tonight. Good detail why the government didn't agree with NPHET recommendations of level 5 right now.

Agreed. NPHET it seems wanted to make it clear that if things start to go south with deaths, that it's not on them. They are willingly oblivious to the fact that making recommendations is easy, but implementing decisions is tough.

Now is not the time for that.

I hope their wings are severely clipped.
Great

Let's get advice from non experts so

Maybe Generic Ultra Confident Airline Executive
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 06, 2020, 10:43:45 AM
Sid you're a ball of contradictions on this one. In previous posts you've issued sympathy for politicians as there is no easy or right answer for them.

Conversely NPHET have a remarkably easy job: "there's a virus going around and it's getting worse, so shut the place down". You don't need any expertise in the slightest to issue such a recommendation; all you need is a narrow focus and an aversion to risk.

Personally I think they're out of order here. The govt have been dodging traffic for months and NPHET just enabled a fleet of forty-foots to carry themselves to safety, regardless of who's on the road.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 10:56:13 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 06, 2020, 10:43:45 AM
Sid you're a ball of contradictions on this one. In previous posts you've issued sympathy for politicians as there is no easy or right answer for them.

Conversely NPHET have a remarkably easy job: "there's a virus going around and it's getting worse, so shut the place down". You don't need any expertise in the slightest to issue such a recommendation; all you need is a narrow focus and an aversion to risk.

Personally I think they're out of order here. The govt have been dodging traffic for months and NPHET just enabled a fleet of forty-foots to carry themselves to safety, regardless of who's on the road.
You called for the group of actual experts who are supposed to recommend policy to "have their wings clipped"

Varadkar vilified them last night because he didn't like what he had to say

Seems you want a Trump-style approach to policy, ie. purge expertise and let the loonies in

You've had enough of experts

Looks like you may be getting your way

Experts out, Generic Ultra Confident Airline Guys in

Let's have a chlorinated chicken approach to Covid



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 06, 2020, 11:03:15 AM
So you've gone full circle again then, and believe that nationwide government policy should be left in the hands of unelected scientists.

Okay. Just good to clear that up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 11:44:42 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 06, 2020, 11:03:15 AM
So you've gone full circle again then, and believe that nationwide government policy should be left in the hands of unelected scientists.

Okay. Just good to clear that up.
You're going full internet eejit here

Plus ca change

Internet eejits desperately search for "hypocrisy" when they have no argument

And when they can't find hypocrisy, like you can't, they invent it, like you do, and invent straw men

That you use the phrase "unelected scientists" is very telling as to your frame of mind

Do please clarify for me whether i) you want advice to only come from elected people, ie., people who don't have any expertise at all or ii) you want scientists and experts in relevant fields to have to face election








Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 06, 2020, 11:47:43 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 06, 2020, 11:03:15 AMbelieve that nationwide government policy should be left in the hands of unelected scientists.

The scientists made their recommendation, the govt chose to go another route - that's their prerogative.

That is generally the approach of all democracies - get recommendations from experts then the elected officials and their civil servants chose which way to go.



But, for the sake of argument - if scientists (and other subject matter experts) were in charge of the country, it'd be a damn sight better off that the current farce. Of course - they'd need leeway to get shot of around half of the civil service and retrain the other half that aren't beyond help.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 06, 2020, 12:00:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 11:44:42 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 06, 2020, 11:03:15 AM
So you've gone full circle again then, and believe that nationwide government policy should be left in the hands of unelected scientists.

Okay. Just good to clear that up.
You're going full internet eejit here

Plus ca change

Internet eejits desperately search for "hypocrisy" when they have no argument

And when they can't find hypocrisy, like you can't, they invent it, like you do, and invent straw men

That you use the phrase "unelected scientists" is very telling as to your frame of mind

Do please clarify for me whether i) you want advice to only come from elected people, ie., people who don't have any expertise at all or ii) you want scientists and experts in relevant fields to have to face election

i. Advice should come from experts.
ii. Decisions should be made be by appointed representatives.

When any unelected person or body attempts to force their will on the people, that is undemocratic.

NPHET's recommendations might be entirely correct.

NPHET informing the media of a level 5 lockdown request on a Sunday evening, before discussing this recommendation with their elected peers whose responsibility it is to implement recommendations, is wrong on every level.

Generals are answerable to politicians for this very reason. Would you be happy to allow a general to wage war because he understands military strategy better than any politician? If not, then that's double standards.


I'm not really sure where the straw man or hypocrisy angle, towards me, is forming here. Unelected advisors should not be hanging the government out to dry. That's okay for lobbyists and the media. It's not okay for advisors.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 06, 2020, 12:26:44 PM
The Level 3 restrictions seem to be primarily just a watered down version of Level 5 which begs the question of why all the hoo-ha over this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on October 06, 2020, 01:23:15 PM
QuoteThe Level 3 restrictions seem to be primarily just a watered down version of Level 5 which begs the question of why all the hoo-ha over this.

Your being sarcastic on this I would hope.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on October 06, 2020, 01:34:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 05, 2020, 10:34:32 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 05, 2020, 10:27:33 PM

It seems the Zero COVID debate is dead. You can't keep flogging a dead horse.
There's never really been a proper debate about it

New Zealand shows it can work

Devi Sridhar said last week that the UK is now effectively pursuing its own zero Covid strategy

Did she?

I'd always thought she was one for living with the virus, masks, proper and I mean proper test and trace and the likes..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on October 06, 2020, 01:57:39 PM
WHO predicts 10% of people have had COVID already .... if correct, the official figures of 35 million globally is a long way off an approx. 800 million based on the 10%. 

Still, 90% of the planet still to be exposed to it, but it would appear to be a lot less deadly if the 10% figures are to be believed.  Roll on a 'thumb-p***k' antibody test so we can all do a quick check.  As for immunity for those who have had it already, the jury is still out on that one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-54422023
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 06, 2020, 02:39:34 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on October 06, 2020, 08:33:28 AM
Were there equivalents to lockdown during the Spanish flu?  How long did it take for things to go back to normal back then?

Here's an interesting article on that in the US. Useful graphs showing what happened when restrictions were lifted early/late relative to other states.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/03/how-cities-flattened-curve-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus/ (https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/03/how-cities-flattened-curve-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 06, 2020, 03:30:12 PM
Positive news with head of the World Health Organization saying a vaccine may be ready by the end of year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on October 06, 2020, 04:32:59 PM
21 residents and 10 staff at a nursing home in Portlaoise all test positive.
Brought in by one staff member I'd guess.
Really not sure what the procedures are for protecting the vulnerable in nursing homes given staff have to live life, but this is some mess and there are more stories of new cases cropping up in other nursing homes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on October 06, 2020, 04:40:13 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 06, 2020, 04:32:59 PM
21 residents and 10 staff at a nursing home in Portlaoise all test positive.
Brought in by one staff member I'd guess.
Really not sure what the procedures are for protecting the vulnerable in nursing homes given staff have to live life, but this is some mess and there are more stories of new cases cropping up in other nursing homes.

Little learnt with the outbreaks in the nursing homes back in spring it seems.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 06, 2020, 05:52:31 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 06, 2020, 03:30:12 PM
Positive news with head of the World Health Organization saying a vaccine may be ready by the end of year.

Some opinion on the end game
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/09/25/how-covid-19-pandemic-ends-421122
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 06, 2020, 06:22:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 06, 2020, 05:52:31 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 06, 2020, 03:30:12 PM
Positive news with head of the World Health Organization saying a vaccine may be ready by the end of year.

Some opinion on the end game
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/09/25/how-covid-19-pandemic-ends-421122

When was that article dated?  Tedros Adhanom was one of those that said it would be 2022 or 2023 before a vaccine was ready so something has happened since for him to change his mind.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 06, 2020, 06:47:23 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 06, 2020, 06:22:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 06, 2020, 05:52:31 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 06, 2020, 03:30:12 PM
Positive news with head of the World Health Organization saying a vaccine may be ready by the end of year.

Some opinion on the end game
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/09/25/how-covid-19-pandemic-ends-421122

When was that article dated?  Tedros Adhanom was one of those that said it would be 2022 or 2023 before a vaccine was ready so something has happened since for him to change his mind.

The date in the link suggests 25 Sept.
As John Maynard Keynes said, when I receive new information I change my mind, perhaps Adhanom is in this category.

I reckon that vaccines, testing and treatments will all bear down on this virus and useful ones have probably already been invented but still require a period for testing and then widespread deployment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 06, 2020, 06:49:07 PM
432 cases in the 26 today but 669 up North (equivalent to 1700 here)
What the fck are ye at up there???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 06, 2020, 07:55:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 06, 2020, 06:49:07 PM
432 cases in the 26 today but 669 up North (equivalent to 1700 here)
What the fck are ye at up there???

Herd immunity it seems!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 06, 2020, 08:07:27 PM
23 more in hospital and only 20 icu beds left (though to be fair mostly non Covid).

They may get those nightingale hospitals back up again quick.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 06, 2020, 08:30:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 06, 2020, 08:07:27 PM
23 more in hospital and only 20 icu beds left (though to be fair mostly non Covid).

They may get those nightingale hospitals back up again quick.

In April they shipped people from NI to England, as they hadn't enough ICU beds.
They are going to hit the buffers in the North before the 26 counties, given the high rate this week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 06, 2020, 08:43:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 06, 2020, 06:49:07 PM
432 cases in the 26 today but 669 up North (equivalent to 1700 here)
What the fck are ye at up there???

And you have to laugh at Mary  Lou criticising the current government in the Republic
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 06, 2020, 08:55:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 06, 2020, 08:43:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 06, 2020, 06:49:07 PM
432 cases in the 26 today but 669 up North (equivalent to 1700 here)
What the fck are ye at up there???

And you have to laugh at Mary  Lou criticising the current government in the Republic

Sure it's all "FFG's" fault.

Of course the people using the "FFG" acronym have the same wit and intelligence as those pulpit bashing unionists who proclaimed the evils of "SF-IRA."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 08:59:10 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 06, 2020, 08:55:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 06, 2020, 08:43:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 06, 2020, 06:49:07 PM
432 cases in the 26 today but 669 up North (equivalent to 1700 here)
What the fck are ye at up there???

And you have to laugh at Mary  Lou criticising the current government in the Republic

Sure it's all "FFG's" fault.

Of course the people using the "FFG" acronym have the same wit and intelligence as those pulpit bashing unionists who proclaimed the evils of "SF-IRA."
What are the differences between Fianna Fail and Fine Gael?

Apart from what time they eat their dinner at
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 06, 2020, 09:40:14 PM
Why is the case load and deaths in America not increasing exponentially given that there is a) so much COVID and b) so many people who don't believe in restrictions. Surely both should be increasing rather than sitting on this plateau it seems to have formed?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Minder on October 06, 2020, 09:47:54 PM
What's the American obsession with masks? In instances where they serve little purpose. Now I understand you wear them when you are in close contact with people if you can't socially distance.

Some politician was giving some sort of outdoor briefing to press the other day and he wasn't close to any reporters yet people were going mental on Twitter because he was maskless. Is it just wear a mask at all times and never worry about social distancing ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 06, 2020, 09:55:51 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 06, 2020, 09:40:14 PM
Why is the case load and deaths in America not increasing exponentially given that there is a) so much COVID and b) so many people who don't believe in restrictions. Surely both should be increasing rather than sitting on this plateau it seems to have formed?

Because a lot of people in America do believe in it, are being very careful and don't make themselves available to be infected, as far as they can.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 10:20:23 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 06, 2020, 12:00:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 11:44:42 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 06, 2020, 11:03:15 AM
So you've gone full circle again then, and believe that nationwide government policy should be left in the hands of unelected scientists.

Okay. Just good to clear that up.
You're going full internet eejit here

Plus ca change

Internet eejits desperately search for "hypocrisy" when they have no argument

And when they can't find hypocrisy, like you can't, they invent it, like you do, and invent straw men

That you use the phrase "unelected scientists" is very telling as to your frame of mind

Do please clarify for me whether i) you want advice to only come from elected people, ie., people who don't have any expertise at all or ii) you want scientists and experts in relevant fields to have to face election

i. Advice should come from experts.
ii. Decisions should be made be by appointed representatives.

When any unelected person or body attempts to force their will on the people, that is undemocratic.

NPHET's recommendations might be entirely correct.

NPHET informing the media of a level 5 lockdown request on a Sunday evening, before discussing this recommendation with their elected peers whose responsibility it is to implement recommendations, is wrong on every level.

Generals are answerable to politicians for this very reason. Would you be happy to allow a general to wage war because he understands military strategy better than any politician? If not, then that's double standards.


I'm not really sure where the straw man or hypocrisy angle, towards me, is forming here. Unelected advisors should not be hanging the government out to dry. That's okay for lobbyists and the media. It's not okay for advisors.
Lots of faux emotive stuff there but little in the way of facts

You have no evidence that NPHET leaked anything, yet base your entire post around an assumption which plays off your own bias

NPHET are there to advise, which they have - politicians are free to dismiss that advice if they like, but they can't then claim that policy is being informed by expertise

Consistent references to NPHET being unelected is nothing other than an attempt to discredit them and promote the idea that policy should reject expertise

Of course NPHET are unelected - scientists and medical experts are not voted in by election

And they should not have to face election, because who has expertise is not decided by public vote

Varadkar's carry on last night was pathetic, it will come back to bite him, well it should anyway, it was impetuous, sneering arrogance
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 06, 2020, 10:29:21 PM
I believe you're arguing with the poster and not the post. Because you're currently advocating we should be governed by civil servants.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 10:35:09 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 06, 2020, 10:29:21 PM
I believe you're arguing with the poster and not the post. Because you're currently advocating we should be governed by civil servants.
Unfortunately there's no way of arguing with faux emotive bad faith nonsense like this, it's like something you'd get at an anti-mask rally

In reality the government have circled the wagons on Varadkar, pushing back on his rant last night, while Varadkar himself has fairly changed his tune and is now strongly suggesting a lockdown is in the offing after all

Cold hard reality will always trump bluster in the end
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 06, 2020, 10:39:28 PM
Oh goodie, you're back to randomly arranging topical buzzwords into incoherent drivel.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 06, 2020, 10:42:49 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 06, 2020, 10:39:28 PM
Oh goodie, you're back to randomly arranging topical buzzwords into incoherent drivel.
Try not to project just for once, please, for your sake more than mine
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 06, 2020, 10:54:36 PM
Spotlight covering Sweden's approach. Less than half the current cases we have of late, this coming from a country 5 times bigger population than the north
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on October 06, 2020, 11:14:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 06, 2020, 10:54:36 PM
Spotlight covering Sweden's approach. Less than half the current cases we have of late, this coming from a country 5 times bigger population than the north

Yeah but the Swede's didn't have a huge backlog of communion and confirmation parties to get through
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 06, 2020, 11:25:12 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 06, 2020, 10:39:28 PM
Oh goodie, you're back to randomly arranging topical buzzwords into incoherent drivel.

At least he's moved on from the "airline executive buzzword buzzword buzzword buzzword" phrase. I began to think he had Tourette's there for a while he repeated it that often.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 06, 2020, 11:27:03 PM
For anyone interested in the data the excess deaths info is very interesting. Much more informative than the Covid deaths on worldometer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 06, 2020, 11:45:53 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on October 06, 2020, 11:14:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 06, 2020, 10:54:36 PM
Spotlight covering Sweden's approach. Less than half the current cases we have of late, this coming from a country 5 times bigger population than the north

Yeah but the Swede's didn't have a huge backlog of communion and confirmation parties to get through

Those Protestants, up to no some good as usual for once.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on October 06, 2020, 11:49:29 PM
It's now time to bring Sweden back into the discussion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 07, 2020, 12:35:44 AM
Covid Hospital watch in the ROI as 8pm tonight.

142 in hospital and 24 of them are in ICU

74 in Dublin hospitals
11 in Donegal
10 in Westmeath
8 in Offaly
8 in Limerick
7 in Cork
5 in Kildare
4 in Waterford
3 in Cavan
3 in Louth
2 in Laois
2 in Kerry
1 in Galway
1 in Meath
1 in Sligo
1 in Wexford
1 in Tipperary
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on October 07, 2020, 12:46:16 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 05, 2020, 10:43:04 PM
Leo Varadkar gave a rare good interview on RTÉ tonight. Good detail why the government didn't agree with NPHET recommendations of level 5 right now.
It was a good interview, Leo is at his best when making it crystal clear that he's the smartest kid in the room. NPHET just didn't reach the standards this time. Leo was in full matador mode, with the dress, the lance and the kill.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on October 07, 2020, 12:52:03 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 07, 2020, 12:46:16 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 05, 2020, 10:43:04 PM
Leo Varadkar gave a rare good interview on RTÉ tonight. Good detail why the government didn't agree with NPHET recommendations of level 5 right now.
It was a good interview, Leo is at his best when making it crystal clear that he's the smartest kid in the room. NPHET just didn't reach the standards this time. Leo was in full matador mode, with the dress, the lance and the kill.

He might not look so smart in a month's time if things are completely out of control and the country is in level 5.  Last night's interview could haunt him.  But I hope that situation never arises.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 07, 2020, 12:54:03 AM
Now tonight he's saying that we might have to move to a "circuit breaker".
Is it a case of I'm the alpha Male not Dr Holohan??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 01:16:19 AM
Quote from: highorlow on October 06, 2020, 11:49:29 PM
It's now time to bring Sweden back into the discussion.
Sweden's casing are rising significantly
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 01:18:02 AM
Quote from: trileacman on October 06, 2020, 11:25:12 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 06, 2020, 10:39:28 PM
Oh goodie, you're back to randomly arranging topical buzzwords into incoherent drivel.

At least he's moved on from the "airline executive buzzword buzzword buzzword buzzword" phrase. I began to think he had Tourette's there for a while he repeated it that often.
The lads are not happy

Good Statler and Waldorf impression, to be fair
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 07, 2020, 09:49:55 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 01:16:19 AM
Quote from: highorlow on October 06, 2020, 11:49:29 PM
It's now time to bring Sweden back into the discussion.
Sweden's casing are rising significantly

Rising but still less than the Uk and the north of Ireland
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on October 07, 2020, 09:51:18 AM
The testing is inaccurate,  thats why numbers are going up.
The deaths are falling,  amd most of them are probably connected to other causes
Simple really.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on October 07, 2020, 09:59:25 AM
Quote from: Dire Ear on October 07, 2020, 09:51:18 AM
The testing is inaccurate,  thats why numbers are going up.
The deaths are falling,  amd most of them are probably connected to other causes
Simple really.

Phew, glad that's sorted
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on October 07, 2020, 09:59:58 AM
Quote from: trileacman on October 06, 2020, 11:27:03 PM
For anyone interested in the data the excess deaths info is very interesting. Much more informative than the Covid deaths on worldometer.

Where's that available?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 07, 2020, 10:08:36 AM
Quote from: Dire Ear on October 07, 2020, 09:51:18 AM
The testing is inaccurate,  thats why numbers are going up.
The deaths are falling,  amd most of them are probably connected to other causes
Simple really.

Possible. What's more certain is that we are doing multiple times the amount of testing we did in April/May leading to more positive cases right now.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 07, 2020, 10:36:13 AM
I keep reading about inaccurate testing. It does tend to come from "covid deniers" however I suspect there is something somewhere in there about accuracies(false positives and other things like flu/ cold being positives are things I tend to see). I wouldn't expect it to lead to massive numbers mind you. More people tested will lead to more positives. I would still think more people than know about this thing have had it and probably a good few more at that.(Nothing to back that up but 2 feelings I have is that and it has been floating round for way longer than we think.)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 07, 2020, 11:00:56 AM
Quote from: Dire Ear on October 07, 2020, 09:51:18 AM
The testing is inaccurate,  thats why numbers are going up.
The deaths are falling,  amd most of them are probably connected to other causes
Simple really.

All testing is somewhat inaccurate, that does not mean that it is not useful. This "inaccurate testing" is a nonsense justification for people who want to justify irresponsible behaviour. 

Quote from: imtommygunn on October 07, 2020, 10:36:13 AM
I keep reading about inaccurate testing. It does tend to come from "covid deniers" however I suspect there is something somewhere in there about accuracies(false positives and other things like flu/ cold being positives are things I tend to see). I wouldn't expect it to lead to massive numbers mind you. More people tested will lead to more positives. I would still think more people than know about this thing have had it and probably a good few more at that.(Nothing to back that up but 2 feelings I have is that and it has been floating round for way longer than we think.)

There is more testing and this is identifying some less serious cases. But we've always known that this was the case. The purpose of testing is not so much to declare you a serious case as to identify that you might infect others and to stay at home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2020, 11:27:48 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 06, 2020, 10:54:36 PM
Spotlight covering Sweden's approach. Less than half the current cases we have of late, this coming from a country 5 times bigger population than the north

Aye, but Henrik doesn't see the need to hit the pub as much as Paddy.

Nor does Henrik see the need to attend at least one house party every month - Paddy's life would fall apart without a sesh to look forward to.


If the Swedes had done the lockdown, their cases & deaths would be much lower than what they are. If we hadn't done the lockdown, tens of thousands would be dead at this point. Two very different countries occupied by two very different peoples.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on October 07, 2020, 11:30:42 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2020, 11:27:48 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 06, 2020, 10:54:36 PM
Spotlight covering Sweden's approach. Less than half the current cases we have of late, this coming from a country 5 times bigger population than the north

Aye, but Henrik doesn't see the need to hit the pub as much as Paddy.

Nor does Henrik see the need to attend at least one house party every month - Paddy's life would fall apart without a sesh to look forward to.


If the Swedes had done the lockdown, their cases & deaths would be much lower than what they are. If we hadn't done the lockdown, tens of thousands would be dead at this point. Two very different countries occupied by two very different peoples.

Henrik likes to distill hard liquor in his garage or garden shed and over the course of his lifetime stands a higher chance than Paddy of being hospitalised with alcohol poisoning.

Faraway hills.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 07, 2020, 11:30:59 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2020, 11:27:48 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 06, 2020, 10:54:36 PM
Spotlight covering Sweden's approach. Less than half the current cases we have of late, this coming from a country 5 times bigger population than the north

Aye, but Henrik doesn't see the need to hit the pub as much as Paddy.

Nor does Henrik see the need to attend at least one house party every month - Paddy's life would fall apart without a sesh to look forward to.


If the Swedes had done the lockdown, their cases & deaths would be much lower than what they are. If we hadn't done the lockdown, tens of thousands would be dead at this point. Two very different countries occupied by two very different peoples.

You have never been to Sweden, so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2020, 11:35:33 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 07, 2020, 11:30:59 AM
You have never been to Sweden, so.

With the price of beer in Sweden, Henrik can't hit the pub as much as Paddy.

Which, as far as COVID goes - is the pertinent point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2020, 11:36:36 AM
Quote from: five points on October 07, 2020, 11:30:42 AM
Henrik likes to distill hard liquor in his garage or garden shed and over the course of his lifetime stands a higher chance than Paddy of being hospitalised with alcohol poisoning.

Faraway hills.

::)

So when he's distilling it in the garage and drinking it in the house - is he spreading COVID to:

(a) the far wall of the garage
(b) the sofa
(c) other people

Answers on a postcard please.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 07, 2020, 11:38:50 AM
There's an article on I think it's called the national enquirer on how they think lockdowns are bullshit and the virus is seasonal so it's the seasons changing that are the reason for the upsurge.

(N.B. I don't believe that at all but it is always interesting to see what those with opposing views think).

(Also I suspect seasons have some bearing.)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 07, 2020, 11:40:43 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 07, 2020, 11:30:59 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2020, 11:27:48 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 06, 2020, 10:54:36 PM
Spotlight covering Sweden's approach. Less than half the current cases we have of late, this coming from a country 5 times bigger population than the north

Aye, but Henrik doesn't see the need to hit the pub as much as Paddy.

Nor does Henrik see the need to attend at least one house party every month - Paddy's life would fall apart without a sesh to look forward to.


If the Swedes had done the lockdown, their cases & deaths would be much lower than what they are. If we hadn't done the lockdown, tens of thousands would be dead at this point. Two very different countries occupied by two very different peoples.

You have never been to Sweden, so.

In fairness I defo see a difference between the two cultures and but given the chance to do it right, the next time, would our population choose the method we did? or try something else?

I went to bed before it finished, recorded it so will watch it later.. but the one thing the Irish resident said that if the bars or cafes were not following the guidelines then they would be shut the bar/cafe, we need that sort of approach also
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 07, 2020, 11:41:28 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2020, 11:27:48 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 06, 2020, 10:54:36 PM
Spotlight covering Sweden's approach. Less than half the current cases we have of late, this coming from a country 5 times bigger population than the north

Aye, but Henrik doesn't see the need to hit the pub as much as Paddy.

Nor does Henrik see the need to attend at least one house party every month - Paddy's life would fall apart without a sesh to look forward to.


If the Swedes had done the lockdown, their cases & deaths would be much lower than what they are. If we hadn't done the lockdown, tens of thousands would be dead at this point. Two very different countries occupied by two very different peoples.

That's some fine stereotyping skills. What else makes you think Swedish people are less social than other nations?

I've never been in Sweden but I did work in a bar in Spain where the Scandinavians routinely made absolute drunken messes of themselves for the duration of their holidays. I would have assumed that this was an increase on their usual lifestyles, and not down to some miraculous personality change once in possession of pesetas.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2020, 11:43:45 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 07, 2020, 11:38:50 AM
There's an article on I think it's called the national enquirer on how they think lockdowns are bullshit and the virus is seasonal so it's the seasons changing that are the reason for the upsurge.

(N.B. I don't believe that at all but it is always interesting to see what those with opposing views think).

(Also I suspect seasons have some bearing.)

Yeah, well, lets remember that:
1) It was spiking in a period of great weather when the lockdown happened.
2) Other countries have far higher temperatures than us and seen spikes (i.e. Australia)
3) Behaviours change over the seasons - that is likely the biggest thing. More people are socialising indoors now.

Typically virus do not do well in the heat, yet 1 & 2 are contradictory to that.

Now we've a situation where both the virus is likely more persistent (colder weather) and people's behaviours (indoors more) are making them more likely to enable spread. Its a bad mix.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2020, 11:48:04 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 07, 2020, 11:41:28 AM
That's some fine stereotyping skills. What else makes you think Swedish people are less social than other nations?

Where did I say they aren't social? They aren't unsociable, they just do it different and that doesn't involve weekly beer sessions.

A load of statistics on their population density, their average household occupancy, the alcohol consumption per capita. Wee things like that point to the differences.


Being sociable outdoors sans alcohol is a much lower risk than having a dozen pints in the pub with different groups of mates every weekend.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on October 07, 2020, 11:48:19 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2020, 11:36:36 AM
Quote from: five points on October 07, 2020, 11:30:42 AM
Henrik likes to distill hard liquor in his garage or garden shed and over the course of his lifetime stands a higher chance than Paddy of being hospitalised with alcohol poisoning.

Faraway hills.

::)

So when he's distilling it in the garage and drinking it in the house - is he spreading COVID to:

(a) the far wall of the garage
(b) the sofa
(c) other people

Answers on a postcard please.

No, he ducks Covid but ends up with a far more dangerous health issue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 07, 2020, 11:56:13 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 07, 2020, 11:40:43 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 07, 2020, 11:30:59 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2020, 11:27:48 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 06, 2020, 10:54:36 PM
Spotlight covering Sweden's approach. Less than half the current cases we have of late, this coming from a country 5 times bigger population than the north

Aye, but Henrik doesn't see the need to hit the pub as much as Paddy.

Nor does Henrik see the need to attend at least one house party every month - Paddy's life would fall apart without a sesh to look forward to.


If the Swedes had done the lockdown, their cases & deaths would be much lower than what they are. If we hadn't done the lockdown, tens of thousands would be dead at this point. Two very different countries occupied by two very different peoples.

You have never been to Sweden, so.

In fairness I defo see a difference between the two cultures and but given the chance to do it right, the next time, would our population choose the method we did? or try something else?

I went to bed before it finished, recorded it so will watch it later.. but the one thing the Irish resident said that if the bars or cafes were not following the guidelines then they would be shut the bar/cafe, we need that sort of approach also

You would certainly hope so, There would be rule breakers...and of course it would be portrayed as if it was 95% of the population behaving badly and not vice versa. Swift punishments might sort that out, actual punishments....not closed for the night, try again tomorrow night stuff. What better way to punish those who break the rules than let their competitors that adhere to rules, stay open?

Alchohol/Bars/Nightclubs.....this whole area has really been beaten and kicked by the outbreak of Covid. It's actually sad to see an industry get what appears to be the complete blame for the spread of this virus. It's a factor, it's not thee factor. We closed them down for months upon months lets not forget. Let these people get back to work and try and earn a living, I personally feel it's disgusting how they are basically blamed for the whole thing.

With regards to the Swedes....I can assure you they take just as much alcohol as the Irish, they just don't feel the need to kick the shite out of each other after it. I lived there for long enough to have first hand experience.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on October 07, 2020, 12:24:38 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 07, 2020, 10:36:13 AM
I keep reading about inaccurate testing. It does tend to come from "covid deniers" however I suspect there is something somewhere in there about accuracies(false positives and other things like flu/ cold being positives are things I tend to see). I wouldn't expect it to lead to massive numbers mind you. More people tested will lead to more positives. I would still think more people than know about this thing have had it and probably a good few more at that.(Nothing to back that up but 2 feelings I have is that and it has been floating round for way longer than we think.)

The term "inaccurate testing" is a fairly broad one tbf. My understanding (open to correction on this) of the testing method currently used here (PCR) is that it goes through X amount of cycles and each one essentially "magnifies" what the test can detect. At the end of the test, you receive a yes/no result as to whether virus particles have been detected. Possible areas for inaccuracies are:

1. How specific the particles its detecting are to this coronavirus. The more specific it is, the better the accuracy. I don't know the details of what protein (?) the test is searching for

2. It doesn't return a quantifiable result so you can't tell how much virus had been detected. The problem here is that you can't tell if a person is just beginning or just finished having the virus; if the measure was quantifiable, two tests would tell you whether the load was increasing or decreasing. Also, you might get a measure of whether a person is infectious or not (limits would need to be defined first)

3. Difficulty in swabbing / completing the test. These are more likely to slow down testing and / or result in false negatives than false positives

So while the current testing has problems associated with it, it's not simple to just develop and validate a new testing method to overcome these problems without creating others.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mario on October 07, 2020, 12:35:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2020, 11:48:04 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 07, 2020, 11:41:28 AM
That’s some fine stereotyping skills. What else makes you think Swedish people are less social than other nations?

Where did I say they aren't social? They aren't unsociable, they just do it different and that doesn't involve weekly beer sessions.

A load of statistics on their population density, their average household occupancy, the alcohol consumption per capita. Wee things like that point to the differences.


Being sociable outdoors sans alcohol is a much lower risk than having a dozen pints in the pub with different groups of mates every weekend.

I often hear this argument against the Swedish model. Is there evidence to suggest Swedish people suffer lower rates of flu or colds than Ireland or other countries given all the points above?

I think as this plays out it will be clear the Swedish got it right. Regardless of whether Lockdowns work or not they aren't a viable solution.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 07, 2020, 01:44:34 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjqgmvDXsAE87uV?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)

That doesn't make good reading.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 02:32:40 PM
Quote from: Mario on October 07, 2020, 12:35:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2020, 11:48:04 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 07, 2020, 11:41:28 AM
That's some fine stereotyping skills. What else makes you think Swedish people are less social than other nations?

Where did I say they aren't social? They aren't unsociable, they just do it different and that doesn't involve weekly beer sessions.

A load of statistics on their population density, their average household occupancy, the alcohol consumption per capita. Wee things like that point to the differences.


Being sociable outdoors sans alcohol is a much lower risk than having a dozen pints in the pub with different groups of mates every weekend.

I often hear this argument against the Swedish model. Is there evidence to suggest Swedish people suffer lower rates of flu or colds than Ireland or other countries given all the points above?

I think as this plays out it will be clear the Swedish got it right. Regardless of whether Lockdowns work or not they aren't a viable solution.
But that would be to say that their neighbours Norway, Denmark and Finland got it wrong

A quick look at the stats would heavily dispute that notion

I'd like to hear a case made for why Norway, Denmark and Finland supposedly got it wrong
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 07, 2020, 03:12:44 PM
'Sweden, the government vested its pandemic response in its unelected public health expert Anders Tegnell, who issued advice and guidance rather than strict lockdowns. It was highly controversial because of catastrophic failures in its care homes: deaths rose rapidly, far outstripping those recorded in neighbouring countries. But as much of Europe appears to be experiencing a second wave of Covid infections, in Sweden cases are not rising so rapidly.
For the Swedish historian Lars Trägårdh, the answer to the country's relative success can be found by looking at the high levels of trust between citizen and state. It is the reason, he says, that exporting Sweden's bespoke policies across the world will not necessarily work everywhere else'
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 07, 2020, 03:13:59 PM
That clearly wouldn't work with tories anyway as anyone with an ounce of sense wouldn't trust them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mario on October 07, 2020, 04:12:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 02:32:40 PM
Quote from: Mario on October 07, 2020, 12:35:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2020, 11:48:04 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 07, 2020, 11:41:28 AM
That's some fine stereotyping skills. What else makes you think Swedish people are less social than other nations?

Where did I say they aren't social? They aren't unsociable, they just do it different and that doesn't involve weekly beer sessions.

A load of statistics on their population density, their average household occupancy, the alcohol consumption per capita. Wee things like that point to the differences.


Being sociable outdoors sans alcohol is a much lower risk than having a dozen pints in the pub with different groups of mates every weekend.

I often hear this argument against the Swedish model. Is there evidence to suggest Swedish people suffer lower rates of flu or colds than Ireland or other countries given all the points above?

I think as this plays out it will be clear the Swedish got it right. Regardless of whether Lockdowns work or not they aren't a viable solution.
But that would be to say that their neighbours Norway, Denmark and Finland got it wrong

A quick look at the stats would heavily dispute that notion

I'd like to hear a case made for why Norway, Denmark and Finland supposedly got it wrong

People are assessing everything as of right now but COVID is here to stay. There is a lot unknown about the vaccine and the economic impact has not been truly felt by any country yet. To say a country got it right or wrong now is premature. I think history will judge the Swedish approach as the sensible one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 07, 2020, 04:48:21 PM
Quote from: Mario on October 07, 2020, 04:12:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 02:32:40 PM
Quote from: Mario on October 07, 2020, 12:35:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2020, 11:48:04 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 07, 2020, 11:41:28 AM
That's some fine stereotyping skills. What else makes you think Swedish people are less social than other nations?

Where did I say they aren't social? They aren't unsociable, they just do it different and that doesn't involve weekly beer sessions.

A load of statistics on their population density, their average household occupancy, the alcohol consumption per capita. Wee things like that point to the differences.


Being sociable outdoors sans alcohol is a much lower risk than having a dozen pints in the pub with different groups of mates every weekend.

I often hear this argument against the Swedish model. Is there evidence to suggest Swedish people suffer lower rates of flu or colds than Ireland or other countries given all the points above?

I think as this plays out it will be clear the Swedish got it right. Regardless of whether Lockdowns work or not they aren't a viable solution.
But that would be to say that their neighbours Norway, Denmark and Finland got it wrong

A quick look at the stats would heavily dispute that notion

I'd like to hear a case made for why Norway, Denmark and Finland supposedly got it wrong

People are assessing everything as of right now but COVID is here to stay. There is a lot unknown about the vaccine and the economic impact has not been truly felt by any country yet. To say a country got it right or wrong now is premature. I think history will judge the Swedish approach as the sensible one.
Only deluded people will think that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 05:17:11 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 07, 2020, 03:12:44 PM
'Sweden, the government vested its pandemic response in its unelected public health expert Anders Tegnell, who issued advice and guidance rather than strict lockdowns. It was highly controversial because of catastrophic failures in its care homes: deaths rose rapidly, far outstripping those recorded in neighbouring countries. But as much of Europe appears to be experiencing a second wave of Covid infections, in Sweden cases are not rising so rapidly.
For the Swedish historian Lars Trägårdh, the answer to the country's relative success can be found by looking at the high levels of trust between citizen and state. It is the reason, he says, that exporting Sweden's bespoke policies across the world will not necessarily work everywhere else'
It seems to me that one of the big narratives of the pro-Sweden people in Ireland is that they don't like "unelected bureaucrats" (they love the word bureaucrat as it's a pejorative word which can be used instead of an actual argument) making decisions

Yet Sweden's policy is entirely driven by "unelected bureaucrats"

Very curious logic indeed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 07, 2020, 05:29:32 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 07, 2020, 10:08:36 AM
Quote from: Dire Ear on October 07, 2020, 09:51:18 AM
The testing is inaccurate,  thats why numbers are going up.
The deaths are falling,  amd most of them are probably connected to other causes
Simple really.

Possible. What's more certain is that we are doing multiple times the amount of testing we did in April/May leading to more positive cases right now.

Testing numbers in the north have been consistent since the start of September. But case numbers have skyrocketed in that time.

Up from averaging about 2% of tests coming back positive, to over 10%.

Whatever about earlier in the year, the number of positive tests in the north right now absolutely can not be explained by increased testing.

(https://iili.io/2S8fIe.md.png) (https://freeimage.host/i/2S8fIe)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 07, 2020, 05:44:19 PM
Over 800 cases in the North today.
Time to lock ye down (or up)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 05:56:55 PM
611 cases and 5 deaths in the saorstát
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on October 07, 2020, 06:13:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 07, 2020, 05:56:55 PM
611 cases and 5 deaths in the saorstát

I'd wonder was those deaths recently?

Cases in line with the positive swabs 624 in the  last 24hrs from 14,407 tests a lot more tests than is done in NI.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Minder on October 07, 2020, 06:18:34 PM
So no surprise that half of clusters identified in the North traced to hospitality settings
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 07, 2020, 07:01:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 07, 2020, 05:44:19 PM
Over 800 cases in the North today.
Time to lock ye down (or up)
What's the nationalist/unionist split ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 07, 2020, 07:21:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2020, 07:01:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 07, 2020, 05:44:19 PM
Over 800 cases in the North today.
Time to lock ye down (or up)
What's the nationalist/unionist split ?
It's a religious matter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ballinaman on October 07, 2020, 07:36:17 PM
Quote from: Minder on October 07, 2020, 06:18:34 PM
So no surprise that half of clusters identified in the North traced to hospitality settings
Which is frustrating that there isn't enough focus on the K number and environments which super spreading can occur...university accommodation halls, care homes ...
Seasonal variation in terms of a novel virus would help explain the rise in cases also...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 07, 2020, 07:51:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2020, 07:01:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 07, 2020, 05:44:19 PM
Over 800 cases in the North today.
Time to lock ye down (or up)
What's the nationalist/unionist split ?

By looks of it 80% nationalist in fairness
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 07, 2020, 07:52:40 PM
Apparently the government leaked the briefing on Sunday night. They're truly the most pathetic shower of *insert expletive here*. Playing political football in the middle of a pandemic, MM smirking at MHR. f**k them, f**k the whole lot of them. Bring in level 5.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 07, 2020, 07:54:32 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 07, 2020, 07:52:40 PM
Apparently the government leaked the briefing on Sunday night. They're truly the most pathetic shower of *insert expletive here*. Playing political football in the middle of a pandemic, MM smirking at MHR. f**k them, f**k the whole lot of them. Bring in level 5.

You must be a teacher
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 07, 2020, 08:10:04 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 07, 2020, 07:36:17 PM
Quote from: Minder on October 07, 2020, 06:18:34 PM
So no surprise that half of clusters identified in the North traced to hospitality settings
Which is frustrating that there isn't enough focus on the K number and environments which super spreading can occur...university accommodation halls, care homes ...
Seasonal variation in terms of a novel virus would help explain the rise in cases also...

The university accommodation thing is baffling. How did anyone think it would be a good idea bunging all these young people together right now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 07, 2020, 08:26:28 PM
The second wave is a lot more prevalent than the first but the death rates are falling hugely.

I didn't know anyone who had it the time of the first wave but I've heard of plenty of people locally or who I'd know who have either tested positive themselves or being a close contact to a positive case but I haven't heard of anyone being really bad with it, needing hospitalisation or the like.

The big question marks lie around how asymptomatic the disease can be and how immunity works and so far science has not been able to address this.

I think this second wave which we are going through now and will probably continue through Christmas is much more rampant but the virus just doesn't seem to have much of an impact on you if you are young, fit and in good health and that seems to be the demographic that are currently contracting it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 07, 2020, 08:39:55 PM
long covid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 07, 2020, 08:40:29 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 07, 2020, 09:59:58 AM
Quote from: trileacman on October 06, 2020, 11:27:03 PM
For anyone interested in the data the excess deaths info is very interesting. Much more informative than the Covid deaths on worldometer.

Where's that available?

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on October 07, 2020, 08:51:44 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 07, 2020, 08:40:29 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 07, 2020, 09:59:58 AM
Quote from: trileacman on October 06, 2020, 11:27:03 PM
For anyone interested in the data the excess deaths info is very interesting. Much more informative than the Covid deaths on worldometer.

Where's that available?

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

Cheers, ROI not on it but interesting data all the same
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on October 07, 2020, 08:53:35 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 07, 2020, 07:52:40 PM
Apparently the government leaked the briefing on Sunday night.

Where's this reported?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 07, 2020, 09:13:51 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 07, 2020, 08:51:44 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 07, 2020, 08:40:29 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 07, 2020, 09:59:58 AM
Quote from: trileacman on October 06, 2020, 11:27:03 PM
For anyone interested in the data the excess deaths info is very interesting. Much more informative than the Covid deaths on worldometer.

Where's that available?

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

Cheers, ROI not on it but interesting data all the same

ROI excess death was very modest in March/April. The Financial Times and New York Times sites have some good data, FT had NI, Scotland etc also.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 07, 2020, 10:29:41 PM
Dr Martin Feeley, interesting individual and not towing the party line so to speak. Honest assessment taking all knowns and variables into account. Fair play to Rte and other news agents for finally given air time for alternative views.
Know 6 people who have had Covid, 4 describe it as a minor cold, 2 others didn't know they had until they got tested after close contact with someone who had it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 07, 2020, 11:04:02 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 07, 2020, 10:29:41 PM
Dr Martin Feeley, interesting individual and not towing the party line so to speak. Honest assessment taking all knowns and variables into account. Fair play to Rte and other news agents for finally given air time for alternative views.
Know 6 people who have had Covid, 4 describe it as a minor cold, 2 others didn't know they had until they got tested after close contact with someone who had it.

This is it.

There's a lot of scaremongering going out and the consequences of it to young, fit and healthy people.

Of course someone could get a bad dose of it, could end up hospitalised or worse, could find the effects of take some time to shake off entirely but the same could be said of a flu. If you've had a bad flu in the past you know that it can leave you floored for a week or two and take a few months to get back 100% again, I've known people who were fit and healthy who didn't look after a flu and ended up with pneumonia, I'm sure we all do.

There seems to be a major case from the media to push forward some young person who got it and had a rough dose of it and say this can happen to anyone which is pure scaremongering. It can happen but the chances are so, so remote of that happening if you have no underlying health conditions and are fit and healthy.

It clearly is a major global issue but you have so much mixed messaging from governments, telling us that we need to learn to live with the virus and then calls or moves to bring in lockdowns as a result.

The real problem and it seems to be probably a bigger issue down south is that the government are trying to shift the blame on to the people because of poor planning and a dysfunctional health service that is unable to cope with a notable rise in transmission.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 08, 2020, 12:03:46 AM
Rudi's 6 mates prove that Covid isn't worth fretting over and that the WHO, 170 or more Governments and National Health bodies are all wrong.
Those people who have got ongoing problems from Covid are probably imagining it while those who died would have died anyway and aren't worth losing sleep over.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on October 08, 2020, 12:23:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 08, 2020, 12:03:46 AM
Rudi's 6 mates prove that Covid isn't worth fretting over and that the WHO, 170 or more Governments and National Health bodies are all wrong.
Those people who have got ongoing problems from Covid are probably imagining it while those who died would have died anyway and aren't worth losing sleep over.

Is one of them Donald  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on October 08, 2020, 12:49:13 AM
Quote from: Rudi on October 07, 2020, 10:29:41 PM
Dr Martin Feeley, interesting individual and not towing the party line so to speak. Honest assessment taking all knowns and variables into account. Fair play to Rte and other news agents for finally given air time for alternative views.
Know 6 people who have had Covid, 4 describe it as a minor cold, 2 others didn't know they had until they got tested after close contact with someone who had it.

I know about 10 who have had it and 3 are dead.

But neither of our anecdotal opinions matter a damn
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on October 08, 2020, 12:55:16 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 07, 2020, 08:53:35 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 07, 2020, 07:52:40 PM
Apparently the government leaked the briefing on Sunday night.

Where's this reported?

https://twitter.com/fionnansheahan/status/1313897526894960641?s=19
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 08, 2020, 07:15:53 AM
The number of inpatients in the north has been rising by 20 a day last few days :(

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 08, 2020, 07:46:27 AM
Guys does anyone think shops/salons etc will close in the next week or so or will it be bars/restaurants to begin with?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 08, 2020, 07:48:25 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on October 08, 2020, 07:46:27 AM
Guys does anyone think shops/salons etc will close in the next week or so or will it be bars/restaurants to begin with?

Girls will be going to hairdressers in their droves at the threat of the salons and nail bars closing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 08, 2020, 07:53:35 AM
It sounds like it might be more localised what they are doing.

Hard to really know though until they announce. Numbers are shocking but say Belfast it's mostly university students. Whether they go the whole hog because of that who knows. Newry area sounds like it will get the full works like Derry.

Like I say though you wouldn't know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 08, 2020, 09:14:05 AM
It has to be localised otherwise they'll lose the people completely.

Which inevitably means they'll make it nation wide.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 08, 2020, 09:44:10 AM
Positive tests are coming back roughly 1 in 6 in the O6 at present.

How much higher is that likely to be with people not being sent forward for tests and those not displaying any symptoms who have it?

5 times, 10 times?

I know the virus was only officially detected on this island around the end of Feb but being realistic it was probably here in December or before, it has obviously been in existence in China months before it became apparent and its likely a domino effect to each new country it transmits to. By the time testing, tracing and knowledge of the virus, it's probably already embedded there for months

Pure unqualified speculation but I'd imagine it is at its peak now in terms of transmission. Lockdown clearly helps with slowing the transmission but we probably know now zero Covid is not achievable and we have also been told that we need to learn to live with the virus. Lockdown and living with the virus are two completely contradictory strategies.

Until science gets some clear answers on immunity, antibodies and asymptomatic cases then we are living in limbo land.

It will probably go the way of the Spanish flu and peter out near the end of 2021/early 2022 without a vaccine being found. We are probably now entering the "deadly second wave" in terms of contagion levels but I don't think the death rates will reflect that in countries with good health services where proper planning has been put in place since the first wave.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 08, 2020, 10:51:20 AM
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/mystery-of-northern-irelands-alarming-spike-in-cases-of-covid-19-39599289.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 08, 2020, 11:03:07 AM
Mystery?
No fkn mystery!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 08, 2020, 11:09:23 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 08, 2020, 12:03:46 AM
Rudi's 6 mates prove that Covid isn't worth fretting over and that the WHO, 170 or more Governments and National Health bodies are all wrong.
Those people who have got ongoing problems from Covid are probably imagining it while those who died would have died anyway and aren't worth losing sleep over.

In the world of Rosfan 1 + 2 = 12. Where did I say any of the above?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 08, 2020, 11:13:19 AM
I'm amazed at people who wear a mask at the their local 'big' supermarket but take their mask off going into the local Butcher/offie/Spar/Petrol station.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 08, 2020, 11:13:59 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 08, 2020, 11:03:07 AM
Mystery?
No fkn mystery!

I suppose in Rosfans world they came from Bobby Storeys funeral, that's the Rosfan narrative.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 08, 2020, 11:30:47 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 08, 2020, 11:03:07 AM
Mystery?
No fkn mystery!

Enlighten us please. As someone who lives in the North I'd like you to help us.

I can't wait.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 08, 2020, 11:37:54 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 08, 2020, 11:13:19 AM
I'm amazed at people who wear a mask at the their local 'big' supermarket but take their mask off going into the local Butcher/offie/Spar/Petrol station.

There's plenty of non maskers in the big shops too.

What I can't figure out it why all shop workers don't have masks on. Especially those out on the shop floor.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 08, 2020, 12:07:06 PM
I have to say generally speaking in the big shops or any shops near me people wear a mask. At most I would say 10% of people I have seen don't. People who don't really stand out.

Opening the halls of residence has been a major major faux pas up here. My view would be that has been a major catalyst.

No doubt we're all doubting Karens up here and that's the reason it's no mystery ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 08, 2020, 12:14:01 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 08, 2020, 11:09:23 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 08, 2020, 12:03:46 AM
Rudi's 6 mates prove that Covid isn't worth fretting over and that the WHO, 170 or more Governments and National Health bodies are all wrong.
Those people who have got ongoing problems from Covid are probably imagining it while those who died would have died anyway and aren't worth losing sleep over.

In the world of Rosfan 1 + 2 = 12. Where did I say any of the above?

The odd thing with Rossfan is that he will happily promote an unverified news article about Covid suffering, to humanise the horrors of Covid and shout everyone down for fuelling the death of someone he has never met. But any passage in the other direction is quickly shat upon. Why are so many people incapable of detecting their own hypocrisy?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on October 08, 2020, 12:16:33 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 07, 2020, 08:40:29 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 07, 2020, 09:59:58 AM
Quote from: trileacman on October 06, 2020, 11:27:03 PM
For anyone interested in the data the excess deaths info is very interesting. Much more informative than the Covid deaths on worldometer.

Where's that available?

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid
I have a shorter attention span when it comes reseearch paper language. This BBC web page demonstrates the excess deaths pattern. 
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53592881 (https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53592881)

Eg Sweden's excess deaths jan - june were about 1,000 above a 5 year average. Covid deaths were ca 5,000.  That means 4,000
covid related deaths were going to die anyway in that 6 month period. Therefore ca 4,000 either died with covid (not due to covid)   or died a few months week earlier that they would normally, due to covid.  I don't make light of what was endured by those who died earlier due to covid.

The Jan - June UK figures are 60,000 excess deaths.  Covid deaths at that time were recorded at 45,000 (since lowered) . How did the other 15,000 - 20,000 die?
There is an apparant overt manipulation  to lower England's  covid death  figures.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/)
Official published covid UK deaths  within 28 days of covid diagnosis now are 42,500, BUT deaths  with covid on the certificate are now recorded at 57,000
UK excess deaths are 60,000   One can reasonably say that covid deaths in the UK are closer to 60,000 and not the more politically accceptable 42,000.

FWIW
It's claimed that Belgium overegged their covid death stats in order to impress the need for urgency.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 08, 2020, 12:25:45 PM
The tories manipulate figures for their own gain. Well I never.

Bojo meeting for the plan post covid. How about a plan for covid you muppet :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on October 08, 2020, 12:59:42 PM
What are the cases like in primary schools up the North?

I'm just surprised its not more rife in primary schools over here, I know there's cases is plenty of Schools in Manchester in including the one my daughters attend but just surprised it didn't spread. There's been 2 cases in my daughters School which led to the class of 30 going online from home for 2 weeks but in both instances it hasn't led to it being passed to any of their classmates which I find strange and after speaking to mates in other schools this is a familiar pattern.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 08, 2020, 01:10:31 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 08, 2020, 12:25:45 PM
The tories manipulate figures for their own gain. Well I never.

Bojo meeting for the plan post covid. How about a plan for covid you muppet :(

Doesn't happen much I'm sure but, there are cases that will go down as death related to covid 19 that actually wasn't covid,

So the example given last night by the Nolan crackpot he brings on (to shut down) mentioned a case of someone who's had covid within and up to 28 days died in a car crash and his death is noted as Covid related, Nolan then brought in the Cambridge doctor to get his view on it, and he also agreed with the 'crackpot'!

Nolan moved swiftly on as it didn't suit his narrative!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 08, 2020, 01:11:44 PM
I don't know specifics on numbers in primary schools but I definitely know of at least 3 primary schools with cases and one nursery. That is from a cross section of 3 people who have children that I work with have and told me that to be honest so I imagine they could be high enough in general. They're definitely happening anyway though the scale of them I am unsure of.

Nolan needs shut down. That garage forecourt stuff was and is ridiculous.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Minder on October 08, 2020, 01:16:37 PM
My sons primary school has had two cases since the start of September, in a school of probably about 600

Daughter is at the big school with over a thousand pupils and they have had their first case this week
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on October 08, 2020, 01:20:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 08, 2020, 01:10:31 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 08, 2020, 12:25:45 PM
The tories manipulate figures for their own gain. Well I never.

Bojo meeting for the plan post covid. How about a plan for covid you muppet :(

Doesn't happen much I'm sure but, there are cases that will go down as death related to covid 19 that actually wasn't covid,

So the example given last night by the Nolan crackpot he brings on (to shut down) mentioned a case of someone who's had covid within and up to 28 days died in a car crash and his death is noted as Covid related, Nolan then brought in the Cambridge doctor to get his view on it, and he also agreed with the 'crackpot'!

Nolan moved swiftly on as it didn't suit his narrative!

I know of 3 people who's deaths went down as Covid related, Covid had nothing to do with 2 of their deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 08, 2020, 01:22:05 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on October 08, 2020, 12:59:42 PM
What are the cases like in primary schools up the North?

I'm just surprised its not more rife in primary schools over here, I know there's cases is plenty of Schools in Manchester in including the one my daughters attend but just surprised it didn't spread. There's been 2 cases in my daughters School which led to the class of 30 going online from home for 2 weeks but in both instances it hasn't led to it being passed to any of their classmates which I find strange and after speaking to mates in other schools this is a familiar pattern.

It is, people just have an obsession with blaming bars and these house parties ad nauseam.

The cases in schools aren't 'promoted' but they are happening regularly enough.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 08, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on October 08, 2020, 01:20:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 08, 2020, 01:10:31 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 08, 2020, 12:25:45 PM
The tories manipulate figures for their own gain. Well I never.

Bojo meeting for the plan post covid. How about a plan for covid you muppet :(

Doesn't happen much I'm sure but, there are cases that will go down as death related to covid 19 that actually wasn't covid,

So the example given last night by the Nolan crackpot he brings on (to shut down) mentioned a case of someone who's had covid within and up to 28 days died in a car crash and his death is noted as Covid related, Nolan then brought in the Cambridge doctor to get his view on it, and he also agreed with the 'crackpot'!

Nolan moved swiftly on as it didn't suit his narrative!

I know of 3 people who's deaths went down as Covid related, Covid had nothing to do with 2 of their deaths.

So why is that happening? Is it because they can't perform an autopsy ?

Wife's school has had a few cases lately, that they know of... Daughters school has had some also..... eldest daughter is not staying in Elms Halls last week but wants to go back next week! That'll be fun!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 08, 2020, 01:48:52 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 08, 2020, 01:22:05 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on October 08, 2020, 12:59:42 PM
What are the cases like in primary schools up the North?

I'm just surprised its not more rife in primary schools over here, I know there's cases is plenty of Schools in Manchester in including the one my daughters attend but just surprised it didn't spread. There's been 2 cases in my daughters School which led to the class of 30 going online from home for 2 weeks but in both instances it hasn't led to it being passed to any of their classmates which I find strange and after speaking to mates in other schools this is a familiar pattern.

It is, people just have an obsession with blaming bars and these house parties ad nauseam.

The cases in schools aren't 'promoted' but they are happening regularly enough.

Absolutely this. People must be able to be blamed for everything but schools and universities where people are made go to are probably as rife for picking it up as you could find anywhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 08, 2020, 02:00:41 PM
Irelands excess deaths are in the 1000-1100 range at the minute. "Official" Covid figures state it has claimed the lives of 1800. So they are over-estimating the Covid deaths (but maybe only by 500-600 if you allow for standard deviation of the data).

To answer miltown's question even with autopsy it's impossible to directly say what definitely caused the death. You could open up an elderly person and find clear signs of heart disease, kidney disease or lung pathology. It's really hard in such scenarios to definitively say what precisely caused the death. The patient might have tested positive for Covid but was the kidney/heart/lung damage already there prior to Covid or not?

Likewise in a lot of elderly patients, there's disease processes ongoing in that body. Chronic heart failure is a very common co-morbidity with Covid it seems. So you might have an elderly patient, already with quite advanced heat disease and circulatory problems. It doesn't take much for that body system to fail and Covid might just be the trigger that causes it. But what the excess death data seems to suggest is that certain people who caught Covid would have been unlikely to have seen out the year 2020 anyway. This isn't to belittle their deaths in any way but it just seems to be what the data suggests.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 08, 2020, 02:06:02 PM
Also it's not the government job to make sure every Covid death is checked or examined through and through to see if it was definitely a Covid caused death. It would be a waste of resources to investigate deaths in such a grey area.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 08, 2020, 02:09:50 PM
923 positive cases up north today and looks like a further 15-20 in hospital. The 15-20 seems to have been standard this week. That's not a growth rate that can be kept up or there's big trouble :( Looks like maybe an additional 3 in ICU since the start of the week. An 80 year old woman died of it :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 08, 2020, 02:13:43 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 08, 2020, 02:06:02 PM
Also it's not the government job to make sure every Covid death is checked or examined through and through to see if it was definitely a Covid caused death. It would be a waste of resources to investigate deaths in such a grey area.

If any death is labelled Covid, there is no autopsy or post mortem. Because (largely) Covid is doing the damage to the elderly, if the GP states that is Covid or likely to be Covid that goes on the figures that we see from the National Office of Statistics and so forth, so the figures aren't accurate but that's what they are accepted to be.

What the actual figures are would be nice to know, but as you say, a grey area exists.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on October 08, 2020, 03:05:43 PM
What is baffling about schools is that if a child gets it they send the class home.

What about mixing with other classes at break time and lunch time?

I know for a fact many classes all mix during these times - does it not spread then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 08, 2020, 03:11:45 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 08, 2020, 03:05:43 PM
What is baffling about schools is that if a child gets it they send the class home.

What about mixing with other classes at break time and lunch time?

I know for a fact many classes all mix during these times - does it not spread then?

With regards to Covid this is one we have to file under: Things we think, but cannot say.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on October 08, 2020, 03:20:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 08, 2020, 03:11:45 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 08, 2020, 03:05:43 PM
What is baffling about schools is that if a child gets it they send the class home.

What about mixing with other classes at break time and lunch time?

I know for a fact many classes all mix during these times - does it not spread then?

With regards to Covid this is one we have to file under: Things we think, but cannot say.

Oh sorry.
So classes are not supposed to mix during break and lunch but they do and no one is allowed to say anything.
Got it  :-[
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on October 08, 2020, 03:29:49 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 08, 2020, 02:09:50 PM
923 positive cases up north today and looks like a further 15-20 in hospital. The 15-20 seems to have been standard this week. That's not a growth rate that can be kept up or there's big trouble :( Looks like maybe an additional 3 in ICU since the start of the week. An 80 year old woman died of it :(

923 cases from 5,783 tests. ROI yesterday had 611 cases from 14,407 tests. Probably a big number of cases again today after having 754 positive swabs on 15,880 tests in the last 24 hours.

How many more daily cases would NI have if they did 14 to 16k in testing?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on October 08, 2020, 03:55:48 PM
https://www.neweurope.eu/article/finlands-covid-19-cases-hit-new-daily-record/

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 08, 2020, 04:03:42 PM
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/forecast-that-northern-ireland-jobless-total-will-reach-100k-now-looks-optimistic-warns-dodds-39601806.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 08, 2020, 04:07:18 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 08, 2020, 03:29:49 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 08, 2020, 02:09:50 PM
923 positive cases up north today and looks like a further 15-20 in hospital. The 15-20 seems to have been standard this week. That's not a growth rate that can be kept up or there's big trouble :( Looks like maybe an additional 3 in ICU since the start of the week. An 80 year old woman died of it :(

923 cases from 5,783 tests. ROI yesterday had 611 cases from 14,407 tests. Probably a big number of cases again today after having 754 positive swabs on 15,880 tests in the last 24 hours.

How many more daily cases would NI have if they did 14 to 16k in testing?

Theres clearing something in daily routines that is being 'overlooked'.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 08, 2020, 04:29:00 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 08, 2020, 03:55:48 PM
https://www.neweurope.eu/article/finlands-covid-19-cases-hit-new-daily-record/

Robin Swann would settle for 227 cases in a day, and he has only one quarter of the population of Finland.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 08, 2020, 04:40:37 PM
1000 cases this week in Derry and Strabane . Twice as many as Belfast with 3 times less of a population.
Including myself I know of 25 others . I got positive result Sunday morning. My main symptoms are extreme fatigue. The fatigue comes on very suddenly. Sleeping during the day every day. No desire to do anything. But all other symptoms have gone except for mild mucous producing cough at night and heart palpitations.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 08, 2020, 05:44:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 08, 2020, 04:40:37 PM
1000 cases this week in Derry and Strabane . Twice as many as Belfast with 3 times less of a population.
Including myself I know of 25 others . I got positive result Sunday morning. My main symptoms are extreme fatigue. The fatigue comes on very suddenly. Sleeping during the day every day. No desire to do anything. But all other symptoms have gone except for mild mucous producing cough at night and heart palpitations.

Get well soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on October 08, 2020, 08:18:58 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 08, 2020, 04:40:37 PM
1000 cases this week in Derry and Strabane . Twice as many as Belfast with 3 times less of a population.
Including myself I know of 25 others . I got positive result Sunday morning. My main symptoms are extreme fatigue. The fatigue comes on very suddenly. Sleeping during the day every day. No desire to do anything. But all other symptoms have gone except for mild mucous producing cough at night and heart palpitations.
What do you think you did 'wrong' to catch it?
(Not trying to blame you or anything like it! Just interested in how you think you contracted it)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on October 08, 2020, 08:26:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 08, 2020, 09:44:10 AM

I know the virus was only officially detected on this island around the end of Feb but being realistic it was probably here in December or before, it has obviously been in existence in China months before it became apparent and its likely a domino effect to each new country it transmits to. By the time testing, tracing and knowledge of the virus, it's probably already embedded there for months

If you don't believe that it started in Wuhan in Dec, then why believe that it began in China at all? If it was around in Europe in say Nov, then there is currently no known origin
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 08, 2020, 08:27:56 PM
This week the situation deteriorated significantly across Europe

It was clear at least 2 weeks ago that Covid was going to do more serious damage.

18 Sept
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/coronavirus-out-of-control-in-britain-chief-scientific-adviser-admits-1.4368706
"Pedantry and bodgery - why Britain may now face a second painful lockdown
With the virus once more spreading exponentially, we need to stop carping and pull together to flatten the curve all over again"


30 Sept
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/coronavirus-out-of-control-in-britain-chief-scientific-adviser-admits-1.4368706

"Coronavirus out of control in Britain, chief scientific adviser admits
'Things are heading in the wrong direction,' says Vallance as 71 further deaths announced"

It's only a matter of time before lockdown and open chequebooks reappear,  i mo thuairim
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 08, 2020, 09:16:31 PM
Has lethality dropped?

Weighting for the age profile of infected becoming a bit lower, it would appear so:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2252699-covid-19-is-becoming-less-deadly-in-europe-but-we-dont-know-why/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 08, 2020, 10:01:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 08, 2020, 04:40:37 PM
1000 cases this week in Derry and Strabane . Twice as many as Belfast with 3 times less of a population.
Including myself I know of 25 others . I got positive result Sunday morning. My main symptoms are extreme fatigue. The fatigue comes on very suddenly. Sleeping during the day every day. No desire to do anything. But all other symptoms have gone except for mild mucous producing cough at night and heart palpitations.

Christ. Mind yourself and get well soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 09, 2020, 12:06:07 AM
Best wishes for a speedy recovery Fear Bun.
Hope all will be well after.


(PS some here might claim that you don't exist at all)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 09, 2020, 07:11:42 AM
How is your mother doing fear?

Interesting radiogaagaa.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 09, 2020, 08:52:20 AM
Thanks all..

Mother doing very well to date and she is in vulnerable group due to medication.. similarly to me she has a lot of fatigue.
Somebody asked about how I contracted it.
Can't be certain but pretty sure as follows. Work colleague went to house drinking session,home built bar, 8 lads at party. That was a sat. They were all sick by Tues. He was in work on Monday before symptoms began . After that it went through office, some other lads got it from him but refused to get tested as we don't get sick pay.
Small office,no masks, shared kettle and microwave.
There is that much of it in Derry atm that I'm pretty sure my mother contracted it somewhere else as our contact was almost non existent last week, possibly hairdressers
In my work environment is was almost an inevitability. It's just running through the factory now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TabClear on October 09, 2020, 09:54:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 09, 2020, 08:52:20 AM
Thanks all..

Mother doing very well to date and she is in vulnerable group due to medication.. similarly to me she has a lot of fatigue.
Somebody asked about how I contracted it.
Can't be certain but pretty sure as follows. Work colleague went to house drinking session,home built bar, 8 lads at party. That was a sat. They were all sick by Tues. He was in work on Monday before symptoms began . After that it went through office, some other lads got it from him but refused to get tested as we don't get sick pay.
Small office,no masks, shared kettle and microwave.
There is that much of it in Derry atm that I'm pretty sure my mother contracted it somewhere else as our contact was almost non existent last week, possibly hairdressers
In my work environment is was almost an inevitability. It's just running through the factory now.

Unfortunately this is a major cause of the uptick in my view. Its the same in my place, people are not willing to take the risk of 2 weeks no pay that could come from a positive test so are hiding symptoms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 10:03:33 AM
Quote from: TabClear on October 09, 2020, 09:54:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 09, 2020, 08:52:20 AM
Thanks all..

Mother doing very well to date and she is in vulnerable group due to medication.. similarly to me she has a lot of fatigue.
Somebody asked about how I contracted it.
Can't be certain but pretty sure as follows. Work colleague went to house drinking session,home built bar, 8 lads at party. That was a sat. They were all sick by Tues. He was in work on Monday before symptoms began . After that it went through office, some other lads got it from him but refused to get tested as we don't get sick pay.
Small office,no masks, shared kettle and microwave.
There is that much of it in Derry atm that I'm pretty sure my mother contracted it somewhere else as our contact was almost non existent last week, possibly hairdressers
In my work environment is was almost an inevitability. It's just running through the factory now.

Unfortunately this is a major cause of the uptick in my view. Its the same in my place, people are not willing to take the risk of 2 weeks no pay that could come from a positive test so are hiding symptoms.

This is were the Gov's need to, at the very least provide some cover when employers are not.. Though that will bring out the chancers, "your man was 1.99 meters from me for 10 seconds, I'm off"  free money for 2 weeks!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 09, 2020, 01:13:15 PM
too much of come into work unless your literally dying culture in this country
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Minder on October 09, 2020, 01:16:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 10:03:33 AM
Quote from: TabClear on October 09, 2020, 09:54:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 09, 2020, 08:52:20 AM
Thanks all..

Mother doing very well to date and she is in vulnerable group due to medication.. similarly to me she has a lot of fatigue.
Somebody asked about how I contracted it.
Can't be certain but pretty sure as follows. Work colleague went to house drinking session,home built bar, 8 lads at party. That was a sat. They were all sick by Tues. He was in work on Monday before symptoms began . After that it went through office, some other lads got it from him but refused to get tested as we don't get sick pay.
Small office,no masks, shared kettle and microwave.
There is that much of it in Derry atm that I'm pretty sure my mother contracted it somewhere else as our contact was almost non existent last week, possibly hairdressers
In my work environment is was almost an inevitability. It's just running through the factory now.

Unfortunately this is a major cause of the uptick in my view. Its the same in my place, people are not willing to take the risk of 2 weeks no pay that could come from a positive test so are hiding symptoms.

This is were the Gov's need to, at the very least provide some cover when employers are not.. Though that will bring out the chancers, "your man was 1.99 meters from me for 10 seconds, I'm off"  free money for 2 weeks!

They have introduced help in England this week of a payment of £500 (I think) if you have to self isolate and lose income as a result
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 09, 2020, 01:20:26 PM
Just the 70k daily new cases in India.

Always someone worse off lads.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on October 09, 2020, 02:04:10 PM
1080 new cases in the north.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on October 09, 2020, 02:14:31 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 09, 2020, 01:20:26 PM
Just the 70k daily new cases in India.

Always someone worse off lads.

How the f**k do you even start to collate that sort of data on a daily basis?

The UK cant do it with significantly less cases.

And having seen some parts of India that figure would be significantly higher if all cases were counted
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 09, 2020, 02:19:03 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on October 09, 2020, 02:04:10 PM
1080 new cases in the north.

😱
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 09, 2020, 02:44:45 PM
Jesus.

What's worse is that the number in hospital with it has been growing by double figures every day this week. That's from significantly less cases a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 09, 2020, 03:12:44 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 09, 2020, 02:44:45 PM
Jesus.

What's worse is that the number in hospital with it has been growing by double figures every day this week. That's from significantly less cases a few weeks ago.

It is going to be hard to turn this around, since they hae few measures except in Derry/Strabane. So the best hospitals can hope for is running at the pin of their collar.
However, I see today that London is introducing some business supports and perhaps Stormont can then extend the restrictions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on October 09, 2020, 03:27:11 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on October 09, 2020, 02:04:10 PM
1080 new cases in the north.

In my opinion, it's out of control here now.
The only way to stop the spread continuing to rise at this rate and protect the hospitals is a lock down. Not what I want or what anyone wants, but what other option is there?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 09, 2020, 03:28:18 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on October 09, 2020, 02:04:10 PM
1080 new cases in the north.
That's a good thing according to some people (not me)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 09, 2020, 03:30:22 PM
Yeah the horse has bolted on it unless these cases are just coming from one or two regions.

While I don't like the thought of a lockdown they didn't really change much bar how much you were fined yesterday. Given the extent of it you'd have expected something. I do suspect money from westminster is not forthcoming and has a part to play in it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 09, 2020, 03:56:37 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 08, 2020, 08:26:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 08, 2020, 09:44:10 AM

I know the virus was only officially detected on this island around the end of Feb but being realistic it was probably here in December or before, it has obviously been in existence in China months before it became apparent and its likely a domino effect to each new country it transmits to. By the time testing, tracing and knowledge of the virus, it's probably already embedded there for months

If you don't believe that it started in Wuhan in Dec, then why believe that it began in China at all? If it was around in Europe in say Nov, then there is currently no known origin

Because China was the first noted outbreak. If people are oblivious to it then the place where it first becomes apparent is likely the origin of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 09, 2020, 04:20:17 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on October 09, 2020, 03:27:11 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on October 09, 2020, 02:04:10 PM
1080 new cases in the north.

In my opinion, it's out of control here now.
The only way to stop the spread continuing to rise at this rate and protect the hospitals is a lock down. Not what I want or what anyone wants, but what other option is there?

None.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 09, 2020, 04:36:30 PM
The death rates in the next 5/6 weeks will tell us everything.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 09, 2020, 05:01:21 PM
Inpatients is growing a lot. A hell of a lot. It's not good,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 09, 2020, 06:16:58 PM
What clown in RTÉ thought it was a good idea to send a newscaster from Dublin  and reporter (or 2) from Belfast to Derry to tell us there is a large amount of Covid in Derry?
Highly irresponsible >:(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: MayoBuck on October 09, 2020, 06:27:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 09, 2020, 06:16:58 PM
What clown in RTÉ thought it was a good idea to send a newscaster from Dublin  and reporter (or 2) from Belfast to Derry to tell us there is a large amount of Covid in Derry?
Highly irresponsible >:(

Was thinking that myself. Bizarre!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on October 09, 2020, 06:39:20 PM
Was in hospital in Belfast yesterday for a quick procedure and the nurse said they are starting to get really busy with Covid patients.
Much busier than it was in March/April.

She felt that we didnt really get badly hit with the first wave and that it will be much worse over the coming weeks/months.

Desperately hoping she is wrong
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on October 09, 2020, 07:16:25 PM
I was one of the ones in March April saying that the numbers in hospital were nothing to worry about and the numbers were low
It didn't concern me
Now seeing the numbers I'm worried
This is concerning to say the least
More cases in the north in 9 day's than what we had in 6 months.
Worrying very worrying
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 09, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
What's the problem in the North? Is it non adherence to the wearing of masks?  Seems kids don't have to wear them in classrooms if they don't want to which seems a bit of a reckless policy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 09, 2020, 07:41:01 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on October 09, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
What's the problem in the North? Is it non adherence to the wearing of masks?  Seems kids don't have to wear them in classrooms if they don't want to which seems a bit of a reckless policy.

Heard stories of kids who wear masks in buses/classrooms/school corridor being teased by other kids.

I don't know why they're not made compulsory in all places. And for kids in shops too. Kids are at school, mixing with big numbers and are probably the one group that have the potential to spread the virus to the most people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: FermGael on October 09, 2020, 07:45:03 PM
I personally think in the North that universities are playing a large part on this .
Usually , in other parts of the world , when you head to university you stay there for the term. If you look at university cities in England like Newcastle, Liverpool, Nottingham etc they have all had large outbreaks but they can be localised to certain areas and don't seem to be extending to the wider population of the city .

It different in the North. It's all ready clear that covid has been spread among the student population in Belfast with most assymptomic.
The vast majority of students go to University Sunday til Friday and then go back home for the weekend to their parents and thus their local communities . I really think this has been one of the main drivers in the north .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on October 09, 2020, 07:47:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 09, 2020, 03:56:37 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 08, 2020, 08:26:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 08, 2020, 09:44:10 AM

I know the virus was only officially detected on this island around the end of Feb but being realistic it was probably here in December or before, it has obviously been in existence in China months before it became apparent and its likely a domino effect to each new country it transmits to. By the time testing, tracing and knowledge of the virus, it's probably already embedded there for months

If you don't believe that it started in Wuhan in Dec, then why believe that it began in China at all? If it was around in Europe in say Nov, then there is currently no known origin

Because China was the first noted outbreak. If people are oblivious to it then the place where it first becomes apparent is likely the origin of it.

That theory makes no sense
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 09, 2020, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 09, 2020, 06:39:20 PM
Was in hospital in Belfast yesterday for a quick procedure and the nurse said they are starting to get really busy with Covid patients.
Much busier than it was in March/April.

She felt that we didnt really get badly hit with the first wave and that it will be much worse over the coming weeks/months.

Desperately hoping she is wrong

Back in March, April with word of the virus many of the hypochondriacs cleared out of hospitals giving much needed room for covid patients. The same isn't happening now it seems.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 09, 2020, 07:53:03 PM
Fermgael I would agree with you. I was reading a thread on this subject on twitter saying the same thing. Small place so students flock home at weekends. Pretty much anywhere here is easily accessible do that can be done. England is a scale bigger.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on October 09, 2020, 09:50:16 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 09, 2020, 07:53:03 PM
Fermgael I would agree with you. I was reading a thread on this subject on twitter saying the same thing. Small place so students flock home at weekends. Pretty much anywhere here is easily accessible do that can be done. England is a scale bigger.

What is the reason behind the amount of high cases in Derry and Strabane - must be a reason specific reason?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 09:52:12 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 09, 2020, 09:50:16 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 09, 2020, 07:53:03 PM
Fermgael I would agree with you. I was reading a thread on this subject on twitter saying the same thing. Small place so students flock home at weekends. Pretty much anywhere here is easily accessible do that can be done. England is a scale bigger.

What is the reason behind the amount of high cases in Derry and Strabane - must be a reason specific reason?

Blame certainly can't be laid at the GAA's door, that's for sure
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 09, 2020, 09:54:02 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 09, 2020, 09:50:16 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 09, 2020, 07:53:03 PM
Fermgael I would agree with you. I was reading a thread on this subject on twitter saying the same thing. Small place so students flock home at weekends. Pretty much anywhere here is easily accessible do that can be done. England is a scale bigger.

What is the reason behind the amount of high cases in Derry and Strabane - must be a reason specific reason?

The bars were rammed this last 5 weeks, bars were firing out crisps and stew etc to say they were serving food. Very young population too, a lot of house parties
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on October 09, 2020, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 09, 2020, 09:54:02 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 09, 2020, 09:50:16 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 09, 2020, 07:53:03 PM
Fermgael I would agree with you. I was reading a thread on this subject on twitter saying the same thing. Small place so students flock home at weekends. Pretty much anywhere here is easily accessible do that can be done. England is a scale bigger.

What is the reason behind the amount of high cases in Derry and Strabane - must be a reason specific reason?

The bars were rammed this last 5 weeks, bars were firing out crisps and stew etc to say they were serving food. Very young population too, a lot of house parties

But would Belfast not be worse wirh all the bars and huge number of students at Queen's etc?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 09, 2020, 10:06:11 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 09, 2020, 10:02:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 09, 2020, 09:54:02 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 09, 2020, 09:50:16 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 09, 2020, 07:53:03 PM
Fermgael I would agree with you. I was reading a thread on this subject on twitter saying the same thing. Small place so students flock home at weekends. Pretty much anywhere here is easily accessible do that can be done. England is a scale bigger.

What is the reason behind the amount of high cases in Derry and Strabane - must be a reason specific reason?

The bars were rammed this last 5 weeks, bars were firing out crisps and stew etc to say they were serving food. Very young population too, a lot of house parties

But would Belfast not be worse wirh all the bars and huge number of students at Queen's etc?

They are probably all quarantined at Elms and rest sent home on the 212 every Friday to Derry. A lot of talk about first communion parties. Big young, Catholic, alcohol loving people down here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 09, 2020, 10:08:16 PM
Belfast is empty!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 10, 2020, 11:30:51 AM
The title of this trash "declaration" cracks me up

Climate Science Denial Network Behind Great Barrington Declaration
Nafeez Ahmed
9 October 2020

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/10/09/climate-science-denial-network-behind-great-barrington-declaration/

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 10, 2020, 01:08:07 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 09, 2020, 07:47:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 09, 2020, 03:56:37 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 08, 2020, 08:26:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 08, 2020, 09:44:10 AM

I know the virus was only officially detected on this island around the end of Feb but being realistic it was probably here in December or before, it has obviously been in existence in China months before it became apparent and its likely a domino effect to each new country it transmits to. By the time testing, tracing and knowledge of the virus, it's probably already embedded there for months

If you don't believe that it started in Wuhan in Dec, then why believe that it began in China at all? If it was around in Europe in say Nov, then there is currently no known origin

Because China was the first noted outbreak. If people are oblivious to it then the place where it first becomes apparent is likely the origin of it.

That theory makes no sense

It makes complete sense, how can you not get that?

The origin of the virus is the most likely place where it will spread and where large numbers will contract it and it first become noticed. There is probably a 2/3 month time lag (maybe longer) though in the virus being in the community and it not being recognised as something we have not seen before.

The virus was around a long time before December. It was recorded in France in December.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/french-hospital-discovers-it-had-case-of-coronavirus-in-december-1.4245275
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 10, 2020, 02:22:52 PM
A further 902 cases up north.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 10, 2020, 03:04:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 10, 2020, 02:22:52 PM
A further 902 cases up north.

I read on Twitter yesterday that there were 8 ICU beds unoccupied in the north. That's pretty scary to be honest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Minder on October 10, 2020, 03:09:29 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 10, 2020, 03:04:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 10, 2020, 02:22:52 PM
A further 902 cases up north.

I read on Twitter yesterday that there were 8 ICU beds unoccupied in the north. That's pretty scary to be honest.

99 ICU bed capacity, 19 Covid related in ICU & 18 unoccupied ICU beds
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 10, 2020, 03:50:45 PM
Kim Jong Un says not a single person in North Korea has contracted coronavirus, wishes South a fast recovery. 

Good honest man is Kim.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 10, 2020, 04:16:18 PM
Cases in Derry have almost doubled  last week compared to previous week and almost one fifth of tests are positive.
Mid Ulster coming up fast, Newry and Mourne still increasing but not as quickly.

Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 10, 2020, 03:50:45 PM
Kim Jong Un says not a single person in North Korea has contracted coronavirus, wishes South a fast recovery. 

Good honest man is Kim.

If they suspect a case they probably shoot the whole town.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on October 10, 2020, 04:31:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2020, 04:16:18 PM
Cases in Derry have almost doubled  last week compared to previous week and almost one fifth of tests are positive.
Mid Ulster coming up fast, Newry and Mourne still increasing but not as quickly.

Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 10, 2020, 03:50:45 PM
Kim Jong Un says not a single person in North Korea has contracted coronavirus, wishes South a fast recovery. 

Good honest man is Kim.

If they suspect a case they probably shoot the whole town.

We shouldn't mock. We put a guy who was up to his neck in cervical smear scandal in charge of our covid response and laud him as a hero.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on October 10, 2020, 04:34:28 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 10, 2020, 04:31:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2020, 04:16:18 PM
Cases in Derry have almost doubled  last week compared to previous week and almost one fifth of tests are positive.
Mid Ulster coming up fast, Newry and Mourne still increasing but not as quickly.

Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 10, 2020, 03:50:45 PM
Kim Jong Un says not a single person in North Korea has contracted coronavirus, wishes South a fast recovery. 

Good honest man is Kim.

If they suspect a case they probably shoot the whole town.

We shouldn't mock. We put a guy who was up to his neck in cervical smear scandal in charge of our covid response and laud him as a hero.

Plus Trump & Boris - hardly upstanding characters!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 10, 2020, 04:50:04 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 10, 2020, 04:31:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2020, 04:16:18 PM
Cases in Derry have almost doubled  last week compared to previous week and almost one fifth of tests are positive.
Mid Ulster coming up fast, Newry and Mourne still increasing but not as quickly.

Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 10, 2020, 03:50:45 PM
Kim Jong Un says not a single person in North Korea has contracted coronavirus, wishes South a fast recovery. 

Good honest man is Kim.

If they suspect a case they probably shoot the whole town.

We shouldn't mock. We put a guy who was up to his neck in cervical smear scandal in charge of our covid response and laud him as a hero.

That's not really fair comment. The legalistic approach of the State to such things isn't only down to one man, nor does the CMO oversee the operation of the HSE.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 10, 2020, 06:55:31 PM
1012 new cases in the 26 counties today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 10, 2020, 07:06:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 10, 2020, 06:55:31 PM
1012 new cases in the 26 counties today.

Sligo has done really well here, they had few cases before and although places not far away like north Roscommon, Donegal and Fermanagh have more cases, they are still very low.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on October 10, 2020, 07:44:16 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 10, 2020, 06:55:31 PM
1012 new cases in the 26 counties today.

Back to weekly case count of late April.

Carlow, Leitrim, Mayo, Kilkenny, Longford, Offaly, Sligo, Westmeath, Tipperary, Waterford the counties with between 17 to 99 cases over the last two weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on October 10, 2020, 08:26:23 PM
Back up to over 1000 cases what a disaster. The virus does not appear to be killing as many people this time around. Why is that? The old are not catchinng it as much in nursing homes? They are better at treating it? The virus has changed to a less lethal more contagious strain?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on October 10, 2020, 08:30:14 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 10, 2020, 01:08:07 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 09, 2020, 07:47:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 09, 2020, 03:56:37 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 08, 2020, 08:26:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 08, 2020, 09:44:10 AM

I know the virus was only officially detected on this island around the end of Feb but being realistic it was probably here in December or before, it has obviously been in existence in China months before it became apparent and its likely a domino effect to each new country it transmits to. By the time testing, tracing and knowledge of the virus, it's probably already embedded there for months

If you don't believe that it started in Wuhan in Dec, then why believe that it began in China at all? If it was around in Europe in say Nov, then there is currently no known origin

Because China was the first noted outbreak. If people are oblivious to it then the place where it first becomes apparent is likely the origin of it.

That theory makes no sense

It makes complete sense, how can you not get that?

The origin of the virus is the most likely place where it will spread and where large numbers will contract it and it first become noticed. There is probably a 2/3 month time lag (maybe longer) though in the virus being in the community and it not being recognised as something we have not seen before.

The virus was around a long time before December. It was recorded in France in December.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/french-hospital-discovers-it-had-case-of-coronavirus-in-december-1.4245275

Is this an actual theory or just something you've come up with yourself?

As I said, it makes no sense, if the virus started earlier than it's currently believed to then there's nothing to tie it to Wuhan or China. Other than your supposition that it "must have", there's no evidence of that. If what you're saying is true, then there wouldn't have been such a lag between the first cases discovered in China and the first cases discovered in Europe.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 10, 2020, 08:39:59 PM
A lot of very vocal social media opinion seemed to be behind Leo Varadkar last Monday

I wonder if that's still the case

I suspect not

Populism doesn't work

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 10, 2020, 09:00:01 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on October 10, 2020, 08:26:23 PM
Back up to over 1000 cases what a disaster. The virus does not appear to be killing as many people this time around. Why is that? The old are not catchinng it as much in nursing homes? They are better at treating it? The virus has changed to a less lethal more contagious strain?

Could be because there's alot more testing now than what there was in April. ie. We didn't really have 1000 daily cases in April, we had 5000 but they weren't picked up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 10, 2020, 10:17:17 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 10, 2020, 09:00:01 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on October 10, 2020, 08:26:23 PM
Back up to over 1000 cases what a disaster. The virus does not appear to be killing as many people this time around. Why is that? The old are not catchinng it as much in nursing homes? They are better at treating it? The virus has changed to a less lethal more contagious strain?

Could be because there's alot more testing now than what there was in April. ie. We didn't really have 1000 daily cases in April, we had 5000 but they weren't picked up.

This is true in the North, but only partly true in the South.
It seems that about 0.5% of people are dying, and so 5 will die in 3 weeks time after today's figures.
There are numerous stories of people going about spreading the thing while waiting for the results of tests ,which is grossly irresponsible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 11, 2020, 12:27:39 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on October 10, 2020, 08:26:23 PM
Back up to over 1000 cases what a disaster.
900 cases in the 6 Counties, equivalent of about 2,300 cases in the 26.
Yet apart from Derry/Strabane it's full steam ahead in the rest of it.
Irresponsible or what?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2020, 12:49:08 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 11, 2020, 12:27:39 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on October 10, 2020, 08:26:23 PM
Back up to over 1000 cases what a disaster.
900 cases in the 6 Counties, equivalent of about 2,300 cases in the 26.
Yet apart from Derry/Strabane it's full steam ahead in the rest of it.
Irresponsible or what?

It may seem full steam ahead but Belfast is quite deserted... no one wants to go into town
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 11, 2020, 01:02:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2020, 10:17:17 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 10, 2020, 09:00:01 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on October 10, 2020, 08:26:23 PM
Back up to over 1000 cases what a disaster. The virus does not appear to be killing as many people this time around. Why is that? The old are not catchinng it as much in nursing homes? They are better at treating it? The virus has changed to a less lethal more contagious strain?

Could be because there's alot more testing now than what there was in April. ie. We didn't really have 1000 daily cases in April, we had 5000 but they weren't picked up.

This is true in the North, but only partly true in the South.
It seems that about 0.5% of people are dying, and so 5 will die in 3 weeks time after today's figures.
There are numerous stories of people going about spreading the thing while waiting for the results of tests ,which is grossly irresponsible.

I've spoken with health professionals in the last week who have seen people in the North-West out and about who have recently tested positive. Some people just don't give a hoot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 11, 2020, 02:48:08 AM
People out and about is why fines are needed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 11, 2020, 09:11:10 AM
Republic new infections higher than North's now.
Covid senior hurling
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on October 11, 2020, 09:29:47 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 11, 2020, 09:11:10 AM
Republic new infections higher than North's now.
Covid senior hurling

Comparsions are silly - my da is bigger than your da type stuff.  Makes no difference. It is what it is.

It should have, and still should be based on an all island basis.  Like foot and foot a good few years ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 11, 2020, 09:49:14 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2020, 02:48:08 AM
People out and about is why fines are needed.

Big time. Should have happened weeks ago
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 11, 2020, 11:11:30 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 10, 2020, 08:30:14 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 10, 2020, 01:08:07 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 09, 2020, 07:47:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 09, 2020, 03:56:37 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 08, 2020, 08:26:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 08, 2020, 09:44:10 AM

I know the virus was only officially detected on this island around the end of Feb but being realistic it was probably here in December or before, it has obviously been in existence in China months before it became apparent and its likely a domino effect to each new country it transmits to. By the time testing, tracing and knowledge of the virus, it's probably already embedded there for months

If you don't believe that it started in Wuhan in Dec, then why believe that it began in China at all? If it was around in Europe in say Nov, then there is currently no known origin

Because China was the first noted outbreak. If people are oblivious to it then the place where it first becomes apparent is likely the origin of it.

That theory makes no sense

It makes complete sense, how can you not get that?

The origin of the virus is the most likely place where it will spread and where large numbers will contract it and it first become noticed. There is probably a 2/3 month time lag (maybe longer) though in the virus being in the community and it not being recognised as something we have not seen before.

The virus was around a long time before December. It was recorded in France in December.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/french-hospital-discovers-it-had-case-of-coronavirus-in-december-1.4245275

Is this an actual theory or just something you've come up with yourself?

As I said, it makes no sense, if the virus started earlier than it's currently believed to then there's nothing to tie it to Wuhan or China. Other than your supposition that it "must have", there's no evidence of that. If what you're saying is true, then there wouldn't have been such a lag between the first cases discovered in China and the first cases discovered in Europe.

I pity any teacher that ever had you.

The virus first came to prominence in China, in Wuhan, the first death from it was announced in January but they have traced back positive cases of Covid to mid November.

Similarly France recorded the first Covid death in mid Feb but have subsequently traced back positive tests to December.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/french-hospital-discovers-it-had-case-of-coronavirus-in-december-1.4245275

So it's clear as day Covid was in circulation months before anyone even knew about it, the likeliest place the virus originated and spread is the point of origin of its outbreak. Wuhan was the first place where it surged and that began to happen around early January but we now know it was in circulation in mid November in China and most likely before that.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/first-covid-19-case-happened-in-november-china-government-records-show-report

I think the first positive case on this island was late Feb? Are you naive enough to think that the first person to test positive for the virus on this island was actually the first person to bring it here when many people can be asymptomatic, when there was no testing, tracking or tracing systems in place, where very limited details of the symptoms and signs of Covid were available beforehand? The logical thing to expect is that the virus arrived in the country months before the first positive case.

The vast majority of people will probably be asymptomatic or suffer mild symptoms similar to a cold or chest infection if they get it. If anyone did get it in December or did get it in January, they would most likely have put it down as a cold or flu and not passed much heed. The bottom line is that we don't know but logic and precedent will tell you that it's highly likely it was here a considerable time before the first positive test.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 11, 2020, 11:24:01 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2020, 07:06:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 10, 2020, 06:55:31 PM
1012 new cases in the 26 counties today.

Sligo has done really well here, they had few cases before and although places not far away like north Roscommon, Donegal and Fermanagh have more cases, they are still very low.

Fermanagh was probably doing as well as Sligo up until a fortnight ago.

All it needs is a small outbreak and its off.

The next 5/6 weeks will tell us a lot in the north. We've had double the cases in the past fortnight as we had in the past 6 months so if the deaths 5/6 weeks on are far lower than the deaths we had back then, it's either one of two things:

A) A lot, lot more people were infected with Covid in the first wave without knowing and we could be a lot closer to "herd immunity" than we realise (if we knew where we stood on immunity - thanks science)
B) The virus is not as potent or as fatal as some of the doom merchants make out. In this case, it has to be all about protecting the vulnerable and elderly and an onus on those who have people in that category to be very vigilant. The likelihood is that for the majority of the population it will be no worse than a flu or head cold.

We live with seasonal flu as it is, you can get a bad dose of it, you can be a few months from it before you can get back to 100%, in some cases even if you're fit and healthy you can develop pneumonia, end up being hospitalised and in extreme cases, it can take your life but the chances of that are very remote and we live with the flu.

I'm no expert but when you hear consistently how conflicted and wrong the experts have called this so far then you will have lost all hope in them, their advice and their so called knowledge.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 11, 2020, 11:39:44 AM
Quote from: marty34 on October 11, 2020, 09:29:47 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 11, 2020, 09:11:10 AM
Republic new infections higher than North's now.
Covid senior hurling

Comparsions are silly - my da is bigger than your da type stuff.  Makes no difference. It is what it is.

It should have, and still should be based on an all island basis.  Like foot and foot a good few years ago.

Few sad men political point scoring over a seemingly uncontrollable virus on this thread alright.

Well said.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2020, 11:51:18 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 11, 2020, 11:24:01 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2020, 07:06:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 10, 2020, 06:55:31 PM
1012 new cases in the 26 counties today.

Sligo has done really well here, they had few cases before and although places not far away like north Roscommon, Donegal and Fermanagh have more cases, they are still very low.

Fermanagh was probably doing as well as Sligo up until a fortnight ago.

All it needs is a small outbreak and its off.

The next 5/6 weeks will tell us a lot in the north. We've had double the cases in the past fortnight as we had in the past 6 months so if the deaths 5/6 weeks on are far lower than the deaths we had back then, it's either one of two things:

A) A lot, lot more people were infected with Covid in the first wave without knowing and we could be a lot closer to "herd immunity" than we realise (if we knew where we stood on immunity - thanks science)
B) The virus is not as potent or as fatal as some of the doom merchants make out. In this case, it has to be all about protecting the vulnerable and elderly and an onus on those who have people in that category to be very vigilant. The likelihood is that for the majority of the population it will be no worse than a flu or head cold.

We live with seasonal flu as it is, you can get a bad dose of it, you can be a few months from it before you can get back to 100%, in some cases even if you're fit and healthy you can develop pneumonia, end up being hospitalised and in extreme cases, it can take your life but the chances of that are very remote and we live with the flu.

I'm no expert but when you hear consistently how conflicted and wrong the experts have called this so far then you will have lost all hope in them, their advice and their so called knowledge.

correct, you are no expert..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 11, 2020, 11:54:38 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 11, 2020, 02:10:40 PM
1,066 NI cases, 1 death today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 11, 2020, 02:45:51 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 11, 2020, 11:51:18 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 11, 2020, 11:24:01 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 10, 2020, 07:06:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 10, 2020, 06:55:31 PM
1012 new cases in the 26 counties today.

Sligo has done really well here, they had few cases before and although places not far away like north Roscommon, Donegal and Fermanagh have more cases, they are still very low.

Fermanagh was probably doing as well as Sligo up until a fortnight ago.

All it needs is a small outbreak and its off.

The next 5/6 weeks will tell us a lot in the north. We've had double the cases in the past fortnight as we had in the past 6 months so if the deaths 5/6 weeks on are far lower than the deaths we had back then, it's either one of two things:

A) A lot, lot more people were infected with Covid in the first wave without knowing and we could be a lot closer to "herd immunity" than we realise (if we knew where we stood on immunity - thanks science)
B) The virus is not as potent or as fatal as some of the doom merchants make out. In this case, it has to be all about protecting the vulnerable and elderly and an onus on those who have people in that category to be very vigilant. The likelihood is that for the majority of the population it will be no worse than a flu or head cold.

We live with seasonal flu as it is, you can get a bad dose of it, you can be a few months from it before you can get back to 100%, in some cases even if you're fit and healthy you can develop pneumonia, end up being hospitalised and in extreme cases, it can take your life but the chances of that are very remote and we live with the flu.

I'm no expert but when you hear consistently how conflicted and wrong the experts have called this so far then you will have lost all hope in them, their advice and their so called knowledge.

correct, you are no expert..

Me along with everyone else.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on October 11, 2020, 03:36:01 PM
My nephew is one of the statistics. School spread (Belfast). My sis and her family now getting tested. He is asymptomatic. She he and his sister attend the school my sis teaches at.

Thankfully we haven't seen them in wks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 11, 2020, 03:49:46 PM
Quote from: Rois on October 11, 2020, 03:36:01 PM
My nephew is one of the statistics. School spread (Belfast). My sis and her family now getting tested. He is asymptomatic. She he and his sister attend the school my sis teaches at.

Thankfully we haven't seen them in wks.
Did he have a reason to be tested if had no symptoms? The wife knows a man who had to get tested before a minor op and came back positive with no symptoms and he's in his 60s.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 11, 2020, 04:11:49 PM
Czech republic have one of the worst infection rates in Europe over the last few weeks. In the summer they were doing this.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53244688
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 11, 2020, 04:53:43 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 11, 2020, 04:11:49 PM
Czech republic have one of the worst infection rates in Europe over the last few weeks. In the summer they were doing this.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53244688

The Czechs may have been blatant about it, but a lot of people were carrying on as if the virus was already gone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on October 11, 2020, 05:37:33 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 11, 2020, 03:49:46 PM
Quote from: Rois on October 11, 2020, 03:36:01 PM
My nephew is one of the statistics. School spread (Belfast). My sis and her family now getting tested. He is asymptomatic. She he and his sister attend the school my sis teaches at.

Thankfully we haven't seen them in wks.
Did he have a reason to be tested if had no symptoms? The wife knows a man who had to get tested before a minor op and came back positive with no symptoms and he's in his 60s.
His friend tested positive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 11, 2020, 05:40:28 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54500673

Maybe can ease the blame on certain sectors and blame to those who may or may not wear masks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 11, 2020, 05:45:56 PM
Large school in Derry City now closed for a week in an effort to stop the rapid spread. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on October 11, 2020, 06:28:03 PM
Quote from: Rois on October 11, 2020, 05:37:33 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 11, 2020, 03:49:46 PM
Quote from: Rois on October 11, 2020, 03:36:01 PM
My nephew is one of the statistics. School spread (Belfast). My sis and her family now getting tested. He is asymptomatic. She he and his sister attend the school my sis teaches at.

Thankfully we haven't seen them in wks.
Did he have a reason to be tested if had no symptoms? The wife knows a man who had to get tested before a minor op and came back positive with no symptoms and he's in his 60s.
His friend tested positive.

I thought the advice for any of them is to self isolate & not get tested, and self isolate regardless of test result ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 11, 2020, 06:28:26 PM
What I said last Sunday.

Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 04, 2020, 07:15:40 PM
Highest weekly number of cases since April 20th to 26th when it was 4,011 that week. (hopefully that number isn't topped that by next Sunday)


Sadly it's topped it by some distance.

Weekly number for ROI.

Cases - 4510 (1439 more cases than last week)
Reported deaths - 17 ( same as last week)

No testing figure given out on a Sunday but yesterday we had close to 10,000 more tests than the week before.

In hospital  201( 67 more than this time last week)
In ICU 30. ( 9 more than last Sunday)

Hard to see much improvement for the week ahead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 11, 2020, 06:36:17 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 11, 2020, 06:28:26 PM
What I said last Sunday.

Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 04, 2020, 07:15:40 PM
Highest weekly number of cases since April 20th to 26th when it was 4,011 that week. (hopefully that number isn't topped that by next Sunday)


Sadly it's topped it by some distance.

Weekly number for ROI.

Cases - 4510 (1439 more cases than last week)
Reported deaths - 17 ( same as last week)

No testing figure given out on a Sunday but yesterday we had close to 10,000 more tests than the week before.

In hospital  201( 67 more than this time last week)
In ICU 30. ( 9 more than last Sunday)

Hard to see much improvement for the week ahead.

All those numbers are up by almost half in a week, that is an unsustainable level of growth. Perhaps the level 3 will cut into the growth, but you still have a high level left.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 11, 2020, 06:47:15 PM
Derry/Strabane/Donegal in big bother if the mindset doesn't change.  There are some signs of a shift over the last 4-5 days but expect rises for another week at the very least.  Level 4 not far away probably and 'circuit breaker' may be used sooner, even before Halloween?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 11, 2020, 06:59:50 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 11, 2020, 06:28:03 PM
Quote from: Rois on October 11, 2020, 05:37:33 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 11, 2020, 03:49:46 PM
Quote from: Rois on October 11, 2020, 03:36:01 PM
My nephew is one of the statistics. School spread (Belfast). My sis and her family now getting tested. He is asymptomatic. She he and his sister attend the school my sis teaches at.

Thankfully we haven't seen them in wks.
Did he have a reason to be tested if had no symptoms? The wife knows a man who had to get tested before a minor op and came back positive with no symptoms and he's in his 60s.
His friend tested positive.

I thought the advice for any of them is to self isolate & not get tested, and self isolate regardless of test result ?
It is. You are only supposed to test if symptomatic but I'd say lots of people have been ignoring that advice, which is why the test centres were overrun at the start of the school year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 11, 2020, 07:03:35 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 06:59:19 PM
A few schools in Belfast closing for a couple of days this week to be deep cleaned. I think schools are in a bit of bother. Numbers are rising at an alarming rate, pupils heading into isolation in their hundreds. I think they're struggling to keep staff & pupils safe. Abandoning social distancing in schools is coming home to roost I fear.

Numbers started to creep up as schools returned yet we don't talk about that. Look over there - communion parties, university students, football matches. Not schools, no definitely not.
Aye it was always destined to be a clusterfuck. The fundamental flaw in all these school support bubbles is the presumption that everyone goes home and behaves sensibly and comes in the next day to their bubble, thereby creating a closed system. But we can see when you go out the door that is not the case. At what point is a school sustainable when multiple year groups are isolating?! This is only getting worse over winter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 07:15:13 PM
As a parent I'd be lookin for staff and management to do their jobs better and enforce the rules. Shut downs can be minimised better imo.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 07:18:09 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 07:17:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 07:15:13 PM
As a parent I'd be lookin for staff and management to do their jobs better and enforce the rules. Shut downs can be minimised better imo.
Enforce what rules?

Bubbles and masks. It ain't happening in a lot of schools unfortunately. No staggered breaks too in a lot of cases. Very frustrating for parents
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 11, 2020, 07:23:48 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 07:15:13 PM
As a parent I'd be lookin for staff and management to do their jobs better and enforce the rules. Shut downs can be minimised better imo.
I agree, but also the school bubbles/zones are very different from 'house/family' bubbles, which can be quite robust/secure.  In schools this is compromised by all bubbles mixing on school transport twice a day, not to mention the 18th birthday parties which have been a big driver amongst the Year 14s apparently - the most affected cohort in schools, it appears.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 07:27:46 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 11, 2020, 07:23:48 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 07:15:13 PM
As a parent I'd be lookin for staff and management to do their jobs better and enforce the rules. Shut downs can be minimised better imo.
I agree, but also the school bubbles/zones are very different from 'house/family' bubbles, which can be quite robust/secure.  In schools this is compromised by all bubbles mixing on school transport twice a day, not to mention the 18th birthday parties which have been a big driver amongst the Year 14s apparently - the most affected cohort in schools, it appears.

Yeah, those situations present problems, the buses aren't enforcing the masks. I suppose it underlines how everyone needs to do their part to best of their ability. I don't think a lot of secondary level schools are however
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 11, 2020, 07:32:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 07:18:09 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 07:17:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 07:15:13 PM
As a parent I'd be lookin for staff and management to do their jobs better and enforce the rules. Shut downs can be minimised better imo.
Enforce what rules?

Bubbles and masks. It ain't happening in a lot of schools unfortunately. No staggered breaks too in a lot of cases. Very frustrating for parents

Under 13s do not have to wear a mask. The rest only are required to wear one going to and from a class in corridors.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 07:37:07 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 11, 2020, 07:32:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 07:18:09 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 07:17:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 07:15:13 PM
As a parent I'd be lookin for staff and management to do their jobs better and enforce the rules. Shut downs can be minimised better imo.
Enforce what rules?

Bubbles and masks. It ain't happening in a lot of schools unfortunately. No staggered breaks too in a lot of cases. Very frustrating for parents

Under 13s do not have to wear a mask. The rest only are required to wear one going to and from a class in corridors.

I know and unfortunately it isn't happening here in Derry
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on October 11, 2020, 07:50:22 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 11, 2020, 06:47:15 PM
Derry/Strabane/Donegal in big bother if the mindset doesn't change.  There are some signs of a shift over the last 4-5 days but expect rises for another week at the very least.  Level 4 not far away probably and 'circuit breaker' may be used sooner, even before Halloween?

I'd say so.  Halloween break is 2 weeks away. Speed is of the essence. If cases keeps going until then, the ICU's will be under pressure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on October 11, 2020, 07:56:00 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 06:59:19 PM
A few schools in Belfast closing for a couple of days this week to be deep cleaned. I think schools are in a bit of bother. Numbers are rising at an alarming rate, pupils heading into isolation in their hundreds. I think they're struggling to keep staff & pupils safe. Abandoning social distancing in schools is coming home to roost I fear.

Numbers started to creep up as schools returned yet we don't talk about that. Look over there - communion parties, university students, football matches. Not schools, no definitely not.

How can you keep pupils 2m away from each other in a class?  Impossible, especially for the younger classes.

All this effort of keeping kids in their class based bubbles....and then when the bell rings, they all jumo on different buses for a half hour plus journey home.

Not to mention after school they meet up with their pals from different schools etc.

Schools and teachers etc. can only do so much.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2020, 07:56:27 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 11, 2020, 07:50:22 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 11, 2020, 06:47:15 PM
Derry/Strabane/Donegal in big bother if the mindset doesn't change.  There are some signs of a shift over the last 4-5 days but expect rises for another week at the very least.  Level 4 not far away probably and 'circuit breaker' may be used sooner, even before Halloween?

I'd say so.  Halloween break is 2 weeks away. Speed is of the essence. If cases keeps going until then, the ICU's will be under pressure.

Will they? We've lost over 500 people in the north since March. With the rate of infection currently in past 2/3 weeks there should be at the very least a 1000 deaths
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on October 11, 2020, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 07:27:46 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 11, 2020, 07:23:48 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 07:15:13 PM
As a parent I'd be lookin for staff and management to do their jobs better and enforce the rules. Shut downs can be minimised better imo.
I agree, but also the school bubbles/zones are very different from 'house/family' bubbles, which can be quite robust/secure.  In schools this is compromised by all bubbles mixing on school transport twice a day, not to mention the 18th birthday parties which have been a big driver amongst the Year 14s apparently - the most affected cohort in schools, it appears.

Yeah, those situations present problems, the buses aren't enforcing the masks. I suppose it underlines how everyone needs to do their part to best of their ability. I don't think a lot of secondary level schools are however

In fairness, a bus driver's job is to drive the bus in a safe manner etc., not to look around and see who's or who is not wearing a mask.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on October 11, 2020, 08:13:02 PM
Is it spreading in schools, obviously a couple getting it and a few hundred then having to self isolate isn't good for anyone but is there spreading in schools ? I haven't seen any evidence of it yet
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2020, 08:16:37 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 11, 2020, 08:13:02 PM
Is it spreading in schools, obviously a couple getting it and a few hundred then having to self isolate isn't good for anyone but is there spreading in schools ? I haven't seen any evidence of it yet

But what about the argument for keeping schools open right through this? We'd a few posters that were adamant school kids couldn't pass infections.. oh how we laughed Smufy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 11, 2020, 08:22:09 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 11, 2020, 08:13:02 PM
Is it spreading in schools, obviously a couple getting it and a few hundred then having to self isolate isn't good for anyone but is there spreading in schools ? I haven't seen any evidence of it yet
Up until a week or so ago, I would have said no - most cases were in a sense 'community transmission' - being brought into schools.  That has now shifted and there is clear pupil to pupil transmission.  Students who have no other contact but seated in proximity at school.  The 'evidence' will probably be very difficult to get from PHA as schools are under severe governmental pressure to remain open.  Student to teacher infection has also taken place and teacher to teacher.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on October 11, 2020, 08:23:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2020, 08:16:37 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 11, 2020, 08:13:02 PM
Is it spreading in schools, obviously a couple getting it and a few hundred then having to self isolate isn't good for anyone but is there spreading in schools ? I haven't seen any evidence of it yet

But what about the argument for keeping schools open right through this? We'd a few posters that were adamant school kids couldn't pass infections.. oh how we laughed Smufy

Any schools I know of are running into problems with 4th year and up are having to self isolate as close contacts as they are mixing subjects (bubble out the window I assume) not school kids getting it in school and passing it on. I just haven't heard of it being spread in schools
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on October 11, 2020, 08:24:54 PM
Obviously not here but interesting nonetheless


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/schools-arent-superspreaders/616669/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 11, 2020, 08:26:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 07:18:09 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 07:17:11 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 07:15:13 PM
As a parent I'd be lookin for staff and management to do their jobs better and enforce the rules. Shut downs can be minimised better imo.
Enforce what rules?

Bubbles and masks. It ain't happening in a lot of schools unfortunately. No staggered breaks too in a lot of cases. Very frustrating for parents

Bubbles of bullshit!

They would never work. Perhaps in a very small percentage of schools where kids don't get busses, but where they do, the bubble approach was never going to work.

It was said at the time. It was ignored at the time.

As usual, politicians and stupid civil servants blowing smoke up people's asses. Well, a pandemic tends to show up f**kwits for what they are - f**kwits.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on October 11, 2020, 08:27:48 PM
Milltown has any young school child in Ireland had a serious Covid condition or even had to be hospitalised? Not 1
Not a single school child in Ireland yes Ireland has been admitted to hospital
Yes close up shop
Not
Sweden on the other hand who kept schools open are all but over it
Crowds being allowed back into venues all over Europe but here and the shit show UK going the other way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 11, 2020, 08:28:18 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 11, 2020, 08:23:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2020, 08:16:37 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 11, 2020, 08:13:02 PM
Is it spreading in schools, obviously a couple getting it and a few hundred then having to self isolate isn't good for anyone but is there spreading in schools ? I haven't seen any evidence of it yet

But what about the argument for keeping schools open right through this? We'd a few posters that were adamant school kids couldn't pass infections.. oh how we laughed Smufy

Any schools I know of are running into problems with 4th year and up are having to self isolate as close contacts as they are mixing subjects (bubble out the window I assume) not school kids getting it in school and passing it on. I just haven't heard of it being spread in schools
You have now!  See above - it is now being spread in schools, mainly in the age-group you mention, but also from students to teachers in younger age groups. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 11, 2020, 08:28:29 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 11, 2020, 08:13:02 PM
Is it spreading in schools, obviously a couple getting it and a few hundred then having to self isolate isn't good for anyone but is there spreading in schools ? I haven't seen any evidence of it yet

*facepalm*

Please outline how someone could spread it to a dozen others in a pub yet not possible for it to spread in a classroom.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on October 11, 2020, 08:30:25 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 11, 2020, 08:28:29 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 11, 2020, 08:13:02 PM
Is it spreading in schools, obviously a couple getting it and a few hundred then having to self isolate isn't good for anyone but is there spreading in schools ? I haven't seen any evidence of it yet

*facepalm*

Please outline how someone could spread it to a dozen others in a pub yet not possible for it to spread in a classroom.

Do people still do the facepalm thing ?

Who said it can't happen ? Read my posts again, only slower this time
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 11, 2020, 08:31:06 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 11, 2020, 08:24:54 PM
Obviously not here but interesting nonetheless


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/schools-arent-superspreaders/616669/

Sorry, for political reasons, most US schools are keeping any information under lock and key.

The primary source for that work is not trustworthy.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/world/middleeast/coronavirus-israel-schools-reopen.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 11, 2020, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on October 11, 2020, 08:27:48 PM
Milltown has any young school child in Ireland had a serious Covid condition or even had to be hospitalised? Not 1

So when they take it home and pass it to granny & granda?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 11, 2020, 08:36:37 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on October 11, 2020, 08:27:48 PM
Milltown has any young school child in Ireland had a serious Covid condition or even had to be hospitalised? Not 1
Not a single school child in Ireland yes Ireland has been admitted to hospital
Yes close up shop
Not
Sweden on the other hand who kept schools open are all but over it
Crowds being allowed back into venues all over Europe but here and the shit show UK going the other way.
Yes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on October 11, 2020, 08:38:02 PM
Restor show me??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 11, 2020, 08:41:05 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 11, 2020, 08:36:37 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on October 11, 2020, 08:27:48 PM
Milltown has any young school child in Ireland had a serious Covid condition or even had to be hospitalised? Not 1
Not a single school child in Ireland yes Ireland has been admitted to hospital
Yes close up shop
Not
Sweden on the other hand who kept schools open are all but over it
Crowds being allowed back into venues all over Europe but here and the shit show UK going the other way.
Yes.

Smurfy obviously didn't see the lad on the Late Late show Friday night. 12 days on a ventilator for a healthy 17 year old.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 11, 2020, 08:43:09 PM
Fundamentally, any enclosed poorly ventilated space is ripe for spreading an airborne disease.

That can include homes, restaurants, pubs, office spaces, classrooms, planes, trains and buses.


No amount of bullsh|t and waffle is gonna change that. Even the 2m distance thing is largely irrelevant if your sitting a 5m away from someone (unknowingly) spreading viral particles for 8hrs in the working day. Its the usual. Politicians repeat the 2m mantra without having a clue about the context of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: FermGael on October 11, 2020, 09:09:19 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 08:43:47 PM
I just think that if we keep doing what we're doing, schools will be closing every farts end for a deep clean, pupils will be in and out of school on some sort of conveyor belt of isolation and eventually schools will start struggling with staffing. The thing that we want to avoid (kids out of school) is naturally occurring and we keep burying our heads and ignoring the very obvious problem.

That's all ready happening in schools.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 11, 2020, 09:16:42 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 09:13:11 PM
Quote from: FermGael on October 11, 2020, 09:09:19 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 08:43:47 PM
I just think that if we keep doing what we're doing, schools will be closing every farts end for a deep clean, pupils will be in and out of school on some sort of conveyor belt of isolation and eventually schools will start struggling with staffing. The thing that we want to avoid (kids out of school) is naturally occurring and we keep burying our heads and ignoring the very obvious problem.

That's all ready happening in schools.
I know and it's only going one way.

I think in secondary schools they should think of some sort of morning/afternoon shift or alternate days to mitigate the problem.  Better half your classes in a physical school than none.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 11, 2020, 09:34:32 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 11, 2020, 08:36:37 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on October 11, 2020, 08:27:48 PM
Milltown has any young school child in Ireland had a serious Covid condition or even had to be hospitalised? Not 1
Not a single school child in Ireland yes Ireland has been admitted to hospital
Yes close up shop
Not
Sweden on the other hand who kept schools open are all but over it
Crowds being allowed back into venues all over Europe but here and the shit show UK going the other way.
Yes.

26 hospital admissions in the north for the under-19 cohort since the whole show began. Not big numbers, but also not zero.

(https://iili.io/26jQou.md.png) (https://freeimage.host/i/26jQou)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 11, 2020, 09:38:02 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 09:20:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2020, 09:16:42 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 09:13:11 PM
Quote from: FermGael on October 11, 2020, 09:09:19 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 08:43:47 PM
I just think that if we keep doing what we're doing, schools will be closing every farts end for a deep clean, pupils will be in and out of school on some sort of conveyor belt of isolation and eventually schools will start struggling with staffing. The thing that we want to avoid (kids out of school) is naturally occurring and we keep burying our heads and ignoring the very obvious problem.

That's all ready happening in schools.
I know and it's only going one way.

I think in secondary schools they should think of some sort of morning/afternoon shift or alternate days to mitigate the problem.  Better half your classes in a physical school than none.
I think that plan was in place in July but abandoned in August when Peter Weir decided that all kids should go back in full time.

You might not need it everywhere and for most of the time, but it is a useful step between full open and closed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 09:42:21 PM
All going well i will be out of isolation on Thursday. At that stage my child will not have been out the door in 2 weeks. If the schools are closed how does my wife get back into working at the hospital and me to work( who have stopped their working from home policy an don't pay sick) whilst still trying to protect granny and granda

Any answers Stormont? Very little support for working families with middling income.

Cara Ni Cuilín is isolating was todays headlines ffs. Like who cares

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2020, 09:47:02 PM
So kids can't spread it!? Phew I'm glad of that

Anyways in the real world people are catching it, spreading it and undoubtedly people will die from it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 11, 2020, 09:52:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2020, 09:16:42 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 09:13:11 PM
Quote from: FermGael on October 11, 2020, 09:09:19 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 08:43:47 PM
I just think that if we keep doing what we're doing, schools will be closing every farts end for a deep clean, pupils will be in and out of school on some sort of conveyor belt of isolation and eventually schools will start struggling with staffing. The thing that we want to avoid (kids out of school) is naturally occurring and we keep burying our heads and ignoring the very obvious problem.

That's all ready happening in schools.
I know and it's only going one way.

I think in secondary schools they should think of some sort of morning/afternoon shift or alternate days to mitigate the problem.  Better half your classes in a physical school than none.

Secondary school kids by and by large don't need parents at home to look after them. Therefore they could do remote learning with less impact on economics.

Why this wasn't obvious to the education authority I'll never know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 11, 2020, 09:54:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 09:42:21 PM
All going well i will be out of isolation on Thursday. At that stage my child will not have been out the door in 2 weeks. If the schools are closed how does my wife get back into working at the hospital and me to work( who have stopped their working from home policy an don't pay sick) whilst still trying to protect granny and granda

Any answers Stormont?

Easy answer is companies should be mandated to support working from home unless impossible.

If you work in an office, its possible to work from home. No ifs, no buts. It may be awkward and dinosaurs will have to learn new tricks, but is quite feasible. They just need to sort their IT infrastructure.

If companies refuse to act - direct powerNI to cut the office electric.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on October 11, 2020, 09:54:47 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 11, 2020, 09:52:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2020, 09:16:42 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 09:13:11 PM
Quote from: FermGael on October 11, 2020, 09:09:19 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 08:43:47 PM
I just think that if we keep doing what we're doing, schools will be closing every farts end for a deep clean, pupils will be in and out of school on some sort of conveyor belt of isolation and eventually schools will start struggling with staffing. The thing that we want to avoid (kids out of school) is naturally occurring and we keep burying our heads and ignoring the very obvious problem.

That's all ready happening in schools.
I know and it's only going one way.

I think in secondary schools they should think of some sort of morning/afternoon shift or alternate days to mitigate the problem.  Better half your classes in a physical school than none.

Secondary school kids by and by large don't need parents at home to look after them. Therefore they could do remote learning with less impact on economics.

Why this wasn't obvious to the education authority I'll never know.

All well and good if they log-on in the morning.

How many won't bother?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 11, 2020, 09:57:49 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 11, 2020, 09:54:47 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 11, 2020, 09:52:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 11, 2020, 09:16:42 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 09:13:11 PM
Quote from: FermGael on October 11, 2020, 09:09:19 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 08:43:47 PM
I just think that if we keep doing what we're doing, schools will be closing every farts end for a deep clean, pupils will be in and out of school on some sort of conveyor belt of isolation and eventually schools will start struggling with staffing. The thing that we want to avoid (kids out of school) is naturally occurring and we keep burying our heads and ignoring the very obvious problem.

That's all ready happening in schools.
I know and it's only going one way.

I think in secondary schools they should think of some sort of morning/afternoon shift or alternate days to mitigate the problem.  Better half your classes in a physical school than none.

Secondary school kids by and by large don't need parents at home to look after them. Therefore they could do remote learning with less impact on economics.

Why this wasn't obvious to the education authority I'll never know.

All well and good if they log-on in the morning.

How many won't bother?

That is their (the kids & parents) problem. If the parents and kids don't give a f**k, why should the rest of society?

Far too many here don't realise how lucky they have it. Many children across the world would give their right arm for the chances given out here.


[It wouldn't be too hard to have a keystroke counter on the interface. It'd register activity across the day.]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 11, 2020, 09:59:55 PM
33
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 11, 2020, 10:15:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2020, 09:47:02 PM
So kids can't spread it!? Phew I'm glad of that

Anyways in the real world people are catching it, spreading it and undoubtedly people will die from it.

Kids spreading it is just another little matter that confuses science about this virus.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2020, 10:20:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 11, 2020, 10:15:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2020, 09:47:02 PM
So kids can't spread it!? Phew I'm glad of that

Anyways in the real world people are catching it, spreading it and undoubtedly people will die from it.

Kids spreading it is just another little matter that confuses science about this virus.

Confuses it like the virus doesn't work after 10? Or when a random 7th person pops their head into the garden?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 10:21:23 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 11, 2020, 09:54:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 09:42:21 PM
All going well i will be out of isolation on Thursday. At that stage my child will not have been out the door in 2 weeks. If the schools are closed how does my wife get back into working at the hospital and me to work( who have stopped their working from home policy an don't pay sick) whilst still trying to protect granny and granda

Any answers Stormont?

Easy answer is companies should be mandated to support working from home unless impossible.

If you work in an office, its possible to work from home. No ifs, no buts. It may be awkward and dinosaurs will have to learn new tricks, but is quite feasible. They just need to sort their IT infrastructure.

If companies refuse to act - direct powerNI to cut the office electric.

Doesnt work in healthcare or manufacturing. As you said earlier. Bullshit
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 11, 2020, 10:31:16 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 10:28:47 PM
Here's the thing, Fear. That logistical conundrum is facing parents even with schools open. If we continue without social distancing in schools, your lad could be in and out like Lanigan's Ball anyway and we continue to have no handle on the spread of Covid.

It's Catch-22.

For me, what we are currently doing is failing and it will always fail. We need to think again.

But schools aren't the problem....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 10:41:39 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 10:28:47 PM
Here's the thing, Fear. That logistical conundrum is facing parents even with schools open. If we continue without social distancing in schools, your lad could be in and out like Lanigan's Ball anyway and we continue to have no handle on the spread of Covid.

It's Catch-22.

For me, what we are currently doing is failing and it will always fail. We need to think again.

Yes we need a new plan, I agree with pretty much all of that. The powers that be should be more informed this time around
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 12, 2020, 09:54:06 AM
You lads are quick to throw the authorities under the bus here for pretty much everything. I don't really see any country thriving right now, bar New Zealand which had about 34,000 people in a stadium just the other morning. It does have the benefit of having 2000km odd distance between it and it's nearest and dearest mind you.

Governments have to be very careful to keep the people on side - What I read on this board about Covid and what I hear in the real world are very different views. The Government(s) have made mistakes, but this isn't something that they had ever planned - Boris Johnson was elected to get Brexit done, that was his only M.O coming to power. Him, his backers and his team have landed themselves into an absolute shitshow and they have no idea how to handle it. Them and most other Governments seem to be adopting a buy time....lets see if someone else can crack it policy. I said before it's hardly Boris Johnson fault about 7 or 8 UK PM's continually undercutted funding for the NHS.

You are throwing out mad ideas that simply aren't doable. Cutting off electric to offices that don't have people work from home? Jesus lads....You need to be very careful here, people want to go to work. I've worked (in an office) the whole way through this, I've seen what 6-8 months at home have done to some people. It wasn't positive.

Lockdowns and the likes that seem to be called for on this board, I've yet to meet a person off this board that wants that. Therein lies the problem.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on October 12, 2020, 10:22:06 AM
The notion of closing schools doesn't sit well with me either. The education and mental well being of our children should not be under-estimated.  Covid isn't the only show in town.  Children have had to come out of school and self isolate in my daughters' school also but it is a relatively small percentage.  The kids that have the disease caught it outside of the school environment and thankfully any of their contacts that have self-isolated have not shown any symptoms, had a positive test or spread it to relatives.  Is it really fair to close schools because of this?
Schools aren't there just to mind the kids to allow us all to go back to work.  They provide a vital service in their own right obviously.
The difference in my children is marked since they went back to school.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 12, 2020, 10:26:49 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 11, 2020, 10:41:39 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 11, 2020, 10:28:47 PM
Here's the thing, Fear. That logistical conundrum is facing parents even with schools open. If we continue without social distancing in schools, your lad could be in and out like Lanigan's Ball anyway and we continue to have no handle on the spread of Covid.

It's Catch-22.

For me, what we are currently doing is failing and it will always fail. We need to think again.

Yes we need a new plan, I agree with pretty much all of that. The powers that be should be more informed this time around
The only viable plan is total lockdown, full compensation for hospitality etc who have to shut down, WFH for office wallas and wait for the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 12, 2020, 11:04:37 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-54504785

This is how to take it seriously.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2020, 11:15:32 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 12, 2020, 09:54:06 AM

Lockdowns and the likes that seem to be called for on this board, I've yet to meet a person off this board that wants that. Therein lies the problem.
Nobody wants lockdowns, but it seems to me that most people accept they may be periodically necessary
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: shezam on October 12, 2020, 11:19:08 AM
This is well worth watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJq8MBgYJ4Q&t=5s
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2020, 11:27:16 AM
Quote from: shezam on October 12, 2020, 11:19:08 AM
This is well worth watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJq8MBgYJ4Q&t=5s
I think I'll stay away from YouTube grifters, thanks

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 12, 2020, 10:37:45 AM
Quote from: mackers on October 12, 2020, 10:22:06 AM
The notion of closing schools doesn't sit well with me either. The education and mental well being of our children should not be under-estimated.  Covid isn't the only show in town.  Children have had to come out of school and self isolate in my daughters' school also but it is a relatively small percentage.  The kids that have the disease caught it outside of the school environment and thankfully any of their contacts that have self-isolated have not shown any symptoms, had a positive test or spread it to relatives.  Is it really fair to close schools because of this?
Schools aren't there just to mind the kids to allow us all to go back to work.  They provide a vital service in their own right obviously.
The difference in my children is marked since they went back to school.
We don't need to fully close the schools to at least try and get a bit of control on Covid. The lack of social distancing in schools is working against them. We need to look at that.

Time for me to have a rant at schools (and teachers). So basically, when COVID started I came to work and I had an absolute shit load of problems. People out, machines that required people to be sitting side by side, access and exit to and from work with 100's of people coming in together. The canteen was not usable. Every single facet of normal life had to change. You know what, we had to get into gear fast and get solutions to each and every one of these issues working with all our employees who were the best source of ideas. Since March as a result in a factory of more  than 1000 people we have had 5 positive cases, none of which originated at work.

What did schools do when they were shut? Sweet f**k all judging by my locality. Did many teachers come in and help to work on solutions?  Maybe some, but the majority sat at home waiting for someone else to do it for them. Then they threaten strike, the only sector that I know of that used a pandemic to try and manipulate their conditions (and please, don't tell me these teachers unions are interested in pupil safety).

So a couple of things that could have been done.

-Perspex U Shape shields dividing pupils at their desks (no masks required unless moving)
-Use Skype, Teams or other app in the class room - kids on phone/tablets/laptops
- Staggered start time could be considered
- All usual sanitising installed
- Temperature monitoring off  the buses at the gates

Now before anyone jumps down my throat I am fully sure some schools with good management have done some of these things, and I know these things are not easy to do (they weren't easy in my place of work). But you have choices, roll up your sleeves and get to it or sit on the outside moaning about everything. Stop threatening strike at a time when society needs everyone to pull together. Teachers had 3 months off during the summer, fully paid, how many came in and helped in their schools? Of course there is no risk to their pay and job so some would not bother. Where was the leadership in the teacher unions on this?

Schools need to stay open, for the good of kids and the wider economy. I am convinced it can be done in a relatively safe way having lived through a very similar experience at work myself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 12, 2020, 11:41:46 AM
Quote from: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 12, 2020, 10:37:45 AM
Quote from: mackers on October 12, 2020, 10:22:06 AM
The notion of closing schools doesn't sit well with me either. The education and mental well being of our children should not be under-estimated.  Covid isn't the only show in town.  Children have had to come out of school and self isolate in my daughters' school also but it is a relatively small percentage.  The kids that have the disease caught it outside of the school environment and thankfully any of their contacts that have self-isolated have not shown any symptoms, had a positive test or spread it to relatives.  Is it really fair to close schools because of this?
Schools aren't there just to mind the kids to allow us all to go back to work.  They provide a vital service in their own right obviously.
The difference in my children is marked since they went back to school.
We don't need to fully close the schools to at least try and get a bit of control on Covid. The lack of social distancing in schools is working against them. We need to look at that.

Time for me to have a rant at schools (and teachers). So basically, when COVID started I came to work and I had an absolute shit load of problems. People out, machines that required people to be sitting side by side, access and exit to and from work with 100's of people coming in together. The canteen was not usable. Every single facet of normal life had to change. You know what, we had to get into gear fast and get solutions to each and every one of these issues working with all our employees who were the best source of ideas. Since March as a result in a factory of more  than 1000 people we have had 5 positive cases, none of which originated at work.

What did schools do when they were shut? Sweet f**k all judging by my locality. Did many teachers come in and help to work on solutions?  Maybe some, but the majority sat at home waiting for someone else to do it for them. Then they threaten strike, the only sector that I know of that used a pandemic to try and manipulate their conditions (and please, don't tell me these teachers unions are interested in pupil safety).

So a couple of things that could have been done.

-Perspex U Shape shields dividing pupils at their desks (no masks required unless moving)
-Use Skype, Teams or other app in the class room - kids on phone/tablets/laptops
- Staggered start time could be considered
- All usual sanitising installed
- Temperature monitoring off  the buses at the gates

Now before anyone jumps down my throat I am fully sure some schools with good management have done some of these things, and I know these things are not easy to do (they weren't easy in my place of work). But you have choices, roll up your sleeves and get to it or sit on the outside moaning about everything. Stop threatening strike at a time when society needs everyone to pull together. Teachers had 3 months off during the summer, fully paid, how many came in and helped in their schools? Of course there is no risk to their pay and job so some would not bother. Where was the leadership in the teacher unions on this?

Schools need to stay open, for the good of kids and the wider economy. I am convinced it can be done in a relatively safe way having lived through a very similar experience at work myself.
Major error not becoming a teacher!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 11:44:36 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 12, 2020, 11:41:46 AM
Quote from: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 12, 2020, 10:37:45 AM
Quote from: mackers on October 12, 2020, 10:22:06 AM
The notion of closing schools doesn't sit well with me either. The education and mental well being of our children should not be under-estimated.  Covid isn't the only show in town.  Children have had to come out of school and self isolate in my daughters' school also but it is a relatively small percentage.  The kids that have the disease caught it outside of the school environment and thankfully any of their contacts that have self-isolated have not shown any symptoms, had a positive test or spread it to relatives.  Is it really fair to close schools because of this?
Schools aren't there just to mind the kids to allow us all to go back to work.  They provide a vital service in their own right obviously.
The difference in my children is marked since they went back to school.
We don't need to fully close the schools to at least try and get a bit of control on Covid. The lack of social distancing in schools is working against them. We need to look at that.

Time for me to have a rant at schools (and teachers). So basically, when COVID started I came to work and I had an absolute shit load of problems. People out, machines that required people to be sitting side by side, access and exit to and from work with 100's of people coming in together. The canteen was not usable. Every single facet of normal life had to change. You know what, we had to get into gear fast and get solutions to each and every one of these issues working with all our employees who were the best source of ideas. Since March as a result in a factory of more  than 1000 people we have had 5 positive cases, none of which originated at work.

What did schools do when they were shut? Sweet f**k all judging by my locality. Did many teachers come in and help to work on solutions?  Maybe some, but the majority sat at home waiting for someone else to do it for them. Then they threaten strike, the only sector that I know of that used a pandemic to try and manipulate their conditions (and please, don't tell me these teachers unions are interested in pupil safety).

So a couple of things that could have been done.

-Perspex U Shape shields dividing pupils at their desks (no masks required unless moving)
-Use Skype, Teams or other app in the class room - kids on phone/tablets/laptops
- Staggered start time could be considered
- All usual sanitising installed
- Temperature monitoring off  the buses at the gates

Now before anyone jumps down my throat I am fully sure some schools with good management have done some of these things, and I know these things are not easy to do (they weren't easy in my place of work). But you have choices, roll up your sleeves and get to it or sit on the outside moaning about everything. Stop threatening strike at a time when society needs everyone to pull together. Teachers had 3 months off during the summer, fully paid, how many came in and helped in their schools? Of course there is no risk to their pay and job so some would not bother. Where was the leadership in the teacher unions on this?

Schools need to stay open, for the good of kids and the wider economy. I am convinced it can be done in a relatively safe way having lived through a very similar experience at work myself.
Major error not becoming a teacher!

I make medical devices for people who have very serious medical issues, I am quite happy and proud of being able to do something for those people. When we work to find solutions to COVID concerns those people are in our thoughts. If we just stopped making product it would be a serious problem for them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 12, 2020, 12:03:25 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 11:44:36 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 12, 2020, 11:41:46 AM
Quote from: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 12, 2020, 10:37:45 AM
Quote from: mackers on October 12, 2020, 10:22:06 AM
The notion of closing schools doesn't sit well with me either. The education and mental well being of our children should not be under-estimated.  Covid isn't the only show in town.  Children have had to come out of school and self isolate in my daughters' school also but it is a relatively small percentage.  The kids that have the disease caught it outside of the school environment and thankfully any of their contacts that have self-isolated have not shown any symptoms, had a positive test or spread it to relatives.  Is it really fair to close schools because of this?
Schools aren't there just to mind the kids to allow us all to go back to work.  They provide a vital service in their own right obviously.
The difference in my children is marked since they went back to school.
We don't need to fully close the schools to at least try and get a bit of control on Covid. The lack of social distancing in schools is working against them. We need to look at that.

Time for me to have a rant at schools (and teachers). So basically, when COVID started I came to work and I had an absolute shit load of problems. People out, machines that required people to be sitting side by side, access and exit to and from work with 100's of people coming in together. The canteen was not usable. Every single facet of normal life had to change. You know what, we had to get into gear fast and get solutions to each and every one of these issues working with all our employees who were the best source of ideas. Since March as a result in a factory of more  than 1000 people we have had 5 positive cases, none of which originated at work.

What did schools do when they were shut? Sweet f**k all judging by my locality. Did many teachers come in and help to work on solutions?  Maybe some, but the majority sat at home waiting for someone else to do it for them. Then they threaten strike, the only sector that I know of that used a pandemic to try and manipulate their conditions (and please, don't tell me these teachers unions are interested in pupil safety).

So a couple of things that could have been done.

-Perspex U Shape shields dividing pupils at their desks (no masks required unless moving)
-Use Skype, Teams or other app in the class room - kids on phone/tablets/laptops
- Staggered start time could be considered
- All usual sanitising installed
- Temperature monitoring off  the buses at the gates

Now before anyone jumps down my throat I am fully sure some schools with good management have done some of these things, and I know these things are not easy to do (they weren't easy in my place of work). But you have choices, roll up your sleeves and get to it or sit on the outside moaning about everything. Stop threatening strike at a time when society needs everyone to pull together. Teachers had 3 months off during the summer, fully paid, how many came in and helped in their schools? Of course there is no risk to their pay and job so some would not bother. Where was the leadership in the teacher unions on this?

Schools need to stay open, for the good of kids and the wider economy. I am convinced it can be done in a relatively safe way having lived through a very similar experience at work myself.
Major error not becoming a teacher!

I make medical devices for people who have very serious medical issues, I am quite happy and proud of being able to do something for those people. When we work to find solutions to COVID concerns those people are in our thoughts. If we just stopped making product it would be a serious problem for them.
When teachers and students start to become very ill or worse, your rant may come under more scrutiny!  All work deserves to be done in as safe an environment as possible - technology developed and learnt in record time by teachers has created a very safe environment for teaching and learning since March and in the event of any future temporary school closures.  Schools and teachers can be proud of that.  Not ideal but parents and society want safe learning.  Anyhow, you clearly do very important work for society so well done for keeping things going.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 12:11:25 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 12, 2020, 12:03:25 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 11:44:36 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 12, 2020, 11:41:46 AM
Quote from: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 12, 2020, 10:37:45 AM
Quote from: mackers on October 12, 2020, 10:22:06 AM
The notion of closing schools doesn't sit well with me either. The education and mental well being of our children should not be under-estimated.  Covid isn't the only show in town.  Children have had to come out of school and self isolate in my daughters' school also but it is a relatively small percentage.  The kids that have the disease caught it outside of the school environment and thankfully any of their contacts that have self-isolated have not shown any symptoms, had a positive test or spread it to relatives.  Is it really fair to close schools because of this?
Schools aren't there just to mind the kids to allow us all to go back to work.  They provide a vital service in their own right obviously.
The difference in my children is marked since they went back to school.
We don't need to fully close the schools to at least try and get a bit of control on Covid. The lack of social distancing in schools is working against them. We need to look at that.

Time for me to have a rant at schools (and teachers). So basically, when COVID started I came to work and I had an absolute shit load of problems. People out, machines that required people to be sitting side by side, access and exit to and from work with 100's of people coming in together. The canteen was not usable. Every single facet of normal life had to change. You know what, we had to get into gear fast and get solutions to each and every one of these issues working with all our employees who were the best source of ideas. Since March as a result in a factory of more  than 1000 people we have had 5 positive cases, none of which originated at work.

What did schools do when they were shut? Sweet f**k all judging by my locality. Did many teachers come in and help to work on solutions?  Maybe some, but the majority sat at home waiting for someone else to do it for them. Then they threaten strike, the only sector that I know of that used a pandemic to try and manipulate their conditions (and please, don't tell me these teachers unions are interested in pupil safety).

So a couple of things that could have been done.

-Perspex U Shape shields dividing pupils at their desks (no masks required unless moving)
-Use Skype, Teams or other app in the class room - kids on phone/tablets/laptops
- Staggered start time could be considered
- All usual sanitising installed
- Temperature monitoring off  the buses at the gates

Now before anyone jumps down my throat I am fully sure some schools with good management have done some of these things, and I know these things are not easy to do (they weren't easy in my place of work). But you have choices, roll up your sleeves and get to it or sit on the outside moaning about everything. Stop threatening strike at a time when society needs everyone to pull together. Teachers had 3 months off during the summer, fully paid, how many came in and helped in their schools? Of course there is no risk to their pay and job so some would not bother. Where was the leadership in the teacher unions on this?

Schools need to stay open, for the good of kids and the wider economy. I am convinced it can be done in a relatively safe way having lived through a very similar experience at work myself.
Major error not becoming a teacher!

I make medical devices for people who have very serious medical issues, I am quite happy and proud of being able to do something for those people. When we work to find solutions to COVID concerns those people are in our thoughts. If we just stopped making product it would be a serious problem for them.
When teachers and students start to become very ill or worse, your rant may come under more scrutiny!  All work deserves to be done in as safe an environment as possible - technology developed and learnt in record time by teachers has created a very safe environment for teaching and learning since March and in the event of any future temporary school closures.  Schools and teachers can be proud of that.  Not ideal but parents and society want safe learning.  Anyhow, you clearly do very important work for society so well done for keeping things going.

By some teachers. Some did absolutely nothing and you know that. Further, those that did absolutely nothing have no fear of ever having to answer for that either. I commend those teachers that see their job as more than a 9-4 clock in/clock out and rather see it as the important vocation type job it is.

Oh and people will get sick, at work, at home and everywhere. There is no "safe" approach that eliminates risk, we can only do as good as we can do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: michaelg on October 12, 2020, 12:30:55 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 12:11:25 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 12, 2020, 12:03:25 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 11:44:36 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 12, 2020, 11:41:46 AM
Quote from: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 12, 2020, 10:37:45 AM
Quote from: mackers on October 12, 2020, 10:22:06 AM
The notion of closing schools doesn't sit well with me either. The education and mental well being of our children should not be under-estimated.  Covid isn't the only show in town.  Children have had to come out of school and self isolate in my daughters' school also but it is a relatively small percentage.  The kids that have the disease caught it outside of the school environment and thankfully any of their contacts that have self-isolated have not shown any symptoms, had a positive test or spread it to relatives.  Is it really fair to close schools because of this?
Schools aren't there just to mind the kids to allow us all to go back to work.  They provide a vital service in their own right obviously.
The difference in my children is marked since they went back to school.
We don't need to fully close the schools to at least try and get a bit of control on Covid. The lack of social distancing in schools is working against them. We need to look at that.

Time for me to have a rant at schools (and teachers). So basically, when COVID started I came to work and I had an absolute shit load of problems. People out, machines that required people to be sitting side by side, access and exit to and from work with 100's of people coming in together. The canteen was not usable. Every single facet of normal life had to change. You know what, we had to get into gear fast and get solutions to each and every one of these issues working with all our employees who were the best source of ideas. Since March as a result in a factory of more  than 1000 people we have had 5 positive cases, none of which originated at work.

What did schools do when they were shut? Sweet f**k all judging by my locality. Did many teachers come in and help to work on solutions?  Maybe some, but the majority sat at home waiting for someone else to do it for them. Then they threaten strike, the only sector that I know of that used a pandemic to try and manipulate their conditions (and please, don't tell me these teachers unions are interested in pupil safety).

So a couple of things that could have been done.

-Perspex U Shape shields dividing pupils at their desks (no masks required unless moving)
-Use Skype, Teams or other app in the class room - kids on phone/tablets/laptops
- Staggered start time could be considered
- All usual sanitising installed
- Temperature monitoring off  the buses at the gates

Now before anyone jumps down my throat I am fully sure some schools with good management have done some of these things, and I know these things are not easy to do (they weren't easy in my place of work). But you have choices, roll up your sleeves and get to it or sit on the outside moaning about everything. Stop threatening strike at a time when society needs everyone to pull together. Teachers had 3 months off during the summer, fully paid, how many came in and helped in their schools? Of course there is no risk to their pay and job so some would not bother. Where was the leadership in the teacher unions on this?

Schools need to stay open, for the good of kids and the wider economy. I am convinced it can be done in a relatively safe way having lived through a very similar experience at work myself.
Major error not becoming a teacher!

I make medical devices for people who have very serious medical issues, I am quite happy and proud of being able to do something for those people. When we work to find solutions to COVID concerns those people are in our thoughts. If we just stopped making product it would be a serious problem for them.
When teachers and students start to become very ill or worse, your rant may come under more scrutiny!  All work deserves to be done in as safe an environment as possible - technology developed and learnt in record time by teachers has created a very safe environment for teaching and learning since March and in the event of any future temporary school closures.  Schools and teachers can be proud of that.  Not ideal but parents and society want safe learning.  Anyhow, you clearly do very important work for society so well done for keeping things going.

By some teachers. Some did absolutely nothing and you know that. Further, those that did absolutely nothing have no fear of ever having to answer for that either. I commend those teachers that see their job as more than a 9-4 clock in/clock out and rather see it as the important vocation type job it is.

Oh and people will get sick, at work, at home and everywhere. There is no "safe" approach that eliminates risk, we can only do as good as we can do.
Do you know any teachers?  It is simply not possible to do the job working 9 to 4.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 12:33:47 PM
Quote from: michaelg on October 12, 2020, 12:30:55 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 12:11:25 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 12, 2020, 12:03:25 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 11:44:36 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 12, 2020, 11:41:46 AM
Quote from: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 12, 2020, 10:37:45 AM
Quote from: mackers on October 12, 2020, 10:22:06 AM
The notion of closing schools doesn't sit well with me either. The education and mental well being of our children should not be under-estimated.  Covid isn't the only show in town.  Children have had to come out of school and self isolate in my daughters' school also but it is a relatively small percentage.  The kids that have the disease caught it outside of the school environment and thankfully any of their contacts that have self-isolated have not shown any symptoms, had a positive test or spread it to relatives.  Is it really fair to close schools because of this?
Schools aren't there just to mind the kids to allow us all to go back to work.  They provide a vital service in their own right obviously.
The difference in my children is marked since they went back to school.
We don't need to fully close the schools to at least try and get a bit of control on Covid. The lack of social distancing in schools is working against them. We need to look at that.

Time for me to have a rant at schools (and teachers). So basically, when COVID started I came to work and I had an absolute shit load of problems. People out, machines that required people to be sitting side by side, access and exit to and from work with 100's of people coming in together. The canteen was not usable. Every single facet of normal life had to change. You know what, we had to get into gear fast and get solutions to each and every one of these issues working with all our employees who were the best source of ideas. Since March as a result in a factory of more  than 1000 people we have had 5 positive cases, none of which originated at work.

What did schools do when they were shut? Sweet f**k all judging by my locality. Did many teachers come in and help to work on solutions?  Maybe some, but the majority sat at home waiting for someone else to do it for them. Then they threaten strike, the only sector that I know of that used a pandemic to try and manipulate their conditions (and please, don't tell me these teachers unions are interested in pupil safety).

So a couple of things that could have been done.

-Perspex U Shape shields dividing pupils at their desks (no masks required unless moving)
-Use Skype, Teams or other app in the class room - kids on phone/tablets/laptops
- Staggered start time could be considered
- All usual sanitising installed
- Temperature monitoring off  the buses at the gates

Now before anyone jumps down my throat I am fully sure some schools with good management have done some of these things, and I know these things are not easy to do (they weren't easy in my place of work). But you have choices, roll up your sleeves and get to it or sit on the outside moaning about everything. Stop threatening strike at a time when society needs everyone to pull together. Teachers had 3 months off during the summer, fully paid, how many came in and helped in their schools? Of course there is no risk to their pay and job so some would not bother. Where was the leadership in the teacher unions on this?

Schools need to stay open, for the good of kids and the wider economy. I am convinced it can be done in a relatively safe way having lived through a very similar experience at work myself.
Major error not becoming a teacher!

I make medical devices for people who have very serious medical issues, I am quite happy and proud of being able to do something for those people. When we work to find solutions to COVID concerns those people are in our thoughts. If we just stopped making product it would be a serious problem for them.
When teachers and students start to become very ill or worse, your rant may come under more scrutiny!  All work deserves to be done in as safe an environment as possible - technology developed and learnt in record time by teachers has created a very safe environment for teaching and learning since March and in the event of any future temporary school closures.  Schools and teachers can be proud of that.  Not ideal but parents and society want safe learning.  Anyhow, you clearly do very important work for society so well done for keeping things going.

By some teachers. Some did absolutely nothing and you know that. Further, those that did absolutely nothing have no fear of ever having to answer for that either. I commend those teachers that see their job as more than a 9-4 clock in/clock out and rather see it as the important vocation type job it is.

Oh and people will get sick, at work, at home and everywhere. There is no "safe" approach that eliminates risk, we can only do as good as we can do.
Do you know any teachers?  It is simply not possible to do the job working 9 to 4.

I know an awful lot. Correction to your comment, it is not possible to do the job "properly" working 9-4, agreed. However, what happens if you are not doing the job properly? Do you get a disciplinary, a lower pay increase at year end etc. Anyway we are digressing away from the point
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 12:39:23 PM
The sad thing is most teachers go into the profession for 3 months paid holidays and see this as the most sacred aspect of the job.

They do the good teachers a disservice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 12, 2020, 12:45:58 PM
If a teacher is not doing his or her job properly - complain to the school, again and again.   Same as any other profession.  What I can tell you is that the 'new' teacher in the 6 counties is a completely different species than 20-30 years ago, much better trained and held to account.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 01:41:38 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 12, 2020, 12:45:58 PM
If a teacher is not doing his or her job properly - complain to the school, again and again.   Same as any other profession.  What I can tell you is that the 'new' teacher in the 6 counties is a completely different species than 20-30 years ago, much better trained and held to account.

My comments are related to the South. I dont know anything about teachers in the North. I should have made that clear.
What I can tell you is down here you can complain a million times but bar a teacher murders a pupil in the South they are going nowhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 12, 2020, 02:03:15 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 01:41:38 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 12, 2020, 12:45:58 PM
If a teacher is not doing his or her job properly - complain to the school, again and again.   Same as any other profession.  What I can tell you is that the 'new' teacher in the 6 counties is a completely different species than 20-30 years ago, much better trained and held to account.

My comments are related to the South. I dont know anything about teachers in the North. I should have made that clear.
What I can tell you is down here you can complain a million times but bar a teacher murders a pupil in the South they are going nowhere.

Wrong. There are procedures that can get a teacher to lose their job. Just complain to the board of management about him/her/them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 12, 2020, 02:14:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 12, 2020, 11:15:32 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 12, 2020, 09:54:06 AM

Lockdowns and the likes that seem to be called for on this board, I've yet to meet a person off this board that wants that. Therein lies the problem.
Nobody wants lockdowns, but it seems to me that most people accept they may be periodically necessary

I understand the premise of periodical lockdown. Are they needed? Possibly. I'm not sure, someone who knows a bit more about virus transmission will be better equipped to answer that vs the economic effect.

Lockdown without mass testing however is literally wasting everyone's time and money. It's a sticky plaster at best.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
It will be interesting what happens up north in the next 5/6 weeks.

On the 14th August there were 6,299 cases and the death total was 558.

Around two months later and the cases are up to 20,158 but deaths are only up to 588.

So cases are up 223% yet deaths are only up 5%.

Obviously the surge has only been lately so the real answer on deaths will only be in 5/6 weeks time, you'd imagine by using precedent you'd expect the death rate to be 1,805.

I really don't envisage 1,300 odd Covid deaths in the O6 in the next 5/6 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 12, 2020, 02:30:02 PM
I don't think anybody is expecting the same death rate (ie deaths per number of infections)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 12, 2020, 02:30:21 PM
Govts everywhere need to start understanding clusters and treat this virus situation as a war
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on October 12, 2020, 02:50:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
It will be interesting what happens up north in the next 5/6 weeks.

On the 14th August there were 6,299 cases and the death total was 558.

Around two months later and the cases are up to 20,158 but deaths are only up to 588.

So cases are up 223% yet deaths are only up 5%.

Obviously the surge has only been lately so the real answer on deaths will only be in 5/6 weeks time, you'd imagine by using precedent you'd expect the death rate to be 1,805.

I really don't envisage 1,300 odd Covid deaths in the O6 in the next 5/6 weeks.

I listened to some professor on BBC Radio Ulster this morning. He said the pattern of infections with low hospital admissions and correspondingly deaths, is similar to what happened in the first wave.
That initially the younger healthier generation get it but that doesn't immediately cause a spike in deaths or hospital admissions, however, with the inevitable spread from the younger generation to the older generation in the weeks ahead, the deaths will rise.
There is no evidence that I've seen that says there will not be 1300 deaths in the 6 over the next 5/6 weeks.
The WHO say the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases is between 3-4%.
We are at 1000+ a day at the moment, which could mean 30/40 deaths per day if we continue at the current rate of infection. That could be approx 200 deaths a week, over 5-6 weeks is close to the 1300 mark. All very approximate figures, but the complacency about us not going to get it that bad is a major part of the problem in my opinion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 12, 2020, 02:54:39 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on October 12, 2020, 02:50:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
It will be interesting what happens up north in the next 5/6 weeks.

On the 14th August there were 6,299 cases and the death total was 558.

Around two months later and the cases are up to 20,158 but deaths are only up to 588.

So cases are up 223% yet deaths are only up 5%.

Obviously the surge has only been lately so the real answer on deaths will only be in 5/6 weeks time, you'd imagine by using precedent you'd expect the death rate to be 1,805.

I really don't envisage 1,300 odd Covid deaths in the O6 in the next 5/6 weeks.

I listened to some professor on BBC Radio Ulster this morning. He said the pattern of infections with low hospital admissions and correspondingly deaths, is similar to what happened in the first wave.
That initially the younger healthier generation get it but that doesn't immediately cause a spike in deaths or hospital admissions, however, with the inevitable spread from the younger generation to the older generation in the weeks ahead, the deaths will rise.
There is no evidence that I've seen that says there will not be 1300 deaths in the 6 over the next 5/6 weeks.
The WHO say the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases is between 3-4%.
We are at 1000+ a day at the moment, which could mean 30/40 deaths per day if we continue at the current rate of infection. That could be approx 200 deaths a week, over 5-6 weeks is close to the 1300 mark. All very approximate figures, but the complacency about us not going to get it that bad is a major part of the problem in my opinion.
The split by age of those infected is key. If it is mostly old people then 4% may be reasonable but if it is younger the mortality rate would typically be lower
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 12, 2020, 03:04:15 PM
Something to take Itchy's mind off teachers and Riscommon players meals

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/cavan-headed-for-covid-19-danger-zone-as-border-counties-may-face-level-4-restrictions-39613106.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 03:05:41 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on October 12, 2020, 02:50:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
It will be interesting what happens up north in the next 5/6 weeks.

On the 14th August there were 6,299 cases and the death total was 558.

Around two months later and the cases are up to 20,158 but deaths are only up to 588.

So cases are up 223% yet deaths are only up 5%.

Obviously the surge has only been lately so the real answer on deaths will only be in 5/6 weeks time, you'd imagine by using precedent you'd expect the death rate to be 1,805.

I really don't envisage 1,300 odd Covid deaths in the O6 in the next 5/6 weeks.

I listened to some professor on BBC Radio Ulster this morning. He said the pattern of infections with low hospital admissions and correspondingly deaths, is similar to what happened in the first wave.
That initially the younger healthier generation get it but that doesn't immediately cause a spike in deaths or hospital admissions, however, with the inevitable spread from the younger generation to the older generation in the weeks ahead, the deaths will rise.
There is no evidence that I've seen that says there will not be 1300 deaths in the 6 over the next 5/6 weeks.
The WHO say the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases is between 3-4%.
We are at 1000+ a day at the moment, which could mean 30/40 deaths per day if we continue at the current rate of infection. That could be approx 200 deaths a week, over 5-6 weeks is close to the 1300 mark. All very approximate figures, but the complacency about us not going to get it that bad is a major part of the problem in my opinion.

I still maintain it's highly unlikely. We will see in the next 5/6 weeks though.

It's all guesswork and the experts have shown us that they don't have the foggiest idea.

Is there any conclusive proof that the second wave is any higher than the first or is it just that they now have an established testing and tracing regime in place which is yielding higher positive cases as result?
How many daily new cases are there in reality?
How many actual new cases does the testing system actually capture?
Is it 4 or 5 times higher in reality?
What immunity do asymptomatic people develop?


Whatever way you want to look at it, science has badly let us down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 12, 2020, 03:11:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 03:05:41 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on October 12, 2020, 02:50:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
It will be interesting what happens up north in the next 5/6 weeks.

On the 14th August there were 6,299 cases and the death total was 558.

Around two months later and the cases are up to 20,158 but deaths are only up to 588.

So cases are up 223% yet deaths are only up 5%.

Obviously the surge has only been lately so the real answer on deaths will only be in 5/6 weeks time, you'd imagine by using precedent you'd expect the death rate to be 1,805.

I really don't envisage 1,300 odd Covid deaths in the O6 in the next 5/6 weeks.

I listened to some professor on BBC Radio Ulster this morning. He said the pattern of infections with low hospital admissions and correspondingly deaths, is similar to what happened in the first wave.
That initially the younger healthier generation get it but that doesn't immediately cause a spike in deaths or hospital admissions, however, with the inevitable spread from the younger generation to the older generation in the weeks ahead, the deaths will rise.
There is no evidence that I've seen that says there will not be 1300 deaths in the 6 over the next 5/6 weeks.
The WHO say the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases is between 3-4%.
We are at 1000+ a day at the moment, which could mean 30/40 deaths per day if we continue at the current rate of infection. That could be approx 200 deaths a week, over 5-6 weeks is close to the 1300 mark. All very approximate figures, but the complacency about us not going to get it that bad is a major part of the problem in my opinion.

I still maintain it's highly unlikely. We will see in the next 5/6 weeks though.

It's all guesswork and the experts have shown us that they don't have the foggiest idea.

Is there any conclusive proof that the second wave is any higher than the first or is it just that they now have an established testing and tracing regime in place which is yielding higher positive cases as result?
How many daily new cases are there in reality?
How many actual new cases does the testing system actually capture?
Is it 4 or 5 times higher in reality?
What immunity do asymptomatic people develop?


Whatever way you want to look at it, science has badly let us down.
Jaysus!!  Will we start on the rosary or what?   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 03:14:44 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 12, 2020, 02:03:15 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 01:41:38 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 12, 2020, 12:45:58 PM
If a teacher is not doing his or her job properly - complain to the school, again and again.   Same as any other profession.  What I can tell you is that the 'new' teacher in the 6 counties is a completely different species than 20-30 years ago, much better trained and held to account.

My comments are related to the South. I dont know anything about teachers in the North. I should have made that clear.
What I can tell you is down here you can complain a million times but bar a teacher murders a pupil in the South they are going nowhere.

Wrong. There are procedures that can get a teacher to lose their job. Just complain to the board of management about him/her/them.

Yes, there are procedures. Go and find out how many teachers have been subjected to it to the point they lost their job and report back to me. We both know the answer can be counted with fingers on one hand.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on October 12, 2020, 03:16:56 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 12, 2020, 03:04:15 PM
Something to take Itchy's mind off teachers and Riscommon players meals

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/cavan-headed-for-covid-19-danger-zone-as-border-counties-may-face-level-4-restrictions-39613106.html

Yes, hilarious isn't it. Unfortunately that's partition for you, it hasn't worked out too well for Border counties ever.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 03:18:37 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 12, 2020, 03:11:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 03:05:41 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on October 12, 2020, 02:50:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
It will be interesting what happens up north in the next 5/6 weeks.

On the 14th August there were 6,299 cases and the death total was 558.

Around two months later and the cases are up to 20,158 but deaths are only up to 588.

So cases are up 223% yet deaths are only up 5%.

Obviously the surge has only been lately so the real answer on deaths will only be in 5/6 weeks time, you'd imagine by using precedent you'd expect the death rate to be 1,805.

I really don't envisage 1,300 odd Covid deaths in the O6 in the next 5/6 weeks.

I listened to some professor on BBC Radio Ulster this morning. He said the pattern of infections with low hospital admissions and correspondingly deaths, is similar to what happened in the first wave.
That initially the younger healthier generation get it but that doesn't immediately cause a spike in deaths or hospital admissions, however, with the inevitable spread from the younger generation to the older generation in the weeks ahead, the deaths will rise.
There is no evidence that I've seen that says there will not be 1300 deaths in the 6 over the next 5/6 weeks.
The WHO say the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases is between 3-4%.
We are at 1000+ a day at the moment, which could mean 30/40 deaths per day if we continue at the current rate of infection. That could be approx 200 deaths a week, over 5-6 weeks is close to the 1300 mark. All very approximate figures, but the complacency about us not going to get it that bad is a major part of the problem in my opinion.

I still maintain it's highly unlikely. We will see in the next 5/6 weeks though.

It's all guesswork and the experts have shown us that they don't have the foggiest idea.

Is there any conclusive proof that the second wave is any higher than the first or is it just that they now have an established testing and tracing regime in place which is yielding higher positive cases as result?
How many daily new cases are there in reality?
How many actual new cases does the testing system actually capture?
Is it 4 or 5 times higher in reality?
What immunity do asymptomatic people develop?


Whatever way you want to look at it, science has badly let us down.
Jaysus!!  Will we start on the rosary or what?

We're probably 10 months into a pandemic and pretty much none the wiser about it.

Do we have clear answers on immunity, transmission, potency, level of infection?

Not a clue. The virus will probably have burned itself out long before science has solved it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 12, 2020, 03:22:31 PM
Chris Whitty said on the 21st of September that there would be 50 k cases a day by mid October if drastic action wasn't taken.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 12, 2020, 03:23:10 PM
Science us a biteen more complicated than Internet forums/Social media where everything is solved in half an hour.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on October 12, 2020, 03:27:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 03:18:37 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 12, 2020, 03:11:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 03:05:41 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on October 12, 2020, 02:50:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
It will be interesting what happens up north in the next 5/6 weeks.

On the 14th August there were 6,299 cases and the death total was 558.

Around two months later and the cases are up to 20,158 but deaths are only up to 588.

So cases are up 223% yet deaths are only up 5%.

Obviously the surge has only been lately so the real answer on deaths will only be in 5/6 weeks time, you'd imagine by using precedent you'd expect the death rate to be 1,805.

I really don't envisage 1,300 odd Covid deaths in the O6 in the next 5/6 weeks.

I listened to some professor on BBC Radio Ulster this morning. He said the pattern of infections with low hospital admissions and correspondingly deaths, is similar to what happened in the first wave.
That initially the younger healthier generation get it but that doesn't immediately cause a spike in deaths or hospital admissions, however, with the inevitable spread from the younger generation to the older generation in the weeks ahead, the deaths will rise.
There is no evidence that I've seen that says there will not be 1300 deaths in the 6 over the next 5/6 weeks.
The WHO say the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases is between 3-4%.
We are at 1000+ a day at the moment, which could mean 30/40 deaths per day if we continue at the current rate of infection. That could be approx 200 deaths a week, over 5-6 weeks is close to the 1300 mark. All very approximate figures, but the complacency about us not going to get it that bad is a major part of the problem in my opinion.

I still maintain it's highly unlikely. We will see in the next 5/6 weeks though.

It's all guesswork and the experts have shown us that they don't have the foggiest idea.

Is there any conclusive proof that the second wave is any higher than the first or is it just that they now have an established testing and tracing regime in place which is yielding higher positive cases as result?
How many daily new cases are there in reality?
How many actual new cases does the testing system actually capture?
Is it 4 or 5 times higher in reality?
What immunity do asymptomatic people develop?


Whatever way you want to look at it, science has badly let us down.
Jaysus!!  Will we start on the rosary or what?

We're probably 10 months into a pandemic and pretty much none the wiser about it.

Do we have clear answers on immunity, transmission, potency, level of infection?

Not a clue. The virus will probably have burned itself out long before science has solved it.

This is starting to sound a bit like Donald Trump! The virus will have burned itself out? Really?
Where is this science coming from?
In real terms, 10 months is not enough time to fully understand any virus and how it is transmitted, how immunity develops (if at all) or to develop a vaccine.
I do think we know more now than at the beginning....we have a test for a start. We have identified some drugs that help in the recovery. We have vaccines in trial phase. I mean, how fast to you realistically think science can move?
It's not like a movie where the scientists all get together in a lab and have it sorted over the weekend.....it will realistically take years to fully understand this or any virus.

I do hope you are right that we don't get the deaths we all fear. But I think that will only happen if we all keep our distance and follow the regs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 03:42:47 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on October 12, 2020, 03:27:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 03:18:37 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 12, 2020, 03:11:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 03:05:41 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on October 12, 2020, 02:50:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
It will be interesting what happens up north in the next 5/6 weeks.

On the 14th August there were 6,299 cases and the death total was 558.

Around two months later and the cases are up to 20,158 but deaths are only up to 588.

So cases are up 223% yet deaths are only up 5%.

Obviously the surge has only been lately so the real answer on deaths will only be in 5/6 weeks time, you'd imagine by using precedent you'd expect the death rate to be 1,805.

I really don't envisage 1,300 odd Covid deaths in the O6 in the next 5/6 weeks.

I listened to some professor on BBC Radio Ulster this morning. He said the pattern of infections with low hospital admissions and correspondingly deaths, is similar to what happened in the first wave.
That initially the younger healthier generation get it but that doesn't immediately cause a spike in deaths or hospital admissions, however, with the inevitable spread from the younger generation to the older generation in the weeks ahead, the deaths will rise.
There is no evidence that I've seen that says there will not be 1300 deaths in the 6 over the next 5/6 weeks.
The WHO say the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases is between 3-4%.
We are at 1000+ a day at the moment, which could mean 30/40 deaths per day if we continue at the current rate of infection. That could be approx 200 deaths a week, over 5-6 weeks is close to the 1300 mark. All very approximate figures, but the complacency about us not going to get it that bad is a major part of the problem in my opinion.

I still maintain it's highly unlikely. We will see in the next 5/6 weeks though.

It's all guesswork and the experts have shown us that they don't have the foggiest idea.

Is there any conclusive proof that the second wave is any higher than the first or is it just that they now have an established testing and tracing regime in place which is yielding higher positive cases as result?
How many daily new cases are there in reality?
How many actual new cases does the testing system actually capture?
Is it 4 or 5 times higher in reality?
What immunity do asymptomatic people develop?


Whatever way you want to look at it, science has badly let us down.
Jaysus!!  Will we start on the rosary or what?

We're probably 10 months into a pandemic and pretty much none the wiser about it.

Do we have clear answers on immunity, transmission, potency, level of infection?

Not a clue. The virus will probably have burned itself out long before science has solved it.

This is starting to sound a bit like Donald Trump! The virus will have burned itself out? Really?
Where is this science coming from?
In real terms, 10 months is not enough time to fully understand any virus and how it is transmitted, how immunity develops (if at all) or to develop a vaccine.
I do think we know more now than at the beginning....we have a test for a start. We have identified some drugs that help in the recovery. We have vaccines in trial phase. I mean, how fast to you realistically think science can move?
It's not like a movie where the scientists all get together in a lab and have it sorted over the weekend.....it will realistically take years to fully understand this or any virus.

I do hope you are right that we don't get the deaths we all fear. But I think that will only happen if we all keep our distance and follow the regs.

You see that's the thing. We're sitting here waiting for science to correct it and 10 months into the pandemic they are still throwing out guesses. They haven't a f**king notion.

We have a test, right, how accurate is that test? There's a lot of debate going around about that alone.

As I said, we're 10 months into a pandemic and we don't even know the basics, how can we even classify how far the virus has spread? The WHO is speculating that 10% of the world's population has had it at this stage, science would want to get its arse in gear and start getting some answers.

Until we can clarity on immunity and antibodies we are pissing in the wind. The answers will reveal themselves before science does. The damage is done up here at this stage, the virus has spread out of control - now it's simply a matter of time until we realise how potent it actually is.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 03:44:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 12, 2020, 03:23:10 PM
Science us a biteen more complicated than Internet forums/Social media where everything is solved in half an hour.

They're the experts and I would imagine a global pandemic is a pretty pressing matter so it should be of huge concern that the guys tasked with solving this are coming up against a brick wall.

I think the reality is that science won't solve this and we'll just have to wait for it to burn itself out, however long or short that will be.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: oakleafgael on October 12, 2020, 03:47:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 03:44:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 12, 2020, 03:23:10 PM
Science us a biteen more complicated than Internet forums/Social media where everything is solved in half an hour.

They're the experts and I would imagine a global pandemic is a pretty pressing matter so it should be of huge concern that the guys tasked with solving this are coming up against a brick wall.

I think the reality is that science won't solve this and we'll just have to wait for it to burn itself out, however long or short that will be.

Would Rafa not be able to sort it out there?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 12, 2020, 03:49:19 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 12, 2020, 03:47:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 03:44:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 12, 2020, 03:23:10 PM
Science us a biteen more complicated than Internet forums/Social media where everything is solved in half an hour.

They're the experts and I would imagine a global pandemic is a pretty pressing matter so it should be of huge concern that the guys tasked with solving this are coming up against a brick wall.

I think the reality is that science won't solve this and we'll just have to wait for it to burn itself out, however long or short that will be.

Would Rafa not be able to sort it out there?
;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 03:51:21 PM
Quote from: oakleafgael on October 12, 2020, 03:47:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 03:44:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 12, 2020, 03:23:10 PM
Science us a biteen more complicated than Internet forums/Social media where everything is solved in half an hour.

They're the experts and I would imagine a global pandemic is a pretty pressing matter so it should be of huge concern that the guys tasked with solving this are coming up against a brick wall.

I think the reality is that science won't solve this and we'll just have to wait for it to burn itself out, however long or short that will be.

Would Rafa not be able to sort it out there?

Rafa is the guy who does his job, science must be the other guy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 12, 2020, 04:26:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 12, 2020, 03:23:10 PM
Science us a biteen more complicated than Internet forums/Social media where everything is solved in half an hour.

No. Those feckless cnuts should have it sorted by now. Few numbers into a calculator. Bang. All the answers. It can't be that hard.

The real issue here is that all these science boys won all their expertise at a time when the challenge from viruses was very weak. They were dominant when the main competition was swine flu, bird flu, SARS - viruses that slid down the rankings when the next generation came along. Their dominance has faded hugely when COVID arrived on the scene. It's an all rounder, not like those big mutating giraffes of viruses they faced in the early days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 04:28:40 PM
Seems like I've triggered a load of Fedheads on here.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on October 12, 2020, 04:33:52 PM
Indeed you have. Funny to watch.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 12, 2020, 04:57:05 PM
Good example of 'triggering' on the board yesterday.

Some dose spent his Sunday on a manic two thousand word ramble about a Spanish tennis player to some other people that don't even care.

That was funny to watch too. But maybe not funny haha.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 12, 2020, 04:59:54 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 12, 2020, 04:57:05 PM
Good example of 'triggering' on the board yesterday.

Some dose spent his Sunday on a manic two thousand word ramble about a Spanish tennis player to some other people that don't even care.

That was funny to watch too. But maybe not funny haha.

Odd that it has triggered you all the same.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 12, 2020, 06:17:31 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 12, 2020, 03:22:31 PM
Chris Whitty said on the 21st of September that there would be 50 k cases a day by mid October if drastic action wasn't taken.

I mean, its 14k, up 10% from last week. When the numbers increase at the rate this thing does 50k wasnt a million mile off. Probably be that by November.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 12, 2020, 06:53:35 PM
Dear Scientists of the World

Kindly catch your collective selves on. 10 months deep ffs.

Signed

Internet arseholes

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 12, 2020, 07:25:24 PM
😂😂😂
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on October 12, 2020, 07:26:55 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 12, 2020, 06:17:31 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 12, 2020, 03:22:31 PM
Chris Whitty said on the 21st of September that there would be 50 k cases a day by mid October if drastic action wasn't taken.

I mean, its 14k, up 10% from last week. When the numbers increase at the rate this thing does 50k wasnt a million mile off. Probably be that by November.

Unchecked the numbers will increase exponentially. The rate of doubling at the moment means we'd probably be at over 50k in 2 weeks if there's no intervention measures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 12, 2020, 07:29:22 PM
Watching this now! Surely the north is at tier 3!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on October 12, 2020, 07:59:02 PM
When a test is done on a person, how long is it before they get the results?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on October 12, 2020, 08:02:10 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 12, 2020, 07:59:02 PM
When a test is done on a person, how long is it before they get the results?

A day or two usually
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on October 12, 2020, 08:17:45 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 12, 2020, 08:02:10 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 12, 2020, 07:59:02 PM
When a test is done on a person, how long is it before they get the results?

A day or two usually

So people then are free to do what they like for a day or two?

Really up to them to self isolate then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on October 12, 2020, 08:18:49 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 12, 2020, 08:17:45 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 12, 2020, 08:02:10 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 12, 2020, 07:59:02 PM
When a test is done on a person, how long is it before they get the results?

A day or two usually

So people then are free to do what they like for a day or two?

Really up to them to self isolate then?

I think you are told not to be out and about but people are ignoring that in many cases
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 12, 2020, 08:28:10 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 05, 2020, 03:37:26 PM

12 in ICU with COVID today.
Double the number from last Monday.
Six times the number from 3 Mondays ago.

Clear and scary trend here. Just 20 free beds, at the current rate these will be filled within the fortnight.

22 in ICU with COVID in the north this Monday. Not quite double in a week, but not far off it.

Still 17 free beds, but that seems to be because they've been clearing out non-COVID beds to make room. Down about 20% from the average occupancy all summer.

When people chat about about services for other illnesses taking a back seat because of COVID - this is why. It's not any lockdown cancelling operations or hoarding resources - it's the fact that all focus has to turn to keeping COVID patients alive when they land in big numbers.

And the numbers are getting bigger every week. Something has to give here, and very soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 12, 2020, 08:36:59 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 12, 2020, 08:17:45 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 12, 2020, 08:02:10 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 12, 2020, 07:59:02 PM
When a test is done on a person, how long is it before they get the results?

A day or two usually

So people then are free to do what they like for a day or two?

Really up to them to self isolate then?

A family member tested today. Parents and kids have to stay home until results in a day or two. Was glad to hear they're not for leaving the house until tests are through.

If only all those tested did likewise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 12, 2020, 08:42:50 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 12, 2020, 08:28:10 PM
When people chat about about services for other illnesses taking a back seat because of COVID - this is why. It's not any lockdown cancelling operations or hoarding resources - it's the fact that all focus has to turn to keeping COVID patients alive when they land in big numbers.

Yet those who mention people with other illnesses are generally using them as a justification for keeping things open and so having more Covid, the exact opposite of the truth. The lockdown benefits people with other illnesses , whatever about its other effects.

It is disgraceful how people are misusing ill people to make their case.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 12, 2020, 09:17:31 PM
People pissing about with parties, not wearing masks etc are those putting people's lives and emergency services workers at risk.

They're no different to the bellends who go out swimming in the Atlantic during a storm, putting coast guards, lifeboat volunteers etc lives at risk.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on October 12, 2020, 09:25:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 11, 2020, 11:11:30 AM

I pity any teacher that ever had you.

The virus first came to prominence in China, in Wuhan, the first death from it was announced in January but they have traced back positive cases of Covid to mid November.

Similarly France recorded the first Covid death in mid Feb but have subsequently traced back positive tests to December.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/french-hospital-discovers-it-had-case-of-coronavirus-in-december-1.4245275

So it's clear as day Covid was in circulation months before anyone even knew about it, the likeliest place the virus originated and spread is the point of origin of its outbreak. Wuhan was the first place where it surged and that began to happen around early January but we now know it was in circulation in mid November in China and most likely before that.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/first-covid-19-case-happened-in-november-china-government-records-show-report

I think the first positive case on this island was late Feb? Are you naive enough to think that the first person to test positive for the virus on this island was actually the first person to bring it here when many people can be asymptomatic, when there was no testing, tracking or tracing systems in place, where very limited details of the symptoms and signs of Covid were available beforehand? The logical thing to expect is that the virus arrived in the country months before the first positive case.

The vast majority of people will probably be asymptomatic or suffer mild symptoms similar to a cold or chest infection if they get it. If anyone did get it in December or did get it in January, they would most likely have put it down as a cold or flu and not passed much heed. The bottom line is that we don't know but logic and precedent will tell you that it's highly likely it was here a considerable time before the first positive test.

No need to pity my teachers or any others Angelo, they're a useless lazy bunch of hoors, I wouldn't be surprised if this virus was concocted by the teaching unions to get them off work.

I didn't bother clicking on your links, do you honestly expect me to believe anything written in the Guardian? I never had you pegged as a middle class snowflake, I'm surprised at you. As for that other mouthpiece of the freestate, sure they're nothing more than FFG shills, I find it offensive that you'd even post a link to that rag

Then you're banging on about testing despite it being proven that 95% of tests are inaccurate. You've been sucked in rightly by these scientists Angelo, they're making a complete mug out of you. Open your eyes ffs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on October 12, 2020, 09:26:04 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 12, 2020, 08:18:49 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 12, 2020, 08:17:45 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 12, 2020, 08:02:10 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 12, 2020, 07:59:02 PM
When a test is done on a person, how long is it before they get the results?

A day or two usually

So people then are free to do what they like for a day or two?

Really up to them to self isolate then?

I think you are told not to be out and about but people are ignoring that in many cases

According to the boffins in NUIG 16% are doing just that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 12, 2020, 09:38:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 12, 2020, 08:42:50 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 12, 2020, 08:28:10 PM
When people chat about about services for other illnesses taking a back seat because of COVID - this is why. It's not any lockdown cancelling operations or hoarding resources - it's the fact that all focus has to turn to keeping COVID patients alive when they land in big numbers.

Yet those who mention people with other illnesses are generally using them as a justification for keeping things open and so having more Covid, the exact opposite of the truth. The lockdown benefits people with other illnesses , whatever about its other effects.

It is disgraceful how people are misusing ill people to make their case.

Honestly, that is just not true. In any way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 12, 2020, 10:58:58 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 12, 2020, 09:38:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 12, 2020, 08:42:50 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 12, 2020, 08:28:10 PM
When people chat about about services for other illnesses taking a back seat because of COVID - this is why. It's not any lockdown cancelling operations or hoarding resources - it's the fact that all focus has to turn to keeping COVID patients alive when they land in big numbers.

Yet those who mention people with other illnesses are generally using them as a justification for keeping things open and so having more Covid, the exact opposite of the truth. The lockdown benefits people with other illnesses , whatever about its other effects.

It is disgraceful how people are misusing ill people to make their case.

Honestly, that is just not true. In any way.

+1 That's completely untrue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2020, 11:20:38 PM
lockdown reduces covid numbers in hospitals and therefore increases ability of staff etc. to deal with other illnesses, appointments etc.

no lockdown increases covid numbers in hospitals and therefore reduces the ability of staff etc. to deal with other illnesses, appointments etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 12, 2020, 11:27:50 PM
Arrah Pearse will you go away with your sensible comments.
No place for that kind of thing here.

Meanwhile
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1012/1171122-coronavirus-owen-oflynn/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 12, 2020, 11:34:56 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 12, 2020, 09:38:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 12, 2020, 08:42:50 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 12, 2020, 08:28:10 PM
When people chat about about services for other illnesses taking a back seat because of COVID - this is why. It's not any lockdown cancelling operations or hoarding resources - it's the fact that all focus has to turn to keeping COVID patients alive when they land in big numbers.

Yet those who mention people with other illnesses are generally using them as a justification for keeping things open and so having more Covid, the exact opposite of the truth. The lockdown benefits people with other illnesses , whatever about its other effects.

It is disgraceful how people are misusing ill people to make their case.

Honestly, that is just not true. In any way.

Yes it is and obviously so, an overcrowded health service cannot  properly treat everyone.

meanwhile, the New York Times does not agree with Angelo, science is coming to the rescue.

The worst-case scenario — in which some 2.2 million Americans die from the virus — has not come to pass. Around the world, hundreds of millions of people have made huge sacrifices in shutting down parts of the economy, maintaining social distance and wearing masks.

Those sacrifices have made the possibility of a "twindemic" of coronavirus and influenza infections seem far less likely now, too. The flu season is typically seeded each year in the Northern Hemisphere by travelers from the Southern Hemisphere. But this year the flu season there was almost nonexistent because of anti-coronavirus measures.

Donald also noted that the percentage of infected people who are dying from the virus has been falling because of all of the lessons we've learned during the last few months. Nursing homes have gotten better at protecting their residents, steroids like dexamethasone have lowered the number of deaths, and tactics like rolling patients onto their stomachs and delaying ventilator use have also been shown to help. Pharmaceutical interventions like monoclonal antibodies, still in the early stages of availability, are likely to become even more effective.

Vaccine development has been moving much faster than anticipated in part because the Trump administration's Operation Warp Speed appears to be working. It has put more than $11 billion into seven vaccine candidates, and Moncef Slaoui, the chief scientific adviser on the program, said he expected two to be approved by January, with an efficacy of 75 to 90 percent. Mr. Slaoui also said that factories would produce enough doses for all 330 million Americans to be vaccinated by next June. That all suggests the pandemic in the United States may be over far sooner than expected, possibly by the middle of next year.

Still, we're not there yet — and the pandemic has repeatedly taken a turn for the worse just when things were looking better. Cases are still on the rise in most of the United States and across the world, and experts warn that autumn and winter may be grim as indoor dining, in-school instruction, jet travel and family holidays end up increasing infections, hospitalizations and deaths.

"Pandemics don't end abruptly; they decelerate gradually, like supertankers," Donald wrote. "Even by spring, we will not be entirely safe, but we probably will be safer."
But some chaos still lies ahead

Many leaders — most notably President Trump — have described the arrival of a coronavirus vaccine as an off switch that will instantly normalize our lives. But experts are warning of a perplexing and frustrating period that could follow.

Our colleague Carl Zimmer wrote that when the first vaccine arrives, it may not be the most effective vaccine, offering only moderate protection that will make it prudent to keep wearing a mask.

And the first vaccine to reach the finish line may end up hampering the trials of its competitors.

Volunteers in experimental trials may drop out, slowing down research and regulatory approval. And vaccines that are not as far along might have to prove that they are better than the first shot, resulting in trials that are bigger and take more time. That could lead to steep costs that may halt development.

One possibility: By next spring or summer, there could be a number of vaccines on the market without a clear sense of how to choose among them.

Some of this confusion is inevitable, but it's also a result of how the process was designed. Rather than testing a number of vaccines against each other, as the World Health Organization is doing, the United States took a "harmonized approach" that allowed vaccine companies to run their own trials as long as they followed certain guidelines.

Finally, drug companies and regulators will have to monitor patients, even after clinical trials are over, to look for rare but dangerous side effects. Random events — like a group of older people all having strokes shortly after being vaccinated — could raise the possibility that the vaccine was the culprit. The uncertainty may lead some people to avoid vaccines entirely, which would weaken our collective ability to fight Covid-19.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 12, 2020, 11:38:32 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 12, 2020, 10:58:58 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 12, 2020, 09:38:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 12, 2020, 08:42:50 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 12, 2020, 08:28:10 PM
When people chat about about services for other illnesses taking a back seat because of COVID - this is why. It's not any lockdown cancelling operations or hoarding resources - it's the fact that all focus has to turn to keeping COVID patients alive when they land in big numbers.

Yet those who mention people with other illnesses are generally using them as a justification for keeping things open and so having more Covid, the exact opposite of the truth. The lockdown benefits people with other illnesses , whatever about its other effects.

It is disgraceful how people are misusing ill people to make their case.

Honestly, that is just not true. In any way.

+1 That's completely untrue.

Non-COVID ICU bed occupancy in the north shrank by 20% in the last week or so.

Did 20% fewer people just happen to not get seriously ill during the exact week COVID bed demand spiked?

Or were various operations and procedures that would've necessitated a stay in ICU afterwards cancelled to make room for the developing wave of COVID patients?

I can't be sure of the answer, but likely most people I could make a fairly educated guess.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 12, 2020, 11:39:13 PM
Science has failed because it did not come up with a vaccine in six months

It failed because of the pesky scientific method

Science needs an unscientific method to thrive again

Internet expert, October 2020
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 12, 2020, 11:43:54 PM
If only the WHO and 180 or whatever Governments had listened to Karen.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 13, 2020, 12:09:17 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2020, 11:20:38 PM
lockdown reduces covid numbers in hospitals and therefore increases ability of staff etc. to deal with other illnesses, appointments etc.

no lockdown increases covid numbers in hospitals and therefore reduces the ability of staff etc. to deal with other illnesses, appointments etc.

Exactly, that is what I was trying to say.
Let those who argue that this is not true provide some counter argument against it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on October 13, 2020, 07:55:11 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 12, 2020, 08:36:59 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 12, 2020, 08:17:45 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on October 12, 2020, 08:02:10 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 12, 2020, 07:59:02 PM
When a test is done on a person, how long is it before they get the results?

A day or two usually

So people then are free to do what they like for a day or two?

Really up to them to self isolate then?

A family member tested today. Parents and kids have to stay home until results in a day or two. Was glad to hear they're not for leaving the house until tests are through.

If only all those tested did likewise.
It's amazing there are people out there who think they're free to do what they want in the couple of days they might have to wait for their results. They'd have to be thickos to even ask the question.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 13, 2020, 08:34:39 AM
There is almost no chance it can be plain old stupidity Hound; it has to be a wilful and premeditated choice.

There is no defending it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 13, 2020, 08:48:34 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/irish-musicians-post-video-in-call-for-help-from-budget-2021-1.4379476
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 09:18:04 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 13, 2020, 12:09:17 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2020, 11:20:38 PM
lockdown reduces covid numbers in hospitals and therefore increases ability of staff etc. to deal with other illnesses, appointments etc.

no lockdown increases covid numbers in hospitals and therefore reduces the ability of staff etc. to deal with other illnesses, appointments etc.

Exactly, that is what I was trying to say.
Let those who argue that this is not true provide some counter argument against it.

Right, well, so when multiple people that I know personally had operations or procedures cancelled - and have since been cancelled indefinitely because they were not Covid related how in any way, does that help them?

How in your utopia of lockdown, do you think that is a better service? Also consider, the knock on effect from all these cancellations and now the backlog.

If your adamant that lockdown helps those with other illnesses, I can give you first hand, multiple instances when it certainly does not.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 13, 2020, 09:47:05 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 13, 2020, 12:09:17 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2020, 11:20:38 PM
lockdown reduces covid numbers in hospitals and therefore increases ability of staff etc. to deal with other illnesses, appointments etc.

no lockdown increases covid numbers in hospitals and therefore reduces the ability of staff etc. to deal with other illnesses, appointments etc.

Exactly, that is what I was trying to say.
Let those who argue that this is not true provide some counter argument against it.

Staff have been repurposed from other areas though to bring in the cover required for Covid and spikes so other areas are down in staff and can't provide the same service. Things like anaesthetists don't do clinics because they are on standby etc. This is what is happening.

What exactly is your argument here? Lockdown equals less cases equals more bandwidth elsewhere in the health service?

Lockdown or not spikes in a) nhs staff in departments or b) the general public have to be planned for and take away from other services.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 09:56:57 AM
Can I ask, who considers lockdown to be a "utopia", as is being claimed?

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

Because this seems to be the implication


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2020, 10:01:20 AM
Ministers meeting today to decided what to do here... Medical advisers looking/advising for a 4-6 week lockdown, the minsters will probably go for a tier system rather than full lock down, or a full lockdown for 3/4 weeks ..

Either way it will be great from a admissions and dealing with the current influx of Covid patients point of view, but a body blow to some business that have just opened..

The financial package offered may help but we could be doing this till at the very least till June next year, judging by the state of the vaccine trials
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 10:06:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 09:56:57 AM
Can I ask, who considers lockdown to be a "utopia", as is being claimed?

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

Because this seems to be the implication

Nobody is saying that.

The point was made that lockdown benefits people with other illnesses.

That is certainly not the experiences of others that I have bore witness to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 13, 2020, 10:07:16 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 13, 2020, 09:55:27 AM
Aren't you saying that Covid is bad for people with other illnesses rather than lockdown is bad for people with other illnesses though?

It's kind of both tbh.

Mr is there a financial package though? The health service in the north is going to be at creaking point very soon with the numbers growing as they are. I thought it would have been full lockdown last week and tbh thought the only reason was due to a lack of financial package.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 10:12:08 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 10:06:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 09:56:57 AM
Can I ask, who considers lockdown to be a "utopia", as is being claimed?

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

Because this seems to be the implication

Nobody is saying that.

The point was made that lockdown benefits people with other illnesses.

That is certainly not the experiences of others that I have bore witness to.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 09:18:04 AM

How in your utopia of lockdown, do you think that is a better service? Also consider, the knock on effect from all these cancellations and now the backlog.
Ahem
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 13, 2020, 10:07:16 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 13, 2020, 09:55:27 AM
Aren't you saying that Covid is bad for people with other illnesses rather than lockdown is bad for people with other illnesses though?

It's kind of both tbh.

Mr is there a financial package though? The health service in the north is going to be at creaking point very soon with the numbers growing as they are. I thought it would have been full lockdown last week and tbh thought the only reason was due to a lack of financial package.

Was there mention of 3/4 of your salary?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 10:19:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 10:12:08 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 10:06:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 09:56:57 AM
Can I ask, who considers lockdown to be a "utopia", as is being claimed?

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

Because this seems to be the implication

Nobody is saying that.

The point was made that lockdown benefits people with other illnesses.

That is certainly not the experiences of others that I have bore witness to.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 09:18:04 AM

How in your utopia of lockdown, do you think that is a better service? Also consider, the knock on effect from all these cancellations and now the backlog.
Ahem

My reference was to your point of -

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

There is nobody of sound mind that can really be saying that lockdown and everything that came with it was beneficial to others with illnesses. I understand their points about how it should have helped, but it most certainly did not help, in reality.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 13, 2020, 10:32:02 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2020, 10:16:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 13, 2020, 10:07:16 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 13, 2020, 09:55:27 AM
Aren't you saying that Covid is bad for people with other illnesses rather than lockdown is bad for people with other illnesses though?

It's kind of both tbh.

Mr is there a financial package though? The health service in the north is going to be at creaking point very soon with the numbers growing as they are. I thought it would have been full lockdown last week and tbh thought the only reason was due to a lack of financial package.

Was there mention of 3/4 of your salary?

Maybe and I missed it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 10:36:25 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 12, 2020, 11:34:56 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 12, 2020, 09:38:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 12, 2020, 08:42:50 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 12, 2020, 08:28:10 PM
When people chat about about services for other illnesses taking a back seat because of COVID - this is why. It's not any lockdown cancelling operations or hoarding resources - it's the fact that all focus has to turn to keeping COVID patients alive when they land in big numbers.

Yet those who mention people with other illnesses are generally using them as a justification for keeping things open and so having more Covid, the exact opposite of the truth. The lockdown benefits people with other illnesses , whatever about its other effects.

It is disgraceful how people are misusing ill people to make their case.

Honestly, that is just not true. In any way.

Yes it is and obviously so, an overcrowded health service cannot  properly treat everyone.

meanwhile, the New York Times does not agree with Angelo, science is coming to the rescue.

The worst-case scenario — in which some 2.2 million Americans die from the virus — has not come to pass. Around the world, hundreds of millions of people have made huge sacrifices in shutting down parts of the economy, maintaining social distance and wearing masks.

Those sacrifices have made the possibility of a "twindemic" of coronavirus and influenza infections seem far less likely now, too. The flu season is typically seeded each year in the Northern Hemisphere by travelers from the Southern Hemisphere. But this year the flu season there was almost nonexistent because of anti-coronavirus measures.

Donald also noted that the percentage of infected people who are dying from the virus has been falling because of all of the lessons we've learned during the last few months. Nursing homes have gotten better at protecting their residents, steroids like dexamethasone have lowered the number of deaths, and tactics like rolling patients onto their stomachs and delaying ventilator use have also been shown to help. Pharmaceutical interventions like monoclonal antibodies, still in the early stages of availability, are likely to become even more effective.

Vaccine development has been moving much faster than anticipated in part because the Trump administration's Operation Warp Speed appears to be working. It has put more than $11 billion into seven vaccine candidates, and Moncef Slaoui, the chief scientific adviser on the program, said he expected two to be approved by January, with an efficacy of 75 to 90 percent. Mr. Slaoui also said that factories would produce enough doses for all 330 million Americans to be vaccinated by next June. That all suggests the pandemic in the United States may be over far sooner than expected, possibly by the middle of next year.

Still, we're not there yet — and the pandemic has repeatedly taken a turn for the worse just when things were looking better. Cases are still on the rise in most of the United States and across the world, and experts warn that autumn and winter may be grim as indoor dining, in-school instruction, jet travel and family holidays end up increasing infections, hospitalizations and deaths.

"Pandemics don't end abruptly; they decelerate gradually, like supertankers," Donald wrote. "Even by spring, we will not be entirely safe, but we probably will be safer."
But some chaos still lies ahead

Many leaders — most notably President Trump — have described the arrival of a coronavirus vaccine as an off switch that will instantly normalize our lives. But experts are warning of a perplexing and frustrating period that could follow.

Our colleague Carl Zimmer wrote that when the first vaccine arrives, it may not be the most effective vaccine, offering only moderate protection that will make it prudent to keep wearing a mask.

And the first vaccine to reach the finish line may end up hampering the trials of its competitors.

Volunteers in experimental trials may drop out, slowing down research and regulatory approval. And vaccines that are not as far along might have to prove that they are better than the first shot, resulting in trials that are bigger and take more time. That could lead to steep costs that may halt development.

One possibility: By next spring or summer, there could be a number of vaccines on the market without a clear sense of how to choose among them.

Some of this confusion is inevitable, but it's also a result of how the process was designed. Rather than testing a number of vaccines against each other, as the World Health Organization is doing, the United States took a "harmonized approach" that allowed vaccine companies to run their own trials as long as they followed certain guidelines.

Finally, drug companies and regulators will have to monitor patients, even after clinical trials are over, to look for rare but dangerous side effects. Random events — like a group of older people all having strokes shortly after being vaccinated — could raise the possibility that the vaccine was the culprit. The uncertainty may lead some people to avoid vaccines entirely, which would weaken our collective ability to fight Covid-19.

It's all guesswork.

Science are still guessing about the basics of the virus, do people really expect them to create a vaccine when they are so conflicted on the fundamentals?

What we have now in the north is the virus running rampant. The death totals in the next 5/6 weeks is going to be telling, by right with the surge in cases we should be seeing huge rises in deaths. If that rise doesn't happen does it then alter our outlook when it comes to living with the virus? Maybe it does, maybe it relaxes restrictions but because science can't give definitive answers on matters such as immunity, transmission, how potent it is then we are all in the dark and that's why I feel it's more likely the virus will have burned itself before science has got a handle on it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 13, 2020, 11:11:19 AM
 ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:14:45 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 13, 2020, 11:11:19 AM
::)

Have you more scaremongering to share with us as you are such an expert?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:18:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 10:19:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 10:12:08 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 10:06:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 09:56:57 AM
Can I ask, who considers lockdown to be a "utopia", as is being claimed?

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

Because this seems to be the implication

Nobody is saying that.

The point was made that lockdown benefits people with other illnesses.

That is certainly not the experiences of others that I have bore witness to.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 09:18:04 AM

How in your utopia of lockdown, do you think that is a better service? Also consider, the knock on effect from all these cancellations and now the backlog.
Ahem

My reference was to your point of -

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

There is nobody of sound mind that can really be saying that lockdown and everything that came with it was beneficial to others with illnesses. I understand their points about how it should have helped, but it most certainly did not help, in reality.
Some posters here have already explained it

It's a very simple point

A situation where Covid is not spreading wildly is clearly a better situation for people with non-Covid medical problems than a situation where Covid is spreading wildly

This is undeniable
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on October 13, 2020, 11:21:17 AM
The Irish soccer team is very much of minor importance in the whole scheme of things. But it does make you wonder why we still don't seem to have a test that reliably tells you if someone has Covid or not!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 11:28:26 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:18:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 10:19:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 10:12:08 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 10:06:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 09:56:57 AM
Can I ask, who considers lockdown to be a "utopia", as is being claimed?

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

Because this seems to be the implication

Nobody is saying that.

The point was made that lockdown benefits people with other illnesses.

That is certainly not the experiences of others that I have bore witness to.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 09:18:04 AM

How in your utopia of lockdown, do you think that is a better service? Also consider, the knock on effect from all these cancellations and now the backlog.
Ahem

My reference was to your point of -

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

There is nobody of sound mind that can really be saying that lockdown and everything that came with it was beneficial to others with illnesses. I understand their points about how it should have helped, but it most certainly did not help, in reality.
Some posters here have already explained it

It's a very simple point

A situation where Covid is not spreading wildly is clearly a better situation for people with non-Covid medical problems than a situation where Covid is spreading wildly

This is undeniable

That would be lovely, except, you know. It has been spreading wildly. for best part of a year now and the more testing we do....the more that becomes obvious despite whatever efforts they do to halt it (that doesn't of course, involve the only sure fire way to actually get a hold of it, in mass testing).

Still doesn't help any poor soul sitting waiting for whatever now due to Covid being the only show in town, a gross injustice of this all.

Not even the most contrarian of our posters here will accept that is right, especially since the survival rate of Covid, is, what it is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I think you'll find "scaremongering" refers to the doom merchants who know nothing about the virus.

The virus has ran riot up North at the minute, the infection levels are rampant. The next 5/6 weeks are going to tell us all about those who dismiss the virus and those who are running around scaremongering. If the scaremongerers are right we are going to see mass deaths in the north overt he next 5/6 weeks in relation to the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:45:53 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 11:28:26 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:18:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 10:19:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 10:12:08 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 10:06:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 09:56:57 AM
Can I ask, who considers lockdown to be a "utopia", as is being claimed?

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

Because this seems to be the implication

Nobody is saying that.

The point was made that lockdown benefits people with other illnesses.

That is certainly not the experiences of others that I have bore witness to.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 09:18:04 AM

How in your utopia of lockdown, do you think that is a better service? Also consider, the knock on effect from all these cancellations and now the backlog.
Ahem

My reference was to your point of -

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

There is nobody of sound mind that can really be saying that lockdown and everything that came with it was beneficial to others with illnesses. I understand their points about how it should have helped, but it most certainly did not help, in reality.
Some posters here have already explained it

It's a very simple point

A situation where Covid is not spreading wildly is clearly a better situation for people with non-Covid medical problems than a situation where Covid is spreading wildly

This is undeniable

That would be lovely, except, you know. It has been spreading wildly. for best part of a year now and the more testing we do....the more that becomes obvious despite whatever efforts they do to halt it (that doesn't of course, involve the only sure fire way to actually get a hold of it, in mass testing).

Still doesn't help any poor soul sitting waiting for whatever now due to Covid being the only show in town, a gross injustice of this all.

Not even the most contrarian of our posters here will accept that is right, especially since the survival rate of Covid, is, what it is.

Plenty of places have largely contained Covid

Lockdowns work in terms of reducing cases and infections

This is undeniable - nobody can point to a lockdown which hasn't worked

It is better for people with non-Covid medical problems to be in a situation where the virus is not spreading wildly than in a situation where it is spreading wildly

Therefore a lockdown will benefit those with non-Covid medical problems vis a vis a situation where Covid is allowed spread


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:48:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:45:53 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 11:28:26 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:18:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 10:19:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 10:12:08 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 10:06:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 09:56:57 AM
Can I ask, who considers lockdown to be a "utopia", as is being claimed?

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

Because this seems to be the implication

Nobody is saying that.

The point was made that lockdown benefits people with other illnesses.

That is certainly not the experiences of others that I have bore witness to.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 09:18:04 AM

How in your utopia of lockdown, do you think that is a better service? Also consider, the knock on effect from all these cancellations and now the backlog.
Ahem

My reference was to your point of -

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

There is nobody of sound mind that can really be saying that lockdown and everything that came with it was beneficial to others with illnesses. I understand their points about how it should have helped, but it most certainly did not help, in reality.
Some posters here have already explained it

It's a very simple point

A situation where Covid is not spreading wildly is clearly a better situation for people with non-Covid medical problems than a situation where Covid is spreading wildly

This is undeniable

That would be lovely, except, you know. It has been spreading wildly. for best part of a year now and the more testing we do....the more that becomes obvious despite whatever efforts they do to halt it (that doesn't of course, involve the only sure fire way to actually get a hold of it, in mass testing).

Still doesn't help any poor soul sitting waiting for whatever now due to Covid being the only show in town, a gross injustice of this all.

Not even the most contrarian of our posters here will accept that is right, especially since the survival rate of Covid, is, what it is.

Plenty of places have largely contained Covid

Lockdowns work in terms of reducing cases and infections

This is undeniable - nobody can point to a lockdown which hasn't worked

It is better for people with non-Covid medical problems to be in a situation where the virus is not spreading wildly than in a situation where it is spreading wildly

Therefore a lockdown will benefit those with non-Covid medical problems vis a vis a situation where Covid is allowed spread

Lockdowns also cause significant economic damage, mass unemployment and mental health problems associated with such.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on October 13, 2020, 11:59:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I've posted this before but it sums up the modern age where anyone can read a post from Facebook and suddenly they a leading expert in that field:

https://medium.com/discourse/the-dunning-kruger-effect-explains-why-society-is-so-screwed-up-1432aca90aa8

Put simply, the Dunning-Kruger Effect is the tendency for people to misjudge their abilities. People with less than average abilities tend to overestimate their true abilities, while those with higher than average abilities tend to not realize how much better they are. That is, some people are too stupid to know how stupid they are, while smart people assume most can do what they can.

The mask argument is a point in case. The amount of "experts" that masks don't work, they affect your breathing and so on is frightening. How hard is it to stick on a mask when in a shop? These so called experts will be in the first in line to call out everybody and anybody for not acting in a timely fashion if the death rate does start to shoot up. I've seen people I know and know well on Facebook sharing content from various right leaning commentators around the world about how this is all a scam, it's big pharma and Bill Gates planning a mega payday and the like. Then without any irony at all they'll share a post from a medical professional asking us to respect social distancing, wear masks and be responsible. The past 6 months months have shown us the best of humanity and the absolute worst. 

If people would simply listen and do the right thing we wouldn't be in the position we are in now. Hearing stories constantly about people going to other family members houses when they have received positive test results or are awaiting test results, school children having sleepovers in each other houses, house parties (which adults who should know better), packed wake houses and so on. It is these things that is dragging this out and unfortunately it is a significant minority engaged in this behaviour. The argument that "sure the children are in a bubble anyway" doesn't wash. That is fine when they are at school where they are at least in a reasonably controlled environment, therefore the spread has not been prolific in schools. Plenty of schools have had to close due to isolated cases but I don't think there has been any major spread of COVID in a school environment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:12:56 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 13, 2020, 11:59:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I've posted this before but it sums up the modern age where anyone can read a post from Facebook and suddenly they a leading expert in that field:

https://medium.com/discourse/the-dunning-kruger-effect-explains-why-society-is-so-screwed-up-1432aca90aa8

Put simply, the Dunning-Kruger Effect is the tendency for people to misjudge their abilities. People with less than average abilities tend to overestimate their true abilities, while those with higher than average abilities tend to not realize how much better they are. That is, some people are too stupid to know how stupid they are, while smart people assume most can do what they can.

The mask argument is a point in case. The amount of "experts" that masks don't work, they affect your breathing and so on is frightening. How hard is it to stick on a mask when in a shop? These so called experts will be in the first in line to call out everybody and anybody for not acting in a timely fashion if the death rate does start to shoot up. I've seen people I know and know well on Facebook sharing content from various right leaning commentators around the world about how this is all a scam, it's big pharma and Bill Gates planning a mega payday and the like. Then without any irony at all they'll share a post from a medical professional asking us to respect social distancing, wear masks and be responsible. The past 6 months months have shown us the best of humanity and the absolute worst. 

If people would simply listen and do the right thing we wouldn't be in the position we are in now. Hearing stories constantly about people going to other family members houses when they have received positive test results or are awaiting test results, school children having sleepovers in each other houses, house parties (which adults who should know better), packed wake houses and so on. It is these things that is dragging this out and unfortunately it is a significant minority engaged in this behaviour. The argument that "sure the children are in a bubble anyway" doesn't wash. That is fine when they are at school where they are at least in a reasonably controlled environment, therefore the spread has not been prolific in schools. Plenty of schools have had to close due to isolated cases but I don't think there has been any major spread of COVID in a school environment.

Listen to who?

The "experts" who say masks work or the "experts" who don't.

This is science in a nutshell, they don't know, none of us do. I've no issue with wearing a mask, sanitising, social distancing, closure of pubs/restaurants, etc, etc.

The north has not acted to enter a second lockdown despite its rampant spread, the Free State more or less has. In many ways the assembly had their hands tied as they did not have the financial means to support a lockdown as Westminister controls the purse strings. I think the FS is scared shitless of their dysfunctional health service and that is what is influencing their every decision down there. Most European countries are taking a much more relaxed approach to a surge in cases.

There are two factors here, the doom merchants who think we are all going to die from the virus and the ones who claim the whole thing is a scam - none of these hysterical two sides know anything more than the others. The rise in cases in the north at present is through the roof - we will see in the next 5/6 weeks how that translates to deaths and that will give us a better idea on who is closer to the truth, the doom merchants or the scam sceptics.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:25:54 PM
If you take Spain as an example.

Spain were hit very hard in the first wave.

At the end of July, they had 325,874 positive cases of Covid and 28,445 deaths - a 9% mortality rate.

From Aug - present, there have been an additional 592,349 positive cases of Covid and an additional 4,679 deaths - a 0.008 mortality rate.

So what does that tell us?

Is the virus losing its potency?
Were the positive cases in the period up to July not properly recorded due to not being prepared for it, testing and tracing systems not being developed enough?
Are we now better able to treat the virus?

That's the data available.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I think you'll find "scaremongering" refers to the doom merchants who know nothing about the virus.

The virus has ran riot up North at the minute, the infection levels are rampant. The next 5/6 weeks are going to tell us all about those who dismiss the virus and those who are running around scaremongering. If the scaremongerers are right we are going to see mass deaths in the north overt he next 5/6 weeks in relation to the virus.

Do you think anybody who doesn't know everything about Covid knows nothing about Covid?

Also these death figures that you feel people have predicted in 5-6 weeks time. Where are you getting that from? Who has made those predictions?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:48:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:48:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:45:53 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 11:28:26 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:18:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 10:19:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 10:12:08 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 10:06:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 09:56:57 AM
Can I ask, who considers lockdown to be a "utopia", as is being claimed?

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

Because this seems to be the implication

Nobody is saying that.

The point was made that lockdown benefits people with other illnesses.

That is certainly not the experiences of others that I have bore witness to.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 09:18:04 AM

How in your utopia of lockdown, do you think that is a better service? Also consider, the knock on effect from all these cancellations and now the backlog.
Ahem

My reference was to your point of -

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

There is nobody of sound mind that can really be saying that lockdown and everything that came with it was beneficial to others with illnesses. I understand their points about how it should have helped, but it most certainly did not help, in reality.
Some posters here have already explained it

It's a very simple point

A situation where Covid is not spreading wildly is clearly a better situation for people with non-Covid medical problems than a situation where Covid is spreading wildly

This is undeniable

That would be lovely, except, you know. It has been spreading wildly. for best part of a year now and the more testing we do....the more that becomes obvious despite whatever efforts they do to halt it (that doesn't of course, involve the only sure fire way to actually get a hold of it, in mass testing).

Still doesn't help any poor soul sitting waiting for whatever now due to Covid being the only show in town, a gross injustice of this all.

Not even the most contrarian of our posters here will accept that is right, especially since the survival rate of Covid, is, what it is.

Plenty of places have largely contained Covid

Lockdowns work in terms of reducing cases and infections

This is undeniable - nobody can point to a lockdown which hasn't worked

It is better for people with non-Covid medical problems to be in a situation where the virus is not spreading wildly than in a situation where it is spreading wildly

Therefore a lockdown will benefit those with non-Covid medical problems vis a vis a situation where Covid is allowed spread

Lockdowns also cause significant economic damage, mass unemployment and mental health problems associated with such.

And not locking down also causes those problems, possibly for longer? You do see that??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 13, 2020, 12:52:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

+1
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:53:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:12:56 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 13, 2020, 11:59:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I've posted this before but it sums up the modern age where anyone can read a post from Facebook and suddenly they a leading expert in that field:

https://medium.com/discourse/the-dunning-kruger-effect-explains-why-society-is-so-screwed-up-1432aca90aa8

Put simply, the Dunning-Kruger Effect is the tendency for people to misjudge their abilities. People with less than average abilities tend to overestimate their true abilities, while those with higher than average abilities tend to not realize how much better they are. That is, some people are too stupid to know how stupid they are, while smart people assume most can do what they can.

The mask argument is a point in case. The amount of "experts" that masks don't work, they affect your breathing and so on is frightening. How hard is it to stick on a mask when in a shop? These so called experts will be in the first in line to call out everybody and anybody for not acting in a timely fashion if the death rate does start to shoot up. I've seen people I know and know well on Facebook sharing content from various right leaning commentators around the world about how this is all a scam, it's big pharma and Bill Gates planning a mega payday and the like. Then without any irony at all they'll share a post from a medical professional asking us to respect social distancing, wear masks and be responsible. The past 6 months months have shown us the best of humanity and the absolute worst. 

If people would simply listen and do the right thing we wouldn't be in the position we are in now. Hearing stories constantly about people going to other family members houses when they have received positive test results or are awaiting test results, school children having sleepovers in each other houses, house parties (which adults who should know better), packed wake houses and so on. It is these things that is dragging this out and unfortunately it is a significant minority engaged in this behaviour. The argument that "sure the children are in a bubble anyway" doesn't wash. That is fine when they are at school where they are at least in a reasonably controlled environment, therefore the spread has not been prolific in schools. Plenty of schools have had to close due to isolated cases but I don't think there has been any major spread of COVID in a school environment.

Listen to who?

The "experts" who say masks work or the "experts" who don't.

This is science in a nutshell, they don't know, none of us do. I've no issue with wearing a mask, sanitising, social distancing, closure of pubs/restaurants, etc, etc.

The north has not acted to enter a second lockdown despite its rampant spread, the Free State more or less has. In many ways the assembly had their hands tied as they did not have the financial means to support a lockdown as Westminister controls the purse strings. I think the FS is scared shitless of their dysfunctional health service and that is what is influencing their every decision down there. Most European countries are taking a much more relaxed approach to a surge in cases.

There are two factors here, the doom merchants who think we are all going to die from the virus and the ones who claim the whole thing is a scam - none of these hysterical two sides know anything more than the others. The rise in cases in the north at present is through the roof - we will see in the next 5/6 weeks how that translates to deaths and that will give us a better idea on who is closer to the truth, the doom merchants or the scam sceptics.

Where these experts involved in public health and concerned about the supply of face masks and the general public buying them up leaving insufficient for medical, care and key workers?

Definitely if you are looking at evidence you would be wise to check the date stamp on said evidence.

What do you think Science should do with new or emerging evidence?

And there you are mentioning this predicted death toll in the North. Who's prediction is that?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:54:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I think you'll find "scaremongering" refers to the doom merchants who know nothing about the virus.

The virus has ran riot up North at the minute, the infection levels are rampant. The next 5/6 weeks are going to tell us all about those who dismiss the virus and those who are running around scaremongering. If the scaremongerers are right we are going to see mass deaths in the north overt he next 5/6 weeks in relation to the virus.

Do you think anybody who doesn't know everything about Covid knows nothing about Covid?

Also these death figures that you feel people have predicted in 5-6 weeks time. Where are you getting that from? Who has made those predictions?

I'm just going on the doom merchants beliefs. If this virus is as deadly and dangerous as they believe then surely there will be catastrophic numbers of fatalities in the north in the next 5/6 weeks when you look at how rampant infection rates have been of late.

I have no idea what way it will go but if you are on the scaremongering side then you would believe we are probably looking at death totals in line with the first wave which would point to 7-800 deaths in the next 5/6 weeks?

Do you think shutting down of the economy, loss of livelihoods, employment and all other negative knock on factors that lockdowns mean are neccessary for a virus that might just have a 0.008 mortality rate for confirmed positive cases - many of whom already might have terminal illnesses or underlying conditions?

If you had to hop into your car today to go on a 50 mile round trip and you were told there was a 0.008 chance you or someone will die as a result, would you take that chance?

I don't know this but the data with regards to this over the next 6 weeks will answer a lot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:56:40 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:53:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:12:56 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 13, 2020, 11:59:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I've posted this before but it sums up the modern age where anyone can read a post from Facebook and suddenly they a leading expert in that field:

https://medium.com/discourse/the-dunning-kruger-effect-explains-why-society-is-so-screwed-up-1432aca90aa8

Put simply, the Dunning-Kruger Effect is the tendency for people to misjudge their abilities. People with less than average abilities tend to overestimate their true abilities, while those with higher than average abilities tend to not realize how much better they are. That is, some people are too stupid to know how stupid they are, while smart people assume most can do what they can.

The mask argument is a point in case. The amount of "experts" that masks don't work, they affect your breathing and so on is frightening. How hard is it to stick on a mask when in a shop? These so called experts will be in the first in line to call out everybody and anybody for not acting in a timely fashion if the death rate does start to shoot up. I've seen people I know and know well on Facebook sharing content from various right leaning commentators around the world about how this is all a scam, it's big pharma and Bill Gates planning a mega payday and the like. Then without any irony at all they'll share a post from a medical professional asking us to respect social distancing, wear masks and be responsible. The past 6 months months have shown us the best of humanity and the absolute worst. 

If people would simply listen and do the right thing we wouldn't be in the position we are in now. Hearing stories constantly about people going to other family members houses when they have received positive test results or are awaiting test results, school children having sleepovers in each other houses, house parties (which adults who should know better), packed wake houses and so on. It is these things that is dragging this out and unfortunately it is a significant minority engaged in this behaviour. The argument that "sure the children are in a bubble anyway" doesn't wash. That is fine when they are at school where they are at least in a reasonably controlled environment, therefore the spread has not been prolific in schools. Plenty of schools have had to close due to isolated cases but I don't think there has been any major spread of COVID in a school environment.

Listen to who?

The "experts" who say masks work or the "experts" who don't.

This is science in a nutshell, they don't know, none of us do. I've no issue with wearing a mask, sanitising, social distancing, closure of pubs/restaurants, etc, etc.

The north has not acted to enter a second lockdown despite its rampant spread, the Free State more or less has. In many ways the assembly had their hands tied as they did not have the financial means to support a lockdown as Westminister controls the purse strings. I think the FS is scared shitless of their dysfunctional health service and that is what is influencing their every decision down there. Most European countries are taking a much more relaxed approach to a surge in cases.

There are two factors here, the doom merchants who think we are all going to die from the virus and the ones who claim the whole thing is a scam - none of these hysterical two sides know anything more than the others. The rise in cases in the north at present is through the roof - we will see in the next 5/6 weeks how that translates to deaths and that will give us a better idea on who is closer to the truth, the doom merchants or the scam sceptics.

Where these experts involved in public health and concerned about the supply of face masks and the general public buying them up leaving insufficient for medical, care and key workers?

Definitely if you are looking at evidence you would be wise to check the date stamp on said evidence.

What do you think Science should do with new or emerging evidence?

And there you are mentioning this predicted death toll in the North. Who's prediction is that?

Are you asking me to do sciences job for them?

They are the ones tasked with this and the ones failing to provide answers and clarity which is what we require from them in an ever pressing manner, where time is of the utmost importance. You might have faith in science to solve this but its probably one of those things that will solve itself at enormous cost to the human race before science can.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:58:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:25:54 PM
If you take Spain as an example.

Spain were hit very hard in the first wave.

At the end of July, they had 325,874 positive cases of Covid and 28,445 deaths - a 9% mortality rate.

From Aug - present, there have been an additional 592,349 positive cases of Covid and an additional 4,679 deaths - a 0.008 mortality rate.

So what does that tell us?

Is the virus losing its potency?
Were the positive cases in the period up to July not properly recorded due to not being prepared for it, testing and tracing systems not being developed enough?
Are we now better able to treat the virus?

That's the data available.

It tells us Spain are testing more.
More testing means more positives and way more asymptomatic Positives.

It tells us that a lot of the most vulnerable are already dead (though more will become vulnerable over time)
It tells us that understanding of the virus has improved in terms of treatment and not doing stupid things like releases into nursing homes and reuse of PPE
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

You asked me for an expert who said masks don't work. There;s an expert who said it.

Here's another one.

https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/

So rather than trying to move the goalposts now, why don't you just accept that is significant difference of opinion from the "experts" on whether face masks actually work or not.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:00:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:58:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:25:54 PM
If you take Spain as an example.

Spain were hit very hard in the first wave.

At the end of July, they had 325,874 positive cases of Covid and 28,445 deaths - a 9% mortality rate.

From Aug - present, there have been an additional 592,349 positive cases of Covid and an additional 4,679 deaths - a 0.008 mortality rate.

So what does that tell us?

Is the virus losing its potency?
Were the positive cases in the period up to July not properly recorded due to not being prepared for it, testing and tracing systems not being developed enough?
Are we now better able to treat the virus?

That's the data available.

It tells us Spain are testing more.
More testing means more positives and way more asymptomatic Positives.

It tells us that a lot of the most vulnerable are already dead (though more will become vulnerable over time)
It tells us that understanding of the virus has improved in terms of treatment and not doing stupid things like releases into nursing homes and reuse of PPE

Can we live with a virus with a 0.008 mortality rate?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 01:02:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:54:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I think you'll find "scaremongering" refers to the doom merchants who know nothing about the virus.

The virus has ran riot up North at the minute, the infection levels are rampant. The next 5/6 weeks are going to tell us all about those who dismiss the virus and those who are running around scaremongering. If the scaremongerers are right we are going to see mass deaths in the north overt he next 5/6 weeks in relation to the virus.

Do you think anybody who doesn't know everything about Covid knows nothing about Covid?

Also these death figures that you feel people have predicted in 5-6 weeks time. Where are you getting that from? Who has made those predictions?

I'm just going on the doom merchants beliefs. If this virus is as deadly and dangerous as they believe then surely there will be catastrophic numbers of fatalities in the north in the next 5/6 weeks when you look at how rampant infection rates have been of late.

I have no idea what way it will go but if you are on the scaremongering side then you would believe we are probably looking at death totals in line with the first wave which would point to 7-800 deaths in the next 5/6 weeks?

Do you think shutting down of the economy, loss of livelihoods, employment and all other negative knock on factors that lockdowns mean are neccessary for a virus that might just have a 0.008 mortality rate for confirmed positive cases - many of whom already might have terminal illnesses or underlying conditions?

If you had to hop into your car today to go on a 50 mile round trip and you were told there was a 0.008 chance you or someone will die as a result, would you take that chance?

I don't know this but the data with regards to this over the next 6 weeks will answer a lot.
I'm not getting in the car unless I am driving, on my own!  Otherwise not taking the chance.  The old chestnut (great seasonal pun!!) - Health v Wealth.  By the way, is the 50 mile trip really necessary?  People spread the disease not cars.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:04:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:54:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I think you'll find "scaremongering" refers to the doom merchants who know nothing about the virus.

The virus has ran riot up North at the minute, the infection levels are rampant. The next 5/6 weeks are going to tell us all about those who dismiss the virus and those who are running around scaremongering. If the scaremongerers are right we are going to see mass deaths in the north overt he next 5/6 weeks in relation to the virus.

Do you think anybody who doesn't know everything about Covid knows nothing about Covid?

Also these death figures that you feel people have predicted in 5-6 weeks time. Where are you getting that from? Who has made those predictions?

I'm just going on the doom merchants beliefs. If this virus is as deadly and dangerous as they believe then surely there will be catastrophic numbers of fatalities in the north in the next 5/6 weeks when you look at how rampant infection rates have been of late.

I have no idea what way it will go but if you are on the scaremongering side then you would believe we are probably looking at death totals in line with the first wave which would point to 7-800 deaths in the next 5/6 weeks?

Do you think shutting down of the economy, loss of livelihoods, employment and all other negative knock on factors that lockdowns mean are neccessary for a virus that might just have a 0.008 mortality rate for confirmed positive cases - many of whom already might have terminal illnesses or underlying conditions?

If you had to hop into your car today to go on a 50 mile round trip and you were told there was a 0.008 chance you or someone will die as a result, would you take that chance?

I don't know this but the data with regards to this over the next 6 weeks will answer a lot.

You keep repeating over and over again these predictions. Post the link to them.

I strongly suspect you are a devious liar. You are attempting to repeat this lie enough times so that you grandstand when the prediction of precisely nobody doesn't come true.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:05:44 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 01:02:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:54:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I think you'll find "scaremongering" refers to the doom merchants who know nothing about the virus.

The virus has ran riot up North at the minute, the infection levels are rampant. The next 5/6 weeks are going to tell us all about those who dismiss the virus and those who are running around scaremongering. If the scaremongerers are right we are going to see mass deaths in the north overt he next 5/6 weeks in relation to the virus.

Do you think anybody who doesn't know everything about Covid knows nothing about Covid?

Also these death figures that you feel people have predicted in 5-6 weeks time. Where are you getting that from? Who has made those predictions?

I'm just going on the doom merchants beliefs. If this virus is as deadly and dangerous as they believe then surely there will be catastrophic numbers of fatalities in the north in the next 5/6 weeks when you look at how rampant infection rates have been of late.

I have no idea what way it will go but if you are on the scaremongering side then you would believe we are probably looking at death totals in line with the first wave which would point to 7-800 deaths in the next 5/6 weeks?

Do you think shutting down of the economy, loss of livelihoods, employment and all other negative knock on factors that lockdowns mean are neccessary for a virus that might just have a 0.008 mortality rate for confirmed positive cases - many of whom already might have terminal illnesses or underlying conditions?

If you had to hop into your car today to go on a 50 mile round trip and you were told there was a 0.008 chance you or someone will die as a result, would you take that chance?

I don't know this but the data with regards to this over the next 6 weeks will answer a lot.
I'm not getting in the car unless I am driving, on my own!  Otherwise not taking the chance.  The old chestnut (great seasonal pun!!) - Health v Wealth.  By the way, is the 50 mile trip really necessary?  People spread the disease not cars.

Have you ever done a 50 mile car trip to go to town, to go to a match, to travel to an airport, to go shopping, to visit a friend/relative?

Were any of those trips necessary? Would you ever make one of those trips again if you knew it carried a 0.008% chance of killing someone?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:06:44 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:04:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:54:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I think you'll find "scaremongering" refers to the doom merchants who know nothing about the virus.

The virus has ran riot up North at the minute, the infection levels are rampant. The next 5/6 weeks are going to tell us all about those who dismiss the virus and those who are running around scaremongering. If the scaremongerers are right we are going to see mass deaths in the north overt he next 5/6 weeks in relation to the virus.

Do you think anybody who doesn't know everything about Covid knows nothing about Covid?

Also these death figures that you feel people have predicted in 5-6 weeks time. Where are you getting that from? Who has made those predictions?

I'm just going on the doom merchants beliefs. If this virus is as deadly and dangerous as they believe then surely there will be catastrophic numbers of fatalities in the north in the next 5/6 weeks when you look at how rampant infection rates have been of late.

I have no idea what way it will go but if you are on the scaremongering side then you would believe we are probably looking at death totals in line with the first wave which would point to 7-800 deaths in the next 5/6 weeks?

Do you think shutting down of the economy, loss of livelihoods, employment and all other negative knock on factors that lockdowns mean are neccessary for a virus that might just have a 0.008 mortality rate for confirmed positive cases - many of whom already might have terminal illnesses or underlying conditions?

If you had to hop into your car today to go on a 50 mile round trip and you were told there was a 0.008 chance you or someone will die as a result, would you take that chance?

I don't know this but the data with regards to this over the next 6 weeks will answer a lot.

You keep repeating over and over again these predictions. Post the link to them.

I strongly suspect you are a devious liar. You are attempting to repeat this lie enough times so that you grandstand when the prediction of precisely nobody doesn't come true.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

You strongly expect I am a devious liar. Go look at the data in the link then numbnuts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:08:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:00:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:58:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:25:54 PM
If you take Spain as an example.

Spain were hit very hard in the first wave.

At the end of July, they had 325,874 positive cases of Covid and 28,445 deaths - a 9% mortality rate.

From Aug - present, there have been an additional 592,349 positive cases of Covid and an additional 4,679 deaths - a 0.008 mortality rate.

So what does that tell us?

Is the virus losing its potency?
Were the positive cases in the period up to July not properly recorded due to not being prepared for it, testing and tracing systems not being developed enough?
Are we now better able to treat the virus?

That's the data available.

It tells us Spain are testing more.
More testing means more positives and way more asymptomatic Positives.

It tells us that a lot of the most vulnerable are already dead (though more will become vulnerable over time)
It tells us that understanding of the virus has improved in terms of treatment and not doing stupid things like releases into nursing homes and reuse of PPE

Can we live with a virus with a 0.008 mortality rate?

Depends.

Depends on the rate of infection.
Depends on the morbidity rates
Depends on what steps could get the mortality rate and rates of infection lower


And it obviously also depend on the accuracy of the figure
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 01:09:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:05:44 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 01:02:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:54:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I think you'll find "scaremongering" refers to the doom merchants who know nothing about the virus.

The virus has ran riot up North at the minute, the infection levels are rampant. The next 5/6 weeks are going to tell us all about those who dismiss the virus and those who are running around scaremongering. If the scaremongerers are right we are going to see mass deaths in the north overt he next 5/6 weeks in relation to the virus.

Do you think anybody who doesn't know everything about Covid knows nothing about Covid?

Also these death figures that you feel people have predicted in 5-6 weeks time. Where are you getting that from? Who has made those predictions?

I'm just going on the doom merchants beliefs. If this virus is as deadly and dangerous as they believe then surely there will be catastrophic numbers of fatalities in the north in the next 5/6 weeks when you look at how rampant infection rates have been of late.

I have no idea what way it will go but if you are on the scaremongering side then you would believe we are probably looking at death totals in line with the first wave which would point to 7-800 deaths in the next 5/6 weeks?

Do you think shutting down of the economy, loss of livelihoods, employment and all other negative knock on factors that lockdowns mean are neccessary for a virus that might just have a 0.008 mortality rate for confirmed positive cases - many of whom already might have terminal illnesses or underlying conditions?

If you had to hop into your car today to go on a 50 mile round trip and you were told there was a 0.008 chance you or someone will die as a result, would you take that chance?

I don't know this but the data with regards to this over the next 6 weeks will answer a lot.
I'm not getting in the car unless I am driving, on my own!  Otherwise not taking the chance.  The old chestnut (great seasonal pun!!) - Health v Wealth.  By the way, is the 50 mile trip really necessary?  People spread the disease not cars.

Have you ever done a 50 mile car trip to go to town, to go to a match, to travel to an airport, to go shopping, to visit a friend/relative?

Were any of those trips necessary? Would you ever make one of those trips again if you knew it carried a 0.008% chance of killing someone?
I haven't done any of those since March.  If I thought there was any chance I would kill someone - no.  Although if I could just gently bump into Mr Brolly, then ....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:10:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:56:40 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:53:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:12:56 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 13, 2020, 11:59:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I've posted this before but it sums up the modern age where anyone can read a post from Facebook and suddenly they a leading expert in that field:

https://medium.com/discourse/the-dunning-kruger-effect-explains-why-society-is-so-screwed-up-1432aca90aa8

Put simply, the Dunning-Kruger Effect is the tendency for people to misjudge their abilities. People with less than average abilities tend to overestimate their true abilities, while those with higher than average abilities tend to not realize how much better they are. That is, some people are too stupid to know how stupid they are, while smart people assume most can do what they can.

The mask argument is a point in case. The amount of "experts" that masks don't work, they affect your breathing and so on is frightening. How hard is it to stick on a mask when in a shop? These so called experts will be in the first in line to call out everybody and anybody for not acting in a timely fashion if the death rate does start to shoot up. I've seen people I know and know well on Facebook sharing content from various right leaning commentators around the world about how this is all a scam, it's big pharma and Bill Gates planning a mega payday and the like. Then without any irony at all they'll share a post from a medical professional asking us to respect social distancing, wear masks and be responsible. The past 6 months months have shown us the best of humanity and the absolute worst. 

If people would simply listen and do the right thing we wouldn't be in the position we are in now. Hearing stories constantly about people going to other family members houses when they have received positive test results or are awaiting test results, school children having sleepovers in each other houses, house parties (which adults who should know better), packed wake houses and so on. It is these things that is dragging this out and unfortunately it is a significant minority engaged in this behaviour. The argument that "sure the children are in a bubble anyway" doesn't wash. That is fine when they are at school where they are at least in a reasonably controlled environment, therefore the spread has not been prolific in schools. Plenty of schools have had to close due to isolated cases but I don't think there has been any major spread of COVID in a school environment.

Listen to who?

The "experts" who say masks work or the "experts" who don't.

This is science in a nutshell, they don't know, none of us do. I've no issue with wearing a mask, sanitising, social distancing, closure of pubs/restaurants, etc, etc.

The north has not acted to enter a second lockdown despite its rampant spread, the Free State more or less has. In many ways the assembly had their hands tied as they did not have the financial means to support a lockdown as Westminister controls the purse strings. I think the FS is scared shitless of their dysfunctional health service and that is what is influencing their every decision down there. Most European countries are taking a much more relaxed approach to a surge in cases.

There are two factors here, the doom merchants who think we are all going to die from the virus and the ones who claim the whole thing is a scam - none of these hysterical two sides know anything more than the others. The rise in cases in the north at present is through the roof - we will see in the next 5/6 weeks how that translates to deaths and that will give us a better idea on who is closer to the truth, the doom merchants or the scam sceptics.

Where these experts involved in public health and concerned about the supply of face masks and the general public buying them up leaving insufficient for medical, care and key workers?

Definitely if you are looking at evidence you would be wise to check the date stamp on said evidence.

What do you think Science should do with new or emerging evidence?

And there you are mentioning this predicted death toll in the North. Who's prediction is that?

Are you asking me to do sciences job for them?

They are the ones tasked with this and the ones failing to provide answers and clarity which is what we require from them in an ever pressing manner, where time is of the utmost importance. You might have faith in science to solve this but its probably one of those things that will solve itself at enormous cost to the human race before science can.

Talk me through this solving itself idea?

Also Public Officials have to have an eye on what is possible. Not just utopia
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on October 13, 2020, 01:12:32 PM
I think Angelo does have a point.

I was in many meetings with experts back in March/April when this was at its worst and the advice to my company was no point wearing masks. Plenty of experts on TV and in the WHO said the same. So things change and the experts changed their opinion which is fine and normal. But it does show that experts can be wrong and are not infallible. So the point is this, we do need to trust the opinion of the experts once they indulge us in answering our questions, providing the data on which they based their opinions. I don't think it is right to simply say - I am an expert dont question me. I think it was perfectly fine the GAA for example asked for the data which showed their games were contributing. The minute you start treating Tony Holohan as a god who owes us no explanation is the minute you are in trouble. Even good science needs to be critiqued.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:13:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:06:44 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:04:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:54:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I think you'll find "scaremongering" refers to the doom merchants who know nothing about the virus.

The virus has ran riot up North at the minute, the infection levels are rampant. The next 5/6 weeks are going to tell us all about those who dismiss the virus and those who are running around scaremongering. If the scaremongerers are right we are going to see mass deaths in the north overt he next 5/6 weeks in relation to the virus.

Do you think anybody who doesn't know everything about Covid knows nothing about Covid?

Also these death figures that you feel people have predicted in 5-6 weeks time. Where are you getting that from? Who has made those predictions?

I'm just going on the doom merchants beliefs. If this virus is as deadly and dangerous as they believe then surely there will be catastrophic numbers of fatalities in the north in the next 5/6 weeks when you look at how rampant infection rates have been of late.

I have no idea what way it will go but if you are on the scaremongering side then you would believe we are probably looking at death totals in line with the first wave which would point to 7-800 deaths in the next 5/6 weeks?

Do you think shutting down of the economy, loss of livelihoods, employment and all other negative knock on factors that lockdowns mean are neccessary for a virus that might just have a 0.008 mortality rate for confirmed positive cases - many of whom already might have terminal illnesses or underlying conditions?

If you had to hop into your car today to go on a 50 mile round trip and you were told there was a 0.008 chance you or someone will die as a result, would you take that chance?

I don't know this but the data with regards to this over the next 6 weeks will answer a lot.

You keep repeating over and over again these predictions. Post the link to them.

I strongly suspect you are a devious liar. You are attempting to repeat this lie enough times so that you grandstand when the prediction of precisely nobody doesn't come true.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

You strongly expect I am a devious liar. Go look at the data in the link then numbnuts.

Couldn't get the Northern Ireland prediction there. Post it again please
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:15:10 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 01:09:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:05:44 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 01:02:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:54:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I think you'll find "scaremongering" refers to the doom merchants who know nothing about the virus.

The virus has ran riot up North at the minute, the infection levels are rampant. The next 5/6 weeks are going to tell us all about those who dismiss the virus and those who are running around scaremongering. If the scaremongerers are right we are going to see mass deaths in the north overt he next 5/6 weeks in relation to the virus.

Do you think anybody who doesn't know everything about Covid knows nothing about Covid?

Also these death figures that you feel people have predicted in 5-6 weeks time. Where are you getting that from? Who has made those predictions?

I'm just going on the doom merchants beliefs. If this virus is as deadly and dangerous as they believe then surely there will be catastrophic numbers of fatalities in the north in the next 5/6 weeks when you look at how rampant infection rates have been of late.

I have no idea what way it will go but if you are on the scaremongering side then you would believe we are probably looking at death totals in line with the first wave which would point to 7-800 deaths in the next 5/6 weeks?

Do you think shutting down of the economy, loss of livelihoods, employment and all other negative knock on factors that lockdowns mean are neccessary for a virus that might just have a 0.008 mortality rate for confirmed positive cases - many of whom already might have terminal illnesses or underlying conditions?

If you had to hop into your car today to go on a 50 mile round trip and you were told there was a 0.008 chance you or someone will die as a result, would you take that chance?

I don't know this but the data with regards to this over the next 6 weeks will answer a lot.
I'm not getting in the car unless I am driving, on my own!  Otherwise not taking the chance.  The old chestnut (great seasonal pun!!) - Health v Wealth.  By the way, is the 50 mile trip really necessary?  People spread the disease not cars.

Have you ever done a 50 mile car trip to go to town, to go to a match, to travel to an airport, to go shopping, to visit a friend/relative?

Were any of those trips necessary? Would you ever make one of those trips again if you knew it carried a 0.008% chance of killing someone?
I haven't done any of those since March.  If I thought there was any chance I would kill someone - no.  Although if I could just gently bump into Mr Brolly, then ....

So you're never going to get behind the wheel of a car again or get in a car to go to a football match, or visit a friend of relative or go to town?

You do realise how ridiculous that sounds?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 01:15:44 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 13, 2020, 01:12:32 PM
I think Angelo does have a point.

I was in many meetings with experts back in March/April when this was at its worst and the advice to my company was no point wearing masks. Plenty of experts on TV and in the WHO said the same. So things change and the experts changed their opinion which is fine and normal. But it does show that experts can be wrong and are not infallible. So the point is this, we do need to trust the opinion of the experts once they indulge us in answering our questions, providing the data on which they based their opinions. I don't think it is right to simply say - I am an expert dont question me. I think it was perfectly fine the GAA for example asked for the data which showed their games were contributing. The minute you start treating Tony Holohan as a god who owes us no explanation is the minute you are in trouble. Even good science needs to be critiqued.
Of course he has a point - but how much are you prepared to gamble?  Some people don't gamble at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ballinaman on October 13, 2020, 01:18:50 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 13, 2020, 01:12:32 PM
I think Angelo does have a point.

I was in many meetings with experts back in March/April when this was at its worst and the advice to my company was no point wearing masks. Plenty of experts on TV and in the WHO said the same. So things change and the experts changed their opinion which is fine and normal. But it does show that experts can be wrong and are not infallible. So the point is this, we do need to trust the opinion of the experts once they indulge us in answering our questions, providing the data on which they based their opinions. I don't think it is right to simply say - I am an expert dont question me. I think it was perfectly fine the GAA for example asked for the data which showed their games were contributing. The minute you start treating Tony Holohan as a god who owes us no explanation is the minute you are in trouble. Even good science needs to be critiqued.
Agreed ,

People find it difficult to change thinking when beliefs have been entrenched .

Regarding Spain , they've been hammered by cases since late August...death rate stable however, with a slight seasonal rise in last number of weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:19:11 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:13:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:06:44 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:04:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:54:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I think you'll find "scaremongering" refers to the doom merchants who know nothing about the virus.

The virus has ran riot up North at the minute, the infection levels are rampant. The next 5/6 weeks are going to tell us all about those who dismiss the virus and those who are running around scaremongering. If the scaremongerers are right we are going to see mass deaths in the north overt he next 5/6 weeks in relation to the virus.

Do you think anybody who doesn't know everything about Covid knows nothing about Covid?

Also these death figures that you feel people have predicted in 5-6 weeks time. Where are you getting that from? Who has made those predictions?

I'm just going on the doom merchants beliefs. If this virus is as deadly and dangerous as they believe then surely there will be catastrophic numbers of fatalities in the north in the next 5/6 weeks when you look at how rampant infection rates have been of late.

I have no idea what way it will go but if you are on the scaremongering side then you would believe we are probably looking at death totals in line with the first wave which would point to 7-800 deaths in the next 5/6 weeks?

Do you think shutting down of the economy, loss of livelihoods, employment and all other negative knock on factors that lockdowns mean are neccessary for a virus that might just have a 0.008 mortality rate for confirmed positive cases - many of whom already might have terminal illnesses or underlying conditions?

If you had to hop into your car today to go on a 50 mile round trip and you were told there was a 0.008 chance you or someone will die as a result, would you take that chance?

I don't know this but the data with regards to this over the next 6 weeks will answer a lot.

You keep repeating over and over again these predictions. Post the link to them.

I strongly suspect you are a devious liar. You are attempting to repeat this lie enough times so that you grandstand when the prediction of precisely nobody doesn't come true.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

You strongly expect I am a devious liar. Go look at the data in the link then numbnuts.

Couldn't get the Northern Ireland prediction there. Post it again please

I posted it earlier.

On the 14th August we had 6,229 cases, 558 recorded deaths.

As of yesterday we had 21,035 cases and 588 deaths.

If the mortality rates stay consistent with the first wave we will have roughly another 7-800 deaths over the next 5/6 weeks. We'll soon find the answer out to how potent the virus is and that should impact on how we plan to live with it as science is not going to solve it for us on time.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

You asked me for an expert who said masks don't work. There;s an expert who said it.

Here's another one.

https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/

So rather than trying to move the goalposts now, why don't you just accept that is significant difference of opinion from the "experts" on whether face masks actually work or not.

What are you on about, "moving the goalposts"?

First, most governments and public health agencies were reluctant to mandate masks for the public back in March and April because of the huge shortages at the time. Its perfectly valid to ask if the guy you posted from England still believes now what he was advocating for in April, especially given the trends in the disease and the increased availability of PPE.

Second, in that link Tegnell specifically refers to the plummeting cases in Sweden at the time (July), and Sweden was trying for herd immunity anyway. Tegnell has plenty of critics within Sweden, where cases have been far higher than its neighbours.

There's always going to be a few who go against the consensus, but you seem to be implying that the public health professionals and scientists are hopelessly confused and there are equal numbers advocating for and against mask wearing. That is not the case.

The absolute effectiveness can only be established through study and experimentation. In the meantime, the responsible thing to do is to err on the side of caution, use what we do know about airborne transmission and masks, and recommend/require their use, along with social distancing and the rest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 01:20:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:15:10 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 01:09:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:05:44 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 01:02:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:54:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I think you'll find "scaremongering" refers to the doom merchants who know nothing about the virus.

The virus has ran riot up North at the minute, the infection levels are rampant. The next 5/6 weeks are going to tell us all about those who dismiss the virus and those who are running around scaremongering. If the scaremongerers are right we are going to see mass deaths in the north overt he next 5/6 weeks in relation to the virus.

Do you think anybody who doesn't know everything about Covid knows nothing about Covid?

Also these death figures that you feel people have predicted in 5-6 weeks time. Where are you getting that from? Who has made those predictions?

I'm just going on the doom merchants beliefs. If this virus is as deadly and dangerous as they believe then surely there will be catastrophic numbers of fatalities in the north in the next 5/6 weeks when you look at how rampant infection rates have been of late.

I have no idea what way it will go but if you are on the scaremongering side then you would believe we are probably looking at death totals in line with the first wave which would point to 7-800 deaths in the next 5/6 weeks?

Do you think shutting down of the economy, loss of livelihoods, employment and all other negative knock on factors that lockdowns mean are neccessary for a virus that might just have a 0.008 mortality rate for confirmed positive cases - many of whom already might have terminal illnesses or underlying conditions?

If you had to hop into your car today to go on a 50 mile round trip and you were told there was a 0.008 chance you or someone will die as a result, would you take that chance?

I don't know this but the data with regards to this over the next 6 weeks will answer a lot.
I'm not getting in the car unless I am driving, on my own!  Otherwise not taking the chance.  The old chestnut (great seasonal pun!!) - Health v Wealth.  By the way, is the 50 mile trip really necessary?  People spread the disease not cars.

Have you ever done a 50 mile car trip to go to town, to go to a match, to travel to an airport, to go shopping, to visit a friend/relative?

Were any of those trips necessary? Would you ever make one of those trips again if you knew it carried a 0.008% chance of killing someone?
I haven't done any of those since March.  If I thought there was any chance I would kill someone - no.  Although if I could just gently bump into Mr Brolly, then ....

So you're never going to get behind the wheel of a car again or get in a car to go to a football match, or visit a friend of relative or go to town?

You do realise how ridiculous that sounds?
No.  Once Covid has gone, I absolutely will - even visit you if you like.  I'd say you'd be good company with a couple of Guinness in you.  0.5 chance that the next one is on me.   But to apply such gambling in a pandemic?  That is ridiculous.  But again depends on your morality etc.......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 13, 2020, 01:22:36 PM
what scaremongering there by Angelo :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:26:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 13, 2020, 01:12:32 PM
I think Angelo does have a point.

I was in many meetings with experts back in March/April when this was at its worst and the advice to my company was no point wearing masks. Plenty of experts on TV and in the WHO said the same. So things change and the experts changed their opinion which is fine and normal. But it does show that experts can be wrong and are not infallible. So the point is this, we do need to trust the opinion of the experts once they indulge us in answering our questions, providing the data on which they based their opinions. I don't think it is right to simply say - I am an expert dont question me. I think it was perfectly fine the GAA for example asked for the data which showed their games were contributing. The minute you start treating Tony Holohan as a god who owes us no explanation is the minute you are in trouble. Even good science needs to be critiqued.

They can only go on what they know at the time. The transmission routes had not been clearly established. There was more worry about surfaces and hand-to-face touching.

And back then, the immediate concern was health care workers and patients. There simply wasn't enough masks available to mandate widespread use, even if they suspected that it might help. As it was, there was all kinds of gouging and hoarding going on with individuals trying to cash in on the shortages.

I thnk its perfectly fine to question experts. Deferring instead to rumour and pseudoscience because scientists don't yet have all the answers is not fine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:31:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

You asked me for an expert who said masks don't work. There;s an expert who said it.

Here's another one.

https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/

So rather than trying to move the goalposts now, why don't you just accept that is significant difference of opinion from the "experts" on whether face masks actually work or not.

What are you on about, "moving the goalposts"?

First, most governments and public health agencies were reluctant to mandate masks for the public back in March and April because of the huge shortages at the time. Its perfectly valid to ask if the guy you posted from England still believes now what he was advocating for in April, especially given the trends in the disease and the increased availability of PPE.

Second, in that link Tegnell specifically refers to the plummeting cases in Sweden at the time (July), and Sweden was trying for herd immunity anyway. Tegnell has plenty of critics within Sweden, where cases have been far higher than its neighbours.

There's always going to be a few who go against the consensus, but you seem to be implying that the public health professionals and scientists are hopelessly confused and there are equal numbers advocating for and against mask wearing. That is not the case.

The absolute effectiveness can only be established through study and experimentation. In the meantime, the responsible thing to do is to err on the side of caution, use what we do know about airborne transmission and masks, and recommend/require their use, along with social distancing and the rest.

It's quite clear, you asked for an expert who disputed masks - I gave you one. You then moved the goalposts to say he changed his mind.

It's perfectly valid in your mind but that's also a subjective view that supports your argument and is not based on anything more than that.

There are plenty of experts who argue that masks are ineffective. The bottom line is that it's a minor inconvenience for most people to wear them so on the small chance they do slow it down experts recommend them but that doesn't mean they are an effective weapon against the virus as the experts are at odds on this - contrary to your wrongly asserted view as I have shown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 01:36:16 PM
Angelo, if a loved one of yours was sick and had a 0.008 chance of dying if you visited him/her - would you still visit?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:36:37 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 01:20:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:15:10 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 01:09:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:05:44 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 01:02:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:54:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I think you'll find "scaremongering" refers to the doom merchants who know nothing about the virus.

The virus has ran riot up North at the minute, the infection levels are rampant. The next 5/6 weeks are going to tell us all about those who dismiss the virus and those who are running around scaremongering. If the scaremongerers are right we are going to see mass deaths in the north overt he next 5/6 weeks in relation to the virus.

Do you think anybody who doesn't know everything about Covid knows nothing about Covid?

Also these death figures that you feel people have predicted in 5-6 weeks time. Where are you getting that from? Who has made those predictions?

I'm just going on the doom merchants beliefs. If this virus is as deadly and dangerous as they believe then surely there will be catastrophic numbers of fatalities in the north in the next 5/6 weeks when you look at how rampant infection rates have been of late.

I have no idea what way it will go but if you are on the scaremongering side then you would believe we are probably looking at death totals in line with the first wave which would point to 7-800 deaths in the next 5/6 weeks?

Do you think shutting down of the economy, loss of livelihoods, employment and all other negative knock on factors that lockdowns mean are neccessary for a virus that might just have a 0.008 mortality rate for confirmed positive cases - many of whom already might have terminal illnesses or underlying conditions?

If you had to hop into your car today to go on a 50 mile round trip and you were told there was a 0.008 chance you or someone will die as a result, would you take that chance?

I don't know this but the data with regards to this over the next 6 weeks will answer a lot.
I'm not getting in the car unless I am driving, on my own!  Otherwise not taking the chance.  The old chestnut (great seasonal pun!!) - Health v Wealth.  By the way, is the 50 mile trip really necessary?  People spread the disease not cars.

Have you ever done a 50 mile car trip to go to town, to go to a match, to travel to an airport, to go shopping, to visit a friend/relative?

Were any of those trips necessary? Would you ever make one of those trips again if you knew it carried a 0.008% chance of killing someone?
I haven't done any of those since March.  If I thought there was any chance I would kill someone - no.  Although if I could just gently bump into Mr Brolly, then ....

So you're never going to get behind the wheel of a car again or get in a car to go to a football match, or visit a friend of relative or go to town?

You do realise how ridiculous that sounds?
No.  Once Covid has gone, I absolutely will - even visit you if you like.  I'd say you'd be good company with a couple of Guinness in you.  0.5 chance that the next one is on me.   But to apply such gambling in a pandemic?  That is ridiculous.  But again depends on your morality etc.......

But what if it is proven that getting in your car carries a greater risk of death than going out about your daily business in a pandemic?

We're going to find some answers out on Covid in the next few months, the data seems to be pointing more and more if you look at mortality rates on it in Europe during the second wave, that it is not as potent as we probably first thought. I think it will be here to say but we'll probably have to live with it in much the same way we do flu.

A flu still kills people you know.

34,000 est deaths from 35,000,000 est cases in the US last year.

That represents a 0.0009 mortality rate.

So when does something become an acceptable risk?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:38:43 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 01:36:16 PM
Angelo, if a loved one of yours was sick and had a 0.008 chance of dying if you visited him/her - would you still visit?

Yes.

Do you think I should never visit a loved one for a year, two years or 5 years because there is a 1 in 12,500 chance they could die from me visiting them?

Obviously if someone is not well or at risk, those chances increase and that will influence your decisions. It's about common sense, those who are vulnerable and at risk need to be looked after.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on October 13, 2020, 01:39:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:26:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 13, 2020, 01:12:32 PM
I think Angelo does have a point.

I was in many meetings with experts back in March/April when this was at its worst and the advice to my company was no point wearing masks. Plenty of experts on TV and in the WHO said the same. So things change and the experts changed their opinion which is fine and normal. But it does show that experts can be wrong and are not infallible. So the point is this, we do need to trust the opinion of the experts once they indulge us in answering our questions, providing the data on which they based their opinions. I don't think it is right to simply say - I am an expert dont question me. I think it was perfectly fine the GAA for example asked for the data which showed their games were contributing. The minute you start treating Tony Holohan as a god who owes us no explanation is the minute you are in trouble. Even good science needs to be critiqued.

They can only go on what they know at the time. The transmission routes had not been clearly established. There was more worry about surfaces and hand-to-face touching.

And back then, the immediate concern was health care workers and patients. There simply wasn't enough masks available to mandate widespread use, even if they suspected that it might help. As it was, there was all kinds of gouging and hoarding going on with individuals trying to cash in on the shortages.

I thnk its perfectly fine to question experts. Deferring instead to rumour and pseudoscience because scientists don't yet have all the answers is not fine.

I agree with all that J70, although i think the supply chain was a secondary thought at the time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 01:46:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:38:43 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 01:36:16 PM
Angelo, if a loved one of yours was sick and had a 0.008 chance of dying if you visited him/her - would you still visit?

Yes.

Do you think I should never visit a loved one for a year, two years or 5 years because there is a 1 in 12,500 chance they could die from me visiting them?

Obviously if someone is not well or at risk, those chances increase and that will influence your decisions. It's about common sense, those who are vulnerable and at risk need to be looked after.
[/quot
Thanks - that tells me all I need to know about your risk-taking mindset.  You are of course entitled to that - but not when it comes to my health or public health. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:52:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:31:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

You asked me for an expert who said masks don't work. There;s an expert who said it.

Here's another one.

https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/

So rather than trying to move the goalposts now, why don't you just accept that is significant difference of opinion from the "experts" on whether face masks actually work or not.

What are you on about, "moving the goalposts"?

First, most governments and public health agencies were reluctant to mandate masks for the public back in March and April because of the huge shortages at the time. Its perfectly valid to ask if the guy you posted from England still believes now what he was advocating for in April, especially given the trends in the disease and the increased availability of PPE.

Second, in that link Tegnell specifically refers to the plummeting cases in Sweden at the time (July), and Sweden was trying for herd immunity anyway. Tegnell has plenty of critics within Sweden, where cases have been far higher than its neighbours.

There's always going to be a few who go against the consensus, but you seem to be implying that the public health professionals and scientists are hopelessly confused and there are equal numbers advocating for and against mask wearing. That is not the case.

The absolute effectiveness can only be established through study and experimentation. In the meantime, the responsible thing to do is to err on the side of caution, use what we do know about airborne transmission and masks, and recommend/require their use, along with social distancing and the rest.

It's quite clear, you asked for an expert who disputed masks - I gave you one. You then moved the goalposts to say he changed his mind.

It's perfectly valid in your mind but that's also a subjective view that supports your argument and is not based on anything more than that.

There are plenty of experts who argue that masks are ineffective. The bottom line is that it's a minor inconvenience for most people to wear them so on the small chance they do slow it down experts recommend them but that doesn't mean they are an effective weapon against the virus as the experts are at odds on this - contrary to your wrongly asserted view as I have shown.

1. I did NOT say the English dude changed his mind. I questioned if he had (which you've quoted), given that the link you posted was from April 3. We're discussing this in October. A lot has happened since then. We now have six additional months of knowledge of how the disease works and how to combat and manage it. It would be unprofessional for any scientist or public health professional not to take what happened in that time into account.

2. You haven't shown any wrongly asserted view on my part. You seem to be saying that there are a significant number of experts who advocate against masks, but you haven't shown anything to support that. Tegnell is a very noted exception in this pandemic in that he is not only not recommending masks, but he is way looser with all of the other typical requirements. He is not a typical example. Outside of Scandinavia and China (and Ireland?), most of the planet has some kind of mandatory mask rules. The science may be inconclusive at this point, but they're still correctly erring on the side of caution in their advice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on October 13, 2020, 01:52:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

If that is the best you can come up you definitely fall into the side if the argument where "some people are too stupid to know how stupid they are". 

Nobody is saying masks are 100% effective. But combined with social distancing, good hygiene/hand washing practices and not mixing with every Tom, Dick or Harry it will severely limit the spread of this virus. And for the most part everyday business can continue as normal as can possibly be. But then you have thrad individuals like you who think they know better and have to argue every last detail for fear they might be classified as sheep.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:56:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:19:11 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:13:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:06:44 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:04:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:54:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I think you'll find "scaremongering" refers to the doom merchants who know nothing about the virus.

The virus has ran riot up North at the minute, the infection levels are rampant. The next 5/6 weeks are going to tell us all about those who dismiss the virus and those who are running around scaremongering. If the scaremongerers are right we are going to see mass deaths in the north overt he next 5/6 weeks in relation to the virus.

Do you think anybody who doesn't know everything about Covid knows nothing about Covid?

Also these death figures that you feel people have predicted in 5-6 weeks time. Where are you getting that from? Who has made those predictions?

I'm just going on the doom merchants beliefs. If this virus is as deadly and dangerous as they believe then surely there will be catastrophic numbers of fatalities in the north in the next 5/6 weeks when you look at how rampant infection rates have been of late.

I have no idea what way it will go but if you are on the scaremongering side then you would believe we are probably looking at death totals in line with the first wave which would point to 7-800 deaths in the next 5/6 weeks?

Do you think shutting down of the economy, loss of livelihoods, employment and all other negative knock on factors that lockdowns mean are neccessary for a virus that might just have a 0.008 mortality rate for confirmed positive cases - many of whom already might have terminal illnesses or underlying conditions?

If you had to hop into your car today to go on a 50 mile round trip and you were told there was a 0.008 chance you or someone will die as a result, would you take that chance?

I don't know this but the data with regards to this over the next 6 weeks will answer a lot.

You keep repeating over and over again these predictions. Post the link to them.

I strongly suspect you are a devious liar. You are attempting to repeat this lie enough times so that you grandstand when the prediction of precisely nobody doesn't come true.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

You strongly expect I am a devious liar. Go look at the data in the link then numbnuts.

Couldn't get the Northern Ireland prediction there. Post it again please

I posted it earlier.

On the 14th August we had 6,229 cases, 558 recorded deaths.

As of yesterday we had 21,035 cases and 588 deaths.

If the mortality rates stay consistent with the first wave we will have roughly another 7-800 deaths over the next 5/6 weeks. We'll soon find the answer out to how potent the virus is and that should impact on how we plan to live with it as science is not going to solve it for us on time.

Can't see the link.

You keep telling us that someone (you haven't said who but given the number of times you have repeated it it must be someone quite eminent or a huge volume of people) is predicting big death tolls in NI in 5-6 weeks time. Post the link to that prediction.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:57:14 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 13, 2020, 01:52:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

If that is the best you can come up you definitely fall into the side if the argument where "some people are too stupid to know how stupid they are". 

Nobody is saying masks are 100% effective. But combined with social distancing, good hygiene/hand washing practices and not mixing with every Tom, Dick or Harry it will severely limit the spread of this virus. And for the most part everyday business can continue as normal as can possibly be. But then you have thrad individuals like you who think they know better and have to argue every last detail for fear they might be classified as sheep.

I was asked a question on what experts dispute that masks are effective in stopping the virus spread. I provided one example of an expert who did. I can provide more.

I have no problem wearing a mask, I do not know how effective they are or aren't.

I am just pointing out that the "experts" have very conflicting views on their effectiveness. You can argue that but it would only make you look like an idiot as there are plenty of experts who dispute it so take it up with them if you want.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 02:02:39 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:56:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:19:11 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:13:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:06:44 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:04:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:54:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I think you'll find "scaremongering" refers to the doom merchants who know nothing about the virus.

The virus has ran riot up North at the minute, the infection levels are rampant. The next 5/6 weeks are going to tell us all about those who dismiss the virus and those who are running around scaremongering. If the scaremongerers are right we are going to see mass deaths in the north overt he next 5/6 weeks in relation to the virus.

Do you think anybody who doesn't know everything about Covid knows nothing about Covid?

Also these death figures that you feel people have predicted in 5-6 weeks time. Where are you getting that from? Who has made those predictions?

I'm just going on the doom merchants beliefs. If this virus is as deadly and dangerous as they believe then surely there will be catastrophic numbers of fatalities in the north in the next 5/6 weeks when you look at how rampant infection rates have been of late.

I have no idea what way it will go but if you are on the scaremongering side then you would believe we are probably looking at death totals in line with the first wave which would point to 7-800 deaths in the next 5/6 weeks?

Do you think shutting down of the economy, loss of livelihoods, employment and all other negative knock on factors that lockdowns mean are neccessary for a virus that might just have a 0.008 mortality rate for confirmed positive cases - many of whom already might have terminal illnesses or underlying conditions?

If you had to hop into your car today to go on a 50 mile round trip and you were told there was a 0.008 chance you or someone will die as a result, would you take that chance?

I don't know this but the data with regards to this over the next 6 weeks will answer a lot.

You keep repeating over and over again these predictions. Post the link to them.

I strongly suspect you are a devious liar. You are attempting to repeat this lie enough times so that you grandstand when the prediction of precisely nobody doesn't come true.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

You strongly expect I am a devious liar. Go look at the data in the link then numbnuts.

Couldn't get the Northern Ireland prediction there. Post it again please

I posted it earlier.

On the 14th August we had 6,229 cases, 558 recorded deaths.

As of yesterday we had 21,035 cases and 588 deaths.

If the mortality rates stay consistent with the first wave we will have roughly another 7-800 deaths over the next 5/6 weeks. We'll soon find the answer out to how potent the virus is and that should impact on how we plan to live with it as science is not going to solve it for us on time.

Can't see the link.

You keep telling us that someone (you haven't said who but given the number of times you have repeated it it must be someone quite eminent or a huge volume of people) is predicting big death tolls in NI in 5-6 weeks time. Post the link to that prediction.

3 extra deaths yesterday which takes it to 591.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2020/0814/1159218-covid-northern-ireland/

Northern Ireland records 74 new Covid-19 cases, one further death
Updated / Friday, 14 Aug 2020 17:34
Health Minister Robin Swann urged the public to 'stick with' the measures to tackle the virus
Health Minister Robin Swann urged the public to 'stick with' the measures to tackle the virus
The Department of Health in Northern Ireland has said 74 new cases of Covid-19 have been identified.

There has also been one further death confirmed in the past 24 hours.

The person who died is understood to have been under 40 years of the age.

The total number of deaths in Northern Ireland from Covid-19 now stands at 558 while the total number of confirmed cases is 6,299, with 242 people testing positive in the last seven days.

Health Minister Robin Swann said the number of close contacts linked to positive cases "has more than doubled since July".

In a statement today, he said: "This rise may be attributed to the easing of lockdown measures, but may also be explained by relaxing of attitudes to social distancing."

He urged people to "stick with it" and to do all they can to prevent the virus taking "hold in our society".

Meanwhile, over 250,000 people have downloaded the Covid-19 tracing app in Northern Ireland, two weeks after its launch.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/northern-ireland-covid-19-cases-spiral-as-877-cases-3-deaths-reported-1.4378677

Northern Ireland: Covid-19 cases spiral, as 877 cases, 3 deaths reported
Executive at odds over proposal for series of six-week lockdowns
about 23 hours ago
Gerry Moriarty
First Minister Arlene Foster sat Stormont. File photograph: Rebecca Black/PA Wire
First Minister Arlene Foster sat Stormont. File photograph: Rebecca Black/PA Wire


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Northern Ireland recorded three more deaths and 877 new cases of Covid-19 on Monday as Stormont Executive Ministers consider whether six-week lockdowns should be introduced in the North to curb the dramatic rise of the virus.

The North's Department of Health in its daily bulletin on Monday reported three deaths bringing the total to 591.

After almost 2,000 new cases over the weekend, the department recorded 877 new coronavirus cases on Monday, taking the total to 21,035.

In the past seven days 6,161 cases were reported. The Derry and Strabane council area, where additional restrictions are in place, is experiencing 971 virus cases per 100,000 of the population with Belfast reporting 455 cases per 100,000.

Some parts of Northern Ireland are seeing relatively low levels of incidence. In Mid and East Antrim the figure is 87 cases per 100,000 and in Ards and North Down 131 cases.

The number of people receiving hospital treatment for Covid-19 continues to rise. There are now 140 patients being treated, with 22 of them in intensive care units and 15 on ventilators.

Northern Ireland Health Minister Robin Swann. File photograph: Kelvin Boyes/Press Eye/PA Wire
Northern Ireland Health Minister Robin Swann. File photograph: Kelvin Boyes/Press Eye/PA Wire
Six-week lockdown
The Executive is expected to meet on Tuesday with evidence of renewed tensions between Ministers on how to tackle the spiralling rise in Covid-19.

The health Minister Robin Swann confirmed to the Assembly on Monday that the chief medical officer Dr Michael McBride and chief scientific adviser Prof Ian Young presented First Minister Arlene Foster and Deputy First Minister Michelle O'Neill with new written proposals on how to address the problem.

Coronavirus search: How is Covid-19 spreading in your locality?
Life under Level 3: What stays open and where can I travel?
Living with Covid plan: What is in each of the five levels?
"That paper recommends decisive action be urgently taken to save lives, prevent the health service being overwhelmed and protect non-Covid services to the greatest extent possible," said Mr Swann.

The Minister did not detail those proposals but a number of Stormont sources said they included recommendations that Northern Ireland enter an imminent six-week lockdown and that a further six-week lockdown may be required in the new year.

     

There was an expectation that the Executive would consider these proposals on Monday but sources said that instead the Executive will meet on Tuesday to try to chart a way forward.

Already, there appear to be renewed differences opening up on the issue between the two dominant parties in the Executive, the DUP and Sinn Féin.

Sinn Féin has not stated whether it would opt for a six-week lockdown. On Sunday however Sinn Féin MP Chris Hazzard suggested it was time to move away from localised measures, as pertains in the Derry and Strabane area.

"I think there was a logic and a sense behind local lockdowns at a time but I think we're now moving fast into the area where we need to be looking at more general lockdowns once again, at more general and rigorous and robust methods at being able to suppress this virus," he told the BBC.

Additional finances
The DUP leader and First Minister Ms Foster on Monday indicated that she was not in favour of a move as stringent as a six-week lockdown.

She said that "heavier restrictions however are not inevitable" if people observed the basic rules such as social distancing, wearing masks and having good respiratory hygiene.

She did not accept that the argument was simply "health versus wealth" because if businesses and jobs were lost and people ended up in poverty then that also would have health implications.

"So, we need a balanced approach," she added. "Let no one say that these next few days will contain easy decisions but what they will contain for me is weighing up some very big choices as we seek to do what is right by all of our people."

On Monday Ms Foster, Ms O'Neill and Mr Swann joined in a Cobra meeting with British prime minister Boris Johnson and representatives from the Scottish and Welsh devolved administrations on Covid-19.


After the meeting Ms O'Neill said she raised the need for additional finances from the British government. "Our Covid situation requires decisive action to stop the spread and therefore we need the finances to support workers, families and business in these challenging times," she said.

The chief executive of Belfast Chamber of Trade Simon Hamilton warned a second lockdown would be severely damaging for many businesses. "Whilst we all appreciate that the situation with the virus has taken a turn for the worse and that action is required, the Executive must equally consider the wider and longer-term impacts on society, our mental health, jobs and the economy of the choices before them," he said.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 02:06:11 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 13, 2020, 01:36:16 PM
Angelo, if a loved one of yours was sick and had a 0.008 chance of dying if you visited him/her - would you still visit?

I get your point here, but in life, there is nothing ever at 0% risk. As Angelo points out, you could get in your car tonight and that could be it. That is not me downplaying the situation or anything to that effect but your comparison is an extremely sensationalist one. It's a loaded question.

Kinda like that news story today about your man in the States who got infected twice, what was the odds of that? Yet you don't hear much about the hundreds of thousands, if not millions at this stage who have recovered. Why?


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 02:19:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:52:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:31:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

You asked me for an expert who said masks don't work. There;s an expert who said it.

Here's another one.

https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/

So rather than trying to move the goalposts now, why don't you just accept that is significant difference of opinion from the "experts" on whether face masks actually work or not.

What are you on about, "moving the goalposts"?

First, most governments and public health agencies were reluctant to mandate masks for the public back in March and April because of the huge shortages at the time. Its perfectly valid to ask if the guy you posted from England still believes now what he was advocating for in April, especially given the trends in the disease and the increased availability of PPE.

Second, in that link Tegnell specifically refers to the plummeting cases in Sweden at the time (July), and Sweden was trying for herd immunity anyway. Tegnell has plenty of critics within Sweden, where cases have been far higher than its neighbours.

There's always going to be a few who go against the consensus, but you seem to be implying that the public health professionals and scientists are hopelessly confused and there are equal numbers advocating for and against mask wearing. That is not the case.

The absolute effectiveness can only be established through study and experimentation. In the meantime, the responsible thing to do is to err on the side of caution, use what we do know about airborne transmission and masks, and recommend/require their use, along with social distancing and the rest.

It's quite clear, you asked for an expert who disputed masks - I gave you one. You then moved the goalposts to say he changed his mind.

It's perfectly valid in your mind but that's also a subjective view that supports your argument and is not based on anything more than that.

There are plenty of experts who argue that masks are ineffective. The bottom line is that it's a minor inconvenience for most people to wear them so on the small chance they do slow it down experts recommend them but that doesn't mean they are an effective weapon against the virus as the experts are at odds on this - contrary to your wrongly asserted view as I have shown.

1. I did NOT say the English dude changed his mind. I questioned if he had (which you've quoted), given that the link you posted was from April 3. We're discussing this in October. A lot has happened since then. We now have six additional months of knowledge of how the disease works and how to combat and manage it. It would be unprofessional for any scientist or public health professional not to take what happened in that time into account.

2. You haven't shown any wrongly asserted view on my part. You seem to be saying that there are a significant number of experts who advocate against masks, but you haven't shown anything to support that. Tegnell is a very noted exception in this pandemic in that he is not only not recommending masks, but he is way looser with all of the other typical requirements. He is not a typical example. Outside of Scandinavia and China (and Ireland?), most of the planet has some kind of mandatory mask rules. The science may be inconclusive at this point, but they're still correctly erring on the side of caution in their advice.

You question me on what experts said masks don't work.

I provided you with one and then you tried to move the goalposts. I also provided you with another one.

It's clear as day that experts are divided on this, which you disputed so maybe in light of factual evidence of experts publicly voicing this opinion, you should accept that there are two differing fields of thoughts between experts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on October 13, 2020, 02:34:55 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:05:44 PM

Have you ever done a 50 mile car trip to go to town, to go to a match, to travel to an airport, to go shopping, to visit a friend/relative?

Were any of those trips necessary? Would you ever make one of those trips again if you knew it carried a 0.008% chance of killing someone?

I think you need to check your maths here Angelo, you're confusing yourself switching between rates and percentages
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2020, 02:44:14 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 02:19:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:52:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:31:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

You asked me for an expert who said masks don't work. There;s an expert who said it.

Here's another one.

https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/

So rather than trying to move the goalposts now, why don't you just accept that is significant difference of opinion from the "experts" on whether face masks actually work or not.

What are you on about, "moving the goalposts"?

First, most governments and public health agencies were reluctant to mandate masks for the public back in March and April because of the huge shortages at the time. Its perfectly valid to ask if the guy you posted from England still believes now what he was advocating for in April, especially given the trends in the disease and the increased availability of PPE.

Second, in that link Tegnell specifically refers to the plummeting cases in Sweden at the time (July), and Sweden was trying for herd immunity anyway. Tegnell has plenty of critics within Sweden, where cases have been far higher than its neighbours.

There's always going to be a few who go against the consensus, but you seem to be implying that the public health professionals and scientists are hopelessly confused and there are equal numbers advocating for and against mask wearing. That is not the case.

The absolute effectiveness can only be established through study and experimentation. In the meantime, the responsible thing to do is to err on the side of caution, use what we do know about airborne transmission and masks, and recommend/require their use, along with social distancing and the rest.

It's quite clear, you asked for an expert who disputed masks - I gave you one. You then moved the goalposts to say he changed his mind.

It's perfectly valid in your mind but that's also a subjective view that supports your argument and is not based on anything more than that.

There are plenty of experts who argue that masks are ineffective. The bottom line is that it's a minor inconvenience for most people to wear them so on the small chance they do slow it down experts recommend them but that doesn't mean they are an effective weapon against the virus as the experts are at odds on this - contrary to your wrongly asserted view as I have shown.

1. I did NOT say the English dude changed his mind. I questioned if he had (which you've quoted), given that the link you posted was from April 3. We're discussing this in October. A lot has happened since then. We now have six additional months of knowledge of how the disease works and how to combat and manage it. It would be unprofessional for any scientist or public health professional not to take what happened in that time into account.

2. You haven't shown any wrongly asserted view on my part. You seem to be saying that there are a significant number of experts who advocate against masks, but you haven't shown anything to support that. Tegnell is a very noted exception in this pandemic in that he is not only not recommending masks, but he is way looser with all of the other typical requirements. He is not a typical example. Outside of Scandinavia and China (and Ireland?), most of the planet has some kind of mandatory mask rules. The science may be inconclusive at this point, but they're still correctly erring on the side of caution in their advice.

You question me on what experts said masks don't work.

I provided you with one and then you tried to move the goalposts. I also provided you with another one.

It's clear as day that experts are divided on this, which you disputed so maybe in light of factual evidence of experts publicly voicing this opinion, you should accept that there are two differing fields of thoughts between experts.

A six month old pronouncement is basically irrelevant given how things have changed, especially on mask-wearing, hence my question about what he thinks now. That is perfectly valid and not moving the goalposts in any way.

On the differing fields of thought, I guess we have differing concepts of what that means. There are always going to be exceptions or hold-outs or contrarians, no matter what the subject. Scientists are no exception to this. Whether their position is valid or supported is what is key.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 02:53:04 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 13, 2020, 02:34:55 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:05:44 PM

Have you ever done a 50 mile car trip to go to town, to go to a match, to travel to an airport, to go shopping, to visit a friend/relative?

Were any of those trips necessary? Would you ever make one of those trips again if you knew it carried a 0.008% chance of killing someone?

I think you need to check your maths here Angelo, you're confusing yourself switching between rates and percentages

Apologies, 0.8%
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 02:56:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 02:44:14 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 02:19:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:52:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:31:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

You asked me for an expert who said masks don't work. There;s an expert who said it.

Here's another one.

https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/

So rather than trying to move the goalposts now, why don't you just accept that is significant difference of opinion from the "experts" on whether face masks actually work or not.

What are you on about, "moving the goalposts"?

First, most governments and public health agencies were reluctant to mandate masks for the public back in March and April because of the huge shortages at the time. Its perfectly valid to ask if the guy you posted from England still believes now what he was advocating for in April, especially given the trends in the disease and the increased availability of PPE.

Second, in that link Tegnell specifically refers to the plummeting cases in Sweden at the time (July), and Sweden was trying for herd immunity anyway. Tegnell has plenty of critics within Sweden, where cases have been far higher than its neighbours.

There's always going to be a few who go against the consensus, but you seem to be implying that the public health professionals and scientists are hopelessly confused and there are equal numbers advocating for and against mask wearing. That is not the case.

The absolute effectiveness can only be established through study and experimentation. In the meantime, the responsible thing to do is to err on the side of caution, use what we do know about airborne transmission and masks, and recommend/require their use, along with social distancing and the rest.

It's quite clear, you asked for an expert who disputed masks - I gave you one. You then moved the goalposts to say he changed his mind.

It's perfectly valid in your mind but that's also a subjective view that supports your argument and is not based on anything more than that.

There are plenty of experts who argue that masks are ineffective. The bottom line is that it's a minor inconvenience for most people to wear them so on the small chance they do slow it down experts recommend them but that doesn't mean they are an effective weapon against the virus as the experts are at odds on this - contrary to your wrongly asserted view as I have shown.

1. I did NOT say the English dude changed his mind. I questioned if he had (which you've quoted), given that the link you posted was from April 3. We're discussing this in October. A lot has happened since then. We now have six additional months of knowledge of how the disease works and how to combat and manage it. It would be unprofessional for any scientist or public health professional not to take what happened in that time into account.

2. You haven't shown any wrongly asserted view on my part. You seem to be saying that there are a significant number of experts who advocate against masks, but you haven't shown anything to support that. Tegnell is a very noted exception in this pandemic in that he is not only not recommending masks, but he is way looser with all of the other typical requirements. He is not a typical example. Outside of Scandinavia and China (and Ireland?), most of the planet has some kind of mandatory mask rules. The science may be inconclusive at this point, but they're still correctly erring on the side of caution in their advice.

You question me on what experts said masks don't work.

I provided you with one and then you tried to move the goalposts. I also provided you with another one.

It's clear as day that experts are divided on this, which you disputed so maybe in light of factual evidence of experts publicly voicing this opinion, you should accept that there are two differing fields of thoughts between experts.

A six month old pronouncement is basically irrelevant given how things have changed, especially on mask-wearing, hence my question about what he thinks now. That is perfectly valid and not moving the goalposts in any way.

On the differing fields of thought, I guess we have differing concepts of what that means. There are always going to be exceptions or hold-outs or contrarians, no matter what the subject. Scientists are no exception to this. Whether their position is valid or supported is what is key.

So what does it tell us when the experts are getting things badly wrong.


I don't know how effective masks are but it's not such an issue for people to wear them so governments recommend them but there are differing schools of opinion between experts on their effectiveness.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 03:14:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 02:02:39 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:56:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:19:11 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:13:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:06:44 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:04:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:54:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I think you'll find "scaremongering" refers to the doom merchants who know nothing about the virus.

The virus has ran riot up North at the minute, the infection levels are rampant. The next 5/6 weeks are going to tell us all about those who dismiss the virus and those who are running around scaremongering. If the scaremongerers are right we are going to see mass deaths in the north overt he next 5/6 weeks in relation to the virus.

Do you think anybody who doesn't know everything about Covid knows nothing about Covid?

Also these death figures that you feel people have predicted in 5-6 weeks time. Where are you getting that from? Who has made those predictions?

I'm just going on the doom merchants beliefs. If this virus is as deadly and dangerous as they believe then surely there will be catastrophic numbers of fatalities in the north in the next 5/6 weeks when you look at how rampant infection rates have been of late.

I have no idea what way it will go but if you are on the scaremongering side then you would believe we are probably looking at death totals in line with the first wave which would point to 7-800 deaths in the next 5/6 weeks?

Do you think shutting down of the economy, loss of livelihoods, employment and all other negative knock on factors that lockdowns mean are neccessary for a virus that might just have a 0.008 mortality rate for confirmed positive cases - many of whom already might have terminal illnesses or underlying conditions?

If you had to hop into your car today to go on a 50 mile round trip and you were told there was a 0.008 chance you or someone will die as a result, would you take that chance?

I don't know this but the data with regards to this over the next 6 weeks will answer a lot.

You keep repeating over and over again these predictions. Post the link to them.

I strongly suspect you are a devious liar. You are attempting to repeat this lie enough times so that you grandstand when the prediction of precisely nobody doesn't come true.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

You strongly expect I am a devious liar. Go look at the data in the link then numbnuts.

Couldn't get the Northern Ireland prediction there. Post it again please

I posted it earlier.

On the 14th August we had 6,229 cases, 558 recorded deaths.

As of yesterday we had 21,035 cases and 588 deaths.

If the mortality rates stay consistent with the first wave we will have roughly another 7-800 deaths over the next 5/6 weeks. We'll soon find the answer out to how potent the virus is and that should impact on how we plan to live with it as science is not going to solve it for us on time.

Can't see the link.

You keep telling us that someone (you haven't said who but given the number of times you have repeated it it must be someone quite eminent or a huge volume of people) is predicting big death tolls in NI in 5-6 weeks time. Post the link to that prediction.

3 extra deaths yesterday which takes it to 591.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2020/0814/1159218-covid-northern-ireland/

Northern Ireland records 74 new Covid-19 cases, one further death
Updated / Friday, 14 Aug 2020 17:34
Health Minister Robin Swann urged the public to 'stick with' the measures to tackle the virus
Health Minister Robin Swann urged the public to 'stick with' the measures to tackle the virus
The Department of Health in Northern Ireland has said 74 new cases of Covid-19 have been identified.

There has also been one further death confirmed in the past 24 hours.

The person who died is understood to have been under 40 years of the age.

The total number of deaths in Northern Ireland from Covid-19 now stands at 558 while the total number of confirmed cases is 6,299, with 242 people testing positive in the last seven days.

Health Minister Robin Swann said the number of close contacts linked to positive cases "has more than doubled since July".

In a statement today, he said: "This rise may be attributed to the easing of lockdown measures, but may also be explained by relaxing of attitudes to social distancing."

He urged people to "stick with it" and to do all they can to prevent the virus taking "hold in our society".

Meanwhile, over 250,000 people have downloaded the Covid-19 tracing app in Northern Ireland, two weeks after its launch.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/northern-ireland-covid-19-cases-spiral-as-877-cases-3-deaths-reported-1.4378677

Northern Ireland: Covid-19 cases spiral, as 877 cases, 3 deaths reported
Executive at odds over proposal for series of six-week lockdowns
about 23 hours ago
Gerry Moriarty
First Minister Arlene Foster sat Stormont. File photograph: Rebecca Black/PA Wire
First Minister Arlene Foster sat Stormont. File photograph: Rebecca Black/PA Wire


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Northern Ireland recorded three more deaths and 877 new cases of Covid-19 on Monday as Stormont Executive Ministers consider whether six-week lockdowns should be introduced in the North to curb the dramatic rise of the virus.

The North's Department of Health in its daily bulletin on Monday reported three deaths bringing the total to 591.

After almost 2,000 new cases over the weekend, the department recorded 877 new coronavirus cases on Monday, taking the total to 21,035.

In the past seven days 6,161 cases were reported. The Derry and Strabane council area, where additional restrictions are in place, is experiencing 971 virus cases per 100,000 of the population with Belfast reporting 455 cases per 100,000.

Some parts of Northern Ireland are seeing relatively low levels of incidence. In Mid and East Antrim the figure is 87 cases per 100,000 and in Ards and North Down 131 cases.

The number of people receiving hospital treatment for Covid-19 continues to rise. There are now 140 patients being treated, with 22 of them in intensive care units and 15 on ventilators.

Northern Ireland Health Minister Robin Swann. File photograph: Kelvin Boyes/Press Eye/PA Wire
Northern Ireland Health Minister Robin Swann. File photograph: Kelvin Boyes/Press Eye/PA Wire
Six-week lockdown
The Executive is expected to meet on Tuesday with evidence of renewed tensions between Ministers on how to tackle the spiralling rise in Covid-19.

The health Minister Robin Swann confirmed to the Assembly on Monday that the chief medical officer Dr Michael McBride and chief scientific adviser Prof Ian Young presented First Minister Arlene Foster and Deputy First Minister Michelle O'Neill with new written proposals on how to address the problem.

Coronavirus search: How is Covid-19 spreading in your locality?
Life under Level 3: What stays open and where can I travel?
Living with Covid plan: What is in each of the five levels?
"That paper recommends decisive action be urgently taken to save lives, prevent the health service being overwhelmed and protect non-Covid services to the greatest extent possible," said Mr Swann.

The Minister did not detail those proposals but a number of Stormont sources said they included recommendations that Northern Ireland enter an imminent six-week lockdown and that a further six-week lockdown may be required in the new year.

     

There was an expectation that the Executive would consider these proposals on Monday but sources said that instead the Executive will meet on Tuesday to try to chart a way forward.

Already, there appear to be renewed differences opening up on the issue between the two dominant parties in the Executive, the DUP and Sinn Féin.

Sinn Féin has not stated whether it would opt for a six-week lockdown. On Sunday however Sinn Féin MP Chris Hazzard suggested it was time to move away from localised measures, as pertains in the Derry and Strabane area.

"I think there was a logic and a sense behind local lockdowns at a time but I think we're now moving fast into the area where we need to be looking at more general lockdowns once again, at more general and rigorous and robust methods at being able to suppress this virus," he told the BBC.

Additional finances
The DUP leader and First Minister Ms Foster on Monday indicated that she was not in favour of a move as stringent as a six-week lockdown.

She said that "heavier restrictions however are not inevitable" if people observed the basic rules such as social distancing, wearing masks and having good respiratory hygiene.

She did not accept that the argument was simply "health versus wealth" because if businesses and jobs were lost and people ended up in poverty then that also would have health implications.

"So, we need a balanced approach," she added. "Let no one say that these next few days will contain easy decisions but what they will contain for me is weighing up some very big choices as we seek to do what is right by all of our people."

On Monday Ms Foster, Ms O'Neill and Mr Swann joined in a Cobra meeting with British prime minister Boris Johnson and representatives from the Scottish and Welsh devolved administrations on Covid-19.


After the meeting Ms O'Neill said she raised the need for additional finances from the British government. "Our Covid situation requires decisive action to stop the spread and therefore we need the finances to support workers, families and business in these challenging times," she said.

The chief executive of Belfast Chamber of Trade Simon Hamilton warned a second lockdown would be severely damaging for many businesses. "Whilst we all appreciate that the situation with the virus has taken a turn for the worse and that action is required, the Executive must equally consider the wider and longer-term impacts on society, our mental health, jobs and the economy of the choices before them," he said.

You were supposed to post a link to someone saying there would be very high NI death rates in in 5 or 6 weeks. You still haven't
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 03:14:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 02:02:39 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:56:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:19:11 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:13:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:06:44 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:04:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:54:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I think you'll find "scaremongering" refers to the doom merchants who know nothing about the virus.

The virus has ran riot up North at the minute, the infection levels are rampant. The next 5/6 weeks are going to tell us all about those who dismiss the virus and those who are running around scaremongering. If the scaremongerers are right we are going to see mass deaths in the north overt he next 5/6 weeks in relation to the virus.

Do you think anybody who doesn't know everything about Covid knows nothing about Covid?

Also these death figures that you feel people have predicted in 5-6 weeks time. Where are you getting that from? Who has made those predictions?

I'm just going on the doom merchants beliefs. If this virus is as deadly and dangerous as they believe then surely there will be catastrophic numbers of fatalities in the north in the next 5/6 weeks when you look at how rampant infection rates have been of late.

I have no idea what way it will go but if you are on the scaremongering side then you would believe we are probably looking at death totals in line with the first wave which would point to 7-800 deaths in the next 5/6 weeks?

Do you think shutting down of the economy, loss of livelihoods, employment and all other negative knock on factors that lockdowns mean are neccessary for a virus that might just have a 0.008 mortality rate for confirmed positive cases - many of whom already might have terminal illnesses or underlying conditions?

If you had to hop into your car today to go on a 50 mile round trip and you were told there was a 0.008 chance you or someone will die as a result, would you take that chance?

I don't know this but the data with regards to this over the next 6 weeks will answer a lot.

You keep repeating over and over again these predictions. Post the link to them.

I strongly suspect you are a devious liar. You are attempting to repeat this lie enough times so that you grandstand when the prediction of precisely nobody doesn't come true.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

You strongly expect I am a devious liar. Go look at the data in the link then numbnuts.

Couldn't get the Northern Ireland prediction there. Post it again please

I posted it earlier.

On the 14th August we had 6,229 cases, 558 recorded deaths.

As of yesterday we had 21,035 cases and 588 deaths.

If the mortality rates stay consistent with the first wave we will have roughly another 7-800 deaths over the next 5/6 weeks. We'll soon find the answer out to how potent the virus is and that should impact on how we plan to live with it as science is not going to solve it for us on time.

Can't see the link.

You keep telling us that someone (you haven't said who but given the number of times you have repeated it it must be someone quite eminent or a huge volume of people) is predicting big death tolls in NI in 5-6 weeks time. Post the link to that prediction.

3 extra deaths yesterday which takes it to 591.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2020/0814/1159218-covid-northern-ireland/

Northern Ireland records 74 new Covid-19 cases, one further death
Updated / Friday, 14 Aug 2020 17:34
Health Minister Robin Swann urged the public to 'stick with' the measures to tackle the virus
Health Minister Robin Swann urged the public to 'stick with' the measures to tackle the virus
The Department of Health in Northern Ireland has said 74 new cases of Covid-19 have been identified.

There has also been one further death confirmed in the past 24 hours.

The person who died is understood to have been under 40 years of the age.

The total number of deaths in Northern Ireland from Covid-19 now stands at 558 while the total number of confirmed cases is 6,299, with 242 people testing positive in the last seven days.

Health Minister Robin Swann said the number of close contacts linked to positive cases "has more than doubled since July".

In a statement today, he said: "This rise may be attributed to the easing of lockdown measures, but may also be explained by relaxing of attitudes to social distancing."

He urged people to "stick with it" and to do all they can to prevent the virus taking "hold in our society".

Meanwhile, over 250,000 people have downloaded the Covid-19 tracing app in Northern Ireland, two weeks after its launch.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/northern-ireland-covid-19-cases-spiral-as-877-cases-3-deaths-reported-1.4378677

Northern Ireland: Covid-19 cases spiral, as 877 cases, 3 deaths reported
Executive at odds over proposal for series of six-week lockdowns
about 23 hours ago
Gerry Moriarty
First Minister Arlene Foster sat Stormont. File photograph: Rebecca Black/PA Wire
First Minister Arlene Foster sat Stormont. File photograph: Rebecca Black/PA Wire


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Northern Ireland recorded three more deaths and 877 new cases of Covid-19 on Monday as Stormont Executive Ministers consider whether six-week lockdowns should be introduced in the North to curb the dramatic rise of the virus.

The North's Department of Health in its daily bulletin on Monday reported three deaths bringing the total to 591.

After almost 2,000 new cases over the weekend, the department recorded 877 new coronavirus cases on Monday, taking the total to 21,035.

In the past seven days 6,161 cases were reported. The Derry and Strabane council area, where additional restrictions are in place, is experiencing 971 virus cases per 100,000 of the population with Belfast reporting 455 cases per 100,000.

Some parts of Northern Ireland are seeing relatively low levels of incidence. In Mid and East Antrim the figure is 87 cases per 100,000 and in Ards and North Down 131 cases.

The number of people receiving hospital treatment for Covid-19 continues to rise. There are now 140 patients being treated, with 22 of them in intensive care units and 15 on ventilators.

Northern Ireland Health Minister Robin Swann. File photograph: Kelvin Boyes/Press Eye/PA Wire
Northern Ireland Health Minister Robin Swann. File photograph: Kelvin Boyes/Press Eye/PA Wire
Six-week lockdown
The Executive is expected to meet on Tuesday with evidence of renewed tensions between Ministers on how to tackle the spiralling rise in Covid-19.

The health Minister Robin Swann confirmed to the Assembly on Monday that the chief medical officer Dr Michael McBride and chief scientific adviser Prof Ian Young presented First Minister Arlene Foster and Deputy First Minister Michelle O'Neill with new written proposals on how to address the problem.

Coronavirus search: How is Covid-19 spreading in your locality?
Life under Level 3: What stays open and where can I travel?
Living with Covid plan: What is in each of the five levels?
"That paper recommends decisive action be urgently taken to save lives, prevent the health service being overwhelmed and protect non-Covid services to the greatest extent possible," said Mr Swann.

The Minister did not detail those proposals but a number of Stormont sources said they included recommendations that Northern Ireland enter an imminent six-week lockdown and that a further six-week lockdown may be required in the new year.

     

There was an expectation that the Executive would consider these proposals on Monday but sources said that instead the Executive will meet on Tuesday to try to chart a way forward.

Already, there appear to be renewed differences opening up on the issue between the two dominant parties in the Executive, the DUP and Sinn Féin.

Sinn Féin has not stated whether it would opt for a six-week lockdown. On Sunday however Sinn Féin MP Chris Hazzard suggested it was time to move away from localised measures, as pertains in the Derry and Strabane area.

"I think there was a logic and a sense behind local lockdowns at a time but I think we're now moving fast into the area where we need to be looking at more general lockdowns once again, at more general and rigorous and robust methods at being able to suppress this virus," he told the BBC.

Additional finances
The DUP leader and First Minister Ms Foster on Monday indicated that she was not in favour of a move as stringent as a six-week lockdown.

She said that "heavier restrictions however are not inevitable" if people observed the basic rules such as social distancing, wearing masks and having good respiratory hygiene.

She did not accept that the argument was simply "health versus wealth" because if businesses and jobs were lost and people ended up in poverty then that also would have health implications.

"So, we need a balanced approach," she added. "Let no one say that these next few days will contain easy decisions but what they will contain for me is weighing up some very big choices as we seek to do what is right by all of our people."

On Monday Ms Foster, Ms O'Neill and Mr Swann joined in a Cobra meeting with British prime minister Boris Johnson and representatives from the Scottish and Welsh devolved administrations on Covid-19.


After the meeting Ms O'Neill said she raised the need for additional finances from the British government. "Our Covid situation requires decisive action to stop the spread and therefore we need the finances to support workers, families and business in these challenging times," she said.

The chief executive of Belfast Chamber of Trade Simon Hamilton warned a second lockdown would be severely damaging for many businesses. "Whilst we all appreciate that the situation with the virus has taken a turn for the worse and that action is required, the Executive must equally consider the wider and longer-term impacts on society, our mental health, jobs and the economy of the choices before them," he said.

You were supposed to post a link to someone saying there would be very high NI death rates in in 5 or 6 weeks. You still haven't

No I wasn't.

I stated that if mortality rates were in line with the first wave we would have 7-800 deaths in the next 5/6 weeks.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2020, 03:17:24 PM
Anyone giving comments based on expertise will generally acknowledge the limitations. In this case, mainly down to the novelty of the virus. If they don't acknowledge the limitations, they're unprofessional. Similarly, it is unprofessional and unscientific to not change advice or comments where appropriate as more knowledge is accumulated. That is what separates science from pseudoscience like, say, evolutionary biology from creationism. That is why it is valid to ask what an expert's current opinion on COVID is, not just rely on what it was six months ago when we didn't know as much.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 13, 2020, 03:21:47 PM
The ignore function is a great yoke altogether. ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 03:29:00 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 03:14:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 02:02:39 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:56:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:19:11 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:13:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:06:44 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 01:04:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:54:48 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 12:46:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 11:38:15 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.
Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I think you'll find "scaremongering" refers to the doom merchants who know nothing about the virus.

The virus has ran riot up North at the minute, the infection levels are rampant. The next 5/6 weeks are going to tell us all about those who dismiss the virus and those who are running around scaremongering. If the scaremongerers are right we are going to see mass deaths in the north overt he next 5/6 weeks in relation to the virus.

Do you think anybody who doesn't know everything about Covid knows nothing about Covid?

Also these death figures that you feel people have predicted in 5-6 weeks time. Where are you getting that from? Who has made those predictions?

I'm just going on the doom merchants beliefs. If this virus is as deadly and dangerous as they believe then surely there will be catastrophic numbers of fatalities in the north in the next 5/6 weeks when you look at how rampant infection rates have been of late.

I have no idea what way it will go but if you are on the scaremongering side then you would believe we are probably looking at death totals in line with the first wave which would point to 7-800 deaths in the next 5/6 weeks?

Do you think shutting down of the economy, loss of livelihoods, employment and all other negative knock on factors that lockdowns mean are neccessary for a virus that might just have a 0.008 mortality rate for confirmed positive cases - many of whom already might have terminal illnesses or underlying conditions?

If you had to hop into your car today to go on a 50 mile round trip and you were told there was a 0.008 chance you or someone will die as a result, would you take that chance?

I don't know this but the data with regards to this over the next 6 weeks will answer a lot.

You keep repeating over and over again these predictions. Post the link to them.

I strongly suspect you are a devious liar. You are attempting to repeat this lie enough times so that you grandstand when the prediction of precisely nobody doesn't come true.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

You strongly expect I am a devious liar. Go look at the data in the link then numbnuts.

Couldn't get the Northern Ireland prediction there. Post it again please

I posted it earlier.

On the 14th August we had 6,229 cases, 558 recorded deaths.

As of yesterday we had 21,035 cases and 588 deaths.

If the mortality rates stay consistent with the first wave we will have roughly another 7-800 deaths over the next 5/6 weeks. We'll soon find the answer out to how potent the virus is and that should impact on how we plan to live with it as science is not going to solve it for us on time.

Can't see the link.

You keep telling us that someone (you haven't said who but given the number of times you have repeated it it must be someone quite eminent or a huge volume of people) is predicting big death tolls in NI in 5-6 weeks time. Post the link to that prediction.

3 extra deaths yesterday which takes it to 591.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2020/0814/1159218-covid-northern-ireland/

Northern Ireland records 74 new Covid-19 cases, one further death
Updated / Friday, 14 Aug 2020 17:34
Health Minister Robin Swann urged the public to 'stick with' the measures to tackle the virus
Health Minister Robin Swann urged the public to 'stick with' the measures to tackle the virus
The Department of Health in Northern Ireland has said 74 new cases of Covid-19 have been identified.

There has also been one further death confirmed in the past 24 hours.

The person who died is understood to have been under 40 years of the age.

The total number of deaths in Northern Ireland from Covid-19 now stands at 558 while the total number of confirmed cases is 6,299, with 242 people testing positive in the last seven days.

Health Minister Robin Swann said the number of close contacts linked to positive cases "has more than doubled since July".

In a statement today, he said: "This rise may be attributed to the easing of lockdown measures, but may also be explained by relaxing of attitudes to social distancing."

He urged people to "stick with it" and to do all they can to prevent the virus taking "hold in our society".

Meanwhile, over 250,000 people have downloaded the Covid-19 tracing app in Northern Ireland, two weeks after its launch.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/northern-ireland-covid-19-cases-spiral-as-877-cases-3-deaths-reported-1.4378677

Northern Ireland: Covid-19 cases spiral, as 877 cases, 3 deaths reported
Executive at odds over proposal for series of six-week lockdowns
about 23 hours ago
Gerry Moriarty
First Minister Arlene Foster sat Stormont. File photograph: Rebecca Black/PA Wire
First Minister Arlene Foster sat Stormont. File photograph: Rebecca Black/PA Wire


Share to Facebook
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Northern Ireland recorded three more deaths and 877 new cases of Covid-19 on Monday as Stormont Executive Ministers consider whether six-week lockdowns should be introduced in the North to curb the dramatic rise of the virus.

The North's Department of Health in its daily bulletin on Monday reported three deaths bringing the total to 591.

After almost 2,000 new cases over the weekend, the department recorded 877 new coronavirus cases on Monday, taking the total to 21,035.

In the past seven days 6,161 cases were reported. The Derry and Strabane council area, where additional restrictions are in place, is experiencing 971 virus cases per 100,000 of the population with Belfast reporting 455 cases per 100,000.

Some parts of Northern Ireland are seeing relatively low levels of incidence. In Mid and East Antrim the figure is 87 cases per 100,000 and in Ards and North Down 131 cases.

The number of people receiving hospital treatment for Covid-19 continues to rise. There are now 140 patients being treated, with 22 of them in intensive care units and 15 on ventilators.

Northern Ireland Health Minister Robin Swann. File photograph: Kelvin Boyes/Press Eye/PA Wire
Northern Ireland Health Minister Robin Swann. File photograph: Kelvin Boyes/Press Eye/PA Wire
Six-week lockdown
The Executive is expected to meet on Tuesday with evidence of renewed tensions between Ministers on how to tackle the spiralling rise in Covid-19.

The health Minister Robin Swann confirmed to the Assembly on Monday that the chief medical officer Dr Michael McBride and chief scientific adviser Prof Ian Young presented First Minister Arlene Foster and Deputy First Minister Michelle O'Neill with new written proposals on how to address the problem.

Coronavirus search: How is Covid-19 spreading in your locality?
Life under Level 3: What stays open and where can I travel?
Living with Covid plan: What is in each of the five levels?
"That paper recommends decisive action be urgently taken to save lives, prevent the health service being overwhelmed and protect non-Covid services to the greatest extent possible," said Mr Swann.

The Minister did not detail those proposals but a number of Stormont sources said they included recommendations that Northern Ireland enter an imminent six-week lockdown and that a further six-week lockdown may be required in the new year.

     

There was an expectation that the Executive would consider these proposals on Monday but sources said that instead the Executive will meet on Tuesday to try to chart a way forward.

Already, there appear to be renewed differences opening up on the issue between the two dominant parties in the Executive, the DUP and Sinn Féin.

Sinn Féin has not stated whether it would opt for a six-week lockdown. On Sunday however Sinn Féin MP Chris Hazzard suggested it was time to move away from localised measures, as pertains in the Derry and Strabane area.

"I think there was a logic and a sense behind local lockdowns at a time but I think we're now moving fast into the area where we need to be looking at more general lockdowns once again, at more general and rigorous and robust methods at being able to suppress this virus," he told the BBC.

Additional finances
The DUP leader and First Minister Ms Foster on Monday indicated that she was not in favour of a move as stringent as a six-week lockdown.

She said that "heavier restrictions however are not inevitable" if people observed the basic rules such as social distancing, wearing masks and having good respiratory hygiene.

She did not accept that the argument was simply "health versus wealth" because if businesses and jobs were lost and people ended up in poverty then that also would have health implications.

"So, we need a balanced approach," she added. "Let no one say that these next few days will contain easy decisions but what they will contain for me is weighing up some very big choices as we seek to do what is right by all of our people."

On Monday Ms Foster, Ms O'Neill and Mr Swann joined in a Cobra meeting with British prime minister Boris Johnson and representatives from the Scottish and Welsh devolved administrations on Covid-19.


After the meeting Ms O'Neill said she raised the need for additional finances from the British government. "Our Covid situation requires decisive action to stop the spread and therefore we need the finances to support workers, families and business in these challenging times," she said.

The chief executive of Belfast Chamber of Trade Simon Hamilton warned a second lockdown would be severely damaging for many businesses. "Whilst we all appreciate that the situation with the virus has taken a turn for the worse and that action is required, the Executive must equally consider the wider and longer-term impacts on society, our mental health, jobs and the economy of the choices before them," he said.

You were supposed to post a link to someone saying there would be very high NI death rates in in 5 or 6 weeks. You still haven't

No I wasn't.

I stated that if mortality rates were in line with the first wave we would have 7-800 deaths in the next 5/6 weeks.

Well can you accept that absolutely nobody has claimed that NI mortality rate will be as high in 5-6 weeks as they have been at earlier stages?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 03:37:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 03:17:24 PM
Anyone giving comments based on expertise will generally acknowledge the limitations. In this case, mainly down to the novelty of the virus. If they don't acknowledge the limitations, they're unprofessional. Similarly, it is unprofessional and unscientific to not change advice or comments where appropriate as more knowledge is accumulated. That is what separates science from pseudoscience like, say, evolutionary biology from creationism. That is why it is valid to ask what an expert's current opinion on COVID is, not just rely on what it was six months ago when we didn't know as much.

But is it a case of these experts changing their mind on the effectiveness of masks or acknowledging that whether it's effective or not that it's only a minor inconvenience for people to adhere to them?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 03:40:25 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 03:29:00 PM

Well can you accept that absolutely nobody has claimed that NI mortality rate will be as high in 5-6 weeks as they have been at earlier stages?

I cannot accept that absolutely nobody has claimed that as there are loads of doom merchants out there who do think we are all going to die from it.

As I have said countless times before, the next 5/6 weeks will be telling. The virus is so widespread now up north that we are going to be able to quantify to some regard of how much of a danger it is when that time has passed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 13, 2020, 04:04:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 13, 2020, 03:21:47 PM
The ignore function is a great yoke altogether. ;)

For clarification though, has Angelo done 0.8% or 0.008% actual work today?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 13, 2020, 04:12:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 02:19:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:52:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:31:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

You asked me for an expert who said masks don't work. There;s an expert who said it.

Here's another one.

https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/

So rather than trying to move the goalposts now, why don't you just accept that is significant difference of opinion from the "experts" on whether face masks actually work or not.

What are you on about, "moving the goalposts"?

First, most governments and public health agencies were reluctant to mandate masks for the public back in March and April because of the huge shortages at the time. Its perfectly valid to ask if the guy you posted from England still believes now what he was advocating for in April, especially given the trends in the disease and the increased availability of PPE.

Second, in that link Tegnell specifically refers to the plummeting cases in Sweden at the time (July), and Sweden was trying for herd immunity anyway. Tegnell has plenty of critics within Sweden, where cases have been far higher than its neighbours.

There's always going to be a few who go against the consensus, but you seem to be implying that the public health professionals and scientists are hopelessly confused and there are equal numbers advocating for and against mask wearing. That is not the case.

The absolute effectiveness can only be established through study and experimentation. In the meantime, the responsible thing to do is to err on the side of caution, use what we do know about airborne transmission and masks, and recommend/require their use, along with social distancing and the rest.

It's quite clear, you asked for an expert who disputed masks - I gave you one. You then moved the goalposts to say he changed his mind.

It's perfectly valid in your mind but that's also a subjective view that supports your argument and is not based on anything more than that.

There are plenty of experts who argue that masks are ineffective. The bottom line is that it's a minor inconvenience for most people to wear them so on the small chance they do slow it down experts recommend them but that doesn't mean they are an effective weapon against the virus as the experts are at odds on this - contrary to your wrongly asserted view as I have shown.

1. I did NOT say the English dude changed his mind. I questioned if he had (which you've quoted), given that the link you posted was from April 3. We're discussing this in October. A lot has happened since then. We now have six additional months of knowledge of how the disease works and how to combat and manage it. It would be unprofessional for any scientist or public health professional not to take what happened in that time into account.

2. You haven't shown any wrongly asserted view on my part. You seem to be saying that there are a significant number of experts who advocate against masks, but you haven't shown anything to support that. Tegnell is a very noted exception in this pandemic in that he is not only not recommending masks, but he is way looser with all of the other typical requirements. He is not a typical example. Outside of Scandinavia and China (and Ireland?), most of the planet has some kind of mandatory mask rules. The science may be inconclusive at this point, but they're still correctly erring on the side of caution in their advice.

You question me on what experts said masks don't work.

I provided you with one and then you tried to move the goalposts. I also provided you with another one.

It's clear as day that experts are divided on this, which you disputed so maybe in light of factual evidence of experts publicly voicing this opinion, you should accept that there are two differing fields of thoughts between experts.

Experts will divide on most things given there will always be an outlier somewhere. However if 90% of the experts claim one thing and only 10% the other. I would tend to take my chances with the 90%.

Also just on an aside, Professor Van-Tam has changed his viewpoint on masks. This is from 2 days ago. 

Professor Jonathan Van-Tam said the best way to keep transmission low and stop the NHS being overwhelmed was for people with symptoms to self-isolate and get a test, and for people to wash their hands, wear face coverings and maintain social distancing.

He also said that the country now has much better testing capabilities, knows more about the disease, and has better treatments than during the first wave.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-england-has-reached-a-tipping-point-similar-to-first-wave-deputy-chief-medical-officer-says-12101356
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 04:16:05 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 13, 2020, 04:12:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 02:19:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:52:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:31:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

You asked me for an expert who said masks don't work. There;s an expert who said it.

Here's another one.

https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/

So rather than trying to move the goalposts now, why don't you just accept that is significant difference of opinion from the "experts" on whether face masks actually work or not.

What are you on about, "moving the goalposts"?

First, most governments and public health agencies were reluctant to mandate masks for the public back in March and April because of the huge shortages at the time. Its perfectly valid to ask if the guy you posted from England still believes now what he was advocating for in April, especially given the trends in the disease and the increased availability of PPE.

Second, in that link Tegnell specifically refers to the plummeting cases in Sweden at the time (July), and Sweden was trying for herd immunity anyway. Tegnell has plenty of critics within Sweden, where cases have been far higher than its neighbours.

There's always going to be a few who go against the consensus, but you seem to be implying that the public health professionals and scientists are hopelessly confused and there are equal numbers advocating for and against mask wearing. That is not the case.

The absolute effectiveness can only be established through study and experimentation. In the meantime, the responsible thing to do is to err on the side of caution, use what we do know about airborne transmission and masks, and recommend/require their use, along with social distancing and the rest.

It's quite clear, you asked for an expert who disputed masks - I gave you one. You then moved the goalposts to say he changed his mind.

It's perfectly valid in your mind but that's also a subjective view that supports your argument and is not based on anything more than that.

There are plenty of experts who argue that masks are ineffective. The bottom line is that it's a minor inconvenience for most people to wear them so on the small chance they do slow it down experts recommend them but that doesn't mean they are an effective weapon against the virus as the experts are at odds on this - contrary to your wrongly asserted view as I have shown.

1. I did NOT say the English dude changed his mind. I questioned if he had (which you've quoted), given that the link you posted was from April 3. We're discussing this in October. A lot has happened since then. We now have six additional months of knowledge of how the disease works and how to combat and manage it. It would be unprofessional for any scientist or public health professional not to take what happened in that time into account.

2. You haven't shown any wrongly asserted view on my part. You seem to be saying that there are a significant number of experts who advocate against masks, but you haven't shown anything to support that. Tegnell is a very noted exception in this pandemic in that he is not only not recommending masks, but he is way looser with all of the other typical requirements. He is not a typical example. Outside of Scandinavia and China (and Ireland?), most of the planet has some kind of mandatory mask rules. The science may be inconclusive at this point, but they're still correctly erring on the side of caution in their advice.

You question me on what experts said masks don't work.

I provided you with one and then you tried to move the goalposts. I also provided you with another one.

It's clear as day that experts are divided on this, which you disputed so maybe in light of factual evidence of experts publicly voicing this opinion, you should accept that there are two differing fields of thoughts between experts.

Experts will divide on most things given there will always be an outlier somewhere. However if 90% of the experts claim one thing and only 10% the other. I would tend to take my chances with the 90%.

Also just on an aside, Professor Van-Tam has changed his viewpoint on masks. This is from 2 days ago. 

Professor Jonathan Van-Tam said the best way to keep transmission low and stop the NHS being overwhelmed was for people with symptoms to self-isolate and get a test, and for people to wash their hands, wear face coverings and maintain social distancing.

He also said that the country now has much better testing capabilities, knows more about the disease, and has better treatments than during the first wave.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-england-has-reached-a-tipping-point-similar-to-first-wave-deputy-chief-medical-officer-says-12101356

I don't have any opinion either way on masks.

I wear them as they are only a minor inconvenience and if they help in any way it's not a problem but it's a classic example of how little clarity science has been able to provide thus far.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 13, 2020, 04:27:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 04:16:05 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 13, 2020, 04:12:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 02:19:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:52:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:31:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

You asked me for an expert who said masks don't work. There;s an expert who said it.

Here's another one.

https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/

So rather than trying to move the goalposts now, why don't you just accept that is significant difference of opinion from the "experts" on whether face masks actually work or not.

What are you on about, "moving the goalposts"?

First, most governments and public health agencies were reluctant to mandate masks for the public back in March and April because of the huge shortages at the time. Its perfectly valid to ask if the guy you posted from England still believes now what he was advocating for in April, especially given the trends in the disease and the increased availability of PPE.

Second, in that link Tegnell specifically refers to the plummeting cases in Sweden at the time (July), and Sweden was trying for herd immunity anyway. Tegnell has plenty of critics within Sweden, where cases have been far higher than its neighbours.

There's always going to be a few who go against the consensus, but you seem to be implying that the public health professionals and scientists are hopelessly confused and there are equal numbers advocating for and against mask wearing. That is not the case.

The absolute effectiveness can only be established through study and experimentation. In the meantime, the responsible thing to do is to err on the side of caution, use what we do know about airborne transmission and masks, and recommend/require their use, along with social distancing and the rest.

It's quite clear, you asked for an expert who disputed masks - I gave you one. You then moved the goalposts to say he changed his mind.

It's perfectly valid in your mind but that's also a subjective view that supports your argument and is not based on anything more than that.

There are plenty of experts who argue that masks are ineffective. The bottom line is that it's a minor inconvenience for most people to wear them so on the small chance they do slow it down experts recommend them but that doesn't mean they are an effective weapon against the virus as the experts are at odds on this - contrary to your wrongly asserted view as I have shown.

1. I did NOT say the English dude changed his mind. I questioned if he had (which you've quoted), given that the link you posted was from April 3. We're discussing this in October. A lot has happened since then. We now have six additional months of knowledge of how the disease works and how to combat and manage it. It would be unprofessional for any scientist or public health professional not to take what happened in that time into account.

2. You haven't shown any wrongly asserted view on my part. You seem to be saying that there are a significant number of experts who advocate against masks, but you haven't shown anything to support that. Tegnell is a very noted exception in this pandemic in that he is not only not recommending masks, but he is way looser with all of the other typical requirements. He is not a typical example. Outside of Scandinavia and China (and Ireland?), most of the planet has some kind of mandatory mask rules. The science may be inconclusive at this point, but they're still correctly erring on the side of caution in their advice.

You question me on what experts said masks don't work.

I provided you with one and then you tried to move the goalposts. I also provided you with another one.

It's clear as day that experts are divided on this, which you disputed so maybe in light of factual evidence of experts publicly voicing this opinion, you should accept that there are two differing fields of thoughts between experts.

Experts will divide on most things given there will always be an outlier somewhere. However if 90% of the experts claim one thing and only 10% the other. I would tend to take my chances with the 90%.

Also just on an aside, Professor Van-Tam has changed his viewpoint on masks. This is from 2 days ago. 

Professor Jonathan Van-Tam said the best way to keep transmission low and stop the NHS being overwhelmed was for people with symptoms to self-isolate and get a test, and for people to wash their hands, wear face coverings and maintain social distancing.

He also said that the country now has much better testing capabilities, knows more about the disease, and has better treatments than during the first wave.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-england-has-reached-a-tipping-point-similar-to-first-wave-deputy-chief-medical-officer-says-12101356

I don't have any opinion either way on masks.

I wear them as they are only a minor inconvenience and if they help in any way it's not a problem but it's a classic example of how little clarity science has been able to provide thus far.

It depends what standard you are holding science to. Science has been working on testing, track and trace, treatment of the virus, vaccines, virus transfer data  and plenty of other things. All this doesn't happen overnight regardless of the global impact. If you were expecting experts to have all the data ready within a month or two then I think you are holding them to impossible standards and they were always doomed to fail. That's not to say they haven't made mistakes, but mistakes when you don't have the right information is understandable.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 04:37:48 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 13, 2020, 04:27:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 04:16:05 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 13, 2020, 04:12:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 02:19:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:52:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:31:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

You asked me for an expert who said masks don't work. There;s an expert who said it.

Here's another one.

https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/

So rather than trying to move the goalposts now, why don't you just accept that is significant difference of opinion from the "experts" on whether face masks actually work or not.

What are you on about, "moving the goalposts"?

First, most governments and public health agencies were reluctant to mandate masks for the public back in March and April because of the huge shortages at the time. Its perfectly valid to ask if the guy you posted from England still believes now what he was advocating for in April, especially given the trends in the disease and the increased availability of PPE.

Second, in that link Tegnell specifically refers to the plummeting cases in Sweden at the time (July), and Sweden was trying for herd immunity anyway. Tegnell has plenty of critics within Sweden, where cases have been far higher than its neighbours.

There's always going to be a few who go against the consensus, but you seem to be implying that the public health professionals and scientists are hopelessly confused and there are equal numbers advocating for and against mask wearing. That is not the case.

The absolute effectiveness can only be established through study and experimentation. In the meantime, the responsible thing to do is to err on the side of caution, use what we do know about airborne transmission and masks, and recommend/require their use, along with social distancing and the rest.

It's quite clear, you asked for an expert who disputed masks - I gave you one. You then moved the goalposts to say he changed his mind.

It's perfectly valid in your mind but that's also a subjective view that supports your argument and is not based on anything more than that.

There are plenty of experts who argue that masks are ineffective. The bottom line is that it's a minor inconvenience for most people to wear them so on the small chance they do slow it down experts recommend them but that doesn't mean they are an effective weapon against the virus as the experts are at odds on this - contrary to your wrongly asserted view as I have shown.

1. I did NOT say the English dude changed his mind. I questioned if he had (which you've quoted), given that the link you posted was from April 3. We're discussing this in October. A lot has happened since then. We now have six additional months of knowledge of how the disease works and how to combat and manage it. It would be unprofessional for any scientist or public health professional not to take what happened in that time into account.

2. You haven't shown any wrongly asserted view on my part. You seem to be saying that there are a significant number of experts who advocate against masks, but you haven't shown anything to support that. Tegnell is a very noted exception in this pandemic in that he is not only not recommending masks, but he is way looser with all of the other typical requirements. He is not a typical example. Outside of Scandinavia and China (and Ireland?), most of the planet has some kind of mandatory mask rules. The science may be inconclusive at this point, but they're still correctly erring on the side of caution in their advice.

You question me on what experts said masks don't work.

I provided you with one and then you tried to move the goalposts. I also provided you with another one.

It's clear as day that experts are divided on this, which you disputed so maybe in light of factual evidence of experts publicly voicing this opinion, you should accept that there are two differing fields of thoughts between experts.

Experts will divide on most things given there will always be an outlier somewhere. However if 90% of the experts claim one thing and only 10% the other. I would tend to take my chances with the 90%.

Also just on an aside, Professor Van-Tam has changed his viewpoint on masks. This is from 2 days ago. 

Professor Jonathan Van-Tam said the best way to keep transmission low and stop the NHS being overwhelmed was for people with symptoms to self-isolate and get a test, and for people to wash their hands, wear face coverings and maintain social distancing.

He also said that the country now has much better testing capabilities, knows more about the disease, and has better treatments than during the first wave.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-england-has-reached-a-tipping-point-similar-to-first-wave-deputy-chief-medical-officer-says-12101356

I don't have any opinion either way on masks.

I wear them as they are only a minor inconvenience and if they help in any way it's not a problem but it's a classic example of how little clarity science has been able to provide thus far.

It depends what standard you are holding science to. Science has been working on testing, track and trace, treatment of the virus, vaccines, virus transfer data  and plenty of other things. All this doesn't happen overnight regardless of the global impact. If you were expecting experts to have all the data ready within a month or two then I think you are holding them to impossible standards and they were always doomed to fail. That's not to say they haven't made mistakes, but mistakes when you don't have the right information is understandable.

Yes but we're in a case where time is of the essence.

How much longer can economies sustain the pressure?
How many jobs and industry sectors are going to be wiped out?
How many people face financial hardship as result?
How long are people going to accept their liberties being restricted?

A point is going to come where a certain amount of risk is going to become acceptable because the progress science is making is very slow.

The WHO recently predicted that 10% of the world has been infected at this stage, how much of the world will have contracted it by the time scientists have made the breakthrough? Will it be of little benefit by that time?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 13, 2020, 04:39:14 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 13, 2020, 04:27:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 04:16:05 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 13, 2020, 04:12:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 02:19:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:52:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:31:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

You asked me for an expert who said masks don't work. There;s an expert who said it.

Here's another one.

https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/

So rather than trying to move the goalposts now, why don't you just accept that is significant difference of opinion from the "experts" on whether face masks actually work or not.

What are you on about, "moving the goalposts"?

First, most governments and public health agencies were reluctant to mandate masks for the public back in March and April because of the huge shortages at the time. Its perfectly valid to ask if the guy you posted from England still believes now what he was advocating for in April, especially given the trends in the disease and the increased availability of PPE.

Second, in that link Tegnell specifically refers to the plummeting cases in Sweden at the time (July), and Sweden was trying for herd immunity anyway. Tegnell has plenty of critics within Sweden, where cases have been far higher than its neighbours.

There's always going to be a few who go against the consensus, but you seem to be implying that the public health professionals and scientists are hopelessly confused and there are equal numbers advocating for and against mask wearing. That is not the case.

The absolute effectiveness can only be established through study and experimentation. In the meantime, the responsible thing to do is to err on the side of caution, use what we do know about airborne transmission and masks, and recommend/require their use, along with social distancing and the rest.

It's quite clear, you asked for an expert who disputed masks - I gave you one. You then moved the goalposts to say he changed his mind.

It's perfectly valid in your mind but that's also a subjective view that supports your argument and is not based on anything more than that.

There are plenty of experts who argue that masks are ineffective. The bottom line is that it's a minor inconvenience for most people to wear them so on the small chance they do slow it down experts recommend them but that doesn't mean they are an effective weapon against the virus as the experts are at odds on this - contrary to your wrongly asserted view as I have shown.

1. I did NOT say the English dude changed his mind. I questioned if he had (which you've quoted), given that the link you posted was from April 3. We're discussing this in October. A lot has happened since then. We now have six additional months of knowledge of how the disease works and how to combat and manage it. It would be unprofessional for any scientist or public health professional not to take what happened in that time into account.

2. You haven't shown any wrongly asserted view on my part. You seem to be saying that there are a significant number of experts who advocate against masks, but you haven't shown anything to support that. Tegnell is a very noted exception in this pandemic in that he is not only not recommending masks, but he is way looser with all of the other typical requirements. He is not a typical example. Outside of Scandinavia and China (and Ireland?), most of the planet has some kind of mandatory mask rules. The science may be inconclusive at this point, but they're still correctly erring on the side of caution in their advice.

You question me on what experts said masks don't work.

I provided you with one and then you tried to move the goalposts. I also provided you with another one.

It's clear as day that experts are divided on this, which you disputed so maybe in light of factual evidence of experts publicly voicing this opinion, you should accept that there are two differing fields of thoughts between experts.

Experts will divide on most things given there will always be an outlier somewhere. However if 90% of the experts claim one thing and only 10% the other. I would tend to take my chances with the 90%.

Also just on an aside, Professor Van-Tam has changed his viewpoint on masks. This is from 2 days ago. 

Professor Jonathan Van-Tam said the best way to keep transmission low and stop the NHS being overwhelmed was for people with symptoms to self-isolate and get a test, and for people to wash their hands, wear face coverings and maintain social distancing.

He also said that the country now has much better testing capabilities, knows more about the disease, and has better treatments than during the first wave.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-england-has-reached-a-tipping-point-similar-to-first-wave-deputy-chief-medical-officer-says-12101356

I don't have any opinion either way on masks.

I wear them as they are only a minor inconvenience and if they help in any way it's not a problem but it's a classic example of how little clarity science has been able to provide thus far.

It depends what standard you are holding science to. Science has been working on testing, track and trace, treatment of the virus, vaccines, virus transfer data  and plenty of other things. All this doesn't happen overnight regardless of the global impact. If you were expecting experts to have all the data ready within a month or two then I think you are holding them to impossible standards and they were always doomed to fail. That's not to say they haven't made mistakes, but mistakes when you don't have the right information is understandable.

Hollywood movies
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 13, 2020, 04:40:06 PM
12 ICU beds left up north :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 13, 2020, 04:46:40 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 13, 2020, 04:40:06 PM
12 ICU beds left up north :(

there wasnt many anyhow and they knew this in march.

altnagelvin only ever had 5
.

stormont disgrace that they never actioned that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2020, 04:47:41 PM
This thread is turning out like another thread at the minute  ;D

A lot of angry people losing their shit on the internet
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 13, 2020, 05:02:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2020, 04:47:41 PM
This thread is turning out like another thread at the minute  ;D

A lot of angry people losing their shit on the internet

Lol.

ok ok.

But come on there should have been some action on beds as really that seems to be crux of the whole thing. If we had the beds it would lead to lesser shutdowns, no?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 13, 2020, 05:16:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 13, 2020, 05:02:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2020, 04:47:41 PM
This thread is turning out like another thread at the minute  ;D

A lot of angry people losing their shit on the internet

Lol.

ok ok.

But come on there should have been some action on beds as really that seems to be crux of the whole thing. If we had the beds it would lead to lesser shutdowns, no?

Too much like commons sense I'm afraid for our friends in Government.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2020, 05:16:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 03:37:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 03:17:24 PM
Anyone giving comments based on expertise will generally acknowledge the limitations. In this case, mainly down to the novelty of the virus. If they don't acknowledge the limitations, they're unprofessional. Similarly, it is unprofessional and unscientific to not change advice or comments where appropriate as more knowledge is accumulated. That is what separates science from pseudoscience like, say, evolutionary biology from creationism. That is why it is valid to ask what an expert's current opinion on COVID is, not just rely on what it was six months ago when we didn't know as much.

But is it a case of these experts changing their mind on the effectiveness of masks or acknowledging that whether it's effective or not that it's only a minor inconvenience for people to adhere to them?

I think it was not so much effectiveness as availability of masks and the growing realization of the importance of airborne transmission as a pathway. In the early days we were being told to leave our Amazon boxes outside for 24 hours to reduce the chances of surface transmission. Now, the concern is much more focused on the airborne pathway.

That the focus on airborne transmission coincided with the increasing production of cheap surgical-style masks was fortunate. Convenience of course matters as if it required some expensive equipment rather than easily-procured and cheap masks, then that would obviously be a factor in how we would proceed. If something costs 1000 euros a head, but you can't yet produce scientific papers to say it will reduce transmission by 80 or 90 or whatever percent, then you might be forced to look at other solutions. On the other hand, years of hygiene practice in hospitals and dentists shows that surgical mask use protects patients from infection, so even if we don't have hard scientific data on COVID, the sensible and cautious solution is to recommend/require them to at least capture droplets.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 13, 2020, 05:21:55 PM
143 deaths announced today in the UK

Big jump
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 13, 2020, 05:47:22 PM
Seven deaths, 863 new Covid cases in Northern Ireland
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 13, 2020, 07:07:26 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 13, 2020, 05:02:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2020, 04:47:41 PM
This thread is turning out like another thread at the minute  ;D

A lot of angry people losing their shit on the internet

Lol.

ok ok.

But come on there should have been some action on beds as really that seems to be crux of the whole thing. If we had the beds it would lead to lesser shutdowns, no?

There are currently 5 in the ICU with Covid in Altnagelvin, 4 non-Covid

ICU in Altnagelvin has 10 beds with a surge capacity of up to  20. 9 of the 10 are currently occupied and the unit is in pre-surge mode.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 13, 2020, 07:11:52 PM
12 icu beds spells big trouble though. Four died over 24 hours and still a growth of 3 icu beds so I would guess 7 more in 24 hours?  (I would guess the four who died came from icu?).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 13, 2020, 07:17:15 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 13, 2020, 07:07:26 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 13, 2020, 05:02:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2020, 04:47:41 PM
This thread is turning out like another thread at the minute  ;D

A lot of angry people losing their shit on the internet

Lol.

ok ok.

But come on there should have been some action on beds as really that seems to be crux of the whole thing. If we had the beds it would lead to lesser shutdowns, no?

There is currently 5 in the ICU with Covid in Altnagelvin

That's all beds full then if they are all on ventilation. There are HDU beds too however, fewer than 10
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 13, 2020, 07:19:59 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 13, 2020, 07:11:52 PM
12 icu beds spells big trouble though. Four died over 24 hours and still a growth of 3 icu beds so I would guess 7 more in 24 hours?  (I would guess the four who died came from icu?).

Probably not. In the last outbreak 21 died in Derry. None in hospital I believe
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 13, 2020, 07:21:30 PM
811 cases, 3 additional deaths in the south.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 13, 2020, 07:22:54 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 13, 2020, 07:19:59 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 13, 2020, 07:11:52 PM
12 icu beds spells big trouble though. Four died over 24 hours and still a growth of 3 icu beds so I would guess 7 more in 24 hours?  (I would guess the four who died came from icu?).

Probably not. In the last outbreak 21 died in Derry. None in hospital I believe

Not quite as bad then but 6 increase since maybe Friday then so still not great either. I wonder has nightingale been cranked up yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 13, 2020, 08:49:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 13, 2020, 07:17:15 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 13, 2020, 07:07:26 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 13, 2020, 05:02:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2020, 04:47:41 PM
This thread is turning out like another thread at the minute  ;D

A lot of angry people losing their shit on the internet

Lol.

ok ok.

But come on there should have been some action on beds as really that seems to be crux of the whole thing. If we had the beds it would lead to lesser shutdowns, no?

There is currently 5 in the ICU with Covid in Altnagelvin

That's all beds full then if they are all on ventilation. There are HDU beds too however, fewer than 10

Grim stats Fear. Hope these kinds of figures give some people a kick up the backside. How are you all feeling atm?
I've a good friend getting readmitted to hospital due to ongoing Covid symptoms (from the initial outbreak in March)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 13, 2020, 09:04:59 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 13, 2020, 08:49:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 13, 2020, 07:17:15 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 13, 2020, 07:07:26 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 13, 2020, 05:02:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2020, 04:47:41 PM
This thread is turning out like another thread at the minute  ;D

A lot of angry people losing their shit on the internet

Lol.

ok ok.

But come on there should have been some action on beds as really that seems to be crux of the whole thing. If we had the beds it would lead to lesser shutdowns, no?

There is currently 5 in the ICU with Covid in Altnagelvin

That's all beds full then if they are all on ventilation. There are HDU beds too however, fewer than 10

Grim stats Fear. Hope these kinds of figures give some people a kick up the backside. How are you all feeling atm?
I've a good friend getting readmitted to hospital due to ongoing Covid symptoms (from the initial outbreak in March)

I'm being asked back to work Thursday. I'm feeling fairly well but getting a lot of palpitations and mild  vertigo symptoms. I must admit to be slightly worried about long term symptoms. If you don't mind can you say what age your friend is and what issues is he/she experiencing now

Yes stats grim
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 13, 2020, 09:17:40 PM
PM'd
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 13, 2020, 10:17:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 13, 2020, 09:04:59 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 13, 2020, 08:49:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 13, 2020, 07:17:15 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 13, 2020, 07:07:26 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 13, 2020, 05:02:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 13, 2020, 04:47:41 PM
This thread is turning out like another thread at the minute  ;D

A lot of angry people losing their shit on the internet

Lol.

ok ok.

But come on there should have been some action on beds as really that seems to be crux of the whole thing. If we had the beds it would lead to lesser shutdowns, no?

There is currently 5 in the ICU with Covid in Altnagelvin

That's all beds full then if they are all on ventilation. There are HDU beds too however, fewer than 10

Grim stats Fear. Hope these kinds of figures give some people a kick up the backside. How are you all feeling atm?
I've a good friend getting readmitted to hospital due to ongoing Covid symptoms (from the initial outbreak in March)

I'm being asked back to work Thursday. I'm feeling fairly well but getting a lot of palpitations and mild  vertigo symptoms. I must admit to be slightly worried about long term symptoms. If you don't mind can you say what age your friend is and what issues is he/she experiencing now

Yes stats grim

Couple of weeks ago a friends young lad had similar. Headaches/light head/dizzy feeling/couldn't bear bright light. Doctors thought migraine but didn't test him. Was off school guts of two weeks.  Looking back now, I think he had the virus. Luckily nobody else in house seems to have got it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 10:21:24 PM
Schools closing?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on October 13, 2020, 11:17:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 10:21:24 PM
Schools closing?

Seems like they're going to take the 2 weeks for half term but that's been on the cards for weeks now.

What will be more interesting is why the other restrictions are... will they close hospitality again???

How strong a lockdown will it be?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: MoChara on October 14, 2020, 07:34:22 AM
I see indoor and contact sports are to be banned for 6 weeks except for elite sports, surely Inter County Hurling and football is considered elite? Thats a question not a statement lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 14, 2020, 08:09:50 AM
Are nurseries closing??

County classified as elite yeah.

Kick in the teeth for bars and restaurants doing it right.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 14, 2020, 08:17:05 AM
What about weddings? We've a wedding at the end of November in Fermanagh. Covid pending of course.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on October 14, 2020, 08:18:09 AM
My view is that it's the schools which are the major factor in spreading COVID, not the hospitality trade.  It's no coincidence schools returned a month ago and here we are now.  What were they expecting, numbers to fall after the schools went back.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 14, 2020, 08:23:21 AM
I think universities right up there but no excuse for them opening the way they did in halls etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 08:32:52 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on October 14, 2020, 08:18:09 AM
My view is that it's the schools which are the major factor in spreading COVID, not the hospitality trade.  It's no coincidence schools returned a month ago and here we are now.  What were they expecting, numbers to fall after the schools went back.

The experts has been flip flopping since day 1 about whether children are spreaders or not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 14, 2020, 08:36:49 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 08:32:52 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on October 14, 2020, 08:18:09 AM
My view is that it's the schools which are the major factor in spreading COVID, not the hospitality trade.  It's no coincidence schools returned a month ago and here we are now.  What were they expecting, numbers to fall after the schools went back.

The experts has been flip flopping since day 1 about whether children are spreaders or not.

Smurphy?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 14, 2020, 08:39:24 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 14, 2020, 08:09:50 AM
Are nurseries closing??

County classified as elite yeah.

Kick in the teeth for bars and restaurants doing it right.
If they are compensated properly it shouldn't matter
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 14, 2020, 08:43:54 AM
They clearly won't be.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 14, 2020, 08:45:02 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 14, 2020, 08:39:24 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 14, 2020, 08:09:50 AM
Are nurseries closing??

County classified as elite yeah.

Kick in the teeth for bars and restaurants doing it right.
If they are compensated properly it shouldn't matter

Are they going to compensate everyone "properly" all the way up the supply chain?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 09:28:07 AM
Only elite sport allowed.

Does that mean Derrys year is over?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 09:31:45 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 14, 2020, 08:17:05 AM
What about weddings? We've a wedding at the end of November in Fermanagh. Covid pending of course.

It could be a Zoom wedding.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 09:32:06 AM
In a spar yesterday and saw about 10 schoolchildren running around the shop as a pack, not a mask in sight. Lifting stuff, touching everything.
Man behind the counter not wearing a mask either.
Policeman happened to be in the shop at the time, he never even turned an eye to it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on October 14, 2020, 09:33:51 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on October 14, 2020, 08:18:09 AM
My view is that it's the schools which are the major factor in spreading COVID, not the hospitality trade.  It's no coincidence schools returned a month ago and here we are now.  What were they expecting, numbers to fall after the schools went back.

Have you any data to back that up? I don't think that is the case at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 09:33:58 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 09:28:07 AM
Only elite sport allowed.

Does that mean Derrys year is over?

It will be on 1st November.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 14, 2020, 09:34:08 AM
So in da Nart mainly pubs & resturants and indoor sports (ex Elite sports) to close for 4 weeks with schools for 2 over midterm? All retail to remain open with alcohol sales banned after 8pm? Current house visiting restictions to remain.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 09:46:22 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 14, 2020, 09:34:08 AM
So in da Nart mainly pubs & resturants and indoor sports (ex Elite sports) to close for 4 weeks with schools for 2 over midterm? All retail to remain open with alcohol sales banned after 8pm? Current house visiting restictions to remain.

What about people having to work in people's homes? Decorators, tilers, washing machine repair men, mobile hairdressers/podiatrists etc?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 14, 2020, 09:51:29 AM
Mobile hairdressers are banned apparently. Not sure on tradesmen but think they're probably ok.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: downjim on October 14, 2020, 09:54:50 AM
Gyms will be opened for individual weight training i take it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on October 14, 2020, 10:01:12 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on October 14, 2020, 08:18:09 AM
My view is that it's the schools which are the major factor in spreading COVID, not the hospitality trade.  It's no coincidence schools returned a month ago and here we are now.  What were they expecting, numbers to fall after the schools went back.
For me it was the universities going back that has produced this spike, not the schools.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 14, 2020, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: downjim on October 14, 2020, 09:54:50 AM
Gyms will be opened for individual weight training i take it?

Yeah just no classes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 10:15:24 AM
Kick in the teeth for certain industries, once again the scapegoats for the whole thing.

A sticky plaster over a wound that clearly needs stitching and basically a waste of everyone time and money.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 10:30:39 AM
Quote from: mackers on October 14, 2020, 10:01:12 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on October 14, 2020, 08:18:09 AM
My view is that it's the schools which are the major factor in spreading COVID, not the hospitality trade.  It's no coincidence schools returned a month ago and here we are now.  What were they expecting, numbers to fall after the schools went back.
For me it was the universities going back that has produced this spike, not the schools.

A school where people from the same district side beside each other each day is a risk, but much less than university where you have people from all places coming together and then going nack to those places at the weekend. 
One reasons schools are seen as causing this if Jimmy gets Covid then his pod at school are tested and perhaps Johnny has it also. But Jimmy brought it into the school from his family, but the way it got into the family is not recorded and that might well be a pub or similar.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 10:45:57 AM
The next few weeks will tell a lot.

The fact that there are outbreaks in 53 care homes means the death are going to be inevitable.

Do they actually record care home deaths in their figures or is it purely hospital deaths?

You would feel for those in the hospitality/bar sector though. Livelihoods will be ruined over this and you can't keep stop/starting sectors like that but to be fair Westminister do constrict what can be done in the O6.

As far as I see, the damage has already been done, the virus has been allowed run free for the past few weeks and we are now going to find out to what impact.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 10:46:37 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 14, 2020, 09:51:29 AM
Mobile hairdressers are banned apparently. Not sure on tradesmen but think they're probably ok.

It's a nightmare keeping up with it all. Is there a link somewhere that is continually updated on the rules for stuff like this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 14, 2020, 10:52:32 AM
Revealed: New 'circuit breaker' restrictions in full

Maintenance of current household restrictions. This means a continuation of the restriction on meeting indoors, and a limit on the number who can meet in a garden. There are existing exemptions for child care and maintenance etc which would stay in place. However, as close contact economy is proposed for closure, it would be consistent with that to prohibit the provision of those services (eg hairdressing) in a domestic setting;

Bubbling to be limited to a maximum of 10 people from 2 households;

No overnight stays in a private home unless in a bubble;

Work from home unless unable to do so;

in guidance, we will advise Universities and further education to deliver distance learning to the maximum extent possible with only essential face to face learning where that is a necessary and unavoidable part of the course;

Closure of the hospitality sector apart from deliveries and takeaways for food, with the existing closing time of 11pm remaining. Other take away premises will then be brought in line with hospitality with a closing time of 11pm;

Retail will stay open. However, there will be urgent engagement with the sector to ensure that retail is doing everything it can to help suppress the virus;

Closure of close contact services apart from those meeting essential health needs which will be defined in the Regulations to ensure continuation of essential health interventions and therapeutics. This will not include complimentary treatments;

No Indoor sport of any kind or organised contact sport involving household mixing other than at elite level;

No mass events Involving more than 15 people (except for allowed outdoor sporting events where the relevant number for that will continue to apply);

Gyms may remain open but for Individual training only with local enforcement in place;

Places of worship to remain open with a mandatory requirement to wear face coverings when entering and exiting. This will not apply to parties to a marriage or civil partnership;

Wedding ceremonies and civil partnerships to be limited to 25 people with no receptions. This will be implemented on Monday 19 October. Venues providing the post-ceremony or partnership celebration may remain open for this purpose this weekend but may not provide other services for people who are not part of the wedding or partnership and this will be limited to 25;

Funerals and committals to be limited to 25 people with no pre- or post-funeral gatherings;

In guidance, no unnecessary travel will be advised; • Off licenses and supermarkets will not be permitted to sell alcohol after 8pm;

We believe the above restrictions should apply for four weeks, and the continuation or amendment of any element would require Executive approval;

In Education, the half term holiday break will be extended from 19th to 30th October with schools reopening on Monday 2nd November. To permit this the Department of Education will allocate to schools two of the Optional Days and the remainder of the additional time through Exceptional Closure Days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 14, 2020, 11:02:23 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkR0J95XgAAR5ae.jpg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:04:33 AM
The best one of the lot for me is the no selling beer after 8pm in shops. Literally pointless. Almost like one can't go and buy it for the 8 hours prior.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 11:05:05 AM
A lot of this is wishy-washy. Engagement with the retail sector, but no particular obligations on them to actually do anything. Guidance on no unnecessary travel, what that is exactly? Is Bubbling a new word in the English language?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Pub Bore on October 14, 2020, 11:06:13 AM
Do hotels come under 'hospitality'?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:16:41 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 11:05:05 AM
A lot of this is wishy-washy. Engagement with the retail sector, but no particular obligations on them to actually do anything. Guidance on no unnecessary travel, what that is exactly? Is Bubbling a new word in the English language?


Page filling stuff, that's what it reads like to me.

They are going to lose the people soon, it's the same message over and over. (Obviously the useful stuff is always worth repeating of course).

What are we going to do in Mid November when everything emerges and numbers start to go up again?

Short term, buy time, hit and hope regulations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 11:24:12 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:04:33 AM
The best one of the lot for me is the no selling beer after 8pm in shops. Literally pointless. Almost like one can't go and buy it for the 8 hours prior.

Off licenses should shut, full stop.

Have a booking system in pubs, where you can only stay an hour. If you can't be arsed booking, giving details, filling a form, adhering to distancing etc to have your drink, then do without it.

And if you flaunt the rules inside pub, you're responsible for it closing. So it's up to all punters to behave otherwise no drinky.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 14, 2020, 11:25:07 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:16:41 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 11:05:05 AM
A lot of this is wishy-washy. Engagement with the retail sector, but no particular obligations on them to actually do anything. Guidance on no unnecessary travel, what that is exactly? Is Bubbling a new word in the English language?


Page filling stuff, that's what it reads like to me.

They are going to lose the people soon, it's the same message over and over. (Obviously the useful stuff is always worth repeating of course).

What are we going to do in Mid November when everything emerges and numbers start to go up again?

Short term, buy time, hit and hope regulations.

Now that we are getting Wave 2 now and not winter!? Does this mean we are going to get waves 3,4 & 5?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:31:53 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 11:24:12 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:04:33 AM
The best one of the lot for me is the no selling beer after 8pm in shops. Literally pointless. Almost like one can't go and buy it for the 8 hours prior.

Off licenses should shut, full stop.

Have a booking system in pubs, where you can only stay an hour. If you can't be arsed booking, giving details, filling a form, adhering to distancing etc to have your drink, then do without it.

And if you flaunt the rules inside pub, you're responsible for it closing. So it's up to all punters to behave otherwise no drinky.


I don't think anyone would have a problem with that - common sense approach. Again, I'm no drinker so the bars open or closed doesn't effect me in any way but I just think it's so wrong that people are buying this thing that its just spreading on the beer, it's the type of thing people throw out because it may suit their own agenda / lives. It doesn't address the actual issue one bit.

This has been the same thing now for what 7 to 8 months. It's not working.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on October 14, 2020, 11:33:43 AM
Absolutely ridiculous. Hospitality businesses have been shafted here. Probably the most controlled environment outside of a hospital. What you'll get now is just more house parties and domestic social gatherings which are virtually impossible to police on a wide scale.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 11:45:01 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 14, 2020, 11:33:43 AM
Absolutely ridiculous. Hospitality businesses have been shafted here. Probably the most controlled environment outside of a hospital. What you'll get now is just more house parties and domestic social gatherings which are virtually impossible to police on a wide scale.

That's why the off licenses should close. To stop drinking/parties at home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 14, 2020, 12:08:18 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:31:53 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 11:24:12 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:04:33 AM
The best one of the lot for me is the no selling beer after 8pm in shops. Literally pointless. Almost like one can't go and buy it for the 8 hours prior.

Off licenses should shut, full stop.

Have a booking system in pubs, where you can only stay an hour. If you can't be arsed booking, giving details, filling a form, adhering to distancing etc to have your drink, then do without it.

And if you flaunt the rules inside pub, you're responsible for it closing. So it's up to all punters to behave otherwise no drinky.


I don't think anyone would have a problem with that - common sense approach. Again, I'm no drinker so the bars open or closed doesn't effect me in any way but I just think it's so wrong that people are buying this thing that its just spreading on the beer, it's the type of thing people throw out because it may suit their own agenda / lives. It doesn't address the actual issue one bit.

This has been the same thing now for what 7 to 8 months. It's not working.

What should be done in your opinion?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 12:10:14 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 14, 2020, 12:08:18 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:31:53 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 11:24:12 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:04:33 AM
The best one of the lot for me is the no selling beer after 8pm in shops. Literally pointless. Almost like one can't go and buy it for the 8 hours prior.

Off licenses should shut, full stop.

Have a booking system in pubs, where you can only stay an hour. If you can't be arsed booking, giving details, filling a form, adhering to distancing etc to have your drink, then do without it.

And if you flaunt the rules inside pub, you're responsible for it closing. So it's up to all punters to behave otherwise no drinky.


I don't think anyone would have a problem with that - common sense approach. Again, I'm no drinker so the bars open or closed doesn't effect me in any way but I just think it's so wrong that people are buying this thing that its just spreading on the beer, it's the type of thing people throw out because it may suit their own agenda / lives. It doesn't address the actual issue one bit.

This has been the same thing now for what 7 to 8 months. It's not working.

What should be done in your opinion?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-54504785

The only effective way to combat this thing. Everything else is really hoping for the best.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 14, 2020, 12:13:25 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 11:45:01 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 14, 2020, 11:33:43 AM
Absolutely ridiculous. Hospitality businesses have been shafted here. Probably the most controlled environment outside of a hospital. What you'll get now is just more house parties and domestic social gatherings which are virtually impossible to police on a wide scale.

That's why the off licenses should close. To stop drinking/parties at home.


I really wouldn't want to inhabit the world you have in mind.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 12:13:35 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 14, 2020, 12:08:18 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:31:53 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 11:24:12 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:04:33 AM
The best one of the lot for me is the no selling beer after 8pm in shops. Literally pointless. Almost like one can't go and buy it for the 8 hours prior.

Off licenses should shut, full stop.

Have a booking system in pubs, where you can only stay an hour. If you can't be arsed booking, giving details, filling a form, adhering to distancing etc to have your drink, then do without it.

And if you flaunt the rules inside pub, you're responsible for it closing. So it's up to all punters to behave otherwise no drinky.


I don't think anyone would have a problem with that - common sense approach. Again, I'm no drinker so the bars open or closed doesn't effect me in any way but I just think it's so wrong that people are buying this thing that its just spreading on the beer, it's the type of thing people throw out because it may suit their own agenda / lives. It doesn't address the actual issue one bit.

This has been the same thing now for what 7 to 8 months. It's not working.

What should be done in your opinion?

Learn to live with it. The rate of progress science is making is not one bit encouraging. Lockdowns have detrimental effects on a much broader scale.

There is going to be a stage where we see that the impact of quelling the spread of the virus is less beneficial than learning to live with it.

The virus is rampant at the minute up north, the horse has bolted so the consequences of that will soon be seen and we will see whether what has happened over the past month or so is an acceptable level of risk or not.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Pub Bore on October 14, 2020, 12:15:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 11:45:01 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 14, 2020, 11:33:43 AM
Absolutely ridiculous. Hospitality businesses have been shafted here. Probably the most controlled environment outside of a hospital. What you'll get now is just more house parties and domestic social gatherings which are virtually impossible to police on a wide scale.

That's why the off licenses should close. To stop drinking/parties at home.

If they said offies were closing on Friday for 4 weeks the queues would be forming now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 12:19:35 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on October 14, 2020, 12:15:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 11:45:01 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 14, 2020, 11:33:43 AM
Absolutely ridiculous. Hospitality businesses have been shafted here. Probably the most controlled environment outside of a hospital. What you'll get now is just more house parties and domestic social gatherings which are virtually impossible to police on a wide scale.

That's why the off licenses should close. To stop drinking/parties at home.

If they said offies were closing on Friday for 4 weeks the queues would be forming now.

Give them no notice then. Just announce it at 7am with immediate effect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 12:21:20 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on October 14, 2020, 12:15:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 11:45:01 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 14, 2020, 11:33:43 AM
Absolutely ridiculous. Hospitality businesses have been shafted here. Probably the most controlled environment outside of a hospital. What you'll get now is just more house parties and domestic social gatherings which are virtually impossible to police on a wide scale.

That's why the off licenses should close. To stop drinking/parties at home.

If they said offies were closing on Friday for 4 weeks the queues would be forming now.

;D I know ones who thought that back in march and bought stupid amounts of tinnies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 14, 2020, 12:23:28 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 12:19:35 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on October 14, 2020, 12:15:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 11:45:01 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 14, 2020, 11:33:43 AM
Absolutely ridiculous. Hospitality businesses have been shafted here. Probably the most controlled environment outside of a hospital. What you'll get now is just more house parties and domestic social gatherings which are virtually impossible to police on a wide scale.

That's why the off licenses should close. To stop drinking/parties at home.

If they said offies were closing on Friday for 4 weeks the queues would be forming now.

Give them no notice then. Just announce it at 7am with immediate effect.

Should we kneecap anyone who distils a bottle of poitin too?

——

When cases are rising all over the world, you'd be better to look at the bigger picture than your own biases for how to get in under control.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Pub Bore on October 14, 2020, 12:23:52 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 12:19:35 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on October 14, 2020, 12:15:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 11:45:01 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 14, 2020, 11:33:43 AM
Absolutely ridiculous. Hospitality businesses have been shafted here. Probably the most controlled environment outside of a hospital. What you'll get now is just more house parties and domestic social gatherings which are virtually impossible to police on a wide scale.

That's why the off licenses should close. To stop drinking/parties at home.

If they said offies were closing on Friday for 4 weeks the queues would be forming now.

Give them no notice then. Just announce it at 7am with immediate effect.

That could unite Catholic, Protestant and Dissenter onto the streets.  A revolution by midday!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
Other half is positive, she's 27, no underlying conditions, doesnt smoke etc.
Symptoms started Monday morning, day 3 now and shes not fit to get out of bed.
This is something you want to avoid if you can help it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 14, 2020, 01:06:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
Other half is positive, she's 27, no underlying conditions, doesnt smoke etc.
Symptoms started Monday morning, day 3 now and shes not fit to get out of bed.
This is something you want to avoid if you can help it.
Absolutely.  Best wishes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on October 14, 2020, 01:14:00 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
Other half is positive, she's 27, no underlying conditions, doesnt smoke etc.
Symptoms started Monday morning, day 3 now and shes not fit to get out of bed.
This is something you want to avoid if you can help it.

Best wishes for next while. Affects different people in different ways.

You'll have to get tested now I presume.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 01:32:36 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 14, 2020, 12:23:28 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 12:19:35 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on October 14, 2020, 12:15:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 11:45:01 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 14, 2020, 11:33:43 AM
Absolutely ridiculous. Hospitality businesses have been shafted here. Probably the most controlled environment outside of a hospital. What you'll get now is just more house parties and domestic social gatherings which are virtually impossible to police on a wide scale.

That's why the off licenses should close. To stop drinking/parties at home.

If they said offies were closing on Friday for 4 weeks the queues would be forming now.

Give them no notice then. Just announce it at 7am with immediate effect.

Should we kneecap anyone who distils a bottle of poitin too?

——

When cases are rising all over the world, you'd be better to look at the bigger picture than your own biases for how to get in under control.

Yes, I know. There's lots of other areas where it's spread, and they should be addressed too. This is only one of them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 01:33:21 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on October 14, 2020, 12:23:52 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 12:19:35 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on October 14, 2020, 12:15:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 11:45:01 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 14, 2020, 11:33:43 AM
Absolutely ridiculous. Hospitality businesses have been shafted here. Probably the most controlled environment outside of a hospital. What you'll get now is just more house parties and domestic social gatherings which are virtually impossible to police on a wide scale.

That's why the off licenses should close. To stop drinking/parties at home.

If they said offies were closing on Friday for 4 weeks the queues would be forming now.

Give them no notice then. Just announce it at 7am with immediate effect.

That could unite Catholic, Protestant and Dissenter onto the streets.  A revolution by midday!

The pubs would still be open if they want a drink.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on October 14, 2020, 01:34:19 PM
 
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 12:19:35 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on October 14, 2020, 12:15:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 11:45:01 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 14, 2020, 11:33:43 AM
Absolutely ridiculous. Hospitality businesses have been shafted here. Probably the most controlled environment outside of a hospital. What you'll get now is just more house parties and domestic social gatherings which are virtually impossible to police on a wide scale.

That's why the off licenses should close. To stop drinking/parties at home.

If they said offies were closing on Friday for 4 weeks the queues would be forming now.

Give them no notice then. Just announce it at 7am with immediate effect.
;D Benny do you take a drink?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 14, 2020, 01:55:04 PM
I've ordered two cases of wine from  the site I use, Portugal Vineyards, status says shipped! hopefully here today or tomorrow lol

That'll do for the first 2 weeks!

As for Offy's shutting at 8pm nuts! Lidl are open serving drink from 8.00am! The virus must not work till 8pm though

Its punishing those that have adhered to the rules and not doing anything to those that aren't. I've been to a pub twice since they were open, temp checked questions asked details taken and places spotless, they can't do anymore but still getting shafted, so unless WHO have been hiding information on how the virus works I can't fathom why a bar has to close, if people are not adhering to the rules while in the pub fcuk them out! and bar them..

If kids are now the super spreaders keep them feckers in .. In the main (from a works perspective) I seen people every day adhering to the rules, we don't let them in otherwise.. Mask on, sanitize at door, wait in room that has been cleaned prior to their arrival and after they leave, hour consultation and repeat, and that happens all day! but a bar/cafe/restaurants that do exactly the same can't open? Nuts!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2020, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
Other half is positive, she's 27, no underlying conditions, doesnt smoke etc.
Symptoms started Monday morning, day 3 now and shes not fit to get out of bed.
This is something you want to avoid if you can help it.

That is how it was for me. The tiredness did improve daily, first 5 days I had to go back to bed around lunchtime each day and it would just come on very suddenly. Hopefully she is ok and if it follows my pattern it does improve significantly after 7 days
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2020, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
Other half is positive, she's 27, no underlying conditions, doesnt smoke etc.
Symptoms started Monday morning, day 3 now and shes not fit to get out of bed.
This is something you want to avoid if you can help it.

That is how it was for me. The tiredness did improve daily, first 5 days I had to go back to bed around lunchtime each day and it would just come on very suddenly. Hopefully she is ok and if it follows my pattern it does improve significantly after 7 days

Have you had a flu (a proper one rather than your standard, head cold/chest infection) before and how do the symptoms compare?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2020, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
Other half is positive, she's 27, no underlying conditions, doesnt smoke etc.
Symptoms started Monday morning, day 3 now and shes not fit to get out of bed.
This is something you want to avoid if you can help it.

That is how it was for me. The tiredness did improve daily, first 5 days I had to go back to bed around lunchtime each day and it would just come on very suddenly. Hopefully she is ok and if it follows my pattern it does improve significantly after 7 days

Have you had a flu (a proper one rather than your standard, head cold/chest infection) before and how do the symptoms compare?

I have had a proper flu before, she hasn't. From what I remember I couldn't eat with the flu, whereas she is eating although but alot.
Its similar I would say,  but then I know of a late 40s case with no underlying conditions who is in ICU, so it's hard to predict.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:22:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2020, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
Other half is positive, she's 27, no underlying conditions, doesnt smoke etc.
Symptoms started Monday morning, day 3 now and shes not fit to get out of bed.
This is something you want to avoid if you can help it.

That is how it was for me. The tiredness did improve daily, first 5 days I had to go back to bed around lunchtime each day and it would just come on very suddenly. Hopefully she is ok and if it follows my pattern it does improve significantly after 7 days

Have you had a flu (a proper one rather than your standard, head cold/chest infection) before and how do the symptoms compare?

I have had a proper flu before, she hasn't. From what I remember I couldn't eat with the flu, whereas she is eating although but alot.
Its similar I would say,  but then I know of a late 40s case with no underlying conditions who is in ICU, so it's hard to predict.

There's a lot of people who will get tetchy about comparing it to a flu but I don't think they realise that a flu can have fatal consequences even to fit and healthy people, Christopher Colhoun being a prime recent example of how it can impact a fit and healthy young man.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 02:23:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:22:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2020, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
Other half is positive, she's 27, no underlying conditions, doesnt smoke etc.
Symptoms started Monday morning, day 3 now and shes not fit to get out of bed.
This is something you want to avoid if you can help it.

That is how it was for me. The tiredness did improve daily, first 5 days I had to go back to bed around lunchtime each day and it would just come on very suddenly. Hopefully she is ok and if it follows my pattern it does improve significantly after 7 days

Have you had a flu (a proper one rather than your standard, head cold/chest infection) before and how do the symptoms compare?

I have had a proper flu before, she hasn't. From what I remember I couldn't eat with the flu, whereas she is eating although but alot.
Its similar I would say,  but then I know of a late 40s case with no underlying conditions who is in ICU, so it's hard to predict.

There's a lot of people who will get tetchy about comparing it to a flu but I don't think they realise that a flu can have fatal consequences even to fit and healthy people, Christopher Colhoun being a prime recent example of how it can impact a fit and healthy young man.

Exactly. If it happened to him it could happen to anyone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 14, 2020, 02:30:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:22:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2020, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
Other half is positive, she's 27, no underlying conditions, doesnt smoke etc.
Symptoms started Monday morning, day 3 now and shes not fit to get out of bed.
This is something you want to avoid if you can help it.

That is how it was for me. The tiredness did improve daily, first 5 days I had to go back to bed around lunchtime each day and it would just come on very suddenly. Hopefully she is ok and if it follows my pattern it does improve significantly after 7 days

Have you had a flu (a proper one rather than your standard, head cold/chest infection) before and how do the symptoms compare?

I have had a proper flu before, she hasn't. From what I remember I couldn't eat with the flu, whereas she is eating although but alot.
Its similar I would say,  but then I know of a late 40s case with no underlying conditions who is in ICU, so it's hard to predict.

There's a lot of people who will get tetchy about comparing it to a flu but I don't think they realise that a flu can have fatal consequences even to fit and healthy people, Christopher Colhoun being a prime recent example of how it can impact a fit and healthy young man.

They do realise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 14, 2020, 02:32:37 PM
1217 cases in the past 24hrs in the occupied 6.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:36:33 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 14, 2020, 02:30:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:22:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2020, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
Other half is positive, she's 27, no underlying conditions, doesnt smoke etc.
Symptoms started Monday morning, day 3 now and shes not fit to get out of bed.
This is something you want to avoid if you can help it.

That is how it was for me. The tiredness did improve daily, first 5 days I had to go back to bed around lunchtime each day and it would just come on very suddenly. Hopefully she is ok and if it follows my pattern it does improve significantly after 7 days

Have you had a flu (a proper one rather than your standard, head cold/chest infection) before and how do the symptoms compare?

I have had a proper flu before, she hasn't. From what I remember I couldn't eat with the flu, whereas she is eating although but alot.
Its similar I would say,  but then I know of a late 40s case with no underlying conditions who is in ICU, so it's hard to predict.

There's a lot of people who will get tetchy about comparing it to a flu but I don't think they realise that a flu can have fatal consequences even to fit and healthy people, Christopher Colhoun being a prime recent example of how it can impact a fit and healthy young man.

They do realise.

That's a leap.

Some people have never experienced a proper flu and think that it equates to a head cold or chest infection and would equate those ailments to a flu.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 14, 2020, 02:43:40 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 14, 2020, 02:32:37 PM
1217 cases in the past 24hrs in the occupied 6.

Jaysus. 13 icu beds left. They seem to have increased capacity in icu as over 100 now. Bad times.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 03:20:59 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on October 14, 2020, 01:34:19 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 12:19:35 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on October 14, 2020, 12:15:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 11:45:01 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 14, 2020, 11:33:43 AM
Absolutely ridiculous. Hospitality businesses have been shafted here. Probably the most controlled environment outside of a hospital. What you'll get now is just more house parties and domestic social gatherings which are virtually impossible to police on a wide scale.

That's why the off licenses should close. To stop drinking/parties at home.

If they said offies were closing on Friday for 4 weeks the queues would be forming now.

Give them no notice then. Just announce it at 7am with immediate effect.
;D Benny do you take a drink?

Why does that matter?

If off licenses are spreading the virus, close them. If schools are spreading the virus, close them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 14, 2020, 03:54:58 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 14, 2020, 02:32:37 PM
1217 cases in the past 24hrs in the occupied 6.

Scary.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on October 14, 2020, 04:05:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 03:20:59 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on October 14, 2020, 01:34:19 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 12:19:35 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on October 14, 2020, 12:15:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 11:45:01 AM
Quote from: general_lee on October 14, 2020, 11:33:43 AM
Absolutely ridiculous. Hospitality businesses have been shafted here. Probably the most controlled environment outside of a hospital. What you'll get now is just more house parties and domestic social gatherings which are virtually impossible to police on a wide scale.

That's why the off licenses should close. To stop drinking/parties at home.

If they said offies were closing on Friday for 4 weeks the queues would be forming now.

Give them no notice then. Just announce it at 7am with immediate effect.
;D Benny do you take a drink?

Why does that matter?

If off licenses are spreading the virus, close them. If schools are spreading the virus, close them.
What % of people who buy alcohol in off licences use that alcohol to host / attend parties?

You seem to think it is way higher than it actually is!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 14, 2020, 04:31:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:36:33 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 14, 2020, 02:30:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:22:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2020, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
Other half is positive, she's 27, no underlying conditions, doesnt smoke etc.
Symptoms started Monday morning, day 3 now and shes not fit to get out of bed.
This is something you want to avoid if you can help it.

That is how it was for me. The tiredness did improve daily, first 5 days I had to go back to bed around lunchtime each day and it would just come on very suddenly. Hopefully she is ok and if it follows my pattern it does improve significantly after 7 days

Have you had a flu (a proper one rather than your standard, head cold/chest infection) before and how do the symptoms compare?

I have had a proper flu before, she hasn't. From what I remember I couldn't eat with the flu, whereas she is eating although but alot.
Its similar I would say,  but then I know of a late 40s case with no underlying conditions who is in ICU, so it's hard to predict.

There's a lot of people who will get tetchy about comparing it to a flu but I don't think they realise that a flu can have fatal consequences even to fit and healthy people, Christopher Colhoun being a prime recent example of how it can impact a fit and healthy young man.

They do realise.

That's a leap.

Some people have never experienced a proper flu and think that it equates to a head cold or chest infection and would equate those ailments to a flu.

What's a proper flu?  Is there a proper Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 14, 2020, 04:46:22 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 14, 2020, 03:54:58 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 14, 2020, 02:32:37 PM
1217 cases in the past 24hrs in the occupied 6.

Scary.
Equivalent to about 3,200 here.
If we got a figure like that we'd be at level 5 tonight!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 14, 2020, 04:48:29 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 04:38:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:22:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2020, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
Other half is positive, she's 27, no underlying conditions, doesnt smoke etc.
Symptoms started Monday morning, day 3 now and shes not fit to get out of bed.
This is something you want to avoid if you can help it.

That is how it was for me. The tiredness did improve daily, first 5 days I had to go back to bed around lunchtime each day and it would just come on very suddenly. Hopefully she is ok and if it follows my pattern it does improve significantly after 7 days

Have you had a flu (a proper one rather than your standard, head cold/chest infection) before and how do the symptoms compare?

I have had a proper flu before, she hasn't. From what I remember I couldn't eat with the flu, whereas she is eating although but alot.
Its similar I would say,  but then I know of a late 40s case with no underlying conditions who is in ICU, so it's hard to predict.

There's a lot of people who will get tetchy about comparing it to a flu but I don't think they realise that a flu can have fatal consequences even to fit and healthy people, Christopher Colhoun being a prime recent example of how it can impact a fit and healthy young man.
People do die from the flu.
However, Covid is much worse than the flu, in general.
That's probably why people get tetchy about the comparison.

There's no way that anyone with enough intelligence to operate a computer should need this explained.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 04:50:02 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 04:38:47 PM
People do die from the flu.
However, Covid is much worse than the flu, in general.
That's probably why people get tetchy about the comparison.

The problem, as stated above, is that in colloquial speech the term flu is used for harmless enough viruses that are not flu. Real flu is indeed dangerous, but still much less dangerous than Covid, unless you are below 30. Note, that this is a log scale.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjqkEUaXYAEm0Wy?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:22:27 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 04:38:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:22:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2020, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
Other half is positive, she's 27, no underlying conditions, doesnt smoke etc.
Symptoms started Monday morning, day 3 now and shes not fit to get out of bed.
This is something you want to avoid if you can help it.

That is how it was for me. The tiredness did improve daily, first 5 days I had to go back to bed around lunchtime each day and it would just come on very suddenly. Hopefully she is ok and if it follows my pattern it does improve significantly after 7 days

Have you had a flu (a proper one rather than your standard, head cold/chest infection) before and how do the symptoms compare?

I have had a proper flu before, she hasn't. From what I remember I couldn't eat with the flu, whereas she is eating although but alot.
Its similar I would say,  but then I know of a late 40s case with no underlying conditions who is in ICU, so it's hard to predict.

There's a lot of people who will get tetchy about comparing it to a flu but I don't think they realise that a flu can have fatal consequences even to fit and healthy people, Christopher Colhoun being a prime recent example of how it can impact a fit and healthy young man.
People do die from the flu.
However, Covid is much worse than the flu, in general.
That's probably why people get tetchy about the comparison.

Is it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 14, 2020, 05:27:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:22:27 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 04:38:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:22:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2020, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
Other half is positive, she's 27, no underlying conditions, doesnt smoke etc.
Symptoms started Monday morning, day 3 now and shes not fit to get out of bed.
This is something you want to avoid if you can help it.

That is how it was for me. The tiredness did improve daily, first 5 days I had to go back to bed around lunchtime each day and it would just come on very suddenly. Hopefully she is ok and if it follows my pattern it does improve significantly after 7 days

Have you had a flu (a proper one rather than your standard, head cold/chest infection) before and how do the symptoms compare?

I have had a proper flu before, she hasn't. From what I remember I couldn't eat with the flu, whereas she is eating although but alot.
Its similar I would say,  but then I know of a late 40s case with no underlying conditions who is in ICU, so it's hard to predict.

There's a lot of people who will get tetchy about comparing it to a flu but I don't think they realise that a flu can have fatal consequences even to fit and healthy people, Christopher Colhoun being a prime recent example of how it can impact a fit and healthy young man.
People do die from the flu.
However, Covid is much worse than the flu, in general.
That's probably why people get tetchy about the comparison.

Is it?

Yes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:31:36 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 14, 2020, 05:27:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:22:27 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 04:38:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:22:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2020, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
Other half is positive, she's 27, no underlying conditions, doesnt smoke etc.
Symptoms started Monday morning, day 3 now and shes not fit to get out of bed.
This is something you want to avoid if you can help it.

That is how it was for me. The tiredness did improve daily, first 5 days I had to go back to bed around lunchtime each day and it would just come on very suddenly. Hopefully she is ok and if it follows my pattern it does improve significantly after 7 days

Have you had a flu (a proper one rather than your standard, head cold/chest infection) before and how do the symptoms compare?

I have had a proper flu before, she hasn't. From what I remember I couldn't eat with the flu, whereas she is eating although but alot.
Its similar I would say,  but then I know of a late 40s case with no underlying conditions who is in ICU, so it's hard to predict.

There's a lot of people who will get tetchy about comparing it to a flu but I don't think they realise that a flu can have fatal consequences even to fit and healthy people, Christopher Colhoun being a prime recent example of how it can impact a fit and healthy young man.
People do die from the flu.
However, Covid is much worse than the flu, in general.
That's probably why people get tetchy about the comparison.

Is it?

Yes.

How would you know?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:38:13 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 05:34:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:22:27 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 04:38:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:22:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2020, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
Other half is positive, she's 27, no underlying conditions, doesnt smoke etc.
Symptoms started Monday morning, day 3 now and shes not fit to get out of bed.
This is something you want to avoid if you can help it.

That is how it was for me. The tiredness did improve daily, first 5 days I had to go back to bed around lunchtime each day and it would just come on very suddenly. Hopefully she is ok and if it follows my pattern it does improve significantly after 7 days

Have you had a flu (a proper one rather than your standard, head cold/chest infection) before and how do the symptoms compare?

I have had a proper flu before, she hasn't. From what I remember I couldn't eat with the flu, whereas she is eating although but alot.
Its similar I would say,  but then I know of a late 40s case with no underlying conditions who is in ICU, so it's hard to predict.

There's a lot of people who will get tetchy about comparing it to a flu but I don't think they realise that a flu can have fatal consequences even to fit and healthy people, Christopher Colhoun being a prime recent example of how it can impact a fit and healthy young man.
People do die from the flu.
However, Covid is much worse than the flu, in general.
That's probably why people get tetchy about the comparison.

Is it?
Quite obviously.

How do you know that?

Some amount of ignorance being passed off here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2020, 05:42:12 PM
 :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:44:45 PM
It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

Maybe we should fly them out to WHO to help solve it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 14, 2020, 05:51:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40063940.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on October 14, 2020, 05:54:02 PM
Was there a scheme mentioned a few weeks ago to help businesses get back on their feet again?

A sort of voucher type scheme but the details were sketchy....if I can remember.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:57:56 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2020, 05:51:48 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40063940.html

Not uncommon with flu either.

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/flu-long-term-effects

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 06:05:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:44:45 PM
It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

We didn't "work it out", I posted a summary of multiple peer review scientific studies.
What evidence have you provided.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 06:11:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 06:05:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:44:45 PM
It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

We didn't "work it out", I posted a summary of multiple peer review scientific studies.
What evidence have you provided.

Because there is no evidence. How can you conclude something when we know extremely little about Covid? It's a novel virus 10 months in circulation, the bottom line is that there is very little we know about it. There's been huge spikes across Europe in the past couple of months, the virus is much more widespread, cases have doubled and tripled from the peak of the first wave but deaths aren't following suit as they did in the first wave so the next few months are going to be telling.

So quite how some of the experts can conclusively state that with certainty of the severity between flu and Covid is utterly preposterous, the only thing that will tell us that is time.

If the data follows suit as it is pointing to in the likes of Spain, Belgium, France etc with cases sky rocketing but deaths a fraction of what they were in the first wave then I think it will tell us that we have to learn to live with the virus rather than sitting on our hands waiting for science to solve something that are really struggling to make progress with.

Time will tell on this but only the most arrogant of idiots would be making conclusive statements on comparing a novel virus with influenza.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 06:17:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 06:11:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 06:05:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:44:45 PM
It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

We didn't "work it out", I posted a summary of multiple peer review scientific studies.
What evidence have you provided.

Because there is no evidence. How can you conclude something when we know extremely little about Covid? It's a novel virus 10 months in circulation, the bottom line is that there is very little we know about it. There's been huge spikes across Europe in the past couple of months, the virus is much more widespread, cases have doubled and tripled from the peak of the first wave but deaths aren't following suit as they did in the first wave so the next few months are going to be telling.

So quite how some of the experts can conclusively state that with certainty of the severity between flu and Covid is utterly preposterous, the only thing that will tell us that is time.

If the data follows suit as it is pointing to in the likes of Spain, Belgium, France etc with cases sky rocketing but deaths a fraction of what they were in the first wave then I think it will tell us that we have to learn to live with the virus rather than sitting on our hands waiting for science to solve something that are really struggling to make progress with.

Time will tell on this but only the most arrogant of idiots would be making conclusive statements on comparing a novel virus with influenza.

We know the number of people who have died and who have been hospitalised, we have had this for 7 months. Some revision of the data will take place in the future but the general fact that Covid is much worse is obvious to anyone who does not refuse to see the evidence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 14, 2020, 06:25:28 PM
2312 cases on the island of Ireland today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 14, 2020, 06:26:54 PM
Why wait till Friday? If announced today why not shut it now and decrease the numbers from doubling?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 06:29:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 06:17:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 06:11:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 06:05:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:44:45 PM
It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

We didn't "work it out", I posted a summary of multiple peer review scientific studies.
What evidence have you provided.

Because there is no evidence. How can you conclude something when we know extremely little about Covid? It's a novel virus 10 months in circulation, the bottom line is that there is very little we know about it. There's been huge spikes across Europe in the past couple of months, the virus is much more widespread, cases have doubled and tripled from the peak of the first wave but deaths aren't following suit as they did in the first wave so the next few months are going to be telling.

So quite how some of the experts can conclusively state that with certainty of the severity between flu and Covid is utterly preposterous, the only thing that will tell us that is time.

If the data follows suit as it is pointing to in the likes of Spain, Belgium, France etc with cases sky rocketing but deaths a fraction of what they were in the first wave then I think it will tell us that we have to learn to live with the virus rather than sitting on our hands waiting for science to solve something that are really struggling to make progress with.

Time will tell on this but only the most arrogant of idiots would be making conclusive statements on comparing a novel virus with influenza.

We know the number of people who have died and who have been hospitalised, we have had this for 7 months. Some revision of the data will take place in the future but the general fact that Covid is much worse is obvious to anyone who does not refuse to see the evidence.

Nope we know it's a novel virus.

The trends in the likes of Spain, France, Belgium who are undergoing massive spikes would tend to say that once prepared for the virus in terms of knowledge gained when it comes to testing and tracing, treating it and having proper resources and equipment for medical staff that it is nowhere near as potent.

France

(Up to 31 July) 1st wave - 187,919 cases, 30,265 deaths - 16% mortality rate
(31 July onwards) 2nd wave - 568,553 cases - 2,560 deaths - 0.45% mortality rate

Belgium

(Up to 31 July) 1st wave - 68,751 cases, 9,715 deaths - 14% mortality rate
(31 July onwards) 2nd wave - 165,880 cases - 506 deaths - 0.31% mortality rate

If the data of this trend continues to be stable over the next few months then I think it shows that Covid is likely something that we will be able to live with as science continues to struggle to combat it.

You seem to be another one of those people who thinks a flu is a headcold or something. If a flu gets into a nursing home in winter it will kill and it will take lives, it can take the lives of healthy, young, fit people. It can cause long term health issues and completely knock the stuffing out of you. The flu is an established virus, I think 14m vaccinations are given every year in the UK for example - which is probably a little over 20% of the population, knowledge of the flu and how we treat it are more advanced.

But there is absolutely nothing to say whatsoever that the consequences of contracting the flu is worse than covid and it won't be known for years so to have a few blowhards on the internet coming out and making such proclamations is absolutely absurd.

The second wave Europe is encountering at the minute will give us some big answers on Covid and how much better better prepared we are to cope with it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 06:41:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 06:29:44 PM
But there is absolutely nothing to say whatsoever that the consequences of contracting the flu is worse than covid and it won't be known for years so to have a few blowhards on the internet coming out and making such proclamations is absolutely absurd.

Which of the studies in the chart I posted above do you take issue with and what is wrong with their methodology, exactly?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 14, 2020, 06:41:28 PM
Is The flu is harder to catch than this virus?

Does it spread quicker?

I've had the flu once (I was 19) floored me for a few days, aching couldn't lift head off my pillow. Was bad, never had it since and I've been in big groups through the years, working as a teacher for many years and being out socially a lot!  I never got it again thankfully. So was I just lucky?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:00:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 06:41:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 06:29:44 PM
But there is absolutely nothing to say whatsoever that the consequences of contracting the flu is worse than covid and it won't be known for years so to have a few blowhards on the internet coming out and making such proclamations is absolutely absurd.

Which of the studies in the chart I posted above do you take issue with and what is wrong with their methodology, exactly?

I would say the fact that Covid is a novel virus that little is still known about and it impossible to make definitive conclusions on this. Look at the falling mortality rates that are being returned across Europe, it is defying any sort of logic to be making these types of conclusions at this juncture.

Time will tell us about Covid, we just don't know enough at the minute and it's idiotic to say otherwise.

Have you reviewed those studies yourself?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 14, 2020, 07:07:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 14, 2020, 06:41:28 PM
Is The flu is harder to catch than this virus?

Does it spread quicker?

I've had the flu once (I was 19) floored me for a few days, aching couldn't lift head off my pillow. Was bad, never had it since and I've been in big groups through the years, working as a teacher for many years and being out socially a lot!  I never got it again thankfully. So was I just lucky?

The flu seems dependent on your immune system. Some people don't get it. Some get mild symptoms. Some get the shit kicked out of them for a week sometimes. And some get the shit kicked out of them for a week every year.

I've only had one in my life. Before that I thought a flu was a bad cold. Now i'd take a month of bad colds over a couple of days of flu.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:10:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 14, 2020, 06:41:28 PM
Is The flu is harder to catch than this virus?

Does it spread quicker?

I've had the flu once (I was 19) floored me for a few days, aching couldn't lift head off my pillow. Was bad, never had it since and I've been in big groups through the years, working as a teacher for many years and being out socially a lot!  I never got it again thankfully. So was I just lucky?

At present, probably. I don't know.

Some people here clearly think a flu is a headcold or general chest infection. I had the Aussie flu a couple of years back and it was the worst dose of anything I've ever had, floored me for a good week and I'd say it was three or four months before I was fully back to myself in terms of energy etc. Covid will impact people in different ways though, like the flu does.

We live with the flu though, if someone with underlying health conditions or old or in general poor health then it can have extreme consequences. There are a lot of parallels between it and the flu by the effects and the impacts, it's impossible to say if Covid is worse or not at this point. It's a novel virus so with time, you'd expect that we will be better equipped to treat it, deal with it and prevent it.

We'll have a better idea on the severity of Covid in the next few months.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 14, 2020, 07:13:12 PM
I'm tending to agree with you Angelo. If I describe Covid as a bad flu, it's with a mark of respect/fear, not nonchalance. You really don't want to get it. But I can't recall anything ever closing for a flu, let alone a country.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:23:58 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 14, 2020, 07:13:12 PM
I'm tending to agree with you Angelo. If I describe Covid as a bad flu, it's with a mark of respect/fear, not nonchalance. You really don't want to get it. But I can't recall anything ever closing for a flu, let alone a country.

You can understand it with the novelty of it, the scenes in Bergamo and Madrid in the early stages of the virus but if the trends we are seeing across Europe in terms of deaths per positive cases continue then you have to make decisions on what the greater good is in terms of the negative impacts of lockdowns and restrictions and deaths.

We don't shut down for seasonal flu which kills thousands every winter, clearly there is an acceptable level when it comes to this. The data over the next few months will give us some answers and rationale for moving forward. There are many countries dealing with this a lot better than both sides of the border and the UK are at the minute.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:25:49 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 07:18:06 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 14, 2020, 07:13:12 PM
I'm tending to agree with you Angelo. If I describe Covid as a bad flu, it's with a mark of respect/fear, not nonchalance. You really don't want to get it. But I can't recall anything ever closing for a flu, let alone a country.
And why might that be?

Seasonal flu kills people every year.

What is an acceptable level of death?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:37:00 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 07:30:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:25:49 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 07:18:06 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 14, 2020, 07:13:12 PM
I'm tending to agree with you Angelo. If I describe Covid as a bad flu, it's with a mark of respect/fear, not nonchalance. You really don't want to get it. But I can't recall anything ever closing for a flu, let alone a country.
And why might that be?

Seasonal flu kills people every year.

What is an acceptable level of death?
Won't more people die of seasonal flu, Covid and many other things if our hospitals are completely overwhelmed with Covid patients, which the trend looks set to bring about?

That's avoiding the question. Every year the flu comes around and the consequence of that is death. So what is an acceptable level of death? That's the question we need to be asking ourselves.

There is a conflicint argument that health services and resources are being completely consumed and focused on Covid which is having a negative impact on other health problems such as cancer.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 07:48:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:37:00 PM
There is a conflicint argument that health services and resources are being completely consumed and focused on Covid which is having a negative impact on other health problems such as cancer.

Here we have the usual bollix being repeated again, what can the health services do with Covid only treat it? WTF do you expect them to do differently?
ALready in Belfast over 100 procedures cancelled because of the refusal to have restrictions sooner.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on October 14, 2020, 07:56:40 PM
Am sick of hearing all this bollox on Facebook and elsewhere about we can keep having lockdowns and there needs to be a way we can learn to live with this and so on. Yes, we can't keep having lockdowns but there already is a way to live with it. However far too many people don't want to follow the rules and think they know better. It is those people who have put us where we are today. If they had done what was asked of them all along we wouldn't be back closing schools and businesses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:56:59 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 07:46:40 PM
Does the flu cripple the health service in the same way as Covid?

That's not the same as "Do people die from it?" Yes, they do but are they coming into hospitals in the same numbers meaning that beds and treatment aren't available to anyone else?

Statistically hospital beds come under increasing pressure every winter from the flu.

Clearly there is an acceptable level of death with the seasonal flu or everything would shut down, so I'm asking you what you deem an acceptable level of death with Covid? Or are we meant to sit on our hands until science solves it, which could be years, which could be never.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 14, 2020, 07:57:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 07:48:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:37:00 PM
There is a conflicint argument that health services and resources are being completely consumed and focused on Covid which is having a negative impact on other health problems such as cancer.

Here we have the usual bollix being repeated again, what can the health services do with Covid only treat it? WTF do you expect them to do differently?
ALready in Belfast over 100 procedures cancelled because of the refusal to have restrictions sooner.

That's highly subjective. Over 100 procedures cancelled due to Covid arrangements, less so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 08:02:50 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 14, 2020, 07:56:40 PM
Am sick of hearing all this bollox on Facebook and elsewhere about we can keep having lockdowns and there needs to be a way we can learn to live with this and so on. Yes, we can't keep having lockdowns but there already is a way to live with it. However far too many people don't want to follow the rules and think they know better. It is those people who have put us where we are today. If they had done what was asked of them all along we wouldn't be back closing schools and businesses.

A way to live with it that we all know is not going to be practical, the youngsters are primarily getting scapegoated but young people are going to be reckless  and care free as is the spirit of young people. It's grand for us to lecture on that but we never lived with those type of restrictions in that time. Many of us would have grown up during varying stages of the troubles, did we stay in on a Saturday night hiding under the bed because a loyalist murder squad might target a bar we went drinking in?

What's been asked of people is not going to be pratical in the long run really? I think government planing on both sides of the border and in the UK has been really, really poor in putting in proper measures that means we have to return to lockdown type situations. It's not just a problem here - France, Belgium, Spain, Poland, Czech Republic are all seeing huge rises in cases.

We have to plan to live in these times, the prior lockdown should have allowed governments to plan and put in place measures that meant when that was over we didn't have to go back, as far as I can see - they failed. We will see in the coming weeks the cost of that failure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 08:05:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 07:48:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:37:00 PM
There is a conflicint argument that health services and resources are being completely consumed and focused on Covid which is having a negative impact on other health problems such as cancer.

Here we have the usual bollix being repeated again, what can the health services do with Covid only treat it? WTF do you expect them to do differently?
ALready in Belfast over 100 procedures cancelled because of the refusal to have restrictions sooner.

Not become too consumed with Covid, have proper resources in place that mean other critical services are not consumed by Covid.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 14, 2020, 08:06:41 PM
But HS "not enough hospital beds" is far from a new phenomenon.  Hospitals being overwhelmed is part of UK and Ireland living.

What we don't yet know about Covid is can we send most people home with paracetamol and a warm blanket, as combined with rest is often the only solution to the annual flu.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 08:11:08 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 08:03:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:56:59 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 07:46:40 PM
Does the flu cripple the health service in the same way as Covid?

That's not the same as "Do people die from it?" Yes, they do but are they coming into hospitals in the same numbers meaning that beds and treatment aren't available to anyone else?

Statistically hospital beds come under increasing pressure every winter from the flu.

Clearly there is an acceptable level of death with the seasonal flu or everything would shut down, so I'm asking you what you deem an acceptable level of death with Covid? Or are we meant to sit on our hands until science solves it, which could be years, which could be never.
I don't think there is one. People with flu & Covid will be treated and the health service will try to save their lives. Unfortunately people will still die of both.
There is an attempt, via lockdown etc to lower Covid numbers in order to stop the hospitals from being overwhelmed.
The flu doesn't overwhelm the hospitals in the same way therefore a lockdown is not seen to be required for it.

Maybe not in the same way but the flu does overwhelm hospitals at Winter and the health service does become strained and deaths do occur due to this and this is deemed an acceptable level.

So back to my question, what is an acceptable level of death. Lockdown has huge negative drawbacks to people's livelihoods, the economy and wider social and mental health problems so at what point do we say this lockdown and restrictions are counter-productive on a societal wide basis? That's a very important discussion those in power need to be discussing now.

We have been told again and again by scientists and the WHO that there is no silver bullet for Covid, it's going to be here for the medium to long terms so we simply have to learn to live with it. Some countries are making a much better fist of it that others.

Cases on the rise are going to be an inevitability.

There seems to be conflicting problems on both sides of the border - here it is the economic repercussions of quelling the spread, down south it's their dysfunctional health service being unable to cope. I think we probably have 4x the level of Covid transmissions up here at the minute that they have down south.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 08:15:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 08:05:01 PM
Not become too consumed with Covid, have proper resources in place that mean other critical services are not consumed by Covid.

There is a point that the summer was wasted. However, Swann is opening up the Nightingale again in Belfast. But you can only increase resources so much, you cannot magic up experienced doctors and nurses in the short, we are paying a price for unerinvestment in the longer term. Perhaps we should send to China, since they got rid of the virus by testing everyone, they may have a few doctors to spare.

Quote from: thewobbler on October 14, 2020, 08:06:41 PM
But HS "not enough hospital beds" is far from a new phenomenon.  Hospitals being overwhelmed is part of UK and Ireland living.

What we don't yet know about Covid is can we send most people home with paracetamol and a warm blanket, as combined with rest is often the only solution to the annual flu.

On the RTÉ news today was a blood test pioneered by Beaumont hospital and some place in Boston which attempts to predict whether Covid is going to affect you seriously, in which case they throw the kitchen sink at it, or whether you are more in the chicken soup category. If this type of test works it would be very helpful, for instance they have the monoclonal antibodies that Trump got, but not enough to go around. A test that would predict who needed this would be good.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 14, 2020, 08:17:12 PM
The Tory backbenchers are anti- lockdown .
Johnson has decided to ignore the wonks and go ahead with his 3 level.plan which the wonks say won't work. And he won't do a circuit breaker

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/10/13/boris-johnson-finally-ready-challenge-sages-coronavirus-group/"We've got to learn to live with the virus and it seems at last the PM is recognising that." 

This is potentially extremely risky
And Ireland has NI and the common travel area
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 14, 2020, 08:34:55 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:10:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 14, 2020, 06:41:28 PM
Is The flu is harder to catch than this virus?

Does it spread quicker?

I've had the flu once (I was 19) floored me for a few days, aching couldn't lift head off my pillow. Was bad, never had it since and I've been in big groups through the years, working as a teacher for many years and being out socially a lot!  I never got it again thankfully. So was I just lucky?

At present, probably. I don't know.

Some people here clearly think a flu is a headcold or general chest infection. I had the Aussie flu a couple of years back and it was the worst dose of anything I've ever had, floored me for a good week and I'd say it was three or four months before I was fully back to myself in terms of energy etc. Covid will impact people in different ways though, like the flu does.

We live with the flu though, if someone with underlying health conditions or old or in general poor health then it can have extreme consequences. There are a lot of parallels between it and the flu by the effects and the impacts, it's impossible to say if Covid is worse or not at this point. It's a novel virus so with time, you'd expect that we will be better equipped to treat it, deal with it and prevent it.

We'll have a better idea on the severity of Covid in the next few months.

So let's say the flu doesn't spread as quick, and it's harder to catch, cause I've never heard of a pandemic in the last few years for 'the flu' this virus though spreads far easier and more people get it all year round, unlike flu which is generally seasonal, thus creating an all year problem for hospitals.

Can you not see at the minute that hospitals are not ready or prepared for that? When they are ready and prepared for it I'd say yes closing everything down isn't the best solution, but until that time is it not smart to limit the admissions?

Or better I suppose to let them die?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 08:39:16 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 08:27:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 08:11:08 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 08:03:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:56:59 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 07:46:40 PM
Does the flu cripple the health service in the same way as Covid?

That's not the same as "Do people die from it?" Yes, they do but are they coming into hospitals in the same numbers meaning that beds and treatment aren't available to anyone else?

Statistically hospital beds come under increasing pressure every winter from the flu.

Clearly there is an acceptable level of death with the seasonal flu or everything would shut down, so I'm asking you what you deem an acceptable level of death with Covid? Or are we meant to sit on our hands until science solves it, which could be years, which could be never.
I don't think there is one. People with flu & Covid will be treated and the health service will try to save their lives. Unfortunately people will still die of both.
There is an attempt, via lockdown etc to lower Covid numbers in order to stop the hospitals from being overwhelmed.
The flu doesn't overwhelm the hospitals in the same way therefore a lockdown is not seen to be required for it.

Maybe not in the same way but the flu does overwhelm hospitals at Winter and the health service does become strained and deaths do occur due to this and this is deemed an acceptable level.

So back to my question, what is an acceptable level of death. Lockdown has huge negative drawbacks to people's livelihoods, the economy and wider social and mental health problems so at what point do we say this lockdown and restrictions are counter-productive on a societal wide basis? That's a very important discussion those in power need to be discussing now.

We have been told again and again by scientists and the WHO that there is no silver bullet for Covid, it's going to be here for the medium to long terms so we simply have to learn to live with it. Some countries are making a much better fist of it that others.

Cases on the rise are going to be an inevitability.

There seems to be conflicting problems on both sides of the border - here it is the economic repercussions of quelling the spread, down south it's their dysfunctional health service being unable to cope. I think we probably have 4x the level of Covid transmissions up here at the minute that they have down south.
As bad as it gets, where do you see it this winter if we let Covid run its course?

Impossible to predict.

Look we are where we are now but mistakes must not been repeated. The focus has to be not letting us be in this situation again, the problem with the political system in the O6 is that Westminister could not give a toss and you have unionism who are so subservient to them that there is not a hope they will pressure the Tories for adequate resourcing, therefore we are severly handicapped in dealing with resources for it.

Hopefully the trend that we're seeing about the virus being far, far less potent in terms of death carries out over the winter months and this will allow us to live with Covid in the long run but it's all completely speculative at the minute.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on October 14, 2020, 09:04:48 PM
Government has agreed on the advice to put Donegal Monaghan and Cavan into Level 4.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 09:05:16 PM
In fairness to Angelo, he's not a million miles away from what's probably likely to happen.

This circuit breaker is a nonsense, it looks like they are buying time to try and ease up on the NHS (And as a result, a semi normal Xmas) which is fair enough. If they have to do it, let them work away. But they have ruined untold numbers of people here. I believe we'll soon start to see a revolt against this type of thing going forward if they plan another in say January.

It's not a long term solution though, by reopening in whatever weeks it is, the numbers will begin to creep up again....we'll be basically having this same conversation until if and indeed when, there is a vaccine. And even then, not many of the people reading this will see it for maybe 1 to 2 years considering worldwide demand and their age profile, if they ever do considering the vast majority will probably never even know they have / have had it.

This virus cannot be contained until there is mass testing. It's really as simple as that. Which will not happen in the West. The West is heading towards a hit and hope herd immunity via a series of "circuit breaks" but it's political suicide to utter this publicly.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 09:16:17 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 09:05:16 PM
In fairness to Angelo, he's not a million miles away from what's probably likely to happen.

This circuit breaker is a nonsense, it looks like they are buying time to try and ease up on the NHS (And as a result, a semi normal Xmas) which is fair enough. If they have to do it, let them work away. But they have ruined untold numbers of people here. I believe we'll soon start to see a revolt against this type of thing going forward if they plan another in say January.

People can be revolting if they want, but if they oppose this plan then they have to have another one.


QuoteIt's not a long term solution though, by reopening in whatever weeks it is, the numbers will begin to creep up again....we'll be basically having this same conversation until if and indeed when, there is a vaccine. And even then, not many of the people reading this will see it for maybe 1 to 2 years considering worldwide demand and their age profile, if they ever do considering the vast majority will probably never even know they have / have had it.

No reason why a vaccine should not be distributed to all in 2021, a lot of work has been done to prime production and even to produce vaccines in advance of the approval. The first vaccine may not exterminate the virus, but it will brings things under control.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkNnsRmVoAI4h2l?format=jpg&name=medium)


QuoteThis virus cannot be contained until there is mass testing. It's really as simple as that. Which will not happen in the West. The West is heading towards a hit and hope herd immunity via a series of "circuit breaks" but it's political suicide to utter this publicly.

I very much agree that mass testing is one way forward, and might be facilitated by new testing procedures coming on stream.
The Chinese have the right idea, they used the lockdown to reduce numbers to controllable levels, then they used mass testing to mop up any remaining cases. For instance, this week they tested 9 million people because they have a few cases in one city https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54504785. You might say that this will not happen in the West, but is this to be allowed continue because of an unwillingness to test?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on October 14, 2020, 09:17:02 PM
If the bugger can be contracted more than once individually we're in for some fun.

I was talking to someone who works in ICU and surgeons operating on heart patients are seeing scarring they've never witnessed before - and are guessing that the patient has had Covid undetected previously. Added to that blood clots in the veins and arteries of the lungs, heart and brain of Covid patients are making this a 'very bad' flu for some.

Can anyone give a good reason why only Montenegro have (or had) a higher positive case rate than us recently? Bad luck or are we pure hallions?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 09:36:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 09:16:17 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 09:05:16 PM
In fairness to Angelo, he's not a million miles away from what's probably likely to happen.

This circuit breaker is a nonsense, it looks like they are buying time to try and ease up on the NHS (And as a result, a semi normal Xmas) which is fair enough. If they have to do it, let them work away. But they have ruined untold numbers of people here. I believe we'll soon start to see a revolt against this type of thing going forward if they plan another in say January.

People can be revolting if they want, but if they oppose this plan then they have to have another one.


QuoteIt's not a long term solution though, by reopening in whatever weeks it is, the numbers will begin to creep up again....we'll be basically having this same conversation until if and indeed when, there is a vaccine. And even then, not many of the people reading this will see it for maybe 1 to 2 years considering worldwide demand and their age profile, if they ever do considering the vast majority will probably never even know they have / have had it.

No reason why a vaccine should not be distributed to all in 2021, a lot of work has been done to prime production and even to produce vaccines in advance of the approval. The first vaccine may not exterminate the virus, but it will brings things under control.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkNnsRmVoAI4h2l?format=jpg&name=medium)


QuoteThis virus cannot be contained until there is mass testing. It's really as simple as that. Which will not happen in the West. The West is heading towards a hit and hope herd immunity via a series of "circuit breaks" but it's political suicide to utter this publicly.

I very much agree that mass testing is one way forward, and might be facilitated by new testing procedures coming on stream.
The Chinese have the right idea, they used the lockdown to reduce numbers to controllable levels, then they used mass testing to mop up any remaining cases. For instance, this week they tested 9 million people because they have a few cases in one city https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54504785. You might say that this will not happen in the West, but is this to be allowed continue because of an unwillingness to test?

I appreciate your optimism but I think the virus is here to stay for the long run and it's just a matter of people having to live with it. We should have answers from the second wave of how damaging it is. Around February 2021 we will have seen the cost of what has happened in the past few weeks and presumably whatever continues into the winter period.

What's for sure is we can't afford these constant states of flux with lockdowns and opening up and lockdowns and opening up so hopefully the best case scenario comes through with the second wave. These are certainly deflating times.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 14, 2020, 09:54:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 09:16:17 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 09:05:16 PM
This virus cannot be contained until there is mass testing. It's really as simple as that. Which will not happen in the West. The West is heading towards a hit and hope herd immunity via a series of "circuit breaks" but it's political suicide to utter this publicly.

I very much agree that mass testing is one way forward, and might be facilitated by new testing procedures coming on stream.
The Chinese have the right idea, they used the lockdown to reduce numbers to controllable levels, then they used mass testing to mop up any remaining cases. For instance, this week they tested 9 million people because they have a few cases in one city https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54504785. You might say that this will not happen in the West, but is this to be allowed continue because of an unwillingness to test?

What's the point in mass testing when you already have people here who know they have the virus and still piss about the place not a bother on them?

What we need here more than anything, more than circuit breaks, lockdowns, or mass testing, is for people to wise the f**k up. There's too much individualism, too much conceitedness, too much entitlement in this part of the world. Too many people who completely refuse to be inconvenienced in the slightest for any reason. Even literal life or death reasons. They deserve their parties, they deserve their holidays, they deserve to live their best lives - and f**k what that means for anyone else.

Maybe there'll be a resetting of minds when we're through the other side of this. When the realities of how our behaviours have consequences for others become even more conspicuous. That would be a good outcome.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on October 14, 2020, 09:59:39 PM
Just hitting the like button Ed Ricketss, that's about it - you can have whatever policy or restrictions you want but if people ignore it what can you really do? People are just c***ts
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 14, 2020, 10:01:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:44:45 PM
It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

Maybe we should fly them out to WHO to help solve it.

Nobody on here concluded this themselves.  They looked at the mountain of scientific and anecdotal evidence and also the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

Scientists are not 'struggling to work it out'.  The Chinese mapped the genome within a few weeks.  They are struggling to find a vaccine/treatment/cure.

You still haven't posted your evidence to the contrary though.  Why is that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 14, 2020, 10:06:50 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 14, 2020, 09:54:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 09:16:17 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 09:05:16 PM
This virus cannot be contained until there is mass testing. It's really as simple as that. Which will not happen in the West. The West is heading towards a hit and hope herd immunity via a series of "circuit breaks" but it's political suicide to utter this publicly.

I very much agree that mass testing is one way forward, and might be facilitated by new testing procedures coming on stream.
The Chinese have the right idea, they used the lockdown to reduce numbers to controllable levels, then they used mass testing to mop up any remaining cases. For instance, this week they tested 9 million people because they have a few cases in one city https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54504785. You might say that this will not happen in the West, but is this to be allowed continue because of an unwillingness to test?

What's the point in mass testing when you already have people here who know they have the virus and still piss about the place not a bother on them?

What we need here more than anything, more than circuit breaks, lockdowns, or mass testing, is for people to wise the f**k up. There's too much individualism, too much conceitedness, too much entitlement in this part of the world. Too many people who completely refuse to be inconvenienced in the slightest for any reason. Even literal life or death reasons. They deserve their parties, they deserve their holidays, they deserve to live their best lives - and f**k what that means for anyone else.

Maybe there'll be a resetting of minds when we're through the other side of this. When the realities of how our behaviours have consequences for others become even more conspicuous. That would be a good outcome.

+1

Always looking to be the victim and unwilling to take any personal responsibility.

Interesting  that those most vociferous in their objection to the 'rules' are invariably those who pretend to care most about the small businesses that these rules are there to protect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 14, 2020, 10:15:36 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 14, 2020, 09:54:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 09:16:17 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 09:05:16 PM
This virus cannot be contained until there is mass testing. It's really as simple as that. Which will not happen in the West. The West is heading towards a hit and hope herd immunity via a series of "circuit breaks" but it's political suicide to utter this publicly.

I very much agree that mass testing is one way forward, and might be facilitated by new testing procedures coming on stream.
The Chinese have the right idea, they used the lockdown to reduce numbers to controllable levels, then they used mass testing to mop up any remaining cases. For instance, this week they tested 9 million people because they have a few cases in one city https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54504785. You might say that this will not happen in the West, but is this to be allowed continue because of an unwillingness to test?

What's the point in mass testing when you already have people here who know they have the virus and still piss about the place not a bother on them?

What we need here more than anything, more than circuit breaks, lockdowns, or mass testing, is for people to wise the f**k up. There's too much individualism, too much conceitedness, too much entitlement in this part of the world. Too many people who completely refuse to be inconvenienced in the slightest for any reason. Even literal life or death reasons. They deserve their parties, they deserve their holidays, they deserve to live their best lives - and f**k what that means for anyone else.

Maybe there'll be a resetting of minds when we're through the other side of this. When the realities of how our behaviours have consequences for others become even more conspicuous. That would be a good outcome.

100% right, Ed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 10:41:58 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 14, 2020, 09:54:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 09:16:17 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 09:05:16 PM
This virus cannot be contained until there is mass testing. It's really as simple as that. Which will not happen in the West. The West is heading towards a hit and hope herd immunity via a series of "circuit breaks" but it's political suicide to utter this publicly.

I very much agree that mass testing is one way forward, and might be facilitated by new testing procedures coming on stream.
The Chinese have the right idea, they used the lockdown to reduce numbers to controllable levels, then they used mass testing to mop up any remaining cases. For instance, this week they tested 9 million people because they have a few cases in one city https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54504785. You might say that this will not happen in the West, but is this to be allowed continue because of an unwillingness to test?

What's the point in mass testing when you already have people here who know they have the virus and still piss about the place not a bother on them?

Very good point. When mass testing is introduced, I'd suggest they take over several hotels and invite people to spend their 14 days there, with free Netflix.

QuoteWhat we need here more than anything, more than circuit breaks, lockdowns, or mass testing, is for people to wise the f**k up. There's too much individualism, too much conceitedness, too much entitlement in this part of the world. Too many people who completely refuse to be inconvenienced in the slightest for any reason. Even literal life or death reasons. They deserve their parties, they deserve their holidays, they deserve to live their best lives - and f**k what that means for anyone else.

If people ease to f**k up then most things can go on with out the virus getting out of control. It is like driving, if you don't drink while driving, keep your distance, ease up a little bit and watch out for people, then we can all drive about our business and not get killed by 2 tonne yokes going along at 120Kmh. If you drive like a Finn, the roads are pretty safe, if you drive like a Somali, they are pretty unsafe. People's behaviour makes the difference.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 11:02:22 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 14, 2020, 10:01:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:44:45 PM
It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

Maybe we should fly them out to WHO to help solve it.

Nobody on here concluded this themselves.  They looked at the mountain of scientific and anecdotal evidence and also the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

Scientists are not 'struggling to work it out'.  The Chinese mapped the genome within a few weeks.  They are struggling to find a vaccine/treatment/cure.

You still haven't posted your evidence to the contrary though.  Why is that?

If you had brains you'd be dangerous, you seem to be a self-anointed expert. If the Chinese have it mapped out then are there so many open questions on the fundamentals of the virus regarding immunity, transmission, anitbodies, asymptomatic levels and their ability to transmit the virus and their immunity? You are talking through your hoop.

I don't need to add in contrary evidence because I am not making any conclusive claims - I am calling out the blowhards like yourself who are. My views are grounded in rational - we can't say anything with certainty on Covid - it's a novel virus and we have all the so called brains in the world looking at quelling its spread and they can't come up with answers. We have all the brain power in the world coming out with wide of the mark predicitions, data modellers missing their predictions by a million miles. The virus is a conundrum for the human race, it's here to stay for the medium-long term and I guess we will find out more about it as we go around.

What is important is that governments and medical bodies focus on how we can live with this virus in that medium-long term. Successive lockdowns will not cut, it's grand talking about utopian views of people sacrificing their liberties and that but let's be honest - people are cracking now, as much as it would be great if we could do kumbayas on Zoom calls - people are cracking and getting restless.

We live with seasonal flus every single year that take lives. We don't go into lockdown over it, it's an acceptable level of death - so governments need to decide what is acceptable and put in place the way we can meet that acceptable level at some sort of normality for everyone.

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking science has got this sorted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on October 14, 2020, 11:08:25 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 14, 2020, 08:06:41 PM
But HS "not enough hospital beds" is far from a new phenomenon.  Hospitals being overwhelmed is part of UK and Ireland living.

What we don't yet know about Covid is can we send most people home with paracetamol and a warm blanket, as combined with rest is often the only solution to the annual flu.
Ah seriously your taking the piss?? Have you spoke to anyone who works in the hospitals? No one is going to hospital as a precaution, that could have otherwised been sent home with a few paracetamol and a blanket. Its because they need oxygen at the very least. Its plain to see for anyone with half a brain that this thing can very quickly overwelm the health service unlike anything before including the seasonal flu. We knew this in April and we still know it now. Derry had 5 ICU beds in April and they still have 5 now. I suspect they have the same no of ventilators though I stand to be corrected on that. I'm sure there is plenty of other under resourced hospitals out there. That's why they are shitting it and locking down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 14, 2020, 11:26:27 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on October 14, 2020, 11:08:25 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 14, 2020, 08:06:41 PM
But HS "not enough hospital beds" is far from a new phenomenon.  Hospitals being overwhelmed is part of UK and Ireland living.

What we don't yet know about Covid is can we send most people home with paracetamol and a warm blanket, as combined with rest is often the only solution to the annual flu.
Ah seriously your taking the piss?? Have you spoke to anyone who works in the hospitals? No one is going to hospital as a precaution, that could have otherwised been sent home with a few paracetamol and a blanket. Its because they need oxygen at the very least. Its plain to see for anyone with half a brain that this thing can very quickly overwelm the health service unlike anything before including the seasonal flu. We knew this in April and we still know it now. Derry had 5 ICU beds in April and they still have 5 now. I suspect they have the same no of ventilators though I stand to be corrected on that. I'm sure there is plenty of other under resourced hospitals out there. That's why they are shitting it and locking down.

Altnagelvin has ICU 10 beds with a surge capacity increasing capacity to 20. This has been in place since April
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 14, 2020, 11:27:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 11:02:22 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 14, 2020, 10:01:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:44:45 PM
It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

Maybe we should fly them out to WHO to help solve it.

Nobody on here concluded this themselves.  They looked at the mountain of scientific and anecdotal evidence and also the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

Scientists are not 'struggling to work it out'.  The Chinese mapped the genome within a few weeks.  They are struggling to find a vaccine/treatment/cure.

You still haven't posted your evidence to the contrary though.  Why is that?

If you had brains you'd be dangerous, you seem to be a self-anointed expert. If the Chinese have it mapped out then are there so many open questions on the fundamentals of the virus regarding immunity, transmission, anitbodies, asymptomatic levels and their ability to transmit the virus and their immunity? You are talking through your hoop.

I don't need to add in contrary evidence because I am not making any conclusive claims - I am calling out the blowhards like yourself who are. My views are grounded in rational - we can't say anything with certainty on Covid - it's a novel virus and we have all the so called brains in the world looking at quelling its spread and they can't come up with answers. We have all the brain power in the world coming out with wide of the mark predicitions, data modellers missing their predictions by a million miles. The virus is a conundrum for the human race, it's here to stay for the medium-long term and I guess we will find out more about it as we go around.

What is important is that governments and medical bodies focus on how we can live with this virus in that medium-long term. Successive lockdowns will not cut, it's grand talking about utopian views of people sacrificing their liberties and that but let's be honest - people are cracking now, as much as it would be great if we could do kumbayas on Zoom calls - people are cracking and getting restless.

We live with seasonal flus every single year that take lives. We don't go into lockdown over it, it's an acceptable level of death - so governments need to decide what is acceptable and put in place the way we can meet that acceptable level at some sort of normality for everyone.

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking science has got this sorted.
This one is a pandemic.  Maybe that is the difference with which you are struggling?  Can you quantify your "acceptable level of death" please with regard to Covid 19?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on October 14, 2020, 11:43:11 PM
On the flu/covid point, it's worth remembering that we have a vaccine for the flu which is effective for the majority of people
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 15, 2020, 12:01:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 11:02:22 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 14, 2020, 10:01:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:44:45 PM
It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

Maybe we should fly them out to WHO to help solve it.

Nobody on here concluded this themselves.  They looked at the mountain of scientific and anecdotal evidence and also the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

Scientists are not 'struggling to work it out'.  The Chinese mapped the genome within a few weeks.  They are struggling to find a vaccine/treatment/cure.

You still haven't posted your evidence to the contrary though.  Why is that?

If you had brains you'd be dangerous, you seem to be a self-anointed expert. If the Chinese have it mapped out then are there so many open questions on the fundamentals of the virus regarding immunity, transmission, anitbodies, asymptomatic levels and their ability to transmit the virus and their immunity? You are talking through your hoop.

I don't need to add in contrary evidence because I am not making any conclusive claims - I am calling out the blowhards like yourself who are. My views are grounded in rational - we can't say anything with certainty on Covid - it's a novel virus and we have all the so called brains in the world looking at quelling its spread and they can't come up with answers. We have all the brain power in the world coming out with wide of the mark predicitions, data modellers missing their predictions by a million miles. The virus is a conundrum for the human race, it's here to stay for the medium-long term and I guess we will find out more about it as we go around.

What is important is that governments and medical bodies focus on how we can live with this virus in that medium-long term. Successive lockdowns will not cut, it's grand talking about utopian views of people sacrificing their liberties and that but let's be honest - people are cracking now, as much as it would be great if we could do kumbayas on Zoom calls - people are cracking and getting restless.

We live with seasonal flus every single year that take lives. We don't go into lockdown over it, it's an acceptable level of death - so governments need to decide what is acceptable and put in place the way we can meet that acceptable level at some sort of normality for everyone.

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking science has got this sorted.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/01/24/dna-sleuths-read-coronavirus-genome-tracing-origins-and-mutations/
This happened on 10th Jan 2020.
I'll not await an apology, as I'm quite sure that will be beyond someone of such primitive nature.

Not sure how to unpack the rest of your rant but I'd have to say that it takes some weird mental gymnastics to describe those who take their views from countless peer reviewed scientific papers as 'blowhards', yet those who take the opposite view are 'grounded in rational' (lol).  To say that 'we can't say anything with certainty on Covid' is also demonstrably wrong.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing that governments need to focus on how to live with this (at least in the medium term).  Or indeed that we will gain more knowledge about this disease with time.  These are two inane pieces of information which you seem to feel the need to repeat consistently as if you have just conjured some sort of intellectual magic trick.  Nobody was impressed the first time and they are getting less so.

Governments will try to decide what they deem an acceptable level of death in the short term.  Which is EXACTLY what they are currently doing (badly).  They seem to have decided (as most Govt's have) that an acceptable level is roughly where we were at before this disease appeared.  Given that the measure by which we judge the performance of the Govt (mostly) is the 'Excess Deaths' figure, it would seem that, subconsciously at least, most people agree.  In the long term though, it will not be Governments who decide the acceptable fatality levels.  People will decide, either individually, or as a collective.

Finally, given that I said 'They are struggling to find a vaccine/treatment/cure', your last sentence fits in well with the drivel above it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on October 15, 2020, 08:12:24 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 14, 2020, 11:26:27 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on October 14, 2020, 11:08:25 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 14, 2020, 08:06:41 PM
But HS "not enough hospital beds" is far from a new phenomenon.  Hospitals being overwhelmed is part of UK and Ireland living.

What we don't yet know about Covid is can we send most people home with paracetamol and a warm blanket, as combined with rest is often the only solution to the annual flu.
Ah seriously your taking the piss?? Have you spoke to anyone who works in the hospitals? No one is going to hospital as a precaution, that could have otherwised been sent home with a few paracetamol and a blanket. Its because they need oxygen at the very least. Its plain to see for anyone with half a brain that this thing can very quickly overwelm the health service unlike anything before including the seasonal flu. We knew this in April and we still know it now. Derry had 5 ICU beds in April and they still have 5 now. I suspect they have the same no of ventilators though I stand to be corrected on that. I'm sure there is plenty of other under resourced hospitals out there. That's why they are shitting it and locking down.

Altnagelvin has ICU 10 beds with a surge capacity increasing capacity to 20. This has been in place since April
Cheers for that Jog. I've heard that figure of 5 repeated several times, so not sure what it's in relation to. My general point in relation to the numbers of beds etc is that they have remained the same since April even with the near certainty of second and third waves.  Now I'm all for arguing that this should have been increased, but it wasn't, so it doesn't take much time before "the let her rip" strategy brings the hospital to its knees.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 08:22:27 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 14, 2020, 11:27:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 11:02:22 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 14, 2020, 10:01:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:44:45 PM
It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

Maybe we should fly them out to WHO to help solve it.

Nobody on here concluded this themselves.  They looked at the mountain of scientific and anecdotal evidence and also the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

Scientists are not 'struggling to work it out'.  The Chinese mapped the genome within a few weeks.  They are struggling to find a vaccine/treatment/cure.

You still haven't posted your evidence to the contrary though.  Why is that?

If you had brains you'd be dangerous, you seem to be a self-anointed expert. If the Chinese have it mapped out then are there so many open questions on the fundamentals of the virus regarding immunity, transmission, anitbodies, asymptomatic levels and their ability to transmit the virus and their immunity? You are talking through your hoop.

I don't need to add in contrary evidence because I am not making any conclusive claims - I am calling out the blowhards like yourself who are. My views are grounded in rational - we can't say anything with certainty on Covid - it's a novel virus and we have all the so called brains in the world looking at quelling its spread and they can't come up with answers. We have all the brain power in the world coming out with wide of the mark predicitions, data modellers missing their predictions by a million miles. The virus is a conundrum for the human race, it's here to stay for the medium-long term and I guess we will find out more about it as we go around.

What is important is that governments and medical bodies focus on how we can live with this virus in that medium-long term. Successive lockdowns will not cut, it's grand talking about utopian views of people sacrificing their liberties and that but let's be honest - people are cracking now, as much as it would be great if we could do kumbayas on Zoom calls - people are cracking and getting restless.

We live with seasonal flus every single year that take lives. We don't go into lockdown over it, it's an acceptable level of death - so governments need to decide what is acceptable and put in place the way we can meet that acceptable level at some sort of normality for everyone.

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking science has got this sorted.
This one is a pandemic.  Maybe that is the difference with which you are struggling?  Can you quantify your "acceptable level of death" please with regard to Covid 19?

That's what the government need to decide. I'm not struggling with that difference one bit, some people are though. Some people fail to understand that every decision being made is done so on a large amount of guesswork. This is not a situation unique to Ireland, all across Europe cases are surging. The next few months are going go give us a lot of answers on Covid and its fatality rate. The horse has bolted with regard to transmission so now we just wait and see what happens.

The fatality rate is trending massively downward in Europe over the past few months. If that remains consistent then it is up to governments to decide what an acceptable level of death is. We have an acceptable level of death every year with seasonal flu, we don't close down society for it - we live with it and the consequences of it.

There seems to be some very naive people here that are of the opinion we are going to find a vaccine very shortly, we are going to have the virus eradicated in the next 12 months and we will all go back to normal.

That looks extremely unlikely and lockdowns and restrictive measures will cause extreme societal problems long term. So governments need to decide what an acceptable level of death is with regard to Covid, like they do seasonal flu and plan for us to live with a virus that ain't going anywhere for the next few years.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on October 15, 2020, 08:37:15 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 08:22:27 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 14, 2020, 11:27:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 11:02:22 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 14, 2020, 10:01:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:44:45 PM
It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

Maybe we should fly them out to WHO to help solve it.

Nobody on here concluded this themselves.  They looked at the mountain of scientific and anecdotal evidence and also the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

Scientists are not 'struggling to work it out'.  The Chinese mapped the genome within a few weeks.  They are struggling to find a vaccine/treatment/cure.

You still haven't posted your evidence to the contrary though.  Why is that?

If you had brains you'd be dangerous, you seem to be a self-anointed expert. If the Chinese have it mapped out then are there so many open questions on the fundamentals of the virus regarding immunity, transmission, anitbodies, asymptomatic levels and their ability to transmit the virus and their immunity? You are talking through your hoop.

I don't need to add in contrary evidence because I am not making any conclusive claims - I am calling out the blowhards like yourself who are. My views are grounded in rational - we can't say anything with certainty on Covid - it's a novel virus and we have all the so called brains in the world looking at quelling its spread and they can't come up with answers. We have all the brain power in the world coming out with wide of the mark predicitions, data modellers missing their predictions by a million miles. The virus is a conundrum for the human race, it's here to stay for the medium-long term and I guess we will find out more about it as we go around.

What is important is that governments and medical bodies focus on how we can live with this virus in that medium-long term. Successive lockdowns will not cut, it's grand talking about utopian views of people sacrificing their liberties and that but let's be honest - people are cracking now, as much as it would be great if we could do kumbayas on Zoom calls - people are cracking and getting restless.

We live with seasonal flus every single year that take lives. We don't go into lockdown over it, it's an acceptable level of death - so governments need to decide what is acceptable and put in place the way we can meet that acceptable level at some sort of normality for everyone.

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking science has got this sorted.
This one is a pandemic.  Maybe that is the difference with which you are struggling?  Can you quantify your "acceptable level of death" please with regard to Covid 19?

That's what the government need to decide. I'm not struggling with that difference one bit, some people are though. Some people fail to understand that every decision being made is done so on a large amount of guesswork. This is not a situation unique to Ireland, all across Europe cases are surging. The next few months are going go give us a lot of answers on Covid and its fatality rate. The horse has bolted with regard to transmission so now we just wait and see what happens.

The fatality rate is trending massively downward in Europe over the past few months. If that remains consistent then it is up to governments to decide what an acceptable level of death is. We have an acceptable level of death every year with seasonal flu, we don't close down society for it - we live with it and the consequences of it.

There seems to be some very naive people here that are of the opinion we are going to find a vaccine very shortly, we are going to have the virus eradicated in the next 12 months and we will all go back to normal.

That looks extremely unlikely and lockdowns and restrictive measures will cause extreme societal problems long term. So governments need to decide what an acceptable level of death is with regard to Covid, like they do seasonal flu and plan for us to live with a virus that ain't going anywhere for the next few years.

Completely disingenuous as it's trending up over the last few weeks in lots of places.

From Friday Catalonia is shutting down the hospitality sector except for takeaway and delivery for two weeks, as well as a host of other measures
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 08:48:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 08:22:27 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 14, 2020, 11:27:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 11:02:22 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 14, 2020, 10:01:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:44:45 PM
It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

Maybe we should fly them out to WHO to help solve it.

Nobody on here concluded this themselves.  They looked at the mountain of scientific and anecdotal evidence and also the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

Scientists are not 'struggling to work it out'.  The Chinese mapped the genome within a few weeks.  They are struggling to find a vaccine/treatment/cure.

You still haven't posted your evidence to the contrary though.  Why is that?

If you had brains you'd be dangerous, you seem to be a self-anointed expert. If the Chinese have it mapped out then are there so many open questions on the fundamentals of the virus regarding immunity, transmission, anitbodies, asymptomatic levels and their ability to transmit the virus and their immunity? You are talking through your hoop.

I don't need to add in contrary evidence because I am not making any conclusive claims - I am calling out the blowhards like yourself who are. My views are grounded in rational - we can't say anything with certainty on Covid - it's a novel virus and we have all the so called brains in the world looking at quelling its spread and they can't come up with answers. We have all the brain power in the world coming out with wide of the mark predicitions, data modellers missing their predictions by a million miles. The virus is a conundrum for the human race, it's here to stay for the medium-long term and I guess we will find out more about it as we go around.

What is important is that governments and medical bodies focus on how we can live with this virus in that medium-long term. Successive lockdowns will not cut, it's grand talking about utopian views of people sacrificing their liberties and that but let's be honest - people are cracking now, as much as it would be great if we could do kumbayas on Zoom calls - people are cracking and getting restless.

We live with seasonal flus every single year that take lives. We don't go into lockdown over it, it's an acceptable level of death - so governments need to decide what is acceptable and put in place the way we can meet that acceptable level at some sort of normality for everyone.

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking science has got this sorted.
This one is a pandemic.  Maybe that is the difference with which you are struggling?  Can you quantify your "acceptable level of death" please with regard to Covid 19?

That's what the government need to decide. I'm not struggling with that difference one bit, some people are though. Some people fail to understand that every decision being made is done so on a large amount of guesswork. This is not a situation unique to Ireland, all across Europe cases are surging. The next few months are going go give us a lot of answers on Covid and its fatality rate. The horse has bolted with regard to transmission so now we just wait and see what happens.

The fatality rate is trending massively downward in Europe over the past few months. If that remains consistent then it is up to governments to decide what an acceptable level of death is. We have an acceptable level of death every year with seasonal flu, we don't close down society for it - we live with it and the consequences of it.

There seems to be some very naive people here that are of the opinion we are going to find a vaccine very shortly, we are going to have the virus eradicated in the next 12 months and we will all go back to normal.

That looks extremely unlikely and lockdowns and restrictive measures will cause extreme societal problems long term. So governments need to decide what an acceptable level of death is with regard to Covid, like they do seasonal flu and plan for us to live with a virus that ain't going anywhere for the next few years.

Is this virus seasonal?

Does the flu spread as quick as this virus?

Does the flu jab reduce the numbers dying?

I think what's acceptable is when the governments and the scientists get a handle on how to reduce it and slow down the infection rate then we can open up better with more confidence, until then I think its acceptable to err on caution rather than continue with the likes of what's happening in Liverpool/strabane and Derry.

No avoidable death should be acceptable, treatments are not being allowed to happen because the hospitals don't want to take in unwanted admissions, by getting the rate down then we can start to deal with the other conditions that are rising.

If you are encouraging people to go about as normal, as in your view there should be an acceptable death level, is reckless 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 09:03:08 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 08:48:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 08:22:27 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 14, 2020, 11:27:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 11:02:22 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 14, 2020, 10:01:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:44:45 PM
It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

Maybe we should fly them out to WHO to help solve it.

Nobody on here concluded this themselves.  They looked at the mountain of scientific and anecdotal evidence and also the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

Scientists are not 'struggling to work it out'.  The Chinese mapped the genome within a few weeks.  They are struggling to find a vaccine/treatment/cure.

You still haven't posted your evidence to the contrary though.  Why is that?

If you had brains you'd be dangerous, you seem to be a self-anointed expert. If the Chinese have it mapped out then are there so many open questions on the fundamentals of the virus regarding immunity, transmission, anitbodies, asymptomatic levels and their ability to transmit the virus and their immunity? You are talking through your hoop.

I don't need to add in contrary evidence because I am not making any conclusive claims - I am calling out the blowhards like yourself who are. My views are grounded in rational - we can't say anything with certainty on Covid - it's a novel virus and we have all the so called brains in the world looking at quelling its spread and they can't come up with answers. We have all the brain power in the world coming out with wide of the mark predicitions, data modellers missing their predictions by a million miles. The virus is a conundrum for the human race, it's here to stay for the medium-long term and I guess we will find out more about it as we go around.

What is important is that governments and medical bodies focus on how we can live with this virus in that medium-long term. Successive lockdowns will not cut, it's grand talking about utopian views of people sacrificing their liberties and that but let's be honest - people are cracking now, as much as it would be great if we could do kumbayas on Zoom calls - people are cracking and getting restless.

We live with seasonal flus every single year that take lives. We don't go into lockdown over it, it's an acceptable level of death - so governments need to decide what is acceptable and put in place the way we can meet that acceptable level at some sort of normality for everyone.

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking science has got this sorted.
This one is a pandemic.  Maybe that is the difference with which you are struggling?  Can you quantify your "acceptable level of death" please with regard to Covid 19?

That's what the government need to decide. I'm not struggling with that difference one bit, some people are though. Some people fail to understand that every decision being made is done so on a large amount of guesswork. This is not a situation unique to Ireland, all across Europe cases are surging. The next few months are going go give us a lot of answers on Covid and its fatality rate. The horse has bolted with regard to transmission so now we just wait and see what happens.

The fatality rate is trending massively downward in Europe over the past few months. If that remains consistent then it is up to governments to decide what an acceptable level of death is. We have an acceptable level of death every year with seasonal flu, we don't close down society for it - we live with it and the consequences of it.

There seems to be some very naive people here that are of the opinion we are going to find a vaccine very shortly, we are going to have the virus eradicated in the next 12 months and we will all go back to normal.

That looks extremely unlikely and lockdowns and restrictive measures will cause extreme societal problems long term. So governments need to decide what an acceptable level of death is with regard to Covid, like they do seasonal flu and plan for us to live with a virus that ain't going anywhere for the next few years.

Is this virus seasonal?

Does the flu spread as quick as this virus?

Does the flu jab reduce the numbers dying?

I think what's acceptable is when the governments and the scientists get a handle on how to reduce it and slow down the infection rate then we can open up better with more confidence, until then I think its acceptable to err on caution rather than continue with the likes of what's happening in Liverpool/strabane and Derry.

No avoidable death should be acceptable, treatments are not being allowed to happen because the hospitals don't want to take in unwanted admissions, by getting the rate down then we can start to deal with the other conditions that are rising.

If you are encouraging people to go about as normal, as in your view there should be an acceptable death level, is reckless

I don't know. I'm not encouraging anything.

We are where we are, we are doing what we are doing and time will tell and I think the next few months are going to dictate how we proceed from here.

What I do know is that hopping from lockdown to lockdown and long term restrictive measures will cause absolutely huge economic and employment problems that will have huge societal knock-on effects and potential mental health issues associated with such.

I am speaking out against idiots on here who know nothing about the virus yet are stating with authority about how it all needs to unfold. We simply don't know yet. We will find out in due time and we are in a situation in the north where the virus is surging through the community and now we have to wait and see if the consequences of such are acceptable or will have done untold damage in turn of deaths.

We live with a seasonal flu that causes deaths every year, puts enormous strain on the health service, can cause long-term lasting effects for people who get it - so clearly there is an acceptable risk we are willing to take with a virus. What is that risk?

Covid fatality rates are only trending downwards at the minute despite huge rises in new cases - if this continues then this should reflect our outlook into living with the virus. What is that acceptable level of risk we live with?

It's interesting that the WHO has criticised governments for using lockdowns as their primary weapon to fight Covid.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-world-health-organisation-doctor-backflips-on-virus-lockdowns-dont-use-them-as-a-primary-control/DQMBCUNNRCHCBLCITIMKOYXLRU/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 15, 2020, 09:05:30 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 14, 2020, 11:26:27 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on October 14, 2020, 11:08:25 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 14, 2020, 08:06:41 PM
But HS "not enough hospital beds" is far from a new phenomenon.  Hospitals being overwhelmed is part of UK and Ireland living.

What we don't yet know about Covid is can we send most people home with paracetamol and a warm blanket, as combined with rest is often the only solution to the annual flu.
Ah seriously your taking the piss?? Have you spoke to anyone who works in the hospitals? No one is going to hospital as a precaution, that could have otherwised been sent home with a few paracetamol and a blanket. Its because they need oxygen at the very least. Its plain to see for anyone with half a brain that this thing can very quickly overwelm the health service unlike anything before including the seasonal flu. We knew this in April and we still know it now. Derry had 5 ICU beds in April and they still have 5 now. I suspect they have the same no of ventilators though I stand to be corrected on that. I'm sure there is plenty of other under resourced hospitals out there. That's why they are shitting it and locking down.

Altnagelvin has ICU 10 beds with a surge capacity increasing capacity to 20. This has been in place since April

10 Beds, 10.....Jesus.

You know maybe if the NHS hadn't been obliterated via financial cuts for about 25 years we wouldn't have to be counting beds in hospitals.

Can someone in the medical profession let me know am I mad here - 10 beds in one ICU unit seems very low.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 09:20:04 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 09:03:08 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 08:48:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 08:22:27 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 14, 2020, 11:27:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 11:02:22 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 14, 2020, 10:01:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:44:45 PM
It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

Maybe we should fly them out to WHO to help solve it.

Nobody on here concluded this themselves.  They looked at the mountain of scientific and anecdotal evidence and also the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

Scientists are not 'struggling to work it out'.  The Chinese mapped the genome within a few weeks.  They are struggling to find a vaccine/treatment/cure.

You still haven't posted your evidence to the contrary though.  Why is that?

If you had brains you'd be dangerous, you seem to be a self-anointed expert. If the Chinese have it mapped out then are there so many open questions on the fundamentals of the virus regarding immunity, transmission, anitbodies, asymptomatic levels and their ability to transmit the virus and their immunity? You are talking through your hoop.

I don't need to add in contrary evidence because I am not making any conclusive claims - I am calling out the blowhards like yourself who are. My views are grounded in rational - we can't say anything with certainty on Covid - it's a novel virus and we have all the so called brains in the world looking at quelling its spread and they can't come up with answers. We have all the brain power in the world coming out with wide of the mark predicitions, data modellers missing their predictions by a million miles. The virus is a conundrum for the human race, it's here to stay for the medium-long term and I guess we will find out more about it as we go around.

What is important is that governments and medical bodies focus on how we can live with this virus in that medium-long term. Successive lockdowns will not cut, it's grand talking about utopian views of people sacrificing their liberties and that but let's be honest - people are cracking now, as much as it would be great if we could do kumbayas on Zoom calls - people are cracking and getting restless.

We live with seasonal flus every single year that take lives. We don't go into lockdown over it, it's an acceptable level of death - so governments need to decide what is acceptable and put in place the way we can meet that acceptable level at some sort of normality for everyone.

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking science has got this sorted.
This one is a pandemic.  Maybe that is the difference with which you are struggling?  Can you quantify your "acceptable level of death" please with regard to Covid 19?

That's what the government need to decide. I'm not struggling with that difference one bit, some people are though. Some people fail to understand that every decision being made is done so on a large amount of guesswork. This is not a situation unique to Ireland, all across Europe cases are surging. The next few months are going go give us a lot of answers on Covid and its fatality rate. The horse has bolted with regard to transmission so now we just wait and see what happens.

The fatality rate is trending massively downward in Europe over the past few months. If that remains consistent then it is up to governments to decide what an acceptable level of death is. We have an acceptable level of death every year with seasonal flu, we don't close down society for it - we live with it and the consequences of it.

There seems to be some very naive people here that are of the opinion we are going to find a vaccine very shortly, we are going to have the virus eradicated in the next 12 months and we will all go back to normal.

That looks extremely unlikely and lockdowns and restrictive measures will cause extreme societal problems long term. So governments need to decide what an acceptable level of death is with regard to Covid, like they do seasonal flu and plan for us to live with a virus that ain't going anywhere for the next few years.

Is this virus seasonal?

Does the flu spread as quick as this virus?

Does the flu jab reduce the numbers dying?

I think what's acceptable is when the governments and the scientists get a handle on how to reduce it and slow down the infection rate then we can open up better with more confidence, until then I think its acceptable to err on caution rather than continue with the likes of what's happening in Liverpool/strabane and Derry.

No avoidable death should be acceptable, treatments are not being allowed to happen because the hospitals don't want to take in unwanted admissions, by getting the rate down then we can start to deal with the other conditions that are rising.

If you are encouraging people to go about as normal, as in your view there should be an acceptable death level, is reckless

I don't know. I'm not encouraging anything.

We are where we are, we are doing what we are doing and time will tell and I think the next few months are going to dictate how we proceed from here.

What I do know is that hopping from lockdown to lockdown and long term restrictive measures will cause absolutely huge economic and employment problems that will have huge societal knock-on effects and potential mental health issues associated with such.

I am speaking out against idiots on here who know nothing about the virus yet are stating with authority about how it all needs to unfold. We simply don't know yet. We will find out in due time and we are in a situation in the north where the virus is surging through the community and now we have to wait and see if the consequences of such are acceptable or will have done untold damage in turn of deaths.

We live with a seasonal flu that causes deaths every year, puts enormous strain on the health service, can cause long-term lasting effects for people who get it - so clearly there is an acceptable risk we are willing to take with a virus. What is that risk?

Covid fatality rates are only trending downwards at the minute despite huge rises in new cases - if this continues then this should reflect our outlook into living with the virus. What is that acceptable level of risk we live with?

It's interesting that the WHO has criticised governments for using lockdowns as their primary weapon to fight Covid.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-world-health-organisation-doctor-backflips-on-virus-lockdowns-dont-use-them-as-a-primary-control/DQMBCUNNRCHCBLCITIMKOYXLRU/

So in your own words "I don't know" then why do you have the view you do, without out actually knowing what's the best way forward?

Do you accept that the flu is seasonal and this virus isn't? so putting them together is incorrect?

In bold surely you know nothing about it, would you put yourself in that bracket?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 09:22:53 AM
Quote from: gallsman on October 15, 2020, 08:37:15 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 08:22:27 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 14, 2020, 11:27:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 11:02:22 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 14, 2020, 10:01:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:44:45 PM
It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

Maybe we should fly them out to WHO to help solve it.

Nobody on here concluded this themselves.  They looked at the mountain of scientific and anecdotal evidence and also the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

Scientists are not 'struggling to work it out'.  The Chinese mapped the genome within a few weeks.  They are struggling to find a vaccine/treatment/cure.

You still haven't posted your evidence to the contrary though.  Why is that?

If you had brains you'd be dangerous, you seem to be a self-anointed expert. If the Chinese have it mapped out then are there so many open questions on the fundamentals of the virus regarding immunity, transmission, anitbodies, asymptomatic levels and their ability to transmit the virus and their immunity? You are talking through your hoop.

I don't need to add in contrary evidence because I am not making any conclusive claims - I am calling out the blowhards like yourself who are. My views are grounded in rational - we can't say anything with certainty on Covid - it's a novel virus and we have all the so called brains in the world looking at quelling its spread and they can't come up with answers. We have all the brain power in the world coming out with wide of the mark predicitions, data modellers missing their predictions by a million miles. The virus is a conundrum for the human race, it's here to stay for the medium-long term and I guess we will find out more about it as we go around.

What is important is that governments and medical bodies focus on how we can live with this virus in that medium-long term. Successive lockdowns will not cut, it's grand talking about utopian views of people sacrificing their liberties and that but let's be honest - people are cracking now, as much as it would be great if we could do kumbayas on Zoom calls - people are cracking and getting restless.

We live with seasonal flus every single year that take lives. We don't go into lockdown over it, it's an acceptable level of death - so governments need to decide what is acceptable and put in place the way we can meet that acceptable level at some sort of normality for everyone.

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking science has got this sorted.
This one is a pandemic.  Maybe that is the difference with which you are struggling?  Can you quantify your "acceptable level of death" please with regard to Covid 19?

That's what the government need to decide. I'm not struggling with that difference one bit, some people are though. Some people fail to understand that every decision being made is done so on a large amount of guesswork. This is not a situation unique to Ireland, all across Europe cases are surging. The next few months are going go give us a lot of answers on Covid and its fatality rate. The horse has bolted with regard to transmission so now we just wait and see what happens.

The fatality rate is trending massively downward in Europe over the past few months. If that remains consistent then it is up to governments to decide what an acceptable level of death is. We have an acceptable level of death every year with seasonal flu, we don't close down society for it - we live with it and the consequences of it.

There seems to be some very naive people here that are of the opinion we are going to find a vaccine very shortly, we are going to have the virus eradicated in the next 12 months and we will all go back to normal.

That looks extremely unlikely and lockdowns and restrictive measures will cause extreme societal problems long term. So governments need to decide what an acceptable level of death is with regard to Covid, like they do seasonal flu and plan for us to live with a virus that ain't going anywhere for the next few years.

Completely disingenuous as it's trending up over the last few weeks in lots of places.

From Friday Catalonia is shutting down the hospitality sector except for takeaway and delivery for two weeks, as well as a host of other measures

That is complete and utter horseshit. Put up some facts to support that.

If there is any country in Europe seeing fatality rates increasing from the 1st wave then I'd love you to show me rather than spreading false information.

Most countries fatality rates are falling in double digit multiples from the first wave. If you put the first wave as start - July 31 and second wave as Aug 1 - present we can see the huge fluctuations

France's fatality rate in the second wave is 35 times less than the first wave
Spain's fatality rate in the second wave is 14 times less than the first wave
Belgium's fatality rate in the second wave is 46 times less than the first wave
UK's fatality rate in the second wave is 25 times less than the first wave
Ireland's fatality rate in the second wave is 18 times less than the first wave


All across Europe the fatality rates per cases are plummeting in this second wave, if this holds up it should certainly be factored in moving forward.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:25:06 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 03:40:25 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 03:29:00 PM

Well can you accept that absolutely nobody has claimed that NI mortality rate will be as high in 5-6 weeks as they have been at earlier stages?

I cannot accept that absolutely nobody has claimed that as there are loads of doom merchants out there who do think we are all going to die from it.

As I have said countless times before, the next 5/6 weeks will be telling. The virus is so widespread now up north that we are going to be able to quantify to some regard of how much of a danger it is when that time has passed.

Well you can at least accept that you cannot point to anyone who has claimed that the NI death rate in 5-6 weeks will be as high as it was at earlier stages?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 09:27:40 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 09:20:04 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 09:03:08 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 08:48:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 08:22:27 AM
Quote from: restorepride on October 14, 2020, 11:27:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 11:02:22 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 14, 2020, 10:01:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 05:44:45 PM
It's amazing the way a few posters on a GAA messageboard are able to conclude that a novel virus that science are still struggling to work out 10 months on, is conclusively more severe than influenza.

Maybe we should fly them out to WHO to help solve it.

Nobody on here concluded this themselves.  They looked at the mountain of scientific and anecdotal evidence and also the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

Scientists are not 'struggling to work it out'.  The Chinese mapped the genome within a few weeks.  They are struggling to find a vaccine/treatment/cure.

You still haven't posted your evidence to the contrary though.  Why is that?

If you had brains you'd be dangerous, you seem to be a self-anointed expert. If the Chinese have it mapped out then are there so many open questions on the fundamentals of the virus regarding immunity, transmission, anitbodies, asymptomatic levels and their ability to transmit the virus and their immunity? You are talking through your hoop.

I don't need to add in contrary evidence because I am not making any conclusive claims - I am calling out the blowhards like yourself who are. My views are grounded in rational - we can't say anything with certainty on Covid - it's a novel virus and we have all the so called brains in the world looking at quelling its spread and they can't come up with answers. We have all the brain power in the world coming out with wide of the mark predicitions, data modellers missing their predictions by a million miles. The virus is a conundrum for the human race, it's here to stay for the medium-long term and I guess we will find out more about it as we go around.

What is important is that governments and medical bodies focus on how we can live with this virus in that medium-long term. Successive lockdowns will not cut, it's grand talking about utopian views of people sacrificing their liberties and that but let's be honest - people are cracking now, as much as it would be great if we could do kumbayas on Zoom calls - people are cracking and getting restless.

We live with seasonal flus every single year that take lives. We don't go into lockdown over it, it's an acceptable level of death - so governments need to decide what is acceptable and put in place the way we can meet that acceptable level at some sort of normality for everyone.

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking science has got this sorted.
This one is a pandemic.  Maybe that is the difference with which you are struggling?  Can you quantify your "acceptable level of death" please with regard to Covid 19?

That's what the government need to decide. I'm not struggling with that difference one bit, some people are though. Some people fail to understand that every decision being made is done so on a large amount of guesswork. This is not a situation unique to Ireland, all across Europe cases are surging. The next few months are going go give us a lot of answers on Covid and its fatality rate. The horse has bolted with regard to transmission so now we just wait and see what happens.

The fatality rate is trending massively downward in Europe over the past few months. If that remains consistent then it is up to governments to decide what an acceptable level of death is. We have an acceptable level of death every year with seasonal flu, we don't close down society for it - we live with it and the consequences of it.

There seems to be some very naive people here that are of the opinion we are going to find a vaccine very shortly, we are going to have the virus eradicated in the next 12 months and we will all go back to normal.

That looks extremely unlikely and lockdowns and restrictive measures will cause extreme societal problems long term. So governments need to decide what an acceptable level of death is with regard to Covid, like they do seasonal flu and plan for us to live with a virus that ain't going anywhere for the next few years.

Is this virus seasonal?

Does the flu spread as quick as this virus?

Does the flu jab reduce the numbers dying?

I think what's acceptable is when the governments and the scientists get a handle on how to reduce it and slow down the infection rate then we can open up better with more confidence, until then I think its acceptable to err on caution rather than continue with the likes of what's happening in Liverpool/strabane and Derry.

No avoidable death should be acceptable, treatments are not being allowed to happen because the hospitals don't want to take in unwanted admissions, by getting the rate down then we can start to deal with the other conditions that are rising.

If you are encouraging people to go about as normal, as in your view there should be an acceptable death level, is reckless

I don't know. I'm not encouraging anything.

We are where we are, we are doing what we are doing and time will tell and I think the next few months are going to dictate how we proceed from here.

What I do know is that hopping from lockdown to lockdown and long term restrictive measures will cause absolutely huge economic and employment problems that will have huge societal knock-on effects and potential mental health issues associated with such.

I am speaking out against idiots on here who know nothing about the virus yet are stating with authority about how it all needs to unfold. We simply don't know yet. We will find out in due time and we are in a situation in the north where the virus is surging through the community and now we have to wait and see if the consequences of such are acceptable or will have done untold damage in turn of deaths.

We live with a seasonal flu that causes deaths every year, puts enormous strain on the health service, can cause long-term lasting effects for people who get it - so clearly there is an acceptable risk we are willing to take with a virus. What is that risk?

Covid fatality rates are only trending downwards at the minute despite huge rises in new cases - if this continues then this should reflect our outlook into living with the virus. What is that acceptable level of risk we live with?

It's interesting that the WHO has criticised governments for using lockdowns as their primary weapon to fight Covid.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-world-health-organisation-doctor-backflips-on-virus-lockdowns-dont-use-them-as-a-primary-control/DQMBCUNNRCHCBLCITIMKOYXLRU/

So in your own words "I don't know" then why do you have the view you do, without out actually knowing what's the best way forward?

Do you accept that the flu is seasonal and this virus isn't? so putting them together is incorrect?

In bold surely you know nothing about it, would you put yourself in that bracket?

The view I have is that we won't know what the best course of action to proceed until we know more and the best course of action will be to see how what has now happened unfolds.

Doesn't matter if the flu is seasonal, we could lockdown seasonally to prevent the deaths and knock on effects to health and the health system that flu brings with it every year - we don't.

It's bizarre that you are trying to claim I am advocating any type of policy when all I'm asking for is the spoofers who are pretending to be experts on a virus that scientists are still trying to crack to hold off on claiming what is the best course of action.

We live with a flu every year that kills, the next few months are going to give us an answer on how much we have advanced with managing Covid, infections rates are surging all across Europe, if the fatality rate steadies out or continues to lower then it is something that we can live with. Flu is a perfect example of a virus we are happy to live with even though the consequences can be severe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:30:20 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 04:16:05 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 13, 2020, 04:12:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 02:19:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:52:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:31:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

You asked me for an expert who said masks don't work. There;s an expert who said it.

Here's another one.

https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/

So rather than trying to move the goalposts now, why don't you just accept that is significant difference of opinion from the "experts" on whether face masks actually work or not.

What are you on about, "moving the goalposts"?

First, most governments and public health agencies were reluctant to mandate masks for the public back in March and April because of the huge shortages at the time. Its perfectly valid to ask if the guy you posted from England still believes now what he was advocating for in April, especially given the trends in the disease and the increased availability of PPE.

Second, in that link Tegnell specifically refers to the plummeting cases in Sweden at the time (July), and Sweden was trying for herd immunity anyway. Tegnell has plenty of critics within Sweden, where cases have been far higher than its neighbours.

There's always going to be a few who go against the consensus, but you seem to be implying that the public health professionals and scientists are hopelessly confused and there are equal numbers advocating for and against mask wearing. That is not the case.

The absolute effectiveness can only be established through study and experimentation. In the meantime, the responsible thing to do is to err on the side of caution, use what we do know about airborne transmission and masks, and recommend/require their use, along with social distancing and the rest.

It's quite clear, you asked for an expert who disputed masks - I gave you one. You then moved the goalposts to say he changed his mind.

It's perfectly valid in your mind but that's also a subjective view that supports your argument and is not based on anything more than that.

There are plenty of experts who argue that masks are ineffective. The bottom line is that it's a minor inconvenience for most people to wear them so on the small chance they do slow it down experts recommend them but that doesn't mean they are an effective weapon against the virus as the experts are at odds on this - contrary to your wrongly asserted view as I have shown.

1. I did NOT say the English dude changed his mind. I questioned if he had (which you've quoted), given that the link you posted was from April 3. We're discussing this in October. A lot has happened since then. We now have six additional months of knowledge of how the disease works and how to combat and manage it. It would be unprofessional for any scientist or public health professional not to take what happened in that time into account.

2. You haven't shown any wrongly asserted view on my part. You seem to be saying that there are a significant number of experts who advocate against masks, but you haven't shown anything to support that. Tegnell is a very noted exception in this pandemic in that he is not only not recommending masks, but he is way looser with all of the other typical requirements. He is not a typical example. Outside of Scandinavia and China (and Ireland?), most of the planet has some kind of mandatory mask rules. The science may be inconclusive at this point, but they're still correctly erring on the side of caution in their advice.

You question me on what experts said masks don't work.

I provided you with one and then you tried to move the goalposts. I also provided you with another one.

It's clear as day that experts are divided on this, which you disputed so maybe in light of factual evidence of experts publicly voicing this opinion, you should accept that there are two differing fields of thoughts between experts.

Experts will divide on most things given there will always be an outlier somewhere. However if 90% of the experts claim one thing and only 10% the other. I would tend to take my chances with the 90%.

Also just on an aside, Professor Van-Tam has changed his viewpoint on masks. This is from 2 days ago. 

Professor Jonathan Van-Tam said the best way to keep transmission low and stop the NHS being overwhelmed was for people with symptoms to self-isolate and get a test, and for people to wash their hands, wear face coverings and maintain social distancing.

He also said that the country now has much better testing capabilities, knows more about the disease, and has better treatments than during the first wave.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-england-has-reached-a-tipping-point-similar-to-first-wave-deputy-chief-medical-officer-says-12101356

I don't have any opinion either way on masks.

I wear them as they are only a minor inconvenience and if they help in any way it's not a problem but it's a classic example of how little clarity science has been able to provide thus far.

You seem to think that if science doesn't have all the answers it is letting us down. And that if the evidence isn't yet there then that is science's fault. And that if people change their mind in response to new or emerging evidence that their flip flopping.

So make a decision on masks, explain it, stick to it even if the evidence changes. That seems to be you attitude so live by it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 09:32:04 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:25:06 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 03:40:25 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 03:29:00 PM

Well can you accept that absolutely nobody has claimed that NI mortality rate will be as high in 5-6 weeks as they have been at earlier stages?

I cannot accept that absolutely nobody has claimed that as there are loads of doom merchants out there who do think we are all going to die from it.

As I have said countless times before, the next 5/6 weeks will be telling. The virus is so widespread now up north that we are going to be able to quantify to some regard of how much of a danger it is when that time has passed.

Well you can at least accept that you cannot point to anyone who has claimed that the NI death rate in 5-6 weeks will be as high as it was at earlier stages?

Why are we going into massive lockdown then? It's projected by fear, I can understand that fear, I can understand that fear is the rationale behind more lockdown and restrictive measures but if the data bears out that the sort of consequences are nowhere near the fatality levels of the first wave then I think it will influence how we move forward.

We live with flu every year and it overwhelms the health system, it kills people, some are young, fit and healthy. That seems to be an acceptable risk - at which point does Covid become an acceptable risk. Is 1,000 deaths a year over 300k cases an acceptable risk for argument sake?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:35:09 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 04:37:48 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 13, 2020, 04:27:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 04:16:05 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 13, 2020, 04:12:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 02:19:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:52:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:31:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

You asked me for an expert who said masks don't work. There;s an expert who said it.

Here's another one.

https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/

So rather than trying to move the goalposts now, why don't you just accept that is significant difference of opinion from the "experts" on whether face masks actually work or not.

What are you on about, "moving the goalposts"?

First, most governments and public health agencies were reluctant to mandate masks for the public back in March and April because of the huge shortages at the time. Its perfectly valid to ask if the guy you posted from England still believes now what he was advocating for in April, especially given the trends in the disease and the increased availability of PPE.

Second, in that link Tegnell specifically refers to the plummeting cases in Sweden at the time (July), and Sweden was trying for herd immunity anyway. Tegnell has plenty of critics within Sweden, where cases have been far higher than its neighbours.

There's always going to be a few who go against the consensus, but you seem to be implying that the public health professionals and scientists are hopelessly confused and there are equal numbers advocating for and against mask wearing. That is not the case.

The absolute effectiveness can only be established through study and experimentation. In the meantime, the responsible thing to do is to err on the side of caution, use what we do know about airborne transmission and masks, and recommend/require their use, along with social distancing and the rest.

It's quite clear, you asked for an expert who disputed masks - I gave you one. You then moved the goalposts to say he changed his mind.

It's perfectly valid in your mind but that's also a subjective view that supports your argument and is not based on anything more than that.

There are plenty of experts who argue that masks are ineffective. The bottom line is that it's a minor inconvenience for most people to wear them so on the small chance they do slow it down experts recommend them but that doesn't mean they are an effective weapon against the virus as the experts are at odds on this - contrary to your wrongly asserted view as I have shown.

1. I did NOT say the English dude changed his mind. I questioned if he had (which you've quoted), given that the link you posted was from April 3. We're discussing this in October. A lot has happened since then. We now have six additional months of knowledge of how the disease works and how to combat and manage it. It would be unprofessional for any scientist or public health professional not to take what happened in that time into account.

2. You haven't shown any wrongly asserted view on my part. You seem to be saying that there are a significant number of experts who advocate against masks, but you haven't shown anything to support that. Tegnell is a very noted exception in this pandemic in that he is not only not recommending masks, but he is way looser with all of the other typical requirements. He is not a typical example. Outside of Scandinavia and China (and Ireland?), most of the planet has some kind of mandatory mask rules. The science may be inconclusive at this point, but they're still correctly erring on the side of caution in their advice.

You question me on what experts said masks don't work.

I provided you with one and then you tried to move the goalposts. I also provided you with another one.

It's clear as day that experts are divided on this, which you disputed so maybe in light of factual evidence of experts publicly voicing this opinion, you should accept that there are two differing fields of thoughts between experts.

Experts will divide on most things given there will always be an outlier somewhere. However if 90% of the experts claim one thing and only 10% the other. I would tend to take my chances with the 90%.

Also just on an aside, Professor Van-Tam has changed his viewpoint on masks. This is from 2 days ago. 

Professor Jonathan Van-Tam said the best way to keep transmission low and stop the NHS being overwhelmed was for people with symptoms to self-isolate and get a test, and for people to wash their hands, wear face coverings and maintain social distancing.

He also said that the country now has much better testing capabilities, knows more about the disease, and has better treatments than during the first wave.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-england-has-reached-a-tipping-point-similar-to-first-wave-deputy-chief-medical-officer-says-12101356

I don't have any opinion either way on masks.

I wear them as they are only a minor inconvenience and if they help in any way it's not a problem but it's a classic example of how little clarity science has been able to provide thus far.

It depends what standard you are holding science to. Science has been working on testing, track and trace, treatment of the virus, vaccines, virus transfer data  and plenty of other things. All this doesn't happen overnight regardless of the global impact. If you were expecting experts to have all the data ready within a month or two then I think you are holding them to impossible standards and they were always doomed to fail. That's not to say they haven't made mistakes, but mistakes when you don't have the right information is understandable.

Yes but we're in a case where time is of the essence.

How much longer can economies sustain the pressure?
How many jobs and industry sectors are going to be wiped out?
How many people face financial hardship as result?
How long are people going to accept their liberties being restricted?

A point is going to come where a certain amount of risk is going to become acceptable because the progress science is making is very slow.

The WHO recently predicted that 10% of the world has been infected at this stage, how much of the world will have contracted it by the time scientists have made the breakthrough? Will it be of little benefit by that time?

In terms of treatments, vaccines and understanding it is critically important that science keeps trying. Blockheads will try to get in the way but we just have to expose their idiocy

On the economic issues how many jobs will be lost if we don't get COVID sorted? What are the prospects for the global or domestic economy if we can't control, significantly treat, cure or vaccinate against Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 09:37:08 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:30:20 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 04:16:05 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 13, 2020, 04:12:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 02:19:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:52:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:31:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

You asked me for an expert who said masks don't work. There;s an expert who said it.

Here's another one.

https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/

So rather than trying to move the goalposts now, why don't you just accept that is significant difference of opinion from the "experts" on whether face masks actually work or not.

What are you on about, "moving the goalposts"?

First, most governments and public health agencies were reluctant to mandate masks for the public back in March and April because of the huge shortages at the time. Its perfectly valid to ask if the guy you posted from England still believes now what he was advocating for in April, especially given the trends in the disease and the increased availability of PPE.

Second, in that link Tegnell specifically refers to the plummeting cases in Sweden at the time (July), and Sweden was trying for herd immunity anyway. Tegnell has plenty of critics within Sweden, where cases have been far higher than its neighbours.

There's always going to be a few who go against the consensus, but you seem to be implying that the public health professionals and scientists are hopelessly confused and there are equal numbers advocating for and against mask wearing. That is not the case.

The absolute effectiveness can only be established through study and experimentation. In the meantime, the responsible thing to do is to err on the side of caution, use what we do know about airborne transmission and masks, and recommend/require their use, along with social distancing and the rest.

It's quite clear, you asked for an expert who disputed masks - I gave you one. You then moved the goalposts to say he changed his mind.

It's perfectly valid in your mind but that's also a subjective view that supports your argument and is not based on anything more than that.

There are plenty of experts who argue that masks are ineffective. The bottom line is that it's a minor inconvenience for most people to wear them so on the small chance they do slow it down experts recommend them but that doesn't mean they are an effective weapon against the virus as the experts are at odds on this - contrary to your wrongly asserted view as I have shown.

1. I did NOT say the English dude changed his mind. I questioned if he had (which you've quoted), given that the link you posted was from April 3. We're discussing this in October. A lot has happened since then. We now have six additional months of knowledge of how the disease works and how to combat and manage it. It would be unprofessional for any scientist or public health professional not to take what happened in that time into account.

2. You haven't shown any wrongly asserted view on my part. You seem to be saying that there are a significant number of experts who advocate against masks, but you haven't shown anything to support that. Tegnell is a very noted exception in this pandemic in that he is not only not recommending masks, but he is way looser with all of the other typical requirements. He is not a typical example. Outside of Scandinavia and China (and Ireland?), most of the planet has some kind of mandatory mask rules. The science may be inconclusive at this point, but they're still correctly erring on the side of caution in their advice.

You question me on what experts said masks don't work.

I provided you with one and then you tried to move the goalposts. I also provided you with another one.

It's clear as day that experts are divided on this, which you disputed so maybe in light of factual evidence of experts publicly voicing this opinion, you should accept that there are two differing fields of thoughts between experts.

Experts will divide on most things given there will always be an outlier somewhere. However if 90% of the experts claim one thing and only 10% the other. I would tend to take my chances with the 90%.

Also just on an aside, Professor Van-Tam has changed his viewpoint on masks. This is from 2 days ago. 

Professor Jonathan Van-Tam said the best way to keep transmission low and stop the NHS being overwhelmed was for people with symptoms to self-isolate and get a test, and for people to wash their hands, wear face coverings and maintain social distancing.

He also said that the country now has much better testing capabilities, knows more about the disease, and has better treatments than during the first wave.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-england-has-reached-a-tipping-point-similar-to-first-wave-deputy-chief-medical-officer-says-12101356

I don't have any opinion either way on masks.

I wear them as they are only a minor inconvenience and if they help in any way it's not a problem but it's a classic example of how little clarity science has been able to provide thus far.

You seem to think that if science doesn't have all the answers it is letting us down. And that if the evidence isn't yet there then that is science's fault. And that if people change their mind in response to new or emerging evidence that their flip flopping.

So make a decision on masks, explain it, stick to it even if the evidence changes. That seems to be you attitude so live by it

What I am saying is some people seem to be under the illusion that life stops until science sorts the virus and eradicates it.

That is not happening in the short-medium term, there is no signs of science cracking it any time soon. Life has to go, we have to learn to live with the virus. The second wave is going to be telling but the WHO have criticised governments for using lockdowns to manage the virus.

I think in Feb of next year we will have a much better idea of how serious Covid really is from the data available, we can see fatality rates falling hugely across Europe during the second wave, if that trend continues then we can live with the virus until such time as science finally does get an answer and there is a very good chance science won't get that answer before the virus stops being an issue.

There are plenty of cases of previous viruses burning out before science was able to get the answer to them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:37:31 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on October 14, 2020, 08:18:09 AM
My view is that it's the schools which are the major factor in spreading COVID, not the hospitality trade.  It's no coincidence schools returned a month ago and here we are now.  What were they expecting, numbers to fall after the schools went back.

What is the evidence for spread in schools?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:38:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 08:32:52 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on October 14, 2020, 08:18:09 AM
My view is that it's the schools which are the major factor in spreading COVID, not the hospitality trade.  It's no coincidence schools returned a month ago and here we are now.  What were they expecting, numbers to fall after the schools went back.

The experts has been flip flopping since day 1 about whether children are spreaders or not.

Which experts are flip flopping?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 09:39:57 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:35:09 AM


In terms of treatments, vaccines and understanding it is critically important that science keeps trying. Blockheads will try to get in the way but we just have to expose their idiocy

On the economic issues how many jobs will be lost if we don't get COVID sorted? What are the prospects for the global or domestic economy if we can't control, significantly treat, cure or vaccinate against Covid?

That's all speculative, neither of us have the answer but do you think it is good for the human race to hide under the bed waiting for science to solve it?

The data on the consequences of the second wave surge in Europe should be the decisive factor on which avenue we take. If the current trends continue then it looks more and more likely we can live with the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 09:41:29 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:38:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 08:32:52 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on October 14, 2020, 08:18:09 AM
My view is that it's the schools which are the major factor in spreading COVID, not the hospitality trade.  It's no coincidence schools returned a month ago and here we are now.  What were they expecting, numbers to fall after the schools went back.

The experts has been flip flopping since day 1 about whether children are spreaders or not.

Which experts are flip flopping?

What sort of nonsense is this question.

Science are puzzled by it. They don't have a firm grasp on any bit of the virus.

Read this.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53946420
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:44:49 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:04:33 AM
The best one of the lot for me is the no selling beer after 8pm in shops. Literally pointless. Almost like one can't go and buy it for the 8 hours prior.

Apparently not. One of the earlier Welsh regional restrictions was in part based upon evidence established via test, track and trace. They were able to identify links to clusters from people coming out of pubs and going on to other pubs or back to houses via the off licence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:48:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:22:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2020, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
Other half is positive, she's 27, no underlying conditions, doesnt smoke etc.
Symptoms started Monday morning, day 3 now and shes not fit to get out of bed.
This is something you want to avoid if you can help it.

That is how it was for me. The tiredness did improve daily, first 5 days I had to go back to bed around lunchtime each day and it would just come on very suddenly. Hopefully she is ok and if it follows my pattern it does improve significantly after 7 days

Have you had a flu (a proper one rather than your standard, head cold/chest infection) before and how do the symptoms compare?

I have had a proper flu before, she hasn't. From what I remember I couldn't eat with the flu, whereas she is eating although but alot.
Its similar I would say,  but then I know of a late 40s case with no underlying conditions who is in ICU, so it's hard to predict.

There's a lot of people who will get tetchy about comparing it to a flu but I don't think they realise that a flu can have fatal consequences even to fit and healthy people, Christopher Colhoun being a prime recent example of how it can impact a fit and healthy young man.

I don't think there is any adult or adolescent who does not know that the flu can be fatal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 09:49:02 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:48:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:22:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2020, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
Other half is positive, she's 27, no underlying conditions, doesnt smoke etc.
Symptoms started Monday morning, day 3 now and shes not fit to get out of bed.
This is something you want to avoid if you can help it.

That is how it was for me. The tiredness did improve daily, first 5 days I had to go back to bed around lunchtime each day and it would just come on very suddenly. Hopefully she is ok and if it follows my pattern it does improve significantly after 7 days

Have you had a flu (a proper one rather than your standard, head cold/chest infection) before and how do the symptoms compare?

I have had a proper flu before, she hasn't. From what I remember I couldn't eat with the flu, whereas she is eating although but alot.
Its similar I would say,  but then I know of a late 40s case with no underlying conditions who is in ICU, so it's hard to predict.

There's a lot of people who will get tetchy about comparing it to a flu but I don't think they realise that a flu can have fatal consequences even to fit and healthy people, Christopher Colhoun being a prime recent example of how it can impact a fit and healthy young man.

I don't think there is any adult or adolescent who does not know that the flu can be fatal.

I know plenty of people who reckon they have a flu 3 or 4 times a year and are in work many times with it.

I think you are being disingenuous.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 09:52:52 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:44:49 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:04:33 AM
The best one of the lot for me is the no selling beer after 8pm in shops. Literally pointless. Almost like one can't go and buy it for the 8 hours prior.

Apparently not. One of the earlier Welsh regional restrictions was in part based upon evidence established via test, track and trace. They were able to identify links to clusters from people coming out of pubs and going on to other pubs or back to houses via the off licence.

The reason why a lot of clusters are linked to pubs is because they are using track and trace, they are following guidelines set down and are following up on the procedures..

Shops are still open and no track and trace systems seem to be in place, kids will be off for 2 weeks and that means they'll head to the shops! as they don't have to adhere to staying local (2 mile radius)

Punishing the pubs, who have worked very hard to make things safer is wrong
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:54:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:00:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 06:41:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 06:29:44 PM
But there is absolutely nothing to say whatsoever that the consequences of contracting the flu is worse than covid and it won't be known for years so to have a few blowhards on the internet coming out and making such proclamations is absolutely absurd.

Which of the studies in the chart I posted above do you take issue with and what is wrong with their methodology, exactly?

I would say the fact that Covid is a novel virus that little is still known about and it impossible to make definitive conclusions on this. Look at the falling mortality rates that are being returned across Europe, it is defying any sort of logic to be making these types of conclusions at this juncture.

Time will tell us about Covid, we just don't know enough at the minute and it's idiotic to say otherwise.

Have you reviewed those studies yourself?

Quite incredible. Angelo cries time is of the evidence and science needs to get its collective finger out.

When confronted with scientific research he decries it as can't be right as it's too early to say.

Poisonous ignorance
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 15, 2020, 09:57:48 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 09:52:52 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:44:49 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:04:33 AM
The best one of the lot for me is the no selling beer after 8pm in shops. Literally pointless. Almost like one can't go and buy it for the 8 hours prior.

Apparently not. One of the earlier Welsh regional restrictions was in part based upon evidence established via test, track and trace. They were able to identify links to clusters from people coming out of pubs and going on to other pubs or back to houses via the off licence.

The reason why a lot of clusters are linked to pubs is because they are using track and trace, they are following guidelines set down and are following up on the procedures..

Shops are still open and no track and trace systems seem to be in place, kids will be off for 2 weeks and that means they'll head to the shops! as they don't have to adhere to staying local (2 mile radius)

Punishing the pubs, who have worked very hard to make things safer is wrong

When you say track and trace, are you saying all pubs take details of everyone who enters?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:01:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:10:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 14, 2020, 06:41:28 PM
Is The flu is harder to catch than this virus?

Does it spread quicker?

I've had the flu once (I was 19) floored me for a few days, aching couldn't lift head off my pillow. Was bad, never had it since and I've been in big groups through the years, working as a teacher for many years and being out socially a lot!  I never got it again thankfully. So was I just lucky?

At present, probably. I don't know.

Some people here clearly think a flu is a headcold or general chest infection. I had the Aussie flu a couple of years back and it was the worst dose of anything I've ever had, floored me for a good week and I'd say it was three or four months before I was fully back to myself in terms of energy etc. Covid will impact people in different ways though, like the flu does.

We live with the flu though, if someone with underlying health conditions or old or in general poor health then it can have extreme consequences. There are a lot of parallels between it and the flu by the effects and the impacts, it's impossible to say if Covid is worse or not at this point. It's a novel virus so with time, you'd expect that we will be better equipped to treat it, deal with it and prevent it.

We'll have a better idea on the severity of Covid in the next few months.

Which people
On here think the flu is a head cold? Name one?

We vaccinate against flu. We don't treat contagious diseases with a vaccine the same as one that we are working on a vaccine. I'm sure you get the logic of that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 10:03:33 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 15, 2020, 09:57:48 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 09:52:52 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:44:49 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:04:33 AM
The best one of the lot for me is the no selling beer after 8pm in shops. Literally pointless. Almost like one can't go and buy it for the 8 hours prior.

Apparently not. One of the earlier Welsh regional restrictions was in part based upon evidence established via test, track and trace. They were able to identify links to clusters from people coming out of pubs and going on to other pubs or back to houses via the off licence.

The reason why a lot of clusters are linked to pubs is because they are using track and trace, they are following guidelines set down and are following up on the procedures..

Shops are still open and no track and trace systems seem to be in place, kids will be off for 2 weeks and that means they'll head to the shops! as they don't have to adhere to staying local (2 mile radius)

Punishing the pubs, who have worked very hard to make things safer is wrong

When you say track and trace, are you saying all pubs take details of everyone who enters?

My local would test your temp, and take details at the the door, booking for food and they have your details already. I thought this was happening ? No?

There was a guy on Nolan last night, bar owner who was doing the same also, be very lazy and inconsiderate if the bars were not doing that.. look its not 100% best method but people would need to be very honest with themselves and react to the problem if they were contacted!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:04:49 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:54:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:00:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 06:41:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 06:29:44 PM
But there is absolutely nothing to say whatsoever that the consequences of contracting the flu is worse than covid and it won't be known for years so to have a few blowhards on the internet coming out and making such proclamations is absolutely absurd.

Which of the studies in the chart I posted above do you take issue with and what is wrong with their methodology, exactly?

I would say the fact that Covid is a novel virus that little is still known about and it impossible to make definitive conclusions on this. Look at the falling mortality rates that are being returned across Europe, it is defying any sort of logic to be making these types of conclusions at this juncture.

Time will tell us about Covid, we just don't know enough at the minute and it's idiotic to say otherwise.

Have you reviewed those studies yourself?

Quite incredible. Angelo cries time is of the evidence and science needs to get its collective finger out.

When confronted with scientific research he decries it as can't be right as it's too early to say.

Poisonous ignorance

Not at all.

I think it's insanity to be waiting years for science to figure out something that basic questions are causing them severe confusion.

Science's track record on solving infectious diseases is not good so people advocating us hiding under our beds until such time as science finds the solution should be put away in straight jackets.

The most important thing now is what the data says over the next few months about fatality levels, if the trends continues of fatality levels dropping hugely then it's something we can live with. We live with flu, something science has never been able to eradicate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:08:35 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:01:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:10:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 14, 2020, 06:41:28 PM
Is The flu is harder to catch than this virus?

Does it spread quicker?

I've had the flu once (I was 19) floored me for a few days, aching couldn't lift head off my pillow. Was bad, never had it since and I've been in big groups through the years, working as a teacher for many years and being out socially a lot!  I never got it again thankfully. So was I just lucky?

At present, probably. I don't know.

Some people here clearly think a flu is a headcold or general chest infection. I had the Aussie flu a couple of years back and it was the worst dose of anything I've ever had, floored me for a good week and I'd say it was three or four months before I was fully back to myself in terms of energy etc. Covid will impact people in different ways though, like the flu does.

We live with the flu though, if someone with underlying health conditions or old or in general poor health then it can have extreme consequences. There are a lot of parallels between it and the flu by the effects and the impacts, it's impossible to say if Covid is worse or not at this point. It's a novel virus so with time, you'd expect that we will be better equipped to treat it, deal with it and prevent it.

We'll have a better idea on the severity of Covid in the next few months.

Which people
On here think the flu is a head cold? Name one?

We vaccinate against flu. We don't treat contagious diseases with a vaccine the same as one that we are working on a vaccine. I'm sure you get the logic of that

You keep asking nonsense questions like which people which leads to me think you are not capable of anything close to an intelligent debate. Why don't you conduct an audit.

Here's an article for your world of ignorance and naivety.

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/parents-dont-take-flu-seriously

The flu kills every year, vaccination or no vaccination. What is the acceptable level of risk? Why don't we go into lockdown every winter over the consequences of seasonal flu? Maybe you are now saying we should? At what cost does the world become consumed by Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:13:30 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 08:11:08 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 08:03:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:56:59 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 07:46:40 PM
Does the flu cripple the health service in the same way as Covid?

That's not the same as "Do people die from it?" Yes, they do but are they coming into hospitals in the same numbers meaning that beds and treatment aren't available to anyone else?

Statistically hospital beds come under increasing pressure every winter from the flu.

Clearly there is an acceptable level of death with the seasonal flu or everything would shut down, so I'm asking you what you deem an acceptable level of death with Covid? Or are we meant to sit on our hands until science solves it, which could be years, which could be never.
I don't think there is one. People with flu & Covid will be treated and the health service will try to save their lives. Unfortunately people will still die of both.
There is an attempt, via lockdown etc to lower Covid numbers in order to stop the hospitals from being overwhelmed.
The flu doesn't overwhelm the hospitals in the same way therefore a lockdown is not seen to be required for it.

Maybe not in the same way but the flu does overwhelm hospitals at Winter and the health service does become strained and deaths do occur due to this and this is deemed an acceptable level.

So back to my question, what is an acceptable level of death. Lockdown has huge negative drawbacks to people's livelihoods, the economy and wider social and mental health problems so at what point do we say this lockdown and restrictions are counter-productive on a societal wide basis? That's a very important discussion those in power need to be discussing now.

We have been told again and again by scientists and the WHO that there is no silver bullet for Covid, it's going to be here for the medium to long terms so we simply have to learn to live with it. Some countries are making a much better fist of it that others.

Cases on the rise are going to be an inevitability.

There seems to be conflicting problems on both sides of the border - here it is the economic repercussions of quelling the spread, down south it's their dysfunctional health service being unable to cope. I think we probably have 4x the level of Covid transmissions up here at the minute that they have down south.

It would be true to say that at points during the winter the health system is overwhelmed. It's is also true to say that the flu is a factor and some years a massive problem. It depends on the strain, the efficacy of the latest vaccination and even how early in the winter the flu arrives.

But there are wider factors at play over the winter due to the cold (the temperature, not the illness).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:16:10 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:13:30 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 08:11:08 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 08:03:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:56:59 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 07:46:40 PM
Does the flu cripple the health service in the same way as Covid?

That's not the same as "Do people die from it?" Yes, they do but are they coming into hospitals in the same numbers meaning that beds and treatment aren't available to anyone else?

Statistically hospital beds come under increasing pressure every winter from the flu.

Clearly there is an acceptable level of death with the seasonal flu or everything would shut down, so I'm asking you what you deem an acceptable level of death with Covid? Or are we meant to sit on our hands until science solves it, which could be years, which could be never.
I don't think there is one. People with flu & Covid will be treated and the health service will try to save their lives. Unfortunately people will still die of both.
There is an attempt, via lockdown etc to lower Covid numbers in order to stop the hospitals from being overwhelmed.
The flu doesn't overwhelm the hospitals in the same way therefore a lockdown is not seen to be required for it.

Maybe not in the same way but the flu does overwhelm hospitals at Winter and the health service does become strained and deaths do occur due to this and this is deemed an acceptable level.

So back to my question, what is an acceptable level of death. Lockdown has huge negative drawbacks to people's livelihoods, the economy and wider social and mental health problems so at what point do we say this lockdown and restrictions are counter-productive on a societal wide basis? That's a very important discussion those in power need to be discussing now.

We have been told again and again by scientists and the WHO that there is no silver bullet for Covid, it's going to be here for the medium to long terms so we simply have to learn to live with it. Some countries are making a much better fist of it that others.

Cases on the rise are going to be an inevitability.

There seems to be conflicting problems on both sides of the border - here it is the economic repercussions of quelling the spread, down south it's their dysfunctional health service being unable to cope. I think we probably have 4x the level of Covid transmissions up here at the minute that they have down south.

It would be true to say that at points during the winter the health system is overwhelmed. It's is also true to say that the flu is a factor and some years a massive problem. It depends on the strain, the efficacy of the latest vaccination and even how early in the winter the flu arrives.

But there are wider factors at play over the winter due to the cold (the temperature, not the illness).

But we accept whatever threats and levels of risk seasonal flu brings with it.

At what level do we accept Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 15, 2020, 10:16:47 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 09:52:52 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:44:49 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:04:33 AM
The best one of the lot for me is the no selling beer after 8pm in shops. Literally pointless. Almost like one can't go and buy it for the 8 hours prior.

Apparently not. One of the earlier Welsh regional restrictions was in part based upon evidence established via test, track and trace. They were able to identify links to clusters from people coming out of pubs and going on to other pubs or back to houses via the off licence.

The reason why a lot of clusters are linked to pubs is because they are using track and trace, they are following guidelines set down and are following up on the procedures..

Shops are still open and no track and trace systems seem to be in place, kids will be off for 2 weeks and that means they'll head to the shops! as they don't have to adhere to staying local (2 mile radius)

Punishing the pubs, who have worked very hard to make things safer is wrong

Hard to argue with MTR2 here. It looks like they are happy to go after the easy targets. Hairdressers, Beauticians and Bars completely scapegoated and lots will be ruined for good.

If someone leaves a bar and goes to a house party - that is not the Bars fault, nor is it the beautician who might have dolled them up for their night out (I'm assuming none of you good gents don't go to that bother)

Now it might stop those who aren't prepared for an impromptu few beers on a Saturday evening when they are out of luck but it will not address the core issue of people meeting and drinking in houses that are planned and that is, their night out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on October 15, 2020, 10:23:29 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:44:49 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:04:33 AM
The best one of the lot for me is the no selling beer after 8pm in shops. Literally pointless. Almost like one can't go and buy it for the 8 hours prior.

Apparently not. One of the earlier Welsh regional restrictions was in part based upon evidence established via test, track and trace. They were able to identify links to clusters from people coming out of pubs and going on to other pubs or back to houses via the off licence.

Ballbags are going to be ballbags even if the offy shuts at 8pm.

From my experience some pubs have made a genuine effort but others haven't and have ruined it for the rest.

There's shortsighted ballbag business owners as well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:25:51 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 09:32:04 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:25:06 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 03:40:25 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 03:29:00 PM

Well can you accept that absolutely nobody has claimed that NI mortality rate will be as high in 5-6 weeks as they have been at earlier stages?

I cannot accept that absolutely nobody has claimed that as there are loads of doom merchants out there who do think we are all going to die from it.

As I have said countless times before, the next 5/6 weeks will be telling. The virus is so widespread now up north that we are going to be able to quantify to some regard of how much of a danger it is when that time has passed.

Well you can at least accept that you cannot point to anyone who has claimed that the NI death rate in 5-6 weeks will be as high as it was at earlier stages?

Why are we going into massive lockdown then? It's projected by fear, I can understand that fear, I can understand that fear is the rationale behind more lockdown and restrictive measures but if the data bears out that the sort of consequences are nowhere near the fatality levels of the first wave then I think it will influence how we move forward.

We live with flu every year and it overwhelms the health system, it kills people, some are young, fit and healthy. That seems to be an acceptable risk - at which point does Covid become an acceptable risk. Is 1,000 deaths a year over 300k cases an acceptable risk for argument sake?

Respectfully I would ask you to answer the question.

You keep repeating your allusion that people ("doom merchants") have claimed that the death rate in NI will be as high in 5-6 weeks as it was earlier. So respectfully I ask you confirm that you have evidence of these claims and post it or acknowledge that you made it up and kept repeating it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:31:22 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 09:37:08 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:30:20 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 04:16:05 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 13, 2020, 04:12:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 02:19:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:52:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:31:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

You asked me for an expert who said masks don't work. There;s an expert who said it.

Here's another one.

https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/

So rather than trying to move the goalposts now, why don't you just accept that is significant difference of opinion from the "experts" on whether face masks actually work or not.

What are you on about, "moving the goalposts"?

First, most governments and public health agencies were reluctant to mandate masks for the public back in March and April because of the huge shortages at the time. Its perfectly valid to ask if the guy you posted from England still believes now what he was advocating for in April, especially given the trends in the disease and the increased availability of PPE.

Second, in that link Tegnell specifically refers to the plummeting cases in Sweden at the time (July), and Sweden was trying for herd immunity anyway. Tegnell has plenty of critics within Sweden, where cases have been far higher than its neighbours.

There's always going to be a few who go against the consensus, but you seem to be implying that the public health professionals and scientists are hopelessly confused and there are equal numbers advocating for and against mask wearing. That is not the case.

The absolute effectiveness can only be established through study and experimentation. In the meantime, the responsible thing to do is to err on the side of caution, use what we do know about airborne transmission and masks, and recommend/require their use, along with social distancing and the rest.

It's quite clear, you asked for an expert who disputed masks - I gave you one. You then moved the goalposts to say he changed his mind.

It's perfectly valid in your mind but that's also a subjective view that supports your argument and is not based on anything more than that.

There are plenty of experts who argue that masks are ineffective. The bottom line is that it's a minor inconvenience for most people to wear them so on the small chance they do slow it down experts recommend them but that doesn't mean they are an effective weapon against the virus as the experts are at odds on this - contrary to your wrongly asserted view as I have shown.

1. I did NOT say the English dude changed his mind. I questioned if he had (which you've quoted), given that the link you posted was from April 3. We're discussing this in October. A lot has happened since then. We now have six additional months of knowledge of how the disease works and how to combat and manage it. It would be unprofessional for any scientist or public health professional not to take what happened in that time into account.

2. You haven't shown any wrongly asserted view on my part. You seem to be saying that there are a significant number of experts who advocate against masks, but you haven't shown anything to support that. Tegnell is a very noted exception in this pandemic in that he is not only not recommending masks, but he is way looser with all of the other typical requirements. He is not a typical example. Outside of Scandinavia and China (and Ireland?), most of the planet has some kind of mandatory mask rules. The science may be inconclusive at this point, but they're still correctly erring on the side of caution in their advice.

You question me on what experts said masks don't work.

I provided you with one and then you tried to move the goalposts. I also provided you with another one.

It's clear as day that experts are divided on this, which you disputed so maybe in light of factual evidence of experts publicly voicing this opinion, you should accept that there are two differing fields of thoughts between experts.

Experts will divide on most things given there will always be an outlier somewhere. However if 90% of the experts claim one thing and only 10% the other. I would tend to take my chances with the 90%.

Also just on an aside, Professor Van-Tam has changed his viewpoint on masks. This is from 2 days ago. 

Professor Jonathan Van-Tam said the best way to keep transmission low and stop the NHS being overwhelmed was for people with symptoms to self-isolate and get a test, and for people to wash their hands, wear face coverings and maintain social distancing.

He also said that the country now has much better testing capabilities, knows more about the disease, and has better treatments than during the first wave.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-england-has-reached-a-tipping-point-similar-to-first-wave-deputy-chief-medical-officer-says-12101356

I don't have any opinion either way on masks.

I wear them as they are only a minor inconvenience and if they help in any way it's not a problem but it's a classic example of how little clarity science has been able to provide thus far.

You seem to think that if science doesn't have all the answers it is letting us down. And that if the evidence isn't yet there then that is science's fault. And that if people change their mind in response to new or emerging evidence that their flip flopping.

So make a decision on masks, explain it, stick to it even if the evidence changes. That seems to be you attitude so live by it

What I am saying is some people seem to be under the illusion that life stops until science sorts the virus and eradicates it.

That is not happening in the short-medium term, there is no signs of science cracking it any time soon. Life has to go, we have to learn to live with the virus. The second wave is going to be telling but the WHO have criticised governments for using lockdowns to manage the virus.

I think in Feb of next year we will have a much better idea of how serious Covid really is from the data available, we can see fatality rates falling hugely across Europe during the second wave, if that trend continues then we can live with the virus until such time as science finally does get an answer and there is a very good chance science won't get that answer before the virus stops being an issue.

There are plenty of cases of previous viruses burning out before science was able to get the answer to them.

Hmmm. On viruses burning out post the plenty of evidence (be careful about Spanish Flu)

Also Life is not stopping.

More can be done to address quality of life during a period of restrictions so get angry about that.
More can be done to act on scientific advice and manage the situation. Things can and must be better coordinated. Get angry about that if must get angry.

But I guess you just want to be angry at scientists and will keep going at that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:33:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 09:39:57 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:35:09 AM


In terms of treatments, vaccines and understanding it is critically important that science keeps trying. Blockheads will try to get in the way but we just have to expose their idiocy

On the economic issues how many jobs will be lost if we don't get COVID sorted? What are the prospects for the global or domestic economy if we can't control, significantly treat, cure or vaccinate against Covid?

That's all speculative, neither of us have the answer but do you think it is good for the human race to hide under the bed waiting for science to solve it?

The data on the consequences of the second wave surge in Europe should be the decisive factor on which avenue we take. If the current trends continue then it looks more and more likely we can live with the virus.

To describe the search for treatment, vaccines and a better understanding of the virus as speculative probably gives away your degree of understanding of science and indeed English.

But please don't let me deter you from answering the economic questions I posed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:35:15 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 09:49:02 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:48:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:22:49 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2020, 02:14:32 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 14, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
Other half is positive, she's 27, no underlying conditions, doesnt smoke etc.
Symptoms started Monday morning, day 3 now and shes not fit to get out of bed.
This is something you want to avoid if you can help it.

That is how it was for me. The tiredness did improve daily, first 5 days I had to go back to bed around lunchtime each day and it would just come on very suddenly. Hopefully she is ok and if it follows my pattern it does improve significantly after 7 days

Have you had a flu (a proper one rather than your standard, head cold/chest infection) before and how do the symptoms compare?

I have had a proper flu before, she hasn't. From what I remember I couldn't eat with the flu, whereas she is eating although but alot.
Its similar I would say,  but then I know of a late 40s case with no underlying conditions who is in ICU, so it's hard to predict.

There's a lot of people who will get tetchy about comparing it to a flu but I don't think they realise that a flu can have fatal consequences even to fit and healthy people, Christopher Colhoun being a prime recent example of how it can impact a fit and healthy young man.

I don't think there is any adult or adolescent who does not know that the flu can be fatal.

I know plenty of people who reckon they have a flu 3 or 4 times a year and are in work many times with it.

I think you are being disingenuous.

If only they had a friend with the merest understanding of science.

An awful pity
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:36:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 09:52:52 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:44:49 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:04:33 AM
The best one of the lot for me is the no selling beer after 8pm in shops. Literally pointless. Almost like one can't go and buy it for the 8 hours prior.

Apparently not. One of the earlier Welsh regional restrictions was in part based upon evidence established via test, track and trace. They were able to identify links to clusters from people coming out of pubs and going on to other pubs or back to houses via the off licence.

The reason why a lot of clusters are linked to pubs is because they are using track and trace, they are following guidelines set down and are following up on the procedures..

Shops are still open and no track and trace systems seem to be in place, kids will be off for 2 weeks and that means they'll head to the shops! as they don't have to adhere to staying local (2 mile radius)

Punishing the pubs, who have worked very hard to make things safer is wrong

This is the trace track and trace based on mobile phone data. Not names/addresses given at the door
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:36:50 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:25:51 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 09:32:04 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:25:06 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 03:40:25 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 03:29:00 PM

Well can you accept that absolutely nobody has claimed that NI mortality rate will be as high in 5-6 weeks as they have been at earlier stages?

I cannot accept that absolutely nobody has claimed that as there are loads of doom merchants out there who do think we are all going to die from it.

As I have said countless times before, the next 5/6 weeks will be telling. The virus is so widespread now up north that we are going to be able to quantify to some regard of how much of a danger it is when that time has passed.

Well you can at least accept that you cannot point to anyone who has claimed that the NI death rate in 5-6 weeks will be as high as it was at earlier stages?

Why are we going into massive lockdown then? It's projected by fear, I can understand that fear, I can understand that fear is the rationale behind more lockdown and restrictive measures but if the data bears out that the sort of consequences are nowhere near the fatality levels of the first wave then I think it will influence how we move forward.

We live with flu every year and it overwhelms the health system, it kills people, some are young, fit and healthy. That seems to be an acceptable risk - at which point does Covid become an acceptable risk. Is 1,000 deaths a year over 300k cases an acceptable risk for argument sake?

Respectfully I would ask you to answer the question.

You keep repeating your allusion that people ("doom merchants") have claimed that the death rate in NI will be as high in 5-6 weeks as it was earlier. So respectfully I ask you confirm that you have evidence of these claims and post it or acknowledge that you made it up and kept repeating it?

Well why are people making completely unfounded assertions regarding the severity of Covid when its a novel virus that science is still trying to figure out?

We have to wait and see on that regard but data is telling us that the fatality levels are dropping immensely in certain European countries with regard to the second wave.

Belgium being a good example.

506 deaths so far from 165,880 cases from 1st August to present, a 0.3% fatality rate. If that data would further be explained by 40% of those victims have underlying health conditions with a life expectancy of under 1 year, 30% of those victims having a life expectancy of under 2 years and 20% of those victims having a life expectancy of 5 years with the remaining 10% being people with no underlying health conditions - does that then make it an acceptable risk?

At what time is Covid deemed an acceptable risk, much like season flu is? How do we qualify that or do we just continue to hide under the bed until science finds the answer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:41:09 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:31:22 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 09:37:08 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:30:20 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 04:16:05 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 13, 2020, 04:12:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 02:19:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:52:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:31:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

You asked me for an expert who said masks don't work. There;s an expert who said it.

Here's another one.

https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/

So rather than trying to move the goalposts now, why don't you just accept that is significant difference of opinion from the "experts" on whether face masks actually work or not.

What are you on about, "moving the goalposts"?

First, most governments and public health agencies were reluctant to mandate masks for the public back in March and April because of the huge shortages at the time. Its perfectly valid to ask if the guy you posted from England still believes now what he was advocating for in April, especially given the trends in the disease and the increased availability of PPE.

Second, in that link Tegnell specifically refers to the plummeting cases in Sweden at the time (July), and Sweden was trying for herd immunity anyway. Tegnell has plenty of critics within Sweden, where cases have been far higher than its neighbours.

There's always going to be a few who go against the consensus, but you seem to be implying that the public health professionals and scientists are hopelessly confused and there are equal numbers advocating for and against mask wearing. That is not the case.

The absolute effectiveness can only be established through study and experimentation. In the meantime, the responsible thing to do is to err on the side of caution, use what we do know about airborne transmission and masks, and recommend/require their use, along with social distancing and the rest.

It's quite clear, you asked for an expert who disputed masks - I gave you one. You then moved the goalposts to say he changed his mind.

It's perfectly valid in your mind but that's also a subjective view that supports your argument and is not based on anything more than that.

There are plenty of experts who argue that masks are ineffective. The bottom line is that it's a minor inconvenience for most people to wear them so on the small chance they do slow it down experts recommend them but that doesn't mean they are an effective weapon against the virus as the experts are at odds on this - contrary to your wrongly asserted view as I have shown.

1. I did NOT say the English dude changed his mind. I questioned if he had (which you've quoted), given that the link you posted was from April 3. We're discussing this in October. A lot has happened since then. We now have six additional months of knowledge of how the disease works and how to combat and manage it. It would be unprofessional for any scientist or public health professional not to take what happened in that time into account.

2. You haven't shown any wrongly asserted view on my part. You seem to be saying that there are a significant number of experts who advocate against masks, but you haven't shown anything to support that. Tegnell is a very noted exception in this pandemic in that he is not only not recommending masks, but he is way looser with all of the other typical requirements. He is not a typical example. Outside of Scandinavia and China (and Ireland?), most of the planet has some kind of mandatory mask rules. The science may be inconclusive at this point, but they're still correctly erring on the side of caution in their advice.

You question me on what experts said masks don't work.

I provided you with one and then you tried to move the goalposts. I also provided you with another one.

It's clear as day that experts are divided on this, which you disputed so maybe in light of factual evidence of experts publicly voicing this opinion, you should accept that there are two differing fields of thoughts between experts.

Experts will divide on most things given there will always be an outlier somewhere. However if 90% of the experts claim one thing and only 10% the other. I would tend to take my chances with the 90%.

Also just on an aside, Professor Van-Tam has changed his viewpoint on masks. This is from 2 days ago. 

Professor Jonathan Van-Tam said the best way to keep transmission low and stop the NHS being overwhelmed was for people with symptoms to self-isolate and get a test, and for people to wash their hands, wear face coverings and maintain social distancing.

He also said that the country now has much better testing capabilities, knows more about the disease, and has better treatments than during the first wave.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-england-has-reached-a-tipping-point-similar-to-first-wave-deputy-chief-medical-officer-says-12101356

I don't have any opinion either way on masks.

I wear them as they are only a minor inconvenience and if they help in any way it's not a problem but it's a classic example of how little clarity science has been able to provide thus far.

You seem to think that if science doesn't have all the answers it is letting us down. And that if the evidence isn't yet there then that is science's fault. And that if people change their mind in response to new or emerging evidence that their flip flopping.

So make a decision on masks, explain it, stick to it even if the evidence changes. That seems to be you attitude so live by it

What I am saying is some people seem to be under the illusion that life stops until science sorts the virus and eradicates it.

That is not happening in the short-medium term, there is no signs of science cracking it any time soon. Life has to go, we have to learn to live with the virus. The second wave is going to be telling but the WHO have criticised governments for using lockdowns to manage the virus.

I think in Feb of next year we will have a much better idea of how serious Covid really is from the data available, we can see fatality rates falling hugely across Europe during the second wave, if that trend continues then we can live with the virus until such time as science finally does get an answer and there is a very good chance science won't get that answer before the virus stops being an issue.

There are plenty of cases of previous viruses burning out before science was able to get the answer to them.

Hmmm. On viruses burning out post the plenty of evidence (be careful about Spanish Flu)

Also Life is not stopping.

More can be done to address quality of life during a period of restrictions so get angry about that.
More can be done to act on scientific advice and manage the situation. Things can and must be better coordinated. Get angry about that if must get angry.

But I guess you just want to be angry at scientists and will keep going at that

See the problem on acting on scientific advice is that science has been contradicting itself and backtracking since the start. Open schools to close schools again, is it airborne or not, should we wear masks or not.

I'm not angry at science, but I'm not naive enough to want society to shut down until such time as science solves this. The signs from science is that the virus has it befuddled and any progress made with trying to eradicate in the 10 months to date has been extremely limited. So what do we do? Learn to live with it much like we do with seasonal flu or continue on lockdowns and restrictive measures that have huge economic and societal repercussions?

Science isn't the problem, relying solely on science as the solution is the problem as it doesn't seem equipped to give us an answer in a pressing timeframe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:45:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:04:49 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:54:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:00:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 06:41:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 06:29:44 PM
But there is absolutely nothing to say whatsoever that the consequences of contracting the flu is worse than covid and it won't be known for years so to have a few blowhards on the internet coming out and making such proclamations is absolutely absurd.

Which of the studies in the chart I posted above do you take issue with and what is wrong with their methodology, exactly?

I would say the fact that Covid is a novel virus that little is still known about and it impossible to make definitive conclusions on this. Look at the falling mortality rates that are being returned across Europe, it is defying any sort of logic to be making these types of conclusions at this juncture.

Time will tell us about Covid, we just don't know enough at the minute and it's idiotic to say otherwise.

Have you reviewed those studies yourself?

Quite incredible. Angelo cries time is of the evidence and science needs to get its collective finger out.

When confronted with scientific research he decries it as can't be right as it's too early to say.

Poisonous ignorance

Not at all.

I think it's insanity to be waiting years for science to figure out something that basic questions are causing them severe confusion.

Science's track record on solving infectious diseases is not good so people advocating us hiding under our beds until such time as science finds the solution should be put away in straight jackets.

The most important thing now is what the data says over the next few months about fatality levels, if the trends continues of fatality levels dropping hugely then it's something we can live with. We live with flu, something science has never been able to eradicate.

Staggering stuff.

How do you know it going to be years?
What you refuse to wait to say (randomly March 2021) because it could end up being March 2023 even though the period between now and March 2021 coincides with the northern winter?

Show me the balanced evidence of science's poor track record in "solving" infectious diseases?

Name the person telling you to hide under the bed at all never mind indefinitely?

You have a fixation on fatality rates and disease eradication. Flu has not been eradicated but we have had a succession of vaccines. What is you acceptable number of deaths for COVID? It's your question so presumably you will readily answer it!!! What is your stance on the non fatal health consequences of COVID?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 15, 2020, 10:48:01 AM
Reported by Rob O'Hanrahan on twitter here -

In the South (so you must assume the North isn't too much different).

522 outbreaks

352 Private Households
25 Schools
7 Resturant/Cafe
4 Pubs
3 Sporting/Fitness
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:48:20 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:08:35 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:01:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:10:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 14, 2020, 06:41:28 PM
Is The flu is harder to catch than this virus?

Does it spread quicker?

I've had the flu once (I was 19) floored me for a few days, aching couldn't lift head off my pillow. Was bad, never had it since and I've been in big groups through the years, working as a teacher for many years and being out socially a lot!  I never got it again thankfully. So was I just lucky?

At present, probably. I don't know.

Some people here clearly think a flu is a headcold or general chest infection. I had the Aussie flu a couple of years back and it was the worst dose of anything I've ever had, floored me for a good week and I'd say it was three or four months before I was fully back to myself in terms of energy etc. Covid will impact people in different ways though, like the flu does.

We live with the flu though, if someone with underlying health conditions or old or in general poor health then it can have extreme consequences. There are a lot of parallels between it and the flu by the effects and the impacts, it's impossible to say if Covid is worse or not at this point. It's a novel virus so with time, you'd expect that we will be better equipped to treat it, deal with it and prevent it.

We'll have a better idea on the severity of Covid in the next few months.

Which people
On here think the flu is a head cold? Name one?

We vaccinate against flu. We don't treat contagious diseases with a vaccine the same as one that we are working on a vaccine. I'm sure you get the logic of that

You keep asking nonsense questions like which people which leads to me think you are not capable of anything close to an intelligent debate. Why don't you conduct an audit.

Here's an article for your world of ignorance and naivety.

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/parents-dont-take-flu-seriously

The flu kills every year, vaccination or no vaccination. What is the acceptable level of risk? Why don't we go into lockdown every winter over the consequences of seasonal flu? Maybe you are now saying we should? At what cost does the world become consumed by Covid?

You confidently state "people on here ....." It's a logical question to ask you to name one. A question that you can't answer because it exposes your bogus argument
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:50:16 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:16:10 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:13:30 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 08:11:08 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 08:03:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:56:59 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 07:46:40 PM
Does the flu cripple the health service in the same way as Covid?

That's not the same as "Do people die from it?" Yes, they do but are they coming into hospitals in the same numbers meaning that beds and treatment aren't available to anyone else?

Statistically hospital beds come under increasing pressure every winter from the flu.

Clearly there is an acceptable level of death with the seasonal flu or everything would shut down, so I'm asking you what you deem an acceptable level of death with Covid? Or are we meant to sit on our hands until science solves it, which could be years, which could be never.
I don't think there is one. People with flu & Covid will be treated and the health service will try to save their lives. Unfortunately people will still die of both.
There is an attempt, via lockdown etc to lower Covid numbers in order to stop the hospitals from being overwhelmed.
The flu doesn't overwhelm the hospitals in the same way therefore a lockdown is not seen to be required for it.

Maybe not in the same way but the flu does overwhelm hospitals at Winter and the health service does become strained and deaths do occur due to this and this is deemed an acceptable level.

So back to my question, what is an acceptable level of death. Lockdown has huge negative drawbacks to people's livelihoods, the economy and wider social and mental health problems so at what point do we say this lockdown and restrictions are counter-productive on a societal wide basis? That's a very important discussion those in power need to be discussing now.

We have been told again and again by scientists and the WHO that there is no silver bullet for Covid, it's going to be here for the medium to long terms so we simply have to learn to live with it. Some countries are making a much better fist of it that others.

Cases on the rise are going to be an inevitability.

There seems to be conflicting problems on both sides of the border - here it is the economic repercussions of quelling the spread, down south it's their dysfunctional health service being unable to cope. I think we probably have 4x the level of Covid transmissions up here at the minute that they have down south.

It would be true to say that at points during the winter the health system is overwhelmed. It's is also true to say that the flu is a factor and some years a massive problem. It depends on the strain, the efficacy of the latest vaccination and even how early in the winter the flu arrives.

But there are wider factors at play over the winter due to the cold (the temperature, not the illness).

But we accept whatever threats and levels of risk seasonal flu brings with it.

At what level do we accept Covid?

We don't just accept the flu. We pour billions into vaccinations and trying to treat.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:55:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:36:50 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:25:51 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 09:32:04 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:25:06 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 03:40:25 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 13, 2020, 03:29:00 PM

Well can you accept that absolutely nobody has claimed that NI mortality rate will be as high in 5-6 weeks as they have been at earlier stages?

I cannot accept that absolutely nobody has claimed that as there are loads of doom merchants out there who do think we are all going to die from it.

As I have said countless times before, the next 5/6 weeks will be telling. The virus is so widespread now up north that we are going to be able to quantify to some regard of how much of a danger it is when that time has passed.

Well you can at least accept that you cannot point to anyone who has claimed that the NI death rate in 5-6 weeks will be as high as it was at earlier stages?

Why are we going into massive lockdown then? It's projected by fear, I can understand that fear, I can understand that fear is the rationale behind more lockdown and restrictive measures but if the data bears out that the sort of consequences are nowhere near the fatality levels of the first wave then I think it will influence how we move forward.

We live with flu every year and it overwhelms the health system, it kills people, some are young, fit and healthy. That seems to be an acceptable risk - at which point does Covid become an acceptable risk. Is 1,000 deaths a year over 300k cases an acceptable risk for argument sake?

Respectfully I would ask you to answer the question.

You keep repeating your allusion that people ("doom merchants") have claimed that the death rate in NI will be as high in 5-6 weeks as it was earlier. So respectfully I ask you confirm that you have evidence of these claims and post it or acknowledge that you made it up and kept repeating it?

Well why are people making completely unfounded assertions regarding the severity of Covid when its a novel virus that science is still trying to figure out?

We have to wait and see on that regard but data is telling us that the fatality levels are dropping immensely in certain European countries with regard to the second wave.

Belgium being a good example.

506 deaths so far from 165,880 cases from 1st August to present, a 0.3% fatality rate. If that data would further be explained by 40% of those victims have underlying health conditions with a life expectancy of under 1 year, 30% of those victims having a life expectancy of under 2 years and 20% of those victims having a life expectancy of 5 years with the remaining 10% being people with no underlying health conditions - does that then make it an acceptable risk?

At what time is Covid deemed an acceptable risk, much like season flu is? How do we qualify that or do we just continue to hide under the bed until science finds the answer.

Still not answering the question are you?

You made something up and keep getting caught out and don't have the wit to stop repeating it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 10:57:29 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:36:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 09:52:52 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:44:49 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:04:33 AM
The best one of the lot for me is the no selling beer after 8pm in shops. Literally pointless. Almost like one can't go and buy it for the 8 hours prior.

Apparently not. One of the earlier Welsh regional restrictions was in part based upon evidence established via test, track and trace. They were able to identify links to clusters from people coming out of pubs and going on to other pubs or back to houses via the off licence.

The reason why a lot of clusters are linked to pubs is because they are using track and trace, they are following guidelines set down and are following up on the procedures..

Shops are still open and no track and trace systems seem to be in place, kids will be off for 2 weeks and that means they'll head to the shops! as they don't have to adhere to staying local (2 mile radius)

Punishing the pubs, who have worked very hard to make things safer is wrong

This is the trace track and trace based on mobile phone data. Not names/addresses given at the door

Id imagine its a combination of both, I've been asked and given those details at the bar of my local, and when I've booked for food I've been asked the same. Our other local has also done the same... The bar owner on Nolan last night said they were using the app
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on October 15, 2020, 11:00:25 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:48:20 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:08:35 AM

You keep asking nonsense questions like which people which leads to me think you are not capable of anything close to an intelligent debate. Why don't you conduct an audit.

Here's an article for your world of ignorance and naivety.

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/parents-dont-take-flu-seriously

The flu kills every year, vaccination or no vaccination. What is the acceptable level of risk? Why don't we go into lockdown every winter over the consequences of seasonal flu? Maybe you are now saying we should? At what cost does the world become consumed by Covid?

You confidently state "people on here ....." It's a logical question to ask you to name one. A question that you can't answer because it exposes your bogus argument

Stop using the flu as something to compare this to in terms of effects, numbers etc. It is such a lazy argument to bring the flu into it. Is is nothing like the flu once and is a nasty nasty repository disease.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-covid-19-isnt-the-flu

https://www.facebook.com/publichealthagency/videos/1720107168155944
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 11:01:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:41:09 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:31:22 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 09:37:08 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:30:20 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 04:16:05 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 13, 2020, 04:12:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 02:19:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:52:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 01:31:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:59:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 13, 2020, 12:34:22 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2020, 12:31:04 PM
What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

You asked me for an expert who said masks don't work. There;s an expert who said it.

Here's another one.

https://fortune.com/2020/07/29/no-point-in-wearing-mask-sweden-covid/

So rather than trying to move the goalposts now, why don't you just accept that is significant difference of opinion from the "experts" on whether face masks actually work or not.

What are you on about, "moving the goalposts"?

First, most governments and public health agencies were reluctant to mandate masks for the public back in March and April because of the huge shortages at the time. Its perfectly valid to ask if the guy you posted from England still believes now what he was advocating for in April, especially given the trends in the disease and the increased availability of PPE.

Second, in that link Tegnell specifically refers to the plummeting cases in Sweden at the time (July), and Sweden was trying for herd immunity anyway. Tegnell has plenty of critics within Sweden, where cases have been far higher than its neighbours.

There's always going to be a few who go against the consensus, but you seem to be implying that the public health professionals and scientists are hopelessly confused and there are equal numbers advocating for and against mask wearing. That is not the case.

The absolute effectiveness can only be established through study and experimentation. In the meantime, the responsible thing to do is to err on the side of caution, use what we do know about airborne transmission and masks, and recommend/require their use, along with social distancing and the rest.

It's quite clear, you asked for an expert who disputed masks - I gave you one. You then moved the goalposts to say he changed his mind.

It's perfectly valid in your mind but that's also a subjective view that supports your argument and is not based on anything more than that.

There are plenty of experts who argue that masks are ineffective. The bottom line is that it's a minor inconvenience for most people to wear them so on the small chance they do slow it down experts recommend them but that doesn't mean they are an effective weapon against the virus as the experts are at odds on this - contrary to your wrongly asserted view as I have shown.

1. I did NOT say the English dude changed his mind. I questioned if he had (which you've quoted), given that the link you posted was from April 3. We're discussing this in October. A lot has happened since then. We now have six additional months of knowledge of how the disease works and how to combat and manage it. It would be unprofessional for any scientist or public health professional not to take what happened in that time into account.

2. You haven't shown any wrongly asserted view on my part. You seem to be saying that there are a significant number of experts who advocate against masks, but you haven't shown anything to support that. Tegnell is a very noted exception in this pandemic in that he is not only not recommending masks, but he is way looser with all of the other typical requirements. He is not a typical example. Outside of Scandinavia and China (and Ireland?), most of the planet has some kind of mandatory mask rules. The science may be inconclusive at this point, but they're still correctly erring on the side of caution in their advice.

You question me on what experts said masks don't work.

I provided you with one and then you tried to move the goalposts. I also provided you with another one.

It's clear as day that experts are divided on this, which you disputed so maybe in light of factual evidence of experts publicly voicing this opinion, you should accept that there are two differing fields of thoughts between experts.

Experts will divide on most things given there will always be an outlier somewhere. However if 90% of the experts claim one thing and only 10% the other. I would tend to take my chances with the 90%.

Also just on an aside, Professor Van-Tam has changed his viewpoint on masks. This is from 2 days ago. 

Professor Jonathan Van-Tam said the best way to keep transmission low and stop the NHS being overwhelmed was for people with symptoms to self-isolate and get a test, and for people to wash their hands, wear face coverings and maintain social distancing.

He also said that the country now has much better testing capabilities, knows more about the disease, and has better treatments than during the first wave.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-england-has-reached-a-tipping-point-similar-to-first-wave-deputy-chief-medical-officer-says-12101356

I don't have any opinion either way on masks.

I wear them as they are only a minor inconvenience and if they help in any way it's not a problem but it's a classic example of how little clarity science has been able to provide thus far.

You seem to think that if science doesn't have all the answers it is letting us down. And that if the evidence isn't yet there then that is science's fault. And that if people change their mind in response to new or emerging evidence that their flip flopping.

So make a decision on masks, explain it, stick to it even if the evidence changes. That seems to be you attitude so live by it

What I am saying is some people seem to be under the illusion that life stops until science sorts the virus and eradicates it.

That is not happening in the short-medium term, there is no signs of science cracking it any time soon. Life has to go, we have to learn to live with the virus. The second wave is going to be telling but the WHO have criticised governments for using lockdowns to manage the virus.

I think in Feb of next year we will have a much better idea of how serious Covid really is from the data available, we can see fatality rates falling hugely across Europe during the second wave, if that trend continues then we can live with the virus until such time as science finally does get an answer and there is a very good chance science won't get that answer before the virus stops being an issue.

There are plenty of cases of previous viruses burning out before science was able to get the answer to them.

Hmmm. On viruses burning out post the plenty of evidence (be careful about Spanish Flu)

Also Life is not stopping.

More can be done to address quality of life during a period of restrictions so get angry about that.
More can be done to act on scientific advice and manage the situation. Things can and must be better coordinated. Get angry about that if must get angry.

But I guess you just want to be angry at scientists and will keep going at that

See the problem on acting on scientific advice is that science has been contradicting itself and backtracking since the start. Open schools to close schools again, is it airborne or not, should we wear masks or not.

I'm not angry at science, but I'm not naive enough to want society to shut down until such time as science solves this. The signs from science is that the virus has it befuddled and any progress made with trying to eradicate in the 10 months to date has been extremely limited. So what do we do? Learn to live with it much like we do with seasonal flu or continue on lockdowns and restrictive measures that have huge economic and societal repercussions?

Science isn't the problem, relying solely on science as the solution is the problem as it doesn't seem equipped to give us an answer in a pressing timeframe.

So of the "plenty of evidence" you mustered up precisely nothing. You make these wild assertions and abjectly fail to back it up.

When has science back tracked or contradicted itself. Point to the incidents and we can unpack them.

Point to these non scientific solutions and we will subject them to scrutiny. But you will have to spell them out first. You have danced around this long enough
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 11:03:49 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 15, 2020, 10:48:01 AM
Reported by Rob O'Hanrahan on twitter here -

In the South (so you must assume the North isn't too much different).

522 outbreaks

352 Private Households
25 Schools
7 Resturant/Cafe
4 Pubs
3 Sporting/Fitness

So the 3 lowest places are the ones being hit the hardest!! The reason is they are working their socks off to provide a safe place for their customers!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 11:03:51 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 10:57:29 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:36:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 09:52:52 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:44:49 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 14, 2020, 11:04:33 AM
The best one of the lot for me is the no selling beer after 8pm in shops. Literally pointless. Almost like one can't go and buy it for the 8 hours prior.

Apparently not. One of the earlier Welsh regional restrictions was in part based upon evidence established via test, track and trace. They were able to identify links to clusters from people coming out of pubs and going on to other pubs or back to houses via the off licence.

The reason why a lot of clusters are linked to pubs is because they are using track and trace, they are following guidelines set down and are following up on the procedures..

Shops are still open and no track and trace systems seem to be in place, kids will be off for 2 weeks and that means they'll head to the shops! as they don't have to adhere to staying local (2 mile radius)

Punishing the pubs, who have worked very hard to make things safer is wrong

This is the trace track and trace based on mobile phone data. Not names/addresses given at the door

Id imagine its a combination of both, I've been asked and given those details at the bar of my local, and when I've booked for food I've been asked the same. Our other local has also done the same... The bar owner on Nolan last night said they were using the app

The welsh one I'm referring to was mobile phone data. And just for clarity it was the basis of the 10pm closure of bars not the total closure or bars
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 11:05:11 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 15, 2020, 11:00:25 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:48:20 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:08:35 AM

You keep asking nonsense questions like which people which leads to me think you are not capable of anything close to an intelligent debate. Why don't you conduct an audit.

Here's an article for your world of ignorance and naivety.

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/parents-dont-take-flu-seriously

The flu kills every year, vaccination or no vaccination. What is the acceptable level of risk? Why don't we go into lockdown every winter over the consequences of seasonal flu? Maybe you are now saying we should? At what cost does the world become consumed by Covid?

You confidently state "people on here ....." It's a logical question to ask you to name one. A question that you can't answer because it exposes your bogus argument

Stop using the flu as something to compare this to in terms of effects, numbers etc. It is such a lazy argument to bring the flu into it. Is is nothing like the flu once and is a nasty nasty repository disease.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-covid-19-isnt-the-flu

https://www.facebook.com/publichealthagency/videos/1720107168155944

Im not the one bring the flu into it. Angelo is. I'm knocking his nonsense on the head
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on October 15, 2020, 11:22:23 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 11:05:11 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 15, 2020, 11:00:25 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:48:20 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:08:35 AM

You keep asking nonsense questions like which people which leads to me think you are not capable of anything close to an intelligent debate. Why don't you conduct an audit.

Here's an article for your world of ignorance and naivety.

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/parents-dont-take-flu-seriously

The flu kills every year, vaccination or no vaccination. What is the acceptable level of risk? Why don't we go into lockdown every winter over the consequences of seasonal flu? Maybe you are now saying we should? At what cost does the world become consumed by Covid?

You confidently state "people on here ....." It's a logical question to ask you to name one. A question that you can't answer because it exposes your bogus argument

Stop using the flu as something to compare this to in terms of effects, numbers etc. It is such a lazy argument to bring the flu into it. Is is nothing like the flu once and is a nasty nasty repository disease.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-covid-19-isnt-the-flu

https://www.facebook.com/publichealthagency/videos/1720107168155944

Im not the one bring the flu into it. Angelo is. I'm knocking his nonsense on the head

Sorry I meant to highlight the bit above in bold in my previous post and it was directed at Angelo, not yourself. Apologies for the confusion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 11:26:00 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 15, 2020, 11:22:23 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 11:05:11 AM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 15, 2020, 11:00:25 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:48:20 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:08:35 AM

You keep asking nonsense questions like which people which leads to me think you are not capable of anything close to an intelligent debate. Why don't you conduct an audit.

Here's an article for your world of ignorance and naivety.

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/parents-dont-take-flu-seriously

The flu kills every year, vaccination or no vaccination. What is the acceptable level of risk? Why don't we go into lockdown every winter over the consequences of seasonal flu? Maybe you are now saying we should? At what cost does the world become consumed by Covid?

You confidently state "people on here ....." It's a logical question to ask you to name one. A question that you can't answer because it exposes your bogus argument

Stop using the flu as something to compare this to in terms of effects, numbers etc. It is such a lazy argument to bring the flu into it. Is is nothing like the flu once and is a nasty nasty repository disease.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-covid-19-isnt-the-flu

https://www.facebook.com/publichealthagency/videos/1720107168155944

Im not the one bring the flu into it. Angelo is. I'm knocking his nonsense on the head

Sorry I meant to highlight the bit above in bold in my previous post and it was directed at Angelo, not yourself. Apologies for the confusion.

I was a bit quick to get confused though. Apology accepted and returned
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 15, 2020, 11:28:48 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 11:03:49 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 15, 2020, 10:48:01 AM
Reported by Rob O'Hanrahan on twitter here -

In the South (so you must assume the North isn't too much different).

522 outbreaks

352 Private Households
25 Schools
7 Resturant/Cafe
4 Pubs
3 Sporting/Fitness

So the 3 lowest places are the ones being hit the hardest!! The reason is they are working their socks off to provide a safe place for their customers!

Weak governments looking cheap targets. Taking the easy route out of it.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 15, 2020, 11:58:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 11:03:49 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 15, 2020, 10:48:01 AM
Reported by Rob O'Hanrahan on twitter here -

In the South (so you must assume the North isn't too much different).

522 outbreaks

352 Private Households
25 Schools
7 Resturant/Cafe
4 Pubs
3 Sporting/Fitness

So the 3 lowest places are the ones being hit the hardest!! The reason is they are working their socks off to provide a safe place for their customers!

Because these are lowest doesn't that they are not causing the problem. If two people in the same house get Covid then the association is clearly made, if one person passes Covid to someone else in a pub then a week later when these people are rested, this is classes as "Community Transmission". You would need a proper effort in contact tracing to get back to the pub and that effort hasn't happened. It is people getting it in pubs that are bringing it into houses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:10:16 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:45:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:04:49 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:54:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:00:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 06:41:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 06:29:44 PM
But there is absolutely nothing to say whatsoever that the consequences of contracting the flu is worse than covid and it won't be known for years so to have a few blowhards on the internet coming out and making such proclamations is absolutely absurd.

Which of the studies in the chart I posted above do you take issue with and what is wrong with their methodology, exactly?

I would say the fact that Covid is a novel virus that little is still known about and it impossible to make definitive conclusions on this. Look at the falling mortality rates that are being returned across Europe, it is defying any sort of logic to be making these types of conclusions at this juncture.

Time will tell us about Covid, we just don't know enough at the minute and it's idiotic to say otherwise.

Have you reviewed those studies yourself?

Quite incredible. Angelo cries time is of the evidence and science needs to get its collective finger out.

When confronted with scientific research he decries it as can't be right as it's too early to say.

Poisonous ignorance

Not at all.

I think it's insanity to be waiting years for science to figure out something that basic questions are causing them severe confusion.

Science's track record on solving infectious diseases is not good so people advocating us hiding under our beds until such time as science finds the solution should be put away in straight jackets.

The most important thing now is what the data says over the next few months about fatality levels, if the trends continues of fatality levels dropping hugely then it's something we can live with. We live with flu, something science has never been able to eradicate.

Staggering stuff.

How do you know it going to be years?
What you refuse to wait to say (randomly March 2021) because it could end up being March 2023 even though the period between now and March 2021 coincides with the northern winter?

Show me the balanced evidence of science's poor track record in "solving" infectious diseases?

Name the person telling you to hide under the bed at all never mind indefinitely?

You have a fixation on fatality rates and disease eradication. Flu has not been eradicated but we have had a succession of vaccines. What is you acceptable number of deaths for COVID? It's your question so presumably you will readily answer it!!! What is your stance on the non fatal health consequences of COVID?

Shocking naivety there. Science keep telling us that vaccines take years to create, if you believe science is going to sort this out in the next year or too you probably believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy as well.

And here you go again with name me, is that all you have to contribute? There are people who are solely advocating lockdowns and restrictions for fighting the virus, if the data trends as it has and show for the vast majority of people that this virus is pretty much similar to the flu in terms of its effect, if the data trends and the fatality rates keep falling, then lockdowns and restrictions are an overreaction. What will give us a basis for this is time and the results we will see from the second wave. If you don't have anything to add to the discussion other than stupid questions like name me people then just forget it. There are plenty of people who think the only way to deal with the virus here is to lock everything down, that's not going to work long term.

Flu has not been eradicated, I know that full well, we are unlikely to eradicate Covid either, certainly for a considerable amount of time so how do you deal with it? By living with it or by hiding under the bed? We live with flu, it causes deaths every year and it causes sever strain on the health system and other negative factors but we have acceptable risk with it. At what level do we say the same with Covid?



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:11:07 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:50:16 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:16:10 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:13:30 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 08:11:08 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 08:03:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:56:59 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 07:46:40 PM
Does the flu cripple the health service in the same way as Covid?

That's not the same as "Do people die from it?" Yes, they do but are they coming into hospitals in the same numbers meaning that beds and treatment aren't available to anyone else?

Statistically hospital beds come under increasing pressure every winter from the flu.

Clearly there is an acceptable level of death with the seasonal flu or everything would shut down, so I'm asking you what you deem an acceptable level of death with Covid? Or are we meant to sit on our hands until science solves it, which could be years, which could be never.
I don't think there is one. People with flu & Covid will be treated and the health service will try to save their lives. Unfortunately people will still die of both.
There is an attempt, via lockdown etc to lower Covid numbers in order to stop the hospitals from being overwhelmed.
The flu doesn't overwhelm the hospitals in the same way therefore a lockdown is not seen to be required for it.

Maybe not in the same way but the flu does overwhelm hospitals at Winter and the health service does become strained and deaths do occur due to this and this is deemed an acceptable level.

So back to my question, what is an acceptable level of death. Lockdown has huge negative drawbacks to people's livelihoods, the economy and wider social and mental health problems so at what point do we say this lockdown and restrictions are counter-productive on a societal wide basis? That's a very important discussion those in power need to be discussing now.

We have been told again and again by scientists and the WHO that there is no silver bullet for Covid, it's going to be here for the medium to long terms so we simply have to learn to live with it. Some countries are making a much better fist of it that others.

Cases on the rise are going to be an inevitability.

There seems to be conflicting problems on both sides of the border - here it is the economic repercussions of quelling the spread, down south it's their dysfunctional health service being unable to cope. I think we probably have 4x the level of Covid transmissions up here at the minute that they have down south.

It would be true to say that at points during the winter the health system is overwhelmed. It's is also true to say that the flu is a factor and some years a massive problem. It depends on the strain, the efficacy of the latest vaccination and even how early in the winter the flu arrives.

But there are wider factors at play over the winter due to the cold (the temperature, not the illness).

But we accept whatever threats and levels of risk seasonal flu brings with it.

At what level do we accept Covid?

We don't just accept the flu. We pour billions into vaccinations and trying to treat.

We clearly do accept the flu.

Can you remind me of the last time we shut down entire industries and sectors because of the flu?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:21:51 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:33:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 09:39:57 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:35:09 AM


In terms of treatments, vaccines and understanding it is critically important that science keeps trying. Blockheads will try to get in the way but we just have to expose their idiocy

On the economic issues how many jobs will be lost if we don't get COVID sorted? What are the prospects for the global or domestic economy if we can't control, significantly treat, cure or vaccinate against Covid?

That's all speculative, neither of us have the answer but do you think it is good for the human race to hide under the bed waiting for science to solve it?

The data on the consequences of the second wave surge in Europe should be the decisive factor on which avenue we take. If the current trends continue then it looks more and more likely we can live with the virus.

To describe the search for treatment, vaccines and a better understanding of the virus as speculative probably gives away your degree of understanding of science and indeed English.

But please don't let me deter you from answering the economic questions I posed

What an absolutely idiotic statement you've just made. It's clearly speculative as you are asking to quantify what simply cannot be quantified right now.

Then prospects for global and domestic economies are absolutely catastrophic from lockdowns, we know that. We know already the billions and billions that have been lost as a result. Lockdowns are a course of action taken to deal with Covid but the WHO are warning against lockdowns now.

We have to wait and see now, science was not able to deal with SARS in time. Why are you so confident it will deal with this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:25:32 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 15, 2020, 11:00:25 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:48:20 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:08:35 AM

You keep asking nonsense questions like which people which leads to me think you are not capable of anything close to an intelligent debate. Why don't you conduct an audit.

Here's an article for your world of ignorance and naivety.

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/parents-dont-take-flu-seriously

The flu kills every year, vaccination or no vaccination. What is the acceptable level of risk? Why don't we go into lockdown every winter over the consequences of seasonal flu? Maybe you are now saying we should? At what cost does the world become consumed by Covid?

You confidently state "people on here ....." It's a logical question to ask you to name one. A question that you can't answer because it exposes your bogus argument

Stop using the flu as something to compare this to in terms of effects, numbers etc. It is such a lazy argument to bring the flu into it. Is is nothing like the flu once and is a nasty nasty repository disease.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-covid-19-isnt-the-flu

https://www.facebook.com/publichealthagency/videos/1720107168155944

Another spoofer saying things he has no clue about.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:32:23 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 15, 2020, 11:00:25 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:48:20 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:08:35 AM

You keep asking nonsense questions like which people which leads to me think you are not capable of anything close to an intelligent debate. Why don't you conduct an audit.

Here's an article for your world of ignorance and naivety.

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/parents-dont-take-flu-seriously

The flu kills every year, vaccination or no vaccination. What is the acceptable level of risk? Why don't we go into lockdown every winter over the consequences of seasonal flu? Maybe you are now saying we should? At what cost does the world become consumed by Covid?

You confidently state "people on here ....." It's a logical question to ask you to name one. A question that you can't answer because it exposes your bogus argument

Stop using the flu as something to compare this to in terms of effects, numbers etc. It is such a lazy argument to bring the flu into it. Is is nothing like the flu once and is a nasty nasty repository disease.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-covid-19-isnt-the-flu

https://www.facebook.com/publichealthagency/videos/1720107168155944

To tackle this sort of nonsense head on..

A) You have a link from f**king Facebook, that says it all.

The other link has 4 main bullet points:

1.Experts say there are a number of reasons why COVID-19 is a more serious illness than the seasonal flu.

Experts say, experts say a lot of things, experts say a lot of things that contradict each other - the bottom line is these experts tend to be able to agree on very little with Covid - it's a novel virus we are still finding out about

2. They point out there's no vaccine yet for COVID-19 and community-wide immunity hasn't built up.

My that is ground breaking news, what does that tell us about whether Covid is worse than flu in its effect on someone who gets it

3. COVID-19 is also more infectious than the flu and has a higher death rate.

It's a novel virus, all across Europe now we are seeing new cases of Covid surging but fatality rates in line with the first wave dropping in multiples of up to 46 as Belgium is at the minute for instance.

4. COVID-19 also has a higher rate of hospitalizations.

As above, the second wave has been far, far less severe than the first.

It's ok to preach caution but how anyone can conclude such matters on Covid v flu at this point is idiotic, we won't know that for some time at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:44:22 PM
Here's some experts saying something that contradicts what other experts are saying.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/10/14/the-great-barrington-declaration-herd-immunity-strategies-for-coronavirus-overlook-8-problems/#4fb2b9b0bf70
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:49:47 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:48:17 AM


I don't think there is any adult or adolescent who does not know that the flu can be fatal.

In stupidity terms, I think this has to rank as the most idiotic contribution to this thread so far.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 12:54:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 15, 2020, 11:58:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 11:03:49 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 15, 2020, 10:48:01 AM
Reported by Rob O'Hanrahan on twitter here -

In the South (so you must assume the North isn't too much different).

522 outbreaks

352 Private Households
25 Schools
7 Resturant/Cafe
4 Pubs
3 Sporting/Fitness

So the 3 lowest places are the ones being hit the hardest!! The reason is they are working their socks off to provide a safe place for their customers!

Because these are lowest doesn't that they are not causing the problem. If two people in the same house get Covid then the association is clearly made, if one person passes Covid to someone else in a pub then a week later when these people are rested, this is classes as "Community Transmission". You would need a proper effort in contact tracing to get back to the pub and that effort hasn't happened. It is people getting it in pubs that are bringing it into houses.

And you know this?

as you said we'd need a proper effort in tracing before you can get to the bottom of this.

Not every household is going to the pub, or have anyone within their house has been in contact with someone that has been to the pub, they'd probably have a lot of contact with people that have been to the shops or at school/uni and other places that are not pub related..

I've been to the pub once since they opened and the restaurants a few times over all... they ain't busy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 15, 2020, 12:56:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:44:22 PM
Here's some experts saying something that contradicts what other experts are saying.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/10/14/the-great-barrington-declaration-herd-immunity-strategies-for-coronavirus-overlook-8-problems/#4fb2b9b0bf70
The so called "Great Barrington Declaration" is a piece of right-wing political propaganda funded by a crazy libertarian think tank

The Covid equivalent of paid climate change denialism

The article you link to actually takes it apart piece by piece, which I don't think was your intention

You'd be better off not cogging your ideas from the loonies on thefreekick.com





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:00:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 15, 2020, 12:56:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:44:22 PM
Here's some experts saying something that contradicts what other experts are saying.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/10/14/the-great-barrington-declaration-herd-immunity-strategies-for-coronavirus-overlook-8-problems/#4fb2b9b0bf70
The so called "Great Barrington Declaration" is a piece of right-wing political propaganda funded by a crazy libertarian think tank

The Covid equivalent of paid climate change denialism

The article you link to actually takes it apart piece by piece, which I don't think was your intention

You'd be better off not cogging your ideas from the loonies on thefreekick.com

Whatever but these people are so called "experts" so using "experts" to suit your agenda and ignoring "experts" because they don't suit your agenda is contradictory. And there is wide division between experts, everything is speculated.

We don't know enough about Covid yet, we are going to find out up north in the next 5/6 weeks about whether we can live with this, the cases are there, nothing can be done about now so we wait and see how they translate to deaths and the age and health of the people they impact. The excess deaths in August/Sept/Oct/Nov/Dec should be the basis on the approach we take going forward. Science is too far behind at the minute.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
I don't think I've seen a poster make such a fool of themselves since trailer departed us.

But it makes great lunchtime reading - so keep up the good work young Angelo  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 15, 2020, 01:02:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:44:22 PM
Here's some experts saying something that contradicts what other experts are saying.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/10/14/the-great-barrington-declaration-herd-immunity-strategies-for-coronavirus-overlook-8-problems/#4fb2b9b0bf70

'An open letter that made headlines calling for a herd immunity approach to Covid-19 lists a number of apparently fake names among its expert signatories, including "Dr Johnny Bananas" and "Professor Cominic Dummings".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 01:03:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:00:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 15, 2020, 12:56:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:44:22 PM
Here's some experts saying something that contradicts what other experts are saying.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/10/14/the-great-barrington-declaration-herd-immunity-strategies-for-coronavirus-overlook-8-problems/#4fb2b9b0bf70
The so called "Great Barrington Declaration" is a piece of right-wing political propaganda funded by a crazy libertarian think tank

The Covid equivalent of paid climate change denialism

The article you link to actually takes it apart piece by piece, which I don't think was your intention

You'd be better off not cogging your ideas from the loonies on thefreekick.com

Whatever but these people are so called "experts" so using "experts" to suit your agenda and ignoring "experts" because they don't suit your agenda is contradictory. And there is wide division between experts, everything is speculated.

We don't know enough about Covid yet, we are going to find out up north in the next 5/6 weeks about whether we can live with this, the cases are there, nothing can be done about now so we wait and see how they translate to deaths and the age and health of the people they impact. The excess deaths in August/Sept/Oct/Nov/Dec should be the basis on the approach we take going forward. Science is too far behind at the minute.

After about a thousand posts on it you come across as you know a lot about it  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 15, 2020, 01:05:40 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 15, 2020, 01:02:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:44:22 PM
Here's some experts saying something that contradicts what other experts are saying.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/10/14/the-great-barrington-declaration-herd-immunity-strategies-for-coronavirus-overlook-8-problems/#4fb2b9b0bf70

'An open letter that made headlines calling for a herd immunity approach to Covid-19 lists a number of apparently fake names among its expert signatories, including "Dr Johnny Bananas" and "Professor Cominic Dummings".
Dr. Ulick Magee, Professor of Public Health at Barstools College, Carigstown is a signatory

Good to see the leading Irish experts on board
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 15, 2020, 01:06:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 12:54:18 PM
And you know this?

as you said we'd need a proper effort in tracing before you can get to the bottom of this.

Not every household is going to the pub, or have anyone within their house has been in contact with someone that has been to the pub, they'd probably have a lot of contact with people that have been to the shops or at school/uni and other places that are not pub related..

I've been to the pub once since they opened and the restaurants a few times over all... they ain't busy

I don't know this although I have heard the medical people say this. But if you get it in school it is much more likely to identified, if Jimmy gets Covid and rings the school to tell them then they'll also know that Johnny in his class who sits beside him has Covid and the connection will be made.

Of course you can get Covid in shops, but being in and out is safer than than sitting there for several hours.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 15, 2020, 01:11:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
I don't think I've seen a poster make such a fool of themselves since trailer departed us.

But it makes great lunchtime reading - so keep up the good work young Angelo  ;D

i disagree, its horrible reading and ruining this thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:11:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
I don't think I've seen a poster make such a fool of themselves since trailer departed us.

But it makes great lunchtime reading - so keep up the good work young Angelo  ;D

You're the blowhard who was making definitive claims about Covid when it is impossible to make that kind of judgement on Covid.

Don't be embarrassed now because I set your straight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:14:13 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 15, 2020, 01:02:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:44:22 PM
Here's some experts saying something that contradicts what other experts are saying.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/10/14/the-great-barrington-declaration-herd-immunity-strategies-for-coronavirus-overlook-8-problems/#4fb2b9b0bf70

'An open letter that made headlines calling for a herd immunity approach to Covid-19 lists a number of apparently fake names among its expert signatories, including "Dr Johnny Bananas" and "Professor Cominic Dummings".

From people who are classified as experts.

Unless you are saying we shouldn't be listening to Professors of medicine and epidemiology  from prestigious universities?

I don't know whether they are right or wrong but it's great to see a few blowhards on the internet seem to think they know better.

Off to the WHO with you so and solve it for us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:17:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 01:03:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:00:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 15, 2020, 12:56:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:44:22 PM
Here's some experts saying something that contradicts what other experts are saying.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/10/14/the-great-barrington-declaration-herd-immunity-strategies-for-coronavirus-overlook-8-problems/#4fb2b9b0bf70
The so called "Great Barrington Declaration" is a piece of right-wing political propaganda funded by a crazy libertarian think tank

The Covid equivalent of paid climate change denialism

The article you link to actually takes it apart piece by piece, which I don't think was your intention

You'd be better off not cogging your ideas from the loonies on thefreekick.com

Whatever but these people are so called "experts" so using "experts" to suit your agenda and ignoring "experts" because they don't suit your agenda is contradictory. And there is wide division between experts, everything is speculated.

We don't know enough about Covid yet, we are going to find out up north in the next 5/6 weeks about whether we can live with this, the cases are there, nothing can be done about now so we wait and see how they translate to deaths and the age and health of the people they impact. The excess deaths in August/Sept/Oct/Nov/Dec should be the basis on the approach we take going forward. Science is too far behind at the minute.

After about a thousand posts on it you come across as you know a lot about it  ;D

On the contrary, all I've done on this thread is challenged people who know nothing about the virus making outlandish claims about the virus.

I've repeated time and time again we know very little about it and the next 5/6 weeks will be telling on what data is returned on this second wave.

The one sure thing we know is that lockdown and excessive restrictions have and will cause severe economic and societal problems and this kind of lockdown we have must be the last we enter if the data returned from the second wave is much more positive than the first.

Time will tell us that, not a few blowhards on an internet forum.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 15, 2020, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:17:47 PM
On the contrary, all I've done on this thread is challenged people who know nothing about the virus making outlandish claims about the virus.

I've repeated time and time again we know very little about it and the next 5/6 weeks will be telling on what data is returned on this second wave.

The one sure thing we know is that lockdown and excessive restrictions have and will cause severe economic and societal problems and this kind of lockdown we have must be the last we enter if the data returned from the second wave is much more positive than the first.

Time will tell us that, not a few blowhards on an internet forum.

You've shown that you know nothing about it and are very resistant to being provided with information.
You must have been vaccinated against education.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:28:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 15, 2020, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:17:47 PM
On the contrary, all I've done on this thread is challenged people who know nothing about the virus making outlandish claims about the virus.

I've repeated time and time again we know very little about it and the next 5/6 weeks will be telling on what data is returned on this second wave.

The one sure thing we know is that lockdown and excessive restrictions have and will cause severe economic and societal problems and this kind of lockdown we have must be the last we enter if the data returned from the second wave is much more positive than the first.

Time will tell us that, not a few blowhards on an internet forum.

You've shown that you know nothing about it and are very resistant to being provided with information.
You must have been vaccinated against education.

Incorrect.

I have stated that all the expert blowhards on here who are making definitive conclusions about Covid know as little as the rest of us.

That hasn't set well with them and their narrative.

What do you know about it for starters? Nothing.

Thanks for your input.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:33:00 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:11:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
I don't think I've seen a poster make such a fool of themselves since trailer departed us.

But it makes great lunchtime reading - so keep up the good work young Angelo  ;D

You're the blowhard who was making definitive claims about Covid when it is impossible to make that kind of judgement on Covid.

Don't be embarrassed now because I set your straight.

Lol

It doesn't surprise me that you find such a simple task impossible.

But by all means keep trying.  It's great telly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 15, 2020, 01:34:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 15, 2020, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:17:47 PM
On the contrary, all I've done on this thread is challenged people who know nothing about the virus making outlandish claims about the virus.

I've repeated time and time again we know very little about it and the next 5/6 weeks will be telling on what data is returned on this second wave.

The one sure thing we know is that lockdown and excessive restrictions have and will cause severe economic and societal problems and this kind of lockdown we have must be the last we enter if the data returned from the second wave is much more positive than the first.

Time will tell us that, not a few blowhards on an internet forum.

You've shown that you know nothing about it and are very resistant to being provided with information.
You must have been vaccinated against education.

Armaghniac your feelings on Covid are so desperately loaded towards a doomsday scenario, that you're incapable of being objective in any discussion of the subject. For you to attack anyone as "knowing nothing about it" is incredulous, as you simply refuse to consider that the virus may not be a global killer., and will  refuse to read or consider any evidence against your preordained thought channel.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:39:09 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:33:00 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:11:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
I don't think I've seen a poster make such a fool of themselves since trailer departed us.

But it makes great lunchtime reading - so keep up the good work young Angelo  ;D

You're the blowhard who was making definitive claims about Covid when it is impossible to make that kind of judgement on Covid.

Don't be embarrassed now because I set your straight.

Lol

It doesn't surprise me that you find such a simple task impossible.

But by all means keep trying.  It's great telly.

A vacuous, smarmy reply.

I didn't see that coming, it's almost like you have nothing of substance to add.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 01:52:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 15, 2020, 01:06:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 15, 2020, 12:54:18 PM
And you know this?

as you said we'd need a proper effort in tracing before you can get to the bottom of this.

Not every household is going to the pub, or have anyone within their house has been in contact with someone that has been to the pub, they'd probably have a lot of contact with people that have been to the shops or at school/uni and other places that are not pub related..

I've been to the pub once since they opened and the restaurants a few times over all... they ain't busy

I don't know this although I have heard the medical people say this. But if you get it in school it is much more likely to identified, if Jimmy gets Covid and rings the school to tell them then they'll also know that Johnny in his class who sits beside him has Covid and the connection will be made.

Of course you can get Covid in shops, but being in and out is safer than than sitting there for several hours.

The bars, up to when the wet bars opened was 1 hour 30 limit where I went to, outside was different.

If jimmy got Covid and rang the pub, they were supposed to be contact tracing them, they would have done the same as the school, and because a lot of them were doing that they are being punished for it!

It's safe if whoever you come into contact with hasn't got it, it's not safe if you've picked it up by sitting on a bus/train in a shop or office or from kids at school and you've passed it on to someone at work and so on. It's either close the lot down or keep things open but manage and enforce it better..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:54:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:39:09 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:33:00 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:11:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
I don't think I've seen a poster make such a fool of themselves since trailer departed us.

But it makes great lunchtime reading - so keep up the good work young Angelo  ;D

You're the blowhard who was making definitive claims about Covid when it is impossible to make that kind of judgement on Covid.

Don't be embarrassed now because I set your straight.

Lol

It doesn't surprise me that you find such a simple task impossible.

But by all means keep trying.  It's great telly.

A vacuous, smarmy reply.

I didn't see that coming, it's almost like you have nothing of substance to add.

Better to let you at it, you're doing really well here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:56:56 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:54:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:39:09 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:33:00 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:11:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
I don't think I've seen a poster make such a fool of themselves since trailer departed us.

But it makes great lunchtime reading - so keep up the good work young Angelo  ;D

You're the blowhard who was making definitive claims about Covid when it is impossible to make that kind of judgement on Covid.

Don't be embarrassed now because I set your straight.

Lol

It doesn't surprise me that you find such a simple task impossible.

But by all means keep trying.  It's great telly.

A vacuous, smarmy reply.

I didn't see that coming, it's almost like you have nothing of substance to add.

Better to let you at it, you're doing really well here.

I don't think you're letting me at it, I just don't think you've anything to offer when it comes to substance.

The empty smarmy replies are what your arsenal consists of.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 15, 2020, 02:00:41 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 15, 2020, 01:34:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 15, 2020, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:17:47 PM
On the contrary, all I've done on this thread is challenged people who know nothing about the virus making outlandish claims about the virus.

I've repeated time and time again we know very little about it and the next 5/6 weeks will be telling on what data is returned on this second wave.

The one sure thing we know is that lockdown and excessive restrictions have and will cause severe economic and societal problems and this kind of lockdown we have must be the last we enter if the data returned from the second wave is much more positive than the first.

Time will tell us that, not a few blowhards on an internet forum.

You've shown that you know nothing about it and are very resistant to being provided with information.
You must have been vaccinated against education.

Armaghniac your feelings on Covid are so desperately loaded towards a doomsday scenario, that you're incapable of being objective in any discussion of the subject. For you to attack anyone as "knowing nothing about it" is incredulous, as you simply refuse to consider that the virus may not be a global killer., and will  refuse to read or consider any evidence against your preordained thought channel.

Not so. I am informed by the data and anyone that wishes to refute anything I say need only produce reliable data. I have never said that it is the end of the world, but over 1 million people have died and in some parts of the world deaths rates have been two and a half times the usual number, so it is not a trivial thing either.

What I am against is people who claim that "science is only guessing" or "restrictions don't work" and who then go on to claim that the disease is not serious because of a decline in fatalities resulting from better science or restrictions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 15, 2020, 02:03:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:56:56 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:54:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:39:09 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:33:00 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:11:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
I don't think I've seen a poster make such a fool of themselves since trailer departed us.

But it makes great lunchtime reading - so keep up the good work young Angelo  ;D

You're the blowhard who was making definitive claims about Covid when it is impossible to make that kind of judgement on Covid.

Don't be embarrassed now because I set your straight.

Lol

It doesn't surprise me that you find such a simple task impossible.

But by all means keep trying.  It's great telly.

A vacuous, smarmy reply.

I didn't see that coming, it's almost like you have nothing of substance to add.

Better to let you at it, you're doing really well here.

I don't think you're letting me at it, I just don't think you've anything to offer when it comes to substance.

The empty smarmy replies are what your arsenal consists of.

No, I am.  And you're playing a blinder!  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 02:05:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 15, 2020, 02:00:41 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 15, 2020, 01:34:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 15, 2020, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:17:47 PM
On the contrary, all I've done on this thread is challenged people who know nothing about the virus making outlandish claims about the virus.

I've repeated time and time again we know very little about it and the next 5/6 weeks will be telling on what data is returned on this second wave.

The one sure thing we know is that lockdown and excessive restrictions have and will cause severe economic and societal problems and this kind of lockdown we have must be the last we enter if the data returned from the second wave is much more positive than the first.

Time will tell us that, not a few blowhards on an internet forum.

You've shown that you know nothing about it and are very resistant to being provided with information.
You must have been vaccinated against education.

Armaghniac your feelings on Covid are so desperately loaded towards a doomsday scenario, that you're incapable of being objective in any discussion of the subject. For you to attack anyone as "knowing nothing about it" is incredulous, as you simply refuse to consider that the virus may not be a global killer., and will  refuse to read or consider any evidence against your preordained thought channel.

Not so. I am informed by the data and anyone that wishes to refute anything I say need only produce reliable data. I have never said that it is the end of the world, but over 1 million people have died and in some parts of the world deaths rates have been two and a half times the usual number, so it is not a trivial thing either.

What I am against is people who claim that "science is only guessing" or "restrictions don't work" and who then go on to claim that the disease is not serious because of a decline in fatalities resulting from better science or restrictions.

But science is guessing. Have you been paying any attention so far? They haven't a breeze. Children for instance, spreaders or not don't know. Masks? Contended. Vaccine? On the way or not? Contended? Was it airborne or just on surfaces? They changed their mind on that? Remember all the modellers who predicted X number of cases and death and how wrong were they?

You seem to be putting faith in a field that can't find unilateral agreement in itself so what exactly are you saying?

I don't see where anybody said the disease wasn't serious here so try not be disingenuous.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on October 15, 2020, 02:30:09 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
I don't think I've seen a poster make such a fool of themselves since trailer departed us.

But it makes great lunchtime reading - so keep up the good work young Angelo  ;D
It's staggering!

Fair play to LCohen and a few others for repeatedly calling out his nonsense in a very reasonable manner. Although I think their calm reasoned logical responses are utterly pointless as nothing goes in to that head of his!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 02:31:56 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 15, 2020, 02:30:09 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
I don't think I've seen a poster make such a fool of themselves since trailer departed us.

But it makes great lunchtime reading - so keep up the good work young Angelo  ;D
It's staggering!

Fair play to LCohen and a few others for repeatedly calling out his nonsense in a very reasonable manner. Although I think their calm reasoned logical responses are utterly pointless as nothing goes in to that head of his!

What is staggering?

The only nonsense being put forward here are people making definitive statements about a novel virus that is still perplexing scientists.

You must be another amateur epidemiologist who thinks his opinions are facts?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on October 15, 2020, 02:39:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:32:23 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 15, 2020, 11:00:25 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:48:20 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:08:35 AM

You keep asking nonsense questions like which people which leads to me think you are not capable of anything close to an intelligent debate. Why don't you conduct an audit.

Here's an article for your world of ignorance and naivety.

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/parents-dont-take-flu-seriously

The flu kills every year, vaccination or no vaccination. What is the acceptable level of risk? Why don't we go into lockdown every winter over the consequences of seasonal flu? Maybe you are now saying we should? At what cost does the world become consumed by Covid?

You confidently state "people on here ....." It's a logical question to ask you to name one. A question that you can't answer because it exposes your bogus argument

Stop using the flu as something to compare this to in terms of effects, numbers etc. It is such a lazy argument to bring the flu into it. Is is nothing like the flu once and is a nasty nasty repository disease.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-covid-19-isnt-the-flu

https://www.facebook.com/publichealthagency/videos/1720107168155944

To tackle this sort of nonsense head on..

A) You have a link from f**king Facebook, that says it all.

The other link has 4 main bullet points:

1.Experts say there are a number of reasons why COVID-19 is a more serious illness than the seasonal flu.

Experts say, experts say a lot of things, experts say a lot of things that contradict each other - the bottom line is these experts tend to be able to agree on very little with Covid - it's a novel virus we are still finding out about

2. They point out there's no vaccine yet for COVID-19 and community-wide immunity hasn't built up.

My that is ground breaking news, what does that tell us about whether Covid is worse than flu in its effect on someone who gets it

3. COVID-19 is also more infectious than the flu and has a higher death rate.

It's a novel virus, all across Europe now we are seeing new cases of Covid surging but fatality rates in line with the first wave dropping in multiples of up to 46 as Belgium is at the minute for instance.

4. COVID-19 also has a higher rate of hospitalizations.

As above, the second wave has been far, far less severe than the first.

It's ok to preach caution but how anyone can conclude such matters on Covid v flu at this point is idiotic, we won't know that for some time at all.


FFS....It wasn't any Facebook post. It was from the Public Health Agency. Not some half baked eejit.

Anyway, f**k it - you win. You are right and we are all wrong if that makes you feel better and the big man who is always right. I've better things to do with my life than spend all day on a forum with someone who twists and argues every minor details in some fucked up way. I'm all for debate and f**k knows I don't always get it right but I know where my moral compass is and that's all I care about. Good luck.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 15, 2020, 02:39:15 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 15, 2020, 01:34:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 15, 2020, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:17:47 PM
On the contrary, all I've done on this thread is challenged people who know nothing about the virus making outlandish claims about the virus.

I've repeated time and time again we know very little about it and the next 5/6 weeks will be telling on what data is returned on this second wave.

The one sure thing we know is that lockdown and excessive restrictions have and will cause severe economic and societal problems and this kind of lockdown we have must be the last we enter if the data returned from the second wave is much more positive than the first.

Time will tell us that, not a few blowhards on an internet forum.

You've shown that you know nothing about it and are very resistant to being provided with information.
You must have been vaccinated against education.

Armaghniac your feelings on Covid are so desperately loaded towards a doomsday scenario, that you're incapable of being objective in any discussion of the subject. For you to attack anyone as "knowing nothing about it" is incredulous, as you simply refuse to consider that the virus may not be a global killer., and will  refuse to read or consider any evidence against your preordained thought channel.
The virus has already killed 1.1 million people around the world

It's bizarre that you'd deny something that has been demonstrably true and has been for the last seven months
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 15, 2020, 02:52:56 PM
Sid, it would be more honest and realistic if instead of producing a figure of 1.1m in isolation - which means it is always going to look vast - perhaps  evaluating it against a relevant figure or benchmark.

Such as the one that 55 or so million people die every year across the globe. And that approximately 3 million people across the world were dying every year from respiratory infections, before Covid came along.


——

I know you're spoiling for an argument where you'll inevitably be wrong and throw out a load of nonsense garble that you recently used against someone else and thought it sounded clever, so I'm away now.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 02:56:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 15, 2020, 02:39:15 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 15, 2020, 01:34:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 15, 2020, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:17:47 PM
On the contrary, all I've done on this thread is challenged people who know nothing about the virus making outlandish claims about the virus.

I've repeated time and time again we know very little about it and the next 5/6 weeks will be telling on what data is returned on this second wave.

The one sure thing we know is that lockdown and excessive restrictions have and will cause severe economic and societal problems and this kind of lockdown we have must be the last we enter if the data returned from the second wave is much more positive than the first.

Time will tell us that, not a few blowhards on an internet forum.

You've shown that you know nothing about it and are very resistant to being provided with information.
You must have been vaccinated against education.

Armaghniac your feelings on Covid are so desperately loaded towards a doomsday scenario, that you're incapable of being objective in any discussion of the subject. For you to attack anyone as "knowing nothing about it" is incredulous, as you simply refuse to consider that the virus may not be a global killer., and will  refuse to read or consider any evidence against your preordained thought channel.
The virus has already killed 1.1 million people around the world

It's bizarre that you'd deny something that has been demonstrably true and has been for the last seven months

Fatality rates are dropping in double digit multiples across Europe in the second surge so far.

We will see what level those figures are at in the new year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:01:25 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 15, 2020, 02:39:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:32:23 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 15, 2020, 11:00:25 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:48:20 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:08:35 AM

You keep asking nonsense questions like which people which leads to me think you are not capable of anything close to an intelligent debate. Why don't you conduct an audit.

Here's an article for your world of ignorance and naivety.

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/parents-dont-take-flu-seriously

The flu kills every year, vaccination or no vaccination. What is the acceptable level of risk? Why don't we go into lockdown every winter over the consequences of seasonal flu? Maybe you are now saying we should? At what cost does the world become consumed by Covid?

You confidently state "people on here ....." It's a logical question to ask you to name one. A question that you can't answer because it exposes your bogus argument

Stop using the flu as something to compare this to in terms of effects, numbers etc. It is such a lazy argument to bring the flu into it. Is is nothing like the flu once and is a nasty nasty repository disease.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-covid-19-isnt-the-flu

https://www.facebook.com/publichealthagency/videos/1720107168155944

To tackle this sort of nonsense head on..

A) You have a link from f**king Facebook, that says it all.

The other link has 4 main bullet points:

1.Experts say there are a number of reasons why COVID-19 is a more serious illness than the seasonal flu.

Experts say, experts say a lot of things, experts say a lot of things that contradict each other - the bottom line is these experts tend to be able to agree on very little with Covid - it's a novel virus we are still finding out about

2. They point out there's no vaccine yet for COVID-19 and community-wide immunity hasn't built up.

My that is ground breaking news, what does that tell us about whether Covid is worse than flu in its effect on someone who gets it

3. COVID-19 is also more infectious than the flu and has a higher death rate.

It's a novel virus, all across Europe now we are seeing new cases of Covid surging but fatality rates in line with the first wave dropping in multiples of up to 46 as Belgium is at the minute for instance.

4. COVID-19 also has a higher rate of hospitalizations.

As above, the second wave has been far, far less severe than the first.

It's ok to preach caution but how anyone can conclude such matters on Covid v flu at this point is idiotic, we won't know that for some time at all.


FFS....It wasn't any Facebook post. It was from the Public Health Agency. Not some half baked eejit.

Anyway, f**k it - you win. You are right and we are all wrong if that makes you feel better and the big man who is always right. I've better things to do with my life than spend all day on a forum with someone who twists and argues every minor details in some fucked up way. I'm all for debate and f**k knows I don't always get it right but I know where my moral compass is and that's all I care about. Good luck.

I'm not making any sort of definitive statements. I think it's dangerous to do so on a virus we have very limited knowledge and understanding of.

The data will be the most telling in the next few weeks and how prepared we now are to respond to it.

What is much more quantifiable is the negative impact of lockdowns on the economy, on people's livelihoods, societal impacts and mental health issues associated with it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 15, 2020, 03:07:25 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 15, 2020, 02:30:09 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
I don't think I've seen a poster make such a fool of themselves since trailer departed us.

But it makes great lunchtime reading - so keep up the good work young Angelo  ;D
It's staggering!

Fair play to LCohen and a few others for repeatedly calling out his nonsense in a very reasonable manner. Although I think their calm reasoned logical responses are utterly pointless as nothing goes in to that head of his!

Logic or reason are a waste of time.  Tried it and failed.

Better to sit back, enjoy the meltdown and be thankful you were born with a functioning brain.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 15, 2020, 03:11:22 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 15, 2020, 02:52:56 PM
Sid, it would be more honest and realistic if instead of producing a figure of 1.1m in isolation - which means it is always going to look vast - perhaps  evaluating it against a relevant figure or benchmark.

Such as the one that 55 or so million people die every year across the globe. And that approximately 3 million people across the world were dying every year from respiratory infections, before Covid came along.


——

I know you're spoiling for an argument where you'll inevitably be wrong and throw out a load of nonsense garble that you recently used against someone else and thought it sounded clever, so I'm away now.

You're arguing that a demonstrable fact is a not a fact

Just accept you're wrong and are yet again talking shite, as you have done since the start of this pandemic

At least with Fulvio, sorry Angelo, he has the excuse of being not that bright

It's sadder to see somebody with at least some semblance of intelligence choosing to go down the rabbit hole you have gone down over the last while

Sort of Graham Linehan-esque

I'm quite fascinated by the mindset where seemingly reasonably smart people suddenly decide they want to reject reality and live in a world of make believe





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:11:40 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 03:07:25 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 15, 2020, 02:30:09 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
I don't think I've seen a poster make such a fool of themselves since trailer departed us.

But it makes great lunchtime reading - so keep up the good work young Angelo  ;D
It's staggering!

Fair play to LCohen and a few others for repeatedly calling out his nonsense in a very reasonable manner. Although I think their calm reasoned logical responses are utterly pointless as nothing goes in to that head of his!

Logic or reason are a waste of time.  Tried it and failed.

Better to sit back, enjoy the meltdown and be thankful you were born with a functioning brain.

Maybe you should try using logic or reason as the only thing you contributed were hysterical assertions that flew in the face of logic and reason.

People who use logic and reason would be able to understand that making definitive statements on a novel virus is idiocy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 15, 2020, 03:12:49 PM
Wasn't this dance done with Smurfy about four months ago? Angelo is just the more verbose version, with a poorer head for figures.

Attempts to enter into this discussion in good faith are pointless. Pointless because he has rigged the argument from the start. He has set parameters asserting that science knows nothing and can't be trusted. He is therefore bulletproof to any counter argument informed by research or expert opinion.

This is the post fact, post truth world. Where no one knows anything more than anyone else. Where no one can know more than anyone else. Where everyone's half baked opinions all hold equal weight. Where you just make up your own reality and refuse to let anyone tell you that you're wrong.

Fortunately, Celtic and Tyrone are back in action this weekend, so yer man should occupied arguing black is white in those threads for at least a few days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:13:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 15, 2020, 03:11:22 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 15, 2020, 02:52:56 PM
Sid, it would be more honest and realistic if instead of producing a figure of 1.1m in isolation - which means it is always going to look vast - perhaps  evaluating it against a relevant figure or benchmark.

Such as the one that 55 or so million people die every year across the globe. And that approximately 3 million people across the world were dying every year from respiratory infections, before Covid came along.


——

I know you're spoiling for an argument where you'll inevitably be wrong and throw out a load of nonsense garble that you recently used against someone else and thought it sounded clever, so I'm away now.

You're arguing that a demonstrable fact is a not a fact

Just accept you're wrong and are yet again talking shite, as you have done since the start of this pandemic

At least with Fulvio, sorry Angelo, he has the excuse of being not that bright

It's sadder to see somebody with at least some semblance of intelligence choosing to go down the rabbit hole you have gone down over the last while

Sort of Graham Linehan-esque

I'm quite fascinated by the mindset where seemingly reasonably smart people suddenly decide they want to reject reality and live in a world of make believe

I'm quite fascinated by your arrogance.

It amazes me that we have all these experts here who know so much about Covid yet cases surge all over the world. Your talents are wasted on an internet forum.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 15, 2020, 03:13:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:11:40 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 03:07:25 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 15, 2020, 02:30:09 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 01:01:55 PM
I don't think I've seen a poster make such a fool of themselves since trailer departed us.

But it makes great lunchtime reading - so keep up the good work young Angelo  ;D
It's staggering!

Fair play to LCohen and a few others for repeatedly calling out his nonsense in a very reasonable manner. Although I think their calm reasoned logical responses are utterly pointless as nothing goes in to that head of his!

Logic or reason are a waste of time.  Tried it and failed.

Better to sit back, enjoy the meltdown and be thankful you were born with a functioning brain.

Maybe you should try using logic or reason as the only thing you contributed were hysterical assertions that flew in the face of logic and reason.

People who use logic and reason would be able to understand that making definitive statements on a novel virus is idiocy.

And we're away again!

Hon Angelo atta boy, you tell em  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 15, 2020, 03:17:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 15, 2020, 03:12:49 PM
Wasn't this dance done with Smurfy about four months ago? Angelo is just the more verbose version, with a poorer head for figures.

Attempts to enter into this discussion in good faith are pointless. Pointless because he has rigged the argument from the start. He has set parameters asserting that science knows nothing and can't be trusted. He is therefore bulletproof to any counter argument informed by research or expert opinion.

This is the post fact, post truth world. Where no one knows anything more than anyone else. Where no one can know more than anyone else. Where everyone's half baked opinions all hold equal weight. Where you just make up your own reality and refuse to let anyone tell you that you're wrong.

Fortunately, Celtic and Tyrone are back in action this weekend, so yer man should occupied arguing black is white in those threads for at least a few days.
Facts and truth are "elitist" now

Thanks Rupert Murdoch and the Koch brothers and their fellow elites that have promoted this brain rot for decades

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:17:52 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 15, 2020, 03:12:49 PM
Wasn't this dance done with Smurfy about four months ago? Angelo is just the more verbose version, with a poorer head for figures.

Attempts to enter into this discussion in good faith are pointless. Pointless because he has rigged the argument from the start. He has set parameters asserting that science knows nothing and can't be trusted. He is therefore bulletproof to any counter argument informed by in research or expert opinion.

This is the post fact, post truth world. Where no one knows anything more than anyone else. Where no one can know more than anyone else. Where everyone's half baked opinions all hold equal weight. Where you just make up your own reality and refuse to let anyone tell you that you're wrong.

Fortunately, Celtic and Tyrone are back in action this weekend, so yer man should occupied arguing black is white in those threads for at least a few days.

I haven't said science knows nothing or can't be trusted.

I have said this a time sensitive matter, we are now entering a second lockdown which is going have huge economic and societal ramifications. Science seems to be at odds with each other on large elements of the virus. We can't keep entering lockdowns and restrictive measures to combat the virus, it's not feasible as a long term solution and there is no indication of a short-medium term solution from science, so the alternative is us living with the virus and what level do we say Covid is an acceptable risk, much like every winter we take the seasonal flu as an acceptable risk?

The figures coming from the second wave in terms of the potency of the virus are encouraging if they continue to fall or stabilise.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:31:27 PM
Let's use Belgium as an example

https://www.healthybelgium.be/en/health-status/communicable-diseases/influenza-and-influenza-like-illness#:~:text=Of%20the%20hospitalized%20cases%2C%2013,average%20compared%20to%20previous%20seasons.

On average, around 600,000 people are affected by influenza-like illness (ILI) each year in Belgium, i.e., about 5% of the total population. About 50-60% of these cases are actual influenza cases.
While ILI is in most cases a benign illness, about 2% to 3% of influenza cases require hospitalization. Of the hospitalized cases, 13% develop severe complications, including 6% who die in the course of hospital stay; usually more than 80% of these deaths occur in people of 65 years and over.
The Belgian flu epidemic of the 2018-2019 season lasted 8 weeks, which was average compared to previous seasons. An estimated 506,000 Belgians consulted their GP for flu-like symptoms. The severity indicators indicated that this flu epidemic was relatively no more serious than in previous seasons.

An estimated 600k people get a flu every year.
2-3% get hospitalised - take 3% - that's 18,000
6% of those hospitalised will die - that's 1,080 deaths a year from flu in Belgium
A fatality rate of 0.17% of those est infected

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/belgium/

The second wave currently in Belgium at the minute.
165,880 positive cases from 1 Aug to present
506 deaths from 1 Aug to present
A fatality rate of 0.31% of those with positive tests

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 15, 2020, 03:37:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:31:27 PM
Let's use Belgium as an example

https://www.healthybelgium.be/en/health-status/communicable-diseases/influenza-and-influenza-like-illness#:~:text=Of%20the%20hospitalized%20cases%2C%2013,average%20compared%20to%20previous%20seasons.

On average, around 600,000 people are affected by influenza-like illness (ILI) each year in Belgium, i.e., about 5% of the total population. About 50-60% of these cases are actual influenza cases.
While ILI is in most cases a benign illness, about 2% to 3% of influenza cases require hospitalization. Of the hospitalized cases, 13% develop severe complications, including 6% who die in the course of hospital stay; usually more than 80% of these deaths occur in people of 65 years and over.
The Belgian flu epidemic of the 2018-2019 season lasted 8 weeks, which was average compared to previous seasons. An estimated 506,000 Belgians consulted their GP for flu-like symptoms. The severity indicators indicated that this flu epidemic was relatively no more serious than in previous seasons.

An estimated 600k people get a flu every year.
2-3% get hospitalised - take 3% - that's 18,000
6% of those hospitalised will die - that's 1,080 deaths a year from flu in Belgium
A fatality rate of 0.17% of those est infected

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/belgium/

The second wave currently in Belgium at the minute.
165,880 positive cases from 1 Aug to present
506 deaths from 1 Aug to present
A fatality rate of 0.31% of those with positive tests

Does anyone else want to tell him?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:39:54 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 03:37:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:31:27 PM
Let's use Belgium as an example

https://www.healthybelgium.be/en/health-status/communicable-diseases/influenza-and-influenza-like-illness#:~:text=Of%20the%20hospitalized%20cases%2C%2013,average%20compared%20to%20previous%20seasons.

On average, around 600,000 people are affected by influenza-like illness (ILI) each year in Belgium, i.e., about 5% of the total population. About 50-60% of these cases are actual influenza cases.
While ILI is in most cases a benign illness, about 2% to 3% of influenza cases require hospitalization. Of the hospitalized cases, 13% develop severe complications, including 6% who die in the course of hospital stay; usually more than 80% of these deaths occur in people of 65 years and over.
The Belgian flu epidemic of the 2018-2019 season lasted 8 weeks, which was average compared to previous seasons. An estimated 506,000 Belgians consulted their GP for flu-like symptoms. The severity indicators indicated that this flu epidemic was relatively no more serious than in previous seasons.

An estimated 600k people get a flu every year.
2-3% get hospitalised - take 3% - that's 18,000
6% of those hospitalised will die - that's 1,080 deaths a year from flu in Belgium
A fatality rate of 0.17% of those est infected

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/belgium/

The second wave currently in Belgium at the minute.
165,880 positive cases from 1 Aug to present
506 deaths from 1 Aug to present
A fatality rate of 0.31% of those with positive tests

Does anyone else want to tell him?

Still unable to offer something substantive, maybe some of the gutsier posters will give it a go for you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:51:02 PM
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/surveillance/influenzasurveillancereports/previousinfluenzaseasonssurveillancereports/20172018season/Influenza%202017-2018%20Annual%20Summary_Final.pdf

o Sentinel GP ILI consultation peak rate: 100.8/100,000
o Number of notified influenza cases: 11,889
o Number of confirmed influenza cases hospitalised: 4,713
o Number of confirmed influenza cases admitted to ICU: 191
o Number of notified influenza cases that died: 255
o Number of acute respiratory infection/influenza outbreaks: 223

So the flu season in the 26 had a fatality rate of 2.17% on notified cases.

There have been 19,178 cases in the 26 of Covid from 1 Aug to present.
78 deaths from Covid in the 26 from 1 Aug to present.

Representing a fatality rate of 0.4%.

So I come back to what is an acceptable risk for Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 15, 2020, 03:54:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:39:54 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 03:37:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:31:27 PM
Let's use Belgium as an example

https://www.healthybelgium.be/en/health-status/communicable-diseases/influenza-and-influenza-like-illness#:~:text=Of%20the%20hospitalized%20cases%2C%2013,average%20compared%20to%20previous%20seasons.

On average, around 600,000 people are affected by influenza-like illness (ILI) each year in Belgium, i.e., about 5% of the total population. About 50-60% of these cases are actual influenza cases.
While ILI is in most cases a benign illness, about 2% to 3% of influenza cases require hospitalization. Of the hospitalized cases, 13% develop severe complications, including 6% who die in the course of hospital stay; usually more than 80% of these deaths occur in people of 65 years and over.
The Belgian flu epidemic of the 2018-2019 season lasted 8 weeks, which was average compared to previous seasons. An estimated 506,000 Belgians consulted their GP for flu-like symptoms. The severity indicators indicated that this flu epidemic was relatively no more serious than in previous seasons.

An estimated 600k people get a flu every year.
2-3% get hospitalised - take 3% - that's 18,000
6% of those hospitalised will die - that's 1,080 deaths a year from flu in Belgium
A fatality rate of 0.17% of those est infected

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/belgium/

The second wave currently in Belgium at the minute.
165,880 positive cases from 1 Aug to present
506 deaths from 1 Aug to present
A fatality rate of 0.31% of those with positive tests

Does anyone else want to tell him?

Still unable to offer something substantive, maybe some of the gutsier posters will give it a go for you.

Unsurprisingly, your maths is wrong.  ;D ;D ;D

You just keep on doing it don't you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 15, 2020, 03:57:55 PM
An acceptable risk to do what? Let it run rife?

At current growth rate hospitals in the north will not have the beds for people. It is rare that this had happened for flu to the best of my knowledge.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:01:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 03:54:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:39:54 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 03:37:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:31:27 PM
Let's use Belgium as an example

https://www.healthybelgium.be/en/health-status/communicable-diseases/influenza-and-influenza-like-illness#:~:text=Of%20the%20hospitalized%20cases%2C%2013,average%20compared%20to%20previous%20seasons.

On average, around 600,000 people are affected by influenza-like illness (ILI) each year in Belgium, i.e., about 5% of the total population. About 50-60% of these cases are actual influenza cases.
While ILI is in most cases a benign illness, about 2% to 3% of influenza cases require hospitalization. Of the hospitalized cases, 13% develop severe complications, including 6% who die in the course of hospital stay; usually more than 80% of these deaths occur in people of 65 years and over.
The Belgian flu epidemic of the 2018-2019 season lasted 8 weeks, which was average compared to previous seasons. An estimated 506,000 Belgians consulted their GP for flu-like symptoms. The severity indicators indicated that this flu epidemic was relatively no more serious than in previous seasons.

An estimated 600k people get a flu every year.
2-3% get hospitalised - take 3% - that's 18,000
6% of those hospitalised will die - that's 1,080 deaths a year from flu in Belgium
A fatality rate of 0.17% of those est infected

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/belgium/

The second wave currently in Belgium at the minute.
165,880 positive cases from 1 Aug to present
506 deaths from 1 Aug to present
A fatality rate of 0.31% of those with positive tests

Does anyone else want to tell him?

Still unable to offer something substantive, maybe some of the gutsier posters will give it a go for you.

Unsurprisingly, your maths is wrong.  ;D ;D ;D

You just keep on doing it don't you?

Those figures are fine, I think it's more a case of you suffering from an inflated sense of your own worth.

The floor is yours if you can correct them, careful though.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:03:00 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 15, 2020, 03:57:55 PM
An acceptable risk to do what? Let it run rife?

At current growth rate hospitals in the north will not have the beds for people. It is rare that this had happened for flu to the best of my knowledge.

An acceptable risk to the the detrimental economic and societal problems that lockdown and restrictions bring.

Seasonal flu overwhelms hospitals every year and we accept that risk. Should governments not have spent the last 6 months planing for poor healthcare capacity?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 15, 2020, 04:05:59 PM
I would agree with you but they haven't and the health service up north is now going to be in a very precarious position if something drastic is not done asap. I.e. lockdown

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:06:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:01:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 03:54:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:39:54 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 03:37:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:31:27 PM
Let's use Belgium as an example

https://www.healthybelgium.be/en/health-status/communicable-diseases/influenza-and-influenza-like-illness#:~:text=Of%20the%20hospitalized%20cases%2C%2013,average%20compared%20to%20previous%20seasons.

On average, around 600,000 people are affected by influenza-like illness (ILI) each year in Belgium, i.e., about 5% of the total population. About 50-60% of these cases are actual influenza cases.
While ILI is in most cases a benign illness, about 2% to 3% of influenza cases require hospitalization. Of the hospitalized cases, 13% develop severe complications, including 6% who die in the course of hospital stay; usually more than 80% of these deaths occur in people of 65 years and over.
The Belgian flu epidemic of the 2018-2019 season lasted 8 weeks, which was average compared to previous seasons. An estimated 506,000 Belgians consulted their GP for flu-like symptoms. The severity indicators indicated that this flu epidemic was relatively no more serious than in previous seasons.

An estimated 600k people get a flu every year.
2-3% get hospitalised - take 3% - that's 18,000
6% of those hospitalised will die - that's 1,080 deaths a year from flu in Belgium
A fatality rate of 0.17% of those est infected

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/belgium/

The second wave currently in Belgium at the minute.
165,880 positive cases from 1 Aug to present
506 deaths from 1 Aug to present
A fatality rate of 0.31% of those with positive tests

Does anyone else want to tell him?

Still unable to offer something substantive, maybe some of the gutsier posters will give it a go for you.

Unsurprisingly, your maths is wrong.  ;D ;D ;D

You just keep on doing it don't you?

Those figures are fine, I think it's more a case of you suffering from an inflated sense of your own worth.

The floor is yours if you can correct them, careful though.....

50-60% of 600,000 does not equal 600,000.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:08:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:06:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:01:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 03:54:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:39:54 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 03:37:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:31:27 PM
Let's use Belgium as an example

https://www.healthybelgium.be/en/health-status/communicable-diseases/influenza-and-influenza-like-illness#:~:text=Of%20the%20hospitalized%20cases%2C%2013,average%20compared%20to%20previous%20seasons.

On average, around 600,000 people are affected by influenza-like illness (ILI) each year in Belgium, i.e., about 5% of the total population. About 50-60% of these cases are actual influenza cases.
While ILI is in most cases a benign illness, about 2% to 3% of influenza cases require hospitalization. Of the hospitalized cases, 13% develop severe complications, including 6% who die in the course of hospital stay; usually more than 80% of these deaths occur in people of 65 years and over.
The Belgian flu epidemic of the 2018-2019 season lasted 8 weeks, which was average compared to previous seasons. An estimated 506,000 Belgians consulted their GP for flu-like symptoms. The severity indicators indicated that this flu epidemic was relatively no more serious than in previous seasons.

An estimated 600k people get a flu every year.
2-3% get hospitalised - take 3% - that's 18,000
6% of those hospitalised will die - that's 1,080 deaths a year from flu in Belgium
A fatality rate of 0.17% of those est infected

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/belgium/

The second wave currently in Belgium at the minute.
165,880 positive cases from 1 Aug to present
506 deaths from 1 Aug to present
A fatality rate of 0.31% of those with positive tests

Does anyone else want to tell him?

Still unable to offer something substantive, maybe some of the gutsier posters will give it a go for you.

Unsurprisingly, your maths is wrong.  ;D ;D ;D

You just keep on doing it don't you?

Those figures are fine, I think it's more a case of you suffering from an inflated sense of your own worth.

The floor is yours if you can correct them, careful though.....

50-60% of 600,000 does not equal 600,000.

Ah I didn't realise you were illiterate.

Let me explain this for you:

On average, around 600,000 people are affected by influenza-like illness (ILI) each year in Belgium, i.e., about 5% of the total population. About 50-60% of these cases are actual influenza cases.
While ILI is in most cases a benign illness, about 2% to 3% of influenza cases require hospitalization. Of the hospitalized cases, 13% develop severe complications, including 6% who die in the course of hospital stay; usually more than 80% of these deaths occur in people of 65 years and over.
The Belgian flu epidemic of the 2018-2019 season lasted 8 weeks, which was average compared to previous seasons. An estimated 506,000 Belgians consulted their GP for flu-like symptoms. The severity indicators indicated that this flu epidemic was relatively no more serious than in previous seasons.

You see the ILI bit? Yeah.

Sometimes it would serve you better to keep your mouth should, rather than open it and confirm everyone's suspicions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:13:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:31:27 PM
Let's use Belgium as an example

https://www.healthybelgium.be/en/health-status/communicable-diseases/influenza-and-influenza-like-illness#:~:text=Of%20the%20hospitalized%20cases%2C%2013,average%20compared%20to%20previous%20seasons.

On average, around 600,000 people are affected by influenza-like illness (ILI) each year in Belgium, i.e., about 5% of the total population. About 50-60% of these cases are actual influenza cases.
While ILI is in most cases a benign illness, about 2% to 3% of influenza cases require hospitalization. Of the hospitalized cases, 13% develop severe complications, including 6% who die in the course of hospital stay; usually more than 80% of these deaths occur in people of 65 years and over.
The Belgian flu epidemic of the 2018-2019 season lasted 8 weeks, which was average compared to previous seasons. An estimated 506,000 Belgians consulted their GP for flu-like symptoms. The severity indicators indicated that this flu epidemic was relatively no more serious than in previous seasons.

An estimated 600k people get a flu every year.
2-3% get hospitalised - take 3% - that's 18,000
6% of those hospitalised will die - that's 1,080 deaths a year from flu in Belgium
A fatality rate of 0.17% of those est infected

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/belgium/

The second wave currently in Belgium at the minute.
165,880 positive cases from 1 Aug to present
506 deaths from 1 Aug to present
A fatality rate of 0.31% of those with positive tests

It's too easy this carry on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:17:14 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:13:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:31:27 PM
Let's use Belgium as an example

https://www.healthybelgium.be/en/health-status/communicable-diseases/influenza-and-influenza-like-illness#:~:text=Of%20the%20hospitalized%20cases%2C%2013,average%20compared%20to%20previous%20seasons.

On average, around 600,000 people are affected by influenza-like illness (ILI) each year in Belgium, i.e., about 5% of the total population. About 50-60% of these cases are actual influenza cases.
While ILI is in most cases a benign illness, about 2% to 3% of influenza cases require hospitalization. Of the hospitalized cases, 13% develop severe complications, including 6% who die in the course of hospital stay; usually more than 80% of these deaths occur in people of 65 years and over.
The Belgian flu epidemic of the 2018-2019 season lasted 8 weeks, which was average compared to previous seasons. An estimated 506,000 Belgians consulted their GP for flu-like symptoms. The severity indicators indicated that this flu epidemic was relatively no more serious than in previous seasons.

An estimated 600k people get a flu every year.
2-3% get hospitalised - take 3% - that's 18,000
6% of those hospitalised will die - that's 1,080 deaths a year from flu in Belgium
A fatality rate of 0.17% of those est infected

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/belgium/

The second wave currently in Belgium at the minute.
165,880 positive cases from 1 Aug to present
506 deaths from 1 Aug to present
A fatality rate of 0.31% of those with positive tests

It's too easy this carry on.

Whatever way you want to read it, it doesn't impact the fatality rate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:19:38 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 15, 2020, 04:05:59 PM
I would agree with you but they haven't and the health service up north is now going to be in a very precarious position if something drastic is not done asap. I.e. lockdown

Yes but this happens yearly with seasonal flu.

At what point do we say that deaths associated with Covid is going to be an acceptable risk much like we do with seasonal flu?

The problem with lockdown is the consequences of it are wide and far reaching for lots of people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 15, 2020, 04:25:55 PM
I understand what you are saying but it is not just about deaths. It's about health service capacity.

I haven't read all your links but do we annually reach capacity? I wouldn't have thought so. I would also imagine that year or year you would have a worst case and a best case.

This is growing unbounded as it stands.

Lockdown is a last resort. It absolutely has to be and it's indicative of failures on many many levels but that is where we are.

Broadly I agree with you. People can be a bit knee jerk on things. There are areas arguably I wouldn't shut and they have however something drastic needs done at present.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:33:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 15, 2020, 04:25:55 PM
I understand what you are saying but it is not just about deaths. It's about health service capacity.

I haven't read all your links but do we annually reach capacity? I wouldn't have thought so. I would also imagine that year or year you would have a worst case and a best case.

This is growing unbounded as it stands.

Lockdown is a last resort. It absolutely has to be and it's indicative of failures on many many levels but that is where we are.

Broadly I agree with you. People can be a bit knee jerk on things. There are areas arguably I wouldn't shut and they have however something drastic needs done at present.

10 years ago but here is one.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/northern-ireland-hospitals-critical-beds-crisis-after-flu-patients-swamp-unit-28580481.html

Look we are where we are. I don't have any broad objections to lockdown at this point but lockdowns can't be a long term solution.

The reason a lockdown is in place is that government didn't plan and cater for what they should have known as inevitable. Surely the past 6 months should have been focused towards increasing capacity and resources in the health system? It's the easy way out to blame the people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 15, 2020, 04:39:33 PM
I don't disagree with parts of what you're saying. To be honest up north the state of the health service even compared to the rest of the uk illustrates what a failure our government are. The last six months probably a) reflects lack of money and b) also a failure at govern,ent layer  however correcting the nhs is a job of huge proportions.

I also am not a fan of blame him or blame her etc as they didn't wear a mask. It's tabloid behaviour.

Things like university halls opening when all classes are online is the biggest failure of all imo. It's blame the masses when the people at the top could do so much more.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:51:00 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 15, 2020, 04:39:33 PM
I don't disagree with parts of what you're saying. To be honest up north the state of the health service even compared to the rest of the uk illustrates what a failure our government are. The last six months probably a) reflects lack of money and b) also a failure at govern,ent layer  however correcting the nhs is a job of huge proportions.

I also am not a fan of blame him or blame her etc as they didn't wear a mask. It's tabloid behaviour.

Things like university halls opening when all classes are online is the biggest failure of all imo. It's blame the masses when the people at the top could do so much more.

I'd agree.

The horse has bolted so to speak in terms of the levels of transmission.

It seems to be more a case of a failing health service at present more than anything.

We are not seeing anything close to the levels of deaths we saw in the first wave yet and if that trend continues then living with Covid is something we are capable of doing until such time as science gets us answer. I would be of the opinion that Covid probably won't be that much of a factor by the time science have something though.

If the fatality rates continue to fall or stabilise then there is no reason why we should be going into another lockdown after this. The priority has to be improving the health system and building capacity for us to live with this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:51:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:17:14 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:13:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:31:27 PM
Let's use Belgium as an example

https://www.healthybelgium.be/en/health-status/communicable-diseases/influenza-and-influenza-like-illness#:~:text=Of%20the%20hospitalized%20cases%2C%2013,average%20compared%20to%20previous%20seasons.

On average, around 600,000 people are affected by influenza-like illness (ILI) each year in Belgium, i.e., about 5% of the total population. About 50-60% of these cases are actual influenza cases.
While ILI is in most cases a benign illness, about 2% to 3% of influenza cases require hospitalization. Of the hospitalized cases, 13% develop severe complications, including 6% who die in the course of hospital stay; usually more than 80% of these deaths occur in people of 65 years and over.
The Belgian flu epidemic of the 2018-2019 season lasted 8 weeks, which was average compared to previous seasons. An estimated 506,000 Belgians consulted their GP for flu-like symptoms. The severity indicators indicated that this flu epidemic was relatively no more serious than in previous seasons.

An estimated 600k people get a flu every year.
2-3% get hospitalised - take 3% - that's 18,000
6% of those hospitalised will die - that's 1,080 deaths a year from flu in Belgium
A fatality rate of 0.17% of those est infected

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/belgium/

The second wave currently in Belgium at the minute.
165,880 positive cases from 1 Aug to present
506 deaths from 1 Aug to present
A fatality rate of 0.31% of those with positive tests

It's too easy this carry on.

Whatever way you want to read it, it doesn't impact the fatality rate.

It shows that Covid has killed roughly the same number of people in 10 weeks as the flu did in a year.

And, given that YOU produced this incredible dissertation, with the intention of proving the opposite, makes you look like an absolute plonker.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 15, 2020, 04:55:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:51:00 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 15, 2020, 04:39:33 PM
I don't disagree with parts of what you're saying. To be honest up north the state of the health service even compared to the rest of the uk illustrates what a failure our government are. The last six months probably a) reflects lack of money and b) also a failure at govern,ent layer  however correcting the nhs is a job of huge proportions.

I also am not a fan of blame him or blame her etc as they didn't wear a mask. It's tabloid behaviour.

Things like university halls opening when all classes are online is the biggest failure of all imo. It's blame the masses when the people at the top could do so much more.

I'd agree.

The horse has bolted so to speak in terms of the levels of transmission.

It seems to be more a case of a failing health service at present more than anything.

We are not seeing anything close to the levels of deaths we saw in the first wave yet and if that trend continues then living with Covid is something we are capable of doing until such time as science gets us answer. I would be of the opinion that Covid probably won't be that much of a factor by the time science have something though.

If the fatality rates continue to fall or stabilise then there is no reason why we should be going into another lockdown after this. The priority has to be improving the health system and building capacity for us to live with this.

Fatalities are going to crank up though.

The health system being fixed could take a lifetime. I would be concerned over what the tories will do next with it. I could see blame being fired at it when they are at fault.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:55:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:51:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:17:14 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:13:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:31:27 PM
Let's use Belgium as an example

https://www.healthybelgium.be/en/health-status/communicable-diseases/influenza-and-influenza-like-illness#:~:text=Of%20the%20hospitalized%20cases%2C%2013,average%20compared%20to%20previous%20seasons.

On average, around 600,000 people are affected by influenza-like illness (ILI) each year in Belgium, i.e., about 5% of the total population. About 50-60% of these cases are actual influenza cases.
While ILI is in most cases a benign illness, about 2% to 3% of influenza cases require hospitalization. Of the hospitalized cases, 13% develop severe complications, including 6% who die in the course of hospital stay; usually more than 80% of these deaths occur in people of 65 years and over.
The Belgian flu epidemic of the 2018-2019 season lasted 8 weeks, which was average compared to previous seasons. An estimated 506,000 Belgians consulted their GP for flu-like symptoms. The severity indicators indicated that this flu epidemic was relatively no more serious than in previous seasons.

An estimated 600k people get a flu every year.
2-3% get hospitalised - take 3% - that's 18,000
6% of those hospitalised will die - that's 1,080 deaths a year from flu in Belgium
A fatality rate of 0.17% of those est infected

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/belgium/

The second wave currently in Belgium at the minute.
165,880 positive cases from 1 Aug to present
506 deaths from 1 Aug to present
A fatality rate of 0.31% of those with positive tests

It's too easy this carry on.

Whatever way you want to read it, it doesn't impact the fatality rate.

It shows that Covid has killed roughly the same number of people in 10 weeks as the flu did in a year.

And, given that YOU produced this incredible dissertation, with the intention of proving the opposite, makes you look like an absolute plonker.

Flu is seasonal.

So it basically kills at a similar enough rate with probably a similar demograph once you take the first wave out of the equation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:58:45 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 15, 2020, 04:55:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:51:00 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 15, 2020, 04:39:33 PM
I don't disagree with parts of what you're saying. To be honest up north the state of the health service even compared to the rest of the uk illustrates what a failure our government are. The last six months probably a) reflects lack of money and b) also a failure at govern,ent layer  however correcting the nhs is a job of huge proportions.

I also am not a fan of blame him or blame her etc as they didn't wear a mask. It's tabloid behaviour.

Things like university halls opening when all classes are online is the biggest failure of all imo. It's blame the masses when the people at the top could do so much more.

I'd agree.

The horse has bolted so to speak in terms of the levels of transmission.

It seems to be more a case of a failing health service at present more than anything.

We are not seeing anything close to the levels of deaths we saw in the first wave yet and if that trend continues then living with Covid is something we are capable of doing until such time as science gets us answer. I would be of the opinion that Covid probably won't be that much of a factor by the time science have something though.

If the fatality rates continue to fall or stabilise then there is no reason why we should be going into another lockdown after this. The priority has to be improving the health system and building capacity for us to live with this.

Fatalities are going to crank up though.

The health system being fixed could take a lifetime. I would be concerned over what the tories will do next with it. I could see blame being fired at it when they are at fault.

In raw numbers they probably will but I wouldn't expect huge  rises in death rates, if you look all across Europe, fatality rates are dropping by double digit multiples compared to the first wave.

Right now capacity is the issue.

We will see though, what's done is done and it just remains to be seen at what cost. I think we are all hoping that we come out of this the right side as it will give us hope for the future.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:55:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:51:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:17:14 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:13:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:31:27 PM
Let's use Belgium as an example

https://www.healthybelgium.be/en/health-status/communicable-diseases/influenza-and-influenza-like-illness#:~:text=Of%20the%20hospitalized%20cases%2C%2013,average%20compared%20to%20previous%20seasons.

On average, around 600,000 people are affected by influenza-like illness (ILI) each year in Belgium, i.e., about 5% of the total population. About 50-60% of these cases are actual influenza cases.
While ILI is in most cases a benign illness, about 2% to 3% of influenza cases require hospitalization. Of the hospitalized cases, 13% develop severe complications, including 6% who die in the course of hospital stay; usually more than 80% of these deaths occur in people of 65 years and over.
The Belgian flu epidemic of the 2018-2019 season lasted 8 weeks, which was average compared to previous seasons. An estimated 506,000 Belgians consulted their GP for flu-like symptoms. The severity indicators indicated that this flu epidemic was relatively no more serious than in previous seasons.

An estimated 600k people get a flu every year.
2-3% get hospitalised - take 3% - that's 18,000
6% of those hospitalised will die - that's 1,080 deaths a year from flu in Belgium
A fatality rate of 0.17% of those est infected

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/belgium/

The second wave currently in Belgium at the minute.
165,880 positive cases from 1 Aug to present
506 deaths from 1 Aug to present
A fatality rate of 0.31% of those with positive tests

It's too easy this carry on.

Whatever way you want to read it, it doesn't impact the fatality rate.

It shows that Covid has killed roughly the same number of people in 10 weeks as the flu did in a year.

And, given that YOU produced this incredible dissertation, with the intention of proving the opposite, makes you look like an absolute plonker.

Flu is seasonal.

So it basically kills at a similar enough rate with probably a similar demograph once you take the first wave out of the equation.

Throw the shovel out of the hole lad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on October 15, 2020, 05:46:08 PM
Will Angelo get a second series?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 05:50:16 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:55:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:51:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:17:14 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:13:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:31:27 PM
Let's use Belgium as an example

https://www.healthybelgium.be/en/health-status/communicable-diseases/influenza-and-influenza-like-illness#:~:text=Of%20the%20hospitalized%20cases%2C%2013,average%20compared%20to%20previous%20seasons.

On average, around 600,000 people are affected by influenza-like illness (ILI) each year in Belgium, i.e., about 5% of the total population. About 50-60% of these cases are actual influenza cases.
While ILI is in most cases a benign illness, about 2% to 3% of influenza cases require hospitalization. Of the hospitalized cases, 13% develop severe complications, including 6% who die in the course of hospital stay; usually more than 80% of these deaths occur in people of 65 years and over.
The Belgian flu epidemic of the 2018-2019 season lasted 8 weeks, which was average compared to previous seasons. An estimated 506,000 Belgians consulted their GP for flu-like symptoms. The severity indicators indicated that this flu epidemic was relatively no more serious than in previous seasons.

An estimated 600k people get a flu every year.
2-3% get hospitalised - take 3% - that's 18,000
6% of those hospitalised will die - that's 1,080 deaths a year from flu in Belgium
A fatality rate of 0.17% of those est infected

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/belgium/

The second wave currently in Belgium at the minute.
165,880 positive cases from 1 Aug to present
506 deaths from 1 Aug to present
A fatality rate of 0.31% of those with positive tests

It's too easy this carry on.

Whatever way you want to read it, it doesn't impact the fatality rate.

It shows that Covid has killed roughly the same number of people in 10 weeks as the flu did in a year.

And, given that YOU produced this incredible dissertation, with the intention of proving the opposite, makes you look like an absolute plonker.

Flu is seasonal.

So it basically kills at a similar enough rate with probably a similar demograph once you take the first wave out of the equation.

Throw the shovel out of the hole lad.

You're the one here trying to say definitively that effects of Covid are much more severe on someone who contracts it than a flu.

We simply can't qualify that yet but it didn't stop you trying to claim otherwise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 15, 2020, 05:57:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 05:50:16 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:55:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:51:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:17:14 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:13:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:31:27 PM
Let's use Belgium as an example

https://www.healthybelgium.be/en/health-status/communicable-diseases/influenza-and-influenza-like-illness#:~:text=Of%20the%20hospitalized%20cases%2C%2013,average%20compared%20to%20previous%20seasons.

On average, around 600,000 people are affected by influenza-like illness (ILI) each year in Belgium, i.e., about 5% of the total population. About 50-60% of these cases are actual influenza cases.
While ILI is in most cases a benign illness, about 2% to 3% of influenza cases require hospitalization. Of the hospitalized cases, 13% develop severe complications, including 6% who die in the course of hospital stay; usually more than 80% of these deaths occur in people of 65 years and over.
The Belgian flu epidemic of the 2018-2019 season lasted 8 weeks, which was average compared to previous seasons. An estimated 506,000 Belgians consulted their GP for flu-like symptoms. The severity indicators indicated that this flu epidemic was relatively no more serious than in previous seasons.

An estimated 600k people get a flu every year.
2-3% get hospitalised - take 3% - that's 18,000
6% of those hospitalised will die - that's 1,080 deaths a year from flu in Belgium
A fatality rate of 0.17% of those est infected

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/belgium/

The second wave currently in Belgium at the minute.
165,880 positive cases from 1 Aug to present
506 deaths from 1 Aug to present
A fatality rate of 0.31% of those with positive tests

It's too easy this carry on.

Whatever way you want to read it, it doesn't impact the fatality rate.

It shows that Covid has killed roughly the same number of people in 10 weeks as the flu did in a year.

And, given that YOU produced this incredible dissertation, with the intention of proving the opposite, makes you look like an absolute plonker.

Flu is seasonal.

So it basically kills at a similar enough rate with probably a similar demograph once you take the first wave out of the equation.

Throw the shovel out of the hole lad.

You're the one here trying to say definitively that effects of Covid are much more severe on someone who contracts it than a flu.

We simply can't qualify that yet but it didn't stop you trying to claim otherwise.

Seriously.  Stop.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 05:58:44 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 05:57:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 05:50:16 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:55:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:51:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:17:14 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:13:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:31:27 PM
Let's use Belgium as an example

https://www.healthybelgium.be/en/health-status/communicable-diseases/influenza-and-influenza-like-illness#:~:text=Of%20the%20hospitalized%20cases%2C%2013,average%20compared%20to%20previous%20seasons.

On average, around 600,000 people are affected by influenza-like illness (ILI) each year in Belgium, i.e., about 5% of the total population. About 50-60% of these cases are actual influenza cases.
While ILI is in most cases a benign illness, about 2% to 3% of influenza cases require hospitalization. Of the hospitalized cases, 13% develop severe complications, including 6% who die in the course of hospital stay; usually more than 80% of these deaths occur in people of 65 years and over.
The Belgian flu epidemic of the 2018-2019 season lasted 8 weeks, which was average compared to previous seasons. An estimated 506,000 Belgians consulted their GP for flu-like symptoms. The severity indicators indicated that this flu epidemic was relatively no more serious than in previous seasons.

An estimated 600k people get a flu every year.
2-3% get hospitalised - take 3% - that's 18,000
6% of those hospitalised will die - that's 1,080 deaths a year from flu in Belgium
A fatality rate of 0.17% of those est infected

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/belgium/

The second wave currently in Belgium at the minute.
165,880 positive cases from 1 Aug to present
506 deaths from 1 Aug to present
A fatality rate of 0.31% of those with positive tests

It's too easy this carry on.

Whatever way you want to read it, it doesn't impact the fatality rate.

It shows that Covid has killed roughly the same number of people in 10 weeks as the flu did in a year.

And, given that YOU produced this incredible dissertation, with the intention of proving the opposite, makes you look like an absolute plonker.

Flu is seasonal.

So it basically kills at a similar enough rate with probably a similar demograph once you take the first wave out of the equation.

Throw the shovel out of the hole lad.

You're the one here trying to say definitively that effects of Covid are much more severe on someone who contracts it than a flu.

We simply can't qualify that yet but it didn't stop you trying to claim otherwise.

Seriously.  Stop.

I'll show you some mercy so.

I'm sure the WHO will be looking for you shortly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 15, 2020, 06:08:47 PM

   https://www.ft.com/content/3387ffe1-f9aa-4751-b6ac-e09f256d7966

   Long Covid' symptoms can last for months | Free to Read
Disorders in brain, lungs, heart, gut, liver and skin often persist, researchers say


Clive Cookson in London 18 HOURS AGO

Covid-19 has left many patients with debilitating, varied symptoms months after the initial infection has cleared, raising fears about the long-term health costs of the pandemic.

Patients infected in the first wave of the virus have continued to suffer disorders in the brain, lungs, heart, gut, liver, skin and other parts of the body, according to a new review of the disease conducted by the UK National Institute for Health Research.

Some of the symptoms of Long Covid, as the condition is often known, can be seriously debilitating, like "brain fog" and extreme exhaustion. Other consequences are milder, such as hair loss and the inability to taste or smell.

"A common theme is that symptoms arise in one physiological system then abate, only for symptoms to arise in a different system," the NIHR report said. The review aims to increase awareness of the condition among health workers, while stimulating further research since so little is known today about the prevalence or the causes of Long Covid.


Data from King's College London's Covid Symptom Study app, with 4m regular contributors, suggests that up to 20 per cent of infections lead to complications lasting longer than a month © Oli Scarff/AFP via Getty
A study in Italy found that 87 per cent of people discharged from a Rome hospital were still experiencing at least one symptom two months after the onset of Covid-19. At least 55 per cent had three or more symptoms including fatigue, breathing difficulties and pain in joints and chest.

Public Health England said last month that around 10 per cent of 'mild' Covid-19 cases who were not admitted to hospital reported symptoms lasting more than four weeks. A separate study by King's College London, using data from its Covid Symptom Study app with 4m regular contributors, suggested that between 10 per cent and 20 per cent of infections led to complications lasting longer than a month.

If around 10 per cent of people with confirmed Covid-19 will suffer from Long Covid, that would mean more than 3.8m people worldwide and more than 65,000 patients in the UK. But the NIHR researchers said it was too soon to give a reliable estimate of prevalence.

"The overwhelming message is that this is not a linear condition," said Elaine Maxwell, lead author of the NIHR report. "Many [patients] suffer a rollercoaster of symptoms moving around the body, from which they do not recover."

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There are some parallels between Covid-19 today and the start of the Aids epidemic in the 1980s, according to Philip Pearson, a respiratory physician at Northampton General Hospital and a member of the NIHR study group. "As we understood HIV infection better, we found out about all the different possible presentations of disease." he said. "Right now, as we try to define our terms, this feels like HIV research was then."

Long Covid's wide and fluctuating range of symptoms suggested that it was the result of several overlapping but different syndromes, including postviral fatigue and permanent organ damage, the NIHR report said.

"It feels as if this coronavirus is behaving quite differently to other viral infections like flu," Dr Pearson added

Despite all the uncertainties, the NIHR authors called for a working definition of Long Covid to be agreed as soon as possible. "The absence of a definition may impact the ability of patients to have their symptoms and experiences properly recognised and treated by healthcare services, which can in turn have a further psychological impact, especially for non-hospitalised patients who were never formally diagnosed."

In reaction to growing concerns about Long Covid, the UK's NHS last week committed £10m to set up a regional network of Long Covid clinics to assess patients' physical, cognitive and psychological condition and, if appropriate, refer them for specialist treatment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 15, 2020, 06:11:29 PM
1,205 cases
3 deaths

Holohan: "The number of hospitalisations is increasing faster than the exponential growth modelling predicted. That indicates a rapidly deteriorating disease trajectory nationally."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 15, 2020, 06:40:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 15, 2020, 06:11:29 PM
1,205 cases
3 deaths

Holohan: "The number of hospitalisations is increasing faster than the exponential growth modelling predicted. That indicates a rapidly deteriorating disease trajectory nationally."

It is surprising that Louth is relatively low, given that Monaghan, Meath and Newry and Mourne have relatively high numbers.
Dublin is only in the middle of the 26 counties now, although it in turn contains high and low areas.
(https://img.rasset.ie/00157f32-614.jpg?ratio=0.95)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 15, 2020, 06:51:36 PM
There were no ICU beds available in Cork Hospitals last night and now I see Portlaoise can't take any new patients as they've had to close a ward due to Covid among staff.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 15, 2020, 07:03:17 PM
Anyone ever figure out why Covid isn't growing exponentially in the US? Seems to be following a linear progression which goes against what is currently thought about the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 07:08:09 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 15, 2020, 07:03:17 PM
Anyone ever figure out why Covid isn't growing exponentially in the US? Seems to be following a linear progression which goes against what is currently thought about the virus.

Is it a state by state thing where peaks and valleys in different states at different times?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 15, 2020, 07:49:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 07:08:09 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 15, 2020, 07:03:17 PM
Anyone ever figure out why Covid isn't growing exponentially in the US? Seems to be following a linear progression which goes against what is currently thought about the virus.

Is it a state by state thing where peaks and valleys in different states at different times?

I find myself agreeing with this, which is unexpected.
The US is so big that it is a series of local situations, especially as every place has different regulations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 15, 2020, 09:06:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 05:58:44 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 05:57:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 05:50:16 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:55:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:51:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:17:14 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 15, 2020, 04:13:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:31:27 PM
Let's use Belgium as an example

https://www.healthybelgium.be/en/health-status/communicable-diseases/influenza-and-influenza-like-illness#:~:text=Of%20the%20hospitalized%20cases%2C%2013,average%20compared%20to%20previous%20seasons.

On average, around 600,000 people are affected by influenza-like illness (ILI) each year in Belgium, i.e., about 5% of the total population. About 50-60% of these cases are actual influenza cases.
While ILI is in most cases a benign illness, about 2% to 3% of influenza cases require hospitalization. Of the hospitalized cases, 13% develop severe complications, including 6% who die in the course of hospital stay; usually more than 80% of these deaths occur in people of 65 years and over.
The Belgian flu epidemic of the 2018-2019 season lasted 8 weeks, which was average compared to previous seasons. An estimated 506,000 Belgians consulted their GP for flu-like symptoms. The severity indicators indicated that this flu epidemic was relatively no more serious than in previous seasons.

An estimated 600k people get a flu every year.
2-3% get hospitalised - take 3% - that's 18,000
6% of those hospitalised will die - that's 1,080 deaths a year from flu in Belgium
A fatality rate of 0.17% of those est infected

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/belgium/

The second wave currently in Belgium at the minute.
165,880 positive cases from 1 Aug to present
506 deaths from 1 Aug to present
A fatality rate of 0.31% of those with positive tests

It's too easy this carry on.

Whatever way you want to read it, it doesn't impact the fatality rate.

It shows that Covid has killed roughly the same number of people in 10 weeks as the flu did in a year.

And, given that YOU produced this incredible dissertation, with the intention of proving the opposite, makes you look like an absolute plonker.

Flu is seasonal.

So it basically kills at a similar enough rate with probably a similar demograph once you take the first wave out of the equation.

Throw the shovel out of the hole lad.

You're the one here trying to say definitively that effects of Covid are much more severe on someone who contracts it than a flu.

We simply can't qualify that yet but it didn't stop you trying to claim otherwise.

Seriously.  Stop.

I'll show you some mercy so.

I'm sure the WHO will be looking for you shortly.

Lol

Whatever helps you sleep champ
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 16, 2020, 02:16:05 AM
Quote from: trileacman on October 15, 2020, 07:03:17 PM
Anyone ever figure out why Covid isn't growing exponentially in the US? Seems to be following a linear progression which goes against what is currently thought about the virus.

Not sure, but it's possible this might have something to do with it:

"Hospitals have instead been ordered to send all COVID-19 patient information to a central database in Washington DC.

This will have a range of likely knock-on effects. For starters, the new database will not be available to the public, prompting inevitable questions over the accuracy and transparency of data which will now be interpreted and shared by the White House"

https://theconversation.com/us-coronavirus-data-will-now-go-straight-to-the-white-house-heres-what-this-means-for-the-world-142814 (https://theconversation.com/us-coronavirus-data-will-now-go-straight-to-the-white-house-heres-what-this-means-for-the-world-142814)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bigfrank on October 16, 2020, 09:50:52 AM
Do the new restrictions prohibit playing golf as visitors in both the north and south,ie members only and no travelling to courses you don't regularly play as a one off
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on October 16, 2020, 10:16:53 AM
Quote from: trileacman on October 15, 2020, 07:03:17 PM
Anyone ever figure out why Covid isn't growing exponentially in the US? Seems to be following a linear progression which goes against what is currently thought about the virus.

I suspect it's because it's still warm in large areas over there. I expect the muck to hit the fan all over the States when winter sets in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 10:22:35 AM
Is obesity a huge problem in the US with deaths?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 16, 2020, 10:34:37 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 10:22:35 AM
Is obesity a huge problem in the US with deaths?

I would imagine it's a factor in every country. As is smoking and diet. No Government will ever tell you to stop consuming though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 10:36:24 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 16, 2020, 10:34:37 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 10:22:35 AM
Is obesity a huge problem in the US with deaths?

I would imagine it's a factor in every country. As is smoking and diet. No Government will ever tell you to stop consuming though.

But America has a huge obesity problem in contrast to other countries.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2020, 11:49:33 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 10:36:24 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 16, 2020, 10:34:37 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 10:22:35 AM
Is obesity a huge problem in the US with deaths?

I would imagine it's a factor in every country. As is smoking and diet. No Government will ever tell you to stop consuming though.

But America has a huge obesity problem in contrast to other countries.

Have you walked around any cities lately in Ireland? There are some fat shits about!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 12:02:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2020, 11:49:33 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 10:36:24 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 16, 2020, 10:34:37 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 10:22:35 AM
Is obesity a huge problem in the US with deaths?

I would imagine it's a factor in every country. As is smoking and diet. No Government will ever tell you to stop consuming though.

But America has a huge obesity problem in contrast to other countries.

Have you walked around any cities lately in Ireland? There are some fat shits about!

There are but not to American levels.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 16, 2020, 12:11:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2020, 11:49:33 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 10:36:24 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 16, 2020, 10:34:37 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 10:22:35 AM
Is obesity a huge problem in the US with deaths?

I would imagine it's a factor in every country. As is smoking and diet. No Government will ever tell you to stop consuming though.

But America has a huge obesity problem in contrast to other countries.

Have you walked around any cities lately in Ireland? There are some fat shits about!

;D ;D ;D ;D

In all seriousness though, it's actually scandalous that people are relying on masks and do they work, don't they work. Are they even medical grade for Christ sake then ignoring even other bit of useful information like washing the hands and keeping out of the way.

The Government message should be, get yourself out there walking at a minimum. Best way to defeat a virus is by having a strong immune system to begin with. That is true herd immunity.....for want of a better phrase.

Unfortunately the magic pill, quick fix seems more in vogue. People need to start to take better care of themselves on the whole. The Western Governments have been warning of a health pandemics for sometime considering the diets, social habits, smoking habits of it's citizens. Covid 19 is merely ruthlessly exposing the warnings we have heard for years now preying on the weak (majorly).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 12:20:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 16, 2020, 12:11:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2020, 11:49:33 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 10:36:24 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 16, 2020, 10:34:37 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 10:22:35 AM
Is obesity a huge problem in the US with deaths?

I would imagine it's a factor in every country. As is smoking and diet. No Government will ever tell you to stop consuming though.

But America has a huge obesity problem in contrast to other countries.

Have you walked around any cities lately in Ireland? There are some fat shits about!

;D ;D ;D ;D

In all seriousness though, it's actually scandalous that people are relying on masks and do they work, don't they work. Are they even medical grade for Christ sake then ignoring even other bit of useful information like washing the hands and keeping out of the way.

The Government message should be, get yourself out there walking at a minimum. Best way to defeat a virus is by having a strong immune system to begin with. That is true herd immunity.....for want of a better phrase.

Unfortunately the magic pill, quick fix seems more in vogue. People need to start to take better care of themselves on the whole. The Western Governments have been warning of a health pandemics for sometime considering the diets, social habits, smoking habits of it's citizens. Covid 19 is merely ruthlessly exposing the warnings we have heard for years now preying on the weak (majorly).

Lockdowns and restrictions are tantamount to bad physical and mental health practices.

The most importance metric governments should be looking at are the excess death figures that have taken place since the end of the first wave and that should be what dictates policy going forward.

I know there's a big difference between China and the western world but the Chinese had a hospital constructed within a number of weeks to cater for Covid. Surely there is some fix governments can invest money into toward catering for the surge in Covid cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 12:36:28 PM
Just out of interest, have things reached this level in hospitals down south yet?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/flu-and-bed-shortage-responsible-for-record-trolley-numbers-says-taoiseach-1.4131634
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2020, 12:47:29 PM
so thats another nhs fix going forward...

Improve Cancer screenings, bring down waiting times and improve technology for early detections

Reduce call out times for ambulance services

Availability to new and improved drugs

More ICU and beds in general

More nursing and doctors, and pay the nursing staff what they deserve (will increase numbers)

Better mental health services, which seems to be at breaking point and not getting better

Better local surgery appointments, there seems to be a maze to go through to get an appointment, probably due to a lot of reasons which need sorting out first..

That's just a few things that need to be sorted before we go all in on the Covid thingy at the minute....

So, leaves me with one question, how will be paid for? With job loses going through the roof soon it will only go one way and that's private, a lot of this stuff will be farmed out..

So many other areas of medical services that people took for granted can not be carried out, eye clinics are for emergency only as is the ENT department, with no dates available at all.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 12:51:05 PM
Edwin Potts on TalkBack saying CMO has evidence linked to significant spread through GAA after parties
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on October 16, 2020, 12:58:22 PM
https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1171882/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 16, 2020, 12:58:55 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 16, 2020, 12:58:22 PM
https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1171882/

These lads are mad looking it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 01:13:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 12:51:05 PM
Edwin Potts on TalkBack saying CMO has evidence linked to significant spread through GAA after parties

What amazing detective powers. There is no doubt that many people have let the GAA down. The worst part of the 26 counties is in Cavan around Ballyjamesduff, not close to the border but close to Crosserlough. The closure of businesses throughout Cavan can be laid at the door of irresponsible people in those parts.

The intercounty season shouldn't lead to this, unless Fermanagh win Ulster.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 16, 2020, 01:25:28 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 01:13:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 12:51:05 PM
Edwin Potts on TalkBack saying CMO has evidence linked to significant spread through GAA after parties

What amazing detective powers. There is no doubt that many people have let the GAA down. The worst part of the 26 counties is in Cavan around Ballyjamesduff, not close to the border but close to Crosserlough. The closure of businesses throughout Cavan can be laid at the door of irresponsible people in those parts.

The intercounty season shouldn't lead to this, unless Fermanagh win Ulster.

It shouldn't be however a lot the men in suits making the decisions probably think club and Inter County is the same thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 16, 2020, 01:31:53 PM
Edwin wouldn't be the most impartial in the world so on things like this I am not sure how serious he can be taken. Did he say anything about sending a load of students into halls to not go to class?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on October 16, 2020, 01:35:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 01:13:25 PM
What amazing detective powers. There is no doubt that many people have let the GAA down. The worst part of the 26 counties is in Cavan around Ballyjamesduff, not close to the border but close to Crosserlough. The closure of businesses throughout Cavan can be laid at the door of irresponsible people in those parts.

Ballinagh, who won the intermediate, is much much worse. It's also within the Ballyjamesduff area.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 16, 2020, 02:11:48 PM
1299 cases in the north :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: currychip on October 16, 2020, 02:35:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 01:13:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 12:51:05 PM
Edwin Potts on TalkBack saying CMO has evidence linked to significant spread through GAA after parties

What amazing detective powers. There is no doubt that many people have let the GAA down. The worst part of the 26 counties is in Cavan around Ballyjamesduff, not close to the border but close to Crosserlough. The closure of businesses throughout Cavan can be laid at the door of irresponsible people in those parts.

The intercounty season shouldn't lead to this, unless Fermanagh win Ulster.


About Poots - I heard that and must say I get fed up with the lack of knowledge from interviewers to come back on the claims made.  As we know, Derry City & Strabane council areas have been the hotbeds of infection recently.  I don't recall any recent big GAA games in that council area, no big congregation of GAA supporters ignoring social distancing.  That would have been an easy response from Crawley, if he had bothered.  There have been widely publicised infractions in Slaughtneil, Dungannon and after a game in South Armagh.   Behaviour was unwise, at a minimum.  However, Poots, unchallenged, only laid the blame in one direction.

The only narrative around Covid and the GAA is negative.  I know in my Co Derry club we have been very compliant with all guidelines, consistently since returning to training and play.  Across the GAA there have been clear breaches but its an organisation with a very wide reach.  I just wish the good stuff would get a bit more airtime.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 16, 2020, 02:36:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 16, 2020, 02:11:48 PM
1299 cases in the north :(

Derry area is now 1,155.9 per 100K
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyroneman on October 16, 2020, 03:04:28 PM
So...just so I understad this correctly  - is a 'bubble' only applicable to indoor gatherings?

Outdoor meetings are no more than 6 people from 2 different households, but the household you meet with can change, so - Monday I could meet in the garden with household 1, Tuesday with household 2, wednesday with household 3 etc etc?

Is that correct, or is it that even outdoors is is supposed to be only with people in the same 'bubble' as me?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 03:09:23 PM
Quote from: five points on October 16, 2020, 01:35:49 PM
Ballinagh, who won the intermediate, is much much worse. It's also within the Ballyjamesduff area.

If I was Paddy Reilly, I wouldn't come back right now.

Quote from: currychip on October 16, 2020, 02:35:36 PM
About Poots - I heard that and must say I get fed up with the lack of knowledge from interviewers to come back on the claims made.  As we know, Derry City & Strabane council areas have been the hotbeds of infection recently.  I don't recall any recent big GAA games in that council area, no big congregation of GAA supporters ignoring social distancing.  That would have been an easy response from Crawley, if he had bothered.  There have been widely publicised infractions in Slaughtneil, Dungannon and after a game in South Armagh.

All the GAA supporters there are in Derry city put together could hardly start an outbreak.

Meanwhile in England, the ONS estimate that the number of infections grows by 9 per cent each day and it translates into a doubling in number in under one week
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 16, 2020, 03:13:17 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on October 16, 2020, 03:04:28 PM
So...just so I understad this correctly  - is a 'bubble' only applicable to indoor gatherings?

Outdoor meetings are no more than 6 people from 2 different households, but the household you meet with can change, so - Monday I could meet in the garden with household 1, Tuesday with household 2, wednesday with household 3 etc etc?

Is that correct, or is it that even outdoors is is supposed to be only with people in the same 'bubble' as me?

Is a bubble a support bubble? I.e. caring or something like that? I have wondered the same. It is really really unclear.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 03:36:18 PM
Quote from: currychip on October 16, 2020, 02:35:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 01:13:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 12:51:05 PM
Edwin Potts on TalkBack saying CMO has evidence linked to significant spread through GAA after parties

What amazing detective powers. There is no doubt that many people have let the GAA down. The worst part of the 26 counties is in Cavan around Ballyjamesduff, not close to the border but close to Crosserlough. The closure of businesses throughout Cavan can be laid at the door of irresponsible people in those parts.

The intercounty season shouldn't lead to this, unless Fermanagh win Ulster.


About Poots - I heard that and must say I get fed up with the lack of knowledge from interviewers to come back on the claims made.  As we know, Derry City & Strabane council areas have been the hotbeds of infection recently.  I don't recall any recent big GAA games in that council area, no big congregation of GAA supporters ignoring social distancing.  That would have been an easy response from Crawley, if he had bothered.  There have been widely publicised infractions in Slaughtneil, Dungannon and after a game in South Armagh.   Behaviour was unwise, at a minimum.  However, Poots, unchallenged, only laid the blame in one direction.

The only narrative around Covid and the GAA is negative.  I know in my Co Derry club we have been very compliant with all guidelines, consistently since returning to training and play.  Across the GAA there have been clear breaches but its an organisation with a very wide reach.  I just wish the good stuff would get a bit more airtime.

Yes I thought it could be challenged more myself, but also I don't think he suggested every outbreak was down to that, just some of the significant ones. The outbreaks here in Derry City certainly were not down to it, id love to start seeing the data because he clearly said MON and AF know the main sources-I suspect bars and parties in Derry City.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 16, 2020, 03:42:57 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 03:36:18 PM
Quote from: currychip on October 16, 2020, 02:35:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 01:13:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 12:51:05 PM
Edwin Potts on TalkBack saying CMO has evidence linked to significant spread through GAA after parties

What amazing detective powers. There is no doubt that many people have let the GAA down. The worst part of the 26 counties is in Cavan around Ballyjamesduff, not close to the border but close to Crosserlough. The closure of businesses throughout Cavan can be laid at the door of irresponsible people in those parts.

The intercounty season shouldn't lead to this, unless Fermanagh win Ulster.


About Poots - I heard that and must say I get fed up with the lack of knowledge from interviewers to come back on the claims made.  As we know, Derry City & Strabane council areas have been the hotbeds of infection recently.  I don't recall any recent big GAA games in that council area, no big congregation of GAA supporters ignoring social distancing.  That would have been an easy response from Crawley, if he had bothered.  There have been widely publicised infractions in Slaughtneil, Dungannon and after a game in South Armagh.   Behaviour was unwise, at a minimum.  However, Poots, unchallenged, only laid the blame in one direction.

The only narrative around Covid and the GAA is negative.  I know in my Co Derry club we have been very compliant with all guidelines, consistently since returning to training and play.  Across the GAA there have been clear breaches but its an organisation with a very wide reach.  I just wish the good stuff would get a bit more airtime.

Yes I thought it could be challenged more myself, but also I don't think he suggested every outbreak was down to that, just some of the significant ones. The outbreaks here in Derry City certainly were not down to it, id love to start seeing the data because he clearly said MON and AF know the main sources-I suspect bars and parties in Derry City.

What about that funfair on N. I execuitve land in Derry? Anything traced back to  that??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyroneman on October 16, 2020, 04:13:50 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 16, 2020, 03:13:17 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on October 16, 2020, 03:04:28 PM
So...just so I understad this correctly  - is a 'bubble' only applicable to indoor gatherings?

Outdoor meetings are no more than 6 people from 2 different households, but the household you meet with can change, so - Monday I could meet in the garden with household 1, Tuesday with household 2, wednesday with household 3 etc etc?

Is that correct, or is it that even outdoors is is supposed to be only with people in the same 'bubble' as me?

Is a bubble a support bubble? I.e. caring or something like that? I have wondered the same. It is really really unclear.

My understanding (and I should clarify - for the North only) is that a bubble is a group formed between 2 households, so they can meet indoors (subject to certain restrictions on numbers). Once formed it means that those 2 households cannot meet anyone else indoors, so any outbreak is limited as much as possible.

My question is whther this 'bubble' applies indoors only? ie can I meet a different group of folks  outdoors each day (subject to number limit of 6) and there is no 'bubble in that case.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 16, 2020, 04:21:20 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 16, 2020, 02:36:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 16, 2020, 02:11:48 PM
1299 cases in the north :(

Derry area is now 1,155.9 per 100K

Or 1 in 100. :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 04:41:25 PM
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/5/4/543f761bff4a9d196f3bdc0df6e17b5355a10acd.jpeg)

You'd expect the excess deaths level to rise again now.

What is an acceptable excess level of deaths though?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on October 16, 2020, 04:46:37 PM
QuoteYou'd expect the excess deaths level to rise again now.

What is an acceptable excess level of deaths though?

ZERO Covid and ZERO deaths appears to be the driver. Learn to live with it they said, flatten the curve they said. Coivd App they said, Coivd App they did. €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ health spend thay got €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ health spend they did? Golfgate they did.

Now they wonder why the citizens won't listen anymore.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 04:53:08 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 16, 2020, 04:46:37 PM
QuoteYou'd expect the excess deaths level to rise again now.

What is an acceptable excess level of deaths though?

ZERO Covid and ZERO deaths appears to be the driver. Learn to live with it they said, flatten the curve they said. Coivd App they said, Coivd App they did. €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ health spend thay got €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ health spend they did? Golfgate they did.

Now they wonder why the citizens won't listen anymore.

How much longer do they really envisage people living like this?

There doesn't seem to be any debate on whether lockdowns are a greater danger than the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 16, 2020, 04:55:14 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 04:41:25 PM
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/5/4/543f761bff4a9d196f3bdc0df6e17b5355a10acd.jpeg)

You'd expect the excess deaths level to rise again now.

What is an acceptable excess level of deaths though?

It's an uncomfortable question Angelo. A politician could never answer that, it would be career over.

They would have to say 0 which of course is possible as we seen during the summer etc...but highly, highly unlikely as we must return to 'normal'.

I don't think this thing is going anywhere, sooner or later Covid will and cannot dictate how we live and people will start to resent it taking precedence over other sicknesses.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 05:07:36 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 16, 2020, 04:55:14 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 04:41:25 PM
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/5/4/543f761bff4a9d196f3bdc0df6e17b5355a10acd.jpeg)

You'd expect the excess deaths level to rise again now.

What is an acceptable excess level of deaths though?

It's an uncomfortable question Angelo. A politician could never answer that, it would be career over.

They would have to say 0 which of course is possible as we seen during the summer etc...but highly, highly unlikely as we must return to 'normal'.

I don't think this thing is going anywhere, sooner or later Covid will and cannot dictate how we live and people will start to resent it taking precedence over other sicknesses.

I don't see us returning to the levels of excess deaths we saw in April/May. If we have a bad winter flu season we can see excess levels of deaths and we can accept the risk of that every year.

There has to be an acceptable level though when you consider the widespread impacts of lockdown and associated restrictions to the economy and society as a whole. It's time for leadership from governments on this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 16, 2020, 05:07:44 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 16, 2020, 04:46:37 PM
QuoteYou'd expect the excess deaths level to rise again now.

What is an acceptable excess level of deaths though?

ZERO Covid and ZERO deaths appears to be the driver. Learn to live with it they said, flatten the curve they said. Coivd App they said, Coivd App they did. €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ health spend thay got €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ health spend they did? Golfgate they did.

Now they wonder why the citizens won't listen anymore.
Unfortunately that's not the case at all

There is a strategy called Zero Covid which has been adopted extremely successfully in New Zealand yet it is totally dismissed here, most of all by those who want to "open it up ta fook"

But if you want to "open it up ta fook", Zero Covid surely is what you should be demanding!

New Zealand had 35k at the rugby last week

The Adelaide Oval looked fairly full this morning for the AFL preliminary final

It's almost like there are some people in Ireland - the sort who eulogise the moronic Sunetra Gupta and the moronic Martin Feeley, etc, and praise the failed Swedish strategy - who have a deep ideological attachment to the idea that this virus should kill a lot of people, that that's actually what they want!

Because I can't think of any other reason for why those who want the economy up and running would dismiss a strategy designed to do exactly that - as well as crush the virus

It's totally bizarre







Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 05:08:35 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 16, 2020, 04:46:37 PM
QuoteYou'd expect the excess deaths level to rise again now.

What is an acceptable excess level of deaths though?

ZERO Covid and ZERO deaths appears to be the driver. Learn to live with it they said, flatten the curve they said. Coivd App they said, Coivd App they did. €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ health spend thay got €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ health spend they did? Golfgate they did.

Now they wonder why the citizens won't listen anymore.

The citizens didn't listen in the first place, the basic message was behave responsibly and stay away from people. Instead a lot of people are either ignoring the rules entirely or looking for some loophole and then blaming the government. The excess deaths in the chart above are as bad as the worst year of the troubles, but a lot of people who have no problem giving out about the SF/IRA or the British Army/RUC/Collusion also have no problem in behaving in a way that causes these deaths. There will be more people dying needlessly in Derry in the next few weeks than died on bloody Sunday, but there will be no demand for an inquiry.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 05:14:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 05:08:35 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 16, 2020, 04:46:37 PM
QuoteYou'd expect the excess deaths level to rise again now.

What is an acceptable excess level of deaths though?

ZERO Covid and ZERO deaths appears to be the driver. Learn to live with it they said, flatten the curve they said. Coivd App they said, Coivd App they did. €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ health spend thay got €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ health spend they did? Golfgate they did.

Now they wonder why the citizens won't listen anymore.

The citizens didn't listen in the first place, the basic message was behave responsibly and stay away from people. Instead a lot of people are either ignoring the rules entirely or looking for some loophole and then blaming the government. The excess deaths in the chart above are as bad as the worst year of the troubles, but a lot of people who have no problem giving out about the SF/IRA or the British Army/RUC/Collusion also have no problem in behaving in a way that causes these deaths. There will be more people dying needlessly in Derry in the next few weeks than died on bloody Sunday, but there will be no demand for an inquiry.

It's easy to blame the people.

Issues should have been addressed during the first lockdown, the lack of foresight and planning has been criminal.

The excess levels of death primarily relate to April/May. Since June it has been fairly steady.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 16, 2020, 05:20:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 05:14:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 05:08:35 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 16, 2020, 04:46:37 PM
QuoteYou'd expect the excess deaths level to rise again now.

What is an acceptable excess level of deaths though?

ZERO Covid and ZERO deaths appears to be the driver. Learn to live with it they said, flatten the curve they said. Coivd App they said, Coivd App they did. €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ health spend thay got €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ health spend they did? Golfgate they did.

Now they wonder why the citizens won't listen anymore.

The citizens didn't listen in the first place, the basic message was behave responsibly and stay away from people. Instead a lot of people are either ignoring the rules entirely or looking for some loophole and then blaming the government. The excess deaths in the chart above are as bad as the worst year of the troubles, but a lot of people who have no problem giving out about the SF/IRA or the British Army/RUC/Collusion also have no problem in behaving in a way that causes these deaths. There will be more people dying needlessly in Derry in the next few weeks than died on bloody Sunday, but there will be no demand for an inquiry.

It's easy to blame the people.

Issues should have been addressed during the first lockdown, the lack of foresight and planning has been criminal.

The excess levels of death primarily relate to April/May. Since June it has been fairly steady.
Yet none of the right-wing "open it ta fook" crew have said anything about lack of foresight or planning

Perhaps because it is decades of right-wing politics which has led to a complete destruction of the capacity to plan or have anything beyond short term thinking

When Michael McDowell talks about how another lockdown would be disastrous, he should have the honesty to mention that it was decades of failed right-wing ideology promoted by the likes of him that led to the lack of ability to plan and put systems and capacity in place that would have avoided the need for another lockdown

In short, the likes of McDowell should get to fook
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 05:26:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 16, 2020, 05:20:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 05:14:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 05:08:35 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 16, 2020, 04:46:37 PM
QuoteYou'd expect the excess deaths level to rise again now.

What is an acceptable excess level of deaths though?

ZERO Covid and ZERO deaths appears to be the driver. Learn to live with it they said, flatten the curve they said. Coivd App they said, Coivd App they did. €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ health spend thay got €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ health spend they did? Golfgate they did.

Now they wonder why the citizens won't listen anymore.

The citizens didn't listen in the first place, the basic message was behave responsibly and stay away from people. Instead a lot of people are either ignoring the rules entirely or looking for some loophole and then blaming the government. The excess deaths in the chart above are as bad as the worst year of the troubles, but a lot of people who have no problem giving out about the SF/IRA or the British Army/RUC/Collusion also have no problem in behaving in a way that causes these deaths. There will be more people dying needlessly in Derry in the next few weeks than died on bloody Sunday, but there will be no demand for an inquiry.

It's easy to blame the people.

Issues should have been addressed during the first lockdown, the lack of foresight and planning has been criminal.

The excess levels of death primarily relate to April/May. Since June it has been fairly steady.
Yet none of the right-wing "open it ta fook" crew have said anything about lack of foresight or planning

Perhaps because it is decades of right-wing politics which has led to a complete destruction of the capacity to plan or have anything beyond short term thinking

When Michael McDowell talks about how another lockdown would be disastrous, he should have the honesty to mention that it was decades of failed right-wing ideology promoted by the likes of him that led to the lack of ability to plan and put systems and capacity in place that would have avoided the need for another lockdown

In short, the likes of McDowell should get to fook

Of course, the main problem that exists currently is a dysfunctional health service that cannot cope with the surge in cases.

We are seeing by the data lately that the fatality rates of the virus are dropping dramatically but the surge in new cases means the health system will struggle to cope. At the minute the bigger issue looks to be the health service rather than the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 16, 2020, 05:40:05 PM
The issues are

i) the virus
ii) the decades of mismanagement of the health service according to private sector "rational" principles such as public choice theory as promoted by the Koch Brothers-funded libertarian crackpot James Buchanan
iii) the failure to put in place a proper find, test, trace and isolate system
iv) The confusion and short termism and influence of the business lobby over policy
v) the individualistic "f**k society" culture promoted by right-wing loons like McDowell

In short, the virus is the problem, and right-wing politics is the problem

Norway, Finland and Denmark are managing their situations very well, perhaps because they didn't have governments full of Michael McDowells and media full of right-wing gobshites like Ian O'Doherty and David Quinn and Martin Feeley


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 05:57:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 16, 2020, 05:40:05 PM
The issues are

i) the virus
ii) the decades of mismanagement of the health service according to private sector "rational" principles such as public choice theory as promoted by the Koch Brothers-funded libertarian crackpot James Buchanan
iii) the failure to put in place a proper find, test, trace and isolate system
iv) The confusion and short termism and influence of the business lobby over policy
v) the individualistic "f**k society" culture promoted by right-wing loons like McDowell

In short, the virus is the problem, and right-wing politics is the problem

Norway, Finland and Denmark are managing their situations very well, perhaps because they didn't have governments full of Michael McDowells and media full of right-wing gobshites like Ian O'Doherty and David Quinn and Martin Feeley

The virus is here and it's not going away. People were invested in the firs lockdown, I don't think the same buy in exists this time around as governments failed to act on the time lockdown bought them to deal with the virus. If there was adequate healthcare resources and ICU beds available then we would not be in a second lockdown right now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:07:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 05:57:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 16, 2020, 05:40:05 PM
The issues are

i) the virus
ii) the decades of mismanagement of the health service according to private sector "rational" principles such as public choice theory as promoted by the Koch Brothers-funded libertarian crackpot James Buchanan
iii) the failure to put in place a proper find, test, trace and isolate system
iv) The confusion and short termism and influence of the business lobby over policy
v) the individualistic "f**k society" culture promoted by right-wing loons like McDowell

In short, the virus is the problem, and right-wing politics is the problem

Norway, Finland and Denmark are managing their situations very well, perhaps because they didn't have governments full of Michael McDowells and media full of right-wing gobshites like Ian O'Doherty and David Quinn and Martin Feeley

The virus is here and it's not going away. People were invested in the firs lockdown, I don't think the same buy in exists this time around as governments failed to act on the time lockdown bought them to deal with the virus. If there was adequate healthcare resources and ICU beds available then we would not be in a second lockdown right now.

No government can easily conjure up additional experienced doctors and nurses. They can do something and perhaps should have done more, but if the numbers are growing quickly then any extra ICU beds they could conceivably magic up would only postpone restrictions for a couple of weeks.
They have to flatten the bulge one way or the other.
It would have been easier and cheaper for them to hire more inspectors and more contact tracers than hire more doctors and they should absolutely be criticised for not doing this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 06:12:44 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 16, 2020, 03:42:57 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 03:36:18 PM
Quote from: currychip on October 16, 2020, 02:35:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 01:13:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 12:51:05 PM
Edwin Potts on TalkBack saying CMO has evidence linked to significant spread through GAA after parties

What amazing detective powers. There is no doubt that many people have let the GAA down. The worst part of the 26 counties is in Cavan around Ballyjamesduff, not close to the border but close to Crosserlough. The closure of businesses throughout Cavan can be laid at the door of irresponsible people in those parts.

The intercounty season shouldn't lead to this, unless Fermanagh win Ulster.


About Poots - I heard that and must say I get fed up with the lack of knowledge from interviewers to come back on the claims made.  As we know, Derry City & Strabane council areas have been the hotbeds of infection recently.  I don't recall any recent big GAA games in that council area, no big congregation of GAA supporters ignoring social distancing.  That would have been an easy response from Crawley, if he had bothered.  There have been widely publicised infractions in Slaughtneil, Dungannon and after a game in South Armagh.   Behaviour was unwise, at a minimum.  However, Poots, unchallenged, only laid the blame in one direction.

The only narrative around Covid and the GAA is negative.  I know in my Co Derry club we have been very compliant with all guidelines, consistently since returning to training and play.  Across the GAA there have been clear breaches but its an organisation with a very wide reach.  I just wish the good stuff would get a bit more airtime.

Yes I thought it could be challenged more myself, but also I don't think he suggested every outbreak was down to that, just some of the significant ones. The outbreaks here in Derry City certainly were not down to it, id love to start seeing the data because he clearly said MON and AF know the main sources-I suspect bars and parties in Derry City.

What about that funfair on N. I execuitve land in Derry? Anything traced back to  that??

No mention.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:13:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:07:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 05:57:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 16, 2020, 05:40:05 PM
The issues are

i) the virus
ii) the decades of mismanagement of the health service according to private sector "rational" principles such as public choice theory as promoted by the Koch Brothers-funded libertarian crackpot James Buchanan
iii) the failure to put in place a proper find, test, trace and isolate system
iv) The confusion and short termism and influence of the business lobby over policy
v) the individualistic "f**k society" culture promoted by right-wing loons like McDowell

In short, the virus is the problem, and right-wing politics is the problem

Norway, Finland and Denmark are managing their situations very well, perhaps because they didn't have governments full of Michael McDowells and media full of right-wing gobshites like Ian O'Doherty and David Quinn and Martin Feeley

The virus is here and it's not going away. People were invested in the firs lockdown, I don't think the same buy in exists this time around as governments failed to act on the time lockdown bought them to deal with the virus. If there was adequate healthcare resources and ICU beds available then we would not be in a second lockdown right now.

No government can easily conjure up additional experienced doctors and nurses. They can do something and perhaps should have done more, but if the numbers are growing quickly then any extra ICU beds they could conceivably magic up would only postpone restrictions for a couple of weeks.
They have to flatten the bulge one way or the other.
It would have been easier and cheaper for them to hire more inspectors and more contact tracers than hire more doctors and they should absolutely be criticised for not doing this.

We're in a pandemic.

The Chinese Government built a Covid hospital in a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:22:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 06:12:44 PM
No mention.

Indoor is about 18 times as risky as outdoor, an outdoor funfair may not have been the worst.

Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:13:41 PM
We're in a pandemic.
The Chinese Government built a Covid hospital in a couple of weeks.

China squashed the virus in Wuhan and around by moving resources from other parts of China. This works if it is concentrated one place.
Ireland had the Citywest facility and probably still does, but they can't move nurses etc from other parts of the country as things are much the same everywhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:28:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:22:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 06:12:44 PM
No mention.

Indoor is about 18 times as risky as outdoor, an outdoor funfair may not have been the worst.

Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:13:41 PM
We're in a pandemic.
The Chinese Government built a Covid hospital in a couple of weeks.

China squashed the virus in Wuhan and around by moving resources from other parts of China. This works if it is concentrated one place.
Ireland had the Citywest facility and probably still does, but they can't move nurses etc from other parts of the country as things are much the same everywhere.

You said no government could do it a few minutes ago. If there's a will, there's a way.

We're getting close to capacity at present in the north with the no of cases peaking, an extra 20/30/40 beds would make a massive difference in how we could deal with the virus. The vast majority of people who get this won't need hospitalisation. It's a state of emergency in healthcare but the efforts that have been made at it from governmental level have been pitiful.

Instead it's easier to blame the people who abided with the first lockdown to buy them time to fix the mess that was of their own doing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:32:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:28:36 PM
You said no government could do it a few minutes ago. If there's a will, there's a way.

The only way you can do it is by cancelling other operations and moving the nurses etc around.
Yet we had several people here implying that lockdowns did not benefit people with other diseases.  :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 16, 2020, 06:39:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:28:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:22:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 06:12:44 PM
No mention.

Indoor is about 18 times as risky as outdoor, an outdoor funfair may not have been the worst.

Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:13:41 PM
We're in a pandemic.
The Chinese Government built a Covid hospital in a couple of weeks.

China squashed the virus in Wuhan and around by moving resources from other parts of China. This works if it is concentrated one place.
Ireland had the Citywest facility and probably still does, but they can't move nurses etc from other parts of the country as things are much the same everywhere.

You said no government could do it a few minutes ago. If there's a will, there's a way.

We're getting close to capacity at present in the north with the no of cases peaking, an extra 20/30/40 beds would make a massive difference in how we could deal with the virus. The vast majority of people who get this won't need hospitalisation. It's a state of emergency in healthcare but the efforts that have been made at it from governmental level have been pitiful.

Instead it's easier to blame the people who abided with the first lockdown to buy them time to fix the mess that was of their own doing.

Altnagelvin doubled it's ICU bed capacity from 10 to 20 by the end of April (surge overflow beds) . That's just 1 hospital in the North, I've no idea about the rest. Though you can't make a silk purse etc....
But there's alot of folk out there that need to shoulder some blame too. People have been seen walking the streets of Derry and Strabane who have just recently tested positive. Countless idiots in shops maskless,  staff packing shelves with no masks on, Anne McCloskey and any lunatic who listens to her warped bile etc
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:41:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:32:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:28:36 PM
You said no government could do it a few minutes ago. If there's a will, there's a way.

The only way you can do it is by cancelling other operations and moving the nurses etc around.
Yet we had several people here implying that lockdowns did not benefit people with other diseases.  :(

Not true.

The way you can do it is by investing in the health service. There was no will for that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:44:08 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 16, 2020, 06:39:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:28:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:22:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 06:12:44 PM
No mention.

Indoor is about 18 times as risky as outdoor, an outdoor funfair may not have been the worst.

Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:13:41 PM
We're in a pandemic.
The Chinese Government built a Covid hospital in a couple of weeks.

China squashed the virus in Wuhan and around by moving resources from other parts of China. This works if it is concentrated one place.
Ireland had the Citywest facility and probably still does, but they can't move nurses etc from other parts of the country as things are much the same everywhere.

You said no government could do it a few minutes ago. If there's a will, there's a way.

We're getting close to capacity at present in the north with the no of cases peaking, an extra 20/30/40 beds would make a massive difference in how we could deal with the virus. The vast majority of people who get this won't need hospitalisation. It's a state of emergency in healthcare but the efforts that have been made at it from governmental level have been pitiful.

Instead it's easier to blame the people who abided with the first lockdown to buy them time to fix the mess that was of their own doing.

Altnagelvin doubled it's ICU bed capacity from 10 to 20 by the end of April (surge overflow beds) . That's just 1 hospital in the North, I've no idea about the rest. Though you can't make a silk purse etc....
But there's alot of folk out there that need to shoulder some blame too. People have been seen walking the streets of Derry and Strabane who have just recently tested positive. Countless idiots in shops maskless,  staff packing shelves with no masks on, Anne McCloskey and any lunatic who listens to her warped bile etc

People simply don't fear the virus anymore. The first lockdown was driven by images of Bergamo and Madrid.

If we had an adequate health service it would be able to cope with the current levels of Covid.

How long more are people expected to live in these circumstances?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2020, 07:12:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:41:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:32:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:28:36 PM
You said no government could do it a few minutes ago. If there's a will, there's a way.

The only way you can do it is by cancelling other operations and moving the nurses etc around.
Yet we had several people here implying that lockdowns did not benefit people with other diseases.  :(

Not true.

The way you can do it is by investing in the health service. There was no will for that.

Invest? Where are you getting the investment?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 07:26:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2020, 07:12:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:41:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:32:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:28:36 PM
You said no government could do it a few minutes ago. If there's a will, there's a way.

The only way you can do it is by cancelling other operations and moving the nurses etc around.
Yet we had several people here implying that lockdowns did not benefit people with other diseases.  :(

Not true.

The way you can do it is by investing in the health service. There was no will for that.

Invest? Where are you getting the investment?

I'm sorry?

We're in a global pandemic and you don't think we should be investing in healthcare?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 16, 2020, 07:28:36 PM
There is no magic money tree Angelo. Particularly when you are lining your mates pockets with 12 billion for a barely functional app.

The executive here are begging for money to keep the economy afloat.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 16, 2020, 07:31:07 PM
https://t.co/rpdg53902R (https://t.co/rpdg53902R)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2020, 07:35:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 07:26:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2020, 07:12:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:41:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:32:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:28:36 PM
You said no government could do it a few minutes ago. If there's a will, there's a way.

The only way you can do it is by cancelling other operations and moving the nurses etc around.
Yet we had several people here implying that lockdowns did not benefit people with other diseases.  :(

Not true.

The way you can do it is by investing in the health service. There was no will for that.

Invest? Where are you getting the investment?

I'm sorry?

We're in a global pandemic and you don't think we should be investing in healthcare?

Ok, I'll ask again, where are you getting the investment?

Was walking through town today at 5pm, such a sad sight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 16, 2020, 07:43:32 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 16, 2020, 06:39:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:28:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:22:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 06:12:44 PM
No mention.

Indoor is about 18 times as risky as outdoor, an outdoor funfair may not have been the worst.

Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:13:41 PM
We're in a pandemic.
The Chinese Government built a Covid hospital in a couple of weeks.

China squashed the virus in Wuhan and around by moving resources from other parts of China. This works if it is concentrated one place.
Ireland had the Citywest facility and probably still does, but they can't move nurses etc from other parts of the country as things are much the same everywhere.

You said no government could do it a few minutes ago. If there's a will, there's a way.

We're getting close to capacity at present in the north with the no of cases peaking, an extra 20/30/40 beds would make a massive difference in how we could deal with the virus. The vast majority of people who get this won't need hospitalisation. It's a state of emergency in healthcare but the efforts that have been made at it from governmental level have been pitiful.

Instead it's easier to blame the people who abided with the first lockdown to buy them time to fix the mess that was of their own doing.

Altnagelvin doubled it's ICU bed capacity from 10 to 20 by the end of April (surge overflow beds) . That's just 1 hospital in the North, I've no idea about the rest. Though you can't make a silk purse etc....
But there's alot of folk out there that need to shoulder some blame too. People have been seen walking the streets of Derry and Strabane who have just recently tested positive. Countless idiots in shops maskless,  staff packing shelves with no masks on, Anne McCloskey and any lunatic who listens to her warped bile etc
Totally agree.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 07:44:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2020, 07:35:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 07:26:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2020, 07:12:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:41:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:32:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:28:36 PM
You said no government could do it a few minutes ago. If there's a will, there's a way.

The only way you can do it is by cancelling other operations and moving the nurses etc around.
Yet we had several people here implying that lockdowns did not benefit people with other diseases.  :(

Not true.

The way you can do it is by investing in the health service. There was no will for that.

Invest? Where are you getting the investment?

I'm sorry?

We're in a global pandemic and you don't think we should be investing in healthcare?

Ok, I'll ask again, where are you getting the investment?

Was walking through town today at 5pm, such a sad sight.

The political system in the O6 is a basket case so the assembly has little power.

Same places every other European country are funding the costs of the pandemic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 07:45:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:44:08 PM
How long more are people expected to live in these circumstances?

Derry should have herd immunity in a few months, if herd immunity exists.
The rest of us will just wait for the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 07:56:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 07:45:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:44:08 PM
How long more are people expected to live in these circumstances?

Derry should have herd immunity in a few months, if herd immunity exists.
The rest of us will just wait for the vaccine.

We'll be waiting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 16, 2020, 08:02:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 07:45:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:44:08 PM
How long more are people expected to live in these circumstances?

Derry should have herd immunity in a few months, if herd immunity exists.
The rest of us will just wait for the vaccine.
Could be more of a cull in Derry. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2020, 08:06:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 07:44:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2020, 07:35:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 07:26:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2020, 07:12:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:41:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:32:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:28:36 PM
You said no government could do it a few minutes ago. If there's a will, there's a way.

The only way you can do it is by cancelling other operations and moving the nurses etc around.
Yet we had several people here implying that lockdowns did not benefit people with other diseases.  :(

Not true.

The way you can do it is by investing in the health service. There was no will for that.

Invest? Where are you getting the investment?

I'm sorry?

We're in a global pandemic and you don't think we should be investing in healthcare?

Ok, I'll ask again, where are you getting the investment?

Was walking through town today at 5pm, such a sad sight.

The political system in the O6 is a basket case so the assembly has little power.

Same places every other European country are funding the costs of the pandemic.
So you're not telling me? Investment is coming from where?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 08:18:51 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 16, 2020, 06:39:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:28:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:22:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 06:12:44 PM
No mention.

Indoor is about 18 times as risky as outdoor, an outdoor funfair may not have been the worst.

Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:13:41 PM
We're in a pandemic.
The Chinese Government built a Covid hospital in a couple of weeks.

China squashed the virus in Wuhan and around by moving resources from other parts of China. This works if it is concentrated one place.
Ireland had the Citywest facility and probably still does, but they can't move nurses etc from other parts of the country as things are much the same everywhere.

You said no government could do it a few minutes ago. If there's a will, there's a way.

We're getting close to capacity at present in the north with the no of cases peaking, an extra 20/30/40 beds would make a massive difference in how we could deal with the virus. The vast majority of people who get this won't need hospitalisation. It's a state of emergency in healthcare but the efforts that have been made at it from governmental level have been pitiful.

Instead it's easier to blame the people who abided with the first lockdown to buy them time to fix the mess that was of their own doing.

Altnagelvin doubled it's ICU bed capacity from 10 to 20 by the end of April (surge overflow beds) . That's just 1 hospital in the North, I've no idea about the rest. Though you can't make a silk purse etc....
But there's alot of folk out there that need to shoulder some blame too. People have been seen walking the streets of Derry and Strabane who have just recently tested positive. Countless idiots in shops maskless,  staff packing shelves with no masks on, Anne McCloskey and any lunatic who listens to her warped bile etc

Martin McGuinness brother Willie ramming them into Peadar's and Colm Eastwood s wife ramming them into The Taphouse. The list goes on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on October 16, 2020, 08:21:40 PM
One ICU bed.

2 patients.

Both same age.

P1 is a covid patient on last legs.
P2 is a heart attack patient on last legs.

Who gets it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 16, 2020, 08:31:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 08:18:51 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 16, 2020, 06:39:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:28:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:22:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 06:12:44 PM
No mention.

Indoor is about 18 times as risky as outdoor, an outdoor funfair may not have been the worst.

Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:13:41 PM
We're in a pandemic.
The Chinese Government built a Covid hospital in a couple of weeks.

China squashed the virus in Wuhan and around by moving resources from other parts of China. This works if it is concentrated one place.
Ireland had the Citywest facility and probably still does, but they can't move nurses etc from other parts of the country as things are much the same everywhere.

You said no government could do it a few minutes ago. If there's a will, there's a way.

We're getting close to capacity at present in the north with the no of cases peaking, an extra 20/30/40 beds would make a massive difference in how we could deal with the virus. The vast majority of people who get this won't need hospitalisation. It's a state of emergency in healthcare but the efforts that have been made at it from governmental level have been pitiful.

Instead it's easier to blame the people who abided with the first lockdown to buy them time to fix the mess that was of their own doing.

Altnagelvin doubled it's ICU bed capacity from 10 to 20 by the end of April (surge overflow beds) . That's just 1 hospital in the North, I've no idea about the rest. Though you can't make a silk purse etc....
But there's alot of folk out there that need to shoulder some blame too. People have been seen walking the streets of Derry and Strabane who have just recently tested positive. Countless idiots in shops maskless,  staff packing shelves with no masks on, Anne McCloskey and any lunatic who listens to her warped bile etc

Martin McGuinness brother Willie ramming them into Peadar's and Colm Eastwood s wife ramming them into The Taphouse. The list goes on
Interesting because Peadar's was one of the first to close, before St. Patrick's Day, and I thought had closed up again fairly sharp.  Anyhow, a gaelic team returning to the city without the cup went on the rip I believe, somewhere in the city - even though the match had been moved from the city because of the danger!!  So yes, lots of people did not take it seriously adding to what we have now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 08:38:31 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 16, 2020, 08:31:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 08:18:51 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 16, 2020, 06:39:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:28:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:22:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 06:12:44 PM
No mention.

Indoor is about 18 times as risky as outdoor, an outdoor funfair may not have been the worst.

Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:13:41 PM
We're in a pandemic.
The Chinese Government built a Covid hospital in a couple of weeks.

China squashed the virus in Wuhan and around by moving resources from other parts of China. This works if it is concentrated one place.
Ireland had the Citywest facility and probably still does, but they can't move nurses etc from other parts of the country as things are much the same everywhere.

You said no government could do it a few minutes ago. If there's a will, there's a way.

We're getting close to capacity at present in the north with the no of cases peaking, an extra 20/30/40 beds would make a massive difference in how we could deal with the virus. The vast majority of people who get this won't need hospitalisation. It's a state of emergency in healthcare but the efforts that have been made at it from governmental level have been pitiful.

Instead it's easier to blame the people who abided with the first lockdown to buy them time to fix the mess that was of their own doing.

Altnagelvin doubled it's ICU bed capacity from 10 to 20 by the end of April (surge overflow beds) . That's just 1 hospital in the North, I've no idea about the rest. Though you can't make a silk purse etc....
But there's alot of folk out there that need to shoulder some blame too. People have been seen walking the streets of Derry and Strabane who have just recently tested positive. Countless idiots in shops maskless,  staff packing shelves with no masks on, Anne McCloskey and any lunatic who listens to her warped bile etc

Martin McGuinness brother Willie ramming them into Peadar's and Colm Eastwood s wife ramming them into The Taphouse. The list goes on
Interesting because Peadar's was one of the first to close, before St. Patrick's Day, and I thought had closed up again fairly sharp.  Anyhow, a gaelic team returning to the city without the cup went on the rip I believe, somewhere in the city - even though the match had been moved from the city because of the danger!!  So yes, lots of people did not take it seriously adding to what we have now.

Absolutely they all closed early which may have added ironically to the mad numbers in between shut downs. Out of interest how did the eat out to help out go in other towns. I'm not joking you but it was almost near impossible here to book a seat it was that popular
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 16, 2020, 08:43:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 08:38:31 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 16, 2020, 08:31:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 08:18:51 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 16, 2020, 06:39:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:28:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:22:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 06:12:44 PM
No mention.

Indoor is about 18 times as risky as outdoor, an outdoor funfair may not have been the worst.

Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:13:41 PM
We're in a pandemic.
The Chinese Government built a Covid hospital in a couple of weeks.

China squashed the virus in Wuhan and around by moving resources from other parts of China. This works if it is concentrated one place.
Ireland had the Citywest facility and probably still does, but they can't move nurses etc from other parts of the country as things are much the same everywhere.

You said no government could do it a few minutes ago. If there's a will, there's a way.

We're getting close to capacity at present in the north with the no of cases peaking, an extra 20/30/40 beds would make a massive difference in how we could deal with the virus. The vast majority of people who get this won't need hospitalisation. It's a state of emergency in healthcare but the efforts that have been made at it from governmental level have been pitiful.

Instead it's easier to blame the people who abided with the first lockdown to buy them time to fix the mess that was of their own doing.

Altnagelvin doubled it's ICU bed capacity from 10 to 20 by the end of April (surge overflow beds) . That's just 1 hospital in the North, I've no idea about the rest. Though you can't make a silk purse etc....
But there's alot of folk out there that need to shoulder some blame too. People have been seen walking the streets of Derry and Strabane who have just recently tested positive. Countless idiots in shops maskless,  staff packing shelves with no masks on, Anne McCloskey and any lunatic who listens to her warped bile etc

Martin McGuinness brother Willie ramming them into Peadar's and Colm Eastwood s wife ramming them into The Taphouse. The list goes on
Interesting because Peadar's was one of the first to close, before St. Patrick's Day, and I thought had closed up again fairly sharp.  Anyhow, a gaelic team returning to the city without the cup went on the rip I believe, somewhere in the city - even though the match had been moved from the city because of the danger!!  So yes, lots of people did not take it seriously adding to what we have now.

Absolutely they all closed early which may have added ironically to the mad numbers in between shut downs. Out of interest how did the eat out to help out go in other towns. I'm not joking you but it was almost near impossible here to book a seat it was that popular
Can only go on what I heard but apparently very successful.  There was a fear that the mid-week surge would eat in to (great pun!) the weekend  numbers but that didn't occur.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 08:56:20 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 16, 2020, 08:43:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 08:38:31 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 16, 2020, 08:31:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 08:18:51 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 16, 2020, 06:39:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:28:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:22:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 06:12:44 PM
No mention.

Indoor is about 18 times as risky as outdoor, an outdoor funfair may not have been the worst.

Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:13:41 PM
We're in a pandemic.
The Chinese Government built a Covid hospital in a couple of weeks.

China squashed the virus in Wuhan and around by moving resources from other parts of China. This works if it is concentrated one place.
Ireland had the Citywest facility and probably still does, but they can't move nurses etc from other parts of the country as things are much the same everywhere.

You said no government could do it a few minutes ago. If there's a will, there's a way.

We're getting close to capacity at present in the north with the no of cases peaking, an extra 20/30/40 beds would make a massive difference in how we could deal with the virus. The vast majority of people who get this won't need hospitalisation. It's a state of emergency in healthcare but the efforts that have been made at it from governmental level have been pitiful.

Instead it's easier to blame the people who abided with the first lockdown to buy them time to fix the mess that was of their own doing.

Altnagelvin doubled it's ICU bed capacity from 10 to 20 by the end of April (surge overflow beds) . That's just 1 hospital in the North, I've no idea about the rest. Though you can't make a silk purse etc....
But there's alot of folk out there that need to shoulder some blame too. People have been seen walking the streets of Derry and Strabane who have just recently tested positive. Countless idiots in shops maskless,  staff packing shelves with no masks on, Anne McCloskey and any lunatic who listens to her warped bile etc

Martin McGuinness brother Willie ramming them into Peadar's and Colm Eastwood s wife ramming them into The Taphouse. The list goes on
Interesting because Peadar's was one of the first to close, before St. Patrick's Day, and I thought had closed up again fairly sharp.  Anyhow, a gaelic team returning to the city without the cup went on the rip I believe, somewhere in the city - even though the match had been moved from the city because of the danger!!  So yes, lots of people did not take it seriously adding to what we have now.

Absolutely they all closed early which may have added ironically to the mad numbers in between shut downs. Out of interest how did the eat out to help out go in other towns. I'm not joking you but it was almost near impossible here to book a seat it was that popular
Can only go on what I heard but apparently very successful.  There was a fear that the mid-week surge would eat in to (great pun!) the weekend  numbers but that didn't occur.

Snap
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 16, 2020, 09:33:42 PM
The latest on a possible vaccine?
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/pfizer-to-seek-fda-approval-for-covid-19-vaccine-in-november-1.4382844?mode=amp
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: michaelg on October 16, 2020, 10:39:25 PM
You really couldn't make it up when it comes to NI politics:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/northern-ireland/54577892
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 16, 2020, 11:23:04 PM
Quote from: michaelg on October 16, 2020, 10:39:25 PM
You really couldn't make it up when it comes to NI politics:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/northern-ireland/54577892

This is fecking madness
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 11:39:07 PM
NI has a huge problem, but the measures they have introduced will not cure it. These measures might reduce R towards 1 but if R is at 1 then the cases will stay the same at 1000 day and the hospitals will overflow, even if R becomes 0.95 it will take a long time to bring things under control. Then you have Poots going on about not introducing measures unless there was specific information about their value, but if you have 1200 cases a day then you have to stop a load of things.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 17, 2020, 12:44:57 AM
I avoided this thread for about 5 months because it was depressing me. It's time I avoided it again as the current situation is really starting to get to me.

Too many people not doing the right things, leading to governments not going far enough in restrictions.

Hopefully we all make it out of this in one piece. Please do the right things, and hopefully we'll make it through. Best of luck everyone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on October 17, 2020, 01:11:21 AM
It's the flood story from the bible, where those who are unprepared and ignore the warnings get washed away and die, leaving the remainder to renew the world. While only a story obviously it has great parallels here, which is why you should choose your leaders wisely and listen to your conscience, it will tell you what to do  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 17, 2020, 07:10:44 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:10:16 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:45:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:04:49 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:54:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:00:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2020, 06:41:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 06:29:44 PM
But there is absolutely nothing to say whatsoever that the consequences of contracting the flu is worse than covid and it won't be known for years so to have a few blowhards on the internet coming out and making such proclamations is absolutely absurd.

Which of the studies in the chart I posted above do you take issue with and what is wrong with their methodology, exactly?

I would say the fact that Covid is a novel virus that little is still known about and it impossible to make definitive conclusions on this. Look at the falling mortality rates that are being returned across Europe, it is defying any sort of logic to be making these types of conclusions at this juncture.

Time will tell us about Covid, we just don't know enough at the minute and it's idiotic to say otherwise.

Have you reviewed those studies yourself?

Quite incredible. Angelo cries time is of the evidence and science needs to get its collective finger out.

When confronted with scientific research he decries it as can't be right as it's too early to say.

Poisonous ignorance

Not at all.

I think it's insanity to be waiting years for science to figure out something that basic questions are causing them severe confusion.

Science's track record on solving infectious diseases is not good so people advocating us hiding under our beds until such time as science finds the solution should be put away in straight jackets.

The most important thing now is what the data says over the next few months about fatality levels, if the trends continues of fatality levels dropping hugely then it's something we can live with. We live with flu, something science has never been able to eradicate.

Staggering stuff.

How do you know it going to be years?
What you refuse to wait to say (randomly March 2021) because it could end up being March 2023 even though the period between now and March 2021 coincides with the northern winter?

Show me the balanced evidence of science's poor track record in "solving" infectious diseases?

Name the person telling you to hide under the bed at all never mind indefinitely?

You have a fixation on fatality rates and disease eradication. Flu has not been eradicated but we have had a succession of vaccines. What is you acceptable number of deaths for COVID? It's your question so presumably you will readily answer it!!! What is your stance on the non fatal health consequences of COVID?

Shocking naivety there. Science keep telling us that vaccines take years to create, if you believe science is going to sort this out in the next year or too you probably believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy as well.

And here you go again with name me, is that all you have to contribute? There are people who are solely advocating lockdowns and restrictions for fighting the virus, if the data trends as it has and show for the vast majority of people that this virus is pretty much similar to the flu in terms of its effect, if the data trends and the fatality rates keep falling, then lockdowns and restrictions are an overreaction. What will give us a basis for this is time and the results we will see from the second wave. If you don't have anything to add to the discussion other than stupid questions like name me people then just forget it. There are plenty of people who think the only way to deal with the virus here is to lock everything down, that's not going to work long term.

Flu has not been eradicated, I know that full well, we are unlikely to eradicate Covid either, certainly for a considerable amount of time so how do you deal with it? By living with it or by hiding under the bed? We live with flu, it causes deaths every year and it causes sever strain on the health system and other negative factors but we have acceptable risk with it. At what level do we say the same with Covid?

Hadn't been on in a few days. I guessed your trail of gibberish would have continued and true enough...

Scientists do not keep telling us it will take years to develop a vaccine. It is true to say that we don't know how long it will take. And we could have an early vaccine that needs improvement and is initially only used in the highest risk cases.

I love your "here you go again with name me". It is (when properly worded) called asking for evidence. It will be familiar to anyone with a passing interest in science. It is also frequently used in debate. It's purpose is twofold. Firstly it's an effort to keep the debate fact based. Secondly, by extension of the first point, it specifically addresses the number of assholes who think they can make any claim they like. The credibility of the latter needs to be completely destroyed less any impressionable minds should chance upon their works.

Let me give you and example. I have recently read someone saying "There are people who are solely advocating lockdowns and restrictions for fighting the virus". For that to be true there would have to be people ruling out trying to develop vaccines, treatments, improved testing, test, track and trace etc. It easy to see that the claim is a lie and the claimant a liar. All I have to do is ask for the evidence? They will fail to do so and engage in some complaint about being asked to produce evidence.

Anyway you get on with answering the questions I posed in the post above
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 17, 2020, 07:15:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:11:07 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:50:16 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:16:10 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:13:30 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 08:11:08 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 08:03:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 14, 2020, 07:56:59 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 14, 2020, 07:46:40 PM
Does the flu cripple the health service in the same way as Covid?

That's not the same as "Do people die from it?" Yes, they do but are they coming into hospitals in the same numbers meaning that beds and treatment aren't available to anyone else?

Statistically hospital beds come under increasing pressure every winter from the flu.

Clearly there is an acceptable level of death with the seasonal flu or everything would shut down, so I'm asking you what you deem an acceptable level of death with Covid? Or are we meant to sit on our hands until science solves it, which could be years, which could be never.
I don't think there is one. People with flu & Covid will be treated and the health service will try to save their lives. Unfortunately people will still die of both.
There is an attempt, via lockdown etc to lower Covid numbers in order to stop the hospitals from being overwhelmed.
The flu doesn't overwhelm the hospitals in the same way therefore a lockdown is not seen to be required for it.

Maybe not in the same way but the flu does overwhelm hospitals at Winter and the health service does become strained and deaths do occur due to this and this is deemed an acceptable level.

So back to my question, what is an acceptable level of death. Lockdown has huge negative drawbacks to people's livelihoods, the economy and wider social and mental health problems so at what point do we say this lockdown and restrictions are counter-productive on a societal wide basis? That's a very important discussion those in power need to be discussing now.

We have been told again and again by scientists and the WHO that there is no silver bullet for Covid, it's going to be here for the medium to long terms so we simply have to learn to live with it. Some countries are making a much better fist of it that others.

Cases on the rise are going to be an inevitability.

There seems to be conflicting problems on both sides of the border - here it is the economic repercussions of quelling the spread, down south it's their dysfunctional health service being unable to cope. I think we probably have 4x the level of Covid transmissions up here at the minute that they have down south.

It would be true to say that at points during the winter the health system is overwhelmed. It's is also true to say that the flu is a factor and some years a massive problem. It depends on the strain, the efficacy of the latest vaccination and even how early in the winter the flu arrives.

But there are wider factors at play over the winter due to the cold (the temperature, not the illness).

But we accept whatever threats and levels of risk seasonal flu brings with it.

At what level do we accept Covid?

We don't just accept the flu. We pour billions into vaccinations and trying to treat.

We clearly do accept the flu.

Can you remind me of the last time we shut down entire industries and sectors because of the flu?

We don't have a vaccine for next year's flu. If we just accepted flu we wouldn't bother trying to develop one. But we don't just accept flu and we will try to develop a vaccine at huge expense.

Hopefully you are done with your flu fixation and we can get on with tackling COVID
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 17, 2020, 07:30:09 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:21:51 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:33:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 09:39:57 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:35:09 AM


In terms of treatments, vaccines and understanding it is critically important that science keeps trying. Blockheads will try to get in the way but we just have to expose their idiocy

On the economic issues how many jobs will be lost if we don't get COVID sorted? What are the prospects for the global or domestic economy if we can't control, significantly treat, cure or vaccinate against Covid?

That's all speculative, neither of us have the answer but do you think it is good for the human race to hide under the bed waiting for science to solve it?

The data on the consequences of the second wave surge in Europe should be the decisive factor on which avenue we take. If the current trends continue then it looks more and more likely we can live with the virus.

To describe the search for treatment, vaccines and a better understanding of the virus as speculative probably gives away your degree of understanding of science and indeed English.

But please don't let me deter you from answering the economic questions I posed

What an absolutely idiotic statement you've just made. It's clearly speculative as you are asking to quantify what simply cannot be quantified right now.

Then prospects for global and domestic economies are absolutely catastrophic from lockdowns, we know that. We know already the billions and billions that have been lost as a result. Lockdowns are a course of action taken to deal with Covid but the WHO are warning against lockdowns now.

We have to wait and see now, science was not able to deal with SARS in time. Why are you so confident it will deal with this?

Speculative, as popularly understood, is a pejorative term implying either conjecture or high risk. Vaccine development for COVID 19 is based upon the knowledge built up on coronavirus down the years.

Your paragraph about economics seems to be about lockdowns. The economic questions you were asked were about the alternatives. So have another go at backing up your own argument

I am very open to listening to science and what progress they are making including inter alia vaccines
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 17, 2020, 07:31:55 AM
Angelo I would also recommend that check out exactly what WHO are saying about Lockdowns
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 17, 2020, 07:33:31 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:49:47 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:48:17 AM


I don't think there is any adult or adolescent who does not know that the flu can be fatal.

In stupidity terms, I think this has to rank as the most idiotic contribution to this thread so far.

So who is that doesn't know that people die of the flu?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 17, 2020, 08:04:11 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 02:05:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 15, 2020, 02:00:41 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 15, 2020, 01:34:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 15, 2020, 01:25:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 01:17:47 PM
On the contrary, all I've done on this thread is challenged people who know nothing about the virus making outlandish claims about the virus.

I've repeated time and time again we know very little about it and the next 5/6 weeks will be telling on what data is returned on this second wave.

The one sure thing we know is that lockdown and excessive restrictions have and will cause severe economic and societal problems and this kind of lockdown we have must be the last we enter if the data returned from the second wave is much more positive than the first.

Time will tell us that, not a few blowhards on an internet forum.

You've shown that you know nothing about it and are very resistant to being provided with information.
You must have been vaccinated against education.

Armaghniac your feelings on Covid are so desperately loaded towards a doomsday scenario, that you're incapable of being objective in any discussion of the subject. For you to attack anyone as "knowing nothing about it" is incredulous, as you simply refuse to consider that the virus may not be a global killer., and will  refuse to read or consider any evidence against your preordained thought channel.

Not so. I am informed by the data and anyone that wishes to refute anything I say need only produce reliable data. I have never said that it is the end of the world, but over 1 million people have died and in some parts of the world deaths rates have been two and a half times the usual number, so it is not a trivial thing either.

What I am against is people who claim that "science is only guessing" or "restrictions don't work" and who then go on to claim that the disease is not serious because of a decline in fatalities resulting from better science or restrictions.

But science is guessing. Have you been paying any attention so far? They haven't a breeze. Children for instance, spreaders or not don't know. Masks? Contended. Vaccine? On the way or not? Contended? Was it airborne or just on surfaces? They changed their mind on that? Remember all the modellers who predicted X number of cases and death and how wrong were they?

You seem to be putting faith in a field that can't find unilateral agreement in itself so what exactly are you saying?

I don't see where anybody said the disease wasn't serious here so try not be disingenuous.

You don't actually understand what the word "guess" means

As a matter of interest which modellers got it wrong?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 17, 2020, 08:07:42 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:01:25 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 15, 2020, 02:39:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 12:32:23 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 15, 2020, 11:00:25 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 10:48:20 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 10:08:35 AM

You keep asking nonsense questions like which people which leads to me think you are not capable of anything close to an intelligent debate. Why don't you conduct an audit.

Here's an article for your world of ignorance and naivety.

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/parents-dont-take-flu-seriously

The flu kills every year, vaccination or no vaccination. What is the acceptable level of risk? Why don't we go into lockdown every winter over the consequences of seasonal flu? Maybe you are now saying we should? At what cost does the world become consumed by Covid?

You confidently state "people on here ....." It's a logical question to ask you to name one. A question that you can't answer because it exposes your bogus argument

Stop using the flu as something to compare this to in terms of effects, numbers etc. It is such a lazy argument to bring the flu into it. Is is nothing like the flu once and is a nasty nasty repository disease.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-covid-19-isnt-the-flu

https://www.facebook.com/publichealthagency/videos/1720107168155944

To tackle this sort of nonsense head on..

A) You have a link from f**king Facebook, that says it all.

The other link has 4 main bullet points:

1.Experts say there are a number of reasons why COVID-19 is a more serious illness than the seasonal flu.

Experts say, experts say a lot of things, experts say a lot of things that contradict each other - the bottom line is these experts tend to be able to agree on very little with Covid - it's a novel virus we are still finding out about

2. They point out there's no vaccine yet for COVID-19 and community-wide immunity hasn't built up.

My that is ground breaking news, what does that tell us about whether Covid is worse than flu in its effect on someone who gets it

3. COVID-19 is also more infectious than the flu and has a higher death rate.

It's a novel virus, all across Europe now we are seeing new cases of Covid surging but fatality rates in line with the first wave dropping in multiples of up to 46 as Belgium is at the minute for instance.

4. COVID-19 also has a higher rate of hospitalizations.

As above, the second wave has been far, far less severe than the first.

It's ok to preach caution but how anyone can conclude such matters on Covid v flu at this point is idiotic, we won't know that for some time at all.


FFS....It wasn't any Facebook post. It was from the Public Health Agency. Not some half baked eejit.

Anyway, f**k it - you win. You are right and we are all wrong if that makes you feel better and the big man who is always right. I've better things to do with my life than spend all day on a forum with someone who twists and argues every minor details in some fucked up way. I'm all for debate and f**k knows I don't always get it right but I know where my moral compass is and that's all I care about. Good luck.

I'm not making any sort of definitive statements. I think it's dangerous to do so on a virus we have very limited knowledge and understanding of.

The data will be the most telling in the next few weeks and how prepared we now are to respond to it.

What is much more quantifiable is the negative impact of lockdowns on the economy, on people's livelihoods, societal impacts and mental health issues associated with it.

Can you quantify the economic impact of the steps that you advocate?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 17, 2020, 08:14:24 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 03:17:52 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 15, 2020, 03:12:49 PM
Wasn't this dance done with Smurfy about four months ago? Angelo is just the more verbose version, with a poorer head for figures.

Attempts to enter into this discussion in good faith are pointless. Pointless because he has rigged the argument from the start. He has set parameters asserting that science knows nothing and can't be trusted. He is therefore bulletproof to any counter argument informed by in research or expert opinion.

This is the post fact, post truth world. Where no one knows anything more than anyone else. Where no one can know more than anyone else. Where everyone's half baked opinions all hold equal weight. Where you just make up your own reality and refuse to let anyone tell you that you're wrong.

Fortunately, Celtic and Tyrone are back in action this weekend, so yer man should occupied arguing black is white in those threads for at least a few days.

I haven't said science knows nothing or can't be trusted.

I have said this a time sensitive matter, we are now entering a second lockdown which is going have huge economic and societal ramifications. Science seems to be at odds with each other on large elements of the virus. We can't keep entering lockdowns and restrictive measures to combat the virus, it's not feasible as a long term solution and there is no indication of a short-medium term solution from science, so the alternative is us living with the virus and what level do we say Covid is an acceptable risk, much like every winter we take the seasonal flu as an acceptable risk?

The figures coming from the second wave in terms of the potency of the virus are encouraging if they continue to fall or stabilise.

You did say science hadn't a breeze.

You do seem to pick a figure and run with it.

Mortality rates seem to be your standalone thing. Fill in the rest of the picture for us. What infection case numbers does your model get to? What treatment is offered? How do you protect the most vulnerable? What impacts will there be on the healthcare sector? What about the less developed world?

Fill in the picture on your vision for the future and we can give it a bit of critique
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 17, 2020, 08:17:47 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:03:00 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 15, 2020, 03:57:55 PM
An acceptable risk to do what? Let it run rife?

At current growth rate hospitals in the north will not have the beds for people. It is rare that this had happened for flu to the best of my knowledge.

An acceptable risk to the the detrimental economic and societal problems that lockdown and restrictions bring.

Seasonal flu overwhelms hospitals every year and we accept that risk. Should governments not have spent the last 6 months planing for poor healthcare capacity?

This is where Angelo sets out the economic consequences of his alternatives
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 17, 2020, 08:22:51 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 15, 2020, 04:33:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 15, 2020, 04:25:55 PM
I understand what you are saying but it is not just about deaths. It's about health service capacity.

I haven't read all your links but do we annually reach capacity? I wouldn't have thought so. I would also imagine that year or year you would have a worst case and a best case.

This is growing unbounded as it stands.

Lockdown is a last resort. It absolutely has to be and it's indicative of failures on many many levels but that is where we are.

Broadly I agree with you. People can be a bit knee jerk on things. There are areas arguably I wouldn't shut and they have however something drastic needs done at present.

10 years ago but here is one.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/northern-ireland-hospitals-critical-beds-crisis-after-flu-patients-swamp-unit-28580481.html

Look we are where we are. I don't have any broad objections to lockdown at this point but lockdowns can't be a long term solution.

The reason a lockdown is in place is that government didn't plan and cater for what they should have known as inevitable. Surely the past 6 months should have been focused towards increasing capacity and resources in the health system? It's the easy way out to blame the people.

That isn't annual. It does happen. It is also the case that things can be better planned for.

The big question for you is what hospital capability would there need to be year round if COVID 19 was allowed to run amok? What additional capacity would be required when additional seasonal demands kick in?

Also what arrangements will be in place in less developed economies?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 17, 2020, 08:26:36 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 15, 2020, 06:51:36 PM
There were no ICU beds available in Cork Hospitals last night and now I see Portlaoise can't take any new patients as they've had to close a ward due to Covid among staff.

If nobody died the Angelo doesn't seem to care
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 17, 2020, 08:33:06 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 04:53:08 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 16, 2020, 04:46:37 PM
QuoteYou'd expect the excess deaths level to rise again now.

What is an acceptable excess level of deaths though?

ZERO Covid and ZERO deaths appears to be the driver. Learn to live with it they said, flatten the curve they said. Coivd App they said, Coivd App they did. €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ health spend thay got €€€€€€€€€€€€€€€ health spend they did? Golfgate they did.

Now they wonder why the citizens won't listen anymore.

How much longer do they really envisage people living like this?

There doesn't seem to be any debate on whether lockdowns are a greater danger than the virus.

I would suggest that we will have significant levels of restrictions until at least March
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 17, 2020, 08:35:52 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 05:07:36 PM


I don't see us returning to the levels of excess deaths we saw in April/May.

Nobody does
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 17, 2020, 08:39:34 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:41:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:32:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:28:36 PM
You said no government could do it a few minutes ago. If there's a will, there's a way.

The only way you can do it is by cancelling other operations and moving the nurses etc around.
Yet we had several people here implying that lockdowns did not benefit people with other diseases.  :(

Not true.

The way you can do it is by investing in the health service. There was no will for that.

Campaign for it then. Show your support for medical science
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 17, 2020, 08:41:51 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:44:08 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 16, 2020, 06:39:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:28:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 16, 2020, 06:22:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 16, 2020, 06:12:44 PM
No mention.

Indoor is about 18 times as risky as outdoor, an outdoor funfair may not have been the worst.

Quote from: Angelo on October 16, 2020, 06:13:41 PM
We're in a pandemic.
The Chinese Government built a Covid hospital in a couple of weeks.

China squashed the virus in Wuhan and around by moving resources from other parts of China. This works if it is concentrated one place.
Ireland had the Citywest facility and probably still does, but they can't move nurses etc from other parts of the country as things are much the same everywhere.

You said no government could do it a few minutes ago. If there's a will, there's a way.

We're getting close to capacity at present in the north with the no of cases peaking, an extra 20/30/40 beds would make a massive difference in how we could deal with the virus. The vast majority of people who get this won't need hospitalisation. It's a state of emergency in healthcare but the efforts that have been made at it from governmental level have been pitiful.

Instead it's easier to blame the people who abided with the first lockdown to buy them time to fix the mess that was of their own doing.

Altnagelvin doubled it's ICU bed capacity from 10 to 20 by the end of April (surge overflow beds) . That's just 1 hospital in the North, I've no idea about the rest. Though you can't make a silk purse etc....
But there's alot of folk out there that need to shoulder some blame too. People have been seen walking the streets of Derry and Strabane who have just recently tested positive. Countless idiots in shops maskless,  staff packing shelves with no masks on, Anne McCloskey and any lunatic who listens to her warped bile etc

People simply don't fear the virus anymore. The first lockdown was driven by images of Bergamo and Madrid.

If we had an adequate health service it would be able to cope with the current levels of Covid.

How long more are people expected to live in these circumstances?

But you are not calling for existing levels of COVID! Your are calling for increased levels. What is your plan for that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 17, 2020, 08:52:27 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/analysis-it-s-hard-for-cabinet-to-reject-nphet-advice-on-level-5-twice-1.4383167

For example, in Dublin the 14-day incidence rate was 120.9 per 100,000 of population on September 18th, the date Level 3 was introduced in the county. The capital was by then far the worst performer nationally - this compared to a countrywide incidence of 62.37.
The most recent data shows that the incidence nationwide is now 206.7 per 100,000. In Dublin, it is 194.1
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 10:21:01 AM
So neatly tucked away in page 6 of today's Irish times is the story of cases in 170 nursing homes (that's a third of all nursing homes in the country).

Lessons learned they said, but

Blame the GAA
Blame house parties
Blame weddings
Blame pubs and restaurants

Testing and tracing would be as good as South Korea they said.

Some shower in charge.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 17, 2020, 11:34:38 AM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 10:21:01 AM
So neatly tucked away in page 6 of today's Irish times is the story of cases in 170 nursing homes (that's a third of all nursing homes in the country).

Lessons learned they said, but

Blame the GAA
Blame house parties
Blame weddings
Blame pubs and restaurants

It isn't as simple as that, people who were visiting or working nursing homes were getting Covid from these sources and bringing it into the homes.
I' sure there were plenty of cases of people partying, whether connected to the GAA or not, although people in their house worked in health care facilities, indeed some health care staff may have joined in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 12:07:16 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 10:21:01 AM
So neatly tucked away in page 6 of today's Irish times is the story of cases in 170 nursing homes (that's a third of all nursing homes in the country).

Lessons learned they said, but

Blame the GAA
Blame house parties
Blame weddings
Blame pubs and restaurants

Testing and tracing would be as good as South Korea they said.

Some shower in charge.
You're one of the people who said shielding the elderly and the vulnerable should be a doddle

The onus is on you to explain how this has happened because it has once again specifically proven you and the other herd immunity nutters totally wrong



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 01:57:33 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
The cure will do more damage than the disease.

This is the most important thing.

For the majority of young, fit and healthy people, the virus does not seem to carry much of a threat.

People are still spooked by what happened in the first wave.

If we come out of the second wave in the new year and see that the virus fatality rate has dropped all across Europe in double digit multiples, can we then see that the virus is something we can live with.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 02:15:23 PM
I asked you about it overwhelming the health sector and you gave me an example of ten years ago? It is not overwhelmed every year?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 03:17:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

We had one Lockdown and now less restrictions that the previous lockdown, this isn't even close to last lockdown.. And who is happy with seasonal flu? if they were happy with it they'd save a few million and not bother creating new flu vaccinations every year to hand out for free!

So you'd be happy with elderly parents/relatives with underlying conditions just dying from Covid as its an acceptable death, and you wouldn't even bother with saving them? You've been brought up well I can tell  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 03:42:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 03:17:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

We had one Lockdown and now less restrictions that the previous lockdown, this isn't even close to last lockdown.. And who is happy with seasonal flu? if they were happy with it they'd save a few million and not bother creating new flu vaccinations every year to hand out for free!

So you'd be happy with elderly parents/relatives with underlying conditions just dying from Covid as its an acceptable death, and you wouldn't even bother with saving them? You've been brought up well I can tell  ;D

Elderly parents and relatives are subject to seasonal flu every season. We don't shut the economy down.

Are you happy for people to lose their jobs, their livelihoods, for the detrimental economic and societal consequences of lockdowns so a virus with a fatality rate of what could be something like 0.4% keeps people who are dying alive a few months longer?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 03:44:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 03:42:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 03:17:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

We had one Lockdown and now less restrictions that the previous lockdown, this isn't even close to last lockdown.. And who is happy with seasonal flu? if they were happy with it they'd save a few million and not bother creating new flu vaccinations every year to hand out for free!

So you'd be happy with elderly parents/relatives with underlying conditions just dying from Covid as its an acceptable death, and you wouldn't even bother with saving them? You've been brought up well I can tell  ;D

Elderly parents and relatives are subject to seasonal flu every season. We don't shut the economy down.

Are you happy for people to lose their jobs, their livelihoods, for the detrimental economic and societal consequences of lockdowns so a virus with a fatality rate of what could be something like 0.4% keeps people who are dying alive a few months longer?

You answer my question first, I'll answer yous. Let's see how that goes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 03:50:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 03:42:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 03:17:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

We had one Lockdown and now less restrictions that the previous lockdown, this isn't even close to last lockdown.. And who is happy with seasonal flu? if they were happy with it they'd save a few million and not bother creating new flu vaccinations every year to hand out for free!

So you'd be happy with elderly parents/relatives with underlying conditions just dying from Covid as its an acceptable death, and you wouldn't even bother with saving them? You've been brought up well I can tell  ;D

Elderly parents and relatives are subject to seasonal flu every season. We don't shut the economy down.

Are you happy for people to lose their jobs, their livelihoods, for the detrimental economic and societal consequences of lockdowns so a virus with a fatality rate of what could be something like 0.4% keeps people who are dying alive a few months longer?
Are you for real?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 03:50:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 03:42:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 03:17:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

We had one Lockdown and now less restrictions that the previous lockdown, this isn't even close to last lockdown.. And who is happy with seasonal flu? if they were happy with it they'd save a few million and not bother creating new flu vaccinations every year to hand out for free!

So you'd be happy with elderly parents/relatives with underlying conditions just dying from Covid as its an acceptable death, and you wouldn't even bother with saving them? You've been brought up well I can tell  ;D

Elderly parents and relatives are subject to seasonal flu every season. We don't shut the economy down.

Are you happy for people to lose their jobs, their livelihoods, for the detrimental economic and societal consequences of lockdowns so a virus with a fatality rate of what could be something like 0.4% keeps people who are dying alive a few months longer?
Are you for real?

No.

I am deadly serious, people who are in their 80s with underlying health conditions have extremely limited life expectancy.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 04:05:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 03:50:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 03:42:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 03:17:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

We had one Lockdown and now less restrictions that the previous lockdown, this isn't even close to last lockdown.. And who is happy with seasonal flu? if they were happy with it they'd save a few million and not bother creating new flu vaccinations every year to hand out for free!

So you'd be happy with elderly parents/relatives with underlying conditions just dying from Covid as its an acceptable death, and you wouldn't even bother with saving them? You've been brought up well I can tell  ;D

Elderly parents and relatives are subject to seasonal flu every season. We don't shut the economy down.

Are you happy for people to lose their jobs, their livelihoods, for the detrimental economic and societal consequences of lockdowns so a virus with a fatality rate of what could be something like 0.4% keeps people who are dying alive a few months longer?
Are you for real?

No.

I am deadly serious, people who are in their 80s with underlying health conditions have extremely limited life expectancy.

Save it for Niall Murphy's family - dare you to email him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52370667


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 04:11:04 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 04:05:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 03:50:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 03:42:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 03:17:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

We had one Lockdown and now less restrictions that the previous lockdown, this isn't even close to last lockdown.. And who is happy with seasonal flu? if they were happy with it they'd save a few million and not bother creating new flu vaccinations every year to hand out for free!

So you'd be happy with elderly parents/relatives with underlying conditions just dying from Covid as its an acceptable death, and you wouldn't even bother with saving them? You've been brought up well I can tell  ;D

Elderly parents and relatives are subject to seasonal flu every season. We don't shut the economy down.

Are you happy for people to lose their jobs, their livelihoods, for the detrimental economic and societal consequences of lockdowns so a virus with a fatality rate of what could be something like 0.4% keeps people who are dying alive a few months longer?
Are you for real?

No.

I am deadly serious, people who are in their 80s with underlying health conditions have extremely limited life expectancy.

Save it for Niall Murphy's family - dare you to email him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52370667

Yet we live with seasonal flu.

Throwing victims names about to score points is petty but if you want contrast, a former Tyrone intercounty footballer died of flu a couple of years ago at the age of 34.

So are you advocating the same measures for flu? Lockdowns every winter?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 04:12:23 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.
If shielding the elderly cannot be achieved with 1,000 cases per day, how do you think it would be achieved with 10,000 or 15,000 cases a day?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 04:15:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 04:11:04 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 04:05:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 03:50:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 03:42:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 03:17:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

We had one Lockdown and now less restrictions that the previous lockdown, this isn't even close to last lockdown.. And who is happy with seasonal flu? if they were happy with it they'd save a few million and not bother creating new flu vaccinations every year to hand out for free!

So you'd be happy with elderly parents/relatives with underlying conditions just dying from Covid as its an acceptable death, and you wouldn't even bother with saving them? You've been brought up well I can tell  ;D

Elderly parents and relatives are subject to seasonal flu every season. We don't shut the economy down.

Are you happy for people to lose their jobs, their livelihoods, for the detrimental economic and societal consequences of lockdowns so a virus with a fatality rate of what could be something like 0.4% keeps people who are dying alive a few months longer?
Are you for real?

No.

I am deadly serious, people who are in their 80s with underlying health conditions have extremely limited life expectancy.

Save it for Niall Murphy's family - dare you to email him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52370667

Yet we live with seasonal flu.

Throwing victims names about to score points is petty but if you want contrast, a former Tyrone intercounty footballer died of flu a couple of years ago at the age of 34.

So are you advocating the same measures for flu? Lockdowns every winter?
We already know from your posts how little human life matters to you.  The GAA community rallied to email support for the Murphy family while Niall fought for his life.   I'm sure they would be interested in your take on things.  Our maybe  you don't want them to hear your morality?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 04:24:27 PM
Also there is a flu vaccine hitch helps in avoiding shielding the elderly and most vulnerable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 04:27:34 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 04:15:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 04:11:04 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 04:05:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 03:50:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 03:42:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 03:17:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

We had one Lockdown and now less restrictions that the previous lockdown, this isn't even close to last lockdown.. And who is happy with seasonal flu? if they were happy with it they'd save a few million and not bother creating new flu vaccinations every year to hand out for free!

So you'd be happy with elderly parents/relatives with underlying conditions just dying from Covid as its an acceptable death, and you wouldn't even bother with saving them? You've been brought up well I can tell  ;D

Elderly parents and relatives are subject to seasonal flu every season. We don't shut the economy down.

Are you happy for people to lose their jobs, their livelihoods, for the detrimental economic and societal consequences of lockdowns so a virus with a fatality rate of what could be something like 0.4% keeps people who are dying alive a few months longer?
Are you for real?

No.

I am deadly serious, people who are in their 80s with underlying health conditions have extremely limited life expectancy.

Save it for Niall Murphy's family - dare you to email him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52370667

Yet we live with seasonal flu.

Throwing victims names about to score points is petty but if you want contrast, a former Tyrone intercounty footballer died of flu a couple of years ago at the age of 34.

So are you advocating the same measures for flu? Lockdowns every winter?
We already know from your posts how little human life matters to you.  The GAA community rallied to email support for the Murphy family while Niall fought for his life.   I'm sure they would be interested in your take on things.  Our maybe  you don't want them to hear your morality?

I see you don't seem to have an issue with someone dying from flu though? You ignored that so I'll ask you again.

Are you going to advocate for winter lockdowns now to save lives from season flu or is it acceptable risk for people who die from flu?

Do you think lockdowns and restrictions have consequences? If we come into some point next year and we discover that suicide numbers had doubled in 2020, what would be your outlook then?

There are detrimnental effects of the measures taken to curb Covid, but you don't seem to be able to countenance that at all. Maybe you are the person who doesn't seem to value human life?

Save your hysterical outrage and actually start being pragmatic about things? Lockdowns have detrimental societal and economic problems.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 04:31:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 04:24:27 PM
Also there is a flu vaccine hitch helps in avoiding shielding the elderly and most vulnerable.

That has very limited uptake.

We live with flu.

What if we don't have a Covid vaccine for 7/8 years?

Would you be prepared to take a vaccine rushed through without proper testing?

Or would you be prepared to take a chance with a virus that probably has a fatality rate of 0.1% for people in your age bracket if you have no underlying health issues?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 04:42:30 PM
It has an uptake though.

Not sure what you are arguing at this point tbh.

Everyone thinks lockdown is bad. Things are out of control and in the absence of being able to figure out exactly wher the source of things is there is no choice. Aspects of it could be done differently yes but it needs done.

The flu thing is a nonsense. This thing is out of control. You have shown once in ten years that flu has overran the health service. This is looking at twice, minimum, in one year. That's a bit of a different magnitude of a stat really...

Then there is an understanding of flu etc. This thing is in early stages and longer term repercussions to people who got through it ok are yet to be understood.

Flu is bad and we live with an associated risk to it but it is a different beast entirely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 04:45:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 04:31:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 04:24:27 PM
Also there is a flu vaccine hitch helps in avoiding shielding the elderly and most vulnerable.

That has very limited uptake.

We live with flu.

What if we don't have a Covid vaccine for 7/8 years?

Would you be prepared to take a vaccine rushed through without proper testing?

Or would you be prepared to take a chance with a virus that probably has a fatality rate of 0.1% for people in your age bracket if you have no underlying health issues?

So happy for family to pass away or even pass it on to them and allow them to die as it's acceptable and we live with other conditions like flu, aids, malaria?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 05:09:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 04:45:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 04:31:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 04:24:27 PM
Also there is a flu vaccine hitch helps in avoiding shielding the elderly and most vulnerable.

That has very limited uptake.

We live with flu.

What if we don't have a Covid vaccine for 7/8 years?

Would you be prepared to take a vaccine rushed through without proper testing?

Or would you be prepared to take a chance with a virus that probably has a fatality rate of 0.1% for people in your age bracket if you have no underlying health issues?

So happy for family to pass away or even pass it on to them and allow them to die as it's acceptable and we live with other conditions like flu, aids, malaria?

That is a hysterical and very insulting post.

If I said you were happy for suicide rates to spike would that be true, would you take offence at such an allegation?

There are detrimental impacts of this approach we are taking with Covid and it will effect have drastic and detrimental effects on the economy and society as a result. The fact that you are going down that route to shut this debate down really typifies the type of lowlife you must be.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 05:11:48 PM
I see everybody is hysterical now except Angelo.  Time for an Irish Lives Matter campaign?   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 05:12:11 PM
2017/18 flu season was bad here we had nearly 12000 cases over 4700 in hospital over 190 in ICU and over 250 deaths. That's with a flu vaccine.

Those are the Undeniable Facts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 05:16:27 PM
How does that compare with the stats so far from this year though?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 05:22:04 PM
I note Angelo is also getting more insulting - usually a sign of having admitted defeat in any discussion.  Irish Lives Matter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 05:26:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

1. the flu is seasonal.. covid is not
2. the flu has a vaccine. covid does not
3. the flu does not overwhelm the health system.. despite lockdowns and restrictions covid clearly would overwhelm and has in some countries.

please stop comparing them.. they are not the same.

the reality is healthcare systems cannot cope if we went back to pre covid livesyles, it cannot cope with the level of restrictions and wfh that we have now. That is why we need a second lockdown imo.

what we do need to do is something that stops us from getting back to this position again. I dont know what that is.but i am.confident it is not herd immunity. My reason for this, is because despite restrictions etc. it has still got back in nursing homes which means letting it rip who cause way more people to die as we cannot silo vulnerable people.

can you tell me me other than rolling lockdowns what we should do?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 05:48:32 PM
Conor Glass is on!  Irish Lives Matter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 06:15:52 PM
More than 2,300 new cases on the island of Ireland today.  Keep safe.  Irish Lives Matter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:25:31 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 05:26:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

1. the flu is seasonal.. covid is not
2. the flu has a vaccine. covid does not
3. the flu does not overwhelm the health system.. despite lockdowns and restrictions covid clearly would overwhelm and has in some countries.

please stop comparing them.. they are not the same.

the reality is healthcare systems cannot cope if we went back to pre covid livesyles, it cannot cope with the level of restrictions and wfh that we have now. That is why we need a second lockdown imo.

what we do need to do is something that stops us from getting back to this position again. I dont know what that is.but i am.confident it is not herd immunity. My reason for this, is because despite restrictions etc. it has still got back in nursing homes which means letting it rip who cause way more people to die as we cannot silo vulnerable people.

can you tell me me other than rolling lockdowns what we should do?

1. The flu is seasonal - so why don't we go into seasonal lockdown?
2. The flu has a vaccine, uptake is at about 15-20%, vulnerable people get it, vulnerable people die from it. Healthy people get it, healthy people die from it.
3. The flu does overwhelm the health system

I think we should learn to live with it, particularly with the fatality rate falling in double digit multiples across Europe. Why do we live with the acceptable risk of death with flu every year. Can you tell me at what rate Covid comes with an acceptable risk because we clearly take an acceptable risk with flu every single year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 06:27:02 PM
The flu *sometimes* overwhelms the health system.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 06:31:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:25:31 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 05:26:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

1. the flu is seasonal.. covid is not
2. the flu has a vaccine. covid does not
3. the flu does not overwhelm the health system.. despite lockdowns and restrictions covid clearly would overwhelm and has in some countries.

please stop comparing them.. they are not the same.

the reality is healthcare systems cannot cope if we went back to pre covid livesyles, it cannot cope with the level of restrictions and wfh that we have now. That is why we need a second lockdown imo.

what we do need to do is something that stops us from getting back to this position again. I dont know what that is.but i am.confident it is not herd immunity. My reason for this, is because despite restrictions etc. it has still got back in nursing homes which means letting it rip who cause way more people to die as we cannot silo vulnerable people.

can you tell me me other than rolling lockdowns what we should do?

1. The flu is seasonal - so why don't we go into seasonal lockdown?
2. The flu has a vaccine, uptake is at about 15-20%, vulnerable people get it, vulnerable people die from it. Healthy people get it, healthy people die from it.
3. The flu does overwhelm the health system

I think we should learn to live with it, particularly with the fatality rate falling in double digit multiples across Europe. Why do we live with the acceptable risk of death with flu every year. Can you tell me at what rate Covid comes with an acceptable risk because we clearly take an acceptable risk with flu every single year.
As near to zero as possible, that is why nurses and doctors throughout the island are putting their lives on the line as we discsuss - while you just don't value life enough to make the effort or sacrifice.  Irish Lives Matter. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:31:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 06:27:02 PM
The flu *sometimes* overwhelms the health system.

Yet we live with it. The risk that the flu poses on an annual basis is deemed acceptable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:33:39 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 06:31:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:25:31 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 05:26:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

1. the flu is seasonal.. covid is not
2. the flu has a vaccine. covid does not
3. the flu does not overwhelm the health system.. despite lockdowns and restrictions covid clearly would overwhelm and has in some countries.

please stop comparing them.. they are not the same.

the reality is healthcare systems cannot cope if we went back to pre covid livesyles, it cannot cope with the level of restrictions and wfh that we have now. That is why we need a second lockdown imo.

what we do need to do is something that stops us from getting back to this position again. I dont know what that is.but i am.confident it is not herd immunity. My reason for this, is because despite restrictions etc. it has still got back in nursing homes which means letting it rip who cause way more people to die as we cannot silo vulnerable people.

can you tell me me other than rolling lockdowns what we should do?

1. The flu is seasonal - so why don't we go into seasonal lockdown?
2. The flu has a vaccine, uptake is at about 15-20%, vulnerable people get it, vulnerable people die from it. Healthy people get it, healthy people die from it.
3. The flu does overwhelm the health system

I think we should learn to live with it, particularly with the fatality rate falling in double digit multiples across Europe. Why do we live with the acceptable risk of death with flu every year. Can you tell me at what rate Covid comes with an acceptable risk because we clearly take an acceptable risk with flu every single year.
As near to zero as possible, that is why nurses and doctors throughout the island are putting their lives on the line as we discsuss - while you just don't value life enough to make the effort or sacrifice.  Irish Lives Matter.

Nurses and doctors putting their lives on the line?

Do they not do that day in day out or did they just merely start doing it the past year?

Way to patronise our healthcare workers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 06:41:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:25:31 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 05:26:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

1. the flu is seasonal.. covid is not
2. the flu has a vaccine. covid does not
3. the flu does not overwhelm the health system.. despite lockdowns and restrictions covid clearly would overwhelm and has in some countries.

please stop comparing them.. they are not the same.

the reality is healthcare systems cannot cope if we went back to pre covid livesyles, it cannot cope with the level of restrictions and wfh that we have now. That is why we need a second lockdown imo.

what we do need to do is something that stops us from getting back to this position again. I dont know what that is.but i am.confident it is not herd immunity. My reason for this, is because despite restrictions etc. it has still got back in nursing homes which means letting it rip who cause way more people to die as we cannot silo vulnerable people.

can you tell me me other than rolling lockdowns what we should do?

1. The flu is seasonal - so why don't we go into seasonal lockdown?
2. The flu has a vaccine, uptake is at about 15-20%, vulnerable people get it, vulnerable people die from it. Healthy people get it, healthy people die from it.
3. The flu does overwhelm the health system

I think we should learn to live with it, particularly with the fatality rate falling in double digit multiples across Europe. Why do we live with the acceptable risk of death with flu every year. Can you tell me at what rate Covid comes with an acceptable risk because we clearly take an acceptable risk with flu every single year.

we have to live with it? great answer! how do we live with it...

you are not comparing like for like with covid and the flu, we live with alot of things that cause hospitalisations and dead amd there are alot of knowns about those things but we dont know enough about covid and what we do know shows it to be worst .

forget the falling fatality rate as it not reflective of what you are proposing which is living with the virus, it is as a result if all the measures that have been.taken to date including lockdowns
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:51:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 06:41:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:25:31 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 05:26:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

1. the flu is seasonal.. covid is not
2. the flu has a vaccine. covid does not
3. the flu does not overwhelm the health system.. despite lockdowns and restrictions covid clearly would overwhelm and has in some countries.

please stop comparing them.. they are not the same.

the reality is healthcare systems cannot cope if we went back to pre covid livesyles, it cannot cope with the level of restrictions and wfh that we have now. That is why we need a second lockdown imo.

what we do need to do is something that stops us from getting back to this position again. I dont know what that is.but i am.confident it is not herd immunity. My reason for this, is because despite restrictions etc. it has still got back in nursing homes which means letting it rip who cause way more people to die as we cannot silo vulnerable people.

can you tell me me other than rolling lockdowns what we should do?

1. The flu is seasonal - so why don't we go into seasonal lockdown?
2. The flu has a vaccine, uptake is at about 15-20%, vulnerable people get it, vulnerable people die from it. Healthy people get it, healthy people die from it.
3. The flu does overwhelm the health system

I think we should learn to live with it, particularly with the fatality rate falling in double digit multiples across Europe. Why do we live with the acceptable risk of death with flu every year. Can you tell me at what rate Covid comes with an acceptable risk because we clearly take an acceptable risk with flu every single year.

we have to live with it? great answer! how do we live with it...

you are not comparing like for like with covid and the flu, we live with alot of things that cause hospitalisations and dead amd there are alot of knowns about those things but we dont know enough about covid and what we do know shows it to be worst .

forget the falling fatality rate as it not reflective of what you are proposing which is living with the virus, it is as a result if all the measures that have been.taken to date including lockdowns

So we live with a lot of things that cause death and hospitalisations? We accept those risks? At what point do we accept Covid?

Forget the falling fatality rate?????????????

Why forget the falling fatality, surely this is the one metric that actually matters?

What I am saying is that at what point do we accept that Covid is acceptable to live with?

You are completely ignoring the huge societal and economic problems that lockdowns and restrictions cause. This discussion is completely shelved, at what point do we say that the narrative has to switch from Covid.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 06:58:48 PM
That point is not yet and this "second wave" has shown that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 06:59:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:33:39 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 06:31:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:25:31 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 05:26:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

1. the flu is seasonal.. covid is not
2. the flu has a vaccine. covid does not
3. the flu does not overwhelm the health system.. despite lockdowns and restrictions covid clearly would overwhelm and has in some countries.

please stop comparing them.. they are not the same.

the reality is healthcare systems cannot cope if we went back to pre covid livesyles, it cannot cope with the level of restrictions and wfh that we have now. That is why we need a second lockdown imo.

what we do need to do is something that stops us from getting back to this position again. I dont know what that is.but i am.confident it is not herd immunity. My reason for this, is because despite restrictions etc. it has still got back in nursing homes which means letting it rip who cause way more people to die as we cannot silo vulnerable people.

can you tell me me other than rolling lockdowns what we should do?

1. The flu is seasonal - so why don't we go into seasonal lockdown?
2. The flu has a vaccine, uptake is at about 15-20%, vulnerable people get it, vulnerable people die from it. Healthy people get it, healthy people die from it.
3. The flu does overwhelm the health system

I think we should learn to live with it, particularly with the fatality rate falling in double digit multiples across Europe. Why do we live with the acceptable risk of death with flu every year. Can you tell me at what rate Covid comes with an acceptable risk because we clearly take an acceptable risk with flu every single year.
As near to zero as possible, that is why nurses and doctors throughout the island are putting their lives on the line as we discsuss - while you just don't value life enough to make the effort or sacrifice.  Irish Lives Matter.

Nurses and doctors putting their lives on the line?

Do they not do that day in day out or did they just merely start doing it the past year?

Way to patronise our healthcare workers.
You see there is this thing called PPE which never ran short until this pandemic - and you think there is no difference in the way our doctors and nurses have been trying to save lives in the past 7 months?   You question if doctors and nurses are putting their lives on the line?  You just don't value life enough, or their lives enough, to make the effort and sacrifice.  Probably too worried about money.  It is your right to think that way but it my right to call you out on a discussion board for your morality and distain for fellow Irish citizens.  Irish Lives Matter.   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 06:59:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 05:09:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 04:45:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 04:31:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 04:24:27 PM
Also there is a flu vaccine hitch helps in avoiding shielding the elderly and most vulnerable.

That has very limited uptake.

We live with flu.

What if we don't have a Covid vaccine for 7/8 years?

Would you be prepared to take a vaccine rushed through without proper testing?

Or would you be prepared to take a chance with a virus that probably has a fatality rate of 0.1% for people in your age bracket if you have no underlying health issues?

So happy for family to pass away or even pass it on to them and allow them to die as it's acceptable and we live with other conditions like flu, aids, malaria?

That is a hysterical and very insulting post.

If I said you were happy for suicide rates to spike would that be true, would you take offence at such an allegation?

There are detrimental impacts of this approach we are taking with Covid and it will effect have drastic and detrimental effects on the economy and society as a result. The fact that you are going down that route to shut this debate down really typifies the type of lowlife you must be.

Not going to answer the question then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 07:01:58 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 06:59:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:33:39 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 06:31:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:25:31 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 05:26:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

1. the flu is seasonal.. covid is not
2. the flu has a vaccine. covid does not
3. the flu does not overwhelm the health system.. despite lockdowns and restrictions covid clearly would overwhelm and has in some countries.

please stop comparing them.. they are not the same.

the reality is healthcare systems cannot cope if we went back to pre covid livesyles, it cannot cope with the level of restrictions and wfh that we have now. That is why we need a second lockdown imo.

what we do need to do is something that stops us from getting back to this position again. I dont know what that is.but i am.confident it is not herd immunity. My reason for this, is because despite restrictions etc. it has still got back in nursing homes which means letting it rip who cause way more people to die as we cannot silo vulnerable people.

can you tell me me other than rolling lockdowns what we should do?

1. The flu is seasonal - so why don't we go into seasonal lockdown?
2. The flu has a vaccine, uptake is at about 15-20%, vulnerable people get it, vulnerable people die from it. Healthy people get it, healthy people die from it.
3. The flu does overwhelm the health system

I think we should learn to live with it, particularly with the fatality rate falling in double digit multiples across Europe. Why do we live with the acceptable risk of death with flu every year. Can you tell me at what rate Covid comes with an acceptable risk because we clearly take an acceptable risk with flu every single year.
As near to zero as possible, that is why nurses and doctors throughout the island are putting their lives on the line as we discsuss - while you just don't value life enough to make the effort or sacrifice.  Irish Lives Matter.

Nurses and doctors putting their lives on the line?

Do they not do that day in day out or did they just merely start doing it the past year?

Way to patronise our healthcare workers.
You see there is this thing called PPE which never ran short until this pandemic - and you think there is no difference in the way our doctors and nurses have been trying to save lives in the past 7 months?   You question if doctors and nurses are putting their lives on the line?  You just don't value life enough, or their lives enough, to make the effort and sacrifice.  Probably too worried about money.  It is your right to think that way but it my right to call you out on a discussion board for your morality and distain for fellow Irish citizens.  Irish Lives Matter.

Listen mate, I'm not the one belittling and patronising healthcare workers - that's you. They do it every day they go to work, they didn't just start a few months back like you alluded to. So maybe you should take your condescending and belittling remarks back about them?



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 07:01:58 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 06:59:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:33:39 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 06:31:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:25:31 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 05:26:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

1. the flu is seasonal.. covid is not
2. the flu has a vaccine. covid does not
3. the flu does not overwhelm the health system.. despite lockdowns and restrictions covid clearly would overwhelm and has in some countries.

please stop comparing them.. they are not the same.

the reality is healthcare systems cannot cope if we went back to pre covid livesyles, it cannot cope with the level of restrictions and wfh that we have now. That is why we need a second lockdown imo.

what we do need to do is something that stops us from getting back to this position again. I dont know what that is.but i am.confident it is not herd immunity. My reason for this, is because despite restrictions etc. it has still got back in nursing homes which means letting it rip who cause way more people to die as we cannot silo vulnerable people.

can you tell me me other than rolling lockdowns what we should do?

1. The flu is seasonal - so why don't we go into seasonal lockdown?
2. The flu has a vaccine, uptake is at about 15-20%, vulnerable people get it, vulnerable people die from it. Healthy people get it, healthy people die from it.
3. The flu does overwhelm the health system

I think we should learn to live with it, particularly with the fatality rate falling in double digit multiples across Europe. Why do we live with the acceptable risk of death with flu every year. Can you tell me at what rate Covid comes with an acceptable risk because we clearly take an acceptable risk with flu every single year.
As near to zero as possible, that is why nurses and doctors throughout the island are putting their lives on the line as we discsuss - while you just don't value life enough to make the effort or sacrifice.  Irish Lives Matter.

Nurses and doctors putting their lives on the line?

Do they not do that day in day out or did they just merely start doing it the past year?

Way to patronise our healthcare workers.
You see there is this thing called PPE which never ran short until this pandemic - and you think there is no difference in the way our doctors and nurses have been trying to save lives in the past 7 months?   You question if doctors and nurses are putting their lives on the line?  You just don't value life enough, or their lives enough, to make the effort and sacrifice.  Probably too worried about money.  It is your right to think that way but it my right to call you out on a discussion board for your morality and distain for fellow Irish citizens.  Irish Lives Matter.

Listen mate, I'm not the one belittling and patronising healthcare workers - that's you. They do it every day they go to work, they didn't just start a few months back like you alluded to. So maybe you should take your condescending and belittling remarks back about them?
[/qu
I am not your mate - you will have a few less of them if they read your disgraceful posts.  You just don't value life enough, or the lives of our selfless, dedicated healthcare workers enough, to make the effort and sacrifice.  Probably too worried about money.  It is your right to think that way but it my right to call you out on a discussion board for your morality and distain for fellow Irish citizens.  Irish Lives Matter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 07:19:39 PM
Angelo - I am not your mate - you will have a few less of them if they read your disgraceful posts.  You just don't value life enough, or the lives of our selfless, dedicated healthcare workers enough, to make the effort and sacrifice.  Probably too worried about money.  It is your right to think that way but it my right to call you out on a discussion board for your morality and distain for fellow Irish citizens.  Irish Lives Matter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 07:27:14 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 07:16:52 PM

I am not your mate - you will have a few less of them if they read your disgraceful posts.  You just don't value life enough, or the lives of our selfless, dedicated healthcare workers enough, to make the effort and sacrifice.  Probably too worried about money.  It is your right to think that way but it my right to call you out on a discussion board for your morality and distain for fellow Irish citizens.  Irish Lives Matter.

My main worry is for people's health and wellbeing and I think lockdowns will have a much worse effect on society as whole than learning to live with Covid as an acceptable risk.

I don't have disdain for Irish people.

You seem to be just shouting illogical rambling now because you are unable to argue your points like an adult.

The more data that we are seeing being released about the virus should have people questioning our approach but when we have people with below average intelligence like yourself then that it's difficult for people to think about things sensibly and what the best balanced approach is.

Do you not accept that lockdown has huge societal and economic consequences? I keep asking this but a lot of you cowards are too afraid to actually address it? At what point does Covid have an acceptable risk?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 07:29:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:51:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 06:41:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:25:31 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 05:26:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

1. the flu is seasonal.. covid is not
2. the flu has a vaccine. covid does not
3. the flu does not overwhelm the health system.. despite lockdowns and restrictions covid clearly would overwhelm and has in some countries.

please stop comparing them.. they are not the same.

the reality is healthcare systems cannot cope if we went back to pre covid livesyles, it cannot cope with the level of restrictions and wfh that we have now. That is why we need a second lockdown imo.

what we do need to do is something that stops us from getting back to this position again. I dont know what that is.but i am.confident it is not herd immunity. My reason for this, is because despite restrictions etc. it has still got back in nursing homes which means letting it rip who cause way more people to die as we cannot silo vulnerable people.

can you tell me me other than rolling lockdowns what we should do?

1. The flu is seasonal - so why don't we go into seasonal lockdown?
2. The flu has a vaccine, uptake is at about 15-20%, vulnerable people get it, vulnerable people die from it. Healthy people get it, healthy people die from it.
3. The flu does overwhelm the health system

I think we should learn to live with it, particularly with the fatality rate falling in double digit multiples across Europe. Why do we live with the acceptable risk of death with flu every year. Can you tell me at what rate Covid comes with an acceptable risk because we clearly take an acceptable risk with flu every single year.

we have to live with it? great answer! how do we live with it...

you are not comparing like for like with covid and the flu, we live with alot of things that cause hospitalisations and dead amd there are alot of knowns about those things but we dont know enough about covid and what we do know shows it to be worst .

forget the falling fatality rate as it not reflective of what you are proposing which is living with the virus, it is as a result if all the measures that have been.taken to date including lockdowns

So we live with a lot of things that cause death and hospitalisations? We accept those risks? At what point do we accept Covid?

Forget the falling fatality rate?????????????

Why forget the falling fatality, surely this is the one metric that actually matters?

What I am saying is that at what point do we accept that Covid is acceptable to live with?

You are completely ignoring the huge societal and economic problems that lockdowns and restrictions cause. This discussion is completely shelved, at what point do we say that the narrative has to switch from Covid.

loads of questions no answers!!

i dont know when we accept the risk of covid. At some point i hope we will and the risk will be minimal


yes, forget fatiltiy rate you are predicting as it is as a result of all the actions we have taken. you are suggestting we live our pre covid lifes so then we would have a fatal rate higher than now as a result. Your predicted rate or current rate would not be same if we take what i think you are proposing.

we dont know what the fatality rate would be but it was higher in march april may.

what you are saying... is asking another question, how about deal with what you are suggesting and the implications of it.. however i am still unclear of what you are actually suggesting as all you have done is say live with it (how do we do that) and ask questions.

i am aware of the socio economic factors which is why i  said we need to do something different after this lockdown to ensure we are not back in the same position again. i dont have the answer to what that is but imo it is not herd immunity which is what i think you are sugesting..you might confirm that is your approach?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 07:37:47 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 07:29:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:51:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 06:41:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:25:31 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 05:26:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

1. the flu is seasonal.. covid is not
2. the flu has a vaccine. covid does not
3. the flu does not overwhelm the health system.. despite lockdowns and restrictions covid clearly would overwhelm and has in some countries.

please stop comparing them.. they are not the same.

the reality is healthcare systems cannot cope if we went back to pre covid livesyles, it cannot cope with the level of restrictions and wfh that we have now. That is why we need a second lockdown imo.

what we do need to do is something that stops us from getting back to this position again. I dont know what that is.but i am.confident it is not herd immunity. My reason for this, is because despite restrictions etc. it has still got back in nursing homes which means letting it rip who cause way more people to die as we cannot silo vulnerable people.

can you tell me me other than rolling lockdowns what we should do?

1. The flu is seasonal - so why don't we go into seasonal lockdown?
2. The flu has a vaccine, uptake is at about 15-20%, vulnerable people get it, vulnerable people die from it. Healthy people get it, healthy people die from it.
3. The flu does overwhelm the health system

I think we should learn to live with it, particularly with the fatality rate falling in double digit multiples across Europe. Why do we live with the acceptable risk of death with flu every year. Can you tell me at what rate Covid comes with an acceptable risk because we clearly take an acceptable risk with flu every single year.

we have to live with it? great answer! how do we live with it...

you are not comparing like for like with covid and the flu, we live with alot of things that cause hospitalisations and dead amd there are alot of knowns about those things but we dont know enough about covid and what we do know shows it to be worst .

forget the falling fatality rate as it not reflective of what you are proposing which is living with the virus, it is as a result if all the measures that have been.taken to date including lockdowns

So we live with a lot of things that cause death and hospitalisations? We accept those risks? At what point do we accept Covid?

Forget the falling fatality rate?????????????

Why forget the falling fatality, surely this is the one metric that actually matters?

What I am saying is that at what point do we accept that Covid is acceptable to live with?

You are completely ignoring the huge societal and economic problems that lockdowns and restrictions cause. This discussion is completely shelved, at what point do we say that the narrative has to switch from Covid.

loads of questions no answers!!

i dont know when we accept the risk of covid. At some point i hope we will and the risk will be minimal


yes, forget fatiltiy rate you are predicting as it is as a result of all the actions we have taken. you are suggestting we live our pre covid lifes so then we would have a fatal rate higher than now as a result. Your predicted rate or current rate would not be same if we take what i think you are proposing.

we dont know what the fatality rate would be but it was higher in march april may.

what you are saying... is asking another question, how about deal with what you are suggesting and the implications of it.. however i am still unclear of what you are actually suggesting as all you have done is say live with it (how do we do that) and ask questions.

i am aware of the socio economic factors which is why i  said we need to do something different after this lockdown to ensure we are not back in the same position again. i dont have the answer to what that is but imo it is not herd immunity which is what i think you are sugesting..you might confirm that is your approach?

Excatly, I've asked a lot of questions and you've been too much of a chicken to address them. Why is that?

We are in a second lockdown now, what difference is going to stop a third or fourth?

Do something different. I agree - we need to do something different to lockdowns.

You look across Europe now, you delve deeper into the figures - there are some interesting results.

In the UK the average age of Covid deaths was 82.4. The median age was higher than non-covid deaths.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/average-age-of-coronavirus-fatalities-is-82-pcwqrzdzz

At what point do we say that all the consequences of the way we are dealing with this issue far outweigh alternative options.

Is this not a complete consequence of complete lack of investment in providing proper healthcare from successive governments for decades. For fit and healthy people, Covid has such a remote chance of killing you, it probably equates to getting in to your and going on a 50 mile round trip and dying.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 07:46:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 07:37:47 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 07:29:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:51:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 06:41:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:25:31 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 05:26:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

1. the flu is seasonal.. covid is not
2. the flu has a vaccine. covid does not
3. the flu does not overwhelm the health system.. despite lockdowns and restrictions covid clearly would overwhelm and has in some countries.

please stop comparing them.. they are not the same.

the reality is healthcare systems cannot cope if we went back to pre covid livesyles, it cannot cope with the level of restrictions and wfh that we have now. That is why we need a second lockdown imo.

what we do need to do is something that stops us from getting back to this position again. I dont know what that is.but i am.confident it is not herd immunity. My reason for this, is because despite restrictions etc. it has still got back in nursing homes which means letting it rip who cause way more people to die as we cannot silo vulnerable people.

can you tell me me other than rolling lockdowns what we should do?

1. The flu is seasonal - so why don't we go into seasonal lockdown?
2. The flu has a vaccine, uptake is at about 15-20%, vulnerable people get it, vulnerable people die from it. Healthy people get it, healthy people die from it.
3. The flu does overwhelm the health system

I think we should learn to live with it, particularly with the fatality rate falling in double digit multiples across Europe. Why do we live with the acceptable risk of death with flu every year. Can you tell me at what rate Covid comes with an acceptable risk because we clearly take an acceptable risk with flu every single year.

we have to live with it? great answer! how do we live with it...

you are not comparing like for like with covid and the flu, we live with alot of things that cause hospitalisations and dead amd there are alot of knowns about those things but we dont know enough about covid and what we do know shows it to be worst .

forget the falling fatality rate as it not reflective of what you are proposing which is living with the virus, it is as a result if all the measures that have been.taken to date including lockdowns

So we live with a lot of things that cause death and hospitalisations? We accept those risks? At what point do we accept Covid?

Forget the falling fatality rate?????????????

Why forget the falling fatality, surely this is the one metric that actually matters?

What I am saying is that at what point do we accept that Covid is acceptable to live with?

You are completely ignoring the huge societal and economic problems that lockdowns and restrictions cause. This discussion is completely shelved, at what point do we say that the narrative has to switch from Covid.

loads of questions no answers!!

i dont know when we accept the risk of covid. At some point i hope we will and the risk will be minimal


yes, forget fatiltiy rate you are predicting as it is as a result of all the actions we have taken. you are suggestting we live our pre covid lifes so then we would have a fatal rate higher than now as a result. Your predicted rate or current rate would not be same if we take what i think you are proposing.

we dont know what the fatality rate would be but it was higher in march april may.

what you are saying... is asking another question, how about deal with what you are suggesting and the implications of it.. however i am still unclear of what you are actually suggesting as all you have done is say live with it (how do we do that) and ask questions.

i am aware of the socio economic factors which is why i  said we need to do something different after this lockdown to ensure we are not back in the same position again. i dont have the answer to what that is but imo it is not herd immunity which is what i think you are sugesting..you might confirm that is your approach?

Excatly, I've asked a lot of questions and you've been too much of a chicken to address them. Why is that?

We are in a second lockdown now, what difference is going to stop a third or fourth?

Do something different. I agree - we need to do something different to lockdowns.

You look across Europe now, you delve deeper into the figures - there are some interesting results.

In the UK the average age of Covid deaths was 82.4. The median age was higher than non-covid deaths.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/average-age-of-coronavirus-fatalities-is-82-pcwqrzdzz

At what point do we say that all the consequences of the way we are dealing with this issue far outweigh alternative options.

Is this not a complete consequence of complete lack of investment in providing proper healthcare from successive governments for decades. For fit and healthy people, Covid has such a remote chance of killing you, it probably equates to getting in to your and going on a 50 mile round trip and dying.

ill answer any question you ask just tell me what you are suggesting instead of a lockdown. i cannot answer your questions without knowing what your approach is.. if i know your approach i believe i can tell you why rolling lockdowns is better than it even though i dont believe rolling lockdowns is an answer.

which one? you.mention an alternative can you outline the alternative or confirm its herd imunity. its a bit rich calling me a chicken when you avoid.my questions.

1. rolling lockdowns
2. herd immunity
3. option 3?? please explain.

the lack of investment in healthcare is an issue but a moot point as we have to live with the reality of what we have.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 07:47:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 07:27:14 PM
Quote from: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 07:16:52 PM

I am not your mate - you will have a few less of them if they read your disgraceful posts.  You just don't value life enough, or the lives of our selfless, dedicated healthcare workers enough, to make the effort and sacrifice.  Probably too worried about money.  It is your right to think that way but it my right to call you out on a discussion board for your morality and distain for fellow Irish citizens.  Irish Lives Matter.

My main worry is for people's health and wellbeing and I think lockdowns will have a much worse effect on society as whole than learning to live with Covid as an acceptable risk.

I don't have disdain for Irish people.

You seem to be just shouting illogical rambling now because you are unable to argue your points like an adult.

The more data that we are seeing being released about the virus should have people questioning our approach but when we have people with below average intelligence like yourself then that it's difficult for people to think about things sensibly and what the best balanced approach is.

Do you not accept that lockdown has huge societal and economic consequences? I keep asking this but a lot of you cowards are too afraid to actually address it? At what point does Covid have an acceptable risk?
Angelo starts to crack.  The scientific and economic answer is when the R number is under 1 but since you don't value the current scientific contribution, that is wasted on you.  Cowards - really?   A coward could be someone, as you have admitted to in an earlier post, who would visit an ill loved one even though that loved one could die as a result of your visit.  That is a coward, Angelo - look in the mirror. It will probably crack as well.  Below average intelligence?!   Told you he was cracking!!!  What a sad, lonely man you must be, Angelo.  Anyhow, you have been given enough oxygen at this point - hope no-one on here will need oxygen when Angelo is in charge of health because if you are over 80 ......?!!  Irish Lives Matter.  Stay safe folks and thanks to those who continue to make the hard sacrifices.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 07:49:28 PM
Angelo starts to crack.  The scientific and economic answer is when the R number is under 1 but since you don't value the current scientific contribution, that is wasted on you.  Cowards - really?   A coward could be someone, as you have admitted to in an earlier post, who would visit an ill loved one even though that loved one could die as a result of your visit.  That is a coward, Angelo - look in the mirror. It will probably crack as well.  Below average intelligence?!   Told you he was cracking!!!  What a sad, lonely man you must be, Angelo.  Anyhow, you have been given enough oxygen at this point - hope no-one on here will need oxygen when Angelo is in charge of health because if you are over 80 ......?!!  Irish Lives Matter.  Stay safe folks and thanks to those who continue to make the hard sacrifices.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 08:04:20 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 07:46:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 07:37:47 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 07:29:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:51:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 06:41:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:25:31 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 05:26:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

1. the flu is seasonal.. covid is not
2. the flu has a vaccine. covid does not
3. the flu does not overwhelm the health system.. despite lockdowns and restrictions covid clearly would overwhelm and has in some countries.

please stop comparing them.. they are not the same.

the reality is healthcare systems cannot cope if we went back to pre covid livesyles, it cannot cope with the level of restrictions and wfh that we have now. That is why we need a second lockdown imo.

what we do need to do is something that stops us from getting back to this position again. I dont know what that is.but i am.confident it is not herd immunity. My reason for this, is because despite restrictions etc. it has still got back in nursing homes which means letting it rip who cause way more people to die as we cannot silo vulnerable people.

can you tell me me other than rolling lockdowns what we should do?

1. The flu is seasonal - so why don't we go into seasonal lockdown?
2. The flu has a vaccine, uptake is at about 15-20%, vulnerable people get it, vulnerable people die from it. Healthy people get it, healthy people die from it.
3. The flu does overwhelm the health system

I think we should learn to live with it, particularly with the fatality rate falling in double digit multiples across Europe. Why do we live with the acceptable risk of death with flu every year. Can you tell me at what rate Covid comes with an acceptable risk because we clearly take an acceptable risk with flu every single year.

we have to live with it? great answer! how do we live with it...

you are not comparing like for like with covid and the flu, we live with alot of things that cause hospitalisations and dead amd there are alot of knowns about those things but we dont know enough about covid and what we do know shows it to be worst .

forget the falling fatality rate as it not reflective of what you are proposing which is living with the virus, it is as a result if all the measures that have been.taken to date including lockdowns

So we live with a lot of things that cause death and hospitalisations? We accept those risks? At what point do we accept Covid?

Forget the falling fatality rate?????????????

Why forget the falling fatality, surely this is the one metric that actually matters?

What I am saying is that at what point do we accept that Covid is acceptable to live with?

You are completely ignoring the huge societal and economic problems that lockdowns and restrictions cause. This discussion is completely shelved, at what point do we say that the narrative has to switch from Covid.

loads of questions no answers!!

i dont know when we accept the risk of covid. At some point i hope we will and the risk will be minimal


yes, forget fatiltiy rate you are predicting as it is as a result of all the actions we have taken. you are suggestting we live our pre covid lifes so then we would have a fatal rate higher than now as a result. Your predicted rate or current rate would not be same if we take what i think you are proposing.

we dont know what the fatality rate would be but it was higher in march april may.

what you are saying... is asking another question, how about deal with what you are suggesting and the implications of it.. however i am still unclear of what you are actually suggesting as all you have done is say live with it (how do we do that) and ask questions.

i am aware of the socio economic factors which is why i  said we need to do something different after this lockdown to ensure we are not back in the same position again. i dont have the answer to what that is but imo it is not herd immunity which is what i think you are sugesting..you might confirm that is your approach?

Excatly, I've asked a lot of questions and you've been too much of a chicken to address them. Why is that?

We are in a second lockdown now, what difference is going to stop a third or fourth?

Do something different. I agree - we need to do something different to lockdowns.

You look across Europe now, you delve deeper into the figures - there are some interesting results.

In the UK the average age of Covid deaths was 82.4. The median age was higher than non-covid deaths.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/average-age-of-coronavirus-fatalities-is-82-pcwqrzdzz

At what point do we say that all the consequences of the way we are dealing with this issue far outweigh alternative options.

Is this not a complete consequence of complete lack of investment in providing proper healthcare from successive governments for decades. For fit and healthy people, Covid has such a remote chance of killing you, it probably equates to getting in to your and going on a 50 mile round trip and dying.

ill answer any question you ask just tell me what you are suggesting instead of a lockdown. i cannot answer your questions without knowing what your approach is.. if i know your approach i believe i can tell you why rolling lockdowns is better than it even though i dont believe rolling lockdowns is an answer.

which one? you.mention an alternative can you outline the alternative or confirm its herd imunity. its a bit rich calling me a chicken when you avoid.my questions.

1. rolling lockdowns
2. herd immunity
3. option 3?? please explain.

the lack of investment in healthcare is an issue but a moot point as we have to live with the reality of what we have.

My approach would be to live with things as they are.

I'm talking about measures which we have been living with since the first lockdown rolled down, outlets reopening with limited capacity and social distancing practiced and we gradually roll more and more back as things go on.

At what level do we learn to live with this virus, we are told there is no quick fix solution, we are told there is no definitive timeline, we are told it could be years before a vaccine comes, we are told a vaccine might never come. So what do we do with that knowledge? Hide under our beds until such time as the virus burns itself out or a vaccine is created or try and get on with our lives with the virus?

We live with risks that threaten lives in our everyday lives, at which point does Covid come into that realm? That is the important question we should be asking ourselves.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 08:13:57 PM
As they are equals during a "wave". Things are not working as they are.

Do you mean with distancing and masks, limited numbers at sport etc or just let rip?

Numbers are too much. We can't do as we are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 08:17:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 08:04:20 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 07:46:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 07:37:47 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 07:29:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:51:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 06:41:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 06:25:31 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 05:26:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 01:59:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 17, 2020, 01:31:01 PM
I never mentioned herd immunity. I'm for shielding the elderly, implementing the basic measures and trying to get on with things.

At present we have no end game. Lock down for 6 weeks, open up for 2 months and lock down again next March is not a logical, economical or proportionate strategy. The cure will do more damage than the disease.

your first paragraph is not based in reality, it is not possible to protect the vulnerable or shield the elderly and get on with things. We have seen that since the last lockdown as  we now have cases in numerous nursing homes and hospitals filling quickly.

i agree roling lockdowns arent the answer, the only answer to reducing numbers that i can see that worked so far is a lockdown. The question is what should we do differently, what can we do and how good are we are adhering to what we need to do when this lockdown is over to prevent what is happening now happening again.

your last sentence again is a joke and not basd in reality either but id like to know why you think that? Based on what we know so far.

What is based in reality?

The reality at the minute seems to be rolling lockdowns and if the data returns to us in a few months that the fatality rate of this virus is something like 0.4% and most of those who die from it are eldery and/or have underlying health conditions that have limited life expectancy- at what point do we say that  what we are doing is counter-productive?

What does it take for us to look at this differently? We are quite happy to allow seasonal flu overwhelm the health sector every year and take lives.

1. the flu is seasonal.. covid is not
2. the flu has a vaccine. covid does not
3. the flu does not overwhelm the health system.. despite lockdowns and restrictions covid clearly would overwhelm and has in some countries.

please stop comparing them.. they are not the same.

the reality is healthcare systems cannot cope if we went back to pre covid livesyles, it cannot cope with the level of restrictions and wfh that we have now. That is why we need a second lockdown imo.

what we do need to do is something that stops us from getting back to this position again. I dont know what that is.but i am.confident it is not herd immunity. My reason for this, is because despite restrictions etc. it has still got back in nursing homes which means letting it rip who cause way more people to die as we cannot silo vulnerable people.

can you tell me me other than rolling lockdowns what we should do?

1. The flu is seasonal - so why don't we go into seasonal lockdown?
2. The flu has a vaccine, uptake is at about 15-20%, vulnerable people get it, vulnerable people die from it. Healthy people get it, healthy people die from it.
3. The flu does overwhelm the health system

I think we should learn to live with it, particularly with the fatality rate falling in double digit multiples across Europe. Why do we live with the acceptable risk of death with flu every year. Can you tell me at what rate Covid comes with an acceptable risk because we clearly take an acceptable risk with flu every single year.

we have to live with it? great answer! how do we live with it...

you are not comparing like for like with covid and the flu, we live with alot of things that cause hospitalisations and dead amd there are alot of knowns about those things but we dont know enough about covid and what we do know shows it to be worst .

forget the falling fatality rate as it not reflective of what you are proposing which is living with the virus, it is as a result if all the measures that have been.taken to date including lockdowns

So we live with a lot of things that cause death and hospitalisations? We accept those risks? At what point do we accept Covid?

Forget the falling fatality rate?????????????

Why forget the falling fatality, surely this is the one metric that actually matters?

What I am saying is that at what point do we accept that Covid is acceptable to live with?

You are completely ignoring the huge societal and economic problems that lockdowns and restrictions cause. This discussion is completely shelved, at what point do we say that the narrative has to switch from Covid.

loads of questions no answers!!

i dont know when we accept the risk of covid. At some point i hope we will and the risk will be minimal


yes, forget fatiltiy rate you are predicting as it is as a result of all the actions we have taken. you are suggestting we live our pre covid lifes so then we would have a fatal rate higher than now as a result. Your predicted rate or current rate would not be same if we take what i think you are proposing.

we dont know what the fatality rate would be but it was higher in march april may.

what you are saying... is asking another question, how about deal with what you are suggesting and the implications of it.. however i am still unclear of what you are actually suggesting as all you have done is say live with it (how do we do that) and ask questions.

i am aware of the socio economic factors which is why i  said we need to do something different after this lockdown to ensure we are not back in the same position again. i dont have the answer to what that is but imo it is not herd immunity which is what i think you are sugesting..you might confirm that is your approach?

Excatly, I've asked a lot of questions and you've been too much of a chicken to address them. Why is that?

We are in a second lockdown now, what difference is going to stop a third or fourth?

Do something different. I agree - we need to do something different to lockdowns.

You look across Europe now, you delve deeper into the figures - there are some interesting results.

In the UK the average age of Covid deaths was 82.4. The median age was higher than non-covid deaths.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/average-age-of-coronavirus-fatalities-is-82-pcwqrzdzz

At what point do we say that all the consequences of the way we are dealing with this issue far outweigh alternative options.

Is this not a complete consequence of complete lack of investment in providing proper healthcare from successive governments for decades. For fit and healthy people, Covid has such a remote chance of killing you, it probably equates to getting in to your and going on a 50 mile round trip and dying.

ill answer any question you ask just tell me what you are suggesting instead of a lockdown. i cannot answer your questions without knowing what your approach is.. if i know your approach i believe i can tell you why rolling lockdowns is better than it even though i dont believe rolling lockdowns is an answer.

which one? you.mention an alternative can you outline the alternative or confirm its herd imunity. its a bit rich calling me a chicken when you avoid.my questions.

1. rolling lockdowns
2. herd immunity
3. option 3?? please explain.

the lack of investment in healthcare is an issue but a moot point as we have to live with the reality of what we have.

My approach would be to live with things as they are.

I'm talking about measures which we have been living with since the first lockdown rolled down, outlets reopening with limited capacity and social distancing practiced and we gradually roll more and more back as things go on.

At what level do we learn to live with this virus, we are told there is no quick fix solution, we are told there is no definitive timeline, we are told it could be years before a vaccine comes, we are told a vaccine might never come. So what do we do with that knowledge? Hide under our beds until such time as the virus burns itself out or a vaccine is created or try and get on with our lives with the virus?

We live with risks that threaten lives in our everyday lives, at which point does Covid come into that realm? That is the important question we should be asking ourselves.

What you are suggesting has seen the number grow from single digits to over 1000 now. if we continued on your proposed route what would the number grow to and when would the hospital be overun and how many would die as a result. would people not then start to restrict themselves to protect their own live, knowing the health system couldnt help them. We must also remember long term effects are not fully known and who those effect is not known, which will effect peoples thinking.

The socio economic side i dont think people would go back to their normal lives in enough numbers to keep businesses going. As the government wouldnt be restricting businesses, government supports would stop, businesses would fail and unemployment would soar. Also due to higher levels in hospitals and probably dying, people would be more reluctant  to go outside to theses businesses.

the reality is not enough people are adhering to guidelines so  expecting this to be different now than it has been the last few months would be a massive leap so the measures have failed. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on October 17, 2020, 08:31:49 PM
Swear this is my last post here - but if you want a laugh, read the recent post on the Celtic Thread from illdecide.  Says it all really, no more evidence required!!   :-X
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 08:34:13 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 08:13:57 PM
As they are equals during a "wave". Things are not working as they are.

Do you mean with distancing and masks, limited numbers at sport etc or just let rip?

Numbers are too much. We can't do as we are.

I think we have to live our lives in a different way and that is with masks, limited numbers at events, social distancing, hand washing etc.

The virus is there, we can either hide under our beds in a lockdown scenario, have the case numbers fall again, gradually open up again and have the number soar and go back into another lockdown and repeat this cycle again and again and again until such time as science solves it, which could be years or could be never.

Or we can just try our best to get on with things.

We've probably had around 20k cases in the past 2 months now and around 40-50 recorded deaths. I'm sure deaths will go up now but the data that lies behind those deaths is important, the age profile, the underlying health issues are all vital. Is Covid being classifed as the cause of death when it only was a minor contributing factor?

How many more lockdowns do you think we can do?

How many businesses and jobs can survive with lockdowns and restrictive measures associated with such and we all need to know what we are making all these sacrifices for?

These are the questions we must ask ourselves when we look at our approach.

Just out of interest and I have no agenda here, but do you have an opinion on the avg age of Covid deaths being 82? How much of a life expectancy does your avg 82 year old have? What sort of underlying health conditions does your avg 82 yr old have?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 08:46:17 PM
The lockdowns need to evolve as we learn. Ideally they don't exist but that is not going to be the case for a while. I don't fully agree with some aspects tbh but what can you do.

The average age of death etc shouldn't imo be the concern here. Health service burden, potential long term side effects and things like that should be. Basically there needs to be more understanding yet and long term heart and lung issues are a big concern independent of age.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 17, 2020, 08:57:11 PM
The average age of Covid victims may be high, but the average age of health care staff who died is in their 50s.If you allow a load of it around then you place the whole health care sector at this risk.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 09:30:45 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 08:46:17 PM
The lockdowns need to evolve as we learn. Ideally they don't exist but that is not going to be the case for a while. I don't fully agree with some aspects tbh but what can you do.

The average age of death etc shouldn't imo be the concern here. Health service burden, potential long term side effects and things like that should be. Basically there needs to be more understanding yet and long term heart and lung issues are a big concern independent of age.

The potential long term effects of lockdown and burdens they place on people and the economy are huge. People can become utterly consumer and obsessed about Covid that they cannot see the woods from the trees.

How long will it take us to see about long term heart and lung disease? A decade? Life is short and if we lived our life with this level of worry in every asepct we would probably never leave our house.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 09:56:57 PM
They've already been seen. They're long term in that the people who have them will have to live with them for the long term.

I don't live my life in fear but am privileged enough to be able to work from home. I wouldn't fancy working in a factory for example.

There is balance somewhere. While there are so many unknowns you need to err on the side of caution. Your suggestion doesn't have balance though. (Assuming it is let rip which it seems to be)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 10:17:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 09:56:57 PM
They've already been seen. They're long term in that the people who have them will have to live with them for the long term.

I don't live my life in fear but am privileged enough to be able to work from home. I wouldn't fancy working in a factory for example.

There is balance somewhere. While there are so many unknowns you need to err on the side of caution. Your suggestion doesn't have balance though. (Assuming it is let rip which it seems to be)

its inadvertently let it rip, as from what i can gather it is to do what we were doing pre the increase in numbers but expect a different outcome and if some 80+ yr old people die so be it, they had a good life., the rest of us can enjoy our lifes. Also dont worry about what happens if numbers increase to a level that hospitals cannot deal with.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 17, 2020, 10:23:55 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 17, 2020, 09:30:45 PM
How long will it take us to see about long term heart and lung disease? A decade? Life is short and if we lived our life with this level of worry in every asepct we would probably never leave our house.

Yeah, like a dose of Covid does your heart or lungs any good.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 10:31:23 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 10:17:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 09:56:57 PM
They've already been seen. They're long term in that the people who have them will have to live with them for the long term.

I don't live my life in fear but am privileged enough to be able to work from home. I wouldn't fancy working in a factory for example.

There is balance somewhere. While there are so many unknowns you need to err on the side of caution. Your suggestion doesn't have balance though. (Assuming it is let rip which it seems to be)

its inadvertently let it rip, as from what i can gather it is to do what we were doing pre the increase in numbers but expect a different outcome and if some 80+ yr old people die so be it, they had a good life., the rest of us can enjoy our lifes. Also dont worry about what happens if numbers increase to a level that hospitals cannot deal with.
One of the most insidiously abhorrent aspects of the Covid deniers is the way they're attempting to portray themselves as being concerned with the well being of society when they're actually pushing an anarcho-capitalist, individualist, US right-wing libertarian view of the world which gives not one flying piece of excrement about society

A total lie, in other words

It's really gross
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years


See I don't think this is fair at all MR2. I've lost two very club mates at the same age in the past decade, from cancer. Covid might be dangerous, it might be topical, but it must not enjoy a monopoly on compassion.

One of Angelo's recurring points in the past 50 pages has been that Covid is trumping all other forms of essential care, and querying whether we will regret this move. Please don't now evolve this into Covid trumping all other forms of compassion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 10:45:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 10:31:23 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 10:17:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 09:56:57 PM
They've already been seen. They're long term in that the people who have them will have to live with them for the long term.

I don't live my life in fear but am privileged enough to be able to work from home. I wouldn't fancy working in a factory for example.

There is balance somewhere. While there are so many unknowns you need to err on the side of caution. Your suggestion doesn't have balance though. (Assuming it is let rip which it seems to be)

its inadvertently let it rip, as from what i can gather it is to do what we were doing pre the increase in numbers but expect a different outcome and if some 80+ yr old people die so be it, they had a good life., the rest of us can enjoy our lifes. Also dont worry about what happens if numbers increase to a level that hospitals cannot deal with.
One of the most insidiously abhorrent aspects of the Covid deniers is the way they're attempting to portray themselves as being concerned with the well being of society when they're actually pushing an anarcho-capitalist, individualist, US right-wing libertarian view of the world which gives not one flying piece of excrement about society

A total lie, in other words

It's really gross

What's also gross:

1. That you can only deal in extremes and will respond to queries and frustrations with government Covid policy, by labelling posters as Covid deniers.

2. That you can't just leave it at that, but you also have to add in a splurge of nonsensical bile about politics, even though political options in Ireland are remarkably centric.

3. That you feel the need to post this identical message every 2-3 days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 10:50:53 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years


See I don't think this is fair at all MR2. I've lost two very club mates at the same age in the past decade, from cancer. Covid might be dangerous, it might be topical, but it must not enjoy a monopoly on compassion.

One of Angelo's recurring points in the past 50 pages has been that Covid is trumping all other forms of essential care, and querying whether we will regret this move. Please don't now evolve this into Covid trumping all other forms of compassion.

If that is one of his points then overloading the health system with covid cases because he wants people to live does not help people that need essential care it has the opposite effect.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 10:59:06 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 10:50:53 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years


See I don't think this is fair at all MR2. I've lost two very club mates at the same age in the past decade, from cancer. Covid might be dangerous, it might be topical, but it must not enjoy a monopoly on compassion.

One of Angelo's recurring points in the past 50 pages has been that Covid is trumping all other forms of essential care, and querying whether we will regret this move. Please don't now evolve this into Covid trumping all other forms of compassion.

If that is one of his points then overloading the health system with covid cases because he wants people to live does not help people that need essential care it has the opposite effect.



No doubt.

That's the conundrum. But he's still not wrong to point out that there is a conundrum. Covid clearly has the potential to overstretch (and then some) the reactive purpose of a health service. But lockdowns have the potential to decimate the proactive care purpose of a health service.

Until there's more data I do think we have to follow the current course, much as it frustrates me. It's going to be a very interesting winter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:00:22 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 10:45:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 10:31:23 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 10:17:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 17, 2020, 09:56:57 PM
They've already been seen. They're long term in that the people who have them will have to live with them for the long term.

I don't live my life in fear but am privileged enough to be able to work from home. I wouldn't fancy working in a factory for example.

There is balance somewhere. While there are so many unknowns you need to err on the side of caution. Your suggestion doesn't have balance though. (Assuming it is let rip which it seems to be)

its inadvertently let it rip, as from what i can gather it is to do what we were doing pre the increase in numbers but expect a different outcome and if some 80+ yr old people die so be it, they had a good life., the rest of us can enjoy our lifes. Also dont worry about what happens if numbers increase to a level that hospitals cannot deal with.
One of the most insidiously abhorrent aspects of the Covid deniers is the way they're attempting to portray themselves as being concerned with the well being of society when they're actually pushing an anarcho-capitalist, individualist, US right-wing libertarian view of the world which gives not one flying piece of excrement about society

A total lie, in other words

It's really gross

What's also gross:

1. That you can only deal in extremes and will respond to queries and frustrations with government Covid policy, by labelling posters as Covid deniers.

2. That you can't just leave it at that, but you also have to add in a splurge of nonsensical bile about politics, even though political options in Ireland are remarkably centric.

3. That you feel the need to post this identical message every 2-3 days.
There's nothing extreme in what I said at all, it's the reality

You seem to hate reality being pointed out - which seems pretty extreme to me

Also you seem to be unable to deal in anything other than straw men

Speaking of straw men, one of your most noteworthy contributions to this thread was to portray the reduction in crowd sizes at sporting events as a bad faith attack on the GAA

That contribution didn't age well, did it?

Sadly that sort of stuff has been part of a rich tapestry where you are concerned


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:04:05 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years


See I don't think this is fair at all MR2. I've lost two very club mates at the same age in the past decade, from cancer. Covid might be dangerous, it might be topical, but it must not enjoy a monopoly on compassion.

One of Angelo's recurring points in the past 50 pages has been that Covid is trumping all other forms of essential care, and querying whether we will regret this move. Please don't now evolve this into Covid trumping all other forms of compassion.
So how would a large rise in Covid cases improve care for cancer patients?

Unless one thinks it would, there's literally no reason to make the point, and thus the point becomes bankrupt

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 11:04:51 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 10:59:06 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 17, 2020, 10:50:53 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years


See I don't think this is fair at all MR2. I've lost two very club mates at the same age in the past decade, from cancer. Covid might be dangerous, it might be topical, but it must not enjoy a monopoly on compassion.

One of Angelo's recurring points in the past 50 pages has been that Covid is trumping all other forms of essential care, and querying whether we will regret this move. Please don't now evolve this into Covid trumping all other forms of compassion.

If that is one of his points then overloading the health system with covid cases because he wants people to live does not help people that need essential care it has the opposite effect.



No doubt.

That's the conundrum. But he's still not wrong to point out that there is a conundrum. Covid clearly has the potential to overstretch (and then some) the reactive purpose of a health service. But lockdowns have the potential to decimate the proactive care purpose of a health service.

Until there's more data I do think we have to follow the current course, much as it frustrates me. It's going to be a very interesting winter.

its not the lockdown that decimates the proactive care. the lockdowns are as a result of increases in people getting covid. the increases in the level of covid are the reason for the decimate proactive care not lockdowns, lockdowns are a result of incresased covid the same as decimated proactive care are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:05:23 PM
Sid if cases are rising all across Europe, which they are, you really should start asking yourself whether limiting crowds at outdoor venues for a sport which is only played in Ireland, is part of that pattern.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:07:26 PM
Padraig it's a fair point - what I should have said it's that an emphasis on Covid that decimates the potential of proactive care.

It's also fully understandable approach in the short term.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:10:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:04:05 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years


See I don't think this is fair at all MR2. I've lost two very club mates at the same age in the past decade, from cancer. Covid might be dangerous, it might be topical, but it must not enjoy a monopoly on compassion.

One of Angelo's recurring points in the past 50 pages has been that Covid is trumping all other forms of essential care, and querying whether we will regret this move. Please don't now evolve this into Covid trumping all other forms of compassion.
So how would a large rise in Covid cases improve care for cancer patients?

Unless one thinks it would, there's literally no reason to make the point, and thus the point becomes bankrupt

At no point have I suggested it would.

I did point out that healthcare currently has a conundrum. I also suggested that I agree with the current policy even if it frustrates me.

But I guess you're out looking for a fight. That's what you do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:13:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:05:23 PM
Sid if cases are rising all across Europe, which they are, you really should start asking yourself whether limiting crowds at outdoor venues for a sport which is only played in Ireland, is part of that pattern.
Go back to the point

You portrayed the reduction in crowd sizes as a bad faith attack on the GAA

Crowds at GAA matches as well as celebrations have contributed, and likely quite significantly, to the spread of Covid

You were simply wrong in what you said - it was not a bad faith attack on the GAA at all but one element of a good faith attempt to try and stop the spread of the virus - but your attack was an obvious bad faith character assassination on the part of those making the regulations

It is in fact the GAA which has contributed to a bad faith attack on society by continually cocking two fingers at the effort to stop the spread of the virus

An organisation which is supposed to be about community well being decided it didn't care not just about the well being of the country, but of the very local communities its supposed to represent

And, sadly, neanderthal attitudes like yours were front and centre in that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:17:20 PM
By the way Sid. In case you deliberately missed it. When I described you as dealing in extremes, it is in how you label anyone querying government policy on Covid as a "Covid denier". That's extremism of the most extreme form. Basically you contort anyone raising an eyebrow to your viewpoint into being on your right, and therefore a right wing fascist murdering **** who hates people, and can only feel like this because they've been duped by some websites only you've ever heard of.

You're an extremist buddy. Property extreme.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:22:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:13:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:05:23 PM
Sid if cases are rising all across Europe, which they are, you really should start asking yourself whether limiting crowds at outdoor venues for a sport which is only played in Ireland, is part of that pattern.
Go back to the point

You portrayed the reduction in crowd sizes as a bad faith attack on the GAA

Crowds at GAA matches as well as celebrations have contributed, and likely quite significantly, to the spread of Covid

You were simply wrong in what you said - it was not a bad faith attack on the GAA at all but one element of a good faith attempt to try and stop the spread of the virus - but your attack was an obvious bad faith character assassination on the part of those making the regulations

It is in fact the GAA which has contributed to a bad faith attack on society by continually cocking two fingers at the effort to stop the spread of the virus

An organisation which is supposed to be about community well being decided it didn't care not just about the well being of the country, but of the very local communities its supposed to represent

And, sadly, neanderthal attitudes like yours were front and centre in that

Sid I'm entirely on point.

Covid cases are rising across Europe. Everywhere. The pattern you'll find is that humans are social creatures, and will go out of their way to meet each other. The pattern you won't find is that places where attendance at outdoor sporting venues was strictly limited to 200 people, have kept it under control.

Only one of us is dealing in "it is in fact".

The other has a narrative to fulfil.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:23:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:10:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:04:05 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years


See I don't think this is fair at all MR2. I've lost two very club mates at the same age in the past decade, from cancer. Covid might be dangerous, it might be topical, but it must not enjoy a monopoly on compassion.

One of Angelo's recurring points in the past 50 pages has been that Covid is trumping all other forms of essential care, and querying whether we will regret this move. Please don't now evolve this into Covid trumping all other forms of compassion.
So how would a large rise in Covid cases improve care for cancer patients?

Unless one thinks it would, there's literally no reason to make the point, and thus the point becomes bankrupt

At no point have I suggested it would.

I did point out that healthcare currently has a conundrum. I also suggested that I agree with the current policy even if it frustrates me.

But I guess you're out looking for a fight. That's what you do.

By mentioning the "point" as a serious one worthy of respect, there is a logical implication there that one should at least consider the possibility that cancer patients or patients suffering from other non-Covid medical problems would get better care in a situation where Covid spread continues to increase

But there is no possibility of that happening - if Covid spread continues to increase, it is all but certain that care for those patients will be worse

Therefore there is no reason to mention a ludicrous point as being something being worthy of consideration

Because the point is self-evidently ludicrous and not worthy of discussion

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:33:00 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:22:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:13:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:05:23 PM
Sid if cases are rising all across Europe, which they are, you really should start asking yourself whether limiting crowds at outdoor venues for a sport which is only played in Ireland, is part of that pattern.
Go back to the point

You portrayed the reduction in crowd sizes as a bad faith attack on the GAA

Crowds at GAA matches as well as celebrations have contributed, and likely quite significantly, to the spread of Covid

You were simply wrong in what you said - it was not a bad faith attack on the GAA at all but one element of a good faith attempt to try and stop the spread of the virus - but your attack was an obvious bad faith character assassination on the part of those making the regulations

It is in fact the GAA which has contributed to a bad faith attack on society by continually cocking two fingers at the effort to stop the spread of the virus

An organisation which is supposed to be about community well being decided it didn't care not just about the well being of the country, but of the very local communities its supposed to represent

And, sadly, neanderthal attitudes like yours were front and centre in that

Sid I'm entirely on point.

Covid cases are rising across Europe. Everywhere. The pattern you'll find is that humans are social creatures, and will go out of their way to meet each other. The pattern you won't find is that places where attendance at outdoor sporting venues was strictly limited to 200 people, have kept it under control.

Only one of us is dealing in "it is in fact".

The other has a narrative to fulfil.
Humans are indeed social creatures, but the more close social contact there is during this pandemic, the more the virus will spread

The pattern you'll find is that the more people avoid close social contact, the less the virus has the potential to spread

That's a fact, not narrative

But what else is portraying a reduction in crowd size as "an attack on the GAA" other than a bullshit narrative

What you were engaging in was Covid NIMBYism

You should take up this point about us being social creatures with the virus itself, maybe it'll listen and make an exception where it won't spread during club GAA games and celebrations, a sort of a ceasefire, maybe a bit like those three day IRA ceasefires at Christmas back in the day




Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:35:05 PM
Do you really find it ludicrous to consider that a health service might retain a provision for breast and prostate cancer screening, during a pandemic?

Is a health service really a single homogenous entity that should focus solely on one problem at a time?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:41:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:33:00 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:22:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:13:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:05:23 PM
Sid if cases are rising all across Europe, which they are, you really should start asking yourself whether limiting crowds at outdoor venues for a sport which is only played in Ireland, is part of that pattern.
Go back to the point

You portrayed the reduction in crowd sizes as a bad faith attack on the GAA

Crowds at GAA matches as well as celebrations have contributed, and likely quite significantly, to the spread of Covid

You were simply wrong in what you said - it was not a bad faith attack on the GAA at all but one element of a good faith attempt to try and stop the spread of the virus - but your attack was an obvious bad faith character assassination on the part of those making the regulations

It is in fact the GAA which has contributed to a bad faith attack on society by continually cocking two fingers at the effort to stop the spread of the virus

An organisation which is supposed to be about community well being decided it didn't care not just about the well being of the country, but of the very local communities its supposed to represent

And, sadly, neanderthal attitudes like yours were front and centre in that

Sid I'm entirely on point.

Covid cases are rising across Europe. Everywhere. The pattern you'll find is that humans are social creatures, and will go out of their way to meet each other. The pattern you won't find is that places where attendance at outdoor sporting venues was strictly limited to 200 people, have kept it under control.

Only one of us is dealing in "it is in fact".

The other has a narrative to fulfil.
Humans are indeed social creatures, but the more close social contact there is during this pandemic, the more the virus will spread

The pattern you'll find is that the more people avoid close social contact, the less the virus has the potential to spread

That's a fact, not narrative

But what else is portraying a reduction in crowd size as "an attack on the GAA" other than a bullshit narrative

What you were engaging in was Covid NIMBYism

You should take up this point about us being social creatures with the virus itself, maybe it'll listen and make an exception where it won't spread during club GAA games and celebrations, a sort of a ceasefire, maybe a bit like those three day IRA ceasefires at Christmas back in the day

And once more I will attempt to explain this to you.

Covid is rising across Europe.

This because people have been meeting people across Europe.

Almost none (certainly I can't think of any) of these countries have coordinated community games on a level of frequency and structure as the GAA.

But you know what people do when associations don't provide facilities? They meet up anyway. In beaches, lakes, parks, pubs, restaurants, swimming pools, theme parks, shopping centres, schools, work, public buildings.

And the fucken thing spreads.

Did the GAA prevent the spread of Covid this year? No. Did it cause the spread of Covid this year, equally no.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:41:43 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:17:20 PM
By the way Sid. In case you deliberately missed it. When I described you as dealing in extremes, it is in how you label anyone querying government policy on Covid as a "Covid denier". That's extremism of the most extreme form. Basically you contort anyone raising an eyebrow to your viewpoint into being on your right, and therefore a right wing fascist murdering **** who hates people, and can only feel like this because they've been duped by some websites only you've ever heard of.

You're an extremist buddy. Property extreme.
That's quite the post

One could almost say it's extremist in its desperate attempt to play the man, not the ball

Which is quite the irony given that it's a post which tries to set you up as doing the opposite

But I guess you just couldn't help yourself and lunged in, a bit like Richarlison today

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:52:04 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:41:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:33:00 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:22:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:13:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:05:23 PM
Sid if cases are rising all across Europe, which they are, you really should start asking yourself whether limiting crowds at outdoor venues for a sport which is only played in Ireland, is part of that pattern.
Go back to the point

You portrayed the reduction in crowd sizes as a bad faith attack on the GAA

Crowds at GAA matches as well as celebrations have contributed, and likely quite significantly, to the spread of Covid

You were simply wrong in what you said - it was not a bad faith attack on the GAA at all but one element of a good faith attempt to try and stop the spread of the virus - but your attack was an obvious bad faith character assassination on the part of those making the regulations

It is in fact the GAA which has contributed to a bad faith attack on society by continually cocking two fingers at the effort to stop the spread of the virus

An organisation which is supposed to be about community well being decided it didn't care not just about the well being of the country, but of the very local communities its supposed to represent

And, sadly, neanderthal attitudes like yours were front and centre in that

Sid I'm entirely on point.

Covid cases are rising across Europe. Everywhere. The pattern you'll find is that humans are social creatures, and will go out of their way to meet each other. The pattern you won't find is that places where attendance at outdoor sporting venues was strictly limited to 200 people, have kept it under control.

Only one of us is dealing in "it is in fact".

The other has a narrative to fulfil.
Humans are indeed social creatures, but the more close social contact there is during this pandemic, the more the virus will spread

The pattern you'll find is that the more people avoid close social contact, the less the virus has the potential to spread

That's a fact, not narrative

But what else is portraying a reduction in crowd size as "an attack on the GAA" other than a bullshit narrative

What you were engaging in was Covid NIMBYism

You should take up this point about us being social creatures with the virus itself, maybe it'll listen and make an exception where it won't spread during club GAA games and celebrations, a sort of a ceasefire, maybe a bit like those three day IRA ceasefires at Christmas back in the day

And once more I will attempt to explain this to you.

Covid is rising across Europe.

This because people have been meeting people across Europe.

Almost none (certainly I can't think of any) of these countries have coordinated community games on a level of frequency and structure as the GAA.

But you know what people do when associations don't provide facilities? They meet up anyway. In beaches, lakes, parks, pubs, restaurants, swimming pools, theme parks, shopping centres, schools, work, public buildings.

And the fucken thing spreads.

Did the GAA prevent the spread of Covid this year? No. Did it cause the spread of Covid this year, equally no.
I'm sure there must be a name for ultra-cynical debating techniques like this

That because the virus is contagious, we should therefore do nothing

Professional blurring, professional fogging, perhaps

The fact is that attitudes like yours, multiplied on a large scale, are what enable the spread

A tragedy of the commons I believe its called

Where individuals refuse to take responsibility and do everything to exercise their own personal NIMBYism

It's why humans find it so hard to fix collective problems

Because individualists like you will always find an excuse not to exercise personal responsibility

The mindset is that "ah, shure it'll spread anyway", and my individual behaviour will make no difference

But multiplied on a large scale, it makes all the difference

Ironically "personal responsibility" tends to be the mantra of individualists

Yet cold hard reality shows that individualists do not believe what they preach




Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 18, 2020, 12:15:45 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:41:43 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:17:20 PM
By the way Sid. In case you deliberately missed it. When I described you as dealing in extremes, it is in how you label anyone querying government policy on Covid as a "Covid denier". That's extremism of the most extreme form. Basically you contort anyone raising an eyebrow to your viewpoint into being on your right, and therefore a right wing fascist murdering **** who hates people, and can only feel like this because they've been duped by some websites only you've ever heard of.

You're an extremist buddy. Property extreme.
That's quite the post

One could almost say it's extremist in its desperate attempt to play the man, not the ball

Which is quite the irony given that it's a post which tries to set you up as doing the opposite

But I guess you just couldn't help yourself and lunged in, a bit like Richarlison today

No I think you'll find that I moved this particular observation out on its own to allow me to clearly play the man, but separately.

There's no irony here. None. There's no lunge. Not even close. I haven't evaded a question and I never do.

But for reasons unknown to anyone but you, you emptied one of your paranoid anti-right wing tirades about 10 posts ago. There was no reason for it.

I've previously described you as an AI who has only a set number of phrases. Now I'm wondering if you have a nervous tic.

Something isn't quite right anyway. Your progression of every discussion from slight disagreement to labelling people as fascist brainwashed right wing lowlifes is both extraordinary and extraordinarily consistent.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 18, 2020, 12:22:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:52:04 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:41:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:33:00 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:22:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:13:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:05:23 PM
Sid if cases are rising all across Europe, which they are, you really should start asking yourself whether limiting crowds at outdoor venues for a sport which is only played in Ireland, is part of that pattern.
Go back to the point

You portrayed the reduction in crowd sizes as a bad faith attack on the GAA

Crowds at GAA matches as well as celebrations have contributed, and likely quite significantly, to the spread of Covid

You were simply wrong in what you said - it was not a bad faith attack on the GAA at all but one element of a good faith attempt to try and stop the spread of the virus - but your attack was an obvious bad faith character assassination on the part of those making the regulations

It is in fact the GAA which has contributed to a bad faith attack on society by continually cocking two fingers at the effort to stop the spread of the virus

An organisation which is supposed to be about community well being decided it didn't care not just about the well being of the country, but of the very local communities its supposed to represent

And, sadly, neanderthal attitudes like yours were front and centre in that

Sid I'm entirely on point.

Covid cases are rising across Europe. Everywhere. The pattern you'll find is that humans are social creatures, and will go out of their way to meet each other. The pattern you won't find is that places where attendance at outdoor sporting venues was strictly limited to 200 people, have kept it under control.

Only one of us is dealing in "it is in fact".

The other has a narrative to fulfil.
Humans are indeed social creatures, but the more close social contact there is during this pandemic, the more the virus will spread

The pattern you'll find is that the more people avoid close social contact, the less the virus has the potential to spread

That's a fact, not narrative

But what else is portraying a reduction in crowd size as "an attack on the GAA" other than a bullshit narrative

What you were engaging in was Covid NIMBYism

You should take up this point about us being social creatures with the virus itself, maybe it'll listen and make an exception where it won't spread during club GAA games and celebrations, a sort of a ceasefire, maybe a bit like those three day IRA ceasefires at Christmas back in the day

And once more I will attempt to explain this to you.

Covid is rising across Europe.

This because people have been meeting people across Europe.

Almost none (certainly I can't think of any) of these countries have coordinated community games on a level of frequency and structure as the GAA.

But you know what people do when associations don't provide facilities? They meet up anyway. In beaches, lakes, parks, pubs, restaurants, swimming pools, theme parks, shopping centres, schools, work, public buildings.

And the fucken thing spreads.

Did the GAA prevent the spread of Covid this year? No. Did it cause the spread of Covid this year, equally no.
I'm sure there must be a name for ultra-cynical debating techniques like this

That because the virus is contagious, we should therefore do nothing

Professional blurring, professional fogging, perhaps

The fact is that attitudes like yours, multiplied on a large scale, are what enable the spread

A tragedy of the commons I believe its called

Where individuals refuse to take responsibility and do everything to exercise their own personal NIMBYism

It's why humans find it so hard to fix collective problems

Because individualists like you will always find an excuse not to exercise personal responsibility

The mindset is that "ah, shure it'll spread anyway", and my individual behaviour will make no difference

But multiplied on a large scale, it makes all the difference

Ironically "personal responsibility" tends to be the mantra of individualists

Yet cold hard reality shows that individualists do not believe what they preach

As for this. I don't really know where to go here. You've contrived me as someone with no personal responsibility. It couldn't be further from the truth. But you see fit to portray me this way because I don't see any harm in small crowds gathering in large outdoor venues.

More interesting is your anti-GAA rant a few posts ago, where you derived this one from. I shouldn't be surprised at this. You're an exceptionally political person. Even when politics has no place, you (like Edwin Poots) will try to find an angle. So you've gone after an institution that didn't exactly follow your narrow view on handling Covid.

Take a breath man. The world isn't out to get you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 12:30:31 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 18, 2020, 12:22:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:52:04 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:41:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:33:00 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:22:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:13:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:05:23 PM
Sid if cases are rising all across Europe, which they are, you really should start asking yourself whether limiting crowds at outdoor venues for a sport which is only played in Ireland, is part of that pattern.
Go back to the point

You portrayed the reduction in crowd sizes as a bad faith attack on the GAA

Crowds at GAA matches as well as celebrations have contributed, and likely quite significantly, to the spread of Covid

You were simply wrong in what you said - it was not a bad faith attack on the GAA at all but one element of a good faith attempt to try and stop the spread of the virus - but your attack was an obvious bad faith character assassination on the part of those making the regulations

It is in fact the GAA which has contributed to a bad faith attack on society by continually cocking two fingers at the effort to stop the spread of the virus

An organisation which is supposed to be about community well being decided it didn't care not just about the well being of the country, but of the very local communities its supposed to represent

And, sadly, neanderthal attitudes like yours were front and centre in that

Sid I'm entirely on point.

Covid cases are rising across Europe. Everywhere. The pattern you'll find is that humans are social creatures, and will go out of their way to meet each other. The pattern you won't find is that places where attendance at outdoor sporting venues was strictly limited to 200 people, have kept it under control.

Only one of us is dealing in "it is in fact".

The other has a narrative to fulfil.
Humans are indeed social creatures, but the more close social contact there is during this pandemic, the more the virus will spread

The pattern you'll find is that the more people avoid close social contact, the less the virus has the potential to spread

That's a fact, not narrative

But what else is portraying a reduction in crowd size as "an attack on the GAA" other than a bullshit narrative

What you were engaging in was Covid NIMBYism

You should take up this point about us being social creatures with the virus itself, maybe it'll listen and make an exception where it won't spread during club GAA games and celebrations, a sort of a ceasefire, maybe a bit like those three day IRA ceasefires at Christmas back in the day

And once more I will attempt to explain this to you.

Covid is rising across Europe.

This because people have been meeting people across Europe.

Almost none (certainly I can't think of any) of these countries have coordinated community games on a level of frequency and structure as the GAA.

But you know what people do when associations don't provide facilities? They meet up anyway. In beaches, lakes, parks, pubs, restaurants, swimming pools, theme parks, shopping centres, schools, work, public buildings.

And the fucken thing spreads.

Did the GAA prevent the spread of Covid this year? No. Did it cause the spread of Covid this year, equally no.
I'm sure there must be a name for ultra-cynical debating techniques like this

That because the virus is contagious, we should therefore do nothing

Professional blurring, professional fogging, perhaps

The fact is that attitudes like yours, multiplied on a large scale, are what enable the spread

A tragedy of the commons I believe its called

Where individuals refuse to take responsibility and do everything to exercise their own personal NIMBYism

It's why humans find it so hard to fix collective problems

Because individualists like you will always find an excuse not to exercise personal responsibility

The mindset is that "ah, shure it'll spread anyway", and my individual behaviour will make no difference

But multiplied on a large scale, it makes all the difference

Ironically "personal responsibility" tends to be the mantra of individualists

Yet cold hard reality shows that individualists do not believe what they preach

As for this. I don't really know where to go here. You've contrived me as someone with no personal responsibility. It couldn't be further from the truth. But you see fit to portray me this way because I don't see any harm in small crowds gathering in large outdoor venues.

More interesting is your anti-GAA rant a few posts ago, where you derived this one from. I shouldn't be surprised at this. You're an exceptionally political person. Even when politics has no place, you (like Edwin Poots) will try to find an angle. So you've gone after an institution that didn't exactly follow your narrow view on handling Covid.

Take a breath man. The world isn't out to get you.
The world certainly isn't out to get me and never have I claimed anything remotely of the sort

Unlike you with your attempt to frame good faith restrictions on crowd sizes as an attack on the GAA and people like you

NIMBYism

In terms of personal responsibility, I don't have to mendaciously portray you as anything, I just let the facts speak for themselves

Edwin Poots has nothing to do with any of this, but sure fire away with your attempts to link me to him all you like, sure you might as well throw Jim Allister and maybe Jamie Bwyson in there too while you're at it




Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 12:37:43 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 18, 2020, 12:22:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:52:04 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:41:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:33:00 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:22:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 17, 2020, 11:13:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 11:05:23 PM
Sid if cases are rising all across Europe, which they are, you really should start asking yourself whether limiting crowds at outdoor venues for a sport which is only played in Ireland, is part of that pattern.
Go back to the point

You portrayed the reduction in crowd sizes as a bad faith attack on the GAA

Crowds at GAA matches as well as celebrations have contributed, and likely quite significantly, to the spread of Covid

You were simply wrong in what you said - it was not a bad faith attack on the GAA at all but one element of a good faith attempt to try and stop the spread of the virus - but your attack was an obvious bad faith character assassination on the part of those making the regulations

It is in fact the GAA which has contributed to a bad faith attack on society by continually cocking two fingers at the effort to stop the spread of the virus

An organisation which is supposed to be about community well being decided it didn't care not just about the well being of the country, but of the very local communities its supposed to represent

And, sadly, neanderthal attitudes like yours were front and centre in that

Sid I'm entirely on point.

Covid cases are rising across Europe. Everywhere. The pattern you'll find is that humans are social creatures, and will go out of their way to meet each other. The pattern you won't find is that places where attendance at outdoor sporting venues was strictly limited to 200 people, have kept it under control.

Only one of us is dealing in "it is in fact".

The other has a narrative to fulfil.
Humans are indeed social creatures, but the more close social contact there is during this pandemic, the more the virus will spread

The pattern you'll find is that the more people avoid close social contact, the less the virus has the potential to spread

That's a fact, not narrative

But what else is portraying a reduction in crowd size as "an attack on the GAA" other than a bullshit narrative

What you were engaging in was Covid NIMBYism

You should take up this point about us being social creatures with the virus itself, maybe it'll listen and make an exception where it won't spread during club GAA games and celebrations, a sort of a ceasefire, maybe a bit like those three day IRA ceasefires at Christmas back in the day

And once more I will attempt to explain this to you.

Covid is rising across Europe.

This because people have been meeting people across Europe.

Almost none (certainly I can't think of any) of these countries have coordinated community games on a level of frequency and structure as the GAA.

But you know what people do when associations don't provide facilities? They meet up anyway. In beaches, lakes, parks, pubs, restaurants, swimming pools, theme parks, shopping centres, schools, work, public buildings.

And the fucken thing spreads.

Did the GAA prevent the spread of Covid this year? No. Did it cause the spread of Covid this year, equally no.
I'm sure there must be a name for ultra-cynical debating techniques like this

That because the virus is contagious, we should therefore do nothing

Professional blurring, professional fogging, perhaps

The fact is that attitudes like yours, multiplied on a large scale, are what enable the spread

A tragedy of the commons I believe its called

Where individuals refuse to take responsibility and do everything to exercise their own personal NIMBYism

It's why humans find it so hard to fix collective problems

Because individualists like you will always find an excuse not to exercise personal responsibility

The mindset is that "ah, shure it'll spread anyway", and my individual behaviour will make no difference

But multiplied on a large scale, it makes all the difference

Ironically "personal responsibility" tends to be the mantra of individualists

Yet cold hard reality shows that individualists do not believe what they preach

As for this. I don't really know where to go here. You've contrived me as someone with no personal responsibility. It couldn't be further from the truth. But you see fit to portray me this way because I don't see any harm in small crowds gathering in large outdoor venues.

More interesting is your anti-GAA rant a few posts ago, where you derived this one from. I shouldn't be surprised at this. You're an exceptionally political person. Even when politics has no place, you (like Edwin Poots) will try to find an angle. So you've gone after an institution that didn't exactly follow your narrow view on handling Covid.

Take a breath man. The world isn't out to get you.

not getting involved in whatever you and sid are at but
the GAA didnt follow basic guidelines not whatever sids narrow view on handling covid is..

From Croke pk to individual club members social distancing was not adhered to and numbers at matches was not adhered to. this was very clear in numerous televised matches, not accounting for social events linked to gaa matches. It is not anti GAA and the GAA have even acknowledged this. 

When an organisation and its members which is so central to so many people and communities across the island can not get it right what hope do we have of opening up again and not ending up back in the same position again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 12:49:52 AM
It's quite bizarre that somebody would attempt to portray somebody who has been posting on a GAA forum for nearly two decades (I well remember the glory days of Bummer and Tony Fearon and Hardyarse The Fiddler) as "anti-GAA"

But I suppose when somebody wants to manufacture a fake reality around their confirmation bias, it's hardly surprising
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2020, 12:50:40 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 17, 2020, 10:40:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years


See I don't think this is fair at all MR2. I've lost two very club mates at the same age in the past decade, from cancer. Covid might be dangerous, it might be topical, but it must not enjoy a monopoly on compassion.

One of Angelo's recurring points in the past 50 pages has been that Covid is trumping all other forms of essential care, and querying whether we will regret this move. Please don't now evolve this into Covid trumping all other forms of compassion.

We've all lost friends family during all periods none of which I'd accept or just say, f**k it it's their time. The lack of empathy is embarrassing and if you are on the  same page then you also have issues.

Nothing trumps death, nothing. To trivialise it is wrong. If there is a way of combating it I'll take that route. I won't accept that it's my time
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 18, 2020, 09:15:35 AM
MR2 I'm not trivialising death nor is my empathy waning.

My point, perhaps poorly explained, is that every early death is a tragedy. It's unfair on whoever you are debating with though to empty a highly personalised emotional death upon them, as if early death is a uniquely Covid tragedy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 18, 2020, 09:34:24 AM
Sid just for the record I never described you as anti-GAA. I'd described your stance of blaming the GAA for Covid rises as being anti-GAA (which is reminiscent of Poots this week), as when you step back and look at the big figures across Europe, Covid is rising similarly in both GAA strongholds and places where the game has never been seen.

Surely a man of your GAABoard experience could at least be savvy enough to read what's written rather than latch onto something that wasn't said?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 18, 2020, 09:46:59 AM
PHP - here's my understanding / interpretation of things. Covid began rising again once people started spending more time indoors once summer had passed. For example, while September in Portugal might be a balmy 18 degrees for an Irishman, it's a cold 18 degrees for a Portuguese, and they will migrate indoors.



Did summertime GAA matches where attendances were marginally exceeded and people from the samE community sat in close proximity for 90 minutes help spread the virus? Honestly, no. Because if that was the case, then Covid would have been everywhere all summer: outdoor  training, beer gardens, beaches, parks, promenades would  have ensured it.


Did post match celebrations help facilitate the spread of Covid? Absolutely no doubt at all. But the only way for the GAA to prevent this happening would have been to ban championship football, camogie and hurling outright. If you want to quibble with a GAA policy, I think it's here you should look.

——

Young people started gathering indoors again extensively in September, in pubs and house parties. That's a key reason why the virus has spread again. This would have happened regardless of GAA finals. This is surely obvious by the likewise rises across Europe.

——

Reopening schools has been a factor of N compared to the GAA in the spread of Covid. As was Eat Out to Help Out. But that's an uncomfortable thought process for many to take.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 09:53:24 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 18, 2020, 09:34:24 AM
Sid just for the record I never described you as anti-GAA. I'd described your stance of blaming the GAA for Covid rises as being anti-GAA (which is reminiscent of Poots this week), as when you step back and look at the big figures across Europe, Covid is rising similarly in both GAA strongholds and places where the game has never been seen.

Surely a man of your GAABoard experience could at least be savvy enough to read what's written rather than latch onto something that wasn't said?
But the attitude in the GAA over the last couple of months has been disgraceful, led from the very top, and summed up at local level by your reactions

An organisation which behaves in a way which encourages virus spread deserves to be heavily criticised for it

What you are doing is professional fogging and obfuscation on behalf of that organisation - running interference

You are saying that an organisation which has the capacity to act responsibly, but didn't, should not be criticised

It's unfortunate that clubs which it appears have behaved responsibly such as Charleville get tainted by association with the Blackrocks of this world

But this "we're not responsible" line has come from the top, so therefore it's not surprising that irresponsible behaviour has spread like dry rot throughout the organisation

Frankly, if we're in a similar position in 2021, club GAA has now proved beyond doubt that it should either not go ahead at all, or go ahead on a strictly non-competitive basis, with no championships or trophies awarded

Thanks again for the Edwin Poots comparison, it's unintentionally quite funny and just goes again to prove the point about your fake victimhood

Aybody who criticises the behaviour at GAA games is now Edwin Poots

That's not much of an argument, is it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 10:21:21 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 18, 2020, 09:46:59 AM
PHP - here's my understanding / interpretation of things. Covid began rising again once people started spending more time indoors once summer had passed. For example, while September in Portugal might be a balmy 18 degrees for an Irishman, it's a cold 18 degrees for a Portuguese, and they will migrate indoors.



Did summertime GAA matches where attendances were marginally exceeded and people from the samE community sat in close proximity for 90 minutes help spread the virus? Honestly, no. Because if that was the case, then Covid would have been everywhere all summer: outdoor  training, beer gardens, beaches, parks, promenades would  have ensured it.


Did post match celebrations help facilitate the spread of Covid? Absolutely no doubt at all. But the only way for the GAA to prevent this happening would have been to ban championship football, camogie and hurling outright. If you want to quibble with a GAA policy, I think it's here you should look.

——

Young people started gathering indoors again extensively in September, in pubs and house parties. That's a key reason why the virus has spread again. This would have happened regardless of GAA finals. This is surely obvious by the likewise rises across Europe.

——

Reopening schools has been a factor of N compared to the GAA in the spread of Covid. As was Eat Out to Help Out. But that's an uncomfortable thought process for many to take.

wobbler i never associated all the breaches of the basic covid guidance with the increases if you read my post again.

im sure it contributed but there are many other reasons so blaming a single area is not a constructive thing to do.

my point was if the gaa, an organisation at the heart of most communities across the island didnt adhere to basic covid guidance, where is the hope for wider society who take there cues from the people closed to them normally..

in fact a point you made previously makes it worst, as you said other countries dont have the gaa and are seeing increases so we in ireland with the gaa were in a unique position for the GAA to drive home and lead by example with following basic covid guidance. IMO every level of the GAA failed in this aspect after such a bright start in March supporting vulnerable people with food delieveies etc.  It was massively disappointing when we needed grassroots leadership as we came out if the 1st lockdown, the Gaa failed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 18, 2020, 11:10:58 AM
If Johnny puts his finger in the fire do I have to follow suit?
If thick gobsh1tes sat on top of each other at matches do I also have to?
If GAA Co Boards made no effort to ensure/enforce Social distancing at matches did I also have to ignore it?

Remember it's not Governments or Doctors or Organisations who can prevent/reduce the spread of Covid.

It's YOU!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2020, 11:19:22 AM
Sid do you believe the rising cases is down to the GAA? If you do then you can be put in the same bracket as Poots, if on the other hand you believe it's not helped the rise of cases alongside wet bars being opened, colleges reopened schools reopened other close contact services reopened then you are not the same as Poots.

All these factors, and forgetting what's happening across the world, the North's rise in case is down to the general public being complacent and not following simple guidelines.

The reason it spreads is because people are not social distancing they are not using sanitizer or washing hands. Even ones that have been in known contact with someone who's been positive haven't isolated!

I was at club games in Antrim and what happened at the pitch and after the games was brilliant, what happened after they left the pitch becomes an individual decision to break the rules, the pubs that allowed it to happen broke the rules. If there was rule breaks at the ground then yes blame that county board, there are 32 county boards, how many broke guidelines?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 11:28:26 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 18, 2020, 11:10:58 AM
If Johnny puts his finger in the fire do I have to follow suit?
If thick gobsh1tes sat on top of each other at matches do I also have to?
If GAA Co Boards made no effort to ensure/enforce Social distancing at matches did I also have to ignore it?

Remember it's not Governments or Doctors or Organisations who can prevent/reduce the spread of Covid.

It's YOU!!

i agree with all of that but people take there cues from what they see others do, especially those in authority etc. The GAA as an organisation were poor and didnt set a good example. As it is at the heart of most communities i think its attitude backed up peoples opinion who broke the rules at matches that it wasnt a big deal..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on October 18, 2020, 11:34:07 AM
Ireland is 211 on the 14th day incidence rate on the number of cases.

Spain 312.4
France 365.8
Netherlands 485.5
Belgium 637.6

I wonder who those countries point the finger of blame at for their high infection rates, hardly the GAA like here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 11:37:06 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 18, 2020, 11:34:07 AM
Ireland is 211 on the 14th day incidence rate on the number of cases.

Spain 312.4
France 365.8
Netherlands 485.5
Belgium 637.6

I wonder who those countries point the finger of blame at for their high infection rates, hardly the GAA like here.

who is solely blaming the gaa on here?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on October 18, 2020, 11:42:45 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 11:37:06 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 18, 2020, 11:34:07 AM
Ireland is 211 on the 14th day incidence rate on the number of cases.

Spain 312.4
France 365.8
Netherlands 485.5
Belgium 637.6

I wonder who those countries point the finger of blame at for their high infection rates, hardly the GAA like here.

who is solely blaming the gaa on here?
Here as the general public opinion from what I see on social media and from some journalists.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 11:43:09 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2020, 11:19:22 AM
Sid do you believe the rising cases is down to the GAA? If you do then you can be put in the same bracket as Poots, if on the other hand you believe it's not helped the rise of cases alongside wet bars being opened, colleges reopened schools reopened other close contact services reopened then you are not the same as Poots.

All these factors, and forgetting what's happening across the world, the North's rise in case is down to the general public being complacent and not following simple guidelines.

The reason it spreads is because people are not social distancing they are not using sanitizer or washing hands. Even ones that have been in known contact with someone who's been positive haven't isolated!

I was at club games in Antrim and what happened at the pitch and after the games was brilliant, what happened after they left the pitch becomes an individual decision to break the rules, the pubs that allowed it to happen broke the rules. If there was rule breaks at the ground then yes blame that county board, there are 32 county boards, how many broke guidelines?
The GAA is undoubtedly a contributor to increased spread

It helped to spread complacency in society as a whole, and that came right from the top and spread downwards through the organisation

In a similar way to how the Clifden golf jolly generated such anger - and rightly so - because it showed that people with high profile positions in politics and the judiciary believed there was one rule for them and one rule for others, the GAA, the most important civil society organisation in the country, cocked a snook at the regulations in a very public and high handed way

The GAA has a position of immense influence and authority in Irish society, a unique position actually, it permeates every parish in the country, one might say it is the glue that holds Irish society together

Therefore it had a special responsibility to publicly adhere to restrictions and be seen to fully behind them

It didn't do that, it took the piss

For the GAA, there was one rule for it and another for everybody else - and now, anybody who criticises the GAA is apparently Edwin Poots

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel and all that

Again, if we are still in this situation next year, there should be no club championships, no formal club competitions, no trophies, no more opportunities for more superspreading events

Just a series of non-competitive matches to keep fit and have a bit of fun, like Go Games



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 11:45:05 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 18, 2020, 11:42:45 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 11:37:06 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 18, 2020, 11:34:07 AM
Ireland is 211 on the 14th day incidence rate on the number of cases.

Spain 312.4
France 365.8
Netherlands 485.5
Belgium 637.6

I wonder who those countries point the finger of blame at for their high infection rates, hardly the GAA like here.

who is solely blaming the gaa on here?
Here as the general public opinion from what I see on social media and from some journalists.

ik, i read "here " as this board rather than what you actually meant which is general public.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2020, 11:51:17 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 11:43:09 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2020, 11:19:22 AM
Sid do you believe the rising cases is down to the GAA? If you do then you can be put in the same bracket as Poots, if on the other hand you believe it's not helped the rise of cases alongside wet bars being opened, colleges reopened schools reopened other close contact services reopened then you are not the same as Poots.

All these factors, and forgetting what's happening across the world, the North's rise in case is down to the general public being complacent and not following simple guidelines.

The reason it spreads is because people are not social distancing they are not using sanitizer or washing hands. Even ones that have been in known contact with someone who's been positive haven't isolated!

I was at club games in Antrim and what happened at the pitch and after the games was brilliant, what happened after they left the pitch becomes an individual decision to break the rules, the pubs that allowed it to happen broke the rules. If there was rule breaks at the ground then yes blame that county board, there are 32 county boards, how many broke guidelines?
The GAA is undoubtedly a contributor to increased spread

It helped to spread complacency in society as a whole, and that came right from the top and spread downwards through the organisation

In a similar way to how the Clifden golf jolly generated such anger - and rightly so - because it showed that people with high profile positions in politics and the judiciary believed there was one rule for them and one rule for others, the GAA, the most important civil society organisation in the country, cocked a snook at the regulations in a very public and high handed way

The GAA has a position of immense influence and authority in Irish society, a unique position actually, it permeates every parish in the country, one might say it is the glue that holds Irish society together

Therefore it had a special responsibility to publicly adhere to restrictions and be seen to fully behind them

It didn't do that, it took the piss

For the GAA, there was one rule for it and another for everybody else - and now, anybody who criticises the GAA is apparently Edwin Poots

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel and all that

Again, if we are still in this situation next year, there should be no club championships, no formal club competitions, no trophies, no more opportunities for more superspreading events

Just a series of non-competitive matches to keep fit and have a bit of fun, like Go Games

Just another rant, ok Poots
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on October 18, 2020, 11:54:42 AM
This is the shit were up against. Fella has symptoms on Tuesday (no taste) goes to work anyway and says nothing. Thursday doesn't feel any better, he and wife gets tested. Wife goes on a day trip with 2 other family members in car. Bloke still goes to work and lifts 2 others for work. Yes they both get positive results, to to make worse, go shopping to a supermarket with their two small children. And, and were looking a baby sitter to go to a fecking party. This is the idiotic, selfish and dangerous attitude that does exist out there. Member of family close to this and I hope they have reported them. We hope to reduce the cases with this attitude 🤯
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 18, 2020, 11:56:03 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 11:43:09 AM
If we are still in this situation next year, there should be no club championships, no formal club competitions, no trophies, no more opportunities for more superspreading events

Just a series of non-competitive matches to keep fit and have a bit of fun, like Go Games

Club games without the competitive edge are a waste of time. Players can keep fit training and in the gym. In a situation like like many will be taking up other sports and won't be coming back to GAA when it returns to competitive action.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2020, 11:57:10 AM
Quote from: Square Ball on October 18, 2020, 11:54:42 AM
This is the shit were up against. Fella has symptoms on Tuesday (no taste) goes to work anyway and says nothing. Thursday doesn't feel any better, he and wife gets tested. Wife goes on a day trip with 2 other family members in car. Bloke still goes to work and lifts 2 others for work. Yes they both get positive results, to to make worse, go shopping to a supermarket with their two small children. And, and were looking a baby sitter to go to a fecking party. This is the idiotic, selfish and dangerous attitude that does exist out there. Member of family close to this and I hope they have reported them. We hope to reduce the cases with this attitude 🤯

Nope don't believe you at al! Rubbish story, unless they went to the GAA game first
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 12:10:32 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 18, 2020, 11:56:03 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 11:43:09 AM
If we are still in this situation next year, there should be no club championships, no formal club competitions, no trophies, no more opportunities for more superspreading events

Just a series of non-competitive matches to keep fit and have a bit of fun, like Go Games

Club games without the competitive edge are a waste of time. Players can keep fit training and in the gym. In a situation like like many will be taking up other sports and won't be coming back to GAA when it returns to competitive action.
Why would they be a waste of time?

It's often said that club players just want to play, and the over emphasis on competition is frequently lamented on here

Playing non-competitive football is far more enjoyable than going to the gym

In fact it's often been said that the ultra-competitive nature of GAA games leads to a smaller playing population than there could or should be

This was the motivating factor behind the "Recreational GAA" idea some years ago which I think Diarmuid Marsden was involved in formulating

The strength of grass roots soccer is that there is a level for everybody

That isn't really the case in GAA


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 12:11:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2020, 11:51:17 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 11:43:09 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2020, 11:19:22 AM
Sid do you believe the rising cases is down to the GAA? If you do then you can be put in the same bracket as Poots, if on the other hand you believe it's not helped the rise of cases alongside wet bars being opened, colleges reopened schools reopened other close contact services reopened then you are not the same as Poots.

All these factors, and forgetting what's happening across the world, the North's rise in case is down to the general public being complacent and not following simple guidelines.

The reason it spreads is because people are not social distancing they are not using sanitizer or washing hands. Even ones that have been in known contact with someone who's been positive haven't isolated!

I was at club games in Antrim and what happened at the pitch and after the games was brilliant, what happened after they left the pitch becomes an individual decision to break the rules, the pubs that allowed it to happen broke the rules. If there was rule breaks at the ground then yes blame that county board, there are 32 county boards, how many broke guidelines?
The GAA is undoubtedly a contributor to increased spread

It helped to spread complacency in society as a whole, and that came right from the top and spread downwards through the organisation

In a similar way to how the Clifden golf jolly generated such anger - and rightly so - because it showed that people with high profile positions in politics and the judiciary believed there was one rule for them and one rule for others, the GAA, the most important civil society organisation in the country, cocked a snook at the regulations in a very public and high handed way

The GAA has a position of immense influence and authority in Irish society, a unique position actually, it permeates every parish in the country, one might say it is the glue that holds Irish society together

Therefore it had a special responsibility to publicly adhere to restrictions and be seen to fully behind them

It didn't do that, it took the piss

For the GAA, there was one rule for it and another for everybody else - and now, anybody who criticises the GAA is apparently Edwin Poots

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel and all that

Again, if we are still in this situation next year, there should be no club championships, no formal club competitions, no trophies, no more opportunities for more superspreading events

Just a series of non-competitive matches to keep fit and have a bit of fun, like Go Games

Just another rant, ok Poots
Good riposte
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on October 18, 2020, 12:15:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2020, 11:57:10 AM
Quote from: Square Ball on October 18, 2020, 11:54:42 AM
This is the shit were up against. Fella has symptoms on Tuesday (no taste) goes to work anyway and says nothing. Thursday doesn't feel any better, he and wife gets tested. Wife goes on a day trip with 2 other family members in car. Bloke still goes to work and lifts 2 others for work. Yes they both get positive results, to to make worse, go shopping to a supermarket with their two small children. And, and were looking a baby sitter to go to a fecking party. This is the idiotic, selfish and dangerous attitude that does exist out there. Member of family close to this and I hope they have reported them. We hope to reduce the cases with this attitude 🤯

Nope don't believe you at al! Rubbish story, unless they went to the GAA game first
He watched reruns on TG4, does that count?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 18, 2020, 12:16:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 12:10:32 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 18, 2020, 11:56:03 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 11:43:09 AM
If we are still in this situation next year, there should be no club championships, no formal club competitions, no trophies, no more opportunities for more superspreading events

Just a series of non-competitive matches to keep fit and have a bit of fun, like Go Games

Club games without the competitive edge are a waste of time. Players can keep fit training and in the gym. In a situation like like many will be taking up other sports and won't be coming back to GAA when it returns to competitive action.
Why would they be a waste of time?

It's often said that club players just want to play, and the over emphasis on competition is frequently lamented on here

Playing non-competitive football is far more enjoyable than going to the gym

In fact it's often been said that the ultra-competitive nature of GAA games leads to a smaller playing population than there could or should be

This was the motivating factor behind the "Recreational GAA" idea some years ago which I think Diarmuid Marsden was involved in formulating

The strength of grass roots soccer is that there is a level for everybody

That isn't really the case in GAA

The competitive edge is what makes the game that it is and what players enjoy most about this sport.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 12:32:36 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 18, 2020, 12:16:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 12:10:32 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 18, 2020, 11:56:03 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 11:43:09 AM
If we are still in this situation next year, there should be no club championships, no formal club competitions, no trophies, no more opportunities for more superspreading events

Just a series of non-competitive matches to keep fit and have a bit of fun, like Go Games

Club games without the competitive edge are a waste of time. Players can keep fit training and in the gym. In a situation like like many will be taking up other sports and won't be coming back to GAA when it returns to competitive action.
Why would they be a waste of time?

It's often said that club players just want to play, and the over emphasis on competition is frequently lamented on here

Playing non-competitive football is far more enjoyable than going to the gym

In fact it's often been said that the ultra-competitive nature of GAA games leads to a smaller playing population than there could or should be

This was the motivating factor behind the "Recreational GAA" idea some years ago which I think Diarmuid Marsden was involved in formulating

The strength of grass roots soccer is that there is a level for everybody

That isn't really the case in GAA

The competitive edge is what makes the game that it is and what players enjoy most about this sport.
Every match at any level creates its own competitive dynamic

Training even has its own competitive dynamic

The GAA prides itself as a community organisation

Now it seems to want its cake and eat it

The right to keep creating superspreading events is not the most valuable feature of the GAA

The most valuable feature is the keeping fit, playing a bit of ball, and having fun, and community

That's what it's supposed to be anyway

Our definition of what community is has now had to change due to the unforeseen circumstances brought about by a pandemic

Yet now it appears the right to hold superspreading events during a pandemic is the most important thing as far as some people are concerned

The "we are not for turning, never, never, never" mantra

The organised competition competitive edge is what leads to those superspreading events

That's fundamentally anti-community and individualist

And being anti-community and individualist was never my understanding of what the GAA was supposed to be about
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2020, 01:04:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 12:11:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2020, 11:51:17 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 11:43:09 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2020, 11:19:22 AM
Sid do you believe the rising cases is down to the GAA? If you do then you can be put in the same bracket as Poots, if on the other hand you believe it's not helped the rise of cases alongside wet bars being opened, colleges reopened schools reopened other close contact services reopened then you are not the same as Poots.

All these factors, and forgetting what's happening across the world, the North's rise in case is down to the general public being complacent and not following simple guidelines.

The reason it spreads is because people are not social distancing they are not using sanitizer or washing hands. Even ones that have been in known contact with someone who's been positive haven't isolated!

I was at club games in Antrim and what happened at the pitch and after the games was brilliant, what happened after they left the pitch becomes an individual decision to break the rules, the pubs that allowed it to happen broke the rules. If there was rule breaks at the ground then yes blame that county board, there are 32 county boards, how many broke guidelines?
The GAA is undoubtedly a contributor to increased spread

It helped to spread complacency in society as a whole, and that came right from the top and spread downwards through the organisation

In a similar way to how the Clifden golf jolly generated such anger - and rightly so - because it showed that people with high profile positions in politics and the judiciary believed there was one rule for them and one rule for others, the GAA, the most important civil society organisation in the country, cocked a snook at the regulations in a very public and high handed way

The GAA has a position of immense influence and authority in Irish society, a unique position actually, it permeates every parish in the country, one might say it is the glue that holds Irish society together

Therefore it had a special responsibility to publicly adhere to restrictions and be seen to fully behind them

It didn't do that, it took the piss

For the GAA, there was one rule for it and another for everybody else - and now, anybody who criticises the GAA is apparently Edwin Poots

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel and all that

Again, if we are still in this situation next year, there should be no club championships, no formal club competitions, no trophies, no more opportunities for more superspreading events

Just a series of non-competitive matches to keep fit and have a bit of fun, like Go Games

Just another rant, ok Poots
Good riposte

If you're going continually GAA bash without acknowledging all the other factors I brought up then you are no better than Poots
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 01:13:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2020, 01:04:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 12:11:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2020, 11:51:17 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 11:43:09 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2020, 11:19:22 AM
Sid do you believe the rising cases is down to the GAA? If you do then you can be put in the same bracket as Poots, if on the other hand you believe it's not helped the rise of cases alongside wet bars being opened, colleges reopened schools reopened other close contact services reopened then you are not the same as Poots.

All these factors, and forgetting what's happening across the world, the North's rise in case is down to the general public being complacent and not following simple guidelines.

The reason it spreads is because people are not social distancing they are not using sanitizer or washing hands. Even ones that have been in known contact with someone who's been positive haven't isolated!

I was at club games in Antrim and what happened at the pitch and after the games was brilliant, what happened after they left the pitch becomes an individual decision to break the rules, the pubs that allowed it to happen broke the rules. If there was rule breaks at the ground then yes blame that county board, there are 32 county boards, how many broke guidelines?
The GAA is undoubtedly a contributor to increased spread

It helped to spread complacency in society as a whole, and that came right from the top and spread downwards through the organisation

In a similar way to how the Clifden golf jolly generated such anger - and rightly so - because it showed that people with high profile positions in politics and the judiciary believed there was one rule for them and one rule for others, the GAA, the most important civil society organisation in the country, cocked a snook at the regulations in a very public and high handed way

The GAA has a position of immense influence and authority in Irish society, a unique position actually, it permeates every parish in the country, one might say it is the glue that holds Irish society together

Therefore it had a special responsibility to publicly adhere to restrictions and be seen to fully behind them

It didn't do that, it took the piss

For the GAA, there was one rule for it and another for everybody else - and now, anybody who criticises the GAA is apparently Edwin Poots

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel and all that

Again, if we are still in this situation next year, there should be no club championships, no formal club competitions, no trophies, no more opportunities for more superspreading events

Just a series of non-competitive matches to keep fit and have a bit of fun, like Go Games

Just another rant, ok Poots
Good riposte

If you're going continually GAA bash without acknowledging all the other factors I brought up then you are no better than Poots
Again you're just proving my point, arguing against a straw man and refusing to engage in good faith

It seems there is unfortunately a sizable enough cohort in the GAA who will brook no internal dissent over this and just close  ranks and frame any dissent as an attack on their identity

Everybody who dissents is now Edwin Poots

Ludicrous stuff - and sadly the wider world political context has fed into this identity based paranoia complex

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 18, 2020, 01:41:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 12:32:36 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 18, 2020, 12:16:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 12:10:32 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 18, 2020, 11:56:03 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 11:43:09 AM
If we are still in this situation next year, there should be no club championships, no formal club competitions, no trophies, no more opportunities for more superspreading events

Just a series of non-competitive matches to keep fit and have a bit of fun, like Go Games

Club games without the competitive edge are a waste of time. Players can keep fit training and in the gym. In a situation like like many will be taking up other sports and won't be coming back to GAA when it returns to competitive action.
Why would they be a waste of time?

It's often said that club players just want to play, and the over emphasis on competition is frequently lamented on here

Playing non-competitive football is far more enjoyable than going to the gym

In fact it's often been said that the ultra-competitive nature of GAA games leads to a smaller playing population than there could or should be

This was the motivating factor behind the "Recreational GAA" idea some years ago which I think Diarmuid Marsden was involved in formulating

The strength of grass roots soccer is that there is a level for everybody

That isn't really the case in GAA

The competitive edge is what makes the game that it is and what players enjoy most about this sport.
Every match at any level creates its own competitive dynamic

Training even has its own competitive dynamic

The GAA prides itself as a community organisation

Now it seems to want its cake and eat it

The right to keep creating superspreading events is not the most valuable feature of the GAA

The most valuable feature is the keeping fit, playing a bit of ball, and having fun, and community

That's what it's supposed to be anyway

Our definition of what community is has now had to change due to the unforeseen circumstances brought about by a pandemic

Yet now it appears the right to hold superspreading events during a pandemic is the most important thing as far as some people are concerned

The "we are not for turning, never, never, never" mantra

The organised competition competitive edge is what leads to those superspreading events

That's fundamentally anti-community and individualist

And being anti-community and individualist was never my understanding of what the GAA was supposed to be about

Not every match, challenge games there is many examples of players minding themselves for the more important games ahead. Training only steps up when the real competitive action is around the corner.

Little or no known spread of this virus from playing matches outdoors. It's well known that the virus is a super spreader in a crowded place indoors. In the future community organisation equals making sure the latter doesn't happen and that's not just GAA after county title celebrations,. People attending Birthday parties, communions etc are just as responsible for their actions in these times
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:50:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.

i have, i am advocating lockdown again and in the absence of something better and as of now i am.not aware of what that would be another lockdown and another as needs require.

the alternative is herd immunity and i have already provided my reason for not purposing that course inclusing socio-economic reasons.

i have also mentioned that comparing restrictions/lockdown fataility rates with potential herd immunity fatality rates is not comparing like with like. i dont know how much early detection and how much better we are at treating covid is or if the strain has weakened but i think you can agree if hospitals get overwhelm, which they will with herd immunity, they are close with the last 7 months restrictions that more people will die.

you camnot compare the flu those rates are us nearly alwyas having capacity, having a vaccine and living pre covid lives.

if we lived pre covid lives now, how soon would the hosiptals get overwhelmed  and thr fatality rate start to increase!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 02:05:10 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:50:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.

i have, i am advocating lockdown again and in the absence of something better and as of now i am.not aware of what that would be another lockdown and another as needs require.

the alternative is herd immunity and i have already provided my reason for not purposing that course inclusing socio-economic reasons.

i have also mentioned that comparing restrictions/lockdown fataility rates with potential herd immunity fatality rates is not comparing like with like. i dont know how much early detection and how much better we are at treating covid is or if the strain has weakened but i think you can agree if hospitals get overwhelm, which they will with herd immunity, they are close with the last 7 months restrictions that more people will die.

you camnot compare the flu those rates are us nearly alwyas having capacity, having a vaccine and living pre covid lives.

if we lived pre covid lives now, how soon would the hosiptals get overwhelmed  and thr fatality rate start to increase!!

Who is mentioning pre-Covid lives?

I think we should have stuck with the way we were living after coming out of the first lockdown.

The bottom line is that people don't fear the virus now, if the problem is a compliance problem then more restrictions aren't going to help when compliance is the problem.

What % of cases requite hospitalisation since we have moved into the second wave. Why have governments not catered for this sufficiently particularly when you look at some of the money being thrown about, surely the health service is the thing that requires the most investment in the immediate term.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 18, 2020, 03:05:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 02:05:10 PM

I think we should have stuck with the way we were living after coming out of the first lockdown.

The bottom line is that people don't fear the virus now, if the problem is a compliance problem then more restrictions aren't going to help when compliance is the problem.

If your work is closed then you can't go in there an spread the virus, likewise pubs and shops.

QuoteWhat % of cases requite hospitalisation since we have moved into the second wave. Why have governments not catered for this sufficiently particularly when you look at some of the money being thrown about, surely the health service is the thing that requires the most investment in the immediate term.

In the budget, the Dublin government promised 2,400 new hospital and community care beds, which needs another 4,500 nurses. The Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation (INMO) said that there aren't 4500 nurses available in the next 3 months. If the health service is under provisioned then this cannot be fixed in the short term. Every other country has Covid as well, so you aren't going to be able reruit large number internationally either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 03:27:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 18, 2020, 03:05:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 02:05:10 PM

I think we should have stuck with the way we were living after coming out of the first lockdown.

The bottom line is that people don't fear the virus now, if the problem is a compliance problem then more restrictions aren't going to help when compliance is the problem.

If your work is closed then you can't go in there an spread the virus, likewise pubs and shops.

QuoteWhat % of cases requite hospitalisation since we have moved into the second wave. Why have governments not catered for this sufficiently particularly when you look at some of the money being thrown about, surely the health service is the thing that requires the most investment in the immediate term.

In the budget, the Dublin government promised 2,400 new hospital and community care beds, which needs another 4,500 nurses. The Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation (INMO) said that there aren't 4500 nurses available in the next 3 months. If the health service is under provisioned then this cannot be fixed in the short term. Every other country has Covid as well, so you aren't going to be able reruit large number internationally either.

If your work is closed then there are far reaching consequences, not everyone can work from home and business owners are put under severe financial pressure which could result in job losses.

It's grand talking about the consequences of Covid but there are huge consequences of lockdowns and restrictive measure which people do not seem to accept.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 02:05:10 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:50:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.

i have, i am advocating lockdown again and in the absence of something better and as of now i am.not aware of what that would be another lockdown and another as needs require.

the alternative is herd immunity and i have already provided my reason for not purposing that course inclusing socio-economic reasons.

i have also mentioned that comparing restrictions/lockdown fataility rates with potential herd immunity fatality rates is not comparing like with like. i dont know how much early detection and how much better we are at treating covid is or if the strain has weakened but i think you can agree if hospitals get overwhelm, which they will with herd immunity, they are close with the last 7 months restrictions that more people will die.

you camnot compare the flu those rates are us nearly alwyas having capacity, having a vaccine and living pre covid lives.

if we lived pre covid lives now, how soon would the hosiptals get overwhelmed  and thr fatality rate start to increase!!

Who is mentioning pre-Covid lives?

I think we should have stuck with the way we were living after coming out of the first lockdown.

The bottom line is that people don't fear the virus now, if the problem is a compliance problem then more restrictions aren't going to help when compliance is the problem.

What % of cases requite hospitalisation since we have moved into the second wave. Why have governments not catered for this sufficiently particularly when you look at some of the money being thrown about, surely the health service is the thing that requires the most investment in the immediate term.

you have being comparing against the flu so i assumed you were at least trying im some way to like with like...

what we are doing  now is seeing the grow in numbers of people with covid to the point where lockdowns are being re introduced to prevent the hospitals being overwhelmed. It would be interesting to know what peoples opinions of covid in ireland are but i dont think you can make a sweeping statement like people dont fear the virus now....

the socio-economic impact of a situation where the hospitals are overwhelmed (we need to deal with what we got, not what health system we should have) would be way worst that rolling lockdowns. 

i am all for living with covid if the numbers can be kept low but from what we have seen that is not possible, there will come a point where we need to lockdown again to prevent hospitals beong overehelmed and other services being curtailed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 03:36:19 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 02:05:10 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:50:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.

i have, i am advocating lockdown again and in the absence of something better and as of now i am.not aware of what that would be another lockdown and another as needs require.

the alternative is herd immunity and i have already provided my reason for not purposing that course inclusing socio-economic reasons.

i have also mentioned that comparing restrictions/lockdown fataility rates with potential herd immunity fatality rates is not comparing like with like. i dont know how much early detection and how much better we are at treating covid is or if the strain has weakened but i think you can agree if hospitals get overwhelm, which they will with herd immunity, they are close with the last 7 months restrictions that more people will die.

you camnot compare the flu those rates are us nearly alwyas having capacity, having a vaccine and living pre covid lives.

if we lived pre covid lives now, how soon would the hosiptals get overwhelmed  and thr fatality rate start to increase!!

Who is mentioning pre-Covid lives?

I think we should have stuck with the way we were living after coming out of the first lockdown.

The bottom line is that people don't fear the virus now, if the problem is a compliance problem then more restrictions aren't going to help when compliance is the problem.

What % of cases requite hospitalisation since we have moved into the second wave. Why have governments not catered for this sufficiently particularly when you look at some of the money being thrown about, surely the health service is the thing that requires the most investment in the immediate term.

you have being comparing against the flu so i assumed you were at least trying im some way to like with like...

what we are doing  now is seeing the grow in numbers of people with covid to the point where lockdowns are being re introduced to prevent the hospitals being overwhelmed. It would be interesting to know what peoples opinions of covid in ireland are but i dont think you can make a sweeping statement like people dont fear the virus now....

the socio-economic impact of a situation where the hospitals are overwhelmed (we need to deal with what we got, not what health system we should have) would be way worst that rolling lockdowns. 

i am all for living with covid if the numbers can be kept low but from what we have seen that is not possible, there will come a point where we need to lockdown again to prevent hospitals beong overehelmed and other services being curtailed.

What I'm comparing with the flu is how we live with a virus that kills, causes massive health problems and puts the health system under immense pressure every single year without making any sort of societal or economic changes.

I don't think it's a case of keeping the numbers low, are the cases kept low for flu every winter? Not really.

It's a case of what sort of impact it will have? We are seeing signs now that the virus does not seem to be anywhere near as fatal as we may have initially thought it was.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on October 18, 2020, 03:38:13 PM
It's not that people don't fear the virus it's more they think they won't get it and it'll happen to somebody else.

Another big problem is people showing symptoms, getting tested and then mixing with people/playing sport before getting the results assuming they'll test negative and thinking it doesn't matter. That's been a major factor in the spread of the virus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 03:49:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 03:36:19 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 02:05:10 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:50:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.

i have, i am advocating lockdown again and in the absence of something better and as of now i am.not aware of what that would be another lockdown and another as needs require.

the alternative is herd immunity and i have already provided my reason for not purposing that course inclusing socio-economic reasons.

i have also mentioned that comparing restrictions/lockdown fataility rates with potential herd immunity fatality rates is not comparing like with like. i dont know how much early detection and how much better we are at treating covid is or if the strain has weakened but i think you can agree if hospitals get overwhelm, which they will with herd immunity, they are close with the last 7 months restrictions that more people will die.

you camnot compare the flu those rates are us nearly alwyas having capacity, having a vaccine and living pre covid lives.

if we lived pre covid lives now, how soon would the hosiptals get overwhelmed  and thr fatality rate start to increase!!

Who is mentioning pre-Covid lives?

I think we should have stuck with the way we were living after coming out of the first lockdown.

The bottom line is that people don't fear the virus now, if the problem is a compliance problem then more restrictions aren't going to help when compliance is the problem.

What % of cases requite hospitalisation since we have moved into the second wave. Why have governments not catered for this sufficiently particularly when you look at some of the money being thrown about, surely the health service is the thing that requires the most investment in the immediate term.

you have being comparing against the flu so i assumed you were at least trying im some way to like with like...

what we are doing  now is seeing the grow in numbers of people with covid to the point where lockdowns are being re introduced to prevent the hospitals being overwhelmed. It would be interesting to know what peoples opinions of covid in ireland are but i dont think you can make a sweeping statement like people dont fear the virus now....

the socio-economic impact of a situation where the hospitals are overwhelmed (we need to deal with what we got, not what health system we should have) would be way worst that rolling lockdowns. 

i am all for living with covid if the numbers can be kept low but from what we have seen that is not possible, there will come a point where we need to lockdown again to prevent hospitals beong overehelmed and other services being curtailed.

What I'm comparing with the flu is how we live with a virus that kills, causes massive health problems and puts the health system under immense pressure every single year without making any sort of societal or economic changes.

I don't think it's a case of keeping the numbers low, are the cases kept low for flu every winter? Not really.

It's a case of what sort of impact it will have? We are seeing signs now that the virus does not seem to be anywhere near as fatal as we may have initially thought it was.

one final time then i give up..

you are comparing the flu figures which has a vaccine, which is seasonal and which our hosiptals can nearly always cope with and everyone lived their "normal" pre covid lives.... to

we dont have a vaccine, its not seasonal and twice it has got close to overwhelming hosiptals and we have seriously changed the way we live our lifes.

to get even close to comparing the full consquences of covid and make at least a decent comparsion to the flu numbers we would need to go back to our lives pre covid and see how many die then.

However, we are not stupid and lockeddown as the level of death if we continued our normal routine would have been way higher than it was back in March/April..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2020, 04:17:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 12:10:32 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 18, 2020, 11:56:03 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 11:43:09 AM
If we are still in this situation next year, there should be no club championships, no formal club competitions, no trophies, no more opportunities for more superspreading events

Just a series of non-competitive matches to keep fit and have a bit of fun, like Go Games

Club games without the competitive edge are a waste of time. Players can keep fit training and in the gym. In a situation like like many will be taking up other sports and won't be coming back to GAA when it returns to competitive action.
Why would they be a waste of time?

It's often said that club players just want to play, and the over emphasis on competition is frequently lamented on here

Playing non-competitive football is far more enjoyable than going to the gym

In fact it's often been said that the ultra-competitive nature of GAA games leads to a smaller playing population than there could or should be

This was the motivating factor behind the "Recreational GAA" idea some years ago which I think Diarmuid Marsden was involved in formulating

The strength of grass roots soccer is that there is a level for everybody

That isn't really the case in GAA

What a pile of shit Sid. You've obviously never been able to kick a ball or swing stick!!

Recreational hurling and football is and has been available for years in clubs, the thirds team is that team.

It's often said that players just want to play... said no GAA player ever
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 18, 2020, 06:05:20 PM
Another bad week. Numbers for the ROI last 7 days.

Cases - 7495 (2985 more than last week)
Reported Deaths - 26 ( 9 more than last week and as ever a number of them didn't happen this month)

In hospital - 274 (73 more than last week)
In ICU - 33 (3 more than this time last week)

It's confirmed further restrictions will be applied to all of the ROI tomorrow. Remains to be seen if its Level 4 and a bit or level 5 and likely for at least the next 6 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 07:55:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 18, 2020, 04:17:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 12:10:32 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on October 18, 2020, 11:56:03 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 18, 2020, 11:43:09 AM
If we are still in this situation next year, there should be no club championships, no formal club competitions, no trophies, no more opportunities for more superspreading events

Just a series of non-competitive matches to keep fit and have a bit of fun, like Go Games

Club games without the competitive edge are a waste of time. Players can keep fit training and in the gym. In a situation like like many will be taking up other sports and won't be coming back to GAA when it returns to competitive action.
Why would they be a waste of time?

It's often said that club players just want to play, and the over emphasis on competition is frequently lamented on here

Playing non-competitive football is far more enjoyable than going to the gym

In fact it's often been said that the ultra-competitive nature of GAA games leads to a smaller playing population than there could or should be

This was the motivating factor behind the "Recreational GAA" idea some years ago which I think Diarmuid Marsden was involved in formulating

The strength of grass roots soccer is that there is a level for everybody

That isn't really the case in GAA

What a pile of shit Sid. You've obviously never been able to kick a ball or swing stick!!

Recreational hurling and football is and has been available for years in clubs, the thirds team is that team.

It's often said that players just want to play... said no GAA player ever
That's strange because the impression I get is that it's the dominant view

Club competitions lead to superspreading events because the club that wins usually can't or refuses to contain themselves afterwards

Society's right to be free of these superspreading events should trump GAA clubs' right to hold them

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 18, 2020, 08:03:01 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 18, 2020, 06:05:20 PM
Another bad week. Numbers for the ROI last 7 days.

Cases - 7495 (2985 more than last week)
Reported Deaths - 26 ( 9 more than last week and as ever a number of them didn't happen this month)

In hospital - 274 (73 more than last week)
In ICU - 33 (3 more than this time last week)

It's confirmed further restrictions will be applied to all of the ROI tomorrow. Remains to be seen if its Level 4 and a bit or level 5 and likely for at least the next 6 weeks.
Deaths trail cases by 7-8 weeks
The big issue is compensating workers esp the low paid and self employed for the lockdowns that will be needed until the vaccine arrives.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 19, 2020, 08:53:20 AM
Anybody know an approximate time the Irish government are going to give the guidelines for the next couple of weeks?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on October 19, 2020, 08:54:26 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 19, 2020, 08:53:20 AM
Anybody know an approximate time the Irish government are going to give the guidelines for the next couple of weeks?
Reckon around 6pm. Hopefully the schools are kept open 🙏
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 19, 2020, 08:59:23 AM
Quote from: laoislad on October 19, 2020, 08:54:26 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 19, 2020, 08:53:20 AM
Anybody know an approximate time the Irish government are going to give the guidelines for the next couple of weeks?
Reckon around 6pm. Hopefully the schools are kept open 🙏
Thanks. Can't see a full level 5, so I reckon the schools will stay open.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 19, 2020, 09:12:51 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.

YOU proved this to be wrong YOURSELF a few days ago.  (If you want me to re-post it, I will - but it was an absolute redner moment for you, so I'm sure you remember)

The fact that you keep repeating it shows that you are either a wilful liar or dangerously stupid.

Any posts you make here should be read with this in mind.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 09:18:55 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 19, 2020, 09:12:51 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.

YOU proved this to be wrong YOURSELF a few days ago.  (If you want me to re-post it, I will - but it was an absolute redner moment for you, so I'm sure you remember)

The fact that you keep repeating it shows that you are either a wilful liar or dangerously stupid.

Any posts you make here should be read with this in mind.

Incorrect. The fatality rates in the 2nd wave of Covid are currently much lower in the 26 than they were in the 2017/18 seasonal flu.

It will be interesting to see how they hold up. I think it was you who was making completely unfounded claims about a novel virus that you know nothing about. I can post that up to remind people that you shouldn't be listened to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 09:24:49 AM
Free State Active Cases - circa 25k
ICU admitted - 31
0.12% of cases in ICU

O6 Active Cases - circa 24k
ICU admitted 30
0.12% of cases in ICU

If those stats stabilise or decrease, is it really worth the negative consequences of lockdown and restrictions that a lot of posters seem to completely ignore? Is it worth an increase in domestic violence, potential suicides, job losses, business closures and other societal issues which are caused?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 19, 2020, 09:36:30 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 09:24:49 AM
Free State Active Cases - circa 25k
ICU admitted - 31
0.12% of cases in ICU

O6 Active Cases - circa 24k
ICU admitted 30
0.12% of cases in ICU

If those stats stabilise or decrease, is it really worth the negative consequences of lockdown and restrictions that a lot of posters seem to completely ignore? Is it worth an increase in domestic violence, potential suicides, job losses, business closures and other societal issues which are caused?

If those figures are correct, no, it's not worth the consequences.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on October 19, 2020, 09:46:13 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 19, 2020, 09:36:30 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 09:24:49 AM
Free State Active Cases - circa 25k
ICU admitted - 31
0.12% of cases in ICU

O6 Active Cases - circa 24k
ICU admitted 30
0.12% of cases in ICU

If those stats stabilise or decrease, is it really worth the negative consequences of lockdown and restrictions that a lot of posters seem to completely ignore? Is it worth an increase in domestic violence, potential suicides, job losses, business closures and other societal issues which are caused?

If those figures are correct, no, it's not worth the consequences.

Depends if you're looking for a bed in the ICU or not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 19, 2020, 09:51:37 AM
Going really simple on this one, the ICU bed situation is not really the result of a Covid problem, it's cut upon cut upon cut to the NHS over many years / decades. Nobody was prepared for something like this I suppose.

The simple answer is create more ICU units, is it not? But with regards to how long that would take / staff. I have no idea.

As previously pointed out, the Chinese threw a hospital up in days. It can be done, if they want to. There is still a host of Cuban doctors and nurses going around the world helping out in the hot spots, these people are there if they are truly wanted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 19, 2020, 09:54:20 AM
Probably years - it's more the staffing than the logistics of beds etc. Even that nightingale thing is a mess. They're putting in staff who aren't qualified or experienced in ICU stuff and then just putting experienced staff in charge.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 09:55:03 AM
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-10-slovakia-country-coronavirus.html

This should certainly be practical for an island the size of Ireland.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 09:57:42 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 19, 2020, 09:51:37 AM
Going really simple on this one, the ICU bed situation is not really the result of a Covid problem, it's cut upon cut upon cut to the NHS over many years / decades. Nobody was prepared for something like this I suppose.

It's much easier to blame people for not complying when the nub of the issue is government policies for decades that leads to a dysfunctional health service.

People complied with the first lockdown to buy governments time to sort out the messes they had created, they wasted that time and I can't see the general public buying in as much this time, that is obvious.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 19, 2020, 10:01:15 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 19, 2020, 09:36:30 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 09:24:49 AM
Free State Active Cases - circa 25k
ICU admitted - 31
0.12% of cases in ICU

O6 Active Cases - circa 24k
ICU admitted 30
0.12% of cases in ICU

If those stats stabilise or decrease, is it really worth the negative consequences of lockdown and restrictions that a lot of posters seem to completely ignore? Is it worth an increase in domestic violence, potential suicides, job losses, business closures and other societal issues which are caused?

If those figures are correct, no, it's not worth the consequences.
That's like quoting current road deaths statistics to justify abolishing seat belts and legalising drink driving

56 people were killed on NI roads in 2019

But if you abolished seat belts and legalised drink driving you'd get a hell of a lot more people killed


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 10:06:56 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 19, 2020, 10:01:15 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 19, 2020, 09:36:30 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 09:24:49 AM
Free State Active Cases - circa 25k
ICU admitted - 31
0.12% of cases in ICU

O6 Active Cases - circa 24k
ICU admitted 30
0.12% of cases in ICU

If those stats stabilise or decrease, is it really worth the negative consequences of lockdown and restrictions that a lot of posters seem to completely ignore? Is it worth an increase in domestic violence, potential suicides, job losses, business closures and other societal issues which are caused?

If those figures are correct, no, it's not worth the consequences.
That's like quoting current road deaths statistics to justify abolishing seat belts and legalising drink driving

56 people were killed on NI roads in 2019

But if you abolished seat belts and legalised drink driving you'd get a hell of a lot more people killed

You've got tunnel vision on Covid. What about the detrimental consequences of lockdowns?

If you banned people from driving, reduced speed limits to 20mph, only allowed 1,000 vehicles on our roads at any one time, you'd also have a lot less people killed on the roads but what would be the consequences of that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 19, 2020, 10:32:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 10:06:56 AM
If you banned people from driving, reduced speed limits to 20mph, only allowed 1,000 vehicles on our roads at any one time, you'd also have a lot less people killed on the roads but what would be the consequences of that?

Driving is the perfect example, it has proved possible to reduce road fatalities to one tenth, because people wised up, not least because of enforcement, but also social pressure etc. So there is no need for drastic measures. If people wised up then there would be no need for excessive Covid restrictions either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 19, 2020, 10:33:10 AM
The more people who get Covid = more cases requiring Hospitalisation = less beds for cancer, heart patients, car accidents etc.
The more Covid cases in Hospital = more Covid cases in ICU = less ICU beds for cancer etc.

Blathering (truthfully but we are where we are) about lack of investment in health services down the years is a bit like looking for directions and being told
"I wouldn't be starting from here if I was you"

Remember it's down to YOU!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 19, 2020, 10:39:10 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 19, 2020, 10:33:10 AM
The more people who get Covid = more cases requiring Hospitalisation = less beds for cancer, heart patients, car accidents etc.
The more Covid cases in Hospital = more Covid cases in ICU = less ICU beds for cancer etc.

Blathering (truthfully but we are where we are) about lack of investment in health services down the years is a bit like looking for directions and being told
"I wouldn't be starting from here if I was you"

Remember it's down to YOU!

Fair enough point, but I would still argue if the NHS (for myself up here) was run right, there wouldn't be half the need for the restrictions now in place.

It's like that caper of clapping for the Nurses etc at the start, everybody and their granny knew they would never get a pay rise, now they know that and have absolutely no motivation whatsoever (from the few I know personally). Would we not have been safer investing money into the NHS/Staff instead of ridiculous notions like "Eat out to help out" (which was arguably the biggest fiasco, considering these people were first closed....again).

Considering a large part of the population now, so to speak, are washing their hands of Covid. Looks like we are destined for another few goes on the merrygoround.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on October 19, 2020, 10:44:24 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 19, 2020, 09:51:37 AM
Going really simple on this one, the ICU bed situation is not really the result of a Covid problem, it's cut upon cut upon cut to the NHS over many years / decades. Nobody was prepared for something like this I suppose.

The simple answer is create more ICU units, is it not? But with regards to how long that would take / staff. I have no idea.

As previously pointed out, the Chinese threw a hospital up in days. It can be done, if they want to. There is still a host of Cuban doctors and nurses going around the world helping out in the hot spots, these people are there if they are truly wanted.

Sure we'll get JCB and McClaren to rattle up a few ventilators in their spare time.

The reality is there's X number of ICU beds in the here and now and it'll take years for specialist doctors and nurses to be trained up to be able to function in that environment. It normally takes one specialist ICU nurse per bed, 24 hours a day let alone the number of specialist doctors in there as well.

So, yes the NHS has been underfunded for years and in the case of the wee six badly mismanaged for decades and wee Robin isn't going to be able to solve that anytime soon so what can he do but try and mitigate the losses and body count as best he can.
Yes, the treatments seem to have improved but we're still seeing the ICU's filling up rather quickly in the last number of days and with the lag in this disease that trend will in all likelihood increase for the next week or so.

It's far from ideal, but are you prepared to sacrifice your vulnerable family members to keep the pubs open?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 19, 2020, 10:45:49 AM
QuoteRemember it's down to YOU!

This is a gross over simplification of things.

Is it down to you that loads of young adults have been forced into university halls of residence?

What about people who have suffered it through school?

What about people who have no sick pay and no money so are scared to not go to work?

There are so many more factors to this than some people are "a bit stupid".

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 10:47:27 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 19, 2020, 10:32:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 10:06:56 AM
If you banned people from driving, reduced speed limits to 20mph, only allowed 1,000 vehicles on our roads at any one time, you'd also have a lot less people killed on the roads but what would be the consequences of that?

Driving is the perfect example, it has proved possible to reduce road fatalities to one tenth, because people wised up, not least because of enforcement, but also social pressure etc. So there is no need for drastic measures. If people wised up then there would be no need for excessive Covid restrictions either.

Have people wised up or is it just that cars are safer now, are regularly tested and deemed roadworthy, road networks have been vastly improved etc?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 10:50:17 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 19, 2020, 10:33:10 AM
The more people who get Covid = more cases requiring Hospitalisation = less beds for cancer, heart patients, car accidents etc.
The more Covid cases in Hospital = more Covid cases in ICU = less ICU beds for cancer etc.

Blathering (truthfully but we are where we are) about lack of investment in health services down the years is a bit like looking for directions and being told
"I wouldn't be starting from here if I was you"

Remember it's down to YOU!

More Covid tunnel vision.

What about lockdowns and their detrimental impacts, why don't they come under your lens? We all complied with a first lockdown to bring cases down, we did that to buy governments time to put in places facilities, procedures and mechanisms to deal with Covid. They failed and are now trying to pin that failure back on the people.

Why don't they show some leadership like the Slovaks are now doing and actually tried to tackle Covid in a forward thinking manner?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 19, 2020, 10:51:53 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 19, 2020, 10:44:24 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 19, 2020, 09:51:37 AM
Going really simple on this one, the ICU bed situation is not really the result of a Covid problem, it's cut upon cut upon cut to the NHS over many years / decades. Nobody was prepared for something like this I suppose.

The simple answer is create more ICU units, is it not? But with regards to how long that would take / staff. I have no idea.

As previously pointed out, the Chinese threw a hospital up in days. It can be done, if they want to. There is still a host of Cuban doctors and nurses going around the world helping out in the hot spots, these people are there if they are truly wanted.

Sure we'll get JCB and McClaren to rattle up a few ventilators in their spare time.

The reality is there's X number of ICU beds in the here and now and it'll take years for specialist doctors and nurses to be trained up to be able to function in that environment. It normally takes one specialist ICU nurse per bed, 24 hours a day let alone the number of specialist doctors in there as well.

So, yes the NHS has been underfunded for years and in the case of the wee six badly mismanaged for decades and wee Robin isn't going to be able to solve that anytime soon so what can he do but try and mitigate the losses and body count as best he can.
Yes, the treatments seem to have improved but we're still seeing the ICU's filling up rather quickly in the last number of days and with the lag in this disease that trend will in all likelihood increase for the next week or so.

It's far from ideal, but are you prepared to sacrifice your vulnerable family members to keep the pubs open?

Christ, if it was just the bars spread this thing it would have been eradicated in April. Come on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 19, 2020, 10:55:50 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 10:47:27 AM
Have people wised up or is it just that cars are safer now, are regularly tested and deemed roadworthy, road networks have been vastly improved etc?

Both, although most roads having changed that much, but the accidents on them are still less. Covid too can be mitigated if shops have PVC screens, if people wear masks, if they have better ventilation etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 10:59:29 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 19, 2020, 10:44:24 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 19, 2020, 09:51:37 AM
Going really simple on this one, the ICU bed situation is not really the result of a Covid problem, it's cut upon cut upon cut to the NHS over many years / decades. Nobody was prepared for something like this I suppose.

The simple answer is create more ICU units, is it not? But with regards to how long that would take / staff. I have no idea.

As previously pointed out, the Chinese threw a hospital up in days. It can be done, if they want to. There is still a host of Cuban doctors and nurses going around the world helping out in the hot spots, these people are there if they are truly wanted.

Sure we'll get JCB and McClaren to rattle up a few ventilators in their spare time.

The reality is there's X number of ICU beds in the here and now and it'll take years for specialist doctors and nurses to be trained up to be able to function in that environment. It normally takes one specialist ICU nurse per bed, 24 hours a day let alone the number of specialist doctors in there as well.

So, yes the NHS has been underfunded for years and in the case of the wee six badly mismanaged for decades and wee Robin isn't going to be able to solve that anytime soon so what can he do but try and mitigate the losses and body count as best he can.
Yes, the treatments seem to have improved but we're still seeing the ICU's filling up rather quickly in the last number of days and with the lag in this disease that trend will in all likelihood increase for the next week or so.

It's far from ideal, but are you prepared to sacrifice your vulnerable family members to keep the pubs open?

This sort of bullshit "to keep the pubs open".

It's not about pubs, what about elderly people who live alone who now live their last few years of their lives in fear, isolation, afraid to open the door. People whose only real social outlet might have been mass on a Sunday morning or a few pints on Fri/Sat night or a bingo night etc? What sort of quality of life is that for them? What about all the youths who should be living life carefree as every generation before them was able to at that generation? What about people who lose their jobs and livelihoods? What about other services and supports for the vulnerable in our society which have been cut and stopped as a result of Covid tunnel vision. Recovering addicts and the likes who no longer have their support systems in place, people with mental health problems who have their support systems interfered with, people with physical and mental disabilities who no longer can get the support and treatment they would in normal circumstances?

The negative impacts of lockdowns and restrictions have absolutely enormous far-reaching consequences for the whole population so at which point are we actually going to look at Covid and say the extent at which we have become consumed by trying to fight it has been counter-productive?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 11:01:34 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 19, 2020, 10:55:50 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 10:47:27 AM
Have people wised up or is it just that cars are safer now, are regularly tested and deemed roadworthy, road networks have been vastly improved etc?

Both, although most roads having changed that much, but the accidents on them are still less. Covid too can be mitigated if shops have PVC screens, if people wear masks, if they have better ventilation etc.

No problem with those measures but lockdowns and restrictions have severe far-reaching negative consequences which seem to be brushed aside by those advocating for such lockdowns and if the data on the second wave of Covid continues I can't see the logic in the benefits of lockdown outweighing the massive consequences of that course of action.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 19, 2020, 11:55:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 09:18:55 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 19, 2020, 09:12:51 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.

YOU proved this to be wrong YOURSELF a few days ago.  (If you want me to re-post it, I will - but it was an absolute redner moment for you, so I'm sure you remember)

The fact that you keep repeating it shows that you are either a wilful liar or dangerously stupid.

Any posts you make here should be read with this in mind.

Incorrect. The fatality rates in the 2nd wave of Covid are currently much lower in the 26 than they were in the 2017/18 seasonal flu.

It will be interesting to see how they hold up. I think it was you who was making completely unfounded claims about a novel virus that you know nothing about. I can post that up to remind people that you shouldn't be listened to.

My only claim was that it is worse than the flu.

Thankfully, you detailed out a lovely (albeit mathematically flawed) example, drawn from your own extensive knowledge on the subject matter, which proved it to be correct.

And like I said, the fact that you keep repeating this means you are either;

1. A liar
2. Thick as champ
3. Both of the above
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 11:59:37 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 19, 2020, 11:55:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 09:18:55 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 19, 2020, 09:12:51 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.

YOU proved this to be wrong YOURSELF a few days ago.  (If you want me to re-post it, I will - but it was an absolute redner moment for you, so I'm sure you remember)

The fact that you keep repeating it shows that you are either a wilful liar or dangerously stupid.

Any posts you make here should be read with this in mind.

Incorrect. The fatality rates in the 2nd wave of Covid are currently much lower in the 26 than they were in the 2017/18 seasonal flu.

It will be interesting to see how they hold up. I think it was you who was making completely unfounded claims about a novel virus that you know nothing about. I can post that up to remind people that you shouldn't be listened to.

My only claim was that it is worse than the flu.

Thankfully, you detailed out a lovely (albeit mathematically flawed) example, drawn from your own extensive knowledge on the subject matter, which proved it to be correct.

And like I said, the fact that you keep repeating this means you are either;

1. A liar
2. Thick as champ
3. Both of the above

Your claim was something you haven't the foggiest idea about.

I pointed out the data from the second wave which contradicts your idiocy. Stupidity and arrogance and dangerous bedfellows and you are a prime example of that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 19, 2020, 12:09:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 11:59:37 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 19, 2020, 11:55:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 09:18:55 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 19, 2020, 09:12:51 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.

YOU proved this to be wrong YOURSELF a few days ago.  (If you want me to re-post it, I will - but it was an absolute redner moment for you, so I'm sure you remember)

The fact that you keep repeating it shows that you are either a wilful liar or dangerously stupid.

Any posts you make here should be read with this in mind.

Incorrect. The fatality rates in the 2nd wave of Covid are currently much lower in the 26 than they were in the 2017/18 seasonal flu.

It will be interesting to see how they hold up. I think it was you who was making completely unfounded claims about a novel virus that you know nothing about. I can post that up to remind people that you shouldn't be listened to.

My only claim was that it is worse than the flu.

Thankfully, you detailed out a lovely (albeit mathematically flawed) example, drawn from your own extensive knowledge on the subject matter, which proved it to be correct.

And like I said, the fact that you keep repeating this means you are either;

1. A liar
2. Thick as champ
3. Both of the above

Your claim was something you haven't the foggiest idea about.

I pointed out the data from the second wave which contradicts your idiocy. Stupidity and arrogance and dangerous bedfellows and you are a prime example of that.

You posted the numbers.  Not some 'scientist', not me, YOU.

The numbers clearly proved that Covid killed as many people in 10 weeks as flu had in a year.

So which bracket are you in?

1. A liar
2. Thick as champ
3. Both of the above
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 12:22:58 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 19, 2020, 12:09:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 11:59:37 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 19, 2020, 11:55:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 09:18:55 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 19, 2020, 09:12:51 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.

YOU proved this to be wrong YOURSELF a few days ago.  (If you want me to re-post it, I will - but it was an absolute redner moment for you, so I'm sure you remember)

The fact that you keep repeating it shows that you are either a wilful liar or dangerously stupid.

Any posts you make here should be read with this in mind.

Incorrect. The fatality rates in the 2nd wave of Covid are currently much lower in the 26 than they were in the 2017/18 seasonal flu.

It will be interesting to see how they hold up. I think it was you who was making completely unfounded claims about a novel virus that you know nothing about. I can post that up to remind people that you shouldn't be listened to.

My only claim was that it is worse than the flu.

Thankfully, you detailed out a lovely (albeit mathematically flawed) example, drawn from your own extensive knowledge on the subject matter, which proved it to be correct.

And like I said, the fact that you keep repeating this means you are either;

1. A liar
2. Thick as champ
3. Both of the above

Your claim was something you haven't the foggiest idea about.

I pointed out the data from the second wave which contradicts your idiocy. Stupidity and arrogance and dangerous bedfellows and you are a prime example of that.

You posted the numbers.  Not some 'scientist', not me, YOU.

The numbers clearly proved that Covid killed as many people in 10 weeks as flu had in a year.

So which bracket are you in?

1. A liar
2. Thick as champ
3. Both of the above

So the numbers who die from flu every year are completely acceptable to you?

That's interesting as the fatality rate of Covid is coming very much in line with flu in this second wave. In fact in the 26, the fatality rate of Covid is significant lower than flu during this second wave.

I just find it odd the people who are so precious about the dangers of Covid don't seem to care a jot about the people who lose their lives from flu on an annual basis.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 19, 2020, 12:27:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 12:22:58 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 19, 2020, 12:09:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 11:59:37 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 19, 2020, 11:55:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 09:18:55 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 19, 2020, 09:12:51 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.

YOU proved this to be wrong YOURSELF a few days ago.  (If you want me to re-post it, I will - but it was an absolute redner moment for you, so I'm sure you remember)

The fact that you keep repeating it shows that you are either a wilful liar or dangerously stupid.

Any posts you make here should be read with this in mind.

Incorrect. The fatality rates in the 2nd wave of Covid are currently much lower in the 26 than they were in the 2017/18 seasonal flu.

It will be interesting to see how they hold up. I think it was you who was making completely unfounded claims about a novel virus that you know nothing about. I can post that up to remind people that you shouldn't be listened to.

My only claim was that it is worse than the flu.

Thankfully, you detailed out a lovely (albeit mathematically flawed) example, drawn from your own extensive knowledge on the subject matter, which proved it to be correct.

And like I said, the fact that you keep repeating this means you are either;

1. A liar
2. Thick as champ
3. Both of the above

Your claim was something you haven't the foggiest idea about.

I pointed out the data from the second wave which contradicts your idiocy. Stupidity and arrogance and dangerous bedfellows and you are a prime example of that.

You posted the numbers.  Not some 'scientist', not me, YOU.

The numbers clearly proved that Covid killed as many people in 10 weeks as flu had in a year.

So which bracket are you in?

1. A liar
2. Thick as champ
3. Both of the above

So the numbers who die from flu every year are completely acceptable to you?

That's interesting as the fatality rate of Covid is coming very much in line with flu in this second wave. In fact in the 26, the fatality rate of Covid is significant lower than flu during this second wave.

I just find it odd the people who are so precious about the dangers of Covid don't seem to care a jot about the people who lose their lives from flu on an annual basis.

Of course we care, thats why there's a massive vaccination program every autumn (currently ongoing). Unfortunately there is no COVID vaccine yet, so we have to take the measures until such times that there is.

The argument that Covid-19 is not to be taken seriously really is ridiculous and one which has been proven wrong a long time ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 12:34:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 19, 2020, 12:27:31 PM


Of course we care, thats why there's a massive vaccination program every autumn (currently ongoing). Unfortunately there is no COVID vaccine yet, so we have to take the measures until such times that there is.

The argument that Covid-19 is not to be taken seriously really is ridiculous and one which has been proven wrong a long time ago.

Who is saying it's not to be taken seriously?

People seem to getting Covid tunnel vision though and they cannot see the woods from the trees.

The fact is that introducing a second lockdown, excessive restrictions and potential future lockdowns on the line to fight Covid is going to cause more damage than good down the line should not be conflated with saying that Covid shouldn't be taken seriously.

And that's what so many people are losing sight of.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 12:49:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 03:49:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 03:36:19 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 02:05:10 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:50:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.

i have, i am advocating lockdown again and in the absence of something better and as of now i am.not aware of what that would be another lockdown and another as needs require.

the alternative is herd immunity and i have already provided my reason for not purposing that course inclusing socio-economic reasons.

i have also mentioned that comparing restrictions/lockdown fataility rates with potential herd immunity fatality rates is not comparing like with like. i dont know how much early detection and how much better we are at treating covid is or if the strain has weakened but i think you can agree if hospitals get overwhelm, which they will with herd immunity, they are close with the last 7 months restrictions that more people will die.

you camnot compare the flu those rates are us nearly alwyas having capacity, having a vaccine and living pre covid lives.

if we lived pre covid lives now, how soon would the hosiptals get overwhelmed  and thr fatality rate start to increase!!

Who is mentioning pre-Covid lives?

I think we should have stuck with the way we were living after coming out of the first lockdown.

The bottom line is that people don't fear the virus now, if the problem is a compliance problem then more restrictions aren't going to help when compliance is the problem.

What % of cases requite hospitalisation since we have moved into the second wave. Why have governments not catered for this sufficiently particularly when you look at some of the money being thrown about, surely the health service is the thing that requires the most investment in the immediate term.

you have being comparing against the flu so i assumed you were at least trying im some way to like with like...

what we are doing  now is seeing the grow in numbers of people with covid to the point where lockdowns are being re introduced to prevent the hospitals being overwhelmed. It would be interesting to know what peoples opinions of covid in ireland are but i dont think you can make a sweeping statement like people dont fear the virus now....

the socio-economic impact of a situation where the hospitals are overwhelmed (we need to deal with what we got, not what health system we should have) would be way worst that rolling lockdowns. 

i am all for living with covid if the numbers can be kept low but from what we have seen that is not possible, there will come a point where we need to lockdown again to prevent hospitals beong overehelmed and other services being curtailed.

What I'm comparing with the flu is how we live with a virus that kills, causes massive health problems and puts the health system under immense pressure every single year without making any sort of societal or economic changes.

I don't think it's a case of keeping the numbers low, are the cases kept low for flu every winter? Not really.

It's a case of what sort of impact it will have? We are seeing signs now that the virus does not seem to be anywhere near as fatal as we may have initially thought it was.

one final time then i give up..

you are comparing the flu figures which has a vaccine, which is seasonal and which our hosiptals can nearly always cope with and everyone lived their "normal" pre covid lives.... to

we dont have a vaccine, its not seasonal and twice it has got close to overwhelming hosiptals and we have seriously changed the way we live our lifes.

to get even close to comparing the full consquences of covid and make at least a decent comparsion to the flu numbers we would need to go back to our lives pre covid and see how many die then.

However, we are not stupid and lockeddown as the level of death if we continued our normal routine would have been way higher than it was back in March/April..

can you compare the flu fatality rate with covid if there was no restrictions and we went about our lives as we did pre march?

There are 4 options that i can see

1. do nothing different...
2. herd immunity
3. live with covid (undefined but as close as i can figure you are suggesting)
4. lockdown to protect health service being overwhelm.if required.

what are the socio-economic and health implications of these?

We lockeddown as we nothing very little and experience ln other countries told us it protected the health system being overwhelmed.

3. we then tried to live with covid, but it hasnt worked despite the slow opening up and restrictions still on what we did pre covid, we imposed further restrictions and they dont appear to have worked either. You are proposing we continue with something similar to this when it hasnt worked, we are getting closer to an overwhelm healthcare system again and all the socio-economic and heath issues this would cause. you completing ignore this part, it appears only lockdown has a socio economic impact in your eyes.. which is wrong.

1. thousands would likely died
2. we cannot silo the vulnerable, we have tired during living with covid but have failed.

4. loxkdown if required - this is where we are now as living with covid didnt work imo. we didnt protect the vulnerbale, we didnt keep numbers down, we are going to overwhelm the healthcare system. As a result there will be socio econmic impacts which i havent ignored.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 12:50:19 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2020, 12:44:20 PM
How can you know it will cause more damage than good?

How can you know it won't?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 19, 2020, 12:53:03 PM
#angelofact
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 12:54:33 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 12:49:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 03:49:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 03:36:19 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 02:05:10 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:50:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.

i have, i am advocating lockdown again and in the absence of something better and as of now i am.not aware of what that would be another lockdown and another as needs require.

the alternative is herd immunity and i have already provided my reason for not purposing that course inclusing socio-economic reasons.

i have also mentioned that comparing restrictions/lockdown fataility rates with potential herd immunity fatality rates is not comparing like with like. i dont know how much early detection and how much better we are at treating covid is or if the strain has weakened but i think you can agree if hospitals get overwhelm, which they will with herd immunity, they are close with the last 7 months restrictions that more people will die.

you camnot compare the flu those rates are us nearly alwyas having capacity, having a vaccine and living pre covid lives.

if we lived pre covid lives now, how soon would the hosiptals get overwhelmed  and thr fatality rate start to increase!!

Who is mentioning pre-Covid lives?

I think we should have stuck with the way we were living after coming out of the first lockdown.

The bottom line is that people don't fear the virus now, if the problem is a compliance problem then more restrictions aren't going to help when compliance is the problem.

What % of cases requite hospitalisation since we have moved into the second wave. Why have governments not catered for this sufficiently particularly when you look at some of the money being thrown about, surely the health service is the thing that requires the most investment in the immediate term.

you have being comparing against the flu so i assumed you were at least trying im some way to like with like...

what we are doing  now is seeing the grow in numbers of people with covid to the point where lockdowns are being re introduced to prevent the hospitals being overwhelmed. It would be interesting to know what peoples opinions of covid in ireland are but i dont think you can make a sweeping statement like people dont fear the virus now....

the socio-economic impact of a situation where the hospitals are overwhelmed (we need to deal with what we got, not what health system we should have) would be way worst that rolling lockdowns. 

i am all for living with covid if the numbers can be kept low but from what we have seen that is not possible, there will come a point where we need to lockdown again to prevent hospitals beong overehelmed and other services being curtailed.

What I'm comparing with the flu is how we live with a virus that kills, causes massive health problems and puts the health system under immense pressure every single year without making any sort of societal or economic changes.

I don't think it's a case of keeping the numbers low, are the cases kept low for flu every winter? Not really.

It's a case of what sort of impact it will have? We are seeing signs now that the virus does not seem to be anywhere near as fatal as we may have initially thought it was.

one final time then i give up..

you are comparing the flu figures which has a vaccine, which is seasonal and which our hosiptals can nearly always cope with and everyone lived their "normal" pre covid lives.... to

we dont have a vaccine, its not seasonal and twice it has got close to overwhelming hosiptals and we have seriously changed the way we live our lifes.

to get even close to comparing the full consquences of covid and make at least a decent comparsion to the flu numbers we would need to go back to our lives pre covid and see how many die then.

However, we are not stupid and lockeddown as the level of death if we continued our normal routine would have been way higher than it was back in March/April..

can you compare the flu fatality rate with covid if there was no restrictions and we went about our lives as we did pre march?

There are 4 options that i can see

1. do nothing different...
2. herd immunity
3. live with covid (undefined but as close as i can figure you are suggesting)
4. lockdown to protect health service being overwhelm.if required.

what are the socio-economic and health implications of these?

We lockeddown as we nothing very little and experience ln other countries told us it protected the health system being overwhelmed.

3. we then tried to live with covid, but it hasnt worked despite the slow opening up and restrictions still on what we did pre covid, we imposed further restrictions and they dont appear to have worked either. You are proposing we continue with something similar to this when it hasnt worked, we are getting closer to an overwhelm healthcare system again and all the socio-economic and heath issues this would cause. you completing ignore this part, it appears only lockdown has a socio economic impact in your eyes.. which is wrong.

1. thousands would likely died
2. we cannot silo the vulnerable, we have tired during living with covid but have failed.

4. loxkdown if required - this is where we are now as living with covid didnt work imo. we didnt protect the vulnerbale, we didnt keep numbers down, we are going to overwhelm the healthcare system. As a result there will be socio econmic impacts which i havent ignored.

What have the effects of us living with Covid been?

As far as I've seen the fatality rate since we gradually reopened up was something like 0.4%. The average age of people who died is in their 80s, most with underlying health conditions so there's a lot of contention about what is really the cause of death here.

Look at what Slovakia are doing now, mass testing the entire nation in a very short space of time, grabbing the bull by the horns to see if they can deal with it. How do we know living with Covid didn't work? Are multiple lockdowns and potential of living in this state of flux long term a viable solution do you think because governments haven't shown us any other alternative yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 01:01:11 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2020, 12:51:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 12:50:19 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 19, 2020, 12:44:20 PM
How can you know it will cause more damage than good?

How can you know it won't?
You've stated it as a "fact". I haven't.

Poor choice of wording, my opinion would be it will.

We don't know though but with the current data that's coming through all across Europe on how the fatality rate is dropping in double digit multiples I think this course of action is excessive and will do more damage than good.

People are completely consumed by Covid fear and ignoring the damages of the measures being taken to curb it.

Is there a focus on domestic violence incidents seeing a 50% increase during lockdown? What if 2 years down the line we see an increase in suicides in 2020 by 80%? These things aren't going to be established for years down the line and when we have that information at hand it could be increasingly obvious that lockdowns caused more harm on a societal whole than Covid did or would have.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 19, 2020, 01:14:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 12:22:58 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 19, 2020, 12:09:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 11:59:37 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 19, 2020, 11:55:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 09:18:55 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 19, 2020, 09:12:51 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.

YOU proved this to be wrong YOURSELF a few days ago.  (If you want me to re-post it, I will - but it was an absolute redner moment for you, so I'm sure you remember)

The fact that you keep repeating it shows that you are either a wilful liar or dangerously stupid.

Any posts you make here should be read with this in mind.

Incorrect. The fatality rates in the 2nd wave of Covid are currently much lower in the 26 than they were in the 2017/18 seasonal flu.

It will be interesting to see how they hold up. I think it was you who was making completely unfounded claims about a novel virus that you know nothing about. I can post that up to remind people that you shouldn't be listened to.

My only claim was that it is worse than the flu.

Thankfully, you detailed out a lovely (albeit mathematically flawed) example, drawn from your own extensive knowledge on the subject matter, which proved it to be correct.

And like I said, the fact that you keep repeating this means you are either;

1. A liar
2. Thick as champ
3. Both of the above

Your claim was something you haven't the foggiest idea about.

I pointed out the data from the second wave which contradicts your idiocy. Stupidity and arrogance and dangerous bedfellows and you are a prime example of that.

You posted the numbers.  Not some 'scientist', not me, YOU.

The numbers clearly proved that Covid killed as many people in 10 weeks as flu had in a year.

So which bracket are you in?

1. A liar
2. Thick as champ
3. Both of the above

So the numbers who die from flu every year are completely acceptable to you?

That's interesting as the fatality rate of Covid is coming very much in line with flu in this second wave. In fact in the 26, the fatality rate of Covid is significant lower than flu during this second wave.

I just find it odd the people who are so precious about the dangers of Covid don't seem to care a jot about the people who lose their lives from flu on an annual basis.

Straw man
Move goalposts
Fatality rate
Fatality rate
Straw man

Option 3 it is then.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on October 19, 2020, 01:30:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 10:59:29 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 19, 2020, 10:44:24 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 19, 2020, 09:51:37 AM
Going really simple on this one, the ICU bed situation is not really the result of a Covid problem, it's cut upon cut upon cut to the NHS over many years / decades. Nobody was prepared for something like this I suppose.

The simple answer is create more ICU units, is it not? But with regards to how long that would take / staff. I have no idea.

As previously pointed out, the Chinese threw a hospital up in days. It can be done, if they want to. There is still a host of Cuban doctors and nurses going around the world helping out in the hot spots, these people are there if they are truly wanted.

Sure we'll get JCB and McClaren to rattle up a few ventilators in their spare time.

The reality is there's X number of ICU beds in the here and now and it'll take years for specialist doctors and nurses to be trained up to be able to function in that environment. It normally takes one specialist ICU nurse per bed, 24 hours a day let alone the number of specialist doctors in there as well.

So, yes the NHS has been underfunded for years and in the case of the wee six badly mismanaged for decades and wee Robin isn't going to be able to solve that anytime soon so what can he do but try and mitigate the losses and body count as best he can.
Yes, the treatments seem to have improved but we're still seeing the ICU's filling up rather quickly in the last number of days and with the lag in this disease that trend will in all likelihood increase for the next week or so.

It's far from ideal, but are you prepared to sacrifice your vulnerable family members to keep the pubs open?

This sort of bullshit "to keep the pubs open".

It's not about pubs, what about elderly people who live alone who now live their last few years of their lives in fear, isolation, afraid to open the door. People whose only real social outlet might have been mass on a Sunday morning or a few pints on Fri/Sat night or a bingo night etc? What sort of quality of life is that for them? What about all the youths who should be living life carefree as every generation before them was able to at that generation? What about people who lose their jobs and livelihoods? What about other services and supports for the vulnerable in our society which have been cut and stopped as a result of Covid tunnel vision. Recovering addicts and the likes who no longer have their support systems in place, people with mental health problems who have their support systems interfered with, people with physical and mental disabilities who no longer can get the support and treatment they would in normal circumstances?

The negative impacts of lockdowns and restrictions have absolutely enormous far-reaching consequences for the whole population so at which point are we actually going to look at Covid and say the extent at which we have become consumed by trying to fight it has been counter-productive?

All those points are valid, but are you prepared to lose an elderly parent or relation in the pursuit of it?

Simple question really.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 01:37:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 12:54:33 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 12:49:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 03:49:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 03:36:19 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 02:05:10 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:50:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.

i have, i am advocating lockdown again and in the absence of something better and as of now i am.not aware of what that would be another lockdown and another as needs require.

the alternative is herd immunity and i have already provided my reason for not purposing that course inclusing socio-economic reasons.

i have also mentioned that comparing restrictions/lockdown fataility rates with potential herd immunity fatality rates is not comparing like with like. i dont know how much early detection and how much better we are at treating covid is or if the strain has weakened but i think you can agree if hospitals get overwhelm, which they will with herd immunity, they are close with the last 7 months restrictions that more people will die.

you camnot compare the flu those rates are us nearly alwyas having capacity, having a vaccine and living pre covid lives.

if we lived pre covid lives now, how soon would the hosiptals get overwhelmed  and thr fatality rate start to increase!!

Who is mentioning pre-Covid lives?

I think we should have stuck with the way we were living after coming out of the first lockdown.

The bottom line is that people don't fear the virus now, if the problem is a compliance problem then more restrictions aren't going to help when compliance is the problem.

What % of cases requite hospitalisation since we have moved into the second wave. Why have governments not catered for this sufficiently particularly when you look at some of the money being thrown about, surely the health service is the thing that requires the most investment in the immediate term.

you have being comparing against the flu so i assumed you were at least trying im some way to like with like...

what we are doing  now is seeing the grow in numbers of people with covid to the point where lockdowns are being re introduced to prevent the hospitals being overwhelmed. It would be interesting to know what peoples opinions of covid in ireland are but i dont think you can make a sweeping statement like people dont fear the virus now....

the socio-economic impact of a situation where the hospitals are overwhelmed (we need to deal with what we got, not what health system we should have) would be way worst that rolling lockdowns. 

i am all for living with covid if the numbers can be kept low but from what we have seen that is not possible, there will come a point where we need to lockdown again to prevent hospitals beong overehelmed and other services being curtailed.

What I'm comparing with the flu is how we live with a virus that kills, causes massive health problems and puts the health system under immense pressure every single year without making any sort of societal or economic changes.

I don't think it's a case of keeping the numbers low, are the cases kept low for flu every winter? Not really.

It's a case of what sort of impact it will have? We are seeing signs now that the virus does not seem to be anywhere near as fatal as we may have initially thought it was.

one final time then i give up..

you are comparing the flu figures which has a vaccine, which is seasonal and which our hosiptals can nearly always cope with and everyone lived their "normal" pre covid lives.... to

we dont have a vaccine, its not seasonal and twice it has got close to overwhelming hosiptals and we have seriously changed the way we live our lifes.

to get even close to comparing the full consquences of covid and make at least a decent comparsion to the flu numbers we would need to go back to our lives pre covid and see how many die then.

However, we are not stupid and lockeddown as the level of death if we continued our normal routine would have been way higher than it was back in March/April..

can you compare the flu fatality rate with covid if there was no restrictions and we went about our lives as we did pre march?

There are 4 options that i can see

1. do nothing different...
2. herd immunity
3. live with covid (undefined but as close as i can figure you are suggesting)
4. lockdown to protect health service being overwhelm.if required.

what are the socio-economic and health implications of these?

We lockeddown as we nothing very little and experience ln other countries told us it protected the health system being overwhelmed.

3. we then tried to live with covid, but it hasnt worked despite the slow opening up and restrictions still on what we did pre covid, we imposed further restrictions and they dont appear to have worked either. You are proposing we continue with something similar to this when it hasnt worked, we are getting closer to an overwhelm healthcare system again and all the socio-economic and heath issues this would cause. you completing ignore this part, it appears only lockdown has a socio economic impact in your eyes.. which is wrong.

1. thousands would likely died
2. we cannot silo the vulnerable, we have tired during living with covid but have failed.

4. loxkdown if required - this is where we are now as living with covid didnt work imo. we didnt protect the vulnerbale, we didnt keep numbers down, we are going to overwhelm the healthcare system. As a result there will be socio econmic impacts which i havent ignored.

What have the effects of us living with Covid been?

As far as I've seen the fatality rate since we gradually reopened up was something like 0.4%. The average age of people who died is in their 80s, most with underlying health conditions so there's a lot of contention about what is really the cause of death here.

Look at what Slovakia are doing now, mass testing the entire nation in a very short space of time, grabbing the bull by the horns to see if they can deal with it. How do we know living with Covid didn't work? Are multiple lockdowns and potential of living in this state of flux long term a viable solution do you think because governments haven't shown us any other alternative yet.

before i can fully answer can u advice what level 1-5 would we be at? to get better sense i.e attendance at sports events, restrict movement between counties, opening hrs of pubs.

what happened since the last lockdown is we are gradually closing down again and numbers becoming unmanageable for the health system.. you appear to have trouble looking forward and seeing the trend or accept what the outcomes of an overwhelm health system are over the longer term.

it already clear the elderaly and vulnerable are expendable to you. no thoughts on menral health of their familes...

we know living with covid hasnt worked as we have had to further restrict, we couldnt protect nursing homes, numbers are increasing, health sytem under added pressure...

slovakia is interesting but it has its flaws.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 02:23:12 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 19, 2020, 01:30:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 10:59:29 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 19, 2020, 10:44:24 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 19, 2020, 09:51:37 AM
Going really simple on this one, the ICU bed situation is not really the result of a Covid problem, it's cut upon cut upon cut to the NHS over many years / decades. Nobody was prepared for something like this I suppose.

The simple answer is create more ICU units, is it not? But with regards to how long that would take / staff. I have no idea.

As previously pointed out, the Chinese threw a hospital up in days. It can be done, if they want to. There is still a host of Cuban doctors and nurses going around the world helping out in the hot spots, these people are there if they are truly wanted.

Sure we'll get JCB and McClaren to rattle up a few ventilators in their spare time.

The reality is there's X number of ICU beds in the here and now and it'll take years for specialist doctors and nurses to be trained up to be able to function in that environment. It normally takes one specialist ICU nurse per bed, 24 hours a day let alone the number of specialist doctors in there as well.

So, yes the NHS has been underfunded for years and in the case of the wee six badly mismanaged for decades and wee Robin isn't going to be able to solve that anytime soon so what can he do but try and mitigate the losses and body count as best he can.
Yes, the treatments seem to have improved but we're still seeing the ICU's filling up rather quickly in the last number of days and with the lag in this disease that trend will in all likelihood increase for the next week or so.

It's far from ideal, but are you prepared to sacrifice your vulnerable family members to keep the pubs open?

This sort of bullshit "to keep the pubs open".

It's not about pubs, what about elderly people who live alone who now live their last few years of their lives in fear, isolation, afraid to open the door. People whose only real social outlet might have been mass on a Sunday morning or a few pints on Fri/Sat night or a bingo night etc? What sort of quality of life is that for them? What about all the youths who should be living life carefree as every generation before them was able to at that generation? What about people who lose their jobs and livelihoods? What about other services and supports for the vulnerable in our society which have been cut and stopped as a result of Covid tunnel vision. Recovering addicts and the likes who no longer have their support systems in place, people with mental health problems who have their support systems interfered with, people with physical and mental disabilities who no longer can get the support and treatment they would in normal circumstances?

The negative impacts of lockdowns and restrictions have absolutely enormous far-reaching consequences for the whole population so at which point are we actually going to look at Covid and say the extent at which we have become consumed by trying to fight it has been counter-productive?

All those points are valid, but are you prepared to lose an elderly parent or relation in the pursuit of it?

Simple question really.

Whatever is the greater good.

It's like asking would you be prepared to lose a younger relative to suicide in pursuit of driving Covid down or lose your job and livelihood etc?

The more and more data we get on Covid does seem to downplay it and I think you can see that the general public are growingly losing their fear factor with the virus which is why it's on the rise. If people feared it would they be taking risks that allow them to catch or spread it? Why don't they fear it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 19, 2020, 02:26:59 PM
It is not remotely like asking that at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 02:29:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 19, 2020, 02:26:59 PM
It is not remotely like asking that at all.

Not true.

We are dealing in hypotheticals here, nobody know but it is clear that people are losing sight of the bigger picture when it comes to Covid.

If the fatality rate is dropping so rapidly across Europe why are we creating so many societal and economic consequences in our bid to combat Covid.

People cannot see outside of the Covid bubble.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 19, 2020, 02:31:07 PM
It is 100% true.

Can you please detail what your plan would be? No one seems to know it?

Detail please.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 19, 2020, 02:31:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 02:29:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 19, 2020, 02:26:59 PM
It is not remotely like asking that at all.

Not true.

We are dealing in hypotheticals here, nobody know but it is clear that people are losing sight of the bigger picture when it comes to Covid.

If the fatality rate is dropping so rapidly across Europe why are we creating so many societal and economic consequences in our bid to combat Covid.

People cannot see outside of the Covid bubble.

Because the successful treatment required to stop those fatalities is clogging up the hospitals.
And don't come back with usual simplistic crap that they should double hospitals overnight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 02:36:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 19, 2020, 02:31:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 02:29:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 19, 2020, 02:26:59 PM
It is not remotely like asking that at all.

Not true.

We are dealing in hypotheticals here, nobody know but it is clear that people are losing sight of the bigger picture when it comes to Covid.

If the fatality rate is dropping so rapidly across Europe why are we creating so many societal and economic consequences in our bid to combat Covid.

People cannot see outside of the Covid bubble.

Because the successful treatment required to stop those fatalities is clogging up the hospitals.
And don't come back with usual simplistic crap that they should double hospitals overnight.

More Covid tunnel vision.

Currently around 0.11% of active Covid cases are in ICU at present in the O6.

Why for once can't you look away from Covid and the detrimental impacts of every resource and decision being made to combat Covid.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 02:50:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 19, 2020, 02:31:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 02:29:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 19, 2020, 02:26:59 PM
It is not remotely like asking that at all.

Not true.

We are dealing in hypotheticals here, nobody know but it is clear that people are losing sight of the bigger picture when it comes to Covid.

If the fatality rate is dropping so rapidly across Europe why are we creating so many societal and economic consequences in our bid to combat Covid.

People cannot see outside of the Covid bubble.

Because the successful treatment required to stop those fatalities is clogging up the hospitals.
And don't come back with usual simplistic crap that they should double hospitals overnight.

Here's a nutshell about part of the problem here, it relates to the 26 but it shows there are healthcare workers there to cater for the demand.

https://www.thejournal.ie/on-call-for-ireland-workers-5170155-Aug2020/

This is a problem created by governments in underfunding/under resourcing the health service for decades. So for governments to then try and shift the blame back to the people in the face of their incompetence and mismanagement takes some neck.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 19, 2020, 02:55:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 02:36:10 PM
Currently around 0.11% of active Covid cases are in ICU at present in the O6.

There are currently 29 COVID occupied ICU beds. There are 19 spare beds.

At 0.11%, that means an additional 17,000 people can contract the virus before ICU capacity is reached.

Currently, the rate is around 1000 new cases per day. So within 3 weeks ICU capacity is exhausted. At which point mortality rate will increase.

All stats from:
https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/publications/daily-dashboard-updates-covid-19-october-2020


Just on mortality rate, current mortality rate in the north is calculated around 4%.
https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9

Not sure I believe that - 4% is very high. While it is declining on that graph, I do expect it will start to approach a more realistic asymptote as the virus disseminates across a wider cross section of the populace (which probably reflects the younger population that have acted as carriers over the past few weeks, students, parties etc).


This will be my only reply to you - as reading back through your posts you are thick as f**k or a sh!t stirrer. Possibly both. But it is crystal clear the idea of continuing on as before is not viable. Anyone with a double digit IQ will be able to grasp this.



[Also, as a general note, the current testing hit rate is around 10% (1 in ten tests are positive). Which means nothing like enough testing and contact tracing is being done.]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 03:01:07 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 19, 2020, 02:31:07 PM
It is 100% true.

Can you please detail what your plan would be? No one seems to know it?

Detail please.

It is not. How can you say something completely unknown is true.

Action has been taken too hastily, focus should be on increasing hospital capacity and living with the virus.

Some people here are remarkably blinkered here and have Covid tunnel vision. The economic and societal problems from sustained lockdowns and restrictions are going to be unprecedented for what benefit?

What about all the vulnerable people who are decimated by the lockdown and restrictions: addicts, people with disabilities, people with mental health problems, small business owners, people who have been furloughed, children, teenagers, elderly people who live alone.

This is the point that all the donkeys here cannot answer - I'll put it in bold:

At what point do we look at the bigger picture and say that the measures we are taking to fight Covid have much more far-reaching consequences than they have benefits?

Can any of the genius know-it-alls here qualify that for me?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 03:06:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 19, 2020, 02:55:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 02:36:10 PM
Currently around 0.11% of active Covid cases are in ICU at present in the O6.

There are currently 29 COVID occupied ICU beds. There are 19 spare beds.

At 0.11%, that means an additional 17,000 people can contract the virus before ICU capacity is reached.

Currently, the rate is around 1000 new cases per day. So within 3 weeks ICU capacity is exhausted. At which point mortality rate will increase.

All stats from:
https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/publications/daily-dashboard-updates-covid-19-october-2020


Just on mortality rate, current mortality rate in the north is calculated around 4%.
https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9

Not sure I believe that - 4% is very high. While it is declining on that graph, I do expect it will start to approach a more realistic asymptote as the virus disseminates across a wider cross section of the populace (which probably reflects the younger population that have acted as carriers over the past few weeks, students, parties etc).


This will be my only reply to you - as reading back through your posts you are thick as f**k or a sh!t stirrer. Possibly both. But it is crystal clear the idea of continuing on as before is not viable. Anyone with a double digit IQ will be able to grasp this.



[Also, as a general note, the current testing hit rate is around 10% (1 in ten tests are positive). Which means nothing like enough testing and contact tracing is being done.]

Another braindead donkey with Covid tunnel vision.

If you had a brain in your head you might be able to take on board the consequences of everything being consumed by Covid.

I asked a question above, numbnuts - maybe see if you peabrain can handle that one for size.

At what point do we look at the bigger picture and say that the measures we are taking to fight Covid have much more far-reaching consequences than they have benefits?

You're also making a lot of unqualified assumptions there, people in ICU don't stay there forever, they recover or they die. If cases remain steady then ICU cases will not always see a steady rise. You seem to be under the allusion people with Covid have it for life, it is generally a 2 week period for them to no longer be positive with it so your whole rationale is completely flawed.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 19, 2020, 03:22:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 03:06:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 19, 2020, 02:55:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 02:36:10 PM
Currently around 0.11% of active Covid cases are in ICU at present in the O6.

There are currently 29 COVID occupied ICU beds. There are 19 spare beds.

At 0.11%, that means an additional 17,000 people can contract the virus before ICU capacity is reached.

Currently, the rate is around 1000 new cases per day. So within 3 weeks ICU capacity is exhausted. At which point mortality rate will increase.

All stats from:
https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/publications/daily-dashboard-updates-covid-19-october-2020


Just on mortality rate, current mortality rate in the north is calculated around 4%.
https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9

Not sure I believe that - 4% is very high. While it is declining on that graph, I do expect it will start to approach a more realistic asymptote as the virus disseminates across a wider cross section of the populace (which probably reflects the younger population that have acted as carriers over the past few weeks, students, parties etc).


This will be my only reply to you - as reading back through your posts you are thick as f**k or a sh!t stirrer. Possibly both. But it is crystal clear the idea of continuing on as before is not viable. Anyone with a double digit IQ will be able to grasp this.



[Also, as a general note, the current testing hit rate is around 10% (1 in ten tests are positive). Which means nothing like enough testing and contact tracing is being done.]

Another braindead donkey with Covid tunnel vision.

If you had a brain in your head you might be able to take on board the consequences of everything being consumed by Covid.

I asked a question above, numbnuts - maybe see if you peabrain can handle that one for size.

At what point do we look at the bigger picture and say that the measures we are taking to fight Covid have much more far-reaching consequences than they have benefits?

You're also making a lot of unqualified assumptions there, people in ICU don't stay there forever, they recover or they die. If cases remain steady then ICU cases will not always see a steady rise. You seem to be under the allusion people with Covid have it for life, it is generally a 2 week period for them to no longer be positive with it so your whole rationale is completely flawed.

I said I wouldn't reply, but I will.


If you are in ICU, you are not going to have it for the standard 2 weeks you dumbfukk. Average time to death was something like 30-40 days last time I looked. Hence why I said 3 weeks and not 18 days.
edit on above: This is out of date, studies now show a dramatic drop in ICU time. Its now somewhere between 16 and 25 days.


From:
https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9

On 25th Sept, there were 5 in ICU.
On 30th Sept, there were 9 in ICU.
On 5th Oct, there were 12 in ICU.
On 10th Oct, there were 19 in ICU.
On 15th Oct, there were 24 in ICU.
As of now, there are 29 in ICU.

Even you can see what way that is going.


as regards to your:

QuoteAt what point do we look at the bigger picture and say that the measures we are taking to fight Covid have much more far-reaching consequences than they have benefits?

Are you too stupid to realise that once ICU capacity is exhausted case mortality rate will jump?

After a time of dramatically increased death rates then people will reduce social interaction out of fear anyway. So you'll have most of the economic drawbacks of restrictions - along with a high death toll of no restrictions. Restrictions and strong trading conditions are not mutually exclusive - but your little brain cannot seem to absorb that.

No one has bothered commenting as all that was probably explained about 550 pages ago.


We aren't remotely close to the point where the cure is worse than the disease. Of course, the govt needs to stop trying to solve this on the cheap as they are only dragging it out and ending up making it cost more in the long run.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 03:33:25 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 19, 2020, 03:22:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 03:06:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 19, 2020, 02:55:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 02:36:10 PM
Currently around 0.11% of active Covid cases are in ICU at present in the O6.

There are currently 29 COVID occupied ICU beds. There are 19 spare beds.

At 0.11%, that means an additional 17,000 people can contract the virus before ICU capacity is reached.

Currently, the rate is around 1000 new cases per day. So within 3 weeks ICU capacity is exhausted. At which point mortality rate will increase.

All stats from:
https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/publications/daily-dashboard-updates-covid-19-october-2020


Just on mortality rate, current mortality rate in the north is calculated around 4%.
https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9

Not sure I believe that - 4% is very high. While it is declining on that graph, I do expect it will start to approach a more realistic asymptote as the virus disseminates across a wider cross section of the populace (which probably reflects the younger population that have acted as carriers over the past few weeks, students, parties etc).


This will be my only reply to you - as reading back through your posts you are thick as f**k or a sh!t stirrer. Possibly both. But it is crystal clear the idea of continuing on as before is not viable. Anyone with a double digit IQ will be able to grasp this.



[Also, as a general note, the current testing hit rate is around 10% (1 in ten tests are positive). Which means nothing like enough testing and contact tracing is being done.]

Another braindead donkey with Covid tunnel vision.

If you had a brain in your head you might be able to take on board the consequences of everything being consumed by Covid.

I asked a question above, numbnuts - maybe see if you peabrain can handle that one for size.

At what point do we look at the bigger picture and say that the measures we are taking to fight Covid have much more far-reaching consequences than they have benefits?

You're also making a lot of unqualified assumptions there, people in ICU don't stay there forever, they recover or they die. If cases remain steady then ICU cases will not always see a steady rise. You seem to be under the allusion people with Covid have it for life, it is generally a 2 week period for them to no longer be positive with it so your whole rationale is completely flawed.

I said I wouldn't reply, but I will.


If you are in ICU, you are not going to have it for the standard 2 weeks you dumbfukk. Average time to death was something like 30-40 days last time I looked. Hence why I said 3 weeks and not 18 days.

From:
https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9

On 25th Sept, there were 5 in ICU.
On 30th Sept, there were 9 in ICU.
On 5th Oct, there were 12 in ICU.
On 10th Oct, there were 19 in ICU.
On 15th Oct, there were 24 in ICU.
As of now, there are 29 in ICU.

Even you can see what way that is going.


as regards to your:

QuoteAt what point do we look at the bigger picture and say that the measures we are taking to fight Covid have much more far-reaching consequences than they have benefits?

Are you too stupid to realise that once ICU capacity is exhausted case mortality rate will jump?

After a time of dramatically increased death rates then people will reduce social interaction out of fear anyway. So you'll have most of the economic drawbacks of restrictions - along with a high death toll of no restrictions. Restrictions and strong trading conditions are not mutually exclusive - but your little brain cannot seem to absorb that.

No one has bothered commenting as all that was probably explained about 550 pages ago.


We aren't remotely close to the point where the cure is worse than the disease. Of course, the govt needs to stop trying to solve this on the cheap as they are only dragging it out and ending up making it cost more in the long run.

Dumbfuck?

Are you talking to yourself?

The answer you've given to the question I posed is so full of horseshit. I've asked you to look at the consequences having everything consumed by Covid creates and your answer completely ignores that. The vulnerable in our society, those with mental and physical handciaps, those alone and vulnerable, recovering addicts cut off from their supports, people with mental health problems cut off from their supports, the rise in domestic violence cases, the problems that young children will inevitably have from living in this world. None of this matters in your pea sized little brain, why don't you actually address the question this time numbnuts?

Of course the number in ICU have went up, you halfwit. Cases have been rising the past month but daily new cases are now beginning to level out and you should then see active cases level out. If you had 20k new cases 2 weeks ago and you have 20k new cases this week then there should not be sufficient movement in active cases. Have you actually managed to grasp that now or do you need me to explain it to you further?

Your last line is complete and utter speculation that you can't qualify.

What was explained 550 pages ago was at a time before fatality rates had dropped in double digit multiples across Europe. Your whole premise is based on complete ignorance and you're too arrogant to stand back actually read your own nonsense.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 19, 2020, 03:41:12 PM
112,134 tests carried out in the ROI over the last 7 days thats almost 20,000 more than the previous week. Back in April when we were getting over 5,000 weekly case numbers the weekly test number was just over 40,000.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 03:43:23 PM
Be very interesting to see how the Slovaks get on with their mass testing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 19, 2020, 04:02:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 03:33:25 PM
Your last line is complete and utter speculation that you can't qualify.

As opposed to:

Quotethe consequences having everything consumed by Covid creates and your answer completely ignores that. The vulnerable in our society, those with mental and physical handciaps, those alone and vulnerable, recovering addicts cut off from their supports, people with mental health problems cut off from their supports, the rise in domestic violence cases, the problems that young children will inevitably have from living in this world

You are the one making the accusation. Back it up with some figures or STFU.

Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 03:33:25 PM
What was explained 550 pages ago was at a time before fatality rates had dropped in double digit multiples across Europe. Your whole premise is based on complete ignorance and you're too arrogant to stand back actually read your own nonsense.

Reach capacity in hospitals and where do you think fatality rates are going to go to?


Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 03:33:25 PMOf course the number in ICU have went up, you halfwit. Cases have been rising the past month but daily new cases are now beginning to level out and you should then see active cases level out. If you had 20k new cases 2 weeks ago and you have 20k new cases this week then there should not be sufficient movement in active cases. Have you actually managed to grasp that now or do you need me to explain it to you further?

30th Sept, tot number of covid cases: 12,346
18th Oct, tot number of covid cases:  28,040

2.3x increase in cases, 3.2x increase in ICU needs. The two do not directly correspond, they never do. Of course - such is beyond the simpleton.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on October 19, 2020, 04:34:18 PM
Looking like a full Level 5 for 6 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 19, 2020, 04:34:39 PM
Ireland about to go to Level 5 for 6 weeks.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1019/1172397-coronavirus-ireland/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on October 19, 2020, 04:52:09 PM
A move to Level 5 has caught all journalists by surprise when all were saying level 4 earlier. Shows a lot of second guessing was going on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bigarsedkeeper on October 19, 2020, 04:53:39 PM
Do building sites stay open during level 5?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 19, 2020, 04:56:35 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on October 19, 2020, 04:53:39 PM
Do building sites stay open during level 5?

Only if you wear your county colours.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 19, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 19, 2020, 03:41:12 PM
112,134 tests carried out in the ROI over the last 7 days thats almost 20,000 more than the previous week. Back in April when we were getting over 5,000 weekly case numbers the weekly test number was just over 40,000.

NI had 3869 tests in the last 24 hours, now maybe this is a Sunday thing but it is nowhere near enough, as the positivity rate was over 20%.
ROI isn't good but NI is even worse.

Quote from: Blowitupref on October 19, 2020, 04:52:09 PM
A move to Level 5 has caught all journalists by surprise when all were saying level 4 earlier. Shows a lot of second guessing was going on.

It will be level 4.x anyway, either 4+ or 5-. Best to get on with things.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 05:06:57 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 19, 2020, 04:02:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 03:33:25 PM
Your last line is complete and utter speculation that you can't qualify.

As opposed to:

Quotethe consequences having everything consumed by Covid creates and your answer completely ignores that. The vulnerable in our society, those with mental and physical handciaps, those alone and vulnerable, recovering addicts cut off from their supports, people with mental health problems cut off from their supports, the rise in domestic violence cases, the problems that young children will inevitably have from living in this world

You are the one making the accusation. Back it up with some figures or STFU.

Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 03:33:25 PM
What was explained 550 pages ago was at a time before fatality rates had dropped in double digit multiples across Europe. Your whole premise is based on complete ignorance and you're too arrogant to stand back actually read your own nonsense.

Reach capacity in hospitals and where do you think fatality rates are going to go to?


Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 03:33:25 PMOf course the number in ICU have went up, you halfwit. Cases have been rising the past month but daily new cases are now beginning to level out and you should then see active cases level out. If you had 20k new cases 2 weeks ago and you have 20k new cases this week then there should not be sufficient movement in active cases. Have you actually managed to grasp that now or do you need me to explain it to you further?

30th Sept, tot number of covid cases: 12,346
18th Oct, tot number of covid cases:  28,040

2.3x increase in cases, 3.2x increase in ICU needs. The two do not directly correspond, they never do. Of course - such is beyond the simpleton.

Cases have levelled off more or less in that past fortnight, we are not jumping to from 1k in daily new cases to 3k in daily new cases.

I am making the accusation, yes and you are completely ignoring the negative impacts of lockdowns, the WHO have warned governments against using lockdowns as their only measures to combat the virus and that is all governments seem to be doing. To be fair to the Slovaks they are now implementing a mass testing regime.

But here are some facts on lockdowns and restrictive measures:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/17/domestic-abuse-surged-in-lockdown-panorama-investigation-finds-coronavirus
Domestic violence cases surged.

https://insightplus.mja.com.au/2020/30/suicide-deaths-forecast-for-13-7-increase/

Forecasted 14% rise in suicides in Australia due to lockdown

The evidence of job losses, financial hardship and small business owners losing their livelihoods that doesn't need any article to support it.

https://www.priorygroup.com/media-centre/priory-expert-explains-why-the-current-lockdown-can-unlock-triggers-for-recovering-addicts-and-what-they-can-do

The impacts of lockdown and restrictions on recovering addicts

https://probonoaustralia.com.au/news/2020/08/the-covid-19-lockdown-is-breaking-families-of-people-with-disability/

The impact of lockdown on those with disabilities

But you want to give all these people impacted by lockdown the two fingers? At what cost? Can you qualify what benefits getting consumed by Covid will gain at those who are impacted by lockdown and restrictions above.

It's about the greater good and what we have seen is that fatality rates all across Europe have fallen from double digit multiples in the second wave, when are we going look at those who are detrimentally impacted by lockdown restrictions, vulnerable people who are being ignored and put in harms way as governments are consumed by a virus that more recent data shows is nowhere near as fatal as was first feared.

Can you address those points?

The fatality rates will rise but how qualifiable is it that these people are dying with Covid, if you have someone who is terminally ill with cancer and gets Covid - it's not Covid that killed them. The chances of Covid killing a fit and healthy person are extremely remote, most of people who die with are extremely elderly, with underlying health conditions, many of whom have a terminal illness or an extremely loss life expectancy. As glib as that may sound we have no fear of subjecting these people to the seasonal flu every year - why is that we suddenly care when it's Covid?

Those people with Covid tunnel vision have absolutely no interest in looking at the consequences of using lockdowns and restrictions to fight it, maybe you should look at the bigger picture for once.




Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 05:07:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 19, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 19, 2020, 03:41:12 PM
112,134 tests carried out in the ROI over the last 7 days thats almost 20,000 more than the previous week. Back in April when we were getting over 5,000 weekly case numbers the weekly test number was just over 40,000.

NI had 3869 tests in the last 24 hours, now maybe this is a Sunday thing but it is nowhere near enough, as the positivity rate was over 20%.
ROI isn't good but NI is even worse.

Quote from: Blowitupref on October 19, 2020, 04:52:09 PM
A move to Level 5 has caught all journalists by surprise when all were saying level 4 earlier. Shows a lot of second guessing was going on.

It will be level 4.x anyway, either 4+ or 5-. Best to get on with things.

The Free State's health service is a much bigger basket case than ours up here and that is saying something.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 19, 2020, 05:09:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 19, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 19, 2020, 03:41:12 PM
112,134 tests carried out in the ROI over the last 7 days thats almost 20,000 more than the previous week. Back in April when we were getting over 5,000 weekly case numbers the weekly test number was just over 40,000.

NI had 3869 tests in the last 24 hours, now maybe this is a Sunday thing but it is nowhere near enough, as the positivity rate was over 20%.
ROI isn't good but NI is even worse.

Quote from: Blowitupref on October 19, 2020, 04:52:09 PM
A move to Level 5 has caught all journalists by surprise when all were saying level 4 earlier. Shows a lot of second guessing was going on.

It will be level 4.x anyway, either 4+ or 5-. Best to get on with things.

I'm in Mid Ulster and we've a few postcodes ranking high and I know one person with it.

Something isn't right about the number of positive cases up here, I'm convinced there is an 'error' somewhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 19, 2020, 05:15:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 19, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 19, 2020, 03:41:12 PM
112,134 tests carried out in the ROI over the last 7 days thats almost 20,000 more than the previous week. Back in April when we were getting over 5,000 weekly case numbers the weekly test number was just over 40,000.

NI had 3869 tests in the last 24 hours, now maybe this is a Sunday thing but it is nowhere near enough, as the positivity rate was over 20%.
ROI isn't good but NI is even worse.

Compared to the spring the ROI are more than decent with their testing at the moment. It was clear back in March, April that loads of infected people weren't getting testing at all. NI need to start getting up to a similar testing number for All Ireland approach and track and tracing across the borders is a joke at the moment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 19, 2020, 05:47:39 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 19, 2020, 05:15:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 19, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 19, 2020, 03:41:12 PM
112,134 tests carried out in the ROI over the last 7 days thats almost 20,000 more than the previous week. Back in April when we were getting over 5,000 weekly case numbers the weekly test number was just over 40,000.

NI had 3869 tests in the last 24 hours, now maybe this is a Sunday thing but it is nowhere near enough, as the positivity rate was over 20%.
ROI isn't good but NI is even worse.

Compared to the spring the ROI are more than decent with their testing at the moment. It was clear back in March, April that loads of infected people weren't getting testing at all. NI need to start getting up to a similar testing number for All Ireland approach and track and tracing across the borders is a joke at the moment.

Even in April the ROI tested some of the people, whereas the North made no effort at all in March and April.
The clowns in Belfast will never get a proper approach together.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 06:00:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 19, 2020, 05:47:39 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 19, 2020, 05:15:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 19, 2020, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 19, 2020, 03:41:12 PM
112,134 tests carried out in the ROI over the last 7 days thats almost 20,000 more than the previous week. Back in April when we were getting over 5,000 weekly case numbers the weekly test number was just over 40,000.

NI had 3869 tests in the last 24 hours, now maybe this is a Sunday thing but it is nowhere near enough, as the positivity rate was over 20%.
ROI isn't good but NI is even worse.

Compared to the spring the ROI are more than decent with their testing at the moment. It was clear back in March, April that loads of infected people weren't getting testing at all. NI need to start getting up to a similar testing number for All Ireland approach and track and tracing across the borders is a joke at the moment.

Even in April the ROI tested some of the people, whereas the North made no effort at all in March and April.
The clowns in Belfast will never get a proper approach together.

The clowns in Belfast are only a show government with no real powers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 19, 2020, 06:17:46 PM
A new rapid Covid test has been developed by the DUP

It's only a p***k and the answer is always No
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 19, 2020, 06:40:41 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 19, 2020, 05:09:15 PM

I'm in Mid Ulster and we've a few postcodes ranking high and I know one person with it.

Something isn't right about the number of positive cases up here, I'm convinced there is an 'error' somewhere.

NI is an error.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on October 19, 2020, 07:26:46 PM
14-day cases per 100,000:

NI: 704.0
ROI: 251.0

Derry City & Strabane: 1,735.6
Belfast: 996.4
Mid-Ulster: 844.3
Cavan 807.3
Newry & Mourne: 658.2
Lisburn & Castelreagh: 558.0
Antrim & Newtonabbey: 546.7
Meath: 488.6
Fermanagh & Omagh: 454.5
Causeway & Glens: 451.0
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 07:33:18 PM
This is an interesting read.

https://twitter.com/GrahamNeary/status/1317880298554744836
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 01:37:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 12:54:33 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 12:49:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 03:49:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 03:36:19 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 02:05:10 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:50:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.

i have, i am advocating lockdown again and in the absence of something better and as of now i am.not aware of what that would be another lockdown and another as needs require.

the alternative is herd immunity and i have already provided my reason for not purposing that course inclusing socio-economic reasons.

i have also mentioned that comparing restrictions/lockdown fataility rates with potential herd immunity fatality rates is not comparing like with like. i dont know how much early detection and how much better we are at treating covid is or if the strain has weakened but i think you can agree if hospitals get overwhelm, which they will with herd immunity, they are close with the last 7 months restrictions that more people will die.

you camnot compare the flu those rates are us nearly alwyas having capacity, having a vaccine and living pre covid lives.

if we lived pre covid lives now, how soon would the hosiptals get overwhelmed  and thr fatality rate start to increase!!

Who is mentioning pre-Covid lives?

I think we should have stuck with the way we were living after coming out of the first lockdown.

The bottom line is that people don't fear the virus now, if the problem is a compliance problem then more restrictions aren't going to help when compliance is the problem.

What % of cases requite hospitalisation since we have moved into the second wave. Why have governments not catered for this sufficiently particularly when you look at some of the money being thrown about, surely the health service is the thing that requires the most investment in the immediate term.

you have being comparing against the flu so i assumed you were at least trying im some way to like with like...

what we are doing  now is seeing the grow in numbers of people with covid to the point where lockdowns are being re introduced to prevent the hospitals being overwhelmed. It would be interesting to know what peoples opinions of covid in ireland are but i dont think you can make a sweeping statement like people dont fear the virus now....

the socio-economic impact of a situation where the hospitals are overwhelmed (we need to deal with what we got, not what health system we should have) would be way worst that rolling lockdowns. 

i am all for living with covid if the numbers can be kept low but from what we have seen that is not possible, there will come a point where we need to lockdown again to prevent hospitals beong overehelmed and other services being curtailed.

What I'm comparing with the flu is how we live with a virus that kills, causes massive health problems and puts the health system under immense pressure every single year without making any sort of societal or economic changes.

I don't think it's a case of keeping the numbers low, are the cases kept low for flu every winter? Not really.

It's a case of what sort of impact it will have? We are seeing signs now that the virus does not seem to be anywhere near as fatal as we may have initially thought it was.

one final time then i give up..

you are comparing the flu figures which has a vaccine, which is seasonal and which our hosiptals can nearly always cope with and everyone lived their "normal" pre covid lives.... to

we dont have a vaccine, its not seasonal and twice it has got close to overwhelming hosiptals and we have seriously changed the way we live our lifes.

to get even close to comparing the full consquences of covid and make at least a decent comparsion to the flu numbers we would need to go back to our lives pre covid and see how many die then.

However, we are not stupid and lockeddown as the level of death if we continued our normal routine would have been way higher than it was back in March/April..

can you compare the flu fatality rate with covid if there was no restrictions and we went about our lives as we did pre march?

There are 4 options that i can see

1. do nothing different...
2. herd immunity
3. live with covid (undefined but as close as i can figure you are suggesting)
4. lockdown to protect health service being overwhelm.if required.

what are the socio-economic and health implications of these?

We lockeddown as we nothing very little and experience ln other countries told us it protected the health system being overwhelmed.

3. we then tried to live with covid, but it hasnt worked despite the slow opening up and restrictions still on what we did pre covid, we imposed further restrictions and they dont appear to have worked either. You are proposing we continue with something similar to this when it hasnt worked, we are getting closer to an overwhelm healthcare system again and all the socio-economic and heath issues this would cause. you completing ignore this part, it appears only lockdown has a socio economic impact in your eyes.. which is wrong.

1. thousands would likely died
2. we cannot silo the vulnerable, we have tired during living with covid but have failed.

4. loxkdown if required - this is where we are now as living with covid didnt work imo. we didnt protect the vulnerbale, we didnt keep numbers down, we are going to overwhelm the healthcare system. As a result there will be socio econmic impacts which i havent ignored.

What have the effects of us living with Covid been?

As far as I've seen the fatality rate since we gradually reopened up was something like 0.4%. The average age of people who died is in their 80s, most with underlying health conditions so there's a lot of contention about what is really the cause of death here.

Look at what Slovakia are doing now, mass testing the entire nation in a very short space of time, grabbing the bull by the horns to see if they can deal with it. How do we know living with Covid didn't work? Are multiple lockdowns and potential of living in this state of flux long term a viable solution do you think because governments haven't shown us any other alternative yet.

before i can fully answer can u advice what level 1-5 would we be at? to get better sense i.e attendance at sports events, restrict movement between counties, opening hrs of pubs.

what happened since the last lockdown is we are gradually closing down again and numbers becoming unmanageable for the health system.. you appear to have trouble looking forward and seeing the trend or accept what the outcomes of an overwhelm health system are over the longer term.

it already clear the elderaly and vulnerable are expendable to you. no thoughts on menral health of their familes...

we know living with covid hasnt worked as we have had to further restrict, we couldnt protect nursing homes, numbers are increasing, health sytem under added pressure...

slovakia is interesting but it has its flaws.

you might have missed this with your spats with others.

you stilll have not provided detail on how you proposed to live with covid firstly, and secondly protect the health service from being overwhelmed causing all the issues  you keep claiming covid tunnel vision are denying. 

What evidence do you have that long term your approach(still undefined) will help all those you claim lockdown will hurt better than rolling lockdowns. do you not expect a socio-economic impact.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 07:40:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 07:33:18 PM
This is an interesting read.

https://twitter.com/GrahamNeary/status/1317880298554744836

talk about tunnel vision.. you appear to have only a problem with experts when it doesnt suit your narrative. stockbokers opinion is an interesting read..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 07:43:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 01:37:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 12:54:33 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 12:49:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 03:49:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 03:36:19 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 02:05:10 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:50:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.

i have, i am advocating lockdown again and in the absence of something better and as of now i am.not aware of what that would be another lockdown and another as needs require.

the alternative is herd immunity and i have already provided my reason for not purposing that course inclusing socio-economic reasons.

i have also mentioned that comparing restrictions/lockdown fataility rates with potential herd immunity fatality rates is not comparing like with like. i dont know how much early detection and how much better we are at treating covid is or if the strain has weakened but i think you can agree if hospitals get overwhelm, which they will with herd immunity, they are close with the last 7 months restrictions that more people will die.

you camnot compare the flu those rates are us nearly alwyas having capacity, having a vaccine and living pre covid lives.

if we lived pre covid lives now, how soon would the hosiptals get overwhelmed  and thr fatality rate start to increase!!

Who is mentioning pre-Covid lives?

I think we should have stuck with the way we were living after coming out of the first lockdown.

The bottom line is that people don't fear the virus now, if the problem is a compliance problem then more restrictions aren't going to help when compliance is the problem.

What % of cases requite hospitalisation since we have moved into the second wave. Why have governments not catered for this sufficiently particularly when you look at some of the money being thrown about, surely the health service is the thing that requires the most investment in the immediate term.

you have being comparing against the flu so i assumed you were at least trying im some way to like with like...

what we are doing  now is seeing the grow in numbers of people with covid to the point where lockdowns are being re introduced to prevent the hospitals being overwhelmed. It would be interesting to know what peoples opinions of covid in ireland are but i dont think you can make a sweeping statement like people dont fear the virus now....

the socio-economic impact of a situation where the hospitals are overwhelmed (we need to deal with what we got, not what health system we should have) would be way worst that rolling lockdowns. 

i am all for living with covid if the numbers can be kept low but from what we have seen that is not possible, there will come a point where we need to lockdown again to prevent hospitals beong overehelmed and other services being curtailed.

What I'm comparing with the flu is how we live with a virus that kills, causes massive health problems and puts the health system under immense pressure every single year without making any sort of societal or economic changes.

I don't think it's a case of keeping the numbers low, are the cases kept low for flu every winter? Not really.

It's a case of what sort of impact it will have? We are seeing signs now that the virus does not seem to be anywhere near as fatal as we may have initially thought it was.

one final time then i give up..

you are comparing the flu figures which has a vaccine, which is seasonal and which our hosiptals can nearly always cope with and everyone lived their "normal" pre covid lives.... to

we dont have a vaccine, its not seasonal and twice it has got close to overwhelming hosiptals and we have seriously changed the way we live our lifes.

to get even close to comparing the full consquences of covid and make at least a decent comparsion to the flu numbers we would need to go back to our lives pre covid and see how many die then.

However, we are not stupid and lockeddown as the level of death if we continued our normal routine would have been way higher than it was back in March/April..

can you compare the flu fatality rate with covid if there was no restrictions and we went about our lives as we did pre march?

There are 4 options that i can see

1. do nothing different...
2. herd immunity
3. live with covid (undefined but as close as i can figure you are suggesting)
4. lockdown to protect health service being overwhelm.if required.

what are the socio-economic and health implications of these?

We lockeddown as we nothing very little and experience ln other countries told us it protected the health system being overwhelmed.

3. we then tried to live with covid, but it hasnt worked despite the slow opening up and restrictions still on what we did pre covid, we imposed further restrictions and they dont appear to have worked either. You are proposing we continue with something similar to this when it hasnt worked, we are getting closer to an overwhelm healthcare system again and all the socio-economic and heath issues this would cause. you completing ignore this part, it appears only lockdown has a socio economic impact in your eyes.. which is wrong.

1. thousands would likely died
2. we cannot silo the vulnerable, we have tired during living with covid but have failed.

4. loxkdown if required - this is where we are now as living with covid didnt work imo. we didnt protect the vulnerbale, we didnt keep numbers down, we are going to overwhelm the healthcare system. As a result there will be socio econmic impacts which i havent ignored.

What have the effects of us living with Covid been?

As far as I've seen the fatality rate since we gradually reopened up was something like 0.4%. The average age of people who died is in their 80s, most with underlying health conditions so there's a lot of contention about what is really the cause of death here.

Look at what Slovakia are doing now, mass testing the entire nation in a very short space of time, grabbing the bull by the horns to see if they can deal with it. How do we know living with Covid didn't work? Are multiple lockdowns and potential of living in this state of flux long term a viable solution do you think because governments haven't shown us any other alternative yet.

before i can fully answer can u advice what level 1-5 would we be at? to get better sense i.e attendance at sports events, restrict movement between counties, opening hrs of pubs.

what happened since the last lockdown is we are gradually closing down again and numbers becoming unmanageable for the health system.. you appear to have trouble looking forward and seeing the trend or accept what the outcomes of an overwhelm health system are over the longer term.

it already clear the elderaly and vulnerable are expendable to you. no thoughts on menral health of their familes...

we know living with covid hasnt worked as we have had to further restrict, we couldnt protect nursing homes, numbers are increasing, health sytem under added pressure...

slovakia is interesting but it has its flaws.

you might have missed this with your spats with others.

you stilll have not provided detail on how you proposed to live with covid firstly, and secondly protect the health service from being overwhelmed causing all the issues  you keep claiming covid tunnel vision are denying. 

What evidence do you have that long term your approach(still undefined) will help all those you claim lockdown will hurt better than rolling lockdowns. do you not expect a socio-economic impact.

I have, multiple times - as we were before we came out of the first lockdown and went into the second lockdown.

Hospitals get overwhelmed by seasonal flus. Down south in particular, the basketcase health service down there regularly has 7/800 waiting on hospital trolleys during the flu season.

I have the same evidence that those who advocate for lockdown to quell Covid do. It's my opinion, we will find out in time.

There are plenty of data on domestic violence and the rise in it during lockdown, we know of the economic damage it has done, there are plenty of testimonies from people who have family members with mental of physical disabilities and how lockdown and restrictions have cut off support and made caring for these people more difficult not to mention the effect it has on these people. There are reports on the impact it can have on people's mental health etc so it's insane to ignore these factors.

At the minute we have 0.11% of active cases in ICU up north, it's something similar down south. At what point and I'm asking you this do we say that we need to stop focusing on Covid and start focusing on the repercussions of the decisions we are making to deal with Covid and the consequences of this?

Maybe you'll do me the courtesy of addressing that question?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 07:46:42 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 07:40:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 07:33:18 PM
This is an interesting read.

https://twitter.com/GrahamNeary/status/1317880298554744836

talk about tunnel vision.. you appear to have only a problem with experts when it doesnt suit your narrative. stockbokers opinion is an interesting read..

All I've said is that there are some interesting observations from the data presented. That is raw data on death rates in the 26. It's an interesting observation that excess rates have not really seen a great rise and that death rates in April were similar to flu seasons in January in prior years.

Would you have been surprised to read that? By all means dispute the figures if you can but they do seem to paint a rather hysteric reaction to Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 08:00:13 PM
Aye but who's best Federer or Nadal? I think Federer as he's had a better spread against better players
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 08:03:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 08:00:13 PM
Aye but who's best Federer or Nadal? I think Federer as he's had a better spread against better players

Better players?

Federer only did it against chumps in the post-Sampras pre-Nadal/Djokovic era.

It's a non-contest. Rafa hands down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 08:05:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 07:43:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 01:37:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 12:54:33 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 12:49:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 03:49:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 03:36:19 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 02:05:10 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:50:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.

i have, i am advocating lockdown again and in the absence of something better and as of now i am.not aware of what that would be another lockdown and another as needs require.

the alternative is herd immunity and i have already provided my reason for not purposing that course inclusing socio-economic reasons.

i have also mentioned that comparing restrictions/lockdown fataility rates with potential herd immunity fatality rates is not comparing like with like. i dont know how much early detection and how much better we are at treating covid is or if the strain has weakened but i think you can agree if hospitals get overwhelm, which they will with herd immunity, they are close with the last 7 months restrictions that more people will die.

you camnot compare the flu those rates are us nearly alwyas having capacity, having a vaccine and living pre covid lives.

if we lived pre covid lives now, how soon would the hosiptals get overwhelmed  and thr fatality rate start to increase!!

Who is mentioning pre-Covid lives?

I think we should have stuck with the way we were living after coming out of the first lockdown.

The bottom line is that people don't fear the virus now, if the problem is a compliance problem then more restrictions aren't going to help when compliance is the problem.

What % of cases requite hospitalisation since we have moved into the second wave. Why have governments not catered for this sufficiently particularly when you look at some of the money being thrown about, surely the health service is the thing that requires the most investment in the immediate term.

you have being comparing against the flu so i assumed you were at least trying im some way to like with like...

what we are doing  now is seeing the grow in numbers of people with covid to the point where lockdowns are being re introduced to prevent the hospitals being overwhelmed. It would be interesting to know what peoples opinions of covid in ireland are but i dont think you can make a sweeping statement like people dont fear the virus now....

the socio-economic impact of a situation where the hospitals are overwhelmed (we need to deal with what we got, not what health system we should have) would be way worst that rolling lockdowns. 

i am all for living with covid if the numbers can be kept low but from what we have seen that is not possible, there will come a point where we need to lockdown again to prevent hospitals beong overehelmed and other services being curtailed.

What I'm comparing with the flu is how we live with a virus that kills, causes massive health problems and puts the health system under immense pressure every single year without making any sort of societal or economic changes.

I don't think it's a case of keeping the numbers low, are the cases kept low for flu every winter? Not really.

It's a case of what sort of impact it will have? We are seeing signs now that the virus does not seem to be anywhere near as fatal as we may have initially thought it was.

one final time then i give up..

you are comparing the flu figures which has a vaccine, which is seasonal and which our hosiptals can nearly always cope with and everyone lived their "normal" pre covid lives.... to

we dont have a vaccine, its not seasonal and twice it has got close to overwhelming hosiptals and we have seriously changed the way we live our lifes.

to get even close to comparing the full consquences of covid and make at least a decent comparsion to the flu numbers we would need to go back to our lives pre covid and see how many die then.

However, we are not stupid and lockeddown as the level of death if we continued our normal routine would have been way higher than it was back in March/April..

can you compare the flu fatality rate with covid if there was no restrictions and we went about our lives as we did pre march?

There are 4 options that i can see

1. do nothing different...
2. herd immunity
3. live with covid (undefined but as close as i can figure you are suggesting)
4. lockdown to protect health service being overwhelm.if required.

what are the socio-economic and health implications of these?

We lockeddown as we nothing very little and experience ln other countries told us it protected the health system being overwhelmed.

3. we then tried to live with covid, but it hasnt worked despite the slow opening up and restrictions still on what we did pre covid, we imposed further restrictions and they dont appear to have worked either. You are proposing we continue with something similar to this when it hasnt worked, we are getting closer to an overwhelm healthcare system again and all the socio-economic and heath issues this would cause. you completing ignore this part, it appears only lockdown has a socio economic impact in your eyes.. which is wrong.

1. thousands would likely died
2. we cannot silo the vulnerable, we have tired during living with covid but have failed.

4. loxkdown if required - this is where we are now as living with covid didnt work imo. we didnt protect the vulnerbale, we didnt keep numbers down, we are going to overwhelm the healthcare system. As a result there will be socio econmic impacts which i havent ignored.

What have the effects of us living with Covid been?

As far as I've seen the fatality rate since we gradually reopened up was something like 0.4%. The average age of people who died is in their 80s, most with underlying health conditions so there's a lot of contention about what is really the cause of death here.

Look at what Slovakia are doing now, mass testing the entire nation in a very short space of time, grabbing the bull by the horns to see if they can deal with it. How do we know living with Covid didn't work? Are multiple lockdowns and potential of living in this state of flux long term a viable solution do you think because governments haven't shown us any other alternative yet.

before i can fully answer can u advice what level 1-5 would we be at? to get better sense i.e attendance at sports events, restrict movement between counties, opening hrs of pubs.

what happened since the last lockdown is we are gradually closing down again and numbers becoming unmanageable for the health system.. you appear to have trouble looking forward and seeing the trend or accept what the outcomes of an overwhelm health system are over the longer term.

it already clear the elderaly and vulnerable are expendable to you. no thoughts on menral health of their familes...

we know living with covid hasnt worked as we have had to further restrict, we couldnt protect nursing homes, numbers are increasing, health sytem under added pressure...

slovakia is interesting but it has its flaws.

you might have missed this with your spats with others.

you stilll have not provided detail on how you proposed to live with covid firstly, and secondly protect the health service from being overwhelmed causing all the issues  you keep claiming covid tunnel vision are denying. 

What evidence do you have that long term your approach(still undefined) will help all those you claim lockdown will hurt better than rolling lockdowns. do you not expect a socio-economic impact.

I have, multiple times - as we were before we came out of the first lockdown and went into the second lockdown.

Hospitals get overwhelmed by seasonal flus. Down south in particular, the basketcase health service down there regularly has 7/800 waiting on hospital trolleys during the flu season.

I have the same evidence that those who advocate for lockdown to quell Covid do. It's my opinion, we will find out in time.

There are plenty of data on domestic violence and the rise in it during lockdown, we know of the economic damage it has done, there are plenty of testimonies from people who have family members with mental of physical disabilities and how lockdown and restrictions have cut off support and made caring for these people more difficult not to mention the effect it has on these people. There are reports on the impact it can have on people's mental health etc so it's insane to ignore these factors.

At the minute we have 0.11% of active cases in ICU up north, it's something similar down south. At what point and I'm asking you this do we say that we need to stop focusing on Covid and start focusing on the repercussions of the decisions we are making to deal with Covid and the consequences of this?

Maybe you'll do me the courtesy of addressing that question?

as we were before we came out of the first lockdown is lockdown!!!!!

also between lockdown 1 and now there has been varying  degrees of restricts. what are you proposing????

i have never denied the implications of lockdown i still havent seen you show how your unclear approach effects them.

you are very selective with experts you accept and experts you dont.

.i dont know how many more times i can answer your question. we stop focusing on covid when the impact of covid stops the health system being overwhelmed cauaing untold damage to all those you are concerned about and those you are not like the elderly and vulnerable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on October 19, 2020, 08:09:43 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 08:05:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 07:43:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 07:35:46 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 01:37:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 12:54:33 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 12:49:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 03:49:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 03:36:19 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 02:05:10 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:50:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 01:38:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 18, 2020, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 18, 2020, 12:51:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 17, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Life can be very long, short is 38, the age a very good club mate of mine that died recently. Angelo, you are full of shit and a reincarnation of the WUM's we've had on here for years

The narrative of what you said is that its ok for people who are young, fit and healthy to die providing its not from Covid?

There are huge negative consequences of lockdowns and restrictions, we saw rises in cases of domestic violence during the first lockdown, mental health issues are almost certain to become a bigger issue with it, the economic issues it brings, the threat to people's livelihoods, jobs, ability to provide for their families, the social isolation people who live alone or elderly people feel.

At what point do we focus on the above? At what point do we look at the latest data and trends being reported on covid, a plumetting fatality, rate, the underlying health conditions the vast majority of people who die from it have, the median and mean age of those who die and what their life expectancy would be.

Some of you are so entrenched into your thinking that you are completely unwilling to look at the big picture?

I could be petty like you and say that you guys are happy to see domestic violence and suicide rise because of what you are are advocating.

you have provided no alternative that does not lead to the same or similar issues, all you provided was the unrealistic hope that people adhere to the guidance which it is clear they have not and therefore will not do.

you keep repeating the same questions over and over again without saying how any alternative you are suggesting would address them.

no one is saying there are no socio-economic challenges with lockdowns, i dont think anyone wants a lockdown but in the absence of a credible alternative which you havent provided most people see it as neccessary.

how we stop the same thing happening after these restrictions/lockdown is what needs to be dentified. I dont k ow what they are though. i hope a gradual opening of the socio-economic enviroment and adherance to guidance would work but it clearly hasnt.

Neither have you.

The same negative economic and societal issues will return now during lockdown and will probably return a worse effect.

It's a trade off, the fatality of the virus has plummeted at double digit multiples. It is my view that the impacts of lockdown and excessive restrictions will have more negative consequences than what we had in place prior to this second wave on society as a whole.

There's a reason why a large group of people aren't complying now, they don't fear the virus. The first wave had resonance because we saw the images from Lombardy and Madrid, people had a genuine fear that this could shoot fit and healthy people down. The data tends to point at this risk being remote, probably as remote as the flu which we live with every single winter.

i have, i am advocating lockdown again and in the absence of something better and as of now i am.not aware of what that would be another lockdown and another as needs require.

the alternative is herd immunity and i have already provided my reason for not purposing that course inclusing socio-economic reasons.

i have also mentioned that comparing restrictions/lockdown fataility rates with potential herd immunity fatality rates is not comparing like with like. i dont know how much early detection and how much better we are at treating covid is or if the strain has weakened but i think you can agree if hospitals get overwhelm, which they will with herd immunity, they are close with the last 7 months restrictions that more people will die.

you camnot compare the flu those rates are us nearly alwyas having capacity, having a vaccine and living pre covid lives.

if we lived pre covid lives now, how soon would the hosiptals get overwhelmed  and thr fatality rate start to increase!!

Who is mentioning pre-Covid lives?

I think we should have stuck with the way we were living after coming out of the first lockdown.

The bottom line is that people don't fear the virus now, if the problem is a compliance problem then more restrictions aren't going to help when compliance is the problem.

What % of cases requite hospitalisation since we have moved into the second wave. Why have governments not catered for this sufficiently particularly when you look at some of the money being thrown about, surely the health service is the thing that requires the most investment in the immediate term.

you have being comparing against the flu so i assumed you were at least trying im some way to like with like...

what we are doing  now is seeing the grow in numbers of people with covid to the point where lockdowns are being re introduced to prevent the hospitals being overwhelmed. It would be interesting to know what peoples opinions of covid in ireland are but i dont think you can make a sweeping statement like people dont fear the virus now....

the socio-economic impact of a situation where the hospitals are overwhelmed (we need to deal with what we got, not what health system we should have) would be way worst that rolling lockdowns. 

i am all for living with covid if the numbers can be kept low but from what we have seen that is not possible, there will come a point where we need to lockdown again to prevent hospitals beong overehelmed and other services being curtailed.

What I'm comparing with the flu is how we live with a virus that kills, causes massive health problems and puts the health system under immense pressure every single year without making any sort of societal or economic changes.

I don't think it's a case of keeping the numbers low, are the cases kept low for flu every winter? Not really.

It's a case of what sort of impact it will have? We are seeing signs now that the virus does not seem to be anywhere near as fatal as we may have initially thought it was.

one final time then i give up..

you are comparing the flu figures which has a vaccine, which is seasonal and which our hosiptals can nearly always cope with and everyone lived their "normal" pre covid lives.... to

we dont have a vaccine, its not seasonal and twice it has got close to overwhelming hosiptals and we have seriously changed the way we live our lifes.

to get even close to comparing the full consquences of covid and make at least a decent comparsion to the flu numbers we would need to go back to our lives pre covid and see how many die then.

However, we are not stupid and lockeddown as the level of death if we continued our normal routine would have been way higher than it was back in March/April..

can you compare the flu fatality rate with covid if there was no restrictions and we went about our lives as we did pre march?

There are 4 options that i can see

1. do nothing different...
2. herd immunity
3. live with covid (undefined but as close as i can figure you are suggesting)
4. lockdown to protect health service being overwhelm.if required.

what are the socio-economic and health implications of these?

We lockeddown as we nothing very little and experience ln other countries told us it protected the health system being overwhelmed.

3. we then tried to live with covid, but it hasnt worked despite the slow opening up and restrictions still on what we did pre covid, we imposed further restrictions and they dont appear to have worked either. You are proposing we continue with something similar to this when it hasnt worked, we are getting closer to an overwhelm healthcare system again and all the socio-economic and heath issues this would cause. you completing ignore this part, it appears only lockdown has a socio economic impact in your eyes.. which is wrong.

1. thousands would likely died
2. we cannot silo the vulnerable, we have tired during living with covid but have failed.

4. loxkdown if required - this is where we are now as living with covid didnt work imo. we didnt protect the vulnerbale, we didnt keep numbers down, we are going to overwhelm the healthcare system. As a result there will be socio econmic impacts which i havent ignored.

What have the effects of us living with Covid been?

As far as I've seen the fatality rate since we gradually reopened up was something like 0.4%. The average age of people who died is in their 80s, most with underlying health conditions so there's a lot of contention about what is really the cause of death here.

Look at what Slovakia are doing now, mass testing the entire nation in a very short space of time, grabbing the bull by the horns to see if they can deal with it. How do we know living with Covid didn't work? Are multiple lockdowns and potential of living in this state of flux long term a viable solution do you think because governments haven't shown us any other alternative yet.

before i can fully answer can u advice what level 1-5 would we be at? to get better sense i.e attendance at sports events, restrict movement between counties, opening hrs of pubs.

what happened since the last lockdown is we are gradually closing down again and numbers becoming unmanageable for the health system.. you appear to have trouble looking forward and seeing the trend or accept what the outcomes of an overwhelm health system are over the longer term.

it already clear the elderaly and vulnerable are expendable to you. no thoughts on menral health of their familes...

we know living with covid hasnt worked as we have had to further restrict, we couldnt protect nursing homes, numbers are increasing, health sytem under added pressure...

slovakia is interesting but it has its flaws.

you might have missed this with your spats with others.

you stilll have not provided detail on how you proposed to live with covid firstly, and secondly protect the health service from being overwhelmed causing all the issues  you keep claiming covid tunnel vision are denying. 

What evidence do you have that long term your approach(still undefined) will help all those you claim lockdown will hurt better than rolling lockdowns. do you not expect a socio-economic impact.

I have, multiple times - as we were before we came out of the first lockdown and went into the second lockdown.

Hospitals get overwhelmed by seasonal flus. Down south in particular, the basketcase health service down there regularly has 7/800 waiting on hospital trolleys during the flu season.

I have the same evidence that those who advocate for lockdown to quell Covid do. It's my opinion, we will find out in time.

There are plenty of data on domestic violence and the rise in it during lockdown, we know of the economic damage it has done, there are plenty of testimonies from people who have family members with mental of physical disabilities and how lockdown and restrictions have cut off support and made caring for these people more difficult not to mention the effect it has on these people. There are reports on the impact it can have on people's mental health etc so it's insane to ignore these factors.

At the minute we have 0.11% of active cases in ICU up north, it's something similar down south. At what point and I'm asking you this do we say that we need to stop focusing on Covid and start focusing on the repercussions of the decisions we are making to deal with Covid and the consequences of this?

Maybe you'll do me the courtesy of addressing that question?

as we were before we came out of the first lockdown is lockdown!!!!!

also between lockdown 1 and now there has been varying  degrees of restricts. what are you proposing????

i have never denied the implications of lockdown i still havent seen you show how your unclear approach effects them.

you are very selective with experts you accept and experts you dont.

.i dont know how many more times i can answer your question. we stop focusing on covid when the impact of covid stops the health system being overwhelmed cauaing untold damage to all those you are concerned about and those you are not like the elderly and vulnerable.

That's a lot of quoting lads.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 08:12:55 PM
it is, still havent got a straight answer either.. :'(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 19, 2020, 08:28:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 05:06:57 PM
Those people with Covid tunnel vision have absolutely no interest in looking at the consequences of using lockdowns and restrictions to fight it, maybe you should look at the bigger picture for once.

Current case fatality rate here is 4% (time weighted for day of contraction).

I was going to say that is overly pessimistic and take 1% instead. But, if we followed your course (which you don't outline, but the assumption must be that it is light touch), then the health services would collapse and you would see 4% as a minimum death rate over the long term

Then with your world of minimal restrictions, how many get the virus? Half the population before herd immunity effects kick in? (Half being optimistic, usual thought train is around 70% of populace needs to be immune.)

So, half the population of the north is 1.8 million. Half of that is 900k. 4% of that is 36k people.

In 2018, 15,922 people died in the north. You are advocating doubling the annual death rate in response to worries over intangible forecasts elsewhere.


Big picture? You don't have a f**king clue. Not surprising the man that cannot grasp the difference between fractions and percentages cannot play with big numbers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 08:40:45 PM
Getting the popcorn ready for the next response
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on October 19, 2020, 08:43:31 PM
I don't believe level 5 or level 6 or level 47 will make a blind bit of difference at this stage. There is no enforcement of level 2 or level 3. What happens after 6 weeks with no improvement?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 08:54:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 19, 2020, 08:43:31 PM
I don't believe level 5 or level 6 or level 47 will make a blind bit of difference at this stage. There is no enforcement of level 2 or level 3. What happens after 6 weeks with no improvement?

now thats a topic worthy of discussion. what is possible after lockdown to help keep covid under control if anything. Doing the same is very very unlikely to work and maybe expecting social behaviour to change enough is also unlikely... anyone any ideas?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 08:57:16 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 08:54:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 19, 2020, 08:43:31 PM
I don't believe level 5 or level 6 or level 47 will make a blind bit of difference at this stage. There is no enforcement of level 2 or level 3. What happens after 6 weeks with no improvement?

now thats a topic worthy of discussion. what is possible after lockdown to help keep covid under control if anything. Doing the same is very very unlikely to work and maybe expecting social behaviour to change enough is also unlikely... anyone any ideas?

Enforce the rules?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 19, 2020, 09:01:49 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 08:54:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 19, 2020, 08:43:31 PM
I don't believe level 5 or level 6 or level 47 will make a blind bit of difference at this stage. There is no enforcement of level 2 or level 3. What happens after 6 weeks with no improvement?

now thats a topic worthy of discussion. what is possible after lockdown to help keep covid under control if anything. Doing the same is very very unlikely to work and maybe expecting social behaviour to change enough is also unlikely... anyone any ideas?

The Wuhan strategy.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/19/chinas-coronavirus-lockdown-strategy-brutal-but-effective
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on October 19, 2020, 09:07:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 08:57:16 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 08:54:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 19, 2020, 08:43:31 PM
I don't believe level 5 or level 6 or level 47 will make a blind bit of difference at this stage. There is no enforcement of level 2 or level 3. What happens after 6 weeks with no improvement?

now thats a topic worthy of discussion. what is possible after lockdown to help keep covid under control if anything. Doing the same is very very unlikely to work and maybe expecting social behaviour to change enough is also unlikely... anyone any ideas?

Enforce the rules?

It seems we are not capable of that. Saturday after Saturday gangs of fuckwits protest in dublin in full view of gardai who do nothing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 09:10:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 08:57:16 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 19, 2020, 08:54:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 19, 2020, 08:43:31 PM
I don't believe level 5 or level 6 or level 47 will make a blind bit of difference at this stage. There is no enforcement of level 2 or level 3. What happens after 6 weeks with no improvement?

now thats a topic worthy of discussion. what is possible after lockdown to help keep covid under control if anything. Doing the same is very very unlikely to work and maybe expecting social behaviour to change enough is also unlikely... anyone any ideas?

Enforce the rules?

not sure we are capable as a society of following the rules and not possible to enforce but we could do better  but not sure we would not be back in the same place agianst though.

logistically i dont think we could do a wuhan
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 19, 2020, 09:13:17 PM
It's not specifically individuals though. Why did governments think putting students back into halls of residence was a good idea? That should not have been allowed.

Factories also spreading quite a bit. What is being done to ensure this doesn't happen?

Schools are now said to have had 1500 cases. How many must that have equated to?

I think a number of things have just been done wrong from the top down to the bottom.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 09:20:31 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 19, 2020, 09:13:17 PM
It's not specifically individuals though. Why did governments think putting students back into halls of residence was a good idea? That should not have been allowed.

Factories also spreading quite a bit. What is being done to ensure this doesn't happen?

Schools are now said to have had 1500 cases. How many must that have equated to?

I think a number of things have just been done wrong from the top down to the bottom.

Schools? Surely not, Smurphy phd said different
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on October 19, 2020, 09:25:31 PM
Schools should be closed as long as teachers go home and live of the covid 300 euro per week payment. I think that's fair.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 09:30:00 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 19, 2020, 09:25:31 PM
Schools should be closed as long as teachers go home and live of the covid 300 euro per week payment. I think that's fair.

So no online teaching then? They'd be happy with that I'd say
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on October 19, 2020, 09:34:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 09:30:00 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 19, 2020, 09:25:31 PM
Schools should be closed as long as teachers go home and live of the covid 300 euro per week payment. I think that's fair.

So no online teaching then? They'd be happy with that I'd say

They'd never be happy. Half them didn't do it anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 09:40:24 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 19, 2020, 09:34:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 09:30:00 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 19, 2020, 09:25:31 PM
Schools should be closed as long as teachers go home and live of the covid 300 euro per week payment. I think that's fair.

So no online teaching then? They'd be happy with that I'd say

They'd never be happy. Half them didn't do it anyway.

Half? Link?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on October 19, 2020, 09:43:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 09:40:24 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 19, 2020, 09:34:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 09:30:00 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 19, 2020, 09:25:31 PM
Schools should be closed as long as teachers go home and live of the covid 300 euro per week payment. I think that's fair.

So no online teaching then? They'd be happy with that I'd say

They'd never be happy. Half them didn't do it anyway.

Half? Link?

Yeh  sure, show me the link where teachers will be happy first though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 09:49:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 19, 2020, 09:43:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 09:40:24 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 19, 2020, 09:34:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 09:30:00 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 19, 2020, 09:25:31 PM
Schools should be closed as long as teachers go home and live of the covid 300 euro per week payment. I think that's fair.

So no online teaching then? They'd be happy with that I'd say

They'd never be happy. Half them didn't do it anyway.

Half? Link?

Yeh  sure, show me the link where teachers will be happy first though.

Just asked her in doors, no probs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 19, 2020, 09:55:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 07:46:42 PM
All I've said is that there are some interesting observations from the data presented. That is raw data on death rates in the 26. It's an interesting observation that excess rates have not really seen a great rise and that death rates in April were similar to flu seasons in January in prior years.

As you never tire of reminding us, we do not lockdown for flu. Yet deaths from Covid in April in the middle of a lockdown were greater than the worst January without a lockdown. This reflects that Covid was much worse and the reaction was appropriate. January is sometimes a bad month, but the traditional winter season is only about 6 weeks, without the lockdown not only would Covid have killed more in April, but also in May, in June, in July, in August, in September and in October. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 19, 2020, 10:04:23 PM
https://www.channel4.com/news/inequality-and-structural-racism-increased-covid-death-risk-among-ethnic-minorities-report-says (https://www.channel4.com/news/inequality-and-structural-racism-increased-covid-death-risk-among-ethnic-minorities-report-says)

This kind of thing also major factor.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ballinaman on October 19, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
So Micheál Martin confirmed its the suppress and release strategy until "a safe vaccine is found".

Ouch...that's a serous roll of the dice .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2020, 10:23:55 PM
Is there a link to what's closed and what's allows to be open in the south?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: pbat on October 19, 2020, 10:34:17 PM
https://www.gov.ie/en/campaigns/c36c85-covid-19-coronavirus/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 19, 2020, 11:54:26 PM
It's a bit mad that the DUP would rather see thousands of people die than restrict movement temporarily between the wee six and Britain

Completely owns the taigs though, so it's all worth it in the end I guess
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on October 19, 2020, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 19, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
So Micheál Martin confirmed its the suppress and release strategy until "a safe vaccine is found".

Ouch...that's a serous roll of the dice .
3 weeks in lockdown then 3 weeks off then back in for an arbitrary amount of time is the worst scenario for anyone trying to run a business in the hospitality sector as no one knows whether they are coming or going so no one can confidently book a table or a room anywhere 3 weeks in advance. The business may or may not still be opened and the people who own or work in the business may or may not be entitled to some payment but they have no customers either way. Even when businesses where opened for a few weeks the rules ensured they couldn't really make a go off it. Max of 6 people, pub closed by 10, no music, nobody too drunk, only talk to person in your group, now talk of outdoor only venues in the middle of winter mean there was no appeal in going out anyhow. The same for anyone thinking of going abroad or coming to Ireland. It doesnt matter which countries are on the green or amber list or whatever.  Most people wont go anywhere as they dont want the hassle of guessing what different rules will be in place a week from now.  There are whole sectors of the economy screwed and the on off restrictions and rules that go along with it are only making it worse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 20, 2020, 12:05:36 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 19, 2020, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 19, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
So Micheál Martin confirmed its the suppress and release strategy until "a safe vaccine is found".

Ouch...that's a serous roll of the dice .
3 weeks in lockdown then 3 weeks off then back in for an arbitrary amount of time is the worst scenario for anyone trying to run a business in the hospitality sector as no one knows whether they are coming or going so no one can confidently book a table or a room anywhere 3 weeks in advance. The business may or may not still be opened and the people who own or work in the business may or may not be entitled to some payment but they have no customers either way. Even when businesses where opened for a few weeks the rules ensured they couldn't really make a go off it. Max of 6 people, pub closed by 10, no music, nobody too drunk, only talk to person in your group, now talk of outdoor only venues in the middle of winter mean there was no appeal in going out anyhow. The same for anyone thinking of going abroad or coming to Ireland. It doesnt matter which countries are on the green or amber list or whatever.  Most people wont go anywhere as they dont want the hassle of guessing what different rules will be in place a week from now.  There are whole sectors of the economy screwed and the on off restrictions and rules that go along with it are only making it worse.

Sin é. You can't have party pubs in the middle of pandemic, that is as good as it gets.
The trick is to ensure that the R after the current lockdown is 1.2 instead of 1.4 then the vaccine will be coming on stream before another lockdown is needed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 12:19:36 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2020, 12:05:36 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 19, 2020, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 19, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
So Micheál Martin confirmed its the suppress and release strategy until "a safe vaccine is found".

Ouch...that's a serous roll of the dice .
3 weeks in lockdown then 3 weeks off then back in for an arbitrary amount of time is the worst scenario for anyone trying to run a business in the hospitality sector as no one knows whether they are coming or going so no one can confidently book a table or a room anywhere 3 weeks in advance. The business may or may not still be opened and the people who own or work in the business may or may not be entitled to some payment but they have no customers either way. Even when businesses where opened for a few weeks the rules ensured they couldn't really make a go off it. Max of 6 people, pub closed by 10, no music, nobody too drunk, only talk to person in your group, now talk of outdoor only venues in the middle of winter mean there was no appeal in going out anyhow. The same for anyone thinking of going abroad or coming to Ireland. It doesnt matter which countries are on the green or amber list or whatever.  Most people wont go anywhere as they dont want the hassle of guessing what different rules will be in place a week from now.  There are whole sectors of the economy screwed and the on off restrictions and rules that go along with it are only making it worse.

Sin é. You can't have party pubs in the middle of pandemic, that is as good as it gets.
The trick is to ensure that the R after the current lockdown is 1.2 instead of 1.4 then the vaccine will be coming on stream before another lockdown is needed.

Patrick Vallance said today there wouldn't be a vaccine until at least the spring

There was a guy from whatever umbrella group represents the restaurants on the radio last week calling for the lockdown to be implemented now in the hope it would be lifted for the pre-Christmas period

Said 30% of his business for the year is in the weeks leading up to Christmas

Can see us going back to Level 5 in January

Ultimately this endless circle of trap and release is not sustainable but the will is not there to put in place a strategy to open up but keep the virus down

It's rather worrying

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on October 20, 2020, 01:48:27 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 19, 2020, 09:55:38 PM


As you never tire of reminding us, we do not lockdown for flu. Yet deaths from Covid in April in the middle of a lockdown were greater than the worst January without a lockdown. This reflects that Covid was much worse and the reaction was appropriate. January is sometimes a bad month, but the traditional winter season is only about 6 weeks, without the lockdown not only would Covid have killed more in April, but also in May, in June, in July, in August, in September and in October.
[/quote]

most sensible thing iv read on this thread, wd armagh
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: stephenite on October 20, 2020, 05:56:03 AM
Lockdown, Curfews, Restricted movements, these things all work in reducing the spread of the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 20, 2020, 06:56:17 AM
Not for the first time since Covid arrived, i'm exceptionally confused by government policy.

Cases are rising across Europe. There should be countries in Europe bucking this trend a little.

The common thinking that we've been following should allow those who enjoy a warmer climate, and have a population less tactile and less reliant on alcohol, a more prosperous autumn than us. If they have a more militant police force, even more so again.

But this isn't happening.

So the cause of wildfire spreading has to be something (or a group of things) that's common to us all.

For me, the one thing that seems to connect us  is that everyone sent their kids back to school between the end of August and the middle of September. Then, 2 or 3 weeks later, cases rose.

Obviously I've not the time nor will to research this accurately. It's just instinct. I would call it logic but I'm sure I'll be dismissed by others for having that level of confidence.

But I do believe it's the core commonality across Europe. And I would think that even if it's not true, it's not possible to disprove just yet. Graphs will largely concur. So when the Irish govt choose to lockdown a country but leave schools open, to me, that just smacks of a government choosing to tear the pages out of a book that doesn't suit them. If I'm right, they are currently leaving open an avenue to help Covid spread throughout every village in the county.

Surely, surely a 2 week full curfew lockdown before returning kids to schools infection free, then gradually reducing other restrictions over 6 weeks, would have been a much more pragmatic policy?



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 07:10:56 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 19, 2020, 11:54:26 PM
It's a bit mad that the DUP would rather see thousands of people die than restrict movement temporarily between the wee six and Britain

Completely owns the taigs though, so it's all worth it in the end I guess

It is not surprising. Sure brexit is shoot yourselves in the foot to build a wall to Dublin too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ballinaman on October 20, 2020, 07:23:39 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 12:19:36 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2020, 12:05:36 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 19, 2020, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 19, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
So Micheál Martin confirmed its the suppress and release strategy until "a safe vaccine is found".

Ouch...that's a serous roll of the dice .
3 weeks in lockdown then 3 weeks off then back in for an arbitrary amount of time is the worst scenario for anyone trying to run a business in the hospitality sector as no one knows whether they are coming or going so no one can confidently book a table or a room anywhere 3 weeks in advance. The business may or may not still be opened and the people who own or work in the business may or may not be entitled to some payment but they have no customers either way. Even when businesses where opened for a few weeks the rules ensured they couldn't really make a go off it. Max of 6 people, pub closed by 10, no music, nobody too drunk, only talk to person in your group, now talk of outdoor only venues in the middle of winter mean there was no appeal in going out anyhow. The same for anyone thinking of going abroad or coming to Ireland. It doesnt matter which countries are on the green or amber list or whatever.  Most people wont go anywhere as they dont want the hassle of guessing what different rules will be in place a week from now.  There are whole sectors of the economy screwed and the on off restrictions and rules that go along with it are only making it worse.

Sin é. You can't have party pubs in the middle of pandemic, that is as good as it gets.
The trick is to ensure that the R after the current lockdown is 1.2 instead of 1.4 then the vaccine will be coming on stream before another lockdown is needed.

Patrick Vallance said today there wouldn't be a vaccine until at least the spring

There was a guy from whatever umbrella group represents the restaurants on the radio last week calling for the lockdown to be implemented now in the hope it would be lifted for the pre-Christmas period

Said 30% of his business for the year is in the weeks leading up to Christmas

Can see us going back to Level 5 in January

Ultimately this endless circle of trap and release is not sustainable but the will is not there to put in place a strategy to open up but keep the virus down

It's rather worrying

Agreed, it all seems very short sighted .
We'll be ok for the summer....lockdown now and there will be a semblance of Christmas.

Vaccine is not a sure thing and it'll be required every year, production and distribution is another key obstacle . You would have to prove you've had a vaccine in some way before going anywhere also, some marker on your phone or something that could be scanned...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2020, 07:43:48 AM
I'd expect cases of the flu would be less this year due to the social distancing and sanitising and washing hands? Less chance of spreading than normal years..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Abble on October 20, 2020, 08:11:38 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 20, 2020, 06:56:17 AM
So the cause of wildfire spreading has to be something (or a group of things) that's common to us all.

For me, the one thing that seems to connect us  is that everyone sent their kids back to school between the end of August and the middle of September. Then, 2 or 3 weeks later, cases rose.

i feel we need to think back just to the 3-4 week period preceding the schools return. I don't think we can blame the kids (not saying that you are btw), but I think the drinking throughout pubs, alternatively the drinking in the home with parties and lots of mixing, people returning from various holidays home and abroad, university students in various locations returning and then mixing with families incl younger siblings are reasons why they started to then see the smaller kids picking it up and going into schools with it then.

just my opinion.

and like everything the kids will be the ones to feel the biggest effect of this, even tho they may haveno symptoms, but i think its safe to say that all kids are now getting a 3rd rate education here all because of idiots out there who either dont care about their own kids futures, and/or dont care about those close around them only so that they can get a drink! that first n foremost, plus the other small percentage of idiots out there doing nothing to protect themselves or others, people are getting fed up with it and dont take their necessary measures, you see it everywhere 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 08:27:47 AM
Schools have to be a massive factor they just have to be IMO. Universities too. It is very easy to blame people being idiots but there are many layers to this thing like I said starting from the top down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 20, 2020, 08:34:25 AM
Now  that we are in level 5 will the garda be getting tough on those anti maskers anti 5g crowd.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on October 20, 2020, 08:36:33 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 08:27:47 AM
Schools have to be a massive factor they just have to be IMO. Universities too. It is very easy to blame people being idiots but there are many layers to this thing like I said starting from the top down.

Allegedly the likes of the Elms halls of residence is an absolute petri dish for it with over 100 cases a few weeks back. Then they all go back to wherever at the weekend.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 08:57:44 AM
I honestly think that is one of the major sources up here.

Sure look at northumbria university - 770 positive cases.

A family near us took their daughter to university in Dundee and were saying that there were 700+ in one halls building alone.

Don't get me wrong - people need to behave however I really think this runs much much deeper than just misbehaving individuals. The government and major decision makers have a lot to answer for here too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 09:15:32 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 12:19:36 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2020, 12:05:36 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 19, 2020, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 19, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
So Micheál Martin confirmed its the suppress and release strategy until "a safe vaccine is found".

Ouch...that's a serous roll of the dice .
3 weeks in lockdown then 3 weeks off then back in for an arbitrary amount of time is the worst scenario for anyone trying to run a business in the hospitality sector as no one knows whether they are coming or going so no one can confidently book a table or a room anywhere 3 weeks in advance. The business may or may not still be opened and the people who own or work in the business may or may not be entitled to some payment but they have no customers either way. Even when businesses where opened for a few weeks the rules ensured they couldn't really make a go off it. Max of 6 people, pub closed by 10, no music, nobody too drunk, only talk to person in your group, now talk of outdoor only venues in the middle of winter mean there was no appeal in going out anyhow. The same for anyone thinking of going abroad or coming to Ireland. It doesnt matter which countries are on the green or amber list or whatever.  Most people wont go anywhere as they dont want the hassle of guessing what different rules will be in place a week from now.  There are whole sectors of the economy screwed and the on off restrictions and rules that go along with it are only making it worse.

Sin é. You can't have party pubs in the middle of pandemic, that is as good as it gets.
The trick is to ensure that the R after the current lockdown is 1.2 instead of 1.4 then the vaccine will be coming on stream before another lockdown is needed.

Patrick Vallance said today there wouldn't be a vaccine until at least the spring

There was a guy from whatever umbrella group represents the restaurants on the radio last week calling for the lockdown to be implemented now in the hope it would be lifted for the pre-Christmas period

Said 30% of his business for the year is in the weeks leading up to Christmas

Can see us going back to Level 5 in January

Ultimately this endless circle of trap and release is not sustainable but the will is not there to put in place a strategy to open up but keep the virus down

It's rather worrying

It's chaotic, we either learn to live with the virus or we lock ourselves away for an infinite amount of time until it's done which seems mad.

But this open/close/open/close strategy is completely for the birds.

There simply must not be another lockdown, the next time we come out there should be no way we go back in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2020, 09:19:53 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 09:15:32 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 12:19:36 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2020, 12:05:36 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 19, 2020, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 19, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
So Micheál Martin confirmed its the suppress and release strategy until "a safe vaccine is found".

Ouch...that's a serous roll of the dice .
3 weeks in lockdown then 3 weeks off then back in for an arbitrary amount of time is the worst scenario for anyone trying to run a business in the hospitality sector as no one knows whether they are coming or going so no one can confidently book a table or a room anywhere 3 weeks in advance. The business may or may not still be opened and the people who own or work in the business may or may not be entitled to some payment but they have no customers either way. Even when businesses where opened for a few weeks the rules ensured they couldn't really make a go off it. Max of 6 people, pub closed by 10, no music, nobody too drunk, only talk to person in your group, now talk of outdoor only venues in the middle of winter mean there was no appeal in going out anyhow. The same for anyone thinking of going abroad or coming to Ireland. It doesnt matter which countries are on the green or amber list or whatever.  Most people wont go anywhere as they dont want the hassle of guessing what different rules will be in place a week from now.  There are whole sectors of the economy screwed and the on off restrictions and rules that go along with it are only making it worse.

Sin é. You can't have party pubs in the middle of pandemic, that is as good as it gets.
The trick is to ensure that the R after the current lockdown is 1.2 instead of 1.4 then the vaccine will be coming on stream before another lockdown is needed.

Patrick Vallance said today there wouldn't be a vaccine until at least the spring

There was a guy from whatever umbrella group represents the restaurants on the radio last week calling for the lockdown to be implemented now in the hope it would be lifted for the pre-Christmas period

Said 30% of his business for the year is in the weeks leading up to Christmas

Can see us going back to Level 5 in January

Ultimately this endless circle of trap and release is not sustainable but the will is not there to put in place a strategy to open up but keep the virus down

It's rather worrying

It's chaotic, we either learn to live with the virus or we lock ourselves away for an infinite amount of time until it's done which seems mad.

But this open/close/open/close strategy is completely for the birds.

There simply must not be another lockdown, the next time we come out there should be no way we go back in.

This is the best you have come up with since Radio's post? wow!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 09:20:03 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 19, 2020, 09:55:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 07:46:42 PM
All I've said is that there are some interesting observations from the data presented. That is raw data on death rates in the 26. It's an interesting observation that excess rates have not really seen a great rise and that death rates in April were similar to flu seasons in January in prior years.

As you never tire of reminding us, we do not lockdown for flu. Yet deaths from Covid in April in the middle of a lockdown were greater than the worst January without a lockdown. This reflects that Covid was much worse and the reaction was appropriate. January is sometimes a bad month, but the traditional winter season is only about 6 weeks, without the lockdown not only would Covid have killed more in April, but also in May, in June, in July, in August, in September and in October.

That's actually just not true.

I posted something up yesterday which analysed death rates in the 26 from the main flu season month in January and it found the no of deaths in April of this year was very similar with bad flu seasons in January of some prior years.

So what does that data reflect?

The first wave was an outlier, we are seeing huge falls in fatality rates across Europe now.

The message you seem to be transmitting is that any death from flu is acceptable and any death from Covid is unacceptable and the far-reaching consequences of lockdowns on the physical, mental, social and financial wellbeing are completely irrelevant.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 19, 2020, 08:28:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 05:06:57 PM
Those people with Covid tunnel vision have absolutely no interest in looking at the consequences of using lockdowns and restrictions to fight it, maybe you should look at the bigger picture for once.

Current case fatality rate here is 4% (time weighted for day of contraction).

I was going to say that is overly pessimistic and take 1% instead. But, if we followed your course (which you don't outline, but the assumption must be that it is light touch), then the health services would collapse and you would see 4% as a minimum death rate over the long term

Then with your world of minimal restrictions, how many get the virus? Half the population before herd immunity effects kick in? (Half being optimistic, usual thought train is around 70% of populace needs to be immune.)

So, half the population of the north is 1.8 million. Half of that is 900k. 4% of that is 36k people.

In 2018, 15,922 people died in the north. You are advocating doubling the annual death rate in response to worries over intangible forecasts elsewhere.


Big picture? You don't have a f**king clue. Not surprising the man that cannot grasp the difference between fractions and percentages cannot play with big numbers.

It's not my fault you don't understand the figures so the arrogance of you telling someone else they don't have a clue when you are displaying that exact trait yourself is something else.

I'm not advocating doubling the death total.

April is an outlier. Take April out of the equation and it's a steady enough year in terms of deaths. All across Europe Covid cases are doubling and trebling yet fatality rates are falling in double digit multiples, in the 30s and 40s in the likes of France and Belgium. So how you can come up with those figures is flabbergasting.

At the rate we would need the health service to creak we would probably need to be getting 2k positive cases a day from 4-5 tests, the positive rate on tests is currently 20%, we would need to go to 40% for that to happen. New daily case rates have been steady now for the past 2-3 week which means active cases should stagnate and not rise unless we start returning 2k positive tests a day.

There's absolutely no basis for a 4% rise in death rates. At present we have 0.11% of Covid Active Cases in ICU (not 4%, 0.11%). To reach ICU capacity we probably need an additional 11k in ACTIVE cases in the next fortnight to get to that point. In other words we would probably need about a 30% rise in cases in the next fortnight when all the data is actually pointing to daily case rates stabilising.

There is absolutely no evidence at all to say we can expect a repeat of April figures, none. Look all across Europe now - look at the rises in cases, look at the comparative death figures - all dropping by double digit multiples so to put a 4% fatality figure is fearmongering of the highest order and it does a severe disservice to vulnerable people who are impacted by the consequences of lockdowns and restrictions.

The mortality rate in the second wave is well below 1%

Since the 1st August we've had 63 Covid deaths and 21,741 Covid cases - that's a death rate of 0.29%. That's a death rate 13 times less than you have projected.

I'll also promise you this, if we have a death rate of 4% from Covid cases 1 Aug to 31 December I will have no problem resigning from this forum.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 09:47:14 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 09:15:32 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 12:19:36 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2020, 12:05:36 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 19, 2020, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 19, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
So Micheál Martin confirmed its the suppress and release strategy until "a safe vaccine is found".

Ouch...that's a serous roll of the dice .
3 weeks in lockdown then 3 weeks off then back in for an arbitrary amount of time is the worst scenario for anyone trying to run a business in the hospitality sector as no one knows whether they are coming or going so no one can confidently book a table or a room anywhere 3 weeks in advance. The business may or may not still be opened and the people who own or work in the business may or may not be entitled to some payment but they have no customers either way. Even when businesses where opened for a few weeks the rules ensured they couldn't really make a go off it. Max of 6 people, pub closed by 10, no music, nobody too drunk, only talk to person in your group, now talk of outdoor only venues in the middle of winter mean there was no appeal in going out anyhow. The same for anyone thinking of going abroad or coming to Ireland. It doesnt matter which countries are on the green or amber list or whatever.  Most people wont go anywhere as they dont want the hassle of guessing what different rules will be in place a week from now.  There are whole sectors of the economy screwed and the on off restrictions and rules that go along with it are only making it worse.

Sin é. You can't have party pubs in the middle of pandemic, that is as good as it gets.
The trick is to ensure that the R after the current lockdown is 1.2 instead of 1.4 then the vaccine will be coming on stream before another lockdown is needed.

Patrick Vallance said today there wouldn't be a vaccine until at least the spring

There was a guy from whatever umbrella group represents the restaurants on the radio last week calling for the lockdown to be implemented now in the hope it would be lifted for the pre-Christmas period

Said 30% of his business for the year is in the weeks leading up to Christmas

Can see us going back to Level 5 in January

Ultimately this endless circle of trap and release is not sustainable but the will is not there to put in place a strategy to open up but keep the virus down

It's rather worrying

It's chaotic, we either learn to live with the virus or we lock ourselves away for an infinite amount of time until it's done which seems mad.

But this open/close/open/close strategy is completely for the birds.

There simply must not be another lockdown, the next time we come out there should be no way we go back in.
Live with the virus means you come up with a suppression strategy so you can open up safely

It does not mean open up and allow the virus to spread wildly

This is what Dr. Nabarro from the WHO was talking about
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 10:03:22 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 09:47:14 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 09:15:32 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 12:19:36 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2020, 12:05:36 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 19, 2020, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 19, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
So Micheál Martin confirmed its the suppress and release strategy until "a safe vaccine is found".

Ouch...that's a serous roll of the dice .
3 weeks in lockdown then 3 weeks off then back in for an arbitrary amount of time is the worst scenario for anyone trying to run a business in the hospitality sector as no one knows whether they are coming or going so no one can confidently book a table or a room anywhere 3 weeks in advance. The business may or may not still be opened and the people who own or work in the business may or may not be entitled to some payment but they have no customers either way. Even when businesses where opened for a few weeks the rules ensured they couldn't really make a go off it. Max of 6 people, pub closed by 10, no music, nobody too drunk, only talk to person in your group, now talk of outdoor only venues in the middle of winter mean there was no appeal in going out anyhow. The same for anyone thinking of going abroad or coming to Ireland. It doesnt matter which countries are on the green or amber list or whatever.  Most people wont go anywhere as they dont want the hassle of guessing what different rules will be in place a week from now.  There are whole sectors of the economy screwed and the on off restrictions and rules that go along with it are only making it worse.

Sin é. You can't have party pubs in the middle of pandemic, that is as good as it gets.
The trick is to ensure that the R after the current lockdown is 1.2 instead of 1.4 then the vaccine will be coming on stream before another lockdown is needed.

Patrick Vallance said today there wouldn't be a vaccine until at least the spring

There was a guy from whatever umbrella group represents the restaurants on the radio last week calling for the lockdown to be implemented now in the hope it would be lifted for the pre-Christmas period

Said 30% of his business for the year is in the weeks leading up to Christmas

Can see us going back to Level 5 in January

Ultimately this endless circle of trap and release is not sustainable but the will is not there to put in place a strategy to open up but keep the virus down

It's rather worrying

It's chaotic, we either learn to live with the virus or we lock ourselves away for an infinite amount of time until it's done which seems mad.

But this open/close/open/close strategy is completely for the birds.

There simply must not be another lockdown, the next time we come out there should be no way we go back in.
Live with the virus means you come up with a suppression strategy so you can open up safely

It does not mean open up and allow the virus to spread wildly

This is what Dr. Nabarro from the WHO was talking about

People seem to be conflating the first wave with the second wave.

Since August 63 people have died from Covid in the O6.

A little less than one per day, have we any barometer what level of death is acceptable. If we find out in January and February that we had an extra 70 incidents of suicides, if domestic violence cases were up 80%, if mental health problems increased, if addictions relapses increased 40% - at which point would we say that the implementation of lockdowns and restrictive measures are actually having a much more negative societal impact than they are having a positive one.

So unless Governments have some break even point identified, some form of acceptable Covid risk identified then we are in serious bother as a society.

We live with seasonal flu, it puts the health system under pressure every year, it kills people, causes long lasting health problems - but governments clearly feel all those risks are acceptable to a certain level so what I want to know is what is deemed acceptable with Covid? What are we aiming for? The messaging from government is the most worrying aspect out of all of this, it's close your eyes and hope for the best. Repeat failed strategies and hope for the best.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 10:16:29 AM
failed strategy, what is yours still waiting days later... and how would it effect all those issues addiction, suicide, somestic violance. You are very accepting of expects opinions on these no so much on covid!!!

i hate to say this but just to use your logic, we live with suicide, we live with addictions and domestic violance.. what is your acceptable level for these?

do you understand that without action the numbers increase week on week and as the numbers increase there is increased risk for the most vulnerable cohort and also it would put untold pressure on the health system which will have knock on effects other health services leading to more issues again foe the vulnerable and sick.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on October 20, 2020, 10:24:34 AM
Jeez Angelo you must be one of the stupidest people ever on this board, and that is saying something.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 10:31:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 10:03:22 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 09:47:14 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 09:15:32 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 12:19:36 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2020, 12:05:36 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 19, 2020, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 19, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
So Micheál Martin confirmed its the suppress and release strategy until "a safe vaccine is found".

Ouch...that's a serous roll of the dice .
3 weeks in lockdown then 3 weeks off then back in for an arbitrary amount of time is the worst scenario for anyone trying to run a business in the hospitality sector as no one knows whether they are coming or going so no one can confidently book a table or a room anywhere 3 weeks in advance. The business may or may not still be opened and the people who own or work in the business may or may not be entitled to some payment but they have no customers either way. Even when businesses where opened for a few weeks the rules ensured they couldn't really make a go off it. Max of 6 people, pub closed by 10, no music, nobody too drunk, only talk to person in your group, now talk of outdoor only venues in the middle of winter mean there was no appeal in going out anyhow. The same for anyone thinking of going abroad or coming to Ireland. It doesnt matter which countries are on the green or amber list or whatever.  Most people wont go anywhere as they dont want the hassle of guessing what different rules will be in place a week from now.  There are whole sectors of the economy screwed and the on off restrictions and rules that go along with it are only making it worse.

Sin é. You can't have party pubs in the middle of pandemic, that is as good as it gets.
The trick is to ensure that the R after the current lockdown is 1.2 instead of 1.4 then the vaccine will be coming on stream before another lockdown is needed.

Patrick Vallance said today there wouldn't be a vaccine until at least the spring

There was a guy from whatever umbrella group represents the restaurants on the radio last week calling for the lockdown to be implemented now in the hope it would be lifted for the pre-Christmas period

Said 30% of his business for the year is in the weeks leading up to Christmas

Can see us going back to Level 5 in January

Ultimately this endless circle of trap and release is not sustainable but the will is not there to put in place a strategy to open up but keep the virus down

It's rather worrying

It's chaotic, we either learn to live with the virus or we lock ourselves away for an infinite amount of time until it's done which seems mad.

But this open/close/open/close strategy is completely for the birds.

There simply must not be another lockdown, the next time we come out there should be no way we go back in.
Live with the virus means you come up with a suppression strategy so you can open up safely

It does not mean open up and allow the virus to spread wildly

This is what Dr. Nabarro from the WHO was talking about

People seem to be conflating the first wave with the second wave.

Since August 63 people have died from Covid in the O6.

A little less than one per day, have we any barometer what level of death is acceptable. If we find out in January and February that we had an extra 70 incidents of suicides, if domestic violence cases were up 80%, if mental health problems increased, if addictions relapses increased 40% - at which point would we say that the implementation of lockdowns and restrictive measures are actually having a much more negative societal impact than they are having a positive one.

So unless Governments have some break even point identified, some form of acceptable Covid risk identified then we are in serious bother as a society.

We live with seasonal flu, it puts the health system under pressure every year, it kills people, causes long lasting health problems - but governments clearly feel all those risks are acceptable to a certain level so what I want to know is what is deemed acceptable with Covid? What are we aiming for? The messaging from government is the most worrying aspect out of all of this, it's close your eyes and hope for the best. Repeat failed strategies and hope for the best.
Covid is not seasonal flu

It does not peak in January and then go away

It keeps going relentlessly

But that is not to say that there may not be a seasonal element to it

You are making cast iron assumptions based on totally incomplete evidence

Actually, what you are assuming is that the virus has mutated into a significantly less severe form

There is no evidence for that

The apparently lower death rate currently is likely down to dynamics we do not fully understand

Maybe the old and vulnerable are protecting themselves much more effectively than in the spring and it's largely the less vulnerable who are currently getting it

Masks could be playing a role in how serious a viral load people are receiving

Maybe the way the virus is being treated in hospitals is slightly more effective than in spring

Yet in the US deaths are continuing to tick along at a pretty steady rate and have been doing so since the summer

The more the virus spreads, the harder it is to protect the old and vulnerable and then there's a very good chance the assumptions you are making about death rates will look very foolish





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 10:38:28 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 10:16:29 AM
failed strategy, what is yours still waiting days later... and how would it effect all those issues addiction, suicide, somestic violance. You are very accepting of expects opinions on these no so much on covid!!!

i hate to say this but just to use your logic, we live with suicide, we live with addictions and domestic violance.. what is your acceptable level for these?

do you understand that without action the numbers increase week on week and as the numbers increase there is increased risk for the most vulnerable cohort and also it would put untold pressure on the health system which will have knock on effects other health services leading to more issues again foe the vulnerable and sick.
This should be a basic question for those who are against these new level 5 restrictions - what is your strategy?


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 10:42:08 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 10:31:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 10:03:22 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 09:47:14 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 09:15:32 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 12:19:36 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2020, 12:05:36 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 19, 2020, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 19, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
So Micheál Martin confirmed its the suppress and release strategy until "a safe vaccine is found".

Ouch...that's a serous roll of the dice .
3 weeks in lockdown then 3 weeks off then back in for an arbitrary amount of time is the worst scenario for anyone trying to run a business in the hospitality sector as no one knows whether they are coming or going so no one can confidently book a table or a room anywhere 3 weeks in advance. The business may or may not still be opened and the people who own or work in the business may or may not be entitled to some payment but they have no customers either way. Even when businesses where opened for a few weeks the rules ensured they couldn't really make a go off it. Max of 6 people, pub closed by 10, no music, nobody too drunk, only talk to person in your group, now talk of outdoor only venues in the middle of winter mean there was no appeal in going out anyhow. The same for anyone thinking of going abroad or coming to Ireland. It doesnt matter which countries are on the green or amber list or whatever.  Most people wont go anywhere as they dont want the hassle of guessing what different rules will be in place a week from now.  There are whole sectors of the economy screwed and the on off restrictions and rules that go along with it are only making it worse.

Sin é. You can't have party pubs in the middle of pandemic, that is as good as it gets.
The trick is to ensure that the R after the current lockdown is 1.2 instead of 1.4 then the vaccine will be coming on stream before another lockdown is needed.

Patrick Vallance said today there wouldn't be a vaccine until at least the spring

There was a guy from whatever umbrella group represents the restaurants on the radio last week calling for the lockdown to be implemented now in the hope it would be lifted for the pre-Christmas period

Said 30% of his business for the year is in the weeks leading up to Christmas

Can see us going back to Level 5 in January

Ultimately this endless circle of trap and release is not sustainable but the will is not there to put in place a strategy to open up but keep the virus down

It's rather worrying

It's chaotic, we either learn to live with the virus or we lock ourselves away for an infinite amount of time until it's done which seems mad.

But this open/close/open/close strategy is completely for the birds.

There simply must not be another lockdown, the next time we come out there should be no way we go back in.
Live with the virus means you come up with a suppression strategy so you can open up safely

It does not mean open up and allow the virus to spread wildly

This is what Dr. Nabarro from the WHO was talking about

People seem to be conflating the first wave with the second wave.

Since August 63 people have died from Covid in the O6.

A little less than one per day, have we any barometer what level of death is acceptable. If we find out in January and February that we had an extra 70 incidents of suicides, if domestic violence cases were up 80%, if mental health problems increased, if addictions relapses increased 40% - at which point would we say that the implementation of lockdowns and restrictive measures are actually having a much more negative societal impact than they are having a positive one.

So unless Governments have some break even point identified, some form of acceptable Covid risk identified then we are in serious bother as a society.

We live with seasonal flu, it puts the health system under pressure every year, it kills people, causes long lasting health problems - but governments clearly feel all those risks are acceptable to a certain level so what I want to know is what is deemed acceptable with Covid? What are we aiming for? The messaging from government is the most worrying aspect out of all of this, it's close your eyes and hope for the best. Repeat failed strategies and hope for the best.
Covid is not seasonal flu

It does not peak in January and then go away

It keeps going relentlessly

But that is not to say that there may not be a seasonal element to it

You are making cast iron assumptions based on totally incomplete evidence

Actually, what you are assuming is that the virus has mutated into a significantly less severe form

There is no evidence for that

The apparently lower death rate currently is likely down to dynamics we do not fully understand

Maybe the old and vulnerable are protecting themselves much more effectively than in the spring and it's largely the less vulnerable who are currently getting it

Masks could be playing a role in how serious a viral load people are receiving

Maybe the way the virus is being treated in hospitals is slightly more effective than in spring

Yet in the US deaths are continuing to tick along at a pretty steady rate and have been doing so since the summer

The more the virus spreads, the harder it is to protect the old and vulnerable and then there's a very good chance the assumptions you are making about death rates will look very foolish

I'm not making any assumptions.

What am I saying is that people are becoming consumed by a virus which current data shows fatality rates at around 0.29% of positive cases - probably lower as testing is probably not catching close to the true amount of positive cases and currently has an ICU incidence rate of 0.11%. That is what the current data tells us. There are no assumptions there

And once again, complete and utter ignorance of the widespread and long term detrimental consequences to so many vulnerable factions of society that lockdowns and restrictions bring.

So I will ask you again, at what measure do we say there is an acceptable level of risk and death with Covid, like we do with seasonal flu every year? Not one person has addressed this yet, not one. I'll have all the blowhards here, sniping away like the cowards they are but when they are pushed for an answer on that, their yellow underbelly is there for all to see.

I've made the point that we live with flu, it causes death, it causes health problems, it puts strain on the health service - yet we accept all that with it. We accept the deaths, we accept the health problems, we accept the strain on the health service, we accept the level of risk. So at which point does Covid carry an acceptable level of risk? That one is for all the blowhards here, have any of the posters happy enough to take their snide shots a pair of balls big enough to answer that question? Anyone?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 10:43:06 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 20, 2020, 06:56:17 AM

Cases are rising across Europe. There should be countries in Europe bucking this trend a little.

The common thinking that we've been following should allow those who enjoy a warmer climate, and have a population less tactile and less reliant on alcohol, a more prosperous autumn than us. If they have a more militant police force, even more so again.

But this isn't happening.

So the cause of wildfire spreading has to be something (or a group of things) that's common to us all.

For me, the one thing that seems to connect us  is that everyone sent their kids back to school between the end of August and the middle of September. Then, 2 or 3 weeks later, cases rose.

Obviously I've not the time nor will to research this accurately. It's just instinct. I would call it logic but I'm sure I'll be dismissed by others for having that level of confidence.

But I do believe it's the core commonality across Europe.
This is rare but I think I actually agree with you
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 10:48:46 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 10:16:29 AM
failed strategy, what is yours still waiting days later... and how would it effect all those issues addiction, suicide, somestic violance. You are very accepting of expects opinions on these no so much on covid!!!

i hate to say this but just to use your logic, we live with suicide, we live with addictions and domestic violance.. what is your acceptable level for these?

do you understand that without action the numbers increase week on week and as the numbers increase there is increased risk for the most vulnerable cohort and also it would put untold pressure on the health system which will have knock on effects other health services leading to more issues again foe the vulnerable and sick.

Jesus Christ.

I have given it to about 10 times now.

Exactly what we were doing before we went into the second lockdown.

Keep businesses open, practice social distancing, wear masks, good hand hygiene, limited indoor crowds. That is the strategy I would have kept.

I've told you this countless times now, that is what I think is the best course of action. We need to learn to live with the virus, we can't keep going in and out of lockdowns because for me the consequences of such are far, far, far more concerning than a virus which we can see at present has a 0.11% ICU incidence rate and a 0.29% fatality rate. I would speculate, and remember all of us are only speculating here - though the arrogance of the lockdown crew would have you think they know it all, that the wider societal impacts are much more consequential than this.

There is no strategy from government only lockdown to lower cases, open up to rise cases, lockdown to lower, open up to rise, repeat until such time as science cracks it which could be never. I think we are better off getting on with it.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 10:48:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 10:42:08 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 10:31:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 10:03:22 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 09:47:14 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 09:15:32 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 12:19:36 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2020, 12:05:36 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 19, 2020, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 19, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
So Micheál Martin confirmed its the suppress and release strategy until "a safe vaccine is found".

Ouch...that's a serous roll of the dice .
3 weeks in lockdown then 3 weeks off then back in for an arbitrary amount of time is the worst scenario for anyone trying to run a business in the hospitality sector as no one knows whether they are coming or going so no one can confidently book a table or a room anywhere 3 weeks in advance. The business may or may not still be opened and the people who own or work in the business may or may not be entitled to some payment but they have no customers either way. Even when businesses where opened for a few weeks the rules ensured they couldn't really make a go off it. Max of 6 people, pub closed by 10, no music, nobody too drunk, only talk to person in your group, now talk of outdoor only venues in the middle of winter mean there was no appeal in going out anyhow. The same for anyone thinking of going abroad or coming to Ireland. It doesnt matter which countries are on the green or amber list or whatever.  Most people wont go anywhere as they dont want the hassle of guessing what different rules will be in place a week from now.  There are whole sectors of the economy screwed and the on off restrictions and rules that go along with it are only making it worse.

Sin é. You can't have party pubs in the middle of pandemic, that is as good as it gets.
The trick is to ensure that the R after the current lockdown is 1.2 instead of 1.4 then the vaccine will be coming on stream before another lockdown is needed.

Patrick Vallance said today there wouldn't be a vaccine until at least the spring

There was a guy from whatever umbrella group represents the restaurants on the radio last week calling for the lockdown to be implemented now in the hope it would be lifted for the pre-Christmas period

Said 30% of his business for the year is in the weeks leading up to Christmas

Can see us going back to Level 5 in January

Ultimately this endless circle of trap and release is not sustainable but the will is not there to put in place a strategy to open up but keep the virus down

It's rather worrying

It's chaotic, we either learn to live with the virus or we lock ourselves away for an infinite amount of time until it's done which seems mad.

But this open/close/open/close strategy is completely for the birds.

There simply must not be another lockdown, the next time we come out there should be no way we go back in.
Live with the virus means you come up with a suppression strategy so you can open up safely

It does not mean open up and allow the virus to spread wildly

This is what Dr. Nabarro from the WHO was talking about

People seem to be conflating the first wave with the second wave.

Since August 63 people have died from Covid in the O6.

A little less than one per day, have we any barometer what level of death is acceptable. If we find out in January and February that we had an extra 70 incidents of suicides, if domestic violence cases were up 80%, if mental health problems increased, if addictions relapses increased 40% - at which point would we say that the implementation of lockdowns and restrictive measures are actually having a much more negative societal impact than they are having a positive one.

So unless Governments have some break even point identified, some form of acceptable Covid risk identified then we are in serious bother as a society.

We live with seasonal flu, it puts the health system under pressure every year, it kills people, causes long lasting health problems - but governments clearly feel all those risks are acceptable to a certain level so what I want to know is what is deemed acceptable with Covid? What are we aiming for? The messaging from government is the most worrying aspect out of all of this, it's close your eyes and hope for the best. Repeat failed strategies and hope for the best.
Covid is not seasonal flu

It does not peak in January and then go away

It keeps going relentlessly

But that is not to say that there may not be a seasonal element to it

You are making cast iron assumptions based on totally incomplete evidence

Actually, what you are assuming is that the virus has mutated into a significantly less severe form

There is no evidence for that

The apparently lower death rate currently is likely down to dynamics we do not fully understand

Maybe the old and vulnerable are protecting themselves much more effectively than in the spring and it's largely the less vulnerable who are currently getting it

Masks could be playing a role in how serious a viral load people are receiving

Maybe the way the virus is being treated in hospitals is slightly more effective than in spring

Yet in the US deaths are continuing to tick along at a pretty steady rate and have been doing so since the summer

The more the virus spreads, the harder it is to protect the old and vulnerable and then there's a very good chance the assumptions you are making about death rates will look very foolish

I'm not making any assumptions.

What am I saying is that people are becoming consumed by a virus which current data shows fatality rates at around 0.29% of positive cases - probably lower as testing is probably not catching close to the true amount of positive cases and currently has an ICU incidence rate of 0.11%. That is what the current data tells us. There are no assumptions there

And once again, complete and utter ignorance of the widespread and long term detrimental consequences to so many vulnerable factions of society that lockdowns and restrictions bring.

So I will ask you again, at what measure do we say there is an acceptable level of risk and death with Covid, like we do with seasonal flu every year? Not one person has addressed this yet, not one. I'll have all the blowhards here, sniping away like the cowards they are but when they are pushed for an answer on that, their yellow underbelly is there for all to see.

I've made the point that we live with flu, it causes death, it causes health problems, it puts strain on the health service - yet we accept all that with it. We accept the deaths, we accept the health problems, we accept the strain on the health service, we accept the level of risk. So at which point does Covid carry an acceptable level of risk? That one is for all the blowhards here, have any of the posters happy enough to take their snide shots a pair of balls big enough to answer that question? Anyone?

But you're refusing to elaborate on why you think death rates are currently lower than in spring

It seems clear that you really do believe the virus has mutated into a significantly less serious form

If you don't believe that, then there has been literally no point to your last 20 pages of posts



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on October 20, 2020, 10:54:54 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 20, 2020, 10:24:34 AM
Jeez Angelo you must be one of the stupidest people ever on this board, and that is saying something.

He's in good company if you look into the Great Barrington Declaration but look even deeper as to the right wing cúnts who funded it and all becomes clear.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 20, 2020, 10:58:16 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 20, 2020, 10:24:34 AM
Jeez Angelo you must be one of the stupidest people ever on this board, and that is saying something.

Jesus lads, this is definitely the most anger filled thread in here in some time.

Angelo has some points like everyone else, some of the stuff he says is probably going to turn out true over the course of time. Some of the stuff, will be wrong.

Everyone is guessing at this stage still really, scarily.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 20, 2020, 11:03:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 20, 2020, 10:58:16 AM
Everyone is guessing at this stage still really, scarily.

Yes, we are all guessing to some extent, but the likes of Stephen Fauci has a team of 100 people with PhDs, his guesses are a hell of a lot more solidly based than randomers on the Internet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on October 20, 2020, 11:05:12 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 10:16:29 AM
failed strategy, what is yours still waiting days later... and how would it effect all those issues addiction, suicide, somestic violance. You are very accepting of expects opinions on these no so much on covid!!!

i hate to say this but just to use your logic, we live with suicide, we live with addictions and domestic violance.. what is your acceptable level for these?

do you understand that without action the numbers increase week on week and as the numbers increase there is increased risk for the most vulnerable cohort and also it would put untold pressure on the health system which will have knock on effects other health services leading to more issues again foe the vulnerable and sick.

There is no acceptable level of suicide, addiction or domestic violence but we don't shut down half the country on foot of these problems. We have no choice but to live with them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 11:07:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 10:48:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 10:42:08 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 10:31:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 10:03:22 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 09:47:14 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 09:15:32 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 12:19:36 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2020, 12:05:36 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 19, 2020, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 19, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
So Micheál Martin confirmed its the suppress and release strategy until "a safe vaccine is found".

Ouch...that's a serous roll of the dice .
3 weeks in lockdown then 3 weeks off then back in for an arbitrary amount of time is the worst scenario for anyone trying to run a business in the hospitality sector as no one knows whether they are coming or going so no one can confidently book a table or a room anywhere 3 weeks in advance. The business may or may not still be opened and the people who own or work in the business may or may not be entitled to some payment but they have no customers either way. Even when businesses where opened for a few weeks the rules ensured they couldn't really make a go off it. Max of 6 people, pub closed by 10, no music, nobody too drunk, only talk to person in your group, now talk of outdoor only venues in the middle of winter mean there was no appeal in going out anyhow. The same for anyone thinking of going abroad or coming to Ireland. It doesnt matter which countries are on the green or amber list or whatever.  Most people wont go anywhere as they dont want the hassle of guessing what different rules will be in place a week from now.  There are whole sectors of the economy screwed and the on off restrictions and rules that go along with it are only making it worse.

Sin é. You can't have party pubs in the middle of pandemic, that is as good as it gets.
The trick is to ensure that the R after the current lockdown is 1.2 instead of 1.4 then the vaccine will be coming on stream before another lockdown is needed.

Patrick Vallance said today there wouldn't be a vaccine until at least the spring

There was a guy from whatever umbrella group represents the restaurants on the radio last week calling for the lockdown to be implemented now in the hope it would be lifted for the pre-Christmas period

Said 30% of his business for the year is in the weeks leading up to Christmas

Can see us going back to Level 5 in January

Ultimately this endless circle of trap and release is not sustainable but the will is not there to put in place a strategy to open up but keep the virus down

It's rather worrying

It's chaotic, we either learn to live with the virus or we lock ourselves away for an infinite amount of time until it's done which seems mad.

But this open/close/open/close strategy is completely for the birds.

There simply must not be another lockdown, the next time we come out there should be no way we go back in.
Live with the virus means you come up with a suppression strategy so you can open up safely

It does not mean open up and allow the virus to spread wildly

This is what Dr. Nabarro from the WHO was talking about

People seem to be conflating the first wave with the second wave.

Since August 63 people have died from Covid in the O6.

A little less than one per day, have we any barometer what level of death is acceptable. If we find out in January and February that we had an extra 70 incidents of suicides, if domestic violence cases were up 80%, if mental health problems increased, if addictions relapses increased 40% - at which point would we say that the implementation of lockdowns and restrictive measures are actually having a much more negative societal impact than they are having a positive one.

So unless Governments have some break even point identified, some form of acceptable Covid risk identified then we are in serious bother as a society.

We live with seasonal flu, it puts the health system under pressure every year, it kills people, causes long lasting health problems - but governments clearly feel all those risks are acceptable to a certain level so what I want to know is what is deemed acceptable with Covid? What are we aiming for? The messaging from government is the most worrying aspect out of all of this, it's close your eyes and hope for the best. Repeat failed strategies and hope for the best.
Covid is not seasonal flu

It does not peak in January and then go away

It keeps going relentlessly

But that is not to say that there may not be a seasonal element to it

You are making cast iron assumptions based on totally incomplete evidence

Actually, what you are assuming is that the virus has mutated into a significantly less severe form

There is no evidence for that

The apparently lower death rate currently is likely down to dynamics we do not fully understand

Maybe the old and vulnerable are protecting themselves much more effectively than in the spring and it's largely the less vulnerable who are currently getting it

Masks could be playing a role in how serious a viral load people are receiving

Maybe the way the virus is being treated in hospitals is slightly more effective than in spring

Yet in the US deaths are continuing to tick along at a pretty steady rate and have been doing so since the summer

The more the virus spreads, the harder it is to protect the old and vulnerable and then there's a very good chance the assumptions you are making about death rates will look very foolish

I'm not making any assumptions.

What am I saying is that people are becoming consumed by a virus which current data shows fatality rates at around 0.29% of positive cases - probably lower as testing is probably not catching close to the true amount of positive cases and currently has an ICU incidence rate of 0.11%. That is what the current data tells us. There are no assumptions there

And once again, complete and utter ignorance of the widespread and long term detrimental consequences to so many vulnerable factions of society that lockdowns and restrictions bring.

So I will ask you again, at what measure do we say there is an acceptable level of risk and death with Covid, like we do with seasonal flu every year? Not one person has addressed this yet, not one. I'll have all the blowhards here, sniping away like the cowards they are but when they are pushed for an answer on that, their yellow underbelly is there for all to see.

I've made the point that we live with flu, it causes death, it causes health problems, it puts strain on the health service - yet we accept all that with it. We accept the deaths, we accept the health problems, we accept the strain on the health service, we accept the level of risk. So at which point does Covid carry an acceptable level of risk? That one is for all the blowhards here, have any of the posters happy enough to take their snide shots a pair of balls big enough to answer that question? Anyone?

But you're refusing to elaborate on why you think death rates are currently lower than in spring

It seems clear that you really do believe the virus has mutated into a significantly less serious form

If you don't believe that, then there has been literally no point to your last 20 pages of posts

I don't know. I would say it was something to do with being taken on the hop by it, no preparation, lack of knowledge in treating patients, insufficient PPE in hospitals that might have spread it to vulnerable patients. It could be anything but the way the data is trending is encouraging in terms of the risk of the virus. For a fit and healthy person, the chances of dying from it seem very remote.

The only observation I have made is that the virus is significantly level fatal in the second wave than the first. That's what the data says. It could be for a number of different reasons but you haven't a clue why and neither do I.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 11:09:52 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2020, 11:03:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 20, 2020, 10:58:16 AM
Everyone is guessing at this stage still really, scarily.

Yes, we are all guessing to some extent, but the likes of Stephen Fauci has a team of 100 people with PhDs, his guesses are a hell of a lot more solidly based than randomers on the Internet.

And there are also 100s of people with PHDs who will take up the opposite side of the debate, so it's hardly a concrete point. These experts are at odds with each other.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 20, 2020, 11:15:05 AM
Quote from: five points on October 20, 2020, 11:05:12 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 10:16:29 AM
failed strategy, what is yours still waiting days later... and how would it effect all those issues addiction, suicide, somestic violance. You are very accepting of expects opinions on these no so much on covid!!!

i hate to say this but just to use your logic, we live with suicide, we live with addictions and domestic violance.. what is your acceptable level for these?

do you understand that without action the numbers increase week on week and as the numbers increase there is increased risk for the most vulnerable cohort and also it would put untold pressure on the health system which will have knock on effects other health services leading to more issues again foe the vulnerable and sick.

There is no acceptable level of suicide, addiction or domestic violence but we don't shut down half the country on foot of these problems. We have no choice but to live with them.

To a degree, it won't affect people, so they turn a blind eye.

But if you look at it from a University Students point of view, Covid won't affect them....so they turn a blind eye.

Hard to get full compliance when this is a virus that discriminates so clearly to the 'weak'.

The replies to this will be selfish so and sos...I know, I agree. But it's not exactly going to do anything positive.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ballinaman on October 20, 2020, 11:25:16 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 11:09:52 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2020, 11:03:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 20, 2020, 10:58:16 AM
Everyone is guessing at this stage still really, scarily.

Yes, we are all guessing to some extent, but the likes of Stephen Fauci has a team of 100 people with PhDs, his guesses are a hell of a lot more solidly based than randomers on the Internet.

And there are also 100s of people with PHDs who will take up the opposite side of the debate, so it's hardly a concrete point. These experts are at odds with each other.
Cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias really coming to the fore during covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 11:35:48 AM
Given the actual deaths attributed to Covid and a lot of those deaths are not from covid with the 28 day rule, also given the societal damage to the country, the mental health implications of losing jobs, being locked up with an abuser for example, being left isolated, drinking too much, eating too much, worrying too much, having nothing to look forward to - is it a case that the cure is seriously more dangerous and harmful than the cause. To quote Spock , "Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." Captain Kirk answers, "Or the one." , here we have the needs of the few outweighing the needs of the many. Yes folk will die from this - some have, certainly not as many as reported, but when does it end, has there ever been a 100% successful vaccine against a virus, surely it is time to let people live, visit their parents in care homes, allow their kids to be educated, allow their kids to mix and engage in life - this lockdown is going to achieve absolutely nothing - not one thing but destroy thousands of more lives as a result, and yet no one is held to account - health officials are officially on the biggest power trip I have ever witnessed and the media narrative plays into their hands.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 11:40:21 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 11:35:48 AM
Given the actual deaths attributed to Covid and a lot of those deaths are not from covid with the 28 day rule, also given the societal damage to the country, the mental health implications of losing jobs, being locked up with an abuser for example, being left isolated, drinking too much, eating too much, worrying too much, having nothing to look forward to - is it a case that the cure is seriously more dangerous and harmful than the cause. To quote Spock , "Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." Captain Kirk answers, "Or the one." , here we have the needs of the few outweighing the needs of the many. Yes folk will die from this - some have, certainly not as many as reported, but when does it end, has there ever been a 100% successful vaccine against a virus, surely it is time to let people live, visit their parents in care homes, allow their kids to be educated, allow their kids to mix and engage in life - this lockdown is going to achieve absolutely nothing - not one thing but destroy thousands of more lives as a result, and yet no one is held to account - health officials are officially on the biggest power trip I have ever witnessed and the media narrative plays into their hands.

Careful now, that won't go down well with some of the ostriches here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 11:48:47 AM
what happens when the numbers increase to a level that the health system cannot handle? we have seen this in other countries. what happens to other health services as the number increase? what happens the mental health of those who lose loved ones or worst are responsible for giving covid to a loved one who dies.. 

no one on here has denied there are negative aspect of lockdown. No one thinks it a great solution but better than the alterntive taking everything into consideration. i doubt anyone is happy about it but this seems beyond your understanding its easier to start name calling...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 11:54:37 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 11:48:47 AM
what happens when the numbers increase to a level that the health system cannot handle? we have seen this in other countries. what happens to other health services as the number increase? what happens the mental health of those who lose loved ones or worst are responsible for giving covid to a loved one who dies.. 

no one on here has denied there are negative aspect of lockdown. No one thinks it a great solution but better than the alterntive taking everything into consideration. i doubt anyone is happy about it but this seems beyond your understanding its easier to start name calling...

I don't know.

It's all speculation, I don't see lockdown being a better alternative to living with the virus and that's from the data we are getting at present.

It's all ifs, buts and maybes but there are a certain cohort of posters on here who know as little as the next man who are displaying bizarre levels of arrogance with absolutely no knowledge on anything and they refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences lockdowns and excessive restrictions have on society.

I'd be very interested to see how Slovakia do with their mass testing, it's the most progressive approach I have seen any European country take yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 20, 2020, 11:57:06 AM
Dr Spock, i think I seen his name on the Barrington Declaration.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
The "let it rip" merchants seem to have forgotten the awful scenes from Italy last spring, a Country which has a very good health service which was totally overcome as Covud was ripping.
They also overlook the fact that the restrictions lowered the rate of infection.
"Health Officials on a power trip".
Such a ludicrous comment straight from the Gemma school of right wing nut job fuckwittery.
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

But sod them just "let it rip" and sure all will be fine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 12:03:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
The "let it rip" merchants seem to have forgotten the awful scenes from Italy last spring, a Country which has a very good health service which was totally overcome as Covud was ripping.
They also overlook the fact that the restrictions lowered the rate of infection.
"Health Officials on a power trip".
Such a ludicrous comment straight from the Gemma school of right wing nut job fuckwittery.
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

But sod them just "let it rip" and sure all will be fine.

What about the awful scenes in hospitals in 26 every winter during flu season where 800 patients are lying about in hospital beds?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:03:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 11:54:37 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 11:48:47 AM
what happens when the numbers increase to a level that the health system cannot handle? we have seen this in other countries. what happens to other health services as the number increase? what happens the mental health of those who lose loved ones or worst are responsible for giving covid to a loved one who dies.. 

no one on here has denied there are negative aspect of lockdown. No one thinks it a great solution but better than the alterntive taking everything into consideration. i doubt anyone is happy about it but this seems beyond your understanding its easier to start name calling...

I don't know.

It's all speculation, I don't see lockdown being a better alternative to living with the virus and that's from the data we are getting at present.

It's all ifs, buts and maybes but there are a certain cohort of posters on here who know as little as the next man who are displaying bizarre levels of arrogance with absolutely no knowledge on anything and they refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences lockdowns and excessive restrictions have on society.

I'd be very interested to see how Slovakia do with their mass testing, it's the most progressive approach I have seen any European country take yet.

you seem very happy to speculate on the outcomes of lockdown?  why is it so hard to speculate on your approach!! which also has a certain level of restrictions.. the arrogence seems to come from you not others.

the data shows increaing numbers of cases... surely you must consider the outcome of that to use your own words people "refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:10:27 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 11:48:47 AM
what happens when the numbers increase to a level that the health system cannot handle? we have seen this in other countries. what happens to other health services as the number increase? what happens the mental health of those who lose loved ones or worst are responsible for giving covid to a loved one who dies.. 

no one on here has denied there are negative aspect of lockdown. No one thinks it a great solution but better than the alterntive taking everything into consideration. i doubt anyone is happy about it but this seems beyond your understanding its easier to start name calling...

The health system in the north is not fit for purpose currently, try getting a doctors appointment, I remember their ads you don't need a pill for every ill, now ring up and they will just prescribe an antibiotic down the phone, they don't want to see anyone. My daughter was to get two teeth out under anesthetic the week of lockdown in March, it was cancelled we try and try to get her in she in awful pain, we are told that unless her face is swollen she won't be seen, she is 10. The overwhelming of the health system is a poor argument, it stopped operating in March, what about the missed cancer diagnosis, all the missed treatment over the last 7 months for different aliments, the nightingale hospitals remained empty we now live in a covid state with all health resources directed to covid, it is disproportionate to the problem, and most people are buying into the media narrative.  As pandemics go, the governments response is doing more damage than the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:15:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
The "let it rip" merchants seem to have forgotten the awful scenes from Italy last spring, a Country which has a very good health service which was totally overcome as Covud was ripping.
They also overlook the fact that the restrictions lowered the rate of infection.
"Health Officials on a power trip".
Such a ludicrous comment straight from the Gemma school of right wing nut job fuckwittery.
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

But sod them just "let it rip" and sure all will be fine.

It is a headline one would expect to see in the Sun, disproportionate and made with the only rational to get a reaction, it is quite pathetic that folk go down this route - there is no end game here - no vaccine will come to our aid, we have to learn to live with it, but you conclude that that means let it rip!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:16:51 PM
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

in relation to your daughter...March was a very differnet time and we werent as knowledgeable about covid... the aim is and should be for covid to effect other services as little as possible... this is not possible with numbers increasing... we already had wait lists etc. so health service is already strected and resources are limited and have always been limited...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:21:20 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:16:51 PM
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

in relation to your daughter...March was a very differnet time and we werent as knowledgeable about covid... the aim is and should be for covid to effect other services as little as possible... this is not possible with numbers increasing... we already had wait lists etc. so health service is already strected and resources are limited and have always been limited...

But it isn't about the number of people getting Covid, it is about the number of people needing beds and that is very low, also my point is the Health System in the North anyways is closed for most and had been since March,  this media narrative of publishing figures daily I don't understand.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:21:39 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:15:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
The "let it rip" merchants seem to have forgotten the awful scenes from Italy last spring, a Country which has a very good health service which was totally overcome as Covud was ripping.
They also overlook the fact that the restrictions lowered the rate of infection.
"Health Officials on a power trip".
Such a ludicrous comment straight from the Gemma school of right wing nut job fuckwittery.
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

But sod them just "let it rip" and sure all will be fine.

It is a headline one would expect to see in the Sun, disproportionate and made with the only rational to get a reaction, it is quite pathetic that folk go down this route - there is no end game here - no vaccine will come to our aid, we have to learn to live with it, but you conclude that that means let it rip!

we tried living with it... numbers increased again after lockdown 1 so living with it is effectively lerting it rip or herd immunity approach..

if there is a successful way to live with it i am sure we wpuld all love to hear it and so would the governments of the world.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 20, 2020, 12:24:52 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54612567

The flu yer man said.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2020, 12:26:15 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:15:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
The "let it rip" merchants seem to have forgotten the awful scenes from Italy last spring, a Country which has a very good health service which was totally overcome as Covud was ripping.
They also overlook the fact that the restrictions lowered the rate of infection.
"Health Officials on a power trip".
Such a ludicrous comment straight from the Gemma school of right wing nut job fuckwittery.
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

But sod them just "let it rip" and sure all will be fine.

It is a headline one would expect to see in the Sun, disproportionate and made with the only rational to get a reaction, it is quite pathetic that folk go down this route - there is no end game here - no vaccine will come to our aid, we have to learn to live with it, but you conclude that that means let it rip!

Can I ask why you state this? Is it based on anything?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:26:24 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:21:20 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:16:51 PM
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

in relation to your daughter...March was a very differnet time and we werent as knowledgeable about covid... the aim is and should be for covid to effect other services as little as possible... this is not possible with numbers increasing... we already had wait lists etc. so health service is already strected and resources are limited and have always been limited...

But it isn't about the number of people getting Covid, it is about the number of people needing beds and that is very low, also my point is the Health System in the North anyways is closed for most and had been since March,  this media narrative of publishing figures daily I don't understand.

the more who have it, the more that need hospital treatment, the more that who need icu.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:29:28 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:21:39 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:15:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
The "let it rip" merchants seem to have forgotten the awful scenes from Italy last spring, a Country which has a very good health service which was totally overcome as Covud was ripping.
They also overlook the fact that the restrictions lowered the rate of infection.
"Health Officials on a power trip".
Such a ludicrous comment straight from the Gemma school of right wing nut job fuckwittery.
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

But sod them just "let it rip" and sure all will be fine.

It is a headline one would expect to see in the Sun, disproportionate and made with the only rational to get a reaction, it is quite pathetic that folk go down this route - there is no end game here - no vaccine will come to our aid, we have to learn to live with it, but you conclude that that means let it rip!

we tried living with it... numbers increased again after lockdown 1 so living with it is effectively lerting it rip or herd immunity approach..

if there is a successful way to live with it i am sure we wpuld all love to hear it and so would the governments of the world.

There are several countries doing quite well as you know, living with it means there will be infections - seriously what is the end game you are searching for, if in 5 years time there is still no cure are you happy for the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of lives to be ruined with repeated lockdowns and missed cancer diagnosis, huge increase in alcohol and drug dependency, huge rise in suicides, failing relationships, family's tore apart -  to save a few hundred?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 20, 2020, 12:30:49 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 12:24:52 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54612567

The flu yer man said.

Can anyone explain to me why they use per 100k of population for these figures.

So they say in this Derry has 770 per 100k  according to the Dept of Health but 55 people in the hospital. Why just not say 55 in hospital?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 20, 2020, 12:33:22 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 20, 2020, 12:30:49 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 12:24:52 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54612567

The flu yer man said.

Can anyone explain to me why they use per 100k of population for these figures.

So they say in this Derry has 770 per 100k  according to the Dept of Health but 55 people in the hospital. Why just not say 55 in hospital?

Is this a serious question?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:33:35 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:26:24 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:21:20 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:16:51 PM
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

in relation to your daughter...March was a very differnet time and we werent as knowledgeable about covid... the aim is and should be for covid to effect other services as little as possible... this is not possible with numbers increasing... we already had wait lists etc. so health service is already strected and resources are limited and have always been limited...

But it isn't about the number of people getting Covid, it is about the number of people needing beds and that is very low, also my point is the Health System in the North anyways is closed for most and had been since March,  this media narrative of publishing figures daily I don't understand.

the more who have it, the more that need hospital treatment, the more that who need icu.....

Most won't need hospital treatment, less will need ICU, currently very few are getting any medial appointments - do you think that is proportionate?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:34:33 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 20, 2020, 12:30:49 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 12:24:52 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54612567

The flu yer man said.

Can anyone explain to me why they use per 100k of population for these figures.

So they say in this Derry has 770 per 100k  according to the Dept of Health but 55 people in the hospital. Why just not say 55 in hospital?

Doesn't sound as scary.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:37:26 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2020, 12:26:15 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:15:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
The "let it rip" merchants seem to have forgotten the awful scenes from Italy last spring, a Country which has a very good health service which was totally overcome as Covud was ripping.
They also overlook the fact that the restrictions lowered the rate of infection.
"Health Officials on a power trip".
Such a ludicrous comment straight from the Gemma school of right wing nut job fuckwittery.
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

But sod them just "let it rip" and sure all will be fine.

It is a headline one would expect to see in the Sun, disproportionate and made with the only rational to get a reaction, it is quite pathetic that folk go down this route - there is no end game here - no vaccine will come to our aid, we have to learn to live with it, but you conclude that that means let it rip!

Can I ask why you state this? Is it based on anything?

No I just made it up, having read this thread unless one is quoting a scientific officer in government pushing the we are all doomed narrative, it would seem just making things up for the posters here would have as much weight as quoting scientific evidence not from a government adviser.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:46:48 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:33:35 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:26:24 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:21:20 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:16:51 PM
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

in relation to your daughter...March was a very differnet time and we werent as knowledgeable about covid... the aim is and should be for covid to effect other services as little as possible... this is not possible with numbers increasing... we already had wait lists etc. so health service is already strected and resources are limited and have always been limited...

But it isn't about the number of people getting Covid, it is about the number of people needing beds and that is very low, also my point is the Health System in the North anyways is closed for most and had been since March,  this media narrative of publishing figures daily I don't understand.

the more who have it, the more that need hospital treatment, the more that who need icu.....

Most won't need hospital treatment, less will need ICU, currently very few are getting any medial appointments - do you think that is proportionate?

but the numbers are increasing and will increase to a level where it cannot handle them or any other services if we continue to try and live with covid as we previously did

if the health service are not getting medical apts aove and beyond what is required for covid and expected covid then that is a failure on the health service not of lockdown. Lockdown reduces mumbers  of cases, numbers requiring hosilpital and numbers in icu.. it is then up to the health service to use that capacity appropriately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on October 20, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 20, 2020, 10:58:16 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 20, 2020, 10:24:34 AM
Jeez Angelo you must be one of the stupidest people ever on this board, and that is saying something.

Jesus lads, this is definitely the most anger filled thread in here in some time.

Angelo has some points like everyone else, some of the stuff he says is probably going to turn out true over the course of time. Some of the stuff, will be wrong.

Everyone is guessing at this stage still really, scarily.

Why are you quoting me when you said anger filled thread?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 20, 2020, 12:56:24 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2020, 12:26:15 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:15:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
The "let it rip" merchants seem to have forgotten the awful scenes from Italy last spring, a Country which has a very good health service which was totally overcome as Covud was ripping.
They also overlook the fact that the restrictions lowered the rate of infection.
"Health Officials on a power trip".
Such a ludicrous comment straight from the Gemma school of right wing nut job fuckwittery.
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

But sod them just "let it rip" and sure all will be fine.

It is a headline one would expect to see in the Sun, disproportionate and made with the only rational to get a reaction, it is quite pathetic that folk go down this route - there is no end game here - no vaccine will come to our aid, we have to learn to live with it, but you conclude that that means let it rip!

Can I ask why you state this? Is it based on anything?

This is an oddity of those opposed to any efforts to restrict COVID transmission.

Without very much at all to substantiate the prediction, they seem to have unilaterally decided that a vaccine will not be forthcoming. This idea is at the core of their argument.

There will not be a vaccine, so the delaying tactics of a lockdown are pointless, and that we need to transition to the new COVID world immediately.

Most with a semblance of wit can understand that this is an unreasonably position. Only six months of work has gone into developing a vaccine, and we have a lukewarm promise of one for next year. Even if none ever arrives, right now it is plainly much too early to give up on the prospect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 12:57:18 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:03:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 11:54:37 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 11:48:47 AM
what happens when the numbers increase to a level that the health system cannot handle? we have seen this in other countries. what happens to other health services as the number increase? what happens the mental health of those who lose loved ones or worst are responsible for giving covid to a loved one who dies.. 

no one on here has denied there are negative aspect of lockdown. No one thinks it a great solution but better than the alterntive taking everything into consideration. i doubt anyone is happy about it but this seems beyond your understanding its easier to start name calling...

I don't know.

It's all speculation, I don't see lockdown being a better alternative to living with the virus and that's from the data we are getting at present.

It's all ifs, buts and maybes but there are a certain cohort of posters on here who know as little as the next man who are displaying bizarre levels of arrogance with absolutely no knowledge on anything and they refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences lockdowns and excessive restrictions have on society.

I'd be very interested to see how Slovakia do with their mass testing, it's the most progressive approach I have seen any European country take yet.

you seem very happy to speculate on the outcomes of lockdown?  why is it so hard to speculate on your approach!! which also has a certain level of restrictions.. the arrogence seems to come from you not others.

the data shows increaing numbers of cases... surely you must consider the outcome of that to use your own words people "refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences"

Very happy to speculate?

Well done on the most ironic comment on the thread. We are all speculating, all of us, by contending anything I say, you are by your very nature speculating. Saying domestic violence incidents rise and mental health issues are compounded by lockdowns is not speculation though, there is data there to back that assertion up, we will only know to what level in time. It is my view that the consequences of lockdowns and excessive restrictions do more harm than good, it is my view that we are getting too consumed by Covid that we cannot see the consequences of the measure we are taking to combat Covid. And all of us, across all sides are speculating.

Look at all the expert modellers predicting millions of deaths in the UK by x amount of time, how wrong have some of these projections been? And what did those experts do? They speculated, none of us have a golden ball that will tell us what happens so it's an absolute ridiculous contention to make.

The data shows increasing number of cases AND decreasing numbers of fatalties relative to those cases, dropping by double digit multiples all across Europe at present when we contrast with the first wave - that is what the CURRENT data is telling us. I'm looking at the big picture and that's why I'm leaning towards lockdowns and excessive restrictions causing a lot more harm than good. You seem to be solely focusing on Covid.

You've never addressed this question yet. At which point does Covid become an acceptable risk? We have acceptable risk with flu, every year we deem an acceptable level of death, healthcare consumption, health impacts with it and we live with it. At what level do we have to get with Covid before it becomes acceptable? Can you please answer this question? I've done you the courtesy of answering the same question you've posed to me on about 6 different occasions, can you now do me the same?


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:59:23 PM
Are some posters totally THICK?
The more people get Covid the more will need hospitalisation and the more will need ICU beds.
That means less beds for other serious illnesses.

If 1,000 people get it around 50 need hospitalisation with approx 5 in ICU these days.
If 10,000 people get it.......
If 100,000 get it....

In the absence of a vaccine the only method of limiting the spread has been restrictions on gatherings and movement etc.
I'm still waiting to hear what magic bullet  those who oppose restrictions have and why they're not sharing it with Governments.

All I'm hearing is "let it rip"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:59:34 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:46:48 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:33:35 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:26:24 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:21:20 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:16:51 PM
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

in relation to your daughter...March was a very differnet time and we werent as knowledgeable about covid... the aim is and should be for covid to effect other services as little as possible... this is not possible with numbers increasing... we already had wait lists etc. so health service is already strected and resources are limited and have always been limited...

But it isn't about the number of people getting Covid, it is about the number of people needing beds and that is very low, also my point is the Health System in the North anyways is closed for most and had been since March,  this media narrative of publishing figures daily I don't understand.

the more who have it, the more that need hospital treatment, the more that who need icu.....

Most won't need hospital treatment, less will need ICU, currently very few are getting any medial appointments - do you think that is proportionate?

but the numbers are increasing and will increase to a level where it cannot handle them or any other services if we continue to try and live with covid as we previously did

if the health service are not getting medical apts aove and beyond what is required for covid and expected covid then that is a failure on the health service not of lockdown. Lockdown reduces mumbers  of cases, numbers requiring hosilpital and numbers in icu.. it is then up to the health service to use that capacity appropriately.

Are we saying then all that matters currently is covid, that sounds very disproportionate, my friend's 32 week old daughter had high temp and green stuff running out of her ear, the doctors refused to see the child until she got a covid test, is that proportionate, 32 weeks getting swabbed?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:00:21 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 12:24:52 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54612567

The flu yer man said.

Yes the flu.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/flu-and-bed-shortage-responsible-for-record-trolley-numbers-says-taoiseach-1.4131634
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 01:01:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:59:23 PM
Are some posters totally THICK?
The more people get Covid the more will need hospitalisation and the more will need ICU beds.
That means less beds for other serious illnesses.

If 1,000 people get it around 50 need hospitalisation with approx 5 in ICU these days.
If 10,000 people get it.......
If 100,000 get it....

In the absence of a vaccine the only method of limiting the spread has been restrictions on gatherings and movement etc.
I'm still waiting to hear what magic bullet  those who oppose restrictions have and why they're not sharing it with Governments.

All I'm hearing is "let it rip"

You cover yourself in glory - call fellow posters THICK then proceed to make figures up.  Can you please tell me your end game - I will not post all the societal effects lockdowns are having as you will just ignore them again, where and when is this mystery vaccine coming from.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 20, 2020, 01:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:00:21 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 12:24:52 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54612567

The flu yer man said.

Yes the flu.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/flu-and-bed-shortage-responsible-for-record-trolley-numbers-says-taoiseach-1.4131634

I must have missed the masks and hand sanitiser in the shops last January.  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:05:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:21:39 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:15:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
The "let it rip" merchants seem to have forgotten the awful scenes from Italy last spring, a Country which has a very good health service which was totally overcome as Covud was ripping.
They also overlook the fact that the restrictions lowered the rate of infection.
"Health Officials on a power trip".
Such a ludicrous comment straight from the Gemma school of right wing nut job fuckwittery.
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

But sod them just "let it rip" and sure all will be fine.

It is a headline one would expect to see in the Sun, disproportionate and made with the only rational to get a reaction, it is quite pathetic that folk go down this route - there is no end game here - no vaccine will come to our aid, we have to learn to live with it, but you conclude that that means let it rip!

we tried living with it... numbers increased again after lockdown 1 so living with it is effectively lerting it rip or herd immunity approach..

if there is a successful way to live with it i am sure we wpuld all love to hear it and so would the governments of the world.

We tried living with it?

Cases increased.

0.11 are in ICU.

Sweden are living with it at present. Their 14 day incidence rate is currently much lower than the rest of Europe.

What happens next time we come out of lockdown? Numbers surge back up again and we lock back down again, how on earth is this a viable short term solution. Crossing our fingers and hoping a vaccine comes is not a viable solution, it's absolutely insane.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 01:05:32 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 01:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:00:21 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 12:24:52 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54612567

The flu yer man said.

Yes the flu.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/flu-and-bed-shortage-responsible-for-record-trolley-numbers-says-taoiseach-1.4131634

I must have missed the masks and hand sanitiser in the shops last January.  ::)

But yet folk went to work in January with the flu and were happy to spread it around, no one cared of the consequences as flu cases and deaths weren't reported hourly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:06:31 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 01:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:00:21 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 12:24:52 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54612567

The flu yer man said.

Yes the flu.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/flu-and-bed-shortage-responsible-for-record-trolley-numbers-says-taoiseach-1.4131634

I must have missed the masks and hand sanitiser in the shops last January.  ::)

I must have missed the lockdowns and restrictive measures in January when the season flu was overwhelming the health service. Just as long as its not Covid doing it, right?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on October 20, 2020, 01:07:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:03:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 11:54:37 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 11:48:47 AM
what happens when the numbers increase to a level that the health system cannot handle? we have seen this in other countries. what happens to other health services as the number increase? what happens the mental health of those who lose loved ones or worst are responsible for giving covid to a loved one who dies.. 

no one on here has denied there are negative aspect of lockdown. No one thinks it a great solution but better than the alterntive taking everything into consideration. i doubt anyone is happy about it but this seems beyond your understanding its easier to start name calling...

I don't know.

It's all speculation, I don't see lockdown being a better alternative to living with the virus and that's from the data we are getting at present.

It's all ifs, buts and maybes but there are a certain cohort of posters on here who know as little as the next man who are displaying bizarre levels of arrogance with absolutely no knowledge on anything and they refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences lockdowns and excessive restrictions have on society.

I'd be very interested to see how Slovakia do with their mass testing, it's the most progressive approach I have seen any European country take yet.

you seem very happy to speculate on the outcomes of lockdown?  why is it so hard to speculate on your approach!! which also has a certain level of restrictions.. the arrogence seems to come from you not others.

the data shows increaing numbers of cases... surely you must consider the outcome of that to use your own words people "refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences"

Is it not also worth looking at data. Yes, cases are growing at an alarming rate but the death rate is not following the same trajectory as it did in March. We are testing many many more people as anyone who presents with normal cold or flu symptoms is getting a test. All we are being shown by the experts is the amount of cases. Maybe there is more data that we are not seeing. But if there is why is it not being put out on the table. You have to trawl through websites or twitter to get it. So what I know is that cases are high, testing is way up and deaths are still relatively low and have been for weeks. One potential is that there is a longer lag on deaths behind cases than before, another is that the virus is not getting to the old and vulnerable that it reached before and yet another is that it is not as potent for some reason this winter. I cant understand why some of these things are not being discussed and to even suggest discussing them brings a roaring mob upon you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 01:09:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 20, 2020, 01:07:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:03:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 11:54:37 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 11:48:47 AM
what happens when the numbers increase to a level that the health system cannot handle? we have seen this in other countries. what happens to other health services as the number increase? what happens the mental health of those who lose loved ones or worst are responsible for giving covid to a loved one who dies.. 

no one on here has denied there are negative aspect of lockdown. No one thinks it a great solution but better than the alterntive taking everything into consideration. i doubt anyone is happy about it but this seems beyond your understanding its easier to start name calling...

I don't know.

It's all speculation, I don't see lockdown being a better alternative to living with the virus and that's from the data we are getting at present.

It's all ifs, buts and maybes but there are a certain cohort of posters on here who know as little as the next man who are displaying bizarre levels of arrogance with absolutely no knowledge on anything and they refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences lockdowns and excessive restrictions have on society.

I'd be very interested to see how Slovakia do with their mass testing, it's the most progressive approach I have seen any European country take yet.

you seem very happy to speculate on the outcomes of lockdown?  why is it so hard to speculate on your approach!! which also has a certain level of restrictions.. the arrogence seems to come from you not others.

the data shows increaing numbers of cases... surely you must consider the outcome of that to use your own words people "refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences"

Is it not also worth looking at data. Yes, cases are growing at an alarming rate but the death rate is not following the same trajectory as it did in March. We are testing many many more people as anyone who presents with normal cold or flu symptoms is getting a test. All we are being shown by the experts is the amount of cases. Maybe there is more data that we are not seeing. But if there is why is it not being put out on the table. You have to trawl through websites or twitter to get it. So what I know is that cases are high, testing is way up and deaths are still relatively low and have been for weeks. One potential is that there is a longer lag on deaths behind cases than before, another is that the virus is not getting to the old and vulnerable that it reached before and yet another is that it is not as potent for some reason this winter. I cant understand why some of these things are not being discussed and to even suggest discussing them brings a roaring mob upon you.

Most are hung up on the media narrative, they are being conditioned to believe and as such have every right in their opinion to attack rather than debate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:10:52 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 01:05:32 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 01:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:00:21 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 12:24:52 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54612567

The flu yer man said.

Yes the flu.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/flu-and-bed-shortage-responsible-for-record-trolley-numbers-says-taoiseach-1.4131634

I must have missed the masks and hand sanitiser in the shops last January.  ::)

But yet folk went to work in January with the flu and were happy to spread it around, no one cared of the consequences as flu cases and deaths weren't reported hourly.

The message from these people is that it's ok to die from flu, it's not ok to die from Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:13:23 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 20, 2020, 01:07:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:03:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 11:54:37 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 11:48:47 AM
what happens when the numbers increase to a level that the health system cannot handle? we have seen this in other countries. what happens to other health services as the number increase? what happens the mental health of those who lose loved ones or worst are responsible for giving covid to a loved one who dies.. 

no one on here has denied there are negative aspect of lockdown. No one thinks it a great solution but better than the alterntive taking everything into consideration. i doubt anyone is happy about it but this seems beyond your understanding its easier to start name calling...

I don't know.

It's all speculation, I don't see lockdown being a better alternative to living with the virus and that's from the data we are getting at present.

It's all ifs, buts and maybes but there are a certain cohort of posters on here who know as little as the next man who are displaying bizarre levels of arrogance with absolutely no knowledge on anything and they refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences lockdowns and excessive restrictions have on society.

I'd be very interested to see how Slovakia do with their mass testing, it's the most progressive approach I have seen any European country take yet.

you seem very happy to speculate on the outcomes of lockdown?  why is it so hard to speculate on your approach!! which also has a certain level of restrictions.. the arrogence seems to come from you not others.

the data shows increaing numbers of cases... surely you must consider the outcome of that to use your own words people "refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences"

Is it not also worth looking at data. Yes, cases are growing at an alarming rate but the death rate is not following the same trajectory as it did in March. We are testing many many more people as anyone who presents with normal cold or flu symptoms is getting a test. All we are being shown by the experts is the amount of cases. Maybe there is more data that we are not seeing. But if there is why is it not being put out on the table. You have to trawl through websites or twitter to get it. So what I know is that cases are high, testing is way up and deaths are still relatively low and have been for weeks. One potential is that there is a longer lag on deaths behind cases than before, another is that the virus is not getting to the old and vulnerable that it reached before and yet another is that it is not as potent for some reason this winter. I cant understand why some of these things are not being discussed and to even suggest discussing them brings a roaring mob upon you.

Exactly, for daring to even offer an alternative opinion based on current data available you have a horde Screaming Marys accusing you of wanting people to die along with other vulgar expletives.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 20, 2020, 01:14:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:06:31 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 01:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:00:21 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 12:24:52 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54612567

The flu yer man said.

Yes the flu.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/flu-and-bed-shortage-responsible-for-record-trolley-numbers-says-taoiseach-1.4131634

I must have missed the masks and hand sanitiser in the shops last January.  ::)

I must have missed the lockdowns and restrictive measures in January when the season flu was overwhelming the health service. Just as long as its not Covid doing it, right?

Not for the first time you completely fail to understand.

There's a stereotype of the big aul thick Tyrone man that loves Celtic, the Ra and a good fight, but has his brains in his arse.

Always thought it was unfair.

I see it now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on October 20, 2020, 01:17:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 12:57:18 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:03:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 11:54:37 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 11:48:47 AM
what happens when the numbers increase to a level that the health system cannot handle? we have seen this in other countries. what happens to other health services as the number increase? what happens the mental health of those who lose loved ones or worst are responsible for giving covid to a loved one who dies.. 

no one on here has denied there are negative aspect of lockdown. No one thinks it a great solution but better than the alterntive taking everything into consideration. i doubt anyone is happy about it but this seems beyond your understanding its easier to start name calling...

I don't know.

It's all speculation, I don't see lockdown being a better alternative to living with the virus and that's from the data we are getting at present.

It's all ifs, buts and maybes but there are a certain cohort of posters on here who know as little as the next man who are displaying bizarre levels of arrogance with absolutely no knowledge on anything and they refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences lockdowns and excessive restrictions have on society.

I'd be very interested to see how Slovakia do with their mass testing, it's the most progressive approach I have seen any European country take yet.

you seem very happy to speculate on the outcomes of lockdown?  why is it so hard to speculate on your approach!! which also has a certain level of restrictions.. the arrogence seems to come from you not others.

the data shows increaing numbers of cases... surely you must consider the outcome of that to use your own words people "refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences"

Very happy to speculate?

Well done on the most ironic comment on the thread. We are all speculating, all of us, by contending anything I say, you are by your very nature speculating. Saying domestic violence incidents rise and mental health issues are compounded by lockdowns is not speculation though, there is data there to back that assertion up, we will only know to what level in time. It is my view that the consequences of lockdowns and excessive restrictions do more harm than good, it is my view that we are getting too consumed by Covid that we cannot see the consequences of the measure we are taking to combat Covid. And all of us, across all sides are speculating.

Look at all the expert modellers predicting millions of deaths in the UK by x amount of time, how wrong have some of these projections been? And what did those experts do? They speculated, none of us have a golden ball that will tell us what happens so it's an absolute ridiculous contention to make.

The data shows increasing number of cases AND decreasing numbers of fatalties relative to those cases, dropping by double digit multiples all across Europe at present when we contrast with the first wave - that is what the CURRENT data is telling us. I'm looking at the big picture and that's why I'm leaning towards lockdowns and excessive restrictions causing a lot more harm than good. You seem to be solely focusing on Covid.

You've never addressed this question yet. At which point does Covid become an acceptable risk? We have acceptable risk with flu, every year we deem an acceptable level of death, healthcare consumption, health impacts with it and we live with it. At what level do we have to get with Covid before it becomes acceptable? Can you please answer this question? I've done you the courtesy of answering the same question you've posed to me on about 6 different occasions, can you now do me the same?

It's quite likely that the expert modellers would've been right but for lockdown measures, combined with masks and social distancing. The fatality rate falling can easily be explained by the fact that it's mainly younger people who are getting infected now and their immune system is better able to fight off the virus. At the start a good number of older people were exposed to the virus and a large number sadly died.

The danger of not having lockdowns is that the NHS becomes overwhelmed meaning that sick people (with all illnesses, not just covid) can't be treated. That will inevitably happen if the virus is allowed to spread unchecked. The aim of the lockdowns and other measures is mainly to ensure the hospitals don't have the situations we saw in March in Spain and Italy where patients were lying on hospital floors because all beds were taken.

Another important point about the virus is that it's really not like the flu. A lot of people are trying to minimise the risk by saying it's just a mild flu. There are hundreds of thousands of people around the world suffering from "long covid". I know of 3 people who have terrible symptoms 6 months after they contracted the virus with no signs of these symptoms easing. None of the 3 had a particularly bad dose initially and weren't in hospital. I also know a cardiologist who works in the RVH and ha says there are quite a number of people coming into hospital with severe heart problems 4 or 5 months after getting covid. These were people who had mild symptoms or were asymptomatic. These aren't just anecdotes, I've also seen lots of reports of these issues in the papers. No one knows the long term effects of covid, even those who think they've got over it quickly may have problems waiting for them down the line.

The mood music around a vaccine is very good,  it's quite likely we'll have one for February/March of 2021. Short lockdowns are a necessary evil until then to ensure our NHS can cope.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:21:48 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 01:14:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:06:31 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 01:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:00:21 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 12:24:52 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54612567

The flu yer man said.

Yes the flu.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/flu-and-bed-shortage-responsible-for-record-trolley-numbers-says-taoiseach-1.4131634

I must have missed the masks and hand sanitiser in the shops last January.  ::)

I must have missed the lockdowns and restrictive measures in January when the season flu was overwhelming the health service. Just as long as its not Covid doing it, right?

Not for the first time you completely fail to understand.

There's a stereotype of the big aul thick Tyrone man that loves Celtic, the Ra and a good fight, but has his brains in his arse.

Always thought it was unfair.

I see it now.

Not for the first time when the debate requires a bit of substance you resort to banal snide insults.

You just lack any conviction in yourself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 01:22:08 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 01:17:24 PM


The danger of not having lockdowns is that the NHS becomes overwhelmed meaning that sick people (with all illnesses, not just covid) can't be treated. That will inevitably happen if the virus is allowed to spread unchecked. The aim of the lockdowns and other measures is mainly to ensure the hospitals don't have the situations we saw in March in Spain and Italy where patients were lying on hospital floors because all beds were taken.


They aren't been treated now!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 01:23:07 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 01:17:24 PM
No one knows the long term effects of covid, even those who think they've got over it quickly may have problems waiting for them down the line.

The mood music around a vaccine is very good,  it's quite likely we'll have one for February/March of 2021. Short lockdowns are a necessary evil until then to ensure our NHS can cope.

You would be happy to line up for this in March, a year after they started looking - by the way it won't happen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 20, 2020, 01:25:09 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 01:23:07 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 01:17:24 PM
No one knows the long term effects of covid, even those who think they've got over it quickly may have problems waiting for them down the line.

The mood music around a vaccine is very good,  it's quite likely we'll have one for February/March of 2021. Short lockdowns are a necessary evil until then to ensure our NHS can cope.

You would be happy to line up for this in March, a year after they started looking - by the way it won't happen.

What is your PhD in?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 20, 2020, 01:26:14 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 12:24:52 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54612567

The flu yer man said.

The 55 covid patients is now 72 and ICU currently has its highest number since the pandemic started.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:26:44 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 01:17:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 12:57:18 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:03:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 11:54:37 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 11:48:47 AM
what happens when the numbers increase to a level that the health system cannot handle? we have seen this in other countries. what happens to other health services as the number increase? what happens the mental health of those who lose loved ones or worst are responsible for giving covid to a loved one who dies.. 

no one on here has denied there are negative aspect of lockdown. No one thinks it a great solution but better than the alterntive taking everything into consideration. i doubt anyone is happy about it but this seems beyond your understanding its easier to start name calling...

I don't know.

It's all speculation, I don't see lockdown being a better alternative to living with the virus and that's from the data we are getting at present.

It's all ifs, buts and maybes but there are a certain cohort of posters on here who know as little as the next man who are displaying bizarre levels of arrogance with absolutely no knowledge on anything and they refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences lockdowns and excessive restrictions have on society.

I'd be very interested to see how Slovakia do with their mass testing, it's the most progressive approach I have seen any European country take yet.

you seem very happy to speculate on the outcomes of lockdown?  why is it so hard to speculate on your approach!! which also has a certain level of restrictions.. the arrogence seems to come from you not others.

the data shows increaing numbers of cases... surely you must consider the outcome of that to use your own words people "refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences"

Very happy to speculate?

Well done on the most ironic comment on the thread. We are all speculating, all of us, by contending anything I say, you are by your very nature speculating. Saying domestic violence incidents rise and mental health issues are compounded by lockdowns is not speculation though, there is data there to back that assertion up, we will only know to what level in time. It is my view that the consequences of lockdowns and excessive restrictions do more harm than good, it is my view that we are getting too consumed by Covid that we cannot see the consequences of the measure we are taking to combat Covid. And all of us, across all sides are speculating.

Look at all the expert modellers predicting millions of deaths in the UK by x amount of time, how wrong have some of these projections been? And what did those experts do? They speculated, none of us have a golden ball that will tell us what happens so it's an absolute ridiculous contention to make.

The data shows increasing number of cases AND decreasing numbers of fatalties relative to those cases, dropping by double digit multiples all across Europe at present when we contrast with the first wave - that is what the CURRENT data is telling us. I'm looking at the big picture and that's why I'm leaning towards lockdowns and excessive restrictions causing a lot more harm than good. You seem to be solely focusing on Covid.

You've never addressed this question yet. At which point does Covid become an acceptable risk? We have acceptable risk with flu, every year we deem an acceptable level of death, healthcare consumption, health impacts with it and we live with it. At what level do we have to get with Covid before it becomes acceptable? Can you please answer this question? I've done you the courtesy of answering the same question you've posed to me on about 6 different occasions, can you now do me the same?

It's quite likely that the expert modellers would've been right but for lockdown measures, combined with masks and social distancing. The fatality rate falling can easily be explained by the fact that it's mainly younger people who are getting infected now and their immune system is better able to fight off the virus. At the start a good number of older people were exposed to the virus and a large number sadly died.

The danger of not having lockdowns is that the NHS becomes overwhelmed meaning that sick people (with all illnesses, not just covid) can't be treated. That will inevitably happen if the virus is allowed to spread unchecked. The aim of the lockdowns and other measures is mainly to ensure the hospitals don't have the situations we saw in March in Spain and Italy where patients were lying on hospital floors because all beds were taken.

Another important point about the virus is that it's really not like the flu. A lot of people are trying to minimise the risk by saying it's just a mild flu. There are hundreds of thousands of people around the world suffering from "long covid". I know of 3 people who have terrible symptoms 6 months after they contracted the virus with no signs of these symptoms easing. None of the 3 had a particularly bad dose initially and weren't in hospital. I also know a cardiologist who works in the RVH and ha says there are quite a number of people coming into hospital with severe heart problems 4 or 5 months after getting covid. These were people who had mild symptoms or were asymptomatic. These aren't just anecdotes, I've also seen lots of reports of these issues in the papers. No one knows the long term effects of covid, even those who think they've got over it quickly may have problems waiting for them down the line.

The mood music around a vaccine is very good,  it's quite likely we'll have one for February/March of 2021. Short lockdowns are a necessary evil until then to ensure our NHS can cope.

On what basis is it quite likely right?

The thing about March and April is an outlier an anomaly. Spain have had nearly 3 times the no of positive cases in the past 2 months than they had back in March and April and the fatality rate per cases has fallen in double digit multiples - why is that? Surely that deserves to be highlighted and examined and the current data should be the one guiding our decisions rather than anomalies 6/7 months ago.

The mood around the vaccine. That's a mood - nothing is concrete but I'll put it to you this way. A vaccine comes out next year - I have two options:

a) Take a vaccine rushed through production stage, with very limited test results and no basis of potential side effects
b) Take my chances with a virus that probably presents nothing more that mild symptoms for 99.5% of my demograph
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:27:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2020, 01:25:09 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 01:23:07 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 01:17:24 PM
No one knows the long term effects of covid, even those who think they've got over it quickly may have problems waiting for them down the line.

The mood music around a vaccine is very good,  it's quite likely we'll have one for February/March of 2021. Short lockdowns are a necessary evil until then to ensure our NHS can cope.

You would be happy to line up for this in March, a year after they started looking - by the way it won't happen.

What is your PhD in?

What's yours in?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on October 20, 2020, 01:27:52 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 01:17:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 12:57:18 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:03:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 11:54:37 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 11:48:47 AM
what happens when the numbers increase to a level that the health system cannot handle? we have seen this in other countries. what happens to other health services as the number increase? what happens the mental health of those who lose loved ones or worst are responsible for giving covid to a loved one who dies.. 

no one on here has denied there are negative aspect of lockdown. No one thinks it a great solution but better than the alterntive taking everything into consideration. i doubt anyone is happy about it but this seems beyond your understanding its easier to start name calling...

I don't know.

It's all speculation, I don't see lockdown being a better alternative to living with the virus and that's from the data we are getting at present.

It's all ifs, buts and maybes but there are a certain cohort of posters on here who know as little as the next man who are displaying bizarre levels of arrogance with absolutely no knowledge on anything and they refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences lockdowns and excessive restrictions have on society.

I'd be very interested to see how Slovakia do with their mass testing, it's the most progressive approach I have seen any European country take yet.

you seem very happy to speculate on the outcomes of lockdown?  why is it so hard to speculate on your approach!! which also has a certain level of restrictions.. the arrogence seems to come from you not others.

the data shows increaing numbers of cases... surely you must consider the outcome of that to use your own words people "refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences"

Very happy to speculate?

Well done on the most ironic comment on the thread. We are all speculating, all of us, by contending anything I say, you are by your very nature speculating. Saying domestic violence incidents rise and mental health issues are compounded by lockdowns is not speculation though, there is data there to back that assertion up, we will only know to what level in time. It is my view that the consequences of lockdowns and excessive restrictions do more harm than good, it is my view that we are getting too consumed by Covid that we cannot see the consequences of the measure we are taking to combat Covid. And all of us, across all sides are speculating.

Look at all the expert modellers predicting millions of deaths in the UK by x amount of time, how wrong have some of these projections been? And what did those experts do? They speculated, none of us have a golden ball that will tell us what happens so it's an absolute ridiculous contention to make.

The data shows increasing number of cases AND decreasing numbers of fatalties relative to those cases, dropping by double digit multiples all across Europe at present when we contrast with the first wave - that is what the CURRENT data is telling us. I'm looking at the big picture and that's why I'm leaning towards lockdowns and excessive restrictions causing a lot more harm than good. You seem to be solely focusing on Covid.

You've never addressed this question yet. At which point does Covid become an acceptable risk? We have acceptable risk with flu, every year we deem an acceptable level of death, healthcare consumption, health impacts with it and we live with it. At what level do we have to get with Covid before it becomes acceptable? Can you please answer this question? I've done you the courtesy of answering the same question you've posed to me on about 6 different occasions, can you now do me the same?

It's quite likely that the expert modellers would've been right but for lockdown measures, combined with masks and social distancing. The fatality rate falling can easily be explained by the fact that it's mainly younger people who are getting infected now and their immune system is better able to fight off the virus. At the start a good number of older people were exposed to the virus and a large number sadly died.

The danger of not having lockdowns is that the NHS becomes overwhelmed meaning that sick people (with all illnesses, not just covid) can't be treated. That will inevitably happen if the virus is allowed to spread unchecked. The aim of the lockdowns and other measures is mainly to ensure the hospitals don't have the situations we saw in March in Spain and Italy where patients were lying on hospital floors because all beds were taken.

Another important point about the virus is that it's really not like the flu. A lot of people are trying to minimise the risk by saying it's just a mild flu. There are hundreds of thousands of people around the world suffering from "long covid". I know of 3 people who have terrible symptoms 6 months after they contracted the virus with no signs of these symptoms easing. None of the 3 had a particularly bad dose initially and weren't in hospital. I also know a cardiologist who works in the RVH and ha says there are quite a number of people coming into hospital with severe heart problems 4 or 5 months after getting covid. These were people who had mild symptoms or were asymptomatic. These aren't just anecdotes, I've also seen lots of reports of these issues in the papers. No one knows the long term effects of covid, even those who think they've got over it quickly may have problems waiting for them down the line.

The mood music around a vaccine is very good,  it's quite likely we'll have one for February/March of 2021. Short lockdowns are a necessary evil until then to ensure our NHS can cope.

Sid, that (in bold) is one of the possibilities I mentioned. Where is the data though to support your assertion that it is easily explained. If Tony Holohan or someone else published such data it would certainly help me, and I am sure others, to accept what they are saying. But right now that's just a theory what you wrote, not a fact. The reason I don't neccessarily believe Tony Holohan just because he is an expert and on TV each night is due to his actions in the Smear Test Scandal. I don't find him a trustworthy person as default.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on October 20, 2020, 01:29:30 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 01:22:08 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 01:17:24 PM


The danger of not having lockdowns is that the NHS becomes overwhelmed meaning that sick people (with all illnesses, not just covid) can't be treated. That will inevitably happen if the virus is allowed to spread unchecked. The aim of the lockdowns and other measures is mainly to ensure the hospitals don't have the situations we saw in March in Spain and Italy where patients were lying on hospital floors because all beds were taken.


They aren't been treated now!

And allowing covid to go unchecked is only going to make that way, way worse. I would definitely take the vaccine if all the safety checks have been done and they say it's effective. They're using technology for the virus which has been used before and has been shown to be extremely safe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 20, 2020, 01:33:47 PM
"Hey look kids, there's Big Ben".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2020, 01:38:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:26:44 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 01:17:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 12:57:18 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:03:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 11:54:37 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 11:48:47 AM
what happens when the numbers increase to a level that the health system cannot handle? we have seen this in other countries. what happens to other health services as the number increase? what happens the mental health of those who lose loved ones or worst are responsible for giving covid to a loved one who dies.. 

no one on here has denied there are negative aspect of lockdown. No one thinks it a great solution but better than the alterntive taking everything into consideration. i doubt anyone is happy about it but this seems beyond your understanding its easier to start name calling...

I don't know.

It's all speculation, I don't see lockdown being a better alternative to living with the virus and that's from the data we are getting at present.

It's all ifs, buts and maybes but there are a certain cohort of posters on here who know as little as the next man who are displaying bizarre levels of arrogance with absolutely no knowledge on anything and they refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences lockdowns and excessive restrictions have on society.

I'd be very interested to see how Slovakia do with their mass testing, it's the most progressive approach I have seen any European country take yet.

you seem very happy to speculate on the outcomes of lockdown?  why is it so hard to speculate on your approach!! which also has a certain level of restrictions.. the arrogence seems to come from you not others.

the data shows increaing numbers of cases... surely you must consider the outcome of that to use your own words people "refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences"

Very happy to speculate?

Well done on the most ironic comment on the thread. We are all speculating, all of us, by contending anything I say, you are by your very nature speculating. Saying domestic violence incidents rise and mental health issues are compounded by lockdowns is not speculation though, there is data there to back that assertion up, we will only know to what level in time. It is my view that the consequences of lockdowns and excessive restrictions do more harm than good, it is my view that we are getting too consumed by Covid that we cannot see the consequences of the measure we are taking to combat Covid. And all of us, across all sides are speculating.

Look at all the expert modellers predicting millions of deaths in the UK by x amount of time, how wrong have some of these projections been? And what did those experts do? They speculated, none of us have a golden ball that will tell us what happens so it's an absolute ridiculous contention to make.

The data shows increasing number of cases AND decreasing numbers of fatalties relative to those cases, dropping by double digit multiples all across Europe at present when we contrast with the first wave - that is what the CURRENT data is telling us. I'm looking at the big picture and that's why I'm leaning towards lockdowns and excessive restrictions causing a lot more harm than good. You seem to be solely focusing on Covid.

You've never addressed this question yet. At which point does Covid become an acceptable risk? We have acceptable risk with flu, every year we deem an acceptable level of death, healthcare consumption, health impacts with it and we live with it. At what level do we have to get with Covid before it becomes acceptable? Can you please answer this question? I've done you the courtesy of answering the same question you've posed to me on about 6 different occasions, can you now do me the same?

It's quite likely that the expert modellers would've been right but for lockdown measures, combined with masks and social distancing. The fatality rate falling can easily be explained by the fact that it's mainly younger people who are getting infected now and their immune system is better able to fight off the virus. At the start a good number of older people were exposed to the virus and a large number sadly died.

The danger of not having lockdowns is that the NHS becomes overwhelmed meaning that sick people (with all illnesses, not just covid) can't be treated. That will inevitably happen if the virus is allowed to spread unchecked. The aim of the lockdowns and other measures is mainly to ensure the hospitals don't have the situations we saw in March in Spain and Italy where patients were lying on hospital floors because all beds were taken.

Another important point about the virus is that it's really not like the flu. A lot of people are trying to minimise the risk by saying it's just a mild flu. There are hundreds of thousands of people around the world suffering from "long covid". I know of 3 people who have terrible symptoms 6 months after they contracted the virus with no signs of these symptoms easing. None of the 3 had a particularly bad dose initially and weren't in hospital. I also know a cardiologist who works in the RVH and ha says there are quite a number of people coming into hospital with severe heart problems 4 or 5 months after getting covid. These were people who had mild symptoms or were asymptomatic. These aren't just anecdotes, I've also seen lots of reports of these issues in the papers. No one knows the long term effects of covid, even those who think they've got over it quickly may have problems waiting for them down the line.

The mood music around a vaccine is very good,  it's quite likely we'll have one for February/March of 2021. Short lockdowns are a necessary evil until then to ensure our NHS can cope.

On what basis is it quite likely right?

The thing about March and April is an outlier an anomaly. Spain have had nearly 3 times the no of positive cases in the past 2 months than they had back in March and April and the fatality rate per cases has fallen in double digit multiples - why is that? Surely that deserves to be highlighted and examined and the current data should be the one guiding our decisions rather than anomalies 6/7 months ago.

The mood around the vaccine. That's a mood - nothing is concrete but I'll put it to you this way. A vaccine comes out next year - I have two options:

a) Take a vaccine rushed through production stage, with very limited test results and no basis of potential side effects
b) Take my chances with a virus that probably presents nothing more that mild symptoms for 99.5% of my demograph

More testing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:41:11 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2020, 01:38:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:26:44 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 01:17:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 12:57:18 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:03:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 11:54:37 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 11:48:47 AM
what happens when the numbers increase to a level that the health system cannot handle? we have seen this in other countries. what happens to other health services as the number increase? what happens the mental health of those who lose loved ones or worst are responsible for giving covid to a loved one who dies.. 

no one on here has denied there are negative aspect of lockdown. No one thinks it a great solution but better than the alterntive taking everything into consideration. i doubt anyone is happy about it but this seems beyond your understanding its easier to start name calling...

I don't know.

It's all speculation, I don't see lockdown being a better alternative to living with the virus and that's from the data we are getting at present.

It's all ifs, buts and maybes but there are a certain cohort of posters on here who know as little as the next man who are displaying bizarre levels of arrogance with absolutely no knowledge on anything and they refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences lockdowns and excessive restrictions have on society.

I'd be very interested to see how Slovakia do with their mass testing, it's the most progressive approach I have seen any European country take yet.

you seem very happy to speculate on the outcomes of lockdown?  why is it so hard to speculate on your approach!! which also has a certain level of restrictions.. the arrogence seems to come from you not others.

the data shows increaing numbers of cases... surely you must consider the outcome of that to use your own words people "refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences"

Very happy to speculate?

Well done on the most ironic comment on the thread. We are all speculating, all of us, by contending anything I say, you are by your very nature speculating. Saying domestic violence incidents rise and mental health issues are compounded by lockdowns is not speculation though, there is data there to back that assertion up, we will only know to what level in time. It is my view that the consequences of lockdowns and excessive restrictions do more harm than good, it is my view that we are getting too consumed by Covid that we cannot see the consequences of the measure we are taking to combat Covid. And all of us, across all sides are speculating.

Look at all the expert modellers predicting millions of deaths in the UK by x amount of time, how wrong have some of these projections been? And what did those experts do? They speculated, none of us have a golden ball that will tell us what happens so it's an absolute ridiculous contention to make.

The data shows increasing number of cases AND decreasing numbers of fatalties relative to those cases, dropping by double digit multiples all across Europe at present when we contrast with the first wave - that is what the CURRENT data is telling us. I'm looking at the big picture and that's why I'm leaning towards lockdowns and excessive restrictions causing a lot more harm than good. You seem to be solely focusing on Covid.

You've never addressed this question yet. At which point does Covid become an acceptable risk? We have acceptable risk with flu, every year we deem an acceptable level of death, healthcare consumption, health impacts with it and we live with it. At what level do we have to get with Covid before it becomes acceptable? Can you please answer this question? I've done you the courtesy of answering the same question you've posed to me on about 6 different occasions, can you now do me the same?

It's quite likely that the expert modellers would've been right but for lockdown measures, combined with masks and social distancing. The fatality rate falling can easily be explained by the fact that it's mainly younger people who are getting infected now and their immune system is better able to fight off the virus. At the start a good number of older people were exposed to the virus and a large number sadly died.

The danger of not having lockdowns is that the NHS becomes overwhelmed meaning that sick people (with all illnesses, not just covid) can't be treated. That will inevitably happen if the virus is allowed to spread unchecked. The aim of the lockdowns and other measures is mainly to ensure the hospitals don't have the situations we saw in March in Spain and Italy where patients were lying on hospital floors because all beds were taken.

Another important point about the virus is that it's really not like the flu. A lot of people are trying to minimise the risk by saying it's just a mild flu. There are hundreds of thousands of people around the world suffering from "long covid". I know of 3 people who have terrible symptoms 6 months after they contracted the virus with no signs of these symptoms easing. None of the 3 had a particularly bad dose initially and weren't in hospital. I also know a cardiologist who works in the RVH and ha says there are quite a number of people coming into hospital with severe heart problems 4 or 5 months after getting covid. These were people who had mild symptoms or were asymptomatic. These aren't just anecdotes, I've also seen lots of reports of these issues in the papers. No one knows the long term effects of covid, even those who think they've got over it quickly may have problems waiting for them down the line.

The mood music around a vaccine is very good,  it's quite likely we'll have one for February/March of 2021. Short lockdowns are a necessary evil until then to ensure our NHS can cope.

On what basis is it quite likely right?

The thing about March and April is an outlier an anomaly. Spain have had nearly 3 times the no of positive cases in the past 2 months than they had back in March and April and the fatality rate per cases has fallen in double digit multiples - why is that? Surely that deserves to be highlighted and examined and the current data should be the one guiding our decisions rather than anomalies 6/7 months ago.

The mood around the vaccine. That's a mood - nothing is concrete but I'll put it to you this way. A vaccine comes out next year - I have two options:

a) Take a vaccine rushed through production stage, with very limited test results and no basis of potential side effects
b) Take my chances with a virus that probably presents nothing more that mild symptoms for 99.5% of my demograph

More testing.

Not up north. We are only doing 4-5k tests a day and returning circa 20% positive rates.

If you were to convert the fatality rates as accurate now and consider them consistent with the no of cases in the first wave it would mean that rather than 6,229 positive cases by the end of July we would actually would have had 150k people infected.

That's close to 10% of the population.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 20, 2020, 01:43:24 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 20, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 20, 2020, 10:58:16 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 20, 2020, 10:24:34 AM
Jeez Angelo you must be one of the stupidest people ever on this board, and that is saying something.

Jesus lads, this is definitely the most anger filled thread in here in some time.

Angelo has some points like everyone else, some of the stuff he says is probably going to turn out true over the course of time. Some of the stuff, will be wrong.

Everyone is guessing at this stage still really, scarily.

Why are you quoting me when you said anger filled thread?

Apologies, not in any way directed at you. This thread has taken a bit of personal inter twisting match between various ones back and forth with various insults. Amusing reading at times but not really of any use to the overall subject matter.

It's only a small sample of course but between here and twitter, these are my only real social media uses - here is a fairly, pro lockdown forum with fair enough reasoning. Twitter is the complete opposite, there seems to be a sea change of people (actual real, not hiding behind eggs) calling for the whole thing to go back to normal, some business owners stating they will not be closing and basically every comment was for them. It appears the general opinion on this board, seems to be the minority.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:05:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:21:39 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:15:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
The "let it rip" merchants seem to have forgotten the awful scenes from Italy last spring, a Country which has a very good health service which was totally overcome as Covud was ripping.
They also overlook the fact that the restrictions lowered the rate of infection.
"Health Officials on a power trip".
Such a ludicrous comment straight from the Gemma school of right wing nut job fuckwittery.
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

But sod them just "let it rip" and sure all will be fine.

It is a headline one would expect to see in the Sun, disproportionate and made with the only rational to get a reaction, it is quite pathetic that folk go down this route - there is no end game here - no vaccine will come to our aid, we have to learn to live with it, but you conclude that that means let it rip!

we tried living with it... numbers increased again after lockdown 1 so living with it is effectively lerting it rip or herd immunity approach..

if there is a successful way to live with it i am sure we wpuld all love to hear it and so would the governments of the world.

We tried living with it?

Cases increased.

0.11 are in ICU.

Sweden are living with it at present. Their 14 day incidence rate is currently much lower than the rest of Europe.

What happens next time we come out of lockdown? Numbers surge back up again and we lock back down again, how on earth is this a viable short term solution. Crossing our fingers and hoping a vaccine comes is not a viable solution, it's absolutely insane.

bery selective quoting.. you can speculate to back you your viewpoint but suddenly its all guesswork when i ask you to example your living wiyh covid approach... also you stidys and experts are trustworthy but any that disagree with your opinion is guesswork!!!

, i am glad  that in the above post you finally acknowledge that if we come out of lockdown cases will surge back up again, when we go back to living with covid.. i.e your approach...

so your apprich will continue  the surge and our health is not capable of dealing with. as for you social distanicng washing hands etc.. we are doing that now it hasnt worked as people dont adhere for a variety of reasons..

finally, there are things we can do to support people with dperession, suffers of addiction or  domestic violance etc. we did it before and it still presists and we can do more if there is a will either during or after lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:01:43 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:05:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:21:39 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:15:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
The "let it rip" merchants seem to have forgotten the awful scenes from Italy last spring, a Country which has a very good health service which was totally overcome as Covud was ripping.
They also overlook the fact that the restrictions lowered the rate of infection.
"Health Officials on a power trip".
Such a ludicrous comment straight from the Gemma school of right wing nut job fuckwittery.
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

But sod them just "let it rip" and sure all will be fine.

It is a headline one would expect to see in the Sun, disproportionate and made with the only rational to get a reaction, it is quite pathetic that folk go down this route - there is no end game here - no vaccine will come to our aid, we have to learn to live with it, but you conclude that that means let it rip!

we tried living with it... numbers increased again after lockdown 1 so living with it is effectively lerting it rip or herd immunity approach..

if there is a successful way to live with it i am sure we wpuld all love to hear it and so would the governments of the world.

We tried living with it?

Cases increased.

0.11 are in ICU.

Sweden are living with it at present. Their 14 day incidence rate is currently much lower than the rest of Europe.

What happens next time we come out of lockdown? Numbers surge back up again and we lock back down again, how on earth is this a viable short term solution. Crossing our fingers and hoping a vaccine comes is not a viable solution, it's absolutely insane.

bery selective quoting.. you can speculate to back you your viewpoint but suddenly its all guesswork when i ask you to example your living wiyh covid approach... also you stidys and experts are trustworthy but any that disagree with your opinion is guesswork!!!

, i am glad  that in the above post you finally acknowledge that if we come out of lockdown cases will surge back up again, when we go back to living with covid.. i.e your approach...

so your apprich will continue  the surge and our health is not capable of dealing with. as for you social distanicng washing hands etc.. we are doing that now it hasnt worked as people dont adhere for a variety of reasons..

finally, there are things we can do to support people with dperession, suffers of addiction or  domestic violance etc. we did it before and it still presists and we can do more if there is a will either during or after lockdown.

Selective.

You keeping pointing out to speculation but all you have offered to counter that is your speculation. I find it staggering you cannot see the irony there.

What also can't be sustained is coming in and out of lockdowns, lockdowns haven't worked - we went into one, came out of it and are now going back into one. So please God tell me, how the last lockdown actually managed to work?

There aren't things we can do to support them, domestic violence cases will inevitably rise with lockdowns and there's not a whole pile you can do?

So what's your strategy - remain in lockdown until there's a vaccine - how is that any sort of progressive long term solution?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 02:10:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2020, 01:25:09 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 01:23:07 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 01:17:24 PM
No one knows the long term effects of covid, even those who think they've got over it quickly may have problems waiting for them down the line.

The mood music around a vaccine is very good,  it's quite likely we'll have one for February/March of 2021. Short lockdowns are a necessary evil until then to ensure our NHS can cope.

You would be happy to line up for this in March, a year after they started looking - by the way it won't happen.

What is your PhD in?

Realism yours?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on October 20, 2020, 02:11:16 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 20, 2020, 01:26:14 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 12:24:52 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54612567

The flu yer man said.

The 55 covid patients is now 72 and ICU currently has its highest number since the pandemic started.
Do you know how many are in ICU JoG?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 02:14:13 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 01:29:30 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 01:22:08 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 01:17:24 PM


The danger of not having lockdowns is that the NHS becomes overwhelmed meaning that sick people (with all illnesses, not just covid) can't be treated. That will inevitably happen if the virus is allowed to spread unchecked. The aim of the lockdowns and other measures is mainly to ensure the hospitals don't have the situations we saw in March in Spain and Italy where patients were lying on hospital floors because all beds were taken.


They aren't been treated now!

And allowing covid to go unchecked is only going to make that way, way worse. I would definitely take the vaccine if all the safety checks have been done and they say it's effective. They're using technology for the virus which has been used before and has been shown to be extremely safe.

Why do you ignore the fact that hospitals are not currently treating the sick, do you think it is proportionate to allow medical appointments to be misses, cancer treatment and diagnosis to go begging - why does the potential of covid numbers trump current ill patients with other condition's? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 20, 2020, 02:14:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:21:48 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 01:14:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:06:31 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 01:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:00:21 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 12:24:52 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54612567

The flu yer man said.

Yes the flu.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/flu-and-bed-shortage-responsible-for-record-trolley-numbers-says-taoiseach-1.4131634

I must have missed the masks and hand sanitiser in the shops last January.  ::)

I must have missed the lockdowns and restrictive measures in January when the season flu was overwhelming the health service. Just as long as its not Covid doing it, right?

Not for the first time you completely fail to understand.

There's a stereotype of the big aul thick Tyrone man that loves Celtic, the Ra and a good fight, but has his brains in his arse.

Always thought it was unfair.

I see it now.

Not for the first time when the debate requires a bit of substance you resort to banal snide insults.

You just lack any conviction in yourself.

Myself and plenty of other have been through the data with you.

You don't understand it.

To the point that you laughably posted data yourself which totally disproved the point you were trying to make. ;D

I could go through your posts and pull out some of the ridiculous names your thrown at other posters here but I haven't the time nor inclination to embarrass you any further.  Your continued uneducated ramblings do that for themselves.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on October 20, 2020, 02:15:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:01:43 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:05:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:21:39 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:15:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
The "let it rip" merchants seem to have forgotten the awful scenes from Italy last spring, a Country which has a very good health service which was totally overcome as Covud was ripping.
They also overlook the fact that the restrictions lowered the rate of infection.
"Health Officials on a power trip".
Such a ludicrous comment straight from the Gemma school of right wing nut job fuckwittery.
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

But sod them just "let it rip" and sure all will be fine.

It is a headline one would expect to see in the Sun, disproportionate and made with the only rational to get a reaction, it is quite pathetic that folk go down this route - there is no end game here - no vaccine will come to our aid, we have to learn to live with it, but you conclude that that means let it rip!

we tried living with it... numbers increased again after lockdown 1 so living with it is effectively lerting it rip or herd immunity approach..

if there is a successful way to live with it i am sure we wpuld all love to hear it and so would the governments of the world.

We tried living with it?

Cases increased.

0.11 are in ICU.

Sweden are living with it at present. Their 14 day incidence rate is currently much lower than the rest of Europe.

What happens next time we come out of lockdown? Numbers surge back up again and we lock back down again, how on earth is this a viable short term solution. Crossing our fingers and hoping a vaccine comes is not a viable solution, it's absolutely insane.

bery selective quoting.. you can speculate to back you your viewpoint but suddenly its all guesswork when i ask you to example your living wiyh covid approach... also you stidys and experts are trustworthy but any that disagree with your opinion is guesswork!!!

, i am glad  that in the above post you finally acknowledge that if we come out of lockdown cases will surge back up again, when we go back to living with covid.. i.e your approach...

so your apprich will continue  the surge and our health is not capable of dealing with. as for you social distanicng washing hands etc.. we are doing that now it hasnt worked as people dont adhere for a variety of reasons..

finally, there are things we can do to support people with dperession, suffers of addiction or  domestic violance etc. we did it before and it still presists and we can do more if there is a will either during or after lockdown.

Selective.

You keeping pointing out to speculation but all you have offered to counter that is your speculation. I find it staggering you cannot see the irony there.

What also can't be sustained is coming in and out of lockdowns, lockdowns haven't worked - we went into one, came out of it and are now going back into one. So please God tell me, how the last lockdown actually managed to work?

There aren't things we can do to support them, domestic violence cases will inevitably rise with lockdowns and there's not a whole pile you can do?

So what's your strategy - remain in lockdown until there's a vaccine - how is that any sort of progressive long term solution?

Lockdowns do work. The first one worked perfectly, it got the R rate down so the NHS could cope.  Hopefully this one will work as well. We'll probably need another short one around Christmas and maybe in February before the vaccine is rolled out in spring.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 02:20:39 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 02:15:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:01:43 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:05:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:21:39 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:15:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
The "let it rip" merchants seem to have forgotten the awful scenes from Italy last spring, a Country which has a very good health service which was totally overcome as Covud was ripping.
They also overlook the fact that the restrictions lowered the rate of infection.
"Health Officials on a power trip".
Such a ludicrous comment straight from the Gemma school of right wing nut job fuckwittery.
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

But sod them just "let it rip" and sure all will be fine.

It is a headline one would expect to see in the Sun, disproportionate and made with the only rational to get a reaction, it is quite pathetic that folk go down this route - there is no end game here - no vaccine will come to our aid, we have to learn to live with it, but you conclude that that means let it rip!

we tried living with it... numbers increased again after lockdown 1 so living with it is effectively lerting it rip or herd immunity approach..

if there is a successful way to live with it i am sure we wpuld all love to hear it and so would the governments of the world.

We tried living with it?

Cases increased.

0.11 are in ICU.

Sweden are living with it at present. Their 14 day incidence rate is currently much lower than the rest of Europe.

What happens next time we come out of lockdown? Numbers surge back up again and we lock back down again, how on earth is this a viable short term solution. Crossing our fingers and hoping a vaccine comes is not a viable solution, it's absolutely insane.

bery selective quoting.. you can speculate to back you your viewpoint but suddenly its all guesswork when i ask you to example your living wiyh covid approach... also you stidys and experts are trustworthy but any that disagree with your opinion is guesswork!!!

, i am glad  that in the above post you finally acknowledge that if we come out of lockdown cases will surge back up again, when we go back to living with covid.. i.e your approach...

so your apprich will continue  the surge and our health is not capable of dealing with. as for you social distanicng washing hands etc.. we are doing that now it hasnt worked as people dont adhere for a variety of reasons..

finally, there are things we can do to support people with dperession, suffers of addiction or  domestic violance etc. we did it before and it still presists and we can do more if there is a will either during or after lockdown.

Selective.

You keeping pointing out to speculation but all you have offered to counter that is your speculation. I find it staggering you cannot see the irony there.

What also can't be sustained is coming in and out of lockdowns, lockdowns haven't worked - we went into one, came out of it and are now going back into one. So please God tell me, how the last lockdown actually managed to work?

There aren't things we can do to support them, domestic violence cases will inevitably rise with lockdowns and there's not a whole pile you can do?

So what's your strategy - remain in lockdown until there's a vaccine - how is that any sort of progressive long term solution?

Lockdowns do work. The first one worked perfectly, it got the R rate down so the NHS could cope.  Hopefully this one will work as well. We'll probably need another short one around Christmas and maybe in February before the vaccine is rolled out in spring.

The NHS is under pressure every year due to government cuts, the nightingale hospitals remained largely empty - in that time all hospital appointments were cancelled, cancer diagnosis were missed, cancer treatment were stopped, my mother fell and broke her hip at Easter, I wasn't allowed in to see her but went to drop bags down on a Saturday evening A&E was empty - I was the only none medical person knocking around, disproportionate response is an understatement.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:25:00 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 02:14:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:21:48 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 01:14:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:06:31 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 01:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:00:21 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 12:24:52 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54612567

The flu yer man said.

Yes the flu.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/flu-and-bed-shortage-responsible-for-record-trolley-numbers-says-taoiseach-1.4131634

I must have missed the masks and hand sanitiser in the shops last January.  ::)

I must have missed the lockdowns and restrictive measures in January when the season flu was overwhelming the health service. Just as long as its not Covid doing it, right?

Not for the first time you completely fail to understand.

There's a stereotype of the big aul thick Tyrone man that loves Celtic, the Ra and a good fight, but has his brains in his arse.

Always thought it was unfair.

I see it now.

Not for the first time when the debate requires a bit of substance you resort to banal snide insults.

You just lack any conviction in yourself.

Myself and plenty of other have been through the data with you.

You don't understand it.

To the point that you laughably posted data yourself which totally disproved the point you were trying to make. ;D

I could go through your posts and pull out some of the ridiculous names your thrown at other posters here but I haven't the time nor inclination to embarrass you any further.  Your continued uneducated ramblings do that for themselves.

You must have imagined that.

You've shouted and then ran off when things have got a bit heavy for you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2020, 02:26:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:41:11 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2020, 01:38:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:26:44 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 01:17:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 12:57:18 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:03:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 11:54:37 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 11:48:47 AM
what happens when the numbers increase to a level that the health system cannot handle? we have seen this in other countries. what happens to other health services as the number increase? what happens the mental health of those who lose loved ones or worst are responsible for giving covid to a loved one who dies.. 

no one on here has denied there are negative aspect of lockdown. No one thinks it a great solution but better than the alterntive taking everything into consideration. i doubt anyone is happy about it but this seems beyond your understanding its easier to start name calling...

I don't know.

It's all speculation, I don't see lockdown being a better alternative to living with the virus and that's from the data we are getting at present.

It's all ifs, buts and maybes but there are a certain cohort of posters on here who know as little as the next man who are displaying bizarre levels of arrogance with absolutely no knowledge on anything and they refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences lockdowns and excessive restrictions have on society.

I'd be very interested to see how Slovakia do with their mass testing, it's the most progressive approach I have seen any European country take yet.

you seem very happy to speculate on the outcomes of lockdown?  why is it so hard to speculate on your approach!! which also has a certain level of restrictions.. the arrogence seems to come from you not others.

the data shows increaing numbers of cases... surely you must consider the outcome of that to use your own words people "refuse to even look at the big picture and huge consequences"

Very happy to speculate?

Well done on the most ironic comment on the thread. We are all speculating, all of us, by contending anything I say, you are by your very nature speculating. Saying domestic violence incidents rise and mental health issues are compounded by lockdowns is not speculation though, there is data there to back that assertion up, we will only know to what level in time. It is my view that the consequences of lockdowns and excessive restrictions do more harm than good, it is my view that we are getting too consumed by Covid that we cannot see the consequences of the measure we are taking to combat Covid. And all of us, across all sides are speculating.

Look at all the expert modellers predicting millions of deaths in the UK by x amount of time, how wrong have some of these projections been? And what did those experts do? They speculated, none of us have a golden ball that will tell us what happens so it's an absolute ridiculous contention to make.

The data shows increasing number of cases AND decreasing numbers of fatalties relative to those cases, dropping by double digit multiples all across Europe at present when we contrast with the first wave - that is what the CURRENT data is telling us. I'm looking at the big picture and that's why I'm leaning towards lockdowns and excessive restrictions causing a lot more harm than good. You seem to be solely focusing on Covid.

You've never addressed this question yet. At which point does Covid become an acceptable risk? We have acceptable risk with flu, every year we deem an acceptable level of death, healthcare consumption, health impacts with it and we live with it. At what level do we have to get with Covid before it becomes acceptable? Can you please answer this question? I've done you the courtesy of answering the same question you've posed to me on about 6 different occasions, can you now do me the same?

It's quite likely that the expert modellers would've been right but for lockdown measures, combined with masks and social distancing. The fatality rate falling can easily be explained by the fact that it's mainly younger people who are getting infected now and their immune system is better able to fight off the virus. At the start a good number of older people were exposed to the virus and a large number sadly died.

The danger of not having lockdowns is that the NHS becomes overwhelmed meaning that sick people (with all illnesses, not just covid) can't be treated. That will inevitably happen if the virus is allowed to spread unchecked. The aim of the lockdowns and other measures is mainly to ensure the hospitals don't have the situations we saw in March in Spain and Italy where patients were lying on hospital floors because all beds were taken.

Another important point about the virus is that it's really not like the flu. A lot of people are trying to minimise the risk by saying it's just a mild flu. There are hundreds of thousands of people around the world suffering from "long covid". I know of 3 people who have terrible symptoms 6 months after they contracted the virus with no signs of these symptoms easing. None of the 3 had a particularly bad dose initially and weren't in hospital. I also know a cardiologist who works in the RVH and ha says there are quite a number of people coming into hospital with severe heart problems 4 or 5 months after getting covid. These were people who had mild symptoms or were asymptomatic. These aren't just anecdotes, I've also seen lots of reports of these issues in the papers. No one knows the long term effects of covid, even those who think they've got over it quickly may have problems waiting for them down the line.

The mood music around a vaccine is very good,  it's quite likely we'll have one for February/March of 2021. Short lockdowns are a necessary evil until then to ensure our NHS can cope.

On what basis is it quite likely right?

The thing about March and April is an outlier an anomaly. Spain have had nearly 3 times the no of positive cases in the past 2 months than they had back in March and April and the fatality rate per cases has fallen in double digit multiples - why is that? Surely that deserves to be highlighted and examined and the current data should be the one guiding our decisions rather than anomalies 6/7 months ago.

The mood around the vaccine. That's a mood - nothing is concrete but I'll put it to you this way. A vaccine comes out next year - I have two options:

a) Take a vaccine rushed through production stage, with very limited test results and no basis of potential side effects
b) Take my chances with a virus that probably presents nothing more that mild symptoms for 99.5% of my demograph

More testing.

Not up north. We are only doing 4-5k tests a day and returning circa 20% positive rates.

If you were to convert the fatality rates as accurate now and consider them consistent with the no of cases in the first wave it would mean that rather than 6,229 positive cases by the end of July we would actually would have had 150k people infected.

That's close to 10% of the population.

More testing is definitely part of the reason. In April we were testing under 1000 a day. It's not the only factor, There are other factors like improved treatment, lower age group of infected who are able to fight it better, lag in death rates compared to todays infection rates etc. But increased testing is definitely part of the reason we have higher case to death ratio. And yes I do believe there's been more infected in NI that was believed initially.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:26:55 PM
Is the nightingale hospital not only just opened again?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:27:31 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 02:15:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:01:43 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:05:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:21:39 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:15:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
The "let it rip" merchants seem to have forgotten the awful scenes from Italy last spring, a Country which has a very good health service which was totally overcome as Covud was ripping.
They also overlook the fact that the restrictions lowered the rate of infection.
"Health Officials on a power trip".
Such a ludicrous comment straight from the Gemma school of right wing nut job fuckwittery.
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

But sod them just "let it rip" and sure all will be fine.

It is a headline one would expect to see in the Sun, disproportionate and made with the only rational to get a reaction, it is quite pathetic that folk go down this route - there is no end game here - no vaccine will come to our aid, we have to learn to live with it, but you conclude that that means let it rip!

we tried living with it... numbers increased again after lockdown 1 so living with it is effectively lerting it rip or herd immunity approach..

if there is a successful way to live with it i am sure we wpuld all love to hear it and so would the governments of the world.

We tried living with it?

Cases increased.

0.11 are in ICU.

Sweden are living with it at present. Their 14 day incidence rate is currently much lower than the rest of Europe.

What happens next time we come out of lockdown? Numbers surge back up again and we lock back down again, how on earth is this a viable short term solution. Crossing our fingers and hoping a vaccine comes is not a viable solution, it's absolutely insane.

bery selective quoting.. you can speculate to back you your viewpoint but suddenly its all guesswork when i ask you to example your living wiyh covid approach... also you stidys and experts are trustworthy but any that disagree with your opinion is guesswork!!!

, i am glad  that in the above post you finally acknowledge that if we come out of lockdown cases will surge back up again, when we go back to living with covid.. i.e your approach...

so your apprich will continue  the surge and our health is not capable of dealing with. as for you social distanicng washing hands etc.. we are doing that now it hasnt worked as people dont adhere for a variety of reasons..

finally, there are things we can do to support people with dperession, suffers of addiction or  domestic violance etc. we did it before and it still presists and we can do more if there is a will either during or after lockdown.

Selective.

You keeping pointing out to speculation but all you have offered to counter that is your speculation. I find it staggering you cannot see the irony there.

What also can't be sustained is coming in and out of lockdowns, lockdowns haven't worked - we went into one, came out of it and are now going back into one. So please God tell me, how the last lockdown actually managed to work?

There aren't things we can do to support them, domestic violence cases will inevitably rise with lockdowns and there's not a whole pile you can do?

So what's your strategy - remain in lockdown until there's a vaccine - how is that any sort of progressive long term solution?

Lockdowns do work. The first one worked perfectly, it got the R rate down so the NHS could cope.  Hopefully this one will work as well. We'll probably need another short one around Christmas and maybe in February before the vaccine is rolled out in spring.

No they don't, they are a stop gap solution that have absolutely massive societal consequences. The WHO have came out recently and said governments should not be using lockdowns as their sole approach to handle the virus. What happens when we come out of the next lockdown? Numbers surge again and we go into another lockdown?

Lockdowns DO NOT work. They have huge consequences for society.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:29:55 PM
You should write a thesis on this.

They are a necessary evil when things have got out of control. They are not a long term solution. Everyone knows that but when things are spiraling then what's the alternative. The north's stats is in terms of hospital capacity we're at 95%.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:33:05 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 02:20:39 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 02:15:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:01:43 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:05:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:21:39 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:15:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
The "let it rip" merchants seem to have forgotten the awful scenes from Italy last spring, a Country which has a very good health service which was totally overcome as Covud was ripping.
They also overlook the fact that the restrictions lowered the rate of infection.
"Health Officials on a power trip".
Such a ludicrous comment straight from the Gemma school of right wing nut job fuckwittery.
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

But sod them just "let it rip" and sure all will be fine.

It is a headline one would expect to see in the Sun, disproportionate and made with the only rational to get a reaction, it is quite pathetic that folk go down this route - there is no end game here - no vaccine will come to our aid, we have to learn to live with it, but you conclude that that means let it rip!

we tried living with it... numbers increased again after lockdown 1 so living with it is effectively lerting it rip or herd immunity approach..

if there is a successful way to live with it i am sure we wpuld all love to hear it and so would the governments of the world.

We tried living with it?

Cases increased.

0.11 are in ICU.

Sweden are living with it at present. Their 14 day incidence rate is currently much lower than the rest of Europe.

What happens next time we come out of lockdown? Numbers surge back up again and we lock back down again, how on earth is this a viable short term solution. Crossing our fingers and hoping a vaccine comes is not a viable solution, it's absolutely insane.

bery selective quoting.. you can speculate to back you your viewpoint but suddenly its all guesswork when i ask you to example your living wiyh covid approach... also you stidys and experts are trustworthy but any that disagree with your opinion is guesswork!!!

, i am glad  that in the above post you finally acknowledge that if we come out of lockdown cases will surge back up again, when we go back to living with covid.. i.e your approach...

so your apprich will continue  the surge and our health is not capable of dealing with. as for you social distanicng washing hands etc.. we are doing that now it hasnt worked as people dont adhere for a variety of reasons..

finally, there are things we can do to support people with dperession, suffers of addiction or  domestic violance etc. we did it before and it still presists and we can do more if there is a will either during or after lockdown.

Selective.

You keeping pointing out to speculation but all you have offered to counter that is your speculation. I find it staggering you cannot see the irony there.

What also can't be sustained is coming in and out of lockdowns, lockdowns haven't worked - we went into one, came out of it and are now going back into one. So please God tell me, how the last lockdown actually managed to work?

There aren't things we can do to support them, domestic violence cases will inevitably rise with lockdowns and there's not a whole pile you can do?

So what's your strategy - remain in lockdown until there's a vaccine - how is that any sort of progressive long term solution?

Lockdowns do work. The first one worked perfectly, it got the R rate down so the NHS could cope.  Hopefully this one will work as well. We'll probably need another short one around Christmas and maybe in February before the vaccine is rolled out in spring.

The NHS is under pressure every year due to government cuts, the nightingale hospitals remained largely empty - in that time all hospital appointments were cancelled, cancer diagnosis were missed, cancer treatment were stopped, my mother fell and broke her hip at Easter, I wasn't allowed in to see her but went to drop bags down on a Saturday evening A&E was empty - I was the only none medical person knocking around, disproportionate response is an understatement.
The Nightingale hospitals remained largely empty because the lockdown worked

I'm sorry to hear your mother broke her hip but it seems that she at least got treated

I haven't really seen any proper study or investigation about what (if any) essential services were stopped or reduced, either in the wee six or the saorstát

Perhaps if anybody has a link to something like that they might post it up

My own feeling is that people voluntarily passed up on anything they felt would be a non-essential visit to the hospital or the doctor because of a combination of a fear of the virus and social responsibility in terms of not occupying hospital staff or doctors with non-essential stuff



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:33:51 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:29:55 PM
You should write a thesis on this.

They are a necessary evil when things have got out of control. They are not a long term solution. Everyone knows that but when things are spiraling then what's the alternative. The north's stats is in terms of hospital capacity we're at 95%.

If they are not a long term solution then what are government's long term solutions.

Sweden are an example of a European country that have not gone into full lockdowns and used overly excessive restrictions.

Their 14 day incidence rate is one of the lowest in Europe at present, what does that tell you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on October 20, 2020, 02:34:30 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 02:20:39 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 02:15:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:01:43 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:05:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:21:39 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:15:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
The "let it rip" merchants seem to have forgotten the awful scenes from Italy last spring, a Country which has a very good health service which was totally overcome as Covud was ripping.
They also overlook the fact that the restrictions lowered the rate of infection.
"Health Officials on a power trip".
Such a ludicrous comment straight from the Gemma school of right wing nut job fuckwittery.
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

But sod them just "let it rip" and sure all will be fine.

It is a headline one would expect to see in the Sun, disproportionate and made with the only rational to get a reaction, it is quite pathetic that folk go down this route - there is no end game here - no vaccine will come to our aid, we have to learn to live with it, but you conclude that that means let it rip!

we tried living with it... numbers increased again after lockdown 1 so living with it is effectively lerting it rip or herd immunity approach..

if there is a successful way to live with it i am sure we wpuld all love to hear it and so would the governments of the world.

We tried living with it?

Cases increased.

0.11 are in ICU.

Sweden are living with it at present. Their 14 day incidence rate is currently much lower than the rest of Europe.

What happens next time we come out of lockdown? Numbers surge back up again and we lock back down again, how on earth is this a viable short term solution. Crossing our fingers and hoping a vaccine comes is not a viable solution, it's absolutely insane.

bery selective quoting.. you can speculate to back you your viewpoint but suddenly its all guesswork when i ask you to example your living wiyh covid approach... also you stidys and experts are trustworthy but any that disagree with your opinion is guesswork!!!

, i am glad  that in the above post you finally acknowledge that if we come out of lockdown cases will surge back up again, when we go back to living with covid.. i.e your approach...

so your apprich will continue  the surge and our health is not capable of dealing with. as for you social distanicng washing hands etc.. we are doing that now it hasnt worked as people dont adhere for a variety of reasons..

finally, there are things we can do to support people with dperession, suffers of addiction or  domestic violance etc. we did it before and it still presists and we can do more if there is a will either during or after lockdown.

Selective.

You keeping pointing out to speculation but all you have offered to counter that is your speculation. I find it staggering you cannot see the irony there.

What also can't be sustained is coming in and out of lockdowns, lockdowns haven't worked - we went into one, came out of it and are now going back into one. So please God tell me, how the last lockdown actually managed to work?

There aren't things we can do to support them, domestic violence cases will inevitably rise with lockdowns and there's not a whole pile you can do?

So what's your strategy - remain in lockdown until there's a vaccine - how is that any sort of progressive long term solution?

Lockdowns do work. The first one worked perfectly, it got the R rate down so the NHS could cope.  Hopefully this one will work as well. We'll probably need another short one around Christmas and maybe in February before the vaccine is rolled out in spring.

The NHS is under pressure every year due to government cuts, the nightingale hospitals remained largely empty - in that time all hospital appointments were cancelled, cancer diagnosis were missed, cancer treatment were stopped, my mother fell and broke her hip at Easter, I wasn't allowed in to see her but went to drop bags down on a Saturday evening A&E was empty - I was the only none medical person knocking around, disproportionate response is an understatement.

The nightingale hospitals remained largely empty due to the lockdown reducing the numbers of severe cases of Covid, surely a plus in anybody's interpretation, well anybody half wise that is. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:36:05 PM
This thing comes in waves angelo. It is very hard to tell whether we are in the same place as them wave wise. There are many articles you could find to tell you how terrible the swedish approach is for every one that tells you how good it is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 02:36:32 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:29:55 PM
You should write a thesis on this.

They are a necessary evil when things have got out of control. They are not a long term solution. Everyone knows that but when things are spiraling then what's the alternative. The north's stats is in terms of hospital capacity we're at 95%.

They are always at capacity  - 22,000 die on Northern Ireland health service waiting list in five years - https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/22000-die-on-northern-ireland-health-service-waiting-list-in-five-years-38869044.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/22000-die-on-northern-ireland-health-service-waiting-list-in-five-years-38869044.html) imagine the stats for the next 5 years, but there are 55 in hospital with covid!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:38:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:27:31 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 02:15:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:01:43 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:05:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:21:39 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:15:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
The "let it rip" merchants seem to have forgotten the awful scenes from Italy last spring, a Country which has a very good health service which was totally overcome as Covud was ripping.
They also overlook the fact that the restrictions lowered the rate of infection.
"Health Officials on a power trip".
Such a ludicrous comment straight from the Gemma school of right wing nut job fuckwittery.
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

But sod them just "let it rip" and sure all will be fine.

It is a headline one would expect to see in the Sun, disproportionate and made with the only rational to get a reaction, it is quite pathetic that folk go down this route - there is no end game here - no vaccine will come to our aid, we have to learn to live with it, but you conclude that that means let it rip!

we tried living with it... numbers increased again after lockdown 1 so living with it is effectively lerting it rip or herd immunity approach..

if there is a successful way to live with it i am sure we wpuld all love to hear it and so would the governments of the world.

We tried living with it?

Cases increased.

0.11 are in ICU.

Sweden are living with it at present. Their 14 day incidence rate is currently much lower than the rest of Europe.

What happens next time we come out of lockdown? Numbers surge back up again and we lock back down again, how on earth is this a viable short term solution. Crossing our fingers and hoping a vaccine comes is not a viable solution, it's absolutely insane.

bery selective quoting.. you can speculate to back you your viewpoint but suddenly its all guesswork when i ask you to example your living wiyh covid approach... also you stidys and experts are trustworthy but any that disagree with your opinion is guesswork!!!

, i am glad  that in the above post you finally acknowledge that if we come out of lockdown cases will surge back up again, when we go back to living with covid.. i.e your approach...

so your apprich will continue  the surge and our health is not capable of dealing with. as for you social distanicng washing hands etc.. we are doing that now it hasnt worked as people dont adhere for a variety of reasons..

finally, there are things we can do to support people with dperession, suffers of addiction or  domestic violance etc. we did it before and it still presists and we can do more if there is a will either during or after lockdown.

Selective.

You keeping pointing out to speculation but all you have offered to counter that is your speculation. I find it staggering you cannot see the irony there.

What also can't be sustained is coming in and out of lockdowns, lockdowns haven't worked - we went into one, came out of it and are now going back into one. So please God tell me, how the last lockdown actually managed to work?

There aren't things we can do to support them, domestic violence cases will inevitably rise with lockdowns and there's not a whole pile you can do?

So what's your strategy - remain in lockdown until there's a vaccine - how is that any sort of progressive long term solution?

Lockdowns do work. The first one worked perfectly, it got the R rate down so the NHS could cope.  Hopefully this one will work as well. We'll probably need another short one around Christmas and maybe in February before the vaccine is rolled out in spring.

No they don't, they are a stop gap solution that have absolutely massive societal consequences. The WHO have came out recently and said governments should not be using lockdowns as their sole approach to handle the virus. What happens when we come out of the next lockdown? Numbers surge again and we go into another lockdown?

Lockdowns DO NOT work. They have huge consequences for society.
But when you say lockdowns don't work, you're deliberately misrepresenting what the WHO said, and unfortunately this has been a real problem with the "let it rip" mob - it's disinformation

Of course lockdowns have consequences and now that we're seven or eight months into this, they shouldn't be your primary mode of control - which is what the WHO actually said - but they absolutely do work in terms of what they are there to do, which is to reduce the case numbers

And if they are needed, well, they have to be implemented

Nobody has yet pointed to a lockdown anywhere in the world which has failed in this regard

The reason we have to lock down now is because that is the only option left open to us

That is down to a failure of government, but it doesn't change the epidemiological reality
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 02:40:07 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 20, 2020, 02:34:30 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 02:20:39 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 02:15:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:01:43 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:05:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:21:39 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:15:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
The "let it rip" merchants seem to have forgotten the awful scenes from Italy last spring, a Country which has a very good health service which was totally overcome as Covud was ripping.
They also overlook the fact that the restrictions lowered the rate of infection.
"Health Officials on a power trip".
Such a ludicrous comment straight from the Gemma school of right wing nut job fuckwittery.
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

But sod them just "let it rip" and sure all will be fine.

It is a headline one would expect to see in the Sun, disproportionate and made with the only rational to get a reaction, it is quite pathetic that folk go down this route - there is no end game here - no vaccine will come to our aid, we have to learn to live with it, but you conclude that that means let it rip!

we tried living with it... numbers increased again after lockdown 1 so living with it is effectively lerting it rip or herd immunity approach..

if there is a successful way to live with it i am sure we wpuld all love to hear it and so would the governments of the world.

We tried living with it?

Cases increased.

0.11 are in ICU.

Sweden are living with it at present. Their 14 day incidence rate is currently much lower than the rest of Europe.

What happens next time we come out of lockdown? Numbers surge back up again and we lock back down again, how on earth is this a viable short term solution. Crossing our fingers and hoping a vaccine comes is not a viable solution, it's absolutely insane.

bery selective quoting.. you can speculate to back you your viewpoint but suddenly its all guesswork when i ask you to example your living wiyh covid approach... also you stidys and experts are trustworthy but any that disagree with your opinion is guesswork!!!

, i am glad  that in the above post you finally acknowledge that if we come out of lockdown cases will surge back up again, when we go back to living with covid.. i.e your approach...

so your apprich will continue  the surge and our health is not capable of dealing with. as for you social distanicng washing hands etc.. we are doing that now it hasnt worked as people dont adhere for a variety of reasons..

finally, there are things we can do to support people with dperession, suffers of addiction or  domestic violance etc. we did it before and it still presists and we can do more if there is a will either during or after lockdown.

Selective.

You keeping pointing out to speculation but all you have offered to counter that is your speculation. I find it staggering you cannot see the irony there.

What also can't be sustained is coming in and out of lockdowns, lockdowns haven't worked - we went into one, came out of it and are now going back into one. So please God tell me, how the last lockdown actually managed to work?

There aren't things we can do to support them, domestic violence cases will inevitably rise with lockdowns and there's not a whole pile you can do?

So what's your strategy - remain in lockdown until there's a vaccine - how is that any sort of progressive long term solution?

Lockdowns do work. The first one worked perfectly, it got the R rate down so the NHS could cope.  Hopefully this one will work as well. We'll probably need another short one around Christmas and maybe in February before the vaccine is rolled out in spring.

The NHS is under pressure every year due to government cuts, the nightingale hospitals remained largely empty - in that time all hospital appointments were cancelled, cancer diagnosis were missed, cancer treatment were stopped, my mother fell and broke her hip at Easter, I wasn't allowed in to see her but went to drop bags down on a Saturday evening A&E was empty - I was the only none medical person knocking around, disproportionate response is an understatement.

The nightingale hospitals remained largely empty due to the lockdown reducing the numbers of severe cases of Covid, surely a plus in anybody's interpretation, well anybody half wise that is.

The narrative has well and truly been instilled in folk here, the nightingale was for the surge, the surge didn't happen so why was all other treatment cancelled, I personally know a doctor who was sent to a covid ward every Thursday and there was no one there she did ABSOULTELY NOTHING so who saw her patients whilst she was there?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 02:42:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:38:56 PM

That is down to a failure of government, but it doesn't change the epidemiological reality

This is way beyond epidemiological the societal effects now and going forward are horrendous.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2020, 02:46:40 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 02:20:39 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 02:15:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:01:43 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:05:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:21:39 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:15:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
The "let it rip" merchants seem to have forgotten the awful scenes from Italy last spring, a Country which has a very good health service which was totally overcome as Covud was ripping.
They also overlook the fact that the restrictions lowered the rate of infection.
"Health Officials on a power trip".
Such a ludicrous comment straight from the Gemma school of right wing nut job fuckwittery.
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

But sod them just "let it rip" and sure all will be fine.

It is a headline one would expect to see in the Sun, disproportionate and made with the only rational to get a reaction, it is quite pathetic that folk go down this route - there is no end game here - no vaccine will come to our aid, we have to learn to live with it, but you conclude that that means let it rip!

we tried living with it... numbers increased again after lockdown 1 so living with it is effectively lerting it rip or herd immunity approach..

if there is a successful way to live with it i am sure we wpuld all love to hear it and so would the governments of the world.

We tried living with it?

Cases increased.

0.11 are in ICU.

Sweden are living with it at present. Their 14 day incidence rate is currently much lower than the rest of Europe.

What happens next time we come out of lockdown? Numbers surge back up again and we lock back down again, how on earth is this a viable short term solution. Crossing our fingers and hoping a vaccine comes is not a viable solution, it's absolutely insane.

bery selective quoting.. you can speculate to back you your viewpoint but suddenly its all guesswork when i ask you to example your living wiyh covid approach... also you stidys and experts are trustworthy but any that disagree with your opinion is guesswork!!!

, i am glad  that in the above post you finally acknowledge that if we come out of lockdown cases will surge back up again, when we go back to living with covid.. i.e your approach...

so your apprich will continue  the surge and our health is not capable of dealing with. as for you social distanicng washing hands etc.. we are doing that now it hasnt worked as people dont adhere for a variety of reasons..

finally, there are things we can do to support people with dperession, suffers of addiction or  domestic violance etc. we did it before and it still presists and we can do more if there is a will either during or after lockdown.

Selective.

You keeping pointing out to speculation but all you have offered to counter that is your speculation. I find it staggering you cannot see the irony there.

What also can't be sustained is coming in and out of lockdowns, lockdowns haven't worked - we went into one, came out of it and are now going back into one. So please God tell me, how the last lockdown actually managed to work?

There aren't things we can do to support them, domestic violence cases will inevitably rise with lockdowns and there's not a whole pile you can do?

So what's your strategy - remain in lockdown until there's a vaccine - how is that any sort of progressive long term solution?

Lockdowns do work. The first one worked perfectly, it got the R rate down so the NHS could cope.  Hopefully this one will work as well. We'll probably need another short one around Christmas and maybe in February before the vaccine is rolled out in spring.

The NHS is under pressure every year due to government cuts, the nightingale hospitals remained largely empty - in that time all hospital appointments were cancelled, cancer diagnosis were missed, cancer treatment were stopped, my mother fell and broke her hip at Easter, I wasn't allowed in to see her but went to drop bags down on a Saturday evening A&E was empty - I was the only none medical person knocking around, disproportionate response is an understatement.

This is worthy of discussion. And I do think the NHS need to review how they are handling on going treatments of patients. As a complete shutdown is not right in my eyes. I think it needs to try to keep moving. However there has to be an understanding that NHS workers need to be protected as well, so there will be delays as compared to none covid times. I think some Doctors and surgeons have actually come out to say that they need to try and keep things moving as the backlog will be impossible otherwise. And I would hope that this is something that is being looked at.
One of the best ways of doing this is reducing the strain on the NHS so that more and more operations and treatments can be accommodated. One of the best ways of reducing the strain on the NHS is to reduce the impact of Covid. Covid patients ARE taking up a disproportionate segment of the NHS because they get priority. This happens with none covid patients as well. You can be scheduled for an operation and find out there's been a car crash and the theater is in use and have to be re-scheduled. If something urgent comes in then priorities change within hospitals. That's why reducing the numbers coming to the hospitals is vital. Lockdowns are far from ideal, and if there is a better method of reducing those numbers then I would love to hear it. But if the number of hospitalisations continue to increase, then something has to be done or cancer patients, selective surgeries etc will all be cancelled anyway AND we'll have a covid nightmare on top of that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:47:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:36:05 PM
This thing comes in waves angelo. It is very hard to tell whether we are in the same place as them wave wise. There are many articles you could find to tell you how terrible the swedish approach is for every one that tells you how good it is.

It will come in waves when your lock people up for months and then open things up again.

Or you can try and live with it like the Swedes are doing.

The Swedes seem to be taking a long term approach here, we seem to using lockdown as a sticky plaster in the vain hope that we will have a vaccine in the short term.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:48:09 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 02:36:32 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:29:55 PM
You should write a thesis on this.

They are a necessary evil when things have got out of control. They are not a long term solution. Everyone knows that but when things are spiraling then what's the alternative. The north's stats is in terms of hospital capacity we're at 95%.

They are always at capacity  - 22,000 die on Northern Ireland health service waiting list in five years - https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/22000-die-on-northern-ireland-health-service-waiting-list-in-five-years-38869044.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/22000-die-on-northern-ireland-health-service-waiting-list-in-five-years-38869044.html) imagine the stats for the next 5 years, but there are 55 in hospital with covid!

There are 286 in hospital with covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:49:22 PM
(N.B. There 120 14-16 days ago - possibly less but I can't find the history)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:52:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 11:07:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 10:48:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 10:42:08 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 10:31:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 10:03:22 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 09:47:14 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 09:15:32 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 12:19:36 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2020, 12:05:36 AM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 19, 2020, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 19, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
So Micheál Martin confirmed its the suppress and release strategy until "a safe vaccine is found".

Ouch...that's a serous roll of the dice .
3 weeks in lockdown then 3 weeks off then back in for an arbitrary amount of time is the worst scenario for anyone trying to run a business in the hospitality sector as no one knows whether they are coming or going so no one can confidently book a table or a room anywhere 3 weeks in advance. The business may or may not still be opened and the people who own or work in the business may or may not be entitled to some payment but they have no customers either way. Even when businesses where opened for a few weeks the rules ensured they couldn't really make a go off it. Max of 6 people, pub closed by 10, no music, nobody too drunk, only talk to person in your group, now talk of outdoor only venues in the middle of winter mean there was no appeal in going out anyhow. The same for anyone thinking of going abroad or coming to Ireland. It doesnt matter which countries are on the green or amber list or whatever.  Most people wont go anywhere as they dont want the hassle of guessing what different rules will be in place a week from now.  There are whole sectors of the economy screwed and the on off restrictions and rules that go along with it are only making it worse.

Sin é. You can't have party pubs in the middle of pandemic, that is as good as it gets.
The trick is to ensure that the R after the current lockdown is 1.2 instead of 1.4 then the vaccine will be coming on stream before another lockdown is needed.

Patrick Vallance said today there wouldn't be a vaccine until at least the spring

There was a guy from whatever umbrella group represents the restaurants on the radio last week calling for the lockdown to be implemented now in the hope it would be lifted for the pre-Christmas period

Said 30% of his business for the year is in the weeks leading up to Christmas

Can see us going back to Level 5 in January

Ultimately this endless circle of trap and release is not sustainable but the will is not there to put in place a strategy to open up but keep the virus down

It's rather worrying

It's chaotic, we either learn to live with the virus or we lock ourselves away for an infinite amount of time until it's done which seems mad.

But this open/close/open/close strategy is completely for the birds.

There simply must not be another lockdown, the next time we come out there should be no way we go back in.
Live with the virus means you come up with a suppression strategy so you can open up safely

It does not mean open up and allow the virus to spread wildly

This is what Dr. Nabarro from the WHO was talking about

People seem to be conflating the first wave with the second wave.

Since August 63 people have died from Covid in the O6.

A little less than one per day, have we any barometer what level of death is acceptable. If we find out in January and February that we had an extra 70 incidents of suicides, if domestic violence cases were up 80%, if mental health problems increased, if addictions relapses increased 40% - at which point would we say that the implementation of lockdowns and restrictive measures are actually having a much more negative societal impact than they are having a positive one.

So unless Governments have some break even point identified, some form of acceptable Covid risk identified then we are in serious bother as a society.

We live with seasonal flu, it puts the health system under pressure every year, it kills people, causes long lasting health problems - but governments clearly feel all those risks are acceptable to a certain level so what I want to know is what is deemed acceptable with Covid? What are we aiming for? The messaging from government is the most worrying aspect out of all of this, it's close your eyes and hope for the best. Repeat failed strategies and hope for the best.
Covid is not seasonal flu

It does not peak in January and then go away

It keeps going relentlessly

But that is not to say that there may not be a seasonal element to it

You are making cast iron assumptions based on totally incomplete evidence

Actually, what you are assuming is that the virus has mutated into a significantly less severe form

There is no evidence for that

The apparently lower death rate currently is likely down to dynamics we do not fully understand

Maybe the old and vulnerable are protecting themselves much more effectively than in the spring and it's largely the less vulnerable who are currently getting it

Masks could be playing a role in how serious a viral load people are receiving

Maybe the way the virus is being treated in hospitals is slightly more effective than in spring

Yet in the US deaths are continuing to tick along at a pretty steady rate and have been doing so since the summer

The more the virus spreads, the harder it is to protect the old and vulnerable and then there's a very good chance the assumptions you are making about death rates will look very foolish

I'm not making any assumptions.

What am I saying is that people are becoming consumed by a virus which current data shows fatality rates at around 0.29% of positive cases - probably lower as testing is probably not catching close to the true amount of positive cases and currently has an ICU incidence rate of 0.11%. That is what the current data tells us. There are no assumptions there

And once again, complete and utter ignorance of the widespread and long term detrimental consequences to so many vulnerable factions of society that lockdowns and restrictions bring.

So I will ask you again, at what measure do we say there is an acceptable level of risk and death with Covid, like we do with seasonal flu every year? Not one person has addressed this yet, not one. I'll have all the blowhards here, sniping away like the cowards they are but when they are pushed for an answer on that, their yellow underbelly is there for all to see.

I've made the point that we live with flu, it causes death, it causes health problems, it puts strain on the health service - yet we accept all that with it. We accept the deaths, we accept the health problems, we accept the strain on the health service, we accept the level of risk. So at which point does Covid carry an acceptable level of risk? That one is for all the blowhards here, have any of the posters happy enough to take their snide shots a pair of balls big enough to answer that question? Anyone?

But you're refusing to elaborate on why you think death rates are currently lower than in spring

It seems clear that you really do believe the virus has mutated into a significantly less serious form

If you don't believe that, then there has been literally no point to your last 20 pages of posts

I don't know. I would say it was something to do with being taken on the hop by it, no preparation, lack of knowledge in treating patients, insufficient PPE in hospitals that might have spread it to vulnerable patients. It could be anything but the way the data is trending is encouraging in terms of the risk of the virus. For a fit and healthy person, the chances of dying from it seem very remote.

The only observation I have made is that the virus is significantly level fatal in the second wave than the first. That's what the data says. It could be for a number of different reasons but you haven't a clue why and neither do I.
Some of those things could be factors

But if they are, what happens if you run out of hospital capacity?

Any improvements in treatment would then become moot because not everybody would be treated in hospital

If the virus has declined so much in terms of deadliness, why are we even still looking for a vaccine?

Because the virus hasn't declined in terms of deadliness, it's still the same virus



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 02:53:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:48:09 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 02:36:32 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:29:55 PM
You should write a thesis on this.

They are a necessary evil when things have got out of control. They are not a long term solution. Everyone knows that but when things are spiraling then what's the alternative. The north's stats is in terms of hospital capacity we're at 95%.

They are always at capacity  - 22,000 die on Northern Ireland health service waiting list in five years - https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/22000-die-on-northern-ireland-health-service-waiting-list-in-five-years-38869044.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/22000-die-on-northern-ireland-health-service-waiting-list-in-five-years-38869044.html) imagine the stats for the next 5 years, but there are 55 in hospital with covid!

There are 286 in hospital with covid.

Apologies I was quoting from the War Zone Altnagelvin Covid unit, them additional few hundred in a population of 1.8 million has shut me up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:47:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:36:05 PM
This thing comes in waves angelo. It is very hard to tell whether we are in the same place as them wave wise. There are many articles you could find to tell you how terrible the swedish approach is for every one that tells you how good it is.

It will come in waves when your lock people up for months and then open things up again.

Or you can try and live with it like the Swedes are doing.

The Swedes seem to be taking a long term approach here, we seem to using lockdown as a sticky plaster in the vain hope that we will have a vaccine in the short term.
Sweden had 1,180 cases a few days ago

They are still weeks behind us in their wave because they took longer to come out of their first wave

From what I can make out there is growing anger in Sweden at how they've handled things
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:56:35 PM
You're a very angry man Seaney  ;D

If you include ICU you're a magnitude of 6 down...

I see where you're coming from and I think it's went a bit mad with the lockdowns but if it keeps going how it's going this last few weeks we're in big bother. What were the stats today? 1765 NHS staff / health workers are currently off sick? Basically something needs done and they don't know what to do.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:57:36 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 02:42:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:38:56 PM

That is down to a failure of government, but it doesn't change the epidemiological reality

This is way beyond epidemiological the societal effects now and going forward are horrendous.
What are you proposing to fix the problem?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:02:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:47:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:36:05 PM
This thing comes in waves angelo. It is very hard to tell whether we are in the same place as them wave wise. There are many articles you could find to tell you how terrible the swedish approach is for every one that tells you how good it is.

It will come in waves when your lock people up for months and then open things up again.

Or you can try and live with it like the Swedes are doing.

The Swedes seem to be taking a long term approach here, we seem to using lockdown as a sticky plaster in the vain hope that we will have a vaccine in the short term.
Sweden had 1,180 cases a few days ago

They are still weeks behind us in their wave because they took longer to come out of their first wave

From what I can make out there is growing anger in Sweden at how they've handled things

Nope, Sweden never entered draconian lockdown measures, they will have a more steady flow of the virus.

When you cage an animal and then release it into the wild, what happens?

We need to learn to live with it. The government strategy seems to be lockdown to get numbers down before we open up and enter another lockdown. The consequences of this strategy is going to be absolutely catastrophic on society.

The current data shows the fatality rates of the virus has dropped by double digit multiples since the first wave, we don't know why but that's what it shows.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 03:05:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:57:36 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 02:42:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:38:56 PM

That is down to a failure of government, but it doesn't change the epidemiological reality

This is way beyond epidemiological the societal effects now and going forward are horrendous.
What are you proposing to fix the problem?

Let folk live.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 03:06:14 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:56:35 PM
You're a very angry man Seaney  ;D

If you include ICU you're a magnitude of 6 down...

I see where you're coming from and I think it's went a bit mad with the lockdowns but if it keeps going how it's going this last few weeks we're in big bother. What were the stats today? 1765 NHS staff / health workers are currently off sick? Basically something needs done and they don't know what to do.

That's astounding, so if one doesn't comply to the narrative you can infer anger through several posts?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 03:06:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:02:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:47:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:36:05 PM
This thing comes in waves angelo. It is very hard to tell whether we are in the same place as them wave wise. There are many articles you could find to tell you how terrible the swedish approach is for every one that tells you how good it is.

It will come in waves when your lock people up for months and then open things up again.

Or you can try and live with it like the Swedes are doing.

The Swedes seem to be taking a long term approach here, we seem to using lockdown as a sticky plaster in the vain hope that we will have a vaccine in the short term.
Sweden had 1,180 cases a few days ago

They are still weeks behind us in their wave because they took longer to come out of their first wave

From what I can make out there is growing anger in Sweden at how they've handled things

Nope, Sweden never entered draconian lockdown measures, they will have a more steady flow of the virus.

When you cage an animal and then release it into the wild, what happens?

We need to learn to live with it. The government strategy seems to be lockdown to get numbers down before we open up and enter another lockdown. The consequences of this strategy is going to be absolutely catastrophic on society.

The current data shows the fatality rates of the virus has dropped by double digit multiples since the first wave, we don't know why but that's what it shows.
Why is Sweden now moving towards a model much more in line with the rest of Europe?

Because their strategy didn't work

https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-sweden-anti-lockdown-new-restrictions-cases-rise-1540243?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1603115177
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 03:07:56 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 03:05:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:57:36 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 02:42:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:38:56 PM

That is down to a failure of government, but it doesn't change the epidemiological reality

This is way beyond epidemiological the societal effects now and going forward are horrendous.
What are you proposing to fix the problem?

Let folk live.
But by doing that, a hell of a lot more people will die

A slogan isn't a plan
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:10:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 03:06:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:02:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:47:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:36:05 PM
This thing comes in waves angelo. It is very hard to tell whether we are in the same place as them wave wise. There are many articles you could find to tell you how terrible the swedish approach is for every one that tells you how good it is.

It will come in waves when your lock people up for months and then open things up again.

Or you can try and live with it like the Swedes are doing.

The Swedes seem to be taking a long term approach here, we seem to using lockdown as a sticky plaster in the vain hope that we will have a vaccine in the short term.
Sweden had 1,180 cases a few days ago

They are still weeks behind us in their wave because they took longer to come out of their first wave

From what I can make out there is growing anger in Sweden at how they've handled things

Nope, Sweden never entered draconian lockdown measures, they will have a more steady flow of the virus.

When you cage an animal and then release it into the wild, what happens?

We need to learn to live with it. The government strategy seems to be lockdown to get numbers down before we open up and enter another lockdown. The consequences of this strategy is going to be absolutely catastrophic on society.

The current data shows the fatality rates of the virus has dropped by double digit multiples since the first wave, we don't know why but that's what it shows.
Why is Sweden now moving towards a model much more in line with the rest of Europe?

Because their strategy didn't work

https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-sweden-anti-lockdown-new-restrictions-cases-rise-1540243?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1603115177

Sweden is not moving towards a lockdown model.

Their incidence rate is one of the lowest in Europe. You are being completely disingenuous here and misleading.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 03:11:08 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 03:06:14 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:56:35 PM
You're a very angry man Seaney  ;D

If you include ICU you're a magnitude of 6 down...

I see where you're coming from and I think it's went a bit mad with the lockdowns but if it keeps going how it's going this last few weeks we're in big bother. What were the stats today? 1765 NHS staff / health workers are currently off sick? Basically something needs done and they don't know what to do.

That's astounding, so if one doesn't comply to the narrative you can infer anger through several posts?

Just through some comments on your posts...

Look I see where you're coming from but this thing is spiraling. We're up (in the north) about 250% in hospital admissions from it in 2 weeks. That needs to get bounded somehow.

Letting folk live is fine but there needs to be some kind of restrictions somewhere. What if it grows 250% in the next 2 weeks? Big trouble.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 03:07:56 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 03:05:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:57:36 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 02:42:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:38:56 PM

That is down to a failure of government, but it doesn't change the epidemiological reality

This is way beyond epidemiological the societal effects now and going forward are horrendous.
What are you proposing to fix the problem?

Let folk live.
But by doing that, a hell of a lot more people will die

A slogan isn't a plan

And you want me to give the solution - what isn't the solution is causing more deaths with the cure than the cause, at this stage everyone knows who the most vulnerable are, care homes are basically closed, education and social responsibility are a better way forward than lockdowns.  What is your plan, your end game, keep everyone locked up until a mystery untested vaccine appears?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on October 20, 2020, 03:13:45 PM
How about people follow the rules and stop going about their lives as if there's nothing wrong? Might be less calls for lockdowns then.

It's worked pretty well so far here in NYC, which had a huge outbreak at the outset in the spring. Aside from recent very localized restrictions imposed due to the conduct of certain groups, we are moving along all right. No Broadway shows or cinemas or games/concerts in the Garden, but you can go to a museum or get a drink and sit inside a restaurant, albeit one that is not packed out. But then this is a liberal city where most of us sheeple people are happy to wear masks and pay heed to social distancing and hygiene recommendations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:14:16 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 03:11:08 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 03:06:14 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:56:35 PM
You're a very angry man Seaney  ;D

If you include ICU you're a magnitude of 6 down...

I see where you're coming from and I think it's went a bit mad with the lockdowns but if it keeps going how it's going this last few weeks we're in big bother. What were the stats today? 1765 NHS staff / health workers are currently off sick? Basically something needs done and they don't know what to do.

That's astounding, so if one doesn't comply to the narrative you can infer anger through several posts?

Just through some comments on your posts...

Look I see where you're coming from but this thing is spiraling. We're up (in the north) about 250% in hospital admissions from it in 2 weeks. That needs to get bounded somehow.

Letting folk live is fine but there needs to be some kind of restrictions somewhere. What if it grows 250% in the next 2 weeks? Big trouble.

What if it doesn't grow 250% in 2 weeks?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 03:15:20 PM
You are some craic ;D

Ok so if it doesn't grow and you're over prepared is that not better than if you do nothing and then the arse falls out of the whole thing and there are not even any beds left?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 03:17:29 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 03:11:08 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 03:06:14 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:56:35 PM
You're a very angry man Seaney  ;D

If you include ICU you're a magnitude of 6 down...

I see where you're coming from and I think it's went a bit mad with the lockdowns but if it keeps going how it's going this last few weeks we're in big bother. What were the stats today? 1765 NHS staff / health workers are currently off sick? Basically something needs done and they don't know what to do.

That's astounding, so if one doesn't comply to the narrative you can infer anger through several posts?

Just through some comments on your posts...

Look I see where you're coming from but this thing is spiraling. We're up (in the north) about 250% in hospital admissions from it in 2 weeks. That needs to get bounded somehow.

Letting folk live is fine but there needs to be some kind of restrictions somewhere. What if it grows 250% in the next 2 weeks? Big trouble.

And what if it doesn't and what if someone locked up takes the head staggers as they have lost their job and goes on a rampage, and what of in the next two weeks we see a spiral suicide rate, hundreds of business closing,  folk dying because they hare afraid to go to A&E with chest pains or the likes, apologies if certain words make you conclude that I am a very angry man, maybe frustrated by the narrative that is achieving nothing but huge societal damage is more apt.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 20, 2020, 03:19:25 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2020, 02:26:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:41:11 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2020, 01:38:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:26:44 PM
On what basis is it quite likely right?

The thing about March and April is an outlier an anomaly. Spain have had nearly 3 times the no of positive cases in the past 2 months than they had back in March and April and the fatality rate per cases has fallen in double digit multiples - why is that? Surely that deserves to be highlighted and examined and the current data should be the one guiding our decisions rather than anomalies 6/7 months ago.

The mood around the vaccine. That's a mood - nothing is concrete but I'll put it to you this way. A vaccine comes out next year - I have two options:

a) Take a vaccine rushed through production stage, with very limited test results and no basis of potential side effects
b) Take my chances with a virus that probably presents nothing more that mild symptoms for 99.5% of my demograph

More testing.

Not up north. We are only doing 4-5k tests a day and returning circa 20% positive rates.

If you were to convert the fatality rates as accurate now and consider them consistent with the no of cases in the first wave it would mean that rather than 6,229 positive cases by the end of July we would actually would have had 150k people infected.

That's close to 10% of the population.

More testing is definitely part of the reason. In April we were testing under 1000 a day. It's not the only factor, There are other factors like improved treatment, lower age group of infected who are able to fight it better, lag in death rates compared to todays infection rates etc. But increased testing is definitely part of the reason we have higher case to death ratio. And yes I do believe there's been more infected in NI that was believed initially.

Testing numbers in the north are an order of magnitude greater than in the early days of the pandemic. Angelo does not seem to have factored this into his thesis about falling mortality rates.
(https://i.ibb.co/fQ59c15/Screenshot-2020-10-20-at-14-43-34.png) (https://ibb.co/52yk7My)

A 20% positive test return rate and 4-5000 tests a day are also not accurate. Not the first time his figures have been off on this thread.
(https://i.ibb.co/3YYQwwZ/Screenshot-2020-10-20-at-14-47-08.png) (https://ibb.co/CssDqqG)

For anyone still in doubt, this is not a person that wants to have this discussion in good faith. His numbers are, and have been, routinely exaggerated, misinterpreted, or distorted to suit a narrative.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 03:22:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:10:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 03:06:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:02:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:54:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:47:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 02:36:05 PM
This thing comes in waves angelo. It is very hard to tell whether we are in the same place as them wave wise. There are many articles you could find to tell you how terrible the swedish approach is for every one that tells you how good it is.

It will come in waves when your lock people up for months and then open things up again.

Or you can try and live with it like the Swedes are doing.

The Swedes seem to be taking a long term approach here, we seem to using lockdown as a sticky plaster in the vain hope that we will have a vaccine in the short term.
Sweden had 1,180 cases a few days ago

They are still weeks behind us in their wave because they took longer to come out of their first wave

From what I can make out there is growing anger in Sweden at how they've handled things

Nope, Sweden never entered draconian lockdown measures, they will have a more steady flow of the virus.

When you cage an animal and then release it into the wild, what happens?

We need to learn to live with it. The government strategy seems to be lockdown to get numbers down before we open up and enter another lockdown. The consequences of this strategy is going to be absolutely catastrophic on society.

The current data shows the fatality rates of the virus has dropped by double digit multiples since the first wave, we don't know why but that's what it shows.
Why is Sweden now moving towards a model much more in line with the rest of Europe?

Because their strategy didn't work

https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-sweden-anti-lockdown-new-restrictions-cases-rise-1540243?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1603115177

Sweden is not moving towards a lockdown model.

Their incidence rate is one of the lowest in Europe. You are being completely disingenuous here and misleading.
Read the article I linked to

Sweden has one of the highest death rates in Europe and is in the top ten in the world

They have failed spectacularly compared to their neighbours and failed spectacularly in any objective sense

I find it bizarre how anybody would want to copy Sweden rather than Norway, Denmark or Finland

It'd be like a county team looking for a blueprint for how to achieve inter-county success, and deciding to copy Derry rather than Tyrone or Donegal
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 03:24:48 PM
To a point I agree with you tbh. I think they need to start looking at specifics of lockdown measures.

However for the minute in the north it is out of control. Growing at 250% in 2-2.5 weeks could lead to catastrophe and lots of it. Something needs to be done. One thing about consequences of lockdown is that while there is no doubt there are very negative implications they aren't really quantifiable while with the cases here you imagine nothing done equals steady rate of growth(the argument could be made for exponential too) or worse so it's quantifiable.

If I were in Wales and the rates it were at I'd be more peeved about the lockdown than here. It is pretty much out of control for a place this small to have the numbers it does.

I am not sold on the pubs shutting assuming the owners are doing the right things but schools and universities IMO have done a lot here and they need to be asking questions on them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:27:27 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 20, 2020, 03:19:25 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2020, 02:26:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:41:11 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2020, 01:38:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:26:44 PM
On what basis is it quite likely right?

The thing about March and April is an outlier an anomaly. Spain have had nearly 3 times the no of positive cases in the past 2 months than they had back in March and April and the fatality rate per cases has fallen in double digit multiples - why is that? Surely that deserves to be highlighted and examined and the current data should be the one guiding our decisions rather than anomalies 6/7 months ago.

The mood around the vaccine. That's a mood - nothing is concrete but I'll put it to you this way. A vaccine comes out next year - I have two options:

a) Take a vaccine rushed through production stage, with very limited test results and no basis of potential side effects
b) Take my chances with a virus that probably presents nothing more that mild symptoms for 99.5% of my demograph

More testing.

Not up north. We are only doing 4-5k tests a day and returning circa 20% positive rates.

If you were to convert the fatality rates as accurate now and consider them consistent with the no of cases in the first wave it would mean that rather than 6,229 positive cases by the end of July we would actually would have had 150k people infected.

That's close to 10% of the population.

More testing is definitely part of the reason. In April we were testing under 1000 a day. It's not the only factor, There are other factors like improved treatment, lower age group of infected who are able to fight it better, lag in death rates compared to todays infection rates etc. But increased testing is definitely part of the reason we have higher case to death ratio. And yes I do believe there's been more infected in NI that was believed initially.

Testing numbers in the north are an order of magnitude greater than in the early days of the pandemic. Angelo does not seem to have factored this into his thesis about falling mortality rates.
(https://i.ibb.co/fQ59c15/Screenshot-2020-10-20-at-14-43-34.png) (https://ibb.co/52yk7My)

A 20% positive test return rate and 4-5000 tests a day are also not accurate. Not the first time his figures have been off on this thread.
(https://i.ibb.co/3YYQwwZ/Screenshot-2020-10-20-at-14-47-08.png) (https://ibb.co/CssDqqG)

For anyone still in doubt, this is not a person that wants to have this discussion in good faith. His numbers are, and have been, routinely exaggerated, misinterpreted, or distorted to suit a narrative.

Around 20% positive rates have been the avg in the past few weeks and it has been steadily in and around that figure.

Fatality rates have dropped by double digit multiples in between the two waves, from 7% to 0.29%.

They are facts based on the data available.

In likelihood both the fatality rate figures are both much likely lower as the testing system does not catch all positive cases.

So you're only strengthening my case.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:29:52 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 03:24:48 PM
To a point I agree with you tbh. I think they need to start looking at specifics of lockdown measures.

However for the minute in the north it is out of control. Growing at 250% in 2-2.5 weeks could lead to catastrophe and lots of it. Something needs to be done. One thing about consequences of lockdown is that while there is no doubt there are very negative implications they aren't really quantifiable while with the cases here you imagine nothing done equals steady rate of growth(the argument could be made for exponential too) or worse so it's quantifiable.

If I were in Wales and the rates it were at I'd be more peeved about the lockdown than here. It is pretty much out of control for a place this small to have the numbers it does.

I am not sold on the pubs shutting assuming the owners are doing the right things but schools and universities IMO have done a lot here and they need to be asking questions on them.

It looks as though the virus has stagnated now, we are having fairly similar daily numbers for the past fortnight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 03:33:16 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 03:13:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 03:07:56 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 03:05:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:57:36 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 02:42:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:38:56 PM

That is down to a failure of government, but it doesn't change the epidemiological reality

This is way beyond epidemiological the societal effects now and going forward are horrendous.
What are you proposing to fix the problem?

Let folk live.
But by doing that, a hell of a lot more people will die

A slogan isn't a plan

And you want me to give the solution - what isn't the solution is causing more deaths with the cure than the cause, at this stage everyone knows who the most vulnerable are, care homes are basically closed, education and social responsibility are a better way forward than lockdowns.  What is your plan, your end game, keep everyone locked up until a mystery untested vaccine appears?
Again, that's a slogan

Given you're so unhappy with what's happening currently I think it's only fair to ask you what your proposed solution is, as the implication is that you have one

If you want to "live", Zero Covid would seem a much better strategy than "let it rip"

But three months ago was the time to implement that - doing so now would be a lot harder, and nobody in government either north or south seems to want to entertain the idea

The other solution would be to have a world class find, test, trace and isolate system

But again, it seems we cant do that, perhaps because we don't have the capacity, perhaps because government aren't willing to invest enough, perhaps a combination of those

But let it rip is not a strategy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 20, 2020, 03:40:32 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on October 20, 2020, 02:11:16 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 20, 2020, 01:26:14 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 12:24:52 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54612567

The flu yer man said.

The 55 covid patients is now 72 and ICU currently has its highest number since the pandemic started.
Do you know how many are in ICU JoG?

6 as of 9am
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 20, 2020, 03:45:35 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 03:05:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:57:36 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 02:42:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 02:38:56 PM

That is down to a failure of government, but it doesn't change the epidemiological reality

This is way beyond epidemiological the societal effects now and going forward are horrendous.
What are you proposing to fix the problem?

Let folk live.

Ah ha... Just get on with it?! It's that simple (in social media land)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 03:57:53 PM
We could shout "Boooo" at it.
Makes as much sense as some of the absolute ráiméis from a few here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 04:01:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 03:57:53 PM
We could shout "Boooo" at it.
Makes as much sense as some of the absolute ráiméis from a few here.

That's about the level of input we could genuinely expect from an assclown like yourself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 04:06:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:29:52 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 03:24:48 PM
To a point I agree with you tbh. I think they need to start looking at specifics of lockdown measures.

However for the minute in the north it is out of control. Growing at 250% in 2-2.5 weeks could lead to catastrophe and lots of it. Something needs to be done. One thing about consequences of lockdown is that while there is no doubt there are very negative implications they aren't really quantifiable while with the cases here you imagine nothing done equals steady rate of growth(the argument could be made for exponential too) or worse so it's quantifiable.

If I were in Wales and the rates it were at I'd be more peeved about the lockdown than here. It is pretty much out of control for a place this small to have the numbers it does.

I am not sold on the pubs shutting assuming the owners are doing the right things but schools and universities IMO have done a lot here and they need to be asking questions on them.

It looks as though the virus has stagnated now, we are having fairly similar daily numbers for the past fortnight.

It has stagnated at ~1000 cases a day? That's a different version of the word stagnated than I would use...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 20, 2020, 04:06:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:27:27 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 20, 2020, 03:19:25 PM
Testing numbers in the north are an order of magnitude greater than in the early days of the pandemic. Angelo does not seem to have factored this into his thesis about falling mortality rates.
(https://i.ibb.co/fQ59c15/Screenshot-2020-10-20-at-14-43-34.png) (https://ibb.co/52yk7My)

A 20% positive test return rate and 4-5000 tests a day are also not accurate. Not the first time his figures have been off on this thread.
(https://i.ibb.co/3YYQwwZ/Screenshot-2020-10-20-at-14-47-08.png) (https://ibb.co/CssDqqG)

For anyone still in doubt, this is not a person that wants to have this discussion in good faith. His numbers are, and have been, routinely exaggerated, misinterpreted, or distorted to suit a narrative.

Around 20% positive rates have been the avg in the past few weeks and it has been steadily in and around that figure.

Fatality rates have dropped by double digit multiples in between the two waves, from 7% to 0.29%.

They are facts based on the data available.

In likelihood both the fatality rate figures are both much likely lower as the testing system does not catch all positive cases.

So you're only strengthening my case.

The graphs above, taken from the official figures, literally show that this is not true. Yet you still try to argue black is white.

Against my better judgement I decided to interact with you here again. And again you have demonstrated no interest in having a genuine discussion. There is no point trying to talk to someone that refuses to deal with facts. Refuses to acknowledge reality.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on October 20, 2020, 04:08:24 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2020, 02:46:40 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 02:20:39 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 20, 2020, 02:15:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:01:43 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:05:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 12:21:39 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 12:15:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 12:01:28 PM
The "let it rip" merchants seem to have forgotten the awful scenes from Italy last spring, a Country which has a very good health service which was totally overcome as Covud was ripping.
They also overlook the fact that the restrictions lowered the rate of infection.
"Health Officials on a power trip".
Such a ludicrous comment straight from the Gemma school of right wing nut job fuckwittery.
The less people getting Covid translates into more beds for people with other illnesses and more ICU beds for people who need major operations etc.

But sod them just "let it rip" and sure all will be fine.

It is a headline one would expect to see in the Sun, disproportionate and made with the only rational to get a reaction, it is quite pathetic that folk go down this route - there is no end game here - no vaccine will come to our aid, we have to learn to live with it, but you conclude that that means let it rip!

we tried living with it... numbers increased again after lockdown 1 so living with it is effectively lerting it rip or herd immunity approach..

if there is a successful way to live with it i am sure we wpuld all love to hear it and so would the governments of the world.

We tried living with it?

Cases increased.

0.11 are in ICU.

Sweden are living with it at present. Their 14 day incidence rate is currently much lower than the rest of Europe.

What happens next time we come out of lockdown? Numbers surge back up again and we lock back down again, how on earth is this a viable short term solution. Crossing our fingers and hoping a vaccine comes is not a viable solution, it's absolutely insane.

bery selective quoting.. you can speculate to back you your viewpoint but suddenly its all guesswork when i ask you to example your living wiyh covid approach... also you stidys and experts are trustworthy but any that disagree with your opinion is guesswork!!!

, i am glad  that in the above post you finally acknowledge that if we come out of lockdown cases will surge back up again, when we go back to living with covid.. i.e your approach...

so your apprich will continue  the surge and our health is not capable of dealing with. as for you social distanicng washing hands etc.. we are doing that now it hasnt worked as people dont adhere for a variety of reasons..

finally, there are things we can do to support people with dperession, suffers of addiction or  domestic violance etc. we did it before and it still presists and we can do more if there is a will either during or after lockdown.

Selective.

You keeping pointing out to speculation but all you have offered to counter that is your speculation. I find it staggering you cannot see the irony there.

What also can't be sustained is coming in and out of lockdowns, lockdowns haven't worked - we went into one, came out of it and are now going back into one. So please God tell me, how the last lockdown actually managed to work?

There aren't things we can do to support them, domestic violence cases will inevitably rise with lockdowns and there's not a whole pile you can do?

So what's your strategy - remain in lockdown until there's a vaccine - how is that any sort of progressive long term solution?

Lockdowns do work. The first one worked perfectly, it got the R rate down so the NHS could cope.  Hopefully this one will work as well. We'll probably need another short one around Christmas and maybe in February before the vaccine is rolled out in spring.

The NHS is under pressure every year due to government cuts, the nightingale hospitals remained largely empty - in that time all hospital appointments were cancelled, cancer diagnosis were missed, cancer treatment were stopped, my mother fell and broke her hip at Easter, I wasn't allowed in to see her but went to drop bags down on a Saturday evening A&E was empty - I was the only none medical person knocking around, disproportionate response is an understatement.

This is worthy of discussion. And I do think the NHS need to review how they are handling on going treatments of patients. As a complete shutdown is not right in my eyes. I think it needs to try to keep moving. However there has to be an understanding that NHS workers need to be protected as well, so there will be delays as compared to none covid times. I think some Doctors and surgeons have actually come out to say that they need to try and keep things moving as the backlog will be impossible otherwise. And I would hope that this is something that is being looked at.
One of the best ways of doing this is reducing the strain on the NHS so that more and more operations and treatments can be accommodated. One of the best ways of reducing the strain on the NHS is to reduce the impact of Covid. Covid patients ARE taking up a disproportionate segment of the NHS because they get priority. This happens with none covid patients as well. You can be scheduled for an operation and find out there's been a car crash and the theater is in use and have to be re-scheduled. If something urgent comes in then priorities change within hospitals. That's why reducing the numbers coming to the hospitals is vital. Lockdowns are far from ideal, and if there is a better method of reducing those numbers then I would love to hear it. But if the number of hospitalisations continue to increase, then something has to be done or cancer patients, selective surgeries etc will all be cancelled anyway AND we'll have a covid nightmare on top of that.

The UK Government looked at Italy and made the conscious decision that the NHS would not be overrun by Covid in the same manner and in doing this cleared the decks of hospital wards into the Care Sector as well as cancel all other treatments due to the total lack of capacity in the system.
The NHS in NI is even worse off and Robin took a similar stance which is OK for a short period of time but not for the duration it did happen and doing the same now is also wrong.
Cancer treatments and the likes need to go ahead as normal IMO.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 04:12:26 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 04:06:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:29:52 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 03:24:48 PM
To a point I agree with you tbh. I think they need to start looking at specifics of lockdown measures.

However for the minute in the north it is out of control. Growing at 250% in 2-2.5 weeks could lead to catastrophe and lots of it. Something needs to be done. One thing about consequences of lockdown is that while there is no doubt there are very negative implications they aren't really quantifiable while with the cases here you imagine nothing done equals steady rate of growth(the argument could be made for exponential too) or worse so it's quantifiable.

If I were in Wales and the rates it were at I'd be more peeved about the lockdown than here. It is pretty much out of control for a place this small to have the numbers it does.

I am not sold on the pubs shutting assuming the owners are doing the right things but schools and universities IMO have done a lot here and they need to be asking questions on them.

It looks as though the virus has stagnated now, we are having fairly similar daily numbers for the past fortnight.

It has stagnated at ~1000 cases a day? That's a different version of the word stagnated than I would use...

Yes, it's been at circa 1k cases a day for over a fortnight without any major fluctuation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 20, 2020, 04:13:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 04:01:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 03:57:53 PM
We could shout "Boooo" at it.
Makes as much sense as some of the absolute ráiméis from a few here.

That's about the level of input we could genuinely expect from an assclown like yourself.

A joke is much more welcome than some of your 'facts' Angelo tbh. Testing wise, we're not doing more than March / April in the North? Take Derry City for example, 3 test centres now (the latest testing centre maned by a team over from England), all flat to the mat. Compare this to 1 centre in March / April. Take a break, seriously, this cannot be healthy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 04:14:09 PM
Cancer treatments are still happening though not as many. I think one key issue is they are constantly planning for having lot less resources because staff will be out. Seeing that, up north, 1765 staff are out with isolating or positive tests does make you realise to a degree that has to be done.

SHO/JHOs and that kind of level also get shifted with this kind of thing.

There's definitely a balance here which just doesn't seem to be being found though it can't be easy. Letting it rip is certainly not that balance lol. I suppose we are stagnating at a steady 1000 cases a day though ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 04:17:31 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 20, 2020, 04:13:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 04:01:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 03:57:53 PM
We could shout "Boooo" at it.
Makes as much sense as some of the absolute ráiméis from a few here.

That's about the level of input we could genuinely expect from an assclown like yourself.

A joke is much more welcome than some of your 'facts' Angelo tbh. Testing wise, we're not doing more than March / April in the North? Take Derry City for example, 3 test centres now (the latest testing centre maned by a team over from England), all flat to the mat. Compare this to 1 centre in March / April. Take a break, seriously, this cannot be healthy

So what you seem to be telling us is that the actual fatality rate in Mar/Apr was probably around 0.29%?

That actual cases in Mar/Apr/May were probably around 150k rather than 6k?

Or what are you saying?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 04:22:52 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 04:14:09 PM
Cancer treatments are still happening though not as many. I think one key issue is they are constantly planning for having lot less resources because staff will be out. Seeing that, up north, 1765 staff are out with isolating or positive tests does make you realise to a degree that has to be done.

SHO/JHOs and that kind of level also get shifted with this kind of thing.

There's definitely a balance here which just doesn't seem to be being found though it can't be easy. Letting it rip is certainly not that balance lol. I suppose we are stagnating at a steady 1000 cases a day though ;D

Yeah, I think you should first of all learn what stagnate actually means rather than making an arse out of yourself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 04:26:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 04:22:52 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 04:14:09 PM
Cancer treatments are still happening though not as many. I think one key issue is they are constantly planning for having lot less resources because staff will be out. Seeing that, up north, 1765 staff are out with isolating or positive tests does make you realise to a degree that has to be done.

SHO/JHOs and that kind of level also get shifted with this kind of thing.

There's definitely a balance here which just doesn't seem to be being found though it can't be easy. Letting it rip is certainly not that balance lol. I suppose we are stagnating at a steady 1000 cases a day though ;D

Yeah, I think you should first of all learn what stagnate actually means rather than making an arse out of yourself.

;D What's that saying.

Aye, dead on ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 20, 2020, 04:29:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:29:52 PM
It looks as though the virus has stagnated now, we are having fairly similar daily numbers for the past fortnight.

Here are the most recent figure seven day average case figures for the north, incase anyone wants to have a discussion grounded in actual reality.

(https://i.ibb.co/YtwPvxX/Screenshot-2020-10-20-at-16-20-42.png) (https://ibb.co/wKjBDf7)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 04:30:12 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 04:26:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 04:22:52 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 04:14:09 PM
Cancer treatments are still happening though not as many. I think one key issue is they are constantly planning for having lot less resources because staff will be out. Seeing that, up north, 1765 staff are out with isolating or positive tests does make you realise to a degree that has to be done.

SHO/JHOs and that kind of level also get shifted with this kind of thing.

There's definitely a balance here which just doesn't seem to be being found though it can't be easy. Letting it rip is certainly not that balance lol. I suppose we are stagnating at a steady 1000 cases a day though ;D

Yeah, I think you should first of all learn what stagnate actually means rather than making an arse out of yourself.

;D What's that saying.

Aye, dead on ;D

The type of dullard comment you'd expect from a lad who has got himself too far in.

The emojis say it all, a beaten docket.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 04:32:12 PM
Yes I'm out of my depth with the boy who has the intellect dripping out of him.

Anyway. Get back to arguing with everyone. This throwing insults is of no interest to me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 04:35:25 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 20, 2020, 04:29:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:29:52 PM
It looks as though the virus has stagnated now, we are having fairly similar daily numbers for the past fortnight.

Here are the most recent figure seven day average case figures for the north, incase anyone wants to have a discussion grounded in actual reality.

(https://i.ibb.co/YtwPvxX/Screenshot-2020-10-20-at-16-20-42.png) (https://ibb.co/wKjBDf7)

Thanks for proving my point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 04:36:06 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 04:32:12 PM
Yes I'm out of my depth with the boy who has the intellect dripping out of him.

Anyway. Get back to arguing with everyone. This throwing insults is of no interest to me.

You're of your depth when you fail to understand words and make a point of showing everyone that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 04:40:09 PM
Honestly you are either a WUM or about as big a balloon as it is possible to find. Which is it?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 04:41:25 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 04:40:09 PM
Honestly you are either a WUM or about as big a balloon as it is possible to find. Which is it?

Neither, I'm just giving you a little lesson in what happens when you try and be a smartass but don't have the wits to go with it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 05:05:36 PM
I have always thought column b. Qed  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on October 20, 2020, 05:08:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 04:41:25 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 04:40:09 PM
Honestly you are either a WUM or about as big a balloon as it is possible to find. Which is it?

Neither, I'm just giving you a little lesson in what happens when you try and be a smartass but don't have the wits to go with it.
Angelo would you be interested in conducting some webinars? I'm just in awe on how your wiping the floor with everyone, bamboozling them with alternative facts and figures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2020, 05:23:27 PM
1,269 cases in the saorsát today

13 (thirteen) deaths

All deaths recent

Looks like a few posters (hi Fulvio, sorry, Angelo) will have to look up what "lag" means again
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2020, 07:37:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 19, 2020, 08:28:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 05:06:57 PM
Those people with Covid tunnel vision have absolutely no interest in looking at the consequences of using lockdowns and restrictions to fight it, maybe you should look at the bigger picture for once.

Current case fatality rate here is 4% (time weighted for day of contraction).

I was going to say that is overly pessimistic and take 1% instead. But, if we followed your course (which you don't outline, but the assumption must be that it is light touch), then the health services would collapse and you would see 4% as a minimum death rate over the long term

Then with your world of minimal restrictions, how many get the virus? Half the population before herd immunity effects kick in? (Half being optimistic, usual thought train is around 70% of populace needs to be immune.)

So, half the population of the north is 1.8 million. Half of that is 900k. 4% of that is 36k people.

In 2018, 15,922 people died in the north. You are advocating doubling the annual death rate in response to worries over intangible forecasts elsewhere.


Big picture? You don't have a f**king clue. Not surprising the man that cannot grasp the difference between fractions and percentages cannot play with big numbers.

Did Angelo respond to this one? Or did I miss it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 08:25:58 PM
312 now in Hospital in the 26 with 34 in ICU.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on October 20, 2020, 09:52:09 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 20, 2020, 04:40:09 PM
Honestly you are either a WUM or about as big a balloon as it is possible to find. Which is it?
Clearly the latter. I pity anyone who takes the time to read any of his nonsense!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 10:57:11 PM
Spotlight
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 11:18:42 PM
Proportionate response, watch it, all the experts here advocating lockdown and a covid state should be ashamed. Swann is on a power trip and the folk following the media narrative is astounding.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 11:21:44 PM
i didnt see it all but i didnt see lockdown being called out as the cause. the health system was not meeting demand pre covid.. huge waiting lists... covid has made it worst... i didnt hear mention of lockdown in the section i listened too... it was all about what the pandemic had caused not what lockdown had caused...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 11:23:33 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 11:21:44 PM
i didnt see it all but i didnt see lockdown being called out as the cause. the health system was not meeting demand pre covid.. huge waiting lists... covid has made it worst... i didnt hear mention of lockdown in the section i listened too... it was all about what the pandemic had caused not what lockdown had caused...

It's on demand why not watch it, then comment or do you not like facts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 11:24:57 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 11:21:44 PM
i didnt see it all but i didnt see lockdown being called out as the cause. the health system was not meeting demand pre covid.. huge waiting lists... covid has made it worst... i didnt hear mention of lockdown in the section i listened too... it was all about what the pandemic had caused not what lockdown had caused...

So you watched a bit that backed your argument up, you watched it or you didn't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 11:26:50 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 11:21:44 PM
i didnt see it all but i didnt see lockdown being called out as the cause. the health system was not meeting demand pre covid.. huge waiting lists... covid has made it worst... i didnt hear mention of lockdown in the section i listened too... it was all about what the pandemic had caused not what lockdown had caused...

Watch it all, it has a few specialists chatting, though they probably don't fit into the narrative of the mainstream media.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 20, 2020, 11:38:52 PM
you posted "spotlight".. i saw it, i turned it on...so i didnt see it all. did it mention lockdown? i might if i get a chance watch it tomorrow. from the bit i did see it was health servixe failures due to reduced capacity due to the pandemic, not lockdown.

say for example hospital capacity is, 100 units can be completed a day. However, 110 capacity is required. Every day the backlog list grows by 10. Covid comes along and capacity reduces to 80 (due to infectious nature, staff reductions due to covid) and 120 capacity is now required due to covid cases) backlog goes by 40 per day.

lockdown helps reduce the 40 per day backlog as it reduces covid cases and increase capacity.

no lockdown means more cases which mean backlog increases.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 20, 2020, 11:46:42 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 11:18:42 PM
Proportionate response, watch it, all the experts here advocating lockdown and a covid state should be ashamed. Swann is on a power trip and the folk following the media narrative is astounding.

If only your response was proportionate. What on earth is a Covid State? Hysterical nonsense, no harm to you. You'd be better walking up and down your local area with a big placard telling folk to wear a mask in shops, clean your hands and keep your distance. Time better spent than in here
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 11:50:30 PM
Bit suspicious of that lad....became a member 16th October and non stop posting today of right wing shite .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2020, 11:52:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2020, 07:37:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 19, 2020, 08:28:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 05:06:57 PM
Those people with Covid tunnel vision have absolutely no interest in looking at the consequences of using lockdowns and restrictions to fight it, maybe you should look at the bigger picture for once.

Current case fatality rate here is 4% (time weighted for day of contraction).

I was going to say that is overly pessimistic and take 1% instead. But, if we followed your course (which you don't outline, but the assumption must be that it is light touch), then the health services would collapse and you would see 4% as a minimum death rate over the long term

Then with your world of minimal restrictions, how many get the virus? Half the population before herd immunity effects kick in? (Half being optimistic, usual thought train is around 70% of populace needs to be immune.)

So, half the population of the north is 1.8 million. Half of that is 900k. 4% of that is 36k people.

In 2018, 15,922 people died in the north. You are advocating doubling the annual death rate in response to worries over intangible forecasts elsewhere.


Big picture? You don't have a f**king clue. Not surprising the man that cannot grasp the difference between fractions and percentages cannot play with big numbers.

Did Angelo respond to this one? Or did I miss it?

Has anyone seen Angelo? Tyrone thread? Tennis?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 07:05:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 20, 2020, 11:50:30 PM
Bit suspicious of that lad....became a member 16th October and non stop posting today of right wing shite .

::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 07:08:25 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 20, 2020, 11:46:42 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 20, 2020, 11:18:42 PM
Proportionate response, watch it, all the experts here advocating lockdown and a covid state should be ashamed. Swann is on a power trip and the folk following the media narrative is astounding.

If only your response was proportionate. What on earth is a Covid State? Hysterical nonsense, no harm to you. You'd be better walking up and down your local area with a big placard telling folk to wear a mask in shops, clean your hands and keep your distance. Time better spent than in here

You appear to spend quite a bit of time in here yourself, I follow the rules, what are you doing to assist society.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 21, 2020, 08:04:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 02:25:00 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 02:14:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:21:48 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 01:14:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:06:31 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 01:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 01:00:21 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 20, 2020, 12:24:52 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54612567

The flu yer man said.

Yes the flu.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/flu-and-bed-shortage-responsible-for-record-trolley-numbers-says-taoiseach-1.4131634

I must have missed the masks and hand sanitiser in the shops last January.  ::)

I must have missed the lockdowns and restrictive measures in January when the season flu was overwhelming the health service. Just as long as its not Covid doing it, right?

Not for the first time you completely fail to understand.

There's a stereotype of the big aul thick Tyrone man that loves Celtic, the Ra and a good fight, but has his brains in his arse.

Always thought it was unfair.

I see it now.

Not for the first time when the debate requires a bit of substance you resort to banal snide insults.

You just lack any conviction in yourself.

Myself and plenty of other have been through the data with you.

You don't understand it.

To the point that you laughably posted data yourself which totally disproved the point you were trying to make. ;D

I could go through your posts and pull out some of the ridiculous names your thrown at other posters here but I haven't the time nor inclination to embarrass you any further.  Your continued uneducated ramblings do that for themselves.

You must have imagined that.

You've shouted and then ran off when things have got a bit heavy for you.

Like I said.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 21, 2020, 09:34:40 AM
Could be the start of it, legal action on the way a la Liverpool gyms -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54626760
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 21, 2020, 11:13:42 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 21, 2020, 09:34:40 AM
Could be the start of it, legal action on the way a la Liverpool gyms -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54626760

They have to get R well below 1 in NI given the high number of cases, and they have to close a lot of things. Gyms are not at necessary to society, you can walk up and down the stairs if you want to keep fit, and things that are not necessary should not be open when numbers are as high as they are in NI.
The only problem is in the 6 counties is that they are not providing proper payments to businesses that are closed.
If having all of these things open was acceptable then the numbers would not have risen to the level that they did.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 21, 2020, 11:17:40 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 21, 2020, 11:13:42 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 21, 2020, 09:34:40 AM
Could be the start of it, legal action on the way a la Liverpool gyms -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54626760

They have to get R well below 1 in NI given the high number of cases, and they have to close a lot of things. Gyms are not at necessary to society, you can walk up and down the stairs if you want to keep fit, and things that are not necessary should not be open when numbers are as high as they are in NI.
The only problem is in the 6 counties is that they are not providing proper payments to businesses that are closed.
If having all of these things open was acceptable then the numbers would not have risen to the level that they did.

Not necessary sure, but collective public health is absolutely vital....especially now. Again, the best thing every single person (who is able to) could be doing now, is keeping themselves as active as possible. Covid preys on weakness.

You are fair enough in your point about gyms not being necessary, but I would consider a gym with about 3 or 4 people in it alot more safer than the scenes (weather permitting) we are about to see this weekend out and about the usual hotspots.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 21, 2020, 11:20:24 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 21, 2020, 11:17:40 AM
You are fair enough in your point about gyms not being necessary, but I would consider a gym with about 3 or 4 people in it alot more safer than the scenes (weather permitting) we are about to see this weekend out and about the usual hotspots.

Outdoor stuff might seem bad, but it is 18 times safer than anything indoor and kn**ker drinkers probably don't go to the gym.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 11:25:20 AM
It will all come out in the wash - lockdowns hurt everyone but the virus. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54626760 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54626760)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 21, 2020, 11:27:44 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 11:25:20 AM
It will all come out in the wash - lockdowns hurt everyone but the virus. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54626760 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54626760)

everybody except the thousands that do not get sick or the hundreds that do not die.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on October 21, 2020, 11:34:18 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 21, 2020, 11:27:44 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 11:25:20 AM
It will all come out in the wash - lockdowns hurt everyone but the virus. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54626760 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54626760)

everybody except the thousands that do not get sick or the hundreds that do not die.

? They hurt them too. "But you didn't get the virus" won't feed or house you if you lose your livelihood and have your place repossessed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 21, 2020, 11:40:21 AM
Quote from: five points on October 21, 2020, 11:34:18 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 21, 2020, 11:27:44 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 11:25:20 AM
It will all come out in the wash - lockdowns hurt everyone but the virus. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54626760 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54626760)

everybody except the thousands that do not get sick or the hundreds that do not die.

? They hurt them too. "But you didn't get the virus" won't feed or house you if you lose your livelihood and have your place repossessed.

The American model.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 11:54:41 AM
Will Belfast and the rest, get these packages that are on offer in Manchester and Liverpool?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 21, 2020, 12:04:46 PM
We'll be lucky, remember it wasn't that long ago this place swindled England out of a billion to prop up the Govt.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 21, 2020, 12:09:08 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 21, 2020, 11:40:21 AM
Quote from: five points on October 21, 2020, 11:34:18 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 21, 2020, 11:27:44 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 11:25:20 AM
It will all come out in the wash - lockdowns hurt everyone but the virus. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54626760 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54626760)

everybody except the thousands that do not get sick or the hundreds that do not die.

? They hurt them too. "But you didn't get the virus" won't feed or house you if you lose your livelihood and have your place repossessed.

The American model.

I disagree with the American model, I favour the European approach of helping out those who have to close, even if that required a temporary tax on people still working (like me).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 12:12:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 11:54:41 AM
Will Belfast and the rest, get these packages that are on offer in Manchester and Liverpool?

Boris said "absolutely" so obviously we will get a great package ::)

I'm still not convinced we ever got that billion. A lot of smoke and mirrors to it I think.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 12:16:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 12:12:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 11:54:41 AM
Will Belfast and the rest, get these packages that are on offer in Manchester and Liverpool?

Boris said "absolutely" so obviously we will get a great package ::)

I'm still not convinced we ever got that billion. A lot of smoke and mirrors to it I think.

Billion! probably taxed us on it at 75% .. Does the Belfast Mayor have the same powers as the Manchester one?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 21, 2020, 12:19:03 PM
It's become so clear that the failure to put in place a proper, find, test, trace and isolate regime is the real problem here

I've been saying this for ages

Now contact tracing has been outsourced to those who test positive themselves, it's farcical

But for the last five months we've had internet experts telling us we need to be like Sweden - a classic "look over there"

Perhaps they would have been better off asking why we weren't investing in find, test, trace and isolate

This failure was a government decision and it was unquestioned "light touch" American ideology that led it when what was required was massive government investment

It's yet another failure of the same "light touch" bullshit that has caused so many problems in so many areas going back decades


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 21, 2020, 12:26:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 21, 2020, 12:19:03 PM
It's become so clear that the failure to put in place a proper, find, test, trace and isolate regime is the real problem here

I've been saying this for ages

Now contact tracing has been outsourced to those who test positive themselves, it's farcical

But for the last five months we've had internet experts telling us we need to be like Sweden - a classic "look over there"

Perhaps they would have been better off asking why we weren't investing in find, test, trace and isolate

This failure was a government decision and it was unquestioned "light touch" American ideology that led it when what was required was massive government investment

It's yet another failure of the same "light touch" bullshit that has caused so many problems in so many areas going back decades

The investment was there.  12 Billion Quid of it.  It just went to a bunch of Dom's mates who stuffed it in their pockets and did fcuk all finding, testing, tracing or isolating.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 21, 2020, 12:32:20 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 21, 2020, 12:26:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 21, 2020, 12:19:03 PM
It's become so clear that the failure to put in place a proper, find, test, trace and isolate regime is the real problem here

I've been saying this for ages

Now contact tracing has been outsourced to those who test positive themselves, it's farcical

But for the last five months we've had internet experts telling us we need to be like Sweden - a classic "look over there"

Perhaps they would have been better off asking why we weren't investing in find, test, trace and isolate

This failure was a government decision and it was unquestioned "light touch" American ideology that led it when what was required was massive government investment

It's yet another failure of the same "light touch" bullshit that has caused so many problems in so many areas going back decades

The investment was there.  12 Billion Quid of it.  It just went to a bunch of Dom's mates who stuffed it in their pockets and did fcuk all finding, testing, tracing or isolating.
Talking about the Republic here but in the UK it seems the whole thing is a crony capitalist enterprise alright

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 01:27:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 12:16:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 12:12:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 11:54:41 AM
Will Belfast and the rest, get these packages that are on offer in Manchester and Liverpool?

Boris said "absolutely" so obviously we will get a great package ::)

I'm still not convinced we ever got that billion. A lot of smoke and mirrors to it I think.

Billion! probably taxed us on it at 75% .. Does the Belfast Mayor have the same powers as the Manchester one?

I don't think so but am not sure. Belfast Mayor just a councillor really - I think.

I don't think it would work like that here anyway - I suspect it wouldn't be Belfast they would ask for but the whole place. It's the MPs who would deal with this so any of them over in westminster.

That would be my thinking anyway but unsure on this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 01:50:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 01:27:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 12:16:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 12:12:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 11:54:41 AM
Will Belfast and the rest, get these packages that are on offer in Manchester and Liverpool?

Boris said "absolutely" so obviously we will get a great package ::)

I'm still not convinced we ever got that billion. A lot of smoke and mirrors to it I think.

Billion! probably taxed us on it at 75% .. Does the Belfast Mayor have the same powers as the Manchester one?

I don't think so but am not sure. Belfast Mayor just a councillor really - I think.

I don't think it would work like that here anyway - I suspect it wouldn't be Belfast they would ask for but the whole place. It's the MPs who would deal with this so any of them over in westminster.

That would be my thinking anyway but unsure on this.

So its just some dude/dude't with a chain round their necks with no power at all? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 01:56:36 PM
I don't really know tbh. Reminds me of the president of a GAA club lol. I imagine at council level they have powers but more "national" level not. Any previous ones seem to use it as a stepping stone to bigger things.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 02:11:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2020, 07:37:50 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 19, 2020, 08:28:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 05:06:57 PM
Those people with Covid tunnel vision have absolutely no interest in looking at the consequences of using lockdowns and restrictions to fight it, maybe you should look at the bigger picture for once.

Current case fatality rate here is 4% (time weighted for day of contraction).

I was going to say that is overly pessimistic and take 1% instead. But, if we followed your course (which you don't outline, but the assumption must be that it is light touch), then the health services would collapse and you would see 4% as a minimum death rate over the long term

Then with your world of minimal restrictions, how many get the virus? Half the population before herd immunity effects kick in? (Half being optimistic, usual thought train is around 70% of populace needs to be immune.)

So, half the population of the north is 1.8 million. Half of that is 900k. 4% of that is 36k people.

In 2018, 15,922 people died in the north. You are advocating doubling the annual death rate in response to worries over intangible forecasts elsewhere.


Big picture? You don't have a f**king clue. Not surprising the man that cannot grasp the difference between fractions and percentages cannot play with big numbers.

Did Angelo respond to this one? Or did I miss it?

Yes. You missed it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 02:20:11 PM
So the WHO estimated about a month back that 10% of the world's population had Covid.

That's a rough guess that 780m people had been infected.

At that time, worldwide Covid deaths were at about the 1m mark.

That's a mortality rate of 0.13%

We know that across the world that deaths have been wrongly recorded with Covid as the cause of death when there was a positive test of Covid but no symptoms had been displayed and the cause of death was in actual fact their underlying health issue or a terminal illness.

The WHO estimate that circa 400k people die with flu every year.

The mortality rate of flu is estimated to be around 0.1%.

We don't shut society down every winter to save people from dying from flu. Are the lockdown merchants ashamed of this or is death, consumption of the health service and long term impacts on people who catch it acceptable?




Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 02:32:48 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

There is also this issue where deaths where there was no evidence of Covid being the primary cause of death being account for as a Covid related death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6JkwDH7okM&ab_channel=OnePalProductions
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 21, 2020, 02:34:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 02:20:11 PM
We know that across the world that deaths have been wrongly recorded with Covid as the cause of death when there was a positive test of Covid but no symptoms had been displayed and the cause of death was in actual fact their underlying health issue or a terminal illness.

If 10% of people had Covid, then at any one time no more than 0.5% had it. Therefore you would expect 0.5% of people who die to have Covid if it had no effect on mortality, so by all means subtract 0.5% if you think you must. The reality of course is that in many countries people have died because of Covid without effective diagnosis, as shown by the excess deaths.

(https://media.nature.com/lw800/magazine-assets/d41586-020-02497-w/d41586-020-02497-w_18325900.jpg)

Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

Quite the opposite, those advocating lockdown fear for their realtives with illnesses, who are vulnerable to Covid and who will receive less treatment while the health service is under pressure. Visiting restrictions are not great, but do you really want people bringing in Covid to nursing homes?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:37:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 21, 2020, 02:34:27 PM

Quite the opposite, those advocating lockdown fear for their realtives with illnesses, who are vulnerable to Covid and who will receive less treatment while the health service is under pressure. Visiting restrictions are not great, but do you really want people bringing in Covid to nursing homes?

Who mentioned care homes, care homes are like fort knox at the moment, be easier to get into the Queens bed, I am talking about hospital!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

Yes my dads in a bad way, still getting his visits from the cancer nurse and still getting appointments at the Cancer clinic...

He would be happier if we had a better handle on the situation so that he can have a better outcome in the long run with his extended family, at the minute due to the virus and it's effects on cancer patients it would possibly end his life sooner should he catch it by ones wanting to let her rip
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:38:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 02:32:48 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

There is also this issue where deaths where there was no evidence of Covid being the primary cause of death being account for as a Covid related death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6JkwDH7okM&ab_channel=OnePalProductions

The 28 day lag is a joke, you could get covid today and in 4 weeks get killed by a bus - you would be a registered covid death.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 02:41:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 21, 2020, 02:34:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 02:20:11 PM
We know that across the world that deaths have been wrongly recorded with Covid as the cause of death when there was a positive test of Covid but no symptoms had been displayed and the cause of death was in actual fact their underlying health issue or a terminal illness.

If 10% of people had Covid, then at any one time no more than 0.5% had it. Therefore you would expect 0.5% of people who die to have Covid if it had no effect on mortality, so by all means subtract 0.5% if you think you must. The reality of course is that in many countries people have died because of Covid without effective diagnosis, as shown by the excess deaths.

(https://media.nature.com/lw800/magazine-assets/d41586-020-02497-w/d41586-020-02497-w_18325900.jpg)

Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

Quite the opposite, those advocating lockdown fear for their realtives with illnesses, who are vulnerable to Covid and who will receive less treatment while the health service is under pressure. Visiting restrictions are not great, but do you really want people bringing in Covid to nursing homes?

So people could die in many countries of flu without effective diagnosis?

There have been multiple examples of Covid being listed as the cause of death all across the world when it clearly was not which has led to false and inaccurate inflating of Covid deaths. That is an absolute fact, what you are sayin regarding undetected Covid deaths is speculation.

We also don't test for flu so if you are saying we could have loads of undetected Covid deaths, we test for Covid - we don't test for flu. By your logic it is much more likely that we have a higher proportion of undetected flu deaths than we do undetected Covid deaths.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

Yes my dads in a bad way, still getting his visits from the cancer nurse and still getting appointments at the Cancer clinic...

He would be happier if we had a better handle on the situation so that he can have a better outcome in the long run with his extended family, at the minute due to the virus and it's effects on cancer patients it would possibly end his life sooner should he catch it by ones wanting to let her rip

God that is atrocious to take your fathers illness and weaponize it like that, I never once said let it rip, but we should let people live, vulnerable people can be protected without shutting down society,  I hope your father isn't suffering too much, it's tragic to be so ill and even more tragic in these strange times.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 02:45:59 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

Yes my dads in a bad way, still getting his visits from the cancer nurse and still getting appointments at the Cancer clinic...

He would be happier if we had a better handle on the situation so that he can have a better outcome in the long run with his extended family, at the minute due to the virus and it's effects on cancer patients it would possibly end his life sooner should he catch it by ones wanting to let her rip

God that is atrocious to take your fathers illness and weaponize it like that, I never once said let it rip, but we should let people live, vulnerable people can be protected without shutting down society,  I hope your father isn't suffering too much, it's tragic to be so ill and even more tragic in these strange times.

I'm not, you put up a statement saying care and home care visits are not being done, it is and visiting hospitals is not a closed place for anyone without covid, as cancer treatments are being carried out.. and I never said that you want to let her rip, other people have and that's who I'm referring too
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:48:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 02:45:59 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

Yes my dads in a bad way, still getting his visits from the cancer nurse and still getting appointments at the Cancer clinic...

He would be happier if we had a better handle on the situation so that he can have a better outcome in the long run with his extended family, at the minute due to the virus and it's effects on cancer patients it would possibly end his life sooner should he catch it by ones wanting to let her rip

God that is atrocious to take your fathers illness and weaponize it like that, I never once said let it rip, but we should let people live, vulnerable people can be protected without shutting down society,  I hope your father isn't suffering too much, it's tragic to be so ill and even more tragic in these strange times.

I'm not, you put up a statement saying care and home care visits are not being done, it is and visiting hospitals is not a closed place for anyone without covid, as cancer treatments are being carried out.. and I never said that you want to let her rip, other people have and that's who I'm referring too

Care homes are closed here, and if my father-in-law was in hospital no one would get to see him - that is fact!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 21, 2020, 02:51:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 02:41:36 PM
So people could die in many countries of flu without effective diagnosis?

There have been multiple examples of Covid being listed as the cause of death all across the world when it clearly was not which has led to false and inaccurate inflating of Covid deaths. That is an absolute fact, what you are sayin regarding undetected Covid deaths is speculation.

We also don't test for flu so if you are saying we could have loads of undetected Covid deaths, we test for Covid - we don't test for flu. By your logic it is much more likely that we have a higher proportion of undetected flu deaths than we do undetected Covid deaths.

Flu deaths are mostly estimates, few people are tested. If you use tested flu fatality rates then you have no case at all.

What I am saying regarding undetected Covid deaths was published in a highly respected scientific outlet, not bizzareconspiracytheories.com. If Covid is not the reason then why are some many people dying at the same time as the Covid epidemic, have we July flu epidemic that nobody noticed?

Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:48:12 PM
Care homes are closed here, and if my father-in-law was in hospital no one would get to see him - that is fact!

Given your attitude to the spread of Covid that is a good thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 02:51:55 PM
We subject the elderly and vulnerable to seasonal flu every year without any remorse of guilt. There are a huge level of hypocrites active on this thread.

I've asked this question countless times now, not one of those guys has had the balls to address it.

At what point does the level of death, consumption of the health service and long-term impact on people's health become an acceptable level of risk with Covid? Someone please step up to the plate here, qualify it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 02:56:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 21, 2020, 02:51:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 02:41:36 PM
So people could die in many countries of flu without effective diagnosis?

There have been multiple examples of Covid being listed as the cause of death all across the world when it clearly was not which has led to false and inaccurate inflating of Covid deaths. That is an absolute fact, what you are sayin regarding undetected Covid deaths is speculation.

We also don't test for flu so if you are saying we could have loads of undetected Covid deaths, we test for Covid - we don't test for flu. By your logic it is much more likely that we have a higher proportion of undetected flu deaths than we do undetected Covid deaths.

Flu deaths are mostly estimates, few people are tested. If you use tested flu fatality rates then you have no case at all.

What I am saying regarding undetected Covid deaths was published in a highly respected scientific outlet, not bizzareconspiracytheories.com. If Covid is not the reason then why are some many people dying at the same time as the Covid epidemic, have we July flu epidemic that nobody noticed?

Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:48:12 PM
Care homes are closed here, and if my father-in-law was in hospital no one would get to see him - that is fact!

Given your attitude to the spread of Covid that is a good thing.

Yes, few people are tested - therefore the probabiltity of flu related deaths are much, much more likely to be understated than overstated. We already have a litany of examples of Covid being wrongly attributed as being the cause of death. We have numerous examples of this which is not speculative.

We don't have data on excess deaths in July so I don't know what you're talking about? Care to enlighten me?

A highly respected scientific outlet is a very subjective comment.

Have a read of this, I suppose you might classify it as a highly respected medical outlet.

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=27335


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 21, 2020, 02:58:08 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:48:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 02:45:59 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

Yes my dads in a bad way, still getting his visits from the cancer nurse and still getting appointments at the Cancer clinic...

He would be happier if we had a better handle on the situation so that he can have a better outcome in the long run with his extended family, at the minute due to the virus and it's effects on cancer patients it would possibly end his life sooner should he catch it by ones wanting to let her rip

God that is atrocious to take your fathers illness and weaponize it like that, I never once said let it rip, but we should let people live, vulnerable people can be protected without shutting down society,  I hope your father isn't suffering too much, it's tragic to be so ill and even more tragic in these strange times.

I'm not, you put up a statement saying care and home care visits are not being done, it is and visiting hospitals is not a closed place for anyone without covid, as cancer treatments are being carried out.. and I never said that you want to let her rip, other people have and that's who I'm referring too

Care homes are closed here, and if my father-in-law was in hospital no one would get to see him - that is fact!


My granny was in hospital about 6 weeks ago there, nothing Covid related or that. Only 1 person was allowed (who was nominated) was allowed into visit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:59:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 21, 2020, 02:51:02 PM

Given your attitude to the spread of Covid that is a good thing.

Care to elaborate, what age are you lets say 45, in all the winters when you got flu do you stay home and isolate, did you wash hands, social distance or did you go to work at any stage, socialise, meet in different folks house before 2 weeks when you first got symptoms?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 03:00:33 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 21, 2020, 02:58:08 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:48:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 02:45:59 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

Yes my dads in a bad way, still getting his visits from the cancer nurse and still getting appointments at the Cancer clinic...

He would be happier if we had a better handle on the situation so that he can have a better outcome in the long run with his extended family, at the minute due to the virus and it's effects on cancer patients it would possibly end his life sooner should he catch it by ones wanting to let her rip

God that is atrocious to take your fathers illness and weaponize it like that, I never once said let it rip, but we should let people live, vulnerable people can be protected without shutting down society,  I hope your father isn't suffering too much, it's tragic to be so ill and even more tragic in these strange times.

I'm not, you put up a statement saying care and home care visits are not being done, it is and visiting hospitals is not a closed place for anyone without covid, as cancer treatments are being carried out.. and I never said that you want to let her rip, other people have and that's who I'm referring too

Care homes are closed here, and if my father-in-law was in hospital no one would get to see him - that is fact!


My granny was in hospital about 6 weeks ago there, nothing Covid related or that. Only 1 person was allowed (who was nominated) was allowed into visit.

My mother was in from Easter for about 12 weeks I was allowed down once when they said she had hours to live.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 03:04:32 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.

It takes two to tango.

When I continue to meet the lazy and intolerant replies I have then I will continue to use the same posts I have.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:12:42 PM
Hospital count up by 3 and 3 more in ICU up north. The hospital numbers haven't grown anywhere near as much this week (up north) which is good despite the positive test increase day on day. Hopefully they will start to reduce soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 03:17:45 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:12:42 PM
Hospital count up by 3 and 3 more in ICU up north. The hospital numbers haven't grown anywhere near as much this week (up north) which is good despite the positive test increase day on day. Hopefully they will start to reduce soon.

Cancel everything - get doctors out of General Practice and up to the nightingale the surge is on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:18:47 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 03:19:22 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:12:42 PM
Hospital count up by 3 and 3 more in ICU up north. The hospital numbers haven't grown anywhere near as much this week (up north) which is good despite the positive test increase day on day. Hopefully they will start to reduce soon.

The positive test hasn't seen an increase day day.

We had a record total on Friday and have had lower numbers in the subsequent four days with two sub 1,000 figures yesterday and Monday.

The daily new cases are flattening, not rising.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:20:48 PM
The growth in daily cases is flattening yes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 03:22:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:20:48 PM
The growth in daily cases is flattening yes.

I told you that yesterday but you took umbrage with it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:24:55 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:20:48 PM
The growth in daily cases is flattening yes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 03:26:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:24:55 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:20:48 PM
The growth in daily cases is flattening yes.

Yes, exactly what you took umbrage with yesterday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:29:43 PM
It's not at all. You said the virus was stagnating.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 03:31:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 21, 2020, 02:58:08 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:48:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 02:45:59 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

Yes my dads in a bad way, still getting his visits from the cancer nurse and still getting appointments at the Cancer clinic...

He would be happier if we had a better handle on the situation so that he can have a better outcome in the long run with his extended family, at the minute due to the virus and it's effects on cancer patients it would possibly end his life sooner should he catch it by ones wanting to let her rip

God that is atrocious to take your fathers illness and weaponize it like that, I never once said let it rip, but we should let people live, vulnerable people can be protected without shutting down society,  I hope your father isn't suffering too much, it's tragic to be so ill and even more tragic in these strange times.

I'm not, you put up a statement saying care and home care visits are not being done, it is and visiting hospitals is not a closed place for anyone without covid, as cancer treatments are being carried out.. and I never said that you want to let her rip, other people have and that's who I'm referring too

Care homes are closed here, and if my father-in-law was in hospital no one would get to see him - that is fact!


My granny was in hospital about 6 weeks ago there, nothing Covid related or that. Only 1 person was allowed (who was nominated) was allowed into visit.

That's been standard since Covid and you wouldn't want too many people visiting wards in hospital anyways.. the Nominated person has worked well enough, ones have brought in their Ipads and face timed other family during it..

Care homes should be closed as they were the main reason death rates spiked so much...

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:33:35 PM
Yeah about 2 months ago I was able to visit my mum ok in hospital though it was 2 delegated visitors but you needed to tell them up front. It worked not too bad though was moving to one visit a week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 03:41:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 03:31:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 21, 2020, 02:58:08 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:48:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 02:45:59 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

Yes my dads in a bad way, still getting his visits from the cancer nurse and still getting appointments at the Cancer clinic...

He would be happier if we had a better handle on the situation so that he can have a better outcome in the long run with his extended family, at the minute due to the virus and it's effects on cancer patients it would possibly end his life sooner should he catch it by ones wanting to let her rip

God that is atrocious to take your fathers illness and weaponize it like that, I never once said let it rip, but we should let people live, vulnerable people can be protected without shutting down society,  I hope your father isn't suffering too much, it's tragic to be so ill and even more tragic in these strange times.

I'm not, you put up a statement saying care and home care visits are not being done, it is and visiting hospitals is not a closed place for anyone without covid, as cancer treatments are being carried out.. and I never said that you want to let her rip, other people have and that's who I'm referring too

Care homes are closed here, and if my father-in-law was in hospital no one would get to see him - that is fact!


My granny was in hospital about 6 weeks ago there, nothing Covid related or that. Only 1 person was allowed (who was nominated) was allowed into visit.

That's been standard since Covid and you wouldn't want too many people visiting wards in hospital anyways.. the Nominated person has worked well enough, ones have brought in their Ipads and face timed other family during it..

Care homes should be closed as they were the main reason death rates spiked so much...

Work well for patients with hearing and visual impairments!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 03:50:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:29:43 PM
It's not at all. You said the virus was stagnating.

Nope I said the virus was stagnating as daily cases were staying fairly stable over the past fortnight, how we measure the growth of the virus is daily cases. Look you got there eventually I suppose.

Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:29:52 PM

It looks as though the virus has stagnated now, we are having fairly similar daily numbers for the past fortnight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 03:51:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 03:04:32 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.

It takes two to tango.

When I continue to meet the lazy and intolerant replies I have then I will continue to use the same posts I have.

I know what you are saying, but stop using flu as an example please, its not flu, nor until we know what it is (in the long run) can we actually use anything as an example, its a virus with various different outcomes for different people that's not seasonal and can spread far quicker more infectious than flu...

There are thousands of different types virus. This one is its very own.

Lets deal with what it is now and look at it when (if) it ever settles down, had we went on about our business without trying to slow the pace down then that would have been criminal.

I'm not for all the mini lockdowns to be honest, work wise its affects and mental wise it affects people, but there are smarter people than us (with various opinions) who'll help the gov make decisions, rightly or wrongly, we just have to get through it.. Complaining about the HS not being able to facilitate the current pandemic is daft as its been under funded for years, with successive governments allowing it to suffer..

Putting a plaster over it is all we can do at the minute, they'll need to look after that side of things with immediate effect, but that will also take time to make and train nurses and doctors up for such things..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2020, 03:55:03 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 03:41:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 03:31:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 21, 2020, 02:58:08 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:48:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 02:45:59 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

Yes my dads in a bad way, still getting his visits from the cancer nurse and still getting appointments at the Cancer clinic...

He would be happier if we had a better handle on the situation so that he can have a better outcome in the long run with his extended family, at the minute due to the virus and it's effects on cancer patients it would possibly end his life sooner should he catch it by ones wanting to let her rip

God that is atrocious to take your fathers illness and weaponize it like that, I never once said let it rip, but we should let people live, vulnerable people can be protected without shutting down society,  I hope your father isn't suffering too much, it's tragic to be so ill and even more tragic in these strange times.

I'm not, you put up a statement saying care and home care visits are not being done, it is and visiting hospitals is not a closed place for anyone without covid, as cancer treatments are being carried out.. and I never said that you want to let her rip, other people have and that's who I'm referring too

Care homes are closed here, and if my father-in-law was in hospital no one would get to see him - that is fact!


My granny was in hospital about 6 weeks ago there, nothing Covid related or that. Only 1 person was allowed (who was nominated) was allowed into visit.

That's been standard since Covid and you wouldn't want too many people visiting wards in hospital anyways.. the Nominated person has worked well enough, ones have brought in their Ipads and face timed other family during it..

Care homes should be closed as they were the main reason death rates spiked so much...

Work well for patients with hearing and visual impairments!!

I'm all on board for the fact the NHS urgently needs to review how they progress with operations and treatments. But are you querying the reduced limitations for visitors as well? Especially for critically ill?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 04:01:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2020, 03:55:03 PM

I'm all on board for the fact the NHS urgently needs to review how they progress with operations and treatments. But are you querying the reduced limitations for visitors as well? Especially for critically ill?

Yes - if you were critically ill would you not like to see your son or daughter?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 04:04:10 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 03:41:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 03:31:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 21, 2020, 02:58:08 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:48:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 02:45:59 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

Yes my dads in a bad way, still getting his visits from the cancer nurse and still getting appointments at the Cancer clinic...

He would be happier if we had a better handle on the situation so that he can have a better outcome in the long run with his extended family, at the minute due to the virus and it's effects on cancer patients it would possibly end his life sooner should he catch it by ones wanting to let her rip

God that is atrocious to take your fathers illness and weaponize it like that, I never once said let it rip, but we should let people live, vulnerable people can be protected without shutting down society,  I hope your father isn't suffering too much, it's tragic to be so ill and even more tragic in these strange times.

I'm not, you put up a statement saying care and home care visits are not being done, it is and visiting hospitals is not a closed place for anyone without covid, as cancer treatments are being carried out.. and I never said that you want to let her rip, other people have and that's who I'm referring too

Care homes are closed here, and if my father-in-law was in hospital no one would get to see him - that is fact!


My granny was in hospital about 6 weeks ago there, nothing Covid related or that. Only 1 person was allowed (who was nominated) was allowed into visit.

That's been standard since Covid and you wouldn't want too many people visiting wards in hospital anyways.. the Nominated person has worked well enough, ones have brought in their Ipads and face timed other family during it..

Care homes should be closed as they were the main reason death rates spiked so much...

Work well for patients with hearing and visual impairments!!

No and if they have those ailments they would still struggle when they are at the hospital! But not every family will have someone with that.

But please don't say the hospitals and nursing visits are not being carried out, as I'm seeing it first hand and taking my dad for appointments to the hospital, and that was during the first lockdown and now this one..

I'd say some areas are reduced in visits, which is awful on families, even the reduced numbers at funerals and weddings is bad, as I seen first hand on Monday, but whats the answer?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 04:04:47 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 04:01:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2020, 03:55:03 PM

I'm all on board for the fact the NHS urgently needs to review how they progress with operations and treatments. But are you querying the reduced limitations for visitors as well? Especially for critically ill?

Yes - if you were critically ill would you not like to see your son or daughter?

What about the other critically ill ones in there?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2020, 04:06:23 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 04:01:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2020, 03:55:03 PM

I'm all on board for the fact the NHS urgently needs to review how they progress with operations and treatments. But are you querying the reduced limitations for visitors as well? Especially for critically ill?

Yes - if you were critically ill would you not like to see your son or daughter?

Of course you would. But that doesn't make it the right decision. There had to be limitations on family/ friends attending loved ones in hospital. One of the biggest mistakes at the start was not taking enough precautions in protecting the vulnerable. Limiting the number of people with access, limits the chances of Covid transfer for the patient. I can 100% understand that approach, albeit still have sympathy for the people going through it.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 04:13:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 04:04:47 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 04:01:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2020, 03:55:03 PM

I'm all on board for the fact the NHS urgently needs to review how they progress with operations and treatments. But are you querying the reduced limitations for visitors as well? Especially for critically ill?

Yes - if you were critically ill would you not like to see your son or daughter?

What about the other critically ill ones in there?

What about them, they should be entitled to visits also, it is inhumane to allow someone to die and their loved ones in the car park, PPE can be worn.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 04:16:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 03:50:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:29:43 PM
It's not at all. You said the virus was stagnating.

Nope I said the virus was stagnating as daily cases were staying fairly stable over the past fortnight, how we measure the growth of the virus is daily cases. Look you got there eventually I suppose.

Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:29:52 PM

It looks as though the virus has stagnated now, we are having fairly similar daily numbers for the past fortnight.

Jesus. You still don't get it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 04:16:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 04:04:10 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 03:41:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 03:31:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 21, 2020, 02:58:08 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:48:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 02:45:59 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:41:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 02:28:06 PM
I suspect those on here advocating lockdown to save the NHS hasn't had a family member seriously ill during the last 7 months, my wife and her siblings are doing 24/7 round the clock care for their father who is on palliative care, oxygen, morphine etc as if he was to go into hospital no one would be allowed in to see him.  The palliative care team don't visit, they zoom etc, granted one family member is a nurse, but been long time out of general practice, the NHS is only open for covid patients and the inhumanity of not allowing visits is heart wrenching.

Yes my dads in a bad way, still getting his visits from the cancer nurse and still getting appointments at the Cancer clinic...

He would be happier if we had a better handle on the situation so that he can have a better outcome in the long run with his extended family, at the minute due to the virus and it's effects on cancer patients it would possibly end his life sooner should he catch it by ones wanting to let her rip

God that is atrocious to take your fathers illness and weaponize it like that, I never once said let it rip, but we should let people live, vulnerable people can be protected without shutting down society,  I hope your father isn't suffering too much, it's tragic to be so ill and even more tragic in these strange times.

I'm not, you put up a statement saying care and home care visits are not being done, it is and visiting hospitals is not a closed place for anyone without covid, as cancer treatments are being carried out.. and I never said that you want to let her rip, other people have and that's who I'm referring too

Care homes are closed here, and if my father-in-law was in hospital no one would get to see him - that is fact!


My granny was in hospital about 6 weeks ago there, nothing Covid related or that. Only 1 person was allowed (who was nominated) was allowed into visit.

That's been standard since Covid and you wouldn't want too many people visiting wards in hospital anyways.. the Nominated person has worked well enough, ones have brought in their Ipads and face timed other family during it..

Care homes should be closed as they were the main reason death rates spiked so much...

Work well for patients with hearing and visual impairments!!

No and if they have those ailments they would still struggle when they are at the hospital! But not every family will have someone with that.

But please don't say the hospitals and nursing visits are not being carried out, as I'm seeing it first hand and taking my dad for appointments to the hospital, and that was during the first lockdown and now this one..

I'd say some areas are reduced in visits, which is awful on families, even the reduced numbers at funerals and weddings is bad, as I seen first hand on Monday, but whats the answer?

Care homes are closed for visiting in our area and you saying I am lying when I said I never saw my mother for 12 weeks except when I was told she had hours to live, the nurses tried facetime but she couldn't see the screen or hear, had I been there she could have seen and heard me and brought her some comfort, this point scoring exercise you have is fascinating, you do realise care homes and hospitals don't operate in unison.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 04:19:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2020, 04:06:23 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 04:01:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2020, 03:55:03 PM

I'm all on board for the fact the NHS urgently needs to review how they progress with operations and treatments. But are you querying the reduced limitations for visitors as well? Especially for critically ill?

Yes - if you were critically ill would you not like to see your son or daughter?

Of course you would. But that doesn't make it the right decision. There had to be limitations on family/ friends attending loved ones in hospital. One of the biggest mistakes at the start was not taking enough precautions in protecting the vulnerable. Limiting the number of people with access, limits the chances of Covid transfer for the patient. I can 100% understand that approach, albeit still have sympathy for the people going through it.

You obviously didn't go through it though, limitations does not mean no one.   Craigavon biggest outbreak was from nurses at a house party, but one can't comfort a parent.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 04:23:56 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 04:13:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 04:04:47 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 04:01:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2020, 03:55:03 PM

I'm all on board for the fact the NHS urgently needs to review how they progress with operations and treatments. But are you querying the reduced limitations for visitors as well? Especially for critically ill?

Yes - if you were critically ill would you not like to see your son or daughter?

What about the other critically ill ones in there?

What about them, they should be entitled to visits also, it is inhumane to allow someone to die and their loved ones in the car park, PPE can be worn.

Ok, so solve it by possibly killing more? Plenty of medical staff have died while using PPE in these places. hospitals are the last place you'd want to be even in normal circumstances, during this period is madness. we all may go through this but all just waying into the hospital PPE on isnt the answer.

Point scoring ffs lad calm yourself, I never mention care homes other than saying they are closed and should be, I said hospital appointments are still available and nurses doing visits is still happening. Your very angry, I get that but you've provided nothing to solve it other than wearing PPE
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 04:29:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 04:23:56 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 04:13:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 04:04:47 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 04:01:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2020, 03:55:03 PM

I'm all on board for the fact the NHS urgently needs to review how they progress with operations and treatments. But are you querying the reduced limitations for visitors as well? Especially for critically ill?

Yes - if you were critically ill would you not like to see your son or daughter?

What about the other critically ill ones in there?

What about them, they should be entitled to visits also, it is inhumane to allow someone to die and their loved ones in the car park, PPE can be worn.

Ok, so solve it by possibly killing more? Plenty of medical staff have died while using PPE in these places. hospitals are the last place you'd want to be even in normal circumstances, during this period is madness. we all may go through this but all just waying into the hospital PPE on isnt the answer.

Point scoring ffs lad calm yourself, I never mention care homes other than saying they are closed and should be, I said hospital appointments are still available and nurses doing visits is still happening. Your very angry, I get that but you've provided nothing to solve it other than wearing PPE

You are some piece of work weaponizing your father's illness to try and make a point but ignoring other ill patients and their human rights, my mother hadn't covid, wasn't in the covid side, I didn't have covid symptoms, why was I allowed to go see here when she was dying why not when she could be comforted, is this the standard line of this board, you are a very angry man when one questions the "regulars"?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2020, 04:42:44 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 04:19:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2020, 04:06:23 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 04:01:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2020, 03:55:03 PM

I'm all on board for the fact the NHS urgently needs to review how they progress with operations and treatments. But are you querying the reduced limitations for visitors as well? Especially for critically ill?

Yes - if you were critically ill would you not like to see your son or daughter?

Of course you would. But that doesn't make it the right decision. There had to be limitations on family/ friends attending loved ones in hospital. One of the biggest mistakes at the start was not taking enough precautions in protecting the vulnerable. Limiting the number of people with access, limits the chances of Covid transfer for the patient. I can 100% understand that approach, albeit still have sympathy for the people going through it.

You obviously didn't go through it though, limitations does not mean no one.   Craigavon biggest outbreak was from nurses at a house party, but one can't comfort a parent.
I didn't go through it, that's a fair comment. So yes, from my perspective all I can do is try to evaluate how I think I would have reacted. It would have been a horrendous thing to go through and as I said you have my sympathies as does anyone else who went through it. People that I know were allowed 1/2 into see the family member that was sick. I think the hospitals had to try and prevent Covid entering the hospital and this was the most basic way to do it. I think had I a family member in hospital who was vulnerable I would have wanted them to take every precaution possible. But as you say maybe I'd have felt different if I'd been through what you have.
My own mother was due a hip replacement in March that was cancelled. It was re-scheduled to 13th September and then cancelled the week before again due to the current spike. Not life threatening surgery but it was to happen in altinagevlin. And I know I would selfishly have preferred as few visitors as possible on the ward if it meant reduced risk to her catching covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 04:52:28 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 04:29:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 04:23:56 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 04:13:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 04:04:47 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 21, 2020, 04:01:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2020, 03:55:03 PM

I'm all on board for the fact the NHS urgently needs to review how they progress with operations and treatments. But are you querying the reduced limitations for visitors as well? Especially for critically ill?

Yes - if you were critically ill would you not like to see your son or daughter?

What about the other critically ill ones in there?

What about them, they should be entitled to visits also, it is inhumane to allow someone to die and their loved ones in the car park, PPE can be worn.

Ok, so solve it by possibly killing more? Plenty of medical staff have died while using PPE in these places. hospitals are the last place you'd want to be even in normal circumstances, during this period is madness. we all may go through this but all just waying into the hospital PPE on isnt the answer.

Point scoring ffs lad calm yourself, I never mention care homes other than saying they are closed and should be, I said hospital appointments are still available and nurses doing visits is still happening. Your very angry, I get that but you've provided nothing to solve it other than wearing PPE

You are some piece of work weaponizing your father's illness to try and make a point but ignoring other ill patients and their human rights, my mother hadn't covid, wasn't in the covid side, I didn't have covid symptoms, why was I allowed to go see here when she was dying why not when she could be comforted, is this the standard line of this board, you are a very angry man when one questions the "regulars"?

I'm giving you real life examples, I'm not angry at all, I'm happy to see this out whatever way it comes, I'm not the decision maker, there are people worse off than me, I know that.. A few things recently have re focused what's really important in life.

I never ignored others either, with the amount of cases we are seeing, everyone will have had some dealings which have restricted their involvement with love ones, unfortunately for you it's been very difficult and I'm sorry for that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on October 21, 2020, 05:27:27 PM
I'm gonna stab the next hoor who starts of ".. So you can do.. but you can't do... that makes sense ::)" f**k right off.  Let's all just accept there are anamolies and move on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 21, 2020, 05:29:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 03:50:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:29:43 PM
It's not at all. You said the virus was stagnating.

Nope I said the virus was stagnating as daily cases were staying fairly stable over the past fortnight, how we measure the growth of the virus is daily cases. Look you got there eventually I suppose.

Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:29:52 PM

It looks as though the virus has stagnated now, we are having fairly similar daily numbers for the past fortnight.

Stagnate: cease developing; become inactive or dull.

The virus hasn't stagnated at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 06:08:45 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 21, 2020, 05:29:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 03:50:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:29:43 PM
It's not at all. You said the virus was stagnating.

Nope I said the virus was stagnating as daily cases were staying fairly stable over the past fortnight, how we measure the growth of the virus is daily cases. Look you got there eventually I suppose.

Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:29:52 PM


It looks as though the virus has stagnated now, we are having fairly similar daily numbers for the past fortnight.

Stagnate: cease developing; become inactive or dull.

The virus hasn't stagnated at all.

verb (used without object), stag·nat·ed, stag·nat·ing.
to cease to run or flow, as water, air, etc.
to be or become stale or foul from standing, as a pool of water.
to stop developing, growing, progressing, or advancing:
My mind is stagnating from too much TV.
to be or become sluggish and dull:
When the leading lady left, the show started to stagnate.


Happy to help.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 06:09:48 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 04:16:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 03:50:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:29:43 PM
It's not at all. You said the virus was stagnating.

Nope I said the virus was stagnating as daily cases were staying fairly stable over the past fortnight, how we measure the growth of the virus is daily cases. Look you got there eventually I suppose.

Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:29:52 PM

It looks as though the virus has stagnated now, we are having fairly similar daily numbers for the past fortnight.

Jesus. You still don't get it.

It's the contrary, you're just a day late in getting it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 21, 2020, 06:31:55 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 21, 2020, 05:29:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 03:50:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:29:43 PM
It's not at all. You said the virus was stagnating.

Nope I said the virus was stagnating as daily cases were staying fairly stable over the past fortnight, how we measure the growth of the virus is daily cases. Look you got there eventually I suppose.

Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:29:52 PM

It looks as though the virus has stagnated now, we are having fairly similar daily numbers for the past fortnight.

Stagnate: cease developing; become inactive or dull.

The virus hasn't stagnated at all.

1167 cases in the 26 and I think it was 1,030 in the 6 today.
Hope they all make a speedy recovery and don't get any ongoing damage from it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 06:54:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2020, 06:31:55 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 21, 2020, 05:29:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 03:50:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:29:43 PM
It's not at all. You said the virus was stagnating.

Nope I said the virus was stagnating as daily cases were staying fairly stable over the past fortnight, how we measure the growth of the virus is daily cases. Look you got there eventually I suppose.

Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:29:52 PM

It looks as though the virus has stagnated now, we are having fairly similar daily numbers for the past fortnight.

Stagnate: cease developing; become inactive or dull.

The virus hasn't stagnated at all.

1167 cases in the 26 and I think it was 1,030 in the 6 today.
Hope they all make a speedy recovery and don't get any ongoing damage from it.

Nothing to worry about, as long as it's stagnant and  stagnating that will cure them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 07:08:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 06:54:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 21, 2020, 06:31:55 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 21, 2020, 05:29:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 03:50:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:29:43 PM
It's not at all. You said the virus was stagnating.

Nope I said the virus was stagnating as daily cases were staying fairly stable over the past fortnight, how we measure the growth of the virus is daily cases. Look you got there eventually I suppose.

Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:29:52 PM

It looks as though the virus has stagnated now, we are having fairly similar daily numbers for the past fortnight.

Stagnate: cease developing; become inactive or dull.

The virus hasn't stagnated at all.

1167 cases in the 26 and I think it was 1,030 in the 6 today.
Hope they all make a speedy recovery and don't get any ongoing damage from it.

Nothing to worry about, as long as it's stagnant and  stagnating that will cure them.
::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 21, 2020, 09:56:37 PM
We've had a good few posters here imploring for things to be "opened up"

Yet I can't recall any of these posters ever imploring for a proper test and trace system

Or a Zero Covid system

Both of these are strategies to suppress the virus and have been shown to work when done properly

So the clear implication is that these people want to open up without either proper test and trace or Zero Covid

What sort of person wants to open up without a suppression strategy rather than open up with a suppression strategy?

Sociopaths, that's who







Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 11:45:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 21, 2020, 09:56:37 PM
We've had a good few posters here imploring for things to be "opened up"

Yet I can't recall any of these posters ever imploring for a proper test and trace system

Or a Zero Covid system

Both of these are strategies to suppress the virus and have been shown to work when done properly

So the clear implication is that these people want to open up without either proper test and trace or Zero Covid

What sort of person wants to open up without a suppression strategy rather than open up with a suppression strategy?

Sociopaths, that's who

Let's hide under our beds until 2023 then.

Let's crank up domestic violence cases, unemployment and mental health problems in that time.

At what benefit?

Did you ever call for a lockdown in any of the past flu seasons? If you didn't then you're a sociopath by your own definition.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2020, 11:52:35 PM
I see Angelo is in Dublin's Grafton's street tonight!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:02:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 11:45:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 21, 2020, 09:56:37 PM
We've had a good few posters here imploring for things to be "opened up"

Yet I can't recall any of these posters ever imploring for a proper test and trace system

Or a Zero Covid system

Both of these are strategies to suppress the virus and have been shown to work when done properly

So the clear implication is that these people want to open up without either proper test and trace or Zero Covid

What sort of person wants to open up without a suppression strategy rather than open up with a suppression strategy?

Sociopaths, that's who

Let's hide under our beds until 2023 then.

Let's crank up domestic violence cases, unemployment and mental health problems in that time.

At what benefit?

Did you ever call for a lockdown in any of the past flu seasons? If you didn't then you're a sociopath by your own definition.
You're deflecting more than a Mayo defender in the first half of the 2016 All-Ireland final

Why do you want to open up society fully without a suppression strategy rather than open it up cautiously with a suppression strategy?

And why is this the loony right's continued narrative?

The logical conclusion is that the loony right sees mass death as a good thing in and of itself

And one only has to look at Trump to see this is indeed the case in reality
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: southtyronegael on October 22, 2020, 12:14:01 AM
I thought I was in the Tyrone thread with all this talk of stagnating.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ballinaman on October 22, 2020, 07:46:12 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:02:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 11:45:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 21, 2020, 09:56:37 PM
We've had a good few posters here imploring for things to be "opened up"

Yet I can't recall any of these posters ever imploring for a proper test and trace system

Or a Zero Covid system

Both of these are strategies to suppress the virus and have been shown to work when done properly

So the clear implication is that these people want to open up without either proper test and trace or Zero Covid

What sort of person wants to open up without a suppression strategy rather than open up with a suppression strategy?

Sociopaths, that's who

Let's hide under our beds until 2023 then.

Let's crank up domestic violence cases, unemployment and mental health problems in that time.

At what benefit?

Did you ever call for a lockdown in any of the past flu seasons? If you didn't then you're a sociopath by your own definition.
You're deflecting more than a Mayo defender in the first half of the 2016 All-Ireland final

Why do you want to open up society fully without a suppression strategy rather than open it up cautiously with a suppression strategy?

And why is this the loony right's continued narrative?

The logical conclusion is that the loony right sees mass death as a good thing in and of itself

And one only has to look at Trump to see this is indeed the case in reality
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/w9xG5hsxZlqtevPlJQ/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952ggtrnmwg0s4sk9il7y5t2o5c74hc3j5l8gxetpn1&rid=giphy.gif)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 22, 2020, 07:56:44 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 02:20:11 PM
So the WHO estimated about a month back that 10% of the world's population had Covid.

That's a rough guess that 780m people had been infected.

At that time, worldwide Covid deaths were at about the 1m mark.

That's a mortality rate of 0.13%

We know that across the world that deaths have been wrongly recorded with Covid as the cause of death when there was a positive test of Covid but no symptoms had been displayed and the cause of death was in actual fact their underlying health issue or a terminal illness.

The WHO estimate that circa 400k people die with flu every year.

The mortality rate of flu is estimated to be around 0.1%.

We don't shut society down every winter to save people from dying from flu. Are the lockdown merchants ashamed of this or is death, consumption of the health service and long term impacts on people who catch it acceptable?

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You've done it again

This is getting a bit surreal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 22, 2020, 08:00:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 03:50:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 21, 2020, 03:29:43 PM
It's not at all. You said the virus was stagnating.

Nope I said the virus was stagnating as daily cases were staying fairly stable over the past fortnight, how we measure the growth of the virus is daily cases. Look you got there eventually I suppose.

Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 03:29:52 PM

It looks as though the virus has stagnated now, we are having fairly similar daily numbers for the past fortnight.

The growth rate is stagnating.

The virus is not stagnating, it's still growing by hundreds/thousands of cases per day.

There's a small but critical difference.  You'll maybe get it some day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 08:48:40 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:02:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 11:45:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 21, 2020, 09:56:37 PM
We've had a good few posters here imploring for things to be "opened up"

Yet I can't recall any of these posters ever imploring for a proper test and trace system

Or a Zero Covid system

Both of these are strategies to suppress the virus and have been shown to work when done properly

So the clear implication is that these people want to open up without either proper test and trace or Zero Covid

What sort of person wants to open up without a suppression strategy rather than open up with a suppression strategy?

Sociopaths, that's who

Let's hide under our beds until 2023 then.

Let's crank up domestic violence cases, unemployment and mental health problems in that time.

At what benefit?

Did you ever call for a lockdown in any of the past flu seasons? If you didn't then you're a sociopath by your own definition.
You're deflecting more than a Mayo defender in the first half of the 2016 All-Ireland final

Why do you want to open up society fully without a suppression strategy rather than open it up cautiously with a suppression strategy?

And why is this the loony right's continued narrative?

The logical conclusion is that the loony right sees mass death as a good thing in and of itself

And one only has to look at Trump to see this is indeed the case in reality

Lets say like in the cases in most clinical trials before any mystery vaccine comes to fruition it takes 10 years, you happy to lockdown society for a decade?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: skeog on October 22, 2020, 09:27:28 AM
Waterford not travelling North one of the reasons given i.e. employers saying saying 14 days isolation needed on return.What a joke Antrim totally correct in not agreeing to neutral venue in South.Terrry Hyland another spoofer couldnt gather a team last week.If they were in a promotion place i am sure they would have fielded.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on October 22, 2020, 09:34:58 AM
Quote from: skeog on October 22, 2020, 09:27:28 AM
Waterford not travelling North one of the reasons given i.e. employers saying saying 14 days isolation needed on return.What a joke Antrim totally correct in not agreeing to neutral venue in South.Terrry Hyland another spoofer couldnt gather a team last week.If they were in a promotion place i am sure they would have fielded.

They were fighting for survival you gobshite, but if you know better feel free to give us the information.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 22, 2020, 09:57:08 AM
Don't expect to see the man from the South in here blaming the North for weeks in this thread after the scenes in Dublin last night  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 08:48:40 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:02:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 11:45:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 21, 2020, 09:56:37 PM
We've had a good few posters here imploring for things to be "opened up"

Yet I can't recall any of these posters ever imploring for a proper test and trace system

Or a Zero Covid system

Both of these are strategies to suppress the virus and have been shown to work when done properly

So the clear implication is that these people want to open up without either proper test and trace or Zero Covid

What sort of person wants to open up without a suppression strategy rather than open up with a suppression strategy?

Sociopaths, that's who

Let's hide under our beds until 2023 then.

Let's crank up domestic violence cases, unemployment and mental health problems in that time.

At what benefit?

Did you ever call for a lockdown in any of the past flu seasons? If you didn't then you're a sociopath by your own definition.
You're deflecting more than a Mayo defender in the first half of the 2016 All-Ireland final

Why do you want to open up society fully without a suppression strategy rather than open it up cautiously with a suppression strategy?

And why is this the loony right's continued narrative?

The logical conclusion is that the loony right sees mass death as a good thing in and of itself

And one only has to look at Trump to see this is indeed the case in reality

Lets say like in the cases in most clinical trials before any mystery vaccine comes to fruition it takes 10 years, you happy to lockdown society for a decade?
But this isn't the case

Even in the hypothetical event that there turned out to be no vaccine - and this seems very unlikely - there are effective strategies available, and there are countries that have already put them into practice and are successfully suppressing the virus while opening up their societies

From what I can make out you are proposing to lift all restrictions, with no suppression strategy

This is a right-wing American anarcho-capitalist talking point pushed by the likes of the Koch Brother(s)

The people proposing this are some of the worst people in the world

You are the person with all the questions to answer here because you are the person proposing that the population of Ireland and the population of the world becomes the subject of a grotesque experiment



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 10:50:42 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:02:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 11:45:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 21, 2020, 09:56:37 PM
We've had a good few posters here imploring for things to be "opened up"

Yet I can't recall any of these posters ever imploring for a proper test and trace system

Or a Zero Covid system

Both of these are strategies to suppress the virus and have been shown to work when done properly

So the clear implication is that these people want to open up without either proper test and trace or Zero Covid

What sort of person wants to open up without a suppression strategy rather than open up with a suppression strategy?

Sociopaths, that's who

Let's hide under our beds until 2023 then.

Let's crank up domestic violence cases, unemployment and mental health problems in that time.

At what benefit?

Did you ever call for a lockdown in any of the past flu seasons? If you didn't then you're a sociopath by your own definition.
You're deflecting more than a Mayo defender in the first half of the 2016 All-Ireland final

Why do you want to open up society fully without a suppression strategy rather than open it up cautiously with a suppression strategy?

And why is this the loony right's continued narrative?

The logical conclusion is that the loony right sees mass death as a good thing in and of itself

And one only has to look at Trump to see this is indeed the case in reality

Learn to read dumbass, the only person mentioning society opening up fully is you.

As usual you are being disingenuous, you are dealing in misrepresentation and providing false information.

We have measures in place with the virus, social distancing, increased hand hygiene, compulsory mask wearing, limited indoor gatherings - these practices continue until such time as science has cracked or the virus burns out - I find the latter much more likely.

So f**k off for yourself your usual nutjob right wing crap because you are completely unable to stick to what is true. You're actually the one advocating lockdown measures, if you had any brain matter between your ears you might realise that fascism is more in line with your rhetoric than anyone else on this thread.

The course of action we are taking is going to create widespread societal and economic problems, domestic violence cases rose during the last lockdown, addiction relapses increased, mental health problems increased, financial hardship increased, businesses will go the wall which leads to job losses, there are many more consequences.

And for what? What benefit are we doing this for? To save lives? What about the lives this course of actions costs, what about the lives it ruins, the businesses it closes, the marriages and relationships it destroys?

I've asked cowards like you, Franko, Milltown and all the rest a simple question and it goes to show how spineless you all are. None of you have the guts to answer as doing so shows complete and utter hypocrisy.

We live with seasonal flu every year, it kills people, it consumes the health service, it causes long lasting health impacts - but whatever risk we attach to that we deem it acceptable. It happens ever year and we don't change anything about our lives. Now maybe you finally grow a pair of balls and answer me this - at what point does Covid become an acceptable risk like flu?

I sincerely doubt you have enough backbone to address that though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Would anyone advocating no lockdowns etc be prepared to stand in person and make the call in a hospital ward over who gets the ventilator and who doesn't when it hits that point ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:06:04 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Would anyone advocating no lockdowns etc be prepared to stand in person and make the call in a hospital ward over who gets the ventilator and who doesn't when it hits that point ?

Would anyone advocating for lockdowns be prepared to tell a victim of domestic violence through lockdwon that it was necessary for her to go through with what she did?

This is the kind of bullshit projection that people who are consumed by Covid engage in

Doctors and healthcare workers have to deal with difficult decisions and death everyday in their job, it's not a Covid phenomenon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:19:25 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:06:04 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Would anyone advocating no lockdowns etc be prepared to stand in person and make the call in a hospital ward over who gets the ventilator and who doesn't when it hits that point ?

Would anyone advocating for lockdowns be prepared to tell a victim of domestic violence through lockdwon that it was necessary for her to go through with what she did?

This is the kind of bullshit projection that people who are consumed by Covid engage in

Doctors and healthcare workers have to deal with difficult decisions and death everyday in their job, it's not a Covid phenomenon.

Nice deviation. Maybe just say if you would be happy to make the call or not ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 22, 2020, 11:20:20 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Would anyone advocating no lockdowns etc be prepared to stand in person and make the call in a hospital ward over who gets the ventilator and who doesn't when it hits that point ?
Well said.
Do we perform the life saving heart surgery on Patient A or do we leave the Covid comatose Patient B in the ICU bed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:25:44 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:19:25 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:06:04 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Would anyone advocating no lockdowns etc be prepared to stand in person and make the call in a hospital ward over who gets the ventilator and who doesn't when it hits that point ?

Would anyone advocating for lockdowns be prepared to tell a victim of domestic violence through lockdwon that it was necessary for her to go through with what she did?

This is the kind of bullshit projection that people who are consumed by Covid engage in

Doctors and healthcare workers have to deal with difficult decisions and death everyday in their job, it's not a Covid phenomenon.

Nice deviation. Maybe just say if you would be happy to make the call or not ?

That's what medical professionals do in their everyday job. It's tough, it's not a phenomenon that began with Covid so I find it bizarre you feel those decisions only apply to Covid.

Now I've addressed that, domestic violence cases rose in lockdown, be a gent and tell me if you would be happy to tell a victim of domestic violence that it was necessary they went through that ordeal?

Or are domestic violence victims worthless? Maybe you think they don't matter? That's the vibe I'm getting, unless it's Covid, it's irrelevant.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:28:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:25:44 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:19:25 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:06:04 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Would anyone advocating no lockdowns etc be prepared to stand in person and make the call in a hospital ward over who gets the ventilator and who doesn't when it hits that point ?

Would anyone advocating for lockdowns be prepared to tell a victim of domestic violence through lockdwon that it was necessary for her to go through with what she did?

This is the kind of bullshit projection that people who are consumed by Covid engage in

Doctors and healthcare workers have to deal with difficult decisions and death everyday in their job, it's not a Covid phenomenon.

Nice deviation. Maybe just say if you would be happy to make the call or not ?

That's what medical professionals do in their everyday job. It's tough, it's not a phenomenon that began with Covid so I find it bizarre you feel those decisions only apply to Covid.

Now I've addressed that, domestic violence cases rose in lockdown, be a gent and tell me if you would be happy to tell a victim of domestic violence that it was necessary they went through that ordeal?

Or are domestic violence victims worthless? Maybe you think they don't matter? That's the vibe I'm getting, unless it's Covid, it's irrelevant.

Yes - that is what i said in the only mention i have made of covid so far. Nothing else matters. Some leaps you are making.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:34:38 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:28:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:25:44 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:19:25 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:06:04 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Would anyone advocating no lockdowns etc be prepared to stand in person and make the call in a hospital ward over who gets the ventilator and who doesn't when it hits that point ?

Would anyone advocating for lockdowns be prepared to tell a victim of domestic violence through lockdwon that it was necessary for her to go through with what she did?

This is the kind of bullshit projection that people who are consumed by Covid engage in

Doctors and healthcare workers have to deal with difficult decisions and death everyday in their job, it's not a Covid phenomenon.

Nice deviation. Maybe just say if you would be happy to make the call or not ?

That's what medical professionals do in their everyday job. It's tough, it's not a phenomenon that began with Covid so I find it bizarre you feel those decisions only apply to Covid.

Now I've addressed that, domestic violence cases rose in lockdown, be a gent and tell me if you would be happy to tell a victim of domestic violence that it was necessary they went through that ordeal?

Or are domestic violence victims worthless? Maybe you think they don't matter? That's the vibe I'm getting, unless it's Covid, it's irrelevant.

Yes - that is what i said in the only mention i have made of covid so far. Nothing else matters. Some leaps you are making.

You contended that I'm happy to have doctors choose between who gets on a ventilator.

The least you could do to me is tell me how you would react to a lockdown victim of domestic violence.

You are so entrenched in your views that domestic violence victims seem to be irrelevant.

You don't even find their plight worthy of comment and discussion.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/17/domestic-abuse-surged-in-lockdown-panorama-investigation-finds-coronavirus

If you want to engage in hysteria, then we can engage in hysteria but clealry domestic violence victims don't matter in your eyes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maiden1 on October 22, 2020, 11:37:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
But this isn't the case

Even in the hypothetical event that there turned out to be no vaccine - and this seems very unlikely - there are effective strategies available, and there are countries that have already put them into practice and are successfully suppressing the virus while opening up their societies

From what I can make out you are proposing to lift all restrictions, with no suppression strategy

This is a right-wing American anarcho-capitalist talking point pushed by the likes of the Koch Brother(s)

The people proposing this are some of the worst people in the world

You are the person with all the questions to answer here because you are the person proposing that the population of Ireland and the population of the world becomes the subject of a grotesque experiment
Anarcho-capitalist talking point made me LOL (then google to try to figure out what it is).

I think you are giving people too much credit calling out fascists on multiple threads.  In this example people want to work to be able to pay their mortgage they don't have Mein Kampf in the drawer beside the bed.  I'd be interested in the make up of the jobs of the people on this board, what percentage have an income linked to the public sector and therefore have their income protected verses those that rely on a somewhat functioning economy and how strongly that influences their views.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on October 22, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
But wobbler, maybe he just is an idiot?

Not just because he has different views. You have different views on this to many of us and you're not an idiot. You can debate reasonably. But it's obvious the difference between your posts and his posts.
Have you seen him on other threads?

I do take it personally. I think many of the deniers just don't know anyone who's been hit with it. But that's no excuse, as many of the people who take it seriously don't know anyone hit badly by it. But I have a relation who was killed by it, another in her 30s who has lung scarring because of it and 6 months later still has serious respiratory issues when doing any kind of exercise, and finally someone who has developed Parkinson's post Covid. So I take it personally.

The other muppet doesn't even know how a discussion board works. 40 people disagree with him, so 40 replies are needed. Jeez Louise. 🙄
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 22, 2020, 11:44:56 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/YkNPn0d/IMG-20201021-WA0023.jpg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:47:49 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:34:38 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:28:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:25:44 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:19:25 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:06:04 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Would anyone advocating no lockdowns etc be prepared to stand in person and make the call in a hospital ward over who gets the ventilator and who doesn't when it hits that point ?

Would anyone advocating for lockdowns be prepared to tell a victim of domestic violence through lockdwon that it was necessary for her to go through with what she did?

This is the kind of bullshit projection that people who are consumed by Covid engage in

Doctors and healthcare workers have to deal with difficult decisions and death everyday in their job, it's not a Covid phenomenon.

Nice deviation. Maybe just say if you would be happy to make the call or not ?

That's what medical professionals do in their everyday job. It's tough, it's not a phenomenon that began with Covid so I find it bizarre you feel those decisions only apply to Covid.

Now I've addressed that, domestic violence cases rose in lockdown, be a gent and tell me if you would be happy to tell a victim of domestic violence that it was necessary they went through that ordeal?

Or are domestic violence victims worthless? Maybe you think they don't matter? That's the vibe I'm getting, unless it's Covid, it's irrelevant.

Yes - that is what i said in the only mention i have made of covid so far. Nothing else matters. Some leaps you are making.

You contended that I'm happy to have doctors choose between who gets on a ventilator.

The least you could do to me is tell me how you would react to a lockdown victim of domestic violence.

You are so entrenched in your views that domestic violence victims seem to be irrelevant.

You don't even find their plight worthy of comment and discussion.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/17/domestic-abuse-surged-in-lockdown-panorama-investigation-finds-coronavirus

If you want to engage in hysteria, then we can engage in hysteria but clealry domestic violence victims don't matter in your eyes.

Comment and discussion on the subject is very worthy of anyone's time. What i should have done was used some of that time to read back a little bit to get a flavour of your modus operandi.
Good luck.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
But wobbler, maybe he just is an idiot?

Not just because he has different views. You have different views on this to many of us and you're not an idiot. You can debate reasonably. But it's obvious the difference between your posts and his posts.
Have you seen him on other threads?

I do take it personally. I think many of the deniers just don't know anyone who's been hit with it. But that's no excuse, as many of the people who take it seriously don't know anyone hit badly by it. But I have a relation who was killed by it, another in her 30s who has lung scarring because of it and 6 months later still has serious respiratory issues when doing any kind of exercise, and finally someone who has developed Parkinson's post Covid. So I take it personally.

The other muppet doesn't even know how a discussion board works. 40 people disagree with him, so 40 replies are needed. Jeez Louise. 🙄

This is the type of snide piece of shit response you get here.

We can all play victim bingo. There are plenty of victims of lockdown, plenty of people who have been harmed mentally, socially, physically - vulnerable people. But hey, f**k them right.

What makes the people you know so much more important than all those victims?

I had a 77 year old uncle pass away 4 weeks ago. He had cancer in remission, he had been failing badly for a number of months but wasn't seen to. About 6 weeks ago he was admitted to hospital and was told he had weeks to live. He's another victim of lockdown.

So spare me your f**king conceited arrogance.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:49:32 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:47:49 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:34:38 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:28:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:25:44 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:19:25 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:06:04 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Would anyone advocating no lockdowns etc be prepared to stand in person and make the call in a hospital ward over who gets the ventilator and who doesn't when it hits that point ?

Would anyone advocating for lockdowns be prepared to tell a victim of domestic violence through lockdwon that it was necessary for her to go through with what she did?

This is the kind of bullshit projection that people who are consumed by Covid engage in

Doctors and healthcare workers have to deal with difficult decisions and death everyday in their job, it's not a Covid phenomenon.

Nice deviation. Maybe just say if you would be happy to make the call or not ?

That's what medical professionals do in their everyday job. It's tough, it's not a phenomenon that began with Covid so I find it bizarre you feel those decisions only apply to Covid.

Now I've addressed that, domestic violence cases rose in lockdown, be a gent and tell me if you would be happy to tell a victim of domestic violence that it was necessary they went through that ordeal?

Or are domestic violence victims worthless? Maybe you think they don't matter? That's the vibe I'm getting, unless it's Covid, it's irrelevant.

Yes - that is what i said in the only mention i have made of covid so far. Nothing else matters. Some leaps you are making.

You contended that I'm happy to have doctors choose between who gets on a ventilator.

The least you could do to me is tell me how you would react to a lockdown victim of domestic violence.

You are so entrenched in your views that domestic violence victims seem to be irrelevant.

You don't even find their plight worthy of comment and discussion.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/17/domestic-abuse-surged-in-lockdown-panorama-investigation-finds-coronavirus

If you want to engage in hysteria, then we can engage in hysteria but clealry domestic violence victims don't matter in your eyes.

Comment and discussion on the subject is very worthy of anyone's time. What i should have done was used some of that time to read back a little bit to get a flavour of your modus operandi.
Good luck.

What you should have done is realise that lockdown has severe and widespread impacts on lots of people.

Those at risk of covid are not higher on any sort of hierarchy than other vulnerable people.

You would do well to meet that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:53:58 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 10:50:42 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:02:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 11:45:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 21, 2020, 09:56:37 PM
We've had a good few posters here imploring for things to be "opened up"

Yet I can't recall any of these posters ever imploring for a proper test and trace system

Or a Zero Covid system

Both of these are strategies to suppress the virus and have been shown to work when done properly

So the clear implication is that these people want to open up without either proper test and trace or Zero Covid

What sort of person wants to open up without a suppression strategy rather than open up with a suppression strategy?

Sociopaths, that's who

Let's hide under our beds until 2023 then.

Let's crank up domestic violence cases, unemployment and mental health problems in that time.

At what benefit?

Did you ever call for a lockdown in any of the past flu seasons? If you didn't then you're a sociopath by your own definition.
You're deflecting more than a Mayo defender in the first half of the 2016 All-Ireland final

Why do you want to open up society fully without a suppression strategy rather than open it up cautiously with a suppression strategy?

And why is this the loony right's continued narrative?

The logical conclusion is that the loony right sees mass death as a good thing in and of itself

And one only has to look at Trump to see this is indeed the case in reality

Learn to read dumbass, the only person mentioning society opening up fully is you.

As usual you are being disingenuous, you are dealing in misrepresentation and providing false information.

We have measures in place with the virus, social distancing, increased hand hygiene, compulsory mask wearing, limited indoor gatherings - these practices continue until such time as science has cracked or the virus burns out - I find the latter much more likely.

So f**k off for yourself your usual nutjob right wing crap because you are completely unable to stick to what is true. You're actually the one advocating lockdown measures, if you had any brain matter between your ears you might realise that fascism is more in line with your rhetoric than anyone else on this thread.

The course of action we are taking is going to create widespread societal and economic problems, domestic violence cases rose during the last lockdown, addiction relapses increased, mental health problems increased, financial hardship increased, businesses will go the wall which leads to job losses, there are many more consequences.

And for what? What benefit are we doing this for? To save lives? What about the lives this course of actions costs, what about the lives it ruins, the businesses it closes, the marriages and relationships it destroys?

I've asked cowards like you, Franko, Milltown and all the rest a simple question and it goes to show how spineless you all are. None of you have the guts to answer as doing so shows complete and utter hypocrisy.

We live with seasonal flu every year, it kills people, it consumes the health service, it causes long lasting health impacts - but whatever risk we attach to that we deem it acceptable. It happens ever year and we don't change anything about our lives. Now maybe you finally grow a pair of balls and answer me this - at what point does Covid become an acceptable risk like flu?

I sincerely doubt you have enough backbone to address that though.

Thanks for the insults, it's clear I've touched a raw nerve

The fact is, you are arguing for a situation where the virus continues to spread and grow

You have to have a suppression strategy

If you have a suppression strategy that works, then you can cautiously open up society, perhaps to effectively full liberalisation

But you have never argued for a suppression strategy

You have never argued for effective find, test, trace, isolate or for Zero Covid

Your argument is to let the virus continue to rip - because that's what it was doing under Level 2 and Level 3

That is not a tenable argument

At all







Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:58:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
But wobbler, maybe he just is an idiot?

Not just because he has different views. You have different views on this to many of us and you're not an idiot. You can debate reasonably. But it's obvious the difference between your posts and his posts.
Have you seen him on other threads?

I do take it personally. I think many of the deniers just don't know anyone who's been hit with it. But that's no excuse, as many of the people who take it seriously don't know anyone hit badly by it. But I have a relation who was killed by it, another in her 30s who has lung scarring because of it and 6 months later still has serious respiratory issues when doing any kind of exercise, and finally someone who has developed Parkinson's post Covid. So I take it personally.

The other muppet doesn't even know how a discussion board works. 40 people disagree with him, so 40 replies are needed. Jeez Louise. 🙄

This is the type of snide piece of shit response you get here.

We can all play victim bingo. There are plenty of victims of lockdown, plenty of people who have been harmed mentally, socially, physically - vulnerable people. But hey, f**k them right.

What makes the people you know so much more important than all those victims?

I had a 77 year old uncle pass away 4 weeks ago. He had cancer in remission, he had been failing badly for a number of months but wasn't seen to. About 6 weeks ago he was admitted to hospital and was told he had weeks to live. He's another victim of lockdown.

So spare me your f**king conceited arrogance.
Sorry to hear about your uncle

But are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

Because that's what you're strongly implying
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:01:20 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
But wobbler, maybe he just is an idiot?

Not just because he has different views. You have different views on this to many of us and you're not an idiot. You can debate reasonably. But it's obvious the difference between your posts and his posts.
Have you seen him on other threads?

I do take it personally. I think many of the deniers just don't know anyone who's been hit with it. But that's no excuse, as many of the people who take it seriously don't know anyone hit badly by it. But I have a relation who was killed by it, another in her 30s who has lung scarring because of it and 6 months later still has serious respiratory issues when doing any kind of exercise, and finally someone who has developed Parkinson's post Covid. So I take it personally.

The other muppet doesn't even know how a discussion board works. 40 people disagree with him, so 40 replies are needed. Jeez Louise. 🙄
Wobbler is a great man for the Spiked Online style buzzwords

2+2 is never 4, it's "groupthink"

That's exactly how right-wing professional merchants of doubt work - the smoking causes cancer deniers, climate crisis deniers, the Covid deniers all work that way
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:01:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:53:58 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 10:50:42 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:02:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 21, 2020, 11:45:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 21, 2020, 09:56:37 PM
We've had a good few posters here imploring for things to be "opened up"

Yet I can't recall any of these posters ever imploring for a proper test and trace system

Or a Zero Covid system

Both of these are strategies to suppress the virus and have been shown to work when done properly

So the clear implication is that these people want to open up without either proper test and trace or Zero Covid

What sort of person wants to open up without a suppression strategy rather than open up with a suppression strategy?

Sociopaths, that's who

Let's hide under our beds until 2023 then.

Let's crank up domestic violence cases, unemployment and mental health problems in that time.

At what benefit?

Did you ever call for a lockdown in any of the past flu seasons? If you didn't then you're a sociopath by your own definition.
You're deflecting more than a Mayo defender in the first half of the 2016 All-Ireland final

Why do you want to open up society fully without a suppression strategy rather than open it up cautiously with a suppression strategy?

And why is this the loony right's continued narrative?

The logical conclusion is that the loony right sees mass death as a good thing in and of itself

And one only has to look at Trump to see this is indeed the case in reality

Learn to read dumbass, the only person mentioning society opening up fully is you.

As usual you are being disingenuous, you are dealing in misrepresentation and providing false information.

We have measures in place with the virus, social distancing, increased hand hygiene, compulsory mask wearing, limited indoor gatherings - these practices continue until such time as science has cracked or the virus burns out - I find the latter much more likely.

So f**k off for yourself your usual nutjob right wing crap because you are completely unable to stick to what is true. You're actually the one advocating lockdown measures, if you had any brain matter between your ears you might realise that fascism is more in line with your rhetoric than anyone else on this thread.

The course of action we are taking is going to create widespread societal and economic problems, domestic violence cases rose during the last lockdown, addiction relapses increased, mental health problems increased, financial hardship increased, businesses will go the wall which leads to job losses, there are many more consequences.

And for what? What benefit are we doing this for? To save lives? What about the lives this course of actions costs, what about the lives it ruins, the businesses it closes, the marriages and relationships it destroys?

I've asked cowards like you, Franko, Milltown and all the rest a simple question and it goes to show how spineless you all are. None of you have the guts to answer as doing so shows complete and utter hypocrisy.

We live with seasonal flu every year, it kills people, it consumes the health service, it causes long lasting health impacts - but whatever risk we attach to that we deem it acceptable. It happens ever year and we don't change anything about our lives. Now maybe you finally grow a pair of balls and answer me this - at what point does Covid become an acceptable risk like flu?

I sincerely doubt you have enough backbone to address that though.

Thanks for the insults, it's clear I've touched a raw nerve

The fact is, you are arguing for a situation where the virus continues to spread and grow

You have to have a suppression strategy

If you have a suppression strategy that works, then you can cautiously open up society, perhaps to effectively full liberalisation

But you have never argued for a suppression strategy

You have never argued for effective find, test, trace, isolate or for Zero Covid

Your argument is to let the virus continue to rip - because that's what it was doing under Level 2 and Level 3

That is not a tenable argument

At all

You're welcome, the insults are just me returning back.

I'm arguing for a situation I believe is the lesser evil. If you want to ramp up domestic violence cases, mental health problems, job losses, business closures, reduction in support services to people with disabilities and addictions, social isolation of elderly and vulnerable people then that's your call but I happen to think that it is important we look at a bigger picture. It's clear as day that you don't.

I have never argued for those strategies as I don't think they are achievable, we are now repeating the same mistakes we did when the virus first hit our shores. I have said I'd like to see us take the course of action Slovakia are currently trying to implement in mass testing as it's a progressive strategy, I have argued against lockdown as a means of buying time without any achievable strategy in place. Because in a few months time we'll be in another lockdown and with each further lockdown we enter, the societal problems it creates multiply.

What you are putting forward is airy-fairy pie in the sky stuff that has no resonance with reality.

We get on and live with the virus. We live with seasonal flu and all the risks it takes so answer me this, at what level does Covid carry an acceptable risk? You and all the other cowards still run away from that one? It's a simple question, why does answering it scare you so much?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:58:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
But wobbler, maybe he just is an idiot?

Not just because he has different views. You have different views on this to many of us and you're not an idiot. You can debate reasonably. But it's obvious the difference between your posts and his posts.
Have you seen him on other threads?

I do take it personally. I think many of the deniers just don't know anyone who's been hit with it. But that's no excuse, as many of the people who take it seriously don't know anyone hit badly by it. But I have a relation who was killed by it, another in her 30s who has lung scarring because of it and 6 months later still has serious respiratory issues when doing any kind of exercise, and finally someone who has developed Parkinson's post Covid. So I take it personally.

The other muppet doesn't even know how a discussion board works. 40 people disagree with him, so 40 replies are needed. Jeez Louise. 🙄

This is the type of snide piece of shit response you get here.

We can all play victim bingo. There are plenty of victims of lockdown, plenty of people who have been harmed mentally, socially, physically - vulnerable people. But hey, f**k them right.

What makes the people you know so much more important than all those victims?

I had a 77 year old uncle pass away 4 weeks ago. He had cancer in remission, he had been failing badly for a number of months but wasn't seen to. About 6 weeks ago he was admitted to hospital and was told he had weeks to live. He's another victim of lockdown.

So spare me your f**king conceited arrogance.
Sorry to hear about your uncle

But are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

Because that's what you're strongly implying

He would have been diagnosed months ago had the whole health service not been consumed by Covid.

The way things have gone, unless you have Covid you are not priority, it does not matter the seriousness of graveness of your ailment - Covid takes precedent.

If Hound wants to take snide shots like that then maybe he should be prepared that ask people who have lost loved ones or suffered hardship as a result of actions made to curb Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:06:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
But this isn't the case

Even in the hypothetical event that there turned out to be no vaccine - and this seems very unlikely - there are effective strategies available, and there are countries that have already put them into practice and are successfully suppressing the virus while opening up their societies

From what I can make out you are proposing to lift all restrictions, with no suppression strategy

This is a right-wing American anarcho-capitalist talking point pushed by the likes of the Koch Brother(s)

The people proposing this are some of the worst people in the world

You are the person with all the questions to answer here because you are the person proposing that the population of Ireland and the population of the world becomes the subject of a grotesque experiment

Sorry busy working there - where have a advocated let it rip - ill just let you post all the quotes, I haven't many posts so it won't take you long.  I have stated we need to learn to live with it, that is totally different to what you are insinuating I said.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:09:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2020, 11:20:20 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Would anyone advocating no lockdowns etc be prepared to stand in person and make the call in a hospital ward over who gets the ventilator and who doesn't when it hits that point ?
Well said.
Do we perform the life saving heart surgery on Patient A or do we leave the Covid comatose Patient B in the ICU bed.

Doctors make decisions all the time about these things, it's due to an underfunded health system - so stop with the drama.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:12:13 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:09:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2020, 11:20:20 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Would anyone advocating no lockdowns etc be prepared to stand in person and make the call in a hospital ward over who gets the ventilator and who doesn't when it hits that point ?
Well said.
Do we perform the life saving heart surgery on Patient A or do we leave the Covid comatose Patient B in the ICU bed.

Doctors make decisions all the time about these things, it's due to an underfunded health system - so stop with the drama.

Rossfan could never be accused of letting common sense or reality overtake his sanctimony.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:14:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:53:58 AM

Thanks for the insults, it's clear I've touched a raw nerve



But telling anyone who has sever reservations about the societal effects of repeated lockdowns they are Sociopaths is acceptable?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:14:53 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 22, 2020, 11:37:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
But this isn't the case

Even in the hypothetical event that there turned out to be no vaccine - and this seems very unlikely - there are effective strategies available, and there are countries that have already put them into practice and are successfully suppressing the virus while opening up their societies

From what I can make out you are proposing to lift all restrictions, with no suppression strategy

This is a right-wing American anarcho-capitalist talking point pushed by the likes of the Koch Brother(s)

The people proposing this are some of the worst people in the world

You are the person with all the questions to answer here because you are the person proposing that the population of Ireland and the population of the world becomes the subject of a grotesque experiment
Anarcho-capitalist talking point made me LOL (then google to try to figure out what it is).

I think you are giving people too much credit calling out fascists on multiple threads.  In this example people want to work to be able to pay their mortgage they don't have Mein Kampf in the drawer beside the bed.  I'd be interested in the make up of the jobs of the people on this board, what percentage have an income linked to the public sector and therefore have their income protected verses those that rely on a somewhat functioning economy and how strongly that influences their views.
I haven't accused any other posters of being a fascist on this thread, I think I've mentioned it once in relation to the Trump regime and in that context it's certianly accurate

Wobbler has certainly been very big on using the word on this thread however because he's running very low on arguments

Fulvio is getting in the act now too for the same reason

Quite instructive

Funny you mention people's jobs because a let it rip strategy is a surefire way to destroy jobs

I couldn't think of anything more entitled or elitist or classist than a let it rip strategy

Those posters who are pushing it should understand they are pushing an anti-worker, pro-big business right-wing American think tank narrative which would kill a hell of a lot of people

If that's what they believe, fine, they're entitled to do that, but at least be honest about whose interests it would be serving
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:17:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:14:53 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 22, 2020, 11:37:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
But this isn't the case

Even in the hypothetical event that there turned out to be no vaccine - and this seems very unlikely - there are effective strategies available, and there are countries that have already put them into practice and are successfully suppressing the virus while opening up their societies

From what I can make out you are proposing to lift all restrictions, with no suppression strategy

This is a right-wing American anarcho-capitalist talking point pushed by the likes of the Koch Brother(s)

The people proposing this are some of the worst people in the world

You are the person with all the questions to answer here because you are the person proposing that the population of Ireland and the population of the world becomes the subject of a grotesque experiment
Anarcho-capitalist talking point made me LOL (then google to try to figure out what it is).

I think you are giving people too much credit calling out fascists on multiple threads.  In this example people want to work to be able to pay their mortgage they don't have Mein Kampf in the drawer beside the bed.  I'd be interested in the make up of the jobs of the people on this board, what percentage have an income linked to the public sector and therefore have their income protected verses those that rely on a somewhat functioning economy and how strongly that influences their views.
I haven't accused any other posters of being a fascist on this thread, I think I've mentioned it once in relation to the Trump regime and in that context it's certianly accurate

Wobbler has certainly been very big on using the word on this thread however because he's running very low on arguments

Fulvio is getting in the act now too for the same reason

Quite instructive

Funny you mention people's jobs because a let it rip strategy is a surefire way to destroy jobs

I couldn't think of anything more entitled or elitist or classist than a let it rip strategy

Those posters who are pushing it should understand they are pushing an anti-worker, pro-big business right-wing American think tank narrative which would kill a hell of a lot of people

If that's what they believe, fine, they're entitled to do that, but at least be honest about whose interests it would be serving

Who is letting it rip - you are obsessed, letting folk live can be done in unison with protecting the most vulnerable, what's your profession?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:18:31 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:14:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:53:58 AM

Thanks for the insults, it's clear I've touched a raw nerve



But telling anyone who has sever reservations about the societal effects of repeated lockdowns they are Sociopaths is acceptable?
But I'm stating a very reasonable opinion which I think most people would agree with

You are pushing a let it rip strategy, that's the clear impression I'm getting of you anyway and you have done absolutely nothing to dispel that

You are proposing to just let many thousands of people die

That view is incredibly selfish

I think it's very fair to call that sociopathic
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:20:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:14:53 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 22, 2020, 11:37:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
But this isn't the case

Even in the hypothetical event that there turned out to be no vaccine - and this seems very unlikely - there are effective strategies available, and there are countries that have already put them into practice and are successfully suppressing the virus while opening up their societies

From what I can make out you are proposing to lift all restrictions, with no suppression strategy

This is a right-wing American anarcho-capitalist talking point pushed by the likes of the Koch Brother(s)

The people proposing this are some of the worst people in the world

You are the person with all the questions to answer here because you are the person proposing that the population of Ireland and the population of the world becomes the subject of a grotesque experiment
Anarcho-capitalist talking point made me LOL (then google to try to figure out what it is).

I think you are giving people too much credit calling out fascists on multiple threads.  In this example people want to work to be able to pay their mortgage they don't have Mein Kampf in the drawer beside the bed.  I'd be interested in the make up of the jobs of the people on this board, what percentage have an income linked to the public sector and therefore have their income protected verses those that rely on a somewhat functioning economy and how strongly that influences their views.
I haven't accused any other posters of being a fascist on this thread, I think I've mentioned it once in relation to the Trump regime and in that context it's certianly accurate

Wobbler has certainly been very big on using the word on this thread however because he's running very low on arguments

Fulvio is getting in the act now too for the same reason

Quite instructive

Funny you mention people's jobs because a let it rip strategy is a surefire way to destroy jobs

I couldn't think of anything more entitled or elitist or classist than a let it rip strategy

Those posters who are pushing it should understand they are pushing an anti-worker, pro-big business right-wing American think tank narrative which would kill a hell of a lot of people

If that's what they believe, fine, they're entitled to do that, but at least be honest about whose interests it would be serving

Who has mentioned letting it rip.

You're very good at twisting things people have said. Nobody has mentioned let it rip here.

We need to get on with our lives though, there are measures such as mask wearing, social distancing, limited capacities, hand hygiene and other measures which can help us get on with things.

Lockdowns have far more damaging widespread consequences on society than Covid. The chances of Covid killing fit and healthy people or causing long terms effects remains extremely remote. The chances of lockdown doing similar carry far more risk.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:22:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:18:31 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:14:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:53:58 AM

Thanks for the insults, it's clear I've touched a raw nerve



But telling anyone who has sever reservations about the societal effects of repeated lockdowns they are Sociopaths is acceptable?
But I'm stating a very reasonable opinion which I think most people would agree with

You are pushing a let it rip strategy, that's the clear impression I'm getting of you anyway and you have done absolutely nothing to dispel that

You are proposing to just let many thousands of people die

That view is incredibly selfish

I think it's very fair to call that sociopathic

Quote me where I said let it rip - please I only have 40 odd posts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:17:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:14:53 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 22, 2020, 11:37:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
But this isn't the case

Even in the hypothetical event that there turned out to be no vaccine - and this seems very unlikely - there are effective strategies available, and there are countries that have already put them into practice and are successfully suppressing the virus while opening up their societies

From what I can make out you are proposing to lift all restrictions, with no suppression strategy

This is a right-wing American anarcho-capitalist talking point pushed by the likes of the Koch Brother(s)

The people proposing this are some of the worst people in the world

You are the person with all the questions to answer here because you are the person proposing that the population of Ireland and the population of the world becomes the subject of a grotesque experiment
Anarcho-capitalist talking point made me LOL (then google to try to figure out what it is).

I think you are giving people too much credit calling out fascists on multiple threads.  In this example people want to work to be able to pay their mortgage they don't have Mein Kampf in the drawer beside the bed.  I'd be interested in the make up of the jobs of the people on this board, what percentage have an income linked to the public sector and therefore have their income protected verses those that rely on a somewhat functioning economy and how strongly that influences their views.
I haven't accused any other posters of being a fascist on this thread, I think I've mentioned it once in relation to the Trump regime and in that context it's certianly accurate

Wobbler has certainly been very big on using the word on this thread however because he's running very low on arguments

Fulvio is getting in the act now too for the same reason

Quite instructive

Funny you mention people's jobs because a let it rip strategy is a surefire way to destroy jobs

I couldn't think of anything more entitled or elitist or classist than a let it rip strategy

Those posters who are pushing it should understand they are pushing an anti-worker, pro-big business right-wing American think tank narrative which would kill a hell of a lot of people

If that's what they believe, fine, they're entitled to do that, but at least be honest about whose interests it would be serving

Who is letting it rip - you are obsessed, letting folk live can be done in unison with protecting the most vulnerable, what's your profession?
Not without an effective suppression strategy - and you are not proposing an effective suppression strategy

Thanks for the childish rhetoric which doesn't advance your argument one iota

I'm under no obligation whatsoever to tell you what I do

Why on earth should I be?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:23:22 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:22:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:18:31 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:14:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:53:58 AM

Thanks for the insults, it's clear I've touched a raw nerve



But telling anyone who has sever reservations about the societal effects of repeated lockdowns they are Sociopaths is acceptable?
But I'm stating a very reasonable opinion which I think most people would agree with

You are pushing a let it rip strategy, that's the clear impression I'm getting of you anyway and you have done absolutely nothing to dispel that

You are proposing to just let many thousands of people die

That view is incredibly selfish

I think it's very fair to call that sociopathic

Quote me where I said let it rip - please I only have 40 odd posts.

Well here's your chance - tell us exactly what you are proposing - "let people live" is not a strategy, it's a meaningless slogan
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:24:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:17:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:14:53 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 22, 2020, 11:37:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
But this isn't the case

Even in the hypothetical event that there turned out to be no vaccine - and this seems very unlikely - there are effective strategies available, and there are countries that have already put them into practice and are successfully suppressing the virus while opening up their societies

From what I can make out you are proposing to lift all restrictions, with no suppression strategy

This is a right-wing American anarcho-capitalist talking point pushed by the likes of the Koch Brother(s)

The people proposing this are some of the worst people in the world

You are the person with all the questions to answer here because you are the person proposing that the population of Ireland and the population of the world becomes the subject of a grotesque experiment
Anarcho-capitalist talking point made me LOL (then google to try to figure out what it is).

I think you are giving people too much credit calling out fascists on multiple threads.  In this example people want to work to be able to pay their mortgage they don't have Mein Kampf in the drawer beside the bed.  I'd be interested in the make up of the jobs of the people on this board, what percentage have an income linked to the public sector and therefore have their income protected verses those that rely on a somewhat functioning economy and how strongly that influences their views.
I haven't accused any other posters of being a fascist on this thread, I think I've mentioned it once in relation to the Trump regime and in that context it's certianly accurate

Wobbler has certainly been very big on using the word on this thread however because he's running very low on arguments

Fulvio is getting in the act now too for the same reason

Quite instructive

Funny you mention people's jobs because a let it rip strategy is a surefire way to destroy jobs

I couldn't think of anything more entitled or elitist or classist than a let it rip strategy

Those posters who are pushing it should understand they are pushing an anti-worker, pro-big business right-wing American think tank narrative which would kill a hell of a lot of people

If that's what they believe, fine, they're entitled to do that, but at least be honest about whose interests it would be serving

Who is letting it rip - you are obsessed, letting folk live can be done in unison with protecting the most vulnerable, what's your profession?
Not without an effective suppression strategy - and you are not proposing an effective suppression strategy

Thanks for the childish rhetoric which doesn't advance your argument one iota

I'm under no obligation whatsoever to tell you what I do

Why on earth should I be?

Implementing lockdown as a suppression strategy does more harm on society than good.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:24:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:23:22 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:22:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:18:31 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:14:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:53:58 AM

Thanks for the insults, it's clear I've touched a raw nerve



But telling anyone who has sever reservations about the societal effects of repeated lockdowns they are Sociopaths is acceptable?
But I'm stating a very reasonable opinion which I think most people would agree with

You are pushing a let it rip strategy, that's the clear impression I'm getting of you anyway and you have done absolutely nothing to dispel that

You are proposing to just let many thousands of people die

That view is incredibly selfish

I think it's very fair to call that sociopathic

Quote me where I said let it rip - please I only have 40 odd posts.

Well here's your chance - tell us exactly what you are proposing - "let people live" is not a strategy, it's a meaningless slogan

Quote me where I said let it rip!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:26:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:20:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:14:53 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 22, 2020, 11:37:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
But this isn't the case

Even in the hypothetical event that there turned out to be no vaccine - and this seems very unlikely - there are effective strategies available, and there are countries that have already put them into practice and are successfully suppressing the virus while opening up their societies

From what I can make out you are proposing to lift all restrictions, with no suppression strategy

This is a right-wing American anarcho-capitalist talking point pushed by the likes of the Koch Brother(s)

The people proposing this are some of the worst people in the world

You are the person with all the questions to answer here because you are the person proposing that the population of Ireland and the population of the world becomes the subject of a grotesque experiment
Anarcho-capitalist talking point made me LOL (then google to try to figure out what it is).

I think you are giving people too much credit calling out fascists on multiple threads.  In this example people want to work to be able to pay their mortgage they don't have Mein Kampf in the drawer beside the bed.  I'd be interested in the make up of the jobs of the people on this board, what percentage have an income linked to the public sector and therefore have their income protected verses those that rely on a somewhat functioning economy and how strongly that influences their views.
I haven't accused any other posters of being a fascist on this thread, I think I've mentioned it once in relation to the Trump regime and in that context it's certianly accurate

Wobbler has certainly been very big on using the word on this thread however because he's running very low on arguments

Fulvio is getting in the act now too for the same reason

Quite instructive

Funny you mention people's jobs because a let it rip strategy is a surefire way to destroy jobs

I couldn't think of anything more entitled or elitist or classist than a let it rip strategy

Those posters who are pushing it should understand they are pushing an anti-worker, pro-big business right-wing American think tank narrative which would kill a hell of a lot of people

If that's what they believe, fine, they're entitled to do that, but at least be honest about whose interests it would be serving

Who has mentioned letting it rip.

You're very good at twisting things people have said. Nobody has mentioned let it rip here.

We need to get on with our lives though, there are measures such as mask wearing, social distancing, limited capacities, hand hygiene and other measures which can help us get on with things.

Lockdowns have far more damaging widespread consequences on society than Covid. The chances of Covid killing fit and healthy people or causing long terms effects remains extremely remote. The chances of lockdown doing similar carry far more risk.
But what is deliberately letting the virus continue to increase in spread in perpetuity if not "let it rip"

What you are writing here is meaningless sloganeering

I realise that you're missing the pub but you need a higher level of argument than barstool sloganeering

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:26:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:17:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:14:53 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 22, 2020, 11:37:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
But this isn't the case

Even in the hypothetical event that there turned out to be no vaccine - and this seems very unlikely - there are effective strategies available, and there are countries that have already put them into practice and are successfully suppressing the virus while opening up their societies

From what I can make out you are proposing to lift all restrictions, with no suppression strategy

This is a right-wing American anarcho-capitalist talking point pushed by the likes of the Koch Brother(s)

The people proposing this are some of the worst people in the world

You are the person with all the questions to answer here because you are the person proposing that the population of Ireland and the population of the world becomes the subject of a grotesque experiment
Anarcho-capitalist talking point made me LOL (then google to try to figure out what it is).

I think you are giving people too much credit calling out fascists on multiple threads.  In this example people want to work to be able to pay their mortgage they don't have Mein Kampf in the drawer beside the bed.  I'd be interested in the make up of the jobs of the people on this board, what percentage have an income linked to the public sector and therefore have their income protected verses those that rely on a somewhat functioning economy and how strongly that influences their views.
I haven't accused any other posters of being a fascist on this thread, I think I've mentioned it once in relation to the Trump regime and in that context it's certianly accurate

Wobbler has certainly been very big on using the word on this thread however because he's running very low on arguments

Fulvio is getting in the act now too for the same reason

Quite instructive

Funny you mention people's jobs because a let it rip strategy is a surefire way to destroy jobs

I couldn't think of anything more entitled or elitist or classist than a let it rip strategy

Those posters who are pushing it should understand they are pushing an anti-worker, pro-big business right-wing American think tank narrative which would kill a hell of a lot of people

If that's what they believe, fine, they're entitled to do that, but at least be honest about whose interests it would be serving

Who is letting it rip - you are obsessed, letting folk live can be done in unison with protecting the most vulnerable, what's your profession?
Not without an effective suppression strategy - and you are not proposing an effective suppression strategy

Thanks for the childish rhetoric which doesn't advance your argument one iota

I'm under no obligation whatsoever to tell you what I do

Why on earth should I be?

Because if you in a cushy civil servants role sitting at home on full pay as you have no computer, it makes a hell of a difference, no wonder you can post so much drivel, I will ask one more time post where I said let it rip!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:27:01 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:24:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:23:22 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:22:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:18:31 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:14:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:53:58 AM

Thanks for the insults, it's clear I've touched a raw nerve



But telling anyone who has sever reservations about the societal effects of repeated lockdowns they are Sociopaths is acceptable?
But I'm stating a very reasonable opinion which I think most people would agree with

You are pushing a let it rip strategy, that's the clear impression I'm getting of you anyway and you have done absolutely nothing to dispel that

You are proposing to just let many thousands of people die

That view is incredibly selfish

I think it's very fair to call that sociopathic

Quote me where I said let it rip - please I only have 40 odd posts.

Well here's your chance - tell us exactly what you are proposing - "let people live" is not a strategy, it's a meaningless slogan

Quote me where I said let it rip!
So you refuse to answer the question

That's not an argument
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:27:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:26:01 PM

But what is deliberately letting the virus continue to increase in spread in perpetuity if not "let it rip"

What you are writing here is meaningless sloganeering

I realise that you're missing the pub but you need a higher level of argument than barstool sloganeering

You are covering yourself in glory with each post, the only person talking about let it rip is yourself.  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:28:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:27:01 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:24:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:23:22 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:22:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:18:31 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:14:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:53:58 AM

Thanks for the insults, it's clear I've touched a raw nerve



But telling anyone who has sever reservations about the societal effects of repeated lockdowns they are Sociopaths is acceptable?
But I'm stating a very reasonable opinion which I think most people would agree with

You are pushing a let it rip strategy, that's the clear impression I'm getting of you anyway and you have done absolutely nothing to dispel that

You are proposing to just let many thousands of people die

That view is incredibly selfish

I think it's very fair to call that sociopathic

Quote me where I said let it rip - please I only have 40 odd posts.

Well here's your chance - tell us exactly what you are proposing - "let people live" is not a strategy, it's a meaningless slogan

Quote me where I said let it rip!
So you refuse to answer the question

That's not an argument

Tell you what lad, ill answer all your questions when you quote where I said let it rip.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:33:00 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:26:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:17:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:14:53 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 22, 2020, 11:37:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
But this isn't the case

Even in the hypothetical event that there turned out to be no vaccine - and this seems very unlikely - there are effective strategies available, and there are countries that have already put them into practice and are successfully suppressing the virus while opening up their societies

From what I can make out you are proposing to lift all restrictions, with no suppression strategy

This is a right-wing American anarcho-capitalist talking point pushed by the likes of the Koch Brother(s)

The people proposing this are some of the worst people in the world

You are the person with all the questions to answer here because you are the person proposing that the population of Ireland and the population of the world becomes the subject of a grotesque experiment
Anarcho-capitalist talking point made me LOL (then google to try to figure out what it is).

I think you are giving people too much credit calling out fascists on multiple threads.  In this example people want to work to be able to pay their mortgage they don't have Mein Kampf in the drawer beside the bed.  I'd be interested in the make up of the jobs of the people on this board, what percentage have an income linked to the public sector and therefore have their income protected verses those that rely on a somewhat functioning economy and how strongly that influences their views.
I haven't accused any other posters of being a fascist on this thread, I think I've mentioned it once in relation to the Trump regime and in that context it's certianly accurate

Wobbler has certainly been very big on using the word on this thread however because he's running very low on arguments

Fulvio is getting in the act now too for the same reason

Quite instructive

Funny you mention people's jobs because a let it rip strategy is a surefire way to destroy jobs

I couldn't think of anything more entitled or elitist or classist than a let it rip strategy

Those posters who are pushing it should understand they are pushing an anti-worker, pro-big business right-wing American think tank narrative which would kill a hell of a lot of people

If that's what they believe, fine, they're entitled to do that, but at least be honest about whose interests it would be serving

Who is letting it rip - you are obsessed, letting folk live can be done in unison with protecting the most vulnerable, what's your profession?
Not without an effective suppression strategy - and you are not proposing an effective suppression strategy

Thanks for the childish rhetoric which doesn't advance your argument one iota

I'm under no obligation whatsoever to tell you what I do

Why on earth should I be?

Because if you in a cushy civil servants role sitting at home on full pay as you have no computer, it makes a hell of a difference, no wonder you can post so much drivel, I will ask one more time post where I said let it rip!
Yet Angelo has posted a lot more than I have on this thread over the last while but you aren't asking him what he does because he agrees with you

Very strange

I couldn't care less what Angelo does though because I'm interested in the reality of the situation, not what people work at or do not work at

Your whole argument has been based on a let it rip strategy, you have said nothing to dispel that and when offered the chance to dispel it and put forward a strategy, you point blank refuse

Therefore it's perfectly reasonable to draw conclusions that you do indeed favour a let it rip scenario

In short, there's no reason at all to take you in any way seriously
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:33:34 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:26:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:20:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:14:53 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 22, 2020, 11:37:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
But this isn't the case

Even in the hypothetical event that there turned out to be no vaccine - and this seems very unlikely - there are effective strategies available, and there are countries that have already put them into practice and are successfully suppressing the virus while opening up their societies

From what I can make out you are proposing to lift all restrictions, with no suppression strategy

This is a right-wing American anarcho-capitalist talking point pushed by the likes of the Koch Brother(s)

The people proposing this are some of the worst people in the world

You are the person with all the questions to answer here because you are the person proposing that the population of Ireland and the population of the world becomes the subject of a grotesque experiment
Anarcho-capitalist talking point made me LOL (then google to try to figure out what it is).

I think you are giving people too much credit calling out fascists on multiple threads.  In this example people want to work to be able to pay their mortgage they don't have Mein Kampf in the drawer beside the bed.  I'd be interested in the make up of the jobs of the people on this board, what percentage have an income linked to the public sector and therefore have their income protected verses those that rely on a somewhat functioning economy and how strongly that influences their views.
I haven't accused any other posters of being a fascist on this thread, I think I've mentioned it once in relation to the Trump regime and in that context it's certianly accurate

Wobbler has certainly been very big on using the word on this thread however because he's running very low on arguments

Fulvio is getting in the act now too for the same reason

Quite instructive

Funny you mention people's jobs because a let it rip strategy is a surefire way to destroy jobs

I couldn't think of anything more entitled or elitist or classist than a let it rip strategy

Those posters who are pushing it should understand they are pushing an anti-worker, pro-big business right-wing American think tank narrative which would kill a hell of a lot of people

If that's what they believe, fine, they're entitled to do that, but at least be honest about whose interests it would be serving

Who has mentioned letting it rip.

You're very good at twisting things people have said. Nobody has mentioned let it rip here.

We need to get on with our lives though, there are measures such as mask wearing, social distancing, limited capacities, hand hygiene and other measures which can help us get on with things.

Lockdowns have far more damaging widespread consequences on society than Covid. The chances of Covid killing fit and healthy people or causing long terms effects remains extremely remote. The chances of lockdown doing similar carry far more risk.
But what is deliberately letting the virus continue to increase in spread in perpetuity if not "let it rip"

What you are writing here is meaningless sloganeering

I realise that you're missing the pub but you need a higher level of argument than barstool sloganeering

Let it rip is barstool sloganeering and that's what you're shouting about when nobody here has mentioned it other than you. You're contradicting itself.

It's not deliberately letting the virus continue, it's doing what is best for society. We take preventive measures in our daily lives, the hospitality sector cannot function as before, the entertainment sector cannot functions as before, the arts sector cannot function as before, workplaces cannot function as before, tourism cannot function as before. We made changes to all those everyday aspects of life.

We have measures in place such as hand hygiene, mask wearing, social distancing, limited capacities and gatherings to stop the spread, that is a suppression strategy.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:34:55 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:09:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2020, 11:20:20 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Would anyone advocating no lockdowns etc be prepared to stand in person and make the call in a hospital ward over who gets the ventilator and who doesn't when it hits that point ?
Well said.
Do we perform the life saving heart surgery on Patient A or do we leave the Covid comatose Patient B in the ICU bed.

Doctors make decisions all the time about these things, it's due to an underfunded health system - so stop with the drama.
They don't actually
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:37:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:34:55 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:09:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2020, 11:20:20 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Would anyone advocating no lockdowns etc be prepared to stand in person and make the call in a hospital ward over who gets the ventilator and who doesn't when it hits that point ?
Well said.
Do we perform the life saving heart surgery on Patient A or do we leave the Covid comatose Patient B in the ICU bed.

Doctors make decisions all the time about these things, it's due to an underfunded health system - so stop with the drama.
They don't actually

They do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:33:00 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:26:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:17:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:14:53 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 22, 2020, 11:37:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
But this isn't the case

Even in the hypothetical event that there turned out to be no vaccine - and this seems very unlikely - there are effective strategies available, and there are countries that have already put them into practice and are successfully suppressing the virus while opening up their societies

From what I can make out you are proposing to lift all restrictions, with no suppression strategy

This is a right-wing American anarcho-capitalist talking point pushed by the likes of the Koch Brother(s)

The people proposing this are some of the worst people in the world

You are the person with all the questions to answer here because you are the person proposing that the population of Ireland and the population of the world becomes the subject of a grotesque experiment
Anarcho-capitalist talking point made me LOL (then google to try to figure out what it is).

I think you are giving people too much credit calling out fascists on multiple threads.  In this example people want to work to be able to pay their mortgage they don't have Mein Kampf in the drawer beside the bed.  I'd be interested in the make up of the jobs of the people on this board, what percentage have an income linked to the public sector and therefore have their income protected verses those that rely on a somewhat functioning economy and how strongly that influences their views.
I haven't accused any other posters of being a fascist on this thread, I think I've mentioned it once in relation to the Trump regime and in that context it's certianly accurate

Wobbler has certainly been very big on using the word on this thread however because he's running very low on arguments

Fulvio is getting in the act now too for the same reason

Quite instructive

Funny you mention people's jobs because a let it rip strategy is a surefire way to destroy jobs

I couldn't think of anything more entitled or elitist or classist than a let it rip strategy

Those posters who are pushing it should understand they are pushing an anti-worker, pro-big business right-wing American think tank narrative which would kill a hell of a lot of people

If that's what they believe, fine, they're entitled to do that, but at least be honest about whose interests it would be serving

Who is letting it rip - you are obsessed, letting folk live can be done in unison with protecting the most vulnerable, what's your profession?
Not without an effective suppression strategy - and you are not proposing an effective suppression strategy

Thanks for the childish rhetoric which doesn't advance your argument one iota

I'm under no obligation whatsoever to tell you what I do

Why on earth should I be?

Because if you in a cushy civil servants role sitting at home on full pay as you have no computer, it makes a hell of a difference, no wonder you can post so much drivel, I will ask one more time post where I said let it rip!
Yet Angelo has posted a lot more than I have on this thread over the last while but you aren't asking him what he does because he agrees with you

Very strange

I couldn't care less what Angelo does though because I'm interested in the reality of the situation, not what people work at or do not work at

Your whole argument has been based on a let it rip strategy, you have said nothing to dispel that and when offered the chance to dispel it and put forward a strategy, you point blank refuse

Therefore it's perfectly reasonable to draw conclusions that you do indeed favour a let it rip scenario

In short, there's no reason at all to take you in any way seriously

Thank you, you have confirmed one of two things, you are a complete wind up merchant or you haven't the brains you were born with maybe both - I take it you couldn't find a let it rip quote from me.  Do the unions make you send the laptops back if you can't get them going straight away so you can continue to get full pay for doing nothing, or are you so irrelevant they didn't even try to get you one?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:38:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:34:55 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:09:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2020, 11:20:20 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Would anyone advocating no lockdowns etc be prepared to stand in person and make the call in a hospital ward over who gets the ventilator and who doesn't when it hits that point ?
Well said.
Do we perform the life saving heart surgery on Patient A or do we leave the Covid comatose Patient B in the ICU bed.

Doctors make decisions all the time about these things, it's due to an underfunded health system - so stop with the drama.
They don't actually

Of course they do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:58:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
But wobbler, maybe he just is an idiot?

Not just because he has different views. You have different views on this to many of us and you're not an idiot. You can debate reasonably. But it's obvious the difference between your posts and his posts.
Have you seen him on other threads?

I do take it personally. I think many of the deniers just don't know anyone who's been hit with it. But that's no excuse, as many of the people who take it seriously don't know anyone hit badly by it. But I have a relation who was killed by it, another in her 30s who has lung scarring because of it and 6 months later still has serious respiratory issues when doing any kind of exercise, and finally someone who has developed Parkinson's post Covid. So I take it personally.

The other muppet doesn't even know how a discussion board works. 40 people disagree with him, so 40 replies are needed. Jeez Louise. 🙄

This is the type of snide piece of shit response you get here.

We can all play victim bingo. There are plenty of victims of lockdown, plenty of people who have been harmed mentally, socially, physically - vulnerable people. But hey, f**k them right.

What makes the people you know so much more important than all those victims?

I had a 77 year old uncle pass away 4 weeks ago. He had cancer in remission, he had been failing badly for a number of months but wasn't seen to. About 6 weeks ago he was admitted to hospital and was told he had weeks to live. He's another victim of lockdown.

So spare me your f**king conceited arrogance.
Sorry to hear about your uncle

But are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

Because that's what you're strongly implying

He would have been diagnosed months ago had the whole health service not been consumed by Covid.

The way things have gone, unless you have Covid you are not priority, it does not matter the seriousness of graveness of your ailment - Covid takes precedent.

If Hound wants to take snide shots like that then maybe he should be prepared that ask people who have lost loved ones or suffered hardship as a result of actions made to curb Covid.
Answer the question

Are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:45:34 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:38:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:34:55 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:09:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2020, 11:20:20 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Would anyone advocating no lockdowns etc be prepared to stand in person and make the call in a hospital ward over who gets the ventilator and who doesn't when it hits that point ?
Well said.
Do we perform the life saving heart surgery on Patient A or do we leave the Covid comatose Patient B in the ICU bed.

Doctors make decisions all the time about these things, it's due to an underfunded health system - so stop with the drama.
They don't actually

Of course they do.

I suppose in a barstool universe they do

Or a real one if you had your way, given that you actually want ICUs to be swamped

Thankfully you have no say in health policy and we should all be thankful for that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:58:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
But wobbler, maybe he just is an idiot?

Not just because he has different views. You have different views on this to many of us and you're not an idiot. You can debate reasonably. But it's obvious the difference between your posts and his posts.
Have you seen him on other threads?

I do take it personally. I think many of the deniers just don't know anyone who's been hit with it. But that's no excuse, as many of the people who take it seriously don't know anyone hit badly by it. But I have a relation who was killed by it, another in her 30s who has lung scarring because of it and 6 months later still has serious respiratory issues when doing any kind of exercise, and finally someone who has developed Parkinson's post Covid. So I take it personally.

The other muppet doesn't even know how a discussion board works. 40 people disagree with him, so 40 replies are needed. Jeez Louise. 🙄

This is the type of snide piece of shit response you get here.

We can all play victim bingo. There are plenty of victims of lockdown, plenty of people who have been harmed mentally, socially, physically - vulnerable people. But hey, f**k them right.

What makes the people you know so much more important than all those victims?

I had a 77 year old uncle pass away 4 weeks ago. He had cancer in remission, he had been failing badly for a number of months but wasn't seen to. About 6 weeks ago he was admitted to hospital and was told he had weeks to live. He's another victim of lockdown.

So spare me your f**king conceited arrogance.
Sorry to hear about your uncle

But are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

Because that's what you're strongly implying

He would have been diagnosed months ago had the whole health service not been consumed by Covid.

The way things have gone, unless you have Covid you are not priority, it does not matter the seriousness of graveness of your ailment - Covid takes precedent.

If Hound wants to take snide shots like that then maybe he should be prepared that ask people who have lost loved ones or suffered hardship as a result of actions made to curb Covid.
Answer the question

Are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

I'm saying people like my uncle were cast aside by the health service because their ailments were not Covid related.

You have a few questions of your own that you have point blank refused to answer, unlike you I'm not a coward who runs away from them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:48:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:44:46 PM

Answer the question

Are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

You really are the dregs of society, and you have the audacity to call anyone a sociopath.  Lockdown stopped hospital admissions, folk are dying left, right and centre because of this, what part of that can't you grasp - or does it not fall into your narrative!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:48:45 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:33:00 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:26:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:17:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:14:53 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 22, 2020, 11:37:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
But this isn't the case

Even in the hypothetical event that there turned out to be no vaccine - and this seems very unlikely - there are effective strategies available, and there are countries that have already put them into practice and are successfully suppressing the virus while opening up their societies

From what I can make out you are proposing to lift all restrictions, with no suppression strategy

This is a right-wing American anarcho-capitalist talking point pushed by the likes of the Koch Brother(s)

The people proposing this are some of the worst people in the world

You are the person with all the questions to answer here because you are the person proposing that the population of Ireland and the population of the world becomes the subject of a grotesque experiment
Anarcho-capitalist talking point made me LOL (then google to try to figure out what it is).

I think you are giving people too much credit calling out fascists on multiple threads.  In this example people want to work to be able to pay their mortgage they don't have Mein Kampf in the drawer beside the bed.  I'd be interested in the make up of the jobs of the people on this board, what percentage have an income linked to the public sector and therefore have their income protected verses those that rely on a somewhat functioning economy and how strongly that influences their views.
I haven't accused any other posters of being a fascist on this thread, I think I've mentioned it once in relation to the Trump regime and in that context it's certianly accurate

Wobbler has certainly been very big on using the word on this thread however because he's running very low on arguments

Fulvio is getting in the act now too for the same reason

Quite instructive

Funny you mention people's jobs because a let it rip strategy is a surefire way to destroy jobs

I couldn't think of anything more entitled or elitist or classist than a let it rip strategy

Those posters who are pushing it should understand they are pushing an anti-worker, pro-big business right-wing American think tank narrative which would kill a hell of a lot of people

If that's what they believe, fine, they're entitled to do that, but at least be honest about whose interests it would be serving

Who is letting it rip - you are obsessed, letting folk live can be done in unison with protecting the most vulnerable, what's your profession?
Not without an effective suppression strategy - and you are not proposing an effective suppression strategy

Thanks for the childish rhetoric which doesn't advance your argument one iota

I'm under no obligation whatsoever to tell you what I do

Why on earth should I be?

Because if you in a cushy civil servants role sitting at home on full pay as you have no computer, it makes a hell of a difference, no wonder you can post so much drivel, I will ask one more time post where I said let it rip!
Yet Angelo has posted a lot more than I have on this thread over the last while but you aren't asking him what he does because he agrees with you

Very strange

I couldn't care less what Angelo does though because I'm interested in the reality of the situation, not what people work at or do not work at

Your whole argument has been based on a let it rip strategy, you have said nothing to dispel that and when offered the chance to dispel it and put forward a strategy, you point blank refuse

Therefore it's perfectly reasonable to draw conclusions that you do indeed favour a let it rip scenario

In short, there's no reason at all to take you in any way seriously

Thank you, you have confirmed one of two things, you are a complete wind up merchant or you haven't the brains you were born with maybe both - I take it you couldn't find a let it rip quote from me.  Do the unions make you send the laptops back if you can't get them going straight away so you can continue to get full pay for doing nothing, or are you so irrelevant they didn't even try to get you one?
Right, I don't want ICUs to be swamped and you do - and apparently I'm the wind up merchant  ;D

Bye now



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:49:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:45:34 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:38:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:34:55 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:09:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2020, 11:20:20 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Would anyone advocating no lockdowns etc be prepared to stand in person and make the call in a hospital ward over who gets the ventilator and who doesn't when it hits that point ?
Well said.
Do we perform the life saving heart surgery on Patient A or do we leave the Covid comatose Patient B in the ICU bed.

Doctors make decisions all the time about these things, it's due to an underfunded health system - so stop with the drama.
They don't actually

Of course they do.

I suppose in a barstool universe they do

Or a real one if you had your way, given that you actually want ICUs to be swamped

Thankfully you have no say in health policy and we should all be thankful for that

There you are, misrepresenting the words of people.

I suppose we can agree that you want women's shelters and mental health facilities swamped with your outlook.

This people, is the type of  hysteric reaction you get when you try to discuss the negative impacts of lockdowns.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 22, 2020, 12:49:44 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 22, 2020, 11:44:56 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/YkNPn0d/IMG-20201021-WA0023.jpg)

Are we ready to talk about mask ineffectiveness (when you don't bother to do the rest) yet?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:50:37 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:45:34 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:38:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:34:55 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:09:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2020, 11:20:20 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Would anyone advocating no lockdowns etc be prepared to stand in person and make the call in a hospital ward over who gets the ventilator and who doesn't when it hits that point ?
Well said.
Do we perform the life saving heart surgery on Patient A or do we leave the Covid comatose Patient B in the ICU bed.

Doctors make decisions all the time about these things, it's due to an underfunded health system - so stop with the drama.
They don't actually

Of course they do.

I suppose in a barstool universe they do

Or a real one if you had your way, given that you actually want ICUs to be swamped

Thankfully you have no say in health policy and we should all be thankful for that

Any quotes for that - or just more made up stuff from your wrapped mind, I note the masses on here backing your narrative!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:51:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:58:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
But wobbler, maybe he just is an idiot?

Not just because he has different views. You have different views on this to many of us and you're not an idiot. You can debate reasonably. But it's obvious the difference between your posts and his posts.
Have you seen him on other threads?

I do take it personally. I think many of the deniers just don't know anyone who's been hit with it. But that's no excuse, as many of the people who take it seriously don't know anyone hit badly by it. But I have a relation who was killed by it, another in her 30s who has lung scarring because of it and 6 months later still has serious respiratory issues when doing any kind of exercise, and finally someone who has developed Parkinson's post Covid. So I take it personally.

The other muppet doesn't even know how a discussion board works. 40 people disagree with him, so 40 replies are needed. Jeez Louise. 🙄

This is the type of snide piece of shit response you get here.

We can all play victim bingo. There are plenty of victims of lockdown, plenty of people who have been harmed mentally, socially, physically - vulnerable people. But hey, f**k them right.

What makes the people you know so much more important than all those victims?

I had a 77 year old uncle pass away 4 weeks ago. He had cancer in remission, he had been failing badly for a number of months but wasn't seen to. About 6 weeks ago he was admitted to hospital and was told he had weeks to live. He's another victim of lockdown.

So spare me your f**king conceited arrogance.
Sorry to hear about your uncle

But are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

Because that's what you're strongly implying

He would have been diagnosed months ago had the whole health service not been consumed by Covid.

The way things have gone, unless you have Covid you are not priority, it does not matter the seriousness of graveness of your ailment - Covid takes precedent.

If Hound wants to take snide shots like that then maybe he should be prepared that ask people who have lost loved ones or suffered hardship as a result of actions made to curb Covid.
Answer the question

Are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

I'm saying people like my uncle were cast aside by the health service because their ailments were not Covid related.

You have a few questions of your own that you have point blank refused to answer, unlike you I'm not a coward who runs away from them.

You haven't answered the question

The clear implication of your argument is that cancer treatment would be superior if the virus spread was allowed to increase

But this is obviously totally false

It seems your whole stance is based on magical thinking - let's pretend there's not a pandemic

When you're stumped, you just resort to insults

It's very telling
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on October 22, 2020, 12:52:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:48:45 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:33:00 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:26:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:17:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:14:53 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 22, 2020, 11:37:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
But this isn't the case

Even in the hypothetical event that there turned out to be no vaccine - and this seems very unlikely - there are effective strategies available, and there are countries that have already put them into practice and are successfully suppressing the virus while opening up their societies

From what I can make out you are proposing to lift all restrictions, with no suppression strategy

This is a right-wing American anarcho-capitalist talking point pushed by the likes of the Koch Brother(s)

The people proposing this are some of the worst people in the world

You are the person with all the questions to answer here because you are the person proposing that the population of Ireland and the population of the world becomes the subject of a grotesque experiment
Anarcho-capitalist talking point made me LOL (then google to try to figure out what it is).

I think you are giving people too much credit calling out fascists on multiple threads.  In this example people want to work to be able to pay their mortgage they don't have Mein Kampf in the drawer beside the bed.  I'd be interested in the make up of the jobs of the people on this board, what percentage have an income linked to the public sector and therefore have their income protected verses those that rely on a somewhat functioning economy and how strongly that influences their views.
I haven't accused any other posters of being a fascist on this thread, I think I've mentioned it once in relation to the Trump regime and in that context it's certianly accurate

Wobbler has certainly been very big on using the word on this thread however because he's running very low on arguments

Fulvio is getting in the act now too for the same reason

Quite instructive

Funny you mention people's jobs because a let it rip strategy is a surefire way to destroy jobs

I couldn't think of anything more entitled or elitist or classist than a let it rip strategy

Those posters who are pushing it should understand they are pushing an anti-worker, pro-big business right-wing American think tank narrative which would kill a hell of a lot of people

If that's what they believe, fine, they're entitled to do that, but at least be honest about whose interests it would be serving

Who is letting it rip - you are obsessed, letting folk live can be done in unison with protecting the most vulnerable, what's your profession?
Not without an effective suppression strategy - and you are not proposing an effective suppression strategy

Thanks for the childish rhetoric which doesn't advance your argument one iota

I'm under no obligation whatsoever to tell you what I do

Why on earth should I be?

Because if you in a cushy civil servants role sitting at home on full pay as you have no computer, it makes a hell of a difference, no wonder you can post so much drivel, I will ask one more time post where I said let it rip!
Yet Angelo has posted a lot more than I have on this thread over the last while but you aren't asking him what he does because he agrees with you

Very strange

I couldn't care less what Angelo does though because I'm interested in the reality of the situation, not what people work at or do not work at

Your whole argument has been based on a let it rip strategy, you have said nothing to dispel that and when offered the chance to dispel it and put forward a strategy, you point blank refuse

Therefore it's perfectly reasonable to draw conclusions that you do indeed favour a let it rip scenario

In short, there's no reason at all to take you in any way seriously

Thank you, you have confirmed one of two things, you are a complete wind up merchant or you haven't the brains you were born with maybe both - I take it you couldn't find a let it rip quote from me.  Do the unions make you send the laptops back if you can't get them going straight away so you can continue to get full pay for doing nothing, or are you so irrelevant they didn't even try to get you one?
Right, I don't want ICUs to be swamped and you do - and apparently I'm the wind up merchant  ;D

Bye now

Great to see this pr*ck get his arse handed to him.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:52:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:48:45 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:33:00 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:26:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:17:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:14:53 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 22, 2020, 11:37:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
But this isn't the case

Even in the hypothetical event that there turned out to be no vaccine - and this seems very unlikely - there are effective strategies available, and there are countries that have already put them into practice and are successfully suppressing the virus while opening up their societies

From what I can make out you are proposing to lift all restrictions, with no suppression strategy

This is a right-wing American anarcho-capitalist talking point pushed by the likes of the Koch Brother(s)

The people proposing this are some of the worst people in the world

You are the person with all the questions to answer here because you are the person proposing that the population of Ireland and the population of the world becomes the subject of a grotesque experiment
Anarcho-capitalist talking point made me LOL (then google to try to figure out what it is).

I think you are giving people too much credit calling out fascists on multiple threads.  In this example people want to work to be able to pay their mortgage they don't have Mein Kampf in the drawer beside the bed.  I'd be interested in the make up of the jobs of the people on this board, what percentage have an income linked to the public sector and therefore have their income protected verses those that rely on a somewhat functioning economy and how strongly that influences their views.
I haven't accused any other posters of being a fascist on this thread, I think I've mentioned it once in relation to the Trump regime and in that context it's certianly accurate

Wobbler has certainly been very big on using the word on this thread however because he's running very low on arguments

Fulvio is getting in the act now too for the same reason

Quite instructive

Funny you mention people's jobs because a let it rip strategy is a surefire way to destroy jobs

I couldn't think of anything more entitled or elitist or classist than a let it rip strategy

Those posters who are pushing it should understand they are pushing an anti-worker, pro-big business right-wing American think tank narrative which would kill a hell of a lot of people

If that's what they believe, fine, they're entitled to do that, but at least be honest about whose interests it would be serving

Who is letting it rip - you are obsessed, letting folk live can be done in unison with protecting the most vulnerable, what's your profession?
Not without an effective suppression strategy - and you are not proposing an effective suppression strategy

Thanks for the childish rhetoric which doesn't advance your argument one iota

I'm under no obligation whatsoever to tell you what I do

Why on earth should I be?

Because if you in a cushy civil servants role sitting at home on full pay as you have no computer, it makes a hell of a difference, no wonder you can post so much drivel, I will ask one more time post where I said let it rip!
Yet Angelo has posted a lot more than I have on this thread over the last while but you aren't asking him what he does because he agrees with you

Very strange

I couldn't care less what Angelo does though because I'm interested in the reality of the situation, not what people work at or do not work at

Your whole argument has been based on a let it rip strategy, you have said nothing to dispel that and when offered the chance to dispel it and put forward a strategy, you point blank refuse

Therefore it's perfectly reasonable to draw conclusions that you do indeed favour a let it rip scenario

In short, there's no reason at all to take you in any way seriously

Thank you, you have confirmed one of two things, you are a complete wind up merchant or you haven't the brains you were born with maybe both - I take it you couldn't find a let it rip quote from me.  Do the unions make you send the laptops back if you can't get them going straight away so you can continue to get full pay for doing nothing, or are you so irrelevant they didn't even try to get you one?
Right, I don't want ICUs to be swamped and you do - and apparently I'm the wind up merchant  ;D

Bye now

I would keep the computer next time and tell the unions you want to do a bit of work - might clear your head a bit - you have serious issues lad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 12:52:27 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 22, 2020, 12:49:44 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 22, 2020, 11:44:56 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/YkNPn0d/IMG-20201021-WA0023.jpg)

Are we ready to talk about mask ineffectiveness (when you don't bother to do the rest) yet?

I think Angelo Seaney and Sid should head to Cookstown and sort this out! Preferably with no masks on and hang around indoors
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:53:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:49:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:45:34 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:38:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:34:55 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:09:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2020, 11:20:20 AM
Quote from: maddog on October 22, 2020, 11:02:33 AM
Would anyone advocating no lockdowns etc be prepared to stand in person and make the call in a hospital ward over who gets the ventilator and who doesn't when it hits that point ?
Well said.
Do we perform the life saving heart surgery on Patient A or do we leave the Covid comatose Patient B in the ICU bed.

Doctors make decisions all the time about these things, it's due to an underfunded health system - so stop with the drama.
They don't actually

Of course they do.

I suppose in a barstool universe they do

Or a real one if you had your way, given that you actually want ICUs to be swamped

Thankfully you have no say in health policy and we should all be thankful for that

There you are, misrepresenting the words of people.

I suppose we can agree that you want women's shelters and mental health facilities swamped with your outlook.

This people, is the type of  hysteric reaction you get when you try to discuss the negative impacts of lockdowns.

The projection is just dripping off this one

Your whole posting output has now descended into attempted bullying

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:54:43 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:52:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:48:45 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:33:00 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:26:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 12:17:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:14:53 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on October 22, 2020, 11:37:58 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 10:17:13 AM
But this isn't the case

Even in the hypothetical event that there turned out to be no vaccine - and this seems very unlikely - there are effective strategies available, and there are countries that have already put them into practice and are successfully suppressing the virus while opening up their societies

From what I can make out you are proposing to lift all restrictions, with no suppression strategy

This is a right-wing American anarcho-capitalist talking point pushed by the likes of the Koch Brother(s)

The people proposing this are some of the worst people in the world

You are the person with all the questions to answer here because you are the person proposing that the population of Ireland and the population of the world becomes the subject of a grotesque experiment
Anarcho-capitalist talking point made me LOL (then google to try to figure out what it is).

I think you are giving people too much credit calling out fascists on multiple threads.  In this example people want to work to be able to pay their mortgage they don't have Mein Kampf in the drawer beside the bed.  I'd be interested in the make up of the jobs of the people on this board, what percentage have an income linked to the public sector and therefore have their income protected verses those that rely on a somewhat functioning economy and how strongly that influences their views.
I haven't accused any other posters of being a fascist on this thread, I think I've mentioned it once in relation to the Trump regime and in that context it's certianly accurate

Wobbler has certainly been very big on using the word on this thread however because he's running very low on arguments

Fulvio is getting in the act now too for the same reason

Quite instructive

Funny you mention people's jobs because a let it rip strategy is a surefire way to destroy jobs

I couldn't think of anything more entitled or elitist or classist than a let it rip strategy

Those posters who are pushing it should understand they are pushing an anti-worker, pro-big business right-wing American think tank narrative which would kill a hell of a lot of people

If that's what they believe, fine, they're entitled to do that, but at least be honest about whose interests it would be serving

Who is letting it rip - you are obsessed, letting folk live can be done in unison with protecting the most vulnerable, what's your profession?
Not without an effective suppression strategy - and you are not proposing an effective suppression strategy

Thanks for the childish rhetoric which doesn't advance your argument one iota

I'm under no obligation whatsoever to tell you what I do

Why on earth should I be?

Because if you in a cushy civil servants role sitting at home on full pay as you have no computer, it makes a hell of a difference, no wonder you can post so much drivel, I will ask one more time post where I said let it rip!
Yet Angelo has posted a lot more than I have on this thread over the last while but you aren't asking him what he does because he agrees with you

Very strange

I couldn't care less what Angelo does though because I'm interested in the reality of the situation, not what people work at or do not work at

Your whole argument has been based on a let it rip strategy, you have said nothing to dispel that and when offered the chance to dispel it and put forward a strategy, you point blank refuse

Therefore it's perfectly reasonable to draw conclusions that you do indeed favour a let it rip scenario

In short, there's no reason at all to take you in any way seriously

Thank you, you have confirmed one of two things, you are a complete wind up merchant or you haven't the brains you were born with maybe both - I take it you couldn't find a let it rip quote from me.  Do the unions make you send the laptops back if you can't get them going straight away so you can continue to get full pay for doing nothing, or are you so irrelevant they didn't even try to get you one?
Right, I don't want ICUs to be swamped and you do - and apparently I'm the wind up merchant  ;D

Bye now

I would keep the computer next time and tell the unions you want to do a bit of work - might clear your head a bit - you have serious issues lad.
What are these "serious issues" I have?

You just keep proving my point here

No substance to your posts at all, just insults
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:51:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:58:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
But wobbler, maybe he just is an idiot?

Not just because he has different views. You have different views on this to many of us and you're not an idiot. You can debate reasonably. But it's obvious the difference between your posts and his posts.
Have you seen him on other threads?

I do take it personally. I think many of the deniers just don't know anyone who's been hit with it. But that's no excuse, as many of the people who take it seriously don't know anyone hit badly by it. But I have a relation who was killed by it, another in her 30s who has lung scarring because of it and 6 months later still has serious respiratory issues when doing any kind of exercise, and finally someone who has developed Parkinson's post Covid. So I take it personally.

The other muppet doesn't even know how a discussion board works. 40 people disagree with him, so 40 replies are needed. Jeez Louise. 🙄

This is the type of snide piece of shit response you get here.

We can all play victim bingo. There are plenty of victims of lockdown, plenty of people who have been harmed mentally, socially, physically - vulnerable people. But hey, f**k them right.

What makes the people you know so much more important than all those victims?

I had a 77 year old uncle pass away 4 weeks ago. He had cancer in remission, he had been failing badly for a number of months but wasn't seen to. About 6 weeks ago he was admitted to hospital and was told he had weeks to live. He's another victim of lockdown.

So spare me your f**king conceited arrogance.
Sorry to hear about your uncle

But are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

Because that's what you're strongly implying

He would have been diagnosed months ago had the whole health service not been consumed by Covid.

The way things have gone, unless you have Covid you are not priority, it does not matter the seriousness of graveness of your ailment - Covid takes precedent.

If Hound wants to take snide shots like that then maybe he should be prepared that ask people who have lost loved ones or suffered hardship as a result of actions made to curb Covid.
Answer the question

Are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

I'm saying people like my uncle were cast aside by the health service because their ailments were not Covid related.

You have a few questions of your own that you have point blank refused to answer, unlike you I'm not a coward who runs away from them.

You haven't answered the question

The clear implication of your argument is that cancer treatment would be superior if the virus spread was allowed to increase

But this is obviously totally false

It seems your whole stance is based on magical thinking - let's pretend there's not a pandemic

When you're stumped, you just resort to insults

It's very telling

I've addressed the question.

My uncle did not get the care he should have, he was cast aside when he was in grave health situation because his ailment was not Covid related.

He should have been diagnosed and treated months ago, instead he was only admitted to hospital when his health hit a grave situation and was told at that points he had weeks to live, he was let home with a morphine drip to die.

He was a consequence of the strategy to made Covid front, right and centre. You asked a loaded question I addressed it, a loaded question that relates personally to me and the situation of my family. I brought it up so I am not going to get upset about this avenue.

Now I've asked you plenty of important questions on multiples occasions and you have refused to answer them, refused to address them, completely ignored them. That says a lot about your cowardice.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 12:57:37 PM
I'm glad we are nearly off the seasonal flu issues and fully focused on the domestic abuse..

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 12:59:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:51:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:58:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
But wobbler, maybe he just is an idiot?

Not just because he has different views. You have different views on this to many of us and you're not an idiot. You can debate reasonably. But it's obvious the difference between your posts and his posts.
Have you seen him on other threads?

I do take it personally. I think many of the deniers just don't know anyone who's been hit with it. But that's no excuse, as many of the people who take it seriously don't know anyone hit badly by it. But I have a relation who was killed by it, another in her 30s who has lung scarring because of it and 6 months later still has serious respiratory issues when doing any kind of exercise, and finally someone who has developed Parkinson's post Covid. So I take it personally.

The other muppet doesn't even know how a discussion board works. 40 people disagree with him, so 40 replies are needed. Jeez Louise. 🙄

This is the type of snide piece of shit response you get here.

We can all play victim bingo. There are plenty of victims of lockdown, plenty of people who have been harmed mentally, socially, physically - vulnerable people. But hey, f**k them right.

What makes the people you know so much more important than all those victims?

I had a 77 year old uncle pass away 4 weeks ago. He had cancer in remission, he had been failing badly for a number of months but wasn't seen to. About 6 weeks ago he was admitted to hospital and was told he had weeks to live. He's another victim of lockdown.

So spare me your f**king conceited arrogance.
Sorry to hear about your uncle

But are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

Because that's what you're strongly implying

He would have been diagnosed months ago had the whole health service not been consumed by Covid.

The way things have gone, unless you have Covid you are not priority, it does not matter the seriousness of graveness of your ailment - Covid takes precedent.

If Hound wants to take snide shots like that then maybe he should be prepared that ask people who have lost loved ones or suffered hardship as a result of actions made to curb Covid.
Answer the question

Are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

I'm saying people like my uncle were cast aside by the health service because their ailments were not Covid related.

You have a few questions of your own that you have point blank refused to answer, unlike you I'm not a coward who runs away from them.

You haven't answered the question

The clear implication of your argument is that cancer treatment would be superior if the virus spread was allowed to increase

But this is obviously totally false

It seems your whole stance is based on magical thinking - let's pretend there's not a pandemic

When you're stumped, you just resort to insults

It's very telling

I've addressed the question.

My uncle did not get the care he should have, he was cast aside when he was in grave health situation because his ailment was not Covid related.

He should have been diagnosed and treated months ago, instead he was only admitted to hospital when his health hit a grave situation and was told at that points he had weeks to live, he was let home with a morphine drip to die.

He was a consequence of the strategy to made Covid front, right and centre. You asked a loaded question I addressed it, a loaded question that relates personally to me and the situation of my family. I brought it up so I am not going to get upset about this avenue.

Now I've asked you plenty of important questions on multiples occasions and you have refused to answer them, refused to address them, completely ignored them. That says a lot about your cowardice.

Careful Angelo, Seaney will be waying in with the 'weaponizing your uncle, how disgusting is that?) if he doesnt then he's full of shit!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:59:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 12:57:37 PM
I'm glad we are nearly off the seasonal flu issues and fully focused on the domestic abuse..

That's because in all your sanctimony you don't care about them.

Your snide contributions really enrich this thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 01:00:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:59:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 12:57:37 PM
I'm glad we are nearly off the seasonal flu issues and fully focused on the domestic abuse..

That's because in all your sanctimony you don't care about them.

Your snide contributions really enrich this thread.

Oh the irony !!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:01:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 01:00:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:59:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 12:57:37 PM
I'm glad we are nearly off the seasonal flu issues and fully focused on the domestic abuse..

That's because in all your sanctimony you don't care about them.

Your snide contributions really enrich this thread.

Oh the irony !!

Irony is clearly lost on you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:03:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:51:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:58:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
But wobbler, maybe he just is an idiot?

Not just because he has different views. You have different views on this to many of us and you're not an idiot. You can debate reasonably. But it's obvious the difference between your posts and his posts.
Have you seen him on other threads?

I do take it personally. I think many of the deniers just don't know anyone who's been hit with it. But that's no excuse, as many of the people who take it seriously don't know anyone hit badly by it. But I have a relation who was killed by it, another in her 30s who has lung scarring because of it and 6 months later still has serious respiratory issues when doing any kind of exercise, and finally someone who has developed Parkinson's post Covid. So I take it personally.

The other muppet doesn't even know how a discussion board works. 40 people disagree with him, so 40 replies are needed. Jeez Louise. 🙄

This is the type of snide piece of shit response you get here.

We can all play victim bingo. There are plenty of victims of lockdown, plenty of people who have been harmed mentally, socially, physically - vulnerable people. But hey, f**k them right.

What makes the people you know so much more important than all those victims?

I had a 77 year old uncle pass away 4 weeks ago. He had cancer in remission, he had been failing badly for a number of months but wasn't seen to. About 6 weeks ago he was admitted to hospital and was told he had weeks to live. He's another victim of lockdown.

So spare me your f**king conceited arrogance.
Sorry to hear about your uncle

But are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

Because that's what you're strongly implying

He would have been diagnosed months ago had the whole health service not been consumed by Covid.

The way things have gone, unless you have Covid you are not priority, it does not matter the seriousness of graveness of your ailment - Covid takes precedent.

If Hound wants to take snide shots like that then maybe he should be prepared that ask people who have lost loved ones or suffered hardship as a result of actions made to curb Covid.
Answer the question

Are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

I'm saying people like my uncle were cast aside by the health service because their ailments were not Covid related.

You have a few questions of your own that you have point blank refused to answer, unlike you I'm not a coward who runs away from them.

You haven't answered the question

The clear implication of your argument is that cancer treatment would be superior if the virus spread was allowed to increase

But this is obviously totally false

It seems your whole stance is based on magical thinking - let's pretend there's not a pandemic

When you're stumped, you just resort to insults

It's very telling

I've addressed the question.

My uncle did not get the care he should have, he was cast aside when he was in grave health situation because his ailment was not Covid related.

He should have been diagnosed and treated months ago, instead he was only admitted to hospital when his health hit a grave situation and was told at that points he had weeks to live, he was let home with a morphine drip to die.

He was a consequence of the strategy to made Covid front, right and centre. You asked a loaded question I addressed it, a loaded question that relates personally to me and the situation of my family. I brought it up so I am not going to get upset about this avenue.

Now I've asked you plenty of important questions on multiples occasions and you have refused to answer them, refused to address them, completely ignored them. That says a lot about your cowardice.
You made the implication that cancer patients would get better care if there was more Covid around rather than less

But that's wrong, it's obviously wrong, it's completely wrong

You still haven't addressed this

You're also speculating that your uncle's care was inadequate

We'd need to have the case file examined by an expert to make a determination on that

I'm not here to be a spokesperson for the NI NHS though



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on October 22, 2020, 01:07:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:53:24 PM

There you are, misrepresenting the words of people.

I suppose we can agree that you want women's shelters and mental health facilities swamped with your outlook.

This people, is the type of  hysteric reaction you get when you try to discuss the negative impacts of lockdowns.


The projection is just dripping off this one

Your whole posting output has now descended into attempted bullying

The ultimate irony.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 22, 2020, 01:10:05 PM
Time to lock this thread but I'm sure some of the "You are ignoring this poster" will then start another to spread their manure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:10:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:03:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:51:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:58:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
But wobbler, maybe he just is an idiot?

Not just because he has different views. You have different views on this to many of us and you're not an idiot. You can debate reasonably. But it's obvious the difference between your posts and his posts.
Have you seen him on other threads?

I do take it personally. I think many of the deniers just don't know anyone who's been hit with it. But that's no excuse, as many of the people who take it seriously don't know anyone hit badly by it. But I have a relation who was killed by it, another in her 30s who has lung scarring because of it and 6 months later still has serious respiratory issues when doing any kind of exercise, and finally someone who has developed Parkinson's post Covid. So I take it personally.

The other muppet doesn't even know how a discussion board works. 40 people disagree with him, so 40 replies are needed. Jeez Louise. 🙄

This is the type of snide piece of shit response you get here.

We can all play victim bingo. There are plenty of victims of lockdown, plenty of people who have been harmed mentally, socially, physically - vulnerable people. But hey, f**k them right.

What makes the people you know so much more important than all those victims?

I had a 77 year old uncle pass away 4 weeks ago. He had cancer in remission, he had been failing badly for a number of months but wasn't seen to. About 6 weeks ago he was admitted to hospital and was told he had weeks to live. He's another victim of lockdown.

So spare me your f**king conceited arrogance.
Sorry to hear about your uncle

But are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

Because that's what you're strongly implying

He would have been diagnosed months ago had the whole health service not been consumed by Covid.

The way things have gone, unless you have Covid you are not priority, it does not matter the seriousness of graveness of your ailment - Covid takes precedent.

If Hound wants to take snide shots like that then maybe he should be prepared that ask people who have lost loved ones or suffered hardship as a result of actions made to curb Covid.
Answer the question

Are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

I'm saying people like my uncle were cast aside by the health service because their ailments were not Covid related.

You have a few questions of your own that you have point blank refused to answer, unlike you I'm not a coward who runs away from them.

You haven't answered the question

The clear implication of your argument is that cancer treatment would be superior if the virus spread was allowed to increase

But this is obviously totally false

It seems your whole stance is based on magical thinking - let's pretend there's not a pandemic

When you're stumped, you just resort to insults

It's very telling

I've addressed the question.

My uncle did not get the care he should have, he was cast aside when he was in grave health situation because his ailment was not Covid related.

He should have been diagnosed and treated months ago, instead he was only admitted to hospital when his health hit a grave situation and was told at that points he had weeks to live, he was let home with a morphine drip to die.

He was a consequence of the strategy to made Covid front, right and centre. You asked a loaded question I addressed it, a loaded question that relates personally to me and the situation of my family. I brought it up so I am not going to get upset about this avenue.

Now I've asked you plenty of important questions on multiples occasions and you have refused to answer them, refused to address them, completely ignored them. That says a lot about your cowardice.
You made the implication that cancer patients would get better care if there was more Covid around rather than less

But that's wrong, it's obviously wrong, it's completely wrong

You still haven't addressed this

You're also speculating that your uncle's care was inadequate

We'd need to have the case file examined by an expert to make a determination on that

I'm not here to be a spokesperson for the NI NHS though

Once again, you can not deal with the truth.

The implication I made was that my uncle had serious need for medical attention but he was abandoned by the health system as Covid took priority. That is exactly and what I said and you can continue to try and go and manipulate the circumstances of his death and try and twist my words to say something I haven't but that says more about you.

What's wrong is that you are incapable of dealing with the truth, it's my fault for putting it out in the public domain but shame on you for trying to twist facts on the death of a relative of mine.

Like the coward you are you have still failed to address questions posed to you, one might say you are the real sociopath here.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:11:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2020, 01:10:05 PM
Time to lock this thread but I'm sure some of the "You are ignoring this poster" will then start another to spread their manure.

The time to lock any thread is usually when we have to endure your inane observations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 01:13:31 PM
(https://media.tenor.com/images/4c1f56a9dd0d1898fef180ee7103cfbc/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:13:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:10:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:03:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:51:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:58:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
But wobbler, maybe he just is an idiot?

Not just because he has different views. You have different views on this to many of us and you're not an idiot. You can debate reasonably. But it's obvious the difference between your posts and his posts.
Have you seen him on other threads?

I do take it personally. I think many of the deniers just don't know anyone who's been hit with it. But that's no excuse, as many of the people who take it seriously don't know anyone hit badly by it. But I have a relation who was killed by it, another in her 30s who has lung scarring because of it and 6 months later still has serious respiratory issues when doing any kind of exercise, and finally someone who has developed Parkinson's post Covid. So I take it personally.

The other muppet doesn't even know how a discussion board works. 40 people disagree with him, so 40 replies are needed. Jeez Louise. 🙄

This is the type of snide piece of shit response you get here.

We can all play victim bingo. There are plenty of victims of lockdown, plenty of people who have been harmed mentally, socially, physically - vulnerable people. But hey, f**k them right.

What makes the people you know so much more important than all those victims?

I had a 77 year old uncle pass away 4 weeks ago. He had cancer in remission, he had been failing badly for a number of months but wasn't seen to. About 6 weeks ago he was admitted to hospital and was told he had weeks to live. He's another victim of lockdown.

So spare me your f**king conceited arrogance.
Sorry to hear about your uncle

But are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

Because that's what you're strongly implying

He would have been diagnosed months ago had the whole health service not been consumed by Covid.

The way things have gone, unless you have Covid you are not priority, it does not matter the seriousness of graveness of your ailment - Covid takes precedent.

If Hound wants to take snide shots like that then maybe he should be prepared that ask people who have lost loved ones or suffered hardship as a result of actions made to curb Covid.
Answer the question

Are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

I'm saying people like my uncle were cast aside by the health service because their ailments were not Covid related.

You have a few questions of your own that you have point blank refused to answer, unlike you I'm not a coward who runs away from them.

You haven't answered the question

The clear implication of your argument is that cancer treatment would be superior if the virus spread was allowed to increase

But this is obviously totally false

It seems your whole stance is based on magical thinking - let's pretend there's not a pandemic

When you're stumped, you just resort to insults

It's very telling

I've addressed the question.

My uncle did not get the care he should have, he was cast aside when he was in grave health situation because his ailment was not Covid related.

He should have been diagnosed and treated months ago, instead he was only admitted to hospital when his health hit a grave situation and was told at that points he had weeks to live, he was let home with a morphine drip to die.

He was a consequence of the strategy to made Covid front, right and centre. You asked a loaded question I addressed it, a loaded question that relates personally to me and the situation of my family. I brought it up so I am not going to get upset about this avenue.

Now I've asked you plenty of important questions on multiples occasions and you have refused to answer them, refused to address them, completely ignored them. That says a lot about your cowardice.
You made the implication that cancer patients would get better care if there was more Covid around rather than less

But that's wrong, it's obviously wrong, it's completely wrong

You still haven't addressed this

You're also speculating that your uncle's care was inadequate

We'd need to have the case file examined by an expert to make a determination on that

I'm not here to be a spokesperson for the NI NHS though

Once again, you can not deal with the truth.

The implication I made was that my uncle had serious need for medical attention but he was abandoned by the health system as Covid took priority. That is exactly and what I said and you can continue to try and go and manipulate the circumstances of his death and try and twist my words to say something I haven't but that says more about you.

What's wrong is that you are incapable of dealing with the truth, it's my fault for putting it out in the public domain but shame on you for trying to twist facts on the death of a relative of mine.

Like the coward you are you have still failed to address questions posed to you, one might say you are the real sociopath here.

You still haven't answered the question

Are you saying your uncle would have got better treatment in a situation where there was more Covid?

You can bluster all you like with Jack Nicholson impressions and continue shrieking insults but it's still not an answer

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:18:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:13:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:10:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:03:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:51:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:58:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
But wobbler, maybe he just is an idiot?

Not just because he has different views. You have different views on this to many of us and you're not an idiot. You can debate reasonably. But it's obvious the difference between your posts and his posts.
Have you seen him on other threads?

I do take it personally. I think many of the deniers just don't know anyone who's been hit with it. But that's no excuse, as many of the people who take it seriously don't know anyone hit badly by it. But I have a relation who was killed by it, another in her 30s who has lung scarring because of it and 6 months later still has serious respiratory issues when doing any kind of exercise, and finally someone who has developed Parkinson's post Covid. So I take it personally.

The other muppet doesn't even know how a discussion board works. 40 people disagree with him, so 40 replies are needed. Jeez Louise. 🙄

This is the type of snide piece of shit response you get here.

We can all play victim bingo. There are plenty of victims of lockdown, plenty of people who have been harmed mentally, socially, physically - vulnerable people. But hey, f**k them right.

What makes the people you know so much more important than all those victims?

I had a 77 year old uncle pass away 4 weeks ago. He had cancer in remission, he had been failing badly for a number of months but wasn't seen to. About 6 weeks ago he was admitted to hospital and was told he had weeks to live. He's another victim of lockdown.

So spare me your f**king conceited arrogance.
Sorry to hear about your uncle

But are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

Because that's what you're strongly implying

He would have been diagnosed months ago had the whole health service not been consumed by Covid.

The way things have gone, unless you have Covid you are not priority, it does not matter the seriousness of graveness of your ailment - Covid takes precedent.

If Hound wants to take snide shots like that then maybe he should be prepared that ask people who have lost loved ones or suffered hardship as a result of actions made to curb Covid.
Answer the question

Are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

I'm saying people like my uncle were cast aside by the health service because their ailments were not Covid related.

You have a few questions of your own that you have point blank refused to answer, unlike you I'm not a coward who runs away from them.

You haven't answered the question

The clear implication of your argument is that cancer treatment would be superior if the virus spread was allowed to increase

But this is obviously totally false

It seems your whole stance is based on magical thinking - let's pretend there's not a pandemic

When you're stumped, you just resort to insults

It's very telling

I've addressed the question.

My uncle did not get the care he should have, he was cast aside when he was in grave health situation because his ailment was not Covid related.

He should have been diagnosed and treated months ago, instead he was only admitted to hospital when his health hit a grave situation and was told at that points he had weeks to live, he was let home with a morphine drip to die.

He was a consequence of the strategy to made Covid front, right and centre. You asked a loaded question I addressed it, a loaded question that relates personally to me and the situation of my family. I brought it up so I am not going to get upset about this avenue.

Now I've asked you plenty of important questions on multiples occasions and you have refused to answer them, refused to address them, completely ignored them. That says a lot about your cowardice.
You made the implication that cancer patients would get better care if there was more Covid around rather than less

But that's wrong, it's obviously wrong, it's completely wrong

You still haven't addressed this

You're also speculating that your uncle's care was inadequate

We'd need to have the case file examined by an expert to make a determination on that

I'm not here to be a spokesperson for the NI NHS though

Once again, you can not deal with the truth.

The implication I made was that my uncle had serious need for medical attention but he was abandoned by the health system as Covid took priority. That is exactly and what I said and you can continue to try and go and manipulate the circumstances of his death and try and twist my words to say something I haven't but that says more about you.

What's wrong is that you are incapable of dealing with the truth, it's my fault for putting it out in the public domain but shame on you for trying to twist facts on the death of a relative of mine.

Like the coward you are you have still failed to address questions posed to you, one might say you are the real sociopath here.

You still haven't answered the question

Are you saying your uncle would have got better treatment in a situation where there was more Covid?

You can bluster all you like with Jack Nicholson impressions and continue shrieking insults but it's still not an answer

I've addressed the question three times now.

Unlike you, I'm not a coward and and unlike you, I'm not a sociopath.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 01:19:04 PM
Everyone would have received better treatment had the NHS not abandoned cancer treatment and planned appointments to concentrate solely on covid which came no where close to overwhelming the NHS if you can't comprehend that, that is your own issue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:21:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:18:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:13:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:10:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:03:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:51:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:58:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
But wobbler, maybe he just is an idiot?

Not just because he has different views. You have different views on this to many of us and you're not an idiot. You can debate reasonably. But it's obvious the difference between your posts and his posts.
Have you seen him on other threads?

I do take it personally. I think many of the deniers just don't know anyone who's been hit with it. But that's no excuse, as many of the people who take it seriously don't know anyone hit badly by it. But I have a relation who was killed by it, another in her 30s who has lung scarring because of it and 6 months later still has serious respiratory issues when doing any kind of exercise, and finally someone who has developed Parkinson's post Covid. So I take it personally.

The other muppet doesn't even know how a discussion board works. 40 people disagree with him, so 40 replies are needed. Jeez Louise. 🙄

This is the type of snide piece of shit response you get here.

We can all play victim bingo. There are plenty of victims of lockdown, plenty of people who have been harmed mentally, socially, physically - vulnerable people. But hey, f**k them right.

What makes the people you know so much more important than all those victims?

I had a 77 year old uncle pass away 4 weeks ago. He had cancer in remission, he had been failing badly for a number of months but wasn't seen to. About 6 weeks ago he was admitted to hospital and was told he had weeks to live. He's another victim of lockdown.

So spare me your f**king conceited arrogance.
Sorry to hear about your uncle

But are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

Because that's what you're strongly implying

He would have been diagnosed months ago had the whole health service not been consumed by Covid.

The way things have gone, unless you have Covid you are not priority, it does not matter the seriousness of graveness of your ailment - Covid takes precedent.

If Hound wants to take snide shots like that then maybe he should be prepared that ask people who have lost loved ones or suffered hardship as a result of actions made to curb Covid.
Answer the question

Are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

I'm saying people like my uncle were cast aside by the health service because their ailments were not Covid related.

You have a few questions of your own that you have point blank refused to answer, unlike you I'm not a coward who runs away from them.

You haven't answered the question

The clear implication of your argument is that cancer treatment would be superior if the virus spread was allowed to increase

But this is obviously totally false

It seems your whole stance is based on magical thinking - let's pretend there's not a pandemic

When you're stumped, you just resort to insults

It's very telling

I've addressed the question.

My uncle did not get the care he should have, he was cast aside when he was in grave health situation because his ailment was not Covid related.

He should have been diagnosed and treated months ago, instead he was only admitted to hospital when his health hit a grave situation and was told at that points he had weeks to live, he was let home with a morphine drip to die.

He was a consequence of the strategy to made Covid front, right and centre. You asked a loaded question I addressed it, a loaded question that relates personally to me and the situation of my family. I brought it up so I am not going to get upset about this avenue.

Now I've asked you plenty of important questions on multiples occasions and you have refused to answer them, refused to address them, completely ignored them. That says a lot about your cowardice.
You made the implication that cancer patients would get better care if there was more Covid around rather than less

But that's wrong, it's obviously wrong, it's completely wrong

You still haven't addressed this

You're also speculating that your uncle's care was inadequate

We'd need to have the case file examined by an expert to make a determination on that

I'm not here to be a spokesperson for the NI NHS though

Once again, you can not deal with the truth.

The implication I made was that my uncle had serious need for medical attention but he was abandoned by the health system as Covid took priority. That is exactly and what I said and you can continue to try and go and manipulate the circumstances of his death and try and twist my words to say something I haven't but that says more about you.

What's wrong is that you are incapable of dealing with the truth, it's my fault for putting it out in the public domain but shame on you for trying to twist facts on the death of a relative of mine.

Like the coward you are you have still failed to address questions posed to you, one might say you are the real sociopath here.

You still haven't answered the question

Are you saying your uncle would have got better treatment in a situation where there was more Covid?

You can bluster all you like with Jack Nicholson impressions and continue shrieking insults but it's still not an answer

I've addressed the question three times now.

Unlike you, I'm not a coward and and unlike you, I'm not a sociopath.

You haven't addressed it

Now you're trying to weasel out of answering through sheer weight of blusterous posting
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 22, 2020, 01:21:55 PM
It's possible to see both sides of the argument here. Sid's view is that without what Angelo would describe as covid-vision the virus would spread rapidly as it is doing now*. Whereas Angelo's is that if covid-vision hadn't been the be all and end all, his uncle, Lord have mercy on him, would have received proper care.

I offer my deepest condolences to you Angelo on the death of your uncle and Hound on the death of his relative too.

*Fortunately so far the death toll hasn't reached the heights of the spring.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 01:26:49 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 01:19:04 PM
Everyone would have received better treatment had the NHS not abandoned cancer treatment and planned appointments to concentrate solely on covid which came no where close to overwhelming the NHS if you can't comprehend that, that is your own issue.

Would it be fair to say that opening up and having the A&E jammed like it has been (Ive been before  ;) ) over the years and the way this spreads it would have had a ripple effect?

Then having people into the hospital wards for visits, do you think it wouldnt spread in there?

Now just answer me those questions first... then you can come back with a question
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 01:27:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 12:59:03 PM

Careful Angelo, Seaney will be waying in with the 'weaponizing your uncle, how disgusting is that?) if he doesnt then he's full of shit!

So using your fathers case to be unemphatic to those being failed by the NHS due to lockdown and push your agenda  by saying up yours my da's getting treatment isn't weaponizing it!  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:29:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:21:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:18:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:13:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:10:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:03:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:51:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:58:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
But wobbler, maybe he just is an idiot?

Not just because he has different views. You have different views on this to many of us and you're not an idiot. You can debate reasonably. But it's obvious the difference between your posts and his posts.
Have you seen him on other threads?

I do take it personally. I think many of the deniers just don't know anyone who's been hit with it. But that's no excuse, as many of the people who take it seriously don't know anyone hit badly by it. But I have a relation who was killed by it, another in her 30s who has lung scarring because of it and 6 months later still has serious respiratory issues when doing any kind of exercise, and finally someone who has developed Parkinson's post Covid. So I take it personally.

The other muppet doesn't even know how a discussion board works. 40 people disagree with him, so 40 replies are needed. Jeez Louise. 🙄

This is the type of snide piece of shit response you get here.

We can all play victim bingo. There are plenty of victims of lockdown, plenty of people who have been harmed mentally, socially, physically - vulnerable people. But hey, f**k them right.

What makes the people you know so much more important than all those victims?

I had a 77 year old uncle pass away 4 weeks ago. He had cancer in remission, he had been failing badly for a number of months but wasn't seen to. About 6 weeks ago he was admitted to hospital and was told he had weeks to live. He's another victim of lockdown.

So spare me your f**king conceited arrogance.
Sorry to hear about your uncle

But are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

Because that's what you're strongly implying

He would have been diagnosed months ago had the whole health service not been consumed by Covid.

The way things have gone, unless you have Covid you are not priority, it does not matter the seriousness of graveness of your ailment - Covid takes precedent.

If Hound wants to take snide shots like that then maybe he should be prepared that ask people who have lost loved ones or suffered hardship as a result of actions made to curb Covid.
Answer the question

Are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

I'm saying people like my uncle were cast aside by the health service because their ailments were not Covid related.

You have a few questions of your own that you have point blank refused to answer, unlike you I'm not a coward who runs away from them.

You haven't answered the question

The clear implication of your argument is that cancer treatment would be superior if the virus spread was allowed to increase

But this is obviously totally false

It seems your whole stance is based on magical thinking - let's pretend there's not a pandemic

When you're stumped, you just resort to insults

It's very telling

I've addressed the question.

My uncle did not get the care he should have, he was cast aside when he was in grave health situation because his ailment was not Covid related.

He should have been diagnosed and treated months ago, instead he was only admitted to hospital when his health hit a grave situation and was told at that points he had weeks to live, he was let home with a morphine drip to die.

He was a consequence of the strategy to made Covid front, right and centre. You asked a loaded question I addressed it, a loaded question that relates personally to me and the situation of my family. I brought it up so I am not going to get upset about this avenue.

Now I've asked you plenty of important questions on multiples occasions and you have refused to answer them, refused to address them, completely ignored them. That says a lot about your cowardice.
You made the implication that cancer patients would get better care if there was more Covid around rather than less

But that's wrong, it's obviously wrong, it's completely wrong

You still haven't addressed this

You're also speculating that your uncle's care was inadequate

We'd need to have the case file examined by an expert to make a determination on that

I'm not here to be a spokesperson for the NI NHS though

Once again, you can not deal with the truth.

The implication I made was that my uncle had serious need for medical attention but he was abandoned by the health system as Covid took priority. That is exactly and what I said and you can continue to try and go and manipulate the circumstances of his death and try and twist my words to say something I haven't but that says more about you.

What's wrong is that you are incapable of dealing with the truth, it's my fault for putting it out in the public domain but shame on you for trying to twist facts on the death of a relative of mine.

Like the coward you are you have still failed to address questions posed to you, one might say you are the real sociopath here.

You still haven't answered the question

Are you saying your uncle would have got better treatment in a situation where there was more Covid?

You can bluster all you like with Jack Nicholson impressions and continue shrieking insults but it's still not an answer

I've addressed the question three times now.

Unlike you, I'm not a coward and and unlike you, I'm not a sociopath.

You haven't addressed it

Now you're trying to weasel out of answering through sheer weight of blusterous posting

Three times and yet you continue to ask a loaded question about a relative of mine who died.

My fault for bringing it up but you are a sewer rat.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 22, 2020, 01:30:49 PM
Is there anything to be said for saying another Mass?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 01:32:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 01:26:49 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 01:19:04 PM
Everyone would have received better treatment had the NHS not abandoned cancer treatment and planned appointments to concentrate solely on covid which came no where close to overwhelming the NHS if you can't comprehend that, that is your own issue.

Would it be fair to say that opening up and having the A&E jammed like it has been (Ive been before  ;) ) over the years and the way this spreads it would have had a ripple effect?

Then having people into the hospital wards for visits, do you think it wouldnt spread in there?

Now just answer me those questions first... then you can come back with a question

It's this the Donald Trump way of thinking, just make things up, repeat them enough like the "let it rip" comment and it makes it true.  Where did I mention open up A&E, I am talking about pre-planned appointments, cancer treatment, 90% of those in A&E were probably no more an emergency, I know folk though who went as they couldn't get an appointment with GP.  Why in a non-covid ward with PPE should a family member not be allowed to visit a very sick relative?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 01:26:49 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 01:19:04 PM
Everyone would have received better treatment had the NHS not abandoned cancer treatment and planned appointments to concentrate solely on covid which came no where close to overwhelming the NHS if you can't comprehend that, that is your own issue.

Would it be fair to say that opening up and having the A&E jammed like it has been (Ive been before  ;) ) over the years and the way this spreads it would have had a ripple effect?

Then having people into the hospital wards for visits, do you think it wouldnt spread in there?

Now just answer me those questions first... then you can come back with a question

Just seen this bit, don't flattery yourself son, you seem to have yourself on some pedestal there!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 01:35:27 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 01:27:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 12:59:03 PM

Careful Angelo, Seaney will be waying in with the 'weaponizing your uncle, how disgusting is that?) if he doesnt then he's full of shit!

So using your fathers case to be unemphatic to those being failed by the NHS due to lockdown and push your agenda  by saying up yours my da's getting treatment isn't weaponizing it!  ::)

My fathers case is simply giving you an example that the services that you and Angelo have said wasn't happening, is actually happening, its not closed unfortunately in order to save more lives some services are not running as before at its max.

In the cancer building at the City hospital treatments are going ahead on Wed Thursday and Friday every week, the lady on Spotlight the other night is an example of where its failed her and Angelo's uncle has dreadfully fallen into that bracket..

I haven't got an agenda though, so I fail to see your message to me..

But its ok for others to use relatives as examples as long as it fits the narrative ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:36:18 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 22, 2020, 01:21:55 PM
It's possible to see both sides of the argument here. Sid's view is that without what Angelo would describe as covid-vision the virus would spread rapidly as it is doing now*. Whereas Angelo's is that if covid-vision hadn't been the be all and end all, his uncle, Lord have mercy on him, would have received proper care.

I offer my deepest condolences to you Angelo on the death of your uncle and Hound on the death of his relative too.

*Fortunately so far the death toll hasn't reached the heights of the spring.

Thanks.

His illness was likely terminal in any case but it does highlight the dangers of what can happen when Covid becomes the only show in town. What about the number of people out there with undiagnosed cancer and other life threatening illnesses? They are being left behind by the health service as Covid is the only illness that matters. In my uncle's case he lived his life, he got to saw his children grow up, he got to see his grandchildren being born but there are plenty of people now in their 30s/40s/50s who will die from cancer and the likes as a result of resources being centred solely on Covid.

Some of the vicious attacks I have had on here, where my views have completely misrepresented, where I have had words put in my mouth and accusations about wanting people are quite frankly disgraceful.

There needs to be a discussion about the overall impacts of lockdowns but if you dare bring that into the spotlight a number of posters will try and bury you with hysteria and misinformation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on October 22, 2020, 01:41:29 PM
Sorry for your loss Angelo.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 01:43:40 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 01:26:49 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 01:19:04 PM
Everyone would have received better treatment had the NHS not abandoned cancer treatment and planned appointments to concentrate solely on covid which came no where close to overwhelming the NHS if you can't comprehend that, that is your own issue.

Would it be fair to say that opening up and having the A&E jammed like it has been (Ive been before  ;) ) over the years and the way this spreads it would have had a ripple effect?

Then having people into the hospital wards for visits, do you think it wouldnt spread in there?

Now just answer me those questions first... then you can come back with a question

Just seen this bit, don't flattery yourself son, you seem to have yourself on some pedestal there!

Alright Da, I'll try not to flattery myself !

So you have an idea on doing this? The logistics PPE the managing of all of what you have said would be handy enough?

Going into wards visits, treatments and other appointments would be like going into a nursing home, in the hospital we've the most sick, at the start of this pandemic they hadn't a clue how to stop it, control it manage it, so they closed and limited things down, stopped the spread, refused minor treatments and so on..

As they got a handle on it they started opening up more and that's where we are today, its not perfect but its getting better..The crystal ball or hindsight would have been handier to have though
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: naka on October 22, 2020, 01:47:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:36:18 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 22, 2020, 01:21:55 PM
It's possible to see both sides of the argument here. Sid's view is that without what Angelo would describe as covid-vision the virus would spread rapidly as it is doing now*. Whereas Angelo's is that if covid-vision hadn't been the be all and end all, his uncle, Lord have mercy on him, would have received proper care.

I offer my deepest condolences to you Angelo on the death of your uncle and Hound on the death of his relative too.

*Fortunately so far the death toll hasn't reached the heights of the spring.

Thanks.

His illness was likely terminal in any case but it does highlight the dangers of what can happen when Covid becomes the only show in town. What about the number of people out there with undiagnosed cancer and other life threatening illnesses? They are being left behind by the health service as Covid is the only illness that matters. In my uncle's case he lived his life, he got to saw his children grow up, he got to see his grandchildren being born but there are plenty of people now in their 30s/40s/50s who will die from cancer and the likes as a result of resources being centred solely on Covid.

Some of the vicious attacks I have had on here, where my views have completely misrepresented, where I have had words put in my mouth and accusations about wanting people are quite frankly disgraceful.

There needs to be a discussion about the overall impacts of lockdowns but if you dare bring that into the spotlight a number of posters will try and bury you with hysteria and misinformation.
to be fair Angelo you raise valid points on the virus.
its becoming clear that a fair few deaths are happening alongside the virus due to the closure of surgerys/hospitals focussed on the virus etc
we are in a mess because quite simply the health services are not fit for purpose through underfunding
there is no right and wrong but definitely both sides have strong arguments
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:54:57 PM
Quote from: naka on October 22, 2020, 01:47:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:36:18 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 22, 2020, 01:21:55 PM
It's possible to see both sides of the argument here. Sid's view is that without what Angelo would describe as covid-vision the virus would spread rapidly as it is doing now*. Whereas Angelo's is that if covid-vision hadn't been the be all and end all, his uncle, Lord have mercy on him, would have received proper care.

I offer my deepest condolences to you Angelo on the death of your uncle and Hound on the death of his relative too.

*Fortunately so far the death toll hasn't reached the heights of the spring.

Thanks.

His illness was likely terminal in any case but it does highlight the dangers of what can happen when Covid becomes the only show in town. What about the number of people out there with undiagnosed cancer and other life threatening illnesses? They are being left behind by the health service as Covid is the only illness that matters. In my uncle's case he lived his life, he got to saw his children grow up, he got to see his grandchildren being born but there are plenty of people now in their 30s/40s/50s who will die from cancer and the likes as a result of resources being centred solely on Covid.

Some of the vicious attacks I have had on here, where my views have completely misrepresented, where I have had words put in my mouth and accusations about wanting people are quite frankly disgraceful.

There needs to be a discussion about the overall impacts of lockdowns but if you dare bring that into the spotlight a number of posters will try and bury you with hysteria and misinformation.
to be fair Angelo you raise valid points on the virus.
its becoming clear that a fair few deaths are happening alongside the virus due to the closure of surgerys/hospitals focussed on the virus etc
we are in a mess because quite simply the health services are not fit for purpose through underfunding
there is no right and wrong but definitely both sides have strong arguments

I'm more than willing to listen to the other side but I didn't bring insults in first, I didn't accuse people of wanting others to die first, nor did I accuse people of not caring about the wellbeing of others first.

All these accusations were laid solely at my feet because I had the temerity to question whether lockdown and excessive restrictions will actually cause more problems than they solve.

The more data we get from the virus in Europe recently further strengthens where I stand on this. I could be right or wrong but some of attacks from other posters here for having that viewpoint are bang out of order.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on October 22, 2020, 02:00:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 12:59:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:51:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:58:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
But wobbler, maybe he just is an idiot?

Not just because he has different views. You have different views on this to many of us and you're not an idiot. You can debate reasonably. But it's obvious the difference between your posts and his posts.
Have you seen him on other threads?

I do take it personally. I think many of the deniers just don't know anyone who's been hit with it. But that's no excuse, as many of the people who take it seriously don't know anyone hit badly by it. But I have a relation who was killed by it, another in her 30s who has lung scarring because of it and 6 months later still has serious respiratory issues when doing any kind of exercise, and finally someone who has developed Parkinson's post Covid. So I take it personally.

The other muppet doesn't even know how a discussion board works. 40 people disagree with him, so 40 replies are needed. Jeez Louise. 🙄

This is the type of snide piece of shit response you get here.

We can all play victim bingo. There are plenty of victims of lockdown, plenty of people who have been harmed mentally, socially, physically - vulnerable people. But hey, f**k them right.

What makes the people you know so much more important than all those victims?

I had a 77 year old uncle pass away 4 weeks ago. He had cancer in remission, he had been failing badly for a number of months but wasn't seen to. About 6 weeks ago he was admitted to hospital and was told he had weeks to live. He's another victim of lockdown.

So spare me your f**king conceited arrogance.
Sorry to hear about your uncle

But are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

Because that's what you're strongly implying

He would have been diagnosed months ago had the whole health service not been consumed by Covid.

The way things have gone, unless you have Covid you are not priority, it does not matter the seriousness of graveness of your ailment - Covid takes precedent.

If Hound wants to take snide shots like that then maybe he should be prepared that ask people who have lost loved ones or suffered hardship as a result of actions made to curb Covid.
Answer the question

Are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

I'm saying people like my uncle were cast aside by the health service because their ailments were not Covid related.

You have a few questions of your own that you have point blank refused to answer, unlike you I'm not a coward who runs away from them.

You haven't answered the question

The clear implication of your argument is that cancer treatment would be superior if the virus spread was allowed to increase

But this is obviously totally false

It seems your whole stance is based on magical thinking - let's pretend there's not a pandemic

When you're stumped, you just resort to insults

It's very telling

I've addressed the question.

My uncle did not get the care he should have, he was cast aside when he was in grave health situation because his ailment was not Covid related.

He should have been diagnosed and treated months ago, instead he was only admitted to hospital when his health hit a grave situation and was told at that points he had weeks to live, he was let home with a morphine drip to die.

He was a consequence of the strategy to made Covid front, right and centre. You asked a loaded question I addressed it, a loaded question that relates personally to me and the situation of my family. I brought it up so I am not going to get upset about this avenue.

Now I've asked you plenty of important questions on multiples occasions and you have refused to answer them, refused to address them, completely ignored them. That says a lot about your cowardice.

Careful Angelo, Seaney will be waying in with the 'weaponizing your uncle, how disgusting is that?) if he doesnt then he's full of shit!
I was waiting for that! ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 02:09:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 01:43:40 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 01:26:49 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 01:19:04 PM
Everyone would have received better treatment had the NHS not abandoned cancer treatment and planned appointments to concentrate solely on covid which came no where close to overwhelming the NHS if you can't comprehend that, that is your own issue.

Would it be fair to say that opening up and having the A&E jammed like it has been (Ive been before  ;) ) over the years and the way this spreads it would have had a ripple effect?

Then having people into the hospital wards for visits, do you think it wouldnt spread in there?

Now just answer me those questions first... then you can come back with a question

Just seen this bit, don't flattery yourself son, you seem to have yourself on some pedestal there!

Alright Da, I'll try not to flattery myself !

So you have an idea on doing this? The logistics PPE the managing of all of what you have said would be handy enough?

Going into wards visits, treatments and other appointments would be like going into a nursing home, in the hospital we've the most sick, at the start of this pandemic they hadn't a clue how to stop it, control it manage it, so they closed and limited things down, stopped the spread, refused minor treatments and so on..

As they got a handle on it they started opening up more and that's where we are today, its not perfect but its getting better..The crystal ball or hindsight would have been handier to have though

Had they refused your fathers treatments would you have been happy enough, some treatments were far from minor but you make sure your narrative keeps on track, how many died early as a result of lockdown - or do you not care as long as it wasn't any of your ones!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 22, 2020, 02:17:02 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 22, 2020, 01:30:49 PM
Is there anything to be said for saying another Mass?

Online I hope!  :D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on October 22, 2020, 02:17:30 PM
Quote from: naka on October 22, 2020, 01:47:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:36:18 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 22, 2020, 01:21:55 PM
It's possible to see both sides of the argument here. Sid's view is that without what Angelo would describe as covid-vision the virus would spread rapidly as it is doing now*. Whereas Angelo's is that if covid-vision hadn't been the be all and end all, his uncle, Lord have mercy on him, would have received proper care.

I offer my deepest condolences to you Angelo on the death of your uncle and Hound on the death of his relative too.

*Fortunately so far the death toll hasn't reached the heights of the spring.

Thanks.

His illness was likely terminal in any case but it does highlight the dangers of what can happen when Covid becomes the only show in town. What about the number of people out there with undiagnosed cancer and other life threatening illnesses? They are being left behind by the health service as Covid is the only illness that matters. In my uncle's case he lived his life, he got to saw his children grow up, he got to see his grandchildren being born but there are plenty of people now in their 30s/40s/50s who will die from cancer and the likes as a result of resources being centred solely on Covid.

Some of the vicious attacks I have had on here, where my views have completely misrepresented, where I have had words put in my mouth and accusations about wanting people are quite frankly disgraceful.

There needs to be a discussion about the overall impacts of lockdowns but if you dare bring that into the spotlight a number of posters will try and bury you with hysteria and misinformation.
to be fair Angelo you raise valid points on the virus.
its becoming clear that a fair few deaths are happening alongside the virus due to the closure of surgerys/hospitals focussed on the virus etc
we are in a mess because quite simply the health services are not fit for purpose through underfunding
there is no right and wrong but definitely both sides have strong arguments

I agree with you here Naka, there are valid points on either side and im pretty torn and in fact most people I chat to are torn and ive actually seen quite a shift towards the thinking of Angelo in the last few weeks with lot of ones saying about mental health over the winter etc, the problem with this thread is the valid points on both sides are being over shadowed by personal attacks which is a shame because a lot of posters on both sides of the debate have points worth noting and discussing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Olly on October 22, 2020, 02:22:43 PM
What would you know with your stupid name themac underscore 23.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on October 22, 2020, 02:35:34 PM
Quote from: Olly on October 22, 2020, 02:22:43 PM
What would you know with your stupid name themac underscore 23.

Touche  ;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 02:46:06 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 02:09:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 01:43:40 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 01:26:49 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 01:19:04 PM
Everyone would have received better treatment had the NHS not abandoned cancer treatment and planned appointments to concentrate solely on covid which came no where close to overwhelming the NHS if you can't comprehend that, that is your own issue.

Would it be fair to say that opening up and having the A&E jammed like it has been (Ive been before  ;) ) over the years and the way this spreads it would have had a ripple effect?

Then having people into the hospital wards for visits, do you think it wouldnt spread in there?

Now just answer me those questions first... then you can come back with a question

Just seen this bit, don't flattery yourself son, you seem to have yourself on some pedestal there!

Alright Da, I'll try not to flattery myself !

So you have an idea on doing this? The logistics PPE the managing of all of what you have said would be handy enough?

Going into wards visits, treatments and other appointments would be like going into a nursing home, in the hospital we've the most sick, at the start of this pandemic they hadn't a clue how to stop it, control it manage it, so they closed and limited things down, stopped the spread, refused minor treatments and so on..

As they got a handle on it they started opening up more and that's where we are today, its not perfect but its getting better..The crystal ball or hindsight would have been handier to have though

Had they refused your fathers treatments would you have been happy enough, some treatments were far from minor but you make sure your narrative keeps on track, how many died early as a result of lockdown - or do you not care as long as it wasn't any of your ones!

How many have died as a result? I don't know
Had they refused the treatment? I'd have done nothing, we wouldn't be able to afford private chemo my dad would not have had the treatment
Do I care? yes.
No minor treatments were on offer, hearing/sight and so on, they closed that side down and concentrated on emergencies


See, I've answered the questions, without coming in with other questions and not answering the questions I was asked. Try it the next time you're asked one
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 03:18:24 PM
You are answering questions not even asked, are you a shinner, so the to aid the NHS you would have been happy enough had all your fathers treatment been cancelled?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 03:25:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:29:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:21:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:18:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:13:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:10:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:03:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:51:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:58:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
But wobbler, maybe he just is an idiot?

Not just because he has different views. You have different views on this to many of us and you're not an idiot. You can debate reasonably. But it's obvious the difference between your posts and his posts.
Have you seen him on other threads?

I do take it personally. I think many of the deniers just don't know anyone who's been hit with it. But that's no excuse, as many of the people who take it seriously don't know anyone hit badly by it. But I have a relation who was killed by it, another in her 30s who has lung scarring because of it and 6 months later still has serious respiratory issues when doing any kind of exercise, and finally someone who has developed Parkinson's post Covid. So I take it personally.

The other muppet doesn't even know how a discussion board works. 40 people disagree with him, so 40 replies are needed. Jeez Louise. 🙄

This is the type of snide piece of shit response you get here.

We can all play victim bingo. There are plenty of victims of lockdown, plenty of people who have been harmed mentally, socially, physically - vulnerable people. But hey, f**k them right.

What makes the people you know so much more important than all those victims?

I had a 77 year old uncle pass away 4 weeks ago. He had cancer in remission, he had been failing badly for a number of months but wasn't seen to. About 6 weeks ago he was admitted to hospital and was told he had weeks to live. He's another victim of lockdown.

So spare me your f**king conceited arrogance.
Sorry to hear about your uncle

But are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

Because that's what you're strongly implying

He would have been diagnosed months ago had the whole health service not been consumed by Covid.

The way things have gone, unless you have Covid you are not priority, it does not matter the seriousness of graveness of your ailment - Covid takes precedent.

If Hound wants to take snide shots like that then maybe he should be prepared that ask people who have lost loved ones or suffered hardship as a result of actions made to curb Covid.
Answer the question

Are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

I'm saying people like my uncle were cast aside by the health service because their ailments were not Covid related.

You have a few questions of your own that you have point blank refused to answer, unlike you I'm not a coward who runs away from them.

You haven't answered the question

The clear implication of your argument is that cancer treatment would be superior if the virus spread was allowed to increase

But this is obviously totally false

It seems your whole stance is based on magical thinking - let's pretend there's not a pandemic

When you're stumped, you just resort to insults

It's very telling

I've addressed the question.

My uncle did not get the care he should have, he was cast aside when he was in grave health situation because his ailment was not Covid related.

He should have been diagnosed and treated months ago, instead he was only admitted to hospital when his health hit a grave situation and was told at that points he had weeks to live, he was let home with a morphine drip to die.

He was a consequence of the strategy to made Covid front, right and centre. You asked a loaded question I addressed it, a loaded question that relates personally to me and the situation of my family. I brought it up so I am not going to get upset about this avenue.

Now I've asked you plenty of important questions on multiples occasions and you have refused to answer them, refused to address them, completely ignored them. That says a lot about your cowardice.
You made the implication that cancer patients would get better care if there was more Covid around rather than less

But that's wrong, it's obviously wrong, it's completely wrong

You still haven't addressed this

You're also speculating that your uncle's care was inadequate

We'd need to have the case file examined by an expert to make a determination on that

I'm not here to be a spokesperson for the NI NHS though

Once again, you can not deal with the truth.

The implication I made was that my uncle had serious need for medical attention but he was abandoned by the health system as Covid took priority. That is exactly and what I said and you can continue to try and go and manipulate the circumstances of his death and try and twist my words to say something I haven't but that says more about you.

What's wrong is that you are incapable of dealing with the truth, it's my fault for putting it out in the public domain but shame on you for trying to twist facts on the death of a relative of mine.

Like the coward you are you have still failed to address questions posed to you, one might say you are the real sociopath here.

You still haven't answered the question

Are you saying your uncle would have got better treatment in a situation where there was more Covid?

You can bluster all you like with Jack Nicholson impressions and continue shrieking insults but it's still not an answer

I've addressed the question three times now.

Unlike you, I'm not a coward and and unlike you, I'm not a sociopath.

You haven't addressed it

Now you're trying to weasel out of answering through sheer weight of blusterous posting

Three times and yet you continue to ask a loaded question about a relative of mine who died.

My fault for bringing it up but you are a sewer rat.
Calling somebody a sewer rat in response to a legitimate question is not an argument and only says anything about your character
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 03:26:35 PM
And differs from calling someone a sociopath because they don't follow your narrative - how?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 03:28:37 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 03:18:24 PM
You are answering questions not even asked, are you a shinner, so the to aid the NHS you would have been happy enough had all your fathers treatment been cancelled?

I'd be disappointed, like I'm disappointed that he's unwell, but I can't blame the NHS for that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
Quote from: naka on October 22, 2020, 01:47:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:36:18 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 22, 2020, 01:21:55 PM
It's possible to see both sides of the argument here. Sid's view is that without what Angelo would describe as covid-vision the virus would spread rapidly as it is doing now*. Whereas Angelo's is that if covid-vision hadn't been the be all and end all, his uncle, Lord have mercy on him, would have received proper care.

I offer my deepest condolences to you Angelo on the death of your uncle and Hound on the death of his relative too.

*Fortunately so far the death toll hasn't reached the heights of the spring.

Thanks.

His illness was likely terminal in any case but it does highlight the dangers of what can happen when Covid becomes the only show in town. What about the number of people out there with undiagnosed cancer and other life threatening illnesses? They are being left behind by the health service as Covid is the only illness that matters. In my uncle's case he lived his life, he got to saw his children grow up, he got to see his grandchildren being born but there are plenty of people now in their 30s/40s/50s who will die from cancer and the likes as a result of resources being centred solely on Covid.

Some of the vicious attacks I have had on here, where my views have completely misrepresented, where I have had words put in my mouth and accusations about wanting people are quite frankly disgraceful.

There needs to be a discussion about the overall impacts of lockdowns but if you dare bring that into the spotlight a number of posters will try and bury you with hysteria and misinformation.
to be fair Angelo you raise valid points on the virus.
its becoming clear that a fair few deaths are happening alongside the virus due to the closure of surgerys/hospitals focussed on the virus etc
we are in a mess because quite simply the health services are not fit for purpose through underfunding
there is no right and wrong but definitely both sides have strong arguments

Anecdotes are not data

Are there in depth investigations or studies into how Covid is affecting the treatment of non-Covid patients with serious conditions

Are there in depth studies into mental health

If there are, let's see them

Because nobody who thinks Level 5 is necessary thinks there are no negative effects of that

The point is, people who realise Level 5 is necessary realise those negative effects would be greatly amplified by just continuing to let virus spread increase

There are some people here who simply are not living in the real world

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 03:33:36 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 03:26:35 PM
And differs from calling someone a sociopath because they don't follow your narrative - how?
But proposing a massive increase in death and the overwhelming of the health system is sociopathic!

Own it

There's no need to be politically correct here - just honest

Honesty is the best policy and the stance of you and Fulvio is fundamentally dishonest

It's a feelings over facts, fantasy over reality mindset

There's simply no arguing with that

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 03:36:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 03:28:37 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 03:18:24 PM
You are answering questions not even asked, are you a shinner, so the to aid the NHS you would have been happy enough had all your fathers treatment been cancelled?

I'd be disappointed, like I'm disappointed that he's unwell, but I can't blame the NHS for that

So like myself you wouldn't be happy enough, took us a while but we got there.  The thing is thankfully for your father and yourself and wider family didn't go have to go through it, else I feel that disappointment would be somewhat more than disappointment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 03:38:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 03:33:36 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 03:26:35 PM
And differs from calling someone a sociopath because they don't follow your narrative - how?
But proposing a massive increase in death and the overwhelming of the health system is sociopathic!

Own it

There's no need to be politically correct here - just honest

Honesty is the best policy and the stance of you and Fulvio is fundamentally dishonest

It's a feelings over facts, fantasy over reality mindset

There's simply no arguing with that

Any quotes here again, also why do you leave a line between each sentence, I did that primary school so the teacher could write in corrections, is this the level you are at in your profession, no wonder they won't give you a laptop.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 22, 2020, 03:54:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 12:52:27 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 22, 2020, 12:49:44 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 22, 2020, 11:44:56 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/YkNPn0d/IMG-20201021-WA0023.jpg)

Are we ready to talk about mask ineffectiveness (when you don't bother to do the rest) yet?

I think Angelo Seaney and Sid should head to Cookstown and sort this out! Preferably with no masks on and hang around indoors

PPV stuff. GAA Board meet up turns into bloody gangwar.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 03:57:41 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on October 22, 2020, 02:17:30 PM
Quote from: naka on October 22, 2020, 01:47:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:36:18 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 22, 2020, 01:21:55 PM
It's possible to see both sides of the argument here. Sid's view is that without what Angelo would describe as covid-vision the virus would spread rapidly as it is doing now*. Whereas Angelo's is that if covid-vision hadn't been the be all and end all, his uncle, Lord have mercy on him, would have received proper care.

I offer my deepest condolences to you Angelo on the death of your uncle and Hound on the death of his relative too.

*Fortunately so far the death toll hasn't reached the heights of the spring.

Thanks.

His illness was likely terminal in any case but it does highlight the dangers of what can happen when Covid becomes the only show in town. What about the number of people out there with undiagnosed cancer and other life threatening illnesses? They are being left behind by the health service as Covid is the only illness that matters. In my uncle's case he lived his life, he got to saw his children grow up, he got to see his grandchildren being born but there are plenty of people now in their 30s/40s/50s who will die from cancer and the likes as a result of resources being centred solely on Covid.

Some of the vicious attacks I have had on here, where my views have completely misrepresented, where I have had words put in my mouth and accusations about wanting people are quite frankly disgraceful.

There needs to be a discussion about the overall impacts of lockdowns but if you dare bring that into the spotlight a number of posters will try and bury you with hysteria and misinformation.
to be fair Angelo you raise valid points on the virus.
its becoming clear that a fair few deaths are happening alongside the virus due to the closure of surgerys/hospitals focussed on the virus etc
we are in a mess because quite simply the health services are not fit for purpose through underfunding
there is no right and wrong but definitely both sides have strong arguments

I agree with you here Naka, there are valid points on either side and im pretty torn and in fact most people I chat to are torn and ive actually seen quite a shift towards the thinking of Angelo in the last few weeks with lot of ones saying about mental health over the winter etc, the problem with this thread is the valid points on both sides are being over shadowed by personal attacks which is a shame because a lot of posters on both sides of the debate have points worth noting and discussing
There is a tendency in a lot of humans, when confronted with a horrible reality, to turn to towards simplistic, easy answers

It's why, for instance, peddlers of homeopathy are able to prey on people with terminal cancer and their families

The "open it up" mob like Sunetra Gupta and the so called "Great Barrington Declaration" people are the Covid equivalent of quacks making a quick buck off the terminally ill
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 04:13:26 PM
So this is happening now - the owner of this nursing home was on Liveline this afternoon - the situation is appalling - it is not her fault, it is a pandemic problem

But still the fantasy that the vulnerable can be protected while the virus runs rampant through the rest of the population persists

But the real world doesn't care about feelings and fantasies

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/we-feel-totally-abandoned-nursing-home-owners-plea-for-help-from-hse-as-majority-of-residents-and-staff-test-positive-for-covid-19-39655652.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on October 22, 2020, 04:31:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 04:13:26 PM
So this is happening now - the owner of this nursing home was on Liveline this afternoon - the situation is appalling - it is not her fault, it is a pandemic problem

But still the fantasy that the vulnerable can be protected while the virus runs rampant through the rest of the population persists

But the real world doesn't care about feelings and fantasies

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/we-feel-totally-abandoned-nursing-home-owners-plea-for-help-from-hse-as-majority-of-residents-and-staff-test-positive-for-covid-19-39655652.html

Spot on. People saying old and vulnerable people should shield. They cannot live in a vacuum. 
There is a serious amount of selfishness going about.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 04:42:53 PM
Quote from: APM on October 22, 2020, 04:31:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 04:13:26 PM
So this is happening now - the owner of this nursing home was on Liveline this afternoon - the situation is appalling - it is not her fault, it is a pandemic problem

But still the fantasy that the vulnerable can be protected while the virus runs rampant through the rest of the population persists

But the real world doesn't care about feelings and fantasies

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/we-feel-totally-abandoned-nursing-home-owners-plea-for-help-from-hse-as-majority-of-residents-and-staff-test-positive-for-covid-19-39655652.html

Spot on. People saying old and vulnerable people should shield. They cannot live in a vacuum. 
There is a serious amount of selfishness going about.

Agree those poor sods locked in a violent relationship should suck it up and order more bandages and make up, those poor sods losing jobs, livelihoods, family, friends, their mind should get the kettle on and think they are lucky.  Those poor kids with learning difficulties, missing out on the interaction of loved ones should count their blessings, you are right there is a serious amount of selfishness going on, I get the feeling you ain't suffered too much personally through this last 8 months!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 04:48:53 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 04:42:53 PM
Quote from: APM on October 22, 2020, 04:31:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 04:13:26 PM
So this is happening now - the owner of this nursing home was on Liveline this afternoon - the situation is appalling - it is not her fault, it is a pandemic problem

But still the fantasy that the vulnerable can be protected while the virus runs rampant through the rest of the population persists

But the real world doesn't care about feelings and fantasies

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/we-feel-totally-abandoned-nursing-home-owners-plea-for-help-from-hse-as-majority-of-residents-and-staff-test-positive-for-covid-19-39655652.html

Spot on. People saying old and vulnerable people should shield. They cannot live in a vacuum. 
There is a serious amount of selfishness going about.

Agree those poor sods locked in a violent relationship should suck it up and order more bandages and make up, those poor sods losing jobs, livelihoods, family, friends, their mind should get the kettle on and think they are lucky.  Those poor kids with learning difficulties, missing out on the interaction of loved ones should count their blessings, you are right there is a serious amount of selfishness going on, I get the feeling you ain't suffered too much personally through this last 8 months!
Of course if we just "let people live™" like you want, all our problems will magically go away!

Forget nuance and complex problems - simplistic, easy answers and sloganeering will solve everything!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 04:54:36 PM
Good to see you have dropped the let it rip lie, but still using the spaces between lines - we will get you there, I know it will be slowly but maybe that's why the work laptop hasn't arrived.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 05:03:53 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 04:54:36 PM
Good to see you have dropped the let it rip lie, but still using the spaces between lines - we will get you there, I know it will be slowly but maybe that's why the work laptop hasn't arrived.
I have no idea what you're on about as regards laptop computers, what a very strange thing to say

I've asked you this several times and each time you've refused point blank to answer - what does "let people live™" mean if it doesn't mean let it rip?

People are actually living at the moment, the sun rises in the morning, the situation we're in is not great but the reality of life is that it throws very difficult situations at us from time to time

Sadly I don't believe you're capable of answering this question as it appears to me you haven't thought your stance through at all and only deal in vacuous slogans

There's a lot of this sort of noise you're emitting about on the internet at the moment and it is making any sort of reasoned debate impossible
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: naka on October 22, 2020, 06:29:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
Quote from: naka on October 22, 2020, 01:47:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:36:18 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 22, 2020, 01:21:55 PM
It's possible to see both sides of the argument here. Sid's view is that without what Angelo would describe as covid-vision the virus would spread rapidly as it is doing now*. Whereas Angelo's is that if covid-vision hadn't been the be all and end all, his uncle, Lord have mercy on him, would have received proper care.

I offer my deepest condolences to you Angelo on the death of your uncle and Hound on the death of his relative too.

*Fortunately so far the death toll hasn't reached the heights of the spring.

Thanks.

His illness was likely terminal in any case but it does highlight the dangers of what can happen when Covid becomes the only show in town. What about the number of people out there with undiagnosed cancer and other life threatening illnesses? They are being left behind by the health service as Covid is the only illness that matters. In my uncle's case he lived his life, he got to saw his children grow up, he got to see his grandchildren being born but there are plenty of people now in their 30s/40s/50s who will die from cancer and the likes as a result of resources being centred solely on Covid.

Some of the vicious attacks I have had on here, where my views have completely misrepresented, where I have had words put in my mouth and accusations about wanting people are quite frankly disgraceful.

There needs to be a discussion about the overall impacts of lockdowns but if you dare bring that into the spotlight a number of posters will try and bury you with hysteria and misinformation.
to be fair Angelo you raise valid points on the virus.
its becoming clear that a fair few deaths are happening alongside the virus due to the closure of surgerys/hospitals focussed on the virus etc
we are in a mess because quite simply the health services are not fit for purpose through underfunding
there is no right and wrong but definitely both sides have strong arguments

Anecdotes are not data

Are there in depth investigations or studies into how Covid is affecting the treatment of non-Covid patients with serious conditions

Are there in depth studies into mental health

If there are, let's see them

Because nobody who thinks Level 5 is necessary thinks there are no negative effects of that

The point is, people who realise Level 5 is necessary realise those negative effects would be greatly amplified by just continuing to let virus spread increase

There are some people here who simply are not living in the real world
Sid  I didn't pick sides
Look at bbc website 100 cancer operations alone in Belfast region pushed back
Close friends of My family have cancer treatments pushed back also
It's a shit show
There are arguments on both side

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 06:43:34 PM
Quote from: naka on October 22, 2020, 06:29:42 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
Quote from: naka on October 22, 2020, 01:47:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:36:18 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 22, 2020, 01:21:55 PM
It's possible to see both sides of the argument here. Sid's view is that without what Angelo would describe as covid-vision the virus would spread rapidly as it is doing now*. Whereas Angelo's is that if covid-vision hadn't been the be all and end all, his uncle, Lord have mercy on him, would have received proper care.

I offer my deepest condolences to you Angelo on the death of your uncle and Hound on the death of his relative too.

*Fortunately so far the death toll hasn't reached the heights of the spring.

Thanks.

His illness was likely terminal in any case but it does highlight the dangers of what can happen when Covid becomes the only show in town. What about the number of people out there with undiagnosed cancer and other life threatening illnesses? They are being left behind by the health service as Covid is the only illness that matters. In my uncle's case he lived his life, he got to saw his children grow up, he got to see his grandchildren being born but there are plenty of people now in their 30s/40s/50s who will die from cancer and the likes as a result of resources being centred solely on Covid.

Some of the vicious attacks I have had on here, where my views have completely misrepresented, where I have had words put in my mouth and accusations about wanting people are quite frankly disgraceful.

There needs to be a discussion about the overall impacts of lockdowns but if you dare bring that into the spotlight a number of posters will try and bury you with hysteria and misinformation.
to be fair Angelo you raise valid points on the virus.
its becoming clear that a fair few deaths are happening alongside the virus due to the closure of surgerys/hospitals focussed on the virus etc
we are in a mess because quite simply the health services are not fit for purpose through underfunding
there is no right and wrong but definitely both sides have strong arguments

Anecdotes are not data

Are there in depth investigations or studies into how Covid is affecting the treatment of non-Covid patients with serious conditions

Are there in depth studies into mental health

If there are, let's see them

Because nobody who thinks Level 5 is necessary thinks there are no negative effects of that

The point is, people who realise Level 5 is necessary realise those negative effects would be greatly amplified by just continuing to let virus spread increase

There are some people here who simply are not living in the real world
Sid  I didn't pick sides
Look at bbc website 100 cancer operations alone in Belfast region pushed back
Close friends of My family have cancer treatments pushed back also
It's a shit show
There are arguments on both side
Who among those who are arguing here that Level 5 restrictions are necessary and that the virus cannot be allowed to grow in spread, is arguing for cancer treatment to be denied to people?

Nobody

Your argument is with health administration and government, not with me

However the inescapable implication coming from those who are arguing that we should not impose restrictions to halt the spread of Covid, is that cancer treatment would be superior in a scenario where there was more Covid

There is no tenable argument that says this is remotely plausible

It is simply wrong


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 07:16:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 03:25:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:29:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:21:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:18:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:13:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:10:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:03:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:51:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:58:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
But wobbler, maybe he just is an idiot?

Not just because he has different views. You have different views on this to many of us and you're not an idiot. You can debate reasonably. But it's obvious the difference between your posts and his posts.
Have you seen him on other threads?

I do take it personally. I think many of the deniers just don't know anyone who's been hit with it. But that's no excuse, as many of the people who take it seriously don't know anyone hit badly by it. But I have a relation who was killed by it, another in her 30s who has lung scarring because of it and 6 months later still has serious respiratory issues when doing any kind of exercise, and finally someone who has developed Parkinson's post Covid. So I take it personally.

The other muppet doesn't even know how a discussion board works. 40 people disagree with him, so 40 replies are needed. Jeez Louise. 🙄

This is the type of snide piece of shit response you get here.

We can all play victim bingo. There are plenty of victims of lockdown, plenty of people who have been harmed mentally, socially, physically - vulnerable people. But hey, f**k them right.

What makes the people you know so much more important than all those victims?

I had a 77 year old uncle pass away 4 weeks ago. He had cancer in remission, he had been failing badly for a number of months but wasn't seen to. About 6 weeks ago he was admitted to hospital and was told he had weeks to live. He's another victim of lockdown.

So spare me your f**king conceited arrogance.
Sorry to hear about your uncle

But are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

Because that's what you're strongly implying

He would have been diagnosed months ago had the whole health service not been consumed by Covid.

The way things have gone, unless you have Covid you are not priority, it does not matter the seriousness of graveness of your ailment - Covid takes precedent.

If Hound wants to take snide shots like that then maybe he should be prepared that ask people who have lost loved ones or suffered hardship as a result of actions made to curb Covid.
Answer the question

Are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

I'm saying people like my uncle were cast aside by the health service because their ailments were not Covid related.

You have a few questions of your own that you have point blank refused to answer, unlike you I'm not a coward who runs away from them.

You haven't answered the question

The clear implication of your argument is that cancer treatment would be superior if the virus spread was allowed to increase

But this is obviously totally false

It seems your whole stance is based on magical thinking - let's pretend there's not a pandemic

When you're stumped, you just resort to insults

It's very telling

I've addressed the question.

My uncle did not get the care he should have, he was cast aside when he was in grave health situation because his ailment was not Covid related.

He should have been diagnosed and treated months ago, instead he was only admitted to hospital when his health hit a grave situation and was told at that points he had weeks to live, he was let home with a morphine drip to die.

He was a consequence of the strategy to made Covid front, right and centre. You asked a loaded question I addressed it, a loaded question that relates personally to me and the situation of my family. I brought it up so I am not going to get upset about this avenue.

Now I've asked you plenty of important questions on multiples occasions and you have refused to answer them, refused to address them, completely ignored them. That says a lot about your cowardice.
You made the implication that cancer patients would get better care if there was more Covid around rather than less

But that's wrong, it's obviously wrong, it's completely wrong

You still haven't addressed this

You're also speculating that your uncle's care was inadequate

We'd need to have the case file examined by an expert to make a determination on that

I'm not here to be a spokesperson for the NI NHS though

Once again, you can not deal with the truth.

The implication I made was that my uncle had serious need for medical attention but he was abandoned by the health system as Covid took priority. That is exactly and what I said and you can continue to try and go and manipulate the circumstances of his death and try and twist my words to say something I haven't but that says more about you.

What's wrong is that you are incapable of dealing with the truth, it's my fault for putting it out in the public domain but shame on you for trying to twist facts on the death of a relative of mine.

Like the coward you are you have still failed to address questions posed to you, one might say you are the real sociopath here.

You still haven't answered the question

Are you saying your uncle would have got better treatment in a situation where there was more Covid?

You can bluster all you like with Jack Nicholson impressions and continue shrieking insults but it's still not an answer

I've addressed the question three times now.

Unlike you, I'm not a coward and and unlike you, I'm not a sociopath.

You haven't addressed it

Now you're trying to weasel out of answering through sheer weight of blusterous posting

Three times and yet you continue to ask a loaded question about a relative of mine who died.

My fault for bringing it up but you are a sewer rat.
Calling somebody a sewer rat in response to a legitimate question is not an argument and only says anything about your character

You have had your answer three times, you have attempted to ask a loaded question involving the death of a relative. You don't happen to like that answer because it doesn't fit in with your twisted logic. You don't have the balls or moral courage to address a straight forward question I put to you on numerous, occasions - we both know you are too much of a coward to actually answer that.

Sewer rat is too decent a term for you.

You have gotten your answer, you have gotten it three times so how about you show some respect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 22, 2020, 07:37:14 PM
Hardstation has outlined it well as I did many pages back.
More Covid = less other ailments being treated/operated on.
Anyone that can't understand that is either a THICK ******* **** or a Gemmariod tin foil hatter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 08:04:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 07:16:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 03:25:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:29:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:21:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:18:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:13:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 01:10:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 01:03:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:56:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:51:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:47:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 11:58:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 22, 2020, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 21, 2020, 03:00:05 PM
Angelo whether you're right or wrong doesn't overly matter here. Not to me anyway.

You're absolutely correct to probe the preconceived concepts, lazy thinking, and in some cases sheer zealotry of contributors.

The number of hugely intolerant replies you've faced - especially those that wish to decry you as an idiot for maintaining an open mind - is completely out of order.

But for God's sake, please do everyone a favour and stop posting the same f**king post in a slightly reworded way, every few hours.

This thread is now unbearable to read. And it's mostly on you.
But wobbler, maybe he just is an idiot?

Not just because he has different views. You have different views on this to many of us and you're not an idiot. You can debate reasonably. But it's obvious the difference between your posts and his posts.
Have you seen him on other threads?

I do take it personally. I think many of the deniers just don't know anyone who's been hit with it. But that's no excuse, as many of the people who take it seriously don't know anyone hit badly by it. But I have a relation who was killed by it, another in her 30s who has lung scarring because of it and 6 months later still has serious respiratory issues when doing any kind of exercise, and finally someone who has developed Parkinson's post Covid. So I take it personally.

The other muppet doesn't even know how a discussion board works. 40 people disagree with him, so 40 replies are needed. Jeez Louise. 🙄

This is the type of snide piece of shit response you get here.

We can all play victim bingo. There are plenty of victims of lockdown, plenty of people who have been harmed mentally, socially, physically - vulnerable people. But hey, f**k them right.

What makes the people you know so much more important than all those victims?

I had a 77 year old uncle pass away 4 weeks ago. He had cancer in remission, he had been failing badly for a number of months but wasn't seen to. About 6 weeks ago he was admitted to hospital and was told he had weeks to live. He's another victim of lockdown.

So spare me your f**king conceited arrogance.
Sorry to hear about your uncle

But are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

Because that's what you're strongly implying

He would have been diagnosed months ago had the whole health service not been consumed by Covid.

The way things have gone, unless you have Covid you are not priority, it does not matter the seriousness of graveness of your ailment - Covid takes precedent.

If Hound wants to take snide shots like that then maybe he should be prepared that ask people who have lost loved ones or suffered hardship as a result of actions made to curb Covid.
Answer the question

Are you saying that if the spread of the virus had been much more extensive than it was, your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

I'm saying people like my uncle were cast aside by the health service because their ailments were not Covid related.

You have a few questions of your own that you have point blank refused to answer, unlike you I'm not a coward who runs away from them.

You haven't answered the question

The clear implication of your argument is that cancer treatment would be superior if the virus spread was allowed to increase

But this is obviously totally false

It seems your whole stance is based on magical thinking - let's pretend there's not a pandemic

When you're stumped, you just resort to insults

It's very telling

I've addressed the question.

My uncle did not get the care he should have, he was cast aside when he was in grave health situation because his ailment was not Covid related.

He should have been diagnosed and treated months ago, instead he was only admitted to hospital when his health hit a grave situation and was told at that points he had weeks to live, he was let home with a morphine drip to die.

He was a consequence of the strategy to made Covid front, right and centre. You asked a loaded question I addressed it, a loaded question that relates personally to me and the situation of my family. I brought it up so I am not going to get upset about this avenue.

Now I've asked you plenty of important questions on multiples occasions and you have refused to answer them, refused to address them, completely ignored them. That says a lot about your cowardice.
You made the implication that cancer patients would get better care if there was more Covid around rather than less

But that's wrong, it's obviously wrong, it's completely wrong

You still haven't addressed this

You're also speculating that your uncle's care was inadequate

We'd need to have the case file examined by an expert to make a determination on that

I'm not here to be a spokesperson for the NI NHS though

Once again, you can not deal with the truth.

The implication I made was that my uncle had serious need for medical attention but he was abandoned by the health system as Covid took priority. That is exactly and what I said and you can continue to try and go and manipulate the circumstances of his death and try and twist my words to say something I haven't but that says more about you.

What's wrong is that you are incapable of dealing with the truth, it's my fault for putting it out in the public domain but shame on you for trying to twist facts on the death of a relative of mine.

Like the coward you are you have still failed to address questions posed to you, one might say you are the real sociopath here.

You still haven't answered the question

Are you saying your uncle would have got better treatment in a situation where there was more Covid?

You can bluster all you like with Jack Nicholson impressions and continue shrieking insults but it's still not an answer

I've addressed the question three times now.

Unlike you, I'm not a coward and and unlike you, I'm not a sociopath.

You haven't addressed it

Now you're trying to weasel out of answering through sheer weight of blusterous posting

Three times and yet you continue to ask a loaded question about a relative of mine who died.

My fault for bringing it up but you are a sewer rat.
Calling somebody a sewer rat in response to a legitimate question is not an argument and only says anything about your character

You have had your answer three times, you have attempted to ask a loaded question involving the death of a relative. You don't happen to like that answer because it doesn't fit in with your twisted logic. You don't have the balls or moral courage to address a straight forward question I put to you on numerous, occasions - we both know you are too much of a coward to actually answer that.

Sewer rat is too decent a term for you.

You have gotten your answer, you have gotten it three times so how about you show some respect.
I'm sorry but your responses have been utterly ignorant

Again, the question was: If the virus spread had been more extensive than it was, would your uncle would have received better cancer treatment?

You didn't answer

The right answer is no, he wouldn't

And if the virus continues to spread more extensively, cancer treatment will get worse

You clearly want a scenario where the virus is allowed to spread more extensively

In that scenario, there would be more people whose cancer treatment suffers

Having had a relative die from cancer recently, I cannot believe that you want a scenario where an increased amount of people have to suffer from poor cancer treatment

It's quite shocking
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 22, 2020, 08:35:44 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 03:38:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 03:33:36 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 03:26:35 PM
And differs from calling someone a sociopath because they don't follow your narrative - how?
But proposing a massive increase in death and the overwhelming of the health system is sociopathic!

Own it

There's no need to be politically correct here - just honest

Honesty is the best policy and the stance of you and Fulvio is fundamentally dishonest

It's a feelings over facts, fantasy over reality mindset

There's simply no arguing with that

Any quotes here again, also why do you leave a line between each sentence, I did that primary school so the teacher could write in corrections, is this the level you are at in your profession, no wonder they won't give you a laptop.

Who told you to stop?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 22, 2020, 08:40:16 PM
(https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2020/10/16/europe-hospitals/a55aaaf6c10364857fc058ab7346943267a4698c/top-map-1200.png)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 22, 2020, 08:53:22 PM
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/hospitals-trying-to-protect-non-covid-services-hse-boss-says-1024273.html

CMO says herd immunity concept is 'something that's reserved for policy thinking around vaccination' https://jrnl.ie/5241956

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 22, 2020, 09:33:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 22, 2020, 08:40:16 PM
(https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2020/10/16/europe-hospitals/a55aaaf6c10364857fc058ab7346943267a4698c/top-map-1200.png)
Germany sticking out like a sore thumb. Are the really just a shower of joyless Krauts who love social isolating and living under a rock?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 22, 2020, 09:35:34 PM
Denmark doesn't look too bad. I think it is off the 14 day quarantine list and Italy also seems to be getting on rightly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 09:42:25 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 22, 2020, 09:33:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 22, 2020, 08:40:16 PM
(https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2020/10/16/europe-hospitals/a55aaaf6c10364857fc058ab7346943267a4698c/top-map-1200.png)
Germany sticking out like a sore thumb. Are the really just a shower of joyless Krauts who love social isolating and living under a rock?

Germany have the most ICU beds per population in the EU.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 10:05:03 PM
Brilliant news on Germany having the most ICU beds, that's the reason the virus isn't spreading as it knows there's no point in giving it to anyone
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 22, 2020, 10:09:46 PM
Quote
Germany sticking out like a sore thumb. Are the really just a shower of joyless Krauts who love social isolating and living under a rock?

If you were in Germany I doubt if the general setup is hugely different from neighbouring parts of the Netherlands or Switzerland. This suggests to me that the difference between cases under control and getting out of control is relatively small. The difference might not seem much but they affect the case rate. What they are I don't know, it could be faster testing, or better enforcement. It would be useful for someone to figure out the difference.
Likewise Czechia was fine for a long time then they did a Derry on it and became the worst. At some ,some quite small difference would have meant that Czechia would be more like Bavaria.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 10:58:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 10:05:03 PM
Brilliant news on Germany having the most ICU beds, that's the reason the virus isn't spreading as it knows there's no point in giving it to anyone

I think you will find a proper functioning health system is the primary reason why Covid has not had a big effect in Germany.

Germany have the 6th highest no of Covid cases in Europe and the 27th highest no of deaths per population in Europe.

Your agenda seems to go against anything I say without hint of you bringing anything of knowledge or having any clue of context.

Let's just agree that you're an idiot that can offer nothing of substance to this topic and leave it at that.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 22, 2020, 11:14:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 10:58:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 10:05:03 PM
Brilliant news on Germany having the most ICU beds, that's the reason the virus isn't spreading as it knows there's no point in giving it to anyone

I think you will find a proper functioning health system is the primary reason why Covid has not had a big effect in Germany.

Germany have the 6th highest no of Covid cases in Europe and the 27th highest no of deaths per population in Europe.

Your agenda seems to go against anything I say without hint of you bringing anything of knowledge or having any clue of context.

Let's just agree that you're an idiot that can offer nothing of substance to this topic and leave it at that.

Those are two different types of statistics. It doesn't do the discussion any justice to conflate them.

Going by 2020's breakout website of the year, worldometer.info:

Germany is 27th in Europe for deaths per capita.
Germany is 39th in Europe for cases per capita.

Just looking at those numbers, it seems like slowing transmission of the virus has been the key to their relative success so far. Whatever they are doing to achieve that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 11:20:10 PM
They are obviously achieving it by having more ICU beds, the virus has just been fed up and fuvked off
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 11:37:19 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 22, 2020, 11:14:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 10:58:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2020, 10:05:03 PM
Brilliant news on Germany having the most ICU beds, that's the reason the virus isn't spreading as it knows there's no point in giving it to anyone

I think you will find a proper functioning health system is the primary reason why Covid has not had a big effect in Germany.

Germany have the 6th highest no of Covid cases in Europe and the 27th highest no of deaths per population in Europe.

Your agenda seems to go against anything I say without hint of you bringing anything of knowledge or having any clue of context.

Let's just agree that you're an idiot that can offer nothing of substance to this topic and leave it at that.

Those are two different types of statistics. It doesn't do the discussion any justice to conflate them.

Going by 2020's breakout website of the year, worldometer.info:

Germany is 27th in Europe for deaths per capita.
Germany is 39th in Europe for cases per capita.

Just looking at those numbers, it seems like slowing transmission of the virus has been the key to their relative success so far. Whatever they are doing to achieve that.

Not when you look at it in terms of most populous European nations.

European countries with populations of over 20m (in order of their population with their rank in deaths per population):

Russia - 5th
Germany - 7th
France - 4th
UK - 2nd
Italy -3rd
Spain - 1st
Ukraine - 6th
Poland -8th

Poland is the only large country in Europe with a lower death total per population than Germany and Poland was very lightly hit in the first wave.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Lazer on October 22, 2020, 11:56:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 22, 2020, 10:09:46 PM
Quote
Germany sticking out like a sore thumb. Are the really just a shower of joyless Krauts who love social isolating and living under a rock?

If you were in Germany I doubt if the general setup is hugely different from neighbouring parts of the Netherlands or Switzerland. This suggests to me that the difference between cases under control and getting out of control is relatively small. The difference might not seem much but they affect the case rate. What they are I don't know, it could be faster testing, or better enforcement. It would be useful for someone to figure out the difference.
Likewise Czechia was fine for a long time then they did a Derry on it and became the worst. At some ,some quite small difference would have meant that Czechia would be more like Bavaria.

The did a Derry on it part - to me it seems pretty obvious what the factors involved here were - and what i consider to be one of the main ones is overlooked - due to a very successful first wave in Derry & Donegal, there is practically zero herd immunity, so therefore it was  much more susceptible to a second wave, and the increased testing, makes it look worse than many other areas would have been in the first wave.

Second - Staycations/Holistays - With the "wet" pubs in the south still closed, but outdoors open in the North, people were attracted to holiday in Derry - its far enough away from most places to feel like a holiday!

Third - Schools - not sure if it still is but at one stage St Columbs College was the biggest school (numbers wise) in Ireland, there was a lot of different people from people from different areas mixing

Fourth - Population Density - Areas of the city are very densely populated

Fifth - Derry is a deprived area - many people in the city feel they are lucky they have a job, and will do anything to keep it, mask symptons etc or like the self employed they simply can't afford to be off work self isolating etc .



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 23, 2020, 08:25:16 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-why-level-3-failed-and-why-level-5-might-too-1.4385342

"We really need to have very high levels of restrictions to get the virus under control because clearly we have uncontrolled community transmission," says Prof Kearney.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 08:32:54 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 22, 2020, 08:35:44 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 03:38:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 03:33:36 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 03:26:35 PM
And differs from calling someone a sociopath because they don't follow your narrative - how?
But proposing a massive increase in death and the overwhelming of the health system is sociopathic!

Own it

There's no need to be politically correct here - just honest

Honesty is the best policy and the stance of you and Fulvio is fundamentally dishonest

It's a feelings over facts, fantasy over reality mindset

There's simply no arguing with that

Any quotes here again, also why do you leave a line between each sentence, I did that primary school so the teacher could write in corrections, is this the level you are at in your profession, no wonder they won't give you a laptop.

Who told you to stop?

Oh dear that the best you have, a typo.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 23, 2020, 08:39:04 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 08:32:54 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 22, 2020, 08:35:44 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 03:38:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 03:33:36 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 03:26:35 PM
And differs from calling someone a sociopath because they don't follow your narrative - how?
But proposing a massive increase in death and the overwhelming of the health system is sociopathic!

Own it

There's no need to be politically correct here - just honest

Honesty is the best policy and the stance of you and Fulvio is fundamentally dishonest

It's a feelings over facts, fantasy over reality mindset

There's simply no arguing with that

Any quotes here again, also why do you leave a line between each sentence, I did that primary school so the teacher could write in corrections, is this the level you are at in your profession, no wonder they won't give you a laptop.

Who told you to stop?

Oh dear that the best you have, a typo.

My bad, thought it was a race to the bottom, given that the best you had was to have a go at someone for leaving spaces between the lines

No worries, you win.  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 08:49:29 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2020, 08:39:04 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 08:32:54 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 22, 2020, 08:35:44 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 03:38:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 03:33:36 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 03:26:35 PM
And differs from calling someone a sociopath because they don't follow your narrative - how?
But proposing a massive increase in death and the overwhelming of the health system is sociopathic!

Own it

There's no need to be politically correct here - just honest

Honesty is the best policy and the stance of you and Fulvio is fundamentally dishonest

It's a feelings over facts, fantasy over reality mindset

There's simply no arguing with that

Any quotes here again, also why do you leave a line between each sentence, I did that primary school so the teacher could write in corrections, is this the level you are at in your profession, no wonder they won't give you a laptop.

Who told you to stop?

Oh dear that the best you have, a typo.

My bad, thought it was a race to the bottom, given that the best you had was to have a go at someone for leaving spaces between the lines

No worries, you win.  ::)

No keep going it's fun to watch - I'll type fast again and maybe miss a comma - be great to get corrected .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 23, 2020, 08:51:44 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 08:49:29 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2020, 08:39:04 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 08:32:54 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 22, 2020, 08:35:44 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 03:38:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 03:33:36 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 03:26:35 PM
And differs from calling someone a sociopath because they don't follow your narrative - how?
But proposing a massive increase in death and the overwhelming of the health system is sociopathic!

Own it

There's no need to be politically correct here - just honest

Honesty is the best policy and the stance of you and Fulvio is fundamentally dishonest

It's a feelings over facts, fantasy over reality mindset

There's simply no arguing with that

Any quotes here again, also why do you leave a line between each sentence, I did that primary school so the teacher could write in corrections, is this the level you are at in your profession, no wonder they won't give you a laptop.

Who told you to stop?

Oh dear that the best you have, a typo.

My bad, thought it was a race to the bottom, given that the best you had was to have a go at someone for leaving spaces between the lines

No worries, you win.  ::)

No keep going it's fun to watch - I'll type fast again and maybe miss a comma - be great to get corrected .

Nah, can't be arsed.

















Happy enough to let you have this one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 08:54:50 AM
More fun to degrade folk for trying to make an informed choice I suppose.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 23, 2020, 09:05:25 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 08:54:50 AM
More fun to degrade folk for trying to make an informed choice I suppose.

I'm sorry if anything I said made you feel degraded.

If it's any consolation, the feeling isn't mutual.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 09:11:59 AM
That is Franko's level unfortunately.

He can't offer anything substantive so being smarmy is his default position
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 23, 2020, 09:12:54 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 09:11:59 AM
That is Franko's level unfortunately.

He can't offer anything substantive so being smarmy is his default position

Stop leaving spaces between the lines.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 09:37:37 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2020, 09:12:54 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 09:11:59 AM
That is Franko's level unfortunately.

He can't offer anything substantive so being smarmy is his default position

Stop leaving spaces between the lines.

Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2020, 08:51:44 AM

Nah, can't be arsed.

















Happy enough to let you have this one.

Gold! ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2020, 09:40:19 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 09:37:37 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2020, 09:12:54 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 09:11:59 AM
That is Franko's level unfortunately.

He can't offer anything substantive so being smarmy is his default position

Stop leaving spaces between the lines.

Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2020, 08:51:44 AM

Nah, can't be arsed.

















Happy enough to let you have this one.

Gold! ;D

Think this was a piss take?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 09:48:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2020, 09:40:19 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 09:37:37 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2020, 09:12:54 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 09:11:59 AM
That is Franko's level unfortunately.

He can't offer anything substantive so being smarmy is his default position

Stop leaving spaces between the lines.

Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2020, 08:51:44 AM

Nah, can't be arsed.

















Happy enough to let you have this one.

Gold! ;D

Think this was a piss take?

It always is.  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 23, 2020, 09:49:33 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 09:37:37 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2020, 09:12:54 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 09:11:59 AM
That is Franko's level unfortunately.

He can't offer anything substantive so being smarmy is his default position

Stop leaving spaces between the lines.

Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2020, 08:51:44 AM

Nah, can't be arsed.

















Happy enough to let you have this one.

Gold! ;D

Aw man.

Maybe go back to bed for a while.

Sleep it off.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 09:52:08 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2020, 09:49:33 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 09:37:37 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2020, 09:12:54 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 09:11:59 AM
That is Franko's level unfortunately.

He can't offer anything substantive so being smarmy is his default position

Stop leaving spaces between the lines.

Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2020, 08:51:44 AM

Nah, can't be arsed.

















Happy enough to let you have this one.

Gold! ;D

Aw man.

Maybe go back to bed for a while.

Sleep it off.

Even more Gold, classic, are you and Milhouse the Morecambe and Wise of the board.  :)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 23, 2020, 09:59:28 AM
Things will seem clearer in a couple of hours.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 23, 2020, 11:08:06 AM
::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on October 23, 2020, 12:40:02 PM
This is now up there with the US politics thread for having to trawl through shite to see any worthwhile posts
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 01:47:58 PM
Cases are not rising in Sweden, they said

Sweden had herd immunity, they said

Copy Sweden, they said

Sweden today reported 1,625 cases

They have herd immunity like I have a private jet and a penthouse apartment overlooking Central Park in New York

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElA6Y1KWkAE7xGD?format=png&name=small)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 01:53:01 PM
To get herd immunity - the masses have to get it!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 02:00:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 01:47:58 PM
Cases are not rising in Sweden, they said

Sweden had herd immunity, they said

Copy Sweden, they said

Sweden today reported 1,625 cases

They have herd immunity like I have a private jet and a penthouse apartment overlooking Central Park in New York

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElA6Y1KWkAE7xGD?format=png&name=small)

Who said Sweden had herd immunity?

Can you go a post without uttering complete falsehoods, you sensationalist spoof?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 02:01:35 PM
It's the new normal, you just keep making things up and if you repeat and repeat - someone will believe!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2020, 02:04:04 PM
What ever happened to Syferus? he was a decent buddy, good at debating, reasoning and so on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:05:18 PM
The same chap who was telling us to be like Sweden now seems to be deserting them  ;D

Almost like he hasn't a clue  ;D

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:05:59 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 01:53:01 PM
To get herd immunity - the masses have to get it!
Isn't that what you want?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 02:07:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:05:59 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 01:53:01 PM
To get herd immunity - the masses have to get it!
Isn't that what you want?

Quote where I said that - you are a total liar.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:11:48 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 02:07:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:05:59 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 01:53:01 PM
To get herd immunity - the masses have to get it!
Isn't that what you want?

Quote where I said that - you are a total liar.
I've offered you umpteen chances to clarify what you want and each time you've refused point blank to do so!

That's because what I said about is spot on!

And like the typical internet spoofer, all you have in response is abuse!

What you want is indeed for the masses to get it and a lot more people to die

You've been totally unable to dispute this, because it's true
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 02:12:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:05:18 PM
The same chap who was telling us to be like Sweden now seems to be deserting them  ;D

Almost like he hasn't a clue  ;D

You've just made porkies up.

Grow a backbone and show us someone on here who said Sweden had achieved herd immunity.

Given the level of fabrication you indulge in you sound like one of those right wing nutjobs you rail against, it's pathetic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 02:15:40 PM
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/optimized/3X/6/7/676f0ec5e60bfe691624e7609e38b8550639204d_2_480x562.jpeg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 02:16:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:11:48 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 02:07:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:05:59 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 01:53:01 PM
To get herd immunity - the masses have to get it!
Isn't that what you want?

Quote where I said that - you are a total liar.
I've offered you umpteen chances to clarify what you want and each time you've refused point blank to do so!

That's because what I said about is spot on!

And like the typical internet spoofer, all you have in response is abuse!

What you want is indeed for the masses to get it and a lot more people to die

You've been totally unable to dispute this, because it's true

So you just make stuff up instead, also point out all the abuse I have thrown out - you are degrading folk with impunity because they have views that don't fit into your narrative, you are bit if a narcissist really I feel.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 02:17:19 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 02:07:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:05:59 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 01:53:01 PM
To get herd immunity - the masses have to get it!
Isn't that what you want?

Quote where I said that - you are a total liar.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:17:35 PM
Fulvio is getting fierce confused now

Seems like all he has now is to log onto thefreekick.com to copy and paste his posts from other cranks  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 02:19:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:17:35 PM
Fulvio is getting fierce confused now

Seems like all he has now is to log onto thefreekick.com to copy and paste his posts from other cranks  ;D

Sorry total narcissist .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:19:37 PM
Bold red font from the lying sociopath, you can almost see the froth through the screen ;D

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:20:47 PM
Who needs Andy Goram when you have Angelo and Seany?  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 02:21:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:17:35 PM
Fulvio is getting fierce confused now

Seems like all he has now is to log onto thefreekick.com to copy and paste his posts from other cranks  ;D

Your sociopathic tenedencies rising to the summit once again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 02:22:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:19:37 PM
Bold red font from the lying sociopath, you can almost see the froth through the screen ;D

So are you going to quote or not, do you get the flu jab every year or not?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 23, 2020, 02:43:15 PM
Over half of 6 county schools with a case, this is higher than my impression of how things are in the 26. The virus seems widespread in the occupied territories. You have to wonder when the schools will reopen.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-54656456
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 02:55:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2020, 02:43:15 PM
Over half of 6 county schools with a case, this is higher than my impression of how things are in the 26. The virus seems widespread in the occupied territories. You have to wonder when the schools will reopen.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-54656456

If they close them any longer that they have, Swann and co have a lot to answer for, the damage they are going to do to these children will be immense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 23, 2020, 03:43:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2020, 02:43:15 PM
Over half of 6 county schools with a case, this is higher than my impression of how things are in the 26. The virus seems widespread in the occupied territories. You have to wonder when the schools will reopen.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-54656456

Seen this on the news, just over 2k covid cases in schools out of 350k pupils across the North. 2/3s pupils and 1/3 staff. And mostly in secondary schools?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 03:53:59 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 02:55:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2020, 02:43:15 PM
Over half of 6 county schools with a case, this is higher than my impression of how things are in the 26. The virus seems widespread in the occupied territories. You have to wonder when the schools will reopen.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-54656456

If they close them any longer that they have, Swann and co have a lot to answer for, the damage they are going to do to these children will be immense.
What about the damage you want to do to the population as a whole though?

That's far worse
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 23, 2020, 04:08:18 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 02:17:19 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 02:07:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:05:59 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 01:53:01 PM
To get herd immunity - the masses have to get it!
Isn't that what you want?

Quote where I said that - you are a total liar.

Giant red font!! Boys a boys this place is going off the rail these days. Becoming more and more like the cesspit that is twitter everyday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 23, 2020, 04:14:19 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 02:55:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2020, 02:43:15 PM
Over half of 6 county schools with a case, this is higher than my impression of how things are in the 26. The virus seems widespread in the occupied territories. You have to wonder when the schools will reopen.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-54656456

If they close them any longer that they have, Swann and co have a lot to answer for, the damage they are going to do to these children will be immense.

Seaney, do you reckon Armagh will get over the line in Ennis tomorrow?

What should McGeeney do to plug the leaks at the back?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 04:23:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2020, 02:04:04 PM
What ever happened to Syferus? he was a decent buddy, good at debating, reasoning and so on
Whatever you say.
He's destroying stolen-sheep these days with non stop diatribes against the GAA for causing Covid outbreaks , for playing games in the middle of "a century defining pandemic".
And he now tells us that Armagh hasn't been in Ireland since 1921.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 23, 2020, 04:27:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 04:23:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2020, 02:04:04 PM
What ever happened to Syferus? he was a decent buddy, good at debating, reasoning and so on
Whatever you say.
He's destroying stolen-sheep these days with non stop diatribes against the GAA for causing Covid outbreaks , for playing games in the middle of "a century defining pandemic".
And he now tells us that Armagh hasn't been in Ireland since 1921.

Where at?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 23, 2020, 04:28:45 PM
remove that last comment... you'll have them all over to correct that!!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 04:38:24 PM
 ;D

Meanwhile another superhero of the nasty extreme right wing

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/protester-beat-activist-with-tricolour-on-plank-39660339.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 04:57:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 04:38:24 PM
;D

Meanwhile another superhero of the nasty extreme right wing

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/protester-beat-activist-with-tricolour-on-plank-39660339.html

I have no time for extreme right or extreme left. In this instance I would question the presence of a far left activist in close proximity to a far right rally. Said activist was there to antagonize the right, with verbals and antifa type nonsense. I don't condone violence but It was unwise of left leaning lady to abuse right wing man. Hope Ireland doesn't turn in US with right wing proud boys and left wing BLM/ Antifa type face offs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 05:06:20 PM
Are you saying a woman in her 50s deserved what she got from a 29 year old Male ? (I wouldn't use the term man in regard to that sc**bag)
To be bashed over the head with a fkn plank of wood?
She has every right to peacefully protest.
Fair play to the Judge for refusing jurisdiction. Much too serious for the Dustrict Court.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 05:06:32 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 04:57:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 04:38:24 PM
;D

Meanwhile another superhero of the nasty extreme right wing

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/protester-beat-activist-with-tricolour-on-plank-39660339.html

I have no time for extreme right or extreme left. In this instance I would question the presence of a far left activist in close proximity to a far right rally. Said activist was there to antagonize the right, with verbals and antifa type nonsense. I don't condone violence but It was unwise of left leaning lady to abuse right wing man. Hope Ireland doesn't turn in US with right wing proud boys and left wing BLM/ Antifa type face offs.
How telling that you victim blame a peaceful protestor rather than the fascist that assaulted her

No need to say anything more, you've already said enough about yourself

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 05:06:50 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 23, 2020, 04:08:18 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 02:17:19 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 02:07:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 02:05:59 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 01:53:01 PM
To get herd immunity - the masses have to get it!
Isn't that what you want?

Quote where I said that - you are a total liar.

Giant red font!! Boys a boys this place is going off the rail these days. Becoming more and more like the cesspit that is twitter everyday.

Like the vaccine you can opt out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 05:06:32 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 04:57:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 04:38:24 PM
;D

Meanwhile another superhero of the nasty extreme right wing

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/protester-beat-activist-with-tricolour-on-plank-39660339.html

I have no time for extreme right or extreme left. In this instance I would question the presence of a far left activist in close proximity to a far right rally. Said activist was there to antagonize the right, with verbals and antifa type nonsense. I don't condone violence but It was unwise of left leaning lady to abuse right wing man. Hope Ireland doesn't turn in US with right wing proud boys and left wing BLM/ Antifa type face offs.
How telling that you victim blame a peaceful protestor rather than the fascist that assaulted her

No need to say anything more, you've already said enough about yourself

I would consider you Sid to be one of the extreme far left types.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 05:19:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 05:06:20 PM
Are you saying a woman in her 50s deserved what she got from a 29 year old Male ? (I wouldn't use the term man in regard to that sc**bag)
To be bashed over the head with a fkn plank of wood?
She has every right to peacefully protest.
Fair play to the Judge for refusing jurisdiction. Much too serious for the Dustrict Court.

No I didn't say she deserved to be hit with a plank, I said she was unwise to verbally abuse a far right protester at a far right rally. I would say its unwise for a far right activist to abuse a far left activist at a far left rally. Getting into a cage with hungry lions would be unwise too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 05:37:42 PM
How about condemning the male who hit a woman twice his age with a plank of wood Rudi?.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 05:45:47 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 05:37:42 PM
How about condemning the male who hit a woman twice his age with a plank of wood Rudi?.

I did if you read my original post. And I'll say it again now, I don't condone violence. Is that good enough Rossfan, how about you dont misrepresent what I say again. You called me a Covid denier previously in this thread. I'm surprised you're so at odds with Syferus, you 2 have broadly the same beliefs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 23, 2020, 05:57:32 PM
777 new cases in the 26 counties, and 1,252 in the 6 counties, where over one quarter of these tested were positive, which suggests that they have likely missed some cases. There wasn't that positivity rate back in April!
I reckon the 26 counties will get things down before Xmas, not sure about the wee 6.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 23, 2020, 06:14:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2020, 05:57:32 PM
777 new cases in the 26 counties, and 1,252 in the 6 counties, where over one quarter of these tested were positive, which suggests that they have likely missed some cases. There wasn't that positivity rate back in April!
I reckon the 26 counties will get things down before Xmas, not sure about the wee 6.

First time in 2 weeks to have a day with under 800 cases reported. 7-day positivity rate on testing down to 6.6% it was 7.3% this time last week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 23, 2020, 06:17:48 PM
I was driving there and the six county stats they gave out were nine hundred and something? I can't see the total for today if I google. They seem to be yesterday's.( could be missing the obvious).

I imagine they will drop here eventually too. This wave can't go on for another nine or ten weeks... or can it??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 23, 2020, 06:29:44 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 23, 2020, 06:17:48 PM
I was driving there and the six county stats they gave out were nine hundred and something? I can't see the total for today if I google. They seem to be yesterday's.( could be missing the obvious).

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/cpsprodpb/04A0/production/_115048110_23oct-ni-nc.png)

QuoteI imagine they will drop here eventually too. This wave can't go on for another nine or ten weeks... or can it??

1200 a day, you should have herd immunity in 1000 days or around Xmas 2023.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 06:36:03 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 05:45:47 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 05:37:42 PM
How about condemning the male who hit a woman twice his age with a plank of wood Rudi?.

I did if you read my original post. And I'll say it again now, I don't condone violence. Is that good enough Rossfan, how about you dont misrepresent what I say again. You called me a Covid denier previously in this thread. I'm surprised you're so at odds with Syferus, you 2 have broadly the same beliefs.
You just threw out a generic "I dont condone violence"
You then went on to blame the victim.
Do you condemn this particular act of violence by a 29 year old male on a woman in her 50s?
YES
or
NO.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 06:40:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 06:36:03 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 05:45:47 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 05:37:42 PM
How about condemning the male who hit a woman twice his age with a plank of wood Rudi?.

I did if you read my original post. And I'll say it again now, I don't condone violence. Is that good enough Rossfan, how about you dont misrepresent what I say again. You called me a Covid denier previously in this thread. I'm surprised you're so at odds with Syferus, you 2 have broadly the same beliefs.
You just threw out a generic "I dont condone violence"
You then went on to blame the victim.
Do you condemn this particular act of violence by a 29 year old male on a woman in her 50s?
YES
or
NO.

Yes, I thought I made that pretty clear.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 23, 2020, 06:43:07 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/G3Qf7hcd/NI-covid-Oct23.png)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 06:47:58 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 05:06:32 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 04:57:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 04:38:24 PM
;D

Meanwhile another superhero of the nasty extreme right wing

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/protester-beat-activist-with-tricolour-on-plank-39660339.html

I have no time for extreme right or extreme left. In this instance I would question the presence of a far left activist in close proximity to a far right rally. Said activist was there to antagonize the right, with verbals and antifa type nonsense. I don't condone violence but It was unwise of left leaning lady to abuse right wing man. Hope Ireland doesn't turn in US with right wing proud boys and left wing BLM/ Antifa type face offs.
How telling that you victim blame a peaceful protestor rather than the fascist that assaulted her

No need to say anything more, you've already said enough about yourself

I would consider you Sid to be one of the extreme far left types.
Apparently blaming a fascist for the assaulting a peaceful protestor - not the peaceful protestor - is "far left" now

I think reasonable people can see what it is
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 06:50:41 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 05:19:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 05:06:20 PM
Are you saying a woman in her 50s deserved what she got from a 29 year old Male ? (I wouldn't use the term man in regard to that sc**bag)
To be bashed over the head with a fkn plank of wood?
She has every right to peacefully protest.
Fair play to the Judge for refusing jurisdiction. Much too serious for the Dustrict Court.

No I didn't say she deserved to be hit with a plank, I said she was unwise to verbally abuse a far right protester at a far right rally. I would say its unwise for a far right activist to abuse a far left activist at a far left rally. Getting into a cage with hungry lions would be unwise too.
You focussed on the peaceful protestor as being to blame for her own assault - not the fascist

You'd want to have a serious look at yourself

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 06:51:59 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 06:40:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 06:36:03 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 05:45:47 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 05:37:42 PM
How about condemning the male who hit a woman twice his age with a plank of wood Rudi?.

I did if you read my original post. And I'll say it again now, I don't condone violence. Is that good enough Rossfan, how about you dont misrepresent what I say again. You called me a Covid denier previously in this thread. I'm surprised you're so at odds with Syferus, you 2 have broadly the same beliefs.
You just threw out a generic "I dont condone violence"
You then went on to blame the victim.
Do you condemn this particular act of violence by a 29 year old male on a woman in her 50s?
YES
or
NO.

Yes, I thought I made that pretty clear.
And do you accept that the peaceful protestor is 0% to blame for being assaulted?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 07:03:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 06:47:58 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 05:06:32 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 04:57:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 04:38:24 PM
;D

Meanwhile another superhero of the nasty extreme right wing

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/protester-beat-activist-with-tricolour-on-plank-39660339.html

I have no time for extreme right or extreme left. In this instance I would question the presence of a far left activist in close proximity to a far right rally. Said activist was there to antagonize the right, with verbals and antifa type nonsense. I don't condone violence but It was unwise of left leaning lady to abuse right wing man. Hope Ireland doesn't turn in US with right wing proud boys and left wing BLM/ Antifa type face offs.
How telling that you victim blame a peaceful protestor rather than the fascist that assaulted her

No need to say anything more, you've already said enough about yourself

I would consider you Sid to be one of the extreme far left types.
Apparently blaming a fascist for the assaulting a peaceful protestor - not the peaceful protestor - is "far left" now

I think reasonable people can see what it is

Didn't formulate an opinion on you on one post alone, multiple posts on other threads.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 23, 2020, 07:06:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2020, 06:43:07 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/G3Qf7hcd/NI-covid-Oct23.png)

I live right in the middle of this mid ulster darkness and I still know/know of one person with it. It's very strange numbers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 23, 2020, 07:19:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2020, 06:29:44 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 23, 2020, 06:17:48 PM
I was driving there and the six county stats they gave out were nine hundred and something? I can't see the total for today if I google. They seem to be yesterday's.( could be missing the obvious).

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/cpsprodpb/04A0/production/_115048110_23oct-ni-nc.png)

QuoteI imagine they will drop here eventually too. This wave can't go on for another nine or ten weeks... or can it??

1200 a day, you should have herd immunity in 1000 days or around Xmas 2023.

Ah ok cheers. Radio said 900 odd. We'll drop eventually.... sometime
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2020, 07:25:28 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 23, 2020, 07:10:38 PM
I know 2 people in Mid Ulster who have it and I don't even know many people in Mid Ulster. You need to get out more. Or, no, stay in STAY IN!

Knew one of the first to get it, then a few more from the club, numbers slowed down then a few started getting it lately. Asked how they got on and they felt pretty unwell with it, lads in their 30's and 40's
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 07:26:44 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 06:40:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 06:36:03 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 05:45:47 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 05:37:42 PM
How about condemning the male who hit a woman twice his age with a plank of wood Rudi?.

I did if you read my original post. And I'll say it again now, I don't condone violence. Is that good enough Rossfan, how about you dont misrepresent what I say again. You called me a Covid denier previously in this thread. I'm surprised you're so at odds with Syferus, you 2 have broadly the same beliefs.
You just threw out a generic "I dont condone violence"
You then went on to blame the victim.
Do you condemn this particular act of violence by a 29 year old male on a woman in her 50s?
YES
or
NO.

Yes, I thought I made that pretty clear.
Good.
You have now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on October 23, 2020, 07:40:43 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 23, 2020, 07:06:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2020, 06:43:07 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/G3Qf7hcd/NI-covid-Oct23.png)

I live right in the middle of this mid ulster darkness and I still know/know of one person with it. It's very strange numbers.

I know of 20 people at least in mid-Ulster with it right now. And I don't even live there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2020, 07:44:25 PM
Quote from: ONeill on October 23, 2020, 07:40:43 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 23, 2020, 07:06:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2020, 06:43:07 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/G3Qf7hcd/NI-covid-Oct23.png)

I live right in the middle of this mid ulster darkness and I still know/know of one person with it. It's very strange numbers.

I know of 20 people at least in mid-Ulster with it right now. And I don't even live there.

;D ;D ;D ;D  Poots was right all along
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 23, 2020, 07:52:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2020, 07:44:25 PM
Quote from: ONeill on October 23, 2020, 07:40:43 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 23, 2020, 07:06:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2020, 06:43:07 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/G3Qf7hcd/NI-covid-Oct23.png)

I live right in the middle of this mid ulster darkness and I still know/know of one person with it. It's very strange numbers.

I know of 20 people at least in mid-Ulster with it right now. And I don't even live there.

;D ;D ;D ;D  Poots was right all along

Assume this is the usual cloak and daggers stuff "Dungannon is riddled", "Cookstown is riddled".....Friend of a friend, cousins sister boyfriend stuff.

It's very strange lads, I know you wouldn't exactly publicise it, but I work in a fairly decent sized company in Mid Ulster, there has been nobody off whatsoever with this yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on October 23, 2020, 07:54:07 PM
Take a wee scoot down to the loughshore. Head into the local shop and ask if there's much of it around. You'll be there a while.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2020, 07:55:13 PM
Some people won't advertise it, I got the feeling from one client of mine that he was embarrassed or shamed by getting it! Very strange
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2020, 08:01:01 PM
honestly i know about 60 odds, 30 in factory, and the low economic thingy is a load of balls up here
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 08:13:28 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 07:03:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 06:47:58 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 05:06:32 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 04:57:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 04:38:24 PM
;D

Meanwhile another superhero of the nasty extreme right wing

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/protester-beat-activist-with-tricolour-on-plank-39660339.html

I have no time for extreme right or extreme left. In this instance I would question the presence of a far left activist in close proximity to a far right rally. Said activist was there to antagonize the right, with verbals and antifa type nonsense. I don't condone violence but It was unwise of left leaning lady to abuse right wing man. Hope Ireland doesn't turn in US with right wing proud boys and left wing BLM/ Antifa type face offs.
How telling that you victim blame a peaceful protestor rather than the fascist that assaulted her

No need to say anything more, you've already said enough about yourself

I would consider you Sid to be one of the extreme far left types.
Apparently blaming a fascist for the assaulting a peaceful protestor - not the peaceful protestor - is "far left" now

I think reasonable people can see what it is

Didn't formulate an opinion on you on one post alone, multiple posts on other threads.
Aye, and I've certainly formulated an opinion on you from your utter weasel words
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 08:25:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 08:13:28 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 07:03:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 06:47:58 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 05:06:32 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 04:57:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 04:38:24 PM
;D

Meanwhile another superhero of the nasty extreme right wing

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/protester-beat-activist-with-tricolour-on-plank-39660339.html

I have no time for extreme right or extreme left. In this instance I would question the presence of a far left activist in close proximity to a far right rally. Said activist was there to antagonize the right, with verbals and antifa type nonsense. I don't condone violence but It was unwise of left leaning lady to abuse right wing man. Hope Ireland doesn't turn in US with right wing proud boys and left wing BLM/ Antifa type face offs.
How telling that you victim blame a peaceful protestor rather than the fascist that assaulted her

No need to say anything more, you've already said enough about yourself

I would consider you Sid to be one of the extreme far left types.
Apparently blaming a fascist for the assaulting a peaceful protestor - not the peaceful protestor - is "far left" now

I think reasonable people can see what it is

Didn't formulate an opinion on you on one post alone, multiple posts on other threads.
Aye, and I've certainly formulated an opinion on you from your utter weasel words
Like I give a sh×te what a lad who spends his entire day hopping from one forum to another spouting utter bile thinks  of me. Suppose I'm a right wing fascist cause I disagree with you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on October 23, 2020, 08:30:42 PM
That Linda Ervine situation is a rare one. She's had the virus and got through it. Now she got a ping to say she was in close contact with someone who now has it, so has to isolate again for 14 days.

Probably the wrong thing to say but I don't think I'd have the app turned on if I already had it and recovered.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 08:36:58 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 08:25:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 08:13:28 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 07:03:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 06:47:58 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 05:06:32 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 04:57:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 04:38:24 PM
;D

Meanwhile another superhero of the nasty extreme right wing

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/protester-beat-activist-with-tricolour-on-plank-39660339.html

I have no time for extreme right or extreme left. In this instance I would question the presence of a far left activist in close proximity to a far right rally. Said activist was there to antagonize the right, with verbals and antifa type nonsense. I don't condone violence but It was unwise of left leaning lady to abuse right wing man. Hope Ireland doesn't turn in US with right wing proud boys and left wing BLM/ Antifa type face offs.
How telling that you victim blame a peaceful protestor rather than the fascist that assaulted her

No need to say anything more, you've already said enough about yourself

I would consider you Sid to be one of the extreme far left types.
Apparently blaming a fascist for the assaulting a peaceful protestor - not the peaceful protestor - is "far left" now

I think reasonable people can see what it is

Didn't formulate an opinion on you on one post alone, multiple posts on other threads.
Aye, and I've certainly formulated an opinion on you from your utter weasel words
Like I give a sh×te what a lad who spends his entire day hopping from one forum to another spouting utter bile thinks  of me. Suppose I'm a right wing fascist cause I disagree with you.
Given that your reaction to the assault of a peaceful female protestor by a fascist was to blame the protestor rather than the fascist, I think reasonable people can see who's full of bile, mate
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: redzone on October 23, 2020, 08:39:22 PM
https://youtu.be/sbMJoJ6i39k
Worth a listen
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 08:41:56 PM
Quote from: redzone on October 23, 2020, 08:39:22 PM
https://youtu.be/sbMJoJ6i39k
Worth a listen
Took one look at that and saw the name of English far right climate change denier and disinformation peddler James Delingpole

Hmmmm

No thanks


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2020, 08:55:43 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 23, 2020, 08:37:34 PM
Quote from: ONeill on October 23, 2020, 08:30:42 PM
That Linda Ervine situation is a rare one. She's had the virus and got through it. Now she got a ping to say she was in close contact with someone who now has it, so has to isolate again for 14 days.

Probably the wrong thing to say but I don't think I'd have the app turned on if I already had it and recovered.
She's probably looking about a grant.

(Got in before Fear Bun Na Sceilpe)

:) :) :)
Fair play lad, enjoyed that to be fair.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 08:57:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 08:41:56 PM
Quote from: redzone on October 23, 2020, 08:39:22 PM
https://youtu.be/sbMJoJ6i39k
Worth a listen
Took one look at that and saw the name of English far right climate change denier and disinformation peddler James Delingpole

Hmmmm

No thanks

Far right reference - check.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 09:40:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 08:57:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 08:41:56 PM
Quote from: redzone on October 23, 2020, 08:39:22 PM
https://youtu.be/sbMJoJ6i39k
Worth a listen
Took one look at that and saw the name of English far right climate change denier and disinformation peddler James Delingpole

Hmmmm

No thanks

Far right reference - check.
Is Breitbart far right, mate?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 09:40:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 08:57:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 08:41:56 PM
Quote from: redzone on October 23, 2020, 08:39:22 PM
https://youtu.be/sbMJoJ6i39k
Worth a listen
Took one look at that and saw the name of English far right climate change denier and disinformation peddler James Delingpole

Hmmmm

No thanks

Far right reference - check.
Is Breitbart far right, mate?

Couldn't tell you.

You have a lot in common with the far right yourself though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 10:13:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 09:40:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 08:57:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 08:41:56 PM
Quote from: redzone on October 23, 2020, 08:39:22 PM
https://youtu.be/sbMJoJ6i39k
Worth a listen
Took one look at that and saw the name of English far right climate change denier and disinformation peddler James Delingpole

Hmmmm

No thanks

Far right reference - check.
Is Breitbart far right, mate?

Couldn't tell you.

You have a lot in common with the far right yourself though.

How would you know, given that you claim to not know what the best known far right website in the world is?

Given that you claim to hate people being wrongly branded as far right - which nobody has ever given an example of me doing - don't you see then irony in turning around and doing the exact thing you claim to hate?

No, of course you don't  ;D

A totally irony free zone, is our Bomber
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 11:31:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 10:13:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 09:40:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 08:57:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 08:41:56 PM
Quote from: redzone on October 23, 2020, 08:39:22 PM
https://youtu.be/sbMJoJ6i39k
Worth a listen
Took one look at that and saw the name of English far right climate change denier and disinformation peddler James Delingpole

Hmmmm

No thanks

Far right reference - check.
Is Breitbart far right, mate?

Couldn't tell you.

You have a lot in common with the far right yourself though.

How would you know, given that you claim to not know what the best known far right website in the world is?

Given that you claim to hate people being wrongly branded as far right - which nobody has ever given an example of me doing - don't you see then irony in turning around and doing the exact thing you claim to hate?

No, of course you don't  ;D

A totally irony free zone, is our Bomber

Because when someone disagrees with you, you classify them as far right and falsely attribute claims to them that they never made at all. You've been called out on it numerous times here in the past few days.

Like the far right, you are intolerant, you deal in misinformation and you're a petty bigot. You and the far right would make comfortable bedfellows, you actually have a negative impact on whatever cause you attach yourself too as your whole approach is toxic.

If you really are against the far right then rise above the toxic level of posting and misinformation you post on here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 11:46:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 11:31:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 10:13:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 09:40:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 23, 2020, 08:57:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 08:41:56 PM
Quote from: redzone on October 23, 2020, 08:39:22 PM
https://youtu.be/sbMJoJ6i39k
Worth a listen
Took one look at that and saw the name of English far right climate change denier and disinformation peddler James Delingpole

Hmmmm

No thanks

Far right reference - check.
Is Breitbart far right, mate?

Couldn't tell you.

You have a lot in common with the far right yourself though.

How would you know, given that you claim to not know what the best known far right website in the world is?

Given that you claim to hate people being wrongly branded as far right - which nobody has ever given an example of me doing - don't you see then irony in turning around and doing the exact thing you claim to hate?

No, of course you don't  ;D

A totally irony free zone, is our Bomber

Because when someone disagrees with you, you classify them as far right and falsely attribute claims to them that they never made at all. You've been called out on it numerous times here in the past few days.

Like the far right, you are intolerant, you deal in misinformation and you're a petty bigot. You and the far right would make comfortable bedfellows, you actually have a negative impact on whatever cause you attach yourself too as your whole approach is toxic.

If you really are against the far right then rise above the toxic level of posting and misinformation you post on here.
Really

Can you give me an example of where I've incorrectly branded somebody as far right?

You did the exact thing you claim to be complaining about there in your last post - you ludicrously branded me far right - but you didn't get the irony of that!  ;D

Now you're again lashing into the personal abuse because you're losing the argument

I find it sad and unintentionally funny more than anything that you resort to such

You're great at giving it but absolutely terrible at taking it, and by "it" I mean when somebody makes a reasonable point - you just fly off the handle and abuse them

A total hypocrite who can't be taken remotely seriously

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 24, 2020, 12:17:26 AM
Why always me?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 24, 2020, 11:09:45 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 04:23:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2020, 02:04:04 PM
What ever happened to Syferus? he was a decent buddy, good at debating, reasoning and so on
Whatever you say.
He's destroying stolen-sheep these days with non stop diatribes against the GAA for causing Covid outbreaks , for playing games in the middle of "a century defining pandemic".
And he now tells us that Armagh hasn't been in Ireland since 1921.

Sorry I left out the smirking emoji... he was a tool
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dubh driocht on October 24, 2020, 12:26:06 PM
I thought Tony Holohan was excellent on the Late Late last night; informed, realistic but reassuring.  The 26 counties are lucky to have such leadership at this time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on October 24, 2020, 01:00:15 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54648684
Some of the reasons why we don't shut down for the flu
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 24, 2020, 01:33:48 PM
Quote from: Dubh driocht on October 24, 2020, 12:26:06 PM
I thought Tony Holohan was excellent on the Late Late last night; informed, realistic but reassuring.  The 26 counties are lucky to have such leadership at this time.
There was at least one prominent Irish "sports journalist" doing his nut online over Holohan's appearance

The same chap complains about "lack of clarity and communication"

With some cranks out there, your fecked if you do and fecked if you don't

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 24, 2020, 02:10:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 24, 2020, 01:33:48 PM
Quote from: Dubh driocht on October 24, 2020, 12:26:06 PM
I thought Tony Holohan was excellent on the Late Late last night; informed, realistic but reassuring.  The 26 counties are lucky to have such leadership at this time.
There was at least one prominent Irish "sports journalist" doing his nut online over Holohan's appearance

The same chap complains about "lack of clarity and communication"

With some cranks out there, your fecked if you do and fecked if you don't

If its who I think it is i wouldn't lose any sleep over him.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on October 25, 2020, 03:02:13 PM
Some news from here in Spain. National state of emergency declared, could go on until May 9th. National curfew of 10pm to 6am, except in the Canaries, at least for now.

Going to be a long, hard winter. At least it doesn't rain as much over here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 25, 2020, 04:21:01 PM
France have had three 40k plus positive cases 3 days now in succession.

At the peak of the "first wave" the highest daily total was 7k.....

At what multiple were first wave cases likely underreported?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 25, 2020, 04:25:42 PM
That's a multiple you can't know. Pointless trying to work it out in fairness

I think the more you test the more positive results you'll get..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 25, 2020, 04:27:40 PM
Quote from: gallsman on October 25, 2020, 03:02:13 PM
Some news from here in Spain. National state of emergency declared, could go on until May 9th. National curfew of 10pm to 6am, except in the Canaries, at least for now.

Going to be a long, hard winter. At least it doesn't rain as much over here.

Jaysus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on October 25, 2020, 04:35:24 PM
US have stopped trying to control the virus!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 25, 2020, 04:51:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 25, 2020, 04:21:01 PM
France have had three 40k plus positive cases 3 days now in succession.

At the peak of the "first wave" the highest daily total was 7k.....

At what multiple were first wave cases likely underreported?

More than any of us could imagine I would suggest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 25, 2020, 04:54:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 25, 2020, 04:25:42 PM
That's a multiple you can't know. Pointless trying to work it out in fairness

I think the more you test the more positive results you'll get..

But the first wave was far more telling in communities, hospitals overwhelmed, massive fatality rate as opposed to now.

There could be many different reasons but if you were contrasting consequences to cases, it's almost like two completely different viruses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 25, 2020, 05:01:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 25, 2020, 04:54:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 25, 2020, 04:25:42 PM
That's a multiple you can't know. Pointless trying to work it out in fairness

I think the more you test the more positive results you'll get..

But the first wave was far more telling in communities, hospitals overwhelmed, massive fatality rate as opposed to now.

There could be many different reasons but if you were contrasting consequences to cases, it's almost like two completely different viruses.

The fatalities were higher because it was a new virus that medical staff were overwhelmed with and couldn't get a handle on treating it. Nursing homes were badly prepared and ppe was non existent..

Loads of reasons as to why . Same virus better prepared younger generation getting it. I could be talking shite
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 25, 2020, 05:16:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 25, 2020, 05:01:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 25, 2020, 04:54:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 25, 2020, 04:25:42 PM
That's a multiple you can't know. Pointless trying to work it out in fairness

I think the more you test the more positive results you'll get..

But the first wave was far more telling in communities, hospitals overwhelmed, massive fatality rate as opposed to now.

There could be many different reasons but if you were contrasting consequences to cases, it's almost like two completely different viruses.

The fatalities were higher because it was a new virus that medical staff were overwhelmed with and couldn't get a handle on treating it. Nursing homes were badly prepared and ppe was non existent..

Loads of reasons as to why . Same virus better prepared younger generation getting it. I could be talking shite

Lots of potential reasons as you said.

The next 2/3 months is going to tell us a lot though. In terms of documented cases, we are seeing record numbers and it 2/3 months time we will see the consequences of those record numbers. We will see the death numbers, the demograph of those, the rates of hospitalisations, we will see the number of excess deaths etc.

And this data should decide where we go, this data should allow us to discover if lockdowns and excessive restrictions and their ramifications are causing more problems than they are solving.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 25, 2020, 06:08:02 PM
Some progress seen this week in ROI with the positivity in testing dropping from 7,3 to 6.2

Cases 7194 (301 less than last week)

Reported deaths 30 ( 3 less than last week)

In hospital 319 (44 more than last week)
In ICU 38 (5 more than this time last week)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 25, 2020, 10:42:42 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 25, 2020, 06:08:02 PM
Some progress seen this week in ROI with the positivity in testing dropping from 7,3 to 6.2

Cases 7194 (301 less than last week)

Reported deaths 30 ( 3 less than last week)

In hospital 319 (44 more than last week)
In ICU 38 (5 more than this time last week)

No such progress in the north.

33 deaths reported in the last week - up 7 from the previous week.
369 people in hospital, with 37 in ICU - these numbers have been increasing every day for over four weeks now.

A sustained levelling off in case numbers, though. Is this a genuine slow down, or has testing capacity become a limiting factor? The seven day rolling average of percentage tests coming back positive continues to rise (up to ~14-15%), this would suggest that not enough testing is going on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 26, 2020, 01:56:27 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 25, 2020, 10:42:42 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 25, 2020, 06:08:02 PM
Some progress seen this week in ROI with the positivity in testing dropping from 7,3 to 6.2

Cases 7194 (301 less than last week)

Reported deaths 30 ( 3 less than last week)

In hospital 319 (44 more than last week)
In ICU 38 (5 more than this time last week)

No such progress in the north.

33 deaths reported in the last week - up 7 from the previous week.
369 people in hospital, with 37 in ICU - these numbers have been increasing every day for over four weeks now.

A sustained levelling off in case numbers, though. Is this a genuine slow down, or has testing capacity become a limiting factor? The seven day rolling average of percentage tests coming back positive continues to rise (up to ~14-15%), this would suggest that not enough testing is going on.

A levelling off in cases, but at a level where most hospitals are full and regular work is being postponed to make space. Not a great position facing into the winter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 07:47:13 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 23, 2020, 07:06:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2020, 06:43:07 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/G3Qf7hcd/NI-covid-Oct23.png)

I live right in the middle of this mid ulster darkness and I still know/know of one person with it. It's very strange numbers.

I know of at least a dozen in mid ulster from the last fortnight. Half of cookstown is down with it. There was a wedding a few weeks ago that about 30 cases came from.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 07:57:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 06:47:58 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 05:06:32 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 04:57:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 04:38:24 PM
;D

Meanwhile another superhero of the nasty extreme right wing

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/protester-beat-activist-with-tricolour-on-plank-39660339.html

I have no time for extreme right or extreme left. In this instance I would question the presence of a far left activist in close proximity to a far right rally. Said activist was there to antagonize the right, with verbals and antifa type nonsense. I don't condone violence but It was unwise of left leaning lady to abuse right wing man. Hope Ireland doesn't turn in US with right wing proud boys and left wing BLM/ Antifa type face offs.
How telling that you victim blame a peaceful protestor rather than the fascist that assaulted her

No need to say anything more, you've already said enough about yourself

I would consider you Sid to be one of the extreme far left types.
Apparently blaming a fascist for the assaulting a peaceful protestor - not the peaceful protestor - is "far left" now

I think reasonable people can see what it is

No, calling people fascists because they have 88 in their name and didn't 100% endorse joe biden and had slight issues with him is far left.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 26, 2020, 09:58:31 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 07:47:13 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 23, 2020, 07:06:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2020, 06:43:07 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/G3Qf7hcd/NI-covid-Oct23.png)

I live right in the middle of this mid ulster darkness and I still know/know of one person with it. It's very strange numbers.

I know of at least a dozen in mid ulster from the last fortnight. Half of cookstown is down with it. There was a wedding a few weeks ago that about 30 cases came from.

I know a few more now in fairness, fully 100% confirmed. Not this my cousins cousin girlfriend stuff that you were hearing for a long time. Still not to the level the numbers are showing though. There doesn't seem to be too much happening around here these days so you'd expect the numbers to start to drop hopefully.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 26, 2020, 11:35:25 AM
https://twitter.com/JesseBlack39/status/1320689873389584385

Unacceptable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on October 26, 2020, 11:59:56 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 26, 2020, 09:58:31 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 07:47:13 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 23, 2020, 07:06:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 23, 2020, 06:43:07 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/G3Qf7hcd/NI-covid-Oct23.png)

I live right in the middle of this mid ulster darkness and I still know/know of one person with it. It's very strange numbers.

I know of at least a dozen in mid ulster from the last fortnight. Half of cookstown is down with it. There was a wedding a few weeks ago that about 30 cases came from.

I know a few more now in fairness, fully 100% confirmed. Not this my cousins cousin girlfriend stuff that you were hearing for a long time. Still not to the level the numbers are showing though. There doesn't seem to be too much happening around here these days so you'd expect the numbers to start to drop hopefully.

There are a lot of people just not saying they have it while isolating - and given there is very little interaction between people nowadays you just dont notice.

Its not as if you notice they are missing from training/underage games/pubs etc
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 26, 2020, 12:08:14 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 07:57:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 06:47:58 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 05:06:32 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 04:57:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 04:38:24 PM
;D

Meanwhile another superhero of the nasty extreme right wing

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/protester-beat-activist-with-tricolour-on-plank-39660339.html

I have no time for extreme right or extreme left. In this instance I would question the presence of a far left activist in close proximity to a far right rally. Said activist was there to antagonize the right, with verbals and antifa type nonsense. I don't condone violence but It was unwise of left leaning lady to abuse right wing man. Hope Ireland doesn't turn in US with right wing proud boys and left wing BLM/ Antifa type face offs.
How telling that you victim blame a peaceful protestor rather than the fascist that assaulted her

No need to say anything more, you've already said enough about yourself

I would consider you Sid to be one of the extreme far left types.
Apparently blaming a fascist for the assaulting a peaceful protestor - not the peaceful protestor - is "far left" now

I think reasonable people can see what it is

No, calling people fascists because they have 88 in their name and didn't 100% endorse joe biden and had slight issues with him is far left.
Or laughed at children being ripped from their parents
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 26, 2020, 12:25:18 PM
344 cases in Hospitals in the 26 with 39 in ICU.
Highest numbers since 20th May.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 12:45:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 26, 2020, 12:08:14 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 07:57:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 06:47:58 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 05:15:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 23, 2020, 05:06:32 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 23, 2020, 04:57:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 23, 2020, 04:38:24 PM
;D

Meanwhile another superhero of the nasty extreme right wing

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/protester-beat-activist-with-tricolour-on-plank-39660339.html

I have no time for extreme right or extreme left. In this instance I would question the presence of a far left activist in close proximity to a far right rally. Said activist was there to antagonize the right, with verbals and antifa type nonsense. I don't condone violence but It was unwise of left leaning lady to abuse right wing man. Hope Ireland doesn't turn in US with right wing proud boys and left wing BLM/ Antifa type face offs.
How telling that you victim blame a peaceful protestor rather than the fascist that assaulted her

No need to say anything more, you've already said enough about yourself

I would consider you Sid to be one of the extreme far left types.
Apparently blaming a fascist for the assaulting a peaceful protestor - not the peaceful protestor - is "far left" now

I think reasonable people can see what it is

No, calling people fascists because they have 88 in their name and didn't 100% endorse joe biden and had slight issues with him is far left.
Or laughed at children being ripped from their parents

Who laughed?!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 12:53:22 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 12:45:03 PM

Who laughed?!

And he won't be able to back this up, this narcissist comes from the school of Trump or Johnston, keep repeating lies over and over, with ever more conviction and someone might believe them.  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 26, 2020, 01:15:36 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-54687533

Another example of China getting it done.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 26, 2020, 01:22:01 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 26, 2020, 01:15:36 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-54687533

Another example of China getting it done.

It's a lot handier when they're all in concentration camp.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 26, 2020, 01:49:32 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 26, 2020, 01:22:01 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 26, 2020, 01:15:36 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-54687533

Another example of China getting it done.

It's a lot handier when they're all in concentration camp.

And does it not strike you a tad bit strange that the Chinese subject their sub humans to more testing than any Western country to date?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 01:55:27 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 12:53:22 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 12:45:03 PM

Who laughed?!

And he won't be able to back this up, this narcissist comes from the school of Trump or Johnston, keep repeating lies over and over, with ever more conviction and someone might believe them.  ::)

It much be such a miserable existence coming on the Internet everyday to get on like that. I just don't get it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 01:56:01 PM
More than 2.8m tests had been conducted in Kashgar by Sunday afternoon and the rest will be completed within two days, according to city officials.

Like what the f**k is wrong with doing massive tests like that here?

In a couple of days the whole of Ireland could be tested and those that test positive isolate ta feck!! along with their family!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on October 26, 2020, 01:59:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 01:56:01 PM
More than 2.8m tests had been conducted in Kashgar by Sunday afternoon and the rest will be completed within two days, according to city officials.

Like what the f**k is wrong with doing massive tests like that here?

In a couple of days the whole of Ireland could be tested and those that test positive isolate ta feck!! along with their family!

Facilities and staffing levels are just a couple of reasons that can't be done here. China built a hospital in a week to deal with Covid 19 cases. How many other countries could do that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 02:11:41 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on October 26, 2020, 01:59:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 01:56:01 PM
More than 2.8m tests had been conducted in Kashgar by Sunday afternoon and the rest will be completed within two days, according to city officials.

Like what the f**k is wrong with doing massive tests like that here?

In a couple of days the whole of Ireland could be tested and those that test positive isolate ta feck!! along with their family!

Facilities and staffing levels are just a couple of reasons that can't be done here. China built a hospital in a week to deal with Covid 19 cases. How many other countries could do that?

A lot of covid testing has been done at home or in the drive through, plus its done by the patient themselves! Boxed and posted or handed back to staff at the drive through..

So its down to cost, We've had 8 months of this carry on, how much has it cost to keep doing what we are doing? Mass testing in the long run will bring down the cases and cost us less in the long run! Anyone that tests positive must put the app on their phone so track where they go during the 2 weeks and fine them if they leave the house...

Either we want it to go away or we don't.. And we don't need to build a hospital in a week, just test everyone
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 02:22:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 01:56:01 PM
More than 2.8m tests had been conducted in Kashgar by Sunday afternoon and the rest will be completed within two days, according to city officials.

Like what the f**k is wrong with doing massive tests like that here?

In a couple of days the whole of Ireland could be tested and those that test positive isolate ta feck!! along with their family!

And as soon as one is tested, and hour later they could get it, so how often is one to get tested, daily, weekly, monthly?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 02:23:40 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 02:22:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 01:56:01 PM
More than 2.8m tests had been conducted in Kashgar by Sunday afternoon and the rest will be completed within two days, according to city officials.

Like what the f**k is wrong with doing massive tests like that here?

In a couple of days the whole of Ireland could be tested and those that test positive isolate ta feck!! along with their family!

And as soon as one is tested, and hour later they could get it, so how often is one to get tested, daily, weekly, monthly?

So you don't think mass testing is a good idea?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 02:23:40 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 02:22:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 01:56:01 PM
More than 2.8m tests had been conducted in Kashgar by Sunday afternoon and the rest will be completed within two days, according to city officials.

Like what the f**k is wrong with doing massive tests like that here?

In a couple of days the whole of Ireland could be tested and those that test positive isolate ta feck!! along with their family!

And as soon as one is tested, and hour later they could get it, so how often is one to get tested, daily, weekly, monthly?

So you don't think mass testing is a good idea?

Quare place this, everyone put words in others mouths, or just makes up lies.  I was making the point if you are negative, you are only negative the moment the swab leaves your throat, just walking away you could get it, so how often should one get tested, daily, weekly, monthly?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 26, 2020, 02:28:04 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 02:22:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 01:56:01 PM
More than 2.8m tests had been conducted in Kashgar by Sunday afternoon and the rest will be completed within two days, according to city officials.

Like what the f**k is wrong with doing massive tests like that here?

In a couple of days the whole of Ireland could be tested and those that test positive isolate ta feck!! along with their family!

And as soon as one is tested, and hour later they could get it, so how often is one to get tested, daily, weekly, monthly?


You do mass testing to see where you are at. It nails asymptomatic cases and closes the net as opposed to what we are doing here which is moving one finger to stop the water dripping out whilst another leak forms....

So to broadly speak, mass testing over 2 or 3 days. You get your result....no Covid, great. Go about your daily life as normal. If you have it, no ifs or buts. You just have to suck it up and do the 2 weeks. That.....very basically is how they stamped it out in China to the extent those pictures of the pool parties were doing the rounds there awhile ago.

Would most people not be in favour of an actual direction as opposed to this nonsense here we insist of "circuit breakers" to basically buy time and hope for the best? The only real reason I can think of why they are doing this series of lockdowns is because they must be fairly confident in the vaccine in the coming months (which I hope is the reason of course).

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 02:30:13 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 02:23:40 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 02:22:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 01:56:01 PM
More than 2.8m tests had been conducted in Kashgar by Sunday afternoon and the rest will be completed within two days, according to city officials.

Like what the f**k is wrong with doing massive tests like that here?

In a couple of days the whole of Ireland could be tested and those that test positive isolate ta feck!! along with their family!

And as soon as one is tested, and hour later they could get it, so how often is one to get tested, daily, weekly, monthly?

So you don't think mass testing is a good idea?

Quare place this, everyone put words in others mouths, or just makes up lies.  I was making the point if you are negative, you are only negative the moment the swab leaves your throat, just walking away you could get it, so how often should one get tested, daily, weekly, monthly?

So is that an answer or did you just give me another question? Where did the lies bit come from?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 02:34:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 02:30:13 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 02:23:40 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 02:22:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 01:56:01 PM
More than 2.8m tests had been conducted in Kashgar by Sunday afternoon and the rest will be completed within two days, according to city officials.

Like what the f**k is wrong with doing massive tests like that here?

In a couple of days the whole of Ireland could be tested and those that test positive isolate ta feck!! along with their family!

And as soon as one is tested, and hour later they could get it, so how often is one to get tested, daily, weekly, monthly?

So you don't think mass testing is a good idea?

Quare place this, everyone put words in others mouths, or just makes up lies.  I was making the point if you are negative, you are only negative the moment the swab leaves your throat, just walking away you could get it, so how often should one get tested, daily, weekly, monthly?

So is that an answer or did you just give me another question? Where did the lies bit come from?

Did you not give me another question, in relation to my question?  ::)  The lies are everywhere, some folk on here seriously think they have a contribution to make.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 02:40:57 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 02:34:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 02:30:13 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 02:27:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 02:23:40 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 02:22:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 01:56:01 PM
More than 2.8m tests had been conducted in Kashgar by Sunday afternoon and the rest will be completed within two days, according to city officials.

Like what the f**k is wrong with doing massive tests like that here?

In a couple of days the whole of Ireland could be tested and those that test positive isolate ta feck!! along with their family!

And as soon as one is tested, and hour later they could get it, so how often is one to get tested, daily, weekly, monthly?

So you don't think mass testing is a good idea?

Quare place this, everyone put words in others mouths, or just makes up lies.  I was making the point if you are negative, you are only negative the moment the swab leaves your throat, just walking away you could get it, so how often should one get tested, daily, weekly, monthly?

So is that an answer or did you just give me another question? Where did the lies bit come from?

Did you not give me another question, in relation to my question?  ::)  The lies are everywhere, some folk on here seriously think they have a contribution to make.

To answer your question.... The person gets tested goes home or he's at home with the home testing kit, he stays there until he's given the result. If he's driven to the place then he'll be alone or if he's had to go with someone they'll get tested too.

Now, maybe you can answer me now, is mass testing not a good idea? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 02:47:22 PM
Yes it is, but it won't happen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 02:49:16 PM
The question still remains when he or she is given the negative result, he or she could walk out the door and get it, so do you get tested weekly?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 02:55:06 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 02:49:16 PM
The question still remains when he or she is given the negative result, he or she could walk out the door and get it, so do you get tested weekly?

No if they are given a negative result they stay in as they will need to wait until all the results are given, that's why its got to be mass testing so everyone is getting tested in mass, otherwise it wouldn't be mass testing and we'd be doing what we are just doing now, and that be daft.

so no getting tested weekly, just have the app and make sure the track and trace system is working!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 03:02:43 PM
Ok so essentially a 3 / 4 day total lockdown instead of these mad 2 week lockdown rolling on, in theory it is a sound plan.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on October 26, 2020, 03:37:47 PM
Mass testing is good in theory to find out who's infected and narrow down the spread.

But it's not worth a fiddlers if the air and sea ports are still open, with no mandatory quarantine or testing in place for people entering the entire island of Ireland.  That's basically what's happening in NZ and Australia - but how could that be applied here with the amount of people that need to travel to england etc every week for work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 26, 2020, 03:55:02 PM
FFS, lads. China can mass test 4.7 million people in a few days because China is f**king massive with virtually limitless resources.

There are 1,393 million people in China.
There are 6.8 million people in Ireland.

Proportionally, what China is doing is like Ireland testing the whole of Omagh or Mullingar over a few days. It could be done, but unlike in China, COVID is everywhere here so there's no point focussing all your attention on one town.

This mass testing idea is just naive nonsense with our current available resources.

And, even if in a parallel universe, where testing everyone was possible - what's the point? Huge numbers are currently running around in the full knowledge that they have the virus and don't give a shite. These selfish pricks would just reinfect the populace as quick as you thought you had a handle on things.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 04:21:37 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 26, 2020, 03:55:02 PM
FFS, lads. China can mass test 4.7 million people in a few days because China is f**king massive with virtually limitless resources.

There are 1,393 million people in China.
There are 6.8 million people in Ireland.

Proportionally, what China is doing is like Ireland testing the whole of Omagh or Mullingar over a few days. It could be done, but unlike in China, COVID is everywhere here so there's no point focussing all your attention on one town.

This mass testing idea is just naive nonsense with our current available resources.

And, even if in a parallel universe, where testing everyone was possible - what's the point? Huge numbers are currently running around in the full knowledge that they have the virus and don't give a shite. These selfish pricks would just reinfect the populace as quick as you thought you had a handle on things.

I know the logistics is crazy and comparing is stupid but, and its a big but, surely the money spent and lost up to now would have been better spent at mass testing? if we need to quarantine areas  then do that, we'll get nowhere at the minute based on what you have said with the selfish pricks that go about not giving a shit!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 26, 2020, 04:30:52 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 26, 2020, 03:55:02 PM
FFS, lads. China can mass test 4.7 million people in a few days because China is f**king massive with virtually limitless resources.

There are 1,393 million people in China.
There are 6.8 million people in Ireland.

Proportionally, what China is doing is like Ireland testing the whole of Omagh or Mullingar over a few days. It could be done, but unlike in China, COVID is everywhere here so there's no point focussing all your attention on one town.

This mass testing idea is just naive nonsense with our current available resources.

And, even if in a parallel universe, where testing everyone was possible - what's the point? Huge numbers are currently running around in the full knowledge that they have the virus and don't give a shite. These selfish pricks would just reinfect the populace as quick as you thought you had a handle on things.

It's fair to say China has a slight advantage when it comes to getting the population to comply.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 04:37:00 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 26, 2020, 04:30:52 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 26, 2020, 03:55:02 PM
FFS, lads. China can mass test 4.7 million people in a few days because China is f**king massive with virtually limitless resources.

There are 1,393 million people in China.
There are 6.8 million people in Ireland.

Proportionally, what China is doing is like Ireland testing the whole of Omagh or Mullingar over a few days. It could be done, but unlike in China, COVID is everywhere here so there's no point focussing all your attention on one town.

This mass testing idea is just naive nonsense with our current available resources.

And, even if in a parallel universe, where testing everyone was possible - what's the point? Huge numbers are currently running around in the full knowledge that they have the virus and don't give a shite. These selfish pricks would just reinfect the populace as quick as you thought you had a handle on things.

It's fair to say China has a slight advantage when it comes to getting the population to comply.

So true! I'm looking out the window at work and at times ya wanna head out and put your toe right through people!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 26, 2020, 05:38:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 26, 2020, 12:25:18 PM
344 cases in Hospitals in the 26 with 39 in ICU.
Highest numbers since 20th May.

Pretty much the same number 342 in the 6 counties, which is significantly more than the previous 8 April peak of 322.
Antrim hospital has pretty much closed its A&E as it is over capacity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 26, 2020, 06:05:21 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 01:55:27 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 12:53:22 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 12:45:03 PM

Who laughed?!

And he won't be able to back this up, this narcissist comes from the school of Trump or Johnston, keep repeating lies over and over, with ever more conviction and someone might believe them.  ::)

It much be such a miserable existence coming on the Internet everyday to get on like that. I just don't get it.
I'd say it's lot more miserable of an existence when one is laughing at children being ripped from their parents' arms
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 26, 2020, 06:09:50 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 26, 2020, 03:55:02 PM
FFS, lads. China can mass test 4.7 million people in a few days because China is f**king massive with virtually limitless resources.

There are 1,393 million people in China.
There are 6.8 million people in Ireland.

Proportionally, what China is doing is like Ireland testing the whole of Omagh or Mullingar over a few days. It could be done, but unlike in China, COVID is everywhere here so there's no point focussing all your attention on one town.

This mass testing idea is just naive nonsense with our current available resources.

And, even if in a parallel universe, where testing everyone was possible - what's the point? Huge numbers are currently running around in the full knowledge that they have the virus and don't give a shite. These selfish pricks would just reinfect the populace as quick as you thought you had a handle on things.

Slovakia are going to do it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 26, 2020, 09:38:17 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 26, 2020, 03:55:02 PM
And, even if in a parallel universe, where testing everyone was possible - what's the point? Huge numbers are currently running around in the full knowledge that they have the virus and don't give a shite. These selfish pricks would just reinfect the populace as quick as you thought you had a handle on things.

This mass testing would be best done when cases had been reduced after lockdown. Then test everyone and then take no nonsense about the need to isolate for those people indicated positive. Get a few nice hotels, with good food, fast Internet, and free Netflix and require people to spend their time there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on October 26, 2020, 09:54:25 PM
So we are down to 2 ICU beds here in the North, 1 in SWA and 1 in Causeway coast.

There are 108 in total, 60 occupied by non-Covid, 39 by Covid cases, leaving 9 empty. However 6 of those are Paediatric and 1 in specialist cardiac.

We have had a trickle of deaths when we have the capacity and learned knowledge. Let it rip, eh.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 26, 2020, 10:02:24 PM
Is that with or without nightingale?

It's getting bad - really bad. Antrim closing doors in emergency department not a good sign. Even if lockdown works you'd expect another week or two of hospital numbers growing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 26, 2020, 11:30:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 26, 2020, 06:09:50 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 26, 2020, 03:55:02 PM
FFS, lads. China can mass test 4.7 million people in a few days because China is f**king massive with virtually limitless resources.

There are 1,393 million people in China.
There are 6.8 million people in Ireland.

Proportionally, what China is doing is like Ireland testing the whole of Omagh or Mullingar over a few days. It could be done, but unlike in China, COVID is everywhere here so there's no point focussing all your attention on one town.

This mass testing idea is just naive nonsense with our current available resources.

And, even if in a parallel universe, where testing everyone was possible - what's the point? Huge numbers are currently running around in the full knowledge that they have the virus and don't give a shite. These selfish pricks would just reinfect the populace as quick as you thought you had a handle on things.

Slovakia are going to do it.

They're not really.

China's mass testing uses PCR. It will be reliable, but they are presumably pulling in lab and staffing capacity from all over their massive country to make this happen.

Slovakia are using volunteers to roll out some rapid antigen tests, none of which have been proven to be very reliable. A lot of countries had a look at these earlier in the year and decided they weren't worth the effort.

From what I've read online, many in Slovakia seem to be dismissing the exercise as a PR stunt pulled to mask some big failings in other areas. No COVID app, no track & trace worth talking about, insufficient lab testing capacity, etc.

Maybe what Slovakia are doing will help their situation, but it's not really testing as we've come to understand it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 11:41:13 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 26, 2020, 11:30:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 26, 2020, 06:09:50 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 26, 2020, 03:55:02 PM
FFS, lads. China can mass test 4.7 million people in a few days because China is f**king massive with virtually limitless resources.

There are 1,393 million people in China.
There are 6.8 million people in Ireland.

Proportionally, what China is doing is like Ireland testing the whole of Omagh or Mullingar over a few days. It could be done, but unlike in China, COVID is everywhere here so there's no point focussing all your attention on one town.

This mass testing idea is just naive nonsense with our current available resources.

And, even if in a parallel universe, where testing everyone was possible - what's the point? Huge numbers are currently running around in the full knowledge that they have the virus and don't give a shite. These selfish pricks would just reinfect the populace as quick as you thought you had a handle on things.

Slovakia are going to do it.

They're not really.

China's mass testing uses PCR. It will be reliable, but they are presumably pulling in lab and staffing capacity from all over their massive country to make this happen.

Slovakia are using volunteers to roll out some rapid antigen tests, none of which have been proven to be very reliable. A lot of countries had a look at these earlier in the year and decided they weren't worth the effort.

From what I've read online, many in Slovakia seem to be dismissing the exercise as a PR stunt pulled to mask some big failings in other areas. No COVID app, no track & trace worth talking about, insufficient lab testing capacity, etc.

Maybe what Slovakia are doing will help their situation, but it's not really testing as we've come to understand it.

Well the numbers here in the north are getting out of control, whatever we are doing (Nothing) doesn't seem to be bringing the numbers down. The government here is a pile of dung, with absolutely no balls to make a decision that may hurt their vote!

Playing politics with peoples lives.

For a civilised first world part of Europe we've a third world approach
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 11:48:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 26, 2020, 06:05:21 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 01:55:27 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 26, 2020, 12:53:22 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 12:45:03 PM

Who laughed?!

And he won't be able to back this up, this narcissist comes from the school of Trump or Johnston, keep repeating lies over and over, with ever more conviction and someone might believe them.  ::)

It much be such a miserable existence coming on the Internet everyday to get on like that. I just don't get it.
I'd say it's lot more miserable of an existence when one is laughing at children being ripped from their parents' arms

Again, who laughed? What are you talking about???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 27, 2020, 01:13:07 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 26, 2020, 10:02:24 PM
Is that with or without nightingale?

It's getting bad - really bad. Antrim closing doors in emergency department not a good sign. Even if lockdown works you'd expect another week or two of hospital numbers growing.

Nightingale will help keep ill but not critical Covid patients away from other patients, if it can be staffed, of course.
In the 6 counties, numbers have declined signficantly in Derry, from a very high level, have gone down slightly in Belfast, but are up in most other districts. The overall number is down a bit since Derry and Belfast have more people.

In April they sent some patients to England, but things are not great in many parts there. There is talk of sending some patients to the South, which might be possible for a few patients, but not very many.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 08:10:39 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 11:48:25 PM

Again, who laughed? What are you talking about???

Best ignoring him he is a pathological liar, makes everything about the person rather than the discussion, has abused folk over and over and yet cries foul when he is caught out - which let's be honest isn't a hard thing to do.  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 27, 2020, 09:33:36 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 08:10:39 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 26, 2020, 11:48:25 PM

Again, who laughed? What are you talking about???

Best ignoring him he is a pathological liar, makes everything about the person rather than the discussion, has abused folk over and over and yet cries foul when he is caught out - which let's be honest isn't a hard thing to do.  ;D
I laughed at this

Birds of a feather flock together
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 09:38:30 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 26, 2020, 11:30:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 26, 2020, 06:09:50 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 26, 2020, 03:55:02 PM
FFS, lads. China can mass test 4.7 million people in a few days because China is f**king massive with virtually limitless resources.

There are 1,393 million people in China.
There are 6.8 million people in Ireland.

Proportionally, what China is doing is like Ireland testing the whole of Omagh or Mullingar over a few days. It could be done, but unlike in China, COVID is everywhere here so there's no point focussing all your attention on one town.

This mass testing idea is just naive nonsense with our current available resources.

And, even if in a parallel universe, where testing everyone was possible - what's the point? Huge numbers are currently running around in the full knowledge that they have the virus and don't give a shite. These selfish pricks would just reinfect the populace as quick as you thought you had a handle on things.

Slovakia are going to do it.

They're not really.

China's mass testing uses PCR. It will be reliable, but they are presumably pulling in lab and staffing capacity from all over their massive country to make this happen.

Slovakia are using volunteers to roll out some rapid antigen tests, none of which have been proven to be very reliable. A lot of countries had a look at these earlier in the year and decided they weren't worth the effort.

From what I've read online, many in Slovakia seem to be dismissing the exercise as a PR stunt pulled to mask some big failings in other areas. No COVID app, no track & trace worth talking about, insufficient lab testing capacity, etc.

Maybe what Slovakia are doing will help their situation, but it's not really testing as we've come to understand it.

It' mass testing whatever way you look at it.

They're trying to do something under than lockdowns to manage and best of luck to them, let's see how they get on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 27, 2020, 09:50:48 AM
I see the crank of choice for the Covid deniers, Dr. Martin Feely, lied outright in his latest Irish Times article (he's being silenced, doncha know, writing very prominent articles in the Irish Times as he is)

This is a thorough demolition of Dr. Feely's "talking points"

----------------

https://twitter.com/andrewflood/status/1320762629229629440

Yesterday the @IrishTimes again published a #Covid19 piece that had not been fact checked. Piece by Martin Feely suggests the WHO had put forward a mortality of 0.1386%. This is untrue & this false claim was already directly addressed by WHO Oct 12th /1

Quotehttps://twitter.com/andrewflood/status/1315997403762262016

There been a lot of misleading claims that the WHO suggested a low IFR for #Covid19 When specifically asked about that Oct 12th WHO says research converges at an IFR of 0.6% full segment at 19.27

The piece then refers to a a paper by "research expert Dr J Ioannidis which reports an overall Case Fatality Rate of 0.27%". But Ioannidis paper gave an IFR not CFR estimate of 0.27%, this is a significant error in itself as well as providing two contradictory estimates /2

WHO says IFR research converges on an IFR of 0.6% so both Martin's claims are misleading.  The WHO bulletin is not a policy statement but collects research of interest, presumably the Ioannidis paper was interesting for being an outlier with low IFR but about that.. /3

Ioannidis is somewhat infamous for claiming early in the pandemic that IFR was 0.02-0.04%, about 1/10th of the current claim.  He's one of a number of media savvy researchers who got a lot of airtime because their low IFR estimates aligned with business interests /4

His latest study still has an IFR less than half of the 0.6% the WHO says other research is converging on.  The reason appears to be because of the way he selected what research he included and excluded in this review as detailed in this thread /5

All this is very complex which is all the more why the responsibility is on the so called paper of record to fact check pieces like this.  It is not at all reasonable to expect the average reader to be able to do so, indeed the reader is not warned this hasn't been done /6


Martin opens with an ironic in the light of the above warning that much commentary is based on a "lack of understanding of Covid realities". Yet he goes on to question why cases are an important metric despite the very simple reality that they tell you how many are infectious /7

Cases also indicate how many people will be hospitalised in the future, will need ICU & perhaps most importantly how many will die.  There is a very long lag between cases and deaths so a basic reality is that waiting for deaths to alert you would doom you to many many more /8

It's only 3-4 weeks after Leo suggested copying the 'cases don't really matter' approach Belgium had adopted but now the butchers bill for doing so has started to become clear  as Belgium hits ICU number beyond what our public system has /9

QuoteDividing by 2.3 the (Belgian) numbers in Ireland would mean
2100 in hospital, 185 new yesterday
330 in ICU, 21 new yesterday
5400 daily new infection
18 daily deaths

Martin, after warning abt scaremongering goes on to undermine hope that vaccine is on the way or that it could make much of a difference. In fact vaccine findings are expected in the next 2-3 months with very large quantities already under production /10

He then misrepresents WHO again by claiming they say lockdowns don't work.  This isn't correct, they correctly say they should be a last resort & the sort of testing to discover cases that Martin don't understand, along with the measures he opposes are 1st line of defence /11

He says "The number admitted to hospital in Dublin increased slightly over the past 4 weeks" when in fact over the last month those in hospital with Covid have increased a not very slight 350%. Again surely a claim that should have been fact checked by
@IrishTimes
/12

He then again confuses CFR & IFR in the conclusion referring to a CFR for flu in 2018 that at 2.14% was "almost 10-fold higher than for Covid-19". The CFR for Covid in Ireland is not 0.214 but 3.3% - again fact checking should have picked this up /13

The only reason the 2018 flu has a CFR of 2.14% is precisely because unlike Covid only the sick were tested for it. If the same was applied to Covid19 the CFR in Ireland would be around 15-20%, it is lower only because those cases Martin didn't want counted are  /14

Martin's article is an example of sunk costs fallacy, once someone takes a bad position they tend to dig further into it. That's his excuse but there really isn't an excuse for the last of fact checking by the Irish Times, and not for the first time

The media have taken a similar infotainment approach on #Covid19 as they have to Climate Change.  Instead of providing representative fact checked explainers of the science to enable public understanding they present this sort of debate with outlier positions for clicks /16

It doesn't even reflect the publics position, polls show that runs between 4 and 6 to 1 in favour of the restrictions. Creating an impression of a 50:50 debate only makes sense if you are a business lobbyist valuing profit over lives /17
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 10:08:29 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2020, 09:50:48 AM
I see the crank of choice for the Covid deniers, Dr. Martin Feely, lied outright in his latest Irish Times article (he's being silenced, doncha know, writing very prominent articles in the Irish Times as he is)

This is a thorough demolition of Dr. Feely's "talking points"

----------------

https://twitter.com/andrewflood/status/1320762629229629440

Yesterday the @IrishTimes again published a #Covid19 piece that had not been fact checked. Piece by Martin Feely suggests the WHO had put forward a mortality of 0.1386%. This is untrue & this false claim was already directly addressed by WHO Oct 12th /1

Quotehttps://twitter.com/andrewflood/status/1315997403762262016

There been a lot of misleading claims that the WHO suggested a low IFR for #Covid19 When specifically asked about that Oct 12th WHO says research converges at an IFR of 0.6% full segment at 19.27

The piece then refers to a a paper by "research expert Dr J Ioannidis which reports an overall Case Fatality Rate of 0.27%". But Ioannidis paper gave an IFR not CFR estimate of 0.27%, this is a significant error in itself as well as providing two contradictory estimates /2

WHO says IFR research converges on an IFR of 0.6% so both Martin's claims are misleading.  The WHO bulletin is not a policy statement but collects research of interest, presumably the Ioannidis paper was interesting for being an outlier with low IFR but about that.. /3

Ioannidis is somewhat infamous for claiming early in the pandemic that IFR was 0.02-0.04%, about 1/10th of the current claim.  He's one of a number of media savvy researchers who got a lot of airtime because their low IFR estimates aligned with business interests /4

His latest study still has an IFR less than half of the 0.6% the WHO says other research is converging on.  The reason appears to be because of the way he selected what research he included and excluded in this review as detailed in this thread /5

All this is very complex which is all the more why the responsibility is on the so called paper of record to fact check pieces like this.  It is not at all reasonable to expect the average reader to be able to do so, indeed the reader is not warned this hasn't been done /6


Martin opens with an ironic in the light of the above warning that much commentary is based on a "lack of understanding of Covid realities". Yet he goes on to question why cases are an important metric despite the very simple reality that they tell you how many are infectious /7

Cases also indicate how many people will be hospitalised in the future, will need ICU & perhaps most importantly how many will die.  There is a very long lag between cases and deaths so a basic reality is that waiting for deaths to alert you would doom you to many many more /8

It's only 3-4 weeks after Leo suggested copying the 'cases don't really matter' approach Belgium had adopted but now the butchers bill for doing so has started to become clear  as Belgium hits ICU number beyond what our public system has /9

QuoteDividing by 2.3 the (Belgian) numbers in Ireland would mean
2100 in hospital, 185 new yesterday
330 in ICU, 21 new yesterday
5400 daily new infection
18 daily deaths

Martin, after warning abt scaremongering goes on to undermine hope that vaccine is on the way or that it could make much of a difference. In fact vaccine findings are expected in the next 2-3 months with very large quantities already under production /10

He then misrepresents WHO again by claiming they say lockdowns don't work.  This isn't correct, they correctly say they should be a last resort & the sort of testing to discover cases that Martin don't understand, along with the measures he opposes are 1st line of defence /11

He says "The number admitted to hospital in Dublin increased slightly over the past 4 weeks" when in fact over the last month those in hospital with Covid have increased a not very slight 350%. Again surely a claim that should have been fact checked by
@IrishTimes
/12

He then again confuses CFR & IFR in the conclusion referring to a CFR for flu in 2018 that at 2.14% was "almost 10-fold higher than for Covid-19". The CFR for Covid in Ireland is not 0.214 but 3.3% - again fact checking should have picked this up /13

The only reason the 2018 flu has a CFR of 2.14% is precisely because unlike Covid only the sick were tested for it. If the same was applied to Covid19 the CFR in Ireland would be around 15-20%, it is lower only because those cases Martin didn't want counted are  /14

Martin's article is an example of sunk costs fallacy, once someone takes a bad position they tend to dig further into it. That's his excuse but there really isn't an excuse for the last of fact checking by the Irish Times, and not for the first time

The media have taken a similar infotainment approach on #Covid19 as they have to Climate Change.  Instead of providing representative fact checked explainers of the science to enable public understanding they present this sort of debate with outlier positions for clicks /16

It doesn't even reflect the publics position, polls show that runs between 4 and 6 to 1 in favour of the restrictions. Creating an impression of a 50:50 debate only makes sense if you are a business lobbyist valuing profit over lives /17

That seems to be a very emotional response that doesn't really have substance to it.

Dr Feely's original take was much more grounded and rational.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 27, 2020, 10:16:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 11:41:13 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 26, 2020, 11:30:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 26, 2020, 06:09:50 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 26, 2020, 03:55:02 PM
FFS, lads. China can mass test 4.7 million people in a few days because China is f**king massive with virtually limitless resources.

There are 1,393 million people in China.
There are 6.8 million people in Ireland.

Proportionally, what China is doing is like Ireland testing the whole of Omagh or Mullingar over a few days. It could be done, but unlike in China, COVID is everywhere here so there's no point focussing all your attention on one town.

This mass testing idea is just naive nonsense with our current available resources.

And, even if in a parallel universe, where testing everyone was possible - what's the point? Huge numbers are currently running around in the full knowledge that they have the virus and don't give a shite. These selfish pricks would just reinfect the populace as quick as you thought you had a handle on things.

Slovakia are going to do it.

They're not really.

China's mass testing uses PCR. It will be reliable, but they are presumably pulling in lab and staffing capacity from all over their massive country to make this happen.

Slovakia are using volunteers to roll out some rapid antigen tests, none of which have been proven to be very reliable. A lot of countries had a look at these earlier in the year and decided they weren't worth the effort.

From what I've read online, many in Slovakia seem to be dismissing the exercise as a PR stunt pulled to mask some big failings in other areas. No COVID app, no track & trace worth talking about, insufficient lab testing capacity, etc.

Maybe what Slovakia are doing will help their situation, but it's not really testing as we've come to understand it.

Well the numbers here in the north are getting out of control, whatever we are doing (Nothing) doesn't seem to be bringing the numbers down. The government here is a pile of dung, with absolutely no balls to make a decision that may hurt their vote!

Playing politics with peoples lives.

For a civilised first world part of Europe we've a third world approach

There's 2 consecutive mistakes in your last sentence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 27, 2020, 10:21:15 AM
So much for herd immunity

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54696873?xtor=AL-72-%5Bpartner%5D-%5Bbbc.news.twitter%5D-%5Bheadline%5D-%5Bnews%5D-%5Bbizdev%5D-%5Bisapi%5D&at_custom2=twitter&at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D&at_medium=custom7&at_campaign=64&at_custom3=%40BBCNews&at_custom4=8797F224-17E8-11EB-BB47-45F04744363C

Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection'
By James Gallagher
Health and science correspondent

Levels of protective antibodies in people wane "quite rapidly" after coronavirus infection, say researchers.

Antibodies are a key part of our immune defences and stop the virus from getting inside the body's cells.

The Imperial College London team found the number of people testing positive for antibodies has fallen by 26% between June and September.

They say immunity appears to be fading and there is a risk of catching the virus multiple times.

More than 350,000 people in England have taken an antibody test as part of the REACT-2 study so far.

In the first round of testing, at the end of June and the beginning of July, about 60 in 1,000 people had detectable antibodies.

But in the latest set of tests, in September, only 44 per 1,000 people were positive.

It suggests the number of people with antibodies fell by more than a quarter between summer and autumn.

"Immunity is waning quite rapidly, we're only three months after our first [round of tests] and we're already showing a 26% decline in antibodies," said Prof Helen Ward, one of the researchers.

The fall was greater in those over 65, compared with younger age groups, and in those without symptoms compared with those with full-blown Covid-19.

The number of healthcare workers with antibodies remained relatively high, which the researchers suggest may be due to regular exposure to the virus.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 27, 2020, 10:55:38 AM
Very, very few cases of people catching it twice however.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 10:57:14 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 27, 2020, 10:55:38 AM
Very, very few cases of people catching it twice however.

Think there was 5 known cases.. which considering the amount that have caught it is extremely low
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 27, 2020, 11:12:30 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2020, 10:21:15 AM
So much for herd immunity

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54696873?xtor=AL-72-%5Bpartner%5D-%5Bbbc.news.twitter%5D-%5Bheadline%5D-%5Bnews%5D-%5Bbizdev%5D-%5Bisapi%5D&at_custom2=twitter&at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D&at_medium=custom7&at_campaign=64&at_custom3=%40BBCNews&at_custom4=8797F224-17E8-11EB-BB47-45F04744363C

Covid: Antibodies 'fall rapidly after infection'
By James Gallagher
Health and science correspondent

Levels of protective antibodies in people wane "quite rapidly" after coronavirus infection, say researchers.

Antibodies are a key part of our immune defences and stop the virus from getting inside the body's cells.

The Imperial College London team found the number of people testing positive for antibodies has fallen by 26% between June and September.

They say immunity appears to be fading and there is a risk of catching the virus multiple times.

More than 350,000 people in England have taken an antibody test as part of the REACT-2 study so far.

In the first round of testing, at the end of June and the beginning of July, about 60 in 1,000 people had detectable antibodies.

But in the latest set of tests, in September, only 44 per 1,000 people were positive.

It suggests the number of people with antibodies fell by more than a quarter between summer and autumn.

"Immunity is waning quite rapidly, we're only three months after our first [round of tests] and we're already showing a 26% decline in antibodies," said Prof Helen Ward, one of the researchers.

The fall was greater in those over 65, compared with younger age groups, and in those without symptoms compared with those with full-blown Covid-19.

The number of healthcare workers with antibodies remained relatively high, which the researchers suggest may be due to regular exposure to the virus.

It will be another headline tomorrow
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on October 27, 2020, 11:32:48 AM
A lot of one off studies make the headlines and a lot of people taking their absolute truth from them if it fits their existing beliefs.
The Bel Tel appears to be avoiding this approach by giving prominence to the expert views of Tyrone boutique owners on the suitability of masks.
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/ive-read-every-study-on-masks-solution-worse-than-virus-says-tyrone-fashion-boss-protester-39663755.html

Probably should be on WTF thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on October 27, 2020, 11:44:17 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 27, 2020, 11:32:48 AM
A lot of one off studies make the headlines and a lot of people taking their absolute truth from them if it fits their existing beliefs.
The Bel Tel appears to be avoiding this approach by giving prominence to the expert views of Tyrone boutique owners on the suitability of masks.
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/ive-read-every-study-on-masks-solution-worse-than-virus-says-tyrone-fashion-boss-protester-39663755.html

Probably should be on WTF thread.

Saw that and was wondering who in their right mind gives Joe Public a platform to air their ill informed and potentially dangerous views in public.

Ask her about the impact on the business and all that, fair enough but leave the epidemiology to the experts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 27, 2020, 11:55:05 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 10:08:29 AM

That seems to be a very emotional response that doesn't really have substance to it.

Dr Feely's original take was much more grounded and rational.

So your response to a considered article is simply to state that black is white. That figures.

On the subject of masks there was an interesting study in the US comparing counties or cities in the same state when one had a mask mandate and the other didn't and there was a marked difference in Covid infections. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Denn Forever on October 27, 2020, 12:00:46 PM
which way?  better or worse with?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 27, 2020, 12:08:53 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 27, 2020, 11:44:17 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 27, 2020, 11:32:48 AM
A lot of one off studies make the headlines and a lot of people taking their absolute truth from them if it fits their existing beliefs.
The Bel Tel appears to be avoiding this approach by giving prominence to the expert views of Tyrone boutique owners on the suitability of masks.
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/ive-read-every-study-on-masks-solution-worse-than-virus-says-tyrone-fashion-boss-protester-39663755.html

Probably should be on WTF thread.

Saw that and was wondering who in their right mind gives Joe Public a platform to air their ill informed and potentially dangerous views in public.

Ask her about the impact on the business and all that, fair enough but leave the epidemiology to the experts.

I read bits and pieces of that article. I don't think anyone is doubting the effectiveness of surgical masks or the likes of KN95 type masks.

Homemade masks however, there is the argument to be made they are simple not worth a jot. Between the premier league type snoods some wear, others pull their tops up over their mouths and then the scarves that are over the face but in no way actually stopping anything going in or out.

I'm not an anti masker or conspiracist whatsoever but the virus is rising especially in Ireland and we've all seen people wearing masks for some months now - personally I think they feel that makes them immune to the basic principles of hand washing and keeping distance but I'm certainly not sold on the effectiveness of anything other than the surgical / medical type.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 27, 2020, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on October 27, 2020, 12:00:46 PM
which way?  better or worse with?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/26/us/coronavirus-today-briefing.html
"counties that have forced residents to wear masks in public have had fewer infections."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 03:04:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2020, 11:55:05 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 10:08:29 AM

That seems to be a very emotional response that doesn't really have substance to it.

Dr Feely's original take was much more grounded and rational.

So your response to a considered article is simply to state that black is white. That figures.

On the subject of masks there was an interesting study in the US comparing counties or cities in the same state when one had a mask mandate and the other didn't and there was a marked difference in Covid infections.

Nope, I'm stating the very people who put forward that experts are infallible should be careful when they use self-titled anarchists to debunk respected medical professionals with assumptions. They could be accused of hypocrisy.

Dr Feeley has made some important classifications on Covid and he's not a denier, he is someone who thinks that lockdowns have wider reaching and more consequences than Covid and there is merit to having that viewpoint put forward.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 03:26:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

What's your views on cancer patients not getting treatment, millions of GP appointments cancelled, irreversible damage to vulnerable individuals mental health, the increase in suicide, abused stuck at home with abusers? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:38:47 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 03:26:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

What's your views on cancer patients not getting treatment, millions of GP appointments cancelled, irreversible damage to vulnerable individuals mental health, the increase in suicide, abused stuck at home with abusers?

oh, another question for a question, ya wee liar !!

Cancer treatments are being done, just not as many as would have been planned, GP appointments are being done, daughter had one yesterday and to be fair, i worked in a gp surgery for 2 years every Friday, same faces every week, would stand in  the rain for an hour to get to see the doctor!

Our mental health system is the worst in Europe id say,  giving tablets seems to be the main thing there , have you the figures on the increased suicides for the north? We can leave the house, the lockdown does not prevent us leaving the house or an abuser. unless they have locked the door
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hereiam on October 27, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Mid Ulster now has the highest COVID positive rate in the north
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 03:54:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

If we've known of the shortage on the NHS for years then why haven't we fixed it? That's the biggest problem.

Covid is not the only show in town. I think the approach we should take is the one that causes the least unnecessary loss of life and least long-lasting consequences. I think Covid tunnel vision is doing more harm that it is preventing. You might have a different opinion but time will tell.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 03:57:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:38:47 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 03:26:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

What's your views on cancer patients not getting treatment, millions of GP appointments cancelled, irreversible damage to vulnerable individuals mental health, the increase in suicide, abused stuck at home with abusers?

oh, another question for a question, ya wee liar !!

Cancer treatments are being done, just not as many as would have been planned, GP appointments are being done, daughter had one yesterday and to be fair, i worked in a gp surgery for 2 years every Friday, same faces every week, would stand in  the rain for an hour to get to see the doctor!

Our mental health system is the worst in Europe id say,  giving tablets seems to be the main thing there , have you the figures on the increased suicides for the north? We can leave the house, the lockdown does not prevent us leaving the house or an abuser. unless they have locked the door

You didn't ask me a question but semantics.   Millions of GP appointments have been missed that is a fact.  A million cancer screening for breast cancer in the UK have been missed, cancer treatment is being missed for category one and category two patients but your da got treatment and your daughter saw a doctor so to hell with everyone else right?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:38:47 PM

Our mental health system is the worst in Europe id say,  giving tablets seems to be the main thing there , have you the figures on the increased suicides for the north? We can leave the house, the lockdown does not prevent us leaving the house or an abuser. unless they have locked the door

So you have no empathy for mental health sufferers or the abused, do you have the same attitude to rape, they could have just walked away, or covered up a bit more?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 27, 2020, 04:08:07 PM
A substantial drop in the positive count on testing the last 24 hours in the ROI. 535 positive tests from 11,435 tests carried out. Hopefully the numbers continue to drop for the rest of the week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 27, 2020, 04:11:42 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 03:57:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:38:47 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 03:26:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

What's your views on cancer patients not getting treatment, millions of GP appointments cancelled, irreversible damage to vulnerable individuals mental health, the increase in suicide, abused stuck at home with abusers?

oh, another question for a question, ya wee liar !!

Cancer treatments are being done, just not as many as would have been planned, GP appointments are being done, daughter had one yesterday and to be fair, i worked in a gp surgery for 2 years every Friday, same faces every week, would stand in  the rain for an hour to get to see the doctor!

Our mental health system is the worst in Europe id say,  giving tablets seems to be the main thing there , have you the figures on the increased suicides for the north? We can leave the house, the lockdown does not prevent us leaving the house or an abuser. unless they have locked the door

You didn't ask me a question but semantics.   Millions of GP appointments have been missed that is a fact.  A million cancer screening for breast cancer in the UK have been missed, cancer treatment is being missed for category one and category two patients but your da got treatment and your daughter saw a doctor so to hell with everyone else right?

Hysterics man, GP's are triaging via telephone (the way a good few practices have done for years) and if people do need to be seen they are being seen onsite. Scripts are still being processed etc.

Give the Internet, social media and the news a by ball for a few weeks. We're close to having a repeat of Michael Douglas in Falling Down

It's looking increasingly likely the needy, vulnerable and front liners will have a vaccine by mid-December. Science looks to have come good, who'd have thought?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 04:15:19 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 27, 2020, 04:11:42 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 03:57:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:38:47 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 03:26:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

What's your views on cancer patients not getting treatment, millions of GP appointments cancelled, irreversible damage to vulnerable individuals mental health, the increase in suicide, abused stuck at home with abusers?

oh, another question for a question, ya wee liar !!

Cancer treatments are being done, just not as many as would have been planned, GP appointments are being done, daughter had one yesterday and to be fair, i worked in a gp surgery for 2 years every Friday, same faces every week, would stand in  the rain for an hour to get to see the doctor!

Our mental health system is the worst in Europe id say,  giving tablets seems to be the main thing there , have you the figures on the increased suicides for the north? We can leave the house, the lockdown does not prevent us leaving the house or an abuser. unless they have locked the door

You didn't ask me a question but semantics.   Millions of GP appointments have been missed that is a fact.  A million cancer screening for breast cancer in the UK have been missed, cancer treatment is being missed for category one and category two patients but your da got treatment and your daughter saw a doctor so to hell with everyone else right?

Hysterics man, GP's are triaging via telephone (the way a good few practices have done for years) and if people do need to be seen they are being seen onsite. Scripts are still being processed etc.

Give the Internet, social media and the news a by ball for a few weeks. We're close to having a repeat of Michael Douglas in Falling Down

It's looking increasingly likely the needy, vulnerable and front liners will have a vaccine by mid-December. Science looks to have come good, who'd have thought?

That's a bit pre-emptive.

It's not like we've had vaccines before that had devastating health side effects.........
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 27, 2020, 04:20:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 03:54:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

If we've known of the shortage on the NHS for years then why haven't we fixed it? That's the biggest problem.

Covid is not the only show in town. I think the approach we should take is the one that causes the least unnecessary loss of life and least long-lasting consequences. I think Covid tunnel vision is doing more harm that it is preventing. You might have a different opinion but time will tell.

I've never really understood this soundbite.

Of course, in the first few months after the emergence of the virus a lot of stuff was cancelled out of caution. But that seems to be happening less frequently now that more about risk is understood.

The main issue right now seems to be that other services are suffering because resources are re-routed to deal with hospitalised COVID patients.

But these COVID patients are seriously ill. Many will die without immediate hospital treatment. So what option is there other than to use your resources to treat them?

We can't turn away from hospitals people struggling to breath - "Sorry mate, COVID quota maxed out for the day. Morgue is floor two on your way down."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 27, 2020, 04:33:52 PM
As we tried to explain to the let it rip/anti lockdown thickos
Less cases of Covid =Less Covid sufferers in Hospitals = more time and space to deal with other diseases.

Simple to 99.98% of people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 04:43:56 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 03:57:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:38:47 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 03:26:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

What's your views on cancer patients not getting treatment, millions of GP appointments cancelled, irreversible damage to vulnerable individuals mental health, the increase in suicide, abused stuck at home with abusers?

oh, another question for a question, ya wee liar !!

Cancer treatments are being done, just not as many as would have been planned, GP appointments are being done, daughter had one yesterday and to be fair, i worked in a gp surgery for 2 years every Friday, same faces every week, would stand in  the rain for an hour to get to see the doctor!

Our mental health system is the worst in Europe id say,  giving tablets seems to be the main thing there , have you the figures on the increased suicides for the north? We can leave the house, the lockdown does not prevent us leaving the house or an abuser. unless they have locked the door

You didn't ask me a question but semantics.   Millions of GP appointments have been missed that is a fact.  A million cancer screening for breast cancer in the UK have been missed, cancer treatment is being missed for category one and category two patients but your da got treatment and your daughter saw a doctor so to hell with everyone else right?

You keep saying millions and we only have 1.4 million here up North, I'm giving you two examples that are real, but hey ho.. Have you those links to the  suicides numbers?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 04:50:22 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 27, 2020, 04:20:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 03:54:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

If we've known of the shortage on the NHS for years then why haven't we fixed it? That's the biggest problem.

Covid is not the only show in town. I think the approach we should take is the one that causes the least unnecessary loss of life and least long-lasting consequences. I think Covid tunnel vision is doing more harm that it is preventing. You might have a different opinion but time will tell.

I've never really understood this soundbite.

Of course, in the first few months after the emergence of the virus a lot of stuff was cancelled out of caution. But that seems to be happening less frequently now that more about risk is understood.

The main issue right now seems to be that other services are suffering because resources are re-routed to deal with hospitalised COVID patients.

But these COVID patients are seriously ill. Many will die without immediate hospital treatment. So what option is there other than to use your resources to treat them?

We can't turn away from hospitals people struggling to breath - "Sorry mate, COVID quota maxed out for the day. Morgue is floor two on your way down."

Because every decision is made for Covid.

With lockdown and excessive restrictions, what concern is given to people's jobs, small business owners, people with mental health issues, care services for people with mental and physical disabilities, people in danger of physical and sexual abuse in their residence, supports for addicts in recovery etc. not to mention just the general social and mental wellbeing of the general population. You'd have to be an extremely, extremely stupid person to argue that all these issues haven't been pushed aside in a attempt to deal with Covid.

And for me putting these issues to one side creates a lot more problems than Covid would at this point. The data will return on suicides, domestic violence, addict relapses in time - I just hope those who advocated putting Covid ahead of eveything else and made accountable for potential rises if they occur.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 04:52:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 03:54:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

If we've known of the shortage on the NHS for years then why haven't we fixed it? That's the biggest problem.

Covid is not the only show in town. I think the approach we should take is the one that causes the least unnecessary loss of life and least long-lasting consequences. I think Covid tunnel vision is doing more harm that it is preventing. You might have a different opinion but time will tell.

Because there is no money and successive gov have let it go this way
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 04:53:37 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:38:47 PM

Our mental health system is the worst in Europe id say,  giving tablets seems to be the main thing there , have you the figures on the increased suicides for the north? We can leave the house, the lockdown does not prevent us leaving the house or an abuser. unless they have locked the door

So you have no empathy for mental health sufferers or the abused, do you have the same attitude to rape, they could have just walked away, or covered up a bit more?

Rape! WTF man you are on a roll. Must be on the whacky
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 27, 2020, 05:11:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 04:53:37 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:38:47 PM

Our mental health system is the worst in Europe id say,  giving tablets seems to be the main thing there , have you the figures on the increased suicides for the north? We can leave the house, the lockdown does not prevent us leaving the house or an abuser. unless they have locked the door

So you have no empathy for mental health sufferers or the abused, do you have the same attitude to rape, they could have just walked away, or covered up a bit more?

Rape! WTF man you are on a roll. Must be on the whacky

Wow
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:11:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 04:52:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 03:54:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

If we've known of the shortage on the NHS for years then why haven't we fixed it? That's the biggest problem.

Covid is not the only show in town. I think the approach we should take is the one that causes the least unnecessary loss of life and least long-lasting consequences. I think Covid tunnel vision is doing more harm that it is preventing. You might have a different opinion but time will tell.

Because there is no money and successive gov have let it go this way

Why haven't they?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:14:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 04:53:37 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:38:47 PM

Our mental health system is the worst in Europe id say,  giving tablets seems to be the main thing there , have you the figures on the increased suicides for the north? We can leave the house, the lockdown does not prevent us leaving the house or an abuser. unless they have locked the door

So you have no empathy for mental health sufferers or the abused, do you have the same attitude to rape, they could have just walked away, or covered up a bit more?

Rape! WTF man you are on a roll. Must be on the whacky

Chances are that people who are in situations with abusers will be subjected to that.

That's one of potential consequences that certain elements of the media and commentators want to cut out of the narrative, there are many vulnerable people who are left in precarious situations in situation of lockdown and restrictive measures?

Surely you can appreciate that vulnerable people are impacted negatively by lockdowns and restrictive measures?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 27, 2020, 05:14:51 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on October 27, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Mid Ulster now has the highest COVID positive rate in the north

Derry City and Strabane and Newry and Mourne are down one third in a week. with Mid Ulster up to a 7 day rate of 536.9.
The improvement in Derry has to offer some hope for other places, if every place could drop one third in a week then the pressure would be eased substantially.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 27, 2020, 05:18:12 PM
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/27/protests-flare-up-in-italy-against-new-coronavirus-restrictions

We'll be seeing a bit more of this in the coming weeks and months.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:23:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2020, 05:14:51 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on October 27, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Mid Ulster now has the highest COVID positive rate in the north

Derry City and Strabane and Newry and Mourne are down one third in a week. with Mid Ulster up to a 7 day rate of 536.9.
The improvement in Derry has to offer some hope for other places, if every place could drop one third in a week then the pressure would be eased substantially.

The Derry City and Strabane rates were hardly sustainable though. It was in 1 in 10 of confirmed positive cases per population over a 7/14 day period. If that sustained itself you'd have herd immunity in a couple of months.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 05:35:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:11:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 04:52:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 03:54:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

If we've known of the shortage on the NHS for years then why haven't we fixed it? That's the biggest problem.

Covid is not the only show in town. I think the approach we should take is the one that causes the least unnecessary loss of life and least long-lasting consequences. I think Covid tunnel vision is doing more harm that it is preventing. You might have a different opinion but time will tell.

Because there is no money and successive gov have let it go this way

Why haven't they?

Seriously?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on October 27, 2020, 05:43:37 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 27, 2020, 04:20:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 03:54:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

If we've known of the shortage on the NHS for years then why haven't we fixed it? That's the biggest problem.

Covid is not the only show in town. I think the approach we should take is the one that causes the least unnecessary loss of life and least long-lasting consequences. I think Covid tunnel vision is doing more harm that it is preventing. You might have a different opinion but time will tell.

I've never really understood this soundbite.

Of course, in the first few months after the emergence of the virus a lot of stuff was cancelled out of caution. But that seems to be happening less frequently now that more about risk is understood.

The main issue right now seems to be that other services are suffering because resources are re-routed to deal with hospitalised COVID patients.

But these COVID patients are seriously ill. Many will die without immediate hospital treatment. So what option is there other than to use your resources to treat them?

We can't turn away from hospitals people struggling to breath - "Sorry mate, COVID quota maxed out for the day. Morgue is floor two on your way down."
;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 05:44:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:14:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 04:53:37 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:38:47 PM

Our mental health system is the worst in Europe id say,  giving tablets seems to be the main thing there , have you the figures on the increased suicides for the north? We can leave the house, the lockdown does not prevent us leaving the house or an abuser. unless they have locked the door

So you have no empathy for mental health sufferers or the abused, do you have the same attitude to rape, they could have just walked away, or covered up a bit more?

Rape! WTF man you are on a roll. Must be on the whacky

Chances are that people who are in situations with abusers will be subjected to that.

That's one of potential consequences that certain elements of the media and commentators want to cut out of the narrative, there are many vulnerable people who are left in precarious situations in situation of lockdown and restrictive measures?

Surely you can appreciate that vulnerable people are impacted negatively by lockdowns and restrictive measures?

Chances are!?

Restrictions are not stopping people leaving the house, have said this already.  The police Service and abuse services are open.

We are not restricted to leaving the house so they can go
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:55:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 05:44:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:14:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 04:53:37 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:38:47 PM

Our mental health system is the worst in Europe id say,  giving tablets seems to be the main thing there , have you the figures on the increased suicides for the north? We can leave the house, the lockdown does not prevent us leaving the house or an abuser. unless they have locked the door

So you have no empathy for mental health sufferers or the abused, do you have the same attitude to rape, they could have just walked away, or covered up a bit more?

Rape! WTF man you are on a roll. Must be on the whacky

Chances are that people who are in situations with abusers will be subjected to that.

That's one of potential consequences that certain elements of the media and commentators want to cut out of the narrative, there are many vulnerable people who are left in precarious situations in situation of lockdown and restrictive measures?

Surely you can appreciate that vulnerable people are impacted negatively by lockdowns and restrictive measures?

Chances are!?

Restrictions are not stopping people leaving the house, have said this already.  The police Service and abuse services are open.

We are not restricted to leaving the house so they can go

Why did domestic violence cases seen huge rises during the first lockdown?

This is the problem here, you are arguing something that is an absolute fact. Why can't you even acknowledge the huge societal consequences that come as a result of our strategy to curb Covid?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/17/domestic-abuse-surged-in-lockdown-panorama-investigation-finds-coronavirus

Are domestic violence victims are an irrelevance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 27, 2020, 06:05:09 PM
Ignorance is a terrible affliction.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 27, 2020, 06:07:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:55:39 PM
Why did domestic violence cases seen huge rises during the first lockdown?

This is the problem here, you are arguing something that is an absolute fact. Why can't you even acknowledge the huge societal consequences that come as a result of our strategy to curb Covid?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/17/domestic-abuse-surged-in-lockdown-panorama-investigation-finds-coronavirus

Are domestic violence victims are an irrelevance.

If people are committing domestic violence then they shoud be prosecuted, other people should not be expected to sacrifice their life or health to facilitate these abusers.

13 deaths reported in NI today, there are only a few days in the troubles when so many died and we can probably remember these.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 06:08:46 PM
What happened during that period is horrendous, though the services were still operating and the police were still operating. The government was slow to give more funding towards the safe guarding services, the lady in that piece wasn't just being abused because of Covid.

We are passed the first lockdown by a good few months and we've got far more movement than some other countries like Wales and n the 26 they've got heavier restrictions.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 27, 2020, 06:12:44 PM
720 cases in the 26 today and I think 722 in the 6.
WHO saying Europe needs to do a lot more to keep Covid down.
Curfews in France and Spain and Belgium in trouble.
But the GAAboard virologists want life to go back to February 2020.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 06:14:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2020, 06:05:09 PM
Ignorance is a terrible affliction.

You would know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 06:18:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2020, 06:07:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:55:39 PM
Why did domestic violence cases seen huge rises during the first lockdown?

This is the problem here, you are arguing something that is an absolute fact. Why can't you even acknowledge the huge societal consequences that come as a result of our strategy to curb Covid?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/17/domestic-abuse-surged-in-lockdown-panorama-investigation-finds-coronavirus

Are domestic violence victims are an irrelevance.

If people are committing domestic violence then they shoud be prosecuted, other people should not be expected to sacrifice their life or health to facilitate these abusers.

13 deaths reported in NI today, there are only a few days in the troubles when so many died and we can probably remember these.

If you look at the death notices on any give day you would realise 13 people dying in a give day is not that uncommon. You're comparing mostly eldery people with underlying health issues dying to people being murdered.

That's a bit hysterical, isn't it?

If people are committing domestic violence? Domestic violence cases dramatically increased during lockdown, lockdown and excessive social restrictions are a trigger for domestic violence. Not a great attitude to domestic violence victims is it?

Some people here seem to be disinterested in any sort of injury, damage or death unless it's Covid which is asbolutely shocking.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 06:19:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2020, 06:12:44 PM
720 cases in the 26 today and I think 722 in the 6.
WHO saying Europe needs to do a lot more to keep Covid down.
Curfews in France and Spain and Belgium in trouble.
But the GAAboard virologists want life to go back to February 2020.

More utter hysteria.

Which poster has asked life to return to February 2020, quote a post and back it up. Or shut the f**k up with your disingenuous vomit.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 27, 2020, 06:27:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2020, 06:07:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:55:39 PM
Why did domestic violence cases seen huge rises during the first lockdown?

This is the problem here, you are arguing something that is an absolute fact. Why can't you even acknowledge the huge societal consequences that come as a result of our strategy to curb Covid?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/17/domestic-abuse-surged-in-lockdown-panorama-investigation-finds-coronavirus

Are domestic violence victims are an irrelevance.

If people are committing domestic violence then they shoud be prosecuted, other people should not be expected to sacrifice their life or health to facilitate these abusers.

13 deaths reported in NI today, there are only a few days in the troubles when so many died and we can probably remember these.
367 deaths in the UK today

Those claims that Covid was behaving differently from the spring are looking more and more tenuous
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 06:30:48 PM
Angelo you are losing the run of yourself at times.

Domestic violence needs to be dealt with, it's been going on for thousands of years, these people need to be arrested charged and put away.

The 'millions' of gp appointments not being done is a lie, to use another posters word, they're happening

The reduced cancer appointments and surgeries are a factor of Covid and the reduced ability of bringing people into a hospital environment that have vulnerable people who'll certainly die if catching Covid, if staff catch it that's less people to look after the sick.

There are people better and smarter people than you trying to sort this. You're just some bloke sitting behind a screen
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 06:33:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 06:30:48 PM
Angelo you are losing the run of yourself at times.

Domestic violence needs to be dealt with, it's been going on for thousands of years, these people need to be arrested charged and put away.

The 'millions' of gp appointments not being done is a lie, to use another posters word, they're happening

The reduced cancer appointments and surgeries are a factor of Covid and the reduced ability of bringing people into a hospital environment that have vulnerable people who'll certainly die if catching Covid, if staff catch it that's less people to look after the sick.

There are people better and smarter people than you trying to sort this. You're just some bloke sitting behind a screen

You seem to be conflating domestic violence going on all the time to it seeing a huge rise in cases during lockdown, f**k those people though? Is that what you are saying? Tough shit that we have to have more domestic violence cases? That's the Covid tunnel vision I refer to, open your eyes and see the bigger picture.

Why are you so dismissive to the vulnerable people who are badly impacted by lockdowns and excessive restrictions? Why do you completely dismiss their plights with absolutely no compassion?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 06:36:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2020, 06:27:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2020, 06:07:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:55:39 PM
Why did domestic violence cases seen huge rises during the first lockdown?

This is the problem here, you are arguing something that is an absolute fact. Why can't you even acknowledge the huge societal consequences that come as a result of our strategy to curb Covid?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/17/domestic-abuse-surged-in-lockdown-panorama-investigation-finds-coronavirus

Are domestic violence victims are an irrelevance.

If people are committing domestic violence then they shoud be prosecuted, other people should not be expected to sacrifice their life or health to facilitate these abusers.

13 deaths reported in NI today, there are only a few days in the troubles when so many died and we can probably remember these.
367 deaths in the UK today

Those claims that Covid was behaving differently from the spring are looking more and more tenuous

That's roughly a quarter of peak deaths in the spring wave when cases have been about 4 times higher for a sustained period of time now.

So your point seems to be contradicted by the facts.

Throw up a few tweets by a self-titled anarchist there to further undermine your argument.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 27, 2020, 06:39:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 04:50:22 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 27, 2020, 04:20:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 03:54:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

If we've known of the shortage on the NHS for years then why haven't we fixed it? That's the biggest problem.

Covid is not the only show in town. I think the approach we should take is the one that causes the least unnecessary loss of life and least long-lasting consequences. I think Covid tunnel vision is doing more harm that it is preventing. You might have a different opinion but time will tell.

I've never really understood this soundbite.

Of course, in the first few months after the emergence of the virus a lot of stuff was cancelled out of caution. But that seems to be happening less frequently now that more about risk is understood.

The main issue right now seems to be that other services are suffering because resources are re-routed to deal with hospitalised COVID patients.

But these COVID patients are seriously ill. Many will die without immediate hospital treatment. So what option is there other than to use your resources to treat them?

We can't turn away from hospitals people struggling to breath - "Sorry mate, COVID quota maxed out for the day. Morgue is floor two on your way down."

Because every decision is made for Covid.

With lockdown and excessive restrictions, what concern is given to people's jobs, small business owners, people with mental health issues, care services for people with mental and physical disabilities, people in danger of physical and sexual abuse in their residence, supports for addicts in recovery etc. not to mention just the general social and mental wellbeing of the general population. You'd have to be an extremely, extremely stupid person to argue that all these issues haven't been pushed aside in a attempt to deal with Covid.

And for me putting these issues to one side creates a lot more problems than Covid would at this point. The data will return on suicides, domestic violence, addict relapses in time - I just hope those who advocated putting Covid ahead of eveything else and made accountable for potential rises if they occur.

The things you've mentioned are concerns, and I doubt too many would argue otherwise.

But they are predominantly social care issues, which are dealt with by social services.

Right now our big problem is in health care, with enormous pressure on health services.

I think there is an unhelpful conflation of these areas.

Health and social services are not the same. Different professionals involved. Different settings. Different challenges and solutions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 06:44:15 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 27, 2020, 06:39:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 04:50:22 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 27, 2020, 04:20:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 03:54:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

If we've known of the shortage on the NHS for years then why haven't we fixed it? That's the biggest problem.

Covid is not the only show in town. I think the approach we should take is the one that causes the least unnecessary loss of life and least long-lasting consequences. I think Covid tunnel vision is doing more harm that it is preventing. You might have a different opinion but time will tell.

I've never really understood this soundbite.

Of course, in the first few months after the emergence of the virus a lot of stuff was cancelled out of caution. But that seems to be happening less frequently now that more about risk is understood.

The main issue right now seems to be that other services are suffering because resources are re-routed to deal with hospitalised COVID patients.

But these COVID patients are seriously ill. Many will die without immediate hospital treatment. So what option is there other than to use your resources to treat them?

We can't turn away from hospitals people struggling to breath - "Sorry mate, COVID quota maxed out for the day. Morgue is floor two on your way down."

Because every decision is made for Covid.

With lockdown and excessive restrictions, what concern is given to people's jobs, small business owners, people with mental health issues, care services for people with mental and physical disabilities, people in danger of physical and sexual abuse in their residence, supports for addicts in recovery etc. not to mention just the general social and mental wellbeing of the general population. You'd have to be an extremely, extremely stupid person to argue that all these issues haven't been pushed aside in a attempt to deal with Covid.

And for me putting these issues to one side creates a lot more problems than Covid would at this point. The data will return on suicides, domestic violence, addict relapses in time - I just hope those who advocated putting Covid ahead of eveything else and made accountable for potential rises if they occur.

The things you've mentioned are concerns, and I doubt too many would argue otherwise.

But they are predominantly social care issues, which are dealt with by social services.

Right now our big problem is in health care, with enormous pressure on health services.

I think there is an unhelpful conflation of these areas.

Health and social services are not the same. Different professionals involved. Different settings. Different challenges and solutions.

Yes they're not the same.

It's absolutely undeniable that social care cannot be provided to the proper levels in times of lockdown and excessive restrictions.

So this is the debate, why are we getting consumed by Covid and neglecting all those vulnerable people in those categories? It's actually worth looking at this rather than dismissing it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 06:45:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 06:33:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 06:30:48 PM
Angelo you are losing the run of yourself at times.

Domestic violence needs to be dealt with, it's been going on for thousands of years, these people need to be arrested charged and put away.

The 'millions' of gp appointments not being done is a lie, to use another posters word, they're happening

The reduced cancer appointments and surgeries are a factor of Covid and the reduced ability of bringing people into a hospital environment that have vulnerable people who'll certainly die if catching Covid, if staff catch it that's less people to look after the sick.

There are people better and smarter people than you trying to sort this. You're just some bloke sitting behind a screen

You seem to be conflating domestic violence going on all the time to it seeing a huge uprise in cases during lockdown, f**k those people though? Is that what you are saying? Tough shit that we have to have more domestic violence cases? That's the Covid tunnel vision I refer to, open your eyes and see the bigger picture.

Why are you so dismissive to the vulnerable people who are badly impacted by lockdowns and excessive restrictions? Why do you completely dismiss their plights with absolutely no compassion?

I didn't and said it's horrendous and they need to be locked up, I think you have tunnel vision or blinkered vision..

At what point was I dismissive?

You need to calm down before you have a mental breakdown. We have not got excessive lockdown here at all

Seems herd immunity is not going to happen and we'll all get it multiple times, hopefully we'll only get a lesser strain of it, if that's possible.

Stay safe Angelo
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 27, 2020, 06:55:00 PM
Czech Republic death rates are now matching Italy's from the spring

Those claims that Covid is behaving differently are looking more and more and more tenuous

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElWywkSX0Akdj5A?format=png&name=small)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 27, 2020, 07:00:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 06:44:15 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 27, 2020, 06:39:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 04:50:22 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 27, 2020, 04:20:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 03:54:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

If we've known of the shortage on the NHS for years then why haven't we fixed it? That's the biggest problem.

Covid is not the only show in town. I think the approach we should take is the one that causes the least unnecessary loss of life and least long-lasting consequences. I think Covid tunnel vision is doing more harm that it is preventing. You might have a different opinion but time will tell.

I've never really understood this soundbite.

Of course, in the first few months after the emergence of the virus a lot of stuff was cancelled out of caution. But that seems to be happening less frequently now that more about risk is understood.

The main issue right now seems to be that other services are suffering because resources are re-routed to deal with hospitalised COVID patients.

But these COVID patients are seriously ill. Many will die without immediate hospital treatment. So what option is there other than to use your resources to treat them?

We can't turn away from hospitals people struggling to breath - "Sorry mate, COVID quota maxed out for the day. Morgue is floor two on your way down."

Because every decision is made for Covid.

With lockdown and excessive restrictions, what concern is given to people's jobs, small business owners, people with mental health issues, care services for people with mental and physical disabilities, people in danger of physical and sexual abuse in their residence, supports for addicts in recovery etc. not to mention just the general social and mental wellbeing of the general population. You'd have to be an extremely, extremely stupid person to argue that all these issues haven't been pushed aside in a attempt to deal with Covid.

And for me putting these issues to one side creates a lot more problems than Covid would at this point. The data will return on suicides, domestic violence, addict relapses in time - I just hope those who advocated putting Covid ahead of eveything else and made accountable for potential rises if they occur.

The things you've mentioned are concerns, and I doubt too many would argue otherwise.

But they are predominantly social care issues, which are dealt with by social services.

Right now our big problem is in health care, with enormous pressure on health services.

I think there is an unhelpful conflation of these areas.

Health and social services are not the same. Different professionals involved. Different settings. Different challenges and solutions.

Yes they're not the same.

It's absolutely undeniable that social care cannot be provided to the proper levels in times of lockdown and excessive restrictions.

So this is the debate, why are we getting consumed by Covid and neglecting all those vulnerable people in those categories? It's actually worth looking at this rather than dismissing it.

To bring it full circle - it's clearly because of the unsustainable pressure on the health service.

Social services have problems with people in longer term risk, but health services have problems with people in immediate risk.

It's an oversimplification, but the bottom line is that the health service has to take precedent at this time.

It's a shit position to be in, but we're in it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 07:01:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 06:45:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 06:33:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 06:30:48 PM
Angelo you are losing the run of yourself at times.

Domestic violence needs to be dealt with, it's been going on for thousands of years, these people need to be arrested charged and put away.

The 'millions' of gp appointments not being done is a lie, to use another posters word, they're happening

The reduced cancer appointments and surgeries are a factor of Covid and the reduced ability of bringing people into a hospital environment that have vulnerable people who'll certainly die if catching Covid, if staff catch it that's less people to look after the sick.

There are people better and smarter people than you trying to sort this. You're just some bloke sitting behind a screen

You seem to be conflating domestic violence going on all the time to it seeing a huge uprise in cases during lockdown, f**k those people though? Is that what you are saying? Tough shit that we have to have more domestic violence cases? That's the Covid tunnel vision I refer to, open your eyes and see the bigger picture.

Why are you so dismissive to the vulnerable people who are badly impacted by lockdowns and excessive restrictions? Why do you completely dismiss their plights with absolutely no compassion?

I didn't and said it's horrendous and they need to be locked up, I think you have tunnel vision or blinkered vision..

At what point was I dismissive?

You need to calm down before you have a mental breakdown. We have not got excessive lockdown here at all

Seems herd immunity is not going to happen and we'll all get it multiple times, hopefully we'll only get a lesser strain of it, if that's possible.

Stay safe Angelo

Locking them up is the same argument is an equivalent argument to saying we should have more ICU beds. Lockdown is the issue at present when it comes to domestic violence incidents surging. When lockdown and restrictive measures come into place they have severe negative consequences on vulnerable groupings in society.

This needs to be addressed and discussed, the reality of this needs to be be brought into the spotlight but there seems to be a concerted effort to downplay and dismiss the plight of these vulnerable people and I have to ask why?

We don't know about herd immunity, knowing science we will have a contrary study out next week telling us that antibodies last up to 1 year on avg. Science is chasing its tail on this, if you learned anything so far that should be it. Still so many unknowns out there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 27, 2020, 07:04:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2020, 06:55:00 PM
Czech Republic death rates are now matching Italy's from the spring

Those claims that Covid is behaving differently are looking more and more and more tenuous

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElWywkSX0Akdj5A?format=png&name=small)

You can get a graph for anything these days. They can be twisted accordingly.

This one is interesting for example

https://twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1319354333172060160
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 27, 2020, 07:11:07 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 27, 2020, 07:04:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2020, 06:55:00 PM
Czech Republic death rates are now matching Italy's from the spring

Those claims that Covid is behaving differently are looking more and more and more tenuous

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElWywkSX0Akdj5A?format=png&name=small)

You can get a graph for anything these days. They can be twisted accordingly.

This one is interesting for example

https://twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1319354333172060160
And you can get a bought and paid for, media savvy medic to tell you anything these days, such as that 10% infection in a population achieves herd immunity, as that guy has claimed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 07:15:26 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 27, 2020, 07:00:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 06:44:15 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 27, 2020, 06:39:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 04:50:22 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 27, 2020, 04:20:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 03:54:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

If we've known of the shortage on the NHS for years then why haven't we fixed it? That's the biggest problem.

Covid is not the only show in town. I think the approach we should take is the one that causes the least unnecessary loss of life and least long-lasting consequences. I think Covid tunnel vision is doing more harm that it is preventing. You might have a different opinion but time will tell.

I've never really understood this soundbite.

Of course, in the first few months after the emergence of the virus a lot of stuff was cancelled out of caution. But that seems to be happening less frequently now that more about risk is understood.

The main issue right now seems to be that other services are suffering because resources are re-routed to deal with hospitalised COVID patients.

But these COVID patients are seriously ill. Many will die without immediate hospital treatment. So what option is there other than to use your resources to treat them?

We can't turn away from hospitals people struggling to breath - "Sorry mate, COVID quota maxed out for the day. Morgue is floor two on your way down."

Because every decision is made for Covid.

With lockdown and excessive restrictions, what concern is given to people's jobs, small business owners, people with mental health issues, care services for people with mental and physical disabilities, people in danger of physical and sexual abuse in their residence, supports for addicts in recovery etc. not to mention just the general social and mental wellbeing of the general population. You'd have to be an extremely, extremely stupid person to argue that all these issues haven't been pushed aside in a attempt to deal with Covid.

And for me putting these issues to one side creates a lot more problems than Covid would at this point. The data will return on suicides, domestic violence, addict relapses in time - I just hope those who advocated putting Covid ahead of eveything else and made accountable for potential rises if they occur.

The things you've mentioned are concerns, and I doubt too many would argue otherwise.

But they are predominantly social care issues, which are dealt with by social services.

Right now our big problem is in health care, with enormous pressure on health services.

I think there is an unhelpful conflation of these areas.

Health and social services are not the same. Different professionals involved. Different settings. Different challenges and solutions.

Yes they're not the same.

It's absolutely undeniable that social care cannot be provided to the proper levels in times of lockdown and excessive restrictions.

So this is the debate, why are we getting consumed by Covid and neglecting all those vulnerable people in those categories? It's actually worth looking at this rather than dismissing it.

To bring it full circle - it's clearly because of the unsustainable pressure on the health service.

Social services have problems with people in longer term risk, but health services have problems with people in immediate risk.

It's an oversimplification, but the bottom line is that the health service has to take precedent at this time.

It's a shit position to be in, but we're in it.

Why does the health service have to take precedent?

Why didn't it take precedent in the decades before when it was run down in terms of resources?

The societal and economic issues lockdowns and restrictions will cause will far outweigh whatever consequences Covid is at present now, in my opinion.

The thing with Covid is the inaccurate classifying of Covid deaths, the vast majority of people who have died from it have underlying health issues, are extremely elderly with low life expectancy and this might sound glib but this is important. Is it really Covid that is killing them or is it an underlying issue, their age, their failing health. I don't think any sensible person can argue this, look at any data that is returned on the no of deaths who had underlying health issues, the age range of deaths etc.

It's not a virus that is any widespread threat to young, fit and healthy people.

So when do we look at that data and contrast it with the vulnerable in society who are being impacted by lockdown and excessive restrictions.
The people whose jobs and livelihoods are at threat.
The impact this has on children and young people and their social development.

The consequences of lockdown and restriction go and above beyond what Covid can even dream about and we're not allowed discuss this without hysterics and misinformation.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2020, 07:11:07 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 27, 2020, 07:04:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2020, 06:55:00 PM
Czech Republic death rates are now matching Italy's from the spring

Those claims that Covid is behaving differently are looking more and more and more tenuous

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElWywkSX0Akdj5A?format=png&name=small)

You can get a graph for anything these days. They can be twisted accordingly.

This one is interesting for example

https://twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1319354333172060160
And you can get a bought and paid for, media savvy medic to tell you anything these days, such as that 10% infection in a population achieves herd immunity, as that guy has claimed

You mean it doesn't fit with your narrative. Misinformation from you once again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 07:44:46 PM
Angelo start up a domestic abuse thread and get that going, it deserves a thread on its own. The links to Covid are real. But you're using their abuse to forward some sort of logic for not preventing the spread of deadly virus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 27, 2020, 08:22:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2020, 07:11:07 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 27, 2020, 07:04:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2020, 06:55:00 PM
Czech Republic death rates are now matching Italy's from the spring

Those claims that Covid is behaving differently are looking more and more and more tenuous

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElWywkSX0Akdj5A?format=png&name=small)

You can get a graph for anything these days. They can be twisted accordingly.

This one is interesting for example

https://twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1319354333172060160
And you can get a bought and paid for, media savvy medic to tell you anything these days, such as that 10% infection in a population achieves herd immunity, as that guy has claimed

You mean it doesn't fit with your narrative. Misinformation from you once again.
What misinformation?

You're lying again!

Sure why break the habit of a lifetime  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 27, 2020, 08:24:00 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 07:15:26 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 27, 2020, 07:00:09 PM
To bring it full circle - it's clearly because of the unsustainable pressure on the health service.

Social services have problems with people in longer term risk, but health services have problems with people in immediate risk.

It's an oversimplification, but the bottom line is that the health service has to take precedent at this time.

It's a shit position to be in, but we're in it.

Why does the health service have to take precedent?

Why didn't it take precedent in the decades before when it was run down in terms of resources?

The societal and economic issues lockdowns and restrictions will cause will far outweigh whatever consequences Covid is at present now, in my opinion.

The thing with Covid is the inaccurate classifying of Covid deaths, the vast majority of people who have died from it have underlying health issues, are extremely elderly with low life expectancy and this might sound glib but this is important. Is it really Covid that is killing them or is it an underlying issue, their age, their failing health. I don't think any sensible person can argue this, look at any data that is returned on the no of deaths who had underlying health issues, the age range of deaths etc.

It's not a virus that is any widespread threat to young, fit and healthy people.

So when do we look at that data and contrast it with the vulnerable in society who are being impacted by lockdown and excessive restrictions.
The people whose jobs and livelihoods are at threat.
The impact this has on children and young people and their social development.

The consequences of lockdown and restriction go and above beyond what Covid can even dream about and we're not allowed discuss this without hysterics and misinformation.

The health service has to take precedent right now because it's under unsustainable pressure right now. Doing anything less than we are currently doing to restrict the spread of the virus will put even more pressure on the health service.

In full agreement with you about the shameful way health services have been run down over the years. People in London should have to answer for that when this is all over, not that they ever will. But none of that changes where we are right now.

We could spend all week arguing the semantics of dying due to COVID or dying with COVID, but there's no denying the cumulative impact of the virus on the health service. The numbers in hospital beds right now speak for themselves.

And that it's people with underlying health conditions or at an advanced age suffering most from COVID isn't actually very important to this discussion. People that are sick or old are still people - and they deserve as much help from the health service as anyone else. But the strain to provide this help is crippling the health service. Which takes us back to why we have to do something about the spread of the virus.

The social issues you bring up deserve consideration. And, I'm sure, have had consideration from those making the big decisions. But they are largely issues that may manifest months or years down the line. We have a nationwide emergency driving people into hospital beds in unprecedented numbers right now. This emergency just has to be dealt with first, by whatever means - there's no getting away from that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 09:53:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 04:43:56 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 03:57:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:38:47 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 03:26:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
What's your views now Angelo on the number of cases and limited ICU beds to possibly cover everyone?

Oh and we know the shortage on the NHS, been like that for years

What's your views on cancer patients not getting treatment, millions of GP appointments cancelled, irreversible damage to vulnerable individuals mental health, the increase in suicide, abused stuck at home with abusers?

oh, another question for a question, ya wee liar !!

Cancer treatments are being done, just not as many as would have been planned, GP appointments are being done, daughter had one yesterday and to be fair, i worked in a gp surgery for 2 years every Friday, same faces every week, would stand in  the rain for an hour to get to see the doctor!

Our mental health system is the worst in Europe id say,  giving tablets seems to be the main thing there , have you the figures on the increased suicides for the north? We can leave the house, the lockdown does not prevent us leaving the house or an abuser. unless they have locked the door

You didn't ask me a question but semantics.   Millions of GP appointments have been missed that is a fact.  A million cancer screening for breast cancer in the UK have been missed, cancer treatment is being missed for category one and category two patients but your da got treatment and your daughter saw a doctor so to hell with everyone else right?

You keep saying millions and we only have 1.4 million here up North, I'm giving you two examples that are real, but hey ho.. Have you those links to the  suicides numbers?

Since the start of the pandemic, there were around 26 million fewer appointments at GP surgeries, according to NHS Digital statistics.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 09:57:34 PM
In the North?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 10:08:03 PM
In the NHS, it operates in the north but your da got treatment and your daughter an appointment so I'm ok jack, yes?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 10:08:44 PM
Do you just like questions?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 10:10:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 04:53:37 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:38:47 PM

Our mental health system is the worst in Europe id say,  giving tablets seems to be the main thing there , have you the figures on the increased suicides for the north? We can leave the house, the lockdown does not prevent us leaving the house or an abuser. unless they have locked the door

So you have no empathy for mental health sufferers or the abused, do you have the same attitude to rape, they could have just walked away, or covered up a bit more?

Rape! WTF man you are on a roll. Must be on the whacky

So do you think abused should just walk away?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 10:11:02 PM
Have to say your line of debate is brilliant, easy to just ask questions, what you think?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 10:13:19 PM
You've a problem lad, you need to step away from the keyboard.

Appointments are happening the place isn't closed, im getting an appointment on Monday and taking dad on Wednesday nurse out on Thursday treatment on Friday

Sounded like a song there
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 10:14:52 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 10:10:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 04:53:37 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 03:38:47 PM

Our mental health system is the worst in Europe id say,  giving tablets seems to be the main thing there , have you the figures on the increased suicides for the north? We can leave the house, the lockdown does not prevent us leaving the house or an abuser. unless they have locked the door

So you have no empathy for mental health sufferers or the abused, do you have the same attitude to rape, they could have just walked away, or covered up a bit more?

Rape! WTF man you are on a roll. Must be on the whacky

So do you think abused should just walk away?

I'll answer that, they should in touch with the police and have that person prosecuted.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 10:23:20 PM
So no empathy or understanding of their plight?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 10:24:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 10:13:19 PM
You've a problem lad, you need to step away from the keyboard.

Appointments are happening the place isn't closed, im getting an appointment on Monday and taking dad on Wednesday nurse out on Thursday treatment on Friday

Sounded like a song there

The place is failing millions but you are ok yeah?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 10:29:01 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 10:23:20 PM
So no empathy or understanding of their plight?

Of course, if you care to read back I've already expressed that. Grew up seeing my poor aunt having to move to England to get away from such. Coming to our house in the dead on night with my cousin's and sleep over bags.

I don't know where you are going with this though, it seems to me that you think this is a new thing and would be solved if we'd no Covid! Very strange
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 27, 2020, 10:32:14 PM
Never said that you can quote where I did, the current situation is exasperating a difficult situation, would you not agree?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 10:37:44 PM
I know 13 have died in last 24 for Covid Antrim hospital at 114% in admissions.

To answer your question Every thing is affected, if we can reduce the numbers getting it then all those other areas can be fixed quicker, the hospitals can only take in so much.

Do you feel we should open up more?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 27, 2020, 11:29:19 PM
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/government-ready-for-any-request-to-transfer-patients-suffering-from-covid-19-in-the-north-to-the-republic-39675811.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 27, 2020, 11:31:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2020, 11:29:19 PM
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/government-ready-for-any-request-to-transfer-patients-suffering-from-covid-19-in-the-north-to-the-republic-39675811.html

Shinners and DUP would rather see people die than let the free-staters dig them out of a hole. SF returning to the modus operandi that human life is expendable in pursuit of a political cause.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 11:39:59 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 27, 2020, 11:31:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2020, 11:29:19 PM
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/government-ready-for-any-request-to-transfer-patients-suffering-from-covid-19-in-the-north-to-the-republic-39675811.html

Shinners and DUP would rather see people die than let the free-staters dig them out of a hole. SF returning to the modus operandi that human life is expendable in pursuit of a political cause.

Have I missed something? Did they say they won't send them down?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on October 28, 2020, 12:03:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 11:39:59 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 27, 2020, 11:31:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2020, 11:29:19 PM
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/government-ready-for-any-request-to-transfer-patients-suffering-from-covid-19-in-the-north-to-the-republic-39675811.html

Shinners and DUP would rather see people die than let the free-staters dig them out of a hole. SF returning to the modus operandi that human life is expendable in pursuit of a political cause.

Have I missed something? Did they say they won't send them down?

The Northern health service is already at capacity in many areas. In some circumstances ambulance services are refusing calls to attend to people. The South has managed to level off and reduce circulating infection. It doesn't even seem to leveling off in the North.

We passed the point were political inaction was costing lives some time ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 12:10:22 AM
Quote from: trileacman on October 28, 2020, 12:03:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 11:39:59 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 27, 2020, 11:31:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 27, 2020, 11:29:19 PM
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/government-ready-for-any-request-to-transfer-patients-suffering-from-covid-19-in-the-north-to-the-republic-39675811.html

Shinners and DUP would rather see people die than let the free-staters dig them out of a hole. SF returning to the modus operandi that human life is expendable in pursuit of a political cause.

Have I missed something? Did they say they won't send them down?

The Northern health service is already at capacity in many areas. In some circumstances ambulance services are refusing calls to attend to people. The South has managed to level off and reduce circulating infection. It doesn't even seem to leveling off in the North.

We passed the point were political inaction was costing lives some time ago.

It is levelling off in the North, Derry and Belfast are down, and they have a lot of the population. Some other areas are up but others have levelled off. However, the North remains with about the same numbers of cases and so hospitalisations etc as the South, despite the population difference. The South has largely managed to keep the regular stuff going in this phase, the North hasn't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 10:37:44 PM
I know 13 have died in last 24 for Covid Antrim hospital at 114% in admissions.

To answer your question Every thing is affected, if we can reduce the numbers getting it then all those other areas can be fixed quicker, the hospitals can only take in so much.

Do you feel we should open up more?

I feel covid shouldn't take priority over all other illnesses.  I also know the deaths attributed to covid are skewed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 08:56:43 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1027/1174285-gardai-domestic-violence/

There has been an 18% increase in calls for help from domestic violence victims to gardaí over the last year as well as a 14% increase in detections for breaches of court orders.

Gardaí have announced a new phase of Operation Faoiseamh, which they say entails a renewed focus on the enforcement of court orders and the prosecution of offenders.

Operation Faoiseamh forms part of the force's community engagement response to Covid-19.

It began on 1 April with the goal of providing enhanced proactive support to victims of domestic abuse.

Divisional Protective Services Units have now been established in every Garda division.

The head of the National Bureau, Detective Chief Superintendent Declan Daly, has stressed that travel restrictions do not apply to victims of domestic violence or anyone helping them escape a risk of harm.

The launch of phase three of Operation Faoiseamh is a further drive to arrest and bring before the courts offenders who have breached domestic violence legislation and in particular court orders, according to gardaí.

Incidents of domestic violence and detections of the crime have increased since the operation was established.

Calls to gardaí are up 18% year on year, detections for breaches of court orders increased by 14% and 107 people are facing prosecution.

Gardaí also said they had made over 15,000 contacts with, or attempts to contact, victims of domestic abuse this year.

Det Chief Supt Daly said the operation is in place to ensure domestic violence victims feel safe and assured them that gardaí will respond "quickly and robustly" to their calls.

Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, he said this is a "real priority" for gardaí.

"This phase is about ensuring that people who have gone to the trouble of getting a court order - that they're enforced and that people are safe in their homes.

"We've arrested and prosecuted 107 people in relation to Operation Faoiseamh already throughout this pandemic and today we will start another phase of that where we will concentrate our efforts on those who have breached court orders in relation to domestic abuse."

Det Chief Supt Daly said one of the positive results of the operation is the "encouragement and reassurance that people get" from gardaí reaching out to them.

Meanwhile TV and radio adverts for the 'Still Here' campaign against domestic abuse recommence today.

Developed by the Department of Justice in collaboration with a number of frontline services, the adverts are a reminder that for many people in Ireland, their home is not a safe place, particularly at this time.

"For anyone living in an abusive relationship or in fear for their safety, going back to Level 5 must feel frightening and difficult," said Minister for Justice Helen McEntee.

"We know that home is not a safe place for all of us, and domestic violence increased during the initial lockdown we faced in the Covid-19 crisis.

"I want victims of domestic and sexual abuse to know that An Garda Síochána, the Courts Service and other services, including the vital supports provided by our community and voluntary sector, are still here for you as we now face more restrictions."

"If you are in this situation I want you to know we will react when you need us, we will protect you. I also want you to know that the 5km restriction on movement does not apply to you if you are seeking help."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 08:59:57 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:23:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2020, 05:14:51 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on October 27, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Mid Ulster now has the highest COVID positive rate in the north

Derry City and Strabane and Newry and Mourne are down one third in a week. with Mid Ulster up to a 7 day rate of 536.9.
The improvement in Derry has to offer some hope for other places, if every place could drop one third in a week then the pressure would be eased substantially.

The Derry City and Strabane rates were hardly sustainable though. It was in 1 in 10 of confirmed positive cases per population over a 7/14 day period. If that sustained itself you'd have herd immunity in a couple of months.

Explain this herd immunity thing to me please.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 09:03:17 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 10:37:44 PM
I know 13 have died in last 24 for Covid Antrim hospital at 114% in admissions.

To answer your question Every thing is affected, if we can reduce the numbers getting it then all those other areas can be fixed quicker, the hospitals can only take in so much.

Do you feel we should open up more?

I feel covid shouldn't take priority over all other illnesses.  I also know the deaths attributed to covid are skewed.

All deaths? And what about the admissions to hospital? are they skewed as well? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:04:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 08:59:57 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:23:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2020, 05:14:51 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on October 27, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Mid Ulster now has the highest COVID positive rate in the north

Derry City and Strabane and Newry and Mourne are down one third in a week. with Mid Ulster up to a 7 day rate of 536.9.
The improvement in Derry has to offer some hope for other places, if every place could drop one third in a week then the pressure would be eased substantially.

The Derry City and Strabane rates were hardly sustainable though. It was in 1 in 10 of confirmed positive cases per population over a 7/14 day period. If that sustained itself you'd have herd immunity in a couple of months.

Explain this herd immunity thing to me please.

Sometime last week or the week before, Derry-Strabane were getting over 1k cases per 100k population over a 7/14 day period.

If that sustained itself for a 2/3 month period, the whole of Derry/Strabane is infected. That sort of sustainment is not realistic so of course the rise was going to start to taper off.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:05:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 09:03:17 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 10:37:44 PM
I know 13 have died in last 24 for Covid Antrim hospital at 114% in admissions.

To answer your question Every thing is affected, if we can reduce the numbers getting it then all those other areas can be fixed quicker, the hospitals can only take in so much.

Do you feel we should open up more?

I feel covid shouldn't take priority over all other illnesses.  I also know the deaths attributed to covid are skewed.

All deaths? And what about the admissions to hospital? are they skewed as well?

Covid deaths are overstated, that is undeniable.

To what degree we don't know yet, but 80-90%+ of deaths would look to have underlying health conditions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on October 28, 2020, 09:16:25 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:05:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 09:03:17 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 10:37:44 PM
I know 13 have died in last 24 for Covid Antrim hospital at 114% in admissions.

To answer your question Every thing is affected, if we can reduce the numbers getting it then all those other areas can be fixed quicker, the hospitals can only take in so much.

Do you feel we should open up more?

I feel covid shouldn't take priority over all other illnesses.  I also know the deaths attributed to covid are skewed.

All deaths? And what about the admissions to hospital? are they skewed as well?

Covid deaths are overstated, that is undeniable.

To what degree we don't know yet, but 80-90%+ of deaths would look to have underlying health conditions. 1910reggie553

What a callous attitude. Many people in their 50s, 60s and 70s have underlying health conditions but they could expect to live for another 10 years minimum with fairly good quality of life. It's not clear at all that Covid deaths are over calculated. Many people died in the first wave from Covid but didn't go to hospital and hence weren't tested. Also many people are dying after 28 days of being tested and hence aren't being counted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:20:09 AM
Quote from: lenny on October 28, 2020, 09:16:25 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:05:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 09:03:17 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 10:37:44 PM
I know 13 have died in last 24 for Covid Antrim hospital at 114% in admissions.

To answer your question Every thing is affected, if we can reduce the numbers getting it then all those other areas can be fixed quicker, the hospitals can only take in so much.

Do you feel we should open up more?

I feel covid shouldn't take priority over all other illnesses.  I also know the deaths attributed to covid are skewed.

All deaths? And what about the admissions to hospital? are they skewed as well?

Covid deaths are overstated, that is undeniable.

To what degree we don't know yet, but 80-90%+ of deaths would look to have underlying health conditions. 1910reggie553

What a callous attitude. Many people in their 50s, 60s and 70s have underlying health conditions but they could expect to live for another 10 years minimum with fairly good quality of life. It's not clear at all that Covid deaths are over calculated. Many people died in the first wave from Covid but didn't go to hospital and hence weren't tested. Also many people are dying after 28 days of being tested and hence aren't being counted.

As callous of you, there are plenty of people who would live another 10 years minimum if their cancer diagnoses were detected on time and now run the risk of dying so take your sanctimony elswhere.

It is clear that there have been huge cases and reports all across the world that people's deaths are being classified as Covid when it played no role in the death.

The median age of death is also 82.

Here's an example of Covid deaths being nearly 50% higher than excess deaths in that period of time in the south. How is that logical?

https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2020/0703/1151127-virus-report/

Look at the bigger picture and stop getting consumed by Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 28, 2020, 09:40:30 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:20:09 AM
Quote from: lenny on October 28, 2020, 09:16:25 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:05:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 09:03:17 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 10:37:44 PM
I know 13 have died in last 24 for Covid Antrim hospital at 114% in admissions.

To answer your question Every thing is affected, if we can reduce the numbers getting it then all those other areas can be fixed quicker, the hospitals can only take in so much.

Do you feel we should open up more?

I feel covid shouldn't take priority over all other illnesses.  I also know the deaths attributed to covid are skewed.

All deaths? And what about the admissions to hospital? are they skewed as well?

Covid deaths are overstated, that is undeniable.

To what degree we don't know yet, but 80-90%+ of deaths would look to have underlying health conditions. 1910reggie553

What a callous attitude. Many people in their 50s, 60s and 70s have underlying health conditions but they could expect to live for another 10 years minimum with fairly good quality of life. It's not clear at all that Covid deaths are over calculated. Many people died in the first wave from Covid but didn't go to hospital and hence weren't tested. Also many people are dying after 28 days of being tested and hence aren't being counted.

As callous of you, there are plenty of people who would live another 10 years minimum if their cancer diagnoses were detected on time and now run the risk of dying so take your sanctimony elswhere.

It is clear that there have been huge cases and reports all across the world that people's deaths are being classified as Covid when it played no role in the death.

The median age of death is also 82.

Here's an example of Covid deaths being nearly 50% higher than excess deaths in that period of time in the south. How is that logical?

https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2020/0703/1151127-virus-report/

Look at the bigger picture and stop getting consumed by Covid.

That article proves that there were 1200 excess deaths in the first wave, during the most strict social restrictions during any of our lifetimes, which is exactly why it needs to be taken seriously.

I dont know why you are using it to try to back up your point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:47:24 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 28, 2020, 09:40:30 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:20:09 AM
Quote from: lenny on October 28, 2020, 09:16:25 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:05:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 09:03:17 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 10:37:44 PM
I know 13 have died in last 24 for Covid Antrim hospital at 114% in admissions.

To answer your question Every thing is affected, if we can reduce the numbers getting it then all those other areas can be fixed quicker, the hospitals can only take in so much.

Do you feel we should open up more?

I feel covid shouldn't take priority over all other illnesses.  I also know the deaths attributed to covid are skewed.

All deaths? And what about the admissions to hospital? are they skewed as well?

Covid deaths are overstated, that is undeniable.

To what degree we don't know yet, but 80-90%+ of deaths would look to have underlying health conditions. 1910reggie553

What a callous attitude. Many people in their 50s, 60s and 70s have underlying health conditions but they could expect to live for another 10 years minimum with fairly good quality of life. It's not clear at all that Covid deaths are over calculated. Many people died in the first wave from Covid but didn't go to hospital and hence weren't tested. Also many people are dying after 28 days of being tested and hence aren't being counted.

As callous of you, there are plenty of people who would live another 10 years minimum if their cancer diagnoses were detected on time and now run the risk of dying so take your sanctimony elswhere.

It is clear that there have been huge cases and reports all across the world that people's deaths are being classified as Covid when it played no role in the death.

The median age of death is also 82.

Here's an example of Covid deaths being nearly 50% higher than excess deaths in that period of time in the south. How is that logical?

https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2020/0703/1151127-virus-report/

Look at the bigger picture and stop getting consumed by Covid.

That article proves that there were 1200 excess deaths in the first wave, during the most strict social restrictions during any of our lifetimes, which is exactly why it needs to be taken seriously.

I dont know why you are using it to try to back up your point.

My point is that Covid associated death exceeded excess death by 50% in the same time period which would lead us to believe that Covid associated deaths are being overstated in excessive proportions.

A bad flu season could also return big excess death figures as we have seen before, an example below.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/30/excess-winter-deaths-in-england-and-wales-highest-since-1976
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on October 28, 2020, 09:48:44 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:20:09 AM
Quote from: lenny on October 28, 2020, 09:16:25 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:05:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 09:03:17 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 10:37:44 PM
I know 13 have died in last 24 for Covid Antrim hospital at 114% in admissions.

To answer your question Every thing is affected, if we can reduce the numbers getting it then all those other areas can be fixed quicker, the hospitals can only take in so much.

Do you feel we should open up more?

I feel covid shouldn't take priority over all other illnesses.  I also know the deaths attributed to covid are skewed.

All deaths? And what about the admissions to hospital? are they skewed as well?

Covid deaths are overstated, that is undeniable.

To what degree we don't know yet, but 80-90%+ of deaths would look to have underlying health conditions. 1910reggie553

What a callous attitude. Many people in their 50s, 60s and 70s have underlying health conditions but they could expect to live for another 10 years minimum with fairly good quality of life. It's not clear at all that Covid deaths are over calculated. Many people died in the first wave from Covid but didn't go to hospital and hence weren't tested. Also many people are dying after 28 days of being tested and hence aren't being counted.

As callous of you, there are plenty of people who would live another 10 years minimum if their cancer diagnoses were detected on time and now run the risk of dying so take your sanctimony elswhere.

It is clear that there have been huge cases and reports all across the world that people's deaths are being classified as Covid when it played no role in the death.

The median age of death is also 82.

Here's an example of Covid deaths being nearly 50% higher than excess deaths in that period of time in the south. How is that logical?

https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2020/0703/1151127-virus-report/

Look at the bigger picture and stop getting consumed by Covid.

Where did I say that people shouldn't go to get themselves checked out for cancer. It's crystal clear that if Covid is allowed to spread unchecked, without lockdowns, then the nhs becomes totally overwhelmed and other patients don't get a chance to get treatment. The whole purpose of lockdown is to give the nhs the capacity to carry on with normal treatments. New Zealand locked down hard, created zero Covid, now they have businesses open, sports open to spectators, health services open. We could have that also.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 09:56:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:04:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 08:59:57 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:23:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2020, 05:14:51 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on October 27, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Mid Ulster now has the highest COVID positive rate in the north

Derry City and Strabane and Newry and Mourne are down one third in a week. with Mid Ulster up to a 7 day rate of 536.9.
The improvement in Derry has to offer some hope for other places, if every place could drop one third in a week then the pressure would be eased substantially.

The Derry City and Strabane rates were hardly sustainable though. It was in 1 in 10 of confirmed positive cases per population over a 7/14 day period. If that sustained itself you'd have herd immunity in a couple of months.

Explain this herd immunity thing to me please.

Sometime last week or the week before, Derry-Strabane were getting over 1k cases per 100k population over a 7/14 day period.

If that sustained itself for a 2/3 month period, the whole of Derry/Strabane is infected. That sort of sustainment is not realistic so of course the rise was going to start to taper off.

and this is purely because of "herd immunity" and nothing to do with a change in behaviours?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 10:03:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 09:03:17 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 10:37:44 PM
I know 13 have died in last 24 for Covid Antrim hospital at 114% in admissions.

To answer your question Every thing is affected, if we can reduce the numbers getting it then all those other areas can be fixed quicker, the hospitals can only take in so much.

Do you feel we should open up more?

I feel covid shouldn't take priority over all other illnesses.  I also know the deaths attributed to covid are skewed.

All deaths? And what about the admissions to hospital? are they skewed as well?

Oh we only do questions.  Where did I say all deaths? Do you think people who need medical care are being abandoned because of the prioritisation of covid? I mentioned before I personally know a doctor who was sent to a covid ward every Thursday and done nothing. Who looked after her appointments that day?  You think a doctor in a pandemic doing nothing whilst at work is a good use of resources?  You think in anyway the public is being failed by the NHS, and yes we know your da is getting treatment and you and your daughter are ok with getting appointments.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 10:06:34 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 08:56:43 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1027/1174285-gardai-domestic-violence/

There has been an 18% increase in calls for help from domestic violence victims to gardaí over the last year as well as a 14% increase in detections for breaches of court orders.

Gardaí have announced a new phase of Operation Faoiseamh, which they say entails a renewed focus on the enforcement of court orders and the prosecution of offenders.

Operation Faoiseamh forms part of the force's community engagement response to Covid-19.

It began on 1 April with the goal of providing enhanced proactive support to victims of domestic abuse.

Divisional Protective Services Units have now been established in every Garda division.

The head of the National Bureau, Detective Chief Superintendent Declan Daly, has stressed that travel restrictions do not apply to victims of domestic violence or anyone helping them escape a risk of harm.

The launch of phase three of Operation Faoiseamh is a further drive to arrest and bring before the courts offenders who have breached domestic violence legislation and in particular court orders, according to gardaí.

Incidents of domestic violence and detections of the crime have increased since the operation was established.

Calls to gardaí are up 18% year on year, detections for breaches of court orders increased by 14% and 107 people are facing prosecution.

Gardaí also said they had made over 15,000 contacts with, or attempts to contact, victims of domestic abuse this year.

Det Chief Supt Daly said the operation is in place to ensure domestic violence victims feel safe and assured them that gardaí will respond "quickly and robustly" to their calls.

Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, he said this is a "real priority" for gardaí.

"This phase is about ensuring that people who have gone to the trouble of getting a court order - that they're enforced and that people are safe in their homes.

"We've arrested and prosecuted 107 people in relation to Operation Faoiseamh already throughout this pandemic and today we will start another phase of that where we will concentrate our efforts on those who have breached court orders in relation to domestic abuse."

Det Chief Supt Daly said one of the positive results of the operation is the "encouragement and reassurance that people get" from gardaí reaching out to them.

Meanwhile TV and radio adverts for the 'Still Here' campaign against domestic abuse recommence today.

Developed by the Department of Justice in collaboration with a number of frontline services, the adverts are a reminder that for many people in Ireland, their home is not a safe place, particularly at this time.

"For anyone living in an abusive relationship or in fear for their safety, going back to Level 5 must feel frightening and difficult," said Minister for Justice Helen McEntee.

"We know that home is not a safe place for all of us, and domestic violence increased during the initial lockdown we faced in the Covid-19 crisis.

"I want victims of domestic and sexual abuse to know that An Garda Síochána, the Courts Service and other services, including the vital supports provided by our community and voluntary sector, are still here for you as we now face more restrictions."

"If you are in this situation I want you to know we will react when you need us, we will protect you. I also want you to know that the 5km restriction on movement does not apply to you if you are seeking help."

I note the usual suspects ignore this.  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 10:08:24 AM
Quote from: lenny on October 28, 2020, 09:16:25 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:05:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 09:03:17 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 10:37:44 PM
I know 13 have died in last 24 for Covid Antrim hospital at 114% in admissions.

To answer your question Every thing is affected, if we can reduce the numbers getting it then all those other areas can be fixed quicker, the hospitals can only take in so much.

Do you feel we should open up more?

I feel covid shouldn't take priority over all other illnesses.  I also know the deaths attributed to covid are skewed.

All deaths? And what about the admissions to hospital? are they skewed as well?

Covid deaths are overstated, that is undeniable.

To what degree we don't know yet, but 80-90%+ of deaths would look to have underlying health conditions. 1910reggie553

What a callous attitude. Many people in their 50s, 60s and 70s have underlying health conditions but they could expect to live for another 10 years minimum with fairly good quality of life. It's not clear at all that Covid deaths are over calculated. Many people died in the first wave from Covid but didn't go to hospital and hence weren't tested. Also many people are dying after 28 days of being tested and hence aren't being counted.

Is it as callous as folk missing cancer diagnosis or treatment who now have their life expectance cut?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 28, 2020, 10:10:21 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54710380

Suppose it's reassuring to know it's not just us.

So hard for the police to tackle this thing when it appears somewhat of a decent minority are not on board whatsoever.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 28, 2020, 10:11:10 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 10:37:44 PM
I know 13 have died in last 24 for Covid Antrim hospital at 114% in admissions.

To answer your question Every thing is affected, if we can reduce the numbers getting it then all those other areas can be fixed quicker, the hospitals can only take in so much.

Do you feel we should open up more?

I feel covid shouldn't take priority over all other illnesses.  I also know the deaths attributed to covid are skewed.

But how does that work? I've seen this mentioned before. You're talking about changing the whole triage process. Patients are assessed due to their urgency. If you have someone dying in front of you, they will take precedent over another patient that may die in 2 week's time if action isn't taken. This isn't just Covid, if someone comes in dying from a car accident, they are assessed and if urgent dealt with ahead of others as well. I don't know how you would change this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 10:24:29 AM
They are cancelling appointments in anticipation of the surge!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 10:42:33 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:20:09 AM
It is clear that there have been huge cases and reports all across the world that people's deaths are being classified as Covid when it played no role in the death.

Even in the worst areas, no more than 1% of people have Covid at a given time. So you expect no more than 1% of people who die to have Covid, if it plays no part in people's death. So by all means knock 1% off reported figures.

Quote from: AngeloHere's an example of Covid deaths being nearly 50% higher than excess deaths in that period of time in the south. How is that logical?

This may be true to some extent in the south, but not in the North

QuoteLook at the bigger picture and stop getting consumed by Covid

You are the one that keeps posting nonsense on this thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 10:53:29 AM
Quote from: lenny on October 28, 2020, 09:48:44 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:20:09 AM
Quote from: lenny on October 28, 2020, 09:16:25 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:05:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 09:03:17 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 10:37:44 PM
I know 13 have died in last 24 for Covid Antrim hospital at 114% in admissions.

To answer your question Every thing is affected, if we can reduce the numbers getting it then all those other areas can be fixed quicker, the hospitals can only take in so much.

Do you feel we should open up more?

I feel covid shouldn't take priority over all other illnesses.  I also know the deaths attributed to covid are skewed.

All deaths? And what about the admissions to hospital? are they skewed as well?

Covid deaths are overstated, that is undeniable.

To what degree we don't know yet, but 80-90%+ of deaths would look to have underlying health conditions. 1910reggie553

What a callous attitude. Many people in their 50s, 60s and 70s have underlying health conditions but they could expect to live for another 10 years minimum with fairly good quality of life. It's not clear at all that Covid deaths are over calculated. Many people died in the first wave from Covid but didn't go to hospital and hence weren't tested. Also many people are dying after 28 days of being tested and hence aren't being counted.

As callous of you, there are plenty of people who would live another 10 years minimum if their cancer diagnoses were detected on time and now run the risk of dying so take your sanctimony elswhere.

It is clear that there have been huge cases and reports all across the world that people's deaths are being classified as Covid when it played no role in the death.

The median age of death is also 82.

Here's an example of Covid deaths being nearly 50% higher than excess deaths in that period of time in the south. How is that logical?

https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2020/0703/1151127-virus-report/

Look at the bigger picture and stop getting consumed by Covid.

Where did I say that people shouldn't go to get themselves checked out for cancer. It's crystal clear that if Covid is allowed to spread unchecked, without lockdowns, then the nhs becomes totally overwhelmed and other patients don't get a chance to get treatment. The whole purpose of lockdown is to give the nhs the capacity to carry on with normal treatments. New Zealand locked down hard, created zero Covid, now they have businesses open, sports open to spectators, health services open. We could have that also.

Shouldn't? They can't.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-53172804

You continue to neglect the ramifications that lockdowns have. Why do you continually dismiss the domestic violence victims, the vulnerable people in society, isolated, having their support services removed or reduced, the increase in mental health concerns, people losing their jobs and livelihoods and the knock on effects of such, the general social and mental wellbeing of society and young people in particular. Why are all these things completely dismissed for Covid. When are people going to open their eyes and see that what we are doing is going to create much bigger and much more long term problems than what we are trying to control.

I know Covid puts people at risk but lockdowns and excessive restrictions carry bigger problems
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 10:54:30 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 09:56:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:04:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 08:59:57 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:23:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2020, 05:14:51 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on October 27, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Mid Ulster now has the highest COVID positive rate in the north

Derry City and Strabane and Newry and Mourne are down one third in a week. with Mid Ulster up to a 7 day rate of 536.9.
The improvement in Derry has to offer some hope for other places, if every place could drop one third in a week then the pressure would be eased substantially.

The Derry City and Strabane rates were hardly sustainable though. It was in 1 in 10 of confirmed positive cases per population over a 7/14 day period. If that sustained itself you'd have herd immunity in a couple of months.

Explain this herd immunity thing to me please.

Sometime last week or the week before, Derry-Strabane were getting over 1k cases per 100k population over a 7/14 day period.

If that sustained itself for a 2/3 month period, the whole of Derry/Strabane is infected. That sort of sustainment is not realistic so of course the rise was going to start to taper off.

and this is purely because of "herd immunity" and nothing to do with a change in behaviours?

I don't get your point. What is it?

Those kind of daily figures that were happening in Derry/Strabane are simply not sustainable in the long term.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 28, 2020, 10:55:41 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 10:24:29 AM
They are cancelling appointments in anticipation of the surge!

The surge is already here. Cancellations are also as a response to staffing levels dropping due to staff isolating. There was 2700 NHS staff members missing a week or two ago due to isolation, I know personally that this is having a huge impact.
They were pulling people from different wards to help cover the gaps. They just don't have the resources to manage the current covid caseload and also do elective surgery.
Did they act too quickly in puling resources from elective surgery? Possibly, I don't know. But it was inevitable that the increases rates of Covid were going to severely impact the rest of the NHS both on demand and staffing availability. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 28, 2020, 11:02:07 AM
For the Thickos
More cases of Covid =more people needing hospitalisation = more cases in ICU = less hospital/ICU space for people with  other diseases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 11:04:11 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 10:42:33 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:20:09 AM
It is clear that there have been huge cases and reports all across the world that people's deaths are being classified as Covid when it played no role in the death.

Even in the worst areas, no more than 1% of people have Covid at a given time. So you expect no more than 1% of people who die to have Covid, if it plays no part in people's death. So by all means knock 1% off reported figures.

Quote from: AngeloHere's an example of Covid deaths being nearly 50% higher than excess deaths in that period of time in the south. How is that logical?

This may be true to some extent in the south, but not in the North

QuoteLook at the bigger picture and stop getting consumed by Covid



Even in the worst areas, no more than 1% of people have Covid at a given time. So you expect no more than 1% of people who die to have Covid, if it plays no part in people's death. So by all means knock 1% off reported figures.

Completely speculative. We know that it was slightly over 1% in Derry/Strabane a fortnight ago and that's only what the testing was picking up, it was likely much higher. Knock 1% off reported figures? Eh, that study in the south showed that Covid deaths exceeded excess death by 50%, if we tested every single person that died for flu, how much of a rise do you think we would have with flu deaths every year? There are huge concerns with the classification of Covid deaths, it has been brought up in nearly every European country.

The mean age of Covid deaths also exceeds avg life expectancy in both the UK and Ireland. 80-90% of those who are recorded of dying from Covid have underlying health conditions so we are seeing that people classified as dying from Covid are primarily and to an extensive degree people who are both elderly and with underlying health conditions.

This may be true to some extent in the south, but not in the North

Another assertive claim with absolutely no basis or foundation. How could you possibly know that? This is the problem with people like you propagating fear with misinformation.

You are the one that keeps posting nonsense on this thread.

You're the one making assertive claims without any foundation and only spreading your own biases. I'm the one trying to get people to look at the bigger picture. So spare me your misplaced arrogance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 28, 2020, 11:06:50 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2020, 11:02:07 AM
For the Thickos
More cases of Covid =more people needing hospitalisation = more cases in ICU = less hospital/ICU space for people with  other diseases.

Yeah look you keep posting this. If you would read what people post the questions they tend to ask is why Covid takes precedence over other illnesses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 28, 2020, 11:07:19 AM
QuoteI know Covid puts people at risk but lockdowns and excessive restrictions carry bigger problems

QuoteAnother assertive claim with absolutely no basis or foundation. How could you possibly know that? This is the problem with people like you propagating fear with misinformation.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 11:07:42 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2020, 11:02:07 AM
For the Thickos
More cases of Covid =more people needing hospitalisation = more cases in ICU = less hospital/ICU space for people with  other diseases.

More importantly, for the thickos here:

More lockdowns and excessive measures = more people losing their jobs and livelihoods, more economic damage, more mental health problems, more suicides, more cases of domestic violence and sexual abuse for vulnerable people, more people with physical and mental disabilities being deprived of proper care and support, more cases of addicts relapsing due to lack of support services and long term societal impacts of these issues and many more.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 11:08:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 28, 2020, 11:07:19 AM
QuoteI know Covid puts people at risk but lockdowns and excessive restrictions carry bigger problems

QuoteAnother assertive claim with absolutely no basis or foundation. How could you possibly know that? This is the problem with people like you propagating fear with misinformation.

That's my opinion, I have stated such in the past.

Why are you so dismissive to domestic violence victims and people with mental health problems, people who have lost their jobs and their livelihoods?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 11:09:05 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 10:54:30 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 09:56:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:04:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 08:59:57 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:23:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2020, 05:14:51 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on October 27, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Mid Ulster now has the highest COVID positive rate in the north

Derry City and Strabane and Newry and Mourne are down one third in a week. with Mid Ulster up to a 7 day rate of 536.9.
The improvement in Derry has to offer some hope for other places, if every place could drop one third in a week then the pressure would be eased substantially.

The Derry City and Strabane rates were hardly sustainable though. It was in 1 in 10 of confirmed positive cases per population over a 7/14 day period. If that sustained itself you'd have herd immunity in a couple of months.

Explain this herd immunity thing to me please.

Sometime last week or the week before, Derry-Strabane were getting over 1k cases per 100k population over a 7/14 day period.

If that sustained itself for a 2/3 month period, the whole of Derry/Strabane is infected. That sort of sustainment is not realistic so of course the rise was going to start to taper off.

and this is purely because of "herd immunity" and nothing to do with a change in behaviours?

I don't get your point. What is it?

Those kind of daily figures that were happening in Derry/Strabane are simply not sustainable in the long term.

you mention herd immunity as its a given, I was just wondering what you think herd immunity is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 11:10:21 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 28, 2020, 11:06:50 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2020, 11:02:07 AM
For the Thickos
More cases of Covid =more people needing hospitalisation = more cases in ICU = less hospital/ICU space for people with  other diseases.

Yeah look you keep posting this. If you would read what people post the questions they tend to ask is why Covid takes precedence over other illnesses.

Rossfan only knows how to engage in idiotic hysteria.

He was saying that people wanted us to return to Feb 2020 when nobody here suggested that at all. He's someone without the intelligence to offer constructive debate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 11:14:17 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 10:03:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 09:03:17 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 10:37:44 PM
I know 13 have died in last 24 for Covid Antrim hospital at 114% in admissions.

To answer your question Every thing is affected, if we can reduce the numbers getting it then all those other areas can be fixed quicker, the hospitals can only take in so much.

Do you feel we should open up more?

I feel covid shouldn't take priority over all other illnesses.  I also know the deaths attributed to covid are skewed.

All deaths? And what about the admissions to hospital? are they skewed as well?

Oh we only do questions.  Where did I say all deaths? Do you think people who need medical care are being abandoned because of the prioritisation of covid? I mentioned before I personally know a doctor who was sent to a covid ward every Thursday and done nothing. Who looked after her appointments that day?  You think a doctor in a pandemic doing nothing whilst at work is a good use of resources?  You think in anyway the public is being failed by the NHS, and yes we know your da is getting treatment and you and your daughter are ok with getting appointments.

I don't believe someone that needs urgent medical care is being left out.. If I was in a car accident I'd say the doctors in A&E won't leave me in the street, if I hurt my back or some other non life threating issue I'll be seen in A&E it'll just take longer and that's fine.

Doctor surgeries are still open, you phone them they phone you back and triage you there and if necessary bring you in or recommend a&e .. Millions of people are being seen by GP's
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 28, 2020, 11:15:12 AM
It was as assertive a claim as anything Armaghniac said.

When have I been dismissive? When has anyone been? You're just putting words in peoples mouths.

What's the point in that argument? It's just to shoot down a counter argument and put someone on the back foot. It doesn't hold up.

I can just turn round and say why are you are dismissive of people who won't be able to get any treatment because there are no hospital beds left. There's no point in me doing that.

The damage of lockdown due to abusive relationships, mental health issues etc etc is about as quantifiable as the benefit of lockdown to alleviating the burden of the health service.

The main thing to be said for the latter is that brains much bigger than mine and probably most if not anyone contributing here have come up with lockdown so there must be something in it. They have to have considered the implications. Why wouldn't they have?

Seaney do you have a link to the 26 million stat from NHS digital? GP appointments in England are at the 20+ million per month. Not sure where the stats for here are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 11:17:25 AM
Just a question regarding the hospitals.

One of the reasons many surgeries are being cancelled is because there are not enough staff to go around because many are self isolating or have caught Covid.

What do the people arguing about hospital capacities/cancellations etc suggest is done to stop this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 28, 2020, 11:19:34 AM
I know someone who had it during March and they had a good level of antibodies built up and were donating blood.
Recently they were told that the antibodies are negligent now; that is after 6 months.
So that person can (presumably) get reinfected again.

It's a real ba$tard of a disease. Not sure how herd immunity could ever be built up if the antibodies disappear. Seems like until we have a vaccine we could maybe have 3 months of relative freedom followed by 1 month of lockdown, with this cycle ongoing.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on October 28, 2020, 11:24:24 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 28, 2020, 11:06:50 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2020, 11:02:07 AM
For the Thickos
More cases of Covid =more people needing hospitalisation = more cases in ICU = less hospital/ICU space for people with  other diseases.

Yeah look you keep posting this. If you would read what people post the questions they tend to ask is why Covid takes precedence over other illnesses.
Yeah and it has been answered a thousand times. Triage process. There is a no getting away from the fact that it is swamping the hospitals. It is a shite position to be in, but we are where we are. Whats the alternative, leave people dying on trollies with covid while you divert resources to a back log of patients with other serious but less immediate ailments?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 11:26:56 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 28, 2020, 11:15:12 AM
It was as assertive a claim as anything Armaghniac said.

When have I been dismissive? When has anyone been? You're just putting words in peoples mouths.

What's the point in that argument? It's just to shoot down a counter argument and put someone on the back foot. It doesn't hold up.

I can just turn round and say why are you are dismissive of people who won't be able to get any treatment because there are no hospital beds left. There's no point in me doing that.

The damage of lockdown due to abusive relationships, mental health issues etc etc is about as quantifiable as the benefit of lockdown to alleviating the burden of the health service.

The main thing to be said for the latter is that brains much bigger than mine and probably most if not anyone contributing here have come up with lockdown so there must be something in it. They have to have considered the implications. Why wouldn't they have?

Seaney do you have a link to the 26 million stat from NHS digital? GP appointments in England are at the 20+ million per month. Not sure where the stats for here are.

No it was an opinion.

What armaghniac did was dismissed something out of sight that he could not possibly know the answer to.

I've given my opinion. We know that Covid deaths have been greatly overstated, we know this for an absolute fact. We know from the data that an overwhelming minority of the people who have been classified as dying from Covid are elderly and have underlying health conditions, we know that the average age of Covid death exceeds average life expectancy in both the UK and Ireland. This is what the data has told us.

So at what point do we begin to focus on economic damage, the rise in domestic violence, suicide rates, mental health problems, addiction relapses and all the other negative trends that have been shown to happen during lockdowns and excessive restrictions?

Or is it simply a case that victims of lockdowns and the vulnerable people impacted from it do not deserve to have their plight highlighted, that these people are somewhat lesser than those at risk of Covid? Why are people like you so intent on dismissing their plight as lesser?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 11:29:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 11:09:05 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 10:54:30 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 09:56:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:04:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 08:59:57 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:23:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2020, 05:14:51 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on October 27, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Mid Ulster now has the highest COVID positive rate in the north

Derry City and Strabane and Newry and Mourne are down one third in a week. with Mid Ulster up to a 7 day rate of 536.9.
The improvement in Derry has to offer some hope for other places, if every place could drop one third in a week then the pressure would be eased substantially.

The Derry City and Strabane rates were hardly sustainable though. It was in 1 in 10 of confirmed positive cases per population over a 7/14 day period. If that sustained itself you'd have herd immunity in a couple of months.

Explain this herd immunity thing to me please.

Sometime last week or the week before, Derry-Strabane were getting over 1k cases per 100k population over a 7/14 day period.

If that sustained itself for a 2/3 month period, the whole of Derry/Strabane is infected. That sort of sustainment is not realistic so of course the rise was going to start to taper off.

and this is purely because of "herd immunity" and nothing to do with a change in behaviours?

I don't get your point. What is it?

Those kind of daily figures that were happening in Derry/Strabane are simply not sustainable in the long term.

you mention herd immunity as its a given, I was just wondering what you think herd immunity is.

For clarity, you mentioned herd immunity, not me.

Herd immunity is what it says it is.

The point I made, if you bothered to read it is that the incidence rate in Derry Strabane was only going to go one way when it was over 1k per 100k population in a 7/14 day incidence rate. If it continued at that rate for 2-3 months there would be nobody left to infect so of course that rate was going to drop. That is hardly surprising.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 28, 2020, 11:36:25 AM
Why have you come back with the same argument again when I nor anyone else have dismissed people in these vulnerable sectors?

Also do you have stats to back this up at all? Real ones? I wouldn't imagine there are any.

There are two evils here. Which is the lesser? You would assume that the powers that be have considered the weighing up of pros and cons to this?

There is no understanding of when we will get a handle on this at all. That coupled with the already under resourced NHS is why there has been such a reaction to impose what a number of people would deem draconian measures. There needs to be something done. Is this absolutely right - perhaps not but at the minute it is a case of needs must.

Everyone knows the deaths have been overstated. You came back with an article to say they were ~1200 as opposed to ~1800 and it was ~33% excess deaths. I am not going to accuse you of discounting 1200 deaths despite the fact you keep accusing me of discounting vulnerable sectors with absolutely no basis for it but 1200 deaths and growing would kind of be a priority over economy I'd have thought.

I still, still, don't know what you are proposing? Let it rip? Lesser lockdowns? By all means lesser lockdowns IMO need to be considered or more targeted ones. To let it rip would just be ludicrous.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 11:40:33 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 11:29:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 11:09:05 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 10:54:30 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 09:56:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:04:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 08:59:57 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:23:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2020, 05:14:51 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on October 27, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Mid Ulster now has the highest COVID positive rate in the north

Derry City and Strabane and Newry and Mourne are down one third in a week. with Mid Ulster up to a 7 day rate of 536.9.
The improvement in Derry has to offer some hope for other places, if every place could drop one third in a week then the pressure would be eased substantially.

The Derry City and Strabane rates were hardly sustainable though. It was in 1 in 10 of confirmed positive cases per population over a 7/14 day period. If that sustained itself you'd have herd immunity in a couple of months.

Explain this herd immunity thing to me please.

Sometime last week or the week before, Derry-Strabane were getting over 1k cases per 100k population over a 7/14 day period.

If that sustained itself for a 2/3 month period, the whole of Derry/Strabane is infected. That sort of sustainment is not realistic so of course the rise was going to start to taper off.

and this is purely because of "herd immunity" and nothing to do with a change in behaviours?

I don't get your point. What is it?

Those kind of daily figures that were happening in Derry/Strabane are simply not sustainable in the long term.

you mention herd immunity as its a given, I was just wondering what you think herd immunity is.

For clarity, you mentioned herd immunity, not me.

Herd immunity is what it says it is.

The point I made, if you bothered to read it is that the incidence rate in Derry Strabane was only going to go one way when it was over 1k per 100k population in a 7/14 day incidence rate. If it continued at that rate for 2-3 months there would be nobody left to infect so of course that rate was going to drop. That is hardly surprising.

No, you mentioned it first as I had highlighted.

It is what it is!!!   ???

Please read this;

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-herd-immunity-hopes-dashed-as-study-shows-covid-19-antibodies-fall-rapidly-after-recovery-12115510 (https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-herd-immunity-hopes-dashed-as-study-shows-covid-19-antibodies-fall-rapidly-after-recovery-12115510)


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on October 28, 2020, 11:40:51 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 28, 2020, 11:19:34 AM
I know someone who had it during March and they had a good level of antibodies built up and were donating blood.
Recently they were told that the antibodies are negligent now; that is after 6 months.
So that person can (presumably) get reinfected again.

It's a real ba$tard of a disease. Not sure how herd immunity could ever be built up if the antibodies disappear. Seems like until we have a vaccine we could maybe have 3 months of relative freedom followed by 1 month of lockdown, with this cycle ongoing.

It's an absolute hoor of a disease, and you definitely don't want to get it.

But antibodies isn't the only indicator of immunity, there's something else around T cells that can't be easily measured. While absolutely you can get re-infected, it does seem to be rare, and while there is evidence of some people getting a nastier dose when re-infected, most of the re-infections have been milder doses.

I think the main reason why herd immunity is not being deliberately followed anywhere is because too many people will die or suffer long term consequences to achieve it, if it's even achievable.

Europe is a disaster zone at the moment and more lockdowns are coming or already in place. I think a lot are seeing how well the lockdown in Melbourne worked. Even Germany about to announce restrictions and Sweden have recently put in more restrictions (albeit the Swedes use guidelines/rules rather than laws as that's generally enough for people over there to follow). 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 11:51:09 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 28, 2020, 11:36:25 AM
Why have you come back with the same argument again when I nor anyone else have dismissed people in these vulnerable sectors?

Also do you have stats to back this up at all? Real ones? I wouldn't imagine there are any.

There are two evils here. Which is the lesser? You would assume that the powers that be have considered the weighing up of pros and cons to this?

There is no understanding of when we will get a handle on this at all. That coupled with the already under resourced NHS is why there has been such a reaction to impose what a number of people would deem draconian measures. There needs to be something done. Is this absolutely right - perhaps not but at the minute it is a case of needs must.

Everyone knows the deaths have been overstated. You came back with an article to say they were ~1200 as opposed to ~1800 and it was ~33% excess deaths. I am not going to accuse you of discounting 1200 deaths despite the fact you keep accusing me of discounting vulnerable sectors with absolutely no basis for it but 1200 deaths and growing would kind of be a priority over economy I'd have thought.

I still, still, don't know what you are proposing? Let it rip? Lesser lockdowns? By all means lesser lockdowns IMO need to be considered or more targeted ones. To let it rip would just be ludicrous.

I'm coming back with the same argument because you and other continually dismiss the impacts of Lockdowns and excessive restrictions. Why don't we discuss that? Why are you consistently trying to steer the debate away from that? Is it because you think people who are domestic violence victims don't matter? People robbed of their livelihoods don't matter? Do you know there is a high correlation between financial problems and suicides? Why don't we discuss these matters and the impacts that lockdowns and excessive restrictions have on their own merits?

And here is another thing, who has mentioned let it rip here? You? Nobody else has mentioned a let it rip strategy apart from the people who seem to dismiss those who are vulnerable and impacted by lockdowns and excessive restrictions. If we wanted to let it rip we would do away with masks, social distancing, limited capacities, hand hygiene, working from home and all additional measures brought to curb its spread. Can you show me one incident of a poster looking for this here? One incident. There's a huge difference between letting it rip and learning to live with the virus and people are being extremely disingenuous here and trying to muddy the waters.


It's near 50% excess, recorded excess deaths were 1,200 -  1,709 Covid deaths so 509 extra Covid deaths were recorded above this number - 509/1200= 42.4%. So its likely that Covid deaths were overstated around 42% which is an extremely significant figure and probably a conservative in terms of the actual overstatement.

And how did these excess deaths continue over the course of the year, was it a case that Covid was taking months off people's lives rather than years? We'll find the answer out to that in time.

Assuming the powers that be make the right calls is not reassuring to me. You're asking me to trust the same people that created this mess in the first place by running down the health service.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 11:52:17 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 11:40:33 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 11:29:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 11:09:05 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 10:54:30 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 09:56:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:04:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 08:59:57 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:23:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2020, 05:14:51 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on October 27, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Mid Ulster now has the highest COVID positive rate in the north

Derry City and Strabane and Newry and Mourne are down one third in a week. with Mid Ulster up to a 7 day rate of 536.9.
The improvement in Derry has to offer some hope for other places, if every place could drop one third in a week then the pressure would be eased substantially.

The Derry City and Strabane rates were hardly sustainable though. It was in 1 in 10 of confirmed positive cases per population over a 7/14 day period. If that sustained itself you'd have herd immunity in a couple of months.

Explain this herd immunity thing to me please.

Sometime last week or the week before, Derry-Strabane were getting over 1k cases per 100k population over a 7/14 day period.

If that sustained itself for a 2/3 month period, the whole of Derry/Strabane is infected. That sort of sustainment is not realistic so of course the rise was going to start to taper off.

and this is purely because of "herd immunity" and nothing to do with a change in behaviours?

I don't get your point. What is it?

Those kind of daily figures that were happening in Derry/Strabane are simply not sustainable in the long term.

you mention herd immunity as its a given, I was just wondering what you think herd immunity is.

For clarity, you mentioned herd immunity, not me.

Herd immunity is what it says it is.

The point I made, if you bothered to read it is that the incidence rate in Derry Strabane was only going to go one way when it was over 1k per 100k population in a 7/14 day incidence rate. If it continued at that rate for 2-3 months there would be nobody left to infect so of course that rate was going to drop. That is hardly surprising.

No, you mentioned it first as I had highlighted.

It is what it is!!!   ???

Please read this;

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-herd-immunity-hopes-dashed-as-study-shows-covid-19-antibodies-fall-rapidly-after-recovery-12115510 (https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-herd-immunity-hopes-dashed-as-study-shows-covid-19-antibodies-fall-rapidly-after-recovery-12115510)

Tell me more about this study?

Of the 1,000 people tested - were these all people that had contracted Covid and in what time frame had they Covid?

Was it the same  people tested again in the second study?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 11:54:19 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 11:04:11 AM
Completely speculative. We know that it was slightly over 1% in Derry/Strabane a fortnight ago and that's only what the testing was picking up, it was likely much higher. Knock 1% off reported figures?

Change the figure to 2% if you wish, it doesn't affect my point.


QuoteEh, that study in the south showed that Covid deaths exceeded excess death by 50%,

Lockdown may have reduced other deaths, from road accidents etc.

Quoteif we tested every single person that died for flu, how much of a rise do you think we would have with flu deaths every year?

We would have a similar figure, flu deaths are largely estimated from excess deaths.

QuoteAnother assertive claim with absolutely no basis or foundation. How could you possibly know that? This is the problem with people like you propagating fear with misinformation.

The problem with "people like me" is that we actually refer to statistics and don't go along with nonsense.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/excess-mortality-and-covid-19-related-deaths-in-northern-ireland-march-june-2020

Quote
You're the one making assertive claims without any foundation and only spreading your own biases. I'm the one trying to get people to look at the bigger picture. So spare me your misplaced arrogance.

All my claims are founded in reality, I appreciate that this is inconvenient for you and that fantasy has much more flexibilty.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 28, 2020, 12:02:48 PM
QuoteBy all means lesser lockdowns IMO need to be considered or more targeted ones.

You keep coming back with the I haven't considered domestic abuse victims. That is absolute nonsense.

This keeping accusing people of not considering cancer victims, domestic abuse victims etc is nonsense. I don't accuse you of discounting

The ~33% was a stat I picked out of the article. My apologies but that was the May stat as opposed to the June one. I really think you are however making a point against your arguments by trying to make a point for your arguments.

Stop accusing people of not caring about these things. You have discounted significant excess deaths and called wave 1 an "outlier" when thousands upon thousands of people died. I don't accuse you of callousness etc - you just lose the run of yourself.

I do not know what you propose for lockdown. Write it down in a few bullet points if you could? There are multiple people who contribute here who seem to think you want to let it rip because you do not seem to clarify otherwise. That is because you haven't laid out what you actually think should be done. What do you actually think should be done here? Not a 10 page essay please. I am sure people would be happy to discuss if you laid it out and laid it out clearly. You have been asked time and time again by multiple people, not just me, so it's not like I am missing the point or your posts or the posts themselves.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 12:09:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 11:54:19 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 11:04:11 AM
Completely speculative. We know that it was slightly over 1% in Derry/Strabane a fortnight ago and that's only what the testing was picking up, it was likely much higher. Knock 1% off reported figures?

Change the figure to 2% if you wish, it doesn't affect my point.


QuoteEh, that study in the south showed that Covid deaths exceeded excess death by 50%,

Lockdown may have reduced other deaths, from road accidents etc.

Quoteif we tested every single person that died for flu, how much of a rise do you think we would have with flu deaths every year?

We would have a similar figure, flu deaths are largely estimated from excess deaths.

QuoteAnother assertive claim with absolutely no basis or foundation. How could you possibly know that? This is the problem with people like you propagating fear with misinformation.

The problem with "people like me" is that we actually refer to statistics and don't go along with nonsense.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/excess-mortality-and-covid-19-related-deaths-in-northern-ireland-march-june-2020

Quote
You're the one making assertive claims without any foundation and only spreading your own biases. I'm the one trying to get people to look at the bigger picture. So spare me your misplaced arrogance.

All my claims are founded in reality, I appreciate that this is inconvenient for you and that fantasy has much more flexibilty.

Change the figure to 2% if you wish, it doesn't affect my point.

It does, it doubles your initial forecast.

Lockdown may have reduced other deaths, from road accidents etc.

Or it may not have, it may also have increased other deaths.

We would have a similar figure, flu deaths are largely estimated from excess deaths.


And death totals in bad flu seasons in January in past years are broadly similar to death totals in April of this year.

The problem with "people like me" is that we actually refer to statistics and don't go along with nonsense.

You contended that Covid deaths did not exceed excess deaths in the north in the March to June, you attached a link which contains a number of further links. Are you actually able to substantiate your claim or are you just on a wing and prayer here?

All my claims are founded in reality, I appreciate that this is inconvenient for you and that fantasy has much more flexibilty.

That's clearly bullshit as you are making claims you simply cannot substantiate, I on the other hand am trying to look at the big picture.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 28, 2020, 12:11:34 PM
Derry ICU at max capacity right now.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 12:14:59 PM
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/excess-mortality-and-covid-19-related-deaths-in-northern-ireland-march-june-2020

Thanks to Armaghniac herer for this.

Our April death tolls when Covid deaths were rampant was actually less than our January 2018 deaths.

Jan 2018 deaths - 2,101
April 2020 deaths - 1,905

Does anyone care to take this for me? Would anyone dare speculate what caused so many deaths in Jan 2018?

This perhaps?

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-42602394
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 28, 2020, 12:25:23 PM
Outlier ;D

So what is your plan? Come on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 12:30:31 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 28, 2020, 12:25:23 PM
Outlier ;D

So what is your plan? Come on.

Outlier?

Which one - April 2020 or Jan 2018?

They are outliers, you are correct but can you explain them?

April 2020 figures seem to be in line with a bad flu season.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 12:30:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 11:52:17 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 11:40:33 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 11:29:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 11:09:05 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 10:54:30 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 09:56:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:04:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 08:59:57 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:23:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2020, 05:14:51 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on October 27, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Mid Ulster now has the highest COVID positive rate in the north

Derry City and Strabane and Newry and Mourne are down one third in a week. with Mid Ulster up to a 7 day rate of 536.9.
The improvement in Derry has to offer some hope for other places, if every place could drop one third in a week then the pressure would be eased substantially.

The Derry City and Strabane rates were hardly sustainable though. It was in 1 in 10 of confirmed positive cases per population over a 7/14 day period. If that sustained itself you'd have herd immunity in a couple of months.

Explain this herd immunity thing to me please.

Sometime last week or the week before, Derry-Strabane were getting over 1k cases per 100k population over a 7/14 day period.

If that sustained itself for a 2/3 month period, the whole of Derry/Strabane is infected. That sort of sustainment is not realistic so of course the rise was going to start to taper off.

and this is purely because of "herd immunity" and nothing to do with a change in behaviours?

I don't get your point. What is it?

Those kind of daily figures that were happening in Derry/Strabane are simply not sustainable in the long term.

you mention herd immunity as its a given, I was just wondering what you think herd immunity is.

For clarity, you mentioned herd immunity, not me.

Herd immunity is what it says it is.

The point I made, if you bothered to read it is that the incidence rate in Derry Strabane was only going to go one way when it was over 1k per 100k population in a 7/14 day incidence rate. If it continued at that rate for 2-3 months there would be nobody left to infect so of course that rate was going to drop. That is hardly surprising.

No, you mentioned it first as I had highlighted.

It is what it is!!!   ???

Please read this;

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-herd-immunity-hopes-dashed-as-study-shows-covid-19-antibodies-fall-rapidly-after-recovery-12115510 (https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-herd-immunity-hopes-dashed-as-study-shows-covid-19-antibodies-fall-rapidly-after-recovery-12115510)

Tell me more about this study?

Of the 1,000 people tested - were these all people that had contracted Covid and in what time frame had they Covid?

Was it the same  people tested again in the second study?

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/207333/coronavirus-antibody-prevalence-falling-england-react/ (https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/207333/coronavirus-antibody-prevalence-falling-england-react/)


Same people tested 3 times over a 3 month period.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 12:33:39 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 12:30:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 11:52:17 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 11:40:33 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 11:29:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 11:09:05 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 10:54:30 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 09:56:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 09:04:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 28, 2020, 08:59:57 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 27, 2020, 05:23:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 27, 2020, 05:14:51 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on October 27, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Mid Ulster now has the highest COVID positive rate in the north

Derry City and Strabane and Newry and Mourne are down one third in a week. with Mid Ulster up to a 7 day rate of 536.9.
The improvement in Derry has to offer some hope for other places, if every place could drop one third in a week then the pressure would be eased substantially.

The Derry City and Strabane rates were hardly sustainable though. It was in 1 in 10 of confirmed positive cases per population over a 7/14 day period. If that sustained itself you'd have herd immunity in a couple of months.

Explain this herd immunity thing to me please.

Sometime last week or the week before, Derry-Strabane were getting over 1k cases per 100k population over a 7/14 day period.

If that sustained itself for a 2/3 month period, the whole of Derry/Strabane is infected. That sort of sustainment is not realistic so of course the rise was going to start to taper off.

and this is purely because of "herd immunity" and nothing to do with a change in behaviours?

I don't get your point. What is it?

Those kind of daily figures that were happening in Derry/Strabane are simply not sustainable in the long term.

you mention herd immunity as its a given, I was just wondering what you think herd immunity is.

For clarity, you mentioned herd immunity, not me.

Herd immunity is what it says it is.

The point I made, if you bothered to read it is that the incidence rate in Derry Strabane was only going to go one way when it was over 1k per 100k population in a 7/14 day incidence rate. If it continued at that rate for 2-3 months there would be nobody left to infect so of course that rate was going to drop. That is hardly surprising.

No, you mentioned it first as I had highlighted.

It is what it is!!!   ???

Please read this;

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-herd-immunity-hopes-dashed-as-study-shows-covid-19-antibodies-fall-rapidly-after-recovery-12115510 (https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-herd-immunity-hopes-dashed-as-study-shows-covid-19-antibodies-fall-rapidly-after-recovery-12115510)

Tell me more about this study?

Of the 1,000 people tested - were these all people that had contracted Covid and in what time frame had they Covid?

Was it the same  people tested again in the second study?

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/207333/coronavirus-antibody-prevalence-falling-england-react/ (https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/207333/coronavirus-antibody-prevalence-falling-england-react/)


Same people tested 3 times over a 3 month period.

a) Did all the people involved in the survey test positive for Covid at some point before the study?
b) At what point did the people involved test positive for Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 12:43:37 PM
Ok Angelo your points are very valid and spot on. Now that we have established that can we get your plan on the following:

Reducing covid spikes
Reducing hospital admissions
Reduced staffing in hospitals

A general break down of how we can balance the current situation with the high number of abuse cases, the higher number of cancer treatments being left out, the millions of GP's patients missing appointments and so on..

Don't give me a question back please, just if you can solve the problem we have currently and back it up with stats that would apply for this place rather than a different country. Take into consideration our current poor health service with limited resources we've had that's historical
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 12:44:34 PM
Also on Covid deaths.

By age profile:

96% of deaths were 60 or over
93% of deaths were 65 or over
88% of deaths were 70 or over
80% of deaths were 75 or over
66% of deaths were 80 or over

Now that doesn't even take into consideration the underlying health conditions.

Covid is the listed cause of death of 38 people under the age of 60 to August this year not withstanding underlying health conditions of these people and the fact we know that Covid deaths are overstated.

At what point do we look at this data and say the consequences of lockdowns are of far greater concern than that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 12:50:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 12:43:37 PM
Ok Angelo your points are very valid and spot on. Now that we have established that can we get your plan on the following:

Reducing covid spikes
Reducing hospital admissions
Reduced staffing in hospitals

A general break down of how we can balance the current situation with the high number of abuse cases, the higher number of cancer treatments being left out, the millions of GP's patients missing appointments and so on..

Don't give me a question back please, just if you can solve the problem we have currently and back it up with stats that would apply for this place rather than a different country. Take into consideration our current poor health service with limited resources we've had that's historical

Spikes are going to happen, we just have to ride it out.

The deaths were interesting. We had 2,101 in Jan 2018. I mentioned it on this very thread a few weeks back. I had the Aussie flu in 2018, it was a bad dose that had me in bed for close to a week and took a few months to get back to 100%. Now what could explain such a death spike in Jan 2018 do you think? Did we shut down society? No.

We have social measures in place now, bars aren't the same, restaurants aren't the same, sporting events aren't the same, weddings aren't the same, working isn't the same, entertainment isn't the same, retail oulets aren't the same. We have masks, social distancing, hand hygiene, limited capacities, working from home to counter Covid - we stick with that for however long we need to but what do we think will happen when we come out of Lockdown this time - cases remain low? Not going to happen, they'll rise again to similar levels and we're back to square one. We try and ride this out and we puts resources and money into the health service in an expedient manner. It is priority number and it's a huge failure of government it wasn't adequately addressed first time around.

But we need to get on with life, conscious of Covid and keep drilling that message home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 28, 2020, 12:58:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 12:44:34 PM
Also on Covid deaths.

By age profile:

96% of deaths were 60 or over
93% of deaths were 65 or over
88% of deaths were 70 or over
80% of deaths were 75 or over
66% of deaths were 80 or over

Now that doesn't even take into consideration the underlying health conditions.

Covid is the listed cause of death of 38 people under the age of 60 to August this year not withstanding underlying health conditions of these people and the fact we know that Covid deaths are overstated.

At what point do we look at this data and say the consequences of lockdowns are of far greater concern than that.

Angelo is asking the right question, just a few months (or lockdowns) ahead of most other people in fairness.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 01:03:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 12:50:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 12:43:37 PM
Ok Angelo your points are very valid and spot on. Now that we have established that can we get your plan on the following:

Reducing covid spikes
Reducing hospital admissions
Reduced staffing in hospitals

A general break down of how we can balance the current situation with the high number of abuse cases, the higher number of cancer treatments being left out, the millions of GP's patients missing appointments and so on..

Don't give me a question back please, just if you can solve the problem we have currently and back it up with stats that would apply for this place rather than a different country. Take into consideration our current poor health service with limited resources we've had that's historical

Spikes are going to happen, we just have to ride it out.

The deaths were interesting. We had 2,101 in Jan 2018. I mentioned it on this very thread a few weeks back. I had the Aussie flu in 2018, it was a bad dose that had me in bed for close to a week and took a few months to get back to 100%. Now what could explain such a death spike in Jan 2018 do you think? Did we shut down society? No.

We have social measures in place now, bars aren't the same, restaurants aren't the same, sporting events aren't the same, weddings aren't the same, working isn't the same, entertainment isn't the same, retail oulets aren't the same. We have masks, social distancing, hand hygiene, limited capacities, working from home to counter Covid - we stick with that for however long we need to but what do we think will happen when we come out of Lockdown this time - cases remain low? Not going to happen, they'll rise again to similar levels and we're back to square one. We try and ride this out and we puts resources and money into the health service in an expedient manner. It is priority number and it's a huge failure of government it wasn't adequately addressed first time around.

But we need to get on with life, conscious of Covid and keep drilling that message home.

But this isn't seasonal flu, and a lot of people get the flu jab to help protect themselves from getting it

Wearing masks and following the hygiene procedures is grand, but if we open up the bars and cafes and places we'll be spiking constantly as its been shown this time round. I don't have the answer but knowing I might need a bed if I become sick and none is available isn't a great thing

Going forward, yes money and training needs to be a priority and that will help future pandemics, as we've opened up Pandora's box here and we could possibly have other pandemics in the future far worse than now.

All of what you have said will have a impact on social and economic ways.

Because the death rate is in the higher age bracket do we just forget about them? Bit like the old film Logan's Run, classic were we had an age limit of 21!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 28, 2020, 01:25:12 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 28, 2020, 12:58:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 12:44:34 PM
Also on Covid deaths.

By age profile:

96% of deaths were 60 or over
93% of deaths were 65 or over
88% of deaths were 70 or over
80% of deaths were 75 or over
66% of deaths were 80 or over

Now that doesn't even take into consideration the underlying health conditions.

Covid is the listed cause of death of 38 people under the age of 60 to August this year not withstanding underlying health conditions of these people and the fact we know that Covid deaths are overstated.

At what point do we look at this data and say the consequences of lockdowns are of far greater concern than that.

Angelo is asking the right question, just a few months (or lockdowns) ahead of most other people in fairness.

Lockdowns are an absolute last resort when you are out of ideas. This thing was running amuck again hence this lockdown.

There were attempts to avoid lockdown after last time by less stringent measures and they didn't work.

Yes they need to find out what does work but at the minute no one has those answers which is why we are where we are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 01:30:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 11:07:42 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 28, 2020, 11:02:07 AM
For the Thickos
More cases of Covid =more people needing hospitalisation = more cases in ICU = less hospital/ICU space for people with  other diseases.

More importantly, for the thickos here:

More lockdowns and excessive measures = more people losing their jobs and livelihoods, more economic damage, more mental health problems, more suicides, more cases of domestic violence and sexual abuse for vulnerable people, more people with physical and mental disabilities being deprived of proper care and support, more cases of addicts relapsing due to lack of support services and long term societal impacts of these issues and many more.

I feel there is a section on here who have chosen a narrative and refuse to look at the wider picture, personal abuse seems to be the way when one questions the narrative.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 01:34:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 11:14:17 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 10:03:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 09:03:17 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 08:56:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 10:37:44 PM
I know 13 have died in last 24 for Covid Antrim hospital at 114% in admissions.

To answer your question Every thing is affected, if we can reduce the numbers getting it then all those other areas can be fixed quicker, the hospitals can only take in so much.

Do you feel we should open up more?

I feel covid shouldn't take priority over all other illnesses.  I also know the deaths attributed to covid are skewed.

All deaths? And what about the admissions to hospital? are they skewed as well?

Oh we only do questions.  Where did I say all deaths? Do you think people who need medical care are being abandoned because of the prioritisation of covid? I mentioned before I personally know a doctor who was sent to a covid ward every Thursday and done nothing. Who looked after her appointments that day?  You think a doctor in a pandemic doing nothing whilst at work is a good use of resources?  You think in anyway the public is being failed by the NHS, and yes we know your da is getting treatment and you and your daughter are ok with getting appointments.

I don't believe someone that needs urgent medical care is being left out.. If I was in a car accident I'd say the doctors in A&E won't leave me in the street, if I hurt my back or some other non life threating issue I'll be seen in A&E it'll just take longer and that's fine.

Doctor surgeries are still open, you phone them they phone you back and triage you there and if necessary bring you in or recommend a&e .. Millions of people are being seen by GP's

So you don't believe cancer treatment is urgent medical care, seriously? I never said GP's are closed I said millions of GP appointments are being missed, do you know they are not?   Do you think breast screening is not urgent medical care?  Do you think folk sitting at home in pain because their surgery was cancelled is not urgent medical care?  You seem determined to state the obvious and ignore the very obvious.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 01:36:13 PM

Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 10:03:29 AM

Oh we only do questions.  Where did I say all deaths? Do you think people who need medical care are being abandoned because of the prioritisation of covid? I mentioned before I personally know a doctor who was sent to a covid ward every Thursday and done nothing. Who looked after her appointments that day?  You think a doctor in a pandemic doing nothing whilst at work is a good use of resources?  You think in anyway the public is being failed by the NHS, and yes we know your da is getting treatment and you and your daughter are ok with getting appointments.

Did you answer that one?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 01:37:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 11:17:25 AM
Just a question regarding the hospitals.

One of the reasons many surgeries are being cancelled is because there are not enough staff to go around because many are self isolating or have caught Covid.

What do the people arguing about hospital capacities/cancellations etc suggest is done to stop this?

What about doctors manning empty covid centres?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 01:39:55 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 28, 2020, 01:25:12 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 28, 2020, 12:58:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 12:44:34 PM
Also on Covid deaths.

By age profile:

96% of deaths were 60 or over
93% of deaths were 65 or over
88% of deaths were 70 or over
80% of deaths were 75 or over
66% of deaths were 80 or over

Now that doesn't even take into consideration the underlying health conditions.

Covid is the listed cause of death of 38 people under the age of 60 to August this year not withstanding underlying health conditions of these people and the fact we know that Covid deaths are overstated.

At what point do we look at this data and say the consequences of lockdowns are of far greater concern than that.

Angelo is asking the right question, just a few months (or lockdowns) ahead of most other people in fairness.

Lockdowns are an absolute last resort when you are out of ideas. This thing was running amuck again hence this lockdown.

There were attempts to avoid lockdown after last time by less stringent measures and they didn't work.

Yes they need to find out what does work but at the minute no one has those answers which is why we are where we are.

We had 13 deaths yesterday, I'd like to hear some context of the people who are dying. Are they elderly, have underlying health conditions, elderly with underlying health conditions, this is something that is not being communicated to people. Is Covid really the cause of death here?

Sadly there is no perfect solution to this but it's important we take the best solution and I think the public are being shielded from a lot of very important and relevant data.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 01:40:29 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 28, 2020, 12:11:34 PM
Derry ICU at max capacity right now.

And the rest of the hospital beds, they maxed out too?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 01:42:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 12:43:37 PM
Ok Angelo your points are very valid and spot on. Now that we have established that can we get your plan on the following:

Reducing covid spikes
Reducing hospital admissions
Reduced staffing in hospitals

A general break down of how we can balance the current situation with the high number of abuse cases, the higher number of cancer treatments being left out, the millions of GP's patients missing appointments and so on..

Don't give me a question back please, just if you can solve the problem we have currently and back it up with stats that would apply for this place rather than a different country. Take into consideration our current poor health service with limited resources we've had that's historical

That has to be the funniest thing I have read on this board.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 01:54:55 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 01:42:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 12:43:37 PM
Ok Angelo your points are very valid and spot on. Now that we have established that can we get your plan on the following:

Reducing covid spikes
Reducing hospital admissions
Reduced staffing in hospitals

A general break down of how we can balance the current situation with the high number of abuse cases, the higher number of cancer treatments being left out, the millions of GP's patients missing appointments and so on..

Don't give me a question back please, just if you can solve the problem we have currently and back it up with stats that would apply for this place rather than a different country. Take into consideration our current poor health service with limited resources we've had that's historical

That has to be the funniest thing I have read on this board.

Seaney, you're the funniest thing on this board, ya we liar  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 01:56:08 PM
Why do we accept so many deaths in January each year?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 28, 2020, 02:06:01 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 01:40:29 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 28, 2020, 12:11:34 PM
Derry ICU at max capacity right now.

And the rest of the hospital beds, they maxed out too?

There's a difference in the wards I'm sure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 28, 2020, 02:09:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 01:56:08 PM
Why do we accept so many deaths in January each year?

People are getting a little sense of mortality perhaps with Covid. Usually it would be a shrug of the shoulders or that's very sad.....but it seems Covid can affect their lives, whereas other things like cancer or the likes seem far away and therefore "accepted".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:20:58 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 01:37:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 11:17:25 AM
Just a question regarding the hospitals.

One of the reasons many surgeries are being cancelled is because there are not enough staff to go around because many are self isolating or have caught Covid.

What do the people arguing about hospital capacities/cancellations etc suggest is done to stop this?

What about doctors manning empty covid centres?

Is that an answer to the question or is it another question?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 02:22:03 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:20:58 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 01:37:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 11:17:25 AM
Just a question regarding the hospitals.

One of the reasons many surgeries are being cancelled is because there are not enough staff to go around because many are self isolating or have caught Covid.

What do the people arguing about hospital capacities/cancellations etc suggest is done to stop this?

What about doctors manning empty covid centres?

Is that an answer to the question or is it another question?

Yes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 02:22:29 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 28, 2020, 02:09:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 01:56:08 PM
Why do we accept so many deaths in January each year?

People are getting a little sense of mortality perhaps with Covid. Usually it would be a shrug of the shoulders or that's very sad.....but it seems Covid can affect their lives, whereas other things like cancer or the likes seem far away and therefore "accepted".

You look at death rates every year on a month by month basis?

They spike in Winter, particularly January. Why, most likely flu would we say?

What else would contribute so much at that time of year to a big variance in death.

We don't test for flu though.

Whatever it is anyway, society accepts it without so much as raising an eyebrow.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 02:22:03 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:20:58 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 01:37:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 11:17:25 AM
Just a question regarding the hospitals.

One of the reasons many surgeries are being cancelled is because there are not enough staff to go around because many are self isolating or have caught Covid.

What do the people arguing about hospital capacities/cancellations etc suggest is done to stop this?

What about doctors manning empty covid centres?

Is that an answer to the question or is it another question?

Yes


Yes to what?

Are you answering my question or are you asking a further question?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 02:29:16 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 02:22:03 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:20:58 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 01:37:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 11:17:25 AM
Just a question regarding the hospitals.

One of the reasons many surgeries are being cancelled is because there are not enough staff to go around because many are self isolating or have caught Covid.

What do the people arguing about hospital capacities/cancellations etc suggest is done to stop this?

What about doctors manning empty covid centres?

Is that an answer to the question or is it another question?

Yes


Yes to what?

Are you answering my question or are you asking a further question?

Does it not do a bit of both?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:37:13 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 02:29:16 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 02:22:03 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:20:58 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 01:37:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 11:17:25 AM
Just a question regarding the hospitals.

One of the reasons many surgeries are being cancelled is because there are not enough staff to go around because many are self isolating or have caught Covid.

What do the people arguing about hospital capacities/cancellations etc suggest is done to stop this?

What about doctors manning empty covid centres?

Is that an answer to the question or is it another question?

Yes


Yes to what?

Are you answering my question or are you asking a further question?

Does it not do a bit of both?

Jesus - I have no idea - its why I asked.

Anyway - if you are suggesting that doctors manning empty Covid wards (not sure how many there are) so be able to fill in for all of the NHS staff off because of Covid or self isolating then I would say you would be more than a few short.

What do you think?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 28, 2020, 02:42:39 PM
Can we not lock this thread until the phrase 'The virus has gone ' has been posted to unlock it!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 28, 2020, 03:22:18 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 28, 2020, 02:42:39 PM
Can we not lock this thread until the phrase 'The virus has gone ' has been posted to unlock it!

My thread conclusion: Angelo and Sean are stealing a living. You would not wanting to be paying that pair
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 04:32:58 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:37:13 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 02:29:16 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 02:22:03 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:20:58 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 01:37:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 11:17:25 AM
Just a question regarding the hospitals.

One of the reasons many surgeries are being cancelled is because there are not enough staff to go around because many are self isolating or have caught Covid.

What do the people arguing about hospital capacities/cancellations etc suggest is done to stop this?

What about doctors manning empty covid centres?

Is that an answer to the question or is it another question?

Yes


Yes to what?

Are you answering my question or are you asking a further question?

Does it not do a bit of both?

Jesus - I have no idea - its why I asked.

Anyway - if you are suggesting that doctors manning empty Covid wards (not sure how many there are) so be able to fill in for all of the NHS staff off because of Covid or self isolating then I would say you would be more than a few short.

What do you think?

I think the NHS is failing people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 04:38:05 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 28, 2020, 03:22:18 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 28, 2020, 02:42:39 PM
Can we not lock this thread until the phrase 'The virus has gone ' has been posted to unlock it!

My thread conclusion: Angelo and Sean are stealing a living. You would not wanting to be paying that pair

I'd say there is a lot of work shy folk on here hiding in cushy civil servant roles still waiting on their laptop. I would ask why you would draw your conclusion, because one doesn't think the current strategy isn't perfect?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 04:47:50 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 04:32:58 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:37:13 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 02:29:16 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 02:22:03 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:20:58 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 01:37:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 11:17:25 AM
Just a question regarding the hospitals.

One of the reasons many surgeries are being cancelled is because there are not enough staff to go around because many are self isolating or have caught Covid.

What do the people arguing about hospital capacities/cancellations etc suggest is done to stop this?

What about doctors manning empty covid centres?

Is that an answer to the question or is it another question?

Yes


Yes to what?

Are you answering my question or are you asking a further question?

Does it not do a bit of both?

Jesus - I have no idea - its why I asked.

Anyway - if you are suggesting that doctors manning empty Covid wards (not sure how many there are) so be able to fill in for all of the NHS staff off because of Covid or self isolating then I would say you would be more than a few short.

What do you think?

I think the NHS is failing people.

But your answer to NHS staff being off work because of Covid was to use the doctors on empty Covid wards?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 06:17:27 PM
Can we get face palming emoji please
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 06:34:36 PM
There have been 9 more Covid-19 deaths in the 6 counties, including one person aged under 19.
840 new cases were also reported today, resulting from tests on 3,722 individuals, which is 22.5% positivity which isn't great.

yet again the 26 counties has less cases, 676, than the wee 6.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 28, 2020, 07:41:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 06:34:36 PM
There have been 9 more Covid-19 deaths in the 6 counties, including one person aged under 19.
840 new cases were also reported today, resulting from tests on 3,722 individuals, which is 22.5% positivity which isn't great.

yet again the 26 counties has less cases, 676, than the wee 6.
Lowest daily case number in the ROI since October 9th. Seven day average has fallen now for 4 days in a row.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 08:01:26 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 28, 2020, 07:41:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 06:34:36 PM
There have been 9 more Covid-19 deaths in the 6 counties, including one person aged under 19.
840 new cases were also reported today, resulting from tests on 3,722 individuals, which is 22.5% positivity which isn't great.

yet again the 26 counties has less cases, 676, than the wee 6.
Lowest daily case number in the ROI since October 9th. Seven day average has fallen now for 4 days in a row.
Yet more evidence, as if it was needed, that lockdowns work
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 08:09:51 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 04:47:50 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 04:32:58 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:37:13 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 02:29:16 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 02:22:03 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:20:58 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 01:37:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 11:17:25 AM
Just a question regarding the hospitals.

One of the reasons many surgeries are being cancelled is because there are not enough staff to go around because many are self isolating or have caught Covid.

What do the people arguing about hospital capacities/cancellations etc suggest is done to stop this?

What about doctors manning empty covid centres?

Is that an answer to the question or is it another question?

Yes


Yes to what?

Are you answering my question or are you asking a further question?

Does it not do a bit of both?

Jesus - I have no idea - its why I asked.

Anyway - if you are suggesting that doctors manning empty Covid wards (not sure how many there are) so be able to fill in for all of the NHS staff off because of Covid or self isolating then I would say you would be more than a few short.

What do you think?

I think the NHS is failing people.

But your answer to NHS staff being off work because of Covid was to use the doctors on empty Covid wards?

No you drew that conclusion, I said a bit of both, I will ask again in a pandemic do you think a doctor working in an empty ward is a good use of resources?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 08:11:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 08:01:26 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 28, 2020, 07:41:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 06:34:36 PM
There have been 9 more Covid-19 deaths in the 6 counties, including one person aged under 19.
840 new cases were also reported today, resulting from tests on 3,722 individuals, which is 22.5% positivity which isn't great.

yet again the 26 counties has less cases, 676, than the wee 6.
Lowest daily case number in the ROI since October 9th. Seven day average has fallen now for 4 days in a row.
Yet more evidence, as if it was needed, that lockdowns work

And to hell with those who suffer as a result?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 08:11:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 08:01:26 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 28, 2020, 07:41:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 06:34:36 PM
There have been 9 more Covid-19 deaths in the 6 counties, including one person aged under 19.
840 new cases were also reported today, resulting from tests on 3,722 individuals, which is 22.5% positivity which isn't great.

yet again the 26 counties has less cases, 676, than the wee 6.
Lowest daily case number in the ROI since October 9th. Seven day average has fallen now for 4 days in a row.
Yet more evidence, as if it was needed, that lockdowns work

I think the ROI lockdown will work fine. Shops can be opened before Xmas and pubs for the period between Xmas and the New Year. Perhaps some closure in January will be needed, but perhaps not if things are kept tight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 08:16:14 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 08:11:10 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 08:01:26 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 28, 2020, 07:41:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 06:34:36 PM
There have been 9 more Covid-19 deaths in the 6 counties, including one person aged under 19.
840 new cases were also reported today, resulting from tests on 3,722 individuals, which is 22.5% positivity which isn't great.

yet again the 26 counties has less cases, 676, than the wee 6.
Lowest daily case number in the ROI since October 9th. Seven day average has fallen now for 4 days in a row.
Yet more evidence, as if it was needed, that lockdowns work

And to hell with those who suffer as a result?
Em, you're the person proposing many more people suffer than is necessary, not me

You should address your question to yourself
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 08:43:24 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 08:09:51 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 04:47:50 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 04:32:58 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:37:13 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 02:29:16 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 02:22:03 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 02:20:58 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 28, 2020, 01:37:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 28, 2020, 11:17:25 AM
Just a question regarding the hospitals.

One of the reasons many surgeries are being cancelled is because there are not enough staff to go around because many are self isolating or have caught Covid.

What do the people arguing about hospital capacities/cancellations etc suggest is done to stop this?

What about doctors manning empty covid centres?

Is that an answer to the question or is it another question?

Yes


Yes to what?

Are you answering my question or are you asking a further question?

Does it not do a bit of both?

Jesus - I have no idea - its why I asked.

Anyway - if you are suggesting that doctors manning empty Covid wards (not sure how many there are) so be able to fill in for all of the NHS staff off because of Covid or self isolating then I would say you would be more than a few short.

What do you think?

I think the NHS is failing people.

But your answer to NHS staff being off work because of Covid was to use the doctors on empty Covid wards?

No you drew that conclusion, I said a bit of both, I will ask again in a pandemic do you think a doctor working in an empty ward is a good use of resources?

I asked the same question a number of times.
You wouldnt give a straight answer - then said a bit of both and now you are saying I drew my own conclusion.

To answer your question - if a doctor is working on an empty ward then that is not a good use of resources.

Now - any chance of giving a straight answer to my question.......

One of the reasons many surgeries are being cancelled is because there are not enough staff to go around because many are self isolating or have caught Covid.

What do the people arguing about hospital capacities/cancellations etc suggest is done to stop this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 28, 2020, 10:26:42 PM
This thread has become very weird over the last two or three weeks.

It has become dominated by a single individual, more recently assisted by a fellow regen poster.

Every day the exact same discussion is had. Other posters seem to take turns engaging (I know I've had my go), and, even when is looks like progress has been made towards a common understanding, the discussion just resets the following morning. It really is Groundhog Day.

Why is there no interest in building on the more amicable efforts to talk through these issues? Why is it that the more confrontational responses elicit the most attention and most verbose replies? What is the point in restating your position several times every single day, without any effort to understand and consider the positions of those with which you disagree?

Nothing about COVID is black and white. There are certainly discussions to be had, but it looks like there's no interest in ever attempting to have a genuine discussion - it's just an argument that's wanted. Any argument about any thing, but the more belligerent and combative the better. Maybe this kind of thing is actually enjoyable for a certain type of person. Weird.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2020, 10:47:42 PM
It's went to shit when posters don't answer questions.

Should ban seasonal flu on this thread and doctors doing nothing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 28, 2020, 11:16:34 PM
This thread used to be a good source of information on Covid in Ireland, particularly for those of us living abroad.  But lately it has become an unedifying and repetitive back and forth where the same arguments are put forth again and again. 

As a way of moving forward, I  respectfully suggest that this thread be split into two.  One on Covid/Lockdown scepticism, and one on general news updates on covid.   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 28, 2020, 11:23:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 08:01:26 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 28, 2020, 07:41:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 06:34:36 PM
There have been 9 more Covid-19 deaths in the 6 counties, including one person aged under 19.
840 new cases were also reported today, resulting from tests on 3,722 individuals, which is 22.5% positivity which isn't great.

yet again the 26 counties has less cases, 676, than the wee 6.
Lowest daily case number in the ROI since October 9th. Seven day average has fallen now for 4 days in a row.
Yet more evidence, as if it was needed, that lockdowns work

We are only seeing the evidence on level 3 restrictions right now as it takes a good 3 or 4 weeks for progress to be seen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 28, 2020, 11:56:36 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 28, 2020, 10:26:42 PM
This thread has become very weird over the last two or three weeks.

It has become dominated by a single individual, more recently assisted by a fellow regen poster.

Every day the exact same discussion is had. Other posters seem to take turns engaging (I know I've had my go), and, even when is looks like progress has been made towards a common understanding, the discussion just resets the following morning. It really is Groundhog Day.

Why is there no interest in building on the more amicable efforts to talk through these issues? Why is it that the more confrontational responses elicit the most attention and most verbose replies? What is the point in restating your position several times every single day, without any effort to understand and consider the positions of those with which you disagree?

Nothing about COVID is black and white. There are certainly discussions to be had, but it looks like there's no interest in ever attempting to have a genuine discussion - it's just an argument that's wanted. Any argument about any thing, but the more belligerent and combative the better. Maybe this kind of thing is actually enjoyable for a certain type of person. Weird.

A post laden in irony.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 29, 2020, 12:18:38 AM
Angelo, yesterday we had an interaction on this thread that was largely amicable. No name calling, no abuse. I tried to understand your argument, and rationalise it with what I currently see happening. It seemed like it might have developed into a genuine discussion into the unenviable trades-off currently being made to manage the pandemic.

But after a couple of posts this didn't seem to do it for you anymore, and you were back off to shout at Milltown and Armaghniac and lenny and everyone else.

This is what I'm on about. Your belligerent reply above is what I'm on about.

You don't really want to discuss, in the truest sense of that word, anything at all. You just want a row. And this has long become boring for everyone else trying to follow the thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: stephenite on October 29, 2020, 12:44:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 08:01:26 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 28, 2020, 07:41:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 06:34:36 PM
There have been 9 more Covid-19 deaths in the 6 counties, including one person aged under 19.
840 new cases were also reported today, resulting from tests on 3,722 individuals, which is 22.5% positivity which isn't great.

yet again the 26 counties has less cases, 676, than the wee 6.
Lowest daily case number in the ROI since October 9th. Seven day average has fallen now for 4 days in a row.
Yet more evidence, as if it was needed, that lockdowns work

I'm just coming out of (apparently) one of the harshest lockdowns globally. Definitely worked
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on October 29, 2020, 09:26:04 AM
Quote from: stephenite on October 29, 2020, 12:44:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 08:01:26 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 28, 2020, 07:41:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 06:34:36 PM
There have been 9 more Covid-19 deaths in the 6 counties, including one person aged under 19.
840 new cases were also reported today, resulting from tests on 3,722 individuals, which is 22.5% positivity which isn't great.

yet again the 26 counties has less cases, 676, than the wee 6.
Lowest daily case number in the ROI since October 9th. Seven day average has fallen now for 4 days in a row.
Yet more evidence, as if it was needed, that lockdowns work

I'm just coming out of (apparently) one of the harshest lockdowns globally. Definitely worked
Lockdowns are painful and nobody wants them, but they clearly work as the best way to reduce cases of Covid, and therefore reduce hospital admissions from Covid, which can allow our Health Service (which already was only mediocre (being generous)) to deal with normal health requirements. Hopefully we'll continue down the route of cases coming down day-by-day and don't overact if there's an outlier one-off day which shows an increase or a too-good-to-be-true decrease.

They key will be how "we" react when we get the numbers down and move out of Level 5. I feel desperately sorry for those business owners and employees who are worst hit by the restrictions. We owe it to them to behave strictly in accordance with Level 2 and 3 (or whatever we move to) when we come out of Level 5.  And of course our Test and Trace system will be absolutely critical.

I understand we're close to bringing in the new antigen testing that is able to mean almost instant test results. Albeit it's not as reliable (and the current testing system isn't the most reliable!), so will be interesting to see how that develops.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on October 29, 2020, 09:43:22 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 29, 2020, 09:26:04 AM
Quote from: stephenite on October 29, 2020, 12:44:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 08:01:26 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 28, 2020, 07:41:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 06:34:36 PM
There have been 9 more Covid-19 deaths in the 6 counties, including one person aged under 19.
840 new cases were also reported today, resulting from tests on 3,722 individuals, which is 22.5% positivity which isn't great.

yet again the 26 counties has less cases, 676, than the wee 6.
Lowest daily case number in the ROI since October 9th. Seven day average has fallen now for 4 days in a row.
Yet more evidence, as if it was needed, that lockdowns work

I'm just coming out of (apparently) one of the harshest lockdowns globally. Definitely worked
Lockdowns are painful and nobody wants them, but they clearly work as the best way to reduce cases of Covid, and therefore reduce hospital admissions from Covid, which can allow our Health Service (which already was only mediocre (being generous)) to deal with normal health requirements. Hopefully we'll continue down the route of cases coming down day-by-day and don't overact if there's an outlier one-off day which shows an increase or a too-good-to-be-true decrease.

They key will be how "we" react when we get the numbers down and move out of Level 5. I feel desperately sorry for those business owners and employees who are worst hit by the restrictions. We owe it to them to behave strictly in accordance with Level 2 and 3 (or whatever we move to) when we come out of Level 5.  And of course our Test and Trace system will be absolutely critical.

I understand we're close to bringing in the new antigen testing that is able to mean almost instant test results. Albeit it's not as reliable (and the current testing system isn't the most reliable!), so will be interesting to see how that develops.

More Covid tunnel vision.

They work on a single perspective of reducing virus transmission but cause complete carnage to the economy, other health services, support services to vulnerable people, increased domestic violence cases and so on and so forth.

Lockdowns don't work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on October 29, 2020, 10:02:57 AM
Quote from: stephenite on October 29, 2020, 12:44:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 08:01:26 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 28, 2020, 07:41:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 06:34:36 PM
There have been 9 more Covid-19 deaths in the 6 counties, including one person aged under 19.
840 new cases were also reported today, resulting from tests on 3,722 individuals, which is 22.5% positivity which isn't great.

yet again the 26 counties has less cases, 676, than the wee 6.
Lowest daily case number in the ROI since October 9th. Seven day average has fallen now for 4 days in a row.
Yet more evidence, as if it was needed, that lockdowns work

I'm just coming out of (apparently) one of the harshest lockdowns globally. Definitely worked

How was it Stephenite?

Has there been much impact to local business/jobs/economy etc?

And finally, how did it differ to ours here?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on October 29, 2020, 10:03:37 AM
Germany & France coming with serious lockdowns - its going to be a very tough Xmas for many
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 29, 2020, 10:09:34 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 19, 2020, 08:28:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 19, 2020, 05:06:57 PM
Those people with Covid tunnel vision have absolutely no interest in looking at the consequences of using lockdowns and restrictions to fight it, maybe you should look at the bigger picture for once.

Current case fatality rate here is 4% (time weighted for day of contraction).

I was going to say that is overly pessimistic and take 1% instead. But, if we followed your course (which you don't outline, but the assumption must be that it is light touch), then the health services would collapse and you would see 4% as a minimum death rate over the long term

Then with your world of minimal restrictions, how many get the virus? Half the population before herd immunity effects kick in? (Half being optimistic, usual thought train is around 70% of populace needs to be immune.)

So, half the population of the north is 1.8 million. Half of that is 900k. 4% of that is 36k people.

In 2018, 15,922 people died in the north. You are advocating doubling the annual death rate in response to worries over intangible forecasts elsewhere.


Big picture? You don't have a f**king clue. Not surprising the man that cannot grasp the difference between fractions and percentages cannot play with big numbers.

It's not my fault you don't understand the figures so the arrogance of you telling someone else they don't have a clue when you are displaying that exact trait yourself is something else.

I'm not advocating doubling the death total.

April is an outlier. Take April out of the equation and it's a steady enough year in terms of deaths. All across Europe Covid cases are doubling and trebling yet fatality rates are falling in double digit multiples, in the 30s and 40s in the likes of France and Belgium. So how you can come up with those figures is flabbergasting.

4% was the figure as of the date of that post (19th Oct). It has since (http://"https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9") declined to ~3%

In April, it was in excess of 20%. April has long since been taken out of the equation. If you'd bothered to look at my links, you'd have seen that.


Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
At the rate we would need the health service to creak we would probably need to be getting 2k positive cases a day from 4-5 tests, the positive rate on tests is currently 20%, we would need to go to 40% for that to happen. New daily case rates have been steady now for the past 2-3 week which means active cases should stagnate and not rise unless we start returning 2k positive tests a day.

This aged well. 10 days later and the number of free beds across the north can be counted on your two hands.


Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
There's absolutely no basis for a 4% rise in death rates. At present we have 0.11% of Covid Active Cases in ICU (not 4%, 0.11%). To reach ICU capacity we probably need an additional 11k in ACTIVE cases in the next fortnight to get to that point. In other words we would probably need about a 30% rise in cases in the next fortnight when all the data is actually pointing to daily case rates stabilising.

4% was the weighted death rate on 19th Oct. Nothing to do with ICU.

Quote from: Angelo on October 20, 2020, 09:41:52 AM
There is absolutely no evidence at all to say we can expect a repeat of April figures, none. Look all across Europe now - look at the rises in cases, look at the comparative death figures - all dropping by double digit multiples so to put a 4% fatality figure is fearmongering of the highest order and it does a severe disservice to vulnerable people who are impacted by the consequences of lockdowns and restrictions.

The mortality rate in the second wave is well below 1%

Since the 1st August we've had 63 Covid deaths and 21,741 Covid cases - that's a death rate of 0.29%. That's a death rate 13 times less than you have projected.

Not true. Even the current case fatality rate (which isn't weighted for date of contraction) is in excess of 2% and has steadied at that. Weighted case fatality rate is around 3% - it would be reasonable to anticipate a converge of the two over the long term. So rework my figures for a 2% death rate and you are still looking at 18k covid deaths - so the overall death rate in the north would double, half those composed of covid cases.

In Lombardy (and elsewhere), it was observed there was a significant spike in death rates once hospital capacity was exceeded.

Triage won't happen effectively and you will have people die at home before ever seeing the inside of a hospital - simply because the capacity to take them in, assess their needs and get them to an ICU bed (assuming it were even available) is not there.

So that 2% figure would rise again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 29, 2020, 10:11:32 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 29, 2020, 09:43:22 AM
More Covid tunnel vision.

They work on a single perspective of reducing virus transmission but cause complete carnage to the economy, other health services, support services to vulnerable people, increased domestic violence cases and so on and so forth.

Lockdowns don't work.

Lockdowns do work.

Can you please generate an estimated death rate increase due to your aforementioned concerns please?

See if it beats 18k over a year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 29, 2020, 11:32:52 AM
Angelo will be silent for a couple of pages now and come back in again with the seasonal flu domestic abuse line again..

Oh, and before Seaney says anything domestic abuse should never be neglected and the police service and support services are still working and people are not in lockdown

Any reports on Seasonal flu being reduced due to the fact that we are being more hygienic and washing hands more and socially distancing?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 29, 2020, 11:51:50 AM
Quote from: Angelo on October 29, 2020, 09:43:22 AM
They work on a single perspective of reducing virus transmission but cause complete carnage to the economy, other health services, support services to vulnerable people, increased domestic violence cases and so on and so forth.

Stop doing this, it has gone beyond a joke at this stage, it isn't funny. Other health services benefit from any reduction in demand from Covid, and no rational person could claim otherwise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 29, 2020, 12:02:33 PM
Armaghniac use the ignore function and only converse with the adult posters. ;)
I see a report on Altnagelvin looking at rationing oxygen!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 29, 2020, 01:19:58 PM
I see there's a planned demonstration in Derry City this weekend by Anne McCloskey and her merry band of looney bins 'Tyranny on Trial'.
# reject lockdowns
# reject the New Normal
# reject mandatory vaccines
# reject the billionaires 'Great Reset'.

(interesting they have dropped the anti-mask rhetoric of late)

I'm not on Facebook myself but have been told she has been asked on several occasions to announce who the '5 Irish speakers + a prominent English spokesperson' are. She is not forthcoming with any answers. Any guesses to what far right speakers show up?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 01:54:06 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 29, 2020, 01:19:58 PM
I see there's a planned demonstration in Derry City this weekend by Anne McCloskey and her merry band of looney bins 'Tyranny on Trial'.
# reject lockdowns
# reject the New Normal
# reject mandatory vaccines
# reject the billionaires 'Great Reset'.

(interesting they have dropped the anti-mask rhetoric of late)

I'm not on Facebook myself but have been told she has been asked on several occasions to announce who the '5 Irish speakers + a prominent English spokesperson' are. She is not forthcoming with any answers. Any guesses to what far right speakers show up?

It will be sad if the far right show up. Because its not a right v left issue at all but it has been manipulated by Antifa extremists and far right and their likes as such on social media. Some of the scenes in Dublin of masked left wingers with weapons was scary, to me they looked like the Casual Crews at England Football matches in the 90s. I came off Twitter after it, maniacs on both sides. Is there a suggestion that vaccines will be mandatory?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on October 29, 2020, 02:40:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 29, 2020, 11:32:52 AM
Angelo will be silent for a couple of pages now and come back in again with the seasonal flu domestic abuse line again..

Oh, and before Seaney says anything domestic abuse should never be neglected and the police service and support services are still working and people are not in lockdown

Any reports on Seasonal flu being reduced due to the fact that we are being more hygienic and washing hands more and socially distancing?

+1

Waste of time.

You are debating with someone who just enjoys arguing and has all day to do it.

He's either unemployed or in a public sector waster role where no one cares that he does fcuk all else.

Most likely the former, as you probably need GCSE Maths to even get one of those jobs.  And that clearly didn't happen.

Maybe that explains the obvious rage issues.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on October 29, 2020, 04:05:55 PM
How long before schools are closed again?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 29, 2020, 04:07:27 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on October 29, 2020, 04:05:55 PM
How long before schools are closed again?

Surprised they are to reopen Monday. Looks like it will be a prolonged December off then.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on October 29, 2020, 04:20:18 PM
Rushmere shopping centre has been packed this week. No point closing the schools when everyone is going about their business.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 29, 2020, 05:20:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 29, 2020, 11:32:52 AMAny reports on Seasonal flu being reduced due to the fact that we are being more hygienic and washing hands more and socially distancing?

I think it'll be essentially wiped out, as the winter flu (here) tends to originate from the southern hemisphere and come via all the extensive air travel.  [I think we then recycle it back down there after its had a chance to evolve itself over our winter]

So flu this year should be the same variants as last year (mostly).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 29, 2020, 06:41:28 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on October 29, 2020, 04:20:18 PM
Rushmere shopping centre has been packed this week. No point closing the schools when everyone is going about their business.

Is this a serious point?

What do you want them to do? People are allowed to go to shops.

If they are all wearing masks (even the makeshift ones that offer little to no protection) they are doing no harm.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 29, 2020, 06:44:09 PM
Providing they sanitise,  shops only allow so many in, people socially distance it's fine, had people done this at the start we wouldn't be in this position!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 29, 2020, 07:08:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 29, 2020, 06:44:09 PM
Providing they sanitise,  shops only allow so many in, people socially distance it's fine, had people done this at the start we wouldn't be in this position!!

yes, but a lot of shops are more interested in packing in the customers than whether they socially distance or wear masks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 29, 2020, 07:18:13 PM
866 in the 26 and 822 I think in the 6.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on October 29, 2020, 07:45:07 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 29, 2020, 06:41:28 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on October 29, 2020, 04:20:18 PM
Rushmere shopping centre has been packed this week. No point closing the schools when everyone is going about their business.

Is this a serious point?

What do you want them to do? People are allowed to go to shops.

If they are all wearing masks (even the makeshift ones that offer little to no protection) they are doing no harm.

It's a very serious point. The children that I teach aren't allowed in school but they're allowed to go to the shopping centre and walk around the shops. Surely you see how stupid that is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 29, 2020, 08:00:11 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on October 29, 2020, 07:45:07 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 29, 2020, 06:41:28 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on October 29, 2020, 04:20:18 PM
Rushmere shopping centre has been packed this week. No point closing the schools when everyone is going about their business.

Is this a serious point?

What do you want them to do? People are allowed to go to shops.

If they are all wearing masks (even the makeshift ones that offer little to no protection) they are doing no harm.

It's a very serious point. The children that I teach aren't allowed in school but they're allowed to go to the shopping centre and walk around the shops. Surely you see how stupid that is.

I agree. It's up there with banning small crowds from matches, while allowing them in shopping centres. Face masks or not. It just makes no sense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 29, 2020, 08:01:24 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on October 29, 2020, 07:45:07 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 29, 2020, 06:41:28 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on October 29, 2020, 04:20:18 PM
Rushmere shopping centre has been packed this week. No point closing the schools when everyone is going about their business.

Is this a serious point?

What do you want them to do? People are allowed to go to shops.

If they are all wearing masks (even the makeshift ones that offer little to no protection) they are doing no harm.

It's a very serious point. The children that I teach aren't allowed in school but they're allowed to go to the shopping centre and walk around the shops. Surely you see how stupid that is.

They still aren't doing anything wrong, as long as they do the mask and sanitisation. I don't see what the problem is. Christ almighty they are kids.

Your problem is a legislative one. They are allowed into shops. There's nothing stupid about it, just because you don't like it doesn't mean they are in the wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 29, 2020, 08:13:26 PM
I don't believe he's saying they're wrong. He's saying the policy makers are wrong.

Primary school kids don't have to wear masks either. Which is obviously great news for everyone else out shopping because although the little buggers might not be affected by it, it doesn't stop them spreading it.


Edit: being "all in this together" is much easier during a full lockdown when you aren't constantly evaluating policies as ideas that have been pulled out of a hat, rather than a strategic decision.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 29, 2020, 09:14:48 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54731262

There is a lot in this. Seems somewhat strange it's been recorded as a Covid case.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebuzz on October 29, 2020, 09:33:29 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 29, 2020, 09:14:48 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54731262

There is a lot in this. Seems somewhat strange it's been recorded as a Covid case.
Definitely appears very strange that they would record it as a covid case if he had no symptoms and was negative when he passed away. Very sad whatever the cause.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 29, 2020, 09:40:42 PM
Quote from: thebuzz on October 29, 2020, 09:33:29 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 29, 2020, 09:14:48 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54731262

There is a lot in this. Seems somewhat strange it's been recorded as a Covid case.
Definitely appears very strange that they would record it as a covid case if he had no symptoms and was negative when he passed away. Very sad whatever the cause.

If you test positive in the last 28 days of life you count. Its to take account of those who catch it and never really get better.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 29, 2020, 09:45:00 PM
There has been many deaths recorded incorrectly, if this has been the case then whoever has 'leaked' that information should be disciplined.

There's absolutely no reason why such headlines need to be fabricated, and if the news or someone else has done it for the wrong reasons then it's backfired completely.

It gives the nut jobs ammunition to go on about seasonal flu and so on, though we are a couple pages away from them coming on

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 10:46:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 29, 2020, 09:45:00 PM
There has been many deaths recorded incorrectly, if this has been the case then whoever has 'leaked' that information should be disciplined.

There's absolutely no reason why such headlines need to be fabricated, and if the news or someone else has done it for the wrong reasons then it's backfired completely.

It gives the nut jobs ammunition to go on about seasonal flu and so on, though we are a couple pages away from them coming on

One of Anne McCloskeys main gripes from the start was this, I didnt agree with all she said at the time but this has been proved true since by many reputable sources. The Nolan Show in which he  had the Oxford professor on was a redner for Nolan
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 29, 2020, 10:53:19 PM
Watched that and Nolan shut it down and moved on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 29, 2020, 11:07:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 29, 2020, 10:53:19 PM
Watched that and Nolan shut it down and moved on

yep
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Downtothewire on October 30, 2020, 12:00:46 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 29, 2020, 09:40:42 PM
Quote from: thebuzz on October 29, 2020, 09:33:29 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 29, 2020, 09:14:48 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54731262

There is a lot in this. Seems somewhat strange it's been recorded as a Covid case.
Definitely appears very strange that they would record it as a covid case if he had no symptoms and was negative when he passed away. Very sad whatever the cause.

After reading the case above you have to wonder about the other story BBC NI were running today that Altnagelvin might need to ration oxygen. Maybe this should be in the "what the f**k" section

If you test positive in the last 28 days of life you count. Its to take account of those who catch it and never really get better.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on October 30, 2020, 12:48:58 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 29, 2020, 08:01:24 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on October 29, 2020, 07:45:07 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 29, 2020, 06:41:28 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on October 29, 2020, 04:20:18 PM
Rushmere shopping centre has been packed this week. No point closing the schools when everyone is going about their business.

Is this a serious point?

What do you want them to do? People are allowed to go to shops.

If they are all wearing masks (even the makeshift ones that offer little to no protection) they are doing no harm.

It's a very serious point. The children that I teach aren't allowed in school but they're allowed to go to the shopping centre and walk around the shops. Surely you see how stupid that is.

They still aren't doing anything wrong, as long as they do the mask and sanitisation. I don't see what the problem is. Christ almighty they are kids.

Your problem is a legislative one. They are allowed into shops. There's nothing stupid about it, just because you don't like it doesn't mean they are in the wrong.

Of course they're not doing anything wrong by law. I'm allowed to go to the gym and I am allowed to go shopping etc but I can't teach the children in my class. It's seems stupid to me. Surely it's better to lock everything down than to close the schools. And you say it so casually about masks and sanitisation. The children I teach are primary school age, they don't have to wear a mask and they definitely don't always sanitise their hands. It's hard enough for adults to stick to that never mind the children. It's a half assed approach.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mario on October 30, 2020, 08:53:42 AM
You are allowed to go to the gym?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 30, 2020, 08:59:36 AM
Quote from: Mario on October 30, 2020, 08:53:42 AM
You are allowed to go to the gym?

Gyms are open
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 30, 2020, 09:00:07 AM
It's just classes that aren't on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 30, 2020, 09:01:41 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 30, 2020, 09:00:07 AM
It's just classes that aren't on.

Haven't been since March!! Starting to notice!!  ;D

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 30, 2020, 09:03:21 AM
I thought you were spending more time round centre field  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 30, 2020, 09:05:41 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 30, 2020, 09:03:21 AM
I thought you were spending more time round centre field  ;D

Cheers!!  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 30, 2020, 09:20:20 AM
 ;D (That wasn't a serious comment).

A boy was saying yesterday gyms are adhering well to things until students come in and nothing is getting cleaned down at all. (belfast city centre). I would say it should be same as anything and if people aren't sticking to rules they should be turfed out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on October 30, 2020, 09:39:23 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 30, 2020, 09:20:20 AM
;D (That wasn't a serious comment).

A boy was saying yesterday gyms are adhering well to things until students come in and nothing is getting cleaned down at all. (belfast city centre). I would say it should be same as anything and if people aren't sticking to rules they should be turfed out.

That would be fair enough common sense approach to everything, including bars / resturants.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 30, 2020, 10:33:36 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 30, 2020, 09:39:23 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 30, 2020, 09:20:20 AM
;D (That wasn't a serious comment).

A boy was saying yesterday gyms are adhering well to things until students come in and nothing is getting cleaned down at all. (belfast city centre). I would say it should be same as anything and if people aren't sticking to rules they should be turfed out.

That would be fair enough common sense approach to everything, including bars / resturants.

Exactly, these places which don't adhere to it need to be dumped! Was in my local before the new restrictions came in and they went the full 10 yards in covering all aspects, they were gutted at having to close up..

The gyms stopping the classes was the sensible thing but as said suspend the members that are f**king about, I just don't get it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 30, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Hopefully a corner being turned
772 in the 26
566 in the 6.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 30, 2020, 08:17:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 30, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Hopefully a corner being turned
772 in the 26
566 in the 6.

I wonder if that has anything to do with the schools being closed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on October 30, 2020, 08:20:58 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 30, 2020, 08:17:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 30, 2020, 06:42:02 PM
Hopefully a corner being turned
772 in the 26
566 in the 6.

I wonder if that has anything to do with the schools being closed.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it probably isn't a unicorn.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on October 30, 2020, 09:40:26 PM
But I thought the schools weren't closed in the south?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 30, 2020, 11:05:22 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on October 30, 2020, 09:40:26 PM
But I thought the schools weren't closed in the south?

It has been half term in both jurisdictions this week.

Quote from: thewobbler on October 30, 2020, 08:20:58 PM
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it probably isn't a unicorn.

the schools are not the worst place for transmission, there is just more data about them,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 30, 2020, 11:34:24 PM
I'd suspect 3rd level going back increased the spread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: FermGael on October 31, 2020, 08:22:33 AM
Boris about to lock down again according to the Tory rags this morning
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 31, 2020, 09:55:11 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 30, 2020, 11:38:35 PM
Nah, it was Communion parties that fcuked the whole thing.

Christening party has spread it widely locally here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 31, 2020, 10:03:01 AM
144 deaths in Belgium yesterday

Belgium's population is 11.6 million

And yet the Covid deniers continue about their merry ways in their shame-free, fantasy, la la world of make believe

Hello Ewan MacKenna
Hello David Quinn
Hello Karl Deeter
Hello Michael McDowell
Hello Michael McNamara

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on October 31, 2020, 10:59:44 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 30, 2020, 11:34:24 PM
I'd suspect 3rd level going back increased the spread.

And boozers being open
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Denn Forever on October 31, 2020, 11:18:37 AM
maybe it's been discused already, but the virus is mutating.  worrying wrt vacine.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/majority-of-irish-covid-19-cases-come-from-variant-that-originated-in-spain-study-1.4394152
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 31, 2020, 09:24:33 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on October 31, 2020, 11:18:37 AM
maybe it's been discused already, but the virus is mutating.  worrying wrt vacine.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/majority-of-irish-covid-19-cases-come-from-variant-that-originated-in-spain-study-1.4394152

they do track these mutations to see how it spreads, but this virus mutates much less the flu and it does not necessarily affect a vaccine.
The problem is travel to some extent, but also because the people who did go to Spain this year were often reckless in how they behaved there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 10:16:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 29, 2020, 09:43:22 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 29, 2020, 09:26:04 AM
Quote from: stephenite on October 29, 2020, 12:44:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 08:01:26 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 28, 2020, 07:41:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 06:34:36 PM
There have been 9 more Covid-19 deaths in the 6 counties, including one person aged under 19.
840 new cases were also reported today, resulting from tests on 3,722 individuals, which is 22.5% positivity which isn't great.

yet again the 26 counties has less cases, 676, than the wee 6.
Lowest daily case number in the ROI since October 9th. Seven day average has fallen now for 4 days in a row.
Yet more evidence, as if it was needed, that lockdowns work

I'm just coming out of (apparently) one of the harshest lockdowns globally. Definitely worked
Lockdowns are painful and nobody wants them, but they clearly work as the best way to reduce cases of Covid, and therefore reduce hospital admissions from Covid, which can allow our Health Service (which already was only mediocre (being generous)) to deal with normal health requirements. Hopefully we'll continue down the route of cases coming down day-by-day and don't overact if there's an outlier one-off day which shows an increase or a too-good-to-be-true decrease.

They key will be how "we" react when we get the numbers down and move out of Level 5. I feel desperately sorry for those business owners and employees who are worst hit by the restrictions. We owe it to them to behave strictly in accordance with Level 2 and 3 (or whatever we move to) when we come out of Level 5.  And of course our Test and Trace system will be absolutely critical.

I understand we're close to bringing in the new antigen testing that is able to mean almost instant test results. Albeit it's not as reliable (and the current testing system isn't the most reliable!), so will be interesting to see how that develops.

More Covid tunnel vision.

They work on a single perspective of reducing virus transmission but cause complete carnage to the economy, other health services, support services to vulnerable people, increased domestic violence cases and so on and so forth.

Lockdowns don't work.

Angelo, time to set out your stall.

Set out your proposed strategy. The steps, the likely death toll, the impact on the NHS, the impact on the economy. Let's hear it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 01, 2020, 09:37:06 AM
Sweet Jesus.  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 01, 2020, 10:10:25 AM
Time yet for Angelo... that's twice he was put in his box, disappeared for few pages but will be roaring back soon enough
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 01, 2020, 11:14:46 AM
He's too busy sorting out Leo these days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on November 01, 2020, 06:03:45 PM

Weekly numbers in the ROI good progress on cases.

Cases 4940 (2254 less cases than last week)
Reported Deaths 33  ( 3 more than last week)

In hospital 325 ( 6 more than last week)
ICU 47 ( 9 more than last week)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 02, 2020, 12:54:00 PM
Good article from the Spectator of all places for those lauding the Swedish model.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-lockdown-sceptics-get-wrong-about-sweden
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on November 02, 2020, 01:51:11 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on November 02, 2020, 12:54:00 PM
Good article from the Spectator of all places for those lauding the Swedish model.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-lockdown-sceptics-get-wrong-about-sweden

Time magazine had an article two weeks ago warning Sweden's approach wasn't working and since then cases there have shot up and had their highest ever daily figure last week.

They have implemented local lockdowns in some towns now roughly equivalent to Level 3 here to try get case numbers down. That they have highest no. of covid cases compared to all their neighbouring Nordic countries isn't a coincidence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 02:14:36 PM
Quote from: stephenite on October 29, 2020, 12:44:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 08:01:26 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 28, 2020, 07:41:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 06:34:36 PM
There have been 9 more Covid-19 deaths in the 6 counties, including one person aged under 19.
840 new cases were also reported today, resulting from tests on 3,722 individuals, which is 22.5% positivity which isn't great.

yet again the 26 counties has less cases, 676, than the wee 6.
Lowest daily case number in the ROI since October 9th. Seven day average has fallen now for 4 days in a row.
Yet more evidence, as if it was needed, that lockdowns work

I'm just coming out of (apparently) one of the harshest lockdowns globally. Definitely worked
I'm presuming you're talking about Victoria here

From the outside, it would appear to me that the Victoria state government have done a remarkable job in the face of a rabid right-wing Australian media who peddled the typical snake oil we're all now familiar with, except on steroids

They decided on a policy of crushing the virus and put 100% into achieving that

It was a tough slog, but they seem to be seeing the benefits now





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on November 02, 2020, 02:55:07 PM
Don't forget folks:

- Right is bad, left is good.

And it works just as well when said in reverse:

- Bad is right, good is left.


Look I know what you're now thinking.... you don't live in a country where right or left matters. But get with the system would you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 03:00:10 PM
Who could have guessed that Wobbler would turn out to be a fan of Andrew Bolt and Alan Jones

Probably everybody - if they knew who Bolt and Jones were
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 02, 2020, 10:44:02 PM
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/02/t-cell-covid-immunity-present-in-adults-six-months-after-first-infection

Potential good news
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 03, 2020, 09:24:47 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 10:16:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 29, 2020, 09:43:22 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 29, 2020, 09:26:04 AM
Quote from: stephenite on October 29, 2020, 12:44:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 08:01:26 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 28, 2020, 07:41:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 06:34:36 PM
There have been 9 more Covid-19 deaths in the 6 counties, including one person aged under 19.
840 new cases were also reported today, resulting from tests on 3,722 individuals, which is 22.5% positivity which isn't great.

yet again the 26 counties has less cases, 676, than the wee 6.
Lowest daily case number in the ROI since October 9th. Seven day average has fallen now for 4 days in a row.
Yet more evidence, as if it was needed, that lockdowns work

I'm just coming out of (apparently) one of the harshest lockdowns globally. Definitely worked
Lockdowns are painful and nobody wants them, but they clearly work as the best way to reduce cases of Covid, and therefore reduce hospital admissions from Covid, which can allow our Health Service (which already was only mediocre (being generous)) to deal with normal health requirements. Hopefully we'll continue down the route of cases coming down day-by-day and don't overact if there's an outlier one-off day which shows an increase or a too-good-to-be-true decrease.

They key will be how "we" react when we get the numbers down and move out of Level 5. I feel desperately sorry for those business owners and employees who are worst hit by the restrictions. We owe it to them to behave strictly in accordance with Level 2 and 3 (or whatever we move to) when we come out of Level 5.  And of course our Test and Trace system will be absolutely critical.

I understand we're close to bringing in the new antigen testing that is able to mean almost instant test results. Albeit it's not as reliable (and the current testing system isn't the most reliable!), so will be interesting to see how that develops.

More Covid tunnel vision.

They work on a single perspective of reducing virus transmission but cause complete carnage to the economy, other health services, support services to vulnerable people, increased domestic violence cases and so on and so forth.

Lockdowns don't work.

Angelo, time to set out your stall.

Set out your proposed strategy. The steps, the likely death toll, the impact on the NHS, the impact on the economy. Let's hear it.

Every medical advisor to the government has got this wrong to date, what are your thoughts, your proposed strategy,  likely death toll, impact on the NHS, impact on the economy, lets hear it!  Or are you happy with the failing narrative of lockdown and the ridiculous rules which make little or no sense but to punish the most vulnerable in society?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2020, 12:01:37 PM
Quote from: Seaney on November 03, 2020, 09:24:47 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 10:16:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 29, 2020, 09:43:22 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 29, 2020, 09:26:04 AM
Quote from: stephenite on October 29, 2020, 12:44:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 08:01:26 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 28, 2020, 07:41:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 06:34:36 PM
There have been 9 more Covid-19 deaths in the 6 counties, including one person aged under 19.
840 new cases were also reported today, resulting from tests on 3,722 individuals, which is 22.5% positivity which isn't great.

yet again the 26 counties has less cases, 676, than the wee 6.
Lowest daily case number in the ROI since October 9th. Seven day average has fallen now for 4 days in a row.
Yet more evidence, as if it was needed, that lockdowns work

I'm just coming out of (apparently) one of the harshest lockdowns globally. Definitely worked
Lockdowns are painful and nobody wants them, but they clearly work as the best way to reduce cases of Covid, and therefore reduce hospital admissions from Covid, which can allow our Health Service (which already was only mediocre (being generous)) to deal with normal health requirements. Hopefully we'll continue down the route of cases coming down day-by-day and don't overact if there's an outlier one-off day which shows an increase or a too-good-to-be-true decrease.

They key will be how "we" react when we get the numbers down and move out of Level 5. I feel desperately sorry for those business owners and employees who are worst hit by the restrictions. We owe it to them to behave strictly in accordance with Level 2 and 3 (or whatever we move to) when we come out of Level 5.  And of course our Test and Trace system will be absolutely critical.

I understand we're close to bringing in the new antigen testing that is able to mean almost instant test results. Albeit it's not as reliable (and the current testing system isn't the most reliable!), so will be interesting to see how that develops.

More Covid tunnel vision.

They work on a single perspective of reducing virus transmission but cause complete carnage to the economy, other health services, support services to vulnerable people, increased domestic violence cases and so on and so forth.

Lockdowns don't work.

Angelo, time to set out your stall.

Set out your proposed strategy. The steps, the likely death toll, the impact on the NHS, the impact on the economy. Let's hear it.

Every medical advisor to the government has got this wrong to date, what are your thoughts, your proposed strategy,  likely death toll, impact on the NHS, impact on the economy, lets hear it!  Or are you happy with the failing narrative of lockdown and the ridiculous rules which make little or no sense but to punish the most vulnerable in society?

It seems to me the most vulnerable in society (the elderly0 are being let down by people not giving a shit about this virus and wanting things opened up and carry on regardless..

I've a very good friend who every week throws out the same narrative , when your times up you times up! So I ask, if your daughter caught it and was very ill or worse would you have the same opinion, and she has!! Crazy, so I don't talk about it anymore as she'll be that we are all losing out and her view is that elderly people will die and flu is worse and blah blah
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 01:24:17 PM
Quote from: Seaney on November 03, 2020, 09:24:47 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 10:16:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 29, 2020, 09:43:22 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 29, 2020, 09:26:04 AM
Quote from: stephenite on October 29, 2020, 12:44:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 08:01:26 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 28, 2020, 07:41:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 06:34:36 PM
There have been 9 more Covid-19 deaths in the 6 counties, including one person aged under 19.
840 new cases were also reported today, resulting from tests on 3,722 individuals, which is 22.5% positivity which isn't great.

yet again the 26 counties has less cases, 676, than the wee 6.
Lowest daily case number in the ROI since October 9th. Seven day average has fallen now for 4 days in a row.
Yet more evidence, as if it was needed, that lockdowns work

I'm just coming out of (apparently) one of the harshest lockdowns globally. Definitely worked
Lockdowns are painful and nobody wants them, but they clearly work as the best way to reduce cases of Covid, and therefore reduce hospital admissions from Covid, which can allow our Health Service (which already was only mediocre (being generous)) to deal with normal health requirements. Hopefully we'll continue down the route of cases coming down day-by-day and don't overact if there's an outlier one-off day which shows an increase or a too-good-to-be-true decrease.

They key will be how "we" react when we get the numbers down and move out of Level 5. I feel desperately sorry for those business owners and employees who are worst hit by the restrictions. We owe it to them to behave strictly in accordance with Level 2 and 3 (or whatever we move to) when we come out of Level 5.  And of course our Test and Trace system will be absolutely critical.

I understand we're close to bringing in the new antigen testing that is able to mean almost instant test results. Albeit it's not as reliable (and the current testing system isn't the most reliable!), so will be interesting to see how that develops.

More Covid tunnel vision.

They work on a single perspective of reducing virus transmission but cause complete carnage to the economy, other health services, support services to vulnerable people, increased domestic violence cases and so on and so forth.

Lockdowns don't work.

Angelo, time to set out your stall.

Set out your proposed strategy. The steps, the likely death toll, the impact on the NHS, the impact on the economy. Let's hear it.

Every medical advisor to the government has got this wrong to date, what are your thoughts, your proposed strategy,  likely death toll, impact on the NHS, impact on the economy, lets hear it!  Or are you happy with the failing narrative of lockdown and the ridiculous rules which make little or no sense but to punish the most vulnerable in society?

I wonder where Angelo has gone on this one.

So firstly my reasons for posting the questions to Angelo.

He consistently alludes to things like:
There is an economic consequence to lockdowns
There is a mental health impact to lock downs
We just accept Flu
The transmissibility of COVID-19 is congruous with the flu

I could go on.

There is however no alternative plan and no recognition by Angelo that not locking down has an impact on mental health, the economy etc.

So that is where I am coming from.

Angelo picks up a line like WHO's critique of lockdowns and wilfully misinterprets that as a rejection of lockdowns when in reality it's a warning that if to don't take quick measures you will be forced to use lockdowns.

Angelo does this over and over again. It's only right that he should be challenged to put some basic framework to his ramblings. He is the one obsessed with death tolls ( chiefly re flu) as the sole barometer of success. I don't play that game.

As for my own views on lockdown I believe the current English lockdown is completely necessary. It should have been done earlier and if the correct steps are not taken now there is an increased likelihood that it will be needed again. I don't think anyone can rule it out being needed in the future. Personally I would expect one to overlap with February's mid term break.

The steps that need taken now include
An objective assessment of the capabilities of test, track and trace.
The identified gaps to be sorted. Probably need to look internationally for a functioning blueprint
A sensecheck on where all the various vaccines and treatments are at. We can't compromise on safety. The vaccine must be safe. But we can compromise on efficacy. During the winter period we can move ahead with vaccines and treatments that might only help 50% or even 40 or 30% of people. Any progress can be targeted on key workers and then the most vulnerable.
We need to pay those with positive tests to stay at home if they can't work from home.

But given you are using lines like every medical adviser has got this wrong I'm guessing I'm wasting my time
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 03, 2020, 01:40:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2020, 12:01:37 PM


It seems to me the most vulnerable in society (the elderly0 are being let down by people not giving a shit about this virus and wanting things opened up and carry on regardless..

I've a very good friend who every week throws out the same narrative , when your times up you times up! So I ask, if your daughter caught it and was very ill or worse would you have the same opinion, and she has!! Crazy, so I don't talk about it anymore as she'll be that we are all losing out and her view is that elderly people will die and flu is worse and blah blah

No idea what you are saying there - have you been on the beer?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 03, 2020, 01:42:15 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 01:24:17 PM

But given you are using lines like every medical adviser has got this wrong I'm guessing I'm wasting my time

I hate these massive pages of quotes - show me a single medical advisor who has gotten it correct with death predictions and the overwhelming of the NHS.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on November 03, 2020, 01:47:41 PM
The hospital situation has stabilised in the ROI.

Last Tuesday in hospital 354 and in ICU 38. Compared to now 307 and 42.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 03, 2020, 01:50:58 PM
Mass testing in Liverpool then. Liverpool has been one of the hotspots, for want of a better word since this whole thing kicked off.

Presume if you choose not to get tested, you must self isolate or would that be too much like common sense?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on November 03, 2020, 01:53:25 PM
Angelo has scuttled back off under his rock.  But I'll give you a summary of his reply;

Random Insult
Acceptable Death
Mental health
Stupid scientists
Blowhard
Double digit multiples
WHO
Life expectancy
Random Insult
Domestic violence
Flu
Novel disease
Impossible to know
Wait and see
Random Insult
Anomaly in April
Another insult to finish

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 01:55:39 PM
Quote from: Seaney on November 03, 2020, 01:42:15 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 01:24:17 PM

But given you are using lines like every medical adviser has got this wrong I'm guessing I'm wasting my time

I hate these massive pages of quotes - show me a single medical advisor who has gotten it correct with death predictions and the overwhelming of the NHS.

I'm not aware of any death predictions by medical advisers. I can't point to anybody getting it right or wrong
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 03, 2020, 02:05:01 PM
The hospitals in the north were at over 100% capacity last week. Granted now they're not however people have died which would have presumably freed up space plus we are in a lockdown period.  I would say that's pretty close to over run. Hopefully, hopefully, we are coming out the other side of this wave as hospital capacity is improving but I guess we will see over the next week or two. In addition to that there's ~350 in inpatients which has been growing while wiggle room for capacity has been growing so you'd have to assume that freeing up space from other procedures etc has allowed this to happen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on November 03, 2020, 02:44:18 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 03, 2020, 01:50:58 PM
Mass testing in Liverpool then. Liverpool has been one of the hotspots, for want of a better word since this whole thing kicked off.

Presume if you choose not to get tested, you must self isolate or would that be too much like common sense?
Haven't read the detail on Liverpool but did read about Slovakia's mass testing of the whole population over 10 years of age. Total population is 3.6m

All voluntary. People in "at risk" categories were not part of it as they should be taking greater care anyway. It was the Antigen testing, which gives results in 15 minutes and doesn't require a lab to perform it. Not as good as a lab test but reasonably good.

Anyone who gets the test and passes the test gets a cert and they are free to go about their business as normal. They need to show the cert when they enter a pub, restaurant, etc.
Anyone without such a cert seems to be effectively in a Level 5 equivalent restriction.

Of course the test is a point-in-time test, so someone who is negative today could catch the virus tomorrow. But if they are only interacting with other people who have tested negative, then presumably the chance of catching the virus is reduced.

It'll be interesting to see how they get on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 03, 2020, 02:46:05 PM
The problem about the testing is one has to rely on people waiting on results or getting positive results doing the right thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on November 03, 2020, 02:51:46 PM
Quote from: Seaney on November 03, 2020, 02:46:05 PM
The problem about the testing is one has to rely on people waiting on results or getting positive results doing the right thing.

Very true.

And when you have people running around telling them "never worry, it's only the flu", it makes it very difficult to reinforce this requirement.

On the other hand, it helps that you only have to wait 15 minutes for this result.

The world will be watching this experiment very closely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 03, 2020, 02:54:47 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 03, 2020, 02:44:18 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 03, 2020, 01:50:58 PM
Mass testing in Liverpool then. Liverpool has been one of the hotspots, for want of a better word since this whole thing kicked off.

Presume if you choose not to get tested, you must self isolate or would that be too much like common sense?
Haven't read the detail on Liverpool but did read about Slovakia's mass testing of the whole population over 10 years of age. Total population is 3.6m

All voluntary. People in "at risk" categories were not part of it as they should be taking greater care anyway. It was the Antigen testing, which gives results in 15 minutes and doesn't require a lab to perform it. Not as good as a lab test but reasonably good.

Anyone who gets the test and passes the test gets a cert and they are free to go about their business as normal. They need to show the cert when they enter a pub, restaurant, etc.
Anyone without such a cert seems to be effectively in a Level 5 equivalent restriction.

Of course the test is a point-in-time test, so someone who is negative today could catch the virus tomorrow. But if they are only interacting with other people who have tested negative, then presumably the chance of catching the virus is reduced.

It'll be interesting to see how they get on.

I don't think anyone would argue here on the first point in bold if that was something we followed here hypothetically? I mean you would have the odd one objecting to Govt having DNA (for varying reasons I suppose....going on our past here  :-X).

On the second point, I think over say, a 14 day period, maybe you get tested 3 times in that period? - it would certainly narrow the net on the Asymptomatic cases which are the ones that are causing the headache really. It would give greater data on where people have been in the meantime etc.

I hope the Slovakians set the example for the rest of Europe, it must be an awful pain in the hole to organise, but I think this is the only way to really start to properly firefight this thing head on as opposed to reactionary measures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2020, 03:26:36 PM
Quote from: Seaney on November 03, 2020, 01:40:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 03, 2020, 12:01:37 PM


It seems to me the most vulnerable in society (the elderly0 are being let down by people not giving a shit about this virus and wanting things opened up and carry on regardless..

I've a very good friend who every week throws out the same narrative , when your times up you times up! So I ask, if your daughter caught it and was very ill or worse would you have the same opinion, and she has!! Crazy, so I don't talk about it anymore as she'll be that we are all losing out and her view is that elderly people will die and flu is worse and blah blah

No idea what you are saying there - have you been on the beer?

People are unconcerned about covid, they would much prefer life to be normal, like it was before and have no patients for life as it is at the minute.

These people couldn't give a stuff about mental health, economics, domestic abuse or anything else, otherwise (on this discussion board) they have plenty of posts on threads about the above topics...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 03, 2020, 03:26:48 PM
Speaking to a peruvian a while back I think they had the certificate approach and then the certificates started being sold on the black market!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 03, 2020, 06:39:52 PM
322 reported in 26, 570 in the 6.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on November 03, 2020, 06:51:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 03, 2020, 06:39:52 PM
322 reported in 26, 570 in the 6.

A big drop from 1284 cases reported on October 18th.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 03, 2020, 06:59:44 PM
That Northern figure is the equivalent of around 1400 here.
So a long way to go up there but their eejit 1st Minister says they'll remove restrictions in 10 days time.
Meanwhile NPHET will probably be advising  against opening up travel from/to foreign parts in December.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on November 03, 2020, 07:57:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 03, 2020, 06:59:44 PM
That Northern figure is the equivalent of around 1400 here.
So a long way to go up there but their eejit 1st Minister says they'll remove restrictions in 10 days time.
Meanwhile NPHET will probably be advising  against opening up travel from/to foreign parts in December.

The level of incompetence in the northern executive is unbelievable, out side of Swan (health) and Murphy (finance) the rest appear to be buffoons. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 03, 2020, 08:09:07 PM
Buffoons would be giving some of them too much credit. Numbers are bad but at least daily cases have dropped a lot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 03, 2020, 08:39:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 03, 2020, 06:59:44 PM
That Northern figure is the equivalent of around 1400 here.

The 6 counties continues to have around the same numbers as the 26.

QuoteSo a long way to go up there but their eejit 1st Minister says they'll remove restrictions in 10 days time.
Meanwhile NPHET will probably be advising  against opening up travel from/to foreign parts in December.

(https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/styles/is_large/public/images/w42_43_COVID19_EU_EEA_UK_Subnational_14d_Attack_Rate_0.png?itok=NDM2J0JF)

Perhaps a few Finns and Estonians can come, plus all you want from Taiwan, New Zealand and Australia.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 04, 2020, 01:48:36 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54785032 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54785032)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 06, 2020, 02:06:56 PM
595 cases today(up north). Hospital occupancy down from 100% which is good. Hopefully in the next week or two daily cases dropping and lower r number will keep lowering the occupancy.

Be interesting to see what they do with lockdowns next week. I suspect bars still stuffed but maybe, hopefully, a few more things will open up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 06, 2020, 03:28:23 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 06, 2020, 02:06:56 PM
595 cases today(up north). Hospital occupancy down from 100% which is good. Hopefully in the next week or two daily cases dropping and lower r number will keep lowering the occupancy.

Be interesting to see what they do with lockdowns next week. I suspect bars still stuffed but maybe, hopefully, a few more things will open up.

With those numbers over 3 weeks, is too soon or has it shown that not all bars were not the problem? Colleges?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 06, 2020, 03:37:13 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 06, 2020, 02:06:56 PM
595 cases today(up north). Hospital occupancy down from 100% which is good. Hopefully in the next week or two daily cases dropping and lower r number will keep lowering the occupancy.

Be interesting to see what they do with lockdowns next week. I suspect bars still stuffed but maybe, hopefully, a few more things will open up.

However, hospitals have achieved that by postponing a lot of other stuff.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 06, 2020, 04:03:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 06, 2020, 03:28:23 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 06, 2020, 02:06:56 PM
595 cases today(up north). Hospital occupancy down from 100% which is good. Hopefully in the next week or two daily cases dropping and lower r number will keep lowering the occupancy.

Be interesting to see what they do with lockdowns next week. I suspect bars still stuffed but maybe, hopefully, a few more things will open up.

With those numbers over 3 weeks, is too soon or has it shown that not all bars were not the problem? Colleges?

Bars are and were a very minimal contributing factor, they just are a massive scapegoat.

It's been shown twice now that the bigger factors are elsewhere. And maybe we still don't fully understand that yet. I'm not saying get the bars open this weekend whatsoever, but it's very lazy now to suggest that they are a major factor.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 06, 2020, 04:44:30 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 06, 2020, 04:03:57 PM

Bars are and were a very minimal contributing factor, they just are a massive scapegoat.

It's been shown twice now that the bigger factors are elsewhere. And maybe we still don't fully understand that yet. I'm not saying get the bars open this weekend whatsoever, but it's very lazy now to suggest that they are a major factor.

I thought the era of fake news was over. Bars have been a problem in every country. It has not been shown that the bigger factors are elsewhere, it has only been shown that it is easier to associate people when they are in your house or they sit beside you at school.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 06, 2020, 06:01:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 06, 2020, 03:37:13 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 06, 2020, 02:06:56 PM
595 cases today(up north). Hospital occupancy down from 100% which is good. Hopefully in the next week or two daily cases dropping and lower r number will keep lowering the occupancy.

Be interesting to see what they do with lockdowns next week. I suspect bars still stuffed but maybe, hopefully, a few more things will open up.

However, hospitals have achieved that by postponing a lot of other stuff.

Exactly. Achieved 100% :( This thing has shown us how fragile our health service is. Good work tories  >:(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 06, 2020, 06:12:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 06, 2020, 04:44:30 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 06, 2020, 04:03:57 PM

Bars are and were a very minimal contributing factor, they just are a massive scapegoat.

It's been shown twice now that the bigger factors are elsewhere. And maybe we still don't fully understand that yet. I'm not saying get the bars open this weekend whatsoever, but it's very lazy now to suggest that they are a major factor.

I thought the era of fake news was over. Bars have been a problem in every country. It has not been shown that the bigger factors are elsewhere, it has only been shown that it is easier to associate people when they are in your house or they sit beside you at school.

So after 3 weeks numbers sitting at 600 cases can we still blame the bars? I'm not advocating open up the bars, I'm just not seeing the facts that the bars were or are the major factor that was made out, especially after the effort they made to control their premises..

I still have no clue how this thing just continues to grow with no real established method of controlling it, my daughter is home from college, the other daughter is home from school for next 2 weeks after a kid in their year caught it, mate got it the other week and a few clients have got it very recently, none of them at the pub!

Nearly lost a good client of mine recently, he was very anti mask when I'd been with him, I wonder what his attitude will be when I see him next week
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on November 06, 2020, 07:55:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 06, 2020, 06:12:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 06, 2020, 04:44:30 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 06, 2020, 04:03:57 PM

Bars are and were a very minimal contributing factor, they just are a massive scapegoat.

It's been shown twice now that the bigger factors are elsewhere. And maybe we still don't fully understand that yet. I'm not saying get the bars open this weekend whatsoever, but it's very lazy now to suggest that they are a major factor.

I thought the era of fake news was over. Bars have been a problem in every country. It has not been shown that the bigger factors are elsewhere, it has only been shown that it is easier to associate people when they are in your house or they sit beside you at school.

So after 3 weeks numbers sitting at 600 cases can we still blame the bars? I'm not advocating open up the bars, I'm just not seeing the facts that the bars were or are the major factor that was made out, especially after the effort they made to control their premises..

I still have no clue how this thing just continues to grow with no real established method of controlling it, my daughter is home from college, the other daughter is home from school for next 2 weeks after a kid in their year caught it, mate got it the other week and a few clients have got it very recently, none of them at the pub!

Nearly lost a good client of mine recently, he was very anti mask when I'd been with him, I wonder what his attitude will be when I see him next week

Cases a few weeks back were 1000-1200 a day. There has been a considerable drop in the 14 day rate. Numbers in hospital are still very high but aren't rising anywhere as near as fast as they were a few weeks back. The lockdown of sorts has certainly helped a bit and needs to stay in place for another while.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 06, 2020, 08:00:21 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 06, 2020, 04:44:30 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 06, 2020, 04:03:57 PM

Bars are and were a very minimal contributing factor, they just are a massive scapegoat.

It's been shown twice now that the bigger factors are elsewhere. And maybe we still don't fully understand that yet. I'm not saying get the bars open this weekend whatsoever, but it's very lazy now to suggest that they are a major factor.

I thought the era of fake news was over. Bars have been a problem in every country. It has not been shown that the bigger factors are elsewhere, it has only been shown that it is easier to associate people when they are in your house or they sit beside you at school.

Bars are the easy target as you well know. It's not fake news. It's uncomfortable truth. Of course the spread can happen in a bar, but they were closed for about 6 months first time round....yet here we are, again. It didn't just reappear when they started serving ale. It's the go to buy time tactic which doesn't address anything.

All else fails? Close the bars, hairdressers and the whatever else we reckon we can pin the blame on. It's lazy.

This is the 2nd time around, we'll be in lockdown again in January and it'll be same thing again. Bars et al to blame. There are clearly much bigger and potent causes.

I said it the first time round, makes no difference to me, I don't drink and wouldn't be in a bar but to get a feed. I've no dog in the fight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 06, 2020, 08:32:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 06, 2020, 06:12:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 06, 2020, 04:44:30 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 06, 2020, 04:03:57 PM

Bars are and were a very minimal contributing factor, they just are a massive scapegoat.

It's been shown twice now that the bigger factors are elsewhere. And maybe we still don't fully understand that yet. I'm not saying get the bars open this weekend whatsoever, but it's very lazy now to suggest that they are a major factor.

I thought the era of fake news was over. Bars have been a problem in every country. It has not been shown that the bigger factors are elsewhere, it has only been shown that it is easier to associate people when they are in your house or they sit beside you at school.

So after 3 weeks numbers sitting at 600 cases can we still blame the bars? I'm not advocating open up the bars, I'm just not seeing the facts that the bars were or are the major factor that was made out, especially after the effort they made to control their premises..


Bars are not the only case of transmission of course, but 600 cases represents a reduction, does it not?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 06, 2020, 08:40:32 PM
Yeah but there's been more shut than the bars. I'm sure it helped but it's hard to isolate that specifically to bars I would have thought.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 06, 2020, 08:44:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 06, 2020, 08:40:32 PM
Yeah but there's been more shut than the bars. I'm sure it helped but it's hard to isolate that specifically to bars I would have thought.

They make no effort to trace back to where you got the Covid, so it is hard to isolate anything.
Which is why they need to get cases down and then thoroughly investigate each one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 06, 2020, 08:48:12 PM
Yeah I agree but still think schools / universities going back seem to be the elephant in the room here.

Also they did seem to quantify, up here, how each particular industry was adding to the R number(I think it was r number anyway) in their cases to close them down. I'm not sure how they did that mind you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 06, 2020, 10:18:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 06, 2020, 08:44:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 06, 2020, 08:40:32 PM
Yeah but there's been more shut than the bars. I'm sure it helped but it's hard to isolate that specifically to bars I would have thought.

They make no effort to trace back to where you got the Covid, so it is hard to isolate anything.
Which is why they need to get cases down and then thoroughly investigate each one.

They, the bars? Both my locals did so are you just generalising?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 06, 2020, 10:27:55 PM
Covid is a hoor. It gets worse every week unless there is a lockdown. Lockdown buys time to improve testing but mostly it is wasted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 07, 2020, 12:49:43 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 06, 2020, 10:27:55 PM
Covid is a hoor. It gets worse every week unless there is a lockdown. Lockdown buys time to improve testing but mostly it is wasted.

60,000 cases/day in France, and over 800 deaths. It hasn't gone away, you know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on November 07, 2020, 07:26:19 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 07, 2020, 12:49:43 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 06, 2020, 10:27:55 PM
Covid is a hoor. It gets worse every week unless there is a lockdown. Lockdown buys time to improve testing but mostly it is wasted.

60,000 cases/day in France, and over 800 deaths. It hasn't gone away, you know.

Just seems to be containment - open place up for a while with various levels of contols...followed by a lockdown of some description go get the R number down to 0.5ish.

Then repeat.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on November 07, 2020, 12:28:15 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 07, 2020, 07:26:19 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 07, 2020, 12:49:43 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 06, 2020, 10:27:55 PM
Covid is a hoor. It gets worse every week unless there is a lockdown. Lockdown buys time to improve testing but mostly it is wasted.

60,000 cases/day in France, and over 800 deaths. It hasn't gone away, you know.

Just seems to be containment - open place up for a while with various levels of contols...followed by a lockdown of some description go get the R number down to 0.5ish.

Then repeat.
Life goes on, life goes off, life goes on, life goes off...

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/302b1d8c647717eed077185dafb6d833/tenor.gif?itemid=7443801)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on November 08, 2020, 07:14:20 PM
Weekly numbers update for the ROI, good progress seen again this week.

Cases 3,500 (1,440 less than last week)
Reported deaths 33  (same as last week)

In hospital 281 (44 less than last week)
In ICU 40  ( 7 less)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 09, 2020, 01:11:02 PM
Pfizer vaccine 90% effective in phase 3 trials
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54873105
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 09, 2020, 01:52:57 PM
Great news.

Something concrete positive to move forward with now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 01:55:36 PM
Looks like science won

A few apologies are in order
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 09, 2020, 02:02:52 PM
The question now is....assuming the UK can get 10million batches by end of year as per BBC.

Are we back to 'normal' for Christmas?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 02:03:52 PM
Us poor people in the north will be at the back of the queue.

Boris will have the whole of London through it in no time and the rest of the place will be begging for it...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on November 09, 2020, 03:53:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 09, 2020, 01:11:02 PM
Pfizer vaccine 90% effective in phase 3 trials
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54873105

Further encouraging news. John Bell an expert on vaccines sounds confident hopefully he's right.

https://mobile.twitter.com/newschambers/status/1325825561302806529?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2020, 04:15:19 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 02:03:52 PM
Us poor people in the north will be at the back of the queue.

Boris will have the whole of London through it in no time and the rest of the place will be begging for it...

Should be plenty available as the flat earth brigade and non vaccine crowd will reduce the need. 

Hopefully the NHS get it and then filter it down through the ones in dire need!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 09, 2020, 04:29:28 PM
Very subdued response today on this thread in light of the controversy it's produced over the last 8 or so months considering the apparent end of the pandemic.

As MTR2 says, let the NHS get it and filter it accordingly I suppose from the over 50s up?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 09, 2020, 04:31:03 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 09, 2020, 02:02:52 PM
The question now is....assuming the UK can get 10million batches by end of year as per BBC.

Are we back to 'normal' for Christmas?

Nah. It takes 2 doses for immunity, so best option is that only 5 million will be vaccinated by Christmas.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 09, 2020, 04:37:39 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 09, 2020, 04:31:03 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 09, 2020, 02:02:52 PM
The question now is....assuming the UK can get 10million batches by end of year as per BBC.

Are we back to 'normal' for Christmas?

Nah. It takes 2 doses for immunity, so best option is that only 5 million will be vaccinated by Christmas.

Still, it gives you health workers and old and ill people, and would reduce deaths and stress on the health system. Presumably you'd have the anyone over 55 or so jabbed by Easter.
Of course one of the other vaccines might give you 95% immunity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 09, 2020, 04:41:16 PM
For a few weeks, few months, few years?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 09, 2020, 04:57:37 PM
Quote from: Seaney on November 09, 2020, 04:41:16 PM
For a few weeks, few months, few years?

A few years would be a big success.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 09, 2020, 06:26:23 PM
Quote from: Seaney on November 09, 2020, 04:41:16 PM
For a few weeks, few months, few years?

This is only the first vaccine of 100 of them, if it lasts long enough for a better one to come along than that's grand.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 09, 2020, 06:35:12 PM
270 cases in 26.
471 in 6 (equivalent c1200)
And the Executive are talking about opening everything up this week!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 06:41:51 PM
It's not. No booze and a fair few limitations too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 09, 2020, 06:44:23 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 06:41:51 PM
It's not. No booze and a fair few limitations too.

Still, life is obviously cheaper in the 6 counties.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on November 09, 2020, 06:47:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 06:41:51 PM
It's not. No booze and a fair few limitations too.

Opening restaurants, but not allowing them to sell alcohol must be the stupidest suggestion yet. You either keep them closed(which they should) or allow them to reopen without restrictions on alcohol.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 07:04:44 PM
That's what some of them are saying too. (Well Michael Deane). Hard to disagree.

This alcohol is bad thing is what the DUP have been wanting for years... I am sure they'd have the off licenses shut too if they could.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2020, 07:41:34 PM
Nothing opening up bar wise, cafes may open up can't see any restaurant opening at all, why would you, the margins are tight and alcohol is what brings in the extra money..

But it'll be better in two weeks, that'll be 6 weeks, if nothing has changed then the hairdressers and beauty salons will get the blame.

The reality of the spread is simply not enough people socially distancing, sanitising and so on, if we can bring in up to 30/40 people and carry out my job while following the rules, and enforcing it on others why isn't it possible in other establishments?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on November 09, 2020, 08:18:16 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 07:04:44 PM
That's what some of them are saying too. (Well Michael Deane). Hard to disagree.

This alcohol is bad thing is what the DUP have been wanting for years... I am sure they'd have the off licenses shut too if they could.

The fact is that alcohol increases risk, in terms of hygiene challenges around serving and drinking from glasses. It also causes intoxication ,depresses inhibitions and increases toilet visits, which means that social distancing and hygiene is put at risk . It can cause belligerence and argumentative behaviour , therefore difficulties with enforcement of distancing and go home time.

Much as we can blame DUP for alot of things , this is not a Puritanical attempt to eradicate alcohol. I imagine the executive are attempting to aid the hospitality industry and also protect them and their customers on return. Cafes won't be a problem. Some restaurants may be happy to work with it, and if they are allowed off sales, guests may eat , drive themselves home and enjoy a bottle of wine. hopefully today's better news re the vaccine and other recent positive indicators will
Mean the hospitality industry will be back to normal eventually, but in the meantime the no-alcohol
Option may be a potential "halfway house" (no pun intended)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 09, 2020, 08:20:58 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on November 09, 2020, 06:47:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 06:41:51 PM
It's not. No booze and a fair few limitations too.

Opening restaurants, but not allowing them to sell alcohol must be the stupidest suggestion yet. You either keep them closed(which they should) or allow them to reopen without restrictions on alcohol.

It stops them becoming de facto pubs.
Plenty of people have no problem eating without drinking.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on November 09, 2020, 09:43:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 09, 2020, 08:20:58 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on November 09, 2020, 06:47:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 06:41:51 PM
It's not. No booze and a fair few limitations too.

Opening restaurants, but not allowing them to sell alcohol must be the stupidest suggestion yet. You either keep them closed(which they should) or allow them to reopen without restrictions on alcohol.

It stops them becoming de facto pubs.
Plenty of people have no problem eating without drinking.

The wine/drinks etc is were the restaurants make their biggest margins/profits. With reduced capacity and no alcohol sales it won't be worthwhile for some restaurants to even open
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 09, 2020, 09:50:09 PM
No agreement at Stormont about what to do after this Friday. Sinn Feins "restaurants with no alcohol" brainwave is now reportedly off the table.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 10:04:20 PM
Can they not open cafes feck sake.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2020, 10:07:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 10:04:20 PM
Can they not open cafes feck sake.

That crowd couldn't open a can of beans without f**king it up!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 10, 2020, 12:08:34 AM
Shambles
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 08:09:16 AM
It seems to be who can be the most draconian, Nicola Mallon on yapping about keeping the restrictions, whilst she keeps getting a lucrative salary as they all did when none of them worked for years, and these people are meant to represent us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 10, 2020, 10:35:33 AM
Quote from: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 08:09:16 AM
It seems to be who can be the most draconian, Nicola Mallon on yapping about keeping the restrictions, whilst she keeps getting a lucrative salary as they all did when none of them worked for years, and these people are meant to represent us.

They do represent us normal people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 10:53:41 AM
Sweet Jesus - is this what it has come to, you are not normal if you question the restrictions.   You obviously have been lucky enough not to be affected by the restrictions financially or emotionally - good for you.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54879863 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54879863)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2020, 11:30:48 AM
Quote from: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 10:53:41 AM
Sweet Jesus - is this what it has come to, you are not normal if you question the restrictions.   You obviously have been lucky enough not to be affected by the restrictions financially or emotionally - good for you.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54879863 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54879863)

Its on TV, 25% hike in calls during the lockdown, these services are still operating so if you are taking abuse at home phone through, don't delay..


In Northern Ireland, a domestic abuse call is made to the PSNI on average every 17 minutes.

Resources like housing, aid and legislation are among a raft of measures that deal with the aftermath of domestic abuse but preventing it, is for Alannah, something that needs to start in the home.

"I have a boy and a girl. Raising your daughter to be aware of it and to recognise red flags and leave and speak out - and that's one thing but if everybody just teaches their daughters to leave, we're not handling the problem, we need to teach our sons as well.

"We need to instil in them the values and the importance of respecting women and respecting themselves and opening up if they are struggling."

All your actions while children grow up will have repercussions, monkey sees and all that .

How would you fix this Seaney? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 12:51:42 PM
I believe it was you said they could just leave.  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2020, 01:17:08 PM
Quote from: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 12:51:42 PM
I believe it was you said they could just leave.  ::)

No plan then? Just using it as a means for your covid denial? You're some man
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 01:24:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2020, 01:17:08 PM
Quote from: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 12:51:42 PM
I believe it was you said they could just leave.  ::)

No plan then? Just using it as a means for your covid denial? You're some man

Yours is they could leave! As I mentioned before I am not a biochemist nor am I a chemical engineer, I am also not a political, a health minister, a mental health expert, you really are over egging your importance on a discussion board with about 20 active members, I have yet to see you answer a question.  The thing about a discussion board is you discuss, you simply distract when you are caught out as clueless time and time again by asking more and more questions. Seriously have you any mates on the outside?

Also when you provide quotes about me being in covid denial, Ill engage with you, it's a pandemic son - who is denying it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2020, 01:33:55 PM
Quote from: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 01:24:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2020, 01:17:08 PM
Quote from: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 12:51:42 PM
I believe it was you said they could just leave.  ::)

No plan then? Just using it as a means for your covid denial? You're some man

Yours is they could leave! As I mentioned before I am not a biochemist nor am I a chemical engineer, I am also not a political, a health minister, a mental health expert, you really are over egging your importance on a discussion board with about 20 active members, I have yet to see you answer a question.  The thing about a discussion board is you discuss, you simply distract when you are caught out as clueless time and time again by asking more and more questions. Seriously have you any mates on the outside?

Also when you provide quotes about me being in covid denial, Ill engage with you, it's a pandemic son - who is denying it?

Answered all your questions, give you a question just now and you failed, miserably, as you have with your daft posts on this subject.

You change usernames on a regular bases which would make me think you are a WUM

I firmly believe you don't give a shit about anyone being abused, but its a handy thing to throw up on a thread to have your opinion on letting things open up as this fix (which isnt perfect) is affecting more lives.. That's bull and you have been pulled on it many times

Mates outside? What are you on? Outside what? and internet forum with anonymous posters. If you feel this is the only place you get attention then I'm sorry for you, pity probably best.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 01:40:20 PM
Answering a question with a question isn't answering the question. With respect everyone knows you are full of shit, any word on them quotes? If not wind your neck in son.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 10, 2020, 02:02:16 PM
https://twitter.com/SJAMcBride/status/1326138156761092099?s=19
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 02:16:46 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54882357 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54882357)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2020, 02:17:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2020, 11:30:48 AM
Quote from: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 10:53:41 AM
Sweet Jesus - is this what it has come to, you are not normal if you question the restrictions.   You obviously have been lucky enough not to be affected by the restrictions financially or emotionally - good for you.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54879863 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54879863)

Its on TV, 25% hike in calls during the lockdown, these services are still operating so if you are taking abuse at home phone through, don't delay..


In Northern Ireland, a domestic abuse call is made to the PSNI on average every 17 minutes.

Resources like housing, aid and legislation are among a raft of measures that deal with the aftermath of domestic abuse but preventing it, is for Alannah, something that needs to start in the home.

"I have a boy and a girl. Raising your daughter to be aware of it and to recognise red flags and leave and speak out - and that's one thing but if everybody just teaches their daughters to leave, we're not handling the problem, we need to teach our sons as well.

"We need to instil in them the values and the importance of respecting women and respecting themselves and opening up if they are struggling."

All your actions while children grow up will have repercussions, monkey sees and all that .

How would you fix this Seaney?

Seaney the bit in bold is a question, now if you can't answer it that's fine, then I'll know you're full of shit
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 02:18:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 10, 2020, 02:02:16 PM
https://twitter.com/SJAMcBride/status/1326138156761092099?s=19

They keep getting their lucrative salaries, as they did when they didn't show up for work for 18 months when they didn't even go to work!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 02:20:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2020, 02:17:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2020, 11:30:48 AM
Quote from: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 10:53:41 AM
Sweet Jesus - is this what it has come to, you are not normal if you question the restrictions.   You obviously have been lucky enough not to be affected by the restrictions financially or emotionally - good for you.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54879863 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54879863)

Its on TV, 25% hike in calls during the lockdown, these services are still operating so if you are taking abuse at home phone through, don't delay..


In Northern Ireland, a domestic abuse call is made to the PSNI on average every 17 minutes.

Resources like housing, aid and legislation are among a raft of measures that deal with the aftermath of domestic abuse but preventing it, is for Alannah, something that needs to start in the home.

"I have a boy and a girl. Raising your daughter to be aware of it and to recognise red flags and leave and speak out - and that's one thing but if everybody just teaches their daughters to leave, we're not handling the problem, we need to teach our sons as well.

"We need to instil in them the values and the importance of respecting women and respecting themselves and opening up if they are struggling."

All your actions while children grow up will have repercussions, monkey sees and all that .

How would you fix this Seaney?

Seaney the bit in bold is a question, now if you can't answer it that's fine, then I'll know you're full of shit

How would you fix it, tell them to grow a set and leave?  Got those quotes yet? You are embarrassing yourself at this stage son, best wind the neck in and walk away.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2020, 02:22:46 PM
Quote from: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 02:20:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2020, 02:17:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2020, 11:30:48 AM
Quote from: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 10:53:41 AM
Sweet Jesus - is this what it has come to, you are not normal if you question the restrictions.   You obviously have been lucky enough not to be affected by the restrictions financially or emotionally - good for you.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54879863 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54879863)

Its on TV, 25% hike in calls during the lockdown, these services are still operating so if you are taking abuse at home phone through, don't delay..


In Northern Ireland, a domestic abuse call is made to the PSNI on average every 17 minutes.

Resources like housing, aid and legislation are among a raft of measures that deal with the aftermath of domestic abuse but preventing it, is for Alannah, something that needs to start in the home.

"I have a boy and a girl. Raising your daughter to be aware of it and to recognise red flags and leave and speak out - and that's one thing but if everybody just teaches their daughters to leave, we're not handling the problem, we need to teach our sons as well.

"We need to instil in them the values and the importance of respecting women and respecting themselves and opening up if they are struggling."

All your actions while children grow up will have repercussions, monkey sees and all that .

How would you fix this Seaney?

Seaney the bit in bold is a question, now if you can't answer it that's fine, then I'll know you're full of shit

How would you fix it, tell them to grow a set and leave?  Got those quotes yet? You are embarrassing yourself at this stage son, best wind the neck in and walk away.

That's another no.. you're fairly racking them up now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 02:26:48 PM
Seriously you must be taking a redner at this moment, else you have no self respect as well as no respect for anyone else and their suffering.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2020, 03:02:57 PM
"Seaney" has got himself into an awful Stew here
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 10, 2020, 03:07:27 PM
Seven day rate per 100,000

🦠NI Average: 198.5

📍Mid Ulster: 260.3
📍Derry & Strabane: 248.2
📍Causeway Coast: 244
📍Armagh, B & Craigavon: 210.6
📍Belfast: 206
📍Antrim & Newtownabbey: 187.8
📍Lisburn & Castlereagh: 187.4
📍Mid & East Antrim: 158.7
📍Ards & N.Down: 133.6
📍Fermanagh & Omagh: 131.8
📍Newry, M & Down: 119.9

No chance of anything opening up this weekend.

Apropos of nothing but I believe the largest pharmaceutical freezer in Europe is in Portadown!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 10, 2020, 03:26:55 PM
Over 500 cases again today. It's really not dropping anywhere near as quick as anyone would like it I suspect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 10, 2020, 03:51:26 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 10, 2020, 03:26:55 PM
Over 500 cases again today. It's really not dropping anywhere near as quick as anyone would like it I suspect.

Also the positivity rate of tests remains something like 20% which is extraordinarily high. The death/cases rate is higher is the 6 counties than the 26 counties, which suggests that NI is not getting all the cases, unless the age profile is different.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 10, 2020, 04:00:38 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on November 10, 2020, 03:07:27 PM
Seven day rate per 100,000

🦠NI Average: 198.5

📍Mid Ulster: 260.3
📍Derry & Strabane: 248.2
📍Causeway Coast: 244
📍Armagh, B & Craigavon: 210.6
📍Belfast: 206
📍Antrim & Newtownabbey: 187.8
📍Lisburn & Castlereagh: 187.4
📍Mid & East Antrim: 158.7
📍Ards & N.Down: 133.6
📍Fermanagh & Omagh: 131.8
📍Newry, M & Down: 119.9

No chance of anything opening up this weekend.

Apropos of nothing but I believe the largest pharmaceutical freezer in Europe is in Portadown!

Fixed that!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 10, 2020, 04:02:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2020, 03:51:26 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 10, 2020, 03:26:55 PM
Over 500 cases again today. It's really not dropping anywhere near as quick as anyone would like it I suspect.

Also the positivity rate of tests remains something like 20% which is extraordinarily high. The death/cases rate is higher is the 6 counties than the 26 counties, which suggests that NI is not getting all the cases, unless the age profile is different.

I believe Craigavon Hospital is chockablock with COVID patients, most of those dying are mainly obese and in their 40s/50s.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 10, 2020, 04:12:40 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on November 10, 2020, 04:02:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2020, 03:51:26 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 10, 2020, 03:26:55 PM
Over 500 cases again today. It's really not dropping anywhere near as quick as anyone would like it I suspect.

Also the positivity rate of tests remains something like 20% which is extraordinarily high. The death/cases rate is higher is the 6 counties than the 26 counties, which suggests that NI is not getting all the cases, unless the age profile is different.

I believe Craigavon Hospital is chockablock with COVID patients, most of those dying are mainly obese and in their 40s/50s.

Unless I'm reading this PDF wrong, it's not even full at minute. Page 20.

https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/health/doh-db-101120.pdf
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 04:16:29 PM
But that doesn't help the fear narrative.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 10, 2020, 04:32:15 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 10, 2020, 04:12:40 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on November 10, 2020, 04:02:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2020, 03:51:26 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 10, 2020, 03:26:55 PM
Over 500 cases again today. It's really not dropping anywhere near as quick as anyone would like it I suspect.

Also the positivity rate of tests remains something like 20% which is extraordinarily high. The death/cases rate is higher is the 6 counties than the 26 counties, which suggests that NI is not getting all the cases, unless the age profile is different.

I believe Craigavon Hospital is chockablock with COVID patients, most of those dying are mainly obese and in their 40s/50s.

Unless I'm reading this PDF wrong, it's not even full at minute. Page 20.

https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/health/doh-db-101120.pdf

Anecdotally from an ICU nurse, the charts back this up c60% of ICU beds in Craigavon taken up by COVID patients.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 10, 2020, 04:55:41 PM
It's tough to get past the anecdotal stuff, so much is still strange about it. Mid Ulster is the Covid hotspot, I live right in the middle of it and you hear the odd story, so and so has it etc. But really I've only heard of about 10-15 people so far in 8 months 100% had it.

I think people are taking people isolating as having 100% got it in their local chat.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 10, 2020, 05:20:56 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 10, 2020, 04:55:41 PM
It's tough to get past the anecdotal stuff, so much is still strange about it. Mid Ulster is the Covid hotspot, I live right in the middle of it and you hear the odd story, so and so has it etc. But really I've only heard of about 10-15 people so far in 8 months 100% had it.

I think people are taking people isolating as having 100% got it in their local chat.

I'm an evidence based researcher by profession so I would only take anecdotal evidence as a possible indicator until I saw the numbers to back it up. I generally would trust the word of an ICU nurse. Up until the last month or so, like yourself, I only knew a few people who had it, including an elderly relative who died from it. Lately the number of people I know who have had it (confirmed positive case) has skyrocketed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on November 10, 2020, 06:00:29 PM
16 deaths reported in the ROI today, 14 of them happened since November 1st and the other two in October. 270 cases reported.

7-day average for cases per day: 421.6
(Previous 7 days: 617.1)

14-day cases/100k: 152.7
(7 days ago: 228.3)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 10, 2020, 06:18:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2020, 03:51:26 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 10, 2020, 03:26:55 PM
Over 500 cases again today. It's really not dropping anywhere near as quick as anyone would like it I suspect.

Also the positivity rate of tests remains something like 20% which is extraordinarily high. The death/cases rate is higher is the 6 counties than the 26 counties, which suggests that NI is not getting all the cases, unless the age profile is different.

Apparently the 7 day average for the north is 11% down from 15 two weeks ago.

(Source dr Lindsay Broadbent on Twitter who is well regarded so I suspect an accurate source.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 10:35:55 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54882357 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54882357)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 10, 2020, 10:41:04 PM
Quote from: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 02:18:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 10, 2020, 02:02:16 PM
https://twitter.com/SJAMcBride/status/1326138156761092099?s=19

They keep getting their lucrative salaries, as they did when they didn't show up for work for 18 months when they didn't even go to work!

Yeah Shinners and Duppers main culprits
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 11, 2020, 01:26:36 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 10, 2020, 06:18:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2020, 03:51:26 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 10, 2020, 03:26:55 PM
Over 500 cases again today. It's really not dropping anywhere near as quick as anyone would like it I suspect.

Also the positivity rate of tests remains something like 20% which is extraordinarily high. The death/cases rate is higher is the 6 counties than the 26 counties, which suggests that NI is not getting all the cases, unless the age profile is different.

Apparently the 7 day average for the north is 11% down from 15 two weeks ago.

(Source dr Lindsay Broadbent on Twitter who is well regarded so I suspect an accurate source.

There is a lack of clarity about positivity rates in the 6 counties, I have seen different figures, but even 11% is not great.

Meanwhile I missed this article earlier, 20% of people with Covid have psychiatric symptoms and mentally ill people are more likely to get it https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1110/1177097-covid-19-and-psychiatric-disorder/

Not sure what this says about Boris and Donald.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on November 11, 2020, 09:01:58 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 03, 2020, 01:24:17 PM
Quote from: Seaney on November 03, 2020, 09:24:47 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 31, 2020, 10:16:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 29, 2020, 09:43:22 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 29, 2020, 09:26:04 AM
Quote from: stephenite on October 29, 2020, 12:44:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2020, 08:01:26 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 28, 2020, 07:41:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 28, 2020, 06:34:36 PM
There have been 9 more Covid-19 deaths in the 6 counties, including one person aged under 19.
840 new cases were also reported today, resulting from tests on 3,722 individuals, which is 22.5% positivity which isn't great.

yet again the 26 counties has less cases, 676, than the wee 6.
Lowest daily case number in the ROI since October 9th. Seven day average has fallen now for 4 days in a row.
Yet more evidence, as if it was needed, that lockdowns work

I'm just coming out of (apparently) one of the harshest lockdowns globally. Definitely worked
Lockdowns are painful and nobody wants them, but they clearly work as the best way to reduce cases of Covid, and therefore reduce hospital admissions from Covid, which can allow our Health Service (which already was only mediocre (being generous)) to deal with normal health requirements. Hopefully we'll continue down the route of cases coming down day-by-day and don't overact if there's an outlier one-off day which shows an increase or a too-good-to-be-true decrease.

They key will be how "we" react when we get the numbers down and move out of Level 5. I feel desperately sorry for those business owners and employees who are worst hit by the restrictions. We owe it to them to behave strictly in accordance with Level 2 and 3 (or whatever we move to) when we come out of Level 5.  And of course our Test and Trace system will be absolutely critical.

I understand we're close to bringing in the new antigen testing that is able to mean almost instant test results. Albeit it's not as reliable (and the current testing system isn't the most reliable!), so will be interesting to see how that develops.

More Covid tunnel vision.

They work on a single perspective of reducing virus transmission but cause complete carnage to the economy, other health services, support services to vulnerable people, increased domestic violence cases and so on and so forth.

Lockdowns don't work.

Angelo, time to set out your stall.

Set out your proposed strategy. The steps, the likely death toll, the impact on the NHS, the impact on the economy. Let's hear it.

Every medical advisor to the government has got this wrong to date, what are your thoughts, your proposed strategy,  likely death toll, impact on the NHS, impact on the economy, lets hear it!  Or are you happy with the failing narrative of lockdown and the ridiculous rules which make little or no sense but to punish the most vulnerable in society?

I wonder where Angelo has gone on this one.

So firstly my reasons for posting the questions to Angelo.

He consistently alludes to things like:
There is an economic consequence to lockdowns
There is a mental health impact to lock downs
We just accept Flu
The transmissibility of COVID-19 is congruous with the flu

I could go on.

There is however no alternative plan and no recognition by Angelo that not locking down has an impact on mental health, the economy etc.

So that is where I am coming from.

Angelo picks up a line like WHO's critique of lockdowns and wilfully misinterprets that as a rejection of lockdowns when in reality it's a warning that if to don't take quick measures you will be forced to use lockdowns.

Angelo does this over and over again. It's only right that he should be challenged to put some basic framework to his ramblings. He is the one obsessed with death tolls ( chiefly re flu) as the sole barometer of success. I don't play that game.

As for my own views on lockdown I believe the current English lockdown is completely necessary. It should have been done earlier and if the correct steps are not taken now there is an increased likelihood that it will be needed again. I don't think anyone can rule it out being needed in the future. Personally I would expect one to overlap with February's mid term break.

The steps that need taken now include
An objective assessment of the capabilities of test, track and trace.
The identified gaps to be sorted. Probably need to look internationally for a functioning blueprint
A sensecheck on where all the various vaccines and treatments are at. We can't compromise on safety. The vaccine must be safe. But we can compromise on efficacy. During the winter period we can move ahead with vaccines and treatments that might only help 50% or even 40 or 30% of people. Any progress can be targeted on key workers and then the most vulnerable.
We need to pay those with positive tests to stay at home if they can't work from home.

But given you are using lines like every medical adviser has got this wrong I'm guessing I'm wasting my time

So still nothing from Angelo. With Seaney now holding the baton I wonder will he do any better??

Surely they have something?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 11, 2020, 09:17:08 AM
QuoteThe two week circuit breaker became four, now they want six and then what? 1,000s of staff in hospitality having their wages cut and no tips in the mouth of Christmas if SF have there way.

Good auld Pootsy making it sectarian again. Sure it's the UUP health minister advocating more of a lockdown but we'll blame SF. (Yes they agree but singled out). I wonder are the DUP not getting as much money in their coffers to not support lockdown as they have made it clear on several occasions they don't really care about peoples livelihoods. Muppets.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on November 11, 2020, 09:40:50 AM
Still a spectrum of opinion out there so people are entitled to make their own judgement in as far as the science is not definitive at this stage. This is worth a listen.
https://adapnation.io/149-sweden-covid-sebastian/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 11, 2020, 11:19:20 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 11, 2020, 09:17:08 AM
QuoteThe two week circuit breaker became four, now they want six and then what? 1,000s of staff in hospitality having their wages cut and no tips in the mouth of Christmas if SF have there way.

Good auld Pootsy making it sectarian again. Sure it's the UUP health minister advocating more of a lockdown but we'll blame SF. (Yes they agree but singled out). I wonder are the DUP not getting as much money in their coffers to not support lockdown as they have made it clear on several occasions they don't really care about peoples livelihoods. Muppets.

What seems to be getting missed here is that large swathes of public irrespective of political stance back the DUP in this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 11, 2020, 11:28:12 AM
Yeah you are probably not wrong to a point but this is not a them and us issue which again they are making it.

I'd be in favour of various things easing but not everything. I don't know if they have that middle ground.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 11, 2020, 12:11:06 PM
I wonder if a lockdown impacted on their lucrative salaries and mental well being would the debate even happen.  The DUP are showing some common sense, Swann, ONeill and the slopes are all on power trips at this stage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 11, 2020, 12:42:33 PM
On a similar theme I am wondering if it has impacted the DUP financially and this is why they're moving on it. I don't really think they're too bothered about the economy etc or at least they've never shown it before. IMO they're getting less money from somewhere or they are just doing the usual divisive thing to try and get themselves some PR / votes. I haven't got faith in them to do a sensible thing - always something in it for them.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 11, 2020, 12:44:21 PM
Quote from: Seaney on November 11, 2020, 12:11:06 PM
I wonder if a lockdown impacted on their lucrative salaries and mental well being would the debate even happen.  The DUP are showing some common sense, Swann, ONeill and the slopes are all on power trips at this stage.

The executive voted 6 to 4 in favour of extending the restrictions. SF, SDLP, UUP and alliance voted in favour.
DUP (4 votes) are abusing the petition of concern to get their way. This is not what it is designed for.
At one stage last night in the meeting they said "the biggest party in the country will not be pushed around".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on November 11, 2020, 12:46:01 PM
Did Mary Lou intervene again as Michelle O'Neill was on board with Foster at the weekend
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 11, 2020, 12:52:05 PM
I don't think she was fully on board - she was compromising on the restaurants with no booze - but you could be on to something. Someone changed position since last weekend - not sure if the DUP have changed their stance or not too.

That petition of concern seriously needs reformed. Abused again. tbh I was surprised they didn't use it last time.

What happens if they can't agree? Lockdown finished?

They need to get more granular on this stuff. e.g. do they all agree places like hairdressers etc can open. If so agreed and move on and then the only things stuck will be the things that they don't agree on.(which is probably a lot lol)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 11, 2020, 01:00:17 PM
In the meantime all those business closed have no clarity on anything, it is a complete shambles.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 11, 2020, 01:03:39 PM
Yep. Again. Or maybe still is a better word as it has never been anything but a shambles.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 11, 2020, 02:18:58 PM
Figures worse than yesterday and still those counts in the DUP want to open everything up.

#Covid19 : Wed Nov 11th

🦠+791 new cases
🦠+8 new deaths

🔹+154 Belfast
🔹+152 Causeway
🔹+73 Armagh B & C
🔹+69 Mid Ulster
🔹+61 Derry Strabane
🔹+48 Ant N'abbey
🔹+47 Ferm & Omagh
🔹+44 Ards N Down
🔹+40 Newry M Down
🔹+42 Lisburn & C'reagh
🔹+35 M&E Antrim

7 day rate per 100,000

🦠NI Average: 206.5
🔺Up from 198.5 yesterday

📍Causeway Coast: 312.8
📍Mid Ulster: 269.1
📍Derry & Strabane: 246.2
📍Belfast: 211.0
📍Armagh, B & Craigavon: 210.1
📍Antrim & Newtownabbey: 189.9
📍Lisburn & Castlereagh: 174.3
📍Mid & East Antrim: 158
📍Fermanagh & Omagh: 143.8
📍Ards & N.Down: 143
📍Newry, M & Down: 117.7
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 11, 2020, 02:20:28 PM
791 :( Jesus.

Steady stream of deaths this week too :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on November 11, 2020, 03:11:10 PM
The conflicted Executive reflects general society.
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/health/covid-ni-doctors-raise-questions-19247173
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 11, 2020, 03:37:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 11, 2020, 02:20:28 PM
791 :( Jesus.


Equivalent of around 2,200 here.
If we had that many nobody would even dare suggest opening things up, would be more like close everything else.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 11, 2020, 03:37:57 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 11, 2020, 03:11:10 PM
The conflicted Executive reflects general society.
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/health/covid-ni-doctors-raise-questions-19247173

Some very suspect logic being used in that article.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on November 11, 2020, 08:56:43 PM
Whats the current rule regarding self-isolation arriving into Dublin from USA and travelling to the North for a few days?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2020, 09:06:23 PM
A family grew up besides us just lost father mother and their 52 year old son inside a week to Covid!

The amount rising currently is out of control
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 10:26:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on November 11, 2020, 08:56:43 PM
Whats the current rule regarding self-isolation arriving into Dublin from USA and travelling to the North for a few days?

If you are travelling for work, you don't actually have to isolate.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-travellers-exempt-from-uk-border-rules/coronavirus-covid-19-travellers-exempt-from-uk-border-rules
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 12:21:09 PM
See a few bars in the City opening tomorrow, they have had enough.

Promises to be interesting viewing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 12, 2020, 12:21:50 PM
The Dirty Onion and the National (bars in Belfast City centre) are saying they are opening tomorrow regardless of any agreement today.
Others could follow.

Stormont rapidly losing any authority.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: square_ball on November 12, 2020, 12:44:12 PM
Stormont now saying regulations don't expire to midnight tomorrow night so bars can't open tomorrow regardless. It's getting worse by the hour.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on November 12, 2020, 12:44:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2020, 09:06:23 PM
A family grew up besides us just lost father mother and their 52 year old son inside a week to Covid!

The amount rising currently is out of control
That is of course tragic for everyone involved with that family but there must be loads to be learned scientifically in really drilling into what made 3 people from one family predisposed to the worst effects of Covid 19. This type of cluster is highly unusual, I think we can agree on that at least.  If we are really going to mitigate against this personally as individuals, which I think has to be starting point for control measures of any kind, this is the sort of information we need more in the public domain. Personally I want to hear it warts and all so I can take steps to improve my immune response when its called on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 12:58:50 PM
Quote from: square_ball on November 12, 2020, 12:44:12 PM
Stormont now saying regulations don't expire to midnight tomorrow night so bars can't open tomorrow regardless. It's getting worse by the hour.

Absolute farce. So they didn't actually know when their own regulations ended it appears?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 01:55:47 PM
The political system in the north is some basket case.

How can a minority call the shots in a case like this?

It's incredibly confusing and extremely hard on businesses to survive in these circumstances.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 01:59:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 01:55:47 PM
The political system in the north is some basket case.

How can a minority call the shots in a case like this?

It's incredibly confusing and extremely hard on businesses to survive in these circumstances.

I always knew resistance would come against restrictions, it seems this may be the start.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 02:02:20 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 01:59:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 01:55:47 PM
The political system in the north is some basket case.

How can a minority call the shots in a case like this?

It's incredibly confusing and extremely hard on businesses to survive in these circumstances.

I always knew resistance would come against restrictions, it seems this may be the start.

It's the confusion though, at the last hour and businesses are none the wise about what they can and can't do.

Whatever about the case at hand, how can the DUP circumvent the majority when it comes to implementing something?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 02:14:20 PM
Clever or Sinister....use of politics by the DUP.

They aren't doing anything illegal, immoral is a very different story.

It's the Alliance get shafted in it all, their vote is essentially useless.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on November 12, 2020, 02:17:40 PM
They are jeopardising the chances of us having a decent Christmas with this carry on.  The numbers will flare up from an already high point.  Wouldn't like to think where they'll be in six weeks if there is no extension to restrictions.
Any one with any sense would see that a further two weeks of restrictions gives us a chance to have a decent December and Christmas.  There will be an inevitable lockdown in January/February when most of the hospitality sector is quiet in any case.  The hope would be that this will be the last lockdown that these businesses would endure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on November 12, 2020, 02:19:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 02:14:20 PM
Clever or Sinister....use of politics by the DUP.

They aren't doing anything illegal, immoral is a very different story.

It's the Alliance get shafted in it all, their vote is essentially useless.
I've no sympathy for alliance. They refused to support an all-island approach and have consistently (along with SDLP) made out as if this is a SF/DUP squabble when in reality it is DUP alone vetoing an extension to the restrictions
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on November 12, 2020, 02:20:24 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 12:58:50 PM
Quote from: square_ball on November 12, 2020, 12:44:12 PM
Stormont now saying regulations don't expire to midnight tomorrow night so bars can't open tomorrow regardless. It's getting worse by the hour.

Absolute farce. So they didn't actually know when their own regulations ended it appears?

It appears the regulations didnt  come into place until Friday at midnight by the time everything got finalised due to the ineptitude on the hill.
Even though everywhere shut the Thursday (at the behest of government) it didnt officially start on the Friday night.

A bunch of clusterfucks from top to bottom
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on November 12, 2020, 02:20:53 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 02:14:20 PM
Clever or Sinister....use of politics by the DUP.
Was listening to the news on Today FM there and that fool Fitzpatrick from Louth was on looking the military to guard the border to stop cross-border travel.  Another win for the DUP.  There is a golf course close to where I live that is full of southern reg cars as they can't get a game in the South.  No word of that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on November 12, 2020, 02:29:00 PM
Quote from: mackers on November 12, 2020, 02:20:53 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 02:14:20 PM
Clever or Sinister....use of politics by the DUP.
Was listening to the news on Today FM there and that fool Fitzpatrick from Louth was on looking the military to guard the border to stop cross-border travel.  Another win for the DUP.  There is a golf course close to where I live that is full of southern reg cars as they can't get a game in the South.  No word of that.

Or any word of the border towns in the North full of southern reg cars.

w**ker.

Just playing right into their hands
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 02:29:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on November 12, 2020, 02:20:24 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 12:58:50 PM
Quote from: square_ball on November 12, 2020, 12:44:12 PM
Stormont now saying regulations don't expire to midnight tomorrow night so bars can't open tomorrow regardless. It's getting worse by the hour.

Absolute farce. So they didn't actually know when their own regulations ended it appears?

It appears the regulations didnt  come into place until Friday at midnight by the time everything got finalised due to the ineptitude on the hill.
Even though everywhere shut the Thursday (at the behest of government) it didnt officially start on the Friday night.

A bunch of clusterfucks from top to bottom

Aye Chris Hazzard SF didnt know on Radio Ulster was it Thurs or Fri. Anyhow it was originally 4 weeks and the pressure is now coming from businesses across the political divide to stick to that. Ignore social media, i've never seen as many nationalists backing  the DUP on anything before until now. Its is not a sectarian vote at all, its about differing views on the crisis within the  economy. Personally im for another 2 weeks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 02:35:41 PM
Whatever about the issue at hand, it is absolutely mental that 33% of the Executive can overrule 67%.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on November 12, 2020, 02:38:43 PM
Quote from: Taylor on November 12, 2020, 02:29:00 PM
Quote from: mackers on November 12, 2020, 02:20:53 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 02:14:20 PM
Clever or Sinister....use of politics by the DUP.
Was listening to the news on Today FM there and that fool Fitzpatrick from Louth was on looking the military to guard the border to stop cross-border travel.  Another win for the DUP.  There is a golf course close to where I live that is full of southern reg cars as they can't get a game in the South.  No word of that.

Or any word of the border towns in the North full of southern reg cars.

w**ker.

Just playing right into their hands

If they re-open the shops next week wait for the influx from the south over the next two weeks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 02:41:17 PM
I've seen a lot of mentionings on Twitter the last few days of suicides being up 200% during lockdown.

First of all it is important to see if that can be backed up.

If it can be backed up, at what cost have lockdown restrictions came at. Is Covid tunnel vision doing more damage than good.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 02:50:46 PM
DUP now using delay tactics....

https://twitter.com/BBCJayneMcC/status/1326870440653025281?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on November 12, 2020, 03:14:50 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on November 12, 2020, 02:38:43 PM
Quote from: Taylor on November 12, 2020, 02:29:00 PM
Quote from: mackers on November 12, 2020, 02:20:53 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 02:14:20 PM
Clever or Sinister....use of politics by the DUP.
Was listening to the news on Today FM there and that fool Fitzpatrick from Louth was on looking the military to guard the border to stop cross-border travel.  Another win for the DUP.  There is a golf course close to where I live that is full of southern reg cars as they can't get a game in the South.  No word of that.

Or any word of the border towns in the North full of southern reg cars.

w**ker.

Just playing right into their hands

If they re-open the shops next week wait for the influx from the south over the next two weeks
The shops are open here under current restrictions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on November 12, 2020, 04:04:14 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 02:41:17 PM
I've seen a lot of mentionings on Twitter the last few days of suicides being up 200% during lockdown.

First of all it is important to see if that can be backed up.

If it can be backed up, at what cost have lockdown restrictions came at. Is Covid tunnel vision doing more damage than good.

Well you have DUP's backing. Are you doing anything to lobby the other parties?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on November 12, 2020, 04:08:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 12, 2020, 02:19:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 02:14:20 PM
Clever or Sinister....use of politics by the DUP.

They aren't doing anything illegal, immoral is a very different story.

It's the Alliance get shafted in it all, their vote is essentially useless.
I've no sympathy for alliance. They refused to support an all-island approach and have consistently (along with SDLP) made out as if this is a SF/DUP squabble when in reality it is DUP alone vetoing an extension to the restrictions

Can you spell out why an all-island approach would have worked? Or even what it means? Would it involve RoI doing its thing and NI just following or would say for example the RoI government go against its own scientific advice in order to co-ordinate with NI? We can see what happen when ROI politicians did go against their scientific advice?

What about the economic packages? Would they have to be aligned north and south? How would that have worked?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on November 12, 2020, 04:08:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 02:41:17 PM
I've seen a lot of mentionings on Twitter the last few days of suicides being up 200% during lockdown.

First of all it is important to see if that can be backed up.

If it can be backed up, at what cost have lockdown restrictions came at. Is Covid tunnel vision doing more damage than good.

It can't be backed up because it isn't true
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on November 12, 2020, 04:14:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 02:41:17 PM
Is Covid tunnel vision doing more damage than good.

Perhaps if someone would point out an alternative we could make an assessment?

You would have to wonder why nobody has set out an alternative
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on November 12, 2020, 04:15:25 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on November 12, 2020, 04:08:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 02:41:17 PM
I've seen a lot of mentionings on Twitter the last few days of suicides being up 200% during lockdown.

First of all it is important to see if that can be backed up.

If it can be backed up, at what cost have lockdown restrictions came at. Is Covid tunnel vision doing more damage than good.

It can't be backed up because it isn't true

Im reeling
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on November 12, 2020, 04:16:37 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 02:50:46 PM
DUP now using delay tactics....

https://twitter.com/BBCJayneMcC/status/1326870440653025281?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

It was pushed back because Naomi Long was speaking to justice committee about the domestic abuse bill
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on November 12, 2020, 04:18:12 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 12, 2020, 04:15:25 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on November 12, 2020, 04:08:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 02:41:17 PM
I've seen a lot of mentionings on Twitter the last few days of suicides being up 200% during lockdown.

First of all it is important to see if that can be backed up.

If it can be backed up, at what cost have lockdown restrictions came at. Is Covid tunnel vision doing more damage than good.

It can't be backed up because it isn't true

Im reeling

https://www.samaritans.org/news/samaritans-responds-ncish-new-suicide-figures-england/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on November 12, 2020, 04:20:14 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on November 12, 2020, 04:18:12 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 12, 2020, 04:15:25 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on November 12, 2020, 04:08:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 02:41:17 PM
I've seen a lot of mentionings on Twitter the last few days of suicides being up 200% during lockdown.

First of all it is important to see if that can be backed up.

If it can be backed up, at what cost have lockdown restrictions came at. Is Covid tunnel vision doing more damage than good.

It can't be backed up because it isn't true

Im reeling

https://www.samaritans.org/news/samaritans-responds-ncish-new-suicide-figures-england/

Still reeling. There is no way Angelo got this wrong. He got his facts from twitter and everything
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 04:40:32 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 12, 2020, 04:20:14 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on November 12, 2020, 04:18:12 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 12, 2020, 04:15:25 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on November 12, 2020, 04:08:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 02:41:17 PM
I've seen a lot of mentionings on Twitter the last few days of suicides being up 200% during lockdown.

First of all it is important to see if that can be backed up.

If it can be backed up, at what cost have lockdown restrictions came at. Is Covid tunnel vision doing more damage than good.

It can't be backed up because it isn't true

Im reeling

https://www.samaritans.org/news/samaritans-responds-ncish-new-suicide-figures-england/

Still reeling. There is no way Angelo got this wrong. He got his facts from twitter and everything

You're not the brightest. I was dubious to it being true, I saw it mentioned and equired to such.

You have asked me what I would do countless times and you've either donated your brain some time ago or you can't read. I have addressed that question on numerous occasions clearly and concisely on what I'd do. What part of it did you not understand?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 04:43:41 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:48:17 AM


I don't think there is any adult or adolescent who does not know that the flu can be fatal.

Meanwhile it was yourself who left us with this zinger of a comment.

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/parents-dont-take-flu-seriously
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 12, 2020, 04:53:17 PM
15 further Coronavirus deaths in Northern Ireland, 11 occurring during past 24 hours. Also 548 new cases from tests on 2,892 individual

Good to see that everyone realises that there is a problem
https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2020/1111/1177574-coronavirus-northern-ireland-belfast-party/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on November 12, 2020, 04:58:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 04:43:41 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 15, 2020, 09:48:17 AM


I don't think there is any adult or adolescent who does not know that the flu can be fatal.

Meanwhile it was yourself who left us with this zinger of a comment.

https://www.health.com/condition/cold-flu-sinus/parents-dont-take-flu-seriously

I probably should have footnoted my comment to allow for some stupid Americans.

Anyway since you are adept at trawling back for a quote trawl for the one where you answered the specific questions I set out for you (twice).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 04:59:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 12, 2020, 04:53:17 PM
15 further Coronavirus deaths in Northern Ireland, 11 occurring during past 24 hours. Also 548 new cases from tests on 2,892 individual

Good to see that everyone realises that there is a problem
https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2020/1111/1177574-coronavirus-northern-ireland-belfast-party/

It's only going to get worse and worse until it crumbles from here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on November 12, 2020, 05:12:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 12, 2020, 04:53:17 PM
15 further Coronavirus deaths in Northern Ireland, 11 occurring during past 24 hours. Also 548 new cases from tests on 2,892 individual

Good to see that everyone realises that there is a problem
https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2020/1111/1177574-coronavirus-northern-ireland-belfast-party/
Pretty brainless stuff. What is it that they don't understand?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 12, 2020, 05:15:57 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 04:59:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 12, 2020, 04:53:17 PM
15 further Coronavirus deaths in Northern Ireland, 11 occurring during past 24 hours. Also 548 new cases from tests on 2,892 individual

Good to see that everyone realises that there is a problem
https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2020/1111/1177574-coronavirus-northern-ireland-belfast-party/

It's only going to get worse and worse until it crumbles from here.

Why should it worse? You can't relax the restrictions until you have reduced the virus, Covid isn't interested in whether you are tired of it or not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 05:21:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 12, 2020, 05:15:57 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 04:59:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 12, 2020, 04:53:17 PM
15 further Coronavirus deaths in Northern Ireland, 11 occurring during past 24 hours. Also 548 new cases from tests on 2,892 individual

Good to see that everyone realises that there is a problem
https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2020/1111/1177574-coronavirus-northern-ireland-belfast-party/

It's only going to get worse and worse until it crumbles from here.

Why should it worse? You can't relax the restrictions until you have reduced the virus, Covid isn't interested in whether you are tired of it or not.

People are sick of it. Sick of the politicians in the North and South. Pretty much everyone socially and in work I talk to now is along the lines of "lets get on with it".

I'm not saying I agree with it, it's not my view. But I can definitely sense over the last 4 weeks especially the good will has gone for whatever reasons.

The bars and hotels in the North "making the decision for the Government" is probably the start of it, if the North doesn't act in the next 24 hours this weekend will be a shambles.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on November 12, 2020, 05:45:55 PM
Mental that there's even a discussion about loosening restrictions with the current numbers in the north.

More than half the hospitals are currently operating above capacity.
ICU bed occupancy has only begun to plateau after going up steadily for two months.
The fall in case numbers has stalled at 500-600 a day.
And death numbers are as high as all but the worst week in April - and that's with everything we've learned since then.

What do the DUP and the fed up with COVID gang see happening if more stuff opens?

It clearly follows that numbers just get worse - both directly through increased contacts, and indirectly through the message it sends to the public that things must be under control.

We're six weeks out from Christmas - a period of time where it's going to be difficult to get anyone to keep their guard up - surely more has to be done to get a better handle on things before then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on November 12, 2020, 05:47:00 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 05:21:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 12, 2020, 05:15:57 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 04:59:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 12, 2020, 04:53:17 PM
15 further Coronavirus deaths in Northern Ireland, 11 occurring during past 24 hours. Also 548 new cases from tests on 2,892 individual

Good to see that everyone realises that there is a problem
https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2020/1111/1177574-coronavirus-northern-ireland-belfast-party/

It's only going to get worse and worse until it crumbles from here.

Why should it worse? You can't relax the restrictions until you have reduced the virus, Covid isn't interested in whether you are tired of it or not.

People are sick of it. Sick of the politicians in the North and South. Pretty much everyone socially and in work I talk to now is along the lines of "lets get on with it".

I'm not saying I agree with it, it's not my view. But I can definitely sense over the last 4 weeks especially the good will has gone for whatever reasons.

The bars and hotels in the North "making the decision for the Government" is probably the start of it, if the North doesn't act in the next 24 hours this weekend will be a shambles.

The government have acted - restrictions lasting for another week - although I think some sectors can open after that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 12, 2020, 05:54:24 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 05:21:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 12, 2020, 05:15:57 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 04:59:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 12, 2020, 04:53:17 PM
15 further Coronavirus deaths in Northern Ireland, 11 occurring during past 24 hours. Also 548 new cases from tests on 2,892 individual

Good to see that everyone realises that there is a problem
https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2020/1111/1177574-coronavirus-northern-ireland-belfast-party/

It's only going to get worse and worse until it crumbles from here.

Why should it worse? You can't relax the restrictions until you have reduced the virus, Covid isn't interested in whether you are tired of it or not.

People are sick of it. Sick of the politicians in the North and South. Pretty much everyone socially and in work I talk to now is along the lines of "lets get on with it".

I'm not saying I agree with it, it's not my view. But I can definitely sense over the last 4 weeks especially the good will has gone for whatever reasons.

The bars and hotels in the North "making the decision for the Government" is probably the start of it, if the North doesn't act in the next 24 hours this weekend will be a shambles.

I have to admit this is mostly what I am hearing, and a lot of people asking for re-opening and saying things like "im not a DUP supporter but...". I think the fact that here in Derry the hospitality people still have not got their payments from our earlier shutdown is playing into this,
Really the 3 years of crippling inactivity on the hill was never going to end good and has made a very bad situation a lot worse

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 12, 2020, 06:42:43 PM
395 cases in the 26 today. R thingy down to 0.6.
549 cases in the 6 (equivalent c.1300).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on November 12, 2020, 07:36:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 04:40:32 PM
You're not the brightest. I was dubious to it being true, I saw it mentioned and equired to such.

You have asked me what I would do countless times and you've either donated your brain some time ago or you can't read. I have addressed that question on numerous occasions clearly and concisely on what I'd do. What part of it did you not understand?

I can't identify the bit I don't understand because I can't find your answer.

I set out the questions 2 weeks ago. You have not answered them. I'm calling you a fraud and a liar
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 12, 2020, 07:57:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2020, 06:42:43 PM
395 cases in the 26 today. R thingy down to 0.6.
549 cases in the 6 (equivalent c.1300).

more like c1400, i.e. about as bad as the worst day in 26.
549 is about bang on the 6 county average for the last 7 days, things are not improving much now. In a couple of weeks the 6 counties will have 5 or 6 times the rate of the 26.

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on November 12, 2020, 05:45:55 PM
We're six weeks out from Christmas - a period of time where it's going to be difficult to get anyone to keep their guard up - surely more has to be done to get a better handle on things before then?

In the south the government have a fairly clear strategy, there will be some slippage over Christmas but they can live with this if they get the rate down in the meantime, and they are on course to do this. Not much evidence of a strategy from Stormont.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2020, 05:49:23 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/peterdonaghy/status/1326932318049742848

Northern Ireland is now higher than Wales again for weekly COVID-19 cases per capita, and nearly 4 times higher than the Republic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: downjim on November 13, 2020, 02:41:46 PM
why are Armaghs number so high today??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 13, 2020, 04:54:50 PM
A mere 600 odd today :o

Hospital occupancy back at over 100% too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 13, 2020, 05:15:03 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 05:21:34 PM
People are sick of it. Sick of the politicians in the North and South. Pretty much everyone socially and in work I talk to now is along the lines of "lets get on with it".

I'm not saying I agree with it, it's not my view. But I can definitely sense over the last 4 weeks especially the good will has gone for whatever reasons.

The bars and hotels in the North "making the decision for the Government" is probably the start of it, if the North doesn't act in the next 24 hours this weekend will be a shambles.

Time for some people to grow the fukk up.

Better to be sick of it than sick with it.

The politicians really have made a balls of it.

Lockdown should never have been for X weeks. It should have been "we're locking down until new cases day measured over a 3 day average are less than X and the total number of people in hospital are less than Y". The public want it to finish quicker? Then follow the fukking rules.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on November 13, 2020, 05:16:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 13, 2020, 04:54:50 PM
A mere 600 odd today :o

Hospital occupancy back at over 100% too.

And they spent all week chatting about how to open up the whole show!

What was the point in the last four weeks if you're going to loosen restrictions before they have had sufficient impact?

Useless f**kers half arseing things as usual. No one with the authority or courage to make difficult decisions and then stand over them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 13, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
An awful lot of people are not wearing masks in shops in Belfast.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 13, 2020, 05:50:59 PM
With the Dinosaur Unionist Party in the Executive logic will continue to be defied.
Looks like we're going to be pretty restricted till about 18th December in the 26.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 13, 2020, 05:53:45 PM
Given Angelo can't be f**ked presenting any evidence to support his yapping about tunnel vision...

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/11/a-look-at-the-psychological-burdens-of-covid-lockdowns/

QuoteAbout 30 percent scored above the cutoff that would mark them as having at least moderate psychological distress. This was particularly pronounced among younger participants—just under half of the 18-24 age group reported that level of distress. When it came to anxiety, just over 15 percent scored in the moderate-to-severe category. As with distress, anxiety dropped as people got older. Just under 40 percent reported poor well-being on the WHO scale (with only 9 percent falling in the excellent category).

In pre-pandemic surveys, only about 8 percent of the population reported distress, while only a quarter had reported poor well-being based on the WHO scale. So, it's clear that the lockdown conditions seemed to be making things more difficult for people. About 20 percent of the population had a previous diagnosis of a mental health condition, but they only accounted for about 10 of the 30 percent who were in distress during lockdown. About half of those who had a previous diagnosis felt like things had gotten worse during the pandemic, while only 15 percent felt that things were better during lockdown.

Six percent of the population had thoughts of suicide during the lockdown, which isn't good. But over 80 percent of those had had similar thoughts prior to the onset of lockdown, so most of this may have involved triggering an underlying tendency.

Despite all of this, a surprising number of those surveyed saw bright spots in the lockdown. About 45 percent of respondents found some positive aspects for themselves personally, while 38 percent felt that there were positive aspects for society. The positive responses ranged from the chance to spend more time with family to an enjoyment of the lower noise and pollution that resulted from fewer people leaving their houses. A number also enjoyed working from home.

So, the data confirms what everyone has suspected: lockdowns come with a psychological cost. But beyond that, the data offers an abundance of potentially helpful information. This includes identifying people who may be most at risk for problems due to an extended lockdown: younger adults and those with a history of mental health diagnoses. These individuals could potentially be targeted by public health officials in ways that can minimize the impacts of the lockdown. The data also suggests that there are things people might find valuable in the lockdown, which could be emphasized in order to make people more conscious of them.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 13, 2020, 05:56:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 13, 2020, 05:50:59 PM
With the Dinosaur Unionist Party in the Executive logic will continue to be defied.
Looks like we're going to be pretty restricted till about 18th December in the 26.

Where did you hear that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 13, 2020, 06:28:34 PM
The Cork goalkeeper's dad on the wireless today saying they hope to reduce restrictions a bit in early December and then nearer Christmas letting families travel to meet, Church services etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 13, 2020, 06:51:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 13, 2020, 05:50:13 PM
An awful lot of people are not wearing masks in shops in Belfast.

should that be a lot of awful people?
they need to require shops not to admit such people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 13, 2020, 06:54:06 PM
To be fair anywhere I have been in Belfast it would be an exception that people aren't wearing masks. Suppose it depends where you are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2020, 07:00:11 PM
Same, though wasn't in work today, but the place is full of alco's
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 13, 2020, 07:11:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2020, 07:00:11 PM
Same, though wasn't in work today, but the place is full of alco's

In my work they have a diversity of drugs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on November 13, 2020, 11:52:57 PM
Any news on Sweden?

Could have sworn I read they had nearly 6,000 cases and 42 deaths in their latest daily figures

Probably just my imagination though, because the self appointed internet experts™ tell us Sweden got it right, and I can't believe the self appointed internet experts™ would be wrong
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 13, 2020, 11:54:50 PM
You sound like you are happy to report those cases and deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 12:03:00 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 13, 2020, 11:54:50 PM
You sound like you are happy to report those cases and deaths.
Classic moronic reflex reaction from somebody who has bought into the world of far right propaganda

When the utter nonsense they've cheerled for months predictably turns out to be utter nonsense, the reaction then is to claim that people who called the nonsense for what it is "wanted people to die"

There's a genuine mental illness in this sort of reaction

People called out the nonsense of herd immunity and the nonsense of Sweden's approach for what they were because they didn't want a load of people to die

A genuine cult-like stupidity has spread like a cancer through the world and the quoted post here is a very good example

Hannah Arendt would have had a field day with it


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 14, 2020, 12:39:59 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 13, 2020, 11:54:50 PM
You sound like you are happy to report those cases and deaths.
of course he is
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 14, 2020, 01:06:49 AM
Not good in the US of A.
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/11/13/multimedia/13coronavirus-briefing-leadimage/13coronavirus-briefing-leadimage-superJumbo.png?quality=90&auto=webp)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on November 14, 2020, 05:37:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 13, 2020, 11:52:57 PM
Any news on Sweden?

Could have sworn I read they had nearly 6,000 cases and 42 deaths in their latest daily figures

Probably just my imagination though, because the self appointed internet experts™ tell us Sweden got it right, and I can't believe the self appointed internet experts™ would be wrong

Sweden are averaging 4,000 cases a day this week and hospital numbers are rising. The Swedish PM announced he had COVID-19 and was self isolating, but it seems to have been a false positives as he said he doesn't have it now

They have implemented local lockdowns in parts of the country and pubs have to close at 10pm. Still won't make wearing masks mandatory anywhere except in hospitals

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on November 15, 2020, 05:43:37 PM
Weekly update for the ROI, decent progress seen again this week.

Cases 2,613 (887 less than last week)
Reported deaths 34 ( one more than last week)

In Hospital  249 (32 less than last week)
In ICU 31 ( 9 less)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 15, 2020, 07:28:16 PM
There were a few higher days during the week though, illicit parties and the like.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on November 15, 2020, 07:30:32 PM
Will there be another lockdown in early January?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 15, 2020, 09:41:46 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 15, 2020, 07:30:32 PM
Will there be another lockdown in early January?

That is dependent on how people conduct themselves in the meantime.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on November 15, 2020, 09:44:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2020, 09:41:46 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 15, 2020, 07:30:32 PM
Will there be another lockdown in early January?

That is dependent on how people conduct themselves in the meantime.

With numbers still not that great yet, I take it that's a yes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ronnie on November 15, 2020, 09:54:35 PM
Probably.  More lockdowns or an acceptable (but avoidable) death toll.  Or national mindset change.  I'm not adding much that hasn't already been said.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on November 15, 2020, 10:03:48 PM
Quote from: Ronnie on November 15, 2020, 09:54:35 PM
Probably.  More lockdowns or an acceptable (but avoidable) death toll.  Or national mindset change.  I'm not adding much that hasn't already been said.

True, just seems to be a policy of containment.

On the other side of Christmas, it'll soon be the full 12 months!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on November 15, 2020, 10:12:59 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 15, 2020, 07:30:32 PM
Will there be another lockdown in early January?

Nothing happens in January so probably wouldn't notice any difference tbh.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 15, 2020, 10:33:22 PM
In the North they don't seem planning to reduce the rate much. it has only come down marginally in the last week. So they won't be able to tolerate much of an increase either. In the 26 counties they are planning to reduce it, so they can tolerate some increase. People say that it doesn't make much difference why not open pubs etc, but if R is 1.2 then the Covid does not increase 10 times for 13 weeks, but if R is 1.3 then it increases 10 times in 6.5 weeks. So if they ran a tight ship in the 26 counties and kept R down then they might stretch it out to the point where the vaccine was beginning to contribute and we might get a fair wind from that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 16, 2020, 05:58:51 AM
https://twitter.com/skydavidblevins/status/1328079938654773249?s=20

A slap in the face to those that have to close here that are deemed high risk industries. Can you imagine if this was linked to a bar for example?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on November 16, 2020, 10:51:52 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 12, 2020, 05:47:00 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 05:21:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 12, 2020, 05:15:57 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 12, 2020, 04:59:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 12, 2020, 04:53:17 PM
15 further Coronavirus deaths in Northern Ireland, 11 occurring during past 24 hours. Also 548 new cases from tests on 2,892 individual

Good to see that everyone realises that there is a problem
https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2020/1111/1177574-coronavirus-northern-ireland-belfast-party/

It's only going to get worse and worse until it crumbles from here.

Why should it worse? You can't relax the restrictions until you have reduced the virus, Covid isn't interested in whether you are tired of it or not.

People are sick of it. Sick of the politicians in the North and South. Pretty much everyone socially and in work I talk to now is along the lines of "lets get on with it".

I'm not saying I agree with it, it's not my view. But I can definitely sense over the last 4 weeks especially the good will has gone for whatever reasons.

The bars and hotels in the North "making the decision for the Government" is probably the start of it, if the North doesn't act in the next 24 hours this weekend will be a shambles.

The government have acted - restrictions lasting for another week - although I think some sectors can open after that

The government have acted, but are not being led by the science. And I notice that it's very rarely mentioned now that they are being led by the science.
The science said they needed to lock down for another 2 weeks at least. All parties except the DUP agreed and so the DUP used a cross community mechanism for a purpose it was never intended to be used for to veto the science and the overwhelming cross community vote to lock down for 2 weeks.
Robin Swan has even said that he is a unionist making the recommendations but the DUP used a cross community tool too block it. How can it be a cross community issue if both sides agree?
The DUP have their own agenda and seem to be only interested in either the money OR any route of action that is opposite to what SF want to follow.
It's reckless and scandalous and will undoubtedly cost more lives.
I wonder can a legal challenge be made against the DUP for using the cross community veto in a manner that it was not intended for.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 16, 2020, 11:55:32 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on November 16, 2020, 10:51:52 AM
The government have acted, but are not being led by the science. And I notice that it's very rarely mentioned now that they are being led by the science.
The science said they needed to lock down for another 2 weeks at least. All parties except the DUP agreed and so the DUP used a cross community mechanism for a purpose it was never intended to be used for to veto the science and the overwhelming cross community vote to lock down for 2 weeks.
Robin Swan has even said that he is a unionist making the recommendations but the DUP used a cross community tool too block it. How can it be a cross community issue if both sides agree?
The DUP have their own agenda and seem to be only interested in either the money OR any route of action that is opposite to what SF want to follow.
It's reckless and scandalous and will undoubtedly cost more lives.
I wonder can a legal challenge be made against the DUP for using the cross community veto in a manner that it was not intended for.

Somebody point out on Slugger that this is wasn't a petition of concern, but something brought in by SF and the DUP in the St Andrews agreement requiring ministerial votes on a cross community basis. It resulted from the stitch up by SF and the DUP to make sure that nothing could be done without them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on November 16, 2020, 12:21:39 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on November 16, 2020, 10:51:52 AM
Robin Swan has even said that he is a unionist making the recommendations but the DUP used a cross community tool too block it. How can it be a cross community issue if both sides agree?
I must say Swann comes across as a decent man.  Has he made mistakes?  Of course he has but he appears to be very genuine in everything he does.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on November 16, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
On a positive note Moderna have released the interim results on their vaccine and it has shown nearly 95% efficacy.  Hopefully the Oxford/AZ vaccine will follow suit soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 16, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
Quote from: mackers on November 16, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
On a positive note Moderna have released the interim results on their vaccine and it has shown nearly 95% efficacy.  Hopefully the Oxford/AZ vaccine will follow suit soon.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are related approaches, both will have around the same efficacy, but both have distribution problems because of the =70C requirement. The Oxford/AZ is a bit different, but would be easier to distribute, the Russian vaccine which is supposed to be also very effective is related to the Oxford approach.

It will be a bit of a challenge getting these things produced and distributed, but it looks like they will provide a real change.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on November 16, 2020, 12:36:42 PM
Quote from: mackers on November 16, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
On a positive note Moderna have released the interim results on their vaccine and it has shown nearly 95% efficacy.  Hopefully the Oxford/AZ vaccine will follow suit soon.

What's the chances??

According to a prominent Chemical Engineer, who has a phD and some friends, no vaccine had EVER got close to 90% efficiacy in the clinical trials phase of development.

Now we have 2 in a week!

Science... eh?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on November 16, 2020, 12:37:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
Quote from: mackers on November 16, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
On a positive note Moderna have released the interim results on their vaccine and it has shown nearly 95% efficacy.  Hopefully the Oxford/AZ vaccine will follow suit soon.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are related approaches, both will have around the same efficacy, but both have distribution problems because of the =70C requirement. The Oxford/AZ is a bit different, but would be easier to distribute, the Russian vaccine which is supposed to be also very effective is related to the Oxford approach.

It will be a bit of a challenge getting these things produced and distributed, but it looks like they will provide a real change.

Form an orderly queue for the Russian vaccine!  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 16, 2020, 12:37:59 PM
How many GAAboarders have polio?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bigarsedkeeper on November 16, 2020, 12:45:56 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on November 16, 2020, 12:37:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
Quote from: mackers on November 16, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
On a positive note Moderna have released the interim results on their vaccine and it has shown nearly 95% efficacy.  Hopefully the Oxford/AZ vaccine will follow suit soon.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are related approaches, both will have around the same efficacy, but both have distribution problems because of the =70C requirement. The Oxford/AZ is a bit different, but would be easier to distribute, the Russian vaccine which is supposed to be also very effective is related to the Oxford approach.

It will be a bit of a challenge getting these things produced and distributed, but it looks like they will provide a real change.

Form an orderly queue for the Russian vaccine!  ;D

Everyone who gets it looks like Dolph Lundgren after a month
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on November 16, 2020, 12:49:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
Quote from: mackers on November 16, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
On a positive note Moderna have released the interim results on their vaccine and it has shown nearly 95% efficacy.  Hopefully the Oxford/AZ vaccine will follow suit soon.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are related approaches, both will have around the same efficacy, but both have distribution problems because of the =70C requirement. The Oxford/AZ is a bit different, but would be easier to distribute, the Russian vaccine which is supposed to be also very effective is related to the Oxford approach.

It will be a bit of a challenge getting these things produced and distributed, but it looks like they will provide a real change.

I don't think the moderna vaccine has the same cold storage requirements as the Pfizer vaccine, it's just 2-8C which is pretty standard
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 16, 2020, 12:51:45 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on November 16, 2020, 12:37:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
Quote from: mackers on November 16, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
On a positive note Moderna have released the interim results on their vaccine and it has shown nearly 95% efficacy.  Hopefully the Oxford/AZ vaccine will follow suit soon.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are related approaches, both will have around the same efficacy, but both have distribution problems because of the =70C requirement. The Oxford/AZ is a bit different, but would be easier to distribute, the Russian vaccine which is supposed to be also very effective is related to the Oxford approach.

Quote from: macdanger2 on November 16, 2020, 12:49:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
Quote from: mackers on November 16, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
On a positive note Moderna have released the interim results on their vaccine and it has shown nearly 95% efficacy.  Hopefully the Oxford/AZ vaccine will follow suit soon.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are related approaches, both will have around the same efficacy, but both have distribution problems because of the =70C requirement. The Oxford/AZ is a bit different, but would be easier to distribute, the Russian vaccine which is supposed to be also very effective is related to the Oxford approach.

It will be a bit of a challenge getting these things produced and distributed, but it looks like they will provide a real change.

I don't think the moderna vaccine has the same cold storage requirements as the Pfizer vaccine, it's just 2-8C which is pretty standard

My post above was based on out of date information. Although it seems that Moderna does require -20C, such storage is more readily available.

It will be a bit of a challenge getting these things produced and distributed, but it looks like they will provide a real change.

Form an orderly queue for the Russian vaccine!  ;D

I expect that we will get one of the other ones, although apparently the UK hasn't tried to order the Moderna one, so people in the occupied 6 will be banjaxed. However, the Russian vaccine may well work, it is not dissimilar to the Oxford approach, and it will be used in Russa and probably many parts of the third world, so it will help kill off the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on November 16, 2020, 01:01:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2020, 12:51:45 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on November 16, 2020, 12:37:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
Quote from: mackers on November 16, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
On a positive note Moderna have released the interim results on their vaccine and it has shown nearly 95% efficacy.  Hopefully the Oxford/AZ vaccine will follow suit soon.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are related approaches, both will have around the same efficacy, but both have distribution problems because of the =70C requirement. The Oxford/AZ is a bit different, but would be easier to distribute, the Russian vaccine which is supposed to be also very effective is related to the Oxford approach.

Quote from: macdanger2 on November 16, 2020, 12:49:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
Quote from: mackers on November 16, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
On a positive note Moderna have released the interim results on their vaccine and it has shown nearly 95% efficacy.  Hopefully the Oxford/AZ vaccine will follow suit soon.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are related approaches, both will have around the same efficacy, but both have distribution problems because of the =70C requirement. The Oxford/AZ is a bit different, but would be easier to distribute, the Russian vaccine which is supposed to be also very effective is related to the Oxford approach.

It will be a bit of a challenge getting these things produced and distributed, but it looks like they will provide a real change.

I don't think the moderna vaccine has the same cold storage requirements as the Pfizer vaccine, it's just 2-8C which is pretty standard

My post above was based on out of date information. Although it seems that Moderna does require -20C, such storage is more readily available.

It will be a bit of a challenge getting these things produced and distributed, but it looks like they will provide a real change.

Form an orderly queue for the Russian vaccine!  ;D

I expect that we will get one of the other ones, although apparently the UK hasn't tried to order the Moderna one, so people in the occupied 6 will be banjaxed. However, the Russian vaccine may well work, it is not dissimilar to the Oxford approach, and it will be used in Russa and probably many parts of the third world, so it will help kill off the virus.

Preferably the Oxford approach to the Salisbury approach!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on November 16, 2020, 01:12:09 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 16, 2020, 12:49:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
Quote from: mackers on November 16, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
On a positive note Moderna have released the interim results on their vaccine and it has shown nearly 95% efficacy.  Hopefully the Oxford/AZ vaccine will follow suit soon.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are related approaches, both will have around the same efficacy, but both have distribution problems because of the =70C requirement. The Oxford/AZ is a bit different, but would be easier to distribute, the Russian vaccine which is supposed to be also very effective is related to the Oxford approach.

It will be a bit of a challenge getting these things produced and distributed, but it looks like they will provide a real change.

I don't think the moderna vaccine has the same cold storage requirements as the Pfizer vaccine, it's just 2-8C which is pretty standard

-20 degrees I read somewhere.

It seems a lot of these vaccines are using the same approach so we hopefully see a raft of other vaccines passing all the required due diligence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 16, 2020, 01:39:47 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on November 16, 2020, 12:45:56 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on November 16, 2020, 12:37:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
Quote from: mackers on November 16, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
On a positive note Moderna have released the interim results on their vaccine and it has shown nearly 95% efficacy.  Hopefully the Oxford/AZ vaccine will follow suit soon.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are related approaches, both will have around the same efficacy, but both have distribution problems because of the =70C requirement. The Oxford/AZ is a bit different, but would be easier to distribute, the Russian vaccine which is supposed to be also very effective is related to the Oxford approach.

It will be a bit of a challenge getting these things produced and distributed, but it looks like they will provide a real change.

Form an orderly queue for the Russian vaccine!  ;D

Everyone who gets it looks like Dolph Lundgren after a month

I'll have it, save me bothering with pre season later in month  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 16, 2020, 02:06:21 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 16, 2020, 01:12:09 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 16, 2020, 12:49:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2020, 12:32:01 PM
Quote from: mackers on November 16, 2020, 12:23:39 PM
On a positive note Moderna have released the interim results on their vaccine and it has shown nearly 95% efficacy.  Hopefully the Oxford/AZ vaccine will follow suit soon.

The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are related approaches, both will have around the same efficacy, but both have distribution problems because of the =70C requirement. The Oxford/AZ is a bit different, but would be easier to distribute, the Russian vaccine which is supposed to be also very effective is related to the Oxford approach.

It will be a bit of a challenge getting these things produced and distributed, but it looks like they will provide a real change.

I don't think the moderna vaccine has the same cold storage requirements as the Pfizer vaccine, it's just 2-8C which is pretty standard

-20 degrees I read somewhere.

It seems a lot of these vaccines are using the same approach so we hopefully see a raft of other vaccines passing all the required due diligence.
Both. It's primary storage condition is -20 which is a domestic freezer but can also sit in the fridge for up to 30 days. This makes the management much easier for GPs. It'll take all these companies to get something delivered to everyone who needs/wants it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on November 16, 2020, 02:23:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2020, 11:55:32 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on November 16, 2020, 10:51:52 AM
The government have acted, but are not being led by the science. And I notice that it's very rarely mentioned now that they are being led by the science.
The science said they needed to lock down for another 2 weeks at least. All parties except the DUP agreed and so the DUP used a cross community mechanism for a purpose it was never intended to be used for to veto the science and the overwhelming cross community vote to lock down for 2 weeks.
Robin Swan has even said that he is a unionist making the recommendations but the DUP used a cross community tool too block it. How can it be a cross community issue if both sides agree?
The DUP have their own agenda and seem to be only interested in either the money OR any route of action that is opposite to what SF want to follow.
It's reckless and scandalous and will undoubtedly cost more lives.
I wonder can a legal challenge be made against the DUP for using the cross community veto in a manner that it was not intended for.

Somebody point out on Slugger that this is wasn't a petition of concern, but something brought in by SF and the DUP in the St Andrews agreement requiring ministerial votes on a cross community basis. It resulted from the stitch up by SF and the DUP to make sure that nothing could be done without them.

Yeah I know it's not the petition of concern, but I cant for the life of me remember what it's called. The general idea is that if any side of the community feels that a decision is detrimental to their side of the community they can ask for a vote to be taken by means of getting three (I think) nominations. The DUP with the majority are able to trigger this and then also win the vote as they have a majority, essentially giving them a veto.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on November 16, 2020, 02:25:46 PM
Quote from: mackers on November 16, 2020, 12:21:39 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on November 16, 2020, 10:51:52 AM
Robin Swan has even said that he is a unionist making the recommendations but the DUP used a cross community tool too block it. How can it be a cross community issue if both sides agree?
I must say Swann comes across as a decent man.  Has he made mistakes?  Of course he has but he appears to be very genuine in everything he does.

Yeah I have to say I wasn't his biggest fan at the start of this whole thing, but he seems to genuinely be trying to do the right thing for the right reasons. He's not politicising anything. It feels he's banging his head off a wall.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on November 16, 2020, 02:27:53 PM
Looks like Sweden have changed their approach and moved towards lockdown.....

https://t.co/u7iTUJW4Ns?amp=1 (https://t.co/u7iTUJW4Ns?amp=1)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 16, 2020, 03:44:37 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 16, 2020, 01:12:09 PM
It seems a lot of these vaccines are using the same approach so we hopefully see a raft of other vaccines passing all the required due diligence.

Plenty of stuff in this article (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html), if you have time on your hands.

Quote from: JohnDenver on November 16, 2020, 02:27:53 PM
Looks like Sweden have changed their approach and moved towards lockdown.....

https://t.co/u7iTUJW4Ns?amp=1 (https://t.co/u7iTUJW4Ns?amp=1)

Virus control for slow learners. 

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 18, 2020, 12:12:36 PM
Pfizer release more data on their vaccine which shows a 95% efficacy, about the same as Moderna, but perhaps better for people in older age groups.
That said nobody with the Moderna virus got a bad case of Covid where one person with Pfizer did. No doubt they'll be looking carefully at that person.

In global phase 3 trials involving more than 43,000 people, 170 were observed to have contracted coronavirus, out of which 162 had been given a placebo, the companies said. Just eight of those who had received two shots of the BioNTech-Pfizer vaccine developed the disease and only one became seriously ill, while nine of the placebo group developed severe Covid-19.

https://www.ft.com/content/cd7973f0-3f06-4a54-a79e-1f705a80fc2d
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 18, 2020, 06:12:57 PM
379 in 26.
519 in 6 (equivalent c 1330).
Daily numbers not reducing in the 26.
As for the 6....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 18, 2020, 06:15:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 18, 2020, 06:12:57 PM
379 in 26.
519 in 6 (equivalent c 1330).
Daily numbers not reducing in the 26.
As for the 6....

There was a while there when the 7 figures in the 6 counties were only about 4% down on the previous 7 days, now it is more like 9% difference. Armagh, Banbridge and Craigavon and Fermanagh  and Omagh have gone up. The DUP want to open up from this weekend, 500 cases/day is not great place to start off from.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on November 18, 2020, 06:23:43 PM
Re community transmission, and numbers that refuse to fall.

Why is no politician or consultant yet willing to admit that keeping schools open while shutting down everything else, is largely an exercise in futility? 

I mean just how long should we cling to the notion that 16 year old John won't spread Covid because he's in school, but his 18 year old brother will spread it if he gets a haircut.

——

I'm not demanding that schools are shut by the way. It just seems that current policy is like turning the heating on and lighting the fire, while opening all the windows and doors.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on November 18, 2020, 06:39:15 PM
Schools seem to be a major problem
Obviously off course
Just admit it
So let me get this straight
Robbie Swann is bringing more recommendations to the table tomorrow about tightening further restrictions just as they are opening close contact places like barbers salons cafes  etc
You actually couldn't make this up
What other places can he suggest we tighten up? Only thing I can think of is to close all retail?? That won't happen will it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on November 18, 2020, 06:40:01 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 18, 2020, 06:23:43 PM
Re community transmission, and numbers that refuse to fall.

Why is no politician or consultant yet willing to admit that keeping schools open while shutting down everything else, is largely an exercise in futility? 

I mean just how long should we cling to the notion that 16 year old John won't spread Covid because he's in school, but his 18 year old brother will spread it if he gets a haircut.

——

I'm not demanding that schools are shut by the way. It just seems that current policy is like turning the heating on and lighting the fire, while opening all the windows and doors.

I think that's the point. It's a pragmatic decision given that we are not trying to eradicate , there are risks/benefit analysis decisions made on all restrictions . Difficult decisions all, as this isn't an exact science
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on November 18, 2020, 06:49:19 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on November 18, 2020, 06:40:01 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 18, 2020, 06:23:43 PM
Re community transmission, and numbers that refuse to fall.

Why is no politician or consultant yet willing to admit that keeping schools open while shutting down everything else, is largely an exercise in futility? 

I mean just how long should we cling to the notion that 16 year old John won't spread Covid because he's in school, but his 18 year old brother will spread it if he gets a haircut.

——

I'm not demanding that schools are shut by the way. It just seems that current policy is like turning the heating on and lighting the fire, while opening all the windows and doors.

I think that's the point. It's a pragmatic decision given that we are not trying to eradicate , there are risks/benefit analysis decisions made on all restrictions . Difficult decisions all, as this isn't an exact science

The pragmatism is lost on me.

The quickest way to infect a rural community is through a school. The most effective way to infect pensioners is through the grandchildren they pick up and mind for 2-5 hours a day. The slowest way to detect this infection is through largely asymptomatic children.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 18, 2020, 07:46:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 18, 2020, 06:12:57 PM
379 in 26.
519 in 6 (equivalent c 1330).
Daily numbers not reducing in the 26.
As for the 6....

You seem to take a bit of pleasure in the North struggling?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 18, 2020, 07:51:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 18, 2020, 06:23:43 PM
Re community transmission, and numbers that refuse to fall.

Why is no politician or consultant yet willing to admit that keeping schools open while shutting down everything else, is largely an exercise in futility? 

I mean just how long should we cling to the notion that 16 year old John won't spread Covid because he's in school, but his 18 year old brother will spread it if he gets a haircut.

Schools are a risk factor, to be sure. However, people sit at school with the same group each day, the problem with retail, hairdressers, restaurants etc is the continual different mix of people which makes any sort of useful tracking and tracing impossible. Schools, especially primary ones, give a lot of value for a moderate risk.

——

QuoteI'm not demanding that schools are shut by the way. It just seems that current policy is like turning the heating on and lighting the fire, while opening all the windows and doors.

I think schools vary greatly in their organisation level to deal with this.
Quote from: thewobbler on November 18, 2020, 06:49:19 PM

QuoteThe most effective way to infect pensioners is through the grandchildren they pick up and mind for 2-5 hours a day. The slowest way to detect this infection is through largely asymptomatic children.

This is a separate risk factor, people should be careful about the pensioners in their family.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 18, 2020, 08:22:40 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 18, 2020, 07:46:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 18, 2020, 06:12:57 PM
379 in 26.
519 in 6 (equivalent c 1330).
Daily numbers not reducing in the 26.
As for the 6....

You seem to take a bit of pleasure in the North struggling?
No, just trying to point out to ye how comparatively more widespread ye have it.
We'd be closed down till Christmas if we had that amount of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 18, 2020, 09:52:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 18, 2020, 08:22:40 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 18, 2020, 07:46:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 18, 2020, 06:12:57 PM
379 in 26.
519 in 6 (equivalent c 1330).
Daily numbers not reducing in the 26.
As for the 6....

You seem to take a bit of pleasure in the North struggling?
No, just trying to point out to ye how comparatively more widespread ye have it.
We'd be closed down till Christmas if we had that amount of it.

Life is cheaper in the 6 counties.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on November 19, 2020, 12:25:14 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2020, 03:44:37 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 16, 2020, 01:12:09 PM
It seems a lot of these vaccines are using the same approach so we hopefully see a raft of other vaccines passing all the required due diligence.

Plenty of stuff in this article (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html), if you have time on your hands.

Quote from: JohnDenver on November 16, 2020, 02:27:53 PM
Looks like Sweden have changed their approach and moved towards lockdown.....

https://t.co/u7iTUJW4Ns?amp=1 (https://t.co/u7iTUJW4Ns?amp=1)

Virus control for slow learners.
I doubt you read the article, if you did read it  there is a complete lack of comprehension. There is hardly any change to the social advice which has been followed voluntarily without the need for widespread police intervention.  There is no lockdown in place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 19, 2020, 01:46:18 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 19, 2020, 12:25:14 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2020, 03:44:37 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 16, 2020, 01:12:09 PM
It seems a lot of these vaccines are using the same approach so we hopefully see a raft of other vaccines passing all the required due diligence.

Plenty of stuff in this article (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html), if you have time on your hands.

Quote from: JohnDenver on November 16, 2020, 02:27:53 PM
Looks like Sweden have changed their approach and moved towards lockdown.....

https://t.co/u7iTUJW4Ns?amp=1 (https://t.co/u7iTUJW4Ns?amp=1)

Virus control for slow learners.
I doubt you read the article, if you did read it  there is a complete lack of comprehension. There is hardly any change to the social advice which has been followed voluntarily without the need for widespread police intervention.  There is no lockdown in place.

That's just a lockdown for responsible people, while yobs do what they like. A bit like here then.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on November 19, 2020, 08:24:20 AM
So Robbie wants a further 2 weeks restrictions even though numbers continue to go up? Would he not have a plan B up his sleeve here seeing as his plan A is not working?
Schools should close from the 11th of December and reopen on the 11th of January
Teachers to work through as normal and plan for the rest of the year.
Robbie needs to get his thinking cap on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on November 19, 2020, 08:58:13 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on November 19, 2020, 08:24:20 AM
So Robbie wants a further 2 weeks restrictions even though numbers continue to go up? Would he not have a plan B up his sleeve here seeing as his plan A is not working?
Schools should close from the 11th of December and reopen on the 11th of January
Teachers to work through as normal and plan for the rest of the year.
Robbie needs to get his thinking cap on

And what about vulnerable children not being monitored and in a safe school environment for 4 weeks? Is there evidence that a 4 week school lockdown is likely to work? And what other restrictions do we maintain or remove at the same time?
Politicians here haven't covered themselves in glory over the years, but their job isn't easy at present and I wonder is the constant Stephen Nolan-type scrutiny and negativity, part of the reason why they are constantly reactive rather than pro-active? We are a year into this pandemic and it could go on, I'd like to see a bit more focus on a longer term strategy to protect the nhs from surges , protect the vulnerable , and have pragmatic measures which balance protecting overall health and economy against the direct effects of Covid. .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 19, 2020, 09:38:34 AM
I may be wrong but i haven't heard anywhere near the hullabaloo around covid in schools post halloween as there was previously returning from the summer break?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2020, 09:41:27 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 19, 2020, 09:38:34 AM
I may be wrong but i haven't heard anywhere near the hullabaloo around covid in schools post halloween as there was previously returning from the summer break?

My daughters class just returned yesterday after a two week break due to an outbreak, other classes throughout the year have been in similar circumstances.

One outbreak stops 30 kids going to school for two weeks!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 19, 2020, 09:44:27 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 19, 2020, 09:38:34 AM
I may be wrong but i haven't heard anywhere near the hullabaloo around covid in schools post halloween as there was previously returning from the summer break?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-54954964
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 19, 2020, 09:47:40 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 19, 2020, 09:38:34 AM
I may be wrong but i haven't heard anywhere near the hullabaloo around covid in schools post halloween as there was previously returning from the summer break?

Craigavon High had an outbreak of 50 positive tests and it was supressed in the media. I posted it a few days ago asking the question could you imagine if this was in a bar, it would have been sensationalised to the hilt.

Says it all really.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 19, 2020, 10:01:46 AM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on November 19, 2020, 09:44:27 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 19, 2020, 09:38:34 AM
I may be wrong but i haven't heard anywhere near the hullabaloo around covid in schools post halloween as there was previously returning from the summer break?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-54954964

I know about that one but most secondary schools around me (and theres quite a few) had classes in & out on a loop post summer break. I haven't heared anything of that scale as yet post the halloween break?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2020, 10:51:39 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 19, 2020, 10:01:46 AM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on November 19, 2020, 09:44:27 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 19, 2020, 09:38:34 AM
I may be wrong but i haven't heard anywhere near the hullabaloo around covid in schools post halloween as there was previously returning from the summer break?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-54954964

I know about that one but most secondary schools around me (and theres quite a few) had classes in & out on a loop post summer break. I haven't heared anything of that scale as yet post the halloween break?

Whereas I never heard about the school that shut but heard a lot about post match celebrations causing an outbreak and that it's 'taigs' that are super spreaders  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 19, 2020, 11:17:18 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 19, 2020, 09:47:40 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 19, 2020, 09:38:34 AM
I may be wrong but i haven't heard anywhere near the hullabaloo around covid in schools post halloween as there was previously returning from the summer break?

Craigavon High had an outbreak of 50 positive tests and it was supressed in the media. I posted it a few days ago asking the question could you imagine if this was in a bar, it would have been sensationalised to the hilt.

Says it all really.

Surely you can see that schools are more important than pubs?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 19, 2020, 11:28:56 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 19, 2020, 11:17:18 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 19, 2020, 09:47:40 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 19, 2020, 09:38:34 AM
I may be wrong but i haven't heard anywhere near the hullabaloo around covid in schools post halloween as there was previously returning from the summer break?

Craigavon High had an outbreak of 50 positive tests and it was supressed in the media. I posted it a few days ago asking the question could you imagine if this was in a bar, it would have been sensationalised to the hilt.

Says it all really.

Surely you can see that schools are more important than pubs?

I didn't say that. I'm just saying we know what the reaction to one would have been, whereas the other is brushed under the carpet and accepted.

Schools clearly are more important than pubs. But we are ruining these people, probably irreversibly at this stage while letting Covid play away in schools. It's becoming a nonsense as we can clearly see, Covid doesn't really tend to care if you take a pint in the local or run around a school. It's still going to infect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 19, 2020, 11:31:36 AM
A second Portadown school has closed due to an outbreak of the coronavirus.

https://armaghi.com/news/portadown-news/second-portadown-school-closes-due-to-covid-outbreak/121709?fbclid=IwAR1FxD0KdrCndgd06CXD5dPJ2LjYdXWoZVYN6qp1woISxBtMF-75Own5X9M
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on November 19, 2020, 11:38:29 AM
A few points on schools.
My wife is a teacher in a primary school and they have a number of parents sending their kids to school even though they themselves have tested positive. The school finds out through other channels, such as other parents informing them.

They have had cases of parents sending kids to school while awaiting results of tests. One specific case, a parent dropped child off at the door and walked away, only to walk back 5 mins later to say her results had just come back and she's positive and so needs to take her kid home. Neither should have been out of the house when waiting results.

Several teachers and teaching assistants have had to go off with covid and/or isolating.

In all of these cases, no other children or staff were asked to isolate by the school (I dont actually know what should happen though).

Separately, I have two older kids in secondary school. Both have had close friends diagnose positive and in both cases neither of their classes were asked to isolate at home (again I dont know the regulations here).

My wife had an email last night from a teachers union asking teachers to inform the union if their principles had been asking them not to take tests or report isolated incidents of children testing positive. Apparently some head teachers are doing this.

So, what does all this mean?
Personally, I think we don't have a clear view on the problem from schools for a number of reasons. People are not taking responsibility and isolating themselves or family when they should be. They are not always informing the schools of testing or positive tests. And the schools, for what ever reason, are potentially not reporting all incidents or are not isolating class groups when they should be (based in anecdotal info).

Common sense would say that when large groups gather the risk of increasing the spread is higher. Just because this hasn't manifested itself in school closures doesn't necessarily mean schools shouldn't have been closed.

One thing that is clear, the health service is on its knees. The DUP in particular I feel have contributed to this greatly.
The wider public are not following the rules as stringently as they should be and there is a sizeable group of people who are not following any rules but their own.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 19, 2020, 11:50:49 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on November 19, 2020, 11:38:29 AM
A few points on schools.
My wife is a teacher in a primary school and they have a number of parents sending their kids to school even though they themselves have tested positive. The school finds out through other channels, such as other parents informing them.

They have had cases of parents sending kids to school while awaiting results of tests. One specific case, a parent dropped child off at the door and walked away, only to walk back 5 mins later to say her results had just come back and she's positive and so needs to take her kid home. Neither should have been out of the house when waiting results.

Several teachers and teaching assistants have had to go off with covid and/or isolating.

In all of these cases, no other children or staff were asked to isolate by the school (I dont actually know what should happen though).

Separately, I have two older kids in secondary school. Both have had close friends diagnose positive and in both cases neither of their classes were asked to isolate at home (again I dont know the regulations here).

My wife had an email last night from a teachers union asking teachers to inform the union if their principles had been asking them not to take tests or report isolated incidents of children testing positive. Apparently some head teachers are doing this.

So, what does all this mean?
Personally, I think we don't have a clear view on the problem from schools for a number of reasons. People are not taking responsibility and isolating themselves or family when they should be. They are not always informing the schools of testing or positive tests. And the schools, for what ever reason, are potentially not reporting all incidents or are not isolating class groups when they should be (based in anecdotal info).

Common sense would say that when large groups gather the risk of increasing the spread is higher. Just because this hasn't manifested itself in school closures doesn't necessarily mean schools shouldn't have been closed.

One thing that is clear, the health service is on its knees. The DUP in particular I feel have contributed to this greatly.
The wider public are not following the rules as stringently as they should be and there is a sizeable group of people who are not following any rules but their own.

This.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 19, 2020, 12:00:14 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 19, 2020, 11:50:49 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on November 19, 2020, 11:38:29 AM
A few points on schools.
My wife is a teacher in a primary school and they have a number of parents sending their kids to school even though they themselves have tested positive. The school finds out through other channels, such as other parents informing them.

They have had cases of parents sending kids to school while awaiting results of tests. One specific case, a parent dropped child off at the door and walked away, only to walk back 5 mins later to say her results had just come back and she's positive and so needs to take her kid home. Neither should have been out of the house when waiting results.

Several teachers and teaching assistants have had to go off with covid and/or isolating.

In all of these cases, no other children or staff were asked to isolate by the school (I dont actually know what should happen though).

Separately, I have two older kids in secondary school. Both have had close friends diagnose positive and in both cases neither of their classes were asked to isolate at home (again I dont know the regulations here).

My wife had an email last night from a teachers union asking teachers to inform the union if their principles had been asking them not to take tests or report isolated incidents of children testing positive. Apparently some head teachers are doing this.

So, what does all this mean?
Personally, I think we don't have a clear view on the problem from schools for a number of reasons. People are not taking responsibility and isolating themselves or family when they should be. They are not always informing the schools of testing or positive tests. And the schools, for what ever reason, are potentially not reporting all incidents or are not isolating class groups when they should be (based in anecdotal info).

Common sense would say that when large groups gather the risk of increasing the spread is higher. Just because this hasn't manifested itself in school closures doesn't necessarily mean schools shouldn't have been closed.

One thing that is clear, the health service is on its knees. The DUP in particular I feel have contributed to this greatly.
The wider public are not following the rules as stringently as they should be and there is a sizeable group of people who are not following any rules but their own.

This.

100% correct. People's ignorance/stupidity is the main reason for the high numbers in the north and elsewhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on November 19, 2020, 12:26:07 PM

There are some people who lack any form of common sense. But they're the exception from what I can see, not the rule.

Everyone  I know is being cautious. There's no birthday parties behind closed doors. There's almost no unnecessary travel. If there's sibins in operation around here, they're ultra quiet. Obviously there's nobody meeting in restaurants or pubs.

If there's a "weakness" it's that some families have bubbles with other families, usually relations. Some have bubbles including grandparents. But they're small bubbles. And these are pretty much necessary bubbles if people are going to go to work.

The most likely cause of spread through these bubbles is from their kids, picking it up at school, and not showing any symptoms. Then spending hours at a time in an unsanitised home environment without masks or all the procedures we follow in workplaces, and shopping.

This is the obvious, underlying flaw in the current policies. Anyone in denial of it is a Covid fundamentalist. That's the underlying reason.

When 20% of our population mingle freely on a daily basis, blaming the wider public for not being more stringent is a cop out. It's lazy, fanciful thinking.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2020, 12:28:19 PM
Schools must remain open where possible.

Mental health is suffering amongst our young big time at secondary level. At nursery level our children are suffering with social development. Parent want the schools open. Who provides care or supports working parents if the children are sent home?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on November 19, 2020, 12:30:10 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2020, 12:28:19 PM
Schools must remain open where possible.

Mental health is suffering amongst our young big time at secondary level. At nursery level our children are suffering with social development. Parent want the schools open. Who provides care or supports working parents if the children are sent home?

Who is it, apart from teachers, who work only 9.15am-2.45pm, thereby negating the need for any outside childcare ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 19, 2020, 12:53:17 PM
I also don't agree with the blanket blame of people are stupid and ignorant etc. Yes some people are. We now have it in our house and it's got nothing to do with not abiding by rules or being stupid or ignorant.

There's a lot more to it than stupidness / ignorance and also based on a call I had with a public health woman on monday they are seeing more than just the wee bullet point list of symptoms. It manifests itself differently across different people. Some just presented headaches being one example.

I would say there's mileage in the difference in demographic between up north and down south too. It's not as simple as people are stupid and ignorant. *Some* people being stupid and ignorant is clearly not helping yes however that is far from always the case.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 19, 2020, 01:03:00 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 19, 2020, 12:53:17 PM
I also don't agree with the blanket blame of people are stupid and ignorant etc. Yes some people are. We now have it in our house and it's got nothing to do with not abiding by rules or being stupid or ignorant.

There's a lot more to it than stupidness / ignorance and also based on a call I had with a public health woman on monday they are seeing more than just the wee bullet point list of symptoms. It manifests itself differently across different people. Some just presented headaches being one example.

I would say there's mileage in the difference in demographic between up north and down south too. It's not as simple as people are stupid and ignorant. *Some* people being stupid and ignorant is clearly not helping yes however that is far from always the case.

Absolutely, there is too much nearly shaming with regards to Covid.

This time last year if you had a runny nose or a sore head you'd be sitting at your desk getting on with it thinking about going to the cot later tonight.

Some people are just going to get this, whatever the kink is in the DNA someone more informed might be able to comment. Some will have had it reading this and not even know.  The vast majority will never have it, it's just one of these strange things.

Hope all is well at home and everyone gets through it no bother.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 19, 2020, 01:07:54 PM
So our one year old tested positive on monday which was a bit of a shock to the system. I think the baby part of the nursery is now shut though we can't go near it anyway but we would feel a bit guilty about that though tbh it's the only place I can really see it having come from.

Like you say there can be a shaming. Ah I follow guidelines I don't get it - you mustn't be following guidelines. Well we did too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2020, 01:09:07 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 19, 2020, 12:30:10 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2020, 12:28:19 PM
Schools must remain open where possible.

Mental health is suffering amongst our young big time at secondary level. At nursery level our children are suffering with social development. Parent want the schools open. Who provides care or supports working parents if the children are sent home?

Who is it, apart from teachers, who work only 9.15am-2.45pm, thereby negating the need for any outside childcare ?

Not sure I follow
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2020, 01:11:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 19, 2020, 01:07:54 PM
So our one year old tested positive on monday which was a bit of a shock to the system. I think the baby part of the nursery is now shut though we can't go near it anyway but we would feel a bit guilty about that though tbh it's the only place I can really see it having come from.

Like you say there can be a shaming. Ah I follow guidelines I don't get it - you mustn't be following guidelines. Well we did too.

I hope he/she keeps well.
Myself, my mother and nephew had it. Thankfully we all recovered well

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 19, 2020, 01:18:03 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on November 19, 2020, 11:38:29 AM
A few points on schools.
My wife is a teacher in a primary school and they have a number of parents sending their kids to school even though they themselves have tested positive. The school finds out through other channels, such as other parents informing them.

They have had cases of parents sending kids to school while awaiting results of tests. One specific case, a parent dropped child off at the door and walked away, only to walk back 5 mins later to say her results had just come back and she's positive and so needs to take her kid home. Neither should have been out of the house when waiting results.

Several teachers and teaching assistants have had to go off with covid and/or isolating.

In all of these cases, no other children or staff were asked to isolate by the school (I dont actually know what should happen though).

Separately, I have two older kids in secondary school. Both have had close friends diagnose positive and in both cases neither of their classes were asked to isolate at home (again I dont know the regulations here).

My wife had an email last night from a teachers union asking teachers to inform the union if their principles had been asking them not to take tests or report isolated incidents of children testing positive. Apparently some head teachers are doing this.

So, what does all this mean?
Personally, I think we don't have a clear view on the problem from schools for a number of reasons. People are not taking responsibility and isolating themselves or family when they should be. They are not always informing the schools of testing or positive tests. And the schools, for what ever reason, are potentially not reporting all incidents or are not isolating class groups when they should be (based in anecdotal info).

The point is that schools could be run in a fairly safe way, but many are not, for various reasons.

Quote
One thing that is clear, the health service is on its knees. The DUP in particular I feel have contributed to this greatly.
The wider public are not following the rules as stringently as they should be and there is a sizeable group of people who are not following any rules but their own.

Swann has called for the restrictions to be extended, as the health service is at full capacity. As Christmas is bound to make things worse, it is vary dangerous to have the health capacity already stretched before you come into it.
[/quote]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 19, 2020, 01:21:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2020, 01:11:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 19, 2020, 01:07:54 PM
So our one year old tested positive on monday which was a bit of a shock to the system. I think the baby part of the nursery is now shut though we can't go near it anyway but we would feel a bit guilty about that though tbh it's the only place I can really see it having come from.

Like you say there can be a shaming. Ah I follow guidelines I don't get it - you mustn't be following guidelines. Well we did too.

I hope he/she keeps well.
Myself, my mother and nephew had it. Thankfully we all recovered well

Thanks. He's had it minimum a week now and tbh if you didn't know you wouldn't think there was anything wrong with him at all. It's me and the wife I'd be more worried about now!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2020, 01:31:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 19, 2020, 01:21:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2020, 01:11:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 19, 2020, 01:07:54 PM
So our one year old tested positive on monday which was a bit of a shock to the system. I think the baby part of the nursery is now shut though we can't go near it anyway but we would feel a bit guilty about that though tbh it's the only place I can really see it having come from.

Like you say there can be a shaming. Ah I follow guidelines I don't get it - you mustn't be following guidelines. Well we did too.

I hope he/she keeps well.
Myself, my mother and nephew had it. Thankfully we all recovered well

Thanks. He's had it minimum a week now and tbh if you didn't know you wouldn't think there was anything wrong with him at all. It's me and the wife I'd be more worried about now!

We dont fully understand how it spreads. My immediate family and I isolated at home, but we all went about our normal business within the household during that time and strangely nobody else got it. It was the same in the other 2 households I mentioned.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on November 19, 2020, 01:32:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 19, 2020, 01:18:03 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on November 19, 2020, 11:38:29 AM
A few points on schools.
My wife is a teacher in a primary school and they have a number of parents sending their kids to school even though they themselves have tested positive. The school finds out through other channels, such as other parents informing them.

They have had cases of parents sending kids to school while awaiting results of tests. One specific case, a parent dropped child off at the door and walked away, only to walk back 5 mins later to say her results had just come back and she's positive and so needs to take her kid home. Neither should have been out of the house when waiting results.

Several teachers and teaching assistants have had to go off with covid and/or isolating.

In all of these cases, no other children or staff were asked to isolate by the school (I dont actually know what should happen though).

Separately, I have two older kids in secondary school. Both have had close friends diagnose positive and in both cases neither of their classes were asked to isolate at home (again I dont know the regulations here).

My wife had an email last night from a teachers union asking teachers to inform the union if their principles had been asking them not to take tests or report isolated incidents of children testing positive. Apparently some head teachers are doing this.

So, what does all this mean?
Personally, I think we don't have a clear view on the problem from schools for a number of reasons. People are not taking responsibility and isolating themselves or family when they should be. They are not always informing the schools of testing or positive tests. And the schools, for what ever reason, are potentially not reporting all incidents or are not isolating class groups when they should be (based in anecdotal info).

The point is that schools could be run in a fairly safe way, but many are not, for various reasons.

Quote
One thing that is clear, the health service is on its knees. The DUP in particular I feel have contributed to this greatly.
The wider public are not following the rules as stringently as they should be and there is a sizeable group of people who are not following any rules but their own.

Swann has called for the restrictions to be extended, as the health service is at full capacity. As Christmas is bound to make things worse, it is vary dangerous to have the health capacity already stretched before you come into it.
[/quote]

I think the politicians aren't getting anywhere near enough tough questions asked of them regards this, we are now 9 months into this, the first lockdown was 100% required and done well, but there was no forward planning put in place, why were politicians sitting in the summer patting themselves on the back about low numbers instead of looking to the winter months when our NHS is historically always stretched and trying to implement something to ease the burden. Covid isn't stretching our NHS, history tells us that winter is always tough on the health service, politicians and their constant kick the can down the road mentality is what is killing the NHS and putting it under pressure, if a lack of ICU beds is what's meaning tighter restrictions then that's not on Covid that's on years of cuts and trying to get blood out of a stone, our health service has been on the brink for years.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2020, 01:40:08 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on November 19, 2020, 01:32:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 19, 2020, 01:18:03 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on November 19, 2020, 11:38:29 AM
A few points on schools.
My wife is a teacher in a primary school and they have a number of parents sending their kids to school even though they themselves have tested positive. The school finds out through other channels, such as other parents informing them.

They have had cases of parents sending kids to school while awaiting results of tests. One specific case, a parent dropped child off at the door and walked away, only to walk back 5 mins later to say her results had just come back and she's positive and so needs to take her kid home. Neither should have been out of the house when waiting results.

Several teachers and teaching assistants have had to go off with covid and/or isolating.

In all of these cases, no other children or staff were asked to isolate by the school (I dont actually know what should happen though).

Separately, I have two older kids in secondary school. Both have had close friends diagnose positive and in both cases neither of their classes were asked to isolate at home (again I dont know the regulations here).

My wife had an email last night from a teachers union asking teachers to inform the union if their principles had been asking them not to take tests or report isolated incidents of children testing positive. Apparently some head teachers are doing this.

So, what does all this mean?
Personally, I think we don't have a clear view on the problem from schools for a number of reasons. People are not taking responsibility and isolating themselves or family when they should be. They are not always informing the schools of testing or positive tests. And the schools, for what ever reason, are potentially not reporting all incidents or are not isolating class groups when they should be (based in anecdotal info).

The point is that schools could be run in a fairly safe way, but many are not, for various reasons.

Quote
One thing that is clear, the health service is on its knees. The DUP in particular I feel have contributed to this greatly.
The wider public are not following the rules as stringently as they should be and there is a sizeable group of people who are not following any rules but their own.

Swann has called for the restrictions to be extended, as the health service is at full capacity. As Christmas is bound to make things worse, it is vary dangerous to have the health capacity already stretched before you come into it.

I think the politicians aren't getting anywhere near enough tough questions asked of them regards this, we are now 9 months into this, the first lockdown was 100% required and done well, but there was no forward planning put in place, why were politicians sitting in the summer patting themselves on the back about low numbers instead of looking to the winter months when our NHS is historically always stretched and trying to implement something to ease the burden. Covid isn't stretching our NHS, history tells us that winter is always tough on the health service, politicians and their constant kick the can down the road mentality is what is killing the NHS and putting it under pressure, if a lack of ICU beds is what's meaning tighter restrictions then that's not on Covid that's on years of cuts and trying to get blood out of a stone, our health service has been on the brink for years.
[/quote]

Yes. Why? Our politicians set our local NHS back 3 years with no activity at Stormont and then, I stand corrected on this if im wrong, no major changes were made since March either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 19, 2020, 01:59:20 PM
It has probably been on the brink for more than 3 years but the 3 years most certainly haven't helped. I imagine that with the current covid scenario they can't really do any major changes. What they do if or when we get over this is the question.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 19, 2020, 08:49:14 PM
Circuit breaker for NI for two weeks from next Friday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2020, 08:55:14 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 19, 2020, 08:49:14 PM
Circuit breaker for NI for two weeks from next Friday.

Are we not on a circuit breaker?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on November 19, 2020, 08:59:46 PM
The retail shops in the north will be very very busy next week
Ya couldn't make this up
Watch the numbers go up in 12 days time
A circuit breaker in the middle of a circuit breaker
OMG
What do these people be thinking?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 19, 2020, 09:04:46 PM
A week to get your hair done Milltown!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on November 19, 2020, 09:06:58 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on November 19, 2020, 08:59:46 PM

A circuit breaker in the middle of a circuit breaker

Where are you getting that from? A circuit breaker announced from 27/11. Which other circuit breaker is that in the middle of?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 19, 2020, 09:07:49 PM
Full pelt for Christmas dinner so we can lock down for the whole of January
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2020, 09:09:03 PM
Coronavirus in Switzerland

https://youtu.be/3SiygTGPc1s
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on November 19, 2020, 09:10:04 PM
The circuit breaker that ends next Friday the 27th!!
That's what one ya clown
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 19, 2020, 09:27:51 PM
Are churches closed from next Friday?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on November 19, 2020, 09:28:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on November 19, 2020, 09:10:04 PM
The circuit breaker that ends next Friday the 27th!!
That's what one ya clown

So the one that starts on 27/11 is in the middle of the one that ends in the 27/11??

As you said yourself - OMG
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2020, 09:33:23 PM
I truly give up with this bunch of fuckwits!

I don't believe they actually know what they are doing!!!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 19, 2020, 09:39:24 PM
Closure of all non-essential retail

Closure of close contact services such as hair and beauty salons and driving instructors; exemptions for those in film and TV production, those involved in health and social care services and elite sport services

Hospitality will only be permitted to offer takeaway services - food and drink in motorway services, airports and harbour terminals remain open

Closure of all leisure and entertainment to include soft play areas, gyms and swimming pools

Sporting events only permitted at elite level and to be played without spectators

Closure of places of worship with exceptions for weddings, civil partnerships and funerals - the maximum number present will remain at 25

It is understood that close contact services and coffee shops that are due to reopen on Friday can still do so - but only for one week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on November 19, 2020, 09:51:26 PM
DUP are backtracking after trying to push things on last week.

People on here giving out about the parties at Stormont.

In reality 4 are of the same page, the DUP are even not in the book.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on November 19, 2020, 10:02:18 PM
Why can they not close schools? Or operate on alternate weeks eg half of each year group attend class via zoom at home while the other half is physically in the school building?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on November 19, 2020, 10:14:33 PM
Key thing is nobody knows how many teachers are off with Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 19, 2020, 10:16:37 PM
What constantly baffles me with that executive and COVID decisions is this... they constantly say it takes two weeks of lockdown to see results yet they set up two week lockdowns at a time. How can you ever know the results of that if you do two weeks then go back?

(Many other things baffle me too like the week in between we have with places having spent money to reopen to be told they're shut again in a week plus they seem to want to do harder restrictions now to avoid them at Christmas which is surely just inviting a spike round post Christmas??)

The elephant in the room is constantly schools.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on November 19, 2020, 10:19:41 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 19, 2020, 10:02:18 PM
Why can they not close schools? Or operate on alternate weeks eg half of each year group attend class via zoom at home while the other half is physically in the school building?

Because closing school puts pressure on working Parents.

Because closing school means the kids will hang out together anyway.

Because closing schools puts pressure on finishing School curriculums.

Because Schools have been closed for 3 and a half months already.

Because Teachers get full wages whether Schools are open or closed.

Because everybody else is getting on with things.

Because Economics and Science have merged and are try to keep this sh1t show going!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2020, 10:21:55 PM
If all retail and work from home is encouraged then closing schools shouldn't be a hassle
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on November 19, 2020, 10:39:48 PM
There is no win win here and there never has been and never will be until the vaccination process kicks in. No matter what decisions are made it is going to upset and hurt someone. COVID doesn't give a shite about any of this. Mind you it is not helped by the clowns on the hill. They managed to make some kind of a fist of things earlier in the year but in the last few months it's been f**k up after f**k up. Time they stepped up and started supporting business and jobs.

I see a lot of people on social media banging on about we need a plan to live with this and we can't keep having lockdowns. They are right but what they don't want to acknowledge is that there is a plan it's just a large percentage of people don't want to follow the rules. Following the rules won't make COVID magically disappear but it will keep things running at some level of normality and manageable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on November 19, 2020, 10:49:03 PM
Why not cut to the chase and close everything down from tomorrow ?
Shops Hairdressers Cafes Schools gyms leisure centres all packed next week
Expect a spike in about 12 days
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on November 19, 2020, 11:36:06 PM
Are teachers the new heroes? Working on the front line each day. Actually, f**k them. They get paid far too much and get too many holidays.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on November 19, 2020, 11:43:14 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 19, 2020, 11:36:06 PM
Are teachers the new heroes? Working on the front line each day. Actually, f**k them. They get paid far too much and get too many holidays.

No
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on November 19, 2020, 11:45:37 PM
usual sh*tshow in the sick counties, couldn't run a bath ffs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 20, 2020, 08:04:56 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2020, 10:19:41 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 19, 2020, 10:02:18 PM
Why can they not close schools? Or operate on alternate weeks eg half of each year group attend class via zoom at home while the other half is physically in the school building?

Because closing school puts pressure on working Parents.

Because closing school means the kids will hang out together anyway.

Because closing schools puts pressure on finishing School curriculums.

Because Schools have been closed for 3 and a half months already.

Because Teachers get full wages whether Schools are open or closed.

Because everybody else is getting on with things.

Because Economics and Science have merged and are try to keep this sh1t show going!

Can we get this blown up 10 by 10 and put onto every billboard in the country please. Some of the comments im reading tonight on twitter would depress you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on November 20, 2020, 08:24:40 AM
Quote from: general_lee on November 19, 2020, 10:02:18 PM
Why can they not close schools? Or operate on alternate weeks eg half of each year group attend class via zoom at home while the other half is physically in the school building?

Alternate weeks has a lot of problems.

Of the options available it's a complete wrecker for the economy. Full lock downs but timed to be in line with elongated school breaks is probably better. Announce them well in advance and really focus on compliance during the lockdowns. Just to take the heat out of the situation until we have a better range of tools. In the run up and early parts of the winter especially

If schools are part of the lockdown they will be more effective. If they are more effective then more sectors can be considered to be opened in between. Considered but not a free for all. The clear start and end dates allows sectors to plan

None of this is ideal but we have to look for what is the best available option.

Needless to say personal compliance remains the key. Non compliance fecks this up for everyone
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on November 20, 2020, 08:39:05 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 20, 2020, 08:24:40 AM
Quote from: general_lee on November 19, 2020, 10:02:18 PM
Why can they not close schools? Or operate on alternate weeks eg half of each year group attend class via zoom at home while the other half is physically in the school building?

Alternate weeks has a lot of problems.

Of the options available it's a complete wrecker for the economy. Full lock downs but timed to be in line with elongated school breaks is probably better. Announce them well in advance and really focus on compliance during the lockdowns. Just to take the heat out of the situation until we have a better range of tools. In the run up and early parts of the winter especially

If schools are part of the lockdown they will be more effective. If they are more effective then more sectors can be considered to be opened in between. Considered but not a free for all. The clear start and end dates allows sectors to plan

None of this is ideal but we have to look for what is the best available option.

Needless to say personal compliance remains the key. Non compliance fecks this up for everyone

Personal compliance matters little if your kid is infected in school, never shows any symptoms, but passes it onto all your daily family members, who spend a week spreading it, before one of them starts to cough a little.

Or do we expect that the guys on the till at Tesco should have a 6th sense?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 20, 2020, 09:20:36 AM
Disgusting from all at Stormont.

And not one with the heart to do an interview last night.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on November 20, 2020, 09:20:59 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 20, 2020, 08:39:05 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 20, 2020, 08:24:40 AM
Quote from: general_lee on November 19, 2020, 10:02:18 PM
Why can they not close schools? Or operate on alternate weeks eg half of each year group attend class via zoom at home while the other half is physically in the school building?

Alternate weeks has a lot of problems.

Of the options available it's a complete wrecker for the economy. Full lock downs but timed to be in line with elongated school breaks is probably better. Announce them well in advance and really focus on compliance during the lockdowns. Just to take the heat out of the situation until we have a better range of tools. In the run up and early parts of the winter especially

If schools are part of the lockdown they will be more effective. If they are more effective then more sectors can be considered to be opened in between. Considered but not a free for all. The clear start and end dates allows sectors to plan

None of this is ideal but we have to look for what is the best available option.

Needless to say personal compliance remains the key. Non compliance fecks this up for everyone

Personal compliance matters little if your kid is infected in school, never shows any symptoms, but passes it onto all your daily family members, who spend a week spreading it, before one of them starts to cough a little.

Or do we expect that the guys on the till at Tesco should have a 6th sense?

Well apparently you have to decide not to get Covid. I refer you to Angelo for further detail.

By compliance I mean sticking to the rules and guidelines as a minimum
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 20, 2020, 09:21:06 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 20, 2020, 08:04:56 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2020, 10:19:41 PM
Quote from: general_lee on November 19, 2020, 10:02:18 PM
Why can they not close schools? Or operate on alternate weeks eg half of each year group attend class via zoom at home while the other half is physically in the school building?

Because closing school puts pressure on working Parents.

Because closing school means the kids will hang out together anyway.

Because closing schools puts pressure on finishing School curriculums.

Because Schools have been closed for 3 and a half months already.

Because Teachers get full wages whether Schools are open or closed.

Because everybody else is getting on with things.

Because Economics and Science have merged and are try to keep this sh1t show going!

Can we get this blown up 10 by 10 and put onto every billboard in the country please. Some of the comments in reading tonight on twitter would depress you.

Do you know the most depressing thing is for me. Politicians all gloating on twitter about "I told you so" instaed of trying to suggest solutoinss. A lot of the small businesses are still waiting their financial help here in Derry from 7 weeks ago(we shut down 2 weeks earlier)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 09:48:02 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2020, 10:21:55 PM
If all retail and work from home is encouraged then closing schools shouldn't be a hassle

Have you ever tried working at home with young kids?! 

The anger among the business community is at boiling point, if the View was anything to go by last night.  Not so much the need for restrictions but the way things have been botched up the last few weeks and months.  Earlier and clearer restrictions with a support package in place needed. But instead we got a piecemeal fudge, with no support, with inevitable restrictions now in the busiest part of the year.  Bad bad couple of weeks for the DUP but no doubt they'll not suffer at the ballot box.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 20, 2020, 10:07:27 AM
Quote from: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 09:48:02 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2020, 10:21:55 PM
If all retail and work from home is encouraged then closing schools shouldn't be a hassle

Have you ever tried working at home with young kids?! 

The anger among the business community is at boiling point, if the View was anything to go by last night.  Not so much the need for restrictions but the way things have been botched up the last few weeks and months.  Earlier and clearer restrictions with a support package in place needed. But instead we got a piecemeal fudge, with no support, with inevitable restrictions now in the busiest part of the year.  Bad bad couple of weeks for the DUP but no doubt they'll not suffer at the ballot box.

Been very lucky, as the wife is a teacher, though my kids are adults now, so I'd imagine its tough enough.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on November 20, 2020, 10:16:05 AM
I give up, I haven't really said too much on the subject but I and my brother run a small family business, few staff nothing too big. we have been closed down on a number of occasions, we have had to book and cancel work on and off, its been extremely hard and to say we've tightened our belt is a massive understatement but were trying to keep going and hopefully we can just about keep the lights on.

I am so angry at our politicians, they have constantly kicked the can down the road, the initial lockdown was 100% justified, it worked and gave us time to get a handle on things. but instead of putting something in place for the inevitable spike in the winter when we are always close to capacity they sat and applauded each other and took their holidays. when this is over I think if there is an independent inquiry into this I think there will be a lot of hard questions needing asked and I dont think the public will like the answers.

ive seen on twitter people talking about how this is to give people a Christmas with family, BS I would sacrifice the next 10 christmases and easters with my family and friends if it meant keeping just 1 local shop open and allowing them to keep staff and suppliers in work, its ok for people in government jobs or public sector jobs to say ah well close things down, for private businesses it is not on.

totally scundered with all this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 10:24:38 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on November 20, 2020, 10:16:05 AM
I give up, I haven't really said too much on the subject but I and my brother run a small family business, few staff nothing too big. we have been closed down on a number of occasions, we have had to book and cancel work on and off, its been extremely hard and to say we've tightened our belt is a massive understatement but were trying to keep going and hopefully we can just about keep the lights on.

I am so angry at our politicians, they have constantly kicked the can down the road, the initial lockdown was 100% justified, it worked and gave us time to get a handle on things. but instead of putting something in place for the inevitable spike in the winter when we are always close to capacity they sat and applauded each other and took their holidays. when this is over I think if there is an independent inquiry into this I think there will be a lot of hard questions needing asked and I dont think the public will like the answers.

ive seen on twitter people talking about how this is to give people a Christmas with family, BS I would sacrifice the next 10 christmases and easters with my family and friends if it meant keeping just 1 local shop open and allowing them to keep staff and suppliers in work, its ok for people in government jobs or public sector jobs to say ah well close things down, for private businesses it is not on.

totally scundered with all this

Your's would be a typical experience. Businesses have bent over backwards and shown an amazing amount of resilience. 
There probably will be an enquiry of sorts afterwards - the auditing has already started in England, where it's been shown the Tories blew millions on rogue PPE suppliers.  But if RHI is anything to go by, if there is an enquiry here it will make life uncomfortable for the decision makers, but nothing really will happen, or change.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 10:26:05 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 20, 2020, 10:07:27 AM
Quote from: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 09:48:02 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2020, 10:21:55 PM
If all retail and work from home is encouraged then closing schools shouldn't be a hassle

Have you ever tried working at home with young kids?! 

The anger among the business community is at boiling point, if the View was anything to go by last night.  Not so much the need for restrictions but the way things have been botched up the last few weeks and months.  Earlier and clearer restrictions with a support package in place needed. But instead we got a piecemeal fudge, with no support, with inevitable restrictions now in the busiest part of the year.  Bad bad couple of weeks for the DUP but no doubt they'll not suffer at the ballot box.

Been very lucky, as the wife is a teacher, though my kids are adults now, so I'd imagine its tough enough.

Put it like this, you'd need a sympathetic employer!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on November 20, 2020, 10:37:14 AM
I don't envy self employed workers or business owners one bit in the current situation.

If the pot of money that is muted to be available is there, then who is holding up the support payments? Diane Dodds?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on November 20, 2020, 10:40:11 AM
I can't help feel there's a bit of double speak from some of the business organisations. Some of them argued against Face masks, then they argued against lockdowns. And the DUP got spooked and wouldn't agree to the obvious which was a hard lockdown early. Now the business organisations are angry because it's open/close/open/close.  I think they've contributed to the mess.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on November 20, 2020, 10:48:19 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 20, 2020, 10:40:11 AM
I can't help feel there's a bit of double speak from some of the business organisations. Some of them argued against Face masks, then they argued against lockdowns. And the DUP got spooked and wouldn't agree to the obvious which was a hard lockdown early. Now the business organisations are angry because it's open/close/open/close.  I think they've contributed to the mess.

How have people trying to make a living contributed to the mess? that's a very crass statement. you mean the facemarks that for a long time we were told would make no difference?

You realise businesses have to purchase stock in advance? for example people saying ah cafes shouldn't open for 1 week its not worth it, what about the cafes who have probably ordered stock that otherwise will have to be thrown out costing them more money they dont have?

Lets be clear, the reason for lockdowns are failures in policy (I use that term loosely) had our govt got a plan in place around may/ June for the winter then we could have got through this a lot easier, but they didn't, we went from week to week and a 'lets see' policy.

it is not the virus that is causing this its the govt making the decisions. an example. if I take my car for a service and the mechanic tells me its dead on at the min but the timing belt is gonna go in 20k miles and needs replaced soon, I go dead on and driver on and it goes at 19k wrecking my engine and leaving me without a car, is it the timing belts fault or is it my fault for not doing something about it sooner and leaving it to the last minute? You can be proactive or reactive and our government have been constantly reactive, which, anyone will tell you will eventually blow up in your face.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on November 20, 2020, 10:52:58 AM
I said business organisations, not businesses.
And I could go on all day criticising the ineptitude of our politicians, but I was leaving that to others.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on November 20, 2020, 10:57:58 AM
The problem with the government is the planning - zero guidance and making decisions at the last minute.
All because they are incompetent pricks.

Make no mistake the green and orange is the problem here - but sure at the next election nothing will change.

I think a government where the main party are neutral could go quite well.

This lockdown is nothing like the one in March because schools are open - biggest spreader of Covid.

And whisper it quietly............if a child if off school because of Covid or isolatio,n teachers have been told to mark the child in as present.
The attendance records wont look as bad and we will not have a clear view of the amount of kids off school.
Nice one Mr Weir
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 20, 2020, 11:13:10 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 20, 2020, 10:57:58 AM
The problem with the government is the planning - zero guidance and making decisions at the last minute.
All because they are incompetent pricks.

Make no mistake the green and orange is the problem here - but sure at the next election nothing will change.

I think a government where the main party are neutral could go quite well.

This lockdown is nothing like the one in March because schools are open - biggest spreader of Covid.

And whisper it quietly............if a child if off school because of Covid or isolatio,n teachers have been told to mark the child in as present.
The attendance records wont look as bad and we will not have a clear view of the amount of kids off school.
Nice one Mr Weir

My own daughter was off for 2 weeks, they were given work and classes were done on line, so while they were not in, they were still expected to produce work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 20, 2020, 11:27:51 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 20, 2020, 10:57:58 AM
The problem with the government is the planning - zero guidance and making decisions at the last minute.
All because they are incompetent pricks.

Make no mistake the green and orange is the problem here - but sure at the next election nothing will change.

I think a government where the main party are neutral could go quite well.

This lockdown is nothing like the one in March because schools are open - biggest spreader of Covid.

And whisper it quietly............if a child if off school because of Covid or isolatio,n teachers have been told to mark the child in as present.
The attendance records wont look as bad and we will not have a clear view of the amount of kids off school.
Nice one Mr Weir

Where is your evidence firstly that schools are biggest spreaders and secondly that they are marking people present?

What we do know but is that the official figures on death arent right because certs are not accurate!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on November 20, 2020, 11:41:26 AM
I have no doubt schools and third level education are having an impact on the number of cases, however I have yet to see any proposals to help manage that better, because as far as I understand every kid has a right to an education, on top of that and unfortunately, school is the only safe place for a large number of kids and somewhere they can get a decent meal.

I asked the following on the teachers thread with no response;

"From a secondary teacher's experience, does blended learning work? Does it negatively affect kids from (for want of a better term) a lower socio economic background to a greater degree?

Has anything been done to facilitate future blended learning since returning to school full time?"

Those in the private sector have had to evolve to survive and what is clear is that even that evolution of businesses has not been enough as they face in to another lock down. However in the public sector there appears (this is directed at unions) to be a 'not my job' attitude. Our politicians have time and time again made it clear that they have no desire to close schools again, therefore if the teaching unions as they would have you believe are actually interested in the H&S of their staff what innovative or otherwise approached have they proposed to make their work environment safer?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on November 20, 2020, 11:54:20 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 20, 2020, 11:27:51 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 20, 2020, 10:57:58 AM
The problem with the government is the planning - zero guidance and making decisions at the last minute.
All because they are incompetent pricks.

Make no mistake the green and orange is the problem here - but sure at the next election nothing will change.

I think a government where the main party are neutral could go quite well.

This lockdown is nothing like the one in March because schools are open - biggest spreader of Covid.

And whisper it quietly............if a child if off school because of Covid or isolatio,n teachers have been told to mark the child in as present.
The attendance records wont look as bad and we will not have a clear view of the amount of kids off school.
Nice one Mr Weir

Where is your evidence firstly that schools are biggest spreaders and secondly that they are marking people present?

What we do know but is that the official figures on death arent right because certs are not accurate!

I will find it for you.

In the meantime its great to see the numbers drop during the current lockdown isnt it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 20, 2020, 11:57:18 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on November 20, 2020, 10:48:19 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on November 20, 2020, 10:40:11 AM
I can't help feel there's a bit of double speak from some of the business organisations. Some of them argued against Face masks, then they argued against lockdowns. And the DUP got spooked and wouldn't agree to the obvious which was a hard lockdown early. Now the business organisations are angry because it's open/close/open/close.  I think they've contributed to the mess.

How have people trying to make a living contributed to the mess? that's a very crass statement. you mean the facemarks that for a long time we were told would make no difference?

You realise businesses have to purchase stock in advance? for example people saying ah cafes shouldn't open for 1 week its not worth it, what about the cafes who have probably ordered stock that otherwise will have to be thrown out costing them more money they dont have?

Lets be clear, the reason for lockdowns are failures in policy (I use that term loosely) had our govt got a plan in place around may/ June for the winter then we could have got through this a lot easier, but they didn't, we went from week to week and a 'lets see' policy.

it is not the virus that is causing this its the govt making the decisions. an example. if I take my car for a service and the mechanic tells me its dead on at the min but the timing belt is gonna go in 20k miles and needs replaced soon, I go dead on and driver on and it goes at 19k wrecking my engine and leaving me without a car, is it the timing belts fault or is it my fault for not doing something about it sooner and leaving it to the last minute? You can be proactive or reactive and our government have been constantly reactive, which, anyone will tell you will eventually blow up in your face.

The low rates achieved in the summer were hard earned and were squandered. A simple extrapolation of the R value would indicate that trouble was coming down the road, any reduction in that value would have allowed things keep open longer. Yet, everyone is agitating for what they want, on the basis that it doesn't make much difference, when the aggregate effect of all of these things did mean that we are where we are. Business didn't help, rather than get on board they say things like enforcing masks is not our job, let someone else do it. They should have said we will do our bit and not allow anyone without a mask be served in our premises. Government has failed, they are willing to close things, but are not willing to require detailed strict regulations on those places open.

On the schools thing, as far as I know universities are all electronic teaching bar labs where you mix chemicals and the like. The problems are being caused by the delinquent recreational activities of students. Some form of blended learning would also be appropriate for old school students, but the authorities have done nothing to plan this. As for the contention that schools cause most Covid transmission, this is obviously nonsense as schools have remained open and rates have fallen in recent times throughout Europe. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on November 20, 2020, 11:58:19 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 20, 2020, 11:54:20 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 20, 2020, 11:27:51 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 20, 2020, 10:57:58 AM
The problem with the government is the planning - zero guidance and making decisions at the last minute.
All because they are incompetent pricks.

Make no mistake the green and orange is the problem here - but sure at the next election nothing will change.

I think a government where the main party are neutral could go quite well.

This lockdown is nothing like the one in March because schools are open - biggest spreader of Covid.

And whisper it quietly............if a child if off school because of Covid or isolatio,n teachers have been told to mark the child in as present.
The attendance records wont look as bad and we will not have a clear view of the amount of kids off school.
Nice one Mr Weir

Where is your evidence firstly that schools are biggest spreaders and secondly that they are marking people present?

What we do know but is that the official figures on death arent right because certs are not accurate!

I will find it for you.

In the meantime its great to see the numbers drop during the current lockdown isnt it?

They have dropped - not to where they need to be but they are about half of what they were last month.

What is the solution? Close all schools? For how long? Try and make the time up later in the year or just accept it as collateral damage?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on November 20, 2020, 12:04:36 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on November 20, 2020, 11:58:19 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 20, 2020, 11:54:20 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 20, 2020, 11:27:51 AM
Quote from: Taylor on November 20, 2020, 10:57:58 AM
The problem with the government is the planning - zero guidance and making decisions at the last minute.
All because they are incompetent pricks.

Make no mistake the green and orange is the problem here - but sure at the next election nothing will change.

I think a government where the main party are neutral could go quite well.

This lockdown is nothing like the one in March because schools are open - biggest spreader of Covid.

And whisper it quietly............if a child if off school because of Covid or isolatio,n teachers have been told to mark the child in as present.
The attendance records wont look as bad and we will not have a clear view of the amount of kids off school.
Nice one Mr Weir

Where is your evidence firstly that schools are biggest spreaders and secondly that they are marking people present?

What we do know but is that the official figures on death arent right because certs are not accurate!

I will find it for you.

In the meantime its great to see the numbers drop during the current lockdown isnt it?

They have dropped - not to where they need to be but they are about half of what they were last month.

What is the solution? Close all schools? For how long? Try and make the time up later in the year or just accept it as collateral damage?

May have been exaggerating about schools being the worst - apologies - however they absolutely help spread it - that is a given.

Regarding marking kids in who are absent due to Covid related (have it or self isolation) - it is absolutely happening.
Not sure how I can give evidence on it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 20, 2020, 12:08:57 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on November 20, 2020, 11:41:26 AM
I have no doubt schools and third level education are having an impact on the number of cases, however I have yet to see any proposals to help manage that better, because as far as I understand every kid has a right to an education, on top of that and unfortunately, school is the only safe place for a large number of kids and somewhere they can get a decent meal.

I asked the following on the teachers thread with no response;

"From a secondary teacher's experience, does blended learning work? Does it negatively affect kids from (for want of a better term) a lower socio economic background to a greater degree?

Has anything been done to facilitate future blended learning since returning to school full time?"

Those in the private sector have had to evolve to survive and what is clear is that even that evolution of businesses has not been enough as they face in to another lock down. However in the public sector there appears (this is directed at unions) to be a 'not my job' attitude. Our politicians have time and time again made it clear that they have no desire to close schools again, therefore if the teaching unions as they would have you believe are actually interested in the H&S of their staff what innovative or otherwise approached have they proposed to make their work environment safer?

Third level classes almost non existent atm-its almost all zoom classes outside lab  work. Now parties in Holylands that's a different thing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Verticalball on November 20, 2020, 12:16:15 PM
To say the schools are marking pupils who are absent due to Covid as present is nonsense. School attendance is recorded by SIMs, a program used across the North in all schools and the code for Covid related absence or absence due to self-isolation is '8'. This is the guidance from the Department of Education. This covers the absence so that a student is not disadvantaged down the line by a poor attendance record which cannot be explained. But they are still marked as not in school and the number of students coded under '8' can easily be kept on record by the Department. I like a good conspiracy theory as much as anybody but nothing to see here....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 20, 2020, 08:59:34 PM
If this was China, there would be a few ministers in Stormont taken out and f**king shot for gross incompetence.
In fact, there probably would be very few of them wouldn't be taken out and shot.


It was established in Feb/March that the golden fundamental of dealing with a spreading virus is intervene early and do so severely.
Yet, 9 months later and they are still doing things piecemeal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on November 20, 2020, 09:09:47 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 20, 2020, 08:59:34 PM
If this was China, there would be a few ministers in Stormont taken out and f**king shot for gross incompetence.
In fact, there probably would be very few of them wouldn't be taken out and shot.


It was established in Feb/March that the golden fundamental of dealing with a spreading virus is intervene early and do so severely.
Yet, 9 months later and they are still doing things piecemeal.

Who wouldn't be taken out and shot ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on November 20, 2020, 09:33:38 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 20, 2020, 08:59:34 PM
If this was China, there would be a few ministers in Stormont taken out and f**king shot for gross incompetence.
In fact, there probably would be very few of them wouldn't be taken out and shot.


It was established in Feb/March that the golden fundamental of dealing with a spreading virus is intervene early and do so severely.
Yet, 9 months later and they are still doing things piecemeal.

This, like foot and mouth, should have been dealt with on an all island basis from the start.

That's where it all went wrong in terms of the communication and mixed messages. DUP wanted to hang out to London's coat tails.

Even up to this week, the folks on the hill are getting it in the neck from everybody.  Thing is, and I keep repeating it, that it was 4 parties V 1 in terms of agreement in planning a way forward (rightly or wrongly btw) and the DUP very clearly call in the vote, which was disgraceful.

The DUP are making a mess of it but people are blaming every other political party there...seems to be down to political point scoring. 

Last night, the DUP completed the biggest turn around ever but everybody takes the flack for it.

Needs to called out for what it is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 20, 2020, 09:47:32 PM
Foster said medical advice had changed. What has changed?? Surely medical advice has been the same for a long time and this is just a crock of shit?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on November 22, 2020, 06:51:11 PM

Weekly update for the ROI, the progress of the last month has stalled. Need to get back on track for the week ahead.

Cases 2622. (9 more than last week)
Reported Deaths 45 ( 11 more than last week)

In Hospital  282 (33 more than last week)
In ICU 31 ( no change)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 23, 2020, 10:33:29 AM
Oxford vaccine at least 70% effective and likely to be 90% effective in certain dosage combinations. The best plan seems to be a low dose followed by a second slightly higher dose.
This is a really good, as this is already being produced and the logistics are straightforward as it can be kept in the fridge.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 23, 2020, 11:12:18 AM
Scenes in Belfast this weekend getting a bit of airtime. Can only imagine what it will be like mid December when everything re opens....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 23, 2020, 11:13:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 23, 2020, 11:12:18 AM
Scenes in Belfast this weekend getting a bit of airtime. Can only imagine what it will be like mid December when everything re opens....

Im sort of lost on what people want at this stage?

Open, shut, open and shut or what?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 23, 2020, 11:25:57 AM
Usual overreaction to the new lockdown (that wasn't meant to be implemented with the circuit breaker...).

Just think when it reopens, with Xmas round the corner. It's going to be a mess. You know what people are like at Xmas at the best of times.

As per imtommygunn, you'd like to see what the medical advice that changed the DUPs mind was. It would be extremely interesting reading.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 23, 2020, 11:27:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 23, 2020, 11:13:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 23, 2020, 11:12:18 AM
Scenes in Belfast this weekend getting a bit of airtime. Can only imagine what it will be like mid December when everything re opens....

Im sort of lost on what people want at this stage?

Open, shut, open and shut or what?

They want Tazering.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on November 23, 2020, 11:33:00 AM
Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2020, 09:33:38 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 20, 2020, 08:59:34 PM
If this was China, there would be a few ministers in Stormont taken out and f**king shot for gross incompetence.
In fact, there probably would be very few of them wouldn't be taken out and shot.


It was established in Feb/March that the golden fundamental of dealing with a spreading virus is intervene early and do so severely.
Yet, 9 months later and they are still doing things piecemeal.

This, like foot and mouth, should have been dealt with on an all island basis from the start.

That's where it all went wrong in terms of the communication and mixed messages. DUP wanted to hang out to London's coat tails.

Even up to this week, the folks on the hill are getting it in the neck from everybody.  Thing is, and I keep repeating it, that it was 4 parties V 1 in terms of agreement in planning a way forward (rightly or wrongly btw) and the DUP very clearly call in the vote, which was disgraceful.

The DUP are making a mess of it but people are blaming every other political party there...seems to be down to political point scoring. 

Last night, the DUP completed the biggest turn around ever but everybody takes the flack for it.

Needs to called out for what it is.

When the RoI government ignored scientific advice, allowed things to get worse, then did a u-turn should the north have followed?

That is not an approval of the mess in the north.

How would the all island approach have dealt with the different economic packages in the 2 jurisdictions?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on November 23, 2020, 11:34:53 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 20, 2020, 09:47:32 PM
Foster said medical advice had changed. What has changed?? Surely medical advice has been the same for a long time and this is just a crock of shit?

She should publish the before and after medical advice then.

It's possible that she got a call from Whitehall and told to wise up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 23, 2020, 11:39:35 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 23, 2020, 11:34:53 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 20, 2020, 09:47:32 PM
Foster said medical advice had changed. What has changed?? Surely medical advice has been the same for a long time and this is just a crock of shit?

She should publish the before and after medical advice then.

It's possible that she got a call from Whitehall and told to wise up.

Probably, MON got her call to change her mind from Mary Lou on the Sunday too
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 23, 2020, 11:41:01 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 23, 2020, 11:27:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 23, 2020, 11:13:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 23, 2020, 11:12:18 AM
Scenes in Belfast this weekend getting a bit of airtime. Can only imagine what it will be like mid December when everything re opens....

Im sort of lost on what people want at this stage?

Open, shut, open and shut or what?

They want Tazering.

:D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on November 23, 2020, 12:13:03 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 23, 2020, 11:34:53 AM
It's possible that she got a call from Whitehall and told to wise up.
It's almost certain that she got a call from Westminister and was told to catch a grip.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on November 23, 2020, 12:16:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2020, 10:33:29 AM
Oxford vaccine at least 70% effective and likely to be 90% effective in certain dosage combinations. The best plan seems to be a low dose followed by a second slightly higher dose.
This is a really good, as this is already being produced and the logistics are straightforward as it can be kept in the fridge.
Definitely increases the chances of normality before the summer. Is it realistic to think that once the over 75's and vulnerable receive the vaccine in Jan/Feb 2021 there will be no more lockdowns? Social distancing and mask wearing to continue until mass vaccination is finished?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on November 23, 2020, 12:52:59 PM
Rumours of schools closing early. So lockdown for 2 weeks and then when that's over, close the schools? So the children that are not in school can run about the shopping centres with their mates.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 23, 2020, 12:54:53 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 23, 2020, 12:52:59 PM
Rumours of schools closing early. So lockdown for 2 weeks and then when that's over, close the schools? So the children that are not in school can run about the shopping centres with their mates.

The official line is schools and children to not contribute to the spread of the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NAG1 on November 23, 2020, 12:59:01 PM
If the schools close again surely they will have to look at the transfer test in January and GCSE's etc

So unfair to be putting children through an extra layer of stress in these times.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 23, 2020, 12:59:50 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 23, 2020, 12:52:59 PM
Rumours of schools closing early. So lockdown for 2 weeks and then when that's over, close the schools? So the children that are not in school can run about the shopping centres with their mates.

That would be ridiculous. It is probably what will happen mind you.

I can't see any way that children don't contribute to the spread of this thing at all. We have a one year old in the house who tested positive. They said it can't happen. Well it has.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 23, 2020, 01:03:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 23, 2020, 12:59:50 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 23, 2020, 12:52:59 PM
Rumours of schools closing early. So lockdown for 2 weeks and then when that's over, close the schools? So the children that are not in school can run about the shopping centres with their mates.

That would be ridiculous. It is probably what will happen mind you.

I can't see any way that children don't contribute to the spread of this thing at all. We have a one year old in the house who tested positive. They said it can't happen. Well it has.

Was it not said that children to Nursey age were more susceptible. Then for some reason Primary school age it seems to lessen until they get to secondary school age where its rife?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 23, 2020, 01:13:57 PM
I hadn't read that so not sure on that tbh.

Anyone I talk to with schools of primary school age seem to have seen cases in their schools though. Maybe the number is lower but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 23, 2020, 01:14:09 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 23, 2020, 12:52:59 PM
Rumours of schools closing early. So lockdown for 2 weeks and then when that's over, close the schools? So the children that are not in school can run about the shopping centres with their mates.

ban under 18s from shopping centres then, they buy feck all anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on November 23, 2020, 01:39:21 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 23, 2020, 12:52:59 PM
Rumours of schools closing early. So lockdown for 2 weeks and then when that's over, close the schools? So the children that are not in school can run about the shopping centres with their mates.

To placate the teachers and their unions I assume
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Pub Bore on November 23, 2020, 01:39:55 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 23, 2020, 11:27:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 23, 2020, 11:13:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 23, 2020, 11:12:18 AM
Scenes in Belfast this weekend getting a bit of airtime. Can only imagine what it will be like mid December when everything re opens....

Im sort of lost on what people want at this stage?

Open, shut, open and shut or what?

They want Tazering.

followed by a good boot up the hole.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 23, 2020, 01:48:03 PM
The idea behind schools closing early is so that they cannot be blamed for anyone having to isolate over the Xmas period. 

Assuming that goes ahead, you have to wonder what really is going on here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: square_ball on November 23, 2020, 01:48:56 PM
So what are you going to buy with your £200 vouchers?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Orior on November 23, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
I have a friend who firmly believes that the lockdowns are a complete over-reaction.
1) They claim that covid wards in some hospitals are practically empty.
2) They claim that lockdown and cancellation of hospital services has killed people for reasons other than covid.
3) They claim that flu kills just as many as covid
4) They claim that the death stats are severely skewed because many people have died in hospital from non-covid but get counted as covid

Can anyone help me counteract these arguments?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 23, 2020, 02:09:39 PM
I would ask which hospitals for point 1. Most of them here at the minute seem pretty full and overall hospitals are at 100%+ occupancy.

I think that has been true when we are not in a "wave" but we currently are.

2 probably holds somewhere though how much who knows. 3 depends on 4 and 4 while there is some truth to some of it I think conspiracy theorists have latched onto it and I don't know how anyone would ever quantify it but I do believe it's skewed both ways and people have died at home with it too and not been recorded.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on November 23, 2020, 02:10:42 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
I have a friend who firmly believes that the lockdowns are a complete over-reaction.
1) They claim that covid wards in some hospitals are practically empty.
2) They claim that lockdown and cancellation of hospital services has killed people for reasons other than covid.
3) They claim that flu kills just as many as covid
4) They claim that the death stats are severely skewed because many people have died in hospital from non-covid but get counted as covid

Can anyone help me counteract these arguments?

You'll struggle.
1. The Citywest and Nightingale temporary hospitals were white elephants.
2. Unprovable in the short term but the effects of 2020 undiagnosed cancers etc will probably shock us all in years to come.
3. In some recent years, excess deaths from flu have rivalled those from covid this year.
4. 100% correct.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 23, 2020, 02:12:49 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
I have a friend who firmly believes that the lockdowns are a complete over-reaction.
1) They claim that covid wards in some hospitals are practically empty.
2) They claim that lockdown and cancellation of hospital services has killed people for reasons other than covid.
3) They claim that flu kills just as many as covid
4) They claim that the death stats are severely skewed because many people have died in hospital from non-covid but get counted as covid

Can anyone help me counteract these arguments?

1) That kind of data is easy displayed on the daily dashboard, to be fair, lots are not at full capacity as per yesterday, Antrim is over capacity. Not sure what happens when you are over capacity if you are shifted to another area, presumably so. ( https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/health/doh-db-221120.pdf - Page 20/21)

2) At the risk of this thread going mental....possibly. Would you have went to a hospital when all kinds of stuff was going around in May etc? Not sure I would have. How has that manifested? We don't, maybe we won't ever know. I don't think that kind of data will be something that is easy found but there can be no doubt there is / has been a profound knock on effect.

3) https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu (WHO estimates 290-650k per year die of Flu/Flu related per year. Covid is currently 1.3 million deaths worldwide.....I expect you would get a bit of blowback about death certs not being questioned etc....but it's fairly obvious now Covid has a much greater ruthless streak....in years to come, maybe these figures will align with vaccines on the way).

4) Death Certs that are registered as Covid related are not questioned. You could argue either way here. Why would someone do that however? If our General Practitioners are that lax regarding something as simple as general admin accuracy. We have bigger problems. There are things go round about how Care Homes get more money if the death is Covid related, to be honest I'm genuinely not sure, it would make sense with deep cleans etc but again, we have bigger problems if that is what people are at seeking more cash. Covid is kind of an umbrella term for a lot of things that tends to be the cause of death in the elderly. It's an argument you could have for awhile.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on November 23, 2020, 02:13:38 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 23, 2020, 02:09:39 PM
I would ask which hospitals for point 1. Most of them here at the minute seem pretty full and overall hospitals are at 100%+ occupancy.

I think that has been true when we are not in a "wave" but we currently are.

2 probably holds somewhere though how much who knows. 3 depends on 4 and 4 while there is some truth to some of it I think conspiracy theorists have latched onto it and I don't know how anyone would ever quantify it but I do believe it's skewed both ways and people have died at home with it too and not been recorded.

I know of a case where someone dropped dead at home from an apparent heart attack and the remains couldn't be released until a covid test was done.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 23, 2020, 02:15:41 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
I have a friend who firmly believes that the lockdowns are a complete over-reaction.
1) They claim that covid wards in some hospitals are practically empty.
2) They claim that lockdown and cancellation of hospital services has killed people for reasons other than covid.
3) They claim that flu kills just as many as covid
4) They claim that the death stats are severely skewed because many people have died in hospital from non-covid but get counted as covid

Can anyone help me counteract these arguments?

Even with ICU numbers dropping in the last few weeks, 6 out of the 8 hospitals are currently in 'surge' state. A couple more patients admitted to ICU and then the big decisions have to be made ie who lives and who dies.

And point number 2, the way hospitals are operating now ie services continuing along side covid fire fighting is very different to March / Paril when we were all facing into the unknown
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on November 23, 2020, 02:22:37 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
I have a friend who firmly believes that the lockdowns are a complete over-reaction.
1) They claim that covid wards in some hospitals are practically empty.
2) They claim that lockdown and cancellation of hospital services has killed people for reasons other than covid.
3) They claim that flu kills just as many as covid
4) They claim that the death stats are severely skewed because many people have died in hospital from non-covid but get counted as covid

Can anyone help me counteract these arguments?

It might seem an odd question but by any chance are you a chemical engineer by trade?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 23, 2020, 02:34:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2020, 10:33:29 AM
Oxford vaccine at least 70% effective and likely to be 90% effective in certain dosage combinations. The best plan seems to be a low dose followed by a second slightly higher dose.
This is a really good, as this is already being produced and the logistics are straightforward as it can be kept in the fridge.

But we've been told repeatedly on here that science has failed us!! All messing aside, it's great news so far
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 23, 2020, 02:44:01 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
I have a friend who firmly believes that the lockdowns are a complete over-reaction.
1) They claim that covid wards in some hospitals are practically empty.
2) They claim that lockdown and cancellation of hospital services has killed people for reasons other than covid.
3) They claim that flu kills just as many as covid
4) They claim that the death stats are severely skewed because many people have died in hospital from non-covid but get counted as covid

Can anyone help me counteract these arguments?

1-Not empty but not full
2-Absolutely true
3-Not sure
4-True
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 23, 2020, 03:07:10 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
2) They claim that lockdown and cancellation of hospital services has killed people for reasons other than covid.

Lockdown reduces pressure on the health services so likely improves life expectancy, so the opposite is true here.
Cancellation of other services has an adverse effect of course, but this is inevitable if you have more sick people, the only strategy to avoid this is to reduce the number of Covid patients. In general, you cannot conjure up more staff in order to greatly expand services.

Quote4) They claim that the death stats are severely skewed because many people have died in hospital from non-covid but get counted as covid

In the 6 counties, about 20,000 have had Covid in the last month or 1.1% of the population. Say that some people were not diagnosed so 2% of people had it. If Covid and death are not correlated then you would expect 2% of dead people to also have it. In October about 1500 people die in NI, so if Covid and death were not correlated than you would expect 60 of these to have Covid. But the Covid deaths are a couple of hundred higher than that. So somewhat true, but not very true.

In general, if someone is contending at this stage that Covid is just flu then I would remove them from my list of friends.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on November 23, 2020, 03:13:10 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 23, 2020, 02:44:01 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
I have a friend who firmly believes that the lockdowns are a complete over-reaction.
1) They claim that covid wards in some hospitals are practically empty.
2) They claim that lockdown and cancellation of hospital services has killed people for reasons other than covid.
3) They claim that flu kills just as many as covid
4) They claim that the death stats are severely skewed because many people have died in hospital from non-covid but get counted as covid

Can anyone help me counteract these arguments?

1-Not empty but not full
2-Absolutely true
3-Not sure
4-True

The Ulster is operating at 110% capacity allegedly, but that wouldn't be anything exceptional for it. Dire hospital for A&E.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on November 23, 2020, 03:16:57 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 23, 2020, 01:39:21 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 23, 2020, 12:52:59 PM
Rumours of schools closing early. So lockdown for 2 weeks and then when that's over, close the schools? So the children that are not in school can run about the shopping centres with their mates.

To placate the teachers and their unions I assume

Any of the teachers I know don't want the schools to close early. The extra week off will just be added in somewhere else in the year. Also, why have schools trained in online learning and then not let schools use this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on November 23, 2020, 03:23:01 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on November 23, 2020, 02:34:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2020, 10:33:29 AM
Oxford vaccine at least 70% effective and likely to be 90% effective in certain dosage combinations. The best plan seems to be a low dose followed by a second slightly higher dose.
This is a really good, as this is already being produced and the logistics are straightforward as it can be kept in the fridge.

But we've been told repeatedly on here that science has failed us!! All messing aside, it's great news so far

Having read the BBC article on how they've developed this so quickly I suddenly have some grounds for hope... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55041371 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55041371)

I know, I know... never trust the BBC
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Orior on November 23, 2020, 03:48:10 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 23, 2020, 02:22:37 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
I have a friend who firmly believes that the lockdowns are a complete over-reaction.
1) They claim that covid wards in some hospitals are practically empty.
2) They claim that lockdown and cancellation of hospital services has killed people for reasons other than covid.
3) They claim that flu kills just as many as covid
4) They claim that the death stats are severely skewed because many people have died in hospital from non-covid but get counted as covid

Can anyone help me counteract these arguments?

It might seem an odd question but by any chance are you a chemical engineer by trade?

Nope. I'm in IT, and my friend is a landlord.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on November 23, 2020, 04:04:44 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2020, 03:48:10 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 23, 2020, 02:22:37 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
I have a friend who firmly believes that the lockdowns are a complete over-reaction.
1) They claim that covid wards in some hospitals are practically empty.
2) They claim that lockdown and cancellation of hospital services has killed people for reasons other than covid.
3) They claim that flu kills just as many as covid
4) They claim that the death stats are severely skewed because many people have died in hospital from non-covid but get counted as covid

Can anyone help me counteract these arguments?

It might seem an odd question but by any chance are you a chemical engineer by trade?

Nope. I'm in IT, and my friend is a landlord.

Thanks for that.

(I assume you know why I had to ask?)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 23, 2020, 04:08:56 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on November 23, 2020, 03:23:01 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on November 23, 2020, 02:34:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2020, 10:33:29 AM
Oxford vaccine at least 70% effective and likely to be 90% effective in certain dosage combinations. The best plan seems to be a low dose followed by a second slightly higher dose.
This is a really good, as this is already being produced and the logistics are straightforward as it can be kept in the fridge.

But we've been told repeatedly on here that science has failed us!! All messing aside, it's great news so far

Having read the BBC article on how they've developed this so quickly I suddenly have some grounds for hope... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55041371 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55041371)

I know, I know... never trust the BBC

Following a good twitter thread today about this exact question. People saying they are not taking this vaccine that has been 'rushed' whereas previous ones take 10 years. A guy on claiming to be involved in that line of work countering that argument saying in this usual 10 years very little is done bar waiting for papers to be signed and fund raising to move onto next stage.   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 23, 2020, 04:32:23 PM
Quote from: five points on November 23, 2020, 02:10:42 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
I have a friend who firmly believes that the lockdowns are a complete over-reaction.
1) They claim that covid wards in some hospitals are practically empty.
2) They claim that lockdown and cancellation of hospital services has killed people for reasons other than covid.
3) They claim that flu kills just as many as covid
4) They claim that the death stats are severely skewed because many people have died in hospital from non-covid but get counted as covid

Can anyone help me counteract these arguments?

You'll struggle.
1. The Citywest and Nightingale temporary hospitals were white elephants.
2. Unprovable in the short term but the effects of 2020 undiagnosed cancers etc will probably shock us all in years to come.
3. In some recent years, excess deaths from flu have rivalled those from covid this year.
4. 100% correct.

Wrt point 1- I don't think them being white elephants takes away from capacity issues. To me I agree they are white elephants but not because they are not needed because they are in the wrong place and they are a bit more of a political stunt than anything. Extra beds could have been provided elsewhere. As someone said to me with the nightingale one - it was placed in the middle of the hospital with the most immuno deficient people out there. That wasn't an NHS decision - it was political.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Orior on November 23, 2020, 04:53:12 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 23, 2020, 04:04:44 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2020, 03:48:10 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 23, 2020, 02:22:37 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
I have a friend who firmly believes that the lockdowns are a complete over-reaction.
1) They claim that covid wards in some hospitals are practically empty.
2) They claim that lockdown and cancellation of hospital services has killed people for reasons other than covid.
3) They claim that flu kills just as many as covid
4) They claim that the death stats are severely skewed because many people have died in hospital from non-covid but get counted as covid

Can anyone help me counteract these arguments?

It might seem an odd question but by any chance are you a chemical engineer by trade?

Nope. I'm in IT, and my friend is a landlord.

Thanks for that.

(I assume you know why I had to ask?)

Not really. Did you think I work for pfizer?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 23, 2020, 05:19:10 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 23, 2020, 04:08:56 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on November 23, 2020, 03:23:01 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on November 23, 2020, 02:34:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2020, 10:33:29 AM
Oxford vaccine at least 70% effective and likely to be 90% effective in certain dosage combinations. The best plan seems to be a low dose followed by a second slightly higher dose.
This is a really good, as this is already being produced and the logistics are straightforward as it can be kept in the fridge.

But we've been told repeatedly on here that science has failed us!! All messing aside, it's great news so far

Having read the BBC article on how they've developed this so quickly I suddenly have some grounds for hope... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55041371 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55041371)

I know, I know... never trust the BBC

Following a good twitter thread today about this exact question. People saying they are not taking this vaccine that has been 'rushed' whereas previous ones take 10 years. A guy on claiming to be involved in that line of work countering that argument saying in this usual 10 years very little is done bar waiting for papers to be signed and fund raising to move onto next stage.

This vaccine has followed all the usual testing methods and timescales. It will actually be safer than previous vaccines because it has been tested on way more people than usual. This is because so much money has been thrown at it in an effort to get economies up and running and life back to normal. With previous vaccines years or months can go by between phases waiting for funding. This time some of the phases ran concurrently to speed up the process.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 23, 2020, 05:30:32 PM
Quote from: Orior on November 23, 2020, 01:59:16 PM
I have a friend who firmly believes that the lockdowns are a complete over-reaction.
1) They claim that covid wards in some hospitals are practically empty.
2) They claim that lockdown and cancellation of hospital services has killed people for reasons other than covid.
3) They claim that flu kills just as many as covid
4) They claim that the death stats are severely skewed because many people have died in hospital from non-covid but get counted as covid

Can anyone help me counteract these arguments?

I have a friend who works in a hospital and they are overrun and under huge pressure wrt covid. UK figures Death from flu 2017 - 458, 2018 - 1596, 2019 - 1213, 2020- 394 so far. Deaths from Covid 48168. Those figures show covid is way more lethal than any flu. The one about the deaths being skewed is absolute rubbish. If anything the numbers of cvid deaths are significantly higher. At least one in 10 people who are hospitalised have to return to hospital within a month. Many of those go on to die but none of those count in the statistics. Also a large number of people have passed away at home and haven't been tested, especially early on in the pandemic when doctors were advising people not to go to hospital unless they were really struggling to breathe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on November 23, 2020, 05:48:51 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 23, 2020, 05:30:32 PM

I have a friend who works in a hospital and they are overrun and under huge pressure wrt covid. UK figures Death from flu 2017 - 458, 2018 - 1596, 2019 - 1213, 2020- 394 so far. Deaths from Covid 48168. Those figures show covid is way more lethal than any flu. The one about the deaths being skewed is absolute rubbish. If anything the numbers of cvid deaths are significantly higher. At least one in 10 people who are hospitalised have to return to hospital within a month. Many of those go on to die but none of those count in the statistics. Also a large number of people have passed away at home and haven't been tested, especially early on in the pandemic when doctors were advising people not to go to hospital unless they were really struggling to breathe.

Those figures look way off.

According to the HSE "In Ireland, between 200 and 500 people, mainly older people, die from flu each winter." https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immunisation/pubinfo/adult/fluva/

I'd expect the British figures, pro rata with population, to be 10 times higher, 2,000 to 5,000 every winter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 23, 2020, 06:39:30 PM
Quote from: five points on November 23, 2020, 05:48:51 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 23, 2020, 05:30:32 PM

I have a friend who works in a hospital and they are overrun and under huge pressure wrt covid. UK figures Death from flu 2017 - 458, 2018 - 1596, 2019 - 1213, 2020- 394 so far. Deaths from Covid 48168. Those figures show covid is way more lethal than any flu. The one about the deaths being skewed is absolute rubbish. If anything the numbers of cvid deaths are significantly higher. At least one in 10 people who are hospitalised have to return to hospital within a month. Many of those go on to die but none of those count in the statistics. Also a large number of people have passed away at home and haven't been tested, especially early on in the pandemic when doctors were advising people not to go to hospital unless they were really struggling to breathe.

Those figures look way off.

According to the HSE "In Ireland, between 200 and 500 people, mainly older people, die from flu each winter." https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immunisation/pubinfo/adult/fluva/

I'd expect the British figures, pro rata with population, to be 10 times higher, 2,000 to 5,000 every winter.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmF6qdWXYAAoBNx?format=jpg&name=medium

The stats are from the ONS. Official figures but I should have clarified they're for the first 8 months of the year to allow for comparison.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 23, 2020, 07:31:53 PM
Quote from: five points on November 23, 2020, 05:48:51 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 23, 2020, 05:30:32 PM

I have a friend who works in a hospital and they are overrun and under huge pressure wrt covid. UK figures Death from flu 2017 - 458, 2018 - 1596, 2019 - 1213, 2020- 394 so far. Deaths from Covid 48168. Those figures show covid is way more lethal than any flu. The one about the deaths being skewed is absolute rubbish. If anything the numbers of cvid deaths are significantly higher. At least one in 10 people who are hospitalised have to return to hospital within a month. Many of those go on to die but none of those count in the statistics. Also a large number of people have passed away at home and haven't been tested, especially early on in the pandemic when doctors were advising people not to go to hospital unless they were really struggling to breathe.

However, Covid deaths where the person has another illness are routinely disregarded as "exaggerated", yet of course many people who die of flu also had existing illness.
Excess mortality is informative, things are not too bad in this island, but excess mortality in Wales in October was even higher than in April and this is also true of some European countries, notably Switzerland.

Those figures look way off.

According to the HSE "In Ireland, between 200 and 500 people, mainly older people, die from flu each winter." https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immunisation/pubinfo/adult/fluva/

I'd expect the British figures, pro rata with population, to be 10 times higher, 2,000 to 5,000 every winter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 10:29:36 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/)

"LEAKED photographs from inside Northern Ireland's Nightingale hospital have revealed some wards are being used as storage spaces - amid claims others remain unopened due to severe nursing shortages."

So when we are being told that our hospitals are being overrun what is really the issue is that the hospital staff are being overrun.

I agree that we absolutely needed a further lockdown due to the current trends, however my biggest issue is the lack of information from government - the 'we're all in this together' narrative got tired quite a while ago.

I would like to understand what is being done now to forward plan for future 'surges' because from what I can see there had been nothing done during the summer by the department.

- testing of staff on a regular basis
- short term contracts for staff from overseas
- streamline the existing pool to increase bed levels

these are things that I would hope are being looked at amongst others and I would like our journalists to be asking these questions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 24, 2020, 10:55:38 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 10:29:36 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/)

"LEAKED photographs from inside Northern Ireland's Nightingale hospital have revealed some wards are being used as storage spaces - amid claims others remain unopened due to severe nursing shortages."

So when we are being told that our hospitals are being overrun what is really the issue is that the hospital staff are being overrun.

I agree that we absolutely needed a further lockdown due to the current trends, however my biggest issue is the lack of information from government - the 'we're all in this together' narrative got tired quite a while ago.

I would like to understand what is being done now to forward plan for future 'surges' because from what I can see there had been nothing done during the summer by the department.

- testing of staff on a regular basis
- short term contracts for staff from overseas
- streamline the existing pool to increase bed levels

these are things that I would hope are being looked at amongst others and I would like our journalists to be asking these questions.

It is relatively easy to rent a big shed and put beds in it, but staff are not so easily found. The only benefit of another building might be the segregation of Covid patients from non Covid patients. Staff from overseas are not a great option as Covid is widespread and staff are needed everywhere else also. Streamlining the existing stock is mostly a case of cancelling less vital procedures and increasing waiting lists.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on November 24, 2020, 10:59:38 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 24, 2020, 10:55:38 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 10:29:36 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/)

"LEAKED photographs from inside Northern Ireland's Nightingale hospital have revealed some wards are being used as storage spaces - amid claims others remain unopened due to severe nursing shortages."

So when we are being told that our hospitals are being overrun what is really the issue is that the hospital staff are being overrun.

I agree that we absolutely needed a further lockdown due to the current trends, however my biggest issue is the lack of information from government - the 'we're all in this together' narrative got tired quite a while ago.

I would like to understand what is being done now to forward plan for future 'surges' because from what I can see there had been nothing done during the summer by the department.

- testing of staff on a regular basis
- short term contracts for staff from overseas
- streamline the existing pool to increase bed levels

these are things that I would hope are being looked at amongst others and I would like our journalists to be asking these questions.

It is relatively easy to rent a big shed and put beds in it, but staff are not so easily found. The only benefit of another building might be the segregation of Covid patients from non Covid patients. Staff from overseas are not a great option as Covid is widespread and staff are needed everywhere else also. Streamlining the existing stock is mostly a case of cancelling less vital procedures and increasing waiting lists.

Student nurses from here who complete their training are offered better paid jobs over in London, Australia and the likes than they are here at home.
Does that make sense to anyone?

Why go to the bother of financing their training and then not offer competitive salaries to ensure that they stay here. Am I missing something?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 24, 2020, 11:12:50 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 24, 2020, 10:59:38 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 24, 2020, 10:55:38 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 10:29:36 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/)

"LEAKED photographs from inside Northern Ireland's Nightingale hospital have revealed some wards are being used as storage spaces - amid claims others remain unopened due to severe nursing shortages."

So when we are being told that our hospitals are being overrun what is really the issue is that the hospital staff are being overrun.

I agree that we absolutely needed a further lockdown due to the current trends, however my biggest issue is the lack of information from government - the 'we're all in this together' narrative got tired quite a while ago.

I would like to understand what is being done now to forward plan for future 'surges' because from what I can see there had been nothing done during the summer by the department.

- testing of staff on a regular basis
- short term contracts for staff from overseas
- streamline the existing pool to increase bed levels

these are things that I would hope are being looked at amongst others and I would like our journalists to be asking these questions.

It is relatively easy to rent a big shed and put beds in it, but staff are not so easily found. The only benefit of another building might be the segregation of Covid patients from non Covid patients. Staff from overseas are not a great option as Covid is widespread and staff are needed everywhere else also. Streamlining the existing stock is mostly a case of cancelling less vital procedures and increasing waiting lists.

Student nurses from here who complete their training are offered better paid jobs over in London, Australia and the likes than they are here at home.
Does that make sense to anyone?

Why go to the bother of financing their training and then not offer competitive salaries to ensure that they stay here. Am I missing something?

Because nobody cared until about 8 months ago when they started to question their own mortality in the face of morning, noon and night Covid and why we never backed the NHS.

The NHS for years has been underfunded, cut upon and generally run on fumes. Then all of a sudden Covid came along, probably to be honest wasn't even all that bad...but completely showed it up for what had happened under many, many previous governments. It wasn't Boris' fault, he just happened to be the unlucky one really. Those cuts were also reflected in the pay schemes.

When they talk of hospitals being overrun, sure, Covid is a problem, no doubt but hospitals here and all over the UK were overrun most winters anyway because they were run on a shoe string. Look, nobody could have predicted Covid - but this will happen again, there is no doubt whatsoever. We, hopefully will be better prepared - the world was caught with the pants down and then you just look at the new defence package the UK is splashing out on, there is plenty of money......just none of it was deemed priority at any stage to the health services.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 11:33:08 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 24, 2020, 10:55:38 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 10:29:36 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/)

"LEAKED photographs from inside Northern Ireland's Nightingale hospital have revealed some wards are being used as storage spaces - amid claims others remain unopened due to severe nursing shortages."

So when we are being told that our hospitals are being overrun what is really the issue is that the hospital staff are being overrun.

I agree that we absolutely needed a further lockdown due to the current trends, however my biggest issue is the lack of information from government - the 'we're all in this together' narrative got tired quite a while ago.

I would like to understand what is being done now to forward plan for future 'surges' because from what I can see there had been nothing done during the summer by the department.

- testing of staff on a regular basis
- short term contracts for staff from overseas
- streamline the existing pool to increase bed levels

these are things that I would hope are being looked at amongst others and I would like our journalists to be asking these questions.

It is relatively easy to rent a big shed and put beds in it, but staff are not so easily found. The only benefit of another building might be the segregation of Covid patients from non Covid patients. Staff from overseas are not a great option as Covid is widespread and staff are needed everywhere else also. Streamlining the existing stock is mostly a case of cancelling less vital procedures and increasing waiting lists.

I realise that - so that then begs the question if we were unable to staff it why 'build' it.

If it is due to staff self isolating then can better testing assist with this - i.e. not have staff self isolating as they have been deemed a close contact but instead test.

We appear to be an attractive option for overseas staff previously in the nursing profession, are those countries now retaining those staff?

What is being done to repatriate staff as highlighted by JC?

Are there tasks carried out by nurses currently that could be carried out by auxiliary staff in the short term to reduced the ratio of nurses per ward - can doctors/consultants be tasked with nursing roles in certain circumstances due to staff levels?

IMHO sweet fuk all has been done for the past 9 months except fire fighting, we had a lull in the Summer months where we should have been looking at contingency planning for staff levels, we didn't. We are where we are but my worry is that if we can reduce the levels to a more palatable level again that we will spend that period back slapping and eating out to help out while we await a further surge ad nauseum until a vaccine is rolled out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2020, 11:51:16 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 11:33:08 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 24, 2020, 10:55:38 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 10:29:36 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/)

"LEAKED photographs from inside Northern Ireland's Nightingale hospital have revealed some wards are being used as storage spaces - amid claims others remain unopened due to severe nursing shortages."

So when we are being told that our hospitals are being overrun what is really the issue is that the hospital staff are being overrun.

I agree that we absolutely needed a further lockdown due to the current trends, however my biggest issue is the lack of information from government - the 'we're all in this together' narrative got tired quite a while ago.

I would like to understand what is being done now to forward plan for future 'surges' because from what I can see there had been nothing done during the summer by the department.

- testing of staff on a regular basis
- short term contracts for staff from overseas
- streamline the existing pool to increase bed levels

these are things that I would hope are being looked at amongst others and I would like our journalists to be asking these questions.

It is relatively easy to rent a big shed and put beds in it, but staff are not so easily found. The only benefit of another building might be the segregation of Covid patients from non Covid patients. Staff from overseas are not a great option as Covid is widespread and staff are needed everywhere else also. Streamlining the existing stock is mostly a case of cancelling less vital procedures and increasing waiting lists.

I realise that - so that then begs the question if we were unable to staff it why 'build' it.

If it is due to staff self isolating then can better testing assist with this - i.e. not have staff self isolating as they have been deemed a close contact but instead test.

We appear to be an attractive option for overseas staff previously in the nursing profession, are those countries now retaining those staff?

What is being done to repatriate staff as highlighted by JC?

Are there tasks carried out by nurses currently that could be carried out by auxiliary staff in the short term to reduced the ratio of nurses per ward - can doctors/consultants be tasked with nursing roles in certain circumstances due to staff levels?

IMHO sweet fuk all has been done for the past 9 months except fire fighting, we had a lull in the Summer months where we should have been looking at contingency planning for staff levels, we didn't. We are where we are but my worry is that if we can reduce the levels to a more palatable level again that we will spend that period back slapping and eating out to help out while we await a further surge ad nauseum until a vaccine is rolled out.

Were they built for Covid or was it the case that they they were built with the building with a view to one day being able to staff it and use it..

the saying, better looking at it than looking for it, springs to mind.. Capacity isn't all about the space as its been mentioned. though that be a cracking headline for Nolan
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 12:11:50 PM
Honestly the nightingale hospitals imo were done for political reasons. Look at what we're doing stunt. Logistically from what I have been led to believe they have been a nightmare. Basically it's a lottery with what staff and what staff skill set is there so they just expect an experienced nurse or two to coordinate workers from other areas.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on November 24, 2020, 12:22:25 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 24, 2020, 11:12:50 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 24, 2020, 10:59:38 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 24, 2020, 10:55:38 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 10:29:36 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/)

"LEAKED photographs from inside Northern Ireland's Nightingale hospital have revealed some wards are being used as storage spaces - amid claims others remain unopened due to severe nursing shortages."

So when we are being told that our hospitals are being overrun what is really the issue is that the hospital staff are being overrun.

I agree that we absolutely needed a further lockdown due to the current trends, however my biggest issue is the lack of information from government - the 'we're all in this together' narrative got tired quite a while ago.

I would like to understand what is being done now to forward plan for future 'surges' because from what I can see there had been nothing done during the summer by the department.

- testing of staff on a regular basis
- short term contracts for staff from overseas
- streamline the existing pool to increase bed levels

these are things that I would hope are being looked at amongst others and I would like our journalists to be asking these questions.

It is relatively easy to rent a big shed and put beds in it, but staff are not so easily found. The only benefit of another building might be the segregation of Covid patients from non Covid patients. Staff from overseas are not a great option as Covid is widespread and staff are needed everywhere else also. Streamlining the existing stock is mostly a case of cancelling less vital procedures and increasing waiting lists.

Student nurses from here who complete their training are offered better paid jobs over in London, Australia and the likes than they are here at home.
Does that make sense to anyone?

Why go to the bother of financing their training and then not offer competitive salaries to ensure that they stay here. Am I missing something?

Because nobody cared until about 8 months ago when they started to question their own mortality in the face of morning, noon and night Covid and why we never backed the NHS.

The NHS for years has been underfunded, cut upon and generally run on fumes. Then all of a sudden Covid came along, probably to be honest wasn't even all that bad...but completely showed it up for what had happened under many, many previous governments. It wasn't Boris' fault, he just happened to be the unlucky one really. Those cuts were also reflected in the pay schemes.

When they talk of hospitals being overrun, sure, Covid is a problem, no doubt but hospitals here and all over the UK were overrun most winters anyway because they were run on a shoe string. Look, nobody could have predicted Covid - but this will happen again, there is no doubt whatsoever. We, hopefully will be better prepared - the world was caught with the pants down and then you just look at the new defence package the UK is splashing out on, there is plenty of money......just none of it was deemed priority at any stage to the health services.

What do you mean it wasn't Boris' fault? He was a member of the Tory party during their austerity campaign and cut the living daylights out of the NHS budget as well as social services and all that.

It's very much his fault and the attempts of the current Tory Gov to disassociate itself from their previous governments should not go unchallenged.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 24, 2020, 12:25:34 PM
Temporary hospitals can work if there is one region much worse than everywhere else. If things are really bad in Derry but not so much in Armagh and Down then perhaps you could redirect some qualified staff towards Derry.
In the US they are now in a bad way for staff, although they have enough ventilators etc.

And while NHS cuts contributed to this, if Covid grows every week than it will overwhelm even a good system, as they are now discovering in Switzerland and Germany.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 24, 2020, 01:07:15 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 11:33:08 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 24, 2020, 10:55:38 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 10:29:36 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/)

"LEAKED photographs from inside Northern Ireland's Nightingale hospital have revealed some wards are being used as storage spaces - amid claims others remain unopened due to severe nursing shortages."

So when we are being told that our hospitals are being overrun what is really the issue is that the hospital staff are being overrun.

I agree that we absolutely needed a further lockdown due to the current trends, however my biggest issue is the lack of information from government - the 'we're all in this together' narrative got tired quite a while ago.

I would like to understand what is being done now to forward plan for future 'surges' because from what I can see there had been nothing done during the summer by the department.

- testing of staff on a regular basis
- short term contracts for staff from overseas
- streamline the existing pool to increase bed levels

these are things that I would hope are being looked at amongst others and I would like our journalists to be asking these questions.

It is relatively easy to rent a big shed and put beds in it, but staff are not so easily found. The only benefit of another building might be the segregation of Covid patients from non Covid patients. Staff from overseas are not a great option as Covid is widespread and staff are needed everywhere else also. Streamlining the existing stock is mostly a case of cancelling less vital procedures and increasing waiting lists.

I realise that - so that then begs the question if we were unable to staff it why 'build' it.

If it is due to staff self isolating then can better testing assist with this - i.e. not have staff self isolating as they have been deemed a close contact but instead test.

We appear to be an attractive option for overseas staff previously in the nursing profession, are those countries now retaining those staff?

What is being done to repatriate staff as highlighted by JC?

Are there tasks carried out by nurses currently that could be carried out by auxiliary staff in the short term to reduced the ratio of nurses per ward - can doctors/consultants be tasked with nursing roles in certain circumstances due to staff levels?

IMHO sweet fuk all has been done for the past 9 months except fire fighting, we had a lull in the Summer months where we should have been looking at contingency planning for staff levels, we didn't. We are where we are but my worry is that if we can reduce the levels to a more palatable level again that we will spend that period back slapping and eating out to help out while we await a further surge ad nauseum until a vaccine is rolled out.

Your opinion based on what? Tell me what hasn't been done re ICU surge beds, staff levels, running Covid alongside other acute ailments for example since, say May / June (the last 6 months) when we had a better handle on this pandemic? What would you like to have seen done bearing in mind the state of the NHS (pre pandemic)?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 24, 2020, 01:37:40 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 24, 2020, 12:22:25 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 24, 2020, 11:12:50 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 24, 2020, 10:59:38 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 24, 2020, 10:55:38 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 10:29:36 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/ (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/24/news/leaked-photographs-expose-impact-of-nursing-shortages-on-nightingale--2139404/)

"LEAKED photographs from inside Northern Ireland's Nightingale hospital have revealed some wards are being used as storage spaces - amid claims others remain unopened due to severe nursing shortages."

So when we are being told that our hospitals are being overrun what is really the issue is that the hospital staff are being overrun.

I agree that we absolutely needed a further lockdown due to the current trends, however my biggest issue is the lack of information from government - the 'we're all in this together' narrative got tired quite a while ago.

I would like to understand what is being done now to forward plan for future 'surges' because from what I can see there had been nothing done during the summer by the department.

- testing of staff on a regular basis
- short term contracts for staff from overseas
- streamline the existing pool to increase bed levels

these are things that I would hope are being looked at amongst others and I would like our journalists to be asking these questions.

It is relatively easy to rent a big shed and put beds in it, but staff are not so easily found. The only benefit of another building might be the segregation of Covid patients from non Covid patients. Staff from overseas are not a great option as Covid is widespread and staff are needed everywhere else also. Streamlining the existing stock is mostly a case of cancelling less vital procedures and increasing waiting lists.

Student nurses from here who complete their training are offered better paid jobs over in London, Australia and the likes than they are here at home.
Does that make sense to anyone?

Why go to the bother of financing their training and then not offer competitive salaries to ensure that they stay here. Am I missing something?

Because nobody cared until about 8 months ago when they started to question their own mortality in the face of morning, noon and night Covid and why we never backed the NHS.

The NHS for years has been underfunded, cut upon and generally run on fumes. Then all of a sudden Covid came along, probably to be honest wasn't even all that bad...but completely showed it up for what had happened under many, many previous governments. It wasn't Boris' fault, he just happened to be the unlucky one really. Those cuts were also reflected in the pay schemes.

When they talk of hospitals being overrun, sure, Covid is a problem, no doubt but hospitals here and all over the UK were overrun most winters anyway because they were run on a shoe string. Look, nobody could have predicted Covid - but this will happen again, there is no doubt whatsoever. We, hopefully will be better prepared - the world was caught with the pants down and then you just look at the new defence package the UK is splashing out on, there is plenty of money......just none of it was deemed priority at any stage to the health services.

What do you mean it wasn't Boris' fault? He was a member of the Tory party during their austerity campaign and cut the living daylights out of the NHS budget as well as social services and all that.

It's very much his fault and the attempts of the current Tory Gov to disassociate itself from their previous governments should not go unchallenged.

He is in office when it happened, so yes of course there is blame - certainly in his handling. But I would say the actual blame stretches way back to even as far as Thatcher. The NHS has not been fit for purpose in decades. It's always been run on 'the cheap'. I'm not particularly fond of Boris Johnson but he just happened to be the unlucky PM when the music stopped so to speak.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 01:41:39 PM
I would never call him unlucky. He's stealing a living and coining it in from private exploits in the background. He deserves any flak that comes his way and doesn't get remotely near enough. He's the worst British PM ever.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 01:53:01 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on November 24, 2020, 01:07:15 PM
Your opinion based on what? Tell me what hasn't been done re ICU surge beds, staff levels, running Covid alongside other acute ailments for example since, say May / June (the last 6 months) when we had a better handle on this pandemic? What would you like to have seen done bearing in mind the state of the NHS (pre pandemic)?

My opinion based on the fact that we are in the same position we were in in March. That's it, no peer reviewed independent study - and very possibly absolute BS, however I am not able to access information outlining what has been done in the interim period to reduce the risk.

The previous restrictions (October) had reduced the daily numbers by circa 50% however this was still insufficient for our health service not to be overrun. We have the infrastructure to deal with those levels but it appears that the issue is around staffing.

I would just be interested in understanding what if anything has been done to address those issues, and have outlined my own thoughts on possibilities - which may again be entirely unrealistic;

- testing staff so that excess numbers of staff aren't off self isolating when they do not have the virus
- Overseas recruitment/repatriation
- Using other health service staff to carry out non-clinical tasks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 02:07:16 PM
79 positive up north today.  That is some drop although there is some note on the stats about pillar 2 tests and I don't pretend to understand what that is so maybe more to come. However this last 2 days there has been a big drop of which is positive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on November 24, 2020, 02:23:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 02:07:16 PM
79 positive up north today.  That is some drop although there is some note on the stats about pillar 2 tests and I don't pretend to understand what that is so maybe more to come. However this last 2 days there has been a big drop of which is positive.

Likely to be a reporting delay. And numbers are always much lower on Mondays. Wouldn't read too much into these numbers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 02:31:53 PM
Even if they go up by 100% there'll still incredibly low. Definitely things are trending in the right direction. Until the spread from people rushing round this week because everything is getting locked down again!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 24, 2020, 02:53:42 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 01:53:01 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on November 24, 2020, 01:07:15 PM
Your opinion based on what? Tell me what hasn't been done re ICU surge beds, staff levels, running Covid alongside other acute ailments for example since, say May / June (the last 6 months) when we had a better handle on this pandemic? What would you like to have seen done bearing in mind the state of the NHS (pre pandemic)?

My opinion based on the fact that we are in the same position we were in in March. That's it, no peer reviewed independent study - and very possibly absolute BS, however I am not able to access information outlining what has been done in the interim period to reduce the risk.

The previous restrictions (October) had reduced the daily numbers by circa 50% however this was still insufficient for our health service not to be overrun. We have the infrastructure to deal with those levels but it appears that the issue is around staffing.

I would just be interested in understanding what if anything has been done to address those issues, and have outlined my own thoughts on possibilities - which may again be entirely unrealistic;

- testing staff so that excess numbers of staff aren't off self isolating when they do not have the virus
- Overseas recruitment/repatriation
- Using other health service staff to carry out non-clinical tasks

But we're not.

Surge beds are in place so no one is turned away (hopefully)

Other acute procedures are now being carried out alongside Covid treatment

Re staff, the kitchen sink has been thrown at this shortage. The NHS was short staffed before Covid, with staff isolating etc

You're opinion is not based on fact
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 03:22:32 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on November 24, 2020, 02:53:42 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on November 24, 2020, 01:53:01 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on November 24, 2020, 01:07:15 PM
Your opinion based on what? Tell me what hasn't been done re ICU surge beds, staff levels, running Covid alongside other acute ailments for example since, say May / June (the last 6 months) when we had a better handle on this pandemic? What would you like to have seen done bearing in mind the state of the NHS (pre pandemic)?

My opinion based on the fact that we are in the same position we were in in March. That's it, no peer reviewed independent study - and very possibly absolute BS, however I am not able to access information outlining what has been done in the interim period to reduce the risk.

The previous restrictions (October) had reduced the daily numbers by circa 50% however this was still insufficient for our health service not to be overrun. We have the infrastructure to deal with those levels but it appears that the issue is around staffing.

I would just be interested in understanding what if anything has been done to address those issues, and have outlined my own thoughts on possibilities - which may again be entirely unrealistic;

- testing staff so that excess numbers of staff aren't off self isolating when they do not have the virus
- Overseas recruitment/repatriation
- Using other health service staff to carry out non-clinical tasks

But we're not.

Surge beds are in place so no one is turned away (hopefully)

Other acute procedures are now being carried out alongside Covid treatment

Re staff, the kitchen sink has been thrown at this shortage. The NHS was short staffed before Covid, with staff isolating etc

You're opinion is not based on fact

So why then 10 days ago is the health minister saying "no hospital will turn away a Covid-19 patient but people with other serious illness may have to wait for treatment." (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54934000 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54934000))

What is the kitchen sink? What has been done and what results have been achieved?

What you are telling me does not appear to align with the message that we had to enter a further lockdown this weekend to protect our health service. Numbers were falling significantly but we are told it wasn't enough to stop our hospitals being overrun - now if the equipment is there as it appears to be it must be a staffing issue.

I will freely admit I do not have all the facts however I would also assert that all the facts are not available to the public.

To be clear I do not disagree with the revised regulations which come in on Friday, in the most part but I would be extremely interested in the medium/long term plan and whether it is just simply to wait on the vaccine roll out - if so that's particularity tough on those people identified in the article above and business owners who still await assistance from the same government.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 24, 2020, 04:19:06 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on November 24, 2020, 02:23:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 02:07:16 PM
79 positive up north today.  That is some drop although there is some note on the stats about pillar 2 tests and I don't pretend to understand what that is so maybe more to come. However this last 2 days there has been a big drop of which is positive.

Likely to be a reporting delay. And numbers are always much lower on Mondays. Wouldn't read too much into these numbers.

The results from pillar 2 usually make up the bulk of positive test results and are usually 3 or 4 times that of pillar 1 results. Today they are 1/3 that of pillar 1, obviously a reporting delay somewhere. Hopefully the recent slight downward trend continues.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on November 24, 2020, 04:27:04 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 02:07:16 PM
79 positive up north today.  That is some drop although there is some note on the stats about pillar 2 tests and I don't pretend to understand what that is so maybe more to come. However this last 2 days there has been a big drop of which is positive.

Low testing number in the 6 counties i believe.  The 26 had 190 positive swabs from over 10,000 tests in the last 24 hours that's the lowest since early September and so long as no backlog cases added in should get under 200 cases reported this evening which hasn't happened since September either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2020, 06:17:16 PM
Wonder why there has been a drop in testing? Is it because people not getting symptoms, so not testing as many, or people not testing because it would affect their income, should they be positive? 

Or, hopefully we have turned a corner? Well at least for a week, but after the shopping spree has Infected a few! 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 06:56:30 PM
I got a test booked really quickly for last Wednesday and the place was dead. The rest of had to test on Friday and the place was bunged. (Carryduff). Dunno what that says mind you lol.

Less than 2k tests seems low.

What a doctor said to me was that it wasn't really important what numbers were but hospital turnover and they are never really dropping in numbers - it's constant. Hopefully in weeks to come that will change.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 24, 2020, 07:17:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2020, 06:17:16 PM
Wonder why there has been a drop in testing? Is it because people not getting symptoms, so not testing as many, or people not testing because it would affect their income, should they be positive? 

Or, hopefully we have turned a corner? Well at least for a week, but after the shopping spree has Infected a few!

Numbers dropped dramatically up our way
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on November 24, 2020, 07:19:14 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 06:56:30 PM
I got a test booked really quickly for last Wednesday and the place was dead. The rest of had to test on Friday and the place was bunged. (Carryduff). Dunno what that says mind you lol.

Less than 2k tests seems low.

What a doctor said to me was that it wasn't really important what numbers were but hospital turnover and they are never really dropping in numbers - it's constant. Hopefully in weeks to come that will change.

Wonder why they don't report daily hospital admissions as that would mean more than how many people have tested positive.

Maybe they do but it's never the headline figure you'd hear on the news.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 24, 2020, 07:24:38 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 24, 2020, 07:19:14 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 06:56:30 PM
I got a test booked really quickly for last Wednesday and the place was dead. The rest of had to test on Friday and the place was bunged. (Carryduff). Dunno what that says mind you lol.

Less than 2k tests seems low.

What a doctor said to me was that it wasn't really important what numbers were but hospital turnover and they are never really dropping in numbers - it's constant. Hopefully in weeks to come that will change.

Wonder why they don't report daily hospital admissions as that would mean more than how many people have tested positive.

Maybe they do but it's never the headline figure you'd hear on the news.

Might be in dashboard but was never reported on news, usually new cases and deaths
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 07:41:48 PM
They really need to look at how they are reporting it in the media on the whole. Hospital occupancy etc is IMO more important than daily cases. I am not sure the motive in how they report it and whether or not it is to cause people to take it seriously or whether it's alarmist for headlines or what it is but I wouldn't be sure it's been done too well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on November 24, 2020, 07:48:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 24, 2020, 06:17:16 PM
Wonder why there has been a drop in testing? Is it because people not getting symptoms, so not testing as many, or people not testing because it would affect their income, should they be positive? 

Or, hopefully we have turned a corner? Well at least for a week, but after the shopping spree has Infected a few!

People are too busy doing their Christmas shopping to go get tested sure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 09:10:15 PM
Testing can be done next week when everything has been shut ;D No time to get sick this week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 24, 2020, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 09:10:15 PM
Testing can be done next week when everything has been shut ;D No time to get sick this week.

There is a slight degree of truth in this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 24, 2020, 09:20:18 PM
Quote from: Pub Bore on November 23, 2020, 01:39:55 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 23, 2020, 11:27:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 23, 2020, 11:13:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 23, 2020, 11:12:18 AM
Scenes in Belfast this weekend getting a bit of airtime. Can only imagine what it will be like mid December when everything re opens....

Im sort of lost on what people want at this stage?

Open, shut, open and shut or what?

They want Tazering.

followed by a good boot up the hole.

From a man with a leg 2 metres long, obviously.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 09:21:02 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 24, 2020, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 09:10:15 PM
Testing can be done next week when everything has been shut ;D No time to get sick this week.

There is a slight degree of truth in this.

Sadly I would say you are right.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 25, 2020, 01:05:41 AM
Vincent Kearney, the RTÉ 6 county correspondent reports the hospital numbers each day on Twitter

Wednesday 445 confirmed Coronavirus patients in hospital, with 37 in ICU
Tuesday 438 confirmed Coronavirus patients in hospital, with 37 in ICU,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on November 25, 2020, 08:56:23 AM
I had been tracking that number when things were beginning to get worse, around September time but noticed that while yesterdays headline figure was 445 by today that same inpatients number for yesterdays date could have increased - a reporting lag issue, therefore you need to be looking at it a number of days behind.

For example, Monday's dashboard had an inpatient number of 438 but when you look at yesterday's dashboard it shows that Monday actually had 482 inpatients.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 25, 2020, 10:28:46 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 09:21:02 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 24, 2020, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 24, 2020, 09:10:15 PM
Testing can be done next week when everything has been shut ;D No time to get sick this week.

There is a slight degree of truth in this.

Sadly I would say you are right.

At first people were quite paranoid, afraid of passing it on etc, now there is a sense of, we aren't getting tested to be punished.

You can tell in daily conversations that is the new thinking over the past few weeks from the people I've been in touch with via work etc.

It's a strange, but ultimately probably true outcome. Don't get tested....No new (asymptomatic) cases can be registered....ow numbers, open up. People feel they are being punished now, that is the road to ruin for the goodwill. The latest lockdown measures have really annoyed 99% of my daily interaction.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 25, 2020, 10:44:10 AM
How they have done the latest lockdowns must be really frustrating though for a business. If people knew there was an end goal or some kind of plan to lock down, assess numbers and then reevaluate etc that would help. It just feels knee jerk all the time. The thing that always gets me too is that they say it takes 2 weeks to establish if a lockdown worked so they announce lockdown for 2 weeks - so then how can any business plan for anything if then they will just do another knee jerk decision at the end of it. If they are to lockdown they need 4 weeks and assess in 3 weeks to communicate what happens after week 4 or something like that. That would at least sound like a strategy which is something that is very lacking at present. Yes it can't be easy but it could be done so so much better.

While people would be better not being out in their droves people en masse will have behaviours like that. It is up to government to not present the opportunity. If in 2-3 weeks there's a spike they have a lot to answer for.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on November 25, 2020, 12:52:57 PM
I know it's incredibly complex for governments but I'm sorry there is only so much they can do, if people are gonna be c***ts and go about in their droves, boozing, mixing, not wearing a mask etc what can you do ? The risks are well known at this stage
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 25, 2020, 01:01:12 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 25, 2020, 12:52:57 PM
I know it's incredibly complex for governments but I'm sorry there is only so much they can do, if people are gonna be c***ts and go about in their droves, boozing, mixing, not wearing a mask etc what can you do ? The risks are well known at this stage

One word - Tazer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NAG1 on November 25, 2020, 01:08:21 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 25, 2020, 01:01:12 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 25, 2020, 12:52:57 PM
I know it's incredibly complex for governments but I'm sorry there is only so much they can do, if people are gonna be c***ts and go about in their droves, boozing, mixing, not wearing a mask etc what can you do ? The risks are well known at this stage

One word - Tazer.

I would have went for something stronger I think in the Holylands the other night. How many warnings do these individuals need?

Get on like that and then all head home and spread it around their families just in time for Christmas.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 25, 2020, 02:21:13 PM
Back to normal up here today. 9k+ tests and 533 cases. Not good.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: pbat on November 25, 2020, 02:28:42 PM
Was listening to a discussion on this on the radio few weeks ago. Caller was on about fines for Covid breaches but more so for anti-social issues in general. He made the point that a lot of fines are meaningless and in some areas just ignored, do a couple of days in the clink or its an arrangement to deduct a few pound from benefits and what the hell. He proposed for minor infringements your passport is suspended for 6 months, it increases by offence till eventual removal.

Thought there was some merit to it for the scumbags who are in court every week for various minor offences but I can only imagine how the civil liberties groups would react. Though losing their two weeks in Tenerife maybe a lot more of a deterrent that 100 quid fine or a suspended sentence to some of them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on November 27, 2020, 07:03:30 AM
Interesting week ahead in the north
If numbers go up the government have made a balls up regarding letting the country go mad for a week
If numbers don't go up the close contact services and retail don't add to the numbers
Interesting week ahead
Keep an eye on the cases
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 27, 2020, 07:36:20 AM
Surely it will be in 2 or 3 weeks whether these figures are known!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 27, 2020, 09:38:23 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on November 25, 2020, 01:08:21 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 25, 2020, 01:01:12 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 25, 2020, 12:52:57 PM
I know it's incredibly complex for governments but I'm sorry there is only so much they can do, if people are gonna be c***ts and go about in their droves, boozing, mixing, not wearing a mask etc what can you do ? The risks are well known at this stage

One word - Tazer.

I would have went for something stronger I think in the Holylands the other night. How many warnings do these individuals need?

Get on like that and then all head home and spread it around their families just in time for Christmas.

In no way sticking up for the students here, but people aren't stupid either. The numbers that are doing the rounds in schools are massive. Over 1k cases now and this number is largely supressed (unsurprisingly).

It's allowed to spread freely from schools. Seriously, what are we doing? Are other countries ignoring school transmission in their figures and we in the North are idiots? Our numbers here do not make sense whatsoever. Are we accepting the cost of free transmission in order to keep schools open? If we can close down basically everything today for the sake of the country, could we not have pulled the plug on the schools for that two weeks too?

There is a reason the public health site is so difficult to navigate with regards to this area I feel.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54920050
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54656456
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54593770
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 27, 2020, 09:48:38 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 27, 2020, 09:38:23 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on November 25, 2020, 01:08:21 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 25, 2020, 01:01:12 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 25, 2020, 12:52:57 PM
I know it's incredibly complex for governments but I'm sorry there is only so much they can do, if people are gonna be c***ts and go about in their droves, boozing, mixing, not wearing a mask etc what can you do ? The risks are well known at this stage

One word - Tazer.

I would have went for something stronger I think in the Holylands the other night. How many warnings do these individuals need?

Get on like that and then all head home and spread it around their families just in time for Christmas.

In no way sticking up for the students here, but people aren't stupid either. The numbers that are doing the rounds in schools are massive. Over 1k cases now and this number is largely supressed (unsurprisingly).

It's allowed to spread freely from schools. Seriously, what are we doing? Are other countries ignoring school transmission in their figures and we in the North are idiots? Our numbers here do not make sense whatsoever. Are we accepting the cost of free transmission in order to keep schools open? If we can close down basically everything today for the sake of the country, could we not have pulled the plug on the schools for that two weeks too?

There is a reason the public health site is so difficult to navigate with regards to this area I feel.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54920050
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54656456
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54593770

Theres 350k pupils in NI.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 27, 2020, 09:52:37 AM
Yes, are we happy to accept that 350k for the sake of these two weeks are still allowed to betray the concept of the lockdown?

It will basically undermine the whole principal surely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 27, 2020, 10:19:44 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 27, 2020, 09:52:37 AM
Yes, are we happy to accept that 350k for the sake of these two weeks are still allowed to betray the concept of the lockdown?

It will basically undermine the whole principal surely.

Dunne's is staying open beacause it sells cups & cushions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on November 27, 2020, 10:52:52 AM
Not really addressing the point though.

350k of about 1.8 million people is about a 5th of the total population.

This is actually ridiculous.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 27, 2020, 10:56:00 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 27, 2020, 09:52:37 AM
Yes, are we happy to accept that 350k for the sake of these two weeks are still allowed to betray the concept of the lockdown?

It will basically undermine the whole principal surely.

Anything remaining open reduces the effectiveness of the lockdown. However, other places, including the 26 counties have signficantly reduced their rates while keeping schools open.

I'd say schools vary greatly in their efforts, if every school was as good as the best school in its hygiene then things might do rightly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on November 27, 2020, 01:05:35 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 27, 2020, 09:38:23 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on November 25, 2020, 01:08:21 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 25, 2020, 01:01:12 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 25, 2020, 12:52:57 PM
I know it's incredibly complex for governments but I'm sorry there is only so much they can do, if people are gonna be c***ts and go about in their droves, boozing, mixing, not wearing a mask etc what can you do ? The risks are well known at this stage

One word - Tazer.

I would have went for something stronger I think in the Holylands the other night. How many warnings do these individuals need?

Get on like that and then all head home and spread it around their families just in time for Christmas.

In no way sticking up for the students here, but people aren't stupid either. The numbers that are doing the rounds in schools are massive. Over 1k cases now and this number is largely supressed (unsurprisingly).

It's allowed to spread freely from schools. Seriously, what are we doing? Are other countries ignoring school transmission in their figures and we in the North are idiots? Our numbers here do not make sense whatsoever. Are we accepting the cost of free transmission in order to keep schools open? If we can close down basically everything today for the sake of the country, could we not have pulled the plug on the schools for that two weeks too?

There is a reason the public health site is so difficult to navigate with regards to this area I feel.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54920050
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54656456
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-54593770

The problem in the schools is the number of pupils have to self isolate
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on November 27, 2020, 01:09:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 27, 2020, 10:56:00 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 27, 2020, 09:52:37 AM
Yes, are we happy to accept that 350k for the sake of these two weeks are still allowed to betray the concept of the lockdown?

It will basically undermine the whole principal surely.

Anything remaining open reduces the effectiveness of the lockdown. However, other places, including the 26 counties have signficantly reduced their rates while keeping schools open.

I'd say schools vary greatly in their efforts, if every school was as good as the best school in its hygiene then things might do rightly.

Sure blame the schools, what about transport too and from, I have seen buses where even the driver isn't wearing a mask.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on November 27, 2020, 02:58:34 PM
So for the 26 is looks like:

Tuesday 1 December - everything open apart from pubs and restaurants
Monday 7 December - restaurants and gastropubs allowed open
Household gatherings will only be permitted from 18 December to 3 January but certain restrictions (i.e. there'll be a max number)

So it looks like "wet" pubs won't be allowed open at all!
And the term "gastropubs" has only come into this conversation in recent days. I haven't seen it confirmed but it appears "gastropub" may mean a chef has to be on site, so no bringing grub in from the chipper next door, etc.

This seems really harsh on publicans.

I can understand the need for precaution, especially when it comes to alcohol, but I'd also let's treat everyone like adults and ask them to be responsible.

I haven't seen any talk of an alcohol curfew in Ireland, but I think early closing would help reduce infractions. I would be strongly in favour of opening pubs in a controlled environment, table service only, max of 6 (or even 4) per table, masks to be worn when you get up from the table, distances between tables, sanitisers available, last orders 10pm.

I think the argument that people will go to house parties when they leave the pub is very weak. The vast majority of people have no interest in house parties in the current climate, and those that do will be more likely to attend parties if the pubs are closed. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on November 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
I agree with all those points Hound. It's as if the government wants rid of non-food pubs, permanently.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 27, 2020, 03:29:22 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 27, 2020, 02:58:34 PM
So it looks like "wet" pubs won't be allowed open at all!
And the term "gastropubs" has only come into this conversation in recent days. I haven't seen it confirmed but it appears "gastropub" may mean a chef has to be on site, so no bringing grub in from the chipper next door, etc.

This seems really harsh on publicans.

I can understand the need for precaution, especially when it comes to alcohol, but I'd also let's treat everyone like adults and ask them to be responsible.

The issue is not fairness to publicans, but whether you spread the disease.
The whole way people use restaurants is different from pubs. You to a restaurant with a group, you sit at your own table and eat and do not generally interact with other customers. You drink some, but usually not enough to make you a bollix. In pubs, you go to meet people, and many people go to pubs for a session, with every intention of becoming a bollix. As for the gastro pub, many pubs were making a mockery of the food rules and this is presumably an attempt to prevent that. And a genuine food bill makes it less likely that people will go from place to place in some sort of bizarre twelve pubs of Xmas.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on November 27, 2020, 03:42:00 PM
Quote from: five points on November 27, 2020, 03:18:28 PM
I agree with all those points Hound. It's as if the government wants rid of non-food pubs, permanently.

it is a crazy decision.
lump all the small country pubs that might hold 20-30 on a really busy night, in with mega pubs that can hold 400 or 500 people.
just a lazy ass answer by civil servants and politicians based in Dublin and other big metropolitan areas. who most likely have never run a business.
I used to think that the the two Kerry TD's were right old eegits. I now regret that thought.
Ireland either needs a rural Ireland political party, or an organized coalition of similar minded elected politicians.
My opinion is this decision will be the nail in the coffin for hundreds of small local pubs, which in one respect act as a social club for older folk who go out once or twice a week to have a laugh and a talk with friends and neighbors.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 27, 2020, 03:51:52 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 27, 2020, 02:58:34 PM
So for the 26 is looks like:

Tuesday 1 December - everything open apart from pubs and restaurants
Monday 7 December - restaurants and gastropubs allowed open
Household gatherings will only be permitted from 18 December to 3 January but certain restrictions (i.e. there'll be a max number)

So it looks like "wet" pubs won't be allowed open at all!
And the term "gastropubs" has only come into this conversation in recent days. I haven't seen it confirmed but it appears "gastropub" may mean a chef has to be on site, so no bringing grub in from the chipper next door, etc.

This seems really harsh on publicans.

I can understand the need for precaution, especially when it comes to alcohol, but I'd also let's treat everyone like adults and ask them to be responsible.

I haven't seen any talk of an alcohol curfew in Ireland, but I think early closing would help reduce infractions. I would be strongly in favour of opening pubs in a controlled environment, table service only, max of 6 (or even 4) per table, masks to be worn when you get up from the table, distances between tables, sanitisers available, last orders 10pm.

I think the argument that people will go to house parties when they leave the pub is very weak. The vast majority of people have no interest in house parties in the current climate, and those that do will be more likely to attend parties if the pubs are closed.

Whats the story with hotels?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on November 27, 2020, 05:20:25 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 27, 2020, 03:51:52 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 27, 2020, 02:58:34 PM
So for the 26 is looks like:

Tuesday 1 December - everything open apart from pubs and restaurants
Monday 7 December - restaurants and gastropubs allowed open
Household gatherings will only be permitted from 18 December to 3 January but certain restrictions (i.e. there'll be a max number)

So it looks like "wet" pubs won't be allowed open at all!
And the term "gastropubs" has only come into this conversation in recent days. I haven't seen it confirmed but it appears "gastropub" may mean a chef has to be on site, so no bringing grub in from the chipper next door, etc.

This seems really harsh on publicans.

I can understand the need for precaution, especially when it comes to alcohol, but I'd also let's treat everyone like adults and ask them to be responsible.

I haven't seen any talk of an alcohol curfew in Ireland, but I think early closing would help reduce infractions. I would be strongly in favour of opening pubs in a controlled environment, table service only, max of 6 (or even 4) per table, masks to be worn when you get up from the table, distances between tables, sanitisers available, last orders 10pm.

I think the argument that people will go to house parties when they leave the pub is very weak. The vast majority of people have no interest in house parties in the current climate, and those that do will be more likely to attend parties if the pubs are closed.

Whats the story with hotels?

Reopens December 4th

Bottom in the 7 day European table now.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En19O5bW4AAoEdU?format=png&name=900x900)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 27, 2020, 05:33:29 PM
Quote from: Seaney on November 27, 2020, 01:09:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 27, 2020, 10:56:00 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 27, 2020, 09:52:37 AM
Yes, are we happy to accept that 350k for the sake of these two weeks are still allowed to betray the concept of the lockdown?

It will basically undermine the whole principal surely.

Anything remaining open reduces the effectiveness of the lockdown. However, other places, including the 26 counties have signficantly reduced their rates while keeping schools open.

I'd say schools vary greatly in their efforts, if every school was as good as the best school in its hygiene then things might do rightly.

Sure blame the schools, what about transport too and from, I have seen buses where even the driver isn't wearing a mask.

Bus driver is behind a screen, you'd have seen that if you'd have actually been looking
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 27, 2020, 06:16:50 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 27, 2020, 05:20:25 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 27, 2020, 03:51:52 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 27, 2020, 02:58:34 PM
So for the 26 is looks like:

Tuesday 1 December - everything open apart from pubs and restaurants
Monday 7 December - restaurants and gastropubs allowed open
Household gatherings will only be permitted from 18 December to 3 January but certain restrictions (i.e. there'll be a max number)

So it looks like "wet" pubs won't be allowed open at all!
And the term "gastropubs" has only come into this conversation in recent days. I haven't seen it confirmed but it appears "gastropub" may mean a chef has to be on site, so no bringing grub in from the chipper next door, etc.

This seems really harsh on publicans.

I can understand the need for precaution, especially when it comes to alcohol, but I'd also let's treat everyone like adults and ask them to be responsible.

I haven't seen any talk of an alcohol curfew in Ireland, but I think early closing would help reduce infractions. I would be strongly in favour of opening pubs in a controlled environment, table service only, max of 6 (or even 4) per table, masks to be worn when you get up from the table, distances between tables, sanitisers available, last orders 10pm.

I think the argument that people will go to house parties when they leave the pub is very weak. The vast majority of people have no interest in house parties in the current climate, and those that do will be more likely to attend parties if the pubs are closed.

Whats the story with hotels?

Reopens December 4th

Bottom in the 7 day European table now.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En19O5bW4AAoEdU?format=png&name=900x900)

Well done ROI . Great leadership from government
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on November 27, 2020, 07:01:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 27, 2020, 06:16:50 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 27, 2020, 05:20:25 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 27, 2020, 03:51:52 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 27, 2020, 02:58:34 PM
So for the 26 is looks like:

Tuesday 1 December - everything open apart from pubs and restaurants
Monday 7 December - restaurants and gastropubs allowed open
Household gatherings will only be permitted from 18 December to 3 January but certain restrictions (i.e. there'll be a max number)

So it looks like "wet" pubs won't be allowed open at all!
And the term "gastropubs" has only come into this conversation in recent days. I haven't seen it confirmed but it appears "gastropub" may mean a chef has to be on site, so no bringing grub in from the chipper next door, etc.

This seems really harsh on publicans.

I can understand the need for precaution, especially when it comes to alcohol, but I'd also let's treat everyone like adults and ask them to be responsible.

I haven't seen any talk of an alcohol curfew in Ireland, but I think early closing would help reduce infractions. I would be strongly in favour of opening pubs in a controlled environment, table service only, max of 6 (or even 4) per table, masks to be worn when you get up from the table, distances between tables, sanitisers available, last orders 10pm.

I think the argument that people will go to house parties when they leave the pub is very weak. The vast majority of people have no interest in house parties in the current climate, and those that do will be more likely to attend parties if the pubs are closed.

Whats the story with hotels?

Reopens December 4th

Bottom in the 7 day European table now.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En19O5bW4AAoEdU?format=png&name=900x900)

Well done ROI . Great leadership from government

I'd give the most credit to the people, alot of sacrifices made and at a time when most were already covid fatigued.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 27, 2020, 08:11:48 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 27, 2020, 07:01:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 27, 2020, 06:16:50 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 27, 2020, 05:20:25 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 27, 2020, 03:51:52 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 27, 2020, 02:58:34 PM
So for the 26 is looks like:

Tuesday 1 December - everything open apart from pubs and restaurants
Monday 7 December - restaurants and gastropubs allowed open
Household gatherings will only be permitted from 18 December to 3 January but certain restrictions (i.e. there'll be a max number)

So it looks like "wet" pubs won't be allowed open at all!
And the term "gastropubs" has only come into this conversation in recent days. I haven't seen it confirmed but it appears "gastropub" may mean a chef has to be on site, so no bringing grub in from the chipper next door, etc.

This seems really harsh on publicans.

I can understand the need for precaution, especially when it comes to alcohol, but I'd also let's treat everyone like adults and ask them to be responsible.

I haven't seen any talk of an alcohol curfew in Ireland, but I think early closing would help reduce infractions. I would be strongly in favour of opening pubs in a controlled environment, table service only, max of 6 (or even 4) per table, masks to be worn when you get up from the table, distances between tables, sanitisers available, last orders 10pm.

I think the argument that people will go to house parties when they leave the pub is very weak. The vast majority of people have no interest in house parties in the current climate, and those that do will be more likely to attend parties if the pubs are closed.

Whats the story with hotels?

Reopens December 4th

Bottom in the 7 day European table now.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En19O5bW4AAoEdU?format=png&name=900x900)

Well done ROI . Great leadership from government

I'd give the most credit to the people, alot of sacrifices made and at a time when most were already covid fatigued.

Aye but you need proper direction and organisation, don't be disingenuous
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 27, 2020, 10:43:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 27, 2020, 06:16:50 PM
Well done ROI . Great leadership from government

There is endless whining in some quarters. However, I think their timing is fairly sound, they put on the brakes in October and now we can speed up a bit coming into the Xmas. The health service is operational, the schools carried on throughout, there is a certain amount of compensation for affected sectors. There isn't much more that you can do. Let's see if they can keep the R around 1 so that subsequent increased restrictions are not needed before the vaccine cuts in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on November 28, 2020, 01:13:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 27, 2020, 05:33:29 PM
Quote from: Seaney on November 27, 2020, 01:09:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 27, 2020, 10:56:00 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 27, 2020, 09:52:37 AM
Yes, are we happy to accept that 350k for the sake of these two weeks are still allowed to betray the concept of the lockdown?

It will basically undermine the whole principal surely.

Anything remaining open reduces the effectiveness of the lockdown. However, other places, including the 26 counties have signficantly reduced their rates while keeping schools open.

I'd say schools vary greatly in their efforts, if every school was as good as the best school in its hygiene then things might do rightly.

Sure blame the schools, what about transport too and from, I have seen buses where even the driver isn't wearing a mask.

Bus driver is behind a screen, you'd have seen that if you'd have actually been looking

everyone should be wearing a mask in public at all times,

it's to show that you acknowledge the severity of the situation and care for the plight of others less fortunate,

if we could all do that one simple thing,

hardly that big an ask  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 28, 2020, 02:20:57 PM
You think the bus service is not following the rules?

What about the head screens that people wear?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 28, 2020, 02:26:09 PM
The face shields are widely regarded as being pretty much useless...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 28, 2020, 02:29:19 PM
315 cases today but from 5.5k tests. Other days were 400ish from 10k.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on November 29, 2020, 04:11:56 PM
351 cases only 4500 tests
22 days ago 420 cases from 8000 tests
Lockdown doesn't seem to be having much affect
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on November 29, 2020, 05:47:20 PM
Weekly update for the ROI. Good progress made this week and one of the main reasons why restrictions will be lifted from Tuesday.

Cases 1830 (792 less cases than last week)
Reported Deaths 31 (14 less than last week)

In hospital 257 (25 less than last week)
In ICU 30 (1 less than last week)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 29, 2020, 06:00:08 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on November 29, 2020, 04:11:56 PM
351 cases only 4500 tests
22 days ago 420 cases from 8000 tests
Lockdown doesn't seem to be having much affect

How could it, there has been feck all lockdown in the 6 counties in the last week?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on November 29, 2020, 08:35:39 PM
That's my point
Why not lockdown last week?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 29, 2020, 08:43:06 PM
Because the dup said no then changed their mind a week later.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 29, 2020, 08:44:27 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on November 29, 2020, 08:35:39 PM
That's my point
Why not lockdown last week?

Ask Arlene and Sammy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on November 29, 2020, 09:29:46 PM
So if the numbers don't go above 350 what's going on?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 30, 2020, 08:39:38 AM
I don't understand the question...

If the numbers don't go above 350. Why 350? Do you mean after the lockdown is done / finished?

Armaghniac there have been restrictions up here. I don't even know what constitutes a lockdown any more there are that many variations of it but if no bars or restaurants are open I would call that a lockdown to some extent. Yes it's more stringent now but there definitely have been a significant number of restrictions for quite a while here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 30, 2020, 10:04:04 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 30, 2020, 08:39:38 AM
I don't understand the question...

If the numbers don't go above 350. Why 350? Do you mean after the lockdown is done / finished?

Armaghniac there have been restrictions up here. I don't even know what constitutes a lockdown any more there are that many variations of it but if no bars or restaurants are open I would call that a lockdown to some extent. Yes it's more stringent now but there definitely have been a significant number of restrictions for quite a while here.

I was going for the one liner. The point was the restrictions were eased last week, although the job had not been done. Figures have come down in NI and that did reflect the restrictions in place. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on November 30, 2020, 09:16:11 PM
Schools staying open as planned then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: moysider on November 30, 2020, 10:37:14 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 30, 2020, 09:16:11 PM
Schools staying open as planned then?

Where?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 01, 2020, 08:20:53 AM
What I am sayin is if the numbers don't go above 350/450 then the 8 days madness with shopping hairdressers restaurants Beauty salons open then why not?
If numbers do not rise in next 4/5 days then the above don't add to the case numbers
That's my point
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 01, 2020, 08:40:09 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 01, 2020, 08:20:53 AM
What I am sayin is if the numbers don't go above 350/450 then the 8 days madness with shopping hairdressers restaurants Beauty salons open then why not?
If numbers do not rise in next 4/5 days then the above don't add to the case numbers
That's my point

Shops closed Thursday last week, it will take up to 2/3 weeks surely for any significant differences in the numbers?

What we currently have, numbers wise is the result of the previous lockdown?

I'm not up on the timescales but think this was mentioned before.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 01, 2020, 09:41:04 AM
The week "off" in the middle completely skews numbers. I honestly don't know how they expect to measure the impact of a 2 week lockdown unless they continue it. If they stop it then it takes 2 weeks to see the benefit (minimum apparently) so only on the day you potentially end lockdown do you know anything.

The numbers you will see mid lockdown will actually be the numbers from the non lockdown. How do you assess it and give any business any time to plan for what's happening? The only way is at the last minute which is the worst possible time for any business and the best way for any of them to waste loads of money paying for a potential opening again when it may or may not happen.

The handling of it is bonkers. Lay out a bit of vision and planning. What are we doing, why are we doing it, we are measuring it at point X. The potential results are this. Here is what each of potential result would lead to. Transparency and data driven decisions could then be made. Not fly by the seat of your pants stuff. Anyway, rant over.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 01, 2020, 04:26:44 PM
390 positive cases today
4 weeks ago tomorrow we had 410 cases
Have the last 5 weeks been a total waste of time?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 01, 2020, 04:42:14 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 01, 2020, 04:26:44 PM
390 positive cases today
4 weeks ago tomorrow we had 410 cases
Have the last 5 weeks been a total waste of time?

In what way?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 01, 2020, 04:50:28 PM
In a way that cases have barely if at all went down in 4 weeks during a lockdown
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on December 01, 2020, 04:53:04 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 01, 2020, 04:50:28 PM
In a way that cases have barely if at all went down in 4 weeks during a lockdown
Without restrictions cases would have increased not stabilise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on December 01, 2020, 05:00:50 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 01, 2020, 04:26:44 PM
390 positive cases today
4 weeks ago tomorrow we had 410 cases
Have the last 5 weeks been a total waste of time?

Before restrictions kicked in just before Halloween cases had risen to around 1,200 a day and hospital inpatients were climbing daily. The numbers clearly show the restrictions have had an impact. And if they'd done a stricter lockdown earlier we'd have had less cases, hospital inpatients and deaths. But at least it has been brought back down to a manageable level.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on December 01, 2020, 06:20:08 PM
18 new deaths reported in 26 (15 in November, 1 in October, 2 under investigation)

The way cases are reported remain odd.

Positive tests last 48hrs - 389
Reported cases last 48hrs - 575
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on December 02, 2020, 08:21:04 AM
Vaccine for the UK from next week. https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-uk-approves-use-of-pfizers-coronavirus-vaccine-12148786
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 02, 2020, 09:29:20 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 02, 2020, 08:21:04 AM
Vaccine for the UK from next week. https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-uk-approves-use-of-pfizers-coronavirus-vaccine-12148786

Great news, very welcome development. One more step closer to the end of this constant depression.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: square_ball on December 02, 2020, 02:31:09 PM
The Gym, Newry going with the all publicly is good publicity strategy.


Apologies if discussed elsewhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on December 02, 2020, 02:50:34 PM
Quote from: square_ball on December 02, 2020, 02:31:09 PM
The Gym, Newry going with the all publicly is good publicity strategy.


Apologies if discussed elsewhere.

Saw a few videos doing the rounds.

Embarrassing.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on December 02, 2020, 03:03:18 PM
Quote from: square_ball on December 02, 2020, 02:31:09 PM
The Gym, Newry going with the all publicly is good publicity strategy.


Apologies if discussed elsewhere.

Gym owners have been the biggest pukes of all during the pandemic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: nrico2006 on December 02, 2020, 03:08:55 PM
Why is it that gym owners and PTs all seem to be philosophers too.  Those Newry videos would puke the life out of you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: square_ball on December 02, 2020, 03:14:31 PM
They love playing the mental health card.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 02, 2020, 03:16:34 PM
400+ cases up north today. Numbers not really reducing at all (too soon from current incarnation of lockdown I know but this time a few weeks ago cafes, restaurants and bars weren't open were they?).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on December 02, 2020, 03:25:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 02, 2020, 03:16:34 PM
400+ cases up north today. Numbers not really reducing at all (too soon from current incarnation of lockdown I know but this time a few weeks ago cafes, restaurants and bars weren't open were they?).

Not surprising.  High streets, public transport etc is still packed, lockdown or not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on December 02, 2020, 03:26:52 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on December 02, 2020, 03:08:55 PM
Why is it that gym owners and PTs all seem to be philosophers too.  Those Newry videos would puke the life out of you.

The big book of motivational quotes started them on the road to philosophical studies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 02, 2020, 03:38:59 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on December 02, 2020, 03:25:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 02, 2020, 03:16:34 PM
400+ cases up north today. Numbers not really reducing at all (too soon from current incarnation of lockdown I know but this time a few weeks ago cafes, restaurants and bars weren't open were they?).

Not surprising.  High streets, public transport etc is still packed, lockdown or not.

Where? I'm in belfast and rarely see a person on a bus and any time I've been in Belfast city centre there are very few about.

It has been a very long time since I have seen a packed bus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 02, 2020, 03:40:33 PM
Quote from: square_ball on December 02, 2020, 03:14:31 PM
They love playing the mental health card.

They have a valid point in fairness.

Must be very hard for them to be in a business where the margins are fine enough as is, in a labour of love and half of them aren't getting what they should be getting on time from what I know. Was only a matter of time before some businesses started to strike back.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: square_ball on December 02, 2020, 03:47:37 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 02, 2020, 03:40:33 PM
Quote from: square_ball on December 02, 2020, 03:14:31 PM
They love playing the mental health card.

They have a valid point in fairness.

Must be very hard for them to be in a business where the margins are fine enough as is, in a labour of love and half of them aren't getting what they should be getting on time from what I know. Was only a matter of time before some businesses started to strike back.

I'm talking about them going on and on and playing the mental card regarding their customers. I would suggest they don't give two hoots about their customers mental health.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 02, 2020, 03:49:42 PM
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/newry-gym-owner-appears-court-19386407?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar (https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/newry-gym-owner-appears-court-19386407?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar)

Is this the newry gym guy??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on December 02, 2020, 03:50:46 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 02, 2020, 03:38:59 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on December 02, 2020, 03:25:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 02, 2020, 03:16:34 PM
400+ cases up north today. Numbers not really reducing at all (too soon from current incarnation of lockdown I know but this time a few weeks ago cafes, restaurants and bars weren't open were they?).

Not surprising.  High streets, public transport etc is still packed, lockdown or not.

Where? I'm in belfast and rarely see a person on a bus and any time I've been in Belfast city centre there are very few about.

It has been a very long time since I have seen a packed bus.

I am on the trains and they are mostly full.  Now, not pre covid full, but a healthy crowd nonetheless.

Lisburn Bow Street hasn't really stopped. Loads of people about.  Last week was like a cattle market, this week isn't on that level but it is nowhere near what the actual lockdown was like earlier in the year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 02, 2020, 03:52:47 PM
Quote from: square_ball on December 02, 2020, 03:47:37 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 02, 2020, 03:40:33 PM
Quote from: square_ball on December 02, 2020, 03:14:31 PM
They love playing the mental health card.

They have a valid point in fairness.

Must be very hard for them to be in a business where the margins are fine enough as is, in a labour of love and half of them aren't getting what they should be getting on time from what I know. Was only a matter of time before some businesses started to strike back.

I'm talking about them going on and on and playing the mental card regarding their customers. I would suggest they don't give two hoots about their customers mental health.

Maybe, you could well be right, but you put people in that position financially. Sooner or later there was going to be unrest.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on December 02, 2020, 03:53:30 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 02, 2020, 03:49:42 PM
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/newry-gym-owner-appears-court-19386407?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar (https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/newry-gym-owner-appears-court-19386407?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar)

Is this the newry gym guy??

Aye that's him.  If you've facebook you can see all the videos on their business page.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 02, 2020, 03:55:16 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 02, 2020, 03:49:42 PM
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/newry-gym-owner-appears-court-19386407?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar (https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/newry-gym-owner-appears-court-19386407?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar)

Is this the newry gym guy??

That's him alright

QuoteThe accused, when asked to confirm his identity, replied: "My name is Declan...I am a man..I am a human being."

Sounding like one of those "soverign citizens" or "freemen" you see Youtube videos about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 02, 2020, 03:57:02 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on December 02, 2020, 03:50:46 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 02, 2020, 03:38:59 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on December 02, 2020, 03:25:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 02, 2020, 03:16:34 PM
400+ cases up north today. Numbers not really reducing at all (too soon from current incarnation of lockdown I know but this time a few weeks ago cafes, restaurants and bars weren't open were they?).

Not surprising.  High streets, public transport etc is still packed, lockdown or not.

Where? I'm in belfast and rarely see a person on a bus and any time I've been in Belfast city centre there are very few about.

It has been a very long time since I have seen a packed bus.

I am on the trains and they are mostly full.  Now, not pre covid full, but a healthy crowd nonetheless.

Lisburn Bow Street hasn't really stopped. Loads of people about.  Last week was like a cattle market, this week isn't on that level but it is nowhere near what the actual lockdown was like earlier in the year.

I wouldn't be about at rush hour to see buses but any I have seen you could count on one hand the people on it. I used to use cairnshill park and ride and the car park would be 80-90% full(hundreds of cars). These days it is barely into double figures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: square_ball on December 02, 2020, 03:59:55 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 02, 2020, 03:52:47 PM
Quote from: square_ball on December 02, 2020, 03:47:37 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 02, 2020, 03:40:33 PM
Quote from: square_ball on December 02, 2020, 03:14:31 PM
They love playing the mental health card.

They have a valid point in fairness.

Must be very hard for them to be in a business where the margins are fine enough as is, in a labour of love and half of them aren't getting what they should be getting on time from what I know. Was only a matter of time before some businesses started to strike back.

I'm talking about them going on and on and playing the mental card regarding their customers. I would suggest they don't give two hoots about their customers mental health.

Maybe, you could well be right, but you put people in that position financially. Sooner or later there was going to be unrest.

Absolutely and people and businesses who are forced to close have to be frustrated and annoyed to say the least.

It's just the whole mental health thing they flippantly use to try and make a point that annoys me.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on December 02, 2020, 04:38:15 PM
Quote from: square_ball on December 02, 2020, 03:59:55 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 02, 2020, 03:52:47 PM
Quote from: square_ball on December 02, 2020, 03:47:37 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 02, 2020, 03:40:33 PM
Quote from: square_ball on December 02, 2020, 03:14:31 PM
They love playing the mental health card.

They have a valid point in fairness.

Must be very hard for them to be in a business where the margins are fine enough as is, in a labour of love and half of them aren't getting what they should be getting on time from what I know. Was only a matter of time before some businesses started to strike back.

I'm talking about them going on and on and playing the mental card regarding their customers. I would suggest they don't give two hoots about their customers mental health.

Maybe, you could well be right, but you put people in that position financially. Sooner or later there was going to be unrest.

Absolutely and people and businesses who are forced to close have to be frustrated and annoyed to say the least.

It's just the whole mental health thing they flippantly use to try and make a point that annoys me.

The mental health card is always the go to weapon
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on December 02, 2020, 04:59:04 PM
Quote from: square_ball on December 02, 2020, 03:59:55 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 02, 2020, 03:52:47 PM
Quote from: square_ball on December 02, 2020, 03:47:37 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 02, 2020, 03:40:33 PM
Quote from: square_ball on December 02, 2020, 03:14:31 PM
They love playing the mental health card.

They have a valid point in fairness.

Must be very hard for them to be in a business where the margins are fine enough as is, in a labour of love and half of them aren't getting what they should be getting on time from what I know. Was only a matter of time before some businesses started to strike back.

I'm talking about them going on and on and playing the mental card regarding their customers. I would suggest they don't give two hoots about their customers mental health.

Maybe, you could well be right, but you put people in that position financially. Sooner or later there was going to be unrest.

Absolutely and people and businesses who are forced to close have to be frustrated and annoyed to say the least.

It's just the whole mental health thing they flippantly use to try and make a point that annoys me.
Annoys the life out of me as well. Gym owners love pulling that one out. They act like not getting to the gym is the only aspect of this pandemic that is detrimental to people's mental health. They got it much easier than the likes of hospitality which is on the verge of collapse.

Your man in Newry is an embarrassment, completely unprofessional and if I was a member there I'd be joining another gym.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 02, 2020, 05:58:54 PM
416 cases in the 6 counties. The 7 day rate is marginally higher than the previous 7 day rate. Belfast is now lower than most country areas, and has half the rate of Derry or mid-Ulster. Meanwhile the 26 has 270 cases today, is among the lowest in Europe, so the rate in the 6 counties is 3.5 times that of the 26.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 03, 2020, 03:36:03 PM
456 cases up north. Everyone will have had it before this vaccine at current rate!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 03, 2020, 03:48:08 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 03, 2020, 03:36:03 PM
456 cases up north. Everyone will have had it before this vaccine at current rate!!

That is 0.02% of Northern Ireland.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 03, 2020, 03:50:40 PM
456 is? It's not the one day total that is worrying - it's a number that just keeps either steady or growing. I'm obviously exaggerating there but you would like to think that there'll be some improvement from our lockdowns at some point. As of yet we're not seeing them in numbers at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 03, 2020, 03:55:18 PM
No idea what to think on our numbers. I'm actually at a loss, seems to be 400 every day no matter what they do. Kind of numb to it at this stage really.

We must have a very high carehome population / problem because honestly, in mid Ulster this is not a big a problem as the numbers suggest. Anything I hear is now school related (that is genuinely confirmed).

Am I sticking the head in the sand? I genuinely don't know anymore about the North.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 03, 2020, 04:04:33 PM
NI never seems to get ahead of it, the positivity rate from test is still 8%, suggesting that they are not reaching all the contacts. Mid and East Antrim leading the way now, following the example of their political leaders.

100,000+ in hospital in the USA, and 2800 odd dying each day. A sign of a failed state?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 03, 2020, 04:11:30 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 03, 2020, 03:55:18 PM
No idea what to think on our numbers. I'm actually at a loss, seems to be 400 every day no matter what they do. Kind of numb to it at this stage really.

We must have a very high carehome population / problem because honestly, in mid Ulster this is not a big a problem as the numbers suggest. Anything I hear is now school related (that is genuinely confirmed).

Am I sticking the head in the sand? I genuinely don't know anymore about the North.

Yeah I would be at a loss too tbh. The cases I hear of, and to be honest have encountered, are coming through schools / nurseries.

Between brexit and this armaghniac then absolutely a failed state and america is a failure now too not just because of covid. That being said looking at the dail voting to not pay student nurses and reading some of their stories they look as bad as the english tories too :( (not quite mind you but you do have to wonder about that vote and the school meals ones in england and how they find so many so callous people and group them all together).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 03, 2020, 04:22:32 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 03, 2020, 04:11:30 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 03, 2020, 03:55:18 PM
No idea what to think on our numbers. I'm actually at a loss, seems to be 400 every day no matter what they do. Kind of numb to it at this stage really.

We must have a very high carehome population / problem because honestly, in mid Ulster this is not a big a problem as the numbers suggest. Anything I hear is now school related (that is genuinely confirmed).

Am I sticking the head in the sand? I genuinely don't know anymore about the North.

Yeah I would be at a loss too tbh. The cases I hear of, and to be honest have encountered, are coming through schools / nurseries.

Between brexit and this armaghniac then absolutely a failed state and america is a failure now too not just because of covid. That being said looking at the dail voting to not pay student nurses and reading some of their stories they look as bad as the english tories too :( (not quite mind you but you do have to wonder about that vote and the school meals ones in england and how they find so many so callous people and group them all together).

I would hope that the 26 county government would still do something for the nurses, even if they do not quite agree with the formula proposed by the opposition.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 03, 2020, 04:51:04 PM
Public support for Covid precautions has largley been lost in the North unfortunatley. Every shop in the North seems to be essential FFS.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 03, 2020, 05:19:39 PM
Yeah I noticed furniture and sweet shops seemed essential.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 03, 2020, 05:20:20 PM
Sounds like everything, in some style or another is opening in the North next Friday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 03, 2020, 05:51:27 PM
183 cases in the 26 counties, that's a bit more hopeful than the wee 6!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 03, 2020, 05:55:16 PM
Equivalent to about 70ish in the 6.
If we were still having their level of cases we'd be back to April style restrictions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 03, 2020, 06:19:45 PM
Is there some issue with a school in Newry, Mourne and Down? A lot of younger people in the testing, or maybe they just have a younger population.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 03, 2020, 06:31:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 03, 2020, 05:51:27 PM
183 cases in the 26 counties, that's a bit more hopeful than the wee 6!
Seems there's been a Computer glitch as they expected the figure to be higher.
We can expect a relatively high figure tomorrow so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 03, 2020, 06:37:59 PM
The R number is higher now than when things were turned down a few weeks ago
Even by their standards it's really all over the show.
Expect 550 cases by next Thursday
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 03, 2020, 06:44:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 03, 2020, 06:31:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 03, 2020, 05:51:27 PM
183 cases in the 26 counties, that's a bit more hopeful than the wee 6!
Seems there's been a Computer glitch as they expected the figure to be higher.
We can expect a relatively high figure tomorrow so.

Probably 450 odd tomorrow, but still no more than the 6 counties!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on December 03, 2020, 06:57:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 03, 2020, 06:31:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 03, 2020, 05:51:27 PM
183 cases in the 26 counties, that's a bit more hopeful than the wee 6!
Seems there's been a Computer glitch as they expected the figure to be higher.
We can expect a relatively high figure tomorrow so.
253 positive tests in the last 24 hours from 12,048 test so roughly 70 cases to be added in tomorrow giving probably over 300 reported cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 03, 2020, 07:00:13 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 03, 2020, 06:57:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 03, 2020, 06:31:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 03, 2020, 05:51:27 PM
183 cases in the 26 counties, that's a bit more hopeful than the wee 6!
Seems there's been a Computer glitch as they expected the figure to be higher.
We can expect a relatively high figure tomorrow so.
253 positive tests in the last 24 hours from 12,048 test so roughly 70 cases to be added in tomorrow giving probably over 300 reported cases.

That wouldn't be too bad at all. Numbers will go up over the Xmas, but the lower they start off then the more headroom there is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 03, 2020, 07:20:23 PM
We're opening everything except "wet pubs" up here it seems. Happy days. Christmas off :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on December 03, 2020, 07:22:02 PM
Anyone else think that the closure of "wet" pubs means the opening of house party central?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on December 03, 2020, 07:38:18 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 03, 2020, 07:22:02 PM
Anyone else think that the closure of "wet" pubs means the opening of house party central?

No.

Most in my local haven't been to a house party in 30 years. A few wakes spilled over into something else but generally we don't read the will until a few days after the funeral now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 03, 2020, 08:35:46 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 03, 2020, 07:22:02 PM
Anyone else think that the closure of "wet" pubs means the opening of house party central?

Again I don't really get everything opening up except "wet pubs". Same way I didn't get everything closing down except, X, Y, Z
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 03, 2020, 08:39:21 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 03, 2020, 08:35:46 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 03, 2020, 07:22:02 PM
Anyone else think that the closure of "wet" pubs means the opening of house party central?

Again I don't really get everything opening up except "wet pubs". Same way I didn't get everything closing down except, X, Y, Z

It is hardly rocket science, the more you open the more the virus increases and the sooner you have to close everything again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 03, 2020, 08:51:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 03, 2020, 08:39:21 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 03, 2020, 08:35:46 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 03, 2020, 07:22:02 PM
Anyone else think that the closure of "wet" pubs means the opening of house party central?

Again I don't really get everything opening up except "wet pubs". Same way I didn't get everything closing down except, X, Y, Z

It is hardly rocket science, the more you open the more the virus increases and the sooner you have to close everything again.

Not much point bringing science into this one.

"Wet Pubs", Christ I hate that term....have been closed now since March? Yet it still runs free. Ireland, North and South....Europe.....

Basically the restrictions say, play away, you don't get Covid anywhere else but a "Wet pub"

Feel so sorry for people who have their lives into this industry, it's an absolute disgrace the continual scapegoating. We can have hundreds, maybe thousands in towns now from next Friday going absolutely mental....and they will. Yet some oul boy can't get a pint in a local bar.

Nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 03, 2020, 08:55:22 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 03, 2020, 08:51:22 PM
Not much point bringing science into this one.
"Wet Pubs", Christ I hate that term....have been closed now since March? Yet it still runs free. Ireland, North and South....Europe.....

At least in the part of Ireland not run by the British, the virus does not "run free", it is under control, and that is because high risk activities like pubs are not open.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 03, 2020, 08:58:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 03, 2020, 08:55:22 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 03, 2020, 08:51:22 PM
Not much point bringing science into this one.
"Wet Pubs", Christ I hate that term....have been closed now since March? Yet it still runs free. Ireland, North and South....Europe.....

At least in the part of Ireland not run by the British, the virus does not "run free", it is under control, and that is because high risk activities like pubs are not open.

Ah look I acknowledge your point. But an infected person shopping, at a leisure centre, church et al, is the same as an infected person drinking.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Olly on December 03, 2020, 09:11:36 PM
I don't agree. I've never rid a person at Mass.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 03, 2020, 09:24:42 PM
Quote from: Olly on December 03, 2020, 09:11:36 PM
I don't agree. I've never rid a person at Mass.

Remember, the thought is as bad as the deed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyssam5 on December 04, 2020, 04:58:55 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 03, 2020, 08:58:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 03, 2020, 08:55:22 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 03, 2020, 08:51:22 PM
Not much point bringing science into this one.
"Wet Pubs", Christ I hate that term....have been closed now since March? Yet it still runs free. Ireland, North and South....Europe.....

At least in the part of Ireland not run by the British, the virus does not "run free", it is under control, and that is because high risk activities like pubs are not open.

Ah look I acknowledge your point. But an infected person shopping, at a leisure centre, church et al, is the same as an infected person drinking.

Are masks not compulsory in shops in the North at this point?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 04, 2020, 06:53:24 AM
With the 7/8 day lag would it be that today or tomorrow would see peak numbers? And from Sunday through until December 14th drop again?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 09:24:42 AM
Quote from: tyssam5 on December 04, 2020, 04:58:55 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 03, 2020, 08:58:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 03, 2020, 08:55:22 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 03, 2020, 08:51:22 PM
Not much point bringing science into this one.
"Wet Pubs", Christ I hate that term....have been closed now since March? Yet it still runs free. Ireland, North and South....Europe.....

At least in the part of Ireland not run by the British, the virus does not "run free", it is under control, and that is because high risk activities like pubs are not open.

Ah look I acknowledge your point. But an infected person shopping, at a leisure centre, church et al, is the same as an infected person drinking.

Are masks not compulsory in shops in the North at this point?

A scarf round the face does not offer any inward or outward protection, especially when they are up and down as needed. Making "face coverings" compulsory has been another nonsense of this pandemic. Distance and ventilation indoors has always been key. Truly baffles me to see people wearing these designer face coverings with absolutely no protection in or out in reality in groups of 9 or 10 out and about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on December 04, 2020, 10:12:05 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 03, 2020, 08:39:21 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 03, 2020, 08:35:46 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 03, 2020, 07:22:02 PM
Anyone else think that the closure of "wet" pubs means the opening of house party central?

Again I don't really get everything opening up except "wet pubs". Same way I didn't get everything closing down except, X, Y, Z

It is hardly rocket science, the more you open the more the virus increases and the sooner you have to close everything again.

Rocket science is rarely applicable to government policies.

Churches in the north can reopen and will be judged individually in terms of capacity. Let's collect all the old catholics in the 6 counties in a handful of locations and wipe them out. Oh and as it's Christmas, let's ensure we do so at the only time of year a full house is likely. Great idea.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 04, 2020, 11:09:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 03, 2020, 08:58:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 03, 2020, 08:55:22 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 03, 2020, 08:51:22 PM
Not much point bringing science into this one.
"Wet Pubs", Christ I hate that term....have been closed now since March? Yet it still runs free. Ireland, North and South....Europe.....

At least in the part of Ireland not run by the British, the virus does not "run free", it is under control, and that is because high risk activities like pubs are not open.

Ah look I acknowledge your point. But an infected person shopping, at a leisure centre, church et al, is the same as an infected person drinking.

A person with a mask going into a shop, keeping away from people, doing their purchases and out again, is not as risky as sitting beside someone for several hours in a pub. The whole reason people regret going to the pub is that they cannot meet people, but of course meeting people is exactly what the virus needs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 04, 2020, 11:24:43 AM
Exactly.
I won't be having any kind of social Christmas this year other than a quiet early evening mid week bit o' grub with herself somewhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on December 04, 2020, 12:31:45 PM
Having a conversation with a work colleague and I said, like many on here, that I believe pubs should be shut.

The response was that they have been shut for almost 7 months and the virus is still spreading - yet next week everything is allowed to open bar pubs.

He had a point the more I thought about it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 12:46:13 PM
Quote from: Taylor on December 04, 2020, 12:31:45 PM
Having a conversation with a work colleague and I said, like many on here, that I believe pubs should be shut.

The response was that they have been shut for almost 7 months and the virus is still spreading - yet next week everything is allowed to open bar pubs.

He had a point the more I thought about it

Exactly my thinking. Pretty much blaming them for the whole spread. Of course time has since proven that nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on December 04, 2020, 12:48:19 PM
Going to a pub, with a time limit, spaced apart from others, having to wear a mask when moving around, constant cleaning, track & trace and table-service only?

Versus tesco, people travelling from 6/7 mile radius, no one staying spaced apart, people not wearing masks, people lifting things and putting them down, people handling trolleys/baskets, going to the self service check out which I haven't seen once being cleaned despite being touched constantly...

Not saying pubs should or shouldn't be open, but they're not the worst source of spreading the virus. The more you limit the number of places people can go the more they are going to be concentrated in places they can go. And that includes house parties.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 04, 2020, 01:14:23 PM
Quote from: Taylor on December 04, 2020, 12:31:45 PM
Having a conversation with a work colleague and I said, like many on here, that I believe pubs should be shut.

The response was that they have been shut for almost 7 months and the virus is still spreading - yet next week everything is allowed to open bar pubs.

He had a point the more I thought about it

He doesn't have a point. You close the places which have the highest risk of transmitting the virus. That the virus still spreads is not a reason to open pubs it is a reason to look at the operation of other activities.

Quote from: general_lee on December 04, 2020, 12:48:19 PM
Versus tesco, people travelling from 6/7 mile radius, no one staying spaced apart, people not wearing masks, people lifting things and putting them down, people handling trolleys/baskets, going to the self service check out which I haven't seen once being cleaned despite being touched constantly...

I'm not sure which Tesco you go to, but in mine people by and large stay apart rightly. But the point is that you do not go to Tesco to meet people, you can avoid them if you want to. People claim to want to go to the pub to meet people, which is precisely what transmits the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 04, 2020, 01:14:34 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 04, 2020, 12:48:19 PM
Going to a pub, with a time limit, spaced apart from others, having to wear a mask when moving around, constant cleaning, track & trace and table-service only?

Versus tesco, people travelling from 6/7 mile radius, no one staying spaced apart, people not wearing masks, people lifting things and putting them down, people handling trolleys/baskets, going to the self service check out which I haven't seen once being cleaned despite being touched constantly...

Not saying pubs should or shouldn't be open, but they're not the worst source of spreading the virus. The more you limit the number of places people can go the more they are going to be concentrated in places they can go. And that includes house parties.
I'm not sure what supermarket/s you're going to but it's a long time since I've seen a customer not wearing a mask in a supermarket

The one I frequent has perspex screens and hand sanitiser available and spaced out queueing

My experience is that customers are by and large pretty responsible in terms of distancing

I feel about as safe as it's possible to be there under the circumstances, far safer than I would in a pub
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on December 04, 2020, 01:34:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 04, 2020, 01:14:23 PM
Quote from: Taylor on December 04, 2020, 12:31:45 PM
Having a conversation with a work colleague and I said, like many on here, that I believe pubs should be shut.

The response was that they have been shut for almost 7 months and the virus is still spreading - yet next week everything is allowed to open bar pubs.

He had a point the more I thought about it

He doesn't have a point. You close the places which have the highest risk of transmitting the virus. That the virus still spreads is not a reason to open pubs it is a reason to look at the operation of other activities.

Quote from: general_lee on December 04, 2020, 12:48:19 PM
Versus tesco, people travelling from 6/7 mile radius, no one staying spaced apart, people not wearing masks, people lifting things and putting them down, people handling trolleys/baskets, going to the self service check out which I haven't seen once being cleaned despite being touched constantly...

I'm not sure which Tesco you go to, but in mine people by and large stay apart rightly. But the point is that you do not go to Tesco to meet people, you can avoid them if you want to. People claim to want to go to the pub to meet people, which is precisely what transmits the virus.
Interacting with people spreads the virus whether you know them or not. It's all about perception. You think just because your 24 hour Tesco extra is a large space and people are spread out that *hundreds* of them aren't touching the escalator, the self service checkouts, baskets/trolleys, products on shelves etc every day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 01:39:01 PM
Basically you guys are saying you are happy to accept the risk from virtually everything else open.

But not "Wet Pubs".

That really makes no sense lads. I'm not on a wind up here I'm just struggling to fathom how we've got to the point where people will be absolutely steaming this coming Friday and Saturday at bars that serve a sausage roll (and....lets be honest, you know its happening) and that is considered fine. Yet some poor soul out in the middle of the country can't open because they don't serve food.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 04, 2020, 01:48:36 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 01:39:01 PM
Basically you guys are saying you are happy to accept the risk from virtually everything else open.

But not "Wet Pubs".

That really makes no sense lads. I'm not on a wind up here I'm just struggling to fathom how we've got to the point where people will be absolutely steaming this coming Friday and Saturday at bars that serve a sausage roll (and....lets be honest, you know its happening) and that is considered fine. Yet some poor soul out in the middle of the country can't open because they don't serve food.
People have to go to shops to buy food, life doesn't just stop, people have to eat

However they don't have to go the pub

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 02:03:04 PM
Shops have never closed.

I'm talking about everything that was closed, that is now open all of a sudden.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 04, 2020, 02:22:41 PM
You could apply that rationale to cafes and restaurants though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 04, 2020, 02:32:19 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 04, 2020, 01:34:04 PM
Interacting with people spreads the virus whether you know them or not. It's all about perception. You think just because your 24 hour Tesco extra is a large space and people are spread out that *hundreds* of them aren't touching the escalator, the self service checkouts, baskets/trolleys, products on shelves etc every day.

I know, which is why I slather my hands with sanitiser and wash my hands when I come home from Tesco.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on December 04, 2020, 04:02:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 04, 2020, 02:32:19 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 04, 2020, 01:34:04 PM
Interacting with people spreads the virus whether you know them or not. It's all about perception. You think just because your 24 hour Tesco extra is a large space and people are spread out that *hundreds* of them aren't touching the escalator, the self service checkouts, baskets/trolleys, products on shelves etc every day.

I know, which is why I slather my hands with sanitiser and wash my hands when I come home from Tesco.
Other people don't though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on December 04, 2020, 04:04:43 PM
Decent Christmas album.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPDkCOJO3pc
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 04, 2020, 04:05:53 PM
Economy aside. I still don't understand why people would want to sit in a confined space bar or restaurant umasked with a crowd for a prolonged period during a pandemic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on December 04, 2020, 04:08:41 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 04, 2020, 04:05:53 PM
Economy aside. I still don't understand why people would want to sit in a confined space bar or restaurant umasked with a crowd for a prolonged period during a pandemic.

+1

"Mental health" or something probably
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 04:42:29 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55192562

Lovely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on December 04, 2020, 04:53:22 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 04, 2020, 04:08:41 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 04, 2020, 04:05:53 PM
Economy aside. I still don't understand why people would want to sit in a confined space bar or restaurant umasked with a crowd for a prolonged period during a pandemic.

+1

"Mental health" or something probably

Everyone can understand concerns re bars/restaurants but there are many facets to this argument. Dismissing "mental health" as a concern and/or trivialising it, makes no sense
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 04:56:51 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on December 04, 2020, 04:53:22 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 04, 2020, 04:08:41 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 04, 2020, 04:05:53 PM
Economy aside. I still don't understand why people would want to sit in a confined space bar or restaurant umasked with a crowd for a prolonged period during a pandemic.

+1

"Mental health" or something probably

Everyone can understand concerns re bars/restaurants but there are many facets to this argument. Dismissing "mental health" as a concern and/or trivialising it, makes no sense

Common theme with regards to Covid. If it doesn't affect me. Close it.

Yet they wonder why students (who it doesn't affect largely), don't "buy in".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 04, 2020, 05:12:04 PM
Probably being young, indestructible and immature might have something to do with it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 04, 2020, 05:24:01 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on December 04, 2020, 04:53:22 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 04, 2020, 04:08:41 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 04, 2020, 04:05:53 PM
Economy aside. I still don't understand why people would want to sit in a confined space bar or restaurant umasked with a crowd for a prolonged period during a pandemic.

+1

"Mental health" or something probably

Everyone can understand concerns re bars/restaurants but there are many facets to this argument. Dismissing "mental health" as a concern and/or trivialising it, makes no sense

I think the big problem is charlatans in business representative bodies citing mental health as the main reason to not lock down when it is clearly of no importance to them and a convenient excuse.

It does people with real mental health problems absolutely no good whatsoever to have pricks use the issue for their own ends with scant regards for those that will feel the long term fallout.


Saffrongael's comments may not have been meant to disregard the issue - but you can be damn sure there are more than a few people elsewhere that'll roll their eyes when people mention mental health as a result of whats gone on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 04, 2020, 05:28:10 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 04, 2020, 10:12:05 AM
Churches in the north can reopen and will be judged individually in terms of capacity.

another stupid mistake to add to the long list of stupid mistakes the executive have made.

But two (or two thousand) wrongs don't make a right.

Churches should clearly be closed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 04, 2020, 05:29:29 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 04, 2020, 05:25:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 04:42:29 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55192562

Lovely.
Ssshh.

Did the professors on here not tell Methody kids can't get it or spread it?

[Seriously though - secondary schools should have transitioned to online learning in the first lockdown and stayed that way. Peter Weir and his department are pathetically stupid and useless.]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 05:44:55 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 04, 2020, 05:29:29 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 04, 2020, 05:25:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 04:42:29 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55192562

Lovely.
Ssshh.

Did the professors on here not tell Methody kids can't get it or spread it?

[Seriously though - secondary schools should have transitioned to online learning in the first lockdown and stayed that way. Peter Weir and his department are pathetically stupid and useless.]

Schools should have been locked down with the rest.

Ridiculous decision. They must have thought they were going to get away with it ri Xmas.

Watch that story vanish in next few hours.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 04, 2020, 05:52:37 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on December 04, 2020, 04:53:22 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 04, 2020, 04:08:41 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 04, 2020, 04:05:53 PM
Economy aside. I still don't understand why people would want to sit in a confined space bar or restaurant umasked with a crowd for a prolonged period during a pandemic.

+1

"Mental health" or something probably

Everyone can understand concerns re bars/restaurants but there are many facets to this argument. Dismissing "mental health" as a concern and/or trivialising it, makes no sense
Pandemics pay no heed to mental health
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 04, 2020, 05:58:49 PM
It has quite clearly been rife in schools is the thing but it just seems unspoken.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on December 04, 2020, 06:04:05 PM
All the schools in Cavan are open but the Covid rates here have been falling like a stone for weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 04, 2020, 06:12:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 04, 2020, 05:58:49 PM
It has quite clearly been rife in schools is the thing but it just seems unspoken.
The elephant in the room that is rarely discussed in a meaningful way. A bit of Omerta in operation from what i can gather from discussions with my older kids.  What will the history books say?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 04, 2020, 06:52:13 PM
What sort of schools have ye in the North at all?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 04, 2020, 07:18:20 PM
You can reduce Covid without closing schools in 26 of the 32 counties, no reason that you cannot do so in the other 6 as well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: michaelg on December 04, 2020, 07:22:00 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 04:42:29 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55192562

Lovely.
What you mean by that comment?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on December 04, 2020, 08:11:43 PM
Wonder if schools have different guidelines in south?

Anyone sneezes here and we're emptying classes.*

*exaggerated
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 08:20:04 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 04, 2020, 07:22:00 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 04:42:29 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55192562

Lovely.
What you mean by that comment?

Not what you think I meant anyway, I can assure you.

It was in reference to my previous yapping about how schools should have been closed when everything else was closed for the 2 weeks here in the North. Absolutely nothing else.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: michaelg on December 04, 2020, 08:29:28 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 08:20:04 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 04, 2020, 07:22:00 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 04, 2020, 04:42:29 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55192562

Lovely.
What you mean by that comment?

Not what you think I meant anyway, I can assure you.

It was in reference to my previous yapping about how schools should have been closed when everything else was closed for the 2 weeks here in the North. Absolutely nothing else.
Fair enough.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: FermGael on December 04, 2020, 08:59:14 PM
The big difference between the North and the South has been leadership.
In the North we had Sinn Fein and the Bobby Storey fiasco.  Then, so they were not undone , Edwin decided that the Coruna Virus was a Catholic virus.
In the South , they locked down properly the second time and early and for longer . Essential shops were exactly that. Up North, you will find a load of shops still open. Unbelievable how many are now selling essential items but this means they can keep the rest of the shop open as they are selling a few nails and a bit of bed linen in the corner .
Up North they gave a weeks notice before the 2 week lockdown. This explains why the numbers have not dropped here and have in fact risen.
No doubt that both the North and the South will see a rise in cases over and past Christmas. They key difference is that the South has the work done and their rise will be manageable . That will not be the case in the North.  It will be a diaster .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 04, 2020, 10:08:33 PM
Quote from: FermGael on December 04, 2020, 08:59:14 PM
The big difference between the North and the South has been leadership.
In the North we had Sinn Fein and the Bobby Storey fiasco.  Then, so they were not undone , Edwin decided that the Coruna Virus was a Catholic virus.
In the South , they locked down properly the second time and early and for longer . Essential shops were exactly that. Up North, you will find a load of shops still open. Unbelievable how many are now selling essential items but this means they can keep the rest of the shop open as they are selling a few nails and a bit of bed linen in the corner .
Up North they gave a weeks notice before the 2 week lockdown. This explains why the numbers have not dropped here and have in fact risen.
No doubt that both the North and the South will see a rise in cases over and past Christmas. They key difference is that the South has the work done and their rise will be manageable . That will not be the case in the North.  It will be a diaster .

Leadership eh? Where's the leadership from both shower of pricks, when NINE MONTHS down the line, both jurisdictions still haven't  had joint up thinking on the pandemic?

One opens up, the other shuts, that sort of crap still has repercussions for both areas, especially around border areas. They've had f**king NINE MONTHS!!! Un-f**king-forgivable!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on December 04, 2020, 10:16:38 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 04, 2020, 10:08:33 PM
Quote from: FermGael on December 04, 2020, 08:59:14 PM
The big difference between the North and the South has been leadership.
In the North we had Sinn Fein and the Bobby Storey fiasco.  Then, so they were not undone , Edwin decided that the Coruna Virus was a Catholic virus.
In the South , they locked down properly the second time and early and for longer . Essential shops were exactly that. Up North, you will find a load of shops still open. Unbelievable how many are now selling essential items but this means they can keep the rest of the shop open as they are selling a few nails and a bit of bed linen in the corner .
Up North they gave a weeks notice before the 2 week lockdown. This explains why the numbers have not dropped here and have in fact risen.
No doubt that both the North and the South will see a rise in cases over and past Christmas. They key difference is that the South has the work done and their rise will be manageable . That will not be the case in the North.  It will be a diaster .

Leadership eh? Where's the leadership from both shower of pricks, when NINE MONTHS down the line, both jurisdictions still haven't  had joint up thinking on the pandemic?

One opens up, the other shuts, that sort of crap still has repercussions for both areas, especially around border areas. They've had f**king NINE MONTHS!!! Un-f**king-forgivable!!

Do you think the DUP are going to look towards Dublin in terms of the rules and regulations etc?

If so, you're badly misguided.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: FermGael on December 04, 2020, 10:40:34 PM
The DUP look towards Dublin ?
No chance that will happen.

The DUP look to London for leadership.
Sinn Fein look to Dublin.
Never the two will meet
That's the issue in a nutshell.

Complete agree with border issues.
Enniskillen has been rammed for a month .
Asda will have record profits again in Newry and Enniskillen.

My point may have been lost
The South did a proper second lockdown
The north delayed and did a half arsed job which is why we have so many infections.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 04, 2020, 11:12:28 PM
Have the Dublin government no blame in this?

I didn't see them doing too much to team up with the North.

I mean, if Seamy Bryson can see an All Ireland approach is the only option...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 04, 2020, 11:15:46 PM
Quote from: FermGael on December 04, 2020, 08:59:14 PM
The big difference between the North and the South has been leadership.
In the North we had Sinn Fein and the Bobby Storey fiasco.  Then, so they were not undone , Edwin decided that the Coruna Virus was a Catholic virus.
In the South , they locked down properly the second time and early and for longer . Essential shops were exactly that. Up North, you will find a load of shops still open. Unbelievable how many are now selling essential items but this means they can keep the rest of the shop open as they are selling a few nails and a bit of bed linen in the corner .
Up North they gave a weeks notice before the 2 week lockdown. This explains why the numbers have not dropped here and have in fact risen.
No doubt that both the North and the South will see a rise in cases over and past Christmas. They key difference is that the South has the work done and their rise will be manageable . That will not be the case in the North.  It will be a diaster .

The south has done OK and a bit of a boost over Xmas will not lead to outright disaster, it can be dampened down again

(https://i.postimg.cc/s21Gv9Rr/eurocovidhospitalisation.png)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 05, 2020, 12:04:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 04, 2020, 11:12:28 PM
Have the Dublin government no blame in this?

Very little blame on Dublin IMO.

How do you try and manage a partnership with Stormont when they cannot even manage themselves?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 05, 2020, 12:15:48 PM
I would say none. Why would you align or share a "strategy" when they are falling out, making it a sectarian issue and making decisions at the very last minute.

Sure numbers have got no better yet they are lifting half the lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on December 05, 2020, 12:20:36 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 05, 2020, 12:04:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 04, 2020, 11:12:28 PM
Have the Dublin government no blame in this?

Very little blame on Dublin IMO.

How do you try and manage a partnership with Stormont when they cannot even manage themselves?

Do you think there was going to be harmony?

If so, you're not tuned in.

SF/SDLP look to Dublin, while the DUP/UUP look to London for guidance on covid.

With that outlook, there was never going to be agreement and all those people who say, Stormont is a mess would be the same people complaining if SF/SDLP would say we're following London's model.

It's a no-win situation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 05, 2020, 12:36:25 PM
We are not on an island with London, so the London model is not relevant.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 05, 2020, 12:48:20 PM
Everyone knows that but the dup. They would sooner rot than follow Dublin.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on December 05, 2020, 09:10:52 PM
FF and FG would rather enter a coalition together than share info with SF, even in a pandemic. The DUP and SF in the north have both stated from the beginning they had been disappointed that formation had not been shared in relation to lockdowns and strategy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 05, 2020, 09:48:32 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on December 05, 2020, 09:10:52 PM
FF and FG would rather enter a coalition together than share info with SF, even in a pandemic. The DUP and SF in the north have both stated from the beginning they had been disappointed that formation had not been shared in relation to lockdowns and strategy.

How could they have cooperated with Stormont? Swann stopped testing contracts on 11 March without any discussion with Dublin and later left all the shops open in Derry even when it was one of the worst places.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on December 06, 2020, 08:37:49 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 05, 2020, 09:48:32 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on December 05, 2020, 09:10:52 PM
FF and FG would rather enter a coalition together than share info with SF, even in a pandemic. The DUP and SF in the north have both stated from the beginning they had been disappointed that formation had not been shared in relation to lockdowns and strategy.

How could they have cooperated with Stormont? Swann stopped testing contracts on 11 March without any discussion with Dublin and later left all the shops open in Derry even when it was one of the worst places.

Have any decisions been made in Dublin without reference to Stormont?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 06, 2020, 06:19:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 05, 2020, 09:48:32 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on December 05, 2020, 09:10:52 PM
FF and FG would rather enter a coalition together than share info with SF, even in a pandemic. The DUP and SF in the north have both stated from the beginning they had been disappointed that formation had not been shared in relation to lockdowns and strategy.

How could they have cooperated with Stormont? Swann stopped testing contracts on 11 March without any discussion with Dublin and later left all the shops open in Derry even when it was one of the worst places.

And Swann getting praised too the whole way through it. I don't see what they see.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on December 06, 2020, 06:57:09 PM
Weekly update for the ROI.

Cases 2050 (220 more than last week)
Reported Deaths 49 (19 more than last week)

In hospital 231 (26 less than last week)
In ICU 28 ( 2 less than last week)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on December 08, 2020, 08:30:47 AM
"One small p***k for woman, one large p***k for womankind"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on December 09, 2020, 09:54:47 AM
4 Days trying to get a repeat perscription from my local doctor, not answering phone, just due to covid this, covid that. E-mailed in perscription details, looking for payment over the phone, but still not answering. I'm hurting now, I need the meds.

I know of 2 lads that have killed themselves due to Covid, for balance I also know a lad in his late 40's who has died of Covid, he had mild diabetes.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 09, 2020, 11:17:30 AM
Quote from: Rudi on December 09, 2020, 09:54:47 AM
4 Days trying to get a repeat perscription from my local doctor, not answering phone, just due to covid this, covid that. E-mailed in perscription details, looking for payment over the phone, but still not answering. I'm hurting now, I need the meds.

This is the point. If you run the health service flat out by sending it a rake of extra Covid patients, then the strain will show in various ways. It isn't much fun for the GPs and their staff either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 09, 2020, 11:24:07 AM
Alternatively they could be using covid to take the complete piss, akin to our public sector workers in general.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 09, 2020, 11:27:43 AM
Quote from: Rudi on December 09, 2020, 09:54:47 AM
4 Days trying to get a repeat perscription from my local doctor, not answering phone, just due to covid this, covid that. E-mailed in perscription details, looking for payment over the phone, but still not answering. I'm hurting now, I need the meds.

I know of 2 lads that have killed themselves due to Covid, for balance I also know a lad in his late 40's who has died of Covid, he had mild diabetes.

These are things the moral guardians of the board do not want to here, i.e. the truth. Covid has been a scourge the real scourge though have been failed lockdowns, mental health issues, missed appointments, abuse, job loses all to "save the health system being overrun" when all the predicted figures have all been wrong and nightingale hospitals have been lying empty.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 09, 2020, 12:05:04 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 09, 2020, 11:27:43 AM
Quote from: Rudi on December 09, 2020, 09:54:47 AM
4 Days trying to get a repeat perscription from my local doctor, not answering phone, just due to covid this, covid that. E-mailed in perscription details, looking for payment over the phone, but still not answering. I'm hurting now, I need the meds.

I know of 2 lads that have killed themselves due to Covid, for balance I also know a lad in his late 40's who has died of Covid, he had mild diabetes.

These are things the moral guardians of the board do not want to here, i.e. the truth. Covid has been a scourge the real scourge though have been failed lockdowns, mental health issues, missed appointments, abuse, job loses all to "save the health system being overrun" when all the predicted figures have all been wrong and nightingale hospitals have been lying empty.

Your grasping. No one has denied the knock on effects of covid or the lockdowns. They've been debated here extensively. In the absence of a proper T&T system, and a public that obviously didn't take take all the precautions required, lock downs were going to be inevitable as numbers rose. Lock downs are a last resort.
Thankfully there's a vaccine now that should limit the impact of Covid going forward and the economic recovery can start. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 09, 2020, 01:11:52 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1209/1183310-coronavirus-vaccine/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 09, 2020, 01:20:22 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 09, 2020, 01:11:52 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1209/1183310-coronavirus-vaccine/

Go on to the vaccine thread this is nothing, dublin7 and milhouse said so - day 1 and we have issues, who would have thought!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on December 09, 2020, 01:54:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 09, 2020, 11:17:30 AM
Quote from: Rudi on December 09, 2020, 09:54:47 AM
4 Days trying to get a repeat perscription from my local doctor, not answering phone, just due to covid this, covid that. E-mailed in perscription details, looking for payment over the phone, but still not answering. I'm hurting now, I need the meds.

This is the point. If you run the health service flat out by sending it a rake of extra Covid patients, then the strain will show in various ways. It isn't much fun for the GPs and their staff either.

GP's are doing referals, not much else. The real doctors are in the hospitals. I had to call down to the facility in the end to get thing moving.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on December 09, 2020, 01:58:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 09, 2020, 01:11:52 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1209/1183310-coronavirus-vaccine/

QuoteThe patient information leaflet with the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine says it should not be given to people allergic to any substance in the vaccine.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/09/pfizer-covid-vaccine-nhs-extreme-allergy-sufferers-regulators-reaction

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 09, 2020, 04:36:58 PM
484 new cases from tests on 3,220 individuals in the 6 counties.
Numbers not going down much and that is a shocking positivity rate, they are obviously not testing anywhere near enough people.
Also 12 deaths recorded in Northern Ireland, 7 occurring during past 24 hours. This also suggests that they are doing a poor job of identifying cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 09, 2020, 04:47:16 PM
It's ok.... it's taking christmas off :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 09, 2020, 04:53:14 PM
People have no time to worry about Covid. There's shopping for Christmas pyjamas and Kylie perfume to be bought!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 09, 2020, 04:56:45 PM
The clowns in the north have lost it and don't know what to do
4 week lockdown them let things rip for a week followed by a 2 week circuit breaker
The health secretary only after saying people going out to shop from Friday will be risking having to self isolate over Christmas and that nobody wants that. But ok fire the kids onto school
They have lost it and don't know what to do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 09, 2020, 04:58:40 PM
I'm not happy to see South Armagh rise up the Covid league table, it is almost as bad as East Tyrone and Ballymena, places we have nothing in common with.

Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 09, 2020, 04:56:45 PM
The clowns in the north have lost it and don't know what to do

Not often that I agree with you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 09, 2020, 05:01:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 09, 2020, 04:58:40 PM
I'm not happy to see South Armagh rise up the Covid league table, it is almost as bad as East Tyrone and Ballymena, places we have nothing in common with.

Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 09, 2020, 04:56:45 PM
The clowns in the north have lost it and don't know what to do

Not often that I agree with you.

Well....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 09, 2020, 05:52:38 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 09, 2020, 04:56:45 PM
The clowns in the north have lost it and don't know what to do
4 week lockdown them let things rip for a week followed by a 2 week circuit breaker
The health secretary only after saying people going out to shop from Friday will be risking having to self isolate over Christmas and that nobody wants that. But ok fire the kids onto school
They have lost it and don't know what to do.

Wains should be at school
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 09, 2020, 06:00:07 PM
Schools weren't a problem in the 26.
227 cases here today - equivalent to around 75 in the North.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 09, 2020, 06:39:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 09, 2020, 05:52:38 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 09, 2020, 04:56:45 PM
The clowns in the north have lost it and don't know what to do
4 week lockdown them let things rip for a week followed by a 2 week circuit breaker
The health secretary only after saying people going out to shop from Friday will be risking having to self isolate over Christmas and that nobody wants that. But ok fire the kids onto school
They have lost it and don't know what to do.

Wains should be at school

Defeated the purpose of a total lockdown to let 1/5th of the North mix freely, daily in classrooms in the middle of it and take whatever home.

Two weeks wouldn't have done them any harm off. Infact, it's proving quite the opposite.

It's becoming a bit of a joke now that people are refusing to accept there is an issue in the schools.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on December 09, 2020, 07:12:03 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 09, 2020, 06:39:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 09, 2020, 05:52:38 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 09, 2020, 04:56:45 PM
The clowns in the north have lost it and don't know what to do
4 week lockdown them let things rip for a week followed by a 2 week circuit breaker
The health secretary only after saying people going out to shop from Friday will be risking having to self isolate over Christmas and that nobody wants that. But ok fire the kids onto school
They have lost it and don't know what to do.

Wains should be at school

Defeated the purpose of a total lockdown to let 1/5th of the North mix freely, daily in classrooms in the middle of it and take whatever home.

Two weeks wouldn't have done them any harm off. Infact, it's proving quite the opposite.

It's becoming a bit of a joke now that people are refusing to accept there is an issue in the schools.

Dont mention ze schools GOTB!

Mind you the week where everyone could go shopping before lockdown is bound to be showing in these numbers.
Another brainwave
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 09, 2020, 07:17:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 09, 2020, 06:00:07 PM
Schools weren't a problem in the 26.
227 cases here today - equivalent to around 75 in the North.

Maybe you weren't paying attention during the sums at school, this is more like 88 in the 6 counties, so the latter is only 5.5 times worse!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 09, 2020, 07:21:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 09, 2020, 07:17:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 09, 2020, 06:00:07 PM
Schools weren't a problem in the 26.
227 cases here today - equivalent to around 75 in the North.

Maybe you weren't paying attention during the sums at school, this is more like 88 in the 6 counties, so the latter is only 5.5 times worse!

What's the hospitalised figures? How many ventilators are left?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 09, 2020, 07:35:32 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 09, 2020, 06:39:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 09, 2020, 05:52:38 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 09, 2020, 04:56:45 PM
The clowns in the north have lost it and don't know what to do
4 week lockdown them let things rip for a week followed by a 2 week circuit breaker
The health secretary only after saying people going out to shop from Friday will be risking having to self isolate over Christmas and that nobody wants that. But ok fire the kids onto school
They have lost it and don't know what to do.

Wains should be at school

Defeated the purpose of a total lockdown to let 1/5th of the North mix freely, daily in classrooms in the middle of it and take whatever home.

Two weeks wouldn't have done them any harm off. Infact, it's proving quite the opposite.

It's becoming a bit of a joke now that people are refusing to accept there is an issue in the schools.

No evidence
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 09, 2020, 07:38:48 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 09, 2020, 07:35:32 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 09, 2020, 06:39:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 09, 2020, 05:52:38 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 09, 2020, 04:56:45 PM
The clowns in the north have lost it and don't know what to do
4 week lockdown them let things rip for a week followed by a 2 week circuit breaker
The health secretary only after saying people going out to shop from Friday will be risking having to self isolate over Christmas and that nobody wants that. But ok fire the kids onto school
They have lost it and don't know what to do.

Wains should be at school

Defeated the purpose of a total lockdown to let 1/5th of the North mix freely, daily in classrooms in the middle of it and take whatever home.

Two weeks wouldn't have done them any harm off. Infact, it's proving quite the opposite.

It's becoming a bit of a joke now that people are refusing to accept there is an issue in the schools.

No evidence

Christ, it was only last week 50 were positive and 500 odd were sent home from Methodist

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 09, 2020, 08:33:24 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 09, 2020, 07:38:48 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 09, 2020, 07:35:32 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 09, 2020, 06:39:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 09, 2020, 05:52:38 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 09, 2020, 04:56:45 PM
The clowns in the north have lost it and don't know what to do
4 week lockdown them let things rip for a week followed by a 2 week circuit breaker
The health secretary only after saying people going out to shop from Friday will be risking having to self isolate over Christmas and that nobody wants that. But ok fire the kids onto school
They have lost it and don't know what to do.

Wains should be at school

Defeated the purpose of a total lockdown to let 1/5th of the North mix freely, daily in classrooms in the middle of it and take whatever home.

Two weeks wouldn't have done them any harm off. Infact, it's proving quite the opposite.

It's becoming a bit of a joke now that people are refusing to accept there is an issue in the schools.

No evidence

Christ, it was only last week 50 were positive and 500 odd were sent home from Methodist

Drop in the ocean especially when weighed against benefits . No evidence it contributed to hospital figures We had 100 plus in factory not a peep . To be honest each to their own seems to be the guidance now over next few weeks with schools. I'll making sure my wains are there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 09, 2020, 09:15:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 09, 2020, 08:33:24 PM
No evidence it contributed to hospital figures

Yes, because its clear they cannot pass it on - self evident really by how much its clear it doesn't spread in schools.

... and because they cannot pass it on, their parents or grandparents will definitely not catch it and definitely not end up in hospital.

Regarding the factory, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


The problem with democracy is everyone's opinion is equal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 09, 2020, 09:54:24 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 09, 2020, 09:15:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 09, 2020, 08:33:24 PM
No evidence it contributed to hospital figures

Yes, because its clear they cannot pass it on - self evident really by how much its clear it doesn't spread in schools.

... and because they cannot pass it on, their parents or grandparents will definitely not catch it and definitely not end up in hospital.

Regarding the factory, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


The problem with democracy is everyone's opinion is equal.

Not sure what you are saying there but sounds good anyhow
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 10, 2020, 09:20:35 AM
Nobody is arguing that children should be denied education. But since the North especially has this issue with the same numbers, no matter what it seems to do. Would it not have been prudent to take the step of closing the schools for 2 weeks when everything else done it? (Remember in summer.....there was hardly a death for weeks, seems so far away now).

It just seems ludicrous at this stage absolutely everything else of any risk is immediately closed. But we stay silent and accept that schools are basically the staging point for Covid spread now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on December 10, 2020, 10:40:13 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 10, 2020, 09:20:35 AM
Nobody is arguing that children should be denied education. But since the North especially has this issue with the same numbers, no matter what it seems to do. Would it not have been prudent to take the step of closing the schools for 2 weeks when everything else done it? (Remember in summer.....there was hardly a death for weeks, seems so far away now).

It just seems ludicrous at this stage absolutely everything else of any risk is immediately closed. But we stay silent and accept that schools are basically the staging point for Covid spread now?

If the schools were off how would you propose they be looked after for those not fortunate enough to work at home or don't have childcare available to them from 9 until 330 every day.  Even for those that are working at home how are they supposed to do their job and look after / home teach their children ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 10, 2020, 10:54:37 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on December 10, 2020, 10:40:13 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 10, 2020, 09:20:35 AM
Nobody is arguing that children should be denied education. But since the North especially has this issue with the same numbers, no matter what it seems to do. Would it not have been prudent to take the step of closing the schools for 2 weeks when everything else done it? (Remember in summer.....there was hardly a death for weeks, seems so far away now).

It just seems ludicrous at this stage absolutely everything else of any risk is immediately closed. But we stay silent and accept that schools are basically the staging point for Covid spread now?

If the schools were off how would you propose they be looked after for those not fortunate enough to work at home or don't have childcare available to them from 9 until 330 every day.  Even for those that are working at home how are they supposed to do their job and look after / home teach their children ?

It's not a perfect world at the moment. But your question is essentially saying, let them stay at school and continue the spread because there is a headache at home. The vast majority of the public were meant to be at home for those two weeks - that's all I'm saying they should have been at home for.

To every solution there is exemptions of course. Lockdown upon lockdown isn't working. And we aren't even out of the current one and the Health Minister appears to be keen on getting another set of restrictions in place. You either do a full lockdown, right. Or you are wasting your time. As it looks like we have been.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 10, 2020, 11:06:45 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 09, 2020, 07:38:48 PM
Christ, it was only last week 50 were positive and 500 odd were sent home from Methodist

Closing schools with a significant number of cases seems a perfectly logical move, but does not justify closing schools with no cases.

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 09, 2020, 09:15:39 PM
The problem with democracy is everyone's opinion is equal.

Medical opinion, which actually has the detailed data on this, is of the opinion that schools are not the primary mode of transmission. Of course closing schools would be appropriate if you had other strict measures at the same time, but the measures in the6 counties have never been all that strict in recent months. However, there is merit in saying that a proper video learning plan should be introduced for secondary students for a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 10, 2020, 11:08:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 10, 2020, 10:54:37 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on December 10, 2020, 10:40:13 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 10, 2020, 09:20:35 AM
Nobody is arguing that children should be denied education. But since the North especially has this issue with the same numbers, no matter what it seems to do. Would it not have been prudent to take the step of closing the schools for 2 weeks when everything else done it? (Remember in summer.....there was hardly a death for weeks, seems so far away now).

It just seems ludicrous at this stage absolutely everything else of any risk is immediately closed. But we stay silent and accept that schools are basically the staging point for Covid spread now?



It's not a perfect world at the moment. But your question is essentially saying, let them stay at school and continue the spread because there is a headache at home. The vast majority of the public were meant to be at home for those two weeks - that's all I'm saying they should have been at home for.

To every solution there is exemptions of course. Lockdown upon lockdown isn't working. And we aren't even out of the current one and the Health Minister appears to be keen on getting another set of restrictions in place. You either do a full lockdown, right. Or you are wasting your time. As it looks like we have been.

We should have followed the ROI in closing all bar the schools and we could have had some piece of mind heading into christmas instead of the shitshow we have had and continiue to have in the North.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 10, 2020, 11:50:43 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 10, 2020, 11:06:45 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 09, 2020, 07:38:48 PM
Christ, it was only last week 50 were positive and 500 odd were sent home from Methodist

QuoteClosing schools with a significant number of cases seems a perfectly logical move, but does not justify closing schools with no cases.

Fair enough point, but you know as do I. We are now in the territory where people are going to get isolation notices over next few days that leaves them isolating over Xmas and they'll just point blank ignore them. I think it's very fool hardy to suggest otherwise now.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on December 10, 2020, 03:42:36 PM
The O6 don't have the finances enforce a proper lockdown. Stormont is shambolic on two fronts, a) unionism and its unwillingness to compromise b) real power lies in Westminister. The business supports aren't there for small businesses and workers and Westminister don't give a toss. That's always been the way, Stormont has limited power to do anything and when you square that off with DUP/UUP bigots and dinosaurs then forget about it.

The death rates are high and new cases are steady for nigh on 3 months now. But we are never given the full information. We hear of 14 deaths on one day but who are these 14 deaths?

The historic data shows the vast majority of people who die from this are in really bad health, if you tested positive for Covid and died within an arbitrary period after this does not mean Covid was the reason you die but yet you're added to the death count.

If we're going to be hearing about death counts on a daily basis then it should be in the public interest to show us of the people who are the ones that are dying from it. The people who need to be careful and who we need to be extra cautious around.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 10, 2020, 04:22:32 PM
Over 400 today again but with ~twice the number of tests. The number in hospitals / ICU seems to be kind of flatlining however I guess with people having passed away that still means more coming in  :(

I was speaking to a doctor who was saying that even case numbers are not that relevant - it's more the fact that from the hospitals perspective it is just constant.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 10, 2020, 05:11:07 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 10, 2020, 04:22:32 PM
Over 400 today again but with ~twice the number of tests. The number in hospitals / ICU seems to be kind of flatlining however I guess with people having passed away that still means more coming in  :(

I was speaking to a doctor who was saying that even case numbers are not that relevant - it's more the fact that from the hospitals perspective it is just constant.

Constant, at a high level where hospitals remain under pressure and are not doing their regular business.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eo4hVBFXcAUVF0o?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 10, 2020, 05:15:42 PM
And that table basically proves the school thing....look at the dates.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 10, 2020, 05:21:24 PM
It is very clearly the elephant in the room. I have said that for ages. I am not sure what to do about it mind.

Did nz shut schools?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: FermGael on December 10, 2020, 07:46:58 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55265098  (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55265098)

How ? Surely it's scientifically impossible for children to spread it ....
Schools are safe ....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 11, 2020, 01:32:23 AM
Quote from: FermGael on December 10, 2020, 07:46:58 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55265098  (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55265098)

How ? Surely it's scientifically impossible for children to spread it ....
Schools are safe ....

Schools can of course spread it, but they do not drive it.
The increase in September was probably more down to Third Level and these students will no go back all over the country and spread it again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 11, 2020, 07:09:59 AM
How can you be sure of that statement?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on December 11, 2020, 07:19:08 AM
He can't be. It's form of social conditioning in action.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 11, 2020, 08:15:40 AM
The fact remains that most counties in Ireland have a lowish Covid rate by European standards and their schools have been open since September.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 11, 2020, 08:28:59 AM
That doesn't mean they don't drive it in the north.

Maybe they don't and universities are another variable but I don't know how you can be sure of that. The growth in the north does suspiciously correlate to school timings. (Yes there are many other variables like time of year, universities, maybe less lockdown *at times* but I don't see how it can be point blank ignored.)

Also we had a one year old who tested positive from a small cough. Now that seemed innocuous and came to nothing for anyone in the nursery / house however he tested positive from a cough. Kids are being sent home from different schools with more symptoms than a cough, not being tested and then going back in within the next day or two. I know of a few instances of that and based on my own experience then if you have that kind of thing you should definitely get tested as you could be in for a hell of a surprise. Tolerances like that will spread things a lot surely? Now not all schools are like that I am sure but some definitely are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on December 11, 2020, 08:32:20 AM
Facts, huh?

The fact remains that Covid doesn't differentiate between 16 year olds who work on sites, 16 year olds who have part time jobs in Tesco and 16 year olds who are lucky enough to concentrate solely on school.

The fact also remains that the majority of juveniles who are infected, would never be aware of their infection unless a colleague / friend fails a test, thereby entering them into the system.

What isn't a fact is your perception of figures. Schools had to remain open to ensure the economy could tick over. By either request or need, the media and the health authorities have done whatever they can to deflect attention form schools. You have been asked, by osmosis, to join in with this deflection. And you're compliant.

—-

By the way it's possible, like me, to both acknowledge that schools are necessary during these times, and a major cause of spread. This is not a juxtaposition.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 11, 2020, 08:35:06 AM
QuoteBy the way it's possible, like me, to both acknowledge that schools are necessary during these times, and a major cause of spread. This is not a juxtaposition.

I would strongly agree with that statement.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 11, 2020, 08:35:16 AM
If you are calling for more testing then that is a no brainer. Better to test and close particular schools and classes than close the whole lot to save yourself the trouble of testing them. In this pandemic the only alternative to general lockdown and closures is targeted closure driven by actual data.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 11, 2020, 08:44:32 AM
More testing and more open mindedness to the fact that schools could potentially be a source of spreading because IMO there are too many that think they just can't be and I don't mean you I mean people in "authority".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 11, 2020, 09:02:49 AM
I've stated previously there is a bit of an Omerta going on in schools, I totally believe that but I accept it's a necessary evil. If mass testing was brought into schools they'd all be be shut down if they followed guidance to the letter of the law ' even in the ROI which apparently is the bestest in the whole world.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 11, 2020, 09:17:03 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 11, 2020, 09:02:49 AM
I've stated previously there is a bit of an Omerta going on in schools, I totally believe that but I accept it's a necessary evil. If mass testing was brought into schools they'd all be be shut down if they followed guidance to the letter of the law ' even in the ROI which apparently is the bestest in the whole world.

Don't you feel slightly insulted however when it's the biggest open secret in the country and our Health Minister stands in front of the media and says people didn't stay in during the 2 week lockdown?

Schools all around here my way now are falling, teachers I know / Know of are taking to twitter to express their concerns about positive tests, schools being closed and having to isolate over Xmas. Looks like the whole thing is starting to crumble really.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 11, 2020, 09:38:40 AM
Unfortunately it crumbled a long time ago.  :(

Relaxing lockdown so people can go shopping and then telling people who go shopping they may have to self isolate. You couldn't make it up.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 11, 2020, 09:46:08 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 10, 2020, 04:22:32 PM
Over 400 today again but with ~twice the number of tests. The number in hospitals / ICU seems to be kind of flatlining however I guess with people having passed away that still means more coming in  :(

I was speaking to a doctor who was saying that even case numbers are not that relevant - it's more the fact that from the hospitals perspective it is just constant.

Jesus you are a brave man saying you have a doctor mate - all these folks know more than your supposedly doctor mate!!  :o ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 12, 2020, 08:37:02 AM
Question
And please just gives answers
The day Wales went into lockdown over 7 weeks ago
206 cases per 100k
Now today and still in lockdown 409 per 100k
Explain that ??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on December 12, 2020, 10:56:10 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 12, 2020, 08:37:02 AM
Question
And please just gives answers
The day Wales went into lockdown over 7 weeks ago
206 cases per 100k
Now today and still in lockdown 409 per 100k
Explain that ??

There are so many "stats " out there of varying relevance , open to interpretation and must be contextualised.
The contrast between north and south on the same island is worth exploration in itself, why is ROI doing much better? Is it possible that the clear  unified messages from impressive leaders across the medical/scientific and political spectrum in ROI continues to engage and motivate the population. Whilst the daily negative scaremongering from a well meaning but mournful Robin Swann and lack of unified approach in NI and in UK , has resulted in population "switch off" in the North

Regarding the Wales stat above , you can only say lockdown wasn't worthwhile,  if you could do a trial of same number of cases, in two comparable areas , lock one area down , and don't lock the other area, and see how they end up. Though I share frustration around the limits of evidence behind lockdown, nobody's going to be brave enough not to lockdown and "let 'er rip"
What we do know from simple mathematics , as opposed to medical science , is that if you want to arrest spread, , lockdown early before exponential growth takes hold. This approach from the start could have let to shorter more effective lockdowns. In short the Wales figures above probably show that they locked too late, rather than lockdown wasn't worthwhile . If they didn't lockdown and figures went up to say 1000/100000 a historically underfunded NHS couldn't cope .
At the very start of this pandemic I remember the WHO saying the 3 best ways to beat this were: Test, Test,Test!
If you keep numbers low from the start and aggressively detect and isolate spikes  , it would be much easier to motivate people to comply.
If you procrastinate, and daily feed negativity, and inconsistent messages ( the Ni approach) , !the population switches off.
Having said that, we are where we are, opening up at Christmas with a myriad of rules is fraught with danger. The only logic in this , I imagine , is to give people a breather in the hope that they will better be able to comply in January , and hope the NHS can cope with the likely surge.
Mass Vaccine uptake and roll out , will hopefully see us in a different place by March, April
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2020, 11:17:38 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 12, 2020, 08:37:02 AM
Question
And please just gives answers
The day Wales went into lockdown over 7 weeks ago
206 cases per 100k
Now today and still in lockdown 409 per 100k
Explain that ??

How many tests are being carried out?

What's the figures for hospitalisation?

How many are dying?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on December 12, 2020, 11:24:17 AM
Quote from: Seaney on December 11, 2020, 09:46:08 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 10, 2020, 04:22:32 PM
Over 400 today again but with ~twice the number of tests. The number in hospitals / ICU seems to be kind of flatlining however I guess with people having passed away that still means more coming in  :(

I was speaking to a doctor who was saying that even case numbers are not that relevant - it's more the fact that from the hospitals perspective it is just constant.

Jesus you are a brave man saying you have a doctor mate - all these folks know more than your supposedly doctor mate!!  :o ::)

Twisting the narrative again Seany. There's a surprise. If someone offers an opinion of a medical doctor them that person has some experience in the area and can have valid points.

When chemical engineers offer expert opinions on vaccines and medical matters then their opinion is less likely to be taken seriously, especially when the stats they put forward for the success rates of vaccines are wrong and/or complete nonsense
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 12, 2020, 11:55:21 AM
Also it's a pretty uncontroversial opinion when you only seem to favour controversial ones ;D

On the test test test 605k in the north have been tested with just over 1 million tests. That's about a third of the population is it not? Interesting to see so many people getting retested.

Interesting to see when lockdowns don't work. The south's has done pretty well and places like New Zealand and a few others have done well with lockdowns. I can only speak for here but the lockdown has been half assed with very little decisiveness on decisions. Wales may or may not have been like that? I don't think here or quite frankly most of the uk are a case study in lockdowns with the current governments. Even with medical or scientific advice the politicians seem to think they know better so I don't even know it's necessarily the advice they're getting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Denn Forever on December 12, 2020, 11:56:24 AM
Now a new flu identified in China.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53218704
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 12, 2020, 12:23:28 PM
Great!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on December 12, 2020, 01:00:12 PM
That articles dated 30 June hopefully not an issue or we'd know about it by now? I can only deal with one pandemic at a time
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 12, 2020, 02:13:12 PM
Deaths have stayed the same
Unsure about the testing
Genuine question
Personally I think lockdown slows the hospital admissions down so ultimately that's what they are looking
Sounds like a total lockdown in January
I think they could close certain things which would be better
Pubs and bars looks like March
Retail maybe closed for 4 weeks
Restaurants and cafes 4 weeks
Schools 2 weeks in January
Gyms and outdoor sports?? That's a tricky one
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 12, 2020, 06:20:55 PM
Tests seem to vary per day. Some days there are lower than 5k. It seems to move towards plateauing between 8 to 9k from what I see.

Interestingly 8k more individuals were tested this week (over last week) with ~39k being tested.

Someone was saying the other day that they are now making a distinction between aerobic and non aerobic exercise (e.g. Pilates / yoga).

I imagine the whole thing is stuffed in January. We all joked about Christmas off as we didn't think they'd be that ridiculous but it beginning to appear that is the case...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 13, 2020, 11:28:07 AM
Pretty damming Insight article in today's  Sunday Times about the UK Government approach to the second wave. Its a pity the masses don't see this reporting on a regular basis.

Sunak is not going to come out of this the blue eyed boy he went into as, altho as I was reading it I was wary it could be briefing against him. Cummings comes across as very much on the right side of the scientific argument and it alludes to the fact that this hastened his departure. Bojo is just a muppet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 13, 2020, 01:15:38 PM
It is notable in that article how numbers in hospital in NI and Wales are twice as high as in April.
Covid doesn't pay any heed to the needs of politicians.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on December 13, 2020, 06:04:24 PM
Weekly update for the ROI. Better this week but I'm not sure where the 429 cases came from today?

Cases 1984 (65 less than last week)
Reported Deaths 28 (21 less than last week)

In hospital 193 (38 less than last week)
In ICU 31 (3 more than a week ago)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 13, 2020, 06:34:26 PM
This may be as low as things get for now. However, if the rate of increase is kept down there is a bit of headroom over the holidays. NI with 4 times the rate has no headroom, hence they are now talking about closing up again after Xmas.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Olly on December 13, 2020, 06:45:25 PM
I went to the doctor for a postcovid checkup last month and he stuck his finger up my hole , is this normal?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on December 13, 2020, 06:49:20 PM
If it was just the one i had same so nothing to be concerned about no matter what the scientists on here tell you
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 13, 2020, 06:50:49 PM
Quote from: Olly on December 13, 2020, 06:45:25 PM
I went to the doctor for a postcovid checkup last month and he stuck his finger up my hole , is this normal?

You're in there, Olly  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Olly on December 13, 2020, 06:51:17 PM
I was shocked but have had three check ups since
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on December 13, 2020, 07:57:18 PM
Did he cup the nads at the same time
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 14, 2020, 10:01:17 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 13, 2020, 06:34:26 PM
This may be as low as things get for now. However, if the rate of increase is kept down there is a bit of headroom over the holidays. NI with 4 times the rate has no headroom, hence they are now talking about closing up again after Xmas.

Holidays won't be as bad as we think I suspect. Lots of towns aren't opening for business in Mid Ulster anyway (Gastro Bars).

Assuming there will be a rise of parties as a result of course. What can the police do? Can hardly expect them to drive around listening for noise.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 14, 2020, 10:13:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 14, 2020, 10:01:17 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 13, 2020, 06:34:26 PM
This may be as low as things get for now. However, if the rate of increase is kept down there is a bit of headroom over the holidays. NI with 4 times the rate has no headroom, hence they are now talking about closing up again after Xmas.

Holidays won't be as bad as we think I suspect. Lots of towns aren't opening for business in Mid Ulster anyway (Gastro Bars).

Assuming there will be a rise of parties as a result of course. What can the police do? Can hardly expect them to drive around listening for noise.

Seems neighbours are calling the cops, so plenty will be broken up.

We'll be having the quietest Xmas ever! Normally a huge deal for family but it'll be a bit strange this time round.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 14, 2020, 10:33:35 AM
Yeah I think most people will be the same. I would have been looking forward to this weekend coming now, getting off and seeing everyone you haven't seen for various reasons throughout the year for a few pints watching the football.

It isn't to be. The queues at the likes of Primark wind me up when I could be having a much safer few pints in the local but what can you do?

My days of house parties are over. I actually feel sorry for the police having to go and try and break up that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 15, 2020, 03:44:22 PM
How things are a few weeks before a big white hole appears in the map.

(https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/styles/is_large/public/images/w48_49_COVID_subnational_Last_2week.png?itok=I10r6BH7)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 15, 2020, 03:49:38 PM
Croatia having a rough time of it. Wonder are they doing anything differently or just a bad capture. Suppose people would still be travelling there?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 15, 2020, 04:16:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 14, 2020, 10:13:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 14, 2020, 10:01:17 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 13, 2020, 06:34:26 PM
This may be as low as things get for now. However, if the rate of increase is kept down there is a bit of headroom over the holidays. NI with 4 times the rate has no headroom, hence they are now talking about closing up again after Xmas.

Holidays won't be as bad as we think I suspect. Lots of towns aren't opening for business in Mid Ulster anyway (Gastro Bars).

Assuming there will be a rise of parties as a result of course. What can the police do? Can hardly expect them to drive around listening for noise.

Seems neighbours are calling the cops, so plenty will be broken up.

We'll be having the quietest Xmas ever! Normally a huge deal for family but it'll be a bit strange this time round.

I'd say the family are delighted they won't be seeing you.  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on December 15, 2020, 04:45:31 PM
15 ambulances currently queueing outside Antrim Area Hospital.

Director of operations has said they are providing care in the car park.

Several NI hospitals now over capacity.

The worst of this is yet to come
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 15, 2020, 04:49:43 PM
Quote from: Taylor on December 15, 2020, 04:45:31 PM
15 ambulances currently queueing outside Antrim Area Hospital.

Director of operations has said they are providing care in the car park.

Several NI hospitals now over capacity.

The worst of this is yet to come

Christmas shopping is more important.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 15, 2020, 04:54:26 PM
Quote from: Taylor on December 15, 2020, 04:45:31 PM
15 ambulances currently queueing outside Antrim Area Hospital.

Director of operations has said they are providing care in the car park.

Several NI hospitals now over capacity.

The worst of this is yet to come

Antrim area hospital is like this all year round even pre Covid!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 15, 2020, 05:29:17 PM
486 new cases in the 6 today.
Hospitals said to be at 104% occupancy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 15, 2020, 06:05:20 PM
So why has the 2 week lockdown not worked?
Cases have actually went up and hospital admissions
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2020, 06:10:49 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 15, 2020, 06:05:20 PM
So why has the 2 week lockdown not worked?
Cases have actually went up and hospital admissions

Schools and no one listening to the rules
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 15, 2020, 06:14:23 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 15, 2020, 06:05:20 PM
So why has the 2 week lockdown not worked?
Cases have actually went up and hospital admissions

Remember the wee sneaky week off were everything was allowed to open before it started?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on December 15, 2020, 06:20:10 PM
43 waiting on a bed in antrim hosp (bbc)
23 waiting in causeway....sounds not great
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 15, 2020, 06:23:33 PM
Jeepers you could be right
Milltown so what do you suggest they do? Genuine question
Because he ain't closing schools and nobody listening anymore
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2020, 06:36:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 15, 2020, 06:23:33 PM
Jeepers you could be right
Milltown so what do you suggest they do? Genuine question
Because he ain't closing schools and nobody listening anymore

It can't be half assed, the number went to zero during proper lockdown, if that's not obvious I don't know what is, and we are testing thousands more than before. 

The sooner the vaccine comes to everyone the better.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 15, 2020, 06:39:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2020, 06:10:49 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 15, 2020, 06:05:20 PM
So why has the 2 week lockdown not worked?
Cases have actually went up and hospital admissions

Schools and no one listening to the rules

That's it in a nutshell.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 06:59:15 PM
Quote from: Taylor on December 15, 2020, 04:45:31 PM
15 ambulances currently queueing outside Antrim Area Hospital.

Director of operations has said they are providing care in the car park.

Several NI hospitals now over capacity.

The worst of this is yet to come

Any reports about covid numbers in there?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hereiam on December 15, 2020, 07:45:10 PM
I think its more to do with being understaffed, I know first hand that the admissions set up in Antrim is very poorly staffed.
Also it never really said how many of the patients were in because of COVID symptoms.
A bit of scare mongering going on by the BBCNI Team.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 15, 2020, 07:47:07 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on December 15, 2020, 07:45:10 PM
I think its more to do with being understaffed, I know first hand that the admissions set up in Antrim is very poorly staffed.
Also it never really said how many of the patients were in because of COVID symptoms.
A bit of scare mongering going on by the BBCNI Team.

You can be certain Robin Swann will blame the people again. He's threading a very fine line there I feel.

Especially when its him and his fellow elected officials sat and took their money for 3 odd years and let this place stagnate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smort on December 15, 2020, 07:49:28 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on December 15, 2020, 07:45:10 PM
I think its more to do with being understaffed, I know first hand that the admissions set up in Antrim is very poorly staffed.
Also it never really said how many of the patients were in because of COVID symptoms.
A bit of scare mongering going on by the BBCNI Team.

I don't think it's scaremongering from the BBC. They are rightly showing what state our health care system is in and if it's is like this now, imagine what it will be like post-christmas. It doesn't matter if they are covid patients or not, the hospitals are over capacity and the staff are exhausted and depleted
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 07:54:11 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on December 15, 2020, 07:45:10 PM
I think its more to do with being understaffed, I know first hand that the admissions set up in Antrim is very poorly staffed.
Also it never really said how many of the patients were in because of COVID symptoms.
A bit of scare mongering going on by the BBCNI Team.

Yep
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 07:54:50 PM
Quote from: smort on December 15, 2020, 07:49:28 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on December 15, 2020, 07:45:10 PM
I think its more to do with being understaffed, I know first hand that the admissions set up in Antrim is very poorly staffed.
Also it never really said how many of the patients were in because of COVID symptoms.
A bit of scare mongering going on by the BBCNI Team.

I don't think it's scaremongering from the BBC. They are rightly showing what state our health care system is in and if it's is like this now, imagine what it will be like post-christmas. It doesn't matter if they are covid patients or not, the hospitals are over capacity and the staff are exhausted and depleted

You know what to do next election
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2020, 07:56:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 07:54:50 PM
Quote from: smort on December 15, 2020, 07:49:28 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on December 15, 2020, 07:45:10 PM
I think its more to do with being understaffed, I know first hand that the admissions set up in Antrim is very poorly staffed.
Also it never really said how many of the patients were in because of COVID symptoms.
A bit of scare mongering going on by the BBCNI Team.

I don't think it's scaremongering from the BBC. They are rightly showing what state our health care system is in and if it's is like this now, imagine what it will be like post-christmas. It doesn't matter if they are covid patients or not, the hospitals are over capacity and the staff are exhausted and depleted

You know what to do next election

Is there any group out there in the North that would actually do any better? No real government bar NZ  is coming out of this with any popularity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 07:59:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2020, 07:56:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 07:54:50 PM
Quote from: smort on December 15, 2020, 07:49:28 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on December 15, 2020, 07:45:10 PM
I think its more to do with being understaffed, I know first hand that the admissions set up in Antrim is very poorly staffed.
Also it never really said how many of the patients were in because of COVID symptoms.
A bit of scare mongering going on by the BBCNI Team.

I don't think it's scaremongering from the BBC. They are rightly showing what state our health care system is in and if it's is like this now, imagine what it will be like post-christmas. It doesn't matter if they are covid patients or not, the hospitals are over capacity and the staff are exhausted and depleted

You know what to do next election

Is there any group out there in the North that would actually do any better? No real government bar NZ  is coming out of this with any popularity.

no other country had politicians sitting in their arses for 3 years driving their health services further into regression. Thats what's happening in Antrim
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 15, 2020, 08:01:43 PM
The thing that worries me about media portrayal of the pandemic in general is how blame gets apportioned. We had an already very much creeking health service and now a pandemic pushing it over the edge. The fact the nhs hasn't the resource to deal with a pandemic is not purely because of COVID. A significant lack of investment is the key problem here. The health service has been in a state where COVID is the straw which is breaking it. It is obviously a significant issue however I am concerned that some of the main reasons we have significant problems are going to get swept under the carpet.

People going to house parties etc etc is not going to help but government policies on lockdown are a bigger problem, having no stormont for three years has significantly contributed and let's be honest the tories would have left us best case high and dry anyway but we are worse off than the high and dry. Also two week lockdowns are pointless. The CMO said it takes 2 weeks to see the effect so at best you are going to get a minor blip. That one week off was also one of the most ridiculous things you will ever see. Numbers either flatlined or grew and they have eased lockdown because of Christmas. It's ridiculous.

I also wouldn't be surprised if some medical professionals are trying to push this to the bbc as they are obviously creaking and more COVID cases will just be too much for them so they want lockdown "reinstated ".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2020, 08:02:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 07:59:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2020, 07:56:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 07:54:50 PM
Quote from: smort on December 15, 2020, 07:49:28 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on December 15, 2020, 07:45:10 PM
I think its more to do with being understaffed, I know first hand that the admissions set up in Antrim is very poorly staffed.
Also it never really said how many of the patients were in because of COVID symptoms.
A bit of scare mongering going on by the BBCNI Team.

I don't think it's scaremongering from the BBC. They are rightly showing what state our health care system is in and if it's is like this now, imagine what it will be like post-christmas. It doesn't matter if they are covid patients or not, the hospitals are over capacity and the staff are exhausted and depleted

You know what to do next election

Is there any group out there in the North that would actually do any better? No real government bar NZ  is coming out of this with any popularity.

no other country had politicians sitting in their arses for 3 years driving their health services further into regression. Thats what's happening in Antrim

That is true but it's a puppet government thats allowed so much but the reality is London calls the shots.

The hospital situation in my view was rotten before this, before the collapse
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 15, 2020, 08:14:06 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 07:59:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2020, 07:56:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 07:54:50 PM
Quote from: smort on December 15, 2020, 07:49:28 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on December 15, 2020, 07:45:10 PM
I think its more to do with being understaffed, I know first hand that the admissions set up in Antrim is very poorly staffed.
Also it never really said how many of the patients were in because of COVID symptoms.
A bit of scare mongering going on by the BBCNI Team.

I don't think it's scaremongering from the BBC. They are rightly showing what state our health care system is in and if it's is like this now, imagine what it will be like post-christmas. It doesn't matter if they are covid patients or not, the hospitals are over capacity and the staff are exhausted and depleted

You know what to do next election

Is there any group out there in the North that would actually do any better? No real government bar NZ  is coming out of this with any popularity.

no other country had politicians sitting in their arses for 3 years driving their health services further into regression. Thats what's happening in Antrim

London allowed them to sit on their arses for 3 years with full pay. They only got off their holes when their salaries were in jeopardy. Says everything you need to know about the shower of hoors really.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 15, 2020, 08:22:42 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 15, 2020, 08:01:43 PM
The thing that worries me about media portrayal of the pandemic in general is how blame gets apportioned. We had an already very much creeking health service and now a pandemic pushing it over the edge. The fact the nhs hasn't the resource to deal with a pandemic is not purely because of COVID. A significant lack of investment is the key problem here. The health service has been in a state where COVID is the straw which is breaking it. It is obviously a significant issue however I am concerned that some of the main reasons we have significant problems are going to get swept under the carpet.

There are definite problems with the health service in NI. But Covid is a once in 100 year event, if you do not restrict its spread then you overwhelm any health service. A good health service will last another week or two, but you still run into the buffers, look at Germany closing all their shops 10 days before Christmas.

The mess in the 6 counties is largely the fault of the DUP who pulled that cross community stunt to open things up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 15, 2020, 08:28:20 PM
It is but the medical profession have had them warned. A pandemic is something that was predicted to come. That's not hindsight - they even did dry runs with the nhs.

On the subject of the dup and the one week it is not just that. If your policy is high numbers and you lockdown then the numbers were no different when we were locked down than they are now but it's ok because it's Christmas. There actually doesn't seem to be any policy. It's make it up as you go along. I know it can't be easy making decisions on this but opening up now to me is not a wise decision. One week these numbers merited lockdown and the next week the same or worse numbers don't. Doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 09:17:29 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 15, 2020, 08:14:06 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 07:59:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2020, 07:56:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2020, 07:54:50 PM
Quote from: smort on December 15, 2020, 07:49:28 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on December 15, 2020, 07:45:10 PM
I think its more to do with being understaffed, I know first hand that the admissions set up in Antrim is very poorly staffed.
Also it never really said how many of the patients were in because of COVID symptoms.
A bit of scare mongering going on by the BBCNI Team.

I don't think it's scaremongering from the BBC. They are rightly showing what state our health care system is in and if it's is like this now, imagine what it will be like post-christmas. It doesn't matter if they are covid patients or not, the hospitals are over capacity and the staff are exhausted and depleted

You know what to do next election

Is there any group out there in the North that would actually do any better? No real government bar NZ  is coming out of this with any popularity.

no other country had politicians sitting in their arses for 3 years driving their health services further into regression. Thats what's happening in Antrim

London allowed them to sit on their arses for 3 years with full pay. They only got off their holes when their salaries were in jeopardy. Says everything you need to know about the shower of hoors really.

That and the nurses strike, the stirke that could have been avoided had Michelle o Neill gave the rise first time around. SF/DUP two cheeks of the wan arse in many respects. Rotten to the core.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on December 15, 2020, 11:39:53 PM
I heard some guy on the radio today saying that the majority of 'rich' countries have made a mess of the virus.

Why?

Because they're too impatient and have a sense of entitlement and are always looking for a fast solution to everything nowadays - that's the life we're living in now.  Even we can't eat properly, needing all these drive through restaurants.

Not far wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2020, 11:43:51 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 15, 2020, 11:39:53 PM
I heard some guy on the radio today saying that the majority of 'rich' countries have made a mess of the virus.

Why?

Because they're too impatient and have a sense of entitlement and are always looking for a fast solution to everything nowadays - that's the life we're living in now.  Even we can't eat properly, needing all these drive through restaurants.

Not far wrong.

Drive through is so old hat! Look at the food apps and blokes on flipping bikes peddling flipping sandwich's to people wtf is wrong with people!

Walk to the shop and buy a sandwich ya lazy shites

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on December 15, 2020, 11:47:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2020, 11:43:51 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 15, 2020, 11:39:53 PM
I heard some guy on the radio today saying that the majority of 'rich' countries have made a mess of the virus.

Why?

Because they're too impatient and have a sense of entitlement and are always looking for a fast solution to everything nowadays - that's the life we're living in now.  Even we can't eat properly, needing all these drive through restaurants.

Not far wrong.

Drive through is so old hat! Look at the food apps and blokes on flipping bikes peddling flipping sandwich's to people wtf is wrong with people!

Walk to the shop and buy a sandwich ya lazy shites

But that's the point - people in these countries are impatient.  They want everything...yesterday.

This sense of entitlement is clear to see during the pandemic.  The majority of people, in the second phase, couldn't give a toss.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 16, 2020, 12:00:04 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2020, 11:43:51 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 15, 2020, 11:39:53 PM
I heard some guy on the radio today saying that the majority of 'rich' countries have made a mess of the virus.

Why?

Because they're too impatient and have a sense of entitlement and are always looking for a fast solution to everything nowadays - that's the life we're living in now.  Even we can't eat properly, needing all these drive through restaurants.

Not far wrong.

Drive through is so old hat! Look at the food apps and blokes on flipping bikes peddling flipping sandwich's to people wtf is wrong with people!

Walk to the shop and buy a sandwich ya lazy shites

Apparently it's not just sandwiches. It's people ordering a milkshake or a doughnut, and someone bringing it to them on a bike. The world is f**ked.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 16, 2020, 07:13:53 AM
The big shots on the hill are in many ways the problem as the why hospitals are overwhelmed.
A lack of funding and planning for the health service
To sit on your hole for 3 years what do you expect?
Instead of Robbie continuous blame game of the public let's call a spade a spade and tell the truth that the health service in the North is not fit for purpose
Michelle was a major part of the problem when she was health minister
Brass necks and all that
They will never be voted out but the shinners and the DUP are not fit to govern this country
They have lost control of this thing.
We have the equivalent of the south haven't 1400 cases. They expect that in the south in late January worst case scenario.
Everything should be shot for 1 month from next week
Shops
Restaurants
Work
Schools
1 month total lockdown get the numbers and hospital admission right down by the end of January and by that stage the vaccine should be kicking in
They will mess the distribution of the vaccine also
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 16, 2020, 08:22:41 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 16, 2020, 07:13:53 AM
The big shots on the hill are in many ways the problem as the why hospitals are overwhelmed.
A lack of funding and planning for the health service
To sit on your hole for 3 years what do you expect?
Instead of Robbie continuous blame game of the public let's call a spade a spade and tell the truth that the health service in the North is not fit for purpose
Michelle was a major part of the problem when she was health minister
Brass necks and all that
They will never be voted out but the shinners and the DUP are not fit to govern this country
They have lost control of this thing.
We have the equivalent of the south haven't 1400 cases. They expect that in the south in late January worst case scenario.
Everything should be shot for 1 month from next week
Shops
Restaurants
Work
Schools
1 month total lockdown get the numbers and hospital admission right down by the end of January and by that stage the vaccine should be kicking in
They will mess the distribution of the vaccine also

And how many do you think will have the vaccine by end of January.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 16, 2020, 09:06:13 AM
Quote from: Seaney on December 16, 2020, 08:22:41 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 16, 2020, 07:13:53 AM
The big shots on the hill are in many ways the problem as the why hospitals are overwhelmed.
A lack of funding and planning for the health service
To sit on your hole for 3 years what do you expect?
Instead of Robbie continuous blame game of the public let's call a spade a spade and tell the truth that the health service in the North is not fit for purpose
Michelle was a major part of the problem when she was health minister
Brass necks and all that
They will never be voted out but the shinners and the DUP are not fit to govern this country
They have lost control of this thing.
We have the equivalent of the south haven't 1400 cases. They expect that in the south in late January worst case scenario.
Everything should be shot for 1 month from next week
Shops
Restaurants
Work
Schools
1 month total lockdown get the numbers and hospital admission right down by the end of January and by that stage the vaccine should be kicking in
They will mess the distribution of the vaccine also

And how many do you think will have the vaccine by end of January.

For NI

Starting this month, priority groups one and two will be targeted.

Those are care home residents and staff in group one, and health and social care workers and those more than 80 years of age in group two.
There are an estimated 16,000 care home residents in Northern Ireland, with 32,000 staff.
In priority group two, there will be more than 71,000 health and social care workers, and about 82,000 people aged over 80, who don't live in care homes.
In January and February 2021, Phase two will cover Priority Groups three to seven. That takes in the over-65s (233,000), and vulnerable people under 65 who have underlying conditions - those who are extremely vulnerable (95,000) and those at a moderate risk (130,000).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on December 16, 2020, 09:53:52 AM
Ive completely changed my view on lockdowns from March, in March I was completely for lockdowns in a short term basis to get a handle on things but it has now become the go to solution which when you start to look at the data as a whole as opposed to just Covid data, lockdowns make no difference to overall death rates. I came across this interview with Dr John Lee on TalkRadio (I know I know) he makes some excellent points, in fact the best point I think he argued that a positive test should not be be called a case given that most of the those testing positive have no symptoms and no effect on them, there should be a distinction between cases and people with positive tests. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHAJFQtnSVw&feature=youtu.be there's a link to the interview.

I am not saying I fully agree but what I am saying is when we look at the data and then we hear the figures released yesterday regarding the level of unemployment I think there are serious questions to be asked.

as stated, Covid, at the minute is a serious squirrel for the government and is masking a lot of the serious questions that need to be asked about how they have allowed the NHS to get to the stage where, every single winter it is beyond capacity and on its knees with staff being drained of every ounce they have.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 16, 2020, 10:05:06 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on December 16, 2020, 09:53:52 AM
Ive completely changed my view on lockdowns from March, in March I was completely for lockdowns in a short term basis to get a handle on things but it has now become the go to solution which when you start to look at the data as a whole as opposed to just Covid data, lockdowns make no difference to overall death rates. I came across this interview with Dr John Lee on TalkRadio (I know I know) he makes some excellent points, in fact the best point I think he argued that a positive test should not be be called a case given that most of the those testing positive have no symptoms and no effect on them, there should be a distinction between cases and people with positive tests. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHAJFQtnSVw&feature=youtu.be there's a link to the interview.

I am not saying I fully agree but what I am saying is when we look at the data and then we hear the figures released yesterday regarding the level of unemployment I think there are serious questions to be asked.

as stated, Covid, at the minute is a serious squirrel for the government and is masking a lot of the serious questions that need to be asked about how they have allowed the NHS to get to the stage where, every single winter it is beyond capacity and on its knees with staff being drained of every ounce they have.

Nothing too outrageous here. There will always be death. Nobody cared last year when the NHS was at bursting point, this year it's the only show in town.

Too many people feel a sense of mortality with regards to Covid. Lets not forget, Northern Ireland is a serious smoking nation. The damage for a lot is already done.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on December 16, 2020, 10:09:27 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on December 16, 2020, 09:53:52 AM
Ive completely changed my view on lockdowns from March, in March I was completely for lockdowns in a short term basis to get a handle on things but it has now become the go to solution which when you start to look at the data as a whole as opposed to just Covid data, lockdowns make no difference to overall death rates. I came across this interview with Dr John Lee on TalkRadio (I know I know) he makes some excellent points, in fact the best point I think he argued that a positive test should not be be called a case given that most of the those testing positive have no symptoms and no effect on them, there should be a distinction between cases and people with positive tests. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHAJFQtnSVw&feature=youtu.be there's a link to the interview.

I am not saying I fully agree but what I am saying is when we look at the data and then we hear the figures released yesterday regarding the level of unemployment I think there are serious questions to be asked.

as stated, Covid, at the minute is a serious squirrel for the government and is masking a lot of the serious questions that need to be asked about how they have allowed the NHS to get to the stage where, every single winter it is beyond capacity and on its knees with staff being drained of every ounce they have.

I think there's plenty of evidence that when things start to get out of control if you catch it early enough lockdowns/restrictions do work if implemented properly.

You only have to look at the North v the South of Ireland on the same Island to see how restrictions/lockdowns can help. In the north we've had half attempts at them and politicians fighting against them since the summer. The south has been stricter and clearer on there approach and despite having 3 times the population of the north they half the numbers in hospitals and a lot less deaths. The economy is going to suffer if you don't lockdown as shown in other countries and as bad as people losing their jobs is it's not as bad as some family having to cope with a death.

People keep saying oh the hospitals would be full anyway and covid isn't a huge factor. But no matter what way you look at there has been 15-20% excess deaths this year compared to the previous 5 years (I'd say around 800 caused by covid judging by respiratory numbers and the other 800 caused by the knockon effects of the hospitals being under pressure due to covid). And this is despite the fact we had the severe lockdown early in the year.

Also if you want another example of how restrictions v non restrictions works out look at Sweden v it's neighbours. They tried a soft approach and have had a a huge amount of more deaths compared to their neighbours and their economy has still suffered.

Our problem in the north with recent restrictions was they weren't quick enough, strict enough and didn't last long enough. They did help slow the virus down a bit but with people really stepping up rule breaking and things opening in recent weeks there is a potential disaster zone weighting to happen early in the new year. You can see the problems already building in the hospitals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 16, 2020, 10:11:38 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on December 16, 2020, 09:53:52 AMI think there are serious questions to be asked.

There are massive questions to be asked.

But is there any point asking them if there are no repercussions for horrendously wrong answers?

IMO more than a few people should at the least receive lifetime bans on standing for public office. I'd prefer jail time, but accept that is unfeasible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on December 16, 2020, 10:13:24 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 16, 2020, 10:05:06 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on December 16, 2020, 09:53:52 AM
Ive completely changed my view on lockdowns from March, in March I was completely for lockdowns in a short term basis to get a handle on things but it has now become the go to solution which when you start to look at the data as a whole as opposed to just Covid data, lockdowns make no difference to overall death rates. I came across this interview with Dr John Lee on TalkRadio (I know I know) he makes some excellent points, in fact the best point I think he argued that a positive test should not be be called a case given that most of the those testing positive have no symptoms and no effect on them, there should be a distinction between cases and people with positive tests. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHAJFQtnSVw&feature=youtu.be there's a link to the interview.

I am not saying I fully agree but what I am saying is when we look at the data and then we hear the figures released yesterday regarding the level of unemployment I think there are serious questions to be asked.

as stated, Covid, at the minute is a serious squirrel for the government and is masking a lot of the serious questions that need to be asked about how they have allowed the NHS to get to the stage where, every single winter it is beyond capacity and on its knees with staff being drained of every ounce they have.

Nothing too outrageous here. There will always be death. Nobody cared last year when the NHS was at bursting point, this year it's the only show in town.

Too many people feel a sense of mortality with regards to Covid. Lets not forget, Northern Ireland is a serious smoking nation. The damage for a lot is already done.

That might be true about there not being enough emphasis on NHS being at bursting point previously but no matter what way you look at it this year isn't like last year. We've had 1,500 plus more deaths this year than then and that is despite continued efforts to stop the spread of covid.

There will always be death (a lot of which can't be avoided) but if you let a contagious dangerous disease like this spread there will be a lot more deaths than necessary.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 16, 2020, 10:15:32 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 16, 2020, 10:09:27 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on December 16, 2020, 09:53:52 AM
Ive completely changed my view on lockdowns from March, in March I was completely for lockdowns in a short term basis to get a handle on things but it has now become the go to solution which when you start to look at the data as a whole as opposed to just Covid data, lockdowns make no difference to overall death rates. I came across this interview with Dr John Lee on TalkRadio (I know I know) he makes some excellent points, in fact the best point I think he argued that a positive test should not be be called a case given that most of the those testing positive have no symptoms and no effect on them, there should be a distinction between cases and people with positive tests. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHAJFQtnSVw&feature=youtu.be there's a link to the interview.

I am not saying I fully agree but what I am saying is when we look at the data and then we hear the figures released yesterday regarding the level of unemployment I think there are serious questions to be asked.

as stated, Covid, at the minute is a serious squirrel for the government and is masking a lot of the serious questions that need to be asked about how they have allowed the NHS to get to the stage where, every single winter it is beyond capacity and on its knees with staff being drained of every ounce they have.

I think there's plenty of evidence that when things start to get out of control if you catch it early enough lockdowns/restrictions do work if implemented properly.

You only have to look at the North v the South of Ireland on the same Island to see how restrictions/lockdowns can help. In the north we've had half attempts at them and politicians fighting against them since the summer. The south has been stricter and clearer on there approach and despite having 3 times the population of the north they half the numbers in hospitals and a lot less deaths. The economy is going to suffer if you don't lockdown as shown in other countries and as bad as people losing their jobs is it's not as bad as some family having to cope with a death.

People keep saying oh the hospitals would be full anyway and covid isn't a huge factor. But no matter what way you look at there has been 15-20% excess deaths this year compared to the previous 5 years (I'd say around 800 caused by covid judging by respiratory numbers and the other 800 caused by the knockon effects of the hospitals being under pressure due to covid). And this is despite the fact we had the severe lockdown early in the year.

Also if you want another example of how restrictions v non restrictions works out look at Sweden v it's neighbours. They tried a soft approach and have had a a huge amount of more deaths compared to their neighbours and their economy has still suffered.

Our problem in the north with recent restrictions was they weren't quick enough, strict enough and didn't last long enough. They did help slow the virus down a bit but with people really stepping up rule breaking and things opening in recent weeks there is a potential disaster zone weighting to happen early in the new year. You can see the problems already building in the hospitals.

In fairness now, we in the North don't look great at the moment. But the whole summer we hardly had a death. I don't like this North v South point scoring. We clearly have a problem in our schools. It's undeniable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on December 16, 2020, 10:19:17 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 16, 2020, 10:15:32 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 16, 2020, 10:09:27 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on December 16, 2020, 09:53:52 AM
Ive completely changed my view on lockdowns from March, in March I was completely for lockdowns in a short term basis to get a handle on things but it has now become the go to solution which when you start to look at the data as a whole as opposed to just Covid data, lockdowns make no difference to overall death rates. I came across this interview with Dr John Lee on TalkRadio (I know I know) he makes some excellent points, in fact the best point I think he argued that a positive test should not be be called a case given that most of the those testing positive have no symptoms and no effect on them, there should be a distinction between cases and people with positive tests. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHAJFQtnSVw&feature=youtu.be there's a link to the interview.

I am not saying I fully agree but what I am saying is when we look at the data and then we hear the figures released yesterday regarding the level of unemployment I think there are serious questions to be asked.

as stated, Covid, at the minute is a serious squirrel for the government and is masking a lot of the serious questions that need to be asked about how they have allowed the NHS to get to the stage where, every single winter it is beyond capacity and on its knees with staff being drained of every ounce they have.

I think there's plenty of evidence that when things start to get out of control if you catch it early enough lockdowns/restrictions do work if implemented properly.

You only have to look at the North v the South of Ireland on the same Island to see how restrictions/lockdowns can help. In the north we've had half attempts at them and politicians fighting against them since the summer. The south has been stricter and clearer on there approach and despite having 3 times the population of the north they half the numbers in hospitals and a lot less deaths. The economy is going to suffer if you don't lockdown as shown in other countries and as bad as people losing their jobs is it's not as bad as some family having to cope with a death.

People keep saying oh the hospitals would be full anyway and covid isn't a huge factor. But no matter what way you look at there has been 15-20% excess deaths this year compared to the previous 5 years (I'd say around 800 caused by covid judging by respiratory numbers and the other 800 caused by the knockon effects of the hospitals being under pressure due to covid). And this is despite the fact we had the severe lockdown early in the year.

Also if you want another example of how restrictions v non restrictions works out look at Sweden v it's neighbours. They tried a soft approach and have had a a huge amount of more deaths compared to their neighbours and their economy has still suffered.

Our problem in the north with recent restrictions was they weren't quick enough, strict enough and didn't last long enough. They did help slow the virus down a bit but with people really stepping up rule breaking and things opening in recent weeks there is a potential disaster zone weighting to happen early in the new year. You can see the problems already building in the hospitals.

In fairness now, we in the North don't look great at the moment. But the whole summer we hardly had a death. I don't like this North v South point scoring. We clearly have a problem in our schools. It's undeniable.

And the reason we hardly had a death in the summer was we got the virus under control through a tough lockdown, people continued to follow some kind of rules early summer and favourable weather meant there was less indoor mixing.

The south have also shown that you can open schools and still keep a handle on things.

I think some people want to play it all down so they can do what they want and not be told what to do. But behind every one of those 1,500 excess deaths this year is a story and a life cut short that shouldn't be ignored or accepted so you can carry on like nothing is happening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 16, 2020, 10:28:15 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on December 16, 2020, 09:53:52 AM
Ive completely changed my view on lockdowns from March, in March I was completely for lockdowns in a short term basis to get a handle on things but it has now become the go to solution which when you start to look at the data as a whole as opposed to just Covid data, lockdowns make no difference to overall death rates.

We all die eventually, but lockdown clearly do affect levels of hospitalisation and so death.

QuoteI am not saying I fully agree but what I am saying is when we look at the data and then we hear the figures released yesterday regarding the level of unemployment I think there are serious questions to be asked.

This is a function of how things are managed. The Chinese economy has grown this year because they locked down and more or less got rid of the virus.

QuoteCovid, at the minute is a serious squirrel for the government and is masking a lot of the serious questions that need to be asked about how they have allowed the NHS to get to the stage where, every single winter it is beyond capacity and on its knees with staff being drained of every ounce they have.

Indeed, we have been skimming the water for years and some planning is needed. But a lot of health care is reactive, with little effort to plan for the future

Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 16, 2020, 10:09:27 AM
Our problem in the north with recent restrictions was they weren't quick enough, strict enough and didn't last long enough. They did help slow the virus down a bit but with people really stepping up rule breaking and things opening in recent weeks there is a potential disaster zone weighting to happen early in the new year. You can see the problems already building in the hospitals.

This is one thing where half measures are no good. As China showed, you need to push on and get the job done.
Of course, NI has a lot in common with other European countries that you would think would do better. The Netherlands have closed everything yesterday. People in the 26 counties don't appreciate quite how well of they are, Covid wise, although you would never think it from the whining.

QuoteI think some people want to play it all down so they can do what they want and not be told what to do. But behind every one of those 1,500 excess deaths this year is a story and a life cut short that shouldn't be ignored or accepted so you can carry on like nothing is happening.

Quite. I do not agree with the conclusion so I am going to change the facts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on December 16, 2020, 10:39:29 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 16, 2020, 10:28:15 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on December 16, 2020, 09:53:52 AM
Ive completely changed my view on lockdowns from March, in March I was completely for lockdowns in a short term basis to get a handle on things but it has now become the go to solution which when you start to look at the data as a whole as opposed to just Covid data, lockdowns make no difference to overall death rates.

We all die eventually, but lockdown clearly do affect levels of hospitalisation and so death.

QuoteI am not saying I fully agree but what I am saying is when we look at the data and then we hear the figures released yesterday regarding the level of unemployment I think there are serious questions to be asked.

This is a function of how things are managed. The Chinese economy has grown this year because they locked down and more or less got rid of the virus.

QuoteCovid, at the minute is a serious squirrel for the government and is masking a lot of the serious questions that need to be asked about how they have allowed the NHS to get to the stage where, every single winter it is beyond capacity and on its knees with staff being drained of every ounce they have.

Indeed, we have been skimming the water for years and some planning is needed. But a lot of health care is reactive, with little effort to plan for the future

Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 16, 2020, 10:09:27 AM
Our problem in the north with recent restrictions was they weren't quick enough, strict enough and didn't last long enough. They did help slow the virus down a bit but with people really stepping up rule breaking and things opening in recent weeks there is a potential disaster zone weighting to happen early in the new year. You can see the problems already building in the hospitals.

This is one thing where half measures are no good. As China showed, you need to push on and get the job done.
Of course, NI has a lot in common with other European countries that you would think would do better. The Netherlands have closed everything yesterday. People in the 26 counties don't appreciate quite how well of they are, Covid wise, although you would never think it from the whining.

QuoteI think some people want to play it all down so they can do what they want and not be told what to do. But behind every one of those 1,500 excess deaths this year is a story and a life cut short that shouldn't be ignored or accepted so you can carry on like nothing is happening.

Quite. I do not agree with the conclusion so I am going to change the facts.

In terms of that last bit some of the nonsense people who don't believe in covid come out with is crazy. They go on about there being no more deaths than normal and it's all made up. Then when someone points out there has indeed been a lot of excess deaths this year they try to blame it on the lockdown as if it wasn't needed and that covid had no factor in the excess deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on December 16, 2020, 10:41:26 AM
Australia and New Zealand are two more examples of were very tough lockdowns have stopped the spread of covid and resulted in very few deaths occurring from it. I actually can't see how anyone can argue they don't work if done right.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 16, 2020, 10:45:20 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 16, 2020, 10:41:26 AM
Australia and New Zealand are two more examples of were very tough lockdowns have stopped the spread of covid and resulted in very few deaths occurring from it. I actually can't see how anyone can argue they don't work if done right.

I'm all for a total lockdown, one off, on condition there is no more after that and track and trace actually, thereafter works when they have a handle on it.

The lockdowns we have had so far are diluted nonsense, especially this most recent one when schools stayed open.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on December 16, 2020, 10:45:29 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 16, 2020, 10:19:17 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 16, 2020, 10:15:32 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 16, 2020, 10:09:27 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on December 16, 2020, 09:53:52 AM
Ive completely changed my view on lockdowns from March, in March I was completely for lockdowns in a short term basis to get a handle on things but it has now become the go to solution which when you start to look at the data as a whole as opposed to just Covid data, lockdowns make no difference to overall death rates. I came across this interview with Dr John Lee on TalkRadio (I know I know) he makes some excellent points, in fact the best point I think he argued that a positive test should not be be called a case given that most of the those testing positive have no symptoms and no effect on them, there should be a distinction between cases and people with positive tests. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHAJFQtnSVw&feature=youtu.be there's a link to the interview.

I am not saying I fully agree but what I am saying is when we look at the data and then we hear the figures released yesterday regarding the level of unemployment I think there are serious questions to be asked.

as stated, Covid, at the minute is a serious squirrel for the government and is masking a lot of the serious questions that need to be asked about how they have allowed the NHS to get to the stage where, every single winter it is beyond capacity and on its knees with staff being drained of every ounce they have.

I think there's plenty of evidence that when things start to get out of control if you catch it early enough lockdowns/restrictions do work if implemented properly.

You only have to look at the North v the South of Ireland on the same Island to see how restrictions/lockdowns can help. In the north we've had half attempts at them and politicians fighting against them since the summer. The south has been stricter and clearer on there approach and despite having 3 times the population of the north they half the numbers in hospitals and a lot less deaths. The economy is going to suffer if you don't lockdown as shown in other countries and as bad as people losing their jobs is it's not as bad as some family having to cope with a death.

People keep saying oh the hospitals would be full anyway and covid isn't a huge factor. But no matter what way you look at there has been 15-20% excess deaths this year compared to the previous 5 years (I'd say around 800 caused by covid judging by respiratory numbers and the other 800 caused by the knockon effects of the hospitals being under pressure due to covid). And this is despite the fact we had the severe lockdown early in the year.

Also if you want another example of how restrictions v non restrictions works out look at Sweden v it's neighbours. They tried a soft approach and have had a a huge amount of more deaths compared to their neighbours and their economy has still suffered.

Our problem in the north with recent restrictions was they weren't quick enough, strict enough and didn't last long enough. They did help slow the virus down a bit but with people really stepping up rule breaking and things opening in recent weeks there is a potential disaster zone weighting to happen early in the new year. You can see the problems already building in the hospitals.

In fairness now, we in the North don't look great at the moment. But the whole summer we hardly had a death. I don't like this North v South point scoring. We clearly have a problem in our schools. It's undeniable.

And the reason we hardly had a death in the summer was we got the virus under control through a tough lockdown, people continued to follow some kind of rules early summer and favourable weather meant there was less indoor mixing.

The south have also shown that you can open schools and still keep a handle on things.

I think some people want to play it all down so they can do what they want and not be told what to do. But behind every one of those 1,500 excess deaths this year is a story and a life cut short that shouldn't be ignored or accepted so you can carry on like nothing is happening.

we keep saying lockdowns work, but the first lockdown working was very much a combination of many things, for example the first lockdown came at a time when people could spend much more time outside, there is more of a case that ventilation and fresh air were the main driver for infection rates being lower, people sitting in gardens, spending time outside to later hours etc oh yeah and the fact that the schools were closed.

I know what you're saying regards the 1500 people dying, and 100% agree every single one of them families had to go through the pain of losing a loved one, so not to sound heartless I would ask, of those 1500 how many were above the life expectancy? again, not trying to make little of it but I think sometimes you have to weigh that up, I lost a family member to 'Pneumonia' few years ago, was 82 years of age but to say they would have lived much longer had they not caught it would be clutching at straws.

all im saying is that the NHS being over run isn't new, but the narrative is that it is only because of Covid that it is stretched, that is simply untrue, is it a massive contributing factor to it being over run this winter? yes it is, but is it the only reason? no.

Unemployment in NI rose to 3.7% with most of those Jobs lost in retail and manufacturing, the sad reality is that those jobs will not be replaced in that retail has now pretty much shifted to mostly online, accelerating the decline of high streets by circa 10yrs and with manufacturing now downsizing and utilising machinery more.

at some stage there has to be a discussion where the answer isn't automatically 'lockdown'
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 16, 2020, 10:52:29 AM
The problem with a lockdown is that it's not a lockdown.

If this was September, a lot more places would be closed. But governments are afraid to, because people would complain as they couldn't go out to buy Xmas pyjamas and traders would miss out on Christmas trade, and the government would have to compensate them. That's what it's boiling down to.

We are going to see one hell of a shitstorm in January.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 16, 2020, 10:57:47 AM
I do agree with the bits you say there on the NHS. I think covid is being used as an excuse for how stretched the NHS is. It is most certainly not helping but the NHS here is in the worst state of the whole of the UK and it's not great in the rest of the UK. It's not the fault of the people who work in the NHS either. It's the fault of the governments and how they are funding it and how then they are allocating that funding. e.g. how many layers of middle management are required? is bureaucracy taking over from the real work?

We are only doing half assed lockdowns so can never really tell if they fully work.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on December 16, 2020, 10:58:09 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 16, 2020, 10:52:29 AM
The problem with a lockdown is that it's not a lockdown.

If this was September, a lot more places would be closed. But governments are afraid to, because people would complain as they couldn't go out to buy Xmas pyjamas and traders would miss out on Christmas trade, and the government would have to compensate them. That's what it's boiling down to.

We are going to see one hell of a shitstorm in January.

I agree.

People are the problem.  The sense of entitlement is unreal.

I need to queue at Primark for over an hour...like wtf?

People are the problem but I understand it's not good for the economy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 16, 2020, 10:59:41 AM
It is not purely people though. It is government decisions. It is how they police it. It's really the whole lot of it combined. Basically the whole thing up here is a shitshow.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 16, 2020, 11:05:17 AM
Quote from: marty34 on December 16, 2020, 10:58:09 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 16, 2020, 10:52:29 AM
The problem with a lockdown is that it's not a lockdown.

If this was September, a lot more places would be closed. But governments are afraid to, because people would complain as they couldn't go out to buy Xmas pyjamas and traders would miss out on Christmas trade, and the government would have to compensate them. That's what it's boiling down to.

We are going to see one hell of a shitstorm in January.

I agree.

People are the problem.  The sense of entitlement is unreal.

I need to queue at Primark for over an hour...like wtf?

People are the problem but I understand it's not good for the economy.

Not to defend this, because it winds me up. But when you close literally everything else, what else are people supposed to do? Going to Primark is now their evening meal, few pints, gym session, game of 5 a side, training.

Ever see as many people out walking Cuilcagh as you have this year? When you narrow down what people can do......of course you are going to end up in a mess like the Primark scenarios as that's basically their social lives now. Work and Primark.

It's going to continue this cycle, but over the last month, the tide has really turned, most people are openly saying they don't give a....This board does not represent the views I get in real life interaction, nowhere near it. Real life interaction is completely dismissive now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on December 16, 2020, 11:08:24 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 16, 2020, 10:57:47 AM
I do agree with the bits you say there on the NHS. I think covid is being used as an excuse for how stretched the NHS is. It is most certainly not helping but the NHS here is in the worst state of the whole of the UK and it's not great in the rest of the UK. It's not the fault of the people who work in the NHS either. It's the fault of the governments and how they are funding it and how then they are allocating that funding. e.g. how many layers of middle management are required? is bureaucracy taking over from the real work?

We are only doing half assed lockdowns so can never really tell if they fully work.

I agree, I just think there is a narrative that Covid came along and ruined a well oiled NHS that until this point was grand. My ex partner was a nurse so ive seen first hand the stress they were under in previous years, it always looked like they were under funded, under staffed and most importantly under valued. one thing I hope that comes from the last year is a complete overhaul and rethink of the NHS strategy, unfortunately I cant see it and to be honest the NHS being on its knees, along with a crippling debt, Brexit and massive unemployment in my eyes is all gearing very much towards a lot more privatisation of the health service, which isn't going to be good. but thats another discussion for another day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 16, 2020, 11:11:45 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 16, 2020, 10:59:41 AM
It is not purely people though. It is government decisions. It is how they police it. It's really the whole lot of it combined. Basically the whole thing up here is a shitshow.

Yes, but this isn't about avoiding a parking ticket or not paying your TV license. People shouldn't need to be policed on this. We all know what to do. But clearly, many people aren't doing it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on December 16, 2020, 11:15:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 16, 2020, 11:05:17 AM
Quote from: marty34 on December 16, 2020, 10:58:09 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 16, 2020, 10:52:29 AM
The problem with a lockdown is that it's not a lockdown.

If this was September, a lot more places would be closed. But governments are afraid to, because people would complain as they couldn't go out to buy Xmas pyjamas and traders would miss out on Christmas trade, and the government would have to compensate them. That's what it's boiling down to.

We are going to see one hell of a shitstorm in January.

I agree.

People are the problem.  The sense of entitlement is unreal.

I need to queue at Primark for over an hour...like wtf?

People are the problem but I understand it's not good for the economy.

Not to defend this, because it winds me up. But when you close literally everything else, what else are people supposed to do? Going to Primark is now their evening meal, few pints, gym session, game of 5 a side, training.

Ever see as many people out walking Cuilcagh as you have this year? When you narrow down what people can do......of course you are going to end up in a mess like the Primark scenarios as that's basically their social lives now. Work and Primark.

It's going to continue this cycle, but over the last month, the tide has really turned, most people are openly saying they don't give a....This board does not represent the views I get in real life interaction, nowhere near it. Real life interaction is completely dismissive now.

this is the crux of it, people do not care and have stopped listening, really what they needed to do was the the main points and drive them home ie wearing a mask, keeping distance, sanitising hands and limiting time spent indoors. they are things that make a difference. Closing places with little to no data to support their closure (ie gyms) just makes people pissed off and makes them discard the things they can do which were making a difference.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NAG1 on December 16, 2020, 11:17:00 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 16, 2020, 11:11:45 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 16, 2020, 10:59:41 AM
It is not purely people though. It is government decisions. It is how they police it. It's really the whole lot of it combined. Basically the whole thing up here is a shitshow.

Yes, but this isn't about avoiding a parking ticket or not paying your TV license. People shouldn't need to be policed on this. We all know what to do. But clearly, many people aren't doing it.

Agreed

But not helped by incompetence at government level.

Stay in dont go out, dont mix with anyone.
Here is money to go and eat cheap, get out there and take advantage.
Oh wait get back in again don't mix don't go out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 16, 2020, 11:20:00 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 16, 2020, 11:11:45 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 16, 2020, 10:59:41 AM
It is not purely people though. It is government decisions. It is how they police it. It's really the whole lot of it combined. Basically the whole thing up here is a shitshow.

Yes, but this isn't about avoiding a parking ticket or not paying your TV license. People shouldn't need to be policed on this. We all know what to do. But clearly, many people aren't doing it.

What makes that different to people needing policed from stealing, parking in the wrong place etc etc? I don't think it's that much different. When people can take liberties they will. A lot of restaurants and bars when opened when taking the piss. Then bars who were doing everything by the book just get shut on the back of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 16, 2020, 11:51:43 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on December 16, 2020, 11:15:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 16, 2020, 11:05:17 AM
Quote from: marty34 on December 16, 2020, 10:58:09 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 16, 2020, 10:52:29 AM
The problem with a lockdown is that it's not a lockdown.

If this was September, a lot more places would be closed. But governments are afraid to, because people would complain as they couldn't go out to buy Xmas pyjamas and traders would miss out on Christmas trade, and the government would have to compensate them. That's what it's boiling down to.

We are going to see one hell of a shitstorm in January.

I agree.

People are the problem.  The sense of entitlement is unreal.

I need to queue at Primark for over an hour...like wtf?

People are the problem but I understand it's not good for the economy.

Not to defend this, because it winds me up. But when you close literally everything else, what else are people supposed to do? Going to Primark is now their evening meal, few pints, gym session, game of 5 a side, training.

Ever see as many people out walking Cuilcagh as you have this year? When you narrow down what people can do......of course you are going to end up in a mess like the Primark scenarios as that's basically their social lives now. Work and Primark.

It's going to continue this cycle, but over the last month, the tide has really turned, most people are openly saying they don't give a....This board does not represent the views I get in real life interaction, nowhere near it. Real life interaction is completely dismissive now.

this is the crux of it, people do not care and have stopped listening, really what they needed to do was the the main points and drive them home ie wearing a mask, keeping distance, sanitising hands and limiting time spent indoors. they are things that make a difference. Closing places with little to no data to support their closure (ie gyms) just makes people pissed off and makes them discard the things they can do which were making a difference.

You are contradicting yourself there  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on December 16, 2020, 12:01:34 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 16, 2020, 11:51:43 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on December 16, 2020, 11:15:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 16, 2020, 11:05:17 AM
Quote from: marty34 on December 16, 2020, 10:58:09 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 16, 2020, 10:52:29 AM
The problem with a lockdown is that it's not a lockdown.

If this was September, a lot more places would be closed. But governments are afraid to, because people would complain as they couldn't go out to buy Xmas pyjamas and traders would miss out on Christmas trade, and the government would have to compensate them. That's what it's boiling down to.

We are going to see one hell of a shitstorm in January.

I agree.

People are the problem.  The sense of entitlement is unreal.

I need to queue at Primark for over an hour...like wtf?

People are the problem but I understand it's not good for the economy.

Not to defend this, because it winds me up. But when you close literally everything else, what else are people supposed to do? Going to Primark is now their evening meal, few pints, gym session, game of 5 a side, training.

Ever see as many people out walking Cuilcagh as you have this year? When you narrow down what people can do......of course you are going to end up in a mess like the Primark scenarios as that's basically their social lives now. Work and Primark.

It's going to continue this cycle, but over the last month, the tide has really turned, most people are openly saying they don't give a....This board does not represent the views I get in real life interaction, nowhere near it. Real life interaction is completely dismissive now.

this is the crux of it, people do not care and have stopped listening, really what they needed to do was the the main points and drive them home ie wearing a mask, keeping distance, sanitising hands and limiting time spent indoors. they are things that make a difference. Closing places with little to no data to support their closure (ie gyms) just makes people pissed off and makes them discard the things they can do which were making a difference.

You are contradicting yourself there  ;D

How so? there's a difference between limiting time and spending no time. I go to the gym and I feel 100 times safer than anywhere else, ever person wipes down machines before and after use, everything well spaced out and loads of machines not allowed to be used, good ventilation and limited numbers allowed in. admittedly I prob spend less time there now than I used to, I prob do 40 mins max where before I ws prob an hour at least, but maybe lots of that time was spent chatting to people etc so I suppose Covid has made my time management better! lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on December 16, 2020, 12:43:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 16, 2020, 10:52:29 AM
The problem with a lockdown is that it's not a lockdown.

If this was September, a lot more places would be closed. But governments are afraid to, because people would complain as they couldn't go out to buy Xmas pyjamas and traders would miss out on Christmas trade, and the government would have to compensate them. That's what it's boiling down to.

We are going to see one hell of a shitstorm in January.

This in a nutshell!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 16, 2020, 05:43:01 PM
The north's death rate compared to the south is terrible
Underfunded for to long
The big shots up the hill not given one fuk
It's time there were held accountable for such a poor health service
The numbers did not go down so the last lockdown had no affect
Where to from here?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 16, 2020, 06:25:44 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 16, 2020, 05:43:01 PM
The north's death rate compared to the south is terrible
Underfunded for to long
The big shots up the hill not given one fuk
It's time there were held accountable for such a poor health service
The numbers did not go down so the last lockdown had no affect
Where to from here?

Try not to get it, and try not to die. Every man for himself. That's where we are now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 16, 2020, 06:27:06 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on December 16, 2020, 10:45:29 AM
we keep saying lockdowns work
They do work

The evidence is cut and dried

Lockdowns are there to do one thing - reduce the amount of cases

That is their only function

And for that, they very definitely work

What you are talking about in the rest of your posts here is a different debate altogether - a debate about long term strategy


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on December 16, 2020, 08:28:21 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 16, 2020, 11:05:17 AM
Quote from: marty34 on December 16, 2020, 10:58:09 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 16, 2020, 10:52:29 AM
The problem with a lockdown is that it's not a lockdown.

If this was September, a lot more places would be closed. But governments are afraid to, because people would complain as they couldn't go out to buy Xmas pyjamas and traders would miss out on Christmas trade, and the government would have to compensate them. That's what it's boiling down to.

We are going to see one hell of a shitstorm in January.

I agree.

People are the problem.  The sense of entitlement is unreal.

I need to queue at Primark for over an hour...like wtf?

People are the problem but I understand it's not good for the economy.

Not to defend this, because it winds me up. But when you close literally everything else, what else are people supposed to do? Going to Primark is now their evening meal, few pints, gym session, game of 5 a side, training.

Ever see as many people out walking Cuilcagh as you have this year? When you narrow down what people can do......of course you are going to end up in a mess like the Primark scenarios as that's basically their social lives now. Work and Primark.

It's going to continue this cycle, but over the last month, the tide has really turned, most people are openly saying they don't give a....This board does not represent the views I get in real life interaction, nowhere near it. Real life interaction is completely dismissive now.

Get a grip - Primark is the new social life.  Wtf?

People need to take personal responsibility for their actions - queuing for an hour outside Primark, in a crowded area, is not a good decision. Whatever they need is not that important.

This sense of entitlement is unreal.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 16, 2020, 08:44:01 PM
While younger people are not as badly affected by Covid, in the US the death rate for people in the 25-44 year age group was 50% higher in July than the long run average, that includes all the road accidents, suicides, drug overdoses, cancers, etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 16, 2020, 08:51:21 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 16, 2020, 08:28:21 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 16, 2020, 11:05:17 AM
Quote from: marty34 on December 16, 2020, 10:58:09 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 16, 2020, 10:52:29 AM
The problem with a lockdown is that it's not a lockdown.

If this was September, a lot more places would be closed. But governments are afraid to, because people would complain as they couldn't go out to buy Xmas pyjamas and traders would miss out on Christmas trade, and the government would have to compensate them. That's what it's boiling down to.

We are going to see one hell of a shitstorm in January.

I agree.

People are the problem.  The sense of entitlement is unreal.

I need to queue at Primark for over an hour...like wtf?

People are the problem but I understand it's not good for the economy.

Not to defend this, because it winds me up. But when you close literally everything else, what else are people supposed to do? Going to Primark is now their evening meal, few pints, gym session, game of 5 a side, training.

Ever see as many people out walking Cuilcagh as you have this year? When you narrow down what people can do......of course you are going to end up in a mess like the Primark scenarios as that's basically their social lives now. Work and Primark.

It's going to continue this cycle, but over the last month, the tide has really turned, most people are openly saying they don't give a....This board does not represent the views I get in real life interaction, nowhere near it. Real life interaction is completely dismissive now.

Get a grip - Primark is the new social life.  Wtf?

People need to take personal responsibility for their actions - queuing for an hour outside Primark, in a crowded area, is not a good decision. Whatever they need is not that important.

This sense of entitlement is unreal.

What else do you want people to do here, you do understand that people cannot stay at home 24/7.

Give us your solution here, I am genuinely interested. I appreciate you are obviously frustrated, as we all are.

You are throwing out things like sense of entitlement here like these people acted in some way illegally. Was it wise? No. Do you want them to be at home 24/7 or what are you actually saying? They looked to be wearing face masks and relatively distanced from whatever pictures I seen. The shops were allowed to be open, they weren't stood outside Stormont protesting for their rights. What is the problem?






Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 17, 2020, 12:52:25 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 16, 2020, 08:51:21 PM
What else do you want people to do here, you do understand that people cannot stay at home 24/7.

Give us your solution here, I am genuinely interested. I appreciate you are obviously frustrated, as we all are.


They didn't need to go at a crowed time. They are part of the problem. Also there are people clearly in two and threes, one person can go to the shop and buy anything needed, the rest are just causing a problem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on December 17, 2020, 06:33:18 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 16, 2020, 05:43:01 PM
The north's death rate compared to the south is terrible
Underfunded for to long
The big shots up the hill not given one fuk
It's time there were held accountable for such a poor health service
The numbers did not go down so the last lockdown had no affect
Where to from here?

Tge North has 4 times the Covid incidence of the South

https://mobile.twitter.com/SeaninGraham22/status/1339274488844857344

8/12 hospitals are operating beyond capacity
Most of tgeincudence is in poorer areas. NI is poorer than the South

https://mobile.twitter.com/peterdonaghy/status/1317918641279651842


https://www.nisra.gov.uk/statistics/deprivation/northern-ireland-multiple-deprivation-measure-2017-nimdm2017
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 17, 2020, 07:23:25 AM
While I think the whole thing has been handled poorly up here there are deeper things going on than just that for the spread up here. Why it is a bigger issue in poorer areas needs to be looked at.

Also when you think about it some of those hospitals have a massive catchment area. (Moreso the ones outside Belfast)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 08:16:31 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 17, 2020, 06:33:18 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 16, 2020, 05:43:01 PM
The north's death rate compared to the south is terrible
Underfunded for to long
The big shots up the hill not given one fuk
It's time there were held accountable for such a poor health service
The numbers did not go down so the last lockdown had no affect
Where to from here?

Tge North has 4 times the Covid incidence of the South

https://mobile.twitter.com/SeaninGraham22/status/1339274488844857344

8/12 hospitals are operating beyond capacity
Most of tgeincudence is in poorer areas. NI is poorer than the South

https://mobile.twitter.com/peterdonaghy/status/1317918641279651842


https://www.nisra.gov.uk/statistics/deprivation/northern-ireland-multiple-deprivation-measure-2017-nimdm2017

Being a place over 3 times the size smaller than it's southern 'friends' it naturally won't generate as much

The 'competition' between the north and south of the country put up by certain posters really lets them down and doesn't paint a good picture of views in the south about the north.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 17, 2020, 09:04:24 AM
Facts is facts :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 17, 2020, 09:22:40 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 17, 2020, 12:52:25 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 16, 2020, 08:51:21 PM
What else do you want people to do here, you do understand that people cannot stay at home 24/7.

Give us your solution here, I am genuinely interested. I appreciate you are obviously frustrated, as we all are.


They didn't need to go at a crowed time. They are part of the problem. Also there are people clearly in two and threes, one person can go to the shop and buy anything needed, the rest are just causing a problem.

Yeah look I get this. But again, my point is, when you ban everyone from doing absolutely everything else. Narrow down what they can do.....don't you think that is going to concentrate people to that particular area?

There must be a better way than banning people doing things and funnelling them basically towards the same "essential" shops.

I agree with your points but I don't think you guys are recognising the vital component these days - People are not afraid of Covid anymore. They've heard it all. A common one I hear regularly in public is "Do you know anyone even has it?". This forum is detached from the reality of the general public right now, not necessarily in a bad way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 17, 2020, 09:23:39 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 08:16:31 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 17, 2020, 06:33:18 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 16, 2020, 05:43:01 PM
The north's death rate compared to the south is terrible
Underfunded for to long
The big shots up the hill not given one fuk
It's time there were held accountable for such a poor health service
The numbers did not go down so the last lockdown had no affect
Where to from here?

Tge North has 4 times the Covid incidence of the South

https://mobile.twitter.com/SeaninGraham22/status/1339274488844857344

8/12 hospitals are operating beyond capacity
Most of tgeincudence is in poorer areas. NI is poorer than the South

https://mobile.twitter.com/peterdonaghy/status/1317918641279651842


https://www.nisra.gov.uk/statistics/deprivation/northern-ireland-multiple-deprivation-measure-2017-nimdm2017

Being a place over 3 times the size smaller than it's southern 'friends' it naturally won't generate as much

The 'competition' between the north and south of the country put up by certain posters really lets them down and doesn't paint a good picture of views in the south about the north.

Some of the comments are inflammatory and bordering on gloating on one death rate being better than the other.

Vile.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2020, 10:05:03 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 17, 2020, 07:23:25 AM
While I think the whole thing has been handled poorly up here there are deeper things going on than just that for the spread up here. Why it is a bigger issue in poorer areas needs to be looked at.

Also when you think about it some of those hospitals have a massive catchment area. (Moreso the ones outside Belfast)

We are well oversubscribed with hospitals for a population of 1.8 million, it is just each facility has been run into the ground by Stormont and Westminster
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 10:26:01 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2020, 09:04:24 AM
Facts is facts :-\

Its a be skewed no? lets go like for like. maybe if we looked at a country with 4 million and similar size then that would be a better fact?

Use Denmark or Finland as a measure
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 17, 2020, 10:36:35 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2020, 10:05:03 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 17, 2020, 07:23:25 AM
While I think the whole thing has been handled poorly up here there are deeper things going on than just that for the spread up here. Why it is a bigger issue in poorer areas needs to be looked at.

Also when you think about it some of those hospitals have a massive catchment area. (Moreso the ones outside Belfast)

We are well oversubscribed with hospitals for a population of 1.8 million, it is just each facility has been run into the ground by Stormont and Westminster

Yeah that's my feeling too. The whole thing was f**ked anyway. This has just made it more f**ked.

The NHS under a tory government was/is always going to be run into the ground. Those 3 years have come back to haunt us here too. Those 3 years where significant numbers of people were being paid to do a job they weren't doing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 17, 2020, 10:52:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 10:26:01 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2020, 09:04:24 AM
Facts is facts :-\

Its a be skewed no? lets go like for like. maybe if we looked at a country with 4 million and similar size then that would be a better fact?

Use Denmark or Finland as a measure
The 26 Cos hasn't got a border with either of them.
If the 26 had the same rate of infection per 100,000 as the 6 has we'd be in an April type closedown.
But the DUP forced everything to open for a week and Foster is still blathering about not closing things.
Nobody's fkn gloating, just wishing ye lot would cop on a bit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: maddog on December 17, 2020, 10:54:36 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 17, 2020, 10:36:35 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2020, 10:05:03 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 17, 2020, 07:23:25 AM
While I think the whole thing has been handled poorly up here there are deeper things going on than just that for the spread up here. Why it is a bigger issue in poorer areas needs to be looked at.

Also when you think about it some of those hospitals have a massive catchment area. (Moreso the ones outside Belfast)

We are well oversubscribed with hospitals for a population of 1.8 million, it is just each facility has been run into the ground by Stormont and Westminster

Yeah that's my feeling too. The whole thing was f**ked anyway. This has just made it more f**ked.

The NHS under a tory government was/is always going to be run into the ground. Those 3 years have come back to haunt us here too. Those 3 years where significant numbers of people were being paid to do a job they weren't doing.

Tory policy - underfund it, demonstrate that it is broken and not fit for purpose. Privatise
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 17, 2020, 10:57:42 AM
Yeah - I would be very concerned that is what is at play here. The media are buying right into it too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 10:58:31 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2020, 10:52:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 10:26:01 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2020, 09:04:24 AM
Facts is facts :-\

Its a be skewed no? lets go like for like. maybe if we looked at a country with 4 million and similar size then that would be a better fact?

Use Denmark or Finland as a measure
The 26 Cos hasn't got a border with either of them.
If the 26 had the same rate of infection per 100,000 as the 6 has we'd be in an April type closedown.
But the DUP forced everything to open for a week and Foster is still blathering about not closing things.
Nobody's fkn gloating, just wishing ye lot would cop on a bit.

Its not like for like, have a bit of wit about ya
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 17, 2020, 11:16:12 AM
?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 11:34:00 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2020, 11:16:12 AM
?

We could compare figures across the world which have land borders, and show completely different results, in cases of Covid and which country was higher death rates, and which country has more money ffs, you and sefoid continually use us in the north as some sort of gauge ..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 17, 2020, 11:35:03 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2020, 10:52:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 10:26:01 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2020, 09:04:24 AM
Facts is facts :-\

Its a be skewed no? lets go like for like. maybe if we looked at a country with 4 million and similar size then that would be a better fact?

Use Denmark or Finland as a measure
The 26 Cos hasn't got a border with either of them.
If the 26 had the same rate of infection per 100,000 as the 6 has we'd be in an April type closedown.
But the DUP forced everything to open for a week and Foster is still blathering about not closing things.
Nobody's fkn gloating, just wishing ye lot would cop on a bit.

The Health Minister is blaming conspiracy theorists sure. Don't be fooled into thinking its all the DUP, that's the easy way out and the open goal. Whilst they are with flaw, obviously. The whole thing is being shown for what it is. They are beat when they don't have the usual pre scripted back and forth to keep the gravy train flowing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on December 17, 2020, 11:40:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 11:34:00 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2020, 11:16:12 AM
?

We could compare figures across the world which have land borders, and show completely different results, in cases of Covid and which country was higher death rates, and which country has more money ffs, you and sefoid continually use us in the north as some sort of gauge ..
The North is dysfunctional on the eve of its 100th birthday.
Diane Dodds needs 70m to plug a hole in her department's budget left by the departure from the EU.
Why did she support Brexit ?

Brexit + Covid are putting huge stress on the Executive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 17, 2020, 11:45:22 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 17, 2020, 11:35:03 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2020, 10:52:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 10:26:01 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2020, 09:04:24 AM
Facts is facts :-\

Its a be skewed no? lets go like for like. maybe if we looked at a country with 4 million and similar size then that would be a better fact?

Use Denmark or Finland as a measure
The 26 Cos hasn't got a border with either of them.
If the 26 had the same rate of infection per 100,000 as the 6 has we'd be in an April type closedown.
But the DUP forced everything to open for a week and Foster is still blathering about not closing things.
Nobody's fkn gloating, just wishing ye lot would cop on a bit.

The Health Minister is blaming conspiracy theorists sure. Don't be fooled into thinking its all the DUP, that's the easy way out and the open goal. Whilst they are with flaw, obviously. The whole thing is being shown for what it is. They are beat when they don't have the usual pre scripted back and forth to keep the gravy train flowing.

Exactly. I despise the DUP but this is not all on them. They are a bunch of bigoted, money grabbing hypocrites however the influence they had was on one week of this. While that didn't help there has been a lot more to it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on December 17, 2020, 12:10:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2020, 10:52:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 10:26:01 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2020, 09:04:24 AM
Facts is facts :-\

Its a be skewed no? lets go like for like. maybe if we looked at a country with 4 million and similar size then that would be a better fact?

Use Denmark or Finland as a measure
The 26 Cos hasn't got a border with either of them.
If the 26 had the same rate of infection per 100,000 as the 6 has we'd be in an April type closedown.
But the DUP forced everything to open for a week and Foster is still blathering about not closing things.
Nobody's fkn gloating, just wishing ye lot would cop on a bit.

The Executive are going to have another shutdown 3 days after Christmas

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/ni-shutdown-due-three-days-after-christmas-39872774.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 17, 2020, 12:14:52 PM
Hardly much point doing it 3 days after Xmas.

If the problem is as bad as the Health Minister continually says, it should be done now. No ifs or buts.

Same annoying nonsense. Only drives people away from the cause.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 12:20:52 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 17, 2020, 12:14:52 PM
Hardly much point doing it 3 days after Xmas.

If the problem is as bad as the Health Minister continually says, it should be done now. No ifs or buts.

Same annoying nonsense. Only drives people away from the cause.

Pointless having the shut downs, no one is actually doing anything about it, people are continually breaking the rules and schools are still open...

Kids are coming home from school and heading out with their mates, why should parents stop them if they are allowed to see the same kids in school?!!

But that's right, covid actually knows who's who and won't infect them, silly of me...

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 17, 2020, 12:23:49 PM
Speaking of the schools, this one slipped out last night without much fanfare.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/covid-19-all-pupils-at-kerry-school-told-to-remain-at-home-after-17-confirmed-cases-1.4438844
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 17, 2020, 02:48:18 PM
Another 656 cases in da Nart today and another 12 people have died. RIP.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 17, 2020, 02:59:12 PM
 :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 17, 2020, 03:17:47 PM
Six week lockdown - should keep everyone here happy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55339234 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55339234)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 17, 2020, 03:20:35 PM
Probably not though - 6 months wouldn't be long enough for some!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 17, 2020, 03:21:48 PM
Either lockdown or don't Seaney. They haven't been locking down at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 17, 2020, 04:14:15 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 17, 2020, 12:23:49 PM
Speaking of the schools, this one slipped out last night without much fanfare.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/covid-19-all-pupils-at-kerry-school-told-to-remain-at-home-after-17-confirmed-cases-1.4438844

https://twitter.com/JurassicArse/status/1339326031040274436?s=19

Covid mysteriously discovered in schools as they are due to close for a period of time anyway, seems to be the take away point - assuming this guy is a teacher.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 17, 2020, 04:36:58 PM
A lot of people seem to have a bee in their bonnet about schools. Yes, schools will tranmit the virus to some extent but they are not the main driver. It is perfectly reasonable to close one down if it becomes an important driver, but if Covid is widespread in Killorglin then the pubs and non essential shops should be closed too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on December 17, 2020, 05:25:32 PM
It's one of the several main drivers! And all of the other main drivers have been lockdown or heavily restricted at various times. St. Ronan's and Lismore in Lurgan have nearly 3000 children attending them each day. All of those 3000 go home each day back into the community.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 17, 2020, 05:37:10 PM
In a town or place with particular problems then by all means close schools, if you have also closed all the non essential activities and people commuting into and out of that town.

Meanwhile, it says on the news there that the Freestate is sending ambulances to help out in the North.
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1217/1184956-north-executive-covid/

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 17, 2020, 05:48:09 PM
The North is a horror show, but ROI seem very keen to deflect attention to the North at every juncture, poltical deflection tactics 101. Some here fall for it every time. I had to laugh a while back when Letterkenny's infection rate was very high, they were still blaming cross border activities even tho Derry & Strabane's figures had went from the highest in the UK to one of the lowest in the same period.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on December 17, 2020, 05:48:52 PM
Meanwhile, in the lockdown free utopia that is Sweden...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55347021
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 17, 2020, 06:10:33 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 17, 2020, 05:48:09 PM
The North is a horror show, but ROI seem very keen to deflect attention to the North at every juncture, poltical deflection tactics 101. Some here fall for it every time. I had to laugh a while back when Letterkenny's infection rate was very high, they were still blaming cross border activities even tho Derry & Strabane's figures had went from the highest in the UK to one of the lowest in the same period.

If the rate is higher in Derry than Letterkenny is it not reasonable to suppose that the flow is in that direction, especially since shops and suchlike remained open in Derry. There hasn't been any time since October that the rate has not been higher in Derry than Letterkenny.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 17, 2020, 06:21:34 PM
Nope, they flip flopped.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 17, 2020, 06:24:43 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 17, 2020, 06:21:34 PM
Nope, they flip flopped.

Who flip flopped?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 17, 2020, 06:47:35 PM
Ah ffs, the 2 areas, for a period, but it was still the black north's fault.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 17, 2020, 06:58:40 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 17, 2020, 06:47:35 PM
Ah ffs, the 2 areas, for a period, but it was still the black north's fault.

I don't think they did. There are some high rates in Inishowen, but that is a relatively small number cases in a small population, but I do not think rates generally in Donegal were ever higher. If you have data to the contrary, then fine. There is frustration at the refusal of the North to coordinate things in any meaningful way.

That said, the rate in Kilkenny is just as high as Donegal and it is hard to blame Robin Swann for that.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: illdecide on December 17, 2020, 07:15:02 PM
A new lockdown in Northern Ireland will begin on 26 December, it is understood.

Non-essential shops in NI will close from the end of trading on Christmas Eve in a bid to stop the spread of Covid-19.

The Stormont Executive will review the measures after four weeks.

Close-contact services, such as hair salons, will have to shut and pubs, cafes and restaurants will be restricted to delivering takeaway services.

However, it is understood people from up to three households in Northern Ireland will still be able to meet over the festive period in so-called Christmas "bubbles".

It follows a previous agreement between the UK nations to stick to plans to allow three households to mix between 23 and 27 December.

The new lockdown is being imposed in response to rising numbers of cases of the virus in Northern Ireland.

On Thursday, a further 12 Covid-linked deaths were recorded in NI and a further 656 cases of the virus.

It is understood the rules will include:

Closure of all non-essential retail, including garden centres and homeware shops that previously were deemed essential
Click-and-collect services will not be permitted
Closure of close contact services such as hair and beauty salons
Hospitality businesses will only be allowed to offer takeaway and delivery
Ministers had been presented with three potential start dates for the lockdown: 19 December, 26 December or 2 January, and the executive has been meeting throughout Thursday to agree on the measures.

It is thought that during the first week of lockdown, essential shops allowed to stay open could have to shut by 20:00 GMT each day.

During this week, people would also not be allowed to meet others in private gardens, while restrictions on indoor visits to people's homes will remain in place.

Health officials have also proposed measures to limit the reopening of schools in January.

It is understood a package of interventions will be drawn up by the education and health departments and further discussions on this issue will take place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: illdecide on December 17, 2020, 07:15:51 PM
Does the bit in bold mean that you can only open if you provide a delivery service?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on December 17, 2020, 07:39:38 PM
New rules and restrictions coming into effect for the Christmas period in the south. This is an example of the government going back on its word. We were told the last lockdown was to allow us to be able to celebrate Christmas. We knew covid figures were going to rise after the lockdown ended. Have another lockdown after Christmas but allow us to enjoy Christmas as we were promised.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 17, 2020, 07:48:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 17, 2020, 06:58:40 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 17, 2020, 06:47:35 PM
Ah ffs, the 2 areas, for a period, but it was still the black north's fault.

I don't think they did. There are some high rates in Inishowen, but that is a relatively small number cases in a small population, but I do not think rates generally in Donegal were ever higher. If you have data to the contrary, then fine. There is frustration at the refusal of the North to coordinate things in any meaningful way.

That said, the rate in Kilkenny is just as high as Donegal and it is hard to blame Robin Swann for that.
It was specifically Letterkenny v Derry numbers, it was reported in the Irish News a few weeks back, but again my point was it was the cross border activity being blamed - not the schools, university, factories or whatever else in Letterkenny. A classic case of Poltical deflection or diversion. Its bought day & daily by the public across the world, when you're diverted you're not scrutinising what's in front of you (& I accept overall ROI has done well).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 17, 2020, 08:00:15 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on December 17, 2020, 07:39:38 PM
New rules and restrictions coming into effect for the Christmas period in the south. This is an example of the government going back on its word. We were told the last lockdown was to allow us to be able to celebrate Christmas. We knew covid figures were going to rise after the lockdown ended. Have another lockdown after Christmas but allow us to enjoy Christmas as we were promised.

How can you say that the government "went back on its word". It got the lowest rates in Europe, opened up for Christmas and some people did not conduct themselves responsibly, so they ran out of time sooner that they hoped.

Quote from: bennydorano on December 17, 2020, 07:48:09 PM
It was specifically Letterkenny v Derry numbers, it was reported in the Irish News a few weeks back, but again my point was it was the cross border activity being blamed - not the schools, university, factories or whatever else in Letterkenny. A classic case of Poltical deflection or diversion. Its bought day & daily by the public across the world, when you're diverted you're not scrutinising what's in front of you (& I accept overall ROI has done well).

Nevertheless, the regime in Derry for most that time was more lax than in Letterkenny because of political bollocking around in Stormont.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on December 17, 2020, 08:30:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 17, 2020, 08:00:15 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on December 17, 2020, 07:39:38 PM
New rules and restrictions coming into effect for the Christmas period in the south. This is an example of the government going back on its word. We were told the last lockdown was to allow us to be able to celebrate Christmas. We knew covid figures were going to rise after the lockdown ended. Have another lockdown after Christmas but allow us to enjoy Christmas as we were promised.

How can you say that the government "went back on its word". It got the lowest rates in Europe, opened up for Christmas and some people did not conduct themselves responsibly, so they ran out of time sooner that they

People sacrificed for Christmas and made plans on that basis, now the government are backtracking. People will die, we know that. We know that we will have to sacrifice somewhere along the line but not Christmas. That is my point of view.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2020, 08:33:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 17, 2020, 08:00:15 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on December 17, 2020, 07:39:38 PM
New rules and restrictions coming into effect for the Christmas period in the south. This is an example of the government going back on its word. We were told the last lockdown was to allow us to be able to celebrate Christmas. We knew covid figures were going to rise after the lockdown ended. Have another lockdown after Christmas but allow us to enjoy Christmas as we were promised.

How can you say that the government "went back on its word". It got the lowest rates in Europe, opened up for Christmas and some people did not conduct themselves responsibly, so they ran out of time sooner that they hoped.

Quote from: bennydorano on December 17, 2020, 07:48:09 PM
It was specifically Letterkenny v Derry numbers, it was reported in the Irish News a few weeks back, but again my point was it was the cross border activity being blamed - not the schools, university, factories or whatever else in Letterkenny. A classic case of Poltical deflection or diversion. Its bought day & daily by the public across the world, when you're diverted you're not scrutinising what's in front of you (& I accept overall ROI has done well).

Nevertheless, the regime in Derry for most that time was more lax than in Letterkenny because of political bollocking around in Stormont.

Im in both jurisdictions every day. Marked difference from the beginning. ROI much better, Inishowen was very high also mind you, but generally better leadership  in ROI lead to better compliance and less cases. The famous shinner funeral started a steady decline compounded by DUP incompetence
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 17, 2020, 08:35:23 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on December 17, 2020, 08:30:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 17, 2020, 08:00:15 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on December 17, 2020, 07:39:38 PM
New rules and restrictions coming into effect for the Christmas period in the south. This is an example of the government going back on its word. We were told the last lockdown was to allow us to be able to celebrate Christmas. We knew covid figures were going to rise after the lockdown ended. Have another lockdown after Christmas but allow us to enjoy Christmas as we were promised.

How can you say that the government "went back on its word". It got the lowest rates in Europe, opened up for Christmas and some people did not conduct themselves responsibly, so they ran out of time sooner that they

People sacrificed for Christmas and made plans on that basis, now the government are backtracking. People will die, we know that. We know that we will have to sacrifice somewhere along the line but not Christmas. That is my point of view.

Nobody is proposing changing Christmas, unless you count the 12 days. They are likely to reduce things for the New Year though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 17, 2020, 08:41:34 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on December 17, 2020, 07:39:38 PM
New rules and restrictions coming into effect for the Christmas period in the south. This is an example of the government going back on its word. We were told the last lockdown was to allow us to be able to celebrate Christmas. We knew covid figures were going to rise after the lockdown ended. Have another lockdown after Christmas but allow us to enjoy Christmas as we were promised.

Is it the government's fault that a huge swathe of the population didn't follow the lockdown?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on December 17, 2020, 08:47:50 PM
Quote from: illdecide on December 17, 2020, 07:15:02 PM
A new lockdown in Northern Ireland will begin on 26 December, it is understood.

Non-essential shops in NI will close from the end of trading on Christmas Eve in a bid to stop the spread of Covid-19.

The Stormont Executive will review the measures after four weeks.

Close-contact services, such as hair salons, will have to shut and pubs, cafes and restaurants will be restricted to delivering takeaway services.

However, it is understood people from up to three households in Northern Ireland will still be able to meet over the festive period in so-called Christmas "bubbles".

It follows a previous agreement between the UK nations to stick to plans to allow three households to mix between 23 and 27 December.

The new lockdown is being imposed in response to rising numbers of cases of the virus in Northern Ireland.

On Thursday, a further 12 Covid-linked deaths were recorded in NI and a further 656 cases of the virus.

It is understood the rules will include:

Closure of all non-essential retail, including garden centres and homeware shops that previously were deemed essential
Click-and-collect services will not be permitted
Closure of close contact services such as hair and beauty salons
Hospitality businesses will only be allowed to offer takeaway and delivery
Ministers had been presented with three potential start dates for the lockdown: 19 December, 26 December or 2 January, and the executive has been meeting throughout Thursday to agree on the measures.

It is thought that during the first week of lockdown, essential shops allowed to stay open could have to shut by 20:00 GMT each day.

During this week, people would also not be allowed to meet others in private gardens, while restrictions on indoor visits to people's homes will remain in place.

Health officials have also proposed measures to limit the reopening of schools in January.

It is understood a package of interventions will be drawn up by the education and health departments and further discussions on this issue will take place.
Will.there be a repeat of this spoken word performance ?


https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/video-news/first-minister-arlene-foster-outlines-new-covid-restrictions-39623403.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 08:58:52 PM
This lockdown will not bring numbers down unless schools are closed, or rules are enforced!

Nobody in big numbers it seems has followed the rules in the north, what will change?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on December 17, 2020, 09:14:18 PM
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/coronavirus-northern-ireland-situation-is-dire-says-oneill-after-executive-agrees-six-week-lockdown-starting-on-boxing-day-39873751.html

In care homes there are currently 86 active outbreaks of the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on December 17, 2020, 09:15:41 PM
I think it's more to do with areas than schools.

It looks like a BT thing...and schools can be hit as an offshoot of that.

I know Belfast schools were badly hit before Halloween. Since then it has been fairly sporadic and for some non-existent.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 17, 2020, 09:17:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 17, 2020, 09:14:18 PM
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/coronavirus-northern-ireland-situation-is-dire-says-oneill-after-executive-agrees-six-week-lockdown-starting-on-boxing-day-39873751.html

In care homes there are currently 86 active outbreaks of the virus.

This is an aspect of things that should be well improved in a month or two, when the vaccines get into these care homes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on December 17, 2020, 09:24:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 08:58:52 PM
This lockdown will not bring numbers down unless schools are closed, or rules are enforced!

Nobody in big numbers it seems has followed the rules in the north, what will change?

Weekly numbers in the 26 counties came down from 1175 per day weekly average to 254 with schools open in early December. Not sure what's going on the 6 counties but even with more restrictions the same compliance doesn't seem to be there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on December 17, 2020, 09:29:17 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 17, 2020, 09:24:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 08:58:52 PM
This lockdown will not bring numbers down unless schools are closed, or rules are enforced!

Nobody in big numbers it seems has followed the rules in the north, what will change?

Weekly numbers in the 26 counties came down from 1175 per day weekly average to 254 with schools open in early December. Not sure what's going on the 6 counties but even with more restrictions the same compliance doesn't seem to be there.

That's an interesting study...the mindset of the 26er v the 6er.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2020, 09:45:43 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 17, 2020, 08:41:34 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on December 17, 2020, 07:39:38 PM
New rules and restrictions coming into effect for the Christmas period in the south. This is an example of the government going back on its word. We were told the last lockdown was to allow us to be able to celebrate Christmas. We knew covid figures were going to rise after the lockdown ended. Have another lockdown after Christmas but allow us to enjoy Christmas as we were promised.

Is it the government's fault that a huge swathe of the population didn't follow the lockdown?
Partly
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2020, 09:47:27 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 17, 2020, 09:24:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 08:58:52 PM
This lockdown will not bring numbers down unless schools are closed, or rules are enforced!

Nobody in big numbers it seems has followed the rules in the north, what will change?

Weekly numbers in the 26 counties came down from 1175 per day weekly average to 254 with schools open in early December. Not sure what's going on the 6 counties but even with more restrictions the same compliance doesn't seem to be there.

Yeah seen that ,interesting stat
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 09:56:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2020, 09:47:27 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 17, 2020, 09:24:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 08:58:52 PM
This lockdown will not bring numbers down unless schools are closed, or rules are enforced!

Nobody in big numbers it seems has followed the rules in the north, what will change?

Weekly numbers in the 26 counties came down from 1175 per day weekly average to 254 with schools open in early December. Not sure what's going on the 6 counties but even with more restrictions the same compliance doesn't seem to be there.

Yeah seen that ,interesting stat

So if the numbers continue while everything is closed can we then look at why things are not being dropped or enforced?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2020, 10:09:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 09:56:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2020, 09:47:27 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 17, 2020, 09:24:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 08:58:52 PM
This lockdown will not bring numbers down unless schools are closed, or rules are enforced!

Nobody in big numbers it seems has followed the rules in the north, what will change?

Weekly numbers in the 26 counties came down from 1175 per day weekly average to 254 with schools open in early December. Not sure what's going on the 6 counties but even with more restrictions the same compliance doesn't seem to be there.

Yeah seen that ,interesting stat

So if the numbers continue while everything is closed can we then look at why things are not being dropped or enforced?

We could and should . Personally I never seen the schools as big spreader, as I've said before i was in eye of the storm here in Derry knowing a very large number of people who got it including myself and 2 relatives. I heard virtually nobody cite schools as a source of their infection here although no doubt it probably did occur in small numbers. I think schools staying open by far outweigh benefits of closing them. Just my personal opinion , and oddly enough my children's too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on December 17, 2020, 10:15:08 PM
I think everyone wants to keep the schools open. It's best for the children and of course everyone's sanity. But over the past while I've heard nothing but reports of positive cases in many schools. Some schools having to close because of outbreaks or because so many of the staff have tested positive. I think on this occasion it is best to close the schools for a month anyway. Move the February midterm forward and they'll only miss maybe 2 and a bit weeks of school.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 17, 2020, 10:24:12 PM
No travel restrictions either?? Is that to allow all the politicians to go to their holiday homes for New Years?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: FermGael on December 17, 2020, 10:37:15 PM
They are not going to call schools until early next week.
You could not make this up......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 10:47:28 PM
If kids don't get symptoms they won't get tested and schools are not getting looked at.

But if mum or dad or friends or work colleagues of these are getting it then it's very likely it will lift the numbers.

My wife is adamant that that schools don't drive this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on December 17, 2020, 11:01:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 10:47:28 PM
If kids don't get symptoms they won't get tested and schools are not getting looked at.

But if mum or dad or friends or work colleagues of these are getting it then it's very likely it will lift the numbers.

My wife is adamant that that schools don't drive this

There is no evidence they do, no matter what anecdotal evidence there is. Of course if there is high community transmission it will also be in schools

Those squealing about the schools usually have a vested interest 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 11:07:00 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 17, 2020, 11:01:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 17, 2020, 10:47:28 PM
If kids don't get symptoms they won't get tested and schools are not getting looked at.

But if mum or dad or friends or work colleagues of these are getting it then it's very likely it will lift the numbers.

My wife is adamant that that schools don't drive this

There is no evidence they do, no matter what anecdotal evidence there is. Of course if there is high community transmission it will also be in schools

Those squealing about the schools usually have a vested interest

My wife is a school teacher and would be happy to be closed but feels schools are not the areas where it's happening. So vested interest?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 17, 2020, 11:26:38 PM
Please, let's stop the pretence here. Let's call it what it is.

https://twitter.com/AlastairDonaghy/status/1339586460467355649?s=20
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on December 18, 2020, 12:09:01 AM
the sick counties don't have to follow any rules, does everyone not know they are superior  ;)

an absolute sh*tshow since march

a lockdown with no travel restrictions and multiple trips per day to the shop is pointless imo  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 18, 2020, 12:19:34 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 17, 2020, 11:26:38 PM
Please, let's stop the pretence here. Let's call it what it is.

https://twitter.com/AlastairDonaghy/status/1339586460467355649?s=20

Who is he?

Anyhow there has been 50k plus cases here, so agsin you can see logic in keeping schools open with those numbers even if they are accurate
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on December 18, 2020, 12:29:45 AM
As an aside, was there not some plan to give families a £100 voucher? In order to get money into local shops etc.

Is it scrapped or was it just a soundbite?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 18, 2020, 12:30:51 AM
Quote from: marty34 on December 18, 2020, 12:29:45 AM
As an aside, was there not some plan to give families a £100 voucher? In order to get money into local shops etc.

Is it scrapped or was it just a soundbite?

Think planned for new year but yeah maybe get pushed out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 18, 2020, 07:17:20 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 18, 2020, 12:19:34 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 17, 2020, 11:26:38 PM
Please, let's stop the pretence here. Let's call it what it is.

https://twitter.com/AlastairDonaghy/status/1339586460467355649?s=20

Who is he?

Anyhow there has been 50k plus cases here, so agsin you can see logic in keeping schools open with those numbers even if they are accurate


How many did those number spread it to? How many were asymptomatic? How many weren't tested?

Again I think every attempt should be made to keep schools open as much as possible but I can not see why they get totally discounted from being a part of the problem.

The word driver seems to be focused on with schools here. They are probably not a driver but they are a good vehicle to transmit it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on December 18, 2020, 07:55:57 AM
Look at the outcomes (much better than here) in the south with schools remaining open
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on December 18, 2020, 07:57:49 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 18, 2020, 12:19:34 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 17, 2020, 11:26:38 PM
Please, let's stop the pretence here. Let's call it what it is.

https://twitter.com/AlastairDonaghy/status/1339586460467355649?s=20

Who is he?

Anyhow there has been 50k plus cases here, so agsin you can see logic in keeping schools open with those numbers even if they are accurate

But remember schools were closed until Sept - so there was nothing to contribute to the overall number coming from schools prior to Sept.

And then you need to think about who the kids are spreading it to at home (asymptomatic or not)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 18, 2020, 08:14:13 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 18, 2020, 07:55:57 AM
Look at the outcomes (much better than here) in the south with schools remaining open

I still don't think that means schools can't be a problem. Driving force or not.

I don't think they are specifically the problem and should be kept open as much as possible but reading here you would seriously believe that the problem in the north is those pesky northerners just not following rules. There is a lot more to it. There are demographic studies that should come out of this.

As SF posted I doubt it is any coincidence that poorer areas get hit harder. Why is that? You only have to read back to some posts from a poster here talking about sick pay in factories. No sick pay means someone without any money goes without food so they go in sick. That spreads further. What happens then? It goes to a child who's in school. What happens then? The child gives it to another child who spreads it about etc. The family of the worker and their workplaces get hit too.

Things like the above are obviously not proven fact however scenarios like that are bound to arise.

There is so much more to this being an issue in the north than pesky northerners not following the rules. There is demographics, lack of faith in government, poor rules being made by government and the list could probably go on.

Also things are magnified by how run down the health service has become.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 18, 2020, 09:01:37 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 18, 2020, 08:14:13 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 18, 2020, 07:55:57 AM
Look at the outcomes (much better than here) in the south with schools remaining open

I still don't think that means schools can't be a problem. Driving force or not.

I don't think they are specifically the problem and should be kept open as much as possible but reading here you would seriously believe that the problem in the north is those pesky northerners just not following rules. There is a lot more to it. There are demographic studies that should come out of this.

As SF posted I doubt it is any coincidence that poorer areas get hit harder. Why is that? You only have to read back to some posts from a poster here talking about sick pay in factories. No sick pay means someone without any money goes without food so they go in sick. That spreads further. What happens then? It goes to a child who's in school. What happens then? The child gives it to another child who spreads it about etc. The family of the worker and their workplaces get hit too.

Things like the above are obviously not proven fact however scenarios like that are bound to arise.

There is so much more to this being an issue in the north than pesky northerners not following the rules. There is demographics, lack of faith in government, poor rules being made by government and the list could probably go on.

Also things are magnified by how run down the health service has become.

Good post
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on December 18, 2020, 09:29:12 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 17, 2020, 11:26:38 PM
Please, let's stop the pretence here. Let's call it what it is.

https://twitter.com/AlastairDonaghy/status/1339586460467355649?s=20

How are cases of school transmission recorded?

Presumably, if a staff member/ pupil picks the thing up in the school that will be recorded as a school transmission.

But when that staff member/ pupil goes home and passes it to the three/ four/ five family members with which they share a house*, how are those cases recorded? I'm guessing those go down in the stats as cases of 'household' transmission.

It's easy to see how the impact of schools could be greatly understated.

*Anecdotal and all, but I'm aware of two separate families in my area where this exact thing has just happened.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 09:39:12 AM
Out of interest. What have the excess deaths been like in Sept, Oct and Nov?

Or when will we get these figures?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 18, 2020, 10:03:39 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on December 18, 2020, 09:29:12 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 17, 2020, 11:26:38 PM
Please, let's stop the pretence here. Let's call it what it is.

https://twitter.com/AlastairDonaghy/status/1339586460467355649?s=20

How are cases of school transmission recorded?

Presumably, if a staff member/ pupil picks the thing up in the school that will be recorded as a school transmission.

But when that staff member/ pupil goes home and passes it to the three/ four/ five family members with which they share a house*, how are those cases recorded? I'm guessing those go down in the stats as cases of 'household' transmission.

It's easy to see how the impact of schools could be greatly understated.

*Anecdotal and all, but I'm aware of two separate families in my area where this exact thing has just happened.

We'll never those figures and that type of detail. Not to go conspiratorial on it, but probably for good reason. Same way we never get the names of the people who die daily from Covid or their ages. You become kind of numb to 9/10/11/12 deaths a day.

I truly don't get the people that welcome a total lockdown, but are just fine with the schools staying open. It's like locking the back door at night but leaving the keys in the front door.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 18, 2020, 10:06:04 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 09:39:12 AM
Out of interest. What have the excess deaths been like in Sept, Oct and Nov?

Or when will we get these figures?
They have been printed in the UK Times every day this week. I think their figures are England and Wales specific tho., recent weekly excess deaths 15% greater than the 5 year average.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:08:18 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 18, 2020, 10:06:04 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 09:39:12 AM
Out of interest. What have the excess deaths been like in Sept, Oct and Nov?

Or when will we get these figures?
They have been printed in the UK Times every day this week. I think their figures are England and Wales specific tho., recent weekly excess deaths 15% greater than the 5 year average.

5 year average?

What about a bad winter flu season?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 18, 2020, 10:08:35 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on December 18, 2020, 09:29:12 AM
It's easy to see how the impact of schools could be greatly understated.

In schools you sit in a desk with a certain set of people around you. For tracing purposes this is ideal and it is more likely that schools are better measured than most other activities.

There is a general point here is that there is not enough testing and tracing, especially in the 6 counties. The only real alternative to a general lockdown is a local lockdown around people who have Covid by isolating all of their contacts.

I note in England that they are going to test everyone in schools.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 18, 2020, 10:30:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:08:18 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 18, 2020, 10:06:04 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 09:39:12 AM
Out of interest. What have the excess deaths been like in Sept, Oct and Nov?

Or when will we get these figures?
They have been printed in the UK Times every day this week. I think their figures are England and Wales specific tho., recent weekly excess deaths 15% greater than the 5 year average.

5 year average?

What about a bad winter flu season?
What about them? Sept, Oct & Nov are not Winter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:38:26 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 18, 2020, 10:30:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 10:08:18 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 18, 2020, 10:06:04 AM
Quote from: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 09:39:12 AM
Out of interest. What have the excess deaths been like in Sept, Oct and Nov?

Or when will we get these figures?
They have been printed in the UK Times every day this week. I think their figures are England and Wales specific tho., recent weekly excess deaths 15% greater than the 5 year average.

5 year average?

What about a bad winter flu season?
What about them? Sept, Oct & Nov are not Winter.

Nov is generally where the winter flu begins to take up.

We had a very bad flu season in 17/18.

I'd like to see the excess deaths contrast this winter with 17/18.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on December 18, 2020, 10:44:52 AM
NISRA provide these stats every week. From the w/e 2/10 to w/e 11/12 684 more people have died than the 5 year average. That's over 20% more deaths than the 5 year average.

There are a lot of people trying to make out the cases are all made up due to a flawed test. And I do have doubts over those numbers but it is obvious that once the case numbers rise the numbers in hospitals rise and then the number of deaths. A lot of ill informed fools out there trying to argue otherwise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on December 18, 2020, 10:52:28 AM
Even comparing week for week from 2/10 versus the maximum deaths in the corresponding week in the last 5 years there is still 368 excess deaths (over 10%). And that is with restrictions in and people constantly being told to practice social distancing. If it was let run it's course totally like the dup wanted we would be in serious bother now. As it is 100's of excess deaths is extremely bad and disgusting that many people don't seem to care.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 18, 2020, 10:55:42 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 18, 2020, 10:52:28 AM
Even comparing week for week from 2/10 versus the maximum deaths in the corresponding week in the last 5 years there is still 368 excess deaths (over 10%). And that is with restrictions in and people constantly being told to practice social distancing. If it was let run it's course totally like the dup wanted we would be in serious bother now. As it is 100's of excess deaths is extremely bad and disgusting that many people don't seem to care.

This time last year nobody cared about anybody dying on this board, nobody cared about anyone in care homes. Nobody cared about the homeless, nobody cared about people flooding the streets with drugs, nobody cared about a lot of things.

Since Covid has come along and many people now worry about their own mortality, we've been shown up for what we are. Selfish. To be honest, I still feel Covid pales in comparison to a lot of these issues but it definitely is the only show in town. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on December 18, 2020, 11:23:34 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 18, 2020, 10:55:42 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 18, 2020, 10:52:28 AM
Even comparing week for week from 2/10 versus the maximum deaths in the corresponding week in the last 5 years there is still 368 excess deaths (over 10%). And that is with restrictions in and people constantly being told to practice social distancing. If it was let run it's course totally like the dup wanted we would be in serious bother now. As it is 100's of excess deaths is extremely bad and disgusting that many people don't seem to care.

This time last year nobody cared about anybody dying on this board, nobody cared about anyone in care homes. Nobody cared about the homeless, nobody cared about people flooding the streets with drugs, nobody cared about a lot of things.

Since Covid has come along and many people now worry about their own mortality, we've been shown up for what we are. Selfish. To be honest, I still feel Covid pales in comparison to a lot of these issues but it definitely is the only show in town.

I'm really confused by your logic here. Most of the people that die in an average year are due to natural causes that can't be prevented. The medical world tries to find treatments for all illnesses - sometimes successful sometimes not. Governments put in regulations around the use of cars for example to try to make them safe and put in place speed limits and laws on drink driving etc.

Of course some deaths could be avoided. But I am really struggling to work out what your point is here. Do you think they should open everything up and let thousands die because there has been preventable deaths in other years caused by other things? And apart from the covid deaths let the hospitals get overwhelmed because they have been previously and no one cared?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 18, 2020, 11:37:36 AM
Your point was that 100s of excess deaths with Covid is extremely bad and disgusting.

I listed some things that also cause excess deaths and are equally bad and disgusting, homelessness, drug issues etc.

We, as a population didn't seem to care too much about these in the past. Maybe something to think about going forward. Or is it a case of, this doesn't affect me.....what odds.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on December 18, 2020, 12:46:12 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 18, 2020, 08:14:13 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 18, 2020, 07:55:57 AM
Look at the outcomes (much better than here) in the south with schools remaining open

I still don't think that means schools can't be a problem. Driving force or not.

I don't think they are specifically the problem and should be kept open as much as possible but reading here you would seriously believe that the problem in the north is those pesky northerners just not following rules. There is a lot more to it. There are demographic studies that should come out of this.

As SF posted I doubt it is any coincidence that poorer areas get hit harder. Why is that? You only have to read back to some posts from a poster here talking about sick pay in factories. No sick pay means someone without any money goes without food so they go in sick. That spreads further. What happens then? It goes to a child who's in school. What happens then? The child gives it to another child who spreads it about etc. The family of the worker and their workplaces get hit too.

Things like the above are obviously not proven fact however scenarios like that are bound to arise.

There is so much more to this being an issue in the north than pesky northerners not following the rules. There is demographics, lack of faith in government, poor rules being made by government and the list could probably go on.

Also things are magnified by how run down the health service has become.

I think non-compliance is the biggest issue in north.

In the second 'closedown', there was very little personal responsibility.  People did their own thing, then complain when there's another lockdown!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on December 18, 2020, 12:54:37 PM
That's basically the height of it marty34, we can blame the governments all we want, and very few countries have coped well, but it's hard when people just ignore the guidance and restrictions. And that's what has happened in the 6 counties
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on December 18, 2020, 12:54:44 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 18, 2020, 11:37:36 AM
Your point was that 100s of excess deaths with Covid is extremely bad and disgusting.

I listed some things that also cause excess deaths and are equally bad and disgusting, homelessness, drug issues etc.

We, as a population didn't seem to care too much about these in the past. Maybe something to think about going forward. Or is it a case of, this doesn't affect me.....what odds.

+1

Nobody cares unless it's a Covid death.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 18, 2020, 01:05:55 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 18, 2020, 12:54:37 PM
That's basically the height of it marty34, we can blame the governments all we want, and very few countries have coped well, but it's hard when people just ignore the guidance and restrictions. And that's what has happened in the 6 counties

You could argue its the governments fault in all the countries that haven't done well. A sh*t show everywhere Covid-19 wasn't taken seriously. And that attitude is what flows down to the public.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on December 18, 2020, 01:20:18 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 18, 2020, 11:23:34 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 18, 2020, 10:55:42 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on December 18, 2020, 10:52:28 AM
Even comparing week for week from 2/10 versus the maximum deaths in the corresponding week in the last 5 years there is still 368 excess deaths (over 10%). And that is with restrictions in and people constantly being told to practice social distancing. If it was let run it's course totally like the dup wanted we would be in serious bother now. As it is 100's of excess deaths is extremely bad and disgusting that many people don't seem to care.

This time last year nobody cared about anybody dying on this board, nobody cared about anyone in care homes. Nobody cared about the homeless, nobody cared about people flooding the streets with drugs, nobody cared about a lot of things.

Since Covid has come along and many people now worry about their own mortality, we've been shown up for what we are. Selfish. To be honest, I still feel Covid pales in comparison to a lot of these issues but it definitely is the only show in town.

I'm really confused by your logic here. Most of the people that die in an average year are due to natural causes that can't be prevented. The medical world tries to find treatments for all illnesses - sometimes successful sometimes not. Governments put in regulations around the use of cars for example to try to make them safe and put in place speed limits and laws on drink driving etc.

Of course some deaths could be avoided. But I am really struggling to work out what your point is here. Do you think they should open everything up and let thousands die because there has been preventable deaths in other years caused by other things? And apart from the covid deaths let the hospitals get overwhelmed because they have been previously and no one cared?

I think you're a pretty decent read on here RS though we disagree on a lot of the points round Covid and the response, but can I just say that can we stop just saying 'do you want to open everything up' when someone doesn't agree with lockdowns, there's a massive middle ground that can be reached that is neither lockdown or a free for all. the problem is now that the public have been constantly told one thing then another, places opening places closing etc that they've had enough.

this news has really hit hard, my business is considered 'close contact' we have not had 1 case, in fact, I haven't spoken to anyone else in our industry that has had a case due to work, few off isolating due to family members etc but nothing through work, yet we are gonna be closed down again? really hard to stomach, aye robin il enjoy my few days at Christmas ya so generously gave me then on Stephens day I can go back to worrying how im gonna come out the other end of this while you have your nice comfy job up in the hill looking down on us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 18, 2020, 01:26:30 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 18, 2020, 12:46:12 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 18, 2020, 08:14:13 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 18, 2020, 07:55:57 AM
Look at the outcomes (much better than here) in the south with schools remaining open

I still don't think that means schools can't be a problem. Driving force or not.

I don't think they are specifically the problem and should be kept open as much as possible but reading here you would seriously believe that the problem in the north is those pesky northerners just not following rules. There is a lot more to it. There are demographic studies that should come out of this.

As SF posted I doubt it is any coincidence that poorer areas get hit harder. Why is that? You only have to read back to some posts from a poster here talking about sick pay in factories. No sick pay means someone without any money goes without food so they go in sick. That spreads further. What happens then? It goes to a child who's in school. What happens then? The child gives it to another child who spreads it about etc. The family of the worker and their workplaces get hit too.

Things like the above are obviously not proven fact however scenarios like that are bound to arise.

There is so much more to this being an issue in the north than pesky northerners not following the rules. There is demographics, lack of faith in government, poor rules being made by government and the list could probably go on.

Also things are magnified by how run down the health service has become.

I think non-compliance is the biggest issue in north.

In the second 'closedown', there was very little personal responsibility.  People did their own thing, then complain when there's another lockdown!!

It is definitely a big issue issue - I fully agree on that - however there is much more to the spread etc of this than just non compliance.

To be honest I think how it's been dealt with in general basically sums up how dysfunctional this place is. It is very easy to just blame people and self entitlement but it goes from the top down and history is coming back to bite us on things like NHS funding, more "oppressed areas" not being invested in etc etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 18, 2020, 02:00:25 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 18, 2020, 12:54:37 PM
That's basically the height of it marty34, we can blame the governments all we want, and very few countries have coped well, but it's hard when people just ignore the guidance and restrictions. And that's what has happened in the 6 counties

Again I present Michelle "The Christmas Situation" O'Neill and the funeral.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on December 18, 2020, 02:07:40 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 18, 2020, 12:54:37 PM
That's basically the height of it marty34, we can blame the governments all we want, and very few countries have coped well, but it's hard when people just ignore the guidance and restrictions. And that's what has happened in the 6 counties

Few countries have coped so badly would be a better way of putting it. The DUP and SF can tell their wee internet armies that it's all the publics fault if it makes them feel better about their handling of it but the reality is

Sammy Wilson told people not to wear a mask
Edwin Poots said it was Catholics who were spreading it
SF orgnaised a huge funeral and political rally in the middle of it
DUP vetoed restrictions put forward by Dept of health
Michelle O'Neill undermined the message at every chance, schools initially back in March and then blamed the DUP at every bother turnaround
The NHS has undergone huge cuts in NI administered by SF and the DUP and then as bad as that was they took 3 years off.

So excuse me when people say the public aren't following the rules it's a bit f**king rich. SF and the DUP aren't fit to run a bath and would do everyone a massive favour if they resigned their posts and let people who know what they're doing take over. The blame lies squarely at Stormont's door.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 18, 2020, 02:24:01 PM
Who is everyones money on first to be caught breaking their own rules then flat out refusing to resign?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on December 18, 2020, 02:28:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 18, 2020, 02:00:25 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 18, 2020, 12:54:37 PM
That's basically the height of it marty34, we can blame the governments all we want, and very few countries have coped well, but it's hard when people just ignore the guidance and restrictions. And that's what has happened in the 6 counties

Again I present Michelle "The Christmas Situation" O'Neill and the funeral.

That whole funeral thing was an actual disgrace

Behaviour like that is exactly what leads to the general population's apathy towards guidelines at the minute

O'Neill should have been gone after that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 18, 2020, 02:30:35 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 18, 2020, 02:24:01 PM
Who is everyones money on first to be caught breaking their own rules then flat out refusing to resign?

Providing there's no funerals SF should be alright

Sammy Wilson will undoubtably be caught doing something

Hoping Poots gets caught

And Stephen Nolan

New Year's Eve will be a huge test. Bed by 11!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 18, 2020, 02:37:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 18, 2020, 02:30:35 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 18, 2020, 02:24:01 PM
Who is everyones money on first to be caught breaking their own rules then flat out refusing to resign?

Providing there's no funerals SF should be alright

Sammy Wilson will undoubtably be caught doing something

Hoping Poots gets caught

And Stephen Nolan

New Year's Eve will be a huge test. Bed by 11!!

And home by half 11. Giggity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 18, 2020, 05:30:01 PM
Sweden introduces a rake of restrictions including masks.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1218/1185189-covid-world/

Coronavirus for slow learners.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 18, 2020, 06:09:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 18, 2020, 02:30:35 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 18, 2020, 02:24:01 PM
Who is everyones money on first to be caught breaking their own rules then flat out refusing to resign?

Providing there's no funerals SF should be alright

Sammy Wilson will undoubtably be caught doing something

Hoping Poots gets caught

And Stephen Nolan

New Year's Eve will be a huge test. Bed by 11!!

No big miss. I can't f**king stand New Year's Eve.

It is the biggest load of shite of the whole year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on December 18, 2020, 06:37:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 18, 2020, 02:07:40 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 18, 2020, 12:54:37 PM
That's basically the height of it marty34, we can blame the governments all we want, and very few countries have coped well, but it's hard when people just ignore the guidance and restrictions. And that's what has happened in the 6 counties

Few countries have coped so badly would be a better way of putting it. The DUP and SF can tell their wee internet armies that it's all the publics fault if it makes them feel better about their handling of it but the reality is

Sammy Wilson told people not to wear a mask
Edwin Poots said it was Catholics who were spreading it
SF orgnaised a huge funeral and political rally in the middle of it
DUP vetoed restrictions put forward by Dept of health
Michelle O'Neill undermined the message at every chance, schools initially back in March and then blamed the DUP at every bother turnaround
The NHS has undergone huge cuts in NI administered by SF and the DUP and then as bad as that was they took 3 years off.

So excuse me when people say the public aren't following the rules it's a bit f**king rich. SF and the DUP aren't fit to run a bath and would do everyone a massive favour if they resigned their posts and let people who know what they're doing take over. The blame lies squarely at Stormont's door.

I'm not here to defend SF and Michelle O'Neill, however I do feel
It's typical clichéd lazy "Norn Iron" analysis to say "one's as bad as the other".
DUP are a party with views that are out of synch with most other parties in the "western world". Tbf to SF they tried hard to work in coalition with a party to which they are diametrically opposed. Then Martin Mcguinness , reCognised by many as a statesman , just had enough, and there was widespread respect and understanding for his decision to pull down the stormont executive. Then  Ironically , everybody else, none of whom ( including even the tories) could work with DUP , pilloried SF for not working with them. SF in government opposed the DUP stance on Covid ( which was shamefully politically driven) which has been proven disastrous, and now SF are criticised for opposing this view with the cliched cry "ones as bad as the other". Maybe it's because SF have a history which , understandably many find hard to stomach, but let's face it , few parties in Ireland are without controversy. SF have a lot of work to do to convince unionists and many nationalists , but at least most of their views are mainstream .
DUP approach has been proven wrong, SF rightly challenged this , and yet still we have the "ones as bad as the other " brigade letting the DUP dinosaurs off the hook.  The SDLP are currently leading this drive. Disappointing  for a party with a proud history who famously under John Hume, put party politics to one side for the greater good , linking in with Gerry Adam's to lead in ending the conflict here.
It's time for all parties North and South of the border to stand up to the DUP and isolate them. Many of their supporters only vote for them because they are the largest party, feeling they are best placed to secure the union. The other parties' blind antagonism towards SF totally buys in to the DUP narrative and keeps these DUP dinosaurs in power. Surely it behoves the other parties in Stormont and in Dáil Éirinn to unite against the DUP , and demand that we follow scientific advice. Those that rightly criticise SF for their health complacency on the day of Bobby Storey's funeral in June,( when numbers were low and remained so for nearly 3 months), would have more credibility if they challenged the daily arrogance of the DUP in ignoring scientific advice, and creating this dangerous surge in hospital admissions . This contrasts sharply with the South  where despite major political differences, all parties never seem to veer away from promoting the scientific advice. Are non-DUP parties prepared to put their differences aside to get rid of the influence of the DUP? Potentially we are nearly beyond this pandemic, through the vaccines, and we need to hammer home the scientific message over the next  2 months to minimise deaths. A mixed message now could be disastrous
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 18, 2020, 09:22:00 PM
Schools open as normal in January.

Expect the lockdown to be extended now into February.

That will be the publics fault, again. What a ridiculous decision. If things are that bad in the NHS and things are that vital, why is ANYTHING that contributes, let alone a major driver allowed to proceed.

Waste of time. Will only push people away further.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 18, 2020, 09:47:40 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 18, 2020, 09:22:00 PM
Schools open as normal in January.

If particular districts have problems then they don't have to open all of them.

QuoteExpect the lockdown to be extended now into February.

If the rates fall low they can shorten it.


QuoteThat will be the publics fault, again. What a ridiculous decision. If things are that bad in the NHS and things are that vital, why is ANYTHING that contributes, let alone a major driver allowed to proceed.

Well you could blame the virus. But the public can stop it, if they chose to.

As for schools, actual scientists reckon kids get the virus outside school mostly
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6950e3.htm?s_cid=mm6950e3_w
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 18, 2020, 09:51:50 PM
Apparently the methody outbreak was from an 18th birthday party.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 18, 2020, 09:57:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 18, 2020, 09:47:40 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 18, 2020, 09:22:00 PM
Schools open as normal in January.
Quote

If particular districts have problems then they don't have to open all of them.

QuoteExpect the lockdown to be extended now into February.

If the rates fall low they can shorten it.


QuoteThat will be the publics fault, again. What a ridiculous decision. If things are that bad in the NHS and things are that vital, why is ANYTHING that contributes, let alone a major driver allowed to proceed.

Well you could blame the virus. But the public can stop it, if they chose to.

As for schools, actual scientists reckon kids get the virus outside school mostly
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6950e3.htm?s_cid=mm6950e3_w

Does it matter where they get it?

By that stage they have it, then they mix, with possibly 20 upwards.

They go home to 20 families.

I don't know why you continue to defend schools when the summer proved the point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 18, 2020, 10:00:39 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 18, 2020, 09:58:13 PM
Covid loves the social events. It's always Weddings, Christenings, Birthdays & House parties.

and funerals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 18, 2020, 10:17:46 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 18, 2020, 10:01:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 18, 2020, 10:00:39 PM
Quote from: hardstation on December 18, 2020, 09:58:13 PM
Covid loves the social events. It's always Weddings, Christenings, Birthdays & House parties.

and funerals.
Yes, I missed that one.

Young people are cheek by jowl all day Monday to Friday for months and there's never a problem. Yet, they go to one 18th birthday and the whole thing goes to shite.

That's fairly odd, no?

Plenty of diseases spread at such parties that do not spread in the classroom.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on December 18, 2020, 10:32:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 18, 2020, 01:05:55 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 18, 2020, 12:54:37 PM
That's basically the height of it marty34, we can blame the governments all we want, and very few countries have coped well, but it's hard when people just ignore the guidance and restrictions. And that's what has happened in the 6 counties

You could argue its the governments fault in all the countries that haven't done well. A sh*t show everywhere Covid-19 wasn't taken seriously. And that attitude is what flows down to the public.

But people have to take person responsibility also - this, the attitude of Stormont's a mess, therefore I can do what I like is a cop out.

People, who are adults, must front up and own it.  This carry- on of blaming everybody else doesn't wash with me.   

A very basic example, the amount of people I see in shops etc. without a mask is unreal - again the sense of entitlement is unreal. Why do I have to wear a mask, I couldn't care less type of attitude.

We can blame everybody else but the elephant in the room.

As I stated before, SF made a bad decision about the funeral earlier in the year and rightly got called out for it.  It was wrong and turned into a PR disaster for them. The main problem for me is the DUP,  mainly, in terms of Stormont.  I don't buy in to the usual "two sides as bad as each other".

There are 5 parties in there, it's been 4 V 1 in terms of supporting the health and medical people and following their advice but it's clearly the DUP who are not onside with it, for whatever reason.  Again, the UUP were 'siding' with London's plan earlier on but, as the year have went on, they've clearly wanting to follow the advice of the health professionals.  Why? For me, I believe that as this year has developed, in regards to planning, England, Scotland, Wales and the 6 counties have went 'their own way' as it's clearly not a one size fits all solution.

Regardless, let's nail this myth that Stormont is the problem in this case.  It has its problems but when it 4 V 1 up there, the problem lies with one party.

As stated, people have to take personal responsibility.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on December 18, 2020, 10:42:00 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on December 18, 2020, 06:37:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 18, 2020, 02:07:40 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 18, 2020, 12:54:37 PM
That's basically the height of it marty34, we can blame the governments all we want, and very few countries have coped well, but it's hard when people just ignore the guidance and restrictions. And that's what has happened in the 6 counties

Few countries have coped so badly would be a better way of putting it. The DUP and SF can tell their wee internet armies that it's all the publics fault if it makes them feel better about their handling of it but the reality is

Sammy Wilson told people not to wear a mask
Edwin Poots said it was Catholics who were spreading it
SF orgnaised a huge funeral and political rally in the middle of it
DUP vetoed restrictions put forward by Dept of health
Michelle O'Neill undermined the message at every chance, schools initially back in March and then blamed the DUP at every bother turnaround
The NHS has undergone huge cuts in NI administered by SF and the DUP and then as bad as that was they took 3 years off.

So excuse me when people say the public aren't following the rules it's a bit f**king rich. SF and the DUP aren't fit to run a bath and would do everyone a massive favour if they resigned their posts and let people who know what they're doing take over. The blame lies squarely at Stormont's door.

I'm not here to defend SF and Michelle O'Neill, however I do feel
It's typical clichéd lazy "Norn Iron" analysis to say "one's as bad as the other".
DUP are a party with views that are out of synch with most other parties in the "western world". Tbf to SF they tried hard to work in coalition with a party to which they are diametrically opposed. Then Martin Mcguinness , reCognised by many as a statesman , just had enough, and there was widespread respect and understanding for his decision to pull down the stormont executive. Then  Ironically , everybody else, none of whom ( including even the tories) could work with DUP , pilloried SF for not working with them. SF in government opposed the DUP stance on Covid ( which was shamefully politically driven) which has been proven disastrous, and now SF are criticised for opposing this view with the cliched cry "ones as bad as the other". Maybe it's because SF have a history which , understandably many find hard to stomach, but let's face it , few parties in Ireland are without controversy. SF have a lot of work to do to convince unionists and many nationalists , but at least most of their views are mainstream .
DUP approach has been proven wrong, SF rightly challenged this , and yet still we have the "ones as bad as the other " brigade letting the DUP dinosaurs off the hook.  The SDLP are currently leading this drive. Disappointing  for a party with a proud history who famously under John Hume, put party politics to one side for the greater good , linking in with Gerry Adam's to lead in ending the conflict here.
It's time for all parties North and South of the border to stand up to the DUP and isolate them. Many of their supporters only vote for them because they are the largest party, feeling they are best placed to secure the union. The other parties' blind antagonism towards SF totally buys in to the DUP narrative and keeps these DUP dinosaurs in power. Surely it behoves the other parties in Stormont and in Dáil Éirinn to unite against the DUP , and demand that we follow scientific advice. Those that rightly criticise SF for their health complacency on the day of Bobby Storey's funeral in June,( when numbers were low and remained so for nearly 3 months), would have more credibility if they challenged the daily arrogance of the DUP in ignoring scientific advice, and creating this dangerous surge in hospital admissions . This contrasts sharply with the South  where despite major political differences, all parties never seem to veer away from promoting the scientific advice. Are non-DUP parties prepared to put their differences aside to get rid of the influence of the DUP? Potentially we are nearly beyond this pandemic, through the vaccines, and we need to hammer home the scientific message over the next  2 months to minimise deaths. A mixed message now could be disastrous

+1
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on December 18, 2020, 10:45:03 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 18, 2020, 09:51:50 PM
Apparently the methody outbreak was from an 18th birthday party.

As I keep saying, personal responsibility but people on here keep blaming everything and everybody but the elephant in the room.

This party was as necessary as people queuing outside Primark etc.

Own it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on December 18, 2020, 11:07:28 PM
The UK is seemingly a mess (we read their papers, so it's easier to keep an eye on), the Republic is  on the rise, Germany in full lockdown, and Italy and Spain banning people from going anywhere.

Maybe sometime soon it will dawn on the anti-Stormont, anti-DUP, anti-Shinner brigade that the whole of Europe is a giant mess of hapless governments running scared, implementing measures that don't work, burying things they don't want people to know, and worst of all, copying each others' stupid "strategies" before seeing if they work.

That sanctimonious p***k Armagniac describing Sweden as "Covid for slow learners" kind of sums it up. Sweden is a mess. But so is everywhere. Stop point scoring and deeming elsewhere in Europe as a success.

——

As long as schools are open, and airports are open, then this isn't going away. f**k all your other government policies. If schools are open every other policy is just a giant game of pass the f**king parcel.

With this rudderless, pointless facade running riot, all I can say is thank  f**k most of us bat off Covid without blinking.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 18, 2020, 11:19:41 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 18, 2020, 11:07:28 PM
That sanctimonious p***k Armagniac describing Sweden as "Covid for slow learners" kind of sums it up. Sweden is a mess. But so is everywhere. Stop point scoring and deeming elsewhere in Europe as a success.

Happy Christmas to you too.
There were individuals in Sweden trying to score political points about how great they are. Why not swear at them?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 18, 2020, 11:21:48 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 18, 2020, 10:32:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 18, 2020, 01:05:55 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 18, 2020, 12:54:37 PM
That's basically the height of it marty34, we can blame the governments all we want, and very few countries have coped well, but it's hard when people just ignore the guidance and restrictions. And that's what has happened in the 6 counties

You could argue its the governments fault in all the countries that haven't done well. A sh*t show everywhere Covid-19 wasn't taken seriously. And that attitude is what flows down to the public.

But people have to take person responsibility also - this, the attitude of Stormont's a mess, therefore I can do what I like is a cop out.

People, who are adults, must front up and own it.  This carry- on of blaming everybody else doesn't wash with me.   

A very basic example, the amount of people I see in shops etc. without a mask is unreal - again the sense of entitlement is unreal. Why do I have to wear a mask, I couldn't care less type of attitude.

We can blame everybody else but the elephant in the room.

As I stated before, SF made a bad decision about the funeral earlier in the year and rightly got called out for it.  It was wrong and turned into a PR disaster for them. The main problem for me is the DUP,  mainly, in terms of Stormont.  I don't buy in to the usual "two sides as bad as each other".

There are 5 parties in there, it's been 4 V 1 in terms of supporting the health and medical people and following their advice but it's clearly the DUP who are not onside with it, for whatever reason.  Again, the UUP were 'siding' with London's plan earlier on but, as the year have went on, they've clearly wanting to follow the advice of the health professionals.  Why? For me, I believe that as this year has developed, in regards to planning, England, Scotland, Wales and the 6 counties have went 'their own way' as it's clearly not a one size fits all solution.

Regardless, let's nail this myth that Stormont is the problem in this case.  It has its problems but when it 4 V 1 up there, the problem lies with one party.

As stated, people have to take personal responsibility.

1,000,000% correct.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 18, 2020, 11:23:04 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 18, 2020, 11:07:28 PM
The UK is seemingly a mess (we read their papers, so it's easier to keep an eye on), the Republic is  on the rise, Germany in full lockdown, and Italy and Spain banning people from going anywhere.

Maybe sometime soon it will dawn on the anti-Stormont, anti-DUP, anti-Shinner brigade that the whole of Europe is a giant mess of hapless governments running scared, implementing measures that don't work, burying things they don't want people to know, and worst of all, copying each others' stupid "strategies" before seeing if they work.

That sanctimonious p***k Armagniac describing Sweden as "Covid for slow learners" kind of sums it up. Sweden is a mess. But so is everywhere. Stop point scoring and deeming elsewhere in Europe as a success.

——

As long as schools are open, and airports are open, then this isn't going away. f**k all your other government policies. If schools are open every other policy is just a giant game of pass the f**king parcel.

With this rudderless, pointless facade running riot, all I can say is thank  f**k most of us bat off Covid without blinking.

That's about the height of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on December 18, 2020, 11:32:26 PM
Did the south not get numbers down to a pretty low number at the start of December while schools were still open?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on December 18, 2020, 11:53:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 18, 2020, 11:19:41 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 18, 2020, 11:07:28 PM
That sanctimonious p***k Armagniac describing Sweden as "Covid for slow learners" kind of sums it up. Sweden is a mess. But so is everywhere. Stop point scoring and deeming elsewhere in Europe as a success.

Happy Christmas to you too.
There were individuals in Sweden trying to score political points about how great they are. Why not swear at them?
According to the stats, Sweden has  low to middling numbers in hospital and  are among the bottom rung  in the death ratio in this 2nd wave.
It all goes to show that the state fcked up in the beginning with protecting the elderly. Like there was in ireland, a disconnect between the HSE and the threat to nursing homes.
It's not about rules  when people are willing to follow advice  and take responsibility. When people are prone to act the bollix like in Ireland then there is a need for sterner action.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on December 18, 2020, 11:57:15 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 18, 2020, 11:07:28 PM
The UK is seemingly a mess (we read their papers, so it's easier to keep an eye on), the Republic is  on the rise, Germany in full lockdown, and Italy and Spain banning people from going anywhere.

Maybe sometime soon it will dawn on the anti-Stormont, anti-DUP, anti-Shinner brigade that the whole of Europe is a giant mess of hapless governments running scared, implementing measures that don't work, burying things they don't want people to know, and worst of all, copying each others' stupid "strategies" before seeing if they work.

That sanctimonious p***k Armagniac describing Sweden as "Covid for slow learners" kind of sums it up. Sweden is a mess. But so is everywhere. Stop point scoring and deeming elsewhere in Europe as a success.

——

As long as schools are open, and airports are open, then this isn't going away. f**k all your other government policies. If schools are open every other policy is just a giant game of pass the f**king parcel.

With this rudderless, pointless facade running riot, all I can say is thank  f**k most of us bat off Covid without blinking.

Not everything about this pandemic is clear-cut, and opinions can change as evidence develops . I accept it's not easy for governments, what I don't accept is that there is a four fold difference in rates in the two jurisdictions on the same island. DUP forced a decision to ignore scientific advice ,and reject an all island approach,  for political reasons . As a result we have 19 ambulances queued outside one of our hospitals . If that makes me anti-DUP then I'll take that as a compliment. We still are living n a jurisdiction dominated by dinosaurs that put political prejudice before scientific evidence . Unbelievable
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 19, 2020, 12:26:36 AM
Spot on Sam.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 19, 2020, 12:32:25 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on December 18, 2020, 11:32:26 PM
Did the south not get numbers down to a pretty low number at the start of December while schools were still open?

Yes, of course. But a lot of people here are partitionist and do not see anything "down there" as useful example.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on December 19, 2020, 12:42:38 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 19, 2020, 12:32:25 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on December 18, 2020, 11:32:26 PM
Did the south not get numbers down to a pretty low number at the start of December while schools were still open?

Yes, of course. But a lot of people here are partitionist and do not see anything "down there" as useful example.

And not so long ago Germany was fully open again before any other Western European country. And the same people who at that time talked up how the stoic, selfless Teutonic personality traits were central to this "success" (especially when compared to self-centred, sub-IQ, jingoistic clowns of England), are now doing the same with the Republic's recent improvement vs the north.

Will they remember these things in 5-6 weeks when the numbers change, or reverse? No. No they f**king won't. Because anyone who is in any way inclined to celebrate an isolated set of numbers in the middle of a pandemic is, to put it as plainly as I can, a complete f**king halfwit.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 19, 2020, 12:49:09 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on December 18, 2020, 11:57:15 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 18, 2020, 11:07:28 PM
The UK is seemingly a mess (we read their papers, so it's easier to keep an eye on), the Republic is  on the rise, Germany in full lockdown, and Italy and Spain banning people from going anywhere.

Maybe sometime soon it will dawn on the anti-Stormont, anti-DUP, anti-Shinner brigade that the whole of Europe is a giant mess of hapless governments running scared, implementing measures that don't work, burying things they don't want people to know, and worst of all, copying each others' stupid "strategies" before seeing if they work.

That sanctimonious p***k Armagniac describing Sweden as "Covid for slow learners" kind of sums it up. Sweden is a mess. But so is everywhere. Stop point scoring and deeming elsewhere in Europe as a success.

——

As long as schools are open, and airports are open, then this isn't going away. f**k all your other government policies. If schools are open every other policy is just a giant game of pass the f**king parcel.

With this rudderless, pointless facade running riot, all I can say is thank  f**k most of us bat off Covid without blinking.

Not everything about this pandemic is clear-cut, and opinions can change as evidence develops . I accept it's not easy for governments, what I don't accept is that there is a four fold difference in rates in the two jurisdictions on the same island. DUP forced a decision to ignore scientific advice ,and reject an all island approach,  for political reasons . As a result we have 19 ambulances queued outside one of our hospitals . If that makes me anti-DUP then I'll take that as a compliment. We still are living n a jurisdiction dominated by dinosaurs that put political prejudice before scientific evidence . Unbelievable
Nationalism is the problem

British nationalism has evolved into a crazy world of delusion where facts don't matter and and matters of science are turned into right-wing culture war hobby horses, driven by a rabid right-wing media who preach self consciously bad faith canards like "individual liberty" and "free speech" and vacuous idiocy like "we trust people to make the best decisions for themselves"

In a scenario where a collective solution is required for a collective problem, this is poison

The DUP are a nationalist party

For nationalist parties, loyalty to an imagined idea of an indivisible nation forged in blood and soil is usually paramount

Yet, through the influence of right-wing media and the cancer of libertarian ideology, this ultra-British nationalism, like white American "nationalism", has mutated into a bastard form where social solidarity is despised

It is a nationalism which is loyal only to atomisation, and to oligarch money

It is driven by a tribal culture war in which one tribe rejects any sort of social solidarity even within that tribe - the tribe of atoms

In its own way, it is an anti-nationalist nationalism

It is a plutocratic nationalism, a form of serfdom, and in the DUP's case it is voluntary serfdom

The DUP's idea of nation is not ordinary British people, it is the ultra-Brexit movement as driven by the corrupt far right of the Tory party, Russian oligarchs, Murdoch media and far right American think tanks

It is a pound shop knock off idea of Empire, of the feeling of being part of Empire, a demonstration of unrequited loyalty by the Empire's equivalent of trailer trash which goes unheard and unseen by the billionaires who it is meant as a homage to

The DUP are willing to harm their own atomised people as long as they can harm themmuns too

But nobody in London or elsewhere, nobody who this "gesture" is aimed at, will notice

Because to those people, the DUP are nothing more than shit on their expensive shoes











Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 19, 2020, 01:13:20 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 19, 2020, 12:42:38 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 19, 2020, 12:32:25 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on December 18, 2020, 11:32:26 PM
Did the south not get numbers down to a pretty low number at the start of December while schools were still open?

Yes, of course. But a lot of people here are partitionist and do not see anything "down there" as useful example.

And not so long ago Germany was fully open again before any other Western European country. And the same people who at that time talked up how the stoic, selfless Teutonic personality traits were central to this "success" (especially when compared to self-centred, sub-IQ, jingoistic clowns of England), are now doing the same with the Republic's recent improvement vs the north.

Will they remember these things in 5-6 weeks when the numbers change, or reverse? No. No they f**king won't. Because anyone who is in any way inclined to celebrate an isolated set of numbers in the middle of a pandemic is, to put it as plainly as I can, a complete f**king halfwit.

The ROI has no monopoly on wisdom in this regard, nor different personality traits. However, I do not see why you have to be characterised as a complete f**king halfwit if you recognise that they looked at the calendar and tuned things to some extent to allow relaxed restrictions at Christmas and that this was good thing. And it is because I do not believe that people have notably different personality traits that I think that the decline of numbers there with schools open shows that a decline in the 6 counties is possible with the same policies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on December 19, 2020, 07:02:18 AM
And if the south closed the schools sure the virus might have been away altogether now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on December 19, 2020, 09:06:13 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 19, 2020, 12:42:38 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 19, 2020, 12:32:25 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on December 18, 2020, 11:32:26 PM
Did the south not get numbers down to a pretty low number at the start of December while schools were still open?

Yes, of course. But a lot of people here are partitionist and do not see anything "down there" as useful example.

And not so long ago Germany was fully open again before any other Western European country. And the same people who at that time talked up how the stoic, selfless Teutonic personality traits were central to this "success" (especially when compared to self-centred, sub-IQ, jingoistic clowns of England), are now doing the same with the Republic's recent improvement vs the north.

Will they remember these things in 5-6 weeks when the numbers change, or reverse? No. No they f**king won't. Because anyone who is in any way inclined to celebrate an isolated set of numbers in the middle of a pandemic is, to put it as plainly as I can, a complete f**king halfwit.



I don't really understand a lot of that so I will put it simply.  ROI went into lockdown to get numbers down to a workable level.  This worked with schools open.  It's as simple as that, no ifs buts maybes or f**kwits about it.

Therefore IMO it's more down  to people's behaviour rather than schools being open or not. Whether that is down to a lack of political leadership or people just not caring anymore or a mixture of both is up for debate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 19, 2020, 09:08:24 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 19, 2020, 12:32:25 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on December 18, 2020, 11:32:26 PM
Did the south not get numbers down to a pretty low number at the start of December while schools were still open?

Yes, of course. But a lot of people here are partitionist and do not see anything "down there" as useful example.

Armaghniac the person who has been most partitionist in this thread is you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on December 19, 2020, 09:48:41 AM
Quote from: marty34 on December 18, 2020, 10:32:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 18, 2020, 01:05:55 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 18, 2020, 12:54:37 PM
That's basically the height of it marty34, we can blame the governments all we want, and very few countries have coped well, but it's hard when people just ignore the guidance and restrictions. And that's what has happened in the 6 counties

You could argue its the governments fault in all the countries that haven't done well. A sh*t show everywhere Covid-19 wasn't taken seriously. And that attitude is what flows down to the public.

But people have to take person responsibility also - this, the attitude of Stormont's a mess, therefore I can do what I like is a cop out.

People, who are adults, must front up and own it.  This carry- on of blaming everybody else doesn't wash with me.   

A very basic example, the amount of people I see in shops etc. without a mask is unreal - again the sense of entitlement is unreal. Why do I have to wear a mask, I couldn't care less type of attitude.

We can blame everybody else but the elephant in the room.

As I stated before, SF made a bad decision about the funeral earlier in the year and rightly got called out for it.  It was wrong and turned into a PR disaster for them. The main problem for me is the DUP,  mainly, in terms of Stormont.  I don't buy in to the usual "two sides as bad as each other".

There are 5 parties in there, it's been 4 V 1 in terms of supporting the health and medical people and following their advice but it's clearly the DUP who are not onside with it, for whatever reason.  Again, the UUP were 'siding' with London's plan earlier on but, as the year have went on, they've clearly wanting to follow the advice of the health professionals.  Why? For me, I believe that as this year has developed, in regards to planning, England, Scotland, Wales and the 6 counties have went 'their own way' as it's clearly not a one size fits all solution.

Regardless, let's nail this myth that Stormont is the problem in this case.  It has its problems but when it 4 V 1 up there, the problem lies with one party.

As stated, people have to take personal responsibility.

Spot on that.
There are still loads who don't wear masks and don't use the sanitiser in shops.
Or who do wear a mask but don't cover their nose.
Too many people not following guidelines. Visiting too many other households etc.
Dup absolutely have been a major problem holding everyone to ransom with their veto for whatever agenda. I think they just like welding power
Sending schools back with everything else locked down is a disgrace.
So it's ok for kids to mix 30 at a time in school, but not in their own back yard or a park? Covid knows to leave the kids at school alone? Nonsense and it stinks of dup doing their own thing again. 
I've had to get tested this week, thankfully negative. But at the testing site, the tester said the majority of people coming in to be tested are working in schools.
Anecdotal maybe, but doesn't surprise me.
My wife is a teacher in a primary school with 200 kids. So far 4 teachers and numerous other staff have had positive tests. They have caught out quite a few families sending kids to school when other siblings are positive. That's what we're up against.
Schools should be the first thing shut imo. See how we go with everything else opened after that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on December 19, 2020, 09:58:01 AM
How do you expect everything to open up if schools are shut ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on December 19, 2020, 10:15:07 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on December 19, 2020, 09:48:41 AM
Quote from: marty34 on December 18, 2020, 10:32:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 18, 2020, 01:05:55 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 18, 2020, 12:54:37 PM
That's basically the height of it marty34, we can blame the governments all we want, and very few countries have coped well, but it's hard when people just ignore the guidance and restrictions. And that's what has happened in the 6 counties

You could argue its the governments fault in all the countries that haven't done well. A sh*t show everywhere Covid-19 wasn't taken seriously. And that attitude is what flows down to the public.

But people have to take person responsibility also - this, the attitude of Stormont's a mess, therefore I can do what I like is a cop out.

People, who are adults, must front up and own it.  This carry- on of blaming everybody else doesn't wash with me.   

A very basic example, the amount of people I see in shops etc. without a mask is unreal - again the sense of entitlement is unreal. Why do I have to wear a mask, I couldn't care less type of attitude.

We can blame everybody else but the elephant in the room.

As I stated before, SF made a bad decision about the funeral earlier in the year and rightly got called out for it.  It was wrong and turned into a PR disaster for them. The main problem for me is the DUP,  mainly, in terms of Stormont.  I don't buy in to the usual "two sides as bad as each other".

There are 5 parties in there, it's been 4 V 1 in terms of supporting the health and medical people and following their advice but it's clearly the DUP who are not onside with it, for whatever reason.  Again, the UUP were 'siding' with London's plan earlier on but, as the year have went on, they've clearly wanting to follow the advice of the health professionals.  Why? For me, I believe that as this year has developed, in regards to planning, England, Scotland, Wales and the 6 counties have went 'their own way' as it's clearly not a one size fits all solution.

Regardless, let's nail this myth that Stormont is the problem in this case.  It has its problems but when it 4 V 1 up there, the problem lies with one party.

As stated, people have to take personal responsibility.

Spot on that.
There are still loads who don't wear masks and don't use the sanitiser in shops.
Or who do wear a mask but don't cover their nose.
Too many people not following guidelines. Visiting too many other households etc.
Dup absolutely have been a major problem holding everyone to ransom with their veto for whatever agenda. I think they just like welding power
Sending schools back with everything else locked down is a disgrace.
So it's ok for kids to mix 30 at a time in school, but not in their own back yard or a park? Covid knows to leave the kids at school alone? Nonsense and it stinks of dup doing their own thing again. 
I've had to get tested this week, thankfully negative. But at the testing site, the tester said the majority of people coming in to be tested are working in schools.
Anecdotal maybe, but doesn't surprise me.
My wife is a teacher in a primary school with 200 kids. So far 4 teachers and numerous other staff have had positive tests. They have caught out quite a few families sending kids to school when other siblings are positive. That's what we're up against.
Schools should be the first thing shut imo. See how we go with everything else opened after that.

Probably more to do with their actions outside of school
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 19, 2020, 10:22:29 AM
The thing is it *could* be but if the thing is not in control in your society schools are the perfect place to spread it surely?

Universities seemed to be a major thing in the north too. (In England and Scotland too). I am not sure how this wasn't a thing in the south. What was done differently?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 19, 2020, 11:04:16 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 19, 2020, 10:15:07 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on December 19, 2020, 09:48:41 AM
Quote from: marty34 on December 18, 2020, 10:32:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 18, 2020, 01:05:55 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 18, 2020, 12:54:37 PM
That's basically the height of it marty34, we can blame the governments all we want, and very few countries have coped well, but it's hard when people just ignore the guidance and restrictions. And that's what has happened in the 6 counties

You could argue its the governments fault in all the countries that haven't done well. A sh*t show everywhere Covid-19 wasn't taken seriously. And that attitude is what flows down to the public.

But people have to take person responsibility also - this, the attitude of Stormont's a mess, therefore I can do what I like is a cop out.

People, who are adults, must front up and own it.  This carry- on of blaming everybody else doesn't wash with me.   

A very basic example, the amount of people I see in shops etc. without a mask is unreal - again the sense of entitlement is unreal. Why do I have to wear a mask, I couldn't care less type of attitude.

We can blame everybody else but the elephant in the room.

As I stated before, SF made a bad decision about the funeral earlier in the year and rightly got called out for it.  It was wrong and turned into a PR disaster for them. The main problem for me is the DUP,  mainly, in terms of Stormont.  I don't buy in to the usual "two sides as bad as each other".

There are 5 parties in there, it's been 4 V 1 in terms of supporting the health and medical people and following their advice but it's clearly the DUP who are not onside with it, for whatever reason.  Again, the UUP were 'siding' with London's plan earlier on but, as the year have went on, they've clearly wanting to follow the advice of the health professionals.  Why? For me, I believe that as this year has developed, in regards to planning, England, Scotland, Wales and the 6 counties have went 'their own way' as it's clearly not a one size fits all solution.

Regardless, let's nail this myth that Stormont is the problem in this case.  It has its problems but when it 4 V 1 up there, the problem lies with one party.

As stated, people have to take personal responsibility.

Spot on that.
There are still loads who don't wear masks and don't use the sanitiser in shops.
Or who do wear a mask but don't cover their nose.
Too many people not following guidelines. Visiting too many other households etc.
Dup absolutely have been a major problem holding everyone to ransom with their veto for whatever agenda. I think they just like welding power
Sending schools back with everything else locked down is a disgrace.
So it's ok for kids to mix 30 at a time in school, but not in their own back yard or a park? Covid knows to leave the kids at school alone? Nonsense and it stinks of dup doing their own thing again. 
I've had to get tested this week, thankfully negative. But at the testing site, the tester said the majority of people coming in to be tested are working in schools.
Anecdotal maybe, but doesn't surprise me.
My wife is a teacher in a primary school with 200 kids. So far 4 teachers and numerous other staff have had positive tests. They have caught out quite a few families sending kids to school when other siblings are positive. That's what we're up against.
Schools should be the first thing shut imo. See how we go with everything else opened after that.

Probably more to do with their actions outside of school

Christ the night. What a comment.

Unbelieveable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 19, 2020, 12:40:07 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 19, 2020, 09:08:24 AM
Armaghniac the person who has been most partitionist in this thread is you.

Not true. All I have ever said is that if you do the same thing then you'll get the same results.

Quote from: imtommygunn on December 19, 2020, 10:22:29 AM
The thing is it *could* be but if the thing is not in control in your society schools are the perfect place to spread it surely?

Universities seemed to be a major thing in the north too. (In England and Scotland too). I am not sure how this wasn't a thing in the south. What was done differently?

There wasn't much talk of universities in the 26 counties, not sure what was different, although they all had electronic classes only except for labs.
In Limerick, which had a few cases, they've recently tested the students before sending them home for the holidays. They may have done this in Cork, but they did not do it in Dublin.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 19, 2020, 12:52:14 PM
Were halls of residence opened? I think personally it was a disgrace that queens halls were. I also am not convinced on timeliness of telling people they were to take classes electronically. That has factored in.

The problem is those kind of things now become very relevant. Transmitting that to the population has made it "rattle" round a lot more people than needbe and lack of appropriate lockdown just means it keeps going and going and going.  You shouldn't need the "big" lockdowns but when balls ups like that are made that is what happens. (If it gets into the population I also imagine the likes of schools could spread it a lot. Not sure why that is a controversial opinion tbh. We've made a balls of it and all possibilities should be looked at).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2020, 01:52:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 19, 2020, 12:52:14 PM
Were halls of residence opened? I think personally it was a disgrace that queens halls were. I also am not convinced on timeliness of telling people they were to take classes electronically. That has factored in.

The problem is those kind of things now become very relevant. Transmitting that to the population has made it "rattle" round a lot more people than needbe and lack of appropriate lockdown just means it keeps going and going and going.  You shouldn't need the "big" lockdowns but when balls ups like that are made that is what happens. (If it gets into the population I also imagine the likes of schools could spread it a lot. Not sure why that is a controversial opinion tbh. We've made a balls of it and all possibilities should be looked at).

Halls are opened up after new year in Queens!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on December 19, 2020, 02:12:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2020, 01:52:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 19, 2020, 12:52:14 PM
Were halls of residence opened? I think personally it was a disgrace that queens halls were. I also am not convinced on timeliness of telling people they were to take classes electronically. That has factored in.

The problem is those kind of things now become very relevant. Transmitting that to the population has made it "rattle" round a lot more people than needbe and lack of appropriate lockdown just means it keeps going and going and going.  You shouldn't need the "big" lockdowns but when balls ups like that are made that is what happens. (If it gets into the population I also imagine the likes of schools could spread it a lot. Not sure why that is a controversial opinion tbh. We've made a balls of it and all possibilities should be looked at).

Halls are opened up after new year in Queens!

All about the cash from overseas' students, as well as the locals.

Cash is king.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 19, 2020, 02:45:05 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 19, 2020, 02:12:41 PM
All about the cash from overseas' students, as well as the locals.

Cash is king.

Without the overseas students there wouldn't be enough to give the same service to the locals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on December 19, 2020, 05:18:49 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 19, 2020, 10:15:07 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on December 19, 2020, 09:48:41 AM
Quote from: marty34 on December 18, 2020, 10:32:03 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 18, 2020, 01:05:55 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 18, 2020, 12:54:37 PM
That's basically the height of it marty34, we can blame the governments all we want, and very few countries have coped well, but it's hard when people just ignore the guidance and restrictions. And that's what has happened in the 6 counties

You could argue its the governments fault in all the countries that haven't done well. A sh*t show everywhere Covid-19 wasn't taken seriously. And that attitude is what flows down to the public.

But people have to take person responsibility also - this, the attitude of Stormont's a mess, therefore I can do what I like is a cop out.

People, who are adults, must front up and own it.  This carry- on of blaming everybody else doesn't wash with me.   

A very basic example, the amount of people I see in shops etc. without a mask is unreal - again the sense of entitlement is unreal. Why do I have to wear a mask, I couldn't care less type of attitude.

We can blame everybody else but the elephant in the room.

As I stated before, SF made a bad decision about the funeral earlier in the year and rightly got called out for it.  It was wrong and turned into a PR disaster for them. The main problem for me is the DUP,  mainly, in terms of Stormont.  I don't buy in to the usual "two sides as bad as each other".

There are 5 parties in there, it's been 4 V 1 in terms of supporting the health and medical people and following their advice but it's clearly the DUP who are not onside with it, for whatever reason.  Again, the UUP were 'siding' with London's plan earlier on but, as the year have went on, they've clearly wanting to follow the advice of the health professionals.  Why? For me, I believe that as this year has developed, in regards to planning, England, Scotland, Wales and the 6 counties have went 'their own way' as it's clearly not a one size fits all solution.

Regardless, let's nail this myth that Stormont is the problem in this case.  It has its problems but when it 4 V 1 up there, the problem lies with one party.

As stated, people have to take personal responsibility.

Spot on that.
There are still loads who don't wear masks and don't use the sanitiser in shops.
Or who do wear a mask but don't cover their nose.
Too many people not following guidelines. Visiting too many other households etc.
Dup absolutely have been a major problem holding everyone to ransom with their veto for whatever agenda. I think they just like welding power
Sending schools back with everything else locked down is a disgrace.
So it's ok for kids to mix 30 at a time in school, but not in their own back yard or a park? Covid knows to leave the kids at school alone? Nonsense and it stinks of dup doing their own thing again. 
I've had to get tested this week, thankfully negative. But at the testing site, the tester said the majority of people coming in to be tested are working in schools.
Anecdotal maybe, but doesn't surprise me.
My wife is a teacher in a primary school with 200 kids. So far 4 teachers and numerous other staff have had positive tests. They have caught out quite a few families sending kids to school when other siblings are positive. That's what we're up against.
Schools should be the first thing shut imo. See how we go with everything else opened after that.

Probably more to do with their actions outside of school

How do you work that out?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on December 19, 2020, 10:24:09 PM
The new variant in London 75% stronger then what was already there. They would need a good vaccine for it.

Hopefully it stays out of this island but with people travelling back for Christmas that's debatable
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2020, 10:31:24 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 19, 2020, 10:24:09 PM
The new variant in London 75% stronger then what was already there. They would need a good vaccine for it.

Hopefully it stays out of this island but with people travelling back for Christmas that's debatable

Did they not say it was more contiguous?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 19, 2020, 11:16:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2020, 10:31:24 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 19, 2020, 10:24:09 PM
The new variant in London 75% stronger then what was already there. They would need a good vaccine for it.

Hopefully it stays out of this island but with people travelling back for Christmas that's debatable

Did they not say it was more contiguous?

Yeah they did
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2020, 11:26:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 19, 2020, 11:16:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2020, 10:31:24 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 19, 2020, 10:24:09 PM
The new variant in London 75% stronger then what was already there. They would need a good vaccine for it.

Hopefully it stays out of this island but with people travelling back for Christmas that's debatable

Did they not say it was more contiguous?

Yeah they did

Did they say it was 75% stronger, as in more lethal?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 19, 2020, 11:38:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2020, 11:26:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 19, 2020, 11:16:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2020, 10:31:24 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 19, 2020, 10:24:09 PM
The new variant in London 75% stronger then what was already there. They would need a good vaccine for it.

Hopefully it stays out of this island but with people travelling back for Christmas that's debatable

Did they not say it was more contiguous?

Yeah they did

Did they say it was 75% stronger, as in more lethal?

More contagious i think but not sure on strength or lethality
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on December 19, 2020, 11:48:48 PM
It's statistical abuse, pure and simple.

If my chance of doing something is under 1%, then a 75% increase in the chance of me doing that same something will usually still be under 1%.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2020, 12:20:33 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 19, 2020, 11:48:48 PM
It's statistical abuse, pure and simple.

If my chance of doing something is under 1%, then a 75% increase in the chance of me doing that same something will usually still be under 1%.

Whoever put it on here was a headline grabber
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 20, 2020, 12:38:36 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 19, 2020, 11:48:48 PM
It's statistical abuse, pure and simple.

If my chance of doing something is under 1%, then a 75% increase in the chance of me doing that same something will usually still be under 1%.

There is a lack of actual scientific basis here and I wouldn't trust Boris if he told me it was December. However, the numbers are not necessarily abuse, the probability of something happening may be 1%, but in a city of 10m people that could involve 100,000 people and that could still fill the hospitals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 20, 2020, 10:38:56 AM
The cynical part of me wonders is Boris doing a look over at corona virus and not at brexit to take the bad look of him.

Very little of what he says can be trusted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 20, 2020, 12:02:43 PM
Meanwhile in Wuhan as per videos doing the rounds, nightclubs are open.....it's party time.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 20, 2020, 01:25:39 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 20, 2020, 12:02:43 PM
Meanwhile in Wuhan as per videos doing the rounds, nightclubs are open.....it's party time.

Wuhan did the job right, not half baked measures. Across the year, doing the job right has lead to much less social or economic disruption.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 20, 2020, 02:11:22 PM
Is this new strain (the look away strain from a few nutters dragging the UK out of the EU with no deal) only prevalent in the UK?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on December 20, 2020, 02:19:41 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 20, 2020, 02:11:22 PM
Is this new strain (the look away strain from a few nutters dragging the UK out of the EU with no deal) only prevalent in the UK?

No, they say it's in Ireland already.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 20, 2020, 05:31:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 20, 2020, 01:25:39 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 20, 2020, 12:02:43 PM
Meanwhile in Wuhan as per videos doing the rounds, nightclubs are open.....it's party time.

Wuhan did the job right, not half baked measures. Across the year, doing the job right has lead to much less social or economic disruption.

Exactly, that included shutting absolutely everything, including schools down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 20, 2020, 05:36:06 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 20, 2020, 05:31:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 20, 2020, 01:25:39 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 20, 2020, 12:02:43 PM
Meanwhile in Wuhan as per videos doing the rounds, nightclubs are open.....it's party time.

Wuhan did the job right, not half baked measures. Across the year, doing the job right has lead to much less social or economic disruption.

Exactly, that included shutting absolutely everything, including schools down.

We had feck all cases in June following that period. The Chinese followed up by testing everyone to hunt down the remaining cases and of course checking anyone coming in to the country and we did not do this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on December 20, 2020, 06:05:48 PM
Weekly update for the ROI. A bad week the worst since early November.

Cases 3381 (1397 more than last week)
Reported Deaths 34 (6 more than last week)


In hospital 233 (40 more than last week)
In ICU 29 (2 less than a week ago)

Going by the rise in the last 7 days a educated guess says by this day next week we'll likely have 5000+ weekly cases and few will be complaining about further restrictions added on December 28th with those numbers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2020, 06:07:31 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 20, 2020, 06:05:48 PM
Weekly update for the ROI. A bad week the worst since early November.

Cases 3381 (1397 more than last week)
Reported Deaths 34 (6 more than last week)


In hospital 233 (40 more than last week)
In ICU 29 (2 less than a week ago)

Going by the rise in the last 7 days a educated guess says by this day next week we'll likely have 5000+ weekly cases and few will be complaining about further restrictions added on December 28th with those numbers.

Hopefully that'll bring the cases level to NI... no I'm just kidding that would be a dickhead thing to do
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 20, 2020, 06:12:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 20, 2020, 05:36:06 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 20, 2020, 05:31:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 20, 2020, 01:25:39 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 20, 2020, 12:02:43 PM
Meanwhile in Wuhan as per videos doing the rounds, nightclubs are open.....it's party time.

Wuhan did the job right, not half baked measures. Across the year, doing the job right has lead to much less social or economic disruption.

Exactly, that included shutting absolutely everything, including schools down.

We had feck all cases in June following that period. The Chinese followed up by testing everyone to hunt down the remaining cases and of course checking anyone coming in to the country and we did not do this.

Exactly my point. You are either serious about addressing a problem, your half asssd or you aren't bothered.

The West is paying the price for embracing the latter two.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on December 20, 2020, 06:12:36 PM
https://ft.com/content/a0bef737-c763-447a-b1f3-0649dc5989a0... The increased infectivity of the variant is illustrated by the fact that, after appearing in Kent on September 20, it was responsible for 28 per cent of infections in London by early November and 62 per cent in the week ending December 9.

Scientists say two aspects of B.1.1.7 give cause for concern. One is the unprecedented number of mutations it carries. The other is the speed with which it is supplanting other strains of the Sars-Cov-2 virus in south-east England.

The increased infectivity of the variant is illustrated by the fact that, after appearing in Kent on September 20, it was responsible for 28 per cent of infections in London by early November and 62 per cent in the week ending December 9.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 20, 2020, 06:13:13 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 20, 2020, 06:05:48 PM
Weekly update for the ROI. A bad week the worst since early November.

Cases 3381 (1397 more than last week)
Reported Deaths 34 (6 more than last week)


In hospital 233 (40 more than last week)
In ICU 29 (2 less than a week ago)

Going by the rise in the last 7 days a educated guess says by this day next week we'll likely have 5000+ weekly cases and few will be complaining about further restrictions added on December 28th with those numbers.

It provides a lot of empirical evidence that restaurants and pubs increase numbers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 20, 2020, 06:19:13 PM
A general statement with no specific facts provides empirical data? Christ the night.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 20, 2020, 06:22:00 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 20, 2020, 06:19:13 PM
A general statement with no specific facts provides empirical data? Christ the night.

Cunny Funt posted the facts, I put forward a hypothesis. If you have anything useful to say about either of these then fire ahead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 20, 2020, 06:42:29 PM
No, you've stated 'it provides a lot of empirical evidence' it does absolutely nothing of the sort.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on December 20, 2020, 06:51:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 20, 2020, 06:13:13 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 20, 2020, 06:05:48 PM
Weekly update for the ROI. A bad week the worst since early November.

Cases 3381 (1397 more than last week)
Reported Deaths 34 (6 more than last week)


In hospital 233 (40 more than last week)
In ICU 29 (2 less than a week ago)

Going by the rise in the last 7 days a educated guess says by this day next week we'll likely have 5000+ weekly cases and few will be complaining about further restrictions added on December 28th with those numbers.

It provides a lot of empirical evidence that restaurants and pubs increase numbers.

Everywhere is packed now. Went to Dunnes today and had to queue for a hour. Covid hasn't stopped the madness at Christmas.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2020, 07:03:56 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 20, 2020, 06:51:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 20, 2020, 06:13:13 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 20, 2020, 06:05:48 PM
Weekly update for the ROI. A bad week the worst since early November.

Cases 3381 (1397 more than last week)
Reported Deaths 34 (6 more than last week)


In hospital 233 (40 more than last week)
In ICU 29 (2 less than a week ago)

Going by the rise in the last 7 days a educated guess says by this day next week we'll likely have 5000+ weekly cases and few will be complaining about further restrictions added on December 28th with those numbers.

It provides a lot of empirical evidence that restaurants and pubs increase numbers.

Everywhere is packed now. Went to Dunnes today and had to queue for a hour. Covid hasn't stopped the madness at Christmas.

Letterkenny rammed today, Derry not as much but still busy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on December 20, 2020, 07:07:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 20, 2020, 06:13:13 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 20, 2020, 06:05:48 PM
Weekly update for the ROI. A bad week the worst since early November.

Cases 3381 (1397 more than last week)
Reported Deaths 34 (6 more than last week)


In hospital 233 (40 more than last week)
In ICU 29 (2 less than a week ago)

Going by the rise in the last 7 days a educated guess says by this day next week we'll likely have 5000+ weekly cases and few will be complaining about further restrictions added on December 28th with those numbers.

It provides a lot of empirical evidence that restaurants and pubs increase numbers.

The fact cases on the increase is no doubt due to many things, including pubs and restaurants among others. With more people out and about mixing the virus spreads at a higher rate.

It could be worse. When you at the videos on social media today of the madness in the London train stations yesterday I'm glad I've no friends or relations travelling through there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on December 20, 2020, 07:35:49 PM
What's the big meeting about tonight?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: FermGael on December 20, 2020, 07:43:20 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 20, 2020, 07:35:49 PM
What's the big meeting about tonight?

Christmas Party ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on December 20, 2020, 07:44:26 PM
The purpose of the meeting is that because London did something OTT, they have got to at least be seen to be considering similar measures.

It's all politics tonight; got f**k all to do with pandemic policy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 20, 2020, 07:45:19 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 20, 2020, 07:35:49 PM
What's the big meeting about tonight?

If you ask me, I think they're gonna make the easing of restrictions one day now instead of the 5 days.
4 of the parties will want to stop flights from England immediately, same as down south. We all know which party will object. Expect a petition of concern.

Could be a long night.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on December 20, 2020, 07:55:23 PM
Quote from: FermGael on December 20, 2020, 07:43:20 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 20, 2020, 07:35:49 PM
What's the big meeting about tonight?

Christmas Party ?

Gerry Kelly tackling Arlene on the photocopier.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2020, 08:00:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 20, 2020, 07:45:19 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 20, 2020, 07:35:49 PM
What's the big meeting about tonight?

If you ask me, I think they're gonna make the easing of restrictions one day now instead of the 5 days.
4 of the parties will want to stop flights from England immediately, same as down south. We all know which party will object. Expect a petition of concern.

Could be a long night.

Stopping flights ferry's should have been done from the start..

Containing it on an island would have enabled everyone to get back to work and a thriving economy.

Nah, sure why would you do that? If given the same problem in 5 years (god forbid) the same Cnuts would do the same thing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on December 20, 2020, 08:16:35 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 20, 2020, 07:55:23 PM
Quote from: FermGael on December 20, 2020, 07:43:20 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 20, 2020, 07:35:49 PM
What's the big meeting about tonight?

Christmas Party ?

Gerry Kelly tackling Arlene on the photocopier.

;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on December 20, 2020, 08:30:51 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 20, 2020, 07:44:26 PM
The purpose of the meeting is that because London did something OTT, they have got to at least be seen to be considering similar measures.

It's all politics tonight; got f**k all to do with pandemic policy.

Tbf I don't think this is about politics. Politicians are bound to be genuinely scared as they know previous delays and complacency and indecision were a disaster. There is clear evidence of a more infectious mutation in England., The hospitals and ambulance service here are already under pressure . Government needs to act quick and firmly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hereiam on December 20, 2020, 09:05:29 PM
Do we get to call this the "Brit Flu" now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 20, 2020, 09:14:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 19, 2020, 11:38:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2020, 11:26:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 19, 2020, 11:16:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2020, 10:31:24 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 19, 2020, 10:24:09 PM
The new variant in London 75% stronger then what was already there. They would need a good vaccine for it.

Hopefully it stays out of this island but with people travelling back for Christmas that's debatable

Did they not say it was more contiguous?

Yeah they did

Did they say it was 75% stronger, as in more lethal?

More contagious i think but not sure on strength or lethality

Typically, a virus will mutate to become more contagious and/or less lethal.

The simple evolutionary pressure is - if more people are running around not aware they have it - then they are more likely to pass it on than other variants.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: FermGael on December 20, 2020, 10:59:25 PM
So basically the UK have known about this since September and are only letting the rest of the world know this weekend.
Sound bunch of lads ....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2020, 11:09:57 PM
Quote from: FermGael on December 20, 2020, 10:59:25 PM
So basically the UK have known about this since September and are only letting the rest of the world know this weekend.
Sound bunch of lads ....

Would explain so much, rotten to the core
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on December 21, 2020, 12:16:40 AM
Complete shitshow! Brexit as well and yet a poll came out today showing the Tories are still the preferred party over there... it's one calamity after another how is this possible??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on December 21, 2020, 04:20:41 AM
Quote from: screenexile on December 21, 2020, 12:16:40 AM
Complete shitshow! Brexit as well and yet a poll came out today showing the Tories are still the preferred party over there... it's one calamity after another how is this possible??

internet social media conspiracy culture the alt right now have infiltrated all aspects of society also all the media has to do is call labour marxists England is a conservative country.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on December 21, 2020, 07:54:35 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on December 20, 2020, 09:05:29 PM
Do we get to call this the "Brit Flu" now.

Why would you do that?

Even Donald Trump would not be stupid enough to do that (I hope).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on December 21, 2020, 08:03:20 AM
Quote from: FermGael on December 20, 2020, 10:59:25 PM
So basically the UK have known about this since September and are only letting the rest of the world know this weekend.
Sound bunch of lads ....

Just not true.

UK will have questions to answer but it isn't as simple as you make out.

The world is alive to new mutations and has known about the existence of this mutation since at least April. The first recorded incidence of this variant in UK appears to have been identified in October from a sample taken in September.

The key is that at that stage is nothing is known about the different level of infectiousness of the new variant. The data on that is still emerging. When it does there will be questions of UK, Brazil, USA and Australia amongst others as to whether they had data that would allow any additional risk to be identified earlier. And it very much looks like there is an additional risk. Still unclear as to why there weren't earlier signs of this or why they were not identified.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 21, 2020, 08:44:40 AM
Quote from: LCohen on December 21, 2020, 08:03:20 AM
Quote from: FermGael on December 20, 2020, 10:59:25 PM
So basically the UK have known about this since September and are only letting the rest of the world know this weekend.
Sound bunch of lads ....

Just not true.

UK will have questions to answer but it isn't as simple as you make out.

Its a play on the typical assignment of blame on the Chinese...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: FermGael on December 21, 2020, 09:45:18 AM
Quote from: LCohen on December 21, 2020, 08:03:20 AM
Quote from: FermGael on December 20, 2020, 10:59:25 PM
So basically the UK have known about this since September and are only letting the rest of the world know this weekend.
Sound bunch of lads ....

Just not true.

UK will have questions to answer but it isn't as simple as you make out.

The world is alive to new mutations and has known about the existence of this mutation since at least April. The first recorded incidence of this variant in UK appears to have been identified in October from a sample taken in September.

The key is that at that stage is nothing is known about the different level of infectiousness of the new variant. The data on that is still emerging. When it does there will be questions of UK, Brazil, USA and Australia amongst others as to whether they had data that would allow any additional risk to be identified earlier. And it very much looks like there is an additional risk. Still unclear as to why there weren't earlier signs of this or why they were not identified.

Tell me what bit is not true.
When was it discovered ?
When did they inform the rest of Europe /World ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on December 21, 2020, 09:49:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2020, 08:00:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 20, 2020, 07:45:19 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 20, 2020, 07:35:49 PM
What's the big meeting about tonight?

If you ask me, I think they're gonna make the easing of restrictions one day now instead of the 5 days.
4 of the parties will want to stop flights from England immediately, same as down south. We all know which party will object. Expect a petition of concern.

Could be a long night.

Stopping flights ferry's should have been done from the start..

Containing it on an island would have enabled everyone to get back to work and a thriving economy.

Nah, sure why would you do that? If given the same problem in 5 years (god forbid) the same Cnuts would do the same thing

I'm fairly sure you were against tight restrictions early on?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 21, 2020, 09:54:05 AM
Quote from: FermGael on December 21, 2020, 09:45:18 AM
Quote from: LCohen on December 21, 2020, 08:03:20 AM
Quote from: FermGael on December 20, 2020, 10:59:25 PM
So basically the UK have known about this since September and are only letting the rest of the world know this weekend.
Sound bunch of lads ....

Just not true.

UK will have questions to answer but it isn't as simple as you make out.

The world is alive to new mutations and has known about the existence of this mutation since at least April. The first recorded incidence of this variant in UK appears to have been identified in October from a sample taken in September.

The key is that at that stage is nothing is known about the different level of infectiousness of the new variant. The data on that is still emerging. When it does there will be questions of UK, Brazil, USA and Australia amongst others as to whether they had data that would allow any additional risk to be identified earlier. And it very much looks like there is an additional risk. Still unclear as to why there weren't earlier signs of this or why they were not identified.

Tell me what bit is not true.
When was it discovered ?
When did they inform the rest of Europe /World ?

I think the scientists only came last week with the news of how potentially dangerous the strain was. There's been 100's of variants some with no impact. So I think it takes time to build out the data on each strain and identify the risks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on December 21, 2020, 10:27:36 AM
Governments closing borders to the UK is just optics. It looks like they know what their doing. That they are on top of things. In reality Bulgaria, Switzerland or Hong Kong banning travel makes no difference.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on December 21, 2020, 10:38:25 AM
Quote from: FermGael on December 21, 2020, 09:45:18 AM
Quote from: LCohen on December 21, 2020, 08:03:20 AM
Quote from: FermGael on December 20, 2020, 10:59:25 PM
So basically the UK have known about this since September and are only letting the rest of the world know this weekend.
Sound bunch of lads ....

Just not true.

UK will have questions to answer but it isn't as simple as you make out.

The world is alive to new mutations and has known about the existence of this mutation since at least April. The first recorded incidence of this variant in UK appears to have been identified in October from a sample taken in September.

The key is that at that stage is nothing is known about the different level of infectiousness of the new variant. The data on that is still emerging. When it does there will be questions of UK, Brazil, USA and Australia amongst others as to whether they had data that would allow any additional risk to be identified earlier. And it very much looks like there is an additional risk. Still unclear as to why there weren't earlier signs of this or why they were not identified.

Tell me what bit is not true.
When was it discovered ?
When did they inform the rest of Europe /World ?

The scientific community were informed of the mutation in September. Given it is was just one of 4,000 mutations currently known, no-one gave a flying shit, especially the media.

Since Boris decided to tell everyone this is a "supervirus" and the media like a good doomsday story it's only becoming relevant now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 21, 2020, 10:50:43 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 21, 2020, 09:49:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2020, 08:00:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 20, 2020, 07:45:19 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 20, 2020, 07:35:49 PM
What's the big meeting about tonight?

If you ask me, I think they're gonna make the easing of restrictions one day now instead of the 5 days.
4 of the parties will want to stop flights from England immediately, same as down south. We all know which party will object. Expect a petition of concern.

Could be a long night.

Stopping flights ferry's should have been done from the start..

Containing it on an island would have enabled everyone to get back to work and a thriving economy.

Nah, sure why would you do that? If given the same problem in 5 years (god forbid) the same Cnuts would do the same thing

I'm fairly sure you were against tight restrictions early on?

My first real contribution on it March the 3rd:

Seems like a lot of people in the media are very worried about their sick friends/family

Use common sense, if you've a sick member of your family who fits the description of people who are more likely to get the worst from this flu like virus  ;) (like my dad) then take the proper precautions, ensure they are self isolating or being looked after by someone who's taking the right precautions!

Other than that there isn't much you can do, heaven forbid it happen to a loved one but the panic stuff going on is nuts. You can only deal with it if it happens, before that just be sensible

At the start (around the early March) I said the governments wouldn't close down the ports or airports, and we should be using common sense. None other that Radiogaga was calling for complete lockdown, New Zealand style..

I was wrong to assume that at the time, changing my views on it very soon after this escalated in April and beyond. Better to change your mind that dig your heels in ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 21, 2020, 11:14:17 AM
Quote from: trileacman on December 21, 2020, 10:38:25 AM
Quote from: FermGael on December 21, 2020, 09:45:18 AM
Quote from: LCohen on December 21, 2020, 08:03:20 AM
Quote from: FermGael on December 20, 2020, 10:59:25 PM
So basically the UK have known about this since September and are only letting the rest of the world know this weekend.
Sound bunch of lads ....

Just not true.

UK will have questions to answer but it isn't as simple as you make out.

The world is alive to new mutations and has known about the existence of this mutation since at least April. The first recorded incidence of this variant in UK appears to have been identified in October from a sample taken in September.

The key is that at that stage is nothing is known about the different level of infectiousness of the new variant. The data on that is still emerging. When it does there will be questions of UK, Brazil, USA and Australia amongst others as to whether they had data that would allow any additional risk to be identified earlier. And it very much looks like there is an additional risk. Still unclear as to why there weren't earlier signs of this or why they were not identified.

Tell me what bit is not true.
When was it discovered ?
When did they inform the rest of Europe /World ?

The scientific community were informed of the mutation in September. Given it is was just one of 4,000 mutations currently known, no-one gave a flying shit, especially the media.

Since Boris decided to tell everyone this is a "supervirus" and the media like a good doomsday story it's only becoming relevant now.
That is about the height of it, he was trying to scare the complacency out of the Londoners and UK in general and it's taken on a bit of a life of it's own, hopefully only short term levels of over reaction.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 21, 2020, 12:12:37 PM
Should the governments of Ireland not spend a day and  test a few random secondary schools all over the island and get a read on this ? might be more valuable than guessing .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 21, 2020, 02:22:47 PM
I see Dorman's in magherafelt have been naughty. Seem to have been shut as the queuing for what seemed to be their "late night restaurant " was getting out of control.

This British government has to be one of the worst in history. So there is a new strain in the uk. Surely that is most likely elsewhere too? I constantly wonder how much stuff they peddle to take the bad look of brexit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 21, 2020, 02:30:43 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 21, 2020, 02:22:47 PM
I see Dorman's in magherafelt have been naughty. Seem to have been shut as the queuing for what seemed to be their "late night restaurant " was getting out of control.

This British government has to be one of the worst in history. So there is a new strain in the uk. Surely that is most likely elsewhere too? I constantly wonder how much stuff they peddle to take the bad look of brexit.

Its fair to say Boris needs a result from somewhere, soon. I know we have an issue here with compliance or the likes. But can you imagine if you were British? They've had the year from hell over there. This new 70% more infectious mutation seems a bit....convenient shall we say.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 21, 2020, 02:33:14 PM
It appears some of the media have morphed it from 70% more contagious to 70 times more contagious..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 21, 2020, 02:38:42 PM
Yeah well you know the craic yourself, bad news sells.

I see we have vaccinated, or the first initial jab into 14,000 here. Over 10 times our death rate. I would have thought that to be something to celebrate but not a mention.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 21, 2020, 03:15:26 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 21, 2020, 02:33:14 PM
It appears some of the media have morphed it from 70% more contagious to 70 times more contagious..

Lol, class
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on December 21, 2020, 03:22:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 21, 2020, 10:50:43 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 21, 2020, 09:49:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2020, 08:00:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 20, 2020, 07:45:19 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 20, 2020, 07:35:49 PM
What's the big meeting about tonight?

If you ask me, I think they're gonna make the easing of restrictions one day now instead of the 5 days.
4 of the parties will want to stop flights from England immediately, same as down south. We all know which party will object. Expect a petition of concern.

Could be a long night.

Stopping flights ferry's should have been done from the start..

Containing it on an island would have enabled everyone to get back to work and a thriving economy.

Nah, sure why would you do that? If given the same problem in 5 years (god forbid) the same Cnuts would do the same thing

I'm fairly sure you were against tight restrictions early on?

My first real contribution on it March the 3rd:

Seems like a lot of people in the media are very worried about their sick friends/family

Use common sense, if you've a sick member of your family who fits the description of people who are more likely to get the worst from this flu like virus  ;) (like my dad) then take the proper precautions, ensure they are self isolating or being looked after by someone who's taking the right precautions!

Other than that there isn't much you can do, heaven forbid it happen to a loved one but the panic stuff going on is nuts. You can only deal with it if it happens, before that just be sensible

At the start (around the early March) I said the governments wouldn't close down the ports or airports, and we should be using common sense. None other that Radiogaga was calling for complete lockdown, New Zealand style..

I was wrong to assume that at the time, changing my views on it very soon after this escalated in April and beyond. Better to change your mind that dig your heels in ;)

In fairness there were plenty of people who were in the same boat as you - who didn't take it seriously enough at exactly the time when firm action was necessary

"closing airports is just nuts" was a common theme.

The thing is, if that had been done, we possibly wouldn't be here now

But you can guarantee that the people who had said it was nuts to go in hard early on this would be the same people now on blowing about how the reaction was OTT

RadioGAA's predictions have been proven right time and time again on this one

Which is unfortunate - because his predictions were dire!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on December 21, 2020, 03:26:23 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 21, 2020, 03:22:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 21, 2020, 10:50:43 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 21, 2020, 09:49:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2020, 08:00:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 20, 2020, 07:45:19 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 20, 2020, 07:35:49 PM
What's the big meeting about tonight?

If you ask me, I think they're gonna make the easing of restrictions one day now instead of the 5 days.
4 of the parties will want to stop flights from England immediately, same as down south. We all know which party will object. Expect a petition of concern.

Could be a long night.

Stopping flights ferry's should have been done from the start..

Containing it on an island would have enabled everyone to get back to work and a thriving economy.

Nah, sure why would you do that? If given the same problem in 5 years (god forbid) the same Cnuts would do the same thing

I'm fairly sure you were against tight restrictions early on?

My first real contribution on it March the 3rd:

Seems like a lot of people in the media are very worried about their sick friends/family

Use common sense, if you've a sick member of your family who fits the description of people who are more likely to get the worst from this flu like virus  ;) (like my dad) then take the proper precautions, ensure they are self isolating or being looked after by someone who's taking the right precautions!

Other than that there isn't much you can do, heaven forbid it happen to a loved one but the panic stuff going on is nuts. You can only deal with it if it happens, before that just be sensible

At the start (around the early March) I said the governments wouldn't close down the ports or airports, and we should be using common sense. None other that Radiogaga was calling for complete lockdown, New Zealand style..

I was wrong to assume that at the time, changing my views on it very soon after this escalated in April and beyond. Better to change your mind that dig your heels in ;)

In fairness there were plenty of people who were in the same boat as you - who didn't take it seriously enough at exactly the time when firm action was necessary

"closing airports is just nuts" was a common theme.

The thing is, if that had been done, we possibly wouldn't be here now

But you can guarantee that the people who had said it was nuts to go in hard early on this would be the same people now on blowing about how the reaction was OTT

RadioGAA's predictions have been proven right time and time again on this one

Which is unfortunate - because his predictions were dire!

Closing travel routes was a necessity back then.

As a small island on the west Europe, nobody was in as good a position to contain this as Ireland was.

How many people flew home from Spain in the months of March and April when the virus was like wildfire over there?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on December 21, 2020, 04:14:08 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 21, 2020, 02:38:42 PM
Yeah well you know the craic yourself, bad news sells.

I see we have vaccinated, or the first initial jab into 14,000 here. Over 10 times our death rate. I would have thought that to be something to celebrate but not a mention.

Totally agree.

I stopped going to the RTE website, nothing but depressing bad news.
IMO,they also seem to be very intent on giving our very senior politicians a pass on almost everything.

As an aside, the sooner Irish people put this daft bitter history of FF/FG politics behind them and fund and support a rural Ireland party, the better.
I wonder if things would have been so much better if counties such as Mayo, Sligo, Donegal,Roscommon, Leitrim, etc, had a unified voice that had a meaningful say in Irish politics for the last two decades or so.
I find it hard to believe that it would not be a lot more equitable, and that we would still not see our best and brightest still heading to Dublin for work and in most cases living there for the rest of their lives.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 21, 2020, 04:56:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 21, 2020, 03:26:23 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 21, 2020, 03:22:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 21, 2020, 10:50:43 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 21, 2020, 09:49:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2020, 08:00:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 20, 2020, 07:45:19 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 20, 2020, 07:35:49 PM
What's the big meeting about tonight?

If you ask me, I think they're gonna make the easing of restrictions one day now instead of the 5 days.
4 of the parties will want to stop flights from England immediately, same as down south. We all know which party will object. Expect a petition of concern.

Could be a long night.

Stopping flights ferry's should have been done from the start..

Containing it on an island would have enabled everyone to get back to work and a thriving economy.

Nah, sure why would you do that? If given the same problem in 5 years (god forbid) the same Cnuts would do the same thing

I'm fairly sure you were against tight restrictions early on?

My first real contribution on it March the 3rd:

Seems like a lot of people in the media are very worried about their sick friends/family

Use common sense, if you've a sick member of your family who fits the description of people who are more likely to get the worst from this flu like virus  ;) (like my dad) then take the proper precautions, ensure they are self isolating or being looked after by someone who's taking the right precautions!

Other than that there isn't much you can do, heaven forbid it happen to a loved one but the panic stuff going on is nuts. You can only deal with it if it happens, before that just be sensible

At the start (around the early March) I said the governments wouldn't close down the ports or airports, and we should be using common sense. None other that Radiogaga was calling for complete lockdown, New Zealand style..

I was wrong to assume that at the time, changing my views on it very soon after this escalated in April and beyond. Better to change your mind that dig your heels in ;)

In fairness there were plenty of people who were in the same boat as you - who didn't take it seriously enough at exactly the time when firm action was necessary

"closing airports is just nuts" was a common theme.

The thing is, if that had been done, we possibly wouldn't be here now

But you can guarantee that the people who had said it was nuts to go in hard early on this would be the same people now on blowing about how the reaction was OTT

RadioGAA's predictions have been proven right time and time again on this one

Which is unfortunate - because his predictions were dire!

Closing travel routes was a necessity back then.

As a small island on the west Europe, nobody was in as good a position to contain this as Ireland was.

How many people flew home from Spain in the months of March and April when the virus was like wildfire over there?

In a nutshell but when you have the self entitled like those on this board with the Milhouse feck you as lond as I am ok attitude, no one was ever controlling this. As long as he got a nice tan eh!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 21, 2020, 05:48:42 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 21, 2020, 04:56:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 21, 2020, 03:26:23 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 21, 2020, 03:22:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 21, 2020, 10:50:43 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 21, 2020, 09:49:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2020, 08:00:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 20, 2020, 07:45:19 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 20, 2020, 07:35:49 PM
What's the big meeting about tonight?

If you ask me, I think they're gonna make the easing of restrictions one day now instead of the 5 days.
4 of the parties will want to stop flights from England immediately, same as down south. We all know which party will object. Expect a petition of concern.

Could be a long night.

Stopping flights ferry's should have been done from the start..

Containing it on an island would have enabled everyone to get back to work and a thriving economy.

Nah, sure why would you do that? If given the same problem in 5 years (god forbid) the same Cnuts would do the same thing

I'm fairly sure you were against tight restrictions early on?

My first real contribution on it March the 3rd:

Seems like a lot of people in the media are very worried about their sick friends/family

Use common sense, if you've a sick member of your family who fits the description of people who are more likely to get the worst from this flu like virus  ;) (like my dad) then take the proper precautions, ensure they are self isolating or being looked after by someone who's taking the right precautions!

Other than that there isn't much you can do, heaven forbid it happen to a loved one but the panic stuff going on is nuts. You can only deal with it if it happens, before that just be sensible

At the start (around the early March) I said the governments wouldn't close down the ports or airports, and we should be using common sense. None other that Radiogaga was calling for complete lockdown, New Zealand style..

I was wrong to assume that at the time, changing my views on it very soon after this escalated in April and beyond. Better to change your mind that dig your heels in ;)

In fairness there were plenty of people who were in the same boat as you - who didn't take it seriously enough at exactly the time when firm action was necessary

"closing airports is just nuts" was a common theme.

The thing is, if that had been done, we possibly wouldn't be here now

But you can guarantee that the people who had said it was nuts to go in hard early on this would be the same people now on blowing about how the reaction was OTT

RadioGAA's predictions have been proven right time and time again on this one

Which is unfortunate - because his predictions were dire!

Closing travel routes was a necessity back then.

As a small island on the west Europe, nobody was in as good a position to contain this as Ireland was.

How many people flew home from Spain in the months of March and April when the virus was like wildfire over there?

In a nutshell but when you have the self entitled like those on this board with the Milhouse feck you as lond as I am ok attitude, no one was ever controlling this. As long as he got a nice tan eh!

Bullying is not cool Seany.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 21, 2020, 06:40:13 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 21, 2020, 04:56:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 21, 2020, 03:26:23 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 21, 2020, 03:22:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 21, 2020, 10:50:43 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 21, 2020, 09:49:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2020, 08:00:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 20, 2020, 07:45:19 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 20, 2020, 07:35:49 PM
What's the big meeting about tonight?

If you ask me, I think they're gonna make the easing of restrictions one day now instead of the 5 days.
4 of the parties will want to stop flights from England immediately, same as down south. We all know which party will object. Expect a petition of concern.

Could be a long night.

Stopping flights ferry's should have been done from the start..

Containing it on an island would have enabled everyone to get back to work and a thriving economy.

Nah, sure why would you do that? If given the same problem in 5 years (god forbid) the same Cnuts would do the same thing

I'm fairly sure you were against tight restrictions early on?

My first real contribution on it March the 3rd:

Seems like a lot of people in the media are very worried about their sick friends/family

Use common sense, if you've a sick member of your family who fits the description of people who are more likely to get the worst from this flu like virus  ;) (like my dad) then take the proper precautions, ensure they are self isolating or being looked after by someone who's taking the right precautions!

Other than that there isn't much you can do, heaven forbid it happen to a loved one but the panic stuff going on is nuts. You can only deal with it if it happens, before that just be sensible

At the start (around the early March) I said the governments wouldn't close down the ports or airports, and we should be using common sense. None other that Radiogaga was calling for complete lockdown, New Zealand style..

I was wrong to assume that at the time, changing my views on it very soon after this escalated in April and beyond. Better to change your mind that dig your heels in ;)

In fairness there were plenty of people who were in the same boat as you - who didn't take it seriously enough at exactly the time when firm action was necessary

"closing airports is just nuts" was a common theme.

The thing is, if that had been done, we possibly wouldn't be here now

But you can guarantee that the people who had said it was nuts to go in hard early on this would be the same people now on blowing about how the reaction was OTT

RadioGAA's predictions have been proven right time and time again on this one

Which is unfortunate - because his predictions were dire!

Closing travel routes was a necessity back then.

As a small island on the west Europe, nobody was in as good a position to contain this as Ireland was.

How many people flew home from Spain in the months of March and April when the virus was like wildfire over there?

In a nutshell but when you have the self entitled like those on this board with the Milhouse feck you as lond as I am ok attitude, no one was ever controlling this. As long as he got a nice tan eh!

Entitled?
You're the one refusing to take the vaccine for at least ten years, putting others around at risk! You muppet

After trying to understand your post it gave me a sore head!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on December 22, 2020, 09:21:45 AM
I see the DUP and UUP rejected the motion to implement a travel ban from the UK to NI. A depressing, but not surprising decision. I can understand the theory that that are part of the UK,  but if Scotland and Wales can bring in a travel ban for people travelling from the England so could Stormont.

Only reason I can figure why is they are worried people will use this as a way to push for a united Ireland
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on December 22, 2020, 09:28:41 AM
https://www.newstatesman.com/world/europe/2020/12/sweden-s-covid-19-failures-have-exposed-myths-lockdown-sceptics

One for the lockdown sceptics

The Swedish model has failed miserably
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 22, 2020, 09:41:12 AM
Whereas the lockdown open up lockdown has worked amazingly!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 22, 2020, 09:42:33 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 21, 2020, 06:40:13 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 21, 2020, 04:56:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 21, 2020, 03:26:23 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 21, 2020, 03:22:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 21, 2020, 10:50:43 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 21, 2020, 09:49:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2020, 08:00:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 20, 2020, 07:45:19 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 20, 2020, 07:35:49 PM
What's the big meeting about tonight?

If you ask me, I think they're gonna make the easing of restrictions one day now instead of the 5 days.
4 of the parties will want to stop flights from England immediately, same as down south. We all know which party will object. Expect a petition of concern.

Could be a long night.

Stopping flights ferry's should have been done from the start..

Containing it on an island would have enabled everyone to get back to work and a thriving economy.

Nah, sure why would you do that? If given the same problem in 5 years (god forbid) the same Cnuts would do the same thing

I'm fairly sure you were against tight restrictions early on?

My first real contribution on it March the 3rd:

Seems like a lot of people in the media are very worried about their sick friends/family

Use common sense, if you've a sick member of your family who fits the description of people who are more likely to get the worst from this flu like virus  ;) (like my dad) then take the proper precautions, ensure they are self isolating or being looked after by someone who's taking the right precautions!

Other than that there isn't much you can do, heaven forbid it happen to a loved one but the panic stuff going on is nuts. You can only deal with it if it happens, before that just be sensible

At the start (around the early March) I said the governments wouldn't close down the ports or airports, and we should be using common sense. None other that Radiogaga was calling for complete lockdown, New Zealand style..

I was wrong to assume that at the time, changing my views on it very soon after this escalated in April and beyond. Better to change your mind that dig your heels in ;)

In fairness there were plenty of people who were in the same boat as you - who didn't take it seriously enough at exactly the time when firm action was necessary

"closing airports is just nuts" was a common theme.

The thing is, if that had been done, we possibly wouldn't be here now

But you can guarantee that the people who had said it was nuts to go in hard early on this would be the same people now on blowing about how the reaction was OTT

RadioGAA's predictions have been proven right time and time again on this one

Which is unfortunate - because his predictions were dire!

Closing travel routes was a necessity back then.

As a small island on the west Europe, nobody was in as good a position to contain this as Ireland was.

How many people flew home from Spain in the months of March and April when the virus was like wildfire over there?

In a nutshell but when you have the self entitled like those on this board with the Milhouse feck you as lond as I am ok attitude, no one was ever controlling this. As long as he got a nice tan eh!

Entitled?
You're the one refusing to take the vaccine for at least ten years, putting others around at risk! You muppet

After trying to understand your post it gave me a sore head!

Quote where I said that - the title of the would you take a vaccine was would you take it in 2021 - you said no, you selfish individual!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 22, 2020, 09:43:52 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 21, 2020, 05:48:42 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 21, 2020, 04:56:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 21, 2020, 03:26:23 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 21, 2020, 03:22:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 21, 2020, 10:50:43 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 21, 2020, 09:49:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 20, 2020, 08:00:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 20, 2020, 07:45:19 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 20, 2020, 07:35:49 PM
What's the big meeting about tonight?

If you ask me, I think they're gonna make the easing of restrictions one day now instead of the 5 days.
4 of the parties will want to stop flights from England immediately, same as down south. We all know which party will object. Expect a petition of concern.

Could be a long night.

Stopping flights ferry's should have been done from the start..

Containing it on an island would have enabled everyone to get back to work and a thriving economy.

Nah, sure why would you do that? If given the same problem in 5 years (god forbid) the same Cnuts would do the same thing

I'm fairly sure you were against tight restrictions early on?

My first real contribution on it March the 3rd:

Seems like a lot of people in the media are very worried about their sick friends/family

Use common sense, if you've a sick member of your family who fits the description of people who are more likely to get the worst from this flu like virus  ;) (like my dad) then take the proper precautions, ensure they are self isolating or being looked after by someone who's taking the right precautions!

Other than that there isn't much you can do, heaven forbid it happen to a loved one but the panic stuff going on is nuts. You can only deal with it if it happens, before that just be sensible

At the start (around the early March) I said the governments wouldn't close down the ports or airports, and we should be using common sense. None other that Radiogaga was calling for complete lockdown, New Zealand style..

I was wrong to assume that at the time, changing my views on it very soon after this escalated in April and beyond. Better to change your mind that dig your heels in ;)

In fairness there were plenty of people who were in the same boat as you - who didn't take it seriously enough at exactly the time when firm action was necessary

"closing airports is just nuts" was a common theme.

The thing is, if that had been done, we possibly wouldn't be here now

But you can guarantee that the people who had said it was nuts to go in hard early on this would be the same people now on blowing about how the reaction was OTT

RadioGAA's predictions have been proven right time and time again on this one

Which is unfortunate - because his predictions were dire!

Closing travel routes was a necessity back then.

As a small island on the west Europe, nobody was in as good a position to contain this as Ireland was.

How many people flew home from Spain in the months of March and April when the virus was like wildfire over there?

In a nutshell but when you have the self entitled like those on this board with the Milhouse feck you as lond as I am ok attitude, no one was ever controlling this. As long as he got a nice tan eh!

Bullying is not cool Seany.

Nor personal abuse but if the truth is construed as bullying, sobeit. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 22, 2020, 09:45:09 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 22, 2020, 09:21:45 AM
I see the DUP and UUP rejected the motion to implement a travel ban from the UK to NI. A depressing, but not surprising decision. I can understand the theory that that are part of the UK,  but if Scotland and Wales can bring in a travel ban for people travelling from the England so could Stormont.

Only reason I can figure why is they are worried people will use this as a way to push for a united Ireland
Travel ban chat aside, it would be an absolute miracle if this virus strain is not already here N&S, that horse has bolted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 22, 2020, 09:46:28 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 22, 2020, 09:21:45 AM
I see the DUP and UUP rejected the motion to implement a travel ban from the UK to NI. A depressing, but not surprising decision. I can understand the theory that that are part of the UK,  but if Scotland and Wales can bring in a travel ban for people travelling from the England so could Stormont.

Only reason I can figure why is they are worried people will use this as a way to push for a united Ireland

To be honest once they delayed acting the with the rest of the UK/Ireland/European countries, it's a waste of time. The horse has already bolted on this one.

The right thing would have been to block all travel first and then assess whether it was the right thing plus the ramifications over the next day or so; but alas the need to coat tail their London masters surpasses the need to do the right thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on December 22, 2020, 09:55:07 AM
Quote from: Seaney on December 22, 2020, 09:41:12 AM
Whereas the lockdown open up lockdown has worked amazingly!

Good point Seaney

You semi-literate fool
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on December 22, 2020, 09:56:44 AM
Travel ban to NI is a tricky one. It's not about just stopping cars driving, it's flights and ferries. There will be costs involved. Who pays those costs? Because I can tell you now it won't be Stena Line or Easyjet. I understand why people see it the perfect solution. In reality it isn't. What might be more helpful is to enforce the 10 days quarantine if you return from a tier 3 or 4 area. And as they are doing, asking people not to travel.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: FermGael on December 22, 2020, 12:03:56 PM
Imagine the situation was reversed.
There is a strain of Covid that is 70 % more contagious found in N.I.
Would GB have the border open ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on December 22, 2020, 12:08:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 22, 2020, 09:56:44 AM
Travel ban to NI is a tricky one. It's not about just stopping cars driving, it's flights and ferries. There will be costs involved. Who pays those costs? Because I can tell you now it won't be Stena Line or Easyjet. I understand why people see it the perfect solution. In reality it isn't. What might be more helpful is to enforce the 10 days quarantine if you return from a tier 3 or 4 area. And as they are doing, asking people not to travel.
The perfect solution is an island-wide approach which should have been adapted from the outset. Of course there is cost, but do you prioritise the economy (as as has seemingly been the approach thus far) or do you bite the bullet and take the hit which will relieve stress on the hospitals and more than likely be more beneficial in the long run? I couldn't give a rats ass about easyJet and with any luck they go under.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 22, 2020, 01:17:36 PM
Quote from: FermGael on December 22, 2020, 12:03:56 PM
Imagine the situation was reversed.
There is a strain of Covid that is 70 % more contagious found in N.I.
Would GB have the border open ?

We'd have been carpet bombed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 22, 2020, 01:21:01 PM
Quote from: FermGael on December 22, 2020, 12:03:56 PM
Imagine the situation was reversed.
There is a strain of Covid that is 70 % more contagious found in N.I.
Would GB have the border open ?


Brandon Lewis would be breaking into the news announcing an immediate border poll, with all government resources going into the Yes campaign.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on December 22, 2020, 01:48:32 PM
So just been announced back into Level 5 lockdown from the 26th  :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 02:11:03 PM
Likelihood is that the strain is well and truly on the island at present so it's like closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

Do we stay locked down now until we have the elderly, healthcare workers and vulnerable vaccinated?

Over 65s account for over 90% of deaths. Surely after this demograph has been vaccinated we can get back to normal?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2020, 02:43:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 02:11:03 PM
Likelihood is that the strain is well and truly on the island at present so it's like closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

Do we stay locked down now until we have the elderly, healthcare workers and vulnerable vaccinated?

Over 65s account for over 90% of deaths. Surely after this demograph has been vaccinated we can get back to normal?

Unless you are under 65 and have underlying health conditions..

Sure as long as we all follow the guidelines like you have been doing we can just carry on for ten years until we know the big pharmaceutical companies haven't tried to put micro chips in us
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2020, 02:43:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 02:11:03 PM
Likelihood is that the strain is well and truly on the island at present so it's like closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

Do we stay locked down now until we have the elderly, healthcare workers and vulnerable vaccinated?

Over 65s account for over 90% of deaths. Surely after this demograph has been vaccinated we can get back to normal?

Unless you are under 65 and have underlying health conditions..

Sure as long as we all follow the guidelines like you have been doing we can just carry on for ten years until we know the big pharmaceutical companies haven't tried to put micro chips in us

Over 65s account for over 90% of deaths.

People with underlying health conditions regardless of age are on of the priority groups for vaccinations. The vulnerable people under 65 are not a huge section of the population so should not take long to get the vaccination.

Anyone who wants to get the vaccine can, I'm not telling them not to. That's your choice, I'll just make decisions regarding my own personal health.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 22, 2020, 03:22:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 03:15:04 PM
Anyone who wants to get the vaccine can, I'm not telling them not to. That's your choice, I'll just make decisions regarding my own personal health.

You do not have the right to make decision about our health by continuing to spread a disease.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2020, 03:26:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2020, 02:43:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 02:11:03 PM
Likelihood is that the strain is well and truly on the island at present so it's like closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

Do we stay locked down now until we have the elderly, healthcare workers and vulnerable vaccinated?

Over 65s account for over 90% of deaths. Surely after this demograph has been vaccinated we can get back to normal?

Unless you are under 65 and have underlying health conditions..

Sure as long as we all follow the guidelines like you have been doing we can just carry on for ten years until we know the big pharmaceutical companies haven't tried to put micro chips in us

Over 65s account for over 90% of deaths.

People with underlying health conditions regardless of age are on of the priority groups for vaccinations. The vulnerable people under 65 are not a huge section of the population so should not take long to get the vaccination.

Anyone who wants to get the vaccine can, I'm not telling them not to. That's your choice, I'll just make decisions regarding my own personal health.

The thing is, no one is actually following the procedures, otherwise the rate would be a lot lower so you looking after you personal health doesn't actually cut it, as its being passed on regardless it seems
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 04:11:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2020, 03:26:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2020, 02:43:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 02:11:03 PM
Likelihood is that the strain is well and truly on the island at present so it's like closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

Do we stay locked down now until we have the elderly, healthcare workers and vulnerable vaccinated?

Over 65s account for over 90% of deaths. Surely after this demograph has been vaccinated we can get back to normal?

Unless you are under 65 and have underlying health conditions..

Sure as long as we all follow the guidelines like you have been doing we can just carry on for ten years until we know the big pharmaceutical companies haven't tried to put micro chips in us

Over 65s account for over 90% of deaths.

People with underlying health conditions regardless of age are on of the priority groups for vaccinations. The vulnerable people under 65 are not a huge section of the population so should not take long to get the vaccination.

Anyone who wants to get the vaccine can, I'm not telling them not to. That's your choice, I'll just make decisions regarding my own personal health.

The thing is, no one is actually following the procedures, otherwise the rate would be a lot lower so you looking after you personal health doesn't actually cut it, as its being passed on regardless it seems

If a person follows the precautions and looks after themselves then they should not be getting it. The people who don't run the risk so it's down to an individual level.

What we know is that outside of vulnerable groups and the elderly, the virus seems to have an extremely low fatality rate. So providing the vaccine works and once those vulnerable groups get vaccinated we should be able to gradually roll back. But it's going to be 3/4 months really before we know of the success of the vaccine in terms of stopping the spread/reducing the impact. Right now the vaccine is nothing more than a bubble of hope.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 04:15:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 22, 2020, 03:22:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 03:15:04 PM
Anyone who wants to get the vaccine can, I'm not telling them not to. That's your choice, I'll just make decisions regarding my own personal health.

You do not have the right to make decision about our health by continuing to spread a disease.

That's very dictatorial language. I don't have a disease. I have taken the necessary precautions to look after myself and my health since this pandemic started and will continue to do so.

So you can take your brand of fascism elsewhere, my friend.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on December 22, 2020, 04:22:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 04:11:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2020, 03:26:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2020, 02:43:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 02:11:03 PM
Likelihood is that the strain is well and truly on the island at present so it's like closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

Do we stay locked down now until we have the elderly, healthcare workers and vulnerable vaccinated?

Over 65s account for over 90% of deaths. Surely after this demograph has been vaccinated we can get back to normal?

Unless you are under 65 and have underlying health conditions..

Sure as long as we all follow the guidelines like you have been doing we can just carry on for ten years until we know the big pharmaceutical companies haven't tried to put micro chips in us

Over 65s account for over 90% of deaths.

People with underlying health conditions regardless of age are on of the priority groups for vaccinations. The vulnerable people under 65 are not a huge section of the population so should not take long to get the vaccination.

Anyone who wants to get the vaccine can, I'm not telling them not to. That's your choice, I'll just make decisions regarding my own personal health.

The thing is, no one is actually following the procedures, otherwise the rate would be a lot lower so you looking after you personal health doesn't actually cut it, as its being passed on regardless it seems

If a person follows the precautions and looks after themselves then they should not be getting it. The people who don't run the risk so it's down to an individual level.

What we know is that outside of vulnerable groups and the elderly, the virus seems to have an extremely low fatality rate. So providing the vaccine works and once those vulnerable groups get vaccinated we should be able to gradually roll back. But it's going to be 3/4 months really before we know of the success of the vaccine in terms of stopping the spread/reducing the impact. Right now the vaccine is nothing more than a bubble of hope.

Should is the key world of your 1st sentence. You can take precautions, but there's still a chance you  or anyone can pick up the virus. I'm amazed you can be so convinced you won't get it.

The vaccine will only work if people take it, but if people think like you and don't take it what do we do then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 04:25:28 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on December 22, 2020, 04:22:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 04:11:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2020, 03:26:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 03:15:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2020, 02:43:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 02:11:03 PM
Likelihood is that the strain is well and truly on the island at present so it's like closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

Do we stay locked down now until we have the elderly, healthcare workers and vulnerable vaccinated?

Over 65s account for over 90% of deaths. Surely after this demograph has been vaccinated we can get back to normal?

Unless you are under 65 and have underlying health conditions..

Sure as long as we all follow the guidelines like you have been doing we can just carry on for ten years until we know the big pharmaceutical companies haven't tried to put micro chips in us

Over 65s account for over 90% of deaths.

People with underlying health conditions regardless of age are on of the priority groups for vaccinations. The vulnerable people under 65 are not a huge section of the population so should not take long to get the vaccination.

Anyone who wants to get the vaccine can, I'm not telling them not to. That's your choice, I'll just make decisions regarding my own personal health.

The thing is, no one is actually following the procedures, otherwise the rate would be a lot lower so you looking after you personal health doesn't actually cut it, as its being passed on regardless it seems

If a person follows the precautions and looks after themselves then they should not be getting it. The people who don't run the risk so it's down to an individual level.

What we know is that outside of vulnerable groups and the elderly, the virus seems to have an extremely low fatality rate. So providing the vaccine works and once those vulnerable groups get vaccinated we should be able to gradually roll back. But it's going to be 3/4 months really before we know of the success of the vaccine in terms of stopping the spread/reducing the impact. Right now the vaccine is nothing more than a bubble of hope.

Should is the key world of your 1st sentence. You can take precautions, but there's still a chance you  or anyone can pick up the virus. I'm amazed you can be so convinced you won't get it.

The vaccine will only work if people take it, but if people think like you and don't take it what do we do then?

I'm not convinced but taking the necessary precautions significantly reduce the chance of contracting and spreading the virus.

Taking the vaccine would only seem to basically reduce your chances of getting sick from the virus, as far as research goes they don't seem to have much impact on actually getting the virus and passing it on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 22, 2020, 05:25:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 04:25:28 PM
Taking the vaccine would only seem to basically reduce your chances of getting sick from the virus, as far as research goes they don't seem to have much impact on actually getting the virus and passing it on.

The research has not concluded at this point, but any research that does exist tends to show that virus transmission is reduced.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on December 22, 2020, 06:07:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 22, 2020, 09:56:44 AM
Travel ban to NI is a tricky one. It's not about just stopping cars driving, it's flights and ferries. There will be costs involved. Who pays those costs? Because I can tell you now it won't be Stena Line or Easyjet. I understand why people see it the perfect solution. In reality it isn't. What might be more helpful is to enforce the 10 days quarantine if you return from a tier 3 or 4 area. And as they are doing, asking people not to travel.

Wtf?

First option is a lot more enforceable than the second one.

First one could be managed a lot easier - at docks and airports.  Freight is freight and is deemed essential.

Second one is totally unenforceable.

Are you a DUP supporter?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 06:31:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 22, 2020, 05:25:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 04:25:28 PM
Taking the vaccine would only seem to basically reduce your chances of getting sick from the virus, as far as research goes they don't seem to have much impact on actually getting the virus and passing it on.

The research has not concluded at this point, but any research that does exist tends to show that virus transmission is reduced.

Research seems to point out that the vaccine merely stops people from getting I'll from the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 22, 2020, 07:29:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 06:31:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 22, 2020, 05:25:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 04:25:28 PM
Taking the vaccine would only seem to basically reduce your chances of getting sick from the virus, as far as research goes they don't seem to have much impact on actually getting the virus and passing it on.

The research has not concluded at this point, but any research that does exist tends to show that virus transmission is reduced.

Research seems to point out that the vaccine merely stops people from getting I'll from the virus.

In order to get a vaccine approved, you have to show that people get less ill. So the initial research concentrates on that point. The medical people believe that the vaccine almost certainly does reduce transmission, but they haven't signed off of this yet. So unless you have research that I haven't seen then it does show that the vaccine "merely" stop people from getting the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on December 22, 2020, 07:33:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 06:31:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 22, 2020, 05:25:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on December 22, 2020, 04:25:28 PM
Taking the vaccine would only seem to basically reduce your chances of getting sick from the virus, as far as research goes they don't seem to have much impact on actually getting the virus and passing it on.

The research has not concluded at this point, but any research that does exist tends to show that virus transmission is reduced.

Research seems to point out that the vaccine merely stops people from getting I'll from the virus.

Which research was that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on December 22, 2020, 07:41:13 PM
970 cases with 13 deaths in the 26 today. Halfarsed lockdown after Christmas.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on December 22, 2020, 07:59:51 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on December 22, 2020, 07:41:13 PM
970 cases with 13 deaths in the 26 today. Halfarsed lockdown after Christmas.

Questions need to be asked with the way these numbers are getting reported now.

Close to 300 of that 970 cases wasn't from positive swabs in the last 24 hours. No deaths yesterday and 13 today?


The 7-day average is 641 it was double that when the government decided to go into level 5 on October 21st. Now they are too concerned by the chaos that Boris created.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 22, 2020, 09:04:49 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 22, 2020, 09:55:07 AM
Quote from: Seaney on December 22, 2020, 09:41:12 AM
Whereas the lockdown open up lockdown has worked amazingly!

Good point Seaney

You semi-literate fool

Ohhh in a chat room I don't use proper punctuation, dry them kid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyroneman on December 22, 2020, 09:26:07 PM
Unfortunately had to go into 2 shops today.

Both times staff out working on the shop floor with masks hanging round their necks and no attempt at social distancing.

If retail can't even get their house in order with their own staff.   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on December 22, 2020, 11:13:24 PM
Can someone who has got a better handle on the figures for the UK talk me through something? Picked up on this on Twitter but the debate around it is childish and frustrating.

Apparently there were 36,000 positive cases in the UK yesterday, and 32,000 the previous day, and 5 figures each of the previous days, am I right to assume that there is no double counting in place, and that >75,000 UK citizens have tested positive this week?

Which means that more than 1 in 1,000 UK citizens have tested positive this week?

If so, roughly how many tests have been administered to produce this number of positives?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 22, 2020, 11:17:18 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 22, 2020, 11:13:24 PM
Can someone who has got a better handle on the figures for the UK talk me through something? Picked up on this on Twitter but the debate around it is childish and frustrating.

Apparently there were 36,000 positive cases in the UK yesterday, and 32,000 the previous day, and 5 figures each of the previous days, am I right to assume that there is no double counting in place, and that >75,000 UK citizens have tested positive this week?

Which means that more than 1 in 1,000 UK citizens have tested positive this week?

If so, roughly how many tests have been administered to produce this number of positives?

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 22, 2020, 11:21:25 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 22, 2020, 11:13:24 PM
Can someone who has got a better handle on the figures for the UK talk me through something? Picked up on this on Twitter but the debate around it is childish and frustrating.

Apparently there were 36,000 positive cases in the UK yesterday, and 32,000 the previous day, and 5 figures each of the previous days, am I right to assume that there is no double counting in place, and that >75,000 UK citizens have tested positive this week?

Which means that more than 1 in 1,000 UK citizens have tested positive this week?

If so, roughly how many tests have been administered to produce this number of positives?

423,675 tests  so 8.5% positive Testing has greatly ramped up in England especially since March.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/testing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on December 22, 2020, 11:23:21 PM
So it's about 1 in 300 people positive this week.

And about 1 in every 30 people (including children) have been tested this week?

—-

I must be properly cut off from what's happening in the world if there's those levels of people going for testing in a week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2020, 11:34:12 PM
Was heading into town tonight, passing over the M3 bridge and the Odyssey carpark was bunged with cars at the testing point!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 23, 2020, 12:18:11 AM
NI not at the forefront of testing volumes, which may not help things.
Finland and Denmark have tested everyone twice on average.

One of the points made is that health services now have to crank up the vaccination, although they are flat out treating people and doing things like testing. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 23, 2020, 07:41:58 AM
How do countries with that level of testing dictate that people get tested? Do they?

It's kind of a personal responsibility thing if you get tested is it not or what is being done over and above what is being done here to get those numbers?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 23, 2020, 09:16:38 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 22, 2020, 09:56:44 AM
Travel ban to NI is a tricky one. It's not about just stopping cars driving, it's flights and ferries. There will be costs involved. Who pays those costs? Because I can tell you now it won't be Stena Line or Easyjet. I understand why people see it the perfect solution. In reality it isn't. What might be more helpful is to enforce the 10 days quarantine if you return from a tier 3 or 4 area. And as they are doing, asking people not to travel.

Ferries could keep running, but the crew are not allowed to debark in NI and only trailers (no tractor units) are allowed to travel across. No passenger travel at all.

So hauliers would have to drop them off and pick them up from the port.

Of course its not ideal - but nothing about right now is ideal!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on December 23, 2020, 09:25:40 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 23, 2020, 09:16:38 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 22, 2020, 09:56:44 AM
Travel ban to NI is a tricky one. It's not about just stopping cars driving, it's flights and ferries. There will be costs involved. Who pays those costs? Because I can tell you now it won't be Stena Line or Easyjet. I understand why people see it the perfect solution. In reality it isn't. What might be more helpful is to enforce the 10 days quarantine if you return from a tier 3 or 4 area. And as they are doing, asking people not to travel.

Ferries could keep running, but the crew are not allowed to debark in NI and only trailers (no tractor units) are allowed to travel across. No passenger travel at all.

So hauliers would have to drop them off and pick them up from the port.

Of course its not ideal - but nothing about right now is ideal!

Sounds easy but in reality that'd be a nightmare. Agreed nothing is ideal. And I am not saying that passenger travel shouldn't be stopped, I am just pointing out that these are extremely difficult choices. What if you work in GB but live in NI should you be denied travel?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 23, 2020, 09:32:16 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 23, 2020, 09:25:40 AM
Sounds easy but in reality that'd be a nightmare.
I am just pointing out that these are extremely difficult choices.

Of course it'd be a nightmare - still by far the lesser of two evils (or 3 evils in this case).

Quote from: trailer on December 23, 2020, 09:25:40 AM
What if you work in GB but live in NI should you be denied travel?

Yep. Rent a roof over yer head in GB and stay there for the next while.

People need to get real about how to approach coronavirus.


Watered down bullsh!t is the reason we are where we are. China is going to see a GDP growth this year despite COVID - because they did it right and didn't try a diluted load of crap that was good for nothing.

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-usa-china-analysis-idUSKBN277066
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on December 23, 2020, 10:07:06 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 23, 2020, 09:25:40 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 23, 2020, 09:16:38 AM
Quote from: trailer on December 22, 2020, 09:56:44 AM
Travel ban to NI is a tricky one. It's not about just stopping cars driving, it's flights and ferries. There will be costs involved. Who pays those costs? Because I can tell you now it won't be Stena Line or Easyjet. I understand why people see it the perfect solution. In reality it isn't. What might be more helpful is to enforce the 10 days quarantine if you return from a tier 3 or 4 area. And as they are doing, asking people not to travel.

Ferries could keep running, but the crew are not allowed to debark in NI and only trailers (no tractor units) are allowed to travel across. No passenger travel at all.

So hauliers would have to drop them off and pick them up from the port.

Of course its not ideal - but nothing about right now is ideal!

Sounds easy but in reality that'd be a nightmare. Agreed nothing is ideal. And I am not saying that passenger travel shouldn't be stopped, I am just pointing out that these are extremely difficult choices. What if you work in GB but live in NI should you be denied travel?

Absolute nonsense.

Approx 2/3rds of RoRo freight across the Irish Sea is already done this way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 23, 2020, 02:08:10 PM
https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/Covid-19%20related%20deaths%20and%20pre-existing%20conditions%20in%20Northern%20Ireland%20March%20to%20November%202020-%20Press%20Release.pdf

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/publications/covid-19-related-deaths-and-pre-existing-conditions

Some very interesting stuff in here.

March to September 2020
 There were 902 Covid-19 related deaths registered in Northern Ireland between 1
st March and 30th September 2020;
 Covid-19 was the underlying cause of death for 807 deaths (89.5% of Covid-19 related deaths);
 There were no pre-existing conditions for 77 deaths (8.5% of Covid-19 related deaths);
 The average number of pre-existing conditions was 2.32;
 Dementia and Alzheimer's disease wasthe most common pre-existing condition, appearing in 327
deaths (36.3% of Covid-19 related deaths). The nextmost common pre-existing conditions were
hypertensive diseases (180) and diabetes (165 deaths); and
 The main pre-existing condition –the one most likely to cause death in the absence of Covid-19 – was
dementia and Alzheimer's disease (297), followed by ischaemic heart diseases (81) and chronic lower
respiratory diseases (67 deaths).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 23, 2020, 02:36:42 PM
787 cases today in da nart and a further 21 deaths
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 23, 2020, 02:42:50 PM
That's shocking. I think a full "curfew" is coming now according to the bbc. Not allowed out for a week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 23, 2020, 02:48:35 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 23, 2020, 02:42:50 PM
That's shocking. I think a full "curfew" is coming now according to the bbc. Not allowed out for a week.

Time for people to start kicking back
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 23, 2020, 02:49:45 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 23, 2020, 02:36:42 PM
787 cases today in da nart and a further 21 deaths

I dread to think of the numbers come early January. I'd say you could add a thousand to that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 23, 2020, 02:59:00 PM
What did you expect? People have been going mental since the last lockdown ended, what 14 days ago? As they knew another was a cert.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 23, 2020, 03:08:06 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 23, 2020, 02:59:00 PM
What did you expect? People have been going mental since the last lockdown ended, what 14 days ago? As they knew another was a cert.

Their actions ensured that it was a cert!
787 new cases in 6 counties from tests on 4,690 individuals is a high and growing positivity rate

Armagh, Craigavon and Banbridge seems to have lot of cases these last few days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 23, 2020, 03:10:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2020, 03:08:06 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 23, 2020, 02:59:00 PM
What did you expect? People have been going mental since the last lockdown ended, what 14 days ago? As they knew another was a cert.

Their actions ensured that it was a cert!
787 new cases in 6 counties from tests on 4,690 individuals is a high and growing positivity rate

And come the end of Jan or middle of Feb....or whenever it is they decide that we can actually live again. What do you think will happen?

This thing is not going away. It's time to look at a new approach.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 23, 2020, 03:11:39 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 23, 2020, 03:10:43 PM
This thing is not going away. It's time to look at a new approach.

What do you suggest?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 23, 2020, 03:33:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 23, 2020, 03:11:39 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 23, 2020, 03:10:43 PM
This thing is not going away. It's time to look at a new approach.

What do you suggest?

Ringfence the care home elderly. As per data - over a third of total deaths are dementia patients in a care home. Without being dismissive, they hardly know what is going on in the outside world or can be expected to protect themselves. Believe me, I've experienced Dementia in my own family - if I'm being honest, they are better off dead than going through that ordeal. Utterly heart-breaking condition and something personally I wouldn't be opposed to research into gene manipulation for this type of thing but that is neither here nor there.

That too, of those with pre existing conditions. The average on death is 2.32. The virus ruthlessly exposes the vulnerable. It's all care homes. Take away care home data here and you are left with not a whole pile after that to worry about....none more so than anything else that worried us, this time a year ago.

Stop double jobbing, forever. No more crap pay for carers that forces them to work X hours here, Y hours there that's been shown for what it is. Care Home owners don't care about their patients and if we are being totally honest, neither does society. That's why they are sent to care homes. I think we should acknowledge that. No point in any of us acting holier than thou, the world has clearly failed the weakest. Will anyone ever pay a price there or is this just an extension of survival of the fittest....as life has been since the dawn of time I suppose.

This opening, closing, opening, closing. Numbers up, numbers down nonsense cannot continue forever.

787 people is approx 0.04% of the N.I Population. Instead of asking us to shut down everything, ruin lives forever (which again, nobody cares about unless it's affecting them) to save the NHS - Why aren't we asking, why did it ever need saving for such a tiny, tiny fragment of the population.

I don't have all the answers, but this current way of existence cannot continue forever I'm sure we all agree?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 23, 2020, 03:39:12 PM
Brutal, but honest.. it has its good points though
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 23, 2020, 03:43:33 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 23, 2020, 03:33:43 PM
I don't have all the answers, but this current way of existence cannot continue forever I'm sure we all agree?

The categories you list above are being vaccinated as we speak. Relief is on the way, some patience is needed in the meantime.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 23, 2020, 03:51:15 PM
Absolutely armaghniac, but we must acknowledge that people are going to go wild again when we open up and numbers will rise as so.

Just by it's nature, this 6 week one is going to take a big, big toll on people. I hope this is the last one for us all. But I'm not confident. I think it would be foolish of us to think everyone is going to abide by the rules, but hopefully, if 90% do, we'll see 90% results.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 23, 2020, 03:55:54 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 23, 2020, 03:51:15 PM
Absolutely armaghniac, but we must acknowledge that people are going to go wild again when we open up and numbers will rise as so.

Just by it's nature, this 6 week one is going to take a big, big toll on people. I hope this is the last one for us all. But I'm not confident. I think it would be foolish of us to think everyone is going to abide by the rules, but hopefully, if 90% do, we'll see 90% results.

I acknowledge it, I don't agree with it. Just as roads have speed ramps on them which we all have bounce over because a few people cannot moderate their speed we have to have closures because a few people cannot behave responsibly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 23, 2020, 04:09:46 PM
I don't think enough time has passed since not being in lockdown here for numbers to have fully taken their toll from lockdown easing. However I suspect the one week "off" probably factors in.

Is there not a one week curfew now? That is worse than any lockdown. At present the six weeks doesn't include schools and nurseries however i suspect it is going to.

Obviously this is not an easy problem but the executive have made an absolute balls of it. That one week off was a disgrace and quite honestly shows stormont is not fit for purpose. (I imagine the numbers now are more from that week). Lay out a plan based on numbers. If we get to this we get x, y and s opened etc. Show some light at the end of the tunnel. If we regress this is what we do. Short term and long term planning. Not the balls we have. It's not the lockdown crippling businesses it's the way they're being implemented and the timeliness, or lack thereof, of decisions being made.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on December 23, 2020, 04:30:34 PM
Is it right that one dose is 91% compared to the 95% for 2 doses ?  Tony Blair was saying today to forget about the second dose and give more people one dose.  If the above figures are right it would make sense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 23, 2020, 04:56:26 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on December 23, 2020, 04:30:34 PM
Is it right that one dose is 91% compared to the 95% for 2 doses ?  Tony Blair was saying today to forget about the second dose and give more people one dose.  If the above figures are right it would make sense.

You don't even have to forget about it, you could give a second dose in a few months when all the vulnerable cases had received one dose.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on December 23, 2020, 05:11:19 PM
Would it still be effective if it's not given at the recommended 21 days ?

Also I would assume that the Oxford dose which isn't as effective would be given to those less at risk such as the under 75 and those at high risk would receive the more effective Pfizer vaccine.  I know supplies of it are limited but would they not cover the most vulnerable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 23, 2020, 06:15:48 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on December 23, 2020, 05:11:19 PM
Would it still be effective if it's not given at the recommended 21 days ?

Also I would assume that the Oxford dose which isn't as effective would be given to those less at risk such as the under 75 and those at high risk would receive the more effective Pfizer vaccine.  I know supplies of it are limited but would they not cover the most vulnerable.

The 21 days is probably the minimum time that you could give a second shot.
There is a trial apparently giving people one shot of Pfizer and one short of Oxford, this might give you 97% protection.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 23, 2020, 06:20:31 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 23, 2020, 03:51:15 PM
Absolutely armaghniac, but we must acknowledge that people are going to go wild again when we open up and numbers will rise as so.

Just by it's nature, this 6 week one is going to take a big, big toll on people. I hope this is the last one for us all. But I'm not confident. I think it would be foolish of us to think everyone is going to abide by the rules, but hopefully, if 90% do, we'll see 90% results.

90% is nowhere near enough. Even 2 or 3 people f**kin about could potentially have catastrophic consequences.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on December 23, 2020, 08:32:29 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2020, 06:20:31 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 23, 2020, 03:51:15 PM
Absolutely armaghniac, but we must acknowledge that people are going to go wild again when we open up and numbers will rise as so.

Just by it's nature, this 6 week one is going to take a big, big toll on people. I hope this is the last one for us all. But I'm not confident. I think it would be foolish of us to think everyone is going to abide by the rules, but hopefully, if 90% do, we'll see 90% results.

90% is nowhere near enough. Even 2 or 3 people f**kin about could potentially have catastrophic consequences.

https://mobile.twitter.com/GabrielScally/status/1341820715486593028
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on December 23, 2020, 09:20:15 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on December 23, 2020, 04:30:34 PM
Is it right that one dose is 91% compared to the 95% for 2 doses ?  Tony Blair was saying today to forget about the second dose and give more people one dose.  If the above figures are right it would make sense.
Was that Tony Blair MD an expert in epidemiology  or Tony Blair WMD?

The figure of 91%  and 95% are coming from a pharma corporation Pfizer which also happens to have a criminal record. They were first to come up with the 95% claim, so it could be expected the other drug companies are compelled not to deviate too far from that 95% figure, what would the shareholders say?
That 95% figure comes from a controlled trial, the real world will provide a different challenge of efficacy and the real world is a different challenge. Not only have you got an uncontrolled mass of people who are now trialing themselves for the vaccine (it is not yet a scientifically proven medical treatment)  but the vaccine will have to be able deal with the vagaries of nature, aka evolution - a natural adaption alteration of the virus structure. If this vaccine follows the record of previous  flu type virus vaccines , that claimed 95% efficacy in the real world will probably drop to claimed levels of  60 -70% efficacy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on December 23, 2020, 10:05:33 PM
No Tony Blair prime minister.  Think is a cousin of those boys you mentioned though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 23, 2020, 10:07:42 PM
Don't you mean big pharma corporation ms. You have to get the lingo right for the optics ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 23, 2020, 10:42:02 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 23, 2020, 09:20:15 PMThe figure of 91%  and 95% are coming from a pharma corporation Pfizer which also happens to have a criminal record.

So are you saying the 91% is wrong, the 95% is wrong, or both are wrong?

... and what does it say about those independent parties involve in carrying out the tests and certifying the results?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on December 23, 2020, 10:49:04 PM
I don't think he really knows what he is saying so what chance have the rest of us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on December 23, 2020, 11:29:35 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on December 23, 2020, 04:30:34 PM
Is it right that one dose is 91% compared to the 95% for 2 doses ?  Tony Blair was saying today to forget about the second dose and give more people one dose.  If the above figures are right it would make sense.

91% and 95% what?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 24, 2020, 12:02:16 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 23, 2020, 06:20:31 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 23, 2020, 03:51:15 PM
Absolutely armaghniac, but we must acknowledge that people are going to go wild again when we open up and numbers will rise as so.

Just by it's nature, this 6 week one is going to take a big, big toll on people. I hope this is the last one for us all. But I'm not confident. I think it would be foolish of us to think everyone is going to abide by the rules, but hopefully, if 90% do, we'll see 90% results.

90% is nowhere near enough. Even 2 or 3 people f**kin about could potentially have catastrophic consequences.

You would have to be hugely naive if you think full compliance is likely though. Look at the tweets directed at Robin Swann over past few days for example. On that area I have to say the upcoming "curfew" being implemented has seen a lot of spirit lost, people don't like to be punished, especially when the fact is the very high 90 odd percent of people are not contributors whatsoever to this virus. That's what the feeling really is now.

There is no doubt there'll be NYE parties etc. The police will have powers to stop those, but it remains to be seen if the police have a leg to stand on if you are outside after 2000 on boxing day. I would imagine there isn't enough time to have that fully legislated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 24, 2020, 12:41:28 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 23, 2020, 10:42:02 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 23, 2020, 09:20:15 PMThe figure of 91%  and 95% are coming from a pharma corporation Pfizer which also happens to have a criminal record.

So are you saying the 91% is wrong, the 95% is wrong, or both are wrong?

... and what does it say about those independent parties involve in carrying out the tests and certifying the results?
All getting kickbacks or didnt you know?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on December 24, 2020, 10:17:36 AM
If big pharma is Phizer and AstraZenca? What is small pharma? Is it some wee lad mixing gear in Belfast or Dublin?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 24, 2020, 04:22:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 24, 2020, 10:17:36 AM
If big pharma is Phizer and AstraZenca? What is small pharma? Is it some wee lad mixing gear in Belfast or Dublin?

Small pharma is performed in sheds along the Armagh/Louth/Monaghan border   ;) ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 24, 2020, 04:30:03 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 24, 2020, 04:22:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 24, 2020, 10:17:36 AM
If big pharma is Phizer and AstraZenca? What is small pharma? Is it some wee lad mixing gear in Belfast or Dublin?

Small pharma is performed in sheds along the Armagh/Louth/Monaghan border   ;) ;D

Very profitable too I hear
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 24, 2020, 06:02:47 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 23, 2020, 09:20:15 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on December 23, 2020, 04:30:34 PM
Is it right that one dose is 91% compared to the 95% for 2 doses ?  Tony Blair was saying today to forget about the second dose and give more people one dose.  If the above figures are right it would make sense.
Was that Tony Blair MD an expert in epidemiology  or Tony Blair WMD?

The figure of 91%  and 95% are coming from a pharma corporation Pfizer which also happens to have a criminal record. They were first to come up with the 95% claim, so it could be expected the other drug companies are compelled not to deviate too far from that 95% figure, what would the shareholders say?
That 95% figure comes from a controlled trial, the real world will provide a different challenge of efficacy and the real world is a different challenge. Not only have you got an uncontrolled mass of people who are now trialing themselves for the vaccine (it is not yet a scientifically proven medical treatment)  but the vaccine will have to be able deal with the vagaries of nature, aka evolution - a natural adaption alteration of the virus structure. If this vaccine follows the record of previous  flu type virus vaccines , that claimed 95% efficacy in the real world will probably drop to claimed levels of  60 -70% efficacy.

Never doubted my mate. ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on December 26, 2020, 11:07:49 AM
This Northern Ireland Curfew seems to be a load of nonsense i bet there will be shops open tonight after 8pm by default they should be closed and how can they enforce it if they wont be patrolling housing estates.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2020, 11:25:48 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 26, 2020, 11:07:49 AM
This Northern Ireland Curfew seems to be a load of nonsense i bet there will be shops open tonight after 8pm by default they should be closed and how can they enforce it if they wont be patrolling housing estates.

They are looking to open on Friday nights only.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 01:34:22 PM
They'd be fined. Surely essential shops would be allowed to open anyway?

(The definition of essential seems pretty loose)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on December 26, 2020, 06:10:40 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 01:34:22 PM
They'd be fined. Surely essential shops would be allowed to open anyway?

(The definition of essential seems pretty loose)

It's a bit more strict this time though
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on December 26, 2020, 07:41:01 PM
Cases are flying up again  in the republic. 1296 more cases today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on December 26, 2020, 07:56:38 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on December 26, 2020, 07:41:01 PM
Cases are flying up again  in the republic. 1296 more cases today.

Iast Sunday I expected we'd get 5000+ cases this week and with a day to go we are close to 6000 weekly case now.

Next week will likely have days of 2k or more cases. It will probably be mid January at the earliest before we see weekly numbers decrease.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 07:58:12 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 26, 2020, 06:10:40 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 01:34:22 PM
They'd be fined. Surely essential shops would be allowed to open anyway?

(The definition of essential seems pretty loose)

It's a bit more strict this time though

Hopefully.

What is the theory on the cases in the south going up? Relaxing lockdown?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on December 26, 2020, 08:12:06 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 07:58:12 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 26, 2020, 06:10:40 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 01:34:22 PM
They'd be fined. Surely essential shops would be allowed to open anyway?

(The definition of essential seems pretty loose)

It's a bit more strict this time though

Hopefully.

What is the theory on the cases in the south going up? Relaxing lockdown?
Relaxing restrictions at the busiest time of the year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on December 26, 2020, 08:16:17 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 26, 2020, 08:12:06 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 07:58:12 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 26, 2020, 06:10:40 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 01:34:22 PM
They'd be fined. Surely essential shops would be allowed to open anyway?

(The definition of essential seems pretty loose)

It's a bit more strict this time though

Hopefully.

What is the theory on the cases in the south going up? Relaxing lockdown?
Relaxing restrictions at the busiest time of the year.

But it's gone up very quickly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2020, 08:35:29 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 07:58:12 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 26, 2020, 06:10:40 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 01:34:22 PM
They'd be fined. Surely essential shops would be allowed to open anyway?

(The definition of essential seems pretty loose)

It's a bit more strict this time though

Hopefully.

What is the theory on the cases in the south going up? Relaxing lockdown?

What's the numbers in the north?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on December 26, 2020, 08:42:39 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 26, 2020, 08:16:17 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 26, 2020, 08:12:06 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 07:58:12 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 26, 2020, 06:10:40 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 01:34:22 PM
They'd be fined. Surely essential shops would be allowed to open anyway?

(The definition of essential seems pretty loose)

It's a bit more strict this time though

Hopefully.

What is the theory on the cases in the south going up? Relaxing lockdown?
Relaxing restrictions at the busiest time of the year.

But it's gone up very quickly.
Yes loads of cluster outbreaks now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 08:44:30 PM
Not updated. No idea what is happening with test centres - would they be open? I would guess so and the dashboard people just not working. Hard to find them on news. Last I saw was 787. Would be surprised were it not more.

Like Marty says though the jump in the south seems very quick - how long have restrictions been relaxed?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 26, 2020, 08:52:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2020, 08:35:29 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 07:58:12 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 26, 2020, 06:10:40 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 01:34:22 PM
They'd be fined. Surely essential shops would be allowed to open anyway?

(The definition of essential seems pretty loose)

It's a bit more strict this time though

Hopefully.

What is the theory on the cases in the south going up? Relaxing lockdown?

What's the numbers in the north?

Think I read in the Tele 998 over the past 2 days
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 26, 2020, 08:59:45 PM
Yep 998 in 48 hours.
Our restrictions relaxed on 1st and 4th December.
3 weeks later......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 09:05:35 PM
Ah that about tallies then.

I would expect it's more than 998 up here. There'd be less testing or ability to report it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2020, 09:10:12 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 09:05:35 PM
Ah that about tallies then.

I would expect it's more than 998 up here. There'd be less testing or ability to report it.

Why are we not just continuing with this current lockdown for 6 weeks?

What's the difference?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 09:16:25 PM
What current lockdown... sure it has all been relaxed for Christmas.

The previous one wasn't working. Differences of the top of my head - smaller things like click and collect not allowed, curfew in place, in all likelihood stricter policing, I have lost track of the last restrictions but no restaurants at all, no gyms, no hairdressers. There may be a different definition of what businesses are necessary to open. I can't run with people who don't live with me. Sports training in groups for non elite banned.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2020, 09:47:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 09:16:25 PM
What current lockdown... sure it has all been relaxed for Christmas.

The previous one wasn't working. Differences of the top of my head - smaller things like click and collect not allowed, curfew in place, in all likelihood stricter policing, I have lost track of the last restrictions but no restaurants at all, no gyms, no hairdressers. There may be a different definition of what businesses are necessary to open. I can't run with people who don't live with me. Sports training in groups for non elite banned.

Well the one where we are curfew'd after 8, house bans, bubbles limited, working from home if possible, sports stopped, 1 hour exercise, and essential services only (a proper enforced list required)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 10:00:57 PM
Schools and universities are still on. We're allowed out of the house more than once a day. It's not quite as stringent. There are differences.  I am not sure on "elite " sports. Are they still allowed?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 26, 2020, 10:21:14 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 26, 2020, 10:00:57 PM
Schools and universities are still on. We're allowed out of the house more than once a day. It's not quite as stringent. There are differences.  I am not sure on "elite " sports. Are they still allowed?

I'm lost on it...

I'll be in work, but the town will be a ghost town
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on December 27, 2020, 07:18:22 PM
Weekly update for the ROI.

Cases 6622 (3241 more than last week and the highest weekly number since 7194 at the end of October)

Reported Deaths 46 (12 more than last week)

In hospital 324 (91 more than last week)
In ICU 26 (3 less than a week ago)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 27, 2020, 08:04:22 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 27, 2020, 07:18:22 PM
Weekly update for the ROI.

Cases 6622 (3241 more than last week and the highest weekly number since 7194 at the end of October)

Reported Deaths 46 (12 more than last week)

In hospital 324 (91 more than last week)
In ICU 26 (3 less than a week ago)

Doubling in a week, we can't stick that.
Hospital numbers will double after 5 days or so more, and ICU a bit after that.
Still the timing for Xmas wasn't bad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: FermGael on December 28, 2020, 02:36:05 PM
20 further deaths and 1634 new cases in the North over the last 48 hours.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 28, 2020, 02:48:53 PM
Feck. That's not good.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 28, 2020, 03:22:12 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 28, 2020, 02:48:53 PM
Feck. That's not good.

Nope, it's not. But nobody cares anymore, so it's hardly surprising numbers are high.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 28, 2020, 03:36:59 PM
Big numbers
Nobody even bothering to even hide the house parties anymore
Back in April none of this was going on
Everyone has given up on the restrictions
Only way out now is the vaccine
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Minder on December 28, 2020, 03:58:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 28, 2020, 03:36:59 PM
Big numbers
Nobody even bothering to even hide the house parties anymore
Back in April none of this was going on
Everyone has given up on the restrictions
Only way out now is the vaccine

That's been obvious for a while, people think restrictions apply to everyone else but them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 28, 2020, 04:11:53 PM
Quote from: Minder on December 28, 2020, 03:58:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 28, 2020, 03:36:59 PM
Big numbers
Nobody even bothering to even hide the house parties anymore
Back in April none of this was going on
Everyone has given up on the restrictions
Only way out now is the vaccine

That's been obvious for a while, people think restrictions apply to everyone else but them

I know, I work in the health sector. The decisions I've seen work colleagues make as regards isolating, congregating etc  in the last wee while is absolutely dumbfounding. Entitlement bursting out of them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 28, 2020, 04:57:00 PM
What would have been the way out if no vaccine was available for the foreseeable future?
The way things are going is hardly sustainable
How many JOG are we anticipating that we can vaccine per week here in the north?
By the sounds of things the north have gotten off to a decent start. Although no figures since this day last week. Upto 30000 done already
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 28, 2020, 05:17:18 PM
Proper track and trace would have been the way out but no real effort seems to have been made.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Minder on December 28, 2020, 05:37:48 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 28, 2020, 05:17:18 PM
Proper track and trace would have been the way out but no real effort seems to have been made.

And for those that are told to isolate to actually isolate
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 28, 2020, 05:42:52 PM
Individuals not sticking to rules is only a small part of the problem though. It runs way deeper. Sure Christmas shopping coming up to Christmas Day in a place like Tesco's was no different to it ever was.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 28, 2020, 05:47:31 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 28, 2020, 04:57:00 PM
What would have been the way out if no vaccine was available for the foreseeable future?
The way things are going is hardly sustainable
How many JOG are we anticipating that we can vaccine per week here in the north?
By the sounds of things the north have gotten off to a decent start. Although no figures since this day last week. Upto 30000 done already
Thank god there is. Otherwise we would be looked at extended period of lockdown and reopening. We had no alternatives. The quicker the vaccine can be rolled out the better.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 28, 2020, 05:53:15 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 28, 2020, 05:47:31 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 28, 2020, 04:57:00 PM
What would have been the way out if no vaccine was available for the foreseeable future?
The way things are going is hardly sustainable
How many JOG are we anticipating that we can vaccine per week here in the north?
By the sounds of things the north have gotten off to a decent start. Although no figures since this day last week. Upto 30000 done already
Thank god there is. Otherwise we would be looked at extended period of lockdown and reopening. We had no alternatives. The quicker the vaccine can be rolled out the better.

Will only work if people take the vaccine when it's available to them...

Cue......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 28, 2020, 06:05:11 PM
I have heard of nhs ones not taking it. I don't know how many but didn't seem a small amount. I've a friend who was in an area where he wasn't eligible (though by the sound of it should have been) but is now able to get it s there isn't as high demand as they envisaged. No idea on numbers and saw something on Twitter but it seemed fairly agenda driven so didn't red it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 28, 2020, 06:06:42 PM
I haven't heard of anyone over the age of 70 say they wouldn't take it
I have heard a few younger ones (30-50) saying no they won't take it
What if you have to show you have taken the vaccine to get on say a holiday?
I'm like true blue the quicker it is rolled out the better
With approximately 89% of all hospitalised people over 65 it would be hard not to lift all restrictions then. And even when all care homes and over 80s done it will be hard not to lift a lot of restrictions.
Pubs and restaurants will be last
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 28, 2020, 06:44:46 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 28, 2020, 06:05:11 PM
I have heard of nhs ones not taking it. I don't know how many but didn't seem a small amount. I've a friend who was in an area where he wasn't eligible (though by the sound of it should have been) but is now able to get it s there isn't as high demand as they envisaged. No idea on numbers and saw something on Twitter but it seemed fairly agenda driven so didn't red it.

A friend of mind who's head nurse in one of the hospitals didn't take it, didn't want to feel unwell over Xmas!

Is there sickness side effects to deal with at the start like the flu jab can have?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 28, 2020, 07:07:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 28, 2020, 06:44:46 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 28, 2020, 06:05:11 PM
I have heard of nhs ones not taking it. I don't know how many but didn't seem a small amount. I've a friend who was in an area where he wasn't eligible (though by the sound of it should have been) but is now able to get it s there isn't as high demand as they envisaged. No idea on numbers and saw something on Twitter but it seemed fairly agenda driven so didn't red it.

A friend of mind who's head nurse in one of the hospitals didn't take it, didn't want to feel unwell over Xmas!

Is there sickness side effects to deal with at the start like the flu jab can have?

High temperature for a day or two from what I heard. It'll only take Spain or Portugal to say noones getting in without proof of having one. Then there'll be a Q to the moon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on December 28, 2020, 07:17:11 PM
Why is the vaccine in the 26 counties not being rolled out a lot quicker?

Is it just me or does it seem slow enough?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 28, 2020, 07:17:53 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 28, 2020, 04:57:00 PM
What would have been the way out if no vaccine was available for the foreseeable future?
The way things are going is hardly sustainable
How many JOG are we anticipating that we can vaccine per week here in the north?
By the sounds of things the north have gotten off to a decent start. Although no figures since this day last week. Upto 30000 done already

I honestly don't know numbers wise Smurfy. A first email went around weeks ago asking for volunteers (qualified professionals) to vaccinate folk. I believe there was a a really good uptake. We'll probably know in the next week or so. We also haven't got our confirmed date yet but hearing between the 4th Jan and mid Jan. I can almost taste Benidorm men!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 28, 2020, 07:37:25 PM
More will get the vaccine once they state that you'll not be able to go abroad on holiday unless you've had the vaccine. They'll also introduce things like you can't stay in hotels, work in certain jobs or maybe even send your kids to school unless vaccinated.

They won't make the vaccine compulsory, but their rules will make it very difficult for you to have any sort of normal life (assuming we go back to normal life), so you'll more or less have to get it in the end.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 28, 2020, 07:38:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 28, 2020, 07:37:25 PM
More will get the vaccine once they state that you'll not be able to go abroad on holiday unless you've had the vaccine. They'll also introduce things like you can't stay in hotels, work in certain jobs or maybe even send your kids to school unless vaccinated.

They won't make the vaccine compulsory, but their rules will make it very difficult for you to have any sort of normal life (assuming we go back to normal life).

There will be some who'll go against it, claiming discrimination
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 28, 2020, 07:45:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 28, 2020, 07:38:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 28, 2020, 07:37:25 PM
More will get the vaccine once they state that you'll not be able to go abroad on holiday unless you've had the vaccine. They'll also introduce things like you can't stay in hotels, work in certain jobs or maybe even send your kids to school unless vaccinated.

They won't make the vaccine compulsory, but their rules will make it very difficult for you to have any sort of normal life (assuming we go back to normal life).

There will be some who'll go against it, claiming discrimination

Maybe, but get the vaccine or you can't work as a teacher/doctor/fitness instructor/factory worker or go to school/university etc...

What choice is there, if those are the options?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 28, 2020, 08:08:36 PM
JOG are you down to administrate vaccines? Well done if so
I would say the simple you can't travel to say Portugal Spain or Italy one and the uptake in younger people will go up to almost 90%
Not being able to go abroad unless you have the vaccine shoukd make sure uptake is good
Now I'm just reading reports and there should not be any issues with the vaccine
All over 80s that get vaccinated things will open up?
All over 65S and you would expect everywhere to open up ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 28, 2020, 08:39:15 PM
I think there are a few stings in this yet before vaccines come into play. London currently in a very bad position with it. Normally we would be a bit behind there but hopefully lockdowns will mitigate that. Hopefully.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 28, 2020, 08:54:42 PM
I wonder would a big freeze like in late 2010 have a significant impact in cases. With people not able to get out and about (or less likely to want to) with the roads dangerous , schools cancelled etc...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 28, 2020, 09:11:30 PM
Agree I do think the worst is yet to come
I think the first 3 weeks of January is where we will see the highest number of cases and deaths unfortunately
The Christmas gatherings and parties will show in next few days
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on December 28, 2020, 09:40:15 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 28, 2020, 09:11:30 PM
Agree I do think the worst is yet to come
I think the first 3 weeks of January is where we will see the highest number of cases and deaths unfortunately
The Christmas gatherings and parties will show in next few days

We'll have highest reported cases certainly. The spring has had the highest infection rate but didn't show in the data as we didn't test as much as now.  I'd hope we don't get close to the spring death count on this island this January.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 29, 2020, 01:08:45 PM
I would expect that we will see bigger numbers today both in the north and south
People now need to take lockdown seriously for the next 6 weeks and finally come out of these lockdowns
A combination of maybe getting the numbers down to say 3/400 and 300000 vaccinations would be some going
Works out something close to 5000 a day
Possible???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 29, 2020, 01:38:12 PM
Read an article this morn that says the UK need to do 2 million vaccinations per week to keep ahead of the wave. They'll need to set up field hospitals and get the Brits to work around the clock to hit this number. Based on their organisation of PPE deployment and track and trace they'll not get near it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 02:05:54 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 29, 2020, 01:38:12 PM
Read an article this morn that says the UK need to do 2 million vaccinations per week to keep ahead of the wave. They'll need to set up field hospitals and get the Brits to work around the clock to hit this number. Based on their organisation of PPE deployment and track and trace they'll not get near it.

How many got flu vaccines this year? Let's say 40% of people, over 10 weeks or so, that would be this number.
Now the Covid needs two jabs, and Pfizer and Moderna jabs need complex handling, but the Oxford jab is probably not any more complex to deliver than the flu jab and every nurse and pharmacist can do it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 29, 2020, 02:14:34 PM
More restrictions coming?
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/emergency-cabinet-meeting-called-over-covid-19-amid-alarm-at-rise-in-hospital-admissions-39910120.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: FermGael on December 29, 2020, 02:23:19 PM
1556 positive cases in the last 24 hours in the north with 14 further deaths
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:26:24 PM
The notion of making the vaccine compulsory for your job will be extremely hard to enforce. That is a significant change to a contract of employment and you can't simply make a unilateral change and enforce it on someone. If you make it as a pre-requisite for people applying for a job it will leave companies so open to potential claims.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on December 29, 2020, 02:32:41 PM
Quote from: FermGael on December 29, 2020, 02:23:19 PM
1556 positive cases in the last 24 hours in the north with 14 further deaths

In what settings? What is driving these numbers? Public have a right to know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:26:24 PM
The notion of making the vaccine compulsory for your job will be extremely hard to enforce. That is a significant change to a contract of employment and you can't simply make a unilateral change and enforce it on someone. If you make it as a pre-requisite for people applying for a job it will leave companies so open to potential claims.

The government need to change the law. Companies must not employ people who are a health risk to their customers and they must have the legal rights to do so. Make companies responsible for any infection from unvaccinated people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 29, 2020, 02:40:27 PM
It has to be house gatherings?
Retail was open for a very long time and no where near these numbers. Retail Pubs Restaurants Gyms and the lot and no where near these numbers
The bit I don't get is obviously indoors is the big big place to catch this.
Why not allow golf outdoors sports outdoor walks outdoor everything.
I get the mixing bit but surely if people had other things to do they maybe would not be that inclined to ask people around to the house
Even gyms which is easily policed and gets people out of the house
They need to get a better system going
No schools open in 10 days can't blame them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 29, 2020, 02:48:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:26:24 PM
The notion of making the vaccine compulsory for your job will be extremely hard to enforce. That is a significant change to a contract of employment and you can't simply make a unilateral change and enforce it on someone. If you make it as a pre-requisite for people applying for a job it will leave companies so open to potential claims.

The government need to change the law. Companies must not employ people who are a health risk to their customers and they must have the legal rights to do so. Make companies responsible for any infection from unvaccinated people.

But how do people even know where/who they get it from? Just because you might work in a shop/office with someone who isn't vaccinated, if you get the virus, doesn't mean they spread it to you.

And how would you police everyone who enters a shop? If someone isn't vaccinated, how would shops know? And are shops going to ask for evidence every time someone goes out for a pint of milk?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:56:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 29, 2020, 02:48:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:26:24 PM
The notion of making the vaccine compulsory for your job will be extremely hard to enforce. That is a significant change to a contract of employment and you can't simply make a unilateral change and enforce it on someone. If you make it as a pre-requisite for people applying for a job it will leave companies so open to potential claims.

The government need to change the law. Companies must not employ people who are a health risk to their customers and they must have the legal rights to do so. Make companies responsible for any infection from unvaccinated people.

But how do people even know where/who they get it from? Just because you might work in a shop/office with someone who isn't vaccinated, if you get the virus, doesn't mean they spread it to you.

And how would you police everyone who enters a shop? If someone isn't vaccinated, how would shops know? And are shops going to ask for evidence every time someone goes out for a pint of milk?

Impossible to police. The Government cannot simply implement a law which will override the rights of millions of workers and their personal rights.  The vaccination is an invasion of a person, you cannot make it compulsory for people to have a needle stuck in them.  That is a huge breach of civil liberties, whether it is beneficial or not, and the Government cannot do that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2020, 03:11:56 PM
Was the polio vaccination a mandatory process?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on December 29, 2020, 03:13:03 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:56:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 29, 2020, 02:48:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:26:24 PM
The notion of making the vaccine compulsory for your job will be extremely hard to enforce. That is a significant change to a contract of employment and you can't simply make a unilateral change and enforce it on someone. If you make it as a pre-requisite for people applying for a job it will leave companies so open to potential claims.

The government need to change the law. Companies must not employ people who are a health risk to their customers and they must have the legal rights to do so. Make companies responsible for any infection from unvaccinated people.

But how do people even know where/who they get it from? Just because you might work in a shop/office with someone who isn't vaccinated, if you get the virus, doesn't mean they spread it to you.

And how would you police everyone who enters a shop? If someone isn't vaccinated, how would shops know? And are shops going to ask for evidence every time someone goes out for a pint of milk?

Impossible to police. The Government cannot simply implement a law which will override the rights of millions of workers and their personal rights.  The vaccination is an invasion of a person, you cannot make it compulsory for people to have a needle stuck in them.  That is a huge breach of civil liberties, whether it is beneficial or not, and the Government cannot do that.

Travel will probably be the main stick. Lots of countries require vaccinations before you can travel and I'd imagine trying to get a Visa to countries that have had strict lockdowns without the vaccine would be nigh on impossible. I'm thinking South Korea, Australia, NZ. Some airlines might also ask for proof as well. Was it Quantas who mentioned this? This might only be a self certification similar to all the No's you tick on a US visa but with heavy punishments if you're found out to have lied.
There'll be lots of unintelligent people who won't get the vaccine and unfortunately there isn't a lot you can do only try and educate them as best as possible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2020, 03:21:48 PM
Already being done in some parts, in-laws were in Tenerife they had to be tested and certificates shown, I'd imagine the vaccine will be same
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 03:59:46 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:56:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 29, 2020, 02:48:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:26:24 PM
The notion of making the vaccine compulsory for your job will be extremely hard to enforce. That is a significant change to a contract of employment and you can't simply make a unilateral change and enforce it on someone. If you make it as a pre-requisite for people applying for a job it will leave companies so open to potential claims.

The government need to change the law. Companies must not employ people who are a health risk to their customers and they must have the legal rights to do so. Make companies responsible for any infection from unvaccinated people.

But how do people even know where/who they get it from? Just because you might work in a shop/office with someone who isn't vaccinated, if you get the virus, doesn't mean they spread it to you.

And how would you police everyone who enters a shop? If someone isn't vaccinated, how would shops know? And are shops going to ask for evidence every time someone goes out for a pint of milk?

Impossible to police. The Government cannot simply implement a law which will override the rights of millions of workers and their personal rights.  The vaccination is an invasion of a person, you cannot make it compulsory for people to have a needle stuck in them.  That is a huge breach of civil liberties, whether it is beneficial or not, and the Government cannot do that.

People don't have to have it, but they should be required to work in public facing jobs. Being given Covid by some plonker making a statement about vaccines is an invasion of the person and having such a person working anywhere would be contributory negligence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 04:03:06 PM
1,566 cases in the 6 counties, Derry and Strabane almost doubled in the last week compared to previous week.
26 counties will be around 2000, still only half the North but a big increase on 3 weeks ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 04:05:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 03:59:46 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:56:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 29, 2020, 02:48:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:26:24 PM
The notion of making the vaccine compulsory for your job will be extremely hard to enforce. That is a significant change to a contract of employment and you can't simply make a unilateral change and enforce it on someone. If you make it as a pre-requisite for people applying for a job it will leave companies so open to potential claims.

The government need to change the law. Companies must not employ people who are a health risk to their customers and they must have the legal rights to do so. Make companies responsible for any infection from unvaccinated people.

But how do people even know where/who they get it from? Just because you might work in a shop/office with someone who isn't vaccinated, if you get the virus, doesn't mean they spread it to you.

And how would you police everyone who enters a shop? If someone isn't vaccinated, how would shops know? And are shops going to ask for evidence every time someone goes out for a pint of milk?

Impossible to police. The Government cannot simply implement a law which will override the rights of millions of workers and their personal rights.  The vaccination is an invasion of a person, you cannot make it compulsory for people to have a needle stuck in them.  That is a huge breach of civil liberties, whether it is beneficial or not, and the Government cannot do that.

People don't have to have it, but they should be required to work in public facing jobs. Being given Covid by some plonker making a statement about vaccines is an invasion of the person and having such a person working anywhere would be contributory negligence.

I don't disagree with your logic but I'm telling you there will be widespread resistance the minute you make it compulsory
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 29, 2020, 04:17:01 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:56:56 PMImpossible to police. The Government cannot simply implement a law which will override the rights of millions of workers and their personal rights.  The vaccination is an invasion of a person, you cannot make it compulsory for people to have a needle stuck in them.  That is a huge breach of civil liberties, whether it is beneficial or not, and the Government cannot do that.

With respect - f**k the rights of the stupid to be stupid if it endangers others.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 29, 2020, 04:18:35 PM
Agree that I don't think it should be compulsory
But the minute places ask for a vaccine card to travel to their country you will get the plonkers who make a big deal that they will not take it jump at taking it
Putting down a big statement by not taking it
Each to there own and all that but why not
Surely the pros outweigh the cons heavely
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 04:35:51 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 04:05:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 03:59:46 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:56:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 29, 2020, 02:48:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:26:24 PM
The notion of making the vaccine compulsory for your job will be extremely hard to enforce. That is a significant change to a contract of employment and you can't simply make a unilateral change and enforce it on someone. If you make it as a pre-requisite for people applying for a job it will leave companies so open to potential claims.

The government need to change the law. Companies must not employ people who are a health risk to their customers and they must have the legal rights to do so. Make companies responsible for any infection from unvaccinated people.

But how do people even know where/who they get it from? Just because you might work in a shop/office with someone who isn't vaccinated, if you get the virus, doesn't mean they spread it to you.

And how would you police everyone who enters a shop? If someone isn't vaccinated, how would shops know? And are shops going to ask for evidence every time someone goes out for a pint of milk?

Impossible to police. The Government cannot simply implement a law which will override the rights of millions of workers and their personal rights.  The vaccination is an invasion of a person, you cannot make it compulsory for people to have a needle stuck in them.  That is a huge breach of civil liberties, whether it is beneficial or not, and the Government cannot do that.

People don't have to have it, but they should be required to work in public facing jobs. Being given Covid by some plonker making a statement about vaccines is an invasion of the person and having such a person working anywhere would be contributory negligence.

I don't disagree with your logic but I'm telling you there will be widespread resistance the minute you make it compulsory

Things are compulsory, even in the most liberal employer you are expected to wear clothes, for example.

However, if they require people to have vaccines for air travel then that should do the trick.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 04:43:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:26:24 PM
The notion of making the vaccine compulsory for your job will be extremely hard to enforce. That is a significant change to a contract of employment and you can't simply make a unilateral change and enforce it on someone. If you make it as a pre-requisite for people applying for a job it will leave companies so open to potential claims.

The government need to change the law. Companies must not employ people who are a health risk to their customers and they must have the legal rights to do so. Make companies responsible for any infection from unvaccinated people.

Yawn the vaccination doesn't stop the spread, the whole country could be vaccinated and you could still get it, maybe you should take greater personal responsibility.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 29, 2020, 04:56:18 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 29, 2020, 04:17:01 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:56:56 PMImpossible to police. The Government cannot simply implement a law which will override the rights of millions of workers and their personal rights.  The vaccination is an invasion of a person, you cannot make it compulsory for people to have a needle stuck in them.  That is a huge breach of civil liberties, whether it is beneficial or not, and the Government cannot do that.

With respect - f**k the rights of the stupid to be stupid if it endangers others.

There's thousands of stupid f**kers behaving recklessly and not following any guidelines, for months now, endangering me. What about my rights?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 29, 2020, 04:57:47 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 04:43:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:26:24 PM
The notion of making the vaccine compulsory for your job will be extremely hard to enforce. That is a significant change to a contract of employment and you can't simply make a unilateral change and enforce it on someone. If you make it as a pre-requisite for people applying for a job it will leave companies so open to potential claims.

The government need to change the law. Companies must not employ people who are a health risk to their customers and they must have the legal rights to do so. Make companies responsible for any infection from unvaccinated people.

Yawn the vaccination doesn't stop the spread, the whole country could be vaccinated and you could still get it, maybe you should take greater personal responsibility.
What's the evidence for your assertion?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 04:59:16 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 29, 2020, 04:17:01 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:56:56 PMImpossible to police. The Government cannot simply implement a law which will override the rights of millions of workers and their personal rights.  The vaccination is an invasion of a person, you cannot make it compulsory for people to have a needle stuck in them.  That is a huge breach of civil liberties, whether it is beneficial or not, and the Government cannot do that.

With respect - f**k the rights of the stupid to be stupid if it endangers others.

BCB1 is spot on here by the way.

What you are asking for here Radio is essentially people to be injected, (potentially) against their own free will. People know there is a 98% survival rate for this thing (if you even know you get it).

The North Koreans wouldn't even do that to their own people. I understand your passion on this subject but you are asking for Orwell's Dystopian nightmare here and something that simply must not be allowed to happen.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 05:01:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 29, 2020, 04:56:18 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 29, 2020, 04:17:01 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:56:56 PMImpossible to police. The Government cannot simply implement a law which will override the rights of millions of workers and their personal rights.  The vaccination is an invasion of a person, you cannot make it compulsory for people to have a needle stuck in them.  That is a huge breach of civil liberties, whether it is beneficial or not, and the Government cannot do that.

With respect - f**k the rights of the stupid to be stupid if it endangers others.

There's thousands of stupid f**kers behaving recklessly and not following any guidelines, for months now, endangering me. What about my rights?

Stay in, stay safe, get vaccinated when you can. Lockdown have taken the rights away from families, the disabled, the vulnerable, the abused, cancer suffers, bereavement, mental health what about their rights, so much for we are all in it together, it's all me me me here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 05:02:37 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 04:59:16 PM
What you are asking for here Radio is essentially people to be injected, (potentially) against their own free will. People know there is a 98% survival rate for this thing (if you even know you get it).

What we are requiring is that people present themselves for work in a manner which is not dangerous to others.
Perhaps they could be allowed a Covid test each day instead, at their own expense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 05:03:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 05:02:37 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 04:59:16 PM
What you are asking for here Radio is essentially people to be injected, (potentially) against their own free will. People know there is a 98% survival rate for this thing (if you even know you get it).

What we are requiring is that people present themselves for work in a manner which is not dangerous to others.
Perhaps they could be allowed a Covid test each day instead, at their own expense.

Again they could be vaccinated and still have covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 05:05:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 05:02:37 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 04:59:16 PM
What you are asking for here Radio is essentially people to be injected, (potentially) against their own free will. People know there is a 98% survival rate for this thing (if you even know you get it).

What we are requiring is that people present themselves for work in a manner which is not dangerous to others.
Perhaps they could be allowed a Covid test each day instead, at their own expense.

Maybe get a new job but you sound like a civil servant, doing f**k all daily so you probably wouldn't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 29, 2020, 05:06:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 29, 2020, 04:57:47 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 04:43:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:26:24 PM
The notion of making the vaccine compulsory for your job will be extremely hard to enforce. That is a significant change to a contract of employment and you can't simply make a unilateral change and enforce it on someone. If you make it as a pre-requisite for people applying for a job it will leave companies so open to potential claims.

The government need to change the law. Companies must not employ people who are a health risk to their customers and they must have the legal rights to do so. Make companies responsible for any infection from unvaccinated people.

Yawn the vaccination doesn't stop the spread, the whole country could be vaccinated and you could still get it, maybe you should take greater personal responsibility.
What's the evidence for your assertion?
Seaney?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 05:09:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 29, 2020, 05:06:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 29, 2020, 04:57:47 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 04:43:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:26:24 PM
The notion of making the vaccine compulsory for your job will be extremely hard to enforce. That is a significant change to a contract of employment and you can't simply make a unilateral change and enforce it on someone. If you make it as a pre-requisite for people applying for a job it will leave companies so open to potential claims.

The government need to change the law. Companies must not employ people who are a health risk to their customers and they must have the legal rights to do so. Make companies responsible for any infection from unvaccinated people.

Yawn the vaccination doesn't stop the spread, the whole country could be vaccinated and you could still get it, maybe you should take greater personal responsibility.
What's the evidence for your assertion?
Seaney?

Facts, care homes in the north first dose end Nov start Dec, all now reporting numerous cases, staff and residents. Have you scientific evidence it does stop the spread  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 29, 2020, 05:23:36 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 05:09:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 29, 2020, 05:06:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 29, 2020, 04:57:47 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 04:43:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 02:37:49 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:26:24 PM
The notion of making the vaccine compulsory for your job will be extremely hard to enforce. That is a significant change to a contract of employment and you can't simply make a unilateral change and enforce it on someone. If you make it as a pre-requisite for people applying for a job it will leave companies so open to potential claims.

The government need to change the law. Companies must not employ people who are a health risk to their customers and they must have the legal rights to do so. Make companies responsible for any infection from unvaccinated people.

Yawn the vaccination doesn't stop the spread, the whole country could be vaccinated and you could still get it, maybe you should take greater personal responsibility.
What's the evidence for your assertion?
Seaney?

Facts, care homes in the north first dose end Nov start Dec, all now reporting numerous cases, staff and residents. Have you scientific evidence it does stop the spread  ::)
I'm asking you for firm scientific evidence that the vaccine does not stop or inhibit the spread of the virus/Covid

The vaccine was not approved in November, it has only been approved very recently and a very small number of people have been vaccinated as of now

To the best of my knowledge the evidence you claim exists does not exist and only time will tell if the vaccine/s stop or inhibit the spread of the virus/Covid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 05:31:02 PM
I am asking you for firm evidence it does. 15th December one care home staff and residents vaccinated, today 13 positive cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 05:36:15 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 04:59:16 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 29, 2020, 04:17:01 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:56:56 PMImpossible to police. The Government cannot simply implement a law which will override the rights of millions of workers and their personal rights.  The vaccination is an invasion of a person, you cannot make it compulsory for people to have a needle stuck in them.  That is a huge breach of civil liberties, whether it is beneficial or not, and the Government cannot do that.

With respect - f**k the rights of the stupid to be stupid if it endangers others.

BCB1 is spot on here by the way.

What you are asking for here Radio is essentially people to be injected, (potentially) against their own free will. People know there is a 98% survival rate for this thing (if you even know you get it).

The North Koreans wouldn't even do that to their own people. I understand your passion on this subject but you are asking for Orwell's Dystopian nightmare here and something that simply must not be allowed to happen.

Chill the jets GAAGAA, I'm simply stating that it will be very hard to police and as has been stated the notion of compulsory vaccination is a no go in a modern civil society. Travel restrictions may be the easiest way to get people to get it. Airlines and ferry companies can out in place whatever restrictions they wish as they are private companies. If people can't travel they will quickly vaccinate.

For what it's worth I believe in the vaccination
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on December 29, 2020, 05:39:04 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 05:36:15 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 04:59:16 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 29, 2020, 04:17:01 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:56:56 PMImpossible to police. The Government cannot simply implement a law which will override the rights of millions of workers and their personal rights.  The vaccination is an invasion of a person, you cannot make it compulsory for people to have a needle stuck in them.  That is a huge breach of civil liberties, whether it is beneficial or not, and the Government cannot do that.

With respect - f**k the rights of the stupid to be stupid if it endangers others.

BCB1 is spot on here by the way.

What you are asking for here Radio is essentially people to be injected, (potentially) against their own free will. People know there is a 98% survival rate for this thing (if you even know you get it).

The North Koreans wouldn't even do that to their own people. I understand your passion on this subject but you are asking for Orwell's Dystopian nightmare here and something that simply must not be allowed to happen.

Chill the jets GAAGAA, I'm simply stating that it will be very hard to police and as has been stated the notion of compulsory vaccination is a no go in a modern civil society. Travel restrictions may be the easiest way to get people to get it. Airlines and ferry companies can out in place whatever restrictions they wish as they are private companies. If people can't travel they will quickly vaccinate.

For what it's worth I believe in the vaccination

It made eye catching reading, but surely if there is a vaccination programme rolled out for the entire population a register would have to be kept anyhow?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/12/29/europe/spain-vaccine-covid-registry-intl/index.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 05:57:34 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 29, 2020, 05:39:04 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 05:36:15 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 04:59:16 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 29, 2020, 04:17:01 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 02:56:56 PMImpossible to police. The Government cannot simply implement a law which will override the rights of millions of workers and their personal rights.  The vaccination is an invasion of a person, you cannot make it compulsory for people to have a needle stuck in them.  That is a huge breach of civil liberties, whether it is beneficial or not, and the Government cannot do that.

With respect - f**k the rights of the stupid to be stupid if it endangers others.

BCB1 is spot on here by the way.

What you are asking for here Radio is essentially people to be injected, (potentially) against their own free will. People know there is a 98% survival rate for this thing (if you even know you get it).

The North Koreans wouldn't even do that to their own people. I understand your passion on this subject but you are asking for Orwell's Dystopian nightmare here and something that simply must not be allowed to happen.

Chill the jets GAAGAA, I'm simply stating that it will be very hard to police and as has been stated the notion of compulsory vaccination is a no go in a modern civil society. Travel restrictions may be the easiest way to get people to get it. Airlines and ferry companies can out in place whatever restrictions they wish as they are private companies. If people can't travel they will quickly vaccinate.

For what it's worth I believe in the vaccination

It made eye catching reading, but surely if there is a vaccination programme rolled out for the entire population a register would have to be kept anyhow?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/12/29/europe/spain-vaccine-covid-registry-intl/index.html

A register like that would only be available for specific purposes unless they want to bypass all Data Protection laws that are in place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 06:12:07 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 05:36:15 PM
Chill the jets GAAGAA, I'm simply stating that it will be very hard to police and as has been stated the notion of compulsory vaccination is a no go in a modern civil society. Travel restrictions may be the easiest way to get people to get it. Airlines and ferry companies can out in place whatever restrictions they wish as they are private companies. If people can't travel they will quickly vaccinate.

For what it's worth I believe in the vaccination

Not only travel companies, but immigration authorities will simply require that people have a vaccine as they do for other diseases.
As for the pubic, there has been legislation and court cases regarding compulsory vaccination in the past, there is no new legal principle here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 29, 2020, 06:17:59 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 05:31:02 PM
I am asking you for firm evidence it does. 15th December one care home staff and residents vaccinated, today 13 positive cases.
I never claimed to have such evidence

You claimed firmly that the vaccine will not stop or inhibit spread

Where is the evidence of this

It's your question to answer, not mine

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 29, 2020, 07:28:32 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 05:36:15 PMChill the jets GAAGAA, I'm simply stating that it will be very hard to police

The paperwork would be a bit of a nightmare.

But if the airport/harbour police were allowed to do a finger-p***k antibody test - there would be few places to hide.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on December 29, 2020, 07:50:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 29, 2020, 06:12:07 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on December 29, 2020, 05:36:15 PM
Chill the jets GAAGAA, I'm simply stating that it will be very hard to police and as has been stated the notion of compulsory vaccination is a no go in a modern civil society. Travel restrictions may be the easiest way to get people to get it. Airlines and ferry companies can out in place whatever restrictions they wish as they are private companies. If people can't travel they will quickly vaccinate.

For what it's worth I believe in the vaccination

Not only travel companies, but immigration authorities will simply require that people have a vaccine as they do for other diseases.
As for the pubic, there has been legislation and court cases regarding compulsory vaccination in the past, there is no new legal principle here.

I'm not so sure about the travel end of things. I'd say it will be a based on a negative covid test rather than Vaccination. For a start certain people cant take the vaccination they would need a waiver. As someone else said it would be a nightmare to police.
             You are correct regarding compulsory vaccination to work in certain health care professions certainly within the NHS. The hepatitus B vaccine being a prime example.
            It does seem that the reluctance to get the Covid vaccine is reducing and anectodotally it seems that the introduction of the Astrazaneca-Oxford may help increase uptake.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 29, 2020, 08:00:53 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 28, 2020, 08:08:36 PM
JOG are you down to administrate vaccines? Well done if so
I would say the simple you can't travel to say Portugal Spain or Italy one and the uptake in younger people will go up to almost 90%
Not being able to go abroad unless you have the vaccine shoukd make sure uptake is good
Now I'm just reading reports and there should not be any issues with the vaccine
All over 80s that get vaccinated things will open up?
All over 65S and you would expect everywhere to open up ?

I'm not no Smurfy, not my field. Plenty are though which is brilliant to see.

Was told today by a buddy of a Boxing day shindig he was invited to (politely refused), crowd of school teachers and social workers. Just transpired one of them tested positive last night. Beyond entitled and daft. Folk cancel parents coming for Christmas Dinner, put everything on hold and you hear of these gatherings. Christ, would boil the blood
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 08:36:53 PM
One of the things really annoys me about Covid.

In the North we've had whatever deaths it is at min, 1,100 something....that's been presented as the end of days.

I don't mean to trivialise death, of couse. But bear with me.

Then in the below article, we see 600k have recieved the vaccination so far (UK/NI)- why can we not push the good news, the hope?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-55478675
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 29, 2020, 09:20:46 PM
Robin Swann saying today that the agegroup 20-39 now making up more tha 40% of positive cases in recent weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on December 29, 2020, 09:52:55 PM
Why is the south so slow at vaccinating people?

Does the 26 counties not have the resources?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 29, 2020, 10:00:09 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 29, 2020, 09:20:46 PM
Robin Swann saying today that the agegroup 20-39 now making up more tha 40% of positive cases in recent weeks.

I was reading that the number of 80+ year olds over the last number of weeks has really dropped. In a way it is probably good a higher percentage coming from a lower age.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 29, 2020, 10:05:45 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 29, 2020, 10:00:09 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 29, 2020, 09:20:46 PM
Robin Swann saying today that the agegroup 20-39 now making up more tha 40% of positive cases in recent weeks.

I was reading that the number of 80+ year olds over the last number of weeks has really dropped. In a way it is probably good a higher percentage coming from a lower age.

Had posted something earlier about some data crunchers on twitter throwing up graphs of the rate in over 80s dropping substantially post vaccine roll out. Others were picking holes I the info onTwitter so I removed the post.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 29, 2020, 10:11:58 PM
Likely same post. I would be doubtful the vaccine would be that effective that quickly. I have family in that age bracket and nothing has been mentioned to them about it so based on that I assume it hasn't been rolled out yet or rolled out fully? Any which way less in that age bracket are getting it I would just have my doubts it's due to vaccine yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 29, 2020, 10:24:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 29, 2020, 10:11:58 PM
Likely same post. I would be doubtful the vaccine would be that effective that quickly. I have family in that age bracket and nothing has been mentioned to them about it so based on that I assume it hasn't been rolled out yet or rolled out fully? Any which way less in that age bracket are getting it I would just have my doubts it's due to vaccine yet.

80% of care homes now vaccinated in da Nart.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 29, 2020, 10:29:36 PM
Just seen the jeepers
That is some going
Death rates should drop by 40% when the second shot is in 3 weeks
By the end of January at that rate all care homes should be done and most of the front line workers in the nhs
That's some going
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 29, 2020, 10:31:05 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 29, 2020, 10:24:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 29, 2020, 10:11:58 PM
Likely same post. I would be doubtful the vaccine would be that effective that quickly. I have family in that age bracket and nothing has been mentioned to them about it so based on that I assume it hasn't been rolled out yet or rolled out fully? Any which way less in that age bracket are getting it I would just have my doubts it's due to vaccine yet.

80% of care homes now vaccinated in da Nart.

Hadn't read that. Good to know. Parents in that age bracket but not in care home and heard nothing yet. (Care homes more important to sort first anyway).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 11:10:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 29, 2020, 06:17:59 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 05:31:02 PM
I am asking you for firm evidence it does. 15th December one care home staff and residents vaccinated, today 13 positive cases.
I never claimed to have such evidence

You claimed firmly that the vaccine will not stop or inhibit spread

Where is the evidence of this

It's your question to answer, not mine

Field evidence in the human UK trial. Read it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 11:11:11 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 29, 2020, 10:24:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 29, 2020, 10:11:58 PM
Likely same post. I would be doubtful the vaccine would be that effective that quickly. I have family in that age bracket and nothing has been mentioned to them about it so based on that I assume it hasn't been rolled out yet or rolled out fully? Any which way less in that age bracket are getting it I would just have my doubts it's due to vaccine yet.

80% of care homes now vaccinated in da Nart.

All first vaccines 2 to 3 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 11:12:45 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 29, 2020, 10:29:36 PM
Just seen the jeepers
That is some going
Death rates should drop by 40% when the second shot is in 3 weeks
By the end of January at that rate all care homes should be done and most of the front line workers in the nhs
That's some going

f**k that's some shite you just posted, any chance of evidence of this horseshite?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 29, 2020, 11:14:04 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on December 29, 2020, 09:20:46 PM
Robin Swann saying today that the agegroup 20-39 now making up more tha 40% of positive cases in recent weeks.

He's throwing out anything at this stage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 29, 2020, 11:18:02 PM
Seany it's not that hard to work out ya clown
54% of all deaths in the north are in care homes
Had it stopped for a few months then got back into 150 odd care homes and the deaths have been happening there again
So if ya eliminate that you fool which the vaccines will
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 11:21:12 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 29, 2020, 11:18:02 PM
Seany it's not that hard to work out ya clown
54% of all deaths in the north are in care homes
Had it stopped for a few months then got back into 150 odd care homes and the deaths have been happening there again
So if ya eliminate that you fool which the vaccines will

Another ballbag not in touch with reality, how many deaths were because of covid, who knows, you keep with the narrative as Milhouse would say calling out a dick.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2020, 11:26:11 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 11:21:12 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 29, 2020, 11:18:02 PM
Seany it's not that hard to work out ya clown
54% of all deaths in the north are in care homes
Had it stopped for a few months then got back into 150 odd care homes and the deaths have been happening there again
So if ya eliminate that you fool which the vaccines will

Another ballbag not in touch with reality, how many deaths were because of covid, who knows, you keep with the narrative as Milhouse would say calling out a dick.

Comedy gold Seaney... The gift that keeps giving

Asked for evidence earlier and never gives a link to his hair brain thoughts! 

Keeper her lit
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 29, 2020, 11:30:31 PM
I've concluded that the likes of Sid and Seany are forum admin created accounts to stimulate conversation. It's not the absolute nonsense, it's the repetition, the same inane points again and again and again and an absolute steadfast refusal to answer questions ie keep the rodeo going. Angelo also. I'm at peace with my conclusion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 29, 2020, 11:31:13 PM
Evidence. It's there for all to see on the government official page
Go and look yourself ya lazy tube
Yes they were registered that they died from covid
What's the issue there seany
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 29, 2020, 11:31:17 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 11:21:12 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 29, 2020, 11:18:02 PM
Seany it's not that hard to work out ya clown
54% of all deaths in the north are in care homes
Had it stopped for a few months then got back into 150 odd care homes and the deaths have been happening there again
So if ya eliminate that you fool which the vaccines will

Another ballbag not in touch with reality, how many deaths were because of covid, who knows, you keep with the narrative as Milhouse would say calling out a dick.

COVID was the underlying primary reason for 91% of Deaths that were recorded as COVID Deaths.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/deaths-caused-by-covid-19-in-northern-ireland-reach-755-39539154.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2020, 11:41:52 PM
Pointless, when Seaney or Angelo are faced with actual facts they disappear
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 30, 2020, 12:06:31 AM
Quote from: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 11:10:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 29, 2020, 06:17:59 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 05:31:02 PM
I am asking you for firm evidence it does. 15th December one care home staff and residents vaccinated, today 13 positive cases.
I never claimed to have such evidence

You claimed firmly that the vaccine will not stop or inhibit spread

Where is the evidence of this

It's your question to answer, not mine

Field evidence in the human UK trial. Read it.
That's not an answer, it's a word salad

File under "do ur own reserch"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 30, 2020, 09:29:46 AM
BBC News - Covid-19: Oxford-AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine approved for use in UK
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55280671

Another big step forward
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on December 30, 2020, 11:03:09 AM
Looks like they will be giving more people first dose and the second dose up to 12 wks after the first.

We will be in the pubs by Easter !!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on December 30, 2020, 12:05:40 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 30, 2020, 09:29:46 AM
BBC News - Covid-19: Oxford-AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine approved for use in UK
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55280671

Another big step forward

It appears to have a lower efficacy than the others, still 62%+, but given the choice, 95% looks a better deal to me!  But beggars can't be choosers in the current climate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 30, 2020, 12:56:29 PM
From within the BBC article - The Oxford vaccine was approved on 30 December following trials that it stops 70% of people developing Covid symptoms. The data also shows a strong immune response in older people. There is also data suggesting perfecting the dose can increase protection to 90%.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on December 30, 2020, 01:04:20 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on December 30, 2020, 12:05:40 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 30, 2020, 09:29:46 AM
BBC News - Covid-19: Oxford-AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine approved for use in UK
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55280671

Another big step forward

It appears to have a lower efficacy than the others, still 62%+, but given the choice, 95% looks a better deal to me!  But beggars can't be choosers in the current climate.

How is it worked out who gets what vaccine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 30, 2020, 01:13:19 PM
Rule Britannia!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 30, 2020, 01:30:10 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 30, 2020, 01:13:19 PM
Rule Britannia!

A great bunch of lads. Magnificent win for Boris, coupled with the double recently of Brexit.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 30, 2020, 01:34:57 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 30, 2020, 01:30:10 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 30, 2020, 01:13:19 PM
Rule Britannia!

A great bunch of lads. Magnificent win for Boris, coupled with the double recently of Brexit.

He's some man for one man 😉
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 30, 2020, 02:02:41 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 30, 2020, 01:04:20 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on December 30, 2020, 12:05:40 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 30, 2020, 09:29:46 AM
BBC News - Covid-19: Oxford-AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine approved for use in UK
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55280671

Another big step forward

It appears to have a lower efficacy than the others, still 62%+, but given the choice, 95% looks a better deal to me!  But beggars can't be choosers in the current climate.

How is it worked out who gets what vaccine?

I'd say that given the distribution requirement that the Astrazenaca vaccine would go out to GPs, Pharmacists etc, while the Pfizer one would be delivered in hospitals etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: shyted on December 30, 2020, 02:09:44 PM
with all nurses and carers and the like so busy wud it not be an idea for the army to get involved in rolling this vaccine out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on December 30, 2020, 02:23:57 PM
NI with another high record, 2,143 cases
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 30, 2020, 02:26:29 PM
Quote from: shyted on December 30, 2020, 02:09:44 PM
with all nurses and carers and the like so busy wud it not be an idea for the army to get involved in rolling this vaccine out

Careful now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 30, 2020, 02:32:24 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 30, 2020, 02:23:57 PM
NI with another high record, 2,143 cases

It's hardly surprising. No doubt it will be reaching 5,000 a day come early-mid January.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on December 30, 2020, 02:41:51 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 30, 2020, 02:32:24 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 30, 2020, 02:23:57 PM
NI with another high record, 2,143 cases

It's hardly surprising. No doubt it will be reaching 5,000 a day come early-mid January.

Would such a high number maybe be in some way related to people putting off getting tested just before Xmas ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on December 30, 2020, 02:47:10 PM
Quote from: shyted on December 30, 2020, 02:09:44 PM
with all nurses and carers and the like so busy wud it not be an idea for the army to get involved in rolling this vaccine out

Or retired nurses and carers who maybe feel they want to help? Surely that be a decent shout they'd already have the required training and experience to do it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on December 30, 2020, 03:00:22 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 30, 2020, 02:23:57 PM
NI with another high record, 2,143 cases

Numbers spiralling yet somehow it's the schools that are the problem. Someone is telling porkies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2020, 03:15:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on December 30, 2020, 03:00:22 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 30, 2020, 02:23:57 PM
NI with another high record, 2,143 cases

Numbers spiralling yet somehow it's the schools that are the problem. Someone is telling porkies.

Schools closed on the 18th, give it a chance
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on December 30, 2020, 04:21:18 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on December 30, 2020, 02:41:51 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 30, 2020, 02:32:24 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 30, 2020, 02:23:57 PM
NI with another high record, 2,143 cases

It's hardly surprising. No doubt it will be reaching 5,000 a day come early-mid January.

Would such a high number maybe be in some way related to people putting off getting tested just before Xmas ?

Maybe so, but those who picked up the virus at Christmas dinners/gatherings won't even know they have it yet. So what are the figures going to be like in a few days?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on December 30, 2020, 04:32:35 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 30, 2020, 02:32:24 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 30, 2020, 02:23:57 PM
NI with another high record, 2,143 cases

It's hardly surprising. No doubt it will be reaching 5,000 a day come early-mid January.

Would be a surprise if happens. It needs to leveling off in mid January.. The high reported numbers should continue for the next 7 days.

ROI will likely get its first day of over 2000 case either today or tomorrow. Plenty of hospital admissions in the last week but the bigger issue is outbreaks within the hospitals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 30, 2020, 04:39:20 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 30, 2020, 02:23:57 PM
NI with another high record, 2,143 cases
Equivalent of nearly 6,000 cases in the 26.
We'd be having a Melbourne type lock up .....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2020, 04:55:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 30, 2020, 04:39:20 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 30, 2020, 02:23:57 PM
NI with another high record, 2,143 cases
Equivalent of nearly 6,000 cases in the 26.
We'd be having a Melbourne type lock up .....

Fingers crossed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on December 30, 2020, 05:04:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 30, 2020, 04:39:20 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 30, 2020, 02:23:57 PM
NI with another high record, 2,143 cases
Equivalent of nearly 6,000 cases in the 26.
We'd be having a Melbourne type lock up .....

We are. Your time will come.

And those figures released today also are not just one day.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on December 30, 2020, 05:09:11 PM
Schools staying closed until the 11th Jan ffs  >:(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 30, 2020, 05:22:31 PM
NI had highest ever number of cases today,very unlikely with those timelines that source was schools
There is definitely a political agenda on the schools
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 30, 2020, 06:00:21 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on December 30, 2020, 05:04:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 30, 2020, 04:39:20 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 30, 2020, 02:23:57 PM
NI with another high record, 2,143 cases
Equivalent of nearly 6,000 cases in the 26.
We'd be having a Melbourne type lock up .....

We are. Your time will come.
Tiocfaidh Ár Lockdown
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on December 30, 2020, 06:07:41 PM
Full Level 5 lockdown for the month of January
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on December 30, 2020, 06:26:47 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 30, 2020, 05:22:31 PM
NI had highest ever number of cases today,very unlikely with those timelines that source was schools
There is definitely a political agenda on the schools

Absolutely. Schools should remain open. Teachers and their unions appear to driving this along with Daniel McCrossan for some reason.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on December 30, 2020, 06:27:05 PM
Quote from: laoislad on December 30, 2020, 06:07:41 PM
Full Level 5 lockdown for the month of January

At least was the key words in that public address. By January 31st we can be sure that another 2 to 3 weeks of level 5 restrictions will be confirmed. By mid February hopefully the most vulnerable are vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 30, 2020, 06:48:14 PM
Lock it down until Paddy's Day, preferably the day after Paddy's Day
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on December 30, 2020, 07:24:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 30, 2020, 06:48:14 PM
Lock it down until Paddy's Day, preferably the day after Paddy's Day

I was talking to the owner of my local just before Christmas and she was hoping to get to the 28th Dec before shutting up again. She expects this lockdown to last until Paddy's day for pubs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 30, 2020, 08:09:56 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 30, 2020, 05:22:31 PM
NI had highest ever number of cases today,very unlikely with those timelines that source was schools
There is definitely a political agenda on the schools

I am not sold that there is. If this is rife then schools have a lot of scope to spread it round. Also schools stopped when? Last week?  Don't get me wrong I think less lockdown is the big contributor here (plus look at any other country locally and the numbers are rife so something like new variant or something else must be at play).

I wouldn't want to see schools shut but I don't think it can be ruled out that they are either a factor or could in future be a factor.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 30, 2020, 08:12:59 PM
If Covid is rampant in any area then schools should be shut. This should not mean that they are shut in areas with much less Covid, children from closed areas are not going to start going to schools in areas that are still open.
Also England is distinguishing between primary and secondary schools and this seems sensible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 30, 2020, 08:16:33 PM
I would agree. I just don't get how it is always ruled out. Yes it is not THE big source of it but if there is a big source of it in your area it is not going to help.

Agreed on primary secondary.

The executive seem to have no ability to make more granular decisions on lockdowns so seem to go for the blanket approach.(E.g. I could never see them doing the primary / secondary distinction here). (They basically go far too stringent on some stuff and then just ignore other stuff - e.g. what is an essential business etc)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 30, 2020, 08:18:32 PM
Even when the schools were open we had days when the cases were in and around 250 that would make you think. It's not the schools that's driving it. In saying that I think a hard lockdown for 3 weeks with all schools closing and then get the schools back for the last 2 weeks of lockdown.
After the 6 weeks I think things will look a lot better. With numbers lower and the vaccine starting to show signs of working.
Pubs and restaurants will be after St Patrick's day
By Easter all will be open
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 30, 2020, 09:18:22 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 30, 2020, 08:18:32 PM
Even when the schools were open we had days when the cases were in and around 250 that would make you think. It's not the schools that's driving it. In saying that I think a hard lockdown for 3 weeks with all schools closing and then get the schools back for the last 2 weeks of lockdown.
After the 6 weeks I think things will look a lot better. With numbers lower and the vaccine starting to show signs of working.
Pubs and restaurants will be after St Patrick's day
By Easter all will be open

You advising governments around the world?::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 30, 2020, 09:20:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 30, 2020, 08:12:59 PM
If Covid is rampant in any area then schools should be shut. This should not mean that they are shut in areas with much less Covid, children from closed areas are not going to start going to schools in areas that are still open.
Also England is distinguishing between primary and secondary schools and this seems sensible.

And the kids locked in their rooms and their parents/ guardians shot if they leave the house and their mental well being should be cast a drift like so many others so you can go into work and do f**k all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 30, 2020, 09:25:37 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55491806 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55491806)

So all back.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 30, 2020, 09:54:36 PM
Seany you haven't a note lad
Have you ever debated anything yet
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on December 30, 2020, 09:58:50 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 30, 2020, 09:25:37 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55491806 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55491806)

So all back.

I was expecting to go back before this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 30, 2020, 10:15:42 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 30, 2020, 08:18:32 PM
Even when the schools were open we had days when the cases were in and around 250 that would make you think. It's not the schools that's driving it.

No single thing is "driving it".

Of all the various contributors, schools is one of the bigger ones. The bigger problem with schools - and one the media aren't bright enough to realise and tackle the idiotic politicians on - is that the spreaders will be largely asymptomatic - mean it is much harder to identify how X, Y and Z (who are showing symptoms) contracted the virus.

Added to this is the utterly idiotic approach of "only get tested when you have symptoms" - when the proportion of asymptomatic cases is anywhere between 8 and 75% (various sample studies) - even the most simple of simpletons can see how needing symptoms for a test is as useful as going fishing with half your net cut away.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Downtothewire on December 30, 2020, 10:17:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 30, 2020, 08:09:56 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 30, 2020, 05:22:31 PM
NI had highest ever number of cases today,very unlikely with those timelines that source was schools
There is definitely a political agenda on the schools

I am not sold that there is. If this is rife then schools have a lot of scope to spread it round. Also schools stopped when? Last week?  Don't get me wrong I think less lockdown is the big contributor here (plus look at any other country locally and the numbers are rife so something like new variant or something else must be at play).

I wouldn't want to see schools shut but I don't think it can be ruled out that they are either a factor or could in future be a factor.

Of course there is a political agenda. Just ask any teacher or indeed pupil how many Covid cases they have had in post primary schools, it's crazy. Talking to teacher yesterday and she was telling me out of 64 in her GCSE year all but 15 had confirmed cases since September. If these numbers were in an office workplace it would be closed and everyone working from home. My view is every time we go into lockdown or severe limiting restrictions schools should close.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 30, 2020, 10:18:49 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 30, 2020, 10:15:42 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 30, 2020, 08:18:32 PM
Even when the schools were open we had days when the cases were in and around 250 that would make you think. It's not the schools that's driving it.

No single thing is "driving it".

Of all the various contributors, schools is one of the bigger ones. The bigger problem with schools - and one the media aren't bright enough to realise and tackle the idiotic politicians on - is that the spreaders will be largely asymptomatic - mean it is much harder to identify how X, Y and Z (who are showing symptoms) contracted the virus.

Added to this is the utterly idiotic approach of "only get tested when you have symptoms" - when the proportion of asymptomatic cases is anywhere between 8 and 75% (various sample studies) - even the most simple of simpletons can see how needing symptoms for a test is as useful as going fishing with half your net cut away.

There is no evidence internationally that schools are one of the biggest drivers. However, as you say, this "only get tested when you have symptoms" is complete bollix, if a child gets it then those in their class should be tested, at least.
This "only get tested when you have symptoms" means that there could be another 1000 in the North with Covid today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 30, 2020, 10:21:15 PM
I'm not even sure that all schools are mandating kids with symptoms get tested never mind kids without them. (*case study of 3 schools)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 30, 2020, 10:31:42 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on December 30, 2020, 10:17:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 30, 2020, 08:09:56 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 30, 2020, 05:22:31 PM
NI had highest ever number of cases today,very unlikely with those timelines that source was schools
There is definitely a political agenda on the schools

I am not sold that there is. If this is rife then schools have a lot of scope to spread it round. Also schools stopped when? Last week?  Don't get me wrong I think less lockdown is the big contributor here (plus look at any other country locally and the numbers are rife so something like new variant or something else must be at play).

I wouldn't want to see schools shut but I don't think it can be ruled out that they are either a factor or could in future be a factor.

Of course there is a political agenda. Just ask any teacher or indeed pupil how many Covid cases they have had in post primary schools, it's crazy. Talking to teacher yesterday and she was telling me out of 64 in her GCSE year all but 15 had confirmed cases since September. If these numbers were in an office workplace it would be closed and everyone working from home. My view is every time we go into lockdown or severe limiting restrictions schools should close.

Honestly that couldn't be farther from the truth , we had over 150 employees positive, no shut down, no action . The schools attributed to 5% of cases in figures released few weeks back by NISRA. I don't believe all these anetodal stories you hear about schools. Undoubtedly some are true but most are bull. Stormont have had plenty of time to help schools prepare for the challenge but as far as i can see it's been another flop . I want my wains at school. Btw I have no idea who will pick up on Childminding hours if we get another extended school closure
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: FermGael on December 30, 2020, 10:33:07 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 30, 2020, 10:21:15 PM
I'm not even sure that all schools are mandating kids with symptoms get tested never mind kids without them. (*case study of 3 schools)
Schools cannot mandate a child with symptoms to get tested
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 30, 2020, 10:39:31 PM
I think Weir has come under that much pressure he will have to close tomorrow
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 31, 2020, 03:40:34 AM
Unless you work in education, you don't realise how big the problem is through schools. Actual figures are been withheld DE and the EA don't want their staff in, and stay at home but no problem throwing the children and teachers into schools to end up taking Covid home. They are hardly leading by example when they keep there own staff at home, when large numbers refuse to come bck.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 31, 2020, 10:51:44 AM
So all primary schools off until the 11th
Secondary for the month with the exception of exam kids and frontline
Don't think we have heard the end of the primary kids one. Like has been the case he will come under more pressure to keep closed past the 11th and make a last minute call. Why not just say all primary off until the 25th and start planning. Give himself some space. Remove the midterm
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on December 31, 2020, 11:49:52 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 31, 2020, 10:51:44 AM
So all primary schools off until the 11th
Secondary for the month with the exception of exam kids and frontline
Don't think we have heard the end of the primary kids one. Like has been the case he will come under more pressure to keep closed past the 11th and make a last minute call. Why not just say all primary off until the 25th and start planning. Give himself some space. Remove the midterm

Come on, teachers still need their week off in mid Feb!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 31, 2020, 12:19:37 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 31, 2020, 11:49:52 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 31, 2020, 10:51:44 AM
So all primary schools off until the 11th
Secondary for the month with the exception of exam kids and frontline
Don't think we have heard the end of the primary kids one. Like has been the case he will come under more pressure to keep closed past the 11th and make a last minute call. Why not just say all primary off until the 25th and start planning. Give himself some space. Remove the midterm

Come on, teachers still need their week off in mid Feb!!

I expect the online learning to be as pathetic as the first lockdown  - throw a few notes to the kids on a Monday and lie back.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on December 31, 2020, 02:23:58 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 31, 2020, 12:19:37 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 31, 2020, 11:49:52 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 31, 2020, 10:51:44 AM
So all primary schools off until the 11th
Secondary for the month with the exception of exam kids and frontline
Don't think we have heard the end of the primary kids one. Like has been the case he will come under more pressure to keep closed past the 11th and make a last minute call. Why not just say all primary off until the 25th and start planning. Give himself some space. Remove the midterm

Come on, teachers still need their week off in mid Feb!!

I expect the online learning to be as pathetic as the first lockdown  - throw a few notes to the kids on a Monday and lie back.

If that's what you were getting then you seriously need to take it up with the principal of that school or move your children out of the school.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 31, 2020, 02:27:34 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on December 31, 2020, 02:23:58 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 31, 2020, 12:19:37 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 31, 2020, 11:49:52 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 31, 2020, 10:51:44 AM
So all primary schools off until the 11th
Secondary for the month with the exception of exam kids and frontline
Don't think we have heard the end of the primary kids one. Like has been the case he will come under more pressure to keep closed past the 11th and make a last minute call. Why not just say all primary off until the 25th and start planning. Give himself some space. Remove the midterm

Come on, teachers still need their week off in mid Feb!!

I expect the online learning to be as pathetic as the first lockdown  - throw a few notes to the kids on a Monday and lie back.

If that's what you were getting then you seriously need to take it up with the principal of that school or move your children out of the school.

Do you honestly believe this poster has kids? Ffs! WUM
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on December 31, 2020, 02:53:57 PM
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/12/30/what-is-left-to-say/

This article pretty pretty much sums how I feel about COVID.

So much noise. So little consideration.

The past year has seen a ridiculous emphasis on "form" over "pedigree".

It's an awful shame that social media has created a platform for COVID fanatics to incessantly paint non-fanatics as tin-hat wearing imbeciles, and for the actual tin-hat wearers to simultaneously fan these flames.

As mentioned before, the internet should have made us more enlightened. It seems to have has the opposite effect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 31, 2020, 03:08:36 PM
Less than 2k up north(1929)... progress I guess...

If these transfer into even 1% hospital cases a day could be big problems in a week or two. I guess in terms of reporting only really two days have been reported since the 22nd so maybe the basically 4K cases we have had over the last few days has been more spread out. Maybe...

Wobbler you only have to read some threads on here to see how some people think they're incredibly enlightened spouting nothing but nonsense with such confidence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 31, 2020, 03:11:09 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on December 31, 2020, 02:23:58 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 31, 2020, 12:19:37 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 31, 2020, 11:49:52 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 31, 2020, 10:51:44 AM
So all primary schools off until the 11th
Secondary for the month with the exception of exam kids and frontline
Don't think we have heard the end of the primary kids one. Like has been the case he will come under more pressure to keep closed past the 11th and make a last minute call. Why not just say all primary off until the 25th and start planning. Give himself some space. Remove the midterm

Come on, teachers still need their week off in mid Feb!!

I expect the online learning to be as pathetic as the first lockdown  - throw a few notes to the kids on a Monday and lie back.

If that's what you were getting then you seriously need to take it up with the principal of that school or move your children out of the school.

It appears to be across schools, do teachers have to do online live classes, of have they the unions backings not to do so?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on December 31, 2020, 03:12:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 31, 2020, 02:27:34 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on December 31, 2020, 02:23:58 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 31, 2020, 12:19:37 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 31, 2020, 11:49:52 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 31, 2020, 10:51:44 AM
So all primary schools off until the 11th
Secondary for the month with the exception of exam kids and frontline
Don't think we have heard the end of the primary kids one. Like has been the case he will come under more pressure to keep closed past the 11th and make a last minute call. Why not just say all primary off until the 25th and start planning. Give himself some space. Remove the midterm

Come on, teachers still need their week off in mid Feb!!

I expect the online learning to be as pathetic as the first lockdown  - throw a few notes to the kids on a Monday and lie back.

If that's what you were getting then you seriously need to take it up with the principal of that school or move your children out of the school.

Do you honestly believe this poster has kids? Ffs! WUM

Why Milhouse do you think that, do you need specific credentials to be a father - you appear to be one and are a parasite of a human being.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on December 31, 2020, 03:28:21 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 31, 2020, 03:11:09 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on December 31, 2020, 02:23:58 PM
Quote from: Seaney on December 31, 2020, 12:19:37 PM
Quote from: marty34 on December 31, 2020, 11:49:52 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on December 31, 2020, 10:51:44 AM
So all primary schools off until the 11th
Secondary for the month with the exception of exam kids and frontline
Don't think we have heard the end of the primary kids one. Like has been the case he will come under more pressure to keep closed past the 11th and make a last minute call. Why not just say all primary off until the 25th and start planning. Give himself some space. Remove the midterm

Come on, teachers still need their week off in mid Feb!!

I expect the online learning to be as pathetic as the first lockdown  - throw a few notes to the kids on a Monday and lie back.

If that's what you were getting then you seriously need to take it up with the principal of that school or move your children out of the school.

It appears to be across schools, do teachers have to do online live classes, of have they the unions backings not to do so?

Are you in the North or the South? I don't know of any of the local schools sending a note out on the Monday and that's that. I have done live classes during the first lockdown but there were a lot of issues. The main one was getting everyone online at the same time as some children were sharing devices. The big one for me though is the child protection issues of doing live video chats with primary school age children. I would always insist on a parent being present or somewhere close by. I actually know of one school were a child video a sibling getting changed as a joke. Of course this joke went down very badly with several other parents and I'm sure caused a lot of stress for the family involved. I send YouTube links and video the explanations of the more complicated exercises. Online learning needs to be manageable and realistic. Setting out a 9-3 day of activities is totally unrealistic as no one will do that. It needs to be structured and easy to follow. Hopefully it's not that long this time and children are back in the classroom sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 31, 2020, 03:29:55 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 31, 2020, 02:53:57 PM
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/12/30/what-is-left-to-say/

This article pretty pretty much sums how I feel about COVID.

So much noise. So little consideration.

This article has some selected points. However, the number of cases, and so eventually hospitalisations, in the UK is 3 times the number when this article was written. This increase occurred despite the restrictions, it would have been much worse without the efforts to dampen things down.

It does reveal something slightly strange, EuroMomo charts don't show any blip in NI in recent weeks, but NISRA data does. Deaths in NI in November 2020 were 16% higher than Nov 2019 and 30% higher than average for November over the last 12 years.

QuoteIt's an awful shame that social media has created a platform for COVID fanatics to incessantly paint non-fanatics as tin-hat wearing imbeciles, and for the actual tin-hat wearers to simultaneously fan these flames.

As mentioned before, the internet should have made us more enlightened. It seems to have has the opposite effect.

Many of these are tin hat imbeciles, others are downright mé féiners.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 31, 2020, 03:33:50 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 31, 2020, 02:53:57 PM
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/12/30/what-is-left-to-say/

This article pretty pretty much sums how I feel about COVID.

So much noise. So little consideration.

The past year has seen a ridiculous emphasis on "form" over "pedigree".

It's an awful shame that social media has created a platform for COVID fanatics to incessantly paint non-fanatics as tin-hat wearing imbeciles, and for the actual tin-hat wearers to simultaneously fan these flames.

As mentioned before, the internet should have made us more enlightened. It seems to have has the opposite effect.
Malcolm Kendrick's "pedigree" is that he is fervently anti-lockdown, he writes for Russia Today, is a willing guest of the arch-grifting "Fat Emperor" Ivor Cummins who has been one of the most dangerous voices anywhere during this whole pandemic

That's an extremely dodgy "pedigree"

Cummins is most certainly a fanatic

And I have found consistently that those who are fervently anti-lockdown are fanatics of the worst kind


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on December 31, 2020, 03:52:51 PM
Sid you're highlighting our different personalities there.

I've no idea who Malcolm Kendrick is. I don't overly care either. Almost the last thing I'll do with any independent article is read the author's name. And I definitely won't chase his previous work down a rabbit hole.

To me this is a thoughtful, well-written piece.

Does this mean he's not trying to prove a point? No. Does it mean the author is in control of his natural biases? No.

But it's still measured in comparison to almost any COVID opinion piece.

——

By the way when I talk of form and pedigree in COVID, it's in reference to how the average Twitter user has been assessing and promoting data. People are oh so unnecessarily quick to declare "victories" for the side they've chosen.

I'm hoping we might get a period of quiet reflection sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 31, 2020, 04:09:33 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 31, 2020, 03:52:51 PM
Sid you're highlighting our different personalities there.

I've no idea who Malcolm Kendrick is. I don't overly care either. Almost the last thing I'll do with any independent article is read the author's name. And I definitely won't chase his previous work down a rabbit hole.

To me this is a thoughtful, well-written piece.

Does this mean he's not trying to prove a point? No. Does it mean the author is in control of his natural biases? No.

But it's still measured in comparison to almost any COVID opinion piece.

——

By the way when I talk of form and pedigree in COVID, it's in reference to how the average Twitter user has been assessing and promoting data. People are oh so unnecessarily quick to declare "victories" for the side they've chosen.

I'm hoping we might get a period of quiet reflection sooner rather than later.
In a post about "pedigree", you dismiss the author's pedigree completely

Quelle ironie
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on December 31, 2020, 04:16:46 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 31, 2020, 02:53:57 PM
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/12/30/what-is-left-to-say/

This article pretty pretty much sums how I feel about COVID.

So much noise. So little consideration.

The past year has seen a ridiculous emphasis on "form" over "pedigree".

It's an awful shame that social media has created a platform for COVID fanatics to incessantly paint non-fanatics as tin-hat wearing imbeciles, and for the actual tin-hat wearers to simultaneously fan these flames.

As mentioned before, the internet should have made us more enlightened. It seems to have has the opposite effect.

Kendrick is a dangerous fool.

His approach to science is the following
1 Take a position
2. Google research titles
3. Dismiss any article where the title does not confirm the research will agree with the position adopted at stage 1
4. Any remaining research is used as evidence supporting his position (even if only article survives the cull at stage 3)

His is not research it's self selecting confirmation bias. The opposite of science.

How do know this? Because he has already been caught doing exactly that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on December 31, 2020, 04:20:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 31, 2020, 04:09:33 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 31, 2020, 03:52:51 PM
Sid you're highlighting our different personalities there.

I've no idea who Malcolm Kendrick is. I don't overly care either. Almost the last thing I'll do with any independent article is read the author's name. And I definitely won't chase his previous work down a rabbit hole.

To me this is a thoughtful, well-written piece.

Does this mean he's not trying to prove a point? No. Does it mean the author is in control of his natural biases? No.

But it's still measured in comparison to almost any COVID opinion piece.

——

By the way when I talk of form and pedigree in COVID, it's in reference to how the average Twitter user has been assessing and promoting data. People are oh so unnecessarily quick to declare "victories" for the side they've chosen.

I'm hoping we might get a period of quiet reflection sooner rather than later.
In a post about "pedigree", you dismiss the author's pedigree completely

Quelle ironie

Oh go f**k yourself. I explained above what I meant by pedigree and form.

Not spending my NYE arguing with you about nothing. f**k off to some other message board you pious, obnoxious, repetitive, boring **** of a human being.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on December 31, 2020, 04:24:42 PM
Quote from: LCohen on December 31, 2020, 04:16:46 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 31, 2020, 02:53:57 PM
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/12/30/what-is-left-to-say/

This article pretty pretty much sums how I feel about COVID.

So much noise. So little consideration.

The past year has seen a ridiculous emphasis on "form" over "pedigree".

It's an awful shame that social media has created a platform for COVID fanatics to incessantly paint non-fanatics as tin-hat wearing imbeciles, and for the actual tin-hat wearers to simultaneously fan these flames.

As mentioned before, the internet should have made us more enlightened. It seems to have has the opposite effect.

Kendrick is a dangerous fool.

His approach to science is the following
1 Take a position
2. Google research titles
3. Dismiss any article where the title does not confirm the research will agree with the position adopted at stage 1
4. Any remaining research is used as evidence supporting his position (even if only article survives the cull at stage 3)

His is not research it's self selecting confirmation bias. The opposite of science.

How do know this? Because he has already been caught doing exactly that.

The article is an opinion piece based on mortality rates. It doesn't wander into other territories.

If his mortality data is wrong, he is wrong. If his mortality data is right, then this a sensible discussion to have in a level headed way; regardless of what he has said in the past.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 31, 2020, 04:25:11 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 31, 2020, 04:20:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 31, 2020, 04:09:33 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 31, 2020, 03:52:51 PM
Sid you're highlighting our different personalities there.

I've no idea who Malcolm Kendrick is. I don't overly care either. Almost the last thing I'll do with any independent article is read the author's name. And I definitely won't chase his previous work down a rabbit hole.

To me this is a thoughtful, well-written piece.

Does this mean he's not trying to prove a point? No. Does it mean the author is in control of his natural biases? No.

But it's still measured in comparison to almost any COVID opinion piece.

——

By the way when I talk of form and pedigree in COVID, it's in reference to how the average Twitter user has been assessing and promoting data. People are oh so unnecessarily quick to declare "victories" for the side they've chosen.

I'm hoping we might get a period of quiet reflection sooner rather than later.
In a post about "pedigree", you dismiss the author's pedigree completely

Quelle ironie

Oh go f**k yourself. I explained above what I meant by pedigree and form.

Not spending my NYE arguing with you about nothing. f**k off to some other message board you pious, obnoxious, repetitive, boring **** of a human being.
Thanks for the abuse, happy New Year to you as well
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: blasmere on December 31, 2020, 04:33:20 PM
Boards.ie

sid waddell is offline
Banned
Last Activity: 13-09-2020 09:55
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on December 31, 2020, 07:01:41 PM
2020 a year in review is on rte now. Covid covid covid is all there is. What a year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on December 31, 2020, 07:06:50 PM
So from the 101 deaths in the south of Ireland in December
33 care homes
33 hospital outbreaks
35 from the community

I would imagine the 33 in hospital were patients who were very sick

Get that vaccination into the old and venerable quickly

WOW
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 31, 2020, 07:29:58 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on December 31, 2020, 07:01:41 PM
2020 a year in review is on rte now. Covid covid covid is all there is. What a year.
It kind of took things over alright :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 08:20:44 PM
I came across that Ivor Cummins fella on twitter a while back and was intrigued for a bit, lost interest within days
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 09:30:06 PM
Jesus just watched RTE news at 9pm (I don't watch RTE News generally),  that's not Covid news for grown ups.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 09:37:22 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 09:30:06 PM
Jesus just watched RTE news at 9pm (I don't watch RTE News generally),  that's not Covid news for grown ups.
What news would you generally watch?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
Sky or BBC
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 31, 2020, 10:06:01 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 31, 2020, 02:53:57 PM
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/12/30/what-is-left-to-say/

This article pretty pretty much sums how I feel about COVID.

So much noise. So little consideration.

I assume you mean the article is so much noise with so little consideration?

Yer man didn't go far out of his way to interpret his own data.

(https://euromomo.eu/uploads/images/pooled_wk52_bulletin-727eeccb-68eb-493d-b36f-0c0e895685c7.png)

Compare to 2017/2018 or 2018/2019 - the spike this winter is not limited to the new year. Given the results of the past few weeks won't be in yet*, and combined with media reports across europe of hospital occupancy etc, it is safe to assume that the numbers will not have peaked but will instead be sustained or rise further.


*note how it descends back to baseline for last entry point - simply because the numbers aren't in!


So we are currently looking at between 1.5x and 2x the death rate of previous winters in this Nov/Dec. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
Sky or BBC
I'm genuinely not on the wind up here, but I thought that most folk aspiring to a UI looked to the RTE for their news etc.  Tbh, as a unionist who listens to BBC TV, Radio etc, this would be one of the reasons why I would not be too keen on a UI.  Perhaps not the correct thread for this, but there you go.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 31, 2020, 10:14:10 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
Sky or BBC
I'm genuinely not on the wind up here, but I thought that most folk aspiring to a UI looked to the RTE for their news etc.  Tbh, as a unionist who listens to BBC TV, Radio etc, this would be one of the reasons why I would not be too keen on a UI.  Perhaps not the correct thread for this, but there you go.

Would never watch RTE news, in fairness I wouldn't watch news unless there was something came up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 31, 2020, 10:23:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 31, 2020, 10:14:10 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
Sky or BBC
I'm genuinely not on the wind up here, but I thought that most folk aspiring to a UI looked to the RTE for their news etc.  Tbh, as a unionist who listens to BBC TV, Radio etc, this would be one of the reasons why I would not be too keen on a UI.  Perhaps not the correct thread for this, but there you go.

Would never watch RTE news, in fairness I wouldn't watch news unless there was something came up

When I was young and troubles were going we only had between 4-6 channels. In Derry we had no issue getting "teilifís Éireann" as everyone called it and my Da insisted on RTÉ 1 being button 1 then RTÉ 2 button 2. Anything to prove our Irishness lol, but with advent of sky the 6 o clock news on RTÉ has got lost a bit. I still always go to TG4 and RTÉ channels everyday though for other stuff.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 10:52:27 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
Sky or BBC
I'm genuinely not on the wind up here, but I thought that most folk aspiring to a UI looked to the RTE for their news etc.  Tbh, as a unionist who listens to BBC TV, Radio etc, this would be one of the reasons why I would not be too keen on a UI.  Perhaps not the correct thread for this, but there you go.
It's  like a different country (copyright Ian Rush)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 10:57:47 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 10:52:27 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
Sky or BBC
I'm genuinely not on the wind up here, but I thought that most folk aspiring to a UI looked to the RTE for their news etc.  Tbh, as a unionist who listens to BBC TV, Radio etc, this would be one of the reasons why I would not be too keen on a UI.  Perhaps not the correct thread for this, but there you go.
It's  like a different country (copyright Ian Rush)
For you too then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 11:03:54 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 10:52:27 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
Sky or BBC
I'm genuinely not on the wind up here, but I thought that most folk aspiring to a UI looked to the RTE for their news etc.  Tbh, as a unionist who listens to BBC TV, Radio etc, this would be one of the reasons why I would not be too keen on a UI.  Perhaps not the correct thread for this, but there you go.
It's  like a different country (copyright Ian Rush)
Apparently old Rushie never said that!  Shame, always found it a funny quote / comment!
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ian-rush-i-never-said-italy-was-foreign-country-dalglish-has-lot-answer
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 11:27:40 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 10:57:47 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 10:52:27 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
Sky or BBC
I'm genuinely not on the wind up here, but I thought that most folk aspiring to a UI looked to the RTE for their news etc.  Tbh, as a unionist who listens to BBC TV, Radio etc, this would be one of the reasons why I would not be too keen on a UI.  Perhaps not the correct thread for this, but there you go.
It's  like a different country (copyright Ian Rush)
For you too then?
I probably find it different in a different way than yourself I reckon tbh.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 11:41:30 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 11:27:40 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 10:57:47 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 10:52:27 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
Sky or BBC
I'm genuinely not on the wind up here, but I thought that most folk aspiring to a UI looked to the RTE for their news etc.  Tbh, as a unionist who listens to BBC TV, Radio etc, this would be one of the reasons why I would not be too keen on a UI.  Perhaps not the correct thread for this, but there you go.
It's  like a different country (copyright Ian Rush)
For you too then?
I probably find it different in a different way than yourself I reckon tbh.
Not so much a different country per se. However, other than Ireland rugby matches, generally accessed via BBC or ITV more recently, a lot of the news and cultural life in the ROI passes me by.  I dare say, however, that except for those from a nationalist background with an interest in GAA, the same night apply too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on December 31, 2020, 11:44:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 31, 2020, 10:23:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 31, 2020, 10:14:10 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
Sky or BBC
I'm genuinely not on the wind up here, but I thought that most folk aspiring to a UI looked to the RTE for their news etc.  Tbh, as a unionist who listens to BBC TV, Radio etc, this would be one of the reasons why I would not be too keen on a UI.  Perhaps not the correct thread for this, but there you go.

Would never watch RTE news, in fairness I wouldn't watch news unless there was something came up

When I was young and troubles were going we only had between 4-6 channels. In Derry we had no issue getting "teilifís Éireann" as everyone called it and my Da insisted on RTÉ 1 being button 1 then RTÉ 2 button 2. Anything to prove our Irishness lol, but with advent of sky the 6 o clock news on RTÉ has got lost a bit. I still always go to TG4 and RTÉ channels everyday though for other stuff.

that's how ulsterisation works, lads on the gah board watching the english news  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2021, 12:23:57 AM
English news? Or northern news?

I love the rte maps doing the weather, partition in a nutshell
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 01, 2021, 12:31:44 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2021, 12:23:57 AM
English news? Or northern news?

I love the rte maps doing the weather, partition in a nutshell

If you want Partition - Listen to all the National Radio stations Weather forecast. There is a real East/West divide going on there!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 01, 2021, 12:38:51 AM
Quote from: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 11:41:30 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 11:27:40 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 10:57:47 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 10:52:27 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
Sky or BBC
I'm genuinely not on the wind up here, but I thought that most folk aspiring to a UI looked to the RTE for their news etc.  Tbh, as a unionist who listens to BBC TV, Radio etc, this would be one of the reasons why I would not be too keen on a UI.  Perhaps not the correct thread for this, but there you go.
It's  like a different country (copyright Ian Rush)
For you too then?
I probably find it different in a different way than yourself I reckon tbh.
Not so much a different country per se. However, other than Ireland rugby matches, generally accessed via BBC or ITV more recently, a lot of the news and cultural life in the ROI passes me by.  I dare say, however, that except for those from a nationalist background with an interest in GAA, the same night apply too.

I know alot of people round belfast who don't have rte because they haven't bothered to sort it out, and aren't too bothered about it. Always baffled me. It was always on in my house growing up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 01, 2021, 12:41:08 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on December 31, 2020, 11:44:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 31, 2020, 10:23:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 31, 2020, 10:14:10 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
Sky or BBC
I'm genuinely not on the wind up here, but I thought that most folk aspiring to a UI looked to the RTE for their news etc.  Tbh, as a unionist who listens to BBC TV, Radio etc, this would be one of the reasons why I would not be too keen on a UI.  Perhaps not the correct thread for this, but there you go.

Would never watch RTE news, in fairness I wouldn't watch news unless there was something came up

When I was young and troubles were going we only had between 4-6 channels. In Derry we had no issue getting "teilifís Éireann" as everyone called it and my Da insisted on RTÉ 1 being button 1 then RTÉ 2 button 2. Anything to prove our Irishness lol, but with advent of sky the 6 o clock news on RTÉ has got lost a bit. I still always go to TG4 and RTÉ channels everyday though for other stuff.

that's how ulsterisation works, lads on the gah board watching the english news  ::)
ROI is a foreign country kid. What happens politically  in London is more important than Dublin unfortunately
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: michaelg on January 01, 2021, 01:09:00 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on December 31, 2020, 11:44:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 31, 2020, 10:23:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 31, 2020, 10:14:10 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
Sky or BBC
I'm genuinely not on the wind up here, but I thought that most folk aspiring to a UI looked to the RTE for their news etc.  Tbh, as a unionist who listens to BBC TV, Radio etc, this would be one of the reasons why I would not be too keen on a UI.  Perhaps not the correct thread for this, but there you go.

Would never watch RTE news, in fairness I wouldn't watch news unless there was something came up

When I was young and troubles were going we only had between 4-6 channels. In Derry we had no issue getting "teilifís Éireann" as everyone called it and my Da insisted on RTÉ 1 being button 1 then RTÉ 2 button 2. Anything to prove our Irishness lol, but with advent of sky the 6 o clock news on RTÉ has got lost a bit. I still always go to TG4 and RTÉ channels everyday though for other stuff.

that's how ulsterisation works, lads on the gah board watching the english news  ::)
The point is that in the current digital media age, folk can access what they want.  How many folk in the O6C actually watch RTE?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2021, 01:26:06 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 01, 2021, 12:38:51 AM
Quote from: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 11:41:30 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 11:27:40 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 10:57:47 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 10:52:27 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
Sky or BBC
I'm genuinely not on the wind up here, but I thought that most folk aspiring to a UI looked to the RTE for their news etc.  Tbh, as a unionist who listens to BBC TV, Radio etc, this would be one of the reasons why I would not be too keen on a UI.  Perhaps not the correct thread for this, but there you go.
It's  like a different country (copyright Ian Rush)
For you too then?
I probably find it different in a different way than yourself I reckon tbh.
Not so much a different country per se. However, other than Ireland rugby matches, generally accessed via BBC or ITV more recently, a lot of the news and cultural life in the ROI passes me by.  I dare say, however, that except for those from a nationalist background with an interest in GAA, the same night apply too.

I know alot of people round belfast who don't have rte because they haven't bothered to sort it out, and aren't too bothered about it. Always baffled me. It was always on in my house growing up.

Was an rte aerial in every house in my street in the 70's in Belfast, just didn't watch it other than the GAA

Anyone who has sky get it free, I doubt there's too many without sky or free tv nowadays, is it people you know in Belfast that are students or actual residents?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on January 01, 2021, 02:19:59 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 01, 2021, 12:41:08 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on December 31, 2020, 11:44:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 31, 2020, 10:23:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 31, 2020, 10:14:10 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
Sky or BBC
I'm genuinely not on the wind up here, but I thought that most folk aspiring to a UI looked to the RTE for their news etc.  Tbh, as a unionist who listens to BBC TV, Radio etc, this would be one of the reasons why I would not be too keen on a UI.  Perhaps not the correct thread for this, but there you go.

Would never watch RTE news, in fairness I wouldn't watch news unless there was something came up

When I was young and troubles were going we only had between 4-6 channels. In Derry we had no issue getting "teilifís Éireann" as everyone called it and my Da insisted on RTÉ 1 being button 1 then RTÉ 2 button 2. Anything to prove our Irishness lol, but with advent of sky the 6 o clock news on RTÉ has got lost a bit. I still always go to TG4 and RTÉ channels everyday though for other stuff.

that's how ulsterisation works, lads on the gah board watching the english news  ::)
ROI is a foreign country kid. What happens politically  in London is more important than Dublin unfortunately
No it isn't.
Didn't know you were a hun. On before talking about buying armagh GAA tops, talking about celtic in that thread before coming out with west brit terms like that and saying how proud you are to be a UK citizen in a previous post.
Confused individual
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2021, 09:21:56 AM
Quote from: michaelg on January 01, 2021, 01:09:00 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on December 31, 2020, 11:44:40 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 31, 2020, 10:23:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 31, 2020, 10:14:10 PM
Quote from: michaelg on December 31, 2020, 10:10:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
Sky or BBC
I'm genuinely not on the wind up here, but I thought that most folk aspiring to a UI looked to the RTE for their news etc.  Tbh, as a unionist who listens to BBC TV, Radio etc, this would be one of the reasons why I would not be too keen on a UI.  Perhaps not the correct thread for this, but there you go.

Would never watch RTE news, in fairness I wouldn't watch news unless there was something came up

When I was young and troubles were going we only had between 4-6 channels. In Derry we had no issue getting "teilifís Éireann" as everyone called it and my Da insisted on RTÉ 1 being button 1 then RTÉ 2 button 2. Anything to prove our Irishness lol, but with advent of sky the 6 o clock news on RTÉ has got lost a bit. I still always go to TG4 and RTÉ channels everyday though for other stuff.

that's how ulsterisation works, lads on the gah board watching the english news  ::)
The point is that in the current digital media age, folk can access what they want.  How many folk in the O6C actually watch RTE?

Honestly every day, always listen to RTE radio 1 and 2fm too, admittedly the children would never watch or listen to it. Tg4 is just unbelievable in terms of content with the budget they must have. I'd watch TG4 more than RTÉ
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on January 01, 2021, 10:16:03 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 31, 2020, 04:24:42 PM
Quote from: LCohen on December 31, 2020, 04:16:46 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on December 31, 2020, 02:53:57 PM
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/12/30/what-is-left-to-say/

This article pretty pretty much sums how I feel about COVID.

So much noise. So little consideration.

The past year has seen a ridiculous emphasis on "form" over "pedigree".

It's an awful shame that social media has created a platform for COVID fanatics to incessantly paint non-fanatics as tin-hat wearing imbeciles, and for the actual tin-hat wearers to simultaneously fan these flames.

As mentioned before, the internet should have made us more enlightened. It seems to have has the opposite effect.

Kendrick is a dangerous fool.

His approach to science is the following
1 Take a position
2. Google research titles
3. Dismiss any article where the title does not confirm the research will agree with the position adopted at stage 1
4. Any remaining research is used as evidence supporting his position (even if only article survives the cull at stage 3)

His is not research it's self selecting confirmation bias. The opposite of science.

How do know this? Because he has already been caught doing exactly that.

The article is an opinion piece based on mortality rates. It doesn't wander into other territories.

If his mortality data is wrong, he is wrong. If his mortality data is right, then this a sensible discussion to have in a level headed way; regardless of what he has said in the past.

It is an article by a dodgy individual. The individual had a proven record in filtering out anything that does not fit his narrative. So in approaching anything he chooses to present you have to question what evidence has he ignored?

This discredited individual is playing with the data that does make it into his article. Look at the scale on the y axis on every single chart. Look at what he does there and you are basically on to him.

And aside from those charts take note of the claims in the article and then look for the corresponding evidence quoted in support the claim. The second part of that is key
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on January 01, 2021, 10:20:23 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 31, 2020, 08:20:44 PM
I came across that Ivor Cummins fella on twitter a while back and was intrigued for a bit, lost interest within days

I think it would be good if Seaney, Angelo etc could explain why they haven't got anything from sources other than discredited ones?

The pseudo scientists rely on stupidity and gullibility and very often monetise that. Seaney, Angelo etc are inexhaustible in their determination not only to supply the gullibility/stupidity but to advertise this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 01, 2021, 12:48:36 PM
This thread is so f**king depressing

I don't see how schools will be opening for the foreseeable future anyway

The world has developed unfounded saviour syndrome towards 2021, but it looks like an even bigger **** of a year than 2020

https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1344774555718590464
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 01, 2021, 01:31:53 PM
Sid break that down for me
In simple terms what is the link saying exactly?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 01, 2021, 02:15:12 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 01, 2021, 01:31:53 PM
Sid break that down for me
In simple terms what is the link saying exactly?
In Britain the new variant has become very prevalent among younger people, ie. of school going age - there are still significant regional variations in this - but among older people "normal" Covid is still dominant

However if the new variant becomes dominant we will almost certainly not be able to keep it under control, because even in a lockdown situation, it has an R of 1.4-1.5  - though Gerry Killeen is now saying that he thinks it's just about possible to contain it with extreme lockdown

Schools are defo a significant site of spread - the bleedin' obvious tells us this - and certainly will be for an ultra-transmissible variant

It's thought that a more transmissible variant which has the same effects as normal Covid - which is the case with this new variant - is much more serious for the public health situation than a hypothetical more "serious" variant which has the same transmissibility - see below

So basically, batten down the hatches for the foreseeable, and there needs to be a war-like effort for vaccine manufacture and roll out

The good news is that it is thought that vaccination will significantly inhibit transmission

-----

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/12/virus-mutation-catastrophe/617531/

QuoteTo understand the difference between exponential and linear risks, consider an example put forth by Adam Kucharski, a professor at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine who focuses on mathematical analyses of infectious-disease outbreaks. Kucharski compares a 50 percent increase in virus lethality to a 50 percent increase in virus transmissibility. Take a virus reproduction rate of about 1.1 and an infection fatality risk of 0.8 percent and imagine 10,000 active infections—a plausible scenario for many European cities, as Kucharski notes. As things stand, with those numbers, we'd expect 129 deaths in a month. If the fatality rate increased by 50 percent, that would lead to 193 deaths. In contrast, a 50 percent increase in transmissibility would lead to a whopping 978 deaths in just one month—assuming, in both scenarios, a six-day infection-generation time.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 01, 2021, 02:23:05 PM
This is the nub of it

QuoteIt's clear that although the situation is dire now, there is potential for it to get much worse & given the rises we're seeing in variant frequency in other regions, if we don't act now, not only will exponential rise continue, but the rate of rise will increase.

This may also mean more cases among older age groups- while the variant is currently dominant among children, the situation is likely to get much worse if this gains dominance among adults, who will be more likely to spread to other adults & older people - which means more deaths

To illustrate this with an example-
Say 15% of a region has the variant now, and has an overall R of 1.1 (fairly realistic given the rises we're seeing in much of England where the variant isn't dominant yet.

Assuming R of 1.7 for the VOC and 1 for the standard strain, the variant would be expected to rise to >70% frequency within a month. This would mean an increase in R to 1.5 in this period from 1.1. In terms of case numbers it would be devastating.

Assuming 2000 daily cases in a region at baseline, in real terms, this would mean - 62,000 daily cases in 2 months time, vs 5,187 had the R remained constant at 1.1.

And an order of magnitude greater no. of deaths
(assuming similar age distribution which may not be the case)

All the evidence is pointing in the same direction- we need to act urgently to curb spread across *all* of the UK. Letting this variant spread is not an option. And we need to close schools, until we can make them safe, & prevent onward transmission. This is critical now.

Personally I fear the genie is probably already out of the bottle
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 01, 2021, 02:40:33 PM
Yeah- I also think genie already out of the bottle.  Basically same pattern as before really with the new variant. Starts London and spreads.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 01, 2021, 03:10:03 PM
" And we need to close schools, until we can make them safe,"

I think that the make them safe is important. There is a large variation in the setup in schools, the best are pretty safe but there are many which fall short of this because of overcrowding, the design of the building, and the general running of the school.
For instance, sending half of children to school each day might greatly improve safety and keep children's education ticking over. We need to get away from close everything/open everything, which is too crude. For instance, there is a tract of the country from Ballinasloe to Birr with few enough cases, should schools close there in a same way as a place with 5 times the rate?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 01, 2021, 03:47:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 01, 2021, 02:23:05 PM
Personally I fear the genie is probably already out of the bottle

Out of the bottle?

FFS the genie has grandkids at this point.

Even after 6 months of painful warning, the govt were so far behind the curve in Sept when this raised its head its unbelievable. Any virologist knows that mutates will happen and they can be very dangerous. SAGE had to have been advising this - so what the f**k was in place to monitor all post-mortems or a geographically representative selection of test results for mutations and keep tabs on which, if any, were gaining traction?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 01, 2021, 05:38:42 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 01, 2021, 03:47:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 01, 2021, 02:23:05 PM
Personally I fear the genie is probably already out of the bottle

Out of the bottle?

FFS the genie has grandkids at this point.

Even after 6 months of painful warning, the govt were so far behind the curve in Sept when this raised its head its unbelievable. Any virologist knows that mutates will happen and they can be very dangerous. SAGE had to have been advising this - so what the f**k was in place to monitor all post-mortems or a geographically representative selection of test results for mutations and keep tabs on which, if any, were gaining traction?

In fairness to the British (not my usual disposition) they have one of the best systems for this type of monitoring. However, the problem is that those who advocated running the health service flat out left no room for anything, like a new variant, to go wrong. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 02, 2021, 08:07:16 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 01, 2021, 05:38:42 PM
In fairness to the British (not my usual disposition) they have one of the best systems for this type of monitoring. However, the problem is that those who advocated running the health service flat out left no room for anything, like a new variant, to go wrong.

The first detection of this new variant was September, it didn't go from one case in September into underground hiding then explode into hundreds of thousands over night in December.

So what was the detection system doing? Or was it ignored by the politicians? If so, I'd expect evidence to that end to come out in the wash.

[I'd also like to see prosecution of anyone involved in brushing over it with criminal negligence.]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 02, 2021, 09:05:14 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 02, 2021, 08:07:16 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 01, 2021, 05:38:42 PM
In fairness to the British (not my usual disposition) they have one of the best systems for this type of monitoring. However, the problem is that those who advocated running the health service flat out left no room for anything, like a new variant, to go wrong.

The first detection of this new variant was September, it didn't go from one case in September into underground hiding then explode into hundreds of thousands over night in December.

So what was the detection system doing? Or was it ignored by the politicians? If so, I'd expect evidence to that end to come out in the wash.

[I'd also like to see prosecution of anyone involved in brushing over it with criminal negligence.]

More chance of Tony Blair facing retrospective action for his part in the war in Iraq.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 02, 2021, 09:32:36 AM
On legal action, just something that has come to me own door in the recent week.

Had a relative in a care home, died recently. The death was put down as Covid. The man had like 46 straight weeks with no Covid, including the week he died (basically whenever they started the testing). He was just old. That's life. The immediate family are furious. They are threatening legal action and have been told there is a mass of these type of cases attempting to hit the system.

What did we label elderly death pre covid on these certs?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 02, 2021, 03:27:51 PM
3576 cases in the north. I assume that is for two days? It does however say January 1st so maybe not? Herd immunity without the vaccine may beat herd immunity with the vaccine at current rate!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Two Hands FFS on January 02, 2021, 03:58:45 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 02, 2021, 03:27:51 PM
3576 cases in the north. I assume that is for two days? It does however say January 1st so maybe not? Herd immunity without the vaccine may beat herd immunity with the vaccine at current rate!
Yeah that's over 2 days as no figures on NY's day
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 02, 2021, 04:52:51 PM
The Atlantic has mostly been very good on covid coverage.  This one no exception.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/12/virus-mutation-catastrophe/617531/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2020/12/virus-mutation-catastrophe/617531/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 02, 2021, 05:20:39 PM
Prof Philip Nolan said over 3000 cases will be reported this evening in ROI. A big backlog to catch up on that will take 5 to 7 days to sort out he reckons.

Hospital figures will soon match or top the peak in April, the main hope now is that we don't get close to the death count of the spring.

The government are blaming the infection rise on the new UK variant of the virus but nphet having done their studies says its mostly due to people letting their guard down at Christmas.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on January 02, 2021, 05:31:17 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 02, 2021, 05:20:39 PM
Prof Philip Nolan said over 3000 cases will be reported this evening in ROI. A big backlog to catch up on that will take 5 to 7 days to sort out he reckons.

Hospital figures will soon match or top the peak in April, the main hope now is that we don't get close to the death count of the spring.

The government are blaming the infection rise on the new UK variant of the virus but nphet having done their studies says its mostly due to people letting their guard down at Christmas.

This was always going to happen - a free ball for everyone to go mad over Christmas.  It was a license to have a free-for-all over the past couple of weeks.

People still don't have the collective or personal responsibility.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 02, 2021, 05:37:57 PM
Quote from: marty34 on January 02, 2021, 05:31:17 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 02, 2021, 05:20:39 PM
Prof Philip Nolan said over 3000 cases will be reported this evening in ROI. A big backlog to catch up on that will take 5 to 7 days to sort out he reckons.

Hospital figures will soon match or top the peak in April, the main hope now is that we don't get close to the death count of the spring.

The government are blaming the infection rise on the new UK variant of the virus but nphet having done their studies says its mostly due to people letting their guard down at Christmas.

This was always going to happen - a free ball for everyone to go mad over Christmas.  It was a license to have a free-for-all over the past couple of weeks.

People still don't have the collective or personal responsibility.

Most people didn't need the permission. They'd have done it regardless of the advice. Anyway, just because they say you could mix households at Christmas, doesn't mean you should have done.

Most people will never cop on unless they struggle with the virus personally, or watch a loved one through a glass window gasping for their life.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 02, 2021, 05:43:10 PM
Quote from: marty34 on January 02, 2021, 05:31:17 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 02, 2021, 05:20:39 PM
Prof Philip Nolan said over 3000 cases will be reported this evening in ROI. A big backlog to catch up on that will take 5 to 7 days to sort out he reckons.

Hospital figures will soon match or top the peak in April, the main hope now is that we don't get close to the death count of the spring.

The government are blaming the infection rise on the new UK variant of the virus but nphet having done their studies says its mostly due to people letting their guard down at Christmas.

This was always going to happen - a free ball for everyone to go mad over Christmas.  It was a license to have a free-for-all over the past couple of weeks.

People still don't have the collective or personal responsibility.

Here in Wexford there was a big outbreak just before Christmas when a family put up a marquee for the afters of a local funeral and it turned into a big event. The priest who officiated the funeral even got infected

Then you've the pictures released by the Gardai of the shebeen in Kildare were there was the New Years Eve party.

In fairness to the government they tried to ease restrictions so people could have some sort of normal Christmas, but people took the piss and now we are in an even worse scenario than before cmas
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 05:45:18 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 02, 2021, 05:37:57 PM
Quote from: marty34 on January 02, 2021, 05:31:17 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 02, 2021, 05:20:39 PM
Prof Philip Nolan said over 3000 cases will be reported this evening in ROI. A big backlog to catch up on that will take 5 to 7 days to sort out he reckons.

Hospital figures will soon match or top the peak in April, the main hope now is that we don't get close to the death count of the spring.

The government are blaming the infection rise on the new UK variant of the virus but nphet having done their studies says its mostly due to people letting their guard down at Christmas.

This was always going to happen - a free ball for everyone to go mad over Christmas.  It was a license to have a free-for-all over the past couple of weeks.

People still don't have the collective or personal responsibility.

Most people didn't need the permission. They'd have done it regardless of the advice. Anyway, just because they say you could mix households at Christmas, doesn't mean you should have done.

A lot of those that did most damage would have acted the maggot whatever the government did.

QuoteMost people will never cop on unless they struggle with the virus personally, or watch a loved one through a glass window gasping for their life.

There are numerous stories of people giving the virus to multiple people in their own families although they knew rightly that they were at risk because they were a close contact.
In biblical times they said "Even sinners love those who love them", but even this does not even seem to be true for some people.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 06:18:24 PM
3,394 new Covid-19 cases is 26 counties with the backlog.
Frightening, but less pro rate than the 6 counties has had for the last week.
Let's hope this is a bulge, although hospital admissions will presumably continue to increase.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: MayoBuck on January 02, 2021, 06:24:14 PM
It seems as bad or worse than last March/April. I definitely know more people infected now than back then.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on January 02, 2021, 06:29:46 PM
It's worse then back then, because it's Winter, people would be getting a normal flu this time of year as it was.
The numbers today because of a backlog over Christmas period.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 02, 2021, 06:51:54 PM
Quote from: MayoBuck on January 02, 2021, 06:24:14 PM
It seems as bad or worse than last March/April. I definitely know more people infected now than back then.

I know far less this time than Oct, different waves hitting different areas at different times. Honestly I'm not even joking when I say I think we have herd immunity in work it was that bad
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2021, 07:07:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 06:18:24 PM
3,394 new Covid-19 cases is 26 counties with the backlog.
Frightening, but less pro rate than the 6 counties has had for the last week.
Let's hope this is a bulge, although hospital admissions will presumably continue to increase.

I'm glad it's less than the pro rate than the north, southerners can sleep easy tonight knowing that information

What a dick
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 07:35:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2021, 07:07:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 06:18:24 PM
3,394 new Covid-19 cases is 26 counties with the backlog.
Frightening, but less pro rate than the 6 counties has had for the last week.
Let's hope this is a bulge, although hospital admissions will presumably continue to increase.

I'm glad it's less than the pro rate than the north, southerners can sleep easy tonight knowing that information

What a dick

What is wrong with you? I pointed out a simple piece of statistics, just as others pointed out comparisons with different times of the year. You feel the need to post, contributing nothing to the discussion, abusing me. This isn't about you and whether you are glad or not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 02, 2021, 08:04:15 PM
Matt Hancock saying a million People have now been vaccinated in the uk!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 02, 2021, 08:05:36 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 02, 2021, 05:20:39 PM
Prof Philip Nolan said over 3000 cases will be reported this evening in ROI. A big backlog to catch up on that will take 5 to 7 days to sort out he reckons.

Hospital figures will soon match or top the peak in April, the main hope now is that we don't get close to the death count of the spring.

The government are blaming the infection rise on the new UK variant of the virus but nphet having done their studies says its mostly due to people letting their guard down at Christmas.
Nolan said something worrying about the South African variant, that it could be more transmissible than the UK variant and that it may evade people's immune responses more, which could have negative implications as regards the effectiveness of vaccines

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2021, 08:13:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 07:35:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2021, 07:07:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 06:18:24 PM
3,394 new Covid-19 cases is 26 counties with the backlog.
Frightening, but less pro rate than the 6 counties has had for the last week.
Let's hope this is a bulge, although hospital admissions will presumably continue to increase.

I'm glad it's less than the pro rate than the north, southerners can sleep easy tonight knowing that information

What a dick

What is wrong with you? I pointed out a simple piece of statistics, just as others pointed out comparisons with different times of the year. You feel the need to post, contributing nothing to the discussion, abusing me. This isn't about you and whether you are glad or not.

I've called out the other Dicks too, making comparisons to the north is stupid, and makes the person doing it look silly...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 02, 2021, 08:17:49 PM
Aye let's stop stating facts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 02, 2021, 08:25:37 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 02, 2021, 08:04:15 PM
Matt Hancock saying a million People have now been vaccinated in the uk!

If Matt Hancock says it it must be true lol. (Very possible but that boy is that bad if he said the sky was blue I still would have to check).

Rossfan maybe you just don't communicate well but it regularly comes across that there is some glee from you in the north doing considerably worse than the south wrt COVID. Armaghniac you do seem to lose a bit of reason and regularly dig at it too. I don't see the need.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 02, 2021, 08:17:49 PM
Aye let's stop stating facts.

Can't help yourself
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on January 02, 2021, 09:15:41 PM
Nice to see some of the inmates throwing a hissy fit, the back patting was becoming unbearable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 02, 2021, 09:21:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2021, 08:13:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 07:35:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2021, 07:07:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 06:18:24 PM
3,394 new Covid-19 cases is 26 counties with the backlog.
Frightening, but less pro rate than the 6 counties has had for the last week.
Let's hope this is a bulge, although hospital admissions will presumably continue to increase.

I'm glad it's less than the pro rate than the north, southerners can sleep easy tonight knowing that information

What a dick

What is wrong with you? I pointed out a simple piece of statistics, just as others pointed out comparisons with different times of the year. You feel the need to post, contributing nothing to the discussion, abusing me. This isn't about you and whether you are glad or not.

I've called out the other Dicks too, making comparisons to the north is stupid, and makes the person doing it look silly...
It's been the ROI Government's PR tactics from day one, look at NI we're doing so much better than them (so please don't point out our actual shortcomings). Political Deflection 101, the gullibility of some posters on here defies belief.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 02, 2021, 09:25:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2021, 07:07:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 06:18:24 PM
3,394 new Covid-19 cases is 26 counties with the backlog.
Frightening, but less pro rate than the 6 counties has had for the last week.
Let's hope this is a bulge, although hospital admissions will presumably continue to increase.

I'm glad it's less than the pro rate than the north, southerners can sleep easy tonight knowing that information

What a dick

You love the dicks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 02, 2021, 09:28:48 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 02, 2021, 09:25:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2021, 07:07:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 06:18:24 PM
3,394 new Covid-19 cases is 26 counties with the backlog.
Frightening, but less pro rate than the 6 counties has had for the last week.
Let's hope this is a bulge, although hospital admissions will presumably continue to increase.

I'm glad it's less than the pro rate than the north, southerners can sleep easy tonight knowing that information

What a dick

You love the dicks.

Where's that bucket of cold water!?   ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 09:39:49 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 02, 2021, 09:21:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2021, 08:13:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 07:35:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2021, 07:07:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 06:18:24 PM
3,394 new Covid-19 cases is 26 counties with the backlog.
Frightening, but less pro rate than the 6 counties has had for the last week.
Let's hope this is a bulge, although hospital admissions will presumably continue to increase.

I'm glad it's less than the pro rate than the north, southerners can sleep easy tonight knowing that information

What a dick

What is wrong with you? I pointed out a simple piece of statistics, just as others pointed out comparisons with different times of the year. You feel the need to post, contributing nothing to the discussion, abusing me. This isn't about you and whether you are glad or not.

I've called out the other Dicks too, making comparisons to the north is stupid, and makes the person doing it look silly...
It's been the ROI Government's PR tactics from day one, look at NI we're doing so much better than them (so please don't point out our actual shortcomings). Political Deflection 101, the gullibility of some posters on here defies belief.

Why doesn't the North call their bluff and do better then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2021, 09:46:08 PM
Do better? Ffs wise up

This is actual people, not stats/figures, getting off on how one part of the country is doing is just strange
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 09:52:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2021, 09:46:08 PM
Do better? Ffs wise up

This is actual people, not stats/figures, getting off on how one part of the country is doing is just strange

Who is "getting off" on it. Why should I, south Armagh is one of the worst parts of the country and I know several people who are ill?
I pointed it out, since in this country they produce two sets of statistics.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 02, 2021, 09:55:31 PM
You pointed it out then pointed it out again and again and again and again and again and again. (Did I say again enough times?)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2021, 09:58:09 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 02, 2021, 09:55:31 PM
You pointed it out then pointed it out again and again and again and again and again and again. (Did I say again enough times?)

Again, but hey as he's said, the Armagh ones are just criminal!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 10:10:09 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 02, 2021, 09:55:31 PM
You pointed it out then pointed it out again and again and again and again and again and again. (Did I say again enough times?)

That would probably be because the data changes every day, sometimes by quite a lot.
My failing, in the eyes of many here, is that I look at the 32 counties. My apologies for being Irish.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 02, 2021, 10:10:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 09:39:49 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 02, 2021, 09:21:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2021, 08:13:57 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 07:35:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2021, 07:07:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 06:18:24 PM
3,394 new Covid-19 cases is 26 counties with the backlog.
Frightening, but less pro rate than the 6 counties has had for the last week.
Let's hope this is a bulge, although hospital admissions will presumably continue to increase.

I'm glad it's less than the pro rate than the north, southerners can sleep easy tonight knowing that information

What a dick

What is wrong with you? I pointed out a simple piece of statistics, just as others pointed out comparisons with different times of the year. You feel the need to post, contributing nothing to the discussion, abusing me. This isn't about you and whether you are glad or not.

I've called out the other Dicks too, making comparisons to the north is stupid, and makes the person doing it look silly...
It's been the ROI Government's PR tactics from day one, look at NI we're doing so much better than them (so please don't point out our actual shortcomings). Political Deflection 101, the gullibility of some posters on here defies belief.

Why doesn't the North call their bluff and do better then?
Such a spake, holy Jesus.

You unfailingly trot out the ROI Government line, you show no independent or critical thinking whatsoever, it is embarrassing and it's not as tho it's clear if you support FF or FG it's just the Government line all the time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2021, 10:16:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 10:10:09 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 02, 2021, 09:55:31 PM
You pointed it out then pointed it out again and again and again and again and again and again. (Did I say again enough times?)

That would probably be because the data changes every day, sometimes by quite a lot.
My failing, in the eyes of many here, is that I look at the 32 counties. My apologies for being Irish.

You don't give a f**k...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 10:17:11 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 02, 2021, 10:10:36 PM
You unfailingly trot out the ROI Government line, you show no independent or critical thinking whatsoever, it is embarrassing and it's not as tho it's clear if you support FF or FG it's just the Government line all the time.

Bollix. I have commented on their shortcomings when required. As for FG/FF, what proposals exist from other parties that I have opposed?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2021, 10:16:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 10:10:09 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 02, 2021, 09:55:31 PM
You pointed it out then pointed it out again and again and again and again and again and again. (Did I say again enough times?)

That would probably be because the data changes every day, sometimes by quite a lot.
My failing, in the eyes of many here, is that I look at the 32 counties. My apologies for being Irish.

You don't give a f**k...

I don't think you'll be replacing Oscar Wilde for witty repartee.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 02, 2021, 10:27:58 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 10:10:09 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 02, 2021, 09:55:31 PM
You pointed it out then pointed it out again and again and again and again and again and again. (Did I say again enough times?)

That would probably be because the data changes every day, sometimes by quite a lot.
My failing, in the eyes of many here, is that I look at the 32 counties. My apologies for being Irish.

The bigger illustration of your failing was when you were told Letterkenny at a point in time had higher cases than Derry. You then asked for proof as you didn't believe it. When you were told that it was in the Irish news you seemed to be ok with taking that as proof fair enough however then proceeded to say it wouldn't be Letterkenny's fault it would be the north's fault as the north didn't apply or follow rules as well. I can't remember some verbatim what you said but basically some completely unfounded nonsense to suggest that even though there was nothing to point to it it was the north's fault.

Btw that reply is a crock of shit. "My apologies for being Irish". Not quite as bad as why doesn't the north call their bluff and do better. Yeah we'll show you pesky southerners and get zero COVID that will shut you up ::)

You continually dig at the north. Continually. Not just with objective data as the above proved.

Btw you come across as a reasonable person who I have nothing against but your incessant north stuff is a bit annoying... you are a bit like another poster here who's very reasonable except when it comes to sf. Reasonable until that topic comes up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 02, 2021, 10:29:46 PM
Sounds like covid is an STD the amount of dicks and bollocks being sounded about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 11:28:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 02, 2021, 10:27:58 PM
The bigger illustration of your failing was when you were told Letterkenny at a point in time had higher cases than Derry. You then asked for proof as you didn't believe it. When you were told that it was in the Irish news you seemed to be ok with taking that as proof fair enough however then proceeded to say it wouldn't be Letterkenny's fault it would be the north's fault as the north didn't apply or follow rules as well. I can't remember some verbatim what you said but basically some completely unfounded nonsense to suggest that even though there was nothing to point to it it was the north's fault.

I didn't say that north didn't apply or follow rules as well, although this may be true. I said that the North had different rules and things were open there that were not open in Letterkenny, and this undermined the closure of things in Letterkenny. This is entirely an objective view and several GPs in Donegal said the same thing.

QuoteBtw that reply is a crock of shit. "My apologies for being Irish". Not quite as bad as why doesn't the north call their bluff and do better. Yeah we'll show you pesky southerners and get zero COVID that will shut you up ::)

You continually dig at the north. Continually. Not just with objective data as the above proved.

I do believe the North should be abolished and that it has lasted 100 years too long. I make no secret of this.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 03, 2021, 12:09:52 AM
I live in border area, i be in both jurisdictions daily, what I seen from start was better direction from govt in South than we got up here and also seemingly better compliance by people , but in recent weeks there have been some astoundingly stupid and tragic outbreaks in Muff,burnfoot and other parts of Inishowen which points to a complacency that can creep in everywhere and which can cause havoc.
I don't think it helps to compare stats here for political point scoring but I think it's fair to point to where one govt may have taken wiser action
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 03, 2021, 12:18:15 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 11:28:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 02, 2021, 10:27:58 PM
The bigger illustration of your failing was when you were told Letterkenny at a point in time had higher cases than Derry. You then asked for proof as you didn't believe it. When you were told that it was in the Irish news you seemed to be ok with taking that as proof fair enough however then proceeded to say it wouldn't be Letterkenny's fault it would be the north's fault as the north didn't apply or follow rules as well. I can't remember some verbatim what you said but basically some completely unfounded nonsense to suggest that even though there was nothing to point to it it was the north's fault.

I didn't say that north didn't apply or follow rules as well, although this may be true. I said that the North had different rules and things were open there that were not open in Letterkenny, and this undermined the closure of things in Letterkenny. This is entirely an objective view and several GPs in Donegal said the same thing.

QuoteBtw that reply is a crock of shit. "My apologies for being Irish". Not quite as bad as why doesn't the north call their bluff and do better. Yeah we'll show you pesky southerners and get zero COVID that will shut you up ::)

You continually dig at the north. Continually. Not just with objective data as the above proved.

I do believe the North should be abolished and that it has lasted 100 years too long. I make no secret of this.
Yeah, couldn't have been the Schools, factories whatever in Letterkenny area, it was the daytrippers from the black north. Ministry of information foot soldier.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 03, 2021, 12:23:03 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 03, 2021, 12:09:52 AM
I live in border area, i be in both jurisdictions daily, what I seen from start was better direction from govt in South than we got up here and also seemingly better compliance by people , but in recent weeks there have been some astoundingly stupid and tragic outbreaks in Muff,burnfoot and other parts of Inishowen which points to a complacency that can creep in everywhere and which can cause havoc.
I don't think it helps to compare stats here for political point scoring but I think it's fair to point to where one govt may have taken wiser action
The last point has never been in doubt, its the continual pushing of the ROI Government line thats being called out, the obvious continual Gorverment deflection to NI and the buying of it ALL the time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 03, 2021, 01:16:24 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 03, 2021, 12:18:15 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 02, 2021, 11:28:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 02, 2021, 10:27:58 PM
The bigger illustration of your failing was when you were told Letterkenny at a point in time had higher cases than Derry. You then asked for proof as you didn't believe it. When you were told that it was in the Irish news you seemed to be ok with taking that as proof fair enough however then proceeded to say it wouldn't be Letterkenny's fault it would be the north's fault as the north didn't apply or follow rules as well. I can't remember some verbatim what you said but basically some completely unfounded nonsense to suggest that even though there was nothing to point to it it was the north's fault.

I didn't say that north didn't apply or follow rules as well, although this may be true. I said that the North had different rules and things were open there that were not open in Letterkenny, and this undermined the closure of things in Letterkenny. This is entirely an objective view and several GPs in Donegal said the same thing.

QuoteBtw that reply is a crock of shit. "My apologies for being Irish". Not quite as bad as why doesn't the north call their bluff and do better. Yeah we'll show you pesky southerners and get zero COVID that will shut you up ::)

You continually dig at the north. Continually. Not just with objective data as the above proved.

I do believe the North should be abolished and that it has lasted 100 years too long. I make no secret of this.
Yeah, couldn't have been the Schools, factories whatever in Letterkenny area, it was the daytrippers from the black north. Ministry of information foot soldier.

I suggested that it was day trippers to the black North, there wasn't any particular attraction to bring day trippers to Letterkenny.

Quote from: bennydorano on January 03, 2021, 12:23:03 AM
The last point has never been in doubt, its the continual pushing of the ROI Government line thats being called out, the obvious continual Gorverment deflection to NI and the buying of it ALL the time.

Whatever about me, I don't think the 26 county government has especially drawn attention to NI, or not any more than anything else anyway, unless you count sending the ambulances. The data speaks for itself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 03, 2021, 08:22:45 AM
I don't either but I do think you have whether you mean to or not. You are not as objective as you think you are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 03, 2021, 11:01:46 AM
Calling him a "dick" for stating a fact  is still very much out of order.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 03, 2021, 11:20:27 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 03, 2021, 11:01:46 AM
Calling him a "dick" for stating a fact  is still very much out of order.

Explain why you need to bring in the relevance of the north has x cases that would relate to x cases in the south.... every time!! Very bizarre or maybe you think we couldn't work that out.

Is it because the north's government has fucked up along with the rest of the uk in terms of Covid lockdowns and we need to hear how good the South is? Does this make you feel better?

Hear are some simple facts going forward, the muppets on the hill have made a pigs ear out of this, the public have made a pigs ear out of it also. You reminding the board on the daily stats of the difference means what?


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 03, 2021, 11:22:35 AM
The stupid things people argue about...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 03, 2021, 11:35:54 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 03, 2021, 11:22:35 AM
The stupid things people argue about...
;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 03, 2021, 11:44:49 AM
https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1345695150165663745

Sir John Bell, Regius Professor of Medicine at
@UniofOxford
says the South African variant of coronavirus is more worrying than the Kent one "by some margin". He added a different vaccine could probably be made in 4-6 weeks if needed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 03, 2021, 12:01:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 03, 2021, 11:20:27 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 03, 2021, 11:01:46 AM
Calling him a "dick" for stating a fact  is still very much out of order.

Explain why you need to bring in the relevance of the north has x cases that would relate to x cases in the south.... every time!! Very bizarre or maybe you think we couldn't work that out.

Is it because the north's government has fucked up along with the rest of the uk in terms of Covid lockdowns and we need to hear how good the South is? Does this make you feel better?

Hear are some simple facts going forward, the muppets on the hill have made a pigs ear out of this, the public have made a pigs ear out of it also. You reminding the board on the daily stats of the difference means what?
Do you get out the wrong side of the bed every fkn morning?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 03, 2021, 12:01:29 PM
You'd weep listening to the Brendan O'Connor radio show

The programme invites Mr. Professional Right-Wing Reaction Bait Guy on to generate reaction

Mr. Professional Right-Wing Reaction Bait Guy compares Covid to riding a motorbike

He utters intelligence-insulting, reality-inverting inanities about how letting Covid rip would actually be societal solidarity

Reaction is generated

Mr. Professional Right-Wing Reaction Bait Guy then claims he's being victimised by replies to him on Twitter

The never ending circle of right-wing grift continues
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on January 03, 2021, 12:50:19 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 02, 2021, 10:29:46 PM
Sounds like covid is an STD the amount of dicks and bollocks being sounded about.

Whenever you claim to have answered questions and provided evidence is it posts like these that you are referring to?

The people around you must be so proud
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 03, 2021, 06:06:52 PM
4,962 confirmed cases for ROI today, not that much of surprise with a big backlog that needed to be added in.

The weekly numbers

Cases 15759 ( 9137 more cases than last week)
Reported deaths 57 (11 more than last week)

In hospital 685 ( 361 more than last week)
In ICU 62 (36 more than a week ago)

Grim reading, hopefully by next Sunday the figures will at least stabilise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 03, 2021, 07:51:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 03, 2021, 11:01:46 AM
Calling him a "dick" for stating a fact  is still very much out of order.

It's all he has, sums him up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 03, 2021, 07:52:32 PM
Quote from: LCohen on January 03, 2021, 12:50:19 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 02, 2021, 10:29:46 PM
Sounds like covid is an STD the amount of dicks and bollocks being sounded about.

Whenever you claim to have answered questions and provided evidence is it posts like these that you are referring to?

The people around you must be so proud

They are, you defending your number one fan, you being so much more intelligent than the rest of us. ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 12:59:07 PM
We are not going to know the full impact of this until it's all over.

That may be a year or two down the line.

My concern focuses on whether lockdown and particularly rolling lockdowns where you are dipping in and out of (telling businesses to shut and open and shut and open are going to cause serious long term damage to the economy and employment - high unemployment has seriously negative societal and wellbeing factors).

There's a lot of people very entrenched with their head in the sand. Cases are through the roof at the minute, deaths are rising but we do know the main demograph it's impacting, we do know the median age of death is above the median life expectancy, we do know the 90%+ proportion that already have existing underlying healthcare problems, we do know that deaths due to Covid are overstated. There's no doubt on any of the previous factors, they are widely accepted by every department that handles this. So is it a case that the measures we take are to save people months of their lives - already probably crippled with underlying health issues?

And how do we then balance that out with the serious consequences of lockdown on the economy, people's employment prospects, the ability of people to provide for our families, the mental health of people, those who are vulnerable, in abusive relationships, addiction problems, people with disabilities and need constant care and support services, the education and social development of children, the impact it has on people who are alone and isolated.

I'd be extremely worried about the covid tunnel vision governments around the world are obsessed with.

We seem to have thrown all our eggs into this vaccine basket, we know nothing about it yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 04, 2021, 01:54:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 12:59:07 PM
We are not going to know the full impact of this until it's all over.

That may be a year or two down the line.

My concern focuses on whether lockdown and particularly rolling lockdowns where you are dipping in and out of (telling businesses to shut and open and shut and open are going to cause serious long term damage to the economy and employment - high unemployment has seriously negative societal and wellbeing factors).

There's a lot of people very entrenched with their head in the sand. Cases are through the roof at the minute, deaths are rising but we do know the main demograph it's impacting, we do know the median age of death is above the median life expectancy, we do know the 90%+ proportion that already have existing underlying healthcare problems, we do know that deaths due to Covid are overstated. There's no doubt on any of the previous factors, they are widely accepted by every department that handles this. So is it a case that the measures we take are to save people months of their lives - already probably crippled with underlying health issues?

And how do we then balance that out with the serious consequences of lockdown on the economy, people's employment prospects, the ability of people to provide for our families, the mental health of people, those who are vulnerable, in abusive relationships, addiction problems, people with disabilities and need constant care and support services, the education and social development of children, the impact it has on people who are alone and isolated.

I'd be extremely worried about the covid tunnel vision governments around the world are obsessed with.

We seem to have thrown all our eggs into this vaccine basket, we know nothing about it yet.

As opposed to what other basket?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on January 04, 2021, 02:09:23 PM
The UK (and Ireland) have completely fucked things up.

Just look at the pictures from New Year celebrations around the world - to see how an island could have handled a pandemic
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 02:14:35 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 04, 2021, 01:54:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 12:59:07 PM
We are not going to know the full impact of this until it's all over.

That may be a year or two down the line.

My concern focuses on whether lockdown and particularly rolling lockdowns where you are dipping in and out of (telling businesses to shut and open and shut and open are going to cause serious long term damage to the economy and employment - high unemployment has seriously negative societal and wellbeing factors).

There's a lot of people very entrenched with their head in the sand. Cases are through the roof at the minute, deaths are rising but we do know the main demograph it's impacting, we do know the median age of death is above the median life expectancy, we do know the 90%+ proportion that already have existing underlying healthcare problems, we do know that deaths due to Covid are overstated. There's no doubt on any of the previous factors, they are widely accepted by every department that handles this. So is it a case that the measures we take are to save people months of their lives - already probably crippled with underlying health issues?

And how do we then balance that out with the serious consequences of lockdown on the economy, people's employment prospects, the ability of people to provide for our families, the mental health of people, those who are vulnerable, in abusive relationships, addiction problems, people with disabilities and need constant care and support services, the education and social development of children, the impact it has on people who are alone and isolated.

I'd be extremely worried about the covid tunnel vision governments around the world are obsessed with.

We seem to have thrown all our eggs into this vaccine basket, we know nothing about it yet.

As opposed to what other basket?

Living with the virus. Reasonable restrictive measures which we had in the summer months until such time as the virus has ran its course.

What I'd like to see in the next few months is among all the panic and hysteria at present - what the excess deaths are like in comparison to a sever winter flu season that we have accepted without a bone of contention every single year.

Have we lost the run of ourselves over a 10% rise in deaths, 90% who already had serious underlying health conditions?

We have to be realistic and practical about this. There is a point when the cure causes more destruction and chaos than the problem and there's a lot of people too entrenched to even countenance this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 04, 2021, 02:15:26 PM
There are very few places in the world haven't f**ked it up it seems. The problem then becomes what do they do with borders etc when everyone else is so bad. Any opening will have the potential to bring it right back in.

My boss in work said to me early on(when some would have considered this propagandist nonsense) that she thought the only way out was a vaccine. It is our only way out.

Lockdowns clearly aren't good. The biggest thing for me is that the rolling nature of them will have crippled businesses and that is where mistakes have been made. It would honestly have not been as bad for a lot of businesses to just have stayed shut the whole time. I don't know how lockdowns in general could have been avoided.

Opening up for christmas was basically insanity. It's going to be a horrendous month :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 02:17:13 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 04, 2021, 02:09:23 PM
The UK (and Ireland) have completely fucked things up.

Just look at the pictures from New Year celebrations around the world - to see how an island could have handled a pandemic

The Free State was giving itself a pat on the back not so long ago for best in Europe.

It's all panic and hysteria at the minute though.

Loads of cases but let's see how it compares to a bad winter flu season in terms of excess deaths.

Has any country had death rates per cases in line with the so called first wave?

What do we know about immunity from the science community yet? I'd say it's a fair guess that up to 10-15%+ of the O6 could have had this so far?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tubberman on January 04, 2021, 02:20:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 02:14:35 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 04, 2021, 01:54:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 12:59:07 PM
We are not going to know the full impact of this until it's all over.

That may be a year or two down the line.

My concern focuses on whether lockdown and particularly rolling lockdowns where you are dipping in and out of (telling businesses to shut and open and shut and open are going to cause serious long term damage to the economy and employment - high unemployment has seriously negative societal and wellbeing factors).

There's a lot of people very entrenched with their head in the sand. Cases are through the roof at the minute, deaths are rising but we do know the main demograph it's impacting, we do know the median age of death is above the median life expectancy, we do know the 90%+ proportion that already have existing underlying healthcare problems, we do know that deaths due to Covid are overstated. There's no doubt on any of the previous factors, they are widely accepted by every department that handles this. So is it a case that the measures we take are to save people months of their lives - already probably crippled with underlying health issues?

And how do we then balance that out with the serious consequences of lockdown on the economy, people's employment prospects, the ability of people to provide for our families, the mental health of people, those who are vulnerable, in abusive relationships, addiction problems, people with disabilities and need constant care and support services, the education and social development of children, the impact it has on people who are alone and isolated.

I'd be extremely worried about the covid tunnel vision governments around the world are obsessed with.

We seem to have thrown all our eggs into this vaccine basket, we know nothing about it yet.

As opposed to what other basket?

Living with the virus. Reasonable restrictive measures which we had in the summer months until such time as the virus has ran its course.

What I'd like to see in the next few months is among all the panic and hysteria at present - what the excess deaths are like in comparison to a sever winter flu season that we have accepted without a bone of contention every single year.

Have we lost the run of ourselves over a 10% rise in deaths, 90% who already had serious underlying health conditions?

We have to be realistic and practical about this. There is a point when the cure causes more destruction and chaos than the problem and there's a lot of people too entrenched to even countenance this.

Until it's run it's course!? You mean heard immunity then? Do you know how long that would take with restrictions in place?
I'll give you a clue - many, many years.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on January 04, 2021, 02:24:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 02:17:13 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 04, 2021, 02:09:23 PM
The UK (and Ireland) have completely fucked things up.

Just look at the pictures from New Year celebrations around the world - to see how an island could have handled a pandemic

The Free State was giving itself a pat on the back not so long ago for best in Europe.

It's all panic and hysteria at the minute though.

Loads of cases but let's see how it compares to a bad winter flu season in terms of excess deaths.

Has any country had death rates per cases in line with the so called first wave?

What do we know about immunity from the science community yet? I'd say it's a fair guess that up to 10-15%+ of the O6 could have had this so far?

AFAIK the immunity only lasts for x amount of months - if that is true then its vaccine or nothing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on January 04, 2021, 02:27:23 PM
Can't seem to find a figure of how many in the UK have had the vaccine so far, anyone know? It was 940,000 as of the 27th of December.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 02:28:16 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 04, 2021, 02:20:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 02:14:35 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 04, 2021, 01:54:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 12:59:07 PM
We are not going to know the full impact of this until it's all over.

That may be a year or two down the line.

My concern focuses on whether lockdown and particularly rolling lockdowns where you are dipping in and out of (telling businesses to shut and open and shut and open are going to cause serious long term damage to the economy and employment - high unemployment has seriously negative societal and wellbeing factors).

There's a lot of people very entrenched with their head in the sand. Cases are through the roof at the minute, deaths are rising but we do know the main demograph it's impacting, we do know the median age of death is above the median life expectancy, we do know the 90%+ proportion that already have existing underlying healthcare problems, we do know that deaths due to Covid are overstated. There's no doubt on any of the previous factors, they are widely accepted by every department that handles this. So is it a case that the measures we take are to save people months of their lives - already probably crippled with underlying health issues?

And how do we then balance that out with the serious consequences of lockdown on the economy, people's employment prospects, the ability of people to provide for our families, the mental health of people, those who are vulnerable, in abusive relationships, addiction problems, people with disabilities and need constant care and support services, the education and social development of children, the impact it has on people who are alone and isolated.

I'd be extremely worried about the covid tunnel vision governments around the world are obsessed with.

We seem to have thrown all our eggs into this vaccine basket, we know nothing about it yet.

As opposed to what other basket?

Living with the virus. Reasonable restrictive measures which we had in the summer months until such time as the virus has ran its course.

What I'd like to see in the next few months is among all the panic and hysteria at present - what the excess deaths are like in comparison to a sever winter flu season that we have accepted without a bone of contention every single year.

Have we lost the run of ourselves over a 10% rise in deaths, 90% who already had serious underlying health conditions?

We have to be realistic and practical about this. There is a point when the cure causes more destruction and chaos than the problem and there's a lot of people too entrenched to even countenance this.

Until it's run it's course!? You mean heard immunity then? Do you know how long that would take with restrictions in place?
I'll give you a clue - many, many years.

So you're saying rolling lockdowns for many, many, many, many, many, many, many years if the vaccine is a failure?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 04, 2021, 02:33:53 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on January 04, 2021, 02:27:23 PM
Can't seem to find a figure of how many in the UK have had the vaccine so far, anyone know? It was 940,000 as of the 27th of December.

Oxford vaccines to arrive with GP practices today week. Numbers should ramp up very quickly then. Cannot come quickly enough. Jan is going to be so tough on a lot of folk.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on January 04, 2021, 02:37:03 PM
Scotland effectively locking down from midnight
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tubberman on January 04, 2021, 02:41:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 02:28:16 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 04, 2021, 02:20:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 02:14:35 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 04, 2021, 01:54:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 12:59:07 PM
We are not going to know the full impact of this until it's all over.

That may be a year or two down the line.

My concern focuses on whether lockdown and particularly rolling lockdowns where you are dipping in and out of (telling businesses to shut and open and shut and open are going to cause serious long term damage to the economy and employment - high unemployment has seriously negative societal and wellbeing factors).

There's a lot of people very entrenched with their head in the sand. Cases are through the roof at the minute, deaths are rising but we do know the main demograph it's impacting, we do know the median age of death is above the median life expectancy, we do know the 90%+ proportion that already have existing underlying healthcare problems, we do know that deaths due to Covid are overstated. There's no doubt on any of the previous factors, they are widely accepted by every department that handles this. So is it a case that the measures we take are to save people months of their lives - already probably crippled with underlying health issues?

And how do we then balance that out with the serious consequences of lockdown on the economy, people's employment prospects, the ability of people to provide for our families, the mental health of people, those who are vulnerable, in abusive relationships, addiction problems, people with disabilities and need constant care and support services, the education and social development of children, the impact it has on people who are alone and isolated.

I'd be extremely worried about the covid tunnel vision governments around the world are obsessed with.

We seem to have thrown all our eggs into this vaccine basket, we know nothing about it yet.

As opposed to what other basket?

Living with the virus. Reasonable restrictive measures which we had in the summer months until such time as the virus has ran its course.

What I'd like to see in the next few months is among all the panic and hysteria at present - what the excess deaths are like in comparison to a sever winter flu season that we have accepted without a bone of contention every single year.

Have we lost the run of ourselves over a 10% rise in deaths, 90% who already had serious underlying health conditions?

We have to be realistic and practical about this. There is a point when the cure causes more destruction and chaos than the problem and there's a lot of people too entrenched to even countenance this.

Until it's run it's course!? You mean heard immunity then? Do you know how long that would take with restrictions in place?
I'll give you a clue - many, many years.

So you're saying rolling lockdowns for many, many, many, many, many, many, many years if the vaccine is a failure?

Or let it kill the old and vulnerable and it will be much quicker.
But I'd prefer not to live in a society that sees that as preferable to protecting those groups until they're vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:47:20 PM
I think we should just go down the Logan Run approach.. anyone over the age of 50 (think it was 25 in the film) just just be left to fend for themselves or put in the gas chamber
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 02:47:26 PM
So kill the young instead, kill their spirts, there wellbeing, their sense of belonging, of achieving, of living a life they are just starting, to protect a few who are at their end of life!  The lockdowns are doing more damage than the virus, and they are so inept and so useless we will still be in lockdown this time next year, I don't see the BBC reporting how many died of suicide each day, how many died from poverty, from abuse from missed hospital appointments!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 04, 2021, 02:53:06 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 02:47:26 PM
So kill the young instead, kill their spirts, there wellbeing, their sense of belonging, of achieving, of living a life they are just starting, to protect a few who are at their end of life!  The lockdowns are doing more damage than the virus, and they are so inept and so useless we will still be in lockdown this time next year, I don't see the BBC reporting how many died of suicide each day, how many died from poverty, from abuse from missed hospital appointments!

::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tubberman on January 04, 2021, 02:54:37 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 02:47:26 PM
So kill the young instead, kill their spirts, there wellbeing, their sense of belonging, of achieving, of living a life they are just starting, to protect a few who are at their end of life!  The lockdowns are doing more damage than the virus, and they are so inept and so useless we will still be in lockdown this time next year, I don't see the BBC reporting how many died of suicide each day, how many died from poverty, from abuse from missed hospital appointments!

I have a friend who is immunocompromised. She's 41.
I have a niece with a heart condition. She's 6.
Time to write them off?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 02:58:01 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 04, 2021, 02:53:06 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 02:47:26 PM
So kill the young instead, kill their spirts, there wellbeing, their sense of belonging, of achieving, of living a life they are just starting, to protect a few who are at their end of life!  The lockdowns are doing more damage than the virus, and they are so inept and so useless we will still be in lockdown this time next year, I don't see the BBC reporting how many died of suicide each day, how many died from poverty, from abuse from missed hospital appointments!

::)

Head in sand!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 02:58:55 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 04, 2021, 02:54:37 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 02:47:26 PM
So kill the young instead, kill their spirts, there wellbeing, their sense of belonging, of achieving, of living a life they are just starting, to protect a few who are at their end of life!  The lockdowns are doing more damage than the virus, and they are so inept and so useless we will still be in lockdown this time next year, I don't see the BBC reporting how many died of suicide each day, how many died from poverty, from abuse from missed hospital appointments!

I have a friend who is immunocompromised. She's 41.
I have a niece with a heart condition. She's 6.
Time to write them off?

Who said write them off?  What about the people in society I mentioned, write them off?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo

Or just regard the plight of many vulnerable groupings, disabled people, people who live alone, people in abusive relationships, people with health conditions not associated with Covid, the education of kids, people who lose their jobs, businesses that are closed down?

Ignore those and put the full focus on Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:03:55 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 04, 2021, 02:41:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 02:28:16 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 04, 2021, 02:20:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 02:14:35 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 04, 2021, 01:54:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 12:59:07 PM
We are not going to know the full impact of this until it's all over.

That may be a year or two down the line.

My concern focuses on whether lockdown and particularly rolling lockdowns where you are dipping in and out of (telling businesses to shut and open and shut and open are going to cause serious long term damage to the economy and employment - high unemployment has seriously negative societal and wellbeing factors).

There's a lot of people very entrenched with their head in the sand. Cases are through the roof at the minute, deaths are rising but we do know the main demograph it's impacting, we do know the median age of death is above the median life expectancy, we do know the 90%+ proportion that already have existing underlying healthcare problems, we do know that deaths due to Covid are overstated. There's no doubt on any of the previous factors, they are widely accepted by every department that handles this. So is it a case that the measures we take are to save people months of their lives - already probably crippled with underlying health issues?

And how do we then balance that out with the serious consequences of lockdown on the economy, people's employment prospects, the ability of people to provide for our families, the mental health of people, those who are vulnerable, in abusive relationships, addiction problems, people with disabilities and need constant care and support services, the education and social development of children, the impact it has on people who are alone and isolated.

I'd be extremely worried about the covid tunnel vision governments around the world are obsessed with.

We seem to have thrown all our eggs into this vaccine basket, we know nothing about it yet.

As opposed to what other basket?

Living with the virus. Reasonable restrictive measures which we had in the summer months until such time as the virus has ran its course.

What I'd like to see in the next few months is among all the panic and hysteria at present - what the excess deaths are like in comparison to a sever winter flu season that we have accepted without a bone of contention every single year.

Have we lost the run of ourselves over a 10% rise in deaths, 90% who already had serious underlying health conditions?

We have to be realistic and practical about this. There is a point when the cure causes more destruction and chaos than the problem and there's a lot of people too entrenched to even countenance this.

Until it's run it's course!? You mean heard immunity then? Do you know how long that would take with restrictions in place?
I'll give you a clue - many, many years.

So you're saying rolling lockdowns for many, many, many, many, many, many, many years if the vaccine is a failure?

Or let it kill the old and vulnerable and it will be much quicker.
But I'd prefer not to live in a society that sees that as preferable to protecting those groups until they're vaccinated.

Covid tunnel vision.

You don't have any interest in those with need of access to support services - people with mental health problems, people in abusive relationships, recovering addicts, people who need the support of group therapies and counselors, people who live alone and their only means of social interaction and freedom taken from them?

Big two fingers to them right?

It's quite disgusting the way a certain cohort of posters try and react to any sort of reasoned and rounded point I put across. You don't countenance at all that lockdown restrictions have absolutely catastrophic implications for certain vulnerable groupings in society, do you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 03:06:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo

Or just regard the plight of many vulnerable groupings, disabled people, people who live alone, people in abusive relationships, people with health conditions not associated with Covid, the education of kids, people who lose their jobs, businesses that are closed down?

Ignore those and put the full focus on Covid?

Bigfella will be rolling the eyes - some numpties on here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 04, 2021, 03:07:25 PM
That's the wisest thing you have said yet Seaney.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 04, 2021, 03:10:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:47:20 PM
I think we should just go down the Logan Run approach.. anyone over the age of 50 (think it was 25 in the film) just just be left to fend for themselves or put in the gas chamber

We do, as a whole have to start asking when is the time to return to 'normality' in fairness.

1,300 odd deaths in NI. By end of Jan (or before) we will have vaccinated all of the over 80s including GPs / Staff which is apparently 82,000 + people (Guess which gets far more 'media time').

We are in lockdowns to protect the elderly and the NHS. Surely, this latest lockdown of 6 weeks must be the last? I think as a people we deserve to be told the expectations, numbers wise for what will get us out of this lockdown hell since they have no problem telling us the figures that get us into it.

I'm obviously not a massive fan of lockdowns....but, like the majority of the public I follow the guidelines for the good of others. I just don't have absolutely any belief whatsoever the politicians here will give us anything at the end of January.

Personally I'm pretty much at the end of my interest in it after my previous post regarding a far enough out relative that was put down as a covid death after months and months of negatives prior. Frankly it is a disgrace that they can do things like that, that bulks up numbers for Covid. Again, the man was just old, his time had come. No Covid, nothing.

We do have a right to start asking when the end will be in sight, I would obviously just try and phrase it a bit better than "let it rip".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 03:11:06 PM
Bless, so lockdowns for the foreseeable future to protect a few and destroy the many, even a child could see how it's wrong!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 04, 2021, 03:13:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo

Or just regard the plight of many vulnerable groupings, disabled people, people who live alone, people in abusive relationships, people with health conditions not associated with Covid, the education of kids, people who lose their jobs, businesses that are closed down?

Ignore those and put the full focus on Covid?

What exactly was being done for people in abusive relationships that isn't being done now?

Sweden tried the herd immunity approach and it has backfired spectacularly. Even the King of Sweden has admitted they got it wrong. Rolling lockdowns are the only option available to governments around the world unfortunately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 03:14:03 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 04, 2021, 03:10:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:47:20 PM
I think we should just go down the Logan Run approach.. anyone over the age of 50 (think it was 25 in the film) just just be left to fend for themselves or put in the gas chamber

We do, as a whole have to start asking when is the time to return to 'normality' in fairness.

1,300 odd deaths in NI. By end of Jan (or before) we will have vaccinated all of the over 80s including GPs / Staff which is apparently 82,000 + people (Guess which gets far more 'media time').

We are in lockdowns to protect the elderly and the NHS. Surely, this latest lockdown of 6 weeks must be the last? I think as a people we deserve to be told the expectations, numbers wise for what will get us out of this lockdown hell since they have no problem telling us the figures that get us into it.

I'm obviously not a massive fan of lockdowns....but, like the majority of the public I follow the guidelines for the good of others. I just don't have absolutely any belief whatsoever the politicians here will give us anything at the end of January.

Personally I'm pretty much at the end of my interest in it after my previous post regarding a far enough out relative that was put down as a covid death after months and months of negatives prior. Frankly it is a disgrace that they can do things like that, that bulks up numbers for Covid. Again, the man was just old, his time had come. No Covid, nothing.

We do have a right to start asking when the end will be in sight, I would obviously just try and phrase it a bit better than "let it rip".

Had the same experience, it's wrong, it's immoral, it's political, it's a game at this stage, it's another slap in the face of the bereaved on top of no wake and 25 at the funeral.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 03:15:19 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 04, 2021, 03:13:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo

Or just regard the plight of many vulnerable groupings, disabled people, people who live alone, people in abusive relationships, people with health conditions not associated with Covid, the education of kids, people who lose their jobs, businesses that are closed down?

Ignore those and put the full focus on Covid?

What exactly was being done for people in abusive relationships that isn't being done now?

Sweden tried the herd immunity approach and it has backfired spectacularly. Even the King of Sweden has admitted they got it wrong. Rolling lockdowns are the only option available to governments around the world unfortunately.

Their abuser wasn't f**king locked up with them 24/7 - not the brightest spark are you!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:18:58 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 04, 2021, 03:10:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:47:20 PM
I think we should just go down the Logan Run approach.. anyone over the age of 50 (think it was 25 in the film) just just be left to fend for themselves or put in the gas chamber

We do, as a whole have to start asking when is the time to return to 'normality' in fairness.

1,300 odd deaths in NI. By end of Jan (or before) we will have vaccinated all of the over 80s including GPs / Staff which is apparently 82,000 + people (Guess which gets far more 'media time').

We are in lockdowns to protect the elderly and the NHS. Surely, this latest lockdown of 6 weeks must be the last? I think as a people we deserve to be told the expectations, numbers wise for what will get us out of this lockdown hell since they have no problem telling us the figures that get us into it.

I'm obviously not a massive fan of lockdowns....but, like the majority of the public I follow the guidelines for the good of others. I just don't have absolutely any belief whatsoever the politicians here will give us anything at the end of January.

Personally I'm pretty much at the end of my interest in it after my previous post regarding a far enough out relative that was put down as a covid death after months and months of negatives prior. Frankly it is a disgrace that they can do things like that, that bulks up numbers for Covid. Again, the man was just old, his time had come. No Covid, nothing.

We do have a right to start asking when the end will be in sight, I would obviously just try and phrase it a bit better than "let it rip".

Good post but be prepared for the type of hysterical backlash that you saw from Milltown above.

Apart from the Mar-Apr death rates, excess deaths in Europe are not up by the % you would expect given the mass hysteria.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 04, 2021, 03:20:46 PM
My oul' lad had to be carted off to hospital by ambulance on December 26th, UCH Galway

He has a persistent urinary tract infection, also has advanced Parkinson's/dementia, he's 77

Tested Covid negative on December 26th and 30th

After a course of antibiotics he was doing well and was supposed to be coming home today

Well, he's not now, we were told this morning he's Covid positive, picked it up in the ward, the place is riddled

He'll probably be coming home soon, in a box most likely

But sure at least the country had a Christmas
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:25:16 PM
Sorry to hear that Sid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 04, 2021, 03:28:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:25:16 PM
Sorry to hear that Sid.
Thanks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 04, 2021, 03:29:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 04, 2021, 03:20:46 PM
My oul' lad had to be carted off to hospital by ambulance on December 26th, UCH Galway

He has a persistent urinary tract infection, also has advanced Parkinson's/dementia, he's 77

Tested Covid negative on December 26th and 30th

After a course of antibiotics he was doing well and was supposed to be coming home today

Well, he's not now, we were told this morning he's Covid positive, picked it up in the ward, the place is riddled

He'll probably be coming home soon, in a box most likely

But sure at least the country had a Christmas

Sorry to hear that Sid. It's an all to common story.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 04, 2021, 03:33:32 PM
Yeah sorry to hear that Sid. Nothing is a given yet so hopefully everything will turn out ok.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 03:47:22 PM
Sorry to hear that Sid hopefully he pulls through, my own parent has tested positive new years eve in care home just waiting on phone call each day!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 04, 2021, 03:54:38 PM
Sorry to hear that Sid and Seaney
Hopefully both pull through
I'll say a wee prayer 🙏
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2021, 03:59:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 04, 2021, 03:20:46 PM
My oul' lad had to be carted off to hospital by ambulance on December 26th, UCH Galway

He has a persistent urinary tract infection, also has advanced Parkinson's/dementia, he's 77

Tested Covid negative on December 26th and 30th

After a course of antibiotics he was doing well and was supposed to be coming home today

Well, he's not now, we were told this morning he's Covid positive, picked it up in the ward, the place is riddled

He'll probably be coming home soon, in a box most likely

But sure at least the country had a Christmas

Sorry to hear Sid. Hope he pulls through.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 04, 2021, 04:46:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 04, 2021, 03:20:46 PM
My oul' lad had to be carted off to hospital by ambulance on December 26th, UCH Galway

He has a persistent urinary tract infection, also has advanced Parkinson's/dementia, he's 77

Tested Covid negative on December 26th and 30th

After a course of antibiotics he was doing well and was supposed to be coming home today

Well, he's not now, we were told this morning he's Covid positive, picked it up in the ward, the place is riddled

He'll probably be coming home soon, in a box most likely

But sure at least the country had a Christmas
The risk in Ireland is half that of the UK , if that's any consolation, Sid. Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 04, 2021, 04:51:20 PM
Sid/Seaney: sorry to hear that. Hope both pull through.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 04, 2021, 04:56:24 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 03:15:19 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 04, 2021, 03:13:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo

Or just regard the plight of many vulnerable groupings, disabled people, people who live alone, people in abusive relationships, people with health conditions not associated with Covid, the education of kids, people who lose their jobs, businesses that are closed down?

Ignore those and put the full focus on Covid?

What exactly was being done for people in abusive relationships that isn't being done now?

Sweden tried the herd immunity approach and it has backfired spectacularly. Even the King of Sweden has admitted they got it wrong. Rolling lockdowns are the only option available to governments around the world unfortunately.

Their abuser wasn't f**king locked up with them 24/7 - not the brightest spark are you!

They also have less access to drink which was one of the main issues when a family member had to deal with it. There is still help out there you arrogant fool. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 04:58:57 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 04, 2021, 04:56:24 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 03:15:19 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 04, 2021, 03:13:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo

Or just regard the plight of many vulnerable groupings, disabled people, people who live alone, people in abusive relationships, people with health conditions not associated with Covid, the education of kids, people who lose their jobs, businesses that are closed down?

Ignore those and put the full focus on Covid?

What exactly was being done for people in abusive relationships that isn't being done now?

Sweden tried the herd immunity approach and it has backfired spectacularly. Even the King of Sweden has admitted they got it wrong. Rolling lockdowns are the only option available to governments around the world unfortunately.

Their abuser wasn't f**king locked up with them 24/7 - not the brightest spark are you!

They also have less access to drink which was one of the main issues when a family member had to deal with it. There is still help out there you arrogant fool.

How so less access? Off licenses are still operating.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 04, 2021, 05:00:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 04, 2021, 03:10:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:47:20 PM
I think we should just go down the Logan Run approach.. anyone over the age of 50 (think it was 25 in the film) just just be left to fend for themselves or put in the gas chamber

We do, as a whole have to start asking when is the time to return to 'normality' in fairness.

1,300 odd deaths in NI. By end of Jan (or before) we will have vaccinated all of the over 80s including GPs / Staff which is apparently 82,000 + people (Guess which gets far more 'media time').

We are in lockdowns to protect the elderly and the NHS. Surely, this latest lockdown of 6 weeks must be the last? I think as a people we deserve to be told the expectations, numbers wise for what will get us out of this lockdown hell since they have no problem telling us the figures that get us into it.

I'm obviously not a massive fan of lockdowns....but, like the majority of the public I follow the guidelines for the good of others. I just don't have absolutely any belief whatsoever the politicians here will give us anything at the end of January.

Personally I'm pretty much at the end of my interest in it after my previous post regarding a far enough out relative that was put down as a covid death after months and months of negatives prior. Frankly it is a disgrace that they can do things like that, that bulks up numbers for Covid. Again, the man was just old, his time had come. No Covid, nothing.

We do have a right to start asking when the end will be in sight, I would obviously just try and phrase it a bit better than "let it rip".

What is your idea of this normality you speak of?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 04, 2021, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo

Or just regard the plight of many vulnerable groupings, disabled people, people who live alone, people in abusive relationships, people with health conditions not associated with Covid, the education of kids, people who lose their jobs, businesses that are closed down?

Ignore those and put the full focus on Covid?

Yes, the sooner Covid is sorted the sooner these people can get back to normal service.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 04, 2021, 05:21:48 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 04, 2021, 05:00:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 04, 2021, 03:10:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:47:20 PM
I think we should just go down the Logan Run approach.. anyone over the age of 50 (think it was 25 in the film) just just be left to fend for themselves or put in the gas chamber

We do, as a whole have to start asking when is the time to return to 'normality' in fairness.

1,300 odd deaths in NI. By end of Jan (or before) we will have vaccinated all of the over 80s including GPs / Staff which is apparently 82,000 + people (Guess which gets far more 'media time').

We are in lockdowns to protect the elderly and the NHS. Surely, this latest lockdown of 6 weeks must be the last? I think as a people we deserve to be told the expectations, numbers wise for what will get us out of this lockdown hell since they have no problem telling us the figures that get us into it.

I'm obviously not a massive fan of lockdowns....but, like the majority of the public I follow the guidelines for the good of others. I just don't have absolutely any belief whatsoever the politicians here will give us anything at the end of January.

Personally I'm pretty much at the end of my interest in it after my previous post regarding a far enough out relative that was put down as a covid death after months and months of negatives prior. Frankly it is a disgrace that they can do things like that, that bulks up numbers for Covid. Again, the man was just old, his time had come. No Covid, nothing.

We do have a right to start asking when the end will be in sight, I would obviously just try and phrase it a bit better than "let it rip".

What is your idea of this normality you speak of?

Approximately this time 365 days ago is good enough for me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 05:28:29 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 04, 2021, 04:56:24 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 03:15:19 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 04, 2021, 03:13:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo

Or just regard the plight of many vulnerable groupings, disabled people, people who live alone, people in abusive relationships, people with health conditions not associated with Covid, the education of kids, people who lose their jobs, businesses that are closed down?

Ignore those and put the full focus on Covid?

What exactly was being done for people in abusive relationships that isn't being done now?

Sweden tried the herd immunity approach and it has backfired spectacularly. Even the King of Sweden has admitted they got it wrong. Rolling lockdowns are the only option available to governments around the world unfortunately.

Their abuser wasn't f**king locked up with them 24/7 - not the brightest spark are you!

They also have less access to drink which was one of the main issues when a family member had to deal with it. There is still help out there you arrogant fool.

Where's your evidence that there was a) less access to drink or b) drink is the main issue, some folk are just evil bastards.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 05:30:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 04, 2021, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo

Or just regard the plight of many vulnerable groupings, disabled people, people who live alone, people in abusive relationships, people with health conditions not associated with Covid, the education of kids, people who lose their jobs, businesses that are closed down?

Ignore those and put the full focus on Covid?

Yes, the sooner Covid is sorted the sooner these people can get back to normal service.

It's not going be sorted by repeated lockdown, those who are following the narrative genuinely have no empathy for those whom lockdown us killing, as long as you are ok eh, you should all be ashamed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 04, 2021, 05:33:13 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 04, 2021, 05:21:48 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 04, 2021, 05:00:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 04, 2021, 03:10:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:47:20 PM
I think we should just go down the Logan Run approach.. anyone over the age of 50 (think it was 25 in the film) just just be left to fend for themselves or put in the gas chamber

We do, as a whole have to start asking when is the time to return to 'normality' in fairness.

1,300 odd deaths in NI. By end of Jan (or before) we will have vaccinated all of the over 80s including GPs / Staff which is apparently 82,000 + people (Guess which gets far more 'media time').

We are in lockdowns to protect the elderly and the NHS. Surely, this latest lockdown of 6 weeks must be the last? I think as a people we deserve to be told the expectations, numbers wise for what will get us out of this lockdown hell since they have no problem telling us the figures that get us into it.

I'm obviously not a massive fan of lockdowns....but, like the majority of the public I follow the guidelines for the good of others. I just don't have absolutely any belief whatsoever the politicians here will give us anything at the end of January.

Personally I'm pretty much at the end of my interest in it after my previous post regarding a far enough out relative that was put down as a covid death after months and months of negatives prior. Frankly it is a disgrace that they can do things like that, that bulks up numbers for Covid. Again, the man was just old, his time had come. No Covid, nothing.

We do have a right to start asking when the end will be in sight, I would obviously just try and phrase it a bit better than "let it rip".

What is your idea of this normality you speak of?

Approximately this time 365 days ago is good enough for me.

I have no answer for that to be honest  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 04, 2021, 05:45:53 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 05:30:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 04, 2021, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo

Or just regard the plight of many vulnerable groupings, disabled people, people who live alone, people in abusive relationships, people with health conditions not associated with Covid, the education of kids, people who lose their jobs, businesses that are closed down?

Ignore those and put the full focus on Covid?

Yes, the sooner Covid is sorted the sooner these people can get back to normal service.

It's not going be sorted by repeated lockdown, those who are following the narrative genuinely have no empathy for those whom lockdown us killing, as long as you are ok eh, you should all be ashamed.

What's your plan on getting it sorted?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 04, 2021, 05:47:47 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 03:15:19 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 04, 2021, 03:13:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo

Or just regard the plight of many vulnerable groupings, disabled people, people who live alone, people in abusive relationships, people with health conditions not associated with Covid, the education of kids, people who lose their jobs, businesses that are closed down?

Ignore those and put the full focus on Covid?

What exactly was being done for people in abusive relationships that isn't being done now?

Sweden tried the herd immunity approach and it has backfired spectacularly. Even the King of Sweden has admitted they got it wrong. Rolling lockdowns are the only option available to governments around the world unfortunately.

Their abuser wasn't f**king locked up with them 24/7 - not the brightest spark are you!

I'm not trying to make light of domestic abuse victims, but I'd imagine quite a lot of abusers were  abusers before lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 04, 2021, 06:11:15 PM
Gaslighting seems to be the buzzword du jour on Twitter. Had to look it up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on January 04, 2021, 06:20:22 PM
Looks like a full lockdown (similar to Scotland) coming.

Anyone know how that will affect construction?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 04, 2021, 06:25:29 PM
What's a full lockdown when all above going
Construction
Hardware stores
B and Q
Food takeaways
Coffee shop takeaways
Play Parks
Mechanical workers


Because with all above likely to be open it's far from a lockdown regardless of what anyone thinks.
The towns about here are buzzing
And that's with schools closed
You either lockdown or ya half lockdown
And to me it's half a lockdown
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 04, 2021, 06:36:40 PM
Bad start to a new week for the ROI with another record high in cases with 6110 today. 776 patients are hospitalised the daily increase remains high.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 04, 2021, 06:52:25 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 04, 2021, 06:25:29 PM
What's a full lockdown when all above going
Construction
Hardware stores
B and Q
Food takeaways
Coffee shop takeaways
Play Parks
Mechanical workers


Because with all above likely to be open it's far from a lockdown regardless of what anyone thinks.
The towns about here are buzzing
And that's with schools closed
You either lockdown or ya half lockdown
And to me it's half a lockdown

All factories will remain open
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 04, 2021, 07:09:34 PM
Should closed airports at Halloween time and went full lock down everything for a month. Then started up again gradually and still heavy restrictions at airports. We are an island with a small population compared to the rest of Europe and were in best position of the lot to get a grip on this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 04, 2021, 07:13:21 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 04, 2021, 04:51:20 PM
Sid/Seaney: sorry to hear that. Hope both pull through.
+1.
Best wishes to both.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 04, 2021, 07:16:02 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 04, 2021, 06:36:40 PM
Bad start to a new week for the ROI with another record high in cases with 6110 today. 776 patients are hospitalised the daily increase remains high.
11,000 cases reported in 2 days.
Over 70 now in ICUs and Hospitals in Galway and Dublin cancelling operations and outpatients.

The VFI are gone very quiet mind you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 04, 2021, 07:53:21 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 05:28:29 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 04, 2021, 04:56:24 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 03:15:19 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 04, 2021, 03:13:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo

Or just regard the plight of many vulnerable groupings, disabled people, people who live alone, people in abusive relationships, people with health conditions not associated with Covid, the education of kids, people who lose their jobs, businesses that are closed down?

Ignore those and put the full focus on Covid?

What exactly was being done for people in abusive relationships that isn't being done now?

Sweden tried the herd immunity approach and it has backfired spectacularly. Even the King of Sweden has admitted they got it wrong. Rolling lockdowns are the only option available to governments around the world unfortunately.

Their abuser wasn't f**king locked up with them 24/7 - not the brightest spark are you!

They also have less access to drink which was one of the main issues when a family member had to deal with it. There is still help out there you arrogant fool.

Where's your evidence that there was a) less access to drink or b) drink is the main issue, some folk are just evil bastards.

With my family it was coming home pissed when the pub closed. Carnage ensued. Have you had similar experience in this area?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 08:04:42 PM
There's a lot more abuse, mental, verbal, controlling as well as physical, being locked up 24/7 with these abusers you surely can see doesn't help the abused.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 08:09:38 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 04, 2021, 05:45:53 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 05:30:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 04, 2021, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo

Or just regard the plight of many vulnerable groupings, disabled people, people who live alone, people in abusive relationships, people with health conditions not associated with Covid, the education of kids, people who lose their jobs, businesses that are closed down?

Ignore those and put the full focus on Covid?

Yes, the sooner Covid is sorted the sooner these people can get back to normal service.

It's not going be sorted by repeated lockdown, those who are following the narrative genuinely have no empathy for those whom lockdown us killing, as long as you are ok eh, you should all be ashamed.

What's your plan on getting it sorted?

Above my pay grade, but its 10 months in and repeated lockdowns have failed, I can see why folk especially the younger are breaking restrictions, put yourself in their shoes as a 17 or 18 year old.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on January 04, 2021, 08:12:20 PM
Repeated lockdowns have failed because they haven't been enforced properly. It still baffles me why this island didn't shut up shop from the start.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 04, 2021, 08:31:52 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 08:09:38 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 04, 2021, 05:45:53 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 05:30:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 04, 2021, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo

Or just regard the plight of many vulnerable groupings, disabled people, people who live alone, people in abusive relationships, people with health conditions not associated with Covid, the education of kids, people who lose their jobs, businesses that are closed down?

Ignore those and put the full focus on Covid?

Yes, the sooner Covid is sorted the sooner these people can get back to normal service.

It's not going be sorted by repeated lockdown, those who are following the narrative genuinely have no empathy for those whom lockdown us killing, as long as you are ok eh, you should all be ashamed.

What's your plan on getting it sorted?

Above my pay grade, but its 10 months in and repeated lockdowns have failed, I can see why folk especially the younger are breaking restrictions, put yourself in their shoes as a 17 or 18 year old.

The hurler on the ditch.

The 2nd bit in bold, I personally know about a dozen 40 somethings (a few with children with underlying health conditions, I kid you not!) who partied during Christmas and have all tested positive, entitled p***k's the lot of them. Easiest thing is to point the finger but a hefty percentage of folk need to be more responsible for their own actions
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 04, 2021, 08:35:28 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 04, 2021, 08:12:20 PM
Repeated lockdowns have failed because they haven't been enforced properly. It still baffles me why this island didn't shut up shop from the start.

Exactly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 08:38:47 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 04, 2021, 08:31:52 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 08:09:38 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 04, 2021, 05:45:53 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 05:30:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 04, 2021, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo

Or just regard the plight of many vulnerable groupings, disabled people, people who live alone, people in abusive relationships, people with health conditions not associated with Covid, the education of kids, people who lose their jobs, businesses that are closed down?

Ignore those and put the full focus on Covid?

Yes, the sooner Covid is sorted the sooner these people can get back to normal service.

It's not going be sorted by repeated lockdown, those who are following the narrative genuinely have no empathy for those whom lockdown us killing, as long as you are ok eh, you should all be ashamed.

What's your plan on getting it sorted?

Above my pay grade, but its 10 months in and repeated lockdowns have failed, I can see why folk especially the younger are breaking restrictions, put yourself in their shoes as a 17 or 18 year old.

The hurler on the ditch.

The 2nd bit in bold, I personally know about a dozen 40 somethings (a few with children with underlying health conditions, I kid you not!) who partied during Christmas and have all tested positive, entitled p***k's the lot of them. Easiest thing is to point the finger but a hefty percentage of folk need to be more responsible for their own actions

Complete ballbags, I and mine have followed every guidance,  government has not helped with mixed messages, folk are human, always thought him without sin.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 08:39:53 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 04, 2021, 08:12:20 PM
Repeated lockdowns have failed because they haven't been enforced properly. It still baffles me why this island didn't shut up shop from the start.

You have to ask?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 04, 2021, 08:49:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 04, 2021, 08:12:20 PM
Repeated lockdowns have failed because they haven't been enforced properly. It still baffles me why this island didn't shut up shop from the start.
2 different jurisdictions one of which has an überbritish major component whose ideology won't allow any similarities to the other part.
Wasn't its leader was waffling today about the "4 Nations" agreeing a strategy despite the fact that Scotland and Wales were doing their own lockdowns.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 04, 2021, 08:54:24 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 04, 2021, 05:33:13 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 04, 2021, 05:21:48 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 04, 2021, 05:00:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 04, 2021, 03:10:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:47:20 PM
I think we should just go down the Logan Run approach.. anyone over the age of 50 (think it was 25 in the film) just just be left to fend for themselves or put in the gas chamber

We do, as a whole have to start asking when is the time to return to 'normality' in fairness.

1,300 odd deaths in NI. By end of Jan (or before) we will have vaccinated all of the over 80s including GPs / Staff which is apparently 82,000 + people (Guess which gets far more 'media time').

We are in lockdowns to protect the elderly and the NHS. Surely, this latest lockdown of 6 weeks must be the last? I think as a people we deserve to be told the expectations, numbers wise for what will get us out of this lockdown hell since they have no problem telling us the figures that get us into it.

I'm obviously not a massive fan of lockdowns....but, like the majority of the public I follow the guidelines for the good of others. I just don't have absolutely any belief whatsoever the politicians here will give us anything at the end of January.

Personally I'm pretty much at the end of my interest in it after my previous post regarding a far enough out relative that was put down as a covid death after months and months of negatives prior. Frankly it is a disgrace that they can do things like that, that bulks up numbers for Covid. Again, the man was just old, his time had come. No Covid, nothing.

We do have a right to start asking when the end will be in sight, I would obviously just try and phrase it a bit better than "let it rip".

What is your idea of this normality you speak of?

Approximately this time 365 days ago is good enough for me.

I have no answer for that to be honest  :o

I'm not really looking an answer. I prefered life before Covid was ever a thought on this island, or earth. I'd give anything I have right now, to rewind before.

Some seem to welcome this current state of hell. Whatever makes people happy I suppose.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 08:59:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 04, 2021, 08:49:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 04, 2021, 08:12:20 PM
Repeated lockdowns have failed because they haven't been enforced properly. It still baffles me why this island didn't shut up shop from the start.
2 different jurisdictions one of which has an überbritish major component whose ideology won't allow any similarities to the other part.
Wasn't its leader was waffling today about the "4 Nations" agreeing a strategy despite the fact that Scotland and Wales were doing their own lockdowns.

Tbf, ye were allowing plane loads of Italian rugby fans to fly into from the epicentre of the virus for a cancelled rugby match down south.

It was conceivable that Ireland should have had a NZ style borders closed approach to Covid that would allow it to be eliminated here through a north/south joined strategy but the DUP/UUP would never allow that.

On the other hand, the south did nothing really until they were told they were allowed to from the EU with regard to airports and ports.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 04, 2021, 09:01:06 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 08:09:38 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 04, 2021, 05:45:53 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 05:30:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 04, 2021, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo

Or just regard the plight of many vulnerable groupings, disabled people, people who live alone, people in abusive relationships, people with health conditions not associated with Covid, the education of kids, people who lose their jobs, businesses that are closed down?

Ignore those and put the full focus on Covid?

Yes, the sooner Covid is sorted the sooner these people can get back to normal service.

It's not going be sorted by repeated lockdown, those who are following the narrative genuinely have no empathy for those whom lockdown us killing, as long as you are ok eh, you should all be ashamed.

What's your plan on getting it sorted?

Above my pay grade, but its 10 months in and repeated lockdowns have failed, I can see why folk especially the younger are breaking restrictions, put yourself in their shoes as a 17 or 18 year old.

In other words you have no plan and just to complain about the plans in place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 04, 2021, 09:03:57 PM
So boris has just confirmed that the uk will administer 13.9 million vaccines by the middle of February
With all 4 nations getting exactly the same amount per population that leaves Northern Ireland getting 2.9% of 13.9 million which means by mid February we should have vaccinated 406000
And it has been confirmed that we plan to vaccinate 11000 this week. Why are questions not being asked. 11000
Sweet Christ
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 04, 2021, 09:10:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 08:59:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 04, 2021, 08:49:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 04, 2021, 08:12:20 PM
Repeated lockdowns have failed because they haven't been enforced properly. It still baffles me why this island didn't shut up shop from the start.
2 different jurisdictions one of which has an überbritish major component whose ideology won't allow any similarities to the other part.
Wasn't its leader was waffling today about the "4 Nations" agreeing a strategy despite the fact that Scotland and Wales were doing their own lockdowns.

Tbf, ye were allowing plane loads of Italian rugby fans to fly into from the epicentre of the virus for a cancelled rugby match down south.

It was conceivable that Ireland should have had a NZ style borders closed approach to Covid that would allow it to be eliminated here through a north/south joined strategy but the DUP/UUP would never allow that.

On the other hand, the south did nothing really until they were told they were allowed to from the EU with regard to airports and ports.

The airports were never closing and will not close lads.

Forget about it. It's not happening. It won't happen. It's a moot point.

We all know it would have been an ideal tool, but it's on the level of throwing the dome over ireland like Springfield in the simpsons movie.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: God14 on January 04, 2021, 09:26:19 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 04, 2021, 09:03:57 PM
So boris has just confirmed that the uk will administer 13.9 million vaccines by the middle of February
With all 4 nations getting exactly the same amount per population that leaves Northern Ireland getting 2.9% of 13.9 million which means by mid February we should have vaccinated 406000
And it has been confirmed that we plan to vaccinate 11000 this week. Why are questions not being asked. 11000
Sweet Christ

Where did you get 11000? I read we got an extra shipment of pfizer, and with Oxford we are scheduled to do 33000
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 04, 2021, 09:28:35 PM
Dr Michael McBride confirmed 11000 vaccinations would be made this week. He also confirmed all 85s and above would be vaccinated in 3 weeks.
Such a lazy leadership
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 09:51:51 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 04, 2021, 09:01:06 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 08:09:38 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 04, 2021, 05:45:53 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 05:30:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 04, 2021, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo

Or just regard the plight of many vulnerable groupings, disabled people, people who live alone, people in abusive relationships, people with health conditions not associated with Covid, the education of kids, people who lose their jobs, businesses that are closed down?

Ignore those and put the full focus on Covid?

Yes, the sooner Covid is sorted the sooner these people can get back to normal service.

It's not going be sorted by repeated lockdown, those who are following the narrative genuinely have no empathy for those whom lockdown us killing, as long as you are ok eh, you should all be ashamed.

What's your plan on getting it sorted?

Above my pay grade, but its 10 months in and repeated lockdowns have failed, I can see why folk especially the younger are breaking restrictions, put yourself in their shoes as a 17 or 18 year old.

In other words you have no plan and just to complain about the plans in place.

You have a great name there, I am not a paid politician what does it matter what I think we are in a shit storm caused in the main by inept leadership.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 04, 2021, 10:10:03 PM
https://t.co/3N9YTbSrqS (https://t.co/3N9YTbSrqS)

Anyone read this thing called "the great barrington declaration? Some theory on alternative to lockdown. Could be whacky I don't know...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on January 04, 2021, 10:32:15 PM
This thread today is like something from a time loop movie.

Boys on both sides having the exact same argument as was had three months ago.

The exact same points being made about lockdown vs. people's jobs/ mental health/ abuse.

Even that Barrington ball of dung getting another run out.

You're all really weird.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 04, 2021, 11:30:34 PM
Lock the GAA Board down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 04, 2021, 11:39:18 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 04, 2021, 11:30:34 PM
Lock the GAA Board down.

lockdowns don't work... have you not read this thread!!  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on January 04, 2021, 11:40:30 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 04, 2021, 11:30:34 PM
Lock the GAA Board down.
Having read "The Great Barrington Declaration", locking down this thread might be a very good idea.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 05, 2021, 02:07:07 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 04, 2021, 11:39:18 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 04, 2021, 11:30:34 PM
Lock the GAA Board down.

lockdowns don't work... have you not read this thread!!  :o

the gah board is where the experts are sure  8)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 05, 2021, 07:23:20 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on January 04, 2021, 10:32:15 PM
This thread today is like something from a time loop movie.

Boys on both sides having the exact same argument as was had three months ago.

The exact same points being made about lockdown vs. people's jobs/ mental health/ abuse.

Even that Barrington ball of dung getting another run out.

You're all really weird.

I didn't realise that had been rolled out before lol. Agree on the rest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 05, 2021, 08:50:31 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 04, 2021, 09:01:06 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 08:09:38 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 04, 2021, 05:45:53 PM
Quote from: Seaney on January 04, 2021, 05:30:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 04, 2021, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 03:00:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Just let the old die, only way out of this, as they'd have only a few months to live, according to angelo

Or just regard the plight of many vulnerable groupings, disabled people, people who live alone, people in abusive relationships, people with health conditions not associated with Covid, the education of kids, people who lose their jobs, businesses that are closed down?

Ignore those and put the full focus on Covid?

Yes, the sooner Covid is sorted the sooner these people can get back to normal service.

It's not going be sorted by repeated lockdown, those who are following the narrative genuinely have no empathy for those whom lockdown us killing, as long as you are ok eh, you should all be ashamed.

What's your plan on getting it sorted?

Above my pay grade, but its 10 months in and repeated lockdowns have failed, I can see why folk especially the younger are breaking restrictions, put yourself in their shoes as a 17 or 18 year old.

In other words you have no plan and just to complain about the plans in place.

So you must have a plan then, do you think the current rolling restrictions are working, so you think shutdown, open up, shutdown again is an effective way to control this virus.  Do you think every aspect of living in a democracy should be shelved to save an NHS which has been absolutely devastated over decades by inept government, if so what is your justification, if not what is your plan?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on January 05, 2021, 08:59:19 AM
Quote from: Seaney on December 29, 2020, 05:31:02 PM
I am asking you for firm evidence it does. 15th December one care home staff and residents vaccinated, today 13 positive cases.

It'll take another few months before they'll know whether the vaccine is capable of preventing vaccinated people from spreading it but they're hopeful based on the small trials they've done.

The UK and South African strains may throw a spanner in the works.....

FYI, you'll be needing vaccinated every year it seems for this.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 09:36:56 AM
If arguing against implementing a strategy that has shown to be a complete and utter failure two times previously makes you weird, then I'm weird.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tubberman on January 05, 2021, 10:04:56 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 09:36:56 AM
If arguing against implementing a strategy that has shown to be a complete and utter failure two times previously makes you weird, then I'm weird.

Instead of telling us what you're against, tell us what your solution is.
If you don't have a solution other than carry on as normal, then the outcome is multiple times worse than what we're currently seeing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 10:15:06 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 05, 2021, 10:04:56 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 09:36:56 AM
If arguing against implementing a strategy that has shown to be a complete and utter failure two times previously makes you weird, then I'm weird.

Instead of telling us what you're against, tell us what your solution is.
If you don't have a solution other than carry on as normal, then the outcome is multiple times worse than what we're currently seeing.

Look. I've answered this question about 20 times and laid what I think is the best course of action out so many times before I'm blue in the face saying it.

I'm not going to repeat myself because you are too lazy to read the responses. Maybe yourself and LCohen can go halves on this thread and read the 20 or so posts where I have had to repeat the same answer again and again for the likes of you.

It's also worth noting that the only people who it matters what they think are government leaders and time and time again, they are getting it badly wrong on Covid.

And you're here defending the indefensible. Rolling lockdowns cause more damage than good.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 10:24:27 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 02:14:35 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 04, 2021, 01:54:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 12:59:07 PM
We are not going to know the full impact of this until it's all over.

That may be a year or two down the line.

My concern focuses on whether lockdown and particularly rolling lockdowns where you are dipping in and out of (telling businesses to shut and open and shut and open are going to cause serious long term damage to the economy and employment - high unemployment has seriously negative societal and wellbeing factors).

There's a lot of people very entrenched with their head in the sand. Cases are through the roof at the minute, deaths are rising but we do know the main demograph it's impacting, we do know the median age of death is above the median life expectancy, we do know the 90%+ proportion that already have existing underlying healthcare problems, we do know that deaths due to Covid are overstated. There's no doubt on any of the previous factors, they are widely accepted by every department that handles this. So is it a case that the measures we take are to save people months of their lives - already probably crippled with underlying health issues?

And how do we then balance that out with the serious consequences of lockdown on the economy, people's employment prospects, the ability of people to provide for our families, the mental health of people, those who are vulnerable, in abusive relationships, addiction problems, people with disabilities and need constant care and support services, the education and social development of children, the impact it has on people who are alone and isolated.

I'd be extremely worried about the covid tunnel vision governments around the world are obsessed with.

We seem to have thrown all our eggs into this vaccine basket, we know nothing about it yet.

As opposed to what other basket?

Living with the virus. Reasonable restrictive measures which we had in the summer months until such time as the virus has ran its course.

What I'd like to see in the next few months is among all the panic and hysteria at present - what the excess deaths are like in comparison to a sever winter flu season that we have accepted without a bone of contention every single year.

Have we lost the run of ourselves over a 10% rise in deaths, 90% who already had serious underlying health conditions?

We have to be realistic and practical about this. There is a point when the cure causes more destruction and chaos than the problem and there's a lot of people too entrenched to even countenance this.

But anywhere, here it is, specially for a lazy sod like Tubberman who couldn't read a couple of posts above what he already posted.

And LCohen, hello LCohen, have a read of that before you bombard me with 30 questions in succession that I have already answered because you don't have the decency to answer questions posed to you in return.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 05, 2021, 10:37:20 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 05, 2021, 10:04:56 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 09:36:56 AM
If arguing against implementing a strategy that has shown to be a complete and utter failure two times previously makes you weird, then I'm weird.

Instead of telling us what you're against, tell us what your solution is.
If you don't have a solution other than carry on as normal, then the outcome is multiple times worse than what we're currently seeing.

Ill ask you what I asked Complete Obvious

Quote from: Seaney on January 05, 2021, 08:50:31 AM

So you must have a plan then, do you think the current rolling restrictions are working, so you think shutdown, open up, shutdown again is an effective way to control this virus.  Do you think every aspect of living in a democracy should be shelved to save an NHS which has been absolutely devastated over decades by inept government, if so what is your justification, if not what is your plan?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on January 05, 2021, 10:46:47 AM
Is it not pretty simple that the NHS will be overwhelmed if you take the laissez faire approach? Yes the economy might be grand but you can't get treated for specialist surgery and then have to wait 3 years instead of 3 months in which time you'll probably be dead. It's like robbing Peter to feed Paul.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 10:53:00 AM
Quote from: Seaney on January 05, 2021, 10:37:20 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 05, 2021, 10:04:56 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 09:36:56 AM
If arguing against implementing a strategy that has shown to be a complete and utter failure two times previously makes you weird, then I'm weird.

Instead of telling us what you're against, tell us what your solution is.
If you don't have a solution other than carry on as normal, then the outcome is multiple times worse than what we're currently seeing.

Ill ask you what I asked Complete Obvious

Quote from: Seaney on January 05, 2021, 08:50:31 AM

So you must have a plan then, do you think the current rolling restrictions are working, so you think shutdown, open up, shutdown again is an effective way to control this virus.  Do you think every aspect of living in a democracy should be shelved to save an NHS which has been absolutely devastated over decades by inept government, if so what is your justification, if not what is your plan?

You'll find they only like to ask questions and snipe. They have a huge issue at addressing questions put to them though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 10:54:53 AM
Quote from: general_lee on January 05, 2021, 10:46:47 AM
Is it not pretty simple that the NHS will be overwhelmed if you take the laissez faire approach? Yes the economy might be grand but you can't get treated for specialist surgery and then have to wait 3 years instead of 3 months in which time you'll probably be dead. It's like robbing Peter to feed Paul.

What I'd like to see when we come to the end of March is how excess deaths compare with that of the 17/18 Winter flu seasons when the UK alone had 50k excess deaths.

A lot of people seem to be along the line of saying your death and plight is acceptable as long as it not directly related to contracting Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 05, 2021, 11:05:53 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 10:54:53 AM
A lot of people seem to be along the line of saying your death and plight is acceptable as long as it not directly related to contracting Covid.

Nobody is saying this. Who exactly has said this, give us a concrete example.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on January 05, 2021, 11:07:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 10:24:27 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 02:14:35 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 04, 2021, 01:54:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 12:59:07 PM
We are not going to know the full impact of this until it's all over.

That may be a year or two down the line.

My concern focuses on whether lockdown and particularly rolling lockdowns where you are dipping in and out of (telling businesses to shut and open and shut and open are going to cause serious long term damage to the economy and employment - high unemployment has seriously negative societal and wellbeing factors).

There's a lot of people very entrenched with their head in the sand. Cases are through the roof at the minute, deaths are rising but we do know the main demograph it's impacting, we do know the median age of death is above the median life expectancy, we do know the 90%+ proportion that already have existing underlying healthcare problems, we do know that deaths due to Covid are overstated. There's no doubt on any of the previous factors, they are widely accepted by every department that handles this. So is it a case that the measures we take are to save people months of their lives - already probably crippled with underlying health issues?

And how do we then balance that out with the serious consequences of lockdown on the economy, people's employment prospects, the ability of people to provide for our families, the mental health of people, those who are vulnerable, in abusive relationships, addiction problems, people with disabilities and need constant care and support services, the education and social development of children, the impact it has on people who are alone and isolated.

I'd be extremely worried about the covid tunnel vision governments around the world are obsessed with.

We seem to have thrown all our eggs into this vaccine basket, we know nothing about it yet.

As opposed to what other basket?

Living with the virus. Reasonable restrictive measures which we had in the summer months until such time as the virus has ran its course.

What I'd like to see in the next few months is among all the panic and hysteria at present - what the excess deaths are like in comparison to a sever winter flu season that we have accepted without a bone of contention every single year.

Have we lost the run of ourselves over a 10% rise in deaths, 90% who already had serious underlying health conditions?

We have to be realistic and practical about this. There is a point when the cure causes more destruction and chaos than the problem and there's a lot of people too entrenched to even countenance this.

But anywhere, here it is, specially for a lazy sod like Tubberman who couldn't read a couple of posts above what he already posted.

And LCohen, hello LCohen, have a read of that before you bombard me with 30 questions in succession that I have already answered because you don't have the decency to answer questions posed to you in return.

Not sure what the red type is about or indeed the "hello" but once again I repeat my invitation for you to provide a list of questions that have been posed to me and I have failed to answer?

This has been asked if you before and you have failed to produce any of the evidence that you claim exists. All you do is repeat the claim. I suspect that behaviour would embarrass Donald Trump.

So post the evidence that supports your own claim.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 05, 2021, 11:10:17 AM
Quote from: general_lee on January 05, 2021, 10:46:47 AM
Is it not pretty simple that the NHS will be overwhelmed if you take the laissez faire approach? Yes the economy might be grand but you can't get treated for specialist surgery and then have to wait 3 years instead of 3 months in which time you'll probably be dead. It's like robbing Peter to feed Paul.

You must be going private to wait 3 months for anything, even prior pandemic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 11:10:46 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 05, 2021, 11:05:53 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 10:54:53 AM
A lot of people seem to be along the line of saying your death and plight is acceptable as long as it not directly related to contracting Covid.

Nobody is saying this. Who exactly has said this, give us a concrete example.

They are.

Because they seem absolute zealots when it comes to Covid.

None of them seem to countenance that restrictions can have devastating blows when it comes to people's wellbeing and health. They won't even consider that.

Governments have used rolling lockdowns as mechanisms to absolve themselves of accountability for the spread of the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 11:11:45 AM
Here comes the barrage of LCohen repeat questions that have already been answered to throw the topic off track.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 05, 2021, 11:13:40 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 05, 2021, 11:05:53 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 10:54:53 AM
A lot of people seem to be along the line of saying your death and plight is acceptable as long as it not directly related to contracting Covid.

Nobody is saying this. Who exactly has said this, give us a concrete example.

Nothing matters but covid, and if you haven't got it they will put it on your death cert anyways.  It's a covid state and those ballbags on the hill couldn't run a bath - just following Bo Joke and his ilk - - how Hancock is still employed is beyond me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 05, 2021, 11:15:11 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 11:11:45 AM
Here comes the barrage of LCohen repeat questions that have already been answered to throw the topic off track.

And ask you what your plan is - but won't state his own thoughts - Milhouse, the complete embarrassment, will be in to back him up and tell him he is the most intelligent poster on the board.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LCohen on January 05, 2021, 11:27:14 AM
I see Seaney and Angelo have got their heads together. Will their collective efforts come up with a question that they have posed and I haven't answered?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seaney on January 05, 2021, 11:56:01 AM
Quote from: LCohen on January 05, 2021, 11:27:14 AM
I see Seaney and Angelo have got their heads together. Will their collective efforts come up with a question that they have posed and I haven't answered?

You are just boring now - though Milhouse will be loving your high intellect!  What's your plan, you keep asking others theirs and they keep telling you but you like to wait a while then say they haven't been answered, or are you happy with the failed narrative and all the pain that brings to many many sections of the community? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 05, 2021, 12:45:44 PM
We cannot live with the virus because to live with the virus means living with the virus growing

And we cannot do that

My father is probably going to die of Covid, along with many other people, because he picked it up in hospital while being treated for a treatable non-Covid medical problem

And lots of other people will die for similar reasons, and people will also die because their treatable non-Covid medical problems turn into no longer treatable problems because they don't seek treatment because they are understandably petrified of catching Covid

This would not be happening if the virus had not grown

We should have tried to eliminate the virus and we still should try to do that, in tandem with vaccinations - better late than never - it won't save my father but it would save other people

This by Naomi O'Leary is one of the best articles written during this pandemic

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-west-has-failed-us-and-europe-have-made-a-mess-of-handling-the-crisis-1.4395473
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 05, 2021, 12:51:53 PM
There's a special place in hell reserved for these far right political propaganda merchants

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eq9FkLVW4AEh0k4?format=jpg&name=medium)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eq82RkxXEAAAquX?format=jpg&name=medium)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eq82T7PW4AQ3xuR?format=png&name=small)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eq82ghJW4AUdH1D?format=jpg&name=medium)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eq82quaWMAET56S?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 05, 2021, 01:00:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 05, 2021, 12:45:44 PM
We cannot live with the virus because to live with the virus means living with the virus growing

And we cannot do that

My father is probably going to die of Covid, along with many other people, because he picked it up in hospital while being treated for a treatable non-Covid medical problem

And lots of other people will die for similar reasons, and people will also die because their treatable non-Covid medical problems turn into no longer treatable problems because they don't seek treatment because they are understandably petrified of catching Covid

This would not be happening if the virus had not grown

We should have tried to eliminate the virus and we still should try to do that, in tandem with vaccinations - better late than never - it won't save my father but it would save other people

This by Naomi O'Leary is one of the best articles written during this pandemic

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-west-has-failed-us-and-europe-have-made-a-mess-of-handling-the-crisis-1.4395473

Good read
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 05, 2021, 01:02:19 PM
You lied, you faked, you cheated, you changed the stakes
Magnet toss that pie in the sky, unrehearsed, let the bubbles burst
All in all, a three-ring circus of unity with parody
Tragedy or comedy, probably publicity

Open up, and make room for me

Yeah

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/optimized/3X/e/f/efa3e14865b683dd67461a67863448e8d697e203_2_1035x730.png)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 05, 2021, 03:03:49 PM
And the same type of chart of European countries (not all in this)/ While this does show the line dropping near the end this probably reflects data still to come in and does not reflect the recent UK increase. We are well beyond flu in any case, although some countries have kept Covid under control.

(https://euromomo.eu/uploads/images/pooled_wk52_bulletin-727eeccb-68eb-493d-b36f-0c0e895685c7.png)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 03:16:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 05, 2021, 03:03:49 PM
And the same type of chart of European countries (not all in this)/ While this does show the line dropping near the end this probably reflects data still to come in and does not reflect the recent UK increase. We are well beyond flu in any case, although some countries have kept Covid under control.

(https://euromomo.eu/uploads/images/pooled_wk52_bulletin-727eeccb-68eb-493d-b36f-0c0e895685c7.png)

Well beyond?

Look at the winter flu season of 17/18.

It's not well beyond that, it's slightly beyond it.

We did not bat an eyelid when we had 50k excess deaths during the winter flu season of 17/18. The death rates this winter should be compared with that of a bad winter flu season and see what the difference was and whether we have overreacted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 05, 2021, 03:25:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 03:16:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 05, 2021, 03:03:49 PM
And the same type of chart of European countries (not all in this)/ While this does show the line dropping near the end this probably reflects data still to come in and does not reflect the recent UK increase. We are well beyond flu in any case, although some countries have kept Covid under control.

(https://euromomo.eu/uploads/images/pooled_wk52_bulletin-727eeccb-68eb-493d-b36f-0c0e895685c7.png)

Well beyond?

Look at the winter flu season of 17/18.

It's not well beyond that, it's slightly beyond it.

We did not bat an eyelid when we had 50k excess deaths during the winter flu season of 17/18. The death rates this winter should be compared with that of a bad winter flu season and see what the difference was and whether we have overreacted.

Good idea.

When doing that comparison, be sure to account for the fact that there were no social distancing measures or restrictions of any kind in 17/18.

I'm sure someone with knowledge of respiratory disease transmission could provide an estimate of the factor which would need to be applied in order to make the comparison a fair one.

Or don't bother doing that.

In which case, you've wasted your time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 03:28:39 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 05, 2021, 03:25:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 03:16:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 05, 2021, 03:03:49 PM
And the same type of chart of European countries (not all in this)/ While this does show the line dropping near the end this probably reflects data still to come in and does not reflect the recent UK increase. We are well beyond flu in any case, although some countries have kept Covid under control.

(https://euromomo.eu/uploads/images/pooled_wk52_bulletin-727eeccb-68eb-493d-b36f-0c0e895685c7.png)

Well beyond?

Look at the winter flu season of 17/18.

It's not well beyond that, it's slightly beyond it.

We did not bat an eyelid when we had 50k excess deaths during the winter flu season of 17/18. The death rates this winter should be compared with that of a bad winter flu season and see what the difference was and whether we have overreacted.

Good idea.

When doing that comparison, be sure to account for the fact that there were no social distancing measures or restrictions of any kind in 17/18.

I'm sure someone with knowledge of respiratory disease transmission could provide an estimate of the factor which would need to be applied in order to make the comparison a fair one.

Or don't bother doing that.

In which case, you've wasted your time.

So 50k excess deaths is an acceptable figure without any restrictive measures for you?

Interesting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 05, 2021, 03:35:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 03:28:39 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 05, 2021, 03:25:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 03:16:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 05, 2021, 03:03:49 PM
And the same type of chart of European countries (not all in this)/ While this does show the line dropping near the end this probably reflects data still to come in and does not reflect the recent UK increase. We are well beyond flu in any case, although some countries have kept Covid under control.

(https://euromomo.eu/uploads/images/pooled_wk52_bulletin-727eeccb-68eb-493d-b36f-0c0e895685c7.png)

Well beyond?

Look at the winter flu season of 17/18.

It's not well beyond that, it's slightly beyond it.

We did not bat an eyelid when we had 50k excess deaths during the winter flu season of 17/18. The death rates this winter should be compared with that of a bad winter flu season and see what the difference was and whether we have overreacted.

Good idea.

When doing that comparison, be sure to account for the fact that there were no social distancing measures or restrictions of any kind in 17/18.

I'm sure someone with knowledge of respiratory disease transmission could provide an estimate of the factor which would need to be applied in order to make the comparison a fair one.

Or don't bother doing that.

In which case, you've wasted your time.

So 50k excess deaths is an acceptable figure without any restrictive measures for you?

Interesting.

Unfortunately, I can't say the same about this pathetic straw man effort.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 05, 2021, 05:23:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 03:16:03 PM
Well beyond?

Look at the winter flu season of 17/18.

It's not well beyond that, it's slightly beyond it.

The flu in 2018 has 10,000 excess deaths in a month, April 2020 had 30,000 excess deaths in a month despite extensive measures, but of course Covid is not really seasonal and there were 15000 excess deaths a month in the autumn also. Even in NI, deaths in the first week of November were up one third on  the 5 year average, and outside any previous experience for that time of year, the rest of November was more like up 20%. 

QuoteWe did not bat an eyelid when we had 50k excess deaths during the winter flu season of 17/18. The death rates this winter should be compared with that of a bad winter flu season and see what the difference was and whether we have overreacted.

Who is "we" in this case?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 05, 2021, 06:07:07 PM
17 deaths along with 5325 cases is the Republic's latest daily figure

Deaths really beginning to tick up again now and they will continue to do so
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on January 05, 2021, 06:28:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 05, 2021, 06:07:07 PM
17 deaths along with 5325 cases is the Republic's latest daily figure

Deaths really beginning to tick up again now and they will continue to do so

16 of those deaths happened in the last 5 days.

Working through the backlog cases now

9625 positive swabs the last 48hrs
Confirmed cases last 48hrs 11435

Dr Holohan today

We can turn this around quickly if we stick to the measures we know worked last spring. We have seen some early progress in that the average number of contacts per case has been dropping in recent days.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 05, 2021, 06:45:52 PM
The prevalence of the UK variant is up to around 25% of cases in the Republic now per Six One news

There should be no assumption that cases have peaked or anything like it, it can go a lot, lot higher
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on January 05, 2021, 07:41:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 05, 2021, 06:45:52 PM
The prevalence of the UK variant is up to around 25% of cases in the Republic now per Six One news

There should be no assumption that cases have peaked or anything like it, it can go a lot, lot higher

Could not can.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 07:49:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 05, 2021, 05:23:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 05, 2021, 03:16:03 PM
Well beyond?

Look at the winter flu season of 17/18.

It's not well beyond that, it's slightly beyond it.

The flu in 2018 has 10,000 excess deaths in a month, April 2020 had 30,000 excess deaths in a month despite extensive measures, but of course Covid is not really seasonal and there were 15000 excess deaths a month in the autumn also. Even in NI, deaths in the first week of November were up one third on  the 5 year average, and outside any previous experience for that time of year, the rest of November was more like up 20%. 

QuoteWe did not bat an eyelid when we had 50k excess deaths during the winter flu season of 17/18. The death rates this winter should be compared with that of a bad winter flu season and see what the difference was and whether we have overreacted.

Who is "we" in this case?

It had 50K excess deaths from Dec 17 - Mar 18 in the UK. Excess deaths are excess deaths at the end of the day. It's dangerous to go around excusing one trigger for huge excess deaths and causing panic and hysteria over another triggers and that's what is happening.

Everyone, did you hear anyone demanding lockdowns, schools being closed, face masks, people working from home etc

50k excess deaths was perfectly grand for the general population.

Now going back to a point I made earlier - any confirmed case of flu this winter yet? Are people not skeptical of that? Does it not make people curious that we have no reportings of a seasonal flu which hosptialises and kills thousands of people every year?


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 05, 2021, 07:55:07 PM
Is the flu just during the winter? And is Covid a year round thing?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 05, 2021, 10:43:35 PM
Stupid is as stupid does.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1346577348683046926
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 06, 2021, 08:16:02 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/covid-19-all-travellers-into-state-will-have-to-provide-negative-pcr-test-1.4450888

"Covid-19: All travellers into State will have to provide negative PCR test"

Traveller is such a loaded word in Ireland.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: downjim on January 06, 2021, 01:21:38 PM
If construction ceases's in the south what will happen in the North, the sites are not safe at the minute? I was on a site yesterday with one toilet for 20 of us tradesmen!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: WeeDonns on January 06, 2021, 01:37:04 PM
Presume construction workers in the south affected by closed sites are put on Furlough - but what about Northerners who were working on those sites - can they be furloughed even though their industry hasn't been told to stay at home in NI?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 06, 2021, 01:40:07 PM
Why have we lost the run of ourselves?

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/2/c/2c3bfc45fdda573c793878f59bc2f50f149044f1.png)

You can see from the above that the peak of Covid so far has not touched the peak of a bad winter flu season.

What's the metrics here? What is an acceptable level of death and what's not that justifies the carnage lockdowns bring to society as a whole?

How many excess deaths has lockdown been responsible for rather than Covid?

These are the questions we need to address.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 06, 2021, 02:05:59 PM
Over 1900 positive cases today. Looks like 57 more people in hospital too from yesterday or could be some backlog. 592 inpatients in total from covid. I remember a time that was less than a hundred.

At the current rate of growth and bearing in mind deaths and hospital cases follow a lag there are going to be big problems with hospital capacity in the north very very soon. (Not that there aren't already).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Norf Tyrone on January 06, 2021, 02:07:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 06, 2021, 01:40:07 PM
Why have we lost the run of ourselves?

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/2/c/2c3bfc45fdda573c793878f59bc2f50f149044f1.png)

You can see from the above that the peak of Covid so far has not touched the peak of a bad winter flu season.

What's the metrics here? What is an acceptable level of death and what's not that justifies the carnage lockdowns bring to society as a whole?

How many excess deaths has lockdown been responsible for rather than Covid?

These are the questions we need to address.



That shows deaths 11.2% higher for 2020. If you look at April (Deaths as a result of the virus spreading pre lockdown) it's 50% higher. That's despite all the measures in place.

What would deaths be like IF we carried on regardless?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mario on January 06, 2021, 02:08:28 PM
Angelo, you raise some interesting points. As far as i'm concerned as soon as the over 70s and vulnerable are vaccinated hopefully by the end of February/early March, everything should open and there should never be another lockdown because this chaos can't go on. Covid isn't going to go away, are we going to lockdown every winter? We just have to live with it unfortunately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 06, 2021, 02:13:22 PM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on January 06, 2021, 02:07:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 06, 2021, 01:40:07 PM
Why have we lost the run of ourselves?

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/2/c/2c3bfc45fdda573c793878f59bc2f50f149044f1.png)

You can see from the above that the peak of Covid so far has not touched the peak of a bad winter flu season.

What's the metrics here? What is an acceptable level of death and what's not that justifies the carnage lockdowns bring to society as a whole?

How many excess deaths has lockdown been responsible for rather than Covid?

These are the questions we need to address.



That shows deaths 11.2% higher for 2020. If you look at April (Deaths as a result of the virus spreading pre lockdown) it's 50% higher. That's despite all the measures in place.

What would deaths be like IF we carried on regardless?
you can at least triple the death rate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Norf Tyrone on January 06, 2021, 03:32:01 PM
The updated figure for NI after FW 49 is 16431 which is on track for 17436. I can't find the link on the NI stats page to see what it's reading now at year end.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Norf Tyrone on January 06, 2021, 04:16:08 PM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on January 06, 2021, 03:32:01 PM
The updated figure for NI after FW 49 is 16431 which is on track for 17436. I can't find the link on the NI stats page to see what it's reading now at year end.

Found the link. We are at 16781 after week 50 which is on track for 17452 deaths this year assuming the same rate over the last 2 weeks. That's the highest since 1973 (17669) and the 3rd highest figure since 1941.

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/publications/weekly-deaths (https://www.nisra.gov.uk/publications/weekly-deaths)

As stated earlier- What would that figure be without lockdown? I appreciate that lockdown will lead to some additional deaths and all that should not be allowed to happen. However- I think if we carried on as normal and deaths spiralled in to the 20,000 range, that that impact on mental health, as one example would've been even more severe that what we're currently seeing.

So Angelo maybe that's why we've lost the run of ourselves.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on January 06, 2021, 04:23:25 PM
So schools and construction closed for month of January at least.
Took them long enough to make the announcement but sure at least we know now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 06, 2021, 04:42:18 PM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on January 06, 2021, 04:16:08 PM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on January 06, 2021, 03:32:01 PM
The updated figure for NI after FW 49 is 16431 which is on track for 17436. I can't find the link on the NI stats page to see what it's reading now at year end.

Found the link. We are at 16781 after week 50 which is on track for 17452 deaths this year assuming the same rate over the last 2 weeks. That's the highest since 1973 (17669) and the 3rd highest figure since 1941.

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/publications/weekly-deaths (https://www.nisra.gov.uk/publications/weekly-deaths)

As stated earlier- What would that figure be without lockdown? I appreciate that lockdown will lead to some additional deaths and all that should not be allowed to happen. However- I think if we carried on as normal and deaths spiralled in to the 20,000 range, that that impact on mental health, as one example would've been even more severe that what we're currently seeing.

So Angelo maybe that's why we've lost the run of ourselves.

But we didn't lose the run of ourselves in January 2018.

Sound.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 06, 2021, 05:03:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 06, 2021, 04:42:18 PM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on January 06, 2021, 04:16:08 PM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on January 06, 2021, 03:32:01 PM
The updated figure for NI after FW 49 is 16431 which is on track for 17436. I can't find the link on the NI stats page to see what it's reading now at year end.

Found the link. We are at 16781 after week 50 which is on track for 17452 deaths this year assuming the same rate over the last 2 weeks. That's the highest since 1973 (17669) and the 3rd highest figure since 1941.

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/publications/weekly-deaths (https://www.nisra.gov.uk/publications/weekly-deaths)

As stated earlier- What would that figure be without lockdown? I appreciate that lockdown will lead to some additional deaths and all that should not be allowed to happen. However- I think if we carried on as normal and deaths spiralled in to the 20,000 range, that that impact on mental health, as one example would've been even more severe that what we're currently seeing.

So Angelo maybe that's why we've lost the run of ourselves.

But we didn't lose the run of ourselves in January 2018.

Sound.

We didn't need to, the flu epidemic was under control by March without any special measures.
As the table above shows, more people have died in 11 months of 2020 than all of 2018, and that is with a lot of effort to control things by many people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 06, 2021, 10:32:33 PM
Know someone who got covid-19  twice in London.,5/6  months apart, I though they said that couldn't happen??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 06, 2021, 10:37:59 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 06, 2021, 10:32:33 PM
Know someone who got covid-19  twice in London.,5/6  months apart, I though they said that couldn't happen??

Nah, there's been plenty getting it twice..

I'd a client got it twice, first time floored, hospital and ventilation

Second time 7 months later he got it again, but only lost his taste! After just getting it back lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 07, 2021, 11:34:39 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 06, 2021, 05:03:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 06, 2021, 04:42:18 PM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on January 06, 2021, 04:16:08 PM
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on January 06, 2021, 03:32:01 PM
The updated figure for NI after FW 49 is 16431 which is on track for 17436. I can't find the link on the NI stats page to see what it's reading now at year end.

Found the link. We are at 16781 after week 50 which is on track for 17452 deaths this year assuming the same rate over the last 2 weeks. That's the highest since 1973 (17669) and the 3rd highest figure since 1941.

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/publications/weekly-deaths (https://www.nisra.gov.uk/publications/weekly-deaths)

As stated earlier- What would that figure be without lockdown? I appreciate that lockdown will lead to some additional deaths and all that should not be allowed to happen. However- I think if we carried on as normal and deaths spiralled in to the 20,000 range, that that impact on mental health, as one example would've been even more severe that what we're currently seeing.

So Angelo maybe that's why we've lost the run of ourselves.

But we didn't lose the run of ourselves in January 2018.

Sound.

We didn't need to, the flu epidemic was under control by March without any special measures.
As the table above shows, more people have died in 11 months of 2020 than all of 2018, and that is with a lot of effort to control things by many people.

Yes, we didn't even know it was happening.

We had a massive peak in Jan 2018 which has yet to be surpassed during all the hysteria and panic of Covid and nobody batted an eyelid, In fact it wasn't even newsworthy until about a year later.

You don't find that strange?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 07, 2021, 11:40:57 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 06, 2021, 10:37:59 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 06, 2021, 10:32:33 PM
Know someone who got covid-19  twice in London.,5/6  months apart, I though they said that couldn't happen??

Nah, there's been plenty getting it twice..

I'd a client got it twice, first time floored, hospital and ventilation

Second time 7 months later he got it again, but only lost his taste! After just getting it back lol

This is why it's kinda gone to pot now. In March people were taking this serious- all these things about the mess in Italy, people in Wuhan everyroad on ground, stuff like that. Now they know the truth.....look, it's a killer...under the right circumstances, no point denying that if you aren't well or are in that bracket it's not something you want to experience.

The vast, vast majority of times (if you even know you have it). You'll be grand. People know what now. That's why people are turning against lockdowns in a massive way and compliance is plummeting to a low (combined with relaxation re: vaccination).

Not saying the above is my own opinion, but that's pretty much where we are with the public.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 07, 2021, 11:45:41 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 07, 2021, 11:40:57 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 06, 2021, 10:37:59 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 06, 2021, 10:32:33 PM
Know someone who got covid-19  twice in London.,5/6  months apart, I though they said that couldn't happen??

Nah, there's been plenty getting it twice..

I'd a client got it twice, first time floored, hospital and ventilation

Second time 7 months later he got it again, but only lost his taste! After just getting it back lol

This is why it's kinda gone to pot now. In March people were taking this serious- all these things about the mess in Italy, people in Wuhan everyroad on ground, stuff like that. Now they know the truth.....look, it's a killer...under the right circumstances, no point denying that if you aren't well or are in that bracket it's not something you want to experience.

The vast, vast majority of times (if you even know you have it). You'll be grand. People know what now. That's why people are turning against lockdowns in a massive way and compliance is plummeting to a low (combined with relaxation re: vaccination).

Not saying the above is my own opinion, but that's pretty much where we are with the public.

Lockdowns are a way of governments absolving themselves from responsibility rather than actually addressing the issues they can throw it back on the public and say "listen we told you what to do but you didn't comply".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 07, 2021, 12:09:35 PM
I'd agree with that, definitely with regards to the NHS propaganda. I see clapping is back tonight.

I really don't know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2021, 01:00:32 PM
Any fool that thinks the NHS is in the right shape needs their head examined and I haven't seen a poster on her think any different.

While my personal experience has been limited the care taken towards my dad was amazing, but there are thousands out there waiting (before covid) to have operations that have been 3 years long..

I'm not sure the NHS is sustainable unless we start paying more taxes, if we want a viable service then we need to pay more for it, its losing millions per day..

I work in private health, the difference is night and day, you get what you pay for.

There are people out there every day not taking precautions for this virus, the hospital is the place were you go to after you have covid that means you have to be hospitalized. blaming the government for not having a good NHS is completely correct, blaming fuckwits for going around and creating multiple infections is not a government problem, that's completely at fault of the fuckwits who thinks the virus won't get him cause he doesn't  fit the bracket
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 07, 2021, 01:08:12 PM
It is underfunded and mismanaged. The staff "on the ground" are doing a fantastic job keeping it going as well as it is going. The layers of bureaucracy they have brought in are really not helping it and are also a big problem. I have heard a lot from nurses these days that they don't have time to do their job because of this.

The government has to take a good part of the blame for how this has panned out. We have stormont here and then BoJo from the north. The south is signifcantly better there but far from perfect.

Individuals need to take personal responsibility too but I would feel like it is very easy for the government to say that too. Also their own need to take responsibility first and foremost and set an example. Sammy Wilson springs to mind in 4 instances now wrt that. Then there was BoJo shaking patients hands who had covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on January 07, 2021, 01:25:55 PM
State of emergency declared in Tokyo due to mounting covid cases. The Olympics could be cancelled for another year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2021, 01:32:52 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on January 07, 2021, 01:25:55 PM
State of emergency declared in Tokyo due to mounting covid cases. The Olympics could be cancelled for another year.

Just let it go ahead, with not spectators.. Sure they are young fit men that would have no issues if they caught covid, let her rip
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 07, 2021, 02:50:24 PM
Let me quote the south of Ireland's Health minister on RTE just now
And I quote
There is no evidence of flu this year
Sometimes it makes you really think
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 07, 2021, 03:05:53 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 07, 2021, 02:50:24 PM
Let me quote the south of Ireland's Health minister on RTE just now
And I quote
There is no evidence of flu this year
Sometimes it makes you really think

I made this point earlier to the idiots who dismiss any question of the current strategy out of hand.

None of them gave me an answer, they just hurled abuse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 07, 2021, 03:06:50 PM
The idiots lol.

They're either for you or against you angelo. There's no middle ground where you can agree on one thing but not another. Either for or against you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on January 07, 2021, 03:25:19 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 07, 2021, 02:50:24 PM
Let me quote the south of Ireland's Health minister on RTE just now
And I quote
There is no evidence of flu this year
Sometimes it makes you really think


For one thing basic hygiene levels have went up, sanitising your hands going into shops and buildings really should stay with us post Covid. That will help reduce flu and other airborne ailments even the common cold FFS.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 07, 2021, 03:30:17 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 07, 2021, 03:25:19 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 07, 2021, 02:50:24 PM
Let me quote the south of Ireland's Health minister on RTE just now
And I quote
There is no evidence of flu this year
Sometimes it makes you really think


For one thing basic hygiene levels have went up, sanitising your hands going into shops and buildings really should stay with us post Covid. That will help reduce flu and other airborne ailments even the common cold FFS.

Also abolishing hand shaking and things like escalators and lifts should automatically sterilised.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 07, 2021, 03:34:11 PM
From a personal point of view, within my wider family, circle of friends, club members from soccer and GAA, work etc... I've seen a shift again towards support of Lockdown from many of them. Many are 40+ and quite a few have the virus or are recovering from the virus. Many cannot shift the pain from inflammation and lethargy weeks, and for a few, months after contracting Covid. Many also have not got their sense of taste back. Some work within the trusts and are due to be vaccinated but have been advised against until the symptons clear. With more and more young enough people experiencing this, word spreads and makes others think. Hopefully the vast majority heed the guidelines until the vaccine has worked its way through our communities.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 07, 2021, 03:36:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2021, 01:32:52 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on January 07, 2021, 01:25:55 PM
State of emergency declared in Tokyo due to mounting covid cases. The Olympics could be cancelled for another year.

Just let it go ahead, with not spectators.. Sure they are young fit men that would have no issues if they caught covid, let her rip

Any word on the Euros? Surely it won't be happening all over Europe? Surely if it's to go ahead, it will be in one country?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2021, 06:00:41 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 07, 2021, 03:25:19 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 07, 2021, 02:50:24 PM
Let me quote the south of Ireland's Health minister on RTE just now
And I quote
There is no evidence of flu this year
Sometimes it makes you really think


For one thing basic hygiene levels have went up, sanitising your hands going into shops and buildings really should stay with us post Covid. That will help reduce flu and other airborne ailments even the common cold FFS.

This has been discussed at length and they still aren't able to read tbf post correctly or understand that simple piece of information. Do it with crayons next
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on January 07, 2021, 06:04:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 07, 2021, 03:30:17 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 07, 2021, 03:25:19 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 07, 2021, 02:50:24 PM
Let me quote the south of Ireland's Health minister on RTE just now
And I quote
There is no evidence of flu this year
Sometimes it makes you really think


For one thing basic hygiene levels have went up, sanitising your hands going into shops and buildings really should stay with us post Covid. That will help reduce flu and other airborne ailments even the common cold FFS.

Also abolishing hand shaking and things like escalators and lifts should automatically sterilised.

Valid points lads.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 07, 2021, 06:08:34 PM
Milltown what's your take on the flu being totally eliminated?
Now take into consideration that this time every year we hear about our hospitals being overwhelmed and patients lying on beds in corridors.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2021, 06:09:11 PM
Personally lads starting to see some very strong evidence of mental health being negatively affected in friends and colleagues since advent of covid. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2021, 06:12:52 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 07, 2021, 06:08:34 PM
Milltown what's your take on the flu being totally eliminated?
Now take into consideration that this time every year we hear about our hospitals being overwhelmed and patients lying on beds in corridors.

Totally?

Can you put up a link for the uk on no flus being reported?

Also this has been discussed, if you are not in contact with people like before then the chances of catching flu, which unlike Covid and especially this variant is very contagious.

So by no one catching this winter, do you think the flu was a hoax before?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 07, 2021, 09:14:51 PM
Have the GAAboard daily Covid ROI V NI update stats dried up then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 07, 2021, 09:37:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2021, 06:12:52 PM
So by no one catching this winter, do you think the flu was a hoax before?

The world Pharma conspirators have now something better to cod people with.


Quote from: bennydorano on January 07, 2021, 09:14:51 PM
Have the GAAboard daily Covid ROI V NI update stats dried up then?

Both teams being well beaten, no need for the exact score.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2021, 09:46:48 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 07, 2021, 06:08:34 PM
Milltown what's your take on the flu being totally eliminated?
Now take into consideration that this time every year we hear about our hospitals being overwhelmed and patients lying on beds in corridors.

Between January and August 2020, there were 48,168 deaths due to Covid-19 compared to 13,600 from pneumonia/flu
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 07, 2021, 09:50:14 PM
This refers to the UK

Quotehttps://twitter.com/LouiseRawAuthor/status/1347288887689940997

It is (sadly) entirely possible to die from Covid more than 28 days after a positive test result.
But if you do, your death isn't counted.

Wonder what the true overall figure is.

The 60 day figure is believed to be around 85k rather than the circa 78k figure for 28 days
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 07, 2021, 10:02:03 PM
"Run it's course"

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1347200811303055364?s=21

Thick twat

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 07, 2021, 10:17:43 PM
Hancock saying now that people will probably need to be vaccinated every 6 months. Or at least every year. 

This ain't going away. It was never meant to.

This isn't about fighting a virus. It's about selling vaccines.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2021, 10:20:58 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 07, 2021, 10:17:43 PM
Hancock saying now that people will probably need to be vaccinated every 6 months. Or at least every year. 

This ain't going away. It was never meant to.

This isn't about fighting a virus. It's about selling vaccines.

What's the best option? Oxford vaccine none profit I thought
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 07, 2021, 10:53:10 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 07, 2021, 10:17:43 PM
Hancock saying now that people will probably need to be vaccinated every 6 months. Or at least every year. 

This ain't going away. It was never meant to.

This isn't about fighting a virus. It's about selling vaccines.

Ah sweet jesus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 07, 2021, 11:04:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 07, 2021, 10:17:43 PM
Hancock saying now that people will probably need to be vaccinated every 6 months. Or at least every year. 

This ain't going away. It was never meant to.

This isn't about fighting a virus. It's about selling vaccines.
Where's he said this? Can't find anything online to substantiate him or anyone else stating it as a fact.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on January 07, 2021, 11:05:48 PM
Good business to get into all the same.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 07, 2021, 11:09:06 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 07, 2021, 11:04:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 07, 2021, 10:17:43 PM
Hancock saying now that people will probably need to be vaccinated every 6 months. Or at least every year. 

This ain't going away. It was never meant to.

This isn't about fighting a virus. It's about selling vaccines.
Where's he said this? Can't find anything online to substantiate him or anyone else stating it as a fact.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-matt-hancock-says-latest-lockdown-will-be-the-last-but-coronavirus-jabs-might-be-needed-every-six-months-12181677
(https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-matt-hancock-says-latest-lockdown-will-be-the-last-but-coronavirus-jabs-might-be-needed-every-six-months-12181677)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 07, 2021, 11:21:39 PM
Ta. I can't believe he's come out with that tbh as the country goes into a deep depressing lockdown - whether it's true or not. I'd expect it will not go down well in senior Government circles.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 08, 2021, 12:01:30 AM
I'd wait on qualified and respected individual to come out on what "might" happen before jumping to conclusions.

Matt Hancock is politician, a member of the worst government in modern British history. A gormless buck with zero medical or scientific knowledge.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 08, 2021, 12:17:59 AM
I agree but he'd be privy to an awful lot of scientific data and opinions  to be fair.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 08, 2021, 08:16:49 AM
Cue a day of big pharma to compliment a day of you think lockdown is the only alternative you clearly don't care about anyone who dies from the flu...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 08:45:20 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 08, 2021, 08:16:49 AM
Cue a day of big pharma to compliment a day of you think lockdown is the only alternative you clearly don't care about anyone who dies from the flu...

;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 08, 2021, 09:38:03 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 07, 2021, 09:14:51 PM
Have the GAAboard daily Covid ROI V NI update stats dried up then?

There seems to be some technical difficulties at the moment on this front.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 09:47:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2021, 09:46:48 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 07, 2021, 06:08:34 PM
Milltown what's your take on the flu being totally eliminated?
Now take into consideration that this time every year we hear about our hospitals being overwhelmed and patients lying on beds in corridors.

Between January and August 2020, there were 48,168 deaths due to Covid-19 compared to 13,600 from pneumonia/flu

We don't test for flu.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 09:48:56 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2021, 10:02:03 PM
"Run it's course"

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1347200811303055364?s=21

Thick twat

You do know we are classifying people going in with a broken hip who test positive for Covid as Covid admissions rather than people admitted for a broken hip?

Thick twat.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 09:50:48 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 07, 2021, 11:09:06 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 07, 2021, 11:04:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 07, 2021, 10:17:43 PM
Hancock saying now that people will probably need to be vaccinated every 6 months. Or at least every year. 

This ain't going away. It was never meant to.

This isn't about fighting a virus. It's about selling vaccines.
Where's he said this? Can't find anything online to substantiate him or anyone else stating it as a fact.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-matt-hancock-says-latest-lockdown-will-be-the-last-but-coronavirus-jabs-might-be-needed-every-six-months-12181677
(https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-matt-hancock-says-latest-lockdown-will-be-the-last-but-coronavirus-jabs-might-be-needed-every-six-months-12181677)

Yay more lockdowns.

I can see Franko here in 2037 arguing Lockdown #85 will be the one that finally rids us of this?

Or maybe by that stage we will have grown exhausted and seen the damage lockdowns do and just accept Covid deaths every year like we do flu?

There is going to be some egg on Franko's face in a few months time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 09:52:12 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 09:47:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2021, 09:46:48 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 07, 2021, 06:08:34 PM
Milltown what's your take on the flu being totally eliminated?
Now take into consideration that this time every year we hear about our hospitals being overwhelmed and patients lying on beds in corridors.

Between January and August 2020, there were 48,168 deaths due to Covid-19 compared to 13,600 from pneumonia/flu

We don't test for flu.

So these figures are incorrect?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 09:57:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 09:52:12 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 09:47:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2021, 09:46:48 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 07, 2021, 06:08:34 PM
Milltown what's your take on the flu being totally eliminated?
Now take into consideration that this time every year we hear about our hospitals being overwhelmed and patients lying on beds in corridors.

Between January and August 2020, there were 48,168 deaths due to Covid-19 compared to 13,600 from pneumonia/flu

We don't test for flu.

So these figures are incorrect?

They're not comparable.

If we tested every person who dies during the winter flu season and attribute every death who tests positive for flu as a flu death then it's absolutely logical that those death rates would increase tenfold.

If we tested every hospital admission for flu and assigned every person who tested positive for flu as a flu admission, those statistics would increase tenfold.

The metric to keep an eye on is excess death when it comes out. In a bad flu season in 2017/18 we hit 2,101 deaths in Jan 18 - we have yet to reach that no with Covid yet.

Apparently we are to believe we have no flu this year?

Imagine if the UK ran tests for 500k people every winter to see if they had the flu and assigned anyone who died who tested positive for flu as a flu death?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 08, 2021, 09:59:19 AM
Hospital cases are a much more relevant stat than case numbers. Case numbers are really more of a barometer of things to come for the hospitals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 08, 2021, 10:15:34 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 07, 2021, 09:14:51 PM
Have the GAAboard daily Covid ROI V NI update stats dried up then?
Just for you benny
1st to 7th January incl
26 - 35,902
6 - 11,812 (equivalent c32k)
Our lot acted fast as numbers accelerated, the enforced 5 party Executive by it's very nature couldn't.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 10:20:16 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 09:57:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 09:52:12 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 09:47:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2021, 09:46:48 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 07, 2021, 06:08:34 PM
Milltown what's your take on the flu being totally eliminated?
Now take into consideration that this time every year we hear about our hospitals being overwhelmed and patients lying on beds in corridors.

Between January and August 2020, there were 48,168 deaths due to Covid-19 compared to 13,600 from pneumonia/flu

We don't test for flu.

So these figures are incorrect?

They're not comparable.

If we tested every person who dies during the winter flu season and attribute every death who tests positive for flu as a flu death then it's absolutely logical that those death rates would increase tenfold.

If we tested every hospital admission for flu and assigned every person who tested positive for flu as a flu admission, those statistics would increase tenfold.

The metric to keep an eye on is excess death when it comes out. In a bad flu season in 2017/18 we hit 2,101 deaths in Jan 18 - we have yet to reach that no with Covid yet.

Apparently we are to believe we have no flu this year?

Imagine if the UK ran tests for 500k people every winter to see if they had the flu and assigned anyone who died who tested positive for flu as a flu death?

I've just given you figures for flu deaths, actual figures.. are people making up these figures?  We are 8 days into this so I'd give it more than 8 days to get the figures for this year
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 10:22:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 09:52:12 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 09:47:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2021, 09:46:48 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 07, 2021, 06:08:34 PM
Milltown what's your take on the flu being totally eliminated?
Now take into consideration that this time every year we hear about our hospitals being overwhelmed and patients lying on beds in corridors.

Between January and August 2020, there were 48,168 deaths due to Covid-19 compared to 13,600 from pneumonia/flu

We don't test for flu.

So these figures are incorrect?

As I have said, they are not comparable.

We don't do tests to the extent we do for Covid. Of course there are going to be more recorded cases of Covid and more deaths contributed to Covid because of the criteria but they are simply not comparable.

The real metric we should be looking at this winter is excess deaths.

We had no problem with 50k excess deaths in 2017/18.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 10:24:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 08, 2021, 09:59:19 AM
Hospital cases are a much more relevant stat than case numbers. Case numbers are really more of a barometer of things to come for the hospitals.

Yet we can classify a hospital admission for someone who fell off a ladder and broke their hip as a Covid admission if they test positive, even if they show no signs of symptoms.

The level of misinformation being put out there is scary.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 08, 2021, 10:27:11 AM
It sure is ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 10:28:26 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 10:22:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 09:52:12 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 09:47:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2021, 09:46:48 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 07, 2021, 06:08:34 PM
Milltown what's your take on the flu being totally eliminated?
Now take into consideration that this time every year we hear about our hospitals being overwhelmed and patients lying on beds in corridors.

Between January and August 2020, there were 48,168 deaths due to Covid-19 compared to 13,600 from pneumonia/flu

We don't test for flu.

So these figures are incorrect?

As I have said, they are not comparable.

We don't do tests to the extent we do for Covid. Of course there are going to be more recorded cases of Covid and more deaths contributed to Covid because of the criteria but they are simply not comparable.

The real metric we should be looking at this winter is excess deaths.

We had no problem with 50k excess deaths in 2017/18.

Making stuff up and putting it on here doesn't make it true.. the year of 17/18 we had 22k deaths for flu.. not 50k, so going forward don't put 50k in your posts, that's tabloid shit.

The real metric we should be using is actual figures rather than sensational figures

Figures like I've given you are facts, and with the facts you can't spin it to work for you
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NAG1 on January 08, 2021, 10:29:35 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 10:24:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 08, 2021, 09:59:19 AM
Hospital cases are a much more relevant stat than case numbers. Case numbers are really more of a barometer of things to come for the hospitals.

Yet we can classify a hospital admission for someone who fell off a ladder and broke their hip as a Covid admission if they test positive, even if they show no signs of symptoms.

The level of misinformation being put out there is scary.

You really aren't getting this whole virus and transmission thing are you? Doesn't matter what they came into the hospital with if they are positive, they pose a risk to the staff, the patients, their family and the wider community when released so they need to be tested and need to be classified.

It's not really that hard to get, please try to keep up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on January 08, 2021, 11:42:55 AM
Went for a COVID test the other day, have to say was very impressed with how well it was organised. Within 2 mins of getting of the phone to my GP I got a text for where to go for the test with an eircode on it. Test was a little uncomfortable but over in 2 mins. Everything about the drive in was really well organised and the testers were friendly and informative. Result back in just over 24 hrs. Negative thankfully. So well done to those at least that are administering the tests in a difficult and risky environment
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 11:48:11 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on January 08, 2021, 10:29:35 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 10:24:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 08, 2021, 09:59:19 AM
Hospital cases are a much more relevant stat than case numbers. Case numbers are really more of a barometer of things to come for the hospitals.

Yet we can classify a hospital admission for someone who fell off a ladder and broke their hip as a Covid admission if they test positive, even if they show no signs of symptoms.

The level of misinformation being put out there is scary.

You really aren't getting this whole virus and transmission thing are you? Doesn't matter what they came into the hospital with if they are positive, they pose a risk to the staff, the patients, their family and the wider community when released so they need to be tested and need to be classified.

It's not really that hard to get, please try to keep up.

It's not me that's not getting it, it's you.

If we recorded cases and deaths for flu under the exact same criteria we do flu, the statistics regarding cases of flu and deaths would be through the roof.

Maybe if we had a daily testing capacity for flu of 500k we would find that flu admissions are through the roof.

Why are we classifying someone who has shown no sign or symptoms of flu, who was admitted to hospital because of appendicitis, falling of a ladder, food poisoning, a car accident, a slip on ice as a Covid admission because they tested positive for it

What do you think would happen if we used the same testing and reporting criteria for winter flu?

Are we expected to believe seasonal flu just fell off the planet this year?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 08, 2021, 12:24:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 11:48:11 AM
Are we expected to believe seasonal flu just fell off the planet this year?

You tell us, you seem to be the resident expert on flu.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 12:34:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 08, 2021, 12:24:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 11:48:11 AM
Are we expected to believe seasonal flu just fell off the planet this year?

You tell us, you seem to be the resident expert on flu.

That looks to be the case and the gobdaws lap it up without questions.

A virus that kills people in its drove every winter just magically disappeared.

Hard to argue against winter lockdowns for flu anymore in that case? They are a must to save people's lives. Oh that's right - nobody gives a crap about those who die from flu.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 08, 2021, 12:43:42 PM
Don't forget 36% of people with covid on this island we're already in hospital and caught it in hospital. Those ones more than likely passed away. Put that on top of the care home  fiasco and we have a major problem.
A public enquiry has to happen. So so badly handled
Now onto the vaccines
Is it me or is 1400 per day so underwhelming?
That in my opinion is shockingly poor figures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 12:48:34 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 07, 2021, 10:17:43 PM
Hancock saying now that people will probably need to be vaccinated every 6 months. Or at least every year. 

This ain't going away. It was never meant to.

This isn't about fighting a virus. It's about selling vaccines.
How on earth do we counter this lobotomised ignorance and plandemic conspiracy nonsense
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 08, 2021, 12:59:31 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 08, 2021, 12:43:42 PM
Don't forget 36% of people with covid on this island we're already in hospital and caught it in hospital. Those ones more than likely passed away. Put that on top of the care home  fiasco and we have a major problem.
A public enquiry has to happen. So so badly handled
Now onto the vaccines
Is it me or is 1400 per day so underwhelming?
That in my opinion is shockingly poor figures.

1,397 as of yesturday had died with Covid in N.I.

I think that figure per day is alright, considering.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 01:02:40 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 08, 2021, 12:43:42 PM
Don't forget 36% of people with covid on this island we're already in hospital and caught it in hospital. Those ones more than likely passed away. Put that on top of the care home  fiasco and we have a major problem.
A public enquiry has to happen. So so badly handled
Now onto the vaccines
Is it me or is 1400 per day so underwhelming?
That in my opinion is shockingly poor figures.

How do we keep the hospital free from Covid or any infections for that matter? Hospitals have always been known as a place to catch something.

I've been in them very regularly since March, now I haven't caught it but you have filled wards, porters, nurses, doctors, cleaners, admin, security, visitors once a week, I could go on. All of these people work daily and go home, they have families and need to shop like the rest of us. Have you a solution that will stop people bringing in Covid?

I'll give you a very live problem. Mother in-law has been in hospital from the 18th of Dec. Open heart surgery required.. Went to Antrim first and was tested, negative, moved to the Royal and was being prep'd for surgery so had all the usual checks and another covid test,  been tested positive and her husband who was in twice for visit got tested and he's negative.

The staff nurse who is a family friend for well over 45 years followed procedures and every staff member in that ward has been tested and no one has tested positive!! There is no pointing the finger here, its just how the hell does this thing operate??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 08, 2021, 01:12:38 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 08, 2021, 12:43:42 PM
Now onto the vaccines
Is it me or is 1400 per day so underwhelming?
That in my opinion is shockingly poor figures.

Vaccine rollout is going well atm with the supply we currently have in the 6 counties. Let's see what the numbers are like when the Health Centres and pharmacies (which equates to 100s of small vaccination centres to complement the large centres which are already in place) receive and start administering the Oxford vaccine from Monday on.
The future is looking alot brighter
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 01:13:37 PM
If the vaccine works.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 01:16:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 01:13:37 PM
If the vaccine works.

If it doesn't we can go back to the summer of 2020

There's defo a song in there for Bryan Adams
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 01:20:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 01:16:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 01:13:37 PM
If the vaccine works.

If it doesn't we can go back to the summer of 2020

There's defo a song in there for Bryan Adams

More failed lockdowns to come.

Some amount of flat earthers on this thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 01:23:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 01:20:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 01:16:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 01:13:37 PM
If the vaccine works.

If it doesn't we can go back to the summer of 2020

There's defo a song in there for Bryan Adams

More failed lockdowns to come.

Some amount of flat earthers on this thread.

I don't think that has a ring to it...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on January 08, 2021, 01:47:14 PM
Has RadioGaGa been about lately?

I would like to hear his take on how things are going currently and how he sees it playing out.

From the beginning (on this board) I have found him the most informative and most accurate in predicting how things will pan out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 08, 2021, 01:53:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 08, 2021, 12:48:34 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 07, 2021, 10:17:43 PM
Hancock saying now that people will probably need to be vaccinated every 6 months. Or at least every year. 

This ain't going away. It was never meant to.

This isn't about fighting a virus. It's about selling vaccines.
How on earth do we counter this lobotomised ignorance and plandemic conspiracy nonsense

You take politicians and pharmaceuticals at their word then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 08, 2021, 02:01:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2021, 10:15:34 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 07, 2021, 09:14:51 PM
Have the GAAboard daily Covid ROI V NI update stats dried up then?
Just for you benny
1st to 7th January incl
26 - 35,902
6 - 11,812 (equivalent c32k)
Our lot acted fast as numbers accelerated, the enforced 5 party Executive by it's very nature couldn't.
Oh, equivocation when it suits, quelle surprise. Still plenty of look over there Governing and PR going on anyway. Saying the NI Executive are a dose isn't exactly news either.

See Ewan McKenna going for a bit of a Piers Morgan type critique of ROI Government performance on the Vaccine roll out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 08, 2021, 02:15:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 09:48:56 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2021, 10:02:03 PM
"Run it's course"

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1347200811303055364?s=21

Thick twat

You do know we are classifying people going in with a broken hip who test positive for Covid as Covid admissions rather than people admitted for a broken hip?

Thick twat.

You do know that most of the data presented there concerned general patient levels in hospitals regardless of what they were in for?

You are not easily embarrassed, I'll give you that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 08, 2021, 02:21:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 08, 2021, 10:15:34 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 07, 2021, 09:14:51 PM
Have the GAAboard daily Covid ROI V NI update stats dried up then?
Just for you benny
1st to 7th January incl
26 - 35,902
6 - 11,812 (equivalent c32k)
Our lot acted fast as numbers accelerated, the enforced 5 party Executive by it's very nature couldn't.

Did they though... the numbers would certainly say otherwise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 08, 2021, 02:33:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 01:20:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 01:16:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 01:13:37 PM
If the vaccine works.

If it doesn't we can go back to the summer of 2020

There's defo a song in there for Bryan Adams

More failed lockdowns to come.

Some amount of flat earthers on this thread.
What's your answer? Cancer patients having urgent surgery cancelled in Belfast Trust due to an 80% rise in Covid hospitalizations since Christmas Day. Do we just let people continue to do what they want and only the healthy survive? It's as well for all the arseholes saying it doesn't affect most of the population - directly that might be the case but when urgent surgery is cancelled and the NHS is coming apart at the seams it will surely impact those people eventually.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 02:34:09 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 08, 2021, 02:15:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 09:48:56 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2021, 10:02:03 PM
"Run it's course"

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1347200811303055364?s=21

Thick twat

You do know we are classifying people going in with a broken hip who test positive for Covid as Covid admissions rather than people admitted for a broken hip?

Thick twat.

You do know that most of the data presented there concerned general patient levels in hospitals regardless of what they were in for?

You are not easily embarrassed, I'll give you that.

Most of the data?

I just don't see how we can defend this reaction and the huge consequences of it when we are happy to let 50k deaths happen every winter without batting an eyelid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 02:39:22 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 08, 2021, 02:33:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 01:20:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 01:16:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 01:13:37 PM
If the vaccine works.

If it doesn't we can go back to the summer of 2020

There's defo a song in there for Bryan Adams

More failed lockdowns to come.

Some amount of flat earthers on this thread.
What's your answer? Cancer patients having urgent surgery cancelled in Belfast Trust due to an 80% rise in Covid hospitalizations since Christmas Day. Do we just let people continue to do what they want and only the healthy survive? It's as well for all the arseholes saying it doesn't affect most of the population - directly that might be the case but when urgent surgery is cancelled and the NHS is coming apart at the seams it will surely impact those people eventually.

READ THE THREAD.

I've answered this to about 20 different posters at this time.

Reasonable restrictions and get on with things.

You can continue to focus on Covid and ignore all the other issues all you like but that doesn't mean they go away.

Do you think the following people are arseholes?

- People with mental health
- Men, women and childrens who are victims of domestic violence and other forms of abuse
- People with mental and physical disabilities denied their support services and care
- People who have lost their jobs and livelihoods, people who know have long term unemployment to look forward to, can't repay their mortgages due to the financial implications of lockdowns
- Children who have their education derailed due to the closure of schools and universities, who have their social development stunted due to not being able to see people
- People who live alone and now become socially isolated and the knock on mental

That's a small subsection of people directly impacted by lockdowns, they're just arseholes though right? Not even worth a momentary thought on how gov strategy gives them a 2 finger salute.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 08, 2021, 02:40:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 02:34:09 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 08, 2021, 02:15:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 09:48:56 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2021, 10:02:03 PM
"Run it's course"

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1347200811303055364?s=21

Thick twat

You do know we are classifying people going in with a broken hip who test positive for Covid as Covid admissions rather than people admitted for a broken hip?

Thick twat.

You do know that most of the data presented there concerned general patient levels in hospitals regardless of what they were in for?

You are not easily embarrassed, I'll give you that.

Most of the data?

I just don't see how we can defend this reaction and the huge consequences of it when we are happy to let 50k deaths happen every winter without batting an eyelid.

Not true. As has been proven. But as per your MO you ignore what doesn't fit. Problem being that everyone else sees the posts as well, so everyone knows you are, as per usual, talking crap.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 08, 2021, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 02:34:09 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 08, 2021, 02:15:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 09:48:56 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2021, 10:02:03 PM
"Run it's course"

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1347200811303055364?s=21

Thick twat

You do know we are classifying people going in with a broken hip who test positive for Covid as Covid admissions rather than people admitted for a broken hip?

Thick twat.

You do know that most of the data presented there concerned general patient levels in hospitals regardless of what they were in for?

You are not easily embarrassed, I'll give you that.

Most of the data?

I just don't see how we can defend this reaction and the huge consequences of it when we are happy to let 50k deaths happen every winter without batting an eyelid.

Yes.  Most of the data.

When did we start having 50k deaths every winter?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 02:44:33 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 08, 2021, 02:40:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 02:34:09 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 08, 2021, 02:15:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 09:48:56 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2021, 10:02:03 PM
"Run it's course"

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1347200811303055364?s=21

Thick twat

You do know we are classifying people going in with a broken hip who test positive for Covid as Covid admissions rather than people admitted for a broken hip?

Thick twat.

You do know that most of the data presented there concerned general patient levels in hospitals regardless of what they were in for?

You are not easily embarrassed, I'll give you that.

Most of the data?

I just don't see how we can defend this reaction and the huge consequences of it when we are happy to let 50k deaths happen every winter without batting an eyelid.

Not true. As has been proven. But as per your MO you ignore what doesn't fit. Problem being that everyone else sees the posts as well, so everyone knows you are, as per usual, talking crap.

Absolutely true.

Post up some of your outrage here about it at the time? Post up the demands for lockdowns.

50k excess deaths.

You're just spouting complete and utter untruths. Barely an eyelid was batted, it was yesterday's news before you knew it.

You're talking out your hole and you have a massive problem with the truth.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 02:46:14 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 08, 2021, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 02:34:09 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 08, 2021, 02:15:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 09:48:56 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2021, 10:02:03 PM
"Run it's course"

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1347200811303055364?s=21

Thick twat

You do know we are classifying people going in with a broken hip who test positive for Covid as Covid admissions rather than people admitted for a broken hip?

Thick twat.

You do know that most of the data presented there concerned general patient levels in hospitals regardless of what they were in for?

You are not easily embarrassed, I'll give you that.

Most of the data?

I just don't see how we can defend this reaction and the huge consequences of it when we are happy to let 50k deaths happen every winter without batting an eyelid.

Yes.  Most of the data.

When did we start having 50k deaths every winter?

50k excess deaths in the UK in th17/18 winter and nobody bats an eyelid.

We had 2,101 in the O6 in Jan 18 - a higher peak than any month during Covid to date - nobody batted an eyelid.

Please feel free to show me your outrage at the time. Go on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2021, 02:46:50 PM
22k deaths attributed to flu that year, not 50k :)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 08, 2021, 02:57:00 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 02:44:33 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 08, 2021, 02:40:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 02:34:09 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 08, 2021, 02:15:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 08, 2021, 09:48:56 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2021, 10:02:03 PM
"Run it's course"

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1347200811303055364?s=21

Thick twat

You do know we are classifying people going in with a broken hip who test positive for Covid as Covid admissions rather than people admitted for a broken hip?

Thick twat.

You do know that most of the data presented there concerned general patient levels in hospitals regardless of what they were in for?

You are not easily embarrassed, I'll give you that.

Most of the data?

I just don't see how we can defend this reaction and the huge consequences of it when we are happy to let 50k deaths happen every winter without batting an eyelid.

Not true. As has been proven. But as per your MO you ignore what doesn't fit. Problem being that everyone else sees the posts as well, so everyone knows you are, as per usual, talking crap.

Absolutely true.

Post up some of your outrage here about it at the time? Post up the demands for lockdowns.

50k excess deaths.

You're just spouting complete and utter untruths. Barely an eyelid was batted, it was yesterday's news before you knew it.

You're talking out your hole and you have a massive problem with the truth.

So we've changed from batted an eye to outrage? I've already posted up examples of how newsworthy it was. You just want to ignore this so you can use it to try and normalise this year. You're a completely dishonest poster. And that's without going back over the points which you want to ignore, which includes there was no lockdowns then and there was this year. Plus your comparing the worst year in 40 years with this year to try and make it sound like less of a difference.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 08, 2021, 04:38:28 PM
Major incident declared in London. Answering 8000-9000 ambulance calls per day. Numbers indicate 1 in 30 Londoners have Covid. 1325 UK Covid deaths. Normal flu season, aye.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 08, 2021, 05:01:33 PM
I am a bit worried we are not a kick in the arse away from that happening here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 08, 2021, 06:18:58 PM
21 in NI today which is relatively high, presumably we are still a few weeks away from the Christmas lag peak. The mid to late January numbers will likely be horrific throughout the isles.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 08, 2021, 06:38:40 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 08, 2021, 06:18:58 PM
21 in NI today which is relatively high, presumably we are still a few weeks away from the Christmas lag peak. The mid to late January numbers will likely be horrific throughout the isles.

Not supposed to be this weekend?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 08, 2021, 06:46:44 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 08, 2021, 06:38:40 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 08, 2021, 06:18:58 PM
21 in NI today which is relatively high, presumably we are still a few weeks away from the Christmas lag peak. The mid to late January numbers will likely be horrific throughout the isles.

Not supposed to be this weekend?
Arlene said earlier they think infections have peaked with the infection peak in latter half of this month.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on January 08, 2021, 07:04:48 PM
Another record confirmed case number for the ROI with 8248.

The 5 days of this week highlights the clearing of backlog cases.

Positive swabs 28007
Confirmed cases 34040
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 09, 2021, 11:23:50 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 08, 2021, 06:46:44 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 08, 2021, 06:38:40 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 08, 2021, 06:18:58 PM
21 in NI today which is relatively high, presumably we are still a few weeks away from the Christmas lag peak. The mid to late January numbers will likely be horrific throughout the isles.

Not supposed to be this weekend?
Arlene said earlier they think infections have peaked with the infection peak in latter half of this month.
Reading in today's I newspaper that peak daily death figures aren't expected until the final days of January
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on January 09, 2021, 12:51:08 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 09, 2021, 11:23:50 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 08, 2021, 06:46:44 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 08, 2021, 06:38:40 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 08, 2021, 06:18:58 PM
21 in NI today which is relatively high, presumably we are still a few weeks away from the Christmas lag peak. The mid to late January numbers will likely be horrific throughout the isles.

Not supposed to be this weekend?
Arlene said earlier they think infections have peaked with the infection peak in latter half of this month.
Reading in today's I newspaper that peak daily death figures aren't expected until the final days of January

That'll make for grim reading.  That's 3 weeks away.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 09, 2021, 03:18:29 PM
1400 odd cases today. 9 deaths. 35 more in inpatients. There has been a real steady stream into hospital this week plus the numbers have been very high every day so you'd imagine hospital admissions will just continue to grow and grow :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 09, 2021, 06:12:51 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55427659

A lot of interesting stats here. Especially the excess deaths, Id be of opinion ( unprofessional opinion that is) that the excess deaths are due to collapse of heath service and lack of GP contact them anything else
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 09, 2021, 06:31:55 PM
4,842 in the 26 counties, the backlog is more or less sorted, Monaghan leading the way.
Things will begin to settle during the week, both because of the restrictions and people realising after Xmas that there was a problem, but some people diagnosed this week will end up in hospital this week and ICU the week after.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Norf Tyrone on January 09, 2021, 07:38:34 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 09, 2021, 06:12:51 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55427659

A lot of interesting stats here. Especially the excess deaths, Id be of opinion ( unprofessional opinion that is) that the excess deaths are due to collapse of heath service and lack of GP contact them anything else

The pattern is repeated throughout the world though?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tubberman on January 09, 2021, 08:18:10 PM
yes, but I'd wait til  >70s and other vulerable groups are vaccinated, not just >80s.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 09, 2021, 08:20:08 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

A former uk govt advisor David King said the other day this is the what the govt will go with but it will lead to many mutations if let rip among everyone else. He reckoned 80% of the population needs vaccinated to ensure this us put to bed?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 08:32:00 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 09, 2021, 08:20:08 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

A former uk govt advisor David King said the other day this is the what the govt will go with but it will lead to many mutations if let rip among everyone else. He reckoned 80% of the population needs vaccinated to ensure this us put to bed?
Devi Sridhar says 80-90%, she's been arguably the best commentator on this entire pandemic, certainly one of the best, very good interview with Krishnan Guru-Murthy here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXP7WwXW5KA
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 09, 2021, 08:34:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 08:32:00 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 09, 2021, 08:20:08 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

A former uk govt advisor David King said the other day this is the what the govt will go with but it will lead to many mutations if let rip among everyone else. He reckoned 80% of the population needs vaccinated to ensure this us put to bed?
Devi Sridhar says 80-90%, she's been arguably the best commentator on this entire pandemic, certainly one of the best, very good interview with Krishnan Guru-Murthy here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXP7WwXW5KA

sid what is your occupation?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 08:41:02 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 09, 2021, 08:34:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 08:32:00 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 09, 2021, 08:20:08 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

A former uk govt advisor David King said the other day this is the what the govt will go with but it will lead to many mutations if let rip among everyone else. He reckoned 80% of the population needs vaccinated to ensure this us put to bed?
Devi Sridhar says 80-90%, she's been arguably the best commentator on this entire pandemic, certainly one of the best, very good interview with Krishnan Guru-Murthy here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXP7WwXW5KA

sid what is your occupation?
I'm a full time live in carer, not sure why it would matter
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 08:49:25 PM
Yes but if all over 70s and vulnerable vaccinated which means 95% of deaths are eliminated and 80% hospitalised patients why would restrictions be kept
Why woukd any be kept?
Surely no reason too
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 08:59:11 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 08:49:25 PM
Yes but if all over 70s and vulnerable vaccinated which means 95% of deaths are eliminated and 80% hospitalised patients why would restrictions be kept
Why woukd any be kept?
Surely no reason too
Because hospitals can still be overrun and many people under 70 can still either die or suffer from long Covid

Even if all over 70s and front line workers were vaccinated - and that would clearly be a good thing - releasing restrictions when you get to that point is still a let it rip scenario for everybody else, and that could cause a public health catastrophe - it could also mean we would have to continually revaccinate populations, as the virus never disappears if restrictions are released and the pace of vaccinations would not be able to keep pace with the rate of transmission - immunity via vaccine would eventually wear off

It could also lead to mutations - it seems that the more the virus spreads, the more it mutates - we may be able to deal with the current UK and South African variations via the vaccines we now have, but who can say for certain that that will be the case in the future

A very phased reintroduction to normality in tandem with mass vaccinations seems the safest bet but it will likely mean no full football stadiums for a long time yet


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 09, 2021, 09:11:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 08:59:11 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 08:49:25 PM
Yes but if all over 70s and vulnerable vaccinated which means 95% of deaths are eliminated and 80% hospitalised patients why would restrictions be kept
Why woukd any be kept?
Surely no reason too
Because hospitals can still be overrun and many people under 70 can still either die or suffer from long Covid

Even if all over 70s and front line workers were vaccinated - and that would clearly be a good thing - releasing restrictions when you get to that point is still a let it rip scenario for everybody else, and that could cause a public health catastrophe - it could also mean we would have to continually revaccinate populations, as the virus never disappears if restrictions are released and the pace of vaccinations would not be able to keep pace with the rate of transmission - immunity via vaccine would eventually wear off

It could also lead to mutations - it seems that the more the virus spreads, the more it mutates - we may be able to deal with the current UK and South African variations via the vaccines we now have, but who can say for certain that that will be the case in the future

A very phased reintroduction to normality in tandem with mass vaccinations seems the safest bet but it will likely mean no full football stadiums for a long time yet
200 to 500 is the most we had in stadiums since early March. Be interesting to see will those strict set attendances will be increased when restrictions are lifted, the amount vaccinated should play a part in any decisions made.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on January 09, 2021, 09:25:00 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 08:59:11 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 08:49:25 PM
Yes but if all over 70s and vulnerable vaccinated which means 95% of deaths are eliminated and 80% hospitalised patients why would restrictions be kept
Why woukd any be kept?
Surely no reason too
Because hospitals can still be overrun and many people under 70 can still either die or suffer from long Covid

Even if all over 70s and front line workers were vaccinated - and that would clearly be a good thing - releasing restrictions when you get to that point is still a let it rip scenario for everybody else, and that could cause a public health catastrophe - it could also mean we would have to continually revaccinate populations, as the virus never disappears if restrictions are released and the pace of vaccinations would not be able to keep pace with the rate of transmission - immunity via vaccine would eventually wear off

It could also lead to mutations - it seems that the more the virus spreads, the more it mutates - we may be able to deal with the current UK and South African variations via the vaccines we now have, but who can say for certain that that will be the case in the future

A very phased reintroduction to normality in tandem with mass vaccinations seems the safest bet but it will likely mean no full football stadiums for a long time yet




You would like to think that with seasonality involved and naturally less numbers coming into the summer then things could be lifted significantly when the over 70s are done.

Do they reckon everyone will be vaccinated by next winter ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 09, 2021, 09:40:04 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 09, 2021, 09:25:00 PM
Do they reckon everyone will be vaccinated by next winter ?

I think all adults could be vaccinated by the Autumn. the pace will step up as other vaccines become available and as production facilities gear up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 09, 2021, 09:45:04 PM
Hope the fukwits are happy.

When people needing acute care are essentially turned away at the door - the health service has collapsed.

"lockdowns stop people getting treatment" they said.

Those that knew better told them it was the opposite.

Well, here we are, continued use of watered down measures leads to people not getting treated because there are no available staff or beds due to the surge in additional patients needing acute care due to covid.

Of course - expect the fukwits to try and twist it around into something else. Pity all the stupid c*nts couldn't be packed away off to a planet of their own so the rest of us don't have to live with the effects their stupidity has on our lives.


Just remember this - the more chances you give the virus to reproduce (i.e. by spreading it further), the more chances you give it to mutate to the point of vaccine escape.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 09, 2021, 09:47:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2021, 08:59:11 PM
It could also lead to mutations - it seems that the more the virus spreads, the more it mutates


There is no seems about it - that's an accepted norm of RNA reproduction. Imperfect (relative to DNA) and leads to (relatively) large amounts of mutations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 10:06:55 PM
Have to agree Radio some people need to cop themselves on
But our health system is so badly underfunded this was always going to happen sometime
People not wearing masks in shops
No checks at airports
Cross border travel no stops
2 full weeks into lockdown another 4 to go and more I would think
Vaccination wise this thing could snowball very quick with more vaccinations coming. I would not be one bit surprised if the uk are hitting 4 million a week by March
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 09, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

Even if we all get vaccinated, will it eliminate the virus? I highly doubt it. It's unclear whether a vaccinated person can still pass on the virus.

Anyway, what will life be like post lockdowns? It doesn't bear thinking about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 11:45:36 PM
Bennycake I'm not getting my hopes up with the vaccines
Don't know why just a bad feeling
Things look very very bleak at present
It's a tough tough slug it really is
I've never felt so downbeat
Hopefully things improve
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2021, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

Even if we all get vaccinated, will it eliminate the virus? I highly doubt it. It's unclear whether a vaccinated person can still pass on the virus.

Anyway, what will life be like post lockdowns? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Will life be better with vaccinations or not?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 11:53:51 PM
I don't know milltown
I will let you know in 6 weeks if we see some changes
Maybe small but wil soon see
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:01:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2021, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

Even if we all get vaccinated, will it eliminate the virus? I highly doubt it. It's unclear whether a vaccinated person can still pass on the virus.

Anyway, what will life be like post lockdowns? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Will life be better with vaccinations or not?

As smurfy alluded, I don't think this is going away, even with mass vaccination.

Hancock saying vaccinations will probably have to happen every 6/12 months, and the possibility of future lockdowns, particularly in winter. Well, reading between the lines, this virus is here to stay.

I mean, all the talk now is mass vaccination mass vaccination, we're going to get XXX number vaccinated by March/April etc. Ok fair enough, but that's obviously not going to be the answer if Hancock is suggesting more jabs in the future. Why would he say that? They obviously know that the double dose vaccine for everyone isn't going to be enough.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 12:09:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:01:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2021, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

Even if we all get vaccinated, will it eliminate the virus? I highly doubt it. It's unclear whether a vaccinated person can still pass on the virus.

Anyway, what will life be like post lockdowns? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Will life be better with vaccinations or not?

As smurfy alluded, I don't think this is going away, even with mass vaccination.

Hancock saying vaccinations will probably have to happen every 6/12 months, and the possibility of future lockdowns, particularly in winter. Well, reading between the lines, this virus is here to stay.

I mean, all the talk now is mass vaccination mass vaccination, we're going to get XXX number vaccinated by March/April etc. Ok fair enough, but that's obviously not going to be the answer if Hancock is suggesting more jabs in the future. Why would he say that? They obviously know that the double dose vaccine for everyone isn't going to be enough.

No it's not entirely going away, it could be the new flu. We'll get the jab every year and get on with our lives...

But is this the same Hancock who couldn't organise a photo shoot at a surgery? Be like listening to Poots ffs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:18:13 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 12:09:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:01:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2021, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

Even if we all get vaccinated, will it eliminate the virus? I highly doubt it. It's unclear whether a vaccinated person can still pass on the virus.

Anyway, what will life be like post lockdowns? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Will life be better with vaccinations or not?

As smurfy alluded, I don't think this is going away, even with mass vaccination.

Hancock saying vaccinations will probably have to happen every 6/12 months, and the possibility of future lockdowns, particularly in winter. Well, reading between the lines, this virus is here to stay.

I mean, all the talk now is mass vaccination mass vaccination, we're going to get XXX number vaccinated by March/April etc. Ok fair enough, but that's obviously not going to be the answer if Hancock is suggesting more jabs in the future. Why would he say that? They obviously know that the double dose vaccine for everyone isn't going to be enough.

No it's not entirely going away, it could be the new flu. We'll get the jab every year and get on with our lives...

But is this the same Hancock who couldn't organise a photo shoot at a surgery? Be like listening to Poots ffs

If it was only a jab every year, that's fine. But it won't be.

I think they're deliberately giving us a glimpse of the future. That wasn't a schoolboy error. He was aware of what he was saying. Anyway, Luke O'Neill has said much more on what the future will entail.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 12:23:32 AM
It could be, but again, what would you rather have? Currently life is shit, but a vaccine life or a life were the vulnerable are safer is better to this shit show
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 10, 2021, 12:25:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2021, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

Even if we all get vaccinated, will it eliminate the virus? I highly doubt it. It's unclear whether a vaccinated person can still pass on the virus.

Anyway, what will life be like post lockdowns? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Will life be better with vaccinations or not?

What do you think? We have been scared into this position despite 99.7% of the population being completely safe from dying from this virus. We are going to be a slave to this for the rest of our lives. Pharmaceutical companies own us now!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 12:32:58 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 10, 2021, 12:25:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2021, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

Even if we all get vaccinated, will it eliminate the virus? I highly doubt it. It's unclear whether a vaccinated person can still pass on the virus.

Anyway, what will life be like post lockdowns? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Will life be better with vaccinations or not?

What do you think? We have been scared into this position despite 99.7% of the population being completely safe from dying from this virus. We are going to be a slave to this for the rest of our lives. Pharmaceutical companies own us now!

It's simple, just don't take it. We've been taking vaccines since birth but you're unsure now? You take any medication or know any family that take it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 10, 2021, 12:38:36 AM
Well all the medical advisors couldn't be wrong. Chief advisor of the British government says the vaccine is the way out. Let's see. We should see changes around the start of March
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:39:01 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 12:23:32 AM
It could be, but again, what would you rather have? Currently life is shit, but a vaccine life or a life were the vulnerable are safer is better to this shit show

It's a catch 22 situation, isn't it? The way they're selling it is only mass vaccination will get us out of this. I really don't think it will.

There are millions who won't want to get the jab: many who are younger, healthier, sceptical, those who don't see themselves as a risk, or want to get frig knows what injected into them. Many will resist, but there will be no flights, holidays, jobs, concerts, shopping, football, cinema, eating out, doctor/hospital/dentist appts, kids at school if they don't get the vaccine. Even if they don't ever get the virus, it's a great life they're going to have!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 10, 2021, 12:41:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 12:32:58 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 10, 2021, 12:25:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2021, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

Even if we all get vaccinated, will it eliminate the virus? I highly doubt it. It's unclear whether a vaccinated person can still pass on the virus.

Anyway, what will life be like post lockdowns? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Will life be better with vaccinations or not?

What do you think? We have been scared into this position despite 99.7% of the population being completely safe from dying from this virus. We are going to be a slave to this for the rest of our lives. Pharmaceutical companies own us now!

It's simple, just don't take it. We've been taking vaccines since birth but you're unsure now? You take any medication or know any family that take it?

Did you ever take a Vaccine that was less than a year old up to now?

Also the Lynch mob will be out with pitch-forks for those who absent!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on January 10, 2021, 12:41:57 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 10, 2021, 12:25:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2021, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

Even if we all get vaccinated, will it eliminate the virus? I highly doubt it. It's unclear whether a vaccinated person can still pass on the virus.

Anyway, what will life be like post lockdowns? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Will life be better with vaccinations or not?

What do you think? We have been scared into this position despite 99.7% of the population being completely safe from dying from this virus. We are going to be a slave to this for the rest of our lives. Pharmaceutical companies own us now!
Slaves to this for the rest of our lives?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 12:43:39 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 10, 2021, 12:41:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 12:32:58 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 10, 2021, 12:25:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2021, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

Even if we all get vaccinated, will it eliminate the virus? I highly doubt it. It's unclear whether a vaccinated person can still pass on the virus.

Anyway, what will life be like post lockdowns? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Will life be better with vaccinations or not?

What do you think? We have been scared into this position despite 99.7% of the population being completely safe from dying from this virus. We are going to be a slave to this for the rest of our lives. Pharmaceutical companies own us now!

It's simple, just don't take it. We've been taking vaccines since birth but you're unsure now? You take any medication or know any family that take it?

Did you ever take a Vaccine that was less than a year old up to now?

Also the Lynch mob will be out with pitch-forks for those who absent!

So answer my question first please
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 10, 2021, 12:45:40 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:01:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2021, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

Even if we all get vaccinated, will it eliminate the virus? I highly doubt it. It's unclear whether a vaccinated person can still pass on the virus.

Anyway, what will life be like post lockdowns? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Will life be better with vaccinations or not?

As smurfy alluded, I don't think this is going away, even with mass vaccination.

Hancock saying vaccinations will probably have to happen every 6/12 months, and the possibility of future lockdowns, particularly in winter. Well, reading between the lines, this virus is here to stay.

I mean, all the talk now is mass vaccination mass vaccination, we're going to get XXX number vaccinated by March/April etc. Ok fair enough, but that's obviously not going to be the answer if Hancock is suggesting more jabs in the future. Why would he say that? They obviously know that the double dose vaccine for everyone isn't going to be enough.

Stop listening/reading to whatever he says.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:46:45 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 10, 2021, 12:25:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2021, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

Even if we all get vaccinated, will it eliminate the virus? I highly doubt it. It's unclear whether a vaccinated person can still pass on the virus.

Anyway, what will life be like post lockdowns? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Will life be better with vaccinations or not?

What do you think? We have been scared into this position despite 99.7% of the population being completely safe from dying from this virus. We are going to be a slave to this for the rest of our lives. Pharmaceutical companies own us now!

Yeah I agree. But this about more than just selling vaccines.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:50:17 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 10, 2021, 12:45:40 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:01:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2021, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

Even if we all get vaccinated, will it eliminate the virus? I highly doubt it. It's unclear whether a vaccinated person can still pass on the virus.

Anyway, what will life be like post lockdowns? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Will life be better with vaccinations or not?

As smurfy alluded, I don't think this is going away, even with mass vaccination.

Hancock saying vaccinations will probably have to happen every 6/12 months, and the possibility of future lockdowns, particularly in winter. Well, reading between the lines, this virus is here to stay.

I mean, all the talk now is mass vaccination mass vaccination, we're going to get XXX number vaccinated by March/April etc. Ok fair enough, but that's obviously not going to be the answer if Hancock is suggesting more jabs in the future. Why would he say that? They obviously know that the double dose vaccine for everyone isn't going to be enough.

Stop listening/reading to whatever he says.

Do you think he's some loose cannon just shouting his mouth off? He knows what he's saying, because he's been told to say it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 10, 2021, 12:50:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 12:43:39 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 10, 2021, 12:41:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 12:32:58 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 10, 2021, 12:25:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2021, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

Even if we all get vaccinated, will it eliminate the virus? I highly doubt it. It's unclear whether a vaccinated person can still pass on the virus.

Anyway, what will life be like post lockdowns? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Will life be better with vaccinations or not?

What do you think? We have been scared into this position despite 99.7% of the population being completely safe from dying from this virus. We are going to be a slave to this for the rest of our lives. Pharmaceutical companies own us now!

It's simple, just don't take it. We've been taking vaccines since birth but you're unsure now? You take any medication or know any family that take it?

Did you ever take a Vaccine that was less than a year old up to now?

Also the Lynch mob will be out with pitch-forks for those who absent!

So answer my question first please

I plan not to take it or let the family take it. It will have social ramifications for us!

Instinct or something makes me smell a rat here. Something is not right. Always trust your instincts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 12:54:38 AM
That's not what I asked, you're Angelo style is boring, have you taken medication or has your family taken medication?

Medication that you or family has taken has been approved and put through the same measure of approval.

But medication you took back in the 70's is safer than medication that's being approved now?

So have you taken medication and had your family taken vaccines in the past?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 10, 2021, 12:57:43 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:50:17 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 10, 2021, 12:45:40 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:01:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2021, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

Even if we all get vaccinated, will it eliminate the virus? I highly doubt it. It's unclear whether a vaccinated person can still pass on the virus.

Anyway, what will life be like post lockdowns? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Will life be better with vaccinations or not?

As smurfy alluded, I don't think this is going away, even with mass vaccination.

Hancock saying vaccinations will probably have to happen every 6/12 months, and the possibility of future lockdowns, particularly in winter. Well, reading between the lines, this virus is here to stay.

I mean, all the talk now is mass vaccination mass vaccination, we're going to get XXX number vaccinated by March/April etc. Ok fair enough, but that's obviously not going to be the answer if Hancock is suggesting more jabs in the future. Why would he say that? They obviously know that the double dose vaccine for everyone isn't going to be enough.

Stop listening/reading to whatever he says.

Do you think he's some loose cannon just shouting his mouth off? He knows what he's saying, because he's been told to say it.
Most of what he says is either his own guessing or told the guess work of some other gormless bucko.  Stick to views of someone with medical or scientific knowledge.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 10, 2021, 01:02:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 12:54:38 AM
That's not what I asked, you're Angelo style is boring, have you taken medication or has your family taken medication?

Medication that you or family has taken has been approved and put through the same measure of approval.

But medication you took back in the 70's is safer than medication that's being approved now?

So have you taken medication and had your family taken vaccines in the past?
Yes, my family have taken vaccines and medication.

There is something not right with the whole package of this. 

I am not scared of this Virus, I am scared of how this virus is being used.

That's my personal opinion. Each to their own.

I hope I am wrong about my distrust. I really do. I've never wanted to be more wrong in my life.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 01:05:34 AM
Right, so that's something you and your family will do, your wife and kids are very obedient it seems
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 10, 2021, 01:12:32 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 01:05:34 AM
Right, so that's something you and your family will do, your wife and kids are very obedient it seems

We have a democratic house. This is not just my decision alone.

Do you believe in Democracy or are you the major influence in your family?

Once again, there is something not right with the whole package of this.

I am not scared of this Virus, I am scared of how this virus is being used.

That's my personal opinion. Each to their own.

I hope I am wrong about my distrust. I really do. I've never wanted to be more wrong in my life.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 01:13:41 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 10, 2021, 12:57:43 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:50:17 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 10, 2021, 12:45:40 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:01:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2021, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

Even if we all get vaccinated, will it eliminate the virus? I highly doubt it. It's unclear whether a vaccinated person can still pass on the virus.

Anyway, what will life be like post lockdowns? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Will life be better with vaccinations or not?

As smurfy alluded, I don't think this is going away, even with mass vaccination.

Hancock saying vaccinations will probably have to happen every 6/12 months, and the possibility of future lockdowns, particularly in winter. Well, reading between the lines, this virus is here to stay.

I mean, all the talk now is mass vaccination mass vaccination, we're going to get XXX number vaccinated by March/April etc. Ok fair enough, but that's obviously not going to be the answer if Hancock is suggesting more jabs in the future. Why would he say that? They obviously know that the double dose vaccine for everyone isn't going to be enough.

Stop listening/reading to whatever he says.

Do you think he's some loose cannon just shouting his mouth off? He knows what he's saying, because he's been told to say it.
Most of what he says is either his own guessing or told the guess work of some other gormless bucko.  Stick to views of someone with medical or scientific knowledge.

Ok how about Luke O'Neill saying similar. Go to 04:15

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A2elYr8GPo8
(https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A2elYr8GPo8)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 01:16:10 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 10, 2021, 01:02:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 12:54:38 AM
That's not what I asked, you're Angelo style is boring, have you taken medication or has your family taken medication?

Medication that you or family has taken has been approved and put through the same measure of approval.

But medication you took back in the 70's is safer than medication that's being approved now?

So have you taken medication and had your family taken vaccines in the past?
Yes, my family have taken vaccines and medication.

There is something not right with the whole package of this. 

I am not scared of this Virus, I am scared of how this virus is being used.

That's my personal opinion. Each to their own.

I hope I am wrong about my distrust. I really do. I've never wanted to be more wrong in my life.

You're not wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 01:20:11 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 01:16:10 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 10, 2021, 01:02:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 12:54:38 AM
That's not what I asked, you're Angelo style is boring, have you taken medication or has your family taken medication?

Medication that you or family has taken has been approved and put through the same measure of approval.

But medication you took back in the 70's is safer than medication that's being approved now?

So have you taken medication and had your family taken vaccines in the past?
Yes, my family have taken vaccines and medication.

There is something not right with the whole package of this. 

I am not scared of this Virus, I am scared of how this virus is being used.

That's my personal opinion. Each to their own.

I hope I am wrong about my distrust. I really do. I've never wanted to be more wrong in my life.

You're not wrong.

Do you know that? You get your degree lately or is this information you gathered on Facebook


My family will do what they want, they are more intelligent than me, I'll be taking it when available
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 10, 2021, 01:27:54 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 01:13:41 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 10, 2021, 12:57:43 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:50:17 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 10, 2021, 12:45:40 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:01:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2021, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

Even if we all get vaccinated, will it eliminate the virus? I highly doubt it. It's unclear whether a vaccinated person can still pass on the virus.

Anyway, what will life be like post lockdowns? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Will life be better with vaccinations or not?

As smurfy alluded, I don't think this is going away, even with mass vaccination.

Hancock saying vaccinations will probably have to happen every 6/12 months, and the possibility of future lockdowns, particularly in winter. Well, reading between the lines, this virus is here to stay.

I mean, all the talk now is mass vaccination mass vaccination, we're going to get XXX number vaccinated by March/April etc. Ok fair enough, but that's obviously not going to be the answer if Hancock is suggesting more jabs in the future. Why would he say that? They obviously know that the double dose vaccine for everyone isn't going to be enough.

Stop listening/reading to whatever he says.

Do you think he's some loose cannon just shouting his mouth off? He knows what he's saying, because he's been told to say it.
Most of what he says is either his own guessing or told the guess work of some other gormless bucko.  Stick to views of someone with medical or scientific knowledge.

Ok how about Luke O'Neill saying similar. Go to 04:15

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A2elYr8GPo8
(https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A2elYr8GPo8)
More speculation. Long term mask wearing is a possibility as has been done in Asian countries for years.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 01:31:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 01:20:11 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 01:16:10 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 10, 2021, 01:02:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 12:54:38 AM
That's not what I asked, you're Angelo style is boring, have you taken medication or has your family taken medication?

Medication that you or family has taken has been approved and put through the same measure of approval.

But medication you took back in the 70's is safer than medication that's being approved now?

So have you taken medication and had your family taken vaccines in the past?
Yes, my family have taken vaccines and medication.

There is something not right with the whole package of this. 

I am not scared of this Virus, I am scared of how this virus is being used.

That's my personal opinion. Each to their own.

I hope I am wrong about my distrust. I really do. I've never wanted to be more wrong in my life.

You're not wrong.

Do you know that? You get your degree lately or is this information you gathered on Facebook


My family will do what they want, they are more intelligent than me, I'll be taking it when available

Ah come on MR. You're an intelligent fella. You know how the world works. There's more to all this than a virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 10, 2021, 01:33:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 01:20:11 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 01:16:10 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 10, 2021, 01:02:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 12:54:38 AM
That's not what I asked, you're Angelo style is boring, have you taken medication or has your family taken medication?

Medication that you or family has taken has been approved and put through the same measure of approval.

But medication you took back in the 70's is safer than medication that's being approved now?

So have you taken medication and had your family taken vaccines in the past?
Yes, my family have taken vaccines and medication.

There is something not right with the whole package of this. 

I am not scared of this Virus, I am scared of how this virus is being used.

That's my personal opinion. Each to their own.

I hope I am wrong about my distrust. I really do. I've never wanted to be more wrong in my life.

You're not wrong.

Do you know that? You get your degree lately or is this information you gathered on Facebook


My family will do what they want, they are more intelligent than me, I'll be taking it when available

I'm just going on instinct and figures. The figures don't add up and the rest add up even less. Most of my parenting, decisions on work, decisions on life are based on instinct. I'm not claiming to be more intelligent and I may be totally wrong. What do I know?

I am not going to tell you what to do. God knows you probably know a lot more on this than I do.

I do hope that if the time comes that our decision is of free will and that we are not Blackmailed into an uncomfortable situation.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 01:37:16 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 10, 2021, 01:27:54 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 01:13:41 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 10, 2021, 12:57:43 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:50:17 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 10, 2021, 12:45:40 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:01:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2021, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

Even if we all get vaccinated, will it eliminate the virus? I highly doubt it. It's unclear whether a vaccinated person can still pass on the virus.

Anyway, what will life be like post lockdowns? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Will life be better with vaccinations or not?

As smurfy alluded, I don't think this is going away, even with mass vaccination.

Hancock saying vaccinations will probably have to happen every 6/12 months, and the possibility of future lockdowns, particularly in winter. Well, reading between the lines, this virus is here to stay.

I mean, all the talk now is mass vaccination mass vaccination, we're going to get XXX number vaccinated by March/April etc. Ok fair enough, but that's obviously not going to be the answer if Hancock is suggesting more jabs in the future. Why would he say that? They obviously know that the double dose vaccine for everyone isn't going to be enough.

Stop listening/reading to whatever he says.

Do you think he's some loose cannon just shouting his mouth off? He knows what he's saying, because he's been told to say it.
Most of what he says is either his own guessing or told the guess work of some other gormless bucko.  Stick to views of someone with medical or scientific knowledge.

Ok how about Luke O'Neill saying similar. Go to 04:15

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A2elYr8GPo8
(https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A2elYr8GPo8)
More speculation. Long term mask wearing is a possibility as has been done in Asian countries for years.

Ah, so I point you to someone with scientific background and you're still not satisfied? :D

Covid certificate in your pocket, or on your arm permanently. There's your future. A barcode.

Asians tend to wear masks because of pollution.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 01:43:45 AM
See I thought that about the Asians, but they wear masks because the place has suffered with these outbreaks..

Yes , everyone do what they feel right and let others go about theirs..

I think the 100 to 40 poll shows how it may pan out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 10, 2021, 01:57:56 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 01:37:16 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 10, 2021, 01:27:54 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 01:13:41 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 10, 2021, 12:57:43 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:50:17 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 10, 2021, 12:45:40 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:01:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2021, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

Even if we all get vaccinated, will it eliminate the virus? I highly doubt it. It's unclear whether a vaccinated person can still pass on the virus.

Anyway, what will life be like post lockdowns? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Will life be better with vaccinations or not?

As smurfy alluded, I don't think this is going away, even with mass vaccination.

Hancock saying vaccinations will probably have to happen every 6/12 months, and the possibility of future lockdowns, particularly in winter. Well, reading between the lines, this virus is here to stay.

I mean, all the talk now is mass vaccination mass vaccination, we're going to get XXX number vaccinated by March/April etc. Ok fair enough, but that's obviously not going to be the answer if Hancock is suggesting more jabs in the future. Why would he say that? They obviously know that the double dose vaccine for everyone isn't going to be enough.

Stop listening/reading to whatever he says.

Do you think he's some loose cannon just shouting his mouth off? He knows what he's saying, because he's been told to say it.
Most of what he says is either his own guessing or told the guess work of some other gormless bucko.  Stick to views of someone with medical or scientific knowledge.

Ok how about Luke O'Neill saying similar. Go to 04:15

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A2elYr8GPo8
(https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A2elYr8GPo8)
More speculation. Long term mask wearing is a possibility as has been done in Asian countries for years.

Ah, so I point you to someone with scientific background and you're still not satisfied? :D

Covid certificate in your pocket, or on your arm permanently. There's your future. A barcode.

Asians tend to wear masks because of pollution.

O'Neill is hit or miss on his theories since this virus arrived and that's all it is at the moment a theory. You on the other hand want to take what Matt Hancock said as a fact.

Plenty of Asian cites don't have high pollution and they still have loads of mask wearing and long before covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mario on January 10, 2021, 09:56:07 AM
For a year the vaccine was the way out. Now I can see Hannock on the Andrew Marr (and others over last few weeks) changing the rhetoric a bit, 1. If there are no new variants 2. The roll out has to go effectively 3. The deaths have to come down 4. And the nhs is protected. Then we can open up. Another scientist on the show said there will  be lockdowns next winter.

This is getting beyond a joke, 2m are vaccinated in UK already, in another month it will prob be 3 times that or more. We should be open at the end of February or March for good. Are we just going to stay inside so no one ever gets sick again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 10, 2021, 10:09:31 AM
The narrative always changes and agree now they are saying when all over 70s in February are vaccinated we will need to go through until at least the end of March even though deaths wil drop by over 90%
Underfunded NHS for 10 years. 25% less beds than 10 years ago. Why are they not getting skated over this?
When the reduction of deaths drop that much and hospital admissions drop so much what else can be done?
Surely the younger cohort off below 50s getting it really can't be helped and is of no real concern?
If we are going to lock people of for fear of dying at a low percentage we may stop living
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 10:28:57 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 10, 2021, 10:09:31 AM
The narrative always changes and agree now they are saying when all over 70s in February are vaccinated we will need to go through until at least the end of March even though deaths wil drop by over 90%
Underfunded NHS for 10 years. 25% less beds than 10 years ago. Why are they not getting skated over this?
When the reduction of deaths drop that much and hospital admissions drop so much what else can be done?
Surely the younger cohort off below 50s getting it really can't be helped and is of no real concern?
If we are going to lock people of for fear of dying at a low percentage we may stop living

Things will naturally open up, the 'opposition' will say it's safe and we'll move on, people will ask for an exit strategy and while goal posts have been moved in the past the vaccine leaves them with no other position other than back to normality..

The only concern for me is people think that getting it under the age of 50 is grand, just because the odds are so slim, we know nothing of the after affects of Covid, how your body reacts with dealing with a respiratory virus.

I'll be taking the vaccine, I don't want the possibility of catching any virus be it flu or Covid,  my kids are adults and they'll do what they want, as will the wife.

Can't believe we are at the point of coming out of it and people are saying this is some sort of conspiracy to get us to stay in, ruin the economy, create more mental health issues, just so a Pharmaceutical company can make money!!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on January 10, 2021, 10:36:36 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 10, 2021, 10:09:31 AM
The narrative always changes and agree now they are saying when all over 70s in February are vaccinated we will need to go through until at least the end of March even though deaths wil drop by over 90%
Underfunded NHS for 10 years. 25% less beds than 10 years ago. Why are they not getting skated over this?
When the reduction of deaths drop that much and hospital admissions drop so much what else can be done?
Surely the younger cohort off below 50s getting it really can't be helped and is of no real concern?
If we are going to lock people of for fear of dying at a low percentage we may stop living

Fair points .
Though we must lockdown now as winter pressures added to by this pandemic , pressurises our chronically funded nhs.
Every raw stat produced is virtually meaningless unless put into context.
Government should already be planning on managing these pandemics going forward, because they are  likely to recur
I suspect that there were previous viral pandemics that "slipped under the radar", and it's almost guaranteed that there will be future worldwide viral pandemics.

If the NHS ( community and hospital) was properly resourced going forward then we wouldn't have to lockdown to prevent it being overwhelmed.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 10:41:45 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 10, 2021, 01:57:56 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 01:37:16 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 10, 2021, 01:27:54 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 01:13:41 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 10, 2021, 12:57:43 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:50:17 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 10, 2021, 12:45:40 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 12:01:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2021, 11:49:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 09, 2021, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 09, 2021, 07:45:28 PM
So basically when all the over 80s are vaccinated in 2 weeks when it starts to kick in it will eliminate almost 70% of deaths
And 50% hospitalised patients.
Don't see any reason why lockdowns should continue to a high extent.
Off course open up slowly. And it will give an even younger cohort to get vaccinated
Agree???

Even if we all get vaccinated, will it eliminate the virus? I highly doubt it. It's unclear whether a vaccinated person can still pass on the virus.

Anyway, what will life be like post lockdowns? It doesn't bear thinking about.

Will life be better with vaccinations or not?

As smurfy alluded, I don't think this is going away, even with mass vaccination.

Hancock saying vaccinations will probably have to happen every 6/12 months, and the possibility of future lockdowns, particularly in winter. Well, reading between the lines, this virus is here to stay.

I mean, all the talk now is mass vaccination mass vaccination, we're going to get XXX number vaccinated by March/April etc. Ok fair enough, but that's obviously not going to be the answer if Hancock is suggesting more jabs in the future. Why would he say that? They obviously know that the double dose vaccine for everyone isn't going to be enough.

Stop listening/reading to whatever he says.

Do you think he's some loose cannon just shouting his mouth off? He knows what he's saying, because he's been told to say it.
Most of what he says is either his own guessing or told the guess work of some other gormless bucko.  Stick to views of someone with medical or scientific knowledge.

Ok how about Luke O'Neill saying similar. Go to 04:15

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A2elYr8GPo8
(https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A2elYr8GPo8)
More speculation. Long term mask wearing is a possibility as has been done in Asian countries for years.

Ah, so I point you to someone with scientific background and you're still not satisfied? :D

Covid certificate in your pocket, or on your arm permanently. There's your future. A barcode.

Asians tend to wear masks because of pollution.

O'Neill is hit or miss on his theories since this virus arrived and that's all it is at the moment a theory. You on the other hand want to take what Matt Hancock said as a fact.

Plenty of Asian cites don't have high pollution and they still have loads of mask wearing and long before covid.

Did you see TLLS Friday? What did they each get after their jab? A certificate. And what is that for? Haven't you seen the Ryanair advert? Or what Qantas and other airlines are saying? No jab, you don't fly.

You don't think they will apply that to other areas of life? ONeill said it will apply to schools. I've heard it said about sports events and concerts too. Anywhere where there's people; cinemas, gyms, churches, hospitals, supermarkets, banks, building sites, offices etc. Now that might be ok to do for a few months until the virus is eliminated and life returns to normal. But it's obviously not going away, as theryre saying there will likely be lockdowns each winter, mask wearing continuing and more vaccines in the future.

This is about far more than just fighting a virus now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 10, 2021, 10:42:29 AM
All good points lads
The public can only take lockdowns for so long as we are already seeing
Into our third lockdown and little or nothing done to increase bed capacity
When the vaccines kick in if they do as we are told I would expect things to turn pretty quickly as we have an estimated 30000 nhs staff off isolating or have covid. Add them all coming back to work on top of lower levels of hospitalised patients and we should be in a much better place
But I am not liking the way our government have now changed the narrative. The vaccine was the single most way out of this now it's we will need to lockdown for much longer and keep some with us going forward
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 10:58:56 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 10, 2021, 10:42:29 AM
All good points lads
The public can only take lockdowns for so long as we are already seeing
Into our third lockdown and little or nothing done to increase bed capacity
When the vaccines kick in if they do as we are told I would expect things to turn pretty quickly as we have an estimated 30000 nhs staff off isolating or have covid. Add them all coming back to work on top of lower levels of hospitalised patients and we should be in a much better place
But I am not liking the way our government have now changed the narrative. The vaccine was the single most way out of this now it's we will need to lockdown for much longer and keep some with us going forward

When the current sick come back the NHS is still below staffing levels needed to deal with a pandemic.

Beds are not a problem, space is not a problem, it's manning these wards beds ICU's ... it takes 4 years to train a nurse, up to 6/7 years for a specialist doctor, another year for a nurse to be trained fully in ICU. So we can't just be at the level we need to tackle the next one.

The problem will be if the government go down the route of increased staffing levels then when there is no pandemic or after the winter increased sicknesses, you'll have a large workforce not doing much...

I think,  like the army, we need a reserve staff, people who are trained during the year like the TA and given roles in hospitals during the weekends and at night, building skill levels while working their normal jobs by day..

The hospitals need an overhaul in equipment better technology will save lives quicker than extra staff, the waiting times need to be reduced, surgeons need to pick a side, either they are NHS or private, and the government needs to reimburse them accordingly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 10, 2021, 11:01:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 01:20:11 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 01:16:10 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 10, 2021, 01:02:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 12:54:38 AM
That's not what I asked, you're Angelo style is boring, have you taken medication or has your family taken medication?

Medication that you or family has taken has been approved and put through the same measure of approval.

But medication you took back in the 70's is safer than medication that's being approved now?

So have you taken medication and had your family taken vaccines in the past?
Yes, my family have taken vaccines and medication.

There is something not right with the whole package of this. 

I am not scared of this Virus, I am scared of how this virus is being used.

That's my personal opinion. Each to their own.

I hope I am wrong about my distrust. I really do. I've never wanted to be more wrong in my life.

You're not wrong.

Do you know that? You get your degree lately or is this information you gathered on Facebook


My family will do what they want, they are more intelligent than me, I'll be taking it when available

And what do you know?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 10, 2021, 11:04:52 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 10:28:57 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 10, 2021, 10:09:31 AM
The narrative always changes and agree now they are saying when all over 70s in February are vaccinated we will need to go through until at least the end of March even though deaths wil drop by over 90%
Underfunded NHS for 10 years. 25% less beds than 10 years ago. Why are they not getting skated over this?
When the reduction of deaths drop that much and hospital admissions drop so much what else can be done?
Surely the younger cohort off below 50s getting it really can't be helped and is of no real concern?
If we are going to lock people of for fear of dying at a low percentage we may stop living

Things will naturally open up, the 'opposition' will say it's safe and we'll move on, people will ask for an exit strategy and while goal posts have been moved in the past the vaccine leaves them with no other position other than back to normality..

The only concern for me is people think that getting it under the age of 50 is grand, just because the odds are so slim, we know nothing of the after affects of Covid, how your body reacts with dealing with a respiratory virus.

I'll be taking the vaccine, I don't want the possibility of catching any virus be it flu or Covid,  my kids are adults and they'll do what they want, as will the wife.

Can't believe we are at the point of coming out of it and people are saying this is some sort of conspiracy to get us to stay in, ruin the economy, create more mental health issues, just so a Pharmaceutical company can make money!!

And what we know of the after effects or side effects of the vaccine that you demand people to take?

Another complete and utter contradiction from yourself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 10, 2021, 11:34:08 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 10, 2021, 11:04:52 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 10:28:57 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 10, 2021, 10:09:31 AM
The narrative always changes and agree now they are saying when all over 70s in February are vaccinated we will need to go through until at least the end of March even though deaths wil drop by over 90%
Underfunded NHS for 10 years. 25% less beds than 10 years ago. Why are they not getting skated over this?
When the reduction of deaths drop that much and hospital admissions drop so much what else can be done?
Surely the younger cohort off below 50s getting it really can't be helped and is of no real concern?
If we are going to lock people of for fear of dying at a low percentage we may stop living

Things will naturally open up, the 'opposition' will say it's safe and we'll move on, people will ask for an exit strategy and while goal posts have been moved in the past the vaccine leaves them with no other position other than back to normality..

The only concern for me is people think that getting it under the age of 50 is grand, just because the odds are so slim, we know nothing of the after affects of Covid, how your body reacts with dealing with a respiratory virus.

I'll be taking the vaccine, I don't want the possibility of catching any virus be it flu or Covid,  my kids are adults and they'll do what they want, as will the wife.

Can't believe we are at the point of coming out of it and people are saying this is some sort of conspiracy to get us to stay in, ruin the economy, create more mental health issues, just so a Pharmaceutical company can make money!!

And what we know of the after effects or side effects of the vaccine that you demand people to take?

Another complete and utter contradiction from yourself.

Checkmate!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2021, 11:52:22 AM
What have I said that I know?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 10, 2021, 12:16:10 PM
To paraphrase an ex Party leader in the 26..
It's either the WHO's way or Angelo's way.
170+ Governments have to decide.

Meanwhile back in the real World
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/hospitals-tackle-weekend-from-hell-as-covid-19-influx-looms-large-39951620.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 10, 2021, 05:34:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 10, 2021, 11:04:52 AM
And what we know of the after effects or side effects of the vaccine that you demand people to take?

If you are expected to live at least the next ten years, in your world of minimal vaccinations, that means you will contract this at some point.

So, in reality what you are asking is "are any side effects of the vaccine less than any side effects of getting full covid?"

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 10, 2021, 05:53:15 PM
Weekly update for ROI. We may have reached the peak on our weekly case number but are a few weeks off before the hospital numbers become stable.

Cases 45,770* (30,011 more than last week)
Reported Deaths 87 (30 more than last week)

*that number includes roughly 8 to 10,000 backlog cases.

In hospital: 1,452. ( 767 more than a week ago)
In ICU: 125 ( 63 more than a week ago)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 10, 2021, 06:13:24 PM
Shit last week has basically doubled the hospital numbers in the south :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 10, 2021, 07:05:15 PM
Brutal numbers Cunny
Surely close to the turn in cases?
So bad
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 10, 2021, 07:20:09 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 10, 2021, 07:05:15 PM
Brutal numbers Cunny
Surely close to the turn in cases?
So bad

We probably have, had a big backlog clearance this week so should have a weekly decrease this day week on cases. Hospital numbers will continue to rise and we'll likely have over 2000 by next Sunday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 10, 2021, 07:29:15 PM
the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on January 10, 2021, 08:10:23 PM
A number of hospitals getting her tight in the north
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 10, 2021, 08:14:42 PM
The weekly positive cases up north are down and hospital occupancy not as bad as it was earlier in the week. Still horrendous numbers though. I can't work out the numbers in inpatients. Their stats don't line up with the daily reporting. Following daily suggests 200+ more hospital cases this week but graphs don't say that.

Any which way surely numbers have to start dropping soon. Surely...

On the brief number of times I have left the house there doesn't appear to be much lockdown stuck to up north. It is definitely nothing like March last year.

Be minimum a few weeks of hospitals getting it tight I imagine :( If we are growing at 200 or so a week in hospital cases we'll be out of space soon and god knows what the ventilator scenario is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 09:10:20 PM
Something of interest:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F6A6RFDprIs
(https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F6A6RFDprIs)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: FermGael on January 10, 2021, 10:53:54 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 10, 2021, 08:10:23 PM
A number of hospitals getting her tight in the north

When will the language change from the NHS "will be overwhelmed" to the NHS "IS overwhelmed "
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on January 10, 2021, 11:36:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 09:10:20 PM
Something of interest:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F6A6RFDprIs
(https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F6A6RFDprIs)

That clip is from August. If something good was going to happen from it, suerly it would have happened by now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 10, 2021, 11:52:31 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 10, 2021, 08:10:23 PM
A number of hospitals getting her tight in the north
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0110/1188811-coronavirus-northern-ireland/

Letterkenny under severe pressure too I hear.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 11, 2021, 06:53:54 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 10, 2021, 08:14:42 PMgod knows what the ventilator scenario is.

By all accounts, if you have to go onto a full ventilator, you are 50:50 to make it.

Early intervention with positive pressure air into the lungs and the drug cocktails seems to be the way to go if possible - but of course, if there are no beds, staff and equipment free then that intervention is impossible.

So basically, expect the case mortality rate to spike too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 11, 2021, 06:54:07 AM
I would say the NHS will be under severe pressure in next week or 2 more than ever before
Some Celebrity Doctors changing their tune now on news stations
For months it was the vaccine is the only way out of this and the saviour
Now the same doctor saying he doesn't know why everyone is relying so much on the vaccine
What a fool
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 11, 2021, 07:22:04 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 11, 2021, 06:53:54 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 10, 2021, 08:14:42 PMgod knows what the ventilator scenario is.

By all accounts, if you have to go onto a full ventilator, you are 50:50 to make it.

Early intervention with positive pressure air into the lungs and the drug cocktails seems to be the way to go if possible - but of course, if there are no beds, staff and equipment free then that intervention is impossible.

So basically, expect the case mortality rate to spike too.

Yeah full ventilator and you are in big bother it would seem :(

On the letterkenny note Donegal seems to have a horrendously high rate for whatever reason.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 11, 2021, 08:31:55 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 11, 2021, 06:54:07 AM
I would say the NHS will be under severe pressure in next week or 2 more than ever before
Some Celebrity Doctors changing their tune now on news stations
For months it was the vaccine is the only way out of this and the saviour
Now the same doctor saying he doesn't know why everyone is relying so much on the vaccine
What a fool

The vaccine is the way out of the current lockdowns. However we already know it's going to take time to roll out. People behaving as if the vaccine has flicked a switch is the problem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 11, 2021, 08:56:13 AM
You wouldn't think there was a lockdown here at all. The next few weeks are going to be tough tough weeks in the hospitals and if this lockdown doesn't slow down the load it could be like that for the foreseeable future. Vaccinations aren't coming any time soon for the most of us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 11, 2021, 09:09:17 AM
People not taking personal responsibility. Cutting their interactions. I know at least 4 families who've been struck down. Adult children and elderly parents and there is no doubt they were interacting over Christmas outside of the restrictions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 09:41:58 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on January 10, 2021, 11:36:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 10, 2021, 09:10:20 PM
Something of interest:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F6A6RFDprIs
(https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F6A6RFDprIs)

That clip is from August. If something good was going to happen from it, suerly it would have happened by now.

Well, you have to ask yourself, if that drug really does work, why hasn't it been used??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 09:49:15 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 10, 2021, 05:34:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 10, 2021, 11:04:52 AM
And what we know of the after effects or side effects of the vaccine that you demand people to take?

If you are expected to live at least the next ten years, in your world of minimal vaccinations, that means you will contract this at some point.

So, in reality what you are asking is "are any side effects of the vaccine less than any side effects of getting full covid?"

100% speculative.

We don't even know if the vaccine works or what side effects it brings. But there is a dangerous dogmatic view from people like you that people should go out and get this regardless of the potential consequences.

The data on Covid shows it does not impact people of my demograph. The data on vaccines shows nothing to suggest it stops you contracting or transmitting the virus, only that it minimises the symptoms.

So what's the upside of the vaccine to people in the non-vulnerable categories?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 09:50:32 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 11, 2021, 09:09:17 AM
People not taking personal responsibility. Cutting their interactions. I know at least 4 families who've been struck down. Adult children and elderly parents and there is no doubt they were interacting over Christmas outside of the restrictions.

We've had nearly a full year of being told not to interact with others.

Do you think that's a sustainable strategy?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 09:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 10, 2021, 07:29:15 PM
the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease :(

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 09:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 10, 2021, 07:29:15 PM
the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease :(

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 10:26:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 09:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 10, 2021, 07:29:15 PM
the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease :(

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 10:53:33 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 11, 2021, 09:09:17 AM
People not taking personal responsibility. Cutting their interactions. I know at least 4 families who've been struck down. Adult children and elderly parents and there is no doubt they were interacting over Christmas outside of the restrictions.

Unfair comment.

Sure if that's the case, if you get Covid. It's your own fault for not locking yourself in the attic. You don't deserve any help for breaking the rules?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:00:44 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55616631

74,000 in the North vaccinated (first doses, 9k have both doses).

Serious work. Let's hope that start to reflect in numbers going forward over the next 4 to 6 weeks.

Oh, seen the Queen got vaccinated over the weekend too. Good for her, was really worried for awhile.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:06:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 10:26:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 09:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 10, 2021, 07:29:15 PM
the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease :(

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:09:50 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:00:44 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55616631

74,000 in the North vaccinated (first doses, 9k have both doses).

Serious work. Let's hope that start to reflect in numbers going forward over the next 4 to 6 weeks.

Oh, seen the Queen got vaccinated over the weekend too. Good for her, was really worried for awhile.

We'll have a good idea where we stand at the end of February and whether the vaccination drive has had a positive impact on hospitalisations and deaths - though its worth taking noting how these figures are manipulated to overstate the impact of Covid. I'd like to know how much of the virus is spread in hospitals rather than actual admitted cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:12:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:06:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 10:26:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 09:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 10, 2021, 07:29:15 PM
the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease :(

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

I'd like to agree with that statement, somehow I don't think it will be quite so straight forward or quick coming.

That said, in the North (as of yesterday),88k total had tested positive so to be at the stage already where we are going to outstrip positive total tests throughout the pandemic, that is a fantastic achievement really.

I also seen we've performed 1.2 million tests total. Christ that seems a bit high doesn't it? Maybe more reassuring if you think of it as a percentage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 11, 2021, 11:18:51 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 10:53:33 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 11, 2021, 09:09:17 AM
People not taking personal responsibility. Cutting their interactions. I know at least 4 families who've been struck down. Adult children and elderly parents and there is no doubt they were interacting over Christmas outside of the restrictions.

Unfair comment.

Sure if that's the case, if you get Covid. It's your own fault for not locking yourself in the attic. You don't deserve any help for breaking the rules?

I am not suggesting that people shouldn't get treatment. What I am saying is that there has been a significant flouting of the rules. Now we can argue to the cows come on home on why that is the case. People need to take responsibility. They need to cut their interactions and stay at home only for essential purposes.
If the number don't fall significantly and pressures on the health service don't ease then tighter restrictions are inevitable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:23:47 AM
They can't really get any tighter. Everything is closed. Bar the multinationals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 11:24:49 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:06:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 10:26:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 09:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 10, 2021, 07:29:15 PM
the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease :(

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

You see we don't know, as you have very well said so many times, we don't know, So your strategy should be keep to your own demograph until we know, as this has been rushed out and not proven, most vaccines in the past have taken up to ten year to be shown to be ok, even then there has been complications. So best you wait till you're either sick and fall into the underlying conditions or 70 plus...

Use a lanyard also, just to let others know the demograph you fall into
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:12:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:06:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 10:26:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 09:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 10, 2021, 07:29:15 PM
the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease :(

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

I'd like to agree with that statement, somehow I don't think it will be quite so straight forward or quick coming.

That said, in the North (as of yesterday),88k total had tested positive so to be at the stage already where we are going to outstrip positive total tests throughout the pandemic, that is a fantastic achievement really.

I also seen we've performed 1.2 million tests total. Christ that seems a bit high doesn't it? Maybe more reassuring if you think of it as a percentage.

All ifs, buts and maybes.

The stats have shown us that the virus is not serious to the vast amount of the population. We know from the figures released for the Mar-Aug deaths here that the Covid avg age of death is higher than the avg life expectancy, somewhere in the mid 90% of Covid deaths were over the age of 65, over 80s accounted for 66% of deaths. So providing the vaccine is effective and providing we have vulnerable groupings and healthcare workers vaccinated and this is proven to protect them - then we should be able to get on with things.

If the vaccine does not prevent contraction and transmission of the virus then what is the upside of the people in non-vulnerable groupings getting it? It's likely fairly minimal at best.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:38:27 AM
The Irish Times have run a bizarre pro-Varadkar propaganda piece this morning based on emails from eejits in the public who wrote in to praise Varadkar's disastrous appearance on the Claire Byrne Live programme last October

This was the one where Varadkar rubbished NPHET and Tony Holohan over their advice to move to Level 5 - it was the most disastrous interview by an Irish politician since Brian Lenihan's "mature recollection"

The IT article this morning reads like something from Murdoch media - it's like a written version of Fox News

FG towers are clearly desperate, they know that when deaths start hitting 100 a day very soon, the public are going to recoil and look for somebody to blame

And the public will look for those in power who were flippant about the situation, or rejected public health advice - Varadkar did both

Hence the desperate effort to portray him as "a man of the people"

"He was only doing what the people wanted, guv"

But he wasn't - he was making a play for the sort of eejits who if they were in America would be Trumpists - and he was playing with people's lives to do so


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:45:44 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 11:24:49 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:06:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 10:26:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 09:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 10, 2021, 07:29:15 PM
the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease :(

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

You see we don't know, as you have very well said so many times, we don't know, So your strategy should be keep to your own demograph until we know, as this has been rushed out and not proven, most vaccines in the past have taken up to ten year to be shown to be ok, even then there has been complications. So best you wait till you're either sick and fall into the underlying conditions or 70 plus...

Use a lanyard also, just to let others know the demograph you fall into

Didn't say that was my strategy at all. You seem to have created that statement and attributed it to me without any foundation.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:51:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:12:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:06:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 10:26:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 09:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 10, 2021, 07:29:15 PM
the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease :(

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

I'd like to agree with that statement, somehow I don't think it will be quite so straight forward or quick coming.

That said, in the North (as of yesterday),88k total had tested positive so to be at the stage already where we are going to outstrip positive total tests throughout the pandemic, that is a fantastic achievement really.

I also seen we've performed 1.2 million tests total. Christ that seems a bit high doesn't it? Maybe more reassuring if you think of it as a percentage.

All ifs, buts and maybes.

The stats have shown us that the virus is not serious to the vast amount of the population. We know from the figures released for the Mar-Aug deaths here that the Covid avg age of death is higher than the avg life expectancy, somewhere in the mid 90% of Covid deaths were over the age of 65, over 80s accounted for 66% of deaths. So providing the vaccine is effective and providing we have vulnerable groupings and healthcare workers vaccinated and this is proven to protect them - then we should be able to get on with things.

If the vaccine does not prevent contraction and transmission of the virus then what is the upside of the people in non-vulnerable groupings getting it? It's likely fairly minimal at best.

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:56:45 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:51:23 AM

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.
Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 11:57:30 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:45:44 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 11:24:49 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:06:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 10:26:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 09:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 10, 2021, 07:29:15 PM
the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease :(

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

You see we don't know, as you have very well said so many times, we don't know, So your strategy should be keep to your own demograph until we know, as this has been rushed out and not proven, most vaccines in the past have taken up to ten year to be shown to be ok, even then there has been complications. So best you wait till you're either sick and fall into the underlying conditions or 70 plus...

Use a lanyard also, just to let others know the demograph you fall into

Didn't say that was my strategy at all. You seem to have created that statement and attributed it to me without any foundation.

It clearly is, if you are not going to take the the vaccine and by your own words the vaccine might not cover catching the virus, then one would assume you will stay away from the vulnerable, stay within your own demograph and carry on regardless, thankfully you'll not be putting yourself or family in a position that they will catch it, as you'll be following the guidelines. Which is good
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on January 11, 2021, 12:03:22 PM
https://twitter.com/GabrielScally/status/1348343393605312513

I'm not saying this is correct and there was one reply to the OP that challenged some of the findings.  However, it really does highlight how little is known about the long term impact of this disease on individual / public health. 

So many people think they know the truth of this disease and are trying to speak authoritatively on so many aspects of it.  We have plenty of them on this discussion board and people are guilty of it on multiple sides of the debate.

People need to accept that one of the most dangerous aspects of this disease is the unknown. Will the vaccines work against emerging strains? Don't know. What are the long term implications of Covid on individual health? Don't know. Why do some people get long covid? Don't know.  When will we be back to normal? - Don't know? 

At this stage, I have had my fill of nonsense from uninformed Covid deniers in particular who think that their understanding is better than anyone else. When someone posts on Twitter, that their 21 year old son has been admitted to hospital with Covid, people seem compelled to chastise this concerned parent that Covid is no different than the flu. We are now at risk of an Italian style outbreak and yet we still see this nonsense being peddled. 

Notwithstanding the social implications of lockdowns etc, the only people that have a right to speak authoritatively on the disease itself are experts who have years of training in relevant areas. The experts are having to prevaricate because there is so much that is unknown - at least they do that.  Lots of people who have no real understanding of medicine or epidemiology seem to be able to speak with more conviction and apparent knowledge than the experts - that's because they are good at talking and don't mind giving opinions about things that they really know nothing about.

The rest of us have a right to our opinions, but in my mind, people have no business lecturing and hectoring others on something so complex that they really do not understand.  Question/ challenge certainly, but social media is now full of dangerous individuals pedaling alternative truths and they do not deserve people's attention. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on January 11, 2021, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:38:27 AM
The Irish Times have run a bizarre pro-Varadkar propaganda piece this morning based on emails from eejits in the public who wrote in to praise Varadkar's disastrous appearance on the Claire Byrne Live programme last October

This was the one where Varadkar rubbished NPHET and Tony Holohan over their advice to move to Level 5 - it was the most disastrous interview by an Irish politician since Brian Lenihan's "mature recollection"

The IT article this morning reads like something from Murdoch media - it's like a written version of Fox News

FG towers are clearly desperate, they know that when deaths start hitting 100 a day very soon, the public are going to recoil and look for somebody to blame

And the public will look for those in power who were flippant about the situation, or rejected public health advice - Varadkar did both

Hence the desperate effort to portray him as "a man of the people"

"He was only doing what the people wanted, guv"

But he wasn't - he was making a play for the sort of eejits who if they were in America would be Trumpists - and he was playing with people's lives to do so
A load of hyperbolic nonsense in there Sid.

Varadkar wasn't annoyed with the message, it was more that it was released to the press before it was provided to Cabinet. The objective to put pressure on Cabinet.
Turns out it was right to go to Level 5, but we went to Level 5 anyway within a very short time and up to Christmas we were 'performing' best in Europe, behind only Iceland.

The real problem is the opening up for Christmas combined with new variants. There is definitely a strong argument that we should have remained in lockdown for Christmas, but with spirits up due to vaccine announcements, there was clear public preference to ease restrictions and no political party called for a Christmas lockdown.

So overall it's clear that in terms of timing of going into and coming out of lockdown, our politicians have been about the best in Europe (acknowledging that most of those decisions had support from opposition parties), but still probably only 6.5/10 or thereabouts if I was giving a mark. But there's absolutely nothing to suggest any other party would have handled it with any substantive difference.

Rollout of the vaccine is now key. We seem to be doing no better than mediocre at the moment in that regard albeit there are of course supply constraints to deal with.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 12:04:31 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:51:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:12:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:06:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 10:26:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 09:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 10, 2021, 07:29:15 PM
the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease :(

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

I'd like to agree with that statement, somehow I don't think it will be quite so straight forward or quick coming.

That said, in the North (as of yesterday),88k total had tested positive so to be at the stage already where we are going to outstrip positive total tests throughout the pandemic, that is a fantastic achievement really.

I also seen we've performed 1.2 million tests total. Christ that seems a bit high doesn't it? Maybe more reassuring if you think of it as a percentage.

All ifs, buts and maybes.

The stats have shown us that the virus is not serious to the vast amount of the population. We know from the figures released for the Mar-Aug deaths here that the Covid avg age of death is higher than the avg life expectancy, somewhere in the mid 90% of Covid deaths were over the age of 65, over 80s accounted for 66% of deaths. So providing the vaccine is effective and providing we have vulnerable groupings and healthcare workers vaccinated and this is proven to protect them - then we should be able to get on with things.

If the vaccine does not prevent contraction and transmission of the virus then what is the upside of the people in non-vulnerable groupings getting it? It's likely fairly minimal at best.

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.

There are multiple reasons on death certs, I haven't seen a Covid death cert personally and hopefully never will, but I've seen one that had two reasons for the death.. Some deaths are more complicated, cancers can be terminal and there may be a life span of ten years with it, but you could catch covid which has a reaction to the immune system and results in an earlier death than expected.

That person may have had a terminal illness and a contributing factor, but the catching of the covid sped up this persons death.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:07:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 12:04:31 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:51:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:12:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:06:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 10:26:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 09:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 10, 2021, 07:29:15 PM
the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease :(

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

I'd like to agree with that statement, somehow I don't think it will be quite so straight forward or quick coming.

That said, in the North (as of yesterday),88k total had tested positive so to be at the stage already where we are going to outstrip positive total tests throughout the pandemic, that is a fantastic achievement really.

I also seen we've performed 1.2 million tests total. Christ that seems a bit high doesn't it? Maybe more reassuring if you think of it as a percentage.

All ifs, buts and maybes.

The stats have shown us that the virus is not serious to the vast amount of the population. We know from the figures released for the Mar-Aug deaths here that the Covid avg age of death is higher than the avg life expectancy, somewhere in the mid 90% of Covid deaths were over the age of 65, over 80s accounted for 66% of deaths. So providing the vaccine is effective and providing we have vulnerable groupings and healthcare workers vaccinated and this is proven to protect them - then we should be able to get on with things.

If the vaccine does not prevent contraction and transmission of the virus then what is the upside of the people in non-vulnerable groupings getting it? It's likely fairly minimal at best.

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.

There are multiple reasons on death certs, I haven't seen a Covid death cert personally and hopefully never will, but I've seen one that had two reasons for the death.. Some deaths are more complicated, cancers can be terminal and there may be a life span of ten years with it, but you could catch covid which has a reaction to the immune system and results in an earlier death than expected.

That person may have had a terminal illness and a contributing factor, but the catching of the covid sped up this persons death.

The way I understand it is, if you had Covid when you died, you are then classified as a Covid death - regardless of whether it was the cause of death.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 12:09:24 PM
Again, there could be other factors. I haven't seen a death Cert on Covid, so I won't say it has or hasn't.

I'm giving you an example of what I've seen, a death cert with multiple causes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 12:15:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:56:45 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:51:23 AM

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.
Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 12:15:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:12:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:06:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 10:26:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 09:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 10, 2021, 07:29:15 PM
the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease :(

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

I'd like to agree with that statement, somehow I don't think it will be quite so straight forward or quick coming.

That said, in the North (as of yesterday),88k total had tested positive so to be at the stage already where we are going to outstrip positive total tests throughout the pandemic, that is a fantastic achievement really.

I also seen we've performed 1.2 million tests total. Christ that seems a bit high doesn't it? Maybe more reassuring if you think of it as a percentage.

All ifs, buts and maybes.

The stats have shown us that the virus is not serious to the vast amount of the population. We know from the figures released for the Mar-Aug deaths here that the Covid avg age of death is higher than the avg life expectancy, somewhere in the mid 90% of Covid deaths were over the age of 65, over 80s accounted for 66% of deaths. So providing the vaccine is effective and providing we have vulnerable groupings and healthcare workers vaccinated and this is proven to protect them - then we should be able to get on with things.

If the vaccine does not prevent contraction and transmission of the virus then what is the upside of the people in non-vulnerable groupings getting it? It's likely fairly minimal at best.

Yes, good point.

But non-vulnerables will get the vaccine. And theres a simple reason why - covid passport.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:17:21 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 11, 2021, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:38:27 AM
The Irish Times have run a bizarre pro-Varadkar propaganda piece this morning based on emails from eejits in the public who wrote in to praise Varadkar's disastrous appearance on the Claire Byrne Live programme last October

This was the one where Varadkar rubbished NPHET and Tony Holohan over their advice to move to Level 5 - it was the most disastrous interview by an Irish politician since Brian Lenihan's "mature recollection"

The IT article this morning reads like something from Murdoch media - it's like a written version of Fox News

FG towers are clearly desperate, they know that when deaths start hitting 100 a day very soon, the public are going to recoil and look for somebody to blame

And the public will look for those in power who were flippant about the situation, or rejected public health advice - Varadkar did both

Hence the desperate effort to portray him as "a man of the people"

"He was only doing what the people wanted, guv"

But he wasn't - he was making a play for the sort of eejits who if they were in America would be Trumpists - and he was playing with people's lives to do so
A load of hyperbolic nonsense in there Sid.

Varadkar wasn't annoyed with the message, it was more that it was released to the press before it was provided to Cabinet. The objective to put pressure on Cabinet.
Turns out it was right to go to Level 5, but we went to Level 5 anyway within a very short time and up to Christmas we were 'performing' best in Europe, behind only Iceland.

The real problem is the opening up for Christmas combined with new variants. There is definitely a strong argument that we should have remained in lockdown for Christmas, but with spirits up due to vaccine announcements, there was clear public preference to ease restrictions and no political party called for a Christmas lockdown.

So overall it's clear that in terms of timing of going into and coming out of lockdown, our politicians have been about the best in Europe (acknowledging that most of those decisions had support from opposition parties), but still probably only 6.5/10 or thereabouts if I was giving a mark. But there's absolutely nothing to suggest any other party would have handled it with any substantive difference.

Rollout of the vaccine is now key. We seem to be doing no better than mediocre at the moment in that regard albeit there are of course supply constraints to deal with.
How is it hyperbolic?

You say "Varadkar wasn't annoyed with the message" - that is simply wrong

He portrayed NPHET and Holohan as not living in the real world, when they very much were

He portrayed them as living in an ivory tower - but it was Vardakar who was living in an ivory tower

NPHET's advice was leaked to the press - by who?

It wasn't NPHET, as the Government desperately tried to frame it

The most logical person to have leaked it is Varadkar himself

Varadkar undermined trust in public health advice enormously with that appearance - it was disgraceful - he was flippant, he was playing to the right-wing populist idiot crowd, and it backfired on him within a day, and time has proven the full folly of that appearance

Government then made the same mistake but much worse in December

Government's job is to govern in the best interests of the people - not to govern according to opinion poll, or worse, social media comments - and that's all Varadkar seems capable of doing

The IT article this morning is laughable in its propaganda nature, like jaysus christ, how the f**k are emails by idiots back in October praising an idiotic interview now framed into something "positive" in January







Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 12:15:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:56:45 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:51:23 AM

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.
Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.
What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 12:19:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 12:04:31 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:51:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:12:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:06:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 10:26:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 09:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 10, 2021, 07:29:15 PM
the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease :(

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

I'd like to agree with that statement, somehow I don't think it will be quite so straight forward or quick coming.

That said, in the North (as of yesterday),88k total had tested positive so to be at the stage already where we are going to outstrip positive total tests throughout the pandemic, that is a fantastic achievement really.

I also seen we've performed 1.2 million tests total. Christ that seems a bit high doesn't it? Maybe more reassuring if you think of it as a percentage.

All ifs, buts and maybes.

The stats have shown us that the virus is not serious to the vast amount of the population. We know from the figures released for the Mar-Aug deaths here that the Covid avg age of death is higher than the avg life expectancy, somewhere in the mid 90% of Covid deaths were over the age of 65, over 80s accounted for 66% of deaths. So providing the vaccine is effective and providing we have vulnerable groupings and healthcare workers vaccinated and this is proven to protect them - then we should be able to get on with things.

If the vaccine does not prevent contraction and transmission of the virus then what is the upside of the people in non-vulnerable groupings getting it? It's likely fairly minimal at best.

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.

There are multiple reasons on death certs, I haven't seen a Covid death cert personally and hopefully never will, but I've seen one that had two reasons for the death.. Some deaths are more complicated, cancers can be terminal and there may be a life span of ten years with it, but you could catch covid which has a reaction to the immune system and results in an earlier death than expected.

That person may have had a terminal illness and a contributing factor, but the catching of the covid sped up this persons death.

You can have any number of reasons on the cert as you've pointed out.

But any mention of Covid immediately goes towards the statistics that we see daily.

If someone has the vaccine however and it's all up to date etc.....then we can't, for sake of accuracy call it a Covid death anymore, surely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 11, 2021, 12:19:54 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:23:47 AM
They can't really get any tighter. Everything is closed. Bar the multinationals.

Wanna bet? I could see the following happen in the UK
- All takeaway closed
- Curfew 8pm - 6am
- Construction closed
- Enforced stay at home restrictions with only one household member permitted to leave home once a week

The numbers are off the scale and people aren't understanding it. Examples on this thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:24:56 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 12:19:21 PM

You can have any number of reasons on the cert as you've pointed out.

But any mention of Covid immediately goes towards the statistics that we see daily.


The reality is that UK Covid deaths are being under counted, any death after 28 deaths since a positive test is not counted as a Covid death
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 12:25:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 12:15:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:56:45 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:51:23 AM

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.
Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.
What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?

Sorry what is your point here?

What killed Freddie Mercury is kinda irrelevant, the only similarity is that AIDS continues to be a pandemic not many seem to be bothered about. His cause of death is not something I know the ins and outs of.

What is the problem with asking for clarification if someone has had their Covid vaccination, can Covid still be marked on a death certificate?

It's simple housekeeping going forward.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 12:28:22 PM
Even if someone has covid, recovers, and gets run over by a bus a couple of week's later, they're put down as a covid death.

I'd say with all the normal deaths in winter (with flu, chest infections, etc), those put down as covid deaths, when they weren't, are bound to be higher.

It just doesn't add up. In more ways than one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 11, 2021, 12:28:48 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 11, 2021, 12:19:54 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:23:47 AM
They can't really get any tighter. Everything is closed. Bar the multinationals.

Wanna bet? I could see the following happen in the UK
- All takeaway closed
- Curfew 8pm - 6am
- Construction closed
- Enforced stay at home restrictions with only one household member permitted to leave home once a week

The numbers are off the scale and people aren't understanding it. Examples on this thread.

Exactly - I don't think people are fully comprehending how stuffed the health services are going to be over the next few weeks.

I put the car in to get fixed in Belfast. The roads and pavements were mobbed.

Lockdown can get a lot worse as trailer says and in reality at current rate of growth it is going to happen.

Takeaways closed, B&Ms closed..., off licenses, nurseries, police can check where people are going and why. There are many many ways they can get a lot worse and I would be surprised if that doesn't happen.

What was it a doctor in Cork described it as .... "we are at the gates of hell" I think was his quote.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 11, 2021, 12:31:08 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 12:25:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 12:15:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:56:45 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:51:23 AM

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.
Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.
What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?

Sorry what is your point here?

What killed Freddie Mercury is kinda irrelevant, the only similarity is that AIDS continues to be a pandemic not many seem to be bothered about. His cause of death is not something I know the ins and outs of.

What is the problem with asking for clarification if someone has had their Covid vaccination, can Covid still be marked on a death certificate?

It's simple housekeeping going forward.

What possible benefit would it have to not record this? I've seen some random comments on this thread, but this is up there. For a start it helps evaluate how effective the vaccine is. If we see high %'s of people with the vaccine still die with Covid then it can be monitored. There is absolutely no benefit in not reporting Covid if it was Covid. Unless you want to purposely skew the figures downwards for whatever reasons.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: APM on January 11, 2021, 12:03:22 PM
https://twitter.com/GabrielScally/status/1348343393605312513

I'm not saying this is correct and there was one reply to the OP that challenged some of the findings.  However, it really does highlight how little is known about the long term impact of this disease on individual / public health. 

So many people think they know the truth of this disease and are trying to speak authoritatively on so many aspects of it.  We have plenty of them on this discussion board and people are guilty of it on multiple sides of the debate.

People need to accept that one of the most dangerous aspects of this disease is the unknown. Will the vaccines work against emerging strains? Don't know. What are the long term implications of Covid on individual health? Don't know. Why do some people get long covid? Don't know.  When will we be back to normal? - Don't know? 

At this stage, I have had my fill of nonsense from uninformed Covid deniers in particular who think that their understanding is better than anyone else. When someone posts on Twitter, that their 21 year old son has been admitted to hospital with Covid, people seem compelled to chastise this concerned parent that Covid is no different than the flu. We are now at risk of an Italian style outbreak and yet we still see this nonsense being peddled. 

Notwithstanding the social implications of lockdowns etc, the only people that have a right to speak authoritatively on the disease itself are experts who have years of training in relevant areas. The experts are having to prevaricate because there is so much that is unknown - at least they do that.  Lots of people who have no real understanding of medicine or epidemiology seem to be able to speak with more conviction and apparent knowledge than the experts - that's because they are good at talking and don't mind giving opinions about things that they really know nothing about.

The rest of us have a right to our opinions, but in my mind, people have no business lecturing and hectoring others on something so complex that they really do not understand.  Question/ challenge certainly, but social media is now full of dangerous individuals pedaling alternative truths and they do not deserve people's attention.

What about the long term impact of the vaccine on the person who take it.

What you'll find is experts have conflicting views on this and how it has been handled. Anyone who doesn't agree with the mainstream thinking is coined a crank or conspiracy theorist because they have an opposing view, irrespective of their expertise.

Expertise is the most flimsy line of argument out there when the scientific and medical community have very different views on this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:33:02 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 12:15:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:12:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:06:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 10:26:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 09:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 10, 2021, 07:29:15 PM
the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease :(

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

I'd like to agree with that statement, somehow I don't think it will be quite so straight forward or quick coming.

That said, in the North (as of yesterday),88k total had tested positive so to be at the stage already where we are going to outstrip positive total tests throughout the pandemic, that is a fantastic achievement really.

I also seen we've performed 1.2 million tests total. Christ that seems a bit high doesn't it? Maybe more reassuring if you think of it as a percentage.

All ifs, buts and maybes.

The stats have shown us that the virus is not serious to the vast amount of the population. We know from the figures released for the Mar-Aug deaths here that the Covid avg age of death is higher than the avg life expectancy, somewhere in the mid 90% of Covid deaths were over the age of 65, over 80s accounted for 66% of deaths. So providing the vaccine is effective and providing we have vulnerable groupings and healthcare workers vaccinated and this is proven to protect them - then we should be able to get on with things.

If the vaccine does not prevent contraction and transmission of the virus then what is the upside of the people in non-vulnerable groupings getting it? It's likely fairly minimal at best.

Yes, good point.

But non-vulnerables will get the vaccine. And theres a simple reason why - covid passport.

Yet there is probably no real upside.

I'm in no rush to travel abroad when this finishes. I'd be very wary of this vaccine at present and I wouldn't risk my health for the sake of a holiday until we know more about it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:34:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 12:28:22 PM
Even if someone has covid, recovers, and gets run over by a bus a couple of week's later, they're put down as a covid death.

I'd say with all the normal deaths in winter (with flu, chest infections, etc), those put down as covid deaths, when they weren't, are bound to be higher.

It just doesn't add up. In more ways than one.

Precisely, deaths are completely overstated and when it's put to those who record those figures they have acknowledged that deaths are overstated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 12:35:48 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 11, 2021, 12:28:48 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 11, 2021, 12:19:54 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:23:47 AM
They can't really get any tighter. Everything is closed. Bar the multinationals.

Wanna bet? I could see the following happen in the UK
- All takeaway closed
- Curfew 8pm - 6am
- Construction closed
- Enforced stay at home restrictions with only one household member permitted to leave home once a week

The numbers are off the scale and people aren't understanding it. Examples on this thread.

Exactly - I don't think people are fully comprehending how stuffed the health services are going to be over the next few weeks.

I put the car in to get fixed in Belfast. The roads and pavements were mobbed.

Lockdown can get a lot worse as trailer says and in reality at current rate of growth it is going to happen.

Takeaways closed, B&Ms closed..., off licenses, nurseries, police can check where people are going and why. There are many many ways they can get a lot worse and I would be surprised if that doesn't happen.

What was it a doctor in Cork described it as .... "we are at the gates of hell" I think was his quote.

I mean stopping construction industry, fair enough. Up to the Govt and if they want to pay all for that. The ramifications I'm sure someone in that industry would be able to let you know better than me.

Takeaways, curfews etc? Waste of time and will only turn people against restrictions as is. Remember the Govt need the publics support. At the minute they are blaming them while refusing to acknowledge their own failures (track and trace, years and years of NHS cuts). How long do you think this goes on before people completely stop caring? Not my own beliefs, but you have to acknowledge the majority of people I would say now, just don't care anymore. 

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:35:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 12:15:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:56:45 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:51:23 AM

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.
Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.
What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?

Comparing apples and organges there.

No cure exists for AIDs as far as I know, it's something you live with for the rest of your life.

Covid is something which effectively lasts for 2 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:37:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 11, 2021, 12:19:54 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:23:47 AM
They can't really get any tighter. Everything is closed. Bar the multinationals.

Wanna bet? I could see the following happen in the UK
- All takeaway closed
- Curfew 8pm - 6am
- Construction closed
- Enforced stay at home restrictions with only one household member permitted to leave home once a week

The numbers are off the scale and people aren't understanding it. Examples on this thread.

And of course there are absolutely no ramifications on the restrictions you propose, nevermind the current ones in action?

Have we had any cases attributed to takeaways yet?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smort on January 11, 2021, 12:38:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:34:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 12:28:22 PM
Even if someone has covid, recovers, and gets run over by a bus a couple of week's later, they're put down as a covid death.

I'd say with all the normal deaths in winter (with flu, chest infections, etc), those put down as covid deaths, when they weren't, are bound to be higher.

It just doesn't add up. In more ways than one.

Precisely, deaths are completely overstated and when it's put to those who record those figures they have acknowledged that deaths are overstated.

Fair enough points, but the NHS situation is not being overstated. I even see this morning they are starting to ration oxygen supplies in a hospital in Southend
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:39:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 12:28:22 PM
Even if someone has covid, recovers, and gets run over by a bus a couple of week's later, they're put down as a covid death.
Have you a reputable link for this?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:41:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:35:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 12:15:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:56:45 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:51:23 AM

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.
Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.
What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?

Comparing apples and organges there.

No cure exists for AIDs as far as I know, it's something you live with for the rest of your life.

Covid is something which effectively lasts for 2 weeks.
Not at all

It's a very fair comparison to this ludicrous "died from Covid" v "died with Covid" nonsense

Did Mercury die from AIDS or pneumonia?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 11, 2021, 12:42:03 PM
QuoteCovid lasts 2 weeks.

Not for everyone it doesn't.

I think they have changed how they report deaths in scenarios like an accident or something else like that. I have read that before. I don't think this is as bad as some people are making it out to be.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:42:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:34:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 12:28:22 PM
Even if someone has covid, recovers, and gets run over by a bus a couple of week's later, they're put down as a covid death.

I'd say with all the normal deaths in winter (with flu, chest infections, etc), those put down as covid deaths, when they weren't, are bound to be higher.

It just doesn't add up. In more ways than one.

Precisely, deaths are completely overstated and when it's put to those who record those figures they have acknowledged that deaths are overstated.
How could be they be completely overstated when anything after 28 days is not counted as Covid death?

Yet people continue to die after the 28 day cut off

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 12:42:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:33:02 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 12:15:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:12:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:06:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 10:26:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 09:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 10, 2021, 07:29:15 PM
the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease :(

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

I'd like to agree with that statement, somehow I don't think it will be quite so straight forward or quick coming.

That said, in the North (as of yesterday),88k total had tested positive so to be at the stage already where we are going to outstrip positive total tests throughout the pandemic, that is a fantastic achievement really.

I also seen we've performed 1.2 million tests total. Christ that seems a bit high doesn't it? Maybe more reassuring if you think of it as a percentage.

All ifs, buts and maybes.

The stats have shown us that the virus is not serious to the vast amount of the population. We know from the figures released for the Mar-Aug deaths here that the Covid avg age of death is higher than the avg life expectancy, somewhere in the mid 90% of Covid deaths were over the age of 65, over 80s accounted for 66% of deaths. So providing the vaccine is effective and providing we have vulnerable groupings and healthcare workers vaccinated and this is proven to protect them - then we should be able to get on with things.

If the vaccine does not prevent contraction and transmission of the virus then what is the upside of the people in non-vulnerable groupings getting it? It's likely fairly minimal at best.

Yes, good point.

But non-vulnerables will get the vaccine. And theres a simple reason why - covid passport.

Yet there is probably no real upside.

I'm in no rush to travel abroad when this finishes. I'd be very wary of this vaccine at present and I wouldn't risk my health for the sake of a holiday until we know more about it.

I don't usually go abroad on holiday anyway so I don't care about that.

But if that was the only restriction imposed from not having the vaccine, I could live with that. But it won't be. They'll ensure that you need a vaccine to enter schools, workplaces, concerts, hospitals, doctor surgeries, sports events etc.

I honestly think this isn't about the virus anymore. There is much more going on here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 11, 2021, 12:43:42 PM
Such as?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 11, 2021, 12:44:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:37:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 11, 2021, 12:19:54 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:23:47 AM
They can't really get any tighter. Everything is closed. Bar the multinationals.

Wanna bet? I could see the following happen in the UK
- All takeaway closed
- Curfew 8pm - 6am
- Construction closed
- Enforced stay at home restrictions with only one household member permitted to leave home once a week

The numbers are off the scale and people aren't understanding it. Examples on this thread.

And of course there are absolutely no ramifications on the restrictions you propose, nevermind the current ones in action?

Have we had any cases attributed to takeaways yet?

There'll be loads of ramifications. Only a nutter would say there wouldn't be. But believe me if the health service becomes overwhelmed all those financial and mental problems will pale into insignificance. It's not exactly about cases around takeaways it's about getting through to people that they need to stay at home. It's like closing golf courses. It probably has a 0.00000001 effect on the R number but they need to get people to stay at home.
Personally, I think the NHS in NI won't cope and we're headed for an Italian style meltdown. Like I said earlier, we can argue about why that is later. For now I would encourage you to cut your interactions to the absolute bare minimum. These next two weeks will be crucial but if the number keep presenting to hospital and Nurses and other health staff are sick or isolating then it doesn't take a genius to see what will happen.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 11, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 11, 2021, 12:44:10 PM
Personally, I think the NHS in NI won't cope and we're headed for an Italian style meltdown.

I think that could very well happen before the end of January at current rate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:46:22 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 11, 2021, 12:42:03 PM
QuoteCovid lasts 2 weeks.

Not for everyone it doesn't.

I think they have changed how they report deaths in scenarios like an accident or something else like that. I have read that before. I don't think this is as bad as some people are making it out to be.
Right back at the start of this, Marc Lipsitch of Harvard said that deaths on a particular death are a reflection of the case figures from 20/21 days previous - around three weeks basically

So if we have, say 6k cases on January 5th, we don't see the real knock on effects of that figure in terms of deaths until around January 25th/26th - although for many individuals, death will occur in either a considerably shorter or longer time frame
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 12:46:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:39:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 12:28:22 PM
Even if someone has covid, recovers, and gets run over by a bus a couple of week's later, they're put down as a covid death.
Have you a reputable link for this?

I've heard that from numerous sources. RTÉ, and BBC. It was even confirmed on Nolan show as correct.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 11, 2021, 12:48:40 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 12:46:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:39:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 12:28:22 PM
Even if someone has covid, recovers, and gets run over by a bus a couple of week’s later, they’re put down as a covid death.
Have you a reputable link for this?

I’ve heard that from numerous sources. RTÉ, and BBC. It was even confirmed on Nolan show as correct.

Is the wording not 'died during covid-19 pandemic' or something to that effect?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:48:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 11, 2021, 12:42:03 PM
QuoteCovid lasts 2 weeks.

Not for everyone it doesn't.

I think they have changed how they report deaths in scenarios like an accident or something else like that. I have read that before. I don't think this is as bad as some people are making it out to be.
Public Health England were reporting Covid deaths in a different way compared to the rest of the UK, and the ONS

During the summer, the UK death figure was reduced from 46k to 41k

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53722711
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:41:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:35:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 12:15:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:56:45 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:51:23 AM

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.
Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.
What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?

Comparing apples and organges there.

No cure exists for AIDs as far as I know, it's something you live with for the rest of your life.

Covid is something which effectively lasts for 2 weeks.
Not at all

It's a very fair comparison to this ludicrous "died from Covid" v "died with Covid" nonsense

Did Mercury die from AIDS or pneumonia?

I couldn't tell you what Mercury died from. I'm neither or a doctor or pathologist.

I do that Covid deaths are recorded in an arbitrary manner and if someone has Covid when they die, they are added to the statistics regardless or whether they were admitted for that reason or showed any sign or symptom of Covid at the time of their death.

We know hospital admissions are being skewed at the minute that inflate Covid admissions. If someone breaks their hip and is admitted to hospital - they are recorded as a Covid admission if they test positive for this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:49:29 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 12:46:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:39:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 12:28:22 PM
Even if someone has covid, recovers, and gets run over by a bus a couple of week's later, they're put down as a covid death.
Have you a reputable link for this?

I've heard that from numerous sources. RTÉ, and BBC. It was even confirmed on Nolan show as correct.
Should be easy to provide a reputable link so
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 11, 2021, 12:51:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:41:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:35:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 12:15:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:56:45 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:51:23 AM

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.
Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.
What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?

Comparing apples and organges there.

No cure exists for AIDs as far as I know, it's something you live with for the rest of your life.

Covid is something which effectively lasts for 2 weeks.
Not at all

It's a very fair comparison to this ludicrous "died from Covid" v "died with Covid" nonsense

Did Mercury die from AIDS or pneumonia?

I couldn't tell you what Mercury died from. I'm neither or a doctor or pathologist.

I do that Covid deaths are recorded in an arbitrary manner and if someone has Covid when they die, they are added to the statistics regardless or whether they were admitted for that reason or showed any sign or symptom of Covid at the time of their death.

We know hospital admissions are being skewed at the minute that inflate Covid admissions. If someone breaks their hip and is admitted to hospital - they are recorded as a Covid admission if they test positive for this.

Why wouldn't they be marked as a Covid case if they test positive?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:52:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:41:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:35:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 12:15:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:56:45 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:51:23 AM

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.
Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.
What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?

Comparing apples and organges there.

No cure exists for AIDs as far as I know, it's something you live with for the rest of your life.

Covid is something which effectively lasts for 2 weeks.
Not at all

It's a very fair comparison to this ludicrous "died from Covid" v "died with Covid" nonsense

Did Mercury die from AIDS or pneumonia?

I couldn't tell you what Mercury died from. I'm neither or a doctor or pathologist.

I do that Covid deaths are recorded in an arbitrary manner and if someone has Covid when they die, they are added to the statistics regardless or whether they were admitted for that reason or showed any sign or symptom of Covid at the time of their death.

We know hospital admissions are being skewed at the minute that inflate Covid admissions. If someone breaks their hip and is admitted to hospital - they are recorded as a Covid admission if they test positive for this.
He had AIDS and the pneumonia he died from was AIDS related

It's not that hard - AIDS or pneumonia?

If somebody has Covid in hospital, they are a Covid admission

My father did not have Covid going into hospital, but he acquired it in hospital - why would he not be a Covid admission?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on January 11, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 11, 2021, 12:54:28 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 11, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html

I know the Den was back on but are Zig & Zag in charge of programming content now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:55:15 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 11, 2021, 12:42:03 PM
QuoteCovid lasts 2 weeks.

Not for everyone it doesn't.

I think they have changed how they report deaths in scenarios like an accident or something else like that. I have read that before. I don't think this is as bad as some people are making it out to be.

You edited my initial post.

It effectively lasts 2 weeks, might be more, might be less but 2 weeks is the common timeframe given for it to be transmissable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:57:35 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 11, 2021, 12:51:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:41:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:35:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 12:15:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:56:45 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:51:23 AM

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.
Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.
What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?

Comparing apples and organges there.

No cure exists for AIDs as far as I know, it's something you live with for the rest of your life.

Covid is something which effectively lasts for 2 weeks.
Not at all

It's a very fair comparison to this ludicrous "died from Covid" v "died with Covid" nonsense

Did Mercury die from AIDS or pneumonia?

I couldn't tell you what Mercury died from. I'm neither or a doctor or pathologist.

I do that Covid deaths are recorded in an arbitrary manner and if someone has Covid when they die, they are added to the statistics regardless or whether they were admitted for that reason or showed any sign or symptom of Covid at the time of their death.

We know hospital admissions are being skewed at the minute that inflate Covid admissions. If someone breaks their hip and is admitted to hospital - they are recorded as a Covid admission if they test positive for this.

Why wouldn't they be marked as a Covid case if they test positive?

Because they didn't die of Covid.

If you have someone who is terminally ill in hospital and they test positive for Covid - it's not Covid that killed them.

Could you imagine if we tested for flu and attributed deaths to anyone who died with a positive test for flu - how many flu deaths we would have every winter?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:59:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:52:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:41:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:35:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 12:15:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:56:45 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:51:23 AM

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.
Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.
What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?

Comparing apples and organges there.

No cure exists for AIDs as far as I know, it's something you live with for the rest of your life.

Covid is something which effectively lasts for 2 weeks.
Not at all

It's a very fair comparison to this ludicrous "died from Covid" v "died with Covid" nonsense

Did Mercury die from AIDS or pneumonia?

I couldn't tell you what Mercury died from. I'm neither or a doctor or pathologist.

I do that Covid deaths are recorded in an arbitrary manner and if someone has Covid when they die, they are added to the statistics regardless or whether they were admitted for that reason or showed any sign or symptom of Covid at the time of their death.

We know hospital admissions are being skewed at the minute that inflate Covid admissions. If someone breaks their hip and is admitted to hospital - they are recorded as a Covid admission if they test positive for this.
He had AIDS and the pneumonia he died from was AIDS related

It's not that hard - AIDS or pneumonia?

If somebody has Covid in hospital, they are a Covid admission

My father did not have Covid going into hospital, but he acquired it in hospital - why would he not be a Covid admission?

Because he was not admitted to hospital for Covid. He was admitted for another reason.

I can't answer the initial question and I don't think you can either with all due respect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 11, 2021, 01:01:47 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 12:42:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:33:02 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 12:15:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:12:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 11:06:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 10:26:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 09:57:13 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 11, 2021, 09:55:24 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on January 10, 2021, 07:29:15 PM
the virus will soon run out of people to infect so only then will the numbers decrease :(

Being infected once doesn't give immunity thereafter, in fact the general belief is that the vaccines being rolled out will need to be an annual thing.

Covid is here to stay with us for a while yet.

This is a complete grey area which doesn't bode well for science. How have they not uncovered this yet?

So basically your strategy is stay within your own demograph, stay away from the vulnerable and those over 70. Continue that till you fall into that demograph?

That seems the best of advice on thread, close it

We are administering vaccinations to the at risk and elderly groups at present.

I suppose it depends on how this vaccination works. We don't know yet if it actually works so if they are protected then society doesn't really have a reason to be shut down.

I'd like to agree with that statement, somehow I don't think it will be quite so straight forward or quick coming.

That said, in the North (as of yesterday),88k total had tested positive so to be at the stage already where we are going to outstrip positive total tests throughout the pandemic, that is a fantastic achievement really.

I also seen we've performed 1.2 million tests total. Christ that seems a bit high doesn't it? Maybe more reassuring if you think of it as a percentage.

All ifs, buts and maybes.

The stats have shown us that the virus is not serious to the vast amount of the population. We know from the figures released for the Mar-Aug deaths here that the Covid avg age of death is higher than the avg life expectancy, somewhere in the mid 90% of Covid deaths were over the age of 65, over 80s accounted for 66% of deaths. So providing the vaccine is effective and providing we have vulnerable groupings and healthcare workers vaccinated and this is proven to protect them - then we should be able to get on with things.

If the vaccine does not prevent contraction and transmission of the virus then what is the upside of the people in non-vulnerable groupings getting it? It's likely fairly minimal at best.

Yes, good point.

But non-vulnerables will get the vaccine. And theres a simple reason why - covid passport.

Yet there is probably no real upside.

I'm in no rush to travel abroad when this finishes. I'd be very wary of this vaccine at present and I wouldn't risk my health for the sake of a holiday until we know more about it.

I don't usually go abroad on holiday anyway so I don't care about that.

But if that was the only restriction imposed from not having the vaccine, I could live with that. But it won't be. They'll ensure that you need a vaccine to enter schools, workplaces, concerts, hospitals, doctor surgeries, sports events etc.

I honestly think this isn't about the virus anymore. There is much more going on here.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you Benny.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on January 11, 2021, 01:01:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 11, 2021, 12:44:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:37:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 11, 2021, 12:19:54 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:23:47 AM
They can't really get any tighter. Everything is closed. Bar the multinationals.

Wanna bet? I could see the following happen in the UK
- All takeaway closed
- Curfew 8pm - 6am
- Construction closed
- Enforced stay at home restrictions with only one household member permitted to leave home once a week

The numbers are off the scale and people aren't understanding it. Examples on this thread.

And of course there are absolutely no ramifications on the restrictions you propose, nevermind the current ones in action?

Have we had any cases attributed to takeaways yet?

There'll be loads of ramifications. Only a nutter would say there wouldn't be. But believe me if the health service becomes overwhelmed all those financial and mental problems will pale into insignificance. It's not exactly about cases around takeaways it's about getting through to people that they need to stay at home. It's like closing golf courses. It probably has a 0.00000001 effect on the R number but they need to get people to stay at home.
Personally, I think the NHS in NI won't cope and we're headed for an Italian style meltdown. Like I said earlier, we can argue about why that is later. For now I would encourage you to cut your interactions to the absolute bare minimum. These next two weeks will be crucial but if the number keep presenting to hospital and Nurses and other health staff are sick or isolating then it doesn't take a genius to see what will happen.

Agreed.
There's two parts to this.
1) There is the number of people who die from Covid....what ever that number is (overstated or understated), it can be reduced by reducing the transmission of Covid in the short term by not interacting with other people, wearing masks and washing your hands. In the medium/long term, the Vaccine will reduce the impact of Covid both in the number of deaths and the number of people becoming seriously ill.
2) There is the number of people who require hospital treatment due to Covid. Hospitals are currently at breaking point. The knock on effect is that other services within the NHS are suffering as a result. Mostly due to staffing. Staff get re-allocated on a highest need basis to ICUs and so the NHS has to take measure to ensure they have enough staff to man those beds. Decreasing the number of Covid cases, decreases demand on all NHS services...not just the ICUs. Short term resolution is to break the chains of transmission by...not interacting with other people, wearing masksn and washing your hands. And again the Vaccine is the medium/long term solution.

No-one wants lock down. No-one wants the patient waiting for heart surgery to have the operation delayed. No-one wants their Granny to die from Covid or their sister from the flu. To listen to some on here, you would think that this is an either/or choice in terms of who to treat. My understanding of how the NHS works, is that each patient is triaged and the those of highest priority at that point in time get treated first.
At the moment, with the number of covid cases in hospital statistically the highest priority will be covid patients.

The only way to reduce pressure on the NHS and in doing so reduce the number of deaths regardless of what those numbers are and regardless of what the cause is, is to reduce the spread of Covid.

As for those who don't trust the Vaccine, well they have been approved by the same bodies who approve all other Vaccines. Vaccines which include the Flu Vaccine, Measles Vaccine, Polio Vaccine etc. If you don't trust the professionals who have the knowledge and access to the scientific data used to assess the Covid Vaccine, then why would you trust any of the other Vaccines? It's a nonsense to say the Vaccine isn't safe or that it hasn't been properly approved or tested with an in-depth comparison of how it was approved in relation to other approved Vaccine's currently in use. to say it isn't safe or to share opinions of not trusting could actually hinder the reduction in transmission of the virus as someone will always believe what they read on the internet.

The chains of transmission need to be broken AND the Vaccine needs to be rolled out en-masse to reduce the effects of Covid on the population. Otherwise we'll never get out of this cycle of lockdowns and surges.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 11, 2021, 01:03:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: APM on January 11, 2021, 12:03:22 PM
https://twitter.com/GabrielScally/status/1348343393605312513

I'm not saying this is correct and there was one reply to the OP that challenged some of the findings.  However, it really does highlight how little is known about the long term impact of this disease on individual / public health. 

So many people think they know the truth of this disease and are trying to speak authoritatively on so many aspects of it.  We have plenty of them on this discussion board and people are guilty of it on multiple sides of the debate.

People need to accept that one of the most dangerous aspects of this disease is the unknown. Will the vaccines work against emerging strains? Don't know. What are the long term implications of Covid on individual health? Don't know. Why do some people get long covid? Don't know.  When will we be back to normal? - Don't know? 

At this stage, I have had my fill of nonsense from uninformed Covid deniers in particular who think that their understanding is better than anyone else. When someone posts on Twitter, that their 21 year old son has been admitted to hospital with Covid, people seem compelled to chastise this concerned parent that Covid is no different than the flu. We are now at risk of an Italian style outbreak and yet we still see this nonsense being peddled. 

Notwithstanding the social implications of lockdowns etc, the only people that have a right to speak authoritatively on the disease itself are experts who have years of training in relevant areas. The experts are having to prevaricate because there is so much that is unknown - at least they do that.  Lots of people who have no real understanding of medicine or epidemiology seem to be able to speak with more conviction and apparent knowledge than the experts - that's because they are good at talking and don't mind giving opinions about things that they really know nothing about.

The rest of us have a right to our opinions, but in my mind, people have no business lecturing and hectoring others on something so complex that they really do not understand.  Question/ challenge certainly, but social media is now full of dangerous individuals pedaling alternative truths and they do not deserve people's attention.

What about the long term impact of the vaccine on the person who take it.

What you'll find is experts have conflicting views on this and how it has been handled. Anyone who doesn't agree with the mainstream thinking is coined a crank or conspiracy theorist because they have an opposing view, irrespective of their expertise.

Expertise is the most flimsy line of argument out there when the scientific and medical community have very different views on this.

No they don't
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 11, 2021, 01:06:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 11, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html
For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 01:09:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:59:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:52:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:41:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:35:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 12:15:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:56:45 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:51:23 AM

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.
Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.
What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?

Comparing apples and organges there.

No cure exists for AIDs as far as I know, it's something you live with for the rest of your life.

Covid is something which effectively lasts for 2 weeks.
Not at all

It's a very fair comparison to this ludicrous "died from Covid" v "died with Covid" nonsense

Did Mercury die from AIDS or pneumonia?

I couldn't tell you what Mercury died from. I'm neither or a doctor or pathologist.

I do that Covid deaths are recorded in an arbitrary manner and if someone has Covid when they die, they are added to the statistics regardless or whether they were admitted for that reason or showed any sign or symptom of Covid at the time of their death.

We know hospital admissions are being skewed at the minute that inflate Covid admissions. If someone breaks their hip and is admitted to hospital - they are recorded as a Covid admission if they test positive for this.
He had AIDS and the pneumonia he died from was AIDS related

It's not that hard - AIDS or pneumonia?

If somebody has Covid in hospital, they are a Covid admission

My father did not have Covid going into hospital, but he acquired it in hospital - why would he not be a Covid admission?

Because he was not admitted to hospital for Covid. He was admitted for another reason.

I can't answer the initial question and I don't think you can either with all due respect.
But he has Covid

He is in hospital for Covid

He is in a Covid isolation ward - previously he was in a non-Covid public ward - that is a Covid admission

What you are saying is that hospital acquired Covid should not be counted as part of the statistics - but that's nonsense
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 01:17:17 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 11, 2021, 01:03:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: APM on January 11, 2021, 12:03:22 PM
https://twitter.com/GabrielScally/status/1348343393605312513

I'm not saying this is correct and there was one reply to the OP that challenged some of the findings.  However, it really does highlight how little is known about the long term impact of this disease on individual / public health. 

So many people think they know the truth of this disease and are trying to speak authoritatively on so many aspects of it.  We have plenty of them on this discussion board and people are guilty of it on multiple sides of the debate.

People need to accept that one of the most dangerous aspects of this disease is the unknown. Will the vaccines work against emerging strains? Don't know. What are the long term implications of Covid on individual health? Don't know. Why do some people get long covid? Don't know.  When will we be back to normal? - Don't know? 

At this stage, I have had my fill of nonsense from uninformed Covid deniers in particular who think that their understanding is better than anyone else. When someone posts on Twitter, that their 21 year old son has been admitted to hospital with Covid, people seem compelled to chastise this concerned parent that Covid is no different than the flu. We are now at risk of an Italian style outbreak and yet we still see this nonsense being peddled. 

Notwithstanding the social implications of lockdowns etc, the only people that have a right to speak authoritatively on the disease itself are experts who have years of training in relevant areas. The experts are having to prevaricate because there is so much that is unknown - at least they do that.  Lots of people who have no real understanding of medicine or epidemiology seem to be able to speak with more conviction and apparent knowledge than the experts - that's because they are good at talking and don't mind giving opinions about things that they really know nothing about.

The rest of us have a right to our opinions, but in my mind, people have no business lecturing and hectoring others on something so complex that they really do not understand.  Question/ challenge certainly, but social media is now full of dangerous individuals pedaling alternative truths and they do not deserve people's attention.

What about the long term impact of the vaccine on the person who take it.

What you'll find is experts have conflicting views on this and how it has been handled. Anyone who doesn't agree with the mainstream thinking is coined a crank or conspiracy theorist because they have an opposing view, irrespective of their expertise.

Expertise is the most flimsy line of argument out there when the scientific and medical community have very different views on this.

No they don't
There are a small minority of "experts" who have outed themselves as ideological charlatans, who took a particular wrong position early on and have dug into that position in the face of all the evidence - they have decided to enter a fantasy world where they construct a fake reality where they desperately look for evidence to justify the wrong position they took

This is a direct reversal of how medical science should work, this is ideology at work

These are the Great Barrington crowd and especially Sunetra Gupta

We don't hear much from Martin Feely these days, wonder why, I don't actually, it's because he was a crank

Unfortunately we still hear from Karl Deeter
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 01:23:49 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 11, 2021, 01:03:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: APM on January 11, 2021, 12:03:22 PM
https://twitter.com/GabrielScally/status/1348343393605312513

I'm not saying this is correct and there was one reply to the OP that challenged some of the findings.  However, it really does highlight how little is known about the long term impact of this disease on individual / public health. 

So many people think they know the truth of this disease and are trying to speak authoritatively on so many aspects of it.  We have plenty of them on this discussion board and people are guilty of it on multiple sides of the debate.

People need to accept that one of the most dangerous aspects of this disease is the unknown. Will the vaccines work against emerging strains? Don't know. What are the long term implications of Covid on individual health? Don't know. Why do some people get long covid? Don't know.  When will we be back to normal? - Don't know? 

At this stage, I have had my fill of nonsense from uninformed Covid deniers in particular who think that their understanding is better than anyone else. When someone posts on Twitter, that their 21 year old son has been admitted to hospital with Covid, people seem compelled to chastise this concerned parent that Covid is no different than the flu. We are now at risk of an Italian style outbreak and yet we still see this nonsense being peddled. 

Notwithstanding the social implications of lockdowns etc, the only people that have a right to speak authoritatively on the disease itself are experts who have years of training in relevant areas. The experts are having to prevaricate because there is so much that is unknown - at least they do that.  Lots of people who have no real understanding of medicine or epidemiology seem to be able to speak with more conviction and apparent knowledge than the experts - that's because they are good at talking and don't mind giving opinions about things that they really know nothing about.

The rest of us have a right to our opinions, but in my mind, people have no business lecturing and hectoring others on something so complex that they really do not understand.  Question/ challenge certainly, but social media is now full of dangerous individuals pedaling alternative truths and they do not deserve people's attention.

What about the long term impact of the vaccine on the person who take it.

What you'll find is experts have conflicting views on this and how it has been handled. Anyone who doesn't agree with the mainstream thinking is coined a crank or conspiracy theorist because they have an opposing view, irrespective of their expertise.

Expertise is the most flimsy line of argument out there when the scientific and medical community have very different views on this.

No they don't

You are either ignorant or a liar.

Plenty of experts are at odds on this.

Your type of dogmatic narrative only serves to undermine your argument.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 01:24:17 PM
So lock it down and vaxx
And bring the wellness back
Do lockdown and vaxx and bring the wellness back

If the Covid is gone, it's good for you
So lock it down and vaxx, yeah, you know just what to do
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 01:26:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 01:09:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:59:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:52:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:41:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 12:35:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 12:15:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 11:56:45 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 11:51:23 AM

Fairly morbid one by me here. But what I would like, is reassurance that Covid cannot be put on the death certs of those who have received the vaccination from here on.

If we are to say all over 80s have now been vaccinated, surely, they cannot appear as statistics in death going forward attributed to Covid? I understand Covid is being used as an umbrella group for various other ailments at the moment due to the fact it goes unquestioned etc.

Again, that's one I'll hold my breath on.
Why?

Because a Covid death being counted as a Covid death hurts your feelings?

Why are you asking for censorship?

I'm asking for accuracy. There is a big, big difference.
What killed Freddie Mercury? AIDS or pneumonia? Did he die from AIDS or "with" AIDS, whatever that's supposed to mean?

Comparing apples and organges there.

No cure exists for AIDs as far as I know, it's something you live with for the rest of your life.

Covid is something which effectively lasts for 2 weeks.
Not at all

It's a very fair comparison to this ludicrous "died from Covid" v "died with Covid" nonsense

Did Mercury die from AIDS or pneumonia?

I couldn't tell you what Mercury died from. I'm neither or a doctor or pathologist.

I do that Covid deaths are recorded in an arbitrary manner and if someone has Covid when they die, they are added to the statistics regardless or whether they were admitted for that reason or showed any sign or symptom of Covid at the time of their death.

We know hospital admissions are being skewed at the minute that inflate Covid admissions. If someone breaks their hip and is admitted to hospital - they are recorded as a Covid admission if they test positive for this.
He had AIDS and the pneumonia he died from was AIDS related

It's not that hard - AIDS or pneumonia?

If somebody has Covid in hospital, they are a Covid admission

My father did not have Covid going into hospital, but he acquired it in hospital - why would he not be a Covid admission?

Because he was not admitted to hospital for Covid. He was admitted for another reason.

I can't answer the initial question and I don't think you can either with all due respect.
But he has Covid

He is in hospital for Covid

He is in a Covid isolation ward - previously he was in a non-Covid public ward - that is a Covid admission

What you are saying is that hospital acquired Covid should not be counted as part of the statistics - but that's nonsense

But he was not admitted for Covid.

He did not need to be hospitalised because he contracted Covid, the reason he was in hospital is relating to another matter. Could you imagine if we classified flu in the same manner during the flu season and that's not trying to downgrade Covid. Flu can be very serious to at risk groupings.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 01:32:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 01:26:04 PM

But he was not admitted for Covid.

He did not need to be hospitalised because he contracted Covid, the reason he was in hospital is relating to another matter. Could you imagine if we classified flu in the same manner during the flu season and that's not trying to downgrade Covid. Flu can be very serious to at risk groupings.
Sigh
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2021, 01:06:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 11, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html
For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!

Aye, and I seen Elvis driving past my house yesterday!

As someone said earlier, if anyone has a different view on things, they're a nut.

Well, if not fully trusting what politicians, governments, media and pharmaceuticals tell us about this is being a nut, then so be it.

So many people have commented here on things that don't add up. Why big businesses open, small ones close, the covid death numbers, untested vaccines and their side affects etc etc. Most people know this whole charade doesn't add up. Why not scratch the surface and do a little thinking.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 01:34:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2021, 01:06:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 11, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html
For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!

Aye, and I seen Elvis driving past my house yesterday!

As someone said earlier, if anyone has a different view on things, they're a nut.

Well, if not fully trusting what politicians, governments, media and pharmaceuticals tell us about this is being a nut, then so be it.

So many people have commented here on things that don't add up. Why big businesses open, small ones close, the covid death numbers, untested vaccines and their side affects etc etc. Most people know this whole charade doesn't add up. Why not scratch the surface and do a little thinking.

Not to mention the eradication of seasonal flu this winter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 01:43:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2021, 01:06:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 11, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html
For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!

Aye, and I seen Elvis driving past my house yesterday!

As someone said earlier, if anyone has a different view on things, they're a nut.

Well, if not fully trusting what politicians, governments, media and pharmaceuticals tell us about this is being a nut, then so be it.

So many people have commented here on things that don't add up. Why big businesses open, small ones close, the covid death numbers, untested vaccines and their side affects etc etc. Most people know this whole charade doesn't add up. Why not scratch the surface and do a little thinking.

The other day you said this

Quote from: BennyCake on January 07, 2021, 10:17:43 PM
Hancock saying now that people will probably need to be vaccinated every 6 months. Or at least every year. 

This ain't going away. It was never meant to.

This isn't about fighting a virus. It's about selling vaccines.

That's full Gemtrails tinfoil hat plandemic eejitry
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 01:34:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2021, 01:06:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 11, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html
For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!

Aye, and I seen Elvis driving past my house yesterday!

As someone said earlier, if anyone has a different view on things, they're a nut.

Well, if not fully trusting what politicians, governments, media and pharmaceuticals tell us about this is being a nut, then so be it.

So many people have commented here on things that don't add up. Why big businesses open, small ones close, the covid death numbers, untested vaccines and their side affects etc etc. Most people know this whole charade doesn't add up. Why not scratch the surface and do a little thinking.

Not to mention the eradication of seasonal flu this winter.

Lie!!

Over 14,000 the year 2020 so you have to stop making thing up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 01:56:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 01:34:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2021, 01:06:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 11, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html
For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!

Aye, and I seen Elvis driving past my house yesterday!

As someone said earlier, if anyone has a different view on things, they're a nut.

Well, if not fully trusting what politicians, governments, media and pharmaceuticals tell us about this is being a nut, then so be it.

So many people have commented here on things that don't add up. Why big businesses open, small ones close, the covid death numbers, untested vaccines and their side affects etc etc. Most people know this whole charade doesn't add up. Why not scratch the surface and do a little thinking.

Not to mention the eradication of seasonal flu this winter.

Lie!!

Over 14,000 the year 2020 so you have to stop making thing up

This winter?

You must be illiterate as you are answering something I did not ask?

How many flu cases this winter (not 2020)?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 02:01:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 01:56:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 01:34:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2021, 01:06:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 11, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html
For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!

Aye, and I seen Elvis driving past my house yesterday!

As someone said earlier, if anyone has a different view on things, they're a nut.

Well, if not fully trusting what politicians, governments, media and pharmaceuticals tell us about this is being a nut, then so be it.

So many people have commented here on things that don't add up. Why big businesses open, small ones close, the covid death numbers, untested vaccines and their side affects etc etc. Most people know this whole charade doesn't add up. Why not scratch the surface and do a little thinking.

Not to mention the eradication of seasonal flu this winter.

Lie!!

Over 14,000 the year 2020 so you have to stop making thing up

This winter?

You must be illiterate as you are answering something I did not ask?

How many flu cases this winter (not 2020)?

for the last 11 days?

Who'd have that information?  The year 2020 which was 12 days ago had over 14,000 deaths.

This last 11 days I haven't that information. Where did you get the information on no deaths?

If you haven't the information then you are making up figures on your own
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 02:06:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 01:43:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2021, 01:06:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 11, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html
For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!

Aye, and I seen Elvis driving past my house yesterday!

As someone said earlier, if anyone has a different view on things, they're a nut.

Well, if not fully trusting what politicians, governments, media and pharmaceuticals tell us about this is being a nut, then so be it.

So many people have commented here on things that don't add up. Why big businesses open, small ones close, the covid death numbers, untested vaccines and their side affects etc etc. Most people know this whole charade doesn't add up. Why not scratch the surface and do a little thinking.

The other day you said this

Quote from: BennyCake on January 07, 2021, 10:17:43 PM
Hancock saying now that people will probably need to be vaccinated every 6 months. Or at least every year. 

This ain't going away. It was never meant to.

This isn't about fighting a virus. It's about selling vaccines.

That's full Gemtrails tinfoil hat plandemic eejitry

If you say so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 11, 2021, 02:16:38 PM
So what is the agenda Benny? I have heard of this before and I don't understand what people think the agenda is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 02:21:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 02:01:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 01:56:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 01:34:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2021, 01:06:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 11, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html
For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!

Aye, and I seen Elvis driving past my house yesterday!

As someone said earlier, if anyone has a different view on things, they're a nut.

Well, if not fully trusting what politicians, governments, media and pharmaceuticals tell us about this is being a nut, then so be it.

So many people have commented here on things that don't add up. Why big businesses open, small ones close, the covid death numbers, untested vaccines and their side affects etc etc. Most people know this whole charade doesn't add up. Why not scratch the surface and do a little thinking.

Not to mention the eradication of seasonal flu this winter.

Lie!!

Over 14,000 the year 2020 so you have to stop making thing up

This winter?

You must be illiterate as you are answering something I did not ask?

How many flu cases this winter (not 2020)?

for the last 11 days?

Who'd have that information?  The year 2020 which was 12 days ago had over 14,000 deaths.

This last 11 days I haven't that information. Where did you get the information on no deaths?

If you haven't the information then you are making up figures on your own

The winter flu starts in Nov/Dec every year.

Why have we not have one confirmed case of flu this winter? It's flabbergasting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 02:36:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 01:32:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 01:26:04 PM

But he was not admitted for Covid.

He did not need to be hospitalised because he contracted Covid, the reason he was in hospital is relating to another matter. Could you imagine if we classified flu in the same manner during the flu season and that's not trying to downgrade Covid. Flu can be very serious to at risk groupings.
Sigh

If I was in hospital after a car crash and I picked up flu inside. Am I there because I got flu or is the reason I'm in hospital completely unrelated to that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 11, 2021, 02:37:15 PM
This thread is a perfect example of disinformation and lies. Twitter, Facebook eventually took action against Trump and others. Why aren't the Mods here following suit? People who spread lies and disinformation continually should be banned.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 02:48:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 11, 2021, 02:37:15 PM
This thread is a perfect example of disinformation and lies. Twitter, Facebook eventually took action against Trump and others. Why aren't the Mods here following suit? People who spread lies and disinformation continually should be banned.

How many Covid cases are related to takeaways?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 02:56:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 11, 2021, 02:37:15 PM
This thread is a perfect example of disinformation and lies. Twitter, Facebook eventually took action against Trump and others. Why aren't the Mods here following suit? People who spread lies and disinformation continually should be banned.

After 700 odd pages your only getting here now?  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 02:56:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 02:21:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 02:01:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 01:56:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 01:34:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2021, 01:06:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 11, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html
For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!

Aye, and I seen Elvis driving past my house yesterday!

As someone said earlier, if anyone has a different view on things, they're a nut.

Well, if not fully trusting what politicians, governments, media and pharmaceuticals tell us about this is being a nut, then so be it.

So many people have commented here on things that don't add up. Why big businesses open, small ones close, the covid death numbers, untested vaccines and their side affects etc etc. Most people know this whole charade doesn't add up. Why not scratch the surface and do a little thinking.

Not to mention the eradication of seasonal flu this winter.

Lie!!

Over 14,000 the year 2020 so you have to stop making thing up

This winter?

You must be illiterate as you are answering something I did not ask?

How many flu cases this winter (not 2020)?

for the last 11 days?

Who'd have that information?  The year 2020 which was 12 days ago had over 14,000 deaths.

This last 11 days I haven't that information. Where did you get the information on no deaths?

If you haven't the information then you are making up figures on your own

The winter flu starts in Nov/Dec every year.

Why have we not have one confirmed case of flu this winter? It's flabbergasting.




There are multiple reasons as to why Flu and other seasonal virus's haven't been hit hard this year and hopefully that continues..

Reasons given:
Less contact
Less people flying from country to country
Increased flu jabs, highest ever worldwide
Cross protection from the various different

So bottom line

Flu activity remains surprisingly low this year, largely in part to the safety precautions in place to prevent COVID-19.

Furthermore, more flu vaccines have been shipped out this year than ever before, and overall flu vaccination rates are strong.

There's still time for the flu to explode. Flu cases are scattered across the country right now.

Fingers crossed that this is the way it'll continue, but it's on Jan, we still have a long way to go

Though I still don't get where you are going with why flu is not being reported? What it got to do with this totally different virus? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 11, 2021, 03:08:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 02:48:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 11, 2021, 02:37:15 PM
This thread is a perfect example of disinformation and lies. Twitter, Facebook eventually took action against Trump and others. Why aren't the Mods here following suit? People who spread lies and disinformation continually should be banned.

How many Covid cases are related to takeaways?

I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean? Patriot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on January 11, 2021, 03:38:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 02:56:58 PM

There are multiple reasons as to why Flu and other seasonal virus's haven't been hit hard this year and hopefully that continues..

Reasons given:
Less contact
Less people flying from country to country
Increased flu jabs, highest ever worldwide

Odd that someone makes you spell that out. Blazingly obvious why flu rates are well down this winter so far.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 03:49:43 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 11, 2021, 03:38:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 02:56:58 PM

There are multiple reasons as to why Flu and other seasonal virus's haven't been hit hard this year and hopefully that continues..

Reasons given:
Less contact
Less people flying from country to country
Increased flu jabs, highest ever worldwide

Odd that someone makes you spell that out. Blazingly obvious why flu rates are well down this winter so far.

I'm more concerned with why we are talking about flu. Not comparable, or to use something that Angelo uses, comparing apples and oranges
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on January 11, 2021, 03:59:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2021, 01:06:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 11, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html
For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!

Aye, and I seen Elvis driving past my house yesterday!

As someone said earlier, if anyone has a different view on things, they're a nut.

Well, if not fully trusting what politicians, governments, media and pharmaceuticals tell us about this is being a nut, then so be it.

So many people have commented here on things that don't add up. Why big businesses open, small ones close, the covid death numbers, untested vaccines and their side affects etc etc. Most people know this whole charade doesn't add up. Why not scratch the surface and do a little thinking.

Why is that you think big business open and small ones close? Spell that out please.

And why are the big hotel chains, airlines, casinos, etc, etc missing out? Are they not big business?

I'm very thankful many businesses are able to continue operating during the pandemic. Corporation tax receipts actually went up in Ireland in 2020 - by nearly €1billion. The country would be in a much bigger financial deficit without it. And income tax receipts only down by 1% is one of the strongest performances in Europe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 11, 2021, 04:12:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 03:49:43 PM
I'm more concerned with why we are talking about flu. Not comparable, or to use something that Angelo uses, comparing apples and oranges

More like comparing blackberries and jackfruit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 04:14:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 02:56:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 02:21:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 02:01:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 01:56:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 01:34:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 11, 2021, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2021, 01:06:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 11, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
Poor old RTE, they just dont get it...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/this-is-all-kinds-of-wrong-rte-face-calls-not-to-broadcast-claire-byrne-live-outside-hospital-39955017.html
For fk sake!!!
Nearly as bad as when they sent Caitríona Perry from Dublin and Tommy Gorman from Belfast to  Derry to report that Covid was rife there!!

I see Bennycake is going full tinfoil hat!!

Aye, and I seen Elvis driving past my house yesterday!

As someone said earlier, if anyone has a different view on things, they're a nut.

Well, if not fully trusting what politicians, governments, media and pharmaceuticals tell us about this is being a nut, then so be it.

So many people have commented here on things that don't add up. Why big businesses open, small ones close, the covid death numbers, untested vaccines and their side affects etc etc. Most people know this whole charade doesn't add up. Why not scratch the surface and do a little thinking.

Not to mention the eradication of seasonal flu this winter.

Lie!!

Over 14,000 the year 2020 so you have to stop making thing up

This winter?

You must be illiterate as you are answering something I did not ask?

How many flu cases this winter (not 2020)?

for the last 11 days?

Who'd have that information?  The year 2020 which was 12 days ago had over 14,000 deaths.

This last 11 days I haven't that information. Where did you get the information on no deaths?

If you haven't the information then you are making up figures on your own

The winter flu starts in Nov/Dec every year.

Why have we not have one confirmed case of flu this winter? It's flabbergasting.




There are multiple reasons as to why Flu and other seasonal virus's haven't been hit hard this year and hopefully that continues..

Reasons given:
Less contact
Less people flying from country to country
Increased flu jabs, highest ever worldwide
Cross protection from the various different

So bottom line

Flu activity remains surprisingly low this year, largely in part to the safety precautions in place to prevent COVID-19.

Furthermore, more flu vaccines have been shipped out this year than ever before, and overall flu vaccination rates are strong.

There's still time for the flu to explode. Flu cases are scattered across the country right now.

Fingers crossed that this is the way it'll continue, but it's on Jan, we still have a long way to go

Though I still don't get where you are going with why flu is not being reported? What it got to do with this totally different virus?

Absolute nonsense.

Every winter the world is rampaged by seasonal flu with increases in deaths and hospitalisations. Are we to believe it just magically disappeared this year? Yes or no.

We have flu vaccines every year, it is transmitted the same way as Covid is. So you tell me, why no seasonal flu this winter?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 04:16:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 11, 2021, 03:08:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 02:48:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 11, 2021, 02:37:15 PM
This thread is a perfect example of disinformation and lies. Twitter, Facebook eventually took action against Trump and others. Why aren't the Mods here following suit? People who spread lies and disinformation continually should be banned.

How many Covid cases are related to takeaways?

I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean? Patriot.

It's a simple question.

You called for a ban of takeaways to drive down Covid.

Can you tell me how many cases of Covid are related to takeaways?

It seems that disinformation is your choice of pedalling fear and hysteria.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 04:16:52 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 11, 2021, 03:38:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 02:56:58 PM

There are multiple reasons as to why Flu and other seasonal virus's haven't been hit hard this year and hopefully that continues..

Reasons given:
Less contact
Less people flying from country to country
Increased flu jabs, highest ever worldwide

Odd that someone makes you spell that out. Blazingly obvious why flu rates are well down this winter so far.

And why has Covid surging at world record levels?

As for well down??????????????????????????

They don't exist FFS, flu has been eradicated if we believe this insane line being trotted out. We have no winter flu in seasonal winter flu peak time, it is preposterous.

Some of you people are thick as utter planks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 04:18:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 03:49:43 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 11, 2021, 03:38:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 02:56:58 PM

There are multiple reasons as to why Flu and other seasonal virus's haven't been hit hard this year and hopefully that continues..

Reasons given:
Less contact
Less people flying from country to country
Increased flu jabs, highest ever worldwide

Odd that someone makes you spell that out. Blazingly obvious why flu rates are well down this winter so far.

I'm more concerned with why we are talking about flu. Not comparable, or to use something that Angelo uses, comparing apples and oranges

Another asshole trying to diminish the severity of seasonal flu.

Why have we not reached the death totals of season flu in Jan 2018 yet?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 04:20:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 04:18:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 03:49:43 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 11, 2021, 03:38:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 02:56:58 PM

There are multiple reasons as to why Flu and other seasonal virus's haven't been hit hard this year and hopefully that continues..

Reasons given:
Less contact
Less people flying from country to country
Increased flu jabs, highest ever worldwide

Odd that someone makes you spell that out. Blazingly obvious why flu rates are well down this winter so far.

I'm more concerned with why we are talking about flu. Not comparable, or to use something that Angelo uses, comparing apples and oranges

Another asshole trying to diminish the severity of seasonal flu.

Why have we not reached the death totals of season flu in Jan 2018 yet?

Are you trying to say that covid is just flu disguised as covid?

Do I need to get the tinfoil out for this?

I've asked you to try and explain what you mean. But no , rather call me an asshole, that really works Seaney/angelo/syfreus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 04:24:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 04:20:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 04:18:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 03:49:43 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 11, 2021, 03:38:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 02:56:58 PM

There are multiple reasons as to why Flu and other seasonal virus's haven't been hit hard this year and hopefully that continues..

Reasons given:
Less contact
Less people flying from country to country
Increased flu jabs, highest ever worldwide

Odd that someone makes you spell that out. Blazingly obvious why flu rates are well down this winter so far.

I'm more concerned with why we are talking about flu. Not comparable, or to use something that Angelo uses, comparing apples and oranges

Another asshole trying to diminish the severity of seasonal flu.

Why have we not reached the death totals of season flu in Jan 2018 yet?

Are you trying to say that covid is just flu disguised as covid?

Do I need to get the tinfoil out for this?

I've asked you to try and explain what you mean. But no , rather call me an asshole, that really works Seaney/angelo/syfreus

Why have we not reached the death totals of Jan 2018 yet?

It's a simple question.

Why is Covid spreading like the plague during this winter when the flu isn't given that transmission happens in the same way? Why do you ignore seasonal spikes in excess death rates every winter when seasonal flu comes around?

You have given an answer to a question that extends beyond any comprehensible level of logic. The factors you have given for the reduction in the level of flu should mean we have very little Covid levels but they are going in opposite directions.

The lack of seasonal flu this winter lacks any sort of credibility.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 04:43:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 04:24:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 04:20:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 04:18:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 03:49:43 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 11, 2021, 03:38:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 02:56:58 PM

There are multiple reasons as to why Flu and other seasonal virus's haven't been hit hard this year and hopefully that continues..

Reasons given:
Less contact
Less people flying from country to country
Increased flu jabs, highest ever worldwide

Odd that someone makes you spell that out. Blazingly obvious why flu rates are well down this winter so far.

I'm more concerned with why we are talking about flu. Not comparable, or to use something that Angelo uses, comparing apples and oranges

Another asshole trying to diminish the severity of seasonal flu.

Why have we not reached the death totals of season flu in Jan 2018 yet?

Are you trying to say that covid is just flu disguised as covid?

Do I need to get the tinfoil out for this?

I've asked you to try and explain what you mean. But no , rather call me an asshole, that really works Seaney/angelo/syfreus

Why have we not reached the death totals of Jan 2018 yet? Is there not differences in the flu every year, and that year was the highest in 40 years?

It's a simple question.

Why is Covid spreading like the plague during this winter when the flu isn't given that transmission happens in the same way? Why do you ignore seasonal spikes in excess death rates every winter when seasonal flu comes around? Transmission is easier to catch than flu as its completely different, I ignore seasonal spikes as they are seasonal and this is not related to seasons and is a yearly thing, so generally I'll not discuss flu in the spring summer autumn months. When its bad at winter, I'll discuss it

You have given an answer to a question that extends beyond any comprehensible level of logic. The factors you have given for the reduction in the level of flu should mean we have very little Covid levels but they are going in opposite directions. Again, if anything has shown us with this covid is that the transmission is far easier than catching flu, I've been around many people that have had the flu, when working as a teacher I'd be in an environment where flus were very common, I've only ever had flu once, I was 18

The lack of seasonal flu this winter lacks any sort of credibility. Do you wish to have the flu as well as the Covid, or is it your idea that they are one of the same? I'm confused with your musing on flu, when we are talking covid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 04:48:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 04:43:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 04:24:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 04:20:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 04:18:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 03:49:43 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 11, 2021, 03:38:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 02:56:58 PM

There are multiple reasons as to why Flu and other seasonal virus's haven't been hit hard this year and hopefully that continues..

Reasons given:
Less contact
Less people flying from country to country
Increased flu jabs, highest ever worldwide

Odd that someone makes you spell that out. Blazingly obvious why flu rates are well down this winter so far.

I'm more concerned with why we are talking about flu. Not comparable, or to use something that Angelo uses, comparing apples and oranges

Another asshole trying to diminish the severity of seasonal flu.

Why have we not reached the death totals of season flu in Jan 2018 yet?

Are you trying to say that covid is just flu disguised as covid?

Do I need to get the tinfoil out for this?

I've asked you to try and explain what you mean. But no , rather call me an asshole, that really works Seaney/angelo/syfreus

Why have we not reached the death totals of Jan 2018 yet? Is there not differences in the flu every year, and that year was the highest in 40 years?

It's a simple question.

Why is Covid spreading like the plague during this winter when the flu isn't given that transmission happens in the same way? Why do you ignore seasonal spikes in excess death rates every winter when seasonal flu comes around? Transmission is easier to catch than flu as its completely different, I ignore seasonal spikes as they are seasonal and this is not related to seasons and is a yearly thing, so generally I'll not discuss flu in the spring summer autumn months. When its bad at winter, I'll discuss it

You have given an answer to a question that extends beyond any comprehensible level of logic. The factors you have given for the reduction in the level of flu should mean we have very little Covid levels but they are going in opposite directions. Again, if anything has shown us with this covid is that the transmission is far easier than catching flu, I've been around many people that have had the flu, when working as a teacher I'd be in an environment where flus were very common, I've only ever had flu once, I was 18

The lack of seasonal flu this winter lacks any sort of credibility. Do you wish to have the flu as well as the Covid, or is it your idea that they are one of the same? I'm confused with your musing on flu, when we are talking covid

Utterly preposterous logic

How do you know you had flu? Did you return a positive flu test?

The stupidity levels to actually believe seasonal flu has magically disappeared this winter takes the biscuit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 04:53:22 PM
Republic daily rate the highest in the world?

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0111/1188856-ireland-covid-latest/

Where is that fella that loved throwing dirt as us outcast Nordies ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 05:01:02 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 11, 2021, 04:53:22 PM
Republic daily rate the highest in the world?

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0111/1188856-ireland-covid-latest/

Where is that fella that loved throwing dirt as us outcast Nordies ?

Notable by his sneery, condescending absence.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 05:16:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 04:48:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 04:43:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 04:24:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 04:20:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 11, 2021, 04:18:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 03:49:43 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 11, 2021, 03:38:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 02:56:58 PM

There are multiple reasons as to why Flu and other seasonal virus's haven't been hit hard this year and hopefully that continues..

Reasons given:
Less contact
Less people flying from country to country
Increased flu jabs, highest ever worldwide

Odd that someone makes you spell that out. Blazingly obvious why flu rates are well down this winter so far.

I'm more concerned with why we are talking about flu. Not comparable, or to use something that Angelo uses, comparing apples and oranges

Another asshole trying to diminish the severity of seasonal flu.

Why have we not reached the death totals of season flu in Jan 2018 yet?

Are you trying to say that covid is just flu disguised as covid?

Do I need to get the tinfoil out for this?

I've asked you to try and explain what you mean. But no , rather call me an asshole, that really works Seaney/angelo/syfreus

Why have we not reached the death totals of Jan 2018 yet? Is there not differences in the flu every year, and that year was the highest in 40 years?

It's a simple question.

Why is Covid spreading like the plague during this winter when the flu isn't given that transmission happens in the same way? Why do you ignore seasonal spikes in excess death rates every winter when seasonal flu comes around? Transmission is easier to catch than flu as its completely different, I ignore seasonal spikes as they are seasonal and this is not related to seasons and is a yearly thing, so generally I'll not discuss flu in the spring summer autumn months. When its bad at winter, I'll discuss it

You have given an answer to a question that extends beyond any comprehensible level of logic. The factors you have given for the reduction in the level of flu should mean we have very little Covid levels but they are going in opposite directions. Again, if anything has shown us with this covid is that the transmission is far easier than catching flu, I've been around many people that have had the flu, when working as a teacher I'd be in an environment where flus were very common, I've only ever had flu once, I was 18

The lack of seasonal flu this winter lacks any sort of credibility. Do you wish to have the flu as well as the Covid, or is it your idea that they are one of the same? I'm confused with your musing on flu, when we are talking covid

Utterly preposterous logic

How do you know you had flu? Did you return a positive flu test?

The stupidity levels to actually believe seasonal flu has magically disappeared this winter takes the biscuit.

I was told by the doctor I'd flu!

Will you tell me why you think flu is less?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 11, 2021, 05:40:03 PM
I see Conor mortimer's dad passed away with COVID. Seemed to go into hospital with something else by the sound of it. Very sad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 06:10:36 PM
Grim watching the news, who'd work as a nurse or doctor in those Covid wards? Nuts
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on January 11, 2021, 06:16:11 PM
The variant that was in the UK having big a impact now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 06:29:09 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 11, 2021, 05:40:03 PM
I see Conor mortimer's dad passed away with COVID. Seemed to go into hospital with something else by the sound of it. Very sad.
Awful stuff, the poor man, resonates a lot with me due to my own father's circumstances
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on January 11, 2021, 07:04:09 PM
This Angelo fella is a complete scourge.  You are giving him oxygen.
The best way to call bullshit on this individual is not to reply, it is to stop feeding him. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on January 11, 2021, 07:13:52 PM
Last 8 days in ROI

Positive swabs 39956
Confirmed cases 50699

Nphet said over a week ago that we had a Christmas backlog of 10,000 to 11,000 to be added in and that is now officially cleared.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on January 11, 2021, 07:15:50 PM
Quote from: APM on January 11, 2021, 07:04:09 PM
This Angelo fella is a complete scourge.  You are giving him oxygen.
The best way to call bullshit on this individual is not to reply, it is to stop feeding him.
The Ignore function is there for a reason.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on January 11, 2021, 07:43:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 06:29:09 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 11, 2021, 05:40:03 PM
I see Conor mortimer's dad passed away with COVID. Seemed to go into hospital with something else by the sound of it. Very sad.
Awful stuff, the poor man, resonates a lot with me due to my own father's circumstances

Sorry to hear that Sid. It really resonates when it's so close to home. Keep safe. Very tough times , and regardless of anyone's thoughts on how best to handle this crisis, with the crazy numbers at present, and the apparent quicker spread of new variant, we should be extra cautious until vaccines and spring kicks in. Though Covid is only serious fir a small percentage of those that get it, simple maths dictates that if large numbers get it , a greater number will get unwell and need hospitalised . The fact that large numbers are getting it at the same time due to a combination of winter, Christmas and high numbers to start with, means that more health care staff get it or are isolating . To quote Michelle O'Neill we are now close to the "worst case scenario " feared. There is much debate to be had about covid and how it has been handled but now is not the time for recriminations. The focus must now be  on supporting each other, trying to keep positive but Batten down the hatches, get vaccinated and try to weather what appears to have become "the perfect storm", we all feared.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 11, 2021, 08:14:25 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on January 11, 2021, 07:43:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 06:29:09 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 11, 2021, 05:40:03 PM
I see Conor mortimer's dad passed away with COVID. Seemed to go into hospital with something else by the sound of it. Very sad.
Awful stuff, the poor man, resonates a lot with me due to my own father's circumstances

Sorry to hear that Sid. It really resonates when it's so close to home. Keep safe. Very tough times , and regardless of anyone's thoughts on how best to handle this crisis, with the crazy numbers at present, and the apparent quicker spread of new variant, we should be extra cautious until vaccines and spring kicks in. Though Covid is only serious fir a small percentage of those that get it, simple maths dictates that if large numbers get it , a greater number will get unwell and need hospitalised . The fact that large numbers are getting it at the same time due to a combination of winter, Christmas and high numbers to start with, means that more health care staff get it or are isolating . To quote Michelle O'Neill we are now close to the "worst case scenario " feared. There is much debate to be had about covid and how it has been handled but now is not the time for recriminations. The focus must now be  on supporting each other, trying to keep positive but Batten down the hatches, get vaccinated and try to weather what appears to have become "the perfect storm", we all feared.

Take care. Last person anyone should be quoting is MON
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 11, 2021, 09:09:28 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on January 11, 2021, 06:16:11 PM
The variant that was in the UK having big a impact now
Our current surge in Covid-19 cases was due to increased social mixing over the Christmas period and is not caused by a new variant from Britain, the World Health Organisation said.

Mike Ryan of WHO

Quote

"My own country in Ireland . . . has suffered one of the most acute increases in disease incidence of any country in the world,"

"And not due to the variant let me add, but due to increased social mixing and reduction of physical distancing," he said. "New variant strains . . . have not been the driver of new transmission."

"I was talking to my colleague Tony Holohan the chief medical officer in Ireland earlier and we were almost saying this is like adding a substitution in the second half of a football game," Dr Ryan said.

"It doesn't change the rules of the game, it doesn't change what you do, but it gives the virus some new energy, some new impetus. It adds to the challenge you face because the opposition is bringing some new players to the field," he said.

"It doesn't change what we need to do to win. It just changes the strength of the opponent and in that sense we have to take from that that we have to redouble our efforts."


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JimStynes on January 11, 2021, 09:15:37 PM
Quote from: APM on January 11, 2021, 07:04:09 PM
This Angelo fella is a complete scourge.  You are giving him oxygen.
The best way to call bullshit on this individual is not to reply, it is to stop feeding him.

I actually don't know how he could be bothered. Any thread I click into he's rowing with someone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 11, 2021, 09:19:36 PM
There is a suggestion that there was "pre-pandemic" levels mixing. Was there? I certainly had less mixing and a lot of people I know. There are few people actually in my workplace and as a consequence several gatherings that I wound normally have did not occur this year . Half the pubs were closed. At least some people engaged in irresponsible behaviour, but by no means everyone, I would have thought. I would have thought that the new variant or some other increase in R must have contributed to such a rapid increase.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 09:24:55 PM
Quote from: APM on January 11, 2021, 12:03:22 PM

Notwithstanding the social implications of lockdowns etc, the only people that have a right to speak authoritatively on the disease itself are experts who have years of training in relevant areas. The experts are having to prevaricate because there is so much that is unknown - at least they do that.  Lots of people who have no real understanding of medicine or epidemiology seem to be able to speak with more conviction and apparent knowledge than the experts - that's because they are good at talking and don't mind giving opinions about things that they really know nothing about.

It angers me that the likes of David Quinn and Karl Deeter are still regularly being given a platform on national media to talk about Covid - they are right-wing contrarians who know nothing about Covid

Pete Lunn was correct yesterday when he said that we need to stop listening to business lobby groups talking about Covid

Brendan O'Connor responded that we have to listen to them

Listen to them about economic compensation or things they are competent to talk about by all means, but they should have zero voice to talk about the public health situation on national media, and whether their businesses should or should not be open
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 11, 2021, 09:30:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 11, 2021, 09:19:36 PM
There is a suggestion that there was "pre-pandemic" levels mixing. Was there? I certainly had less mixing and a lot of people I know. There are few people actually in my workplace and as a consequence several gatherings that I wound normally have did not occur this year . Half the pubs were closed. At least some people engaged in irresponsible behaviour, but by no means everyone, I would have thought. I would have thought that the new variant or some other increase in R must have contributed to such a rapid increase.

Yeah did they not say that 25% of cases in the south were from the London variant?

I don't fully believe that it's just down to being irresponsible either. There must be more at play. Very few I know are doing much, if any, mingling.

Yes there are places with house parties going on but surely not that many?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 09:38:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 11, 2021, 09:19:36 PM
There is a suggestion that there was "pre-pandemic" levels mixing. Was there? I certainly had less mixing and a lot of people I know. There are few people actually in my workplace and as a consequence several gatherings that I wound normally have did not occur this year . Half the pubs were closed. At least some people engaged in irresponsible behaviour, but by no means everyone, I would have thought. I would have thought that the new variant or some other increase in R must have contributed to such a rapid increase.
I think it was somewhat of a factor but how much is questionable, it's definitely a mixture but what the exact mix is we don't know

In the Republic the prevalance of the variant has gone from circa 10% to 25% to 45%, but these are small sample sizes

The 10% figure comes from samples taken between December 23rd and 29th

The UK variant was definitely here from well back into December

My feeling from my limited amount of Christmas shopping was that mixing out and about was probably a good bit above October levels

The worry is that the UK variant still hasn't taken full hold, and thus the scope is still there for a further rise in the very near future



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 09:46:57 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 11, 2021, 09:30:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 11, 2021, 09:19:36 PM
There is a suggestion that there was "pre-pandemic" levels mixing. Was there? I certainly had less mixing and a lot of people I know. There are few people actually in my workplace and as a consequence several gatherings that I wound normally have did not occur this year . Half the pubs were closed. At least some people engaged in irresponsible behaviour, but by no means everyone, I would have thought. I would have thought that the new variant or some other increase in R must have contributed to such a rapid increase.

Yeah did they not say that 25% of cases in the south were from the London variant?

I don't fully believe that it's just down to being irresponsible either. There must be more at play. Very few I know are doing much, if any, mingling.

Yes there are places with house parties going on but surely not that many?
The area I live in has a lot of students and renters, the non-student renters are mostly from outside Ireland

It's been very quiet of late, not a peep since before Christmas, earlier in December there were a good few parties, a lot of those students would have gone home to parents for Christmas but still a good few transient renters remained in the area

I imagine students returning home for Christmas was a big spreader in rural communities
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 09:55:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 09:24:55 PM
Quote from: APM on January 11, 2021, 12:03:22 PM

Notwithstanding the social implications of lockdowns etc, the only people that have a right to speak authoritatively on the disease itself are experts who have years of training in relevant areas. The experts are having to prevaricate because there is so much that is unknown - at least they do that.  Lots of people who have no real understanding of medicine or epidemiology seem to be able to speak with more conviction and apparent knowledge than the experts - that's because they are good at talking and don't mind giving opinions about things that they really know nothing about.

It angers me that the likes of David Quinn and Karl Deeter are still regularly being given a platform on national media to talk about Covid - they are right-wing contrarians who know nothing about Covid

Pete Lunn was correct yesterday when he said that we need to stop listening to business lobby groups talking about Covid

Brendan O'Connor responded that we have to listen to them

Listen to them about economic compensation or things they are competent to talk about by all means, but they should have zero voice to talk about the public health situation on national media, and whether their businesses should or should not be open

It's funny that we know nothing of any poster on here,  but everyone will try and put on their own thoughts on the best way through this pandemic. This is a media platform so by that logic, we shouldn't take anyone's point on this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 11, 2021, 10:13:21 PM
We don't lol. The amount of "misinformation" as one poster ironically put it out there on this thing is ridiculous. It's just reflective of how people can (mis)use the internet to shape their views.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2021, 10:16:41 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 11, 2021, 10:13:21 PM
We don't lol. The amount of "misinformation" as one poster ironically put it out there on this thing is ridiculous. It's just reflective of how people can (mis)use the internet to shape their views.
;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 11, 2021, 10:49:16 PM
Los Angeles County has Had some of the strictest lockdown measures in the US all last year  they went full lockdown again on 27 November no restaurants no bars and the numbers have exploded since also with a 10-5am curfew .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 11, 2021, 10:55:15 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 11, 2021, 10:13:21 PM
We don't lol. The amount of "misinformation" as one poster ironically put it out there on this thing is ridiculous. It's just reflective of how people can (mis)use the internet to shape their views.


His tireless work and thousands of well thought out posts have won the respect of everyone and has made a lot of folks review their positions on this.

::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 11, 2021, 11:32:59 PM
Pushing people indoors cause the spread
It's winter
It was always going to happen.
Always
Flu season and the spread indoors is massive
Things will be tough on hospitals for the rest of this month
Who is to blame here???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 11, 2021, 11:40:36 PM
Answer me his

Is
KFC
McDonald's
Costa
Burger King

And so on

Are they essential?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 12, 2021, 12:08:55 AM
BBC News - Covid: Morrisons and Sainsbury's ban maskless shoppers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55618408

About time. If I owned a shop nobody without a mask would be getting in. I recall a shop owner in England having a sign outside saying something like, 'no mask no entry, if you're exempt (& therefore vulnerable) should you really be out in a shop?'
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 12, 2021, 12:10:55 AM
bennydoran are the above OutLets essential?
Why are they open
Why
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 12, 2021, 12:19:14 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 11, 2021, 11:40:36 PM
Answer me his

Is
KFC
McDonald's
Costa
Burger King

And so on

Are they essential?
No.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 12, 2021, 12:48:16 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 12, 2021, 12:19:14 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 11, 2021, 11:40:36 PM
Answer me his

Is
KFC
McDonald's
Costa
Burger King

And so on

Are they essential?
No.
they are providing take out food to essential workers possibly, do you think having them open is a potential problem?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 12, 2021, 06:43:03 AM
Why are they open?
I don't think it's a major gmac but I also don't think sports training or matches is a problem but has stopped
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 07:06:19 AM
Believe it or not but there is a very high number of people who don't cook!

They are open and very busy as people are using them.

Costa could probably close on fairness as I think they are only providing coffee.

But if you close them you'll need to close all takeaways, chippy, Indian , Chinese and so on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 12, 2021, 08:28:48 AM
I think it would be a last resort entirely closing food places down. I imagine you're classified as food or not so you couldn't close one kind of place and not another. A lot of those places are drive through(though not all). It's B&Ms, furniture shops and shops like american candy and maybe even those vape shops you would have to question.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:01:04 AM
If more people people questioned the crap food they are consuming there would be a lot less "save our NHS" rhetoric required.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 09:18:57 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:01:04 AM
If more people people questioned the crap food they are consuming there would be a lot less "save our NHS" rhetoric required.

Yes and I'm with you big man, but I'll give you one example, my daughter is back in halls, and in fairness to her she went and got a food shop before going back and the kitchen area is great and well maintained, she has cooking skills but when push comes to shove, they'll head to a garage or a food joint and get a carry out, the food shop is probably mainly breakfast stuff and snack, some pasta and canned food.

So while I agree that fast food is a drain on the NHS in the long run, there are actually families out there that fast food is easier and in some cases cheaper than cooking! No skills or laziness would be factors too.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 09:20:55 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:01:04 AM
If more people people questioned the crap food they are consuming there would be a lot less "save our NHS" rhetoric required.

Have to admit the save the NHS message is wearing thin with myself at the moment too.

But as long as we have a nuclear deterrent to keep us safe and well.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-united-kingdoms-future-nuclear-deterrent-the-2020-update-to-parliament/the-united-kingdoms-future-nuclear-deterrent-the-2020-update-to-parliament
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: blewuporstuffed on January 12, 2021, 10:06:57 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 07:06:19 AM
Believe it or not but there is a very high number of people who don't cook!

They are open and very busy as people are using them.

Costa could probably close on fairness as I think they are only providing coffee.

But if you close them you'll need to close all takeaways, chippy, Indian , Chinese and so on

What would the bould Sammy do then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:09:29 AM
How many cases are linked to takeaway food outlets? Again wouldn't really bother me if they close or not but what's the logic behind it if it's not a cause for the spread?

The biggest problem at the minute seems to be the spread in hospitals and generally if you're already in hospital you are more likely to be in an at risk category. I think serious questions need to be asked about how they are segregating Covid patients from others. The north is a small geographical area, you can travel from one end of it to the other in under two hours. Surely we could have nominated Covid specific hospitals and allow other hospitals to take on other emergency services and cancer screenings etc?

Do they currently use rapid testing for hospital admissions?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on January 12, 2021, 11:03:33 AM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.
Wise up. Where does it stop with that approach?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 12, 2021, 11:05:04 AM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Hooked a few already I see.... Maith sibh!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 11:53:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

If we tax people/companies/industries properly, and invest the money into better technology within the health service we'd be in a better place..

There is an entitlement with some people in relation to getting things for free and expecting it to be the best in the world, I just find it strange.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 12:00:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

Is an extra £1 on a pack of cigarettes or bottle of wine much of a deterrent for someone on a doctor/lecturer/property developer salary? It's not just the lower classes who drink, smoke and eat crap, or use the health service.

You're right about the last bit though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 12, 2021, 12:00:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 11:53:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

If we tax people/companies/industries properly, and invest the money into better technology within the health service we'd be in a better place..

There is an entitlement with some people in relation to getting things for free and expecting it to be the best in the world, I just find it strange.

It's not really free though...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 12:03:54 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Who says it's been proven to work?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 12:04:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 12, 2021, 12:00:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 11:53:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

If we tax people/companies/industries properly, and invest the money into better technology within the health service we'd be in a better place..

There is an entitlement with some people in relation to getting things for free and expecting it to be the best in the world, I just find it strange.

It's not really free though...

Its free if you left school and joined the dole!  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 12:08:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 12:04:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 12, 2021, 12:00:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 11:53:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

If we tax people/companies/industries properly, and invest the money into better technology within the health service we'd be in a better place..

There is an entitlement with some people in relation to getting things for free and expecting it to be the best in the world, I just find it strange.

It's not really free though...

Its free if you left school and joined the dole!  ;)

Do you think people on the dole don't pay VAT?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 12, 2021, 12:09:13 PM
Not when you're a high roller like you though ;)

I kind of agree with your point to a degree. It's two things though - a lack of funding and then where is the funding going when they get it. The people "on the ground" are doing a great job but fighting a tough battle. When you see the amount of money these Tory (insert disgusting expletive here) are giving to their crony mates on contract after contract after contract it would sicken you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 12:15:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 12:08:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 12:04:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 12, 2021, 12:00:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 11:53:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

If we tax people/companies/industries properly, and invest the money into better technology within the health service we'd be in a better place..

There is an entitlement with some people in relation to getting things for free and expecting it to be the best in the world, I just find it strange.

It's not really free though...

Its free if you left school and joined the dole!  ;)

Do you think people on the dole don't pay VAT?

Yeah, they pay it on fags and drink, and other stuff chippies  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on January 12, 2021, 12:16:11 PM
One thing the English have excelled in since time immemorial is statistics and keeping records.

The ONS have released a preliminary comprehensive stats report for deaths in 2020. They're included in this document.
https://tinyurl.com/y37h42gj

One outstanding stat is the  high nr of excess deaths recorded in England's nursing homes during the 1st wave. And after the first wave excess deaths were kept at a minimum in those homes.
2020 covid death statistics  are compared to flu/pneumonia figures,  similar figures  but
approx  85% of covid deaths were due to covid, whereas 85% of flu/pneumonia death were not due to flu/pneumonia, but where the disease was a contributing factor
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 12:22:18 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 12, 2021, 12:09:13 PM
Not when you're a high roller like you though ;)

I kind of agree with your point to a degree. It's two things though - a lack of funding and then where is the funding going when they get it. The people "on the ground" are doing a great job but fighting a tough battle. When you see the amount of money these Tory (insert disgusting expletive here) are giving to their crony mates on contract after contract after contract it would sicken you.

I think the NHS has been on its knees for decades... I don't care which government has been in place, its been going down hill a long time. with 12 million extra people on board from when it started, its not funded to cover 65 million people..

The cost from the minute someone is born through to old age is more than what's put in by the taxpayers, either tax us more to cover the short fall, or drop other high expenditure, like nukes, submarines, army and other crap that's not really needed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 12:22:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 12:15:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 12:08:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 12:04:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 12, 2021, 12:00:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 11:53:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

If we tax people/companies/industries properly, and invest the money into better technology within the health service we'd be in a better place..

There is an entitlement with some people in relation to getting things for free and expecting it to be the best in the world, I just find it strange.

It's not really free though...

Its free if you left school and joined the dole!  ;)

Do you think people on the dole don't pay VAT?

Yeah, they pay it on fags and drink, and other stuff chippies  ;)

As I said.

We should be increasing the VAT rate on those items. Where there is a will, there's a way.

Obesity is a huge problem in kids today and that mainly lies with parenting. There are ways and means to tackle this but is there sufficient appetite (excuse the pun) in government to drive this. This takes time, effort, money and other resources and you wouldn't say it would.

I also think it's a class problem, if you look at healthy options in supermarkets they are much more expensive on average than the unhealthy option. I know we've had sugar taxes and all lately but they're not enough to really be a deterrent - big interest businesses lobbying may see to that.

It all falls back on gov policy really.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 12:23:13 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 12, 2021, 12:16:11 PM
One thing the English have excelled in since time immemorial is statistics and keeping records.

The ONS have released a preliminary comprehensive stats report for deaths in 2020. They're included in this document.
https://tinyurl.com/y37h42gj

One outstanding stat is the  high nr of excess deaths recorded in England's nursing homes during the 1st wave. And after the first wave excess deaths were kept at a minimum in those homes.
2020 covid death statistics  are compared to flu/pneumonia figures,  similar figures  but
approx  85% of covid deaths were due to covid, whereas 85% of flu/pneumonia death were not due to flu/pneumonia, but where the disease was a contributing factor

Franko and Milltown will take your head off for posting that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 12:31:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 12:22:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 12:15:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 12:08:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 12:04:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 12, 2021, 12:00:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 11:53:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

If we tax people/companies/industries properly, and invest the money into better technology within the health service we'd be in a better place..

There is an entitlement with some people in relation to getting things for free and expecting it to be the best in the world, I just find it strange.

It's not really free though...

Its free if you left school and joined the dole!  ;)

Do you think people on the dole don't pay VAT?

Yeah, they pay it on fags and drink, and other stuff chippies  ;)

As I said.

We should be increasing the VAT rate on those items. Where there is a will, there's a way.

Obesity is a huge problem in kids today and that mainly lies with parenting. There are ways and means to tackle this but is there sufficient appetite (excuse the pun) in government to drive this. This takes time, effort, money and other resources and you wouldn't say it would.

I also think it's a class problem, if you look at healthy options in supermarkets they are much more expensive on average than the unhealthy option. I know we've had sugar taxes and all lately but they're not enough to really be a deterrent - big interest businesses lobbying may see to that.

It all falls back on gov policy really.

Veg, meat chicken fish, pasta, rice are all reasonable priced in all supermarkets..

Did anyone see the food hamper given to the ones in England to feed their kids for two weeks? £30 hamper, you'd have bought the stuff for £8

For the week in work it costs me a £5, In Lidil .. That's Big box of eggs, Ham, Lettuce, small brown bread loaf and tomato's, I pick that up every Monday.

That's cheap, I see plenty of working class in M&S (me)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 12:35:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 12:31:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 12:22:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 12:15:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 12:08:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 12:04:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 12, 2021, 12:00:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 11:53:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

If we tax people/companies/industries properly, and invest the money into better technology within the health service we'd be in a better place..

There is an entitlement with some people in relation to getting things for free and expecting it to be the best in the world, I just find it strange.

It's not really free though...

Its free if you left school and joined the dole!  ;)

Do you think people on the dole don't pay VAT?

Yeah, they pay it on fags and drink, and other stuff chippies  ;)

As I said.

We should be increasing the VAT rate on those items. Where there is a will, there's a way.

Obesity is a huge problem in kids today and that mainly lies with parenting. There are ways and means to tackle this but is there sufficient appetite (excuse the pun) in government to drive this. This takes time, effort, money and other resources and you wouldn't say it would.

I also think it's a class problem, if you look at healthy options in supermarkets they are much more expensive on average than the unhealthy option. I know we've had sugar taxes and all lately but they're not enough to really be a deterrent - big interest businesses lobbying may see to that.

It all falls back on gov policy really.

Veg, meat chicken fish, pasta, rice are all reasonable priced in all supermarkets..

Did anyone see the food hamper given to the ones in England to feed their kids for two weeks? £30 hamper, you'd have bought the stuff for £8

For the week in work it costs me a £5, In Lidil .. That's Big box of eggs, Ham, Lettuce, small brown bread loaf and tomato's, I pick that up every Monday.

That's cheap, I see plenty of working class in M&S (me)

What's cheaper?

A box of fish fingers or a fillet of fish? A chicken or a bag of chicken goujons?

That's the problem right there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 01:01:28 PM
So 4 chicken breasts will cost you £4 in Tesco the Birds eye frozen goujons will cost you 2.50 the frozen chips will cost you £2.50, there's a fiver

Cooking the fillets and making a curry or a pasta dish or making oven chips with real potato  will cost you the same or slightly more.

Sauce for curry/passata £1, 4 fillets £4, rice/pasta £1 that's 6 quid and you will get a couple of days out of that

Its being lazy, the cheapest shops are Lidil and Iceland, though they do way too much high calorie content food, though they have a massive range of sliming world foods well priced

Here was my dishes growing up
Monday: Stew
Tuesday: Champ
Wed: Beans and Toast
Thursday: Potato, veg roll, beef roll and turnip
Friday: could have been the chippy, if we were lucky
Saturday: another meat potato veg dish
Sunday: Sunday roast, Chicken, or Silverside, or Lamb, though I remember plenty days of having just veg soup

That's cooking for 9 in our house, wasn't too much complaining
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 12, 2021, 01:04:52 PM
100 years ago poor people were skinny, now poor people are the fattest demographic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 12, 2021, 01:25:18 PM
Lockdown my balls

Shops, factories and roads far far busier than March
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 01:31:12 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Because approvers would never have any ulterior motive? Because big pharma have never been caught giving kickbacks or inducements to people who sat on approval boards?

I have concerns over the process the virus has gone through to be approved in record time. I value my health and the data shows there is no evidence in stopping the spread and transmission of the virus with the vaccine, only that it minimises symptoms. The data also tells us people of my demograph have a very, very, very minimal chance of being hospitalised by this virus.

Do you propose the same conditions for the flu jab?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 01:31:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 12, 2021, 01:33:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 12, 2021, 01:25:18 PM
Lockdown my balls

Shops, factories and roads far far busier than March

Same in Belfast. You wouldn't think there was any lockdown at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 12, 2021, 01:37:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 01:31:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.

Yes it does. Your lack of intelligence is absolutely baffling.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 01:39:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 12, 2021, 01:37:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 01:31:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.

Yes it does. Your lack of intelligence is absolutely baffling.

Any chance of you linking a case to the takeaways yet. Coward.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 01:40:17 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 12, 2021, 01:33:00 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 12, 2021, 01:25:18 PM
Lockdown my balls

Shops, factories and roads far far busier than March

Same in Belfast. You wouldn't think there was any lockdown at all.

Plenty office workers in Belfast... it's very different to March.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 12, 2021, 01:43:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 01:39:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 12, 2021, 01:37:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 01:31:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.

Yes it does. Your lack of intelligence is absolutely baffling.

Any chance of you linking a case to the takeaways yet. Coward.

Tell you what Patriot. Go back and reread what I said. Then read it again. I'll not be engaging with you again.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 01:44:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 12, 2021, 01:37:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 01:31:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.

Yes it does. Your lack of intelligence is absolutely baffling.

If you say so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 12, 2021, 01:45:39 PM
Yeah it is completely different. In March I would have run a good few times a week and when you were out running you could see the look of fear in peoples eyes when you were anywhere near them. Nothing like that now. Car parks to the main outdoor places were shut and aren't now. Police were out checking people and aren't now. It's nothing like March at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 01:49:50 PM
Look lads. What is it you want here?

Full on, Chinese style army at the corner lockdown and shipped off to make jerseys for Nike in some hell hole in the corner of the country at best if you are caught breaking the rules?

I'm no lover of the Government, British or Irish by the way.....and definitely not Stormont for the hattrick. But is that what you all really want as a lockdown here. Everything is closed that they surely can close at this stage. It's now riding it out until such time as either the Vaccine gets the job done. The boat has long, long been missed. Some people are still talking like there is a chance to contain Covid. It's here forever.

We don't live in a dictatorship thank Christ, Governments need their people on side. Remember the old maxim, "People should not fear their Government, Governments should fear their people". Some of you actually seem to be advocating martial law and authoritarian rule. Be very careful what you wish for lads.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 01:50:33 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 12, 2021, 01:43:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 01:39:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 12, 2021, 01:37:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 01:31:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.

Yes it does. Your lack of intelligence is absolutely baffling.

Any chance of you linking a case to the takeaways yet. Coward.

Tell you what Patriot. Go back and reread what I said. Then read it again. I'll not be engaging with you again.

So that's a no then. Coward.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 12, 2021, 01:52:05 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 01:49:50 PM
Look lads. What is it you want here?

Full on, Chinese style army at the corner lockdown and shipped off to make jerseys for Nike in some hell hole in the corner of the country at best if you are caught breaking the rules?

I'm no lover of the Government, British or Irish by the way.....and definitely not Stormont for the hattrick. But is that what you all really want as a lockdown here. Everything is closed that they surely can close at this stage. It's now riding it out until such time as either the Vaccine gets the job done. The boat has long, long been missed. Some people are still talking like there is a chance to contain Covid. It's here forever.

We don't live in a dictatorship thank Christ, Governments need their people on side. Remember the old maxim, "People should not fear their Government, Governments should fear their people". Some of you actually seem to be advocating martial law and authoritarian rule. Be very careful what you wish for lads.

Either lock it down or don't. When they say they do it's half arsed. That's the point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 01:53:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 01:31:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.

It's roughly 95% effective. In anyone's language the vaccines work. Duration may not be for life like some vaccines and may be an annual vaccine similar to flu but there is no doubt it works.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 01:54:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 01:53:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 01:31:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.

It's roughly 95% effective. In anyone's language the vaccines work. Duration may not be for life like some vaccines and may be an annual vaccine similar to flu but there is no doubt it works.

We don't know that yet. It's only been rolled out a few weeks so far. We will find out in due course.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 01:57:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 01:54:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 01:53:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 01:31:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.

It's roughly 95% effective. In anyone's language the vaccines work. Duration may not be for life like some vaccines and may be an annual vaccine similar to flu but there is no doubt it works.

We don't know that yet. It's only been rolled out a few weeks so far. We will find out in due course.

No I'm happy enough with the data provided that it is indeed correct. You can decide not to accept that data. That's down to you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 01:58:04 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 01:49:50 PM
Look lads. What is it you want here?

Full on, Chinese style army at the corner lockdown and shipped off to make jerseys for Nike in some hell hole in the corner of the country at best if you are caught breaking the rules?

I'm no lover of the Government, British or Irish by the way.....and definitely not Stormont for the hattrick. But is that what you all really want as a lockdown here. Everything is closed that they surely can close at this stage. It's now riding it out until such time as either the Vaccine gets the job done. The boat has long, long been missed. Some people are still talking like there is a chance to contain Covid. It's here forever.

We don't live in a dictatorship thank Christ, Governments need their people on side. Remember the old maxim, "People should not fear their Government, Governments should fear their people". Some of you actually seem to be advocating martial law and authoritarian rule. Be very careful what you wish for lads.

The Chinese opened up quickly enough  ;)

But yes common sense would mean that if you have worked from home in the past lockdown what's stopping you now?

If you were able to be furloughed before due to unavoidable contact then why not ?

The scheme is available to March

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:15:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 01:57:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 01:54:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 01:53:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 01:31:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.

It's roughly 95% effective. In anyone's language the vaccines work. Duration may not be for life like some vaccines and may be an annual vaccine similar to flu but there is no doubt it works.

We don't know that yet. It's only been rolled out a few weeks so far. We will find out in due course.

No I'm happy enough with the data provided that it is indeed correct. You can decide not to accept that data. That's down to you.

"Provided that is indeed correct"

I don't think we can say either way at the minute.

We will have to wait and see, we know very little about these vaccines in reality.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 02:17:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 01:58:04 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 01:49:50 PM
Look lads. What is it you want here?

Full on, Chinese style army at the corner lockdown and shipped off to make jerseys for Nike in some hell hole in the corner of the country at best if you are caught breaking the rules?

I'm no lover of the Government, British or Irish by the way.....and definitely not Stormont for the hattrick. But is that what you all really want as a lockdown here. Everything is closed that they surely can close at this stage. It's now riding it out until such time as either the Vaccine gets the job done. The boat has long, long been missed. Some people are still talking like there is a chance to contain Covid. It's here forever.

We don't live in a dictatorship thank Christ, Governments need their people on side. Remember the old maxim, "People should not fear their Government, Governments should fear their people". Some of you actually seem to be advocating martial law and authoritarian rule. Be very careful what you wish for lads.

The Chinese opened up quickly enough  ;)

But yes common sense would mean that if you have worked from home in the past lockdown what's stopping you now?

If you were able to be furloughed before due to unavoidable contact then why not ?

The scheme is available to March

Now you're talking.

I've no idea about Belfast. I've been working in Office myself whole way through it so I don't know what the footfall is like there to be honest. It would appear there are more essential business now than March. But remember, back in March we were told 15k would be dead in Northern Ireland by the MOH. I think sometime after that, was when people started to lose interest, they knew it was lies (or doomsday scenario reporting at best).

We have to be realistic, Stormont is a mess. Next election they must be punished. No point even talking about them anymore we just have to finish this SF/DUP marriage forever.

The British Govt won't escape it, they'll have a public inquiry in years to come with their figures - there is no way that day won't come for some. Although much like the Iraqi war one, I'd be surprised if that wasn't an exercise in brushing under the carpet.

The Irish Govt after months of relative praise and success are going to get it. Highest rates in the world....no spin can save them there. The only problem the Irish Govt have is, SF are ready to pounce so they'll do what they can to survive from here too.

This is where we are lads - they are all fighting for their political lives from here on, so certain sectors and the likes will be allowed to continue because it's in their interests.

The lockdowns we have now, are the lockdowns we'll continue to have until the vaccine gets us out of the hole. For my money anyway.

Asking for authoritarian rule is insanity. What happens when you have a compliant population, completely under control and crushed....and it's time to let them start to enjoy freedom again?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 12, 2021, 02:20:20 PM
I wouldn't be asking for that but the lockdown that politicians and government are presenting is not the lockdown we have. That's all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 02:28:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 12, 2021, 02:20:20 PM
I wouldn't be asking for that but the lockdown that politicians and government are presenting is not the lockdown we have. That's all.

It's a tricky one for the Governments. They have to do something, of course.

But they know that this thing is wiping out the over 80s and above (majorly). They can't let that pass, I mean it's paramount to negligent manslaughter. But the general public, very soon, if not already will start to demand an end to this current state of lockdowns. I don't think we are totally there yet. But come mid Feb, when this current lockdown is extended (No doubt in my mind), that's the battle lost. 

The March lockdown was to save the NHS from collapse, it had public will behind it. The public are no longer interested. What really can the Governments do from here? They know they are responsible for the NHS being a mess, maybe not this particular government but really they know the blame, ultimately falls on them for running the Health Service on a shoestring budget (over X years). So they force it back on the people. "Save the NHS". The question most have is, why did it ever need saving?




Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:29:26 PM
What's the end game here?

What are we actually fighting against?

What's an acceptable metric here?

I just don't get some of the contradictions put forward when it comes to Covid. Why are we so blase when it comes to winter flu deaths every year but outright hysterical about Covid deaths?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on January 12, 2021, 02:35:37 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 11, 2021, 09:24:55 PM
Quote from: APM on January 11, 2021, 12:03:22 PM

Notwithstanding the social implications of lockdowns etc, the only people that have a right to speak authoritatively on the disease itself are experts who have years of training in relevant areas. The experts are having to prevaricate because there is so much that is unknown - at least they do that.  Lots of people who have no real understanding of medicine or epidemiology seem to be able to speak with more conviction and apparent knowledge than the experts - that's because they are good at talking and don't mind giving opinions about things that they really know nothing about.

It angers me that the likes of David Quinn and Karl Deeter are still regularly being given a platform on national media to talk about Covid - they are right-wing contrarians who know nothing about Covid

Pete Lunn was correct yesterday when he said that we need to stop listening to business lobby groups talking about Covid

Brendan O'Connor responded that we have to listen to them

Listen to them about economic compensation or things they are competent to talk about by all means, but they should have zero voice to talk about the public health situation on national media, and whether their businesses should or should not be open

There is no harm in business lobby groups commenting on the Covid and the public health crisis.  Businesses and entire industries are being destroyed by Covid and therefore these representatives have a responsibility to represent their members.  Where I have a problem is where these people lose the run of themselves and start to ask that their business interests are put above the broader societal interest.  However, I think you would find that in the membership of those organisations, few would want to be associated with these kinds of messages, because most business people live in the community and have decent intentions.   

The problem with some of the contributions from civic society, whether business community or members of the public is where there is a breakdown in discipline where people speak authoritatively and with absolute conviction, but where they have moved beyond their own area of expertise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:40:25 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

People of my demograph don't really require hospitalisation.

You going to refuse hospital treatment to a speeding motorist, or a lad in fist fight, a chap who broke H&S regulations on a site accident, someone who attempted suicide?

It's the type of thing a member of the Nazi party would come out with.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:42:52 PM
From the NISRA website.

Look at the note in red

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/1/1/11442c7b77ce0df7678b409093a65af9ad836028.png)

Covid deaths are classified in a arbitrary manner regardless of whether it actually played any role in the loss of life.

Just imagine we did the same with flu. Just imagine we tested 1m odd people for flu every winter and put anyone of those people who tested positive for flu and died down as a flu death.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 12, 2021, 02:51:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:15:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 01:57:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 01:54:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 01:53:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 01:31:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.

It's roughly 95% effective. In anyone's language the vaccines work. Duration may not be for life like some vaccines and may be an annual vaccine similar to flu but there is no doubt it works.

We don't know that yet. It's only been rolled out a few weeks so far. We will find out in due course.

No I'm happy enough with the data provided that it is indeed correct. You can decide not to accept that data. That's down to you.

"Provided that is indeed correct"

I don't think we can say either way at the minute.

We will have to wait and see, we know very little about these vaccines in reality.

Errr yes we can because it's been independently reviewed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:52:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:40:25 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

People of my demograph don't really require hospitalisation.

You going to refuse hospital treatment to a speeding motorist, or a lad in fist fight, a chap who broke H&S regulations on a site accident, someone who attempted suicide?

It's the type of thing a member of the Nazi party would come out with.

Considering the amount of shite you have come out with on this thread I dont think the Nazi party would considering taking you
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 02:52:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:40:25 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

People of my demograph don't really require hospitalisation.

You going to refuse hospital treatment to a speeding motorist, or a lad in fist fight, a chap who broke H&S regulations on a site accident, someone who attempted suicide?

It's the type of thing a member of the Nazi party would come out with.

I've missed that Covid part during the Nazi history class...

The end game is stopping people going to hospital with this virus.

Tell me Angelo do you think it's fake news the numbers in hospitals at the minute?

Do you think we shouldn't treat them because they're nearly dead? Would it be better to use that bed for someone in their twenties?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:53:22 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 12, 2021, 02:51:42 PM


Errr yes we can because it's been independently reviewed.

They should call you TheNaiveFella.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5922349/Scientists-approve-FDA-drugs-receiving-thousands-dollars-kick-backs-AFTER.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:55:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 02:52:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:40:25 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

People of my demograph don't really require hospitalisation.

You going to refuse hospital treatment to a speeding motorist, or a lad in fist fight, a chap who broke H&S regulations on a site accident, someone who attempted suicide?

It's the type of thing a member of the Nazi party would come out with.

I've missed that Covid part during the Nazi history class...

The end game is stopping people going to hospital with this virus.

Tell me Angelo do you think it's fake news the numbers in hospitals at the minute?

Do you think we shouldn't treat them because they're nearly dead? Would it be better to use that bed for someone in their twenties?

Put a metric on it as we are happy for people to go to hospital and lose their life from road traffic accidents, worklpace accidents, sporting accidents, drunken brawls, seasonal flu etc.

Tell me why 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 was acceptable yet Covid deaths (which have yet to hit that monthly level) aren't.

Do you have any worries on the way Covid deaths are reported?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 03:00:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:53:22 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 12, 2021, 02:51:42 PM


Errr yes we can because it's been independently reviewed.

They should call you TheNaiveFella.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5922349/Scientists-approve-FDA-drugs-receiving-thousands-dollars-kick-backs-AFTER.html

How many of those drugs from that 2018 link have been scrapped or found to be deadly.. I couldn't read it all. I'm sure it's in there some where
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 03:07:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:55:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 02:52:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:40:25 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

People of my demograph don't really require hospitalisation.

You going to refuse hospital treatment to a speeding motorist, or a lad in fist fight, a chap who broke H&S regulations on a site accident, someone who attempted suicide?

It's the type of thing a member of the Nazi party would come out with.

I've missed that Covid part during the Nazi history class...

The end game is stopping people going to hospital with this virus.

Tell me Angelo do you think it's fake news the numbers in hospitals at the minute?

Do you think we shouldn't treat them because they're nearly dead? Would it be better to use that bed for someone in their twenties?

Put a metric on it as we are happy for people to go to hospital and lose their life from road traffic accidents, worklpace accidents, sporting accidents, drunken brawls, seasonal flu etc.

Tell me why 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 was acceptable yet Covid deaths (which have yet to hit that monthly level) aren't.

Do you have any worries on the way Covid deaths are reported?

I've asked you a question please answer it...

I've no issues with Covid deaths being recorded, they'll be attributed towards a death and not the sole cause of death, unless you can get me an actual death certificate with that information.

No death in any year is acceptable, especially to those who have lost people through flu's cancers and any other deaths that year, I believe death has never 'been acceptable' only a point scoring idiot would use such a thing.

The metric for going to hospital is simple (even for you) if you're ill and unable to look after yourself or self medicate then hospital is the only place for you. They are stretched at the minute cause we've people not listening to medical advise.

Those beds are filling up because people are ill! Or do you think they are just making it up?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 12, 2021, 03:09:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 12:23:13 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 12, 2021, 12:16:11 PM
One thing the English have excelled in since time immemorial is statistics and keeping records.

The ONS have released a preliminary comprehensive stats report for deaths in 2020. They're included in this document.
https://tinyurl.com/y37h42gj

One outstanding stat is the  high nr of excess deaths recorded in England's nursing homes during the 1st wave. And after the first wave excess deaths were kept at a minimum in those homes.
2020 covid death statistics  are compared to flu/pneumonia figures,  similar figures  but
approx  85% of covid deaths were due to covid, whereas 85% of flu/pneumonia death were not due to flu/pneumonia, but where the disease was a contributing factor

Franko and Milltown will take your head off for posting that.

Nah not really.

Why would I?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 03:13:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 03:07:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:55:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 02:52:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:40:25 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

People of my demograph don't really require hospitalisation.

You going to refuse hospital treatment to a speeding motorist, or a lad in fist fight, a chap who broke H&S regulations on a site accident, someone who attempted suicide?

It's the type of thing a member of the Nazi party would come out with.

I've missed that Covid part during the Nazi history class...

The end game is stopping people going to hospital with this virus.

Tell me Angelo do you think it's fake news the numbers in hospitals at the minute?

Do you think we shouldn't treat them because they're nearly dead? Would it be better to use that bed for someone in their twenties?

Put a metric on it as we are happy for people to go to hospital and lose their life from road traffic accidents, worklpace accidents, sporting accidents, drunken brawls, seasonal flu etc.

Tell me why 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 was acceptable yet Covid deaths (which have yet to hit that monthly level) aren't.

Do you have any worries on the way Covid deaths are reported?

I've asked you a question please answer it...

I've no issues with Covid deaths being recorded, they'll be attributed towards a death and not the sole cause of death, unless you can get me an actual death certificate with that information.

No death in any year is acceptable, especially to those who have lost people through flu's cancers and any other deaths that year, I believe death has never 'been acceptable' only a point scoring idiot would use such a thing.

The metric for going to hospital is simple (even for you) if you're ill and unable to look after yourself or self medicate then hospital is the only place for you. They are stretched at the minute cause we've people not listening to medical advise.

Those beds are filling up because people are ill! Or do you think they are just making it up?

More completely false information there. From the NISRA website where they publish figures on Covid deaths.

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

We don't have information which clarifies why people are being admitted to hospital. It seems apparent that the virus seems to be spreading in the hospital setting however and that many people admitted that are down as Covid admissions were not admitted for Covid at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 03:17:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 03:13:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 03:07:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:55:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 02:52:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:40:25 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

People of my demograph don't really require hospitalisation.

You going to refuse hospital treatment to a speeding motorist, or a lad in fist fight, a chap who broke H&S regulations on a site accident, someone who attempted suicide?

It's the type of thing a member of the Nazi party would come out with.

I've missed that Covid part during the Nazi history class...

The end game is stopping people going to hospital with this virus.

Tell me Angelo do you think it's fake news the numbers in hospitals at the minute?

Do you think we shouldn't treat them because they're nearly dead? Would it be better to use that bed for someone in their twenties?

Put a metric on it as we are happy for people to go to hospital and lose their life from road traffic accidents, worklpace accidents, sporting accidents, drunken brawls, seasonal flu etc.

Tell me why 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 was acceptable yet Covid deaths (which have yet to hit that monthly level) aren't.

Do you have any worries on the way Covid deaths are reported?

I've asked you a question please answer it...

I've no issues with Covid deaths being recorded, they'll be attributed towards a death and not the sole cause of death, unless you can get me an actual death certificate with that information.

No death in any year is acceptable, especially to those who have lost people through flu's cancers and any other deaths that year, I believe death has never 'been acceptable' only a point scoring idiot would use such a thing.

The metric for going to hospital is simple (even for you) if you're ill and unable to look after yourself or self medicate then hospital is the only place for you. They are stretched at the minute cause we've people not listening to medical advise.

Those beds are filling up because people are ill! Or do you think they are just making it up?

More completely false information there. From the NISRA website where they publish figures on Covid deaths.

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

We don't have information which clarifies why people are being admitted to hospital. It seems apparent that the virus seems to be spreading in the hospital setting however and that many people admitted that are down as Covid admissions were not admitted for Covid at all.

I asked you to put up a link or show me a death cert..

You've also, on a few occasions now avoided my question.

Have a bit of common courtesy and answer mine, Just cause you think my answer doesn't suit you, I answered it truthfully all the same
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 03:21:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 03:17:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 03:13:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 03:07:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:55:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 02:52:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:40:25 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

People of my demograph don't really require hospitalisation.

You going to refuse hospital treatment to a speeding motorist, or a lad in fist fight, a chap who broke H&S regulations on a site accident, someone who attempted suicide?

It's the type of thing a member of the Nazi party would come out with.

I've missed that Covid part during the Nazi history class...

The end game is stopping people going to hospital with this virus.

Tell me Angelo do you think it's fake news the numbers in hospitals at the minute?

Do you think we shouldn't treat them because they're nearly dead? Would it be better to use that bed for someone in their twenties?

Put a metric on it as we are happy for people to go to hospital and lose their life from road traffic accidents, worklpace accidents, sporting accidents, drunken brawls, seasonal flu etc.

Tell me why 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 was acceptable yet Covid deaths (which have yet to hit that monthly level) aren't.

Do you have any worries on the way Covid deaths are reported?

I've asked you a question please answer it...

I've no issues with Covid deaths being recorded, they'll be attributed towards a death and not the sole cause of death, unless you can get me an actual death certificate with that information.

No death in any year is acceptable, especially to those who have lost people through flu's cancers and any other deaths that year, I believe death has never 'been acceptable' only a point scoring idiot would use such a thing.

The metric for going to hospital is simple (even for you) if you're ill and unable to look after yourself or self medicate then hospital is the only place for you. They are stretched at the minute cause we've people not listening to medical advise.

Those beds are filling up because people are ill! Or do you think they are just making it up?

More completely false information there. From the NISRA website where they publish figures on Covid deaths.

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

We don't have information which clarifies why people are being admitted to hospital. It seems apparent that the virus seems to be spreading in the hospital setting however and that many people admitted that are down as Covid admissions were not admitted for Covid at all.

I asked you to put up a link or show me a death cert..

You've also, on a few occasions now avoided my question.

Have a bit of common courtesy and answer mine, Just cause you think my answer doesn't suit you, I answered it truthfully all the same

I've provided you a link from the NISRA website, the body who publish and record these figures and you're disputing that?

Do you think I'm a coroner?

I'll repeat for you again:

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 03:40:47 PM
So you haven't evidence on death certs? Anyone that's died of a road crash or cancer died of those traumas, Covid may be in the death cert also, but that's not the reason they died.

So can you answer mine, I've answered your question even though I asked first, and I'm answering it again, you've avoided my questions again after me asking you?

You've haven't answered it anywhere.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 03:47:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 03:40:47 PM
So you haven't evidence on death certs? Anyone that's died of a road crash or cancer died of those traumas, Covid may be in the death cert also, but that's not the reason they died.

So can you answer mine, I've answered your question even though I asked first, and I'm answering it again, you've avoided my questions again after me asking you?

You've haven't answered it anywhere.

I have provided NISRA's clarification which you seem to have completely disregarded. Have you death certs yourself? Seems utterly bizarre you're expecting me to post up death certs. I'll repeat, do you think I'm a coroner? And why are you continuing to disregard NISRA's own clarification.

I've already answered your question here:

We don't have information which clarifies why people are being admitted to hospital. It seems apparent that the virus seems to be spreading in the hospital setting however and that many people admitted that are down as Covid admissions were not admitted for Covid at all.


We have inadequate information on what people are being admitted to hospital for. We do know that hospitals have been a problem in transmission, we do not know what % of people in those in hospital with Covid were admitted for that reason.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:15:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 01:57:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 01:54:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 01:53:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 01:31:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.

It's roughly 95% effective. In anyone's language the vaccines work. Duration may not be for life like some vaccines and may be an annual vaccine similar to flu but there is no doubt it works.

We don't know that yet. It's only been rolled out a few weeks so far. We will find out in due course.

No I'm happy enough with the data provided that it is indeed correct. You can decide not to accept that data. That's down to you.
"
"Provided that is indeed correct"

I don't think we can say either way at the minute.

We will have to wait and see, we know very little about these vaccines in reality.

Sorry bad punctuation. (Ironic given my signature)

"I'm happy enough with the data provided, that it is indeed correct.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 03:55:50 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:15:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 01:57:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 01:54:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 01:53:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 01:31:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.

It's roughly 95% effective. In anyone's language the vaccines work. Duration may not be for life like some vaccines and may be an annual vaccine similar to flu but there is no doubt it works.

We don't know that yet. It's only been rolled out a few weeks so far. We will find out in due course.

No I'm happy enough with the data provided that it is indeed correct. You can decide not to accept that data. That's down to you.
"
"Provided that is indeed correct"

I don't think we can say either way at the minute.

We will have to wait and see, we know very little about these vaccines in reality.

Sorry bad punctuation. (Ironic given my signature)

"I'm happy enough with the data provided, that it is indeed correct.

We'll see. I take a cynical outlook when it comes to big pharma, their culture and precedence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 03:56:47 PM
I know you do. I think I remember you mentioning it once.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 03:59:43 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 03:56:47 PM
I know you do. I think I remember you mentioning it once.

;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on January 12, 2021, 04:03:49 PM
Case numbers levelling off or lowering in the north and positivity rate in the south down to 13.82% today.  Appear to have turned a corner in terms of numbers at least.

The worst is still to come in hospital admissions though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 04:04:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 03:17:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 03:13:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 03:07:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:55:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 02:52:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:40:25 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

People of my demograph don't really require hospitalisation.

You going to refuse hospital treatment to a speeding motorist, or a lad in fist fight, a chap who broke H&S regulations on a site accident, someone who attempted suicide?

It's the type of thing a member of the Nazi party would come out with.

I've missed that Covid part during the Nazi history class...

The end game is stopping people going to hospital with this virus.

Tell me Angelo do you think it's fake news the numbers in hospitals at the minute?

Do you think we shouldn't treat them because they're nearly dead? Would it be better to use that bed for someone in their twenties?

Put a metric on it as we are happy for people to go to hospital and lose their life from road traffic accidents, worklpace accidents, sporting accidents, drunken brawls, seasonal flu etc.

Tell me why 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 was acceptable yet Covid deaths (which have yet to hit that monthly level) aren't.

Do you have any worries on the way Covid deaths are reported?

I've asked you a question please answer it...

I've no issues with Covid deaths being recorded, they'll be attributed towards a death and not the sole cause of death, unless you can get me an actual death certificate with that information.

No death in any year is acceptable, especially to those who have lost people through flu's cancers and any other deaths that year, I believe death has never 'been acceptable' only a point scoring idiot would use such a thing.

The metric for going to hospital is simple (even for you) if you're ill and unable to look after yourself or self medicate then hospital is the only place for you. They are stretched at the minute cause we've people not listening to medical advise.

Those beds are filling up because people are ill! Or do you think they are just making it up?

More completely false information there. From the NISRA website where they publish figures on Covid deaths.

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

We don't have information which clarifies why people are being admitted to hospital. It seems apparent that the virus seems to be spreading in the hospital setting however and that many people admitted that are down as Covid admissions were not admitted for Covid at all.

I asked you to put up a link or show me a death cert..

You've also, on a few occasions now avoided my question.

Have a bit of common courtesy and answer mine, Just cause you think my answer doesn't suit you, I answered it truthfully all the same

Above in bold is a question you have avoided... Please answer it.. That's the third or fourth time now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 04:05:39 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

What about the oath doctors take? Are they going wheel them in on a trolley, then wheel them out again when they find out they haven't had the vaccine? And leave them  outside gasping for breath?

They might not have been able to take the vaccine due to other medical issues.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 04:08:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 04:05:39 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

What about the oath doctors take? Are they going wheel them in on a trolley, then wheel them out again when they find out they haven't had the vaccine? And leave them  outside gasping for breath?

They might not have been able to take the vaccine due to other medical issues.

Have security guards at the door.

No vaccine passport - no admission. Same as the bouncers in clubs years ago.

Means doctors dont have to worry about that end of things and their oath isnt impinged/compromised.


What medical issues stop people taking the vaccine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 12, 2021, 04:10:47 PM
If they read GAAboard they wouldn't let Angelo leave his cave in Tyrone in the first instance.
I'd say they'd give priority to the cancer, stroke, heart attack, traffic accident cases etc over fcktards who refused the vaccine because it wasn't 10 years being developed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 04:11:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 03:55:50 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:15:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 01:57:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 01:54:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 01:53:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 01:31:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 10:51:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 12, 2021, 10:12:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2021, 09:44:46 AM
I get that MR but at the same time it's too important to leave it at that imho. I am not qualified to get in to it here but Google a few podcasts on metabolic health. Some of it can be heavy on the science and you might not agree with all of it. All the same there are common threads running through most of the discussion that I think can help us all.

I don't think there is any doubt collective personal health is to the benefit of the NHS longterm. A better diet by the population would be an incredible legacy however realistically, we are more likely to be on the rip all summer here (Which, considering....I don't blame anyone either).

Most people ignore how much obesity, smoking etc cost the NHS in finances because it's kinda been accepted I suppose, life being life nobody really cared. I really hope Covid however has helped some embrace a healthier way of living, the best way to boost your immunity is by being active, I don't think that can be in doubt.

Covid came along and put the Cat among the Pigeons though.

There's one way to tackle health issues related to alcohol, smoking and obesity - tax the f**k out of it.

If there is a will there is a way but that applies to everything.

We could have an efficient, properly functioning health service that looks after its citizens but the pockets of too many wealthy private interests have to get lined with millions.

And those lovely big pharma companies that some people on here are willing to swallow whatever they say have been proven in the past of fixing prices on drugs at extortionate rates and pricing people out of life saving treatment.

i would go further Angelo.....

If someone breaks lockdown and catches Covid I would refuse them admittance to hospital or at the very least charge them a f**king fortune.

And even better - if people refuse to take a vaccine (that has been proven to work) I would also refuse them entry to hospital should they need it (from Covid)
or charge them 1000's if they want treatment.

Really?

You'd charge someone £000s for not taking a vaccine we know very little about and its impacts? That's just pure unadulterated fascism right there. You want to charge people even more to use a dysfunctional health system that lines the pockets of big pharma companies who fix prices on life saving drugs at extortionate prices. Corporate companies who are happy to deny medical care to sick people in order to line their pockets with the money of hard working people?

That's some toxic outlook you have.

The vaccine has been approved - I would be quite sure you have already had a vaccine from the same approvers.

So if you dont get the vaccine and you get Covid then why should you cost the country money when you have refused to take the medically approved vaccine?

You are happy enough to let the health professionals look after you if you get ill but not happy to take a vaccine which the health professionals have recommended you get.

Right so

Just because it's been approved, doesn't mean it works.

It's roughly 95% effective. In anyone's language the vaccines work. Duration may not be for life like some vaccines and may be an annual vaccine similar to flu but there is no doubt it works.

We don't know that yet. It's only been rolled out a few weeks so far. We will find out in due course.

No I'm happy enough with the data provided that it is indeed correct. You can decide not to accept that data. That's down to you.
"
"Provided that is indeed correct"

I don't think we can say either way at the minute.

We will have to wait and see, we know very little about these vaccines in reality.

Sorry bad punctuation. (Ironic given my signature)

"I'm happy enough with the data provided, that it is indeed correct.

We'll see. I take a cynical outlook when it comes to big pharma, their culture and precedence.

+1
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 04:12:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 04:04:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 03:17:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 03:13:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 03:07:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:55:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 02:52:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:40:25 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

People of my demograph don't really require hospitalisation.

You going to refuse hospital treatment to a speeding motorist, or a lad in fist fight, a chap who broke H&S regulations on a site accident, someone who attempted suicide?

It's the type of thing a member of the Nazi party would come out with.

I've missed that Covid part during the Nazi history class...

The end game is stopping people going to hospital with this virus.

Tell me Angelo do you think it's fake news the numbers in hospitals at the minute?

Do you think we shouldn't treat them because they're nearly dead? Would it be better to use that bed for someone in their twenties?

Put a metric on it as we are happy for people to go to hospital and lose their life from road traffic accidents, worklpace accidents, sporting accidents, drunken brawls, seasonal flu etc.

Tell me why 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 was acceptable yet Covid deaths (which have yet to hit that monthly level) aren't.

Do you have any worries on the way Covid deaths are reported?

I've asked you a question please answer it...

I've no issues with Covid deaths being recorded, they'll be attributed towards a death and not the sole cause of death, unless you can get me an actual death certificate with that information.

No death in any year is acceptable, especially to those who have lost people through flu's cancers and any other deaths that year, I believe death has never 'been acceptable' only a point scoring idiot would use such a thing.

The metric for going to hospital is simple (even for you) if you're ill and unable to look after yourself or self medicate then hospital is the only place for you. They are stretched at the minute cause we've people not listening to medical advise.

Those beds are filling up because people are ill! Or do you think they are just making it up?

More completely false information there. From the NISRA website where they publish figures on Covid deaths.

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

We don't have information which clarifies why people are being admitted to hospital. It seems apparent that the virus seems to be spreading in the hospital setting however and that many people admitted that are down as Covid admissions were not admitted for Covid at all.

I asked you to put up a link or show me a death cert..

You've also, on a few occasions now avoided my question.

Have a bit of common courtesy and answer mine, Just cause you think my answer doesn't suit you, I answered it truthfully all the same

Above in bold is a question you have avoided... Please answer it.. That's the third or fourth time now

That's the decisions medical practitioners will have to make.

But I think if it's a choice that had to be made in the matter you'd try and save the person in their 20s as they have their whole life to live would you not agree?

Would you rather lose your 20 year old son/daughter or your 80 year old parent/grandparent? You're the one insisting on me answering that question so how about you give it a go yourself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 04:13:45 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 12, 2021, 04:10:47 PM
If they read GAAboard they wouldn't let Angelo leave his cave in Tyrone in the first instance.
I'd say they'd give priority to the cancer, stroke, heart attack, traffic accident cases etc over fcktards who refused the vaccine because it wasn't 10 years being developed.

They will give priority to the person with the greater medical need as is their job.

Quite a dangerous rhetoric you're spouting there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 12, 2021, 04:19:01 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 04:08:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 04:05:39 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

What about the oath doctors take? Are they going wheel them in on a trolley, then wheel them out again when they find out they haven't had the vaccine? And leave them  outside gasping for breath?

They might not have been able to take the vaccine due to other medical issues.

Have security guards at the door.

No vaccine passport - no admission. Same as the bouncers in clubs years ago.

Means doctors dont have to worry about that end of things and their oath isnt impinged/compromised.


What medical issues stop people taking the vaccine?

Certain groups can't get vaccinated. In the case of Covid, pregnant women for example. But Vaccines help to protect those who can't protect themselves through herd immunity. If enough people get vaccinated then it reduces the likelihood of an outbreak and of it spreading to vulnerable people.  The disease doesn't get established. It's how we protect children from MMR and other diseases because they're not old enough to get vaccinated. So the vaccine isn't all about protecting you. It's also about protecting those who are the most vulnerable in society.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 04:21:06 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 04:08:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 04:05:39 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

What about the oath doctors take? Are they going wheel them in on a trolley, then wheel them out again when they find out they haven't had the vaccine? And leave them  outside gasping for breath?

They might not have been able to take the vaccine due to other medical issues.

Have security guards at the door.

No vaccine passport - no admission. Same as the bouncers in clubs years ago.

Means doctors dont have to worry about that end of things and their oath isnt impinged/compromised.


What medical issues stop people taking the vaccine?

That's where it's all heading!

PS. You can't get vaccine if pregnant, have certain allergies or recovering from the virus. Probably more.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 04:25:59 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 12, 2021, 04:19:01 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 04:08:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 04:05:39 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

What about the oath doctors take? Are they going wheel them in on a trolley, then wheel them out again when they find out they haven't had the vaccine? And leave them  outside gasping for breath?

They might not have been able to take the vaccine due to other medical issues.

Have security guards at the door.

No vaccine passport - no admission. Same as the bouncers in clubs years ago.

Means doctors dont have to worry about that end of things and their oath isnt impinged/compromised.


What medical issues stop people taking the vaccine?

Certain groups can't get vaccinated. In the case of Covid, pregnant women for example. But Vaccines help to protect those who can't protect themselves through herd immunity. If enough people get vaccinated then it reduces the likelihood of an outbreak and of it spreading to vulnerable people.  The disease doesn't get established. It's how we protect children from MMR and other diseases because they're not old enough to get vaccinated. So the vaccine isn't all about protecting you. It's also about protecting those who are the most vulnerable in society.

Yet no evidence to suggest that vaccines stop contraction or transmission of the virus, the only evidence of their benefit is that they minimise symptoms from Covid.

More misinformation from you, becoming a habit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 04:44:58 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 04:21:06 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 04:08:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 04:05:39 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

What about the oath doctors take? Are they going wheel them in on a trolley, then wheel them out again when they find out they haven't had the vaccine? And leave them  outside gasping for breath?

They might not have been able to take the vaccine due to other medical issues.

Have security guards at the door.

No vaccine passport - no admission. Same as the bouncers in clubs years ago.

Means doctors dont have to worry about that end of things and their oath isnt impinged/compromised.


What medical issues stop people taking the vaccine?

That's where it's all heading!

PS. You can't get vaccine if pregnant, have certain allergies or recovering from the virus. Probably more.

Fair point - if you cannot get the vaccine because of pregnancy etc then we will let them into the hospitals.

Def not letting the ones in that refuse the vaccine.

Simple.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 04:51:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 04:12:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 04:04:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 03:17:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 03:13:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 03:07:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:55:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 02:52:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:40:25 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

People of my demograph don't really require hospitalisation.

You going to refuse hospital treatment to a speeding motorist, or a lad in fist fight, a chap who broke H&S regulations on a site accident, someone who attempted suicide?

It's the type of thing a member of the Nazi party would come out with.

I've missed that Covid part during the Nazi history class...

The end game is stopping people going to hospital with this virus.

Tell me Angelo do you think it's fake news the numbers in hospitals at the minute?

Do you think we shouldn't treat them because they're nearly dead? Would it be better to use that bed for someone in their twenties?

Put a metric on it as we are happy for people to go to hospital and lose their life from road traffic accidents, worklpace accidents, sporting accidents, drunken brawls, seasonal flu etc.

Tell me why 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 was acceptable yet Covid deaths (which have yet to hit that monthly level) aren't.

Do you have any worries on the way Covid deaths are reported?

I've asked you a question please answer it...

I've no issues with Covid deaths being recorded, they'll be attributed towards a death and not the sole cause of death, unless you can get me an actual death certificate with that information.

No death in any year is acceptable, especially to those who have lost people through flu's cancers and any other deaths that year, I believe death has never 'been acceptable' only a point scoring idiot would use such a thing.

The metric for going to hospital is simple (even for you) if you're ill and unable to look after yourself or self medicate then hospital is the only place for you. They are stretched at the minute cause we've people not listening to medical advise.

Those beds are filling up because people are ill! Or do you think they are just making it up?

More completely false information there. From the NISRA website where they publish figures on Covid deaths.

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

We don't have information which clarifies why people are being admitted to hospital. It seems apparent that the virus seems to be spreading in the hospital setting however and that many people admitted that are down as Covid admissions were not admitted for Covid at all.

I asked you to put up a link or show me a death cert..

You've also, on a few occasions now avoided my question.

Have a bit of common courtesy and answer mine, Just cause you think my answer doesn't suit you, I answered it truthfully all the same

Above in bold is a question you have avoided... Please answer it.. That's the third or fourth time now

That's the decisions medical practitioners will have to make.

But I think if it's a choice that had to be made in the matter you'd try and save the person in their 20s as they have their whole life to live would you not agree?

Would you rather lose your 20 year old son/daughter or your 80 year old parent/grandparent? You're the one insisting on me answering that question so how about you give it a go yourself.

You haven't answered my question, f**k you're hard work, ok I'll ask again, do you think the numbers in the hospital are made up? do you think those that are in hospital need medical attention or not..


To answer your hypothetical question I think anyone in hospital should receive medical assistance if they require it whether they are 90 or 10, there is no rather about it, I'm not in the position to make that choice, god help the ones who do. And I'd pay for help privately for both, if that answers your question

So looking at your question can I assume that you'd rather the old die, 70+ and get them off the beds (very tory and Hitler like, kill the weak) 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 12, 2021, 04:58:35 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 04:21:06 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 04:08:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 04:05:39 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

What about the oath doctors take? Are they going wheel them in on a trolley, then wheel them out again when they find out they haven't had the vaccine? And leave them  outside gasping for breath?

They might not have been able to take the vaccine due to other medical issues.

Have security guards at the door.

No vaccine passport - no admission. Same as the bouncers in clubs years ago.

Means doctors dont have to worry about that end of things and their oath isnt impinged/compromised.


What medical issues stop people taking the vaccine?

That's where it's all heading!

PS. You can't get vaccine if pregnant, have certain allergies or recovering from the virus. Probably more.

Pretty much the same as a vast majority of medicines/vaccines, especially the allergies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 12, 2021, 05:10:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:53:22 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 12, 2021, 02:51:42 PM


Errr yes we can because it's been independently reviewed.

They should call you TheNaiveFella.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5922349/Scientists-approve-FDA-drugs-receiving-thousands-dollars-kick-backs-AFTER.html

This sh1te again  :D

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 12, 2021, 05:14:42 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 12, 2021, 05:10:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:53:22 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 12, 2021, 02:51:42 PM


Errr yes we can because it's been independently reviewed.

They should call you TheNaiveFella.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5922349/Scientists-approve-FDA-drugs-receiving-thousands-dollars-kick-backs-AFTER.html

This sh1te again  :D

I had to add him to the ignore list. f**k I dunno were he gets the energy from. The man is not near wise...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 05:24:52 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 04:44:58 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 04:21:06 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 04:08:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 12, 2021, 04:05:39 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

What about the oath doctors take? Are they going wheel them in on a trolley, then wheel them out again when they find out they haven't had the vaccine? And leave them  outside gasping for breath?

They might not have been able to take the vaccine due to other medical issues.

Have security guards at the door.

No vaccine passport - no admission. Same as the bouncers in clubs years ago.

Means doctors dont have to worry about that end of things and their oath isnt impinged/compromised.


What medical issues stop people taking the vaccine?

That's where it's all heading!

PS. You can't get vaccine if pregnant, have certain allergies or recovering from the virus. Probably more.

Fair point - if you cannot get the vaccine because of pregnancy etc then we will let them into the hospitals.

Def not letting the ones in that refuse the vaccine.

Simple.

Pregnant women or those with allergies can still spread the virus, so why not lock them out too? Sure women can give birth in the car park!

And if the vaccine is proven not to work effectively? Then what? Do we still refuse medical treatment to the non-vaccinated?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 12, 2021, 05:45:28 PM
The lockdown seems to be working again, the seven day average is well down. Once again shows that lockdowns do work and they're the only answer until the vaccine gets out to enough people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 05:52:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 04:51:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 04:12:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 04:04:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 03:17:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 03:13:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 03:07:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:55:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 02:52:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:40:25 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 12, 2021, 02:32:25 PM
I dont give a f**k - if Angelo and the lads refuse to take the vaccine and catch the virus then the medical professionals who authorised the vaccine should be refusing those type of people entry to hospital.

I mean - what else can we do?

People of my demograph don't really require hospitalisation.

You going to refuse hospital treatment to a speeding motorist, or a lad in fist fight, a chap who broke H&S regulations on a site accident, someone who attempted suicide?

It's the type of thing a member of the Nazi party would come out with.

I've missed that Covid part during the Nazi history class...

The end game is stopping people going to hospital with this virus.

Tell me Angelo do you think it's fake news the numbers in hospitals at the minute?

Do you think we shouldn't treat them because they're nearly dead? Would it be better to use that bed for someone in their twenties?

Put a metric on it as we are happy for people to go to hospital and lose their life from road traffic accidents, worklpace accidents, sporting accidents, drunken brawls, seasonal flu etc.

Tell me why 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 was acceptable yet Covid deaths (which have yet to hit that monthly level) aren't.

Do you have any worries on the way Covid deaths are reported?

I've asked you a question please answer it...

I've no issues with Covid deaths being recorded, they'll be attributed towards a death and not the sole cause of death, unless you can get me an actual death certificate with that information.

No death in any year is acceptable, especially to those who have lost people through flu's cancers and any other deaths that year, I believe death has never 'been acceptable' only a point scoring idiot would use such a thing.

The metric for going to hospital is simple (even for you) if you're ill and unable to look after yourself or self medicate then hospital is the only place for you. They are stretched at the minute cause we've people not listening to medical advise.

Those beds are filling up because people are ill! Or do you think they are just making it up?

More completely false information there. From the NISRA website where they publish figures on Covid deaths.

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

We don't have information which clarifies why people are being admitted to hospital. It seems apparent that the virus seems to be spreading in the hospital setting however and that many people admitted that are down as Covid admissions were not admitted for Covid at all.

I asked you to put up a link or show me a death cert..

You've also, on a few occasions now avoided my question.

Have a bit of common courtesy and answer mine, Just cause you think my answer doesn't suit you, I answered it truthfully all the same

Above in bold is a question you have avoided... Please answer it.. That's the third or fourth time now

That's the decisions medical practitioners will have to make.

But I think if it's a choice that had to be made in the matter you'd try and save the person in their 20s as they have their whole life to live would you not agree?

Would you rather lose your 20 year old son/daughter or your 80 year old parent/grandparent? You're the one insisting on me answering that question so how about you give it a go yourself.

You haven't answered my question, f**k you're hard work, ok I'll ask again, do you think the numbers in the hospital are made up? do you think those that are in hospital need medical attention or not..


To answer your hypothetical question I think anyone in hospital should receive medical assistance if they require it whether they are 90 or 10, there is no rather about it, I'm not in the position to make that choice, god help the ones who do. And I'd pay for help privately for both, if that answers your question

So looking at your question can I assume that you'd rather the old die, 70+ and get them off the beds (very tory and Hitler like, kill the weak)

Did answer the question. We do not have clarity on those figures. We do know hospitals are a major part of the transmission and people who were admitted for other reasons than Covid are again included in the Covid numbers. This is me answering your question now for the third time.

I'd rather nobody dies but you put a question my way and I think a life not lived is more important to save than a love lived. Presumably you'd rather the 20 year old die given you disagree with me?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 05:54:32 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 12, 2021, 05:10:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:53:22 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 12, 2021, 02:51:42 PM


Errr yes we can because it's been independently reviewed.

They should call you TheNaiveFella.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5922349/Scientists-approve-FDA-drugs-receiving-thousands-dollars-kick-backs-AFTER.html

This sh1te again  :D

Shite?

You saying that those findings weren't true. For the record you are denying big pharma have engaged in a culture of kickbacks and inducements to medical professionals and regulatory bodies to approve/promote their drugs when they know there are issues there? Are you denying that?

Yes or no?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on January 12, 2021, 05:59:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 05:54:32 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 12, 2021, 05:10:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:53:22 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 12, 2021, 02:51:42 PM


Errr yes we can because it's been independently reviewed.

They should call you TheNaiveFella.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5922349/Scientists-approve-FDA-drugs-receiving-thousands-dollars-kick-backs-AFTER.html

This sh1te again  :D

Shite?

You saying that those findings weren't true. For the record you are denying big pharma have engaged in a culture of kickbacks and inducements to medical professionals and regulatory bodies to approve/promote their drugs when they know there are issues there? Are you denying that?

Yes or no?

The Daily Mail!
Suddenly all your posts make sense Angelo.
;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 06:00:16 PM
Tell me Angelo, do you think it's fake news,  the numbers in hospitals at the minute I mean?

It's a yes or no question, nothing else

In your own time. As you haven't answered It, just added some waffle

I've already answered yours, all Lives count. Anyone in my family that needs medical right away and Nhs can't provide that service, I'll pay for it.

So someone at 70+ is as important as a 20 year old in my view.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 06:06:21 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 12, 2021, 05:59:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 05:54:32 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 12, 2021, 05:10:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 02:53:22 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 12, 2021, 02:51:42 PM


Errr yes we can because it's been independently reviewed.

They should call you TheNaiveFella.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5922349/Scientists-approve-FDA-drugs-receiving-thousands-dollars-kick-backs-AFTER.html

This sh1te again  :D

Shite?

You saying that those findings weren't true. For the record you are denying big pharma have engaged in a culture of kickbacks and inducements to medical professionals and regulatory bodies to approve/promote their drugs when they know there are issues there? Are you denying that?

Yes or no?

The Daily Mail!
Suddenly all your posts make sense Angelo.
;D ;D ;D

Are you going to argue about what's in the article or do you support big pharma bribing regulatory approvers?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 06:09:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 06:00:16 PM
Tell me Angelo, do you think it's fake news,  the numbers in hospitals at the minute I mean?

It's a yes or no question, nothing else

In your own time. As you haven't answered It, just added some waffle

I've already answered yours, all Lives count. Anyone in my family that needs medical right away and Nhs can't provide that service, I'll pay for it.

So someone at 70+ is as important as a 20 year old in my view.

I think the numbers need clarity and context. I think they are deliberately misleading and should be clarified by:

A) How many people were admitted to hospital for Covid related reasons
B) How many cases were admitted to hospital for non-Covid related reasons and contracted Covid in the hospital settings?

Do you not want them to be clarified?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 12, 2021, 06:10:37 PM
Bad news for the ROI with 46 deaths reported this evening.  2 of the deaths from December  the other 44 in January. Most daily deaths reported since the end of April.

In some better news 3,086 cases, the lowest daily number since January 1st. Hopefully the daily figures continues to fall for the rest of the week.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 12, 2021, 06:21:59 PM
22 up here too which is a lot. Daily cases maybe stabilising a bit but hospital numbers growing more than anyone would like. At current rate more than a thousand will be in hospital next week. Hopefully it slows before we hit that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 07:04:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 06:09:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 06:00:16 PM
Tell me Angelo, do you think it's fake news,  the numbers in hospitals at the minute I mean?

It's a yes or no question, nothing else

In your own time. As you haven't answered It, just added some waffle

I've already answered yours, all Lives count. Anyone in my family that needs medical right away and Nhs can't provide that service, I'll pay for it.

So someone at 70+ is as important as a 20 year old in my view.

I think the numbers need clarity and context. I think they are deliberately misleading and should be clarified by:

A) How many people were admitted to hospital for Covid related reasons
B) How many cases were admitted to hospital for non-Covid related reasons and contracted Covid in the hospital settings?

Do you not want them to be clarified?

Oh you think they are being brought in as flu victims?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 08:10:50 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 12, 2021, 06:21:59 PM
22 up here too which is a lot. Daily cases maybe stabilising a bit but hospital numbers growing more than anyone would like. At current rate more than a thousand will be in hospital next week. Hopefully it slows before we hit that.

According to Angelo they are fake admissions for Covid, he's not convinced that it's real.

Also any of the old ones just put a pillow over their heads, they've lived their lives. Hitler would have had a lovely job for him
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 08:39:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 07:04:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 06:09:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 06:00:16 PM
Tell me Angelo, do you think it's fake news,  the numbers in hospitals at the minute I mean?

It's a yes or no question, nothing else

In your own time. As you haven't answered It, just added some waffle

I've already answered yours, all Lives count. Anyone in my family that needs medical right away and Nhs can't provide that service, I'll pay for it.

So someone at 70+ is as important as a 20 year old in my view.

I think the numbers need clarity and context. I think they are deliberately misleading and should be clarified by:

A) How many people were admitted to hospital for Covid related reasons
B) How many cases were admitted to hospital for non-Covid related reasons and contracted Covid in the hospital settings?

Do you not want them to be clarified?

Oh you think they are being brought in as flu victims?

No but they could be there for a variety of ailments.

You don't think what a person is admitted to hospital is relevant. You don't want any clarity of context on these figures?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 08:45:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 08:10:50 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 12, 2021, 06:21:59 PM
22 up here too which is a lot. Daily cases maybe stabilising a bit but hospital numbers growing more than anyone would like. At current rate more than a thousand will be in hospital next week. Hopefully it slows before we hit that.

According to Angelo they are fake admissions for Covid, he's not convinced that it's real.

Also any of the old ones just put a pillow over their heads, they've lived their lives. Hitler would have had a lovely job for him

This is the type of hysterical reaction I'd expect from a dimwit without the intellectual ability to frame a decent argument.

Conversely I could say that you want to go around killing 20 year olds. You asked a loaded question to choose who should be saved between a young person and an old person. Clearly you think the old person deserves to continue on living while we should kill the younger person, I would say that in a case of life or death we should prioritise the lives of the elderly and leave the youth to die. I'm sure if you asked any parent of grandparent who have seen there offspring pass before them they'd disagree with your outlook.

But this is the kind of rabbit hole you want to bring this thread down so here we are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 08:51:06 PM
I'm sure that's available.

Are you saying that had we no Covid admissions that the ICU beds would be empty and that we wouldn't be full?

It's strange that you still haven't answered my question.

Do you think Covid is fake?

You brought the question up of me wanting to have my child died over an older person! I can show you the post that you brought up! Rabbit hole! Amazing

Your post


Would you rather lose your 20 year old son/daughter or your 80 year old parent/grandparent? You're the one insisting on me answering that question so how about you give it a go yourself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on January 12, 2021, 08:57:32 PM
FAO Angelo.

22,000 people died of the flu in the US in 2019/20. For context 22,000 died of COVID last week.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trends-graphic/u-s-sets-covid-19-death-record-for-second-week-cases-surge-idUSKBN29G2G9

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:01:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 08:51:06 PM
I'm sure that's available.

Are you saying that had we no Covid admissions that the ICU beds would be empty and that we wouldn't be full?

It's strange that you still haven't answered my question.

Do you think Covid is fake?

You brought the question up of me wanting to have my child died over an older person! I can show you the post that you brought up! Rabbit hole! Amazing

Your post


Would you rather lose your 20 year old son/daughter or your 80 year old parent/grandparent? You're the one insisting on me answering that question so how about you give it a go yourself.

You're the one asking loaded questions here that bear absolutely no correlation to what I said.

You'll find a number of posts back I addressed this consistent and unfounded slur you keep slinging at me, that I want old people to die.

My response:
I'd rather nobody dies but you put a question my way and I think a life not lived is more important to save than a life lived. Presumably you'd rather the 20 year old die given you disagree with me?

You have consistently made unfounded allegations that I want old people to die but given that you disagree with my very rational outlook as outlined above, I can only presume it's because, applying your logic, you want young people to die.

I don't think Covid is a cod but I do think Government are spreading fear and panic and releasing manipulated image that paint a false picture of the current situation.

Id the information is available then is this not clarified. Surely the level of transmission in hospital is of the upmost importance.

The bottom line though is that you seem intent on muddying the waters with hysterical posts, false information and loaded questions.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:06:10 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 12, 2021, 08:57:32 PM
FAO Angelo.

22,000 people died of the flu in the US in 2019/20. For context 22,000 died of COVID last week.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trends-graphic/u-s-sets-covid-19-death-record-for-second-week-cases-surge-idUSKBN29G2G9

For contrast Harold.

How many tests for flu were carried out in 2019/20? There were 275m tests carried out in the US for Covid.

How many positive tests for flu did we have for flu in 2019/20? There are 23m positive cases of Covid in the US

We know all over the world that Covid deaths are overstated, that Covid deaths are measured in an arbitrary manner, if there is a positive Covid test regardless of whether it was a contributory factor., it is recorded as a Covid death.

Please answer these questions or maybe answering (or the inability to) would expose your rather skewed logic
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 09:12:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:01:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 08:51:06 PM
I'm sure that's available.

Are you saying that had we no Covid admissions that the ICU beds would be empty and that we wouldn't be full?

It's strange that you still haven't answered my question.

Do you think Covid is fake?

You brought the question up of me wanting to have my child died over an older person! I can show you the post that you brought up! Rabbit hole! Amazing

Your post


Would you rather lose your 20 year old son/daughter or your 80 year old parent/grandparent? You're the one insisting on me answering that question so how about you give it a go yourself.

You're the one asking loaded questions here that bear absolutely no correlation to what I said.

You'll find a number of posts back I addressed this consistent and unfounded slur you keep slinging at me, that I want old people to die.

My response:
I'd rather nobody dies but you put a question my way and I think a life not lived is more important to save than a life lived. Presumably you'd rather the 20 year old die given you disagree with me?

You have consistently made unfounded allegations that I want old people to die but given that you disagree with my very rational outlook as outlined above, I can only presume it's because, applying your logic, you want young people to die.

I don't think Covid is a cod but I do think Government are spreading fear and panic and releasing manipulated image that paint a false picture of the current situation.

Id the information is available then is this not clarified. Surely the level of transmission in hospital is of the upmost importance.

The bottom line though is that you seem intent on muddying the waters with hysterical posts, false information and loaded questions.

Hysterical? You brought up me doing Sophie's choice ffs! You are losing the plot. You have and I'll quote you:

But I think if it's a choice that had to be made in the matter you'd try and save the person in their 20s as they have their whole life to live

And then:

I think a life not lived is more important to save than a love lived.

Shipman was nicer

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on January 12, 2021, 09:14:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:06:10 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 12, 2021, 08:57:32 PM
FAO Angelo.

22,000 people died of the flu in the US in 2019/20. For context 22,000 died of COVID last week.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trends-graphic/u-s-sets-covid-19-death-record-for-second-week-cases-surge-idUSKBN29G2G9

For contrast Harold.

How many tests for flu were carried out in 2019/20? There were 275m tests carried out in the US for Covid.

How many positive tests for flu did we have for flu in 2019/20? There are 23m positive cases of Covid in the US

We know all over the world that Covid deaths are overstated, that Covid deaths are measured in an arbitrary manner, if there is a positive Covid test regardless of whether it was a contributory factor., it is recorded as a Covid death.

Please answer these questions or maybe answering (or the inability to) would expose your rather skewed logic

Evidence for this please. Can you provide peer reviewed sources?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:17:08 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 12, 2021, 09:14:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:06:10 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 12, 2021, 08:57:32 PM
FAO Angelo.

22,000 people died of the flu in the US in 2019/20. For context 22,000 died of COVID last week.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trends-graphic/u-s-sets-covid-19-death-record-for-second-week-cases-surge-idUSKBN29G2G9

For contrast Harold.

How many tests for flu were carried out in 2019/20? There were 275m tests carried out in the US for Covid.

How many positive tests for flu did we have for flu in 2019/20? There are 23m positive cases of Covid in the US

We know all over the world that Covid deaths are overstated, that Covid deaths are measured in an arbitrary manner, if there is a positive Covid test regardless of whether it was a contributory factor., it is recorded as a Covid death.

Please answer these questions or maybe answering (or the inability to) would expose your rather skewed logic

Evidence for this please. Can you provide peer reviewed sources?

You haven't answered the questions Harold.

I wonder is that because you're not really an honest broker here.

I have done this already today, go back and read the last few pages about how NISRA classify their deaths.

You really need to answer the questions asked here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on January 12, 2021, 09:29:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:17:08 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 12, 2021, 09:14:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:06:10 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 12, 2021, 08:57:32 PM
FAO Angelo.

22,000 people died of the flu in the US in 2019/20. For context 22,000 died of COVID last week.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trends-graphic/u-s-sets-covid-19-death-record-for-second-week-cases-surge-idUSKBN29G2G9

For contrast Harold.

How many tests for flu were carried out in 2019/20? There were 275m tests carried out in the US for Covid.

How many positive tests for flu did we have for flu in 2019/20? There are 23m positive cases of Covid in the US

We know all over the world that Covid deaths are overstated, that Covid deaths are measured in an arbitrary manner, if there is a positive Covid test regardless of whether it was a contributory factor., it is recorded as a Covid death.

Please answer these questions or maybe answering (or the inability to) would expose your rather skewed logic

Evidence for this please. Can you provide peer reviewed sources?

You haven't answered the questions Harold.

I wonder is that because you're not really an honest broker here.

I have done this already today, go back and read the last few pages about how NISRA classify their deaths.

You really need to answer the questions asked here.

The answer is provided in the original CDC link.

I just presented statistics and their sources and somehow I'm not an honest broker?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:40:29 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 12, 2021, 09:29:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:17:08 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 12, 2021, 09:14:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:06:10 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 12, 2021, 08:57:32 PM
FAO Angelo.

22,000 people died of the flu in the US in 2019/20. For context 22,000 died of COVID last week.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-trends-graphic/u-s-sets-covid-19-death-record-for-second-week-cases-surge-idUSKBN29G2G9

For contrast Harold.

How many tests for flu were carried out in 2019/20? There were 275m tests carried out in the US for Covid.

How many positive tests for flu did we have for flu in 2019/20? There are 23m positive cases of Covid in the US

We know all over the world that Covid deaths are overstated, that Covid deaths are measured in an arbitrary manner, if there is a positive Covid test regardless of whether it was a contributory factor., it is recorded as a Covid death.

Please answer these questions or maybe answering (or the inability to) would expose your rather skewed logic

Evidence for this please. Can you provide peer reviewed sources?

You haven't answered the questions Harold.

I wonder is that because you're not really an honest broker here.

I have done this already today, go back and read the last few pages about how NISRA classify their deaths.

You really need to answer the questions asked here.

The answer is provided in the original CDC link.

I just presented statistics and their sources and somehow I'm not an honest broker?

Those questions remain unanswered. They're simple questions, put a figure on them.

You have not told me how many tests were carried out for flu in the US in 2019/20? How many is it or will you continue to avoid this question?
275m is the number of Covid tests carried out in the US for contrast.

You have not answered how many positive flu tests we had in the US in 2019/20? How many is it or will you continue to avoid the question?
23m is the number of positive Covid tests returned in the US for contrast.

So if you can't answer these then it really undermines the message you are trying to communicate here.

Go on and surprise me. Show me you are an honest broker.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:48:58 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.

I've never said it's not real but there is a lot of misinformation flying out there.

Is not hard to countenance for people how we accepted a level of death in Jan 2018 without batting an eyelid that has yet to be reached yet during any month of Coivd when hysteria is running wild.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 10:10:46 PM
Who didn't bat an eyelid?

Someone posted many links to headlines about that really bad flu of 17/18 but you keep saying no one said a thing!

Really bizarre.

You question the admissions as if people are in for other illnesses rather than Covid.

You probably were one of the twits that believe those photos of empty wards!

Have you a link to this information you quoted earlier:?

We do know hospitals are a major part of the transmission and people who were admitted for other reasons than Covid are again included in the Covid numbers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 10:14:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:48:58 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.

I've never said it's not real but there is a lot of misinformation flying out there.

Is not hard to countenance for people how we accepted a level of death in Jan 2018 without batting an eyelid that has yet to be reached yet during any month of Coivd when hysteria is running wild.
How many lock downs were in place in 2018?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyssam5 on January 12, 2021, 10:27:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 06:09:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 06:00:16 PM
Tell me Angelo, do you think it's fake news,  the numbers in hospitals at the minute I mean?

It's a yes or no question, nothing else

In your own time. As you haven't answered It, just added some waffle

I've already answered yours, all Lives count. Anyone in my family that needs medical right away and Nhs can't provide that service, I'll pay for it.

So someone at 70+ is as important as a 20 year old in my view.

I think the numbers need clarity and context. I think they are deliberately misleading and should be clarified by:

A) How many people were admitted to hospital for Covid related reasons
B) How many cases were admitted to hospital for non-Covid related reasons and contracted Covid in the hospital settings?

Do you not want them to be clarified?

Let's asume B is an appreciable %. Why does it matter? Either way they Covid is f**king the health service. I don't think anyone is dandering into hospital at the minute for trivial reasons.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 10:14:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:48:58 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.

I've never said it's not real but there is a lot of misinformation flying out there.

Is not hard to countenance for people how we accepted a level of death in Jan 2018 without batting an eyelid that has yet to be reached yet during any month of Coivd when hysteria is running wild.
How many lock downs were in place in 2018?

Don't know, we did not seem to care about spiraling death rates in 2017/18.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:38:44 PM
Quote from: tyssam5 on January 12, 2021, 10:27:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 06:09:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 06:00:16 PM
Tell me Angelo, do you think it's fake news,  the numbers in hospitals at the minute I mean?

It's a yes or no question, nothing else

In your own time. As you haven't answered It, just added some waffle

I've already answered yours, all Lives count. Anyone in my family that needs medical right away and Nhs can't provide that service, I'll pay for it.

So someone at 70+ is as important as a 20 year old in my view.

I think the numbers need clarity and context. I think they are deliberately misleading and should be clarified by:

A) How many people were admitted to hospital for Covid related reasons
B) How many cases were admitted to hospital for non-Covid related reasons and contracted Covid in the hospital settings?

Do you not want them to be clarified?

Let's asume B is an appreciable %. Why does it matter? Either way they Covid is f**king the health service. I don't think anyone is dandering into hospital at the minute for trivial reasons.

It matters because we need to know how many admissions are related to Covid and we need to know how high transmission levels are in hospitals? You don't think that information matters?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 10:41:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 10:14:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:48:58 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.

I've never said it's not real but there is a lot of misinformation flying out there.

Is not hard to countenance for people how we accepted a level of death in Jan 2018 without batting an eyelid that has yet to be reached yet during any month of Coivd when hysteria is running wild.
How many lock downs were in place in 2018?

Don't know, we did not seem to care about spiraling death rates in 2017/18.

You'll hardly care as it'll get rid of the elderly a weak
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:45:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 10:10:46 PM
Who didn't bat an eyelid?

Someone posted many links to headlines about that really bad flu of 17/18 but you keep saying no one said a thing!

Really bizarre.

You question the admissions as if people are in for other illnesses rather than Covid.

You probably were one of the twits that believe those photos of empty wards!

Have you a link to this information you quoted earlier:?

We do know hospitals are a major part of the transmission and people who were admitted for other reasons than Covid are again included in the Covid numbers.

You for one.

If you have posts on here where you outlined your concerns back then, please post them up.

Once again you look for links and verification from others but you seem happy to put forward arguments which are completely lacking logic, are in direct conflict with your own rationale and can't provide anything of substance to validate your own contradictory views.

https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-transmission-hospitals/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:47:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 10:41:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 10:14:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:48:58 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.

I've never said it's not real but there is a lot of misinformation flying out there.

Is not hard to countenance for people how we accepted a level of death in Jan 2018 without batting an eyelid that has yet to be reached yet during any month of Coivd when hysteria is running wild.
How many lock downs were in place in 2018?

Don't know, we did not seem to care about spiraling death rates in 2017/18.

You'll hardly care as it'll get rid of the elderly a weak

Why didn't you care in 2017/18? Did you decide to become sanctimonious this year or did you just find the perfect storm to virtue signal.

In 2018 you didn't seem to give a shit about the elderly and weak so tell me what has changed for you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 10:48:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 10:14:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:48:58 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.

I've never said it's not real but there is a lot of misinformation flying out there.

Is not hard to countenance for people how we accepted a level of death in Jan 2018 without batting an eyelid that has yet to be reached yet during any month of Coivd when hysteria is running wild.
How many lock downs were in place in 2018?

Don't know, we did not seem to care about spiraling death rates in 2017/18.
You don't know how many lock downs there were in 2018? I'll give you a clue. Less than 1.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:51:14 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 10:48:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 10:14:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:48:58 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.

I've never said it's not real but there is a lot of misinformation flying out there.

Is not hard to countenance for people how we accepted a level of death in Jan 2018 without batting an eyelid that has yet to be reached yet during any month of Coivd when hysteria is running wild.
How many lock downs were in place in 2018?

Don't know, we did not seem to care about spiraling death rates in 2017/18.
You don't know how many lock downs there were in 2018? I'll give you a clue. Less than 1.

And why weren't there any? How many lives were lost that could have been saved?

Why was nobody shouting for lockdowns to save lives in 2017/18?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.
Very good post

46 dead in the Republic is the latest daily figure and I fear my father will be among these figures in the near future, he is on Day 10 and now has pneumonia, is being fed through a tube in his nose and fluids through IV, I find it hard to see him make it through to be honest

He is afraid and alone and my heart is breaking over it, I spent nearly ten months doing everything I could to keep Covid out, I haven't been in a pub since the start of March, I succeeded in keeping it out but he got it when he had go to hospital for a treatable non-Covid medical problem

Wake the f**k up Angelo and stop spreading shite, you know you're talking shite and so does everybody else, I honestly don't get your game
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 10:53:35 PM
Like anyone takes you seriously Angelo   ;D


Read through that, words like probable and no data in that. So they don'  know. Said maybe 10% 20 % of cases could have been caught in hospital, they like others caught Covid, same way being in a supermarket or a pub or anywhere, that means 90% to 80% of cases were caught outside of hospital.

Do they still have Covid regardless of where they get it?


We all know places like care homes and hospitals where a hotbed of Covid activity
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:55:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.
Very good post

46 dead in the Republic is the latest daily figure and I fear my father will be among these figures in the near future, he is on Day 10 and now has pneumonia, is being fed through a tube in his nose and fluids through IV, I find it hard to see him make it through to be honest

He is afraid and alone and my heart is breaking over it, I spent nearly ten months doing everything I could to keep Covid out, I haven't been in a pub since the start of March, I succeeded in keeping it out but he got it when he had go to hospital for a treatable non-Covid medical problem

Wake the f**k up Angelo and stop spreading shite, you know you're talking shite and so does everybody else, I honestly don't get your game

What shite am I talking?

That we were happy to let 2,101 die without a quibble in Jan 2018?

If anyone can post their outrage from back then please feel free to bump a few posts. Nobody batted an eyelid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 10:57:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:55:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.
Very good post

46 dead in the Republic is the latest daily figure and I fear my father will be among these figures in the near future, he is on Day 10 and now has pneumonia, is being fed through a tube in his nose and fluids through IV, I find it hard to see him make it through to be honest

He is afraid and alone and my heart is breaking over it, I spent nearly ten months doing everything I could to keep Covid out, I haven't been in a pub since the start of March, I succeeded in keeping it out but he got it when he had go to hospital for a treatable non-Covid medical problem

Wake the f**k up Angelo and stop spreading shite, you know you're talking shite and so does everybody else, I honestly don't get your game

What shite am I talking?

That we were happy to let 2,101 die without a quibble in Jan 2018?

If anyone can post their outrage from back then please feel free to bump a few posts. Nobody batted an eyelid.

Are you thick or blind?

You were given plenty links to the outrage of the 17/18 flu deaths! Honestly wise up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:57:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 10:53:35 PM
Like anyone takes you seriously Angelo   ;D


Read through that, words like probable and no data in that. So they don'  know. Said maybe 10% 20 % of cases could have been caught in hospital, they like others caught Covid, sane way being in a supermarket or a pub or anywhere, that means 90% to 80% of cases were caught outside of hospital.

Do they still have Covid regardless of where they get it?


We all know places like care homes and hospitals where a hotbed of Covid activity

I think tracking the transmission cases, particularly in a hospital where vulnerable people are would be quite important? Obviously you think collating this kind of information and acting on it is a waste of time though? The fact that they could act on this is a waste of time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 10:59:31 PM
So you accept that up to 90% of Covid cases were caught outside of hospital?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 10:59:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:51:14 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 10:48:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 10:14:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:48:58 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.

I've never said it's not real but there is a lot of misinformation flying out there.

Is not hard to countenance for people how we accepted a level of death in Jan 2018 without batting an eyelid that has yet to be reached yet during any month of Coivd when hysteria is running wild.
How many lock downs were in place in 2018?

Don't know, we did not seem to care about spiraling death rates in 2017/18.
You don't know how many lock downs there were in 2018? I'll give you a clue. Less than 1.

And why weren't there any? How many lives were lost that could have been saved?

Why was nobody shouting for lockdowns to save lives in 2017/18?
Because month on month the comparable figures for 2020 read much worse than 2017-2018. Jan 2020 isn't over yet so at this stage we may indeed pass out 2018.  And that was still the worse year in 40 years.  And that is comparing a year with no lockdowns to one that has. And that was a overtly cold winter. And there were eyes batted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:00:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 10:57:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 10:55:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.
Very good post

46 dead in the Republic is the latest daily figure and I fear my father will be among these figures in the near future, he is on Day 10 and now has pneumonia, is being fed through a tube in his nose and fluids through IV, I find it hard to see him make it through to be honest

He is afraid and alone and my heart is breaking over it, I spent nearly ten months doing everything I could to keep Covid out, I haven't been in a pub since the start of March, I succeeded in keeping it out but he got it when he had go to hospital for a treatable non-Covid medical problem

Wake the f**k up Angelo and stop spreading shite, you know you're talking shite and so does everybody else, I honestly don't get your game

What shite am I talking?

That we were happy to let 2,101 die without a quibble in Jan 2018?

If anyone can post their outrage from back then please feel free to bump a few posts. Nobody batted an eyelid.

Are you thick or blind?

You were given plenty links to the outrage of the 17/18 flu deaths! Honestly wise up

Projecting again, petal.

You can't answer a single question, you neither have the balls or intelligence to be able to engage here.

All you have in your locker is completely unsubstantiated hysterical slurs.

Found a post yet on where you were fighting for the elderly and weak in 2017/18 when 2,101 people died in the O6 in January 2018.

Prove me wrong motormouth, show me you actually cared rather than use it as a vehicle for your painful sanctimony.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:02:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 10:59:50 PM

Because month on month the comparable figures for 2020 read much worse than 2017-2018. Jan 2020 isn't over yet so at this stage we may indeed pass out 2018.  And that was still the worse year in 40 years.  And that is comparing a year with no lockdowns to one that has. And that was a overtly cold winter. And there were eyes batted.

So what you're telling me 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 was an acceptable death toll because what you have just done is justify that level of death.

It may pass Jan 2018 out, it may also not. But in Jan 2018 that level of death was acceptable, because Covid is about now, it's out.

It's shocking hypocrisy, ok to die from flu, not ok to die from Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 10:59:31 PM
So you accept that up to 90% of Covid cases were caught outside of hospital?

I haven't accepted anything of the sort, you seem intent of attributing statements to me where I've said nothing of the sort.

Can you just try and stick to the truth for once.

You have any luck in finding your outrage during the winter flu season of 17/18 or was it a case you didn't bat an eyelid at that level of death. You just waited until 2020 to go on a crusade for the sick and elderly.

Your sanctimony is very, very cynical.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 11:14:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:02:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 12, 2021, 10:59:50 PM

Because month on month the comparable figures for 2020 read much worse than 2017-2018. Jan 2020 isn't over yet so at this stage we may indeed pass out 2018.  And that was still the worse year in 40 years.  And that is comparing a year with no lockdowns to one that has. And that was a overtly cold winter. And there were eyes batted.

So what you're telling me 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 was an acceptable death toll because what you have just done is justify that level of death.

It may pass Jan 2018 out, it may also not. But in Jan 2018 that level of death was acceptable, because Covid is about now, it's out.

It's shocking hypocrisy, ok to die from flu, not ok to die from Covid.

It's not shocking hypocrisy. The excess deaths in 2018 weren't attributed to one reason. It was a number of reasons. Plus, which I'm sick of repeating, there was no lock downs so your not comparing like for like. Plus it's the worst winter death rate in 40 years. This is Covids first year. If you don't get this, then I don't really know what to say.

**Edit - I should add that even with al the drastic changes that were implemented in 2020. Nov and Dec 2020  are roughly 20% higher deaths than winter 2017. And that's your worst year for comparison in 40 years. Your argument doesn't hold water at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 11:16:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 12, 2021, 10:59:31 PM
So you accept that up to 90% of Covid cases were caught outside of hospital?

I haven't accepted anything of the sort, you seem intent of attributing statements to me where I've said nothing of the sort.

Can you just try and stick to the truth for once.

You have any luck in finding your outrage during the winter flu season of 17/18 or was it a case you didn't bat an eyelid at that level of death. You just waited until 2020 to go on a crusade for the sick and elderly.

Your sanctimony is very, very cynical.

Your link that you put up said up to 90% caught outside of hospital, not my link, yours
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 13, 2021, 02:32:28 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.
Very good post

46 dead in the Republic is the latest daily figure and I fear my father will be among these figures in the near future, he is on Day 10 and now has pneumonia, is being fed through a tube in his nose and fluids through IV, I find it hard to see him make it through to be honest

He is afraid and alone and my heart is breaking over it, I spent nearly ten months doing everything I could to keep Covid out, I haven't been in a pub since the start of March, I succeeded in keeping it out but he got it when he had go to hospital for a treatable non-Covid medical problem



Sorry to hear that Sid.  I hope he pulls through.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 07:29:16 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.
Very good post

46 dead in the Republic is the latest daily figure and I fear my father will be among these figures in the near future, he is on Day 10 and now has pneumonia, is being fed through a tube in his nose and fluids through IV, I find it hard to see him make it through to be honest

He is afraid and alone and my heart is breaking over it, I spent nearly ten months doing everything I could to keep Covid out, I haven't been in a pub since the start of March, I succeeded in keeping it out but he got it when he had go to hospital for a treatable non-Covid medical problem

Wake the f**k up Angelo and stop spreading shite, you know you're talking shite and so does everybody else, I honestly don't get your game

So sorry to read that Sid :(

If Angelo is a real person and not a wum he's got a lot of issues going on. I don't know if lockdown hasn't been kind or what there but at this point it's just car crash stuff. The internet isn't good for troubled people sometimes :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 07:44:25 AM
With his side kick gone Angelo will  implode and his head will flip.

Like he's not even embarrassed at all
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 09:32:48 AM
Has Milltown managed to find any posts where he was outraged at record death totals in January 2018 or is he still going around accusing posters of wanting to suffocate the elderly with pillows without any basis?

A nasty little man.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 09:38:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 07:29:16 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.
Very good post

46 dead in the Republic is the latest daily figure and I fear my father will be among these figures in the near future, he is on Day 10 and now has pneumonia, is being fed through a tube in his nose and fluids through IV, I find it hard to see him make it through to be honest

He is afraid and alone and my heart is breaking over it, I spent nearly ten months doing everything I could to keep Covid out, I haven't been in a pub since the start of March, I succeeded in keeping it out but he got it when he had go to hospital for a treatable non-Covid medical problem

Wake the f**k up Angelo and stop spreading shite, you know you're talking shite and so does everybody else, I honestly don't get your game

So sorry to read that Sid :(

If Angelo is a real person and not a wum he's got a lot of issues going on. I don't know if lockdown hasn't been kind or what there but at this point it's just car crash stuff. The internet isn't good for troubled people sometimes :(

I've offered a rational argument at all times.

I have the likes of you put in a corner with your false equivalency. When I bring up the winter flu in 2017/18 when we had record deaths in Jan 2018, you have to entrench yourself in and justify that and when you do that it removes any credibility in what you argue for now.

All you are is a sanctimonious mouthpiece. Why was 2,101 deaths acceptable to you in Jan 2018 and if it wasn't show me the posts where you spoke out against it at the time.

I know I won't expect any engagement with you on this core point because you are complete and utter hypocrite with a large dose of sanctimony and virtue signalling thrown in, which we know for sure is a complete facade.

Where has Harold ran off to with my unanswered questions too? All I can see is a lot of cowards here who justify people dying from flu but thing the world should be thrown into chaos in case those with Covid have the same outcome and when you're pressed on it all you resort too are slurs and attributing ridiculous statements to me which have no correlation with what I said. Be a man for once.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 09:40:54 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:40:29 PM


Those questions remain unanswered. They're simple questions, put a figure on them.

You have not told me how many tests were carried out for flu in the US in 2019/20? How many is it or will you continue to avoid this question?
275m is the number of Covid tests carried out in the US for contrast.

You have not answered how many positive flu tests we had in the US in 2019/20? How many is it or will you continue to avoid the question?
23m is the number of positive Covid tests returned in the US for contrast.

So if you can't answer these then it really undermines the message you are trying to communicate here.

Go on and surprise me. Show me you are an honest broker.

Bumped for Harold if he ever decides to come back.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 09:46:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 09:32:48 AM
Has Milltown managed to find any posts where he was outraged at record death totals in January 2018 or is he still going around accusing posters of wanting to suffocate the elderly with pillows without any basis?

A nasty little man.

You must be on the glue, and its so early!! I posted up the thread, Aussie Flu 2018, Jan, it was discussed on here you really need to go and have a lie down
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 09:49:05 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 09:38:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 07:29:16 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.
Very good post

46 dead in the Republic is the latest daily figure and I fear my father will be among these figures in the near future, he is on Day 10 and now has pneumonia, is being fed through a tube in his nose and fluids through IV, I find it hard to see him make it through to be honest

He is afraid and alone and my heart is breaking over it, I spent nearly ten months doing everything I could to keep Covid out, I haven't been in a pub since the start of March, I succeeded in keeping it out but he got it when he had go to hospital for a treatable non-Covid medical problem

Wake the f**k up Angelo and stop spreading shite, you know you're talking shite and so does everybody else, I honestly don't get your game

So sorry to read that Sid :(

If Angelo is a real person and not a wum he's got a lot of issues going on. I don't know if lockdown hasn't been kind or what there but at this point it's just car crash stuff. The internet isn't good for troubled people sometimes :(

I've offered a rational argument at all times.

I have the likes of you put in a corner with your false equivalency. When I bring up the winter flu in 2017/18 when we had record deaths in Jan 2018, you have to entrench yourself in and justify that and when you do that it removes any credibility in what you argue for now.

All you are is a sanctimonious mouthpiece. Why was 2,101 deaths acceptable to you in Jan 2018 and if it wasn't show me the posts where you spoke out against it at the time.

I know I won't expect any engagement with you on this core point because you are complete and utter hypocrite with a large dose of sanctimony and virtue signalling thrown in, which we know for sure is a complete facade.

Where has Harold ran off to with my unanswered questions too? All I can see is a lot of cowards here who justify people dying from flu but thing the world should be thrown into chaos in case those with Covid have the same outcome and when you're pressed on it all you resort too are slurs and attributing ridiculous statements to me which have no correlation with what I said. Be a man for once.

You don't know the meaning of the word rational and you don't know the meaning of the word logical if you view yourself as rational and logical.

There's little point in engaging with you. You have been shown up to be irrational and illogical time and again but you just can't comprehend it.

You seriously need to take time away from the internet. It isn't good for you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on January 13, 2021, 09:51:41 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 09:40:54 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:40:29 PM


Those questions remain unanswered. They're simple questions, put a figure on them.

You have not told me how many tests were carried out for flu in the US in 2019/20? How many is it or will you continue to avoid this question?
275m is the number of Covid tests carried out in the US for contrast.

You have not answered how many positive flu tests we had in the US in 2019/20? How many is it or will you continue to avoid the question?
23m is the number of positive Covid tests returned in the US for contrast.

So if you can't answer these then it really undermines the message you are trying to communicate here.

Go on and surprise me. Show me you are an honest broker.

Bumped for Harold if he ever decides to come back.

When you have something sensible to say I might engage with you. I have no time for you and your ilk.  f**king imbecile.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 09:53:33 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 09:49:05 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 09:38:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 07:29:16 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.
Very good post

46 dead in the Republic is the latest daily figure and I fear my father will be among these figures in the near future, he is on Day 10 and now has pneumonia, is being fed through a tube in his nose and fluids through IV, I find it hard to see him make it through to be honest

He is afraid and alone and my heart is breaking over it, I spent nearly ten months doing everything I could to keep Covid out, I haven't been in a pub since the start of March, I succeeded in keeping it out but he got it when he had go to hospital for a treatable non-Covid medical problem

Wake the f**k up Angelo and stop spreading shite, you know you're talking shite and so does everybody else, I honestly don't get your game

So sorry to read that Sid :(

If Angelo is a real person and not a wum he's got a lot of issues going on. I don't know if lockdown hasn't been kind or what there but at this point it's just car crash stuff. The internet isn't good for troubled people sometimes :(

I've offered a rational argument at all times.

I have the likes of you put in a corner with your false equivalency. When I bring up the winter flu in 2017/18 when we had record deaths in Jan 2018, you have to entrench yourself in and justify that and when you do that it removes any credibility in what you argue for now.

All you are is a sanctimonious mouthpiece. Why was 2,101 deaths acceptable to you in Jan 2018 and if it wasn't show me the posts where you spoke out against it at the time.

I know I won't expect any engagement with you on this core point because you are complete and utter hypocrite with a large dose of sanctimony and virtue signalling thrown in, which we know for sure is a complete facade.

Where has Harold ran off to with my unanswered questions too? All I can see is a lot of cowards here who justify people dying from flu but thing the world should be thrown into chaos in case those with Covid have the same outcome and when you're pressed on it all you resort too are slurs and attributing ridiculous statements to me which have no correlation with what I said. Be a man for once.

You don't know the meaning of the word rational and you don't know the meaning of the word logical if you view yourself as rational and logical.

There's little point in engaging with you. You have been shown up to be irrational and illogical time and again but you just can't comprehend it.

You seriously need to take time away from the internet. It isn't good for you.

Irony alert.

You don't have a choice in the matter wee man, you are bound by your own contradictions and your innate cowardice and that's why you choose not to engage.

I defy you to prove me wrong, the floor is yours.

Show me your disgust at 2,101 deaths during the 17/18 winter flu season?? Bump a few posts you made outlining it because all I have seen from your are extraordinary double standards where you justify that level of death back then. You then support the theory that winter lockdown eradicated flu this winter. So when you apply that set of rationale you are openly saying that we cost hundreds of lives back then by not locking down and then you justify that.

You're a coward and not a very bright one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 09:59:18 AM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on January 13, 2021, 09:51:41 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 09:40:54 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 09:40:29 PM


Those questions remain unanswered. They're simple questions, put a figure on them.

You have not told me how many tests were carried out for flu in the US in 2019/20? How many is it or will you continue to avoid this question?
275m is the number of Covid tests carried out in the US for contrast.

You have not answered how many positive flu tests we had in the US in 2019/20? How many is it or will you continue to avoid the question?
23m is the number of positive Covid tests returned in the US for contrast.

So if you can't answer these then it really undermines the message you are trying to communicate here.

Go on and surprise me. Show me you are an honest broker.

Bumped for Harold if he ever decides to come back.

When you have something sensible to say I might engage with you. I have no time for you and your ilk.  f**king imbecile.

I did ask something sensible. I asked for you to add context to what you first said.

And as I preempted the whole basis for you argument was utterly ridiculous and you were too much of a coward to substantiate and context and clarity to your posts.

You brought up US flu figures but when it was put to you that we don't have a flu test carried out int he US, you tried to deflect and run away. How many positive cases of flu do you think would be recorded every year if 275m flu tests were carried out in the US? How many deaths would be recorded from flu if we carried out the same testing and recording procedures we do for Covid? These all very logical and relative points but because your brain has a very limited ability you ran away in fear and shame when I hit you with the absurdity of your agument.

And you dare to call me an imbecile? Are you always like this when you've been made look like a mug?

Again I will defy you to prove me wrong, be a man and stand behind what you said, debate the points. Let's contrast how we record flu cases and deaths with how we do the same for Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:01:59 AM
Not busy today, so will get the popcorn ready for this explosion!

Definite signs of Schizophrenia
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 10:02:26 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 09:53:33 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 09:49:05 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 09:38:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 07:29:16 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.
Very good post

46 dead in the Republic is the latest daily figure and I fear my father will be among these figures in the near future, he is on Day 10 and now has pneumonia, is being fed through a tube in his nose and fluids through IV, I find it hard to see him make it through to be honest

He is afraid and alone and my heart is breaking over it, I spent nearly ten months doing everything I could to keep Covid out, I haven't been in a pub since the start of March, I succeeded in keeping it out but he got it when he had go to hospital for a treatable non-Covid medical problem

Wake the f**k up Angelo and stop spreading shite, you know you're talking shite and so does everybody else, I honestly don't get your game

So sorry to read that Sid :(

If Angelo is a real person and not a wum he's got a lot of issues going on. I don't know if lockdown hasn't been kind or what there but at this point it's just car crash stuff. The internet isn't good for troubled people sometimes :(

I've offered a rational argument at all times.

I have the likes of you put in a corner with your false equivalency. When I bring up the winter flu in 2017/18 when we had record deaths in Jan 2018, you have to entrench yourself in and justify that and when you do that it removes any credibility in what you argue for now.

All you are is a sanctimonious mouthpiece. Why was 2,101 deaths acceptable to you in Jan 2018 and if it wasn't show me the posts where you spoke out against it at the time.

I know I won't expect any engagement with you on this core point because you are complete and utter hypocrite with a large dose of sanctimony and virtue signalling thrown in, which we know for sure is a complete facade.

Where has Harold ran off to with my unanswered questions too? All I can see is a lot of cowards here who justify people dying from flu but thing the world should be thrown into chaos in case those with Covid have the same outcome and when you're pressed on it all you resort too are slurs and attributing ridiculous statements to me which have no correlation with what I said. Be a man for once.

You don't know the meaning of the word rational and you don't know the meaning of the word logical if you view yourself as rational and logical.

There's little point in engaging with you. You have been shown up to be irrational and illogical time and again but you just can't comprehend it.

You seriously need to take time away from the internet. It isn't good for you.

Irony alert.

You don't have a choice in the matter wee man, you are bound by your own contradictions and your innate cowardice and that's why you choose not to engage.

I defy you to prove me wrong, the floor is yours.

Show me your disgust at 2,101 deaths during the 17/18 winter flu season?? Bump a few posts you made outlining it because all I have seen from your are extraordinary double standards where you justify that level of death back then. You then support the theory that winter lockdown eradicated flu this winter. So when you apply that set of rationale you are openly saying that we cost hundreds of lives back then by not locking down and then you justify that.

You're a coward and not a very bright one.

The internet and lockdown is a just a bit too much for you. There's too much information for you, you've too much time on your hands and your brain just can't process it.

It would be better for you to stay away from it. Get a hobby, a job or find an outlet. It would do you good.

(The anger isn't healthy either).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:05:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:01:59 AM
Not busy today, so will get the popcorn ready for this explosion!

Definite signs of Schizophrenia

Still no sign of your outrage at the deaths of the elderly in 17/18???

You going to call me Harold Shipman again and accuse me of wanting to suffocate elderly people. That's the kind of level of nastiness and viciousness we have come to expect from you. Wee snide jokes about serial killers and murdering elderly as you justify elderly people being sent to their slaughter during the winter flu season. I'm glad you find it so funny.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:06:24 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 10:02:26 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 09:53:33 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 09:49:05 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 09:38:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 07:29:16 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.
Very good post

46 dead in the Republic is the latest daily figure and I fear my father will be among these figures in the near future, he is on Day 10 and now has pneumonia, is being fed through a tube in his nose and fluids through IV, I find it hard to see him make it through to be honest

He is afraid and alone and my heart is breaking over it, I spent nearly ten months doing everything I could to keep Covid out, I haven't been in a pub since the start of March, I succeeded in keeping it out but he got it when he had go to hospital for a treatable non-Covid medical problem

Wake the f**k up Angelo and stop spreading shite, you know you're talking shite and so does everybody else, I honestly don't get your game

So sorry to read that Sid :(

If Angelo is a real person and not a wum he's got a lot of issues going on. I don't know if lockdown hasn't been kind or what there but at this point it's just car crash stuff. The internet isn't good for troubled people sometimes :(

I've offered a rational argument at all times.

I have the likes of you put in a corner with your false equivalency. When I bring up the winter flu in 2017/18 when we had record deaths in Jan 2018, you have to entrench yourself in and justify that and when you do that it removes any credibility in what you argue for now.

All you are is a sanctimonious mouthpiece. Why was 2,101 deaths acceptable to you in Jan 2018 and if it wasn't show me the posts where you spoke out against it at the time.

I know I won't expect any engagement with you on this core point because you are complete and utter hypocrite with a large dose of sanctimony and virtue signalling thrown in, which we know for sure is a complete facade.

Where has Harold ran off to with my unanswered questions too? All I can see is a lot of cowards here who justify people dying from flu but thing the world should be thrown into chaos in case those with Covid have the same outcome and when you're pressed on it all you resort too are slurs and attributing ridiculous statements to me which have no correlation with what I said. Be a man for once.

You don't know the meaning of the word rational and you don't know the meaning of the word logical if you view yourself as rational and logical.

There's little point in engaging with you. You have been shown up to be irrational and illogical time and again but you just can't comprehend it.

You seriously need to take time away from the internet. It isn't good for you.

Irony alert.

You don't have a choice in the matter wee man, you are bound by your own contradictions and your innate cowardice and that's why you choose not to engage.

I defy you to prove me wrong, the floor is yours.

Show me your disgust at 2,101 deaths during the 17/18 winter flu season?? Bump a few posts you made outlining it because all I have seen from your are extraordinary double standards where you justify that level of death back then. You then support the theory that winter lockdown eradicated flu this winter. So when you apply that set of rationale you are openly saying that we cost hundreds of lives back then by not locking down and then you justify that.

You're a coward and not a very bright one.

The internet and lockdown is a just a bit too much for you. There's too much information for you, you've too much time on your hands and your brain just can't process it.

It would be better for you to stay away from it. Get a hobby, a job or find an outlet. It would do you good.

(The anger isn't healthy either).

The floor is yours wee man. You had the chance to explain to the rest of us why you found record death levels acceptable in Jan 2018 but you're not man enough to stand over it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 10:08:08 AM
I'm not engaging with you - there's no point. You're telling multiple people here they have said things they haven't and for them to prove you otherwise.

What's the point?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:05:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:01:59 AM
Not busy today, so will get the popcorn ready for this explosion!

Definite signs of Schizophrenia

Still no sign of your outrage at the deaths of the elderly in 17/18???

You going to call me Harold Shipman again and accuse me of wanting to suffocate elderly people. That's the kind of level of nastiness and viciousness we have come to expect from you. Wee snide jokes about serial killers and murdering elderly as you justify elderly people being sent to their slaughter during the winter flu season. I'm glad you find it so funny.

Ok, I know your not well, so I'll explain it one more time, If you look down the front page of the Non GAA discussion page, there is a thread called Aussie Flu, was started in 2018, Jan..

It talks about the lad from Tyrone, I think young family and he died of the strain that was about at the time, was a very strong strain which caused a lot of deaths worldwide, keep up..

So, someone started a thread about it called Aussie flu, and boarders discussed it. Now it didn't have a 1000 pages as you or Seaney were not on the internet then and ordinary discussions were had
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:11:39 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 10:08:08 AM
I'm not engaging with you - there's no point. You're telling multiple people here they have said things they haven't and for them to prove you otherwise.

What's the point?

You're not engaging with me. Yet you are here avoiding the issue and tossing insults about.

Why are you doing this? Because I have you, I have you shown up as a complete and utter sanctimonious hypocrite who is justifying record deaths in Jan 2018.

The floor is yours here, if you had any degree of confidence in yourself or your position here you would not be showing the incredible levels of sniveling cowardice you currently are. You're a hypocrite and it's there for all to see.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:13:06 AM
Angelo the 2017-2018 comparison has been compared a number of times now. Ignoring that makes you look like a p***k. Your comparison doesn't hold water.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:15:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:05:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:01:59 AM
Not busy today, so will get the popcorn ready for this explosion!

Definite signs of Schizophrenia

Still no sign of your outrage at the deaths of the elderly in 17/18???

You going to call me Harold Shipman again and accuse me of wanting to suffocate elderly people. That's the kind of level of nastiness and viciousness we have come to expect from you. Wee snide jokes about serial killers and murdering elderly as you justify elderly people being sent to their slaughter during the winter flu season. I'm glad you find it so funny.

Ok, I know your not well, so I'll explain it one more time, If you look down the front page of the Non GAA discussion page, there is a thread called Aussie Flu, was started in 2018, Jan..

It talks about the lad from Tyrone, I think young family and he died of the strain that was about at the time, was a very strong strain which caused a lot of deaths worldwide, keep up..

So, someone started a thread about it called Aussie flu, and boarders discussed it. Now it didn't have a 1000 pages as you or Seaney were not on the internet then and ordinary discussions were had

Get your wife to teach you the difference between you're and your.

Anyway, bump a few of your contributions for us so where you called for lockdown and told us how much of a disgrace it was what happened. It's your reputation here, if you can't defend it then obviously there's nothing worth defending and you are indeed the worst type of sanctimonious hypocrite.

2,101 deaths and you justified them, now a few years later you are up on your moral high horse and joking about Harold Shipman and suffocating the elderly with pillows

You're a charming piece of work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:18:05 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:13:06 AM
Angelo the 2017-2018 comparison has been compared a number of times now. Ignoring that makes you look like a p***k. Your comparison doesn't hold water.

I'm not the one who has ignored it.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 without even the bat of an eyelid. Were you looking for lockdowns back then. Given that we are led to believe Lockdowns got rid of seasonal flu this year, think of all the lives we could have saved but you guys justify those losses of life but insist we have to lockdown now to save lives. 50k excess deaths in the UK during that winter flu season

If you can't see the contradictions in that then God help you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:22:56 AM
I've posted already why your comparisons are illogical. You can decide not to accept that. That's down to you. I won't be forcing you to, as you just want to continually ignore why the comparisons are not valid.

But I'll leave it with you, as the points have all been made and rehashing them for you just gives you oxygen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:22:56 AM
I've posted already why your comparisons are illogical. You can decide not to accept that. That's down to you. I won't be forcing you to, as you just want to continually ignore why the comparisons are not valid.

But I'll leave it with you, as the points have all been made and rehashing them for you just gives you oxygen.

Illogical? So at the end of the day, the amount of lives lost is irrelevant?

Surely that should be the most important factor of all of this. We have yet to reach that level of loss of life in a single month and you're calling it illogical.

That to me is utterly illogical.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:27:57 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:15:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:05:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:01:59 AM
Not busy today, so will get the popcorn ready for this explosion!

Definite signs of Schizophrenia

Still no sign of your outrage at the deaths of the elderly in 17/18???

You going to call me Harold Shipman again and accuse me of wanting to suffocate elderly people. That's the kind of level of nastiness and viciousness we have come to expect from you. Wee snide jokes about serial killers and murdering elderly as you justify elderly people being sent to their slaughter during the winter flu season. I'm glad you find it so funny.

Ok, I know your not well, so I'll explain it one more time, If you look down the front page of the Non GAA discussion page, there is a thread called Aussie Flu, was started in 2018, Jan..

It talks about the lad from Tyrone, I think young family and he died of the strain that was about at the time, was a very strong strain which caused a lot of deaths worldwide, keep up..

So, someone started a thread about it called Aussie flu, and boarders discussed it. Now it didn't have a 1000 pages as you or Seaney were not on the internet then and ordinary discussions were had

Get your wife to teach you the difference between you're and your.

Anyway, bump a few of your contributions for us so where you called for lockdown and told us how much of a disgrace it was what happened. It's your reputation here, if you can't defend it then obviously there's nothing worth defending and you are indeed the worst type of sanctimonious hypocrite.

2,101 deaths and you justified them, now a few years later you are up on your moral high horse and joking about Harold Shipman and suffocating the elderly with pillows

You're a charming piece of work.

Is that it? You asked for evidence about people discussing the flu of 2018, tick.

There's no joking about you killing off the elderly,  that's what you said is better, rather have someone live on in their 20's than someone who's lived life? What complete horseshit!!

Then have the brass neck and worry about the flu of 2018? You'd have killed off the elderly then too
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:32:44 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:27:57 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:15:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:05:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:01:59 AM
Not busy today, so will get the popcorn ready for this explosion!

Definite signs of Schizophrenia

Still no sign of your outrage at the deaths of the elderly in 17/18???

You going to call me Harold Shipman again and accuse me of wanting to suffocate elderly people. That's the kind of level of nastiness and viciousness we have come to expect from you. Wee snide jokes about serial killers and murdering elderly as you justify elderly people being sent to their slaughter during the winter flu season. I'm glad you find it so funny.

Ok, I know your not well, so I'll explain it one more time, If you look down the front page of the Non GAA discussion page, there is a thread called Aussie Flu, was started in 2018, Jan..

It talks about the lad from Tyrone, I think young family and he died of the strain that was about at the time, was a very strong strain which caused a lot of deaths worldwide, keep up..

So, someone started a thread about it called Aussie flu, and boarders discussed it. Now it didn't have a 1000 pages as you or Seaney were not on the internet then and ordinary discussions were had

Get your wife to teach you the difference between you're and your.

Anyway, bump a few of your contributions for us so where you called for lockdown and told us how much of a disgrace it was what happened. It's your reputation here, if you can't defend it then obviously there's nothing worth defending and you are indeed the worst type of sanctimonious hypocrite.

2,101 deaths and you justified them, now a few years later you are up on your moral high horse and joking about Harold Shipman and suffocating the elderly with pillows

You're a charming piece of work.

Is that it? You asked for evidence about people discussing the flu of 2018, tick.

There's no joking about you killing off the elderly,  that's what you said is better, rather have someone live on in their 20's than someone who's lived life? What complete horseshit!!

Then have the brass neck and worry about the flu of 2018? You'd have killed off the elderly then too

I asked for evidence and got an anecdote. It's your reputation here, if you can't put up your posts then I suppose that just proves my point. The floor is yours.

You joked about killing off the elderly and Harold Shipman, another platform for you to take back those comments should you wish. I of course never said what you're saying, you might need your wife to give you extra grinds as your comprehension levels are deplorable.

You seem fit of justify the volumes of death during the Winter flu death and take to joke about Harold Shimpan and suffocating the elderly while falsely accusing other posters of wanting the elderly to die. I don't want anyone to die and never said that, I did say that given the choice between saving an elderly life and a young life I would save the life that hasn't been lived yet. Presumably given your objection to that you'd like to kill the younger person (applying your skewed rationale).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:33:44 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:22:56 AM
I've posted already why your comparisons are illogical. You can decide not to accept that. That's down to you. I won't be forcing you to, as you just want to continually ignore why the comparisons are not valid.

But I'll leave it with you, as the points have all been made and rehashing them for you just gives you oxygen.

Illogical? So at the end of the day, the amount of lives lost is irrelevant?

Surely that should be the most important factor of all of this. We have yet to reach that level of loss of life and you're calling it illogical.

That to me is utterly illogical.

That's grand. We'll obviously agree to differ. I've explained why I think the comparisons aren't relevant. You're entitled to think different.   Other people can make up their minds as well, based on the what has been said. Some will agree that the constant comparison with 2017 is rubbish, others might think it valid. But everything that can be said about it, has been now. But just be aware the constant referring back to 2017/2018 carries no water with a lot of people it seems.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:44:09 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:33:44 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:22:56 AM
I've posted already why your comparisons are illogical. You can decide not to accept that. That's down to you. I won't be forcing you to, as you just want to continually ignore why the comparisons are not valid.

But I'll leave it with you, as the points have all been made and rehashing them for you just gives you oxygen.

Illogical? So at the end of the day, the amount of lives lost is irrelevant?

Surely that should be the most important factor of all of this. We have yet to reach that level of loss of life and you're calling it illogical.

That to me is utterly illogical.

That's grand. We'll obviously agree to differ. I've explained why I think the comparisons aren't relevant. You're entitled to think different.   Other people can make up their minds as well, based on the what has been said. Some will agree that the constant comparison with 2017 is rubbish, others might think it valid. But everything that can be said about it, has been now. But just be aware the constant referring back to 2017/2018 carries no water with a lot of people it seems.

That's fine. I do see it differently though but I appreciate you can accept that and didn't find the the need to falsely accuse me of wanting to murder elderly people.

But there does need to be an acknowledgement we as a society have no problems sending hundreds of people off to their grave every winter through the flu season. Now that we are led to believe winter flu has been eradicated this year, will we now use lockdowns on an annual basis to save lives from flu or what levels of death do we deem acceptable?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:45:30 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:32:44 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:27:57 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:15:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:05:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:01:59 AM
Not busy today, so will get the popcorn ready for this explosion!

Definite signs of Schizophrenia

Still no sign of your outrage at the deaths of the elderly in 17/18???

You going to call me Harold Shipman again and accuse me of wanting to suffocate elderly people. That's the kind of level of nastiness and viciousness we have come to expect from you. Wee snide jokes about serial killers and murdering elderly as you justify elderly people being sent to their slaughter during the winter flu season. I'm glad you find it so funny.

Ok, I know your not well, so I'll explain it one more time, If you look down the front page of the Non GAA discussion page, there is a thread called Aussie Flu, was started in 2018, Jan..

It talks about the lad from Tyrone, I think young family and he died of the strain that was about at the time, was a very strong strain which caused a lot of deaths worldwide, keep up..

So, someone started a thread about it called Aussie flu, and boarders discussed it. Now it didn't have a 1000 pages as you or Seaney were not on the internet then and ordinary discussions were had

Get your wife to teach you the difference between you're and your.

Anyway, bump a few of your contributions for us so where you called for lockdown and told us how much of a disgrace it was what happened. It's your reputation here, if you can't defend it then obviously there's nothing worth defending and you are indeed the worst type of sanctimonious hypocrite.

2,101 deaths and you justified them, now a few years later you are up on your moral high horse and joking about Harold Shipman and suffocating the elderly with pillows

You're a charming piece of work.

Is that it? You asked for evidence about people discussing the flu of 2018, tick.

There's no joking about you killing off the elderly,  that's what you said is better, rather have someone live on in their 20's than someone who's lived life? What complete horseshit!!

Then have the brass neck and worry about the flu of 2018? You'd have killed off the elderly then too

I asked for evidence and got an anecdote. It's your reputation here, if you can't put up your posts then I suppose that just proves my point. The floor is yours.

You joked about killing off the elderly and Harold Shipman, another platform for you to take back those comments should you wish. I of course never said what you're saying, you might need your wife to give you extra grinds as your comprehension levels are deplorable.

You seem fit of justify the volumes of death during the Winter flu death and take to joke about Harold Shimpan and suffocating the elderly while falsely accusing other posters of wanting the elderly to die. I don't want anyone to die and never said that, I did say that given the choice between saving an elderly life and a young life I would save the life that hasn't been lived yet. Presumably given your objection to that you'd like to kill the younger person (applying your skewed rationale).

So its down to the basics of comprehension?  ;D 

I didn't engage in that question, you did, and you nailed your colours to the mast, kill the old. Hopefully your not involved with working in care-homes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:49:37 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:45:30 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:32:44 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:27:57 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:15:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:05:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:01:59 AM
Not busy today, so will get the popcorn ready for this explosion!

Definite signs of Schizophrenia

Still no sign of your outrage at the deaths of the elderly in 17/18???

You going to call me Harold Shipman again and accuse me of wanting to suffocate elderly people. That's the kind of level of nastiness and viciousness we have come to expect from you. Wee snide jokes about serial killers and murdering elderly as you justify elderly people being sent to their slaughter during the winter flu season. I'm glad you find it so funny.

Ok, I know your not well, so I'll explain it one more time, If you look down the front page of the Non GAA discussion page, there is a thread called Aussie Flu, was started in 2018, Jan..

It talks about the lad from Tyrone, I think young family and he died of the strain that was about at the time, was a very strong strain which caused a lot of deaths worldwide, keep up..

So, someone started a thread about it called Aussie flu, and boarders discussed it. Now it didn't have a 1000 pages as you or Seaney were not on the internet then and ordinary discussions were had

Get your wife to teach you the difference between you're and your.

Anyway, bump a few of your contributions for us so where you called for lockdown and told us how much of a disgrace it was what happened. It's your reputation here, if you can't defend it then obviously there's nothing worth defending and you are indeed the worst type of sanctimonious hypocrite.

2,101 deaths and you justified them, now a few years later you are up on your moral high horse and joking about Harold Shipman and suffocating the elderly with pillows

You're a charming piece of work.

Is that it? You asked for evidence about people discussing the flu of 2018, tick.

There's no joking about you killing off the elderly,  that's what you said is better, rather have someone live on in their 20's than someone who's lived life? What complete horseshit!!

Then have the brass neck and worry about the flu of 2018? You'd have killed off the elderly then too

I asked for evidence and got an anecdote. It's your reputation here, if you can't put up your posts then I suppose that just proves my point. The floor is yours.

You joked about killing off the elderly and Harold Shipman, another platform for you to take back those comments should you wish. I of course never said what you're saying, you might need your wife to give you extra grinds as your comprehension levels are deplorable.

You seem fit of justify the volumes of death during the Winter flu death and take to joke about Harold Shimpan and suffocating the elderly while falsely accusing other posters of wanting the elderly to die. I don't want anyone to die and never said that, I did say that given the choice between saving an elderly life and a young life I would save the life that hasn't been lived yet. Presumably given your objection to that you'd like to kill the younger person (applying your skewed rationale).

So its down to the basics of comprehension?  ;D 

I didn't engage in that question, you did, and you nailed your colours to the mast, kill the old. Hopefully your not involved with working in care-homes

Well seeing as you're stating I said something which I never did, it's either that your comprehension skills are appalling or you deliberately tried to associate comments to me which you knowingly know were not true. You then followed up these comments with your hilarious jokes about Harold Shipman and suffocating the elderly with a pillow. A real charmer as I said.

It's not that you didn't engage in the question, it's that you are bound by your own contradictions. You have a platform here to clarify things but as is your nature you neither have the decency, manners or courage to do so. Going by your avatar and contributions on here, I'd put your mental age down as 14.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:59:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:44:09 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:33:44 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:22:56 AM
I've posted already why your comparisons are illogical. You can decide not to accept that. That's down to you. I won't be forcing you to, as you just want to continually ignore why the comparisons are not valid.

But I'll leave it with you, as the points have all been made and rehashing them for you just gives you oxygen.

Illogical? So at the end of the day, the amount of lives lost is irrelevant?

Surely that should be the most important factor of all of this. We have yet to reach that level of loss of life and you're calling it illogical.

That to me is utterly illogical.

That's grand. We'll obviously agree to differ. I've explained why I think the comparisons aren't relevant. You're entitled to think different.   Other people can make up their minds as well, based on the what has been said. Some will agree that the constant comparison with 2017 is rubbish, others might think it valid. But everything that can be said about it, has been now. But just be aware the constant referring back to 2017/2018 carries no water with a lot of people it seems.

That's fine. I do see it differently though but I appreciate you can accept that and didn't find the the need to falsely accuse me of wanting to murder elderly people.

But there does need to be an acknowledgement we as a society have no problems sending hundreds of people off to their grave every winter through the flu season. Now that we are led to believe winter flu has been eradicated this year, will we now use lockdowns on an annual basis to save lives from flu or what levels of death do we deem acceptable?

Flu kills roughly 13-17K a year in the UK. If Covid can be managed by the vaccine to this level, then I think requirements for stringent lockdowns would not be required.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 13, 2021, 11:02:46 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:59:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:44:09 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:33:44 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:22:56 AM
I've posted already why your comparisons are illogical. You can decide not to accept that. That's down to you. I won't be forcing you to, as you just want to continually ignore why the comparisons are not valid.

But I'll leave it with you, as the points have all been made and rehashing them for you just gives you oxygen.

Illogical? So at the end of the day, the amount of lives lost is irrelevant?

Surely that should be the most important factor of all of this. We have yet to reach that level of loss of life and you're calling it illogical.

That to me is utterly illogical.

That's grand. We'll obviously agree to differ. I've explained why I think the comparisons aren't relevant. You're entitled to think different.   Other people can make up their minds as well, based on the what has been said. Some will agree that the constant comparison with 2017 is rubbish, others might think it valid. But everything that can be said about it, has been now. But just be aware the constant referring back to 2017/2018 carries no water with a lot of people it seems.

That's fine. I do see it differently though but I appreciate you can accept that and didn't find the the need to falsely accuse me of wanting to murder elderly people.

But there does need to be an acknowledgement we as a society have no problems sending hundreds of people off to their grave every winter through the flu season. Now that we are led to believe winter flu has been eradicated this year, will we now use lockdowns on an annual basis to save lives from flu or what levels of death do we deem acceptable?

Flu kills roughly 13-17K a year in the UK. If Covid can be managed by the vaccine to this level, then I think requirements for stringent lockdowns would not be required.

Chris Witty alluding to this the other day on UK govt breifing that they will have to start the accepeble level of covid deatha conversation for each year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 11:05:57 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:59:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:44:09 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:33:44 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:22:56 AM
I've posted already why your comparisons are illogical. You can decide not to accept that. That's down to you. I won't be forcing you to, as you just want to continually ignore why the comparisons are not valid.

But I'll leave it with you, as the points have all been made and rehashing them for you just gives you oxygen.

Illogical? So at the end of the day, the amount of lives lost is irrelevant?

Surely that should be the most important factor of all of this. We have yet to reach that level of loss of life and you're calling it illogical.

That to me is utterly illogical.

That's grand. We'll obviously agree to differ. I've explained why I think the comparisons aren't relevant. You're entitled to think different.   Other people can make up their minds as well, based on the what has been said. Some will agree that the constant comparison with 2017 is rubbish, others might think it valid. But everything that can be said about it, has been now. But just be aware the constant referring back to 2017/2018 carries no water with a lot of people it seems.

That's fine. I do see it differently though but I appreciate you can accept that and didn't find the the need to falsely accuse me of wanting to murder elderly people.

But there does need to be an acknowledgement we as a society have no problems sending hundreds of people off to their grave every winter through the flu season. Now that we are led to believe winter flu has been eradicated this year, will we now use lockdowns on an annual basis to save lives from flu or what levels of death do we deem acceptable?

Flu kills roughly 13-17K a year in the UK. If Covid can be managed by the vaccine to this level, then I think requirements for stringent lockdowns would not be required.

I don't think that's a valid comparison to Covid.

We had excess deaths of 50k in the winter flu season of 17/18.

The reason it's not a valid comparison is that we don't carry out mass testing for flu and we don't classify deaths from flu in the same manner as we do with deaths from Covid. Positive test for Covid = Covid death regardless of whether it was the reason the person died or not. If we did those flu deaths would probably rise in multiples.

That's a very important distinction. Excess deaths is probably the fairest measure so I'm intrigued as to what the death figures will be like between Dec-Mar 17/18 and Dec-Mar 20/21.

I struggle to comprehend how we could accept 50k excess deaths in 2017/18 during the winter flu season without batting an eyelid and have all this mass hysteria and draconian restrictions and lockdowns over Covid. It's a contradiction.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 11:08:06 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:49:37 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:45:30 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:32:44 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:27:57 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:15:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:05:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 10:01:59 AM
Not busy today, so will get the popcorn ready for this explosion!

Definite signs of Schizophrenia

Still no sign of your outrage at the deaths of the elderly in 17/18???

You going to call me Harold Shipman again and accuse me of wanting to suffocate elderly people. That's the kind of level of nastiness and viciousness we have come to expect from you. Wee snide jokes about serial killers and murdering elderly as you justify elderly people being sent to their slaughter during the winter flu season. I'm glad you find it so funny.

Ok, I know your not well, so I'll explain it one more time, If you look down the front page of the Non GAA discussion page, there is a thread called Aussie Flu, was started in 2018, Jan..

It talks about the lad from Tyrone, I think young family and he died of the strain that was about at the time, was a very strong strain which caused a lot of deaths worldwide, keep up..

So, someone started a thread about it called Aussie flu, and boarders discussed it. Now it didn't have a 1000 pages as you or Seaney were not on the internet then and ordinary discussions were had

Get your wife to teach you the difference between you're and your.

Anyway, bump a few of your contributions for us so where you called for lockdown and told us how much of a disgrace it was what happened. It's your reputation here, if you can't defend it then obviously there's nothing worth defending and you are indeed the worst type of sanctimonious hypocrite.

2,101 deaths and you justified them, now a few years later you are up on your moral high horse and joking about Harold Shipman and suffocating the elderly with pillows

You're a charming piece of work.

Is that it? You asked for evidence about people discussing the flu of 2018, tick.

There's no joking about you killing off the elderly,  that's what you said is better, rather have someone live on in their 20's than someone who's lived life? What complete horseshit!!

Then have the brass neck and worry about the flu of 2018? You'd have killed off the elderly then too

I asked for evidence and got an anecdote. It's your reputation here, if you can't put up your posts then I suppose that just proves my point. The floor is yours.

You joked about killing off the elderly and Harold Shipman, another platform for you to take back those comments should you wish. I of course never said what you're saying, you might need your wife to give you extra grinds as your comprehension levels are deplorable.

You seem fit of justify the volumes of death during the Winter flu death and take to joke about Harold Shimpan and suffocating the elderly while falsely accusing other posters of wanting the elderly to die. I don't want anyone to die and never said that, I did say that given the choice between saving an elderly life and a young life I would save the life that hasn't been lived yet. Presumably given your objection to that you'd like to kill the younger person (applying your skewed rationale).

So its down to the basics of comprehension?  ;D 

I didn't engage in that question, you did, and you nailed your colours to the mast, kill the old. Hopefully your not involved with working in care-homes

Well seeing as you're stating I said something which I never did, it's either that your comprehension skills are appalling or you deliberately tried to associate comments to me which you knowingly know were not true. You then followed up these comments with your hilarious jokes about Harold Shipman and suffocating the elderly with a pillow. A real charmer as I said.

It's not that you didn't engage in the question, it's that you are bound by your own contradictions. You have a platform here to clarify things but as is your nature you neither have the decency, manners or courage to do so. Going by your avatar and contributions on here, I'd put your mental age down as 14.

Yes, so we've jumped from poor comprehension skills to me being 14.. Really clutching at straws now.

Tell me Angelo, did you read the thread on the Aussie flu? It's on the page.

I know your stand point on how you see the elderly in all of this, they've lived a life, let someone young have their bed instead
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 11:13:41 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 11:05:57 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:59:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:44:09 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:33:44 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:22:56 AM
I've posted already why your comparisons are illogical. You can decide not to accept that. That's down to you. I won't be forcing you to, as you just want to continually ignore why the comparisons are not valid.

But I'll leave it with you, as the points have all been made and rehashing them for you just gives you oxygen.

Illogical? So at the end of the day, the amount of lives lost is irrelevant?

Surely that should be the most important factor of all of this. We have yet to reach that level of loss of life and you're calling it illogical.

That to me is utterly illogical.

That's grand. We'll obviously agree to differ. I've explained why I think the comparisons aren't relevant. You're entitled to think different.   Other people can make up their minds as well, based on the what has been said. Some will agree that the constant comparison with 2017 is rubbish, others might think it valid. But everything that can be said about it, has been now. But just be aware the constant referring back to 2017/2018 carries no water with a lot of people it seems.

That's fine. I do see it differently though but I appreciate you can accept that and didn't find the the need to falsely accuse me of wanting to murder elderly people.

But there does need to be an acknowledgement we as a society have no problems sending hundreds of people off to their grave every winter through the flu season. Now that we are led to believe winter flu has been eradicated this year, will we now use lockdowns on an annual basis to save lives from flu or what levels of death do we deem acceptable?

Flu kills roughly 13-17K a year in the UK. If Covid can be managed by the vaccine to this level, then I think requirements for stringent lockdowns would not be required.

I don't think that's a valid comparison to Covid.

We had excess deaths of 50k in the winter flu season of 17/18.

The reason it's not a valid comparison is that we don't carry out mass testing for flu and we don't classify deaths from flu in the same manner as we do with deaths from Covid. Positive test for Covid = Covid death regardless of whether it was the reason the person died or not. If we did those flu deaths would probably rise in multiples.

That's a very important distinction. Excess deaths is probably the fairest measure so I'm intrigued as to wath the death figures will be like between Dec-Mar 17/18 and Dec-Mar 20/21.

Fair enough. I do. We've discussed the excess deaths thing previously so again, I'll not go down that route. Same for the classification of deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Snapchap on January 13, 2021, 11:14:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
46 dead in the Republic is the latest daily figure and I fear my father will be among these figures in the near future, he is on Day 10 and now has pneumonia, is being fed through a tube in his nose and fluids through IV, I find it hard to see him make it through to be honest

He is afraid and alone and my heart is breaking over it, I spent nearly ten months doing everything I could to keep Covid out, I haven't been in a pub since the start of March, I succeeded in keeping it out but he got it when he had go to hospital for a treatable non-Covid medical problem

Sorry to hear this Sid. I'll be saying a prayer for him and for your family.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on January 13, 2021, 11:26:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 10:51:53 PM

46 dead in the Republic is the latest daily figure and I fear my father will be among these figures in the near future, he is on Day 10 and now has pneumonia, is being fed through a tube in his nose and fluids through IV, I find it hard to see him make it through to be honest

He is afraid and alone and my heart is breaking over it, I spent nearly ten months doing everything I could to keep Covid out, I haven't been in a pub since the start of March, I succeeded in keeping it out but he got it when he had go to hospital for a treatable non-Covid medical problem

Hope your father pulls through Sid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on January 13, 2021, 11:50:20 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on January 13, 2021, 11:26:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 10:51:53 PM

46 dead in the Republic is the latest daily figure and I fear my father will be among these figures in the near future, he is on Day 10 and now has pneumonia, is being fed through a tube in his nose and fluids through IV, I find it hard to see him make it through to be honest

He is afraid and alone and my heart is breaking over it, I spent nearly ten months doing everything I could to keep Covid out, I haven't been in a pub since the start of March, I succeeded in keeping it out but he got it when he had go to hospital for a treatable non-Covid medical problem

Hope your father pulls through Sid

Very sorry to hear this Sid, I hope and pray your father pulls through.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 13, 2021, 11:51:43 AM
Best wishes to your dad Sid.

Meanwhile imagine if our Government had gone Angelo's way instead if the WHO way.....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40206080.html

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 13, 2021, 12:20:49 PM
Best wishes Sid to you and your Father.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 12:39:44 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 11:13:41 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 11:05:57 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:59:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:44:09 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:33:44 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 10:22:56 AM
I've posted already why your comparisons are illogical. You can decide not to accept that. That's down to you. I won't be forcing you to, as you just want to continually ignore why the comparisons are not valid.

But I'll leave it with you, as the points have all been made and rehashing them for you just gives you oxygen.

Illogical? So at the end of the day, the amount of lives lost is irrelevant?

Surely that should be the most important factor of all of this. We have yet to reach that level of loss of life and you're calling it illogical.

That to me is utterly illogical.

That's grand. We'll obviously agree to differ. I've explained why I think the comparisons aren't relevant. You're entitled to think different.   Other people can make up their minds as well, based on the what has been said. Some will agree that the constant comparison with 2017 is rubbish, others might think it valid. But everything that can be said about it, has been now. But just be aware the constant referring back to 2017/2018 carries no water with a lot of people it seems.

That's fine. I do see it differently though but I appreciate you can accept that and didn't find the the need to falsely accuse me of wanting to murder elderly people.

But there does need to be an acknowledgement we as a society have no problems sending hundreds of people off to their grave every winter through the flu season. Now that we are led to believe winter flu has been eradicated this year, will we now use lockdowns on an annual basis to save lives from flu or what levels of death do we deem acceptable?

Flu kills roughly 13-17K a year in the UK. If Covid can be managed by the vaccine to this level, then I think requirements for stringent lockdowns would not be required.

I don't think that's a valid comparison to Covid.

We had excess deaths of 50k in the winter flu season of 17/18.

The reason it's not a valid comparison is that we don't carry out mass testing for flu and we don't classify deaths from flu in the same manner as we do with deaths from Covid. Positive test for Covid = Covid death regardless of whether it was the reason the person died or not. If we did those flu deaths would probably rise in multiples.

That's a very important distinction. Excess deaths is probably the fairest measure so I'm intrigued as to wath the death figures will be like between Dec-Mar 17/18 and Dec-Mar 20/21.

Fair enough. I do. We've discussed the excess deaths thing previously so again, I'll not go down that route. Same for the classification of deaths.

You don't want to go down this road so I'll leave at this.

How can it be a valid comparison when in the O6 for example we have conducted over 1m Covid tests when we don't test for flu.

How can it be a valid comparison where we automatically add a death in as a result of Covid merely because a positive case of Covid was present at the time of death. We record Covid deaths in arbitrary fashion, regardless of whether it was the cause of death or not, once it is present it is attributed as such. This is acknowledged as such.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 12:42:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2021, 11:51:43 AM
Best wishes to your dad Sid.

Meanwhile imagine if our Government had gone Angelo's way instead if the WHO way.....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40206080.html

Do you have the same outrage every winter when you have 700 waiting on hospital beds in the free state?

Were you crying out for lockdowns then?

Roughly 12 months ago, before Covid had even hit these shores the dysfunctional nature of your health service was apparent.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/numbers-on-hospital-trolleys-reach-highest-level-this-year-say-nurses-1.4073073

Maybe take that up with your government and they blood they have on their hands every winter.

Drop the facade, you have no morals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 12:51:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 12:42:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2021, 11:51:43 AM
Best wishes to your dad Sid.

Meanwhile imagine if our Government had gone Angelo's way instead if the WHO way.....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40206080.html

Do you have the same outrage every winter when you have 700 waiting on hospital beds in the free state?

Were you crying out for lockdowns then?

Roughly 12 months ago, before Covid had even hit these shores the dysfunctional nature of your health service was apparent.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/numbers-on-hospital-trolleys-reach-highest-level-this-year-say-nurses-1.4073073

Maybe take that up with your government and they blood they have on their hands every winter.

Drop the facade, you have no morals.

Comprehension?  ;D

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on January 13, 2021, 01:01:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 12:51:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 12:42:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2021, 11:51:43 AM
Best wishes to your dad Sid.

Meanwhile imagine if our Government had gone Angelo's way instead if the WHO way.....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40206080.html

Do you have the same outrage every winter when you have 700 waiting on hospital beds in the free state?

Were you crying out for lockdowns then?

Roughly 12 months ago, before Covid had even hit these shores the dysfunctional nature of your health service was apparent.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/numbers-on-hospital-trolleys-reach-highest-level-this-year-say-nurses-1.4073073

Maybe take that up with your government and they blood they have on their hands every winter.

Drop the facade, you have no morals.

Comprehension?  ;D

Have you no work to be getting on with Millhouse?

His mind wont be changed - best to let him hammer away until there is no one else left to argue with
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 01:08:43 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 13, 2021, 01:01:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 12:51:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 12:42:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2021, 11:51:43 AM
Best wishes to your dad Sid.

Meanwhile imagine if our Government had gone Angelo's way instead if the WHO way.....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40206080.html

Do you have the same outrage every winter when you have 700 waiting on hospital beds in the free state?

Were you crying out for lockdowns then?

Roughly 12 months ago, before Covid had even hit these shores the dysfunctional nature of your health service was apparent.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/numbers-on-hospital-trolleys-reach-highest-level-this-year-say-nurses-1.4073073

Maybe take that up with your government and they blood they have on their hands every winter.

Drop the facade, you have no morals.

Comprehension?  ;D

Have you no work to be getting on with Millhouse?

His mind wont be changed - best to let him hammer away until there is no one else left to argue with

Very little in fairness, this lockdown, unlike the last one is hitting our sector harder than before.

Sooner we are back up and running the better.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on January 13, 2021, 02:18:39 PM
Hope your father pulls through Sid. I can't begin to imagine dealing with that in these circumstances. 

I find it more than a bit disturbing that the Covid deniers cannot set aside their issues with the Covid response and empathise for those suffering with Covid and their families who really do not want to hear that it is no different to the flu, to claim that the hospitals are really empty and that the vaccine will do more harm than good.

I suspect that mental illness is a feature among some of the Covid deniers and the anti-vax lot, ranging from depression and anxiety to narcissism.  I'm not taring all with one brush, but the level of aggression, anger, lack of empathy and obsession that you see from these people would make you wonder. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 13, 2021, 02:21:54 PM
Best wishes to your father Sid. Hope he makes it through this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Substandard on January 13, 2021, 02:47:48 PM
Best of luck to your Dad, Sid.  Hope things will go well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 13, 2021, 02:55:07 PM
Best wishes to your Father Sid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 03:00:31 PM
Quote from: APM on January 13, 2021, 02:18:39 PM
Hope your father pulls through Sid. I can't begin to imagine dealing with that in these circumstances. 

I find it more than a bit disturbing that the Covid deniers cannot set aside their issues with the Covid response and empathise for those suffering with Covid and their families who really do not want to hear that it is no different to the flu, to claim that the hospitals are really empty and that the vaccine will do more harm than good.

I suspect that mental illness is a feature among some of the Covid deniers and the anti-vax lot, ranging from depression and anxiety to narcissism.  I'm not taring all with one brush, but the level of aggression, anger, lack of empathy and obsession that you see from these people would make you wonder.

I'm not a Covid denier. It's real.

Maybe it's you that's a flu denier though as you seem to be justifying record deaths in January 2018. Should we have locked down then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: South Laois man on January 13, 2021, 03:24:34 PM
I haven't posted here for a while but have been checking in from time to time. One observation is Angelotends to repeat the same bull everyday on this thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 13, 2021, 03:28:17 PM
Looking for some help here... Would anyone know what the excess deaths were for the 17/18 season? Thanks in advance
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 03:49:44 PM
Quote from: South Laois man on January 13, 2021, 03:24:34 PM
I haven't posted here for a while but have been checking in from time to time. One observation is Angelotends to repeat the same bull everyday on this thread.

It's not bull. It's fact and some people have a problem with their double standards.

The hysteria and outrage is hard to understand now when it was not there during the winter flu season of 17/18 and you have to do some mental gymnastics and betray any ounce of logic and rationale to do that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 03:54:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 03:49:44 PM
Quote from: South Laois man on January 13, 2021, 03:24:34 PM
I haven't posted here for a while but have been checking in from time to time. One observation is Angelotends to repeat the same bull everyday on this thread.

It's not bull. It's fact and some people have a problem with their double standards.

The hysteria and outrage is hard to understand now when it was not there during the winter flu season of 17/18 and you have to do some mental gymnastics and betray any ounce of logic and rationale to do that.

As discussed other people don't see the double standards you are seeing because they think the comparisons are BS. Reasons have been supplied for why. Again, you don't agree, but that is why there seems to be a substantial amount of posters who think you are posting bullsh!t. Your arguments obviously haven't won them over.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 03:58:04 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 03:54:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 03:49:44 PM
Quote from: South Laois man on January 13, 2021, 03:24:34 PM
I haven't posted here for a while but have been checking in from time to time. One observation is Angelotends to repeat the same bull everyday on this thread.

It's not bull. It's fact and some people have a problem with their double standards.

The hysteria and outrage is hard to understand now when it was not there during the winter flu season of 17/18 and you have to do some mental gymnastics and betray any ounce of logic and rationale to do that.

As discussed other people don't see the double standards you are seeing because they think the comparisons are BS. Reasons have been supplied for why. Again, you don't agree, but that is why there seems to be a substantial amount of posters who think you are posting bullsh!t. Your arguments obviously haven't won them over.

They should be able to debate that but they can't. Ask yourself why it was ok for record death totals in Jan 2018 with minimal coverage.

I have substantiated my post with figures and facts.

Record death totals in Jan 2018 and nobody batted any eyelid. I haven't had one poster who has been able to tackle that one yet, it's easier for them to throw outrageous slurs and insults rather than frame an effective argument.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 04:05:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 03:58:04 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 03:54:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 03:49:44 PM
Quote from: South Laois man on January 13, 2021, 03:24:34 PM
I haven't posted here for a while but have been checking in from time to time. One observation is Angelotends to repeat the same bull everyday on this thread.

It's not bull. It's fact and some people have a problem with their double standards.

The hysteria and outrage is hard to understand now when it was not there during the winter flu season of 17/18 and you have to do some mental gymnastics and betray any ounce of logic and rationale to do that.

As discussed other people don't see the double standards you are seeing because they think the comparisons are BS. Reasons have been supplied for why. Again, you don't agree, but that is why there seems to be a substantial amount of posters who think you are posting bullsh!t. Your arguments obviously haven't won them over.

They should be able to debate that but they can't. Ask yourself why it was ok for record death totals in Jan 2018 with minimal coverage.

I have substantiated my post with figures and facts.

Record death totals in Jan 2018 and nobody batted any eyelid. I haven't had one poster who has been able to tackle that one yet, it's easier for them to throw outrageous slurs and insults rather than frame an effective argument.
Yeah we've discussed this a number of times. It appears your arguments are just too weak and people don't seem to agree with you. But your still entitled to your own opinion tho.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 04:17:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 04:05:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 03:58:04 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 03:54:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 03:49:44 PM
Quote from: South Laois man on January 13, 2021, 03:24:34 PM
I haven't posted here for a while but have been checking in from time to time. One observation is Angelotends to repeat the same bull everyday on this thread.

It's not bull. It's fact and some people have a problem with their double standards.

The hysteria and outrage is hard to understand now when it was not there during the winter flu season of 17/18 and you have to do some mental gymnastics and betray any ounce of logic and rationale to do that.

As discussed other people don't see the double standards you are seeing because they think the comparisons are BS. Reasons have been supplied for why. Again, you don't agree, but that is why there seems to be a substantial amount of posters who think you are posting bullsh!t. Your arguments obviously haven't won them over.

They should be able to debate that but they can't. Ask yourself why it was ok for record death totals in Jan 2018 with minimal coverage.

I have substantiated my post with figures and facts.

Record death totals in Jan 2018 and nobody batted any eyelid. I haven't had one poster who has been able to tackle that one yet, it's easier for them to throw outrageous slurs and insults rather than frame an effective argument.
Yeah we've discussed this a number of times. It appears your arguments are just too weak and people don't seem to agree with you. But your still entitled to your own opinion tho.

My arguments aren't weak, it they were then posters would be able to counter them but instead they merely opt for insults.

Look at the on with Harold as a clear example of that.

When he was asked a couple of very pertinent questions, he avoided them on three occasions before reverting to insults.

How can you justify mass deaths in Jan 2018 but not now? It's a contradiction and it undermines anyone's credibility.

It's easier to fool someone than it is convince someone they have been fooled and a lot of you guys are very testy about looking silly. That is the nub of it. You can choose to actually debate the issue or throw insults about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 04:21:17 PM
I've been through this with you. Not doing it again. Suffice to say it seems most posters seem to agree with my view point on the comparison. But as I say, that doesn't impact your ability to hold that opinion. But it's why most posters think you are a bit wired.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 13, 2021, 04:22:08 PM
19 deaths today in the north.
1145 people testing positive.

The numbers are staggering.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 04:26:45 PM
It's the numbers and growth in "inpatients" that nearly the most staggering for me. I am a bit worried 19 or so deaths will be very low compared to what we might see in the next few weeks :(

I used to watch that board and it was at 200. It is at something like 870 odd now? It's growing a lot every day and I don't know where the capacity is going to come from at the current rate of growth. I am not even sure where it's currently coming from as it must be very very stretched.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 13, 2021, 04:30:38 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 04:26:45 PM
It's the numbers and growth in "inpatients" that nearly the most staggering for me. I am a bit worried 19 or so deaths will be very low compared to what we might see in the next few weeks :(

I used to watch that board and it was at 200. It is at something like 870 odd now? It's growing a lot every day and I don't know where the capacity is going to come from at the current rate of growth. I am not even sure where it's currently coming from as it must be very very stretched.

And you've a squad of our finest holding an anti-mask / anti-vaccine rally in Derry on Sat past.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 13, 2021, 04:32:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 04:26:45 PM
It's the numbers and growth in "inpatients" that nearly the most staggering for me. I am a bit worried 19 or so deaths will be very low compared to what we might see in the next few weeks :(

I used to watch that board and it was at 200. It is at something like 870 odd now? It's growing a lot every day and I don't know where the capacity is going to come from at the current rate of growth. I am not even sure where it's currently coming from as it must be very very stretched.

Unfortunately I think you could be right. The amount of people I know who are in hospital is just crazy. If that's is extrapolated across the country then the NHS must be a breaking point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 04:32:15 PM
Best of luck to your dad Sid, Galway hospital i believe had a big outbreak in it recently the same in Mayo both had low covid numbers before that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 04:37:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 13, 2021, 04:32:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 04:26:45 PM
It's the numbers and growth in "inpatients" that nearly the most staggering for me. I am a bit worried 19 or so deaths will be very low compared to what we might see in the next few weeks :(

I used to watch that board and it was at 200. It is at something like 870 odd now? It's growing a lot every day and I don't know where the capacity is going to come from at the current rate of growth. I am not even sure where it's currently coming from as it must be very very stretched.

Unfortunately I think you could be right. The amount of people I know who are in hospital is just crazy. If that's is extrapolated across the country then the NHS must be a breaking point.

Yeah it's bad times. We are moving to where Italy was round this time last year and it's very hard to see how it's going to be stopped.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on January 13, 2021, 04:59:06 PM
Best wishes to your father Sid - not an easy time
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 04:32:15 PM
Best of luck to your dad Sid, Galway hospital i believe had a big outbreak in it recently the same in Mayo both had low covid numbers before that.
There was a pretty severe outbreak among staff before Christmas

Personally speaking I've never understood how there could be any sort of foolproof plan to keep Covid out of hospitals and care homes - because of the way it spreads, the living conditions of the staff, and the nature of the care required in hospitals and care homes

The prevalence of Covid within hospitals and care homes is a function of the prevalence of the virus in the community

And that's why we can't live with the virus

The "shielding" proposed by the Great Barrington people was always bunkum
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on January 13, 2021, 05:17:16 PM
Quote from: South Laois man on January 13, 2021, 03:24:34 PM
I haven't posted here for a while but have been checking in from time to time. One observation is Angelotends to repeat the same bull everyday on this thread.

Not just this thread. Every thread unfortunate enough to attract his attention. The tl;dr for anyone without the time to wade through it all:

Angelo: I think x.

AN Other: Why do you think x, considering counter arguments a, b, and c?

Angelo: I think x. Idiot.

AN Other: Yeah, but a, b, and c all suggest that x can't be true. So why do you still think x?

Angelo: I've already answered that. Hypocrite.

AN Other: Where have you answered it, Angelo?

Angelo: It's not my fault you're too lazy to read back, wee man. Flu. Big pharma. January 2018. Nadal.

AN Other: But really Angelo, where have you answered it?

Angelo: Look, I'm not going to let you and your hysterical mob bully me out of my position. But here's where I answered it, coward:
Quote from: AngeloI think x

And the cycle repeats. And repeats. And repeats. And repeats. And repeats. And repeats. And repeats. And repeats. And repeats. And repeats...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 05:26:34 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 04:32:15 PM
Best of luck to your dad Sid, Galway hospital i believe had a big outbreak in it recently the same in Mayo both had low covid numbers before that.
There was a pretty severe outbreak among staff before Christmas

Personally speaking I've never understood how there could be any sort of foolproof plan to keep Covid out of hospitals and care homes - because of the way it spreads, the living conditions of the staff, and the nature of the care required in hospitals and care homes

The prevalence of Covid within hospitals and care homes is a function of the prevalence of the virus in the community

And that's why we can't live with the virus

The "shielding" proposed by the Great Barrington people was always bunkum

Yeah I would tend to agree with that.

Summed up well Ed lol.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on January 13, 2021, 05:27:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.
Very good post

46 dead in the Republic is the latest daily figure and I fear my father will be among these figures in the near future, he is on Day 10 and now has pneumonia, is being fed through a tube in his nose and fluids through IV, I find it hard to see him make it through to be honest

He is afraid and alone and my heart is breaking over it, I spent nearly ten months doing everything I could to keep Covid out, I haven't been in a pub since the start of March, I succeeded in keeping it out but he got it when he had go to hospital for a treatable non-Covid medical problem

Wake the f**k up Angelo and stop spreading shite, you know you're talking shite and so does everybody else, I honestly don't get your game

Really sorry to hear about your Dad Sid. I can't imagine what it must be like.
charlieTully's post is spot on IMO, and I think we all know Angelo is talking out his Arse and not worth conversing with. The unfortunate think is this sort of sh*t talk gets repeated and can result in more deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on January 13, 2021, 05:33:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 09:53:33 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 09:49:05 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 09:38:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 07:29:16 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.
Very good post

46 dead in the Republic is the latest daily figure and I fear my father will be among these figures in the near future, he is on Day 10 and now has pneumonia, is being fed through a tube in his nose and fluids through IV, I find it hard to see him make it through to be honest

He is afraid and alone and my heart is breaking over it, I spent nearly ten months doing everything I could to keep Covid out, I haven't been in a pub since the start of March, I succeeded in keeping it out but he got it when he had go to hospital for a treatable non-Covid medical problem

Wake the f**k up Angelo and stop spreading shite, you know you're talking shite and so does everybody else, I honestly don't get your game

So sorry to read that Sid :(

If Angelo is a real person and not a wum he's got a lot of issues going on. I don't know if lockdown hasn't been kind or what there but at this point it's just car crash stuff. The internet isn't good for troubled people sometimes :(

I've offered a rational argument at all times.

I have the likes of you put in a corner with your false equivalency. When I bring up the winter flu in 2017/18 when we had record deaths in Jan 2018, you have to entrench yourself in and justify that and when you do that it removes any credibility in what you argue for now.

All you are is a sanctimonious mouthpiece. Why was 2,101 deaths acceptable to you in Jan 2018 and if it wasn't show me the posts where you spoke out against it at the time.

I know I won't expect any engagement with you on this core point because you are complete and utter hypocrite with a large dose of sanctimony and virtue signalling thrown in, which we know for sure is a complete facade.

Where has Harold ran off to with my unanswered questions too? All I can see is a lot of cowards here who justify people dying from flu but thing the world should be thrown into chaos in case those with Covid have the same outcome and when you're pressed on it all you resort too are slurs and attributing ridiculous statements to me which have no correlation with what I said. Be a man for once.

You don't know the meaning of the word rational and you don't know the meaning of the word logical if you view yourself as rational and logical.

There's little point in engaging with you. You have been shown up to be irrational and illogical time and again but you just can't comprehend it.

You seriously need to take time away from the internet. It isn't good for you.

Irony alert.

You don't have a choice in the matter wee man, you are bound by your own contradictions and your innate cowardice and that's why you choose not to engage.

I defy you to prove me wrong, the floor is yours.

Show me your disgust at 2,101 deaths during the 17/18 winter flu season?? Bump a few posts you made outlining it because all I have seen from your are extraordinary double standards where you justify that level of death back then. You then support the theory that winter lockdown eradicated flu this winter. So when you apply that set of rationale you are openly saying that we cost hundreds of lives back then by not locking down and then you justify that.

You're a coward and not a very bright one.

Double Irony Alert.

Do you honestly think that everyone posts their every though on the GAABoard?  Are you seriously suggesting that because someone didn't post something on here that it means they don't have an opinion on it?
Example.....I've never posted on here that I think you must be from that Snowflake generation that has to post on social media every time they fart or else they risk not getting the likes that are so craved? No I haven't. But do I believe that? Well...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 06:00:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 04:32:15 PM
Best of luck to your dad Sid, Galway hospital i believe had a big outbreak in it recently the same in Mayo both had low covid numbers before that.
There was a pretty severe outbreak among staff before Christmas

Personally speaking I've never understood how there could be any sort of foolproof plan to keep Covid out of hospitals and care homes - because of the way it spreads, the living conditions of the staff, and the nature of the care required in hospitals and care homes

The prevalence of Covid within hospitals and care homes is a function of the prevalence of the virus in the community

And that's why we can't live with the virus

The "shielding" proposed by the Great Barrington people was always bunkum

There's no rhyme nor reason to it, mother in-law n hospital, needs open heart surgery, been in since 18th Dec,  the condition leaves her breathless, was in Antrim hospital then moved to the Royal, getting ready for operation last week, did few tests and a Covid test, positive!

Everything put on hold and all staff tested and she's in a side room so no one near her bar cleaner nurse doctor.

Everyone came back negative, crazy. In fairness to her, no symptoms and fingers crossed for your dad and he gets through it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 06:19:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 13, 2021, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 13, 2021, 04:32:15 PM
Best of luck to your dad Sid, Galway hospital i believe had a big outbreak in it recently the same in Mayo both had low covid numbers before that.
There was a pretty severe outbreak among staff before Christmas

Personally speaking I've never understood how there could be any sort of foolproof plan to keep Covid out of hospitals and care homes - because of the way it spreads, the living conditions of the staff, and the nature of the care required in hospitals and care homes

The prevalence of Covid within hospitals and care homes is a function of the prevalence of the virus in the community

And that's why we can't live with the virus

The "shielding" proposed by the Great Barrington people was always bunkum

If you want to protect nursing homes the first thing you have to do is control the spread of the disease in the wider community. It's now confirmed we had over 100 deaths this month and under 20 of them happened in hospital which means sadly the majority of them are in nursing/care homes where most was too ill to move to hospital for treatment. The sooner those homes and those with underling conditions get vaccinated the better.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 06:44:00 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on January 13, 2021, 05:17:16 PM
Quote from: South Laois man on January 13, 2021, 03:24:34 PM
I haven't posted here for a while but have been checking in from time to time. One observation is Angelotends to repeat the same bull everyday on this thread.

Not just this thread. Every thread unfortunate enough to attract his attention. The tl;dr for anyone without the time to wade through it all:

Angelo: I think x.

AN Other: Why do you think x, considering counter arguments a, b, and c?

Angelo: I think x. Idiot.

AN Other: Yeah, but a, b, and c all suggest that x can't be true. So why do you still think x?

Angelo: I've already answered that. Hypocrite.

AN Other: Where have you answered it, Angelo?

Angelo: It's not my fault you're too lazy to read back, wee man. Flu. Big pharma. January 2018. Nadal.

AN Other: But really Angelo, where have you answered it?

Angelo: Look, I'm not going to let you and your hysterical mob bully me out of my position. But here's where I answered it, coward:
Quote from: AngeloI think x

And the cycle repeats. And repeats. And repeats. And repeats. And repeats. And repeats. And repeats. And repeats. And repeats. And repeats...

See that's a completely false picture you're painting.

I have substantiated my points and when I press people to do the same with theirs I get insults.

So the floor is yours. If you can explain to me why it's justifiable that we had 2,101 deaths in January 2018 and nobody batted an eyelid be my guest but we both know that's not going to happen. Like all the rest you are utterly bound by your contradictions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 06:47:03 PM
It's been done Angelo. You didn't agree. Nothing has changed since so little point in rehashing. Just accept that most people don't agree with your view on the comparison. It doesn't impact your ability to hold that view.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 13, 2021, 06:48:06 PM
1770 in Hospital in the 26 today with 172 in ICU.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ball Hopper on January 13, 2021, 07:28:02 PM
Best wishes for your Dad, Sid.  Keep being strong for and with him.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 13, 2021, 07:33:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 13, 2021, 06:48:06 PM
1770 in Hospital in the 26 today with 172 in ICU.
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0113/1189546-covid-figures/
ICU up from 14 yesterday, that is some leap.

It's going to be bleak for a while for these islands
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 08:11:23 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 13, 2021, 06:47:03 PM
It's been done Angelo. You didn't agree. Nothing has changed since so little point in rehashing. Just accept that most people don't agree with your view on the comparison. It doesn't impact your ability to hold that view.

It has but when you have the likes of Ed Ricketts coming out and displaying something completely inaccurate then I won't be backing down.

A lot of chaps engaging in embarrassing positions of spin here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 08:13:12 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 13, 2021, 05:33:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 09:53:33 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 09:49:05 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 13, 2021, 09:38:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 13, 2021, 07:29:16 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 12, 2021, 10:51:53 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on January 12, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
I have not posted on here in a good while. I never really took posting on here that serious and done my fair share of WUM craic, I dip in and out but have been reading this tread recently. I work over a couple of the acute hospitals in the north, the bulk of my work is in emergency departments and medical admission wards. Angelo please believe me when I say this is very real, covid positive patients are lying on trolleys in corridors in emergency departments waiting for beds in the wards that just are not there. Till now the number of deaths have been kept low due to treatment being readily available, this is an option fast running out, where once everyone stood a fighting chance now the hard choices are having to be made. Not by you though Angelo. You just have to stay in as much as you can. I do not have a link too exactly how many patients are admitted with Covid but i do have access to the northern Ireland electronic care record which i monitor every time I am on duty, every 3-4 people in are with shortness of breath, I wonder why??, the majority over 65 but plenty in the 30, 40s and 50s. This is far far worse than the first wave. I have no links, no stats. Just what I see.
Very good post

46 dead in the Republic is the latest daily figure and I fear my father will be among these figures in the near future, he is on Day 10 and now has pneumonia, is being fed through a tube in his nose and fluids through IV, I find it hard to see him make it through to be honest

He is afraid and alone and my heart is breaking over it, I spent nearly ten months doing everything I could to keep Covid out, I haven't been in a pub since the start of March, I succeeded in keeping it out but he got it when he had go to hospital for a treatable non-Covid medical problem

Wake the f**k up Angelo and stop spreading shite, you know you're talking shite and so does everybody else, I honestly don't get your game

So sorry to read that Sid :(

If Angelo is a real person and not a wum he's got a lot of issues going on. I don't know if lockdown hasn't been kind or what there but at this point it's just car crash stuff. The internet isn't good for troubled people sometimes :(

I've offered a rational argument at all times.

I have the likes of you put in a corner with your false equivalency. When I bring up the winter flu in 2017/18 when we had record deaths in Jan 2018, you have to entrench yourself in and justify that and when you do that it removes any credibility in what you argue for now.

All you are is a sanctimonious mouthpiece. Why was 2,101 deaths acceptable to you in Jan 2018 and if it wasn't show me the posts where you spoke out against it at the time.

I know I won't expect any engagement with you on this core point because you are complete and utter hypocrite with a large dose of sanctimony and virtue signalling thrown in, which we know for sure is a complete facade.

Where has Harold ran off to with my unanswered questions too? All I can see is a lot of cowards here who justify people dying from flu but thing the world should be thrown into chaos in case those with Covid have the same outcome and when you're pressed on it all you resort too are slurs and attributing ridiculous statements to me which have no correlation with what I said. Be a man for once.

You don't know the meaning of the word rational and you don't know the meaning of the word logical if you view yourself as rational and logical.

There's little point in engaging with you. You have been shown up to be irrational and illogical time and again but you just can't comprehend it.

You seriously need to take time away from the internet. It isn't good for you.

Irony alert.

You don't have a choice in the matter wee man, you are bound by your own contradictions and your innate cowardice and that's why you choose not to engage.

I defy you to prove me wrong, the floor is yours.

Show me your disgust at 2,101 deaths during the 17/18 winter flu season?? Bump a few posts you made outlining it because all I have seen from your are extraordinary double standards where you justify that level of death back then. You then support the theory that winter lockdown eradicated flu this winter. So when you apply that set of rationale you are openly saying that we cost hundreds of lives back then by not locking down and then you justify that.

You're a coward and not a very bright one.

Double Irony Alert.

Do you honestly think that everyone posts their every though on the GAABoard?  Are you seriously suggesting that because someone didn't post something on here that it means they don't have an opinion on it?
Example.....I've never posted on here that I think you must be from that Snowflake generation that has to post on social media every time they fart or else they risk not getting the likes that are so craved? No I haven't. But do I believe that? Well...

Surely 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 would spark outrage yet the some lads didn't seem to care back then but are now trying to outdo each other in the levels of sanctimony they can display.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 08:23:37 PM
Great to see the effort the medical staff are putting in, was reading some story's of their shifts, how they are dealing with the threat of catching it! Stress
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 13, 2021, 09:13:47 PM
Hard on them alright.
Some 7,000 Health staff out sick with Covid at present in the 26.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on January 13, 2021, 10:30:14 PM
 Eamon Dunphys podcast is a good listen, https://t.co/suDdJGjDUK?amp=1
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 14, 2021, 07:36:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 12:23:13 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 12, 2021, 12:16:11 PM
One thing the English have excelled in since time immemorial is statistics and keeping records.

The ONS have released a preliminary comprehensive stats report for deaths in 2020. They're included in this document.
https://tinyurl.com/y37h42gj

One outstanding stat is the  high nr of excess deaths recorded in England's nursing homes during the 1st wave. And after the first wave excess deaths were kept at a minimum in those homes.
2020 covid death statistics  are compared to flu/pneumonia figures,  similar figures  but
approx  85% of covid deaths were due to covid, whereas 85% of flu/pneumonia death were not due to flu/pneumonia, but where the disease was a contributing factor

Franko and Milltown will take your head off for posting that.

What drugs are you on?!?

Figure 2 - compare and contrast the "Deaths where the disease was a contributing factor" vs. "Deaths due to the disease" within the bar charts.
Also, consider the context of one free to spread in normal societal interactions the other spreading when the country is taking drastic measures to reduce transmission vectors.

Figure 3 - the number of deaths due to non-covid factors are beneath the 5 yr average, and mostly have been since mid October. Expect that to climb again now with the collapsed NHS though.


This is why people hate "debating" with you - you post up stuff either without looking at it, or having the intelligence to interpret it correctly. Dunno which, but while its merely annoying to read the blatantly incorrect rubbish, its infuriating to think your spreading the same rubbish to people who might listen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 14, 2021, 08:17:18 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 14, 2021, 07:36:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 12:23:13 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 12, 2021, 12:16:11 PM
One thing the English have excelled in since time immemorial is statistics and keeping records.

The ONS have released a preliminary comprehensive stats report for deaths in 2020. They're included in this document.
https://tinyurl.com/y37h42gj

One outstanding stat is the  high nr of excess deaths recorded in England's nursing homes during the 1st wave. And after the first wave excess deaths were kept at a minimum in those homes.
2020 covid death statistics  are compared to flu/pneumonia figures,  similar figures  but
approx  85% of covid deaths were due to covid, whereas 85% of flu/pneumonia death were not due to flu/pneumonia, but where the disease was a contributing factor

Franko and Milltown will take your head off for posting that.

What drugs are you on?!?

Figure 2 - compare and contrast the "Deaths where the disease was a contributing factor" vs. "Deaths due to the disease" within the bar charts.
Also, consider the context of one free to spread in normal societal interactions the other spreading when the country is taking drastic measures to reduce transmission vectors.

Figure 3 - the number of deaths due to non-covid factors are beneath the 5 yr average, and mostly have been since mid October. Expect that to climb again now with the collapsed NHS though.


This is why people hate "debating" with you - you post up stuff either without looking at it, or having the intelligence to interpret it correctly. Dunno which, but while its merely annoying to read the blatantly incorrect rubbish, its infuriating to think your spreading the same rubbish to people who might listen.

Waste of time Radio

Ed summed it up well

Most posters have realised it's not worthwhile after having a few goes

Best to just let him batter away
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 14, 2021, 07:36:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 12, 2021, 12:23:13 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 12, 2021, 12:16:11 PM
One thing the English have excelled in since time immemorial is statistics and keeping records.

The ONS have released a preliminary comprehensive stats report for deaths in 2020. They're included in this document.
https://tinyurl.com/y37h42gj

One outstanding stat is the  high nr of excess deaths recorded in England's nursing homes during the 1st wave. And after the first wave excess deaths were kept at a minimum in those homes.
2020 covid death statistics  are compared to flu/pneumonia figures,  similar figures  but
approx  85% of covid deaths were due to covid, whereas 85% of flu/pneumonia death were not due to flu/pneumonia, but where the disease was a contributing factor

Franko and Milltown will take your head off for posting that.

What drugs are you on?!?

Figure 2 - compare and contrast the "Deaths where the disease was a contributing factor" vs. "Deaths due to the disease" within the bar charts.
Also, consider the context of one free to spread in normal societal interactions the other spreading when the country is taking drastic measures to reduce transmission vectors.

Figure 3 - the number of deaths due to non-covid factors are beneath the 5 yr average, and mostly have been since mid October. Expect that to climb again now with the collapsed NHS though.


This is why people hate "debating" with you - you post up stuff either without looking at it, or having the intelligence to interpret it correctly. Dunno which, but while its merely annoying to read the blatantly incorrect rubbish, its infuriating to think your spreading the same rubbish to people who might listen.


Christ almighty. The stupidity and blind ignorance dripping out of that post is obscene.

The answers to these questions will completely wipeout your argument which is probably why you won't answer them.

1. Do we test for flu? For contrast the UK has carried out a recorded 62m tests for Covid. How many flu tests have been carried out?

2. How many positive cases of flu have been confirmed? There have been 3.2m confirmed cases of Covid due to the mass testing in place.

3. Look at the arbitrary way in which we record deahts. We know that if you die within 28 days of a positive Covid test you are classified as a Covid death, arbitrarily. See snippet below from a BBC report, link attached. Also see the note on the attached on the published NISRA figures

BBC report:

A further 1,564 people have died in the UK within 28 days of a positive Covid test - the biggest figure reported in a single day since the pandemic began.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55653161

Absolutely no distinction made between whether they died with Covid or from Covid, whether someone who was on a life support machine after a road traffic accident picked it up in hospital an died days later - Covid death etc. The figures are completely overstated and completely skewed.

The note on the NISRA website accompanying their figures:

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

Once again an arbitrary method where once Covid is mentioned anywhere on the death certificate, you're a Covid death irrespective of what role (if any) it played.

These are facts, acknowledged by the relevant recording bodies but established facts seem to hold little sway into you acknowledging how misleading the death statistics are. Now apply that arbitrary fashion of recording death and presume we did the same with flu. Presume 62m flu tests were carried out in a year and any person that died within 28 days of a positive flu test was recorded as flu death. Do you think under this criteria flu deaths would be overstated? Again your willingness or unwillingness to address this question is vital. We have established facts that people like you seem intent on ignoring.

Finally "beneath the 5 year average". How did the winter flu season of 17/18 read with the 5 year average prior to that? 50k excess deaths over the normal for that time of year was the reported figure for the UK. In the O6, we had a record 2,101 death toll for a month in January 2018, something yet to be surpassed during Covid as of yet. And nobody even batted an eyelid about it. Why was that?

You have the floor now. It will be interesting to see how you formulate a response, will you actually be able to address what I said with facts or will you resort to hysterical accusations, lie and insults which seems to the modus operandi from the other posters in discussing the differences here.




Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2021, 10:17:33 AM
Great to see they are bringing the testing to airports, 11 months late!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 14, 2021, 10:18:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2021, 10:17:33 AM
Great to see they are bringing the testing to airports, 11 months late!

Did I read somewhere yesterday there are 12 minute tests coming in?

If that is accurate, and I am accurate. We are talking game changer for Sporting events.....this summer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2021, 10:20:50 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 14, 2021, 10:18:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2021, 10:17:33 AM
Great to see they are bringing the testing to airports, 11 months late!

Did I read somewhere yesterday there are 12 minute tests coming in?

If that is accurate, and I am accurate. We are talking game changer for Sporting events.....this summer.

Yeah missus mentioned yesterday
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 14, 2021, 10:21:49 AM
Interesting - that's a game changer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 10:46:43 AM
With regards to the registration of the deaths. Anglo is right that there is a variation in the figures of recorded deaths and were Covid was the underlying factor. As of Nov it was roughly 90%. See below.



Covid-19 was the underlying cause of 808 deaths in Northern Ireland this year, according to newly published figures.

The latest statistics were compiled from Registrar General data.

It records 3,815 deaths in Northern Ireland between July 1 to September 30.

Of these, Covid-19 was the underlying cause of 53 which brings the total number of deaths in 2020 where the virus was the underlying cause to 808.

According to the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency (Nisra), there have been 902 deaths this year where Covid-19 was mentioned on the death certificate.


This would indicate that the virus was the primary cause of death in 89.6% percent of all deaths which mentioned Covid-19 on the death certificate.

Not a significant impact on the figures in my view. And not one that changes my view on the severity of the issue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on January 14, 2021, 10:51:37 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2021, 10:20:50 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 14, 2021, 10:18:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2021, 10:17:33 AM
Great to see they are bringing the testing to airports, 11 months late!

Did I read somewhere yesterday there are 12 minute tests coming in?

If that is accurate, and I am accurate. We are talking game changer for Sporting events.....this summer.

Yeah missus mentioned yesterday

Have they mentioned how accurate the tests are likely to be ?  Was there not something in the press the other day about the lack of accuracy on the flow tests ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 10:55:00 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 10:46:43 AM
With regards to the registration of the deaths. Anglo is right that there is a variation in the figures of recorded deaths and were Covid was the underlying factor. As of Nov it was roughly 90%. See below.



Covid-19 was the underlying cause of 808 deaths in Northern Ireland this year, according to newly published figures.

The latest statistics were compiled from Registrar General data.

It records 3,815 deaths in Northern Ireland between July 1 to September 30.

Of these, Covid-19 was the underlying cause of 53 which brings the total number of deaths in 2020 where the virus was the underlying cause to 808.

According to the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency (Nisra), there have been 902 deaths this year where Covid-19 was mentioned on the death certificate.


This would indicate that the virus was the primary cause of death in 89.6% percent of all deaths which mentioned Covid-19 on the death certificate.

Not a significant impact on the figures in my view. And not one that changes my view on the severity of the issue.

If a 86 year old with heart disease, diabetes or a respiratory illness got flu in the winter months of prior years and died. Would that be attributed as a death as a result of flu? Would it be even noticed that they had flu?

Same scenario for that 86 year old with Covid. They will be tested for Covid and will likely have Covid listed as the primary cause of death?

If you delve into the stats it raises some massive questions. I'd like to see what % of elderly people have died from heart disease, respiratory illness, cancer, alzheimers etc died this year compared to prior years. Have elderly people now stopped dying from the ailments they normally die from?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 10:55:27 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 14, 2021, 10:51:37 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2021, 10:20:50 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 14, 2021, 10:18:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2021, 10:17:33 AM
Great to see they are bringing the testing to airports, 11 months late!

Did I read somewhere yesterday there are 12 minute tests coming in?

If that is accurate, and I am accurate. We are talking game changer for Sporting events.....this summer.

Yeah missus mentioned yesterday

Have they mentioned how accurate the tests are likely to be ?  Was there not something in the press the other day about the lack of accuracy on the flow tests ?

The PCR testing has major question marks over accuracy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 10:56:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 10:55:00 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 10:46:43 AM
With regards to the registration of the deaths. Anglo is right that there is a variation in the figures of recorded deaths and were Covid was the underlying factor. As of Nov it was roughly 90%. See below.



Covid-19 was the underlying cause of 808 deaths in Northern Ireland this year, according to newly published figures.

The latest statistics were compiled from Registrar General data.

It records 3,815 deaths in Northern Ireland between July 1 to September 30.

Of these, Covid-19 was the underlying cause of 53 which brings the total number of deaths in 2020 where the virus was the underlying cause to 808.

According to the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency (Nisra), there have been 902 deaths this year where Covid-19 was mentioned on the death certificate.


This would indicate that the virus was the primary cause of death in 89.6% percent of all deaths which mentioned Covid-19 on the death certificate.

Not a significant impact on the figures in my view. And not one that changes my view on the severity of the issue.

If a 86 year old with heart disease, diabetes or a respiratory illness got flu in the winter months of prior years and died. Would that be attributed as a death as a result of flu? Would it be even noticed that they had flu?

Same scenario for that 86 year old with Covid. They will be tested for Covid and will likely have Covid listed as the primary cause of death?

If you delve into the stats it raises some massive questions. I'd like to see what % of elderly people have died from heart disease, respiratory illness, cancer, alzheimers etc died this year compared to prior years. Have elderly people now stopped dying from the ailments they normally die from?
I'm going to stick with the official line on this rather than your version thanks all the same.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on January 14, 2021, 11:00:46 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 08:23:37 PM
Great to see the effort the medical staff are putting in, was reading some story's of their shifts, how they are dealing with the threat of catching it! Stress

Yes it has to be the most difficult job. Lots of these people have their own families they are trying to protect whilst also trying to save lives.
God love them. I can only imagine that they can never switch off either even when off shift.

On a wider point, I think society as a whole needs to have a rethink on what jobs are essential to keep things moving. Truck drivers, shop assistants, dentists, gp's, bin collectors.....many more I'm probably not thinking off. Lots of these people are working on minimum wages or very little more than that, yet without them society will be at a standstill. They should be given the respect and wages that reflect the importance of their positions in society.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 11:06:16 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 14, 2021, 11:00:46 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 08:23:37 PM
Great to see the effort the medical staff are putting in, was reading some story's of their shifts, how they are dealing with the threat of catching it! Stress

Yes it has to be the most difficult job. Lots of these people have their own families they are trying to protect whilst also trying to save lives.
God love them. I can only imagine that they can never switch off either even when off shift.

On a wider point, I think society as a whole needs to have a rethink on what jobs are essential to keep things moving. Truck drivers, shop assistants, dentists, gp's, bin collectors.....many more I'm probably not thinking off. Lots of these people are working on minimum wages or very little more than that, yet without them society will be at a standstill. They should be given the respect and wages that reflect the importance of their positions in society.

The problem with that is a Tory government or a Labour government under a corporate zionist like Starmer openly resent the working class and will not sacrifice the elite to bring some parity to that. Britain really missed its chance to have a leader that would redress inequality under Corbyn but a right wing media and docile electorate saw to that.

The same with FFG down south.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2021, 11:11:02 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 14, 2021, 11:00:46 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2021, 08:23:37 PM
Great to see the effort the medical staff are putting in, was reading some story's of their shifts, how they are dealing with the threat of catching it! Stress

Yes it has to be the most difficult job. Lots of these people have their own families they are trying to protect whilst also trying to save lives.
God love them. I can only imagine that they can never switch off either even when off shift.

On a wider point, I think society as a whole needs to have a rethink on what jobs are essential to keep things moving. Truck drivers, shop assistants, dentists, gp's, bin collectors.....many more I'm probably not thinking off. Lots of these people are working on minimum wages or very little more than that, yet without them society will be at a standstill. They should be given the respect and wages that reflect the importance of their positions in society.

It would be great if that could happen..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 14, 2021, 11:19:01 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 14, 2021, 10:51:37 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2021, 10:20:50 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 14, 2021, 10:18:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2021, 10:17:33 AM
Great to see they are bringing the testing to airports, 11 months late!

Did I read somewhere yesterday there are 12 minute tests coming in?

If that is accurate, and I am accurate. We are talking game changer for Sporting events.....this summer.

Yeah missus mentioned yesterday

Have they mentioned how accurate the tests are likely to be ?  Was there not something in the press the other day about the lack of accuracy on the flow tests ?

Would need to really take a search on that, can't even remember where I read it. I think it I read it was something that had been trialled in a few places and was ready for roll out now. Was near the end of the day and I was for rushing out the door to be honest with you.

As for accuracy, I mean if they are going to airports for purposes of National Security, really, I suppose they have to be on the money? Maybe someone who knows a bit more about the actual testing could comment as I wouldn't have a clue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 11:31:11 AM
The testing thing is a bit of a shambles though right?

There's a serious volume of false positives there.

Professional sports is a good indicator of this where players test positive and then a few days later return a negative test. Conor McKenna being a good case in point.

I'm sure rapid testing is even more unreliable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2021, 11:50:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 14, 2021, 11:19:01 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 14, 2021, 10:51:37 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2021, 10:20:50 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 14, 2021, 10:18:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2021, 10:17:33 AM
Great to see they are bringing the testing to airports, 11 months late!

Did I read somewhere yesterday there are 12 minute tests coming in?

If that is accurate, and I am accurate. We are talking game changer for Sporting events.....this summer.

Yeah missus mentioned yesterday

Have they mentioned how accurate the tests are likely to be ?  Was there not something in the press the other day about the lack of accuracy on the flow tests ?

Would need to really take a search on that, can't even remember where I read it. I think it I read it was something that had been trialled in a few places and was ready for roll out now. Was near the end of the day and I was for rushing out the door to be honest with you.

As for accuracy, I mean if they are going to airports for purposes of National Security, really, I suppose they have to be on the money? Maybe someone who knows a bit more about the actual testing could comment as I wouldn't have a clue.

Aye like someone with knowledge of test kits and how these Pharma companies make them.

A friend of mine works in Randox, must have a chat with here and see. She's got a degree in that area, better than some random person commentating on it I suppose.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on January 14, 2021, 11:59:10 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 14, 2021, 11:19:01 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 14, 2021, 10:51:37 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2021, 10:20:50 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 14, 2021, 10:18:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2021, 10:17:33 AM
Great to see they are bringing the testing to airports, 11 months late!

Did I read somewhere yesterday there are 12 minute tests coming in?

If that is accurate, and I am accurate. We are talking game changer for Sporting events.....this summer.

Yeah missus mentioned yesterday

Have they mentioned how accurate the tests are likely to be ?  Was there not something in the press the other day about the lack of accuracy on the flow tests ?

Would need to really take a search on that, can't even remember where I read it. I think it I read it was something that had been trialled in a few places and was ready for roll out now. Was near the end of the day and I was for rushing out the door to be honest with you.

As for accuracy, I mean if they are going to airports for purposes of National Security, really, I suppose they have to be on the money? Maybe someone who knows a bit more about the actual testing could comment as I wouldn't have a clue.

I don't know, but maybe not.
In South Korea the first Covid test they had was only something like 70-75% accurate. But they mass tested and had a stringent track and trace with imposed isolation for positive cases and their contacts.
Due to the extremely high level of testing, they were still able to keep the numbers of people with covid down.
If you applied that same logic to airports where everyone was tested with using a test with 70-75% accuracy, then it still would drastically reduce any infections coming through airports.
Only guessing the percentages and assuming that this would be the case....but I haven't actually heard about these 12 min tests myself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyroneman on January 14, 2021, 01:01:38 PM
It's mind-boggling how many people still don't seem to care.

Well educated folks, who should know better, still not wearing face masks in shops, still mixing with multiple other housholds, still meeting friends for walks/chats, still not socially distancing, still making unnecessary journeys

Yet they are the first to talk about how bad things have got, how dreadful it is that xyx has passed away alone in a hospital from Covid but despite all that, somehow,  everyone else but them is to blame and they takee zero responsibility for thier actions (because they are the magic exception of course) - as if they are powerless to help matters.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 14, 2021, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on January 14, 2021, 01:01:38 PM
It's mind-boggling how many people still don't seem to care.

Well educated folks, who should know better, still not wearing face masks in shops, still mixing with multiple other housholds, still meeting friends for walks/chats, still not socially distancing, still making unnecessary journeys

Yet they are the first to talk about how bad things have got, how dreadful it is that xyx has passed away alone in a hospital from Covid but despite all that, somehow,  everyone else but them is to blame and they takee zero responsibility for thier actions (because they are the magic exception of course) - as if they are powerless to help matters.

This. ^
I know a good few families who have loved ones that are properly sick. Yet they have these ideas that Covid came in through the window but definitely wasn't from meeting up over Christmas that they shared all over social media. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on January 14, 2021, 01:25:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 14, 2021, 01:12:01 PM


This. ^
I know a good few families who have loved ones that are properly sick. Yet they have these ideas that Covid came in through the window but definitely wasn't from meeting up over Christmas that they shared all over social media.

This is really what gets me. The amount of pictures on Facebook over the Christmas holidays where large family groups were together was unreal. I can't believe that they didn't think of the potential consequences, and I assume this is what has been behind the really bad numbers that we are now seeing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 01:28:46 PM
Have we had a peak in numbers in recent weeks? Possibly in hospitals but the bottom line is that daily new cases have been at a fairly steady level in the O6 for nearly 3 months now.

We have lockdowns in place for the vast majority of that time. Lockdowns do not work, they have been proven to be failures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on January 14, 2021, 01:30:29 PM
P I T A
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 01:38:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 01:28:46 PM
Have we had a peak in numbers in recent weeks? Possibly in hospitals but the bottom line is that daily new cases have been at a fairly steady level in the O6 for nearly 3 months now.

We have lockdowns in place for the vast majority of that time. Lockdowns do not work, they have been proven to be failures.

They really haven't been at a stead level for the last 3 months at all.  There's a graph on this page that shows the rolling 7 day average.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/mapping-coronavirus-in-northern-ireland-confirmed-cases-of-covid-19-in-your-council-area-39081262.html

Lockdowns work. I would hate to see figures had be neglected to lock down. It's just a pity it wasn't a stricter lockdown for longer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 01:58:30 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 01:38:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 01:28:46 PM
Have we had a peak in numbers in recent weeks? Possibly in hospitals but the bottom line is that daily new cases have been at a fairly steady level in the O6 for nearly 3 months now.

We have lockdowns in place for the vast majority of that time. Lockdowns do not work, they have been proven to be failures.

They really haven't been at a stead level for the last 3 months at all.  There's a graph on this page that shows the rolling 7 day average.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/mapping-coronavirus-in-northern-ireland-confirmed-cases-of-covid-19-in-your-council-area-39081262.html

Lockdowns work. I would hate to see figures had be neglected to lock down. It's just a pity it wasn't a stricter lockdown for longer.

How do lockdowns work? We've been in effective lockdown for the majority of the last 3 months and cases have not fallen. The hospitality sector had about two weeks open in that time frame, schools have been shut for nearly 4 weeks now, non essesntial retail has had closures before and after Christmas and cases have not fallen.

Lockdowns have failed and failed spectacularly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 14, 2021, 02:05:23 PM
Cases were less than 1k today(for the first time in a long time) and for the first time in a very long time there are less inpatients here(850 from 875 so still a lot). 16 deaths  :( (13 in the 24 hours and 3 outside the reporting period).

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on January 14, 2021, 02:05:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 01:58:30 PM
How do lockdowns work? We've been in effective lockdown for the majority of the last 3 months and cases have not fallen. The hospitality sector had about two weeks open in that time frame, schools have been shut for nearly 4 weeks now, non essesntial retail has had closures before and after Christmas and cases have not fallen.

Lockdowns have failed and failed spectacularly.

Same logic as with justifications of communism. "Oh yes it works, it just has never been done properly."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 02:08:30 PM
We're not re-having the same debate. Lock downs work. To me it's evident to anyone with a brain cell. But you've stated why you think they don't. I just don't agree with you at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 02:12:44 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 02:08:30 PM
We're not re-having the same debate. Lock downs work. To me it's evident to anyone with a brain cell. But you've stated why you think they don't. I just don't agree with you at all.

The lockdowns evidently have not worked.

We have not seen a reduction in cases after 3 months of lockdown measures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 02:14:45 PM
They evidently have. As discussed previously. But I don't expect you to change your opinion. So happy to leave it there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 02:18:39 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 02:14:45 PM
They evidently have. As discussed previously. But I don't expect you to change your opinion. So happy to leave it there.

No. The evidence says that despite 3 months of lockdowns and restrictive measures, daily new cases have not reduced.

They have been an unmitigated failure and to say otherwise is a very obvious departure from reality.

Why have cases not gone down despite lockdown measures?

Lockdowns neither work, nor are they sustainable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 02:24:01 PM
Yeah they do.

Most people know that.

You don't.

I don't care that you don't know or accept that. You are well entitled to hold that opinion even if I think it's BS.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 02:25:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 02:24:01 PM
Yeah they do.

Most people know that.

You don't.

I don't care that you don't know or accept that. You are well entitled to hold that opinion even if I think it's BS.

Show me how 3 months of Lockdowns have reduced daily new cases?

Show me how they are practical and sustainable?

Governments failed to put measures in place after the first lockdown and that's the reason we are in the position we are in. Failed lockdown after failed lockdown after failed lockdown
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 14, 2021, 02:28:53 PM
LumiraDx SARS-CoV-2 Ag test

97.6% positive accuracy / 96.6% negative accuracy.

Been trialled apparently by Belfast Trust (1 of 5 sites).

If this is accurate, it is massive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 14, 2021, 02:29:43 PM
And round and round we go. Back to Lockdowns and inaccurate tests. Could it be anymore obvious men? Be more beneficial to the board if those running moderated rather than creating these accounts  :P

Vaccine wise (Pfizer) , I had an ach in my arm for maybe a day. All good apart from that. Most in our work now vaccinated, and a headache for a while seems to be a common enough symptom.
Have spoken to a good few who have had the Oxford vaccine  through their GP practice and some had flu like symptoms for a day or 2.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 02:31:06 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 14, 2021, 02:28:53 PM
LumiraDx SARS-CoV-2 Ag test

97.6% positive accuracy / 96.6% negative accuracy.

Been trialled apparently by Belfast Trust (1 of 5 sites).

If this is accurate, it is massive.

Is that the rapid testing?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 02:31:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 02:25:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 02:24:01 PM
Yeah they do.

Most people know that.

You don't.

I don't care that you don't know or accept that. You are well entitled to hold that opinion even if I think it's BS.

Show me how 3 months of Lockdowns have reduced daily new cases?

Show me how they are practical and sustainable?

Governments failed to put measures in place after the first lockdown and that's the reason we are in the position we are in. Failed lockdown after failed lockdown after failed lockdown


What you want to do is rehave the same argument we had about a week ago. That's what you do. It's the arguing you seem to enjoy, not the who's right or wrong. There is no benefit in debating with someone who just wants the argument. So I'm happy for you to hold the opinion that lockdowns don't work. I'm of the opinion that they do. Most others can make their own minds up themselves as well. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 02:33:10 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 02:31:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 02:25:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 02:24:01 PM
Yeah they do.

Most people know that.

You don't.

I don't care that you don't know or accept that. You are well entitled to hold that opinion even if I think it's BS.

Show me how 3 months of Lockdowns have reduced daily new cases?

Show me how they are practical and sustainable?

Governments failed to put measures in place after the first lockdown and that's the reason we are in the position we are in. Failed lockdown after failed lockdown after failed lockdown


What you want to do is rehave the same argument we had about a week ago. That's what you do. It's the arguing you seem to enjoy, not the who's right or wrong. There is no benefit in debating with someone who just wants the argument. So I'm happy for you to hold the opinion that lockdowns don't work. I'm of the opinion that they do. Most others can make their own minds up themselves as well.

I'm just pointing to the reality.

3 months of lockdowns and restrictions and no real drop in cases during that period. You can continue to ignore this if you wish.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 14, 2021, 02:36:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 02:31:06 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 14, 2021, 02:28:53 PM
LumiraDx SARS-CoV-2 Ag test

97.6% positive accuracy / 96.6% negative accuracy.

Been trialled apparently by Belfast Trust (1 of 5 sites).

If this is accurate, it is massive.

Is that the rapid testing?

12 minute test yes.

Robin Swann mentioned it yesterday in his briefing, that's where I heard/read.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on January 14, 2021, 02:38:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 01:28:46 PM
Have we had a peak in numbers in recent weeks? Possibly in hospitals but the bottom line is that daily new cases have been at a fairly steady level in the O6 for nearly 3 months now.


Yes, you are correct as always Angelo.
Have a look at the top left chart on Page 10 of the NI Dept of Health Dashboard, and the first two weeks in January definitely have the same numbers as the previous 3 months.
No doubt about it.
https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 02:38:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 02:33:10 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 02:31:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 02:25:40 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 02:24:01 PM
Yeah they do.

Most people know that.

You don't.

I don't care that you don't know or accept that. You are well entitled to hold that opinion even if I think it's BS.

Show me how 3 months of Lockdowns have reduced daily new cases?

Show me how they are practical and sustainable?

Governments failed to put measures in place after the first lockdown and that's the reason we are in the position we are in. Failed lockdown after failed lockdown after failed lockdown


What you want to do is rehave the same argument we had about a week ago. That's what you do. It's the arguing you seem to enjoy, not the who's right or wrong. There is no benefit in debating with someone who just wants the argument. So I'm happy for you to hold the opinion that lockdowns don't work. I'm of the opinion that they do. Most others can make their own minds up themselves as well.

I'm just pointing to the reality.

3 months of lockdowns and restrictions and no real drop in cases during that period. You can continue to ignore this if you wish.

Your reality and mine differ. We'll leave it there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 02:43:01 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on January 14, 2021, 02:38:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 01:28:46 PM
Have we had a peak in numbers in recent weeks? Possibly in hospitals but the bottom line is that daily new cases have been at a fairly steady level in the O6 for nearly 3 months now.


Yes, you are correct as always Angelo.
Have a look at the top left chart on Page 10 of the NI Dept of Health Dashboard, and the first two weeks in January definitely have the same numbers as the previous 3 months.
No doubt about it.
https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9

I would call those case numbers fairly steady, only last week really seems out of kilter with the previous case numbers.

Lockdowns seem to have had little in the way of impact so why are we repeating failed strategies?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: South Laois man on January 14, 2021, 03:12:01 PM
So what do you propose Angelo we do instead?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 14, 2021, 03:28:09 PM
The fact staters seem to have gone seriously quiet these days...

You know the type.

X cases today in the 6
Equivalent to Y cases today in 26
If we had that number of cases we'd be *insert extreme measures*


The cynic in me would say that it seems that these facts are only worth stating when they support a certain viewpoint?

Maybe not  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 14, 2021, 03:37:12 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 14, 2021, 03:28:09 PM
The fact staters seem to have gone seriously quiet these days...

You know the type.

X cases today in the 6
Equivalent to Y cases today in 26
If we had that number of cases we'd be *insert extreme measures*


The cynic in me would say that it seems that these facts are only worth stating when they support a certain viewpoint?

Maybe not  ::)
Latest daily deaths figure in Sweden: 351

Done with Covid, done with Covid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on January 14, 2021, 03:40:15 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 01:38:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 01:28:46 PM
Have we had a peak in numbers in recent weeks? Possibly in hospitals but the bottom line is that daily new cases have been at a fairly steady level in the O6 for nearly 3 months now.

We have lockdowns in place for the vast majority of that time. Lockdowns do not work, they have been proven to be failures.

They really haven't been at a stead level for the last 3 months at all.  There's a graph on this page that shows the rolling 7 day average.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/mapping-coronavirus-in-northern-ireland-confirmed-cases-of-covid-19-in-your-council-area-39081262.html

Lockdowns work. I would hate to see figures had be neglected to lock down. It's just a pity it wasn't a stricter lockdown for longer.

Yeah I agree with that.
If they had locked down earlier and harder, then chances are the length of lockdown would have been shorter and the number of cases much lower. Therefore, less of a knock one effect to business and the nhs as a whole.
This is what the government needs to answer for IMO. Delaying for too long and not being brave enough to fully lock down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 14, 2021, 03:44:32 PM
The week off then everyone squeezing all the shit they could possibly do into the week is inexcusable IMO.

Cases aren't reducing at all so they decide to open up for christmas. Couldn't make it up.

We're still very far from out of the woods and there is going to be a tough few weeks for NHS in particular.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on January 14, 2021, 03:50:21 PM
Colm Henry said today that R is well above one.  The positivity rate and cases over the last week are falling, do this not mean that R must be below one or do they take the R number over a 14 day period ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on January 14, 2021, 04:34:46 PM
Arlene and Michelle have just said that the R rate is now between 0.7 - 0.9.
Looks like lockdown is working in terms of breaking the chains of transmission.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 14, 2021, 04:41:16 PM
Hopefully we will start to see hospital numbers drop significantly.

I was reading there there are 300k cases of "long covid" I think it's in the Uk. There's a young girl(who's 21 and would keep herself fit etc) in our work was due to start september and still hasn't started because of it. Heart problems and everything. Horrendous.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2021, 04:54:01 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 14, 2021, 04:34:46 PM
Arlene and Michelle have just said that the R rate is now between 0.7 - 0.9.
Looks like lockdown is working in terms of breaking the chains of transmission.

Just a pity it wasn't done earlier.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 14, 2021, 05:09:35 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 14, 2021, 04:41:16 PM
Hopefully we will start to see hospital numbers drop significantly.

I was reading there there are 300k cases of "long covid" I think it's in the Uk. There's a young girl(who's 21 and would keep herself fit etc) in our work was due to start september and still hasn't started because of it. Heart problems and everything. Horrendous.
Was a 38 year old woman from east Galway on Radio this morning.
She got Covid last March.
Now has a continuous hoarse voice, cough, low energy, difficulty concentrating etc.
Gets breathless if she goes up the stairs..
You simply do not want to be getting Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 14, 2021, 05:12:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 14, 2021, 04:41:16 PM
Hopefully we will start to see hospital numbers drop significantly.

I was reading there there are 300k cases of "long covid" I think it's in the Uk. There's a young girl(who's 21 and would keep herself fit etc) in our work was due to start september and still hasn't started because of it. Heart problems and everything. Horrendous.

Unfortunately I think we're looking at hospital numbers and deaths probably staying were they are for the next week or so. They talk about a 2-3 week lag. But the fact the infection rate is dropping is good news and proves that the restrictions are working.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 14, 2021, 05:22:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 14, 2021, 05:09:35 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 14, 2021, 04:41:16 PM
Hopefully we will start to see hospital numbers drop significantly.

I was reading there there are 300k cases of "long covid" I think it's in the Uk. There's a young girl(who's 21 and would keep herself fit etc) in our work was due to start september and still hasn't started because of it. Heart problems and everything. Horrendous.
Was a 38 year old woman from east Galway on Radio this morning.
She got Covid last March.
Now has a continuous hoarse voice, cough, low energy, difficulty concentrating etc.
Gets breathless if she goes up the stairs..
You simply do not want to be getting Covid.

I know 3 people with long COVID, they've all had it for 6 months plus. None of them are remotely close to being able to work. One of them got it last March, he's only 42 and was very fit. He can't even walk 100 metres now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 14, 2021, 05:50:27 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 14, 2021, 05:22:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 14, 2021, 05:09:35 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 14, 2021, 04:41:16 PM
Hopefully we will start to see hospital numbers drop significantly.

I was reading there there are 300k cases of "long covid" I think it's in the Uk. There's a young girl(who's 21 and would keep herself fit etc) in our work was due to start september and still hasn't started because of it. Heart problems and everything. Horrendous.
Was a 38 year old woman from east Galway on Radio this morning.
She got Covid last March.
Now has a continuous hoarse voice, cough, low energy, difficulty concentrating etc.
Gets breathless if she goes up the stairs..
You simply do not want to be getting Covid.

I know 3 people with long COVID, they've all had it for 6 months plus. None of them are remotely close to being able to work. One of them got it last March, he's only 42 and was very fit. He can't even walk 100 metres now.

That is one side of this that you don't hear much about. It's normally, X number has died, X number has recovered, but not the number who are struggling with the after affects of it.

I know someone in late 40's, who was a bit tired, breathless for a few months afterwards, but is still able to work without it being much of an issue. Another I know was older, but is suffering a bit worse. However, both aren't as bad as you described.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 14, 2021, 06:04:58 PM
Mps in England seem to be trying to get some legislation through about sick pay for long COVID as it seems a big enough thing.

Trailer yeah I think we are a good bit off the home straight just yet. Two months ago 900 cases was a travesty but now it is a success. Mad times.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 07:38:41 PM
Loads of people will have Long Covid if they're going to get paid for it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2021, 07:53:32 PM
People thought ME was a fake illness, long Covid will be the same
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 14, 2021, 07:54:43 PM
Supposed to be very similar.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2021, 08:00:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 14, 2021, 07:54:43 PM
Supposed to be very similar.

That's why I used it...

ME probably a result of Flu
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on January 14, 2021, 09:05:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2021, 07:53:32 PM
People thought ME was a fake illness, long Covid will be the same
People? it was 'educated' medical opinion who claimed it was psychosomatic.  Medical quack diagnosis ....'go home and do some mindfullness'.

And can any one of those medics who ever believe that psychosomatic is a medical cause, ever explain how a psychosomatic condition could arise?  i.e from a scientific point of view,not from a  belief platform?

ME was also labelled the 'yuppie disease 'once upon a time. Also people who just never recovered properely from a heavy flu and the debilitating effects lasted for months on end. The condition is not unique to some people recovering after covid, but very similar to ME.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 14, 2021, 09:16:55 PM
3 months later still having heart palpitations. Keeping eye on it. Could be something else but it did coincide with week I got the COVID
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 14, 2021, 09:40:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 14, 2021, 09:16:55 PM
3 months later still having heart palpitations. Keeping eye on it. Could be something else but it did coincide with week I got the COVID
Ever hear of Heartblock? Apparently 60-70% of the population have it to some degree (mostly a mild arrhythmia)and are walking around unaware until it becomes noticeable. I was diagnosed about 2 years ago, still waiting on an echo cardiogram, not happening anytime soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 14, 2021, 09:42:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
1. Do we test for flu? For contrast the UK has carried out a recorded 62m tests for Covid. How many flu tests have been carried out?

We don't need to test for flu because it is far less virulent and far less lethal.

This was pointed out, oh I don't know, about 9 f*kking months ago.


Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
2. How many positive cases of flu have been confirmed? There have been 3.2m confirmed cases of Covid due to the mass testing in place.

If someone has died of pneumonia without having COVID, then they won't be a COVID death.

If someone has had both, then it'll likely be attributed to COVID.

But here's the thing that you STILL aren't getting - with transmission vectors all but strangled for the flu - its more or less negligible this winter.

Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
3. Look at the arbitrary way in which we record deahts. We know that if you die within 28 days of a positive Covid test you are classified as a Covid death, arbitrarily. See snippet below from a BBC report, link attached. Also see the note on the attached on the published NISRA figures

The chart I pointed out is more detailed than the f**king BBC.

It also differentiates between factor and cause - which is different from the footer detail which applies to the catch all number. Again, you aren't reading and interpreting your own information!


Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AMFinally "beneath the 5 year average". How did the winter flu season of 17/18 read with the 5 year average prior to that? 50k excess deaths over the normal for that time of year was the reported figure for the UK. In the O6, we had a record 2,101 death toll for a month in January 2018, something yet to be surpassed during Covid as of yet. And nobody even batted an eyelid about it. Why was that?

You have the floor now. It will be interesting to see how you formulate a response, will you actually be able to address what I said with facts or will you resort to hysterical accusations, lie and insults which seems to the modus operandi from the other posters in discussing the differences here.

This is very simple. The flu of 17/18 did what it did without any significant public health measures in place to reduce transmissions as much as possible. You have seen over the past few weeks the sensitivity of transmission rates to public health measures.

Now - just think - what would the covid rates be if we did what was done in 17/18? (i.e. nothing bar a few incidentals)

Ive just done a comparison of 2020 to 2018 for NI - based on the data here (http://"https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls"), and the relative death rates are:

Jan: -21%
Feb: -12%
Mar: -7%
April: +51%
May: +24%
June: +14%
July: +9%
Aug: -5%
Sept: +26%
Oct: +12%
Nov: +32%
Dec: +34%

Over the whole year, (including your Jan 2018) deaths are up ~1500 in 2020, or 10%. Since April, they are up ~2400 in 2020, or 22%.


You pointing toward Jan 2018 is farcical. If the country had locked down for then like it has now, then the number of deaths would have been a fraction of what it was, and well down on normal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 14, 2021, 10:08:06 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 14, 2021, 09:40:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 14, 2021, 09:16:55 PM
3 months later still having heart palpitations. Keeping eye on it. Could be something else but it did coincide with week I got the COVID
Ever hear of Heartblock? Apparently 60-70% of the population have it to some degree (mostly a mild arrhythmia)and are walking around unaware until it becomes noticeable. I was diagnosed about 2 years ago, still waiting on an echo cardiogram, not happening anytime soon.

Good man , must check it out, keep safe
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 14, 2021, 10:43:45 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 14, 2021, 09:05:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2021, 07:53:32 PM
People thought ME was a fake illness, long Covid will be the same
People? it was 'educated' medical opinion who claimed it was psychosomatic.  Medical quack diagnosis ....'go home and do some mindfullness'.

And can any one of those medics who ever believe that psychosomatic is a medical cause, ever explain how a psychosomatic condition could arise?  i.e from a scientific point of view,not from a  belief platform?

ME was also labelled the 'yuppie disease 'once upon a time. Also people who just never recovered properely from a heavy flu and the debilitating effects lasted for months on end. The condition is not unique to some people recovering after covid, but very similar to ME.

ME was deliberately looked down upon so they wouldn't have to pay sufferers sick pay. So it was easy for them to turn down their benefit, and shove them onto the dole queue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 09:38:37 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 14, 2021, 09:42:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
1. Do we test for flu? For contrast the UK has carried out a recorded 62m tests for Covid. How many flu tests have been carried out?

We don't need to test for flu because it is far less virulent and far less lethal.

This was pointed out, oh I don't know, about 9 f*kking months ago.


Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
2. How many positive cases of flu have been confirmed? There have been 3.2m confirmed cases of Covid due to the mass testing in place.

If someone has died of pneumonia without having COVID, then they won't be a COVID death.

If someone has had both, then it'll likely be attributed to COVID.

But here's the thing that you STILL aren't getting - with transmission vectors all but strangled for the flu - its more or less negligible this winter.

Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
3. Look at the arbitrary way in which we record deahts. We know that if you die within 28 days of a positive Covid test you are classified as a Covid death, arbitrarily. See snippet below from a BBC report, link attached. Also see the note on the attached on the published NISRA figures

The chart I pointed out is more detailed than the f**king BBC.

It also differentiates between factor and cause - which is different from the footer detail which applies to the catch all number. Again, you aren't reading and interpreting your own information!


Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AMFinally "beneath the 5 year average". How did the winter flu season of 17/18 read with the 5 year average prior to that? 50k excess deaths over the normal for that time of year was the reported figure for the UK. In the O6, we had a record 2,101 death toll for a month in January 2018, something yet to be surpassed during Covid as of yet. And nobody even batted an eyelid about it. Why was that?

You have the floor now. It will be interesting to see how you formulate a response, will you actually be able to address what I said with facts or will you resort to hysterical accusations, lie and insults which seems to the modus operandi from the other posters in discussing the differences here.

This is very simple. The flu of 17/18 did what it did without any significant public health measures in place to reduce transmissions as much as possible. You have seen over the past few weeks the sensitivity of transmission rates to public health measures.

Now - just think - what would the covid rates be if we did what was done in 17/18? (i.e. nothing bar a few incidentals)

Ive just done a comparison of 2020 to 2018 for NI - based on the data here (http://"https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls"), and the relative death rates are:

Jan: -21%
Feb: -12%
Mar: -7%
April: +51%
May: +24%
June: +14%
July: +9%
Aug: -5%
Sept: +26%
Oct: +12%
Nov: +32%
Dec: +34%

Over the whole year, (including your Jan 2018) deaths are up ~1500 in 2020, or 10%. Since April, they are up ~2400 in 2020, or 22%.


You pointing toward Jan 2018 is farcical. If the country had locked down for then like it has now, then the number of deaths would have been a fraction of what it was, and well down on normal.

Utterly incredible ignorance here.

How could it possibly be pointed out 9 months ago? It was a novel virus 9 months ago which scientists didn't have the first f**king clue about. This is exactly the type of misinformation I am talking about. The UK 50k excess deaths in the Winter Flu season of 17/18, in the O6 the death toll of Covid has yet to hit the peak in a month of the winter flu season in 17/18.

What's farcical is you incredible willingness to dismiss facts and pedal information you know in your heart and sole that is wholly inaccurate.

What was it Goebbels, the master in propaganda said - "It's easier to fool someone, that convince them they have been fooled". Have you been fooled.

On the winter flu season, the relative comparison is 17/18. At the minute we have c300 more  deaths during Dec 21 than Dec 18 but January is where the winter flu season hit a peak in deaths that has not been matched in all of 2020. I'll be charting Covid against that period and seeing where we had the most deaths. We accepted the carnage of deaths during the winter flu season of 17/18 without even batting an eyelid so if we have less deaths during Covid in the same timeframe then it really requires flu deniers like you to have complete reevaluation of the way you dismiss flu.

Now for some stats.

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/optimized/3X/7/8/78a37ab0213d18006dda90cca0a12cffa182b4de_2_690x359.png)

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/optimized/3X/2/f/2f687b8fdb4f4cbf9041bf07ecf0124b4a6d15cf_2_690x370.png)

So 62% of Covid recorded deaths (an overstated figure as we already know) are over 80s, 95% over the age of 60s. We also know from elsewhere that 93% of people who have died have had underlying ailments. Are you telling me that flu is not a serious threat to people over the age of 80 with underlying health conditions? Or you going to deny that to.

In terms of fatality to anyone who gets the virus
0-19 - 0.008% (8 in every 100,000 positive cases)
20-39 - 0.006% (6 in every 100,000 positive cases)
40-59 - 0.3% (3 in every 1,000 positive cases)
60-79 - 4% (4 in every 100 positive cases)
80+ - 17% (17 in very 100 positive cases)

The big issue is how governments have handled it, how dysfunctional the health service is.

One of the head men in the HSE said last night that 50% of people currently with Covid in hospitals, picked up in the hospitals. That is a national scandal.

The virus is not an issue for under 60s. Governments have failed to protect the elderly and vulnerable. 50% of people in hospitals, the most vulnerable, picked up in that setting.

We also had a vaccine for the flu, so keep on denying flu is an issue. Apparently we have eradicated flu this winter so surely these measures will be around for every winter on if we are serious about saving lives?

Maybe we don't give a f**k about flu though, as many people can die from that as they wish.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 15, 2021, 09:46:40 AM
I'm glad Radiogaga cleared it all up. Very clever man
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitey on January 15, 2021, 10:26:10 AM
Was on a call for work yesterday with an expert in the virus

If we can vaccinate the 17% of the population identified the most vulnerable, we can eliminate 70% of the deaths
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on January 15, 2021, 10:32:08 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 09:38:37 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 14, 2021, 09:42:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
1. Do we test for flu? For contrast the UK has carried out a recorded 62m tests for Covid. How many flu tests have been carried out?

We don't need to test for flu because it is far less virulent and far less lethal.

This was pointed out, oh I don't know, about 9 f*kking months ago.


Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
2. How many positive cases of flu have been confirmed? There have been 3.2m confirmed cases of Covid due to the mass testing in place.

If someone has died of pneumonia without having COVID, then they won't be a COVID death.

If someone has had both, then it'll likely be attributed to COVID.

But here's the thing that you STILL aren't getting - with transmission vectors all but strangled for the flu - its more or less negligible this winter.

Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
3. Look at the arbitrary way in which we record deahts. We know that if you die within 28 days of a positive Covid test you are classified as a Covid death, arbitrarily. See snippet below from a BBC report, link attached. Also see the note on the attached on the published NISRA figures

The chart I pointed out is more detailed than the f**king BBC.

It also differentiates between factor and cause - which is different from the footer detail which applies to the catch all number. Again, you aren't reading and interpreting your own information!


Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AMFinally "beneath the 5 year average". How did the winter flu season of 17/18 read with the 5 year average prior to that? 50k excess deaths over the normal for that time of year was the reported figure for the UK. In the O6, we had a record 2,101 death toll for a month in January 2018, something yet to be surpassed during Covid as of yet. And nobody even batted an eyelid about it. Why was that?

You have the floor now. It will be interesting to see how you formulate a response, will you actually be able to address what I said with facts or will you resort to hysterical accusations, lie and insults which seems to the modus operandi from the other posters in discussing the differences here.

This is very simple. The flu of 17/18 did what it did without any significant public health measures in place to reduce transmissions as much as possible. You have seen over the past few weeks the sensitivity of transmission rates to public health measures.

Now - just think - what would the covid rates be if we did what was done in 17/18? (i.e. nothing bar a few incidentals)

Ive just done a comparison of 2020 to 2018 for NI - based on the data here (http://"https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls"), and the relative death rates are:

Jan: -21%
Feb: -12%
Mar: -7%
April: +51%
May: +24%
June: +14%
July: +9%
Aug: -5%
Sept: +26%
Oct: +12%
Nov: +32%
Dec: +34%

Over the whole year, (including your Jan 2018) deaths are up ~1500 in 2020, or 10%. Since April, they are up ~2400 in 2020, or 22%.


You pointing toward Jan 2018 is farcical. If the country had locked down for then like it has now, then the number of deaths would have been a fraction of what it was, and well down on normal.

Utterly incredible ignorance here.


;D ;D ;D The whole world has got it wrong and Angelo has got it right 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 10:44:57 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 15, 2021, 10:32:08 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 09:38:37 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 14, 2021, 09:42:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
1. Do we test for flu? For contrast the UK has carried out a recorded 62m tests for Covid. How many flu tests have been carried out?

We don't need to test for flu because it is far less virulent and far less lethal.

This was pointed out, oh I don't know, about 9 f*kking months ago.


Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
2. How many positive cases of flu have been confirmed? There have been 3.2m confirmed cases of Covid due to the mass testing in place.

If someone has died of pneumonia without having COVID, then they won't be a COVID death.

If someone has had both, then it'll likely be attributed to COVID.

But here's the thing that you STILL aren't getting - with transmission vectors all but strangled for the flu - its more or less negligible this winter.

Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
3. Look at the arbitrary way in which we record deahts. We know that if you die within 28 days of a positive Covid test you are classified as a Covid death, arbitrarily. See snippet below from a BBC report, link attached. Also see the note on the attached on the published NISRA figures

The chart I pointed out is more detailed than the f**king BBC.

It also differentiates between factor and cause - which is different from the footer detail which applies to the catch all number. Again, you aren't reading and interpreting your own information!


Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AMFinally "beneath the 5 year average". How did the winter flu season of 17/18 read with the 5 year average prior to that? 50k excess deaths over the normal for that time of year was the reported figure for the UK. In the O6, we had a record 2,101 death toll for a month in January 2018, something yet to be surpassed during Covid as of yet. And nobody even batted an eyelid about it. Why was that?

You have the floor now. It will be interesting to see how you formulate a response, will you actually be able to address what I said with facts or will you resort to hysterical accusations, lie and insults which seems to the modus operandi from the other posters in discussing the differences here.

This is very simple. The flu of 17/18 did what it did without any significant public health measures in place to reduce transmissions as much as possible. You have seen over the past few weeks the sensitivity of transmission rates to public health measures.

Now - just think - what would the covid rates be if we did what was done in 17/18? (i.e. nothing bar a few incidentals)

Ive just done a comparison of 2020 to 2018 for NI - based on the data here (http://"https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls"), and the relative death rates are:

Jan: -21%
Feb: -12%
Mar: -7%
April: +51%
May: +24%
June: +14%
July: +9%
Aug: -5%
Sept: +26%
Oct: +12%
Nov: +32%
Dec: +34%

Over the whole year, (including your Jan 2018) deaths are up ~1500 in 2020, or 10%. Since April, they are up ~2400 in 2020, or 22%.


You pointing toward Jan 2018 is farcical. If the country had locked down for then like it has now, then the number of deaths would have been a fraction of what it was, and well down on normal.

Utterly incredible ignorance here.


;D ;D ;D The whole world has got it wrong and Angelo has got it right

Nice that you ignored the rest of the post backed up by confirmed statistics, quotes and facts.

It's clear that the governments have got it wrong as we are now in Lockdown no 3 with case numbers not having dropped and spreading like wildfire in hospital settings where those most vulnerable to the virus are contained.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 15, 2021, 10:47:08 AM
I see Sweden have gone past 10,000 deaths due to Covid and their PM is facing calls to resign.

Can anyone confirm if it's true that 50% of patients in hospital with Covid got it in hospital. I didn't see that on the news or in any of the papers.

Hopefully with the Modena vaccine approved the rate of vaccinations can speed up here and around Europe. It's interesting that Germany have sourced their own supply of vaccines outside of the EU allocation to speed up the process of vaccinating everyone. When Paul Reid of the HSE was asked on Newstalk this morning wold Ireland source their own supply like he wouldn't be drawn on the idea but didn't sound like it was something Ireland would be doing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 15, 2021, 10:54:15 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 15, 2021, 10:47:08 AM
I see Sweden have gone past 10,000 deaths due to Covid and their PM is facing calls to resign.

Can anyone confirm if it's true that 50% of patients in hospital with Covid got it in hospital. I didn't see that on the news or in any of the papers.

Hopefully with the Modena vaccine approved the rate of vaccinations can speed up here and around Europe. It's interesting that Germany have sourced their own supply of vaccines outside of the EU allocation to speed up the process of vaccinating everyone. When Paul Reid of the HSE was asked on Newstalk this morning wold Ireland source their own supply like he wouldn't be drawn on the idea but didn't sound like it was something Ireland would be doing.

There is a very good reason for that. Can't very well be saving the NHS/Health Service if the media are reporting that.

No idea if it's true, anecdotally, it would appear there is some truth but you'll never hear from any media source.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 10:57:05 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 15, 2021, 10:47:08 AM
I see Sweden have gone past 10,000 deaths due to Covid and their PM is facing calls to resign.

Can anyone confirm if it's true that 50% of patients in hospital with Covid got it in hospital. I didn't see that on the news or in any of the papers.

Hopefully with the Modena vaccine approved the rate of vaccinations can speed up here and around Europe. It's interesting that Germany have sourced their own supply of vaccines outside of the EU allocation to speed up the process of vaccinating everyone. When Paul Reid of the HSE was asked on Newstalk this morning wold Ireland source their own supply like he wouldn't be drawn on the idea but didn't sound like it was something Ireland would be doing.

Dr Henry said "secondary outbreaks" are also taking place in hospitals and said the proportion of people who are acquiring Covid-19 in hospital is half of the total number of patients.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0114/1189739-vaccine-numbers/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mike Tyson on January 15, 2021, 11:15:52 AM
Angelo, few questions for you that will hopefully help me understand your approach.

1. Why are you comparing Covid to Flu?
2. You've stated that Covid in the main hit the elderly. So the majority of deaths would come from that cohort. As a consequence of this, should we not expect Jan deaths '18 to be higher than '20 given the amount of deaths on the elderly cohort already as opposed to the preceding months in 2018 - i.e there is less numbers of the elderly cohort so logically the total number of deaths should be less?
3. You've stated lockdowns don't work. What level of compliance would you say has been adhered to during lockdowns by the general public?
4. Have you any examples of areas which didn't initiate a lockdown which has successfully suppressed the spread of the virus?
5. Why are you comparing 'Winter' as Jan - Mar?

Apologies if these have been covered in previous posts but I haven't read back in detail. If they have, should be easy enough to just copy the answers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 15, 2021, 11:35:22 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 10:57:05 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 15, 2021, 10:47:08 AM
I see Sweden have gone past 10,000 deaths due to Covid and their PM is facing calls to resign.

Can anyone confirm if it's true that 50% of patients in hospital with Covid got it in hospital. I didn't see that on the news or in any of the papers.

Hopefully with the Modena vaccine approved the rate of vaccinations can speed up here and around Europe. It's interesting that Germany have sourced their own supply of vaccines outside of the EU allocation to speed up the process of vaccinating everyone. When Paul Reid of the HSE was asked on Newstalk this morning wold Ireland source their own supply like he wouldn't be drawn on the idea but didn't sound like it was something Ireland would be doing.

Dr Henry said "secondary outbreaks" are also taking place in hospitals and said the proportion of people who are acquiring Covid-19 in hospital is half of the total number of patients.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0114/1189739-vaccine-numbers/

SOME OF THE HOSPITALS. was left out the quote you copied and pasted.

If you're going to quote the doctor, at least quote him correctly. You really do see things different to everybody else
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 11:35:31 AM
Quote from: Mike Tyson on January 15, 2021, 11:15:52 AM
Angelo, few questions for you that will hopefully help me understand your approach.

1. Why are you comparing Covid to Flu?
2. You've stated that Covid in the main hit the elderly. So the majority of deaths would come from that cohort. As a consequence of this, should we not expect Jan deaths '18 to be higher than '20 given the amount of deaths on the elderly cohort already as opposed to the preceding months in 2018 - i.e there is less numbers of the elderly cohort so logically the total number of deaths should be less?
3. You've stated lockdowns don't work. What level of compliance would you say has been adhered to during lockdowns by the general public?
4. Have you any examples of areas which didn't initiate a lockdown which has successfully suppressed the spread of the virus?
5. Why are you comparing 'Winter' as Jan - Mar?

Apologies if these have been covered in previous posts but I haven't read back in detail. If they have, should be easy enough to just copy the answers.

1. Why not? They are both viruses. The only difference is we seem to accept excess death from flu every year willy nilly, record deaths in Jan 2018 - why did barely anyone bat an eyelid, a vaccine was also available. What we are being told by the health experts is that there is no flu this year. So if we locked down every winter, the death tolls would fall rapidly you expect. So why are we willing to accept deaths with flu every year but not with Covid? The number in the Winter flu season in Dec-Mar 17/18 was off the charts.

2. Old people die, it's life. As you get older your body gives up on you, what's the excess death levels like this year? Probably higher, I don't deny is a massive threat to this cohort but anymore so than flu? I don't think so, if you're 85 and have heart disease, alzheimers, cancer or any other debilitating disease, a mild enough ailment can push you over the edge. It's a sad reality of life, we don't live forever. What I'd like to see is how many of that cohort have died from cancer, heart disease, respiratory illness etc in 2020 compared to prior years. If that's fallen significantly then can we say that all they have done is substitute large numbers of deaths of one ailment for another due to the arbitrary nature of recording deaths.

3. So your saying compliance is the issue with why lockdowns don't work? Well this is lockdown no 3, the issue is why have governments not put in place better measures in that time. We were told by the WHO months back that Lockdowns should not be used as the only strategy, yet they are. People aren't complying because lockdowns are not sustainable, they are not practical. They have been proven to fail before, they will fail again.

4. I haven't said that if we don't lockdown we will suppress the virus, that is nonsense. What I have contended is the hugely damaging nature to society as a whole - the economy, employment, mental health, physical wellbeing, social interaction, support services for vulnerable groups are going to have huge and long lasting consequences. Lockdowns as you have acknowledged have not brought the no of cases down.

5. Dec - Mar is regarded as the peak months for seasonal flu. If we are comparing and contrasting the actual damage of Covid v seasonal flu we should compare them in the same area.

This virus is of minimal threat to the under 60s, virtually no threat to anyone in that age group who do not have underlying health concerns. What special provisions have governments put in place to protect those groupings? What's happening in the hospitals now is disgraceful and on government's hands.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 11:37:21 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 15, 2021, 11:35:22 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 10:57:05 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 15, 2021, 10:47:08 AM
I see Sweden have gone past 10,000 deaths due to Covid and their PM is facing calls to resign.

Can anyone confirm if it's true that 50% of patients in hospital with Covid got it in hospital. I didn't see that on the news or in any of the papers.

Hopefully with the Modena vaccine approved the rate of vaccinations can speed up here and around Europe. It's interesting that Germany have sourced their own supply of vaccines outside of the EU allocation to speed up the process of vaccinating everyone. When Paul Reid of the HSE was asked on Newstalk this morning wold Ireland source their own supply like he wouldn't be drawn on the idea but didn't sound like it was something Ireland would be doing.

Dr Henry said "secondary outbreaks" are also taking place in hospitals and said the proportion of people who are acquiring Covid-19 in hospital is half of the total number of patients.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0114/1189739-vaccine-numbers/

SOME OF THE HOSPITALS. was left out the quote you copied and pasted.

If you're going to quote the doctor, at least quote him correctly. You really do see things different to everybody else

Oh right.

So you have resorted to semantics.

It's perfectly ok now because it is some of the hospitals.

No problem at all there then, no accountability needed there then.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 15, 2021, 11:39:34 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 11:37:21 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 15, 2021, 11:35:22 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 10:57:05 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 15, 2021, 10:47:08 AM
I see Sweden have gone past 10,000 deaths due to Covid and their PM is facing calls to resign.

Can anyone confirm if it's true that 50% of patients in hospital with Covid got it in hospital. I didn't see that on the news or in any of the papers.

Hopefully with the Modena vaccine approved the rate of vaccinations can speed up here and around Europe. It's interesting that Germany have sourced their own supply of vaccines outside of the EU allocation to speed up the process of vaccinating everyone. When Paul Reid of the HSE was asked on Newstalk this morning wold Ireland source their own supply like he wouldn't be drawn on the idea but didn't sound like it was something Ireland would be doing.

Dr Henry said "secondary outbreaks" are also taking place in hospitals and said the proportion of people who are acquiring Covid-19 in hospital is half of the total number of patients.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0114/1189739-vaccine-numbers/

SOME OF THE HOSPITALS. was left out the quote you copied and pasted.

If you're going to quote the doctor, at least quote him correctly. You really do see things different to everybody else

Oh right.

So you have resorted to semantics.

It's perfectly ok now because it is some of the hospitals.

No problem at all there then, no accountability needed there then.

To use your analogy. If one person gets the flu its just one case. If some people get the flu its more serious. If everyone gets the flu it's a pandemic

Why did you delete that part from his quote though?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 11:51:47 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 15, 2021, 11:39:34 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 11:37:21 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 15, 2021, 11:35:22 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 10:57:05 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 15, 2021, 10:47:08 AM
I see Sweden have gone past 10,000 deaths due to Covid and their PM is facing calls to resign.

Can anyone confirm if it's true that 50% of patients in hospital with Covid got it in hospital. I didn't see that on the news or in any of the papers.

Hopefully with the Modena vaccine approved the rate of vaccinations can speed up here and around Europe. It's interesting that Germany have sourced their own supply of vaccines outside of the EU allocation to speed up the process of vaccinating everyone. When Paul Reid of the HSE was asked on Newstalk this morning wold Ireland source their own supply like he wouldn't be drawn on the idea but didn't sound like it was something Ireland would be doing.

Dr Henry said "secondary outbreaks" are also taking place in hospitals and said the proportion of people who are acquiring Covid-19 in hospital is half of the total number of patients.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0114/1189739-vaccine-numbers/

SOME OF THE HOSPITALS. was left out the quote you copied and pasted.

If you're going to quote the doctor, at least quote him correctly. You really do see things different to everybody else

Oh right.

So you have resorted to semantics.

It's perfectly ok now because it is some of the hospitals.

No problem at all there then, no accountability needed there then.

To use your analogy. If one person gets the flu its just one case. If some people get the flu its more serious. If everyone gets the flu it's a pandemic

Why did you delete that part from his quote though?

But the flu is widespread every winter.

The UK had 50k excess deaths during flu season in 17/18.

The north had a record high of 2,101 deaths in the bad flu season of Jan 18 - Covid has yet to reach this level of deaths in one month.

In the South you regularly have 700 people on hospital trolleys every winter waiting for hospital beds.

Is that not an annual pandemic?

This winter we are led to believe flu has been eradicated from society. So we can save all those lives we lose every winter with seasonal lockdowns you'll be happy to know. All those extra deaths you happily accept every year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 15, 2021, 12:15:06 PM
That's all been said before by you.

I'll try again - Why did you delete part of the doctor's quote when making your point?

If your going to quote someone at least tell everyone what he actually said
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 12:38:51 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 15, 2021, 12:15:06 PM
That's all been said before by you.

I'll try again - Why did you delete part of the doctor's quote when making your point?

If your going to quote someone at least tell everyone what he actually said

You're.

And you're deflecting over semantics. You clearly don't see a problem with it, which says a lot. The facts don't seem to bother you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mike Tyson on January 15, 2021, 12:45:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 11:35:31 AM
Quote from: Mike Tyson on January 15, 2021, 11:15:52 AM
Angelo, few questions for you that will hopefully help me understand your approach.

1. Why are you comparing Covid to Flu?
2. You've stated that Covid in the main hit the elderly. So the majority of deaths would come from that cohort. As a consequence of this, should we not expect Jan deaths '18 to be higher than '20 given the amount of deaths on the elderly cohort already as opposed to the preceding months in 2018 - i.e there is less numbers of the elderly cohort so logically the total number of deaths should be less?
3. You've stated lockdowns don't work. What level of compliance would you say has been adhered to during lockdowns by the general public?
4. Have you any examples of areas which didn't initiate a lockdown which has successfully suppressed the spread of the virus?
5. Why are you comparing 'Winter' as Jan - Mar?

Apologies if these have been covered in previous posts but I haven't read back in detail. If they have, should be easy enough to just copy the answers.

1. Why not? They are both viruses. The only difference is we seem to accept excess death from flu every year willy nilly, record deaths in Jan 2018 - why did barely anyone bat an eyelid, a vaccine was also available. What we are being told by the health experts is that there is no flu this year. So if we locked down every winter, the death tolls would fall rapidly you expect. So why are we willing to accept deaths with flu every year but not with Covid? The number in the Winter flu season in Dec-Mar 17/18 was off the charts.

2. Old people die, it's life. As you get older your body gives up on you, what's the excess death levels like this year? Probably higher, I don't deny is a massive threat to this cohort but anymore so than flu? I don't think so, if you're 85 and have heart disease, alzheimers, cancer or any other debilitating disease, a mild enough ailment can push you over the edge. It's a sad reality of life, we don't live forever. What I'd like to see is how many of that cohort have died from cancer, heart disease, respiratory illness etc in 2020 compared to prior years. If that's fallen significantly then can we say that all they have done is substitute large numbers of deaths of one ailment for another due to the arbitrary nature of recording deaths.

3. So your saying compliance is the issue with why lockdowns don't work? Well this is lockdown no 3, the issue is why have governments not put in place better measures in that time. We were told by the WHO months back that Lockdowns should not be used as the only strategy, yet they are. People aren't complying because lockdowns are not sustainable, they are not practical. They have been proven to fail before, they will fail again.

4. I haven't said that if we don't lockdown we will suppress the virus, that is nonsense. What I have contended is the hugely damaging nature to society as a whole - the economy, employment, mental health, physical wellbeing, social interaction, support services for vulnerable groups are going to have huge and long lasting consequences. Lockdowns as you have acknowledged have not brought the no of cases down.

5. Dec - Mar is regarded as the peak months for seasonal flu. If we are comparing and contrasting the actual damage of Covid v seasonal flu we should compare them in the same area.

This virus is of minimal threat to the under 60s, virtually no threat to anyone in that age group who do not have underlying health concerns. What special provisions have governments put in place to protect those groupings? What's happening in the hospitals now is disgraceful and on government's hands.

Thanks for replying.

1. But why particularly the flu as opposed to any other virus? Why not compare it to other Coronavirus? I don't think anyone is willing to accept deaths to be honest. I would hazard a guess that given this virus is unknown and a vaccine only now on the scene, that is why extreme measures such as lockdowns happen.
2. You're going off on a tangent here from my question - should we not expect the Jan 18 numbers to be higher than Jan 20? Regarding excess deaths, I'm unsure about this year given we are only 15 days in, however 2020 has the highest since 1945.
3. I'm asking you what do you think the level of compliance to the measures implemented has been? If compliance is the issue, more iterations of the same rules but with the same level of compliance isn't going to make a difference is it?
4. Never said you did! I'm asking for examples of areas which haven't locked down and have successfully suppressed the virus?
5. Yes agree, apologies I had thought you had referenced it as 'Winter' in the past and so was more querying your definition of winter.

Completely agree on your last sentence.

Do you believe that we should abandon lockdowns and if so what should be the approach? And genuinely do you believe they have had no bearing on the spread of Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 12:59:57 PM
Quote from: Mike Tyson on January 15, 2021, 12:45:27 PM


Thanks for replying.

1. But why particularly the flu as opposed to any other virus? Why not compare it to other Coronavirus? I don't think anyone is willing to accept deaths to be honest. I would hazard a guess that given this virus is unknown and a vaccine only now on the scene, that is why extreme measures such as lockdowns happen.
2. You're going off on a tangent here from my question - should we not expect the Jan 18 numbers to be higher than Jan 20? Regarding excess deaths, I'm unsure about this year given we are only 15 days in, however 2020 has the highest since 1945.
3. I'm asking you what do you think the level of compliance to the measures implemented has been? If compliance is the issue, more iterations of the same rules but with the same level of compliance isn't going to make a difference is it?
4. Never said you did! I'm asking for examples of areas which haven't locked down and have successfully suppressed the virus?
5. Yes agree, apologies I had thought you had referenced it as 'Winter' in the past and so was more querying your definition of winter.

Completely agree on your last sentence.

Do you believe that we should abandon lockdowns and if so what should be the approach? And genuinely do you believe they have had no bearing on the spread of Covid?

1. Because the winter flu kills annually and in particularly bad strains, it kills excessively. We have been told we have no winter flu this year, so we have had the means of getting rid of flu every winter so it turns out we actually accept deaths from flu every year, sometimes in huge waves while doing very little to combat it. This is why I find it hard to see the logic in our reaction to Covid when we accept massive death tolls on an annual basis from flu.

2. Absolutely not. If we accept such large numbers of death from flu then how can we justify the long term damages lockdowns inflict on us. It defies logic.

3. That's not my decision and I think it's irrelevant. If lockdowns are neither going to be complied with or if there is not appetite for people to comply with them, then what's the point? Why are we using them when we know they won't work? When we know they are not practical? When we know they are no sustainable? People are tired of lockdowns and restrictions so they lose their effectiveness. The problem is governments did very little in those lockdown periods and not just use them to absolve themselves of their failures.

4. They don't exist, but it's not a relevant point as Lockdowns have failed and caused countless other issues in addition to their failure.

5. Agreed.

I think lockdowns have failed and cause long lasting additional problems. I would go with reasonable restrictions and a much more focused effort on protecting the vulnerable and hospital infections.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 15, 2021, 01:29:36 PM
I wonder is flu tested? There was a poster saying flu wasn't tested
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 15, 2021, 01:54:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 12:38:51 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 15, 2021, 12:15:06 PM
That's all been said before by you.

I'll try again - Why did you delete part of the doctor's quote when making your point?

If your going to quote someone at least tell everyone what he actually said

You're.

And you're deflecting over semantics. You clearly don't see a problem with it, which says a lot. The facts don't seem to bother you.

So you're saying misquoting someone doesn't count as misrepresenting the facts? does that not bother you? You're still deflecting the question. I'll try for a 3rd time. Why did you misquote the doctor?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mike Tyson on January 15, 2021, 02:21:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 12:59:57 PM

1. Because the winter flu kills annually and in particularly bad strains, it kills excessively. We have been told we have no winter flu this year, so we have had the means of getting rid of flu every winter so it turns out we actually accept deaths from flu every year, sometimes in huge waves while doing very little to combat it. This is why I find it hard to see the logic in our reaction to Covid when we accept massive death tolls on an annual basis from flu.

2. Absolutely not. If we accept such large numbers of death from flu then how can we justify the long term damages lockdowns inflict on us. It defies logic.

3. That's not my decision and I think it's irrelevant. If lockdowns are neither going to be complied with or if there is not appetite for people to comply with them, then what's the point? Why are we using them when we know they won't work? When we know they are not practical? When we know they are no sustainable? People are tired of lockdowns and restrictions so they lose their effectiveness. The problem is governments did very little in those lockdown periods and not just use them to absolve themselves of their failures.

4. They don't exist, but it's not a relevant point as Lockdowns have failed and caused countless other issues in addition to their failure.

5. Agreed.

I think lockdowns have failed and cause long lasting additional problems. I would go with reasonable restrictions and a much more focused effort on protecting the vulnerable and hospital infections.

1. I don't think we accept deaths, we simply try to manage flu as best we can. As I stated, given this is a new virus and no one has any idea about implications of it & vaccines are only arriving on the scene I would say that's why the measures of lockdown etc have happened. I'm not an expert in anything related to infectious diseases so I could be completely wrong.
2. Again I dont think anyone is accepting deaths - I'm talking about expectations. You can expect deaths to be higher/lower for a given period but it doesnt mean the deaths are acceptable. We expect people to die on the roads for example but that doesn't mean we just accept it, we (car manufacturers etc) try to improve safety all the time.
3. Well we know that people dont pay tax, declare income, stick to the speed limits, wear their seatbeat etc but does that mean we should stop having those laws in place? This is where personal responsibility comes into the equation. Like most things, be it claiming expenses at work, keeping your dog from $hiting on public parks or not abiding by lockdown rules, it only takes a few people to take the pi$$ and ruin it for everyone. I agree people are tired of them and govts are far from blameless.
4. I wouldnt agree that they have failed, I would think they have certainly suppressed spreading the virus more than if everything was to continue as per Feb 2020. If we take New Zealand & Australia as examples of islands which implemented lockdowns at the start they seem to have coped a lot better than the island of Ireland, but maybe that speaks more about the ineptitude of the politicians on the island.

I completely agree with your last sentence again. However as touched upon in point 3, people will push it and think it shouldn't apply to them. We have seen it with masks, social bubbles etc already which then results in harsher lockdowns. Slightly off topic but every European govt saw this coming and had time to implement restrictions which would lessen the impact. Baffles me why it wasn't done. RadioGAAGAA listed actions to take at the very beginning which weren't and if they were I think we would be in a much better place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 02:37:35 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 15, 2021, 01:54:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 12:38:51 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 15, 2021, 12:15:06 PM
That's all been said before by you.

I'll try again - Why did you delete part of the doctor's quote when making your point?

If your going to quote someone at least tell everyone what he actually said

You're.

And you're deflecting over semantics. You clearly don't see a problem with it, which says a lot. The facts don't seem to bother you.

So you're saying misquoting someone doesn't count as misrepresenting the facts? does that not bother you? You're still deflecting the question. I'll try for a 3rd time. Why did you misquote the doctor?


And again why are you focusing on the semantics rather than the core issue.

Will you address the core issue at all or are you just interested in talking about something else?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on January 15, 2021, 03:08:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 10:44:57 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 15, 2021, 10:32:08 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 09:38:37 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 14, 2021, 09:42:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
1. Do we test for flu? For contrast the UK has carried out a recorded 62m tests for Covid. How many flu tests have been carried out?

We don't need to test for flu because it is far less virulent and far less lethal.

This was pointed out, oh I don't know, about 9 f*kking months ago.


Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
2. How many positive cases of flu have been confirmed? There have been 3.2m confirmed cases of Covid due to the mass testing in place.

If someone has died of pneumonia without having COVID, then they won't be a COVID death.

If someone has had both, then it'll likely be attributed to COVID.

But here's the thing that you STILL aren't getting - with transmission vectors all but strangled for the flu - its more or less negligible this winter.

Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
3. Look at the arbitrary way in which we record deahts. We know that if you die within 28 days of a positive Covid test you are classified as a Covid death, arbitrarily. See snippet below from a BBC report, link attached. Also see the note on the attached on the published NISRA figures

The chart I pointed out is more detailed than the f**king BBC.

It also differentiates between factor and cause - which is different from the footer detail which applies to the catch all number. Again, you aren't reading and interpreting your own information!


Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AMFinally "beneath the 5 year average". How did the winter flu season of 17/18 read with the 5 year average prior to that? 50k excess deaths over the normal for that time of year was the reported figure for the UK. In the O6, we had a record 2,101 death toll for a month in January 2018, something yet to be surpassed during Covid as of yet. And nobody even batted an eyelid about it. Why was that?

You have the floor now. It will be interesting to see how you formulate a response, will you actually be able to address what I said with facts or will you resort to hysterical accusations, lie and insults which seems to the modus operandi from the other posters in discussing the differences here.

This is very simple. The flu of 17/18 did what it did without any significant public health measures in place to reduce transmissions as much as possible. You have seen over the past few weeks the sensitivity of transmission rates to public health measures.

Now - just think - what would the covid rates be if we did what was done in 17/18? (i.e. nothing bar a few incidentals)

Ive just done a comparison of 2020 to 2018 for NI - based on the data here (http://"https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls"), and the relative death rates are:

Jan: -21%
Feb: -12%
Mar: -7%
April: +51%
May: +24%
June: +14%
July: +9%
Aug: -5%
Sept: +26%
Oct: +12%
Nov: +32%
Dec: +34%

Over the whole year, (including your Jan 2018) deaths are up ~1500 in 2020, or 10%. Since April, they are up ~2400 in 2020, or 22%.


You pointing toward Jan 2018 is farcical. If the country had locked down for then like it has now, then the number of deaths would have been a fraction of what it was, and well down on normal.

Utterly incredible ignorance here.


;D ;D ;D The whole world has got it wrong and Angelo has got it right

Nice that you ignored the rest of the post backed up by confirmed statistics, quotes and facts.

It's clear that the governments have got it wrong as we are now in Lockdown no 3 with case numbers not having dropped and spreading like wildfire in hospital settings where those most vulnerable to the virus are contained.
Look I couldn't be bothered to debate with you. As someone has already pointed out this whole thread has turned in to a different poster taking up the mantle daily for a rebuttal to your posts, and you continually fail to even look at or interpret correctly the simple stats and information presented to you. Fair play to you, you have invested some time and energy in to your preposterous stance, but again as another poster has pointed out, you have won not a single person over. Maybe you could ask yourself why you think that is?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 15, 2021, 03:11:12 PM
Has any Government gone with "Angelo's way" or are they sticking with the WHO's way of dealing with the Pandemic?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 15, 2021, 03:40:57 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 15, 2021, 03:08:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 10:44:57 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 15, 2021, 10:32:08 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 09:38:37 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 14, 2021, 09:42:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
1. Do we test for flu? For contrast the UK has carried out a recorded 62m tests for Covid. How many flu tests have been carried out?

We don't need to test for flu because it is far less virulent and far less lethal.

This was pointed out, oh I don't know, about 9 f*kking months ago.


Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
2. How many positive cases of flu have been confirmed? There have been 3.2m confirmed cases of Covid due to the mass testing in place.

If someone has died of pneumonia without having COVID, then they won't be a COVID death.

If someone has had both, then it'll likely be attributed to COVID.

But here's the thing that you STILL aren't getting - with transmission vectors all but strangled for the flu - its more or less negligible this winter.

Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
3. Look at the arbitrary way in which we record deahts. We know that if you die within 28 days of a positive Covid test you are classified as a Covid death, arbitrarily. See snippet below from a BBC report, link attached. Also see the note on the attached on the published NISRA figures

The chart I pointed out is more detailed than the f**king BBC.

It also differentiates between factor and cause - which is different from the footer detail which applies to the catch all number. Again, you aren't reading and interpreting your own information!


Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AMFinally "beneath the 5 year average". How did the winter flu season of 17/18 read with the 5 year average prior to that? 50k excess deaths over the normal for that time of year was the reported figure for the UK. In the O6, we had a record 2,101 death toll for a month in January 2018, something yet to be surpassed during Covid as of yet. And nobody even batted an eyelid about it. Why was that?

You have the floor now. It will be interesting to see how you formulate a response, will you actually be able to address what I said with facts or will you resort to hysterical accusations, lie and insults which seems to the modus operandi from the other posters in discussing the differences here.

This is very simple. The flu of 17/18 did what it did without any significant public health measures in place to reduce transmissions as much as possible. You have seen over the past few weeks the sensitivity of transmission rates to public health measures.

Now - just think - what would the covid rates be if we did what was done in 17/18? (i.e. nothing bar a few incidentals)

Ive just done a comparison of 2020 to 2018 for NI - based on the data here (http://"https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls"), and the relative death rates are:

Jan: -21%
Feb: -12%
Mar: -7%
April: +51%
May: +24%
June: +14%
July: +9%
Aug: -5%
Sept: +26%
Oct: +12%
Nov: +32%
Dec: +34%

Over the whole year, (including your Jan 2018) deaths are up ~1500 in 2020, or 10%. Since April, they are up ~2400 in 2020, or 22%.


You pointing toward Jan 2018 is farcical. If the country had locked down for then like it has now, then the number of deaths would have been a fraction of what it was, and well down on normal.

Utterly incredible ignorance here.


;D ;D ;D The whole world has got it wrong and Angelo has got it right

Nice that you ignored the rest of the post backed up by confirmed statistics, quotes and facts.

It's clear that the governments have got it wrong as we are now in Lockdown no 3 with case numbers not having dropped and spreading like wildfire in hospital settings where those most vulnerable to the virus are contained.
Look I couldn't be bothered to debate with you. As someone has already pointed out this whole thread has turned in to a different poster taking up the mantle daily for a rebuttal to your posts, and you continually fail to even look at or interpret correctly the simple stats and information presented to you. Fair play to you, you have invested some time and energy in to your preposterous stance, but again as another poster has pointed out, you have won not a single person over. Maybe you could ask yourself why you think that is?

What furlough is for, spending days productively
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 03:51:53 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 15, 2021, 03:08:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 10:44:57 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 15, 2021, 10:32:08 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 09:38:37 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 14, 2021, 09:42:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
1. Do we test for flu? For contrast the UK has carried out a recorded 62m tests for Covid. How many flu tests have been carried out?

We don't need to test for flu because it is far less virulent and far less lethal.

This was pointed out, oh I don't know, about 9 f*kking months ago.


Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
2. How many positive cases of flu have been confirmed? There have been 3.2m confirmed cases of Covid due to the mass testing in place.

If someone has died of pneumonia without having COVID, then they won't be a COVID death.

If someone has had both, then it'll likely be attributed to COVID.

But here's the thing that you STILL aren't getting - with transmission vectors all but strangled for the flu - its more or less negligible this winter.

Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
3. Look at the arbitrary way in which we record deahts. We know that if you die within 28 days of a positive Covid test you are classified as a Covid death, arbitrarily. See snippet below from a BBC report, link attached. Also see the note on the attached on the published NISRA figures

The chart I pointed out is more detailed than the f**king BBC.

It also differentiates between factor and cause - which is different from the footer detail which applies to the catch all number. Again, you aren't reading and interpreting your own information!


Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AMFinally "beneath the 5 year average". How did the winter flu season of 17/18 read with the 5 year average prior to that? 50k excess deaths over the normal for that time of year was the reported figure for the UK. In the O6, we had a record 2,101 death toll for a month in January 2018, something yet to be surpassed during Covid as of yet. And nobody even batted an eyelid about it. Why was that?

You have the floor now. It will be interesting to see how you formulate a response, will you actually be able to address what I said with facts or will you resort to hysterical accusations, lie and insults which seems to the modus operandi from the other posters in discussing the differences here.

This is very simple. The flu of 17/18 did what it did without any significant public health measures in place to reduce transmissions as much as possible. You have seen over the past few weeks the sensitivity of transmission rates to public health measures.

Now - just think - what would the covid rates be if we did what was done in 17/18? (i.e. nothing bar a few incidentals)

Ive just done a comparison of 2020 to 2018 for NI - based on the data here (http://"https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls"), and the relative death rates are:

Jan: -21%
Feb: -12%
Mar: -7%
April: +51%
May: +24%
June: +14%
July: +9%
Aug: -5%
Sept: +26%
Oct: +12%
Nov: +32%
Dec: +34%

Over the whole year, (including your Jan 2018) deaths are up ~1500 in 2020, or 10%. Since April, they are up ~2400 in 2020, or 22%.


You pointing toward Jan 2018 is farcical. If the country had locked down for then like it has now, then the number of deaths would have been a fraction of what it was, and well down on normal.

Utterly incredible ignorance here.


;D ;D ;D The whole world has got it wrong and Angelo has got it right

Nice that you ignored the rest of the post backed up by confirmed statistics, quotes and facts.

It's clear that the governments have got it wrong as we are now in Lockdown no 3 with case numbers not having dropped and spreading like wildfire in hospital settings where those most vulnerable to the virus are contained.
Look I couldn't be bothered to debate with you. As someone has already pointed out this whole thread has turned in to a different poster taking up the mantle daily for a rebuttal to your posts, and you continually fail to even look at or interpret correctly the simple stats and information presented to you. Fair play to you, you have invested some time and energy in to your preposterous stance, but again as another poster has pointed out, you have won not a single person over. Maybe you could ask yourself why you think that is?

We know you couldn't be bothered debating with me - you can't.

It's easier to fool someone than convince someone they have been fooled.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 03:52:47 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 15, 2021, 03:11:12 PM
Has any Government gone with "Angelo's way" or are they sticking with the WHO's way of dealing with the Pandemic?

How are we getting on with the pandemic btw?

Cases still ramping up all over the world?

Not the brightest chap, are you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 15, 2021, 04:04:42 PM
Do you ever ask yourself who the WHO really are? The fact they have their HQ in Switzerland says a lot. I wouldn't trust everything they come out with.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 15, 2021, 04:06:09 PM
I'm wondering if anyone here has realised that what a bunch of slabbers write on a discussion board doesn't make any actual difference to the pandemic itself. Unless we've got some incognito Government ministers or WHO officials?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 15, 2021, 04:16:49 PM
Will someone buy Bennycake a tinfoil hat?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 15, 2021, 04:18:06 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 15, 2021, 04:04:42 PM
Do you ever ask yourself who the WHO really are? The fact they have their HQ in Switzerland says a lot. I wouldn't trust everything they come out with.

What does the fact they have their HQ in Switzerland say?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 04:20:57 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 15, 2021, 04:18:06 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 15, 2021, 04:04:42 PM
Do you ever ask yourself who the WHO really are? The fact they have their HQ in Switzerland says a lot. I wouldn't trust everything they come out with.

What does the fact they have their HQ in Switzerland say?

It's where dirty money is kept.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 15, 2021, 04:33:22 PM
Don't say anything bad about the WHO theres an Irish guy high up there ffs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 04:38:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 15, 2021, 04:33:22 PM
Don't say anything bad about the WHO theres an Irish guy high up there ffs

You can kind of see why Irish society accepted stuff like the mother and baby homes when you see contributions from Rossfan and don't dare question the WHO or govt on this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on January 15, 2021, 05:30:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 03:51:53 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 15, 2021, 03:08:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 10:44:57 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 15, 2021, 10:32:08 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 09:38:37 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 14, 2021, 09:42:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
1. Do we test for flu? For contrast the UK has carried out a recorded 62m tests for Covid. How many flu tests have been carried out?

We don't need to test for flu because it is far less virulent and far less lethal.

This was pointed out, oh I don't know, about 9 f*kking months ago.


Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
2. How many positive cases of flu have been confirmed? There have been 3.2m confirmed cases of Covid due to the mass testing in place.

If someone has died of pneumonia without having COVID, then they won't be a COVID death.

If someone has had both, then it'll likely be attributed to COVID.

But here's the thing that you STILL aren't getting - with transmission vectors all but strangled for the flu - its more or less negligible this winter.

Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AM
3. Look at the arbitrary way in which we record deahts. We know that if you die within 28 days of a positive Covid test you are classified as a Covid death, arbitrarily. See snippet below from a BBC report, link attached. Also see the note on the attached on the published NISRA figures

The chart I pointed out is more detailed than the f**king BBC.

It also differentiates between factor and cause - which is different from the footer detail which applies to the catch all number. Again, you aren't reading and interpreting your own information!


Quote from: Angelo on January 14, 2021, 09:52:23 AMFinally "beneath the 5 year average". How did the winter flu season of 17/18 read with the 5 year average prior to that? 50k excess deaths over the normal for that time of year was the reported figure for the UK. In the O6, we had a record 2,101 death toll for a month in January 2018, something yet to be surpassed during Covid as of yet. And nobody even batted an eyelid about it. Why was that?

You have the floor now. It will be interesting to see how you formulate a response, will you actually be able to address what I said with facts or will you resort to hysterical accusations, lie and insults which seems to the modus operandi from the other posters in discussing the differences here.

This is very simple. The flu of 17/18 did what it did without any significant public health measures in place to reduce transmissions as much as possible. You have seen over the past few weeks the sensitivity of transmission rates to public health measures.

Now - just think - what would the covid rates be if we did what was done in 17/18? (i.e. nothing bar a few incidentals)

Ive just done a comparison of 2020 to 2018 for NI - based on the data here (http://"https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls"), and the relative death rates are:

Jan: -21%
Feb: -12%
Mar: -7%
April: +51%
May: +24%
June: +14%
July: +9%
Aug: -5%
Sept: +26%
Oct: +12%
Nov: +32%
Dec: +34%

Over the whole year, (including your Jan 2018) deaths are up ~1500 in 2020, or 10%. Since April, they are up ~2400 in 2020, or 22%.


You pointing toward Jan 2018 is farcical. If the country had locked down for then like it has now, then the number of deaths would have been a fraction of what it was, and well down on normal.

Utterly incredible ignorance here.


;D ;D ;D The whole world has got it wrong and Angelo has got it right

Nice that you ignored the rest of the post backed up by confirmed statistics, quotes and facts.

It's clear that the governments have got it wrong as we are now in Lockdown no 3 with case numbers not having dropped and spreading like wildfire in hospital settings where those most vulnerable to the virus are contained.
Look I couldn't be bothered to debate with you. As someone has already pointed out this whole thread has turned in to a different poster taking up the mantle daily for a rebuttal to your posts, and you continually fail to even look at or interpret correctly the simple stats and information presented to you. Fair play to you, you have invested some time and energy in to your preposterous stance, but again as another poster has pointed out, you have won not a single person over. Maybe you could ask yourself why you think that is?

We know you couldn't be bothered debating with me - you can't.

It's easier to fool someone than convince someone they have been fooled.

Angelo....the Jamie Bryson of the GAABoard.
Doesn't deserve the airtime and certainly not capable of seeing any perspective but his own.
But if you don't take him too seriously his posts are a good laugh.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on January 15, 2021, 05:38:13 PM
His posts are a good laugh alright unless you take them seriously.

And given the situation we are in he can be downright dangerous if anyone does take them seriously.

If everyone gave him a wide berth (given he cant see any other viewpoint other than his own & refuses to answer questions if it doesnt suit his agenda) it would mean he is left talking to himself and threads wouldnt be polluted

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 15, 2021, 05:44:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 15, 2021, 04:33:22 PM
Don't say anything bad about the WHO theres an Irish guy high up there ffs

So they're to be trusted because there's an Irishman on board? Strange logic that.

Sure Bono joined the big boys in their sinister club, and I wouldn't trust them either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 15, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 04:38:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 15, 2021, 04:33:22 PM
Don't say anything bad about the WHO theres an Irish guy high up there ffs

You can kind of see why Irish society accepted stuff like the mother and baby homes when you see contributions from Rossfan and don't dare question the WHO or govt on this.

best place to question them ison a gaaboard. Irish society is saved by Angelo questioning...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 15, 2021, 06:32:17 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 15, 2021, 05:44:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 15, 2021, 04:33:22 PM
Don't say anything bad about the WHO theres an Irish guy high up there ffs

So they're to be trusted because there's an Irishman on board? Strange logic that.

Sure Bono joined the big boys in their sinister club, and I wouldn't trust them either.
I was being a little sarcastic Johnny cake
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 15, 2021, 07:16:32 PM
Shocking how the virus is going on in Brazil, president is a complete twat!

The problems in Manaus is critical, no beds no oxygen, nurses are manually providing oxygen!!

70% infection rate during first wave, they were hoping to get herd immunity from that, which didn't work, it's getting worse in the second wave!

But sure if you don't lockdown properly you're bate, shut down the borders
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 15, 2021, 07:50:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 15, 2021, 04:04:42 PM
Do you ever ask yourself who the WHO really are? The fact they have their HQ in Switzerland says a lot. I wouldn't trust everything they come out with.

You do know who they are. They're a big pack of cabal baddies and they are after you Benny. Stay safe, buy an extra bolt for the door and batter them with your bong if and when they invade your home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 15, 2021, 08:03:38 PM
A scale of what has happened across a few countries  one death per
USA 1-870
Uk  1-850
ROI. 1-1800
Germany 1-1886
France 1-957
Spain 1-896
Colombia 1-1052
Argentina 1-1000
Brazil 1-1000
Russia 1-2268
Poland 1-1170
Numbers that are out there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 15, 2021, 08:22:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 15, 2021, 04:04:42 PM
Do you ever ask yourself who the WHO really are? The fact they have their HQ in Switzerland says a lot. I wouldn't trust everything they come out with.

Instead you will trust whatever Boris Johnson, Matt Hancock or some Joe Blogg conspiracy lad says on YouTube?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 15, 2021, 08:32:25 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 15, 2021, 08:22:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 15, 2021, 04:04:42 PM
Do you ever ask yourself who the WHO really are? The fact they have their HQ in Switzerland says a lot. I wouldn't trust everything they come out with.

Instead you will trust whatever Boris Johnson, Matt Hancock or some Joe Blogg conspiracy lad says on YouTube?

Was an Asian guy on the channel four news the other night, Birmingham, he said his get so many mixed message on social media that he can't make his mind up one way or the other!

It's a good thing he's not in here ;D

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 15, 2021, 08:42:58 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 15, 2021, 08:22:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 15, 2021, 04:04:42 PM
Do you ever ask yourself who the WHO really are? The fact they have their HQ in Switzerland says a lot. I wouldn't trust everything they come out with.

Instead you will trust whatever Boris Johnson, Matt Hancock or some Joe Blogg conspiracy lad says on YouTube?

I never said I trusted any of those.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 15, 2021, 09:01:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 15, 2021, 08:03:38 PM
A scale of what has happened across a few countries  one death per
USA 1-870
Uk  1-850

But people post that 99.99% of people don't die from Covid when 0.13% have already died and most people haven't had it!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 15, 2021, 09:06:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 15, 2021, 09:01:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 15, 2021, 08:03:38 PM
A scale of what has happened across a few countries  one death per
USA 1-870
Uk  1-850

But people post that 99.99% of people don't die from Covid when 0.13% have already died and most people haven't had it!
obviously this does not bring age and health status into account but they are quite alarming numbers .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 09:34:30 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 15, 2021, 08:22:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 15, 2021, 04:04:42 PM
Do you ever ask yourself who the WHO really are? The fact they have their HQ in Switzerland says a lot. I wouldn't trust everything they come out with.

Instead you will trust whatever Boris Johnson, Matt Hancock or some Joe Blogg conspiracy lad says on YouTube?


Think you lads are more likely to trust Johnson or Hancock.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 09:35:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 15, 2021, 09:01:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 15, 2021, 08:03:38 PM
A scale of what has happened across a few countries  one death per
USA 1-870
Uk  1-850

But people post that 99.99% of people don't die from Covid when 0.13% have already died and most people haven't had it!

So it's 99.86% rather than 99.99%?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 15, 2021, 09:40:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 15, 2021, 08:03:38 PM
A scale of what has happened across a few countries  one death per
USA 1-870
Uk  1-850
ROI. 1-1800

Numbers that are out there.
2,536 Covid related deaths in RofIrl.
5m pop = 1 in 507..

You're too long  getting your "facts"  from Trump and his Stormabteilung
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: CK_Redhand on January 15, 2021, 09:43:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 15, 2021, 09:40:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 15, 2021, 08:03:38 PM
A scale of what has happened across a few countries  one death per
USA 1-870
Uk  1-850
ROI. 1-1800

Numbers that are out there.
2,536 Covid related deaths in RofIrl.
5m pop = 1 in 507..

You're too long  getting your "facts"  from Trump and his Stormabteilung
Try the maths again Rossfan
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 15, 2021, 09:57:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 15, 2021, 09:40:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 15, 2021, 08:03:38 PM
A scale of what has happened across a few countries  one death per
USA 1-870
Uk  1-850
ROI. 1-1800

Numbers that are out there.
2,536 Covid related deaths in RofIrl.
5m pop = 1 in 507..

You're too long  getting your "facts"  from Trump and his Stormabteilung
i used 4.5 million didn't know it was 4.9 anyway that is 1-1932
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 16, 2021, 12:04:18 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 15, 2021, 09:40:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 15, 2021, 08:03:38 PM
A scale of what has happened across a few countries  one death per
USA 1-870
Uk  1-850
ROI. 1-1800

Numbers that are out there.
2,536 Covid related deaths in RofIrl.
5m pop = 1 in 507..

You're too long  getting your "facts"  from Trump and his Stormabteilung
my facts don't care about your feelings
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 16, 2021, 02:27:30 PM
Angelo will be annoyed no doubt

https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-40208093.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 02:42:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 16, 2021, 02:27:30 PM
Angelo will be annoyed no doubt

https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-40208093.html

Maybe you should give them a few tax breaks.

Oh wait, you've already done that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 16, 2021, 04:44:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 09:34:30 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 15, 2021, 08:22:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 15, 2021, 04:04:42 PM
Do you ever ask yourself who the WHO really are? The fact they have their HQ in Switzerland says a lot. I wouldn't trust everything they come out with.

Instead you will trust whatever Boris Johnson, Matt Hancock or some Joe Blogg conspiracy lad says on YouTube?


Think you lads are more likely to trust Johnson or Hancock.

I'd trust the local drunk before them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 04:59:31 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 16, 2021, 04:44:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 09:34:30 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 15, 2021, 08:22:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 15, 2021, 04:04:42 PM
Do you ever ask yourself who the WHO really are? The fact they have their HQ in Switzerland says a lot. I wouldn't trust everything they come out with.

Instead you will trust whatever Boris Johnson, Matt Hancock or some Joe Blogg conspiracy lad says on YouTube?


Think you lads are more likely to trust Johnson or Hancock.

I'd trust the local drunk before them.

Yet you're rowing in behind their decisions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 16, 2021, 06:00:44 PM
60 deaths in the south today
Median age 85 would suggest care homes are the main source again
Absolutely criminal that they let that happen again
3 years above the life expectancy
Has to be carehomes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 06:05:14 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 16, 2021, 06:00:44 PM
60 deaths in the south today
Median age 85 would suggest care homes are the main source again
Absolutely criminal that they let that happen again
3 years above the life expectancy
Has to be carehomes

They will try and blame in on society as a whole again and the sheeple like Rossfan and dublin7 will lap it up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 16, 2021, 07:25:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 09:38:37 AMthen it really requires flu deniers like you to have complete reevaluation of the way you dismiss flu.

Are you telling me that flu is not a serious threat to people over the age of 80 with underlying health conditions?

What do you mean by the first line and when have I ever hinted at anything like the thought train in the 2nd line?

The flu vaccine wasn't developed, updated annually and distributed (at massive cost) just for the craic of it...

Of course - when you have vaccine denying fruitcakes around, it really doesn't help convince those that need it to get it - as unfortunately the elderly are more susceptible to be swayed by idiots they know rather than experts they don't.


Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 09:38:37 AM
We also had a vaccine for the flu, so keep on denying flu is an issue. Apparently we have eradicated flu this winter so surely these measures will be around for every winter on if we are serious about saving lives?
Maybe we don't give a f**k about flu though, as many people can die from that as they wish.

That is not a bad question re. measures over winter to reduce the spread of flu. Certainly, in Asian countries, wearing a mask when you do have a cold or worse is often seen as socially the norm - whereas here - for whatever reason, its carry on regardless.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 16, 2021, 07:31:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 04:59:31 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 16, 2021, 04:44:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 09:34:30 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 15, 2021, 08:22:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 15, 2021, 04:04:42 PM
Do you ever ask yourself who the WHO really are? The fact they have their HQ in Switzerland says a lot. I wouldn't trust everything they come out with.

Instead you will trust whatever Boris Johnson, Matt Hancock or some Joe Blogg conspiracy lad says on YouTube?


Think you lads are more likely to trust Johnson or Hancock.

I'd trust the local drunk before them.

Yet you're rowing in behind their decisions.
Going by your posts on here you are glued to conspiracy lads on YouTube.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 16, 2021, 07:32:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 15, 2021, 03:11:12 PM
Has any Government gone with "Angelo's way" or are they sticking with the WHO's way of dealing with the Pandemic?

To be honest, the WHO haven't covered themselves in glory here either.

At the start, air travel should have been far more restricted - they recommended otherwise.

Now, 12 months later - and with the new variants they are starting to consider restricting travel between countries. Its common sense that if people don't travel far then the thing doesn't spread far - or if it does - it has to do so through every link in the chain. Feck knows how many Ebola epidemics burned themselves out in a few villages in Africa down the centuries - all because no-one travelled far and carried the thing out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 16, 2021, 07:35:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 06:05:14 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 16, 2021, 06:00:44 PM
60 deaths in the south today
Median age 85 would suggest care homes are the main source again
Absolutely criminal that they let that happen again
3 years above the life expectancy
Has to be carehomes

They will try and blame in on society as a whole again and the sheeple like Rossfan and dublin7 will lap it up.

The most vulnerable people to the virus are the elderly. The majority of people in nursing homes are elderly. So if one person gets it then it's likely to spread like wildfire.

It's disappointing that people would celebrate these figures as if to prove their point of view and some sort of sick vindication of their opinions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 16, 2021, 07:47:12 PM
There are people and then there's you know who  ::)
The only way you'd have kept nursing homes free of Covid would have been to allow no visitors and make all the staff live in.
Once the thing spread in the community it was going to get in and  with the demograph of aged frail patients ......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 16, 2021, 07:56:31 PM
I think it is tough with how staff seem to work in those homes. Seems there would be staff doing it for extra money etc so I think staff go from hospital to there quite a bit. Incredibly hard to keep it out of them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 16, 2021, 08:41:03 PM
Sorry wasn't trying to downplay any death
Was just flagging up the median age
The big question is when the old and vulnerable are vaccinated what reason would we need to lockdown
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 08:50:47 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 16, 2021, 07:31:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 04:59:31 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 16, 2021, 04:44:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 15, 2021, 09:34:30 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 15, 2021, 08:22:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 15, 2021, 04:04:42 PM
Do you ever ask yourself who the WHO really are? The fact they have their HQ in Switzerland says a lot. I wouldn't trust everything they come out with.

Instead you will trust whatever Boris Johnson, Matt Hancock or some Joe Blogg conspiracy lad says on YouTube?


Think you lads are more likely to trust Johnson or Hancock.

I'd trust the local drunk before them.

Yet you're rowing in behind their decisions.
Going by your posts on here you are glued to conspiracy lads on YouTube.

What conspiracy theories have I promoted?

It's the lazy option for guys like you to label people who have a differing viewpoint to you as conspiracy theorists.

Funny that was the narrative of the British establishment and unionism when it came to collusion between loyalists paramilitaries and security forces.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 16, 2021, 09:55:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 15, 2021, 07:16:32 PM
The problems in Manaus is critical, no beds no oxygen, nurses are manually providing oxygen!!

70% infection rate during first wave, they were hoping to get herd immunity from that, which didn't work, it's getting worse in the second wave!

Do you have a source for that? I want to read more around it.


That is extremely concerning.

If the infection rate is worse now and they had 70% immunity first time around - it clearly indicates that the immunity built up from the first infection wave is of little use.

Which means its quite likely that variant will bypass any vaccine induced immunity too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 10:04:17 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 16, 2021, 07:35:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 06:05:14 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 16, 2021, 06:00:44 PM
60 deaths in the south today
Median age 85 would suggest care homes are the main source again
Absolutely criminal that they let that happen again
3 years above the life expectancy
Has to be carehomes

They will try and blame in on society as a whole again and the sheeple like Rossfan and dublin7 will lap it up.

The most vulnerable people to the virus are the elderly. The majority of people in nursing homes are elderly. So if one person gets it then it's likely to spread like wildfire.

It's disappointing that people would celebrate these figures as if to prove their point of view and some sort of sick vindication of their opinions.

You seem to be celebrating the fact that big pharma profiteers out of making money that is killing the elderly off over in Norway.

The failure is not protecting the elderly, the outbreaks in hospital and care home settings is a failure of health service, it is a byproduct of governments under funding and underresourcing health care and that is where the responsibility lies.

But rather than blame those responsible you seek to laud them, your cheerleading of the absolutely disgusting practices of big pharma takes the biscuit though. I've seen your contradictions first hand when the vaccine kills the old you are in there defending it first hand, refusing to believe published evidence by medical authorities, citing that they died because of old age and poor health.

When the common denominator of Covid deaths is shown to be old age and poor health, you point blank refuse that those factors had anything to do with the deaths and it was Covid that killed them.

You are bound by your contradictions and your defence of big pharma is utterly, utterly disgusting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2021, 10:21:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 16, 2021, 09:55:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 15, 2021, 07:16:32 PM
The problems in Manaus is critical, no beds no oxygen, nurses are manually providing oxygen!!

70% infection rate during first wave, they were hoping to get herd immunity from that, which didn't work, it's getting worse in the second wave!

Do you have a source for that? I want to read more around it.


That is extremely concerning.

If the infection rate is worse now and they had 70% immunity first time around - it clearly indicates that the immunity built up from the first infection wave is of little use.

Which means its quite likely that variant will bypass any vaccine induced immunity too.

Was directly from the channel four news, as you can see from the time I posted
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 16, 2021, 10:39:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 10:04:17 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 16, 2021, 07:35:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 06:05:14 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 16, 2021, 06:00:44 PM
60 deaths in the south today
Median age 85 would suggest care homes are the main source again
Absolutely criminal that they let that happen again
3 years above the life expectancy
Has to be carehomes

They will try and blame in on society as a whole again and the sheeple like Rossfan and dublin7 will lap it up.

The most vulnerable people to the virus are the elderly. The majority of people in nursing homes are elderly. So if one person gets it then it's likely to spread like wildfire.

It's disappointing that people would celebrate these figures as if to prove their point of view and some sort of sick vindication of their opinions.

You seem to be celebrating the fact that big pharma profiteers out of making money that is killing the elderly off over in Norway.

The failure is not protecting the elderly, the outbreaks in hospital and care home settings is a failure of health service, it is a byproduct of governments under funding and underresourcing health care and that is where the responsibility lies.

But rather than blame those responsible you seek to laud them, your cheerleading of the absolutely disgusting practices of big pharma takes the biscuit though. I've seen your contradictions first hand when the vaccine kills the old you are in there defending it first hand, refusing to believe published evidence by medical authorities, citing that they died because of old age and poor health.

When the common denominator of Covid deaths is shown to be old age and poor health, you point blank refuse that those factors had anything to do with the deaths and it was Covid that killed them.

You are bound by your contradictions and your defence of big pharma is utterly, utterly disgusting.

As you like quoting people or stories (that you don't seem to read judging by your replies to these links) can you link a quote or a story were anybody said a Covid vaccine killed someone. Even one.

There are concerns over how effective the effective might be at protecting the elderly, but not one person has claimed the vaccine has killed anyone. 

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 08:37:57 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 16, 2021, 10:39:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 10:04:17 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 16, 2021, 07:35:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 06:05:14 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 16, 2021, 06:00:44 PM
60 deaths in the south today
Median age 85 would suggest care homes are the main source again
Absolutely criminal that they let that happen again
3 years above the life expectancy
Has to be carehomes

They will try and blame in on society as a whole again and the sheeple like Rossfan and dublin7 will lap it up.

The most vulnerable people to the virus are the elderly. The majority of people in nursing homes are elderly. So if one person gets it then it's likely to spread like wildfire.

It's disappointing that people would celebrate these figures as if to prove their point of view and some sort of sick vindication of their opinions.

You seem to be celebrating the fact that big pharma profiteers out of making money that is killing the elderly off over in Norway.

The failure is not protecting the elderly, the outbreaks in hospital and care home settings is a failure of health service, it is a byproduct of governments under funding and underresourcing health care and that is where the responsibility lies.

But rather than blame those responsible you seek to laud them, your cheerleading of the absolutely disgusting practices of big pharma takes the biscuit though. I've seen your contradictions first hand when the vaccine kills the old you are in there defending it first hand, refusing to believe published evidence by medical authorities, citing that they died because of old age and poor health.

When the common denominator of Covid deaths is shown to be old age and poor health, you point blank refuse that those factors had anything to do with the deaths and it was Covid that killed them.

You are bound by your contradictions and your defence of big pharma is utterly, utterly disgusting.

As you like quoting people or stories (that you don't seem to read judging by your replies to these links) can you link a quote or a story were anybody said a Covid vaccine killed someone. Even one.

There are concerns over how effective the effective might be at protecting the elderly, but not one person has claimed the vaccine has killed anyone.

I have done so multiple times. The Norwegian Health agency have attributed deaths to the vaccines, you have been given the link previously and all you have attempted to do is spin.

In those articles it very clearly states the reaction to the vaccine was the cause of death. It's not in anyway ambiguous on it so I think it really outlines to the whole forum that you have a clear agenda at play and we have seen it before

When we have direct quotes from a top ranking HSE official that the virus is spreading like wildfire in hospital settings you deny it.

When we have direct quotes that the vaccine was responsible for the dates of the elderly in Norway, you deny it.

When we have record fines and judgements against big pharma of kickbacks and inducements to put unsafe drugs on the market, you deny it.

There's a pattern here and it seems you have no respect for the truth.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 17, 2021, 08:49:10 AM
You can't find anyone who said the vaccine is responsible for any deaths then? That's fine.

When faced with something you can't answer you go to your usual line of I've answered/posted it, go back and find it, but we all know it never actually happened. Or alternatively ignore it and go down some tangent to deflect from the point.

You've done both here I see.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 09:08:55 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 17, 2021, 08:49:10 AM
You can't find anyone who said the vaccine is responsible for any deaths then? That's fine.

When faced with something you can't answer you go to your usual line of I've answered/posted it, go back and find it, but we all know it never actually happened. Or alternatively ignore it and go down some tangent to deflect from the point.

You've done both here I see.

I have. You read those quotes before, you have links to the article. It very clearly lays the cause of death to the vaccine.

You see there is a flowing pattern of you denying facts here, as I have outlined in my previous post. The truth is of no interest to you, you have an agenda and the truth is an inconvenience to that.

You are a modern day holocaust denier so you shouldn't ask me for proof when you ignore it anyway. You already have the statements for the Norwegian medical agency and have chosen to ignore it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 09:12:09 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 04:48:21 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 16, 2021, 04:18:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 16, 2021, 03:55:31 PM
Up to 29 dead in Norway now from the vaccine.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-16/norway-vaccine-fatalities-among-people-75-and-older-rise-to-29

Can you post a link for your claim? The link you posted says 29 elderly people who were vaccinated have died.

Wow.

Complete and utter double standards.

"all deaths are thus linked to this vaccine," the Norwegian Medicines Agency said in a written response to Bloomberg on Saturday.

29 dead from the vaccine. They didn't have Covid though so they probably deserved to die in your eyes. As long as big pharma can make a few quid everything is alright in your eyes, you are amoral.

Embarrassing levels of denial on display from dublin7 here. Not the sharpest tool in the box.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 17, 2021, 10:04:49 AM
" Norway expressed increasing concern about the safety of the Pfizer Inc. vaccine on elderly people with serious underlying health conditions after raising an estimate of the number who died after receiving inoculations to 29"

"There are 13 deaths that have been assessed, and we are aware of another 16 deaths that are currently being assessed," the agency said. All the reported deaths related to "elderly people with serious basic disorders,"

"The Norwegian Medicines Agency has communicated, prior to the vaccination, that when vaccinating the oldest and sickest, it is expected that deaths will occur in a time-related context with vaccination. This does not mean that there is a causal link between vaccination and death. We have also, in connection with the reported deaths, conveyed that it is possible that common and known side effects of the vaccines may have been a contributing factor to a serious course or fatal outcome," the agency said

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 10:09:53 AM
"There are 13 deaths that have been assessed, and we are aware of another 16 deaths that are currently being assessed," the agency said. All the reported deaths related to "elderly people with serious basic disorders," it said. "Most people have experienced the expected side effects of the vaccine, such as nausea and vomiting, fever, local reactions at the injection site, and worsening of their underlying condition."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on January 17, 2021, 10:31:03 AM
https://www.facebook.com/794261867343317/posts/3021864527916362/

Well worth a watch. Dr. Paddy Malkin is head of infectious diseases in St. Vincent's I think.
I'd have a lot of time for him, he's married to my friends sister and that's how I first heard of him.
He says some interesting things about the demographic of those being admitted to hospital being a lot lower this time and also some opinions on the vaccines.

Real info from a real doctor with actual experience and facts to back it up.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 10:35:45 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 17, 2021, 10:31:03 AM
https://www.facebook.com/794261867343317/posts/3021864527916362/

Well worth a watch. Dr. Paddy Malkin is head of infectious diseases in St. Vincent's I think.
I'd have a lot of time for him, he's married to my friends sister and that's how I first heard of him.
He says some interesting things about the demographic of those being admitted to hospital being a lot lower this time and also some opinions on the vaccines.

Real info from a real doctor with actual experience and facts to back it up.

Does be talk about the transmission rates in hospital settings?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 17, 2021, 10:38:53 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 10:09:53 AM
"There are 13 deaths that have been assessed, and we are aware of another 16 deaths that are currently being assessed," the agency said. All the reported deaths related to "elderly people with serious basic disorders," it said. "Most people have experienced the expected side effects of the vaccine, such as nausea and vomiting, fever, local reactions at the injection site, and worsening of their underlying condition."

Sorry but can you put in bold where it says the vaccine was responsible for any deaths. I see elderly people with disorders is mentioned and those who have underlying medical conditions haven't reacted well (something similar has happened to people with allergies to other medications)

Do you have a contact like Seany's engineer friend in the Norwegian medical industry that proves your point and the above is just a cover up by big pharma, WHO etc?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 17, 2021, 10:42:15 AM
25% of hospital admissions now for Covid are under the age of 55. The demographics are changing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 17, 2021, 10:42:57 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 17, 2021, 10:31:03 AM
https://www.facebook.com/794261867343317/posts/3021864527916362/

Well worth a watch. Dr. Paddy Malkin is head of infectious diseases in St. Vincent's I think.
I'd have a lot of time for him, he's married to my friends sister and that's how I first heard of him.
He says some interesting things about the demographic of those being admitted to hospital being a lot lower this time and also some opinions on the vaccines.

Real info from a real doctor with actual experience and facts to back it up.

Yes, anything is better than listening to a nobody, with zero expertise. Refreshing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 17, 2021, 12:02:52 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 17, 2021, 10:38:53 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 10:09:53 AM
"There are 13 deaths that have been assessed, and we are aware of another 16 deaths that are currently being assessed," the agency said. All the reported deaths related to "elderly people with serious basic disorders," it said. "Most people have experienced the expected side effects of the vaccine, such as nausea and vomiting, fever, local reactions at the injection site, and worsening of their underlying condition."

Sorry but can you put in bold where it says the vaccine was responsible for any deaths. I see elderly people with disorders is mentioned and those who have underlying medical conditions haven't reacted well (something similar has happened to people with allergies to other medications)

Do you have a contact like Seany's engineer friend in the Norwegian medical industry that proves your point and the above is just a cover up by big pharma, WHO etc?
The deniers' narrative:

"People don't die from Covid, they die with Covid"

Also:

"People don't die with the vaccine, they die from the vaccine"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 17, 2021, 03:36:21 PM
Lenny the median age of death yesterday was 85. They arnt changing that much
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 03:39:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 17, 2021, 12:02:52 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 17, 2021, 10:38:53 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 10:09:53 AM
"There are 13 deaths that have been assessed, and we are aware of another 16 deaths that are currently being assessed," the agency said. All the reported deaths related to "elderly people with serious basic disorders," it said. "Most people have experienced the expected side effects of the vaccine, such as nausea and vomiting, fever, local reactions at the injection site, and worsening of their underlying condition."

Sorry but can you put in bold where it says the vaccine was responsible for any deaths. I see elderly people with disorders is mentioned and those who have underlying medical conditions haven't reacted well (something similar has happened to people with allergies to other medications)

Do you have a contact like Seany's engineer friend in the Norwegian medical industry that proves your point and the above is just a cover up by big pharma, WHO etc?
The deniers' narrative:

"People don't die from Covid, they die with Covid"

Also:

"People don't die with the vaccine, they die from the vaccine"

I think people die from old age. Not the virus or the vaccine, but both may contribute to elderly people and those with severe underlying health conditions dying early.

Your post there projects an awful lot. When the evidence points to the vaccine being the trigger of death, it's because they were elderly and unwell.

When elderly and unwell people die with Covid, it's not considered, all we are told is they died due to Covid.

That's the problem with people like you, you are bound by your contradictions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 03:40:31 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 17, 2021, 10:42:15 AM
25% of hospital admissions now for Covid are under the age of 55. The demographics are changing.

0.008% fatality rate in under 20s
0.006% fatality rate in under 40s

And then we have Covid spreading like wildfire in hospital settings.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 03:43:36 PM
This is a huge problem at the minute and a scandalous one.

https://www.hsj.co.uk/patient-safety/covid-infections-caught-in-hospital-up-by-half-in-a-week/7029320.article

Covid-19 infections likely to have been caught in hospital have increased by almost half in a week with several trusts seeing significant rises, HSJ can reveal.

Our analysis of NHS England data shows that 3,813 covid cases in hospital in the week to 10 January were likely to have been hospital acquired.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 17, 2021, 05:47:32 PM
Weekly update for ROI.

Good news, first time in 5 weeks to have a weekly decrease in confirmed cases and decent one at that.

Bad news the weekly reported deaths are sadly back to weekly numbers we got in April.

Cases 25212 (20558 less than last week)
Reported Deaths 268 (181 more than last week)

In hospital 1,928 (476 than a week ago)
In ICU: 195 ( 70 more than last Sunday)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 17, 2021, 05:58:25 PM
Big drop in cases but from  massively high rate.
Hospitals and their staffs in for a rough week or 10 days before the drop feeds in there.
At least another 4 to 6 weeks of level 5 with maybe schools and construction restarting 1st Feb.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on January 17, 2021, 07:59:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 17, 2021, 05:58:25 PM
Big drop in cases but from  massively high rate.
Hospitals and their staffs in for a rough week or 10 days before the drop feeds in there.
At least another 4 to 6 weeks of level 5 with maybe schools and construction restarting 1st Feb.

1st Feb is only 2 weeks away!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: In hiding on January 17, 2021, 08:45:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 03:39:08 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 17, 2021, 12:02:52 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 17, 2021, 10:38:53 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 17, 2021, 10:09:53 AM
"There are 13 deaths that have been assessed, and we are aware of another 16 deaths that are currently being assessed," the agency said. All the reported deaths related to "elderly people with serious basic disorders," it said. "Most people have experienced the expected side effects of the vaccine, such as nausea and vomiting, fever, local reactions at the injection site, and worsening of their underlying condition."

Sorry but can you put in bold where it says the vaccine was responsible for any deaths. I see elderly people with disorders is mentioned and those who have underlying medical conditions haven't reacted well (something similar has happened to people with allergies to other medications)

Do you have a contact like Seany's engineer friend in the Norwegian medical industry that proves your point and the above is just a cover up by big pharma, WHO etc?
The deniers' narrative:

"People don't die from Covid, they die with Covid"

Also:

"People don't die with the vaccine, they die from the vaccine"

I think people die from old age. Not the virus or the vaccine, but both may contribute to elderly people and those with severe underlying health conditions dying early.

Your post there projects an awful lot. When the evidence points to the vaccine being the trigger of death, it's because they were elderly and unwell.

When elderly and unwell people die with Covid, it's not considered, all we are told is they died due to Covid.

That's the problem with people like you, you are bound by your contradictions.
Very rarely do i agree with Il Bomber but I agree here
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 17, 2021, 08:50:05 PM
At what stage do ye executive start talking about easing restrictions?
3 weeks until they officially end
Can't see any being eased?
What is lifted first and when?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 17, 2021, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 17, 2021, 08:50:05 PM
At what stage do ye executive start talking about easing restrictions?
3 weeks until they officially end
Can't see any being eased?
What is lifted first and when?
When figures are like June 20?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 17, 2021, 08:59:04 PM
Why when figures are like June 20?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on January 17, 2021, 10:03:59 PM
Schools late Feb
Non essential retail late Mar
Restaurants mid Apr
Pubs May
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 17, 2021, 10:15:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 17, 2021, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 17, 2021, 08:50:05 PM
At what stage do ye executive start talking about easing restrictions?
3 weeks until they officially end
Can't see any being eased?
What is lifted first and when?
When figures are like June 20?

You've  asked when able to open up... do that when the figures are like June 20? Figures were low then, we opened up, the rest is history
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 17, 2021, 10:19:04 PM
Figures still very high. Tbh I don't think anyone can think about that until we are sure that a drop on the case numbers is going to be a) a sustained drop and b) a drop on the load on the nhs. Then you would imagine it has to be phased and reassessed constantly (not that we have done that before mind you).

The wife said she read bars wouldn't open until April minimum up north. I don't know how the half of them will remain in business.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on January 18, 2021, 11:26:43 AM
Am I the only one that think the media are making a big deal out of the 16 jabs that were given to family members of staff at the hospital in Dublin ?  Maybe they should be more accurate in terms of the number of jabs they have available but surely it was the right thing to do to use them rather than throw them out ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 18, 2021, 11:35:25 AM
There'll be no chat about opening anything up in the short term. Wait to you see the deaths this week, there'll be over 20 people per day and perhaps even more than 30 each day! Hospitals are like a war zone, exhausted staff, lack of staff, no capacity, low oxygen supplies, and the patients just keep coming... I hope I am wrong but this week is going to be a real disaster.

In the wee 6 I should say.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 18, 2021, 11:43:21 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 18, 2021, 11:35:25 AM
There'll be no chat about opening anything up in the short term. Wait to you see the deaths this week, there'll be over 20 people per day and perhaps even more than 30 each day! Hospitals are like a war zone, exhausted staff, lack of staff, no capacity, low oxygen supplies, and the patients just keep coming... I hope I am wrong but this week is going to be a real disaster.

In the wee 6 I should say.

In the whole 32. This will go on for another 3 weeks or a month, with so many cases it will take a long time to get them down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 18, 2021, 11:47:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 18, 2021, 11:35:25 AM
There'll be no chat about opening anything up in the short term. Wait to you see the deaths this week, there'll be over 20 people per day and perhaps even more than 30 each day! Hospitals are like a war zone, exhausted staff, lack of staff, no capacity, low oxygen supplies, and the patients just keep coming... I hope I am wrong but this week is going to be a real disaster.

In the wee 6 I should say.

Yeah this next two weeks aren't going to be good. Hopefully the daily case numbers continue to come down at least.

I would expect this lockdown to continue to March (in the whole country).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 11:55:11 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 17, 2021, 08:50:05 PM
At what stage do ye executive start talking about easing restrictions?
3 weeks until they officially end
Can't see any being eased?
What is lifted first and when?

We won't effectively know if the vaccines work for another couple of months.

But at this point we must be close to having all care home residents fully vaccinated? So it's just a matter of time in seeing if it is actually effective in these groupings.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 18, 2021, 11:55:53 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 18, 2021, 11:26:43 AM
Am I the only one that think the media are making a big deal out of the 16 jabs that were given to family members of staff at the hospital in Dublin ? 
No you're not.
It was use them or dump them.
Only point I'd make were there any staff members or patients they could have been given to in the timespan available?

But to be plastered all over the media seems a bit much.
Meanwhile the number of Covid patients in the 26 have gone over 2,000 with around 400 either in ICU or being ventilated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on January 18, 2021, 12:05:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 18, 2021, 11:55:53 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 18, 2021, 11:26:43 AM
Am I the only one that think the media are making a big deal out of the 16 jabs that were given to family members of staff at the hospital in Dublin ? 
No you're not.
It was use them or dump them.
Only point I'd make were there any staff members or patients they could have been given to in the timespan available?


Yeah, it's not that big of a deal imo.

The root of the problem is the lack of an electronic system for tracking who has received / needs to receive the jab
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on January 18, 2021, 12:21:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 18, 2021, 11:55:53 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 18, 2021, 11:26:43 AM
Am I the only one that think the media are making a big deal out of the 16 jabs that were given to family members of staff at the hospital in Dublin ? 
No you're not.
It was use them or dump them.
Only point I'd make were there any staff members or patients they could have been given to in the timespan available?

But to be plastered all over the media seems a bit much.
Meanwhile the number of Covid patients in the 26 have gone over 2,000 with around 400 either in ICU or being ventilated.

But is there not a list who should be vaccinated?

Surely it shouldn't be getting to the situation where, at least 1 million need its urgently, and yet people are giving it to their family members?

A bad system if that's the case.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 18, 2021, 12:32:26 PM
Quote from: marty34 on January 18, 2021, 12:21:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 18, 2021, 11:55:53 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 18, 2021, 11:26:43 AM
Am I the only one that think the media are making a big deal out of the 16 jabs that were given to family members of staff at the hospital in Dublin ? 
No you're not.
It was use them or dump them.
Only point I'd make were there any staff members or patients they could have been given to in the timespan available?

But to be plastered all over the media seems a bit much.
Meanwhile the number of Covid patients in the 26 have gone over 2,000 with around 400 either in ICU or being ventilated.

But is there not a list who should be vaccinated?

Surely it shouldn't be getting to the situation where, at least 1 million need its urgently, and yet people are giving it to their family members?

A bad system if that's the case.

You would imagine there is a list if categories have been rolled out?? Vaccine shouldn't go to waste but surely there will always be a next in line?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 12:34:54 PM
Interesting report (if not surprising) on the impact of Lockdowns on vulnerable kids.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0118/1190363-covid-children-vulnerable-impact/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 12:48:46 PM
The report is on the impact of the pandemic on vulnerable children.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 12:48:46 PM
The report is on the impact of the pandemic on vulnerable children.

Lockdowns.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 18, 2021, 01:28:48 PM
Hysteria at its best about the 16 vaccines
People in this country like to make a big deal about things
The next 4 weeks the hospitals will be overwhelmed
From mid January until mid February in a normal year is where the hospitals are most overwhelmed. Expect these next 4 weeks to be out worst
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 12:48:46 PM
The report is on the impact of the pandemic on vulnerable children.

Lockdowns.

Giraffe
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2021, 01:48:28 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 18, 2021, 12:32:26 PM
Quote from: marty34 on January 18, 2021, 12:21:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 18, 2021, 11:55:53 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 18, 2021, 11:26:43 AM
Am I the only one that think the media are making a big deal out of the 16 jabs that were given to family members of staff at the hospital in Dublin ? 
No you're not.
It was use them or dump them.
Only point I'd make were there any staff members or patients they could have been given to in the timespan available?

But to be plastered all over the media seems a bit much.
Meanwhile the number of Covid patients in the 26 have gone over 2,000 with around 400 either in ICU or being ventilated.

But is there not a list who should be vaccinated?

Surely it shouldn't be getting to the situation where, at least 1 million need its urgently, and yet people are giving it to their family members?

A bad system if that's the case.

You would imagine there is a list if categories have been rolled out?? Vaccine shouldn't go to waste but surely there will always be a next in line?

Believe it or not but some people are not taking the vaccine, some on the list are too unwell to get to a place for the jab. Thought this would be easy enough to work out..

Friends have got it recently after a batch was  nearly not used, they were available got it, rather it wasted
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 12:48:46 PM
The report is on the impact of the pandemic on vulnerable children.

Lockdowns.

Giraffe

Governments chose to instigate Lockdowns, they are the reason those children are suffering - not the virus.

It's another classic example of the mental gymnastics I have talked about.

Those vulnerable children have been impacted by lockdown mechanisms but they don't seem to matter, people aren't interested in those with lockdown problems - only Covid problems.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:53:58 PM
I wouldn't have an issue with people getting excess vaccines if the vaccine would go to waste in any case.

For me though, there seems to be no upside to taking a vaccine that has not been proven to either stop contraction or transmission of the virus and is not in anyway a viable to people under the age of 40 who are fit and healthy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 18, 2021, 01:58:59 PM
The upside of the vaccine is that anyone over the age of 70 that gets covid and has the vaccine will not die
A pretty big upside
What part don't you get?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 02:00:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 12:48:46 PM
The report is on the impact of the pandemic on vulnerable children.

Lockdowns.

Giraffe

Governments chose to instigate Lockdowns, they are the reason those children are suffering - not the virus.

It's another classic example of the mental gymnastics I have talked about.

Those vulnerable children have been impacted by lockdown mechanisms but they don't seem to matter, people aren't interested in those with lockdown problems - only Covid problems.
Been through this. Couldn't disagree more as previously stated. No interest in re-having the same argument. Happy to leave it there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 02:20:21 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 18, 2021, 01:58:59 PM
The upside of the vaccine is that anyone over the age of 70 that gets covid and has the vaccine will not die
A pretty big upside
What part don't you get?

A. I was referring to people under 40 getting the vaccine. What is the upside to people under 40 getting the vaccine?

B. People in Norway over 70 haven't fared out too well with the vaccine so far.

So have you anything to add to that? If people wish to get the vaccine, they should feel free to. If people don't, they should have their views and rights accepted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on January 18, 2021, 02:32:14 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 02:20:21 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 18, 2021, 01:58:59 PM
The upside of the vaccine is that anyone over the age of 70 that gets covid and has the vaccine will not die
A pretty big upside
What part don't you get?

A. I was referring to people under 40 getting the vaccine. What is the upside to people under 40 getting the vaccine?

B. People in Norway over 70 haven't fared out too well with the vaccine so far.

So have you anything to add to that? If people wish to get the vaccine, they should feel free to. If people don't, they should have their views and rights accepted.

You're correct in that it hasn't been proven that you cannot contract & transmit the virus after receiving the vaccine. So let's look at a hypothetical case of someone under 40 who catches the virus (and let's assume for the sake of your point that they have no symptoms and will have absolutely no long term effects from it):

The more people who fall into the first category, the less people who contract the virus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armamike on January 18, 2021, 02:46:55 PM
Maybe a bit off topic, but has China shown any contrition (if that's the right word) to the international community yet for the impact of this virus, and signalled that it's going to give something back whether that be contributions to science, humanitarian aid to less developed countries, non profit making on PPE equipment etc. etc.  Maybe they have and I've missed the discussions but I've never once heard anything on the mainstream news.   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on January 18, 2021, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 12:48:46 PM
The report is on the impact of the pandemic on vulnerable children.

Lockdowns.

Giraffe

Governments chose to instigate Lockdowns, they are the reason those children are suffering - not the virus.

It's another classic example of the mental gymnastics I have talked about.

Those vulnerable children have been impacted by lockdown mechanisms but they don't seem to matter, people aren't interested in those with lockdown problems - only Covid problems.

If we are to follow that logic through, it implies that Lockdowns would have happened without the virus.
Obviously not the case.
Lockdowns are imposed by governments to try to minimise the effects of the virus in terms of deaths and in terms of pressure on the health system.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 18, 2021, 02:51:25 PM
Quote from: Armamike on January 18, 2021, 02:46:55 PM
Maybe a bit off topic, but has China shown any contrition (if that's the right word) to the international community yet for the impact of this virus, and signalled that it's going to give something back whether that be contributions to science, humanitarian aid to less developed countries, non profit making on PPE equipment etc. etc.  Maybe they have and I've missed the discussions but I've never once heard anything on the mainstream news.

No and they have impeded the WHO at every turnaround in their search for answers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 02:52:21 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 18, 2021, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 12:48:46 PM
The report is on the impact of the pandemic on vulnerable children.

Lockdowns.

Giraffe

Governments chose to instigate Lockdowns, they are the reason those children are suffering - not the virus.

It's another classic example of the mental gymnastics I have talked about.

Those vulnerable children have been impacted by lockdown mechanisms but they don't seem to matter, people aren't interested in those with lockdown problems - only Covid problems.

If we are to follow that logic through, it implies that Lockdowns would have happened without the virus.
Obviously not the case.
Lockdowns are imposed by governments to try to minimise the effects of the virus in terms of deaths and in terms of pressure on the health system.

That's not logic.

Governments chose to lockdown. They had options. They chose to lockdown and vulnerable children were impacted in this but nobody cares about the victims of lockdown.

Most posters on here don't think they matter because Covid trumps anyone who is a non-Covid problem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 18, 2021, 03:06:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 02:52:21 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 18, 2021, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 12:48:46 PM
The report is on the impact of the pandemic on vulnerable children.

Lockdowns.

Giraffe

Governments chose to instigate Lockdowns, they are the reason those children are suffering - not the virus.

It's another classic example of the mental gymnastics I have talked about.

Those vulnerable children have been impacted by lockdown mechanisms but they don't seem to matter, people aren't interested in those with lockdown problems - only Covid problems.

If we are to follow that logic through, it implies that Lockdowns would have happened without the virus.
Obviously not the case.
Lockdowns are imposed by governments to try to minimise the effects of the virus in terms of deaths and in terms of pressure on the health system.

That's not logic.

Governments chose to lockdown. They had options. They chose to lockdown and vulnerable children were impacted in this but nobody cares about the victims of lockdown.

Most posters on here don't think they matter because Covid trumps anyone who is a non-Covid problem.

Good one  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on January 18, 2021, 03:08:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 18, 2021, 11:47:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 18, 2021, 11:35:25 AM
There'll be no chat about opening anything up in the short term. Wait to you see the deaths this week, there'll be over 20 people per day and perhaps even more than 30 each day! Hospitals are like a war zone, exhausted staff, lack of staff, no capacity, low oxygen supplies, and the patients just keep coming... I hope I am wrong but this week is going to be a real disaster.

In the wee 6 I should say.

Yeah this next two weeks aren't going to be good. Hopefully the daily case numbers continue to come down at least.

I would expect this lockdown to continue to March (in the whole country).

It could up to May if that's how they are talking.
https://www.irishpost.com/news/ireland-could-remain-in-full-lockdown-until-may-warns-nphet-201685
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:08:12 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 18, 2021, 03:06:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 02:52:21 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 18, 2021, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 12:48:46 PM
The report is on the impact of the pandemic on vulnerable children.

Lockdowns.

Giraffe

Governments chose to instigate Lockdowns, they are the reason those children are suffering - not the virus.

It's another classic example of the mental gymnastics I have talked about.

Those vulnerable children have been impacted by lockdown mechanisms but they don't seem to matter, people aren't interested in those with lockdown problems - only Covid problems.

If we are to follow that logic through, it implies that Lockdowns would have happened without the virus.
Obviously not the case.
Lockdowns are imposed by governments to try to minimise the effects of the virus in terms of deaths and in terms of pressure on the health system.

That's not logic.

Governments chose to lockdown. They had options. They chose to lockdown and vulnerable children were impacted in this but nobody cares about the victims of lockdown.

Most posters on here don't think they matter because Covid trumps anyone who is a non-Covid problem.

Good one  ;D

Aye, dead on, have a laugh at all those domestic abuse victims. Tell them about how funny you think it is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:10:19 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on January 18, 2021, 03:08:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 18, 2021, 11:47:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 18, 2021, 11:35:25 AM
There'll be no chat about opening anything up in the short term. Wait to you see the deaths this week, there'll be over 20 people per day and perhaps even more than 30 each day! Hospitals are like a war zone, exhausted staff, lack of staff, no capacity, low oxygen supplies, and the patients just keep coming... I hope I am wrong but this week is going to be a real disaster.

In the wee 6 I should say.

Yeah this next two weeks aren't going to be good. Hopefully the daily case numbers continue to come down at least.

I would expect this lockdown to continue to March (in the whole country).

It could up to May if that's how they are talking.
https://www.irishpost.com/news/ireland-could-remain-in-full-lockdown-until-may-warns-nphet-201685

If the case numbers haven't fallen by May then the vaccine is clearly a dud.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 18, 2021, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:08:12 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 18, 2021, 03:06:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 02:52:21 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 18, 2021, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 12:48:46 PM
The report is on the impact of the pandemic on vulnerable children.

Lockdowns.

Giraffe

Governments chose to instigate Lockdowns, they are the reason those children are suffering - not the virus.

It's another classic example of the mental gymnastics I have talked about.

Those vulnerable children have been impacted by lockdown mechanisms but they don't seem to matter, people aren't interested in those with lockdown problems - only Covid problems.

If we are to follow that logic through, it implies that Lockdowns would have happened without the virus.
Obviously not the case.
Lockdowns are imposed by governments to try to minimise the effects of the virus in terms of deaths and in terms of pressure on the health system.

That's not logic.

Governments chose to lockdown. They had options. They chose to lockdown and vulnerable children were impacted in this but nobody cares about the victims of lockdown.

Most posters on here don't think they matter because Covid trumps anyone who is a non-Covid problem.

Good one  ;D

Aye, dead on, have a laugh at all those domestic abuse victims. Tell them about how funny you think it is.

As you clearly state, they are victims of domestic abuse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:14:48 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 18, 2021, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:08:12 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 18, 2021, 03:06:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 02:52:21 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 18, 2021, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 12:48:46 PM
The report is on the impact of the pandemic on vulnerable children.

Lockdowns.

Giraffe

Governments chose to instigate Lockdowns, they are the reason those children are suffering - not the virus.

It's another classic example of the mental gymnastics I have talked about.

Those vulnerable children have been impacted by lockdown mechanisms but they don't seem to matter, people aren't interested in those with lockdown problems - only Covid problems.

If we are to follow that logic through, it implies that Lockdowns would have happened without the virus.
Obviously not the case.
Lockdowns are imposed by governments to try to minimise the effects of the virus in terms of deaths and in terms of pressure on the health system.

That's not logic.

Governments chose to lockdown. They had options. They chose to lockdown and vulnerable children were impacted in this but nobody cares about the victims of lockdown.

Most posters on here don't think they matter because Covid trumps anyone who is a non-Covid problem.

Good one  ;D

Aye, dead on, have a laugh at all those domestic abuse victims. Tell them about how funny you think it is.

As you clearly state, they are victims of domestic abuse.

Multiplied by government enforced lockdowns. Go check with the victims and see what they think of lockdowns rather than sniggering at them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 03:18:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 02:52:21 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 18, 2021, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 12:48:46 PM
The report is on the impact of the pandemic on vulnerable children.

Lockdowns.

Giraffe

Governments chose to instigate Lockdowns, they are the reason those children are suffering - not the virus.

It's another classic example of the mental gymnastics I have talked about.

Those vulnerable children have been impacted by lockdown mechanisms but they don't seem to matter, people aren't interested in those with lockdown problems - only Covid problems.

If we are to follow that logic through, it implies that Lockdowns would have happened without the virus.
Obviously not the case.
Lockdowns are imposed by governments to try to minimise the effects of the virus in terms of deaths and in terms of pressure on the health system.

That's not logic.

Governments chose to lockdown. They had options. They chose to lockdown and vulnerable children were impacted in this but nobody cares about the victims of lockdown.

Most posters on here don't think they matter because Covid trumps anyone who is a non-Covid problem.

Have many charities/ organisations that work with vulnerable people come out and said we should not be locking down? I know ones that have mentioned the need for increased funding etc. But has any released a statement to say that we shouldn't be locking down?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:20:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 03:18:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 02:52:21 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 18, 2021, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 12:48:46 PM
The report is on the impact of the pandemic on vulnerable children.

Lockdowns.

Giraffe

Governments chose to instigate Lockdowns, they are the reason those children are suffering - not the virus.

It's another classic example of the mental gymnastics I have talked about.

Those vulnerable children have been impacted by lockdown mechanisms but they don't seem to matter, people aren't interested in those with lockdown problems - only Covid problems.

If we are to follow that logic through, it implies that Lockdowns would have happened without the virus.
Obviously not the case.
Lockdowns are imposed by governments to try to minimise the effects of the virus in terms of deaths and in terms of pressure on the health system.

That's not logic.

Governments chose to lockdown. They had options. They chose to lockdown and vulnerable children were impacted in this but nobody cares about the victims of lockdown.

Most posters on here don't think they matter because Covid trumps anyone who is a non-Covid problem.

Have many charities/ organisations that work with vulnerable people come out and said we should not be locking down? I know ones that have mentioned the need for increased funding etc. But has any released a statement to say that we shouldn't be locking down?

Not sure, a lot of them rely on government funding though........
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 18, 2021, 03:20:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:14:48 PM
Multiplied by government enforced lockdowns. Go check with the victims and see what they think of lockdowns rather than sniggering at them.

So they are victims of domestic violence you admit?

Domestic violence is very serious and nothing in my posts have indicated that I am belittling victims of domestic violence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 18, 2021, 03:21:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:20:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 03:18:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 02:52:21 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 18, 2021, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 12:48:46 PM
The report is on the impact of the pandemic on vulnerable children.

Lockdowns.

Giraffe

Governments chose to instigate Lockdowns, they are the reason those children are suffering - not the virus.

It's another classic example of the mental gymnastics I have talked about.

Those vulnerable children have been impacted by lockdown mechanisms but they don't seem to matter, people aren't interested in those with lockdown problems - only Covid problems.

If we are to follow that logic through, it implies that Lockdowns would have happened without the virus.
Obviously not the case.
Lockdowns are imposed by governments to try to minimise the effects of the virus in terms of deaths and in terms of pressure on the health system.

That's not logic.

Governments chose to lockdown. They had options. They chose to lockdown and vulnerable children were impacted in this but nobody cares about the victims of lockdown.

Most posters on here don't think they matter because Covid trumps anyone who is a non-Covid problem.

Have many charities/ organisations that work with vulnerable people come out and said we should not be locking down? I know ones that have mentioned the need for increased funding etc. But has any released a statement to say that we shouldn't be locking down?

Not sure, a lot of them rely on government funding though........

So it;'s a conspiracy?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:22:51 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 18, 2021, 03:20:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:14:48 PM
Multiplied by government enforced lockdowns. Go check with the victims and see what they think of lockdowns rather than sniggering at them.

So they are victims of domestic violence you admit?

Domestic violence is very serious and nothing in my posts have indicated that I am belittling victims of domestic violence.

They are victims of the lockdown, ask them if you want. There are plenty of them who have come forward and said what lockdowns meant for them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:23:45 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 18, 2021, 03:21:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:20:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 03:18:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 02:52:21 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 18, 2021, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 12:48:46 PM
The report is on the impact of the pandemic on vulnerable children.

Lockdowns.

Giraffe

Governments chose to instigate Lockdowns, they are the reason those children are suffering - not the virus.

It's another classic example of the mental gymnastics I have talked about.

Those vulnerable children have been impacted by lockdown mechanisms but they don't seem to matter, people aren't interested in those with lockdown problems - only Covid problems.

If we are to follow that logic through, it implies that Lockdowns would have happened without the virus.
Obviously not the case.
Lockdowns are imposed by governments to try to minimise the effects of the virus in terms of deaths and in terms of pressure on the health system.

That's not logic.

Governments chose to lockdown. They had options. They chose to lockdown and vulnerable children were impacted in this but nobody cares about the victims of lockdown.

Most posters on here don't think they matter because Covid trumps anyone who is a non-Covid problem.

Have many charities/ organisations that work with vulnerable people come out and said we should not be locking down? I know ones that have mentioned the need for increased funding etc. But has any released a statement to say that we shouldn't be locking down?

Not sure, a lot of them rely on government funding though........

So it;'s a conspiracy?

I would say they have their hands tied and are compromised. Publicly speaking out against gov policy might have serious repercussions for their funding.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on January 18, 2021, 03:27:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:10:19 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on January 18, 2021, 03:08:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 18, 2021, 11:47:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 18, 2021, 11:35:25 AM
There'll be no chat about opening anything up in the short term. Wait to you see the deaths this week, there'll be over 20 people per day and perhaps even more than 30 each day! Hospitals are like a war zone, exhausted staff, lack of staff, no capacity, low oxygen supplies, and the patients just keep coming... I hope I am wrong but this week is going to be a real disaster.

In the wee 6 I should say.

Yeah this next two weeks aren't going to be good. Hopefully the daily case numbers continue to come down at least.

I would expect this lockdown to continue to March (in the whole country).

It could up to May if that's how they are talking.
https://www.irishpost.com/news/ireland-could-remain-in-full-lockdown-until-may-warns-nphet-201685

If the case numbers haven't fallen by May then the vaccine is clearly a dud.

They plan to have 700k vaccinated by end of March.  That's all going well. still leaves a lot to be vaccinated .

Depending on what vaccine. The moderna just needs one dose.The other vaccones have up to a 3 week gap in between the second jab. And another 3 or 4 weeks until it begins to work
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 18, 2021, 03:28:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:23:45 PM
I would say they have their hands tied and are compromised. Publicly speaking out against gov policy might have serious repercussions for their funding.

Quite a leap, considering there are plenty of examples of charities and others speaking out on government policy all the time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 18, 2021, 03:31:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:22:51 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 18, 2021, 03:20:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:14:48 PM
Multiplied by government enforced lockdowns. Go check with the victims and see what they think of lockdowns rather than sniggering at them.

So they are victims of domestic violence you admit?

Domestic violence is very serious and nothing in my posts have indicated that I am belittling victims of domestic violence.

They are victims of the lockdown, ask them if you want. There are plenty of them who have come forward and said what lockdowns meant for them.

They are victims of domestic abuse and the abusers should be held accountable.

By saying they are victims of the lockdown, it could be argued you are saying the abuser is not 100% responsible for their own actions and that is some sort of twisted way, the abuser is also a victim (due to government policy).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:34:12 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 18, 2021, 03:31:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:22:51 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 18, 2021, 03:20:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:14:48 PM
Multiplied by government enforced lockdowns. Go check with the victims and see what they think of lockdowns rather than sniggering at them.

So they are victims of domestic violence you admit?

Domestic violence is very serious and nothing in my posts have indicated that I am belittling victims of domestic violence.

They are victims of the lockdown, ask them if you want. There are plenty of them who have come forward and said what lockdowns meant for them.

They are victims of domestic abuse and the abusers should be held accountable.

By saying they are victims of the lockdown, it could be argued you are saying the abuser is not 100% responsible for their own actions and that is some sort of twisted way, the abuser is also a victim (due to government policy).

So no correlation in 50% rise in incidents since lockdowns came in. As I said, maybe you should listen to the views of the victims themselves rather than speaking on their behalf with something that contradicts their position.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 03:35:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:20:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 03:18:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 02:52:21 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 18, 2021, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 12:48:46 PM
The report is on the impact of the pandemic on vulnerable children.

Lockdowns.

Giraffe

Governments chose to instigate Lockdowns, they are the reason those children are suffering - not the virus.

It's another classic example of the mental gymnastics I have talked about.

Those vulnerable children have been impacted by lockdown mechanisms but they don't seem to matter, people aren't interested in those with lockdown problems - only Covid problems.

If we are to follow that logic through, it implies that Lockdowns would have happened without the virus.
Obviously not the case.
Lockdowns are imposed by governments to try to minimise the effects of the virus in terms of deaths and in terms of pressure on the health system.

That's not logic.

Governments chose to lockdown. They had options. They chose to lockdown and vulnerable children were impacted in this but nobody cares about the victims of lockdown.

Most posters on here don't think they matter because Covid trumps anyone who is a non-Covid problem.

Have many charities/ organisations that work with vulnerable people come out and said we should not be locking down? I know ones that have mentioned the need for increased funding etc. But has any released a statement to say that we shouldn't be locking down?

Not sure, a lot of them rely on government funding though........
So none of the charities representing these groups have spoken up to say that lockdowns need to stop? I'd take that as an endorsement that lockdowns are required unfortunately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:38:11 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on January 18, 2021, 03:27:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:10:19 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on January 18, 2021, 03:08:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 18, 2021, 11:47:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 18, 2021, 11:35:25 AM
There'll be no chat about opening anything up in the short term. Wait to you see the deaths this week, there'll be over 20 people per day and perhaps even more than 30 each day! Hospitals are like a war zone, exhausted staff, lack of staff, no capacity, low oxygen supplies, and the patients just keep coming... I hope I am wrong but this week is going to be a real disaster.

In the wee 6 I should say.

Yeah this next two weeks aren't going to be good. Hopefully the daily case numbers continue to come down at least.

I would expect this lockdown to continue to March (in the whole country).

It could up to May if that's how they are talking.
https://www.irishpost.com/news/ireland-could-remain-in-full-lockdown-until-may-warns-nphet-201685

If the case numbers haven't fallen by May then the vaccine is clearly a dud.

They plan to have 700k vaccinated by end of March.  That's all going well. still leaves a lot to be vaccinated .

Depending on what vaccine. The moderna just needs one dose.The other vaccones have up to a 3 week gap in between the second jab. And another 3 or 4 weeks until it begins to work

We have data on this.

We do know Covid is not a threat to around half the population. Look at the stats up north.

3 deaths in the u40 category. Will have to go back and double check but I think we have around 40-50k positive tests in that age group. Statistically if you are under 40 and in good health, Covid is no more of a threat than seasonal flu.

If you have the at risk categories vaccinated - in the O6, 95% of deaths have been people over the age of 60 - and the vaccine isn't a dud then there's no reason for society to remain shut down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:40:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 03:35:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:20:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 03:18:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 02:52:21 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 18, 2021, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 12:48:46 PM
The report is on the impact of the pandemic on vulnerable children.

Lockdowns.

Giraffe

Governments chose to instigate Lockdowns, they are the reason those children are suffering - not the virus.

It's another classic example of the mental gymnastics I have talked about.

Those vulnerable children have been impacted by lockdown mechanisms but they don't seem to matter, people aren't interested in those with lockdown problems - only Covid problems.

If we are to follow that logic through, it implies that Lockdowns would have happened without the virus.
Obviously not the case.
Lockdowns are imposed by governments to try to minimise the effects of the virus in terms of deaths and in terms of pressure on the health system.

That's not logic.

Governments chose to lockdown. They had options. They chose to lockdown and vulnerable children were impacted in this but nobody cares about the victims of lockdown.

Most posters on here don't think they matter because Covid trumps anyone who is a non-Covid problem.

Have many charities/ organisations that work with vulnerable people come out and said we should not be locking down? I know ones that have mentioned the need for increased funding etc. But has any released a statement to say that we shouldn't be locking down?

Not sure, a lot of them rely on government funding though........
So none of the charities representing these groups have spoken up to say that lockdowns need to stop? I'd take that as an endorsement that lockdowns are required unfortunately.

I don't know if they have or have not. Sheeple seem to just fall in line with the narrative but what they have said lockdowns have been very bad for these groupings. Maybe they are afraid of the some of the dogmatic, moralising backlash they would receive if they did speak out against lockdowns.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 18, 2021, 03:42:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:34:12 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 18, 2021, 03:31:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:22:51 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 18, 2021, 03:20:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:14:48 PM
Multiplied by government enforced lockdowns. Go check with the victims and see what they think of lockdowns rather than sniggering at them.

So they are victims of domestic violence you admit?

Domestic violence is very serious and nothing in my posts have indicated that I am belittling victims of domestic violence.

They are victims of the lockdown, ask them if you want. There are plenty of them who have come forward and said what lockdowns meant for them.

They are victims of domestic abuse and the abusers should be held accountable.

By saying they are victims of the lockdown, it could be argued you are saying the abuser is not 100% responsible for their own actions and that is some sort of twisted way, the abuser is also a victim (due to government policy).

So no correlation in 50% rise in incidents since lockdowns came in. As I said, maybe you should listen to the views of the victims themselves rather than speaking on their behalf with something that contradicts their position.

Isn't that what you are doing? Not only that you are taking advantage their individual situations (and other vulnerable groups) to promote false information and try to wind up people on the internet. Ultimately you could argue you are a bit of an abuser as well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on January 18, 2021, 03:43:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:38:11 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on January 18, 2021, 03:27:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:10:19 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on January 18, 2021, 03:08:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 18, 2021, 11:47:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 18, 2021, 11:35:25 AM
There'll be no chat about opening anything up in the short term. Wait to you see the deaths this week, there'll be over 20 people per day and perhaps even more than 30 each day! Hospitals are like a war zone, exhausted staff, lack of staff, no capacity, low oxygen supplies, and the patients just keep coming... I hope I am wrong but this week is going to be a real disaster.

In the wee 6 I should say.

Yeah this next two weeks aren’t going to be good. Hopefully the daily case numbers continue to come down at least.

I would expect this lockdown to continue to March (in the whole country).

It could up to May if that's how they are talking.
https://www.irishpost.com/news/ireland-could-remain-in-full-lockdown-until-may-warns-nphet-201685

If the case numbers haven't fallen by May then the vaccine is clearly a dud.

They plan to have 700k vaccinated by end of March.  That's all going well. still leaves a lot to be vaccinated .

Depending on what vaccine. The moderna just needs one dose.The other vaccones have up to a 3 week gap in between the second jab. And another 3 or 4 weeks until it begins to work

We have data on this.

We do know Covid is not a threat to around half the population. Look at the stats up north.

3 deaths in the u40 category. Will have to go back and double check but I think we have around 40-50k positive tests in that age group. Statistically if you are under 40 and in good health, Covid is no more of a threat than seasonal flu.

If you have the at risk categories vaccinated - in the O6, 95% of deaths have been people over the age of 60 - and the vaccine isn't a dud then there's no reason for society to remain shut down.

Would tend to agree with this which is a wee bit worrying.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:46:54 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 18, 2021, 03:43:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:38:11 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on January 18, 2021, 03:27:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:10:19 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on January 18, 2021, 03:08:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 18, 2021, 11:47:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 18, 2021, 11:35:25 AM
There'll be no chat about opening anything up in the short term. Wait to you see the deaths this week, there'll be over 20 people per day and perhaps even more than 30 each day! Hospitals are like a war zone, exhausted staff, lack of staff, no capacity, low oxygen supplies, and the patients just keep coming... I hope I am wrong but this week is going to be a real disaster.

In the wee 6 I should say.

Yeah this next two weeks aren't going to be good. Hopefully the daily case numbers continue to come down at least.

I would expect this lockdown to continue to March (in the whole country).

It could up to May if that's how they are talking.
https://www.irishpost.com/news/ireland-could-remain-in-full-lockdown-until-may-warns-nphet-201685

If the case numbers haven't fallen by May then the vaccine is clearly a dud.

They plan to have 700k vaccinated by end of March.  That's all going well. still leaves a lot to be vaccinated .

Depending on what vaccine. The moderna just needs one dose.The other vaccones have up to a 3 week gap in between the second jab. And another 3 or 4 weeks until it begins to work

We have data on this.

We do know Covid is not a threat to around half the population. Look at the stats up north.

3 deaths in the u40 category. Will have to go back and double check but I think we have around 40-50k positive tests in that age group. Statistically if you are under 40 and in good health, Covid is no more of a threat than seasonal flu.

If you have the at risk categories vaccinated - in the O6, 95% of deaths have been people over the age of 60 - and the vaccine isn't a dud then there's no reason for society to remain shut down.

Would tend to agree with this which is a wee bit worrying.

Just keep an open mind and question the data, make your own conclusions. Beware of the backlash of the dogmatic though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 03:48:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:40:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 03:35:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:20:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 03:18:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 02:52:21 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 18, 2021, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 18, 2021, 12:48:46 PM
The report is on the impact of the pandemic on vulnerable children.

Lockdowns.

Giraffe

Governments chose to instigate Lockdowns, they are the reason those children are suffering - not the virus.

It's another classic example of the mental gymnastics I have talked about.

Those vulnerable children have been impacted by lockdown mechanisms but they don't seem to matter, people aren't interested in those with lockdown problems - only Covid problems.

If we are to follow that logic through, it implies that Lockdowns would have happened without the virus.
Obviously not the case.
Lockdowns are imposed by governments to try to minimise the effects of the virus in terms of deaths and in terms of pressure on the health system.

That's not logic.

Governments chose to lockdown. They had options. They chose to lockdown and vulnerable children were impacted in this but nobody cares about the victims of lockdown.

Most posters on here don't think they matter because Covid trumps anyone who is a non-Covid problem.

Have many charities/ organisations that work with vulnerable people come out and said we should not be locking down? I know ones that have mentioned the need for increased funding etc. But has any released a statement to say that we shouldn't be locking down?

Not sure, a lot of them rely on government funding though........
So none of the charities representing these groups have spoken up to say that lockdowns need to stop? I'd take that as an endorsement that lockdowns are required unfortunately.

I don't know if they have or have not. Sheeple seem to just fall in line with the narrative but what they have said lockdowns have been very bad for these groupings. Maybe they are afraid of the some of the dogmatic, moralising backlash they would receive if they did speak out against lockdowns.
Or maybe they disagree with you as well. I think I know which is more likely in my view.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 18, 2021, 03:56:00 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:40:02 PM
Sheeple
He said it  ;D

(https://www.thetricolour.com/pictures/gemma-odoherty-banned-from-google-youtube-06-july-2019.jpg-small)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 18, 2021, 04:02:03 PM
I'm waiting for "you can't handle the truth" too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 18, 2021, 04:18:54 PM
The percentage of 80+ admitted to hospital in the north has dropped about 8% on a rolling basis.
Good sign
Early indication that the vaccine is working?
Positive or just luck
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 18, 2021, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:38:11 PM
We do know Covid is not a threat to around half the population. Look at the stats up north.

It is a threat.
Directly, a large number of people have lasting after effects from Covid, an order of magnitude more than is the case with any recent variant of flu.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01177-6

But of course indirectly it is a threat also, as hospitals are full and if someone has a road accident or the like then their treatment may be compromised, or they may get Covid in hospital when they are vulnerable.

Half the people in ICU with Covid are under 65 and vaccinating all the over 65s will not stop this pressure on the health service. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 18, 2021, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:38:11 PM
We do know Covid is not a threat to around half the population. Look at the stats up north.

It is a threat.
Directly, a large number of people have lasting after effects from Covid, an order of magnitude more than is the case with any recent variant of flu.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01177-6

But of course indirectly it is a threat also, as hospitals are full and if someone has a road accident or the like then their treatment may be compromised, or they may get Covid in hospital when they are vulnerable.

Half the people in ICU with Covid are under 65 and vaccinating all the over 65s will not stop this pressure on the health service.

Define large number? That's a very vague and ambiguous term?

Covid being spread in hospital is a concern admittedly but that's a health system failing.

The fatality rate of Covid for u40s is about 1 in 14,000 positive cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on January 18, 2021, 04:43:40 PM
The figures on the COVID dashboard showing the ICU bed occupancy from COVID are frightening and the graph is going the wrong way.
https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on January 18, 2021, 04:49:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 18, 2021, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:38:11 PM
We do know Covid is not a threat to around half the population. Look at the stats up north.

It is a threat.
Directly, a large number of people have lasting after effects from Covid, an order of magnitude more than is the case with any recent variant of flu.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01177-6

But of course indirectly it is a threat also, as hospitals are full and if someone has a road accident or the like then their treatment may be compromised, or they may get Covid in hospital when they are vulnerable.

Half the people in ICU with Covid are under 65 and vaccinating all the over 65s will not stop this pressure on the health service.

Define large number? That's a very vague and ambiguous term?

Covid being spread in hospital is a concern admittedly but that's a health system failing.

The fatality rate of Covid for u40s is about 1 in 14,000 positive cases.
From the Lancet

In a survey by the UK Government's Office for National Statistics in November, 2020, around one in five people who tested positive for COVID-19 had symptoms that lasted for 5 weeks or longer, and one in ten people had symptoms that lasted for 12 weeks or longer.


Common long COVID symptoms include:

extreme tiredness (fatigue)
shortness of breath
chest pain or tightness
problems with memory and concentration ("brain fog")
difficulty sleeping (insomnia)
heart palpitations
dizziness
pins and needles
joint pain
depression and anxiety
tinnitus, earaches
feeling sick, diarrhoea, stomach aches, loss of appetite
a high temperature, cough, headaches, sore throat, changes to sense of smell or taste
rashes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 18, 2021, 05:00:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 18, 2021, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:38:11 PM
We do know Covid is not a threat to around half the population. Look at the stats up north.

It is a threat.
Directly, a large number of people have lasting after effects from Covid, an order of magnitude more than is the case with any recent variant of flu.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01177-6

But of course indirectly it is a threat also, as hospitals are full and if someone has a road accident or the like then their treatment may be compromised, or they may get Covid in hospital when they are vulnerable.

Half the people in ICU with Covid are under 65 and vaccinating all the over 65s will not stop this pressure on the health service.

Define large number? That's a very vague and ambiguous term?

Covid being spread in hospital is a concern admittedly but that's a health system failing.

The fatality rate of Covid for u40s is about 1 in 14,000 positive cases.

You could have read the article I linked which notes, among other things, "According to a preprint published in October that has not yet undergone peer review, 24% of 233 patients still had symptoms at 90 days after infection".

If on this island there are 4000 people infected each day, as has been the case recently, then that is 1000 people with long term symptoms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 05:07:07 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 18, 2021, 04:49:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 18, 2021, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:38:11 PM
We do know Covid is not a threat to around half the population. Look at the stats up north.

It is a threat.
Directly, a large number of people have lasting after effects from Covid, an order of magnitude more than is the case with any recent variant of flu.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01177-6

But of course indirectly it is a threat also, as hospitals are full and if someone has a road accident or the like then their treatment may be compromised, or they may get Covid in hospital when they are vulnerable.

Half the people in ICU with Covid are under 65 and vaccinating all the over 65s will not stop this pressure on the health service.

Define large number? That's a very vague and ambiguous term?

Covid being spread in hospital is a concern admittedly but that's a health system failing.

The fatality rate of Covid for u40s is about 1 in 14,000 positive cases.
From the Lancet

In a survey by the UK Government's Office for National Statistics in November, 2020, around one in five people who tested positive for COVID-19 had symptoms that lasted for 5 weeks or longer, and one in ten people had symptoms that lasted for 12 weeks or longer.


Common long COVID symptoms include:

extreme tiredness (fatigue)
shortness of breath
chest pain or tightness
problems with memory and concentration ("brain fog")
difficulty sleeping (insomnia)
heart palpitations
dizziness
pins and needles
joint pain
depression and anxiety
tinnitus, earaches
feeling sick, diarrhoea, stomach aches, loss of appetite
a high temperature, cough, headaches, sore throat, changes to sense of smell or taste
rashes

How big was the survey sample?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 05:08:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 18, 2021, 05:00:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 18, 2021, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:38:11 PM
We do know Covid is not a threat to around half the population. Look at the stats up north.

It is a threat.
Directly, a large number of people have lasting after effects from Covid, an order of magnitude more than is the case with any recent variant of flu.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01177-6

But of course indirectly it is a threat also, as hospitals are full and if someone has a road accident or the like then their treatment may be compromised, or they may get Covid in hospital when they are vulnerable.

Half the people in ICU with Covid are under 65 and vaccinating all the over 65s will not stop this pressure on the health service.

Define large number? That's a very vague and ambiguous term?

Covid being spread in hospital is a concern admittedly but that's a health system failing.

The fatality rate of Covid for u40s is about 1 in 14,000 positive cases.

You could have read the article I linked which notes, among other things, "According to a preprint published in October that has not yet undergone peer review, 24% of 233 patients still had symptoms at 90 days after infection".

If on this island there are 4000 people infected each day, as has been the case recently, then that is 1000 people with long term symptoms.

56 people in a sample of 233 people. Wow, definitive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 18, 2021, 05:37:54 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 18, 2021, 04:43:40 PM
The figures on the COVID dashboard showing the ICU bed occupancy from COVID are frightening and the graph is going the wrong way.
https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9

The 5 day average is still trending upwards, but there does seem to be some hope in the single day figures, which were lower today.

Also, when they talk about percentage occupancy - I assume this is a percentage of current ICU capacity, and not historic capacity?

The CEO of the Northern Trust was on with Carruthers yesterday morning and was saying that they had almost doubled their ICU bed numbers in anticipation of this rise.

If that is the case, they are running at 150-200% of 'normal' ICU capacity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 18, 2021, 05:40:33 PM
I don't fully understand the occupancy but it can be at over 100 when there are ICU beds available so it must take into consideration more than ICU. I would guess a &e has to be a big factor there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 18, 2021, 05:43:38 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 18, 2021, 05:40:33 PM
I don't fully understand the occupancy but it can be at over 100 when there are ICU beds available so it must take into consideration more than ICU. I would guess a &e has to be a big factor there.

I had always assumed that over 100% meant that some unfortunate person was deemed clinically to need an ICU bed but couldn't get it?

Again, happy to be corrected on this as I'm not sure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 18, 2021, 05:48:16 PM
Tbh I am not that sure either but I do follow those stats and regularly there are free icu beds according to it when at over 100% capacity so my assumption was that it was other areas too.

There have always been some free icu beds when I have looked (which I would tend to do most days) though sometimes not many. How many ICU beds there actually are fluctuate up and down a lot for whatever reason.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2021, 05:57:56 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 18, 2021, 05:48:16 PM
Tbh I am not that sure either but I do follow those stats and regularly there are free icu beds according to it when at over 100% capacity so my assumption was that it was other areas too.

There have always been some free icu beds when I have looked (which I would tend to do most days) though sometimes not many. How many ICU beds there actually are fluctuate up and down a lot for whatever reason.

I'm sure there is a poster that can give you that information as it always deals with facts/stats
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 18, 2021, 06:12:21 PM
Median age of death in the south today was 85
We have problems in care homes
Criminal
Sort it out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 18, 2021, 06:30:29 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 18, 2021, 05:37:54 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 18, 2021, 04:43:40 PM
The figures on the COVID dashboard showing the ICU bed occupancy from COVID are frightening and the graph is going the wrong way.
https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9

The 5 day average is still trending upwards, but there does seem to be some hope in the single day figures, which were lower today.

Also, when they talk about percentage occupancy - I assume this is a percentage of current ICU capacity, and not historic capacity?

The CEO of the Northern Trust was on with Carruthers yesterday morning and was saying that they had almost doubled their ICU bed numbers in anticipation of this rise.

If that is the case, they are running at 150-200% of 'normal' ICU capacity.

That's exactly it Frank. Take Altnagelvin as an example. ICU wise, 10 beds. In April they doubled to 20 beds (surge capacity beds). For weeks all hospitals, with the exception of Causeway have been in 'surge' mode ie over normal capacity.

What I've learned re anti-vaxers, anti-lockdown brigade is they will never change their minds. Its a waste of time even trying. A bunch of binlids the lot of them

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on January 18, 2021, 07:05:55 PM
Can someone explain why the 14 day incidence rate is higher this week than last week when there are far less cases this week ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 18, 2021, 07:28:55 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 18, 2021, 07:05:55 PM
Can someone explain why the 14 day incidence rate is higher this week than last week when there are far less cases this week ?

Is it because it's a 14 day incidence rate not a 7? Not sure
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on January 18, 2021, 07:40:19 PM
Surely the 14 rate is getting less as the cases become less as the days go on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 18, 2021, 08:08:06 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 18, 2021, 07:40:19 PM
Surely the 14 rate is getting less as the cases become less as the days go on.

Because case numbers rose more quickly before the peak than they are falling after it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on January 18, 2021, 08:16:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 05:07:07 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 18, 2021, 04:49:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 18, 2021, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:38:11 PM
We do know Covid is not a threat to around half the population. Look at the stats up north.

It is a threat.
Directly, a large number of people have lasting after effects from Covid, an order of magnitude more than is the case with any recent variant of flu.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01177-6

But of course indirectly it is a threat also, as hospitals are full and if someone has a road accident or the like then their treatment may be compromised, or they may get Covid in hospital when they are vulnerable.

Half the people in ICU with Covid are under 65 and vaccinating all the over 65s will not stop this pressure on the health service.

Define large number? That's a very vague and ambiguous term?

Covid being spread in hospital is a concern admittedly but that's a health system failing.

The fatality rate of Covid for u40s is about 1 in 14,000 positive cases.
From the Lancet

In a survey by the UK Government's Office for National Statistics in November, 2020, around one in five people who tested positive for COVID-19 had symptoms that lasted for 5 weeks or longer, and one in ten people had symptoms that lasted for 12 weeks or longer.


Common long COVID symptoms include:

extreme tiredness (fatigue)
shortness of breath
chest pain or tightness
problems with memory and concentration ("brain fog")
difficulty sleeping (insomnia)
heart palpitations
dizziness
pins and needles
joint pain
depression and anxiety
tinnitus, earaches
feeling sick, diarrhoea, stomach aches, loss of appetite
a high temperature, cough, headaches, sore throat, changes to sense of smell or taste
rashes

How big was the survey sample?
8193 people
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on January 18, 2021, 08:18:30 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2021, 06:30:29 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 18, 2021, 05:37:54 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 18, 2021, 04:43:40 PM
The figures on the COVID dashboard showing the ICU bed occupancy from COVID are frightening and the graph is going the wrong way.
https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9

The 5 day average is still trending upwards, but there does seem to be some hope in the single day figures, which were lower today.

Also, when they talk about percentage occupancy - I assume this is a percentage of current ICU capacity, and not historic capacity?

The CEO of the Northern Trust was on with Carruthers yesterday morning and was saying that they had almost doubled their ICU bed numbers in anticipation of this rise.

If that is the case, they are running at 150-200% of 'normal' ICU capacity.

That's exactly it Frank. Take Altnagelvin as an example. ICU wise, 10 beds. In April they doubled to 20 beds (surge capacity beds). For weeks all hospitals, with the exception of Causeway have been in 'surge' mode ie over normal capacity.

What I've learned re anti-vaxers, anti-lockdown brigade is they will never change their minds. Its a waste of time even trying. A bunch of binlids the lot of them

The dashboard notes that the capacity on a given day includes any surge capacity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: macdanger2 on January 18, 2021, 08:18:47 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 18, 2021, 07:05:55 PM
Can someone explain why the 14 day incidence rate is higher this week than last week when there are far less cases this week ?

The 14 day incidence rate will only start to fall when the number of cases today is lower than the number of cases 15 days ago - the number from 15 days ago is the one that's being dropped from the calculation. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on January 18, 2021, 08:25:18 PM
Right I get you now.  So the cases early January were not over 2,000 ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 18, 2021, 08:32:05 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 18, 2021, 08:16:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 05:07:07 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 18, 2021, 04:49:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 04:32:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 18, 2021, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 18, 2021, 03:38:11 PM
We do know Covid is not a threat to around half the population. Look at the stats up north.

It is a threat.
Directly, a large number of people have lasting after effects from Covid, an order of magnitude more than is the case with any recent variant of flu.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01177-6

But of course indirectly it is a threat also, as hospitals are full and if someone has a road accident or the like then their treatment may be compromised, or they may get Covid in hospital when they are vulnerable.

Half the people in ICU with Covid are under 65 and vaccinating all the over 65s will not stop this pressure on the health service.

Define large number? That's a very vague and ambiguous term?

Covid being spread in hospital is a concern admittedly but that's a health system failing.

The fatality rate of Covid for u40s is about 1 in 14,000 positive cases.
From the Lancet

In a survey by the UK Government's Office for National Statistics in November, 2020, around one in five people who tested positive for COVID-19 had symptoms that lasted for 5 weeks or longer, and one in ten people had symptoms that lasted for 12 weeks or longer.


Common long COVID symptoms include:

extreme tiredness (fatigue)
shortness of breath
chest pain or tightness
problems with memory and concentration ("brain fog")
difficulty sleeping (insomnia)
heart palpitations
dizziness
pins and needles
joint pain
depression and anxiety
tinnitus, earaches
feeling sick, diarrhoea, stomach aches, loss of appetite
a high temperature, cough, headaches, sore throat, changes to sense of smell or taste
rashes

How big was the survey sample?
8193 people

14 weeks and I still have few of those, palpitations and constant ear aches plus terrible brain fog, studying atm, finding it difficult to read and concentrate
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 18, 2021, 09:18:30 PM
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/no-resolution-with-irish-government-over-sharing-passenger-data-oneill-39980913.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 18, 2021, 09:37:14 PM
Sean Boylan on RTE at 10:35 on recovering from Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 18, 2021, 09:38:42 PM
No jelly for Balymena Sunday lunches

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/jelly-and-gravy-supplies-threatened-when-grace-period-ends-stormont-warns-39981622.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 18, 2021, 11:29:28 PM
Further lockdowns even with vaccination
3 months ago all we heard from the health experts were science and vaccines will win
Now vaccines are here it's now changed
You couldn't make this up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 19, 2021, 07:27:02 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 18, 2021, 09:38:42 PM
No jelly for Balymena Sunday lunches

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/jelly-and-gravy-supplies-threatened-when-grace-period-ends-stormont-warns-39981622.html

Sure we can get gravy from the chippy.

Not sure if they stock much in the way of jelly though.

Did Sammy recommend we go to gelatos as well?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 07:51:39 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 18, 2021, 11:29:28 PM
Further lockdowns even with vaccination
3 months ago all we heard from the health experts were science and vaccines will win
Now vaccines are here it's now changed
You couldn't make this up

Did you think everyone would get vaccinated in a few weeks and everything goes back to normal? How long do you think the vaccination process should take?



,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 19, 2021, 09:05:03 AM
QuoteToday there 104 ICU patients across NI against the longterm funded staffing for 72.
Of these 104, 65 are COVID-19 . So we are currently almost filling our normal ICU capacity with just critically ill COVID-19 patients, whilst naturally need continues for other critically patients to be admitted with a range of other diseases.

From...

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10225406918227807&set=a.1273679329990 (https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10225406918227807&set=a.1273679329990)

Franko I am pretty sure that source is reputable enough so should give some answer round ICU capacity etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 19, 2021, 09:23:34 AM
No I don't expect things to get back to normal but when the health minister states yesterday that's when the top 4 cohorts are done by mid February deaths will drop 88% and hospital admissions at least 55% I do think we should be loosening up
Do you want us locked down longer than we need to be?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 09:44:49 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 18, 2021, 11:29:28 PM
Further lockdowns even with vaccination
3 months ago all we heard from the health experts were science and vaccines will win
Now vaccines are here it's now changed
You couldn't make this up

I predicted this months back.

Eventually the slow learners will get on board.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 09:53:14 AM
Until a significant percentage of the population of any country is vaccinated you can't open up as normal. The age of hospital admissions has lowered and covid patients in hospital are no longer just the elderly.

While some posters believe covid is no threat to anyone under 40 the numbers who are currently in hospital would show this clearly isn't the case.

You can't expect any government to make any statement today on what they plan to do in a months time as things can change so quickly. You only have to look at what happened in Ireland over christmas to see that. At the end of the month the government will review things to see where we are and hopefully an easing of restrictions.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 09:53:14 AM


While some posters believe covid is no threat to anyone under 40 the numbers who are currently in hospital would show this clearly isn't the case.


It is statistically proven - 3 deaths from 46k cases in the north.

A 0.0064% fatality rate.

So quit pedalling misinformation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 19, 2021, 10:12:21 AM
Dublin a few extra under 40 are in hospital and what
That happens. They go in get treatment and leave. That's normal so stop using that one constantly
Nobody under 40 are dyin
The hospital numbers in both north and south are now dropping
You read any article this time of year and year this last 10 years and hospitals are always under severe pressure
When the top 4 cohorts are vaccinated why should lockdown continue?
Remember we were told in March 3 weeks to protect the nhs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 19, 2021, 10:28:53 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 19, 2021, 10:12:21 AM
Dublin a few extra under 40 are in hospital and what
That happens. They go in get treatment and leave. That's normal so stop using that one constantly
Nobody under 40 are dyin
The hospital numbers in both north and south are now dropping
You read any article this time of year and year this last 10 years and hospitals are always under severe pressure
When the top 4 cohorts are vaccinated why should lockdown continue?
Remember we were told in March 3 weeks to protect the nhs

Im sure there would be some sort of relaxations after the 4 groups get theirs. However some experts are still adamant that at least 80% of the population needs vaccinated to truly get rid. Un-leashing the 'non vulnerable' could lead to more mutations?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 10:36:01 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 19, 2021, 10:28:53 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 19, 2021, 10:12:21 AM
Dublin a few extra under 40 are in hospital and what
That happens. They go in get treatment and leave. That's normal so stop using that one constantly
Nobody under 40 are dyin
The hospital numbers in both north and south are now dropping
You read any article this time of year and year this last 10 years and hospitals are always under severe pressure
When the top 4 cohorts are vaccinated why should lockdown continue?
Remember we were told in March 3 weeks to protect the nhs



Im sure there would be some sort of relaxations after the 4 groups get theirs. However some experts are still adamant that at least 80% of the population needs vaccinated to truly get rid. Un-leashing the 'non vulnerable' could lead to more mutations?

Are these the same experts who were predicting 15k deaths in the north?

Why the constant fear mongering and misinformation by "experts"?

The data clearly shows us that people who are elderly and in poor health do have significant risk from the virus. If you're fit and healthy you have little to fear from it - but the narrative been spun by governments, health officials and media outlets is in direct contrast to the data. 95% of deaths are over the age of 60, 93% have underlying health conditions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 19, 2021, 10:37:52 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 19, 2021, 09:05:03 AM
QuoteToday there 104 ICU patients across NI against the longterm funded staffing for 72.
Of these 104, 65 are COVID-19 . So we are currently almost filling our normal ICU capacity with just critically ill COVID-19 patients, whilst naturally need continues for other critically patients to be admitted with a range of other diseases.

From...

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10225406918227807&set=a.1273679329990 (https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10225406918227807&set=a.1273679329990)

Franko I am pretty sure that source is reputable enough so should give some answer round ICU capacity etc.

Cheers imtommygunn.

So from this we are WAY over what would be deemed 'normal' capacity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on January 19, 2021, 10:41:40 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 09:53:14 AM
Until a significant percentage of the population of any country is vaccinated you can't open up as normal. The age of hospital admissions has lowered and covid patients in hospital are no longer just the elderly.

While some posters believe covid is no threat to anyone under 40 the numbers who are currently in hospital would show this clearly isn't the case.

You can't expect any government to make any statement today on what they plan to do in a months time as things can change so quickly. You only have to look at what happened in Ireland over christmas to see that. At the end of the month the government will review things to see where we are and hopefully an easing of restrictions.
I'd say they are hoping that the figures will have come down sufficiently by mid February that schools will be allowed back.  I'd say that will be the only thing they will release at that point.  They'll give that 2/3 weeks to see what effect that will have and maybe look to a further release of low risk measures like outdoor sport.  This will be a very gradual process.  Everyone's hope/expectation is that this is the last lockdown.  If they release this lockdown too quickly the governments run the risk of having to tighten measures again and if that were to happen there'd be uproar.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 10:47:29 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2021, 10:37:52 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 19, 2021, 09:05:03 AM
QuoteToday there 104 ICU patients across NI against the longterm funded staffing for 72.
Of these 104, 65 are COVID-19 . So we are currently almost filling our normal ICU capacity with just critically ill COVID-19 patients, whilst naturally need continues for other critically patients to be admitted with a range of other diseases.

From...

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10225406918227807&set=a.1273679329990 (https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10225406918227807&set=a.1273679329990)

Franko I am pretty sure that source is reputable enough so should give some answer round ICU capacity etc.

Cheers imtommygunn.

So from this we are WAY over what would be deemed 'normal' capacity.

Has it been distinguished how many of the 65 critical patients with Covid were admitted due to Covid or who contracted Covid in hospital?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 10:52:31 AM
Quote from: mackers on January 19, 2021, 10:41:40 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 09:53:14 AM
Until a significant percentage of the population of any country is vaccinated you can't open up as normal. The age of hospital admissions has lowered and covid patients in hospital are no longer just the elderly.

While some posters believe covid is no threat to anyone under 40 the numbers who are currently in hospital would show this clearly isn't the case.

You can't expect any government to make any statement today on what they plan to do in a months time as things can change so quickly. You only have to look at what happened in Ireland over christmas to see that. At the end of the month the government will review things to see where we are and hopefully an easing of restrictions.
I'd say they are hoping that the figures will have come down sufficiently by mid February that schools will be allowed back.  I'd say that will be the only thing they will release at that point.  They'll give that 2/3 weeks to see what effect that will have and maybe look to a further release of low risk measures like outdoor sport.  This will be a very gradual process.  Everyone's hope/expectation is that this is the last lockdown.  If they release this lockdown too quickly the governments run the risk of having to tighten measures again and if that were to happen there'd be uproar.

I'd agree with that. I do have some sympathy for the government. They were in a no win scenario before christmas. They eased restrictions, people took the piss and cases exploded. If they hadn't eased restrictions they'd have been crucified by people/media and most would have ignored the restrictions anyway
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 11:01:49 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 10:52:31 AM
Quote from: mackers on January 19, 2021, 10:41:40 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 09:53:14 AM
Until a significant percentage of the population of any country is vaccinated you can't open up as normal. The age of hospital admissions has lowered and covid patients in hospital are no longer just the elderly.

While some posters believe covid is no threat to anyone under 40 the numbers who are currently in hospital would show this clearly isn't the case.

You can't expect any government to make any statement today on what they plan to do in a months time as things can change so quickly. You only have to look at what happened in Ireland over christmas to see that. At the end of the month the government will review things to see where we are and hopefully an easing of restrictions.
I'd say they are hoping that the figures will have come down sufficiently by mid February that schools will be allowed back.  I'd say that will be the only thing they will release at that point.  They'll give that 2/3 weeks to see what effect that will have and maybe look to a further release of low risk measures like outdoor sport.  This will be a very gradual process.  Everyone's hope/expectation is that this is the last lockdown.  If they release this lockdown too quickly the governments run the risk of having to tighten measures again and if that were to happen there'd be uproar.

I'd agree with that. I do have some sympathy for the government. They were in a no win scenario before christmas. They eased restrictions, people took the piss and cases exploded. If they hadn't eased restrictions they'd have been crucified by people/media and most would have ignored the restrictions anyway

So you're saying lockdowns/restrictions aren't practical?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 19, 2021, 11:09:57 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 10:52:31 AM
Quote from: mackers on January 19, 2021, 10:41:40 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 09:53:14 AM
Until a significant percentage of the population of any country is vaccinated you can't open up as normal. The age of hospital admissions has lowered and covid patients in hospital are no longer just the elderly.

While some posters believe covid is no threat to anyone under 40 the numbers who are currently in hospital would show this clearly isn't the case.

You can't expect any government to make any statement today on what they plan to do in a months time as things can change so quickly. You only have to look at what happened in Ireland over christmas to see that. At the end of the month the government will review things to see where we are and hopefully an easing of restrictions.
I'd say they are hoping that the figures will have come down sufficiently by mid February that schools will be allowed back.  I'd say that will be the only thing they will release at that point.  They'll give that 2/3 weeks to see what effect that will have and maybe look to a further release of low risk measures like outdoor sport.  This will be a very gradual process.  Everyone's hope/expectation is that this is the last lockdown.  If they release this lockdown too quickly the governments run the risk of having to tighten measures again and if that were to happen there'd be uproar.

I'd agree with that. I do have some sympathy for the government. They were in a no win scenario before christmas. They eased restrictions, people took the piss and cases exploded. If they hadn't eased restrictions they'd have been crucified by people/media and most would have ignored the restrictions anyway
That's just it.
We'd have ended up with a third wave either way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 19, 2021, 11:16:05 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 19, 2021, 11:09:57 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 10:52:31 AM
Quote from: mackers on January 19, 2021, 10:41:40 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 09:53:14 AM
Until a significant percentage of the population of any country is vaccinated you can't open up as normal. The age of hospital admissions has lowered and covid patients in hospital are no longer just the elderly.

While some posters believe covid is no threat to anyone under 40 the numbers who are currently in hospital would show this clearly isn't the case.

You can't expect any government to make any statement today on what they plan to do in a months time as things can change so quickly. You only have to look at what happened in Ireland over christmas to see that. At the end of the month the government will review things to see where we are and hopefully an easing of restrictions.
I'd say they are hoping that the figures will have come down sufficiently by mid February that schools will be allowed back.  I'd say that will be the only thing they will release at that point.  They'll give that 2/3 weeks to see what effect that will have and maybe look to a further release of low risk measures like outdoor sport.  This will be a very gradual process.  Everyone's hope/expectation is that this is the last lockdown.  If they release this lockdown too quickly the governments run the risk of having to tighten measures again and if that were to happen there'd be uproar.

I'd agree with that. I do have some sympathy for the government. They were in a no win scenario before christmas. They eased restrictions, people took the piss and cases exploded. If they hadn't eased restrictions they'd have been crucified by people/media and most would have ignored the restrictions anyway
That's just it.
We'd have ended up with a third wave either way.

The government was in a no win situation. Saw a poll last week. 70% in November thought the lockdown was unnecessary, then last week 80% thought the government didn't do enough. Myself included especially at the beginning felt the situation was over hyped. But the definitely the UK and NI executive got things badly wrong. The death rate is absolutely astounding in NI. I definitely felt towards October that we needed a strong intervention and what we got was political horse trading. The performance of the executive has cost almost half the lives of the entire troubles in just under a year.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 11:51:10 AM
So the lockdown loonies are now saying lockdowns don't work.

You really could not make it up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on January 19, 2021, 11:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 19, 2021, 11:16:05 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 19, 2021, 11:09:57 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 10:52:31 AM
Quote from: mackers on January 19, 2021, 10:41:40 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 09:53:14 AM
Until a significant percentage of the population of any country is vaccinated you can't open up as normal. The age of hospital admissions has lowered and covid patients in hospital are no longer just the elderly.

While some posters believe covid is no threat to anyone under 40 the numbers who are currently in hospital would show this clearly isn't the case.

You can't expect any government to make any statement today on what they plan to do in a months time as things can change so quickly. You only have to look at what happened in Ireland over christmas to see that. At the end of the month the government will review things to see where we are and hopefully an easing of restrictions.
I'd say they are hoping that the figures will have come down sufficiently by mid February that schools will be allowed back.  I'd say that will be the only thing they will release at that point.  They'll give that 2/3 weeks to see what effect that will have and maybe look to a further release of low risk measures like outdoor sport.  This will be a very gradual process.  Everyone's hope/expectation is that this is the last lockdown.  If they release this lockdown too quickly the governments run the risk of having to tighten measures again and if that were to happen there'd be uproar.

I'd agree with that. I do have some sympathy for the government. They were in a no win scenario before christmas. They eased restrictions, people took the piss and cases exploded. If they hadn't eased restrictions they'd have been crucified by people/media and most would have ignored the restrictions anyway
That's just it.
We'd have ended up with a third wave either way.

The government was in a no win situation. Saw a poll last week. 70% in November thought the lockdown was unnecessary, then last week 80% thought the government didn't do enough. Myself included especially at the beginning felt the situation was over hyped. But the definitely the UK and NI executive got things badly wrong. The death rate is absolutely astounding in NI. I definitely felt towards October that we needed a strong intervention and what we got was political horse trading. The performance of the executive has cost almost half the lives of the entire troubles in just under a year.

I hadn't thought of it that way, figures are astounding.
At the risk of sounding political, I think it's unfair to blame the entire NI executive. The DUP exercised their Veto to get their own way and ride roughshod over what the other 5 parties wanted to do. What makes this even more vile, is that the veto mechanism is in place to ensure cross-community consensus, but the DUP use it to their own ends and have cost countless lives.
Everyone wanted to lock down earlier, cancel the transfer tests earlier....but the DUP seem to be at odds with everyone over the approach to take until it is too late.
IMO, they have single handedly done damaged to this region so badly over the past number of years in terms of Brexit and now Covid, that it will take decades to recover.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 19, 2021, 12:26:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 11:51:10 AM
So the lockdown loonies are now saying lockdowns don't work.

You really could not make it up.

What are you on about? No one has said that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 12:30:05 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 19, 2021, 11:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 19, 2021, 11:16:05 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 19, 2021, 11:09:57 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 10:52:31 AM
Quote from: mackers on January 19, 2021, 10:41:40 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 09:53:14 AM
Until a significant percentage of the population of any country is vaccinated you can't open up as normal. The age of hospital admissions has lowered and covid patients in hospital are no longer just the elderly.

While some posters believe covid is no threat to anyone under 40 the numbers who are currently in hospital would show this clearly isn't the case.

You can't expect any government to make any statement today on what they plan to do in a months time as things can change so quickly. You only have to look at what happened in Ireland over christmas to see that. At the end of the month the government will review things to see where we are and hopefully an easing of restrictions.
I'd say they are hoping that the figures will have come down sufficiently by mid February that schools will be allowed back.  I'd say that will be the only thing they will release at that point.  They'll give that 2/3 weeks to see what effect that will have and maybe look to a further release of low risk measures like outdoor sport.  This will be a very gradual process.  Everyone's hope/expectation is that this is the last lockdown.  If they release this lockdown too quickly the governments run the risk of having to tighten measures again and if that were to happen there'd be uproar.

I'd agree with that. I do have some sympathy for the government. They were in a no win scenario before christmas. They eased restrictions, people took the piss and cases exploded. If they hadn't eased restrictions they'd have been crucified by people/media and most would have ignored the restrictions anyway
That's just it.
We'd have ended up with a third wave either way.

The government was in a no win situation. Saw a poll last week. 70% in November thought the lockdown was unnecessary, then last week 80% thought the government didn't do enough. Myself included especially at the beginning felt the situation was over hyped. But the definitely the UK and NI executive got things badly wrong. The death rate is absolutely astounding in NI. I definitely felt towards October that we needed a strong intervention and what we got was political horse trading. The performance of the executive has cost almost half the lives of the entire troubles in just under a year.

I hadn't thought of it that way, figures are astounding.
At the risk of sounding political, I think it's unfair to blame the entire NI executive. The DUP exercised their Veto to get their own way and ride roughshod over what the other 5 parties wanted to do. What makes this even more vile, is that the veto mechanism is in place to ensure cross-community consensus, but the DUP use it to their own ends and have cost countless lives.
Everyone wanted to lock down earlier, cancel the transfer tests earlier....but the DUP seem to be at odds with everyone over the approach to take until it is too late.
IMO, they have single handedly done damaged to this region so badly over the past number of years in terms of Brexit and now Covid, that it will take decades to recover.

DUP and Arlene want to follow UK's lead as they are part of the UK. Unfortunately they can't accept they are on the island of Ireland and not in the UK. It's as if they're afraid taking an all island approach to tackling covid could get people thinking what a united Ireland would be like and that's their biggest fear.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 19, 2021, 12:30:55 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 11:51:10 AM
So the lockdown loonies are now saying lockdowns don't work.

You really could not make it up.

I don't think anybody is saying "they work". There isn't anyone fond of these lockdowns in fairness. Just some of us hate them more than others.

They do, annoyingly, provide the greatest short term option relief and that's now when they've went from being the last resort, to the only as track and trace is dead, an epic failure.

This one has to work, everybody is kinda hinting towards this being the last one. At this stage, keep it closed until end of March. Do whatever needs to be done. I don't see any point now in opening anything (talking about us in the North) at this upcoming review, whenever that is. Just keep it closed, get your acts together and let that be the end of it when this one is done.

The vaccine is the only option now. Give them 10 more weeks. We should be.......please God, ready to return to "normal" (as can be) then.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on January 19, 2021, 12:38:44 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 12:30:05 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 19, 2021, 11:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 19, 2021, 11:16:05 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 19, 2021, 11:09:57 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 10:52:31 AM
Quote from: mackers on January 19, 2021, 10:41:40 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 09:53:14 AM
Until a significant percentage of the population of any country is vaccinated you can't open up as normal. The age of hospital admissions has lowered and covid patients in hospital are no longer just the elderly.

While some posters believe covid is no threat to anyone under 40 the numbers who are currently in hospital would show this clearly isn't the case.

You can't expect any government to make any statement today on what they plan to do in a months time as things can change so quickly. You only have to look at what happened in Ireland over christmas to see that. At the end of the month the government will review things to see where we are and hopefully an easing of restrictions.
I'd say they are hoping that the figures will have come down sufficiently by mid February that schools will be allowed back.  I'd say that will be the only thing they will release at that point.  They'll give that 2/3 weeks to see what effect that will have and maybe look to a further release of low risk measures like outdoor sport.  This will be a very gradual process.  Everyone's hope/expectation is that this is the last lockdown.  If they release this lockdown too quickly the governments run the risk of having to tighten measures again and if that were to happen there'd be uproar.

I'd agree with that. I do have some sympathy for the government. They were in a no win scenario before christmas. They eased restrictions, people took the piss and cases exploded. If they hadn't eased restrictions they'd have been crucified by people/media and most would have ignored the restrictions anyway
That's just it.
We'd have ended up with a third wave either way.

The government was in a no win situation. Saw a poll last week. 70% in November thought the lockdown was unnecessary, then last week 80% thought the government didn't do enough. Myself included especially at the beginning felt the situation was over hyped. But the definitely the UK and NI executive got things badly wrong. The death rate is absolutely astounding in NI. I definitely felt towards October that we needed a strong intervention and what we got was political horse trading. The performance of the executive has cost almost half the lives of the entire troubles in just under a year.

I hadn't thought of it that way, figures are astounding.
At the risk of sounding political, I think it's unfair to blame the entire NI executive. The DUP exercised their Veto to get their own way and ride roughshod over what the other 5 parties wanted to do. What makes this even more vile, is that the veto mechanism is in place to ensure cross-community consensus, but the DUP use it to their own ends and have cost countless lives.
Everyone wanted to lock down earlier, cancel the transfer tests earlier....but the DUP seem to be at odds with everyone over the approach to take until it is too late.
IMO, they have single handedly done damaged to this region so badly over the past number of years in terms of Brexit and now Covid, that it will take decades to recover.

DUP and Arlene want to follow UK's lead as they are part of the UK. Unfortunately they can't accept they are on the island of Ireland and not in the UK. It's as if they're afraid taking an all island approach to tackling covid could get people thinking what a united Ireland would be like and that's their biggest fear.

That's the point.

Lazy analysis is...sure they're all lunatics (no laughing) up at Stormont but, as alluded to earlier, the DUP is the problem.  Other parties were sensible enough and were in agreement on a lot of things but the public got the view that it was a mess.  The other 4/5 parties were on the same wavelength.

Whether they were right is another question.

The DUP was/is the problem.  We can see this with the outworkings of Brexit in conjunction with this pandemic.   Their decision making on both are inter-linked.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 19, 2021, 12:44:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 19, 2021, 12:30:55 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 11:51:10 AM
So the lockdown loonies are now saying lockdowns don't work.

You really could not make it up.

I don't think anybody is saying "they work". There isn't anyone fond of these lockdowns in fairness. Just some of us hate them more than others.

They do, annoyingly, provide the greatest short term option relief and that's now when they've went from being the last resort, to the only as track and trace is dead, an epic failure.

This one has to work, everybody is kinda hinting towards this being the last one. At this stage, keep it closed until end of March. Do whatever needs to be done. I don't see any point now in opening anything (talking about us in the North) at this upcoming review, whenever that is. Just keep it closed, get your acts together and let that be the end of it when this one is done.

The vaccine is the only option now. Give them 10 more weeks. We should be.......please God, ready to return to "normal" (as can be) then.
Lockdowns only work when we are locked down. There is no point trying to blame lockdowns for numbers increasing after lockdowns have finished and "normal restrictions" have resumed. The fact this actually needs to be spelled out is incredible. Hopefully this will be the last lockdown, but it will depend on what we do after the lockdown that will decide that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 19, 2021, 12:51:07 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 19, 2021, 12:44:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 19, 2021, 12:30:55 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 11:51:10 AM
So the lockdown loonies are now saying lockdowns don't work.

You really could not make it up.

I don't think anybody is saying "they work". There isn't anyone fond of these lockdowns in fairness. Just some of us hate them more than others.

They do, annoyingly, provide the greatest short term option relief and that's now when they've went from being the last resort, to the only as track and trace is dead, an epic failure.

This one has to work, everybody is kinda hinting towards this being the last one. At this stage, keep it closed until end of March. Do whatever needs to be done. I don't see any point now in opening anything (talking about us in the North) at this upcoming review, whenever that is. Just keep it closed, get your acts together and let that be the end of it when this one is done.

The vaccine is the only option now. Give them 10 more weeks. We should be.......please God, ready to return to "normal" (as can be) then.
Lockdowns only work when we are locked down. There is no point trying to blame lockdowns for numbers increasing after lockdowns have finished and "normal restrictions" have resumed. The fact this actually needs to be spelled out is incredible. Hopefully this will be the last lockdown, but it will depend on what we do after the lockdown that will decide that.
Tthe mutant UK version of coronavirus actually kept on replicating during the pre Christmas lockdown whereas the original strain did not.. That is why the UK introduced further restrictions recently,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 19, 2021, 12:59:27 PM
Yeah we know it's a much more contagious strain.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 19, 2021, 01:02:00 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 19, 2021, 12:44:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 19, 2021, 12:30:55 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 11:51:10 AM
So the lockdown loonies are now saying lockdowns don't work.

You really could not make it up.

I don't think anybody is saying "they work". There isn't anyone fond of these lockdowns in fairness. Just some of us hate them more than others.

They do, annoyingly, provide the greatest short term option relief and that's now when they've went from being the last resort, to the only as track and trace is dead, an epic failure.

This one has to work, everybody is kinda hinting towards this being the last one. At this stage, keep it closed until end of March. Do whatever needs to be done. I don't see any point now in opening anything (talking about us in the North) at this upcoming review, whenever that is. Just keep it closed, get your acts together and let that be the end of it when this one is done.

The vaccine is the only option now. Give them 10 more weeks. We should be.......please God, ready to return to "normal" (as can be) then.
Lockdowns only work when we are locked down. There is no point trying to blame lockdowns for numbers increasing after lockdowns have finished and "normal restrictions" have resumed. The fact this actually needs to be spelled out is incredible. Hopefully this will be the last lockdown, but it will depend on what we do after the lockdown that will decide that.

That is where track and trace was supposed to fill the gap. However, anecdotally, I know of ones met up over Xmas, of course passed the virus to each other (all ok thankfully). Uploaded the status to the app and it did not alert the partner of one, for example who was not there and is clearly a close contact (she ended up not getting it, one of those strange Covid examples).

If track and trace is a busted flush, like it appears. We run the risk of another lockdown. It won't be the publics behaviour, (the vast, vast majority of people are behaving, we are being told we aren't and it wears a little thin with me) it's the nature of this virus and the inability of the West to actually get track and trace to anything other than a window dressing level.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 19, 2021, 01:06:59 PM
No a strong government would have stood up and said no restrictions will lift over Christmas. Imagine the plaudits they would have been getting now if they said we are not opening anything over Christmas
A poor run government
They are a mess each and everyone of them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 19, 2021, 01:12:05 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 19, 2021, 01:06:59 PM
No a strong government would have stood up and said no restrictions will lift over Christmas. Imagine the plaudits they would have been getting now if they said we are not opening anything over Christmas
A poor run government
They are a mess each and everyone of them

Agenda
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 19, 2021, 01:14:01 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 19, 2021, 01:06:59 PM
No a strong government would have stood up and said no restrictions will lift over Christmas. Imagine the plaudits they would have been getting now if they said we are not opening anything over Christmas
A poor run government
They are a mess each and everyone of them

That's the problem though.

They wouldn't have gotten any plaudits.

The Julia Hartley Brewers, Angelos and the red top media of this world would be shouting from the rooftops about these draconian restrictions having ruined Christmas and pointing to figures saying there was no need for it.

It's the problem with any preventative measures

The idiots don't think they need them... until they need them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 19, 2021, 01:14:13 PM
Agenda what
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 19, 2021, 01:18:45 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55341779

Well done to the people of Milan.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2021, 01:26:31 PM
if the government put a lockdown over xmas and people adhered to it, you would be on here saying their prediction were wrong and we should have opened up..

i am not sure most people are adhering to the rules and my in laws are case in point. recent close contacts, the person who has covid didnt isolation or stay home from work when told too but did visit the in laws 3 times before testing positive for covid. He told them he was a close contact on the 1st occasion but they still let him into the house after that.

his wife has gone food shopping with the kids since her husband tested positive. An in law went to the local shop yesterday instead of isolating as she got a negative anti body test, didnt have pcr test as no symtoms as yet, doesnt think she done anything wrong.... i imagine they arent the only people acting like this... i read of people stopping for coffee on the way to tests recently too
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 19, 2021, 01:33:16 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 19, 2021, 01:14:13 PM
Agenda what

Look SF are running govt up here- disaster
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 19, 2021, 01:37:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2021, 01:26:31 PM
if the government put a lockdown over xmas and people adhered to it, you would be on here saying their prediction were wrong and we should have opened up..

i am not sure most people are adhering to the rules and my in laws are case in point. recent close contacts, the person who has covid didnt isolation or stay home from work when told too but did visit the in laws 3 times before testing positive for covid. He told them he was a close contact on the 1st occasion but they still let him into the house after that.

his wife has gone food shopping with the kids since her husband tested positive. An in law went to the local shop yesterday instead of isolating as she got a negative anti body test, didnt have pcr test as no symtoms as yet, doesnt think she done anything wrong.... i imagine they arent the only people acting like this... i read of people stopping for coffee on the way to tests recently too

It's so easy to see who has and who hasn't been abiding by the restrictions. The amount of outbreaks in families is wild. You can see a mile away that they're contributing to their own little pandemic.

In relation to a few other points, It's fair to say the DUP have been absolutely terrible on this including sending MPs to London to vote against the recent ENGLISH restrictions. It would be laughable if it wasn't so serious and I would have a huge bout of schadenfreude if one of them was to test positive and fall ill. But it is wrong to exonerate others. The health service in NI is a complete mess. It's so badly run that if those people were in charge of private companies they'd be sacked or the business would be bankrupt. This is all on top of years of nonsense by both SF and the DUP. SF walking out on the executive for ILA which I still haven't seen. SF also showed complete disregard for the regulations in the summer and no matter what they say it knocked public confidence and strained relations in the executive when what was required was cohesion and unity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 19, 2021, 01:41:16 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2021, 01:26:31 PM
if the government put a lockdown over xmas and people adhered to it, you would be on here saying their prediction were wrong and we should have opened up..

i am not sure most people are adhering to the rules and my in laws are case in point. recent close contacts, the person who has covid didnt isolation or stay home from work when told too but did visit the in laws 3 times before testing positive for covid. He told them he was a close contact on the 1st occasion but they still let him into the house after that.

his wife has gone food shopping with the kids since her husband tested positive. An in law went to the local shop yesterday instead of isolating as she got a negative anti body test, didnt have pcr test as no symtoms as yet, doesnt think she done anything wrong.... i imagine they arent the only people acting like this... i read of people stopping for coffee on the way to tests recently too

This is exactly what has been fuelling the whole thing, this whole time. Not these mass of house parties that people seem to think exist in every town.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 01:46:40 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2021, 01:26:31 PM
if the government put a lockdown over xmas and people adhered to it, you would be on here saying their prediction were wrong and we should have opened up..

i am not sure most people are adhering to the rules and my in laws are case in point. recent close contacts, the person who has covid didnt isolation or stay home from work when told too but did visit the in laws 3 times before testing positive for covid. He told them he was a close contact on the 1st occasion but they still let him into the house after that.

his wife has gone food shopping with the kids since her husband tested positive. An in law went to the local shop yesterday instead of isolating as she got a negative anti body test, didnt have pcr test as no symtoms as yet, doesnt think she done anything wrong.... i imagine they arent the only people acting like this... i read of people stopping for coffee on the way to tests recently too

So lockdowns aren't practical?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on January 19, 2021, 01:58:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2021, 01:26:31 PM
if the government put a lockdown over xmas and people adhered to it, you would be on here saying their prediction were wrong and we should have opened up..

i am not sure most people are adhering to the rules and my in laws are case in point. recent close contacts, the person who has covid didnt isolation or stay home from work when told too but did visit the in laws 3 times before testing positive for covid. He told them he was a close contact on the 1st occasion but they still let him into the house after that.

his wife has gone food shopping with the kids since her husband tested positive. An in law went to the local shop yesterday instead of isolating as she got a negative anti body test, didnt have pcr test as no symtoms as yet, doesnt think she done anything wrong.... i imagine they arent the only people acting like this... i read of people stopping for coffee on the way to tests recently too

This is a huge problem, the same is happening all over the country. A family acting the maggot can take down half a village & then plead "sure I did nothing wrong". I know of one particular family who really have made utter cun%s out of themselves & are not lepers in the village. The trail of destruction they left is biblical. One of them didn't get tested as he would lose out on Christmas overtime, the lad would have been getting 850 euros a week if he stayed at home. My wife and son got if from our childminder who through no fault of her own, got it from this family. We had to isolate as a family over the Christmas, my 3 other kids & I did not pick it up despite been close contact with the other 2 for the 17 days, I was also more in contact with the childminder than the wife as I do pick ups 80 percent of the time.
There seems to be super spreaders like the family / child minder others don't appear to spread it near as bad. I mean my young fella that had it would have accidently cloughed over me a few times on the couch, we would have accidently drank out of the same glass at dinner, so the spread of infection is variable. Would have slept in the same bed as wife & still didnt pick it up, was tested 3 times at different intervals btw.
The track and trace was a complete disaster & a stain on our public health system. The horse had bolted long after the damage was done. If it was down right much more lives could have been saved.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 19, 2021, 02:02:02 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 19, 2021, 01:37:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2021, 01:26:31 PM
if the government put a lockdown over xmas and people adhered to it, you would be on here saying their prediction were wrong and we should have opened up..

i am not sure most people are adhering to the rules and my in laws are case in point. recent close contacts, the person who has covid didnt isolation or stay home from work when told too but did visit the in laws 3 times before testing positive for covid. He told them he was a close contact on the 1st occasion but they still let him into the house after that.

his wife has gone food shopping with the kids since her husband tested positive. An in law went to the local shop yesterday instead of isolating as she got a negative anti body test, didnt have pcr test as no symtoms as yet, doesnt think she done anything wrong.... i imagine they arent the only people acting like this... i read of people stopping for coffee on the way to tests recently too

It's so easy to see who has and who hasn't been abiding by the restrictions. The amount of outbreaks in families is wild. You can see a mile away that they're contributing to their own little pandemic.

In relation to a few other points, It's fair to say the DUP have been absolutely terrible on this including sending MPs to London to vote against the recent ENGLISH restrictions. It would be laughable if it wasn't so serious and I would have a huge bout of schadenfreude if one of them was to test positive and fall ill. But it is wrong to exonerate others. The health service in NI is a complete mess. It's so badly run that if those people were in charge of private companies they'd be sacked or the business would be bankrupt. This is all on top of years of nonsense by both SF and the DUP. SF walking out on the executive for ILA which I still haven't seen. SF also showed complete disregard for the regulations in the summer and no matter what they say it knocked public confidence and strained relations in the executive when what was required was cohesion and unity.

Trailer I used to disagree with pretty much everything you said but now I find myself agreeing lol. I would fully agree with this. The DUP are not 100% to blame but they should take a lot of flak. Sammy Wilson is a real life Angelo. Jim Shannon is clearly a basket case. They just don't help themselves. The SF funeral thing had a big impact too. At least they have stopped now. The DUP still traveling to London is typical of them You would be shocked if it wasn't them.

The stormont executive is actually beyond dysfunctional now. It is actually almost of negative value. The DUP would actually cost lives just to spite Dublin I think. They are beyond ridiculous now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:04:32 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 19, 2021, 02:02:02 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 19, 2021, 01:37:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2021, 01:26:31 PM
if the government put a lockdown over xmas and people adhered to it, you would be on here saying their prediction were wrong and we should have opened up..

i am not sure most people are adhering to the rules and my in laws are case in point. recent close contacts, the person who has covid didnt isolation or stay home from work when told too but did visit the in laws 3 times before testing positive for covid. He told them he was a close contact on the 1st occasion but they still let him into the house after that.

his wife has gone food shopping with the kids since her husband tested positive. An in law went to the local shop yesterday instead of isolating as she got a negative anti body test, didnt have pcr test as no symtoms as yet, doesnt think she done anything wrong.... i imagine they arent the only people acting like this... i read of people stopping for coffee on the way to tests recently too

It's so easy to see who has and who hasn't been abiding by the restrictions. The amount of outbreaks in families is wild. You can see a mile away that they're contributing to their own little pandemic.

In relation to a few other points, It's fair to say the DUP have been absolutely terrible on this including sending MPs to London to vote against the recent ENGLISH restrictions. It would be laughable if it wasn't so serious and I would have a huge bout of schadenfreude if one of them was to test positive and fall ill. But it is wrong to exonerate others. The health service in NI is a complete mess. It's so badly run that if those people were in charge of private companies they'd be sacked or the business would be bankrupt. This is all on top of years of nonsense by both SF and the DUP. SF walking out on the executive for ILA which I still haven't seen. SF also showed complete disregard for the regulations in the summer and no matter what they say it knocked public confidence and strained relations in the executive when what was required was cohesion and unity.

Trailer I used to disagree with pretty much everything you said but now I find myself agreeing lol. I would fully agree with this. The DUP are not 100% to blame but they should take a lot of flak. Sammy Wilson is a real life Angelo. Jim Shannon is clearly a basket case. They just don't help themselves. The SF funeral thing had a big impact too. At least they have stopped now. The DUP still traveling to London is typical of them You would be shocked if it wasn't them.

The stormont executive is actually beyond dysfunctional now. It is actually almost of negative value. The DUP would actually cost lives just to spite Dublin I think. They are beyond ridiculous now.

So because you are a hypocrite does that you mean you are actually Sammy Wilson?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2021, 02:11:33 PM
Quote from: Rudi on January 19, 2021, 01:58:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2021, 01:26:31 PM
if the government put a lockdown over xmas and people adhered to it, you would be on here saying their prediction were wrong and we should have opened up..

i am not sure most people are adhering to the rules and my in laws are case in point. recent close contacts, the person who has covid didnt isolation or stay home from work when told too but did visit the in laws 3 times before testing positive for covid. He told them he was a close contact on the 1st occasion but they still let him into the house after that.

his wife has gone food shopping with the kids since her husband tested positive. An in law went to the local shop yesterday instead of isolating as she got a negative anti body test, didnt have pcr test as no symtoms as yet, doesnt think she done anything wrong.... i imagine they arent the only people acting like this... i read of people stopping for coffee on the way to tests recently too

This is a huge problem, the same is happening all over the country. A family acting the maggot can take down half a village & then plead "sure I did nothing wrong". I know of one particular family who really have made utter cun%s out of themselves & are not lepers in the village. The trail of destruction they left is biblical. One of them didn't get tested as he would lose out on Christmas overtime, the lad would have been getting 850 euros a week if he stayed at home. My wife and son got if from our childminder who through no fault of her own, got it from this family. We had to isolate as a family over the Christmas, my 3 other kids & I did not pick it up despite been close contact with the other 2 for the 17 days, I was also more in contact with the childminder than the wife as I do pick ups 80 percent of the time.
There seems to be super spreaders like the family / child minder others don't appear to spread it near as bad. I mean my young fella that had it would have accidently cloughed over me a few times on the couch, we would have accidently drank out of the same glass at dinner, so the spread of infection is variable. Would have slept in the same bed as wife & still didnt pick it up, was tested 3 times at different intervals btw.
The track and trace was a complete disaster & a stain on our public health system. The horse had bolted long after the damage was done. If it was down right much more lives could have been saved.

t&t was poor but 1 in 4 were not turning up for testing i remember reading reports back in September...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on January 19, 2021, 02:20:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 09:53:14 AM


While some posters believe covid is no threat to anyone under 40 the numbers who are currently in hospital would show this clearly isn't the case.


It is statistically proven - 3 deaths from 46k cases in the north.

A 0.0064% fatality rate.

So quit pedalling misinformation.

Angelo, you continually miss, or choose to ignore the point.
Deaths are not the only statistic to worry about.
Hospitals are inundated with Covid patients. That statistics show that in this wave the age profile of hospital admissions is much lower than it previously was.
Not all hospital admissions will die now, or in the previous wave. But they still need hospital care and in many cases intensive care.
Lockdown is simply a tool to use when things are at their worst to relieve the pressure on the hospital systems but will inevitably also save lives.
I haven't seen anyone say it will stop the virus 100%.
I'd like to know what your definition of "works" is? You have a very blinkered one sided view on the need for lockdowns that doesn't seem to acknowledge at all the need to protect the hospitals as well as the lives of those vulnerable people in society.
   

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 19, 2021, 02:23:59 PM
24 (Twenty Four) deaths in the North today.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:29:17 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 19, 2021, 02:20:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 09:53:14 AM


While some posters believe covid is no threat to anyone under 40 the numbers who are currently in hospital would show this clearly isn't the case.


It is statistically proven - 3 deaths from 46k cases in the north.

A 0.0064% fatality rate.

So quit pedalling misinformation.

Angelo, you continually miss, or choose to ignore the point.
Deaths are not the only statistic to worry about.
Hospitals are inundated with Covid patients. That statistics show that in this wave the age profile of hospital admissions is much lower than it previously was.
Not all hospital admissions will die now, or in the previous wave. But they still need hospital care and in many cases intensive care.
Lockdown is simply a tool to use when things are at their worst to relieve the pressure on the hospital systems but will inevitably also save lives.
I haven't seen anyone say it will stop the virus 100%.
I'd like to know what your definition of "works" is? You have a very blinkered one sided view on the need for lockdowns that doesn't seem to acknowledge at all the need to protect the hospitals as well as the lives of those vulnerable people in society.


You're the one consistently and deliberately refusing to acknowledge the absolute fact that we have had 3 deaths in 46k positive cases of Covid in the u40 category. It's not an issue for that age grouping - Covid is not a threat like road traffic accidents, alcohol related deaths, suicide etc so why do we take such half measures on those threats and go draconian on Covid. If we really had the appetite to tackle any cause of death we could do it. Will we know ban fast food takeaways given the large correlation between people who gorge on fastfood.

There are some massive contradictions at play here from you guys.

We can take extreme measure to reduce road deaths? Will we take those measure or will we just live with an acceptable amount of road deaths each year?

Or are you only interested in taking preventative measure to stop Covid deaths but people can continue to die as long as it's not from Covid.

The big issue for me at the minute is the spread in hospitals. Staff and patients are picking up Covid at an enormous rate in medical settings, not in community settings and this is scandalous.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 19, 2021, 02:32:56 PM
46% rise in carehome deaths in England this past 2 months
I would imagine that the north wouldn't be overly different
Criminal. Sort that carehomes ASAP
We are making the same mistake as March
Over 50% of deaths have occurred in carehomes in the north
Fifty per cent
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:34:42 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 19, 2021, 02:32:56 PM
46% rise in carehome deaths in England this past 2 months
I would imagine that the north wouldn't be overly different
Criminal. Sort that carehomes ASAP
We are making the same mistake as March
Over 50% of deaths have occurred in carehomes in the north
Fifty per cent

A huge issue.

This and the transmission rates in hospitals are the huge scandals here.

But it's easier for governments to lay the blame at the people rather than how they have failed the elderly and the vulnerable repeatedly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2021, 02:42:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 19, 2021, 02:02:02 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 19, 2021, 01:37:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2021, 01:26:31 PM
if the government put a lockdown over xmas and people adhered to it, you would be on here saying their prediction were wrong and we should have opened up..

i am not sure most people are adhering to the rules and my in laws are case in point. recent close contacts, the person who has covid didnt isolation or stay home from work when told too but did visit the in laws 3 times before testing positive for covid. He told them he was a close contact on the 1st occasion but they still let him into the house after that.

his wife has gone food shopping with the kids since her husband tested positive. An in law went to the local shop yesterday instead of isolating as she got a negative anti body test, didnt have pcr test as no symtoms as yet, doesnt think she done anything wrong.... i imagine they arent the only people acting like this... i read of people stopping for coffee on the way to tests recently too

It's so easy to see who has and who hasn't been abiding by the restrictions. The amount of outbreaks in families is wild. You can see a mile away that they're contributing to their own little pandemic.

In relation to a few other points, It's fair to say the DUP have been absolutely terrible on this including sending MPs to London to vote against the recent ENGLISH restrictions. It would be laughable if it wasn't so serious and I would have a huge bout of schadenfreude if one of them was to test positive and fall ill. But it is wrong to exonerate others. The health service in NI is a complete mess. It's so badly run that if those people were in charge of private companies they'd be sacked or the business would be bankrupt. This is all on top of years of nonsense by both SF and the DUP. SF walking out on the executive for ILA which I still haven't seen. SF also showed complete disregard for the regulations in the summer and no matter what they say it knocked public confidence and strained relations in the executive when what was required was cohesion and unity.

Trailer I used to disagree with pretty much everything you said but now I find myself agreeing lol. I would fully agree with this. The DUP are not 100% to blame but they should take a lot of flak. Sammy Wilson is a real life Angelo. Jim Shannon is clearly a basket case. They just don't help themselves. The SF funeral thing had a big impact too. At least they have stopped now. The DUP still traveling to London is typical of them You would be shocked if it wasn't them.

The stormont executive is actually beyond dysfunctional now. It is actually almost of negative value. The DUP would actually cost lives just to spite Dublin I think. They are beyond ridiculous now.

So for a lot of people there has been no lockdown and they haven't adhered to the rules and the rule enforcers have not really clamped down on the ones breaking lockdown because there is no real direction from either governments.

So how can we view the lockdowns as being a failure if there is a lot of twats walking around not giving a fcuk and saying "I'm alright jack cause I'm under 40 and won't die from this"..

The first lockdown brought about a massive drop in cases to the point of zero, and no deaths because people rowed in behind the advice, then we had the covid deniers and social media telling everyone that it was ok to head out and do what you want as the chances of catching is slim and no illness.

There are so many at fault, and no doubt if I assess myself I could have done better, but due to personal family reasons, I was the main career for dad during his appointments I was in a difficult position.

Big transmissions in hospitals: How did that happen? did someone catch Covid from someone else and brought it into hospital? Or did it just manifest in the hospital?

Growth of the virus in the hospitals and the nursing homes at the start was due to no PPE or poor PPE, also poor sanitizing standards in these areas. Not using the nightinggale hospitals was wrong also regardless of the numbers no covid cases should have entered any hospital bar the the Nightinggale ones.

But for some reason, its still happening in hospitals, why?

Opening up will only make the numbers bigger again, as its the same people who'll transmit this on, those who don't follow the rules, because it doesn't apply to their demographic, again, I'm alright f**k them.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:46:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2021, 02:42:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 19, 2021, 02:02:02 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 19, 2021, 01:37:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2021, 01:26:31 PM
if the government put a lockdown over xmas and people adhered to it, you would be on here saying their prediction were wrong and we should have opened up..

i am not sure most people are adhering to the rules and my in laws are case in point. recent close contacts, the person who has covid didnt isolation or stay home from work when told too but did visit the in laws 3 times before testing positive for covid. He told them he was a close contact on the 1st occasion but they still let him into the house after that.

his wife has gone food shopping with the kids since her husband tested positive. An in law went to the local shop yesterday instead of isolating as she got a negative anti body test, didnt have pcr test as no symtoms as yet, doesnt think she done anything wrong.... i imagine they arent the only people acting like this... i read of people stopping for coffee on the way to tests recently too

It's so easy to see who has and who hasn't been abiding by the restrictions. The amount of outbreaks in families is wild. You can see a mile away that they're contributing to their own little pandemic.

In relation to a few other points, It's fair to say the DUP have been absolutely terrible on this including sending MPs to London to vote against the recent ENGLISH restrictions. It would be laughable if it wasn't so serious and I would have a huge bout of schadenfreude if one of them was to test positive and fall ill. But it is wrong to exonerate others. The health service in NI is a complete mess. It's so badly run that if those people were in charge of private companies they'd be sacked or the business would be bankrupt. This is all on top of years of nonsense by both SF and the DUP. SF walking out on the executive for ILA which I still haven't seen. SF also showed complete disregard for the regulations in the summer and no matter what they say it knocked public confidence and strained relations in the executive when what was required was cohesion and unity.

Trailer I used to disagree with pretty much everything you said but now I find myself agreeing lol. I would fully agree with this. The DUP are not 100% to blame but they should take a lot of flak. Sammy Wilson is a real life Angelo. Jim Shannon is clearly a basket case. They just don't help themselves. The SF funeral thing had a big impact too. At least they have stopped now. The DUP still traveling to London is typical of them You would be shocked if it wasn't them.

The stormont executive is actually beyond dysfunctional now. It is actually almost of negative value. The DUP would actually cost lives just to spite Dublin I think. They are beyond ridiculous now.

So for a lot of people there has been no lockdown and they haven't adhered to the rules and the rule enforcers have not really clamped down on the ones breaking lockdown because there is no real direction from either governments.

So how can we view the lockdowns as being a failure if there is a lot of twats walking around not giving a fcuk and saying "I'm alright jack cause I'm under 40 and won't die from this"..

The first lockdown brought about a massive drop in cases to the point of zero, and no deaths because people rowed in behind the advice, then we had the covid deniers and social media telling everyone that it was ok to head out and do what you want as the chances of catching is slim and no illness.

There are so many at fault, and no doubt if I assess myself I could have done better, but due to personal family reasons, I was the main career for dad during his appointments I was in a difficult position.

Big transmissions in hospitals: How did that happen? did someone catch Covid from someone else and brought it into hospital? Or did it just manifest in the hospital?

Growth of the virus in the hospitals and the nursing homes at the start was due to no PPE or poor PPE, also poor sanitizing standards in these areas. Not using the nightinggale hospitals was wrong also regardless of the numbers no covid cases should have entered any hospital bar the the Nightinggale ones.

But for some reason, its still happening in hospitals, why?

Opening up will only make the numbers bigger again, as its the same people who'll transmit this on, those who don't follow the rules, because it doesn't apply to their demographic, again, I'm alright f**k them.


I'll spell it out for you Einstein......

They are a failure because quite clearly they haven't worked. They have failed to bring down cases, they are not practical and they are not sustainable and cause far more damage than they stop. You've just said why they don't work while saying that we can't view them as a failure. You managed to contradict yourself in one statement.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2021, 02:49:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 19, 2021, 02:23:59 PM
24 (Twenty Four) deaths in the North today.

Can you imagine if that was 24 deaths due to traffic accidents? The country would put in measure to stop that, I mean If you had 24 people dying from road traffic accidents the government would put in pace a whole draft of measures to ensure that these accidents would be reduced.

Anyway, putting strict measures in place wouldn't change that stat, MOT, seatbelts, speed restrictions, drink driving penalties, using your phone. None of these have brought about safer driving and less deaths on the roads
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:51:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2021, 02:49:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 19, 2021, 02:23:59 PM
24 (Twenty Four) deaths in the North today.

Can you imagine if that was 24 deaths due to traffic accidents? The country would put in measure to stop that, I mean If you had 24 people dying from road traffic accidents the government would put in pace a whole draft of measures to ensure that these accidents would be reduced.

Anyway, putting strict measures in place wouldn't change that stat, MOT, seatbelts, speed restrictions, drink driving penalties, using your phone. None of these have brought about safer driving and less deaths on the roads

They are half measures.

Strict measures would be chipping cars to max speeds of 20mp, multiplying the number of checkpoints to 50 times the level, upping the driver age to 25 etc, etc.

Half measures for road deaths, draconian measures for Covid.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 19, 2021, 02:51:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2021, 02:42:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 19, 2021, 02:02:02 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 19, 2021, 01:37:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2021, 01:26:31 PM
if the government put a lockdown over xmas and people adhered to it, you would be on here saying their prediction were wrong and we should have opened up..

i am not sure most people are adhering to the rules and my in laws are case in point. recent close contacts, the person who has covid didnt isolation or stay home from work when told too but did visit the in laws 3 times before testing positive for covid. He told them he was a close contact on the 1st occasion but they still let him into the house after that.

his wife has gone food shopping with the kids since her husband tested positive. An in law went to the local shop yesterday instead of isolating as she got a negative anti body test, didnt have pcr test as no symtoms as yet, doesnt think she done anything wrong.... i imagine they arent the only people acting like this... i read of people stopping for coffee on the way to tests recently too

It's so easy to see who has and who hasn't been abiding by the restrictions. The amount of outbreaks in families is wild. You can see a mile away that they're contributing to their own little pandemic.

In relation to a few other points, It's fair to say the DUP have been absolutely terrible on this including sending MPs to London to vote against the recent ENGLISH restrictions. It would be laughable if it wasn't so serious and I would have a huge bout of schadenfreude if one of them was to test positive and fall ill. But it is wrong to exonerate others. The health service in NI is a complete mess. It's so badly run that if those people were in charge of private companies they'd be sacked or the business would be bankrupt. This is all on top of years of nonsense by both SF and the DUP. SF walking out on the executive for ILA which I still haven't seen. SF also showed complete disregard for the regulations in the summer and no matter what they say it knocked public confidence and strained relations in the executive when what was required was cohesion and unity.

Trailer I used to disagree with pretty much everything you said but now I find myself agreeing lol. I would fully agree with this. The DUP are not 100% to blame but they should take a lot of flak. Sammy Wilson is a real life Angelo. Jim Shannon is clearly a basket case. They just don't help themselves. The SF funeral thing had a big impact too. At least they have stopped now. The DUP still traveling to London is typical of them You would be shocked if it wasn't them.

The stormont executive is actually beyond dysfunctional now. It is actually almost of negative value. The DUP would actually cost lives just to spite Dublin I think. They are beyond ridiculous now.

So for a lot of people there has been no lockdown and they haven't adhered to the rules and the rule enforcers have not really clamped down on the ones breaking lockdown because there is no real direction from either governments.

So how can we view the lockdowns as being a failure if there is a lot of twats walking around not giving a fcuk and saying "I'm alright jack cause I'm under 40 and won't die from this"..

The first lockdown brought about a massive drop in cases to the point of zero, and no deaths because people rowed in behind the advice, then we had the covid deniers and social media telling everyone that it was ok to head out and do what you want as the chances of catching is slim and no illness.

There are so many at fault, and no doubt if I assess myself I could have done better, but due to personal family reasons, I was the main career for dad during his appointments I was in a difficult position.

Big transmissions in hospitals: How did that happen? did someone catch Covid from someone else and brought it into hospital? Or did it just manifest in the hospital?

Growth of the virus in the hospitals and the nursing homes at the start was due to no PPE or poor PPE, also poor sanitizing standards in these areas. Not using the nightinggale hospitals was wrong also regardless of the numbers no covid cases should have entered any hospital bar the the Nightinggale ones.

But for some reason, its still happening in hospitals, why?

Opening up will only make the numbers bigger again, as its the same people who'll transmit this on, those who don't follow the rules, because it doesn't apply to their demographic, again, I'm alright f**k them.

I heard some background noise there ;D

The nightingale hospitals IMO were more a PR thing. You can see that the numbers of ICU beds jump up and down so the capacity can be increased / reduced.

I think a large majority of people could have done better but I do think the government up here have been an utter failure on it too.

Opening up is a massive quandry now especially with schools. I suspect we're in this until March at least.(I suspect north and south).

There were 50 on ventilators the other day. It sounds pretty much like you'e 50:50 at best when you're on those. Sadly there will be those kind of numbers for this week anyway I imagine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on January 19, 2021, 02:53:35 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 19, 2021, 02:20:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 09:53:14 AM


While some posters believe covid is no threat to anyone under 40 the numbers who are currently in hospital would show this clearly isn't the case.


It is statistically proven - 3 deaths from 46k cases in the north.

A 0.0064% fatality rate.

So quit pedalling misinformation.

Angelo, you continually miss, or choose to ignore the point.
Deaths are not the only statistic to worry about.
Hospitals are inundated with Covid patients. That statistics show that in this wave the age profile of hospital admissions is much lower than it previously was.
Not all hospital admissions will die now, or in the previous wave. But they still need hospital care and in many cases intensive care.
Lockdown is simply a tool to use when things are at their worst to relieve the pressure on the hospital systems but will inevitably also save lives.
I haven't seen anyone say it will stop the virus 100%.
I'd like to know what your definition of "works" is? You have a very blinkered one sided view on the need for lockdowns that doesn't seem to acknowledge at all the need to protect the hospitals as well as the lives of those vulnerable people in society.


This is spot on. Far too many people are focused on the death rate or did they die of covid or with it as if that justifies something. There is also a rush to compare this with other illnesses when it isn't like any of these. There is an absolute failure to understand that hospitals are overflowing with COVID patients who require extensive medical treatment and because of this valuable bed space that is needed for all the other day to day stuff the health service is not there. Lockdowns would not be needed if people heeded the advice to social distance, wash their hands and wear a mask. These things won't make COVID go away but they have enough of an impact to ensure the majority of people can get on with their day to day business to a manageable level. It also means hospitals are not overrun and can continue to operate to an effective degree dealing with all the normal things they do.

But no, there are far too many people who know better and adopt the feck everyone else, I'm alright attitude. It is because of this we need lockdowns. No sane person or government wants to be doing these things but they are a last resort to prevent hospitals from being completely overwhelmed. Doctors and nurses are already fearing court cases and investigations if they have to make difficult decisions to save one person over another. It's a vicious circle but people have the ability to drastically change things. They should have enough wit at this stage to do the right thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:59:12 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 19, 2021, 02:53:35 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 19, 2021, 02:20:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 09:57:44 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 09:53:14 AM


While some posters believe covid is no threat to anyone under 40 the numbers who are currently in hospital would show this clearly isn't the case.


It is statistically proven - 3 deaths from 46k cases in the north.

A 0.0064% fatality rate.

So quit pedalling misinformation.

Angelo, you continually miss, or choose to ignore the point.
Deaths are not the only statistic to worry about.
Hospitals are inundated with Covid patients. That statistics show that in this wave the age profile of hospital admissions is much lower than it previously was.
Not all hospital admissions will die now, or in the previous wave. But they still need hospital care and in many cases intensive care.
Lockdown is simply a tool to use when things are at their worst to relieve the pressure on the hospital systems but will inevitably also save lives.
I haven't seen anyone say it will stop the virus 100%.
I'd like to know what your definition of "works" is? You have a very blinkered one sided view on the need for lockdowns that doesn't seem to acknowledge at all the need to protect the hospitals as well as the lives of those vulnerable people in society.


This is spot on. Far too many people are focused on the death rate or did they die of covid or with it as if that justifies something. There is also a rush to compare this with other illnesses when it isn't like any of these. There is an absolute failure to understand that hospitals are overflowing with COVID patients who require extensive medical treatment and because of this valuable bed space that is needed for all the other day to day stuff the health service is not there. Lockdowns would not be needed if people heeded the advice to social distance, wash their hands and wear a mask. These things won't make COVID go away but they have enough of an impact to ensure the majority of people can get on with their day to day business to a manageable level. It also means hospitals are not overrun and can continue to operate to an effective degree dealing with all the normal things they do.

But no, there are far too many people who know better and adopt the feck everyone else, I'm alright attitude. It is because of this we need lockdowns. No sane person or government wants to be doing these things but they are a last resort to prevent hospitals from being completely overwhelmed. Doctors and nurses are already fearing court cases and investigations if they have to make difficult decisions to save one person over another. It's a vicious circle but people have the ability to drastically change things. They should have enough wit at this stage to do the right thing.

Yet we only gave a shit about this when Covid came around?

It's almost like we don't have a very contagious virus that comes around every winter, puts the health service under enormous strain and kills people.

When it was called flu, it was grand for people to die.

This is a health service failing.

You can ignore the data all you want but Covid is not a threat to u40s. It is a threat to the elderly and vulnerable and they have been failed by the state due to an understaffed and underresourced health system.

The education of the children, the physical and mental wellbeing of the island, the economy, employment, vulnerable groupings who need support services have all been cast aside, sacrificed - for what end I ask?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:06:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2021, 02:49:25 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 19, 2021, 02:23:59 PM
24 (Twenty Four) deaths in the North today.

Can you imagine if that was 24 deaths due to traffic accidents? The country would put in measure to stop that, I mean If you had 24 people dying from road traffic accidents the government would put in pace a whole draft of measures to ensure that these accidents would be reduced.

Anyway, putting strict measures in place wouldn't change that stat, MOT, seatbelts, speed restrictions, drink driving penalties, using your phone. None of these have brought about safer driving and less deaths on the roads

I know it's off topic but even with the lockdowns road deaths in Ireland were higher in 2020 than they were in 2019. That's a strange and worrying statistic.

Getting close to the 100K mark for confirmed cases in NI now as well. Just gone past 96K and at the current rate the 100K mark will be reached by the weekend. That's a depressing and sobering landmark.

 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on January 19, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:59:12 PM
The education of the children, the physical and mental wellbeing of the island, the economy, employment, vulnerable groupings who need support services have all been cast aside, sacrificed - for what end I ask?
I thought it was pretty fundamental - the hospitals will not cope if we pretend covid doesn't exist and let things continue as normal. They can barely cope as it is and it's almost a year since the outbreak. I support a return to normality as soon as possible but covid deniers really need to catch themselves on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:15:48 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 19, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:59:12 PM
The education of the children, the physical and mental wellbeing of the island, the economy, employment, vulnerable groupings who need support services have all been cast aside, sacrificed - for what end I ask?
I thought it was pretty fundamental - the hospitals will not cope if we pretend covid doesn't exist and let things continue as normal. They can barely cope as it is and it's almost a year since the outbreak. I support a return to normality as soon as possible but covid deniers really need to catch themselves on

I'm not a Covid denier. I think Lockdowns cause far more harm than good.

Every winter hospitals are under pressure with seasonal flu, every winter we are happy to enjoy our freedoms and live our lives with deaths spiking and flu killing off the elderly and vulnerable so I ask why did we start caring about Covid.

We have 4k deaths from cancer every year - we know the harm the likes of fast food, smoking and alcohol have with cancer, heart disease and other health problems. Are we serious about fighting cancer or heart disease or do we just not care as much as we do about Covid? If we are then why do we only take half measures? We all know young people who died in road traffic accidents, mother and fathers who bury their children as a result on this but have we ever taken draconian measures on this?

What is so special about Covid that we take this action on this cause of death when we could do so much more for other things that kill people too.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:23:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:15:48 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 19, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:59:12 PM
The education of the children, the physical and mental wellbeing of the island, the economy, employment, vulnerable groupings who need support services have all been cast aside, sacrificed - for what end I ask?
I thought it was pretty fundamental - the hospitals will not cope if we pretend covid doesn't exist and let things continue as normal. They can barely cope as it is and it's almost a year since the outbreak. I support a return to normality as soon as possible but covid deniers really need to catch themselves on

I'm not a Covid denier. I think Lockdowns cause far more harm than good.

Every winter hospitals are under pressure with seasonal flu, every winter we are happy to enjoy our freedoms and live our lives with deaths spiking and flu killing off the elderly and vulnerable so I ask why did we start caring about Covid.

We have 4k deaths from cancer every year - we know the harm the likes of fast food, smoking and alcohol have with cancer, heart disease and other health problems. Are we serious about fighting cancer or heart disease or do we just not care as much as we do about Covid? If we are then why do we only take half measures? We all know young people who died in road traffic accidents, mother and fathers who bury their children as a result on this but have we ever taken draconian measures on this?

What is so special about Covid that we take this action on this cause of death when we could do so much more for other things that kill people too.

You can choose to drink alcohol. If you drink excess amounts alcohol it will only damage your body and nobody else. If individuals (especially young people) refuse to follow lockdown rules, wear masks etc and ignore all medical advice they can pick up covid and pass it on to an infinite amount of individuals and cause an infinite amount of deaths for innocent people.

Why should families have to bury other family members due to someone else's selfishness and disregard for human life?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:27:01 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:23:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:15:48 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 19, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:59:12 PM
The education of the children, the physical and mental wellbeing of the island, the economy, employment, vulnerable groupings who need support services have all been cast aside, sacrificed - for what end I ask?
I thought it was pretty fundamental - the hospitals will not cope if we pretend covid doesn't exist and let things continue as normal. They can barely cope as it is and it's almost a year since the outbreak. I support a return to normality as soon as possible but covid deniers really need to catch themselves on

I'm not a Covid denier. I think Lockdowns cause far more harm than good.

Every winter hospitals are under pressure with seasonal flu, every winter we are happy to enjoy our freedoms and live our lives with deaths spiking and flu killing off the elderly and vulnerable so I ask why did we start caring about Covid.

We have 4k deaths from cancer every year - we know the harm the likes of fast food, smoking and alcohol have with cancer, heart disease and other health problems. Are we serious about fighting cancer or heart disease or do we just not care as much as we do about Covid? If we are then why do we only take half measures? We all know young people who died in road traffic accidents, mother and fathers who bury their children as a result on this but have we ever taken draconian measures on this?

What is so special about Covid that we take this action on this cause of death when we could do so much more for other things that kill people too.

You can choose to drink alcohol. If you drink excess amounts alcohol it will only damage your body and nobody else. If individuals (especially young people) refuse to follow lockdown rules, were masks and ignore all medical advice they can pick up covid and pass it on to an infinite amount of individuals and cause an infinite amount of deaths for innocent people.

Why should families have to bury other family members due to someone else's selfishness and disregard for human life?

But why should you have a choice to drink alcohol?

Alcoholics clog up the health system, they take up hospital beds, they take up state resources that could be going to more worthwhile causes, they contribute to violent disorders late at night.

So why do we accept alcohol and its many damaging impacts on society, the same with smoking, the same with fast food, the same with cars on the roads?

We take half measures on all these things but go draconian on Covid.

You could ask why do people have to choose to bury their loved ones because a selfish man hopped in behind a wheel after drinking a shitload of alcohol. It's very, very easy for me to show up your hypocrisies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2021, 03:36:49 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 19, 2021, 02:51:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2021, 02:42:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 19, 2021, 02:02:02 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 19, 2021, 01:37:03 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 19, 2021, 01:26:31 PM
if the government put a lockdown over xmas and people adhered to it, you would be on here saying their prediction were wrong and we should have opened up..

i am not sure most people are adhering to the rules and my in laws are case in point. recent close contacts, the person who has covid didnt isolation or stay home from work when told too but did visit the in laws 3 times before testing positive for covid. He told them he was a close contact on the 1st occasion but they still let him into the house after that.

his wife has gone food shopping with the kids since her husband tested positive. An in law went to the local shop yesterday instead of isolating as she got a negative anti body test, didnt have pcr test as no symtoms as yet, doesnt think she done anything wrong.... i imagine they arent the only people acting like this... i read of people stopping for coffee on the way to tests recently too

It's so easy to see who has and who hasn't been abiding by the restrictions. The amount of outbreaks in families is wild. You can see a mile away that they're contributing to their own little pandemic.

In relation to a few other points, It's fair to say the DUP have been absolutely terrible on this including sending MPs to London to vote against the recent ENGLISH restrictions. It would be laughable if it wasn't so serious and I would have a huge bout of schadenfreude if one of them was to test positive and fall ill. But it is wrong to exonerate others. The health service in NI is a complete mess. It's so badly run that if those people were in charge of private companies they'd be sacked or the business would be bankrupt. This is all on top of years of nonsense by both SF and the DUP. SF walking out on the executive for ILA which I still haven't seen. SF also showed complete disregard for the regulations in the summer and no matter what they say it knocked public confidence and strained relations in the executive when what was required was cohesion and unity.

Trailer I used to disagree with pretty much everything you said but now I find myself agreeing lol. I would fully agree with this. The DUP are not 100% to blame but they should take a lot of flak. Sammy Wilson is a real life Angelo. Jim Shannon is clearly a basket case. They just don't help themselves. The SF funeral thing had a big impact too. At least they have stopped now. The DUP still traveling to London is typical of them You would be shocked if it wasn't them.

The stormont executive is actually beyond dysfunctional now. It is actually almost of negative value. The DUP would actually cost lives just to spite Dublin I think. They are beyond ridiculous now.

So for a lot of people there has been no lockdown and they haven't adhered to the rules and the rule enforcers have not really clamped down on the ones breaking lockdown because there is no real direction from either governments.

So how can we view the lockdowns as being a failure if there is a lot of twats walking around not giving a fcuk and saying "I'm alright jack cause I'm under 40 and won't die from this"..

The first lockdown brought about a massive drop in cases to the point of zero, and no deaths because people rowed in behind the advice, then we had the covid deniers and social media telling everyone that it was ok to head out and do what you want as the chances of catching is slim and no illness.

There are so many at fault, and no doubt if I assess myself I could have done better, but due to personal family reasons, I was the main career for dad during his appointments I was in a difficult position.

Big transmissions in hospitals: How did that happen? did someone catch Covid from someone else and brought it into hospital? Or did it just manifest in the hospital?

Growth of the virus in the hospitals and the nursing homes at the start was due to no PPE or poor PPE, also poor sanitizing standards in these areas. Not using the nightinggale hospitals was wrong also regardless of the numbers no covid cases should have entered any hospital bar the the Nightinggale ones.

But for some reason, its still happening in hospitals, why?

Opening up will only make the numbers bigger again, as its the same people who'll transmit this on, those who don't follow the rules, because it doesn't apply to their demographic, again, I'm alright f**k them.

I heard some background noise there ;D

The nightingale hospitals IMO were more a PR thing. You can see that the numbers of ICU beds jump up and down so the capacity can be increased / reduced.

I think a large majority of people could have done better but I do think the government up here have been an utter failure on it too.

Opening up is a massive quandry now especially with schools. I suspect we're in this until March at least.(I suspect north and south).

There were 50 on ventilators the other day. It sounds pretty much like you'e 50:50 at best when you're on those. Sadly there will be those kind of numbers for this week anyway I imagine.

I've turned the background noise off, its easier than reading through a whole lot of shite!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:39:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:27:01 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:23:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:15:48 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 19, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:59:12 PM
The education of the children, the physical and mental wellbeing of the island, the economy, employment, vulnerable groupings who need support services have all been cast aside, sacrificed - for what end I ask?
I thought it was pretty fundamental - the hospitals will not cope if we pretend covid doesn't exist and let things continue as normal. They can barely cope as it is and it's almost a year since the outbreak. I support a return to normality as soon as possible but covid deniers really need to catch themselves on

I'm not a Covid denier. I think Lockdowns cause far more harm than good.

Every winter hospitals are under pressure with seasonal flu, every winter we are happy to enjoy our freedoms and live our lives with deaths spiking and flu killing off the elderly and vulnerable so I ask why did we start caring about Covid.

We have 4k deaths from cancer every year - we know the harm the likes of fast food, smoking and alcohol have with cancer, heart disease and other health problems. Are we serious about fighting cancer or heart disease or do we just not care as much as we do about Covid? If we are then why do we only take half measures? We all know young people who died in road traffic accidents, mother and fathers who bury their children as a result on this but have we ever taken draconian measures on this?

What is so special about Covid that we take this action on this cause of death when we could do so much more for other things that kill people too.

You can choose to drink alcohol. If you drink excess amounts alcohol it will only damage your body and nobody else. If individuals (especially young people) refuse to follow lockdown rules, were masks and ignore all medical advice they can pick up covid and pass it on to an infinite amount of individuals and cause an infinite amount of deaths for innocent people.

Why should families have to bury other family members due to someone else's selfishness and disregard for human life?

But why should you have a choice to drink alcohol?

Alcoholics clog up the health system, they take up hospital beds, they take up state resources that could be going to more worthwhile causes, they contribute to violent disorders late at night.

So why do we accept alcohol and its many damaging impacts on society, the same with smoking, the same with fast food, the same with cars on the roads?

We take half measures on all these things but go draconian on Covid.

You could ask why do people have to choose to bury their loved ones because a selfish man hopped in behind a wheel after drinking a shitload of alcohol. It's very, very easy for me to show up your hypocrisies.

Do alcoholics clog up the health system? How many alcoholics are in hospital beds in NI right now?Please provide the numbers to back up this claim.

Could you also please use up to date facts. You keep claiming 3 deaths out of 46k cases of covid, but case numbers are up to 96k now so you're just pedaling misinformation
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on January 19, 2021, 04:03:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:27:01 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:23:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:15:48 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 19, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:59:12 PM
The education of the children, the physical and mental wellbeing of the island, the economy, employment, vulnerable groupings who need support services have all been cast aside, sacrificed - for what end I ask?
I thought it was pretty fundamental - the hospitals will not cope if we pretend covid doesn't exist and let things continue as normal. They can barely cope as it is and it's almost a year since the outbreak. I support a return to normality as soon as possible but covid deniers really need to catch themselves on

I'm not a Covid denier. I think Lockdowns cause far more harm than good.

Every winter hospitals are under pressure with seasonal flu, every winter we are happy to enjoy our freedoms and live our lives with deaths spiking and flu killing off the elderly and vulnerable so I ask why did we start caring about Covid.

We have 4k deaths from cancer every year - we know the harm the likes of fast food, smoking and alcohol have with cancer, heart disease and other health problems. Are we serious about fighting cancer or heart disease or do we just not care as much as we do about Covid? If we are then why do we only take half measures? We all know young people who died in road traffic accidents, mother and fathers who bury their children as a result on this but have we ever taken draconian measures on this?

What is so special about Covid that we take this action on this cause of death when we could do so much more for other things that kill people too.

You can choose to drink alcohol. If you drink excess amounts alcohol it will only damage your body and nobody else. If individuals (especially young people) refuse to follow lockdown rules, were masks and ignore all medical advice they can pick up covid and pass it on to an infinite amount of individuals and cause an infinite amount of deaths for innocent people.

Why should families have to bury other family members due to someone else's selfishness and disregard for human life?

But why should you have a choice to drink alcohol?

Alcoholics clog up the health system, they take up hospital beds, they take up state resources that could be going to more worthwhile causes, they contribute to violent disorders late at night.

So why do we accept alcohol and its many damaging impacts on society, the same with smoking, the same with fast food, the same with cars on the roads?

We take half measures on all these things but go draconian on Covid.

You could ask why do people have to choose to bury their loved ones because a selfish man hopped in behind a wheel after drinking a shitload of alcohol. It's very, very easy for me to show up your hypocrisies.

It isn't a hard concept for anyone to understand. While all these things are problems which undoubtedly place extra resource on the health service none of them on there own or even combined are pushing the health service over the brink to where it is today. Hospitals are under a different league of pressure to the normal winter season. You can dress it up in whatever way suits your narrative but the simple fact is we have never had anything on this scale before.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 04:15:57 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:39:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:27:01 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:23:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:15:48 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 19, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:59:12 PM
The education of the children, the physical and mental wellbeing of the island, the economy, employment, vulnerable groupings who need support services have all been cast aside, sacrificed - for what end I ask?
I thought it was pretty fundamental - the hospitals will not cope if we pretend covid doesn't exist and let things continue as normal. They can barely cope as it is and it's almost a year since the outbreak. I support a return to normality as soon as possible but covid deniers really need to catch themselves on

I'm not a Covid denier. I think Lockdowns cause far more harm than good.

Every winter hospitals are under pressure with seasonal flu, every winter we are happy to enjoy our freedoms and live our lives with deaths spiking and flu killing off the elderly and vulnerable so I ask why did we start caring about Covid.

We have 4k deaths from cancer every year - we know the harm the likes of fast food, smoking and alcohol have with cancer, heart disease and other health problems. Are we serious about fighting cancer or heart disease or do we just not care as much as we do about Covid? If we are then why do we only take half measures? We all know young people who died in road traffic accidents, mother and fathers who bury their children as a result on this but have we ever taken draconian measures on this?

What is so special about Covid that we take this action on this cause of death when we could do so much more for other things that kill people too.

You can choose to drink alcohol. If you drink excess amounts alcohol it will only damage your body and nobody else. If individuals (especially young people) refuse to follow lockdown rules, were masks and ignore all medical advice they can pick up covid and pass it on to an infinite amount of individuals and cause an infinite amount of deaths for innocent people.

Why should families have to bury other family members due to someone else's selfishness and disregard for human life?

But why should you have a choice to drink alcohol?

Alcoholics clog up the health system, they take up hospital beds, they take up state resources that could be going to more worthwhile causes, they contribute to violent disorders late at night.

So why do we accept alcohol and its many damaging impacts on society, the same with smoking, the same with fast food, the same with cars on the roads?

We take half measures on all these things but go draconian on Covid.

You could ask why do people have to choose to bury their loved ones because a selfish man hopped in behind a wheel after drinking a shitload of alcohol. It's very, very easy for me to show up your hypocrisies.

Do alcoholics clog up the health system? How many alcoholics are in hospital beds in NI right now?Please provide the numbers to back up this claim.

Could you also please use up to date facts. You keep claiming 3 deaths out of 46k cases of covid, but case numbers are up to 96k now so you're just pedaling misinformation

Generally there are 600-750 hospital admissions per every 100k in the north every year. So you're probably looking 13-14k alcohol related admissions to hospital every year.

Report here: http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/globalassets/documents/raise/publications/2017-2022/2020/communities/6720.pdf

In the UK they reckon alcohol costs £3.5bn to treat in the health service every year and it's accepted.

In the 06, we have generally around 3-400 alcohol related deaths on an annual basis and yet again we accept that.

We accept all the severe negative aspects alcohol brings to society, we accept the violence, the disorder, the drain on the health system, the cost of treating it. It's acceptable.

Why do we accept that?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 04:17:02 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on January 19, 2021, 04:03:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:27:01 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:23:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:15:48 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 19, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:59:12 PM
The education of the children, the physical and mental wellbeing of the island, the economy, employment, vulnerable groupings who need support services have all been cast aside, sacrificed - for what end I ask?
I thought it was pretty fundamental - the hospitals will not cope if we pretend covid doesn't exist and let things continue as normal. They can barely cope as it is and it's almost a year since the outbreak. I support a return to normality as soon as possible but covid deniers really need to catch themselves on

I'm not a Covid denier. I think Lockdowns cause far more harm than good.

Every winter hospitals are under pressure with seasonal flu, every winter we are happy to enjoy our freedoms and live our lives with deaths spiking and flu killing off the elderly and vulnerable so I ask why did we start caring about Covid.

We have 4k deaths from cancer every year - we know the harm the likes of fast food, smoking and alcohol have with cancer, heart disease and other health problems. Are we serious about fighting cancer or heart disease or do we just not care as much as we do about Covid? If we are then why do we only take half measures? We all know young people who died in road traffic accidents, mother and fathers who bury their children as a result on this but have we ever taken draconian measures on this?

What is so special about Covid that we take this action on this cause of death when we could do so much more for other things that kill people too.

You can choose to drink alcohol. If you drink excess amounts alcohol it will only damage your body and nobody else. If individuals (especially young people) refuse to follow lockdown rules, were masks and ignore all medical advice they can pick up covid and pass it on to an infinite amount of individuals and cause an infinite amount of deaths for innocent people.

Why should families have to bury other family members due to someone else's selfishness and disregard for human life?

But why should you have a choice to drink alcohol?

Alcoholics clog up the health system, they take up hospital beds, they take up state resources that could be going to more worthwhile causes, they contribute to violent disorders late at night.

So why do we accept alcohol and its many damaging impacts on society, the same with smoking, the same with fast food, the same with cars on the roads?

We take half measures on all these things but go draconian on Covid.

You could ask why do people have to choose to bury their loved ones because a selfish man hopped in behind a wheel after drinking a shitload of alcohol. It's very, very easy for me to show up your hypocrisies.

It isn't a hard concept for anyone to understand. While all these things are problems which undoubtedly place extra resource on the health service none of them on there own or even combined are pushing the health service over the brink to where it is today. Hospitals are under a different league of pressure to the normal winter season. You can dress it up in whatever way suits your narrative but the simple fact is we have never had anything on this scale before.

50k excess deaths during the 17/18 winter flu season that nobody batted an eyelid about?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 04:19:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 04:15:57 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:39:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:27:01 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:23:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:15:48 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 19, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:59:12 PM
The education of the children, the physical and mental wellbeing of the island, the economy, employment, vulnerable groupings who need support services have all been cast aside, sacrificed - for what end I ask?
I thought it was pretty fundamental - the hospitals will not cope if we pretend covid doesn't exist and let things continue as normal. They can barely cope as it is and it's almost a year since the outbreak. I support a return to normality as soon as possible but covid deniers really need to catch themselves on

I'm not a Covid denier. I think Lockdowns cause far more harm than good.

Every winter hospitals are under pressure with seasonal flu, every winter we are happy to enjoy our freedoms and live our lives with deaths spiking and flu killing off the elderly and vulnerable so I ask why did we start caring about Covid.

We have 4k deaths from cancer every year - we know the harm the likes of fast food, smoking and alcohol have with cancer, heart disease and other health problems. Are we serious about fighting cancer or heart disease or do we just not care as much as we do about Covid? If we are then why do we only take half measures? We all know young people who died in road traffic accidents, mother and fathers who bury their children as a result on this but have we ever taken draconian measures on this?

What is so special about Covid that we take this action on this cause of death when we could do so much more for other things that kill people too.

You can choose to drink alcohol. If you drink excess amounts alcohol it will only damage your body and nobody else. If individuals (especially young people) refuse to follow lockdown rules, were masks and ignore all medical advice they can pick up covid and pass it on to an infinite amount of individuals and cause an infinite amount of deaths for innocent people.

Why should families have to bury other family members due to someone else's selfishness and disregard for human life?

But why should you have a choice to drink alcohol?

Alcoholics clog up the health system, they take up hospital beds, they take up state resources that could be going to more worthwhile causes, they contribute to violent disorders late at night.

So why do we accept alcohol and its many damaging impacts on society, the same with smoking, the same with fast food, the same with cars on the roads?

We take half measures on all these things but go draconian on Covid.

You could ask why do people have to choose to bury their loved ones because a selfish man hopped in behind a wheel after drinking a shitload of alcohol. It's very, very easy for me to show up your hypocrisies.

Do alcoholics clog up the health system? How many alcoholics are in hospital beds in NI right now?Please provide the numbers to back up this claim.

Could you also please use up to date facts. You keep claiming 3 deaths out of 46k cases of covid, but case numbers are up to 96k now so you're just pedaling misinformation

Generally there are 600-750 hospital admissions per every 100k in the north every year. So you're probably looking 13-14k alcohol related admissions to hospital every year.

Report here: http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/globalassets/documents/raise/publications/2017-2022/2020/communities/6720.pdf

In the UK they reckon alcohol costs £3.5bn to treat in the health service every year and it's accepted.

In the 06, we have generally around 3-400 alcohol related deaths on an annual basis and yet again we accept that.

We accept all the severe negative aspects alcohol brings to society, we accept the violence, the disorder, the drain on the health system, the cost of treating it. It's acceptable.

Why do we accept that?

So you're guesssing. That's fine. If you don't know, you don't know. You can just admit it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 19, 2021, 04:29:20 PM
Angelo u make some decent points but we are in tough times at present
The next 2 weeks will be the toughest I feel then things will improve
Signs already that they are improving dramatically in both the north and south cal
Cases dropping very sharply
Percentages of 80+ being admitted to hospital has also dropped in the north
Would the vaccine have a small say in that already or not??
Over 150000 vaccines into the arms already.
Things are bad but we have some light at the end of the tunnel.
Whenever that may be who knows
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 05:48:26 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 04:19:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 04:15:57 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:39:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:27:01 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:23:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:15:48 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 19, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:59:12 PM
The education of the children, the physical and mental wellbeing of the island, the economy, employment, vulnerable groupings who need support services have all been cast aside, sacrificed - for what end I ask?
I thought it was pretty fundamental - the hospitals will not cope if we pretend covid doesn't exist and let things continue as normal. They can barely cope as it is and it's almost a year since the outbreak. I support a return to normality as soon as possible but covid deniers really need to catch themselves on

I'm not a Covid denier. I think Lockdowns cause far more harm than good.

Every winter hospitals are under pressure with seasonal flu, every winter we are happy to enjoy our freedoms and live our lives with deaths spiking and flu killing off the elderly and vulnerable so I ask why did we start caring about Covid.

We have 4k deaths from cancer every year - we know the harm the likes of fast food, smoking and alcohol have with cancer, heart disease and other health problems. Are we serious about fighting cancer or heart disease or do we just not care as much as we do about Covid? If we are then why do we only take half measures? We all know young people who died in road traffic accidents, mother and fathers who bury their children as a result on this but have we ever taken draconian measures on this?

What is so special about Covid that we take this action on this cause of death when we could do so much more for other things that kill people too.

You can choose to drink alcohol. If you drink excess amounts alcohol it will only damage your body and nobody else. If individuals (especially young people) refuse to follow lockdown rules, were masks and ignore all medical advice they can pick up covid and pass it on to an infinite amount of individuals and cause an infinite amount of deaths for innocent people.

Why should families have to bury other family members due to someone else's selfishness and disregard for human life?

But why should you have a choice to drink alcohol?

Alcoholics clog up the health system, they take up hospital beds, they take up state resources that could be going to more worthwhile causes, they contribute to violent disorders late at night.

So why do we accept alcohol and its many damaging impacts on society, the same with smoking, the same with fast food, the same with cars on the roads?

We take half measures on all these things but go draconian on Covid.

You could ask why do people have to choose to bury their loved ones because a selfish man hopped in behind a wheel after drinking a shitload of alcohol. It's very, very easy for me to show up your hypocrisies.

Do alcoholics clog up the health system? How many alcoholics are in hospital beds in NI right now?Please provide the numbers to back up this claim.

Could you also please use up to date facts. You keep claiming 3 deaths out of 46k cases of covid, but case numbers are up to 96k now so you're just pedaling misinformation

Generally there are 600-750 hospital admissions per every 100k in the north every year. So you're probably looking 13-14k alcohol related admissions to hospital every year.

Report here: http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/globalassets/documents/raise/publications/2017-2022/2020/communities/6720.pdf

In the UK they reckon alcohol costs £3.5bn to treat in the health service every year and it's accepted.

In the 06, we have generally around 3-400 alcohol related deaths on an annual basis and yet again we accept that.

We accept all the severe negative aspects alcohol brings to society, we accept the violence, the disorder, the drain on the health system, the cost of treating it. It's acceptable.

Why do we accept that?

So you're guesssing. That's fine. If you don't know, you don't know. You can just admit it

I have given you verified facts on alcohol. As you don't like them you have chosen to ignore them as they has disproven your narrative.

So why not ban alcohol to save lives? Maybe your moral pontificating is just mere optics and very hollow.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 19, 2021, 06:07:12 PM
Sadly a record daily high in reported deaths (93) in the ROI today.  In better news the daily reported cases continues to fall as does the daily positive swab count.

Government meeting next Tuesday where level 5 restrictions are expected to be extended.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on January 19, 2021, 06:20:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:15:48 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 19, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:59:12 PM
The education of the children, the physical and mental wellbeing of the island, the economy, employment, vulnerable groupings who need support services have all been cast aside, sacrificed - for what end I ask?
I thought it was pretty fundamental - the hospitals will not cope if we pretend covid doesn't exist and let things continue as normal. They can barely cope as it is and it's almost a year since the outbreak. I support a return to normality as soon as possible but covid deniers really need to catch themselves on

I'm not a Covid denier. I think Lockdowns cause far more harm than good.

Every winter hospitals are under pressure with seasonal flu, every winter we are happy to enjoy our freedoms and live our lives with deaths spiking and flu killing off the elderly and vulnerable so I ask why did we start caring about Covid.
I don't know about you but I haven't heard of people dying from the flu and then their spouse dying from it a few weeks later. I have however heard of a few cases of people dying from covid and then their wife/husband/brother/parent etc also dying from it. In fact I don't think I know anyone who's died from the flu but I know people who have died from covid.

I think it's fair to say that Covid is much worse than the flu. 1/8 people in England is said to have had it which to me seems much more widespread than flu.  Virtually every civilised country in the world is taking measures to combat it. What makes you think they're all wrong and you're right?

QuoteWe have 4k deaths from cancer every year - we know the harm the likes of fast food, smoking and alcohol have with cancer, heart disease and other health problems. Are we serious about fighting cancer or heart disease or do we just not care as much as we do about Covid? If we are then why do we only take half measures? We all know young people who died in road traffic accidents, mother and fathers who bury their children as a result on this but have we ever taken draconian measures on this?
Generally speaking this is irrelevant. I'd be fairly certain however government policy in this country (and most developed countries) over the past 20 years has been geared towards tackling and eradicating childhood obesity, anti-smoking, promoting healthy living, drink/drunk driving, speeding etc. (I was looking at the figures for road deaths and Ireland has had a dramatic drop over the past 20 years or so). Why you are comparing them to a virus though baffles me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 06:59:05 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 19, 2021, 06:20:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:15:48 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 19, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:59:12 PM
The education of the children, the physical and mental wellbeing of the island, the economy, employment, vulnerable groupings who need support services have all been cast aside, sacrificed - for what end I ask?
I thought it was pretty fundamental - the hospitals will not cope if we pretend covid doesn't exist and let things continue as normal. They can barely cope as it is and it's almost a year since the outbreak. I support a return to normality as soon as possible but covid deniers really need to catch themselves on

I'm not a Covid denier. I think Lockdowns cause far more harm than good.

Every winter hospitals are under pressure with seasonal flu, every winter we are happy to enjoy our freedoms and live our lives with deaths spiking and flu killing off the elderly and vulnerable so I ask why did we start caring about Covid.
I don't know about you but I haven't heard of people dying from the flu and then their spouse dying from it a few weeks later. I have however heard of a few cases of people dying from covid and then their wife/husband/brother/parent etc also dying from it. In fact I don't think I know anyone who's died from the flu but I know people who have died from covid.

I think it's fair to say that Covid is much worse than the flu. 1/8 people in England is said to have had it which to me seems much more widespread than flu.  Virtually every civilised country in the world is taking measures to combat it. What makes you think they're all wrong and you're right?

QuoteWe have 4k deaths from cancer every year - we know the harm the likes of fast food, smoking and alcohol have with cancer, heart disease and other health problems. Are we serious about fighting cancer or heart disease or do we just not care as much as we do about Covid? If we are then why do we only take half measures? We all know young people who died in road traffic accidents, mother and fathers who bury their children as a result on this but have we ever taken draconian measures on this?
Generally speaking this is irrelevant. I'd be fairly certain however government policy in this country (and most developed countries) over the past 20 years has been geared towards tackling and eradicating childhood obesity, anti-smoking, promoting healthy living, drink/drunk driving, speeding etc. (I was looking at the figures for road deaths and Ireland has had a dramatic drop over the past 20 years or so). Why you are comparing them to a virus though baffles me.

I'm comparing them as they kill annually, cancer kills more, but stuff like road deaths, alcohol related deaths happen yearly. Road deaths in particular kill young people with their whole lives ahead of them. What's our response to that? Half measures like wear your seatbelt, obey the speed limit, don't drink and drive. We kind of throw our hat at road deaths really.

Whereas with Covid we haven't, we shut down society as we know it.

If we are serious about saving lives then we shouldn't be taking half measures. To me it seems we are happy to accept death as long as it's not from Covid.

As for flu, I've heard of it happening in nursing homes before. Clearly Covid is likely to be more risk to the elderly and vulnerable at the minute and that's probably solely due to it being a novel virus and we are learning how to treat it along with flu having an established vaccine.

For the u40 generation, I would not say that Covid is anymore dangerous than flu. We have 3 deaths in the u40 grouping from 46k cases in around 9 months.

I'd hazard a guess that flu can be as fatal in the u40 groupings.

The hospitals and nursing homes have consistently failed vulnerable people throughout this whole thing and are the major source of deaths.

Why is it not regularly disclosed how much the inpatient transmission rate is? Why are they trying to hide these failings from us?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 08:00:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 05:48:26 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 04:19:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 04:15:57 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:39:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:27:01 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:23:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:15:48 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 19, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:59:12 PM
The education of the children, the physical and mental wellbeing of the island, the economy, employment, vulnerable groupings who need support services have all been cast aside, sacrificed - for what end I ask?
I thought it was pretty fundamental - the hospitals will not cope if we pretend covid doesn't exist and let things continue as normal. They can barely cope as it is and it's almost a year since the outbreak. I support a return to normality as soon as possible but covid deniers really need to catch themselves on

I'm not a Covid denier. I think Lockdowns cause far more harm than good.

Every winter hospitals are under pressure with seasonal flu, every winter we are happy to enjoy our freedoms and live our lives with deaths spiking and flu killing off the elderly and vulnerable so I ask why did we start caring about Covid.

We have 4k deaths from cancer every year - we know the harm the likes of fast food, smoking and alcohol have with cancer, heart disease and other health problems. Are we serious about fighting cancer or heart disease or do we just not care as much as we do about Covid? If we are then why do we only take half measures? We all know young people who died in road traffic accidents, mother and fathers who bury their children as a result on this but have we ever taken draconian measures on this?

What is so special about Covid that we take this action on this cause of death when we could do so much more for other things that kill people too.

You can choose to drink alcohol. If you drink excess amounts alcohol it will only damage your body and nobody else. If individuals (especially young people) refuse to follow lockdown rules, were masks and ignore all medical advice they can pick up covid and pass it on to an infinite amount of individuals and cause an infinite amount of deaths for innocent people.

Why should families have to bury other family members due to someone else's selfishness and disregard for human life?

But why should you have a choice to drink alcohol?

Alcoholics clog up the health system, they take up hospital beds, they take up state resources that could be going to more worthwhile causes, they contribute to violent disorders late at night.

So why do we accept alcohol and its many damaging impacts on society, the same with smoking, the same with fast food, the same with cars on the roads?

We take half measures on all these things but go draconian on Covid.

You could ask why do people have to choose to bury their loved ones because a selfish man hopped in behind a wheel after drinking a shitload of alcohol. It's very, very easy for me to show up your hypocrisies.

Do alcoholics clog up the health system? How many alcoholics are in hospital beds in NI right now?Please provide the numbers to back up this claim.

Could you also please use up to date facts. You keep claiming 3 deaths out of 46k cases of covid, but case numbers are up to 96k now so you're just pedaling misinformation

Generally there are 600-750 hospital admissions per every 100k in the north every year. So you're probably looking 13-14k alcohol related admissions to hospital every year.

Report here: http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/globalassets/documents/raise/publications/2017-2022/2020/communities/6720.pdf

In the UK they reckon alcohol costs £3.5bn to treat in the health service every year and it's accepted.

In the 06, we have generally around 3-400 alcohol related deaths on an annual basis and yet again we accept that.

We accept all the severe negative aspects alcohol brings to society, we accept the violence, the disorder, the drain on the health system, the cost of treating it. It's acceptable.

Why do we accept that?

So you're guesssing. That's fine. If you don't know, you don't know. You can just admit it

I have given you verified facts on alcohol. As you don't like them you have chosen to ignore them as they has disproven your narrative.

So why not ban alcohol to save lives? Maybe your moral pontificating is just mere optics and very hollow.

Please stop with the misleading and misinformation. It's hypocritical of you to criticize others for it when you are guilty of it as well. You guess, reckon and generally think alot there, but I don't see any actual facts or current numbers of people in hospital at the moment being treated for alcohol related illnesses.

Its disappointing, but not surprising. Also after looking up the actual statistics for alcohol related patients in hospital (we both know you really don't care about that)  you should look up the number of people under 40 who have now died of Covid. It's not 4 anymore unfortunately.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 19, 2021, 08:30:02 PM
Close relation works in an ICU ward in Belfast.

For the first time in her career, they have had to start prioritising which patients would receive care.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2021, 08:32:39 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2021, 08:30:02 PM
Close relation works in an ICU ward in Belfast.

For the first time in her career, they have had to start prioritising which patients would receive care.

What a decision for these people to take

Crazy, mother in law hoping for surgery on Thursday, after surgery (open heart surgery) I'm led to believe she'll need to be in ICU for a period after.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 19, 2021, 08:51:36 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 19, 2021, 08:30:02 PM
Close relation works in an ICU ward in Belfast.

For the first time in her career, they have had to start prioritising which patients would receive care.

Most knew this would be the case unfortunately... Absolutely awful for all involved.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 10:08:15 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 08:00:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 05:48:26 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 04:19:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 04:15:57 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:39:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:27:01 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:23:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:15:48 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 19, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:59:12 PM
The education of the children, the physical and mental wellbeing of the island, the economy, employment, vulnerable groupings who need support services have all been cast aside, sacrificed - for what end I ask?
I thought it was pretty fundamental - the hospitals will not cope if we pretend covid doesn't exist and let things continue as normal. They can barely cope as it is and it's almost a year since the outbreak. I support a return to normality as soon as possible but covid deniers really need to catch themselves on

I'm not a Covid denier. I think Lockdowns cause far more harm than good.

Every winter hospitals are under pressure with seasonal flu, every winter we are happy to enjoy our freedoms and live our lives with deaths spiking and flu killing off the elderly and vulnerable so I ask why did we start caring about Covid.

We have 4k deaths from cancer every year - we know the harm the likes of fast food, smoking and alcohol have with cancer, heart disease and other health problems. Are we serious about fighting cancer or heart disease or do we just not care as much as we do about Covid? If we are then why do we only take half measures? We all know young people who died in road traffic accidents, mother and fathers who bury their children as a result on this but have we ever taken draconian measures on this?

What is so special about Covid that we take this action on this cause of death when we could do so much more for other things that kill people too.

You can choose to drink alcohol. If you drink excess amounts alcohol it will only damage your body and nobody else. If individuals (especially young people) refuse to follow lockdown rules, were masks and ignore all medical advice they can pick up covid and pass it on to an infinite amount of individuals and cause an infinite amount of deaths for innocent people.

Why should families have to bury other family members due to someone else's selfishness and disregard for human life?

But why should you have a choice to drink alcohol?

Alcoholics clog up the health system, they take up hospital beds, they take up state resources that could be going to more worthwhile causes, they contribute to violent disorders late at night.

So why do we accept alcohol and its many damaging impacts on society, the same with smoking, the same with fast food, the same with cars on the roads?

We take half measures on all these things but go draconian on Covid.

You could ask why do people have to choose to bury their loved ones because a selfish man hopped in behind a wheel after drinking a shitload of alcohol. It's very, very easy for me to show up your hypocrisies.

Do alcoholics clog up the health system? How many alcoholics are in hospital beds in NI right now?Please provide the numbers to back up this claim.

Could you also please use up to date facts. You keep claiming 3 deaths out of 46k cases of covid, but case numbers are up to 96k now so you're just pedaling misinformation

Generally there are 600-750 hospital admissions per every 100k in the north every year. So you're probably looking 13-14k alcohol related admissions to hospital every year.

Report here: http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/globalassets/documents/raise/publications/2017-2022/2020/communities/6720.pdf

In the UK they reckon alcohol costs £3.5bn to treat in the health service every year and it's accepted.

In the 06, we have generally around 3-400 alcohol related deaths on an annual basis and yet again we accept that.

We accept all the severe negative aspects alcohol brings to society, we accept the violence, the disorder, the drain on the health system, the cost of treating it. It's acceptable.

Why do we accept that?

So you're guesssing. That's fine. If you don't know, you don't know. You can just admit it

I have given you verified facts on alcohol. As you don't like them you have chosen to ignore them as they has disproven your narrative.

So why not ban alcohol to save lives? Maybe your moral pontificating is just mere optics and very hollow.

Please stop with the misleading and misinformation. It's hypocritical of you to criticize others for it when you are guilty of it as well. You guess, reckon and generally think alot there, but I don't see any actual facts or current numbers of people in hospital at the moment being treated for alcohol related illnesses.

Its disappointing, but not surprising. Also after looking up the actual statistics for alcohol related patients in hospital (we both know you really don't care about that)  you should look up the number of people under 40 who have now died of Covid. It's not 4 anymore unfortunately.

That's pure projection.

All the figures I have stated above are verified.

As of last week we had 46k positive cases in the O6 in the u40 age group, 3 deaths. I've already posted the links to this?

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/optimized/3X/7/8/78a37ab0213d18006dda90cca0a12cffa182b4de_2_1035x538.png)

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/optimized/3X/2/f/2f687b8fdb4f4cbf9041bf07ecf0124b4a6d15cf_2_1035x555.png)

A 0.008% fatality rate in the 0-19 age bracket and a 0.006% fatality rate in the 20-39 age bracket. This is established and verified by the Department of Health in the O6. So why are you disputing verified data from the department of health? Why are you slurring established data from the Department of Health as misinformation? I doubt you are man enough to address why it is in fact you who is trying to distort the truth and deny established facts.

On the 14th January, we had 3 deaths in the u40 age bracket. If you have evidence to counter than then put it forward. Otherwise we can chalk you down for more smoke and mirrors.

You said it was fine that we don't do anything on alcohol. I pointed out to you more facts, the fact that it the UK it costs the health service about £3.5bn a year to treat alcohol related issues, that fact that there is on average 13-14k alcohol related admissions in the O6 every year, the fact that we have around 300-400 alcohol related deaths every year.

And do you want to know about alcohol, a blight on society, a curse that ruins families, ruins lives, leads to violence, disorder and long running physical and mental health issues? Absolutely nothing - why because you are a callous, ponitificating and very insincere virtue signaler., a man who is overflowing with contradiction and sanctimony. Loads of verified facts there, linked to sources.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 19, 2021, 10:11:59 PM
BBC1 news should be enough evidence for anyone to realise how serious things are. God love them staff and all NHS staff. To hear absolute arseholes mouthing about lockdowns and not taking vaccines, it just shows the worst part of human nature. Listening to that doctor call that mans wife and tell her that he might not survive. It's heart-breaking.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 10:29:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 19, 2021, 10:11:59 PM
BBC1 news should be enough evidence for anyone to realise how serious things are. God love them staff and all NHS staff. To hear absolute arseholes mouthing about lockdowns and not taking vaccines, it just shows the worst part of human nature. Listening to that doctor call that mans wife and tell her that he might not survive. It's heart-breaking.

A pity you found your sanctimony last year and didn't speak up for the utterly needless deaths we have every single day of our lives.

Absolute arsehole indeed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 10:46:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 10:08:15 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 08:00:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 05:48:26 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 04:19:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 04:15:57 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:39:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:27:01 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:23:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:15:48 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 19, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:59:12 PM
The education of the children, the physical and mental wellbeing of the island, the economy, employment, vulnerable groupings who need support services have all been cast aside, sacrificed - for what end I ask?
I thought it was pretty fundamental - the hospitals will not cope if we pretend covid doesn't exist and let things continue as normal. They can barely cope as it is and it's almost a year since the outbreak. I support a return to normality as soon as possible but covid deniers really need to catch themselves on

I'm not a Covid denier. I think Lockdowns cause far more harm than good.

Every winter hospitals are under pressure with seasonal flu, every winter we are happy to enjoy our freedoms and live our lives with deaths spiking and flu killing off the elderly and vulnerable so I ask why did we start caring about Covid.

We have 4k deaths from cancer every year - we know the harm the likes of fast food, smoking and alcohol have with cancer, heart disease and other health problems. Are we serious about fighting cancer or heart disease or do we just not care as much as we do about Covid? If we are then why do we only take half measures? We all know young people who died in road traffic accidents, mother and fathers who bury their children as a result on this but have we ever taken draconian measures on this?

What is so special about Covid that we take this action on this cause of death when we could do so much more for other things that kill people too.

You can choose to drink alcohol. If you drink excess amounts alcohol it will only damage your body and nobody else. If individuals (especially young people) refuse to follow lockdown rules, were masks and ignore all medical advice they can pick up covid and pass it on to an infinite amount of individuals and cause an infinite amount of deaths for innocent people.

Why should families have to bury other family members due to someone else's selfishness and disregard for human life?

But why should you have a choice to drink alcohol?

Alcoholics clog up the health system, they take up hospital beds, they take up state resources that could be going to more worthwhile causes, they contribute to violent disorders late at night.

So why do we accept alcohol and its many damaging impacts on society, the same with smoking, the same with fast food, the same with cars on the roads?

We take half measures on all these things but go draconian on Covid.

You could ask why do people have to choose to bury their loved ones because a selfish man hopped in behind a wheel after drinking a shitload of alcohol. It's very, very easy for me to show up your hypocrisies.

Do alcoholics clog up the health system? How many alcoholics are in hospital beds in NI right now?Please provide the numbers to back up this claim.

Could you also please use up to date facts. You keep claiming 3 deaths out of 46k cases of covid, but case numbers are up to 96k now so you're just pedaling misinformation

Generally there are 600-750 hospital admissions per every 100k in the north every year. So you're probably looking 13-14k alcohol related admissions to hospital every year.

Report here: http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/globalassets/documents/raise/publications/2017-2022/2020/communities/6720.pdf

In the UK they reckon alcohol costs £3.5bn to treat in the health service every year and it's accepted.

In the 06, we have generally around 3-400 alcohol related deaths on an annual basis and yet again we accept that.

We accept all the severe negative aspects alcohol brings to society, we accept the violence, the disorder, the drain on the health system, the cost of treating it. It's acceptable.

Why do we accept that?

So you're guesssing. That's fine. If you don't know, you don't know. You can just admit it

I have given you verified facts on alcohol. As you don't like them you have chosen to ignore them as they has disproven your narrative.

So why not ban alcohol to save lives? Maybe your moral pontificating is just mere optics and very hollow.

Please stop with the misleading and misinformation. It's hypocritical of you to criticize others for it when you are guilty of it as well. You guess, reckon and generally think alot there, but I don't see any actual facts or current numbers of people in hospital at the moment being treated for alcohol related illnesses.

Its disappointing, but not surprising. Also after looking up the actual statistics for alcohol related patients in hospital (we both know you really don't care about that)  you should look up the number of people under 40 who have now died of Covid. It's not 4 anymore unfortunately.

That's pure projection.

All the figures I have stated above are verified.

As of last week we had 46k positive cases in the O6 in the u40 age group, 3 deaths. I've already posted the links to this?

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/optimized/3X/7/8/78a37ab0213d18006dda90cca0a12cffa182b4de_2_1035x538.png)

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/optimized/3X/2/f/2f687b8fdb4f4cbf9041bf07ecf0124b4a6d15cf_2_1035x555.png)

A 0.008% fatality rate in the 0-19 age bracket and a 0.006% fatality rate in the 20-39 age bracket. This is established and verified by the Department of Health in the O6. So why are you disputing verified data from the department of health? Why are you slurring established data from the Department of Health as misinformation? I doubt you are man enough to address why it is in fact you who is trying to distort the truth and deny established facts.

On the 14th January, we had 3 deaths in the u40 age bracket. If you have evidence to counter than then put it forward. Otherwise we can chalk you down for more smoke and mirrors.

You said it was fine that we don't do anything on alcohol. I pointed out to you more facts, the fact that it the UK it costs the health service about £3.5bn a year to treat alcohol related issues, that fact that there is on average 13-14k alcohol related admissions in the O6 every year, the fact that we have around 300-400 alcohol related deaths every year.

And do you want to know about alcohol, a blight on society, a curse that ruins families, ruins lives, leads to violence, disorder and long running physical and mental health issues? Absolutely nothing - why because you are a callous, ponitificating and very insincere virtue signaler., a man who is overflowing with contradiction and sanctimony. Loads of verified facts there, linked to sources.

Couldn't find the figures for the numbers of patients being treated for alcohol so you go off on another of your tangents. Typical hypocritical Angelo.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 19, 2021, 10:50:51 PM
(https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=540047&stc=1&d=1611089576)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 11:02:46 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 10:46:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 10:08:15 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 08:00:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 05:48:26 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 04:19:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 04:15:57 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:39:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:27:01 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 03:23:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 03:15:48 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 19, 2021, 03:07:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 19, 2021, 02:59:12 PM
The education of the children, the physical and mental wellbeing of the island, the economy, employment, vulnerable groupings who need support services have all been cast aside, sacrificed - for what end I ask?
I thought it was pretty fundamental - the hospitals will not cope if we pretend covid doesn't exist and let things continue as normal. They can barely cope as it is and it's almost a year since the outbreak. I support a return to normality as soon as possible but covid deniers really need to catch themselves on

I'm not a Covid denier. I think Lockdowns cause far more harm than good.

Every winter hospitals are under pressure with seasonal flu, every winter we are happy to enjoy our freedoms and live our lives with deaths spiking and flu killing off the elderly and vulnerable so I ask why did we start caring about Covid.

We have 4k deaths from cancer every year - we know the harm the likes of fast food, smoking and alcohol have with cancer, heart disease and other health problems. Are we serious about fighting cancer or heart disease or do we just not care as much as we do about Covid? If we are then why do we only take half measures? We all know young people who died in road traffic accidents, mother and fathers who bury their children as a result on this but have we ever taken draconian measures on this?

What is so special about Covid that we take this action on this cause of death when we could do so much more for other things that kill people too.

You can choose to drink alcohol. If you drink excess amounts alcohol it will only damage your body and nobody else. If individuals (especially young people) refuse to follow lockdown rules, were masks and ignore all medical advice they can pick up covid and pass it on to an infinite amount of individuals and cause an infinite amount of deaths for innocent people.

Why should families have to bury other family members due to someone else's selfishness and disregard for human life?

But why should you have a choice to drink alcohol?

Alcoholics clog up the health system, they take up hospital beds, they take up state resources that could be going to more worthwhile causes, they contribute to violent disorders late at night.

So why do we accept alcohol and its many damaging impacts on society, the same with smoking, the same with fast food, the same with cars on the roads?

We take half measures on all these things but go draconian on Covid.

You could ask why do people have to choose to bury their loved ones because a selfish man hopped in behind a wheel after drinking a shitload of alcohol. It's very, very easy for me to show up your hypocrisies.

Do alcoholics clog up the health system? How many alcoholics are in hospital beds in NI right now?Please provide the numbers to back up this claim.

Could you also please use up to date facts. You keep claiming 3 deaths out of 46k cases of covid, but case numbers are up to 96k now so you're just pedaling misinformation

Generally there are 600-750 hospital admissions per every 100k in the north every year. So you're probably looking 13-14k alcohol related admissions to hospital every year.

Report here: http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/globalassets/documents/raise/publications/2017-2022/2020/communities/6720.pdf

In the UK they reckon alcohol costs £3.5bn to treat in the health service every year and it's accepted.

In the 06, we have generally around 3-400 alcohol related deaths on an annual basis and yet again we accept that.

We accept all the severe negative aspects alcohol brings to society, we accept the violence, the disorder, the drain on the health system, the cost of treating it. It's acceptable.

Why do we accept that?

So you're guesssing. That's fine. If you don't know, you don't know. You can just admit it

I have given you verified facts on alcohol. As you don't like them you have chosen to ignore them as they has disproven your narrative.

So why not ban alcohol to save lives? Maybe your moral pontificating is just mere optics and very hollow.

Please stop with the misleading and misinformation. It's hypocritical of you to criticize others for it when you are guilty of it as well. You guess, reckon and generally think alot there, but I don't see any actual facts or current numbers of people in hospital at the moment being treated for alcohol related illnesses.

Its disappointing, but not surprising. Also after looking up the actual statistics for alcohol related patients in hospital (we both know you really don't care about that)  you should look up the number of people under 40 who have now died of Covid. It's not 4 anymore unfortunately.

That's pure projection.

All the figures I have stated above are verified.

As of last week we had 46k positive cases in the O6 in the u40 age group, 3 deaths. I've already posted the links to this?

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/optimized/3X/7/8/78a37ab0213d18006dda90cca0a12cffa182b4de_2_1035x538.png)

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/optimized/3X/2/f/2f687b8fdb4f4cbf9041bf07ecf0124b4a6d15cf_2_1035x555.png)

A 0.008% fatality rate in the 0-19 age bracket and a 0.006% fatality rate in the 20-39 age bracket. This is established and verified by the Department of Health in the O6. So why are you disputing verified data from the department of health? Why are you slurring established data from the Department of Health as misinformation? I doubt you are man enough to address why it is in fact you who is trying to distort the truth and deny established facts.

On the 14th January, we had 3 deaths in the u40 age bracket. If you have evidence to counter than then put it forward. Otherwise we can chalk you down for more smoke and mirrors.

You said it was fine that we don't do anything on alcohol. I pointed out to you more facts, the fact that it the UK it costs the health service about £3.5bn a year to treat alcohol related issues, that fact that there is on average 13-14k alcohol related admissions in the O6 every year, the fact that we have around 300-400 alcohol related deaths every year.

And do you want to know about alcohol, a blight on society, a curse that ruins families, ruins lives, leads to violence, disorder and long running physical and mental health issues? Absolutely nothing - why because you are a callous, ponitificating and very insincere virtue signaler., a man who is overflowing with contradiction and sanctimony. Loads of verified facts there, linked to sources.

Couldn't find the figures for the numbers of patients being treated for alcohol do you go off on another of your tangents. Typical hypocritical Angelo.

You're a bit dim as those figures come from a report provides already to you.. it's the quote trail there so why are you continuing to dispute provided sources.

3.5bn spend by NHS in relation to alcohol incidents

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/04/staggering-cost-nhs-alcohol-abuse-report

13-14k hospital admissions every year in O6 from alcohol related incidents.

Data on alcohol admissions 14 reveals that hospital admission rates in Norrthern Ireland for alchol-related disorders rose gradually during the three- year period, 2008 - 11 (665 per 100,000), peaked in 2013-16 (728 per 100,000), before falling to 673 per 100,000 in the period 2016 – 19

Taken from report linked above. Why are you continuing to deny facts? You have the floor to show you are genuine in your virtues but all you have shown is an aversion to the the truth, faux morals and complete panic in your inability to frame an intelligent argument.

A bit like your pathetic defence of Dublin GAA, you seem to be little more than an unintelligent wum who disregards any piece of factual evidence that contradicts your unsubstantiated lies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 11:29:09 PM
So a link to a newspaper story is your source Angelo. Did you read it this time? You've made that mistake before. Imagine linking al court case a "big pharma company" as you like to call them in attempt to discredit them only to find out they actually won the case. That must have been very embarrassing for you.

So when reading the newspaper article did it give the current number of patients being treated in 2021 for alcohol related ilness? That was the original question before you went off on your tangent as you couldn't answer the question.

I admit I don't know the figure but I would expect it to be practically zero. At the moment if you watch tv shows called "The News" you'd see hospitals are in crisis as they can't handle all the Covid patients they are expected to treat.

If we follow your stats and facts then at least we can take some comfort in the fact there's no young people in hospital as Covid is in your words little or no threat to people under 40. Your claim would be confirmed when the hospitals release the age ranges of people being treated for Covid I assume?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 19, 2021, 11:50:13 PM
Nurse from a Cork Hospital on the News tonight talking about the trauma of treating young people unable to breathe because of this awful virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 20, 2021, 12:55:03 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 19, 2021, 11:50:13 PM
Nurse from a Cork Hospital on the News tonight talking about the trauma of treating young people unable to breathe because of this awful virus.

Only a few of them will die though, so no problem to some people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 09:30:39 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 11:29:09 PM
So a link to a newspaper story is your source Angelo. Did you read it this time? You've made that mistake before. Imagine linking al court case a "big pharma company" as you like to call them in attempt to discredit them only to find out they actually won the case. That must have been very embarrassing for you.

So when reading the newspaper article did it give the current number of patients being treated in 2021 for alcohol related ilness? That was the original question before you went off on your tangent as you couldn't answer the question.

I admit I don't know the figure but I would expect it to be practically zero. At the moment if you watch tv shows called "The News" you'd see hospitals are in crisis as they can't handle all the Covid patients they are expected to treat.

If we follow your stats and facts then at least we can take some comfort in the fact there's no young people in hospital as Covid is in your words little or no threat to people under 40. Your claim would be confirmed when the hospitals release the age ranges of people being treated for Covid I assume?

The NHS are. Are you illiterate or did you just not read?

but while the NHS estimates that the cost of treatment runs to £3.5bn a year,

It seems once you are presented with facts that aren't to your liking you seem to do everything in your power to deny them and dismiss them. I have given you all the data you asked for on alcohol, why it is a scourge and how we only make half hearted efforts to combat it in society and huge consequences it has.

You first asked for facts and then when the facts come forward it's the same old from you - deny, deny, deny, deflect, deflect, deflect.

The exact same rationale you have used when it comes to Dublin GAA, big pharmaceuticals and Covid. You are incapable of accepting facts because it does not mesh with your elitist, entitled, right wing view of society.

We have clarified that you couldn't five a shit about the scourge of alcohol on society and the the health service. As long as you get to go down to the off license and buy your carry out then that's alright for you.

Why are you asking me for 2021 figures? I have given you facts - if you want to disprove me then you go and get the figures. Show me I'm wrong, you spout an endless amount of nonsense but you never back it up. You can sling all the mud you wish at me but I'm backed up my points with figures and sources, you just delfect consistently with unsubstantiated bullshit so you're now making the claim about 2021 - back it up.

In your state hospitals are in crisis every single winter. 600-700 on hospital trolleys waiting for beds - what's new about it? Maybe if they had done something about an understaffed, under resourced, dysfunctional two-tier health service - the level of death would be nowhere near current figures? But then again you probably vote the parties that privatised health care in the south and priced the working class out of acceptable health care.

If we follow the stats we see that this virus has a negligble impact on young people. A fatality rate of 0.0064% on young people. We know for an absolute fact that things like suicide, alcohol, drugs and road traffic accidents are a far bigger scourge and source of mortality in young people.

And when this is put to you, we can see for all your faux sanctimony and moralising. You claim people have a choice to buy alcohol, f**k anybody who dies because some drunk sits in behind the wheel of a car or attacks a person on a night out, that's perfectly acceptable to you.

It's pure hypocrisy and it's so easy to expose with you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 20, 2021, 09:42:05 AM
24 deaths yesterday, hopefully there are less today as it's getting out of hand.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 09:47:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 19, 2021, 11:50:13 PM
Nurse from a Cork Hospital on the News tonight talking about the trauma of treating young people unable to breathe because of this awful virus.

Do you ever post about the awful trauma of suicide victims, road traffic deaths or cancer sufferers or do you cynically use Covid as a train for your own sanctimony.

Maybe have a word with a domestic abuse victim about her trauma.

Your Gay Byrne facade would make anyone sick.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 09:49:58 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 09:30:39 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 11:29:09 PM
So a link to a newspaper story is your source Angelo. Did you read it this time? You've made that mistake before. Imagine linking al court case a "big pharma company" as you like to call them in attempt to discredit them only to find out they actually won the case. That must have been very embarrassing for you.

So when reading the newspaper article did it give the current number of patients being treated in 2021 for alcohol related ilness? That was the original question before you went off on your tangent as you couldn't answer the question.

I admit I don't know the figure but I would expect it to be practically zero. At the moment if you watch tv shows called "The News" you'd see hospitals are in crisis as they can't handle all the Covid patients they are expected to treat.

If we follow your stats and facts then at least we can take some comfort in the fact there's no young people in hospital as Covid is in your words little or no threat to people under 40. Your claim would be confirmed when the hospitals release the age ranges of people being treated for Covid I assume?

The NHS are. Are you illiterate or did you just not read?

but while the NHS estimates that the cost of treatment runs to £3.5bn a year,

It seems once you are presented with facts that aren't to your liking you seem to do everything in your power to deny them and dismiss them. I have given you all the data you asked for on alcohol, why it is a scourge and how we only make half hearted efforts to combat it in society and huge consequences it has.

You first asked for facts and then when the facts come forward it's the same old from you - deny, deny, deny, deflect, deflect, deflect.

The exact same rationale you have used when it comes to Dublin GAA, big pharmaceuticals and Covid. You are incapable of accepting facts because it does not mesh with your elitist, entitled, right wing view of society.

We have clarified that you couldn't five a shit about the scourge of alcohol on society and the the health service. As long as you get to go down to the off license and buy your carry out then that's alright for you.

Why are you asking me for 2021 figures? I have given you facts - if you want to disprove me then you go and get the figures. Show me I'm wrong, you spout an endless amount of nonsense but you never back it up. You can sling all the mud you wish at me but I'm backed up my points with figures and sources, you just delfect consistently with unsubstantiated bullshit so you're now making the claim about 2021 - back it up.

In your state hospitals are in crisis every single winter. 600-700 on hospital trolleys waiting for beds - what's new about it? Maybe if they had done something about an understaffed, under resourced, dysfunctional two-tier health service - the level of death would be nowhere near current figures? But then again you probably vote the parties that privatised health care in the south and priced the working class out of acceptable health care.

If we follow the stats we see that this virus has a negligble impact on young people. A fatality rate of 0.0064% on young people. We know for an absolute fact that things like suicide, alcohol, drugs and road traffic accidents are a far bigger scourge and source of mortality in young people.

And when this is put to you, we can see for all your faux sanctimony and moralising. You claim people have a choice to buy alcohol, f**k anybody who dies because some drunk sits in behind the wheel of a car or attacks a person on a night out, that's perfectly acceptable to you.

It's pure hypocrisy and it's so easy to expose with you.

Let it go Angelo. The fact you are referencing a newspaper article says everything. The figures mentioned in the study you are trying to claim as proof only go to 2019 and have no correlation or relevance to the actual numbers is hospital in the current pandemic. You can down as many different roads/tangents as you want with your waffle but for someone who boasts about the facts you're not providing any relevant ones.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 09:58:23 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 09:49:58 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 09:30:39 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 19, 2021, 11:29:09 PM
So a link to a newspaper story is your source Angelo. Did you read it this time? You've made that mistake before. Imagine linking al court case a "big pharma company" as you like to call them in attempt to discredit them only to find out they actually won the case. That must have been very embarrassing for you.

So when reading the newspaper article did it give the current number of patients being treated in 2021 for alcohol related ilness? That was the original question before you went off on your tangent as you couldn't answer the question.

I admit I don't know the figure but I would expect it to be practically zero. At the moment if you watch tv shows called "The News" you'd see hospitals are in crisis as they can't handle all the Covid patients they are expected to treat.

If we follow your stats and facts then at least we can take some comfort in the fact there's no young people in hospital as Covid is in your words little or no threat to people under 40. Your claim would be confirmed when the hospitals release the age ranges of people being treated for Covid I assume?

The NHS are. Are you illiterate or did you just not read?

but while the NHS estimates that the cost of treatment runs to £3.5bn a year,

It seems once you are presented with facts that aren't to your liking you seem to do everything in your power to deny them and dismiss them. I have given you all the data you asked for on alcohol, why it is a scourge and how we only make half hearted efforts to combat it in society and huge consequences it has.

You first asked for facts and then when the facts come forward it's the same old from you - deny, deny, deny, deflect, deflect, deflect.

The exact same rationale you have used when it comes to Dublin GAA, big pharmaceuticals and Covid. You are incapable of accepting facts because it does not mesh with your elitist, entitled, right wing view of society.

We have clarified that you couldn't five a shit about the scourge of alcohol on society and the the health service. As long as you get to go down to the off license and buy your carry out then that's alright for you.

Why are you asking me for 2021 figures? I have given you facts - if you want to disprove me then you go and get the figures. Show me I'm wrong, you spout an endless amount of nonsense but you never back it up. You can sling all the mud you wish at me but I'm backed up my points with figures and sources, you just delfect consistently with unsubstantiated bullshit so you're now making the claim about 2021 - back it up.

In your state hospitals are in crisis every single winter. 600-700 on hospital trolleys waiting for beds - what's new about it? Maybe if they had done something about an understaffed, under resourced, dysfunctional two-tier health service - the level of death would be nowhere near current figures? But then again you probably vote the parties that privatised health care in the south and priced the working class out of acceptable health care.

If we follow the stats we see that this virus has a negligble impact on young people. A fatality rate of 0.0064% on young people. We know for an absolute fact that things like suicide, alcohol, drugs and road traffic accidents are a far bigger scourge and source of mortality in young people.

And when this is put to you, we can see for all your faux sanctimony and moralising. You claim people have a choice to buy alcohol, f**k anybody who dies because some drunk sits in behind the wheel of a car or attacks a person on a night out, that's perfectly acceptable to you.

It's pure hypocrisy and it's so easy to expose with you.

Let it go Angelo. The fact you are referencing a newspaper article says everything. The figures mentioned in the study you are trying to claim as proof only go to 2019 and have no correlation or relevance to the actual numbers is hospital in the current pandemic. You can down as many different roads tangent with your waffle but for someone who boasts about the facts you're not providing any relevant ones.

Referencing a newspaper article. I'll repeat the same assertion earlier, you are either illiterate or you did not read it? Which one is it. The £3.5bn figures from the NHS from a report they commissioned, you're showing everyone here what sort of person you are - when reputable sources are put forward that corroborate points you seek to try and baselessly discredit them and deflect. That figure is a figure from an NHS report, but you want to deny that. Looks like we have our own holocaust denier on the board.

The figures I have presented showed annual figures over a number of a years with slight variations. We have all been made aware that you are a complete and utter hypocrite so spare us your sanctimonious and disingenuous comments on Covid. You don't give a toss about people's health, the health service or people dying. We see that from your views on alcohol. We can do so much more to combat alcohol but you actually don't care.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 10:03:09 AM
Dublin I have heard nurses and doctors on tv many times before covid talking about how traumatic it is treating young patients
Why bring it up now?
Under 40s are treated in hospital many many will survive covid and a small minority won't
When you look at countries that have eliminated it nobody to blame here but the government
We have effectively been out of lockdown for about 10 weeks since March last year
You don't like posters that don't agree with you
Where was the uproar last year when we had not hospital beds?
When patients were lying on corridors?
When the waiting list is 5 years ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 10:08:20 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 09:49:58 AM
You can down as many different roads/tangents as you want with your waffle but for someone who boasts about the facts you're not providing any relevant ones.

This sort of nonsense deserves special attention. Relevant facts are there that dispute your hypocrisy.

Your original comments

You can choose to drink alcohol. If you drink excess amounts alcohol it will only damage your body and nobody else. If individuals (especially young people) refuse to follow lockdown rules, were masks and ignore all medical advice they can pick up covid and pass it on to an infinite amount of individuals and cause an infinite amount of deaths for innocent people.

I have given you the following facts, backed up by sources.

13-14k hospital admissions in the O6 every year.

A cost of £3.5bn to the NHS

300-400 alcohol related deaths in the O6 every year.

And now that you denied something, you want to ignore the relevant, substantiated and sourced facts that show you were talking out of your arse.

You don't like the truth and how is paints you as a sanctimonious liar.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 10:12:15 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 10:08:20 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 09:49:58 AM
You can down as many different roads/tangents as you want with your waffle but for someone who boasts about the facts you're not providing any relevant ones.

This sort of nonsense deserves special attention. Relevant facts are there that dispute your hypocrisy.

Your original comments

You can choose to drink alcohol. If you drink excess amounts alcohol it will only damage your body and nobody else. If individuals (especially young people) refuse to follow lockdown rules, were masks and ignore all medical advice they can pick up covid and pass it on to an infinite amount of individuals and cause an infinite amount of deaths for innocent people.

I have given you the following facts, backed up by sources.

13-14k hospital admissions in the O6 every year.

A cost of £3.5bn to the NHS

300-400 alcohol related deaths in the O6 every year.

And now that you denied something, you want to ignore the relevant, substantiated and sourced facts that show you were talking out of your arse.

You don't like the truth and how is paints you as a sanctimonious liar.
It's like dealing with a spoilt child who won't accept no for an answer. The £3.5bn you claim is the cost to the NHS was an estimate. Do you understand what estimate means? I've googled it for you:

estimate
noun [ C ]
UK  /ˈes.tɪ.mət/ US  /ˈes.tə.mət/

B2
a guess of what the size, value, amount, cost, etc. of something might be:

That was before covid. I don't know what the situation is now and clearly neither do you.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 10:19:38 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 10:12:15 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 10:08:20 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 09:49:58 AM
You can down as many different roads/tangents as you want with your waffle but for someone who boasts about the facts you're not providing any relevant ones.

This sort of nonsense deserves special attention. Relevant facts are there that dispute your hypocrisy.

Your original comments

You can choose to drink alcohol. If you drink excess amounts alcohol it will only damage your body and nobody else. If individuals (especially young people) refuse to follow lockdown rules, were masks and ignore all medical advice they can pick up covid and pass it on to an infinite amount of individuals and cause an infinite amount of deaths for innocent people.

I have given you the following facts, backed up by sources.

13-14k hospital admissions in the O6 every year.

A cost of £3.5bn to the NHS

300-400 alcohol related deaths in the O6 every year.

And now that you denied something, you want to ignore the relevant, substantiated and sourced facts that show you were talking out of your arse.

You don't like the truth and how is paints you as a sanctimonious liar.
It's like dealing with a spoilt child who won't accept no for an answer. The £3.5bn you claim is the cost to the NHS was an estimate. Do you understand what estimate means? I've googled it for you:

estimate
noun [ C ]
UK  /ˈes.tɪ.mət/ US  /ˈes.tə.mət/

B2
a guess of what the size, value, amount, cost, etc. of something might be:

That was before covid. I don't know what the situation is now and clearly neither do you.

An estimate from the NHS. The National Health Service in a report they published on alcohol.

So you are not questioning the NHS and their reports as being what? A fabrication, a fudge? What are you saying about that NHS report. Tell us.

You seem to be continuing down the line that alcohol is no problem in society, has no impact on the health service, is not the cause of hundreds of deaths every year. Yet facts from government departments and the Health Service say absolutely the opposite. What is your agenda here?

Here's some quick information on your state.

https://alcoholireland.ie/facts/alcohol-related-harm-facts-and-statistics/#:~:text=Alcohol%20is%20responsible%20for%2088,of%20all%20suicides%20in%20Ireland.

Alcohol is responsible for 88 deaths every month in Ireland. That's over 1,000 deaths per year.
One in four deaths of young men aged 15-39 in Ireland is due to alcohol.
Alcohol is a factor in half of all suicides in Ireland. Alcohol is also involved in over a third of cases of deliberate self-harm, peaking around weekends and public holidays.
Liver disease rates are increasing rapidly in Ireland and the greatest level of increase is among 15-to-34-year-olds, who historically had the lowest rates of liver disease.
900 people in Ireland are diagnosed with alcohol-related cancers and around 500 people die from these diseases every year; one in eight breasts cancer are alcohol related.
Drink-driving is a factor in two fifths of all deaths on Irish roads; 1 in 2 pedestrians killed on roads had consumed alcohol.

The bits in bold worry you at all? Are you going to dispuite Alochol Ireland's figures too?

Alcohol Ireland estimate over 88 alcohol related deaths every month, that's 1,056 alcohol related deaths every year. 1 in 4 deaths of 15-39s is related to alcohol. But it's a choice right? Nothing needs to be done about it right.

Sactimonious, hypocritical bullshit from you, as usual.


And then we have this gem from you

"That was before covid. I don't know what the situation is now and clearly neither do you."

So obviously nothing mattered before Covid? People can knock themselves out drinking, killing themselves and others, impacting their families and friends and those they indirectly harm, draining the health service because nothing mattered before Covid or will after Covid.

I think you proved my point there with that outlook. Alcohol doesn't matter, only Covid does. No other ill matters to you, f**k if it's cancer, alcohol, road traffic accidents etc - you only care about Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 10:36:08 AM
I'm going to mute you now Angelo. As you can't produce facts you're now just being abusive. Why is that? Do you think it makes you seem tough?  That's no way to go through life
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 10:46:44 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 10:36:08 AM
I'm going to mute you now Angelo. As you can't produce facts you're now just being abusive. Why is that? Do you think it makes you seem tough?  That's no way to go through life

You're going to mute me because you're a coward who has been shown to be very disingenuous and completely hypocritical.

I haven't been one bit abusive. I have just called out your trolling and double standards and in typical coward fashion you have ran away.

Cowards run away. You are running away.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on January 20, 2021, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 09:47:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 19, 2021, 11:50:13 PM
Nurse from a Cork Hospital on the News tonight talking about the trauma of treating young people unable to breathe because of this awful virus.

Do you ever post about the awful trauma of suicide victims, road traffic deaths or cancer sufferers or do you cynically use Covid as a train for your own sanctimony.

Maybe have a word with a domestic abuse victim about her trauma.

Your Gay Byrne facade would make anyone sick.

The irony of this post is just stunning!
;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 12:33:48 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 20, 2021, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 09:47:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 19, 2021, 11:50:13 PM
Nurse from a Cork Hospital on the News tonight talking about the trauma of treating young people unable to breathe because of this awful virus.

Do you ever post about the awful trauma of suicide victims, road traffic deaths or cancer sufferers or do you cynically use Covid as a train for your own sanctimony.

Maybe have a word with a domestic abuse victim about her trauma.

Your Gay Byrne facade would make anyone sick.

The irony of this post is just stunning!
;D ;D ;D

No irony there at all.

Where guys like you put Covid victims up at the top of a hierarchy I have consistently argued that we need to look at all victims equally and at the minute we are not doing that.

We have you usual empty smartarse comment before you'll run on again. Tell me why Covid victims are above everyone else. Show me your concern and your demand that we address other causes of preventable deaths that happen on an ongoing, annual basis. I don't expect you'll be able to address this - quelle surprise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on January 20, 2021, 12:41:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 20, 2021, 09:42:05 AM
24 deaths yesterday, hopefully there are less today as it's getting out of hand.

Got out of hand you mean.

There's a two week lag from community spread till the hospitals start filling up then another week or two till the deaths start.

The deaths we're seeing now are due to the irresponsible behaviour in and around the lead up to Christmas and over the festive season.

We're not expecting this to peak for another week or so.

Sobering numbers all the same.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 20, 2021, 02:09:57 PM
22 dead today :( 905 cases so still pretty high though notably a lot more tests carried out today. ICU going up a bit but inpatients going down a bit (but just a bit).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on January 20, 2021, 02:15:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 12:33:48 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 20, 2021, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 09:47:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 19, 2021, 11:50:13 PM
Nurse from a Cork Hospital on the News tonight talking about the trauma of treating young people unable to breathe because of this awful virus.

Do you ever post about the awful trauma of suicide victims, road traffic deaths or cancer sufferers or do you cynically use Covid as a train for your own sanctimony.

Maybe have a word with a domestic abuse victim about her trauma.

Your Gay Byrne facade would make anyone sick.

The irony of this post is just stunning!
;D ;D ;D

No irony there at all.

Where guys like you put Covid victims up at the top of a hierarchy I have consistently argued that we need to look at all victims equally and at the minute we are not doing that.

We have you usual empty smartarse comment before you'll run on again. Tell me why Covid victims are above everyone else. Show me your concern and your demand that we address other causes of preventable deaths that happen on an ongoing, annual basis. I don't expect you'll be able to address this - quelle surprise.

;D ;D
No irony at all. (Sarcasm)

You're not worth conversing with on this topic as you cant see any point of view but your own and resort to insult when someone disagrees with you.
But just for the craic....you say...
     
Quoteyou cynically use Covid as a train for your own sanctimony.
Then on the very next line:
     
QuoteMaybe have a word with a domestic abuse victim about her trauma.

Looks like someone is using domestic abuse as a train for their own sanctimony.

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ty4Sam on January 20, 2021, 02:58:13 PM
Definitely some worrying news starting to filter through about the vaccine. An uneven spread of distribution around the world which defeats the purpose of immunisation. A delay in the Astra vaccine in Ireland until mid February at the earliest and probably worst of all is reports from Israel that they believe one dose of the Pfizer vaccine is giving just 33% efficacy. If we are in this for the long haul then surely closing borders, 14 day hotel quarantine and letting us get on with it is the only viable option.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 03:00:29 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 20, 2021, 02:15:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 12:33:48 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 20, 2021, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 09:47:54 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 19, 2021, 11:50:13 PM
Nurse from a Cork Hospital on the News tonight talking about the trauma of treating young people unable to breathe because of this awful virus.

Do you ever post about the awful trauma of suicide victims, road traffic deaths or cancer sufferers or do you cynically use Covid as a train for your own sanctimony.

Maybe have a word with a domestic abuse victim about her trauma.

Your Gay Byrne facade would make anyone sick.

The irony of this post is just stunning!
;D ;D ;D

No irony there at all.

Where guys like you put Covid victims up at the top of a hierarchy I have consistently argued that we need to look at all victims equally and at the minute we are not doing that.

We have you usual empty smartarse comment before you'll run on again. Tell me why Covid victims are above everyone else. Show me your concern and your demand that we address other causes of preventable deaths that happen on an ongoing, annual basis. I don't expect you'll be able to address this - quelle surprise.

;D ;D
No irony at all. (Sarcasm)

You're not worth conversing with on this topic as you cant see any point of view but your own and resort to insult when someone disagrees with you.
But just for the craic....you say...
     
Quoteyou cynically use Covid as a train for your own sanctimony.
Then on the very next line:
     
QuoteMaybe have a word with a domestic abuse victim about her trauma.

Looks like someone is using domestic abuse as a train for their own sanctimony.

;D ;D ;D

Yes. That's exposing his sanctimony. If he can show me where he is so sympathetic to other causes of deaths that are currently happening then he has me beaten but it seems to me that he has used this thread as a vehicle to show us how much he cares when it's very hollow.

The floor is Rossfan's but like his fellow free state coward in Dublin7, when the floor is there for them to fight these accusations they are simply unable to.

Do not do unto other others......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 03:49:34 PM
Quote from: Ty4Sam on January 20, 2021, 02:58:13 PM
Definitely some worrying news starting to filter through about the vaccine. An uneven spread of distribution around the world which defeats the purpose of immunisation. A delay in the Astra vaccine in Ireland until mid February at the earliest and probably worst of all is reports from Israel that they believe one dose of the Pfizer vaccine is giving just 33% efficacy. If we are in this for the long haul then surely closing borders, 14 day hotel quarantine and letting us get on with it is the only viable option.

That's not quite true. What they said was if the 2nd dose is given within the 14 days of the 1st dose as recommended then the vaccine is performing as advertised by Pfizer.

People who received the 2nd dose after 14 days (21 days recommended limit) then they see a drop off in the perfomance of the vaccine and that's were they are getting the 33% efficacy figure
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on January 20, 2021, 03:52:26 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 03:49:34 PM
Quote from: Ty4Sam on January 20, 2021, 02:58:13 PM
Definitely some worrying news starting to filter through about the vaccine. An uneven spread of distribution around the world which defeats the purpose of immunisation. A delay in the Astra vaccine in Ireland until mid February at the earliest and probably worst of all is reports from Israel that they believe one dose of the Pfizer vaccine is giving just 33% efficacy. If we are in this for the long haul then surely closing borders, 14 day hotel quarantine and letting us get on with it is the only viable option.

That's not quite true. What they said was if the 2nd dose is given within the 14 days of the 1st dose as recommended then the vaccine is performing as advertised by Pfizer.

People who received the 2nd dose after the 14 day recommended limit (like the UK) see a significant drop off in the perfomance of the vaccine and that's were they are getting the 33% efficacy figure
Doing a bit of reading up on this myself.  It looks as if meddling with when the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine is given will turn out to be a mistake.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 03:58:20 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 03:49:34 PM
Quote from: Ty4Sam on January 20, 2021, 02:58:13 PM
Definitely some worrying news starting to filter through about the vaccine. An uneven spread of distribution around the world which defeats the purpose of immunisation. A delay in the Astra vaccine in Ireland until mid February at the earliest and probably worst of all is reports from Israel that they believe one dose of the Pfizer vaccine is giving just 33% efficacy. If we are in this for the long haul then surely closing borders, 14 day hotel quarantine and letting us get on with it is the only viable option.

That's not quite true. What they said was if the 2nd dose is given within the 14 days of the 1st dose as recommended then the vaccine is performing as advertised by Pfizer.

People who received the 2nd dose after 14 days (21 days recommended limit) then they see a drop off in the perfomance of the vaccine and that's were they are getting the 33% efficacy figure

Well who would have thought it.

You've made look quite the mug by big pharma yet again. More slow learning by dublin7.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on January 20, 2021, 04:48:44 PM
Quote from: mackers on January 20, 2021, 03:52:26 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 03:49:34 PM
Quote from: Ty4Sam on January 20, 2021, 02:58:13 PM
Definitely some worrying news starting to filter through about the vaccine. An uneven spread of distribution around the world which defeats the purpose of immunisation. A delay in the Astra vaccine in Ireland until mid February at the earliest and probably worst of all is reports from Israel that they believe one dose of the Pfizer vaccine is giving just 33% efficacy. If we are in this for the long haul then surely closing borders, 14 day hotel quarantine and letting us get on with it is the only viable option.

That's not quite true. What they said was if the 2nd dose is given within the 14 days of the 1st dose as recommended then the vaccine is performing as advertised by Pfizer.

People who received the 2nd dose after the 14 day recommended limit (like the UK) see a significant drop off in the perfomance of the vaccine and that's were they are getting the 33% efficacy figure
Doing a bit of reading up on this myself.  It looks as if meddling with when the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine is given will turn out to be a mistake.

I believe Pfizer themselves said that the 2nd does was required within the timeframe they recommended.
Could be a load of wasted vaccines administered then at this point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 20, 2021, 04:59:11 PM
Quote from: Ty4Sam on January 20, 2021, 02:58:13 PM
Definitely some worrying news starting to filter through about the vaccine. An uneven spread of distribution around the world which defeats the purpose of immunisation. A delay in the Astra vaccine in Ireland until mid February at the earliest and probably worst of all is reports from Israel that they believe one dose of the Pfizer vaccine is giving just 33% efficacy. If we are in this for the long haul then surely closing borders, 14 day hotel quarantine and letting us get on with it is the only viable option.

There is not enough vaccine at present, it is being distributed in the developed world where they are able to do it and the population is oldest. Production of vaccines will ramp up greatly and everyone can then get done. There is a production bottleneck but a lot of people are working on changing this.
One dose of the Pfizer vaccine may not be great, but other data in Israel shows that 2 doses are about as effective as could be.
https://www.ynetnews.com/health_science/article/H1jaK7mkd
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 20, 2021, 04:59:39 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on January 20, 2021, 04:48:44 PM
Quote from: mackers on January 20, 2021, 03:52:26 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 03:49:34 PM
Quote from: Ty4Sam on January 20, 2021, 02:58:13 PM
Definitely some worrying news starting to filter through about the vaccine. An uneven spread of distribution around the world which defeats the purpose of immunisation. A delay in the Astra vaccine in Ireland until mid February at the earliest and probably worst of all is reports from Israel that they believe one dose of the Pfizer vaccine is giving just 33% efficacy. If we are in this for the long haul then surely closing borders, 14 day hotel quarantine and letting us get on with it is the only viable option.

That's not quite true. What they said was if the 2nd dose is given within the 14 days of the 1st dose as recommended then the vaccine is performing as advertised by Pfizer.

People who received the 2nd dose after the 14 day recommended limit (like the UK) see a significant drop off in the perfomance of the vaccine and that's were they are getting the 33% efficacy figure
Doing a bit of reading up on this myself.  It looks as if meddling with when the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine is given will turn out to be a mistake.

I believe Pfizer themselves said that the 2nd does was required within the timeframe they recommended.
Could be a load of wasted vaccines administered then at this point.

British take something perfectly good, meddle with it a bit to suit their own ends and and f**k it up completely.

Surely not?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 05:04:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 20, 2021, 04:59:11 PM
Quote from: Ty4Sam on January 20, 2021, 02:58:13 PM
Definitely some worrying news starting to filter through about the vaccine. An uneven spread of distribution around the world which defeats the purpose of immunisation. A delay in the Astra vaccine in Ireland until mid February at the earliest and probably worst of all is reports from Israel that they believe one dose of the Pfizer vaccine is giving just 33% efficacy. If we are in this for the long haul then surely closing borders, 14 day hotel quarantine and letting us get on with it is the only viable option.

There is not enough vaccine at present, it is being distributed in the developed world where they are able to do it and the population is oldest. Production of vaccines will ramp up greatly and everyone can then get done. There is a production bottleneck but a lot of people are working on changing this.
One dose of the Pfizer vaccine may not be great, but other data in Israel shows that 2 doses are about as effective as could be.
https://www.ynetnews.com/health_science/article/H1jaK7mkd

Important to note as well that their research shows that people who receive the two doses will not become carriers and are unlikely to pass on the virus to others. That should be emphasised to people who think they don't need the vaccine (especially the younger generation who think covid can't affect them)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 20, 2021, 05:35:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 05:04:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 20, 2021, 04:59:11 PM
Quote from: Ty4Sam on January 20, 2021, 02:58:13 PM
Definitely some worrying news starting to filter through about the vaccine. An uneven spread of distribution around the world which defeats the purpose of immunisation. A delay in the Astra vaccine in Ireland until mid February at the earliest and probably worst of all is reports from Israel that they believe one dose of the Pfizer vaccine is giving just 33% efficacy. If we are in this for the long haul then surely closing borders, 14 day hotel quarantine and letting us get on with it is the only viable option.

There is not enough vaccine at present, it is being distributed in the developed world where they are able to do it and the population is oldest. Production of vaccines will ramp up greatly and everyone can then get done. There is a production bottleneck but a lot of people are working on changing this.
One dose of the Pfizer vaccine may not be great, but other data in Israel shows that 2 doses are about as effective as could be.
https://www.ynetnews.com/health_science/article/H1jaK7mkd

Important to note as well that their research shows that people who receive the two doses will not become carriers and are unlikely to pass on the virus to others. That should be emphasised to people who think they don't need the vaccine (especially the younger generation who think covid can't affect them)
Is this definite? Would be great news if true and should put to bed the arguments around the benefits of the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 05:51:31 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 20, 2021, 05:35:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 05:04:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 20, 2021, 04:59:11 PM
Quote from: Ty4Sam on January 20, 2021, 02:58:13 PM
Definitely some worrying news starting to filter through about the vaccine. An uneven spread of distribution around the world which defeats the purpose of immunisation. A delay in the Astra vaccine in Ireland until mid February at the earliest and probably worst of all is reports from Israel that they believe one dose of the Pfizer vaccine is giving just 33% efficacy. If we are in this for the long haul then surely closing borders, 14 day hotel quarantine and letting us get on with it is the only viable option.

There is not enough vaccine at present, it is being distributed in the developed world where they are able to do it and the population is oldest. Production of vaccines will ramp up greatly and everyone can then get done. There is a production bottleneck but a lot of people are working on changing this.
One dose of the Pfizer vaccine may not be great, but other data in Israel shows that 2 doses are about as effective as could be.
https://www.ynetnews.com/health_science/article/H1jaK7mkd

Important to note as well that their research shows that people who receive the two doses will not become carriers and are unlikely to pass on the virus to others. That should be emphasised to people who think they don't need the vaccine (especially the younger generation who think covid can't affect them)
Is this definite? Would be great news if true and should put to bed the arguments around the benefits of the vaccine.

Dublin7 is a known liar.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on January 20, 2021, 05:53:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 20, 2021, 05:35:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 05:04:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 20, 2021, 04:59:11 PM
Quote from: Ty4Sam on January 20, 2021, 02:58:13 PM
Definitely some worrying news starting to filter through about the vaccine. An uneven spread of distribution around the world which defeats the purpose of immunisation. A delay in the Astra vaccine in Ireland until mid February at the earliest and probably worst of all is reports from Israel that they believe one dose of the Pfizer vaccine is giving just 33% efficacy. If we are in this for the long haul then surely closing borders, 14 day hotel quarantine and letting us get on with it is the only viable option.

There is not enough vaccine at present, it is being distributed in the developed world where they are able to do it and the population is oldest. Production of vaccines will ramp up greatly and everyone can then get done. There is a production bottleneck but a lot of people are working on changing this.
One dose of the Pfizer vaccine may not be great, but other data in Israel shows that 2 doses are about as effective as could be.
https://www.ynetnews.com/health_science/article/H1jaK7mkd

Important to note as well that their research shows that people who receive the two doses will not become carriers and are unlikely to pass on the virus to others. That should be emphasised to people who think they don't need the vaccine (especially the younger generation who think covid can't affect them)
Is this definite? Would be great news if true and should put to bed the arguments around the benefits of the vaccine.

That is a game changer if true.

The virus could be eradicated if that's the case providing the developed world work their bollox off to help the developing nations to roll out the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 05:55:38 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 20, 2021, 05:53:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 20, 2021, 05:35:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 05:04:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 20, 2021, 04:59:11 PM
Quote from: Ty4Sam on January 20, 2021, 02:58:13 PM
Definitely some worrying news starting to filter through about the vaccine. An uneven spread of distribution around the world which defeats the purpose of immunisation. A delay in the Astra vaccine in Ireland until mid February at the earliest and probably worst of all is reports from Israel that they believe one dose of the Pfizer vaccine is giving just 33% efficacy. If we are in this for the long haul then surely closing borders, 14 day hotel quarantine and letting us get on with it is the only viable option.

There is not enough vaccine at present, it is being distributed in the developed world where they are able to do it and the population is oldest. Production of vaccines will ramp up greatly and everyone can then get done. There is a production bottleneck but a lot of people are working on changing this.
One dose of the Pfizer vaccine may not be great, but other data in Israel shows that 2 doses are about as effective as could be.
https://www.ynetnews.com/health_science/article/H1jaK7mkd

Important to note as well that their research shows that people who receive the two doses will not become carriers and are unlikely to pass on the virus to others. That should be emphasised to people who think they don't need the vaccine (especially the younger generation who think covid can't affect them)
Is this definite? Would be great news if true and should put to bed the arguments around the benefits of the vaccine.

That is a game changer if true.

The virus could be eradicated if that's the case providing the developed world work their bollox off to help the developing nations to roll out the vaccine.

You think big pharma want to eradicate this virus?  ;D

What we will have is "new strains" and yearly boosters that we will need to get to combat this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
Bad news regarding the vaccine
Not as powerful as being made out
Plan B needed and needed very soon
I don't think there is a plan b after this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 20, 2021, 06:03:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 20, 2021, 05:53:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 20, 2021, 05:35:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 05:04:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 20, 2021, 04:59:11 PM
Quote from: Ty4Sam on January 20, 2021, 02:58:13 PM
Definitely some worrying news starting to filter through about the vaccine. An uneven spread of distribution around the world which defeats the purpose of immunisation. A delay in the Astra vaccine in Ireland until mid February at the earliest and probably worst of all is reports from Israel that they believe one dose of the Pfizer vaccine is giving just 33% efficacy. If we are in this for the long haul then surely closing borders, 14 day hotel quarantine and letting us get on with it is the only viable option.

There is not enough vaccine at present, it is being distributed in the developed world where they are able to do it and the population is oldest. Production of vaccines will ramp up greatly and everyone can then get done. There is a production bottleneck but a lot of people are working on changing this.
One dose of the Pfizer vaccine may not be great, but other data in Israel shows that 2 doses are about as effective as could be.
https://www.ynetnews.com/health_science/article/H1jaK7mkd

Important to note as well that their research shows that people who receive the two doses will not become carriers and are unlikely to pass on the virus to others. That should be emphasised to people who think they don't need the vaccine (especially the younger generation who think covid can't affect them)
Is this definite? Would be great news if true and should put to bed the arguments around the benefits of the vaccine.

That is a game changer if true.

The virus could be eradicated if that's the case providing the developed world work their bollox off to help the developing nations to roll out the vaccine.

This won't be proven for some months until a lot of data is collected. It also is not quite clear if all vaccines will have the same outcome in this regard. There is other vaccines and associated production coming down the line, this can cater for the whole world and are a bit easier to handle than the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. Perhaps one vaccine or some combination of these vaccines will prevent infection and then everyone can get that jab over the next year to close down the disease.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 06:09:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
Bad news regarding the vaccine
Not as powerful as being made out
Plan B needed and needed very soon
I don't think there is a plan b after this

They threw their eggs into one basket. This vaccine is not the quick fix people expected.

Hard to see any end to the current situation. The governments have failed us once again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 20, 2021, 06:19:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 06:09:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
Bad news regarding the vaccine
Not as powerful as being made out
Plan B needed and needed very soon
I don't think there is a plan b after this

They threw their eggs into one basket. This vaccine is not the quick fix people expected.

Hard to see any end to the current situation. The governments have failed us once again.


Stop talking complete manure
There are multiple vaccines of different types, amazingly all of these perform well, some better than could be reasonably expected. These vaccines will greatly improve the situation, stop magnifying every delay and variation into a crisis.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 06:28:02 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
Bad news regarding the vaccine
Not as powerful as being made out
Plan B needed and needed very soon
I don't think there is a plan b after this

Where did you see this? I haven't seen any indication that's true when the vaccine is given as per Pfizer's instructions.

Also the Norwegians have confirmed they could find no link between the vaccine and the deaths of elderly people as had been suggested last week
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ty4Sam on January 20, 2021, 06:34:29 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 06:28:02 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
Bad news regarding the vaccine
Not as powerful as being made out
Plan B needed and needed very soon
I don't think there is a plan b after this

Where did you see this? I haven't seen any indication that's true when the vaccine is given as per Pfizer's instructions.

Also the Norwegians have confirmed they could find no link between the vaccine and the deaths of elderly people as had been suggested last week

The problem is that the government here in NI are not administering as per Pfizer instructions. They are waiting 12 weeks to give the second dose rather than the recommended 2/3 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 06:28:02 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
Bad news regarding the vaccine
Not as powerful as being made out
Plan B needed and needed very soon
I don't think there is a plan b after this

Where did you see this? I haven't seen any indication that's true when the vaccine is given as per Pfizer's instructions.

Also the Norwegians have confirmed they could find no link between the vaccine and the deaths of elderly people as had been suggested last week

More complete and utter lies. The Norwegians said the deaths were likely to reactions to the vaccine. You are shameful.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 06:44:58 PM
Israel cases and deaths going up
Explain that one
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 20, 2021, 06:46:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 20, 2021, 06:19:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 06:09:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
Bad news regarding the vaccine
Not as powerful as being made out
Plan B needed and needed very soon
I don't think there is a plan b after this

They threw their eggs into one basket. This vaccine is not the quick fix people expected.

Hard to see any end to the current situation. The governments have failed us once again.


Stop talking complete manure

He'd be posting blanks then ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 20, 2021, 07:00:45 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 20, 2021, 05:53:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 20, 2021, 05:35:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 05:04:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 20, 2021, 04:59:11 PM
Quote from: Ty4Sam on January 20, 2021, 02:58:13 PM
Definitely some worrying news starting to filter through about the vaccine. An uneven spread of distribution around the world which defeats the purpose of immunisation. A delay in the Astra vaccine in Ireland until mid February at the earliest and probably worst of all is reports from Israel that they believe one dose of the Pfizer vaccine is giving just 33% efficacy. If we are in this for the long haul then surely closing borders, 14 day hotel quarantine and letting us get on with it is the only viable option.

There is not enough vaccine at present, it is being distributed in the developed world where they are able to do it and the population is oldest. Production of vaccines will ramp up greatly and everyone can then get done. There is a production bottleneck but a lot of people are working on changing this.
One dose of the Pfizer vaccine may not be great, but other data in Israel shows that 2 doses are about as effective as could be.
https://www.ynetnews.com/health_science/article/H1jaK7mkd

Important to note as well that their research shows that people who receive the two doses will not become carriers and are unlikely to pass on the virus to others. That should be emphasised to people who think they don't need the vaccine (especially the younger generation who think covid can't affect them)
Is this definite? Would be great news if true and should put to bed the arguments around the benefits of the vaccine.

That is a game changer if true.

The virus could be eradicated if that's the case providing the developed world work their bollox off to help the developing nations to roll out the vaccine.

Hats off to the big pharmaceutical companies in producing the various different vaccines, a petty  the governments couldn't sort out the roll out.

I'm up tomorrow, most of our company will have it by end of next week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 07:09:56 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 06:44:58 PM
Israel cases and deaths going up
Explain that one

They are doing their best to vaccinate everyone, bit it can't be done overnight. People are still going to get Covid and unfortunately some people (of all ages) will die.

What do you think should be happening and why?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 20, 2021, 07:16:36 PM




Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 06:44:58 PM
Israel cases and deaths going up
Explain that one


Drink and acting the bollix.



Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 20, 2021, 07:00:45 PM
Hats off to the big pharmaceutical companies in producing the various different vaccines, a petty  the governments couldn't sort out the roll out.

I'm up tomorrow, most of our company will have it by end of next week.

All of the vaccine producers have production problems. They'll all get a handle on things by March or April but the ramp up is problematic. Some governments have proved more effective than others at rolling out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Lar Naparka on January 20, 2021, 07:27:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 06:28:02 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
Bad news regarding the vaccine
Not as powerful as being made out
Plan B needed and needed very soon
I don't think there is a plan b after this

Where did you see this? I haven't seen any indication that's true when the vaccine is given as per Pfizer's instructions.

Also the Norwegians have confirmed they could find no link between the vaccine and the deaths of elderly people as had been suggested last week

More complete and utter lies. The Norwegians said the deaths were likely to reactions to the vaccine. You are shameful.
Mind telling us who said what?
Who are "The Norewegians" and what exactly did they say?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 07:29:34 PM
Well I would expect cases and deaths to drop
Is that not the whole point of the vaccine
Drink is why it hasn't???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 08:06:25 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 20, 2021, 07:27:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 06:28:02 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
Bad news regarding the vaccine
Not as powerful as being made out
Plan B needed and needed very soon
I don't think there is a plan b after this

Where did you see this? I haven't seen any indication that's true when the vaccine is given as per Pfizer's instructions.

Also the Norwegians have confirmed they could find no link between the vaccine and the deaths of elderly people as had been suggested last week

More complete and utter lies. The Norwegians said the deaths were likely to reactions to the vaccine. You are shameful.
Mind telling us who said what?
Who are "The Norewegians" and what exactly did they say?

The Norwegian Medical Agency.

Ask Dublin7 why he is spreading lies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 20, 2021, 08:10:32 PM
Will you be happy if the vaccine doesn't go to plan?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 08:14:55 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 20, 2021, 08:10:32 PM
Will you be happy if the vaccine doesn't go to plan?

No.

But I think some people need a reality check if they think big pharma are an ethical industry and are doing this for something other than profits.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 08:18:56 PM
No

Reality check needed
I started getting concerned when we were being told about 4 months ago this is the way out but now all of a sudden they are now saying things will need to continue as they were

This is the value of the vaccine at the minute
Doesn't stop you catching it
Doesn't stop you transmitting it
If a close contact u still need to isolate
Still requires you to wear a mask
Still requires you to keep your distance

What benefits has it for the under 60s that are healthy?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 20, 2021, 08:32:54 PM
You have to understand that your posts come across like you will be telling people i told you so at every possible opportunity whether there is something in what you say or not. Whether you intend to or not you are coming across as someone who would be happy to see it not work out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 09:03:06 PM
I do not want it to fail the opposite in fact
I am again stating facts
What's plan b if things don't work out with Vacinne?
240 Brazilians have entered this island in a week before the new rules came into play
Now accuse me of whatever you want but when that happens and us locked up I'll ask questions
What's plan b?
What's plan a?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 09:04:08 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 20, 2021, 07:27:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 06:28:02 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
Bad news regarding the vaccine
Not as powerful as being made out
Plan B needed and needed very soon
I don't think there is a plan b after this

Where did you see this? I haven't seen any indication that's true when the vaccine is given as per Pfizer's instructions.

Also the Norwegians have confirmed they could find no link between the vaccine and the deaths of elderly people as had been suggested last week

More complete and utter lies. The Norwegians said the deaths were likely to reactions to the vaccine. You are shameful.
Mind telling us who said what?
Who are "The Norewegians" and what exactly did they say?

Their were a number of deaths in Norway of people who received the vaccine and the Norwegian medical agency were worried the deaths were as a result of being administered the Covid vaccine. After investigating the deaths they could find no proof that the vaccinations were the cause of the deaths

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-18/norway-finds-no-direct-link-between-elderly-deaths-and-vaccine
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 20, 2021, 09:14:41 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 09:04:08 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 20, 2021, 07:27:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 06:28:02 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
Bad news regarding the vaccine
Not as powerful as being made out
Plan B needed and needed very soon
I don't think there is a plan b after this

Where did you see this? I haven't seen any indication that's true when the vaccine is given as per Pfizer's instructions.

Also the Norwegians have confirmed they could find no link between the vaccine and the deaths of elderly people as had been suggested last week

More complete and utter lies. The Norwegians said the deaths were likely to reactions to the vaccine. You are shameful.
Mind telling us who said what?
Who are "The Norewegians" and what exactly did they say?

Their were a number of deaths in Norway of people who received the vaccine and the Norwegian medical agency were worried the deaths were as a result of being administered the Covid vaccine. After investigating the deaths they could find no proof that the vaccinations were the cause of the deaths

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-18/norway-finds-no-direct-link-between-elderly-deaths-and-vaccine
Big pharma paid for their silence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 20, 2021, 09:34:14 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 20, 2021, 08:32:54 PM
You have to understand that your posts come across like you will be telling people i told you so at every possible opportunity whether there is something in what you say or not. Whether you intend to or not you are coming across as someone who would be happy to see it not work out.

His mask slips day by day...

He's Angelo lite
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 09:51:42 PM
So just because I have an opinion on things that you disagree with???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Lar Naparka on January 20, 2021, 09:54:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 08:06:25 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 20, 2021, 07:27:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 06:28:02 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
Bad news regarding the vaccine
Not as powerful as being made out
Plan B needed and needed very soon
I don't think there is a plan b after this

Where did you see this? I haven't seen any indication that's true when the vaccine is given as per Pfizer's instructions.

Also the Norwegians have confirmed they could find no link between the vaccine and the deaths of elderly people as had been suggested last week

More complete and utter lies. The Norwegians said the deaths were likely to reactions to the vaccine. You are shameful.
Mind telling us who said what?
Who are "The Norewegians" and what exactly did they say?

The Norwegian Medical Agency.

Ask Dublin7 why he is spreading lies.
Is that so?
I googled "Tha Norwegian Medical Agency" and this is what I found:
Authorities in Norway are investigating the deaths of 23 frail elderly patients who had recently received the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine.

Most experts have said there is no need for alarm with the fatalities in this group most likely to be a coincidence.

According to a report in the British Medical Journal  13 deaths have so far been investigated and authorities have concluded that common adverse reactions to mRNA vaccines, such as fever, nausea and diarrhoea, may have contributed to the deaths.
Here's the link:
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/norway-investigates-deaths-23-elderly-162030683.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 20, 2021, 09:57:49 PM
I actually didn't mean you smurfy. Sorry for confusion.

There is a concern among people as to where the hell do we go if the vaccine doesn't work. It really needs to for society or god knows what happens. There has never been a plan b but most of us would still be hopeful we won't need one. I think it's too early to think the vaccine won't work. It just seems wishful thinking from one for whatever bizarre reason.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Lar Naparka on January 20, 2021, 10:04:06 PM
I also found this further down the page in this SERP.


"Norway says no direct link between Pfizer COVID vaccine and 33 elderly deaths

There is no evidence of a "direct cause" between the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine and the deaths of multiple elderly people in Norway, health officials have reportedly said.

On Friday, the Norwegian Medicines Agency (NOMA) issued a statement saying that "common adverse reactions may have contributed to a severe course in elderly people who are frail".

Amid reports that a total of 33 people aged over 75 had died after being given a jab, NOMA played down safety concerns on Monday and said it was not "alarmed".

It also said that claims by Pfizer/BioNTech that Norway had changed its advice to consider excluding the terminally ill from receiving the vaccine were incorrect.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/norway-coronavirus-vaccine-deaths-latest-203705535.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on January 20, 2021, 10:59:23 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 20, 2021, 10:04:06 PM
I also found this further down the page in this SERP.


"Norway says no direct link between Pfizer COVID vaccine and 33 elderly deaths

There is no evidence of a "direct cause" between the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine and the deaths of multiple elderly people in Norway, health officials have reportedly said.

On Friday, the Norwegian Medicines Agency (NOMA) issued a statement saying that "common adverse reactions may have contributed to a severe course in elderly people who are frail".

Amid reports that a total of 33 people aged over 75 had died after being given a jab, NOMA played down safety concerns on Monday and said it was not "alarmed".

It also said that claims by Pfizer/BioNTech that Norway had changed its advice to consider excluding the terminally ill from receiving the vaccine were incorrect.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/norway-coronavirus-vaccine-deaths-latest-203705535.html


"NOMA's investigation of 13 of the deaths found that common adverse reactions to mRNA vaccines, including fever, nausea and diarrhoea, could have contributed to death in some frail patients,"

In other words the vaccine did not kill them but the known ill effects of the vaccine did ::)

If they say the vaccine killed them, then the Norwegian state is liable and more questions are asked and probably more reluctance to take up the vaccine.
The vaccine is always blameless. They apparently can get away with that as it was the known side effects.
But the known side effects are just too much for certain people 

NOMA then deny they are making judgements as to who might be too frail to receive the vaccine but then they state
Doctors are still giving out doses in Norway but "extra evaluation of very sick people" with underlying conditions that could be worsened by a bad reaction should be carried out. 

"The Norwegian government will also consider adjusting their vaccination instructions to take the patients' health into more consideration."

So the vaccines dont kill the very frail, it's just the side effect of the vaccine that does the killing. And they have not changed their advice re administration of the vaccine but will consider adjusting their vaccination instructions to take the patients' health into more consideration  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 20, 2021, 11:00:09 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 08:18:56 PM
No

Reality check needed
I started getting concerned when we were being told about 4 months ago this is the way out but now all of a sudden they are now saying things will need to continue as they were

This is the value of the vaccine at the minute
Doesn't stop you catching it
Doesn't stop you transmitting it
If a close contact u still need to isolate
Still requires you to wear a mask
Still requires you to keep your distance

What benefits has it for the under 60s that are healthy?

The vaccine is all about getting everyone stamped with the mark of the beast. Nothing else.

This virus ain't going away because it's doing the job it was meant to do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Lar Naparka on January 20, 2021, 11:12:23 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 20, 2021, 10:59:23 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 20, 2021, 10:04:06 PM
I also found this further down the page in this SERP.


"Norway says no direct link between Pfizer COVID vaccine and 33 elderly deaths

There is no evidence of a "direct cause" between the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine and the deaths of multiple elderly people in Norway, health officials have reportedly said.

On Friday, the Norwegian Medicines Agency (NOMA) issued a statement saying that "common adverse reactions may have contributed to a severe course in elderly people who are frail".

Amid reports that a total of 33 people aged over 75 had died after being given a jab, NOMA played down safety concerns on Monday and said it was not "alarmed".

It also said that claims by Pfizer/BioNTech that Norway had changed its advice to consider excluding the terminally ill from receiving the vaccine were incorrect.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/norway-coronavirus-vaccine-deaths-latest-203705535.html


"NOMA's investigation of 13 of the deaths found that common adverse reactions to mRNA vaccines, including fever, nausea and diarrhoea, could have contributed to death in some frail patients,"

In other words the vaccine did not kill them but the known ill effects of the vaccine did ::)

If they say the vaccine killed them, then the Norwegian state is liable and more questions are asked and probably more reluctance to take up the vaccine.
The vaccine is always blameless. They apparently can get away with that as it was the known side effects.
But the known side effects are just too much for certain people 

NOMA then deny they are making judgements as to who might be too frail to receive the vaccine but then they state
Doctors are still giving out doses in Norway but "extra evaluation of very sick people" with underlying conditions that could be worsened by a bad reaction should be carried out. 

"The Norwegian government will also consider adjusting their vaccination instructions to take the patients' health into more consideration."

So the vaccines dont kill the very frail, it's just the side effect of the vaccine that does the killing. And they have not changed their advice re administration of the vaccine but will consider adjusting their vaccination instructions to take the patients' health into more consideration  ;D
if you follow the link I have posted, you'll find that the source you are quoting predated mine.
This is an edit. I just reread your post and I want to comment on the following:

"NOMA's investigation of 13 of the deaths found that common adverse reactions to mRNA vaccines, including fever, nausea and diarrhoea, could have contributed to death in some frail patients,"
There's a helluva difference in meaning between could and did and that's for starters.

In another report, found on the search page I referred to, the frail patients were described as terminally ill.
This is from the same report.
"There is a possibility that these common adverse reactions, that are not dangerous in fitter, younger patients and are not unusual with vaccines, may aggravate underlying disease in the elderly," Mr Madsen said. "We are not alarmed or worried about this, because these are very rare occurrences and they occurred in very frail patients with very serious disease.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 11:30:01 PM
To me what they're saying is some people are to ill or frail to be treated with the vaccine. When my dad needed treatment for cancer we were told he couldn't have a certain form of chemo as his body/system wouldn't have been able to deal with it or the side effects. Thankfully the treatment they did go with worked.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Lar Naparka on January 21, 2021, 03:15:02 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 20, 2021, 09:14:41 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 09:04:08 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 20, 2021, 07:27:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 20, 2021, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 20, 2021, 06:28:02 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
Bad news regarding the vaccine
Not as powerful as being made out
Plan B needed and needed very soon
I don't think there is a plan b after this

Where did you see this? I haven't seen any indication that's true when the vaccine is given as per Pfizer's instructions.

Also the Norwegians have confirmed they could find no link between the vaccine and the deaths of elderly people as had been suggested last week

More complete and utter lies. The Norwegians said the deaths were likely to reactions to the vaccine. You are shameful.
Mind telling us who said what?
Who are "The Norewegians" and what exactly did they say?

Their were a number of deaths in Norway of people who received the vaccine and the Norwegian medical agency were worried the deaths were as a result of being administered the Covid vaccine. After investigating the deaths they could find no proof that the vaccinations were the cause of the deaths

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-18/norway-finds-no-direct-link-between-elderly-deaths-and-vaccine
[/quote]Big pharma paid for their silence.
You got anything to back that up?
Even if that allegation happened to be true, the results would have been replicated many times by now and BIG Pharma couldn't stifle every support.
Furthermore it would mean, if logic enters your argument at all, that by now Anthony Faucci, Tony Holohan and Robin Swann and Uncle Tom Cobley and all, were in on the lie.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Lar Naparka on January 21, 2021, 03:42:09 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 08:18:56 PM
No

Reality check needed
I started getting concerned when we were being told about 4 months ago this is the way out but now all of a sudden they are now saying things will need to continue as they were

This is the value of the vaccine at the minute
Doesn't stop you catching it
Doesn't stop you transmitting it
If a close contact u still need to isolate
Still requires you to wear a mask
Still requires you to keep your distance

What benefits has it for the under 60s that are healthy?
You have a lot of allegations there but no credible source for any of them, Can you show you ain't pulling some outra yer arse pocket to back our claims up? On good authority, (Prof Sam McConky in a daily news briefing] two of the above could be considered true.
A virus may be trapped in an individual's nose hair but cannot survive if it travels up the nasal passage. However, if colonies of the virus exists in a person's nose, even one with Covid immunity sneezing and coughing could pass the virus on to others. Strict attention to nasal hygeine is called for
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 21, 2021, 08:21:44 AM
This is depressing

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-republic-has-never-taken-cross-border-co-operation-on-covid-19-seriously-1.4463253

Genuine mystery surrounds the Irish Government's lengthy refusal to share Covid passenger data with Northern Ireland. The Government will not explain it and nobody else can see what the issue might be.

Health authorities in the North want access to the passenger locator forms filled in by people arriving in the Republic who are travelling on to Northern Ireland, so that self-isolation requirements can be followed up.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 21, 2021, 09:49:20 AM
Unions not content with being a pain in the hole for Parents (teaching unions) they now are intent on being a pain in hole for Covid patients. The Unison stance (even if they marginally backtracked this am) is nothing short of a disgrace. It shows the mentality of people involved. At the first sign of change they automatically dismiss it unless they've asked for it and it's went through 10 committees. I remember working in a meat factory years ago and seeing the people who were union reps. People who wanted everything and yet wouldn't work on a battery. Gerry Carroll from PBP on radio this morning another gobshite. Sounds like a man who wouldn't have done a days work in his life.
Unioson have lost all credibility.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 21, 2021, 10:42:16 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2021, 09:49:20 AM
Unions not content with being a pain in the hole for Parents (teaching unions) they now are intent on being a pain in hole for Covid patients. The Unison stance (even if they marginally backtracked this am) is nothing short of a disgrace. It shows the mentality of people involved. At the first sign of change they automatically dismiss it unless they've asked for it and it's went through 10 committees. I remember working in a meat factory years ago and seeing the people who were union reps. People who wanted everything and yet wouldn't work on a battery. Gerry Carroll from PBP on radio this morning another gobshite. Sounds like a man who wouldn't have done a days work in his life.
Unioson have lost all credibility.

That man lives in cloud cuckoo land, down here trying to force a union on lads too, we are well paid, i know absolutely of no disiplinaries, everyone gets automatic pay-rise, the whole party must be smoking peace pipes 24/7, trouble makers who would have us all sponging off welfare.

SF close second.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on January 21, 2021, 11:01:44 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 21, 2021, 03:42:09 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 20, 2021, 08:18:56 PM
No

Reality check needed
I started getting concerned when we were being told about 4 months ago this is the way out but now all of a sudden they are now saying things will need to continue as they were

This is the value of the vaccine at the minute
Doesn't stop you catching it
Doesn't stop you transmitting it
If a close contact u still need to isolate
Still requires you to wear a mask
Still requires you to keep your distance

What benefits has it for the under 60s that are healthy?
You have a lot of allegations there but no credible source for any of them, Can you show you ain't pulling some outra yer arse pocket to back our claims up? On good authority, (Prof Sam McConky in a daily news briefing] two of the above could be considered true.
A virus may be trapped in an individual's nose hair but cannot survive if it travels up the nasal passage. However, if colonies of the virus exists in a person's nose, even one with Covid immunity sneezing and coughing could pass the virus on to others. Strict attention to nasal hygeine is called for

I understand all those points are true, but putting them like that kind of misses the point. If the vaccine does what it is supposed to, it will help fewer people to get seriously ill and/or die if they catch the virus.

And ultimately if people stop dying or getting seriously ill from it, it becomes less of a menace to society and more of a nuisance, in the same way as the winter flu and the common cold are nuisances.

I think it's worth trying for that.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on January 21, 2021, 11:46:34 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 21, 2021, 10:42:16 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2021, 09:49:20 AM
Unions not content with being a pain in the hole for Parents (teaching unions) they now are intent on being a pain in hole for Covid patients. The Unison stance (even if they marginally backtracked this am) is nothing short of a disgrace. It shows the mentality of people involved. At the first sign of change they automatically dismiss it unless they've asked for it and it's went through 10 committees. I remember working in a meat factory years ago and seeing the people who were union reps. People who wanted everything and yet wouldn't work on a battery. Gerry Carroll from PBP on radio this morning another gobshite. Sounds like a man who wouldn't have done a days work in his life.
Unioson have lost all credibility.

That man lives in cloud cuckoo land, down here trying to force a union on lads too, we are well paid, i know absolutely of no disiplinaries, everyone gets automatic pay-rise, the whole party must be smoking peace pipes 24/7, trouble makers who would have us all sponging off welfare.

SF close second.

Gerry has always loved a good protest without ever knowing what it's about or why he's doing it. A man with lots of complaints and no suggestions for solutions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 21, 2021, 12:58:16 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 21, 2021, 11:46:34 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 21, 2021, 10:42:16 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 21, 2021, 09:49:20 AM
Unions not content with being a pain in the hole for Parents (teaching unions) they now are intent on being a pain in hole for Covid patients. The Unison stance (even if they marginally backtracked this am) is nothing short of a disgrace. It shows the mentality of people involved. At the first sign of change they automatically dismiss it unless they've asked for it and it's went through 10 committees. I remember working in a meat factory years ago and seeing the people who were union reps. People who wanted everything and yet wouldn't work on a battery. Gerry Carroll from PBP on radio this morning another gobshite. Sounds like a man who wouldn't have done a days work in his life.
Unioson have lost all credibility.

That man lives in cloud cuckoo land, down here trying to force a union on lads too, we are well paid, i know absolutely of no disiplinaries, everyone gets automatic pay-rise, the whole party must be smoking peace pipes 24/7, trouble makers who would have us all sponging off welfare.

SF close second.

Gerry has always loved a good protest without ever knowing what it's about or why he's doing it. A man with lots of complaints and no suggestions for solutions.

It's easy to be a Gerry.

I'm mad because everything is wrong and I'm gonna shout all day about it

Ask him for a practical solution to put it right and you will be met with silence

Very reminiscent of a few posters on this board
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 21, 2021, 05:07:20 PM
So....

Lockdown extended to March 05th (at best) in the North....

Who wants to take this one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 21, 2021, 05:18:02 PM
Always going to happen. The question is if March will end it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 21, 2021, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 21, 2021, 05:07:20 PM
So....

Lockdown extended to March 05th (at best) in the North....

Who wants to take this one.

Nobody wants it but it must be necessary. We'll just have to put up with it as best we can. The furlough scheme has taken a lot of the pressure off for me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 21, 2021, 05:19:42 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 21, 2021, 05:18:02 PM
Always going to happen. The question is if March will end it.

March 2022 won't end it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ty4Sam on January 21, 2021, 05:21:02 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2021, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 21, 2021, 05:07:20 PM
So....

Lockdown extended to March 05th (at best) in the North....

Who wants to take this one.

Nobody wants it but it must be necessary. We'll just have to put up with it as best we can. The furlough scheme has taken a lot of the pressure off for me.

Absolutely, doesn't bare thinking about how bad a situation we would be if it wasn't for the furlough scheme. I would expect another extension to it, beyond April, to be announced in the coming weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 21, 2021, 05:52:28 PM
Quote from: Ty4Sam on January 21, 2021, 05:21:02 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2021, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 21, 2021, 05:07:20 PM
So....

Lockdown extended to March 05th (at best) in the North....

Who wants to take this one.

Nobody wants it but it must be necessary. We'll just have to put up with it as best we can. The furlough scheme has taken a lot of the pressure off for me.

Absolutely, doesn't bare thinking about how bad a situation we would be if it wasn't for the furlough scheme. I would expect another extension to it, beyond April, to be announced in the coming weeks.

You'd think once the over 70s are complete (sometime in March), restrictions will be eased. Heads down for a wee while yet. Wee stretch in the evenings...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on January 21, 2021, 06:15:46 PM
Ill plump for Easter at least, lockdown and schools
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ty4Sam on January 21, 2021, 06:24:12 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 21, 2021, 05:52:28 PM
Quote from: Ty4Sam on January 21, 2021, 05:21:02 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2021, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 21, 2021, 05:07:20 PM
So....

Lockdown extended to March 05th (at best) in the North....

Who wants to take this one.

Nobody wants it but it must be necessary. We'll just have to put up with it as best we can. The furlough scheme has taken a lot of the pressure off for me.

Absolutely, doesn't bare thinking about how bad a situation we would be if it wasn't for the furlough scheme. I would expect another extension to it, beyond April, to be announced in the coming weeks.

You'd think once the over 70s are complete (sometime in March), restrictions will be eased. Heads down for a wee while yet. Wee stretch in the evenings...

Sorry, meant extension to the furlough scheme beyond April. I would hope this lockdown will be finished by/around Easter. Think we'll then move back into the tiered system of restrictions for God only knows how long.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 21, 2021, 06:26:18 PM
Quote from: Ty4Sam on January 21, 2021, 06:24:12 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 21, 2021, 05:52:28 PM
Quote from: Ty4Sam on January 21, 2021, 05:21:02 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2021, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 21, 2021, 05:07:20 PM
So....

Lockdown extended to March 05th (at best) in the North....

Who wants to take this one.

Nobody wants it but it must be necessary. We'll just have to put up with it as best we can. The furlough scheme has taken a lot of the pressure off for me.

Absolutely, doesn't bare thinking about how bad a situation we would be if it wasn't for the furlough scheme. I would expect another extension to it, beyond April, to be announced in the coming weeks.

You'd think once the over 70s are complete (sometime in March), restrictions will be eased. Heads down for a wee while yet. Wee stretch in the evenings...

Sorry, meant extension to the furlough scheme beyond April. I would hope this lockdown will be finished by/around Easter. Think we'll then move back into the tiered system of restrictions for God only knows how long.

Ah right. For how long, ask BennyCake  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 21, 2021, 07:53:24 PM
160 deaths recorded on the south of Ireland from covid in 14 days were in care homes
What a mess in care homes
Questions need to be asked
Sort it out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 21, 2021, 07:58:55 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1351490347390672897UPDATE: Following today's

@ONS

data for England and Wales, my estimate of the number of UK excess deaths linked to coronavirus since mid March 2020 has surpassed a new grim milestone of 106,300 Of these, 94,745 have been recorded officially, the remainder are estimates
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 22, 2021, 07:05:53 AM
So lockdown in the north continues until March 5th
6 weeks today
Going by the law of averages case numbers likely to be below 200 by then and the r number probably 0.5 so what would be the plan to come out of lockdown?
Add into that potentially 400000 people vaccinated and the flu season coming to an end
Pretty easy to lockdown but no plan to come out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2021, 07:19:49 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 22, 2021, 07:05:53 AM
So lockdown in the north continues until March 5th
6 weeks today
Going by the law of averages case numbers likely to be below 200 by then and the r number probably 0.5 so what would be the plan to come out of lockdown?
Add into that potentially 400000 people vaccinated and the flu season coming to an end
Pretty easy to lockdown but no plan to come out

If the North has a high proportion of the new English variant lockdown won't help much.

Also Israel has run into trouble with vacvination after the first dose.  It may be Halloween before things start getting back to normal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 22, 2021, 07:25:06 AM
That first statement is nonsense seafoid. If locked down properly then any variant has less places to go.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2021, 07:26:00 AM
https://www.ft.com/content/80b3c8f7-7af7-4491-ad4a-d3056b46753e

Coronavirus infections in Israel are soaring among those yet to be vaccinated, straining hospitals and forcing the government to extend a strict lockdown even as the country continues its breakneck vaccination drive. Close to 2.3m Israelis — out of an adult population of just over 6m — have received their first shot of the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine, which provides some protection after 10 days of the jab. Just over 600,000 have received their second jabs, the government said Thursday. But with daily new infections climbing past 10,000 this week and a record 720 deaths so far this month, hospital admissions continue to rise. The B.1.1.7 variant, first detected in the UK during the autumn, is tied to at least 40 per cent of new infections and the government estimates it will account for the vast majority of new infections by March.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 22, 2021, 07:30:24 AM
It's still nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2021, 07:35:17 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 22, 2021, 07:25:06 AM
That first statement is nonsense seafoid. If locked down properly then any variant has less places to go.

In London during the last lockdown cases of the original variant fell.while cases of the English variant actually increased. So the lockdown wasn't strict enough.

Lockdown does not mean zero social contact.

https://ft.com/content/a0bef737-c763-447a-b1f3-0649dc5989a0...

"Scientists say two aspects of B.1.1.7 give cause for concern. One is the unprecedented number of mutations it carries. The other is the speed with which it is supplanting other strains of the Sars-Cov-2 virus in south-east England

The increased infectivity of the variant is illustrated by the fact that, after appearing in Kent on September 20, it was responsible for 28 per cent of infections in London by early November and 62 per cent in the week ending December 9.
Computer modelling suggests that it is 70 % more transmissible than other Sars-Cov-2 strains circulating in the UK and raises the R value by 0.4, which makes the epidemic far harder to control without stringent lockdown measures. "


What % of infections in NI are B.1.1.7?
It means more restrictive lockdowns.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2021, 07:42:59 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/20/tier-4-may-not-enough-contain-covid-mutations/

Cases of the new mutation of Covid grew "exponentially" during the November lockdown, minutes from the Government's Nervtag committee reveal, in papers which suggest Tier 4 measures may not be able to stop its march.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 22, 2021, 07:58:01 AM
Given I live through it I do know what a lockdown means. Cutting social contact down equals less spread London variant or not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on January 22, 2021, 08:47:38 AM
Why do they put dates on 'lockdowns'? I think I would prefer if they were to say, that measures will be reduced when; hospital admissions are x, R rate is x, Intensive care in patients are x...etc.

At least that way we can all see how we are tracking towards relaxation.

This craic of 1 'lockdown' rolling in to another is soul destroying.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on January 22, 2021, 08:58:18 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on January 22, 2021, 08:47:38 AM
Why do they put dates on 'lockdowns'? I think I would prefer if they were to say, that measures will be reduced when; hospital admissions are x, R rate is x, Intensive care in patients are x...etc.

At least that way we can all see how we are tracking towards relaxation.

This craic of 1 'lockdown' rolling in to another is soul destroying.
Something like that would at least be a daily reminder to ever that their actions contribute to the R number but we would have those who shrug their shoulders and say it's not getting better so I am giving up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 22, 2021, 09:02:05 AM
I would fully agree with this. I actually think their lockdowns should be data driven based on hospital load / case load or some kind of factor like that. If we reach this number of cases then x will open, this other number of cases then y will open etc and then everything is clear for everyone.

At the minute the decisions appear a bit arbitrary.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2021, 09:05:55 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on January 22, 2021, 08:47:38 AM
Why do they put dates on 'lockdowns'? I think I would prefer if they were to say, that measures will be reduced when; hospital admissions are x, R rate is x, Intensive care in patients are x...etc.

At least that way we can all see how we are tracking towards relaxation.

This craic of 1 'lockdown' rolling in to another is soul destroying.

1000%

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on January 22, 2021, 09:35:30 AM
Took my Dad in for his first vaccination yesterday.
He got the Astro Zenica one and isn't due to get the second dose till the first week in April, 10 weeks away.

So, if we're being told that the first dose may only offer 30% of immunity based on the figures coming out if Israel and then it takes a further 10 days after the second dose to get the immunity up into the high 90's (this was initially based on the two doses being three weeks apart though) and my Da's circumstances are the norm, then I think we're going to be in lockdowns of one form or another till mid to late April...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on January 22, 2021, 09:43:27 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 22, 2021, 09:35:30 AM
Took my Dad in for his first vaccination yesterday.
He got the Astro Zenica one and isn't due to get the second dose till the first week in April, 10 weeks away.

So, if we're being told that the first dose may only offer 30% of immunity based on the figures coming out if Israel and then it takes a further 10 days after the second dose to get the immunity up into the high 90's (this was initially based on the two doses being three weeks apart though) and my Da's circumstances are the norm, then I think we're going to be in lockdowns of one form or another till mid to late April...
The Israel figure of 30% immunity is based on the Pfizer jab not the AstraZeneca one.  The AstraZeneca one was trialled with a longer break so the data is there for a decent immunity level after the first jab.  It appears as if winging it with a bigger gap between the doses on the Pfizer jab is the wrong call.  They did this without any trial data.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on January 22, 2021, 09:47:55 AM
Quote from: mackers on January 22, 2021, 09:43:27 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 22, 2021, 09:35:30 AM
Took my Dad in for his first vaccination yesterday.
He got the Astro Zenica one and isn't due to get the second dose till the first week in April, 10 weeks away.

So, if we're being told that the first dose may only offer 30% of immunity based on the figures coming out if Israel and then it takes a further 10 days after the second dose to get the immunity up into the high 90's (this was initially based on the two doses being three weeks apart though) and my Da's circumstances are the norm, then I think we're going to be in lockdowns of one form or another till mid to late April...
The Israel figure of 30% immunity is based on the Pfizer jab not the AstraZeneca one.  The AstraZeneca one was trialled with a longer break so the data is there for a decent immunity level after the first jab.  It appears as if winging it with a bigger gap between the doses on the Pfizer jab is the wrong call.  They did this without any trial data.

We are increasing the gap on the pfizer jab too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on January 22, 2021, 09:50:09 AM
Is everyone not going a bit over the top with the Israel data.  The chief scientific officer still seemed pretty confident yesterday leaving it for the 10 -12 weeks.  I know you couldn't trust the politicians as far as you could throw them but surely the top medics and scientists aren't just winging it.

Also if lockdown was based on the numbers in hospital going down to a certain number, say 500 for example.  What happens when they go back up to 510 or 550 or 600 ?  To put an exact number on anything makes life very difficult for the decision makers and as we have inept decision makers surely this wouldn't be a good thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 22, 2021, 09:52:20 AM
Well maybe it's a bit too much but some kind of barometer of why they are making decisions. Then businesses should be able to know. Some kind of transparency of decision making.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 09:54:51 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 22, 2021, 09:52:20 AM
Well maybe it's a bit too much but some kind of barometer of why they are making decisions. Then businesses should be able to know. Some kind of transparency of decision making.

Your common sense has no business in this thread.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 22, 2021, 09:57:06 AM
On another note it is funny(because it's so ridiculous) seeing Foster talking about "if people behave themselves" when one of her chief clowns Sammy Wilson can't even behave himself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on January 22, 2021, 10:01:16 AM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 22, 2021, 09:50:09 AM
Is everyone not going a bit over the top with the Israel data.  The chief scientific officer still seemed pretty confident yesterday leaving it for the 10 -12 weeks.  I know you couldn't trust the politicians as far as you could throw them but surely the top medics and scientists aren't just winging it.

Also if lockdown was based on the numbers in hospital going down to a certain number, say 500 for example.  What happens when they go back up to 510 or 550 or 600 ?  To put an exact number on anything makes life very difficult for the decision makers and as we have inept decision makers surely this wouldn't be a good thing.

The decision yesterday to extend the lockdown which was due to end in 2 weeks by a further 4 weeks is, I assume, based on figures such as those I have proposed. As such surely those can be shared.

I would have thought, using your example, that it could be something like; Inpatients - 500, IC Inpatients - 20, R Rate - 0.5 (plus what ever other parameters are relevant) = Open non essential retail etc (Numbers have no basis whatsoever btw)

There could then be a further set of numbers for schools, gyms, cafes, etc
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 10:04:28 AM
That bugs me, not the DUP (well they do), but the blame on the people, all the time.

If you keep blaming the people it only ends one way.

The amount of people I hear daily saying "it's them oul house parties....". Look, of course there are parties going on. But Jesus Christ, just think about it. You would think that every 2nd house in the North was pumping then people just regurgitate that yet your local Tesco is just as "gathered" from open to close and not a word of it because it's allowed.

They have yet to twig that when you stop people doing anything, you force their hand. The next few months will certainly now see compliance plummet to minimal levels.

Yesterday was the same stuff. All our fault, NHS is stretched to limit. Next few weeks are vital. They've said it that often they have given people Covid fatigue.

If they want to drive the message home, seriously, they should do an inside show from inside a ward. Obviously that might prove somewhat tricky considering. But you get the point.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on January 22, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 10:04:28 AM
That bugs me, not the DUP (well they do), but the blame on the people, all the time.

If you keep blaming the people it only ends one way.

The amount of people I hear daily saying "it's them oul house parties....". Look, of course there are parties going on. But Jesus Christ, just think about it. You would think that every 2nd house in the North was pumping then people just regurgitate that yet your local Tesco is just as "gathered" from open to close and not a word of it because it's allowed.

They have yet to twig that when you stop people doing anything, you force their hand. The next few months will certainly now see compliance plummet to minimal levels.

Yesterday was the same stuff. All our fault, NHS is stretched to limit. Next few weeks are vital. They've said it that often they have given people Covid fatigue.

If they want to drive the message home, seriously, they should do an inside show from inside a ward. Obviously that might prove somewhat tricky considering. But you get the point.

Taking the lead from Boris and the lads with that perspective.

By blaming the people it masks the inadequacies of their own handling of this shitshow
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 22, 2021, 10:36:49 AM
Loosening restrictions at Christmas seems crazier & crazier as each day passes. Would we not have been well on our way towards spring re restrictions ending?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 10:56:50 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 22, 2021, 10:36:49 AM
Loosening restrictions at Christmas seems crazier & crazier as each day passes. Would we not have been well on our way towards spring re restrictions ending?

But do we think one week really caused this all? I get that people went mad shopping, of course it was a big week of mixing, but no gastrobars etc were even open where I am.

I get the feeling we are getting a bit of payback from the executive here. The fact they are leaking the bad news to the BBC quite clearly now so that gets a bit of the heat off is all very convenient to me.

I'm aware I'm bordering conspiracy lines, but Jayne McCormack from the BBC is fit to tell us exactly what is happening every day before the executive meets and "makes the decision".  Does anyone else not find that a tad bit strange? Does anything leak from the Southern Govt to anyone? I think it shows just what the NI Executive are, incapable of leadership.

As a fairly complaint member of the public I am exasperated at this stage how they can decide to continue lockdown until March 5th considering there was still 2 weeks until the actual end of this one. I'm not saying open it up, let her rip. But I am saying how can they make that decision so quickly when the same people say one week caused all the bother. It just makes people like me who were sticking to the rules question and become angry at the situation. I'm far from the only one too. We've been in some form of lockdown now in the North from Hallowe'en (including the circuit breaker nonsense). There really seems no end to this. It's massively deflating for me at the moment. I think we are genuinely on the way to something more dangerous in this country.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 22, 2021, 10:59:30 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 10:04:28 AM
That bugs me, not the DUP (well they do), but the blame on the people, all the time.

If you keep blaming the people it only ends one way.

The amount of people I hear daily saying "it's them oul house parties....". Look, of course there are parties going on. But Jesus Christ, just think about it. You would think that every 2nd house in the North was pumping then people just regurgitate that yet your local Tesco is just as "gathered" from open to close and not a word of it because it's allowed.

I haven't been to a party lately, but recalling such things they are nothing like going to Tesco. In Tesco you wear a mask, you may pass people in the aisle but you quickly move on and the whole thing takes 30 mins. The whole idea of a party is to meet people and talk to them, not at all like shopping. So this comparison is bollix.

QuoteThey have yet to twig that when you stop people doing anything, you force their hand. The next few months will certainly now see compliance plummet to minimal levels.

You don't "force their hand", they can just do what needs to be done. People do not drive down one way streets the wrong way because they want to make a point, such things exist for good reason.
All that is needed is a bit of responsibility for a few months, things will be greatly eased in summer in any case.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 11:04:11 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2021, 10:59:30 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 10:04:28 AM
That bugs me, not the DUP (well they do), but the blame on the people, all the time.

If you keep blaming the people it only ends one way.

The amount of people I hear daily saying "it's them oul house parties....". Look, of course there are parties going on. But Jesus Christ, just think about it. You would think that every 2nd house in the North was pumping then people just regurgitate that yet your local Tesco is just as "gathered" from open to close and not a word of it because it's allowed.

I haven't been to a party lately, but recalling such things they are nothing like going to Tesco. In Tesco you wear a mask, you may pass people in the aisle but you quickly move on and the whole thing takes 30 mins. The whole idea of a party is to meet people and talk to them, not at all like shopping. So this comparison is bollix.

QuoteThey have yet to twig that when you stop people doing anything, you force their hand. The next few months will certainly now see compliance plummet to minimal levels.

You don't "force their hand", they can just do what needs to be done. People do not drive down one way streets the wrong way because they want to make a point, such things exist for good reason.
All that is needed is a bit of responsibility for a few months, things will be greatly eased in summer in any case.

I must go to different shops than you. What I see is a meet up.

Same tune from March.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 22, 2021, 11:17:04 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 11:04:11 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2021, 10:59:30 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 10:04:28 AM
That bugs me, not the DUP (well they do), but the blame on the people, all the time.

If you keep blaming the people it only ends one way.

The amount of people I hear daily saying "it's them oul house parties....". Look, of course there are parties going on. But Jesus Christ, just think about it. You would think that every 2nd house in the North was pumping then people just regurgitate that yet your local Tesco is just as "gathered" from open to close and not a word of it because it's allowed.

I haven't been to a party lately, but recalling such things they are nothing like going to Tesco. In Tesco you wear a mask, you may pass people in the aisle but you quickly move on and the whole thing takes 30 mins. The whole idea of a party is to meet people and talk to them, not at all like shopping. So this comparison is bollix.

QuoteThey have yet to twig that when you stop people doing anything, you force their hand. The next few months will certainly now see compliance plummet to minimal levels.

You don't "force their hand", they can just do what needs to be done. People do not drive down one way streets the wrong way because they want to make a point, such things exist for good reason.
All that is needed is a bit of responsibility for a few months, things will be greatly eased in summer in any case.

I must go to different shops than you. What I see is a meet up.

Same tune from March.

Possibly some people do go to shops to meet up, but most do not. Everyone going to a party does so to meet up. But even if someones does exchange pleasantries with another in a shop they probably spend 3 minutes doing that, a party goes on for 4 or 5 hours. It is a question of magnitude.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 11:22:30 AM
Do you hold the belief that house parties are as prevalent as we have been told by the executive, that seems the flat source of blame at the moment?

I drove through a local town last night on my way home from a run and seen about 20 outside one of the Local Fast Food places. Admittedly outside, but surely still 'as bad'?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on January 22, 2021, 11:31:25 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2021, 10:59:30 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 10:04:28 AM
That bugs me, not the DUP (well they do), but the blame on the people, all the time.

If you keep blaming the people it only ends one way.

The amount of people I hear daily saying "it's them oul house parties....". Look, of course there are parties going on. But Jesus Christ, just think about it. You would think that every 2nd house in the North was pumping then people just regurgitate that yet your local Tesco is just as "gathered" from open to close and not a word of it because it's allowed.

I haven't been to a party lately, but recalling such things they are nothing like going to Tesco. In Tesco you wear a mask, you may pass people in the aisle but you quickly move on and the whole thing takes 30 mins. The whole idea of a party is to meet people and talk to them, not at all like shopping. So this comparison is bollix.

QuoteThey have yet to twig that when you stop people doing anything, you force their hand. The next few months will certainly now see compliance plummet to minimal levels.

You don't "force their hand", they can just do what needs to be done. People do not drive down one way streets the wrong way because they want to make a point, such things exist for good reason.
All that is needed is a bit of responsibility for a few months, things will be greatly eased in summer in any case.

In the most part people have been 'responsible' for almost a year now, done 'what needs to be done'. However all we have in return is M McBride and R Swan preaching from the pulpit that we're not doing what we are told.

Is it unreasonable to request clear parameters around the placement and removal of restrictions? So that we can see how far from 'a reward' we are.

Also, I find it particularly frustrating that we have no indication of forward planning, (short of ring the army) as an example, we are seeing daily that certain hospitals are over 100% capacity, while others are not - the north is a small place in the grand scheme of things, can we not move patients around, we don't see the capacity of the nightingale facilities, how are they being used etc.   

I suppose in the most part it's just tough now, not tough in that I've lost my job or lost a family member but just sh*t. I have it good, live in the country (have space), still in gainful employment, great family etc but the weeks still roll in to each other with no sign of a way out as we go from one lockdown to the next.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 22, 2021, 11:39:59 AM
See a small article in today's  UK Times - 'Absence of flu admissions puzzles doctors'. Important bits:
- No UK admissions in first 2 weeks of January
- trend echoed in other parts of world
- in Japan there were 1,000 flu patients in 2nd week of January compared with 800,000 over the same period last year.

WHO stated "This is an extremely puzzling phenomenon. We're in a historic unbelievable situation."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 22, 2021, 11:40:55 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on January 22, 2021, 11:31:25 AM
In the most part people have been 'responsible' for almost a year now, done 'what needs to be done'. However all we have in return is M McBride and R Swan preaching from the pulpit that we're not doing what we are told.

More people have been responsible, but we have all paid a high price for this who have not.

QuoteIs it unreasonable to request clear parameters around the placement and removal of restrictions? So that we can see how far from 'a reward' we are.

You could say that restrictions would be removed when cases were x or whatever. However, it is hard to give definite values for these things, in these islands the whole Christmas thing was derailed by a combination of people pushing the envelope and the arrival of the new variant.

QuoteAlso, I find it particularly frustrating that we have no indication of forward planning, (short of ring the army) as an example, we are seeing daily that certain hospitals are over 100% capacity, while others are not - the north is a small place in the grand scheme of things, can we not move patients around, we don't see the capacity of the nightingale facilities, how are they being used etc.   

I presume they would move patients around if it helped. The Nightingale idea doesn't work because there aren't enough staff to go around, especially as many staff are isolating.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on January 22, 2021, 11:55:03 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2021, 11:40:55 AM
QuoteIs it unreasonable to request clear parameters around the placement and removal of restrictions? So that we can see how far from 'a reward' we are.

You could say that restrictions would be removed when cases were x or whatever. However, it is hard to give definite values for these things, in these islands the whole Christmas thing was derailed by a combination of people pushing the envelope and the arrival of the new variant.

But surely this is exactly what they are doing in the executive - setting parameters, running modelling and then proposing restrictions or not.

Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2021, 11:40:55 AM
QuoteAlso, I find it particularly frustrating that we have no indication of forward planning, (short of ring the army) as an example, we are seeing daily that certain hospitals are over 100% capacity, while others are not - the north is a small place in the grand scheme of things, can we not move patients around, we don't see the capacity of the nightingale facilities, how are they being used etc.

I presume they would move patients around if it helped. The Nightingale idea doesn't work because there aren't enough staff to go around, especially as many staff are isolating.

Would these Nightingale facilities not be the perfect facility for the army if they are to be used. While very poorly delivered I could see some merit in the comment from P Sheehan of SF, it is difficult for an army medic/doctor etc to walk on to a ward with which they are unfamiliar and be highly effective. Could it not be that the Nightingale facilities be developed for those professionals and let them run them (we're told there id further availability)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 22, 2021, 11:57:07 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-payment-500-pounds-positive-selfisolate-b1791015.html%3famp  (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-payment-500-pounds-positive-selfisolate-b1791015.html%3famp)

Whoever floated this idea need shot into space.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 11:58:40 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 22, 2021, 11:57:07 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-payment-500-pounds-positive-selfisolate-b1791015.html%3famp  (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-payment-500-pounds-positive-selfisolate-b1791015.html%3famp)

Whoever floated this idea need shot into space.

Lockdown forever.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 12:00:39 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2021, 11:39:59 AM
See a small article in today's  UK Times - 'Absence of flu admissions puzzles doctors'. Important bits:
- No UK admissions in first 2 weeks of January
- trend echoed in other parts of world
- in Japan there were 1,000 flu patients in 2nd week of January compared with 800,000 over the same period last year.

WHO stated "This is an extremely puzzling phenomenon. We're in a historic unbelievable situation."

Ach look we know what's going on there but it just leads to a flu v covid war on here. Clearly the flu is being recorded as Covid...whilst they are different, they have crossover symptoms.

Alot of people just are afraid to go near hospitals right now....rightly or wrongly, they are saying nothing and getting on with it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 22, 2021, 12:34:37 PM
This is what we're up against

Covid: 400-person wedding party in Stamford Hill broken up by police

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55764673
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyroneman on January 22, 2021, 12:39:17 PM
I would be sceptical about saying 'most' people have been responsible.

A slim majority perhaps.

I see and hear people talking about how deadly covid is, yet don't wear a mask in the local shop, or think they can visit as many people indoors as they like, as long as they are family, or who take wee day trips here there and everywhere, because they can.

They may wash thier hands more often, or 'distance' a couple of feet, or maybe stop visiting friends as often, but I would struggle to say they most people are fully 'responsible' in what they do, becasue there is so little comeback if they don't.

As long as all shops don't stop people entering unless they have a mask, for example, many people will still continue not to bother.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mario on January 22, 2021, 01:19:20 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on January 22, 2021, 12:39:17 PM
I would be sceptical about saying 'most' people have been responsible.

A slim majority perhaps.

I see and hear people talking about how deadly covid is, yet don't wear a mask in the local shop, or think they can visit as many people indoors as they like, as long as they are family, or who take wee day trips here there and everywhere, because they can.

They may wash thier hands more often, or 'distance' a couple of feet, or maybe stop visiting friends as often, but I would struggle to say they most people are fully 'responsible' in what they do, becasue there is so little comeback if they don't.

As long as all shops don't stop people entering unless they have a mask, for example, many people will still continue not to bother.
I live in Belfast and in the past few months 99% of people i see in the supermarket or spar have been wearing masks. If masks are the solution they clearly aren't working like some people have you believe. Complaints about mask wearing compliance are massively exaggerated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2021, 12:34:37 PM
This is what we're up against

Covid: 400-person wedding party in Stamford Hill broken up by police

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55764673

Them oul jews up to no good again!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 22, 2021, 01:39:07 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 11:22:30 AM
Do you hold the belief that house parties are as prevalent as we have been told by the executive, that seems the flat source of blame at the moment?

I drove through a local town last night on my way home from a run and seen about 20 outside one of the Local Fast Food places. Admittedly outside, but surely still 'as bad'?

Yes, house parties are rampant atm. I personally know a crowd of 30/40 something professionals who are holding / attending shabeens once or twice a week. I've a wain of going out age and tonnes of her age are on the batter every weekend.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 22, 2021, 01:43:01 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 12:00:39 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2021, 11:39:59 AM
See a small article in today's  UK Times - 'Absence of flu admissions puzzles doctors'. Important bits:
- No UK admissions in first 2 weeks of January
- trend echoed in other parts of world
- in Japan there were 1,000 flu patients in 2nd week of January compared with 800,000 over the same period last year.

WHO stated "This is an extremely puzzling phenomenon. We're in a historic unbelievable situation."

Ach look we know what's going on there but it just leads to a flu v covid war on here. Clearly the flu is being recorded as Covid...whilst they are different, they have crossover symptoms.

Alot of people just are afraid to go near hospitals right now....rightly or wrongly, they are saying nothing and getting on with it.

Provided those people stay at home until the flu passes then they flu will not circulate.
It may well be that flu is relatively easy to stop compared to Covid as you generally know you have flu if you are capable of infecting others.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 22, 2021, 01:48:35 PM
QuoteI wish guidance on when restrictions might ease was given based on science and not a date.
For example: when the % of positive tests has fallen below x% for 7 days in a row.

I like this kind of idea.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 22, 2021, 02:17:08 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2021, 12:34:37 PM
This is what we're up against

Covid: 400-person wedding party in Stamford Hill broken up by police

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55764673

Them oul jews up to no good again!
I know you're only messing - this will likely be treated with kid gloves exactly because of the political & social hot potato it is - when they should all be punished to the full extent of the law. It'll be interesting to see the papers coverage 2moro.

Jewish leaders have unreservedly condemned it as an act of desecration.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 02:28:21 PM
I was only messing but they have a big problem with the Jews in the states, it runs rampant through that community. They aren't too open to the ideas of social distancing and gatherings. There were many instances in New York during the initial surge they completely ignored it.

I read the article, windows covered etc.....I mean if you didn't laugh you would cry. In a school too, unbelievable.

In instances like this, you'd be in a sweat shop working for Nike in China. Here you are fined a few quid....to some people financial sanction isn't a deterrent. I'd like to be in their shoes, but.....Will it put off the next wealthy family who will 'only' get fined 10k?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2021, 02:40:32 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 12:00:39 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2021, 11:39:59 AM
See a small article in today's  UK Times - 'Absence of flu admissions puzzles doctors'. Important bits:
- No UK admissions in first 2 weeks of January
- trend echoed in other parts of world
- in Japan there were 1,000 flu patients in 2nd week of January compared with 800,000 over the same period last year.

WHO stated "This is an extremely puzzling phenomenon. We're in a historic unbelievable situation."

Ach look we know what's going on there but it just leads to a flu v covid war on here. Clearly the flu is being recorded as Covid...whilst they are different, they have crossover symptoms.

Alot of people just are afraid to go near hospitals right now....rightly or wrongly, they are saying nothing and getting on with it.

Can we not just say that the flu hasn't caught on because the transmission of the flu is harder to catch that covid and that we are isolating (certainly the elderly) a lot better than ever before? I would have thought that was a standard enough to work out

Its been talked about but I don't see how you can confuse the testing for Covid for flu... Unless covid is flu with a much higher load strain, but that would mean that the WHO, and all other bodies got this wrong, meaning, Angelo was right all this time lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 02:53:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2021, 02:40:32 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 22, 2021, 12:00:39 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2021, 11:39:59 AM
See a small article in today's  UK Times - 'Absence of flu admissions puzzles doctors'. Important bits:
- No UK admissions in first 2 weeks of January
- trend echoed in other parts of world
- in Japan there were 1,000 flu patients in 2nd week of January compared with 800,000 over the same period last year.

WHO stated "This is an extremely puzzling phenomenon. We're in a historic unbelievable situation."

Ach look we know what's going on there but it just leads to a flu v covid war on here. Clearly the flu is being recorded as Covid...whilst they are different, they have crossover symptoms.

Alot of people just are afraid to go near hospitals right now....rightly or wrongly, they are saying nothing and getting on with it.

Can we not just say that the flu hasn't caught on because the transmission of the flu is harder to catch that covid and that we are isolating (certainly the elderly) a lot better than ever before? I would have thought that was a standard enough to work out

Its been talked about but I don't see how you can confuse the testing for Covid for flu... Unless covid is flu with a much higher load strain, but that would mean that the WHO, and all other bodies got this wrong, meaning, Angelo was right all this time lol

Ah look I've no idea, but in fairness to Angelo. The Flu hasn't just vanished either. Someone who knows alot more about this type of thing can comment but it does seem.....bizarre.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 22, 2021, 03:02:52 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on January 22, 2021, 12:39:17 PM
I would be sceptical about saying 'most' people have been responsible.

A slim majority perhaps.

I see and hear people talking about how deadly covid is, yet don't wear a mask in the local shop, or think they can visit as many people indoors as they like, as long as they are family, or who take wee day trips here there and everywhere, because they can.

The point is that if you are doing these things then you are acting in a way that will spread Covid among your family and neighbours, any decent person should not wish ill will to these people and shouldn't need the government to coerce them into behaving responsibly.

It is a bit like driving, people may occasionally break technical rules about speed limits etc but still be safe drivers because they have carefully judged when to break the rules. Two people living alone who took a walk outside, 2m apart, would be technically against the rules in the 26 counties, but it is a whole different order of magnitude to visiting several different households indoors when you have also been working in a public place.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 22, 2021, 03:04:53 PM
I can't comment on anywhere else but round where I live I pretty much never see anyone who isn't wearing a mask in shops.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2021, 03:05:19 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 22, 2021, 07:58:01 AM
Given I live through it I do know what a lockdown means. Cutting social contact down equals less spread London variant or not.
Via twitter


Almost 70% of Northern Ireland's #COVID19 infections are with the new variant. It shows the effect of no controls on ports and airports. Today's Office for National Statistics survey report: https://bit.ly/39YJ3zW
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2021, 03:14:32 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 22, 2021, 03:04:53 PM
I can't comment on anywhere else but round where I live I pretty much never see anyone who isn't wearing a mask in shops.

I'm not seeing it much either tbf, and no one is allowed in without a mask either....

But tell me why are there still people in the town center? I know there are still people working in supermarkets and banks, I'm working also, but I'm actually classed as a front line worker (no clapping please) and unable to work from home due to the work I do, but office workers should (if able) work from home, like they did first time around. Coming into town to go shopping/banking is what's getting me, they are actually passing local shops to come into Belfast to shop!!

Getting taxi's, busses or asking friends or family to drive them in while they walk around the ghost town that is the city center just seems daft... I normally at lunch time do a 4k walk, I don't bother now as I don't want to catch anything
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on January 22, 2021, 03:23:45 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on January 22, 2021, 12:39:17 PM
I would be sceptical about saying 'most' people have been responsible.

A slim majority perhaps.

I see and hear people talking about how deadly covid is, yet don't wear a mask in the local shop, or think they can visit as many people indoors as they like, as long as they are family, or who take wee day trips here there and everywhere, because they can.

They may wash thier hands more often, or 'distance' a couple of feet, or maybe stop visiting friends as often, but I would struggle to say they most people are fully 'responsible' in what they do, becasue there is so little comeback if they don't.

As long as all shops don't stop people entering unless they have a mask, for example, many people will still continue not to bother.

Still wondering how a family day trip to a beach, lake or wood spreads Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on January 22, 2021, 03:26:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2021, 03:14:32 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 22, 2021, 03:04:53 PM
I can't comment on anywhere else but round where I live I pretty much never see anyone who isn't wearing a mask in shops.

I'm not seeing it much either tbf, and no one is allowed in without a mask either....

But tell me why are there still people in the town center? I know there are still people working in supermarkets and banks, I'm working also, but I'm actually classed as a front line worker (no clapping please) and unable to work from home due to the work I do, but office workers should (if able) work from home, like they did first time around. Coming into town to go shopping/banking is what's getting me, they are actually passing local shops to come into Belfast to shop!!

Getting taxi's, busses or asking friends or family to drive them in while they walk around the ghost town that is the city center just seems daft... I normally at lunch time do a 4k walk, I don't bother now as I don't want to catch anything

All of the scientific evidence would point to this being highly unlikely MR.

It is safe to exercise as long as you follow the guidelines?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 22, 2021, 03:29:30 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 22, 2021, 03:04:53 PM
I can't comment on anywhere else but round where I live I pretty much never see anyone who isn't wearing a mask in shops.

Go into any working class area in belfast and nobody gives a damn. Staff and customers. I regularly go into my local shop and would maybe be the only person in the shop wearing a mask.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 22, 2021, 03:34:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 22, 2021, 03:05:19 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 22, 2021, 07:58:01 AM
Given I live through it I do know what a lockdown means. Cutting social contact down equals less spread London variant or not.
Via twitter


Almost 70% of Northern Ireland's #COVID19 infections are with the new variant. It shows the effect of no controls on ports and airports. Today's Office for National Statistics survey report: https://bit.ly/39YJ3zW

Not overall just from 11-17 of Jan.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 22, 2021, 03:43:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 22, 2021, 07:19:49 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 22, 2021, 07:05:53 AM
So lockdown in the north continues until March 5th
6 weeks today
Going by the law of averages case numbers likely to be below 200 by then and the r number probably 0.5 so what would be the plan to come out of lockdown?
Add into that potentially 400000 people vaccinated and the flu season coming to an end
Pretty easy to lockdown but no plan to come out

If the North has a high proportion of the new English variant lockdown won't help much.

Also Israel has run into trouble with vacvination after the first dose.  It may be Halloween before things start getting back to normal.

The bit in bold and italics SF. It reads like you're saying the lockdown won't help because we have the English variant. No amount of articles you post to me will change the fact I think that comment is nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 22, 2021, 04:07:37 PM
When might we as a society regain courage to plot a way out of this bind? The constant characterisation of these measures as a "Battle" much like someones battle against cancer, as if Cancer or a virus can be out witted. I am starting to think there is a growing cohort who crave some kind of distopian society where they never have to go outside again and AI taking over all the day to day shit that needs to be done. Being frightened all the time solves nothing and perhaps the attitude of some of the Jewish community mentioned earlier is telling.
In the last 100 years shit has got way more real than we are seeing now and could do so again in the near future. What hope for humanity if we carry on like this.
Just for the record, I am not  COvid denier/ anti Mask etc. and have been broadly compliant all the way through this but where has courage, resolve and thirst for life gone. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 22, 2021, 04:44:51 PM
Quote from: Last Man on January 22, 2021, 04:07:37 PM
When might we as a society regain courage to plot a way out of this bind? The constant characterisation of these measures as a "Battle" much like someones battle against cancer, as if Cancer or a virus can be out witted. I am starting to think there is a growing cohort who crave some kind of distopian society where they never have to go outside again and AI taking over all the day to day shit that needs to be done. Being frightened all the time solves nothing and perhaps the attitude of some of the Jewish community mentioned earlier is telling.
In the last 100 years shit has got way more real than we are seeing now and could do so again in the near future. What hope for humanity if we carry on like this.
Just for the record, I am not  COvid denier/ anti Mask etc. and have been broadly compliant all the way through this but where has courage, resolve and thirst for life gone.

If you have a dangerous virus in circulation where a vaccine will be distributed in a few months then battening down the hatches for that period is a rational response, this carry on in England is impatience and not a question of courage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 22, 2021, 06:07:53 PM
Now saying the summer before restrictions are lifted in the uk
Sweet Christ
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 22, 2021, 06:12:24 PM
Quote from: Last Man on January 22, 2021, 04:07:37 PM
When might we as a society regain courage to plot a way out of this bind? The constant characterisation of these measures as a "Battle" much like someones battle against cancer, as if Cancer or a virus can be out witted. I am starting to think there is a growing cohort who crave some kind of distopian society where they never have to go outside again and AI taking over all the day to day shit that needs to be done. Being frightened all the time solves nothing and perhaps the attitude of some of the Jewish community mentioned earlier is telling.
In the last 100 years shit has got way more real than we are seeing now and could do so again in the near future. What hope for humanity if we carry on like this.
Just for the record, I am not  COvid denier/ anti Mask etc. and have been broadly compliant all the way through this but where has courage, resolve and thirst for life gone.
Many diseases have indeed been outwitted. It's called science. Science is outwitting and will outwit this one too. Science uses human intelligence, human wit.

Who exactly craves a dystopian society? Is it not the case that there is a cohort who want to imagine others as craving a dystopian society? Why do they do this? Is it a coping strategy to mask their lack of the courage and resolve needed to maintain restrictions that are there for the benefit of all of us?

Who lacks a thirst for life? Those who are able to deal with lockdown? Hardly. Things are a bit shit, but there are things you can do to make the best of it. Those who are unable to deal with lockdown? Hardly. I would not denigrate anybody for feeling down at this time, or any other time for that matter.

Why are restrictions in place? Because most people want to live, and don't want to die, and are prepared to put up with incovenience in the hope they will not fall victim to this pandemic.

A virus is not an enemy, it is an inanimate thing that has no feeling. You cannot "give in to it" or "not give in to it", the virus doesn't care. It is not a war enemy. Society can only deal with it by a combination of science and physical distancing.

Why are people frightened? Are they wrong to be frightened?

But is not courage and resolve exactly what we need to get through this time? And not denial? And how is fear incompatible with courage and resolve?

What hope is there for humanity if we don't react in a way which tries to protect people at this time? If we didn't impose restrictions at this time, what would that say about humanity?





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 22, 2021, 06:13:20 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 22, 2021, 06:07:53 PM
Now saying the summer before restrictions are lifted in the uk
Sweet Christ
The rational response now is elimination, not temporary suppression.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 22, 2021, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 22, 2021, 06:07:53 PM
Now saying the summer before restrictions are lifted in the uk
Sweet Christ

No surprise. Forget about planning anything for 2021, as this year will be a write off.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2021, 06:47:54 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on January 22, 2021, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 22, 2021, 06:07:53 PM
Now saying the summer before restrictions are lifted in the uk
Sweet Christ

No surprise. Forget about planning anything for 2021, as this year will be a write off.

I'm planning on doing moonshine!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 22, 2021, 06:59:40 PM
Booked a cycling trip to Majorca in October, definitely think it'll  go ahead in a restricted sorta way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 22, 2021, 07:07:12 PM
Good improvements on the case load in ROI. Seven day average is 2538 cases per day. Just 12 days ago the average was 6539.

The amount of people currently hospitalised is a similar number to last weekend so hopefully that means we have seen a peak and hospital figures will decrease.

Reported deaths is just 3 off last week with 2 days to go. The damage of having 6k weekly cases is seen there.

Sid Waddell condolences to you and your family on the passing of your dad.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 22, 2021, 07:51:32 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 22, 2021, 07:07:12 PM
Good improvements on the case load in ROI. Seven day average is 2538 cases per day. Just 12 days ago the average was 6539.

The amount of people currently hospitalised is a similar number to last weekend so hopefully that means we have seen a peak and hospital figures will decrease.

Reported deaths is just 3 off last week with 2 days to go. The damage of having 6k weekly cases is seen there.

Sid Waddell condolences to you and your family on the passing of your dad.
Thanks and thanks to all other posters who did same. It means a lot even if I don't know you personally. I just watched the last 20 minutes of Dublin v Kerry 1977 in his company, though I can't see him as it's a closed coffin. This is the same match I played the highlights of on my phone for him on Tuesday morning. He died pretty much around the moment I was showing him Bernard Brogan's clinching goal. Think I'll hook up the two 1983 semi-finals against Cork to the telly for him later on, I think these were his favourite Dublin matches ever and they're definitely mine, even though I was too young for them.

Please bear in mind that anything I said about this pandemic before now was borne out of wanting to avoid the nightmare I have experienced over the last few weeks and anything I say in future about it will be borne out of wanting others to avoid that same fate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on January 22, 2021, 07:59:31 PM
Quote from: five points on January 22, 2021, 03:23:45 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on January 22, 2021, 12:39:17 PM
I would be sceptical about saying 'most' people have been responsible.

A slim majority perhaps.

I see and hear people talking about how deadly covid is, yet don't wear a mask in the local shop, or think they can visit as many people indoors as they like, as long as they are family, or who take wee day trips here there and everywhere, because they can.

They may wash thier hands more often, or 'distance' a couple of feet, or maybe stop visiting friends as often, but I would struggle to say they most people are fully 'responsible' in what they do, becasue there is so little comeback if they don't.

As long as all shops don't stop people entering unless they have a mask, for example, many people will still continue not to bother.

Still wondering how a family day trip to a beach, lake or wood spreads Covid?
On its own it doesn't but have you seen some of the crowds gathering at those places.
You could go into work on your own but when other people turn up transmission is more likely to happen.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2021, 08:07:46 PM
Look, the paths on popular walks are very busy, even more so now. I try to get down to mine either first thing (before 9) or at night as the sun goes down.. any other time it's bunged!

Lots walking around with coffee cups! So these people are heading to shops or takeaway coffee joints, which obviously is important  :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 22, 2021, 08:11:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2021, 11:39:59 AM
See a small article in today's  UK Times - 'Absence of flu admissions puzzles doctors'. Important bits:
- No UK admissions in first 2 weeks of January
- trend echoed in other parts of world
- in Japan there were 1,000 flu patients in 2nd week of January compared with 800,000 over the same period last year.

WHO stated "This is an extremely puzzling phenomenon. We're in a historic unbelievable situation."

They serious? If they are then they are retards who should be dismissed from their posts immediately. More than likely its stupid journalists being stupid.


It was flagged on here by several people - none of whom are virologists to my knowledge - several months ago that all the measures in place at the moment would largely eradicate this flu season.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 22, 2021, 08:27:33 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 22, 2021, 08:11:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2021, 11:39:59 AM
See a small article in today's  UK Times - 'Absence of flu admissions puzzles doctors'. Important bits:
- No UK admissions in first 2 weeks of January
- trend echoed in other parts of world
- in Japan there were 1,000 flu patients in 2nd week of January compared with 800,000 over the same period last year.

WHO stated "This is an extremely puzzling phenomenon. We're in a historic unbelievable situation."

They serious? If they are then they are retards who should be dismissed from their posts immediately. More than likely its stupid journalists being stupid.


It was flagged on here by several people - none of whom are virologists to my knowledge - several months ago that all the measures in place at the moment would largely eradicate this flu season.

It was a 20 line small article, quoting stuff from an original article in the Wall Street Journal - paywall but the the paragraph gives you the jist

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-has-nearly-wiped-out-the-fluhow-do-we-keep-it-from-coming-back-11611230410
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 22, 2021, 09:25:59 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2021, 08:27:33 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 22, 2021, 08:11:31 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2021, 11:39:59 AM
See a small article in today's  UK Times - 'Absence of flu admissions puzzles doctors'. Important bits:
- No UK admissions in first 2 weeks of January
- trend echoed in other parts of world
- in Japan there were 1,000 flu patients in 2nd week of January compared with 800,000 over the same period last year.

WHO stated "This is an extremely puzzling phenomenon. We're in a historic unbelievable situation."

They serious? If they are then they are retards who should be dismissed from their posts immediately. More than likely its stupid journalists being stupid.


It was flagged on here by several people - none of whom are virologists to my knowledge - several months ago that all the measures in place at the moment would largely eradicate this flu season.

It was a 20 line small article, quoting stuff from an original article in the Wall Street Journal - paywall but the the paragraph gives you the jist

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-has-nearly-wiped-out-the-fluhow-do-we-keep-it-from-coming-back-11611230410

Ah, unfortunately not enough around that quote to know the context.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 22, 2021, 10:43:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 22, 2021, 07:51:32 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 22, 2021, 07:07:12 PM
Good improvements on the case load in ROI. Seven day average is 2538 cases per day. Just 12 days ago the average was 6539.

The amount of people currently hospitalised is a similar number to last weekend so hopefully that means we have seen a peak and hospital figures will decrease.

Reported deaths is just 3 off last week with 2 days to go. The damage of having 6k weekly cases is seen there.

Sid Waddell condolences to you and your family on the passing of your dad.
Thanks and thanks to all other posters who did same. It means a lot even if I don't know you personally. I just watched the last 20 minutes of Dublin v Kerry 1977 in his company, though I can't see him as it's a closed coffin. This is the same match I played the highlights of on my phone for him on Tuesday morning. He died pretty much around the moment I was showing him Bernard Brogan's clinching goal. Think I'll hook up the two 1983 semi-finals against Cork to the telly for him later on, I think these were his favourite Dublin matches ever and they're definitely mine, even though I was too young for them.

Please bear in mind that anything I said about this pandemic before now was borne out of wanting to avoid the nightmare I have experienced over the last few weeks and anything I say in future about it will be borne out of wanting others to avoid that same fate.

Sorry for your loss, sid. My condolences.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 22, 2021, 11:52:14 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 22, 2021, 06:59:40 PM
Booked a cycling trip to Majorca in October, definitely think it'll  go ahead in a restricted sorta way.

Drove through the mountains of Majorca a few years back. The amount of cyclists about was incredible. I'd love to spend a week cycling around the island. Some spot
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 23, 2021, 10:25:17 AM
Massive news coming out of Israel

60% reduction in infections amongst 60+ years old 13-21 after the first vaccine dose
Great news and seems doesn't start to kick in until day 13

Premature findings last week didn't take place after day 12

Massive massive news

It really does take time
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 23, 2021, 10:44:38 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 23, 2021, 10:25:17 AM
Massive news coming out of Israel

60% reduction in infections amongst 60+ years old 13-21 after the first vaccine dose
Great news and seems doesn't start to kick in until day 13

Premature findings last week didn't take place after day 12

Massive massive news

It really does take time

you must be on some rollercoaster with your propensity to rush to judgement and jump to conclusions
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 23, 2021, 12:09:11 PM
Seems that Rossfan's beloved WHO have one of their main men up on genocide charges.

Now it begins to make sense.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/who-chief-tedros-adhanom-ghebreyesus-may-face-genocide-charges-2fbfz7sff
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 23, 2021, 03:39:47 PM
Why does the bbc say there is a predicted surge in coronavirus cases this weekend? I had thought we were post surge. What would cause this surge?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 23, 2021, 04:20:04 PM
Northern Ireland's vaccination numbers have dropped dramatically this past 7 days
We had numbers up to 12000 per day last week this week in around the 5000 per day now down to 3000. A new batch arrived Thursday and another this Thursday
Knew they would fuk this up too
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 23, 2021, 04:43:08 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 23, 2021, 04:20:04 PM
Northern Ireland's vaccination numbers have dropped dramatically this past 7 days
We had numbers up to 12000 per day last week this week in around the 5000 per day now down to 3000. A new batch arrived Thursday and another this Thursday
Knew they would fuk this up too

Oxford AZ have cut their intended supplies to the EU by 60% as well so presumably that's the issue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 23, 2021, 04:45:33 PM
Robbie stated we got 80000 on Thursday and the same next Thursday
England only starting to ramp up whilst we go backwards
Was predictable with the clowns running the place
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on January 23, 2021, 04:51:00 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 23, 2021, 12:09:11 PM
Seems that Rossfan's beloved WHO have one of their main men up on genocide charges.

Now it begins to make sense.


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/who-chief-tedros-adhanom-ghebreyesus-may-face-genocide-charges-2fbfz7sff

Yup, it begs the question: who's in the WHO? Dodgy f**kers, that's who.

I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2021, 05:02:20 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 23, 2021, 04:45:33 PM
Robbie stated we got 80000 on Thursday and the same next Thursday
England only starting to ramp up whilst we go backwards
Was predictable with the clowns running the place

You're all over the place, started with they'll f**k it up, no I'm wrong we are brilliant, to nah they've fucked it up!

Calm down lad, you'll give yourself an aneurysm
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on January 23, 2021, 05:04:55 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 23, 2021, 03:39:47 PM
Why does the bbc say there is a predicted surge in coronavirus cases this weekend? I had thought we were post surge. What would cause this surge?
One surge Christmas, other New Year parties - possibly?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 23, 2021, 05:47:07 PM
Not sure. I just didn't think another surge was expected so was surprised and just wondering if it is a bit sensationalised.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2021, 05:53:19 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 23, 2021, 05:47:07 PM
Not sure. I just didn't think another surge was expected so was surprised and just wondering if it is a bit sensationalised.

Three weeks since new year, possible sensationalism but what's the hospitalised time frame from catching it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 23, 2021, 06:17:10 PM
I thought generally it was two weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 23, 2021, 06:54:50 PM
The south have totally lost it in nursing homes
Median age of death 85 today
Outbreaks in nursing homes doubling
Concerning
Very concerning
70% of this weeks deaths all in nursing homes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 23, 2021, 07:44:41 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 23, 2021, 05:04:55 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 23, 2021, 03:39:47 PM
Why does the bbc say there is a predicted surge in coronavirus cases this weekend? I had thought we were post surge. What would cause this surge?
One surge Christmas, other New Year parties - possibly?

The surge is in hospitalisations. Based of infection rates 2-3 weeks ago. An issue with this disease is that people can manage symptoms for days or even weeks then suddenly take really poorly and require hospitalisation.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 23, 2021, 08:03:01 PM
Ah ok - makes sense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 23, 2021, 08:58:42 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 23, 2021, 06:54:50 PM
The south have totally lost it in nursing homes
Median age of death 85 today
Outbreaks in nursing homes doubling
Concerning
Very concerning
70% of this weeks deaths all in nursing homes

Ah sure they can blame the general public for it......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2021, 09:02:14 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 23, 2021, 06:54:50 PM
The south have totally lost it in nursing homes
Median age of death 85 today
Outbreaks in nursing homes doubling
Concerning
Very concerning
70% of this weeks deaths all in nursing homes

Are you talking to yourself?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 24, 2021, 09:56:13 AM
https://www.ft.com/content/1c7266b1-1fad-458e-8585-12dc3164fdce

Another two years of this? If anything, that is optimistic, according to Stephen Tang, chief executive of OraSure Technologies, a rival diagnostics company. "The need to have tests available to continue to test for Covid-19 will last well beyond 2022, certainly in the sophisticated economies," said Mr Tang. "And then for the low- and middle-income countries, perhaps well into 2027 or 2030, unfortunately. But I think that's the state of play for this virus and the world populations."


Perhaps there is more cheer to be found from the vaccine makers, the companies transformed in the public imagination from greedy patent exploiters to the saviours of humankind. The extraordinary achievements of the likes of BioNTech, Pfizer, Moderna, Oxford university and AstraZeneca surely offer a speedy return to normality? Not so fast. "We know that it's changing and whether it's changing a little or a lot, that is something that we're anticipating," said Angela Hwang, a Pfizer executive, pondering the virus's ability to mutate

. "So we may be in a place where we may need a new vaccine."  The current crop, despite their remarkable development speed and efficacy, are vulnerable to being rendered useless. Scientists expect a mutant strain to escape their grip. Pharmaceutical companies are confident they can respond but that requires adapting the vaccines, winning regulatory approval (ideally without another set of full-blown trials) and ramping up manufacturing all over again.  Recommended Coronavirus treatment Vaccine makers prepare for game of Covid cat and mouse In a positive scenario, this becomes as smooth as the annual flu vaccines, or an inoculation for all strains is developed. In a worst case, we are always a step behind the evolving virus.

Even if vaccines can deal with variants, there is a huge selection of the population ineligible for current vaccines, an impediment to herd immunity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 24, 2021, 11:43:45 AM
Loads of speculation in that whole post, let's just wait and see
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 24, 2021, 12:43:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 24, 2021, 09:56:13 AM
"So we may be in a place where we may need a new vaccine."  The current crop, despite their remarkable development speed and efficacy, are vulnerable to being rendered useless.

Look - the likelihood of a mutation for vaccine escape is a direct function of the number of mutations, which is itself a direct function of the number of virus in existence, which is of course, dependent on the number of people infected and the number of people they infect etc etc.

That's why the behaviours of the likes of the USA, Brazil and UK have been so utterly irresponsible. The latter two have proved fertile breeding grounds for the virus to the point significant mutations were almost inevitable. The former? Well, their public health organisations have been effectively neutered (until last Wednesday), so there is no idea how many strains have developed in the USA.

The developing world is another problem, the South African health system (and its far from the worst) would never be able to cope - the same is true elsewhere - so it was incumbent on the strong nations of the world to manage their own houses to the point they could help those that couldn't help themselves.


Anyway, point being, when the vaccines start to drive down infection rates, they also drive down the very numbers that would otherwise lead to a more likely vaccine escape.

Its a global problem, and that will - in the end - need a global solution - otherwise the amount of virus reproducing will lead to vaccine escape at some point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 24, 2021, 01:21:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 24, 2021, 12:43:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 24, 2021, 09:56:13 AM
"So we may be in a place where we may need a new vaccine."  The current crop, despite their remarkable development speed and efficacy, are vulnerable to being rendered useless.

Look - the likelihood of a mutation for vaccine escape is a direct function of the number of mutations, which is itself a direct function of the number of virus in existence, which is of course, dependent on the number of people infected and the number of people they infect etc etc.

That's why the behaviours of the likes of the USA, Brazil and UK have been so utterly irresponsible. The latter two have proved fertile breeding grounds for the virus to the point significant mutations were almost inevitable. The former? Well, their public health organisations have been effectively neutered (until last Wednesday), so there is no idea how many strains have developed in the USA.

The developing world is another problem, the South African health system (and its far from the worst) would never be able to cope - the same is true elsewhere - so it was incumbent on the strong nations of the world to manage their own houses to the point they could help those that couldn't help themselves.


Anyway, point being, when the vaccines start to drive down infection rates, they also drive down the very numbers that would otherwise lead to a more likely vaccine escape.

Its a global problem, and that will - in the end - need a global solution - otherwise the amount of virus reproducing will lead to vaccine escape at some point.

A couple of pieces of potential very positive news in the last few days. First a company in America has a designed a way to produce a vaccine in a pill. It has to go through the usual human trials but initial results were very good. That would be a total game changer in terms of getting a population vaccinated. It'll be towards the end of 2021 before it would be in general use if all goes well. Today I read of a nasal spray which is 99.9% effective in stopping the virus. You use it every second day. It could be ready by the summer. If people were able to use that it would go a long way to getting us back to some kind of normality.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 24, 2021, 01:35:23 PM
The same way they told us once the top 4 priority groups are vaccinated things would return to normal
Oh wait
Lockdown until the summer
The narrative keeps changing
15th of February is the day top 4 vaccinated once then a 14 day wait
Nothing will be lifted in the next date
It's a one fit suits all
Why can't the government be a bit more sensible
Like so
Do outdoor sports transmit the virus. HIGHLY UNLIKELY . Ok let's open plus it helps health and well-being
Do pubs transmit. YES. Ok keep those close until after Easter
Do school kids. Well a bit. Right let's go for after St Patrick's Day
What about gyms? Not likely. OK let's open strict protocols in all gyms
What about retail. Well let's say any you can enter straight from the street. Let's open them April
Right let's look at indoor gatherings. Yes likely. Ok let's keep that restriction in place no visitors

But no

It's all lockdown continues
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on January 24, 2021, 01:35:38 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 24, 2021, 01:21:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 24, 2021, 12:43:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 24, 2021, 09:56:13 AM
"So we may be in a place where we may need a new vaccine."  The current crop, despite their remarkable development speed and efficacy, are vulnerable to being rendered useless.

Look - the likelihood of a mutation for vaccine escape is a direct function of the number of mutations, which is itself a direct function of the number of virus in existence, which is of course, dependent on the number of people infected and the number of people they infect etc etc.

That's why the behaviours of the likes of the USA, Brazil and UK have been so utterly irresponsible. The latter two have proved fertile breeding grounds for the virus to the point significant mutations were almost inevitable. The former? Well, their public health organisations have been effectively neutered (until last Wednesday), so there is no idea how many strains have developed in the USA.

The developing world is another problem, the South African health system (and its far from the worst) would never be able to cope - the same is true elsewhere - so it was incumbent on the strong nations of the world to manage their own houses to the point they could help those that couldn't help themselves.


Anyway, point being, when the vaccines start to drive down infection rates, they also drive down the very numbers that would otherwise lead to a more likely vaccine escape.

Its a global problem, and that will - in the end - need a global solution - otherwise the amount of virus reproducing will lead to vaccine escape at some point.

A couple of pieces of potential very positive news in the last few days. First a company in America has a designed a way to produce a vaccine in a pill. It has to go through the usual human trials but initial results were very good. That would be a total game changer in terms of getting a population vaccinated. It'll be towards the end of 2021 before it would be in general use if all goes well. Today I read of a nasal spray which is 99.9% effective in stopping the virus. You use it every second day. It could be ready by the summer. If people were able to use that it would go a long way to getting us back to some kind of normality.

In all these discussions, the small print is always looking 6 months down the line.

Positive I know but a good way away.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 24, 2021, 02:20:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 24, 2021, 01:35:23 PM
The same way they told us once the top 4 priority groups are vaccinated things would return to normal
Oh wait
Lockdown until the summer
The narrative keeps changing
15th of February is the day top 4 vaccinated once then a 14 day wait
Nothing will be lifted in the next date
It's a one fit suits all
Why can't the government be a bit more sensible
Like so
Do outdoor sports transmit the virus. HIGHLY UNLIKELY . Ok let's open plus it helps health and well-being
Do pubs transmit. YES. Ok keep those close until after Easter
Do school kids. Well a bit. Right let's go for after St Patrick's Day
What about gyms? Not likely. OK let's open strict protocols in all gyms
What about retail. Well let's say any you can enter straight from the street. Let's open them April
Right let's look at indoor gatherings. Yes likely. Ok let's keep that restriction in place no visitors

But no

It's all lockdown continues

The first 2 phases aren't 100% complete yet Smurfy.
Once we get down to starting in the over 60s, we should be in a much better place
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 24, 2021, 02:28:12 PM
433 cases in the north. Down a good bit but less testing at weekends. The inpatients number looks to be dropping and is below 800 for the first time in a long time. 14 more deaths :(

Smurfy it will be a long time before we see normality again. The tail end of the year before some normality I would expect. That is some and not all. I doubt many of us will see the inside of a bar for the guts of this year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 24, 2021, 02:29:13 PM
Quote from: marty34 on January 24, 2021, 01:35:38 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 24, 2021, 01:21:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 24, 2021, 12:43:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 24, 2021, 09:56:13 AM
"So we may be in a place where we may need a new vaccine."  The current crop, despite their remarkable development speed and efficacy, are vulnerable to being rendered useless.

Look - the likelihood of a mutation for vaccine escape is a direct function of the number of mutations, which is itself a direct function of the number of virus in existence, which is of course, dependent on the number of people infected and the number of people they infect etc etc.

That's why the behaviours of the likes of the USA, Brazil and UK have been so utterly irresponsible. The latter two have proved fertile breeding grounds for the virus to the point significant mutations were almost inevitable. The former? Well, their public health organisations have been effectively neutered (until last Wednesday), so there is no idea how many strains have developed in the USA.

The developing world is another problem, the South African health system (and its far from the worst) would never be able to cope - the same is true elsewhere - so it was incumbent on the strong nations of the world to manage their own houses to the point they could help those that couldn't help themselves.


Anyway, point being, when the vaccines start to drive down infection rates, they also drive down the very numbers that would otherwise lead to a more likely vaccine escape.

Its a global problem, and that will - in the end - need a global solution - otherwise the amount of virus reproducing will lead to vaccine escape at some point.

A couple of pieces of potential very positive news in the last few days. First a company in America has a designed a way to produce a vaccine in a pill. It has to go through the usual human trials but initial results were very good. That would be a total game changer in terms of getting a population vaccinated. It'll be towards the end of 2021 before it would be in general use if all goes well. Today I read of a nasal spray which is 99.9% effective in stopping the virus. You use it every second day. It could be ready by the summer. If people were able to use that it would go a long way to getting us back to some kind of normality.

In all these discussions, the small print is always looking 6 months down the line.

Positive I know but a good way away.

I'm not gonna disagree. It's very disappointing that it's all so slow. We'd all love to have an end date when we could look forward to getting back to the pub or out for a meal. The way I view it though is that the more people comply the quicker we get back to normal. It's a while away yet though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 24, 2021, 02:34:23 PM
Tommygun why do you think that?

The whole point of the vaccination is to protect lives and allow people to live theirs

There is no point vaccination if society doesn't start to reopen

What is the point of vaccination if we don't start the road to recover?

I'm not saying open all up

Slowly release us

House arrest
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 24, 2021, 02:38:08 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 24, 2021, 02:29:13 PM
Quote from: marty34 on January 24, 2021, 01:35:38 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 24, 2021, 01:21:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 24, 2021, 12:43:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 24, 2021, 09:56:13 AM
"So we may be in a place where we may need a new vaccine."  The current crop, despite their remarkable development speed and efficacy, are vulnerable to being rendered useless.

Look - the likelihood of a mutation for vaccine escape is a direct function of the number of mutations, which is itself a direct function of the number of virus in existence, which is of course, dependent on the number of people infected and the number of people they infect etc etc.

That's why the behaviours of the likes of the USA, Brazil and UK have been so utterly irresponsible. The latter two have proved fertile breeding grounds for the virus to the point significant mutations were almost inevitable. The former? Well, their public health organisations have been effectively neutered (until last Wednesday), so there is no idea how many strains have developed in the USA.

The developing world is another problem, the South African health system (and its far from the worst) would never be able to cope - the same is true elsewhere - so it was incumbent on the strong nations of the world to manage their own houses to the point they could help those that couldn't help themselves.


Anyway, point being, when the vaccines start to drive down infection rates, they also drive down the very numbers that would otherwise lead to a more likely vaccine escape.

Its a global problem, and that will - in the end - need a global solution - otherwise the amount of virus reproducing will lead to vaccine escape at some point.

A couple of pieces of potential very positive news in the last few days. First a company in America has a designed a way to produce a vaccine in a pill. It has to go through the usual human trials but initial results were very good. That would be a total game changer in terms of getting a population vaccinated. It'll be towards the end of 2021 before it would be in general use if all goes well. Today I read of a nasal spray which is 99.9% effective in stopping the virus. You use it every second day. It could be ready by the summer. If people were able to use that it would go a long way to getting us back to some kind of normality.

In all these discussions, the small print is always looking 6 months down the line.

Positive I know but a good way away.

I'm not gonna disagree. It's very disappointing that it's all so slow. We'd all love to have an end date when we could look forward to getting back to the pub or out for a meal. The way I view it though is that the more people comply the quicker we get back to normal. It's a while away yet though.
Agreed Lenny. Was out at the mini supermarket earlier. A couple of complete hallions walking about without masks on glaring at any body that looked at them. I walked out behind them and they got into a Foyle Prevention Team vehicle. You couldn't make it up


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 24, 2021, 02:42:00 PM
But we keep changing the narrative
3 months ago it was the vaccine
Now a magic tablet
The cases are as low as they have been for months
Hospital beds have dropped almost 200 in 10 days
Yes we have people who still fuk the rules
But 95% of people don't
Roads are basically empty compared to normal
We will always get someone firing out a picture of cars on roads
Embarrassing really
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 24, 2021, 02:43:30 PM
It isn't going to happen overnight smurfy plus I don't think a good decision has been made on the gap between the two vaccines and there is going to have to be some revisiting.

Our health service is under serious pressure currently. I don't think going back to normality can even be considered until there is some level of control there.

Also with new variants and being unsure how a vaccine will work with them then caution will need to be exercised.

There are still just too many unknowns. How long till the vaccine gets rolled out. Then how many demographics get it before relaxing restrictions. How long will there be immunity etc.

The government keeps changing the narrative. There are plenty of ones who didn't change from the start and what they said is playing out.

Cases are not low. When below 1000 is a win you are in a bad place.

What do you open first though. Basically the thing is still out of control with too many unknowns.

Stuff will open up over the next month or two at current rate but it is just whether opening it up will keep it in check. If it doesn't it will just be back to square one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: South Laois man on January 24, 2021, 02:43:39 PM
Smurfy, I wouldn't be as pessimistic as Tommygun. Vaccines will get us out of this. We'll be in a lot better place by May/June. Maybe back to normal by September.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 24, 2021, 02:45:30 PM
I don't mean to come across too pessimistic sorry lol. We'll be in a much better place September but I couldn't see it being right back to normal.

North and south the health services are still in dire straits. I don't see how anything can change until that does. (Which it *should*soon hopefully)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on January 24, 2021, 04:37:55 PM
Last week in the north they were predicting that admissions to hospital would double by this weekend. This doesn't appear to have happened or have I got it wrong ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 24, 2021, 04:51:50 PM
Tommy I agree I don't see things bein back to normal until maybe March 2021 but when I say normal I mean having 50000 at a match, I do think that's a year away but what I am saying is some stuff have to start reopening
Outdoor sports
Schools
Gyms
Retail

All above has to be in the conversation

Pubs
Restaurants
Nightclubs
Packed grounds

Al those can wait

That's what I can't understand too. They said this weekend was to be record admissions to hospitals yet we are 200 down? Better methods of treatment??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on January 24, 2021, 04:58:23 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on January 24, 2021, 04:37:55 PM
Last week in the north they were predicting that admissions to hospital would double by this weekend. This doesn't appear to have happened or have I got it wrong ?

That would look to be right, hospital numbers are below 800 for the first time in a while and ICU numbers are going up slightly but not as much as they had anticipated thankfully.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 24, 2021, 05:42:43 PM
I think probably April / post Easter based on rumblings but I would generally agree with considering those things for when they lift lockdowns and bars etc later smurfy.

I wasn't sure why they predicted a surge this weekend tbh.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 24, 2021, 05:53:29 PM
The north all but stopped vaccinating
1700 today out of a total of almost 500000 in the uk
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 24, 2021, 05:57:39 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 24, 2021, 05:53:29 PM
The north all but stopped vaccinating
1700 today out of a total of almost 500000 in the uk

I was there on Thursday, some of our staff on Friday and Saturday! They must be telling fibs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 24, 2021, 05:59:41 PM
And why because u were there they would be telling fibs
U are only one person
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 24, 2021, 06:04:01 PM
Weekly ROI update.

Cases. 14877 (10335 less cases than last week

Reported deaths 365 (97 more than last week)

In hospital 1,931 (3 more than a week ago)
In ICU 218 (23 more than last week)

Good progress on the case load, by next Sunday we'll hopefully have a decrease in deaths and those in hospital.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 24, 2021, 06:04:51 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 24, 2021, 05:59:41 PM
And why because u were there they would be telling fibs
U are only one person

They were queuing around the building and indoors was busy.. but sure, no ones going or it's not happening...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on January 24, 2021, 07:53:03 PM
There is an update on Twitter from DOE saying that the numbers for today and yesterday didn't include GP numbers and would be updated tomorrow.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 24, 2021, 07:55:33 PM
The number of tests looked low. Hospital numbers still down a bit anyway which is positive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 24, 2021, 08:43:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 24, 2021, 01:35:23 PM
The narrative keeps changing

As does the virus.


But yeah, once the higher risk groups are vaccinated - and its clear that the number of infections that lead to both hospital and ICU admissions are under manageable levels - then that discussion can start.

However, remember this - every week of continued drastic measures has a snowball effect on what happens when things are relaxed. Exponential change cuts both ways (growth and decay).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 25, 2021, 09:35:36 AM
A few things haven't changed from the off
The 2 big features of hospitalised people is obesity and age
Unfortunately you can do nothing about age
But you can do a lot about obesity
Remember when Boris Johnstone came out of hospital he kept beating the drum about the nurses telling him obesity was a major driving force in him ending up in hospital and that he was going to really push that message and change the UKS outlook
Guess what
Not a word of it since
I take it we will have a massive spike in covid numbers in 7 days after so many people mixing and moving outside yesterday in the fresh air with all the snow. The amount of people outside was massive. Let's see
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 09:50:25 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 25, 2021, 09:35:36 AM
A few things haven't changed from the off
The 2 big features of hospitalised people is obesity and age
Unfortunately you can do nothing about age
But you can do a lot about obesity
Remember when Boris Johnstone came out of hospital he kept beating the drum about the nurses telling him obesity was a major driving force in him ending up in hospital and that he was going to really push that message and change the UKS outlook
Guess what
Not a word of it since
I take it we will have a massive spike in covid numbers in 7 days after so many people mixing and moving outside yesterday in the fresh air with all the snow. The amount of people outside was massive. Let's see

Surely being outside isn't a problem though? Is it not household visits that have been castigated as the main issue?

The most hidden thing of late is the scandalous spread in hospital settings, the governments are trying to deflect this fact and hide it from the public but huge numbers of ill and sick people who are admitted to hospital for other reasons are then picking up Covid there - that is unacceptable.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 10:46:59 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0123/1191607-coronavirus-numbers/

In a statement, the INMO said that nearly 2,000 healthcare workers have caught Covid-19 over two weeks in outbreaks directly traced to their workplaces.

They said that between 6 and 19 January there have been 5,403 reported healthcare workers infected with the virus, with 1,957 confirmed as having been infected in a healthcare setting.

The union has called for a number of measures, including a national requirement that high-standard FFP2 masks be used in all healthcare settings instead of basic surgical masks.

It is also calling for the distance between beds to be increased from 1 metre to 2m and for regular testing for all staff in healthcare settings on a rolling basis.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 25, 2021, 02:18:02 PM
Bojo now saying that they are going to take a look at lifting some restrictions as early as the 15th of February
You actually could not make this stuff up
Was Easter only 2 days ago now it's 2 weeks and some stuff may be lifted
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 10:46:59 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0123/1191607-coronavirus-numbers/

In a statement, the INMO said that nearly 2,000 healthcare workers have caught Covid-19 over two weeks in outbreaks directly traced to their workplaces.

They said that between 6 and 19 January there have been 5,403 reported healthcare workers infected with the virus, with 1,957 confirmed as having been infected in a healthcare setting.

The union has called for a number of measures, including a national requirement that high-standard FFP2 masks be used in all healthcare settings instead of basic surgical masks.

It is also calling for the distance between beds to be increased from 1 metre to 2m and for regular testing for all staff in healthcare settings on a rolling basis.

Who'd have thought it, those that work with the people infected with covid would catch it in their workplace. Crazy stat

Just shows you, no one was prepared for this pandemic... Not even the health care workers paid to deal with it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 02:32:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 10:46:59 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0123/1191607-coronavirus-numbers/

In a statement, the INMO said that nearly 2,000 healthcare workers have caught Covid-19 over two weeks in outbreaks directly traced to their workplaces.

They said that between 6 and 19 January there have been 5,403 reported healthcare workers infected with the virus, with 1,957 confirmed as having been infected in a healthcare setting.

The union has called for a number of measures, including a national requirement that high-standard FFP2 masks be used in all healthcare settings instead of basic surgical masks.

It is also calling for the distance between beds to be increased from 1 metre to 2m and for regular testing for all staff in healthcare settings on a rolling basis.

Who'd have thought it, those that work with the people infected with covid would catch it in their workplace. Crazy stat

Just shows you, no one was prepared for this pandemic... Not even the health care workers paid to deal with it.

Who'd have thought it?

The union has called for a number of measures, including a national requirement that high-standard FFP2 masks be used in all healthcare settings instead of basic surgical masks.

It is also calling for the distance between beds to be increased from 1 metre to 2m and for regular testing for all staff in healthcare settings on a rolling basis.

The Unions are laying the blame straight at their bosses in terms of resources and equipment for the spread in hospitals. It's a scandal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 02:57:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 02:32:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 10:46:59 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0123/1191607-coronavirus-numbers/

In a statement, the INMO said that nearly 2,000 healthcare workers have caught Covid-19 over two weeks in outbreaks directly traced to their workplaces.

They said that between 6 and 19 January there have been 5,403 reported healthcare workers infected with the virus, with 1,957 confirmed as having been infected in a healthcare setting.

The union has called for a number of measures, including a national requirement that high-standard FFP2 masks be used in all healthcare settings instead of basic surgical masks.

It is also calling for the distance between beds to be increased from 1 metre to 2m and for regular testing for all staff in healthcare settings on a rolling basis.

Who'd have thought it, those that work with the people infected with covid would catch it in their workplace. Crazy stat

Just shows you, no one was prepared for this pandemic... Not even the health care workers paid to deal with it.

Who'd have thought it?

The union has called for a number of measures, including a national requirement that high-standard FFP2 masks be used in all healthcare settings instead of basic surgical masks.

It is also calling for the distance between beds to be increased from 1 metre to 2m and for regular testing for all staff in healthcare settings on a rolling basis.

The Unions are laying the blame straight at their bosses in terms of resources and equipment for the spread in hospitals. It's a scandal.

There is no problem laying the blame at the shortfall of proper PPE for this, the problem is that the government was ill prepared in carrying out its own acclaimed prevention methods for a pandemic!

Head in the sand.. Hopefully they will have their ass's handed to them in the next election
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 03:05:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 02:57:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 02:32:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 10:46:59 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0123/1191607-coronavirus-numbers/

In a statement, the INMO said that nearly 2,000 healthcare workers have caught Covid-19 over two weeks in outbreaks directly traced to their workplaces.

They said that between 6 and 19 January there have been 5,403 reported healthcare workers infected with the virus, with 1,957 confirmed as having been infected in a healthcare setting.

The union has called for a number of measures, including a national requirement that high-standard FFP2 masks be used in all healthcare settings instead of basic surgical masks.

It is also calling for the distance between beds to be increased from 1 metre to 2m and for regular testing for all staff in healthcare settings on a rolling basis.

Who'd have thought it, those that work with the people infected with covid would catch it in their workplace. Crazy stat

Just shows you, no one was prepared for this pandemic... Not even the health care workers paid to deal with it.

Who'd have thought it?

The union has called for a number of measures, including a national requirement that high-standard FFP2 masks be used in all healthcare settings instead of basic surgical masks.

It is also calling for the distance between beds to be increased from 1 metre to 2m and for regular testing for all staff in healthcare settings on a rolling basis.

The Unions are laying the blame straight at their bosses in terms of resources and equipment for the spread in hospitals. It's a scandal.

There is no problem laying the blame at the shortfall of proper PPE for this, the problem is that the government was ill prepared in carrying out its own acclaimed prevention methods for a pandemic!

Head in the sand.. Hopefully they will have their ass's handed to them in the next election

What is going on is hospitals right now is a huge issue in the spread of the virus and death, this is the fault of the government and health service.

But hey why not let them blame someone who visited their family at Christmas for it instead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 25, 2021, 03:15:37 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 25, 2021, 02:18:02 PM
Bojo now saying that they are going to take a look at lifting some restrictions as early as the 15th of February
You actually could not make this stuff up
Was Easter only 2 days ago now it's 2 weeks and some stuff may be lifted

Smurfy, that is Boris Johnson in a nutshell. Bumbling from one disaster to clutching at a success.

I really don't know if he is ridiculously intelligent, or ridiculously stupid yet.

He, more than the Irish....needs his people on side, England is a mess.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 25, 2021, 03:28:19 PM
He will probably change what he says tomorrow. You can't believe what he says is going to happen until it actually does. He will say whatever lie falls into his head at the time he is talking and then there will never be any consequences if it is a lie.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 25, 2021, 04:12:00 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55800229 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55800229)

It's this sort of shit that annoys my head about Stormont and the NICS. Businesses are on their f**king knees and these wankers can't even deliver support. Incompetent gobshites. Even it was another crude 10k into rate payers accounts that'd be something. But there's a list of industries that need support and delivering it should be prioritised.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 25, 2021, 04:12:37 PM
They're handing back money every year. You couldn't make it up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on January 25, 2021, 04:17:09 PM
Could they not even give the NHS staff a one off payment as some sort of thank you if they cant think of anything else to do with it.

Israel are now saying they are seeing a 60% reduction in hospitalisation among over 60s 3 weeks after the first jab.  I think the media, social media and even people on here need to take a step back and wait for the data to come through over the next number of weeks before judging on whether the UK have made a balls of the vaccination programme.  They may well be right but lets wait and see.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 25, 2021, 04:18:56 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on January 25, 2021, 04:17:09 PM
Could they not even give the NHS staff a one off payment as some sort of thank you if they cant think of anything else to do with it.

Israel are now saying they are seeing a 60% reduction in hospitalisation among over 60s 3 weeks after the first jab.  I think the media, social media and even people on here need to take a step back and wait for the data to come through over the next number of weeks before judging on whether the UK have made a balls of the vaccination programme.  They may well be right but lets wait and see.

90m returned by Health. Fucks sake like.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 25, 2021, 05:05:13 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 25, 2021, 04:12:37 PM
They're handing back money every year. You couldn't make it up.

"Save the NHS"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on January 25, 2021, 05:44:28 PM
Just got an email there from NHS supposedly to say that I have been selected to receive a vaccination based on family genetics and medical history. .... I have 24 hours to accept or reject the invitation ...
I am not due a jab til spring and never heard of this scheme..... scam?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 25, 2021, 05:49:54 PM
There is one reported to be doing the rounds. It asks for key details people would use for passwords/security questions etc. Check reply address etc. Should be easy to spot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 05:57:55 PM
GP from Cork on the news there saying there has been a huge spike in patients with mental health problems at his practice and blames isolation and lack of socialisation for it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 25, 2021, 06:04:46 PM
Can anyone answer me this.
What is the logic of closing golf courses? Not golf clubs but the course
Why are we accepting this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 06:22:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 05:57:55 PM
GP from Cork on the news there saying there has been a huge spike in patients with mental health problems at his practice and blames isolation and lack of socialisation for it.

I thought you were going to blame vaccines there! Phew

People can still visit if someone is vulnerable or needs care..

Poor mental health should fall under that ability to care for someone
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 25, 2021, 06:38:35 PM
Poor mental health is failure to care for someone?

What a stupid comment


Getting locked up more like it
Lack of social interaction
Lack of exercise
Lack of will to live
Jobless
No money
Overweight
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 07:08:22 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 25, 2021, 06:38:35 PM
Poor mental health is failure to care for someone?

What a stupid comment


Getting locked up more like it
Lack of social interaction: you can still go out doors and interacting happens in many forms
Lack of exercise: no gyms open, I train every day walking, weights, running
Lack of will to live: people have that regardless of Covid, depression was here and will continue, there's a thread on it.
Jobless: these jobs will be available again, no one is making money
No money: no where to spend it
Overweight: that's a personal choice

All these things above happen daily, before Covid.

If someone is feeling mentally unwell due to being in lockdown you can care for them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 25, 2021, 07:08:42 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on January 25, 2021, 05:44:28 PM
Just got an email there from NHS supposedly to say that I have been selected to receive a vaccination based on family genetics and medical history. .... I have 24 hours to accept or reject the invitation ...
I am not due a jab til spring and never heard of this scheme..... scam?

SCAM.

You'll be contacted by your GP when it's your turn. And unless you are over the age of 75 by March 2021, its not your turn just yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 25, 2021, 08:11:05 PM
Restrictions work to reduce Covid as all sane posters know.
4th Jan 26 Co's 6,110. 6 Co's 1801.
11th Jan 4,929 and 759
18th Jan 2,121 and 650.
25th Jan 1,372 and 422.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Lar Naparka on January 25, 2021, 08:32:28 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 25, 2021, 06:04:46 PM
Can anyone answer me this.
What is tnhe logic of closing golf courses? Not golf clubs but the course
Why are we accepting this
I'm not quite sure what you mean.
Are golf clubhouses and all that goes with them remaining open while the courses are not.
I cannot see any logic here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on January 25, 2021, 09:14:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 25, 2021, 08:11:05 PM
Restrictions work to reduce Covid as all sane posters know.
4th Jan 26 Co's 6,110. 6 Co's 1801.
11th Jan 4,929 and 759
18th Jan 2,121 and 650.
25th Jan 1,372 and 422.

The idea that cases was plateauing at high levels has thankfully proved incorrect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 25, 2021, 09:31:54 PM
Level 5 restrictions for the ROI extended until March 5th.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 10:04:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 07:08:22 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 25, 2021, 06:38:35 PM
Poor mental health is failure to care for someone?

What a stupid comment


Getting locked up more like it
Lack of social interaction: you can still go out doors and interacting happens in many forms
Lack of exercise: no gyms open, I train every day walking, weights, running
Lack of will to live: people have that regardless of Covid, depression was here and will continue, there's a thread on it.
Jobless: these jobs will be available again, no one is making money
No money: no where to spend it
Overweight: that's a personal choice

All these things above happen daily, before Covid.

If someone is feeling mentally unwell due to being in lockdown you can care for them.

The GP interviewed on the news said the people coming to him had no previous mental health problems and a lot were in older age groups. He laid the blame firmly with lockdowns and their associated effects.

Interesting to see you know more about the doctor's patients than the doctor himself. Hope they got a referral to you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 10:20:14 PM
https://twitter.com/VirginMediaNews/status/1353783446188023812?s=19

Link to the Cork GP from earlier.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 10:34:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 10:04:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 07:08:22 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 25, 2021, 06:38:35 PM
Poor mental health is failure to care for someone?

What a stupid comment


Getting locked up more like it
Lack of social interaction: you can still go out doors and interacting happens in many forms
Lack of exercise: no gyms open, I train every day walking, weights, running
Lack of will to live: people have that regardless of Covid, depression was here and will continue, there's a thread on it.
Jobless: these jobs will be available again, no one is making money
No money: no where to spend it
Overweight: that's a personal choice

All these things above happen daily, before Covid.

If someone is feeling mentally unwell due to being in lockdown you can care for them.

The GP interviewed on the news said the people coming to him had no previous mental health problems and a lot were in older age groups. He laid the blame firmly with lockdowns and their associated effects.

Interesting to see you know more about the doctor's patients than the doctor himself. Hope they got a referral to you.

Where have I said lockdown isn't causing more people to feel depressed?

All I'm saying is there are ways out of it and ways to work through it. You're the most negative poster on the board bar none. You'd depress me just reading your depressing posts
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 25, 2021, 10:43:40 PM
No one wants or enjoys being in lockdown and there's no doubt it's effecting some people's mental health. Unfortunately there is no easy answer, but at least people today are willing to admit they need help and access the relevant support available.

Not so long ago you would be ridiculed for admitting you were struggling to deal with being in lockdown
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on January 25, 2021, 11:12:27 PM
Looking like we are staying in lockdown until at least the 5th of March.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on January 25, 2021, 11:19:05 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 25, 2021, 10:43:40 PM
No one wants or enjoys being in lockdown and there's no doubt it's effecting some people's mental health. Unfortunately there is no easy answer, but at least people today are willing to admit they need help and access the relevant support available.

Not so long ago you would be ridiculed for admitting you were struggling to deal with being in lockdown
I agree.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 11:25:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 10:34:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 10:04:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 07:08:22 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 25, 2021, 06:38:35 PM
Poor mental health is failure to care for someone?

What a stupid comment


Getting locked up more like it
Lack of social interaction: you can still go out doors and interacting happens in many forms
Lack of exercise: no gyms open, I train every day walking, weights, running
Lack of will to live: people have that regardless of Covid, depression was here and will continue, there's a thread on it.
Jobless: these jobs will be available again, no one is making money
No money: no where to spend it
Overweight: that's a personal choice

All these things above happen daily, before Covid.

If someone is feeling mentally unwell due to being in lockdown you can care for them.

The GP interviewed on the news said the people coming to him had no previous mental health problems and a lot were in older age groups. He laid the blame firmly with lockdowns and their associated effects.

Interesting to see you know more about the doctor's patients than the doctor himself. Hope they got a referral to you.

Where have I said lockdown isn't causing more people to feel depressed?

All I'm saying is there are ways out of it and ways to work through it. You're the most negative poster on the board bar none. You'd depress me just reading your depressing posts

Don't think hiding under the bed is helping people's mental health.

There needs to be a discussion on whether Lockdowns cause more harm than good and that discussion needs to have a comprehensive viewpoint rather than solely focused on stopping Covid spreading.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on January 25, 2021, 11:33:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 11:25:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 10:34:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 10:04:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 07:08:22 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 25, 2021, 06:38:35 PM
Poor mental health is failure to care for someone?

What a stupid comment


Getting locked up more like it
Lack of social interaction: you can still go out doors and interacting happens in many forms
Lack of exercise: no gyms open, I train every day walking, weights, running
Lack of will to live: people have that regardless of Covid, depression was here and will continue, there's a thread on it.
Jobless: these jobs will be available again, no one is making money
No money: no where to spend it
Overweight: that's a personal choice

All these things above happen daily, before Covid.

If someone is feeling mentally unwell due to being in lockdown you can care for them.

The GP interviewed on the news said the people coming to him had no previous mental health problems and a lot were in older age groups. He laid the blame firmly with lockdowns and their associated effects.

Interesting to see you know more about the doctor's patients than the doctor himself. Hope they got a referral to you.

Where have I said lockdown isn't causing more people to feel depressed?

All I'm saying is there are ways out of it and ways to work through it. You're the most negative poster on the board bar none. You'd depress me just reading your depressing posts

Don't think hiding under the bed is helping people's mental health.

There needs to be a discussion on whether Lockdowns cause more harm than good and that discussion needs to have a comprehensive viewpoint rather than solely focused on stopping Covid spreading.
If you're dead though, your mental health doesn't matter a whole pile, does it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 25, 2021, 11:36:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 11:25:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 10:34:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 10:04:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 07:08:22 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 25, 2021, 06:38:35 PM
Poor mental health is failure to care for someone?

What a stupid comment


Getting locked up more like it
Lack of social interaction: you can still go out doors and interacting happens in many forms
Lack of exercise: no gyms open, I train every day walking, weights, running
Lack of will to live: people have that regardless of Covid, depression was here and will continue, there's a thread on it.
Jobless: these jobs will be available again, no one is making money
No money: no where to spend it
Overweight: that's a personal choice

All these things above happen daily, before Covid.

If someone is feeling mentally unwell due to being in lockdown you can care for them.

The GP interviewed on the news said the people coming to him had no previous mental health problems and a lot were in older age groups. He laid the blame firmly with lockdowns and their associated effects.

Interesting to see you know more about the doctor's patients than the doctor himself. Hope they got a referral to you.

Where have I said lockdown isn't causing more people to feel depressed?

All I'm saying is there are ways out of it and ways to work through it. You're the most negative poster on the board bar none. You'd depress me just reading your depressing posts

Don't think hiding under the bed is helping people's mental health.

There needs to be a discussion on whether Lockdowns cause more harm than good and that discussion needs to have a comprehensive viewpoint rather than solely focused on stopping Covid spreading.
Absolutely, but it will also have to take into account the wider impact of Covid running rampant in the community and not just the death toll directly from Covid. And that includes mental health as well.

And just on mental health, this doesn't sound good if the results are correct. Worrying times.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/25/covid-linked-to-risk-of-mental-illness-and-brain-disorder-study-suggests
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 11:39:40 PM
Angelo

There has been a thread on here about depression for years, you've had zero interest in it, not one post from you on it, now you're concerned?

Forgive me for thinking you're full of shit and this is just an excuse for you to peddle crap that suits your narrative.

It's a bit like the gym owners and PT's on social media saying they are worried about people's mental health. I don't buy it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on January 25, 2021, 11:41:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 11:39:40 PM
Angelo

There has been a thread on here about depression for years, you've had zero interest in it, not one post from you on it, now you're concerned?

Forgive me for thinking you're full of shit and this is just an excuse for you to peddle crap that suits your narrative.

It's a bit like the gym owners and PT's on social media saying they are worried about people's mental health. I don't buy it
A lot of truth you speak.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on January 26, 2021, 09:03:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 11:39:40 PM
Angelo

There has been a thread on here about depression for years, you've had zero interest in it, not one post from you on it, now you're concerned?

Forgive me for thinking you're full of shit and this is just an excuse for you to peddle crap that suits your narrative.

It's a bit like the gym owners and PT's on social media saying they are worried about people's mental health. I don't buy it

Like the Tories sudden concern for schools being shut and the harm it's doing to the children when less than a month earlier they couldn't vote through a Labour bill to feed the kids when they are at home.
They were embarrassed into it by Marcus Rashford FFS.

Faux outrage and concern.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on January 26, 2021, 09:44:12 AM
Quote from: laoislad on January 25, 2021, 11:12:27 PM
Looking like we are staying in lockdown until at least the 5th of March.

Can't help thinking that doing lockdown as time based rather than number based is the wrong way.
Dunphy had a doc on last week saying we should be aiming to get numbers down to 10 per day, and then we could open everything, including Wet Pubs, and go to just Level 1 restrictions. But having strict test and trace and strict enforcement of rules around travel into the country to ensure we keep it at that level.

I think people could get behind that more, and it could be a fixed objective. But it takes as long as it takes. Rather than time based lockdowns which can and will change. Although CSO stats are still showing a strong majority of the public in favour of continued lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Look-Up! on January 26, 2021, 09:47:07 AM
Anyone know hotel rates for other countries with mandatory quarantine or the likely rates they will charge here for the 6 days or so in hotel. Can't see it being too shy of €100/day but wouldn't surprise me if hotels try drive the arm in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:52:09 AM
Quote from: restorepride on January 25, 2021, 11:33:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 11:25:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 10:34:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 25, 2021, 10:04:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 07:08:22 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 25, 2021, 06:38:35 PM
Poor mental health is failure to care for someone?

What a stupid comment


Getting locked up more like it
Lack of social interaction: you can still go out doors and interacting happens in many forms
Lack of exercise: no gyms open, I train every day walking, weights, running
Lack of will to live: people have that regardless of Covid, depression was here and will continue, there's a thread on it.
Jobless: these jobs will be available again, no one is making money
No money: no where to spend it
Overweight: that's a personal choice

All these things above happen daily, before Covid.

If someone is feeling mentally unwell due to being in lockdown you can care for them.

The GP interviewed on the news said the people coming to him had no previous mental health problems and a lot were in older age groups. He laid the blame firmly with lockdowns and their associated effects.

Interesting to see you know more about the doctor's patients than the doctor himself. Hope they got a referral to you.

Where have I said lockdown isn't causing more people to feel depressed?

All I'm saying is there are ways out of it and ways to work through it. You're the most negative poster on the board bar none. You'd depress me just reading your depressing posts

Don't think hiding under the bed is helping people's mental health.

There needs to be a discussion on whether Lockdowns cause more harm than good and that discussion needs to have a comprehensive viewpoint rather than solely focused on stopping Covid spreading.
If you're dead though, your mental health doesn't matter a whole pile, does it?

Neither does Covid if you're dead either.

What you seem to be saying is that and I'll use the doctor's words here "a sharp rise in mental health problems" in many people who never had reported problems like this before is an acceptable consequence of fighting Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:54:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 11:39:40 PM
Angelo

There has been a thread on here about depression for years, you've had zero interest in it, not one post from you on it, now you're concerned?

Forgive me for thinking you're full of shit and this is just an excuse for you to peddle crap that suits your narrative.

It's a bit like the gym owners and PT's on social media saying they are worried about people's mental health. I don't buy it

Why do you keep saying you know more than the medical professional here. He refers to a "sharp rise" in mental health problems in recent months and he attributes that to lockdown and consequences of the restrictions we have brought in. If we are making mental health an even bigger problem in our fight against Covid then I think we need to drastically look at the road we are going down.

But of course, you know better than a doctor and you know more about what his patients aren't doing that he does.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:55:54 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 26, 2021, 09:03:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 11:39:40 PM
Angelo

There has been a thread on here about depression for years, you've had zero interest in it, not one post from you on it, now you're concerned?

Forgive me for thinking you're full of shit and this is just an excuse for you to peddle crap that suits your narrative.

It's a bit like the gym owners and PT's on social media saying they are worried about people's mental health. I don't buy it

Like the Tories sudden concern for schools being shut and the harm it's doing to the children when less than a month earlier they couldn't vote through a Labour bill to feed the kids when they are at home.
They were embarrassed into it by Marcus Rashford FFS.

Faux outrage and concern.

A pity none of ye cared about lockdowns when in the flu season of 17/18, think of all the lives that have been saved then if ye gave up your liberties and freedoms. Do you regret that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 10:00:54 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:54:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 11:39:40 PM
Angelo

There has been a thread on here about depression for years, you've had zero interest in it, not one post from you on it, now you're concerned?

Forgive me for thinking you're full of shit and this is just an excuse for you to peddle crap that suits your narrative.

It's a bit like the gym owners and PT's on social media saying they are worried about people's mental health. I don't buy it

Why do you keep saying you know more than the medical professional here. He refers to a "sharp rise" in mental health problems in recent months and he attributes that to lockdown and consequences of the restrictions we have brought in. If we are making mental health an even bigger problem in our fight against Covid then I think we need to drastically look at the road we are going down.

But of course, you know better than a doctor and you know more about what his patients aren't doing that he does.

You've quoted my post without even addressing it?

Point out where I said I know more than the doctors? I've agreed with you that people are depressed more because of covid lockdowns, but depression has been around long before covid, and based on your input on the depression thread, which is zero, I feel you are full of shit, I don't need to be a doctor to access that diagnosis
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 10:06:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 10:00:54 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:54:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 11:39:40 PM
Angelo

There has been a thread on here about depression for years, you've had zero interest in it, not one post from you on it, now you're concerned?

Forgive me for thinking you're full of shit and this is just an excuse for you to peddle crap that suits your narrative.

It's a bit like the gym owners and PT's on social media saying they are worried about people's mental health. I don't buy it

Why do you keep saying you know more than the medical professional here. He refers to a "sharp rise" in mental health problems in recent months and he attributes that to lockdown and consequences of the restrictions we have brought in. If we are making mental health an even bigger problem in our fight against Covid then I think we need to drastically look at the road we are going down.

But of course, you know better than a doctor and you know more about what his patients aren't doing that he does.

You've quoted my post without even addressing it?

Point out where I said I know more than the doctors? I've agreed with you that people are depressed more because of covid lockdowns, but depression has been around long before covid, and based on your input on the depression thread, which is zero, I feel you are full of shit, I don't need to be a doctor to access that diagnosis

I quoted a post where you are dismissing what the doctor has said. For the third time, the doctor references a "sharp rise" in mental health problems in people who never had mental health problems before. He attributes this directly and unequivocally to lockdowns and restrictive measures enforced that leads to isolation and lack of socialisation. Are you trying to downplay a "sharp rise" in mental health problems as utterly meaningless and an acceptable consequence or do we really need to look at the road we are embarking on.

The difference is I look at the impact of things on society, you look at things on the impact of Covid and toss the concerns of everyone else aside, in your smug, condescending manner. Seemingly you know more about the mental health of the doctor's patients than the doctor himself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 10:32:06 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 10:06:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 10:00:54 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:54:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 11:39:40 PM
Angelo

There has been a thread on here about depression for years, you've had zero interest in it, not one post from you on it, now you're concerned?

Forgive me for thinking you're full of shit and this is just an excuse for you to peddle crap that suits your narrative.

It's a bit like the gym owners and PT's on social media saying they are worried about people's mental health. I don't buy it

Why do you keep saying you know more than the medical professional here. He refers to a "sharp rise" in mental health problems in recent months and he attributes that to lockdown and consequences of the restrictions we have brought in. If we are making mental health an even bigger problem in our fight against Covid then I think we need to drastically look at the road we are going down.

But of course, you know better than a doctor and you know more about what his patients aren't doing that he does.

You've quoted my post without even addressing it?

Point out where I said I know more than the doctors? I've agreed with you that people are depressed more because of covid lockdowns, but depression has been around long before covid, and based on your input on the depression thread, which is zero, I feel you are full of shit, I don't need to be a doctor to access that diagnosis

I quoted a post where you are dismissing what the doctor has said. For the third time, the doctor references a "sharp rise" in mental health problems in people who never had mental health problems before. He attributes this directly and unequivocally to lockdowns and restrictive measures enforced that leads to isolation and lack of socialisation. Are you trying to downplay a "sharp rise" in mental health problems as utterly meaningless and an acceptable consequence or do we really need to look at the road we are embarking on.

The difference is I look at the impact of things on society, you look at things on the impact of Covid and toss the concerns of everyone else aside, in your smug, condescending manner. Seemingly you know more about the mental health of the doctor's patients than the doctor himself.

Do you consider the impact on mental health if Covid wasn't curtailed by lockdowns? Do you consider the impact on people in the health service who are having to pick who gets the medical attention? People shielding who would be basically told they have to cut all contact as the risk of Covid would be greatly increased? The impact on people who may be too scared to go out at all if the level was allowed to increase? The impact on retail workers, teachers, other front line workers who have to work in a environment where they are even more at risk? The impact on people who blame themselves for bringing Covid back to a family member who dies?
I'm sure you are considering these as well in this open look at the impact on society.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on January 26, 2021, 10:52:07 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:55:54 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 26, 2021, 09:03:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 11:39:40 PM
Angelo

There has been a thread on here about depression for years, you've had zero interest in it, not one post from you on it, now you're concerned?

Forgive me for thinking you're full of shit and this is just an excuse for you to peddle crap that suits your narrative.

It's a bit like the gym owners and PT's on social media saying they are worried about people's mental health. I don't buy it

Like the Tories sudden concern for schools being shut and the harm it's doing to the children when less than a month earlier they couldn't vote through a Labour bill to feed the kids when they are at home.
They were embarrassed into it by Marcus Rashford FFS.

Faux outrage and concern.

A pity none of ye cared about lockdowns when in the flu season of 17/18, think of all the lives that have been saved then if ye gave up your liberties and freedoms. Do you regret that?

Of course there's regret and no doubt the next set of Flu vaccinations were changed to include the strain that caused the issues in 17/18 which dare I say you were only aware of yourself in the latter part of 2020 as it suited your agenda.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 11:17:31 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 26, 2021, 10:52:07 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:55:54 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 26, 2021, 09:03:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 11:39:40 PM
Angelo

There has been a thread on here about depression for years, you've had zero interest in it, not one post from you on it, now you're concerned?

Forgive me for thinking you're full of shit and this is just an excuse for you to peddle crap that suits your narrative.

It's a bit like the gym owners and PT's on social media saying they are worried about people's mental health. I don't buy it

Like the Tories sudden concern for schools being shut and the harm it's doing to the children when less than a month earlier they couldn't vote through a Labour bill to feed the kids when they are at home.
They were embarrassed into it by Marcus Rashford FFS.

Faux outrage and concern.

A pity none of ye cared about lockdowns when in the flu season of 17/18, think of all the lives that have been saved then if ye gave up your liberties and freedoms. Do you regret that?

Of course there's regret and no doubt the next set of Flu vaccinations were changed to include the strain that caused the issues in 17/18 which dare I say you were only aware of yourself in the latter part of 2020 as it suited your agenda.

I'm not the hypocrite on this here though.

You guys didn't bat an eyelid when people were dying in huge numbers of flu three years ago so where did this empathy and compassion jump out of in the past 9 months?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 26, 2021, 11:27:44 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:55:54 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 26, 2021, 09:03:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 11:39:40 PM
Angelo

There has been a thread on here about depression for years, you've had zero interest in it, not one post from you on it, now you're concerned?

Forgive me for thinking you're full of shit and this is just an excuse for you to peddle crap that suits your narrative.

It's a bit like the gym owners and PT's on social media saying they are worried about people's mental health. I don't buy it

Like the Tories sudden concern for schools being shut and the harm it's doing to the children when less than a month earlier they couldn't vote through a Labour bill to feed the kids when they are at home.
They were embarrassed into it by Marcus Rashford FFS.

Faux outrage and concern.

A pity none of ye cared about lockdowns when in the flu season of 17/18, think of all the lives that have been saved then if ye gave up your liberties and freedoms. Do you regret that?
That's a false comparison. Flu lethality is far lower.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 11:31:51 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2021, 11:27:44 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:55:54 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 26, 2021, 09:03:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 11:39:40 PM
Angelo

There has been a thread on here about depression for years, you've had zero interest in it, not one post from you on it, now you're concerned?

Forgive me for thinking you're full of shit and this is just an excuse for you to peddle crap that suits your narrative.

It's a bit like the gym owners and PT's on social media saying they are worried about people's mental health. I don't buy it

Like the Tories sudden concern for schools being shut and the harm it's doing to the children when less than a month earlier they couldn't vote through a Labour bill to feed the kids when they are at home.
They were embarrassed into it by Marcus Rashford FFS.

Faux outrage and concern.

A pity none of ye cared about lockdowns when in the flu season of 17/18, think of all the lives that have been saved then if ye gave up your liberties and freedoms. Do you regret that?
That's a false comparison. Flu lethality is far lower.

Explain the winter flu season of 17/18.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 26, 2021, 11:38:12 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 11:31:51 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2021, 11:27:44 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:55:54 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 26, 2021, 09:03:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 11:39:40 PM
Angelo

There has been a thread on here about depression for years, you've had zero interest in it, not one post from you on it, now you're concerned?

Forgive me for thinking you're full of shit and this is just an excuse for you to peddle crap that suits your narrative.

It's a bit like the gym owners and PT's on social media saying they are worried about people's mental health. I don't buy it

Like the Tories sudden concern for schools being shut and the harm it's doing to the children when less than a month earlier they couldn't vote through a Labour bill to feed the kids when they are at home.
They were embarrassed into it by Marcus Rashford FFS.

Faux outrage and concern.

A pity none of ye cared about lockdowns when in the flu season of 17/18, think of all the lives that have been saved then if ye gave up your liberties and freedoms. Do you regret that?
That's a false comparison. Flu lethality is far lower.

Explain the winter flu season of 17/18.

Explain the previous year and the  following year
Covid is continuously lethal
UK mortality last year increased by 13%. First time in 30 years that it increased.
Any data for flu doing that ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 12:01:52 PM
Angelo you're relentless on the the flu of 17/18 and now depression. Two subjects on this board board that you have zero, that's zero posts about, so again, forgive me for thinking you give a flying fcuk about these people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:09:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 12:01:52 PM
Angelo you're relentless on the the flu of 17/18 and now depression. Two subjects on this board board that you have zero, that's zero posts about, so again, forgive me for thinking you give a flying fcuk about these people.

You got it. I'm not a hypocrite here.

But you are. You somehow think its ok from people to die from flu, for mental health problems to see sharp rise.

But you don't think Covid is ok.

That's the type of hypocrisy I'm showing up from you here.

You don't care about the rise in mental health issues nor mass deaths from flu but you do care about Covid? Double standards.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 26, 2021, 12:09:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 12:01:52 PM
Angelo you're relentless on the the flu of 17/18 and now depression. Two subjects on this board board that you have zero, that's zero posts about, so again, forgive me for thinking you give a flying fcuk about these people.

I don't why you bother.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 12:21:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:09:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 12:01:52 PM
Angelo you're relentless on the the flu of 17/18 and now depression. Two subjects on this board board that you have zero, that's zero posts about, so again, forgive me for thinking you give a flying fcuk about these people.

You got it. I'm not a hypocrite here.

But you are. You somehow think its ok from people to die from flu, for mental health problems to see sharp rise.

But you don't think Covid is ok.

That's the type of hypocrisy I'm showing up from you here.

You don't care about the rise in mental health issues nor mass deaths from flu but you do care about Covid? Double standards.
Again have you thought about the mental health impact of letting Covid go unchecked by lockdowns. Do you not care about those? Is that not hypocrisy?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:26:03 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 12:21:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:09:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 12:01:52 PM
Angelo you're relentless on the the flu of 17/18 and now depression. Two subjects on this board board that you have zero, that's zero posts about, so again, forgive me for thinking you give a flying fcuk about these people.

You got it. I'm not a hypocrite here.

But you are. You somehow think its ok from people to die from flu, for mental health problems to see sharp rise.

But you don't think Covid is ok.

That's the type of hypocrisy I'm showing up from you here.

You don't care about the rise in mental health issues nor mass deaths from flu but you do care about Covid? Double standards.
Again have you thought about the mental health impact of letting Covid go unchecked by lockdowns. Do you not care about those? Is that not hypocrisy?

I look at things in a panoramic mode. I see the bigger picture.

Lockdowns seem to have a greater impact on mental health than Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 12:28:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:26:03 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 12:21:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:09:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 12:01:52 PM
Angelo you're relentless on the the flu of 17/18 and now depression. Two subjects on this board board that you have zero, that's zero posts about, so again, forgive me for thinking you give a flying fcuk about these people.

You got it. I'm not a hypocrite here.

But you are. You somehow think its ok from people to die from flu, for mental health problems to see sharp rise.

But you don't think Covid is ok.

That's the type of hypocrisy I'm showing up from you here.

You don't care about the rise in mental health issues nor mass deaths from flu but you do care about Covid? Double standards.
Again have you thought about the mental health impact of letting Covid go unchecked by lockdowns. Do you not care about those? Is that not hypocrisy?

I look at things in a panoramic mode. I see the bigger picture.

Lockdowns seem to have a greater impact on mental health than Covid.
That's not what I asked.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:29:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2021, 11:38:12 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 11:31:51 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 26, 2021, 11:27:44 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:55:54 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 26, 2021, 09:03:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 11:39:40 PM
Angelo

There has been a thread on here about depression for years, you've had zero interest in it, not one post from you on it, now you're concerned?

Forgive me for thinking you're full of shit and this is just an excuse for you to peddle crap that suits your narrative.

It's a bit like the gym owners and PT's on social media saying they are worried about people's mental health. I don't buy it

Like the Tories sudden concern for schools being shut and the harm it's doing to the children when less than a month earlier they couldn't vote through a Labour bill to feed the kids when they are at home.
They were embarrassed into it by Marcus Rashford FFS.

Faux outrage and concern.

A pity none of ye cared about lockdowns when in the flu season of 17/18, think of all the lives that have been saved then if ye gave up your liberties and freedoms. Do you regret that?
That's a false comparison. Flu lethality is far lower.

Explain the winter flu season of 17/18.

Explain the previous year and the  following year
Covid is continuously lethal
UK mortality last year increased by 13%. First time in 30 years that it increased.
Any data for flu doing that ?

So was the flu season in 17/18.

50k excess deaths in that Dec 17 - Mar 18 in the UK.

Covid has yet to hit the peak of the winter flu in 17/18 where there were over 2k deaths in January 18 and nobody even batted an eyelid about it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on January 26, 2021, 12:30:56 PM
What will happen if the United Ireland turns out not to be socialist?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 12:32:04 PM
Quote from: five points on January 26, 2021, 12:30:56 PM
What will happen if the United Ireland turns out not to be socialist?
Covid will take over the world.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:32:17 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 12:28:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:26:03 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 12:21:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:09:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 12:01:52 PM
Angelo you're relentless on the the flu of 17/18 and now depression. Two subjects on this board board that you have zero, that's zero posts about, so again, forgive me for thinking you give a flying fcuk about these people.

You got it. I'm not a hypocrite here.

But you are. You somehow think its ok from people to die from flu, for mental health problems to see sharp rise.

But you don't think Covid is ok.

That's the type of hypocrisy I'm showing up from you here.

You don't care about the rise in mental health issues nor mass deaths from flu but you do care about Covid? Double standards.
Again have you thought about the mental health impact of letting Covid go unchecked by lockdowns. Do you not care about those? Is that not hypocrisy?

I look at things in a panoramic mode. I see the bigger picture.

Lockdowns seem to have a greater impact on mental health than Covid.
That's not what I asked.

So you only want an answer to a narrow focused, loaded question?

I look at the bigger picture. I don't put a narrow focus on things, I look at the overall impact it will have on society and the long terms effects. I strongly feel lockdowns are doing more damage than good and they are a mechanism for governments with absolutely no strategy, no forward thinking and no accountability.

What are they doing about the hospitals and the transmission rates there? Why have they not protected care facilities?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 12:35:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:32:17 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 12:28:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:26:03 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 12:21:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:09:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 12:01:52 PM
Angelo you're relentless on the the flu of 17/18 and now depression. Two subjects on this board board that you have zero, that's zero posts about, so again, forgive me for thinking you give a flying fcuk about these people.

You got it. I'm not a hypocrite here.

But you are. You somehow think its ok from people to die from flu, for mental health problems to see sharp rise.

But you don't think Covid is ok.

That's the type of hypocrisy I'm showing up from you here.

You don't care about the rise in mental health issues nor mass deaths from flu but you do care about Covid? Double standards.
Again have you thought about the mental health impact of letting Covid go unchecked by lockdowns. Do you not care about those? Is that not hypocrisy?

I look at things in a panoramic mode. I see the bigger picture.

Lockdowns seem to have a greater impact on mental health than Covid.
That's not what I asked.

So you only want an answer to a narrow focused, loaded question?

I look at the bigger picture. I don't put a narrow focus on things, I look at the overall impact it will have on society and the long terms effects. I strongly feel lockdowns are doing more damage than good and they are a mechanism for governments with absolutely no strategy, no forward thinking and no accountability.

What are they doing about the hospitals and the transmission rates there? Why have they not protected care facilities?

So your not actually considering a balanced open view at all. You just want to focus on the aspects you want to use. You're done Angelo, check out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:39:53 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 12:35:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:32:17 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 12:28:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:26:03 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 12:21:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:09:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 12:01:52 PM
Angelo you're relentless on the the flu of 17/18 and now depression. Two subjects on this board board that you have zero, that's zero posts about, so again, forgive me for thinking you give a flying fcuk about these people.

You got it. I'm not a hypocrite here.

But you are. You somehow think its ok from people to die from flu, for mental health problems to see sharp rise.

But you don't think Covid is ok.

That's the type of hypocrisy I'm showing up from you here.

You don't care about the rise in mental health issues nor mass deaths from flu but you do care about Covid? Double standards.
Again have you thought about the mental health impact of letting Covid go unchecked by lockdowns. Do you not care about those? Is that not hypocrisy?

I look at things in a panoramic mode. I see the bigger picture.

Lockdowns seem to have a greater impact on mental health than Covid.
That's not what I asked.

So you only want an answer to a narrow focused, loaded question?

I look at the bigger picture. I don't put a narrow focus on things, I look at the overall impact it will have on society and the long terms effects. I strongly feel lockdowns are doing more damage than good and they are a mechanism for governments with absolutely no strategy, no forward thinking and no accountability.

What are they doing about the hospitals and the transmission rates there? Why have they not protected care facilities?

So your not actually considering a balanced open view at all. You just want to focus on the aspects you want to use. You're done Angelo, check out.

I am.

I look at the broad picture.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 26, 2021, 12:45:28 PM
Sister of mine was getting the swab in Dungannon today..their systems were down. They told her to "go get a coffee and come back".

We're done for.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 26, 2021, 01:10:21 PM
Alternative was "let it rip" or "take it on the chin".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 01:12:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 26, 2021, 01:10:21 PM
Alternative was "let it rip" or "take it on the chin".

Once again.

Rossfan is the only poster here using the term let it rip.

It's a sensationalist term that I have not heard anyone on here suggest ever, other than him, it's the type of dumbed down commentary that is the level of his offerings on this forum as a whole.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 01:20:03 PM
Quote from: clarshack on January 26, 2021, 01:01:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:32:17 PM

you only want an answer to a narrow focused, loaded question?

I look at the bigger picture. I don't put a narrow focus on things, I look at the overall impact it will have on society and the long terms effects. I strongly feel lockdowns are doing more damage than good and they are a mechanism for governments with absolutely no strategy, no forward thinking and no accountability.

What are they doing about the hospitals and the transmission rates there? Why have they not protected care facilities?

Totally agree on lockdowns, the long term effects of them are going to be frightening.

What would you have done instead?

If there was another easier option available the government would have taken it. The government tried to ease restrictions in the south but people took the piss, cases exploded and they had to act. Without lockdown the health service would have collapsed, cases and deaths would increase even quicker than they did.

Sweden took the relaxed approach and their prime minister has admitted they failed. They have more deaths from covid than the rest of their scandanavian neighbours combined.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on January 26, 2021, 01:23:50 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 01:20:03 PM

Sweden took the relaxed approach and their prime minister has admitted they failed. They have more deaths from covid than the rest of their scandanavian neighbours combined.

Sweden has as big a population as the rest of its Scandanavian neighbours combined.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 01:26:48 PM
Quote from: five points on January 26, 2021, 01:23:50 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 01:20:03 PM

Sweden took the relaxed approach and their prime minister has admitted they failed. They have more deaths from covid than the rest of their scandanavian neighbours combined.

Sweden has as big a population as the rest of its Scandanavian neighbours combined.

The prime minister and king of sweden said their approach was a failure. If that's not an admission they got it wrong I don't know what is.

What's your alternative to lockdown?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 01:31:01 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 01:20:03 PM
Quote from: clarshack on January 26, 2021, 01:01:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:32:17 PM

you only want an answer to a narrow focused, loaded question?

I look at the bigger picture. I don't put a narrow focus on things, I look at the overall impact it will have on society and the long terms effects. I strongly feel lockdowns are doing more damage than good and they are a mechanism for governments with absolutely no strategy, no forward thinking and no accountability.

What are they doing about the hospitals and the transmission rates there? Why have they not protected care facilities?

Totally agree on lockdowns, the long term effects of them are going to be frightening.

What would you have done instead?

If there was another easier option available the government would have taken it. The government tried to ease restrictions in the south but people took the piss, cases exploded and they had to act. Without lockdown the health service would have collapsed, cases and deaths would increase even quicker than they did.

Sweden took the relaxed approach and their prime minister has admitted they failed. They have more deaths from covid than the rest of their scandanavian neighbours combined.

Once again you only look at thing through a lens of Covid.

Sweden has done no worse than the majority of Europe in this regard who have all had severe lockdowns and draconian restrictions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 01:41:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:09:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 12:01:52 PM
Angelo you're relentless on the the flu of 17/18 and now depression. Two subjects on this board board that you have zero, that's zero posts about, so again, forgive me for thinking you give a flying fcuk about these people.

You got it. I'm not a hypocrite here.

But you are. You somehow think its ok from people to die from flu, for mental health problems to see sharp rise.

But you don't think Covid is ok.

That's the type of hypocrisy I'm showing up from you here.

You don't care about the rise in mental health issues nor mass deaths from flu but you do care about Covid? Double standards.

Again you still show no sympathy empathy towards depression mental health or flu victims of 17/18 as you never address either of these topics which are on this forum.

You're full of shit, charlatan and the biggest hypocrite on this board
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 26, 2021, 01:42:38 PM
The King of Sweden is a ceremonial role. He has little to no power. For him to say it was a failure, may be true....but he also faces no backlash, as a result he is probably a kind face to deliver bad news.

With regards to Sweden, we've all seen multiple graphs on them by people with various agendas either for, or against their model. The Swedes have suffered 11k deaths on their policy of keeping everything open....11k is still 11k.

A quick search shows us they have 10.23 million, they have 11,005 deaths and total 547k cases.

Basic numbers, they look to have fatality rate of 0.1%. Not really a massive failure on this. But again, 11k deaths, is 11k deaths which were directly responsible to their policy and as a result can only be labelled a failure.

Sweden seems to follow the "popular" trend of this thing taking out about 0.1% of known cases. Would that be accurate?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NAG1 on January 26, 2021, 01:45:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 01:31:01 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 01:20:03 PM
Quote from: clarshack on January 26, 2021, 01:01:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 12:32:17 PM

you only want an answer to a narrow focused, loaded question?

I look at the bigger picture. I don't put a narrow focus on things, I look at the overall impact it will have on society and the long terms effects. I strongly feel lockdowns are doing more damage than good and they are a mechanism for governments with absolutely no strategy, no forward thinking and no accountability.

What are they doing about the hospitals and the transmission rates there? Why have they not protected care facilities?

Totally agree on lockdowns, the long term effects of them are going to be frightening.

What would you have done instead?

If there was another easier option available the government would have taken it. The government tried to ease restrictions in the south but people took the piss, cases exploded and they had to act. Without lockdown the health service would have collapsed, cases and deaths would increase even quicker than they did.

Sweden took the relaxed approach and their prime minister has admitted they failed. They have more deaths from covid than the rest of their scandanavian neighbours combined.

Once again you only look at thing through a lens of Covid.

Sweden has done no worse than the majority of Europe in this regard who have all had severe lockdowns and draconian restrictions.

I know logic is no friend here in this 'debate'.

By your own argument, had Sweden followed suit and instigated a lock down like the rest of the world their Covid death rate would have been significantly lower. They themselves have admitted getting it wrong the figures are now backing that up with one of the highest death rates going.

But that doesnt fit this ridiculous narrative that you have pursued on here for weeks.

Maybe those deaths were OK with you as you seem to suggest the deaths here in Ireland are too. What is a level of death rate that you are OK with, just so you can have your freedoms back?

Who would you say its OK to die, so we can all get out for a beer or for a meal?
Your friends? Your family? Your neighbours?

Heaven forbid it hits you that close but if or when it ever did you would be looking at it with completely different set of values and principles.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 01:56:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 26, 2021, 01:42:38 PM
The King of Sweden is a ceremonial role. He has little to no power. For him to say it was a failure, may be true....but he also faces no backlash, as a result he is probably a kind face to deliver bad news.

With regards to Sweden, we've all seen multiple graphs on them by people with various agendas either for, or against their model. The Swedes have suffered 11k deaths on their policy of keeping everything open....11k is still 11k.

A quick search shows us they have 10.23 million, they have 11,005 deaths and total 547k cases.

Basic numbers, they look to have fatality rate of 0.1%. Not really a massive failure on this. But again, 11k deaths, is 11k deaths which were directly responsible to their policy and as a result can only be labelled a failure.

Sweden seems to follow the "popular" trend of this thing taking out about 0.1% of known cases. Would that be accurate?

Swedn has seen more cases/deaths than any of their nordic neighbours. Depending on which nordic country you compare sweden to their deaths per million of population was between 4.5 and 10 times higher.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 01:57:12 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 26, 2021, 01:42:38 PM
The King of Sweden is a ceremonial role. He has little to no power. For him to say it was a failure, may be true....but he also faces no backlash, as a result he is probably a kind face to deliver bad news.

With regards to Sweden, we've all seen multiple graphs on them by people with various agendas either for, or against their model. The Swedes have suffered 11k deaths on their policy of keeping everything open....11k is still 11k.

A quick search shows us they have 10.23 million, they have 11,005 deaths and total 547k cases.

Basic numbers, they look to have fatality rate of 0.1%. Not really a massive failure on this. But again, 11k deaths, is 11k deaths which were directly responsible to their policy and as a result can only be labelled a failure.

Sweden seems to follow the "popular" trend of this thing taking out about 0.1% of known cases. Would that be accurate?

But how is Sweden's death rate relative to their policy. Other countries who have enforced severe lockdowns have fared far, far worse than Sweden. It's also the notable that the vast majority of Sweden's population is located the south of the country so population density figures provided are skewed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 01:58:02 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 01:56:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 26, 2021, 01:42:38 PM
The King of Sweden is a ceremonial role. He has little to no power. For him to say it was a failure, may be true....but he also faces no backlash, as a result he is probably a kind face to deliver bad news.

With regards to Sweden, we've all seen multiple graphs on them by people with various agendas either for, or against their model. The Swedes have suffered 11k deaths on their policy of keeping everything open....11k is still 11k.

A quick search shows us they have 10.23 million, they have 11,005 deaths and total 547k cases.

Basic numbers, they look to have fatality rate of 0.1%. Not really a massive failure on this. But again, 11k deaths, is 11k deaths which were directly responsible to their policy and as a result can only be labelled a failure.

Sweden seems to follow the "popular" trend of this thing taking out about 0.1% of known cases. Would that be accurate?

Swedn has seen more cases/deaths than any of their nordic neighbours. Depending on which nordic country you compare sweden to their deaths per million of population was between 4.5 and 10 times higher.

What about Sweden's European neighbours in Poland and Germany?

How do they compare?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 26, 2021, 02:04:34 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 01:56:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 26, 2021, 01:42:38 PM
The King of Sweden is a ceremonial role. He has little to no power. For him to say it was a failure, may be true....but he also faces no backlash, as a result he is probably a kind face to deliver bad news.

With regards to Sweden, we've all seen multiple graphs on them by people with various agendas either for, or against their model. The Swedes have suffered 11k deaths on their policy of keeping everything open....11k is still 11k.

A quick search shows us they have 10.23 million, they have 11,005 deaths and total 547k cases.

Basic numbers, they look to have fatality rate of 0.1%. Not really a massive failure on this. But again, 11k deaths, is 11k deaths which were directly responsible to their policy and as a result can only be labelled a failure.

Sweden seems to follow the "popular" trend of this thing taking out about 0.1% of known cases. Would that be accurate?

Swedn has seen more cases/deaths than any of their nordic neighbours. Depending on which nordic country you compare sweden to their deaths per million of population was between 4.5 and 10 times higher.

I've no dog in the fight with Sweden to be honest, I just am bringing in the political significance of their King stating it was a failure. Looks like he done a turn for the Government with that.

Of course, by nature of staying open their numbers will be bigger, they are a bigger country with more cities especially....But if you didn't know Sweden kept it open, you wouldn't exactly be screaming monsters....complete failures either. Their figures are relatively "acceptable" I would say, considering.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 26, 2021, 03:05:14 PM
180 or so Countries and their Chief Medical honchos go with lockdowns/restrictions.
One or two 6Cos Gaaboard posters think that was the wrong approach.
But of course they're not giving us the benefit of their vast wisdom by giving an  alternative.

Unkinder people than me might think they're just spoofers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 26, 2021, 03:10:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 26, 2021, 03:05:14 PM
180 or so Countries and their Chief Medical honchos go with lockdowns/restrictions.
One or two 6Cos Gaaboard posters think that was the wrong approach.
But of course they're not giving us the benefit of their vast wisdom by giving an  alternative.

Unkinder people than me might think they're just spoofers.

You have a serious mental problem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 26, 2021, 03:13:00 PM
Ye know who ye are ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 03:17:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 26, 2021, 03:05:14 PM
180 or so Countries and their Chief Medical honchos go with lockdowns/restrictions.
One or two 6Cos Gaaboard posters think that was the wrong approach.
But of course they're not giving us the benefit of their vast wisdom by giving an  alternative.

Unkinder people than me might think they're just spoofers.

And you're the guy who wants us to follow a chap set to face genocide charges blindly?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/who-chief-tedros-adhanom-ghebreyesus-may-face-genocide-charges-2fbfz7sff
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on January 26, 2021, 03:20:53 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 01:26:48 PM
Quote from: five points on January 26, 2021, 01:23:50 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 01:20:03 PM

Sweden took the relaxed approach and their prime minister has admitted they failed. They have more deaths from covid than the rest of their scandanavian neighbours combined.

Sweden has as big a population as the rest of its Scandanavian neighbours combined.

The prime minister and king of sweden said their approach was a failure. If that's not an admission they got it wrong I don't know what is.
Quite obvious at this stage that pretty much every country got it wrong.

Quote
What's your alternative to lockdown?
Spend a lot more on health, and protecting the vulnerable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 03:37:31 PM
Quote from: five points on January 26, 2021, 03:20:53 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 01:26:48 PM
Quote from: five points on January 26, 2021, 01:23:50 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 01:20:03 PM

Sweden took the relaxed approach and their prime minister has admitted they failed. They have more deaths from covid than the rest of their scandanavian neighbours combined.

Sweden has as big a population as the rest of its Scandanavian neighbours combined.

The prime minister and king of sweden said their approach was a failure. If that's not an admission they got it wrong I don't know what is.
Quite obvious at this stage that pretty much every country got it wrong.

Quote
What's your alternative to lockdown?
Spend a lot more on health, and protecting the vulnerable.

Hindsight is wonderful, the NHS is on its knees, its not be able to look after 65 million people and all its needs, since it started in 1948 it was looking after 45 million people roughly, they haven't  invested in it properly..

Now we know all of that, where are they going to get the money to spend on the NHS, its been haemorrhaging billions yearly.

Your answer is to spend more, will that stop the virus or other virus's and will it do that soon?

And protect the vulnerable, are we not trying to do that? people haven't seen their parents properly for a year, nursing homes have been closed and its still catching the virus..

Are you saying we should not let anyone out of the house if they are over 65? Let the younger healthy ones go about their business?

I'd much prefer Aussies and Kiwis approach, these are countries which has been able to contain the virus and open up at the same time, a lot cheaper than spending more money on the NHS and far more less restrictive than locking up old people, so the young can carry on..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 03:39:15 PM
Quote
What's your alternative to lockdown?
Spend a lot more on health, and protecting the vulnerable.
[/quote]


That's your plan?

Spend more on health......
Protect the vulnerable......

Without lockdowns how does spending more on health prevent the spread of covid? How much is "alot more" and how would you fund it? You'd have to raise taxes and you're not stopping the spread of covid. All you're doing is maybe providing more beds for patients in hospital with covid




Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 03:42:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 03:37:31 PM
Quote from: five points on January 26, 2021, 03:20:53 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 01:26:48 PM
Quote from: five points on January 26, 2021, 01:23:50 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 01:20:03 PM

Sweden took the relaxed approach and their prime minister has admitted they failed. They have more deaths from covid than the rest of their scandanavian neighbours combined.

Sweden has as big a population as the rest of its Scandanavian neighbours combined.

The prime minister and king of sweden said their approach was a failure. If that's not an admission they got it wrong I don't know what is.
Quite obvious at this stage that pretty much every country got it wrong.

Quote
What's your alternative to lockdown?
Spend a lot more on health, and protecting the vulnerable.

Hindsight is wonderful, the NHS is on its knees, its not be able to look after 65 million people and all its needs, since it started in 1948 it was looking after 45 million people roughly, they haven't  invested in it properly..

Now we know all of that, where are they going to get the money to spend on the NHS, its been haemorrhaging billions yearly.

Your answer is to spend more, will that stop the virus or other virus's and will it do that soon?

And protect the vulnerable, are we not trying to do that? people haven't seen their parents properly for a year, nursing homes have been closed and its still catching the virus..

Are you saying we should not let anyone out of the house if they are over 65? Let the younger healthy ones go about their business?

I'd much prefer Aussies and Kiwis approach, these are countries which has been able to contain the virus and open up at the same time, a lot cheaper than spending more money on the NHS and far more less restrictive than locking up old people, so the young can carry on..

A health service is not there to generate money, it is there to look after it's people. You invest money in it to improve the quality of healthcare in it, if the money you invest in it isn't improving the quality of healthcare then you need to look at reforms. But for years governments have continued to cut back resources on healthcare, cut back on healthcare staff, cut back on hospital beds etc.

That is why we are in this mess.

And lockdowns don't deal with these issues, they only create additional ones.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 03:42:56 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 03:39:15 PM
Quote
What's your alternative to lockdown?
Spend a lot more on health, and protecting the vulnerable.


That's your plan?

Spend more on health......
Protect the vulnerable......

Without lockdowns how does spending more on health prevent the spread of covid? How much is "alot more" and how would you fund it? You'd have to raise taxes and you're not stopping the spread of covid. All you're doing is maybe providing more beds for patients in hospital with covid
[/quote]

How have lockdowns worked?

Why are we in Lockdown no 3?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 03:55:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 03:42:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 03:37:31 PM
Quote from: five points on January 26, 2021, 03:20:53 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 01:26:48 PM
Quote from: five points on January 26, 2021, 01:23:50 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 01:20:03 PM

Sweden took the relaxed approach and their prime minister has admitted they failed. They have more deaths from covid than the rest of their scandanavian neighbours combined.

Sweden has as big a population as the rest of its Scandanavian neighbours combined.

The prime minister and king of sweden said their approach was a failure. If that's not an admission they got it wrong I don't know what is.
Quite obvious at this stage that pretty much every country got it wrong.

Quote
What's your alternative to lockdown?
Spend a lot more on health, and protecting the vulnerable.

Hindsight is wonderful, the NHS is on its knees, its not be able to look after 65 million people and all its needs, since it started in 1948 it was looking after 45 million people roughly, they haven't  invested in it properly..

Now we know all of that, where are they going to get the money to spend on the NHS, its been haemorrhaging billions yearly.

Your answer is to spend more, will that stop the virus or other virus's and will it do that soon?

And protect the vulnerable, are we not trying to do that? people haven't seen their parents properly for a year, nursing homes have been closed and its still catching the virus..

Are you saying we should not let anyone out of the house if they are over 65? Let the younger healthy ones go about their business?

I'd much prefer Aussies and Kiwis approach, these are countries which has been able to contain the virus and open up at the same time, a lot cheaper than spending more money on the NHS and far more less restrictive than locking up old people, so the young can carry on..

A health service is not there to generate money, it is there to look after it's people. You invest money in it to improve the quality of healthcare in it, if the money you invest in it isn't improving the quality of healthcare then you need to look at reforms. But for years governments have continued to cut back resources on healthcare, cut back on healthcare staff, cut back on hospital beds etc.

That is why we are in this mess.

And lockdowns don't deal with these issues, they only create additional ones.

So I've looked at my post and I'm wondering where I posted that the health service is there to generate money! f**k almighty

They, the government, haven't invested in the NHS properly, they ain't investing in it to generate money, just to save lives.

You are repeating what I've said.

As for the lockdowns are you looking to do the Sweden method or Aussie/Kiwi ones?

Also, I know about depression and the flu of 17/18 I've posted on these threads before
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on January 26, 2021, 04:03:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 11:17:31 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 26, 2021, 10:52:07 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:55:54 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 26, 2021, 09:03:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 11:39:40 PM
Angelo

There has been a thread on here about depression for years, you've had zero interest in it, not one post from you on it, now you're concerned?

Forgive me for thinking you're full of shit and this is just an excuse for you to peddle crap that suits your narrative.

It's a bit like the gym owners and PT's on social media saying they are worried about people's mental health. I don't buy it

Like the Tories sudden concern for schools being shut and the harm it's doing to the children when less than a month earlier they couldn't vote through a Labour bill to feed the kids when they are at home.
They were embarrassed into it by Marcus Rashford FFS.

Faux outrage and concern.

A pity none of ye cared about lockdowns when in the flu season of 17/18, think of all the lives that have been saved then if ye gave up your liberties and freedoms. Do you regret that?

Of course there's regret and no doubt the next set of Flu vaccinations were changed to include the strain that caused the issues in 17/18 which dare I say you were only aware of yourself in the latter part of 2020 as it suited your agenda.

I'm not the hypocrite on this here though.

You guys didn't bat an eyelid when people were dying in huge numbers of flu three years ago so where did this empathy and compassion jump out of in the past 9 months?

Not going to go back three years to see if you showed such outrage then either as no doubt you and I admittedly was blissfully unaware of increase in flu deaths three years ago.
It currently fits your agenda to go back over it but if the winters of 18/19 and 19/20 had also shown the same very high flu deaths then you'd have sufficient evidence to suggest negligence and mishandling of a virus on a scale that we're seeing right now with coronavirus with over 100K excess deaths and still counting.

I know you're against lockdown, not sure what you're for, so how many deaths are you prepared to live with so that you can restore some form of normality? 50K per annum, roughly 1K per week?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 04:17:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 03:55:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 03:42:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 03:37:31 PM
Quote from: five points on January 26, 2021, 03:20:53 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 01:26:48 PM
Quote from: five points on January 26, 2021, 01:23:50 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 01:20:03 PM

Sweden took the relaxed approach and their prime minister has admitted they failed. They have more deaths from covid than the rest of their scandanavian neighbours combined.

Sweden has as big a population as the rest of its Scandanavian neighbours combined.

The prime minister and king of sweden said their approach was a failure. If that's not an admission they got it wrong I don't know what is.
Quite obvious at this stage that pretty much every country got it wrong.

Quote
What's your alternative to lockdown?
Spend a lot more on health, and protecting the vulnerable.

Hindsight is wonderful, the NHS is on its knees, its not be able to look after 65 million people and all its needs, since it started in 1948 it was looking after 45 million people roughly, they haven't  invested in it properly..

Now we know all of that, where are they going to get the money to spend on the NHS, its been haemorrhaging billions yearly.

Your answer is to spend more, will that stop the virus or other virus's and will it do that soon?

And protect the vulnerable, are we not trying to do that? people haven't seen their parents properly for a year, nursing homes have been closed and its still catching the virus..

Are you saying we should not let anyone out of the house if they are over 65? Let the younger healthy ones go about their business?

I'd much prefer Aussies and Kiwis approach, these are countries which has been able to contain the virus and open up at the same time, a lot cheaper than spending more money on the NHS and far more less restrictive than locking up old people, so the young can carry on..

A health service is not there to generate money, it is there to look after it's people. You invest money in it to improve the quality of healthcare in it, if the money you invest in it isn't improving the quality of healthcare then you need to look at reforms. But for years governments have continued to cut back resources on healthcare, cut back on healthcare staff, cut back on hospital beds etc.

That is why we are in this mess.

And lockdowns don't deal with these issues, they only create additional ones.

So I've looked at my post and I'm wondering where I posted that the health service is there to generate money! f**k almighty

They, the government, haven't invested in the NHS properly, they ain't investing in it to generate money, just to save lives.

You are repeating what I've said.

As for the lockdowns are you looking to do the Sweden method or Aussie/Kiwi ones?

Also, I know about depression and the flu of 17/18 I've posted on these threads before

You talked about it hemorrhaging billions so I was wondering if you were under the illusion it was actually there to make money?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 04:19:58 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 26, 2021, 04:03:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 11:17:31 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 26, 2021, 10:52:07 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:55:54 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 26, 2021, 09:03:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2021, 11:39:40 PM
Angelo

There has been a thread on here about depression for years, you've had zero interest in it, not one post from you on it, now you're concerned?

Forgive me for thinking you're full of shit and this is just an excuse for you to peddle crap that suits your narrative.

It's a bit like the gym owners and PT's on social media saying they are worried about people's mental health. I don't buy it

Like the Tories sudden concern for schools being shut and the harm it's doing to the children when less than a month earlier they couldn't vote through a Labour bill to feed the kids when they are at home.
They were embarrassed into it by Marcus Rashford FFS.

Faux outrage and concern.

A pity none of ye cared about lockdowns when in the flu season of 17/18, think of all the lives that have been saved then if ye gave up your liberties and freedoms. Do you regret that?

Of course there's regret and no doubt the next set of Flu vaccinations were changed to include the strain that caused the issues in 17/18 which dare I say you were only aware of yourself in the latter part of 2020 as it suited your agenda.

I'm not the hypocrite on this here though.

You guys didn't bat an eyelid when people were dying in huge numbers of flu three years ago so where did this empathy and compassion jump out of in the past 9 months?

Not going to go back three years to see if you showed such outrage then either as no doubt you and I admittedly was blissfully unaware of increase in flu deaths three years ago.
It currently fits your agenda to go back over it but if the winters of 18/19 and 19/20 had also shown the same very high flu deaths then you'd have sufficient evidence to suggest negligence and mishandling of a virus on a scale that we're seeing right now with coronavirus with over 100K excess deaths and still counting.

I know you're against lockdown, not sure what you're for, so how many deaths are you prepared to live with so that you can restore some form of normality? 50K per annum, roughly 1K per week?

I've made the point that in 17/18 there were excess deaths of 50k in a 4 month period during the winter flu season and nobody batted an eyelid.

Lockdowns haven't worked, there will be longstanding societal issues as a result. I don't get why we accept deaths from road accidents, alcohol, flu, heart disease every year without doing more to stop them but shut the world down to stop Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on January 26, 2021, 04:23:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 03:42:56 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 03:39:15 PM
Quote
What's your alternative to lockdown?
Spend a lot more on health, and protecting the vulnerable.


That's your plan?

Spend more on health......
Protect the vulnerable......

Without lockdowns how does spending more on health prevent the spread of covid? How much is "alot more" and how would you fund it? You'd have to raise taxes and you're not stopping the spread of covid. All you're doing is maybe providing more beds for patients in hospital with covid


How have lockdowns worked?

Why are we in Lockdown no 3?

Dunno why you're throwing these questions at me. I agree with you that the last 3 lockdowns have failed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 05:00:50 PM
Quote from: five points on January 26, 2021, 04:23:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 03:42:56 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 03:39:15 PM
Quote
What's your alternative to lockdown?
Spend a lot more on health, and protecting the vulnerable.


That's your plan?

Spend more on health......
Protect the vulnerable......

Without lockdowns how does spending more on health prevent the spread of covid? How much is "alot more" and how would you fund it? You'd have to raise taxes and you're not stopping the spread of covid. All you're doing is maybe providing more beds for patients in hospital with covid

How have lockdowns worked?

Why are we in Lockdown no 3?

Dunno why you're throwing these questions at me. I agree with you that the last 3 lockdowns have failed.
[/quote]

Lockdowns work. Their purpose is to reduce case numbers and allow overworked/over run hospitals and their staff a chance to get things under control. It's what happens when lockdowns end where things are going wrong.

Dublin city centre was packed most evenings when lockdown was ended before christmas and it was as if everyone thought covid was now gone for good. People ignored social distancing, covid precautions etc. and cases got out of hand once again.

Until the vaccines are given to a significant majority of the population there is no way to avoid the cycles of lockdowns//rising cases
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on January 26, 2021, 05:18:58 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 05:00:50 PM

Lockdowns work. Their purpose is to reduce case numbers and allow overworked/over run hospitals and their staff a chance to get things under control. It's what happens when lockdowns end where things are going wrong.

Dublin city centre was packed most evenings when lockdown was ended before christmas and it was as if everyone thought covid was now gone for good. People ignored social distancing, covid precautions etc. and cases got out of hand once again.

Until the vaccines are given to a significant majority of the population there is no way to avoid the cycles of lockdowns//rising cases

You start off by saying lockdowns work and concede at the end that they don't.

Which is it?

I wasn't in Dublin last year at all, but Killarney was very busy in the summer, with no outbreaks worth talking about.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 05:33:57 PM
Quote from: five points on January 26, 2021, 05:18:58 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 05:00:50 PM

Lockdowns work. Their purpose is to reduce case numbers and allow overworked/over run hospitals and their staff a chance to get things under control. It's what happens when lockdowns end where things are going wrong.

Dublin city centre was packed most evenings when lockdown was ended before christmas and it was as if everyone thought covid was now gone for good. People ignored social distancing, covid precautions etc. and cases got out of hand once again.

Until the vaccines are given to a significant majority of the population there is no way to avoid the cycles of lockdowns//rising cases

You start off by saying lockdowns work and concede at the end that they don't.

Which is it?

I wasn't in Dublin last year at all, but Killarney was very busy in the summer, with no outbreaks worth talking about.

Was Killarney busy with tourists or locals?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on January 26, 2021, 05:35:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 05:33:57 PM
Quote from: five points on January 26, 2021, 05:18:58 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 05:00:50 PM

Lockdowns work. Their purpose is to reduce case numbers and allow overworked/over run hospitals and their staff a chance to get things under control. It's what happens when lockdowns end where things are going wrong.

Dublin city centre was packed most evenings when lockdown was ended before christmas and it was as if everyone thought covid was now gone for good. People ignored social distancing, covid precautions etc. and cases got out of hand once again.

Until the vaccines are given to a significant majority of the population there is no way to avoid the cycles of lockdowns//rising cases

You start off by saying lockdowns work and concede at the end that they don't.

Which is it?

I wasn't in Dublin last year at all, but Killarney was very busy in the summer, with no outbreaks worth talking about.

Was Killarney busy with tourists or locals?

Both. A lot of the people working there in bars etc last summer were locals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 26, 2021, 05:47:42 PM
Quote from: five points on January 26, 2021, 05:18:58 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 05:00:50 PM

Lockdowns work. Their purpose is to reduce case numbers and allow overworked/over run hospitals and their staff a chance to get things under control. It's what happens when lockdowns end where things are going wrong.

Dublin city centre was packed most evenings when lockdown was ended before christmas and it was as if everyone thought covid was now gone for good. People ignored social distancing, covid precautions etc. and cases got out of hand once again.

Until the vaccines are given to a significant majority of the population there is no way to avoid the cycles of lockdowns//rising cases

You start off by saying lockdowns work and concede at the end that they don't.

Which is it?

I wasn't in Dublin last year at all, but Killarney was very busy in the summer, with no outbreaks worth talking about.

He clearly states that it is the relaxation of restrictions when the "lockdowns end" that cause the surges in cases, which leads to further lockdowns.

Lockdown -> cases decrease ->restrictions relaxed -> cases increase -> lockdown.

If there were no outbreaks in Killarney despite crowds, they were lucky, presumably down to low community infection levels at the time last summer. Doubt if the same would hold now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 05:55:15 PM
If lockdowns work so much why are we in lockdown 3
If lockdown work so well why was our lowest death and case count during a time when no lockdown
Maybe it's a sessional thing
Numbers are dropping massively
The talk must now change to a reopening
To many on here to comfortable at home getting the 80%
True blue being one of them
What about the people whi can't make mince meat?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 05:57:48 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 05:55:15 PM
If lockdowns work so much why are we in lockdown 3
If lockdown work so well why was our lowest death and case count during a time when no lockdown
Maybe it's a sessional thing

that's a bit like saying if diets work so well then why was my lowest weight the day after I stopped the diet!
Like a diet, it is what you do afterwards that determines the long term success. If you go on a binge in both cases then you end up back where you started.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 26, 2021, 05:59:28 PM
What is the barometer of whether a lockdown is successful?

The barometer surely is whether you come out of it?

If lockdown 1 was unsuccessful we would never have come out of it! Same with 2.

3 doesn't look as successful mind you but I do think variants etc are coming into play here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 06:02:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 05:57:48 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 05:55:15 PM
If lockdowns work so much why are we in lockdown 3
If lockdown work so well why was our lowest death and case count during a time when no lockdown
Maybe it's a sessional thing

that's a bit like saying if diets work so well then why was my lowest weight the day after I stopped the diet!
Like a diet, it is what you do afterwards that determines the long term success. If you go on a binge in both cases then you end up back where you started.

This whole point has been explained multiple times previously. People who don't understand this are either stupid or dishonest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 06:04:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 26, 2021, 05:59:28 PM
What is the barometer of whether a lockdown is successful?

The barometer surely is whether you come out of it?

If lockdown 1 was unsuccessful we would never have come out of it! Same with 2.

3 doesn't look as successful mind you but I do think variants etc are coming into play here.

That's illogical. There is no rationale to what you have just said. If lockdowns worked it doesn't keep coming back. Lockdowns are not sustainable, they do not fix the problem. It's putting your thumb on a hole to fix a leak.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 26, 2021, 06:08:41 PM
It depends on the objective of the lockdown . If it was zero COVID then yes you are correct but it's not.

All we have ever done is stop gaps. That's all a lockdown is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 06:15:16 PM
Lockdowns do not work
If they worked why are we in this position
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 26, 2021, 06:16:54 PM
What position would we be in if we didn't lockdown is a bigger question for me.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 06:20:22 PM
So given Sweden had to give up on their keeping things open strategy and had to go into lockdown, does that mean the keeping open with restrictions doesn't work either. Using Angelo and Smurfy's logic?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 26, 2021, 06:20:42 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 06:20:22 PM
So given Sweden had to give up on their keeping things open strategy and had to go into lockdown, does that mean the keeping open with restrictions doesn't work either. Using Angelo and Smurfy's logic?

Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 06:15:16 PM
Lockdowns do not work
If they worked why are we in this position

Because selfish twats don't follow them. For what is worth the spring lockdown last year was excellent at suppressing numbers because people followed it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 06:24:32 PM
So he fact that selfish people don't follow lockdowns means it doesn't work
You just answered me
Only so many times you can ask people to go to the well
If lockdowns work why did our deputy minister break her own rules?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 06:29:52 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 06:24:32 PM
If lockdowns work why did our deputy minister break her own rules?

It is true that lockdowns work best with responsible people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 26, 2021, 06:37:30 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55814751

Very sobering when you scroll down to that section ' remembering the coronavirus victims'

Sad times.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 26, 2021, 06:49:12 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 06:24:32 PM
So he fact that selfish people don't follow lockdowns means it doesn't work
You just answered me
Only so many times you can ask people to go to the well
If lockdowns work why did our deputy minister break her own rules?

You'd have to ask her that.
Michelle o neill breaking lockdown rules has no bearing on the on the science behind a lockdown. It still works.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 26, 2021, 06:53:47 PM
While the death toll of 90 in the 26 counties is not good today, it reflects the high numbers 3 weeks ago, there are 928 cases today. Good to see it below 1000.
I expect they will start testing close contacts again soon. The 6 counties might usefully test a few more people, they only tested 2,363 individuals compared to 16,520 in the 26.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 26, 2021, 07:03:09 PM
The numbers are usually much higher than that. Why they have dropped so much this last few days I am not sure but the numbers have been significantly higher on average this last while in terms of testing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on January 26, 2021, 07:15:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 06:20:22 PM
So given Sweden had to give up on their keeping things open strategy and had to go into lockdown, does that mean the keeping open with restrictions doesn't work either. Using Angelo and Smurfy's logic?
Lockdown?
https://www.krisinformation.se/en/hazards-and-risks/disasters-and-incidents/2020/official-information-on-the-new-coronavirus/restriktioner-och-forbud
Ironically they have closed the border with Norway in order to protect their own citizens from any rambling rabid mutant strained Norwegians and added some other restrictions.
But there is no lockdown.
Since  the 2nd wave began, Sweden's record has been decent and since mid December  has one of the lowest 14 day death rates in europe, lower than Ireland's and now has a 14 day rate of infection running at 480 per 100,000,  Ireland's 14 day rate   (probably peaking)  at 1440 per 100,000.

it's another irony that ultra right wingnuts in USA point favorably to Sweden for its no lockdown record when by the American political right standards, Sweden is an ultra left wing radical communist repressive  state,  woked up to the eyeballs.



where Sweden seriously fckd up was with protecting the elderly in the first wave.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 08:02:04 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 26, 2021, 07:15:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 06:20:22 PM
So given Sweden had to give up on their keeping things open strategy and had to go into lockdown, does that mean the keeping open with restrictions doesn't work either. Using Angelo and Smurfy's logic?
Lockdown?
https://www.krisinformation.se/en/hazards-and-risks/disasters-and-incidents/2020/official-information-on-the-new-coronavirus/restriktioner-och-forbud
Ironically they have closed the border with Norway in order to protect their own citizens from any rambling rabid mutant strained Norwegians and added some other restrictions.
But there is no lockdown.
Since  the 2nd wave began, Sweden's record has been decent and since mid December  has one of the lowest 14 day death rates in europe, lower than Ireland's and now has a 14 day rate of infection running at 480 per 100,000,  Ireland's 14 day rate   (probably peaking)  at 1440 per 100,000.

it's another irony that ultra right wingnuts in USA point favorably to Sweden for its no lockdown record when by the American political right standards, Sweden is an ultra left wing radical communist repressive  state,  woked up to the eyeballs.



where Sweden seriously fckd up was with protecting the elderly in the first wave.

The lockdown crew won't like that.

The major issue at present is the spread in hospitals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 08:08:06 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 26, 2021, 07:15:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 06:20:22 PM
So given Sweden had to give up on their keeping things open strategy and had to go into lockdown, does that mean the keeping open with restrictions doesn't work either. Using Angelo and Smurfy's logic?
Lockdown?
https://www.krisinformation.se/en/hazards-and-risks/disasters-and-incidents/2020/official-information-on-the-new-coronavirus/restriktioner-och-forbud
Ironically they have closed the border with Norway in order to protect their own citizens from any rambling rabid mutant strained Norwegians and added some other restrictions.
But there is no lockdown.
Since  the 2nd wave began, Sweden's record has been decent and since mid December  has one of the lowest 14 day death rates in europe, lower than Ireland's and now has a 14 day rate of infection running at 480 per 100,000,  Ireland's 14 day rate   (probably peaking)  at 1440 per 100,000.

it's another irony that ultra right wingnuts in USA point favorably to Sweden for its no lockdown record when by the American political right standards, Sweden is an ultra left wing radical communist repressive  state,  woked up to the eyeballs.



where Sweden seriously fckd up was with protecting the elderly in the first wave.
They have just passed laws to be able to impose lockdown measures.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/coronavirus-swedens-new-covid-lockdown-law-takes-effect/a-56185101

I'd take that as a fairly strong confirmation that they believe their strategy didn't work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 08:10:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 08:08:06 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 26, 2021, 07:15:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 06:20:22 PM
So given Sweden had to give up on their keeping things open strategy and had to go into lockdown, does that mean the keeping open with restrictions doesn't work either. Using Angelo and Smurfy's logic?
Lockdown?
https://www.krisinformation.se/en/hazards-and-risks/disasters-and-incidents/2020/official-information-on-the-new-coronavirus/restriktioner-och-forbud
Ironically they have closed the border with Norway in order to protect their own citizens from any rambling rabid mutant strained Norwegians and added some other restrictions.
But there is no lockdown.
Since  the 2nd wave began, Sweden's record has been decent and since mid December  has one of the lowest 14 day death rates in europe, lower than Ireland's and now has a 14 day rate of infection running at 480 per 100,000,  Ireland's 14 day rate   (probably peaking)  at 1440 per 100,000.

it's another irony that ultra right wingnuts in USA point favorably to Sweden for its no lockdown record when by the American political right standards, Sweden is an ultra left wing radical communist repressive  state,  woked up to the eyeballs.



where Sweden seriously fckd up was with protecting the elderly in the first wave.
They have just passed laws to be able to impose lockdown measures.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/coronavirus-swedens-new-covid-lockdown-law-takes-effect/a-56185101

I'd take that as a fairly strong confirmation that they believe their strategy didn't work.

That article is over 2 weeks old. What restrictions have they enforced?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 08:13:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 08:10:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 08:08:06 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 26, 2021, 07:15:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 06:20:22 PM
So given Sweden had to give up on their keeping things open strategy and had to go into lockdown, does that mean the keeping open with restrictions doesn't work either. Using Angelo and Smurfy's logic?
Lockdown?
https://www.krisinformation.se/en/hazards-and-risks/disasters-and-incidents/2020/official-information-on-the-new-coronavirus/restriktioner-och-forbud
Ironically they have closed the border with Norway in order to protect their own citizens from any rambling rabid mutant strained Norwegians and added some other restrictions.
But there is no lockdown.
Since  the 2nd wave began, Sweden's record has been decent and since mid December  has one of the lowest 14 day death rates in europe, lower than Ireland's and now has a 14 day rate of infection running at 480 per 100,000,  Ireland's 14 day rate   (probably peaking)  at 1440 per 100,000.

it's another irony that ultra right wingnuts in USA point favorably to Sweden for its no lockdown record when by the American political right standards, Sweden is an ultra left wing radical communist repressive  state,  woked up to the eyeballs.



where Sweden seriously fckd up was with protecting the elderly in the first wave.
They have just passed laws to be able to impose lockdown measures.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/coronavirus-swedens-new-covid-lockdown-law-takes-effect/a-56185101

I'd take that as a fairly strong confirmation that they believe their strategy didn't work.

That article is over 2 weeks old. What restrictions have they enforced?
None yet. Do you believe they passed this law for no reason?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 08:14:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 08:10:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 08:08:06 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 26, 2021, 07:15:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 06:20:22 PM
So given Sweden had to give up on their keeping things open strategy and had to go into lockdown, does that mean the keeping open with restrictions doesn't work either. Using Angelo and Smurfy's logic?
Lockdown?
https://www.krisinformation.se/en/hazards-and-risks/disasters-and-incidents/2020/official-information-on-the-new-coronavirus/restriktioner-och-forbud
Ironically they have closed the border with Norway in order to protect their own citizens from any rambling rabid mutant strained Norwegians and added some other restrictions.
But there is no lockdown.
Since  the 2nd wave began, Sweden's record has been decent and since mid December  has one of the lowest 14 day death rates in europe, lower than Ireland's and now has a 14 day rate of infection running at 480 per 100,000,  Ireland's 14 day rate   (probably peaking)  at 1440 per 100,000.

it's another irony that ultra right wingnuts in USA point favorably to Sweden for its no lockdown record when by the American political right standards, Sweden is an ultra left wing radical communist repressive  state,  woked up to the eyeballs.



where Sweden seriously fckd up was with protecting the elderly in the first wave.
They have just passed laws to be able to impose lockdown measures.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/coronavirus-swedens-new-covid-lockdown-law-takes-effect/a-56185101

I'd take that as a fairly strong confirmation that they believe their strategy didn't work.

That article is over 2 weeks old. What restrictions have they enforced?

2 weeks? Christ the night, you're bringing up things from 2017 ffs! Unreal
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:17:46 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 08:13:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 08:10:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 08:08:06 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 26, 2021, 07:15:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 06:20:22 PM
So given Sweden had to give up on their keeping things open strategy and had to go into lockdown, does that mean the keeping open with restrictions doesn't work either. Using Angelo and Smurfy's logic?
Lockdown?
https://www.krisinformation.se/en/hazards-and-risks/disasters-and-incidents/2020/official-information-on-the-new-coronavirus/restriktioner-och-forbud
Ironically they have closed the border with Norway in order to protect their own citizens from any rambling rabid mutant strained Norwegians and added some other restrictions.
But there is no lockdown.
Since  the 2nd wave began, Sweden's record has been decent and since mid December  has one of the lowest 14 day death rates in europe, lower than Ireland's and now has a 14 day rate of infection running at 480 per 100,000,  Ireland's 14 day rate   (probably peaking)  at 1440 per 100,000.

it's another irony that ultra right wingnuts in USA point favorably to Sweden for its no lockdown record when by the American political right standards, Sweden is an ultra left wing radical communist repressive  state,  woked up to the eyeballs.



where Sweden seriously fckd up was with protecting the elderly in the first wave.
They have just passed laws to be able to impose lockdown measures.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/coronavirus-swedens-new-covid-lockdown-law-takes-effect/a-56185101

I'd take that as a fairly strong confirmation that they believe their strategy didn't work.

That article is over 2 weeks old. What restrictions have they enforced?
None yet. Do you believe they passed this law for no reason?

They passed a law that allows them to pass laws but haven't enforced any yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 26, 2021, 09:31:31 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 26, 2021, 12:09:55 PM

I don't why you bother.

I've realised there is no point debating with an idiot with things like facts and figures.

Its clear they don't have the mental capacity to understand what they are talking about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 09:32:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:17:46 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 08:13:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 08:10:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 08:08:06 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 26, 2021, 07:15:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 06:20:22 PM
So given Sweden had to give up on their keeping things open strategy and had to go into lockdown, does that mean the keeping open with restrictions doesn't work either. Using Angelo and Smurfy's logic?
Lockdown?
https://www.krisinformation.se/en/hazards-and-risks/disasters-and-incidents/2020/official-information-on-the-new-coronavirus/restriktioner-och-forbud
Ironically they have closed the border with Norway in order to protect their own citizens from any rambling rabid mutant strained Norwegians and added some other restrictions.
But there is no lockdown.
Since  the 2nd wave began, Sweden's record has been decent and since mid December  has one of the lowest 14 day death rates in europe, lower than Ireland's and now has a 14 day rate of infection running at 480 per 100,000,  Ireland's 14 day rate   (probably peaking)  at 1440 per 100,000.

it's another irony that ultra right wingnuts in USA point favorably to Sweden for its no lockdown record when by the American political right standards, Sweden is an ultra left wing radical communist repressive  state,  woked up to the eyeballs.



where Sweden seriously fckd up was with protecting the elderly in the first wave.
They have just passed laws to be able to impose lockdown measures.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/coronavirus-swedens-new-covid-lockdown-law-takes-effect/a-56185101

I'd take that as a fairly strong confirmation that they believe their strategy didn't work.

That article is over 2 weeks old. What restrictions have they enforced?
None yet. Do you believe they passed this law for no reason?

They passed a law that allows them to pass laws but haven't enforced any yet.
They passed a law as they were concerned with the level of Covid. And it sounds like they fully intend to use it.

"We see a great risk that we will be in a difficult situation for some time ahead," Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Löfven told the country's broadcaster Friday before the law's passage,  "Of course, that means the pandemic law should be utilized, and we will use it in the near term."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:42:34 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 26, 2021, 09:31:31 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 26, 2021, 12:09:55 PM

I don't why you bother.

I've realised there is no point debating with an idiot with things like facts and figures.

Its clear they don't have the mental capacity to understand what they are talking about.

Pot.

Kettle.

Black.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:43:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 09:32:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:17:46 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 08:13:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 08:10:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 08:08:06 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 26, 2021, 07:15:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 06:20:22 PM
So given Sweden had to give up on their keeping things open strategy and had to go into lockdown, does that mean the keeping open with restrictions doesn't work either. Using Angelo and Smurfy's logic?
Lockdown?
https://www.krisinformation.se/en/hazards-and-risks/disasters-and-incidents/2020/official-information-on-the-new-coronavirus/restriktioner-och-forbud
Ironically they have closed the border with Norway in order to protect their own citizens from any rambling rabid mutant strained Norwegians and added some other restrictions.
But there is no lockdown.
Since  the 2nd wave began, Sweden's record has been decent and since mid December  has one of the lowest 14 day death rates in europe, lower than Ireland's and now has a 14 day rate of infection running at 480 per 100,000,  Ireland's 14 day rate   (probably peaking)  at 1440 per 100,000.

it's another irony that ultra right wingnuts in USA point favorably to Sweden for its no lockdown record when by the American political right standards, Sweden is an ultra left wing radical communist repressive  state,  woked up to the eyeballs.



where Sweden seriously fckd up was with protecting the elderly in the first wave.
They have just passed laws to be able to impose lockdown measures.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/coronavirus-swedens-new-covid-lockdown-law-takes-effect/a-56185101

I'd take that as a fairly strong confirmation that they believe their strategy didn't work.

That article is over 2 weeks old. What restrictions have they enforced?
None yet. Do you believe they passed this law for no reason?

They passed a law that allows them to pass laws but haven't enforced any yet.
They passed a law as they were concerned with the level of Covid. And it sounds like they fully intend to use it.

"We see a great risk that we will be in a difficult situation for some time ahead," Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Löfven told the country's broadcaster Friday before the law's passage,  "Of course, that means the pandemic law should be utilized, and we will use it in the near term."

Sounds like they intend to use it and actually using it are two completely different matters.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 09:46:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:43:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 09:32:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 09:17:46 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 08:13:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 26, 2021, 08:10:38 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 08:08:06 PM
Quote from: Main Street on January 26, 2021, 07:15:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 26, 2021, 06:20:22 PM
So given Sweden had to give up on their keeping things open strategy and had to go into lockdown, does that mean the keeping open with restrictions doesn't work either. Using Angelo and Smurfy's logic?
Lockdown?
https://www.krisinformation.se/en/hazards-and-risks/disasters-and-incidents/2020/official-information-on-the-new-coronavirus/restriktioner-och-forbud
Ironically they have closed the border with Norway in order to protect their own citizens from any rambling rabid mutant strained Norwegians and added some other restrictions.
But there is no lockdown.
Since  the 2nd wave began, Sweden's record has been decent and since mid December  has one of the lowest 14 day death rates in europe, lower than Ireland's and now has a 14 day rate of infection running at 480 per 100,000,  Ireland's 14 day rate   (probably peaking)  at 1440 per 100,000.

it's another irony that ultra right wingnuts in USA point favorably to Sweden for its no lockdown record when by the American political right standards, Sweden is an ultra left wing radical communist repressive  state,  woked up to the eyeballs.



where Sweden seriously fckd up was with protecting the elderly in the first wave.
They have just passed laws to be able to impose lockdown measures.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/coronavirus-swedens-new-covid-lockdown-law-takes-effect/a-56185101

I'd take that as a fairly strong confirmation that they believe their strategy didn't work.

That article is over 2 weeks old. What restrictions have they enforced?
None yet. Do you believe they passed this law for no reason?

They passed a law that allows them to pass laws but haven't enforced any yet.
They passed a law as they were concerned with the level of Covid. And it sounds like they fully intend to use it.

"We see a great risk that we will be in a difficult situation for some time ahead," Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Löfven told the country's broadcaster Friday before the law's passage,  "Of course, that means the pandemic law should be utilized, and we will use it in the near term."

Sounds like they intend to use it and actually using it are two completely different matters.

Your right they are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 09:57:11 PM
I quote Pascal Soriot the CEO of AstraZeneca

1 dose gives 100% protection against severe disease and hospitalisation

The uk government have 30 million ok order by the last week of March in which he expects them to arrive

At what point do all restrictions in the uk lift
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 10:12:28 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 09:57:11 PM
I quote Pascal Soriot the CEO of AstraZeneca

1 dose gives 100% protection against severe disease and hospitalisation

The uk government have 30 million ok order by the last week of March in which he expects them to arrive

At what point do all restrictions in the uk lift

It will depend on a combination of factors. Numbers vaccinated, case numbers, number of people in hospital/ICU wards etc. You can't just say 50% of the population is vaccinated open everything up and end all restrictions.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 10:15:49 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 09:57:11 PM
I quote Pascal Soriot the CEO of AstraZeneca

1 dose gives 100% protection against severe disease and hospitalisation

The uk government have 30 million ok order by the last week of March in which he expects them to arrive

At what point do all restrictions in the uk lift

When Angelo tells us that the big Pharmaceutical companies have got it right!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 10:17:18 PM
Well sure when 99% people who die from the virus gets vaccinated what's to hold up?
Say all over 50s get it which is 25 million
Why wait?
Or what would be the reason to wait to open all
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 10:24:42 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 10:17:18 PM
Well sure when 99% people who die from the virus gets vaccinated what's to hold up?
Say all over 50s get it which is 25 million
Why wait?
Or what would be the reason to wait to open all

Again Angelo thinks the vaccine is a pile of shite, he'd know so let's follow him
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 26, 2021, 10:25:52 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 10:17:18 PM
Well sure when 99% people who die from the virus gets vaccinated what's to hold up?
Say all over 50s get it which is 25 million
Why wait?
Or what would be the reason to wait to open all

Some argue that the danger is that it keeps spreading among the young leading to more and more mutations that any vaccine could keep up with. As said before possibly at least 80% of a population needs vaccinated to truly put it to bed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 10:27:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 10:17:18 PM
Well sure when 99% people who die from the virus gets vaccinated what's to hold up?
Say all over 50s get it which is 25 million
Why wait?
Or what would be the reason to wait to open all

You want a simple answer and there isn't one. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

What do you think are acceptable levels to end all Covid restrictions?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 10:36:11 PM
Well as stated today by the nhs in the north that all over 60s will be vaccinated in February
I would feel by then most restrictions should lift with the exception of indoor settings for now
No house gatherings
No pubs
No restaurants
No concerts
No large crowds yet

I really don't see why the following can't reopen
Outdoors sports
Some supporters
Retail
Schools

Am i wrong here?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 26, 2021, 10:43:13 PM
It can't just be based on the numbers vaccinated. It will depend on hospital numbers, new daily cases, ICU beds occupied. If hospitals are still struggling to cope with numbers of Covid patients you can't ease restrictions.

If all these figures are low then the government can consider easing restrictions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 10:47:14 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 10:36:11 PM
Well as stated today by the nhs in the north that all over 60s will be vaccinated in February
I would feel by then most restrictions should lift with the exception of indoor settings for now
No house gatherings
No pubs
No restaurants
No concerts
No large crowds yet

I really don't see why the following can't reopen
Outdoors sports
Some supporters
Retail
Schools

Am i wrong here?

So all over 60's will be vaccinated by February? So both jabs?  Brilliant news, I haven't seen that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 10:56:50 PM
Well one dose gives you 100% protection against severe disease and hospitalisation?

What more do you want until you get the booster a few months later

Well considering the south of Ireland has dropped 261 from last night in hospital is a good sign

Still 1689 in though I would expect that to be close to 11/1200 next week
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 11:02:03 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 10:56:50 PM
Well one dose gives you 100% protection against severe disease and hospitalisation?

What more do you want until you get the booster a few months later

Well considering the south of Ireland has dropped 261 from last night in hospital is a good sign

Still 1689 in though I would expect that to be close to 11/1200 next week

Has it dropped because of lockdown?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ty4Sam on January 26, 2021, 11:13:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 10:47:14 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 10:36:11 PM
Well as stated today by the nhs in the north that all over 60s will be vaccinated in February
I would feel by then most restrictions should lift with the exception of indoor settings for now
No house gatherings
No pubs
No restaurants
No concerts
No large crowds yet

I really don't see why the following can't reopen
Outdoors sports
Some supporters
Retail
Schools

Am i wrong here?

So all over 60's will be vaccinated by February? So both jabs?  Brilliant news, I haven't seen that

They announced all over 65's will be offered first dose by end of February. Atm the are holding the second dose for up to 12 weeks so all over 65's won't be full vaccinated until approx. end of May.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 11:17:35 PM
First dose with 100% protection against severe illness and hospitalisation
Off course lockdown has worked to get it down
My point is why continue to lockdown when hospitals won't be under pressure
When you put cases low along with the vaccination why continue to lockdown
To many people getting to comfortable in lockdown
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 26, 2021, 11:17:45 PM
Quote from: Ty4Sam on January 26, 2021, 11:13:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 10:47:14 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 10:36:11 PM
Well as stated today by the nhs in the north that all over 60s will be vaccinated in February
I would feel by then most restrictions should lift with the exception of indoor settings for now
No house gatherings
No pubs
No restaurants
No concerts
No large crowds yet

I really don't see why the following can't reopen
Outdoors sports
Some supporters
Retail
Schools

Am i wrong here?

So all over 60's will be vaccinated by February? So both jabs?  Brilliant news, I haven't seen that

They announced all over 65's will be offered first dose by end of February. Atm the are holding the second dose for up to 12 weeks so all over 65's won't be full vaccinated until approx. end of May.

https://youtu.be/kUg7OO1gZk0

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 11:26:36 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 11:17:35 PM
First dose with 100% protection against severe illness and hospitalisation
Off course lockdown has worked to get it down
My point is why continue to lockdown when hospitals won't be under pressure
When you put cases low along with the vaccination why continue to lockdown
To many people getting to comfortable in lockdown

Your knowledge of the future is unreal.

Again I'll bow to Angelo's knowledge of vaccines and how they work, they apparently don't work
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 26, 2021, 11:28:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 26, 2021, 10:15:49 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 09:57:11 PM
I quote Pascal Soriot the CEO of AstraZeneca

1 dose gives 100% protection against severe disease and hospitalisation

The uk government have 30 million ok order by the last week of March in which he expects them to arrive

At what point do all restrictions in the uk lift

When Angelo tells us that the big Pharmaceutical companies have got it right!

:D ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 27, 2021, 07:17:06 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 26, 2021, 10:25:52 PM
Some argue that the danger is that it keeps spreading among the young leading to more and more mutations that any vaccine could keep up with.

BINGO.

If there is a large enough pool of people where it can continue to circulate, then it'll continue to mutate. The more people its circulating among, the more mutations can happen. The more mutations there are then the more likely it is that one of them is very bad for everyone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 27, 2021, 08:13:45 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 26, 2021, 05:59:28 PM
What is the barometer of whether a lockdown is successful?

The barometer surely is whether you come out of it?

If lockdown 1 was unsuccessful we would never have come out of it! Same with 2.

3 doesn't look as successful mind you but I do think variants etc are coming into play here.
Lockdowns are about buying time, reducing pressure on the health system and reducing incidence rates.
In the pre Christmas lockdown in London , incidence rates increased because of the new Covid variant.
So this increased pressure on the health system.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 27, 2021, 08:33:53 AM
Exactly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyroneman on January 27, 2021, 09:43:32 AM
Is there not a danger that as people get vaccinated they start to become careless about distancing, masks, handwashing etc?

Just because you are vaccinated does not mean you can't spread it, but this message may get lost, or the old 'I'm alright jack' may kick in....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 09:53:11 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 27, 2021, 07:17:06 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 26, 2021, 10:25:52 PM
Some argue that the danger is that it keeps spreading among the young leading to more and more mutations that any vaccine could keep up with.

BINGO.

If there is a large enough pool of people where it can continue to circulate, then it'll continue to mutate. The more people its circulating among, the more mutations can happen. The more mutations there are then the more likely it is that one of them is very bad for everyone.

A bit like......

Dare I say it.


The flu
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 27, 2021, 10:10:52 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 11:17:35 PM
First dose with 100% protection against severe illness and hospitalisation
Off course lockdown has worked to get it down
My point is why continue to lockdown when hospitals won't be under pressure
When you put cases low along with the vaccination why continue to lockdown
To many people getting to comfortable in lockdown
[/b]

Really? I wouldn't know any tbh

Really good news re the plan to vaccinate all over 65s by the end of Feb. Thankfully, speaking with alot of health professionals over the last month there has been a huge uptake re vaccines. Good news that the resident arsehole on here and the likes on Anne McCloskey on social media, though very loud, repetitive, dangerous and vocal are very much in the minority.

A wee weekend to Donegal on the stout (outdoor beer garden) and football is on the horizon!


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 10:23:08 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 27, 2021, 10:10:52 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 11:17:35 PM
First dose with 100% protection against severe illness and hospitalisation
Off course lockdown has worked to get it down
My point is why continue to lockdown when hospitals won't be under pressure
When you put cases low along with the vaccination why continue to lockdown
To many people getting to comfortable in lockdown
[/b]


Really good news re the plan to vaccinate all over 65s by the end of Feb. Thankfully, speaking with alot of health professionals over the last month there has been a huge uptake re vaccines. Good news that the resident arsehole on here and the likes on Anne McCloskey on social media, though very loud, repetitive, dangerous and vocal are very much in the minority.



This is the sort of dangerous, dogmatic rhetoric that is put out there from the likes of you. I have not seen one poster here who has told another poster to not get the vaccine, I have not seen one poster here who has tried to shame and abuse another poster when they have said they are getting the vaccine. On the contrary, we have the kind of nasty and small minded comments from you above.

If you're referring to me, as I have said from the very start. If someone wants to get a vaccine then I've no issue with that, that is their personal choice and they are free to do whatever pleases them.

I on the other hand have justified concerns about the vaccine and won't be taking it, as I am entitled to. I accept other people's choices but we can see from you post that you are the type of person who wants to shame and bully people into your own personal beliefs and then we see the sleekit way if which you insult a poster without the courage to name them and also how you try and misrepresent their views.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on January 27, 2021, 10:32:35 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 27, 2021, 10:10:52 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 11:17:35 PM
First dose with 100% protection against severe illness and hospitalisation
Off course lockdown has worked to get it down
My point is why continue to lockdown when hospitals won't be under pressure
When you put cases low along with the vaccination why continue to lockdown
To many people getting to comfortable in lockdown
[/b]

Really? I wouldn't know any tbh

Really good news re the plan to vaccinate all over 65s by the end of Feb. Thankfully, speaking with alot of health professionals over the last month there has been a huge uptake re vaccines. Good news that the resident arsehole on here and the likes on Anne McCloskey on social media, though very loud, repetitive, dangerous and vocal are very much in the minority.

A wee weekend to Donegal on the stout (outdoor beer garden) and football is on the horizon!
Keep talking, Im nearly there!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 27, 2021, 10:40:53 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 27, 2021, 10:32:35 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 27, 2021, 10:10:52 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 11:17:35 PM
First dose with 100% protection against severe illness and hospitalisation
Off course lockdown has worked to get it down
My point is why continue to lockdown when hospitals won't be under pressure
When you put cases low along with the vaccination why continue to lockdown
To many people getting to comfortable in lockdown
[/b]

Really? I wouldn't know any tbh

Really good news re the plan to vaccinate all over 65s by the end of Feb. Thankfully, speaking with alot of health professionals over the last month there has been a huge uptake re vaccines. Good news that the resident arsehole on here and the likes on Anne McCloskey on social media, though very loud, repetitive, dangerous and vocal are very much in the minority.

A wee weekend to Donegal on the stout (outdoor beer garden) and football is on the horizon!
Keep talking, Im nearly there!

We don't ask for much!  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 12:14:59 PM
Who the f**k are these people comfortable with lockdown??

What a load of bollocks!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2021, 02:57:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 10:23:08 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 27, 2021, 10:10:52 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 11:17:35 PM
First dose with 100% protection against severe illness and hospitalisation
Off course lockdown has worked to get it down
My point is why continue to lockdown when hospitals won't be under pressure
When you put cases low along with the vaccination why continue to lockdown
To many people getting to comfortable in lockdown
[/b]


Really good news re the plan to vaccinate all over 65s by the end of Feb. Thankfully, speaking with alot of health professionals over the last month there has been a huge uptake re vaccines. Good news that the resident arsehole on here and the likes on Anne McCloskey on social media, though very loud, repetitive, dangerous and vocal are very much in the minority.



This is the sort of dangerous, dogmatic rhetoric that is put out there from the likes of you. I have not seen one poster here who has told another poster to not get the vaccine, I have not seen one poster here who has tried to shame and abuse another poster when they have said they are getting the vaccine. On the contrary, we have the kind of nasty and small minded comments from you above.

If you're referring to me, as I have said from the very start. If someone wants to get a vaccine then I've no issue with that, that is their personal choice and they are free to do whatever pleases them.

I on the other hand have justified concerns about the vaccine and won't be taking it, as I am entitled to. I accept other people's choices but we can see from you post that you are the type of person who wants to shame and bully people into your own personal beliefs and then we see the sleekit way if which you insult a poster without the courage to name them and also how you try and misrepresent their views.

Your mate believes the first dose is 100% protection and we should all be out of lockdown because of it, can you have a word in his ear and tell him he's talking shite?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 03:04:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2021, 02:57:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 10:23:08 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 27, 2021, 10:10:52 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 11:17:35 PM
First dose with 100% protection against severe illness and hospitalisation
Off course lockdown has worked to get it down
My point is why continue to lockdown when hospitals won't be under pressure
When you put cases low along with the vaccination why continue to lockdown
To many people getting to comfortable in lockdown
[/b]


Really good news re the plan to vaccinate all over 65s by the end of Feb. Thankfully, speaking with alot of health professionals over the last month there has been a huge uptake re vaccines. Good news that the resident arsehole on here and the likes on Anne McCloskey on social media, though very loud, repetitive, dangerous and vocal are very much in the minority.



This is the sort of dangerous, dogmatic rhetoric that is put out there from the likes of you. I have not seen one poster here who has told another poster to not get the vaccine, I have not seen one poster here who has tried to shame and abuse another poster when they have said they are getting the vaccine. On the contrary, we have the kind of nasty and small minded comments from you above.

If you're referring to me, as I have said from the very start. If someone wants to get a vaccine then I've no issue with that, that is their personal choice and they are free to do whatever pleases them.

I on the other hand have justified concerns about the vaccine and won't be taking it, as I am entitled to. I accept other people's choices but we can see from you post that you are the type of person who wants to shame and bully people into your own personal beliefs and then we see the sleekit way if which you insult a poster without the courage to name them and also how you try and misrepresent their views.

Your mate believes the first dose is 100% protection and we should all be out of lockdown because of it, can you have a word in his ear and tell him he's talking shite?

I don't feel it my need to question other people's attitude toward the vaccine, they can view it as something that protects them and go off and get it if they so wish, that's their personal choice and it's not for me to say.

That's the difference between me and you, I don't try and ram my opinions on others - I am tolerant to other people's views and feel people should be so towards mine, alas you don't and try and bully and shame anyone who doesn't hold your views.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 27, 2021, 03:17:17 PM
Because their own vaccine has been slow to develop, Sanofi are going to lease their plant to Biontech. So that is another substantial increase in vaccine production for the summer. Things are going to ramp up, 2.5% in January will not mean 20% in August but probably 70%.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 27, 2021, 03:36:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 27, 2021, 03:17:17 PM
Because their own vaccine has been slow to develop, Sanofi are going to lease their plant to Biontech. So that is another substantial increase in vaccine production for the summer. Things are going to ramp up, 2.5% in January will not mean 20% in August but probably 70%.

f**k sake. Big pharma, working together, saving lives.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 03:38:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 27, 2021, 03:36:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 27, 2021, 03:17:17 PM
Because their own vaccine has been slow to develop, Sanofi are going to lease their plant to Biontech. So that is another substantial increase in vaccine production for the summer. Things are going to ramp up, 2.5% in January will not mean 20% in August but probably 70%.

f**k sake. Big pharma, working together, making profits

Fixed that for you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2021, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 03:04:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2021, 02:57:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 10:23:08 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 27, 2021, 10:10:52 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 11:17:35 PM
First dose with 100% protection against severe illness and hospitalisation
Off course lockdown has worked to get it down
My point is why continue to lockdown when hospitals won't be under pressure
When you put cases low along with the vaccination why continue to lockdown
To many people getting to comfortable in lockdown
[/b]


Really good news re the plan to vaccinate all over 65s by the end of Feb. Thankfully, speaking with alot of health professionals over the last month there has been a huge uptake re vaccines. Good news that the resident arsehole on here and the likes on Anne McCloskey on social media, though very loud, repetitive, dangerous and vocal are very much in the minority.



This is the sort of dangerous, dogmatic rhetoric that is put out there from the likes of you. I have not seen one poster here who has told another poster to not get the vaccine, I have not seen one poster here who has tried to shame and abuse another poster when they have said they are getting the vaccine. On the contrary, we have the kind of nasty and small minded comments from you above.

If you're referring to me, as I have said from the very start. If someone wants to get a vaccine then I've no issue with that, that is their personal choice and they are free to do whatever pleases them.

I on the other hand have justified concerns about the vaccine and won't be taking it, as I am entitled to. I accept other people's choices but we can see from you post that you are the type of person who wants to shame and bully people into your own personal beliefs and then we see the sleekit way if which you insult a poster without the courage to name them and also how you try and misrepresent their views.

Your mate believes the first dose is 100% protection and we should all be out of lockdown because of it, can you have a word in his ear and tell him he's talking shite?

I don't feel it my need to question other people's attitude toward the vaccine, they can view it as something that protects them and go off and get it if they so wish, that's their personal choice and it's not for me to say.

That's the difference between me and you, I don't try and ram my opinions on others - I am tolerant to other people's views and feel people should be so towards mine, alas you don't and try and bully and shame anyone who doesn't hold your views.

Oh where do I start?  ;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 04:27:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2021, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 03:04:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2021, 02:57:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 10:23:08 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 27, 2021, 10:10:52 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2021, 11:17:35 PM
First dose with 100% protection against severe illness and hospitalisation
Off course lockdown has worked to get it down
My point is why continue to lockdown when hospitals won't be under pressure
When you put cases low along with the vaccination why continue to lockdown
To many people getting to comfortable in lockdown
[/b]


Really good news re the plan to vaccinate all over 65s by the end of Feb. Thankfully, speaking with alot of health professionals over the last month there has been a huge uptake re vaccines. Good news that the resident arsehole on here and the likes on Anne McCloskey on social media, though very loud, repetitive, dangerous and vocal are very much in the minority.



This is the sort of dangerous, dogmatic rhetoric that is put out there from the likes of you. I have not seen one poster here who has told another poster to not get the vaccine, I have not seen one poster here who has tried to shame and abuse another poster when they have said they are getting the vaccine. On the contrary, we have the kind of nasty and small minded comments from you above.

If you're referring to me, as I have said from the very start. If someone wants to get a vaccine then I've no issue with that, that is their personal choice and they are free to do whatever pleases them.

I on the other hand have justified concerns about the vaccine and won't be taking it, as I am entitled to. I accept other people's choices but we can see from you post that you are the type of person who wants to shame and bully people into your own personal beliefs and then we see the sleekit way if which you insult a poster without the courage to name them and also how you try and misrepresent their views.

Your mate believes the first dose is 100% protection and we should all be out of lockdown because of it, can you have a word in his ear and tell him he's talking shite?

I don't feel it my need to question other people's attitude toward the vaccine, they can view it as something that protects them and go off and get it if they so wish, that's their personal choice and it's not for me to say.

That's the difference between me and you, I don't try and ram my opinions on others - I am tolerant to other people's views and feel people should be so towards mine, alas you don't and try and bully and shame anyone who doesn't hold your views.

Oh where do I start?  ;D ;D

Preferably with a "Sorry Angelo"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 27, 2021, 05:20:27 PM
£500 for all healthcare workers in the North as a thank you, to be confirmed once dept of finance says yes.

Thats a grand coming into my household  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on January 27, 2021, 05:20:44 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 12:14:59 PM
Who the f**k are these people comfortable with lockdown??

What a load of bollocks!!


Those who are sitting at home on furlough money not wanting it to end?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 27, 2021, 05:23:26 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 27, 2021, 05:20:27 PM
£500 for all healthcare workers in the North as a thank you, to be confirmed once dept of finance says yes.

Thats a grand coming into my household  ;D

You might even get to spend it in a shop in 2022.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 27, 2021, 05:29:56 PM
the UK had 2020 mortality 13% higher than the previous year, the biggest increase since 1929


https://www.actuaries.org.uk/news-and-insights/news/cmi-says-2020-s-13-rise-death-rates-worst-1929

the UK had 5000 excess deaths in the second week of January, 39% higher than the previous year.

https://www.actuaries.org.uk/news-and-insights/news/cmi-notes-5000-excess-deaths-week-2-2021

the French Govt says the latest restrictions are not enough and that the virus mutations are continuing to grow.

https://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2021/01/27/covid-19-le-gouvernement-etudie-differents-scenarios-face-a-un-couvre-feu-pas-suffisant_6067805_823448.html

Le couvre-feu a, selon Macron , « une efficacité relative, qui est réelle mais qui n'est pas suffisante à ce stade ». Elle « ralentit la progression du virus », mais ce dernier « continue à progresser » tandis que « les variants se développent à un rythme important ».


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 27, 2021, 05:31:13 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 27, 2021, 03:36:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 27, 2021, 03:17:17 PM
Because their own vaccine has been slow to develop, Sanofi are going to lease their plant to Biontech. So that is another substantial increase in vaccine production for the summer. Things are going to ramp up, 2.5% in January will not mean 20% in August but probably 70%.

f**k sake. Big pharma, working together, saving lives.
Angelo will sort them out when he sets up his socialist republic!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2021, 05:45:28 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 27, 2021, 05:20:27 PM
£500 for all healthcare workers in the North as a thank you, to be confirmed once dept of finance says yes.

Thats a grand coming into my household  ;D

Less tax
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2021, 05:46:39 PM
Quote from: clarshack on January 27, 2021, 05:20:44 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 27, 2021, 12:14:59 PM
Who the f**k are these people comfortable with lockdown??

What a load of bollocks!!


Those who are sitting at home on furlough money not wanting it to end?

There will be no job available to them when this ends...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 27, 2021, 05:57:47 PM
Yes to many sitting on a nice wage on furlough and do nothing
How could it not be comfortable?
Living the dream
And working from the comfort of your home for the rest
What's not to love about it
To many people on here far to comfortable
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 27, 2021, 06:09:29 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 27, 2021, 05:57:47 PM
Yes to many sitting on a nice wage on furlough and do nothing
How could it not be comfortable?
Living the dream
And working from the comfort of your home for the rest [/b]
What's not to love about it
To many people on here far to comfortable

Agreed, most days at lunch I fired up trackman and worked on the swing. Have to be match fit for when the courses open up again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 27, 2021, 06:28:39 PM
Are there many on furlough here?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 27, 2021, 07:25:47 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 27, 2021, 05:57:47 PM
Yes to many sitting on a nice wage on furlough and do nothing
How could it not be comfortable?
Living the dream
And working from the comfort of your home for the rest
What's not to love about it
To many people on here far to comfortable

Yeah, shame on anyone who has a good job, good wage and can live a comfortable lifestyle.

All this working from home nonsense has to stop too.... It's not a real job if you don't have to commute from work 🤦
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ty4Sam on January 27, 2021, 07:33:28 PM
Taoiseach tells Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party that there were about 800 people at Dublin airport yesterday - of which nearly half, 397, were returning from holiday destinations. 542 of the arrivals were Irish citizens.

And there is the problem going forward. This is in the middle of winter, from Easter into summer you can only imagine what the numbers will be for people returning from holiday destinations. All it takes is one of these people to carry a vaccine resistant variant back and we are back into another full lockdown for a very long time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 27, 2021, 08:14:34 PM
And why is it a problem now with people returning?
Wasn't a problem 2 months ago when the knew the uk variant existed but kept it under wraps
It exists on these islands anyway.
What's to stop someone carrying it on a bus
Yet our leader in the South is open to travelling to America for St Patrick's day
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 27, 2021, 08:30:50 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 27, 2021, 08:14:34 PM
And why is it a problem now with people returning?
Wasn't a problem 2 months ago when theknew the uk variant existed but kept it under wraps
It exists on these islands anyway.
What's to stop someone carrying it on a bus
Yet our leader in the South is open to travelling to America for St Patrick's day

Ar you saying the government/big pharma new about the more contagious UK strains but deliberately kept the info from everyone in some sort of conspiracy?

Can you show us how you found out about this conspiracy?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 08:39:46 PM
The new variant nonsense is a complete cod.

The fatality rate is 13 in 10,0000 compared to 10 in 10,000.

The reason the virus fast and wide at Christmas spread is due to seasonality much like why flu spikes every winter.

We came out of lockdown around May/June last year and things didn't start to spike again until October.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 27, 2021, 09:53:10 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 27, 2021, 08:14:34 PM
And why is it a problem now with people returning?
Wasn't a problem 2 months ago when the knew the uk variant existed but kept it under wraps

'cos they are a shower of dumb c**ts.

It did matter 2 months ago and it mattered even more 9 months ago. Yet they did fukk all squared.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2021, 10:46:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 08:39:46 PM
The new variant nonsense is a complete cod.

The fatality rate is 13 in 10,0000 compared to 10 in 10,000.

The reason the virus fast and wide at Christmas spread is due to seasonality much like why flu spikes every winter.

We came out of lockdown around May/June last year and things didn't start to spike again until October.

So is it flu or Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mouview on January 27, 2021, 11:03:16 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-investigate-large-gathering-at-house-after-wexford-funeral-1.4469537

Typical.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 28, 2021, 07:33:14 AM
Large gatherings inside and breaking the rules like that are just not acceptable
I urge for some restrictions to be lifted but certainly not indoor gatherings like that
95% of people will go with the rules but the 5% that don't is they 5% that we hear off. They are certainly in the minority
When I say some restrictions should be lifted I mean
Outdoor retail
Outdoor sports
Outdoor cafes


I phased reopening on March 5th

Then look at things every 3 weeks

Say the start of April then
Indoor cafes under correct social distancing measures
Gyms
Indoor retail


They say May
Restaurants


Then June
Pubs and travel

That's the sort of phased return I talk about

To just come on here and say keep lockdown is lazy

Numbers are dropping dramatically
Hospital numbers in the south have dropped 336 in 72 hours
You can't ignore that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 28, 2021, 08:01:09 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 28, 2021, 07:33:14 AM
Large gatherings inside and breaking the rules like that are just not acceptable
I urge for some restrictions to be lifted but certainly not indoor gatherings like that
95% of people will go with the rules but the 5% that don't is they 5% that we hear off. They are certainly in the minority
When I say some restrictions should be lifted I mean
Outdoor retail
Outdoor sports
Outdoor cafes


I phased reopening on March 5th

Then look at things every 3 weeks

Say the start of April then
Indoor cafes under correct social distancing measures
Gyms
Indoor retail


They say May
Restaurants


Then June
Pubs and travel

That's the sort of phased return I talk about

To just come on here and say keep lockdown is lazy

Numbers are dropping dramatically
Hospital numbers in the south have dropped 336 in 72 hours
You can't ignore that
Summer would also have to be planned so it doesn't seed infections in Autumn.
Covid is a hoor,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 28, 2021, 08:03:32 AM
Everyone get vaccinated and we should open up fully.

I see New Zealand will continue to close its borders, the country is thriving internally.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 28, 2021, 09:35:01 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2021, 10:46:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 27, 2021, 08:39:46 PM
The new variant nonsense is a complete cod.

The fatality rate is 13 in 10,0000 compared to 10 in 10,000.

The reason the virus fast and wide at Christmas spread is due to seasonality much like why flu spikes every winter.

We came out of lockdown around May/June last year and things didn't start to spike again until October.

So is it flu or Covid?

Definitely seems to have the same seasonality impacts as flu. We began to start to ease back restrictions at around the end of May last year if I recall correctly and cases did not start to rise again until October. Clearly Oct-Mar is the danger time for the virus.

Look we will know by summer time where we stand, by that point everyone will have monitored what has happened in Israel and how effective the vaccine has been or has not been.

This thing of rolling lockdowns is for the birds though, when the first lockdown was down - governments should have got their house in order, they failed and used lockdowns as a measure to shift the blame to the people for not complying. The damage these subsequent lockdowns have done are huge and the results of them will only come to light later on in the year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 28, 2021, 09:43:04 AM
There was a UK expert on the radio this morning to discuss the vaccination process in the UK. He was asked about re-opening the country in March given the numbers they expect to have vaccinated by then. He said some restrictions would be eased but they had to be careful. While the majority of the older age groups are expected to get the vaccine the take up among younger people is expected to be much lower and while it's less dangerous to them they can still carry and transmit the virus to others. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 28, 2021, 09:44:36 AM
Booking system now open for the over 65s in the North.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on January 28, 2021, 09:53:48 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 28, 2021, 09:44:36 AM
Booking system now open for the over 65s in the North.

Got my mother booked in for tomorrow at the Royal, she's delighted, hasn't been out much this past year, hopefully this gives her a wee boost. They sent her a confirmation message straight away which also has her date and time for the 2nd jab which is 9th April so 10 weeks between them, some good news, we are getting there
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 28, 2021, 10:01:07 AM
My oul fella gets his today..happiest I've seen him in months !
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 28, 2021, 10:05:06 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on January 28, 2021, 09:53:48 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 28, 2021, 09:44:36 AM
Booking system now open for the over 65s in the North.

Got my mother booked in for tomorrow at the Royal, she's delighted, hasn't been out much this past year, hopefully this gives her a wee boost. They sent her a confirmation message straight away which also has her date and time for the 2nd jab which is 9th April so 10 weeks between them, some good news, we are getting there

I got mine at the Royal and its a very good set up. though try and get there for about 10 minutes before the time slot. They will only take in people at their time allocation. There is a guy at the door who'll shout down the line when the time slot is open, just need the ID and if she was asked for other information have it also.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on January 28, 2021, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 28, 2021, 10:05:06 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on January 28, 2021, 09:53:48 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 28, 2021, 09:44:36 AM
Booking system now open for the over 65s in the North.

Got my mother booked in for tomorrow at the Royal, she's delighted, hasn't been out much this past year, hopefully this gives her a wee boost. They sent her a confirmation message straight away which also has her date and time for the 2nd jab which is 9th April so 10 weeks between them, some good news, we are getting there

I got mine at the Royal and its a very good set up. though try and get there for about 10 minutes before the time slot. They will only take in people at their time allocation. There is a guy at the door who'll shout down the line when the time slot is open, just need the ID and if she was asked for other information have it also.

Cheers, I said id take her to get it so il make sure she has everything before she gets out. hopefully the uptake for the vaccine is good and we start getting out of this thing, we're nearly there and hopefully people who have been really down and struggling see this as the boost they need that there is light at the end of the tunnel
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bigarsedkeeper on January 28, 2021, 10:22:50 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on January 28, 2021, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 28, 2021, 10:05:06 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on January 28, 2021, 09:53:48 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 28, 2021, 09:44:36 AM
Booking system now open for the over 65s in the North.

Got my mother booked in for tomorrow at the Royal, she's delighted, hasn't been out much this past year, hopefully this gives her a wee boost. They sent her a confirmation message straight away which also has her date and time for the 2nd jab which is 9th April so 10 weeks between them, some good news, we are getting there

I got mine at the Royal and its a very good set up. though try and get there for about 10 minutes before the time slot. They will only take in people at their time allocation. There is a guy at the door who'll shout down the line when the time slot is open, just need the ID and if she was asked for other information have it also.

Cheers, I said id take her to get it so il make sure she has everything before she gets out. hopefully the uptake for the vaccine is good and we start getting out of this thing, we're nearly there and hopefully people who have been really down and struggling see this as the boost they need that there is light at the end of the tunnel

My mother got hers this week too, it was at Banbridge Rugby club. Drive through, don't even get out of the car. I wasn't there but by all accounts it's working well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 28, 2021, 10:23:54 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on January 28, 2021, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 28, 2021, 10:05:06 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on January 28, 2021, 09:53:48 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 28, 2021, 09:44:36 AM
Booking system now open for the over 65s in the North.

Got my mother booked in for tomorrow at the Royal, she's delighted, hasn't been out much this past year, hopefully this gives her a wee boost. They sent her a confirmation message straight away which also has her date and time for the 2nd jab which is 9th April so 10 weeks between them, some good news, we are getting there

I got mine at the Royal and its a very good set up. though try and get there for about 10 minutes before the time slot. They will only take in people at their time allocation. There is a guy at the door who'll shout down the line when the time slot is open, just need the ID and if she was asked for other information have it also.

Cheers, I said id take her to get it so il make sure she has everything before she gets out. hopefully the uptake for the vaccine is good and we start getting out of this thing, we're nearly there and hopefully people who have been really down and struggling see this as the boost they need that there is light at the end of the tunnel

Brilliant men. My folks booked in as well, they are delighted too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on January 28, 2021, 10:31:00 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 28, 2021, 09:43:04 AM
There was a UK expert on the radio this morning to discuss the vaccination process in the UK. He was asked about re-opening the country in March given the numbers they expect to have vaccinated by then. He said some restrictions would be eased but they had to be careful. While the majority of the older age groups are expected to get the vaccine the take up among younger people is expected to be much lower and while it's less dangerous to them they can still carry and transmit the virus to others.

This is what I don't quite get .... if the vulnerable group have the vaccine, why the need to be concerned about anyone carrying the virus?  I know the vaccine isn't 100% but it isn't far off from what they say, or are they not sure about how long it will last.

If every vulnerable person has the vaccine, I'd hoped we'd be back to normal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 28, 2021, 10:37:44 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 28, 2021, 10:31:00 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 28, 2021, 09:43:04 AM
There was a UK expert on the radio this morning to discuss the vaccination process in the UK. He was asked about re-opening the country in March given the numbers they expect to have vaccinated by then. He said some restrictions would be eased but they had to be careful. While the majority of the older age groups are expected to get the vaccine the take up among younger people is expected to be much lower and while it's less dangerous to them they can still carry and transmit the virus to others.

This is what I don't quite get .... if the vulnerable group have the vaccine, why the need to be concerned about anyone carrying the virus?  I know the vaccine isn't 100% but it isn't far off from what they say, or are they not sure about how long it will last.

If every vulnerable person has the vaccine, I'd hoped we'd be back to normal.

For most people it'll be April before most get the second jab..

I'd like things opening up as soon as possible, March might be that point. Fingers crossed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 28, 2021, 10:42:40 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 28, 2021, 10:31:00 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 28, 2021, 09:43:04 AM
There was a UK expert on the radio this morning to discuss the vaccination process in the UK. He was asked about re-opening the country in March given the numbers they expect to have vaccinated by then. He said some restrictions would be eased but they had to be careful. While the majority of the older age groups are expected to get the vaccine the take up among younger people is expected to be much lower and while it's less dangerous to them they can still carry and transmit the virus to others.

This is what I don't quite get .... if the vulnerable group have the vaccine, why the need to be concerned about anyone carrying the virus?  I know the vaccine isn't 100% but it isn't far off from what they say, or are they not sure about how long it will last.

If every vulnerable person has the vaccine, I'd hoped we'd be back to normal.

We don't really know enough about the vaccine yet.

It will likely be summertime and countries will be using Israel as a guage on how effective the vaccine has been, AFAIK they will have all their adult population fully vaccinated by the end of March.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on January 28, 2021, 11:23:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 28, 2021, 10:37:44 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 28, 2021, 10:31:00 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 28, 2021, 09:43:04 AM
There was a UK expert on the radio this morning to discuss the vaccination process in the UK. He was asked about re-opening the country in March given the numbers they expect to have vaccinated by then. He said some restrictions would be eased but they had to be careful. While the majority of the older age groups are expected to get the vaccine the take up among younger people is expected to be much lower and while it's less dangerous to them they can still carry and transmit the virus to others.

This is what I don't quite get .... if the vulnerable group have the vaccine, why the need to be concerned about anyone carrying the virus?  I know the vaccine isn't 100% but it isn't far off from what they say, or are they not sure about how long it will last.

If every vulnerable person has the vaccine, I'd hoped we'd be back to normal.

For most people it'll be April before most get the second jab..

I'd like things opening up as soon as possible, March might be that point. Fingers crossed

There's still not enough information out there as to the level of immunity from one jab, how long it takes to develop and then when they get the second jab how long it takes to get the immunity up to the high 90's as expected.

Feckin hate these Tory MPs like Bridgen on Talkback yesterday saying they've vaccinated all over 75's in the UK when they've only got the first jab..

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 28, 2021, 11:29:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 28, 2021, 11:23:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 28, 2021, 10:37:44 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 28, 2021, 10:31:00 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 28, 2021, 09:43:04 AM
There was a UK expert on the radio this morning to discuss the vaccination process in the UK. He was asked about re-opening the country in March given the numbers they expect to have vaccinated by then. He said some restrictions would be eased but they had to be careful. While the majority of the older age groups are expected to get the vaccine the take up among younger people is expected to be much lower and while it's less dangerous to them they can still carry and transmit the virus to others.

This is what I don't quite get .... if the vulnerable group have the vaccine, why the need to be concerned about anyone carrying the virus?  I know the vaccine isn't 100% but it isn't far off from what they say, or are they not sure about how long it will last.

If every vulnerable person has the vaccine, I'd hoped we'd be back to normal.

For most people it'll be April before most get the second jab..

I'd like things opening up as soon as possible, March might be that point. Fingers crossed

There's still not enough information out there as to the level of immunity from one jab, how long it takes to develop and then when they get the second jab how long it takes to get the immunity up to the high 90's as expected.

Feckin hate these Tory MPs like Bridgen on Talkback yesterday saying they've vaccinated all over 75's in the UK when they've only got the first jab..

It's a great soundbite though... But anything is better than nothing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 28, 2021, 11:42:34 AM
I don't think any tory MP seems capable of doing an interview where there is not at least on "untruth" in it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 28, 2021, 01:15:42 PM
Doesn't look good for Oxford AZ......


https://www.ft.com/content/e5b64f87-6f2b-3097-b04a-bb76c013a284
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on January 28, 2021, 02:03:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 28, 2021, 01:15:42 PM
Doesn't look good for Oxford AZ......


https://www.ft.com/content/e5b64f87-6f2b-3097-b04a-bb76c013a284

Thought the Germans killed that story....

https://www.businessinsider.com/oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-older-people-study-effective-german-government-2021-1?r=US&IR=T (https://www.businessinsider.com/oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-older-people-study-effective-german-government-2021-1?r=US&IR=T)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on January 28, 2021, 02:20:17 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 28, 2021, 02:03:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 28, 2021, 01:15:42 PM
Doesn't look good for Oxford AZ......


https://www.ft.com/content/e5b64f87-6f2b-3097-b04a-bb76c013a284

Thought the Germans killed that story....

https://www.businessinsider.com/oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-older-people-study-effective-german-government-2021-1?r=US&IR=T (https://www.businessinsider.com/oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-older-people-study-effective-german-government-2021-1?r=US&IR=T)

Smells like politics, and muscle flexing to me (no basis for such an opinion btw) - especially with the ongoing row with supply from OAZ to the EU.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: weareros on January 28, 2021, 02:23:07 PM
The AstraZeneca vaccine always looked iffy. The EU and U.K. seem to be fighting over the ugliest girl at the dance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 28, 2021, 02:34:39 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 28, 2021, 02:03:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 28, 2021, 01:15:42 PM
Doesn't look good for Oxford AZ......


https://www.ft.com/content/e5b64f87-6f2b-3097-b04a-bb76c013a284

Thought the Germans killed that story....

https://www.businessinsider.com/oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-older-people-study-effective-german-government-2021-1?r=US&IR=T (https://www.businessinsider.com/oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-older-people-study-effective-german-government-2021-1?r=US&IR=T)

So its grand? Phew, all depends where you read about it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 28, 2021, 02:35:44 PM
Israel (i know..I know) have said that out of 715K who received both doses, only 315 went onto test positive again and out of that only 16 were hospitalised.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 28, 2021, 02:42:22 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 28, 2021, 02:35:44 PM
Israel (i know..I know) have said that out of 715K who received both doses, only 315 went onto test positive again and out of that only 16 were hospitalised.

Which vaccine was this?
Also even the second dose might not reach maximum effectiveness for a few weeks after you get it and few people have had it that long in Israel yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 28, 2021, 02:47:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 28, 2021, 02:42:22 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 28, 2021, 02:35:44 PM
Israel (i know..I know) have said that out of 715K who received both doses, only 315 went onto test positive again and out of that only 16 were hospitalised.

Which vaccine was this?
Also even the second dose might not reach maximum effectiveness for a few weeks after you get it and few people have had it that long in Israel yet.

Someone had posted a statement from their health spokesperson. I 'think' they are currently using the pfizer vaccine??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 28, 2021, 04:38:18 PM
Each country will be different and remains to be seen which will be right.

I can understand the Germans call to wait on the higher efficacy rate for their high risks groups but those waiting could pick up this virus and die.

Mad to think there is an option to choose when many didn't think any vaccines would be available this soon. Johnson and Johnson might be the best one yet? Can be stored in normal fridges and one dose instead of two. Vaccinations should be really ramped up once that becomes available
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 28, 2021, 05:14:18 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 28, 2021, 02:47:14 PM
Someone had posted a statement from their health spokesperson. I 'think' they are currently using the pfizer vaccine??

I think Isreal use more than one vaccine, which is how they got so much done. However, this experiment was on Pfizer vaccine. This is encouraging, the thing pretty much works after the second dose.
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/israel-shows-promising-results-from-pfizer-vaccination-campaign-657051
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on January 28, 2021, 05:52:30 PM
Its barely a month from the All Ireland final and by f**k it feels like we have been locked down for 6 months.  :'(

Looking like April start for National League and we may not even be fully out of lockdown for then.

It goes slow when there is no GAA to watch or look forward to
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 28, 2021, 06:07:21 PM
I would agree with this. The Gaa gave us something to look forward to at weekends and talk about. I follow the premiership but it's just not the same.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 28, 2021, 06:11:06 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on January 28, 2021, 02:20:17 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 28, 2021, 02:03:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 28, 2021, 01:15:42 PM
Doesn't look good for Oxford AZ......


https://www.ft.com/content/e5b64f87-6f2b-3097-b04a-bb76c013a284

Thought the Germans killed that story....

https://www.businessinsider.com/oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-older-people-study-effective-german-government-2021-1?r=US&IR=T (https://www.businessinsider.com/oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-older-people-study-effective-german-government-2021-1?r=US&IR=T)

Smells like politics, and muscle flexing to me (no basis for such an opinion btw) - especially with the ongoing row with supply from OAZ to the EU.
Thought there was a whiff of Brexit wars as well myself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 28, 2021, 09:26:34 PM
Quote from: balladmaker on January 28, 2021, 10:31:00 AM
This is what I don't quite get .... if the vulnerable group have the vaccine, why the need to be concerned about anyone carrying the virus?

'cos they offer a breeding ground for mutations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 29, 2021, 07:31:22 AM
So the narrative has changed
We can't ignore the overall improvement in Ireland
Hospital occupancy in the south is dropping very fast. It has went from 2000 to just above 1500 in 4 days. Expect this time next week to be 1000
That's 50% of the peak. What that tells me is patients are in with mild enough sickness
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 07:50:42 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 29, 2021, 07:31:22 AM
So the narrative has changed
We can't ignore the overall improvement in Ireland
Hospital occupancy in the south is dropping very fast. It has went from 2000 to just above 1500 in 4 days. Expect this time next week to be 1000
That's 50% of the peak. What that tells me is patients are in with mild enough sickness

Mild? If I'd a mild condition I wouldn't expect to be hospitalised
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 29, 2021, 08:03:06 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 29, 2021, 07:31:22 AM
So the narrative has changed
We can't ignore the overall improvement in Ireland
Hospital occupancy in the south is dropping very fast. It has went from 2000 to just above 1500 in 4 days. Expect this time next week to be 1000
That's 50% of the peak. What that tells me is patients are in with mild enough sickness

Hospitals were almost at breaking point and one hospital (Letterkenny I think) was treating patients in an ambulance as they had no room so they're not going to be admitting anyone for "mild enough sickness" as you put it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on January 29, 2021, 09:49:21 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 29, 2021, 07:31:22 AM
So the narrative has changed
We can't ignore the overall improvement in Ireland
Hospital occupancy in the south is dropping very fast. It has went from 2000 to just above 1500 in 4 days. Expect this time next week to be 1000
That's 50% of the peak. What that tells me is patients are in with mild enough sickness
It is almost as if you enjoy the cycle of lockdowns. The half arsed efforts of November and December have left us where we are and you want to open up early so we can almost certainly guarantee a spike and stretch out this period of lockdowns.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 29, 2021, 09:58:06 AM

Covid-19: Novavax vaccine shows 89% efficacy in UK trials
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55850352
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on January 29, 2021, 10:14:49 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 29, 2021, 07:31:22 AM
So the narrative has changed
We can't ignore the overall improvement in Ireland
Hospital occupancy in the south is dropping very fast. It has went from 2000 to just above 1500 in 4 days. Expect this time next week to be 1000
That's 50% of the peak. What that tells me is patients are in with mild enough sickness

People are in with mild enough sickness!? What about the hundreds that have died in the last 6 weeks and the 200 plus in ICU? Do you really think they're filling the hospitals up with people with mild illnesses? If anything the amount of people that have been ill enough to make it to hospital and recovering is a sign of the improved drugs available to treat the illness.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 10:23:20 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on January 29, 2021, 10:14:49 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 29, 2021, 07:31:22 AM
So the narrative has changed
We can't ignore the overall improvement in Ireland
Hospital occupancy in the south is dropping very fast. It has went from 2000 to just above 1500 in 4 days. Expect this time next week to be 1000
That's 50% of the peak. What that tells me is patients are in with mild enough sickness

People are in with mild enough sickness!? What about the hundreds that have died in the last 6 weeks and the 200 plus in ICU? Do you really think they're filling the hospitals up with people with mild illnesses? If anything the amount of people that have been ill enough to make it to hospital and recovering is a sign of the improved drugs available to treat the illness.

The main issue which continues to be buried is the amount of patients who are not admitted for Covid but end up contracting the virus is a hospital setting. This is absolutely scandalous and is not being reported on to effect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 29, 2021, 10:27:37 AM
There is a very good reason for that Angelo.

Complaince is waning, just think what will happen if the news all of sudden reports that most people who go into hospital get it from there.

The save the health service message dies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 29, 2021, 10:29:53 AM
Reading that another medicine being developed in Ireland by a US/Canadian company that can prevent covid from developing into a serious illness and stops the transmission which also looks encouraging.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 10:46:03 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 29, 2021, 10:27:37 AM
There is a very good reason for that Angelo.

Complaince is waning, just think what will happen if the news all of sudden reports that most people who go into hospital get it from there.

The save the health service message dies.

So the government shifts the blame to the people to cover their own failings?

This should be major news, there are many people impacted by lockdowns and is the reason for lockdowns and all these restrictions that are having a huge effect on people's lives more government incompetence than anything else?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on January 29, 2021, 10:51:32 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 29, 2021, 10:27:37 AM
There is a very good reason for that Angelo.

Complaince is waning, just think what will happen if the news all of sudden reports that most people who go into hospital get it from there.

The save the health service message dies.

The same cover-up was going on last spring when compliance levels were high. I know of people who died as a result of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 29, 2021, 11:07:22 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 10:46:03 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 29, 2021, 10:27:37 AM
There is a very good reason for that Angelo.

Complaince is waning, just think what will happen if the news all of sudden reports that most people who go into hospital get it from there.

The save the health service message dies.

So the government shifts the blame to the people to cover their own failings?

This should be major news, there are many people impacted by lockdowns and is the reason for lockdowns and all these restrictions that are having a huge effect on people's lives more government incompetence than anything else?

That's the reality of life, that's what they've always done. Sooner or later the people will get pushed too far by that message. I can see it coming, maybe not this month or next, but basically everyone and everything has been locked up that can be.

The Govt have little to no wriggle room from here. I expect you'll soon start to hear a different tune coming. You don't hear them talk much about track and trace anymore, it's shifted to "the vaccine is the way out".

Why should the vaccine have ever been the way out? Track and trace was supposed to fill the void and get the show on the road after the first lockdown and it was an abysmal failure.

There is nothing wrong with questioning your Government. In some respects, I think this might be the thing that finally breaks up Green and Orange politics in the North. I've never seen such unison in their distain between both to Stormont as right now. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 11:49:53 AM
Up to 18% is being caught in hospitals in various different areas, my own mother in law (whos was in for open heart surgery) caught it in hospital, luckily for her see developed no symptoms and only for going for an operation would never have known she caught it.

So there are a few ways of looking at this, the hospitals are over run and seriously under funded to put measures in place to stop the spread of covid

Staff are under pressure and at the end of the shift have to go home and still do the normal things that people outside of these jobs do, and most people are catching this outside of the hospital, so the main source of infection is transmission locally.

Is the virus that potent that whatever measures are put in place in hospitals its managing to thrive in those conditions? So, indoors, vulnerable people, weak immune systems, I could go on.. Its not the best place to combat a deadly virus

The problems are vast, there is no easy fix to stop transmission within that type of environment.

The government (all of them, Labour, Tories) have all dropped the ball with putting money back into the NHS, this is a problem before covid and highlighted even more so now.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 11:58:19 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 29, 2021, 11:07:22 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 10:46:03 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 29, 2021, 10:27:37 AM
There is a very good reason for that Angelo.

Complaince is waning, just think what will happen if the news all of sudden reports that most people who go into hospital get it from there.

The save the health service message dies.

So the government shifts the blame to the people to cover their own failings?

This should be major news, there are many people impacted by lockdowns and is the reason for lockdowns and all these restrictions that are having a huge effect on people's lives more government incompetence than anything else?

That's the reality of life, that's what they've always done. Sooner or later the people will get pushed too far by that message. I can see it coming, maybe not this month or next, but basically everyone and everything has been locked up that can be.

The Govt have little to no wriggle room from here. I expect you'll soon start to hear a different tune coming. You don't hear them talk much about track and trace anymore, it's shifted to "the vaccine is the way out".

Why should the vaccine have ever been the way out? Track and trace was supposed to fill the void and get the show on the road after the first lockdown and it was an abysmal failure.

There is nothing wrong with questioning your Government. In some respects, I think this might be the thing that finally breaks up Green and Orange politics in the North. I've never seen such unison in their distain between both to Stormont as right now.

It's going to build.

There has already been mass protests in the Netherlands and Greece with huge amounts of people out on the streets. Businesses in Italy are now going to start defying lockdown measures. The people have had enough really, for the most part we have done our bit. We have locked ourselves away for the guts of a year while governments made the wrong choices/sat on their arses/tried to shift the blame on the people. There is growing discontent, whether it will spread to that level over here I don't know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on January 29, 2021, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 11:58:19 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 29, 2021, 11:07:22 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 10:46:03 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 29, 2021, 10:27:37 AM
There is a very good reason for that Angelo.

Complaince is waning, just think what will happen if the news all of sudden reports that most people who go into hospital get it from there.

The save the health service message dies.

So the government shifts the blame to the people to cover their own failings?

This should be major news, there are many people impacted by lockdowns and is the reason for lockdowns and all these restrictions that are having a huge effect on people's lives more government incompetence than anything else?

That's the reality of life, that's what they've always done. Sooner or later the people will get pushed too far by that message. I can see it coming, maybe not this month or next, but basically everyone and everything has been locked up that can be.

The Govt have little to no wriggle room from here. I expect you'll soon start to hear a different tune coming. You don't hear them talk much about track and trace anymore, it's shifted to "the vaccine is the way out".

Why should the vaccine have ever been the way out? Track and trace was supposed to fill the void and get the show on the road after the first lockdown and it was an abysmal failure.

There is nothing wrong with questioning your Government. In some respects, I think this might be the thing that finally breaks up Green and Orange politics in the North. I've never seen such unison in their distain between both to Stormont as right now.

It's going to build.

There has already been mass protests in the Netherlands and Greece with huge amounts of people out on the streets. Businesses in Italy are now going to start defying lockdown measures. The people have had enough really, for the most part we have done our bit. We have locked ourselves away for the guts of a year while governments made the wrong choices/sat on their arses/tried to shift the blame on the people. There is growing discontent, whether it will spread to that level over here I don't know.

The evidence is clear as to what happens when people let their guard down and freely mix indoors from Christmas. Massive spike in number and deaths.

So far in the North in the first 3 weeks of January there have been 294 deaths above the 5 year average for those weeks (and that includes the famous flu season that you keep referring to). That is a 25 per cent increase on the average.

That has come on the back of people letting their guard down a bit for a few weeks over Christmas. But it still wasn't mixing like would normally be done. Imagine the chaos if everyone stopped wearing masks, stopped keeping distance, started mixing freely in large numbers in crowded bars/concerts, packed into indoor offices, visited extended family etc. Those numbers came on the back of people mainly only mixing with immediate family and bars etc closed.

If the government did what some people called for and opened everything up. Hospitals wouldn't cope and there would be huge excess death. Then the same people would come back complaining about the government letting it happen despite warnings from health officials.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 01:18:39 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on January 29, 2021, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 11:58:19 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 29, 2021, 11:07:22 AM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 10:46:03 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on January 29, 2021, 10:27:37 AM
There is a very good reason for that Angelo.

Complaince is waning, just think what will happen if the news all of sudden reports that most people who go into hospital get it from there.

The save the health service message dies.

So the government shifts the blame to the people to cover their own failings?

This should be major news, there are many people impacted by lockdowns and is the reason for lockdowns and all these restrictions that are having a huge effect on people's lives more government incompetence than anything else?

That's the reality of life, that's what they've always done. Sooner or later the people will get pushed too far by that message. I can see it coming, maybe not this month or next, but basically everyone and everything has been locked up that can be.

The Govt have little to no wriggle room from here. I expect you'll soon start to hear a different tune coming. You don't hear them talk much about track and trace anymore, it's shifted to "the vaccine is the way out".

Why should the vaccine have ever been the way out? Track and trace was supposed to fill the void and get the show on the road after the first lockdown and it was an abysmal failure.

There is nothing wrong with questioning your Government. In some respects, I think this might be the thing that finally breaks up Green and Orange politics in the North. I've never seen such unison in their distain between both to Stormont as right now.

It's going to build.

There has already been mass protests in the Netherlands and Greece with huge amounts of people out on the streets. Businesses in Italy are now going to start defying lockdown measures. The people have had enough really, for the most part we have done our bit. We have locked ourselves away for the guts of a year while governments made the wrong choices/sat on their arses/tried to shift the blame on the people. There is growing discontent, whether it will spread to that level over here I don't know.

The evidence is clear as to what happens when people let their guard down and freely mix indoors from Christmas. Massive spike in number and deaths.

So far in the North in the first 3 weeks of January there have been 294 deaths above the 5 year average for those weeks (and that includes the famous flu season that you keep referring to). That is a 25 per cent increase on the average.

That has come on the back of people letting their guard down a bit for a few weeks over Christmas. But it still wasn't mixing like would normally be done. Imagine the chaos if everyone stopped wearing masks, stopped keeping distance, started mixing freely in large numbers in crowded bars/concerts, packed into indoor offices, visited extended family etc. Those numbers came on the back of people mainly only mixing with immediate family and bars etc closed.

If the government did what some people called for and opened everything up. Hospitals wouldn't cope and there would be huge excess death. Then the same people would come back complaining about the government letting it happen despite warnings from health officials.

The figures are clear, the virus poses little threat to the population under 60, absolutely minimal threat to the population under 40. The at risk category are the elderly and underlying health conditions so when the virus spreads so quickly in hospitals to people who are in the most vulnerable category then it is a national scandal and one that seems to have been buried.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on January 29, 2021, 01:29:14 PM
When you let it spread widely in the community it's probably virtually impossible to keep it out of hospitals. And once people are in hospitals in a busy indoor environment it's going to spread. The best way to keep it out of the hospitals is to reduce spread in the community through various measures including lockdown type laws when necessary.

And people shouldn't be losing their lives too soon whether they're 60 or 30. A 65 year old could have 15 good years left to spend with their family and enjoy their retirement etc. Their life isn't any less valuable than anyone else's.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on January 29, 2021, 01:29:14 PM
When you let it spread widely in the community it's probably virtually impossible to keep it out of hospitals. And once people are in hospitals in a busy indoor environment it's going to spread. The best way to keep it out of the hospitals is to reduce spread in the community through various measures including lockdown type laws when necessary.

And people shouldn't be losing their lives too soon whether they're 60 or 30. A 65 year old could have 15 good years left to spend with their family and enjoy their retirement etc. Their life isn't any less valuable than anyone else's.

Of course but you are neglecting and deflecting away from the fact of the spread in hospitals. There are no excuses for that, it's a scandal and has cost lives but hey it's easier to put the blame on the people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on January 29, 2021, 01:43:35 PM
Hopefully.....hopefully.....this thread will be dead before we get to 1000 pages of near insanity.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-johnson-johnsons-single-shot-vaccine-85-effective-against-most-severe-symptoms-12202200

These vaccines are now coming fast. It's not surreal at this stage now to hope for a somewhat 'normal' summer combined with the fact it looks to be somewhat less lethal in the summer (going on last year).

Pray God.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on January 29, 2021, 01:29:14 PM
When you let it spread widely in the community it's probably virtually impossible to keep it out of hospitals. And once people are in hospitals in a busy indoor environment it's going to spread. The best way to keep it out of the hospitals is to reduce spread in the community through various measures including lockdown type laws when necessary.

And people shouldn't be losing their lives too soon whether they're 60 or 30. A 65 year old could have 15 good years left to spend with their family and enjoy their retirement etc. Their life isn't any less valuable than anyone else's.

Of course but you are neglecting and deflecting away from the fact of the spread in hospitals. There are no excuses for that, it's a scandal and has cost lives but hey it's easier to put the blame on the people.

Its chicken and egg thing

I haven't read a post or anything from anyone outside of the government that hasn't said there needs to be an inquiry into the spread of the virus in hospitals and nursing homes.

This seems to be your new depression, 17/18 flu drum at the minute

You catch covid and bring covid into the hospital, then others catch it... pretty straight forward I'd have thought.. Reduce covid in the community will reduce covid in the hospitals and nursing homes..

Everyone is in agreement that the 18% extra transmissions of covid in these areas is a scandal that really needs looking into.

How do you think it should be reduced in the hospitals? just let them die in the street?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on January 29, 2021, 01:29:14 PM
When you let it spread widely in the community it's probably virtually impossible to keep it out of hospitals. And once people are in hospitals in a busy indoor environment it's going to spread. The best way to keep it out of the hospitals is to reduce spread in the community through various measures including lockdown type laws when necessary.

And people shouldn't be losing their lives too soon whether they're 60 or 30. A 65 year old could have 15 good years left to spend with their family and enjoy their retirement etc. Their life isn't any less valuable than anyone else's.

Of course but you are neglecting and deflecting away from the fact of the spread in hospitals. There are no excuses for that, it's a scandal and has cost lives but hey it's easier to put the blame on the people.

Its chicken and egg thing

I haven't read a post or anything from anyone outside of the government that hasn't said there needs to be an inquiry into the spread of the virus in hospitals and nursing homes.

This seems to be your new depression, 17/18 flu drum at the minute

You catch covid and bring covid into the hospital, then others catch it... pretty straight forward I'd have thought.. Reduce covid in the community will reduce covid in the hospitals and nursing homes..

Everyone is in agreement that the 18% extra transmissions of covid in these areas is a scandal that really needs looking into.

How do you think it should be reduced in the hospitals? just let them die in the street?

You're trying to excuse the level of transmission in hospitals. It's utterly scandalous, there is no excusing it.

Why have we not consigned specialist hospitals to deal solely with Covid? Why is pretty much every hosptial we have is seeing Covid patients and Covid wards in them? Surely this only serves to expose and increase the risk of patients contracting Covid. These are issues which should have been addressed long ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 02:41:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on January 29, 2021, 01:29:14 PM
When you let it spread widely in the community it's probably virtually impossible to keep it out of hospitals. And once people are in hospitals in a busy indoor environment it's going to spread. The best way to keep it out of the hospitals is to reduce spread in the community through various measures including lockdown type laws when necessary.

And people shouldn't be losing their lives too soon whether they're 60 or 30. A 65 year old could have 15 good years left to spend with their family and enjoy their retirement etc. Their life isn't any less valuable than anyone else's.

Of course but you are neglecting and deflecting away from the fact of the spread in hospitals. There are no excuses for that, it's a scandal and has cost lives but hey it's easier to put the blame on the people.

Its chicken and egg thing

I haven't read a post or anything from anyone outside of the government that hasn't said there needs to be an inquiry into the spread of the virus in hospitals and nursing homes.

This seems to be your new depression, 17/18 flu drum at the minute

You catch covid and bring covid into the hospital, then others catch it... pretty straight forward I'd have thought.. Reduce covid in the community will reduce covid in the hospitals and nursing homes..

Everyone is in agreement that the 18% extra transmissions of covid in these areas is a scandal that really needs looking into.

How do you think it should be reduced in the hospitals? just let them die in the street?

You're trying to excuse the level of transmission in hospitals. It's utterly scandalous, there is no excusing it.

Why have we not consigned specialist hospitals to deal solely with Covid? Why is pretty much every hosptial we have is seeing Covid patients and Covid wards in them? Surely this only serves to expose and increase the risk of patients contracting Covid. These are issues which should have been addressed long ago.

I'm not excusing it, the bit in bold in my post.

The nightinggale hospitals should have been used, strictly for covid or ordinary patients, no both.

You said there is no excuse for it... I've asked you how it would be reduced? you haven't answered.

You still have the problem of, porters. nurses, cleaners, doctors and admin staff that would be in contact in all of these places, who through no fault of their own, bring with them the virus into a 'clean' hospital.

I'm not arguing with you but again you haven't put up a solution that would stop the virus (which I think is impossible) spreading in a hospital
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 29, 2021, 02:44:25 PM
A third of the Norths 103K covid cases have came within the last 30 days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 29, 2021, 03:04:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 02:41:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on January 29, 2021, 01:29:14 PM
When you let it spread widely in the community it's probably virtually impossible to keep it out of hospitals. And once people are in hospitals in a busy indoor environment it's going to spread. The best way to keep it out of the hospitals is to reduce spread in the community through various measures including lockdown type laws when necessary.

And people shouldn't be losing their lives too soon whether they're 60 or 30. A 65 year old could have 15 good years left to spend with their family and enjoy their retirement etc. Their life isn't any less valuable than anyone else's.

Of course but you are neglecting and deflecting away from the fact of the spread in hospitals. There are no excuses for that, it's a scandal and has cost lives but hey it's easier to put the blame on the people.

Its chicken and egg thing

I haven't read a post or anything from anyone outside of the government that hasn't said there needs to be an inquiry into the spread of the virus in hospitals and nursing homes.

This seems to be your new depression, 17/18 flu drum at the minute

You catch covid and bring covid into the hospital, then others catch it... pretty straight forward I'd have thought.. Reduce covid in the community will reduce covid in the hospitals and nursing homes..

Everyone is in agreement that the 18% extra transmissions of covid in these areas is a scandal that really needs looking into.

How do you think it should be reduced in the hospitals? just let them die in the street?

You're trying to excuse the level of transmission in hospitals. It's utterly scandalous, there is no excusing it.

Why have we not consigned specialist hospitals to deal solely with Covid? Why is pretty much every hosptial we have is seeing Covid patients and Covid wards in them? Surely this only serves to expose and increase the risk of patients contracting Covid. These are issues which should have been addressed long ago.

I'm not excusing it, the bit in bold in my post.

The nightinggale hospitals should have been used, strictly for covid or ordinary patients, no both.

You said there is no excuse for it... I've asked you how it would be reduced? you haven't answered.

You still have the problem of, porters. nurses, cleaners, doctors and admin staff that would be in contact in all of these places, who through no fault of their own, bring with them the virus into a 'clean' hospital.

I'm not arguing with you but again you haven't put up a solution that would stop the virus (which I think is impossible) spreading in a hospital

There is no staff.
DUP under Edwin Poots cut Nursing places
MON refused to increase Nursing pay in line with rest of GB.
If you want to understand the response from the Health Service then you need to look at who is in charge making decisions. And you can't blame "The Tories". Stormont was given the money but couldn't run things.

You cannot criticise the the health service and exonerate SF and the DUP. We have gotten exactly what we deserve for electing these fools.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 03:10:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 02:41:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on January 29, 2021, 01:29:14 PM
When you let it spread widely in the community it's probably virtually impossible to keep it out of hospitals. And once people are in hospitals in a busy indoor environment it's going to spread. The best way to keep it out of the hospitals is to reduce spread in the community through various measures including lockdown type laws when necessary.

And people shouldn't be losing their lives too soon whether they're 60 or 30. A 65 year old could have 15 good years left to spend with their family and enjoy their retirement etc. Their life isn't any less valuable than anyone else's.

Of course but you are neglecting and deflecting away from the fact of the spread in hospitals. There are no excuses for that, it's a scandal and has cost lives but hey it's easier to put the blame on the people.

Its chicken and egg thing

I haven't read a post or anything from anyone outside of the government that hasn't said there needs to be an inquiry into the spread of the virus in hospitals and nursing homes.

This seems to be your new depression, 17/18 flu drum at the minute

You catch covid and bring covid into the hospital, then others catch it... pretty straight forward I'd have thought.. Reduce covid in the community will reduce covid in the hospitals and nursing homes..

Everyone is in agreement that the 18% extra transmissions of covid in these areas is a scandal that really needs looking into.

How do you think it should be reduced in the hospitals? just let them die in the street?

You're trying to excuse the level of transmission in hospitals. It's utterly scandalous, there is no excusing it.

Why have we not consigned specialist hospitals to deal solely with Covid? Why is pretty much every hosptial we have is seeing Covid patients and Covid wards in them? Surely this only serves to expose and increase the risk of patients contracting Covid. These are issues which should have been addressed long ago.

I'm not excusing it, the bit in bold in my post.

The nightinggale hospitals should have been used, strictly for covid or ordinary patients, no both.

You said there is no excuse for it... I've asked you how it would be reduced? you haven't answered.

You still have the problem of, porters. nurses, cleaners, doctors and admin staff that would be in contact in all of these places, who through no fault of their own, bring with them the virus into a 'clean' hospital.

I'm not arguing with you but again you haven't put up a solution that would stop the virus (which I think is impossible) spreading in a hospital

I have answered on ways we could have tried to reduce it, instead nothing was done and transmission rates in hospital with severely exposed patients reached utterly unacceptable levels and no doubt contributed to the death tolls. My suggestion is repeated below:

Why have we not consigned specialist hospitals to deal solely with Covid? Why is pretty much every hosptial we have is seeing Covid patients and Covid wards in them? Surely this only serves to expose and increase the risk of patients contracting Covid. These are issues which should have been addressed long ago.

The govt and health dept have sat on their hands for the past 12 months and made no sort of contingency or forward planning on this. They are the ones charged with this and they did nothing.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 03:17:51 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 29, 2021, 03:04:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 02:41:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on January 29, 2021, 01:29:14 PM
When you let it spread widely in the community it's probably virtually impossible to keep it out of hospitals. And once people are in hospitals in a busy indoor environment it's going to spread. The best way to keep it out of the hospitals is to reduce spread in the community through various measures including lockdown type laws when necessary.

And people shouldn't be losing their lives too soon whether they're 60 or 30. A 65 year old could have 15 good years left to spend with their family and enjoy their retirement etc. Their life isn't any less valuable than anyone else's.

Of course but you are neglecting and deflecting away from the fact of the spread in hospitals. There are no excuses for that, it's a scandal and has cost lives but hey it's easier to put the blame on the people.

Its chicken and egg thing

I haven't read a post or anything from anyone outside of the government that hasn't said there needs to be an inquiry into the spread of the virus in hospitals and nursing homes.

This seems to be your new depression, 17/18 flu drum at the minute

You catch covid and bring covid into the hospital, then others catch it... pretty straight forward I'd have thought.. Reduce covid in the community will reduce covid in the hospitals and nursing homes..

Everyone is in agreement that the 18% extra transmissions of covid in these areas is a scandal that really needs looking into.

How do you think it should be reduced in the hospitals? just let them die in the street?

You're trying to excuse the level of transmission in hospitals. It's utterly scandalous, there is no excusing it.

Why have we not consigned specialist hospitals to deal solely with Covid? Why is pretty much every hosptial we have is seeing Covid patients and Covid wards in them? Surely this only serves to expose and increase the risk of patients contracting Covid. These are issues which should have been addressed long ago.

I'm not excusing it, the bit in bold in my post.

The nightinggale hospitals should have been used, strictly for covid or ordinary patients, no both.

You said there is no excuse for it... I've asked you how it would be reduced? you haven't answered.

You still have the problem of, porters. nurses, cleaners, doctors and admin staff that would be in contact in all of these places, who through no fault of their own, bring with them the virus into a 'clean' hospital.

I'm not arguing with you but again you haven't put up a solution that would stop the virus (which I think is impossible) spreading in a hospital

There is no staff.
DUP under Edwin Poots cut Nursing places
MON refused to increase Nursing pay in line with rest of GB.
If you want to understand the response from the Health Service then you need to look at who is in charge making decisions. And you can't blame "The Tories". Stormont was given the money but couldn't run things.

You cannot criticise the the health service and exonerate SF and the DUP. We have gotten exactly what we deserve for electing these fools.


There's no staff because the government haven't any measures in place to deal with pandemics, the fact that with a pandemic, staff levels would naturally fall because staff would be front line and come down with the virus they are fighting. Its penny pinching but what do you do with staffing levels when there is no pandemic?

There should be, and I said this before, a part-time trained staff, who during the week have their own jobs but are trained in hospital services, can cover hospitals at the weekend or some nights, a bit like the TA for the army.

Its a clusterfuck and typically the governments, and it doesn't and would not have made a pile of difference who was involved will always take the cheap action.

The blame game is pointless at this point, no one is coming out of this with a big cape on looking good. We are in it and when we are out of it go to the ballot box and remember the clowns that let you down. Now in this strange set up, the people that complained only need reminding that a UI is far worse than a pandemic and will vote accordingly, and Arlene has no problem stoking fires, as do SF in calling for a UI at the drop of a hat
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 03:20:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 29, 2021, 03:04:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 02:41:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on January 29, 2021, 01:29:14 PM
When you let it spread widely in the community it's probably virtually impossible to keep it out of hospitals. And once people are in hospitals in a busy indoor environment it's going to spread. The best way to keep it out of the hospitals is to reduce spread in the community through various measures including lockdown type laws when necessary.

And people shouldn't be losing their lives too soon whether they're 60 or 30. A 65 year old could have 15 good years left to spend with their family and enjoy their retirement etc. Their life isn't any less valuable than anyone else's.

Of course but you are neglecting and deflecting away from the fact of the spread in hospitals. There are no excuses for that, it's a scandal and has cost lives but hey it's easier to put the blame on the people.

Its chicken and egg thing

I haven't read a post or anything from anyone outside of the government that hasn't said there needs to be an inquiry into the spread of the virus in hospitals and nursing homes.

This seems to be your new depression, 17/18 flu drum at the minute

You catch covid and bring covid into the hospital, then others catch it... pretty straight forward I'd have thought.. Reduce covid in the community will reduce covid in the hospitals and nursing homes..

Everyone is in agreement that the 18% extra transmissions of covid in these areas is a scandal that really needs looking into.

How do you think it should be reduced in the hospitals? just let them die in the street?

You're trying to excuse the level of transmission in hospitals. It's utterly scandalous, there is no excusing it.

Why have we not consigned specialist hospitals to deal solely with Covid? Why is pretty much every hosptial we have is seeing Covid patients and Covid wards in them? Surely this only serves to expose and increase the risk of patients contracting Covid. These are issues which should have been addressed long ago.

I'm not excusing it, the bit in bold in my post.

The nightinggale hospitals should have been used, strictly for covid or ordinary patients, no both.

You said there is no excuse for it... I've asked you how it would be reduced? you haven't answered.

You still have the problem of, porters. nurses, cleaners, doctors and admin staff that would be in contact in all of these places, who through no fault of their own, bring with them the virus into a 'clean' hospital.

I'm not arguing with you but again you haven't put up a solution that would stop the virus (which I think is impossible) spreading in a hospital

There is no staff.
DUP under Edwin Poots cut Nursing places
MON refused to increase Nursing pay in line with rest of GB.
If you want to understand the response from the Health Service then you need to look at who is in charge making decisions. And you can't blame "The Tories". Stormont was given the money but couldn't run things.

You cannot criticise the the health service and exonerate SF and the DUP. We have gotten exactly what we deserve for electing these fools.

Do you realise the SDLP and UUP are part of the power sharing executive too? The health service actually being under a UUP minister?

Anyway, the political system in Stormont is not designed to work but seems a bit bizarre you don't know the structure of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 03:23:14 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 03:10:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 02:41:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on January 29, 2021, 01:29:14 PM
When you let it spread widely in the community it's probably virtually impossible to keep it out of hospitals. And once people are in hospitals in a busy indoor environment it's going to spread. The best way to keep it out of the hospitals is to reduce spread in the community through various measures including lockdown type laws when necessary.

And people shouldn't be losing their lives too soon whether they're 60 or 30. A 65 year old could have 15 good years left to spend with their family and enjoy their retirement etc. Their life isn't any less valuable than anyone else's.

Of course but you are neglecting and deflecting away from the fact of the spread in hospitals. There are no excuses for that, it's a scandal and has cost lives but hey it's easier to put the blame on the people.

Its chicken and egg thing

I haven't read a post or anything from anyone outside of the government that hasn't said there needs to be an inquiry into the spread of the virus in hospitals and nursing homes.

This seems to be your new depression, 17/18 flu drum at the minute

You catch covid and bring covid into the hospital, then others catch it... pretty straight forward I'd have thought.. Reduce covid in the community will reduce covid in the hospitals and nursing homes..

Everyone is in agreement that the 18% extra transmissions of covid in these areas is a scandal that really needs looking into.

How do you think it should be reduced in the hospitals? just let them die in the street?

You're trying to excuse the level of transmission in hospitals. It's utterly scandalous, there is no excusing it.

Why have we not consigned specialist hospitals to deal solely with Covid? Why is pretty much every hosptial we have is seeing Covid patients and Covid wards in them? Surely this only serves to expose and increase the risk of patients contracting Covid. These are issues which should have been addressed long ago.

I'm not excusing it, the bit in bold in my post.

The nightinggale hospitals should have been used, strictly for covid or ordinary patients, no both.

You said there is no excuse for it... I've asked you how it would be reduced? you haven't answered.

You still have the problem of, porters. nurses, cleaners, doctors and admin staff that would be in contact in all of these places, who through no fault of their own, bring with them the virus into a 'clean' hospital.

I'm not arguing with you but again you haven't put up a solution that would stop the virus (which I think is impossible) spreading in a hospital

I have answered on ways we could have tried to reduce it, instead nothing was done and transmission rates in hospital with severely exposed patients reached utterly unacceptable levels and no doubt contributed to the death tolls. My suggestion is repeated below:

Why have we not consigned specialist hospitals to deal solely with Covid? Why is pretty much every hosptial we have is seeing Covid patients and Covid wards in them? Surely this only serves to expose and increase the risk of patients contracting Covid. These are issues which should have been addressed long ago.

The govt and health dept have sat on their hands for the past 12 months and made no sort of contingency or forward planning on this. They are the ones charged with this and they did nothing.

You are not in government, no one will listen to you and if they read this discussion board they defo wouldn't listen to you.

You can't train up staff in a year, they haven't the numbers, we did have specialist hospitals, but they didn't use them, as they didn't have the staff!

There was/is a pandemic protocol, apparently the brits had a very good one, they just didn't apply it! 

You can't wave a magic wand when the horse has bolted to fix things, they are plugging gaps and sticking tape over things, remember this when you go to vote next day out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 03:27:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 03:23:14 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 03:10:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 02:41:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on January 29, 2021, 01:29:14 PM
When you let it spread widely in the community it's probably virtually impossible to keep it out of hospitals. And once people are in hospitals in a busy indoor environment it's going to spread. The best way to keep it out of the hospitals is to reduce spread in the community through various measures including lockdown type laws when necessary.

And people shouldn't be losing their lives too soon whether they're 60 or 30. A 65 year old could have 15 good years left to spend with their family and enjoy their retirement etc. Their life isn't any less valuable than anyone else's.

Of course but you are neglecting and deflecting away from the fact of the spread in hospitals. There are no excuses for that, it's a scandal and has cost lives but hey it's easier to put the blame on the people.

Its chicken and egg thing

I haven't read a post or anything from anyone outside of the government that hasn't said there needs to be an inquiry into the spread of the virus in hospitals and nursing homes.

This seems to be your new depression, 17/18 flu drum at the minute

You catch covid and bring covid into the hospital, then others catch it... pretty straight forward I'd have thought.. Reduce covid in the community will reduce covid in the hospitals and nursing homes..

Everyone is in agreement that the 18% extra transmissions of covid in these areas is a scandal that really needs looking into.

How do you think it should be reduced in the hospitals? just let them die in the street?

You're trying to excuse the level of transmission in hospitals. It's utterly scandalous, there is no excusing it.

Why have we not consigned specialist hospitals to deal solely with Covid? Why is pretty much every hosptial we have is seeing Covid patients and Covid wards in them? Surely this only serves to expose and increase the risk of patients contracting Covid. These are issues which should have been addressed long ago.

I'm not excusing it, the bit in bold in my post.

The nightinggale hospitals should have been used, strictly for covid or ordinary patients, no both.

You said there is no excuse for it... I've asked you how it would be reduced? you haven't answered.

You still have the problem of, porters. nurses, cleaners, doctors and admin staff that would be in contact in all of these places, who through no fault of their own, bring with them the virus into a 'clean' hospital.

I'm not arguing with you but again you haven't put up a solution that would stop the virus (which I think is impossible) spreading in a hospital

I have answered on ways we could have tried to reduce it, instead nothing was done and transmission rates in hospital with severely exposed patients reached utterly unacceptable levels and no doubt contributed to the death tolls. My suggestion is repeated below:

Why have we not consigned specialist hospitals to deal solely with Covid? Why is pretty much every hosptial we have is seeing Covid patients and Covid wards in them? Surely this only serves to expose and increase the risk of patients contracting Covid. These are issues which should have been addressed long ago.

The govt and health dept have sat on their hands for the past 12 months and made no sort of contingency or forward planning on this. They are the ones charged with this and they did nothing.

You are not in government, no one will listen to you and if they read this discussion board they defo wouldn't listen to you.

You can't train up staff in a year, they haven't the numbers, we did have specialist hospitals, but they didn't use them, as they didn't have the staff!

There was/is a pandemic protocol, apparently the brits had a very good one, they just didn't apply it! 

You can't wave a magic wand when the horse has bolted to fix things, they are plugging gaps and sticking tape over things, remember this when you go to vote next day out

You could recruit staff though.

If you look at down south, they had a huge amount of Irish doctors, nurses and other health workers returning home from abroad to offer their services at the start of the pandemic. Very few of them were actually employed.


The issue is what happened and reality is nothing was done about it when something could have been done about it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on January 29, 2021, 11:21:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 03:23:14 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 03:10:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 02:41:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2021, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 29, 2021, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on January 29, 2021, 01:29:14 PM
When you let it spread widely in the community it's probably virtually impossible to keep it out of hospitals. And once people are in hospitals in a busy indoor environment it's going to spread. The best way to keep it out of the hospitals is to reduce spread in the community through various measures including lockdown type laws when necessary.

And people shouldn't be losing their lives too soon whether they're 60 or 30. A 65 year old could have 15 good years left to spend with their family and enjoy their retirement etc. Their life isn't any less valuable than anyone else's.

Of course but you are neglecting and deflecting away from the fact of the spread in hospitals. There are no excuses for that, it's a scandal and has cost lives but hey it's easier to put the blame on the people.

Its chicken and egg thing

I haven't read a post or anything from anyone outside of the government that hasn't said there needs to be an inquiry into the spread of the virus in hospitals and nursing homes.

This seems to be your new depression, 17/18 flu drum at the minute

You catch covid and bring covid into the hospital, then others catch it... pretty straight forward I'd have thought.. Reduce covid in the community will reduce covid in the hospitals and nursing homes..

Everyone is in agreement that the 18% extra transmissions of covid in these areas is a scandal that really needs looking into.

How do you think it should be reduced in the hospitals? just let them die in the street?

You're trying to excuse the level of transmission in hospitals. It's utterly scandalous, there is no excusing it.

Why have we not consigned specialist hospitals to deal solely with Covid? Why is pretty much every hosptial we have is seeing Covid patients and Covid wards in them? Surely this only serves to expose and increase the risk of patients contracting Covid. These are issues which should have been addressed long ago.

I'm not excusing it, the bit in bold in my post.

The nightinggale hospitals should have been used, strictly for covid or ordinary patients, no both.

You said there is no excuse for it... I've asked you how it would be reduced? you haven't answered.

You still have the problem of, porters. nurses, cleaners, doctors and admin staff that would be in contact in all of these places, who through no fault of their own, bring with them the virus into a 'clean' hospital.

I'm not arguing with you but again you haven't put up a solution that would stop the virus (which I think is impossible) spreading in a hospital

I have answered on ways we could have tried to reduce it, instead nothing was done and transmission rates in hospital with severely exposed patients reached utterly unacceptable levels and no doubt contributed to the death tolls. My suggestion is repeated below:

Why have we not consigned specialist hospitals to deal solely with Covid? Why is pretty much every hosptial we have is seeing Covid patients and Covid wards in them? Surely this only serves to expose and increase the risk of patients contracting Covid. These are issues which should have been addressed long ago.

The govt and health dept have sat on their hands for the past 12 months and made no sort of contingency or forward planning on this. They are the ones charged with this and they did nothing.

You are not in government, no one will listen to you and if they read this discussion board they defo wouldn't listen to you.

You can't train up staff in a year, they haven't the numbers, we did have specialist hospitals, but they didn't use them, as they didn't have the staff!

There was/is a pandemic protocol, apparently the brits had a very good one, they just didn't apply it! 

You can't wave a magic wand when the horse has bolted to fix things, they are plugging gaps and sticking tape over things, remember this when you go to vote next day out
Naomh Gall abú!  Ní dhéanfar dearmad ar a rud a phostáilt tú.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 08:42:11 AM
Question

Why has the big spike not happened after the snow fall last week?
Thousands upon thousands of young and old out and about in close quarters?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 09:37:33 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 08:42:11 AM
Question

Why has the big spike not happened after the snow fall last week?
Thousands upon thousands of young and old out and about in close quarters?

Source?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
Source what?
You milltown are a denier
Anything that doesn't suit your opinion
You and I both know the streets and villages were packed last Sunday with snow enthusiasts
You can not deny that
Why have we not seen a spike
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 31, 2021, 10:10:42 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 08:42:11 AM
Question

Why has the big spike not happened after the snow fall last week?
Thousands upon thousands of young and old out and about in close quarters?

Only 1% of transmissions have been estimated to happen outside in the fresh air.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 31, 2021, 10:27:58 AM
It's barely been a week too. Christmas had a predicted spike. Who predicted a spike from the snow?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 31, 2021, 11:05:34 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 31, 2021, 10:27:58 AM
It's barely been a week too. Christmas had a predicted spike. Who predicted a spike from the snow?

At Christmas lots of people were congregated indoors and with it being cold there was little ventilation. Perfect conditions for the virus to spread. Plus it took 2 or 3 weeks to really see the effects of that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
Source what?
You milltown are a denier
Anything that doesn't suit your opinion
You and I both know the streets and villages were packed last Sunday with snow enthusiasts
You can not deny that
Why have we not seen a spike
At least the Moderator is keeping a good eye on his posts and deleting when required. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 31, 2021, 11:45:50 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 31, 2021, 11:05:34 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 31, 2021, 10:27:58 AM
It's barely been a week too. Christmas had a predicted spike. Who predicted a spike from the snow?

At Christmas lots of people were congregated indoors and with it being cold there was little ventilation. Perfect conditions for the virus to spread. Plus it took 2 or 3 weeks to really see the effects of that.

Exactly. I don't think any spike is envisaged from the snow so not sure why anyone is expecting one especially so soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:00:20 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
Source what?
You milltown are a denier
Anything that doesn't suit your opinion
You and I both know the streets and villages were packed last Sunday with snow enthusiasts
You can not deny that
Why have we not seen a spike
At least the Moderator is keeping a good eye on his posts and deleting when required.

What are you on about you muppet
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:12:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:00:20 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
Source what?
You milltown are a denier
Anything that doesn't suit your opinion
You and I both know the streets and villages were packed last Sunday with snow enthusiasts
You can not deny that
Why have we not seen a spike
At least the Moderator is keeping a good eye on his posts and deleting when required.

What are you on about you muppet
Sorry - forgot you are Milltown Row2.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:15:02 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:12:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:00:20 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
Source what?
You milltown are a denier
Anything that doesn't suit your opinion
You and I both know the streets and villages were packed last Sunday with snow enthusiasts
You can not deny that
Why have we not seen a spike
At least the Moderator is keeping a good eye on his posts and deleting when required.

What are you on about you muppet
Sorry - forgot you are Milltown Row2.

So you're not going to expand on your post?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:15:02 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:12:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:00:20 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
Source what?
You milltown are a denier
Anything that doesn't suit your opinion
You and I both know the streets and villages were packed last Sunday with snow enthusiasts
You can not deny that
Why have we not seen a spike
At least the Moderator is keeping a good eye on his posts and deleting when required.

What are you on about you muppet
Sorry - forgot you are Milltown Row2.

So you're not going to expand on your post?
Would love to but the post by "Milltown Row" has been deleted by the Moderator.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:21:32 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:15:02 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:12:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:00:20 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
Source what?
You milltown are a denier
Anything that doesn't suit your opinion
You and I both know the streets and villages were packed last Sunday with snow enthusiasts
You can not deny that
Why have we not seen a spike
At least the Moderator is keeping a good eye on his posts and deleting when required.

What are you on about you muppet
Sorry - forgot you are Milltown Row2.

So you're not going to expand on your post?
Would love to but the post by "Milltown Row" has been deleted by the Moderator.

Right then.. what post was it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:23:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:21:32 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:15:02 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:12:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:00:20 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
Source what?
You milltown are a denier
Anything that doesn't suit your opinion
You and I both know the streets and villages were packed last Sunday with snow enthusiasts
You can not deny that
Why have we not seen a spike
At least the Moderator is keeping a good eye on his posts and deleting when required.

What are you on about you muppet
Sorry - forgot you are Milltown Row2.

So you're not going to expand on your post?
Would love to but the post by "Milltown Row" has been deleted by the Moderator.

Right then.. what post was it
The one that compared teachers to a shankill butcher - has since been deleted.  Obviously a different Milltown Row.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:23:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:21:32 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:15:02 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:12:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:00:20 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
Source what?
You milltown are a denier
Anything that doesn't suit your opinion
You and I both know the streets and villages were packed last Sunday with snow enthusiasts
You can not deny that
Why have we not seen a spike
At least the Moderator is keeping a good eye on his posts and deleting when required.

What are you on about you muppet
Sorry - forgot you are Milltown Row2.

So you're not going to expand on your post?
Would love to but the post by "Milltown Row" has been deleted by the Moderator.

Right then.. what post was it
The one that compared teachers to a shankill butcher - has since been deleted.  Obviously a different Milltown Row.
I'm  an ex teacher and my wife is a current teacher, you've taken my post completely wrong. Not surprising though
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 01:33:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:23:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:21:32 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:15:02 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:12:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:00:20 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
Source what?
You milltown are a denier
Anything that doesn't suit your opinion
You and I both know the streets and villages were packed last Sunday with snow enthusiasts
You can not deny that
Why have we not seen a spike
At least the Moderator is keeping a good eye on his posts and deleting when required.

What are you on about you muppet
Sorry - forgot you are Milltown Row2.

So you're not going to expand on your post?
Would love to but the post by "Milltown Row" has been deleted by the Moderator.

Right then.. what post was it
The one that compared teachers to a shankill butcher - has since been deleted.  Obviously a different Milltown Row.
I'm  an ex teacher and my wife is a current teacher, you've taken my post completely wrong. Not surprising though
What post?  YOUR post?  So it was you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 01:45:03 PM
If only 1% of transmission of the virus happens outside why have we stopped
Outdoor sports
Outdoor retail
Golf

Starting to get awkward now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 31, 2021, 01:52:06 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0131/1194151-covid-19-ireland/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 02:02:36 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 01:33:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:23:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:21:32 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:15:02 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:12:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:00:20 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
Source what?
You milltown are a denier
Anything that doesn't suit your opinion
You and I both know the streets and villages were packed last Sunday with snow enthusiasts
You can not deny that
Why have we not seen a spike
At least the Moderator is keeping a good eye on his posts and deleting when required.

What are you on about you muppet
Sorry - forgot you are Milltown Row2.

So you're not going to expand on your post?
Would love to but the post by "Milltown Row" has been deleted by the Moderator.

Right then.. what post was it
The one that compared teachers to a shankill butcher - has since been deleted.  Obviously a different Milltown Row.
I'm  an ex teacher and my wife is a current teacher, you've taken my post completely wrong. Not surprising though
What post?  YOUR post?  So it was you?

You said a moderator deleted my post! If highlighted for you in case you forgot
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 02:16:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 02:02:36 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 01:33:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:23:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:21:32 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:15:02 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:12:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:00:20 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
Source what?
You milltown are a denier
Anything that doesn't suit your opinion
You and I both know the streets and villages were packed last Sunday with snow enthusiasts
You can not deny that
Why have we not seen a spike
At least the Moderator is keeping a good eye on his posts and deleting when required.

What are you on about you muppet
Sorry - forgot you are Milltown Row2.

So you're not going to expand on your post?
Would love to but the post by "Milltown Row" has been deleted by the Moderator.

Right then.. what post was it
The one that compared teachers to a shankill butcher - has since been deleted.  Obviously a different Milltown Row.
I'm  an ex teacher and my wife is a current teacher, you've taken my post completely wrong. Not surprising though
What post?  YOUR post?  So it was you?

You said a moderator deleted my post! If highlighted for you in case you forgot
Forget it?   No chance.  The post compared teachers to a Shankill Butcher and an LVF leader.  It was posted by a "Milltown Row" and deleted by the Moderator.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 31, 2021, 02:47:08 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 01:45:03 PM
If only 1% of transmission of the virus happens outside why have we stopped
Outdoor sports
Outdoor retail
Golf

Starting to get awkward now

People who play sports have to train together as well. That means using the same dressing room/changing rooms etc.

The government want people to stay at home so they closed golf courses. They don't want people from different households traveling and meeting up.

I don't think you understand how lockdown works
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 31, 2021, 03:03:40 PM
Smurfy a) we don't make the decisions and b) I think the explanation around it is the logistics surrounding everything else and not the sports themselves.

Disclaimer...that is not me saying I agree but the rationale as I understand it ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on January 31, 2021, 03:05:41 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 31, 2021, 02:47:08 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 01:45:03 PM
If only 1% of transmission of the virus happens outside why have we stopped
Outdoor sports
Outdoor retail
Golf

Starting to get awkward now

People who play sports have to train together as well. That means using the same dressing room/changing rooms etc.

The government want people to stay at home so they closed golf courses. They don't want people from different households traveling and meeting up.

I don't think you understand how lockdown works

Team couldn't use changing rooms when the GAA resumed last summer.

Lockdowns don't work. We know that now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 03:21:07 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 02:16:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 02:02:36 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 01:33:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:23:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:21:32 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:15:02 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:12:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:00:20 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
Source what?
You milltown are a denier
Anything that doesn't suit your opinion
You and I both know the streets and villages were packed last Sunday with snow enthusiasts
You can not deny that
Why have we not seen a spike
At least the Moderator is keeping a good eye on his posts and deleting when required.

What are you on about you muppet
Sorry - forgot you are Milltown Row2.

So you're not going to expand on your post?
Would love to but the post by "Milltown Row" has been deleted by the Moderator.

Right then.. what post was it
The one that compared teachers to a shankill butcher - has since been deleted.  Obviously a different Milltown Row.
I'm  an ex teacher and my wife is a current teacher, you've taken my post completely wrong. Not surprising though
What post?  YOUR post?  So it was you?

You said a moderator deleted my post! If highlighted for you in case you forgot
Forget it?   No chance.  The post compared teachers to a Shankill Butcher and an LVF leader.  It was posted by a "Milltown Row" and deleted by the Moderator.

I'll explain, the teachers were being blamed for everything. I compared them to Lenny Murphy and someone else can't remember..

I was being sarcastic, obviously you struggle with that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 31, 2021, 03:21:38 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 31, 2021, 02:47:08 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 01:45:03 PM
If only 1% of transmission of the virus happens outside why have we stopped
Outdoor sports
Outdoor retail
Golf

Starting to get awkward now

People who play sports have to train together as well. That means using the same dressing room/changing rooms etc.

The government want people to stay at home so they closed golf courses. They don't want people from different households traveling and meeting up.

I don't think you understand .

Fixed that for you. ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 31, 2021, 03:23:20 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 01:45:03 PM
If only 1% of transmission of the virus happens outside why have we stopped
Outdoor sports
Outdoor retail
Golf

Starting to get awkward now

It's mainly to stop unnecessary travel which increases the chances of road accidents etc whic puts more pressure on the already overrun NHS. When the numbers come down sports like fishing, golf, outdoor bowls will open up again. Ventilation in buildings is massive in preventing spread of the virus. We also know at this stage lockdowns are a necessary evil as they are the only proven way to drive down the case numbers. They have worked well in every country which has enforced them in a reasonable way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 03:33:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 03:21:07 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 02:16:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 02:02:36 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 01:33:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:23:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:21:32 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:15:02 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:12:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:00:20 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
Source what?
You milltown are a denier
Anything that doesn't suit your opinion
You and I both know the streets and villages were packed last Sunday with snow enthusiasts
You can not deny that
Why have we not seen a spike
At least the Moderator is keeping a good eye on his posts and deleting when required.

What are you on about you muppet
Sorry - forgot you are Milltown Row2.

So you're not going to expand on your post?
Would love to but the post by "Milltown Row" has been deleted by the Moderator.

Right then.. what post was it
The one that compared teachers to a shankill butcher - has since been deleted.  Obviously a different Milltown Row.
I'm  an ex teacher and my wife is a current teacher, you've taken my post completely wrong. Not surprising though
What post?  YOUR post?  So it was you?

You said a moderator deleted my post! If highlighted for you in case you forgot
Forget it?   No chance.  The post compared teachers to a Shankill Butcher and an LVF leader.  It was posted by a "Milltown Row" and deleted by the Moderator.

I'll explain, the teachers were being blamed for everything. I compared them to Lenny Murphy and someone else can't remember..

I was being sarcastic, obviously you struggle with that.
Then so does the Moderator - that is who removed your post.  Disgusting comparison - those people who lost love ones to Lenny Murphy and Billy Wright (remember now?) would hardly appreciate your sarcasm either.  On reflection, would you make the same comparison again?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on January 31, 2021, 03:37:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 31, 2021, 03:21:38 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 31, 2021, 02:47:08 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 01:45:03 PM
If only 1% of transmission of the virus happens outside why have we stopped
Outdoor sports
Outdoor retail
Golf

Starting to get awkward now

People who play sports have to train together as well. That means using the same dressing room/changing rooms etc.

The government want people to stay at home so they closed golf courses. They don't want people from different households traveling and meeting up.

I don't think you understand .

Fixed that for you. ;D

Thanks for that 👍

Latest cases in the south show an average age of 45 years old and the latest deaths include an individual only 30 years old.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 04:07:35 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 03:33:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 03:21:07 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 02:16:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 02:02:36 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 01:33:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:23:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:21:32 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:15:02 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:12:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:00:20 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
Source what?
You milltown are a denier
Anything that doesn't suit your opinion
You and I both know the streets and villages were packed last Sunday with snow enthusiasts
You can not deny that
Why have we not seen a spike
At least the Moderator is keeping a good eye on his posts and deleting when required.

What are you on about you muppet
Sorry - forgot you are Milltown Row2.

So you're not going to expand on your post?
Would love to but the post by "Milltown Row" has been deleted by the Moderator.

Right then.. what post was it
The one that compared teachers to a shankill butcher - has since been deleted.  Obviously a different Milltown Row.
I'm  an ex teacher and my wife is a current teacher, you've taken my post completely wrong. Not surprising though
What post?  YOUR post?  So it was you?

You said a moderator deleted my post! If highlighted for you in case you forgot
Forget it?   No chance.  The post compared teachers to a Shankill Butcher and an LVF leader.  It was posted by a "Milltown Row" and deleted by the Moderator.

I'll explain, the teachers were being blamed for everything. I compared them to Lenny Murphy and someone else can't remember..

I was being sarcastic, obviously you struggle with that.
Then so does the Moderator - that is who removed your post.  Disgusting comparison - those people who lost love ones to Lenny Murphy and Billy Wright (remember now?) would hardly appreciate your sarcasm either.  On reflection, would you make the same comparison again?

So you'll pull ever comparison on here? Good luck.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 04:46:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 04:07:35 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 03:33:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 03:21:07 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 02:16:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 02:02:36 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 01:33:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:23:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:21:32 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:15:02 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:12:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:00:20 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
Source what?
You milltown are a denier
Anything that doesn't suit your opinion
You and I both know the streets and villages were packed last Sunday with snow enthusiasts
You can not deny that
Why have we not seen a spike
At least the Moderator is keeping a good eye on his posts and deleting when required.

What are you on about you muppet
Sorry - forgot you are Milltown Row2.

So you're not going to expand on your post?
Would love to but the post by "Milltown Row" has been deleted by the Moderator.

Right then.. what post was it
The one that compared teachers to a shankill butcher - has since been deleted.  Obviously a different Milltown Row.
I'm  an ex teacher and my wife is a current teacher, you've taken my post completely wrong. Not surprising though
What post?  YOUR post?  So it was you?

You said a moderator deleted my post! If highlighted for you in case you forgot
Forget it?   No chance.  The post compared teachers to a Shankill Butcher and an LVF leader.  It was posted by a "Milltown Row" and deleted by the Moderator.

I'll explain, the teachers were being blamed for everything. I compared them to Lenny Murphy and someone else can't remember..

I was being sarcastic, obviously you struggle with that.
Then so does the Moderator - that is who removed your post.  Disgusting comparison - those people who lost love ones to Lenny Murphy and Billy Wright (remember now?) would hardly appreciate your sarcasm either.  On reflection, would you make the same comparison again?

So you'll pull ever comparison on here? Good luck.
No, the moderator pulled YOU for a disgraceful comparison of teachers to two sectarian murderers.  How warped and sick that an attempt at sarcasm would take your mind to a Shankill Butcher.  Your didn't even have the balls to reconsider your misjudgement on this one.  Pathetic. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 04:54:19 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 04:46:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 04:07:35 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 03:33:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 03:21:07 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 02:16:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 02:02:36 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 01:33:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:23:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:21:32 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:15:02 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:12:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:00:20 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
Source what?
You milltown are a denier
Anything that doesn't suit your opinion
You and I both know the streets and villages were packed last Sunday with snow enthusiasts
You can not deny that
Why have we not seen a spike
At least the Moderator is keeping a good eye on his posts and deleting when required.

What are you on about you muppet
Sorry - forgot you are Milltown Row2.

So you're not going to expand on your post?
Would love to but the post by "Milltown Row" has been deleted by the Moderator.

Right then.. what post was it
The one that compared teachers to a shankill butcher - has since been deleted.  Obviously a different Milltown Row.
I'm  an ex teacher and my wife is a current teacher, you've taken my post completely wrong. Not surprising though
What post?  YOUR post?  So it was you?

You said a moderator deleted my post! If highlighted for you in case you forgot
Forget it?   No chance.  The post compared teachers to a Shankill Butcher and an LVF leader.  It was posted by a "Milltown Row" and deleted by the Moderator.

I'll explain, the teachers were being blamed for everything. I compared them to Lenny Murphy and someone else can't remember..

I was being sarcastic, obviously you struggle with that.
Then so does the Moderator - that is who removed your post.  Disgusting comparison - those people who lost love ones to Lenny Murphy and Billy Wright (remember now?) would hardly appreciate your sarcasm either.  On reflection, would you make the same comparison again?

So you'll pull ever comparison on here? Good luck.
No, the moderator pulled YOU for a disgraceful comparison of teachers to two sectarian murderers.  How warped and sick that an attempt at sarcasm would take your mind to a Shankill Butcher.  Your didn't even have the balls to reconsider your misjudgement on this one.  Pathetic.

I wasn't pulled. The post it seems was pulled.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 05:03:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 04:54:19 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 04:46:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 04:07:35 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 03:33:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 03:21:07 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 02:16:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 02:02:36 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 01:33:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:54:50 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:23:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:21:32 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:15:02 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 12:12:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2021, 12:00:20 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 31, 2021, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 10:03:14 AM
Source what?
You milltown are a denier
Anything that doesn't suit your opinion
You and I both know the streets and villages were packed last Sunday with snow enthusiasts
You can not deny that
Why have we not seen a spike
At least the Moderator is keeping a good eye on his posts and deleting when required.

What are you on about you muppet
Sorry - forgot you are Milltown Row2.

So you're not going to expand on your post?
Would love to but the post by "Milltown Row" has been deleted by the Moderator.

Right then.. what post was it
The one that compared teachers to a shankill butcher - has since been deleted.  Obviously a different Milltown Row.
I'm  an ex teacher and my wife is a current teacher, you've taken my post completely wrong. Not surprising though
What post?  YOUR post?  So it was you?

You said a moderator deleted my post! If highlighted for you in case you forgot
Forget it?   No chance.  The post compared teachers to a Shankill Butcher and an LVF leader.  It was posted by a "Milltown Row" and deleted by the Moderator.

I'll explain, the teachers were being blamed for everything. I compared them to Lenny Murphy and someone else can't remember..

I was being sarcastic, obviously you struggle with that.
Then so does the Moderator - that is who removed your post.  Disgusting comparison - those people who lost love ones to Lenny Murphy and Billy Wright (remember now?) would hardly appreciate your sarcasm either.  On reflection, would you make the same comparison again?

So you'll pull ever comparison on here? Good luck.
No, the moderator pulled YOU for a disgraceful comparison of teachers to two sectarian murderers.  How warped and sick that an attempt at sarcasm would take your mind to a Shankill Butcher.  Your didn't even have the balls to reconsider your misjudgement on this one.  Pathetic.

I wasn't pulled. The post it seems was pulled.
Fair enough - wasn't your post then.   ;D  :o  Whoever wrote it owns it. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 31, 2021, 05:48:10 PM
ROI weekly update. Good progress on the cases on those in hospital. Deaths remain high but at least less that a week ago.

Cases 9016 (5,861 less cases than last week)
Reported Deaths 340   (25 less than last week)

In hospital 1,516 (415 less than a week ago)
In ICU 211 (7 less than last week)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 01, 2021, 07:06:02 AM
Tommygun agree it's maybe to do with logistics

I ask a question and some men just be ignorant in there reply's as they do not agree with my opinions


Answer me this and I know Angelo has mentioned it

Why has there not been 1 single case of influenza this year?
Not 1?

And look here I'm not a covid denier. My elderly father had it and was sick for a few days. Nothing major but 2 bad days

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 07:35:56 AM
Vaccines had highest uptake, lockdown, tbh I don't find there are many years that you read that much about flu anyway, better hygiene. I doubt it's been eradicated tbh.

I know some people seem to have the idea that COVID just a bad flu but I have read many things from many experts that debunk it for me.(mainly round hypoxia in young people so not even fatalities)It seems to be a comparison that is trotted out when people aren't in favour of regulations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 01, 2021, 07:57:30 AM
One issue with the low number of flu cases in 2020 is that it will make the flu vaccine for 2021 harder to create as they don't have the same levels of data to test for mutations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 31, 2021, 03:37:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 31, 2021, 03:21:38 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 31, 2021, 02:47:08 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 01:45:03 PM
If only 1% of transmission of the virus happens outside why have we stopped
Outdoor sports
Outdoor retail
Golf

Starting to get awkward now

People who play sports have to train together as well. That means using the same dressing room/changing rooms etc.

The government want people to stay at home so they closed golf courses. They don't want people from different households traveling and meeting up.

I don't think you understand .

Fixed that for you. ;D

Thanks for that 👍

Latest cases in the south show an average age of 45 years old and the latest deaths include an individual only 30 years old.

Do you want to mention the fact that 1/3 of people in hospital with Covid picked up in hospital.

Or do you just want to pedal more scaremongering?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:41:29 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 01, 2021, 07:57:30 AM
One issue with the low number of flu cases in 2020 is that it will make the flu vaccine for 2021 harder to create as they don't have the same levels of data to test for mutations.

Flu vaccines are rolled out every year but we are led to believe that we have no case of flu this year.

Covid tests have positive test rates of between 5-20% generally, so what about the people who test negative after claiming to have had symptoms? Just hypochondriacs?

And if lockdowns have eliminated flu this season, then surely governments have blood on their hands at the amount of deaths we experience every winter? Why are we so willing to accept excess deaths every winter from flu?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 01, 2021, 09:50:48 AM
Matt Hancock says we'll all be having a free and happy summer (in England).

Was very optimistic recently, now I fear the worst.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 10:04:29 AM
Both funny and not funny at the same time lol.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on February 01, 2021, 10:06:21 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:41:29 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 01, 2021, 07:57:30 AM
One issue with the low number of flu cases in 2020 is that it will make the flu vaccine for 2021 harder to create as they don't have the same levels of data to test for mutations.

Flu vaccines are rolled out every year but we are led to believe that we have no case of flu this year.

Covid tests have positive test rates of between 5-20% generally, so what about the people who test negative after claiming to have had symptoms? Just hypochondriacs?

And if lockdowns have eliminated flu this season, then surely governments have blood on their hands at the amount of deaths we experience every winter? Why are we so willing to accept excess deaths every winter from flu?

If they have symptoms and test negative there is a good chance it's just the common cold they have. Or an infection such as a throat infection causing a temperature. I thought as an expert in the area you'd know that?

Also a lot of people getting tested for various reasons that have no symptoms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 10:33:27 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 01, 2021, 10:06:21 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:41:29 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 01, 2021, 07:57:30 AM
One issue with the low number of flu cases in 2020 is that it will make the flu vaccine for 2021 harder to create as they don't have the same levels of data to test for mutations.

Flu vaccines are rolled out every year but we are led to believe that we have no case of flu this year.

Covid tests have positive test rates of between 5-20% generally, so what about the people who test negative after claiming to have had symptoms? Just hypochondriacs?

And if lockdowns have eliminated flu this season, then surely governments have blood on their hands at the amount of deaths we experience every winter? Why are we so willing to accept excess deaths every winter from flu?

If they have symptoms and test negative there is a good chance it's just the common cold they have. Or an infection such as a throat infection causing a temperature. I thought as an expert in the area you'd know that?

Also a lot of people getting tested for various reasons that have no symptoms.

So how has the flu disappeared?

Are we really expected to believe we've had no flu this year as our medical professionals tell us? Is that plausible?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 10:40:00 AM
From preliminary death figures, it also looks unlikely that the number of deaths in January 2021 will exceed the death toll from January 2018 where the Australian flu was associated with record death numbers in that month.

But of course we are perfectly willing to allow people die from flu......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 01, 2021, 11:06:24 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 10:40:00 AM
From preliminary death figures, it also looks unlikely that the number of deaths in January 2021 will exceed the death toll from January 2018 where the Australian flu was associated with record death numbers in that month.

But of course we are perfectly willing to allow people die from flu......

Where are we talking about? China?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on February 01, 2021, 11:21:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 10:40:00 AM
From preliminary death figures, it also looks unlikely that the number of deaths in January 2021 will exceed the death toll from January 2018 where the Australian flu was associated with record death numbers in that month.

But of course we are perfectly willing to allow people die from flu......

That was one month. Covid is going on month after month and is causing huge excess deaths and continued pressure on the health service. And that is despite lots of restrictions in place. If they let it run it's course with no restrictions then the numbers would be far worse.

I'm really not sure why you feel the need to keep comparing to that flu season. It's nothing like covid in terms of it's consequences and long last effects.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2021, 11:31:29 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 31, 2021, 03:37:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 31, 2021, 03:21:38 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 31, 2021, 02:47:08 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 01:45:03 PM
If only 1% of transmission of the virus happens outside why have we stopped
Outdoor sports
Outdoor retail
Golf

Starting to get awkward now

People who play sports have to train together as well. That means using the same dressing room/changing rooms etc.

The government want people to stay at home so they closed golf courses. They don't want people from different households traveling and meeting up.

I don't think you understand .

Fixed that for you. ;D

Thanks for that 👍

Latest cases in the south show an average age of 45 years old and the latest deaths include an individual only 30 years old.

Do you want to mention the fact that 1/3 of people in hospital with Covid picked up in hospital.

Or do you just want to pedal more scaremongering?

Seen a report for 18% was picked up in hospital.. you're saying a third of covid is picked up in hospital.. seems at odds with what I seen
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Ah so the deaths without lockdown were greater than the deaths with a lockdown. That's a very comparable stat...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:33:31 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 01, 2021, 11:21:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 10:40:00 AM
From preliminary death figures, it also looks unlikely that the number of deaths in January 2021 will exceed the death toll from January 2018 where the Australian flu was associated with record death numbers in that month.

But of course we are perfectly willing to allow people die from flu......

That was one month. Covid is going on month after month and is causing huge excess deaths and continued pressure on the health service. And that is despite lots of restrictions in place. If they let it run it's course with no restrictions then the numbers would be far worse.

I'm really not sure why you feel the need to keep comparing to that flu season. It's nothing like covid in terms of it's consequences and long last effects.

There were 50k excess deaths during the winter flu season in the UK Dec 17 - Mar 18. We accepted it without batting an eyelid.

It's hard to justify the reaction to Covid when we were so nonplussed about the levels of deaths associated with the Aussie flu in 17/18. It's quite clear the demograph that is at risk from Covid and the major failings that are responsible for these deaths are in the health service and care homes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:34:35 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Ah so the deaths without lockdown were greater than the deaths with a lockdown. That's a very comparable stat...

We had a vaccine for flu. Didn't stop it causing huge excess deaths and nobody batted an eyelid.

You seem to want to go and engage in mental gymnastics as to why that level of death is acceptable, only if its flu.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:36:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2021, 11:31:29 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 31, 2021, 03:37:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 31, 2021, 03:21:38 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 31, 2021, 02:47:08 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 01:45:03 PM
If only 1% of transmission of the virus happens outside why have we stopped
Outdoor sports
Outdoor retail
Golf

Starting to get awkward now

People who play sports have to train together as well. That means using the same dressing room/changing rooms etc.

The government want people to stay at home so they closed golf courses. They don't want people from different households traveling and meeting up.

I don't think you understand .

Fixed that for you. ;D

Thanks for that 👍

Latest cases in the south show an average age of 45 years old and the latest deaths include an individual only 30 years old.

Do you want to mention the fact that 1/3 of people in hospital with Covid picked up in hospital.

Or do you just want to pedal more scaremongering?

Seen a report for 18% was picked up in hospital.. you're saying a third of covid is picked up in hospital.. seems at odds with what I seen

https://www.thejournal.ie/third-contracting-covid-in-hospital-varadkar-5331491-Jan2021/

AS MANY AS a third of patients with Covid-19 in hospital contracted the virus while being cared for in the hospital, Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has said.

The Tánaiste said the situation in Irish hospitals is "very serious".

Currently, there are 1,949 confirmed cases in hospital, with 219 in ICU.

While these numbers are beginning to fall, Varadkar said it is not happening "at the pace we would like".

There are "real concerns" about the clusters emerging in Irish hospitals, he said, adding:

"We know that nursing home clusters and hospital clusters are numerous. There's a lot of them. Most deaths sadly occur in nursing homes and hospitals.

"And indeed, it seems that as many as a third of patients in hospital got Covid in hospital, they didn't come in Covid positive, they picked up Covid while in the hospital. Now some of them may not be sick as a result, they may be sick for a different reason.

"But it still is a matter of real concern that so many people are acquiring Covid in our hospitals."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:40:07 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:34:35 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Ah so the deaths without lockdown were greater than the deaths with a lockdown. That's a very comparable stat...

We had a vaccine for flu. Didn't stop it causing huge excess deaths and nobody batted an eyelid.

You seem to want to go and engage in mental gymnastics as to why that level of death is acceptable, only if its flu.

I'm glad you can tell me how I think. You've ignored my point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2021, 11:40:26 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:34:35 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Ah so the deaths without lockdown were greater than the deaths with a lockdown. That's a very comparable stat...

We had a vaccine for flu. Didn't stop it causing huge excess deaths and nobody batted an eyelid.

You seem to want to go and engage in mental gymnastics as to why that level of death is acceptable, only if its flu.

Back on the flu drum and access deaths.. the access deaths for flu was 22,000, not 50,000 so be more accurate with the figures.. There was a thread on here called the Aussie flu and lots of people discussed it and its effects at the time, so again inaccurate with your post, there was plenty in the news about it.

Are you saying the flu is the same as Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:41:06 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:40:07 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:34:35 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Ah so the deaths without lockdown were greater than the deaths with a lockdown. That's a very comparable stat...

We had a vaccine for flu. Didn't stop it causing huge excess deaths and nobody batted an eyelid.

You seem to want to go and engage in mental gymnastics as to why that level of death is acceptable, only if its flu.

I'm glad you can tell me how I think. You've ignored my point.

You're the one ignoring things here and performing mental gymnastics to defend record deaths in flu season.

Why was it ok in Jan 2018?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2021, 11:45:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:36:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2021, 11:31:29 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 31, 2021, 03:37:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 31, 2021, 03:21:38 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 31, 2021, 02:47:08 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 01:45:03 PM
If only 1% of transmission of the virus happens outside why have we stopped
Outdoor sports
Outdoor retail
Golf

Starting to get awkward now

People who play sports have to train together as well. That means using the same dressing room/changing rooms etc.

The government want people to stay at home so they closed golf courses. They don't want people from different households traveling and meeting up.

I don't think you understand .

Fixed that for you. ;D

Thanks for that 👍

Latest cases in the south show an average age of 45 years old and the latest deaths include an individual only 30 years old.

Do you want to mention the fact that 1/3 of people in hospital with Covid picked up in hospital.

Or do you just want to pedal more scaremongering?

Seen a report for 18% was picked up in hospital.. you're saying a third of covid is picked up in hospital.. seems at odds with what I seen

https://www.thejournal.ie/third-contracting-covid-in-hospital-varadkar-5331491-Jan2021/

AS MANY AS a third of patients with Covid-19 in hospital contracted the virus while being cared for in the hospital, Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has said.

The Tánaiste said the situation in Irish hospitals is "very serious".

Currently, there are 1,949 confirmed cases in hospital, with 219 in ICU.

While these numbers are beginning to fall, Varadkar said it is not happening "at the pace we would like".

There are "real concerns" about the clusters emerging in Irish hospitals, he said, adding:

"We know that nursing home clusters and hospital clusters are numerous. There's a lot of them. Most deaths sadly occur in nursing homes and hospitals.

"And indeed, it seems that as many as a third of patients in hospital got Covid in hospital, they didn't come in Covid positive, they picked up Covid while in the hospital. Now some of them may not be sick as a result, they may be sick for a different reason.

"But it still is a matter of real concern that so many people are acquiring Covid in our hospitals."

From a source you've used before, so it must be good...

To find "probable" hospital infections—that is, positive tests of patients who were in hospital for more than seven days—Full Fact was advised to find the difference between sets of data on new hospital cases and new hospital cases from the community. The data suggests that, between 1 August and 26 November, there were around 10,000 nosocomial infections (approximately 16% of all coronavirus infections recorded in hospitals).

This data is also broken down by hospital, but the issue is that people who develop symptoms and then test positive eight days after admission could still have been infected before they were admitted, as symptoms can take up to 14 days to appear. This makes it very difficult to be sure that these infections are definitely hospital acquired.

In May, it was reported that NHS England estimated that 10-20% of people in hospital with coronavirus had been infected while they were inpatients.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:46:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2021, 11:40:26 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:34:35 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Ah so the deaths without lockdown were greater than the deaths with a lockdown. That's a very comparable stat...

We had a vaccine for flu. Didn't stop it causing huge excess deaths and nobody batted an eyelid.

You seem to want to go and engage in mental gymnastics as to why that level of death is acceptable, only if its flu.

Back on the flu drum and access deaths.. the access deaths for flu was 22,000, not 50,000 so be more accurate with the figures.. There was a thread on here called the Aussie flu and lots of people discussed it and its effects at the time, so again inaccurate with your post, there was plenty in the news about it.

Are you saying the flu is the same as Covid?

Access deaths?

Was anyone calling for lockdowns, shutting businesses down, stopping people from visiting friends and loved ones for months during the flu season? Or did they just accept those level of deaths and say it's awful but these things happen?

It's clear what I'm saying, we accept record deaths during a flu season but when a new virus comes along with a different name we shut down society. It's clear the demograph who are the people at risk from Covid and those people have been failed by governments and the health dept in how they have handled this virus in hospitals and care homes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:48:32 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2021, 11:45:03 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:36:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2021, 11:31:29 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 31, 2021, 03:37:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 31, 2021, 03:21:38 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on January 31, 2021, 02:47:08 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 31, 2021, 01:45:03 PM
If only 1% of transmission of the virus happens outside why have we stopped
Outdoor sports
Outdoor retail
Golf

Starting to get awkward now

People who play sports have to train together as well. That means using the same dressing room/changing rooms etc.

The government want people to stay at home so they closed golf courses. They don't want people from different households traveling and meeting up.

I don't think you understand .

Fixed that for you. ;D

Thanks for that 👍

Latest cases in the south show an average age of 45 years old and the latest deaths include an individual only 30 years old.

Do you want to mention the fact that 1/3 of people in hospital with Covid picked up in hospital.

Or do you just want to pedal more scaremongering?

Seen a report for 18% was picked up in hospital.. you're saying a third of covid is picked up in hospital.. seems at odds with what I seen

https://www.thejournal.ie/third-contracting-covid-in-hospital-varadkar-5331491-Jan2021/

AS MANY AS a third of patients with Covid-19 in hospital contracted the virus while being cared for in the hospital, Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has said.

The Tánaiste said the situation in Irish hospitals is "very serious".

Currently, there are 1,949 confirmed cases in hospital, with 219 in ICU.

While these numbers are beginning to fall, Varadkar said it is not happening "at the pace we would like".

There are "real concerns" about the clusters emerging in Irish hospitals, he said, adding:

"We know that nursing home clusters and hospital clusters are numerous. There's a lot of them. Most deaths sadly occur in nursing homes and hospitals.

"And indeed, it seems that as many as a third of patients in hospital got Covid in hospital, they didn't come in Covid positive, they picked up Covid while in the hospital. Now some of them may not be sick as a result, they may be sick for a different reason.

"But it still is a matter of real concern that so many people are acquiring Covid in our hospitals."

From a source you've used before, so it must be good...

To find "probable" hospital infections—that is, positive tests of patients who were in hospital for more than seven days—Full Fact was advised to find the difference between sets of data on new hospital cases and new hospital cases from the community. The data suggests that, between 1 August and 26 November, there were around 10,000 nosocomial infections (approximately 16% of all coronavirus infections recorded in hospitals).

This data is also broken down by hospital, but the issue is that people who develop symptoms and then test positive eight days after admission could still have been infected before they were admitted, as symptoms can take up to 14 days to appear. This makes it very difficult to be sure that these infections are definitely hospital acquired.

In May, it was reported that NHS England estimated that 10-20% of people in hospital with coronavirus had been infected while they were inpatients.

I said 1/3 and that's my source on it.

If you want to disregard it for a report 8 months ago then I suppose you are reaching for something that ties in with your agenda, aren't you?

We keep hearing excuses from the health service, they have fucked this up and people have died as a result. But it's easier pin the blame on somebody to visiting a friend or relative that they have not seen in a long time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2021, 12:03:20 PM
No this report was from 1st of August to end of November. this is a source you have used in the past
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:41:06 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:40:07 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:34:35 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Ah so the deaths without lockdown were greater than the deaths with a lockdown. That's a very comparable stat...

We had a vaccine for flu. Didn't stop it causing huge excess deaths and nobody batted an eyelid.

You seem to want to go and engage in mental gymnastics as to why that level of death is acceptable, only if its flu.

I'm glad you can tell me how I think. You've ignored my point.

You're the one ignoring things here and performing mental gymnastics to defend record deaths in flu season.

Why was it ok in Jan 2018?

Who said it was?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2021, 12:06:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:41:06 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:40:07 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:34:35 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Ah so the deaths without lockdown were greater than the deaths with a lockdown. That's a very comparable stat...

We had a vaccine for flu. Didn't stop it causing huge excess deaths and nobody batted an eyelid.

You seem to want to go and engage in mental gymnastics as to why that level of death is acceptable, only if its flu.

I'm glad you can tell me how I think. You've ignored my point.

You're the one ignoring things here and performing mental gymnastics to defend record deaths in flu season.

Why was it ok in Jan 2018?

Who said it was?

Apparently everyone said nothing.. though there is a thread on here about the very same flu outbreak and plenty of news about in at the time, which caused so much death 22,000 (not 50k)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 12:37:14 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:41:06 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:40:07 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:34:35 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Ah so the deaths without lockdown were greater than the deaths with a lockdown. That's a very comparable stat...

We had a vaccine for flu. Didn't stop it causing huge excess deaths and nobody batted an eyelid.

You seem to want to go and engage in mental gymnastics as to why that level of death is acceptable, only if its flu.

I'm glad you can tell me how I think. You've ignored my point.

You're the one ignoring things here and performing mental gymnastics to defend record deaths in flu season.

Why was it ok in Jan 2018?

Who said it was?

Well if you didn't think it was ok can you show me where you were screaming for lockdowns back then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 12:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2021, 12:06:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:41:06 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:40:07 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:34:35 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Ah so the deaths without lockdown were greater than the deaths with a lockdown. That's a very comparable stat...

We had a vaccine for flu. Didn't stop it causing huge excess deaths and nobody batted an eyelid.

You seem to want to go and engage in mental gymnastics as to why that level of death is acceptable, only if its flu.

I'm glad you can tell me how I think. You've ignored my point.

You're the one ignoring things here and performing mental gymnastics to defend record deaths in flu season.

Why was it ok in Jan 2018?

Who said it was?

Apparently everyone said nothing.. though there is a thread on here about the very same flu outbreak and plenty of news about in at the time, which caused so much death 22,000 (not 50k)

So were or were you not shouting for lockdowns back then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on February 01, 2021, 12:58:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 12:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2021, 12:06:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:41:06 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:40:07 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:34:35 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Ah so the deaths without lockdown were greater than the deaths with a lockdown. That's a very comparable stat...

We had a vaccine for flu. Didn't stop it causing huge excess deaths and nobody batted an eyelid.

You seem to want to go and engage in mental gymnastics as to why that level of death is acceptable, only if its flu.

I'm glad you can tell me how I think. You've ignored my point.

You're the one ignoring things here and performing mental gymnastics to defend record deaths in flu season.

Why was it ok in Jan 2018?

Who said it was?

Apparently everyone said nothing.. though there is a thread on here about the very same flu outbreak and plenty of news about in at the time, which caused so much death 22,000 (not 50k)

So were or were you not shouting for lockdowns back then?

Were you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 01:13:14 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 01, 2021, 12:58:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 12:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2021, 12:06:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:41:06 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:40:07 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:34:35 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Ah so the deaths without lockdown were greater than the deaths with a lockdown. That's a very comparable stat...

We had a vaccine for flu. Didn't stop it causing huge excess deaths and nobody batted an eyelid.

You seem to want to go and engage in mental gymnastics as to why that level of death is acceptable, only if its flu.

I'm glad you can tell me how I think. You've ignored my point.

You're the one ignoring things here and performing mental gymnastics to defend record deaths in flu season.

Why was it ok in Jan 2018?

Who said it was?

Apparently everyone said nothing.. though there is a thread on here about the very same flu outbreak and plenty of news about in at the time, which caused so much death 22,000 (not 50k)

So were or were you not shouting for lockdowns back then?

Were you?

I wasn't, neither am I shouting for them now,

I'm not a hypocrite like some on here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 01, 2021, 01:43:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:41:06 AM
You're the one ignoring things here and performing mental gymnastics to defend record deaths in flu season.

Why was it ok in Jan 2018?

If you compare the excess deaths for the USA, the Covid peak compared to 2018 is like comparing the Sperrins to the Himalayas.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/14/us/covid-19-death-toll.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 01:46:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 01, 2021, 01:43:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:41:06 AM
You're the one ignoring things here and performing mental gymnastics to defend record deaths in flu season.

Why was it ok in Jan 2018?

If you compare the excess deaths for the USA, the Covid peak compared to 2018 is like comparing the Sperrins to the Himalayas.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/14/us/covid-19-death-toll.html

Not really concerned about America, am I?

Here the winter flu season of 17/18 would seem to have comparable death tolls to the same season in 20/21.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on February 01, 2021, 01:56:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 01:13:14 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 01, 2021, 12:58:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 12:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2021, 12:06:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:41:06 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:40:07 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:34:35 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Ah so the deaths without lockdown were greater than the deaths with a lockdown. That's a very comparable stat...

We had a vaccine for flu. Didn't stop it causing huge excess deaths and nobody batted an eyelid.

You seem to want to go and engage in mental gymnastics as to why that level of death is acceptable, only if its flu.

I'm glad you can tell me how I think. You've ignored my point.

You're the one ignoring things here and performing mental gymnastics to defend record deaths in flu season.

Why was it ok in Jan 2018?

Who said it was?

Apparently everyone said nothing.. though there is a thread on here about the very same flu outbreak and plenty of news about in at the time, which caused so much death 22,000 (not 50k)

So were or were you not shouting for lockdowns back then?

Were you?

I wasn't, neither am I shouting for them now,

I'm not a hypocrite like some on here.

so 22/50K excess deaths over a 4 to 5 month period you could accept??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 02:00:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 01, 2021, 01:56:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 01:13:14 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 01, 2021, 12:58:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 12:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2021, 12:06:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:41:06 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:40:07 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:34:35 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Ah so the deaths without lockdown were greater than the deaths with a lockdown. That's a very comparable stat...

We had a vaccine for flu. Didn't stop it causing huge excess deaths and nobody batted an eyelid.

You seem to want to go and engage in mental gymnastics as to why that level of death is acceptable, only if its flu.

I'm glad you can tell me how I think. You've ignored my point.

You're the one ignoring things here and performing mental gymnastics to defend record deaths in flu season.

Why was it ok in Jan 2018?

Who said it was?

Apparently everyone said nothing.. though there is a thread on here about the very same flu outbreak and plenty of news about in at the time, which caused so much death 22,000 (not 50k)

So were or were you not shouting for lockdowns back then?

Were you?

I wasn't, neither am I shouting for them now,

I'm not a hypocrite like some on here.

so 22/50K excess deaths over a 4 to 5 month period you could accept??

You were happy to accept it too.

I didn't hear many speaking out against it. Were you looking for lockdowns back then?

You guys seem very preoccupied with what I think but you are not too forthcoming yourselves?

Would it be down to your hypocrisy by any chance? Tell me what you thought about the winter flu season in 17/18 Johnny? Show me your outrage back then where you looked for lockdowns to save lives?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 01, 2021, 02:02:31 PM
 https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/surveillance/influenzasurveillancereports/previousinfluenzaseasonssurveillancereports/20172018season/Influenza%202017-2018%20Annual%20Summary_Final.pdf (https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/surveillance/influenzasurveillancereports/previousinfluenzaseasonssurveillancereports/20172018season/Influenza%202017-2018%20Annual%20Summary_Final.pdf)

Angelo - would you just give over about the 2017/18 Flu season. You can rabbit on about it, people tragically lost their lives but it wasn't on the scale of Covid. It was excessive and worse than other years but it made the news, people discussed it and was a subsequent ramp up in vaccines for future flu seasons.

For ROI as per the above HSE report there was total of 255 deaths for the Flu in the entire season. Tragic for those affected. But we've had over 1,000 in January alone with massive restrictions in place.

The problem with common sense is that it's not common enough.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 02:04:57 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 01, 2021, 02:02:31 PM
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/surveillance/influenzasurveillancereports/previousinfluenzaseasonssurveillancereports/20172018season/Influenza%202017-2018%20Annual%20Summary_Final.pdf (https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/surveillance/influenzasurveillancereports/previousinfluenzaseasonssurveillancereports/20172018season/Influenza%202017-2018%20Annual%20Summary_Final.pdf)

Angelo - would you just give over about the 2017/18 Flu season. You can rabbit on about it, people tragically lost their lives but it wasn't on the scale of Covid. It was excessive and worse than other years but it made the news, people discussed it and was a subsequent ramp up in vaccines for future flu seasons.

For ROI as per the above HSE report there was total of 255 deaths for the Flu in the entire season. Tragic for those affected. But we've had over 1,000 in January alone with massive restrictions in place.

The problem with common sense is that it's not common enough.

Which login did you mean to post that under?

The numbers of the 2017/18 winter flu are very clear.

I just find it odd how people can defend that death toll as acceptable and nothing to worry about yet call for the total shutdown of society for Covid.

It defies any semblance of logic. What is clear that people like you are extremely uncomfortable with their contradictions being highlighted?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 01, 2021, 02:06:04 PM
Yes, very clear - 255 in the 2017/18 flu season. As clear as day, thank you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 02:12:34 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 01, 2021, 02:06:04 PM
Yes, very clear - 255 in the 2017/18 flu season. As clear as day, thank you.

So how did 2,101 people die in Jan 2018?

Whose alias are you on here?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 01, 2021, 02:18:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 02:12:34 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 01, 2021, 02:06:04 PM
Yes, very clear - 255 in the 2017/18 flu season. As clear as day, thank you.

So how did 2,101 people die in Jan 2018?

Whose alias are you on here?

Where the 2,101 from? The HSE haven't included such a figure in their report I linked which still classed the 2017/18 flu season as severe. Have you carried out your own independent report and autopsies? Or you just making stuff up?

What aliases you on about?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 02:20:03 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 01, 2021, 02:18:18 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 02:12:34 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 01, 2021, 02:06:04 PM
Yes, very clear - 255 in the 2017/18 flu season. As clear as day, thank you.

So how did 2,101 people die in Jan 2018?

Whose alias are you on here?

Where the 2,101 from? The HSE haven't included such a figure in their report I linked which still classed the 2017/18 flu season as severe. Have you carried out your own independent report and autopsies? Or you just making stuff up?

What aliases you on about?

The 2,101 are from NISRA.

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/1/3/136c88ab4eedf640242f960d8595c397123e2a9b.png)

I don't make stuff up and I'm talking about which other account you post under on here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 01, 2021, 02:26:24 PM
That table total deaths? Means nothing to support your claims. 2,101 is total deaths, not flu. The excess could be partly accounted for the flu season - an 283 increase from 2017 to 2018. Year on year 2018 wasn't worse than other years.

If that's the best you can do, god love you!

And I was actually using ROI figures, which you've just ignored the fact that numbers don't compare to January 2021.

I've no other account. Just took interest in your House of Lies of wanted to challenge you on them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 02:30:03 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 01, 2021, 02:26:24 PM
That table total deaths? Means nothing to support your claims. 2,101 is total deaths, not flu. The excess could be partly accounted for the flu season - an 283 increase from 2017 to 2018. Year on year 2018 wasn't worse than other years.

If that's the best you can do, god love you!

And I was actually using ROI figures, which you've just ignored the fact that numbers don't compare to January 2021.

I've no other account. Just took interest in your House of Lies of wanted to challenge you on them.

You might have mentioned Free State figures but I have consistently referenced the NISRA figures and 50k excess death figures in the UK during the flu season of 17/18.

How do you think those people died? What could cause such a massive spike at winter? Why do we see far more deaths at winter than any other time of the year? What do the experts generally conclude for the spike of deaths in that time.

I also think you should have a detailed look into the criteria of how Covid deaths are classified.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on February 01, 2021, 02:35:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 01:46:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 01, 2021, 01:43:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:41:06 AM
You're the one ignoring things here and performing mental gymnastics to defend record deaths in flu season.

Why was it ok in Jan 2018?

If you compare the excess deaths for the USA, the Covid peak compared to 2018 is like comparing the Sperrins to the Himalayas.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/14/us/covid-19-death-toll.html

Not really concerned about America, am I?


Angelo, just stop for one minute and think about what you are saying here. You're "not really concerned about America" here because the data shows that America dealt with COVID pretty badly.  No what was it that America didn't do much of compared to most other countries?
That's right; impose lockdowns and wear masks.

You are against lockdowns, no one likes them, but anyone sensible would realise that going into lockdown repeatedly has kept the number of deaths much less than they would have been had we not had any lockdowns as was the case with your repeated bad flu season.
If we didn't do that we would probably be more like the USA.

Just stop please. Your are destroying this board with your constant repetition of the same arguments.  But worse than that, you refuse take on board any of the comments that anyone else makes

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2021, 02:41:35 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on February 01, 2021, 02:35:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 01:46:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 01, 2021, 01:43:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:41:06 AM
You're the one ignoring things here and performing mental gymnastics to defend record deaths in flu season.

Why was it ok in Jan 2018?

If you compare the excess deaths for the USA, the Covid peak compared to 2018 is like comparing the Sperrins to the Himalayas.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/14/us/covid-19-death-toll.html

Not really concerned about America, am I?


Angelo, just stop for one minute and think about what you are saying here. You're "not really concerned about America" here because the data shows that America dealt with COVID pretty badly.  No what was it that America didn't do much of compared to most other countries?
That's right; impose lockdowns and wear masks.

You are against lockdowns, no one likes them, but anyone sensible would realise that going into lockdown repeatedly has kept the number of deaths much less than they would have been had we not had any lockdowns as was the case with your repeated bad flu season.
If we didn't do that we would probably be more like the USA.

Just stop please. Your are destroying this board with your constant repetition of the same arguments.  But worse than that, you refuse take on board any of the comments that anyone else makes

He's only concerned with figures that suit his 'facts'
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 01, 2021, 02:47:13 PM
NIRSA figures show an increase for a few months but nothing excessive. Not comparing to HSE? Why not? Did the flu stop at the border but was other factors in play.

Also, your 50,000 excess deaths in UK for 2018. This was above the average for a period, not 50k excess from 2017, was an actual increase of approx 10k on 2017 and 30k on 2016. Part of these increases were attributed to the flu but also to the extremely cold spell in 2018 which made older people more vulnerable to various illness.

And in case you didn't notice, Covid isn't exclusive to the UK, so why you just looking at UK figures. Hardly just as it suits your agenda?

Do you think that without restrictions that the death toll be the same? Or not realise it be a total sh*w show, even with how bad it has been?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 02:51:11 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on February 01, 2021, 02:35:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 01:46:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 01, 2021, 01:43:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:41:06 AM
You're the one ignoring things here and performing mental gymnastics to defend record deaths in flu season.

Why was it ok in Jan 2018?

If you compare the excess deaths for the USA, the Covid peak compared to 2018 is like comparing the Sperrins to the Himalayas.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/14/us/covid-19-death-toll.html

Not really concerned about America, am I?


Angelo, just stop for one minute and think about what you are saying here. You're "not really concerned about America" here because the data shows that America dealt with COVID pretty badly.  No what was it that America didn't do much of compared to most other countries?
That's right; impose lockdowns and wear masks.

You are against lockdowns, no one likes them, but anyone sensible would realise that going into lockdown repeatedly has kept the number of deaths much less than they would have been had we not had any lockdowns as was the case with your repeated bad flu season.
If we didn't do that we would probably be more like the USA.

Just stop please. Your are destroying this board with your constant repetition of the same arguments.  But worse than that, you refuse take on board any of the comments that anyone else makes

I'm not concerned about America.

I don't care about Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Obama, Bush. It's a war mongering, racist country with huge obesity issues on the other side of the world. Why do you care about it?

We are led to believe lockdowns wiped out seasonal flu this year. Think of all the lives we don't care about that we could have saved from introducing them every winter for flu?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 02:54:30 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 01, 2021, 02:47:13 PM
NIRSA figures show an increase for a few months but nothing excessive. Not comparing to HSE? Why not? Did the flu stop at the border but was other factors in play.

Also, your 50,000 excess deaths in UK for 2018. This was above the average for a period, not 50k excess from 2017, was an actual increase of approx 10k on 2017 and 30k on 2016. Part of these increases were attributed to the flu but also to the extremely cold spell in 2018 which made older people more vulnerable to various illness.

And in case you didn't notice, Covid isn't exclusive to the UK, so why you just looking at UK figures. Hardly just as it suits your agenda?

Do you think that without restrictions that the death toll be the same? Or not realise it be a total sh*w show, even with how bad it has been?

So now you are trying to manipulate statistics to say that a few months of excess deaths is ok. Jan 2018 is a record death total in a month for the past 20 years, it's ok though right? I

We had a vaccine for the flu, didn't stop a shitshow then but it also didn't seem to bother people either that so many died in that month.

Covid sure has a way of showing people for being gullible and hysterical.

We've had an extremely cold spell this month. It was -7 when I got up the other morning for work, will I chalk those Covid deaths down to a cold snap so?

You are jumping through hoops to justify your contradictions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2021, 02:54:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 02:51:11 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on February 01, 2021, 02:35:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 01:46:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 01, 2021, 01:43:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:41:06 AM
You're the one ignoring things here and performing mental gymnastics to defend record deaths in flu season.

Why was it ok in Jan 2018?

If you compare the excess deaths for the USA, the Covid peak compared to 2018 is like comparing the Sperrins to the Himalayas.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/14/us/covid-19-death-toll.html

Not really concerned about America, am I?


Angelo, just stop for one minute and think about what you are saying here. You're "not really concerned about America" here because the data shows that America dealt with COVID pretty badly.  No what was it that America didn't do much of compared to most other countries?
That's right; impose lockdowns and wear masks.

You are against lockdowns, no one likes them, but anyone sensible would realise that going into lockdown repeatedly has kept the number of deaths much less than they would have been had we not had any lockdowns as was the case with your repeated bad flu season.
If we didn't do that we would probably be more like the USA.

Just stop please. Your are destroying this board with your constant repetition of the same arguments.  But worse than that, you refuse take on board any of the comments that anyone else makes

I'm not concerned about America.

I don't care about Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Obama, Bush. It's a war mongering, racist country with huge obesity issues on the other side of the world. Why do you care about it?

So why are you quoting the south earlier?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 01, 2021, 02:59:56 PM
It's been done before with Angelo over why comparing 2020 with 2018 is pointless. Your comparing a year with lockdowns against a year with none. Your comparing the worst winter deaths (Not flu) in 40 odd years with year 1 of Covid. But it's a fruitless discussion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 03:05:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2021, 02:54:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 02:51:11 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on February 01, 2021, 02:35:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 01:46:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 01, 2021, 01:43:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:41:06 AM
You're the one ignoring things here and performing mental gymnastics to defend record deaths in flu season.

Why was it ok in Jan 2018?

If you compare the excess deaths for the USA, the Covid peak compared to 2018 is like comparing the Sperrins to the Himalayas.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/14/us/covid-19-death-toll.html

Not really concerned about America, am I?


Angelo, just stop for one minute and think about what you are saying here. You're "not really concerned about America" here because the data shows that America dealt with COVID pretty badly.  No what was it that America didn't do much of compared to most other countries?
That's right; impose lockdowns and wear masks.

You are against lockdowns, no one likes them, but anyone sensible would realise that going into lockdown repeatedly has kept the number of deaths much less than they would have been had we not had any lockdowns as was the case with your repeated bad flu season.
If we didn't do that we would probably be more like the USA.

Just stop please. Your are destroying this board with your constant repetition of the same arguments.  But worse than that, you refuse take on board any of the comments that anyone else makes

I'm not concerned about America.

I don't care about Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Obama, Bush. It's a war mongering, racist country with huge obesity issues on the other side of the world. Why do you care about it?

So why are you quoting the south earlier?

Because I live on the island of Ireland.

I'm not American. I do not care for America and I'm no obsessed with American politics like some on here. I just don't care for anything to do with America really, I find the obsession some have with it utterly weird.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 03:07:11 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 01, 2021, 02:59:56 PM
It's been done before with Angelo over why comparing 2020 with 2018 is pointless. Your comparing a year with lockdowns against a year with none. Your comparing the worst winter deaths (Not flu) in 40 odd years with year 1 of Covid. But it's a fruitless discussion.

I know why you guys don't like comparing it.

It's hard to justify your stance on Covid when you were willing to accept and do nothing when 2,101 people died in Jan 2018. If you tolerated that and said nothing then how can you justify the reaction to Covid?

It's complete and utter double standards. It's not pointless. it is incredibly relevant.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 01, 2021, 03:07:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 02:54:30 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 01, 2021, 02:47:13 PM
NIRSA figures show an increase for a few months but nothing excessive. Not comparing to HSE? Why not? Did the flu stop at the border but was other factors in play.

Also, your 50,000 excess deaths in UK for 2018. This was above the average for a period, not 50k excess from 2017, was an actual increase of approx 10k on 2017 and 30k on 2016. Part of these increases were attributed to the flu but also to the extremely cold spell in 2018 which made older people more vulnerable to various illness.

And in case you didn't notice, Covid isn't exclusive to the UK, so why you just looking at UK figures. Hardly just as it suits your agenda?

Do you think that without restrictions that the death toll be the same? Or not realise it be a total sh*w show, even with how bad it has been?

So now you are trying to manipulate statistics to say that a few months of excess deaths is ok. Jan 2018 is a record death total in a month for the past 20 years, it's ok though right? I

We had a vaccine for the flu, didn't stop a shitshow then but it also didn't seem to bother people either that so many died in that month.

Covid sure has a way of showing people for being gullible and hysterical.

We've had an extremely cold spell this month. It was -7 when I got up the other morning for work, will I chalk those Covid deaths down to a cold snap so?

You are jumping through hoops to justify your contradictions.

There he goes, applying his own logic and "facts" to replies other people have made.

I have said that the excess deaths where attributable to flu and other factors.
Give me the specific statistic I have manipulated. Read a few reports on the 2018 flu season from the UK and they will all reference exactly what I have. Here is a very detailed report of factors, comparisons etc.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/excesswintermortalityinenglandandwales/2017to2018provisionaland2016to2017final (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/excesswintermortalityinenglandandwales/2017to2018provisionaland2016to2017final)

All compared to the previous years (2017,2016) and increase I have referenced.

The flu Vaccine was met with a new variant, all explained to you before, that limited it's effectiveness. But it was a starting point, that we still don't have with Covid. That is very basic information that a reasonable person can understand.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 03:09:49 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 01, 2021, 03:07:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 02:54:30 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 01, 2021, 02:47:13 PM
NIRSA figures show an increase for a few months but nothing excessive. Not comparing to HSE? Why not? Did the flu stop at the border but was other factors in play.

Also, your 50,000 excess deaths in UK for 2018. This was above the average for a period, not 50k excess from 2017, was an actual increase of approx 10k on 2017 and 30k on 2016. Part of these increases were attributed to the flu but also to the extremely cold spell in 2018 which made older people more vulnerable to various illness.

And in case you didn't notice, Covid isn't exclusive to the UK, so why you just looking at UK figures. Hardly just as it suits your agenda?

Do you think that without restrictions that the death toll be the same? Or not realise it be a total sh*w show, even with how bad it has been?

So now you are trying to manipulate statistics to say that a few months of excess deaths is ok. Jan 2018 is a record death total in a month for the past 20 years, it's ok though right? I

We had a vaccine for the flu, didn't stop a shitshow then but it also didn't seem to bother people either that so many died in that month.

Covid sure has a way of showing people for being gullible and hysterical.

We've had an extremely cold spell this month. It was -7 when I got up the other morning for work, will I chalk those Covid deaths down to a cold snap so?

You are jumping through hoops to justify your contradictions.

There he goes, applying his own logic and "facts" to replies other people have made.

I have said that the excess deaths where attributable to flu and other factors.
Give me the specific statistic I have manipulated. Read a few reports on the 2018 flu season from the UK and they will all reference exactly what I have. Here is a very detailed report of factors, comparisons etc.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/excesswintermortalityinenglandandwales/2017to2018provisionaland2016to2017final (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/excesswintermortalityinenglandandwales/2017to2018provisionaland2016to2017final)

All compared to the previous years (2017,2016) and increase I have referenced.

The flu Vaccine was met with a new variant, all explained to you before, that limited it's effectiveness. But it was a starting point, that we still don't have with Covid. That is very basic information that a reasonable person can understand.

But you are justifying those figures, rolling out excuses as to why society had to accept them. Why did we not lockdown then, why were people not hysterical about that level of death.

It's a complete and utter double standard.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 01, 2021, 03:09:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 03:07:11 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 01, 2021, 02:59:56 PM
It's been done before with Angelo over why comparing 2020 with 2018 is pointless. Your comparing a year with lockdowns against a year with none. Your comparing the worst winter deaths (Not flu) in 40 odd years with year 1 of Covid. But it's a fruitless discussion.

I know why you guys don't like comparing it.

It's hard to justify your stance on Covid when you were willing to accept and do nothing when 2,101 people died in Jan 2018. If you tolerated that and said nothing then how can you justify the reaction to Covid?

It's complete and utter double standards. It's not pointless. it is incredibly relevant.

As I said fruitless discussion. Your desperation to compare apples with oranges over rides everything.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 03:14:05 PM
Why isn't this comparison all over the internet, the media, political discussions across all of the UK and the discussions that the CMOs have?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 03:15:32 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 01, 2021, 03:09:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 03:07:11 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 01, 2021, 02:59:56 PM
It's been done before with Angelo over why comparing 2020 with 2018 is pointless. Your comparing a year with lockdowns against a year with none. Your comparing the worst winter deaths (Not flu) in 40 odd years with year 1 of Covid. But it's a fruitless discussion.

I know why you guys don't like comparing it.

It's hard to justify your stance on Covid when you were willing to accept and do nothing when 2,101 people died in Jan 2018. If you tolerated that and said nothing then how can you justify the reaction to Covid?

It's complete and utter double standards. It's not pointless. it is incredibly relevant.

As I said fruitless discussion. Your desperation to compare apples with oranges over rides everything.

Death at winter is not an apples v oranges debate.

Saving lives doesn't seem to be the modus operandi of lockdowns, hysteria does.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 03:17:21 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 03:14:05 PM
Why isn't this comparison all over the internet, the media, political discussions across all of the UK and the discussions that the CMOs have?

The same reason CMOs are not blaming hospitals and health sector they have a responsibility in running are a huge factor in deaths. It's easier for them to blame the people. Just as its easier for governments to blame the people or new variants.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 03:19:40 PM
So basically you think this is all a cover up lol. Gotcha.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 01, 2021, 03:22:10 PM
Society didn't accept them - every year there is a campaign to get more people to take the flu jab. The health service increase capacity and it remains stretched but it can function and maintain its services and elective functions. It's constantly on the news in these times about bed shortages and trolley counts, it's a main talking point in political elections, etc etc. It's not ignored nor is  it accepted.

The development of the vaccine for the flu has been massive and even it can't keep ahead of the flu.

Covid isn't in same league as the flu. Much higher mortality rate, no vaccine, not enough known on its treatments, transmission, mutations. No one knows how it will develop into the future.

The bottom line is that Angelo is one of these people who care not for others, he holds no responsibility for anyone but Angelo. He's obviously annoyed he can't get to Benidorm or to the pub at the weekend and thinks he's that he is been wronged and nothing else really matters. He should be able to do what he pleases, to hell with everyone else.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 01, 2021, 03:22:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 03:15:32 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 01, 2021, 03:09:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 03:07:11 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 01, 2021, 02:59:56 PM
It's been done before with Angelo over why comparing 2020 with 2018 is pointless. Your comparing a year with lockdowns against a year with none. Your comparing the worst winter deaths (Not flu) in 40 odd years with year 1 of Covid. But it's a fruitless discussion.

I know why you guys don't like comparing it.

It's hard to justify your stance on Covid when you were willing to accept and do nothing when 2,101 people died in Jan 2018. If you tolerated that and said nothing then how can you justify the reaction to Covid?

It's complete and utter double standards. It's not pointless. it is incredibly relevant.

As I said fruitless discussion. Your desperation to compare apples with oranges over rides everything.

Death at winter is not an apples v oranges debate.

Saving lives doesn't seem to be the modus operandi of lockdowns, hysteria does.

Comparing 2020 with 2018 is very much apples and oranges. If there had been no restrictions in 2020 then it may have been a discussion. Albeit slightly skewed by the fact you've picked the worst year in 40. But definitely a valid comparison. However there were restrictions in 2020. So the comparison is pointless.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on February 01, 2021, 03:25:51 PM
Just taking your data source and comparing every monthly death total against the previous four year average tells you that 2020 is an outlier.
(https://i.imgur.com/V8IeQhm.png)


When you look at these figures based on a 12 month period from April to March, it will be very telling. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 01, 2021, 03:30:53 PM
Excellent summary APM and very worrying figures, a lot of loss of life with all the measures that have been undertaken.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 01, 2021, 03:36:22 PM
2020 deaths in England and Wales were 13% higher than 2019
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 01, 2021, 03:48:41 PM
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-thousands-attend-rabbi-s-funeral-in-jerusalem-police-says-won-t-confront-20-000-1.9497649

Thousands Attend Rabbi's Funeral in Jerusalem
Amid COVID Lockdown; Police Say Won't Confront 20,000 mourners
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Boycey on February 01, 2021, 04:10:33 PM
Covid experts in the North what are my best options for getting regular staff testing. We're a construction company doing essential work on mid Ulster site. Client getting spooked after a couple went down with Covid last week and talking about us implementing checks. What would be most cost effective way?

TIA
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 04:16:49 PM
Quote from: APM on February 01, 2021, 03:25:51 PM
Just taking your data source and comparing every monthly death total against the previous four year average tells you that 2020 is an outlier.
(https://i.imgur.com/V8IeQhm.png)


  • 12% higher than the average of the four previous years. Unprecedented level of increase in the 10 year period
  • Increases of over 10% in 6 months of the year, again unprecedented
  • Note that in previous years, where there was a 10% increase in one month, there may have been have been a 9 or 10% decrease the following month.
    This didn't happen in 2020, where there have been no months of significant decrease since the crisis began
  • January 2018 was an outlier in the context of 2018.  But there were some months where there were substantial decreases in 2018.  Not the case in 2020.
  • Look at the increase in April against the 4 year average - 53%. Unprecedented level of increase.

When you look at these figures based on a 12 month period from April to March, it will be very telling.

April is a huge outlier.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on February 01, 2021, 04:26:50 PM
By that stretch, so too is January 2018.

Interesting when you look at the sustained increase from October 2017 to April 18, you see the impact of the bad flu that was in circulation that year.  I had the flu myself that January and it was bad.

Covid must be a key driver of the substantial increase in April and the key point is that since April, we have had substantial increases in every single month except August.  It fits the trend.  Clearly this trend will continue through January and into February.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on February 01, 2021, 04:27:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 02:00:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 01, 2021, 01:56:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 01:13:14 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 01, 2021, 12:58:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 12:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2021, 12:06:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:41:06 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:40:07 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:34:35 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Ah so the deaths without lockdown were greater than the deaths with a lockdown. That's a very comparable stat...

We had a vaccine for flu. Didn't stop it causing huge excess deaths and nobody batted an eyelid.

You seem to want to go and engage in mental gymnastics as to why that level of death is acceptable, only if its flu.

I'm glad you can tell me how I think. You've ignored my point.

You're the one ignoring things here and performing mental gymnastics to defend record deaths in flu season.

Why was it ok in Jan 2018?

Who said it was?

Apparently everyone said nothing.. though there is a thread on here about the very same flu outbreak and plenty of news about in at the time, which caused so much death 22,000 (not 50k)

So were or were you not shouting for lockdowns back then?

Were you?

I wasn't, neither am I shouting for them now,

I'm not a hypocrite like some on here.

so 22/50K excess deaths over a 4 to 5 month period you could accept??

You were happy to accept it too.

I didn't hear many speaking out against it. Were you looking for lockdowns back then?

You guys seem very preoccupied with what I think but you are not too forthcoming yourselves?

Would it be down to your hypocrisy by any chance? Tell me what you thought about the winter flu season in 17/18 Johnny? Show me your outrage back then where you looked for lockdowns to save lives?

so keep making the same mistakes, is that what you say?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 04:28:39 PM
Quote from: APM on February 01, 2021, 04:26:50 PM
By that stretch, so too is January 2018.

Interesting when you look at the sustained increase from October 2017 to April 18, you see the impact of the bad flu that was in circulation that year.  I had the flu myself that January and it was bad.

Covid must be a key driver of the substantial increase in April and the key point is that since April, we have had substantial increases in every single month except August.  It fits the trend.  Clearly this trend will continue through January and into February.

Yes.

But we didn't go into hysterics for that outlier in Jan 2018. The world went on like nothing ever happened, no lockdowns, no murmerings of lockdown, no outrage or even faux outrage. Just an acceptance than these type of things happen from time to time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 04:29:26 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 01, 2021, 04:27:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 02:00:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 01, 2021, 01:56:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 01:13:14 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 01, 2021, 12:58:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 12:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2021, 12:06:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:41:06 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:40:07 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 11:34:35 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 11:31:59 AM
Ah so the deaths without lockdown were greater than the deaths with a lockdown. That's a very comparable stat...

We had a vaccine for flu. Didn't stop it causing huge excess deaths and nobody batted an eyelid.

You seem to want to go and engage in mental gymnastics as to why that level of death is acceptable, only if its flu.

I'm glad you can tell me how I think. You've ignored my point.

You're the one ignoring things here and performing mental gymnastics to defend record deaths in flu season.

Why was it ok in Jan 2018?

Who said it was?

Apparently everyone said nothing.. though there is a thread on here about the very same flu outbreak and plenty of news about in at the time, which caused so much death 22,000 (not 50k)

So were or were you not shouting for lockdowns back then?

Were you?

I wasn't, neither am I shouting for them now,

I'm not a hypocrite like some on here.

so 22/50K excess deaths over a 4 to 5 month period you could accept??

You were happy to accept it too.

I didn't hear many speaking out against it. Were you looking for lockdowns back then?

You guys seem very preoccupied with what I think but you are not too forthcoming yourselves?

Would it be down to your hypocrisy by any chance? Tell me what you thought about the winter flu season in 17/18 Johnny? Show me your outrage back then where you looked for lockdowns to save lives?

so keep making the same mistakes, is that what you say?

Do you expect me to keep answering your questions while you rudely ignore mine.

Go back and have a go at answering them or dare you let your contradictions out of the bag?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on February 01, 2021, 04:41:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 04:28:39 PM
Quote from: APM on February 01, 2021, 04:26:50 PM
By that stretch, so too is January 2018.

Interesting when you look at the sustained increase from October 2017 to April 18, you see the impact of the bad flu that was in circulation that year.  I had the flu myself that January and it was bad.

Covid must be a key driver of the substantial increase in April and the key point is that since April, we have had substantial increases in every single month except August.  It fits the trend.  Clearly this trend will continue through January and into February.

Yes.

But we didn't go into hysterics for that outlier in Jan 2018. The world went on like nothing ever happened, no lockdowns, no murmerings of lockdown, no outrage or even faux outrage. Just an acceptance than these type of things happen from time to time.

I'm going to regret responding to this, but:
You can see the difference - it was a WINTER flu in 2018.  Apart from January when the death rate peaked, it was clearly within the boundaries of recent experience.  It came and went.

Covid is different.  Firstly, you can see the death rate clearly increased on a sustained basis, despite rolling lockdowns and social distancing measures.  This is not an argument to remove these pre-cautions (by the way).  What would these figures have been if we hadn't taken those measures?  What would the impact have been on public health services, which are under tremendous stress as it is?

As you say, they were under stress before, but in circumstances of a classic WINTER flu.  Not in the circumstances of an unknown virus which has continued to spread throughout the year and has led to sustained increases in the death rate throughout the autumn. 

Look at the figures.  So much about the 2020 figures is unprecedented in the scale of the figures, sustained nature of the increase and the impact over the course of the year. Covid also unprecedented and is not a winter flu and should not be compared as such.   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 04:59:27 PM
Quote from: APM on February 01, 2021, 04:41:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 04:28:39 PM
Quote from: APM on February 01, 2021, 04:26:50 PM
By that stretch, so too is January 2018.

Interesting when you look at the sustained increase from October 2017 to April 18, you see the impact of the bad flu that was in circulation that year.  I had the flu myself that January and it was bad.

Covid must be a key driver of the substantial increase in April and the key point is that since April, we have had substantial increases in every single month except August.  It fits the trend.  Clearly this trend will continue through January and into February.

Yes.

But we didn't go into hysterics for that outlier in Jan 2018. The world went on like nothing ever happened, no lockdowns, no murmerings of lockdown, no outrage or even faux outrage. Just an acceptance than these type of things happen from time to time.

I'm going to regret responding to this, but:
You can see the difference - it was a WINTER flu in 2018.  Apart from January when the death rate peaked, it was clearly within the boundaries of recent experience.  It came and went.

Covid is different.  Firstly, you can see the death rate clearly increased on a sustained basis, despite rolling lockdowns and social distancing measures.  This is not an argument to remove these pre-cautions (by the way).  What would these figures have been if we hadn't taken those measures?  What would the impact have been on public health services, which are under tremendous stress as it is?

As you say, they were under stress before, but in circumstances of a classic WINTER flu.  Not in the circumstances of an unknown virus which has continued to spread throughout the year and has led to sustained increases in the death rate throughout the autumn. 

Look at the figures.  So much about the 2020 figures is unprecedented in the scale of the figures, sustained nature of the increase and the impact over the course of the year. Covid also unprecedented and is not a winter flu and should not be compared as such.

It comes back every winter. But we don't mind people dying from flu right. Every December, January and February we see more deaths than we do at other stages in the year but hey that's fine - it's only flu they're dying from.

What should matter is people dying, not what they are dying from but this pandemic has put what one ailment ahead of every other one before.

5 people under the age of 40 have been killed by this deadly disease in nearly 12 months. Should we close the roads to save people from road accidents, stop people swimming in the sea to stop them from drowning, stop people cycling on the roads to stop them from being knocked down? We clearly don't give a shit about flu. We wiped out from society according to the experts this year, surely that legislated lockdowns at winter for years to come so if we are being consistent.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 01, 2021, 05:05:15 PM
Is your point that we don't do enough about the flu, is that what you getting at? You're an advocate for getting rid of the flu and we should be doing far more every flu season to prevent people from dying?

Or you just annoyed cause you missed a trip to Benidorm because people are trying to save life's?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tonto1888 on February 01, 2021, 05:08:29 PM
Where is the 5 people under 40 stat from? According to the central statistics office between feb and may 2020 there were 17 deaths in under 44s. Are we to believe that 12 of them were between 40-44 and nobody else in that range has died since may last year?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 01, 2021, 05:10:49 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 01, 2021, 05:08:29 PM
Where is the 5 people under 40 stat from? According to the central statistics office between feb and may 2020 there were 17 deaths in under 44s. Are we to believe that 12 of them were between 40-44 and nobody else in that range has died since may last year?

He generally picks and chooses what country he uses his stats from depending on what been challenged. He flips between "Free State", NI and UK.  He'll likely come back with a report from Outer Mongolia to back himself up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: pbat on February 01, 2021, 05:26:42 PM
https://www.independent.ie/news/three-arrested-and-others-fined-as-group-of-30-people-gather-at-holy-shrine-40033934.html?fbclid=IwAR2cmAWk3vT9Ig0-T9VmVZp9zFlJRHzeMPlHDcWbfbc9PaEm2aLmK0dqzio
What took them to St Brigids shrine, they wernt there to say rosery.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 01, 2021, 05:31:40 PM
Quote from: pbat on February 01, 2021, 05:26:42 PM
https://www.independent.ie/news/three-arrested-and-others-fined-as-group-of-30-people-gather-at-holy-shrine-40033934.html?fbclid=IwAR2cmAWk3vT9Ig0-T9VmVZp9zFlJRHzeMPlHDcWbfbc9PaEm2aLmK0dqzio
What took them to St Brigids shrine, they wernt there to say rosery.

This was my neck of woods and weren't there to pray but some of the anti-lockdown degenerates that follow Gemma O Doherty. The wee one with the crutch, Dee, was one of them in attendance. They wanted to be there cause they shouldn't have been there and interfered with many others who wanted to attend for their own religious reasons. As usual refused several requests to leave and got rightly arrested for failure to do so quoting obscure oaths to Garda and references to the constitution.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: pbat on February 01, 2021, 05:38:04 PM
Lowlifes, I am all for peaceful protesting but when you aim from the start is just to provoke and upset others you deserve all you get. I be remanding them to the Joy for a while to cool of.  One of them is spouting online about 300 Muslims been allowed to attend Croke Park to pray. Not sure when this is supposed to have happened.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 01, 2021, 05:58:12 PM
I think the Muslim prayer thing did happen though I think any normal thinking person wouldn't have an issue.

There is a social media video doing the rounds of a ward in Scotland I think it is. It is actually an uncomfortable watch where "deniers" come in to drag an older family member out of the ward. When they are warned to leave him there as he needs to be in the hospital for treatment the response is that all he needs is vitamin c and d and he will be fine. This is met with the doctor saying there is no medical evidence to support this at all.

The internet and all the misinformation that comes with it creates this kind of situation but it can become very dangerous for people. O'Doherty another illustration of that danger.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on February 01, 2021, 06:20:03 PM
Quote from: Boycey on February 01, 2021, 04:10:33 PM
Covid experts in the North what are my best options for getting regular staff testing. We're a construction company doing essential work on mid Ulster site. Client getting spooked after a couple went down with Covid last week and talking about us implementing checks. What would be most cost effective way?

TIA

As it happens I received this message to on LinkedIn. No clue what they are like; simply passing it on. Let me know if you want the guy's email address by PM

"We are offering rapid Covid-19 test kits for your business.
They are easy to use and give results in 15 minutes with an accuracy of 99.3%.
They are available in boxes of 25 at £187.50 +VAT (£7.50/test).

Please message me or email me on xxxxx@meditech.uk.com for more info."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on February 01, 2021, 06:43:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 04:59:27 PM
Quote from: APM on February 01, 2021, 04:41:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 04:28:39 PM
Quote from: APM on February 01, 2021, 04:26:50 PM
By that stretch, so too is January 2018.

Interesting when you look at the sustained increase from October 2017 to April 18, you see the impact of the bad flu that was in circulation that year.  I had the flu myself that January and it was bad.

Covid must be a key driver of the substantial increase in April and the key point is that since April, we have had substantial increases in every single month except August.  It fits the trend.  Clearly this trend will continue through January and into February.

Yes.

But we didn't go into hysterics for that outlier in Jan 2018. The world went on like nothing ever happened, no lockdowns, no murmerings of lockdown, no outrage or even faux outrage. Just an acceptance than these type of things happen from time to time.

I'm going to regret responding to this, but:
You can see the difference - it was a WINTER flu in 2018.  Apart from January when the death rate peaked, it was clearly within the boundaries of recent experience.  It came and went.

Covid is different.  Firstly, you can see the death rate clearly increased on a sustained basis, despite rolling lockdowns and social distancing measures.  This is not an argument to remove these pre-cautions (by the way).  What would these figures have been if we hadn't taken those measures?  What would the impact have been on public health services, which are under tremendous stress as it is?

As you say, they were under stress before, but in circumstances of a classic WINTER flu.  Not in the circumstances of an unknown virus which has continued to spread throughout the year and has led to sustained increases in the death rate throughout the autumn. 

Look at the figures.  So much about the 2020 figures is unprecedented in the scale of the figures, sustained nature of the increase and the impact over the course of the year. Covid also unprecedented and is not a winter flu and should not be compared as such.

It comes back every winter. But we don't mind people dying from flu right. Every December, January and February we see more deaths than we do at other stages in the year but hey that's fine - it's only flu they're dying from.

What should matter is people dying, not what they are dying from but this pandemic has put what one ailment ahead of every other one before.

5 people under the age of 40 have been killed by this deadly disease in nearly 12 months. Should we close the roads to save people from road accidents, stop people swimming in the sea to stop them from drowning, stop people cycling on the roads to stop them from being knocked down? We clearly don't give a shit about flu. We wiped out from society according to the experts this year, surely that legislated lockdowns at winter for years to come so if we are being consistent.

I'm not impressed by your arguments which are all over the place. 

The flu does matter and every year the government does a major campaign to promote the flu vaccine.  Resources are managed in anticipation of flu season.  However, the impact of classic winter flu versus Covid is clearly different, in terms of death rates.  Also in terms of the severity of illness, the ease of spread, the long term impact (long covid) and the fact that it clearly remains active in the population throughout the year.  Therefore to manage the risk of Covid, which is greater in terms of public health systems and individual outcomes, stronger measures must be taken. 

We don't close the roads to protect people from road accidents.  But the government has legislate for speed limits, seatbelts, drink driving and a highway code, etc (and there are nutters that object to tough drink driving limits, so you are in good company).  These are all about managing risks, to get the death rate on our roads down to lower levels - they peaked in the 1970s I think. The drink driving anaolgy is a good one, because when you drive like a lunatic or with drink taken, you put others' lives at risk also. 

Lifeguards are stationed at beaches to reduce the risk of drowning and signage is used to discourage people from swimming to reduce risk. Once again, managing risk. Again, some people choose to ignore warnings, putting themselves and others (rescuers) in danger. 

Social distancing measures and masks are just another way of managing risk, albeit of a pandemic, the like of which no one in living memory has ever experienced.  You seem to think that these steps were taken lightly.  The UK government had to be dragged kicking and screaming to implement these measures. The Dublin government reacted more readily, but at times have been slow to follow NPHET.  Why? Because these measures are unprecedented, but with good cause.   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 01, 2021, 06:55:35 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on February 01, 2021, 06:20:03 PM
They are easy to use and give results in 15 minutes with an accuracy of 99.3%.

I wonder who tested the accuracy rate?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 07:07:48 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 01, 2021, 05:08:29 PM
Where is the 5 people under 40 stat from? According to the central statistics office between feb and may 2020 there were 17 deaths in under 44s. Are we to believe that 12 of them were between 40-44 and nobody else in that range has died since may last year?

NISRA.

1 death in the 0-19 age bracket. 4 deaths in the 20-39 age bracket.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 01, 2021, 10:07:34 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 01, 2021, 05:08:29 PM
Where is the 5 people under 40 stat from? According to the central statistics office between feb and may 2020 there were 17 deaths in under 44s. Are we to believe that 12 of them were between 40-44 and nobody else in that range has died since may last year?

According to NISRA up to the week ended Jan 21st 16 people between the age of 15-44 have died of Covid in NI and since the middle of March last year 15% of all deaths in NI were due to Covid.

I don't know what the stats are for the numbers who died from the flu in the south or NI before anyone asks

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 01, 2021, 10:16:17 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 01, 2021, 10:07:34 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 01, 2021, 05:08:29 PM
Where is the 5 people under 40 stat from? According to the central statistics office between feb and may 2020 there were 17 deaths in under 44s. Are we to believe that 12 of them were between 40-44 and nobody else in that range has died since may last year?

According to NISRA up to the week ended Jan 21st 16 people between the age of 15-44 have died of Covid in NI and since the middle of March last year 15% of all deaths in NI were due to Covid.

I don't know what the stats are for the numbers who died from the flu in the south or NI before anyone asks

5 people under the age of 40 have died from Covid according to NISRA figures up to today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on February 01, 2021, 11:06:48 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on February 01, 2021, 06:20:03 PM
Quote from: Boycey on February 01, 2021, 04:10:33 PM
Covid experts in the North what are my best options for getting regular staff testing. We're a construction company doing essential work on mid Ulster site. Client getting spooked after a couple went down with Covid last week and talking about us implementing checks. What would be most cost effective way?

TIA

As it happens I received this message to on LinkedIn. No clue what they are like; simply passing it on. Let me know if you want the guy's email address by PM

"We are offering rapid Covid-19 test kits for your business.
They are easy to use and give results in 15 minutes with an accuracy of 99.3%.
They are available in boxes of 25 at £187.50 +VAT (£7.50/test).

Please message me or email me on xxxxx@meditech.uk.com for more info."
If these tests are 'Lateral Flow', they are at best 50% accurate. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 01, 2021, 11:28:14 PM
Quote from: restorepride on February 01, 2021, 11:06:48 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on February 01, 2021, 06:20:03 PM
Quote from: Boycey on February 01, 2021, 04:10:33 PM
Covid experts in the North what are my best options for getting regular staff testing. We're a construction company doing essential work on mid Ulster site. Client getting spooked after a couple went down with Covid last week and talking about us implementing checks. What would be most cost effective way?

TIA

As it happens I received this message to on LinkedIn. No clue what they are like; simply passing it on. Let me know if you want the guy's email address by PM

"We are offering rapid Covid-19 test kits for your business.
They are easy to use and give results in 15 minutes with an accuracy of 99.3%.
They are available in boxes of 25 at £187.50 +VAT (£7.50/test).

Please message me or email me on xxxxx@meditech.uk.com for more info."
If these tests are 'Lateral Flow', they are at best 50% accurate.
76.8% according to PHE.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on February 01, 2021, 11:54:38 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 01, 2021, 11:28:14 PM
Quote from: restorepride on February 01, 2021, 11:06:48 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on February 01, 2021, 06:20:03 PM
Quote from: Boycey on February 01, 2021, 04:10:33 PM
Covid experts in the North what are my best options for getting regular staff testing. We're a construction company doing essential work on mid Ulster site. Client getting spooked after a couple went down with Covid last week and talking about us implementing checks. What would be most cost effective way?

TIA

As it happens I received this message to on LinkedIn. No clue what they are like; simply passing it on. Let me know if you want the guy's email address by PM

"We are offering rapid Covid-19 test kits for your business.
They are easy to use and give results in 15 minutes with an accuracy of 99.3%.
They are available in boxes of 25 at £187.50 +VAT (£7.50/test).

Please message me or email me on xxxxx@meditech.uk.com for more info."
If these tests are 'Lateral Flow', they are at best 50% accurate.
76.8% according to PHE.
Afraid not.  I checked at my first vaccination today. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 02, 2021, 01:36:28 PM
does anyone have any data on what ages /conditions etc. the people who required hospitalisation in the vaccine trials were? resulting in the % effectiveness.

Also, is there a chinese vaccine or how does chinese pharmaceutical industry compare to their european and American counterparts?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on February 02, 2021, 03:19:23 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 02, 2021, 01:36:28 PM
is there a chinese vaccine or how does chinese pharmaceutical industry compare to their european and American counterparts?
www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-china-55212787
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 02, 2021, 03:21:08 PM
It's state owned so I would imagine you won't see a whole pile from China.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 02, 2021, 06:14:28 PM
It seems very much so that the vaccine rollout in the uk is having a very positive affect
Not only massive drop in hospitals admissions but also now saying the Oxford vaccine is shown to have a substantial affect on transmission67%
This is a statement coming from Oxford themselves
With cases dropping let's look to the future
Still 16 days until executive announce any movement on March 5
If things continue to drop I would say by March 5th we will have single digits cases. I would imagine in 2 weeks we may have our first 2 digits day in almost 6 months
Does anyone think it maybe a seasonal flu
It's hard to dismiss that all countries cases are dropping including America and South Africa
Maybe just maybe it's a seasonal thing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 06:17:17 PM
Over 50% of the deaths in the FS were in nursing homes it was confirmed today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on February 02, 2021, 06:58:41 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 02, 2021, 06:14:28 PM
It seems very much so that the vaccine rollout in the uk is having a very positive affect
Not only massive drop in hospitals admissions but also now saying the Oxford vaccine is shown to have a substantial affect on transmission67%
This is a statement coming from Oxford themselves
With cases dropping let's look to the future
Still 16 days until executive announce any movement on March 5
If things continue to drop I would say by March 5th we will have single digits cases. I would imagine in 2 weeks we may have our first 2 digits day in almost 6 months
Does anyone think it maybe a seasonal flu
It's hard to dismiss that all countries cases are dropping including America and South Africa
Maybe just maybe it's a seasonal thing

99% of transmission is indoors, from that point of view it's seasonal. In winter people spend much more time indoors. If you're indoors a lot with other people try to make sure there are plenty of windows open because ventilation is very important.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on February 02, 2021, 06:59:39 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 02, 2021, 06:14:28 PM
It seems very much so that the vaccine rollout in the uk is having a very positive affect
Not only massive drop in hospitals admissions but also now saying the Oxford vaccine is shown to have a substantial affect on transmission67%
This is a statement coming from Oxford themselves
With cases dropping let's look to the future
Still 16 days until executive announce any movement on March 5
If things continue to drop I would say by March 5th we will have single digits cases. I would imagine in 2 weeks we may have our first 2 digits day in almost 6 months
Does anyone think it maybe a seasonal flu
It's hard to dismiss that all countries cases are dropping including America and South Africa
Maybe just maybe it's a seasonal thing

Please tell me this is some sort of typo?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 07:01:29 PM
50% of Free State deaths in the nursing homes.

Would anyone care to tell me what the life expectancy is for a patient that enters a nursing home? I would suspect quite a sizable amount would be doing well to see a year out in any case.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 02, 2021, 07:20:00 PM
Cases under 1,000 today in the south for the first time in a long time. It's not a great achievement, but it's progress.

Unfortunately there were 101 deaths, the youngest of which was only 19.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on February 02, 2021, 07:21:34 PM
Here is a snapshot of San Mateo county where I live in California 760k population been under mask mandate since June no bars open since March  mostly outdoor dining  on and off.
Deaths
0-9. 0
10-19. 0
20-29.  0
30-39.   1
40-49.   10
50-59.   21
60-69.   55
70-79.   77
80-89.   125
90+.     106
Total deaths 395.  The bottom line is get everyone over 60 vaccinated ASAP and most of this goes away
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 07:22:12 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 02, 2021, 07:20:00 PM
Cases under 1,000 today in the south for the first time in a long time. It's not a great achievement, but it's progress.

Unfortunately there were 101 deaths, the youngest of which was only 19.

Was the 19 year old one the 33% who picked it up in hospital I'd like to know.

Absolutely disgraceful if so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on February 02, 2021, 07:43:16 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 02, 2021, 07:20:00 PM
Cases under 1,000 today in the south for the first time in a long time. It's not a great achievement, but it's progress.

Unfortunately there were 101 deaths, the youngest of which was only 19.
Was 928 cases last Tuesday.

Deaths reported in a simliar way the last few weeks.

Sunday 17/1 - 13
Monday 18/1 - 8
Tuesday 19/1 - 93

Total 114


Sunday 24/1 - 23
Monday 25/1 - 7
Tuesday 26/1 - 90

Total 120

Sunday 31/1 - 15
Monday 1/2 - 10
Tuesday 2/2 - 101

Total 126
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 02, 2021, 07:51:58 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 02, 2021, 07:43:16 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 02, 2021, 07:20:00 PM
Cases under 1,000 today in the south for the first time in a long time. It's not a great achievement, but it's progress.

Unfortunately there were 101 deaths, the youngest of which was only 19.
Was 928 cases last Tuesday.

Deaths reported in a simliar way the last few weeks.

Sunday 17/1 - 13
Monday 18/1 - 8
Tuesday 19/1 - 93

Total 114


Sunday 24/1 - 23
Monday 25/1 - 7
Tuesday 26/1 - 90

Total 120

Sunday 31/1 - 15
Monday 1/2 - 10
Tuesday 2/2 - 101

Total 126
I missed that. You would think the increase in deaths is due to the big increase in hospitalisation numbers over the last few weeks. Hopefully the case numbers continue to trend downwards over the next few weeks as vaccinations are delivered.

I read at the weekend that the Gardai had to be called to Wexford hospital last week as patients who had been isolated in the wards were leaving the wards and going outside for cigarettes. When you read stories like that and think of the pressure hospital staff are under you wonder do these morons have any concern for anyone but themselves
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 02, 2021, 08:06:46 PM

https://www.ft.com/content/595e4958-55e7-45ae-87ed-faa7f08c1c98

Cambridge university scientists have run preliminary laboratory tests on B.1.1.7 virus with the added mutation. They found that antibodies extracted from the blood of people who had received the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine were only one-tenth as effective at neutralising the virus that had the E484K mutation as they were at neutralising the virus that did not have the mutation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on February 02, 2021, 08:21:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 07:01:29 PM
50% of Free State deaths in the nursing homes.

Would anyone care to tell me what the life expectancy is for a patient that enters a nursing home? I would suspect quite a sizable amount would be doing well to see a year out in any case.

Not sure about the south but in the UK (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/lifeexpectancies/bulletins/nationallifetablesunitedkingdom/2017to2019), a 75 year old can expect to live for another 12-13 years on average. An 85 year old can expect to live for another 6-7 years, again, on average.

Even allowing for nursing home residents being in poorer health than the general population, that's still a lot of years to write off just so that everyone else can get back down to the shops.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 08:29:58 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on February 02, 2021, 08:21:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 07:01:29 PM
50% of Free State deaths in the nursing homes.

Would anyone care to tell me what the life expectancy is for a patient that enters a nursing home? I would suspect quite a sizable amount would be doing well to see a year out in any case.

Not sure about the south but in the UK (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/lifeexpectancies/bulletins/nationallifetablesunitedkingdom/2017to2019), a 75 year old can expect to live for another 12-13 years on average. An 85 year old can expect to live for another 6-7 years, again, on average.

Even allowing for nursing home residents being in poorer health than the general population, that's still a lot of years to write off just so that everyone else can get back down to the shops.

Thanks for answering a different question than the one I asked.

The question I asked was:

What is the average life expectancy for a person once they enter a nursing home?

This would tend to point to it being 12 months:

https://www.bgs.org.uk/resources/end-of-life-care-in-frailty-care-homes

The average life expectancy in UK care homes is 24 months for care homes without nursing and 12 months for care homes with nursing. This belies a much more complex picture, where some residents enter a home with one or more rapidly deteriorating medical conditions. Many of this group die shortly after admission, while another group of residents live in care homes for much longer. It follows that all care home residents should be considered for end of life care, but it should not be taken for granted that all will need it straight away.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 08:30:56 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 02, 2021, 07:51:58 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 02, 2021, 07:43:16 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 02, 2021, 07:20:00 PM
Cases under 1,000 today in the south for the first time in a long time. It's not a great achievement, but it's progress.

Unfortunately there were 101 deaths, the youngest of which was only 19.
Was 928 cases last Tuesday.

Deaths reported in a simliar way the last few weeks.

Sunday 17/1 - 13
Monday 18/1 - 8
Tuesday 19/1 - 93

Total 114


Sunday 24/1 - 23
Monday 25/1 - 7
Tuesday 26/1 - 90

Total 120

Sunday 31/1 - 15
Monday 1/2 - 10
Tuesday 2/2 - 101

Total 126
I missed that. You would think the increase in deaths is due to the big increase in hospitalisation numbers over the last few weeks. Hopefully the case numbers continue to trend downwards over the next few weeks as vaccinations are delivered.

I read at the weekend that the Gardai had to be called to Wexford hospital last week as patients who had been isolated in the wards were leaving the wards and going outside for cigarettes. When you read stories like that and think of the pressure hospital staff are under you wonder do these morons have any concern for anyone but themselves

It's to do with outbreaks in nursing homes, that was reported during the week that most cases have been in the over 80s age group. But hey ignore the data.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on February 02, 2021, 09:11:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 08:29:58 PM

Thanks for answering a different question than the one I asked.

The question I asked was:

What is the average life expectancy for a person once they enter a nursing home?

This would tend to point to it being 12 months:

https://www.bgs.org.uk/resources/end-of-life-care-in-frailty-care-homes

The average life expectancy in UK care homes is 24 months for care homes without nursing and 12 months for care homes with nursing. This belies a much more complex picture, where some residents enter a home with one or more rapidly deteriorating medical conditions. Many of this group die shortly after admission, while another group of residents live in care homes for much longer. It follows that all care home residents should be considered for end of life care, but it should not be taken for granted that all will need it straight away.

The figures I offered were average life expectancy. For the general population, though, as the ONS does not provide statistics on care home residents. There are various estimates out there on that - here's one (https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/default/files/2017-11/Enhanced_health_care_homes_Kings_Fund_December_2017.pdf) that has it at up to 30 months for an 85 year old entering care; here's one (https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2017-09-05/8937) that has the average stay at 26 months. Nothing very definitive.

Life expectancy is longer at advanced ages than most realise, and lost years are lost years regardless of when they occur. That's the point. It's not a healthy society that considers the option of sacrificing the elderly and vulnerable so that the rest are not inconvenienced.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 02, 2021, 09:20:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 02, 2021, 08:06:46 PM

https://www.ft.com/content/595e4958-55e7-45ae-87ed-faa7f08c1c98

Cambridge university scientists have run preliminary laboratory tests on B.1.1.7 virus with the added mutation. They found that antibodies extracted from the blood of people who had received the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine were only one-tenth as effective at neutralising the virus that had the E484K mutation as they were at neutralising the virus that did not have the mutation.

Dunno if I trust the Financial Times' reporting on it - but anyway.

They've f**ked around with half measures for so long that vaccine escape is almost inevitable due to the large pool of infected people offering a great breeding ground for mutations. Add in the stupid that won't get the vaccination and its even worse.


Reading about Sputnik today - the Russian vaccination scheme may end up being best of all as it uses two slight variants of vaccine, attacking along slightly different vectors and hopefully allowing greater persistence in the face of mutation. Russian scientists and engineers were always a very good mix of smart and pragmatic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on February 02, 2021, 09:11:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 08:29:58 PM

Thanks for answering a different question than the one I asked.

The question I asked was:

What is the average life expectancy for a person once they enter a nursing home?

This would tend to point to it being 12 months:

https://www.bgs.org.uk/resources/end-of-life-care-in-frailty-care-homes

The average life expectancy in UK care homes is 24 months for care homes without nursing and 12 months for care homes with nursing. This belies a much more complex picture, where some residents enter a home with one or more rapidly deteriorating medical conditions. Many of this group die shortly after admission, while another group of residents live in care homes for much longer. It follows that all care home residents should be considered for end of life care, but it should not be taken for granted that all will need it straight away.

The figures I offered were average life expectancy. For the general population, though, as the ONS does not provide statistics on care home residents. There are various estimates out there on that - here's one (https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/default/files/2017-11/Enhanced_health_care_homes_Kings_Fund_December_2017.pdf) that has it at up to 30 months for an 85 year old entering care; here's one (https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2017-09-05/8937) that has the average stay at 26 months. Nothing very definitive.

Life expectancy is longer at advanced ages than most realise, and lost years are lost years regardless of when they occur. That's the point. It's not a healthy society that considers the option of sacrificing the elderly and vulnerable so that the rest are not inconvenienced.

Yeah, I asked a question and you went and answered one I didn't ask.

I was just clarifying that your answer has zero to do with the question I posed.

The AVERAGE life expectancy for patients admitted to nursing homes is 12 months according to the report I put up there. In the south they are reporting that half of their total deaths are nursing home patients, people who probably have an average life expectancy of 12 months.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on February 02, 2021, 10:24:20 PM
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-02-02-oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-shows-sustained-protection-76-during-3-month-interval

Including - Analyses of PCR positive swabs in UK population suggests vaccine may have substantial effect on transmission of the virus with 67% reduction in positive swabs among those vaccinated
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on February 02, 2021, 11:17:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:23:45 PM
Yeah, I asked a question and you went and answered one I didn't ask.

I was just clarifying that your answer has zero to do with the question I posed.
Not sure what you think you read, but if you return to it you'll see that I never offered an answer. I offered information from published figures that could be used to inform a best estimate.

Your question cannot be answered definitively because the figures you want are not published, therefore estimations have to be made from available information.

Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:23:45 PM
The AVERAGE life expectancy for patients admitted to nursing homes is 12 months according to the report I put up there.
And other reports suggest differently, because the figures are not published and each report is estimating and extrapolating from various disparate sources.

Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:23:45 PMIn the south they are reporting that half of their total deaths are nursing home patients, people who probably have an average life expectancy of 12 months.

And? Regardless of whether the answer to your original question is 12 months or 12 years, where does this train of thought lead?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 09:32:03 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on February 02, 2021, 11:17:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:23:45 PM
Yeah, I asked a question and you went and answered one I didn't ask.

I was just clarifying that your answer has zero to do with the question I posed.
Not sure what you think you read, but if you return to it you'll see that I never offered an answer. I offered information from published figures that could be used to inform a best estimate.

Your question cannot be answered definitively because the figures you want are not published, therefore estimations have to be made from available information.

Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:23:45 PM
The AVERAGE life expectancy for patients admitted to nursing homes is 12 months according to the report I put up there.
And other reports suggest differently, because the figures are not published and each report is estimating and extrapolating from various disparate sources.

Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 09:23:45 PMIn the south they are reporting that half of their total deaths are nursing home patients, people who probably have an average life expectancy of 12 months.

And? Regardless of whether the answer to your original question is 12 months or 12 years, where does this train of thought lead?

The question I asked was what was the average life expectancy from when a person enters a nursing home. The question is quite clear, there is little ambiguity in it. I went and found out the answer too, linked in the report - its 12 months. You have posted a series of long meandering posts that cover anything but the question asked.

Average = cumulative total divided by number of figures
Life expectancy = how long they will live for
When they go into the nursing home = as it says

Average life expectancy when they go into a nursing home.

I didn't ask for how long or how short they could live for, I asked for the average life expectancy. Maybe try and read more carefully next time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 09:34:13 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on February 02, 2021, 11:17:57 PM


And? Regardless of whether the answer to your original question is 12 months or 12 years, where does this train of thought lead?

People in nursing homes on average die within 12 months.

I think it's extremely disingenuous to be crediting all these deaths to Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 03, 2021, 09:51:37 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on February 02, 2021, 09:11:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 02, 2021, 08:29:58 PM

Thanks for answering a different question than the one I asked.

The question I asked was:

What is the average life expectancy for a person once they enter a nursing home?

This would tend to point to it being 12 months:

https://www.bgs.org.uk/resources/end-of-life-care-in-frailty-care-homes

The average life expectancy in UK care homes is 24 months for care homes without nursing and 12 months for care homes with nursing. This belies a much more complex picture, where some residents enter a home with one or more rapidly deteriorating medical conditions. Many of this group die shortly after admission, while another group of residents live in care homes for much longer. It follows that all care home residents should be considered for end of life care, but it should not be taken for granted that all will need it straight away.

The figures I offered were average life expectancy. For the general population, though, as the ONS does not provide statistics on care home residents. There are various estimates out there on that - here's one (https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/default/files/2017-11/Enhanced_health_care_homes_Kings_Fund_December_2017.pdf) that has it at up to 30 months for an 85 year old entering care; here's one (https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2017-09-05/8937) that has the average stay at 26 months. Nothing very definitive.

Life expectancy is longer at advanced ages than most realise, and lost years are lost years regardless of when they occur. That's the point. It's not a healthy society that considers the option of sacrificing the elderly and vulnerable so that the rest are not inconvenienced.

For what it's worth there is very little research into life expectancy in nursing homes so it's impossible to give an accurate answer. As you point out just because an individual is in a nursing home their life shouldn't be treated as an inconvenience for people annoyed at the lockdown and the government restrictions
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 03, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on February 03, 2021, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.
What they're saying is the data is backing the gap between doses in the AstraZeneca jab.  They are saying that the wait of 12 weeks is working with that jab. 
GetOverTheBar has misread what the article is saying. It's not that the anitibodies that the AstraZeneca jab lasts JUST 3 months, it's that it lasts the three months between the jabs.  They are taking a gamble on leaving a 12 week gap between Pfizer jabs.  There is no data to back that decision.
The AstraZeneca news is really encouraging in fact.  It will bring the pandemic to an end much quicker.  There is one massive caveat to it though, the variants.  The race is on to get this vaccine campaign completed before they become the dominant strain.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:35:46 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 03, 2021, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.
What they're saying is the data is backing the gap between doses in the AstraZeneca jab.  They are saying that the wait of 12 weeks is working with that jab. 
GetOverTheBar has misread what the article is saying. It's not that the anitibodies that the AstraZeneca jab lasts JUST 3 months, it's that it lasts the three months between the jabs.  They are taking a gamble on leaving a 12 week gap between Pfizer jabs.  There is no data to back that decision.
The AstraZeneca news is really encouraging in fact.  It will bring the pandemic to an end much quicker.  There is one massive caveat to it though, the variants.  The race is on to get this vaccine campaign completed before they become the dominant strain.

Covid is something that's here to stay, it's something that will likely come around seasonally like flu, it will kill people every year but we will just get on with things - much like we do with flu currently.

Do people here think we are going to completely eradicate Covid forever over the next year or so?

Or do they think, as I do, that it's here for the rest of our lives and much like flu will cause excess deaths every winter, vaccines or no vaccines. We'll get better at treating it but it's still going to kill people but 90% odd of those will be people with low life expectancies anyway.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 03, 2021, 10:42:07 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 03, 2021, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.
What they're saying is the data is backing the gap between doses in the AstraZeneca jab.  They are saying that the wait of 12 weeks is working with that jab. 
GetOverTheBar has misread what the article is saying. It's not that the anitibodies that the AstraZeneca jab lasts JUST 3 months, it's that it lasts the three months between the jabs.  They are taking a gamble on leaving a 12 week gap between Pfizer jabs.  There is no data to back that decision.
The AstraZeneca news is really encouraging in fact.  It will bring the pandemic to an end much quicker.  There is one massive caveat to it though, the variants.  The race is on to get this vaccine campaign completed before they become the dominant strain.

Decent summary. The Pfizer gap obviously a risk and also that the virus mutates against the limited protection of the Astra jab, while giving a solid level of protection, the 12 week gap does increase the threshold for virus evolving around the protections in place.

Fingers crossed it doesn't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:35:46 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 03, 2021, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.
What they're saying is the data is backing the gap between doses in the AstraZeneca jab.  They are saying that the wait of 12 weeks is working with that jab. 
GetOverTheBar has misread what the article is saying. It's not that the anitibodies that the AstraZeneca jab lasts JUST 3 months, it's that it lasts the three months between the jabs.  They are taking a gamble on leaving a 12 week gap between Pfizer jabs.  There is no data to back that decision.
The AstraZeneca news is really encouraging in fact.  It will bring the pandemic to an end much quicker.  There is one massive caveat to it though, the variants.  The race is on to get this vaccine campaign completed before they become the dominant strain.

Covid is something that's here to stay, it's something that will likely come around seasonally like flu, it will kill people every year but we will just get on with things - much like we do with flu currently.

Do people here think we are going to completely eradicate Covid forever over the next year or so?

Or do they think, as I do, that it's here for the rest of our lives and much like flu will cause excess deaths every winter, vaccines or no vaccines. We'll get better at treating it but it's still going to kill people but 90% odd of those will be people with low life expectancies anyway.

How long is a season with covid? What was the death rate around April and May? September and October?  have you figures to show that this will be just a winter thing?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on February 03, 2021, 11:27:32 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.
Erm...
Covid-19: Study showing Oxford vaccine slows virus spread 'superb' - Hancock
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55913913

" The study by the University of Oxford, where the vaccine was developed, measured the impact on transmission by testing for asymptomatic infections, swabbing participants every week in addition to recording when anyone fell ill with Covid-19.

As well as showing an effect on transmission, the study found the vaccine offered 76% effective protection from a single dose for three months.

With no fall in protection during the three-month period, the researchers said the results supported gaps between first and second doses of between four and 12 weeks.

The effectiveness of the vaccine increased with a longer gap of 12 weeks before the booster jab.

When the second dose is given, the study found the level of protection from the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine rises to 82%.

In other developments:

One of the world's largest follow-up Covid studies found almost 90% of people who tested positive for Covid had protective antibodies against the virus six months after their initial infection"

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:35:46 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 03, 2021, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.
What they're saying is the data is backing the gap between doses in the AstraZeneca jab.  They are saying that the wait of 12 weeks is working with that jab. 
GetOverTheBar has misread what the article is saying. It's not that the anitibodies that the AstraZeneca jab lasts JUST 3 months, it's that it lasts the three months between the jabs.  They are taking a gamble on leaving a 12 week gap between Pfizer jabs.  There is no data to back that decision.
The AstraZeneca news is really encouraging in fact.  It will bring the pandemic to an end much quicker.  There is one massive caveat to it though, the variants.  The race is on to get this vaccine campaign completed before they become the dominant strain.

Covid is something that's here to stay, it's something that will likely come around seasonally like flu, it will kill people every year but we will just get on with things - much like we do with flu currently.

Do people here think we are going to completely eradicate Covid forever over the next year or so?

Or do they think, as I do, that it's here for the rest of our lives and much like flu will cause excess deaths every winter, vaccines or no vaccines. We'll get better at treating it but it's still going to kill people but 90% odd of those will be people with low life expectancies anyway.

How long is a season with covid? What was the death rate around April and May? September and October?  have you figures to show that this will be just a winter thing?

I asked a question an you responded without answering, only to ask a number of questions.

Do you think we are going to eradicate Covid or do you think it is here to stay? Simple question for you to state which way you think it will go.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:32:40 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:35:46 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 03, 2021, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.
What they're saying is the data is backing the gap between doses in the AstraZeneca jab.  They are saying that the wait of 12 weeks is working with that jab. 
GetOverTheBar has misread what the article is saying. It's not that the anitibodies that the AstraZeneca jab lasts JUST 3 months, it's that it lasts the three months between the jabs.  They are taking a gamble on leaving a 12 week gap between Pfizer jabs.  There is no data to back that decision.
The AstraZeneca news is really encouraging in fact.  It will bring the pandemic to an end much quicker.  There is one massive caveat to it though, the variants.  The race is on to get this vaccine campaign completed before they become the dominant strain.

Covid is something that's here to stay, it's something that will likely come around seasonally like flu, it will kill people every year but we will just get on with things - much like we do with flu currently.

Do people here think we are going to completely eradicate Covid forever over the next year or so?

Or do they think, as I do, that it's here for the rest of our lives and much like flu will cause excess deaths every winter, vaccines or no vaccines. We'll get better at treating it but it's still going to kill people but 90% odd of those will be people with low life expectancies anyway.

How long is a season with covid? What was the death rate around April and May? September and October?  have you figures to show that this will be just a winter thing?

I asked a question an you responded without answering, only to ask a number of questions.

Do you think we are going to eradicate Covid or do you think it is here to stay? Simple question for you to state which way you think it will go.

When/where did you ask me a question?

But if this helps... Covid has been around in many different forms for years, it's not going away but we have managed to adopt, that's what the world is currently doing, finding vaccines lowering cases and fatalities.

Now, answer mine
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 03, 2021, 11:41:50 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 03, 2021, 11:27:32 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.
Erm...
Covid-19: Study showing Oxford vaccine slows virus spread 'superb' - Hancock
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55913913

" The study by the University of Oxford, where the vaccine was developed, measured the impact on transmission by testing for asymptomatic infections, swabbing participants every week in addition to recording when anyone fell ill with Covid-19.

As well as showing an effect on transmission, the study found the vaccine offered 76% effective protection from a single dose for three months.

With no fall in protection during the three-month period, the researchers said the results supported gaps between first and second doses of between four and 12 weeks.

The effectiveness of the vaccine increased with a longer gap of 12 weeks before the booster jab.

When the second dose is given, the study found the level of protection from the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine rises to 82%.

In other developments:

One of the world's largest follow-up Covid studies found almost 90% of people who tested positive for Covid had protective antibodies against the virus six months after their initial infection"

Like said above, that's very positive.

And trying not to be doom but this has moved so fast, the obvious concern would be Pfizer and new variants.

Some doctors in UK have already expressed concern at positivity rates for people who between 1st and 2nd jabs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:52:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:32:40 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:35:46 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 03, 2021, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.
What they're saying is the data is backing the gap between doses in the AstraZeneca jab.  They are saying that the wait of 12 weeks is working with that jab. 
GetOverTheBar has misread what the article is saying. It's not that the anitibodies that the AstraZeneca jab lasts JUST 3 months, it's that it lasts the three months between the jabs.  They are taking a gamble on leaving a 12 week gap between Pfizer jabs.  There is no data to back that decision.
The AstraZeneca news is really encouraging in fact.  It will bring the pandemic to an end much quicker.  There is one massive caveat to it though, the variants.  The race is on to get this vaccine campaign completed before they become the dominant strain.

Covid is something that's here to stay, it's something that will likely come around seasonally like flu, it will kill people every year but we will just get on with things - much like we do with flu currently.

Do people here think we are going to completely eradicate Covid forever over the next year or so?

Or do they think, as I do, that it's here for the rest of our lives and much like flu will cause excess deaths every winter, vaccines or no vaccines. We'll get better at treating it but it's still going to kill people but 90% odd of those will be people with low life expectancies anyway.

How long is a season with covid? What was the death rate around April and May? September and October?  have you figures to show that this will be just a winter thing?

I asked a question an you responded without answering, only to ask a number of questions.

Do you think we are going to eradicate Covid or do you think it is here to stay? Simple question for you to state which way you think it will go.

When/where did you ask me a question?

But if this helps... Covid has been around in many different forms for years, it's not going away but we have managed to adopt, that's what the world is currently doing, finding vaccines lowering cases and fatalities.

Now, answer mine

I asked a question in the post you responded to. You responed with a question. Again I have asked you to answer the question and you have given a vague, ambiguous answer as per usual.

It's a pretty simple question so try and answer it simply rather than sitting on the fence.

Do you think we will be able to eradicate Covid with lockdown measures and a vaccine? Yes or no.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:59:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:52:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:32:40 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:35:46 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 03, 2021, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.
What they're saying is the data is backing the gap between doses in the AstraZeneca jab.  They are saying that the wait of 12 weeks is working with that jab. 
GetOverTheBar has misread what the article is saying. It's not that the anitibodies that the AstraZeneca jab lasts JUST 3 months, it's that it lasts the three months between the jabs.  They are taking a gamble on leaving a 12 week gap between Pfizer jabs.  There is no data to back that decision.
The AstraZeneca news is really encouraging in fact.  It will bring the pandemic to an end much quicker.  There is one massive caveat to it though, the variants.  The race is on to get this vaccine campaign completed before they become the dominant strain.

Covid is something that's here to stay, it's something that will likely come around seasonally like flu, it will kill people every year but we will just get on with things - much like we do with flu currently.

Do people here think we are going to completely eradicate Covid forever over the next year or so?

Or do they think, as I do, that it's here for the rest of our lives and much like flu will cause excess deaths every winter, vaccines or no vaccines. We'll get better at treating it but it's still going to kill people but 90% odd of those will be people with low life expectancies anyway.

How long is a season with covid? What was the death rate around April and May? September and October?  have you figures to show that this will be just a winter thing?

I asked a question an you responded without answering, only to ask a number of questions.

Do you think we are going to eradicate Covid or do you think it is here to stay? Simple question for you to state which way you think it will go.

When/where did you ask me a question?

But if this helps... Covid has been around in many different forms for years, it's not going away but we have managed to adopt, that's what the world is currently doing, finding vaccines lowering cases and fatalities.

Now, answer mine

I asked a question in the post you responded to. You responed with a question. Again I have asked you to answer the question and you have given a vague, ambiguous answer as per usual.

It's a pretty simple question so try and answer it simply rather than sitting on the fence.

Do you think we will be able to eradicate Covid with lockdown measures and a vaccine? Yes or no.

I answered it, what's the issue? Covid will be with us and has been with us for years, and we will adopt to it

Now can you answer mine? or you can just avoid it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:07:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:59:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:52:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:32:40 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:35:46 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 03, 2021, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.
What they're saying is the data is backing the gap between doses in the AstraZeneca jab.  They are saying that the wait of 12 weeks is working with that jab. 
GetOverTheBar has misread what the article is saying. It's not that the anitibodies that the AstraZeneca jab lasts JUST 3 months, it's that it lasts the three months between the jabs.  They are taking a gamble on leaving a 12 week gap between Pfizer jabs.  There is no data to back that decision.
The AstraZeneca news is really encouraging in fact.  It will bring the pandemic to an end much quicker.  There is one massive caveat to it though, the variants.  The race is on to get this vaccine campaign completed before they become the dominant strain.

Covid is something that's here to stay, it's something that will likely come around seasonally like flu, it will kill people every year but we will just get on with things - much like we do with flu currently.

Do people here think we are going to completely eradicate Covid forever over the next year or so?

Or do they think, as I do, that it's here for the rest of our lives and much like flu will cause excess deaths every winter, vaccines or no vaccines. We'll get better at treating it but it's still going to kill people but 90% odd of those will be people with low life expectancies anyway.

How long is a season with covid? What was the death rate around April and May? September and October?  have you figures to show that this will be just a winter thing?

I asked a question an you responded without answering, only to ask a number of questions.

Do you think we are going to eradicate Covid or do you think it is here to stay? Simple question for you to state which way you think it will go.

When/where did you ask me a question?

But if this helps... Covid has been around in many different forms for years, it's not going away but we have managed to adopt, that's what the world is currently doing, finding vaccines lowering cases and fatalities.

Now, answer mine

I asked a question in the post you responded to. You responed with a question. Again I have asked you to answer the question and you have given a vague, ambiguous answer as per usual.

It's a pretty simple question so try and answer it simply rather than sitting on the fence.

Do you think we will be able to eradicate Covid with lockdown measures and a vaccine? Yes or no.

I answered it, what's the issue? Covid will be with us and has been with us for years, and we will adopt to it

Now can you answer mine? or you can just avoid it

So to clarify you accept that the vaccine and lockdown measures are not going to get rid of Covid?

I would say April was an outlier.

Deaths from May - September did not see huge variations really. An 8% increase on deaths in the same period of 2019.

If you exclude the outlier of April, deaths rose by 9% last year in comparison to 2019. That sort of rise in deaths is not unprecedented, we had a 6% rise from 2014 to 2015, deaths rose again 2 years later by another 4%.

April is a massive outlier in the whole pandemic.






Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 12:11:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:07:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:59:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:52:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:32:40 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:35:46 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 03, 2021, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.
What they're saying is the data is backing the gap between doses in the AstraZeneca jab.  They are saying that the wait of 12 weeks is working with that jab. 
GetOverTheBar has misread what the article is saying. It's not that the anitibodies that the AstraZeneca jab lasts JUST 3 months, it's that it lasts the three months between the jabs.  They are taking a gamble on leaving a 12 week gap between Pfizer jabs.  There is no data to back that decision.
The AstraZeneca news is really encouraging in fact.  It will bring the pandemic to an end much quicker.  There is one massive caveat to it though, the variants.  The race is on to get this vaccine campaign completed before they become the dominant strain.

Covid is something that's here to stay, it's something that will likely come around seasonally like flu, it will kill people every year but we will just get on with things - much like we do with flu currently.

Do people here think we are going to completely eradicate Covid forever over the next year or so?

Or do they think, as I do, that it's here for the rest of our lives and much like flu will cause excess deaths every winter, vaccines or no vaccines. We'll get better at treating it but it's still going to kill people but 90% odd of those will be people with low life expectancies anyway.

How long is a season with covid? What was the death rate around April and May? September and October?  have you figures to show that this will be just a winter thing?

I asked a question an you responded without answering, only to ask a number of questions.

Do you think we are going to eradicate Covid or do you think it is here to stay? Simple question for you to state which way you think it will go.

When/where did you ask me a question?

But if this helps... Covid has been around in many different forms for years, it's not going away but we have managed to adopt, that's what the world is currently doing, finding vaccines lowering cases and fatalities.

Now, answer mine

I asked a question in the post you responded to. You responed with a question. Again I have asked you to answer the question and you have given a vague, ambiguous answer as per usual.

It's a pretty simple question so try and answer it simply rather than sitting on the fence.

Do you think we will be able to eradicate Covid with lockdown measures and a vaccine? Yes or no.

I answered it, what's the issue? Covid will be with us and has been with us for years, and we will adopt to it

Now can you answer mine? or you can just avoid it

So to clarify you accept that the vaccine and lockdown measures are not going to get rid of Covid?

I would say April was an outlier.

Deaths from May - September did not see huge variations really. An 8% increase on deaths in the same period of 2019.

If you exclude the outlier of April, deaths rose by 9% last year in comparison to 2019. That sort of rise in deaths is not unprecedented, we had a 6% rise from 2014 to 2015, deaths rose again 2 years later by another 4%.

April is a massive outlier in the whole pandemic.

Was the flu of 17/18 an outlier?

So what happened between the months of May to September?  was there a lockdown end of March through to July? Schools off and most people out doors, then strangely Sept we started to see a rise in cases
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 03, 2021, 12:14:12 PM
Let's just exclude a month  ::)

The month that was first serious indicator of the pandemic  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on February 03, 2021, 12:16:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 09:32:03 AM
The question I asked was what was the average life expectancy from when a person enters a nursing home. The question is quite clear, there is little ambiguity in it. I went and found out the answer too, linked in the report - its 12 months. You have posted a series of long meandering posts that cover anything but the question asked.

Average = cumulative total divided by number of figures
Life expectancy = how long they will live for
When they go into the nursing home = as it says

Average life expectancy when they go into a nursing home.

I didn't ask for how long or how short they could live for, I asked for the average life expectancy. Maybe try and read more carefully next time.

This type of reply is why you are not respected by anyone on this board, Angelo.

There was an attempt to inform a feature of the discussion with reliable, and clearly relevant information. Most people with a genuine interest in developing the discussion would have taken this in good faith and worked through the figures.

But, as usual, your replies demonstrated no desire to get involved in an actual discussion. All you offered instead was belligerence and dogma.

The bit highlighted above is peak Angelo - you find something, somewhere that chimes along your intractable position and refuse to entertain any appraisal of contradictory information. The most absurd thing is that the source you provided doesn't even say what you claim it says. This is all very Trumpian, very post truth. Do you think it convinces many?

If you must make yourself such an incessant presence throughout this board, at least try to contribute from a position of honesty going forward. You have almost 1000 posts here since the turn of the year - more than 10% of the board output. You set the tone on whole threads here, which now essentially read like your blog. And that tone is nasty, antagonistic, and frustrated.

It seems like some sort of acceptance matters to you on this board, despite your objections. There's little other reason to spend so much time and energy in defence of an online persona. Perhaps a change of approach should be considered, for the health of both the board and yourself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:17:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 12:11:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:07:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:59:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:52:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:32:40 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:35:46 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 03, 2021, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.
What they're saying is the data is backing the gap between doses in the AstraZeneca jab.  They are saying that the wait of 12 weeks is working with that jab. 
GetOverTheBar has misread what the article is saying. It's not that the anitibodies that the AstraZeneca jab lasts JUST 3 months, it's that it lasts the three months between the jabs.  They are taking a gamble on leaving a 12 week gap between Pfizer jabs.  There is no data to back that decision.
The AstraZeneca news is really encouraging in fact.  It will bring the pandemic to an end much quicker.  There is one massive caveat to it though, the variants.  The race is on to get this vaccine campaign completed before they become the dominant strain.

Covid is something that's here to stay, it's something that will likely come around seasonally like flu, it will kill people every year but we will just get on with things - much like we do with flu currently.

Do people here think we are going to completely eradicate Covid forever over the next year or so?

Or do they think, as I do, that it's here for the rest of our lives and much like flu will cause excess deaths every winter, vaccines or no vaccines. We'll get better at treating it but it's still going to kill people but 90% odd of those will be people with low life expectancies anyway.

How long is a season with covid? What was the death rate around April and May? September and October?  have you figures to show that this will be just a winter thing?

I asked a question an you responded without answering, only to ask a number of questions.

Do you think we are going to eradicate Covid or do you think it is here to stay? Simple question for you to state which way you think it will go.

When/where did you ask me a question?

But if this helps... Covid has been around in many different forms for years, it's not going away but we have managed to adopt, that's what the world is currently doing, finding vaccines lowering cases and fatalities.

Now, answer mine

I asked a question in the post you responded to. You responed with a question. Again I have asked you to answer the question and you have given a vague, ambiguous answer as per usual.

It's a pretty simple question so try and answer it simply rather than sitting on the fence.

Do you think we will be able to eradicate Covid with lockdown measures and a vaccine? Yes or no.

I answered it, what's the issue? Covid will be with us and has been with us for years, and we will adopt to it

Now can you answer mine? or you can just avoid it

So to clarify you accept that the vaccine and lockdown measures are not going to get rid of Covid?

I would say April was an outlier.

Deaths from May - September did not see huge variations really. An 8% increase on deaths in the same period of 2019.

If you exclude the outlier of April, deaths rose by 9% last year in comparison to 2019. That sort of rise in deaths is not unprecedented, we had a 6% rise from 2014 to 2015, deaths rose again 2 years later by another 4%.

April is a massive outlier in the whole pandemic.

Was the flu of 17/18 an outlier?

So what happened between the months of May to September?  was there a lockdown end of March through to July? Schools off and most people out doors, then strangely Sept we started to see a rise in cases

Of course.

But we didn't shut society down like we've done for Covid on the basis of an outlier which had a vaccine readily available.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:17:41 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 12:14:12 PM
Let's just exclude a month  ::)

The month that was first serious indicator of the pandemic  :o

Yet people here want to ignore winter flu in 17/18.

You can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:20:10 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on February 03, 2021, 12:16:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 09:32:03 AM
The question I asked was what was the average life expectancy from when a person enters a nursing home. The question is quite clear, there is little ambiguity in it. I went and found out the answer too, linked in the report - its 12 months. You have posted a series of long meandering posts that cover anything but the question asked.

Average = cumulative total divided by number of figures
Life expectancy = how long they will live for
When they go into the nursing home = as it says

Average life expectancy when they go into a nursing home.

I didn't ask for how long or how short they could live for, I asked for the average life expectancy. Maybe try and read more carefully next time.

This type of reply is why you are not respected by anyone on this board, Angelo.

There was an attempt to inform a feature of the discussion with reliable, and clearly relevant information. Most people with a genuine interest in developing the discussion would have taken this in good faith and worked through the figures.

But, as usual, your replies demonstrated no desire to get involved in an actual discussion. All you offered instead was belligerence and dogma.

The bit highlighted above is peak Angelo - you find something, somewhere that chimes along your intractable position and refuse to entertain any appraisal of contradictory information. The most absurd thing is that the source you provided doesn't even say what you claim it says. This is all very Trumpian, very post truth. Do you think it convinces many?

If you must make yourself such an incessant presence throughout this board, at least try to contribute from a position of honesty going forward. You have almost 1000 posts here since the turn of the year - more than 10% of the board output. You set the tone on whole threads here, which now essentially read like your blog. And that tone is nasty, antagonistic, and frustrated.

It seems like some sort of acceptance matters to you on this board, despite your objections. There's little other reason to spend so much time and energy in defence of an online persona. Perhaps a change of approach should be considered, for the health of both the board and yourself.

You're projecting here. You tried to muddy the waters with misniformation and have now proceeded to attack the man rather than play the ball.

I asked a question and you took to answering something different in order to shift the focus.

It is the absolute height of hypocrisy from yourself to talk about honesty, Trumpian, atagonistic and nasty when these are all the motivations for you to spin, smear and bullshit your way around facts and data that don't fit in with your prejudiced agenda.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 03, 2021, 12:21:36 PM
As has been pointed out numerous times - no one has ignored the flu in 2017/18. It's been explained to you everyway with links, reports and comments.

You just want to throw out a month to reduce figures!
Will we exclude anymore periods for you to form an argument?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:25:59 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 12:21:36 PM
As has been pointed out numerous times - no one has ignored the flu in 2017/18. It's been explained to you everyway with links, reports and comments.

You just want to throw out a month to reduce figures!
Will we exclude anymore periods for you to form an argument?

So were you advocating lockdowns in 2017/18 winter flu season?

Did you find that level of deaths acceptable?

Should we lockdown every winter to save lives from flu?

There are simple questions with yes/no answers you don't have the courage to answer and  avoid as they unmask your double standards. This is the crux of the matter.

Hypocrites putting themselves up on a pedestal pontificating about saving lives when they could not give a toss.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 12:40:43 PM
Just a quick one for everyone on their current thinking -

Do you as things stand, see March being the end of lockdown both North and South?

I'm feeling like it could well be, things seem to be going down. I don't expect either jurisdiction to ease anything in February. I don't expect them to open everything March (maybe most things by the end of it). Where do you see it?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 03, 2021, 12:42:19 PM
I think there is a possibility for things like cafes and gyms to open. I would be very surprised on bars. Restaurants I'm not too sure on.

(Only a feeling as I know as much as anyone else lol)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on February 03, 2021, 12:47:36 PM
Things seem to be going in the right direction here. We get bogged down with whats happening in England. I would imagine some easing of a restriction or two but nothing to exciting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:51:17 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 12:40:43 PM
Just a quick one for everyone on their current thinking -

Do you as things stand, see March being the end of lockdown both North and South?

I'm feeling like it could well be, things seem to be going down. I don't expect either jurisdiction to ease anything in February. I don't expect them to open everything March (maybe most things by the end of it). Where do you see it?

You'd hope so but you couldn't rule it out. It will be a gradual rolling back from March you'd assume.

Governments and politics as a whole has been utterly disgraceful throughout this, they have failed to tackle any of the issues driving it. The report in the FS yesterday about half of the deaths being nursing home residents was utterly scandalous and that has nothing to do with people not following restrictions, it is do with poor planning and neglecting the most vulnerable, the same can be said about 1/3 of people with Covid in hospitals actually contracting it there. This is a health service crisis more than anything else.

For 95% of the population this virus is no danger but the most vulnerable have been failed by the state.

Governments took the strategy of throwing all their eggs into one basket (the vaccine). So if this doesn't work or is not effective we are back to square one and have given up a year of our lives living like hermits, caused huge social damage to society, wrecked the economy, forced financial hardship on families, shut businesses down, took away people's livelihoods and jobs - for what end?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 03, 2021, 12:58:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:25:59 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 12:21:36 PM
As has been pointed out numerous times - no one has ignored the flu in 2017/18. It's been explained to you everyway with links, reports and comments.

You just want to throw out a month to reduce figures!
Will we exclude anymore periods for you to form an argument?

So were you advocating lockdowns in 2017/18 winter flu season?

Did you find that level of deaths acceptable?

Should we lockdown every winter to save lives from flu?

There are simple questions with yes/no answers you don't have the courage to answer and  avoid as they unmask your double standards. This is the crux of the matter.

Hypocrites putting themselves up on a pedestal pontificating about saving lives when they could not give a toss.

Angelo - the only thing you care about is yourself and what suits you. On every thread you post on this board you argue, shout, ignore and insult others. Every single one. There is a common denominator there. You. You don't give a rats arse about Flu, mental health or anything else. Only yourself. I'm sure you're so insecure that you need to shout and reassure yourself you are important but really you're just a mouth who takes no responsibility for anything.

And to answer your questions.

No - wasn't advocating for lockdown in 2017/18. There was already lot know on flu, measures in place and in ROI the increase in death caused by that flu season was an additional 50 deaths. Tragic in itself but not at levels that requires lockdown measures.

Death isn't acceptable. But there is measures in place by Governments, globally, to measure the risk or new and unknowns threats. When a storm comes, for example, in the US, they will consider it and issue the threat level and categorise the storm. This considers the risk to life. According, the relevant steps are taken to minimise the risk to life - death isn't accepted. Covid was a pandemic. It's been unprecedented since the Spanish flu. It's a variant of past covid outbreaks that, thankfully, never reached the same scale e.g. SARS. It was unknown, highly contagious and deadly. Despite all the measures taken, it has globally killed millions. It's lasting effects are also unknown on the health of people. It's an ongoing battle with some hope in the form of vaccines and it's why I'll take it in a heart beat as I consider death unacceptable and if it helps, then all and good. Death is in in accepted in all walks of life and we have rules and regulations to manage this - rules of the road, building regulations, food standards, etc etc. It's in every walk of life and has manifested itself over time. Covid has allowed time to allow such. It's sudden and borderless.

Should we lockdown ever winter for flu - no. As above and previously, there is widespread measures in place for Flu and they been addressed further every year. For covid we are years back but making unprecedented progress to catch up to a level to mitigate the risks and put it at the level of the Flu. In 2017/18 flu season in ROI there was just over 50 excess deaths from the previous flu season. In total was less than 200 across all months. We've had more than that this week already with Covid WITH unprecedented restrictions. It's really not hard to understand.

Other posters have put it better but you aren't comparing like with like. I've a 12 year old at home who can grasp the importance of the restrictions. He is missing out so much and my heart breaks at times for them but he can understand and appreciate  the risk to his Nanny, to others, to the wider  community and shows maturity beyond his years (like tens of thousands of others his age) and willingness to do his part for this period to get things back to normal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ty4Sam on February 03, 2021, 01:05:57 PM
I can see a very gradual opening from March with schools opening first with small participation outdoor sports etc following. Going into summer I can see hotels, cafes, restaurants opening with social distancing/masks etc to allow for domestic tourism. I can't see wet pubs opening for the foreseeable unless they can cater for outdoor socialising. Large indoor gatherings ie Weddings, parties etc won't be allowed until next year IMO.
With hotel quarantine due to start shortly in UK and Ireland for specific countries, I can see it being extended to all arrivals for the summer months. There is just too much risk allowing a full scale summer international travel season with variants being around. That reads very pessimistic but I am usually an optimistic person.
This will at least have a summer of some sorts, not ideal but not locked down like we are now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 03, 2021, 01:06:45 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 12:40:43 PM
Just a quick one for everyone on their current thinking -

Do you as things stand, see March being the end of lockdown both North and South?

I'm feeling like it could well be, things seem to be going down. I don't expect either jurisdiction to ease anything in February. I don't expect them to open everything March (maybe most things by the end of it). Where do you see it?

For the south, can see it been handled very lightly with gradual opening in March, very limited.

First thing will be Schools and I'd happily do March if it meant schools got opened. Just allows more time for vaccines in upper age groups and health care workers.

April more retail and potentially Intercounty travel. Indoor restaurants towards end of the month.

With the way it went in December and some hope on horizon it will be handled with kid gloves I
Imagine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 01:09:54 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 12:58:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:25:59 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 12:21:36 PM
As has been pointed out numerous times - no one has ignored the flu in 2017/18. It's been explained to you everyway with links, reports and comments.

You just want to throw out a month to reduce figures!
Will we exclude anymore periods for you to form an argument?

So were you advocating lockdowns in 2017/18 winter flu season?

Did you find that level of deaths acceptable?

Should we lockdown every winter to save lives from flu?

There are simple questions with yes/no answers you don't have the courage to answer and  avoid as they unmask your double standards. This is the crux of the matter.

Hypocrites putting themselves up on a pedestal pontificating about saving lives when they could not give a toss.

Angelo - the only thing you care about is yourself and what suits you. On every thread you post on this board you argue, shout, ignore and insult others. Every single one. There is a common denominator there. You. You don't give a rats arse about Flu, mental health or anything else. Only yourself. I'm sure you're so insecure that you need to shout and reassure yourself you are important but really you're just a mouth who takes no responsibility for anything.

And to answer your questions.

No - wasn't advocating for lockdown in 2017/18. There was already lot know on flu, measures in place and in ROI the increase in death caused by that flu season was an additional 50 deaths. Tragic in itself but not at levels that requires lockdown measures.

Death isn't acceptable. But there is measures in place by Governments, globally, to measure the risk or new and unknowns threats. When a storm comes, for example, in the US, they will consider it and issue the threat level and categorise the storm. This considers the risk to life. According, the relevant steps are taken to minimise the risk to life - death isn't accepted. Covid was a pandemic. It's been unprecedented since the Spanish flu. It's a variant of past covid outbreaks that, thankfully, never reached the same scale e.g. SARS. It was unknown, highly contagious and deadly. Despite all the measures taken, it has globally killed millions. It's lasting effects are also unknown on the health of people. It's an ongoing battle with some hope in the form of vaccines and it's why I'll take it in a heart beat as I consider death unacceptable and if it helps, then all and good. Death is in in accepted in all walks of life and we have rules and regulations to manage this - rules of the road, building regulations, food standards, etc etc. It's in every walk of life and has manifested itself over time. Covid has allowed time to allow such. It's sudden and borderless.

Should we lockdown ever winter for flu - no. As above and previously, there is widespread measures in place for Flu and they been addressed further every year. For covid we are years back but making unprecedented progress to catch up to a level to mitigate the risks and put it at the level of the Flu. In 2017/18 flu season in ROI there was just over 50 excess deaths from the previous flu season. In total was less than 200 across all months. We've had more than that this week already with Covid WITH unprecedented restrictions. It's really not hard to understand.

Other posters have put it better but you aren't comparing like with like. I've a 12 year old at home who can grasp the importance of the restrictions. He is missing out so much and my heart breaks at times for them but he can understand and appreciate  the risk to his Nanny, to others, to the wider  community and shows maturity beyond his years (like tens of thousands of others his age) and willingness to do his part for this period to get things back to normal.

You had a platform to answer those questions with clarity and you failed to take that opportunity. It's no surprise to me that you have as I preempted doing so would expose your contradictions.

Do you want to give it another ago?

Do you maybe want to tell a 12 year old that 50% of the deaths in your state were nursing home residents and that after all the importance of the restrictions they went along with the government couldn't do their job and protect the vulnerable.

I give the same rats ass about mental health, flu etc as you do but I'm not a big enough of a hypocrite to insult and demean those people who were impacted by that to tell them that their lives were meaningless.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 03, 2021, 01:19:26 PM
Angelo, you're a piece of sh*t.

If you can't read, I'm not surprised, that your problem, not mine.

You've tried before to pin at door of hospital and nursing Homes for not keeping Covid out. They've have battled and battled this from day 1 and done everything they can at front line level to keep it out and this started with the community. When it gets rampant in the community if can't be kept out of the hospitals, they've tried impossibly to do so. And that wasn't down to Government, that was down to efforts of nurses, doctors, carers etc. Real honest people who done everything possible.

As for you comment on my 12 year old. He knows the measures been taken to keep people same. He don't see his Mum for 4 weeks in the first lockdown, she a ICU horse who went into 2 different nursing homes in HSE teams, to combat outbreaks. She stayed away as it was impossible to avoid it and wasn't willing to take it home or into the community. We know the measures that been taken in this area to keep it out and it's impossible.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 01:23:47 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 01:19:26 PM
Angelo, you're a piece of sh*t.

If you can't read, I'm not surprised, that your problem, not mine.

You've tried before to pin at door of hospital and nursing Homes for not keeping Covid out. They've have battled and battled this from day 1 and done everything they can at front line level to keep it out and this started with the community. When it gets rampant in the community if can't be kept out of the hospitals, they've tried impossibly to do so. And that wasn't down to Government, that was down to efforts of nurses, doctors, carers etc. Real honest people who done everything possible.

As for you comment on my 12 year old. He knows the measures been taken to keep people same. He don't see his Mum for 4 weeks in the first lockdown, she a ICU horse who went into 2 different nursing homes in HSE teams, to combat outbreaks. She stayed away as it was impossible to avoid it and wasn't willing to take it home or into the community. We know the measures that been taken in this area to keep it out and it's impossible.

I've pinned the blame at the door of the government. You should maybe leave your insults at the door and do some research.

Maybe listen to the anger from the INMO and how they put the blame fully at the door of the HSE for the outbreaks in hospitals. Read this before you call me names again.

https://www.thejournal.ie/nurses-covid-5324012-Jan2021/

So if you want to talk about real honest people then why don't you listen to the ones who are the ones on the front line and are the ones pointing the finger at government for the hospital outbreaks. Doesn't suit your narrative though, does it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 03, 2021, 01:34:27 PM
Listen to the ones at the front line? Did you read my post? My wife is at the very front of that line FFS. I know exactly what's happening.

And that statement from the IMNO was actually laughed at it in the health care sector. She was very dismissive of it and said it was typical of a poor union representative they have had in recent years. She has said they have wanted for nothing in the 2 hospitals she's been posted to. PPE, daily testing, accommodation offers etc. And she involved at a high level in rep groups. That IMNO got very little traction because it was factually poor. It hardly even got the usual Facebook rants.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 01:40:49 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 01:34:27 PM
Listen to the ones at the front line? Did you read my post? My wife is at the very front of that line FFS. I know exactly what's happening.

And that statement from the IMNO was actually laughed at it in the health care sector. She was very dismissive of it and said it was typical of a poor union representative they have had in recent years. She has said they have wanted for nothing in the 2 hospitals she's been posted to. PPE, daily testing, accommodation offers etc. And she involved at a high level in rep groups. That IMNO got very little traction because it was factually poor. It hardly even got the usual Facebook rants.

So you're saying the INMO, the main union which represents nurse and midwives made it all up? Why? Because your "wife" said so.

You seem to be advocating your 12 year old and your wife as experts. Is your friend, the immunologist the next to come in to add to your anecdotal library?

Do you think that February 2021 was a bit late to bring rapid antigen testing to hospitals? I suppose you're going to give the government and health sector another free pass on that disaster?

It's clear as day you are a complete spoofer.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2021, 01:41:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:07:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:59:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:52:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:32:40 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:35:46 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 03, 2021, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.
What they're saying is the data is backing the gap between doses in the AstraZeneca jab.  They are saying that the wait of 12 weeks is working with that jab. 
GetOverTheBar has misread what the article is saying. It's not that the anitibodies that the AstraZeneca jab lasts JUST 3 months, it's that it lasts the three months between the jabs.  They are taking a gamble on leaving a 12 week gap between Pfizer jabs.  There is no data to back that decision.
The AstraZeneca news is really encouraging in fact.  It will bring the pandemic to an end much quicker.  There is one massive caveat to it though, the variants.  The race is on to get this vaccine campaign completed before they become the dominant strain.

Covid is something that's here to stay, it's something that will likely come around seasonally like flu, it will kill people every year but we will just get on with things - much like we do with flu currently.

Do people here think we are going to completely eradicate Covid forever over the next year or so?

Or do they think, as I do, that it's here for the rest of our lives and much like flu will cause excess deaths every winter, vaccines or no vaccines. We'll get better at treating it but it's still going to kill people but 90% odd of those will be people with low life expectancies anyway.

How long is a season with covid? What was the death rate around April and May? September and October?  have you figures to show that this will be just a winter thing?

I asked a question an you responded without answering, only to ask a number of questions.

Do you think we are going to eradicate Covid or do you think it is here to stay? Simple question for you to state which way you think it will go.

When/where did you ask me a question?

But if this helps... Covid has been around in many different forms for years, it's not going away but we have managed to adopt, that's what the world is currently doing, finding vaccines lowering cases and fatalities.

Now, answer mine

I asked a question in the post you responded to. You responed with a question. Again I have asked you to answer the question and you have given a vague, ambiguous answer as per usual.

It's a pretty simple question so try and answer it simply rather than sitting on the fence.

Do you think we will be able to eradicate Covid with lockdown measures and a vaccine? Yes or no.

I answered it, what's the issue? Covid will be with us and has been with us for years, and we will adopt to it

Now can you answer mine? or you can just avoid it

So to clarify you accept that the vaccine and lockdown measures are not going to get rid of Covid?

I would say April was an outlier.

Deaths from May - September did not see huge variations really. An 8% increase on deaths in the same period of 2019.

If you exclude the outlier of April, deaths rose by 9% last year in comparison to 2019. That sort of rise in deaths is not unprecedented, we had a 6% rise from 2014 to 2015, deaths rose again 2 years later by another 4%.

April is a massive outlier in the whole pandemic.

Thankfully lockdowns implemented from March onwards helped reduce the numbers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 01:42:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2021, 01:41:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:07:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:59:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:52:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:32:40 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:35:46 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 03, 2021, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.
What they're saying is the data is backing the gap between doses in the AstraZeneca jab.  They are saying that the wait of 12 weeks is working with that jab. 
GetOverTheBar has misread what the article is saying. It's not that the anitibodies that the AstraZeneca jab lasts JUST 3 months, it's that it lasts the three months between the jabs.  They are taking a gamble on leaving a 12 week gap between Pfizer jabs.  There is no data to back that decision.
The AstraZeneca news is really encouraging in fact.  It will bring the pandemic to an end much quicker.  There is one massive caveat to it though, the variants.  The race is on to get this vaccine campaign completed before they become the dominant strain.

Covid is something that's here to stay, it's something that will likely come around seasonally like flu, it will kill people every year but we will just get on with things - much like we do with flu currently.

Do people here think we are going to completely eradicate Covid forever over the next year or so?

Or do they think, as I do, that it's here for the rest of our lives and much like flu will cause excess deaths every winter, vaccines or no vaccines. We'll get better at treating it but it's still going to kill people but 90% odd of those will be people with low life expectancies anyway.

How long is a season with covid? What was the death rate around April and May? September and October?  have you figures to show that this will be just a winter thing?

I asked a question an you responded without answering, only to ask a number of questions.

Do you think we are going to eradicate Covid or do you think it is here to stay? Simple question for you to state which way you think it will go.

When/where did you ask me a question?

But if this helps... Covid has been around in many different forms for years, it's not going away but we have managed to adopt, that's what the world is currently doing, finding vaccines lowering cases and fatalities.

Now, answer mine

I asked a question in the post you responded to. You responed with a question. Again I have asked you to answer the question and you have given a vague, ambiguous answer as per usual.

It's a pretty simple question so try and answer it simply rather than sitting on the fence.

Do you think we will be able to eradicate Covid with lockdown measures and a vaccine? Yes or no.

I answered it, what's the issue? Covid will be with us and has been with us for years, and we will adopt to it

Now can you answer mine? or you can just avoid it

So to clarify you accept that the vaccine and lockdown measures are not going to get rid of Covid?

I would say April was an outlier.

Deaths from May - September did not see huge variations really. An 8% increase on deaths in the same period of 2019.

If you exclude the outlier of April, deaths rose by 9% last year in comparison to 2019. That sort of rise in deaths is not unprecedented, we had a 6% rise from 2014 to 2015, deaths rose again 2 years later by another 4%.

April is a massive outlier in the whole pandemic.

Thankfully lockdowns implemented from March onwards helped reduce the numbers.

Restrictions had been eased back from June and numbers didn't begin to really take off again until October, can you explain that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 03, 2021, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 12:40:43 PM
Just a quick one for everyone on their current thinking -

Do you as things stand, see March being the end of lockdown both North and South?

I'm feeling like it could well be, things seem to be going down. I don't expect either jurisdiction to ease anything in February. I don't expect them to open everything March (maybe most things by the end of it). Where do you see it?

In the south I expect construction to re-start in March and they'll be hoping to get the schools re-opened. It's obviously hard to predict but you would hope retail and cafes, restaurants etc with outdoor eating areas could re-open in April. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 03, 2021, 01:56:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 01:40:49 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 01:34:27 PM
Listen to the ones at the front line? Did you read my post? My wife is at the very front of that line FFS. I know exactly what's happening.

And that statement from the IMNO was actually laughed at it in the health care sector. She was very dismissive of it and said it was typical of a poor union representative they have had in recent years. She has said they have wanted for nothing in the 2 hospitals she's been posted to. PPE, daily testing, accommodation offers etc. And she involved at a high level in rep groups. That IMNO got very little traction because it was factually poor. It hardly even got the usual Facebook rants.

So you're saying the INMO, the main union which represents nurse and midwives made it all up? Why? Because your "wife" said so.

You seem to be advocating your 12 year old and your wife as experts. Is your friend, the immunologist the next to come in to add to your anecdotal library?

Do you think that February 2021 was a bit late to bring rapid antigen testing to hospitals? I suppose you're going to give the government and health sector another free pass on that disaster?

It's clear as day you are a complete spoofer.

Believe what you want but I know what I've said is accurate. The INMO statement got no traction, even opposition parties didn't go to town on it. Maybe I'll ask my Chemical Engineering friend for his thoughts.

The antigen tests are only a screening test and not near accurate enough and that's why they slow to introduce. All hospitals had access to submit lab tests for staff and patients and used it extensively. It's slower but a more reliable result and less risk to infection entering system that you so worried about. By all means as a first defence it could have been introduced earlier but large % of health staff where reluctant. Even your much loved INMO aren't convinced by it.

As for been a spoofer, maybe I am. But I can see as plain as day that no one actually agrees with what you post across realms of pots by yourself on various topics. Always conflict, the absolute definition of a spoofer.

Off to ring my Chemical Engineering friend here.  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 01:59:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 01:42:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2021, 01:41:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:07:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:59:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:52:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:32:40 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:35:46 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 03, 2021, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.
What they're saying is the data is backing the gap between doses in the AstraZeneca jab.  They are saying that the wait of 12 weeks is working with that jab. 
GetOverTheBar has misread what the article is saying. It's not that the anitibodies that the AstraZeneca jab lasts JUST 3 months, it's that it lasts the three months between the jabs.  They are taking a gamble on leaving a 12 week gap between Pfizer jabs.  There is no data to back that decision.
The AstraZeneca news is really encouraging in fact.  It will bring the pandemic to an end much quicker.  There is one massive caveat to it though, the variants.  The race is on to get this vaccine campaign completed before they become the dominant strain.

Covid is something that's here to stay, it's something that will likely come around seasonally like flu, it will kill people every year but we will just get on with things - much like we do with flu currently.

Do people here think we are going to completely eradicate Covid forever over the next year or so?

Or do they think, as I do, that it's here for the rest of our lives and much like flu will cause excess deaths every winter, vaccines or no vaccines. We'll get better at treating it but it's still going to kill people but 90% odd of those will be people with low life expectancies anyway.

How long is a season with covid? What was the death rate around April and May? September and October?  have you figures to show that this will be just a winter thing?

I asked a question an you responded without answering, only to ask a number of questions.

Do you think we are going to eradicate Covid or do you think it is here to stay? Simple question for you to state which way you think it will go.

When/where did you ask me a question?

But if this helps... Covid has been around in many different forms for years, it's not going away but we have managed to adopt, that's what the world is currently doing, finding vaccines lowering cases and fatalities.

Now, answer mine

I asked a question in the post you responded to. You responed with a question. Again I have asked you to answer the question and you have given a vague, ambiguous answer as per usual.

It's a pretty simple question so try and answer it simply rather than sitting on the fence.

Do you think we will be able to eradicate Covid with lockdown measures and a vaccine? Yes or no.

I answered it, what's the issue? Covid will be with us and has been with us for years, and we will adopt to it

Now can you answer mine? or you can just avoid it

So to clarify you accept that the vaccine and lockdown measures are not going to get rid of Covid?

I would say April was an outlier.

Deaths from May - September did not see huge variations really. An 8% increase on deaths in the same period of 2019.

If you exclude the outlier of April, deaths rose by 9% last year in comparison to 2019. That sort of rise in deaths is not unprecedented, we had a 6% rise from 2014 to 2015, deaths rose again 2 years later by another 4%.

April is a massive outlier in the whole pandemic.

Thankfully lockdowns implemented from March onwards helped reduce the numbers.

Restrictions had been eased back from June and numbers didn't begin to really take off again until October, can you explain that?

End of June, kids were off school and the weather allowed people to go outside, the pubs were still closed, eating only allowed in most and some never opened. No holidays so the virus was being kept in the one area, end of August it came back and hasn't went away, the 2 months of summer and kids going back created more transmissions more cases and more deaths.

Its not flu nor is it seasonal unless the season is June to August like you have pointed out... That's some season of despair
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 03, 2021, 02:07:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 01:42:35 PM
Restrictions had been eased back from June and numbers didn't begin to really take off again until October, can you explain that?

Numbers increased steadily during this time. It is just that if you have 9 cases/day then an increase of one third is 12 cases/day and it doesn't seem so much. But as time by people became reckless, including shameful behaviour by some GAA fans. Then in September schools opened and universities to some extent.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 02:09:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 03, 2021, 02:07:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 01:42:35 PM
Restrictions had been eased back from June and numbers didn't begin to really take off again until October, can you explain that?

Numbers increased steadily during this time. It is just that if you have 9 cases/day then an increase of one third is 12 cases/day and it doesn't seem so much. But as time by people became reckless, including shameful behaviour by some GAA fans. Then in September schools opened and universities to some extent.

Not really, what happened was it took around 3 months of fairly lax restrictions for things to kick off.

It clear looks like a seasonality impact, like flu.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on February 03, 2021, 02:13:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 02:09:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 03, 2021, 02:07:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 01:42:35 PM
Restrictions had been eased back from June and numbers didn't begin to really take off again until October, can you explain that?

Numbers increased steadily during this time. It is just that if you have 9 cases/day then an increase of one third is 12 cases/day and it doesn't seem so much. But as time by people became reckless, including shameful behaviour by some GAA fans. Then in September schools opened and universities to some extent.

Not really, what happened was it took around 3 months of fairly lax restrictions for things to kick off.

It clear looks like a seasonality impact, like flu.

Schools came back in September full steam, little or no restrictions and that seems to have a major impact on community spread.

UK tried various tiered systems which were having little impact on reducing spread until they closed the schools especially when the UK variant took hold.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 02:25:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 03, 2021, 02:13:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 02:09:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 03, 2021, 02:07:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 01:42:35 PM
Restrictions had been eased back from June and numbers didn't begin to really take off again until October, can you explain that?

Numbers increased steadily during this time. It is just that if you have 9 cases/day then an increase of one third is 12 cases/day and it doesn't seem so much. But as time by people became reckless, including shameful behaviour by some GAA fans. Then in September schools opened and universities to some extent.

Not really, what happened was it took around 3 months of fairly lax restrictions for things to kick off.

It clear looks like a seasonality impact, like flu.

Schools came back in September full steam, little or no restrictions and that seems to have a major impact on community spread.

UK tried various tiered systems which were having little impact on reducing spread until they closed the schools especially when the UK variant took hold.

So you'd put the blame at the schools? Not getting at you as such but just wondering if that's the key factor in how the virus ramped up quickly when it had been so slow in Jun/July/Aug and early Sept.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on February 03, 2021, 02:39:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 02:25:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 03, 2021, 02:13:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 02:09:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 03, 2021, 02:07:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 01:42:35 PM
Restrictions had been eased back from June and numbers didn't begin to really take off again until October, can you explain that?

Numbers increased steadily during this time. It is just that if you have 9 cases/day then an increase of one third is 12 cases/day and it doesn't seem so much. But as time by people became reckless, including shameful behaviour by some GAA fans. Then in September schools opened and universities to some extent.

Not really, what happened was it took around 3 months of fairly lax restrictions for things to kick off.

It clear looks like a seasonality impact, like flu.

Schools came back in September full steam, little or no restrictions and that seems to have a major impact on community spread.

UK tried various tiered systems which were having little impact on reducing spread until they closed the schools especially when the UK variant took hold.

So you'd put the blame at the schools? Not getting at you as such but just wondering if that's the key factor in how the virus ramped up quickly when it had been so slow in Jun/July/Aug and early Sept.

Not sure of any other community activities that kicked in and around in September that might have caused it. Remember that Covid has roughly a two or three week gestation period and that causes the lag from cause to effect.

There's only so many GAA celebrations about at that time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2021, 02:46:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 01:42:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2021, 01:41:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:07:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:59:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:52:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:32:40 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:35:46 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 03, 2021, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.
What they're saying is the data is backing the gap between doses in the AstraZeneca jab.  They are saying that the wait of 12 weeks is working with that jab. 
GetOverTheBar has misread what the article is saying. It's not that the anitibodies that the AstraZeneca jab lasts JUST 3 months, it's that it lasts the three months between the jabs.  They are taking a gamble on leaving a 12 week gap between Pfizer jabs.  There is no data to back that decision.
The AstraZeneca news is really encouraging in fact.  It will bring the pandemic to an end much quicker.  There is one massive caveat to it though, the variants.  The race is on to get this vaccine campaign completed before they become the dominant strain.

Covid is something that's here to stay, it's something that will likely come around seasonally like flu, it will kill people every year but we will just get on with things - much like we do with flu currently.

Do people here think we are going to completely eradicate Covid forever over the next year or so?

Or do they think, as I do, that it's here for the rest of our lives and much like flu will cause excess deaths every winter, vaccines or no vaccines. We'll get better at treating it but it's still going to kill people but 90% odd of those will be people with low life expectancies anyway.

How long is a season with covid? What was the death rate around April and May? September and October?  have you figures to show that this will be just a winter thing?

I asked a question an you responded without answering, only to ask a number of questions.

Do you think we are going to eradicate Covid or do you think it is here to stay? Simple question for you to state which way you think it will go.

When/where did you ask me a question?

But if this helps... Covid has been around in many different forms for years, it's not going away but we have managed to adopt, that's what the world is currently doing, finding vaccines lowering cases and fatalities.

Now, answer mine

I asked a question in the post you responded to. You responed with a question. Again I have asked you to answer the question and you have given a vague, ambiguous answer as per usual.

It's a pretty simple question so try and answer it simply rather than sitting on the fence.

Do you think we will be able to eradicate Covid with lockdown measures and a vaccine? Yes or no.

I answered it, what's the issue? Covid will be with us and has been with us for years, and we will adopt to it

Now can you answer mine? or you can just avoid it

So to clarify you accept that the vaccine and lockdown measures are not going to get rid of Covid?

I would say April was an outlier.

Deaths from May - September did not see huge variations really. An 8% increase on deaths in the same period of 2019.

If you exclude the outlier of April, deaths rose by 9% last year in comparison to 2019. That sort of rise in deaths is not unprecedented, we had a 6% rise from 2014 to 2015, deaths rose again 2 years later by another 4%.

April is a massive outlier in the whole pandemic.

Thankfully lockdowns implemented from March onwards helped reduce the numbers.

Restrictions had been eased back from June and numbers didn't begin to really take off again until October, can you explain that?
Summer. People outside more. People still very vary of COVID. No schools.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 04:02:09 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2021, 02:46:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 01:42:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2021, 01:41:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:07:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:59:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:52:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:32:40 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:35:46 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 03, 2021, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.
What they're saying is the data is backing the gap between doses in the AstraZeneca jab.  They are saying that the wait of 12 weeks is working with that jab. 
GetOverTheBar has misread what the article is saying. It's not that the anitibodies that the AstraZeneca jab lasts JUST 3 months, it's that it lasts the three months between the jabs.  They are taking a gamble on leaving a 12 week gap between Pfizer jabs.  There is no data to back that decision.
The AstraZeneca news is really encouraging in fact.  It will bring the pandemic to an end much quicker.  There is one massive caveat to it though, the variants.  The race is on to get this vaccine campaign completed before they become the dominant strain.

Covid is something that's here to stay, it's something that will likely come around seasonally like flu, it will kill people every year but we will just get on with things - much like we do with flu currently.

Do people here think we are going to completely eradicate Covid forever over the next year or so?

Or do they think, as I do, that it's here for the rest of our lives and much like flu will cause excess deaths every winter, vaccines or no vaccines. We'll get better at treating it but it's still going to kill people but 90% odd of those will be people with low life expectancies anyway.

How long is a season with covid? What was the death rate around April and May? September and October?  have you figures to show that this will be just a winter thing?

I asked a question an you responded without answering, only to ask a number of questions.

Do you think we are going to eradicate Covid or do you think it is here to stay? Simple question for you to state which way you think it will go.

When/where did you ask me a question?

But if this helps... Covid has been around in many different forms for years, it's not going away but we have managed to adopt, that's what the world is currently doing, finding vaccines lowering cases and fatalities.

Now, answer mine

I asked a question in the post you responded to. You responed with a question. Again I have asked you to answer the question and you have given a vague, ambiguous answer as per usual.

It's a pretty simple question so try and answer it simply rather than sitting on the fence.

Do you think we will be able to eradicate Covid with lockdown measures and a vaccine? Yes or no.

I answered it, what's the issue? Covid will be with us and has been with us for years, and we will adopt to it

Now can you answer mine? or you can just avoid it

So to clarify you accept that the vaccine and lockdown measures are not going to get rid of Covid?

I would say April was an outlier.

Deaths from May - September did not see huge variations really. An 8% increase on deaths in the same period of 2019.

If you exclude the outlier of April, deaths rose by 9% last year in comparison to 2019. That sort of rise in deaths is not unprecedented, we had a 6% rise from 2014 to 2015, deaths rose again 2 years later by another 4%.

April is a massive outlier in the whole pandemic.

Thankfully lockdowns implemented from March onwards helped reduce the numbers.

Restrictions had been eased back from June and numbers didn't begin to really take off again until October, can you explain that?
Summer. People outside more. People still very vary of COVID. No schools.

I wouldn't say wariness of Covid was a factor at all but definitely the seasonal aspect is a huge issue in its transmission.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2021, 04:15:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 04:02:09 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2021, 02:46:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 01:42:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2021, 01:41:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 12:07:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:59:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:52:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:32:40 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 11:27:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 11:19:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 10:35:46 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 03, 2021, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 03, 2021, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 03, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
So it looks like you get more protection from naturally surviving Covid, than the vaccine (oxford)?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-virus-antibodies-last-for-at-least-six-months-after-infection-study-finds-12207174

https://news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

Not actually sure if this is good or bad news.

It's hard to know but can only think that any resistance at this stage is better than none.

I would consider that the UK playing a dangerous game with the 12 week gap, going against all other advice on the matter.

They are doing such a massive job on getting the 1st jab done, are they risking limiting this impact by waiting another 12 weeks? The stats to date suggesting they are in the vulnerable categories before the new variants are to be considered.

The data from Israel compared to UK over coming weeks will be key for research groups into this.
What they're saying is the data is backing the gap between doses in the AstraZeneca jab.  They are saying that the wait of 12 weeks is working with that jab. 
GetOverTheBar has misread what the article is saying. It's not that the anitibodies that the AstraZeneca jab lasts JUST 3 months, it's that it lasts the three months between the jabs.  They are taking a gamble on leaving a 12 week gap between Pfizer jabs.  There is no data to back that decision.
The AstraZeneca news is really encouraging in fact.  It will bring the pandemic to an end much quicker.  There is one massive caveat to it though, the variants.  The race is on to get this vaccine campaign completed before they become the dominant strain.

Covid is something that's here to stay, it's something that will likely come around seasonally like flu, it will kill people every year but we will just get on with things - much like we do with flu currently.

Do people here think we are going to completely eradicate Covid forever over the next year or so?

Or do they think, as I do, that it's here for the rest of our lives and much like flu will cause excess deaths every winter, vaccines or no vaccines. We'll get better at treating it but it's still going to kill people but 90% odd of those will be people with low life expectancies anyway.

How long is a season with covid? What was the death rate around April and May? September and October?  have you figures to show that this will be just a winter thing?

I asked a question an you responded without answering, only to ask a number of questions.

Do you think we are going to eradicate Covid or do you think it is here to stay? Simple question for you to state which way you think it will go.

When/where did you ask me a question?

But if this helps... Covid has been around in many different forms for years, it's not going away but we have managed to adopt, that's what the world is currently doing, finding vaccines lowering cases and fatalities.

Now, answer mine

I asked a question in the post you responded to. You responed with a question. Again I have asked you to answer the question and you have given a vague, ambiguous answer as per usual.

It's a pretty simple question so try and answer it simply rather than sitting on the fence.

Do you think we will be able to eradicate Covid with lockdown measures and a vaccine? Yes or no.

I answered it, what's the issue? Covid will be with us and has been with us for years, and we will adopt to it

Now can you answer mine? or you can just avoid it

So to clarify you accept that the vaccine and lockdown measures are not going to get rid of Covid?

I would say April was an outlier.

Deaths from May - September did not see huge variations really. An 8% increase on deaths in the same period of 2019.

If you exclude the outlier of April, deaths rose by 9% last year in comparison to 2019. That sort of rise in deaths is not unprecedented, we had a 6% rise from 2014 to 2015, deaths rose again 2 years later by another 4%.

April is a massive outlier in the whole pandemic.

Thankfully lockdowns implemented from March onwards helped reduce the numbers.

Restrictions had been eased back from June and numbers didn't begin to really take off again until October, can you explain that?
Summer. People outside more. People still very vary of COVID. No schools.

I wouldn't say wariness of Covid was a factor at all but definitely the seasonal aspect is a huge issue in its transmission.

I didn't expect you to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 04:23:58 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2021, 04:15:41 PM


I didn't expect you to.

You're saying people were wary of Covid in June/July/Aug/Sep but not wary of it Oct/Nov/Dec.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 06:09:17 PM
Has Rossfan stopped his gleeful updates comparing the cases and death figures north and south?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2021, 06:52:37 PM
So cases in March April May June September October November December January and now February...which season has it not been in? Is this a seasonal thing or all year thing?

I suppose when the kids were off and the summer was good that might have help not spreading it as kids were outside more
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on February 03, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Chris Whitty in the N10 debrief today pretty much said we can expect seasonal winter covid outbreaks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 03, 2021, 07:03:47 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 03, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Chris Whitty in the N10 debrief today pretty much said we can expect seasonal winter covid outbreaks.

People spending more time indoors and all the traveling and mixing at Christmas is perfect conditions for Covid to spread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2021, 07:24:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 04:23:58 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2021, 04:15:41 PM


I didn't expect you to.

You're saying people were wary of Covid in June/July/Aug/Sep but not wary of it Oct/Nov/Dec.

Less wary yes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 04, 2021, 09:30:48 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 03, 2021, 07:03:47 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 03, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Chris Whitty in the N10 debrief today pretty much said we can expect seasonal winter covid outbreaks.

People spending more time indoors and all the traveling and mixing at Christmas is perfect conditions for Covid to spread.

Not trying to pick a fight here....but that kind of flies in the face of the "Stay at Home" message too.

So homes are a breeding ground for it, fair enough. But are people never supposed to leave or what? Do we weld people indoors like the Chinese did?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on February 04, 2021, 10:33:12 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2021, 07:24:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 04:23:58 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2021, 04:15:41 PM


I didn't expect you to.

You're saying people were wary of Covid in June/July/Aug/Sep but not wary of it Oct/Nov/Dec.

Less wary yes.

I'm not sure this is true. For starters, very few people were wearing masks until well into August.  Cavan had 2 serious outbreaks caused by post-county final pissups in September and early October but none after we won the Ulster final in late November.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 04, 2021, 10:52:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 04, 2021, 09:30:48 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 03, 2021, 07:03:47 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 03, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Chris Whitty in the N10 debrief today pretty much said we can expect seasonal winter covid outbreaks.

People spending more time indoors and all the traveling and mixing at Christmas is perfect conditions for Covid to spread.

Not trying to pick a fight here....but that kind of flies in the face of the "Stay at Home" message too.

So homes are a breeding ground for it, fair enough. But are people never supposed to leave or what? Do we weld people indoors like the Chinese did?

I'd a client in the other day, works in an office during the day and taxi's at night, office is full and no proper social distancing like before...

He was telling me that he picked up a fare the other night, up the West and heading back over North Belfast, around midnight, the lad was coming back from his mates 'bar' that he has had erected in his garden, fully functional bar, with all the optics, pumps fridges and even a portaloo type thingy...

He charges his 'friends' £20 and its 'free' drink pool table big tv for the footie also!

The taxi driver says there are loads of these type places around Belfast and beyond, to the point that he has ordered a £6,000 'shed' for his own garden to do the same thing... His point was why go to the pub and pay a fiver for a pint when I can have my mates around for a session, they bring their own kegs and can carry on..

God knows how many of these type places are carrying on!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 10:59:15 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 04, 2021, 09:30:48 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 03, 2021, 07:03:47 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 03, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Chris Whitty in the N10 debrief today pretty much said we can expect seasonal winter covid outbreaks.

People spending more time indoors and all the traveling and mixing at Christmas is perfect conditions for Covid to spread.

Not trying to pick a fight here....but that kind of flies in the face of the "Stay at Home" message too.

So homes are a breeding ground for it, fair enough. But are people never supposed to leave or what? Do we weld people indoors like the Chinese did?

Staying at home is fine, but at christmas you had large groups meeting up from different households coming from all over the place. Also as it was christmas you couldn't meet outdoors and had to stay inside so you had more people in an enclosed space
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 04, 2021, 11:08:56 AM
More people were allowed to meet inside than outside lol.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 04, 2021, 11:13:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 04, 2021, 10:52:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 04, 2021, 09:30:48 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 03, 2021, 07:03:47 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 03, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Chris Whitty in the N10 debrief today pretty much said we can expect seasonal winter covid outbreaks.

People spending more time indoors and all the traveling and mixing at Christmas is perfect conditions for Covid to spread.

Not trying to pick a fight here....but that kind of flies in the face of the "Stay at Home" message too.

So homes are a breeding ground for it, fair enough. But are people never supposed to leave or what? Do we weld people indoors like the Chinese did?

I'd a client in the other day, works in an office during the day and taxi's at night, office is full and no proper social distancing like before...

He was telling me that he picked up a fare the other night, up the West and heading back over North Belfast, around midnight, the lad was coming back from his mates 'bar' that he has had erected in his garden, fully functional bar, with all the optics, pumps fridges and even a portaloo type thingy...

He charges his 'friends' £20 and its 'free' drink pool table big tv for the footie also!

The taxi driver says there are loads of these type places around Belfast and beyond, to the point that he has ordered a £6,000 'shed' for his own garden to do the same thing... His point was why go to the pub and pay a fiver for a pint when I can have my mates around for a session, they bring their own kegs and can carry on..

God knows how many of these type places are carrying on!

It's not right, but this is where the legislation has forced them to go. Once lockdown went from the last resort, to the only resort the rise of this type of thing was inevitable. I know of a few round my own place at it too.

There is no real point sticking the head in the sand saying they are selfish....everyone with half a brain cell knows that.

I made a point very early in this thread about how people wouldn't care about Covid because they lived through the troubles in the North. I think it's been shown to be correct, people don't care here. They don't take Covid serious. They feel wronged by the legislation and that is something that probably won't leave them until it comes to their door I suppose.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 11:38:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 04, 2021, 10:52:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 04, 2021, 09:30:48 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 03, 2021, 07:03:47 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 03, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Chris Whitty in the N10 debrief today pretty much said we can expect seasonal winter covid outbreaks.

People spending more time indoors and all the traveling and mixing at Christmas is perfect conditions for Covid to spread.

Not trying to pick a fight here....but that kind of flies in the face of the "Stay at Home" message too.

So homes are a breeding ground for it, fair enough. But are people never supposed to leave or what? Do we weld people indoors like the Chinese did?

I'd a client in the other day, works in an office during the day and taxi's at night, office is full and no proper social distancing like before...

He was telling me that he picked up a fare the other night, up the West and heading back over North Belfast, around midnight, the lad was coming back from his mates 'bar' that he has had erected in his garden, fully functional bar, with all the optics, pumps fridges and even a portaloo type thingy...

He charges his 'friends' £20 and its 'free' drink pool table big tv for the footie also!

The taxi driver says there are loads of these type places around Belfast and beyond, to the point that he has ordered a £6,000 'shed' for his own garden to do the same thing... His point was why go to the pub and pay a fiver for a pint when I can have my mates around for a session, they bring their own kegs and can carry on..

God knows how many of these type places are carrying on!

It's not surprising to hear that.

One things for sure, habits will change when 'normality' returns. People will stay at home drinking more (I think many people did that anyway) and pubs, if they survive through covid, will really struggle as 2m/masks etc will be enforced for a long time. People will say 'f**k that' and get a carry out or do this sort of set up in the shed/garden.

Shopping will and has changed. A lot of people were reliant on big supermarkets delivering their food, and deliveroo their takeaways before covid, but that has grow exponentially during this and will continue afterwards because people see how handy it is and will just continue with it.

Ive been supporting small businesses when I can and will continue as much as possible. But I just don't know how they will cope as this goes on as big businesses takes over.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 04, 2021, 12:04:40 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 04, 2021, 11:08:56 AM
More people were allowed to meet inside than outside lol.

"Allowed to meet" are the key word here. Shops/pubs in dublin were packed over December and alot of them took a somewhat relaxed approach to social distancing and managing crowd numbers. Why do you think numbers increased in Dec?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 04, 2021, 12:08:34 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 11:38:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 04, 2021, 10:52:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 04, 2021, 09:30:48 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 03, 2021, 07:03:47 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 03, 2021, 06:56:45 PM
Chris Whitty in the N10 debrief today pretty much said we can expect seasonal winter covid outbreaks.

People spending more time indoors and all the traveling and mixing at Christmas is perfect conditions for Covid to spread.

Not trying to pick a fight here....but that kind of flies in the face of the "Stay at Home" message too.

So homes are a breeding ground for it, fair enough. But are people never supposed to leave or what? Do we weld people indoors like the Chinese did?

I'd a client in the other day, works in an office during the day and taxi's at night, office is full and no proper social distancing like before...

He was telling me that he picked up a fare the other night, up the West and heading back over North Belfast, around midnight, the lad was coming back from his mates 'bar' that he has had erected in his garden, fully functional bar, with all the optics, pumps fridges and even a portaloo type thingy...

He charges his 'friends' £20 and its 'free' drink pool table big tv for the footie also!

The taxi driver says there are loads of these type places around Belfast and beyond, to the point that he has ordered a £6,000 'shed' for his own garden to do the same thing... His point was why go to the pub and pay a fiver for a pint when I can have my mates around for a session, they bring their own kegs and can carry on..

God knows how many of these type places are carrying on!

It's not surprising to hear that.

One things for sure, habits will change when 'normality' returns. People will stay at home drinking more (I think many people did that anyway) and pubs, if they survive through covid, will really struggle as 2m/masks etc will be enforced for a long time. People will say 'f**k that' and get a carry out or do this sort of set up in the shed/garden.

Shopping will and has changed. A lot of people were reliant on big supermarkets delivering their food, and deliveroo their takeaways before covid, but that has grow exponentially during this and will continue afterwards because people see how handy it is and will just continue with it.

Ive been supporting small businesses when I can and will continue as much as possible. But I just don't know how they will cope as this goes on as big businesses takes over.

Walked through city center today, my god , ghost town, crazy and the sooner the vaccines start to drop the numbers the better...

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 04, 2021, 12:12:15 PM
On the subject of shopping amazon's profits are through the roof and it wasn't like they were shabby before.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 04, 2021, 12:17:13 PM
Sad that local places can't operate a click and collect or a phone and collect.

So wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 04, 2021, 12:56:12 PM
Quote from: five points on February 04, 2021, 10:33:12 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2021, 07:24:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 04:23:58 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2021, 04:15:41 PM


I didn't expect you to.

You're saying people were wary of Covid in June/July/Aug/Sep but not wary of it Oct/Nov/Dec.

Less wary yes.

I'm not sure this is true. For starters, very few people were wearing masks until well into August.  Cavan had 2 serious outbreaks caused by post-county final pissups in September and early October but none after we won the Ulster final in late November.

In my eyes it absolutely is. People distanced much more at the start. They were more wary when meeting people. This has eroded over the summer and people started to think it was beat.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on February 04, 2021, 01:03:23 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 04, 2021, 12:56:12 PM
Quote from: five points on February 04, 2021, 10:33:12 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2021, 07:24:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 03, 2021, 04:23:58 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 03, 2021, 04:15:41 PM


I didn't expect you to.

You're saying people were wary of Covid in June/July/Aug/Sep but not wary of it Oct/Nov/Dec.

Less wary yes.

I'm not sure this is true. For starters, very few people were wearing masks until well into August.  Cavan had 2 serious outbreaks caused by post-county final pissups in September and early October but none after we won the Ulster final in late November.

In my eyes it absolutely is. People distanced much more at the start. They were more wary when meeting people. This has eroded over the summer and people started to think it was beat.

When you put it that way, it is indeed true. People were literally jumping out of each other's way in the early months. That in fairness was OTT and was always going to erode fairly quickly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 01:42:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 04, 2021, 12:17:13 PM
Sad that local places can't operate a click and collect or a phone and collect.

So wrong.

It is. But that is the plan, to crush small businesses. They're making the rules to benefit their big business chums.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 04, 2021, 02:02:10 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 01:42:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 04, 2021, 12:17:13 PM
Sad that local places can't operate a click and collect or a phone and collect.

So wrong.

It is. But that is the plan, to crush small businesses. They're making the rules to benefit their big business chums.

I shouldn't ask but please enlighten me on this tale. The reasoning behind these conspiracy theories are fascinating in themselves.

Are you saying that Amazon/Google/ASOS/Nike etc (to name a few random online retailers) have got together with heads of state all over the world, in countries that operate under different regimes and social standards from communists to capitalists to royal families to liberals and they have followed rules and imposed restrictions so Doris the Hairdresser, Joe the florist, Barry the Bookie and Maggie's nail bar is closed down and put out of business. Ignoring that the heads of state have borrowed Billions to give to these people so that they open up again. Yet these has all remained under wraps.

The business chums included in this plan must have ignored anyone from the hospitality sector or suppliers to the smaller retailers.

In fairness it's a serious operation that Business Chums Inc have pulled off. Credit due to them, must have serious and loyal employees who have held it all together.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on February 04, 2021, 03:04:39 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 04, 2021, 02:02:10 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 01:42:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 04, 2021, 12:17:13 PM
Sad that local places can't operate a click and collect or a phone and collect.

So wrong.

It is. But that is the plan, to crush small businesses. They're making the rules to benefit their big business chums.

I shouldn't ask but please enlighten me on this tale. The reasoning behind these conspiracy theories are fascinating in themselves.

Are you saying that Amazon/Google/ASOS/Nike etc (to name a few random online retailers) have got together with heads of state all over the world, in countries that operate under different regimes and social standards from communists to capitalists to royal families to liberals and they have followed rules and imposed restrictions so Doris the Hairdresser, Joe the florist, Barry the Bookie and Maggie's nail bar is closed down and put out of business. Ignoring that the heads of state have borrowed Billions to give to these people so that they open up again. Yet these has all remained under wraps.

The business chums included in this plan must have ignored anyone from the hospitality sector or suppliers to the smaller retailers.

In fairness it's a serious operation that Business Chums Inc have pulled off. Credit due to them, must have serious and loyal employees who have held it all together.

Not so much a conspiracy as reflecting the reality that Amazon/Google/ASOS/Nike have the money and means to lobby politicians and civil servants, and the likes of Doris the Hairdresser does not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 03:28:42 PM
Some very good points raised here.

https://twitter.com/MlMcNamaraTD/status/1357327141348769798
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 04, 2021, 03:41:53 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55939144

We will see more of these, depending on how this goes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hereiam on February 04, 2021, 03:58:06 PM
Has America been cured of COVID 19. Since Trump left the white house the BBC news etc have stopped reporting on the situation over there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 04, 2021, 03:59:20 PM
They just don't care, China's economy is going to overtake them earlier than predicted over the head of this. So it's play ball.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 04, 2021, 04:09:53 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55939144

Proper Order
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on February 04, 2021, 04:22:22 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 04, 2021, 02:02:10 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 01:42:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 04, 2021, 12:17:13 PM
Sad that local places can't operate a click and collect or a phone and collect.

So wrong.

It is. But that is the plan, to crush small businesses. They're making the rules to benefit their big business chums.

I shouldn't ask but please enlighten me on this tale. The reasoning behind these conspiracy theories are fascinating in themselves.

Are you saying that Amazon/Google/ASOS/Nike etc (to name a few random online retailers) have got together with heads of state all over the world, in countries that operate under different regimes and social standards from communists to capitalists to royal families to liberals and they have followed rules and imposed restrictions so Doris the Hairdresser, Joe the florist, Barry the Bookie and Maggie's nail bar is closed down and put out of business. Ignoring that the heads of state have borrowed Billions to give to these people so that they open up again. Yet these has all remained under wraps.

The business chums included in this plan must have ignored anyone from the hospitality sector or suppliers to the smaller retailers.

In fairness it's a serious operation that Business Chums Inc have pulled off. Credit due to them, must have serious and loyal employees who have held it all together.

It's all big business, big pharma, big governments fault.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 04, 2021, 04:25:34 PM
Somebody must be barred on this thread today... probably having a fit as we post
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 04:51:45 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 04, 2021, 02:02:10 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 01:42:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 04, 2021, 12:17:13 PM
Sad that local places can't operate a click and collect or a phone and collect.

So wrong.

It is. But that is the plan, to crush small businesses. They're making the rules to benefit their big business chums.

I shouldn't ask but please enlighten me on this tale. The reasoning behind these conspiracy theories are fascinating in themselves.

Are you saying that Amazon/Google/ASOS/Nike etc (to name a few random online retailers) have got together with heads of state all over the world, in countries that operate under different regimes and social standards from communists to capitalists to royal families to liberals and they have followed rules and imposed restrictions so Doris the Hairdresser, Joe the florist, Barry the Bookie and Maggie's nail bar is closed down and put out of business. Ignoring that the heads of state have borrowed Billions to give to these people so that they open up again. Yet these has all remained under wraps.

The business chums included in this plan must have ignored anyone from the hospitality sector or suppliers to the smaller retailers.

In fairness it's a serious operation that Business Chums Inc have pulled off. Credit due to them, must have serious and loyal employees who have held it all together.

Look at the tax incentives that big corporations get. Look at the rise of zero hour contracts and the erosion of basic workers rights. It's been raised during the pandemic that lots of people on zero hours have continued to work while positive as they wouldn't get sick pay to stay home and isolate. You have to ask, why zero hour contracts are allowed and which type of businesses use these in huge numbers.

Have heard shoe/clothes shop owners asking why they have to close, while big supermarkets can sell shoes/clothes. Small shops could contain numbers easier than big stores. If you can't see a link with these sort of things, you're walking around with your eyes closed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on February 04, 2021, 04:53:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 04, 2021, 04:25:34 PM
Somebody must be barred on this thread today... probably having a fit as we post

Every time someone puts it up to him he slinks off and then reappears starting with someone else.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 04:58:30 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on February 04, 2021, 03:58:06 PM
Has America been cured of COVID 19. Since Trump left the white house the BBC news etc have stopped reporting on the situation over there.

Joe the Messiah has sorted it all out.

The media did their best to get rid of Trump because he wasn't playing the game. I do believe now he was right, the election was rigged.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 04, 2021, 04:58:48 PM
He's off buying tinfoil hats for Benny and th'other lad ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on February 04, 2021, 05:04:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 04, 2021, 03:28:42 PM
Some very good points raised here.

https://twitter.com/MlMcNamaraTD/status/1357327141348769798

He does. The media feed on negativity and they couldn't care less what its doing to those watching. A lot of journalists have become celebrity like on social media with their wall to wall coverage of this virus and if any of them deliver any positive news RTÉ normally wheel out George Lee to give his daily doom and gloom update. Claire Byrne show live outside the hospital a few weeks ago really took the biscuit!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on February 04, 2021, 05:07:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 04:58:30 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on February 04, 2021, 03:58:06 PM
Has America been cured of COVID 19. Since Trump left the white house the BBC news etc have stopped reporting on the situation over there.

Joe the Messiah has sorted it all out.

The media did their best to get rid of Trump because he wasn't playing the game. I do believe now he was right, the election was rigged.
Not surprised that you would believe such nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 04, 2021, 05:12:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 04:51:45 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 04, 2021, 02:02:10 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 01:42:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 04, 2021, 12:17:13 PM
Sad that local places can't operate a click and collect or a phone and collect.

So wrong.

It is. But that is the plan, to crush small businesses. They're making the rules to benefit their big business chums.

I shouldn't ask but please enlighten me on this tale. The reasoning behind these conspiracy theories are fascinating in themselves.

Are you saying that Amazon/Google/ASOS/Nike etc (to name a few random online retailers) have got together with heads of state all over the world, in countries that operate under different regimes and social standards from communists to capitalists to royal families to liberals and they have followed rules and imposed restrictions so Doris the Hairdresser, Joe the florist, Barry the Bookie and Maggie's nail bar is closed down and put out of business. Ignoring that the heads of state have borrowed Billions to give to these people so that they open up again. Yet these has all remained under wraps.

The business chums included in this plan must have ignored anyone from the hospitality sector or suppliers to the smaller retailers.

In fairness it's a serious operation that Business Chums Inc have pulled off. Credit due to them, must have serious and loyal employees who have held it all together.

Look at the tax incentives that big corporations get. Look at the rise of zero hour contracts and the erosion of basic workers rights. It's been raised during the pandemic that lots of people on zero hours have continued to work while positive as they wouldn't get sick pay to stay home and isolate. You have to ask, why zero hour contracts are allowed and which type of businesses use these in huge numbers.

Have heard shoe/clothes shop owners asking why they have to close, while big supermarkets can sell shoes/clothes. Small shops could contain numbers easier than big stores. If you can't see a link with these sort of things, you're walking around with your eyes closed.

I'm well aware that lobbying goes on and the big players have a lot of sway with what they put on table for "incentives" from the other side, Governments are competing for their business as such. It's not right but I fail to see any connection to that to a pandemic.

Zero hour contracts, pressure to work in pandemic etc, all very relevant and far from been right and sits uncomfortably with myself and many. But these abuses and rules going on long before a pandemic came to the surface and will continue long after.

You point on big supermarkets selling goods while the small high street retailer can't? Don't know about NI or UK but it was one of the big issues down here - Dunnes, Tesco etc all had to close their non-food sections as they only allowed open the food sections. They all treated the same.

Absolute prime conspiracy line - walking round with eyes closed. Second only to "sheep".  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 05:20:22 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 04, 2021, 05:07:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 04:58:30 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on February 04, 2021, 03:58:06 PM
Has America been cured of COVID 19. Since Trump left the white house the BBC news etc have stopped reporting on the situation over there.

Joe the Messiah has sorted it all out.

The media did their best to get rid of Trump because he wasn't playing the game. I do believe now he was right, the election was rigged.
Not surprised that you would believe such nonsense.

Trump stated he intended to run again... Nope, we'll make it law that you can't.

At least I can call out their bullshit on Twitter... Nope, we'll get you banned.

You don't think them going to all that length is a bit strange?

Then Smiley Joe comes in, good sensible man, smiling face. The smiling face of the evil corporation, akin to Smiley Francis.

Say what you like about Trump, but at least he said what he thought. You knew where you stood with him, regardless of whether you agreed with him or not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on February 04, 2021, 05:28:47 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 05:20:22 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 04, 2021, 05:07:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 04:58:30 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on February 04, 2021, 03:58:06 PM
Has America been cured of COVID 19. Since Trump left the white house the BBC news etc have stopped reporting on the situation over there.

Joe the Messiah has sorted it all out.

The media did their best to get rid of Trump because he wasn't playing the game. I do believe now he was right, the election was rigged.
Not surprised that you would believe such nonsense.

Trump stated he intended to run again... Nope, we'll make it law that you can't.

At least I can call out their bullshit on Twitter... Nope, we'll get you banned.

You don't think them going to all that length is a bit strange?

Then Smiley Joe comes in, good sensible man, smiling face. The smiling face of the evil corporation, akin to Smiley Francis.

Say what you like about Trump, but at least he said what he thought. You knew where you stood with him, regardless of whether you agreed with him or not.

Hitler said what he thought.
Mussolini said what he thought.
I'm not comparing Trump to them obviously but it shows how silly the "he says what he thought" line is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on February 04, 2021, 05:31:26 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 04, 2021, 05:28:47 PM

Hitler said what he thought.
Mussolini said what he thought.
I'm not comparing Trump to them obviously but it shows how silly the "he says what he thought" line is.

You are, really.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 05:33:07 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 04, 2021, 05:12:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 04:51:45 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 04, 2021, 02:02:10 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 01:42:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 04, 2021, 12:17:13 PM
Sad that local places can't operate a click and collect or a phone and collect.

So wrong.

It is. But that is the plan, to crush small businesses. They're making the rules to benefit their big business chums.

I shouldn't ask but please enlighten me on this tale. The reasoning behind these conspiracy theories are fascinating in themselves.

Are you saying that Amazon/Google/ASOS/Nike etc (to name a few random online retailers) have got together with heads of state all over the world, in countries that operate under different regimes and social standards from communists to capitalists to royal families to liberals and they have followed rules and imposed restrictions so Doris the Hairdresser, Joe the florist, Barry the Bookie and Maggie's nail bar is closed down and put out of business. Ignoring that the heads of state have borrowed Billions to give to these people so that they open up again. Yet these has all remained under wraps.

The business chums included in this plan must have ignored anyone from the hospitality sector or suppliers to the smaller retailers.

In fairness it's a serious operation that Business Chums Inc have pulled off. Credit due to them, must have serious and loyal employees who have held it all together.

Look at the tax incentives that big corporations get. Look at the rise of zero hour contracts and the erosion of basic workers rights. It's been raised during the pandemic that lots of people on zero hours have continued to work while positive as they wouldn't get sick pay to stay home and isolate. You have to ask, why zero hour contracts are allowed and which type of businesses use these in huge numbers.

Have heard shoe/clothes shop owners asking why they have to close, while big supermarkets can sell shoes/clothes. Small shops could contain numbers easier than big stores. If you can't see a link with these sort of things, you're walking around with your eyes closed.

I'm well aware that lobbying goes on and the big players have a lot of sway with what they put on table for "incentives" from the other side, Governments are competing for their business as such. It's not right but I fail to see any connection to that to a pandemic.

Zero hour contracts, pressure to work in pandemic etc, all very relevant and far from been right and sits uncomfortably with myself and many. But these abuses and rules going on long before a pandemic came to the surface and will continue long after.

You point on big supermarkets selling goods while the small high street retailer can't? Don't know about NI or UK but it was one of the big issues down here - Dunnes, Tesco etc all had to close their non-food sections as they only allowed open the food sections. They all treated the same.

Absolute prime conspiracy line - walking round with eyes closed. Second only to "sheep".  ;D

Yes it will continue. The pandemic has shown up the unfairness of these contracts, and when the country needed everyone to do the right thing (ie. isolate), a lot didn't due to financial reasons. And that is totally understandable if no sick pay is coming your way.

That's not what I was inferring. A lot of the closures/restrictions didn't make any sense. You know that and I know that. But it's just easier for people to shout "conspiracy theorist" than agree with it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 04, 2021, 05:34:22 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 05:20:22 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 04, 2021, 05:07:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 04:58:30 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on February 04, 2021, 03:58:06 PM
Has America been cured of COVID 19. Since Trump left the white house the BBC news etc have stopped reporting on the situation over there.

Joe the Messiah has sorted it all out.

The media did their best to get rid of Trump because he wasn't playing the game. I do believe now he was right, the election was rigged.
Not surprised that you would believe such nonsense.

Trump stated he intended to run again... Nope, we'll make it law that you can't.

At least I can call out their bullshit on Twitter... Nope, we'll get you banned.

You don't think them going to all that length is a bit strange?

Then Smiley Joe comes in, good sensible man, smiling face. The smiling face of the evil corporation, akin to Smiley Francis.

Say what you like about Trump, but at least he said what he thought. You knew where you stood with him, regardless of whether you agreed with him or not.

Trump can run again, the impreachment not going to stick. He has the republicans eating of his hand even when he out if the White House. They afraid of their life he'll split the party.

And big money loved him- financial services, pharma, military hardware etc. He was willing to cut regulations to keep all sweet.

As far from been silenced he has Fox News as his private soapbox 24/7.

America is polarised to extreme sides now and depending where you go for your info you can find mad propaganda and wild conspiracy about the other side.

And one of Trumps big issues was people not knowing where they stood or where he stood. He changed personnel round him at a drop of a hat and took interest in various areas before quickly dropping them - his wall, his new healthcare proposal that never saw light of day, Korea. He was all sound bites and no action.

Can see why you'd be drawn to him.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on February 04, 2021, 05:38:54 PM
Quote from: five points on February 04, 2021, 05:31:26 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 04, 2021, 05:28:47 PM

Hitler said what he thought.
Mussolini said what he thought.
I'm not comparing Trump to them obviously but it shows how silly the "he says what he thought" line is.

You are, really.

*shrugs shoulders*
Meh.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on February 04, 2021, 05:45:05 PM
My father is in hospital on oxygen at the minute with it, it was pretty hairy for a few days but he is (thankfully) stable with a long road of recovery ahead of him. I'm lucky, and I know other posters on the board have been less so.
He always would have been very careful/concerned around covid, and would have always taken precautions.
He's 61, with mild asthma, so I suppose the covid deniers would say this doesn't count as he is over 40 with an underlying condition. But believe me, the virus and the pandemic are very real, there are over 100 people in the same hospital who are in the same boat. Seeing what it has done to him would make anyone think twice before being relaxed about restrictions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on February 04, 2021, 06:01:22 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 04, 2021, 05:20:22 PM
Trump stated he intended to run again... Nope, we'll make it law that you can't.

At least I can call out their bullshit on Twitter... Nope, we'll get you banned.

You don't think them going to all that length is a bit strange?

Then Smiley Joe comes in, good sensible man, smiling face. The smiling face of the evil corporation, akin to Smiley Francis.

Say what you like about Trump, but at least he said what he thought. You knew where you stood with him, regardless of whether you agreed with him or not.
He won't run again because he knows he'll get beaten again.


He got banned from twitter for inciting violence. He was given plenty of warnings to stop and he chose not to heed it.

What he said was lie after lie and only his deluded followers believed him, saying what he thought would be telling the truth.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 04, 2021, 06:19:57 PM
He should have been banned from Twitter way before he was. Biden will probably not be very good but trump is a maniac.

On the subject of COVID though to be honest some of the restrictions and consistency applied can be ridiculous but if this is a conspiracy it is the best planned and executed one ever with being able to get most of the governments in the world to buy in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on February 04, 2021, 06:44:54 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 04, 2021, 05:45:05 PM
My father is in hospital on oxygen at the minute with it, it was pretty hairy for a few days but he is (thankfully) stable with a long road of recovery ahead of him. I'm lucky, and I know other posters on the board have been less so.
He always would have been very careful/concerned around covid, and would have always taken precautions.
He's 61, with mild asthma, so I suppose the covid deniers would say this doesn't count as he is over 40 with an underlying condition. But believe me, the virus and the pandemic are very real, there are over 100 people in the same hospital who are in the same boat. Seeing what it has done to him would make anyone think twice before being relaxed about restrictions.

Tough times for your family Redhand. Hope your father makes a full and speedy recovery.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 04, 2021, 06:53:13 PM
Very best wishes for a speedy and full recovery for your father RedHand88.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 07:30:18 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 04, 2021, 05:45:05 PM
My father is in hospital on oxygen at the minute with it, it was pretty hairy for a few days but he is (thankfully) stable with a long road of recovery ahead of him. I'm lucky, and I know other posters on the board have been less so.
He always would have been very careful/concerned around covid, and would have always taken precautions.
He's 61, with mild asthma, so I suppose the covid deniers would say this doesn't count as he is over 40 with an underlying condition. But believe me, the virus and the pandemic are very real, there are over 100 people in the same hospital who are in the same boat. Seeing what it has done to him would make anyone think twice before being relaxed about restrictions.

Hopefully he's on the right side of it now Redhand - he must be a battler.

It hits home when it's close at hand for sure.  Hopefully he keeps improving.

Are you alliwed in to see him?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on February 04, 2021, 07:44:01 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 04, 2021, 07:30:18 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 04, 2021, 05:45:05 PM
My father is in hospital on oxygen at the minute with it, it was pretty hairy for a few days but he is (thankfully) stable with a long road of recovery ahead of him. I'm lucky, and I know other posters on the board have been less so.
He always would have been very careful/concerned around covid, and would have always taken precautions.
He's 61, with mild asthma, so I suppose the covid deniers would say this doesn't count as he is over 40 with an underlying condition. But believe me, the virus and the pandemic are very real, there are over 100 people in the same hospital who are in the same boat. Seeing what it has done to him would make anyone think twice before being relaxed about restrictions.

Hopefully he's on the right side of it now Redhand - he must be a battler.

It hits home when it's close at hand for sure.  Hopefully he keeps improving.

Are you alliwed in to see him?

No, which is the worst part of it all. Hopefully getting home next week with oxygen. Hes gonna be ok but they said he won't be the same again physically.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on February 04, 2021, 07:44:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 04, 2021, 06:53:13 PM
Very best wishes for a speedy and full recovery for your father RedHand88.

Thank you Sid. I know you weren't so lucky and I'm sorry for your loss.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 04, 2021, 07:46:25 PM
Best wishes to your Dad Redhand, be a worrying time I'm sure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ball Hopper on February 04, 2021, 10:24:34 PM
Be great to get him home, Redhand.  Hoping he comes out of it well and has a swift recovery.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on February 04, 2021, 10:37:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 04, 2021, 05:45:05 PM
My father is in hospital on oxygen at the minute with it, it was pretty hairy for a few days but he is (thankfully) stable with a long road of recovery ahead of him. I'm lucky, and I know other posters on the board have been less so.
He always would have been very careful/concerned around covid, and would have always taken precautions.
He's 61, with mild asthma, so I suppose the covid deniers would say this doesn't count as he is over 40 with an underlying condition. But believe me, the virus and the pandemic are very real, there are over 100 people in the same hospital who are in the same boat. Seeing what it has done to him would make anyone think twice before being relaxed about restrictions.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 05, 2021, 07:09:57 AM
Best wishes to your father Redhand

I know covid is with us and unfortunately had a serious affect on lots unfortunately

I believe it could become a seasonal thing
Say from Dec-February

I think masks inside in shops etc should become a permanent thing ?

With a combination of better weather more vaccines lower numbers the north have to make a decision in 2 weeks whether they will lift any restrictions on the 5th of March

Surely something has to give

The so called R number has been under 1 now for 17 days (0.6-0.8)

Hospital occupies down by 400 last 2 weeks

Again I'll stress I know covid has had a big impact on many and my thoughts go out to all but lockdown really has to start easing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 07:43:48 AM
Seasonal Dec-Feb... is that because of the vaccines or if there hadn't been vaccines would it continue like it has throughout the year?  Like it has
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on February 05, 2021, 08:13:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 07:43:48 AM
Seasonal Dec-Feb... is that because of the vaccines or if there hadn't been vaccines would it continue like it has throughout the year?  Like it has

People tend to spend more time indoors together during cold winter months, so viruses spread more easily.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 08:44:37 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 05, 2021, 08:13:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 07:43:48 AM
Seasonal Dec-Feb... is that because of the vaccines or if there hadn't been vaccines would it continue like it has throughout the year?  Like it has

People tend to spend more time indoors together during cold winter months, so viruses spread more easily.

My point was that this virus was spreading March, April May and June.... relaxed by July August and kicked off again in Sept through to now..

So when will that seasonal period be?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 05, 2021, 08:55:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 07:43:48 AM
Seasonal Dec-Feb... is that because of the vaccines or if there hadn't been vaccines would it continue like it has throughout the year?  Like it has
Numbers last year increased until May then reduced significantly until September when they started to pick up again.
While numbers were low in the northern hemisphere they were v high in the Southern Hemisphere in countries  such as Brazil.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 05, 2021, 09:00:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 08:44:37 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 05, 2021, 08:13:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 07:43:48 AM
Seasonal Dec-Feb... is that because of the vaccines or if there hadn't been vaccines would it continue like it has throughout the year?  Like it has

People tend to spend more time indoors together during cold winter months, so viruses spread more easily.

My point was that this virus was spreading March, April May and June.... relaxed by July August and kicked off again in Sept through to now..

So when will that seasonal period be?

In addition to that the numbers are reducing and given there is a lag they are reducing during what is(or was) peak winter season. The worst winter weather for us anyway has been the last 2ish weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:18:49 PM
Did anyone remember wall to wall coverage of death tolls in Jan 2018?

Did we have reporters camped outside hospitals about the number of fatalities and people dying in Jan 2018?

Did we have daily bulletins about the number of people that died everyday?

It's funny because can't remember a shred of coverage back then?

Did we not care about people dying back in January 2018?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 05, 2021, 12:23:39 PM
Groundhog Day was 2nd February.  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 12:32:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:18:49 PM
Did anyone remember wall to wall coverage of death tools in Jan 2018?

Did we have reporters camped outside hospitals about the number of fatalities and people dying in Jan 2018?

Did we have daily bulletins about the number of people that died everyday?

It's funny because can't remember a shred of coverage back then?

Did we not care about people dying back in January 2018?

Yes there was a thread on it with multiple news headlines .. seeing as your are only 3 years old, you'll have missed it

No, as it was just a serious strain of the flu and the flu jab wasn't as good as before. reporters were in the news rooms reporting it, as there was defo reports on it.

We had daily reports but it only lasted 2/3 months not a full year

Yes everyone that lost loved ones cared about it

It was called the Aussie flu... use the search engine to find it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42602394

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5295083/aussie-flu-uk-maps-news-latest-2018/

https://www.theguardian.com/society/shortcuts/2018/jan/08/bad-day-mate-why-australian-flu-is-tearing-through-the-uk

https://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/news/hertfordshire-news/deadly-aussie-flu-strain-set-993660

There are multiple pages on this via google, knock yourself out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 12:36:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:18:49 PM
Did anyone remember wall to wall coverage of death tolls in Jan 2018?

Did we have reporters camped outside hospitals about the number of fatalities and people dying in Jan 2018?

Did we have daily bulletins about the number of people that died everyday?

It's funny because can't remember a shred of coverage back then?

Did we not care about people dying back in January 2018?
Did we have a lockdown in December 2017 or Jan 2018?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:50:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 12:36:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:18:49 PM
Did anyone remember wall to wall coverage of death tolls in Jan 2018?

Did we have reporters camped outside hospitals about the number of fatalities and people dying in Jan 2018?

Did we have daily bulletins about the number of people that died everyday?

It's funny because can't remember a shred of coverage back then?

Did we not care about people dying back in January 2018?
Did we have a lockdown in December 2017 or Jan 2018?

Didn't hear anyone calling for it. We did have a vaccine though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on February 05, 2021, 01:02:34 PM
So Craigavon a&e is filling up with Covid patients today and they've nowhere to put them, so they are moving patients out of the hospital to Newry.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 01:03:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:50:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 12:36:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:18:49 PM
Did anyone remember wall to wall coverage of death tolls in Jan 2018?

Did we have reporters camped outside hospitals about the number of fatalities and people dying in Jan 2018?

Did we have daily bulletins about the number of people that died everyday?

It's funny because can't remember a shred of coverage back then?

Did we not care about people dying back in January 2018?
Did we have a lockdown in December 2017 or Jan 2018?

Didn't hear anyone calling for it. We did have a vaccine though.

The vaccine didnt work that year, it was discussed..

Are you saying covid is the flu?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:11:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 01:03:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:50:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 12:36:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:18:49 PM
Did anyone remember wall to wall coverage of death tolls in Jan 2018?

Did we have reporters camped outside hospitals about the number of fatalities and people dying in Jan 2018?

Did we have daily bulletins about the number of people that died everyday?

It's funny because can't remember a shred of coverage back then?

Did we not care about people dying back in January 2018?
Did we have a lockdown in December 2017 or Jan 2018?

Didn't hear anyone calling for it. We did have a vaccine though.

The vaccine didnt work that year, it was discussed..

Are you saying covid is the flu?

2,101 deaths happened in January 2018, a peak we will not hit with Covid and nobody batted an eyelid.

I'm talking about casualties and the hypocrisy from the likes of yourself is outrageous. For you, you only care about Covid nothing else.

People should be caring about loss of life, not loss of life due to Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 01:13:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:50:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 12:36:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:18:49 PM
Did anyone remember wall to wall coverage of death tolls in Jan 2018?

Did we have reporters camped outside hospitals about the number of fatalities and people dying in Jan 2018?

Did we have daily bulletins about the number of people that died everyday?

It's funny because can't remember a shred of coverage back then?

Did we not care about people dying back in January 2018?
Did we have a lockdown in December 2017 or Jan 2018?

Didn't hear anyone calling for it. We did have a vaccine though.

Yeah for me that's where your whole argument goes out the window. Comparing a yeah with no lockdowns to a yeah that had global lockdowns. Anything after that is a moot point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:18:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 12:32:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:18:49 PM
Did anyone remember wall to wall coverage of death tools in Jan 2018?

Did we have reporters camped outside hospitals about the number of fatalities and people dying in Jan 2018?

Did we have daily bulletins about the number of people that died everyday?

It's funny because can't remember a shred of coverage back then?

Did we not care about people dying back in January 2018?

Yes there was a thread on it with multiple news headlines .. seeing as your are only 3 years old, you'll have missed it

No, as it was just a serious strain of the flu and the flu jab wasn't as good as before. reporters were in the news rooms reporting it, as there was defo reports on it.

We had daily reports but it only lasted 2/3 months not a full year

Yes everyone that lost loved ones cared about it

It was called the Aussie flu... use the search engine to find it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42602394

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5295083/aussie-flu-uk-maps-news-latest-2018/

https://www.theguardian.com/society/shortcuts/2018/jan/08/bad-day-mate-why-australian-flu-is-tearing-through-the-uk

https://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/news/hertfordshire-news/deadly-aussie-flu-strain-set-993660

There are multiple pages on this via google, knock yourself out

Where is the thread? In your imagination. I found a thread with two replies on it. You didn't seem to care back then when record numbers were dying in January.

Was there wall to wall coverage of the death tolls in Jan 2018? Were news crews lining outside hospitals to talk about the tragedy and devastation like they are with Covid? They weren't - people shrugged their shoulders and moved on.

It's outrageous rank hypocrisy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:19:21 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 01:13:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:50:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 12:36:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:18:49 PM
Did anyone remember wall to wall coverage of death tolls in Jan 2018?

Did we have reporters camped outside hospitals about the number of fatalities and people dying in Jan 2018?

Did we have daily bulletins about the number of people that died everyday?

It's funny because can't remember a shred of coverage back then?

Did we not care about people dying back in January 2018?
Did we have a lockdown in December 2017 or Jan 2018?

Didn't hear anyone calling for it. We did have a vaccine though.

Yeah for me that's where your whole argument goes out the window. Comparing a yeah with no lockdowns to a yeah that had global lockdowns. Anything after that is a moot point.

I'm comparing death tolls with death tolls. More people died in Jan 2018 and people didn't give a toss. Rank hypocrisy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 01:27:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:18:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 12:32:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:18:49 PM
Did anyone remember wall to wall coverage of death tools in Jan 2018?

Did we have reporters camped outside hospitals about the number of fatalities and people dying in Jan 2018?

Did we have daily bulletins about the number of people that died everyday?

It's funny because can't remember a shred of coverage back then?

Did we not care about people dying back in January 2018?

Yes there was a thread on it with multiple news headlines .. seeing as your are only 3 years old, you'll have missed it

No, as it was just a serious strain of the flu and the flu jab wasn't as good as before. reporters were in the news rooms reporting it, as there was defo reports on it.

We had daily reports but it only lasted 2/3 months not a full year

Yes everyone that lost loved ones cared about it

It was called the Aussie flu... use the search engine to find it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42602394

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5295083/aussie-flu-uk-maps-news-latest-2018/

https://www.theguardian.com/society/shortcuts/2018/jan/08/bad-day-mate-why-australian-flu-is-tearing-through-the-uk

https://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/news/hertfordshire-news/deadly-aussie-flu-strain-set-993660

There are multiple pages on this via google, knock yourself out

Where is the thread? In your imagination. I found a thread with two replies on it. You didn't seem to care back then when record numbers were dying in January.

Was there wall to wall coverage of the death tolls in Jan 2018? Were news crews lining outside hospitals to talk about the tragedy and devastation like they are with Covid? They weren't - people shrugged their shoulders and moved on.

It's outrageous rank hypocrisy.

You are so full of shit... I posted multiple news bulletins on the Aussie flu, I've posted a thread on it as well, not two replies. A whole thread on it. You are making a Wally out of yourself every time you post about flu and covid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 01:29:55 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:19:21 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 01:13:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:50:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 12:36:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:18:49 PM
Did anyone remember wall to wall coverage of death tolls in Jan 2018?

Did we have reporters camped outside hospitals about the number of fatalities and people dying in Jan 2018?

Did we have daily bulletins about the number of people that died everyday?

It's funny because can't remember a shred of coverage back then?

Did we not care about people dying back in January 2018?
Did we have a lockdown in December 2017 or Jan 2018?

Didn't hear anyone calling for it. We did have a vaccine though.

Yeah for me that's where your whole argument goes out the window. Comparing a yeah with no lockdowns to a yeah that had global lockdowns. Anything after that is a moot point.

I'm comparing death tolls with death tolls. More people died in Jan 2018 and people didn't give a toss. Rank hypocrisy.

It's rank stupidity you mean. By you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:31:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 01:27:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:18:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 12:32:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:18:49 PM
Did anyone remember wall to wall coverage of death tools in Jan 2018?

Did we have reporters camped outside hospitals about the number of fatalities and people dying in Jan 2018?

Did we have daily bulletins about the number of people that died everyday?

It's funny because can't remember a shred of coverage back then?

Did we not care about people dying back in January 2018?

Yes there was a thread on it with multiple news headlines .. seeing as your are only 3 years old, you'll have missed it

No, as it was just a serious strain of the flu and the flu jab wasn't as good as before. reporters were in the news rooms reporting it, as there was defo reports on it.

We had daily reports but it only lasted 2/3 months not a full year

Yes everyone that lost loved ones cared about it

It was called the Aussie flu... use the search engine to find it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42602394

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5295083/aussie-flu-uk-maps-news-latest-2018/

https://www.theguardian.com/society/shortcuts/2018/jan/08/bad-day-mate-why-australian-flu-is-tearing-through-the-uk

https://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/news/hertfordshire-news/deadly-aussie-flu-strain-set-993660

There are multiple pages on this via google, knock yourself out

Where is the thread? In your imagination. I found a thread with two replies on it. You didn't seem to care back then when record numbers were dying in January.

Was there wall to wall coverage of the death tolls in Jan 2018? Were news crews lining outside hospitals to talk about the tragedy and devastation like they are with Covid? They weren't - people shrugged their shoulders and moved on.

It's outrageous rank hypocrisy.

You are so full of shit... I posted multiple news bulletins on the Aussie flu, I've posted a thread on it as well, not two replies. A whole thread on it. You are making a Wally out of yourself every time you post about flu and covid

This thread you keep harking on about does not exist. Show me this thread. If it exists then it should be here but it's not.

You don't like being challenged of the reels of bullshit you're spitting out right now.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 and you're now trying to disingenuously spout out bullshit. You are making it all up and the lack of substance when you are asked to put up shows that you are a shameless liar to go along with it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:32:32 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 01:29:55 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:19:21 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 01:13:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:50:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 12:36:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:18:49 PM
Did anyone remember wall to wall coverage of death tolls in Jan 2018?

Did we have reporters camped outside hospitals about the number of fatalities and people dying in Jan 2018?

Did we have daily bulletins about the number of people that died everyday?

It's funny because can't remember a shred of coverage back then?

Did we not care about people dying back in January 2018?
Did we have a lockdown in December 2017 or Jan 2018?

Didn't hear anyone calling for it. We did have a vaccine though.

Yeah for me that's where your whole argument goes out the window. Comparing a yeah with no lockdowns to a yeah that had global lockdowns. Anything after that is a moot point.

I'm comparing death tolls with death tolls. More people died in Jan 2018 and people didn't give a toss. Rank hypocrisy.

It's rank stupidity you mean. By you.

Rank hypocrisy as you're excusing record death totals in 2018 while singing off a different hymn sheet now because it's not flu.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 01:34:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:18:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 12:32:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:18:49 PM
Did anyone remember wall to wall coverage of death tools in Jan 2018?

Did we have reporters camped outside hospitals about the number of fatalities and people dying in Jan 2018?

Did we have daily bulletins about the number of people that died everyday?

It's funny because can't remember a shred of coverage back then?

Did we not care about people dying back in January 2018?

Yes there was a thread on it with multiple news headlines .. seeing as your are only 3 years old, you'll have missed it

No, as it was just a serious strain of the flu and the flu jab wasn't as good as before. reporters were in the news rooms reporting it, as there was defo reports on it.

We had daily reports but it only lasted 2/3 months not a full year

Yes everyone that lost loved ones cared about it

It was called the Aussie flu... use the search engine to find it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42602394

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5295083/aussie-flu-uk-maps-news-latest-2018/

https://www.theguardian.com/society/shortcuts/2018/jan/08/bad-day-mate-why-australian-flu-is-tearing-through-the-uk

https://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/news/hertfordshire-news/deadly-aussie-flu-strain-set-993660

There are multiple pages on this via google, knock yourself out

Where is the thread? In your imagination. I found a thread with two replies on it. You didn't seem to care back then when record numbers were dying in January.

Was there wall to wall coverage of the death tolls in Jan 2018? Were news crews lining outside hospitals to talk about the tragedy and devastation like they are with Covid? They weren't - people shrugged their shoulders and moved on.

It's outrageous rank hypocrisy.

I've re posted the thread ffs! You are unreal.. it's on the front page called Aussie flu..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 01:35:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:32:32 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 01:29:55 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:19:21 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 01:13:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:50:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 12:36:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 12:18:49 PM
Did anyone remember wall to wall coverage of death tolls in Jan 2018?

Did we have reporters camped outside hospitals about the number of fatalities and people dying in Jan 2018?

Did we have daily bulletins about the number of people that died everyday?

It's funny because can't remember a shred of coverage back then?

Did we not care about people dying back in January 2018?
Did we have a lockdown in December 2017 or Jan 2018?

Didn't hear anyone calling for it. We did have a vaccine though.

Yeah for me that's where your whole argument goes out the window. Comparing a yeah with no lockdowns to a yeah that had global lockdowns. Anything after that is a moot point.

I'm comparing death tolls with death tolls. More people died in Jan 2018 and people didn't give a toss. Rank hypocrisy.

It's rank stupidity you mean. By you.

Rank hypocrisy as you're excusing record death totals in 2018 while singing off a different hymn sheet now because it's not flu.
Your reinforcing your stupidity. If you don't understand best left alone. I've enough sh!te home schooling my 8 year old than to start with you again,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:37:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 01:35:07 PM

Your reinforcing your stupidity. If you don't understand best left alone. I've enough sh!te home schooling my 8 year old than to start with you again,

I'm reinforcing your ignorance and inability to look at facts that don't suit your agenda.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 - a peak figure Covid has not reached yet and you're excusing it as acceptable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 01:41:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:37:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 01:35:07 PM

Your reinforcing your stupidity. If you don't understand best left alone. I've enough sh!te home schooling my 8 year old than to start with you again,

I'm reinforcing your ignorance and inability to look at facts that don't suit your agenda.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 - a peak figure Covid has not reached yet and you're excusing it as acceptable.

You still don't get it. Your comparison is a none starter. I've explained why. I know it knocked the shi!te out of your argument. But just ignoring it is a bit pointless.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 01:44:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:37:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 01:35:07 PM

Your reinforcing your stupidity. If you don't understand best left alone. I've enough sh!te home schooling my 8 year old than to start with you again,

I'm reinforcing your ignorance and inability to look at facts that don't suit your agenda.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 - a peak figure Covid has not reached yet and you're excusing it as acceptable.

Are these figures Uk or Ireland? As there are some counties you don't care less for
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:45:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 01:44:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:37:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 01:35:07 PM

Your reinforcing your stupidity. If you don't understand best left alone. I've enough sh!te home schooling my 8 year old than to start with you again,

I'm reinforcing your ignorance and inability to look at facts that don't suit your agenda.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 - a peak figure Covid has not reached yet and you're excusing it as acceptable.




Are these figures Uk or Ireland? As there are some counties you don't care less for

O6.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:45:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 01:44:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:37:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 01:35:07 PM

Your reinforcing your stupidity. If you don't understand best left alone. I've enough sh!te home schooling my 8 year old than to start with you again,

I'm reinforcing your ignorance and inability to look at facts that don't suit your agenda.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 - a peak figure Covid has not reached yet and you're excusing it as acceptable.




Are these figures Uk or Ireland? As there are some counties you don't care less for

O6.

Can you put that figure up with a link please
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 05, 2021, 01:54:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:45:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 01:44:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:37:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 01:35:07 PM

Your reinforcing your stupidity. If you don't understand best left alone. I've enough sh!te home schooling my 8 year old than to start with you again,

I'm reinforcing your ignorance and inability to look at facts that don't suit your agenda.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 - a peak figure Covid has not reached yet and you're excusing it as acceptable.




Are these figures Uk or Ireland? As there are some counties you don't care less for

O6.

You've been pointed to the ROI figures for 2018 and the whole flu season was responsible for under 200 tragic deaths. This was considered and reported as a very high cost of life in a flu season.

Over 1,000 in January alone have lost their life with Covid DESPITE unprecedented restrictions or 10 months.

Can you please give your opinion on this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 02:27:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:45:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 01:44:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:37:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 01:35:07 PM

Your reinforcing your stupidity. If you don't understand best left alone. I've enough sh!te home schooling my 8 year old than to start with you again,

I'm reinforcing your ignorance and inability to look at facts that don't suit your agenda.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 - a peak figure Covid has not reached yet and you're excusing it as acceptable.




Are these figures Uk or Ireland? As there are some counties you don't care less for

O6.

Can you put that figure up with a link please

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 02:32:58 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 05, 2021, 01:54:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:45:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 01:44:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:37:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 01:35:07 PM

Your reinforcing your stupidity. If you don't understand best left alone. I've enough sh!te home schooling my 8 year old than to start with you again,

I'm reinforcing your ignorance and inability to look at facts that don't suit your agenda.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 - a peak figure Covid has not reached yet and you're excusing it as acceptable.




Are these figures Uk or Ireland? As there are some counties you don't care less for

O6.

You've been pointed to the ROI figures for 2018 and the whole flu season was responsible for under 200 tragic deaths. This was considered and reported as a very high cost of life in a flu season.

Over 1,000 in January alone have lost their life with Covid DESPITE unprecedented restrictions or 10 months.

Can you please give your opinion on this?

I can. In the Free State:

Over 50% of the deaths are nursing home residents.

Over 1/3 of current Covid cases in hospitals were caught in hospital.

The blame lies with a dysfunctional, not fit for purpose health system.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 02:36:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 02:27:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:45:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 01:44:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:37:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 01:35:07 PM

Your reinforcing your stupidity. If you don't understand best left alone. I've enough sh!te home schooling my 8 year old than to start with you again,

I'm reinforcing your ignorance and inability to look at facts that don't suit your agenda.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 - a peak figure Covid has not reached yet and you're excusing it as acceptable.




Are these figures Uk or Ireland? As there are some counties you don't care less for

O6.

Can you put that figure up with a link please

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls

No I'm looking for the deaths associated with the Aussie flu. Is that giving me the total for deaths? Like any type of death?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 05, 2021, 02:38:08 PM
That's not an answer. The majority of flu deaths also in the same care homes and age category. Even allowing for 50% of deaths ( can you post source for this) means that over 500 deaths have been caused by Covid in January alone despite all the restrictions for near 10 months. I'll repeat that flu cause under deaths in the 5 month flu season 2017/18 including those in care homes.

Your argument as weak as water.

Health system far from perfect as we know but they have saved far more life's in current times than they can be responsibly for.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 02:39:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 02:36:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 02:27:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 01:50:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:45:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 01:44:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 01:37:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 01:35:07 PM

Your reinforcing your stupidity. If you don't understand best left alone. I've enough sh!te home schooling my 8 year old than to start with you again,

I'm reinforcing your ignorance and inability to look at facts that don't suit your agenda.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 - a peak figure Covid has not reached yet and you're excusing it as acceptable.




Are these figures Uk or Ireland? As there are some counties you don't care less for

O6.

Can you put that figure up with a link please

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls

No I'm looking for the deaths associated with the Aussie flu. Is that giving me the total for deaths? Like any type of death?

We didn't test for Aussie flu.

I think you have let the mask slip there, record death numbers and you only seem to care about people who died from Covid - not the number of lives lost. That's telling.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 02:40:51 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 05, 2021, 02:38:08 PM
That's not an answer. The majority of flu deaths also in the same care homes and age category. Even allowing for 50% of deaths ( can you post source for this) means that over 500 deaths have been caused by Covid in January alone despite all the restrictions for near 10 months. I'll repeat that flu cause under deaths in the 5 month flu season 2017/18 including those in care homes.

Your argument as weak as water.

Health system far from perfect as we know but they have saved far more life's in current times than they can be responsibly for.

My argument is rock solid. What is telling is that you don't think that is absolutely scandalous that your government and health service's negligence costs thousands of lives.

These issues have been flagged from the INMO for years - check up their complaints the winter preceding the arrival of Covid where you had record numbers lying on hospital trolleys waiting for a bed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 02:41:27 PM
So you don't have those figures Angelo? No? Or yes?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 02:44:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 02:41:27 PM
So you don't have those figures Angelo? No? Or yes?

We don't test for flu.

The medical experts pointed to seasonal flu as the reason for those excess deaths so maybe you should query them on it.

What is telling that you think it's acceptable 2,101 people die as long as Covid didn't play a role.

That is a really insightful admission I have garnered from you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 05, 2021, 02:45:27 PM
How are you lads still having the same row every day for about 6 weeks now. Angelo is leading you to the river and making you drink  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 02:48:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 02:44:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 02:41:27 PM
So you don't have those figures Angelo? No? Or yes?

We don't test for flu.

The medical experts pointed to seasonal flu as the reason for those excess deaths so maybe you should query them on it.

What is telling that you think it's acceptable 2,101 people die as long as Covid didn't play a role.

That is a really insightful admission I have garnered from you.

So 600 deaths more than the year before which was an average year?

You're not interested in anything but your argument.. mental health, you don't give a shit about, unless it suits your opinion, as you have not posted one thought on that thread
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 05, 2021, 02:49:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 02:40:51 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 05, 2021, 02:38:08 PM
That's not an answer. The majority of flu deaths also in the same care homes and age category. Even allowing for 50% of deaths ( can you post source for this) means that over 500 deaths have been caused by Covid in January alone despite all the restrictions for near 10 months. I'll repeat that flu cause under deaths in the 5 month flu season 2017/18 including those in care homes.

Your argument as weak as water.

Health system far from perfect as we know but they have saved far more life's in current times than they can be responsibly for.

My argument is rock solid. What is telling is that you don't think that is absolutely scandalous that your government and health service's negligence costs thousands of lives.

These issues have been flagged from the INMO for years - check up their complaints the winter preceding the arrival of Covid where you had record numbers lying on hospital trolleys waiting for a bed.

It's well known the annual trolley crisis and everything associated with it. It's a massive point come election time and talking point throughout the year for a wide range of services and at all times - not just winter flu surge.

Everyone wants it run better and the vast resources thrown at it have to be applied and managed better. It's why there is a massive mistrust of all Gov parties in ROI as they've always been heavily criticised for this.

No one has said otherwise.

What can be said is that the actual public health and health care workers, be it covid, winter flu or whenever make the absolute best if the resources available to save countless lives.


You seem to want to blame everyone for everything cause you can't get to Benidorm to wear you Celtic vest on the beach.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 02:56:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 05, 2021, 02:45:27 PM
How are you lads still having the same row every day for about 6 weeks now. Angelo is leading you to the river and making you drink  ;D

They keep unraveling when they try to justify the 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 while maintaining that lockdowns are justified now because its Covid. If similar figures die from something else it's acceptable we take no preventative measures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 05, 2021, 02:59:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 02:56:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 05, 2021, 02:45:27 PM
How are you lads still having the same row every day for about 6 weeks now. Angelo is leading you to the river and making you drink  ;D

They keep unraveling when they try to justify the 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 while maintaining that lockdowns are justified now because its Covid. If similar figures die from something else it's acceptable we take no preventative measures.
No unraveling to be done. I just enjoy pointing out that your whole comparison is flawed. And enjoy watching you try to divert attention away from the fact that there was no lockdown in 2018. Passes a few minutes anyway before the wkend.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 03:04:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 02:56:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 05, 2021, 02:45:27 PM
How are you lads still having the same row every day for about 6 weeks now. Angelo is leading you to the river and making you drink  ;D

They keep unraveling when they try to justify the 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 while maintaining that lockdowns are justified now because its Covid. If similar figures die from something else it's acceptable we take no preventative measures.

Are all the figures based on Aussie flu? We had 2,000 extra deaths for the year 2020 over 2018, the year 2017 was same numbers as 2018 for the year,

Your deflection is impressive, I think you believe covid is some seasonal flu, though its been here for over a year
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 03:10:09 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 05, 2021, 02:49:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 02:40:51 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 05, 2021, 02:38:08 PM
That's not an answer. The majority of flu deaths also in the same care homes and age category. Even allowing for 50% of deaths ( can you post source for this) means that over 500 deaths have been caused by Covid in January alone despite all the restrictions for near 10 months. I'll repeat that flu cause under deaths in the 5 month flu season 2017/18 including those in care homes.

Your argument as weak as water.

Health system far from perfect as we know but they have saved far more life's in current times than they can be responsibly for.

My argument is rock solid. What is telling is that you don't think that is absolutely scandalous that your government and health service's negligence costs thousands of lives.

These issues have been flagged from the INMO for years - check up their complaints the winter preceding the arrival of Covid where you had record numbers lying on hospital trolleys waiting for a bed.

It's well known the annual trolley crisis and everything associated with it. It's a massive point come election time and talking point throughout the year for a wide range of services and at all times - not just winter flu surge.

Everyone wants it run better and the vast resources thrown at it have to be applied and managed better. It's why there is a massive mistrust of all Gov parties in ROI as they've always been heavily criticised for this.

No one has said otherwise.

What can be said is that the actual public health and health care workers, be it covid, winter flu or whenever make the absolute best if the resources available to save countless lives.


You seem to want to blame everyone for everything cause you can't get to Benidorm to wear you Celtic vest on the beach.

The INMO have pointed the fingers at the govt and HSE for the outbreaks in hospitals.

50% of deaths occurred in nursing home residents which points to failures from govt and the health service.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 03:12:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 03:04:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 02:56:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 05, 2021, 02:45:27 PM
How are you lads still having the same row every day for about 6 weeks now. Angelo is leading you to the river and making you drink  ;D

They keep unraveling when they try to justify the 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 while maintaining that lockdowns are justified now because its Covid. If similar figures die from something else it's acceptable we take no preventative measures.

Are all the figures based on Aussie flu? We had 2,000 extra deaths for the year 2020 over 2018, the year 2017 was same numbers as 2018 for the year,

Your deflection is impressive, I think you believe covid is some seasonal flu, though its been here for over a year

What matters is amounts of lives.

When we had record amounts of lives lost in a month you thought it was completely acceptable that we did nothing to prevent them.

It's hard to find the consistency in your justification of record death totals to that of Covid.

The medical professionals cited seasonal flu as the main cause in record deaths in Jan 18, the reaction was to shrug our shoulders and say "awk, these things happen".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 05, 2021, 03:29:03 PM
You do know a very large % of nursing homes in ROI are privately owned and operated?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 03:32:31 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 05, 2021, 03:29:03 PM
You do know a very large % of nursing homes in ROI are privately owned and operated?

And who oversees and regulates them?

Whose decision is it to turn healthcare over to the private sector so private interests can make profit from it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 03:35:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 03:12:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 03:04:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 02:56:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 05, 2021, 02:45:27 PM
How are you lads still having the same row every day for about 6 weeks now. Angelo is leading you to the river and making you drink  ;D

They keep unraveling when they try to justify the 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 while maintaining that lockdowns are justified now because its Covid. If similar figures die from something else it's acceptable we take no preventative measures.

Are all the figures based on Aussie flu? We had 2,000 extra deaths for the year 2020 over 2018, the year 2017 was same numbers as 2018 for the year,

Your deflection is impressive, I think you believe covid is some seasonal flu, though its been here for over a year

What matters is amounts of lives.

When we had record amounts of lives lost in a month you thought it was completely acceptable that we did nothing to prevent them.

It's hard to find the consistency in your justification of record death totals to that of Covid.

The medical professionals cited seasonal flu as the main cause in record deaths in Jan 18, the reaction was to shrug our shoulders and say "awk, these things happen".

Can you please post were I said the death rate was acceptable? In fact during that year there was a thread about it, and we discussed it and how it left a young man dead here in the north. There wasn't one post saying "sure its grand, these things happen"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 05, 2021, 03:42:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 03:32:31 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 05, 2021, 03:29:03 PM
You do know a very large % of nursing homes in ROI are privately owned and operated?

And who oversees and regulates them?

Whose decision is it to turn healthcare over to the private sector so private interests can make profit from it?

Governments regulate everything Wee Man from the food you eat to the roads you drive on and allow plenty make a profit on them.

Lots of people go into Care homes under choice of family and relatives who can't give them the care they need, provides reassurance for the family or you can use home care services.  Happens in every developed country in the world Wee Man with options available for everyone. It can be subsided by Governments or paid privately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on February 05, 2021, 03:46:11 PM
You're all gonna love this one but got an email from our supply chain telling us that electronic components are going out on very long lead times due to shortages in supply and get this, the German Car industry have approached the Taiwanese Gov. for them to increase chip production in exchange for Covid Vaccines;

https://wccftech.com/tsmcs-chip-for-vaccine-swap-to-delay-integrated-circuit-chip-production/amp/ (https://wccftech.com/tsmcs-chip-for-vaccine-swap-to-delay-integrated-circuit-chip-production/amp/)

The Germans have certainly got their priorities a bit skewed..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 03:53:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 03:35:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 03:12:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 03:04:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 02:56:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 05, 2021, 02:45:27 PM
How are you lads still having the same row every day for about 6 weeks now. Angelo is leading you to the river and making you drink  ;D

They keep unraveling when they try to justify the 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 while maintaining that lockdowns are justified now because its Covid. If similar figures die from something else it's acceptable we take no preventative measures.

Are all the figures based on Aussie flu? We had 2,000 extra deaths for the year 2020 over 2018, the year 2017 was same numbers as 2018 for the year,

Your deflection is impressive, I think you believe covid is some seasonal flu, though its been here for over a year

What matters is amounts of lives.

When we had record amounts of lives lost in a month you thought it was completely acceptable that we did nothing to prevent them.

It's hard to find the consistency in your justification of record death totals to that of Covid.

The medical professionals cited seasonal flu as the main cause in record deaths in Jan 18, the reaction was to shrug our shoulders and say "awk, these things happen".

Can you please post were I said the death rate was acceptable? In fact during that year there was a thread about it, and we discussed it and how it left a young man dead here in the north. There wasn't one post saying "sure its grand, these things happen"

I didn't hear anyone saying that we should lockdown or do anything to stop those lives been lost. If you can point to a post where preventative measures on a societal basis were proposed then I'm all ears.

On one hand we accepted record levels of death in Jan 2018 and did nothing to prevent it, it was scant media coverage - nothing compared to Covid. It was an acceptable consequence to the economy, jobs, sports, liberties etc.

So why are we allowing people to die from other causes so willingly and not Covid. We have 1.3m road deaths globally every year. Should we ban cars or is 1.3m road deaths an acceptable figure? Why do we take half measures on road deaths but won't take them on Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 03:56:43 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 05, 2021, 03:42:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 03:32:31 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 05, 2021, 03:29:03 PM
You do know a very large % of nursing homes in ROI are privately owned and operated?

And who oversees and regulates them?

Whose decision is it to turn healthcare over to the private sector so private interests can make profit from it?

Governments regulate everything Wee Man from the food you eat to the roads you drive on and allow plenty make a profit on them.

Lots of people go into Care homes under choice of family and relatives who can't give them the care they need, provides reassurance for the family or you can use home care services.  Happens in every developed country in the world Wee Man with options available for everyone. It can be subsided by Governments or paid privately.

So you're effectively trying to deflect blame from government when they:

a) Hawked out health care to private interests to run it at a profit
b) Failed to regulate the private healthcare industry efficiently which lead to massive outbreaks in nursing homes and huge levels of fatalities.

Every developed country in the world doesn't hawk off their health care to the private sector. In fact you will find your state is the one of the only in Europe that does not have universal healthcare.

So we are seeing you shifting the blame away from those who should be responsible and accountable.

Interesting insight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 05, 2021, 04:06:20 PM
Any chance this thread could be closed
Or
That poster blocked from posting on it.
If not can the rest of ye PLEASE put him/her on ignore or at least stop quoting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on February 05, 2021, 04:06:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 03:56:43 PM

So you're effectively trying to deflect blame from government when they:

a) Hawked out health care to private interests to run it at a profit
b) Failed to regulate the private healthcare industry efficiently which lead to massive outbreaks in nursing homes and huge levels of fatalities.


It wasn't a regulation failure. This time last year, and indeed all spring, nursing homes across the country were crying out for PPE which was nowhere to be found. And the government did nothing. Apart from moving patients from infected hospitals into the same nursing homes. With predictable results.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 04:08:10 PM
The poster who took gleeful delight in posting death figures comparing north and south now wants another poster banned from posting in this thread.

You could not make it up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 04:10:30 PM
Quote from: five points on February 05, 2021, 04:06:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 03:56:43 PM

So you're effectively trying to deflect blame from government when they:

a) Hawked out health care to private interests to run it at a profit
b) Failed to regulate the private healthcare industry efficiently which lead to massive outbreaks in nursing homes and huge levels of fatalities.


It wasn't a regulation failure. This time last year, and indeed all spring, nursing homes across the country were crying out for PPE which was nowhere to be found. And the government did nothing. Apart from moving patients from infected hospitals into the same nursing homes. With predictable results.

Not just nursing homes it should be noted, the INMO released a statement last week or the week before that the hospital outbreaks were related to lack of proper PPE being made available to healthcare worker.

But 50% of deaths relate to nursing homes which is pretty scandalous.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 05, 2021, 04:11:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 05, 2021, 04:06:20 PM
Any chance this thread could be closed
Or
That poster blocked from posting on it.
If not can the rest of ye PLEASE put him/her on ignore or at least stop quoting.

You're right.

Hard to talk to someone with such a level of that ignorance that can't see any level of reasonable debate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on February 05, 2021, 04:15:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 04:10:30 PM

Not just nursing homes it should be noted, the INMO released a statement last week or the week before that the hospital outbreaks were related to lack of proper PPE being made available to healthcare worker.


Yep, great regulation there though. ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on February 05, 2021, 04:17:11 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 05, 2021, 04:11:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 05, 2021, 04:06:20 PM
Any chance this thread could be closed
Or
That poster blocked from posting on it.
If not can the rest of ye PLEASE put him/her on ignore or at least stop quoting.

You're right.

Hard to talk to someone with such a level of that ignorance that can't see any level of reasonable debate.

Totally agree, he's been on ignore for me for a long time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 04:46:15 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 05, 2021, 04:17:11 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 05, 2021, 04:11:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 05, 2021, 04:06:20 PM
Any chance this thread could be closed
Or
That poster blocked from posting on it.
If not can the rest of ye PLEASE put him/her on ignore or at least stop quoting.

You're right.

Hard to talk to someone with such a level of that ignorance that can't see any level of reasonable debate.

Totally agree, he's been on ignore for me for a long time.

Rossfan
Lenny
dublin7

I'm seeing a common denominator in the type of poster who has to put me on ignore. The bottom of the matter is these posters were utterly hapless when presented with facts and logic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 05, 2021, 05:43:33 PM
Milltown the virus was barely here in March April May and June
Stop throwing out words that are not true
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 05, 2021, 05:55:22 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 05, 2021, 05:43:33 PM
Milltown the virus was barely here in March April May and June
Stop throwing out words that are not true
The virus was in the south from March onwards. Did the virus stop at the border at not make it into NI?

We had lockdowns in the south in March/April and had to let some staff go due to the drop in business
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 05, 2021, 06:13:01 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 05, 2021, 04:17:11 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 05, 2021, 04:11:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 05, 2021, 04:06:20 PM
Any chance this thread could be closed
Or
That poster blocked from posting on it.
If not can the rest of ye PLEASE put him/her on ignore or at least stop quoting.

You're right.

Hard to talk to someone with such a level of that ignorance that can't see any level of reasonable debate.

Totally agree, he's been on ignore for me for a long time.
He's gaslighting the discussion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 05, 2021, 06:13:48 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 05, 2021, 05:43:33 PM
Milltown the virus was barely here in March April May and June
Stop throwing out words that are not true

Eh?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on February 05, 2021, 06:17:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 05, 2021, 06:13:48 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 05, 2021, 05:43:33 PM
Milltown the virus was barely here in March April May and June
Stop throwing out words that are not true

Eh?

Short term memory loss for smurfy it seems
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 06:19:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 03:53:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 03:35:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 03:12:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 03:04:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 02:56:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 05, 2021, 02:45:27 PM
How are you lads still having the same row every day for about 6 weeks now. Angelo is leading you to the river and making you drink  ;D

They keep unraveling when they try to justify the 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 while maintaining that lockdowns are justified now because its Covid. If similar figures die from something else it's acceptable we take no preventative measures.

Are all the figures based on Aussie flu? We had 2,000 extra deaths for the year 2020 over 2018, the year 2017 was same numbers as 2018 for the year,

Your deflection is impressive, I think you believe covid is some seasonal flu, though its been here for over a year

What matters is amounts of lives.

When we had record amounts of lives lost in a month you thought it was completely acceptable that we did nothing to prevent them.

It's hard to find the consistency in your justification of record death totals to that of Covid.

The medical professionals cited seasonal flu as the main cause in record deaths in Jan 18, the reaction was to shrug our shoulders and say "awk, these things happen".

Can you please post were I said the death rate was acceptable? In fact during that year there was a thread about it, and we discussed it and how it left a young man dead here in the north. There wasn't one post saying "sure its grand, these things happen"

I didn't hear anyone saying that we should lockdown or do anything to stop those lives been lost. If you can point to a post where preventative measures on a societal basis were proposed then I'm all ears.

On one hand we accepted record levels of death in Jan 2018 and did nothing to prevent it, it was scant media coverage - nothing compared to Covid. It was an acceptable consequence to the economy, jobs, sports, liberties etc.

So why are we allowing people to die from other causes so willingly and not Covid. We have 1.3m road deaths globally every year. Should we ban cars or is 1.3m road deaths an acceptable figure? Why do we take half measures on road deaths but won't take them on Covid?

So you can't post where i said the death rate is acceptable? Very good
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 06:23:49 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 05, 2021, 06:17:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 05, 2021, 06:13:48 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 05, 2021, 05:43:33 PM
Milltown the virus was barely here in March April May and June
Stop throwing out words that are not true

Eh?

Short term memory loss for smurfy it seems

I'm nearly sure I was put on lockdown in March..someone is on the glue
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 05, 2021, 06:26:41 PM
I said it was barely here
You are going ok as if it was rampant in spring and summer
Very low numbers
This is a seasonal virus
Nov - Feb
That was what I was saying ok
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 06:30:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 06:19:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 03:53:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 03:35:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 03:12:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 03:04:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 02:56:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 05, 2021, 02:45:27 PM
How are you lads still having the same row every day for about 6 weeks now. Angelo is leading you to the river and making you drink  ;D

They keep unraveling when they try to justify the 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 while maintaining that lockdowns are justified now because its Covid. If similar figures die from something else it's acceptable we take no preventative measures.

Are all the figures based on Aussie flu? We had 2,000 extra deaths for the year 2020 over 2018, the year 2017 was same numbers as 2018 for the year,

Your deflection is impressive, I think you believe covid is some seasonal flu, though its been here for over a year

What matters is amounts of lives.

When we had record amounts of lives lost in a month you thought it was completely acceptable that we did nothing to prevent them.

It's hard to find the consistency in your justification of record death totals to that of Covid.

The medical professionals cited seasonal flu as the main cause in record deaths in Jan 18, the reaction was to shrug our shoulders and say "awk, these things happen".

Can you please post were I said the death rate was acceptable? In fact during that year there was a thread about it, and we discussed it and how it left a young man dead here in the north. There wasn't one post saying "sure its grand, these things happen"

I didn't hear anyone saying that we should lockdown or do anything to stop those lives been lost. If you can point to a post where preventative measures on a societal basis were proposed then I'm all ears.

On one hand we accepted record levels of death in Jan 2018 and did nothing to prevent it, it was scant media coverage - nothing compared to Covid. It was an acceptable consequence to the economy, jobs, sports, liberties etc.

So why are we allowing people to die from other causes so willingly and not Covid. We have 1.3m road deaths globally every year. Should we ban cars or is 1.3m road deaths an acceptable figure? Why do we take half measures on road deaths but won't take them on Covid?

So you can't post where i said the death rate is acceptable? Very good

Well you're at odds with yourself if you're saying it wasn't. Where did you suggest proactive measures it stop the loss of lives then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 05, 2021, 06:35:42 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 05, 2021, 06:26:41 PM
I said it was barely here
You are going ok as if it was rampant in spring and summer
Very low numbers
This is a seasonal virus
Nov - Feb
That was what I was saying ok

Patrick's day celebrations were cancelled all over Ireland in March and that was March 17th in the middle of the month. The first lockdown was also ordered in the south in March. When do you think Covid actually arrived in Ireland?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 06:57:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 06:30:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 06:19:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 03:53:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 03:35:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 03:12:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 03:04:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 05, 2021, 02:56:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 05, 2021, 02:45:27 PM
How are you lads still having the same row every day for about 6 weeks now. Angelo is leading you to the river and making you drink  ;D

They keep unraveling when they try to justify the 2,101 deaths in Jan 2018 while maintaining that lockdowns are justified now because its Covid. If similar figures die from something else it's acceptable we take no preventative measures.

Are all the figures based on Aussie flu? We had 2,000 extra deaths for the year 2020 over 2018, the year 2017 was same numbers as 2018 for the year,

Your deflection is impressive, I think you believe covid is some seasonal flu, though its been here for over a year

What matters is amounts of lives.

When we had record amounts of lives lost in a month you thought it was completely acceptable that we did nothing to prevent them.

It's hard to find the consistency in your justification of record death totals to that of Covid.

The medical professionals cited seasonal flu as the main cause in record deaths in Jan 18, the reaction was to shrug our shoulders and say "awk, these things happen".

Can you please post were I said the death rate was acceptable? In fact during that year there was a thread about it, and we discussed it and how it left a young man dead here in the north. There wasn't one post saying "sure its grand, these things happen"

I didn't hear anyone saying that we should lockdown or do anything to stop those lives been lost. If you can point to a post where preventative measures on a societal basis were proposed then I'm all ears.

On one hand we accepted record levels of death in Jan 2018 and did nothing to prevent it, it was scant media coverage - nothing compared to Covid. It was an acceptable consequence to the economy, jobs, sports, liberties etc.

So why are we allowing people to die from other causes so willingly and not Covid. We have 1.3m road deaths globally every year. Should we ban cars or is 1.3m road deaths an acceptable figure? Why do we take half measures on road deaths but won't take them on Covid?

So you can't post where i said the death rate is acceptable? Very good

Well you're at odds with yourself if you're saying it wasn't. Where did you suggest proactive measures it stop the loss of lives then?

So you claimed I said it but can't find it? Then say I'm at odds with myself. Brilliant
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on February 05, 2021, 07:02:50 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 05, 2021, 05:43:33 PM
Milltown the virus was barely here in March April May and June
Stop throwing out words that are not true

The ROI had 1161 covid deaths in April and many that died that month would have picked the virus up in March. If we had tested as many then as now the weekly case counts would be simliar to the January numbers. The infection rate decreased a lot in May, June but we still had over 500 deaths those months.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on February 05, 2021, 07:31:21 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 05, 2021, 05:43:33 PM
Milltown the virus was barely here in March April May and June
Stop throwing out words that are not true

...... eh???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2021, 07:37:27 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 05, 2021, 07:31:21 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 05, 2021, 05:43:33 PM
Milltown the virus was barely here in March April May and June
Stop throwing out words that are not true

...... eh???

Yes the glue is strong with this one!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on February 06, 2021, 11:14:14 AM
Can u see kids coming back to underage in their droves when lockdown ends, or do you think it has broken the link for some/many and they've got used to other past times with possibly less stress?  Thinking of the parents as well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 06, 2021, 11:19:43 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on February 06, 2021, 11:14:14 AM
Can u see kids coming back to underage in their droves when lockdown ends, or do you think it has broken the link for some/many and they've got used to other past times with possibly less stress?  Thinking of the parents as well.

They'll be back... clubs are all doing their bit online via social media, that's like saying there won't be kids playing soccer or rugby, it will be back and once at school they should be picking up the hurl or ball
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 06, 2021, 11:47:56 AM
I honestly think more will go back to it. Parents will see too little inactivity and interaction.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 06, 2021, 11:56:54 AM
American cases have dropped from 300000 peak 2 weeks ago and are now at 100000 average 130000 in a 7 day average
Any reason for such a sharp decline
Trump goes the decline happens
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 06, 2021, 12:25:47 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 06, 2021, 11:56:54 AM
American cases have dropped from 300000 peak 2 weeks ago and are now at 100000 average 130000 in a 7 day average
Any reason for such a sharp decline
Trump goes the decline happens

Joe the Messiah! I told you he'd sort it all out!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 06, 2021, 03:28:35 PM
I wonder was Angelo on the dart recently......

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/sean-moncrieff-they-re-idiots-leave-it-by-the-time-i-sit-down-again-i-m-speechlessly-angry-1.4471045
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on February 06, 2021, 04:41:03 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 06, 2021, 03:28:35 PM
I wonder was Angelo on the dart recently......

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/sean-moncrieff-they-re-idiots-leave-it-by-the-time-i-sit-down-again-i-m-speechlessly-angry-1.4471045

MUH FREEDOMS!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on February 06, 2021, 05:20:20 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 06, 2021, 11:56:54 AM
American cases have dropped from 300000 peak 2 weeks ago and are now at 100000 average 130000 in a 7 day average
Any reason for such a sharp decline
Trump goes the decline happens

Expected drop after dealing with the Christmas and New years eve surge in cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 06, 2021, 08:34:49 PM
https://t.co/xpeyfxTI4i (https://t.co/xpeyfxTI4i)

That's a tough enough read. (Guardian article by an active doctor).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 06, 2021, 08:54:15 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 06, 2021, 08:34:49 PM
https://t.co/xpeyfxTI4i (https://t.co/xpeyfxTI4i)

That's a tough enough read. (Guardian article by an active doctor).
I have a massive amount of time for the NHS and their staff but Rachel Clarke pops up on my Twitter timeline quite a bit and she seems like an absolute dose.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 06, 2021, 08:58:46 PM
Very possibly a bit of a dose but it is still insightful reading stuff like that. For people to come into hospitals to try and drag patients out is ridiculous.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 08:55:35 AM
So there we have it

AZ vaccine does not stop the South African virus

A massive blow to the uk and Ireland

What now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 09:06:00 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 08:55:35 AM
So there we have it

AZ vaccine does not stop the South African virus

A massive blow to the uk and Ireland

What now?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-55967767

At least provide a link, that way people can read it, without your Sun headline



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 09:28:32 AM
You just did

Massive massive blow for the uk and Ireland

What now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 07, 2021, 10:00:37 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 08:55:35 AM
So there we have it

AZ vaccine does not stop the South African virus

A massive blow to the uk and Ireland

What now?

Another solution maybe? One that was there all along?

https://newsnow.tasr.sk/featured/health-ministry-okays-use-of-ivermectin-in-fight-against-coronavirus/
(https://newsnow.tasr.sk/featured/health-ministry-okays-use-of-ivermectin-in-fight-against-coronavirus/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on February 07, 2021, 10:16:35 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 08:55:35 AM
So there we have it

AZ vaccine does not stop the South African virus

A massive blow to the uk and Ireland

What now?

"But the company expressed confidence that the vaccine would offer protection against serious cases, because it created neutralising antibodies similar to those of other coronavirus vaccines."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on February 07, 2021, 10:30:06 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 07, 2021, 10:00:37 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 08:55:35 AM
So there we have it

AZ vaccine does not stop the South African virus

A massive blow to the uk and Ireland

What now?

Another solution maybe? One that was there all along?

https://newsnow.tasr.sk/featured/health-ministry-okays-use-of-ivermectin-in-fight-against-coronavirus/
(https://newsnow.tasr.sk/featured/health-ministry-okays-use-of-ivermectin-in-fight-against-coronavirus/)

Yes Ivermectin has been talked about for quite some time now as a treatment for or possibly for prophylactic use against covid 19 infections.

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.m4974/rr

Low cost, easily administered. Norbrook manufacture a version for animal use
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on February 07, 2021, 10:53:46 AM
Thats East Belfast sorted then but wharrabout the rest of us 🤓🙊
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 10:59:13 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2021, 10:16:35 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 08:55:35 AM
So there we have it

AZ vaccine does not stop the South African virus

A massive blow to the uk and Ireland

What now?

"But the company expressed confidence that the vaccine would offer protection against serious cases, because it created neutralising antibodies similar to those of other coronavirus vaccines."

That's why I posted link. As smurphy likes to hype things up when there's no need.

He's still saying there was no cases in March 2020 ffs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 07, 2021, 11:18:40 AM
Maybe on the planet he lives on....?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on February 07, 2021, 11:22:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 10:59:13 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2021, 10:16:35 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 08:55:35 AM
So there we have it

AZ vaccine does not stop the South African virus

A massive blow to the uk and Ireland

What now?

"But the company expressed confidence that the vaccine would offer protection against serious cases, because it created neutralising antibodies similar to those of other coronavirus vaccines."

That's why I posted link. As smurphy likes to hype things up when there's no need.

He's still saying there was no cases in March 2020 ffs

Indeed, a "Sun headline" as you rightly called it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 12:18:45 PM
I said it was barely here

You guys went things lockdown forever

To comfy on furlough and lying about the house men
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on February 07, 2021, 12:25:58 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 12:18:45 PM
I said it was barely here

You guys went things lockdown forever

To comfy on furlough and lying about the house men

Swing and a miss. I work for the NHS and see first hand the burden this is putting on the health service.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 12:34:03 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 07, 2021, 12:25:58 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 12:18:45 PM
I said it was barely here

You guys went things lockdown forever

To comfy on furlough and lying about the house men

Swing and a miss. I work for the NHS and see first hand the burden this is putting on the health service.

I'm working flat out, but hey knock yourself out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: South Laois man on February 07, 2021, 02:47:55 PM
Tim Spector, well known epidemiologist said today he can't see large scale events like sports and concerts coming back for years even large weddings!!!! How could that be justified if vaccinations essentially turn this into something no worse than a cold or flu.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 02:52:59 PM
Question for milltown and the boys

If the South African virus evades the vaccine that's fine


If the South African variant is dominant in SA how have cases and deaths completely plummeted in that country to the extent most restrictions are being lifted?

Cases and deaths falling massively

Explain
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 07, 2021, 02:58:01 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 02:52:59 PM
Question for milltown and the boys

If the South African virus evades the vaccine that's fine


If the South African variant is dominant in SA how have cases and deaths completely plummeted in that country to the extent most restrictions are being lifted?

Cases and deaths falling massively

Explain

It's danger hyped up to justify continuing with lockdowns, and to push the vaccine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 07, 2021, 03:06:11 PM
Smurfy can I just clarify in case one poster in particular is muddying your view of what other people think.

No one is in favour of lockdown. No one. No one, no matter how many words they have typed, has provided a viable alternative to it. While this is rampant , it is moving towards not being rampant thankfully, we don't have an alternative. There are things which have been done in lockdown which I imagine no one has agreed with outside those who agreed it. That is in terms of subtleties but not the general principle. Things like gyms, bars with no alcohol, kids play parks at times etc.

Also I don't imagine there's a single person here not significantly impacted by lockdown. Whether that be their kids and dealing with them, their development, ability to see family members or whatever we all feel this.

Just in case you had your view on other people's views muddied by one person.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 03:22:10 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 02:52:59 PM
Question for milltown and the boys

If the South African virus evades the vaccine that's fine


If the South African variant is dominant in SA how have cases and deaths completely plummeted in that country to the extent most restrictions are being lifted?

Cases and deaths falling massively

Explain

First off I'm not an expert, neither are you

Second I want normality back tomorrow

Thirdly if we continue with cases dropping we'll have restrictions lifted, if we continue with covid deniers we will have this continued lockdowns, as the health service is under pressure (why is a question we've answered thousands of times)

Fourthly stop sticking up rubbish about not having cases in March when we closed the place down to the amount of cases we had!

And lastly the more people that take the vaccine the we should be out of it quicker

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 07, 2021, 03:51:12 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/12ff370a-a40d-11ea-81ac-4854aed294e5

"The coronavirus crisis has split the workforce into three groups: those who have lost jobs or at least some pay; those who are deemed "essential" workers who must labour on through the crisis (often at great risk to their own health); or those who are virtual knowledge workers whose lives have hardly been affected."

The first 2 groups have to be looked after
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 03:57:34 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 07, 2021, 10:00:37 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 08:55:35 AM
So there we have it

AZ vaccine does not stop the South African virus

A massive blow to the uk and Ireland

What now?

Another solution maybe? One that was there all along?

https://newsnow.tasr.sk/featured/health-ministry-okays-use-of-ivermectin-in-fight-against-coronavirus/
(https://newsnow.tasr.sk/featured/health-ministry-okays-use-of-ivermectin-in-fight-against-coronavirus/)

A tablet already on the market that costs £1.50.

You see if we went along with that, Big Pharam would not have been able to make billions of profits and the dublin7's beloved Pfizer CEO would not have been able to enrich himself by selling his shares at pre agreed price.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 04:14:11 PM
Milltown I said barely any cases in March April time
To put that to you from March 1st until July 19 we had 5714 cases in 20 weeks (140 days )
On the 29-30-31st of December we had 5756 cases in 3 days
Benny vale agree totally
Tommy you are right we have all been affected
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 07, 2021, 04:16:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 03:22:10 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 02:52:59 PM
Question for milltown and the boys

If the South African virus evades the vaccine that's fine


If the South African variant is dominant in SA how have cases and deaths completely plummeted in that country to the extent most restrictions are being lifted?

Cases and deaths falling massively

Explain

First off I'm not an expert, neither are you

Second I want normality back tomorrow

Thirdly if we continue with cases dropping we'll have restrictions lifted, if we continue with covid deniers we will have this continued lockdowns, as the health service is under pressure (why is a question we've answered thousands of times)

Fourthly stop sticking up rubbish about not having cases in March when we closed the place down to the amount of cases we had!

And lastly the more people that take the vaccine the we should be out of it quicker

Cases dropping does not mean herd immunity
.Whether vaccines stand up to the mutations of the future is a question of luck.
Another word for virus is pox. Another word for lucky is poxed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 04:17:24 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 04:14:11 PM
Milltown I said barely any cases in March April time
To put that to you from March 1st until July 19 we had 5714 cases in 20 weeks (140 days )
On the 29-30-31st of December we had 5756 cases in 3 days
Benny vale agree totally
Tommy you are right we have all been affected

So I'll ask you this. Do you just think it's a flu thing and we should approach it the same way?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on February 07, 2021, 04:46:31 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 04:14:11 PM
Milltown I said barely any cases in March April time
To put that to you from March 1st until July 19 we had 5714 cases in 20 weeks (140 days )
On the 29-30-31st of December we had 5756 cases in 3 days
Benny vale agree totally
Tommy you are right we have all been affected
Can you give a breakdown on the amount of testing in the six counties March, March compared to December to January.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 04:17:24 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 04:14:11 PM
Milltown I said barely any cases in March April time
To put that to you from March 1st until July 19 we had 5714 cases in 20 weeks (140 days )
On the 29-30-31st of December we had 5756 cases in 3 days
Benny vale agree totally
Tommy you are right we have all been affected

So I'll ask you this. Do you just think it's a flu thing and we should approach it the same way?

Just a flu?

Just a flu?

2,101 people died in Jan 2018. Are you a flu denier or do you just think record deaths are acceptable when it's flu.

Would it be possible for you to go one day without contradicting yourself?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 05:50:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 04:17:24 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 04:14:11 PM
Milltown I said barely any cases in March April time
To put that to you from March 1st until July 19 we had 5714 cases in 20 weeks (140 days )
On the 29-30-31st of December we had 5756 cases in 3 days
Benny vale agree totally
Tommy you are right we have all been affected

So I'll ask you this. Do you just think it's a flu thing and we should approach it the same way?

Just a flu?

Just a flu?

2,101 people died in Jan 2018. Are you a flu denier or do you just think record deaths are acceptable when it's flu.

Would it be possible for you to go one day without contradicting yourself?

I didn't say "just a flu".. you added that to suit your rubbish

Over 100,000 have died so far of Covid you muppet.. let smurphy answer
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 05:59:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 05:50:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 04:17:24 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 04:14:11 PM
Milltown I said barely any cases in March April time
To put that to you from March 1st until July 19 we had 5714 cases in 20 weeks (140 days )
On the 29-30-31st of December we had 5756 cases in 3 days
Benny vale agree totally
Tommy you are right we have all been affected

So I'll ask you this. Do you just think it's a flu thing and we should approach it the same way?

Just a flu?

Just a flu?

2,101 people died in Jan 2018. Are you a flu denier or do you just think record deaths are acceptable when it's flu.

Would it be possible for you to go one day without contradicting yourself?

I didn't say "just a flu".. you added that to suit your rubbish

Over 100,000 have died so far of Covid you muppet.. let smurphy answer

Lessen off with the muppet talk.

Over 100k people have died, we know that Covid deaths are overstated though due to the arbitrary nature of classifying them.

2,101 people died in Jan 2018 but you don't see a problem with that so it's quite obvious you are contradicting yourself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on February 07, 2021, 06:14:46 PM
ROI weekly update.

Confirmed Cases 7,170 (1,846 less cases than last week)
Reported Deaths 382 (42 more than last week)

In hospital 1,204 (312 less than a week ago)
In ICU 178 (33 less than last Sunday)

Hopefully the death numbers start to decline soon. Good progress elsewhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 06:28:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 05:59:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 05:50:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 04:17:24 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 04:14:11 PM
Milltown I said barely any cases in March April time
To put that to you from March 1st until July 19 we had 5714 cases in 20 weeks (140 days )
On the 29-30-31st of December we had 5756 cases in 3 days
Benny vale agree totally
Tommy you are right we have all been affected

So I'll ask you this. Do you just think it's a flu thing and we should approach it the same way?

Just a flu?

Just a flu?

2,101 people died in Jan 2018. Are you a flu denier or do you just think record deaths are acceptable when it's flu.

Would it be possible for you to go one day without contradicting yourself?

I didn't say "just a flu".. you added that to suit your rubbish

Over 100,000 have died so far of Covid you muppet.. let smurphy answer

Lessen off with the muppet talk.

Over 100k people have died, we know that Covid deaths are overstated though due to the arbitrary nature of classifying them.

2,101 people died in Jan 2018 but you don't see a problem with that so it's quite obvious you are contradicting yourself.

Hold on, 100000 people have died of Covid and you're say not? Even if you apply the logic that I know you're going to say.

They were going to die anyways
Covid wasn't the reason they died
They were hit by a bus
They were in nursing homes and people die.

100000+ deaths connected to Covid is not 600 extra deaths in NI in 2018 to a normal year, you plonker
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 06:32:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 06:28:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 05:59:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 05:50:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 04:17:24 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 07, 2021, 04:14:11 PM
Milltown I said barely any cases in March April time
To put that to you from March 1st until July 19 we had 5714 cases in 20 weeks (140 days )
On the 29-30-31st of December we had 5756 cases in 3 days
Benny vale agree totally
Tommy you are right we have all been affected

So I'll ask you this. Do you just think it's a flu thing and we should approach it the same way?

Just a flu?

Just a flu?

2,101 people died in Jan 2018. Are you a flu denier or do you just think record deaths are acceptable when it's flu.

Would it be possible for you to go one day without contradicting yourself?

I didn't say "just a flu".. you added that to suit your rubbish

Over 100,000 have died so far of Covid you muppet.. let smurphy answer

Lessen off with the muppet talk.

Over 100k people have died, we know that Covid deaths are overstated though due to the arbitrary nature of classifying them.

2,101 people died in Jan 2018 but you don't see a problem with that so it's quite obvious you are contradicting yourself.

Hold on, 100000 people have died of Covid and you're say not? Even if you apply the logic that I know you're going to say.

They were going to die anyways
Covid wasn't the reason they died
They were hit by a bus
They were in nursing homes and people die.

100000+ deaths connected to Covid is not 600 extra deaths in NI in 2018 to a normal year, you plonker

100k people died with Covid.

We know as a matter of fact that these deaths are recorded in a arbitrary fashion.

Plonker now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 06:35:47 PM
Can you prove this? Can you give me the figures and put up a reputable link please...

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 06:38:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 06:35:47 PM
Can you prove this? Can you give me the figures and put up a reputable link please...

Can I prove they are recorded in an arbitrary fashion?

Yes.

Note on NISRA recorded deaths.

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/Covid-19%20deaths%20%E2%80%93%20March-August%202020%20%E2%80%93%20Tables.xlsx

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 06:51:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 06:38:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 06:35:47 PM
Can you prove this? Can you give me the figures and put up a reputable link please...

Can I prove they are recorded in an arbitrary fashion?

Yes.

Note on NISRA recorded deaths.

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/Covid-19%20deaths%20%E2%80%93%20March-August%202020%20%E2%80%93%20Tables.xlsx

Have you actually read this?

In Northern Ireland alone death toll due to the virus now stands at 1,931 according to DoH figures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 06:59:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 06:51:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 06:38:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 06:35:47 PM
Can you prove this? Can you give me the figures and put up a reputable link please...

Can I prove they are recorded in an arbitrary fashion?

Yes.

Note on NISRA recorded deaths.

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/Covid-19%20deaths%20%E2%80%93%20March-August%202020%20%E2%80%93%20Tables.xlsx

Have you actually read this?

In Northern Ireland alone death toll due to the virus now stands at 1,931 according to DoH figures.

You asked me about the arbitrary nature of recording deaths and I've given you your proof.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 07:06:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 06:59:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 06:51:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 06:38:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 06:35:47 PM
Can you prove this? Can you give me the figures and put up a reputable link please...

Can I prove they are recorded in an arbitrary fashion?

Yes.

Note on NISRA recorded deaths.

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/Covid-19%20deaths%20%E2%80%93%20March-August%202020%20%E2%80%93%20Tables.xlsx

Have you actually read this?

In Northern Ireland alone death toll due to the virus now stands at 1,931 according to DoH figures.

You asked me about the arbitrary nature of recording deaths and I've given you your proof.

Ok... so from March to August 875 died as a result of Covid?  That's what table one said
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 10:40:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 07:06:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 06:59:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 06:51:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 06:38:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 06:35:47 PM
Can you prove this? Can you give me the figures and put up a reputable link please...

Can I prove they are recorded in an arbitrary fashion?

Yes.

Note on NISRA recorded deaths.

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/Covid-19%20deaths%20%E2%80%93%20March-August%202020%20%E2%80%93%20Tables.xlsx

Have you actually read this?

In Northern Ireland alone death toll due to the virus now stands at 1,931 according to DoH figures.

You asked me about the arbitrary nature of recording deaths and I've given you your proof.

Ok... so from March to August 875 died as a result of Covid?  That's what table one said

You must not have read the note. The basis of recording the deaths is spurious.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 11:00:14 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 10:40:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 07:06:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 06:59:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 06:51:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 06:38:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 06:35:47 PM
Can you prove this? Can you give me the figures and put up a reputable link please...

Can I prove they are recorded in an arbitrary fashion?

Yes.

Note on NISRA recorded deaths.

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/Covid-19%20deaths%20%E2%80%93%20March-August%202020%20%E2%80%93%20Tables.xlsx

Have you actually read this?

In Northern Ireland alone death toll due to the virus now stands at 1,931 according to DoH figures.

You asked me about the arbitrary nature of recording deaths and I've given you your proof.

Ok... so from March to August 875 died as a result of Covid?  That's what table one said

You must not have read the note. The basis of recording the deaths is spurious.

I read it.. 875 died of Covid related deaths between March and August
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 07, 2021, 11:06:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 07:06:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 06:59:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 06:51:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 06:38:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 06:35:47 PM
Can you prove this? Can you give me the figures and put up a reputable link please...

Can I prove they are recorded in an arbitrary fashion?

Yes.

Note on NISRA recorded deaths.

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/Covid-19%20deaths%20%E2%80%93%20March-August%202020%20%E2%80%93%20Tables.xlsx

Have you actually read this?

In Northern Ireland alone death toll due to the virus now stands at 1,931 according to DoH figures.

You asked me about the arbitrary nature of recording deaths and I've given you your proof.

Ok... so from March to August 875 died as a result of Covid?  That's what table one said

These stats are based on the cause of death as per the death certificates. If you can't trust them then you're questioning the competency of the medical professionals who complete and sign off on the certificates. A doctor/coroner is not got going to sign one of these certs if he thinks it's not completed right.

Also if you're questioning the stats for Covid then by that logic you have to question how accurate the figures are for flu deaths as well as they same principle applies

If someone with an underlying condition gets the flu and dies was it the flu or underlying condition as the cause of death?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 11:13:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 11:00:14 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 10:40:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 07:06:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 06:59:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 06:51:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 06:38:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 06:35:47 PM
Can you prove this? Can you give me the figures and put up a reputable link please...

Can I prove they are recorded in an arbitrary fashion?

Yes.

Note on NISRA recorded deaths.

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/Covid-19%20deaths%20%E2%80%93%20March-August%202020%20%E2%80%93%20Tables.xlsx

Have you actually read this?

In Northern Ireland alone death toll due to the virus now stands at 1,931 according to DoH figures.

You asked me about the arbitrary nature of recording deaths and I've given you your proof.

Ok... so from March to August 875 died as a result of Covid?  That's what table one said

You must not have read the note. The basis of recording the deaths is spurious.

I read it.. 875 died of Covid related deaths between March and August

You didn't read the note which undermines the accuracy of the figures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 11:15:52 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 07, 2021, 11:06:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 07:06:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 06:59:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 06:51:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 06:38:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 06:35:47 PM
Can you prove this? Can you give me the figures and put up a reputable link please...

Can I prove they are recorded in an arbitrary fashion?

Yes.

Note on NISRA recorded deaths.

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/Covid-19%20deaths%20%E2%80%93%20March-August%202020%20%E2%80%93%20Tables.xlsx

Have you actually read this?

In Northern Ireland alone death toll due to the virus now stands at 1,931 according to DoH figures.

You asked me about the arbitrary nature of recording deaths and I've given you your proof.

Ok... so from March to August 875 died as a result of Covid?  That's what table one said

These stats are based on the cause of death as per the death certificates. If you can't trust them then you're questioning the competency of the medical professionals who complete and sign off on the certificates. A doctor/coroner is not got going to sign one of these certs if he thinks it's not completed right.

Also if you're questioning the stats for Covid then by that logic you have to question how accurate the figures are for flu deaths as well as they same principle applies

If someone with an underlying condition gets the flu and dies was it the flu or underlying condition as the cause of death?

A COMPLETE AND UTTER LIE

The note on the figures clearly states this is not the case. You are factually incorrect and pedaling misinformation.

1 Covid-19 deaths include any death where Coronavirus or Covid-19 (suspected or confirmed) was mentioned anywhere on the death certificate.

Your agenda for pedalling these lies is an altogether different matter.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 11:39:42 PM
Just cause you highlight it and put it in capitals doesn't improve your post.

The figures are the figures. Covid is a factor in these deaths. The figures given by the DOH is simple.

Without Covid these deaths won't (in the vast majority) have happened. Unless the images and news reports from the actual hospitals are completely made up.

Do you think that the ICU were filled with actors or real patients?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 07, 2021, 11:42:45 PM
An elimination strategy in tandem with mass vaccinations is the only way to go with this disease

We've had a year of it now and the evidence is comprehensive

Letting it spread produces new variants and there is a risk a supervariant could emerge which has us back to square one

That risk exists because it has been let spread

It is frankly shocking and abominable that people are still proposing half measures, the exact same things which have failed over and over again

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 07, 2021, 11:47:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2021, 11:39:42 PM
Just cause you highlight it and put it in capitals doesn't improve your post.

The figures are the figures. Covid is a factor in these deaths. The figures given by the DOH is simple.

Without Covid these deaths won't (in the vast majority) have happened. Unless the images and news reports from the actual hospitals are completely made up.

Do you think that the ICU were filled with actors or real patients?

I'm just stating what the note states.

You're just choosing to ignore facts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on February 08, 2021, 07:22:00 AM
Most scientists and sensible people agree on the fact that COVID deaths are vastly underestimated. Only COVID deniers and the government disagree with this. The government figures only include people who've died within 28 days of getting COVID. 1 out of every 5 people who leave hospital after recovering from COVID-19 have to go back into hospital within a month. Close to 50% of this group go on to die mainly because of Covid but none of them are included in the figures. I read that when the figures reached 100k dead in Britain the true figure was at least 120k. There are lots of people who are dying 2 or 3 months after getting COVID because their bodies just aren't able to recover, none of them are included in the figures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on February 08, 2021, 08:04:38 AM
People like Angelo who try to prove Covid isn't that serious always throw out these lines that most of the covid deaths aren't really covid and they're overstated etc. But the easiest way to show the argument is nonsense is to look at excess deaths (the number of deaths above the previous 5 year average). And from that you can see there were over 1800 excess deaths in 2020 alone, the largest percentage increase caused since the Spanish flu. In the first 3 weeks of January 2021 alone 25% more people died than the average of the 5 years before this one (and as stated before those 5 years included the Aussie Flu which Angelo is so obsessed with). And it has to be remembered for large parts of the last year restrictions have been in place which have undoubtedly slowed the spread of covid. 

And this proves that unlike Aussie Flu which caused a one month spike this is a much larger prolonged problem which will overwhelm the health service and cause many many deaths if left to run wild as Angelo seems to want.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 08, 2021, 08:53:38 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 08, 2021, 08:04:38 AM
People like Angelo who try to prove Covid isn't that serious always throw out these lines that most of the covid deaths aren't really covid and they're overstated etc. But the easiest way to show the argument is nonsense is to look at excess deaths (the number of deaths above the previous 5 year average). And from that you can see there were over 1800 excess deaths in 2020 alone, the largest percentage increase caused since the Spanish flu. In the first 3 weeks of January 2021 alone 25% more people died than the average of the 5 years before this one (and as stated before those 5 years included the Aussie Flu which Angelo is so obsessed with). And it has to be remembered for large parts of the last year restrictions have been in place which have undoubtedly slowed the spread of covid. 

And this proves that unlike Aussie Flu which caused a one month spike this is a much larger prolonged problem which will overwhelm the health service and cause many many deaths if left to run wild as Angelo seems to want.

No Angelo is very clear on what he wants

Let old the old stay in nursing homes, as on average he states that they will die within a year anyways
It only effects people over the age of 65, so they just stay in and don't visit them
Its seasonal so we should only lockdown between the months of winter.
Don't be supporting the big Pharma as the vaccines will only cause more harm than good
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 08, 2021, 09:36:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 07, 2021, 11:42:45 PM
An elimination strategy in tandem with mass vaccinations is the only way to go with this disease

We've had a year of it now and the evidence is comprehensive

Letting it spread produces new variants and there is a risk a supervariant could emerge which has us back to square one

That risk exists because it has been let spread

It is frankly shocking and abominable that people are still proposing half measures, the exact same things which have failed over and over again

The failure of track and trace by any country in the West really, has been absolutely unforgiveable. Obviously no government will admit it's failure but I do not accept the blame for the spread of this disease like we get weekly from Stormont when they have completely and utterly failed on this.  It's high time they were held to account.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 08, 2021, 09:40:50 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 08, 2021, 09:36:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 07, 2021, 11:42:45 PM
An elimination strategy in tandem with mass vaccinations is the only way to go with this disease

We've had a year of it now and the evidence is comprehensive

Letting it spread produces new variants and there is a risk a supervariant could emerge which has us back to square one

That risk exists because it has been let spread

It is frankly shocking and abominable that people are still proposing half measures, the exact same things which have failed over and over again

The failure of track and trace by any country in the West really, has been absolutely unforgiveable. Obviously no government will admit it's failure but I do not accept the blame for the spread of this disease like we get weekly from Stormont when they have completely and utterly failed on this.  It's high time they were held to account.

On track and trace, will track and trace only work if you have the app?

And on that, who has the app? I don't have it, think the kids have it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 08, 2021, 09:42:17 AM
I have it. Loads I know have it and a few have been forced to isolate because of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on February 08, 2021, 09:42:53 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 08, 2021, 09:36:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 07, 2021, 11:42:45 PM
An elimination strategy in tandem with mass vaccinations is the only way to go with this disease

We've had a year of it now and the evidence is comprehensive

Letting it spread produces new variants and there is a risk a supervariant could emerge which has us back to square one

That risk exists because it has been let spread

It is frankly shocking and abominable that people are still proposing half measures, the exact same things which have failed over and over again

The failure of track and trace by any country in the West really, has been absolutely unforgiveable. Obviously no government will admit it's failure but I do not accept the blame for the spread of this disease like we get weekly from Stormont when they have completely and utterly failed on this.  It's high time they were held to account.

Especially the UK who gave their 12 billion track and trace contract to dido harding, wife of a tory minister, and who had a string of failed businesses behind her. Many of their covid contracts have gone to tory donors and most have been a waste of money hence why they're trying to stop any public enquires. It's corruption at an unbelievable scale. The only reason the vaccine rollout is successful is because the NHS have been looking after it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 08, 2021, 09:47:25 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 08, 2021, 09:42:17 AM
I have it. Loads I know have it and a few have been forced to isolate because of it.

But is it solely app based?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 08, 2021, 09:49:44 AM
The track and trace you mean.... As far as I am aware yeah and whoever tests positive needs to register on the app as having tested positive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 08, 2021, 09:52:28 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 08, 2021, 09:49:44 AM
The track and trace you mean.... As far as I am aware yeah and whoever tests positive needs to register on the app as having tested positive.

Yes, so the problem is if you have no app, and are not forced to have it, or if you a no smart phone it wont work
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 08, 2021, 09:53:57 AM
No your workplace can be contacted by track and trace, it's happened to someone I know.....(yes I know.....)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 08, 2021, 09:57:05 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 08, 2021, 08:04:38 AM
People like Angelo who try to prove Covid isn't that serious always throw out these lines that most of the covid deaths aren't really covid and they're overstated etc. But the easiest way to show the argument is nonsense is to look at excess deaths (the number of deaths above the previous 5 year average). And from that you can see there were over 1800 excess deaths in 2020 alone, the largest percentage increase caused since the Spanish flu. In the first 3 weeks of January 2021 alone 25% more people died than the average of the 5 years before this one (and as stated before those 5 years included the Aussie Flu which Angelo is so obsessed with). And it has to be remembered for large parts of the last year restrictions have been in place which have undoubtedly slowed the spread of covid. 

And this proves that unlike Aussie Flu which caused a one month spike this is a much larger prolonged problem which will overwhelm the health service and cause many many deaths if left to run wild as Angelo seems to want.

I haven't said Covid isn't serious.

I have said that there are some amount of hypocrites on here who couldn't give a toss how many people die or what they die from as long as it isn't Covid related.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 08, 2021, 10:08:38 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 08, 2021, 09:52:28 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 08, 2021, 09:49:44 AM
The track and trace you mean.... As far as I am aware yeah and whoever tests positive needs to register on the app as having tested positive.

Yes, so the problem is if you have no app, and are not forced to have it, or if you a no smart phone it wont work

Yeah - there are many fundamental flaws to it lol.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on February 08, 2021, 10:36:11 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 08, 2021, 09:57:05 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 08, 2021, 08:04:38 AM
People like Angelo who try to prove Covid isn't that serious always throw out these lines that most of the covid deaths aren't really covid and they're overstated etc. But the easiest way to show the argument is nonsense is to look at excess deaths (the number of deaths above the previous 5 year average). And from that you can see there were over 1800 excess deaths in 2020 alone, the largest percentage increase caused since the Spanish flu. In the first 3 weeks of January 2021 alone 25% more people died than the average of the 5 years before this one (and as stated before those 5 years included the Aussie Flu which Angelo is so obsessed with). And it has to be remembered for large parts of the last year restrictions have been in place which have undoubtedly slowed the spread of covid. 

And this proves that unlike Aussie Flu which caused a one month spike this is a much larger prolonged problem which will overwhelm the health service and cause many many deaths if left to run wild as Angelo seems to want.

I haven't said Covid isn't serious.

I have said that there are some amount of hypocrites on here who couldn't give a toss how many people die or what they die from as long as it isn't Covid related.

But you have tried to play down the number of deaths and make out that a lot of them weren't really from covid and the numbers are exaggerated. But it doesn't explain the huge excess deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 08, 2021, 10:39:56 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 08, 2021, 10:36:11 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 08, 2021, 09:57:05 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 08, 2021, 08:04:38 AM
People like Angelo who try to prove Covid isn't that serious always throw out these lines that most of the covid deaths aren't really covid and they're overstated etc. But the easiest way to show the argument is nonsense is to look at excess deaths (the number of deaths above the previous 5 year average). And from that you can see there were over 1800 excess deaths in 2020 alone, the largest percentage increase caused since the Spanish flu. In the first 3 weeks of January 2021 alone 25% more people died than the average of the 5 years before this one (and as stated before those 5 years included the Aussie Flu which Angelo is so obsessed with). And it has to be remembered for large parts of the last year restrictions have been in place which have undoubtedly slowed the spread of covid. 

And this proves that unlike Aussie Flu which caused a one month spike this is a much larger prolonged problem which will overwhelm the health service and cause many many deaths if left to run wild as Angelo seems to want.

I haven't said Covid isn't serious.

I have said that there are some amount of hypocrites on here who couldn't give a toss how many people die or what they die from as long as it isn't Covid related.

But you have tried to play down the number of deaths and make out that a lot of them weren't really from covid and the numbers are exaggerated. But it doesn't explain the huge excess deaths.

I haven't. I have point that that the basis on which they are recorded are spurious. It's a fact.

Meanwhile other posters come on here and justify and excuse the level of death we had in Jan 2018 which we have not reach during Covid yet. It's shameless hypocrisy. People who die from flu don't matter but people dying from Covid do. I can't abide that kind of double standards.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 08, 2021, 12:19:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 08, 2021, 09:36:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 07, 2021, 11:42:45 PM
An elimination strategy in tandem with mass vaccinations is the only way to go with this disease

We've had a year of it now and the evidence is comprehensive

Letting it spread produces new variants and there is a risk a supervariant could emerge which has us back to square one

That risk exists because it has been let spread

It is frankly shocking and abominable that people are still proposing half measures, the exact same things which have failed over and over again

The failure of track and trace by any country in the West really, has been absolutely unforgiveable. Obviously no government will admit it's failure but I do not accept the blame for the spread of this disease like we get weekly from Stormont when they have completely and utterly failed on this.  It's high time they were held to account.
Test and trace cannot work where Covid is rampant in the community

It can only work where there is a very low number of cases

To get the number of cases low you need hard lockdown and then border closures

We are hard locking down anyway, so we might as well finish the job to zero if possible rather than repeating the same mistake yet again and opening up, where the circle will continue

As an internationalist, it kills me to say this but borders need to be shut, because foreign travel is a no no if you want to eliminate this thing, it continually re seeds chains of transmission

If the DUP continue to stay loyal to the virus, which they will, the Republic can take its own measures, which may not result in a full Croke Park, but living with Level 1 or Level 2 rather than level 5 as we are doing

JK Galbraith said "Ideas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of other ideas but to the massive onslaughts of circumstances with which they cannot contend."

The failed idea of living with the virus has still not yielded but how much longer this can remain the case is questionable

This idea has yielded several more transmissible variants, the idea has failed

The idea was implemented because it was too much effort on the part of governments to put proper policy in place

But the last year has necessitated a much bigger effort from ordinary people because of this

Zero Covid, aggressive suppression, call it whatever you want, this is or should be the only game in town now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 08, 2021, 12:24:58 PM
Tomas Ryan talking to Eamon Dunphy re Zero Covid/aggressive suppression/elimination

Well worth listening to

https://thestandwitheamondunphy.com/episode/1014/

https://thestandwitheamondunphy.com/episode/1006/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 08, 2021, 12:32:51 PM
The country as a whole was well able to get the lid and contain on this thing last summer. There wasn't a bit of it about.

The North regularly had 0 deaths per day for about 3-4 months.

We should have capitalised then when it was manageable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 08, 2021, 12:36:11 PM
Some very good points Sid and well thought out.

I'd suffer on one area and that is our lockdown - both sides of the border. I'd not say it's by any means a hard lockdown. We haven't gone to lengths that Australia, New Zealand, China, etc have went to we strict implementation of the rules such as curfews, internal travel etc. As you'd said, most of our restrictions have been to effect of living with the Virus rather than surpressing it.

The first lockdown was much more effective and visible in its effect. Since then each time it's impact is less noticeable. Our classification of what is essential business is far looser than other nations.

And that goes before you consider compliance with the rules. As a nation, we look for loopholes rather than taking them as intended and justify them to suit own self interests.

Lockdown has not been easy for anyone and no one wants them. But seems to be reluctance to do what's right to move out of the quicker. But I don't think there is middle ground with this virus. Given chance it will quickly rise again.

At present I don't think zero covid will be an option with our borders and movement of people. With vaccine on the horizon there will be even less desire to attain this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on February 08, 2021, 12:48:04 PM
Gerry "whatabout" Kelly getting it put up to him by Carruthers on Talkback. Gerry not handling it very well and getting really arsey.

This is just a complete mess regarding the PSNI and enforcing Covid regs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 08, 2021, 01:18:21 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 08, 2021, 12:36:11 PM
Some very good points Sid and well thought out.

I'd suffer on one area and that is our lockdown - both sides of the border. I'd not say it's by any means a hard lockdown. We haven't gone to lengths that Australia, New Zealand, China, etc have went to we strict implementation of the rules such as curfews, internal travel etc. As you'd said, most of our restrictions have been to effect of living with the Virus rather than surpressing it.

The first lockdown was much more effective and visible in its effect. Since then each time it's impact is less noticeable. Our classification of what is essential business is far looser than other nations.

And that goes before you consider compliance with the rules. As a nation, we look for loopholes rather than taking them as intended and justify them to suit own self interests.

Lockdown has not been easy for anyone and no one wants them. But seems to be reluctance to do what's right to move out of the quicker. But I don't think there is middle ground with this virus. Given chance it will quickly rise again.

At present I don't think zero covid will be an option with our borders and movement of people. With vaccine on the horizon there will be even less desire to attain this.

With the vaccine - and we all hope they are super effective and end this thing -  I fear we will run into a wall

Everybody who is getting the vaccine currently is super eager to get it - and I'd estimate that about 40-50% of the population are very eager to get it

Then I'd estimate that around another 25-30% are "soft yesses", ie. they are not against getting it, but at the same time probably aren't that bothered, they will play it by ear

But then there are the maybe 15-20% who will just not get it

We need probably 85% of the population at least to get vaccinated before we run into a theoretical herd immunity situation - the new variants are believed to have upped the percentage needed from 70%

I fear we'll run into a wall where we only get maybe 65-70% vaccinated

I think a lot of the soft yesses will end up not bothering to get it - "ah shure deaths are going down, this thing is fizzling out"

But that means we will still have the virus and perhaps have to continually revaccinate as he years go by, or a new super variant could emerge which evades vaccines

The more I think about it, the worldwide vaccination situation will likely turn into a shitshow as regards how it affects movement in various countries, we will be in a long period of uncertainty and it will cause huge divisions both within countries and between countries

Regarding Zero Covid/aggressive suppression, the border is a problem, but Ryan believes you can cut out around 90% of the chains of transmission even if the DUP keep doing what they're doing

The border is not a reason to not do Zero Covid

Even if it does not work as effectively as New Zealand, which it likely wouldn't, it would almost certainly work a good deal better than this current non-strategy

Anyway everybody in the Republic currently has a 5km border around them

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 08, 2021, 01:48:18 PM
The Vaccine take up will be a worry when it's starts to roll out more and there will be resist to it. I also feel there will be enough good reason for the soft 20% to follow through and get it. The remaining 20% will he a hard group to target and the minority who aggressively peddle an anti-vac stance will also be more aggressive in their stance.

The take up here and abroad, with some European countries like France and Italy showing even higher levels of take up, will be key and why they are looking to global roll out and collective approach. Some
Commentary that UK moving too quick but could equally Stevie EU moving far too slow for whatever reason and their seem to be several eg delay in orders/approval, supply, roll out strategy.

On zero covid, my preferred would be to aggressively pursue it but that will take a severe hard lockdown before international travel restrictions and whatever about government having ambition for that, I don't enough people have at this stage. The Northern border is one thing but we've a short sea/land border to UK and Europe and it would seem very difficult to close this off. On paper it seems easy but such are the transport and work corridors in place, it's a big task to manage and enforce.

Our personal 5km border is very very suspect at present. We see the numbers happy to travel overseas are taking the €500 fine and continuing the journey, it's even more at local level with €100 fine and in most cases a chance to just turn round and try a different route to destination.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on February 08, 2021, 02:38:06 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 08, 2021, 01:48:18 PM

Our personal 5km border is very very suspect at present. We see the numbers happy to travel overseas are taking the €500 fine and continuing the journey, it's even more at local level with €100 fine and in most cases a chance to just turn round and try a different route to destination.

There is neither science nor logic about the 5km limit. Most people in rural areas routinely go well outside their 5km for grocery shopping, which they are both legally permitted and well entitled to do, so it's pointless to stop people doing likewise for exercise and relaxation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 08, 2021, 02:42:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 08, 2021, 01:18:21 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 08, 2021, 12:36:11 PM
Some very good points Sid and well thought out.

I'd suffer on one area and that is our lockdown - both sides of the border. I'd not say it's by any means a hard lockdown. We haven't gone to lengths that Australia, New Zealand, China, etc have went to we strict implementation of the rules such as curfews, internal travel etc. As you'd said, most of our restrictions have been to effect of living with the Virus rather than surpressing it.

The first lockdown was much more effective and visible in its effect. Since then each time it's impact is less noticeable. Our classification of what is essential business is far looser than other nations.

And that goes before you consider compliance with the rules. As a nation, we look for loopholes rather than taking them as intended and justify them to suit own self interests.

Lockdown has not been easy for anyone and no one wants them. But seems to be reluctance to do what's right to move out of the quicker. But I don't think there is middle ground with this virus. Given chance it will quickly rise again.

At present I don't think zero covid will be an option with our borders and movement of people. With vaccine on the horizon there will be even less desire to attain this.

With the vaccine - and we all hope they are super effective and end this thing -  I fear we will run into a wall

Everybody who is getting the vaccine currently is super eager to get it - and I'd estimate that about 40-50% of the population are very eager to get it

Then I'd estimate that around another 25-30% are "soft yesses", ie. they are not against getting it, but at the same time probably aren't that bothered, they will play it by ear

But then there are the maybe 15-20% who will just not get it

We need probably 85% of the population at least to get vaccinated before we run into a theoretical herd immunity situation - the new variants are believed to have upped the percentage needed from 70%

I fear we'll run into a wall where we only get maybe 65-70% vaccinated

I think a lot of the soft yesses will end up not bothering to get it - "ah shure deaths are going down, this thing is fizzling out"

But that means we will still have the virus and perhaps have to continually revaccinate as he years go by, or a new super variant could emerge which evades vaccines

The more I think about it, the worldwide vaccination situation will likely turn into a shitshow as regards how it affects movement in various countries, we will be in a long period of uncertainty and it will cause huge divisions both within countries and between countries

Regarding Zero Covid/aggressive suppression, the border is a problem, but Ryan believes you can cut out around 90% of the chains of transmission even if the DUP keep doing what they're doing

The border is not a reason to not do Zero Covid

Even if it does not work as effectively as New Zealand, which it likely wouldn't, it would almost certainly work a good deal better than this current non-strategy

Anyway everybody in the Republic currently has a 5km border around them

Yes, there are millions who won't go near the vaccine, but eventually they'll have to get it, because you'll need a 'covid passport' to do anything, eg. shop, travel, go to work, go to the gym, go to mass, attend sports events, concerts etc.

I'm keeping an eye on the vaccine situation in New Zealand. Because if they remain covid free, with strict quarantine laws, then why would anyone in NZ need to get the vaccine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 08, 2021, 02:44:50 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 08, 2021, 01:48:18 PM
The Vaccine take up will be a worry when it's starts to roll out more and there will be resist to it. I also feel there will be enough good reason for the soft 20% to follow through and get it. The remaining 20% will he a hard group to target and the minority who aggressively peddle an anti-vac stance will also be more aggressive in their stance.

The take up here and abroad, with some European countries like France and Italy showing even higher levels of take up, will be key and why they are looking to global roll out and collective approach. Some
Commentary that UK moving too quick but could equally Stevie EU moving far too slow for whatever reason and their seem to be several eg delay in orders/approval, supply, roll out strategy.

On zero covid, my preferred would be to aggressively pursue it but that will take a severe hard lockdown before international travel restrictions and whatever about government having ambition for that, I don't enough people have at this stage. The Northern border is one thing but we've a short sea/land border to UK and Europe and it would seem very difficult to close this off. On paper it seems easy but such are the transport and work corridors in place, it's a big task to manage and enforce.

Our personal 5km border is very very suspect at present. We see the numbers happy to travel overseas are taking the €500 fine and continuing the journey, it's even more at local level with €100 fine and in most cases a chance to just turn round and try a different route to destination.

That is a high percentage. It can't be anywhere near that. Most people I've interacted with from many age ranges are all pretty much "If it gets it back to normal, why not".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 08, 2021, 02:45:28 PM
Quote from: five points on February 08, 2021, 02:38:06 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 08, 2021, 01:48:18 PM

Our personal 5km border is very very suspect at present. We see the numbers happy to travel overseas are taking the €500 fine and continuing the journey, it's even more at local level with €100 fine and in most cases a chance to just turn round and try a different route to destination.

There is neither science nor logic about the 5km limit. Most people in rural areas routinely go well outside their 5km for grocery shopping, which they are both legally permitted and well entitled to do, so it's pointless to stop people doing likewise for exercise and relaxation.

And that is why the Zero Covid would take the severe lockdown that I don't think Ireland could have followed previously or into the future. There are too many exceptions, rightly or wrongly, to any restrictions that have been put in place or could be. People could visit Town A one day and legitimately make a case to Town B the next. Maybe even go to Town C another day for exercise.

Any limit has always been in my eyes to restrict movement of people to a specific area. A control mechanism to limit transmission.

For zero covid, you talking curfews, leaving house only for essential shopping on limited basis etc etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 08, 2021, 02:47:59 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 08, 2021, 02:44:50 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 08, 2021, 01:48:18 PM
The Vaccine take up will be a worry when it's starts to roll out more and there will be resist to it. I also feel there will be enough good reason for the soft 20% to follow through and get it. The remaining 20% will he a hard group to target and the minority who aggressively peddle an anti-vac stance will also be more aggressive in their stance.

The take up here and abroad, with some European countries like France and Italy showing even higher levels of take up, will be key and why they are looking to global roll out and collective approach. Some
Commentary that UK moving too quick but could equally Stevie EU moving far too slow for whatever reason and their seem to be several eg delay in orders/approval, supply, roll out strategy.

On zero covid, my preferred would be to aggressively pursue it but that will take a severe hard lockdown before international travel restrictions and whatever about government having ambition for that, I don't enough people have at this stage. The Northern border is one thing but we've a short sea/land border to UK and Europe and it would seem very difficult to close this off. On paper it seems easy but such are the transport and work corridors in place, it's a big task to manage and enforce.

Our personal 5km border is very very suspect at present. We see the numbers happy to travel overseas are taking the €500 fine and continuing the journey, it's even more at local level with €100 fine and in most cases a chance to just turn round and try a different route to destination.

That is a high percentage. It can't be anywhere near that. Most people I've interacted with from many age ranges are all pretty much "If it gets it back to normal, why not".

Most I know would get it but reading over weekend has already been some cases where care workers in nursing homes and HSE staff have not taken the vaccine when presented with it. So it's the case that people out there.

I know 2 people in work who have said they won't take one. Could see 1 actually taking it but the other would be beyond talking to - Bill Gates microchip levels.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on February 08, 2021, 02:54:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 08, 2021, 02:42:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 08, 2021, 01:18:21 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 08, 2021, 12:36:11 PM
Some very good points Sid and well thought out.

I'd suffer on one area and that is our lockdown - both sides of the border. I'd not say it's by any means a hard lockdown. We haven't gone to lengths that Australia, New Zealand, China, etc have went to we strict implementation of the rules such as curfews, internal travel etc. As you'd said, most of our restrictions have been to effect of living with the Virus rather than surpressing it.

The first lockdown was much more effective and visible in its effect. Since then each time it's impact is less noticeable. Our classification of what is essential business is far looser than other nations.

And that goes before you consider compliance with the rules. As a nation, we look for loopholes rather than taking them as intended and justify them to suit own self interests.

Lockdown has not been easy for anyone and no one wants them. But seems to be reluctance to do what's right to move out of the quicker. But I don't think there is middle ground with this virus. Given chance it will quickly rise again.

At present I don't think zero covid will be an option with our borders and movement of people. With vaccine on the horizon there will be even less desire to attain this.

With the vaccine - and we all hope they are super effective and end this thing -  I fear we will run into a wall

Everybody who is getting the vaccine currently is super eager to get it - and I'd estimate that about 40-50% of the population are very eager to get it

Then I'd estimate that around another 25-30% are "soft yesses", ie. they are not against getting it, but at the same time probably aren't that bothered, they will play it by ear

But then there are the maybe 15-20% who will just not get it

We need probably 85% of the population at least to get vaccinated before we run into a theoretical herd immunity situation - the new variants are believed to have upped the percentage needed from 70%

I fear we'll run into a wall where we only get maybe 65-70% vaccinated

I think a lot of the soft yesses will end up not bothering to get it - "ah shure deaths are going down, this thing is fizzling out"

But that means we will still have the virus and perhaps have to continually revaccinate as he years go by, or a new super variant could emerge which evades vaccines

The more I think about it, the worldwide vaccination situation will likely turn into a shitshow as regards how it affects movement in various countries, we will be in a long period of uncertainty and it will cause huge divisions both within countries and between countries

Regarding Zero Covid/aggressive suppression, the border is a problem, but Ryan believes you can cut out around 90% of the chains of transmission even if the DUP keep doing what they're doing

The border is not a reason to not do Zero Covid

Even if it does not work as effectively as New Zealand, which it likely wouldn't, it would almost certainly work a good deal better than this current non-strategy

Anyway everybody in the Republic currently has a 5km border around them

Yes, there are millions who won't go near the vaccine, but eventually they'll have to get it, because you'll need a 'covid passport' to do anything, eg. shop, travel, go to work, go to the gym, go to mass, attend sports events, concerts etc.

I'm keeping an eye on the vaccine situation in New Zealand. Because if they remain covid free, with strict quarantine laws, then why would anyone in NZ need to get the vaccine?
Maybe someday they would like to leave New Zealand or to welcome in more foreign visitors without the need for them to take a 2 week quarantine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 08, 2021, 04:04:10 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on February 08, 2021, 02:54:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 08, 2021, 02:42:20 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 08, 2021, 01:18:21 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 08, 2021, 12:36:11 PM
Some very good points Sid and well thought out.

I'd suffer on one area and that is our lockdown - both sides of the border. I'd not say it's by any means a hard lockdown. We haven't gone to lengths that Australia, New Zealand, China, etc have went to we strict implementation of the rules such as curfews, internal travel etc. As you'd said, most of our restrictions have been to effect of living with the Virus rather than surpressing it.

The first lockdown was much more effective and visible in its effect. Since then each time it's impact is less noticeable. Our classification of what is essential business is far looser than other nations.

And that goes before you consider compliance with the rules. As a nation, we look for loopholes rather than taking them as intended and justify them to suit own self interests.

Lockdown has not been easy for anyone and no one wants them. But seems to be reluctance to do what's right to move out of the quicker. But I don't think there is middle ground with this virus. Given chance it will quickly rise again.

At present I don't think zero covid will be an option with our borders and movement of people. With vaccine on the horizon there will be even less desire to attain this.

With the vaccine - and we all hope they are super effective and end this thing -  I fear we will run into a wall

Everybody who is getting the vaccine currently is super eager to get it - and I'd estimate that about 40-50% of the population are very eager to get it

Then I'd estimate that around another 25-30% are "soft yesses", ie. they are not against getting it, but at the same time probably aren't that bothered, they will play it by ear

But then there are the maybe 15-20% who will just not get it

We need probably 85% of the population at least to get vaccinated before we run into a theoretical herd immunity situation - the new variants are believed to have upped the percentage needed from 70%

I fear we'll run into a wall where we only get maybe 65-70% vaccinated

I think a lot of the soft yesses will end up not bothering to get it - "ah shure deaths are going down, this thing is fizzling out"

But that means we will still have the virus and perhaps have to continually revaccinate as he years go by, or a new super variant could emerge which evades vaccines

The more I think about it, the worldwide vaccination situation will likely turn into a shitshow as regards how it affects movement in various countries, we will be in a long period of uncertainty and it will cause huge divisions both within countries and between countries

Regarding Zero Covid/aggressive suppression, the border is a problem, but Ryan believes you can cut out around 90% of the chains of transmission even if the DUP keep doing what they're doing

The border is not a reason to not do Zero Covid

Even if it does not work as effectively as New Zealand, which it likely wouldn't, it would almost certainly work a good deal better than this current non-strategy

Anyway everybody in the Republic currently has a 5km border around them

Yes, there are millions who won't go near the vaccine, but eventually they'll have to get it, because you'll need a 'covid passport' to do anything, eg. shop, travel, go to work, go to the gym, go to mass, attend sports events, concerts etc.

I'm keeping an eye on the vaccine situation in New Zealand. Because if they remain covid free, with strict quarantine laws, then why would anyone in NZ need to get the vaccine?
Maybe someday they would like to leave New Zealand or to welcome in more foreign visitors without the need for them to take a 2 week quarantine.

But they say the vaccine at best is only 95% effective (I doubt it's even close to that). NZ clearly have a near 100% success with their quarantine laws, and the country has been covid free for months (bar 1 or 2 cases). So their methods are much more effective than any vaccine will be.

Heard an Irishwoman in NZ say there's a 7/8 week wait to book a quarantine hotel, and it costs $3000 per adult. So let's face it, international travel as we knew is finished.

If I was from NZ, I'd be more than happy with what they're doing. Everywhere is opened, economy going well, except international tourism, which is a small price price to pay knowing people are stopped at entry points and the virus stopped completely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on February 08, 2021, 04:27:44 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 08, 2021, 04:04:10 PM
But they say the vaccine at best is only 95% effective (I doubt it's even close to that). NZ clearly have a near 100% success with their quarantine laws, and the country has been covid free for months (bar 1 or 2 cases). So their methods are much more effective than any vaccine will be.

Heard an Irishwoman in NZ say there's a 7/8 week wait to book a quarantine hotel, and it costs $3000 per adult. So let's face it, international travel as we knew is finished.

If I was from NZ, I'd be more than happy with what they're doing. Everywhere is opened, economy going well, except international tourism, which is a small price price to pay knowing people are stopped at entry points and the virus stopped completely.
There's no reason to doubt that the vaccine is close to 95% effective.  There is real world data coming from Israel saying that it is 92% effective so it's there for all to see.  I'd agree that anybody in NZ would be more than happy at the minute.  That's because the vast majority of the world is a mess with Covid.  If the rest of the world rectifies itself with the vaccines and international travel starts up again your average New Zealander will get itchy feet and start to request international travel (probably in and around the next Rugby World Cup).  To say international travel as we know it is finished is OTT.  It will restart perhaps with additional measures (see post 9/11 air travel)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on February 08, 2021, 05:47:01 PM
All Pandemics run their course, unless we're extremely unlucky so will this one. Hopefully an annual Covid jab will be all that will remain in a couple of years.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on February 08, 2021, 06:42:55 PM
For the ROI according the press briefing tonight.

January deaths 1202 and 451 association outbreaks care nursing homes.   That's 41 more deaths than our previous highest month (April) although January has 1 extra day.

So far this month 195 deaths. 75 associated with outbreaks in nursing homes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on February 08, 2021, 09:20:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 08, 2021, 01:18:21 PM
But then there are the maybe 15-20% who will just not get it

I've an easy fix for that.

"Hello, operator, I'm sick with covid, I need an ambulance"

"OK, whats your health number? I need to check did you get the vaccine."

"I didn't get it, its all a big pharma conspiracy"

"Ah, well, in that case, the ambulance might take quite some time to get to you - your straight to the bottom of the queue. We'll prioritise folks that followed public health advice."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 08, 2021, 09:26:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 08, 2021, 09:20:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 08, 2021, 01:18:21 PM
But then there are the maybe 15-20% who will just not get it

I've an easy fix for that.

"Hello, operator, I'm sick with covid, I need an ambulance"

"OK, whats your health number? I need to check did you get the vaccine."

"I didn't get it, its all a big pharma conspiracy"

"Ah, well, in that case, the ambulance might take quite some time to get to you - your straight to the bottom of the queue. We'll prioritise folks that followed public health advice."
Much as that would be a nice gotcha, health services can't do that

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on February 08, 2021, 09:26:58 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 08, 2021, 09:20:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 08, 2021, 01:18:21 PM
But then there are the maybe 15-20% who will just not get it

I've an easy fix for that.

"Hello, operator, I'm sick with covid, I need an ambulance"

"OK, whats your health number? I need to check did you get the vaccine."

"I didn't get it, its all a big pharma conspiracy"

"Ah, well, in that case, the ambulance might take quite some time to get to you - your straight to the bottom of the queue. We'll prioritise folks that followed public health advice." without Bill Gates's tracking device we have no way of finding you.

Fixed that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 08, 2021, 09:34:18 PM
Thought what yer man Bell from Oxford said on C4 News this evening was interesting

Very early data suggests that mixing different types of vaccines, ie. MRNA, adenovirus, protein based or whole virus vaccines - could give "a much greater breadth and depth of immune response"

Whatever that means

Says there is a lot of scope for further experimentation in this area and that it won't take a long time, such experiments take "a couple of weeks"

Really does look like the Oxford Astra Zeneca vaccine is pretty much a bust against the SA variant though, which is a bit shit

There was talk on the same programme that the SA variant is not that much more transmissible if at all than original Covid, but then again it's also been said that it's around 50% more transmissible

I think this South African bugger is one of the main reasons why it's definitely not just a case of vaccinate the elderly and open up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 08, 2021, 10:04:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 08, 2021, 09:34:18 PM
Thought what yer man Bell from Oxford said on C4 News this evening was interesting

Very early data suggests that mixing different types of vaccines, ie. MRNA, adenovirus, protein based or whole virus vaccines - could give "a much greater breadth and depth of immune response"

Whatever that means

Says there is a lot of scope for further experimentation in this area and that it won't take a long time, such experiments take "a couple of weeks"


I have an incomplete understanding of this. But I think the Oxford and Sputnik vaccines are based on other harmless or deactivated viruses which have been engeering to incorporate part of the Covid spike. The problem is that to some extent you are immune to the second shot because of the first one. Hence the experiments with Oxford and Sputnik, both work in a similar way and are cheap and easy to handle, but they use different base viruses.
It could be that some combination of these things will be the knockout. Also perhaps you could give people one shot of Oxford now and then a shot of a modified vaccine in a couple of months, having some protection in the meantime and the modification could include the SA variant.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 08, 2021, 10:37:38 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 08, 2021, 09:20:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 08, 2021, 01:18:21 PM
But then there are the maybe 15-20% who will just not get it

I've an easy fix for that.

"Hello, operator, I'm sick with covid, I need an ambulance"

"OK, whats your health number? I need to check did you get the vaccine."

"I didn't get it, its all a big pharma conspiracy"

"Ah, well, in that case, the ambulance might take quite some time to get to you - your straight to the bottom of the queue. We'll prioritise folks that followed public health advice."

So if someone is having a heart attack, they don't get an ambulance if they smoke the odd fag or eat the odd burger?

Or how about...

- Hello, Mourne Rescue? I'm stuck up on Slieve Donard. I slipped and hurt my ankle, and I cant get down.
What are you wearing on your feet, big lad?
- Adidas trainers.
You can f**kin stay up there then!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on February 08, 2021, 10:38:19 PM
only 95% effective? Benny check the effective % for the flu each year and how effective vaccines was on previous viruses to see how remarkable it is to have one with 95%.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 09, 2021, 08:38:35 AM
That was my thinking too. Only 95% effective lol. There's no pleasing some people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on February 09, 2021, 08:56:05 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 08, 2021, 10:38:19 PM
only 95% effective? Benny check the effective % for the flu each year and how effective vaccines was on previous viruses to see how remarkable it is to have one with 95%.

its unreal how well they've done to get vaccines with that high a percentage, some people just want to listen to the doom and gloom, there is so much to be positive about with regards where we are at the minute. Personally I have stopped watching the news on BBC ITV or sky, they just want negativity all the time, its actually a disgrace how they get away with being so negative in a time where people need reassurance. For balance I stick on the Channel 4 news at 7 most evenings, balanced and far better put across than the other broadcasters. We're nearly there, light at the end of the tunnel, lets keep the positivity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on February 09, 2021, 09:28:36 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on February 09, 2021, 08:56:05 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 08, 2021, 10:38:19 PM
only 95% effective? Benny check the effective % for the flu each year and how effective vaccines was on previous viruses to see how remarkable it is to have one with 95%.

its unreal how well they've done to get vaccines with that high a percentage, some people just want to listen to the doom and gloom, there is so much to be positive about with regards where we are at the minute. Personally I have stopped watching the news on BBC ITV or sky, they just want negativity all the time, its actually a disgrace how they get away with being so negative in a time where people need reassurance. For balance I stick on the Channel 4 news at 7 most evenings, balanced and far better put across than the other broadcasters. We're nearly there, light at the end of the tunnel, lets keep the positivity.
!00%.  Somebody needs to have a word with Tony Hoolahan as well. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 10:08:53 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 08, 2021, 10:38:19 PM
only 95% effective? Benny check the effective % for the flu each year and how effective vaccines was on previous viruses to see how remarkable it is to have one with 95%.

I think the legal minimum requirement is 50% isn't it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 08, 2021, 10:37:38 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 08, 2021, 09:20:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 08, 2021, 01:18:21 PM
But then there are the maybe 15-20% who will just not get it

I've an easy fix for that.

"Hello, operator, I'm sick with covid, I need an ambulance"

"OK, whats your health number? I need to check did you get the vaccine."

"I didn't get it, its all a big pharma conspiracy"

"Ah, well, in that case, the ambulance might take quite some time to get to you - your straight to the bottom of the queue. We'll prioritise folks that followed public health advice."

So if someone is having a heart attack, they don't get an ambulance if they smoke the odd fag or eat the odd burger?

Or how about...

- Hello, Mourne Rescue? I'm stuck up on Slieve Donard. I slipped and hurt my ankle, and I cant get down.
What are you wearing on your feet, big lad?
- Adidas trainers.
You can f**kin stay up there then!

Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 09, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.

You are no longer allowed to smoke in places where your smoke will damage other people. You can drink, but not if you drive, and driving cars generally is subject to a lot of rules, from having to have a driving test, MOT, etc. You cannot pursue a career as a truck driver if you do not pass the required test and you should not have  career as a nurse if do not get a vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on February 09, 2021, 11:41:29 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.

You've ben asked by more learned posters that yourself to explain specifically what the reservations are. As far as I can see you couldn't actually do that and what sh1te you did post was rebuked by FACTS.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 09, 2021, 11:52:37 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.

You are no longer allowed to smoke in places where your smoke will damage other people. You can drink, but not if you drive, and driving cars generally is subject to a lot of rules, from having to have a driving test, MOT, etc. You cannot pursue a career as a truck driver if you do not pass the required test and you should not have  career as a nurse if do not get a vaccine.
Maybe Angelo should answer if he thinks people who refuse to get a vaccine should be employed as a nurse, or a carer?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 09, 2021, 11:55:12 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 08, 2021, 10:37:38 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 08, 2021, 09:20:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 08, 2021, 01:18:21 PM
But then there are the maybe 15-20% who will just not get it

I've an easy fix for that.

"Hello, operator, I'm sick with covid, I need an ambulance"

"OK, whats your health number? I need to check did you get the vaccine."

"I didn't get it, its all a big pharma conspiracy"

"Ah, well, in that case, the ambulance might take quite some time to get to you - your straight to the bottom of the queue. We'll prioritise folks that followed public health advice."

So if someone is having a heart attack, they don't get an ambulance if they smoke the odd fag or eat the odd burger?

Or how about...

- Hello, Mourne Rescue? I'm stuck up on Slieve Donard. I slipped and hurt my ankle, and I cant get down.
What are you wearing on your feet, big lad?
- Adidas trainers.
You can f**kin stay up there then!

Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.
Do you think Radio GAA GAA genuinely believes that people who refuse to get a vaccine should be denied medical treatment?

Or does it just suit your pretend "argument" to pretend you think that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 01:55:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.

You are no longer allowed to smoke in places where your smoke will damage other people. You can drink, but not if you drive, and driving cars generally is subject to a lot of rules, from having to have a driving test, MOT, etc. You cannot pursue a career as a truck driver if you do not pass the required test and you should not have  career as a nurse if do not get a vaccine.

Welcome to Nazi Germany people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on February 09, 2021, 02:06:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 01:55:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.

You are no longer allowed to smoke in places where your smoke will damage other people. You can drink, but not if you drive, and driving cars generally is subject to a lot of rules, from having to have a driving test, MOT, etc. You cannot pursue a career as a truck driver if you do not pass the required test and you should not have  career as a nurse if do not get a vaccine.

Welcome to Nazi Germany people.

There is no way any nurse should be reticent at all about taking the vaccine. A nurse is in charge of vulnerable and sick people. With the incubation period of up to 2 weeks for this virus an infected nurse could spread the virus to numerous people before she developed any symptoms and got herself tested. I know some nurses are refusing the vaccine but in my book they should be suspended without pay until they are vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 02:07:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.

You are no longer allowed to smoke in places where your smoke will damage other people. You can drink, but not if you drive, and driving cars generally is subject to a lot of rules, from having to have a driving test, MOT, etc. You cannot pursue a career as a truck driver if you do not pass the required test and you should not have  career as a nurse if do not get a vaccine.

Not true, you can still smoke in the company of other people, in your own household with other people, in lightly ventilated areas in bars and it leads to various forms of cancer which cause huge drains on the health service.

Likewise alcohol.

Likewise road accidents.

Likewise fast food and other high fat/high sugar foods and drinks.

But zealots like you look at the world through a very narrow lens.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 02:09:00 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 01:55:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.

You are no longer allowed to smoke in places where your smoke will damage other people. You can drink, but not if you drive, and driving cars generally is subject to a lot of rules, from having to have a driving test, MOT, etc. You cannot pursue a career as a truck driver if you do not pass the required test and you should not have  career as a nurse if do not get a vaccine.

Welcome to Nazi Germany people.

Exactly, the pandemic has enticed the far right out of their closet.

The dogmatic nonsense from the likes of Radio, Sid and Armaghniac is frightening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 09, 2021, 02:15:42 PM
The north of Ireland has reported the lowest number of cases on a day today for 4 and a half months
You tell me it's not seasonal
Let's start moving towards talk of slowly opening our country and to get some form of life back
With the restrictions announcement due in 10 days what will be first to lift on March 5th?

Schools?
Pubs?
Restaurants?
Retail?
Leisure?
Sports?


Let's move from the doom and gloom that milltown and the lads keep putting out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 09, 2021, 02:27:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 01:55:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.

You are no longer allowed to smoke in places where your smoke will damage other people. You can drink, but not if you drive, and driving cars generally is subject to a lot of rules, from having to have a driving test, MOT, etc. You cannot pursue a career as a truck driver if you do not pass the required test and you should not have  career as a nurse if do not get a vaccine.

Welcome to Nazi Germany people.

What a leap
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on February 09, 2021, 02:29:36 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 09, 2021, 02:15:42 PM
The north of Ireland has reported the lowest number of cases on a day today for 4 and a half months
You tell me it's not seasonal
Let's start moving towards talk of slowly opening our country and to get some form of life back
With the restrictions announcement due in 10 days what will be first to lift on March 5th?

Schools?
Pubs?
Restaurants?
Retail?
Leisure?
Sports?


Let's move from the doom and gloom that milltown and the lads keep putting out

It's not seasonal
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on February 09, 2021, 02:37:27 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 09, 2021, 02:06:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 01:55:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.

You are no longer allowed to smoke in places where your smoke will damage other people. You can drink, but not if you drive, and driving cars generally is subject to a lot of rules, from having to have a driving test, MOT, etc. You cannot pursue a career as a truck driver if you do not pass the required test and you should not have  career as a nurse if do not get a vaccine.

Welcome to Nazi Germany people.

There is no way any nurse should be reticent at all about taking the vaccine. A nurse is in charge of vulnerable and sick people. With the incubation period of up to 2 weeks for this virus an infected nurse could spread the virus to numerous people before she developed any symptoms and got herself tested. I know some nurses are refusing the vaccine but in my book they should be suspended without pay until they are vaccinated.

Not debating the rights and wrongs of this but Extremely unlikely to happen for a whole raft of reasons.
      Their employer's would be setting themselves for an employment tribunal and at this stage they would lose.
      One possibility is redeployment for those unwilling to take the vaccine.
       There is actually precedent for NHS workers(or contractors employed by the nhs) needing to be vaccinated for other conditions, before taking employment.
       
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 02:39:45 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 09, 2021, 02:15:42 PM
The north of Ireland has reported the lowest number of cases on a day today for 4 and a half months
You tell me it's not seasonal
Let's start moving towards talk of slowly opening our country and to get some form of life back
With the restrictions announcement due in 10 days what will be first to lift on March 5th?

Schools?
Pubs?
Restaurants?
Retail?
Leisure?
Sports?


Let's move from the doom and gloom that milltown and the lads keep putting out

Expecting this to be received well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on February 09, 2021, 02:50:06 PM
275 new cases in the North as at 09/02/21,  lowest since 1st of October.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 02:53:07 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 09, 2021, 02:15:42 PM
The north of Ireland has reported the lowest number of cases on a day today for 4 and a half months
You tell me it's not seasonal
Let's start moving towards talk of slowly opening our country and to get some form of life back
With the restrictions announcement due in 10 days what will be first to lift on March 5th?

Schools?
Pubs?
Restaurants?
Retail?
Leisure?
Sports?


Let's move from the doom and gloom that milltown and the lads keep putting out

Hopefully the barbers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 02:53:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 09, 2021, 11:55:12 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 08, 2021, 10:37:38 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 08, 2021, 09:20:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 08, 2021, 01:18:21 PM
But then there are the maybe 15-20% who will just not get it

I've an easy fix for that.

"Hello, operator, I'm sick with covid, I need an ambulance"

"OK, whats your health number? I need to check did you get the vaccine."

"I didn't get it, its all a big pharma conspiracy"

"Ah, well, in that case, the ambulance might take quite some time to get to you - your straight to the bottom of the queue. We'll prioritise folks that followed public health advice."

So if someone is having a heart attack, they don't get an ambulance if they smoke the odd fag or eat the odd burger?

Or how about...

- Hello, Mourne Rescue? I'm stuck up on Slieve Donard. I slipped and hurt my ankle, and I cant get down.
What are you wearing on your feet, big lad?
- Adidas trainers.
You can f**kin stay up there then!

Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.
Do you think Radio GAA GAA genuinely believes that people who refuse to get a vaccine should be denied medical treatment?

Or does it just suit your pretend "argument" to pretend you think that?

That's what he said. Why don't we ask him?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on February 09, 2021, 02:58:29 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 09, 2021, 02:06:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 01:55:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.

You are no longer allowed to smoke in places where your smoke will damage other people. You can drink, but not if you drive, and driving cars generally is subject to a lot of rules, from having to have a driving test, MOT, etc. You cannot pursue a career as a truck driver if you do not pass the required test and you should not have  career as a nurse if do not get a vaccine.

Welcome to Nazi Germany people.

There is no way any nurse should be reticent at all about taking the vaccine. A nurse is in charge of vulnerable and sick people. With the incubation period of up to 2 weeks for this virus an infected nurse could spread the virus to numerous people before she developed any symptoms and got herself tested. I know some nurses are refusing the vaccine but in my book they should be suspended without pay until they are vaccinated.

:o :o :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 02:58:40 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 09, 2021, 02:06:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 01:55:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.

You are no longer allowed to smoke in places where your smoke will damage other people. You can drink, but not if you drive, and driving cars generally is subject to a lot of rules, from having to have a driving test, MOT, etc. You cannot pursue a career as a truck driver if you do not pass the required test and you should not have  career as a nurse if do not get a vaccine.

Welcome to Nazi Germany people.

There is no way any nurse should be reticent at all about taking the vaccine. A nurse is in charge of vulnerable and sick people. With the incubation period of up to 2 weeks for this virus an infected nurse could spread the virus to numerous people before she developed any symptoms and got herself tested. I know some nurses are refusing the vaccine but in my book they should be suspended without pay until they are vaccinated.

But the vaccine doesn't stop transmission of the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: South Laois man on February 09, 2021, 03:17:40 PM
Benny more data is due on that in the next couple of weeks. But it looks like vaccines at least reduce transmission.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 03:19:32 PM
I think.....the vaccine is proven to reduce viral load, therefore it has an effect on reduction of transmission by same token.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 09, 2021, 03:42:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 02:58:40 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 09, 2021, 02:06:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 01:55:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.

You are no longer allowed to smoke in places where your smoke will damage other people. You can drink, but not if you drive, and driving cars generally is subject to a lot of rules, from having to have a driving test, MOT, etc. You cannot pursue a career as a truck driver if you do not pass the required test and you should not have  career as a nurse if do not get a vaccine.

Welcome to Nazi Germany people.

There is no way any nurse should be reticent at all about taking the vaccine. A nurse is in charge of vulnerable and sick people. With the incubation period of up to 2 weeks for this virus an infected nurse could spread the virus to numerous people before she developed any symptoms and got herself tested. I know some nurses are refusing the vaccine but in my book they should be suspended without pay until they are vaccinated.

But the vaccine doesn't stop transmission of the virus.

There isn't enough data available to confirm if the vaccine does or doesn't prevent transmission of the virus. In an early study of the Astra Zeneca vaccine experts believe it can reduce the transmission of the virus.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3777268

If people aren't vaccinated then case numbers won't fall and the country can't ease the lockdown restrictions. Also if people get vaccinated they are unlikely to get covid and they then are unlikely to pass it on, which is a major issue for nurses dealing with elderly people in nursing homes or hospital patients whose immune systems would be weak due to their relevant illness   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 03:44:42 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on February 09, 2021, 02:50:06 PM
275 new cases in the North as at 09/02/21,  lowest since 1st of October.

Not a whole pile about it in the media either. Good news doesn't sell.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 03:53:39 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 09, 2021, 03:42:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 02:58:40 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 09, 2021, 02:06:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 01:55:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.

You are no longer allowed to smoke in places where your smoke will damage other people. You can drink, but not if you drive, and driving cars generally is subject to a lot of rules, from having to have a driving test, MOT, etc. You cannot pursue a career as a truck driver if you do not pass the required test and you should not have  career as a nurse if do not get a vaccine.

Welcome to Nazi Germany people.

There is no way any nurse should be reticent at all about taking the vaccine. A nurse is in charge of vulnerable and sick people. With the incubation period of up to 2 weeks for this virus an infected nurse could spread the virus to numerous people before she developed any symptoms and got herself tested. I know some nurses are refusing the vaccine but in my book they should be suspended without pay until they are vaccinated.

But the vaccine doesn't stop transmission of the virus.

There isn't enough data available to confirm if the vaccine does or doesn't prevent transmission of the virus. In an early study of the Astra Zeneca vaccine experts believe it can reduce the transmission of the virus.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3777268

If people aren't vaccinated then case numbers won't fall and the country can't ease the lockdown restrictions. Also if people get vaccinated they are unlikely to get covid and they then are unlikely to pass it on, which is a major issue for nurses dealing with elderly people in nursing homes or hospital patients whose immune systems would be weak due to their relevant illness

What experts? Astra Zeneca's experts?

And by how much does it reduce it? 50%? 85%? 5%? 0.00001%? It's all a bit vague, don't you think?

I mean, do you really trust these people? Because I certainly don't!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 09, 2021, 03:54:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 02:53:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 09, 2021, 11:55:12 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 08, 2021, 10:37:38 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on February 08, 2021, 09:20:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 08, 2021, 01:18:21 PM
But then there are the maybe 15-20% who will just not get it

I've an easy fix for that.

"Hello, operator, I'm sick with covid, I need an ambulance"

"OK, whats your health number? I need to check did you get the vaccine."

"I didn't get it, its all a big pharma conspiracy"

"Ah, well, in that case, the ambulance might take quite some time to get to you - your straight to the bottom of the queue. We'll prioritise folks that followed public health advice."

So if someone is having a heart attack, they don't get an ambulance if they smoke the odd fag or eat the odd burger?

Or how about...

- Hello, Mourne Rescue? I'm stuck up on Slieve Donard. I slipped and hurt my ankle, and I cant get down.
What are you wearing on your feet, big lad?
- Adidas trainers.
You can f**kin stay up there then!

Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.
Do you think Radio GAA GAA genuinely believes that people who refuse to get a vaccine should be denied medical treatment?

Or does it just suit your pretend "argument" to pretend you think that?

That's what he said. Why don't we ask him?
You didn't answer the question
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 09, 2021, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 01:55:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.

You are no longer allowed to smoke in places where your smoke will damage other people. You can drink, but not if you drive, and driving cars generally is subject to a lot of rules, from having to have a driving test, MOT, etc. You cannot pursue a career as a truck driver if you do not pass the required test and you should not have  career as a nurse if do not get a vaccine.

Welcome to Nazi Germany people.
Think you'll find the Nazis much preferred killing off the sick and the elderly to saving them

Anti-lockdowners, Covid denialists and general professional contrarians do a mean line in complaining about justified and historically literate Nazi references and then using ludicrous, unironic, historically illiterate ones themselves

Case in point there
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 09, 2021, 04:04:42 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 03:53:39 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 09, 2021, 03:42:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 02:58:40 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 09, 2021, 02:06:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 01:55:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.

You are no longer allowed to smoke in places where your smoke will damage other people. You can drink, but not if you drive, and driving cars generally is subject to a lot of rules, from having to have a driving test, MOT, etc. You cannot pursue a career as a truck driver if you do not pass the required test and you should not have  career as a nurse if do not get a vaccine.

Welcome to Nazi Germany people.

There is no way any nurse should be reticent at all about taking the vaccine. A nurse is in charge of vulnerable and sick people. With the incubation period of up to 2 weeks for this virus an infected nurse could spread the virus to numerous people before she developed any symptoms and got herself tested. I know some nurses are refusing the vaccine but in my book they should be suspended without pay until they are vaccinated.

But the vaccine doesn't stop transmission of the virus.

There isn't enough data available to confirm if the vaccine does or doesn't prevent transmission of the virus. In an early study of the Astra Zeneca vaccine experts believe it can reduce the transmission of the virus.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3777268

If people aren't vaccinated then case numbers won't fall and the country can't ease the lockdown restrictions. Also if people get vaccinated they are unlikely to get covid and they then are unlikely to pass it on, which is a major issue for nurses dealing with elderly people in nursing homes or hospital patients whose immune systems would be weak due to their relevant illness

What experts? Astra Zeneca's experts?

And by how much does it reduce it? 50%? 85%? 5%? 0.00001%? It's all a bit vague, don't you think?

I mean, do you really trust these people? Because I certainly don't!
If you looked at the paper the people/organisations involved (and not limited to) includes the following:

South African Medical Research Council
College of Medical, Veterinary & Life Sciences, Glasgow Dental Hospital & School, University of
Glasgow
Department of Infection, Guy's and St Thomas' NHS Foundation Trust, St Thomas' Hospital, London
Department of Clinical Sciences, Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine and Liverpool University
Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust

This paper has  been presented for peer review to all medical professionals so if the results are doctored or fudged as you think then it will soon be brought to light. Until then I'm happy to believe the medical experts opinion
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 04:21:53 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 09, 2021, 04:04:42 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 03:53:39 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 09, 2021, 03:42:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 02:58:40 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 09, 2021, 02:06:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 01:55:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.

You are no longer allowed to smoke in places where your smoke will damage other people. You can drink, but not if you drive, and driving cars generally is subject to a lot of rules, from having to have a driving test, MOT, etc. You cannot pursue a career as a truck driver if you do not pass the required test and you should not have  career as a nurse if do not get a vaccine.

Welcome to Nazi Germany people.

There is no way any nurse should be reticent at all about taking the vaccine. A nurse is in charge of vulnerable and sick people. With the incubation period of up to 2 weeks for this virus an infected nurse could spread the virus to numerous people before she developed any symptoms and got herself tested. I know some nurses are refusing the vaccine but in my book they should be suspended without pay until they are vaccinated.

But the vaccine doesn't stop transmission of the virus.

There isn't enough data available to confirm if the vaccine does or doesn't prevent transmission of the virus. In an early study of the Astra Zeneca vaccine experts believe it can reduce the transmission of the virus.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3777268

If people aren't vaccinated then case numbers won't fall and the country can't ease the lockdown restrictions. Also if people get vaccinated they are unlikely to get covid and they then are unlikely to pass it on, which is a major issue for nurses dealing with elderly people in nursing homes or hospital patients whose immune systems would be weak due to their relevant illness

What experts? Astra Zeneca's experts?

And by how much does it reduce it? 50%? 85%? 5%? 0.00001%? It's all a bit vague, don't you think?

I mean, do you really trust these people? Because I certainly don't!
If you looked at the paper the people/organisations involved (and not limited to) includes the following:

South African Medical Research Council
College of Medical, Veterinary & Life Sciences, Glasgow Dental Hospital & School, University of
Glasgow
Department of Infection, Guy's and St Thomas' NHS Foundation Trust, St Thomas' Hospital, London
Department of Clinical Sciences, Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine and Liverpool University
Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust

This paper has  been presented for peer review to all medical professionals so if the results are doctored or fudged as you think then it will soon be brought to light. Until then I'm happy to believe the medical experts opinion

Sure it will.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 04:24:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 09, 2021, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 01:55:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.

You are no longer allowed to smoke in places where your smoke will damage other people. You can drink, but not if you drive, and driving cars generally is subject to a lot of rules, from having to have a driving test, MOT, etc. You cannot pursue a career as a truck driver if you do not pass the required test and you should not have  career as a nurse if do not get a vaccine.

Welcome to Nazi Germany people.
Think you'll find the Nazis much preferred killing off the sick and the elderly to saving them

Anti-lockdowners, Covid denialists and general professional contrarians do a mean line in complaining about justified and historically literate Nazi references and then using ludicrous, unironic, historically illiterate ones themselves

Case in point there

The Nazis were also zealots who discriminated against those who did not conform with their views.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 09, 2021, 04:40:58 PM
Won't be getting th'oul hair cut till Easter it seems

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0209/1196068-covid-plan/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 09, 2021, 04:49:41 PM
Leo going on a solo run again. It seems like he is still the boss

The lowest recorded cases count in 9 weeks in the uk

What will change next Thursday

By the date of a potential easing of some restrictions we will be down to double figure cases

That ok top of about 40% of the adult population having received at least 1 vaccination

Hospital occupancy down almost 50%

Something has to give somewhere

Watch the goalposts move this week. The government will try ease us in that another extension to everything is on the cards

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 09, 2021, 05:01:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 04:24:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 09, 2021, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 09, 2021, 01:55:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2021, 11:37:13 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Zealots like Radio only discriminate against people with reservations on a hastily manufactured and tested vaccine. People drink, smoke and drive their cars in the knowledge that those actions could lead to deaths but in Radio's warped view of the world he only decides to discriminate against one type of people.

You are no longer allowed to smoke in places where your smoke will damage other people. You can drink, but not if you drive, and driving cars generally is subject to a lot of rules, from having to have a driving test, MOT, etc. You cannot pursue a career as a truck driver if you do not pass the required test and you should not have  career as a nurse if do not get a vaccine.

Welcome to Nazi Germany people.
Think you'll find the Nazis much preferred killing off the sick and the elderly to saving them

Anti-lockdowners, Covid denialists and general professional contrarians do a mean line in complaining about justified and historically literate Nazi references and then using ludicrous, unironic, historically illiterate ones themselves

Case in point there

The Nazis were also zealots who discriminated against those who did not conform with their views.
Sure by that rationale, public bodies should not have the right to not employ Holocaust deniers

In your book, the anti-Nazis are the real Nazis

Your extremely limited mind is full of sorts of ludicrous contradictions such as this



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 09, 2021, 05:04:17 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 09, 2021, 04:49:41 PM
Leo going on a solo run again. It seems like he is still the boss

The lowest recorded cases count in 9 weeks in the uk

What will change next Thursday

By the date of a potential easing of some restrictions we will be down to double figure cases

That ok top of about 40% of the adult population having received at least 1 vaccination

Hospital occupancy down almost 50%

Something has to give somewhere

Watch the goalposts move this week. The government will try ease us in that another extension to everything is on the cards
So you propose again making the exact same mistake that was made twice before?

Yeah, because that'll work

Some people never learn
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 09, 2021, 05:06:07 PM
Lads - no one wants a lockdown - Public,Businesses, Government, Public Health, Scientists etc etc. It's no fun for anyone and massive consequences for everyone. There is no winners.

Cases and all the indicators have dropped - brilliant and it's getting positive on Vaccines, slowly in ROI but more so in UK.

But let's not all get excited and unbolt the door for a sake of a few weeks. We wanted restrictions eased for Xmas and it had a huge consequence.

With an end, please god, in sight there shouldn't be mass removal of restrictions but a prudent lifting so that they don't have to come back on any level. That's what everyone wants, normality.

We have to be reasonable to get free of these godforsaken times once and for all. Let's not even consider an alternative at present.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 09, 2021, 05:11:03 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 09, 2021, 05:06:07 PM
Lads - no one wants a lockdown - Public,Businesses, Government, Public Health, Scientists etc etc. It's no fun for anyone and massive consequences for everyone. There is no winners.

Cases and all the indicators have dropped - brilliant and it's getting positive on Vaccines, slowly in ROI but more so in UK.

But let's not all get excited and unbolt the door for a sake of a few weeks. We wanted restrictions eased for Xmas and it had a huge consequence.

With an end, please god, in sight there shouldn't be mass removal of restrictions but a prudent lifting so that they don't have to come back on any level. That's what everyone wants, normality.

We have to be reasonable to get free of these godforsaken times once and for all. Let's not even consider an alternative at present.

The 5th March is nearly a month away. It's unfair to expect the government to say today what they' do in a months time given how quickly things can change. The daily case figures are still at or above the 1,000 mark and they have consistently said they want to see low case numbers on a consistent basis before opening up.

Leo did they will release a road map for were they see the country going on the 22nd. That seems fair enough to me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 09, 2021, 05:13:54 PM
I am not for one second saying to lift all restrictions far from it
But what I will say is some restrictions need to go
What affect is 4 lads playing golf and going home after?
A tennis court opening ?
Gyms

Certainly not suggestion opening pubs. No where near it

Outdoor activities need to reopen
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 09, 2021, 05:22:42 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 09, 2021, 05:13:54 PM
I am not for one second saying to lift all restrictions far from it
But what I will say is some restrictions need to go
What affect is 4 lads playing golf and going home after?
A tennis court opening ?
Gyms

Certainly not suggestion opening pubs. No where near it

Outdoor activities need to reopen

If you go to the RTE website this is the main story on the homepage.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0209/1196068-covid-plan/

If you click on the story the first line is: The Tánaiste has said the Government is working on a revised version of the "Living with Covid-19" plan which he hopes be announced in the week of 22 February.

What more do you want?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 09, 2021, 05:23:56 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 09, 2021, 05:13:54 PM
I am not for one second saying to lift all restrictions far from it
But what I will say is some restrictions need to go
What affect is 4 lads playing golf and going home after?
A tennis court opening ?
Gyms

Certainly not suggestion opening pubs. No where near it

Outdoor activities need to reopen

It will be great to see these things come back but is it not wiser to wait for 2/3 weeks and see how all holds up with Vaccines and drive cases down another level.

For me. The schools are the first thing to consider opening and whatever form that takes, be it reduced day's initially or whatever but it's a group that should be looked at first.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 09, 2021, 05:26:26 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 09, 2021, 05:11:03 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 09, 2021, 05:06:07 PM
Lads - no one wants a lockdown - Public,Businesses, Government, Public Health, Scientists etc etc. It's no fun for anyone and massive consequences for everyone. There is no winners.

Cases and all the indicators have dropped - brilliant and it's getting positive on Vaccines, slowly in ROI but more so in UK.

But let's not all get excited and unbolt the door for a sake of a few weeks. We wanted restrictions eased for Xmas and it had a huge consequence.

With an end, please god, in sight there shouldn't be mass removal of restrictions but a prudent lifting so that they don't have to come back on any level. That's what everyone wants, normality.

We have to be reasonable to get free of these godforsaken times once and for all. Let's not even consider an alternative at present.

The 5th March is nearly a month away. It's unfair to expect the government to say today what they' do in a months time given how quickly things can change. The daily case figures are still at or above the 1,000 mark and they have consistently said they want to see low case numbers on a consistent basis before opening up.

Leo did they will release a road map for were they see the country going on the 22nd. That seems fair enough to me.
We're still bobbing around the 1000 cases per day

March 5th is three and a half weeks away and it seems unlikely we'll have got down to, say, 200 cases by then - 200 cases being where we previously opened up with disastrous effect on December 1st

Even if we did, it's not a safe starting point to open up - especially given we now have the super transmissible UK variant becoming dominant

Also March 5th is still pretty much winter, you'd really have to get into April at least before we'd start seeing any benefit from the change of season and the possible beneficial effect that might have on the number of Covid cases

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 05:34:02 PM
The North posts its best figures in some months today.

How does the CMO react?

Tells people that restrictions won't be fully lifted until 70-80% of population is vaccinated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56000840

There are some people very happy in the limelight during this pandemic. This gentleman is one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 09, 2021, 05:37:39 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 05:34:02 PM
The North posts its best figures in some months today.

How does the CMO react?

Tells people that restrictions won't be fully lifted until 70-80% of population is vaccinated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56000840

There are some people very happy in the limelight during this pandemic. This gentleman is one.

Yeah, he flipped a coin years ago to either become a highly trained medical officer or go on the X factor to bask in the limelight. He can't believe his luck that a chance has come up to do both, he going to make it last.  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 09, 2021, 05:47:37 PM
Agree about waiting those extra few weeks.
5th March is still 3 weeks away so if the even came out and said something will lift March 19
Don't you get it a lot of these people have got very well known during this pandemic
Daily briefings
Daily interviews in papers
Radio at least twice a week

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 09, 2021, 06:23:04 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 05:34:02 PM
The North posts its best figures in some months today.

How does the CMO react?

Tells people that restrictions won't be fully lifted until 70-80% of population is vaccinated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56000840

There are some people very happy in the limelight during this pandemic. This gentleman is one.
I don't see how the NI Chief Medical Officer making a pertinent point about how and when we get out of this pandemic equals "wanting the limelight"

He is imparting important information to the public

One of the tricks of populist politics, especially right-wing populist politics, is to deliberately ascribe a bad faith motive to public servants in order to portray what they say as not worth listening to

This trick is itself a classic example of extreme bad faith

The godfather of US right-wing "libertarianism", James Buchanan consistently pushed this trick in order to undermine the very concept of government and public service, and it it was one of the seeds that germinated into today's Trumpism

This sort of trick is cancerous for informed public debate and was always designed to be so
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 06:28:56 PM
Ah Sid, you've played out the philosophical rants on this board re: the right wing / trump whatever. Your like Brolly at this stage, veering to get it into whatever the post on the board may be. It's the same stuff.

Stick to the topic lad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 09, 2021, 06:33:31 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 06:28:56 PM
Ah Sid, you've played out the philosophical rants on this board re: the right wing / trump whatever. Your like Brolly at this stage, veering to get it into whatever the post on the board may be. It's the same stuff.

Stick to the topic lad.
The NI CMO was imparting important information to the public

Exactly what about that do you have a problem with?

It is important that the public understand what needs to be done to get out of this pandemic

Lack of knowledge is why we have people saying "vaccinate the over 70s and this is over"

Unfortunately that is not the case
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on February 09, 2021, 06:55:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 09, 2021, 05:26:26 PMe
Quote from: dublin7 on February 09, 2021, 05:11:03 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 09, 2021, 05:06:07 PM
Lads - no one wants a lockdown - Public,Businesses, Government, Public Health, Scientists etc etc. It's no fun for anyone and massive consequences for everyone. There is no winners.

Cases and all the indicators have dropped - brilliant and it's getting positive on Vaccines, slowly in ROI but more so in UK.

But let's not all get excited and unbolt the door for a sake of a few weeks. We wanted restrictions eased for Xmas and it had a huge consequence.

With an end, please god, in sight there shouldn't be mass removal of restrictions but a prudent lifting so that they don't have to come back on any level. That's what everyone wants, normality.

We have to be reasonable to get free of these godforsaken times once and for all. Let's not even consider an alternative at present.

The 5th March is nearly a month away. It's unfair to expect the government to say today what they' do in a months time given how quickly things can change. The daily case figures are still at or above the 1,000 mark and they have consistently said they want to see low case numbers on a consistent basis before opening up.

Leo did they will release a road map for were they see the country going on the 22nd. That seems fair enough to me.
We're still bobbing around the 1000 cases per day

March 5th is three and a half weeks away and it seems unlikely we'll have got down to, say, 200 cases by then - 200 cases being where we previously opened up with disastrous effect on December 1st

Even if we did, it's not a safe starting point to open up - especially given we now have the super transmissible UK variant becoming dominant

Also March 5th is still pretty much winter, you'd really have to get into April at least before we'd start seeing any benefit from the change of season and the possible beneficial effect that might have on the number of Covid cases

7 day average is at 945 cases per day. Five day average is lower again 857.

NPHET reckon we are still on course for 200 to 400 cases per day average by the end of this month. At best it will level 4 or +4 restrictions in March,  what we had at Christmas was basically Level 2 restrictions and too many people letting their guards down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tonto1888 on February 09, 2021, 07:20:58 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 09, 2021, 05:37:39 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 05:34:02 PM
The North posts its best figures in some months today.

How does the CMO react?

Tells people that restrictions won't be fully lifted until 70-80% of population is vaccinated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56000840

There are some people very happy in the limelight during this pandemic. This gentleman is one.

Yeah, he flipped a coin years ago to either become a highly trained medical officer or go on the X factor to bask in the limelight. He can't believe his luck that a chance has come up to do both, he going to make it last.  ::)

This made me chuckle. Correct of course.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 09, 2021, 07:31:39 PM
Naw.
His choices were Medical Officer or GAAboard bullsh1t poster.
Smurfy and Angelo and 1 or 2 others' coins landed on the latter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on February 09, 2021, 07:35:28 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 05:34:02 PM
The North posts its best figures in some months today.

How does the CMO react?

Tells people that restrictions won't be fully lifted until 70-80% of population is vaccinated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56000840

There are some people very happy in the limelight during this pandemic. This gentleman is one.
Whilst I can see that the CMOs' roles both north and south is to keep a lid on things and be cautious they do need to bear people's mental health in mind when delivering their news. I do think they overcook the negativity and could present their opinions in a more balanced way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 09, 2021, 07:57:15 PM
Quote from: mackers on February 09, 2021, 07:35:28 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 05:34:02 PM
The North posts its best figures in some months today.

How does the CMO react?

Tells people that restrictions won't be fully lifted until 70-80% of population is vaccinated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56000840

There are some people very happy in the limelight during this pandemic. This gentleman is one.
Whilst I can see that the CMOs' roles both north and south is to keep a lid on things and be cautious they do need to bear people's mental health in mind when delivering their news. I do think they overcook the negativity and could present their opinions in a more balanced way.

There is a lot of opening up before we reach fully removing restrictions and in NI that number of adults can be vaccinated by the 12th of July. The problem is that the thing will still spread until children can be vaccinated and the vaccines are still being tested on under 16s.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 09, 2021, 10:12:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 09, 2021, 07:31:39 PM
Naw.
His choices were Medical Officer or GAAboard bullsh1t poster.
Smurfy and Angelo and 1 or 2 others' coins landed on the latter.

Oh look the chap who claims to have me on ignore but can't stop posting about me.

If I had thought you had any moral fibre I might ask if you are still going around cheerleading a lad who us going to be up on genocide charges as an authority on this virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: the goal was on on February 09, 2021, 10:17:24 PM
Yeah and the CMO does not decide when lockdowns end or lessen, there to provide advice, Mc bride often fails to answer difficult questions refering to the fact that he has no authority on policies ! Today though he seems to be deciding on restrictions into the future !!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 09, 2021, 10:41:14 PM
RTE Investigates a tough watch tonight showing the impact of Covid in Tallaght Hospital.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 10, 2021, 12:20:47 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 09, 2021, 10:41:14 PM
RTE Investigates a tough watch tonight showing the impact of Covid in Tallaght Hospital.

I didn't see it personally, but I imagine it's tougher for the medical staff than dealing with the flu
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 12:33:08 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 10, 2021, 12:20:47 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 09, 2021, 10:41:14 PM
RTE Investigates a tough watch tonight showing the impact of Covid in Tallaght Hospital.

I didn't see it personally, but I imagine it's tougher for the medical staff than dealing with the flu

Flu denier.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 10, 2021, 07:23:19 AM
No doubt it is a tough watch
Do you ever watch the programmes above starvation in kids in poor countries?
Also a very tough watch with millions of kids dying per year.
Never seen you make a comment about that
That's right because you ignore that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 07:51:43 AM
Abbot and Costello on form early today...

Two bluffers
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 10, 2021, 08:57:10 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 10, 2021, 07:23:19 AM
No doubt it is a tough watch
Do you ever watch the programmes above starvation in kids in poor countries?
Also a very tough watch with millions of kids dying per year.
Never seen you make a comment about that
That's right because you ignore that

If that's the level of your debate and response you're a pathetic individual. You can tell when someone has nothing constructive to say and the barrel has  already scraped, they just resort to whataboutery and try to make others feel guilty just to make themselves relevant.

As if you care about others, comment is lower than a snakes belly.

Pathetic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 09:19:32 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 10, 2021, 08:57:10 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 10, 2021, 07:23:19 AM
No doubt it is a tough watch
Do you ever watch the programmes above starvation in kids in poor countries?
Also a very tough watch with millions of kids dying per year.
Never seen you make a comment about that
That's right because you ignore that

If that's the level of your debate and response you're a pathetic individual. You can tell when someone has nothing constructive to say and the barrel has  already scraped, they just resort to whataboutery and try to make others feel guilty just to make themselves relevant.

As if you care about others, comment is lower than a snakes belly.

Pathetic.

He has a valid point and people like you don't live to have your faux outrage and faux hysteria shown up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on February 10, 2021, 09:45:11 AM
Angelo and Angelo lite will be busy today - hoping no one quotes them so I dont have to read nonsense.

Imagine being the font of all knowledge and not even being able to read a report on votes  ;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 09:53:37 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 09, 2021, 07:35:28 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 05:34:02 PM
The North posts its best figures in some months today.

How does the CMO react?

Tells people that restrictions won't be fully lifted until 70-80% of population is vaccinated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56000840

There are some people very happy in the limelight during this pandemic. This gentleman is one.
Whilst I can see that the CMOs' roles both north and south is to keep a lid on things and be cautious they do need to bear people's mental health in mind when delivering their news. I do think they overcook the negativity and could present their opinions in a more balanced way.

This is my point, of course other posters go on their usual rants as per some 800 pages of this topic.

The CMO is not an elected official. He has no need to be on a podium delivering gloom. Because he is not ever going to be answerable to the electorate like MON or AF he can basically say what he wants, how he wants. 

Saying that 70 or 80% needs to be vaccinated fuels the conspiracy nuts, which is what twitter when I clicked into it last night was full of unfortunately. Does that help the buy in ethos of the vaccine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 09:59:41 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 09:53:37 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 09, 2021, 07:35:28 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 05:34:02 PM
The North posts its best figures in some months today.

How does the CMO react?

Tells people that restrictions won't be fully lifted until 70-80% of population is vaccinated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56000840

There are some people very happy in the limelight during this pandemic. This gentleman is one.
Whilst I can see that the CMOs' roles both north and south is to keep a lid on things and be cautious they do need to bear people's mental health in mind when delivering their news. I do think they overcook the negativity and could present their opinions in a more balanced way.

This is my point, of course other posters go on their usual rants as per some 800 pages of this topic.

The CMO is not an elected official. He has no need to be on a podium delivering gloom. Because he is not ever going to be answerable to the electorate like MON or AF he can basically say what he wants, how he wants. 

Saying that 70 or 80% needs to be vaccinated fuels the conspiracy nuts, which is what twitter when I clicked into it last night was full of unfortunately. Does that help the buy in ethos of the vaccine?
Conspiracy nuts need no fuelling whatsoever, they are attention seekers and will seek attention in any way they can

Saying that 70 or 80% need to be vaccinated is the truth, it may not even be enough, it's widely thought that at least 85% take up may be needed because more transmissible variants are now becoming dominant

Were we not all agreed at the start of this pandemic that truth was essential, given the lessons of the Spanish Flu pandemic or a century ago?

I would have hoped we were agreed on that

But it seems some now want to repeat the same mistakes and want sugar coating and lies - not truth

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 10, 2021, 10:13:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 09:59:41 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 09:53:37 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 09, 2021, 07:35:28 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 05:34:02 PM
The North posts its best figures in some months today.

How does the CMO react?

Tells people that restrictions won't be fully lifted until 70-80% of population is vaccinated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56000840

There are some people very happy in the limelight during this pandemic. This gentleman is one.
Whilst I can see that the CMOs' roles both north and south is to keep a lid on things and be cautious they do need to bear people's mental health in mind when delivering their news. I do think they overcook the negativity and could present their opinions in a more balanced way.

This is my point, of course other posters go on their usual rants as per some 800 pages of this topic.

The CMO is not an elected official. He has no need to be on a podium delivering gloom. Because he is not ever going to be answerable to the electorate like MON or AF he can basically say what he wants, how he wants. 

Saying that 70 or 80% needs to be vaccinated fuels the conspiracy nuts, which is what twitter when I clicked into it last night was full of unfortunately. Does that help the buy in ethos of the vaccine?
Conspiracy nuts need no fuelling whatsoever, they are attention seekers and will seek attention in any way they can

Saying that 70 or 80% need to be vaccinated is the truth, it may not even be enough, it's widely thought that at least 85% take up may be needed because more transmissible variants are now becoming dominant

Were we not all agreed at the start of this pandemic that truth was essential, given the lessons of the Spanish Flu pandemic or a century ago?

I would have hoped we were agreed on that

But it seems some now want to repeat the same mistakes and want sugar coating and lies - not truth

Yes, of course everyone wants the truth where a pandemic is concerned, as it affects us all. But you're never going to get that while politicians, corrupt governments, mainstream media and big pharmaceuticals are concerned. Politicians are only concerned about themselves and their positions/parties, mainstream peddle their bullshit and pharmaceuticals are only concerned with making money.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 10:16:49 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 10, 2021, 10:13:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 09:59:41 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 09:53:37 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 09, 2021, 07:35:28 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 05:34:02 PM
The North posts its best figures in some months today.

How does the CMO react?

Tells people that restrictions won't be fully lifted until 70-80% of population is vaccinated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56000840

There are some people very happy in the limelight during this pandemic. This gentleman is one.
Whilst I can see that the CMOs' roles both north and south is to keep a lid on things and be cautious they do need to bear people's mental health in mind when delivering their news. I do think they overcook the negativity and could present their opinions in a more balanced way.

This is my point, of course other posters go on their usual rants as per some 800 pages of this topic.

The CMO is not an elected official. He has no need to be on a podium delivering gloom. Because he is not ever going to be answerable to the electorate like MON or AF he can basically say what he wants, how he wants. 

Saying that 70 or 80% needs to be vaccinated fuels the conspiracy nuts, which is what twitter when I clicked into it last night was full of unfortunately. Does that help the buy in ethos of the vaccine?
Conspiracy nuts need no fuelling whatsoever, they are attention seekers and will seek attention in any way they can

Saying that 70 or 80% need to be vaccinated is the truth, it may not even be enough, it's widely thought that at least 85% take up may be needed because more transmissible variants are now becoming dominant

Were we not all agreed at the start of this pandemic that truth was essential, given the lessons of the Spanish Flu pandemic or a century ago?

I would have hoped we were agreed on that

But it seems some now want to repeat the same mistakes and want sugar coating and lies - not truth

Yes, of course everyone wants the truth where a pandemic is concerned, as it affects us all. But you're never going to get that while politicians, corrupt governments, mainstream media and big pharmaceuticals are concerned. Politicians are only concerned about themselves and their positions/parties, mainstream peddle their bullshit and pharmaceuticals are only concerned with making money.
You peddle the cuckoo conspiracy theory that this is a plandemic so it's pretty obvious truth is the last thing you're interested in
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on February 10, 2021, 10:17:53 AM
Nobody wants lies. The nature of the delivery has to change. Like some on here the delivery of bad news seems to suit certain people.  You can imagine older people especially sitting in the house hearing this news.  They were told that we could see the light at the end of the tunnel and now he goes off on a tangent making analogies about cars and they think they're looking at a further year sitting in the house despite the fact they've been vaccinated.  Depressing stuff.  It's messing with people's heads.
I presume that he's not talking about the full lockdown that we're experiencing at the minute continuing into next year.  Give people an idea of what restrictions he's talking about next winter.  Will pubs be closed? Maybe.  That's unlikely to annoy too many pensioners so let them know that non-essential shops will probably open with masks.  Cafes will be open with social distancing applied.  Golf Courses and other outdoor sports which are low risk would probably still be open.  Extenuate the positive, not the negative.  Give people something to look forward to instead of the opposite.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 10:20:06 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 10, 2021, 10:17:53 AM
Nobody wants lies. The nature of the delivery has to change. Like some on here the delivery of bad news seems to suit certain people.
This makes no sense whatsoever
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 10:25:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 10:16:49 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 10, 2021, 10:13:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 09:59:41 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 09:53:37 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 09, 2021, 07:35:28 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 05:34:02 PM
The North posts its best figures in some months today.

How does the CMO react?

Tells people that restrictions won't be fully lifted until 70-80% of population is vaccinated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56000840

There are some people very happy in the limelight during this pandemic. This gentleman is one.
Whilst I can see that the CMOs' roles both north and south is to keep a lid on things and be cautious they do need to bear people's mental health in mind when delivering their news. I do think they overcook the negativity and could present their opinions in a more balanced way.

This is my point, of course other posters go on their usual rants as per some 800 pages of this topic.

The CMO is not an elected official. He has no need to be on a podium delivering gloom. Because he is not ever going to be answerable to the electorate like MON or AF he can basically say what he wants, how he wants. 

Saying that 70 or 80% needs to be vaccinated fuels the conspiracy nuts, which is what twitter when I clicked into it last night was full of unfortunately. Does that help the buy in ethos of the vaccine?
Conspiracy nuts need no fuelling whatsoever, they are attention seekers and will seek attention in any way they can

Saying that 70 or 80% need to be vaccinated is the truth, it may not even be enough, it's widely thought that at least 85% take up may be needed because more transmissible variants are now becoming dominant

Were we not all agreed at the start of this pandemic that truth was essential, given the lessons of the Spanish Flu pandemic or a century ago?

I would have hoped we were agreed on that

But it seems some now want to repeat the same mistakes and want sugar coating and lies - not truth

Yes, of course everyone wants the truth where a pandemic is concerned, as it affects us all. But you're never going to get that while politicians, corrupt governments, mainstream media and big pharmaceuticals are concerned. Politicians are only concerned about themselves and their positions/parties, mainstream peddle their bullshit and pharmaceuticals are only concerned with making money.
You peddle the cuckoo conspiracy theory that this is a plandemic so it's pretty obvious truth is the last thing you're interested in

What conspiracy theories?

Tell me this, do you really believe big pharma are an ethical industry?

Are you unaware of their culture of kickbacks, inducements, knowingly putting dodgy drugs on the market, price fixing on drugs?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 10, 2021, 10:26:40 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 10:16:49 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 10, 2021, 10:13:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 09:59:41 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 09:53:37 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 09, 2021, 07:35:28 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 05:34:02 PM
The North posts its best figures in some months today.

How does the CMO react?

Tells people that restrictions won't be fully lifted until 70-80% of population is vaccinated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56000840

There are some people very happy in the limelight during this pandemic. This gentleman is one.
Whilst I can see that the CMOs' roles both north and south is to keep a lid on things and be cautious they do need to bear people's mental health in mind when delivering their news. I do think they overcook the negativity and could present their opinions in a more balanced way.

This is my point, of course other posters go on their usual rants as per some 800 pages of this topic.

The CMO is not an elected official. He has no need to be on a podium delivering gloom. Because he is not ever going to be answerable to the electorate like MON or AF he can basically say what he wants, how he wants. 

Saying that 70 or 80% needs to be vaccinated fuels the conspiracy nuts, which is what twitter when I clicked into it last night was full of unfortunately. Does that help the buy in ethos of the vaccine?
Conspiracy nuts need no fuelling whatsoever, they are attention seekers and will seek attention in any way they can

Saying that 70 or 80% need to be vaccinated is the truth, it may not even be enough, it's widely thought that at least 85% take up may be needed because more transmissible variants are now becoming dominant

Were we not all agreed at the start of this pandemic that truth was essential, given the lessons of the Spanish Flu pandemic or a century ago?

I would have hoped we were agreed on that

But it seems some now want to repeat the same mistakes and want sugar coating and lies - not truth

Yes, of course everyone wants the truth where a pandemic is concerned, as it affects us all. But you're never going to get that while politicians, corrupt governments, mainstream media and big pharmaceuticals are concerned. Politicians are only concerned about themselves and their positions/parties, mainstream peddle their bullshit and pharmaceuticals are only concerned with making money.
You peddle the cuckoo conspiracy theory that this is a plandemic so it's pretty obvious truth is the last thing you're interested in

That's right, continue to fire names at me rather than comment on anything I say.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 10:28:03 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 09:53:37 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 09, 2021, 07:35:28 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 05:34:02 PM
The North posts its best figures in some months today.

How does the CMO react?

Tells people that restrictions won't be fully lifted until 70-80% of population is vaccinated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56000840

There are some people very happy in the limelight during this pandemic. This gentleman is one.
Whilst I can see that the CMOs' roles both north and south is to keep a lid on things and be cautious they do need to bear people's mental health in mind when delivering their news. I do think they overcook the negativity and could present their opinions in a more balanced way.

This is my point, of course other posters go on their usual rants as per some 800 pages of this topic.

The CMO is not an elected official. He has no need to be on a podium delivering gloom. Because he is not ever going to be answerable to the electorate like MON or AF he can basically say what he wants, how he wants. 

Saying that 70 or 80% needs to be vaccinated fuels the conspiracy nuts, which is what twitter when I clicked into it last night was full of unfortunately. Does that help the buy in ethos of the vaccine?

The CMO will always err on caution, he's looking at models, trends, cases, new variants and so on. the government are trying to decide safety and economy. That's what they will be judged on.

The lockdowns were half arsed and that's why we have the results we had.

Should things drop off like they seem to be doing,  the government will open up a bit more, I'd be hopeful we'll be having dinner out on the 5th of March, outside sports will open up and we'll have a GAA season to look forward too.

The vaccines will rapidly reduce admissions to hospitals and illness's will be treatable at home, allowing us to get back to normal
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 10, 2021, 10:28:57 AM
It's always been the way with this that once numbers drop, people get anxious for restrictions lifting and as soon as any restrictions are lifted, people let guard down and go further than what was anticipated. It's been hard on people, so hard to blame when this happens. But we've been there and it's not worked.

They have committed to the 22nd Feb as release of a roadmap, which I think will be lot more proudent than previously with tragets rather than dates for easing of restrictions. Nothing will change until 5th March even with this.

The point that people make of doom and gloom in the media or from the CMO or Government, is more than balanced than others who at first drop in numbers start shouting for lifting of restrictions. They equally drive the agenda of painting a different picture from the reality. There has to be balance somewhere in the middle but in today's world, that is hard to find.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on February 10, 2021, 10:29:34 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 10:20:06 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 10, 2021, 10:17:53 AM
Nobody wants lies. The nature of the delivery has to change. Like some on here the delivery of bad news seems to suit certain people.
This makes no sense whatsoever
I don't have the time or inclination to get into tit-for-tat posting that others do.  I think you know what I mean.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on February 10, 2021, 12:04:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 10:20:06 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 10, 2021, 10:17:53 AM
Nobody wants lies. The nature of the delivery has to change. Like some on here the delivery of bad news seems to suit certain people.
This makes no sense whatsoever

I thought it made perfect sense myself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 12:15:38 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 10, 2021, 12:04:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 10:20:06 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 10, 2021, 10:17:53 AM
Nobody wants lies. The nature of the delivery has to change. Like some on here the delivery of bad news seems to suit certain people.
This makes no sense whatsoever

I thought it made perfect sense myself.

Ditto, the zealots don't like people who challenge their views.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 12:21:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 10:28:03 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 09:53:37 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 09, 2021, 07:35:28 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 05:34:02 PM
The North posts its best figures in some months today.

How does the CMO react?

Tells people that restrictions won't be fully lifted until 70-80% of population is vaccinated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56000840

There are some people very happy in the limelight during this pandemic. This gentleman is one.
Whilst I can see that the CMOs' roles both north and south is to keep a lid on things and be cautious they do need to bear people's mental health in mind when delivering their news. I do think they overcook the negativity and could present their opinions in a more balanced way.

This is my point, of course other posters go on their usual rants as per some 800 pages of this topic.

The CMO is not an elected official. He has no need to be on a podium delivering gloom. Because he is not ever going to be answerable to the electorate like MON or AF he can basically say what he wants, how he wants. 

Saying that 70 or 80% needs to be vaccinated fuels the conspiracy nuts, which is what twitter when I clicked into it last night was full of unfortunately. Does that help the buy in ethos of the vaccine?

The CMO will always err on caution, he's looking at models, trends, cases, new variants and so on. the government are trying to decide safety and economy. That's what they will be judged on.

The lockdowns were half arsed and that's why we have the results we had.

Should things drop off like they seem to be doing,  the government will open up a bit more, I'd be hopeful we'll be having dinner out on the 5th of March, outside sports will open up and we'll have a GAA season to look forward too.

The vaccines will rapidly reduce admissions to hospitals and illness's will be treatable at home, allowing us to get back to normal

I've no problem with the CMO, with regards to his job, information or role. It's the fact he's in front of the TV cameras saying this all. He's got no place there because it shows in how he speaks, that he's the only one with 'nothing to lose' and it shows in his conferences. It rubs me up the wrong way.

I get that he's on the other side of caution, but posting the lowest numbers in months - you could think he would say something to effect that things are going well, we are getting closer - just some more weeks to go....give us a few figures to say that and portray a more positive message. Yesterday was a man not really in touch with the public feeling for me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 12:35:00 PM
The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 10, 2021, 12:57:28 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 12:21:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 10:28:03 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 10, 2021, 09:53:37 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 09, 2021, 07:35:28 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 09, 2021, 05:34:02 PM
The North posts its best figures in some months today.

How does the CMO react?

Tells people that restrictions won't be fully lifted until 70-80% of population is vaccinated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56000840

There are some people very happy in the limelight during this pandemic. This gentleman is one.
Whilst I can see that the CMOs' roles both north and south is to keep a lid on things and be cautious they do need to bear people's mental health in mind when delivering their news. I do think they overcook the negativity and could present their opinions in a more balanced way.

This is my point, of course other posters go on their usual rants as per some 800 pages of this topic.

The CMO is not an elected official. He has no need to be on a podium delivering gloom. Because he is not ever going to be answerable to the electorate like MON or AF he can basically say what he wants, how he wants. 

Saying that 70 or 80% needs to be vaccinated fuels the conspiracy nuts, which is what twitter when I clicked into it last night was full of unfortunately. Does that help the buy in ethos of the vaccine?

The CMO will always err on caution, he's looking at models, trends, cases, new variants and so on. the government are trying to decide safety and economy. That's what they will be judged on.

The lockdowns were half arsed and that's why we have the results we had.

Should things drop off like they seem to be doing,  the government will open up a bit more, I'd be hopeful we'll be having dinner out on the 5th of March, outside sports will open up and we'll have a GAA season to look forward too.

The vaccines will rapidly reduce admissions to hospitals and illness's will be treatable at home, allowing us to get back to normal

I've no problem with the CMO, with regards to his job, information or role. It's the fact he's in front of the TV cameras saying this all. He's got no place there because it shows in how he speaks, that he's the only one with 'nothing to lose' and it shows in his conferences. It rubs me up the wrong way.

I get that he's on the other side of caution, but posting the lowest numbers in months - you could think he would say something to effect that things are going well, we are getting closer - just some more weeks to go....give us a few figures to say that and portray a more positive message. Yesterday was a man not really in touch with the public feeling for me.

Change the channel FFS, it's not hard.

The CMO, north or south, is delivering news of people dying, daily. He's giving news of cases that he knows will lead to more death. How do you dress this up? He has to deal with realities and giving any kind of misleading news or hope will be jumped upon, high line news and then thrown back at him if/when it doesn't come to pass. Everything he says is micro analysed so he has to be cautious.

I've long since stopped watching the briefings or delving into what's been said. It's very easily done.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on February 10, 2021, 02:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 12:35:00 PM
The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

You are describing poor old Sid there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 02:10:17 PM
Quote from: Seamus on February 10, 2021, 02:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 12:35:00 PM
The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

You are describing poor old Sid there.
Mentally I have indeed found the last few weeks challenging given that my father was dying from hospital acquired Covid and then died from it

I think I'm doing alright considering, but still have a challenging period to navigate

You and Angelo obviously find that worthy of ridicule though - which fairly obliterates your fake "concern" for mental health, doesn't it



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 02:13:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 02:10:17 PM
Quote from: Seamus on February 10, 2021, 02:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 12:35:00 PM
The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

You are describing poor old Sid there.
Mentally I have indeed found the last few weeks challenging given that my father was dying from hospital acquired Covid and then died from it

I think I'm doing alright considering, but still have a challenging period to navigate

You and Angelo obviously find that worthy of ridicule though - which fairly obliterates your fake "concern" for mental health, doesn't it

Sorry for your loss Sid.

I have spoken at length that the hospital transmission rates are absolutely scandalous and it is scandalous that the govt and HSE have ignored the continued warnings about the spread of Covid in hospital settings. The fact that over 50% of Covid related deaths in the south occurred in nursing homes is also scandalous.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 02:33:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 02:10:17 PM
Quote from: Seamus on February 10, 2021, 02:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 12:35:00 PM
The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

You are describing poor old Sid there.
Mentally I have indeed found the last few weeks challenging given that my father was dying from hospital acquired Covid and then died from it

I think I'm doing alright considering, but still have a challenging period to navigate

You and Angelo obviously find that worthy of ridicule though - which fairly obliterates your fake "concern" for mental health, doesn't it

As much as Sid can go off on the ills of the world hitting him on mental health is below the belt
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 02:34:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 02:13:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 02:10:17 PM
Quote from: Seamus on February 10, 2021, 02:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 12:35:00 PM
The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

You are describing poor old Sid there.
Mentally I have indeed found the last few weeks challenging given that my father was dying from hospital acquired Covid and then died from it

I think I'm doing alright considering, but still have a challenging period to navigate

You and Angelo obviously find that worthy of ridicule though - which fairly obliterates your fake "concern" for mental health, doesn't it

Sorry for your loss Sid.

I have spoken at length that the hospital transmission rates are absolutely scandalous and it is scandalous that the govt and HSE have ignored the continued warnings about the spread of Covid in hospital settings. The fact that over 50% of Covid related deaths in the south occurred in nursing homes is also scandalous.
Hospital transmission rates are a direct function of rampant community spread - and nothing else

As is the case with spread in nursing homes

Why? Because the people who work in hospitals live in the community - across the road from me, four nurses live together in the same house

Once one of them gets it, they will inadvertantly bring it into the hospital, and Covid spreads both through close contact and through the air

Hospital and nursing home patients require close contact, and they also have to breath air

And good as the sort of masks used in hospitals are, the air that staff breath out still has to go somewhere

The actual scandal is the narrative we could open up without a plan without serious outbreaks in hospitals and nursing homes occurring

That narrative was allowed to spread like wildfire

Policy in Ireland has cowed far too much to vested interests like business, who demanded opening up without having a clue what they are talking about

Public health experts and actual epidemology experts have been marginalised since last summer, and instead the government took the Homer Simpson approach

Actual policy that was proven to work was dismissed - "if something is difficult, it's not worth doing"

This has been a general failure in Europe and the west - on this theme I again encourage people to read Naomi O'Leary's Irish Times article from October 31st - she has been one of the most cogent writers about this crisis throughout
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-west-has-failed-us-and-europe-have-made-a-mess-of-handling-the-crisis-1.4395473

And so we all end up in a much more a difficult position - and the people that are now crying about the effects of lockdowns refuse to have the decency to face up to the fact that the position we are currently in and have had to suffer since summer is the actual result of what they were screaming for

These were political decisions by politicians who only have the ability to think in the short term

In fact if we had listened to the anti-lockdown, anti-plan crackpots like you we would be in a much, much worse position than the already very bad position we are in



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 02:58:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 02:34:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 02:13:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 02:10:17 PM
Quote from: Seamus on February 10, 2021, 02:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 12:35:00 PM
The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

You are describing poor old Sid there.
Mentally I have indeed found the last few weeks challenging given that my father was dying from hospital acquired Covid and then died from it

I think I'm doing alright considering, but still have a challenging period to navigate

You and Angelo obviously find that worthy of ridicule though - which fairly obliterates your fake "concern" for mental health, doesn't it

Sorry for your loss Sid.

I have spoken at length that the hospital transmission rates are absolutely scandalous and it is scandalous that the govt and HSE have ignored the continued warnings about the spread of Covid in hospital settings. The fact that over 50% of Covid related deaths in the south occurred in nursing homes is also scandalous.
Hospital transmission rates are a direct function of rampant community spread - and nothing else

As is the case with spread in nursing homes

Why? Because the people who work in hospitals live in the community - across the road from me, four nurses live together in the same house

Once one of them gets it, they will inadvertantly bring it into the hospital, and Covid spreads both through close contact and through the air

Hospital and nursing home patients require close contact, and they also have to breath air

And good as the sort of masks used in hospitals are, the air that staff breath out still has to go somewhere

The actual scandal is the narrative we could open up without a plan without serious outbreaks in hospitals and nursing homes occurring

That narrative was allowed to spread like wildfire

Policy in Ireland has cowed far too much to vested interests like business, who demanded opening up without having a clue what they are talking about

Public health experts and actual epidemology experts have been marginalised since last summer, and instead the government took the Homer Simpson approach

Actual policy that was proven to work was dismissed - "if something is difficult, it's not worth doing"

This has been a general failure in Europe and the west - on this theme I again encourage people to read Naomi O'Leary's Irish Times article from October 31st - she has been one of the most cogent writers about this crisis throughout
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-west-has-failed-us-and-europe-have-made-a-mess-of-handling-the-crisis-1.4395473

And so we all end up in a much more a difficult position - and the people that are now crying about the effects of lockdowns refuse to have the decency to face up to the fact that the position we are currently in and have had to suffer since summer is the actual result of what they were screaming for

These were political decisions by politicians who only have the ability to think in the short term

In fact if we had listened to the anti-lockdown, anti-plan crackpots like you we would be in a much, much worse position than the already very bad position we are in

The INMO do not see it that way and laid the blame solely at the feet of the HSE and govt. They said their concerns were ignored for months and month regarding PPE and distancing between beds, use of private hospitals etc. The PPE problems were still an issue up until last month.

Rapid testing was only introduced to hospitals in the south last week and that is absolutely scandalous when you look at the levels of transmission in a hospital setting. The only person I know of personally that has died from Covid was an 83 year old man who picked it up in hospital while in for blood transfusions he has to get due to some underlying health issue he has.

If the proper PPE, proper additional resources to healthcare capacity and quicker introduction of rapid testing to hospitals and care home facilities were introduced the number of deaths would have been significantly lower, irrespective of the level of infection in the community.

Over 50% alone are from nursing homes, the vulnerable people have been failed by the state and the health executive and that is the big scandal.

The common man has to suffer the implications of lockdown on their employment, their finances and their mental and physical wellbeing because those in charge messed up the handling of this crisis and where is the accountability for that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 10, 2021, 03:26:32 PM
Angelo propaganda yet again.

All public health have signaled from day one that the massive risk to them is widespread community transmission. This was very clear on RTE last night. How they can make more space between beds when they've ambulances parked up with patients inside and doctors deciding who gets into a bed when one becomes available? How they try and make space for ICU beds in an operating theatre that they can no longer use as they need ICU beds and then double the capacity in this space by hanging a sheet to divide room in two.

Rapid testing hasn't been reliable enough. IMNO have said this. Staff can get tests daily and have been doing so for months.  PPE hasn't been in short supply since last April/May, they burning through the stuff at unprecedented levels but they have supply.

There is long standing issues in the health care system but none in the world that can stand up to a pandemic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 03:28:15 PM
@Angelo:

If you think it was a failure of not having enough PPE, why then were you calling for society to be opening up months ago? Because it should have been obvious that Covid would get into hospitals and nursing homes

As somebody who actually has personal experience both of being a full time carer and of being in a hospital including a Covid ward during this pandemic, I know the reality is that there are any number of ways Covid can get in and infect people and kill them, sure I could easily have brought it in had I had it without knowing

In a situation where Covid is rampant in the community, Covid WILL get in, no matter what you do, it's like water

And good as the staff are - and they are very good and I do not blame them one iota for my father catching Covid in hospital, they can't do anything about it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 03:31:47 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 10, 2021, 03:26:32 PM
Angelo propaganda yet again.

All public health have signaled from day one that the massive risk to them is widespread community transmission. This was very clear on RTE last night. How they can make more space between beds when they've ambulances parked up with patients inside and doctors deciding who gets into a bed when one becomes available? How they try and make space for ICU beds in an operating theatre that they can no longer use as they need ICU beds and then double the capacity in this space by hanging a sheet to divide room in two.

Rapid testing hasn't been reliable enough. IMNO have said this. Staff can get tests daily and have been doing so for months.  PPE hasn't been in short supply since last April/May, they burning through the stuff at unprecedented levels but they have supply.

There is long standing issues in the health care system but none in the world that can stand up to a pandemic.

You accuse me of propaganda when you put up a post laden with it.

If rapid testing hasn't been reliable enough then why are we now introducing it now? That's a self-defeating argument there. It's a bit like when they told us for months not to wear masks and then they told us we should be wearing masks then we they made masks mandatory and cases shot up across the board.

The problem is that 50% of those who died picked it up in nursing homes, that is a scandal.

The problem is that 1/3 of hospital patients with Covid picked it up in hospital, that is a scandal.

And you can keep trotting out every little excuse you want for the government and health departments, these are there failings and that blood is on their hands.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 03:32:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 03:28:15 PM
@Angelo:

If you think it was a failure of not having enough PPE, why then were you calling for society to be opening up months ago? Because it should have been obvious that Covid would get into hospitals and nursing homes

As somebody who actually has personal experience both of being a full time carer and of being in a hospital including a Covid ward during this pandemic, I know the reality is that there are any number of ways Covid can get in and infect people and kill them, sure I could easily have brought it in had I had it without knowing

In a situation where Covid is rampant in the community, Covid WILL get in, no matter what you do, it's like water

And good as the staff are - and they are very good and I do not blame them one iota for my father catching Covid in hospital, they can't do anything about it

Why do the INMO dispute what you say so? Do they not have experience? The INMO lay the blame firmly at the hands of the HSE and govt, that is where they differ wildly with you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 03:34:57 PM
https://www.thejournal.ie/nurses-covid-5324012-Jan2021/

THE IRISH NURSES and Midwives Organisation (INMO) has said the healthcare system is overloaded and is calling for "urgent governemnt intervention".

The union's executive council met today to discuss the "unprecedented" pressure on frontline members due to the rapid growth in Covid-19 cases.

They are calling for the level of PPE in healthcare settings to be upgraded to FFP2 masks and an end to the policy allowing asymptomatic close contacts to return to work.

This morning HSE Chief Operations Officer Dr Anne O'Connor said requesting close contacts to return to work was a "last resort", but the healthcare service is now under significant pressure and needs the staff.

"The reality is that the demand now is so high, and the numbers are becoming so high that we need staff at work and given the level of absenteeism that is becoming very difficult across the board," she said.

The INMO is also calling for private hospital capacity to be fully nationalised into the public system to provide additional beds and staffing to the service in the coming weeks. Current government plans are to use a third of this capacity.

The union said the government needs to intervene to ensure there is childminding provision to allow parents of schoolchildren to attend work while schools are closed. It said this could take the form of a partial school reopening for families of healthcare staff or an expansion of after-school care.

Other measures highlighted by the INMO include a continuation of vaccination priority for healthcare workers and protections and pay for nursing the midwifery students and interns who it said are facing high Covid-19 risks.

RELATED READ

13.01.21
HSE calls close contacts back into work with more than 7,000 health staff absent
INMO president and emergency department nurse, Karen McGowan today said the system "is overloaded and they cannot cope".

"Decisions at every level are happening too late to prevent infection and overburden. The consequences are increasingly clear – our frontline members are paying the price," she said.

INMO general secretary, Phil Ní Sheaghdha, said this situation should be treated as a national emergency.

"The public health service was not fit for purpose before the pandemic – it is now under a level of pressure not seen before. We are at the point where staff are not able to cope. There are huge numbers of very sick patients, with 7,000 HSE staff now out for Covid reasons. Over 2,500 healthcare workers a week are getting the virus," she said.

"Our executive council has set out five practical measures the government should intervene with. We need all hands on deck in the health service and frontline staff must be protected.

"Safety standards need an urgent upgrade. Last year, the INMO had to campaign to get facemasks in healthcare settings. We were told it was not possible or necessary, but eventually they listened. We now know that all staff need to be issued with high-standard FFP2 masks, as has been done in Cork University Hospital.

"It is beyond time to nationalise all private hospital capacity and to provide childminding for healthcare workers with children. Similarly, we cannot ask students to take on more work at the expense of learning, for no or low pay."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 03:50:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 02:58:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 02:34:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 02:13:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 02:10:17 PM
Quote from: Seamus on February 10, 2021, 02:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 12:35:00 PM
The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

You are describing poor old Sid there.
Mentally I have indeed found the last few weeks challenging given that my father was dying from hospital acquired Covid and then died from it

I think I'm doing alright considering, but still have a challenging period to navigate

You and Angelo obviously find that worthy of ridicule though - which fairly obliterates your fake "concern" for mental health, doesn't it

Sorry for your loss Sid.

I have spoken at length that the hospital transmission rates are absolutely scandalous and it is scandalous that the govt and HSE have ignored the continued warnings about the spread of Covid in hospital settings. The fact that over 50% of Covid related deaths in the south occurred in nursing homes is also scandalous.
Hospital transmission rates are a direct function of rampant community spread - and nothing else

As is the case with spread in nursing homes

Why? Because the people who work in hospitals live in the community - across the road from me, four nurses live together in the same house

Once one of them gets it, they will inadvertantly bring it into the hospital, and Covid spreads both through close contact and through the air

Hospital and nursing home patients require close contact, and they also have to breath air

And good as the sort of masks used in hospitals are, the air that staff breath out still has to go somewhere

The actual scandal is the narrative we could open up without a plan without serious outbreaks in hospitals and nursing homes occurring

That narrative was allowed to spread like wildfire

Policy in Ireland has cowed far too much to vested interests like business, who demanded opening up without having a clue what they are talking about

Public health experts and actual epidemology experts have been marginalised since last summer, and instead the government took the Homer Simpson approach

Actual policy that was proven to work was dismissed - "if something is difficult, it's not worth doing"

This has been a general failure in Europe and the west - on this theme I again encourage people to read Naomi O'Leary's Irish Times article from October 31st - she has been one of the most cogent writers about this crisis throughout
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-west-has-failed-us-and-europe-have-made-a-mess-of-handling-the-crisis-1.4395473

And so we all end up in a much more a difficult position - and the people that are now crying about the effects of lockdowns refuse to have the decency to face up to the fact that the position we are currently in and have had to suffer since summer is the actual result of what they were screaming for

These were political decisions by politicians who only have the ability to think in the short term

In fact if we had listened to the anti-lockdown, anti-plan crackpots like you we would be in a much, much worse position than the already very bad position we are in

The INMO do not see it that way and laid the blame solely at the feet of the HSE and govt. They said their concerns were ignored for months and month regarding PPE and distancing between beds, use of private hospitals etc. The PPE problems were still an issue up until last month.

Rapid testing was only introduced to hospitals in the south last week and that is absolutely scandalous when you look at the levels of transmission in a hospital setting. The only person I know of personally that has died from Covid was an 83 year old man who picked it up in hospital while in for blood transfusions he has to get due to some underlying health issue he has.

If the proper PPE, proper additional resources to healthcare capacity and quicker introduction of rapid testing to hospitals and care home facilities were introduced the number of deaths would have been significantly lower, irrespective of the level of infection in the community.

Over 50% alone are from nursing homes, the vulnerable people have been failed by the state and the health executive and that is the big scandal.

The common man has to suffer the implications of lockdown on their employment, their finances and their mental and physical wellbeing because those in charge messed up the handling of this crisis and where is the accountability for that?

There are a lot of If's

King of hindsight, everyone knows that the government fucked it up, everyone knows the nursing homes were under prepared and sending sick infected patients back into the nursing homes caused (still in cases) untold deaths, not that you are concerned with that, as according to your mindset, they are, on average, only going to be there for a year..

Had we had you, king of the keyboards on the job or you had the ear of anyone outside of your single bed bedroom to help in these matters we'd be in a lot better shape.

Rapid testing wasn't always available, brilliant that it is used now. PPE wasn't available as the world was looking for it, getting your hands on it at the start was difficult, by then the horse had bolted.

The borders should have been closed along with the airports at the start, I was wary of that at the time as I didn't in fairness have the hindsight of how this was going to turn out.

I reckon you smell your own shit and think it smells great
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 04:35:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 03:50:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 02:58:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 02:34:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 02:13:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 02:10:17 PM
Quote from: Seamus on February 10, 2021, 02:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 12:35:00 PM
The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

You are describing poor old Sid there.
Mentally I have indeed found the last few weeks challenging given that my father was dying from hospital acquired Covid and then died from it

I think I'm doing alright considering, but still have a challenging period to navigate

You and Angelo obviously find that worthy of ridicule though - which fairly obliterates your fake "concern" for mental health, doesn't it

Sorry for your loss Sid.

I have spoken at length that the hospital transmission rates are absolutely scandalous and it is scandalous that the govt and HSE have ignored the continued warnings about the spread of Covid in hospital settings. The fact that over 50% of Covid related deaths in the south occurred in nursing homes is also scandalous.
Hospital transmission rates are a direct function of rampant community spread - and nothing else

As is the case with spread in nursing homes

Why? Because the people who work in hospitals live in the community - across the road from me, four nurses live together in the same house

Once one of them gets it, they will inadvertantly bring it into the hospital, and Covid spreads both through close contact and through the air

Hospital and nursing home patients require close contact, and they also have to breath air

And good as the sort of masks used in hospitals are, the air that staff breath out still has to go somewhere

The actual scandal is the narrative we could open up without a plan without serious outbreaks in hospitals and nursing homes occurring

That narrative was allowed to spread like wildfire

Policy in Ireland has cowed far too much to vested interests like business, who demanded opening up without having a clue what they are talking about

Public health experts and actual epidemology experts have been marginalised since last summer, and instead the government took the Homer Simpson approach

Actual policy that was proven to work was dismissed - "if something is difficult, it's not worth doing"

This has been a general failure in Europe and the west - on this theme I again encourage people to read Naomi O'Leary's Irish Times article from October 31st - she has been one of the most cogent writers about this crisis throughout
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-west-has-failed-us-and-europe-have-made-a-mess-of-handling-the-crisis-1.4395473

And so we all end up in a much more a difficult position - and the people that are now crying about the effects of lockdowns refuse to have the decency to face up to the fact that the position we are currently in and have had to suffer since summer is the actual result of what they were screaming for

These were political decisions by politicians who only have the ability to think in the short term

In fact if we had listened to the anti-lockdown, anti-plan crackpots like you we would be in a much, much worse position than the already very bad position we are in

The INMO do not see it that way and laid the blame solely at the feet of the HSE and govt. They said their concerns were ignored for months and month regarding PPE and distancing between beds, use of private hospitals etc. The PPE problems were still an issue up until last month.

Rapid testing was only introduced to hospitals in the south last week and that is absolutely scandalous when you look at the levels of transmission in a hospital setting. The only person I know of personally that has died from Covid was an 83 year old man who picked it up in hospital while in for blood transfusions he has to get due to some underlying health issue he has.

If the proper PPE, proper additional resources to healthcare capacity and quicker introduction of rapid testing to hospitals and care home facilities were introduced the number of deaths would have been significantly lower, irrespective of the level of infection in the community.

Over 50% alone are from nursing homes, the vulnerable people have been failed by the state and the health executive and that is the big scandal.

The common man has to suffer the implications of lockdown on their employment, their finances and their mental and physical wellbeing because those in charge messed up the handling of this crisis and where is the accountability for that?

There are a lot of If's

King of hindsight, everyone knows that the government fucked it up, everyone knows the nursing homes were under prepared and sending sick infected patients back into the nursing homes caused (still in cases) untold deaths, not that you are concerned with that, as according to your mindset, they are, on average, only going to be there for a year..

Had we had you, king of the keyboards on the job or you had the ear of anyone outside of your single bed bedroom to help in these matters we'd be in a lot better shape.

Rapid testing wasn't always available, brilliant that it is used now. PPE wasn't available as the world was looking for it, getting your hands on it at the start was difficult, by then the horse had bolted.

The borders should have been closed along with the airports at the start, I was wary of that at the time as I didn't in fairness have the hindsight of how this was going to turn out.

I reckon you smell your own shit and think it smells great

Surely rapid testing, irrespective of its reliability should have been introduced at the first stage of availability in order to minimise the risk of covid transmissions in hospital. Surely no money should have been spared to make sure all frontline staff were adequately protected with PPE, to stop infection and staff shortages. There were failings on a catastrophic levels.

Nice snide dig about people with keyboards. High ranking elected officials and high rank civil servants are paid the big money to get these decisions right, not only did they get it wrong, they got it wrong to catastrophic levels and should be held to account.

The narrative seems to be that the CMOs, health service and govt officials are above questioning on the things they have got badly wrong. They have no problem enforcing lockdowns, laying people off, shutting down business and services, restricting us from seeing our friends and loved ones but they cannot introduce regulations and provisions that would give frontline workers the adequate supports to carry out their job.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 10, 2021, 04:39:26 PM
Angelo, just keep ignoring that the reasoning HSE and IMNO are under such pressure is cause of increased community conditions that come from reduce conditions.

By your logic, we should lock everyone away over the age of 60 and those under 60 with vulnerable conditions including asthma, diabetes, high blood pressure etc ( common much? ) - let these people stay out of the way and let the rest of us get on with it. Sure we may get covid and be ok, sure we may get sick and require hospitalisation but we can just move those out without covid and let us been seen first.

Anyone over 60 can watch the world through their windows and we'll throw them the odd bone. To hell with anyone's mental health in that situation. Survival of the fitness lads, you'll all die anyway.

I'm having a good time and that's all that matters.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 04:42:35 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 10, 2021, 04:39:26 PM
Angelo, just keep ignoring that the reasoning HSE and IMNO are under such pressure is cause of increased community conditions that come from reduce conditions.

By your logic, we should lock everyone away over the age of 60 and those under 60 with vulnerable conditions including asthma, diabetes, high blood pressure etc ( common much? ) - let these people stay out of the way and let the rest of us get on with it. Sure we may get covid and be ok, sure we may get sick and require hospitalisation but we can just move those out without covid and let us been seen first.

Anyone over 60 can watch the world through their windows and we'll throw them the odd bone. To hell with anyone's mental health in that situation. Survival of the fitness lads, you'll all die anyway.

I'm having a good time and that's all that matters.

You keep ignoring what the INMO have said.

They have directly pointed the finger of blame at the govt and HSE for the spread of Covid in hospitals.

Why don't you have the same vigour for the 1.3m road deaths every year. Why is it acceptable they die but people have to forego their liveilhoods jobs, financial security, frienships, support services etc for one virus.

Go out and kill someone on the road, we don't care but don't you dare pass on Covid to someone.

Such an utter hypocrite.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 10, 2021, 04:44:49 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 10, 2021, 04:39:26 PM
Angelo, just keep ignoring that the reasoning HSE and IMNO are under such pressure is cause of increased community conditions that come from reduce conditions.

By your logic, we should lock everyone away over the age of 60 and those under 60 with vulnerable conditions including asthma, diabetes, high blood pressure etc ( common much? ) - let these people stay out of the way and let the rest of us get on with it. Sure we may get covid and be ok, sure we may get sick and require hospitalisation but we can just move those out without covid and let us been seen first.

Anyone over 60 can watch the world through their windows and we'll throw them the odd bone. To hell with anyone's mental health in that situation. Survival of the fitness lads, you'll all die anyway.

I'm having a good time and that's all that matters.

When we become 60 and have high blood pressure, which won't be long for some of us, will we still be allowed post on Gaaboard?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 04:47:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 04:35:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 03:50:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 02:58:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 02:34:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 02:13:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 02:10:17 PM
Quote from: Seamus on February 10, 2021, 02:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 12:35:00 PM
The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

You are describing poor old Sid there.
Mentally I have indeed found the last few weeks challenging given that my father was dying from hospital acquired Covid and then died from it

I think I'm doing alright considering, but still have a challenging period to navigate

You and Angelo obviously find that worthy of ridicule though - which fairly obliterates your fake "concern" for mental health, doesn't it

Sorry for your loss Sid.

I have spoken at length that the hospital transmission rates are absolutely scandalous and it is scandalous that the govt and HSE have ignored the continued warnings about the spread of Covid in hospital settings. The fact that over 50% of Covid related deaths in the south occurred in nursing homes is also scandalous.
Hospital transmission rates are a direct function of rampant community spread - and nothing else

As is the case with spread in nursing homes

Why? Because the people who work in hospitals live in the community - across the road from me, four nurses live together in the same house

Once one of them gets it, they will inadvertantly bring it into the hospital, and Covid spreads both through close contact and through the air

Hospital and nursing home patients require close contact, and they also have to breath air

And good as the sort of masks used in hospitals are, the air that staff breath out still has to go somewhere

The actual scandal is the narrative we could open up without a plan without serious outbreaks in hospitals and nursing homes occurring

That narrative was allowed to spread like wildfire

Policy in Ireland has cowed far too much to vested interests like business, who demanded opening up without having a clue what they are talking about

Public health experts and actual epidemology experts have been marginalised since last summer, and instead the government took the Homer Simpson approach

Actual policy that was proven to work was dismissed - "if something is difficult, it's not worth doing"

This has been a general failure in Europe and the west - on this theme I again encourage people to read Naomi O'Leary's Irish Times article from October 31st - she has been one of the most cogent writers about this crisis throughout
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-west-has-failed-us-and-europe-have-made-a-mess-of-handling-the-crisis-1.4395473

And so we all end up in a much more a difficult position - and the people that are now crying about the effects of lockdowns refuse to have the decency to face up to the fact that the position we are currently in and have had to suffer since summer is the actual result of what they were screaming for

These were political decisions by politicians who only have the ability to think in the short term

In fact if we had listened to the anti-lockdown, anti-plan crackpots like you we would be in a much, much worse position than the already very bad position we are in

The INMO do not see it that way and laid the blame solely at the feet of the HSE and govt. They said their concerns were ignored for months and month regarding PPE and distancing between beds, use of private hospitals etc. The PPE problems were still an issue up until last month.

Rapid testing was only introduced to hospitals in the south last week and that is absolutely scandalous when you look at the levels of transmission in a hospital setting. The only person I know of personally that has died from Covid was an 83 year old man who picked it up in hospital while in for blood transfusions he has to get due to some underlying health issue he has.

If the proper PPE, proper additional resources to healthcare capacity and quicker introduction of rapid testing to hospitals and care home facilities were introduced the number of deaths would have been significantly lower, irrespective of the level of infection in the community.

Over 50% alone are from nursing homes, the vulnerable people have been failed by the state and the health executive and that is the big scandal.

The common man has to suffer the implications of lockdown on their employment, their finances and their mental and physical wellbeing because those in charge messed up the handling of this crisis and where is the accountability for that?

There are a lot of If's

King of hindsight, everyone knows that the government fucked it up, everyone knows the nursing homes were under prepared and sending sick infected patients back into the nursing homes caused (still in cases) untold deaths, not that you are concerned with that, as according to your mindset, they are, on average, only going to be there for a year..

Had we had you, king of the keyboards on the job or you had the ear of anyone outside of your single bed bedroom to help in these matters we'd be in a lot better shape.

Rapid testing wasn't always available, brilliant that it is used now. PPE wasn't available as the world was looking for it, getting your hands on it at the start was difficult, by then the horse had bolted.

The borders should have been closed along with the airports at the start, I was wary of that at the time as I didn't in fairness have the hindsight of how this was going to turn out.

I reckon you smell your own shit and think it smells great

Surely rapid testing, irrespective of its reliability should have been introduced at the first stage of availability in order to minimise the risk of covid transmissions in hospital. Surely no money should have been spared to make sure all frontline staff were adequately protected with PPE, to stop infection and staff shortages. There were failings on a catastrophic levels.

Nice snide dig about people with keyboards. High ranking elected officials and high rank civil servants are paid the big money to get these decisions right, not only did they get it wrong, they got it wrong to catastrophic levels and should be held to account.

The narrative seems to be that the CMOs, health service and govt officials are above questioning on the things they have got badly wrong. They have no problem enforcing lockdowns, laying people off, shutting down business and services, restricting us from seeing our friends and loved ones but they cannot introduce regulations and provisions that would give frontline workers the adequate supports to carry out their job.

They should and hopefully will be held accountable, that's not going to solve the problems we have now!

You're talking about stuff that they were ill prepared for even though they had a plan in place to deal with it, they neither acted on the plan nor had the PPE, staff, bravery or balls to actually close the place down and kill the transmissions at the start!

No lets have Cheltenham and football and CL games going on, opened up air avenues for everyone to bring it in. How they have the cheek now to enforce the travel bans and force people into 'covid hotels' is beyond me.

Nothing you have said on this anyone will disagree with (for a change) but the horse bolted the gates stayed open and they were not prepared
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 04:52:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 04:47:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 04:35:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 03:50:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 02:58:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 02:34:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 02:13:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 02:10:17 PM
Quote from: Seamus on February 10, 2021, 02:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 12:35:00 PM
The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

You are describing poor old Sid there.
Mentally I have indeed found the last few weeks challenging given that my father was dying from hospital acquired Covid and then died from it

I think I'm doing alright considering, but still have a challenging period to navigate

You and Angelo obviously find that worthy of ridicule though - which fairly obliterates your fake "concern" for mental health, doesn't it

Sorry for your loss Sid.

I have spoken at length that the hospital transmission rates are absolutely scandalous and it is scandalous that the govt and HSE have ignored the continued warnings about the spread of Covid in hospital settings. The fact that over 50% of Covid related deaths in the south occurred in nursing homes is also scandalous.
Hospital transmission rates are a direct function of rampant community spread - and nothing else

As is the case with spread in nursing homes

Why? Because the people who work in hospitals live in the community - across the road from me, four nurses live together in the same house

Once one of them gets it, they will inadvertantly bring it into the hospital, and Covid spreads both through close contact and through the air

Hospital and nursing home patients require close contact, and they also have to breath air

And good as the sort of masks used in hospitals are, the air that staff breath out still has to go somewhere

The actual scandal is the narrative we could open up without a plan without serious outbreaks in hospitals and nursing homes occurring

That narrative was allowed to spread like wildfire

Policy in Ireland has cowed far too much to vested interests like business, who demanded opening up without having a clue what they are talking about

Public health experts and actual epidemology experts have been marginalised since last summer, and instead the government took the Homer Simpson approach

Actual policy that was proven to work was dismissed - "if something is difficult, it's not worth doing"

This has been a general failure in Europe and the west - on this theme I again encourage people to read Naomi O'Leary's Irish Times article from October 31st - she has been one of the most cogent writers about this crisis throughout
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-west-has-failed-us-and-europe-have-made-a-mess-of-handling-the-crisis-1.4395473

And so we all end up in a much more a difficult position - and the people that are now crying about the effects of lockdowns refuse to have the decency to face up to the fact that the position we are currently in and have had to suffer since summer is the actual result of what they were screaming for

These were political decisions by politicians who only have the ability to think in the short term

In fact if we had listened to the anti-lockdown, anti-plan crackpots like you we would be in a much, much worse position than the already very bad position we are in

The INMO do not see it that way and laid the blame solely at the feet of the HSE and govt. They said their concerns were ignored for months and month regarding PPE and distancing between beds, use of private hospitals etc. The PPE problems were still an issue up until last month.

Rapid testing was only introduced to hospitals in the south last week and that is absolutely scandalous when you look at the levels of transmission in a hospital setting. The only person I know of personally that has died from Covid was an 83 year old man who picked it up in hospital while in for blood transfusions he has to get due to some underlying health issue he has.

If the proper PPE, proper additional resources to healthcare capacity and quicker introduction of rapid testing to hospitals and care home facilities were introduced the number of deaths would have been significantly lower, irrespective of the level of infection in the community.

Over 50% alone are from nursing homes, the vulnerable people have been failed by the state and the health executive and that is the big scandal.

The common man has to suffer the implications of lockdown on their employment, their finances and their mental and physical wellbeing because those in charge messed up the handling of this crisis and where is the accountability for that?

There are a lot of If's

King of hindsight, everyone knows that the government fucked it up, everyone knows the nursing homes were under prepared and sending sick infected patients back into the nursing homes caused (still in cases) untold deaths, not that you are concerned with that, as according to your mindset, they are, on average, only going to be there for a year..

Had we had you, king of the keyboards on the job or you had the ear of anyone outside of your single bed bedroom to help in these matters we'd be in a lot better shape.

Rapid testing wasn't always available, brilliant that it is used now. PPE wasn't available as the world was looking for it, getting your hands on it at the start was difficult, by then the horse had bolted.

The borders should have been closed along with the airports at the start, I was wary of that at the time as I didn't in fairness have the hindsight of how this was going to turn out.

I reckon you smell your own shit and think it smells great

Surely rapid testing, irrespective of its reliability should have been introduced at the first stage of availability in order to minimise the risk of covid transmissions in hospital. Surely no money should have been spared to make sure all frontline staff were adequately protected with PPE, to stop infection and staff shortages. There were failings on a catastrophic levels.

Nice snide dig about people with keyboards. High ranking elected officials and high rank civil servants are paid the big money to get these decisions right, not only did they get it wrong, they got it wrong to catastrophic levels and should be held to account.

The narrative seems to be that the CMOs, health service and govt officials are above questioning on the things they have got badly wrong. They have no problem enforcing lockdowns, laying people off, shutting down business and services, restricting us from seeing our friends and loved ones but they cannot introduce regulations and provisions that would give frontline workers the adequate supports to carry out their job.

They should and hopefully will be held accountable, that's not going to solve the problems we have now!

You're talking about stuff that they were ill prepared for even though they had a plan in place to deal with it, they neither acted on the plan nor had the PPE, staff, bravery or balls to actually close the place down and kill the transmissions at the start!

No lets have Cheltenham and football and CL games going on, opened up air avenues for everyone to bring it in. How they have the cheek now to enforce the travel bans and force people into 'covid hotels' is beyond me.

Nothing you have said on this anyone will disagree with (for a change) but the horse bolted the gates stayed open and they were not prepared

It could have solved a lot of problems back then. Minimal coverage has been given to these failings, so we now have a culture where it's ok for those tasked with managing this crisis with free reign to make mistakes and not act in the public interest.

Would providing proper PPE and introducing rapid testing to hospitals a lot earlier not have served a far greater benefit to society as a whole than laying people off, shutting schools down, closing business and supports services for people with mental and physical disabilities?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 10, 2021, 04:53:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2021, 04:44:49 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 10, 2021, 04:39:26 PM
Angelo, just keep ignoring that the reasoning HSE and IMNO are under such pressure is cause of increased community conditions that come from reduce conditions.

By your logic, we should lock everyone away over the age of 60 and those under 60 with vulnerable conditions including asthma, diabetes, high blood pressure etc ( common much? ) - let these people stay out of the way and let the rest of us get on with it. Sure we may get covid and be ok, sure we may get sick and require hospitalisation but we can just move those out without covid and let us been seen first.

Anyone over 60 can watch the world through their windows and we'll throw them the odd bone. To hell with anyone's mental health in that situation. Survival of the fitness lads, you'll all die anyway.

I'm having a good time and that's all that matters.

When we become 60 and have high blood pressure, which won't be long for some of us, will we still be allowed post on Gaaboard?

As a birthday present and by way of compensation for been locked away from that day, you get VIP access to Gaaboard - it's a secret chat room where you get to talk to yourself. Few posters already banned from it after reporting themselves.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 10, 2021, 04:57:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 04:42:35 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 10, 2021, 04:39:26 PM
Angelo, just keep ignoring that the reasoning HSE and IMNO are under such pressure is cause of increased community conditions that come from reduce conditions.

By your logic, we should lock everyone away over the age of 60 and those under 60 with vulnerable conditions including asthma, diabetes, high blood pressure etc ( common much? ) - let these people stay out of the way and let the rest of us get on with it. Sure we may get covid and be ok, sure we may get sick and require hospitalisation but we can just move those out without covid and let us been seen first.

Anyone over 60 can watch the world through their windows and we'll throw them the odd bone. To hell with anyone's mental health in that situation. Survival of the fitness lads, you'll all die anyway.

I'm having a good time and that's all that matters.

You keep ignoring what the INMO have said.

They have directly pointed the finger of blame at the govt and HSE for the spread of Covid in hospitals.

Why don't you have the same vigour for the 1.3m road deaths every year. Why is it acceptable they die but people have to forego their liveilhoods jobs, financial security, frienships, support services etc for one virus.

Go out and kill someone on the road, we don't care but don't you dare pass on Covid to someone.

Such an utter hypocrite.

Flu 2017/18 is so last year. It's road deaths now, I see another .3m have died since your last post on road deaths some 20 mins ago.

You've no shame trying to make yourself sound right by throwing round death figures as a way of justifying your own self entitlement to do what you want and to hell with the rest.

And for your record there was 141 road deaths in ROI in 2020, each equally tragic. Was above that in a few days with Covid in January. Fair play a very valid comparison.  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 05:00:13 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 10, 2021, 04:57:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 04:42:35 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 10, 2021, 04:39:26 PM
Angelo, just keep ignoring that the reasoning HSE and IMNO are under such pressure is cause of increased community conditions that come from reduce conditions.

By your logic, we should lock everyone away over the age of 60 and those under 60 with vulnerable conditions including asthma, diabetes, high blood pressure etc ( common much? ) - let these people stay out of the way and let the rest of us get on with it. Sure we may get covid and be ok, sure we may get sick and require hospitalisation but we can just move those out without covid and let us been seen first.

Anyone over 60 can watch the world through their windows and we'll throw them the odd bone. To hell with anyone's mental health in that situation. Survival of the fitness lads, you'll all die anyway.

I'm having a good time and that's all that matters.

You keep ignoring what the INMO have said.

They have directly pointed the finger of blame at the govt and HSE for the spread of Covid in hospitals.

Why don't you have the same vigour for the 1.3m road deaths every year. Why is it acceptable they die but people have to forego their liveilhoods jobs, financial security, frienships, support services etc for one virus.

Go out and kill someone on the road, we don't care but don't you dare pass on Covid to someone.

Such an utter hypocrite.

Flu 2017/18 is so last year. It's road deaths now, I see another .3m have died since your last post on road deaths some 20 mins ago.

You've no shame trying to make yourself sound right by throwing round death figures as a way of justifying your own self entitlement to do what you want and to hell with the rest.

And for your record there was 141 road deaths in ROI in 2020, each equally tragic. Was above that in a few days with Covid in January. Fair play a very valid comparison.  ::)

Don't be getting bitchy with me because you have a massive problem with your hypocrisy and double standards being exposed.

More people under the age of 40 die in road traffic accidents than Covid. Why do you justify every other sort of death as acceptable but continue to demand people give up their lives to fight one disease. Your dogmatic contradictions will continue to be exposed here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 10, 2021, 05:01:11 PM
Our CMO keeps moving the goalposts

Only 5 weeks ago the vaccines were our way out of this. Only today he said the vaccines are not the way out of this.
Why is he giving radio interviews is beyond me. Advise the government and give a briefing every week. But when he is on every airwave most days is annoying

3 cases in Omagh Fermanagh

Milltown have you got the slippers on. I'd say you haven't done much in a year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 10, 2021, 05:02:30 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 10, 2021, 04:53:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2021, 04:44:49 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 10, 2021, 04:39:26 PM
Angelo, just keep ignoring that the reasoning HSE and IMNO are under such pressure is cause of increased community conditions that come from reduce conditions.

By your logic, we should lock everyone away over the age of 60 and those under 60 with vulnerable conditions including asthma, diabetes, high blood pressure etc ( common much? ) - let these people stay out of the way and let the rest of us get on with it. Sure we may get covid and be ok, sure we may get sick and require hospitalisation but we can just move those out without covid and let us been seen first.

Anyone over 60 can watch the world through their windows and we'll throw them the odd bone. To hell with anyone's mental health in that situation. Survival of the fitness lads, you'll all die anyway.

I'm having a good time and that's all that matters.

When we become 60 and have high blood pressure, which won't be long for some of us, will we still be allowed post on Gaaboard?

As a birthday present and by way of compensation for been locked away from that day, you get VIP access to Gaaboard - it's a secret chat room where you get to talk to yourself. Few posters already banned from it after reporting themselves.

Myself and Orior can chat away there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 10, 2021, 05:06:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 05:00:13 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 10, 2021, 04:57:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 04:42:35 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 10, 2021, 04:39:26 PM
Angelo, just keep ignoring that the reasoning HSE and IMNO are under such pressure is cause of increased community conditions that come from reduce conditions.

By your logic, we should lock everyone away over the age of 60 and those under 60 with vulnerable conditions including asthma, diabetes, high blood pressure etc ( common much? ) - let these people stay out of the way and let the rest of us get on with it. Sure we may get covid and be ok, sure we may get sick and require hospitalisation but we can just move those out without covid and let us been seen first.

Anyone over 60 can watch the world through their windows and we'll throw them the odd bone. To hell with anyone's mental health in that situation. Survival of the fitness lads, you'll all die anyway.

I'm having a good time and that's all that matters.

You keep ignoring what the INMO have said.

They have directly pointed the finger of blame at the govt and HSE for the spread of Covid in hospitals.

Why don't you have the same vigour for the 1.3m road deaths every year. Why is it acceptable they die but people have to forego their liveilhoods jobs, financial security, frienships, support services etc for one virus.

Go out and kill someone on the road, we don't care but don't you dare pass on Covid to someone.

Such an utter hypocrite.

Flu 2017/18 is so last year. It's road deaths now, I see another .3m have died since your last post on road deaths some 20 mins ago.

You've no shame trying to make yourself sound right by throwing round death figures as a way of justifying your own self entitlement to do what you want and to hell with the rest.

And for your record there was 141 road deaths in ROI in 2020, each equally tragic. Was above that in a few days with Covid in January. Fair play a very valid comparison.  ::)

Don't be getting bitchy with me because you have a massive problem with your hypocrisy and double standards being exposed.

More people under the age of 40 die in road traffic accidents than Covid. Why do you justify every other sort of death as acceptable but continue to demand people give up their lives to fight one disease. Your dogmatic contradictions will continue to be exposed here.

Changing your approach again.

I don't accept any justification for any death at all and that's why my I can see the reasoning for the restrictions and lockdown and why everyone has a responsibility in this, not just those you want to lock away on their 60th birthdays.

Why do you feel that those vulnerable and over 60 should be removed from society and locked away so you can do what you want? Is that justified? You seem more than willing to let society function as normal but those at risk can bugger off behind closed doors.

Did you learn the meaning of dogmatic last night reading the dictionary when taking a shite? As you've been throwing into as many posts as possible today.

What's tomorrow's word going to be?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 10, 2021, 05:07:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2021, 05:02:30 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 10, 2021, 04:53:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2021, 04:44:49 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 10, 2021, 04:39:26 PM
Angelo, just keep ignoring that the reasoning HSE and IMNO are under such pressure is cause of increased community conditions that come from reduce conditions.

By your logic, we should lock everyone away over the age of 60 and those under 60 with vulnerable conditions including asthma, diabetes, high blood pressure etc ( common much? ) - let these people stay out of the way and let the rest of us get on with it. Sure we may get covid and be ok, sure we may get sick and require hospitalisation but we can just move those out without covid and let us been seen first.

Anyone over 60 can watch the world through their windows and we'll throw them the odd bone. To hell with anyone's mental health in that situation. Survival of the fitness lads, you'll all die anyway.

I'm having a good time and that's all that matters.

When we become 60 and have high blood pressure, which won't be long for some of us, will we still be allowed post on Gaaboard?

As a birthday present and by way of compensation for been locked away from that day, you get VIP access to Gaaboard - it's a secret chat room where you get to talk to yourself. Few posters already banned from it after reporting themselves.

Myself and Orior can chat away there.

You's would last a day...tops  :D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 05:52:32 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 10, 2021, 05:06:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 05:00:13 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 10, 2021, 04:57:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 04:42:35 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 10, 2021, 04:39:26 PM
Angelo, just keep ignoring that the reasoning HSE and IMNO are under such pressure is cause of increased community conditions that come from reduce conditions.

By your logic, we should lock everyone away over the age of 60 and those under 60 with vulnerable conditions including asthma, diabetes, high blood pressure etc ( common much? ) - let these people stay out of the way and let the rest of us get on with it. Sure we may get covid and be ok, sure we may get sick and require hospitalisation but we can just move those out without covid and let us been seen first.

Anyone over 60 can watch the world through their windows and we'll throw them the odd bone. To hell with anyone's mental health in that situation. Survival of the fitness lads, you'll all die anyway.

I'm having a good time and that's all that matters.

You keep ignoring what the INMO have said.

They have directly pointed the finger of blame at the govt and HSE for the spread of Covid in hospitals.

Why don't you have the same vigour for the 1.3m road deaths every year. Why is it acceptable they die but people have to forego their liveilhoods jobs, financial security, frienships, support services etc for one virus.

Go out and kill someone on the road, we don't care but don't you dare pass on Covid to someone.

Such an utter hypocrite.

Flu 2017/18 is so last year. It's road deaths now, I see another .3m have died since your last post on road deaths some 20 mins ago.

You've no shame trying to make yourself sound right by throwing round death figures as a way of justifying your own self entitlement to do what you want and to hell with the rest.

And for your record there was 141 road deaths in ROI in 2020, each equally tragic. Was above that in a few days with Covid in January. Fair play a very valid comparison.  ::)

Don't be getting bitchy with me because you have a massive problem with your hypocrisy and double standards being exposed.

More people under the age of 40 die in road traffic accidents than Covid. Why do you justify every other sort of death as acceptable but continue to demand people give up their lives to fight one disease. Your dogmatic contradictions will continue to be exposed here.

Changing your approach again.

I don't accept any justification for any death at all and that's why my I can see the reasoning for the restrictions and lockdown and why everyone has a responsibility in this, not just those you want to lock away on their 60th birthdays.

Why do you feel that those vulnerable and over 60 should be removed from society and locked away so you can do what you want? Is that justified? You seem more than willing to let society function as normal but those at risk can bugger off behind closed doors.

Did you learn the meaning of dogmatic last night reading the dictionary when taking a shite? As you've been throwing into as many posts as possible today.

What's tomorrow's word going to be?

I don't know how you figure my approach has changed when all I have done is show you the facts and use them to highlight your complete and utter hypocrisy?

We are all removed from society as it is for a virus that is not a threat to the vast majority of us. People have lost their livelihoods, businesses, jobs and are being put under financial strain. Kids are missing out on their education, their social development. Vulnerable groupings are being denied the facilities and supports to overcome and assist their disabilities. People's mental and physical health are being impacted on? To what end? So people like can smugly dismiss the needs of anyone other than the at risk demograph from Covid.

It's a pity you don't care half as much about bigger killers such as cancer and heart disease and things we have in society that enables them in smoking, alcohol and fast food and high sugar food and drinks. It's a pity you don't care about road deaths or seasonal flu which kills every year.

It's an awful shame you are in a knot of hypocrisy and feel people who are at risk to Covid are superior to people who die from other ailments.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 06:08:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 03:50:32 PM

I reckon you smell your own shit and think it smells great
I'm all for his right to smell his own shit, unfortunately he's intent on making others smell it too
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 06:10:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 06:08:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 03:50:32 PM

I reckon you smell your own shit and think it smells great
I'm all for his right to smell his own shit, unfortunately he's intent on making others smell it too

That's actually what the dogmatic posters like yourself and Milltown do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 06:12:00 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 10, 2021, 05:01:11 PM
Our CMO keeps moving the goalposts

Only 5 weeks ago the vaccines were our way out of this. Only today he said the vaccines are not the way out of this.
Why is he giving radio interviews is beyond me. Advise the government and give a briefing every week. But when he is on every airwave most days is annoying

3 cases in Omagh Fermanagh

Milltown have you got the slippers on. I'd say you haven't done much in a year.
Think you'll find it's the virus and it's variants moving the goalposts, not the CMO

And they do so because they were let by governments all around the world

The virus and its variants don't care about your feelings
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 10, 2021, 06:15:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 06:10:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 06:08:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 03:50:32 PM

I reckon you smell your own shit and think it smells great
I'm all for his right to smell his own shit, unfortunately he's intent on making others smell it too

That's actually what the dogmatic posters like yourself and Milltown do.

Word of the day alert
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 10, 2021, 06:19:47 PM
But he said in January vaccines were the way out?

What has changed now?

Sure there has been no reported SA cases in Northern Ireland

Did he seriously think it wouldn't mutate?

He is enjoying his new found fame.

Why not give people hope instead of the scaremongering?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 10, 2021, 06:28:21 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 10, 2021, 06:19:47 PM
But he said in January vaccines were the way out?

What has changed now?

Sure there has been no reported SA cases in Northern Ireland

Did he seriously think it wouldn't mutate?

He is enjoying his new found fame.

Why not give people hope instead of the scaremongering?
The CMO deals in facts and bases his comments on his medical experience and knowledge. You'd have to be a sadist to enjoy going on the national airwaves everyday to announce how many people have been infected, died, are in ICU beds etc because of Covid.

It's people's impatience to end the lockdown in December that pressured the government (and opposition TDs) in Ireland to end the lockdown (against NPHET'S advice) in December. We all know how that went!

You would hope people might act more responsibly this time and the government will end the lockdown based on Covid figures/vaccinations rather than pick a date in 4/6 weeks timer as people want to go out drinking on Paddy's day
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 06:45:26 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 10, 2021, 06:19:47 PM
But he said in January vaccines were the way out?

What has changed now?

Sure there has been no reported SA cases in Northern Ireland

Did he seriously think it wouldn't mutate?

He is enjoying his new found fame.

Why not give people hope instead of the scaremongering?
More ascribing of bad faith - which itself is a textbook bad faith strategy

Let's be clear why you do that - it's to encourage people not to listen to him

"Sure there have been no reported SA cases in NI"

Do you seriously think that will remain the case?

It's likely in Ireland because it certainly is in Britain and it's likely plentiful in Europe, big outbreak of it in Austria over the last few days

Vaccines are part of the way out

When Sam McConkey was on radio this time yesterday it seems all those who were desperate to slate him didn't even listen to what he said

He said we need a 3 to 5 year PLAN to deal with Covid - and we DO - this does not necessarily mean lockdowns at all - it won't if the public health experts are actually listened to and we do what we need to do

The alternative is to say "don't plan"

Which would be really f**king dumb

What sort of person wants no plan

A lot of people online, by the looks of things, presuming all of them are real

But sure we all know internet experts are the real experts, don't we

"Experts" like Professor Parkinson and Professor MacKenna and Professor 62942482

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 06:47:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 06:45:26 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 10, 2021, 06:19:47 PM
But he said in January vaccines were the way out?

What has changed now?

Sure there has been no reported SA cases in Northern Ireland

Did he seriously think it wouldn't mutate?

He is enjoying his new found fame.

Why not give people hope instead of the scaremongering?
More ascribing of bad faith - which itself is a textbook bad faith strategy

Let's be clear why you do that - it's to encourage people not to listen to him

"Sure there have been no reported SA cases in NI"

Do you seriously think that will remain the case?

It's likely in Ireland because it certainly is in Britain and it's likely plentiful in Europe, big outbreak of it in Austria over the last few days

Vaccines are part of the way out

When Sam McConkey was on radio this time yesterday it seems all those who were desperate to slate him didn't even listen to what he said

He said we need a 3 to 5 year PLAN to deal with Covid - and we DO - this does not necessarily mean lockdowns at all - it won't if the public health experts are actually listened to and we do what we need to do

The alternative is to say "don't plan"

Which would be really f**king dumb

What sort of person wants no plan

A lot of people online, by the looks of things, presuming all of them are real

But sure we all know internet experts are the real experts, don't we

"Experts" like Professor Parkinson and Professor MacKenna and Professor 62942482

"Experts" like McConkey have a seriously bad record of what they had said so far.

He is far from credible but bizarrely seems to be given a platfrom to get it wrong again and again and again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 06:51:37 PM
McConkey has been one of the most responsible public voices during the whole thing

We need much, much more of him and much, much less clueless internet blowhards like you
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 10, 2021, 06:54:32 PM
Can ye all PLEASE put that poster on IGNORE?
Thanks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 06:56:56 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 10, 2021, 06:54:32 PM
Can ye all PLEASE put that poster on IGNORE?
Thanks.

Look at princess lobbying posters to do what he can't even do himself.

Absolutely pathetic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on February 10, 2021, 06:57:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 06:51:37 PM
McConkey has been one of the most responsible public voices during the whole thing

We need much, much more of him and much, much less clueless internet blowhards like you

As I told you already he's been less than responsible with his over the top death predictions.

Last week he came on the news talking about vaccines and he literally made zero sense. Contradicted himself a few times, was rambling a lot and mumbling answers. A complete and utter bluffer
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on February 10, 2021, 07:12:30 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/northern-ireland/56017837
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 06:51:37 PM
McConkey has been one of the most responsible public voices during the whole thing

We need much, much more of him and much, much less clueless internet blowhards like you

He has been unbelievably wrong and out of touch.

What planet are you living on Sid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 07:15:09 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 10, 2021, 06:57:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 06:51:37 PM
McConkey has been one of the most responsible public voices during the whole thing

We need much, much more of him and much, much less clueless internet blowhards like you

As I told you already he's been less than responsible with his over the top death predictions.

Last week he came on the news talking about vaccines and he literally made zero sense. Contradicted himself a few times, was rambling a lot and mumbling answers. A complete and utter bluffer
On the contrary, he was spelling out what could happen - and he was entirely correct to do so

That's proper, responsible public messaging

You're an internet blowhard who thinks they know more than than McConkey

You should get onto the Royal College of Surgeons, see if they agree  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 07:20:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 07:15:09 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 10, 2021, 06:57:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 06:51:37 PM
McConkey has been one of the most responsible public voices during the whole thing

We need much, much more of him and much, much less clueless internet blowhards like you

As I told you already he's been less than responsible with his over the top death predictions.

Last week he came on the news talking about vaccines and he literally made zero sense. Contradicted himself a few times, was rambling a lot and mumbling answers. A complete and utter bluffer
On the contrary, he was spelling out what could happen - and he was entirely correct to do so

That's proper, responsible public messaging

You're an internet blowhard who thinks they know more than than McConkey

You should get onto the Royal College of Surgeons, see if they agree  ;D

This is Goebbels levels of propaganda.

McConkey has zero credibility at this point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 07:25:41 PM
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/0/f/0fda019b40b4b29fcac2fb7422b5331a6947c075.jpeg)

Anyone who listens to that quack McConkey as a credible source is need of sectioning.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on February 10, 2021, 07:33:46 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 07:15:09 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 10, 2021, 06:57:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 06:51:37 PM
McConkey has been one of the most responsible public voices during the whole thing

We need much, much more of him and much, much less clueless internet blowhards like you

As I told you already he's been less than responsible with his over the top death predictions.

Last week he came on the news talking about vaccines and he literally made zero sense. Contradicted himself a few times, was rambling a lot and mumbling answers. A complete and utter bluffer
On the contrary, he was spelling out what could happen - and he was entirely correct to do so

That's proper, responsible public messaging

You're an internet blowhard who thinks they know more than than McConkey

You should get onto the Royal College of Surgeons, see if they agree  ;D

For the record Parkinson and McKenna I believe are gobshites so don't think I'm on their side. My point is on how you seem to think Sam Mcconkey is acting responsible.

For the last year he's talked up the worst case scenarios as high possibility and I can't even imagine what that is doing for mental health for those watching especially the elderly that are locked in their homes for a year and such talk is far acting responsible. RTÉ, Virgin are as much to blame as anyone for this for wheeling him out when they need another dose of misery.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 08:10:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 07:20:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 07:15:09 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on February 10, 2021, 06:57:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 06:51:37 PM
McConkey has been one of the most responsible public voices during the whole thing

We need much, much more of him and much, much less clueless internet blowhards like you

As I told you already he's been less than responsible with his over the top death predictions.

Last week he came on the news talking about vaccines and he literally made zero sense. Contradicted himself a few times, was rambling a lot and mumbling answers. A complete and utter bluffer
On the contrary, he was spelling out what could happen - and he was entirely correct to do so

That's proper, responsible public messaging

You're an internet blowhard who thinks they know more than than McConkey

You should get onto the Royal College of Surgeons, see if they agree  ;D

This is Goebbels levels of propaganda.

McConkey has zero credibility at this point.
Always with the illiterate Nazi references

Oh the irony, when you've actually been proposing a holocaust for the best part of a year
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 08:16:52 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 10, 2021, 05:01:11 PM
Our CMO keeps moving the goalposts

Only 5 weeks ago the vaccines were our way out of this. Only today he said the vaccines are not the way out of this.
Why is he giving radio interviews is beyond me. Advise the government and give a briefing every week. But when he is on every airwave most days is annoying

3 cases in Omagh Fermanagh

Milltown have you got the slippers on. I'd say you haven't done much in a year.

Which part of being working full time since June do you not understand?

I've said this a number of times, though with your train of though and memory (we'd low numbers in March and April) I can understand your difficulty in keeping thing in your head.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 08:20:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 04:52:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 04:47:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 04:35:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 03:50:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 02:58:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 02:34:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 02:13:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 02:10:17 PM
Quote from: Seamus on February 10, 2021, 02:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 12:35:00 PM
The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

You are describing poor old Sid there.
Mentally I have indeed found the last few weeks challenging given that my father was dying from hospital acquired Covid and then died from it

I think I'm doing alright considering, but still have a challenging period to navigate

You and Angelo obviously find that worthy of ridicule though - which fairly obliterates your fake "concern" for mental health, doesn't it

Sorry for your loss Sid.

I have spoken at length that the hospital transmission rates are absolutely scandalous and it is scandalous that the govt and HSE have ignored the continued warnings about the spread of Covid in hospital settings. The fact that over 50% of Covid related deaths in the south occurred in nursing homes is also scandalous.
Hospital transmission rates are a direct function of rampant community spread - and nothing else

As is the case with spread in nursing homes

Why? Because the people who work in hospitals live in the community - across the road from me, four nurses live together in the same house

Once one of them gets it, they will inadvertantly bring it into the hospital, and Covid spreads both through close contact and through the air

Hospital and nursing home patients require close contact, and they also have to breath air

And good as the sort of masks used in hospitals are, the air that staff breath out still has to go somewhere

The actual scandal is the narrative we could open up without a plan without serious outbreaks in hospitals and nursing homes occurring

That narrative was allowed to spread like wildfire

Policy in Ireland has cowed far too much to vested interests like business, who demanded opening up without having a clue what they are talking about

Public health experts and actual epidemology experts have been marginalised since last summer, and instead the government took the Homer Simpson approach

Actual policy that was proven to work was dismissed - "if something is difficult, it's not worth doing"

This has been a general failure in Europe and the west - on this theme I again encourage people to read Naomi O'Leary's Irish Times article from October 31st - she has been one of the most cogent writers about this crisis throughout
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-west-has-failed-us-and-europe-have-made-a-mess-of-handling-the-crisis-1.4395473

And so we all end up in a much more a difficult position - and the people that are now crying about the effects of lockdowns refuse to have the decency to face up to the fact that the position we are currently in and have had to suffer since summer is the actual result of what they were screaming for

These were political decisions by politicians who only have the ability to think in the short term

In fact if we had listened to the anti-lockdown, anti-plan crackpots like you we would be in a much, much worse position than the already very bad position we are in

The INMO do not see it that way and laid the blame solely at the feet of the HSE and govt. They said their concerns were ignored for months and month regarding PPE and distancing between beds, use of private hospitals etc. The PPE problems were still an issue up until last month.

Rapid testing was only introduced to hospitals in the south last week and that is absolutely scandalous when you look at the levels of transmission in a hospital setting. The only person I know of personally that has died from Covid was an 83 year old man who picked it up in hospital while in for blood transfusions he has to get due to some underlying health issue he has.

If the proper PPE, proper additional resources to healthcare capacity and quicker introduction of rapid testing to hospitals and care home facilities were introduced the number of deaths would have been significantly lower, irrespective of the level of infection in the community.

Over 50% alone are from nursing homes, the vulnerable people have been failed by the state and the health executive and that is the big scandal.

The common man has to suffer the implications of lockdown on their employment, their finances and their mental and physical wellbeing because those in charge messed up the handling of this crisis and where is the accountability for that?

There are a lot of If's

King of hindsight, everyone knows that the government fucked it up, everyone knows the nursing homes were under prepared and sending sick infected patients back into the nursing homes caused (still in cases) untold deaths, not that you are concerned with that, as according to your mindset, they are, on average, only going to be there for a year..

Had we had you, king of the keyboards on the job or you had the ear of anyone outside of your single bed bedroom to help in these matters we'd be in a lot better shape.

Rapid testing wasn't always available, brilliant that it is used now. PPE wasn't available as the world was looking for it, getting your hands on it at the start was difficult, by then the horse had bolted.

The borders should have been closed along with the airports at the start, I was wary of that at the time as I didn't in fairness have the hindsight of how this was going to turn out.

I reckon you smell your own shit and think it smells great

Surely rapid testing, irrespective of its reliability should have been introduced at the first stage of availability in order to minimise the risk of covid transmissions in hospital. Surely no money should have been spared to make sure all frontline staff were adequately protected with PPE, to stop infection and staff shortages. There were failings on a catastrophic levels.

Nice snide dig about people with keyboards. High ranking elected officials and high rank civil servants are paid the big money to get these decisions right, not only did they get it wrong, they got it wrong to catastrophic levels and should be held to account.

The narrative seems to be that the CMOs, health service and govt officials are above questioning on the things they have got badly wrong. They have no problem enforcing lockdowns, laying people off, shutting down business and services, restricting us from seeing our friends and loved ones but they cannot introduce regulations and provisions that would give frontline workers the adequate supports to carry out their job.

They should and hopefully will be held accountable, that's not going to solve the problems we have now!

You're talking about stuff that they were ill prepared for even though they had a plan in place to deal with it, they neither acted on the plan nor had the PPE, staff, bravery or balls to actually close the place down and kill the transmissions at the start!

No lets have Cheltenham and football and CL games going on, opened up air avenues for everyone to bring it in. How they have the cheek now to enforce the travel bans and force people into 'covid hotels' is beyond me.

Nothing you have said on this anyone will disagree with (for a change) but the horse bolted the gates stayed open and they were not prepared

It could have solved a lot of problems back then. Minimal coverage has been given to these failings, so we now have a culture where it's ok for those tasked with managing this crisis with free reign to make mistakes and not act in the public interest.

Would providing proper PPE and introducing rapid testing to hospitals a lot earlier not have served a far greater benefit to society as a whole than laying people off, shutting schools down, closing business and supports services for people with mental and physical disabilities?

Ok I'm only going to repeat myself one more time. We didn't have rapid testing at the start only recently, we also as a nation north and south were competing with the rest of the world for PPE, we'd a huge short fall as did every other country bar China!

That would have fixed the schools, hospitals, business and every topic bar the 17/18 flu you've been on!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on February 10, 2021, 08:22:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 12:35:00 PM
The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 07:25:41 PM
Anyone who listens to that quack McConkey as a credible source is need of sectioning.

The repeated use of this kind of terminology today does not sit well with your longstanding claims of concern for those suffering from mental health problems.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 08:25:37 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on February 10, 2021, 08:22:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 12:35:00 PM
The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 07:25:41 PM
Anyone who listens to that quack McConkey as a credible source is need of sectioning.

The repeated use of this kind of terminology today does not sit well with your longstanding claims of concern for those suffering from mental health problems.

Does not give one fuvk for mental health, not one. Never in his puff posted about it on a particular thread on here either. So a WUM at full pelt
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 10, 2021, 08:39:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 07:25:41 PM
Anyone who listens to that quack McConkey as a credible source is need of sectioning.

Firstly, as others have noted, this is an inappropriate use of language.

On what date did McConkey make the forecasts you posted?
The death rate in ROI for tested cases is about 1.8%. Now we all know that there are as many untested cases again. But the point is that if the epidemic was allowed run uncontrolled then a death rate of 1%+ was a reasonable forecast as the the health service would be overwhelmed. Again 20% of people getting it is hardly far out, given the speed at which it spread at Christmas for instance.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 08:55:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 08:20:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 04:52:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 04:47:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 04:35:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2021, 03:50:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 02:58:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 02:34:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 02:13:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 02:10:17 PM
Quote from: Seamus on February 10, 2021, 02:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 12:35:00 PM
The debate we should be having is on what is the greater good but the lockdown nutters will not countenance this discussion.

I think the lockdown nutters are either extremely naive and gullible or mentally unwell. It seems that the chief medical officers and celebrity scientists have now taken over the role of parish priests and bishops in being completely infallible and having cult like following from the lockdown nutters.

You are describing poor old Sid there.
Mentally I have indeed found the last few weeks challenging given that my father was dying from hospital acquired Covid and then died from it

I think I'm doing alright considering, but still have a challenging period to navigate

You and Angelo obviously find that worthy of ridicule though - which fairly obliterates your fake "concern" for mental health, doesn't it

Sorry for your loss Sid.

I have spoken at length that the hospital transmission rates are absolutely scandalous and it is scandalous that the govt and HSE have ignored the continued warnings about the spread of Covid in hospital settings. The fact that over 50% of Covid related deaths in the south occurred in nursing homes is also scandalous.
Hospital transmission rates are a direct function of rampant community spread - and nothing else

As is the case with spread in nursing homes

Why? Because the people who work in hospitals live in the community - across the road from me, four nurses live together in the same house

Once one of them gets it, they will inadvertantly bring it into the hospital, and Covid spreads both through close contact and through the air

Hospital and nursing home patients require close contact, and they also have to breath air

And good as the sort of masks used in hospitals are, the air that staff breath out still has to go somewhere

The actual scandal is the narrative we could open up without a plan without serious outbreaks in hospitals and nursing homes occurring

That narrative was allowed to spread like wildfire

Policy in Ireland has cowed far too much to vested interests like business, who demanded opening up without having a clue what they are talking about

Public health experts and actual epidemology experts have been marginalised since last summer, and instead the government took the Homer Simpson approach

Actual policy that was proven to work was dismissed - "if something is difficult, it's not worth doing"

This has been a general failure in Europe and the west - on this theme I again encourage people to read Naomi O'Leary's Irish Times article from October 31st - she has been one of the most cogent writers about this crisis throughout
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-west-has-failed-us-and-europe-have-made-a-mess-of-handling-the-crisis-1.4395473

And so we all end up in a much more a difficult position - and the people that are now crying about the effects of lockdowns refuse to have the decency to face up to the fact that the position we are currently in and have had to suffer since summer is the actual result of what they were screaming for

These were political decisions by politicians who only have the ability to think in the short term

In fact if we had listened to the anti-lockdown, anti-plan crackpots like you we would be in a much, much worse position than the already very bad position we are in

The INMO do not see it that way and laid the blame solely at the feet of the HSE and govt. They said their concerns were ignored for months and month regarding PPE and distancing between beds, use of private hospitals etc. The PPE problems were still an issue up until last month.

Rapid testing was only introduced to hospitals in the south last week and that is absolutely scandalous when you look at the levels of transmission in a hospital setting. The only person I know of personally that has died from Covid was an 83 year old man who picked it up in hospital while in for blood transfusions he has to get due to some underlying health issue he has.

If the proper PPE, proper additional resources to healthcare capacity and quicker introduction of rapid testing to hospitals and care home facilities were introduced the number of deaths would have been significantly lower, irrespective of the level of infection in the community.

Over 50% alone are from nursing homes, the vulnerable people have been failed by the state and the health executive and that is the big scandal.

The common man has to suffer the implications of lockdown on their employment, their finances and their mental and physical wellbeing because those in charge messed up the handling of this crisis and where is the accountability for that?

There are a lot of If's

King of hindsight, everyone knows that the government fucked it up, everyone knows the nursing homes were under prepared and sending sick infected patients back into the nursing homes caused (still in cases) untold deaths, not that you are concerned with that, as according to your mindset, they are, on average, only going to be there for a year..

Had we had you, king of the keyboards on the job or you had the ear of anyone outside of your single bed bedroom to help in these matters we'd be in a lot better shape.

Rapid testing wasn't always available, brilliant that it is used now. PPE wasn't available as the world was looking for it, getting your hands on it at the start was difficult, by then the horse had bolted.

The borders should have been closed along with the airports at the start, I was wary of that at the time as I didn't in fairness have the hindsight of how this was going to turn out.

I reckon you smell your own shit and think it smells great

Surely rapid testing, irrespective of its reliability should have been introduced at the first stage of availability in order to minimise the risk of covid transmissions in hospital. Surely no money should have been spared to make sure all frontline staff were adequately protected with PPE, to stop infection and staff shortages. There were failings on a catastrophic levels.

Nice snide dig about people with keyboards. High ranking elected officials and high rank civil servants are paid the big money to get these decisions right, not only did they get it wrong, they got it wrong to catastrophic levels and should be held to account.

The narrative seems to be that the CMOs, health service and govt officials are above questioning on the things they have got badly wrong. They have no problem enforcing lockdowns, laying people off, shutting down business and services, restricting us from seeing our friends and loved ones but they cannot introduce regulations and provisions that would give frontline workers the adequate supports to carry out their job.

They should and hopefully will be held accountable, that's not going to solve the problems we have now!

You're talking about stuff that they were ill prepared for even though they had a plan in place to deal with it, they neither acted on the plan nor had the PPE, staff, bravery or balls to actually close the place down and kill the transmissions at the start!

No lets have Cheltenham and football and CL games going on, opened up air avenues for everyone to bring it in. How they have the cheek now to enforce the travel bans and force people into 'covid hotels' is beyond me.

Nothing you have said on this anyone will disagree with (for a change) but the horse bolted the gates stayed open and they were not prepared

It could have solved a lot of problems back then. Minimal coverage has been given to these failings, so we now have a culture where it's ok for those tasked with managing this crisis with free reign to make mistakes and not act in the public interest.

Would providing proper PPE and introducing rapid testing to hospitals a lot earlier not have served a far greater benefit to society as a whole than laying people off, shutting schools down, closing business and supports services for people with mental and physical disabilities?

Ok I'm only going to repeat myself one more time. We didn't have rapid testing at the start only recently, we also as a nation north and south were competing with the rest of the world for PPE, we'd a huge short fall as did every other country bar China!

That would have fixed the schools, hospitals, business and every topic bar the 17/18 flu you've been on!

Rapid testing has been available for months, long before the Christmas surge. We know of the high transmission rates in hospitals. Lack of PPE and lack of testing of patients admitted and staff starting shifts would almost certainly have reduced transmission and as a result, deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 09:14:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2021, 08:39:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 07:25:41 PM
Anyone who listens to that quack McConkey as a credible source is need of sectioning.

Firstly, as others have noted, this is an inappropriate use of language.

On what date did McConkey make the forecasts you posted?
The death rate in ROI for tested cases is about 1.8%. Now we all know that there are as many untested cases again. But the point is that if the epidemic was allowed run uncontrolled then a death rate of 1%+ was a reasonable forecast as the the health service would be overwhelmed. Again 20% of people getting it is hardly far out, given the speed at which it spread at Christmas for instance.

Why did you decide to edit out the article that contained him overestimating deaths by about 4,000%?

He has zero credibility on this, he has been wrong on about every proclamation he has made. How he still gets a platform to drive his dose of fear on national media is incredible.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 10, 2021, 09:55:37 PM
In November 2019 road safety expert Danny McClutch reacted to the All Knowing Internet Expert Party™'s "ROAD FREEDOM" proposals to allow unlimited drink driving and brakeless cars, abolish speed limits and ban seat belts by predicting that passing the proposals into legislation would result in a massive increase in road deaths, possibly thousands

The proposals were rejected outright by lawmakers and current road safety laws retained

In January 2021, spokesman for the All Knowing Internet Expert Party™ Fulvio Gobshitio pointed to the reduced number of road deaths for 2020, achieved under the retained road safety laws, as "conclusive evidence that our proposals need to be implemented now", and slammed McClutch as "a fool, a scaremongerer, mentally ill - just look at the 2020 stats which CONCLUSIVELY back up the need for "ROAD FREEDOM""

Gobshitio then claimed that the All Knowing Internet Expert™ Party were being silenced by the "PC brigade"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 08:00:51 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 09:14:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2021, 08:39:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 07:25:41 PM
Anyone who listens to that quack McConkey as a credible source is need of sectioning.

Firstly, as others have noted, this is an inappropriate use of language.

On what date did McConkey make the forecasts you posted?
The death rate in ROI for tested cases is about 1.8%. Now we all know that there are as many untested cases again. But the point is that if the epidemic was allowed run uncontrolled then a death rate of 1%+ was a reasonable forecast as the the health service would be overwhelmed. Again 20% of people getting it is hardly far out, given the speed at which it spread at Christmas for instance.

Why did you decide to edit out the article that contained him overestimating deaths by about 4,000%?

He has zero credibility on this, he has been wrong on about every proclamation he has made. How he still gets a platform to drive his dose of fear on national media is incredible.

Angelo, I completely agree with you on McConkey. He should be kept off the airways. Everything he has said has proven to be bullshit. How he is never challenged by anyone on the media on his false predictions I dont know. The other day on Matt Cooper was an embarassment for Irish Journalism, letting him spout utter bullshit unchallenged. I also have a big problem with Holohan who is trying to reinvent himself after the cervical smear debacle. These guys are loving the limelight. What should be happening is that they give their advice to government behind closed doors, government weighs it up with all the other advice (mental health, children welfare, job losses etc) and then makes the best appropriate decision. Instead these NPHET people have been allowed to effectively run the country by media. Its incredible. And I am not a COVID denier, its a dangerous disease but my issue is there is no evident balance at the moment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 11, 2021, 09:03:55 AM
 5,200 Irish people return from holidays abroad in one week

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-concern-as-5-200-irish-people-return-from-holidays-abroad-in-one-week-1.4481242
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2021, 09:45:45 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 11, 2021, 09:03:55 AM
5,200 Irish people return from holidays abroad in one week

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-concern-as-5-200-irish-people-return-from-holidays-abroad-in-one-week-1.4481242

Hopefully they'll follow guidelines and quarantine for 2 weeks.......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 11, 2021, 09:53:25 AM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 08:00:51 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 09:14:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2021, 08:39:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 07:25:41 PM
Anyone who listens to that quack McConkey as a credible source is need of sectioning.

Firstly, as others have noted, this is an inappropriate use of language.

On what date did McConkey make the forecasts you posted?
The death rate in ROI for tested cases is about 1.8%. Now we all know that there are as many untested cases again. But the point is that if the epidemic was allowed run uncontrolled then a death rate of 1%+ was a reasonable forecast as the the health service would be overwhelmed. Again 20% of people getting it is hardly far out, given the speed at which it spread at Christmas for instance.

Why did you decide to edit out the article that contained him overestimating deaths by about 4,000%?

He has zero credibility on this, he has been wrong on about every proclamation he has made. How he still gets a platform to drive his dose of fear on national media is incredible.

Angelo, I completely agree with you on McConkey. He should be kept off the airways. Everything he has said has proven to be bullshit. How he is never challenged by anyone on the media on his false predictions I dont know. The other day on Matt Cooper was an embarassment for Irish Journalism, letting him spout utter bullshit unchallenged. I also have a big problem with Holohan who is trying to reinvent himself after the cervical smear debacle. These guys are loving the limelight. What should be happening is that they give their advice to government behind closed doors, government weighs it up with all the other advice (mental health, children welfare, job losses etc) and then makes the best appropriate decision. Instead these NPHET people have been allowed to effectively run the country by media. Its incredible. And I am not a COVID denier, its a dangerous disease but my issue is there is no evident balance at the moment.

I'm not racist but......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 09:56:43 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 11, 2021, 09:53:25 AM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 08:00:51 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 09:14:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 10, 2021, 08:39:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 10, 2021, 07:25:41 PM
Anyone who listens to that quack McConkey as a credible source is need of sectioning.

Firstly, as others have noted, this is an inappropriate use of language.

On what date did McConkey make the forecasts you posted?
The death rate in ROI for tested cases is about 1.8%. Now we all know that there are as many untested cases again. But the point is that if the epidemic was allowed run uncontrolled then a death rate of 1%+ was a reasonable forecast as the the health service would be overwhelmed. Again 20% of people getting it is hardly far out, given the speed at which it spread at Christmas for instance.

Why did you decide to edit out the article that contained him overestimating deaths by about 4,000%?

He has zero credibility on this, he has been wrong on about every proclamation he has made. How he still gets a platform to drive his dose of fear on national media is incredible.

Angelo, I completely agree with you on McConkey. He should be kept off the airways. Everything he has said has proven to be bullshit. How he is never challenged by anyone on the media on his false predictions I dont know. The other day on Matt Cooper was an embarassment for Irish Journalism, letting him spout utter bullshit unchallenged. I also have a big problem with Holohan who is trying to reinvent himself after the cervical smear debacle. These guys are loving the limelight. What should be happening is that they give their advice to government behind closed doors, government weighs it up with all the other advice (mental health, children welfare, job losses etc) and then makes the best appropriate decision. Instead these NPHET people have been allowed to effectively run the country by media. Its incredible. And I am not a COVID denier, its a dangerous disease but my issue is there is no evident balance at the moment.

I'm not racist but......

Thats a really smart comment Rossfan, you are the quare smart fella.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on February 11, 2021, 10:12:39 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56019995  (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56019995)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2021, 10:42:42 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 11, 2021, 10:12:39 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56019995  (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56019995)

Prof Peacock told Newscast that while it is normal to see variants only a very small number have "special features". These can make them more transmissible, avoid the immune response and affect vaccination, or have the potential to cause more severe disease.

"These are the things we are looking out for. I'd say it happens vanishingly rarely but we have to be on the look out for it," the expert, who was previously director of the government's National Infection Service, said.

Lets get a big headline in the news, then use this comment at the end?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 11:42:19 AM
The more this goes on the more concerned I am about politicians and media than I am about the virus. Here's what should be done in my opinion...

- McConkey, Holohan and the rest, told to report direct to government with their advice. Get them off the TV and the late late show. They do not speak for the government.
- We need need some proper leadership from Michael Martin, he is sadly lacking in this but he would want to sort himself out quickly.
- An appeal to media to start reporting sensibly. Fear sells and dont they know it.
- An appeal to the opposition to start action responsibly. We are in a pandemic which requires risk v reward thinking. We cannot possibly save every person in the country from COVID. People need to understand that and opposition need to stop enflaming it. Likewise supporting greedy self serving groups like ASTI who are now starting to talk about pay.
- Government, media, opposition, layout the reality of the situation and be honest with people.

If we continue the way we are going we will never get out of this Level 3 to Level 5 cycle cos Holohan and McConkey and the ASTI and others will tells us the world will never be safe again. We need to start living again for the sake of our kids.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 11, 2021, 11:46:24 AM
Ignore medical advice and then complain that the Covid won't go away ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 11, 2021, 12:06:30 PM
@Itchy

The more this goes on the more concerned I am about politicians and media than I am about the virus.

It seems you're concerned about politicians and media for entirely the wrong reasons

Here's what should be done in my opinion...

- McConkey, Holohan and the rest, told to report direct to government with their advice.

Holohan does report to government

Why should McConkey do so? He's not on NPHET

Get them off the TV and the late late show.

Why? Isn't that censorship?

They do not speak for the government.

You want North Korean style TV?

- We need need some proper leadership from Michael Martin, he is sadly lacking in this but he would want to sort himself out quickly.

Yeah, but it's pretty obvious the "proper leadership" you want would be a lot worse than the current leadership because you want to totally ignore the epidemiological reality

- An appeal to media to start reporting sensibly.

Another call for censorship from you

Fear sells and dont they know it.

Fear is extremely rational currently, why would you think it isn't?

- An appeal to the opposition to start action responsibly.

What's "responsibly"? This is a vacuous inanity

We are in a pandemic which requires risk v reward thinking.

This is a vacuous inanity

We cannot possibly save every person in the country from COVID.

This is a vacuous inanity

People need to understand that and opposition need to stop enflaming it.

This is a vacuous inanity

Likewise supporting greedy self serving groups like ASTI who are now starting to talk about pay.

Yeah, because the teachers are the real problem here, or something something, deary me

- Government, media, opposition, layout the reality of the situation and be honest with people.

Earlier in this post you wanted censorship

If we continue the way we are going we will never get out of this Level 3 to Level 5 cycle cos Holohan and McConkey and the ASTI and others will tells us the world will never be safe again.

If we continue as we are going we may not get out of it - but for the exact opposite reasons to what you think

We need to start living again for the sake of our kids.

This is a vacuous inanity

Everybody wants to start living again - but we can't do so until we have a plan which deals with the epidemiological reality

We can't do so until we have a plan which crushes Covid and keeps it crushed

Nowhere in this post have you addressed this reality
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 12:10:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 11, 2021, 11:46:24 AM
Ignore medical advice and then complain that the Covid won't go away ::)

You do know there is more medical advice than just Nephet dont you? Using stupid emojis and smart arsed short replies doesnt make you clever lad. Lets hear the data on the people who are getting serious cancer diagnoses as a result of cancelled cancelled tests, lets hear about the suicide number increases, lets hear the stats on childhood depression and anxiety. Lets hear about all the job losses and how you will be paying back your covid payment once you do get a job.

Why do you only want to listen to only the information coming from St Tony? Especially when his track record is far from unblemished. If you cannot see his group has only one blinkered view on this topic which effects every walk of then I am not sure what anyone can do for you except to tell you to find a cave in Roscommon and get used to finishing your years in it cos the risk will never be zero.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 12:12:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 11, 2021, 12:06:30 PM
@Itchy

The more this goes on the more concerned I am about politicians and media than I am about the virus.

It seems you're concerned about politicians and media for entirely the wrong reasons

Here's what should be done in my opinion...

- McConkey, Holohan and the rest, told to report direct to government with their advice.

Holohan does report to government

Why should McConkey do so? He's not on NPHET

Get them off the TV and the late late show.

Why? Isn't that censorship?

They do not speak for the government.

You want North Korean style TV?

- We need need some proper leadership from Michael Martin, he is sadly lacking in this but he would want to sort himself out quickly.

Yeah, but it's pretty obvious the "proper leadership" you want would be a lot worse than the current leadership because you want to totally ignore the epidemiological reality

- An appeal to media to start reporting sensibly.

Another call for censorship from you

Fear sells and dont they know it.

Fear is extremely rational currently, why would you think it isn't?

- An appeal to the opposition to start action responsibly.

What's "responsibly"? This is a vacuous inanity

We are in a pandemic which requires risk v reward thinking.

This is a vacuous inanity

We cannot possibly save every person in the country from COVID.

This is a vacuous inanity

People need to understand that and opposition need to stop enflaming it.

This is a vacuous inanity

Likewise supporting greedy self serving groups like ASTI who are now starting to talk about pay.

Yeah, because the teachers are the real problem here, or something something, deary me

- Government, media, opposition, layout the reality of the situation and be honest with people.

Earlier in this post you wanted censorship

If we continue the way we are going we will never get out of this Level 3 to Level 5 cycle cos Holohan and McConkey and the ASTI and others will tells us the world will never be safe again.

If we continue as we are going we may not get out of it - but for the exact opposite reasons to what you think

We need to start living again for the sake of our kids.

This is a vacuous inanity

Everybody wants to start living again - but we can't do so until we have a plan which deals with the epidemiological reality

We can't do so until we have a plan which crushes Covid and keeps it crushed

Nowhere in this post have you addressed this reality

SID - you are not a person I am interested in debating with on any subject based on your form here on a number of threads. So do me a favour and please dont engage with me thanks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 11, 2021, 12:15:55 PM
Good points Itchy, well made

I am now suitably chastened by that outpointing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 11, 2021, 12:27:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 12:10:44 PM
You do know there is more medical advice than just Nephet dont you? Using stupid emojis and smart arsed short replies doesnt make you clever lad. Lets hear the data on the people who are getting serious cancer diagnoses as a result of cancelled cancelled tests, lets hear about the suicide number increases, lets hear the stats on childhood depression and anxiety. Lets hear about all the job losses and how you will be paying back your covid payment once you do get a job.

Here we have the cancer people again. The only way we can improve treatment for people with other health conditions is to reduce the pressure on the health service, which means reducing Covid. Anyone who claims that easing restrictions will help cancer patients is talking dangerous nonsense. Depression etc is a bit more complicated, but the feeling that you may get a disease and that other people do not care if they give it you is going to depress a lot of people, whatever the government does.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 12:32:53 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 12:10:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 11, 2021, 11:46:24 AM
Ignore medical advice and then complain that the Covid won't go away ::)

You do know there is more medical advice than just Nephet dont you? Using stupid emojis and smart arsed short replies doesnt make you clever lad. Lets hear the data on the people who are getting serious cancer diagnoses as a result of cancelled cancelled tests, lets hear about the suicide number increases, lets hear the stats on childhood depression and anxiety. Lets hear about all the job losses and how you will be paying back your covid payment once you do get a job.

Why do you only want to listen to only the information coming from St Tony? Especially when his track record is far from unblemished. If you cannot see his group has only one blinkered view on this topic which effects every walk of then I am not sure what anyone can do for you except to tell you to find a cave in Roscommon and get used to finishing your years in it cos the risk will never be zero.

Spot on.

Expect to have those points ignored and have to deal with loads of personal insults and characterisations as a result though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 12:33:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 11, 2021, 12:27:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 12:10:44 PM
You do know there is more medical advice than just Nephet dont you? Using stupid emojis and smart arsed short replies doesnt make you clever lad. Lets hear the data on the people who are getting serious cancer diagnoses as a result of cancelled cancelled tests, lets hear about the suicide number increases, lets hear the stats on childhood depression and anxiety. Lets hear about all the job losses and how you will be paying back your covid payment once you do get a job.

Here we have the cancer people again. The only way we can improve treatment for people with other health conditions is to reduce the pressure on the health service, which means reducing Covid. Anyone who claims that easing restrictions will help cancer patients is talking dangerous nonsense. Depression etc is a bit more complicated, but the feeling that you may get a disease and that other people do not care if they give it you is going to depress a lot of people, whatever the government does.

Why is there a reduction in breast cancer screenings?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 11, 2021, 12:36:23 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 12:10:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 11, 2021, 11:46:24 AM
Ignore medical advice and then complain that the Covid won't go away ::)

You do know there is more medical advice than just Nephet dont you? Using stupid emojis and smart arsed short replies doesnt make you clever lad. Lets hear the data on the people who are getting serious cancer diagnoses as a result of cancelled cancelled tests, lets hear about the suicide number increases, lets hear the stats on childhood depression and anxiety. Lets hear about all the job losses and how you will be paying back your covid payment once you do get a job.

Why do you only want to listen to only the information coming from St Tony? Especially when his track record is far from unblemished. If you cannot see his group has only one blinkered view on this topic which effects every walk of then I am not sure what anyone can do for you except to tell you to find a cave in Roscommon and get used to finishing your years in it cos the risk will never be zero.

The cancer assessments and depression issues are very true and absolutely should be a focus and discussed in addition to Covid. But the problem with Covid is that it got so wide spread that it affects the ability of the HSE/ NHS to deal with other illnesses. When it's allowed to run freely the health services can't cope and are over run. When the health services are over run more people die, not just from Covid but from all illnesses.
I do believe there should be more focus on elective surgery and plans to deal with Cancer assessments, etc. But I think they are doing what they are capable of. The easiest way to take pressure of the health trusts is to reduce Covid. Reducing Covid means we have to deal with restrictions. And I think this is what the medical professionals are trying to get across. Once numbers drop there is an automatic reaction by the public to get restrictions lifted (Understandably). I suppose these people are trying to provide that balance so we don't lose the run of ourself again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 11, 2021, 12:46:12 PM
+1.
In the 26 Taoiseach gave us "leadership" and we started "living" in December.
Result...as many if not more cases in January than March to December 2020 inclusive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 01:14:41 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 11, 2021, 12:36:23 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 12:10:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 11, 2021, 11:46:24 AM
Ignore medical advice and then complain that the Covid won't go away ::)

You do know there is more medical advice than just Nephet dont you? Using stupid emojis and smart arsed short replies doesnt make you clever lad. Lets hear the data on the people who are getting serious cancer diagnoses as a result of cancelled cancelled tests, lets hear about the suicide number increases, lets hear the stats on childhood depression and anxiety. Lets hear about all the job losses and how you will be paying back your covid payment once you do get a job.

Why do you only want to listen to only the information coming from St Tony? Especially when his track record is far from unblemished. If you cannot see his group has only one blinkered view on this topic which effects every walk of then I am not sure what anyone can do for you except to tell you to find a cave in Roscommon and get used to finishing your years in it cos the risk will never be zero.

The cancer assessments and depression issues are very true and absolutely should be a focus and discussed in addition to Covid. But the problem with Covid is that it got so wide spread that it affects the ability of the HSE/ NHS to deal with other illnesses. When it's allowed to run freely the health services can't cope and are over run. When the health services are over run more people die, not just from Covid but from all illnesses.
I do believe there should be more focus on elective surgery and plans to deal with Cancer assessments, etc. But I think they are doing what they are capable of. The easiest way to take pressure of the health trusts is to reduce Covid. Reducing Covid means we have to deal with restrictions. And I think this is what the medical professionals are trying to get across. Once numbers drop there is an automatic reaction by the public to get restrictions lifted (Understandably). I suppose these people are trying to provide that balance so we don't lose the run of ourself again.

The public/media were hammering NPHET last year wen they suggested we keep the lockdown over xmas and were demanding the country be opened up in December. The government backed down and we ended up in the current situation. It's easy to criticise NPHET/government for what they've done but alot of people don't seem to realise it was our own actions that got us into this mess.

One positive during the covid restrictions is the likes of the vintners and restaurant lobby groups haven't been on the news regularly demanding they be allowed open up. Listening to some of their claims that they know how to deal with covid you would think they know more than the medical professionals
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 11, 2021, 01:23:29 PM
Yep, we've heard nothing (TG) from the VFI for nearly 2 months now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 01:38:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 11, 2021, 12:27:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 12:10:44 PM
You do know there is more medical advice than just Nephet dont you? Using stupid emojis and smart arsed short replies doesnt make you clever lad. Lets hear the data on the people who are getting serious cancer diagnoses as a result of cancelled cancelled tests, lets hear about the suicide number increases, lets hear the stats on childhood depression and anxiety. Lets hear about all the job losses and how you will be paying back your covid payment once you do get a job.

Here we have the cancer people again. The only way we can improve treatment for people with other health conditions is to reduce the pressure on the health service, which means reducing Covid. Anyone who claims that easing restrictions will help cancer patients is talking dangerous nonsense. Depression etc is a bit more complicated, but the feeling that you may get a disease and that other people do not care if they give it you is going to depress a lot of people, whatever the government does.

The cancer people??? WTF is that supposed to mean. My point is where is the people on the news giving free reign like McConkey that will talk about the other side  - depressions, suicide, anxiety, cancer treatment. Where is the balance. And dont tell me NPHET provide the balance, they dont, thats not their job. Its the job of government. But when the let Tony Holohan run the show t here will be no balance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 01:41:56 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 11, 2021, 12:46:12 PM
+1.
In the 26 Taoiseach gave us "leadership" and we started "living" in December.
Result...as many if not more cases in January than March to December 2020 inclusive.

I was able to bring my kids to football training for months before December but now I cannot. They were able to go to school too. Its not just as simple as that. December was people doing what people do at Christmas and in some cases acting hugely irresponsibly. If government are to blame for something it is the lack of policing of place, like for example the Broadhaven Hotel in Belmullet, that allowed a ST Stephens night party to go on. Where were the cops, where  is the huge fine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 11, 2021, 01:45:24 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 01:38:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 11, 2021, 12:27:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 12:10:44 PM
You do know there is more medical advice than just Nephet dont you? Using stupid emojis and smart arsed short replies doesnt make you clever lad. Lets hear the data on the people who are getting serious cancer diagnoses as a result of cancelled cancelled tests, lets hear about the suicide number increases, lets hear the stats on childhood depression and anxiety. Lets hear about all the job losses and how you will be paying back your covid payment once you do get a job.

Here we have the cancer people again. The only way we can improve treatment for people with other health conditions is to reduce the pressure on the health service, which means reducing Covid. Anyone who claims that easing restrictions will help cancer patients is talking dangerous nonsense. Depression etc is a bit more complicated, but the feeling that you may get a disease and that other people do not care if they give it you is going to depress a lot of people, whatever the government does.

The cancer people??? WTF is that supposed to mean. My point is where is the people on the news giving free reign like McConkey that will talk about the other side  - depressions, suicide, anxiety, cancer treatment. Where is the balance. And dont tell me NPHET provide the balance, they dont, thats not their job. Its the job of government. But when the let Tony Holohan run the show t here will be no balance.
Please answer the following:

How will lifting restrictions help cancer treatment?

How will lifting restrictions help depression?

Because if we lift restrictions, Covid will just spread rampantly again, many more people will die needlessly, and we'll just have to shut down again within a few weeks

That means WORSE cancer services and MORE depression

You do understand this?

Or do you simply refuse to understand it?

It's really basic stuff
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 01:51:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 11, 2021, 01:45:24 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 01:38:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 11, 2021, 12:27:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 12:10:44 PM
You do know there is more medical advice than just Nephet dont you? Using stupid emojis and smart arsed short replies doesnt make you clever lad. Lets hear the data on the people who are getting serious cancer diagnoses as a result of cancelled cancelled tests, lets hear about the suicide number increases, lets hear the stats on childhood depression and anxiety. Lets hear about all the job losses and how you will be paying back your covid payment once you do get a job.

Here we have the cancer people again. The only way we can improve treatment for people with other health conditions is to reduce the pressure on the health service, which means reducing Covid. Anyone who claims that easing restrictions will help cancer patients is talking dangerous nonsense. Depression etc is a bit more complicated, but the feeling that you may get a disease and that other people do not care if they give it you is going to depress a lot of people, whatever the government does.

The cancer people??? WTF is that supposed to mean. My point is where is the people on the news giving free reign like McConkey that will talk about the other side  - depressions, suicide, anxiety, cancer treatment. Where is the balance. And dont tell me NPHET provide the balance, they dont, thats not their job. Its the job of government. But when the let Tony Holohan run the show t here will be no balance.
Please answer the following:

How will lifting restrictions help cancer treatment?

How will lifting restrictions help depression?

Because if we lift restrictions, Covid will just spread rampantly again, many more people will die needlessly, and we'll just have to shut down again within a few weeks

That means WORSE cancer services and MORE depression

You do understand this?

Or do you simply refuse to understand it?

It's really basic stuff

Why do breast cancer screenings fall off a cliff during lockdowns? Cancer has a far higher fatality rate than Covid so why is Covid being prioritised?

Is it fair that these women pay the price?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 01:59:22 PM
India have thrown their hat at it and the daily infection rates have came tumbling down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 11, 2021, 02:05:51 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 01:38:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 11, 2021, 12:27:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 12:10:44 PM
You do know there is more medical advice than just Nephet dont you? Using stupid emojis and smart arsed short replies doesnt make you clever lad. Lets hear the data on the people who are getting serious cancer diagnoses as a result of cancelled cancelled tests, lets hear about the suicide number increases, lets hear the stats on childhood depression and anxiety. Lets hear about all the job losses and how you will be paying back your covid payment once you do get a job.

Here we have the cancer people again. The only way we can improve treatment for people with other health conditions is to reduce the pressure on the health service, which means reducing Covid. Anyone who claims that easing restrictions will help cancer patients is talking dangerous nonsense. Depression etc is a bit more complicated, but the feeling that you may get a disease and that other people do not care if they give it you is going to depress a lot of people, whatever the government does.

The cancer people??? WTF is that supposed to mean. My point is where is the people on the news giving free reign like McConkey that will talk about the other side  - depressions, suicide, anxiety, cancer treatment. Where is the balance. And dont tell me NPHET provide the balance, they dont, thats not their job. Its the job of government. But when the let Tony Holohan run the show t here will be no balance.

Don't pretend that you do not understand. When these people propose reducing Covid then they are put forward a strategy for improving the chances of people with all illnesses, that is the point which many people chose to ignore with their false claims that lockdowns affect cancer health.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 11, 2021, 01:45:24 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 01:38:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 11, 2021, 12:27:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 12:10:44 PM
You do know there is more medical advice than just Nephet dont you? Using stupid emojis and smart arsed short replies doesnt make you clever lad. Lets hear the data on the people who are getting serious cancer diagnoses as a result of cancelled cancelled tests, lets hear about the suicide number increases, lets hear the stats on childhood depression and anxiety. Lets hear about all the job losses and how you will be paying back your covid payment once you do get a job.

Here we have the cancer people again. The only way we can improve treatment for people with other health conditions is to reduce the pressure on the health service, which means reducing Covid. Anyone who claims that easing restrictions will help cancer patients is talking dangerous nonsense. Depression etc is a bit more complicated, but the feeling that you may get a disease and that other people do not care if they give it you is going to depress a lot of people, whatever the government does.

The cancer people??? WTF is that supposed to mean. My point is where is the people on the news giving free reign like McConkey that will talk about the other side  - depressions, suicide, anxiety, cancer treatment. Where is the balance. And dont tell me NPHET provide the balance, they dont, thats not their job. Its the job of government. But when the let Tony Holohan run the show t here will be no balance.
Please answer the following:

How will lifting restrictions help cancer treatment?

How will lifting restrictions help depression?

Because if we lift restrictions, Covid will just spread rampantly again, many more people will die needlessly, and we'll just have to shut down again within a few weeks

That means WORSE cancer services and MORE depression

You do understand this?

Or do you simply refuse to understand it?

It's really basic stuff

I could point out I never said any of that stuff you just wrote but I did ask you not to engage with me Sid and would appreciate if you would do that. Thanks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on February 11, 2021, 03:04:26 PM
Cases in the north today are the lowest number since 28th September.  Surely if they get hospital numbers down to c300 they will open the schools on the 8th March, a full 3 weeks away from next Monday ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 11, 2021, 03:07:23 PM
Schools will be the first thing to open. It's probably the only thing the Govts have been consistent on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 11, 2021, 03:11:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 11, 2021, 01:45:24 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 01:38:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 11, 2021, 12:27:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 12:10:44 PM
You do know there is more medical advice than just Nephet dont you? Using stupid emojis and smart arsed short replies doesnt make you clever lad. Lets hear the data on the people who are getting serious cancer diagnoses as a result of cancelled cancelled tests, lets hear about the suicide number increases, lets hear the stats on childhood depression and anxiety. Lets hear about all the job losses and how you will be paying back your covid payment once you do get a job.

Here we have the cancer people again. The only way we can improve treatment for people with other health conditions is to reduce the pressure on the health service, which means reducing Covid. Anyone who claims that easing restrictions will help cancer patients is talking dangerous nonsense. Depression etc is a bit more complicated, but the feeling that you may get a disease and that other people do not care if they give it you is going to depress a lot of people, whatever the government does.

The cancer people??? WTF is that supposed to mean. My point is where is the people on the news giving free reign like McConkey that will talk about the other side  - depressions, suicide, anxiety, cancer treatment. Where is the balance. And dont tell me NPHET provide the balance, they dont, thats not their job. Its the job of government. But when the let Tony Holohan run the show t here will be no balance.
Please answer the following:

How will lifting restrictions help cancer treatment?

How will lifting restrictions help depression?

Because if we lift restrictions, Covid will just spread rampantly again, many more people will die needlessly, and we'll just have to shut down again within a few weeks

That means WORSE cancer services and MORE depression

You do understand this?

Or do you simply refuse to understand it?

It's really basic stuff

I could point out I never said any of that stuff you just wrote but I did ask you not to engage with me Sid and would appreciate if you would do that. Thanks.
I've asked you a couple of really simple questions there

Why won't you answer?

How will MORE Covid help cancer treatment?

How will MORE Covid help depression?

How will MORE Covid help the functioning of society?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 11, 2021, 03:31:33 PM
3 excellent pertinent questions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 03:40:50 PM
Any of you pro lockdown zealots want to explain what is happening in India for us?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 04:13:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 11, 2021, 03:31:33 PM
3 excellent pertinent questions.

You think so? So I will ask you 3 excellent pertinent questions so

How will more Covid make roscommon win same
How will more Covid make solve climate change
How will more Covid make Ireland win the 6 nations.

Now I know you never said any of those things Rossfan, but they are really pertinent questions and I demand you answer them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 04:23:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 04:13:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 11, 2021, 03:31:33 PM
3 excellent pertinent questions.

You think so? So I will ask you 3 excellent pertinent questions so

How will more Covid make roscommon win same
How will more Covid make solve climate change
How will more Covid make Ireland win the 6 nations.

Now I know you never said any of those things Rossfan, but they are really pertinent questions and I demand you answer them.

"Lets hear the data on the people who are getting serious cancer diagnoses as a result of cancelled cancelled tests, lets hear about the suicide number increases, lets hear the stats on childhood depression and anxiety."

How do you think we improve cancer diagnosis during covid? The tests are being cancelled as the medical staff struggle to deal with overcrowding due to covid patients. For these tests to go ahead you would have to tell some people there isn't a hospital bed available for them. That couls be a death sentence for some people so do you think that is an acceptable price to pay? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 11, 2021, 04:24:36 PM
Realised that last few days been particularly tough.

I actually find it better (in the loosest possible terms in this shit storm) when there is some certainty I.e. we know the rules and the levels up to a certain point.

Then once the end of that gets closer and the speculation/demands/hope/fear etc from various parties gets louder, it gets harder to bare. You want things lifted, you want normality and then in other hand you want it safer and certainty that it's the end soon. Lot of conflict. We all want out.

Hard to know what to call it but it's perhaps the anxiety of not knowing what's next and conflict arising that never sits easy with me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 04:33:56 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 04:23:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 11, 2021, 04:13:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 11, 2021, 03:31:33 PM
3 excellent pertinent questions.

You think so? So I will ask you 3 excellent pertinent questions so

How will more Covid make roscommon win same
How will more Covid make solve climate change
How will more Covid make Ireland win the 6 nations.

Now I know you never said any of those things Rossfan, but they are really pertinent questions and I demand you answer them.

"Lets hear the data on the people who are getting serious cancer diagnoses as a result of cancelled cancelled tests, lets hear about the suicide number increases, lets hear the stats on childhood depression and anxiety."

How do you think we improve cancer diagnosis during covid? The tests are being cancelled as the medical staff struggle to deal with overcrowding due to covid patients. For these tests to go ahead you would have to tell some people there isn't a hospital bed available for them. That couls be a death sentence for some people so do you think that is an acceptable price to pay?

By keeping cancer screening services open and not reducing cancer screening services, there is no justifiable reason to shut down cancer screening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 04:37:04 PM
None of the lockdown experts care to explain exactly what is happening in India?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 11, 2021, 04:50:37 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 11, 2021, 04:41:44 PM
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2021/02/11/news/-kids-are-crumbling-and-nobody-seems-to-care---benny-coulter-2217261/

i dont know anyone enjoying lockdown... more so this one then others... what is your solution? given we have seen what happens everytime we try and live with covid, we end up with hospitals overrun which in turn leads to another lockdown... we all hope vaccine is the game changer..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 05:06:10 PM
About 20% of the O6 population now have the 1st dose of the vaccine.

Should surely cover the vast bulk of the at risk category, should be no reason why things should not be well opened up by mid April.

Unless of course the vaccine is a complete dud which is entirely possible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 11, 2021, 05:10:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 05:06:10 PM
About 20% of the O6 population now have the 1st dose of the vaccine.

Should surely cover the vast bulk of the at risk category, should be no reason why things should not be well opened up by mid April.

Unless of course the vaccine is a complete dud which is entirely possible.

I think they are afraid to say this Angelo, incase it doesn't happen....in which case, political suicide.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2021, 06:02:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 04:37:04 PM
None of the lockdown experts care to explain exactly what is happening in India?

England are playing in Cricket there
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 06:16:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2021, 06:02:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 04:37:04 PM
None of the lockdown experts care to explain exactly what is happening in India?

England are playing in Cricket there
India has vaccinated over 7m people and they are looking to speed up the process. It can't be a coincidence that Covid cases are falling as the number of people vaccinated increases
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2021, 06:21:20 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 06:16:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2021, 06:02:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 04:37:04 PM
None of the lockdown experts care to explain exactly what is happening in India?

England are playing in Cricket there
India has vaccinated over 7m people and they are looking to speed up the process. It can't be a coincidence that Covid cases are falling as the number of people vaccinated increases

With a population of 1.4 billion, they've a bit to go
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 06:27:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2021, 06:21:20 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 06:16:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2021, 06:02:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 04:37:04 PM
None of the lockdown experts care to explain exactly what is happening in India?

England are playing in Cricket there
India has vaccinated over 7m people and they are looking to speed up the process. It can't be a coincidence that Covid cases are falling as the number of people vaccinated increases

With a population of 1.4 billion, they've a bit to go

That's true, but they've implemented campaign to encourage as many people in the country as possible to get vaccinated and the government is putting pressure on the individual states to speed up vaccinations.

I bet the big pharma companies love India for all the vaccines they're buying.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 06:34:20 PM
A big percentage in India are refusing to get the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 06:49:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 06:34:20 PM
A big percentage in India are refusing to get the vaccine.

The whole point of the information campaign is to encourage people to get the vaccine. You'll have a certain percentage in every country who will refuse to get the vaccine. Some for valid reasons (allergies for example) others for the most idiotic reasons

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-55179300
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on February 11, 2021, 07:04:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 05:06:10 PM
About 20% of the O6 population now have the 1st dose of the vaccine.

Should surely cover the vast bulk of the at risk category, should be no reason why things should not be well opened up by mid April.

Unless of course the vaccine is a complete dud which is entirely possible.

What exactly are you basing this on?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 07:53:00 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 11, 2021, 07:04:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 05:06:10 PM
About 20% of the O6 population now have the 1st dose of the vaccine.

Should surely cover the vast bulk of the at risk category, should be no reason why things should not be well opened up by mid April.

Unless of course the vaccine is a complete dud which is entirely possible.

What exactly are you basing this on?

Over 60% of deaths are over 80, think it's around 90% of deaths are over 60. So once the at risk groupings are vaccinated what are we waiting for?

That's of course depends on whether the vaccine is a dud or not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 07:54:05 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 06:16:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2021, 06:02:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 04:37:04 PM
None of the lockdown experts care to explain exactly what is happening in India?

England are playing in Cricket there
India has vaccinated over 7m people and they are looking to speed up the process. It can't be a coincidence that Covid cases are falling as the number of people vaccinated increases

In fact it is. Proportionately hardly anyone has been vaccinated in India and cases are falling off a cliff.

It's amazing the twisted logic of the pro lockdowners.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2021, 09:15:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 07:54:05 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 06:16:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2021, 06:02:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 04:37:04 PM
None of the lockdown experts care to explain exactly what is happening in India?

England are playing in Cricket there
India has vaccinated over 7m people and they are looking to speed up the process. It can't be a coincidence that Covid cases are falling as the number of people vaccinated increases

In fact it is. Proportionately hardly anyone has been vaccinated in India and cases are falling off a cliff.

It's amazing the twisted logic of the pro lockdowners.

Can you name a pro lockdowner or any posters that want lockdowns, and show a post he wants it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on February 11, 2021, 09:43:40 PM
An interesting read about India 🇮🇳

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/02/01/962821038/the-mystery-of-indias-plummeting-covid-19-cases?t=1612523089988&t=1613079337897
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 09:47:31 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 06:49:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 06:34:20 PM
A big percentage in India are refusing to get the vaccine.

The whole point of the information campaign is to encourage people to get the vaccine. You'll have a certain percentage in every country who will refuse to get the vaccine. Some for valid reasons (allergies for example) others for the most idiotic reasons

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-55179300

...and some because it won't work, the long term side affects are unknown, they don't trust pharmaceuticals/governments/media, or they aren't in the 'at risk group so why would they get it'?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 11, 2021, 10:02:44 PM
Seasonal
That's what
I see Celebrity McBride on the Nolan show tomorrow
Why is he on radio every other day?
Advise the government
Give a press conference
But why are we rolling him over the airwaves 24/7
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 11, 2021, 10:11:10 PM
for almost a year, northern and southern hemisphere have had cases. Seasonal??? did you not say it was seasonal then roll back that claim and now its seasonal again last few days...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2021, 10:13:11 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 11, 2021, 10:02:44 PM
Seasonal
That's what
I see Celebrity McBride on the Nolan show tomorrow
Why is he on radio every other day?
Advise the government
Give a press conference
But why are we rolling him over the airwaves 24/7

Seasonal? December and January their coolest months (their winter) so it's only bad in the summer?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 09:47:31 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 06:49:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 06:34:20 PM
A big percentage in India are refusing to get the vaccine.

The whole point of the information campaign is to encourage people to get the vaccine. You'll have a certain percentage in every country who will refuse to get the vaccine. Some for valid reasons (allergies for example) others for the most idiotic reasons

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-55179300

...and some because it won't work, the long term side affects are unknown, they don't trust pharmaceuticals/governments/media, or they aren't in the 'at risk group so why would they get it'?

Like I said, strange reasons. There are conspiracy nuts all over the world. There's no chance the take  up of any vaccine will ever be 100%  There are people who believe vaccines like MMR and the flu jab that have shown to work (please don't mention the flu a few years that was an exception) are dangerous and refuse to get them.

All you can do is try and educate the public that getting the vaccine is the right and safe thing to do
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 10:38:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 09:47:31 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 06:49:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 06:34:20 PM
A big percentage in India are refusing to get the vaccine.

The whole point of the information campaign is to encourage people to get the vaccine. You'll have a certain percentage in every country who will refuse to get the vaccine. Some for valid reasons (allergies for example) others for the most idiotic reasons

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-55179300

...and some because it won't work, the long term side affects are unknown, they don't trust pharmaceuticals/governments/media, or they aren't in the 'at risk group so why would they get it'?

Like I said, strange reasons. There are conspiracy nuts all over the world. There's no chance the take  up of any vaccine will ever be 100%  There are people who believe vaccines like MMR and the flu jab that have shown to work (please don't mention the flu a few years that was an exception) are dangerous and refuse to get them.

All you can do is try and educate the public that getting the vaccine is the right and safe thing to do

They're only strange reasons to you.

The reasons above aren't 'conspiracy theories'. We don't know the long term side effects. Nor do the pharmaceuticals, or if they do they're not telling us (and let's be honest, why would they?).

Many people have had covid and barely affected them. So they might look at that and say, well if that's the worst it does to me, why would I get the jab? That's totally understandable. Or maybe that's a 'conspiracy theory' too?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 10:40:17 PM
So the pro lockdowners cannot explain India.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2021, 10:43:22 PM
Getting the jab helps others, it helps reduce hospital admissions. Surely that's good?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2021, 10:43:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 11, 2021, 10:40:17 PM
So the pro lockdowners cannot explain India.

Your mate says it's seasonal 😂😂
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 10:50:51 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 10:38:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 09:47:31 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 06:49:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 06:34:20 PM
A big percentage in India are refusing to get the vaccine.

The whole point of the information campaign is to encourage people to get the vaccine. You'll have a certain percentage in every country who will refuse to get the vaccine. Some for valid reasons (allergies for example) others for the most idiotic reasons

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-55179300

...and some because it won't work, the long term side affects are unknown, they don't trust pharmaceuticals/governments/media, or they aren't in the 'at risk group so why would they get it'?

Like I said, strange reasons. There are conspiracy nuts all over the world. There's no chance the take  up of any vaccine will ever be 100%  There are people who believe vaccines like MMR and the flu jab that have shown to work (please don't mention the flu a few years that was an exception) are dangerous and refuse to get them.

All you can do is try and educate the public that getting the vaccine is the right and safe thing to do

They're only strange reasons to you.

The reasons above aren't 'conspiracy theories'. We don't know the long term side effects. Nor do the pharmaceuticals, or if they do they're not telling us (and let's be honest, why would they?).

Many people have had covid and barely affected them. So they might look at that and say, well if that's the worst it does to me, why would I get the jab? That's totally understandable. Or maybe that's a 'conspiracy theory' too?
Not trusting pharmaceutical companies/governments they're all lying is not normal to me. Would someone who doesn't trust the vaccine/pharma companies take a paracetamol tablet? Where's the line?

If it was just the media you didn't trust, then fair enough.

You are right that being young and thinking you're invincible isn't a conspiracy theory, it's just life. That's why I made the point that it's important governments get the message across that getting the vaccine is important and the right thing to do
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 11:05:46 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 10:50:51 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 10:38:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 09:47:31 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 06:49:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 06:34:20 PM
A big percentage in India are refusing to get the vaccine.

The whole point of the information campaign is to encourage people to get the vaccine. You'll have a certain percentage in every country who will refuse to get the vaccine. Some for valid reasons (allergies for example) others for the most idiotic reasons

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-55179300

...and some because it won't work, the long term side affects are unknown, they don't trust pharmaceuticals/governments/media, or they aren't in the 'at risk group so why would they get it'?

Like I said, strange reasons. There are conspiracy nuts all over the world. There's no chance the take  up of any vaccine will ever be 100%  There are people who believe vaccines like MMR and the flu jab that have shown to work (please don't mention the flu a few years that was an exception) are dangerous and refuse to get them.

All you can do is try and educate the public that getting the vaccine is the right and safe thing to do

They're only strange reasons to you.

The reasons above aren't 'conspiracy theories'. We don't know the long term side effects. Nor do the pharmaceuticals, or if they do they're not telling us (and let's be honest, why would they?).

Many people have had covid and barely affected them. So they might look at that and say, well if that's the worst it does to me, why would I get the jab? That's totally understandable. Or maybe that's a 'conspiracy theory' too?
Not trusting pharmaceutical companies/governments they're all lying is not normal to me. Would someone who doesn't trust the vaccine/pharma companies take a paracetamol tablet? Where's the line?

If it was just the media you didn't trust, then fair enough.

You are right that being young and thinking you're invincible isn't a conspiracy theory, it's just life. That's why I made the point that it's important governments get the message across that getting the vaccine is important and the right thing to do

The Dalai Lama and the Pope could tell people to get the vaccine. Doesn't mean everyone will get it though. And it also doesn't mean it's the 'right thing to do'.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 11:32:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 11:05:46 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 10:50:51 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 10:38:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 09:47:31 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 06:49:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 06:34:20 PM
A big percentage in India are refusing to get the vaccine.

The whole point of the information campaign is to encourage people to get the vaccine. You'll have a certain percentage in every country who will refuse to get the vaccine. Some for valid reasons (allergies for example) others for the most idiotic reasons

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-55179300

...and some because it won't work, the long term side affects are unknown, they don't trust pharmaceuticals/governments/media, or they aren't in the 'at risk group so why would they get it'?

Like I said, strange reasons. There are conspiracy nuts all over the world. There's no chance the take  up of any vaccine will ever be 100%  There are people who believe vaccines like MMR and the flu jab that have shown to work (please don't mention the flu a few years that was an exception) are dangerous and refuse to get them.

All you can do is try and educate the public that getting the vaccine is the right and safe thing to do

They're only strange reasons to you.

The reasons above aren't 'conspiracy theories'. We don't know the long term side effects. Nor do the pharmaceuticals, or if they do they're not telling us (and let's be honest, why would they?).

Many people have had covid and barely affected them. So they might look at that and say, well if that's the worst it does to me, why would I get the jab? That's totally understandable. Or maybe that's a 'conspiracy theory' too?
Not trusting pharmaceutical companies/governments they're all lying is not normal to me. Would someone who doesn't trust the vaccine/pharma companies take a paracetamol tablet? Where's the line?

If it was just the media you didn't trust, then fair enough.

You are right that being young and thinking you're invincible isn't a conspiracy theory, it's just life. That's why I made the point that it's important governments get the message across that getting the vaccine is important and the right thing to do

The Dalai Lama and the Pope could tell people to get the vaccine. Doesn't mean everyone will get it though. And it also doesn't mean it's the 'right thing to do'.

If I want medical advice or was asked who to approach I would say look at what the medical experts suggest. If I had a question about religion I'd look at what the Pope might have said. If you're looking to the Dalai Lama for advice on what to do for Covid good for you, but there are better and with respect more qualified people, like the medical experts dealing with Covid and advising the government

Have you seen any qualified and respected medical expert come out and and say people shouldn't get the Covid vaccine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 11:58:32 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 11:32:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 11:05:46 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 10:50:51 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 10:38:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 09:47:31 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 06:49:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 06:34:20 PM
A big percentage in India are refusing to get the vaccine.

The whole point of the information campaign is to encourage people to get the vaccine. You'll have a certain percentage in every country who will refuse to get the vaccine. Some for valid reasons (allergies for example) others for the most idiotic reasons

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-55179300

...and some because it won't work, the long term side affects are unknown, they don't trust pharmaceuticals/governments/media, or they aren't in the 'at risk group so why would they get it'?

Like I said, strange reasons. There are conspiracy nuts all over the world. There's no chance the take  up of any vaccine will ever be 100%  There are people who believe vaccines like MMR and the flu jab that have shown to work (please don't mention the flu a few years that was an exception) are dangerous and refuse to get them.

All you can do is try and educate the public that getting the vaccine is the right and safe thing to do

They're only strange reasons to you.

The reasons above aren't 'conspiracy theories'. We don't know the long term side effects. Nor do the pharmaceuticals, or if they do they're not telling us (and let's be honest, why would they?).

Many people have had covid and barely affected them. So they might look at that and say, well if that's the worst it does to me, why would I get the jab? That's totally understandable. Or maybe that's a 'conspiracy theory' too?
Not trusting pharmaceutical companies/governments they're all lying is not normal to me. Would someone who doesn't trust the vaccine/pharma companies take a paracetamol tablet? Where's the line?

If it was just the media you didn't trust, then fair enough.

You are right that being young and thinking you're invincible isn't a conspiracy theory, it's just life. That's why I made the point that it's important governments get the message across that getting the vaccine is important and the right thing to do

The Dalai Lama and the Pope could tell people to get the vaccine. Doesn't mean everyone will get it though. And it also doesn't mean it's the 'right thing to do'.

If I want medical advice or was asked who to approach I would say look at what the medical experts suggest. If I had a question about religion I'd look at what the Pope might have said. If you're looking to the Dalai Lama for advice on what to do for Covid good for you, but there are better and with respect more qualified people, like the medical experts dealing with Covid and advising the government

Have you seen any qualified and respected medical expert come out and and say people shouldn't get the Covid vaccine?

Well, the Dublin government/EU wheeled out Brian O'Driscoll and a host of other 'experts' for the second go at the Lisbon Treaty. And that seemed to work. So why not the Pope on the Covid jab?

And of course you're not going to see medical people speak out against the jab. Because it'll be, "see that degree on your surgery wall? We'll you won't be needing that anymore, boyo!"... Or words to that effect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 12, 2021, 12:34:58 AM
There will be reasons to get vaccinated. The CDC in the US have said that if you have had the two jabs, plus two weeks, then you are not required to isolate if you are a close contact, unless you show symptoms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 12, 2021, 07:00:03 AM
What is the point of getting the jab if you are young?
I was all for getting the jab but now won't
What we heard at the start was the jab is the way out of this
Now it seemingly is not
Celebrity McBride being one of those
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 12, 2021, 07:35:11 AM
Melbourne go into a 5 day hard lockdown
Everything closed
Surely we need a plan b at this stage?
We could get down to single figure and then open up and it could get to 1000 within 2 weeks
Likely it wouldn't happen but is possible
Really need a plan b here to live with it
Brocade it seems vaccines now isn't the way out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 07:50:24 AM
What season is Melbourne in at the minute?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 12, 2021, 07:52:34 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 12, 2021, 07:35:11 AM
Melbourne go into a 5 day hard lockdown
Everything closed
Surely we need a plan b at this stage?
We could get down to single figure and then open up and it could get to 1000 within 2 weeks
Likely it wouldn't happen but is possible
Really need a plan b here to live with it
Brocade it seems vaccines now isn't the way out
Melbourne are totally overreacting. Didn't they recently lockdown for a week over one person (working in a quarantine hotel ffs) catching covid? No way to live. Once the vulnerable get the jab we need to reopen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 12, 2021, 08:11:38 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 11:58:32 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 11:32:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 11:05:46 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 10:50:51 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 10:38:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 10:18:48 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 09:47:31 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 11, 2021, 06:49:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 11, 2021, 06:34:20 PM
A big percentage in India are refusing to get the vaccine.

The whole point of the information campaign is to encourage people to get the vaccine. You'll have a certain percentage in every country who will refuse to get the vaccine. Some for valid reasons (allergies for example) others for the most idiotic reasons

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-55179300

...and some because it won't work, the long term side affects are unknown, they don't trust pharmaceuticals/governments/media, or they aren't in the 'at risk group so why would they get it'?

Like I said, strange reasons. There are conspiracy nuts all over the world. There's no chance the take  up of any vaccine will ever be 100%  There are people who believe vaccines like MMR and the flu jab that have shown to work (please don't mention the flu a few years that was an exception) are dangerous and refuse to get them.

All you can do is try and educate the public that getting the vaccine is the right and safe thing to do

They're only strange reasons to you.

The reasons above aren't 'conspiracy theories'. We don't know the long term side effects. Nor do the pharmaceuticals, or if they do they're not telling us (and let's be honest, why would they?).

Many people have had covid and barely affected them. So they might look at that and say, well if that's the worst it does to me, why would I get the jab? That's totally understandable. Or maybe that's a 'conspiracy theory' too?
Not trusting pharmaceutical companies/governments they're all lying is not normal to me. Would someone who doesn't trust the vaccine/pharma companies take a paracetamol tablet? Where's the line?

If it was just the media you didn't trust, then fair enough.

You are right that being young and thinking you're invincible isn't a conspiracy theory, it's just life. That's why I made the point that it's important governments get the message across that getting the vaccine is important and the right thing to do

The Dalai Lama and the Pope could tell people to get the vaccine. Doesn't mean everyone will get it though. And it also doesn't mean it's the 'right thing to do'.

If I want medical advice or was asked who to approach I would say look at what the medical experts suggest. If I had a question about religion I'd look at what the Pope might have said. If you're looking to the Dalai Lama for advice on what to do for Covid good for you, but there are better and with respect more qualified people, like the medical experts dealing with Covid and advising the government

Have you seen any qualified and respected medical expert come out and and say people shouldn't get the Covid vaccine?

Well, the Dublin government/EU wheeled out Brian O'Driscoll and a host of other 'experts' for the second go at the Lisbon Treaty. And that seemed to work. So why not the Pope on the Covid jab?

And of course you're not going to see medical people speak out against the jab. Because it'll be, "see that degree on your surgery wall? We'll you won't be needing that anymore, boyo!"... Or words to that effect.

That's gas. Medical experts are now afraid to speak out. They couldn't possibly all think a vaccine for a virus (that doesn't seem to be seasonal) and has killed over a million people all over the world is a good thing. There were questions raised by the experts in relation to the Astra Zenica vaccine when they first released their vaccine trial results so clearly not everyone is afraid to speak out

I am curious though, do you think it was big pharma, world governments or both that has warned medical professionals to keep quiet?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 12, 2021, 09:19:36 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 12, 2021, 07:35:11 AM
Melbourne go into a 5 day hard lockdown
And they're absolutely right to do so

It seems you think they should just let Covid spread

"The Titanic is unsinkable, she will obliterate this iceberg"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 12, 2021, 09:25:17 AM
The Kent variant now has its own mutation which has developed the same characteristics as the South African variant

This is because of wide scale community spread due to the proven failed ideology of "living with the virus"

Anybody who discounts the serious possibility of mutants rendering all the current vaccines obsolete is not living in the real world

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/feb/10/mutated-kent-covid-variant-must-be-taken-seriously-warns-uk-scientist
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 09:39:17 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 12, 2021, 07:35:11 AM
Melbourne go into a 5 day hard lockdown
Everything closed
Surely we need a plan b at this stage?
We could get down to single figure and then open up and it could get to 1000 within 2 weeks
Likely it wouldn't happen but is possible
Really need a plan b here to live with it
Brocade it seems vaccines now isn't the way out

time to start negotiating with the virus maybe. Ask it to be seasonal maybe or to stop further mutations. Wlany suggestions for plan b that lead us back to increasing numbers and hospitals getting overrun. imo if we are patient enough now and continue with vaccine rollout we will be in a much better position but i think patience is key as hard as that isbfor everyone
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 12, 2021, 09:47:28 AM
The ideology of "Living With Covid" would remind you of the Herald of Free Enterprise disaster

Who cares that the bow door is open and the ship is rapidly taking in water, sure sail away there, boss, 'tis grand

Sail away, sail away, sail away, like Enya said

Appropriately enough, this ideology is promoted by self style heralds of free enterprise
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on February 12, 2021, 09:49:34 AM
Yes I agree. We should all follow the new government policy of out waiting the virus, and we should keep the airports open throughout, just so as we can prolong the process. And we should acknowledge our civil duty to return to out wait mode at the government's discretion for the rest of our lives, as and when the virus is brought into the country by travellers.

—-

Covid zero is impossible without both a) isolating Ireland in the short term, and b) an identical worldwide approach in the medium term.

We are being led into fantasy delusions by extraordinary reactive and inept leadership across both islands.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 09:55:49 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 12, 2021, 09:49:34 AM
Yes I agree. We should all follow the new government policy of out waiting the virus, and we should keep the airports open throughout, just so as we can prolong the process. And we should acknowledge our civil duty to return to out wait mode at the government's discretion for the rest of our lives, as and when the virus is brought into the country by travellers.

—-

Covid zero is impossible without both a) isolating Ireland in the short term, and b) an identical worldwide approach in the medium term.

We are being led into fantasy delusions by extraordinary reactive and inept leadership across both islands.

so what is the solution... im not clear from your post.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 10:00:56 AM
The only way out is increased testing, track and trace (though i don't even have the app!) and roll out the vaccines..

Slowly open up, if not just to keep Angelo and Smurphy happy ;)  and try and get hospital admissions lowered.

It will be with us for years no doubt but we'll get on with our lives soon enough... if we get another big drop in cases again this week then the government should start looking at the plan or at least what milestones need to be achieved to start again
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on February 12, 2021, 10:03:03 AM
The proper solution is to lock down and isolate Ireland completely, and keep its borders shut until the rest of the world has stamped it out. No exceptions. Nil.

If that is not feasible, then we already have nearly done enough to open up again. Once the over 70s and high risk groups have been vaccinated, then Covid's potential to kill is minimal to none. Any measures between where we are now, and the complete isolation described above, is little more than chasing a rainbow.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 12, 2021, 10:09:29 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 12, 2021, 10:03:03 AM
The proper solution is to lock down and isolate Ireland completely, and keep its borders shut until the rest of the world has stamped it out. No exceptions. Nil.

If that is not feasible, then we already have nearly done enough to open up again. Once the over 70s and high risk groups have been vaccinated, then Covid's potential to kill is minimal to none. Any measures between where we are now, and the complete isolation described above, is little more than chasing a rainbow.

It's not feasible. It won't happen.

New Zealand option is not an option for us. We have the UK 20 mins away on a plane with no (at the moment) quarantine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 10:20:07 AM
i agree with zero covid but little or no appetite given our perceived closeness to opening up and vaccinations and obvious border issues.

im on the more cautious side i think, i dont believe we are ready to open up for 3 main reasons. 1. increased risk of mutations 2. i think we need the figure very low and not in the community. 3. our history of opening up early imo and its outcomes.

i think we can then (if we get to point 2) put in place better track and trace, better and wider testing with both the 15 min test and 24 hr lab test, we can also test high risk areas like meat plants etc. the extra capacity should be available from lower numbers and reduced testing of hosiptal staff if vaccines are successful. obviously we also need better controls at airports etc too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on February 12, 2021, 10:25:39 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 12, 2021, 10:03:03 AM
The proper solution is to lock down and isolate Ireland completely, and keep its borders shut until the rest of the world has stamped it out. No exceptions. Nil.

If that is not feasible, then we already have nearly done enough to open up again. Once the over 70s and high risk groups have been vaccinated, then Covid's potential to kill is minimal to none. Any measures between where we are now, and the complete isolation described above, is little more than chasing a rainbow.

The problem is the vaccines take 3 weeks in a person's system before they are effective. The rollout has reached the clinically extremely vulnerable. They're being done this week and next I think. Then you have to wait at least 3 weeks after before they are protected.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 12, 2021, 11:09:59 AM
Angela and the "Free Stater Haters" won't like this

https://m.independent.ie/business/irelands-was-the-only-eu-economy-to-grow-last-year-as-multinationals-rode-out-covid-40079090.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:16:30 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 12, 2021, 11:09:59 AM
Angela and the "Free Stater Haters" won't like this

https://m.independent.ie/business/irelands-was-the-only-eu-economy-to-grow-last-year-as-multinationals-rode-out-covid-40079090.html

You don't seem to get it. MNCs get richer and richer while not barely paying any corporation tax.

Meanwhile your youth are burdened with national debt for decades, are being priced out of adequate health care and cannot afford to buy their own house.

The free state is rotten to the core.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:21:04 AM
Would anyone like to tell me while at hell's gates in January, with hospitals at crisis point, Covid rampant and all the rest how we managed to have 179 deaths in Jan 2021 than we had in Jan 2018?

The lockdown extremists and the flu deniers will surely be scratching their head at that one. I can't see any outrage here in Jan and Feb 2018 about the number of lives lost and how we must or should have acted to save those lives. People shrugged their shoulders and accepted it.

The hypocrisy is off the charts. It's easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on February 12, 2021, 11:26:23 AM
Angelo, have you ever heard of married couples dying within days of each from the flu? Have you heard of regular gym-going men in their 50s, with no underlying health conditions, dying from the flu? Have you heard of people lying in hospital having fluid drained out of their lungs after a bout of flu?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 11:40:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:21:04 AM
Would anyone like to tell me while at hell's gates in January, with hospitals at crisis point, Covid rampant and all the rest how we managed to have 179 deaths in Jan 2021 than we had in Jan 2018?

The lockdown extremists and the flu deniers will surely be scratching their head at that one. I can't see any outrage here in Jan and Feb 2018 about the number of lives lost and how we must or should have acted to save those lives. People shrugged their shoulders and accepted it.

The hypocrisy is off the charts. It's easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.

You can never trust your facts as was shown on another thread.

I don't have the figures for January 18 but the NISRA stats show that the number of registered deaths year to date 5/2/2021 was 2,384 compared to an average for the previous 5 years of 1,888. That's a 26% increase. Which is massive when you take into account the fact that lockdown has been in place helping to at least slow the spread. Over 700 covid deaths registered in 2021 so far which explains the large increase before you try to blame it on other factors.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on February 12, 2021, 11:43:30 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 12, 2021, 11:09:59 AM
Angela and the "Free Stater Haters" won't like this

https://m.independent.ie/business/irelands-was-the-only-eu-economy-to-grow-last-year-as-multinationals-rode-out-covid-40079090.html

Slag off Angela all yis like and he deserves plenty im sure but at least hes not turning a pandemic into a north v south issue (ok maybe is i dunno i dont read half his shite)

Anyway my point is thus - Rossfan, youre a classless f*ck
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 12, 2021, 11:49:59 AM
Ah the oul foul language personal abuse when a fact is reported.
Class???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:51:22 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 11:40:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:21:04 AM
Would anyone like to tell me while at hell's gates in January, with hospitals at crisis point, Covid rampant and all the rest how we managed to have 179 deaths in Jan 2021 than we had in Jan 2018?

The lockdown extremists and the flu deniers will surely be scratching their head at that one. I can't see any outrage here in Jan and Feb 2018 about the number of lives lost and how we must or should have acted to save those lives. People shrugged their shoulders and accepted it.

The hypocrisy is off the charts. It's easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.

You can never trust your facts as was shown on another thread.

I don't have the figures for January 18 but the NISRA stats show that the number of registered deaths year to date 5/2/2021 was 2,384 compared to an average for the previous 5 years of 1,888. That's a 26% increase. Which is massive when you take into account the fact that lockdown has been in place helping to at least slow the spread. Over 700 covid deaths registered in 2021 so far which explains the large increase before you try to blame it on other factors.

Here's NISRA figures.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018.
1,922 deaths in Jan 2021

Should we take into account we had a flu jab in 2017/18 or just ignore that?

The vast, vast majority of people who get Covid neither need hopsitalisation or die.

Nobody is saying it's not serious but was the winter flu of 17/18 not serious and why did we not take action to save lives? I can't square off that hypocrisy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:52:31 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 12, 2021, 11:49:59 AM
Ah the oul foul language personal abuse when a fact is reported.
Class???

You seem to run along when you don't like facts yourself.

Any comment to make on your beloved WHO having one of their top men potentially facing genocide charges?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 11:56:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:51:22 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 11:40:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:21:04 AM
Would anyone like to tell me while at hell's gates in January, with hospitals at crisis point, Covid rampant and all the rest how we managed to have 179 deaths in Jan 2021 than we had in Jan 2018?

The lockdown extremists and the flu deniers will surely be scratching their head at that one. I can't see any outrage here in Jan and Feb 2018 about the number of lives lost and how we must or should have acted to save those lives. People shrugged their shoulders and accepted it.

The hypocrisy is off the charts. It's easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.

You can never trust your facts as was shown on another thread.

I don't have the figures for January 18 but the NISRA stats show that the number of registered deaths year to date 5/2/2021 was 2,384 compared to an average for the previous 5 years of 1,888. That's a 26% increase. Which is massive when you take into account the fact that lockdown has been in place helping to at least slow the spread. Over 700 covid deaths registered in 2021 so far which explains the large increase before you try to blame it on other factors.

Here's NISRA figures.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018.
1,922 deaths in Jan 2021

Should we take into account we had a flu jab in 2017/18 or just ignore that?

The vast, vast majority of people who get Covid neither need hopsitalisation or die.

Nobody is saying it's not serious but was the winter flu of 17/18 not serious and why did we not take action to save lives? I can't square off that hypocrisy.

Where are you seeing that? There weekly release only shows 2021 compared to the averages for the last 5 years. And what it says is 1922 deaths (up to 29/1/21) which compares to the 5 year average of 1,550. Even if you take the highest weekly death rate for each week over the 5 years (they might not all come from 2018) the total number for that is 1,810.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:58:11 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 11:56:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:51:22 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 11:40:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:21:04 AM
Would anyone like to tell me while at hell's gates in January, with hospitals at crisis point, Covid rampant and all the rest how we managed to have 179 deaths in Jan 2021 than we had in Jan 2018?

The lockdown extremists and the flu deniers will surely be scratching their head at that one. I can't see any outrage here in Jan and Feb 2018 about the number of lives lost and how we must or should have acted to save those lives. People shrugged their shoulders and accepted it.

The hypocrisy is off the charts. It's easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.

You can never trust your facts as was shown on another thread.

I don't have the figures for January 18 but the NISRA stats show that the number of registered deaths year to date 5/2/2021 was 2,384 compared to an average for the previous 5 years of 1,888. That's a 26% increase. Which is massive when you take into account the fact that lockdown has been in place helping to at least slow the spread. Over 700 covid deaths registered in 2021 so far which explains the large increase before you try to blame it on other factors.

Here's NISRA figures.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018.
1,922 deaths in Jan 2021

Should we take into account we had a flu jab in 2017/18 or just ignore that?

The vast, vast majority of people who get Covid neither need hopsitalisation or die.

Nobody is saying it's not serious but was the winter flu of 17/18 not serious and why did we not take action to save lives? I can't square off that hypocrisy.

Where are you seeing that? There weekly release only shows 2021 compared to the averages for the last 5 years. And what it says is 1922 deaths (up to 29/1/21) which compares to the 5 year average of 1,550. Even if you take the highest weekly death rate for each week over the 5 years (they might not all come from 2018) the total number for that is 1,810.

Sorry.

Thought I attached the link in the last post

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on February 12, 2021, 12:00:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 12, 2021, 11:49:59 AM
Ah the oul foul language personal abuse when a fact is reported.
Class???

Report away. No shiny shites given here. Why you turnin a pandemic into a north south thing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 12:26:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:58:11 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 11:56:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:51:22 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 11:40:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:21:04 AM
Would anyone like to tell me while at hell's gates in January, with hospitals at crisis point, Covid rampant and all the rest how we managed to have 179 deaths in Jan 2021 than we had in Jan 2018?

The lockdown extremists and the flu deniers will surely be scratching their head at that one. I can't see any outrage here in Jan and Feb 2018 about the number of lives lost and how we must or should have acted to save those lives. People shrugged their shoulders and accepted it.

The hypocrisy is off the charts. It's easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.

You can never trust your facts as was shown on another thread.

I don't have the figures for January 18 but the NISRA stats show that the number of registered deaths year to date 5/2/2021 was 2,384 compared to an average for the previous 5 years of 1,888. That's a 26% increase. Which is massive when you take into account the fact that lockdown has been in place helping to at least slow the spread. Over 700 covid deaths registered in 2021 so far which explains the large increase before you try to blame it on other factors.

Here's NISRA figures.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018.
1,922 deaths in Jan 2021

Should we take into account we had a flu jab in 2017/18 or just ignore that?

The vast, vast majority of people who get Covid neither need hopsitalisation or die.

Nobody is saying it's not serious but was the winter flu of 17/18 not serious and why did we not take action to save lives? I can't square off that hypocrisy.

Where are you seeing that? There weekly release only shows 2021 compared to the averages for the last 5 years. And what it says is 1922 deaths (up to 29/1/21) which compares to the 5 year average of 1,550. Even if you take the highest weekly death rate for each week over the 5 years (they might not all come from 2018) the total number for that is 1,810.

Sorry.

Thought I attached the link in the last post

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls

I think there is a timing issue in terms of weeks brought in when you look at that table. They have a lot of other tables showing a week by week comparison of the last 5 years (including maximum deaths each week) which clearly show there has been more deaths in January 2021 compared to 2018. And that is only one month, as pointed out to you before covid is relentess and is causing excess deaths month after month after month.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 01:06:37 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 12:26:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:58:11 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 11:56:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:51:22 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 11:40:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:21:04 AM
Would anyone like to tell me while at hell's gates in January, with hospitals at crisis point, Covid rampant and all the rest how we managed to have 179 deaths in Jan 2021 than we had in Jan 2018?

The lockdown extremists and the flu deniers will surely be scratching their head at that one. I can't see any outrage here in Jan and Feb 2018 about the number of lives lost and how we must or should have acted to save those lives. People shrugged their shoulders and accepted it.

The hypocrisy is off the charts. It's easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.

You can never trust your facts as was shown on another thread.

I don't have the figures for January 18 but the NISRA stats show that the number of registered deaths year to date 5/2/2021 was 2,384 compared to an average for the previous 5 years of 1,888. That's a 26% increase. Which is massive when you take into account the fact that lockdown has been in place helping to at least slow the spread. Over 700 covid deaths registered in 2021 so far which explains the large increase before you try to blame it on other factors.

Here's NISRA figures.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018.
1,922 deaths in Jan 2021

Should we take into account we had a flu jab in 2017/18 or just ignore that?

The vast, vast majority of people who get Covid neither need hopsitalisation or die.

Nobody is saying it's not serious but was the winter flu of 17/18 not serious and why did we not take action to save lives? I can't square off that hypocrisy.

Where are you seeing that? There weekly release only shows 2021 compared to the averages for the last 5 years. And what it says is 1922 deaths (up to 29/1/21) which compares to the 5 year average of 1,550. Even if you take the highest weekly death rate for each week over the 5 years (they might not all come from 2018) the total number for that is 1,810.

Sorry.

Thought I attached the link in the last post

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls

I think there is a timing issue in terms of weeks brought in when you look at that table. They have a lot of other tables showing a week by week comparison of the last 5 years (including maximum deaths each week) which clearly show there has been more deaths in January 2021 compared to 2018. And that is only one month, as pointed out to you before covid is relentess and is causing excess deaths month after month after month.

But none to the same peak as winter flu 17/18 where we just shrugged our shoulders and put it down as a bad one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 12, 2021, 01:12:13 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on February 12, 2021, 12:00:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 12, 2021, 11:49:59 AM
Ah the oul foul language personal abuse when a fact is reported.
Class???

Report away. No shiny shites given here. Why you turnin a pandemic into a north south thing
Never mentioned the North....just a dig at a few posters who love running down "Free State"(sic)
And another report
https://m.independent.ie/business/world/uk-economy-has-worst-year-in-modern-history-40082699.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 01:28:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 01:06:37 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 12:26:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:58:11 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 11:56:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:51:22 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 11:40:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:21:04 AM
Would anyone like to tell me while at hell's gates in January, with hospitals at crisis point, Covid rampant and all the rest how we managed to have 179 deaths in Jan 2021 than we had in Jan 2018?

The lockdown extremists and the flu deniers will surely be scratching their head at that one. I can't see any outrage here in Jan and Feb 2018 about the number of lives lost and how we must or should have acted to save those lives. People shrugged their shoulders and accepted it.

The hypocrisy is off the charts. It's easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.

You can never trust your facts as was shown on another thread.

I don't have the figures for January 18 but the NISRA stats show that the number of registered deaths year to date 5/2/2021 was 2,384 compared to an average for the previous 5 years of 1,888. That's a 26% increase. Which is massive when you take into account the fact that lockdown has been in place helping to at least slow the spread. Over 700 covid deaths registered in 2021 so far which explains the large increase before you try to blame it on other factors.

Here's NISRA figures.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018.
1,922 deaths in Jan 2021

Should we take into account we had a flu jab in 2017/18 or just ignore that?

The vast, vast majority of people who get Covid neither need hopsitalisation or die.

Nobody is saying it's not serious but was the winter flu of 17/18 not serious and why did we not take action to save lives? I can't square off that hypocrisy.

Where are you seeing that? There weekly release only shows 2021 compared to the averages for the last 5 years. And what it says is 1922 deaths (up to 29/1/21) which compares to the 5 year average of 1,550. Even if you take the highest weekly death rate for each week over the 5 years (they might not all come from 2018) the total number for that is 1,810.

Sorry.

Thought I attached the link in the last post

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls

I think there is a timing issue in terms of weeks brought in when you look at that table. They have a lot of other tables showing a week by week comparison of the last 5 years (including maximum deaths each week) which clearly show there has been more deaths in January 2021 compared to 2018. And that is only one month, as pointed out to you before covid is relentess and is causing excess deaths month after month after month.

But none to the same peak as winter flu 17/18 where we just shrugged our shoulders and put it down as a bad one.

Every week in 2021 to date the death rate has been higher than the highest week of the last 5 years. The information is all in the NISRA stats that you are quoting. And that's not taking into account December which was above average as well. So not only have they reached the winter peak of 17/18 they have surpassed it. And that's only one period - this thing has been causing large increases in deaths since last March and that is despite restrictions in place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 01:36:40 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 01:28:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 01:06:37 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 12:26:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:58:11 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 11:56:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:51:22 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 11:40:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:21:04 AM
Would anyone like to tell me while at hell's gates in January, with hospitals at crisis point, Covid rampant and all the rest how we managed to have 179 deaths in Jan 2021 than we had in Jan 2018?

The lockdown extremists and the flu deniers will surely be scratching their head at that one. I can't see any outrage here in Jan and Feb 2018 about the number of lives lost and how we must or should have acted to save those lives. People shrugged their shoulders and accepted it.

The hypocrisy is off the charts. It's easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.

You can never trust your facts as was shown on another thread.

I don't have the figures for January 18 but the NISRA stats show that the number of registered deaths year to date 5/2/2021 was 2,384 compared to an average for the previous 5 years of 1,888. That's a 26% increase. Which is massive when you take into account the fact that lockdown has been in place helping to at least slow the spread. Over 700 covid deaths registered in 2021 so far which explains the large increase before you try to blame it on other factors.

Here's NISRA figures.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018.
1,922 deaths in Jan 2021

Should we take into account we had a flu jab in 2017/18 or just ignore that?

The vast, vast majority of people who get Covid neither need hopsitalisation or die.

Nobody is saying it's not serious but was the winter flu of 17/18 not serious and why did we not take action to save lives? I can't square off that hypocrisy.

Where are you seeing that? There weekly release only shows 2021 compared to the averages for the last 5 years. And what it says is 1922 deaths (up to 29/1/21) which compares to the 5 year average of 1,550. Even if you take the highest weekly death rate for each week over the 5 years (they might not all come from 2018) the total number for that is 1,810.

Sorry.

Thought I attached the link in the last post

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls

I think there is a timing issue in terms of weeks brought in when you look at that table. They have a lot of other tables showing a week by week comparison of the last 5 years (including maximum deaths each week) which clearly show there has been more deaths in January 2021 compared to 2018. And that is only one month, as pointed out to you before covid is relentess and is causing excess deaths month after month after month.

But none to the same peak as winter flu 17/18 where we just shrugged our shoulders and put it down as a bad one.

Every week in 2021 to date the death rate has been higher than the highest week of the last 5 years. The information is all in the NISRA stats that you are quoting. And that's not taking into account December which was above average as well. So not only have they reached the winter peak of 17/18 they have surpassed it. And that's only one period - this thing has been causing large increases in deaths since last March and that is despite restrictions in place.

But again, never the peak of winter flu in Jan 18 and that was vaccines being administered in advance.

And what was our reaction to that? We didn't bat an eyelid.

Nobody is denying Covid but the fearmongering around it needs to stop.

Restrictions in place or whatever - what's the fatality of this virus?

In u40s its killed hanful of people in around 40k confirmed cases. Is this a dangerous disease for most of us? No.

Does it kill as much as cancer? No.

Why is Covid being treated differently to all the other diseases in the world?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 12, 2021, 01:41:16 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 12, 2021, 10:09:29 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 12, 2021, 10:03:03 AM
The proper solution is to lock down and isolate Ireland completely, and keep its borders shut until the rest of the world has stamped it out. No exceptions. Nil.

If that is not feasible, then we already have nearly done enough to open up again. Once the over 70s and high risk groups have been vaccinated, then Covid's potential to kill is minimal to none. Any measures between where we are now, and the complete isolation described above, is little more than chasing a rainbow.

It's not feasible. It won't happen.

New Zealand option is not an option for us. We have the UK 20 mins away on a plane with no (at the moment) quarantine.

The Isle of Man and Channel Islands are nearer, yet they have contained the virus, because of tough restrictions. No reason why the whole of Ireland couldn't do the same.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 12, 2021, 01:44:35 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 12, 2021, 10:03:03 AM
The proper solution is to lock down and isolate Ireland completely, and keep its borders shut until the rest of the world has stamped it out. No exceptions. Nil.

If that is not feasible, then we already have nearly done enough to open up again. Once the over 70s and high risk groups have been vaccinated, then Covid's potential to kill is minimal to none. Any measures between where we are now, and the complete isolation described above, is little more than chasing a rainbow.

100% agree.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 12, 2021, 01:51:42 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 12, 2021, 01:41:16 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 12, 2021, 10:09:29 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 12, 2021, 10:03:03 AM
The proper solution is to lock down and isolate Ireland completely, and keep its borders shut until the rest of the world has stamped it out. No exceptions. Nil.

If that is not feasible, then we already have nearly done enough to open up again. Once the over 70s and high risk groups have been vaccinated, then Covid's potential to kill is minimal to none. Any measures between where we are now, and the complete isolation described above, is little more than chasing a rainbow.

It's not feasible. It won't happen.

New Zealand option is not an option for us. We have the UK 20 mins away on a plane with no (at the moment) quarantine.

The Isle of Man and Channel Islands are nearer, yet they have contained the virus, because of tough restrictions. No reason why the whole of Ireland couldn't do the same.

Because they don't have a complex political situation. Ireland has two jurisdictions for one Island. You can lockdown the Republic of Ireland, but you still have Nothern Ireland and vice versa. There is no all Ireland approach. So it won't happen.

It should happen, but it won't. The DUP telling their support bases to approach this in on an All Ireland basis is never, ever going to happen. Because essentially that is the lifeblood of their party and their people. Anti All Ireland.

There is also the financial aspect. Who covers the cost of Northern Ireland if they go All Ireland, closing down. Does London continue to prop them up? The Irish Govt can't afford to do it.

It's just not happening lads. No matter how much you want it to. With the vaccines on the way and being rolled out, there is more chance of the pandemic ending via herd immunity / vaccination than 3 Governments getting round a table and sorting it out closing the borders.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 01:51:46 PM
angelo wont be happy that you are pro lockdown...

benny slightly off topic here... you are anti vaccine due to the unknowns of long term effect and mis trust of pharm companys.... do you use mobiles 3g 4g 5g wifi any new technologies etc.?  do you have trust on tech companies? do you not use any new tech due to unknowns of long term effects? the same could be said of any new food additives etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 12, 2021, 01:57:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 01:36:40 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 01:28:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 01:06:37 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 12:26:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:58:11 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 11:56:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:51:22 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 11:40:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:21:04 AM
Would anyone like to tell me while at hell's gates in January, with hospitals at crisis point, Covid rampant and all the rest how we managed to have 179 deaths in Jan 2021 than we had in Jan 2018?

The lockdown extremists and the flu deniers will surely be scratching their head at that one. I can't see any outrage here in Jan and Feb 2018 about the number of lives lost and how we must or should have acted to save those lives. People shrugged their shoulders and accepted it.

The hypocrisy is off the charts. It's easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.

You can never trust your facts as was shown on another thread.

I don't have the figures for January 18 but the NISRA stats show that the number of registered deaths year to date 5/2/2021 was 2,384 compared to an average for the previous 5 years of 1,888. That's a 26% increase. Which is massive when you take into account the fact that lockdown has been in place helping to at least slow the spread. Over 700 covid deaths registered in 2021 so far which explains the large increase before you try to blame it on other factors.

Here's NISRA figures.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018.
1,922 deaths in Jan 2021

Should we take into account we had a flu jab in 2017/18 or just ignore that?

The vast, vast majority of people who get Covid neither need hopsitalisation or die.

Nobody is saying it's not serious but was the winter flu of 17/18 not serious and why did we not take action to save lives? I can't square off that hypocrisy.

Where are you seeing that? There weekly release only shows 2021 compared to the averages for the last 5 years. And what it says is 1922 deaths (up to 29/1/21) which compares to the 5 year average of 1,550. Even if you take the highest weekly death rate for each week over the 5 years (they might not all come from 2018) the total number for that is 1,810.

Sorry.

Thought I attached the link in the last post

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls

I think there is a timing issue in terms of weeks brought in when you look at that table. They have a lot of other tables showing a week by week comparison of the last 5 years (including maximum deaths each week) which clearly show there has been more deaths in January 2021 compared to 2018. And that is only one month, as pointed out to you before covid is relentess and is causing excess deaths month after month after month.

But none to the same peak as winter flu 17/18 where we just shrugged our shoulders and put it down as a bad one.

Every week in 2021 to date the death rate has been higher than the highest week of the last 5 years. The information is all in the NISRA stats that you are quoting. And that's not taking into account December which was above average as well. So not only have they reached the winter peak of 17/18 they have surpassed it. And that's only one period - this thing has been causing large increases in deaths since last March and that is despite restrictions in place.

But again, never the peak of winter flu in Jan 18 and that was vaccines being administered in advance.

And what was our reaction to that? We didn't bat an eyelid.

Nobody is denying Covid but the fearmongering around it needs to stop.

Restrictions in place or whatever - what's the fatality of this virus?

In u40s its killed hanful of people in around 40k confirmed cases. Is this a dangerous disease for most of us? No.

Does it kill as much as cancer? No.

Why is Covid being treated differently to all the other diseases in the world?
hard to argue with any of thay in fairness
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 01:58:09 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 01:51:46 PM
angelo wont be happy that you are pro lockdown...

benny slightly off topic here... you are anti vaccine due to the unknowns of long term effect and mis trust of pharm companys.... do you use mobiles 3g 4g 5g wifi any new technologies etc.?  do you have trust on tech companies? do you not use any new tech due to unknowns of long term effects? the same could be said of any new food additives etc.

Would you be shamed or ostracised in society for having reservations on 5G or foot additives.

You have two sides to this debate:

Those who have genuine reservations about the vaccine and only wish to have their views respected and taken on board.

Those who are very much for the vaccine and are openly hostile to anyone who questions it, sadly this seems to be the majority grouping.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 02:00:23 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 12, 2021, 01:57:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 01:36:40 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 01:28:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 01:06:37 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 12:26:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:58:11 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 11:56:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:51:22 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 11:40:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:21:04 AM
Would anyone like to tell me while at hell's gates in January, with hospitals at crisis point, Covid rampant and all the rest how we managed to have 179 deaths in Jan 2021 than we had in Jan 2018?

The lockdown extremists and the flu deniers will surely be scratching their head at that one. I can't see any outrage here in Jan and Feb 2018 about the number of lives lost and how we must or should have acted to save those lives. People shrugged their shoulders and accepted it.

The hypocrisy is off the charts. It's easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.

You can never trust your facts as was shown on another thread.

I don't have the figures for January 18 but the NISRA stats show that the number of registered deaths year to date 5/2/2021 was 2,384 compared to an average for the previous 5 years of 1,888. That's a 26% increase. Which is massive when you take into account the fact that lockdown has been in place helping to at least slow the spread. Over 700 covid deaths registered in 2021 so far which explains the large increase before you try to blame it on other factors.

Here's NISRA figures.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018.
1,922 deaths in Jan 2021

Should we take into account we had a flu jab in 2017/18 or just ignore that?

The vast, vast majority of people who get Covid neither need hopsitalisation or die.

Nobody is saying it's not serious but was the winter flu of 17/18 not serious and why did we not take action to save lives? I can't square off that hypocrisy.

Where are you seeing that? There weekly release only shows 2021 compared to the averages for the last 5 years. And what it says is 1922 deaths (up to 29/1/21) which compares to the 5 year average of 1,550. Even if you take the highest weekly death rate for each week over the 5 years (they might not all come from 2018) the total number for that is 1,810.

Sorry.

Thought I attached the link in the last post

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls

I think there is a timing issue in terms of weeks brought in when you look at that table. They have a lot of other tables showing a week by week comparison of the last 5 years (including maximum deaths each week) which clearly show there has been more deaths in January 2021 compared to 2018. And that is only one month, as pointed out to you before covid is relentess and is causing excess deaths month after month after month.

But none to the same peak as winter flu 17/18 where we just shrugged our shoulders and put it down as a bad one.

Every week in 2021 to date the death rate has been higher than the highest week of the last 5 years. The information is all in the NISRA stats that you are quoting. And that's not taking into account December which was above average as well. So not only have they reached the winter peak of 17/18 they have surpassed it. And that's only one period - this thing has been causing large increases in deaths since last March and that is despite restrictions in place.

But again, never the peak of winter flu in Jan 18 and that was vaccines being administered in advance.

And what was our reaction to that? We didn't bat an eyelid.

Nobody is denying Covid but the fearmongering around it needs to stop.

Restrictions in place or whatever - what's the fatality of this virus?

In u40s its killed hanful of people in around 40k confirmed cases. Is this a dangerous disease for most of us? No.

Does it kill as much as cancer? No.

Why is Covid being treated differently to all the other diseases in the world?
hard to argue with any of thay in fairness

its very easy to argue all of it (some elements on relevancy to covid)and i hope redhand santa does. if ive time.later i will  and you can comment on my counterpoints.. ive no intention on engaging with angelo..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 12, 2021, 02:03:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 12, 2021, 01:57:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 01:36:40 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 01:28:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 01:06:37 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 12:26:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:58:11 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 11:56:38 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:51:22 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 12, 2021, 11:40:17 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 11:21:04 AM
Would anyone like to tell me while at hell's gates in January, with hospitals at crisis point, Covid rampant and all the rest how we managed to have 179 deaths in Jan 2021 than we had in Jan 2018?

The lockdown extremists and the flu deniers will surely be scratching their head at that one. I can't see any outrage here in Jan and Feb 2018 about the number of lives lost and how we must or should have acted to save those lives. People shrugged their shoulders and accepted it.

The hypocrisy is off the charts. It's easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.

You can never trust your facts as was shown on another thread.

I don't have the figures for January 18 but the NISRA stats show that the number of registered deaths year to date 5/2/2021 was 2,384 compared to an average for the previous 5 years of 1,888. That's a 26% increase. Which is massive when you take into account the fact that lockdown has been in place helping to at least slow the spread. Over 700 covid deaths registered in 2021 so far which explains the large increase before you try to blame it on other factors.

Here's NISRA figures.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018.
1,922 deaths in Jan 2021

Should we take into account we had a flu jab in 2017/18 or just ignore that?

The vast, vast majority of people who get Covid neither need hopsitalisation or die.

Nobody is saying it's not serious but was the winter flu of 17/18 not serious and why did we not take action to save lives? I can't square off that hypocrisy.

Where are you seeing that? There weekly release only shows 2021 compared to the averages for the last 5 years. And what it says is 1922 deaths (up to 29/1/21) which compares to the 5 year average of 1,550. Even if you take the highest weekly death rate for each week over the 5 years (they might not all come from 2018) the total number for that is 1,810.

Sorry.

Thought I attached the link in the last post

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls

I think there is a timing issue in terms of weeks brought in when you look at that table. They have a lot of other tables showing a week by week comparison of the last 5 years (including maximum deaths each week) which clearly show there has been more deaths in January 2021 compared to 2018. And that is only one month, as pointed out to you before covid is relentess and is causing excess deaths month after month after month.

But none to the same peak as winter flu 17/18 where we just shrugged our shoulders and put it down as a bad one.

Every week in 2021 to date the death rate has been higher than the highest week of the last 5 years. The information is all in the NISRA stats that you are quoting. And that's not taking into account December which was above average as well. So not only have they reached the winter peak of 17/18 they have surpassed it. And that's only one period - this thing has been causing large increases in deaths since last March and that is despite restrictions in place.

But again, never the peak of winter flu in Jan 18 and that was vaccines being administered in advance.

And what was our reaction to that? We didn't bat an eyelid.

Nobody is denying Covid but the fearmongering around it needs to stop.

Restrictions in place or whatever - what's the fatality of this virus?

In u40s its killed hanful of people in around 40k confirmed cases. Is this a dangerous disease for most of us? No.

Does it kill as much as cancer? No.

Why is Covid being treated differently to all the other diseases in the world?
hard to argue with any of thay in fairness

It would all be relevant if we'd locked down in 2018 as well.

Which we didn't.

Which makes comparisons absolutely pointless.

Which has been pointed out before

Multiple times

On this thread
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 02:06:31 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 02:00:23 PM


its very easy to argue all of it (some elements on relevancy to covid)and i hope redhand santa does. if ive time.later i will  and you can comment on my counterpoints.. ive no intention on engaging with angelo..

Not easy to argue it at all.

In fact this is the same point I've been making for a number of months now and nobody has been able to give an effective answer.

As long as I've been on this planet people have died every year - heart disease, respiratory illnesses, suicide, road traffic accidents, cancer, flu, meningitis.

We know most of the causes of these deaths yet we never shut down society for them. We know smoking and alcohol cause millions of deaths every year worldwide yet we allow them freely in society, the only catch we have is that we allow people do it at a certain age.

It's insincere and disingenuous to say we are doing this to save lives when we are happy to enable so many needless deaths every year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 02:08:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 12, 2021, 02:03:36 PM

It would all be relevant if we'd locked down in 2018 as well.

Which we didn't.

Which makes comparisons absolutely pointless.

Which has been pointed out before

Multiple times

On this thread

That's exactly what makes it relevant.

We did not lock down at a time when we had peak deaths, in fact we did not even give a toss then.

If Covid is killing the same amount of people in 6 years time do you think we'll still be in lockdown or will we throw our hat at it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 12, 2021, 02:13:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 02:08:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 12, 2021, 02:03:36 PM

It would all be relevant if we'd locked down in 2018 as well.

Which we didn't.

Which makes comparisons absolutely pointless.

Which has been pointed out before

Multiple times

On this thread

That's exactly what makes it relevant.

We did not lock down at a time when we had peak deaths, in fact we did not even give a toss then.

If Covid is killing the same amount of people in 6 years time do you think we'll still be in lockdown or will we throw our hat at it?
Nice try. The point is (as you know) we had roughly the same deaths in Jan this year as the worst flu year in 40 years. And that's despite the global lockdowns being implemented. God knows what would have been the figure if we hadn't locked down. It's quite straightforward really.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on February 12, 2021, 02:14:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 01:58:09 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 01:51:46 PM
angelo wont be happy that you are pro lockdown...

benny slightly off topic here... you are anti vaccine due to the unknowns of long term effect and mis trust of pharm companys.... do you use mobiles 3g 4g 5g wifi any new technologies etc.?  do you have trust on tech companies? do you not use any new tech due to unknowns of long term effects? the same could be said of any new food additives etc.

Would you be shamed or ostracised in society for having reservations on 5G or foot additives.

You have two sides to this debate:

Those who have genuine reservations about the vaccine and only wish to have their views respected and taken on board.

Those who are very much for the vaccine and are openly hostile to anyone who questions it, sadly this seems to be the majority grouping.

Yes and especially when the reservations are based from a complete lack of understanding science.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 02:18:55 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 12, 2021, 02:14:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 01:58:09 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 01:51:46 PM
angelo wont be happy that you are pro lockdown...

benny slightly off topic here... you are anti vaccine due to the unknowns of long term effect and mis trust of pharm companys.... do you use mobiles 3g 4g 5g wifi any new technologies etc.?  do you have trust on tech companies? do you not use any new tech due to unknowns of long term effects? the same could be said of any new food additives etc.

Would you be shamed or ostracised in society for having reservations on 5G or foot additives.

You have two sides to this debate:

Those who have genuine reservations about the vaccine and only wish to have their views respected and taken on board.

Those who are very much for the vaccine and are openly hostile to anyone who questions it, sadly this seems to be the majority grouping.

Yes and especially when the reservations are based from a complete lack of understanding science.

I have no opinions on 5G.

Are you an expert?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on February 12, 2021, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 02:18:55 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 12, 2021, 02:14:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 01:58:09 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 01:51:46 PM
angelo wont be happy that you are pro lockdown...

benny slightly off topic here... you are anti vaccine due to the unknowns of long term effect and mis trust of pharm companys.... do you use mobiles 3g 4g 5g wifi any new technologies etc.?  do you have trust on tech companies? do you not use any new tech due to unknowns of long term effects? the same could be said of any new food additives etc.

Would you be shamed or ostracised in society for having reservations on 5G or foot additives.

You have two sides to this debate:

Those who have genuine reservations about the vaccine and only wish to have their views respected and taken on board.

Those who are very much for the vaccine and are openly hostile to anyone who questions it, sadly this seems to be the majority grouping.

Yes and especially when the reservations are based from a complete lack of understanding science.

I have no opinions on 5G.

Are you an expert?

So why ask would people be shunned for peddling 5g conspiracy theories when all of them have been debunked; and the pseudo science behind them is from raving lunatics. So yes they should be shunned.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NAG1 on February 12, 2021, 02:27:57 PM
Nearly time to lock this one up  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 02:34:14 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 12, 2021, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 02:18:55 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 12, 2021, 02:14:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 01:58:09 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 01:51:46 PM
angelo wont be happy that you are pro lockdown...

benny slightly off topic here... you are anti vaccine due to the unknowns of long term effect and mis trust of pharm companys.... do you use mobiles 3g 4g 5g wifi any new technologies etc.?  do you have trust on tech companies? do you not use any new tech due to unknowns of long term effects? the same could be said of any new food additives etc.

Would you be shamed or ostracised in society for having reservations on 5G or foot additives.

You have two sides to this debate:

Those who have genuine reservations about the vaccine and only wish to have their views respected and taken on board.

Those who are very much for the vaccine and are openly hostile to anyone who questions it, sadly this seems to be the majority grouping.

Yes and especially when the reservations are based from a complete lack of understanding science.

I have no opinions on 5G.

Are you an expert?

So why ask would people be shunned for peddling 5g conspiracy theories when all of them have been debunked; and the pseudo science behind them is from raving lunatics. So yes they should be shunned.

Why?

I don't know anything about 5G. Doesn't interest me in the slightest, it was not me who brought it into the discussion.

You clearly believe in censorship, I believe in people being allowed to put forward their arguments and articulate them and people can draw what they want from them.

You seem to crave censorship, the Nazis did too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 03:34:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 01:58:09 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 01:51:46 PM
angelo wont be happy that you are pro lockdown...

benny slightly off topic here... you are anti vaccine due to the unknowns of long term effect and mis trust of pharm companys.... do you use mobiles 3g 4g 5g wifi any new technologies etc.?  do you have trust on tech companies? do you not use any new tech due to unknowns of long term effects? the same could be said of any new food additives etc.

Would you be shamed or ostracised in society for having reservations on 5G or foot additives.

You have two sides to this debate:

Those who have genuine reservations about the vaccine and only wish to have their views respected and taken on board.

Those who are very much for the vaccine and are openly hostile to anyone who questions it, sadly this seems to be the majority grouping.

i have simply asked a couple of questions to benny based on his personal opinions.

i have not shamed or ostracised anyone, disrepected anyone views or been hostile in asking the questions.. that your response goes straight there is why i wont engage with you further.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 03:53:05 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 03:34:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 01:58:09 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 01:51:46 PM
angelo wont be happy that you are pro lockdown...

benny slightly off topic here... you are anti vaccine due to the unknowns of long term effect and mis trust of pharm companys.... do you use mobiles 3g 4g 5g wifi any new technologies etc.?  do you have trust on tech companies? do you not use any new tech due to unknowns of long term effects? the same could be said of any new food additives etc.

Would you be shamed or ostracised in society for having reservations on 5G or foot additives.

You have two sides to this debate:

Those who have genuine reservations about the vaccine and only wish to have their views respected and taken on board.

Those who are very much for the vaccine and are openly hostile to anyone who questions it, sadly this seems to be the majority grouping.

i have simply asked a couple of questions to benny based on his personal opinions.

i have not shamed or ostracised anyone, disrepected anyone views or been hostile in asking the questions.. that your response goes straight there is why i wont engage with you further.

You might not have in this case but I've been accused of wanting to suffocate the elderly with a pillow and being likened to Harold Shipman because I have reservations about a vaccine.

Is it not alright for people to have their own views on these matters?

Is it not dangerous to shout down and demonise people who challenge the official message. From what I know about big pharma, it's not an industry that deserves our trust.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 04:18:16 PM
QuoteBut again, never the peak of winter flu in Jan 18 and that was vaccines being administered in advance.

And what was our reaction to that? We didn't bat an eyelid.

Nobody is denying Covid but the fearmongering around it needs to stop.

Restrictions in place or whatever - what's the fatality of this virus?

In u40s its killed hanful of people in around 40k confirmed cases. Is this a dangerous disease for most of us? No.

Does it kill as much as cancer? No.

Why is Covid being treated differently to all the other diseases in the world?

There was a thread on here discussing the aussie flu and the ineffective vaccine at the time in 2018. There was numerous newspaper article about it which can easily be googled. One poster repeating "we didnt bat an eyelid" doesnt make it true. if you look at the numbers for the the following two years for Jan the number are reduced so just based on numbers what we did in the 12 mths between jan 18 and jan 19 worked. We had a vaccine it just work as expect (again thread and numerous articles) it was also one month so harder ro react to as something happens. we saw covid coming as we saw what was happening in Italy.

also flu is not covid. annual deaths were comparable with other years. covid isnt seasonal. deaths rates compared to 2019 were up each month last year based on stats angelo shared.

sometimes it takes something huge to happen for change to take place. mask wearing and hand hygiene will increase like has has in Asia, vaccine uptake will increase also. i hope we dont need to use lockdowns in the future but it now part of our toolkit.

covid is scary, it has killed and hospitalised alot of people of all ages despite the massive societal changes that were/have been put in place to reduce death and hosiptalisation.

purely looking at fataility rates and age profiles is completely missing the dangers of covid and purposely disingenuous. Covid has overwhelmed our hospitals even with restrictions and done it very quickly. the restrictions have reduces the numbers of covid fatalities, they would be much higher if we didnt do anything as hospitals would be overrun.

covid has reduced staffing level for both covid and other treatments, it is eaily spread and hard detect with lab testing so is difficult to prevent transmission.

cancer and covid are not comparable. it is a false equilivant. Cancer does more people. Very few familes arent touched by cancer is it not preventable like covid...

covid is treated differently as it is new. it is highly contagious, treatments arent advanced for it, there was no vaccine and it was treated similar to some other virus but covid due it the length of time and the fact you can spread and be asymptomatic requires more measures.

again it is not about fatality rates it affects all ages groups, all age groups can spread it and all age groups can require hosipalisation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:42:00 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 04:18:16 PM
QuoteBut again, never the peak of winter flu in Jan 18 and that was vaccines being administered in advance.

And what was our reaction to that? We didn't bat an eyelid.

Nobody is denying Covid but the fearmongering around it needs to stop.

Restrictions in place or whatever - what's the fatality of this virus?

In u40s its killed hanful of people in around 40k confirmed cases. Is this a dangerous disease for most of us? No.

Does it kill as much as cancer? No.

Why is Covid being treated differently to all the other diseases in the world?

There was a thread on here discussing the aussie flu and the ineffective vaccine at the time in 2018. There was numerous newspaper article about it which can easily be googled. One poster repeating "we didnt bat an eyelid" doesnt make it true. if you look at the numbers for the the following two years for Jan the number are reduced so just based on numbers what we did in the 12 mths between jan 18 and jan 19 worked. We had a vaccine it just work as expect (again thread and numerous articles) it was also one month so harder ro react to as something happens. we saw covid coming as we saw what was happening in Italy.

also flu is not covid. annual deaths were comparable with other years. covid isnt seasonal. deaths rates compared to 2019 were up each month last year based on stats angelo shared.

sometimes it takes something huge to happen for change to take place. mask wearing and hand hygiene will increase like has has in Asia, vaccine uptake will increase also. i hope we dont need to use lockdowns in the future but it now part of our toolkit.

covid is scary, it has killed and hospitalised alot of people of all ages despite the massive societal changes that were/have been put in place to reduce death and hosiptalisation.

purely looking at fataility rates and age profiles is completely missing the dangers of covid and purposely disingenuous. Covid has overwhelmed our hospitals even with restrictions and done it very quickly. the restrictions have reduces the numbers of covid fatalities, they would be much higher if we didnt do anything as hospitals would be overrun.

covid has reduced staffing level for both covid and other treatments, it is eaily spread and hard detect with lab testing so is difficult to prevent transmission.

cancer and covid are not comparable. it is a false equilivant. Cancer does more people. Very few familes arent touched by cancer is it not preventable like covid...

covid is treated differently as it is new. it is highly contagious, treatments arent advanced for it, there was no vaccine and it was treated similar to some other virus but covid due it the length of time and the fact you can spread and be asymptomatic requires more measures.

again it is not about fatality rates it affects all ages groups, all age groups can spread it and all age groups can require hosipalisation.

Excuse me now but that's just being disingenuous. When I say we didn't bat an eyelid, it is 100% correct and to state otherwise undermines any credibility you have.

If you can point me towards a post from 2017/18 that cited lockdowns as being need to combat the huge death tolls that were occurring in that period I will concede. If you can point me to media articles calling for the need for lockdowns to save lives back then I will concede. The bottom line is you can't because they don't exist. The bottom line is that we were happy to go on with lives as normal as it was only flu that was clocking up rapid deaths. The line that we are fed is that we are in lockdown to save lives but when you look beyond it, it's complete and utter horseshit.

Posters are here like Sid, Rossfan and a few others will put words into your mouth and twist and misrepresent what you say when it comes to looking at the big picture. It's very clear now by all the data who this virus impacts, it's not the young, fit and healthy. It's the elderly and those in poor health, the same demograph we jab every winter to stop them from dying with flu but that doesn't stop us going about as normal at winter and these people dying off of whatever ailments are out there and dying of things that we actively enable in our society.

So don't insult me and every other poster on the board by saying we took serious attention to the winter flu in 17/18. We did not, there were 50k excess deaths in the UK from Dec 17 - Mar 18. We did nothing to stop it and barely took time to pause and reflect, that's the fact of the matter and that might be an uncomfortable truth for you when you compare it to our reaction to Covid but to try and downplay the winter season of 17/18 or to try and disingenuously say we took it seriously or took big time to reflect on it is utterly bogus. You can't revise history.

Winter flu of 17/18 was a disaster that cost lives but nobody really cared or were bothered to save lives back then.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 12, 2021, 04:47:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:42:00 PM
Winter flu of 17/18 was a disaster that cost lives but nobody really cared or were bothered to save lives back then.

Perhaps you can say that it was. However, it went away in a couple of months so it is a totally different case to Covid. So stop yakking on about it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:49:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 12, 2021, 04:47:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:42:00 PM
Winter flu of 17/18 was a disaster that cost lives but nobody really cared or were bothered to save lives back then.

Perhaps you can say that it was. However, it went away in a couple of months so it is a totally different case to Covid. So stop yakking on about it.

Winter flu is an annual thing, it comes back every year and kills on an annual basis. We just don't seem to care enough to do anything that might minimise our reduce those figures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 04:52:36 PM
that post was for armagh18. 

can you clarify that to bat an eyelid means request a lockdown?

this would not be what to bat an eyelid means to almost every other person on the planet who has heard the expression before.

i dont have to same amount of time to spend posting in here as you and response to all your tangents and incoherent ramblings but when i have the chance where people agree with what you have posted i will offer counterpoints. they can make up their own minds.

we have a vaccine and muliple ad campaigns etc. to inform on flu.

if any poster is insulted by comments other than angelo im happy to discuss them further or provide clairity as they are not intended to insult anyone including angelo.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on February 12, 2021, 05:38:44 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 02:34:14 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 12, 2021, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 02:18:55 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 12, 2021, 02:14:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 01:58:09 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 01:51:46 PM
angelo wont be happy that you are pro lockdown...

benny slightly off topic here... you are anti vaccine due to the unknowns of long term effect and mis trust of pharm companys.... do you use mobiles 3g 4g 5g wifi any new technologies etc.?  do you have trust on tech companies? do you not use any new tech due to unknowns of long term effects? the same could be said of any new food additives etc.

Would you be shamed or ostracised in society for having reservations on 5G or foot additives.

You have two sides to this debate:

Those who have genuine reservations about the vaccine and only wish to have their views respected and taken on board.

Those who are very much for the vaccine and are openly hostile to anyone who questions it, sadly this seems to be the majority grouping.

Yes and especially when the reservations are based from a complete lack of understanding science.

I have no opinions on 5G.

Are you an expert?

So why ask would people be shunned for peddling 5g conspiracy theories when all of them have been debunked; and the pseudo science behind them is from raving lunatics. So yes they should be shunned.

Why?

I don't know anything about 5G. Doesn't interest me in the slightest, it was not me who brought it into the discussion.

You clearly believe in censorship, I believe in people being allowed to put forward their arguments and articulate them and people can draw what they want from them.

You seem to crave censorship, the Nazis did too.

I see we have gone full Godwin now  :D

In fairness the Nazi's peddled mistruth and propaganda; at the expense of the truth. Just because you can articulate a fake argument, especially based on lies, misunderstandings, pseudo science etc.... doesn't mean you should be allowed too; it's still a lie.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 12, 2021, 05:54:18 PM
So Sid you say Australia are right to shut
What happens if they open up and 2 days later more cases?
And so on so forth
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 05:59:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:49:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 12, 2021, 04:47:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:42:00 PM
Winter flu of 17/18 was a disaster that cost lives but nobody really cared or were bothered to save lives back then.

Perhaps you can say that it was. However, it went away in a couple of months so it is a totally different case to Covid. So stop yakking on about it.

Winter flu is an annual thing, it comes back every year and kills on an annual basis. We just don't seem to care enough to do anything that might minimise our reduce those figures.

Is it happening this year?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 12, 2021, 06:10:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:49:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 12, 2021, 04:47:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:42:00 PM
Winter flu of 17/18 was a disaster that cost lives but nobody really cared or were bothered to save lives back then.

Perhaps you can say that it was. However, it went away in a couple of months so it is a totally different case to Covid. So stop yakking on about it.

Winter flu is an annual thing, it comes back every year and kills on an annual basis. We just don't seem to care enough to do anything that might minimise our reduce those figures.

Mortality including winter flu fell for 10 years in a row until Covid.
Last year mortality in the UK increased by 13%

20,000 people died between Jan 13 and Feb 9 in the UK.
Covid is far deadlier than winter flu.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on February 12, 2021, 06:17:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:49:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 12, 2021, 04:47:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:42:00 PM
Winter flu of 17/18 was a disaster that cost lives but nobody really cared or were bothered to save lives back then.

Perhaps you can say that it was. However, it went away in a couple of months so it is a totally different case to Covid. So stop yakking on about it.

Winter flu is an annual thing, it comes back every year and kills on an annual basis. We just don't seem to care enough to do anything that might minimise our reduce those figures.
That is totally untrue. I get a flu vaccine every year to minimise risk.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 06:25:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2021, 06:10:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:49:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 12, 2021, 04:47:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:42:00 PM
Winter flu of 17/18 was a disaster that cost lives but nobody really cared or were bothered to save lives back then.

Perhaps you can say that it was. However, it went away in a couple of months so it is a totally different case to Covid. So stop yakking on about it.

Winter flu is an annual thing, it comes back every year and kills on an annual basis. We just don't seem to care enough to do anything that might minimise our reduce those figures.

Mortality including winter flu fell for 10 years in a row until Covid.
Last year mortality in the UK increased by 13%

20,000 people died between Jan 13 and Feb 9 in the UK.
Covid is far deadlier than winter flu.

Invalid comparison due to

A) arbitrary recording of Covid deaths
B) no mass testing for flu

50k excess deaths in Dec 17 - Mar 18 during winter flu season.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 06:28:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 06:25:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2021, 06:10:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:49:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 12, 2021, 04:47:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:42:00 PM
Winter flu of 17/18 was a disaster that cost lives but nobody really cared or were bothered to save lives back then.

Perhaps you can say that it was. However, it went away in a couple of months so it is a totally different case to Covid. So stop yakking on about it.

Winter flu is an annual thing, it comes back every year and kills on an annual basis. We just don't seem to care enough to do anything that might minimise our reduce those figures.

Mortality including winter flu fell for 10 years in a row until Covid.
Last year mortality in the UK increased by 13%

20,000 people died between Jan 13 and Feb 9 in the UK.
Covid is far deadlier than winter flu.

Invalid comparison due to

A) arbitrary recording of Covid deaths
B) no mass testing for flu

50k excess deaths in Dec 17 - Mar 18 during winter flu season.

Extra 20k flu related deaths, not 50k, please don't inflate the deaths please..

If there is no testing for flu, then how do you know you've got it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 06:29:46 PM
milltown i think he is right it is invalid to compare flu and covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 06:32:12 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 06:29:46 PM
milltown i think he is right it is invalid to compare flu and covid.

I'm trying to find out from Angelo if he thinks that Covid is not real and its actually the Flu we are having at the minute
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 06:33:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 06:32:12 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 06:29:46 PM
milltown i think he is right it is invalid to compare flu and covid.

I'm trying to find out from Angelo if he thinks that Covid is not real and its actually the Flu we are having at the minute

I have not said Covid is not real.

I have said our reaction to is overcooked and disingenuous and is creating more problems than its solving.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 06:43:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 06:33:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 06:32:12 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 06:29:46 PM
milltown i think he is right it is invalid to compare flu and covid.

I'm trying to find out from Angelo if he thinks that Covid is not real and its actually the Flu we are having at the minute

I have not said Covid is not real.

I have said our reaction to is overcooked and disingenuous and is creating more problems than its solving.

The reaction is to the fact that this virus is brand new, with no vaccine to contain it and with transmissions being so easily passed that the lockdowns (as horrible as they are) were the only way to slow down the hospital admissions and for the NHS, which is on its knees due to poor funding, not to collapse.

Had we looked at it with just a flippant approach we'd have a cases that would have been much worse than the Spanish Flu.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 06:49:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 06:28:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 06:25:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2021, 06:10:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:49:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 12, 2021, 04:47:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:42:00 PM
Winter flu of 17/18 was a disaster that cost lives but nobody really cared or were bothered to save lives back then.

Perhaps you can say that it was. However, it went away in a couple of months so it is a totally different case to Covid. So stop yakking on about it.

Winter flu is an annual thing, it comes back every year and kills on an annual basis. We just don't seem to care enough to do anything that might minimise our reduce those figures.

Mortality including winter flu fell for 10 years in a row until Covid.
Last year mortality in the UK increased by 13%

20,000 people died between Jan 13 and Feb 9 in the UK.
Covid is far deadlier than winter flu.

Invalid comparison due to

A) arbitrary recording of Covid deaths
B) no mass testing for flu

50k excess deaths in Dec 17 - Mar 18 during winter flu season.

Extra 20k flu related deaths, not 50k, please don't inflate the deaths please..

If there is no testing for flu, then how do you know you've got it?

50k excess deaths in 17/18 winter flu season.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/excesswintermortalityinenglandandwales/2017to2018provisionaland2016to2017final

1. In the 2017 to 2018 winter period, there were an estimated 50,100 excess winter deaths in England and Wales.


Apology accepted.

That's also only an England and Wales figure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 06:56:35 PM
are you concerned with England and Wales? Its very difficult to follow you, as you change countries so many times to find something that suits you, bit of a Traveller
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 07:03:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 06:56:35 PM
are you concerned with England and Wales? Its very difficult to follow you, as you change countries so many times to find something that suits you, bit of a Traveller

I'm not sure we have a figure for the O6.

If you want to use the NISRA figures:

We currently have 491 excess deaths in Dec20/Jan21 relative to Dec19/Jan20
We had 329 excess deaths in Dec 17/Jan8 relative to Dec16/Jan17

Anyway, I accepted your apology.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 07:39:44 PM
Annual deaths in the UK and constituent countries
Year    United Kingdom England and Wales   England    Wales   Scotland   Northern Ireland
2019    604,707   530,841      496,370        33,183        58,108            15,758
2018    616,014   541,589      505,859        34,406        58,503            15,922
2017    607,172   533,253      498,882        33,248        57,883            16,036
2016    597,206   525,048      490,791        33,066        56,728            15,430
2015    602,782   529,655      495,309        33,198        57,579            15,548
2014    570,341   501,424      468,875        31,439        54,239            14,678
2013        576,458   506,790      473,552        32,138        54,700            14,968
2012    569,024   499,331      466,779        31,502        54,937            14,756
2011    552,232   484,367      452,862        30,426        53,661            14,204
2010    561,666   493,242      461,017        31,197     53,967            14,457


Annually the yearly deaths didn't change that much, the reasons we had that spike was poor vaccine and a long winter that lasted from November through to March. In NI there was a spike of less than a 1000 extra deaths. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 07:54:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 07:39:44 PM
Annual deaths in the UK and constituent countries
Year    United Kingdom England and Wales   England    Wales   Scotland   Northern Ireland
2019    604,707   530,841      496,370        33,183        58,108            15,758
2018    616,014   541,589      505,859        34,406        58,503            15,922
2017    607,172   533,253      498,882        33,248        57,883            16,036
2016    597,206   525,048      490,791        33,066        56,728            15,430
2015    602,782   529,655      495,309        33,198        57,579            15,548
2014    570,341   501,424      468,875        31,439        54,239            14,678
2013        576,458   506,790      473,552        32,138        54,700            14,968
2012    569,024   499,331      466,779        31,502        54,937            14,756
2011    552,232   484,367      452,862        30,426        53,661            14,204
2010    561,666   493,242      461,017        31,197     53,967            14,457


Annually the yearly deaths didn't change that much, the reasons we had that spike was poor vaccine and a long winter that lasted from November through to March. In NI there was a spike of less than a 1000 extra deaths.

We're not talking about the annual deaths. We're talking about the deaths in winter flu season.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 12, 2021, 07:56:28 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 07:54:02 PM
We're not talking about the annual deaths. We're talking about the deaths in winter flu season.

We aren't, you are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on February 12, 2021, 07:56:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 07:39:44 PM
Annual deaths in the UK and constituent countries
Year    United Kingdom England and Wales   England    Wales   Scotland   Northern Ireland
2019    604,707   530,841      496,370        33,183        58,108            15,758
2018    616,014   541,589      505,859        34,406        58,503            15,922
2017    607,172   533,253      498,882        33,248        57,883            16,036
2016    597,206   525,048      490,791        33,066        56,728            15,430
2015    602,782   529,655      495,309        33,198        57,579            15,548
2014    570,341   501,424      468,875        31,439        54,239            14,678
2013        576,458   506,790      473,552        32,138        54,700            14,968
2012    569,024   499,331      466,779        31,502        54,937            14,756
2011    552,232   484,367      452,862        30,426        53,661            14,204
2010    561,666   493,242      461,017        31,197     53,967            14,457


Annually the yearly deaths didn't change that much, the reasons we had that spike was poor vaccine and a long winter that lasted from November through to March. In NI there was a spike of less than a 1000 extra deaths.
Excess deaths is a comparison to the summer months not to other years. An excess death of 50,000 means 50,0000 more died in the winter than the following summer.
Comparing excess from 1 winter to the next gives a truer comparison. Alternatively reading the ONS site rather than just the headlines you get the break down by cause.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 07:57:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 07:54:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 07:39:44 PM
Annual deaths in the UK and constituent countries
Year    United Kingdom England and Wales   England    Wales   Scotland   Northern Ireland
2019    604,707   530,841      496,370        33,183        58,108            15,758
2018    616,014   541,589      505,859        34,406        58,503            15,922
2017    607,172   533,253      498,882        33,248        57,883            16,036
2016    597,206   525,048      490,791        33,066        56,728            15,430
2015    602,782   529,655      495,309        33,198        57,579            15,548
2014    570,341   501,424      468,875        31,439        54,239            14,678
2013        576,458   506,790      473,552        32,138        54,700            14,968
2012    569,024   499,331      466,779        31,502        54,937            14,756
2011    552,232   484,367      452,862        30,426        53,661            14,204
2010    561,666   493,242      461,017        31,197     53,967            14,457


Annually the yearly deaths didn't change that much, the reasons we had that spike was poor vaccine and a long winter that lasted from November through to March. In NI there was a spike of less than a 1000 extra deaths.

We're not talking about the annual deaths. We're talking about the deaths in winter flu season.

But you never cared! As you didn't discuss it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 07:59:13 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 12, 2021, 07:36:25 PM
This guy sums it up well

https://twitter.com/paultreyvaud/status/1359799522449387526

he offers no alternative although i did get bored and might have missed it. was there one?

edit: sorry he suggests locking down all vulnerable and over 70s and provides his breakeven point for his restaurant. no holes to pick there!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 08:00:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 07:57:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 07:54:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 07:39:44 PM
Annual deaths in the UK and constituent countries
Year    United Kingdom England and Wales   England    Wales   Scotland   Northern Ireland
2019    604,707   530,841      496,370        33,183        58,108            15,758
2018    616,014   541,589      505,859        34,406        58,503            15,922
2017    607,172   533,253      498,882        33,248        57,883            16,036
2016    597,206   525,048      490,791        33,066        56,728            15,430
2015    602,782   529,655      495,309        33,198        57,579            15,548
2014    570,341   501,424      468,875        31,439        54,239            14,678
2013        576,458   506,790      473,552        32,138        54,700            14,968
2012    569,024   499,331      466,779        31,502        54,937            14,756
2011    552,232   484,367      452,862        30,426        53,661            14,204
2010    561,666   493,242      461,017        31,197     53,967            14,457


Annually the yearly deaths didn't change that much, the reasons we had that spike was poor vaccine and a long winter that lasted from November through to March. In NI there was a spike of less than a 1000 extra deaths.

We're not talking about the annual deaths. We're talking about the deaths in winter flu season.

But you never cared! As you didn't discuss it

Not really relevant as I'm not contradicting myself with a different stance on Covid whereas the majority of posters here seem to be.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 08:06:10 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 07:59:13 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 12, 2021, 07:36:25 PM
This guy sums it up well

https://twitter.com/paultreyvaud/status/1359799522449387526

he offers no alternative although i did get bored and might have missed it. was there one?

edit: sorry he suggests locking down all vulnerable and over 70s and provides his breakeven point for his restaurant. no holes to pick there!

Close the borders without exception barring imports and exports of goods.

Open up with reasonable restrictions.

Monitor how effective the vaccine is before reopening global travel.

In the meantime, have specific Covid hospitals, widespread use of rapid testing at facilities, maintain reasonable distancing and limited indoor gatherings until numbers fall sufficiently.

Are masks even worth a damn really? The experts say that unless you have the proper masks and you wear them in a certain way they are useless and we know it is completely impractical in all the steps you are meant to take.

This should have been done back in February but governments on both sides of the border and in the UK dragged their heels in trying to keep this or keep it contained.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 08:12:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 08:00:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 07:57:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 07:54:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 07:39:44 PM
Annual deaths in the UK and constituent countries
Year    United Kingdom England and Wales   England    Wales   Scotland   Northern Ireland
2019    604,707   530,841      496,370        33,183        58,108            15,758
2018    616,014   541,589      505,859        34,406        58,503            15,922
2017    607,172   533,253      498,882        33,248        57,883            16,036
2016    597,206   525,048      490,791        33,066        56,728            15,430
2015    602,782   529,655      495,309        33,198        57,579            15,548
2014    570,341   501,424      468,875        31,439        54,239            14,678
2013        576,458   506,790      473,552        32,138        54,700            14,968
2012    569,024   499,331      466,779        31,502        54,937            14,756
2011    552,232   484,367      452,862        30,426        53,661            14,204
2010    561,666   493,242      461,017        31,197     53,967            14,457


Annually the yearly deaths didn't change that much, the reasons we had that spike was poor vaccine and a long winter that lasted from November through to March. In NI there was a spike of less than a 1000 extra deaths.

We're not talking about the annual deaths. We're talking about the deaths in winter flu season.

But you never cared! As you didn't discuss it

Not really relevant as I'm not contradicting myself with a different stance on Covid whereas the majority of posters here seem to be.

You're a contradiction! You said you didn't care for certain 'counties' as it didn't suit your post. But you constantly look for stats in any country that does suit your narrative of people not caring about 27/18 excess fly deaths!!

You're dynamite
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 08:12:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 08:06:10 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 07:59:13 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 12, 2021, 07:36:25 PM
This guy sums it up well

https://twitter.com/paultreyvaud/status/1359799522449387526

he offers no alternative although i did get bored and might have missed it. was there one?

edit: sorry he suggests locking down all vulnerable and over 70s and provides his breakeven point for his restaurant. no holes to pick there!

Close the borders without exception barring imports and exports of goods.

Open up with reasonable restrictions.

Monitor how effective the vaccine is before reopening global travel.

In the meantime, have specific Covid hospitals, widespread use of rapid testing at facilities, maintain reasonable distancing and limited indoor gatherings until numbers fall sufficiently.

Are masks even worth a damn really? The experts say that unless you have the proper masks and you wear them in a certain way they are useless and we know it is completely impractical in all the steps you are meant to take.

This should have been done back in February but governments on both sides of the border and in the UK dragged their heels in trying to keep this or keep it contained.

are they your suggestions or the guy on twitter? or mix?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 12, 2021, 08:15:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 06:25:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2021, 06:10:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:49:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 12, 2021, 04:47:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:42:00 PM
Winter flu of 17/18 was a disaster that cost lives but nobody really cared or were bothered to save lives back then.

Perhaps you can say that it was. However, it went away in a couple of months so it is a totally different case to Covid. So stop yakking on about it.

Winter flu is an annual thing, it comes back every year and kills on an annual basis. We just don't seem to care enough to do anything that might minimise our reduce those figures.

Mortality including winter flu fell for 10 years in a row until Covid.
Last year mortality in the UK increased by 13%

20,000 people died between Jan 13 and Feb 9 in the UK.
Covid is far deadlier than winter flu.

Invalid comparison due to

A) arbitrary recording of Covid deaths
B) no mass testing for flu

50k excess deaths in Dec 17 - Mar 18 during winter flu season.

Invalid comparison as no lockdowns in 17/18.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 12, 2021, 08:24:57 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 07:59:13 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 12, 2021, 07:36:25 PM
This guy sums it up well

https://twitter.com/paultreyvaud/status/1359799522449387526

he offers no alternative although i did get bored and might have missed it. was there one?

edit: sorry he suggests locking down all vulnerable and over 70s and provides his breakeven point for his restaurant. no holes to pick there!

Yeah, 55,000 came through the airports, but this is all tom dick and harry's Fault because they didn't wear a mask when they were buying their milk!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 08:36:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 12, 2021, 08:24:57 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 07:59:13 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 12, 2021, 07:36:25 PM
This guy sums it up well

https://twitter.com/paultreyvaud/status/1359799522449387526

he offers no alternative although i did get bored and might have missed it. was there one?

edit: sorry he suggests locking down all vulnerable and over 70s and provides his breakeven point for his restaurant. no holes to pick there!

Yeah, 55,000 came through the airports, but this is all tom dick and harry's Fault because they didn't wear a mask when they were buying their milk!

who has said benny? i certainly havent. just wondering if you seen my questions on your anti vacvine position. Genuinely interested in knowing more about that position.

the 55k though the airports are all tom dicks and harrys too i imagine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 08:36:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 08:12:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 08:00:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 07:57:49 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 07:54:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 12, 2021, 07:39:44 PM
Annual deaths in the UK and constituent countries
Year    United Kingdom England and Wales   England    Wales   Scotland   Northern Ireland
2019    604,707   530,841      496,370        33,183        58,108            15,758
2018    616,014   541,589      505,859        34,406        58,503            15,922
2017    607,172   533,253      498,882        33,248        57,883            16,036
2016    597,206   525,048      490,791        33,066        56,728            15,430
2015    602,782   529,655      495,309        33,198        57,579            15,548
2014    570,341   501,424      468,875        31,439        54,239            14,678
2013        576,458   506,790      473,552        32,138        54,700            14,968
2012    569,024   499,331      466,779        31,502        54,937            14,756
2011    552,232   484,367      452,862        30,426        53,661            14,204
2010    561,666   493,242      461,017        31,197     53,967            14,457


Annually the yearly deaths didn't change that much, the reasons we had that spike was poor vaccine and a long winter that lasted from November through to March. In NI there was a spike of less than a 1000 extra deaths.

We're not talking about the annual deaths. We're talking about the deaths in winter flu season.

But you never cared! As you didn't discuss it

Not really relevant as I'm not contradicting myself with a different stance on Covid whereas the majority of posters here seem to be.

You're a contradiction! You said you didn't care for certain 'counties' as it didn't suit your post. But you constantly look for stats in any country that does suit your narrative of people not caring about 27/18 excess fly deaths!!

You're dynamite

I said I'm not interested in Americans. They are all capitalist headbangers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 08:37:41 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 12, 2021, 08:15:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 06:25:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2021, 06:10:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:49:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 12, 2021, 04:47:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:42:00 PM
Winter flu of 17/18 was a disaster that cost lives but nobody really cared or were bothered to save lives back then.

Perhaps you can say that it was. However, it went away in a couple of months so it is a totally different case to Covid. So stop yakking on about it.

Winter flu is an annual thing, it comes back every year and kills on an annual basis. We just don't seem to care enough to do anything that might minimise our reduce those figures.

Mortality including winter flu fell for 10 years in a row until Covid.
Last year mortality in the UK increased by 13%

20,000 people died between Jan 13 and Feb 9 in the UK.
Covid is far deadlier than winter flu.

Invalid comparison due to

A) arbitrary recording of Covid deaths
B) no mass testing for flu

50k excess deaths in Dec 17 - Mar 18 during winter flu season.

Invalid comparison as no lockdowns in 17/18.

We had flu vaccines in 17/18.

We did not have them for Covid this winter flu season in reality.

We are led to believe we had no flu this year. So think of all the lives we could have saved if we reacted to flu like we did for Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 12, 2021, 09:08:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 08:37:41 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 12, 2021, 08:15:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 06:25:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2021, 06:10:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:49:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 12, 2021, 04:47:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:42:00 PM
Winter flu of 17/18 was a disaster that cost lives but nobody really cared or were bothered to save lives back then.

Perhaps you can say that it was. However, it went away in a couple of months so it is a totally different case to Covid. So stop yakking on about it.

Winter flu is an annual thing, it comes back every year and kills on an annual basis. We just don't seem to care enough to do anything that might minimise our reduce those figures.

Mortality including winter flu fell for 10 years in a row until Covid.
Last year mortality in the UK increased by 13%

20,000 people died between Jan 13 and Feb 9 in the UK.
Covid is far deadlier than winter flu.

Invalid comparison due to

A) arbitrary recording of Covid deaths
B) no mass testing for flu

50k excess deaths in Dec 17 - Mar 18 during winter flu season.

Invalid comparison as no lockdowns in 17/18.

We had flu vaccines in 17/18.

We did not have them for Covid this winter flu season in reality.

We are led to believe we had no flu this year. So think of all the lives we could have saved if we reacted to flu like we did for Covid.
Lies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 12, 2021, 09:18:05 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 08:36:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 12, 2021, 08:24:57 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 07:59:13 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 12, 2021, 07:36:25 PM
This guy sums it up well

https://twitter.com/paultreyvaud/status/1359799522449387526

he offers no alternative although i did get bored and might have missed it. was there one?

edit: sorry he suggests locking down all vulnerable and over 70s and provides his breakeven point for his restaurant. no holes to pick there!

Yeah, 55,000 came through the airports, but this is all tom dick and harry's Fault because they didn't wear a mask when they were buying their milk!

who has said benny? i certainly havent. just wondering if you seen my questions on your anti vacvine position. Genuinely interested in knowing more about that position.

the 55k though the airports are all tom dicks and harrys too i imagine.

Yes I seen them. I'm not sure what you want me to say on that. Will using a tv screen result in me needing glasses in the future? Does Alexa keep a record that I listened to 12 Johnny Cash songs last week? I can't see how it's similar.

I didn't say I was anti vaccine. You implied I was.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 09:25:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 12, 2021, 09:08:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 08:37:41 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 12, 2021, 08:15:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 06:25:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2021, 06:10:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:49:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 12, 2021, 04:47:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:42:00 PM
Winter flu of 17/18 was a disaster that cost lives but nobody really cared or were bothered to save lives back then.

Perhaps you can say that it was. However, it went away in a couple of months so it is a totally different case to Covid. So stop yakking on about it.

Winter flu is an annual thing, it comes back every year and kills on an annual basis. We just don't seem to care enough to do anything that might minimise our reduce those figures.

Mortality including winter flu fell for 10 years in a row until Covid.
Last year mortality in the UK increased by 13%

20,000 people died between Jan 13 and Feb 9 in the UK.
Covid is far deadlier than winter flu.

Invalid comparison due to

A) arbitrary recording of Covid deaths
B) no mass testing for flu

50k excess deaths in Dec 17 - Mar 18 during winter flu season.

Invalid comparison as no lockdowns in 17/18.

We had flu vaccines in 17/18.

We did not have them for Covid this winter flu season in reality.

We are led to believe we had no flu this year. So think of all the lives we could have saved if we reacted to flu like we did for Covid.
Lies.

Not a lie, how many people were fully vaccinated by the start of November?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 12, 2021, 09:33:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 09:25:02 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 12, 2021, 09:08:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 08:37:41 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 12, 2021, 08:15:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 06:25:07 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2021, 06:10:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:49:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 12, 2021, 04:47:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 12, 2021, 04:42:00 PM
Winter flu of 17/18 was a disaster that cost lives but nobody really cared or were bothered to save lives back then.

Perhaps you can say that it was. However, it went away in a couple of months so it is a totally different case to Covid. So stop yakking on about it.

Winter flu is an annual thing, it comes back every year and kills on an annual basis. We just don't seem to care enough to do anything that might minimise our reduce those figures.

Mortality including winter flu fell for 10 years in a row until Covid.
Last year mortality in the UK increased by 13%

20,000 people died between Jan 13 and Feb 9 in the UK.
Covid is far deadlier than winter flu.

Invalid comparison due to

A) arbitrary recording of Covid deaths
B) no mass testing for flu

50k excess deaths in Dec 17 - Mar 18 during winter flu season.

Invalid comparison as no lockdowns in 17/18.

We had flu vaccines in 17/18.

We did not have them for Covid this winter flu season in reality.

We are led to believe we had no flu this year. So think of all the lives we could have saved if we reacted to flu like we did for Covid.
Lies.

Not a lie, how many people were fully vaccinated by the start of November?

Sorry I thought that you were on about lockdowns.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 13, 2021, 08:03:27 AM
So milltown and the lads that know it all
What would your plans be going forward
Offer know plan u guys just lockdown
Numbers lower now than anytime from October
Let's hear your way out of this guys
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 08:40:06 AM
ive only seen 1 person here posturing like they know it all and he doesnt agree with milltown and the lads.

i offered this yesterday but am reconsidering the mutation aspect as even if we do the right things to help prevent mutations, other nations might not. i am looking at it where we currently are not not retrospectively. considering what we could/should have done better. and just to repeat i dont like lockdown but am yet to be convinced of a credible alternative.

i agree with zero covid but little or no appetite given our perceived closeness to opening up and vaccinations and obvious border issues.

im on the more cautious side i think, i dont believe we are ready to open up for 3 main reasons. 1. increased risk of mutations 2. i think we need the figure very low and not in the community. 3. our history of opening up early imo and its outcomes.

i think we can then (if we get to point 2) put in place better track and trace, better and wider testing with both the 15 min test and 24 hr lab test, we can also test high risk areas like meat plants etc. the extra capacity should be available from lower numbers and reduced testing of hosiptal staff if vaccines are successful. obviously we also need better controls at airports etc too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 08:41:29 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 13, 2021, 08:03:27 AM
So milltown and the lads that know it all
What would your plans be going forward
Offer know plan u guys just lockdown
Numbers lower now than anytime from October
Let's hear your way out of this guys
Do what New Zealand do. Stop fecking testing everyone and stop the media whipping up a frenzy about an illness that is no worse than a cold for 99% of people. Instead of blowing money on furlough and seiss and 350 a week to sit on your hole, increase hospital capacity, pay medical staff a decent wage, buy them the equipment they need. Protect the elderly and vulnerable until we can get them vaccinated. The North seems to be getting the vaccine rollout spot on, the clowns in the south should quit going with their begging bowl to the EU and look elsewhere for vaccines.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 08:47:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 08:41:29 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 13, 2021, 08:03:27 AM
So milltown and the lads that know it all
What would your plans be going forward
Offer know plan u guys just lockdown
Numbers lower now than anytime from October
Let's hear your way out of this guys
Do what New Zealand do. Stop fecking testing everyone and stop the media whipping up a frenzy about an illness that is no worse than a cold for 99% of people. Instead of blowing money on furlough and seiss and 350 a week to sit on your hole, increase hospital capacity, pay medical staff a decent wage, buy them the equipment they need. Protect the elderly and vulnerable until we can get them vaccinated. The North seems to be getting the vaccine rollout spot on, the clowns in the south should quit going with their begging bowl to the EU and look elsewhere for vaccines.

so lockdown but until we are at zero, that is what NZ did and tight border controls. there was little or no appetite for this last year and can you advise how we deal with the border issue. your opinion on covid/cold is wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 08:51:26 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 12, 2021, 09:18:05 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 08:36:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 12, 2021, 08:24:57 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 07:59:13 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 12, 2021, 07:36:25 PM
This guy sums it up well

https://twitter.com/paultreyvaud/status/1359799522449387526

he offers no alternative although i did get bored and might have missed it. was there one?

edit: sorry he suggests locking down all vulnerable and over 70s and provides his breakeven point for his restaurant. no holes to pick there!

Yeah, 55,000 came through the airports, but this is all tom dick and harry's Fault because they didn't wear a mask when they were buying their milk!

who has said benny? i certainly havent. just wondering if you seen my questions on your anti vacvine position. Genuinely interested in knowing more about that position.

the 55k though the airports are all tom dicks and harrys too i imagine.

Yes I seen them. I'm not sure what you want me to say on that. Will using a tv screen result in me needing glasses in the future? Does Alexa keep a record that I listened to 12 Johnny Cash songs last week? I can't see how it's similar.

I didn't say I was anti vaccine. You implied I was.

sorry i misread one of your posts and thought you said you wouldnt take the vaccine due to potential ong term effects.  will you take the vaccine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 09:28:26 AM
Feck it, just open up, let her rip right through and once herd immunity comes we'll be over the worst of it.

Quickest way, let the bars open first, followed by the sports, mainly indoor gyms, get a few concerts going also, fill the Odyssey.

After that get the offices back to full capacity and turn up the ventilation to the max.

Hospitals next, visitation back to normal, ah screw it increase the numbers due to lack of access before and nursing homes next.

Schools and colleges back to normal and full lectures and make sure it's done before paddy's day for the sake of the Holylands.

Free flights to the states to encourage the travel industry, let it get back on its feet, stuff it throw in free flights to Brazil and South Africa.

But, we should only allow people under 65 to do that, as it won't affect them really
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 13, 2021, 09:38:38 AM
As always milltown no answers
You post as if you know it all and you can't give a plan
Armagh agree stop tested people who are not sick
It's madness
PP sure we will wait on the government to sort out track and trace etc. It's only been 1 year.
Mark my words it's seasonal
Amazing stat from the south
2120 in hospital 30-1-2021
865 in hospital 12-2-2021
Save the NHS remember
3 weeks remember
Approaching 1 year
Face masks don't work
Face masks work
It's fine to go to Cheltenham as it's outdoors
Borders are fine
Travel home for Christmas
And much much more
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 13, 2021, 09:42:02 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 13, 2021, 09:38:38 AM
As always milltown no answers
You post as if you know it all and you can't give a plan
Armagh agree stop tested people who are not sick
It's madness
PP sure we will wait on the government to sort out track and trace etc. It's only been 1 year.
Mark my words it's seasonal
Amazing stat from the south
2120 in hospital 30-1-2021
865 in hospital 12-2-2021
Save the NHS remember
3 weeks remember
Approaching 1 year
Face masks don't work
Face masks work
It's fine to go to Cheltenham as it's outdoors
Borders are fine
Travel home for Christmas
And much much more
You can have Covid and not realise it, especially young people. That's one of the main reasons for contact tracing. People were infecting others without realizing it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 09:43:18 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 13, 2021, 09:38:38 AM
As always milltown no answers
You post as if you know it all and you can't give a plan
Armagh agree stop tested people who are not sick
It's madness
PP sure we will wait on the government to sort out track and trace etc. It's only been 1 year.
Mark my words it's seasonal
Amazing stat from the south
2120 in hospital 30-1-2021
865 in hospital 12-2-2021
Save the NHS remember
3 weeks remember
Approaching 1 year
Face masks don't work
Face masks work
It's fine to go to Cheltenham as it's outdoors
Borders are fine
Travel home for Christmas
And much much more

My whole post was full of answers to what we should do, open up and keep the 65+'s in.

Reading not your strong point?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 13, 2021, 09:56:28 AM
Why would you do that milltown
You have all the answers
It won't be long until the furlough has run its course
And Boris and the boys looking to open up after Easter

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 10:10:59 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 13, 2021, 09:38:38 AM
As always milltown no answers
You post as if you know it all and you can't give a plan
Armagh agree stop tested people who are not sick
It's madness
PP sure we will wait on the government to sort out track and trace etc. It's only been 1 year.
Mark my words it's seasonal
Amazing stat from the south
2120 in hospital 30-1-2021
865 in hospital 12-2-2021
Save the NHS remember
3 weeks remember
Approaching 1 year
Face masks don't work
Face masks work
It's fine to go to Cheltenham as it's outdoors
Borders are fine
Travel home for Christmas
And much much more

you test to see who is sick and who is capable of spreading covid. testing is only for those who show symtoms or close contacts at the moment and i think it should be proactive in some areas and widely used when we get numbers down and there is a covid outbreak.

seasonal its been present in both northern and soutnern hemisphere for almost 12 month. can you explain that? it could become seasonal maybe i dont know but evidence to date i have seen does not support that.

not really amazing its logical. we reduced contacts and as a result numbers dropped and i imagine vaccines are playing a part too. that is what reducing contacts does for a virus that spreads when there are more contacts.

if you can tell the future thats great i dont know anyone that can so there have been mistakes by government and everyone else just because you can travel doesnt mean you have to for example.

track.and trace can work.and work better with lower numbers and more aggressove testing when covid outbreaks. it also needs people to answer calls and turn up for testing i read in sept that 1000 a day werent turning up testing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 13, 2021, 10:13:13 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 08:40:06 AM
ive only seen 1 person here posturing like they know it all and he doesnt agree with milltown and the lads.

i offered this yesterday but am reconsidering the mutation aspect as even if we do the right things to help prevent mutations, other nations might not. i am looking at it where we currently are not not retrospectively. considering what we could/should have done better. and just to repeat i dont like lockdown but am yet to be convinced of a credible alternative.

i agree with zero covid but little or no appetite given our perceived closeness to opening up and vaccinations and obvious border issues.

im on the more cautious side i think, i dont believe we are ready to open up for 3 main reasons. 1. increased risk of mutations 2. i think we need the figure very low and not in the community. 3. our history of opening up early imo and its outcomes.

i think we can then (if we get to point 2) put in place better track and trace, better and wider testing with both the 15 min test and 24 hr lab test, we can also test high risk areas like meat plants etc. the extra capacity should be available from lower numbers and reduced testing of hosiptal staff if vaccines are successful. obviously we also need better controls at airports etc too.
The epidemiological reality is that we need Zero Covid or aggressive suppression

Instead of denying this, we'd be as well off genuinely planning for it - conventional wisdom has proven totally inadequate again and again

Anybody who discounts the possibility that mutations will emerge that render the current vaccines obsolete is not serious about  policy

If these mutations emerge, it will be because of the failed policies around the world of "living with Covid" - aka living with the house on fire
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 13, 2021, 11:53:38 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56050119

Matt Hancock lobbing one up for Angelo
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 13, 2021, 11:53:38 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56050119

Matt Hancock lobbing one up for Angelo

More of less an admission that we can't continue to live like this and that we will finally accept death from like all the other ailments that kill millions globally every year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 12:04:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 13, 2021, 11:53:38 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56050119

Matt Hancock lobbing one up for Angelo

More of less an admission that we can't continue to live like this and that we will finally accept death from like all the other ailments that kill millions globally every year.

was anyone suggesting any different?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 12:35:47 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 12:04:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 13, 2021, 11:53:38 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56050119

Matt Hancock lobbing one up for Angelo

More of less an admission that we can't continue to live like this and that we will finally accept death from like all the other ailments that kill millions globally every year.

was anyone suggesting any different?

Yes.

The people who have been justifying what we have been doing.

The slow learners will finally come around.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 01:30:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 12:35:47 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 12:04:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 13, 2021, 11:53:38 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56050119

Matt Hancock lobbing one up for Angelo

More of less an admission that we can't continue to live like this and that we will finally accept death from like all the other ailments that kill millions globally every year.

was anyone suggesting any different?

Yes.

The people who have been justifying what we have been doing.

The slow learners will finally come around.

no vaccine last year.. vaccine this year.. comparisons arent your forte.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 13, 2021, 01:32:34 PM
The minute we mention a reopen we get accused of risking lives
The chairman of the WORLD HEALTH ORGANISATION has just said that It is going to be with us for a long time
A slow reopening needs to start on March 5
Schools
Outdoors sports


2 weeks later
Gyms
Outdoor retail
Close contact services (hairdressers etc)

1 month later
Retail
Cafes

6 weeks later
Outdoor restaurant and pubs

2 months later (Early May) social distancing
Restaurants
Pubs

4 months later
Back to normal as possible


November December January
Face masks to be worn inside shops close contacts etc



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 01:34:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 01:30:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 12:35:47 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 12:04:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 13, 2021, 11:53:38 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56050119

Matt Hancock lobbing one up for Angelo

More of less an admission that we can't continue to live like this and that we will finally accept death from like all the other ailments that kill millions globally every year.

was anyone suggesting any different?

Yes.

The people who have been justifying what we have been doing.

The slow learners will finally come around.

no vaccine last year.. vaccine this year.. comparisons arent your forte.

More deaths in Jan 18 with a vaccine in play. Comparisons you ignore.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 01:36:39 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 08:47:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 08:41:29 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 13, 2021, 08:03:27 AM
So milltown and the lads that know it all
What would your plans be going forward
Offer know plan u guys just lockdown
Numbers lower now than anytime from October
Let's hear your way out of this guys
Do what New Zealand do. Stop fecking testing everyone and stop the media whipping up a frenzy about an illness that is no worse than a cold for 99% of people. Instead of blowing money on furlough and seiss and 350 a week to sit on your hole, increase hospital capacity, pay medical staff a decent wage, buy them the equipment they need. Protect the elderly and vulnerable until we can get them vaccinated. The North seems to be getting the vaccine rollout spot on, the clowns in the south should quit going with their begging bowl to the EU and look elsewhere for vaccines.

so lockdown but until we are at zero, that is what NZ did and tight border controls. there was little or no appetite for this last year and can you advise how we deal with the border issue. your opinion on covid/cold is wrong.
Jaysus no, I don't want the borders shut, just require negative test before you come in. I mean in terms of testing now- guarantee if you tested 1000 random New Zealanders now there'd be a fair few cases
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 01:39:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 09:28:26 AM
Feck it, just open up, let her rip right through and once herd immunity comes we'll be over the worst of it.

Quickest way, let the bars open first, followed by the sports, mainly indoor gyms, get a few concerts going also, fill the Odyssey.

After that get the offices back to full capacity and turn up the ventilation to the max.

Hospitals next, visitation back to normal, ah screw it increase the numbers due to lack of access before and nursing homes next.

Schools and colleges back to normal and full lectures and make sure it's done before paddy's day for the sake of the Holylands.

Free flights to the states to encourage the travel industry, let it get back on its feet, stuff it throw in free flights to Brazil and South Africa.

But, we should only allow people under 65 to do that, as it won't affect them really
The side effects of a lockdown are 100x worse than the effects of covid, especially for non vulnerable people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 01:44:47 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 01:36:39 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 08:47:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 08:41:29 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 13, 2021, 08:03:27 AM
So milltown and the lads that know it all
What would your plans be going forward
Offer know plan u guys just lockdown
Numbers lower now than anytime from October
Let's hear your way out of this guys
Do what New Zealand do. Stop fecking testing everyone and stop the media whipping up a frenzy about an illness that is no worse than a cold for 99% of people. Instead of blowing money on furlough and seiss and 350 a week to sit on your hole, increase hospital capacity, pay medical staff a decent wage, buy them the equipment they need. Protect the elderly and vulnerable until we can get them vaccinated. The North seems to be getting the vaccine rollout spot on, the clowns in the south should quit going with their begging bowl to the EU and look elsewhere for vaccines.

so lockdown but until we are at zero, that is what NZ did and tight border controls. there was little or no appetite for this last year and can you advise how we deal with the border issue. your opinion on covid/cold is wrong.
Jaysus no, I don't want the borders shut, just require negative test before you come in. I mean in terms of testing now- guarantee if you tested 1000 random New Zealanders now there'd be a fair few cases

not sure i agree with that statement... are they randomly testing in NZ? i imagine magbe in hospital setting. so how do you deal with north/south border ans reduce numbers to NZ levels?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 01:46:47 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 01:39:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 09:28:26 AM
Feck it, just open up, let her rip right through and once herd immunity comes we'll be over the worst of it.

Quickest way, let the bars open first, followed by the sports, mainly indoor gyms, get a few concerts going also, fill the Odyssey.

After that get the offices back to full capacity and turn up the ventilation to the max.

Hospitals next, visitation back to normal, ah screw it increase the numbers due to lack of access before and nursing homes next.

Schools and colleges back to normal and full lectures and make sure it's done before paddy's day for the sake of the Holylands.

Free flights to the states to encourage the travel industry, let it get back on its feet, stuff it throw in free flights to Brazil and South Africa.

But, we should only allow people under 65 to do that, as it won't affect them really
The side effects of a lockdown are 100x worse than the effects of covid, especially for non vulnerable people.

how do you separate them? because it is very easily spread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 01:49:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 01:34:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 01:30:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 12:35:47 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 12:04:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 13, 2021, 11:53:38 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56050119

Matt Hancock lobbing one up for Angelo

More of less an admission that we can't continue to live like this and that we will finally accept death from like all the other ailments that kill millions globally every year.

was anyone suggesting any different?

Yes.

The people who have been justifying what we have been doing.

The slow learners will finally come around.

no vaccine last year.. vaccine this year.. comparisons arent your forte.

More deaths in Jan 18 with a vaccine in play. Comparisons you ignore.

i havent ignored anything but again its not a good comparison.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 13, 2021, 01:56:14 PM
The effects and side effects of a let it rip situation are many times worse than the side effects of a lockdown

Built into a let it rip situation is massive numbers of deaths, bigger mental health problems, deeply negative effects on all other type of healthcare including cancer services - and inevitable return to lockdown three weeks later

There are a load of posters here living in a fantasy land of la la
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 13, 2021, 02:08:50 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 08:51:26 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 12, 2021, 09:18:05 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 08:36:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 12, 2021, 08:24:57 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 07:59:13 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 12, 2021, 07:36:25 PM
This guy sums it up well

https://twitter.com/paultreyvaud/status/1359799522449387526

he offers no alternative although i did get bored and might have missed it. was there one?

edit: sorry he suggests locking down all vulnerable and over 70s and provides his breakeven point for his restaurant. no holes to pick there!

Yeah, 55,000 came through the airports, but this is all tom dick and harry's Fault because they didn't wear a mask when they were buying their milk!

who has said benny? i certainly havent. just wondering if you seen my questions on your anti vacvine position. Genuinely interested in knowing more about that position.

the 55k though the airports are all tom dicks and harrys too i imagine.

Yes I seen them. I'm not sure what you want me to say on that. Will using a tv screen result in me needing glasses in the future? Does Alexa keep a record that I listened to 12 Johnny Cash songs last week? I can't see how it's similar.

I didn't say I was anti vaccine. You implied I was.

sorry i misread one of your posts and thought you said you wouldnt take the vaccine due to potential ong term effects.  will you take the vaccine?

I had listed some reasons why some people wouldn't get it (eg. Not in at risk category, have had virus and wasn't a big deal so don't feel they need it, don't know long term side effects, don't trust the pharmaceuticals/media etc etc).

But since you ask; no, I won't take the vaccine. But I know I will have to eventually. Otherwise I won't be able to do anything or go anywhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on February 13, 2021, 02:09:36 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 13, 2021, 01:56:14 PM
The effects and side effects of a let it rip situation are many times worse than the side effects of a lockdown

Built into a let it rip situation is massive numbers of deaths, bigger mental health problems, deeply negative effects on all other type of healthcare including cancer services - and inevitable return to lockdown three weeks later

There are a load of posters here living in a fantasy land of la la
I agree.  In our parish, a family recently let down the guard and attended a wake.  16 subsequently tested positive for Covid, 3 now dead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 13, 2021, 02:12:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 13, 2021, 01:56:14 PM
The effects and side effects of a let it rip situation are many times worse than the side effects of a lockdown

Built into a let it rip situation is massive numbers of deaths, bigger mental health problems, deeply negative effects on all other type of healthcare including cancer services - and inevitable return to lockdown three weeks later

There are a load of posters here living in a fantasy land of la la

There's no cure for ignorant stupidity sadly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 02:19:18 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 01:39:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 09:28:26 AM
Feck it, just open up, let her rip right through and once herd immunity comes we'll be over the worst of it.

Quickest way, let the bars open first, followed by the sports, mainly indoor gyms, get a few concerts going also, fill the Odyssey.

After that get the offices back to full capacity and turn up the ventilation to the max.

Hospitals next, visitation back to normal, ah screw it increase the numbers due to lack of access before and nursing homes next.

Schools and colleges back to normal and full lectures and make sure it's done before paddy's day for the sake of the Holylands.

Free flights to the states to encourage the travel industry, let it get back on its feet, stuff it throw in free flights to Brazil and South Africa.

But, we should only allow people under 65 to do that, as it won't affect them really
The side effects of a lockdown are 100x worse than the effects of covid, especially for non vulnerable people.

So just open it up, let's do it. Sure what is the worst that can happen?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 02:19:44 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 13, 2021, 02:08:50 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 08:51:26 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 12, 2021, 09:18:05 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 08:36:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 12, 2021, 08:24:57 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 12, 2021, 07:59:13 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 12, 2021, 07:36:25 PM
This guy sums it up well

https://twitter.com/paultreyvaud/status/1359799522449387526

he offers no alternative although i did get bored and might have missed it. was there one?

edit: sorry he suggests locking down all vulnerable and over 70s and provides his breakeven point for his restaurant. no holes to pick there!

Yeah, 55,000 came through the airports, but this is all tom dick and harry's Fault because they didn't wear a mask when they were buying their milk!

who has said benny? i certainly havent. just wondering if you seen my questions on your anti vacvine position. Genuinely interested in knowing more about that position.

the 55k though the airports are all tom dicks and harrys too i imagine.

Yes I seen them. I'm not sure what you want me to say on that. Will using a tv screen result in me needing glasses in the future? Does Alexa keep a record that I listened to 12 Johnny Cash songs last week? I can't see how it's similar.

I didn't say I was anti vaccine. You implied I was.

sorry i misread one of your posts and thought you said you wouldnt take the vaccine due to potential ong term effects.  will you take the vaccine?

I had listed some reasons why some people wouldn't get it (eg. Not in at risk category, have had virus and wasn't a big deal so don't feel they need it, don't know long term side effects, don't trust the pharmaceuticals/media etc etc).

But since you ask; no, I won't take the vaccine. But I know I will have to eventually. Otherwise I won't be able to do anything or go anywhere.

that was my mistake benny i read them as your reasons not to take the vaccine not that you were providing general rrasons why someone would not take it.

i could assume or imply your actual reason not to initially take the vaccine based on some other comments you made but if willing to provide them id be interested in what they are.

i respect peoples right not to take the vaccine but i myself will take it. Both my sister and mother who work in medical profession have taken it too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 13, 2021, 02:42:37 PM
Where has anyone said open al up?

Me thinks to many people on this board happy with the home comforts

Milltown and the boys don't want to take the slippers on just yet

Schools returning in England on March 8th. No excuse why Northern Ireland should not open on ye same date

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 13, 2021, 02:44:40 PM
Very good thread by Deepti Gurdasani

https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Am going to talk about my experience with media bias around discussions of zero COVID & how this is shaping our COVID strategy. I've encountered this again & again. Am also going to speak about why it's important we consider elimination from an evidence based perspective. Thread.

Yesterday I was contacted by a prominent BBC programme to speak about strategy for exit from lockdown & the role of scientists & politicians in defining this. I outlined elimination as a preferred strategy and provided factual arguments to support this on being challenged.

I was told this was 'interesting', but later told me the programme had moved in a different direction (not on zero covid). This has happened to me before. I watched the show- it was clear that the same issues were discussed *except* elimination was not considered at all.

I know the direction was the same also because the same person from govt who I was supposed to 'debate' with was on the programme too, but just debating with a different expert. This wasn't the first time this had happened with the same programme.

I did another (different) interview on the BBC last night, where I was told that elimination was not a possible option by the presenter - and similarly challenged about this again by a presenter on the LBC this morning. I will address the arguments around this later in the thread

There is media bias around discussing an elimination strategy- which is considered 'unrealistic' or not possible in the UK- where the rhetoric from govt & its advisors has been 'acceptable deaths' or 'living with it'. And this is hugely impacting conversations around UK strategy

These ideas are prominently platformed and discussed on the media, and discussions around elimination tend to be shut down. This is despite world-leading scientists, including @IndependentSage having repeatedly advocated for this approach, and this approach being tried & tested.

So let's have the discussion I was hoping to have yesterday on long-term strategy for COVID-19 in the UK. As I see it, there are two routes (not mutually exclusive).
1. Elimination through multi-pronged measures
2. Immunity through vaccination - accept 'tolerable' cases & deaths

Let's look at each of these. Let's look at 1. first - this strategy would require restrictions to be in place to bring cases down to very low levels (<10/100K) before easing restrictions. During this period, we would need to reform our broken Test, trace, isolate & support system

Duration of restrictions? From current levels, at an R=0.8, it would take 2-3 mnths to reach this target. If we improve current measures (better support for isolation, improved masking policies, mitigation in schools), this period could be reduced significantly, by reducing R.

What do we need to do during this period? Need to fix our test, trace, isolate system (put it in the hands of the NHS where its performance for complex cases has been excellent). Support with isolation. Improve safety measures in schools. Managed quarantine for 14 days at borders

Once we come out of lockdown, our test, trace & isolate system will need to rapidly identify any cases that arise, and take urgent measures to trace contacts, isolate, and stop spread into the community.

Additional protections e.g. mask use, distancing in some settings will continue until we have no outbreaks for a period of time, when life can return to normal. We will continue vaccinating people so they are protected in case community transmission occurs.

We will need continued border quarantine restrictions, like NZ & Australia which have been quite effective in preventing re-introduction of infection. When this does occur, it will need a quick & aggressive response.

This approach is associated with generally lower uncertainty because:
1. We've seen this be achieved in other countries.
2. It will require a defined duration of measures, but life will return to near-normal.
3. Less uncertainty around vaccine strategy
e.g. we wouldn't have to consider deviations from vaccine protocol, as vaccines are a pre-emptive measure, rather than carrying out vaccine roll-out in the midst of an overwhelmed health system.
4. Less uncertainty around evolution of new variants, and impact on vaccine efficacy

Let's look at 2. now - trying to achieve herd immunity or at least less severe illness in the majority of the population through vaccination.

While vaccines are central to any pandemic strategy, there are many unknowns with an approach that focuses solely or mostly on vaccines.

1. While vaccines confer protection against severe disease, & symptomatic infection, we don't know the extent to which they reduce transmission.
2. Even with full uptake of vaccines in eligible (not trialled in children yet), no guarantee of reaching the herd immunity threshold
3. The virus may be a moving target with the rapid evolution we are seeing at the moment, with mutations that make vaccines less effective, at least in preventing symptomatic infection. This means we may never reach elimination with vaccines.
4. Even without escape mutations, just with more transmissible strains, the herd immunity threshold (the proportion of the population that needs to be vaccinated to bring R below 1) will be higher. More transmissible new variants could push this even further.
5. We don't know the duration of immunity conferred by vaccination, which may mean frequent boosters are needed to top this up, or against new variants - we will need a high uptake of these across the population
6. We don't know the impact of vaccination in preventing long COVID
7. There is significant vaccine hesitancy in groups who are most at risk for many legitimate reasons, including structural discrimination which is not just historic but has continued throughout the pandemic. While uptake has been high in vulnerable groups, this may not generalise

Worth remembering Manaus where the majority of the population was exposed to virus, but we are still seeing surges of cases that are overwhelming healthcare capacity, with R well above 1. This could be the impact of a new variant escaping immune responses to previous variants

Or it could mean a higher herd immunity threshold than we anticipated, or that the duration of immunity conferred by infection is lower than we previously thought. Either way, it's clear that achieving elimination through this approach may not be as straightforward as we think.

Even if we could achieve herd immunity through vaccination, what is the cost of transmission after easing lockdown going to be, while only part of the population (albeit some of the most vulnerable) are vaccinated?

While it may seem counterintuitive, the cost is still huge.

A SAGE/Imperial model which examined release of restrictions gradually from March alongside vaccine roll out showed that even in the most optimistic scenario, this could lead to between 82,000 and 150,000 deaths. Model here:
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/upl...

How is this possible?

Many reasons.
1. A single dose of vaccines in the over 70s will not provide absolute protection even for them.
2. Many deaths occur in people under 70 yrs
3. Roll-out and immunity post-roll out take time to develop

Exponential rises in cases can rapidly lead to high numbers of deaths even while vaccine roll-out continues.

While the model focuses on deaths, the impact on long COVID numbers would also be large - given case numbers & transmission would be high.

Further, high levels of transmission continuing alongside vaccination mean greater potential for virus adaptation. Escape mutations have arisen in the UK, even when population-wide immunity wasn't at high levels. With more selection pressure we should expect more adaptation.

We currently have at least three different variants with the E484K escape mutation circulating within the UK. We've been told that these are not likely to become dominant any time soon- but if these escape vaccines better than the original B117, they may become more frequent.

While we may be able to update vaccines, this will take time, and as we've seen from the data, high levels of transmission even over short periods of time with a partially protected population can have huge consequences.

And there are no guarantees will we be able to keep up with virus evolution. It's possible by the time we have vaccines against these variants, more may have evolved, if we allow adaptation to continue (by allowing high levels of transmission to continue).

So what about the 'downsides' of elimination that we keep hearing about?

'But we will need to have travel restrictions indefinitely'

Response: But we have travel restrictions in place now - and will likely need them to be in place for a long time because of new variants. Not least because we have new variants within the UK, that many countries across the world are worried about importing.

It is likely we will need strict managed quarantines, but we will likely need these even in scenario 2.

And we're an island, so in some ways easier

'We can't do this - the UK is a travel hub- we can't have restrictions for so long'

Response: We've been in restrictions and in an out of lockdowns for almost a year. This will be much shorter, and the long-term impact on the economy much lower - with greater long-term certainty.

'But population density!'
Many countries across the world with greater population density than ours have achieved this - Taiwan, Vietnam.

'But we're culturally different'
Australia, New Zealand?

'But it would never work'
Why? It's clearly worked in other parts of the world

I think we need an honest, transparent, and factual discussion about this in the UK. These options aren't mutually exclusive, but one provides much more certainty, is tried & tested & has many advantages.

We should at the very least consider it & not silence discussions on it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 02:46:42 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 13, 2021, 02:42:37 PM
Where has anyone said open al up?

Me thinks to many people on this board happy with the home comforts

Milltown and the boys don't want to take the slippers on just yet

Schools returning in England on March 8th. No excuse why Northern Ireland should not open on ye same date

I'm saying open it up, we've done everything else so let's just open it up. It might work
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 13, 2021, 02:48:44 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 13, 2021, 02:42:37 PM
Where has anyone said open al up?

Me thinks to many people on this board happy with the home comforts

Milltown and the boys don't want to take the slippers on just yet

Schools returning in England on March 8th. No excuse why Northern Ireland should not open on ye same date
Ireland went to Level 3 from December 1st

In practice this was let it rip

It was just much less of a let it rip scenario than you'd have with full opening

But it was still let it rip
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 04:13:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 02:19:18 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 01:39:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 09:28:26 AM
Feck it, just open up, let her rip right through and once herd immunity comes we'll be over the worst of it.

Quickest way, let the bars open first, followed by the sports, mainly indoor gyms, get a few concerts going also, fill the Odyssey.

After that get the offices back to full capacity and turn up the ventilation to the max.

Hospitals next, visitation back to normal, ah screw it increase the numbers due to lack of access before and nursing homes next.

Schools and colleges back to normal and full lectures and make sure it's done before paddy's day for the sake of the Holylands.

Free flights to the states to encourage the travel industry, let it get back on its feet, stuff it throw in free flights to Brazil and South Africa.

But, we should only allow people under 65 to do that, as it won't affect them really
The side effects of a lockdown are 100x worse than the effects of covid, especially for non vulnerable people.

So just open it up, let's do it. Sure what is the worst that can happen?
couldnt be worse than this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 13, 2021, 04:20:21 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 04:13:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 02:19:18 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 01:39:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 09:28:26 AM
Feck it, just open up, let her rip right through and once herd immunity comes we'll be over the worst of it.

Quickest way, let the bars open first, followed by the sports, mainly indoor gyms, get a few concerts going also, fill the Odyssey.

After that get the offices back to full capacity and turn up the ventilation to the max.

Hospitals next, visitation back to normal, ah screw it increase the numbers due to lack of access before and nursing homes next.

Schools and colleges back to normal and full lectures and make sure it's done before paddy's day for the sake of the Holylands.

Free flights to the states to encourage the travel industry, let it get back on its feet, stuff it throw in free flights to Brazil and South Africa.

But, we should only allow people under 65 to do that, as it won't affect them really
The side effects of a lockdown are 100x worse than the effects of covid, especially for non vulnerable people.

So just open it up, let's do it. Sure what is the worst that can happen?
couldnt be worse than this

I can't tell if this is a piss take or not anymore given some on the nonsense posted against lockdowns on this thread
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 13, 2021, 04:24:32 PM
Maybe the Mod could lock the thread for a few days to give us all a break?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 04:44:13 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 04:13:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 02:19:18 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 01:39:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 09:28:26 AM
Feck it, just open up, let her rip right through and once herd immunity comes we'll be over the worst of it.

Quickest way, let the bars open first, followed by the sports, mainly indoor gyms, get a few concerts going also, fill the Odyssey.

After that get the offices back to full capacity and turn up the ventilation to the max.

Hospitals next, visitation back to normal, ah screw it increase the numbers due to lack of access before and nursing homes next.

Schools and colleges back to normal and full lectures and make sure it's done before paddy's day for the sake of the Holylands.

Free flights to the states to encourage the travel industry, let it get back on its feet, stuff it throw in free flights to Brazil and South Africa.

But, we should only allow people under 65 to do that, as it won't affect them really
The side effects of a lockdown are 100x worse than the effects of covid, especially for non vulnerable people.

So just open it up, let's do it. Sure what is the worst that can happen?
couldnt be worse than this

I don't think it could in fairness. if there was bigger hospitals and more staff we could just go at it. Bricklayers could head in and just build bigger walls around the nursing homes, possible armed guards at over 65's houses just to ensure they keep curfew. It makes so much sense now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 04:44:25 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 13, 2021, 04:20:21 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 04:13:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 02:19:18 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 01:39:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 09:28:26 AM
Feck it, just open up, let her rip right through and once herd immunity comes we'll be over the worst of it.

Quickest way, let the bars open first, followed by the sports, mainly indoor gyms, get a few concerts going also, fill the Odyssey.

After that get the offices back to full capacity and turn up the ventilation to the max.

Hospitals next, visitation back to normal, ah screw it increase the numbers due to lack of access before and nursing homes next.

Schools and colleges back to normal and full lectures and make sure it's done before paddy's day for the sake of the Holylands.

Free flights to the states to encourage the travel industry, let it get back on its feet, stuff it throw in free flights to Brazil and South Africa.

But, we should only allow people under 65 to do that, as it won't affect them really
The side effects of a lockdown are 100x worse than the effects of covid, especially for non vulnerable people.

So just open it up, let's do it. Sure what is the worst that can happen?
couldnt be worse than this

I can't tell if this is a piss take or not anymore given some on the nonsense posted against lockdowns on this thread
So you think they're great?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 04:52:04 PM
They're rubbish, had we just carried on we'd have had low cases, barely any deaths and a better economy ffs.. so stupid of the government trying to ruin everything, honestly once this carry on is over they should be shot!

As long as we'd be under the plague of 17/18 we'd have coped
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 13, 2021, 05:22:32 PM
4 of the secret 6 experts seem to be
Angela, Prof Smurf, Armagh 18 and Bennycake.
Now if we could convince the WHO and 180 or whatever Governments to read GAAboard Covid would be gone by St Patrick's Day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 13, 2021, 05:26:45 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 04:44:25 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 13, 2021, 04:20:21 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 04:13:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 02:19:18 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 01:39:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 09:28:26 AM
Feck it, just open up, let her rip right through and once herd immunity comes we'll be over the worst of it.

Quickest way, let the bars open first, followed by the sports, mainly indoor gyms, get a few concerts going also, fill the Odyssey.

After that get the offices back to full capacity and turn up the ventilation to the max.

Hospitals next, visitation back to normal, ah screw it increase the numbers due to lack of access before and nursing homes next.

Schools and colleges back to normal and full lectures and make sure it's done before paddy's day for the sake of the Holylands.

Free flights to the states to encourage the travel industry, let it get back on its feet, stuff it throw in free flights to Brazil and South Africa.

But, we should only allow people under 65 to do that, as it won't affect them really
The side effects of a lockdown are 100x worse than the effects of covid, especially for non vulnerable people.

So just open it up, let's do it. Sure what is the worst that can happen?
couldnt be worse than this

I can't tell if this is a piss take or not anymore given some on the nonsense posted against lockdowns on this thread
So you think they're great?

I don't think lockdowns are great, but I do know things would be much worse without them.

Covid is completely different to dealing with the flu. Also despite what some people think Covid is not seasonal like the flu
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 05:32:20 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 13, 2021, 05:26:45 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 04:44:25 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 13, 2021, 04:20:21 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 04:13:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 02:19:18 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 01:39:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 09:28:26 AM
Feck it, just open up, let her rip right through and once herd immunity comes we'll be over the worst of it.

Quickest way, let the bars open first, followed by the sports, mainly indoor gyms, get a few concerts going also, fill the Odyssey.

After that get the offices back to full capacity and turn up the ventilation to the max.

Hospitals next, visitation back to normal, ah screw it increase the numbers due to lack of access before and nursing homes next.

Schools and colleges back to normal and full lectures and make sure it's done before paddy's day for the sake of the Holylands.

Free flights to the states to encourage the travel industry, let it get back on its feet, stuff it throw in free flights to Brazil and South Africa.

But, we should only allow people under 65 to do that, as it won't affect them really
The side effects of a lockdown are 100x worse than the effects of covid, especially for non vulnerable people.

So just open it up, let's do it. Sure what is the worst that can happen?
couldnt be worse than this

I can't tell if this is a piss take or not anymore given some on the nonsense posted against lockdowns on this thread
So you think they're great?

I don't think lockdowns are great, but I do know things would be much worse without them.

Covid is completely different to dealing with the flu. Also despite what some people think Covid is not seasonal like the flu

Jesus Christ.

The utter stupidity of that post.

https://www.scienceboard.net/index.aspx?sec=ser&sub=def&pag=dis&ItemID=2055

January 28, 2021 -- As the world enters year two of the COVID-19 pandemic, new research suggests that seasonality, including temperature and location, could be a factor in the spread of infections with the SARS-CoV-2 virus, according to an analysis published in Evolutionary Bioinformatics on January 26.

Many viral infections are seasonal in nature, including the influenza virus, which makes an appearance every winter. In the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic, researchers and public health officials suggested that SARS-CoV-2 might behave like other endemic coronaviruses, peaking in the fall and winter seasons.

However, this claim was lacking scientific evidence, especially on the global scale. This question provided the impetus for researchers at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign to conduct work that would fill this specific knowledge gap.

Taking into consideration all the similarities with influenza infection, the team investigated if COVID-19 infection is seasonal. They hypothesized that COVID-19 epidemiology and genetic makeup are affected by the seasonality phenomenon. For instance, they postulated that high temperatures and humidity would negatively affect viral transmission, as well as the resulting cases and death rates.

Does temperature and location affect COVID-19 disease?

First, the researchers downloaded relevant epidemiological data (disease incidence, mortality, recovery cases, active cases, testing rate, and hospitalization) from 221 countries, along with their latitude, longitude, and average temperature. They used Pearson correlation analyses to test if temperature and geographic location were associated with population-normalized data of incidence, mortality, recovery of patients, active cases, and testing rate in each country.

"One conclusion is that the disease may be seasonal, like the flu. This is very relevant to what we should expect from now on after the vaccine controls these first waves of COVID-19," said senior author Gustavo Caetano-Anollés, PhD, professor in the department of crop sciences, affiliate of the Carl R. Woese Institute for Genomic Biology at Illinois, in a statement.

"Indeed, our worldwide epidemiological analysis showed a statistically significant correlation between temperature and incidence, mortality, recovery cases, and active cases," noted Caetano-Anollés. "The same tendency was found with latitude, but not with longitude, as we expected."

Do viral mutations affect COVID-19 disease?

The team also sought to establish a link between temperature-location effects with genomic changes of SARS-CoV-2 to determine if temperature-related epidemiological effects are controlled by the virus in its interaction with the host. For this analysis, genomic change, and genomic change per unit time were computed from an alignment of 55, 453 SARS-CoV-2 genome sequences to determine if there were significant statistical correlations with temperatures and geographic coordinates of the various countries. Mutation accumulation and rates were calculated for the entire genome and for specific regions known for significant pathways of mutational change.

Mutational changes were based on results from a parallel study of 15,342 indexed virus genome sequences that revealed novel pathways of mutational change during the early stages of the COVID-19 pandemic. The analysis predicted mutational shift from spike and replication proteins to other regions of the proteome, including the nucleocapsid protein and the viroporin 3a protein. A lack of significant correlations indicates that mutational changes in the virus genomic makeup appear unrelated to the temperature modulation of the COVID-19 disease.

"Our results suggest the virus is changing at its own pace, and mutations are affected by factors other than temperature or latitude," said Caetano-Anollés. "We don't know exactly what those factors are, but we can now say seasonal effects are independent of the genetic makeup of the virus."

Host immune system and seasonality of COVID-19

The researchers noted that the host immune system could be in part responsible for the pattern of seasonality. While unconfirmed, some studies suggest that high environmental temperatures, host nutritional status, and vitamin D levels play a crucial role in the regulation of adaptive immune responses following respiratory viral infection, as is the case with influenza. The researchers recommend that the interaction of the environment and SARS-CoV-2 epidemiological data merits further investigation.

"We know the flu is seasonal, and that we get a break during the summer. That gives us a chance to build the flu vaccine for the following fall," explained Caetano-Anollés. "When we are still in the midst of a raging pandemic, that break is nonexistent. Perhaps learning how to boost our immune system could help combat the disease as we struggle to catch up with the ever-changing coronavirus."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 13, 2021, 05:39:00 PM
I have Angelo on mute for obvious reasons, but out of curiosity I clicked on his link that he claims proves Covid is seasonal. Their early findings from the link he referenced:

One conclusion is that the disease may be seasonal, like the flu

There you have it folks. Clear and definitive proof Covid is seasonal

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 05:46:09 PM
March April and May of last year, September through to Feb is just one season. So yes it's completely seasonal, the numbers were poor during that other season.

Only 2 seasons per year. This was changed by Prof Smurphy and Angelo
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 13, 2021, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 01:34:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 01:30:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 12:35:47 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 12:04:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 13, 2021, 11:53:38 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56050119

Matt Hancock lobbing one up for Angelo

More of less an admission that we can't continue to live like this and that we will finally accept death from like all the other ailments that kill millions globally every year.

was anyone suggesting any different?

Yes.

The people who have been justifying what we have been doing.

The slow learners will finally come around.

no vaccine last year.. vaccine this year.. comparisons arent your forte.

More deaths in Jan 18 with a vaccine in play. Comparisons you ignore.
Vaccine was severely impaired that year. Part of the reason for the higher than normal numbers along with colder than normal winter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 05:56:00 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 13, 2021, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 01:34:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 01:30:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 12:35:47 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 12:04:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 13, 2021, 11:53:38 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56050119

Matt Hancock lobbing one up for Angelo

More of less an admission that we can't continue to live like this and that we will finally accept death from like all the other ailments that kill millions globally every year.

was anyone suggesting any different?

Yes.

The people who have been justifying what we have been doing.

The slow learners will finally come around.

no vaccine last year.. vaccine this year.. comparisons arent your forte.

More deaths in Jan 18 with a vaccine in play. Comparisons you ignore.
Vaccine was severely impaired that year. Part of the reason for the higher than normal numbers along with colder than normal winter.

We have higher rates of death at winter every year.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 13, 2021, 06:04:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 05:56:00 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 13, 2021, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 01:34:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 01:30:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 12:35:47 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 12:04:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 13, 2021, 11:53:38 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56050119

Matt Hancock lobbing one up for Angelo

More of less an admission that we can't continue to live like this and that we will finally accept death from like all the other ailments that kill millions globally every year.

was anyone suggesting any different?

Yes.

The people who have been justifying what we have been doing.

The slow learners will finally come around.

no vaccine last year.. vaccine this year.. comparisons arent your forte.

More deaths in Jan 18 with a vaccine in play. Comparisons you ignore.
Vaccine was severely impaired that year. Part of the reason for the higher than normal numbers along with colder than normal winter.

We have higher rates of death at winter every year.

We do. Every year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 06:25:26 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 13, 2021, 06:04:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 05:56:00 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 13, 2021, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 01:34:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 01:30:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 12:35:47 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 12:04:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 13, 2021, 11:53:38 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56050119

Matt Hancock lobbing one up for Angelo

More of less an admission that we can't continue to live like this and that we will finally accept death from like all the other ailments that kill millions globally every year.

was anyone suggesting any different?

Yes.

The people who have been justifying what we have been doing.

The slow learners will finally come around.

no vaccine last year.. vaccine this year.. comparisons arent your forte.

More deaths in Jan 18 with a vaccine in play. Comparisons you ignore.
Vaccine was severely impaired that year. Part of the reason for the higher than normal numbers along with colder than normal winter.

We have higher rates of death at winter every year.

We do. Every year.

Precisely. So why are we happy to accept that?

Why was it only when Covid came around we decided to save lives?

The health experts wants us to believe there was no flu this winter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 07:09:36 PM
Everyone is happy we have these deaths every year
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on February 13, 2021, 08:19:04 PM
It has no boundaries , this covid is a relentless baxtard.

(https://static.rogerebert.com/uploads/blog_post/primary_image/features/farewell-to-the-video-store/Covid_killed_FV.jpg)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 09:16:44 PM
I notice that none of the pro lockdowners were able to explain India for me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 09:23:55 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 09:16:44 PM
I notice that none of the pro lockdowners were able to explain India for me.

its a country in south asia with a pop. of over 1.3bn. It is the second-most populous country, the seventh-largest country by land area, and the most populous democracy in the world. Bounded by the Indian Ocean on the south, the Arabian Sea on the southwest, and the Bay of Bengal on the southeast, it shares land borders with Pakistan to the west;[f] China, Nepal, and Bhutan to the north; and Bangladesh and Myanmar to the east. In the Indian Ocean, India is in the vicinity of Sri Lanka and the Maldives; its Andaman and Nicobar Islands share a maritime border with Thailand and Indonesia.

there is a lot of information available about india
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 09:33:38 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 09:23:55 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 09:16:44 PM
I notice that none of the pro lockdowners were able to explain India for me.

its a country in south asia with a pop. of over 1.3bn. It is the second-most populous country, the seventh-largest country by land area, and the most populous democracy in the world. Bounded by the Indian Ocean on the south, the Arabian Sea on the southwest, and the Bay of Bengal on the southeast, it shares land borders with Pakistan to the west;[f] China, Nepal, and Bhutan to the north; and Bangladesh and Myanmar to the east. In the Indian Ocean, India is in the vicinity of Sri Lanka and the Maldives; its Andaman and Nicobar Islands share a maritime border with Thailand and Indonesia.

there is a lot of information available about india

So you don't want to discuss how India is faring a lot better with a massive population and no real lockdown or excessive restrictions since around June?

There must be a reason?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 09:42:51 PM
no i dont and i dont want to chat about pakistan, sri lanka, germany, spain, Italy to name a few.

i did do a quick google search when you first mentioned it, there was muliple articles and theories from what i saw. why dont you just cherry pick the one that suits your agenda, keep posting it and ignore all others...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 13, 2021, 10:03:55 PM
Doesn't suit your narrative to talk about India Padraig

Typical

It doesn't suit your opinion so blank it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 10:08:23 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 13, 2021, 10:03:55 PM
Doesn't suit your narrative to talk about India Padraig

Typical

It doesn't suit your opinion so blank it

i dont know if it does or doesnt. there are multiple articles n theories... i dont have time to look into it.

i am smart enough to know that hositpals were overrun in italy and came close here a couple of times when we opened up.

what do you know about india?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 10:14:43 PM
What we know about India is that they haven't had the hugely restrictive lockdowns we have had for the past 7/8 months.

We know that India is a country with huge densely populated cities and their death rate is very, very low relative to their population from Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 10:18:27 PM
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/8/b/8b69b6392ed1ea0cca37a7436a77e4cb8156a8a9.png)

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/0/9/095b55100f8a9d48088aa1e247a53e0097cf55ce.png)

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/b/9/b9f6562dfef06337f06c7063cf2582efd4eb8326.png)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 13, 2021, 10:21:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 06:25:26 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 13, 2021, 06:04:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 05:56:00 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 13, 2021, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 01:34:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 01:30:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 12:35:47 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 12:04:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 13, 2021, 11:53:38 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56050119

Matt Hancock lobbing one up for Angelo

More of less an admission that we can't continue to live like this and that we will finally accept death from like all the other ailments that kill millions globally every year.

was anyone suggesting any different?

Yes.

The people who have been justifying what we have been doing.

The slow learners will finally come around.

no vaccine last year.. vaccine this year.. comparisons arent your forte.

More deaths in Jan 18 with a vaccine in play. Comparisons you ignore.
Vaccine was severely impaired that year. Part of the reason for the higher than normal numbers along with colder than normal winter.

We have higher rates of death at winter every year.

We do. Every year.

Precisely. So why are we happy to accept that?

Why was it only when Covid came around we decided to save lives?

The health experts wants us to believe there was no flu this winter.

It wasn't just when Covid came. We try and save lives every year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 10:22:47 PM
Angelo now picking a country that sits him, America? No, India? Yes you're a gas, you don't give a f**k
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 13, 2021, 10:26:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 09:16:44 PM
I notice that none of the pro lockdowners were able to explain India for me.
Actually Sam McConkey explained the situation in India very well on radio the other week

They have a very young population and in a perverse way, the poor standards of hygiene and high levels of disease that prevail help them as regards immunity

They also have a deeply fascist government who have no problem lying, and statistics there are extremely unreliable and the death toll is almost certainly massively undercounted
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 13, 2021, 10:28:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2021, 10:22:47 PM
Angelo now picking a country that sits him, America? No, India? Yes you're a gas, you don't give a f**k
He takes his forum persona of knowing literally everything and never being wrong about anything extremely seriously

So seriously that one has to presume it's the only thing he has in his life
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 13, 2021, 10:34:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 13, 2021, 10:26:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 09:16:44 PM
I notice that none of the pro lockdowners were able to explain India for me.
Actually Sam McConkey explained the situation in India very well on radio the other week

They have a very young population and in a perverse way, the poor standards of hygiene and high levels of disease that prevail help them as regards immunity

They also have a deeply fascist government who have no problem lying, and statistics there are extremely unreliable and the death toll is almost certainly massively undercounted

After doing some Google searching myself I found a story of a BBC journalist dealing with fake Covid stories who tracked down the creator of a video (based in India) on the internet who claims inhaling steam stops you getting covid.

This has been rubbished by the medical community, but this could just be big pharma protecting their profits
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 13, 2021, 10:40:27 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 13, 2021, 10:34:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 13, 2021, 10:26:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 09:16:44 PM
I notice that none of the pro lockdowners were able to explain India for me.
Actually Sam McConkey explained the situation in India very well on radio the other week

They have a very young population and in a perverse way, the poor standards of hygiene and high levels of disease that prevail help them as regards immunity

They also have a deeply fascist government who have no problem lying, and statistics there are extremely unreliable and the death toll is almost certainly massively undercounted

After doing some Google searching myself I found a story of a BBC journalist dealing with fake Covid stories who tracked down the creator of a video (based in India) on the internet who claims inhaling steam stops you getting covid.

This has been rubbished by the medical community, but this could just be big pharma protecting their profits
If that was the case one would just have to inhale the posts of certain poster here to become immune to Covid, because they're a big steaming pile of you know what
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 13, 2021, 10:43:37 PM
the article i started got into the genetics of the indian population, way out of my comfort zone in terms of understanding so i left it there
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 07:37:41 AM
See Philly Mc is a facist now too for daring to question the lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 08:50:16 AM
So none of the pro lockdowners are able to explain India


When you're quoting a guy like McConkey who has got just about everything wrong on the virus then you are either very naive or very stupid.

The data is there on India, some choose not to believe but they simply cannot explain it. Doesn't fit into their narrative of fear.

Let's see Sid deal with hard issues from his two Dublin heroes now. The forum's Eoghan Harris is due another flip flop shortly anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 09:43:05 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 08:50:16 AM
So none of the pro lockdowners are able to explain India


When you're quoting a guy like McConkey who has got just about everything wrong on the virus then you are either very naive or very stupid.

The data is there on India, some choose not to believe but they simply cannot explain it. Doesn't fit into their narrative of fear.

Let's see Sid deal with hard issues from his two Dublin heroes now. The forum's Eoghan Harris is due another flip flop shortly anyway.

Can you break it down for us, your history of interpreting data is legendary

Also what has it got to do with Ireland? They are your words btw
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 14, 2021, 09:55:59 AM
I would say the figures in India are massively under-reported. If there was 1 million dead I wouldn't be surprised. There are 10s of millions living in poverty in rural India so the likelihood of them even getting as far as a hospital let alone a proper cause of death is slim.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 14, 2021, 09:58:45 AM
If you mention reopening you are accused of wanting the elderly to die

Reopening in a slow way is needed

People have had enough whilst the government have done very little

Track and trace
Health service
Schools
PPE
Eat out help out
A jolly Christmas
And much much more they have messed up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:34:57 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 14, 2021, 09:58:45 AM
If you mention reopening you are accused of wanting the elderly to die

Reopening in a slow way is needed

People have had enough whilst the government have done very little

Track and trace
Health service
Schools
PPE
Eat out help out
A jolly Christmas
And much much more they have messed up

what happened at the end of the last 3 lockdowns?  when people were calling for things to slowly open up... we ended up back in lockdowns because hospitals started to get overrun..

i would be more cautious on the timeline for opening up as i do to want to be in lockdown again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 10:35:18 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 14, 2021, 09:55:59 AM
I would say the figures in India are massively under-reported. If there was 1 million dead I wouldn't be surprised. There are 10s of millions living in poverty in rural India so the likelihood of them even getting as far as a hospital let alone a proper cause of death is slim.

What have you to support that?

Unfounded opinions?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 10:40:40 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 10:35:18 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 14, 2021, 09:55:59 AM
I would say the figures in India are massively under-reported. If there was 1 million dead I wouldn't be surprised. There are 10s of millions living in poverty in rural India so the likelihood of them even getting as far as a hospital let alone a proper cause of death is slim.

What have you to support that?

Unfounded opinions?

The BBC is fake news, presumbly

India coronavirus: How a group of volunteers 'exposed' hidden Covid-19 deaths

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-54985981

What have you got to support your assertion that there has been a massive spike in suicide?

Zilch, nothing, nada

You're like Lionel Hutz on cocaine  ;D


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 10:41:24 AM
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-12-09/is-indias-covid-19-death-rate-five-times-higher-than-official-figures-suggest
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 10:42:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 10:41:24 AM
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-12-09/is-indias-covid-19-death-rate-five-times-higher-than-official-figures-suggest

"Fake news!"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:34:57 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 14, 2021, 09:58:45 AM
If you mention reopening you are accused of wanting the elderly to die

Reopening in a slow way is needed

People have had enough whilst the government have done very little

Track and trace
Health service
Schools
PPE
Eat out help out
A jolly Christmas
And much much more they have messed up

what happened at the end of the last 3 lockdowns?  when people were calling for things to slowly open up... we ended up back in lockdowns because hospitals started to get overrun..

i would be more cautious on the timeline for opening up as i do to want to be in lockdown again.
This needs to be the last lockdown. Open up slowly, stop testing healthy people and get as many vaccinated as possible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 10:46:00 AM
I mean one click on the search engine and it throws up multiple answers...

Whether these are FACTS or not, I don't know, as Angelo only state's facts, or deals with facts so until we get all the facts then the fact of the matter is we can't believe all the facts presented as being actually fact.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 10:46:42 AM
Who needs evidence to make wild claims tat something has happened?!

Evidence is the enemy!

https://www.thejournal.ie/suicide-ireland-august-claim-33-deaths-factcheck-5192698-Sep2020/

It isn't impossible that 33 deaths by suicide happened in Ireland last week.

However, taking past trends into consideration, it would be more likely that the figure was lower.

One version of the claim originally said that there were 33 deaths by suicide over the last month, before the poster said two days afterwards that it was 33 in a week.

The suggestion that 33 deaths by suicide took place over the period of a month would be more in line with monthly averages in previous years.

However, there is no available evidence that can verify either version of the claim.

Deaths are not pronounced as suicides by doctors or by the HSE.

It is a legal determination made by coroners rather than a medical one and takes time to be investigated, processed, and recorded – and as one coroner told us, making these claims on social media is "speculation at most and hearsay at worst".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:49:47 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:34:57 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 14, 2021, 09:58:45 AM
If you mention reopening you are accused of wanting the elderly to die

Reopening in a slow way is needed

People have had enough whilst the government have done very little

Track and trace
Health service
Schools
PPE
Eat out help out
A jolly Christmas
And much much more they have messed up

what happened at the end of the last 3 lockdowns?  when people were calling for things to slowly open up... we ended up back in lockdowns because hospitals started to get overrun..

i would be more cautious on the timeline for opening up as i do to want to be in lockdown again.
This needs to be the last lockdown. Open up slowly, stop testing healthy people and get as many vaccinated as possible.

we opened up slowly previously and it didnt work. why risk opening up too early again, there are still over 1000 cases in the south. i agree this needs to be the last lockdown and hopefully it will be but opening too early risks increasing hospital admissions again.

why stop testing healthy people? do you mean close contacts?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 10:50:09 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:34:57 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 14, 2021, 09:58:45 AM
If you mention reopening you are accused of wanting the elderly to die

Reopening in a slow way is needed

People have had enough whilst the government have done very little

Track and trace
Health service
Schools
PPE
Eat out help out
A jolly Christmas
And much much more they have messed up

what happened at the end of the last 3 lockdowns?  when people were calling for things to slowly open up... we ended up back in lockdowns because hospitals started to get overrun..

i would be more cautious on the timeline for opening up as i do to want to be in lockdown again.
This needs to be the last lockdown. Open up slowly, stop testing healthy people and get as many vaccinated as possible.

Testing healthy people is wrong... I mean a healthy person is healthy and they wouldn't be able to spread the virus as they are healthy, it's completely unfounded that these healthy people could actually have the virus and spread it to someone else who may get unhealthy because of it..

Also testing more people only drives up the figures so it looks better if we don't test anyone and carry on regardless, a much simpler approach is needed, I think that's what they are doing in India, and it seems to work
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 14, 2021, 10:51:49 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 10:35:18 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 14, 2021, 09:55:59 AM
I would say the figures in India are massively under-reported. If there was 1 million dead I wouldn't be surprised. There are 10s of millions living in poverty in rural India so the likelihood of them even getting as far as a hospital let alone a proper cause of death is slim.

What have you to support that?

Unfounded opinions?
The chasm between "The Untouchables" at the bottom of the caste system and even normal society in India is well documented. Nobody cares about them. I also worked in India for several months traveling up and down the country so I have seen first hand the levels of poverty and lack of infrastructure away from the main urban hubs. If someone gets sick in a hut they aren't going to be whisked off in an ambulance to a Covid ward like here. They will likely die in that hut and the body disposed of according to tradition. I can't be arsed googling it but I would say a small percentage of deaths are medically certified in India, especially in the really poor states.

So...stitching all that together it is my opinion that the Covid deaths in India are significantly under-reported.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 10:52:45 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:34:57 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 14, 2021, 09:58:45 AM
If you mention reopening you are accused of wanting the elderly to die

Reopening in a slow way is needed

People have had enough whilst the government have done very little

Track and trace
Health service
Schools
PPE
Eat out help out
A jolly Christmas
And much much more they have messed up

what happened at the end of the last 3 lockdowns?  when people were calling for things to slowly open up... we ended up back in lockdowns because hospitals started to get overrun..

i would be more cautious on the timeline for opening up as i do to want to be in lockdown again.
This needs to be the last lockdown. Open up slowly, stop testing healthy people and get as many vaccinated as possible.
You need to make up your mind!

Weren't you calling for an immediate end to all lockdown yesterday? Now you're urging caution? Lionel Hutz will feel so betrayed!

Stopping testing people sure seems a bit insane though

Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 01:39:40 PM
The side effects of a lockdown are 100x worse than the effects of covid, especially for non vulnerable people.

Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 04:13:32 PM

So just open it up, let's do it. Sure what is the worst that can happen?
couldnt be worse than this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 10:55:52 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 14, 2021, 10:51:49 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 10:35:18 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 14, 2021, 09:55:59 AM
I would say the figures in India are massively under-reported. If there was 1 million dead I wouldn't be surprised. There are 10s of millions living in poverty in rural India so the likelihood of them even getting as far as a hospital let alone a proper cause of death is slim.

What have you to support that?

Unfounded opinions?
The chasm between "The Untouchables" at the bottom of the caste system and even normal society in India is well documented. Nobody cares about them. I also worked in India for several months traveling up and down the country so I have seen first hand the levels of poverty and lack of infrastructure away from the main urban hubs. If someone gets sick in a hut they aren't going to be whisked off in an ambulance to a Covid ward like here. They will likely die in that hut and the body disposed of according to tradition. I can't be arsed googling it but I would say a small percentage of deaths are medically certified in India, especially in the really poor states.

So...stitching all that together it is my opinion that the Covid deaths in India are significantly under-reported.

So nothing in data then?

Just speculation on why India's numbers are so low.

Would it be something to do with them not reporting deaths in an arbitrary manner like we do here?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 10:59:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 10:50:09 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:34:57 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 14, 2021, 09:58:45 AM
If you mention reopening you are accused of wanting the elderly to die

Reopening in a slow way is needed

People have had enough whilst the government have done very little

Track and trace
Health service
Schools
PPE
Eat out help out
A jolly Christmas
And much much more they have messed up

what happened at the end of the last 3 lockdowns?  when people were calling for things to slowly open up... we ended up back in lockdowns because hospitals started to get overrun..

i would be more cautious on the timeline for opening up as i do to want to be in lockdown again.
This needs to be the last lockdown. Open up slowly, stop testing healthy people and get as many vaccinated as possible.

Testing healthy people is wrong... I mean a healthy person is healthy and they wouldn't be able to spread the virus as they are healthy, it's completely unfounded that these healthy people could actually have the virus and spread it to someone else who may get unhealthy because of it..

Also testing more people only drives up the figures so it looks better if we don't test anyone and carry on regardless, a much simpler approach is needed, I think that's what they are doing in India, and it seems to work
We shouldn't test anybody for anything, if we do that everybody will be healthy until the end of time

Stop all cervical cancer checks for instance

These women are healthy, we need to stop testing them, it's political correctness gone mad, these women need to know their place
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on February 14, 2021, 11:11:58 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/14/is-covid-more-deadly-and-contagious-than-seasonal-flu?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1613293970
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 11:22:51 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on February 14, 2021, 11:11:58 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/14/is-covid-more-deadly-and-contagious-than-seasonal-flu?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1613293970

This is a particular bullshit point:

Second, the novel virus is more deadly. The proportion of all those infected by Sars-CoV-2 who die of the disease is estimated to have been about 1.1% in a high-income country in the first wave, although the risk in different age groups varies around this average.

Due to improvements in treatment, this rate will be lower in the second wave. In comparison, the World Health Organization states the fatality rate of standard flu is "usually well below 0.1%", around a tenth as lethal as Sars-CoV-2.

Do we have a test for flu? No.

The UK have carried out 81m Covid tests. That's more than 1 test per every member of it's population. We know the arbitrary way in which death totals are collected, if you have Covid and you die with it present in your system, you're a Covid death.

Now just imagine, like was like. There was a flu test in the UK, every winter flu season around 30m people were tested for flu, anyone who died who had a positive test for flu was then accounted for as a flu death. Do you think our reported flu deaths would rise significantly?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 11:28:42 AM
I think we should follow North Korea, India has nothing on them, zero Covid results
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 11:49:10 AM
register deaths in england from Flu 800 (i think thats 18/19 from the way the article is written) and from covid more than  100,000.

they are facts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 11:57:28 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:49:47 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:34:57 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 14, 2021, 09:58:45 AM
If you mention reopening you are accused of wanting the elderly to die

Reopening in a slow way is needed

People have had enough whilst the government have done very little

Track and trace
Health service
Schools
PPE
Eat out help out
A jolly Christmas
And much much more they have messed up

what happened at the end of the last 3 lockdowns?  when people were calling for things to slowly open up... we ended up back in lockdowns because hospitals started to get overrun..

i would be more cautious on the timeline for opening up as i do to want to be in lockdown again.
This needs to be the last lockdown. Open up slowly, stop testing healthy people and get as many vaccinated as possible.

we opened up slowly previously and it didnt work. why risk opening up too early again, there are still over 1000 cases in the south. i agree this needs to be the last lockdown and hopefully it will be but opening too early risks increasing hospital admissions again.

why stop testing healthy people? do you mean close contacts?
I mean people who aren't sick with the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 11:59:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 10:52:45 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:34:57 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 14, 2021, 09:58:45 AM
If you mention reopening you are accused of wanting the elderly to die

Reopening in a slow way is needed

People have had enough whilst the government have done very little

Track and trace
Health service
Schools
PPE
Eat out help out
A jolly Christmas
And much much more they have messed up

what happened at the end of the last 3 lockdowns?  when people were calling for things to slowly open up... we ended up back in lockdowns because hospitals started to get overrun..

i would be more cautious on the timeline for opening up as i do to want to be in lockdown again.
This needs to be the last lockdown. Open up slowly, stop testing healthy people and get as many vaccinated as possible.
You need to make up your mind!

Weren't you calling for an immediate end to all lockdown yesterday? Now you're urging caution? Lionel Hutz will feel so betrayed!

Stopping testing people sure seems a bit insane though

Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 01:39:40 PM
The side effects of a lockdown are 100x worse than the effects of covid, especially for non vulnerable people.

Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 04:13:32 PM

So just open it up, let's do it. Sure what is the worst that can happen?
couldnt be worse than this
I'd happily lift the whole thing today. Realistically that's not going to happen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 12:02:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 11:57:28 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:49:47 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:34:57 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 14, 2021, 09:58:45 AM
If you mention reopening you are accused of wanting the elderly to die

Reopening in a slow way is needed

People have had enough whilst the government have done very little

Track and trace
Health service
Schools
PPE
Eat out help out
A jolly Christmas
And much much more they have messed up

what happened at the end of the last 3 lockdowns?  when people were calling for things to slowly open up... we ended up back in lockdowns because hospitals started to get overrun..

i would be more cautious on the timeline for opening up as i do to want to be in lockdown again.
This needs to be the last lockdown. Open up slowly, stop testing healthy people and get as many vaccinated as possible.

we opened up slowly previously and it didnt work. why risk opening up too early again, there are still over 1000 cases in the south. i agree this needs to be the last lockdown and hopefully it will be but opening too early risks increasing hospital admissions again.

why stop testing healthy people? do you mean close contacts?
I mean people who aren't sick with the virus.

how do you know they are not sick with the virus if you dont test them?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 12:04:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 11:59:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 10:52:45 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:34:57 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 14, 2021, 09:58:45 AM
If you mention reopening you are accused of wanting the elderly to die

Reopening in a slow way is needed

People have had enough whilst the government have done very little

Track and trace
Health service
Schools
PPE
Eat out help out
A jolly Christmas
And much much more they have messed up

what happened at the end of the last 3 lockdowns?  when people were calling for things to slowly open up... we ended up back in lockdowns because hospitals started to get overrun..

i would be more cautious on the timeline for opening up as i do to want to be in lockdown again.
This needs to be the last lockdown. Open up slowly, stop testing healthy people and get as many vaccinated as possible.
You need to make up your mind!

Weren't you calling for an immediate end to all lockdown yesterday? Now you're urging caution? Lionel Hutz will feel so betrayed!

Stopping testing people sure seems a bit insane though

Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 01:39:40 PM
The side effects of a lockdown are 100x worse than the effects of covid, especially for non vulnerable people.

Quote from: Armagh18 on February 13, 2021, 04:13:32 PM

So just open it up, let's do it. Sure what is the worst that can happen?
couldnt be worse than this
I'd happily lift the whole thing today. Realistically that's not going to happen.

what would realistically happen hospital admissision if we opened up now? and what would the consquences of opening up now if hospitals would be overrun?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 12:25:44 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 12:02:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 11:57:28 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:49:47 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:34:57 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 14, 2021, 09:58:45 AM
If you mention reopening you are accused of wanting the elderly to die

Reopening in a slow way is needed

People have had enough whilst the government have done very little

Track and trace
Health service
Schools
PPE
Eat out help out
A jolly Christmas
And much much more they have messed up

what happened at the end of the last 3 lockdowns?  when people were calling for things to slowly open up... we ended up back in lockdowns because hospitals started to get overrun..

i would be more cautious on the timeline for opening up as i do to want to be in lockdown again.
This needs to be the last lockdown. Open up slowly, stop testing healthy people and get as many vaccinated as possible.

we opened up slowly previously and it didnt work. why risk opening up too early again, there are still over 1000 cases in the south. i agree this needs to be the last lockdown and hopefully it will be but opening too early risks increasing hospital admissions again.

why stop testing healthy people? do you mean close contacts?
I mean people who aren't sick with the virus.

how do you know they are not sick with the virus if you dont test them?
Because they aren't sick whatsoever....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 12:29:22 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 12:25:44 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 12:02:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 11:57:28 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:49:47 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:34:57 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 14, 2021, 09:58:45 AM
If you mention reopening you are accused of wanting the elderly to die

Reopening in a slow way is needed

People have had enough whilst the government have done very little

Track and trace
Health service
Schools
PPE
Eat out help out
A jolly Christmas
And much much more they have messed up

what happened at the end of the last 3 lockdowns?  when people were calling for things to slowly open up... we ended up back in lockdowns because hospitals started to get overrun..

i would be more cautious on the timeline for opening up as i do to want to be in lockdown again.
This needs to be the last lockdown. Open up slowly, stop testing healthy people and get as many vaccinated as possible.

we opened up slowly previously and it didnt work. why risk opening up too early again, there are still over 1000 cases in the south. i agree this needs to be the last lockdown and hopefully it will be but opening too early risks increasing hospital admissions again.

why stop testing healthy people? do you mean close contacts?
I mean people who aren't sick with the virus.

how do you know they are not sick with the virus if you dont test them?
Because they aren't sick whatsoever....

they could be asymptomatic... should we stop cancer screeening also as they arent sick whatsoever using your logic.  i think we need more testing around clusters to ensure it doesnt spread... but only really possible when we get numbers back under control.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 12:29:43 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 12:25:44 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 12:02:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 11:57:28 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:49:47 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:34:57 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 14, 2021, 09:58:45 AM
If you mention reopening you are accused of wanting the elderly to die

Reopening in a slow way is needed

People have had enough whilst the government have done very little

Track and trace
Health service
Schools
PPE
Eat out help out
A jolly Christmas
And much much more they have messed up

what happened at the end of the last 3 lockdowns?  when people were calling for things to slowly open up... we ended up back in lockdowns because hospitals started to get overrun..

i would be more cautious on the timeline for opening up as i do to want to be in lockdown again.
This needs to be the last lockdown. Open up slowly, stop testing healthy people and get as many vaccinated as possible.

we opened up slowly previously and it didnt work. why risk opening up too early again, there are still over 1000 cases in the south. i agree this needs to be the last lockdown and hopefully it will be but opening too early risks increasing hospital admissions again.

why stop testing healthy people? do you mean close contacts?
I mean people who aren't sick with the virus.

how do you know they are not sick with the virus if you dont test them?
Because they aren't sick whatsoever....

Can they spread Covid? I think your are on to something. Not sick can't spread it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 12:32:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 12:29:43 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 12:25:44 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 12:02:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 11:57:28 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:49:47 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 14, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:34:57 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 14, 2021, 09:58:45 AM
If you mention reopening you are accused of wanting the elderly to die

Reopening in a slow way is needed

People have had enough whilst the government have done very little

Track and trace
Health service
Schools
PPE
Eat out help out
A jolly Christmas
And much much more they have messed up

what happened at the end of the last 3 lockdowns?  when people were calling for things to slowly open up... we ended up back in lockdowns because hospitals started to get overrun..

i would be more cautious on the timeline for opening up as i do to want to be in lockdown again.
This needs to be the last lockdown. Open up slowly, stop testing healthy people and get as many vaccinated as possible.

we opened up slowly previously and it didnt work. why risk opening up too early again, there are still over 1000 cases in the south. i agree this needs to be the last lockdown and hopefully it will be but opening too early risks increasing hospital admissions again.

why stop testing healthy people? do you mean close contacts?
I mean people who aren't sick with the virus.

how do you know they are not sick with the virus if you dont test them?
Because they aren't sick whatsoever....

Can they spread Covid? I think your are on to something. Not sick can't spread it
What does it matter if we get the fecking vulnerable vaccinated??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 12:34:35 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 11:49:10 AM
register deaths in england from Flu 800 (i think thats 18/19 from the way the article is written) and from covid more than  100,000.

they are facts.

How many flu tests have the UK carried out in comparison to the 80m Covid tests in the past 12 months?

Answer this question with the facts.

I doubt you have the moral courage to address that though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 12:34:35 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 11:49:10 AM
register deaths in england from Flu 800 (i think thats 18/19 from the way the article is written) and from covid more than  100,000.

they are facts.

How many flu tests have the UK carried out in comparison to the 80m Covid tests in the past 12 months?

Answer this question with the facts.

I doubt you have the moral courage to address that though.

nothing to do with moral courage but ive done a few google searchs and cannot find facts related to flu testing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 14, 2021, 01:02:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 12:34:35 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 11:49:10 AM
register deaths in england from Flu 800 (i think thats 18/19 from the way the article is written) and from covid more than  100,000.

they are facts.

How many flu tests have the UK carried out in comparison to the 80m Covid tests in the past 12 months?

Answer this question with the facts.

I doubt you have the moral courage to address that though.

nothing to do with moral courage but ive done a few google searchs and cannot find facts related to flu testing.

Why would any nation carry major flu testing campaign like they would with Covid? Multiple sources have been provided to show Covid is not the same as flu. Angelo struggling with comparisons again
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 01:02:56 PM
The great plague of 17/18 we had 50k excess deaths, if they don't test for flu.......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:03:24 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 12:34:35 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 11:49:10 AM
register deaths in england from Flu 800 (i think thats 18/19 from the way the article is written) and from covid more than  100,000.

they are facts.

How many flu tests have the UK carried out in comparison to the 80m Covid tests in the past 12 months?

Answer this question with the facts.

I doubt you have the moral courage to address that though.

nothing to do with moral courage but ive done a few google searchs and cannot find facts related to flu testing.

Can you answer the question?

How many tests on flu have the UK carried out in relation to flu in the past 12 months?

Have they carried out 1 test?

3.3m Covid tests have been carried out in the free state. How many flu tests in the same period? 1?

Is it possible that we don't even test for flu? Is it possible that we do not assign flu death in an arbitrary manner as we do not even test people for them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:04:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 01:02:56 PM
The great plague of 17/18 we had 50k excess deaths, if they don't test for flu.......

So you're now mocking 50k excess deaths in a jokey manner?

Pathetic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:06:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:03:24 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 12:34:35 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 11:49:10 AM
register deaths in england from Flu 800 (i think thats 18/19 from the way the article is written) and from covid more than  100,000.

they are facts.

How many flu tests have the UK carried out in comparison to the 80m Covid tests in the past 12 months?

Answer this question with the facts.

I doubt you have the moral courage to address that though.

nothing to do with moral courage but ive done a few google searchs and cannot find facts related to flu testing.

Can you answer the question?

How many tests on flu have the UK carried out in relation to flu in the past 12 months?

Have they carried out 1 test?

3.3m Covid tests have been carried out in the free state. How many flu tests in the same period? 1?

Is it possible that we don't even test for flu? Is it possible that we do not assign flu death in an arbitrary manner as we do not even test people for them.

are we dealing in facts or opinions. i stated facts you appear to want to deal in opinons something you dismissed early with another poster.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 01:07:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:04:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 01:02:56 PM
The great plague of 17/18 we had 50k excess deaths, if they don't test for flu.......

So you're now mocking 50k excess deaths in a jokey manner?

Pathetic.

I'm mocking you and your tired references to one type of illness over a completely different type...

You don't give a shit and have been shown up countless times but continue to blatter on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:15:48 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:06:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:03:24 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 12:34:35 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 11:49:10 AM
register deaths in england from Flu 800 (i think thats 18/19 from the way the article is written) and from covid more than  100,000.

they are facts.

How many flu tests have the UK carried out in comparison to the 80m Covid tests in the past 12 months?

Answer this question with the facts.

I doubt you have the moral courage to address that though.

nothing to do with moral courage but ive done a few google searchs and cannot find facts related to flu testing.

Can you answer the question?

How many tests on flu have the UK carried out in relation to flu in the past 12 months?

Have they carried out 1 test?

3.3m Covid tests have been carried out in the free state. How many flu tests in the same period? 1?

Is it possible that we don't even test for flu? Is it possible that we do not assign flu death in an arbitrary manner as we do not even test people for them.

are we dealing in facts or opinions. i stated facts you appear to want to deal in opinons something you dismissed early with another poster.

I'd like to deal with facts, do you think you can manage it?

I've asked you a question you haven't answered and there's a reason you haven't answered it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:20:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:15:48 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:06:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:03:24 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 12:34:35 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 11:49:10 AM
register deaths in england from Flu 800 (i think thats 18/19 from the way the article is written) and from covid more than  100,000.

they are facts.

How many flu tests have the UK carried out in comparison to the 80m Covid tests in the past 12 months?

Answer this question with the facts.

I doubt you have the moral courage to address that though.

nothing to do with moral courage but ive done a few google searchs and cannot find facts related to flu testing.

Can you answer the question?

How many tests on flu have the UK carried out in relation to flu in the past 12 months?

Have they carried out 1 test?

3.3m Covid tests have been carried out in the free state. How many flu tests in the same period? 1?

Is it possible that we don't even test for flu? Is it possible that we do not assign flu death in an arbitrary manner as we do not even test people for them.

are we dealing in facts or opinions. i stated facts you appear to want to deal in opinons something you dismissed early with another poster.

I'd like to deal with facts, do you think you can manage it?

I've asked you a question you haven't answered and there's a reason you haven't answered it.

i provided facts.. you are asking questions i dont have the answer for... ive googled and still dont have an answer, i dont even know where to start looking and when i looked at hse and nhs stuff its huge and have better things to do. so can you produce the facts if you know them and save me some time. the fact about flu and covid registed deaths was in an article posted by someone else.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:22:08 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:20:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:15:48 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:06:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:03:24 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 12:34:35 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 11:49:10 AM
register deaths in england from Flu 800 (i think thats 18/19 from the way the article is written) and from covid more than  100,000.

they are facts.

How many flu tests have the UK carried out in comparison to the 80m Covid tests in the past 12 months?

Answer this question with the facts.

I doubt you have the moral courage to address that though.

nothing to do with moral courage but ive done a few google searchs and cannot find facts related to flu testing.

Can you answer the question?

How many tests on flu have the UK carried out in relation to flu in the past 12 months?

Have they carried out 1 test?

3.3m Covid tests have been carried out in the free state. How many flu tests in the same period? 1?

Is it possible that we don't even test for flu? Is it possible that we do not assign flu death in an arbitrary manner as we do not even test people for them.

are we dealing in facts or opinions. i stated facts you appear to want to deal in opinons something you dismissed early with another poster.

I'd like to deal with facts, do you think you can manage it?

I've asked you a question you haven't answered and there's a reason you haven't answered it.

i provided facts.. you are asking questions i dont have the answer for... ive googled and still dont have an answer, i dont even know where to start looking and when i looked at hse and nhs stuff its huge and have better things to do. so can you produce the facts if you know them and save me some time. the fact about flu and covid registed deaths was in an article posted by someone else.

I think you do know the answer but are trying to be extremely disingenuous?

Here's another question for you.

Do we have a testing system for flu? Yes or no.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:25:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:22:08 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:20:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:15:48 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:06:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:03:24 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 12:34:35 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 11:49:10 AM
register deaths in england from Flu 800 (i think thats 18/19 from the way the article is written) and from covid more than  100,000.

they are facts.

How many flu tests have the UK carried out in comparison to the 80m Covid tests in the past 12 months?

Answer this question with the facts.

I doubt you have the moral courage to address that though.

nothing to do with moral courage but ive done a few google searchs and cannot find facts related to flu testing.

Can you answer the question?

How many tests on flu have the UK carried out in relation to flu in the past 12 months?

Have they carried out 1 test?

3.3m Covid tests have been carried out in the free state. How many flu tests in the same period? 1?

Is it possible that we don't even test for flu? Is it possible that we do not assign flu death in an arbitrary manner as we do not even test people for them.

are we dealing in facts or opinions. i stated facts you appear to want to deal in opinons something you dismissed early with another poster.

I'd like to deal with facts, do you think you can manage it?

I've asked you a question you haven't answered and there's a reason you haven't answered it.

i provided facts.. you are asking questions i dont have the answer for... ive googled and still dont have an answer, i dont even know where to start looking and when i looked at hse and nhs stuff its huge and have better things to do. so can you produce the facts if you know them and save me some time. the fact about flu and covid registed deaths was in an article posted by someone else.

I think you do know the answer but are trying to be extremely disingenuous?

Here's another question for you.

Do we have a testing system for flu? Yes or no.

you want to deal in facts. i told you already i cannot find an answer to that so all id be doing is offering an opinon.. so if you have the answer then share it with me, why do i have to go spend time googling something that you appear to have an answer for. why not just give me the answer and source.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:30:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:25:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:22:08 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:20:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:15:48 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:06:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:03:24 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 12:34:35 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 11:49:10 AM
register deaths in england from Flu 800 (i think thats 18/19 from the way the article is written) and from covid more than  100,000.

they are facts.

How many flu tests have the UK carried out in comparison to the 80m Covid tests in the past 12 months?

Answer this question with the facts.

I doubt you have the moral courage to address that though.

nothing to do with moral courage but ive done a few google searchs and cannot find facts related to flu testing.

Can you answer the question?

How many tests on flu have the UK carried out in relation to flu in the past 12 months?

Have they carried out 1 test?

3.3m Covid tests have been carried out in the free state. How many flu tests in the same period? 1?

Is it possible that we don't even test for flu? Is it possible that we do not assign flu death in an arbitrary manner as we do not even test people for them.

are we dealing in facts or opinions. i stated facts you appear to want to deal in opinons something you dismissed early with another poster.

I'd like to deal with facts, do you think you can manage it?

I've asked you a question you haven't answered and there's a reason you haven't answered it.

i provided facts.. you are asking questions i dont have the answer for... ive googled and still dont have an answer, i dont even know where to start looking and when i looked at hse and nhs stuff its huge and have better things to do. so can you produce the facts if you know them and save me some time. the fact about flu and covid registed deaths was in an article posted by someone else.

I think you do know the answer but are trying to be extremely disingenuous?

Here's another question for you.

Do we have a testing system for flu? Yes or no.

you want to deal in facts. i told you already i cannot find an answer to that so all id be doing is offering an opinon.. so if you have the answer then share it with me, why do i have to go spend time googling something that you appear to have an answer for. why not just give me the answer and source.

I want to deal in facts and you do not want to answer questions.

You cannot find an answer to it? Is that not telling. There is a testing system in the UK where we have 80m tests carried out to check for Covid. 3.3m in the FS.

Conversely you don't seem to even know if one exists for flu. The reason you don't know if because there is no testing system for flu. I will give you the answer there.

Hopefully we are now clear on that, mass testing for Covid, not testing for flu. Covid deaths are directly related to positive test results, they are recorded in an arbitrary manner based on test results.

On to the next question for you.

Now if 80m flu tests were carried out in the UK for flu, or 3.3m in the FS for flu and we were to record any death with a positive cases as a flu death, you think it's reasonable to assume that flu deaths would rise by double digit multiples every winter flu season? Yes or no.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 14, 2021, 01:31:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 12:34:35 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 11:49:10 AM
register deaths in england from Flu 800 (i think thats 18/19 from the way the article is written) and from covid more than  100,000.

they are facts.

How many flu tests have the UK carried out in comparison to the 80m Covid tests in the past 12 months?

Answer this question with the facts.

I doubt you have the moral courage to address that though.
Headcold versus cholera
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:38:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:30:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:25:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:22:08 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:20:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:15:48 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:06:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:03:24 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 12:34:35 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 11:49:10 AM
register deaths in england from Flu 800 (i think thats 18/19 from the way the article is written) and from covid more than  100,000.

they are facts.

How many flu tests have the UK carried out in comparison to the 80m Covid tests in the past 12 months?

Answer this question with the facts.

I doubt you have the moral courage to address that though.

nothing to do with moral courage but ive done a few google searchs and cannot find facts related to flu testing.

Can you answer the question?

How many tests on flu have the UK carried out in relation to flu in the past 12 months?

Have they carried out 1 test?

3.3m Covid tests have been carried out in the free state. How many flu tests in the same period? 1?

Is it possible that we don't even test for flu? Is it possible that we do not assign flu death in an arbitrary manner as we do not even test people for them.

are we dealing in facts or opinions. i stated facts you appear to want to deal in opinons something you dismissed early with another poster.

I'd like to deal with facts, do you think you can manage it?

I've asked you a question you haven't answered and there's a reason you haven't answered it.

i provided facts.. you are asking questions i dont have the answer for... ive googled and still dont have an answer, i dont even know where to start looking and when i looked at hse and nhs stuff its huge and have better things to do. so can you produce the facts if you know them and save me some time. the fact about flu and covid registed deaths was in an article posted by someone else.

I think you do know the answer but are trying to be extremely disingenuous?

Here's another question for you.

Do we have a testing system for flu? Yes or no.

you want to deal in facts. i told you already i cannot find an answer to that so all id be doing is offering an opinon.. so if you have the answer then share it with me, why do i have to go spend time googling something that you appear to have an answer for. why not just give me the answer and source.

I want to deal in facts and you do not want to answer questions.

You cannot find an answer to it? Is that not telling. There is a testing system in the UK where we have 80m tests carried out to check for Covid. 3.3m in the FS.

Conversely you don't seem to even know if one exists for flu. The reason you don't know if because there is no testing system for flu. I will give you the answer there.

Hopefully we are now clear on that, mass testing for Covid, not testing for flu. Covid deaths are directly related to positive test results, they are recorded in an arbitrary manner based on test results.

On to the next question for you.

Now if 80m flu tests were carried out in the UK for flu, or 3.3m in the FS for flu and we were to record any death with a positive cases as a flu death, you think it's reasonable to assume that flu deaths would rise by double digit multiples every winter flu season? Yes or no.

how hard it to understand that someone cannot answer a questions with facts if they dont know the answer!!!

i could not find an answer as i have seen reference to tests  and testing but not conclusive to say either way. i dont see your source to say there is no testing. can you provide that?

arbitrary manner is opinion not fact. i compared registered deaths. what is put on the death cert.

if we are dealing in facts still i cannot answer that last question. do you want me to offer an opinion? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 14, 2021, 01:41:55 PM
Padraig we opened up in June and had a few days where we had zero cases and zero deaths

I think you will find thats when all the celebrity doctors should have suggested eliminating the virus

But no

They fell asleep at the wheel

When we were all enjoying our summer with little or no cases they should have been in the background gettting things in place to stamp out the fire

That's what they get paid to do
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:45:50 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:38:42 PM


how hard it to understand that someone cannot answer a questions with facts if they dont know the answer!!!

i could not find an answer as i have seen reference to tests  and testing but not conclusive to say either way. i dont see your source to say there is no testing. can you provide that?

arbitrary manner is opinion not fact. i compared registered deaths. what is put on the death cert.

if we are dealing in facts still i cannot answer that last question. do you want me to offer an opinion?

So you believe we may have a system for testing? If we have then why has nobody ever heard of it? Can anyone show me the mass testing system we have for flu? Has anyone here ever had a flu test?

Arbitrary manner is an absolute fact. No doubt about it. If you have Covid, you are classified as a Covid death, it is stated as a note in the NISRA deaths, if your death cert mentions Covid anywhere, regardless if it was the primary cause of death - Covid death.

You don't want to deal in facts. You want to muddy the water.

The fact is we do not have a mass testing system for flu.
The fact is we do not arbitrarily record flu deaths as we do for Covid.
They are facts, they are not up for discussion.

Now if we treated flu in the same way as we do Covid, in terms of mass testing and arbitrarily recording deaths, do you think flu cases and flu related deaths would rise in double digit multiples? Yes or no. I'm going to press you for an answer on this and a failure to answer that with a yes or no completely shows your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 14, 2021, 01:55:15 PM
Pearse do yourself a favour.. put that lad on IGNORE.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:56:05 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 14, 2021, 01:41:55 PM
Padraig we opened up in June and had a few days where we had zero cases and zero deaths

I think you will find thats when all the celebrity doctors should have suggested eliminating the virus

But no

They fell asleep at the wheel

When we were all enjoying our summer with little or no cases they should have been in the background gettting things in place to stamp out the fire

That's what they get paid to do

Dr don't make policy. Governments do. But I agree we wasted an opportunity by not going for a zero covid policy. There was no appetite for it and then the North South border issue made it diffiult. That is not doctors Faults and I think you 'll find Drs were urging cause at all times.

I am.just urging caution against opening to soon and ending back up in lockdown scenario again.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 02:11:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:45:50 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:38:42 PM


how hard it to understand that someone cannot answer a questions with facts if they dont know the answer!!!

i could not find an answer as i have seen reference to tests  and testing but not conclusive to say either way. i dont see your source to say there is no testing. can you provide that?

arbitrary manner is opinion not fact. i compared registered deaths. what is put on the death cert.

if we are dealing in facts still i cannot answer that last question. do you want me to offer an opinion?

So you believe we may have a system for testing? If we have then why has nobody ever heard of it? Can anyone show me the mass testing system we have for flu? Has anyone here ever had a flu test?

Arbitrary manner is an absolute fact. No doubt about it. If you have Covid, you are classified as a Covid death, it is stated as a note in the NISRA deaths, if your death cert mentions Covid anywhere, regardless if it was the primary cause of death - Covid death.

You don't want to deal in facts. You want to muddy the water.

The fact is we do not have a mass testing system for flu.
The fact is we do not arbitrarily record flu deaths as we do for Covid.
They are facts, they are not up for discussion.

Now if we treated flu in the same way as we do Covid, in terms of mass testing and arbitrarily recording deaths, do you think flu cases and flu related deaths would rise in double digit multiples? Yes or no. I'm going to press you for an answer on this and a failure to answer that with a yes or no completely shows your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous.

i found muliple articles going back to 2014 referencing testing for flu. i saw muliple reports which stated the numbers of flu strain a b or c so testing takes place.

but if your actual question is do we have similar testing for covid and flu. the answer is no.

do you have the breakdown of deaths that are primary or otherwise and same for flu to do a comparasion?

just to be very clear you want to deal in facts and not opinions but you are pressing me for my opinion on a hypothetical scenario and you claim i am mudding the waters... i read an article it stated 800 registered flu deaths and over 100,000 registered covid deaths. is that fact correct a simple yes or no. going to press you for an answer on this and a failure to answer that with a yes or no completely shows your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous.

in answer to the hypothetical question id have to say yes to cases no to deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 02:18:33 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 02:11:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:45:50 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:38:42 PM


how hard it to understand that someone cannot answer a questions with facts if they dont know the answer!!!

i could not find an answer as i have seen reference to tests  and testing but not conclusive to say either way. i dont see your source to say there is no testing. can you provide that?

arbitrary manner is opinion not fact. i compared registered deaths. what is put on the death cert.

if we are dealing in facts still i cannot answer that last question. do you want me to offer an opinion?

So you believe we may have a system for testing? If we have then why has nobody ever heard of it? Can anyone show me the mass testing system we have for flu? Has anyone here ever had a flu test?

Arbitrary manner is an absolute fact. No doubt about it. If you have Covid, you are classified as a Covid death, it is stated as a note in the NISRA deaths, if your death cert mentions Covid anywhere, regardless if it was the primary cause of death - Covid death.

You don't want to deal in facts. You want to muddy the water.

The fact is we do not have a mass testing system for flu.
The fact is we do not arbitrarily record flu deaths as we do for Covid.
They are facts, they are not up for discussion.

Now if we treated flu in the same way as we do Covid, in terms of mass testing and arbitrarily recording deaths, do you think flu cases and flu related deaths would rise in double digit multiples? Yes or no. I'm going to press you for an answer on this and a failure to answer that with a yes or no completely shows your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous.

i found muliple articles going back to 2014 referencing testing for flu. i saw muliple reports which stated the numbers of flu strain a b or c so testing takes place.

but if your actual question is do we have similar testing for covid and flu. the answer is no.

do you have the breakdown of deaths that are primary or otherwise and same for flu to do a comparasion?

just to be very clear you want to deal in facts and not opinions but you are pressing me for my opinion on a hypothetical scenario and you claim i am mudding the waters... i read an article it stated 800 registered flu deaths and over 100,000 registered covid deaths. is that fact correct a simple yes or no. going to press you for an answer on this and a failure to answer that with a yes or no completely shows your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous.

in answer to the hypothetical question id have to say yes to cases no to deaths.

I'm on about mass testing now. I've never ever heard of anyone being referred for a flu test. Let me get this straight, you are now contending that we do in fact have mass testing for flu? Have you any proof of that? 80m Covid tests in under 12 months in the UK, 3.3m in the Free State in the same timeframe. On an annual basis how much many people do we mass test for flu? Please answer this as you seem to be contending that we do mass test for flu.

Why would you say no to death? It's an absolute fact that Covid death tolls include anyone who returned a positive Covid test, regardless of whether it was the actual primary cause of death. This is clearly stated on the notes on NISRA's figures. So if the positive cases go up then invariably the death cases will go up to to the arbitrary manner they are recorded in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 14, 2021, 02:22:08 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 02:11:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:45:50 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:38:42 PM


how hard it to understand that someone cannot answer a questions with facts if they dont know the answer!!!

i could not find an answer as i have seen reference to tests  and testing but not conclusive to say either way. i dont see your source to say there is no testing. can you provide that?

arbitrary manner is opinion not fact. i compared registered deaths. what is put on the death cert.

if we are dealing in facts still i cannot answer that last question. do you want me to offer an opinion?

So you believe we may have a system for testing? If we have then why has nobody ever heard of it? Can anyone show me the mass testing system we have for flu? Has anyone here ever had a flu test?

Arbitrary manner is an absolute fact. No doubt about it. If you have Covid, you are classified as a Covid death, it is stated as a note in the NISRA deaths, if your death cert mentions Covid anywhere, regardless if it was the primary cause of death - Covid death.

You don't want to deal in facts. You want to muddy the water.

The fact is we do not have a mass testing system for flu.
The fact is we do not arbitrarily record flu deaths as we do for Covid.
They are facts, they are not up for discussion.

Now if we treated flu in the same way as we do Covid, in terms of mass testing and arbitrarily recording deaths, do you think flu cases and flu related deaths would rise in double digit multiples? Yes or no. I'm going to press you for an answer on this and a failure to answer that with a yes or no completely shows your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous.

i found muliple articles going back to 2014 referencing testing for flu. i saw muliple reports which stated the numbers of flu strain a b or c so testing takes place.

but if your actual question is do we have similar testing for covid and flu. the answer is no.

do you have the breakdown of deaths that are primary or otherwise and same for flu to do a comparasion?

just to be very clear you want to deal in facts and not opinions but you are pressing me for my opinion on a hypothetical scenario and you claim i am mudding the waters... i read an article it stated 800 registered flu deaths and over 100,000 registered covid deaths. is that fact correct a simple yes or no. going to press you for an answer on this and a failure to answer that with a yes or no completely shows your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous.

in answer to the hypothetical question id have to say yes to cases no to deaths.
Asking Angelo for a straight answer is one of life's great mysteries. Many have tried and spoken about it but few have ever seen it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 14, 2021, 02:29:25 PM
Ross stay out of it
Nobody listens to you anyway
Way on back to the Roscommon chat
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 02:34:44 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 14, 2021, 02:22:08 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 02:11:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:45:50 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:38:42 PM


how hard it to understand that someone cannot answer a questions with facts if they dont know the answer!!!

i could not find an answer as i have seen reference to tests  and testing but not conclusive to say either way. i dont see your source to say there is no testing. can you provide that?

arbitrary manner is opinion not fact. i compared registered deaths. what is put on the death cert.

if we are dealing in facts still i cannot answer that last question. do you want me to offer an opinion?

So you believe we may have a system for testing? If we have then why has nobody ever heard of it? Can anyone show me the mass testing system we have for flu? Has anyone here ever had a flu test?

Arbitrary manner is an absolute fact. No doubt about it. If you have Covid, you are classified as a Covid death, it is stated as a note in the NISRA deaths, if your death cert mentions Covid anywhere, regardless if it was the primary cause of death - Covid death.

You don't want to deal in facts. You want to muddy the water.

The fact is we do not have a mass testing system for flu.
The fact is we do not arbitrarily record flu deaths as we do for Covid.
They are facts, they are not up for discussion.

Now if we treated flu in the same way as we do Covid, in terms of mass testing and arbitrarily recording deaths, do you think flu cases and flu related deaths would rise in double digit multiples? Yes or no. I'm going to press you for an answer on this and a failure to answer that with a yes or no completely shows your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous.

i found muliple articles going back to 2014 referencing testing for flu. i saw muliple reports which stated the numbers of flu strain a b or c so testing takes place.

but if your actual question is do we have similar testing for covid and flu. the answer is no.

do you have the breakdown of deaths that are primary or otherwise and same for flu to do a comparasion?

just to be very clear you want to deal in facts and not opinions but you are pressing me for my opinion on a hypothetical scenario and you claim i am mudding the waters... i read an article it stated 800 registered flu deaths and over 100,000 registered covid deaths. is that fact correct a simple yes or no. going to press you for an answer on this and a failure to answer that with a yes or no completely shows your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous.

in answer to the hypothetical question id have to say yes to cases no to deaths.
Asking Angelo for a straight answer is one of life's great mysteries. Many have tried and spoken about it but few have ever seen it.

Odd that is was you who ran away from me and put me on ignore when you couldn't deal with being exposed as a liar on alcohol related deaths.

You now take shots from the sideline rather than directly engage me.

Can I ask dublin7 and Rossfan if they are really committed to ignoring me that they stop commenting from the sideline about me, I'm saying this for your own sake because it just shows that you are still sore from the beatdown I gave you in previous encounters.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 02:35:17 PM
Can someone change the title to the British flu virus please.

Let's open up a thread on comparing flu with Covid

Then open a thread on flu, particularly the 17/18 winter
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 02:44:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 02:18:33 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 02:11:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:45:50 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:38:42 PM


how hard it to understand that someone cannot answer a questions with facts if they dont know the answer!!!

i could not find an answer as i have seen reference to tests  and testing but not conclusive to say either way. i dont see your source to say there is no testing. can you provide that?

arbitrary manner is opinion not fact. i compared registered deaths. what is put on the death cert.

if we are dealing in facts still i cannot answer that last question. do you want me to offer an opinion?

So you believe we may have a system for testing? If we have then why has nobody ever heard of it? Can anyone show me the mass testing system we have for flu? Has anyone here ever had a flu test?

Arbitrary manner is an absolute fact. No doubt about it. If you have Covid, you are classified as a Covid death, it is stated as a note in the NISRA deaths, if your death cert mentions Covid anywhere, regardless if it was the primary cause of death - Covid death.

You don't want to deal in facts. You want to muddy the water.

The fact is we do not have a mass testing system for flu.
The fact is we do not arbitrarily record flu deaths as we do for Covid.
They are facts, they are not up for discussion.

Now if we treated flu in the same way as we do Covid, in terms of mass testing and arbitrarily recording deaths, do you think flu cases and flu related deaths would rise in double digit multiples? Yes or no. I'm going to press you for an answer on this and a failure to answer that with a yes or no completely shows your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous.

i found muliple articles going back to 2014 referencing testing for flu. i saw muliple reports which stated the numbers of flu strain a b or c so testing takes place.

but if your actual question is do we have similar testing for covid and flu. the answer is no.

do you have the breakdown of deaths that are primary or otherwise and same for flu to do a comparasion?

just to be very clear you want to deal in facts and not opinions but you are pressing me for my opinion on a hypothetical scenario and you claim i am mudding the waters... i read an article it stated 800 registered flu deaths and over 100,000 registered covid deaths. is that fact correct a simple yes or no. going to press you for an answer on this and a failure to answer that with a yes or no completely shows your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous.

in answer to the hypothetical question id have to say yes to cases no to deaths.

I'm on about mass testing now. I've never ever heard of anyone being referred for a flu test. Let me get this straight, you are now contending that we do in fact have mass testing for flu? Have you any proof of that? 80m Covid tests in under 12 months in the UK, 3.3m in the Free State in the same timeframe. On an annual basis how much many people do we mass test for flu? Please answer this as you seem to be contending that we do mass test for flu.

Why would you say no to death? It's an absolute fact that Covid death tolls include anyone who returned a positive Covid test, regardless of whether it was the actual primary cause of death. This is clearly stated on the notes on NISRA's figures. So if the positive cases go up then invariably the death cases will go up to to the arbitrary manner they are recorded in.

based on your inability to answer my question you have completely shown your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous. thats just one sign of your disingenuous engagement

you didnt state mass testing. you asked me how many tests in uk first then how many in ireland and then asked me is there a testing system. i dont know the answer to those questions and either do you or at least you have not provided a source to the answer of those questions. i said i saw reference to testing not that we do mass testing for flu.

back to facts, as you have never heard of anyone being refered for a flu test they dont exist??? you then go on to infer stuff i never said. i even went as far as actually answering the question you were trying to ask but were unable to articulate it.
i did offer this, i think you might have deliberately missed it...

but if your actual question is do we have similar testing for covid and flu. the answer is no.

you are changing the last question now and want me to elaborate when it was a yes/no question. Since you cannot answer my question when i gave you the yes/no answer  to yours, i see no point in continuing responding to you. ill happily elaborate if you provide the yes/no answer to my question. Do you have the moral courage?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 02:51:51 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 02:44:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 02:18:33 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 02:11:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 01:45:50 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 01:38:42 PM


how hard it to understand that someone cannot answer a questions with facts if they dont know the answer!!!

i could not find an answer as i have seen reference to tests  and testing but not conclusive to say either way. i dont see your source to say there is no testing. can you provide that?

arbitrary manner is opinion not fact. i compared registered deaths. what is put on the death cert.

if we are dealing in facts still i cannot answer that last question. do you want me to offer an opinion?

So you believe we may have a system for testing? If we have then why has nobody ever heard of it? Can anyone show me the mass testing system we have for flu? Has anyone here ever had a flu test?

Arbitrary manner is an absolute fact. No doubt about it. If you have Covid, you are classified as a Covid death, it is stated as a note in the NISRA deaths, if your death cert mentions Covid anywhere, regardless if it was the primary cause of death - Covid death.

You don't want to deal in facts. You want to muddy the water.

The fact is we do not have a mass testing system for flu.
The fact is we do not arbitrarily record flu deaths as we do for Covid.
They are facts, they are not up for discussion.

Now if we treated flu in the same way as we do Covid, in terms of mass testing and arbitrarily recording deaths, do you think flu cases and flu related deaths would rise in double digit multiples? Yes or no. I'm going to press you for an answer on this and a failure to answer that with a yes or no completely shows your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous.

i found muliple articles going back to 2014 referencing testing for flu. i saw muliple reports which stated the numbers of flu strain a b or c so testing takes place.

but if your actual question is do we have similar testing for covid and flu. the answer is no.

do you have the breakdown of deaths that are primary or otherwise and same for flu to do a comparasion?

just to be very clear you want to deal in facts and not opinions but you are pressing me for my opinion on a hypothetical scenario and you claim i am mudding the waters... i read an article it stated 800 registered flu deaths and over 100,000 registered covid deaths. is that fact correct a simple yes or no. going to press you for an answer on this and a failure to answer that with a yes or no completely shows your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous.

in answer to the hypothetical question id have to say yes to cases no to deaths.

I'm on about mass testing now. I've never ever heard of anyone being referred for a flu test. Let me get this straight, you are now contending that we do in fact have mass testing for flu? Have you any proof of that? 80m Covid tests in under 12 months in the UK, 3.3m in the Free State in the same timeframe. On an annual basis how much many people do we mass test for flu? Please answer this as you seem to be contending that we do mass test for flu.

Why would you say no to death? It's an absolute fact that Covid death tolls include anyone who returned a positive Covid test, regardless of whether it was the actual primary cause of death. This is clearly stated on the notes on NISRA's figures. So if the positive cases go up then invariably the death cases will go up to to the arbitrary manner they are recorded in.

based on your inability to answer my question you have completely shown your engagement on this to be completely disingenuous. thats just one sign of your disingenuous engagement

you didnt state mass testing. you asked me how many tests in uk first then how many in ireland and then asked me is there a testing system. i dont know the answer to those questions and either do you or at least you have not provided a source to the answer of those questions. i said i saw reference to testing not that we do mass testing for flu.

back to facts, as you have never heard of anyone being refered for a flu test they dont exist??? you then go on to infer stuff i never said. i even went as far as actually answering the question you were trying to ask but were unable to articulate it.
i did offer this, i think you might have deliberately missed it...

but if your actual question is do we have similar testing for covid and flu. the answer is no.

you are changing the last question now and want me to elaborate when it was a yes/no question. Since you cannot answer my question when i gave you the yes/no answer  to yours, i see no point in continuing responding to you. ill happily elaborate if you provide the yes/no answer to my question. Do you have the moral courage?

I'm the one still awaiting an answer. All you have sought to do is muddy the waters with the most incredible of assertions.

We're not comparing like with like with it comes to case numbers and death totals. To do so we would need mass testing for flu, something we clearly don't have and something you risibily seem to suggest exists (without any evidence offered).

I've already clarified that NISRA figures any death where a positive Covid tests existed within an arbitrary timeframe regardless of whether or not it was the primary cause of death. Now it's very fair to say that if these factors existed for flu, mass testing and arbitrary recording of death as flu related if a positive case exists within a set timeframe as the time of death then both case numbers and deaths would increase by double digit multiples for flu.

If you are going to continue with the fantasy that we carry out mass testing on flu every year then you lose any credibility in this discussion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 03:05:04 PM
Quote
I'm the one still awaiting an answer. All you have sought to do is muddy the waters with the most incredible of assertions.

We're not comparing like with like with it comes to case numbers and death totals. To do so we would need mass testing for flu, something we clearly don't have and something you risibily seem to suggest exists (without any evidence offered).

I've already clarified that NISRA figures any death where a positive Covid tests existed within an arbitrary timeframe regardless of whether or not it was the primary cause of death. Now it's very fair to say that if these factors existed for flu, mass testing and arbitrary recording of death as flu related if a positive case exists within a set timeframe as the time of death then both case numbers and deaths would increase by double digit multiples for flu.

If you are going to continue with the fantasy that we carry out mass testing on flu every year then you lose any credibility in this discussion.

you got there in the end.. you have to compare like with like. hopefully you will do us all a favour and do this in future instead of muddying the waters continuously.

its a fact not an incredible assertation. although not a good comparasion i 100% agree.

i never said we have mass flu testing or implied it, i said i saw reference to testing (not mass testing). as well as issues with using poor comparisons you have comprehansion issues to.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 03:08:46 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 03:05:04 PM
Quote
I'm the one still awaiting an answer. All you have sought to do is muddy the waters with the most incredible of assertions.

We're not comparing like with like with it comes to case numbers and death totals. To do so we would need mass testing for flu, something we clearly don't have and something you risibily seem to suggest exists (without any evidence offered).

I've already clarified that NISRA figures any death where a positive Covid tests existed within an arbitrary timeframe regardless of whether or not it was the primary cause of death. Now it's very fair to say that if these factors existed for flu, mass testing and arbitrary recording of death as flu related if a positive case exists within a set timeframe as the time of death then both case numbers and deaths would increase by double digit multiples for flu.

If you are going to continue with the fantasy that we carry out mass testing on flu every year then you lose any credibility in this discussion.

you got there in the end.. you have to compare like with like. hopefully you will do us all a favour and do this in future instead of muddying the waters continuously.

its a fact not an incredible assertation. although not a good comparasion i 100% agree.

i never said we have mass flu testing or implied it, i said i saw reference to testing (not mass testing). as well as issues with using poor comparisons you have comprehansion issues to.

So we don't have mass flu testing and as a result we don't have arbitrary recordings of deaths as flu related due to a positive test.

If we did have that criteria in place for flu, both flu cases and deaths would rise by double digit multiples every year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on February 14, 2021, 06:05:09 PM
Weekly update for the ROI. Some decent progress again.

Cases 6,044 (1,126 less than last week)
Reported Deaths 286 (96 less than last week )

In hospital 899 (305 less than last week)
In ICU 160 (18 less than a week ago)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 14, 2021, 06:44:23 PM
Going in the right direction but it's a long haul.

Something for the let it rippers to consider( some of them hopefully have that ability)
9th -13 January
26 - 23,314 cases
6 - 5,663 cases

9th to 13 February
4,427
1,574
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 06:45:17 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 14, 2021, 06:44:23 PM
Going in the right direction but it's a long haul.

Something for the let it rippers to consider( some of them hopefully have that ability)
9th -13 January
26 - 23,314 cases
6 - 5,663 cases

9th to 13 February
4,427
1,574

Are they facts or opinions you've put up?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 06:50:06 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop#:~:text=The%20Gish%20gallop%20is%20a,or%20strength%20of%20those%20arguments.

The Gish gallop is a term for an eristic technique in which a debater attempts to overwhelm an opponent by excessive number of arguments, without regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments. The term was coined by Eugenie Scott; it is named after the creationist Duane Gish, who used the technique frequently against proponents of evolution.[1][2] It is similar to a method used in formal debate called spreading.

During a Gish gallop, a debater confronts an opponent with a rapid series of many specious arguments, half-truths, and misrepresentations in a short space of time, which makes it impossible for the opponent to refute all of them within the format of a formal debate.[3][4] In practice, each point raised by the "Gish galloper" takes considerably more time to refute or fact-check than it did to state in the first place.[5] The technique wastes an opponent's time and may cast doubt on the opponent's debating ability for an audience unfamiliar with the technique, especially if no independent fact-checking is involved[6] or if the audience has limited knowledge of the topics.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 06:51:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 14, 2021, 06:44:23 PM
Going in the right direction but it's a long haul.

Something for the let it rippers to consider( some of them hopefully have that ability)
9th -13 January
26 - 23,314 cases
6 - 5,663 cases

9th to 13 February
4,427
1,574
But but but...this can't be right...I thought lockdowns don't work!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 14, 2021, 07:57:34 PM
I wish I had the figures for 9th to 13th December before the "let it sort of rip" consequences started to manifest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 08:22:34 PM
Sid mustered the balls to call his hero Philly McMahon a fascist yet?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 08:25:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 08:22:34 PM
Sid mustered the balls to call his hero Philly McMahon a fascist yet?
Have you had the balls to seek a psychiatrist yet?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 08:28:15 PM
Here's an excellent thread demolishing the self styled social media grifter "The Fat Emperor", one of the most dangerous purveyors of bullshit on Covid

There's a special place in hell reserved for preying scum like Cummins

https://twitter.com/dr_barrett/status/1360940446650929163
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 09:23:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 08:25:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 08:22:34 PM
Sid mustered the balls to call his hero Philly McMahon a fascist yet?
Have you had the balls to seek a psychiatrist yet?

I take that as a no then.

You're so shallow Sid, theatrical but very shallow.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 09:35:04 PM
Seek professional help, you're a dangerous lunatic
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 10:02:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 14, 2021, 09:35:04 PM
Seek professional help, you're a dangerous lunatic

So that's a no on Philly?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tonto1888 on February 14, 2021, 10:05:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 08:22:34 PM
Sid mustered the balls to call his hero Philly McMahon a fascist yet?

Genuine question. Why would he do that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 10:08:24 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 14, 2021, 10:05:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 08:22:34 PM
Sid mustered the balls to call his hero Philly McMahon a fascist yet?

Genuine question. Why would he do that?

Philly has spoken out against lockdowns on Twitter.

Sid labels anyone who raises the need for a discussion on whether lockdowns are doing more damage than good as a fascist and far right - which of course it isn't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tonto1888 on February 14, 2021, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 10:08:24 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 14, 2021, 10:05:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 08:22:34 PM
Sid mustered the balls to call his hero Philly McMahon a fascist yet?

Genuine question. Why would he do that?

Philly has spoken out against lockdowns on Twitter.

Sid labels anyone who raises the need for a discussion on whether lockdowns are doing more damage than good as a fascist and far right - which of course it isn't.
Ah yeah. I did see that. My own opinion for what it's worth it that these ongoing lockdowns will  cause a lot of damage to people. I know I have been affected. That said I would rather stay in this one until it is safe to come out rather than a constant cycle of going in and out. I have no idea what safe to come out looks like tho before you ask.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 10:12:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 10:08:24 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 14, 2021, 10:05:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 08:22:34 PM
Sid mustered the balls to call his hero Philly McMahon a fascist yet?

Genuine question. Why would he do that?

Philly has spoken out against lockdowns on Twitter.

Sid labels anyone who raises the need for a discussion on whether lockdowns are doing more damage than good as a fascist and far right - which of course it isn't.

Jesus! You are such a balloon

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: restorepride on February 14, 2021, 10:14:49 PM
Typical Belfast - cynical and insulting. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 10:15:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 10:12:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 10:08:24 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 14, 2021, 10:05:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 08:22:34 PM
Sid mustered the balls to call his hero Philly McMahon a fascist yet?

Genuine question. Why would he do that?

Philly has spoken out against lockdowns on Twitter.

Sid labels anyone who raises the need for a discussion on whether lockdowns are doing more damage than good as a fascist and far right - which of course it isn't.

Jesus! You are such a balloon

Sid has labelled posters on here who have questioned whether lockdowns are causing more damage than good as fascists, usually with reference to Putin, the far right, Trump etc.

A few of us are wondering is he going to make the same allegations to Philly McMahon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 10:18:29 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 14, 2021, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 10:08:24 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 14, 2021, 10:05:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 08:22:34 PM
Sid mustered the balls to call his hero Philly McMahon a fascist yet?

Genuine question. Why would he do that?

Philly has spoken out against lockdowns on Twitter.

Sid labels anyone who raises the need for a discussion on whether lockdowns are doing more damage than good as a fascist and far right - which of course it isn't.
Ah yeah. I did see that. My own opinion for what it's worth it that these ongoing lockdowns will  cause a lot of damage to people. I know I have been affected. That said I would rather stay in this one until it is safe to come out rather than a constant cycle of going in and out. I have no idea what safe to come out looks like tho before you ask.

At the very least, it's a debate we should be having.

There is a major issue when we have with people shouting down others for asking questions and challenging whether we are on the right course of action or are we creating more problems for society as a whole?

People like Sid rather than engage in debate, like to shout people down and make outlandish claims against people who they disagree with. He finds himself in agreement with the far right on more than a few things himself so it's odd how everyone who disagrees with him is far right.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2021, 10:21:52 PM
Quote from: restorepride on February 14, 2021, 10:14:49 PM
Typical Belfast - cynical and insulting.

Oh the irony!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tonto1888 on February 14, 2021, 10:23:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 10:18:29 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 14, 2021, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 10:08:24 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 14, 2021, 10:05:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 08:22:34 PM
Sid mustered the balls to call his hero Philly McMahon a fascist yet?

Genuine question. Why would he do that?

Philly has spoken out against lockdowns on Twitter.

Sid labels anyone who raises the need for a discussion on whether lockdowns are doing more damage than good as a fascist and far right - which of course it isn't.
Ah yeah. I did see that. My own opinion for what it's worth it that these ongoing lockdowns will  cause a lot of damage to people. I know I have been affected. That said I would rather stay in this one until it is safe to come out rather than a constant cycle of going in and out. I have no idea what safe to come out looks like tho before you ask.

At the very least, it's a debate we should be having.

There is a major issue when we have with people shouting down others for asking questions and challenging whether we are on the right course of action or we are creating more problems for society as a whole

People like Sid rather than engage in debate like to shout people down and make outlandish claims against people who disagree with. He finds himself in agreement with the far right on more than a few things himself so it's odd how everyone who disagrees with him is far right.

I agree with you on all your points rhere
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 10:31:53 PM
I'd challenge any poster here to do a search on this thread of the contributions of dublin7, Rossfan and Sid. I've had a lot of discussions on this thread, a lot of it heated and so forward but I would generally think we have tried to state our side of the argument.

The three posters mentioned above have only sought to lower this thread into outright lies, misrepresentations and sensationalism.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 14, 2021, 10:32:00 PM
Tonto just to clarify that if you believe that we are screwed without lockdown because nhs etc will be overrun then you have shown no concern for the flu victims of 2018, car accident victims, alcoholics, people's mental health and the list goes on. 

That is what would classify as debate by this poster ;D

Also you can only deal in facts but they can make bonkers extrapolations of a) your opinion and b) facts and tell everyone it is logical.

You also can't use anything relating to insults but can be called a coward at any point for not defending what you didn't say but the aforementioned "logic" drew a conclusion of.

In addition you can take any story no matter how related or unrelated and twist it to prove everyone wrong and you right irrespective if it is completely unrelated.

That is the debate being called for here. You couldn't make it up - well actually most of it is made up ;D (unless you are a person who is no more than a wum with a lot of time on your hands .)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2021, 10:39:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 14, 2021, 10:32:00 PM
Tonto just to clarify that if you believe that we are screwed without lockdown because nhs etc will be overrun then you have shown no concern for the flu victims of 2018, car accident victims, alcoholics, people's mental health and the list goes on. 

That is what would classify as debate by this poster ;D

Also you can only deal in facts but they can make bonkers extrapolations of a) your opinion and b) facts and tell everyone it is logical.

You also can't use anything relating to insults but can be called a coward at any point for not defending what you didn't say but the aforementioned "logic" drew a conclusion of.

In addition you can take any story no matter how related or unrelated and twist it to prove everyone wrong and you right irrespective if it is completely unrelated.

That is the debate being called for here. You couldn't make it up - well actually most of it is made up ;D (unless you are a person who is no more than a wum with a lot of time on your hands .)

this... but it is a pity that more discussion cannot take place without the above.. ive done some reading on what is considered seasonal today and would have had a different definition in my head prior to that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 14, 2021, 10:52:19 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 14, 2021, 10:32:00 PM
Tonto just to clarify that if you believe that we are screwed without lockdown because nhs etc will be overrun then you have shown no concern for the flu victims of 2018, car accident victims, alcoholics, people's mental health and the list goes on. 

That is what would classify as debate by this poster ;D

Also you can only deal in facts but they can make bonkers extrapolations of a) your opinion and b) facts and tell everyone it is logical.

You also can't use anything relating to insults but can be called a coward at any point for not defending what you didn't say but the aforementioned "logic" drew a conclusion of.

In addition you can take any story no matter how related or unrelated and twist it to prove everyone wrong and you right irrespective if it is completely unrelated.

That is the debate being called for here. You couldn't make it up - well actually most of it is made up ;D (unless you are a person who is no more than a wum with a lot of time on your hands .)

It's not my problem you have huge issue with your own contradictions.

You're ok with half measures for every other cause of death bar Covid. Why can't you see the contradiction there?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on February 14, 2021, 11:17:21 PM
(https://www.startpage.com/av/proxy-image?piurl=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FEuMnFQOWgAIMvHf.jpg&sp=1613400494T91765ed5ce95c834a3f99aac718c32f3a389b10421ca0b472ffd29f3a17025bc)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 15, 2021, 07:36:28 AM
Good debate. QED

PHP I am far from an expert on any of this so it is good to learn stuff. Posters like radiogaagaa, Ed rickets and a few other ones were very interesting to read on this subject. The thread is just filled with nonsense now. Ignore is the best medicine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 15, 2021, 10:50:27 AM
Get ready for the schools to go back. The PR machine has started.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56061942
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on February 15, 2021, 01:30:29 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 15, 2021, 10:50:27 AM
Get ready for the schools to go back. The PR machine has started.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56061942

I find the tone of the argument generally disappointing from both sides in relation to the schools. Should we really need a PR machine to get children back to school?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 15, 2021, 01:34:39 PM
There's some level of bullshit re the schools.

If they were perfectly safe and not a risk of transmission then they should never have closes.

Why is it ok for supermarket workers, nurses and doctors to work in the conditions they are but not for teachers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 15, 2021, 01:50:52 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on February 15, 2021, 01:30:29 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 15, 2021, 10:50:27 AM
Get ready for the schools to go back. The PR machine has started.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56061942

I find the tone of the argument generally disappointing from both sides in relation to the schools. Should we really need a PR machine to get children back to school?

I agree, but generally the approach is / was close anything that might even be a potential to cause issue, no thought involved. People get annoyed by this "its not a problem" then a few weeks later "oh it is a problem now" thing.

I never agreed with things like car washes / click and collect etc closing personally, but if you have to close them, you had to close the schools by the same token.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Look-Up! on February 16, 2021, 01:31:58 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 26, 2021, 09:47:07 AM
Anyone know hotel rates for other countries with mandatory quarantine or the likely rates they will charge here for the 6 days or so in hotel. Can't see it being too shy of €100/day but wouldn't surprise me if hotels try drive the arm in.

Well I was a bit out. Looks like about 1750 quid in UK for a 10 day stint in quarantine. I would say that's prohibitive for most people travelling willy nilly. In hindsight probably would have been a better alternative here from the start (for all incoming) and might have kept the local economy more open and people happier (providing NI was on the same hymn sheet).
Look to be hedging their bets here still and hope it all blows over without having to introduce such drastic measures. Hope the gamble pays off, well sick of this shite at this stage. 
 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 16, 2021, 11:33:59 AM
Yep doctors and nurses shouldn't be working during a pandemic ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 16, 2021, 11:41:05 AM
So Thursday review in the North....

Anyone expecting anything?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 16, 2021, 12:42:10 PM
Mire bad news for Angela on the "big pharma" front ....
40% of our exports from the 26 last year was pharma and medical - €62Bn out of €160Bn.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 16, 2021, 12:44:13 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 16, 2021, 11:41:05 AM
So Thursday review in the North....

Anyone expecting anything?

Maybe schools?

There seems to be lots of lobbying for childrens sports too. Maybe something on that front.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 16, 2021, 01:39:43 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 16, 2021, 01:22:53 PM

https://youtu.be/IHzMkpxqRIc

wonder how long this will be up before being pulled.

If it's 5 minutes that's 5 minutes too long.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 16, 2021, 01:44:10 PM
Interesting in Holland

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56084466
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 05:58:06 PM
Must get a few of the pro lockdown geniuses to explain India to the scientists here. Padraic Henry Pearse will set them straight sure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 16, 2021, 06:26:29 PM
So the south of Ireland will implement a plan on Tuesday with the amount of people vaccinated as the golding ticket for restrictions being lifted
Goalposts being moved?
Do they know what they are at?
The north meeting Thursday to see what will be lifted!!!
Thursday and an announcement due the same day
You couldn't make it up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 16, 2021, 06:33:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 05:58:06 PM
Must get a few of the pro lockdown geniuses to explain India to the scientists here. Padraic Henry Pearse will set them straight sure.


a quick google will show you there are varying theories and even an article on the journal today about it. But as you seem to know whats going on why not share it. you obviously think you know more than the science community.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 16, 2021, 06:34:33 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 16, 2021, 06:26:29 PM
So the south of Ireland will implement a plan on Tuesday with the amount of people vaccinated as the golding ticket for restrictions being lifted
Goalposts being moved?
Do they know what they are at?
The north meeting Thursday to see what will be lifted!!!
Thursday and an announcement due the same day
You couldn't make it up

ive no idea what you are trying to say. ill wait to see what the plan looks like before i comment on it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 16, 2021, 07:43:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 05:58:06 PM
Must get a few of the pro lockdown geniuses to explain India to the scientists here. Padraic Henry Pearse will set them straight sure.

Was watching the channel 4 news and they have said there could be various reasons,  ranging from, half their population is below the age of 25, they have built up herd immunity, they have been living with all sorts of diseases like cholera and so and their immune system is better suited.

Though the Indian experts who were on haven't the foggiest idea in truth. But I'm hoping you can tell us. Might find a link on Amnesty international.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 16, 2021, 08:34:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 16, 2021, 07:43:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 05:58:06 PM
Must get a few of the pro lockdown geniuses to explain India to the scientists here. Padraic Henry Pearse will set them straight sure.

Was watching the channel 4 news and they have said there could be various reasons,  ranging from, half their population is below the age of 25, they have built up herd immunity, they have been living with all sorts of diseases like cholera and so and their immune system is better suited.

Though the Indian experts who were on haven't the foggiest idea in truth. But I'm hoping you can tell us. Might find a link on Amnesty international.

I tried RT but no joy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 08:43:07 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 16, 2021, 06:33:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 05:58:06 PM
Must get a few of the pro lockdown geniuses to explain India to the scientists here. Padraic Henry Pearse will set them straight sure.


a quick google will show you there are varying theories and even an article on the journal today about it. But as you seem to know whats going on why not share it. you obviously think you know more than the science community.

I know one thing we can rule out - lockdown.

India haven't had a lockdown since last June.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 16, 2021, 08:50:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 08:43:07 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 16, 2021, 06:33:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 05:58:06 PM
Must get a few of the pro lockdown geniuses to explain India to the scientists here. Padraic Henry Pearse will set them straight sure.


a quick google will show you there are varying theories and even an article on the journal today about it. But as you seem to know whats going on why not share it. you obviously think you know more than the science community.

I know one thing we can rule out - lockdown.

India haven't had a lockdown since last June.

With 1.4 billion people having a lockdown would be impossible to ensure. The family culture wouldn't allow it, all generations living under one roof. The reasons given above are from the experts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on February 16, 2021, 08:51:23 PM
Reading today they may have reached Herd Immunity - cases were continually under reported and/or undiagnosed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 16, 2021, 08:58:19 PM
Mumbai Mayor has actually issued a warning today about surging cases and threatened a return to lockdown.

India have had several phases of restrictions.

Heard Robbie Fowler talking about his experience of managing in the Indian Premier league. It's been run in a hard lockdown bubble in Goa. All teams based in individual hotels - they not allowed out only to train and play matches. Can't leave hotel and limited area of hotel they can visit. All teams based in Goa.

Not exactly living the dream of freedom.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 08:59:48 PM
Robbie Fowler - leading epidemiologist.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on February 16, 2021, 08:59:56 PM
Paris under a 6pm to 5am curfew ,during second world war they had a 9pm to 5am .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 16, 2021, 09:02:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 08:59:48 PM
Robbie Fowler - leading epidemiologist.

Well better listening to someone with current experience of living there than someone from let's say,  Tyrone  ;)

Whether he's leading epidemiologist isn't up for debate, he never said he was
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 16, 2021, 09:04:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 08:59:48 PM
Robbie Fowler - leading epidemiologist.

Shows your level of debate.

He said what his living conditions are, give no commentary on Covid itself.

Very easy to understand from above.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 09:23:00 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 16, 2021, 09:04:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 08:59:48 PM
Robbie Fowler - leading epidemiologist.

Shows your level of debate.

He said what his living conditions are, give no commentary on Covid itself.

Very easy to understand from above.

You seem to invest yourself a lot in the words of Liverpool and Man Utd figures
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 16, 2021, 09:26:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 09:23:00 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 16, 2021, 09:04:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 08:59:48 PM
Robbie Fowler - leading epidemiologist.

Shows your level of debate.

He said what his living conditions are, give no commentary on Covid itself.

Very easy to understand from above.

You seem to invest yourself a lot in the words of Liverpool and Man Utd figures

Was actually on a podcast with one of your former Celtic greats - Kenny Dalglish. A great character and worth a listen. Enjoy all those type of podcasts.

I'd recommend you listen but unfortunately a podcast involves having to listen and not sure you'd be capable of that.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 09:31:46 PM
Dalglish is a ****.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 16, 2021, 09:33:41 PM
India not turning out to be Angelo's smoking gun after all.

Pity that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 16, 2021, 09:40:54 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 16, 2021, 09:33:41 PM
India not turning out to be Angelo's smoking gun after all.

Pity that.
Don't worry, he's furiously studying the "Covid-19 pandemic in Bhutan" Wikipedia page and will report back shortly with a devastating argument which will have posters trembling with fear and begging for mercy, even questioning their very existence
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 16, 2021, 09:43:55 PM
Work this one out
South Africa where the SA variant is most dominant they have recorded the lowest daily cases in almost 8 months
They have lifted lots of restrictions this 3 weeks
Any thoughts??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 16, 2021, 09:53:02 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 16, 2021, 09:43:35 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 16, 2021, 09:26:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 09:23:00 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 16, 2021, 09:04:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 16, 2021, 08:59:48 PM
Robbie Fowler - leading epidemiologist.

Shows your level of debate.

He said what his living conditions are, give no commentary on Covid itself.

Very easy to understand from above.

You seem to invest yourself a lot in the words of Liverpool and Man Utd figures

Was actually on a podcast with one of your former Celtic greats - Kenny Dalglish. A great character and worth a listen. Enjoy all those type of podcasts.

I'd recommend you listen but unfortunately a podcast involves having to listen and not sure you'd be capable of that.
Louther, I'd recommend you check out the ignore function rather than 'debating' with the mentally deranged moron!

Yeah, noted. Long past paying any attention to him. No harm pointing out a few points now and again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 16, 2021, 09:53:09 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 16, 2021, 09:43:55 PM
Work this one out
South Africa where the SA variant is most dominant they have recorded the lowest daily cases in almost 8 months
They have lifted lots of restrictions this 3 weeks
Any thoughts??

I'm waiting on kevin keegan discussing it, he'd been there recently
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 16, 2021, 10:03:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 16, 2021, 09:53:09 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 16, 2021, 09:43:55 PM
Work this one out
South Africa where the SA variant is most dominant they have recorded the lowest daily cases in almost 8 months
They have lifted lots of restrictions this 3 weeks
Any thoughts??

I'm waiting on kevin keegan discussing it, he'd been there recently
I hope he didn't go there and get something
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on February 16, 2021, 10:03:59 PM
Id love it if he did that. Love it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 17, 2021, 07:02:47 AM
Good one Milly you fool

So the top brass in children's mental health now calling the handling of children as a National travesty
Lock them down

Also 10 million waiting list in the UK

SERIOUSLY

Wonder what milly and the boys think of that

Milly fire the slippers on for another day in front of the fire
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 17, 2021, 07:25:19 AM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on February 16, 2021, 10:03:59 PM
Id love it if he did that. Love it
;D

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 17, 2021, 07:59:37 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 17, 2021, 07:02:47 AM
Good one Milly you fool

So the top brass in children's mental health now calling the handling of children as a National travesty
Lock them down

Also 10 million waiting list in the UK

SERIOUSLY

Wonder what milly and the boys think of that

Milly fire the slippers on for another day in front of the fire

10 million waiting list for what? A haircut? You make absolutely no sense in your posts, ever!

The top brass? Throw up a link please, it's not that I don't believe you nor do I think that kids are not suffering but I'd like to read through the article.

I've kids, before lockdown they went out or stayed in their room, came down for food and money and went back to their room.. lockdown, they stay in their room and come down for food and money to buy things on line! I'm personally not seeing a wile bit of difference! They are fed up but thankfully not suffering, ones living in Halls in Belfast, drinking with her student pals, seems fine!

These are just my experiences, I want lockdown done today btw, work wise I'd be busier, cause I'm in work daily with my slippers on!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on February 17, 2021, 10:02:00 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 17, 2021, 07:02:47 AM
Good one Milly you fool

So the top brass in children's mental health now calling the handling of children as a National travesty
Lock them down

Also 10 million waiting list in the UK

SERIOUSLY

Wonder what milly and the boys think of that

Milly fire the slippers on for another day in front of the fire

The top lads with their big jobs might have a a vested interest in calling this? The fall out in children's metal health "could" keep them in jobs for years to come.

I smell a big Pharma type conspiracy here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 17, 2021, 10:05:19 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 16, 2021, 08:59:56 PM
Paris under a 6pm to 5am curfew ,during second world war they had a 9pm to 5am .

Expect a legal challenge to that now Holland has set a precedent.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 17, 2021, 11:30:37 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 17, 2021, 10:05:19 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 16, 2021, 08:59:56 PM
Paris under a 6pm to 5am curfew ,during second world war they had a 9pm to 5am .

Expect a legal challenge to that now Holland has set a precedent.

The dutch government have appealed the decision and the ban will remain in place until the appeal is heard. They will pass the legislation required before the appeal and they'll have the decision overturned and the lockdown kept in place until they decide otherwise.

Similar cases have been taken in other countries such as the US and the UK and in each case the judge has decided in favour of the government.   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 18, 2021, 07:02:07 AM
Big big day today

A lot of futures on the line

Will the government be pro active or will they just continue with lockdown

Children's health at stake also

We have done our job the government had badly failed us

Track and trace
Health service
Communication
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 18, 2021, 08:32:13 AM
I wouldn't be holding my breath. IMO they may consider, and consider only, two things. Schools and outdoor sports for kids. There's nothing I have read anywhere to suggest there will be any form of relaxation on anything but I hope I am wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on February 18, 2021, 09:24:58 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 18, 2021, 08:32:13 AM
I wouldn't be holding my breath. IMO they may consider, and consider only, two things. Schools and outdoor sports for kids. There's nothing I have read anywhere to suggest there will be any form of relaxation on anything but I hope I am wrong.

Primary schools to go first seems to be the general train of thought. Older kids nearer Easter it seems
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on February 18, 2021, 12:59:28 PM
Jayne McCormick BBC reporter on twitter.

"Hearing NI's lockdown restrictions could be extended until early April - details in a paper from the health minister Robin Swann. Another review would then take place mid-March. Health officials want to ensure progress so far not hit by socialising over St Patrick's Day/Easter"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 18, 2021, 01:09:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 18, 2021, 12:59:28 PM
Jayne McCormick BBC reporter on twitter.

"Hearing NI's lockdown restrictions could be extended until early April - details in a paper from the health minister Robin Swann. Another review would then take place mid-March. Health officials want to ensure progress so far not hit by socialising over St Patrick's Day/Easter"
People are gonna meet up over Easter and Paddys day either way, same as Christmas. Not too many listening to the clowns on the hill any more.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on February 18, 2021, 01:16:02 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 18, 2021, 01:09:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 18, 2021, 12:59:28 PM
Jayne McCormick BBC reporter on twitter.

"Hearing NI's lockdown restrictions could be extended until early April - details in a paper from the health minister Robin Swann. Another review would then take place mid-March. Health officials want to ensure progress so far not hit by socialising over St Patrick's Day/Easter"
People are gonna meet up over Easter and Paddys day either way, same as Christmas. Not too many listening to the clowns on the hill any more.

Given there was a huge spike in cases/people in hospital and deaths post Christmas maybe they should have listened. I can't see too much meeting up for St Patricks Day given there's nothing happening. Easter will be a lot quieter than Christmas too with less travelling. Hopefully by then numbers will still be low and a lot more people vaccinated. Might as well hold out a few months now and then try and open up properly and stop these cycles. Will cause more disruption to businesses opening now then having to close again because of a spike.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 18, 2021, 01:21:48 PM
The hospitality sector should probably stay closed until such time as they can open up with very light restrictions - probably May or June.

Sports and outdoor activities should be brought back into play straight away like we had  last summer. The evenings are getting longer now and people have been confined to their own quarters for too long.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 18, 2021, 01:31:23 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 18, 2021, 01:09:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 18, 2021, 12:59:28 PM
Jayne McCormick BBC reporter on twitter.

"Hearing NI's lockdown restrictions could be extended until early April - details in a paper from the health minister Robin Swann. Another review would then take place mid-March. Health officials want to ensure progress so far not hit by socialising over St Patrick's Day/Easter"
People are gonna meet up over Easter and Paddys day either way, same as Christmas. Not too many listening to the clowns on the hill any more.
Yep, let's get Covid spreading like mad again just like December.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 18, 2021, 01:41:24 PM
You can avoid those things - bar the idiots - without opening everything up. If you work on the premise that people will misbehave over holidays then you can't open up before st patricks day, easter, july 12th etc. You'll always find something.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on February 18, 2021, 02:13:02 PM
The outdoor sport should be up and going ASAP, really minimal risk, even just for peoples sanity, get out kick a ball lift a hurl. If they are gonna keep places closed at least that would be something to give people a bit of an outlet, even for some going and watching their young lad or girl training would be a welcome break from this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 18, 2021, 02:32:50 PM
Yeah I would agree with that.

I don't think a massive lot should change with restrictions but keeping restrictions in place in case people misbehave during a holiday feels to me to be all wrong.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 18, 2021, 03:04:07 PM
QuoteMinisters have agreed that preschool children and primary classes up to P3 will return to school on 8 March, will remote learning will continue for others.
Secondary school pupils in key exam years - year groups 12 to 14 - will, however, return to face-to-face teaching on 22 March.

Some movement according to someone who posted this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on February 18, 2021, 03:14:51 PM
our politicians are so so lazy, the data is suggesting some restrictions should be lifting, especially with the bit of the turn in the weather especially for outdoors. but no, we dont trust people to not party over Patricks day and Easter so we will take the easiest option available to us and just keep all current restrictions in place, so so depressing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on February 18, 2021, 03:33:35 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on February 18, 2021, 03:14:51 PM
our politicians are so so lazy, the data is suggesting some restrictions should be lifting, especially with the bit of the turn in the weather especially for outdoors. but no, we dont trust people to not party over Patricks day and Easter so we will take the easiest option available to us and just keep all current restrictions in place, so so depressing

Agree 100%. If St Patricks day and Easter are likely to be a problem, shut everything for those few days but otherwise start lifting restrictions as soon as you can.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 18, 2021, 03:35:09 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on February 18, 2021, 03:14:51 PM
our politicians are so so lazy, the data is suggesting some restrictions should be lifting, especially with the bit of the turn in the weather especially for outdoors. but no, we dont trust people to not party over Patricks day and Easter so we will take the easiest option available to us and just keep all current restrictions in place, so so depressing
Do you really think people won't party over Paddy's day? ???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on February 18, 2021, 03:39:06 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 18, 2021, 03:35:09 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on February 18, 2021, 03:14:51 PM
our politicians are so so lazy, the data is suggesting some restrictions should be lifting, especially with the bit of the turn in the weather especially for outdoors. but no, we dont trust people to not party over Patricks day and Easter so we will take the easiest option available to us and just keep all current restrictions in place, so so depressing
Do you really think people won't party over Paddy's day? ???

No cause I didn't come up the Lagan in a bubble, but that is the flimsy bullsh*t excuse that is being rolled out, again, as we've already seen all its gonna do is drive more people in doors and in to smaller more condensed spaces.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 18, 2021, 03:46:38 PM
Could ye  ot  all just act like adults for another  6 ir 8 weeks?

It seems our 2 resident virologists got it wrong again
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/37-children-under-the-age-of-12-hospitalised-with-covid-over-past-fortnight-40106003.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on February 18, 2021, 03:52:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 18, 2021, 03:46:38 PM
Could ye  ot  all just act like adults for another  6 ir 8 weeks?

It seems our 2 resident virologists got it wrong again
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/37-children-under-the-age-of-12-hospitalised-with-covid-over-past-fortnight-40106003.html
[/quote

Serious question Rossfan, do you think we should stay in lockdowns until we are 0 hospital admissions? we were asked to give it January, pissed off but everyone rowed in, then again asked to give it feb to get the vaccine to start driving numbers down, again not great but ok. Now were being asked to wait to April so people won't congregate and potentially drive up numbers?

people aren't being given the opportunity to act like adults, we are being treated like children.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cavan19 on February 18, 2021, 04:00:16 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on February 18, 2021, 03:52:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 18, 2021, 03:46:38 PM
Could ye  ot  all just act like adults for another  6 ir 8 weeks?

It seems our 2 resident virologists got it wrong again
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/37-children-under-the-age-of-12-hospitalised-with-covid-over-past-fortnight-40106003.html
[/quote

Serious question Rossfan, do you think we should stay in lockdowns until we are 0 hospital admissions? we were asked to give it January, pissed off but everyone rowed in, then again asked to give it feb to get the vaccine to start driving numbers down, again not great but ok. Now were being asked to wait to April so people won't congregate and potentially drive up numbers?

people aren't being given the opportunity to act like adults, we are being treated like children.

They had the opportunity in the lead up to Christmas and you seen what happened.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on February 18, 2021, 04:07:35 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 18, 2021, 04:00:16 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on February 18, 2021, 03:52:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 18, 2021, 03:46:38 PM
Could ye  ot  all just act like adults for another  6 ir 8 weeks?

It seems our 2 resident virologists got it wrong again
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/37-children-under-the-age-of-12-hospitalised-with-covid-over-past-fortnight-40106003.html
[/quote

Serious question Rossfan, do you think we should stay in lockdowns until we are 0 hospital admissions? we were asked to give it January, pissed off but everyone rowed in, then again asked to give it feb to get the vaccine to start driving numbers down, again not great but ok. Now were being asked to wait to April so people won't congregate and potentially drive up numbers?

people aren't being given the opportunity to act like adults, we are being treated like children.

They had the opportunity in the lead up to Christmas and you seen what happened.

Brilliant, lets just keep people in lockdowns then because some people were d*cks at Christmas, seriously do you think there are no house parties etc happening now? do you think people aren't going and meeting friends in their houses? You cant treat people like children all the time, people need something to live for, the mood I see in people is through the floor. im not talking about opening pubs in March, clearly that would be stupid. but the vaccine roll out is going well, the weather is getting a bit nicer, wee bit more daylight in the evenings. Wouldn't it be possible to say to people, 'ok the numbers are going in the right direction we are gonna let a few households mix in outdoor spaces again, gonna let sports teams go back training non contact for 4 weeks initially. small things make a big difference, that could boost so many people with a few things that are very very low risk, would there be people take the p*ss and abuse it? of course there would, but are they the same people who are ignoring the current regulations? yes! why punish everyone because of some selfish arseholes who are gonna do their own thing regardless
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on February 18, 2021, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on February 18, 2021, 04:00:16 PM
They had the opportunity in the lead up to Christmas and you seen what happened.

That seems to be an argument for never ever opening anything again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 18, 2021, 04:43:40 PM
Yes and this also is a blanket statement to a) shut down arguments and b) fail to recognise that restrictions on the whole are not binary and actually there are(or should be) varying degrees of granularity.

Don't get me wrong I don't think too many restrictions should be lifted but to say it's because of holidays is nonsense - just don't change the bubble rules.

I am guessing things like hairdressers and cafes would be first to lift. Arguably cafes would be impacted by holidays. How would hairdressers be? Particularly when you need appointments... (Maybe there are valid studies into why they shouldn't be which is fair enough but being open towards holidays is not one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on February 18, 2021, 04:50:37 PM
I get the impression that this is to be the last lockdown and I definitely welcome that. But that is why they're are going to ultra cautious. If another month or two now means a semi normal summer and winter then I am all for that. It's tough I really get that, I find it really hard but if it's another 2 months of this in return for normality, then that is what it has to be.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 18, 2021, 04:52:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2021, 04:50:37 PM
I get the impression that this is to be the last lockdown and I definitely welcome that. But that is why they're are going to ultra cautious. If another month or two now means a semi normal summer and winter then I am all for that. It's tough I really get that, I find it really hard but if it's another 2 months of this in return for normality, then that is what it has to be.

Also they need to open slowly to calibrate the effect of this new variant which does spread more easily. The whole Christmas thing was made much worse by the new variant.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on February 18, 2021, 05:21:28 PM
Did I hear it right that the P1-P3s are going back on the 8th March and then back to home schooling for 2 wks when the 5th-7th years go back on the 22nd March ?  Why would that be the case when they are in 2 different schools ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: whitegoodman on February 18, 2021, 05:22:43 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2021, 04:50:37 PM
I get the impression that this is to be the last lockdown and I definitely welcome that. But that is why they're are going to ultra cautious. If another month or two now means a semi normal summer and winter then I am all for that. It's tough I really get that, I find it really hard but if it's another 2 months of this in return for normality, then that is what it has to be.

There is no way to guarantee this.  It is likely to be the case that there will be another lockdown come next October/November if the variants escape the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 18, 2021, 06:14:19 PM
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 18, 2021, 05:22:43 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2021, 04:50:37 PM
I get the impression that this is to be the last lockdown and I definitely welcome that. But that is why they're are going to ultra cautious. If another month or two now means a semi normal summer and winter then I am all for that. It's tough I really get that, I find it really hard but if it's another 2 months of this in return for normality, then that is what it has to be.

There is no way to guarantee this.  It is likely to be the case that there will be another lockdown come next October/November if the variants escape the vaccine.
This needs to be the last one never mind this bullshit with new variants. Good luck trying to get people to listen to anything beyond April, especially with the vulnerable vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 18, 2021, 06:28:43 PM
 ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 18, 2021, 07:20:58 PM
I can't wait till it's over, just so the PT's can stop moaning about how worried they are about people's mental health!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on February 18, 2021, 07:30:54 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 18, 2021, 07:20:58 PM
I can't wait till it's over, just so the PT's can stop moaning about how worried they are about people's mental health!

What you don't believe them ?  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 18, 2021, 07:36:55 PM
And what?
A child goes into hospital with covid related symptoms?
What's so big about that?
You never hear of a child going in with Flu symptoms?
What is the reason primary 1-2-3 return?
In some European countries children don't start until they are 7
I don't think St Patrick's day or Easter will be anywhere like Christmas
What is there to do?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 18, 2021, 07:48:03 PM
Some head doc on the radio was saying most of the people in ICU are under 70
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 18, 2021, 10:08:43 PM
Have you a link Milly??

What's the big deal with someone under 20 heading to hospital with covid related symptoms??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 18, 2021, 10:12:27 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 18, 2021, 10:08:43 PM
Have you a link Milly??

What's the big deal with someone under 20 heading to hospital with covid related symptoms??

Was on radio five live, around 5.30 or just before. I'm sure it'll be on some playback miffy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 18, 2021, 10:26:54 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 18, 2021, 03:46:38 PM
Could ye  ot  all just act like adults for another  6 ir 8 weeks?

It seems our 2 resident virologists got it wrong again
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/37-children-under-the-age-of-12-hospitalised-with-covid-over-past-fortnight-40106003.html

Could you try and act like an adult for one day in your life?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on February 18, 2021, 10:32:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 18, 2021, 07:48:03 PM
Some head doc on the radio was saying most of the people in ICU are under 70

Average age of those in ICU in the UK was 59 in the first big wave last year, and about 60 during this wave.

ICU beds are given to those who are likely to benefit most - typically younger patients. The vast majority of these individuals survive. However, the pressures on the system, along with various pragmatic considerations, mean a lot of the over-80s dying from Covid never see the inside of an ICU unit.

Younger Covid survivors that end up in ICU do not contribute to the death stats, but it is the resources channelled into saving the lives of these people that have the hospitals bunged to the stage that the health service no longer functions. This point is usually ignored by those whose viewpoint seems to be informed exclusively by death stats.

It's also important to note that many of these hospital bunging survivors are from groups that will not be offered a vaccine for many months yet - a reason for patience.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 18, 2021, 10:55:13 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on February 18, 2021, 10:32:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 18, 2021, 07:48:03 PM
Some head doc on the radio was saying most of the people in ICU are under 70

Average age of those in ICU in the UK was 59 in the first big wave last year, and about 60 during this wave.

ICU beds are given to those who are likely to benefit most - typically younger patients. The vast majority of these individuals survive. However, the pressures on the system, along with various pragmatic considerations, mean a lot of the over-80s dying from Covid never see the inside of an ICU unit.

Younger Covid survivors that end up in ICU do not contribute to the death stats, but it is the resources channelled into saving the lives of these people that have the hospitals bunged to the stage that the health service no longer functions. This point is usually ignored by those whose viewpoint seems to be informed exclusively by death stats.

It's also important to note that many of these hospital bunging survivors are from groups that will not be offered a vaccine for many months yet - a reason for patience.

In reference to the over 80s, maybe someone will have an answer on this.

What % of nursing home patients ever make it to ICU before they die? I'm not just talking about Covid here, I'm talking about any ailment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 18, 2021, 11:01:04 PM
Well you said they'll be dead before the years out. So don't bother sending them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 19, 2021, 07:13:43 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/justeconomics/status/1356591260648300545

Most Covid cases are in younger age groups while most death is in old people, having been infected mainly by younger people. This should have been called out by NPHET and govt a long time ago.

https://mobile.twitter.com/IrishDataViz/status/1355799228501651459
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 19, 2021, 07:41:35 AM
Milly what's your thoughts on the extended lockdown?

Strange classes to bring back

Making it up as they go along?

2 house holds with 10 or less can meet up from March 8 but 2 households with 4 can't meet up for a game of golf?

I can meet 9 others from another house and walk the golf course but can't meet 3 others and play?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on February 19, 2021, 07:48:13 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 19, 2021, 07:13:43 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/justeconomics/status/1356591260648300545

Most Covid cases are in younger age groups while most death is in old people, having been infected mainly by younger people. This should have been called out by NPHET and govt a long time ago.

https://mobile.twitter.com/IrishDataViz/status/1355799228501651459

Just a question, how can this be proven? Especially given that a high number of older people who got the virus was in either a care home or hospital? I'm not defending the actions of younger people who a lot of the time have had W reckless actions but the line I've highlighted seems very much a case of blame young people to deflect from other areas
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 19, 2021, 08:01:55 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on February 19, 2021, 07:48:13 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 19, 2021, 07:13:43 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/justeconomics/status/1356591260648300545

Most Covid cases are in younger age groups while most death is in old people, having been infected mainly by younger people. This should have been called out by NPHET and govt a long time ago.

https://mobile.twitter.com/IrishDataViz/status/1355799228501651459

Just a question, how can this be proven? Especially given that a high number of older people who got the virus was in either a care home or hospital? I'm not defending the actions of younger people who a lot of the time have had W reckless actions but the line I've highlighted seems very much a case of blame young people to deflect from other areas

Seafood talking through his arse as usual.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 08:16:41 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 19, 2021, 07:41:35 AM
Milly what's your thoughts on the extended lockdown?

Strange classes to bring back

Making it up as they go along?

2 house holds with 10 or less can meet up from March 8 but 2 households with 4 can't meet up for a game of golf?

I can meet 9 others from another house and walk the golf course but can't meet 3 others and play?

It's not so much the kids going back to school, but the mass movement around it. With the more contagious UK variant the government are trying to be careful not opening up too quickly given the Covid disaster that was Christmas.

The same applies to Golf, GAA etc. Each on their own could be considered ok, but opening a load of little things can lead to big issues
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 19, 2021, 09:19:24 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 19, 2021, 07:41:35 AM
Milly what's your thoughts on the extended lockdown?

Strange classes to bring back

Making it up as they go along?

2 house holds with 10 or less can meet up from March 8 but 2 households with 4 can't meet up for a game of golf?

I can meet 9 others from another house and walk the golf course but can't meet 3 others and play?

For starters you don't know 9 people so that hasn't any effect on you anyways

Making it up from the start, not one poster will say any different

Why open up when we have people getting infected at the rate we have and hospital admissions still high and ICU units being filled? lets get single digit figures and more people vaccinated..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on February 19, 2021, 09:41:05 AM
Milltown's Milly Millhouse!  :D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 19, 2021, 09:42:31 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on February 19, 2021, 09:41:05 AM
Milltown's Milly Millhouse!  :D

I'm scundered for him to be fair
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on February 19, 2021, 09:46:14 AM
Yes probably meeting friends for a game of golf or even tennis or whatever is probably safe. But it goes against the overall message which is stay at home. Do I like it? No. Do I understand it? Yes.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on February 19, 2021, 12:44:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 19, 2021, 09:46:14 AM
Yes probably meeting friends for a game of golf or even tennis or whatever is probably safe. But it goes against the overall message which is stay at home. Do I like it? No. Do I understand it? Yes.

Yeah, for months there have been individual restrictions that have been difficult to justify in isolation, but the authorities seem to have belatedly understood that continuity of message is crucial.

People just don't do granularity very well, particularly when it's not well communicated. Last year demonstrated this, with widespread complaints that advice was confusing and seemed inconsistent. More nefarious individuals cited this confusion when attempting to dismiss the credibility of the advice, and even the concept of restrictions altogether.

Another related, and also poorly communicated, consideration has been the difference between cumulative risk and relative risk. Still people argue that because they are permitted to do Activity X they should therefore be permitted to do Activity Y, which they deem to be relatively less risky with regard to exposure to the virus.

But relative risk doesn't really matter, and is a poor way of calibrating your risk tolerance. It's the cumulative risk of everything you do in a day/ week/ whatever that determines your risk exposure - so cutting out any non-essential stuff (like golf, for example) will help, even if you are still going ahead with other activities with more risk.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 04:47:12 PM
Vaccination is the way to go and all governments should be using their resources to purchase and distribute it not spending their time and money on locking up people and paying them off for staying at home ,at the same time small businesses fold for no reason as most things should be open with regulations.golf and outdoor activities should all be open and welcome people again with regulations.
Hopefully we will learn from this and be a little smarter next time .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 19, 2021, 04:57:36 PM
I see we have 13 people who died in hospice as Covid deaths.

Is that not incredible?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 05:03:43 PM
Good oul right-wing Gmac!
We should have been vaccinating people not locking them up.
Does he realise the Vaccinations only came on stream 9 or 10 months later.
But I suppose when you go full Yank rwnj you leave all your brains aside.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 19, 2021, 05:05:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 05:03:43 PM
Good oul right-wing Gmac!
We should have been vaccinating people not locking them up.
Does he realise the Vaccinations only came on stream 9 or 10 months later.
But I suppose when you go full Yank rwnj you leave all your brains aside.
Aye so why are we still being locked up and vaccinations being done at a snails pce.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 19, 2021, 05:10:32 PM
Good one Milly about the 9 friends
So original
Don't agree with Ross he try's to make you look small
Get the slippers on for the foreseeable Ross
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 19, 2021, 05:17:43 PM
So the data up to today in the O6 states.

0-19 - 14,461 cases; 1 death (0.0069% fatality rate)
20-39 - 40,194 cases; 5 deaths (0.0124% fatality rate)
40-59 - 33,824 cases; 92 death (0.272% fatality rate)
60-79 - 15,190 cases; 684 deaths (4.503% fatality rate)
80+ - 6,497 cases; 1,243 deaths (19.1319% fatality rate)

So if you're under 20, you have a 1 in 14,461 chance of dying if you test positive
If you are 20-39 you have a 1 in 8,039 chance of dying if you test positive
If you are 40-59 you have a 1 in 367 chance of dying if you test positive
If you are 60-79 you have a 1 in 22 chance of dying if you test positive
If you are 80+ you have a 1 in 5 chance of dying if you test positive

And that's BEFORE you even factor in the 93% of people who die who already have underlying health conditions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 05:03:43 PM
Good oul right-wing Gmac!
We should have been vaccinating people not locking them up.
Does he realise the Vaccinations only came on stream 9 or 10 months later.
But I suppose when you go full Yank rwnj you leave all your brains aside.
it's right wing to want to vaccinate people not lock them up ?
You may want to examine your ideology not me .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 05:03:43 PM
Good oul right-wing Gmac!
We should have been vaccinating people not locking them up.
Does he realise the Vaccinations only came on stream 9 or 10 months later.
But I suppose when you go full Yank rwnj you leave all your brains aside.
it's right wing to want to vaccinate people not lock them up ?
You may want to examine your ideology not me .
Who is "locked up" currently in Ireland other than prisoners?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:31:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 05:03:43 PM
Good oul right-wing Gmac!
We should have been vaccinating people not locking them up.
Does he realise the Vaccinations only came on stream 9 or 10 months later.
But I suppose when you go full Yank rwnj you leave all your brains aside.
it's right wing to want to vaccinate people not lock them up ?
You may want to examine your ideology not me .
Who is "locked up" currently in Ireland other than prisoners?
good they should be
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:32:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:31:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 05:03:43 PM
Good oul right-wing Gmac!
We should have been vaccinating people not locking them up.
Does he realise the Vaccinations only came on stream 9 or 10 months later.
But I suppose when you go full Yank rwnj you leave all your brains aside.
it's right wing to want to vaccinate people not lock them up ?
You may want to examine your ideology not me .
Who is "locked up" currently in Ireland other than prisoners?
good they should be
Answer the question please
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:34:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:32:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:31:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 05:03:43 PM
Good oul right-wing Gmac!
We should have been vaccinating people not locking them up.
Does he realise the Vaccinations only came on stream 9 or 10 months later.
But I suppose when you go full Yank rwnj you leave all your brains aside.
it's right wing to want to vaccinate people not lock them up ?
You may want to examine your ideology not me .
Who is "locked up" currently in Ireland other than prisoners?
good they should be
Answer the question please
locked down
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:35:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:34:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:32:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:31:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 05:03:43 PM
Good oul right-wing Gmac!
We should have been vaccinating people not locking them up.
Does he realise the Vaccinations only came on stream 9 or 10 months later.
But I suppose when you go full Yank rwnj you leave all your brains aside.
it's right wing to want to vaccinate people not lock them up ?
You may want to examine your ideology not me .
Who is "locked up" currently in Ireland other than prisoners?
good they should be
Answer the question please
locked down
So nobody apart from prisoners are "locked up"?

And your statement that people were locked up was just hysterical nonsense?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 19, 2021, 05:35:39 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 19, 2021, 05:10:32 PM
Good one Milly about the 9 friends
So original
Don't agree with Ross he try's to make you look small
Get the slippers on for the foreseeable Ross

You're either thick, blind or both . I work, front line even had my first jab! Unless I'm wearing slippers in work I don't have a clue to your slippers reference.

As for your other one on being original, you don't get that you're following on from Seaney changing my name?

The irony is lost on you but considering the crap you put on here in the random format you use, it's not surprising
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 19, 2021, 05:40:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 19, 2021, 05:17:43 PM
So the data up to today in the O6 states.

0-19 - 14,461 cases; 1 death (0.0069% fatality rate)
20-39 - 40,194 cases; 5 deaths (0.0124% fatality rate)
40-59 - 33,824 cases; 92 death (0.272% fatality rate)
60-79 - 15,190 cases; 684 deaths (4.503% fatality rate)
80+ - 6,497 cases; 1,243 deaths (19.1319% fatality rate)

So if you're under 20, you have a 1 in 14,461 chance of dying if you test positive
If you are 20-39 you have a 1 in 8,039 chance of dying if you test positive
If you are 40-59 you have a 1 in 367 chance of dying if you test positive
If you are 60-79 you have a 1 in 22 chance of dying if you test positive
If you are 80+ you have a 1 in 5 chance of dying if you test positive

And that's BEFORE you even factor in the 93% of people who die who already have underlying health conditions.

Let's just open up, i like the odds of 1-367
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:42:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:35:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:34:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:32:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:31:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 05:03:43 PM
Good oul right-wing Gmac!
We should have been vaccinating people not locking them up.
Does he realise the Vaccinations only came on stream 9 or 10 months later.
But I suppose when you go full Yank rwnj you leave all your brains aside.
it's right wing to want to vaccinate people not lock them up ?
You may want to examine your ideology not me .
Who is "locked up" currently in Ireland other than prisoners?
good they should be
Answer the question please
locked down
So nobody apart from prisoners are "locked up"?

And your statement that people were locked up was just hysterical nonsense?
if you can't get in your own car on your own and drive 5km from your house is that not hysterical none sense ? Hysterical none sense is now government policy all over the world.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:45:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:42:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:35:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:34:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:32:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:31:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 05:03:43 PM
Good oul right-wing Gmac!
We should have been vaccinating people not locking them up.
Does he realise the Vaccinations only came on stream 9 or 10 months later.
But I suppose when you go full Yank rwnj you leave all your brains aside.
it's right wing to want to vaccinate people not lock them up ?
You may want to examine your ideology not me .
Who is "locked up" currently in Ireland other than prisoners?
good they should be
Answer the question please
locked down
So nobody apart from prisoners are "locked up"?

And your statement that people were locked up was just hysterical nonsense?
if you can't get in your own car on your own and drive 5km from your house is that not hysterical none sense ? Hysterical none sense is now government policy all over the world.
But you claimed people were locked up

They aren't

What we have are some common sense public health restrictions and guidelines

The temporary abolition of which has already proven to be disastrous
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:53:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:45:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:42:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:35:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:34:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:32:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:31:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 19, 2021, 05:29:21 PM
Quote from: Gmac on February 19, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 05:03:43 PM
Good oul right-wing Gmac!
We should have been vaccinating people not locking them up.
Does he realise the Vaccinations only came on stream 9 or 10 months later.
But I suppose when you go full Yank rwnj you leave all your brains aside.
it's right wing to want to vaccinate people not lock them up ?
You may want to examine your ideology not me .
Who is "locked up" currently in Ireland other than prisoners?
good they should be
Answer the question please
locked down
So nobody apart from prisoners are "locked up"?

And your statement that people were locked up was just hysterical nonsense?
if you can't get in your own car on your own and drive 5km from your house is that not hysterical none sense ? Hysterical none sense is now government policy all over the world.
But you claimed people were locked up

They aren't

What we have are some common sense public health restrictions and guidelines

The temporary abolition of which has already proven to be disastrous
semantics , I agree some are needed and that some are common sense and some are none
sense , getting outside getting fresh air and sun and staying healthy, taking vitamins and supplements are common sense too but very little said about that .
Governments of all countries should be looking out for their citizens and doing whatever they can to purchase and vaccinate their people starting with over 60s , most resources should go to this IMO
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 06:13:28 PM
Governments are looking after their citizens. The mistake the Irish government made at Christmas was listening to the citizens/media and ignoring NPHET.

As things went so wrong in December the government will be following pretty much everything NPHET recommend to avoid something similar happening again. Meanwhile they are trying to vaccinate as many people as they can as quickly as they can. They don't want to have the country in lockdown any more than anybody else

People are criticising the government for being so far behind the UK in terms of vaccinations and they're right we are way behind, but it's not comparing like with like. EU bought the vaccinations to be shared pro rata around the European countries and all of Europe is way behind the UK. Ireland as a nation does not have the finances/negotiating power to go out on their own to buy enough of the vaccines so going through Europe was the only option.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on February 19, 2021, 06:33:33 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 06:13:28 PM
Governments are looking after their citizens. The mistake the Irish government made at Christmas was listening to the citizens/media and ignoring NPHET.

As things went so wrong in December the government will be following pretty much everything NPHET recommend to avoid something similar happening again. Meanwhile they are trying to vaccinate as many people as they can as quickly as they can. They don't want to have the country in lockdown any more than anybody else

People are criticising the government for being so far behind the UK in terms of vaccinations and they're right we are way behind, but it's not comparing like with like. EU bought the vaccinations to be shared pro rata around the European countries and all of Europe is way behind the UK. Ireland as a nation does not have the finances/negotiating power to go out on their own to buy enough of the vaccines so going through Europe was the only option.
NPHET was ok with easing restrictions in December, we were down to 250 cases per day and had a little over 200 in hospital. What they recommend was essential travel only at Christmas which wasn't heeded by the government.  Both underestimated the amount of mixing at Christmas and the New Year and people letting their guards down.

In other news RIP to Tony Holohans wife. She had terminal cancer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 19, 2021, 07:16:31 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 06:13:28 PM
Governments are looking after their citizens. The mistake the Irish government made at Christmas was listening to the citizens/media and ignoring NPHET.



People are criticising the government for being so far behind the UK in terms of vaccinations and they're right we are way behind, but it's not comparing like with like. EU bought the vaccinations to be shared pro rata around the European countries and all of Europe is way behind the UK. Ireland as a nation does not have the finances/negotiating power to go out on their own to buy enough of the vaccines so going through Europe was the only option.
I read somewhere that the EU were paying $18 a dose for Modern while the Brits were paying $40.
If we'd try to go it alone ut would probably have been $80!!
I would suspect similar pricing with Astra and Pfizer, which probably explains Astras shenanigans.

RIP  Mrs Holohan
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 19, 2021, 07:31:17 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 19, 2021, 06:33:33 PM
NPHET was ok with easing restrictions in December, we were down to 250 cases per day and had a little over 200 in hospital. What they recommend was essential travel only at Christmas which wasn't heeded by the government.  Both underestimated the amount of mixing at Christmas and the New Year and people letting their guards down.


NPHET said to make sure the people coming in isolate and they said that you could have hospitality open or you could allow people visit at Christmas, but not both.
The government ignored them on both of these points. The problem was that people were out in the pub with one crowd on the 19th of December and then meeting rake of family a week later when they were infectious.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 19, 2021, 09:12:17 PM
Rossfan will be raging as one of his beloved WHO has gone rogue on lockdowns.

"I've said this since the beginning, if you focus on cases, contacts and clusters, if you focus on restricting the movement of those who are sick or their contacts then you don't have to restrict the movement of all of society", Dr Mike Ryan, WHO Executive Director
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on February 19, 2021, 10:09:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 19, 2021, 09:12:17 PM
Rossfan will be raging as one of his beloved WHO has gone rogue on lockdowns.

"I've said this since the beginning, if you focus on cases, contacts and clusters, if you focus on restricting the movement of those who are sick or their contacts then you don't have to restrict the movement of all of society", Dr Mike Ryan, WHO Executive Director

While I don't think most would disagree, the problem is that a large number of people waiting for results or tested positive don't restrict their movements. I have first hand experience of 2 people, who were close contacts waiting for results turning up for a wake, despite clearly calling out the house was private to immediate family due to 2 members of having underlying conditions and  shielding. One of the people subsequently tested positive.

You can't legislate for morons.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 19, 2021, 11:01:09 PM
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00340-4
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 11:12:19 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 19, 2021, 10:09:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 19, 2021, 09:12:17 PM
Rossfan will be raging as one of his beloved WHO has gone rogue on lockdowns.

"I've said this since the beginning, if you focus on cases, contacts and clusters, if you focus on restricting the movement of those who are sick or their contacts then you don't have to restrict the movement of all of society", Dr Mike Ryan, WHO Executive Director

While I don't think most would disagree, the problem is that a large number of people waiting for results or tested positive don't restrict their movements. I have first hand experience of 2 people, who were close contacts waiting for results turning up for a wake, despite clearly calling out the house was private to immediate family due to 2 members of having underlying conditions and  shielding. One of the people subsequently tested positive.

You can't legislate for morons.

Maybe it's just me but having read the quotes of Dr Ryan above can someone point out were he criticizes lockdowns.

The link below contains the quotes were you know who claimed he is anti lockdown. In it he says he have to be careful when easing restrictions but doesn't say lockdowns are wrong and if the government isn't careful they could make things worse.

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1197553/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 20, 2021, 10:07:01 AM
OP waiting list in the south shows total nunber of patients waiting for a first appointment is 150000 which is 55000 46% increase since February 2020
Is he cure going to outlast the problem
Deaths in England have falling off a cliff
Vaccines are here and work yet we will be locked down for another 7 weeks at least
No plan to come out of it not 1
Conor Murphy said do not plan a single thing before Easter so why the f**k didn't they extend lockdown until April the 8th which is the Friday after Easter?
Are these politician clueless
Outdoor sports for all levels scientifically safe but Robbie Swan says that goes against the stay at home messages. He admitted it was safe. Why are takeaways open if that's the case? Are takeaways essential? The masks are starting to slip
Serious serious questions to be asked when all this finally ends
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 20, 2021, 10:18:03 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 20, 2021, 10:07:01 AM
OP waiting list in the south shows total nunber of patients waiting for a first appointment is 150000 which is 55000 46% increase since February 2020
Is he cure going to outlast the problem
Deaths in England have falling off a cliff
Vaccines are here and work yet we will be locked down for another 7 weeks at least
No plan to come out of it not 1
Conor Murphy said do not plan a single thing before Easter so why the f**k didn't they extend lockdown until April the 8th which is the Friday after Easter?
Are these politician clueless
Outdoor sports for all levels scientifically safe but Robbie Swan says that goes against the stay at home messages. He admitted it was safe. Why are takeaways open if that's the case? Are takeaways essential? The masks are starting to slip
Serious serious questions to be asked when all this finally ends

only going to adress the 1st part of the post. it is well known that OP and others are not getting the medical treatment they require. this is because of covid not because of lockdowns. 

i have seen an article today where vaccines are having a real impact with medical staff.... this is  a real positive. if staff can stay working instead of isolating due to having covid or being near contacts then capacity in hospitals increases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 20, 2021, 10:23:20 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 19, 2021, 11:12:19 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 19, 2021, 10:09:13 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 19, 2021, 09:12:17 PM
Rossfan will be raging as one of his beloved WHO has gone rogue on lockdowns.

"I've said this since the beginning, if you focus on cases, contacts and clusters, if you focus on restricting the movement of those who are sick or their contacts then you don't have to restrict the movement of all of society", Dr Mike Ryan, WHO Executive Director

While I don't think most would disagree, the problem is that a large number of people waiting for results or tested positive don't restrict their movements. I have first hand experience of 2 people, who were close contacts waiting for results turning up for a wake, despite clearly calling out the house was private to immediate family due to 2 members of having underlying conditions and  shielding. One of the people subsequently tested positive.

You can't legislate for morons.

Maybe it's just me but having read the quotes of Dr Ryan above can someone point out were he criticizes lockdowns.

The link below contains the quotes were you know who claimed he is anti lockdown. In it he says he have to be careful when easing restrictions but doesn't say lockdowns are wrong and if the government isn't careful they could make things worse.

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1197553/

Ask your teacher to explain it to you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 20, 2021, 11:40:28 AM
90% reduction on Covid infections among health staff since they got vaccinated.
Meanwhile some Ministers in the 26 talking of no relaxation of restrictions other than schools and construction till into May.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 20, 2021, 12:43:41 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/twelve-elderly-patients-who-died-after-vaccine-had-other-conditions-1.4488873?mode=amp

Someone dies after getting the vaccine - narrative is they had loads of underlying conditions.

Someone with underlying conditions dies with Covid - narrative is they died from Covid.

93% of people who have died from Covid have had underlying conditions.

The reporting of this is utterly, utterly disgraceful.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 20, 2021, 12:48:49 PM
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210107/Danish-study-suggests-local-lockdown-had-no-effect-on-SARS-CoV-2-infection-rate.aspx

Study from Denmark which states that lockdowns had no material impact on Covid transmission rates.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 20, 2021, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 20, 2021, 12:43:41 PM
The reporting of this is utterly, utterly disgraceful.

Not least by the likes of you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 20, 2021, 03:47:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 20, 2021, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 20, 2021, 12:43:41 PM
The reporting of this is utterly, utterly disgraceful.

Not least by the likes of you.

The kind of empty and baseless rhetoric you'd expect from a Stoop boot licker.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 20, 2021, 06:42:36 PM
3 cases of the Brazil variant identified in Ireland
#seniorhurling

"You always need a few tinkers" Syvlie Linnane
Tinkers would close the airports.


https://youtu.be/pFS4zYWxzNA
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 21, 2021, 12:22:13 PM
55k at a Cricket match in India today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 21, 2021, 03:28:16 PM
Botonic gardens bunged today..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 21, 2021, 03:29:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 20, 2021, 03:47:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 20, 2021, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 20, 2021, 12:43:41 PM
The reporting of this is utterly, utterly disgraceful.

Not least by the likes of you.

The kind of empty and baseless rhetoric you'd expect from a Stoop boot licker.

Does this mean that I lick the boots of Stoops?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on February 21, 2021, 04:31:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 21, 2021, 03:28:16 PM
Botonic gardens bunged today..

Was a great day to be outside. Probably best day of the year so far.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 21, 2021, 04:42:07 PM
Do you blame them Milly?
A great day for the park
Be all accounts most parks in the North are packed
That's what happens when you cage people up
This government need to come up with a plan and pretty quick
Nothing on everyone will go to parks even people who don't normally
Open things up slowly and it takes some of that away.
A plan needed. I think Robbie Swan and Celebrity McBride have had an abysmal few days
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 21, 2021, 04:44:31 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 21, 2021, 04:42:07 PM
Do you blame them Milly?
A great day for the park
Be all accounts most parks in the North are packed
That's what happens when you cage people up
This government need to come up with a plan and pretty quick
Nothing on everyone will go to parks even people who don't normally
Open things up slowly and it takes some of that away.
A plan needed. I think Robbie Swan and Celebrity McBride have had an abysmal few days

Absolutely nothing in my post would suggest that I'm blaming people. On the drink?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 21, 2021, 04:51:22 PM
I didn't say u did Milly
Yes haven a few beers
Problem?
What do you think regarding a plan?
Robbie and Celebrity McBride may come up with a plan
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 21, 2021, 05:00:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 21, 2021, 03:29:12 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 20, 2021, 03:47:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 20, 2021, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 20, 2021, 12:43:41 PM
The reporting of this is utterly, utterly disgraceful.

Not least by the likes of you.

The kind of empty and baseless rhetoric you'd expect from a Stoop boot licker.

Does this mean that I lick the boots of Stoops?

No I mean you act as an ashtray for unionism.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 21, 2021, 05:05:47 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 21, 2021, 04:51:22 PM
I didn't say u did Milly
Yes haven a few beers
Problem?
What do you think regarding a plan?
Robbie and Celebrity McBride may come up with a plan

You questioned me do I blame them?

I'll say this one more time, as you're hard on the uptake, I want us to open up tomorrow.

We are getting there, but are you looking a time or plan?

The plan will be open up and stay open, if you want to open up now and the numbers go up, what then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 21, 2021, 05:28:38 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 21, 2021, 04:42:07 PM
Do you blame them Milly?
A great day for the park
Be all accounts most parks in the North are packed
That's what happens when you cage people up
This government need to come up with a plan and pretty quick
Nothing on everyone will go to parks even people who don't normally
Open things up slowly and it takes some of that away.
A plan needed. I think Robbie Swan and Celebrity McBride have had an abysmal few days

Who has been caged up?

It's the first real spring day of 2021 so people took advantage of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 21, 2021, 05:43:30 PM
We have been caged up
My plan would make sense for a start
Nothing open until at least April 1st then Murphy says do not plan anything before Easter
Why not lockdown until April 8 then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 21, 2021, 05:52:02 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 21, 2021, 05:43:30 PM
We have been caged up
My plan would make sense for a start
Nothing open until at least April 1st then Murphy says do not plan anything before Easter
Why not lockdown until April 8 then?

So you are time based?

No one is locked up either, the exaggeration on this thread is unreal.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on February 21, 2021, 05:53:29 PM
Everywhere pretty packed today I'd say, I seen on Twitter they were asking people not to go to divis mountain because of the volume of traffic. It's fine for people to go walking, go to the parks etc but people can't partake in outdoor sport? Think this is what sticks in peoples throat the most especially going by Twitter
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 21, 2021, 06:01:27 PM
Outside sports should be opened up, it's the attendance and self regulation that needs sorting first.

The GAA had a system where people filled in Covid questionnaire before playing, it needs to be done properly by the players and management.

That's a reliance on honesty really. Having fans at games may happen like last time, up to 200 in the summer, in the north all adults will have had the vaccine, except Seaney and Angelo. That means I'm part the admissions to hospital will be close to zero.

After that hopefully we'll have proper attendances again. We just need to stop transmitting it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on February 21, 2021, 06:20:54 PM
Weekly update for the ROI.

Cases 5546 (498 fewer than last week)
Reported Deaths 192 (94 fewer than last week)

In hospital 744 (155 fewer than a week ago)
In ICU 148 (12 fewer than last week)



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on February 21, 2021, 06:28:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 21, 2021, 06:01:27 PM
Outside sports should be opened up, it's the attendance and self regulation that needs sorting first.

The GAA had a system where people filled in Covid questionnaire before playing, it needs to be done properly by the players and management.

That's a reliance on honesty really. Having fans at games may happen like last time, up to 200 in the summer, in the north all adults will have had the vaccine, except Seaney and Angelo. That means I'm part the admissions to hospital will be close to zero.

After that hopefully we'll have proper attendances again. We just need to stop transmitting it

That's it exactly, after st Patrick's weekend I can't see why sport can't open up again, even the same as last year group training and maybe non contact first few weeks (would be no real issue for adult teams as they be doin more fitness and runnin) with a view to games starting back after Easter. Agree with you that it'll come down to people being honest when declaring contacts etc. I don't think crowds should be a priority, getting young people and kids back at sport has to be the main aim.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on February 21, 2021, 07:57:15 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 21, 2021, 04:51:22 PM
I didn't say u did Milly
Yes haven a few beers
Problem?
What do you think regarding a plan?
Robbie and Celebrity McBride may come up with a plan

What kind Smurfy if you don't mind me asking?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 21, 2021, 08:02:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 21, 2021, 06:01:27 PM
Outside sports should be opened up, it's the attendance and self regulation that needs sorting first.

The GAA had a system where people filled in Covid questionnaire before playing, it needs to be done properly by the players and management.

That's a reliance on honesty really. Having fans at games may happen like last time, up to 200 in the summer, in the north all adults will have had the vaccine, except Seaney and Angelo. That means I'm part the admissions to hospital will be close to zero.

After that hopefully we'll have proper attendances again. We just need to stop transmitting it

Childrens sports with parents only allowed to attend IMO could and should be done. Go from there. Kids most important thing first then all being well economy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 21, 2021, 08:04:07 PM
Cans of Guinness
Not as good as the real deal but they will do
Watch our government piggy back off Boris announcement tomorrow
Just watch them follow him
They have more or less the whole way
Can't make decisions themselves
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 22, 2021, 01:11:30 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 21, 2021, 03:28:16 PM
Botonic gardens bunged today..
good stuff
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 22, 2021, 01:13:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 21, 2021, 05:52:02 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 21, 2021, 05:43:30 PM
We have been caged up
My plan would make sense for a start
Nothing open until at least April 1st then Murphy says do not plan anything before Easter
Why not lockdown until April 8 then?

So you are time based?

No one is locked up either, the exaggeration on this thread is unreal.
Cant get a haircut, can't go to the gym, can't get a pint, not meant to go visit anyone, no sport, no gyms- how much worse does it have to get before you'd call it locked up?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 22, 2021, 07:06:30 AM
Well said Armagh
Explain how we are not locked up
As Armagh can't do anything other than walk outside
We are caged up
Time some stuff was lifted
Agree these thing need to stay closed until May
Pubs
Restaurants
Work(can do from home)


But for the life of me why can't these return
Outside sports Golf
Gyms
Schools

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2021, 07:53:46 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 22, 2021, 07:06:30 AM
Well said Armagh
Explain how we are not locked up
As Armagh can't do anything other than walk outside
We are caged up
Time some stuff was lifted
Agree these thing need to stay closed until May
Pubs
Restaurants
Work(can do from home)


But for the life of me why can't these return
Outside sports Golf
Gyms
Schools

Gyms are a no for me at the minute, id be at the gym 6 days a week but the chances of catching stuff at the gym before Covid was extremely high. Classes like spin or Hiit, pump and so on in a room would be so easy for the likes of this virus to spread.

I'd feel safer in a pub than a gym if I'm being honest. I've repeatedly called for outdoor sports to be open, I don't see the issue providing everyone goes to it on their own.

I'm working in a safe environment and greeting people who are the most vulnerable so providing people use proper ppe and follow the correct procedures work should be safe.

As for being caged up, that's just bollox exaggeration shite. Go visit someone, stand outside and chat parks are open takeaways are open, plenty space to go for a run to keep fit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on February 22, 2021, 08:03:54 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2021, 07:53:46 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 22, 2021, 07:06:30 AM
Well said Armagh
Explain how we are not locked up
As Armagh can't do anything other than walk outside
We are caged up
Time some stuff was lifted
Agree these thing need to stay closed until May
Pubs
Restaurants
Work(can do from home)


But for the life of me why can't these return
Outside sports Golf
Gyms
Schools

Gyms are a no for me at the minute, id be at the gym 6 days a week but the chances of catching stuff at the gym before Covid was extremely high. Classes like spin or Hiit, pump and so on in a room would be so easy for the likes of this virus to spread.

I'd feel safer in a pub than a gym if I'm being honest. I've repeatedly called for outdoor sports to be open, I don't see the issue providing everyone goes to it on their own.

I'm working in a safe environment and greeting people who are the most vulnerable so providing people use proper ppe and follow the correct procedures work should be safe.

As for being caged up, that's just bollox exaggeration shite. Go visit someone, stand outside and chat parks are open takeaways are open, plenty space to go for a run to keep fit.

I've seen a good few people calling for gyms to open but they're missing the point about transmission. I've read a number of studies which show that transmission outdoors is very low and indoors is where the vast majority of transmission occurs. I'd say gyms are very dangerous to open and won't open for a good while yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on February 22, 2021, 08:15:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2021, 07:53:46 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 22, 2021, 07:06:30 AM
Well said Armagh
Explain how we are not locked up
As Armagh can't do anything other than walk outside
We are caged up
Time some stuff was lifted
Agree these thing need to stay closed until May
Pubs
Restaurants
Work(can do from home)


But for the life of me why can't these return
Outside sports Golf
Gyms
Schools

Gyms are a no for me at the minute, id be at the gym 6 days a week but the chances of catching stuff at the gym before Covid was extremely high. Classes like spin or Hiit, pump and so on in a room would be so easy for the likes of this virus to spread.

I'd feel safer in a pub than a gym if I'm being honest. I've repeatedly called for outdoor sports to be open, I don't see the issue providing everyone goes to it on their own.

I'm working in a safe environment and greeting people who are the most vulnerable so providing people use proper ppe and follow the correct procedures work should be safe.

As for being caged up, that's just bollox exaggeration shite. Go visit someone, stand outside and chat parks are open takeaways are open, plenty space to go for a run to keep fit.

actually agree on the gyms bit, Im the same would be in the gym every day if I could. My own gym was good and id feel safe in there as its pretty big, well spaced out with really good ventilation and they restricted the numbers but id say that was the exception rather than the rule so I wouldn't be opening them yet. But cant see why outdoor sports cant get going, even the likes of outdoor circuits etc now the weather is starting to change.

I read this morn that outdoor sports in England will be resuming next month for adult and children, id say that'll put pressure on NI government to do the same and Id say it will only be a week or 2 behind fingers crossed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 22, 2021, 08:38:36 AM
Have they not basically said that outdoor sports(kid wise anyway) would be ok but go against the stay at home message?

That would mean to me the messaging needs to change before anything happens. I worry about how far they've gone and how they can change that message.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on February 22, 2021, 10:06:46 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on February 22, 2021, 08:15:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2021, 07:53:46 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 22, 2021, 07:06:30 AM
Well said Armagh
Explain how we are not locked up
As Armagh can't do anything other than walk outside
We are caged up
Time some stuff was lifted
Agree these thing need to stay closed until May
Pubs
Restaurants
Work(can do from home)


But for the life of me why can't these return
Outside sports Golf
Gyms
Schools

Gyms are a no for me at the minute, id be at the gym 6 days a week but the chances of catching stuff at the gym before Covid was extremely high. Classes like spin or Hiit, pump and so on in a room would be so easy for the likes of this virus to spread.

I'd feel safer in a pub than a gym if I'm being honest. I've repeatedly called for outdoor sports to be open, I don't see the issue providing everyone goes to it on their own.

I'm working in a safe environment and greeting people who are the most vulnerable so providing people use proper ppe and follow the correct procedures work should be safe.

As for being caged up, that's just bollox exaggeration shite. Go visit someone, stand outside and chat parks are open takeaways are open, plenty space to go for a run to keep fit.

actually agree on the gyms bit, Im the same would be in the gym every day if I could. My own gym was good and id feel safe in there as its pretty big, well spaced out with really good ventilation and they restricted the numbers but id say that was the exception rather than the rule so I wouldn't be opening them yet. But cant see why outdoor sports cant get going, even the likes of outdoor circuits etc now the weather is starting to change.

I read this morn that outdoor sports in England will be resuming next month for adult and children, id say that'll put pressure on NI government to do the same and Id say it will only be a week or 2 behind fingers crossed.

Surely not lads, as my social media is covered in PTs telling me their gyms are 100% safe.  I'd have been a gym goer myself but haven't been in one since last Feb now. 

Itching to get back to some outdoor coaching with the Gaelic now that the weather has started to take a good turn.  Cant see it happening until at least the end of April.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 10:28:47 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 22, 2021, 07:06:30 AM
Well said Armagh
Explain how we are not locked up
As Armagh can't do anything other than walk outside
We are caged up
Hysterical nonsense like this does you no favours
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 22, 2021, 10:38:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 10:28:47 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 22, 2021, 07:06:30 AM
Well said Armagh
Explain how we are not locked up
As Armagh can't do anything other than walk outside
We are caged up
Hysterical nonsense like this does you no favours
You might be happy living in a fecking police state where you can barely walk up the road without getting questioned but I'm not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2021, 10:40:10 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2021, 10:38:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 10:28:47 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 22, 2021, 07:06:30 AM
Well said Armagh
Explain how we are not locked up
As Armagh can't do anything other than walk outside
We are caged up
Hysterical nonsense like this does you no favours
You might be happy living in a fecking police state where you can barely walk up the road without getting questioned but I'm not.

I haven't spoken to one person that's happy about lockdowns... Ive also not spoken to one person that has be getting questioned when you are walking up a road either
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 10:43:32 AM
The anti-lockdown extremists are totally nuts

They're living in a fantasy world of la la, made out of straw men

They talk like dystopian Enda McNultys, vacuous nonsense

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on February 22, 2021, 10:43:44 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2021, 10:38:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 10:28:47 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 22, 2021, 07:06:30 AM
Well said Armagh
Explain how we are not locked up
As Armagh can't do anything other than walk outside
We are caged up
Hysterical nonsense like this does you no favours
You might be happy living in a fecking police state where you can barely walk up the road without getting questioned but I'm not.

I've drove to work regularly and been out and about plenty since last March and haven't been stopped by or saw the police stopping once (while either walking or in the car).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on February 22, 2021, 10:48:06 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 22, 2021, 10:43:44 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2021, 10:38:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 10:28:47 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 22, 2021, 07:06:30 AM
Well said Armagh
Explain how we are not locked up
As Armagh can't do anything other than walk outside
We are caged up
Hysterical nonsense like this does you no favours
You might be happy living in a fecking police state where you can barely walk up the road without getting questioned but I'm not.

I've drove to work regularly and been out and about plenty since last March and haven't been stopped by or saw the police stopping once (while either walking or in the car).

I presume you're in the north? In the south, the Gardai are everywhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 10:50:02 AM
Quote from: five points on February 22, 2021, 10:48:06 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 22, 2021, 10:43:44 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2021, 10:38:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 10:28:47 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 22, 2021, 07:06:30 AM
Well said Armagh
Explain how we are not locked up
As Armagh can't do anything other than walk outside
We are caged up
Hysterical nonsense like this does you no favours
You might be happy living in a fecking police state where you can barely walk up the road without getting questioned but I'm not.

I've drove to work regularly and been out and about plenty since last March and haven't been stopped by or saw the police stopping once (while either walking or in the car).

I presume you're in the north? In the south, the Gardai are everywhere.
I ain't seen them

But it's good to know they're out there

As they should be
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on February 22, 2021, 10:54:36 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 10:50:02 AM
Quote from: five points on February 22, 2021, 10:48:06 AM
I presume you're in the north? In the south, the Gardai are everywhere.
I ain't seen them

But it's good to know they're out there

As they should be

You mustn't be getting out much.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 11:03:39 AM
Quote from: five points on February 22, 2021, 10:54:36 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 10:50:02 AM
Quote from: five points on February 22, 2021, 10:48:06 AM
I presume you're in the north? In the south, the Gardai are everywhere.
I ain't seen them

But it's good to know they're out there

As they should be

You mustn't be getting out much.
Not that much - as a socially conscious individual, I adhere to restrictions
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: five points on February 22, 2021, 11:17:08 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 11:03:39 AM
Quote from: five points on February 22, 2021, 10:54:36 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 10:50:02 AM
Quote from: five points on February 22, 2021, 10:48:06 AM
I presume you're in the north? In the south, the Gardai are everywhere.
I ain't seen them

But it's good to know they're out there

As they should be

You mustn't be getting out much.
Not that much - as a socially conscious individual, I adhere to restrictions

Same here. Work, a few shops and that's it for me. And still the Gardai are everywhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 11:32:06 AM
I wonder how much overlap there is between people who are currently hysterically going on about a so called "police state" and people who in normal times are demanding more police on the streets and to flog criminals - the "tough on crime, hang em' high" , pro-death penalty brigade

A big overlap, I would guess

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 22, 2021, 11:40:11 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 10:50:02 AM
Quote from: five points on February 22, 2021, 10:48:06 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 22, 2021, 10:43:44 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 22, 2021, 10:38:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 10:28:47 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 22, 2021, 07:06:30 AM
Well said Armagh
Explain how we are not locked up
As Armagh can't do anything other than walk outside
We are caged up
Hysterical nonsense like this does you no favours
You might be happy living in a fecking police state where you can barely walk up the road without getting questioned but I'm not.

I've drove to work regularly and been out and about plenty since last March and haven't been stopped by or saw the police stopping once (while either walking or in the car).

I presume you're in the north? In the south, the Gardai are everywhere.
I ain't seen them

But it's good to know they're out there

As they should be
Why on earth would you want those rats out and about? Same c***ts who can post videos of dancing at the beach but fine people for going for a swim?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 22, 2021, 11:40:57 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 22, 2021, 11:32:06 AM
I wonder how much overlap there is between people who are currently hysterically going on about a so called "police state" and people who in normal times are demanding more police on the streets and to flog criminals - the "tough on crime, hang em' high" , pro-death penalty brigade

A big overlap, I would guess
If I never saw another cop on the street it'd be too soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on February 22, 2021, 11:55:53 AM
Didn't think this thread could get any crazier   :D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 22, 2021, 12:07:03 PM
Indeed. A couple of the loonier elements let loose this morning.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 22, 2021, 12:15:31 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on February 22, 2021, 11:55:53 AM
Didn't think this thread could get any crazier   :D

I think we'll see a new wave, so to speak.....when restrictions start loosening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on February 22, 2021, 12:17:19 PM
Its bonkers.

And not only this thread - its most of them now.

Perhaps this lockdown has had a serious impact on some posters.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 22, 2021, 12:33:55 PM
I would definitely say it has.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 22, 2021, 12:39:34 PM
;););)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 22, 2021, 12:43:33 PM
From my reading on here, the posters who think they haven't been impacted by these lockdowns are probably the ones who have gone the most crazy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 22, 2021, 12:48:15 PM
The Covid backtracks

The virus is not airborne to The virus is airborne
Masks don't work to Masks do work
Children are superspreaders to Children are low risk spreaders


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 22, 2021, 01:50:59 PM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-linked-to-85-and-94-drop-in-coronavirus-hospital-admissions-in-scotland-study-shows-12225532

Exceptional News.

Hopefully....just a little longer to go now.

On another note, is anyone really annoyed by the leaks and dirty deals between the Govt and Media?

How does the UK know exactly what Boris is going to say tonight, 24 hours before he actually says it....it looks like it's you scratch my back....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on February 22, 2021, 03:13:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 22, 2021, 01:50:59 PM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-linked-to-85-and-94-drop-in-coronavirus-hospital-admissions-in-scotland-study-shows-12225532

Exceptional News.

Hopefully....just a little longer to go now.

On another note, is anyone really annoyed by the leaks and dirty deals between the Govt and Media?

How does the UK know exactly what Boris is going to say tonight, 24 hours before he actually says it....it looks like it's you scratch my back....

The cynic would say it is being leaked to get the general feeling of the public and see what sort (if any) uproar there is.

Where there is no massive uproar they go with that - if there is an uproar they will try to make changes.

Stinks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on February 22, 2021, 03:23:25 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 22, 2021, 01:50:59 PM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-linked-to-85-and-94-drop-in-coronavirus-hospital-admissions-in-scotland-study-shows-12225532

Exceptional News.

Hopefully....just a little longer to go now.

On another note, is anyone really annoyed by the leaks and dirty deals between the Govt and Media?

How does the UK know exactly what Boris is going to say tonight, 24 hours before he actually says it....it looks like it's you scratch my back....
That's great news.  The EU will be left with egg on their face after their decision not to give the Oxford jab to the over 65's with Macron saying it was "quasi-ineffective" for that age group.  Think there was a big anti-Brit sentiment with that statement. Time to rectify the error and get it into more people's arms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 22, 2021, 03:41:24 PM
Quote from: mackers on February 22, 2021, 03:23:25 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 22, 2021, 01:50:59 PM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-linked-to-85-and-94-drop-in-coronavirus-hospital-admissions-in-scotland-study-shows-12225532

Exceptional News.

Hopefully....just a little longer to go now.

On another note, is anyone really annoyed by the leaks and dirty deals between the Govt and Media?

How does the UK know exactly what Boris is going to say tonight, 24 hours before he actually says it....it looks like it's you scratch my back....
That's great news.  The EU will be left with egg on their face after their decision not to give the Oxford jab to the over 65's with Macron saying it was "quasi-ineffective" for that age group.  Think there was a big anti-Brit sentiment with that statement. Time to rectify the error and get it into more people's arms.

I don't see why anyone should have egg on their face for waiting for actual proper research when dealing with vulnerable people.
When there is authoritative research they'll change their recommendation, as John Maynard Keynes said "when I receive new data I change my opinion, what should I do?".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 22, 2021, 04:03:43 PM
Brits 1 Eu 0
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on February 22, 2021, 04:08:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 22, 2021, 03:41:24 PM
Quote from: mackers on February 22, 2021, 03:23:25 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 22, 2021, 01:50:59 PM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-linked-to-85-and-94-drop-in-coronavirus-hospital-admissions-in-scotland-study-shows-12225532

Exceptional News.

Hopefully....just a little longer to go now.

On another note, is anyone really annoyed by the leaks and dirty deals between the Govt and Media?

How does the UK know exactly what Boris is going to say tonight, 24 hours before he actually says it....it looks like it's you scratch my back....
That's great news.  The EU will be left with egg on their face after their decision not to give the Oxford jab to the over 65's with Macron saying it was "quasi-ineffective" for that age group.  Think there was a big anti-Brit sentiment with that statement. Time to rectify the error and get it into more people's arms.

I don't see why anyone should have egg on their face for waiting for actual proper research when dealing with vulnerable people.
When there is authoritative research they'll change their recommendation, as John Maynard Keynes said "when I receive new data I change my opinion, what should I do?".
Do you think the "quasi-ineffective" statement was correct when he didn't have the data to back up the statement?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 22, 2021, 04:18:15 PM
Might move to England for a few months  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on February 22, 2021, 04:30:04 PM
It's not the end but it feels like the beginning of the end. Hopefully infection rates and vaccine numbers continue to go in the right direction.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on February 22, 2021, 05:22:07 PM
The French have been vociferous in their criticism of the Oxford jab, the Germans, in the middle of this roll out, have huge supplies of the Oxford Vaccine in storage as they've briefed against it so much large swathes of the German public refuse to accept the Oxford jab, Belgian Nurses have threatened to go on strike if they are given the Oxford vaccine.  The EU's politcal briefings against it will come back to haunt them, they've undermined it from the get go - another casualty of Brexit unfortunately.

Nobody likes the Tans - that's at the root of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on February 22, 2021, 06:02:33 PM
Brits in!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 22, 2021, 06:18:59 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 22, 2021, 05:22:07 PM
The French have been vociferous in their criticism of the Oxford jab, the Germans, in the middle of this roll out, have huge supplies of the Oxford Vaccine in storage as they've briefed against it so much large swathes of the German public refuse to accept the Oxford jab, Belgian Nurses have threatened to go on strike if they are given the Oxford vaccine.  The EU's politcal briefings against it will come back to haunt them, they've undermined it from the get go - another casualty of Brexit unfortunately.

Nobody likes the Tans - that's at the root of it.

the Germans giving people the choice of vaccine was unwise in the face of a pandemic.

As for not like the tans, there is some truth in this, but the main reason is AstraZeneca's conduct in doing a deal for vaccines and then suddenly announcing with a week to go that they would only supply one third of the amount, while supplying the UK all along.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 22, 2021, 06:22:06 PM
Quote from: mackers on February 22, 2021, 03:23:25 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 22, 2021, 01:50:59 PM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-linked-to-85-and-94-drop-in-coronavirus-hospital-admissions-in-scotland-study-shows-12225532

Exceptional News.

Hopefully....just a little longer to go now.

On another note, is anyone really annoyed by the leaks and dirty deals between the Govt and Media?

How does the UK know exactly what Boris is going to say tonight, 24 hours before he actually says it....it looks like it's you scratch my back....
That's great news.  The EU will be left with egg on their face after their decision not to give the Oxford jab to the over 65's with Macron saying it was "quasi-ineffective" for that age group.  Think there was a big anti-Brit sentiment with that statement. Time to rectify the error and get it into more people's arms.
The EU is about 5 weeks behind at this stage
But that may not be a disadvantage. It depends on how Covid develops
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on February 22, 2021, 06:30:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 22, 2021, 06:22:06 PM
Quote from: mackers on February 22, 2021, 03:23:25 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 22, 2021, 01:50:59 PM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-linked-to-85-and-94-drop-in-coronavirus-hospital-admissions-in-scotland-study-shows-12225532

Exceptional News.

Hopefully....just a little longer to go now.

On another note, is anyone really annoyed by the leaks and dirty deals between the Govt and Media?

How does the UK know exactly what Boris is going to say tonight, 24 hours before he actually says it....it looks like it's you scratch my back....
That's great news.  The EU will be left with egg on their face after their decision not to give the Oxford jab to the over 65's with Macron saying it was "quasi-ineffective" for that age group.  Think there was a big anti-Brit sentiment with that statement. Time to rectify the error and get it into more people's arms.
The EU is about 5 weeks behind at this stage
But that may not be a disadvantage. It depends on how Covid develops
Sort of true, the UK thinks it's on the final lap waving to the crowd as they the approach the chequered flag - but Covid is still in charge, it could go pear shaped for everybody pretty quickly. Hopefully not though - even if the price of that is seeing Bojo & the UK lording it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 22, 2021, 06:37:02 PM
The uk, well England, do seem to be going from 0 to 100 with restrictions in April.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on February 22, 2021, 06:41:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 22, 2021, 06:37:02 PM
The uk, well England, do seem to be going from 0 to 100 with restrictions in April.

They must be doing something right of their most vocal critic Piers Morgan agrees with the roadmap
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 22, 2021, 08:36:18 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on February 22, 2021, 06:41:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 22, 2021, 06:37:02 PM
The uk, well England, do seem to be going from 0 to 100 with restrictions in April.

They must be doing something right of their most vocal critic Piers Morgan agrees with the roadmap

I think people generally were happy enough with it. It's realistic considering their position.

The uncertainty is what annoys people the most I think. Plus, Boris needed a victory somewhere. If he pulls this off, I think.....he might just get away with the initial disaster of the handling
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on February 22, 2021, 08:41:50 PM
Saw earlier that there is something like 30% refuseniks who will not take a vaccine, that's a lot of the population
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2021, 08:49:15 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on February 22, 2021, 08:41:50 PM
Saw earlier that there is something like 30% refuseniks who will not take a vaccine, that's a lot of the population

Sure we know that, Angelo isn't taking it, but it's ok , if 70% take it that should give everyone cover
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 22, 2021, 09:33:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2021, 08:49:15 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on February 22, 2021, 08:41:50 PM
Saw earlier that there is something like 30% refuseniks who will not take a vaccine, that's a lot of the population

Sure we know that, Angelo isn't taking it, but it's ok , if 70% take it that should give everyone cover
Didn't think it would be as high as 30% tbh.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 22, 2021, 10:01:01 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on February 22, 2021, 08:41:50 PM
Saw earlier that there is something like 30% refuseniks who will not take a vaccine, that's a lot of the population

Each to their own. I'm undecided to be honest. Swaying more to not getting it atm
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on February 22, 2021, 10:08:05 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 22, 2021, 10:01:01 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on February 22, 2021, 08:41:50 PM
Saw earlier that there is something like 30% refuseniks who will not take a vaccine, that's a lot of the population

Each to their own. I'm undecided to be honest. Swaying more to not getting it atm

Don't be letting Anne melt your brain Fear!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2021, 10:14:52 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 22, 2021, 10:01:01 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on February 22, 2021, 08:41:50 PM
Saw earlier that there is something like 30% refuseniks who will not take a vaccine, that's a lot of the population

Each to their own. I'm undecided to be honest. Swaying more to not getting it atm

The 8th of December was the first day of vaccine roll out, there seems to be a positive response from those who have taken it,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 22, 2021, 10:24:42 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on February 22, 2021, 10:08:05 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 22, 2021, 10:01:01 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on February 22, 2021, 08:41:50 PM
Saw earlier that there is something like 30% refuseniks who will not take a vaccine, that's a lot of the population

Each to their own. I'm undecided to be honest. Swaying more to not getting it atm

Don't be letting Anne melt your brain Fear!

Lol. Naw we got rid of her. I'm just thinking I've had COVID,im not in risk group, I sort of like thought of my own immune system doing the work and I do admit also to having some niggling doubts about vacinne itself. As I said undecided
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 22, 2021, 10:26:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2021, 10:14:52 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 22, 2021, 10:01:01 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on February 22, 2021, 08:41:50 PM
Saw earlier that there is something like 30% refuseniks who will not take a vaccine, that's a lot of the population

Each to their own. I'm undecided to be honest. Swaying more to not getting it atm

The 8th of December was the first day of vaccine roll out, there seems to be a positive response from those who have taken it,

Yeah I know, both parents and Mrs parents had it. So far so good. I'd say 30 percent might be accurate gauge of doubters

https://twitter.com/DerryNow/status/1363924401519947776?s=19
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2021, 10:26:45 PM
America has lost more to Covid than WW2, Korean War and the Vietnam war!


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 08:17:02 AM
I wonder will we all be pushing for an "All-island" approach now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on February 23, 2021, 08:42:02 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 08:17:02 AM
I wonder will we all be pushing for an "All-island" approach now

I think the vaccine has put to bed the notion of an all Island approach, when there was no vaccine it could be considered a viable option but when the north is around 33% of the adult population at least with one dose and the south is still in single figures it wouldn't make any sense to take an all island approach
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 08:51:37 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on February 23, 2021, 08:42:02 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 08:17:02 AM
I wonder will we all be pushing for an "All-island" approach now

I think the vaccine has put to bed the notion of an all Island approach, when there was no vaccine it could be considered a viable option but when the north is around 33% of the adult population at least with one dose and the south is still in single figures it wouldn't make any sense to take an all island approach

the political spin from SF will be great to watch.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 23, 2021, 09:20:52 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 08:51:37 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on February 23, 2021, 08:42:02 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 08:17:02 AM
I wonder will we all be pushing for an "All-island" approach now

I think the vaccine has put to bed the notion of an all Island approach, when there was no vaccine it could be considered a viable option but when the north is around 33% of the adult population at least with one dose and the south is still in single figures it wouldn't make any sense to take an all island approach

the political spin from SF will be great to watch.
I've voted SF all my life but if they try to keep us locked up in the summer they'll never ever get another vote from me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 09:32:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 22, 2021, 08:49:15 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on February 22, 2021, 08:41:50 PM
Saw earlier that there is something like 30% refuseniks who will not take a vaccine, that's a lot of the population

Sure we know that, Angelo isn't taking it, but it's ok , if 70% take it that should give everyone cover

I think we'll see from 50 and under the numbers taking maybe sway off a bit for various reasons.

Without wanting to start a war on here, I can kind of see their point - it's hugely unlikely to cause any issues for them really but I worry about the knock on effect that will have on getting the show back on the road.

I'm in my late 20s, I'll take the vaccine if it gets life back to what it was pre pandemic (yes...i know it won't ever be the same....but you get my point). But I know many people my age who will not go near it. I hope as MTR says, 70% is enough.

It's always been about protecting the vulnerable though, hasn't it?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 23, 2021, 09:38:16 AM
There are more than you might think at younger ages with problems from this though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 23, 2021, 09:39:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 08:51:37 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on February 23, 2021, 08:42:02 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 08:17:02 AM
I wonder will we all be pushing for an "All-island" approach now

I think the vaccine has put to bed the notion of an all Island approach, when there was no vaccine it could be considered a viable option but when the north is around 33% of the adult population at least with one dose and the south is still in single figures it wouldn't make any sense to take an all island approach

the political spin from SF will be great to watch.

Down south it's that time where SF go notoriously quiet when there is talk of roadmaps, lockdown decisions, lifting or not lifting of restrictions etc. They'll take their position on top of the fence and wait until plans have been laid out, see what way the popular opinion is going and side with that. They'll also focus in on the small detail, looking for a hole and bring every argument back to that.

Heard Pearse Doherty, by far their best politician, on radio last week speaking about Ulster Bank situation. At end he was asked about Covid restrictions and his thoughts on roadmap - like reading from a script it was - we don't have all the data, follow public health guidance but we need an all Ireland approach which he talked about for a full minute.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 09:58:00 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 23, 2021, 09:39:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 08:51:37 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on February 23, 2021, 08:42:02 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 08:17:02 AM
I wonder will we all be pushing for an "All-island" approach now

I think the vaccine has put to bed the notion of an all Island approach, when there was no vaccine it could be considered a viable option but when the north is around 33% of the adult population at least with one dose and the south is still in single figures it wouldn't make any sense to take an all island approach

the political spin from SF will be great to watch.

Down south it's that time where SF go notoriously quiet when there is talk of roadmaps, lockdown decisions, lifting or not lifting of restrictions etc. They'll take their position on top of the fence and wait until plans have been laid out, see what way the popular opinion is going and side with that. They'll also focus in on the small detail, looking for a hole and bring every argument back to that.

Heard Pearse Doherty, by far their best politician, on radio last week speaking about Ulster Bank situation. At end he was asked about Covid restrictions and his thoughts on roadmap - like reading from a script it was - we don't have all the data, follow public health guidance but we need an all Ireland approach which he talked about for a full minute.

Bluffers on the ditch
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on February 23, 2021, 10:14:11 AM
I'd imagine this vaccine will be a yearly thing. And if young people don't get it things like the night time economy will be closed again. The vaccine is the solution. We all need to get it and we need to hope it works effectively but we'll be dealing with Covid and different variants for a long time I'd imagine.

There's a whole discussion around vaccines but to hear some young people say they won't take it when they'd buy something dubious from a lad on street corner or even a pile of drink at the weekends is just stupid. Young people don't understand the lives that have been saved by vaccines. The older population can remember terrible diseases that are all but eradicated now. I would hope as the population is vaccinated they'll understand that there are few risks and that getting vaccinated is a right thing to do for society as a whole.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 10:20:48 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 23, 2021, 10:14:11 AM
I'd imagine this vaccine will be a yearly thing. And if young people don't get it things like the night time economy will be closed again. The vaccine is the solution. We all need to get it and we need to hope it works effectively but we'll be dealing with Covid and different variants for a long time I'd imagine.

There's a whole discussion around vaccines but to hear some young people say they won't take it when they'd buy something dubious from a lad on street corner or even a pile of drink at the weekends is just stupid. Young people don't understand the lives that have been saved by vaccines. The older population can remember terrible diseases that are all but eradicated now. I would hope as the population is vaccinated they'll understand that there are few risks and that getting vaccinated is a right thing to do for society as a whole.
This is the result of many years of right-wing (and to a much lesser extent dirtbag left) demagoguery in politics and media - a bizarre culture of total cynicism yet total gullibility

Who needs experts when you have some guy on YouTube

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on February 23, 2021, 10:24:08 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 23, 2021, 10:14:11 AM
I'd imagine this vaccine will be a yearly thing. And if young people don't get it things like the night time economy will be closed again. The vaccine is the solution. We all need to get it and we need to hope it works effectively but we'll be dealing with Covid and different variants for a long time I'd imagine.

There's a whole discussion around vaccines but to hear some young people say they won't take it when they'd buy something dubious from a lad on street corner or even a pile of drink at the weekends is just stupid. Young people don't understand the lives that have been saved by vaccines. The older population can remember terrible diseases that are all but eradicated now. I would hope as the population is vaccinated they'll understand that there are few risks and that getting vaccinated is a right thing to do for society as a whole.
Thats it, boys in work here dubious about the vaccine while scuffing down a rustler burger ffs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 10:29:41 AM
Its here to stay and just another thing that has come into ours lives, we'll move on and and something else may impact our lives or kids lives in 40/50 years.

If someone doesn't take the vaccine, I'm not worried, its their choice, whether that's informed or through their own experience it really doesn't matter.

I'm tired of hearing all the crap on tv and radio, we can be cautious but positive and at the minute selling negative is a better sale.

The flu rate has dropped off and going forward every year would people change their mindset to keep that rate as it is, or just be happy enough to have those high rates and not sanitize?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on February 23, 2021, 10:35:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 10:29:41 AM
Its here to stay and just another thing that has come into ours lives, we'll move on and and something else may impact our lives or kids lives in 40/50 years.

If someone doesn't take the vaccine, I'm not worried, its their choice, whether that's informed or through their own experience it really doesn't matter.

I'm tired of hearing all the crap on tv and radio, we can be cautious but positive and at the minute selling negative is a better sale.

The flu rate has dropped off and going forward every year would people change their mindset to keep that rate as it is, or just be happy enough to have those high rates and not sanitize?

There is a section of the community who cannot be vaccinated. So to protect them we all need to get vaccinated. The more healthy people who get vaccinated the better chance we have of beating it. If people think well I've already had Covid or I am not at risk then Covid will continue to circulate and we'll be back in and out of lockdowns. The virus will have a greater chance of mutating and you could be in a really tricky place. I keep reiterating the vaccine is about you per se it's about everyone and society as a whole. If you want some sort of chance at normal then everyone who can, should get vaccinated.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 10:39:22 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 23, 2021, 10:24:08 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 23, 2021, 10:14:11 AM
I'd imagine this vaccine will be a yearly thing. And if young people don't get it things like the night time economy will be closed again. The vaccine is the solution. We all need to get it and we need to hope it works effectively but we'll be dealing with Covid and different variants for a long time I'd imagine.

There's a whole discussion around vaccines but to hear some young people say they won't take it when they'd buy something dubious from a lad on street corner or even a pile of drink at the weekends is just stupid. Young people don't understand the lives that have been saved by vaccines. The older population can remember terrible diseases that are all but eradicated now. I would hope as the population is vaccinated they'll understand that there are few risks and that getting vaccinated is a right thing to do for society as a whole.
Thats it, boys in work here dubious about the vaccine while scuffing down a rustler burger ffs

I didn't like the tone today on Radio Foyle by the interviewer whilst touching on those who don't want the vaccine, it was a sniggering/belittling type attitude, I don't think you are saying that but people's position are varied on why they wont take it and in many cases their logic make perfect sense. I wouldn't want to lump everyone into the same group, again I don't think you or others are saying that either

I for one will not be taking any instruction from a lad on the street corner-I'm more confident in my judgement and intelligence than that, i'm 60/40 not for taking it atm.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 10:41:04 AM
Idiotic opinions deserve to be belittled

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 23, 2021, 10:46:13 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 10:39:22 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 23, 2021, 10:24:08 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 23, 2021, 10:14:11 AM
I'd imagine this vaccine will be a yearly thing. And if young people don't get it things like the night time economy will be closed again. The vaccine is the solution. We all need to get it and we need to hope it works effectively but we'll be dealing with Covid and different variants for a long time I'd imagine.

There's a whole discussion around vaccines but to hear some young people say they won't take it when they'd buy something dubious from a lad on street corner or even a pile of drink at the weekends is just stupid. Young people don't understand the lives that have been saved by vaccines. The older population can remember terrible diseases that are all but eradicated now. I would hope as the population is vaccinated they'll understand that there are few risks and that getting vaccinated is a right thing to do for society as a whole.
Thats it, boys in work here dubious about the vaccine while scuffing down a rustler burger ffs

I didn't like the tone today on Radio Foyle by the interviewer whilst touching on those who don't want the vaccine, it was a sniggering/belittling type attitude, I don't think you are saying that but people's position are varied on why they wont take it and in many cases their logic make perfect sense. I wouldn't want to lump everyone into the same group, again I don't think you or others are saying that either

I for one will not be taking any instruction from a lad on the street corner-I'm more confident in my judgement and intelligence than that, i'm 60/40 not for taking it atm.

Out of interest - why so?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 10:59:11 AM
In the same way that we have trainspotters, planespotters and UFO spotters, we will surely soon have Moderna vaccine spotters

A lad I know swears he spotted one in Limerick last week, but I don't believe him



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 23, 2021, 10:59:50 AM
I'll have no issue taking it. I've a sister who said she isn't taking it and only reason she can offer is that it's too new and not tested enough. She in late 40s.

My fear would be that not enough take it and it mutates further and becomes more harmful in particular to children who seem relatively unharmed to date from the virus. If a variant becomes apparent that harms them before the vaccine is tested and applied to this age, then it wouldn't be worth trying to contemplate. I know it might be reaching but if someone explained the next 12 months to me this time last year, they'd have been laughed at.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 11:03:21 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 23, 2021, 10:59:50 AM
I'll have no issue taking it. I've a sister who said she isn't taking it and only reason she can offer is that it's too new and not tested enough. She in late 40s.

My fear would be that not enough take it and it mutates further and becomes more harmful in particular to children who seem relatively unharmed to date from the virus. If a variant becomes apparent that harms them before the vaccine is tested and applied to this age, then it wouldn't be worth trying to contemplate. I know it might be reaching but if someone explained the next 12 months to me this time last year, they'd have been laughed at.

So what timeline is acceptable? 5 years 10 years? Is it studies and results from research that will 'inform' people of its possible benefits/negatives?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 23, 2021, 11:05:33 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 23, 2021, 10:35:55 AM
There is a section of the community who cannot be vaccinated. So to protect them we all need to get vaccinated. The more healthy people who get vaccinated the better chance we have of beating it. If people think well I've already had Covid or I am not at risk then Covid will continue to circulate and we'll be back in and out of lockdowns. The virus will have a greater chance of mutating and you could be in a really tricky place. I keep reiterating the vaccine is about you per se it's about everyone and society as a whole. If you want some sort of chance at normal then everyone who can, should get vaccinated.

The problem is that there is a freeloading problem. Provided that everyone else behaves responsibly then someone can have the benefit of the vaccine in terms of no need for restrictions etc without they themselves making any contribution to the effort. Public health arises from the actions of everyone and we need every to do their bit, but people see the opportunity to freeload on the efforts of others.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 11:05:51 AM
The vaccine discussion tends to end up with pro-vaccine zealots smirking and nodding heads at each other after posting something along the lines of "same lad won't take the vaccine just ordered a mystery meat burger / line of coke / something heavily processed".

Would you wise to f**k up folks. Here's the basics: when you buy anything local or buy anything often, it's traceable. Not what's in it, so much as if there's any side effects. And if there's no known side effects, then what does it matter what's in it?

Stop acting like you're smarter and more considered about risk than anyone else. We are humans. We are all born with eyes, ears and noses, that allow us to risk detect what we digest.

——

I'll take the vaccination by the way. But why we would force/expect healthy people in their teens and twenties to take a vaccine for a virus that is basically a non threat to them, well that's just f**king wrong on every level.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 23, 2021, 11:08:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 11:03:21 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 23, 2021, 10:59:50 AM
I'll have no issue taking it. I've a sister who said she isn't taking it and only reason she can offer is that it's too new and not tested enough. She in late 40s.

My fear would be that not enough take it and it mutates further and becomes more harmful in particular to children who seem relatively unharmed to date from the virus. If a variant becomes apparent that harms them before the vaccine is tested and applied to this age, then it wouldn't be worth trying to contemplate. I know it might be reaching but if someone explained the next 12 months to me this time last year, they'd have been laughed at.

So what timeline is acceptable? 5 years 10 years? Is it studies and results from research that will 'inform' people of its possible benefits/negatives?

I've no idea what would keep her or that way of thinking happy. The same one would have taken some "rubbish" over the years without a care in the world.

I think when it comes to it she could change her mind and stop reading 2 line medical opinions on Facebook  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 11:08:22 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 23, 2021, 10:46:13 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 10:39:22 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 23, 2021, 10:24:08 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 23, 2021, 10:14:11 AM
I'd imagine this vaccine will be a yearly thing. And if young people don't get it things like the night time economy will be closed again. The vaccine is the solution. We all need to get it and we need to hope it works effectively but we'll be dealing with Covid and different variants for a long time I'd imagine.

There's a whole discussion around vaccines but to hear some young people say they won't take it when they'd buy something dubious from a lad on street corner or even a pile of drink at the weekends is just stupid. Young people don't understand the lives that have been saved by vaccines. The older population can remember terrible diseases that are all but eradicated now. I would hope as the population is vaccinated they'll understand that there are few risks and that getting vaccinated is a right thing to do for society as a whole.
Thats it, boys in work here dubious about the vaccine while scuffing down a rustler burger ffs

I didn't like the tone today on Radio Foyle by the interviewer whilst touching on those who don't want the vaccine, it was a sniggering/belittling type attitude, I don't think you are saying that but people's position are varied on why they wont take it and in many cases their logic make perfect sense. I wouldn't want to lump everyone into the same group, again I don't think you or others are saying that either

I for one will not be taking any instruction from a lad on the street corner-I'm more confident in my judgement and intelligence than that, i'm 60/40 not for taking it atm.

Out of interest - why so?

Posted this earlier

I'm just thinking I've had COVID,im not in risk group, I sort of like thought of my own immune system doing the work and I do admit also to having some niggling doubts about vaccine itself. As I said undecided
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 11:08:26 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 23, 2021, 10:59:50 AM
I'll have no issue taking it. I've a sister who said she isn't taking it and only reason she can offer is that it's too new and not tested enough. She in late 40s.

My fear would be that not enough take it and it mutates further and becomes more harmful in particular to children who seem relatively unharmed to date from the virus. If a variant becomes apparent that harms them before the vaccine is tested and applied to this age, then it wouldn't be worth trying to contemplate. I know it might be reaching but if someone explained the next 12 months to me this time last year, they'd have been laughed at.
1 in 7 students of secondary school age who get Covid develop symptoms consistent with long Covid

1 in 8 of primary school age

Source: Deepti Gurdasani, senior lecturer in epidemiology at Queen Mary University, London

The seemingly widespread dismissal by the gung ho "open it up ta fook" brigade of the notion that super lethal and/or vaccine-evasive variants could spread widely if restrictions are abolished is baffling

There's some sort of psychlogical inadequacy or denial condition going on there




Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 11:10:19 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 23, 2021, 11:08:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 11:03:21 AM
Quote from: Louther on February 23, 2021, 10:59:50 AM
I'll have no issue taking it. I've a sister who said she isn't taking it and only reason she can offer is that it's too new and not tested enough. She in late 40s.

My fear would be that not enough take it and it mutates further and becomes more harmful in particular to children who seem relatively unharmed to date from the virus. If a variant becomes apparent that harms them before the vaccine is tested and applied to this age, then it wouldn't be worth trying to contemplate. I know it might be reaching but if someone explained the next 12 months to me this time last year, they'd have been laughed at.

So what timeline is acceptable? 5 years 10 years? Is it studies and results from research that will 'inform' people of its possible benefits/negatives?

I've no idea what would keep her or that way of thinking happy. The same one would have taken some "rubbish" over the years without a care in the world.

I think when it comes to it she could change her mind and stop reading 2 line medical opinions on Facebook  ::)
Question everything, except two line medical opinions from some randomer on Facebook
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 23, 2021, 11:16:58 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 11:05:51 AM
I'll take the vaccination by the way. But why we would force/expect healthy people in their teens and twenties to take a vaccine for a virus that is basically a non threat to them, well that's just f**king wrong on every level.

Consideration of risk is fine, but that consideration has to to take into account the testing by thousands of medical researchers and public bodies all over the world. Society always asks us to do things, I am supposed to not cough over people but anything I cough out will not damage me so why should I worry about someone else? Likewise taxes are extracted from my income to pay for drug clinics, why should I pay for these since I do not take drugs? In both cases I benefit indirectly from other people not having Covid and not having druggies around the place and everyone benefits from vaccination as it gets rid of this disease and the measures needed to control it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on February 23, 2021, 11:17:30 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 11:05:51 AM
The vaccine discussion tends to end up with pro-vaccine zealots smirking and nodding heads at each other after posting something along the lines of "same lad won't take the vaccine just ordered a mystery meat burger / line of coke / something heavily processed".

Would you wise to f**k up folks. Here's the basics: when you buy anything local or buy anything often, it's traceable. Not what's in it, so much as if there's any side effects. And if there's no known side effects, then what does it matter what's in it?

Stop acting like you're smarter and more considered about risk than anyone else. We are humans. We are all born with eyes, ears and noses, that allow us to risk detect what we digest.

——

I'll take the vaccination by the way. But why we would force/expect healthy people in their teens and twenties to take a vaccine for a virus that is basically a non threat to them, well that's just f**king wrong on every level.

Good stuff Wobbler, what ever happened to the pro choice brigade, my body my choice. The narrative suits sometimes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 11:17:44 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 11:05:51 AM
The vaccine discussion tends to end up with pro-vaccine zealots smirking and nodding heads at each other after posting something along the lines of "same lad won't take the vaccine just ordered a mystery meat burger / line of coke / something heavily processed".

Would you wise to f**k up folks. Here's the basics: when you buy anything local or buy anything often, it's traceable. Not what's in it, so much as if there's any side effects. And if there's no known side effects, then what does it matter what's in it?

Stop acting like you're smarter and more considered about risk than anyone else. We are humans. We are all born with eyes, ears and noses, that allow us to risk detect what we digest.

——

I'll take the vaccination by the way. But why we would force/expect healthy people in their teens and twenties to take a vaccine for a virus that is basically a non threat to them, well that's just f**king wrong on every level.
People need to wise up and realise that the whole concept of expertise is bunkum and that randomers on Facebook know just as much as any so called expert

Democratisation of information is just the best

There is no truth

We've seen this in so many areas

Pro seat-belt zealots need to shut up and realise that people should make the best decisions for themselves

Driving a car without a seat belt carries no appreciable extra risk for the vast majority people, in fact it inhibits a lot of people's ability to drive

I call them body nappies

I hate seat belt zealots, so smug and thinking they're smarter than everybody else

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 11:19:04 AM
Quote from: Rudi on February 23, 2021, 11:17:30 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 11:05:51 AM
The vaccine discussion tends to end up with pro-vaccine zealots smirking and nodding heads at each other after posting something along the lines of "same lad won't take the vaccine just ordered a mystery meat burger / line of coke / something heavily processed".

Would you wise to f**k up folks. Here's the basics: when you buy anything local or buy anything often, it's traceable. Not what's in it, so much as if there's any side effects. And if there's no known side effects, then what does it matter what's in it?

Stop acting like you're smarter and more considered about risk than anyone else. We are humans. We are all born with eyes, ears and noses, that allow us to risk detect what we digest.

——

I'll take the vaccination by the way. But why we would force/expect healthy people in their teens and twenties to take a vaccine for a virus that is basically a non threat to them, well that's just f**king wrong on every level.

Good stuff Wobbler, what ever happened to the pro choice brigade, my body my choice. The narrative suits sometimes.
Absolutely, if I want to drive after 10 pints, I should have that choice
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on February 23, 2021, 11:22:21 AM
The government are running a campaign in the UK regarding BAME groups. I'd like to see that extended to younger people when the time comes. Certainly some parts of society could lead, sports people, certain celebs. Think that might be helpful initially a long with an educational approach. There is definitely a misunderstanding on why we need everyone who possibly can to get vaccinated and not just "at risk" groups. People don't understand that and we can see examples of that in this thread.

In a broader point a lot of vaccine scepticism has come from the widely discredited paper by Andrew Wakefield who was rightly struck off. The man should be in prison.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 11:23:33 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 10:59:11 AM
In the same way that we have trainspotters, planespotters and UFO spotters, we will surely soon have Moderna vaccine spotters

A lad I know swears he spotted one in Limerick last week, but I don't believe him

From my experience, you can get anything in Limerick
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 11:31:48 AM
I see the fascists are trying to insist people be injected with a need against their will.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 11:34:37 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 11:05:51 AM
The vaccine discussion tends to end up with pro-vaccine zealots smirking and nodding heads at each other after posting something along the lines of "same lad won't take the vaccine just ordered a mystery meat burger / line of coke / something heavily processed".

Would you wise to f**k up folks. Here's the basics: when you buy anything local or buy anything often, it's traceable. Not what's in it, so much as if there's any side effects. And if there's no known side effects, then what does it matter what's in it?

Stop acting like you're smarter and more considered about risk than anyone else. We are humans. We are all born with eyes, ears and noses, that allow us to risk detect what we digest.

——

I'll take the vaccination by the way. But why we would force/expect healthy people in their teens and twenties to take a vaccine for a virus that is basically a non threat to them, well that's just f**king wrong on every level.

We give healthy kids vaccines every year, and not an eyebrow raised.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 11:37:51 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 23, 2021, 11:22:21 AM
The government are running a campaign in the UK regarding BAME groups. I'd like to see that extended to younger people when the time comes. Certainly some parts of society could lead, sports people, certain celebs. Think that might be helpful initially a long with an educational approach. There is definitely a misunderstanding on why we need everyone who possibly can to get vaccinated and not just "at risk" groups. People don't understand that and we can see examples of that in this thread.

In a broader point a lot of vaccine scepticism has come from the widely discredited paper by Andrew Wakefield who was rightly struck off. The man should be in prison.
The Yanks could get Lance Armstrong to front it

"As somebody who has injected all sorts of horrible shit into their arm over the years, believe me when I tell you this is good stuff"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 11:38:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 11:34:37 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 11:05:51 AM
The vaccine discussion tends to end up with pro-vaccine zealots smirking and nodding heads at each other after posting something along the lines of "same lad won't take the vaccine just ordered a mystery meat burger / line of coke / something heavily processed".

Would you wise to f**k up folks. Here's the basics: when you buy anything local or buy anything often, it's traceable. Not what's in it, so much as if there's any side effects. And if there's no known side effects, then what does it matter what's in it?

Stop acting like you're smarter and more considered about risk than anyone else. We are humans. We are all born with eyes, ears and noses, that allow us to risk detect what we digest.

——

I'll take the vaccination by the way. But why we would force/expect healthy people in their teens and twenties to take a vaccine for a virus that is basically a non threat to them, well that's just f**king wrong on every level.

We give healthy kids vaccines every year, and not an eyebrow raised.
Fascism, apparently
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 11:34:37 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 11:05:51 AM
The vaccine discussion tends to end up with pro-vaccine zealots smirking and nodding heads at each other after posting something along the lines of "same lad won't take the vaccine just ordered a mystery meat burger / line of coke / something heavily processed".

Would you wise to f**k up folks. Here's the basics: when you buy anything local or buy anything often, it's traceable. Not what's in it, so much as if there's any side effects. And if there's no known side effects, then what does it matter what's in it?

Stop acting like you're smarter and more considered about risk than anyone else. We are humans. We are all born with eyes, ears and noses, that allow us to risk detect what we digest.

——

I'll take the vaccination by the way. But why we would force/expect healthy people in their teens and twenties to take a vaccine for a virus that is basically a non threat to them, well that's just f**king wrong on every level.

We give healthy kids vaccines every year, and not an eyebrow raised.

Do we ever give them one developed and approved in under a year, no?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 11:43:41 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 11:38:26 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 11:34:37 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 11:05:51 AM
The vaccine discussion tends to end up with pro-vaccine zealots smirking and nodding heads at each other after posting something along the lines of "same lad won't take the vaccine just ordered a mystery meat burger / line of coke / something heavily processed".

Would you wise to f**k up folks. Here's the basics: when you buy anything local or buy anything often, it's traceable. Not what's in it, so much as if there's any side effects. And if there's no known side effects, then what does it matter what's in it?

Stop acting like you're smarter and more considered about risk than anyone else. We are humans. We are all born with eyes, ears and noses, that allow us to risk detect what we digest.

——

I'll take the vaccination by the way. But why we would force/expect healthy people in their teens and twenties to take a vaccine for a virus that is basically a non threat to them, well that's just f**king wrong on every level.

We give healthy kids vaccines every year, and not an eyebrow raised.
Fascism, apparently

You think people should not have a say in whether they receive an injection or not.

That is fascism.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 11:47:14 AM
I got injections as a nipper without having a choice

Turns out I'm a victim of fascism, I just didn't know it at the time

I want compensation!

I want justice!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 11:47:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 11:34:37 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 11:05:51 AM
The vaccine discussion tends to end up with pro-vaccine zealots smirking and nodding heads at each other after posting something along the lines of "same lad won't take the vaccine just ordered a mystery meat burger / line of coke / something heavily processed".

Would you wise to f**k up folks. Here's the basics: when you buy anything local or buy anything often, it's traceable. Not what's in it, so much as if there's any side effects. And if there's no known side effects, then what does it matter what's in it?

Stop acting like you're smarter and more considered about risk than anyone else. We are humans. We are all born with eyes, ears and noses, that allow us to risk detect what we digest.

——

I'll take the vaccination by the way. But why we would force/expect healthy people in their teens and twenties to take a vaccine for a virus that is basically a non threat to them, well that's just f**king wrong on every level.

We give healthy kids vaccines every year, and not an eyebrow raised.

Do we ever give them one developed and approved in under a year, no?

I'm not up to date on these things, was it developed first and trialed for 5 or 10 years before it was given out? Is it tweaked every year? And is that trialed for a period?

Again I'm just asking, you seem knowledgeable on this stuff
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 11:48:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 11:34:37 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 11:05:51 AM
The vaccine discussion tends to end up with pro-vaccine zealots smirking and nodding heads at each other after posting something along the lines of "same lad won't take the vaccine just ordered a mystery meat burger / line of coke / something heavily processed".

Would you wise to f**k up folks. Here's the basics: when you buy anything local or buy anything often, it's traceable. Not what's in it, so much as if there's any side effects. And if there's no known side effects, then what does it matter what's in it?

Stop acting like you're smarter and more considered about risk than anyone else. We are humans. We are all born with eyes, ears and noses, that allow us to risk detect what we digest.

——

I'll take the vaccination by the way. But why we would force/expect healthy people in their teens and twenties to take a vaccine for a virus that is basically a non threat to them, well that's just f**king wrong on every level.

We give healthy kids vaccines every year, and not an eyebrow raised.

It is fair to say MR2 that there are concerns about them around autism etc, im not sure of scientific evidence, but it was always talked about when my children were young
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 23, 2021, 11:49:52 AM
Do the Wobblers, Rudis etc ever wonder why polio, diphtheria,  smallpox and other former prevalent diseases don't attack us any more?
Thankfully there was no Facebook when those vaccines started.
Hopefully we will see "No vaccination No entry" policy in vogue everywhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 11:53:26 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 11:48:25 AM

It is fair to say MR2 that there are concerns about them around autism etc, im not sure of scientific evidence, but it was always talked about when my children were young
A lot of people talk about the moon landings being faked

A lot of people talk about a shooter on the grassy knoll when Kennedy was shot

A lot of people talk about 9/11 being an inside job

A lot of people talk about Elvis still being alive

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on February 23, 2021, 12:00:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 23, 2021, 11:49:52 AM
Do the Wobblers, Rudis etc ever wonder why polio, diphtheria,  smallpox and other former prevalent diseases don't attack us any more?
Thankfully there was no Facebook when those vaccines started.
Hopefully we will see "No vaccination No entry" policy in vogue everywhere.

Bang on que Rossfan, yet again wades in with mis-repersentations of what was actually posted. I dont have a facebook account never have, never will. Read what was said you fool. I dont know if you're dyslexic or something, you seem to continually read things wrong. Incrediably annoying, nearly as bad as Syffin!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 12:03:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 23, 2021, 11:49:52 AM
Do the Wobblers, Rudis etc ever wonder why polio, diphtheria,  smallpox and other former prevalent diseases don't attack us any more?
Thankfully there was no Facebook when those vaccines started.
Hopefully we will see "No vaccination No entry" policy in vogue everywhere.

Do you think I'm 5 years old?

The fundamental reality is this is not a black and white issue. No matter how much you want it to be.

The most deplorable human trait of all is zealotry. Through its manifestations  in religion, nationalism and political creed, zealotry has likely been responsible for more untimely deaths than all viruses in history combined.

And when we are dealing with theories rather than theorems, to throw your conviction 100% into one slant of a subject matter is the basis of zealotry. To shame people for not following your thought patterns is zealotry. To attack people for not following your thought patterns is zealotry. To find likeminded people and coordinate attacks on those "dissenters" is why war is waged. Through zealotry.

Demanding that every human being be injected with an unnatural substance, regardless of whether they need it or if it will be of any benefit to them is zealotry. It's not about the greater good. It's about wanting people to do what you want.

——

I sincerely hope the whole world gets vaccinated.

But I will never castigate a person, especially a young healthy person with overflowing loins and 80 good years left on the clock, for being unwilling to comply. Not until that theory becomes a theorem.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 23, 2021, 11:49:52 AM
Do the Wobblers, Rudis etc ever wonder why polio, diphtheria,  smallpox and other former prevalent diseases don't attack us any more?
Thankfully there was no Facebook when those vaccines started.
Hopefully we will see "No vaccination No entry" policy in vogue everywhere.

That is a dangerous path to trod.

It won't help anything, infact it will maybe undermine things more than you appreciate.

The figures are out, people know. 99.98% of people will get Covid and be fine.....to bring in something like that people will start going on the mad conspiracy tangents....it's not helpful to try and promote something like that - we need people to take it on of their own free will, when you force, there will be resistance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 12:09:41 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 12:03:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 23, 2021, 11:49:52 AM
Do the Wobblers, Rudis etc ever wonder why polio, diphtheria,  smallpox and other former prevalent diseases don't attack us any more?
Thankfully there was no Facebook when those vaccines started.
Hopefully we will see "No vaccination No entry" policy in vogue everywhere.

Do you think I'm 5 years old?

The fundamental reality is this is not a black and white issue. No matter how much you want it to be.

The most deplorable human trait of all is zealotry. Through its manifestations  in religion, nationalism and political creed, zealotry has likely been responsible for more untimely deaths than all viruses in history combined.

And when we are dealing with theories rather than theorems, to throw your conviction 100% into one slant of a subject matter is the basis of zealotry. To shame people for not following your thought patterns is zealotry. To attack people for not following your thought patterns is zealotry. To find likeminded people and coordinate attacks on those "dissenters" is why war is waged. Through zealotry.

Demanding that every human being be injected with an unnatural substance, regardless of whether they need it or if it will be of any benefit to them is zealotry. It's not about the greater good. It's about wanting people to do what you want.

Profound, did you find it on Facebook?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 12:11:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 11:53:26 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 11:48:25 AM

It is fair to say MR2 that there are concerns about them around autism etc, im not sure of scientific evidence, but it was always talked about when my children were young
A lot of people talk about the moon landings being faked

A lot of people talk about a shooter on the grassy knoll when Kennedy was shot

A lot of people talk about 9/11 being an inside job

A lot of people talk about Elvis still being alive

i know, but none of those things are vaccines and at least 1 could be true lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on February 23, 2021, 12:11:10 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 23, 2021, 11:49:52 AM
Do the Wobblers, Rudis etc ever wonder why polio, diphtheria,  smallpox and other former prevalent diseases don't attack us any more?
Thankfully there was no Facebook when those vaccines started.
Hopefully we will see "No vaccination No entry" policy in vogue everywhere.

That is a dangerous path to trod.

It won't help anything, infact it will maybe undermine things more than you appreciate.

The figures are out, people know. 99.98% of people will get Covid and be fine.....to bring in something like that people will start going on the mad conspiracy tangents....it's not helpful to try and promote something like that - we need people to take it on of their own free will, when you force, there will be resistance.

Thats what happens when people work in a meaningless public sector cushy number, they have time to come up with ch+t like that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 12:12:31 PM
Fackin' useless cushy public sector layabouts, savin' our lives

Don't need 'em

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 12:14:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 12:11:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 11:53:26 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 11:48:25 AM

It is fair to say MR2 that there are concerns about them around autism etc, im not sure of scientific evidence, but it was always talked about when my children were young
A lot of people talk about the moon landings being faked

A lot of people talk about a shooter on the grassy knoll when Kennedy was shot

A lot of people talk about 9/11 being an inside job

A lot of people talk about Elvis still being alive

i know, but none of those things are vaccines and at least 1 could be true lol
Which one?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on February 23, 2021, 12:16:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 11:48:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 11:34:37 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 11:05:51 AM
The vaccine discussion tends to end up with pro-vaccine zealots smirking and nodding heads at each other after posting something along the lines of "same lad won't take the vaccine just ordered a mystery meat burger / line of coke / something heavily processed".

Would you wise to f**k up folks. Here's the basics: when you buy anything local or buy anything often, it's traceable. Not what's in it, so much as if there's any side effects. And if there's no known side effects, then what does it matter what's in it?

Stop acting like you're smarter and more considered about risk than anyone else. We are humans. We are all born with eyes, ears and noses, that allow us to risk detect what we digest.

——

I'll take the vaccination by the way. But why we would force/expect healthy people in their teens and twenties to take a vaccine for a virus that is basically a non threat to them, well that's just f**king wrong on every level.

We give healthy kids vaccines every year, and not an eyebrow raised.

It is fair to say MR2 that there are concerns about them around autism etc, im not sure of scientific evidence, but it was always talked about when my children were young

There is absolutely no evidence, scientific or otherwise, that supports those claims. Andrew Wakefield who published that report has been struck off and widely discredited.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 12:19:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 23, 2021, 12:16:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 11:48:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 11:34:37 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 11:05:51 AM
The vaccine discussion tends to end up with pro-vaccine zealots smirking and nodding heads at each other after posting something along the lines of "same lad won't take the vaccine just ordered a mystery meat burger / line of coke / something heavily processed".

Would you wise to f**k up folks. Here's the basics: when you buy anything local or buy anything often, it's traceable. Not what's in it, so much as if there's any side effects. And if there's no known side effects, then what does it matter what's in it?

Stop acting like you're smarter and more considered about risk than anyone else. We are humans. We are all born with eyes, ears and noses, that allow us to risk detect what we digest.

——

I'll take the vaccination by the way. But why we would force/expect healthy people in their teens and twenties to take a vaccine for a virus that is basically a non threat to them, well that's just f**king wrong on every level.

We give healthy kids vaccines every year, and not an eyebrow raised.

It is fair to say MR2 that there are concerns about them around autism etc, im not sure of scientific evidence, but it was always talked about when my children were young

There is absolutely no evidence, scientific or otherwise, that supports those claims. Andrew Wakefield who published that report has been struck off and widely discredited.
Wake(field) up, sheeple!

Those that try to discredit him are zealots!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 12:20:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 23, 2021, 12:16:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 11:48:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 11:34:37 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 11:05:51 AM
The vaccine discussion tends to end up with pro-vaccine zealots smirking and nodding heads at each other after posting something along the lines of "same lad won't take the vaccine just ordered a mystery meat burger / line of coke / something heavily processed".

Would you wise to f**k up folks. Here's the basics: when you buy anything local or buy anything often, it's traceable. Not what's in it, so much as if there's any side effects. And if there's no known side effects, then what does it matter what's in it?

Stop acting like you're smarter and more considered about risk than anyone else. We are humans. We are all born with eyes, ears and noses, that allow us to risk detect what we digest.

——

I'll take the vaccination by the way. But why we would force/expect healthy people in their teens and twenties to take a vaccine for a virus that is basically a non threat to them, well that's just f**king wrong on every level.

We give healthy kids vaccines every year, and not an eyebrow raised.

It is fair to say MR2 that there are concerns about them around autism etc, im not sure of scientific evidence, but it was always talked about when my children were young

There is absolutely no evidence, scientific or otherwise, that supports those claims. Andrew Wakefield who published that report has been struck off and widely discredited.

My point is, there were concerns, widespread doubt amongst parents, evidence not so sure, those doubts still persist, ive said enough, stated my position and leaving it at that, tit for tat is energy sapping
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 12:21:41 PM
"Many people think..."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 12:22:54 PM
No Sid. Not even close.

Those who demand that others blindly follow their creed are zealots. That's what zealotry is. You are a prime, grade A zealot in every aspect of your controlled thinking. Which is why you are so unlikeable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 12:26:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 12:22:54 PM
No Sid. Not even close.

Those who demand that others blindly follow their creed are zealots. That's what zealotry is. You are a prime, grade A zealot in every aspect of your controlled thinking. Which is why you are so unlikeable.
I'm controlled by Bill Gates and have a 5G chip in me

You on the other hand are a truly free thinker who knows nothing is true, everything is possible and all opinions are equal in merit to each other, except mine, which are worthless
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 12:29:28 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 23, 2021, 11:49:52 AM
Do the Wobblers, Rudis etc ever wonder why polio, diphtheria,  smallpox and other former prevalent diseases don't attack us any more?
Thankfully there was no Facebook when those vaccines started.
Hopefully we will see "No vaccination No entry" policy in vogue everywhere.

Does anyone want to explain to this self-anointed expert about the number of people that were left paralysed as a result of the polio vaccine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on February 23, 2021, 12:30:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 12:12:31 PM
Fackin' useless cushy public sector layabouts, savin' our lives

Don't need 'em

Again a waste of time debating with a fool like you. Where did I say doctors and nurses had cushy numbers, you see what you want to see. Dont waste your time replying I'm done with fools like you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 12:31:33 PM
Quote from: Rudi on February 23, 2021, 12:30:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 12:12:31 PM
Fackin' useless cushy public sector layabouts, savin' our lives

Don't need 'em

Again a waste of time debating with a fool like you. Where did I say doctors and nurses had cushy numbers, you see what you want to see. Dont waste your time replying I'm done with fools like you.
Look who's sneering now

Looks like we have ourselves a zealot, eh Wobbler?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 12:33:32 PM
What a gotcha by the Putinbot on the polio vaccine

This is conclusive evidence all vaccines are dangerous, except the Russian one

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 12:35:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 12:26:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 12:22:54 PM
No Sid. Not even close.

Those who demand that others blindly follow their creed are zealots. That's what zealotry is. You are a prime, grade A zealot in every aspect of your controlled thinking. Which is why you are so unlikeable.
I'm controlled by Bill Gates and have a 5G chip in me

You on the other hand are a truly free thinker who knows nothing is true, everything is possible and all opinions are equal in merit to each other, except mine, which are worthless

Your opinions are far from worthless. But the value in your opinions is all too often diminished by the conviction in presenting them as unchallengeable, and your predilection for reducing every conversation into a matter of left v right.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 12:38:48 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 12:31:33 PM
Quote from: Rudi on February 23, 2021, 12:30:23 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 12:12:31 PM
Fackin' useless cushy public sector layabouts, savin' our lives

Don't need 'em

Again a waste of time debating with a fool like you. Where did I say doctors and nurses had cushy numbers, you see what you want to see. Dont waste your time replying I'm done with fools like you.
Look who's sneering now

Looks like we have ourselves a zealot, eh Wobbler?

We will have another go at this Sid.

Debating with someone isn't zealotry. Disagreeing with someone isn't zealotry.

You know this too.

Stop being obtuse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 12:41:36 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 12:35:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 12:26:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 12:22:54 PM
No Sid. Not even close.

Those who demand that others blindly follow their creed are zealots. That's what zealotry is. You are a prime, grade A zealot in every aspect of your controlled thinking. Which is why you are so unlikeable.
I'm controlled by Bill Gates and have a 5G chip in me

You on the other hand are a truly free thinker who knows nothing is true, everything is possible and all opinions are equal in merit to each other, except mine, which are worthless

Your opinions are far from worthless. But the value in your opinions is all too often diminished by the conviction in presenting them as unchallengeable, and your predilection for reducing every conversation into a matter of left v right.
On the contrary I always welcome challenge

To you, challenge is "zealotry" because you hold the view that every opinion is equal in merit

That is a recipe for a world in which no progress can ever be achieved, because it is a world where there is no such thing as truth or fact

We're getting to the kernel of this now

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on February 23, 2021, 12:42:53 PM
We're rehashing a lot of old arguments around vaccines. But I will leave you with a couple of thoughts. Unless a large percentage of the population get vaccinated certainly greater than 70% we will never have normal. It'll be rolling maybe localised lockdowns as we deal with flare ups or even worse mutations. So what is your solution / alternative?
For those people who want a better society then nothing will improve your community more than you getting the vaccine. So you can complain about governments and their handling of this pandemic but to be offered this route out and then not take it is foolish. No government will stand for a health service being overstretched. BJ made it clear with English roadmap that the vaccination programme's success is key. If it starts to run out of steam then restrictions will continue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 23, 2021, 12:49:58 PM
"Every opinion is equal in merit"
Edwin Poots' opinion is that Earth is 4,000 ( or was it 6,000) years old.
Geologists/Scientists etc say its 4 or 6,000,000,000 years old.
Equal?

I see Rudin at the personal stuff again and sneering at dyslexics as well.
He's a proper right winger alright!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 12:54:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 23, 2021, 12:42:53 PM
We're rehashing a lot of old arguments around vaccines. But I will leave you with a couple of thoughts. Unless a large percentage of the population get vaccinated certainly greater than 70% we will never have normal. It'll be rolling maybe localised lockdowns as we deal with flare ups or even worse mutations. So what is your solution / alternative?
For those people who want a better society then nothing will improve your community more than you getting the vaccine. So you can complain about governments and their handling of this pandemic but to be offered this route out and then not take it is foolish. No government will stand for a health service being overstretched. BJ made it clear with English roadmap that the vaccination programme's success is key. If it starts to run out of steam then restrictions will continue.
Wobbler asked the question: "why would any young person get vaccinated?"

i) because Covid poses a threat to them, perhaps not a massive threat, but a threat nonetheless
ii) because Covid poses a greater threat to older people, and we all know and love or have loved older people, and they deserve a fair shot at living
iii) because we have to exist in society - and every person alive has an interest that society functions - and it cannot function with Covid running rampant

This is about basic societal solidarity, not horrible individualism

Therefore it is entirely appropriate that society puts measures in place which give advantages to those who are responsible and disadvantages those who are not

If your mother was in hospital, should she have the choice of being treated or attended to by somebody who has refused to be vaccinated

Should she have that information

What if she is not in a position to make that choice

To any reasonable person, the answer is yes, she should have that choice, or if she is not in a position to make that choice, her loved ones should

That is a real case of empowering society to make the best decisions

And if somebody who refuses to get vaccinated suffers from that, well, that's their choice, but they shouldn't expect there not to be consequences





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 01:00:17 PM
At no point have I ever suggested that every opinion is equal.

But if your opinion is layered with theory and/or ideology, then it is a belief. Expecting everyone else to ignore the theory and ideology, is arrogant. Demanding they do, is zealotry.

Ridiculing crazed religious fundamentalists like Poots for following this path is, in in my opinion, perfectly acceptable. They are most obviously bat shit crazy. But doing so while exhibiting similar traits when it comes to other subjects, well that's either hypocrisy or a functional inability to evaluate your own opinions at the correct level.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 23, 2021, 01:01:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 23, 2021, 11:49:52 AM
Do the Wobblers, Rudis etc ever wonder why polio, diphtheria,  smallpox and other former prevalent diseases don't attack us any more?
Thankfully there was no Facebook when those vaccines started.
Hopefully we will see "No vaccination No entry" policy in vogue everywhere.
nutcase.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 01:16:45 PM
To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on February 23, 2021, 01:17:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 23, 2021, 12:49:58 PM
"Every opinion is equal in merit"
Edwin Poots' opinion is that Earth is 4,000 ( or was it 6,000) years old.
Geologists/Scientists etc say its 4 or 6,000,000,000 years old.
Equal?

I see Rudin at the personal stuff again and sneering at dyslexics as well.
He's a proper right winger alright!!

Yet again you mis repersent what is posted, thats why I suggested you may be dyslexic. I don't think you are though, I think you do this on purpose to suit your narrative. I have a daughter who is dyslexic btw & I know her daily struggles with it. Daft comment at the end of your post & no attempt to address what I actually said in relation to your original post. I have come to expect this from you over the years. As regards the personal stuff again, try actually debating what was actually said, instead of drawing daft conclusions.
You have no problem knit picking and singling out indivudual posters for ridicule (which is a form of abuse itself) yet you go crying & tell other posters to block lads yourself when they debate in a manner that doesn't suit you.
BTW your the fella who wants to block numerous posters including Sid.
I don't think your a bad lad, some of your posts are informative & decent, just lay off the ridicule of posters you don't agree with.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 01:22:22 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 01:16:45 PM
To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.

Your fundamental point is incorrect.

The only verifiable upside of a vaccine is that it reduces severity of the virus. It does not reduce people cathcing it or transmitting it that has been proven yet. It does not stop the vaccine from mutating that been proven yet.

The whole premise of your argument is flawed.

For the likes of me, someone fit and healthy in the u40 category, there is no upside to the vaccine for me that would encourage me to take it? It's not going to save my life, all it might do is give me a rather milder dose of something that is not going to cause problems anyway. But yet there are a number of zealots here who demand people should not have free will to decide whether they want to get an injection or not and there are a lot of genuine grounds for people having reservations that people are ignoring. It's basically fascism that people are trying to force this vaccine on the general population.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 01:25:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 12:54:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 23, 2021, 12:42:53 PM
We're rehashing a lot of old arguments around vaccines. But I will leave you with a couple of thoughts. Unless a large percentage of the population get vaccinated certainly greater than 70% we will never have normal. It'll be rolling maybe localised lockdowns as we deal with flare ups or even worse mutations. So what is your solution / alternative?
For those people who want a better society then nothing will improve your community more than you getting the vaccine. So you can complain about governments and their handling of this pandemic but to be offered this route out and then not take it is foolish. No government will stand for a health service being overstretched. BJ made it clear with English roadmap that the vaccination programme's success is key. If it starts to run out of steam then restrictions will continue.
Wobbler asked the question: "why would any young person get vaccinated?"

i) because Covid poses a threat to them, perhaps not a massive threat, but a threat nonetheless
ii) because Covid poses a greater threat to older people, and we all know and love or have loved older people, and they deserve a fair shot at living
iii) because we have to exist in society - and every person alive has an interest that society functions - and it cannot function with Covid running rampant

This is about basic societal solidarity, not horrible individualism

Therefore it is entirely appropriate that society puts measures in place which give advantages to those who are responsible and disadvantages those who are not

If your mother was in hospital, should she have the choice of being treated or attended to by somebody who has refused to be vaccinated

Should she have that information

What if she is not in a position to make that choice

To any reasonable person, the answer is yes, she should have that choice, or if she is not in a position to make that choice, her loved ones should

That is a real case of empowering society to make the best decisions

And if somebody who refuses to get vaccinated suffers from that, well, that's their choice, but they shouldn't expect there not to be consequences


"Societal solidarity"

"Empowering society"

"To any reasonable person"

Emotive language cannot mask the fact that the utopia you yearn for, demands that any citizen who refuses to succumb to your will, would be outcast. As societal policies go, the sheer black and white stance means it doesn't get much more divisive than that.

Out of curiosity - and this is a genuine question not a fishing attempt - is there a percentage of the population you have in mind, that must agree with your approach, before it can be considered the will of society? Would 50.1% be enough? Would 70% be enough to trod over the wishes of 30%? I'm assuming that the feelings of the great unwashed wouldn't be ignored.





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 01:31:20 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 23, 2021, 12:16:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 11:48:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 11:34:37 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 11:05:51 AM
The vaccine discussion tends to end up with pro-vaccine zealots smirking and nodding heads at each other after posting something along the lines of "same lad won't take the vaccine just ordered a mystery meat burger / line of coke / something heavily processed".

Would you wise to f**k up folks. Here's the basics: when you buy anything local or buy anything often, it's traceable. Not what's in it, so much as if there's any side effects. And if there's no known side effects, then what does it matter what's in it?

Stop acting like you're smarter and more considered about risk than anyone else. We are humans. We are all born with eyes, ears and noses, that allow us to risk detect what we digest.

——

I'll take the vaccination by the way. But why we would force/expect healthy people in their teens and twenties to take a vaccine for a virus that is basically a non threat to them, well that's just f**king wrong on every level.

We give healthy kids vaccines every year, and not an eyebrow raised.

It is fair to say MR2 that there are concerns about them around autism etc, im not sure of scientific evidence, but it was always talked about when my children were young

There is absolutely no evidence, scientific or otherwise, that supports those claims. Andrew Wakefield who published that report has been struck off and widely discredited.

I'm at odds with this as I don't know the full facts on whether autism has been increased or caused by vaccinations, I'd be certain that autism has been around for a long time, before national vaccines were brought about, so I think it hasn't been generated by a vaccine. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:31:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 01:22:22 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 01:16:45 PM
To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.

Your fundamental point is incorrect.

The only verifiable upside of a vaccine is that it reduces severity of the virus. It does not reduce people cathcing it or transmitting it that has been proven yet. It does not stop the vaccine from mutating that been proven yet.

The whole premise of your argument is flawed.

For the likes of me, someone fit and healthy in the u40 category, there is no upside to the vaccine for me that would encourage me to take it? It's not going to save my life, all it might do is give me a rather milder dose of something that is not going to cause problems anyway. But yet there are a number of zealots here who demand people should not have free will to decide whether they want to get an injection or not and there are a lot of genuine grounds for people having reservations that people are ignoring. It's basically fascism that people are trying to force this vaccine on the general population.

I don't know if anyone will take that argument on with you Angelo. It's fair enough.

Look this is just going to be a life choice - You can't force people to have a vaccine, it's just immoral to suggest anyone take something they don't want to. That is the world, thankfully we live in.

I think we ran a poll here again recently and it was heavily in favour of those who would take the vaccine, but if you choose to not take the vaccine I would have no problem with you either. I'm 28, do I want to take the vaccine? Not particularly, will I take it if it gets me back to a decent life? Absolutely.

I do not agree with the forcing of the vaccine onto people via vaccine passports and this type of thing that is flying around. Surely there is a trade off to be made, if we have vaccinated the most vulnerable third of the population in Northern Ireland....isn't that what the aim was all along?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 23, 2021, 01:32:51 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 23, 2021, 11:49:52 AM
Do the Wobblers, Rudis etc ever wonder why polio, diphtheria,  smallpox and other former prevalent diseases don't attack us any more?
Thankfully there was no Facebook when those vaccines started.
Hopefully we will see "No vaccination No entry" policy in vogue everywhere.

That is a dangerous path to trod.

It won't help anything, infact it will maybe undermine things more than you appreciate.

The figures are out, people know. 99.98% of people will get Covid and be fine.....to bring in something like that people will start going on the mad conspiracy tangents....it's not helpful to try and promote something like that - we need people to take it on of their own free will, when you force, there will be resistance.

There are restrictions on people all the time, naked people cannot go into supermarkets in most places.
I would expect restrictions on people who refuse to get vaccinated. They are free to make that choice if they stay away from other people, but they should not be allowed go on aeroplanes, work in health care environments or indeed enter GAA grounds.

This is not an imminent thing, there is still 6 months of vaccination to go. By then there will have been up to one billion people vaccinated, there will be 7 or 8 vaccines using different approaches, there will be hundreds of research datasets describing the use of the these. Any problems will be addressed and concerns can be alleviated if people look to this information and not nutters on Facebook. But if people wish to ignore science and be thran for their own reasons, then they must pay a price in terms of lack of access to public places inhabited by responsible people.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 01:33:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:31:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 01:22:22 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 01:16:45 PM
To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.

Your fundamental point is incorrect.

The only verifiable upside of a vaccine is that it reduces severity of the virus. It does not reduce people cathcing it or transmitting it that has been proven yet. It does not stop the vaccine from mutating that been proven yet.

The whole premise of your argument is flawed.

For the likes of me, someone fit and healthy in the u40 category, there is no upside to the vaccine for me that would encourage me to take it? It's not going to save my life, all it might do is give me a rather milder dose of something that is not going to cause problems anyway. But yet there are a number of zealots here who demand people should not have free will to decide whether they want to get an injection or not and there are a lot of genuine grounds for people having reservations that people are ignoring. It's basically fascism that people are trying to force this vaccine on the general population.

I don't know if anyone will take that argument on with you Angelo. It's fair enough.

Look this is just going to be a life choice - You can't force people to have a vaccine, it's just immoral to suggest anyone take something they don't want to. That is the world, thankfully we live in.

I think we ran a poll here again recently and it was heavily in favour of those who would take the vaccine, but if you choose to not take the vaccine I would have no problem with you either. I'm 28, do I want to take the vaccine? Not particularly, will I take it if it gets me back to a decent life? Absolutely.

I do not agree with the forcing of the vaccine onto people via vaccine passports and this type of thing that is flying around. Surely there is a trade off to be made, if we have vaccinated the most vulnerable third of the population in Northern Ireland....isn't that what the aim was all along?

Will you wait till your children are old enough to make up their own decisions on the vaccines they should take at an early age?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:34:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2021, 01:32:51 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 23, 2021, 11:49:52 AM
Do the Wobblers, Rudis etc ever wonder why polio, diphtheria,  smallpox and other former prevalent diseases don't attack us any more?
Thankfully there was no Facebook when those vaccines started.
Hopefully we will see "No vaccination No entry" policy in vogue everywhere.

That is a dangerous path to trod.

It won't help anything, infact it will maybe undermine things more than you appreciate.

The figures are out, people know. 99.98% of people will get Covid and be fine.....to bring in something like that people will start going on the mad conspiracy tangents....it's not helpful to try and promote something like that - we need people to take it on of their own free will, when you force, there will be resistance.

There are restrictions on people all the time, naked people cannot go into supermarkets in most places.
I would expect restrictions on people who refuse to get vaccinated. They are free to make that choice if they stay away from other people, but they should not be allowed go on aeroplanes, work in health care environments or indeed enter GAA grounds.

This is not an imminent thing, there is still 6 months of vaccination to go. By then there will have been up to one billion people vaccinated, there will be 7 or 8 vaccines using different approaches, there will be hundreds of research datasets describing the use of the these. Any problems will be addressed and concerns can be alleviated if people look to this information and not nutters on Facebook. But if people wish to ignore science and be thran for their own reasons, then they must pay a price in terms of lack of access to public places inhabited by responsible people.

You realise what you are saying here?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 01:42:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2021, 01:32:51 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 12:07:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 23, 2021, 11:49:52 AM
Do the Wobblers, Rudis etc ever wonder why polio, diphtheria,  smallpox and other former prevalent diseases don't attack us any more?
Thankfully there was no Facebook when those vaccines started.
Hopefully we will see "No vaccination No entry" policy in vogue everywhere.

That is a dangerous path to trod.

It won't help anything, infact it will maybe undermine things more than you appreciate.

The figures are out, people know. 99.98% of people will get Covid and be fine.....to bring in something like that people will start going on the mad conspiracy tangents....it's not helpful to try and promote something like that - we need people to take it on of their own free will, when you force, there will be resistance.

There are restrictions on people all the time, naked people cannot go into supermarkets in most places.
I would expect restrictions on people who refuse to get vaccinated. They are free to make that choice if they stay away from other people, but they should not be allowed go on aeroplanes, work in health care environments or indeed enter GAA grounds.

This is not an imminent thing, there is still 6 months of vaccination to go. By then there will have been up to one billion people vaccinated, there will be 7 or 8 vaccines using different approaches, there will be hundreds of research datasets describing the use of the these. Any problems will be addressed and concerns can be alleviated if people look to this information and not nutters on Facebook. But if people wish to ignore science and be thran for their own reasons, then they must pay a price in terms of lack of access to public places inhabited by responsible people.

Would you describe people who want to force or demonise citizens who have genuine concerns over taking the vaccine as nutters? Or is that how you like to paint people that disagree with you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 23, 2021, 01:45:20 PM
Some people making decision that they fit and healthy, which is what they are now, today.

In real time, that could change tomorrow for any number of reasons and they could land in a vulnerable person category. I'd like to give myself a chance if that were to happen and already have a vaccine in place for myself.

You can't force people to take one but you'd like to think they make informed decisions rather than working off hearsay.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on February 23, 2021, 01:50:48 PM
Anyone.... what is your alternative if we don't get the necessary numbers vaccinated? What is the alternative? I don't want to hear that you're not a risk as I get that but in a wider sense if a large cohort don't get the vaccine then what is your solution for the pandemic?

For me it's a wee bit like the NI protocol argument. Unionists don't like it, I don't particularly like it if I'm honest but I haven't heard a viable alternative. So I get that people want freedom and a choice and they aren't at risk etc etc, but what is your alternative to bring an end to this pandemic?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 01:53:22 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 23, 2021, 01:45:20 PM
Some people making decision that they fit and healthy, which is what they are now, today.

In real time, that could change tomorrow for any number of reasons and they could land in a vulnerable person category. I'd like to give myself a chance if that were to happen and already have a vaccine in place for myself.

You can't force people to take one but you'd like to think they make informed decisions rather than working off hearsay.

Same people make a similar decision each winter about the flu jab. The elderly get it. Those with underlying health conditions get it. People who are susceptible to heavy flus get it. Most of us don't bother as we either haven't had a proper flu, or have had a proper flu so rarely, that the benefits to accrued are minimal.

As a species we are innately good at measuring risk.

——

Before some gobshite rounds on me for comparing flu with Covid, I am not. I am comparing the thought processes of people who seek inoculations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 01:56:52 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 01:25:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 12:54:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 23, 2021, 12:42:53 PM
We're rehashing a lot of old arguments around vaccines. But I will leave you with a couple of thoughts. Unless a large percentage of the population get vaccinated certainly greater than 70% we will never have normal. It'll be rolling maybe localised lockdowns as we deal with flare ups or even worse mutations. So what is your solution / alternative?
For those people who want a better society then nothing will improve your community more than you getting the vaccine. So you can complain about governments and their handling of this pandemic but to be offered this route out and then not take it is foolish. No government will stand for a health service being overstretched. BJ made it clear with English roadmap that the vaccination programme's success is key. If it starts to run out of steam then restrictions will continue.
Wobbler asked the question: "why would any young person get vaccinated?"

i) because Covid poses a threat to them, perhaps not a massive threat, but a threat nonetheless
ii) because Covid poses a greater threat to older people, and we all know and love or have loved older people, and they deserve a fair shot at living
iii) because we have to exist in society - and every person alive has an interest that society functions - and it cannot function with Covid running rampant

This is about basic societal solidarity, not horrible individualism

Therefore it is entirely appropriate that society puts measures in place which give advantages to those who are responsible and disadvantages those who are not

If your mother was in hospital, should she have the choice of being treated or attended to by somebody who has refused to be vaccinated

Should she have that information

What if she is not in a position to make that choice

To any reasonable person, the answer is yes, she should have that choice, or if she is not in a position to make that choice, her loved ones should

That is a real case of empowering society to make the best decisions

And if somebody who refuses to get vaccinated suffers from that, well, that's their choice, but they shouldn't expect there not to be consequences


"Societal solidarity"

"Empowering society"

"To any reasonable person"

Emotive language cannot mask the fact that the utopia you yearn for, demands that any citizen who refuses to succumb to your will, would be outcast. As societal policies go, the sheer black and white stance means it doesn't get much more divisive than that.

Out of curiosity - and this is a genuine question not a fishing attempt - is there a percentage of the population you have in mind, that must agree with your approach, before it can be considered the will of society? Would 50.1% be enough? Would 70% be enough to trod over the wishes of 30%? I'm assuming that the feelings of the great unwashed wouldn't be ignored.
So to you, the "reasonable" position is that Covid-positive medical staff should be allowed spread the virus to patients

That's your "utopia"

Figures
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:56:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 01:33:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:31:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 01:22:22 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 01:16:45 PM
To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.

Your fundamental point is incorrect.

The only verifiable upside of a vaccine is that it reduces severity of the virus. It does not reduce people cathcing it or transmitting it that has been proven yet. It does not stop the vaccine from mutating that been proven yet.

The whole premise of your argument is flawed.

For the likes of me, someone fit and healthy in the u40 category, there is no upside to the vaccine for me that would encourage me to take it? It's not going to save my life, all it might do is give me a rather milder dose of something that is not going to cause problems anyway. But yet there are a number of zealots here who demand people should not have free will to decide whether they want to get an injection or not and there are a lot of genuine grounds for people having reservations that people are ignoring. It's basically fascism that people are trying to force this vaccine on the general population.

I don't know if anyone will take that argument on with you Angelo. It's fair enough.

Look this is just going to be a life choice - You can't force people to have a vaccine, it's just immoral to suggest anyone take something they don't want to. That is the world, thankfully we live in.

I think we ran a poll here again recently and it was heavily in favour of those who would take the vaccine, but if you choose to not take the vaccine I would have no problem with you either. I'm 28, do I want to take the vaccine? Not particularly, will I take it if it gets me back to a decent life? Absolutely.

I do not agree with the forcing of the vaccine onto people via vaccine passports and this type of thing that is flying around. Surely there is a trade off to be made, if we have vaccinated the most vulnerable third of the population in Northern Ireland....isn't that what the aim was all along?

Will you wait till your children are old enough to make up their own decisions on the vaccines they should take at an early age?

You know that is not the same thing MTR2. It's an emotional viewpoint (and theoretical at this stage....!) so I can't give you an answer.

I'm not anti vaccination, I will take it surely. But I do not believe we should be allowed to force it onto others. It's not something I'll go to the grave arguing, but I don't feel we need to do this for something that statistically....you'll be be grand (if not 50+).

I realise that will upset those in the 50+ age bracket, but it's kind of a similar thing to hear if you are under and you know you'll be fine without a vaccination. We have locked down and put our lives on hold for whatever time it's been now to protect the vulnerable (and the NHS)....so now they are largely all sorted. Can we not go through the rest of the population who wants it....those that don't ?

You can't send them to the Gulags like Armaghniac proposes, that type of thinking can not and will not thankfully be taken seriously but are we suggesting we treat people who don't get vaccinated (for whatever reason) as outcasts? I mean that is ridiculous thinking, they might never get it in their lives anyway...



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on February 23, 2021, 01:58:29 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 01:53:22 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 23, 2021, 01:45:20 PM
Some people making decision that they fit and healthy, which is what they are now, today.

In real time, that could change tomorrow for any number of reasons and they could land in a vulnerable person category. I'd like to give myself a chance if that were to happen and already have a vaccine in place for myself.

You can't force people to take one but you'd like to think they make informed decisions rather than working off hearsay.

Same people make a similar decision each winter about the flu jab. The elderly get it. Those with underlying health conditions get it. People who are susceptible to heavy flus get it. Most of us don't bother as we either haven't had a proper flu, or have had a proper flu so rarely, that the benefits to accrued are minimal.

As a species we are innately good at measuring risk.

——

Before some gobshite rounds on me for comparing flu with Covid, I am not. I am comparing the thought processes of people who seek inoculations.

Yeah but there's definitely a higher level of risk with covid. You only need to look at the numbers that have been in hospitals in recent months (a lot of whom are u60) - it might not kill a younger person but it could take a lot out of them. Also given this particular strain of virus is new and more infectious than flu there is also a much greater chance of getting it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on February 23, 2021, 02:02:16 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 01:53:22 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 23, 2021, 01:45:20 PM
Some people making decision that they fit and healthy, which is what they are now, today.

In real time, that could change tomorrow for any number of reasons and they could land in a vulnerable person category. I'd like to give myself a chance if that were to happen and already have a vaccine in place for myself.

You can't force people to take one but you'd like to think they make informed decisions rather than working off hearsay.

Same people make a similar decision each winter about the flu jab. The elderly get it. Those with underlying health conditions get it. People who are susceptible to heavy flus get it. Most of us don't bother as we either haven't had a proper flu, or have had a proper flu so rarely, that the benefits to accrued are minimal.

As a species we are innately good at measuring risk.

——

Before some gobshite rounds on me for comparing flu with Covid, I am not. I am comparing the thought processes of people who seek inoculations.

Not only are you protecting yourself by getting the covid vaccine, you are protecting all your family, close friends, work colleagues and everyone you come into contact with. Also, if you're young, fit and healthy you might have an extremely low risk of death from covid but you still have a not insignificant risk of serious long term damage to your health or of getting long covid which is extremely debilitating. The vaccine will stop you having to worry about that happening to yourself or family.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on February 23, 2021, 02:02:40 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 01:53:22 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 23, 2021, 01:45:20 PM
Some people making decision that they fit and healthy, which is what they are now, today.

In real time, that could change tomorrow for any number of reasons and they could land in a vulnerable person category. I'd like to give myself a chance if that were to happen and already have a vaccine in place for myself.

You can't force people to take one but you'd like to think they make informed decisions rather than working off hearsay.

Same people make a similar decision each winter about the flu jab. The elderly get it. Those with underlying health conditions get it. People who are susceptible to heavy flus get it. Most of us don't bother as we either haven't had a proper flu, or have had a proper flu so rarely, that the benefits to accrued are minimal.

As a species we are innately good at measuring risk.

——

Before some gobshite rounds on me for comparing flu with Covid, I am not. I am comparing the thought processes of people who seek inoculations.

That approach won't work though because this is Coronavirus and not the flu. Remember the uproar back in Feb / Mar 2020 when the UK based their approach on a flu model and not Coronavirus? That's not a viable alternative.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 23, 2021, 02:18:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 01:53:22 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 23, 2021, 01:45:20 PM
Some people making decision that they fit and healthy, which is what they are now, today.

In real time, that could change tomorrow for any number of reasons and they could land in a vulnerable person category. I'd like to give myself a chance if that were to happen and already have a vaccine in place for myself.

You can't force people to take one but you'd like to think they make informed decisions rather than working off hearsay.

Same people make a similar decision each winter about the flu jab. The elderly get it. Those with underlying health conditions get it. People who are susceptible to heavy flus get it. Most of us don't bother as we either haven't had a proper flu, or have had a proper flu so rarely, that the benefits to accrued are minimal.

As a species we are innately good at measuring risk.

——

Before some gobshite rounds on me for comparing flu with Covid, I am not. I am comparing the thought processes of people who seek inoculations.

I can see the reasoning behind your point but the fact you've to add a disclaimer to the post about not comparing it to the flu says a lot about the thought process out there.

People do still think of it "as just a bad flu" - commonly mentioned from early on. That sentiment alone should resonate a lot to people. A bad flu isn't good at all and most people have never truly had it, myself included but have seen people with it and it's not easy. In a Flu season we rarely see it in scale we have with covid - January been a real eye opener for me as to how quickly it caught hold from what was a limited window to spread in December. The age profile of those admitted to ICU wasn't high.

Also worth looking at impact of long covid and the future impacts it will have. Re-infection as well another major unknown at this stage.

The argument of the vaccine affects are one thing but so too are the impact of the above regardless of now mild the virus impacted someone in the present time.

Lot of unknowns still in play.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 02:20:06 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:56:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 01:33:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:31:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 01:22:22 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 01:16:45 PM
To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.

Your fundamental point is incorrect.

The only verifiable upside of a vaccine is that it reduces severity of the virus. It does not reduce people cathcing it or transmitting it that has been proven yet. It does not stop the vaccine from mutating that been proven yet.

The whole premise of your argument is flawed.

For the likes of me, someone fit and healthy in the u40 category, there is no upside to the vaccine for me that would encourage me to take it? It's not going to save my life, all it might do is give me a rather milder dose of something that is not going to cause problems anyway. But yet there are a number of zealots here who demand people should not have free will to decide whether they want to get an injection or not and there are a lot of genuine grounds for people having reservations that people are ignoring. It's basically fascism that people are trying to force this vaccine on the general population.

I don't know if anyone will take that argument on with you Angelo. It's fair enough.

Look this is just going to be a life choice - You can't force people to have a vaccine, it's just immoral to suggest anyone take something they don't want to. That is the world, thankfully we live in.

I think we ran a poll here again recently and it was heavily in favour of those who would take the vaccine, but if you choose to not take the vaccine I would have no problem with you either. I'm 28, do I want to take the vaccine? Not particularly, will I take it if it gets me back to a decent life? Absolutely.

I do not agree with the forcing of the vaccine onto people via vaccine passports and this type of thing that is flying around. Surely there is a trade off to be made, if we have vaccinated the most vulnerable third of the population in Northern Ireland....isn't that what the aim was all along?

Will you wait till your children are old enough to make up their own decisions on the vaccines they should take at an early age?

You know that is not the same thing MTR2. It's an emotional viewpoint (and theoretical at this stage....!) so I can't give you an answer.

I'm not anti vaccination, I will take it surely. But I do not believe we should be allowed to force it onto others. It's not something I'll go to the grave arguing, but I don't feel we need to do this for something that statistically....you'll be be grand (if not 50+).

I realise that will upset those in the 50+ age bracket, but it's kind of a similar thing to hear if you are under and you know you'll be fine without a vaccination. We have locked down and put our lives on hold for whatever time it's been now to protect the vulnerable (and the NHS)....so now they are largely all sorted. Can we not go through the rest of the population who wants it....those that don't ?

You can't send them to the Gulags like Armaghniac proposes, that type of thinking can not and will not thankfully be taken seriously but are we suggesting we treat people who don't get vaccinated (for whatever reason) as outcasts? I mean that is ridiculous thinking, they might never get it in their lives anyway...
Nobody has argued that you should be physically forced to take a vaccine

What they are arguing is that society is entitled to take measures that advantage people who do get vaccinated and disadvantage people who do not

This is an argument between two competing visions of freedom

The vision of freedom where people are entitled to not have an unreasonable degree of risk thrust upon them against their will versus the vision of freedom where people are entitled to inflict an unreasonable degree of risk on others

It is essentially similar to the argument between climate crisis realists and climate crisis deniers

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 02:23:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 02:20:06 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:56:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 01:33:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:31:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 01:22:22 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 01:16:45 PM
To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.

Your fundamental point is incorrect.

The only verifiable upside of a vaccine is that it reduces severity of the virus. It does not reduce people cathcing it or transmitting it that has been proven yet. It does not stop the vaccine from mutating that been proven yet.

The whole premise of your argument is flawed.

For the likes of me, someone fit and healthy in the u40 category, there is no upside to the vaccine for me that would encourage me to take it? It's not going to save my life, all it might do is give me a rather milder dose of something that is not going to cause problems anyway. But yet there are a number of zealots here who demand people should not have free will to decide whether they want to get an injection or not and there are a lot of genuine grounds for people having reservations that people are ignoring. It's basically fascism that people are trying to force this vaccine on the general population.

I don't know if anyone will take that argument on with you Angelo. It's fair enough.

Look this is just going to be a life choice - You can't force people to have a vaccine, it's just immoral to suggest anyone take something they don't want to. That is the world, thankfully we live in.

I think we ran a poll here again recently and it was heavily in favour of those who would take the vaccine, but if you choose to not take the vaccine I would have no problem with you either. I'm 28, do I want to take the vaccine? Not particularly, will I take it if it gets me back to a decent life? Absolutely.

I do not agree with the forcing of the vaccine onto people via vaccine passports and this type of thing that is flying around. Surely there is a trade off to be made, if we have vaccinated the most vulnerable third of the population in Northern Ireland....isn't that what the aim was all along?

Will you wait till your children are old enough to make up their own decisions on the vaccines they should take at an early age?

You know that is not the same thing MTR2. It's an emotional viewpoint (and theoretical at this stage....!) so I can't give you an answer.

I'm not anti vaccination, I will take it surely. But I do not believe we should be allowed to force it onto others. It's not something I'll go to the grave arguing, but I don't feel we need to do this for something that statistically....you'll be be grand (if not 50+).

I realise that will upset those in the 50+ age bracket, but it's kind of a similar thing to hear if you are under and you know you'll be fine without a vaccination. We have locked down and put our lives on hold for whatever time it's been now to protect the vulnerable (and the NHS)....so now they are largely all sorted. Can we not go through the rest of the population who wants it....those that don't ?

You can't send them to the Gulags like Armaghniac proposes, that type of thinking can not and will not thankfully be taken seriously but are we suggesting we treat people who don't get vaccinated (for whatever reason) as outcasts? I mean that is ridiculous thinking, they might never get it in their lives anyway...
Nobody has argued that you should be physically forced to take a vaccine

What they are arguing is that society is entitled to take measures that advantage people who do get vaccinated and disadvantage people who do not

This is an argument between two competing visions of freedom

The vision of freedom where people are entitled to not have an unreasonable degree of risk thrust upon them against their will versus the vision of freedom where people are entitled to inflict an unreasonable degree of risk on others

It is essentially similar to the argument between climate crisis realists and climate crisis deniers

No argument with you Sid on this really, but I will ask, is this not akin to the argument at the start of this thread (how long ago that feels now...) why didn't we "lock up" (protect) the elderly and the vulnerable vs letting the healthy younger population go ahead?

I do think certain members of the board however refer to this as full on no choice, physical vaccination BTW.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 02:32:32 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 02:23:45 PM

No argument with you Sid on this really, but I will ask, is this not akin to the argument at the start of this thread (how long ago that feels now...) why didn't we "lock up" (protect) the elderly and the vulnerable vs letting the healthy younger population go ahead?

I do think certain members of the board however refer to this as full on no choice, physical vaccination BTW.
There was a clear winner of the lockdown/stringent public health measures v let it rip/laissez-faire argument

That argument was settled once and for all at Christmas

Younger people do not exist on a private island - they exist in society

We all have to share a planet - the American "libertarian" version of freedom, which is what the ideology that says there should be no consequences for refusing to be vaccinated is - is the road to destruction, to a Lord of The Flies version of humanity
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 23, 2021, 02:55:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 02:20:06 PM
Nobody has argued that you should be physically forced to take a vaccine

What they are arguing is that society is entitled to take measures that advantage people who do get vaccinated and disadvantage people who do not


And for the avoidance of doubt, I am not proposing that people who do not take the vaccine be disadvantaged for the craic, I am proposing that they continue to subject to the type of restrictions that we are all subject to at the present time. We free ourselves from the restrictions by getting vaccinated.

And in relation to travel, requirements for vaccination have existed for years. Smallpox vaccinations were universally required for travel back in the day and currently there are various requirements for Yellow Fever etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on February 23, 2021, 02:59:05 PM
I'd be 100% alright with people who haven't had the vaccine living under restriction... no travel/work from home/click and collect with no entry into shops.

That would soon increase uptake and it's what the Govt should do!

Similar to smoking... yeah you can smoke but you do it out there where it can't negatively affect the rest of us!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 23, 2021, 03:04:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on February 23, 2021, 02:59:05 PM
I'd be 100% alright with people who haven't had the vaccine living under restriction... no travel/work from home/click and collect with no entry into shops.

That would soon increase uptake and it's what the Govt should do!

Similar to smoking... yeah you can smoke but you do it out there where it can't negatively affect the rest of us!

There were people arguing that that they had a God given right to smoke over other people's food and drink.  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on February 23, 2021, 03:11:05 PM
I agree there should be limits put on people who refuse to get vaccinated. But an Education programme is a better first step. If people can understand that A) we all need to be vaccinated in order for it to be effective and not just the vulnerable and B) that it is safe then hopefully that should win over a lot of people.

At this moment in time you can only travel to lots of countries if you have had a negative test in the 72 hours previous including Ireland. So there is no real jump from that to saying you can only come if you have had your vaccination. And anyways that's the case for lots of countries around the world already you need certain vaccinations so it isn't new.
But initially I'd be up for education as a first step and try to encourage as many people to get it voluntarily.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 03:15:24 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:56:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 01:33:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:31:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 01:22:22 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 01:16:45 PM
To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.

Your fundamental point is incorrect.

The only verifiable upside of a vaccine is that it reduces severity of the virus. It does not reduce people cathcing it or transmitting it that has been proven yet. It does not stop the vaccine from mutating that been proven yet.

The whole premise of your argument is flawed.

For the likes of me, someone fit and healthy in the u40 category, there is no upside to the vaccine for me that would encourage me to take it? It's not going to save my life, all it might do is give me a rather milder dose of something that is not going to cause problems anyway. But yet there are a number of zealots here who demand people should not have free will to decide whether they want to get an injection or not and there are a lot of genuine grounds for people having reservations that people are ignoring. It's basically fascism that people are trying to force this vaccine on the general population.

I don't know if anyone will take that argument on with you Angelo. It's fair enough.

Look this is just going to be a life choice - You can't force people to have a vaccine, it's just immoral to suggest anyone take something they don't want to. That is the world, thankfully we live in.

I think we ran a poll here again recently and it was heavily in favour of those who would take the vaccine, but if you choose to not take the vaccine I would have no problem with you either. I'm 28, do I want to take the vaccine? Not particularly, will I take it if it gets me back to a decent life? Absolutely.

I do not agree with the forcing of the vaccine onto people via vaccine passports and this type of thing that is flying around. Surely there is a trade off to be made, if we have vaccinated the most vulnerable third of the population in Northern Ireland....isn't that what the aim was all along?

Will you wait till your children are old enough to make up their own decisions on the vaccines they should take at an early age?

You know that is not the same thing MTR2. It's an emotional viewpoint (and theoretical at this stage....!) so I can't give you an answer.

I'm not anti vaccination, I will take it surely. But I do not believe we should be allowed to force it onto others. It's not something I'll go to the grave arguing, but I don't feel we need to do this for something that statistically....you'll be be grand (if not 50+).

I realise that will upset those in the 50+ age bracket, but it's kind of a similar thing to hear if you are under and you know you'll be fine without a vaccination. We have locked down and put our lives on hold for whatever time it's been now to protect the vulnerable (and the NHS)....so now they are largely all sorted. Can we not go through the rest of the population who wants it....those that don't ?

You can't send them to the Gulags like Armaghniac proposes, that type of thinking can not and will not thankfully be taken seriously but are we suggesting we treat people who don't get vaccinated (for whatever reason) as outcasts? I mean that is ridiculous thinking, they might never get it in their lives anyway...

You are a reasonable poster GOTB - perhaps you will answer.

Knowing that the uptake of the vaccination is key in getting lockdowns removed - if you give people the option (and support their right) to refuse the vaccine with no repercussions what is your alternative for us to get out of this shit show?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on February 23, 2021, 03:28:24 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 03:15:24 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:56:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 01:33:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:31:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 01:22:22 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 01:16:45 PM
To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.

Your fundamental point is incorrect.

The only verifiable upside of a vaccine is that it reduces severity of the virus. It does not reduce people cathcing it or transmitting it that has been proven yet. It does not stop the vaccine from mutating that been proven yet.

The whole premise of your argument is flawed.

For the likes of me, someone fit and healthy in the u40 category, there is no upside to the vaccine for me that would encourage me to take it? It's not going to save my life, all it might do is give me a rather milder dose of something that is not going to cause problems anyway. But yet there are a number of zealots here who demand people should not have free will to decide whether they want to get an injection or not and there are a lot of genuine grounds for people having reservations that people are ignoring. It's basically fascism that people are trying to force this vaccine on the general population.

I don't know if anyone will take that argument on with you Angelo. It's fair enough.

Look this is just going to be a life choice - You can't force people to have a vaccine, it's just immoral to suggest anyone take something they don't want to. That is the world, thankfully we live in.

I think we ran a poll here again recently and it was heavily in favour of those who would take the vaccine, but if you choose to not take the vaccine I would have no problem with you either. I'm 28, do I want to take the vaccine? Not particularly, will I take it if it gets me back to a decent life? Absolutely.

I do not agree with the forcing of the vaccine onto people via vaccine passports and this type of thing that is flying around. Surely there is a trade off to be made, if we have vaccinated the most vulnerable third of the population in Northern Ireland....isn't that what the aim was all along?

Will you wait till your children are old enough to make up their own decisions on the vaccines they should take at an early age?

You know that is not the same thing MTR2. It's an emotional viewpoint (and theoretical at this stage....!) so I can't give you an answer.

I'm not anti vaccination, I will take it surely. But I do not believe we should be allowed to force it onto others. It's not something I'll go to the grave arguing, but I don't feel we need to do this for something that statistically....you'll be be grand (if not 50+).

I realise that will upset those in the 50+ age bracket, but it's kind of a similar thing to hear if you are under and you know you'll be fine without a vaccination. We have locked down and put our lives on hold for whatever time it's been now to protect the vulnerable (and the NHS)....so now they are largely all sorted. Can we not go through the rest of the population who wants it....those that don't ?

You can't send them to the Gulags like Armaghniac proposes, that type of thinking can not and will not thankfully be taken seriously but are we suggesting we treat people who don't get vaccinated (for whatever reason) as outcasts? I mean that is ridiculous thinking, they might never get it in their lives anyway...

You are a reasonable poster GOTB - perhaps you will answer.

Knowing that the uptake of the vaccination is key in getting lockdowns removed - if you give people the option (and support their right) to refuse the vaccine with no repercussions what is your alternative for us to get out of this shit show?

Fundamental question for me as well. No one has an alternative.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on February 23, 2021, 03:49:16 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 23, 2021, 03:28:24 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 03:15:24 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:56:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 01:33:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:31:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 01:22:22 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 01:16:45 PM
To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.

Your fundamental point is incorrect.

The only verifiable upside of a vaccine is that it reduces severity of the virus. It does not reduce people cathcing it or transmitting it that has been proven yet. It does not stop the vaccine from mutating that been proven yet.

The whole premise of your argument is flawed.

For the likes of me, someone fit and healthy in the u40 category, there is no upside to the vaccine for me that would encourage me to take it? It's not going to save my life, all it might do is give me a rather milder dose of something that is not going to cause problems anyway. But yet there are a number of zealots here who demand people should not have free will to decide whether they want to get an injection or not and there are a lot of genuine grounds for people having reservations that people are ignoring. It's basically fascism that people are trying to force this vaccine on the general population.

I don't know if anyone will take that argument on with you Angelo. It's fair enough.

Look this is just going to be a life choice - You can't force people to have a vaccine, it's just immoral to suggest anyone take something they don't want to. That is the world, thankfully we live in.

I think we ran a poll here again recently and it was heavily in favour of those who would take the vaccine, but if you choose to not take the vaccine I would have no problem with you either. I'm 28, do I want to take the vaccine? Not particularly, will I take it if it gets me back to a decent life? Absolutely.

I do not agree with the forcing of the vaccine onto people via vaccine passports and this type of thing that is flying around. Surely there is a trade off to be made, if we have vaccinated the most vulnerable third of the population in Northern Ireland....isn't that what the aim was all along?

Will you wait till your children are old enough to make up their own decisions on the vaccines they should take at an early age?

You know that is not the same thing MTR2. It's an emotional viewpoint (and theoretical at this stage....!) so I can't give you an answer.

I'm not anti vaccination, I will take it surely. But I do not believe we should be allowed to force it onto others. It's not something I'll go to the grave arguing, but I don't feel we need to do this for something that statistically....you'll be be grand (if not 50+).

I realise that will upset those in the 50+ age bracket, but it's kind of a similar thing to hear if you are under and you know you'll be fine without a vaccination. We have locked down and put our lives on hold for whatever time it's been now to protect the vulnerable (and the NHS)....so now they are largely all sorted. Can we not go through the rest of the population who wants it....those that don't ?

You can't send them to the Gulags like Armaghniac proposes, that type of thinking can not and will not thankfully be taken seriously but are we suggesting we treat people who don't get vaccinated (for whatever reason) as outcasts? I mean that is ridiculous thinking, they might never get it in their lives anyway...

You are a reasonable poster GOTB - perhaps you will answer.

Knowing that the uptake of the vaccination is key in getting lockdowns removed - if you give people the option (and support their right) to refuse the vaccine with no repercussions what is your alternative for us to get out of this shit show?

Fundamental question for me as well. No one has an alternative.

The vaccine looks like the best option. The benefits of Vitamin D, something mentioned much earlier in the debate appear to help in the fight against Covid. Doesn't seem to be pushed by the WHO or Governments as of yet.

One of the key issues is the number of strains & mutations of the virus & if the current vaccines can account for all these variations. Getting an annual Covid Jab would be a difficult task for the developed world to under take let alone the undeveloped.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 04:01:31 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on February 23, 2021, 01:58:29 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 01:53:22 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 23, 2021, 01:45:20 PM
Some people making decision that they fit and healthy, which is what they are now, today.

In real time, that could change tomorrow for any number of reasons and they could land in a vulnerable person category. I'd like to give myself a chance if that were to happen and already have a vaccine in place for myself.

You can't force people to take one but you'd like to think they make informed decisions rather than working off hearsay.

Same people make a similar decision each winter about the flu jab. The elderly get it. Those with underlying health conditions get it. People who are susceptible to heavy flus get it. Most of us don't bother as we either haven't had a proper flu, or have had a proper flu so rarely, that the benefits to accrued are minimal.

As a species we are innately good at measuring risk.

——

Before some gobshite rounds on me for comparing flu with Covid, I am not. I am comparing the thought processes of people who seek inoculations.

Yeah but there's definitely a higher level of risk with covid. You only need to look at the numbers that have been in hospitals in recent months (a lot of whom are u60) - it might not kill a younger person but it could take a lot out of them. Also given this particular strain of virus is new and more infectious than flu there is also a much greater chance of getting it.

I would say there is a good chance flu is every bit as dangerous if not more dangerous to u40s than Covid is. We have had 6 deaths in that age bracket in around 60k positive cases in the past 12 months.

For the elderly and vulnerable it probably is more dangerous than flu at present but when you look at a bad winter flu season in 17/18 then that is not clear either.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 04:02:58 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 23, 2021, 02:18:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 01:53:22 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 23, 2021, 01:45:20 PM
Some people making decision that they fit and healthy, which is what they are now, today.

In real time, that could change tomorrow for any number of reasons and they could land in a vulnerable person category. I'd like to give myself a chance if that were to happen and already have a vaccine in place for myself.

You can't force people to take one but you'd like to think they make informed decisions rather than working off hearsay.

Same people make a similar decision each winter about the flu jab. The elderly get it. Those with underlying health conditions get it. People who are susceptible to heavy flus get it. Most of us don't bother as we either haven't had a proper flu, or have had a proper flu so rarely, that the benefits to accrued are minimal.

As a species we are innately good at measuring risk.

——

Before some gobshite rounds on me for comparing flu with Covid, I am not. I am comparing the thought processes of people who seek inoculations.

I can see the reasoning behind your point but the fact you've to add a disclaimer to the post about not comparing it to the flu says a lot about the thought process out there.

People do still think of it "as just a bad flu" - commonly mentioned from early on. That sentiment alone should resonate a lot to people. A bad flu isn't good at all and most people have never truly had it, myself included but have seen people with it and it's not easy. In a Flu season we rarely see it in scale we have with covid - January been a real eye opener for me as to how quickly it caught hold from what was a limited window to spread in December. The age profile of those admitted to ICU wasn't high.

Also worth looking at impact of long covid and the future impacts it will have. Re-infection as well another major unknown at this stage.

The argument of the vaccine affects are one thing but so too are the impact of the above regardless of now mild the virus impacted someone in the present time.

Lot of unknowns still in play.

A "bad flu" season in 17/18 saw more deaths in the month of January 2018 than we have had in any month since Covid came on this island.

I think you play down the seriousness of a bad flu.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 04:04:01 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 23, 2021, 02:02:16 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 01:53:22 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 23, 2021, 01:45:20 PM
Some people making decision that they fit and healthy, which is what they are now, today.

In real time, that could change tomorrow for any number of reasons and they could land in a vulnerable person category. I'd like to give myself a chance if that were to happen and already have a vaccine in place for myself.

You can't force people to take one but you'd like to think they make informed decisions rather than working off hearsay.

Same people make a similar decision each winter about the flu jab. The elderly get it. Those with underlying health conditions get it. People who are susceptible to heavy flus get it. Most of us don't bother as we either haven't had a proper flu, or have had a proper flu so rarely, that the benefits to accrued are minimal.

As a species we are innately good at measuring risk.

——

Before some gobshite rounds on me for comparing flu with Covid, I am not. I am comparing the thought processes of people who seek inoculations.

Not only are you protecting yourself by getting the covid vaccine, you are protecting all your family, close friends, work colleagues and everyone you come into contact with. Also, if you're young, fit and healthy you might have an extremely low risk of death from covid but you still have a not insignificant risk of serious long term damage to your health or of getting long covid which is extremely debilitating. The vaccine will stop you having to worry about that happening to yourself or family.

This is just sheer nonsense, ignorance and misinformation.

What data have you to support that vaccines stop you contracting and transmitting the virus.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 04:05:19 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 03:15:24 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:56:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 01:33:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:31:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 01:22:22 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 01:16:45 PM
To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.

Your fundamental point is incorrect.

The only verifiable upside of a vaccine is that it reduces severity of the virus. It does not reduce people cathcing it or transmitting it that has been proven yet. It does not stop the vaccine from mutating that been proven yet.

The whole premise of your argument is flawed.

For the likes of me, someone fit and healthy in the u40 category, there is no upside to the vaccine for me that would encourage me to take it? It's not going to save my life, all it might do is give me a rather milder dose of something that is not going to cause problems anyway. But yet there are a number of zealots here who demand people should not have free will to decide whether they want to get an injection or not and there are a lot of genuine grounds for people having reservations that people are ignoring. It's basically fascism that people are trying to force this vaccine on the general population.

I don't know if anyone will take that argument on with you Angelo. It's fair enough.

Look this is just going to be a life choice - You can't force people to have a vaccine, it's just immoral to suggest anyone take something they don't want to. That is the world, thankfully we live in.

I think we ran a poll here again recently and it was heavily in favour of those who would take the vaccine, but if you choose to not take the vaccine I would have no problem with you either. I'm 28, do I want to take the vaccine? Not particularly, will I take it if it gets me back to a decent life? Absolutely.

I do not agree with the forcing of the vaccine onto people via vaccine passports and this type of thing that is flying around. Surely there is a trade off to be made, if we have vaccinated the most vulnerable third of the population in Northern Ireland....isn't that what the aim was all along?

Will you wait till your children are old enough to make up their own decisions on the vaccines they should take at an early age?

You know that is not the same thing MTR2. It's an emotional viewpoint (and theoretical at this stage....!) so I can't give you an answer.

I'm not anti vaccination, I will take it surely. But I do not believe we should be allowed to force it onto others. It's not something I'll go to the grave arguing, but I don't feel we need to do this for something that statistically....you'll be be grand (if not 50+).

I realise that will upset those in the 50+ age bracket, but it's kind of a similar thing to hear if you are under and you know you'll be fine without a vaccination. We have locked down and put our lives on hold for whatever time it's been now to protect the vulnerable (and the NHS)....so now they are largely all sorted. Can we not go through the rest of the population who wants it....those that don't ?

You can't send them to the Gulags like Armaghniac proposes, that type of thinking can not and will not thankfully be taken seriously but are we suggesting we treat people who don't get vaccinated (for whatever reason) as outcasts? I mean that is ridiculous thinking, they might never get it in their lives anyway...

You are a reasonable poster GOTB - perhaps you will answer.

Knowing that the uptake of the vaccination is key in getting lockdowns removed - if you give people the option (and support their right) to refuse the vaccine with no repercussions what is your alternative for us to get out of this shit show?

I think we are looking at something akin to Matt Hancocks recent quip about it being something similar to the winter flu we'll have to deal with going forward.

Obviously I don't have all the answers, I don't think anyone does but it's an ever changing picture I suppose too.

I am going to take the vaccine, I would encourage others to take the vaccine, I would hope others in time will ease their fears on the vaccine and join in. It would be great. But right now, people are angry, they want to bite back against the Govt, maybe this type of thing is their way of doing so?

But we can't make people take it lads. You know that yourself. It's like the talk at the start of this thread about closing the airports....should it be done? Probably....Will it be done, no. As trailer said, education should be a big factor here - maybe in time to come things will ease their thoughts but you simply cannot make people take something they don't want to. It's not even a go. We do not live in that type of world, especially when people know they (majorly) will be ok from Covid (again, under 50 ish).

Addressing what the alternative point is, in the North we are not far off 500k of a 1.8mil population vaccinated and that is the 500k of the most needing and vulnerable. I don't think we need an alternative? Is this not really good news? We are going the right way. What is herd immunity, 70%? Shouldn't we get that without the need for "force"? Let the people come round in time, people are afraid - forcing the vaccine on them will not help that, nor will exiling them from life - the argument could be made legally, well we aren't going to be effected by Covid (statistically), why should we take the vaccine? Who wants to preside over that mess?

Personally I am as upbeat as I've been in a number of months regarding the situation, again, I'm thinking locally here really, foreign holidays I've accepted are out for this next year or so....maybe towards the end of the year possibly if all goes well. I think we are well on the way lads, some people just need more time to get used to the reality of the situation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 04:10:18 PM
The problem is people like Lenny, who don't know their arse from their elbow, spreading lies about what this vaccine achieves.

There is no proof to date that this vaccine stops infection and stops transmission. The upside is that the vaccines at best reduces the chance of you getting a severe dose of the illness or dying. So posters who are pedaling out this myth really need to be called out.

The bottom line is that if you are u40 and fit and healthy then this virus is not a threat to you, or a minimal one - the data shows this true.

So the only upside for a person like me, it will give me a milder form of infection. I'd have concerns about how rushed through the whole vaccine process is, vaccinate the at risk categories and whoever else feels free to want to get one and let's get on with things.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 04:17:30 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 04:05:19 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 03:15:24 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:56:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 01:33:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:31:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 01:22:22 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 01:16:45 PM
To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.

Your fundamental point is incorrect.

The only verifiable upside of a vaccine is that it reduces severity of the virus. It does not reduce people cathcing it or transmitting it that has been proven yet. It does not stop the vaccine from mutating that been proven yet.

The whole premise of your argument is flawed.

For the likes of me, someone fit and healthy in the u40 category, there is no upside to the vaccine for me that would encourage me to take it? It's not going to save my life, all it might do is give me a rather milder dose of something that is not going to cause problems anyway. But yet there are a number of zealots here who demand people should not have free will to decide whether they want to get an injection or not and there are a lot of genuine grounds for people having reservations that people are ignoring. It's basically fascism that people are trying to force this vaccine on the general population.

I don't know if anyone will take that argument on with you Angelo. It's fair enough.

Look this is just going to be a life choice - You can't force people to have a vaccine, it's just immoral to suggest anyone take something they don't want to. That is the world, thankfully we live in.

I think we ran a poll here again recently and it was heavily in favour of those who would take the vaccine, but if you choose to not take the vaccine I would have no problem with you either. I'm 28, do I want to take the vaccine? Not particularly, will I take it if it gets me back to a decent life? Absolutely.

I do not agree with the forcing of the vaccine onto people via vaccine passports and this type of thing that is flying around. Surely there is a trade off to be made, if we have vaccinated the most vulnerable third of the population in Northern Ireland....isn't that what the aim was all along?

Will you wait till your children are old enough to make up their own decisions on the vaccines they should take at an early age?

You know that is not the same thing MTR2. It's an emotional viewpoint (and theoretical at this stage....!) so I can't give you an answer.

I'm not anti vaccination, I will take it surely. But I do not believe we should be allowed to force it onto others. It's not something I'll go to the grave arguing, but I don't feel we need to do this for something that statistically....you'll be be grand (if not 50+).

I realise that will upset those in the 50+ age bracket, but it's kind of a similar thing to hear if you are under and you know you'll be fine without a vaccination. We have locked down and put our lives on hold for whatever time it's been now to protect the vulnerable (and the NHS)....so now they are largely all sorted. Can we not go through the rest of the population who wants it....those that don't ?

You can't send them to the Gulags like Armaghniac proposes, that type of thinking can not and will not thankfully be taken seriously but are we suggesting we treat people who don't get vaccinated (for whatever reason) as outcasts? I mean that is ridiculous thinking, they might never get it in their lives anyway...

You are a reasonable poster GOTB - perhaps you will answer.

Knowing that the uptake of the vaccination is key in getting lockdowns removed - if you give people the option (and support their right) to refuse the vaccine with no repercussions what is your alternative for us to get out of this shit show?

I think we are looking at something akin to Matt Hancocks recent quip about it being something similar to the winter flu we'll have to deal with going forward.

Obviously I don't have all the answers, I don't think anyone does but it's an ever changing picture I suppose too.

I am going to take the vaccine, I would encourage others to take the vaccine, I would hope others in time will ease their fears on the vaccine and join in. It would be great. But right now, people are angry, they want to bite back against the Govt, maybe this type of thing is their way of doing so?

But we can't make people take it lads. You know that yourself. It's like the talk at the start of this thread about closing the airports....should it be done? Probably....Will it be done, no. As trailer said, education should be a big factor here - maybe in time to come things will ease their thoughts but you simply cannot make people take something they don't want to. It's not even a go. We do not live in that type of world, especially when people know they (majorly) will be ok from Covid (again, under 50 ish).

Addressing what the alternative point is, in the North we are not far off 500k of a 1.8mil population vaccinated and that is the 500k of the most needing and vulnerable. I don't think we need an alternative? Is this not really good news? We are going the right way. What is herd immunity, 70%? Shouldn't we get that without the need for "force"? Let the people come round in time, people are afraid - forcing the vaccine on them will not help that, nor will exiling them from life - the argument could be made legally, well we aren't going to be effected by Covid (statistically), why should we take the vaccine? Who wants to preside over that mess?

Personally I am as upbeat as I've been in a number of months regarding the situation, again, I'm thinking locally here really, foreign holidays I've accepted are out for this next year or so....maybe towards the end of the year possibly if all goes well. I think we are well on the way lads, some people just need more time to get used to the reality of the situation.

Fair points made in a reasoned way GOTB.

However, we do know that if 'x' % of the population dont get the vaccine then we wont be opened up and we face further lockdowns.

If (for example) 60% take it and the other 40% dont then the likelihood we face is more rolling lockdowns - is that the way you want to go forward - because like it or lump it that is what will happen.

So should we suffer because some people refuse the vaccine (for no apparent reason other than the 'It wont impact me' or 'Karen from Facebook said so')
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 04:18:29 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 04:05:19 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 03:15:24 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:56:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 01:33:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on February 23, 2021, 01:31:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 01:22:22 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 01:16:45 PM
To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.

Your fundamental point is incorrect.

The only verifiable upside of a vaccine is that it reduces severity of the virus. It does not reduce people cathcing it or transmitting it that has been proven yet. It does not stop the vaccine from mutating that been proven yet.

The whole premise of your argument is flawed.

For the likes of me, someone fit and healthy in the u40 category, there is no upside to the vaccine for me that would encourage me to take it? It's not going to save my life, all it might do is give me a rather milder dose of something that is not going to cause problems anyway. But yet there are a number of zealots here who demand people should not have free will to decide whether they want to get an injection or not and there are a lot of genuine grounds for people having reservations that people are ignoring. It's basically fascism that people are trying to force this vaccine on the general population.

I don't know if anyone will take that argument on with you Angelo. It's fair enough.

Look this is just going to be a life choice - You can't force people to have a vaccine, it's just immoral to suggest anyone take something they don't want to. That is the world, thankfully we live in.

I think we ran a poll here again recently and it was heavily in favour of those who would take the vaccine, but if you choose to not take the vaccine I would have no problem with you either. I'm 28, do I want to take the vaccine? Not particularly, will I take it if it gets me back to a decent life? Absolutely.

I do not agree with the forcing of the vaccine onto people via vaccine passports and this type of thing that is flying around. Surely there is a trade off to be made, if we have vaccinated the most vulnerable third of the population in Northern Ireland....isn't that what the aim was all along?

Will you wait till your children are old enough to make up their own decisions on the vaccines they should take at an early age?

You know that is not the same thing MTR2. It's an emotional viewpoint (and theoretical at this stage....!) so I can't give you an answer.

I'm not anti vaccination, I will take it surely. But I do not believe we should be allowed to force it onto others. It's not something I'll go to the grave arguing, but I don't feel we need to do this for something that statistically....you'll be be grand (if not 50+).

I realise that will upset those in the 50+ age bracket, but it's kind of a similar thing to hear if you are under and you know you'll be fine without a vaccination. We have locked down and put our lives on hold for whatever time it's been now to protect the vulnerable (and the NHS)....so now they are largely all sorted. Can we not go through the rest of the population who wants it....those that don't ?

You can't send them to the Gulags like Armaghniac proposes, that type of thinking can not and will not thankfully be taken seriously but are we suggesting we treat people who don't get vaccinated (for whatever reason) as outcasts? I mean that is ridiculous thinking, they might never get it in their lives anyway...

You are a reasonable poster GOTB - perhaps you will answer.

Knowing that the uptake of the vaccination is key in getting lockdowns removed - if you give people the option (and support their right) to refuse the vaccine with no repercussions what is your alternative for us to get out of this shit show?

I think we are looking at something akin to Matt Hancocks recent quip about it being something similar to the winter flu we'll have to deal with going forward.

Obviously I don't have all the answers, I don't think anyone does but it's an ever changing picture I suppose too.

I am going to take the vaccine, I would encourage others to take the vaccine, I would hope others in time will ease their fears on the vaccine and join in. It would be great. But right now, people are angry, they want to bite back against the Govt, maybe this type of thing is their way of doing so?

But we can't make people take it lads. You know that yourself. It's like the talk at the start of this thread about closing the airports....should it be done? Probably....Will it be done, no. As trailer said, education should be a big factor here - maybe in time to come things will ease their thoughts but you simply cannot make people take something they don't want to. It's not even a go. We do not live in that type of world, especially when people know they (majorly) will be ok from Covid (again, under 50 ish).

Addressing what the alternative point is, in the North we are not far off 500k of a 1.8mil population vaccinated and that is the 500k of the most needing and vulnerable. I don't think we need an alternative? Is this not really good news? We are going the right way. What is herd immunity, 70%? Shouldn't we get that without the need for "force"? Let the people come round in time, people are afraid - forcing the vaccine on them will not help that, nor will exiling them from life - the argument could be made legally, well we aren't going to be effected by Covid (statistically), why should we take the vaccine? Who wants to preside over that mess?

Personally I am as upbeat as I've been in a number of months regarding the situation, again, I'm thinking locally here really, foreign holidays I've accepted are out for this next year or so....maybe towards the end of the year possibly if all goes well. I think we are well on the way lads, some people just need more time to get used to the reality of the situation.

A very, very sensible post but sadly the people you are dealing with are not sensible posters.

They will demand that people have an injection or are ostracised from society for not having an injection that will have a minimum upside.

We've had Lenny and Dublin7 among other consistently repeating lies that the vaccines tops transmission and stops infection. There is nothing there to suggest this is true, all the vaccine does is reduce the severity of the symptoms of Covid which has a big upside for at risk categories but a minimal one for those who are not at risk.

Those who benefit from the upsides should take it or be encouraged to take it and those who don't should be allowed make their own choices.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on February 23, 2021, 04:23:55 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 04:02:58 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 23, 2021, 02:18:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 23, 2021, 01:53:22 PM
Quote from: Louther on February 23, 2021, 01:45:20 PM
Some people making decision that they fit and healthy, which is what they are now, today.

In real time, that could change tomorrow for any number of reasons and they could land in a vulnerable person category. I'd like to give myself a chance if that were to happen and already have a vaccine in place for myself.

You can't force people to take one but you'd like to think they make informed decisions rather than working off hearsay.

Same people make a similar decision each winter about the flu jab. The elderly get it. Those with underlying health conditions get it. People who are susceptible to heavy flus get it. Most of us don't bother as we either haven't had a proper flu, or have had a proper flu so rarely, that the benefits to accrued are minimal.

As a species we are innately good at measuring risk.

——

Before some gobshite rounds on me for comparing flu with Covid, I am not. I am comparing the thought processes of people who seek inoculations.

I can see the reasoning behind your point but the fact you've to add a disclaimer to the post about not comparing it to the flu says a lot about the thought process out there.

People do still think of it "as just a bad flu" - commonly mentioned from early on. That sentiment alone should resonate a lot to people. A bad flu isn't good at all and most people have never truly had it, myself included but have seen people with it and it's not easy. In a Flu season we rarely see it in scale we have with covid - January been a real eye opener for me as to how quickly it caught hold from what was a limited window to spread in December. The age profile of those admitted to ICU wasn't high.

Also worth looking at impact of long covid and the future impacts it will have. Re-infection as well another major unknown at this stage.

The argument of the vaccine affects are one thing but so too are the impact of the above regardless of now mild the virus impacted someone in the present time.

Lot of unknowns still in play.

A "bad flu" season in 17/18 saw more deaths in the month of January 2018 than we have had in any month since Covid came on this island.

I think you play down the seriousness of a bad flu.

Firstly, you never read what I said. Just seen the words flu and couldn't wait to jump in again with January 2018.

An you are wrong as has been pointed out to you several times. The bad flu season in January 2018 didn't kill more people than any month on this island. You keep quoting one number for NI and that's all you got.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 04:48:57 PM
Confirmation that Level 5 restrictions to remain in place until April 5th.

Interesting to se what the North do.

How will it work with the majority of the North vaccinated and small minority in South vaccinated.

Shut the border?  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on February 23, 2021, 04:58:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 04:10:18 PM
The problem is people like Lenny, who don't know their arse from their elbow, spreading lies about what this vaccine achieves.

There is no proof to date that this vaccine stops infection and stops transmission. The upside is that the vaccines at best reduces the chance of you getting a severe dose of the illness or dying. So posters who are pedaling out this myth really need to be called out.

The bottom line is that if you are u40 and fit and healthy then this virus is not a threat to you, or a minimal one - the data shows this true.

So the only upside for a person like me, it will give me a milder form of infection. I'd have concerns about how rushed through the whole vaccine process is, vaccinate the at risk categories and whoever else feels free to want to get one and let's get on with things.

Normally don't reply to this dickhead.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-21/pfizer-biontech-shot-stops-covid-s-spread-israeli-study-shows


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on February 23, 2021, 05:03:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 04:48:57 PM
Confirmation that Level 5 restrictions to remain in place until April 5th.

Interesting to se what the North do.

How will it work with the majority of the North vaccinated and small minority in South vaccinated.

Shut the border?  :o

I must have missed that, where it this place?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 23, 2021, 05:10:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 04:18:29 PM
We've had Lenny and Dublin7 among other consistently repeating lies that the vaccines tops transmission and stops infection. There is nothing there to suggest this is true, all the vaccine does is reduce the severity of the symptoms of Covid which has a big upside for at risk categories but a minimal one for those who are not at risk.

Those who benefit from the upsides should take it or be encouraged to take it and those who don't should be allowed make their own choices.

"Stop" requires only one counter example. However, there is increasing evidence that the vaccine greatly reduces transmission
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-21/pfizer-biontech-shot-stops-covid-s-spread-israeli-study-shows

Very few things in the world are absolute, seat belts do not stop you being killed in cars, smoking may not shorten your life. But in many things we operate with substantial improvement.

I'll bet you 20 Shekels that in future Israel will not allow people go there unless they have been vaccinated and we should not allow people into this country either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 05:50:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 23, 2021, 05:03:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 04:48:57 PM
Confirmation that Level 5 restrictions to remain in place until April 5th.

Interesting to se what the North do.

How will it work with the majority of the North vaccinated and small minority in South vaccinated.

Shut the border?  :o

I must have missed that, where it this place?

The North of this island - the majority will be vaccinated long before the South of the island.

Then what?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 05:54:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 04:10:18 PM
The problem is people like Lenny, who don't know their arse from their elbow, spreading lies about what this vaccine achieves.

There is no proof to date that this vaccine stops infection and stops transmission. The upside is that the vaccines at best reduces the chance of you getting a severe dose of the illness or dying. So posters who are pedaling out this myth really need to be called out.

The bottom line is that if you are u40 and fit and healthy then this virus is not a threat to you, or a minimal one - the data shows this true.

So the only upside for a person like me, it will give me a milder form of infection. I'd have concerns about how rushed through the whole vaccine process is, vaccinate the at risk categories and whoever else feels free to want to get one and let's get on with things.

Don't know their arse from their elbow! That's you, you say you don't know what the vaccine will do as they haven't trialled it long enough to see it's results. But want the vulnerable to get it so you can crack on!

You're so thoughtful
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 23, 2021, 06:06:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 04:10:18 PM
The problem is people like Lenny, who don't know their arse from their elbow, spreading lies about what this vaccine achieves.

There is no proof to date that this vaccine stops infection and stops transmission. The upside is that the vaccines at best reduces the chance of you getting a severe dose of the illness or dying. So posters who are pedaling out this myth really need to be called out.

The bottom line is that if you are u40 and fit and healthy then this virus is not a threat to you, or a minimal one - the data shows this true.

So the only upside for a person like me, it will give me a milder form of infection. I'd have concerns about how rushed through the whole vaccine process is, vaccinate the at risk categories and whoever else feels free to want to get one and let's get on with things.

I stopped reading at this point. Vaccines do not stop infections, they strengthen the immune system so they can fight infections.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 06:11:08 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 23, 2021, 04:58:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 04:10:18 PM
The problem is people like Lenny, who don't know their arse from their elbow, spreading lies about what this vaccine achieves.

There is no proof to date that this vaccine stops infection and stops transmission. The upside is that the vaccines at best reduces the chance of you getting a severe dose of the illness or dying. So posters who are pedaling out this myth really need to be called out.

The bottom line is that if you are u40 and fit and healthy then this virus is not a threat to you, or a minimal one - the data shows this true.

So the only upside for a person like me, it will give me a milder form of infection. I'd have concerns about how rushed through the whole vaccine process is, vaccinate the at risk categories and whoever else feels free to want to get one and let's get on with things.

Normally don't reply to this dickhead.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-21/pfizer-biontech-shot-stops-covid-s-spread-israeli-study-shows

You normally don't reply because you are full of shit and not intelligent enough to make a coherent point.

You've posted a link that does not back up any assertion you made.

Another Lenny own goal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 06:13:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2021, 05:10:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 23, 2021, 04:18:29 PM
We've had Lenny and Dublin7 among other consistently repeating lies that the vaccines tops transmission and stops infection. There is nothing there to suggest this is true, all the vaccine does is reduce the severity of the symptoms of Covid which has a big upside for at risk categories but a minimal one for those who are not at risk.

Those who benefit from the upsides should take it or be encouraged to take it and those who don't should be allowed make their own choices.

"Stop" requires only one counter example. However, there is increasing evidence that the vaccine greatly reduces transmission
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-21/pfizer-biontech-shot-stops-covid-s-spread-israeli-study-shows

Very few things in the world are absolute, seat belts do not stop you being killed in cars, smoking may not shorten your life. But in many things we operate with substantial improvement.

I'll bet you 20 Shekels that in future Israel will not allow people go there unless they have been vaccinated and we should not allow people into this country either.

Another fool posting an article he obviously didn't read.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on February 23, 2021, 06:35:42 PM
Most of the major airlines are testing the vaccine passport app. This looks very likely for short and longterm flights. The 70% will be well surpassed.

As other have mentioned on here, you need to be vaccinated to visit certain countries as is. I wouldn't go down the line of forcing anyone right enough atm. This could change if uptake is low.

I was actually surprised at the 70% uptake on care home employees. Just shows the power of social media. Health Centres are upwards of 99%.

Good man Fear, glad to hear it! Get the jag done and keep Derry safe. Just remember how good the stout is in Paedars!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bannside on February 23, 2021, 06:38:57 PM
It's good alright! You could lose a full day in that place very easily.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 06:40:35 PM
BJ is reviewing the the vaccine passport having dismissed it before, backtracking it seems.

I've people coming into work with lanyards on with the "vaccined" card

Hopefully this will increase the likelihood of going on holidays, entering bars and restaurants
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on February 23, 2021, 06:48:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 06:40:35 PM
BJ is reviewing the the vaccine passport having dismissed it before, backtracking it seems.

I've people coming into work with lanyards on with the "vaccined" card

Hopefully this will increase the likelihood of going on holidays, entering bars and restaurants

Totally agree, it'd be great to know when you're on a flight that everyone is vaccinated. It'd also be great there was a high uptake of the vaccine in countries you're going to. I see some companies are requiring their employees to get the vaccine and that's something I'm glad to see. People should be free to not take the vaccine but they shouldn't be free to put other people at risk. If I'm in a crowded bar or restaurant I'd like to think everyone in there has had the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 07:00:25 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 23, 2021, 06:48:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 06:40:35 PM
BJ is reviewing the the vaccine passport having dismissed it before, backtracking it seems.

I've people coming into work with lanyards on with the "vaccined" card

Hopefully this will increase the likelihood of going on holidays, entering bars and restaurants

Totally agree, it'd be great to know when you're on a flight that everyone is vaccinated. It'd also be great there was a high uptake of the vaccine in countries you're going to. I see some companies are requiring their employees to get the vaccine and that's something I'm glad to see. People should be free to not take the vaccine but they shouldn't be free to put other people at risk. If I'm in a crowded bar or restaurant I'd like to think everyone in there has had the vaccine.

All but one of our staff in the north have taken it, the roll out in the south making more difficult for our staff to get it, that's due to their roll out plan
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on February 23, 2021, 07:30:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 07:00:25 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 23, 2021, 06:48:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 06:40:35 PM
BJ is reviewing the the vaccine passport having dismissed it before, backtracking it seems.

I've people coming into work with lanyards on with the "vaccined" card

Hopefully this will increase the likelihood of going on holidays, entering bars and restaurants

Totally agree, it'd be great to know when you're on a flight that everyone is vaccinated. It'd also be great there was a high uptake of the vaccine in countries you're going to. I see some companies are requiring their employees to get the vaccine and that's something I'm glad to see. People should be free to not take the vaccine but they shouldn't be free to put other people at risk. If I'm in a crowded bar or restaurant I'd like to think everyone in there has had the vaccine.

All but one of our staff in the north have taken it, the roll out in the south making more difficult for our staff to get it, that's due to their roll out plan

After all adults have been offered it, north and south then we can start to use the vaccine passport to access travel, pubs, restaurants, big sports events etc. Israel are already doing it, other countries will inevitably follow suit. It's the only way to safely open up fully.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 23, 2021, 09:16:54 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 04:48:57 PM
Confirmation that Level 5 restrictions to remain in place until April 5th.

Interesting to se what the North do.

How will it work with the majority of the North vaccinated and small minority in South vaccinated.

Shut the border?  :o

Free vaccine if you spend £250 in Buttercrane, have 3 nights in the Titanic Hotel or buy a used car from Donnelly Motors.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 10:14:48 PM
Surely banning smokers from the pub was looked upon as stopping people's rights?

It won't come to this I don't think but there are lots of things we've settled for over the years, drug tests in work being one of them. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 23, 2021, 10:41:44 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 23, 2021, 10:05:36 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 23, 2021, 07:30:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 07:00:25 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 23, 2021, 06:48:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 06:40:35 PM
BJ is reviewing the the vaccine passport having dismissed it before, backtracking it seems.

I've people coming into work with lanyards on with the "vaccined" card

Hopefully this will increase the likelihood of going on holidays, entering bars and restaurants

Totally agree, it'd be great to know when you're on a flight that everyone is vaccinated. It'd also be great there was a high uptake of the vaccine in countries you're going to. I see some companies are requiring their employees to get the vaccine and that's something I'm glad to see. People should be free to not take the vaccine but they shouldn't be free to put other people at risk. If I'm in a crowded bar or restaurant I'd like to think everyone in there has had the vaccine.

All but one of our staff in the north have taken it, the roll out in the south making more difficult for our staff to get it, that's due to their roll out plan

After all adults have been offered it, north and south then we can start to use the vaccine passport to access travel, pubs, restaurants, big sports events etc. Israel are already doing it, other countries will inevitably follow suit. It's the only way to safely open up fully.

Surely a vaccine passport goes against people's human rights?

Same people here in favour of them would probably have no problem with kids being masked up all day in school either.
Surely passports go against human rights then?

Surely seat belts do?

Surely income tax does

If your to follow the logic that says a vaccine passport does

What about Ebola? Should somebody with Ebola be allowed on a plane?

Why would anybody have a problem with kids being masked up all day in school, it's a f**king mask, not handcuffs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 23, 2021, 11:14:50 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on February 23, 2021, 06:35:42 PM
Most of the major airlines are testing the vaccine passport app. This looks very likely for short and longterm flights. The 70% will be well surpassed.

As other have mentioned on here, you need to be vaccinated to visit certain countries as is. I wouldn't go down the line of forcing anyone right enough atm. This could change if uptake is low.

I was actually surprised at the 70% uptake on care home employees. Just shows the power of social media. Health Centres are upwards of 99%.

Good man Fear, glad to hear it! Get the jag done and keep Derry safe. Just remember how good the stout is in Paedars!

A pint of plain is your only man, looking forward to it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 24, 2021, 01:22:29 AM
Quote from: clarshack on February 23, 2021, 10:05:36 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 23, 2021, 07:30:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 07:00:25 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 23, 2021, 06:48:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 06:40:35 PM
BJ is reviewing the the vaccine passport having dismissed it before, backtracking it seems.

I've people coming into work with lanyards on with the "vaccined" card

Hopefully this will increase the likelihood of going on holidays, entering bars and restaurants

Totally agree, it'd be great to know when you're on a flight that everyone is vaccinated. It'd also be great there was a high uptake of the vaccine in countries you're going to. I see some companies are requiring their employees to get the vaccine and that's something I'm glad to see. People should be free to not take the vaccine but they shouldn't be free to put other people at risk. If I'm in a crowded bar or restaurant I'd like to think everyone in there has had the vaccine.

All but one of our staff in the north have taken it, the roll out in the south making more difficult for our staff to get it, that's due to their roll out plan

After all adults have been offered it, north and south then we can start to use the vaccine passport to access travel, pubs, restaurants, big sports events etc. Israel are already doing it, other countries will inevitably follow suit. It's the only way to safely open up fully.

Surely a vaccine passport goes against people's human rights?

Same people here in favour of them would probably have no problem with kids being masked up all day in school either.

In the same way an actual passport does, yes.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 24, 2021, 07:05:59 AM
I don't think we can talk about people's human rights anymore

It's simple if other country's insist that we produce a vaccine on arriving into their country then anyone who wants to travel must have it

I think that is the route most places will go

Do you think Boris and co won't demand a vaccine passport from other arriving? Course he will

That's why I think they are waiting to announce foreign travel on April 12th. Sorting out the vaccine passports. Any country that do not get involved will kiss goodbye to their tourism economy in the short term.
All European countries need tourism and really this is the golden ticket
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ha ha derry on February 24, 2021, 08:34:53 AM
Quote from: lenny on February 23, 2021, 06:48:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 06:40:35 PM
BJ is reviewing the the vaccine passport having dismissed it before, backtracking it seems.

I've people coming into work with lanyards on with the "vaccined" card

Hopefully this will increase the likelihood of going on holidays, entering bars and restaurants

Totally agree, it'd be great to know when you're on a flight that everyone is vaccinated. It'd also be great there was a high uptake of the vaccine in countries you're going to. I see some companies are requiring their employees to get the vaccine and that's something I'm glad to see. People should be free to not take the vaccine but they shouldn't be free to put other people at risk. If I'm in a crowded bar or restaurant I'd like to think everyone in there has had the vaccine.
Does the vaccine stop you from carrying the virus ? Does the vaccine stop you from getting the virus ? If the answer to both the questions is yes then you don't have to worry about vaccine passports for your safety (as long as you have been vaccinated ).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2021, 08:42:46 AM
Quote from: ha ha derry on February 24, 2021, 08:34:53 AM
Quote from: lenny on February 23, 2021, 06:48:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 06:40:35 PM
BJ is reviewing the the vaccine passport having dismissed it before, backtracking it seems.

I've people coming into work with lanyards on with the "vaccined" card

Hopefully this will increase the likelihood of going on holidays, entering bars and restaurants

Totally agree, it'd be great to know when you're on a flight that everyone is vaccinated. It'd also be great there was a high uptake of the vaccine in countries you're going to. I see some companies are requiring their employees to get the vaccine and that's something I'm glad to see. People should be free to not take the vaccine but they shouldn't be free to put other people at risk. If I'm in a crowded bar or restaurant I'd like to think everyone in there has had the vaccine.
Does the vaccine stop you from carrying the virus ? Does the vaccine stop you from getting the virus ? If the answer to both the questions is yes then you don't have to worry about vaccine passports for your safety (as long as you have been vaccinated ).

I think it stops you from being hospitalized. the strain is less and you won't be as unwell, should someone not have it why would a country that has lost a years of visitors risk bringing in another lockdown just to accommodate people who refuse to get it?

Again its up to the individual, should they not take it that is up to them, if it shows that they are a risk to others then public health maybe comes first?

Its a wait and see, once the reports come from the 'live' trials there will be more information on that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 24, 2021, 09:25:19 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2021, 09:16:54 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 04:48:57 PM
Confirmation that Level 5 restrictions to remain in place until April 5th.

Interesting to se what the North do.

How will it work with the majority of the North vaccinated and small minority in South vaccinated.

Shut the border?  :o

Free vaccine if you spend £250 in Buttercrane, have 3 nights in the Titanic Hotel or buy a used car from Donnelly Motors.

I've been hit in those Yankee Candle stores too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ciaraa on February 24, 2021, 11:34:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2021, 08:42:46 AM
Quote from: ha ha derry on February 24, 2021, 08:34:53 AM
Quote from: lenny on February 23, 2021, 06:48:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 06:40:35 PM
BJ is reviewing the the vaccine passport having dismissed it before, backtracking it seems.

I've people coming into work with lanyards on with the "vaccined" card

Hopefully this will increase the likelihood of going on holidays, entering bars and restaurants

Totally agree, it'd be great to know when you're on a flight that everyone is vaccinated. It'd also be great there was a high uptake of the vaccine in countries you're going to. I see some companies are requiring their employees to get the vaccine and that's something I'm glad to see. People should be free to not take the vaccine but they shouldn't be free to put other people at risk. If I'm in a crowded bar or restaurant I'd like to think everyone in there has had the vaccine.
Does the vaccine stop you from carrying the virus ? Does the vaccine stop you from getting the virus ? If the answer to both the questions is yes then you don't have to worry about vaccine passports for your safety (as long as you have been vaccinated ).

I think it stops you from being hospitalized. the strain is less and you won't be as unwell

I have a beachside property for sale in Fintona you might be interested in..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2021, 11:52:07 AM
Quote from: ciaraa on February 24, 2021, 11:34:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 24, 2021, 08:42:46 AM
Quote from: ha ha derry on February 24, 2021, 08:34:53 AM
Quote from: lenny on February 23, 2021, 06:48:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 23, 2021, 06:40:35 PM
BJ is reviewing the the vaccine passport having dismissed it before, backtracking it seems.

I've people coming into work with lanyards on with the "vaccined" card

Hopefully this will increase the likelihood of going on holidays, entering bars and restaurants

Totally agree, it'd be great to know when you're on a flight that everyone is vaccinated. It'd also be great there was a high uptake of the vaccine in countries you're going to. I see some companies are requiring their employees to get the vaccine and that's something I'm glad to see. People should be free to not take the vaccine but they shouldn't be free to put other people at risk. If I'm in a crowded bar or restaurant I'd like to think everyone in there has had the vaccine.
Does the vaccine stop you from carrying the virus ? Does the vaccine stop you from getting the virus ? If the answer to both the questions is yes then you don't have to worry about vaccine passports for your safety (as long as you have been vaccinated ).

I think it stops you from being hospitalized. the strain is less and you won't be as unwell

I have a beachside property for sale in Fintona you might be interested in..

Must be some size of property for it to hit the beach
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 24, 2021, 04:42:25 PM
Robbie Swann and Celebrity McBride would fair put you in bad form
All doom and gloom at the press briefing and is with the lowest death in a day in 5 months
Doom merchants both of them
Absolutely no positivity or hope from either
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on February 24, 2021, 05:18:38 PM
The bad man on the TV won't stop saying there's a pandemic going on.

Sometimes things are shit - and this is definitely one of those times.

Grow up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on February 24, 2021, 05:27:04 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 05:50:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 23, 2021, 05:03:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 04:48:57 PM
Confirmation that Level 5 restrictions to remain in place until April 5th.

Interesting to se what the North do.

How will it work with the majority of the North vaccinated and small minority in South vaccinated.

Shut the border?  :o

I must have missed that, where it this place?

The North of this island - the majority will be vaccinated long before the South of the island.

Then what?

By the 5th of April or have I misread you?

My dad whose 85 got his first jab a month ago isn't due his second till the 1st of April and he's in one of the first cohorts allegedly so his vaccination won't be complete till the 10th of April unless what I've read is wrong!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 24, 2021, 05:28:55 PM
Quote from: Franko on February 24, 2021, 05:18:38 PM
The bad man on the TV won't stop saying there's a pandemic going on.

Sometimes things are shit - and this is definitely one of those times.

Grow up.
Pandemic me hole
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 24, 2021, 05:48:17 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 24, 2021, 05:27:04 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 05:50:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 23, 2021, 05:03:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 04:48:57 PM
Confirmation that Level 5 restrictions to remain in place until April 5th.

Interesting to se what the North do.

How will it work with the majority of the North vaccinated and small minority in South vaccinated.

Shut the border?  :o

I must have missed that, where it this place?

The North of this island - the majority will be vaccinated long before the South of the island.

Then what?

By the 5th of April or have I misread you?

My dad whose 85 got his first jab a month ago isn't due his second till the 1st of April and he's in one of the first cohorts allegedly so his vaccination won't be complete till the 10th of April unless what I've read is wrong!
Sounds about right. I got mine today and will get the top-up on 5th May. Provided I dont die from an adverse reaction.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 24, 2021, 06:26:25 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 24, 2021, 05:28:55 PM
Quote from: Franko on February 24, 2021, 05:18:38 PM
The bad man on the TV won't stop saying there's a pandemic going on.

Sometimes things are shit - and this is definitely one of those times.

Grow up.
Pandemic me hole
Another Lúdair for the ignore list.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 24, 2021, 06:46:54 PM
Why won't people live in a fantasy land where there's no pandemic, if only everybody would do that things would be so much easier

It could be like Weekend At Bernie's
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on February 24, 2021, 08:12:40 PM
Questions for those deciding not take the vaccine. Have you been asking, no, probably pleading (as I'd assume most Covid anti-vaxers are doing it re safety issues) with friends and family not to take it too (you'll be wanting to keep them safe, like yourselves) ? And, in your opinion, should the rest of us not take it during this vaccine roll out?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 24, 2021, 08:15:05 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on February 24, 2021, 08:12:40 PM
Questions for those deciding not take the vaccine. Have you been asking, no, probably pleading (as I'd assume most Covid anti-vaxers are doing it re safety issues) with friends and family not to take it too (you'll be wanting to keep them safe, like yourselves) ? And, in your opinion, should the rest of us not take it during this vaccine roll out?

Everyone should make their own mind up. Not my business to tell others what to do, nor is the right of zealots to impose their will on other people either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 24, 2021, 10:42:47 PM
Zealot seems to be the new buzzword of the frivolously offended

Simon will be happy he's back in vogue
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 25, 2021, 08:37:16 AM
https://haaretz.com/israel-news/drop-in-israel-s-covid-infection-rates-halts-raising-concerns-of-renewed-outbrek-1.9566113... Drop in Israel's COVID Infection Rates Comes to a Halt, Raising Concerns of Renewed Outbreak New daily coronavirus cases were down to 3,500, only to jump up again
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smokin Joe on February 25, 2021, 12:16:16 PM
My wife is a nurse and got the vaccination two weeks ago. She started displaying symptoms 8 days after getting her vaccination, and she subsequently tested positive!

Lots of questions out of that obviously, but what is encouraging is that (so far) she has only had mild symptoms of a high temperature one just one day, was low in energy and had no appetite for a couple of days.  As of now you wouldn't know that she has any illness at all, so hopefully it stays like that
So while the vaccine didn't prevent her from catching it she seems to have gotten a really mild dose of it. And despite us sleeping together for 3 nights since her symptoms started I tested negative yesterday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 25, 2021, 12:28:45 PM
Do they not say there's a 14 day window after getting it?

Our wee boy(1 year old) had it and how neither me nor my wife got it with him getting it is a big mystery to me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 25, 2021, 12:47:28 PM
There has been quite a few of these type of stories anecdotally that I've come across. Same house, one gets it. The others don't.

Vitamin D seems to be something that is mentioned, that seems to be helping people. It's surely worth doing a bit of reading yourself on it, majority of us Irish would be lacking in it anyway and what harm could it do really to start looking after yourself a bit better?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on February 25, 2021, 01:44:05 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on February 25, 2021, 12:16:16 PM
My wife is a nurse and got the vaccination two weeks ago. She started displaying symptoms 8 days after getting her vaccination, and she subsequently tested positive!

Lots of questions out of that obviously, but what is encouraging is that (so far) she has only had mild symptoms of a high temperature one just one day, was low in energy and had no appetite for a couple of days.  As of now you wouldn't know that she has any illness at all, so hopefully it stays like that
So while the vaccine didn't prevent her from catching it she seems to have gotten a really mild dose of it. And despite us sleeping together for 3 nights since her symptoms started I tested negative yesterday.

It takes 3 weeks for the vaccine to be effective. You're not really protected at all for the first 14 days after getting it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on February 25, 2021, 01:46:15 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on February 25, 2021, 12:16:16 PM
My wife is a nurse and got the vaccination two weeks ago. She started displaying symptoms 8 days after getting her vaccination, and she subsequently tested positive!

Lots of questions out of that obviously, but what is encouraging is that (so far) she has only had mild symptoms of a high temperature one just one day, was low in energy and had no appetite for a couple of days.  As of now you wouldn't know that she has any illness at all, so hopefully it stays like that
So while the vaccine didn't prevent her from catching it she seems to have gotten a really mild dose of it. And despite us sleeping together for 3 nights since her symptoms started I tested negative yesterday.

3 times in 2 weeks?!  8)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 25, 2021, 10:29:18 PM
Greece & Austria pushing the EU to introduce a Covid passport for travel. Seems like a no brainer for opening up national borders on some level. It would also see less people refuse to take the vaccine if they couldn't leave the country

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56202645
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ty4Sam on February 25, 2021, 11:16:20 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 25, 2021, 10:29:18 PM
Greece & Austria pushing the EU to introduce a Covid passport for travel. Seems like a no brainer for opening up national borders on some level. It would also see less people refuse to take the vaccine if they couldn't leave the country

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56202645

One problem with the vaccine passport is the length of time that it would be valid for. It is still unknown how long immunity lasts from the vaccine and won't be know for a few months. I agree it's a no brainier but it may take some time to roll out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 25, 2021, 11:36:30 PM
Has Angelo been closed down again?
Only 8 posts on this subject in 24 hours ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Lar Naparka on February 25, 2021, 11:44:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 25, 2021, 11:36:30 PM
Has Angelo been closed down again?
Only 8 posts on this subject in 24 hours ;D
Bedad but you are some tulip. 
You've announced to the world umpteen times that Angelo is on your ignore list and here you are counting his posts down to number, time and topic. Yer some boyo but then again, you are a Rossie so logic doesn't come into it.;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 25, 2021, 11:59:57 PM
You've lost the plot Lareen  ::).
There were 8 posts on the subject none by Angela.
When you've someone on Ignore their post  still appears BUT doesn't show what they say.
Says "You are ignoring this poster"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2021, 06:47:24 AM
The Govt is on a bit of a shaky scraw. Polls indicate voters want an end to lockdown but vaccines at the moment are no silver bullet. Ending lockdown at the wrong time might lead to another one. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 26, 2021, 06:52:33 AM
Never a right time to end lockdown
Without a vaccine we would have to end it sometime with no security of the vaccine and I would say people woukd have to get on with life
If furlough was to end tomorrow lockdown would also end
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on February 26, 2021, 07:52:51 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 26, 2021, 06:52:33 AM
Never a right time to end lockdown
Without a vaccine we would have to end it sometime with no security of the vaccine and I would say people woukd have to get on with life
If furlough was to end tomorrow lockdown would also end

That's easy to say now when numbers are a bit lower and you probably aren't hearing of many people you know with it. I know in my local area a few gatherings over Christmas lead to numerous people getting sick including a few in ICU (who were perfectly healthy). You open up at the wrong time and stay open there will be mass outbreaks and people will be in living in fear and afraid to do anything anyway. People who are saying it isn't that bad etc are all basing on living on it when restrictions have been in place at least slowing the spread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on February 26, 2021, 07:54:24 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2021, 06:47:24 AM
The Govt is on a bit of a shaky scraw. Polls indicate voters want an end to lockdown but vaccines at the moment are no silver bullet. Ending lockdown at the wrong time might lead to another one.

We could just spend the next few years chasing the rainbow instead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 26, 2021, 07:57:13 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-ireland-could-be-close-to-normal-by-end-of-year-says-dr-ronan-glynn-1.4495398

Ireland could return to "close to" normal by the end of the year if "everything goes well" with Covid-19 vaccine supply and uptake and the control of new variants, according to deputy chief medical officer Dr Ronan Glynn.

Though there was no certainty, people have "good reason to be hopeful" and we could be "in a good place" by the end of the summer, he told the National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) briefing on Thursday night.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-times-poll-strong-support-for-reopening-society-as-soon-as-possible-1.4495298
There is strong support for reopening society and the economy as soon as possible, according to the latest Irish Times/Ipsos MRBI opinion poll, with only a minority favouring a long lockdown until the virus has been eliminated.

The poll also shows that the zero-Covid approach is not endorsed by a large majority of respondents, who say they want things to get back to normal once the elderly and vulnerable have been vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on February 26, 2021, 08:14:20 AM
Zero covid is a pipe dream on this island, public compliance will increasingly fall - in line with the seasons / weather, if they persist.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on February 26, 2021, 08:35:38 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2021, 01:46:15 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on February 25, 2021, 12:16:16 PM
My wife is a nurse and got the vaccination two weeks ago. She started displaying symptoms 8 days after getting her vaccination, and she subsequently tested positive!

Lots of questions out of that obviously, but what is encouraging is that (so far) she has only had mild symptoms of a high temperature one just one day, was low in energy and had no appetite for a couple of days.  As of now you wouldn't know that she has any illness at all, so hopefully it stays like that
So while the vaccine didn't prevent her from catching it she seems to have gotten a really mild dose of it. And despite us sleeping together for 3 nights since her symptoms started I tested negative yesterday.

3 times in 2 weeks?!  8)

You lucky lucky barsteward
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on February 26, 2021, 09:24:36 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 26, 2021, 08:14:20 AM
Zero covid is a pipe dream on this island, public compliance will increasingly fall - in line with the seasons / weather, if they persist.

You can't have zero covid with zero fear.

The younger generations (rightly or wrongly) have no fear of Covid.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 26, 2021, 09:52:10 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on February 25, 2021, 11:44:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 25, 2021, 11:36:30 PM
Has Angelo been closed down again?
Only 8 posts on this subject in 24 hours ;D
Bedad but you are some tulip. 
You've announced to the world umpteen times that Angelo is on your ignore list and here you are counting his posts down to number, time and topic. Yer some boyo but then again, you are a Rossie so logic doesn't come into it.;D

He's obsessed.

Pitiful really that he only felt the courage to have a few snipes at me when he thought I was gone.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on February 26, 2021, 05:25:31 PM
Return to normality in most of the world by september , sin e .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 05:32:55 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 26, 2021, 07:54:24 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2021, 06:47:24 AM
The Govt is on a bit of a shaky scraw. Polls indicate voters want an end to lockdown but vaccines at the moment are no silver bullet. Ending lockdown at the wrong time might lead to another one.

We could just spend the next few years chasing the rainbow instead.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 26, 2021, 08:14:20 AM
Zero covid is a pipe dream on this island, public compliance will increasingly fall - in line with the seasons / weather, if they persist.
Governments all over the west have spent the last year chasing the rainbow, in search of a pipe dream

Meanwhile Zero Covid is working very well in lots of countries

Endless lockdown is extremism

Let it rip is far more extreme again
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on February 26, 2021, 06:30:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 05:32:55 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 26, 2021, 07:54:24 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2021, 06:47:24 AM
The Govt is on a bit of a shaky scraw. Polls indicate voters want an end to lockdown but vaccines at the moment are no silver bullet. Ending lockdown at the wrong time might lead to another one.

We could just spend the next few years chasing the rainbow instead.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 26, 2021, 08:14:20 AM
Zero covid is a pipe dream on this island, public compliance will increasingly fall - in line with the seasons / weather, if they persist.
Governments all over the west have spent the last year chasing the rainbow, in search of a pipe dream

Meanwhile Zero Covid is working very well in lots of countries

Endless lockdown is extremism

Let it rip is far more extreme again

Zero covid is a pipe dream here as the government and especially NPHET aren't in favour of it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/newschambers/status/1354868661237010435
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 06:42:12 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 26, 2021, 06:30:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 05:32:55 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 26, 2021, 07:54:24 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2021, 06:47:24 AM
The Govt is on a bit of a shaky scraw. Polls indicate voters want an end to lockdown but vaccines at the moment are no silver bullet. Ending lockdown at the wrong time might lead to another one.

We could just spend the next few years chasing the rainbow instead.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 26, 2021, 08:14:20 AM
Zero covid is a pipe dream on this island, public compliance will increasingly fall - in line with the seasons / weather, if they persist.
Governments all over the west have spent the last year chasing the rainbow, in search of a pipe dream

Meanwhile Zero Covid is working very well in lots of countries

Endless lockdown is extremism

Let it rip is far more extreme again

Zero covid is a pipe dream here as the government and especially NPHET aren't in favour of it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/newschambers/status/1354868661237010435
Have the policies the Irish government pursued for the past year been a pipe dream?

How have they worked?

What now, a year later, can we look back on and say, "that was a good decision", "that was long term planning", "I'm glad they did that", "we can now see the long term benefits"?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2021, 07:49:09 PM
They might stick to the plan the next time. All countries would have had a pandemic plan in place, a risk assessment of sorts, but they failed to put in place and stick to the plan.

Maybe they'll do a risk assessment the next time and stick to it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on February 26, 2021, 07:55:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 06:42:12 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 26, 2021, 06:30:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 05:32:55 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 26, 2021, 07:54:24 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2021, 06:47:24 AM
The Govt is on a bit of a shaky scraw. Polls indicate voters want an end to lockdown but vaccines at the moment are no silver bullet. Ending lockdown at the wrong time might lead to another one.

We could just spend the next few years chasing the rainbow instead.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 26, 2021, 08:14:20 AM
Zero covid is a pipe dream on this island, public compliance will increasingly fall - in line with the seasons / weather, if they persist.
Governments all over the west have spent the last year chasing the rainbow, in search of a pipe dream

Meanwhile Zero Covid is working very well in lots of countries

Endless lockdown is extremism

Let it rip is far more extreme again

Zero covid is a pipe dream here as the government and especially NPHET aren't in favour of it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/newschambers/status/1354868661237010435
Have the policies the Irish government pursued for the past year been a pipe dream?

How have they worked?

What now, a year later, can we look back on and say, "that was a good decision", "that was long term planning", "I'm glad they did that", "we can now see the long term benefits"?

Many of those questions will be asked of the NPHET members when some sort of normality returns for now a covid zero approach will remain a pipe dream for those calling the shots.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 10:22:43 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 26, 2021, 07:55:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 06:42:12 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 26, 2021, 06:30:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 05:32:55 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 26, 2021, 07:54:24 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2021, 06:47:24 AM
The Govt is on a bit of a shaky scraw. Polls indicate voters want an end to lockdown but vaccines at the moment are no silver bullet. Ending lockdown at the wrong time might lead to another one.

We could just spend the next few years chasing the rainbow instead.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 26, 2021, 08:14:20 AM
Zero covid is a pipe dream on this island, public compliance will increasingly fall - in line with the seasons / weather, if they persist.
Governments all over the west have spent the last year chasing the rainbow, in search of a pipe dream

Meanwhile Zero Covid is working very well in lots of countries

Endless lockdown is extremism

Let it rip is far more extreme again

Zero covid is a pipe dream here as the government and especially NPHET aren't in favour of it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/newschambers/status/1354868661237010435
Have the policies the Irish government pursued for the past year been a pipe dream?

How have they worked?

What now, a year later, can we look back on and say, "that was a good decision", "that was long term planning", "I'm glad they did that", "we can now see the long term benefits"?

Many of those questions will be asked of the NPHET members when some sort of normality returns for now a covid zero approach will remain a pipe dream for those calling the shots.
That isn't an answer though

Surely people have some sort of opinion on this

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 10:24:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2021, 07:49:09 PM
They might stick to the plan the next time. All countries would have had a pandemic plan in place, a risk assessment of sorts, but they failed to put in place and stick to the plan.

Maybe they'll do a risk assessment the next time and stick to it
They did put plans in place

The question is: did they work?

Is where we are now where we wanted to be a year ago?

The clear answer would have to be: No
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2021, 11:02:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 10:24:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2021, 07:49:09 PM
They might stick to the plan the next time. All countries would have had a pandemic plan in place, a risk assessment of sorts, but they failed to put in place and stick to the plan.

Maybe they'll do a risk assessment the next time and stick to it
They did put plans in place

The question is: did they work?

Is where we are now where we wanted to be a year ago?

The clear answer would have to be: No

I read somewhere that the IK had the best procedures for a pandemic, the problem was they didn't implement any of it as planned
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 11:05:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2021, 11:02:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 10:24:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2021, 07:49:09 PM
They might stick to the plan the next time. All countries would have had a pandemic plan in place, a risk assessment of sorts, but they failed to put in place and stick to the plan.

Maybe they'll do a risk assessment the next time and stick to it
They did put plans in place

The question is: did they work?

Is where we are now where we wanted to be a year ago?

The clear answer would have to be: No

I read somewhere that the IK had the best procedures for a pandemic, the problem was they didn't implement any of it as planned
Maybe they did

Maybe they put plans for the wrong pandemic

That's actually what happened

They put plans in place for a flu
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2021, 11:16:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 11:05:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2021, 11:02:03 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 10:24:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2021, 07:49:09 PM
They might stick to the plan the next time. All countries would have had a pandemic plan in place, a risk assessment of sorts, but they failed to put in place and stick to the plan.

Maybe they'll do a risk assessment the next time and stick to it
They did put plans in place

The question is: did they work?

Is where we are now where we wanted to be a year ago?

The clear answer would have to be: No

I read somewhere that the IK had the best procedures for a pandemic, the problem was they didn't implement any of it as planned
Maybe they did

Maybe they put plans for the wrong pandemic

That's actually what happened

They put plans in place for a flu

I'll look for it but I'm convinced they didn't, and followed a completely off the cuff approach
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 26, 2021, 11:22:22 PM
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/01/uk-global-leader-pandemics-coronavirus-covid-19-crisis-britain

They could have followed a flu pandemic, even if they had have done that it may have saved more lives
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Corkscrew on February 27, 2021, 01:41:51 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 24, 2021, 05:27:04 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 05:50:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 23, 2021, 05:03:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on February 23, 2021, 04:48:57 PM
Confirmation that Level 5 restrictions to remain in place until April 5th.

Interesting to se what the North do.

How will it work with the majority of the North vaccinated and small minority in South vaccinated.

Shut the border?  :o

I must have missed that, where it this place?

The North of this island - the majority will be vaccinated long before the South of the island.

Then what?

By the 5th of April or have I misread you?

My dad whose 85 got his first jab a month ago isn't due his second till the 1st of April and he's in one of the first cohorts allegedly so his vaccination won't be complete till the 10th of April unless what I've read is wrong!

We should all get it on April 1st.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on February 27, 2021, 01:49:14 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 10:22:43 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 26, 2021, 07:55:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 06:42:12 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 26, 2021, 06:30:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 05:32:55 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 26, 2021, 07:54:24 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2021, 06:47:24 AM
The Govt is on a bit of a shaky scraw. Polls indicate voters want an end to lockdown but vaccines at the moment are no silver bullet. Ending lockdown at the wrong time might lead to another one.

We could just spend the next few years chasing the rainbow instead.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 26, 2021, 08:14:20 AM
Zero covid is a pipe dream on this island, public compliance will increasingly fall - in line with the seasons / weather, if they persist.
Governments all over the west have spent the last year chasing the rainbow, in search of a pipe dream

Meanwhile Zero Covid is working very well in lots of countries

Endless lockdown is extremism

Let it rip is far more extreme again

Zero covid is a pipe dream here as the government and especially NPHET aren't in favour of it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/newschambers/status/1354868661237010435
Have the policies the Irish government pursued for the past year been a pipe dream?

How have they worked?

What now, a year later, can we look back on and say, "that was a good decision", "that was long term planning", "I'm glad they did that", "we can now see the long term benefits"?

Many of those questions will be asked of the NPHET members when some sort of normality returns for now a covid zero approach will remain a pipe dream for those calling the shots.
That isn't an answer though

Surely people have some sort of opinion on this

Public opinion reckoned the Christmas, New Year surge was due to government not fully heeding NPHET and going by latest Times/MRBI opinion poll 68% want to go back to normal once elderly/vulnerable are vaccinated and only 30% support for Zero Covid.

Over the last year the government have made the majority of decisions on the strong advice of NPHET and if they latter felt a zero covid approach was a viable option for this island with two jurisdictions I have no doubt they would have strongly considered it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 27, 2021, 09:08:42 AM
So Auckland once again are back into full lockdown
Someone tested positive and was roaming around for a week. Works in the airport too
Tested negative 3 times then tested positive yesterday
Also Israel have now opened up. The first outside concert happened yesterday only those who have been vaccinated can go. Imagine being 20 years of age in Israel. Told for a year to lockdown to help the elderly and now they open up the elderly let rattle away whilst you have to wait your turn to be vaccinated.
The deaths are plummeting all over the uk.
Hospital admissions plummeting
Admission to hospital this past 2 weeks in the north 59
One day in January 109 were admitted in 1 day!
Vaccines are clearly working.
When do we start asking serious questions.
When do we start to open up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 09:36:30 AM
You need to read more, NI roadmap out on Monday, the last of the 4 UK nations, you mightn't like the timelines but there's clear plans in place, being a halfwit on here won't change it either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 10:34:21 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 27, 2021, 01:49:14 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 10:22:43 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 26, 2021, 07:55:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 06:42:12 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 26, 2021, 06:30:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 05:32:55 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 26, 2021, 07:54:24 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2021, 06:47:24 AM
The Govt is on a bit of a shaky scraw. Polls indicate voters want an end to lockdown but vaccines at the moment are no silver bullet. Ending lockdown at the wrong time might lead to another one.

We could just spend the next few years chasing the rainbow instead.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 26, 2021, 08:14:20 AM
Zero covid is a pipe dream on this island, public compliance will increasingly fall - in line with the seasons / weather, if they persist.
Governments all over the west have spent the last year chasing the rainbow, in search of a pipe dream

Meanwhile Zero Covid is working very well in lots of countries

Endless lockdown is extremism

Let it rip is far more extreme again

Zero covid is a pipe dream here as the government and especially NPHET aren't in favour of it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/newschambers/status/1354868661237010435
Have the policies the Irish government pursued for the past year been a pipe dream?

How have they worked?

What now, a year later, can we look back on and say, "that was a good decision", "that was long term planning", "I'm glad they did that", "we can now see the long term benefits"?

Many of those questions will be asked of the NPHET members when some sort of normality returns for now a covid zero approach will remain a pipe dream for those calling the shots.
That isn't an answer though

Surely people have some sort of opinion on this

Public opinion reckoned the Christmas, New Year surge was due to government not fully heeding NPHET and going by latest Times/MRBI opinion poll 68% want to go back to normal once elderly/vulnerable are vaccinated and only 30% support for Zero Covid.

Over the last year the government have made the majority of decisions on the strong advice of NPHET and if they latter felt a zero covid approach was a viable option for this island with two jurisdictions I have no doubt they would have strongly considered it.
Again though, that's not an answer

My strong impression is that NPHET have been playing with one hand tied behind their backs - but also, they are far from infallible

A big problem with government response in this is the absolute inability to admit mistakes - that seems to be the case to some extent with NPHET as well

But we (Ireland) can look back now and say that whatever we were doing over the last year, the place we are in now is not where we wanted to be

Our approach failed

Yet others are in the place they want to be as regards the virus, or as good a place as can be expected

It has been demonstrated that crushing Covid is possible

And that not going for that was political, ie. the barriers to crushing Covid were man made ones

Diarmuid Ferriter had an article yesterday which I thought was decent

He says that the government has infantilised the population, and he's right

They are governing by focus groups and polls, and that leads to total short termism and cutting corners, trying to please everybody, listening to vested interests who will only lead you astray, listening to Newstalk Text Message Gobshite Man

But this is not how you should govern - it's the opposite of how you should govern - it demonstrates a belief in nothing except being popular - and it's also totally self-defeating, because policy ends up as a shambles

The contrast with Dan Andrews of Victoria and his government, who were utterly vilified but governed with genuine conviction, is glaring

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/diarmaid-ferriter-we-are-being-infantilised-on-covid-19-by-an-immature-government-1.4495083

These polls that are now being quoted as evidence for "opening up" remind me of the Itchy and Scratchy focus group

The kids wanted a down to earth show that was completely off the wall and swarming with magic robots

The Irish public want to open up now but also want to keep Covid crushed, they want restrictions to keep Covid crushed but they also want their old lives back, they want to go on holiday but think it's a disgrace people are coming into the country unchecked

Or this is what the government is telling us

The government's strategy gave us Poochie, who everybody hated

That happened because they couldn't govern - they didn't have the guts to govern, it was too hard to take hard decisions




Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 27, 2021, 10:43:47 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 09:36:30 AM
You need to read more, NI roadmap out on Monday, the last of the 4 UK nations, you mightn't like the timelines but there's clear plans in place, being a halfwit on here won't change it either.

Quoting other countries is just baffling! Israel has opened up, unless you're living there or heading there it's a pointless comparison!

We'll open up when the brave ones get the vaccine and we can safely go about..

I've noticed through work that it's getting busier, more people getting the vaccine and feeling more confident on actually leaving the house.

Hopefully the plans get us out soon, due to the fantastic roll out of the vaccine in comparison to other parts of the island I think it will be.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on February 27, 2021, 11:28:53 AM
The all ireland championship will be split between healy and the athletic grounds at this rate
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on February 27, 2021, 11:53:27 AM
What's the south's plan? Missed that one
Based on data not dates
Data tells us everything is Down
Data tells us all nursing homes vaccinated fully
Data tells us 35% of the population has got 1 vaccine
Data tells us transmission outside is 20 times less likely
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 27, 2021, 01:37:20 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 27, 2021, 11:53:27 AM
What's the south's plan? Missed that one
Based on data not dates
Data tells us everything is Down
Data tells us all nursing homes vaccinated fully
Data tells us 35% of the population has got 1 vaccine
Data tells us transmission outside is 20 times less likely

Where are you getting your data from? Ireland hasn't got near 35% of the population vaccinated. According to the HSE they're administered just over 250k of the 1st dose of the vaccines.

https://covid-19.geohive.ie/pages/vaccinations

Did  you just make up the above?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 27, 2021, 01:45:22 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 27, 2021, 01:37:20 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 27, 2021, 11:53:27 AM
What's the south's plan? Missed that one
Based on data not dates
Data tells us everything is Down
Data tells us all nursing homes vaccinated fully
Data tells us 35% of the population has got 1 vaccine
Data tells us transmission outside is 20 times less likely

Where are you getting your data from? Ireland hasn't got near 35% of the population vaccinated. According to the HSE they're administered just over 250k of the 1st dose of the vaccines.

https://covid-19.geohive.ie/pages/vaccinations

Did  you just make up the above?

Ireland isn't just the 26 counties, you know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 27, 2021, 01:53:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 27, 2021, 01:45:22 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 27, 2021, 01:37:20 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 27, 2021, 11:53:27 AM
What's the south's plan? Missed that one
Based on data not dates
Data tells us everything is Down
Data tells us all nursing homes vaccinated fully
Data tells us 35% of the population has got 1 vaccine
Data tells us transmission outside is 20 times less likely

Where are you getting your data from? Ireland hasn't got near 35% of the population vaccinated. According to the HSE they're administered just over 250k of the 1st dose of the vaccines.

https://covid-19.geohive.ie/pages/vaccinations

Did  you just make up the above?

Ireland isn't just the 26 counties, you know.
His use of "the south" a dead giveaway unless talking about south Armagh.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 27, 2021, 02:03:09 PM
Pretty poor roll out by The south in fairness, having done well with cases/deaths you'd have thought they'd be bang on with the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 02:05:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 27, 2021, 01:45:22 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 27, 2021, 01:37:20 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 27, 2021, 11:53:27 AM
What's the south's plan? Missed that one
Based on data not dates
Data tells us everything is Down
Data tells us all nursing homes vaccinated fully
Data tells us 35% of the population has got 1 vaccine
Data tells us transmission outside is 20 times less likely

Where are you getting your data from? Ireland hasn't got near 35% of the population vaccinated. According to the HSE they're administered just over 250k of the 1st dose of the vaccines.

https://covid-19.geohive.ie/pages/vaccinations

Did  you just make up the above?

Ireland isn't just the 26 counties, you know.
The official name of the 26 counties is "Ireland"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 27, 2021, 02:06:02 PM
Can only vaccinate as you get the stuff :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 27, 2021, 02:10:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 02:05:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 27, 2021, 01:45:22 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 27, 2021, 01:37:20 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 27, 2021, 11:53:27 AM
What's the south's plan? Missed that one
Based on data not dates
Data tells us everything is Down
Data tells us all nursing homes vaccinated fully
Data tells us 35% of the population has got 1 vaccine
Data tells us transmission outside is 20 times less likely

Where are you getting your data from? Ireland hasn't got near 35% of the population vaccinated. According to the HSE they're administered just over 250k of the 1st dose of the vaccines.

https://covid-19.geohive.ie/pages/vaccinations

Did  you just make up the above?

Ireland isn't just the 26 counties, you know.
The official name of the 26 counties is "Ireland"

Or the British Isles  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 27, 2021, 02:17:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 27, 2021, 01:45:22 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 27, 2021, 01:37:20 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 27, 2021, 11:53:27 AM
What's the south's plan? Missed that one
Based on data not dates
Data tells us everything is Down
Data tells us all nursing homes vaccinated fully
Data tells us 35% of the population has got 1 vaccine
Data tells us transmission outside is 20 times less likely

Where are you getting your data from? Ireland hasn't got near 35% of the population vaccinated. According to the HSE they're administered just over 250k of the 1st dose of the vaccines.

https://covid-19.geohive.ie/pages/vaccinations

Did  you just make up the above?

Ireland isn't just the 26 counties, you know.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ebelfastmission/status/1365256925424848897
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on February 27, 2021, 03:01:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 10:34:21 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 27, 2021, 01:49:14 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 10:22:43 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 26, 2021, 07:55:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 06:42:12 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 26, 2021, 06:30:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 26, 2021, 05:32:55 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 26, 2021, 07:54:24 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 26, 2021, 06:47:24 AM
The Govt is on a bit of a shaky scraw. Polls indicate voters want an end to lockdown but vaccines at the moment are no silver bullet. Ending lockdown at the wrong time might lead to another one.

We could just spend the next few years chasing the rainbow instead.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 26, 2021, 08:14:20 AM
Zero covid is a pipe dream on this island, public compliance will increasingly fall - in line with the seasons / weather, if they persist.
Governments all over the west have spent the last year chasing the rainbow, in search of a pipe dream

Meanwhile Zero Covid is working very well in lots of countries

Endless lockdown is extremism

Let it rip is far more extreme again

Zero covid is a pipe dream here as the government and especially NPHET aren't in favour of it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/newschambers/status/1354868661237010435
Have the policies the Irish government pursued for the past year been a pipe dream?

How have they worked?

What now, a year later, can we look back on and say, "that was a good decision", "that was long term planning", "I'm glad they did that", "we can now see the long term benefits"?

Many of those questions will be asked of the NPHET members when some sort of normality returns for now a covid zero approach will remain a pipe dream for those calling the shots.
That isn't an answer though

Surely people have some sort of opinion on this

Public opinion reckoned the Christmas, New Year surge was due to government not fully heeding NPHET and going by latest Times/MRBI opinion poll 68% want to go back to normal once elderly/vulnerable are vaccinated and only 30% support for Zero Covid.

Over the last year the government have made the majority of decisions on the strong advice of NPHET and if they latter felt a zero covid approach was a viable option for this island with two jurisdictions I have no doubt they would have strongly considered it.
Again though, that's not an answer

My strong impression is that NPHET have been playing with one hand tied behind their backs - but also, they are far from infallible

A big problem with government response in this is the absolute inability to admit mistakes - that seems to be the case to some extent with NPHET as well

But we (Ireland) can look back now and say that whatever we were doing over the last year, the place we are in now is not where we wanted to be

Our approach failed

Yet others are in the place they want to be as regards the virus, or as good a place as can be expected

It has been demonstrated that crushing Covid is possible

And that not going for that was political, ie. the barriers to crushing Covid were man made ones

Diarmuid Ferriter had an article yesterday which I thought was decent

He says that the government has infantilised the population, and he's right

They are governing by focus groups and polls, and that leads to total short termism and cutting corners, trying to please everybody, listening to vested interests who will only lead you astray, listening to Newstalk Text Message Gobshite Man

But this is not how you should govern - it's the opposite of how you should govern - it demonstrates a belief in nothing except being popular - and it's also totally self-defeating, because policy ends up as a shambles

The contrast with Dan Andrews of Victoria and his government, who were utterly vilified but governed with genuine conviction, is glaring

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/diarmaid-ferriter-we-are-being-infantilised-on-covid-19-by-an-immature-government-1.4495083

These polls that are now being quoted as evidence for "opening up" remind me of the Itchy and Scratchy focus group

The kids wanted a down to earth show that was completely off the wall and swarming with magic robots

The Irish public want to open up now but also want to keep Covid crushed, they want restrictions to keep Covid crushed but they also want their old lives back, they want to go on holiday but think it's a disgrace people are coming into the country unchecked

Or this is what the government is telling us

The government's strategy gave us Poochie, who everybody hated

That happened because they couldn't govern - they didn't have the guts to govern, it was too hard to take hard decisions

Don't get that impression at all. We aren't Trump or Boris up to lately whom chose to ignore the doctors, professors and scientists view and approach.

Most if not all countries that was done better is down to their location or experience of such viruses. Place them into Irelands location with the English and Boris for neighbours they would have "failed" as much as us.


The poll is an example to people having some sort of opinion on a covid zero approach.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on February 27, 2021, 03:07:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 27, 2021, 02:03:09 PM
Pretty poor roll out by The south in fairness, having done well with cases/deaths you'd have thought they'd be bang on with the vaccine.

EU controlled which will hopefully ramp up in the coming months as planned. J&J coming on board will greatly help.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 27, 2021, 03:53:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 27, 2021, 02:03:09 PM
Pretty poor roll out by The south in fairness, having done well with cases/deaths you'd have thought they'd be bang on with the vaccine.

They are 3rd in the EU in terms of using their vaccine, they cannot conjure up stocks of vaccine to administer when companies like AZ renege on their commitments. The J&J vaccine will be approved in the next fortnight and this will bring a load of extra supply on board.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 27, 2021, 04:01:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 27, 2021, 03:53:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 27, 2021, 02:03:09 PM
Pretty poor roll out by The south in fairness, having done well with cases/deaths you'd have thought they'd be bang on with the vaccine.

They are 3rd in the EU in terms of using their vaccine, they cannot conjure up stocks of vaccine to administer when companies like AZ renege on their commitments. The J&J vaccine will be approved in the next fortnight and this will bring a load of extra supply on board.

So the EU has not attained enough vaccine and lost out to broken commitments, that's unfair, hopefully they'll get back on track.

The distribution is key. The SSE will be used in Belfast to finish off the roll out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 04:07:41 PM
The far right are making fools of themselves in Dublin again

Their self-entitlement is off the scale





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 27, 2021, 04:08:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 02:05:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 27, 2021, 01:45:22 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 27, 2021, 01:37:20 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 27, 2021, 11:53:27 AM
What's the south's plan? Missed that one
Based on data not dates
Data tells us everything is Down
Data tells us all nursing homes vaccinated fully
Data tells us 35% of the population has got 1 vaccine
Data tells us transmission outside is 20 times less likely

Where are you getting your data from? Ireland hasn't got near 35% of the population vaccinated. According to the HSE they're administered just over 250k of the 1st dose of the vaccines.

https://covid-19.geohive.ie/pages/vaccinations

Did  you just make up the above?

Ireland isn't just the 26 counties, you know.
The official name of the 26 counties is "Ireland"

It's the Free State.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 04:26:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 27, 2021, 02:10:26 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 02:05:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 27, 2021, 01:45:22 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 27, 2021, 01:37:20 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 27, 2021, 11:53:27 AM
What's the south's plan? Missed that one
Based on data not dates
Data tells us everything is Down
Data tells us all nursing homes vaccinated fully
Data tells us 35% of the population has got 1 vaccine
Data tells us transmission outside is 20 times less likely

Where are you getting your data from? Ireland hasn't got near 35% of the population vaccinated. According to the HSE they're administered just over 250k of the 1st dose of the vaccines.

https://covid-19.geohive.ie/pages/vaccinations

Did  you just make up the above?

Ireland isn't just the 26 counties, you know.
The official name of the 26 counties is "Ireland"

Or the British Isles  ;)
North West European Archipelago
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 27, 2021, 04:32:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 04:07:41 PM
The far right are making fools of themselves in Dublin again

Their self-entitlement is off the scale
Firing rockets at the Guards among other things.6
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 27, 2021, 08:14:28 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on February 27, 2021, 09:08:42 AM
So Auckland once again are back into full lockdown
Someone tested positive and was roaming around for a week. Works in the airport too
Tested negative 3 times then tested positive yesterday
Also Israel have now opened up. The first outside concert happened yesterday only those who have been vaccinated can go. Imagine being 20 years of age in Israel. Told for a year to lockdown to help the elderly and now they open up the elderly let rattle away whilst you have to wait your turn to be vaccinated.
The deaths are plummeting all over the uk.
Hospital admissions plummeting
Admission to hospital this past 2 weeks in the north 59
One day in January 109 were admitted in 1 day!
Vaccines are clearly working.
When do we start asking serious questions.
When do we start to open up

Admissions in the north are 117 over the last seven days so not sure where you are getting your stats... Check the covid ni dashboard.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on February 27, 2021, 08:19:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 04:07:41 PM
The far right are making fools of themselves in Dublin again

Their self-entitlement is off the scale

That was a fairly big crowd in Dublin today. They can't all be Far Right?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 08:45:21 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 27, 2021, 08:19:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 04:07:41 PM
The far right are making fools of themselves in Dublin again

Their self-entitlement is off the scale

That was a fairly big crowd in Dublin today. They can't all be Far Right?
There may be an element of horseshoe theory in that there is a small, weird mutant far left which shares the aims of the far right - they're pretty much nihilists

But anybody who was there today in support of that is 1000% benefitting the far right, and anybody who doesn't know that is a moron of the highest order

That was obvious at the start - and it's way more obvious now

The far right are the ONLY people who will gain from this

Ireland is seeing a relentless push by the far right and it's the exact same radicalisation process that happened in America and Britain
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on February 27, 2021, 08:47:21 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 27, 2021, 08:19:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 04:07:41 PM
The far right are making fools of themselves in Dublin again

Their self-entitlement is off the scale

That was a fairly big crowd in Dublin today. They can't all be Far Right?
RTE reported that the protest crowd was from a wide mix of political shades.
The mystery is how did the RUC end up there policing?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Downtothewire on February 27, 2021, 08:57:16 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 27, 2021, 08:47:21 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 27, 2021, 08:19:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 04:07:41 PM
The far right are making fools of themselves in Dublin again

Their self-entitlement is off the scale

That was a fairly big crowd in Dublin today. They can't all be Far Right?
RTE reported that the protest crowd was from a wide mix of political shades.
The mystery is how did the RUC end up there policing?

Going out on a limb here. Drew Harris?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tubberman on February 27, 2021, 09:21:45 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 27, 2021, 08:57:16 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 27, 2021, 08:47:21 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 27, 2021, 08:19:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 04:07:41 PM
The far right are making fools of themselves in Dublin again

Their self-entitlement is off the scale

That was a fairly big crowd in Dublin today. They can't all be Far Right?
RTE reported that the protest crowd was from a wide mix of political shades.
The mystery is how did the RUC end up there policing?

Going out on a limb here. Drew Harris?

what are ye shiteing on about?
Fair play to guards, and if they battered more of those gobshites it would have been all the better
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 27, 2021, 09:59:09 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 27, 2021, 08:47:21 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 27, 2021, 08:19:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 04:07:41 PM
The far right are making fools of themselves in Dublin again

Their self-entitlement is off the scale

That was a fairly big crowd in Dublin today. They can't all be Far Right?
RTE reported that the protest crowd was from a wide mix of political shades.
The mystery is how did the RUC end up there policing?

Sid is not interested in the truth.

The far right is whatever he says it is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on February 27, 2021, 10:02:32 PM
Quote from: Downtothewire on February 27, 2021, 08:57:16 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 27, 2021, 08:47:21 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 27, 2021, 08:19:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 04:07:41 PM
The far right are making fools of themselves in Dublin again

Their self-entitlement is off the scale

That was a fairly big crowd in Dublin today. They can't all be Far Right?
RTE reported that the protest crowd was from a wide mix of political shades.
The mystery is how did the RUC end up there policing?

Going out on a limb here. Drew Harris?
If that's the name, a right feckin´blueshirt though. One idiot with a fire work and the SS RUC let loose with batons flying  against hundreds to clear the streets.
They probably missed nabbing the culprit in the blood lust.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tubberman on February 27, 2021, 10:13:16 PM
Is that the new tactic now - the guards are like the SS or the RUC. Go for a lie down you clown
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 10:19:53 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 27, 2021, 08:47:21 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 27, 2021, 08:19:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 04:07:41 PM
The far right are making fools of themselves in Dublin again

Their self-entitlement is off the scale

That was a fairly big crowd in Dublin today. They can't all be Far Right?
RTE reported that the protest crowd was from a wide mix of political shades.
The mystery is how did the RUC end up there policing?
Paul Reynolds would say that though, wouldn't he

No proper organised group anywhere on the left supports this shit

They very much do on the far right

The Gardai were very restrained

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 10:59:14 PM
I don't see how it's 'far right' either, it's load of highly impressionable people. I doubt most of them would be aware what constitutes left or right wing politics, especially the 2 blades with the RTE shirts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 27, 2021, 11:02:04 PM
There needs to be a reasonable voice for people to express their frustration with lockdown and the governments disgraceful handling of it. Labelling everyone there as a far right nut job helps no one and is playing into the hands of the actual nutters like GO'D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:04:06 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 10:59:14 PM
I don't see how it's 'far right' either, it's load of highly impressionable people. I doubt most of them would be aware what constitutes left or right wing politics, especially the 2 blades with the RTE shirts.
Of course it's far right

It's an anti-science, anti-humanity, conspiracy theory-fuelled demonstration of intimidation, which aims to end restrictions which are 100% needed

Total wacko stuff and supported by every far right interest in this country, the lot of them of them support it, no organised interest in the left supports it

Did you "both sides" or attempt to downplay the seriousness of the far right demonstrators at Charlottesville?

Every person there today knew what they were supporting and this shit is designed to be like Charlottesville - there is no good faith aim behind it - only far right nihilism
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 27, 2021, 11:06:11 PM
It's not the far right.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:10:02 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 27, 2021, 11:02:04 PM
There needs to be a reasonable voice for people to express their frustration with lockdown and the governments disgraceful handling of it. Labelling everyone there as a far right nut job helps no one and is playing into the hands of the actual nutters like GO'D

There's barely a discernible right and left in Irish culture or political ideology, let alone a far left or a far right.

Unfortunately though there is a small but very vocal group of Irish people who are unnaturally obsessed with American politics and are determined to draw parallels between what's happening there and here. Same people are utterly oblivious to the fact that the vast majority of Irish people have not the time, will nor interest to explore their political ideology, and just use an old fashioned moral compass instead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:10:06 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 27, 2021, 11:02:04 PM
There needs to be a reasonable voice for people to express their frustration with lockdown and the governments disgraceful handling of it. Labelling everyone there as a far right nut job helps no one and is playing into the hands of the actual nutters like GO'D
If people demonstrably act like nutters, that's what they are

If people have extreme beliefs, they are extremists

To say otherwise is extreme right wing political correctness

It is a demand to lie - to reject the truth in order to protect the feelings of extremists

Everybody there today in support of that demo knew what it was, and knew what would happen - and that's what they wanted to happen

The right consistently cries about personal responsibility and consistently totally rejects any concept of personal responsibility

It is a professional fake grievance industry which aims to totally obliterate any sort of critical thought in favour of fascist mob rule

We have lessons from history to know exactly what this is




Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:11:15 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:10:02 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 27, 2021, 11:02:04 PM
There needs to be a reasonable voice for people to express their frustration with lockdown and the governments disgraceful handling of it. Labelling everyone there as a far right nut job helps no one and is playing into the hands of the actual nutters like GO'D

There's barely a discernible right and left in Irish culture or political ideology, let alone a far left or a far right.

Unfortunately though there is a small but very vocal group of Irish people who are unnaturally obsessed with American politics and are determined to draw parallels between what's happening there and here. Same people are utterly oblivious to the fact that the vast majority of Irish people have not the time, will nor interest to explore their political ideology, and just use an old fashioned moral compass instead.
Many of them there today

It isn't the left that has imported toxic American identity politics into Ireland, it's the likes of the nutcases there today
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:15:09 PM
There hasn't been an import of American identity politics. Not even a semblance of it.

It's a figment of your imagination.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 11:20:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:04:06 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 10:59:14 PM
I don't see how it's 'far right' either, it's load of highly impressionable people. I doubt most of them would be aware what constitutes left or right wing politics, especially the 2 blades with the RTE shirts.
Of course it's far right

It's an anti-science, anti-humanity, conspiracy theory-fuelled demonstration of intimidation, which aims to end restrictions which are 100% needed

Total wacko stuff and supported by every far right interest in this country, the lot of them of them support it, no organised interest in the left supports it

Did you "both sides" or attempt to downplay the seriousness of the far right demonstrators at Charlottesville?

Every person there today knew what they were supporting and this shit is designed to be like Charlottesville - there is no good faith aim behind it - only far right nihilism
No it isn't, most of them don't know their arse from their elbow. The intolerant Liberal coming out in you again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:20:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:15:09 PM
There hasn't been an import of American identity politics. Not even a semblance of it.

It's a figment of your imagination.
Well a minute ago you said there had been

Now you're saying there hasn't

That's a direct contradiction in successive posts

Make up your mind

I suppose it's difficult to make up your mind when you believe in absolutely nothing and believe there is no truth

That's one of the things that has been imported from right-wing US identity politics and conspiracy theorising

You've been heavily influenced by US right-wing identity politics yourself without even realising it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:24:21 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 11:20:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:04:06 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 10:59:14 PM
I don't see how it's 'far right' either, it's load of highly impressionable people. I doubt most of them would be aware what constitutes left or right wing politics, especially the 2 blades with the RTE shirts.
Of course it's far right

It's an anti-science, anti-humanity, conspiracy theory-fuelled demonstration of intimidation, which aims to end restrictions which are 100% needed

Total wacko stuff and supported by every far right interest in this country, the lot of them of them support it, no organised interest in the left supports it

Did you "both sides" or attempt to downplay the seriousness of the far right demonstrators at Charlottesville?

Every person there today knew what they were supporting and this shit is designed to be like Charlottesville - there is no good faith aim behind it - only far right nihilism
No it isn't, most of them don't know their arse from their elbow. The intolerant Liberal coming out in you again.
Of course they knew what they were attending, you have very little regard for the awareness of those who attended the demonstration

Nice right-wing cliche though, did you steal it from Brendan O'Neill?

Liberal values are not about tolerating fascism by the way

The paradox of tolerance is that intolerance must never be tolerated and that means there should be zero tolerance for the far right

This is a lesson that we should all know from very painful history

Seems some are utterly determined to reject those lessons

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:28:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:20:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:15:09 PM
There hasn't been an import of American identity politics. Not even a semblance of it.

It's a figment of your imagination.
Well a minute ago you said there had been

Now you're saying there hasn't

That's a direct contradiction in successive posts

Make up your mind

I suppose it's difficult to make up your mind when you believe in absolutely nothing and believe there is no truth

That's one of the things that has been imported from right-wing US identity politics and conspiracy theorising

You've been heavily influenced by US right-wing identity politics yourself without even realising it

Okay I will restart.

American identity politics do not exist in Ireland apart from as figments in the imagination of a very small, very intolerant group of people  who spend far too much time on social media trying to convince people that it is real.

Pretty much nobody in the history of Ireland has cast a vote anything further right than slightly off centre.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 11:32:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:24:21 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 11:20:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:04:06 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 10:59:14 PM
I don't see how it's 'far right' either, it's load of highly impressionable people. I doubt most of them would be aware what constitutes left or right wing politics, especially the 2 blades with the RTE shirts.
Of course it's far right

It's an anti-science, anti-humanity, conspiracy theory-fuelled demonstration of intimidation, which aims to end restrictions which are 100% needed

Total wacko stuff and supported by every far right interest in this country, the lot of them of them support it, no organised interest in the left supports it

Did you "both sides" or attempt to downplay the seriousness of the far right demonstrators at Charlottesville?

Every person there today knew what they were supporting and this shit is designed to be like Charlottesville - there is no good faith aim behind it - only far right nihilism
No it isn't, most of them don't know their arse from their elbow. The intolerant Liberal coming out in you again.
Of course they knew what they were attending, you have very little regard for the awareness of those who attended the demonstration

Nice right-wing cliche though, did you steal it from Brendan O'Neill?

Liberal values are not about tolerating fascism by the way

The paradox of tolerance is that intolerance must never be tolerated and that means there should be zero tolerance for the far right

This is a lesson that we should all know from very painful history

Seems some are utterly determined to reject those lessons
Piers Corbyn must mess with your head.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:32:56 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:28:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:20:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:15:09 PM
There hasn't been an import of American identity politics. Not even a semblance of it.

It's a figment of your imagination.
Well a minute ago you said there had been

Now you're saying there hasn't

That's a direct contradiction in successive posts

Make up your mind

I suppose it's difficult to make up your mind when you believe in absolutely nothing and believe there is no truth

That's one of the things that has been imported from right-wing US identity politics and conspiracy theorising

You've been heavily influenced by US right-wing identity politics yourself without even realising it

Okay I will restart.

American identity politics do not exist in Ireland apart from as figments in the imagination of a very small, very intolerant group of people  who spend far too much time on social media trying to convince people that it is real.

Pretty much nobody in the history of Ireland has cast a vote anything further right than off centre.
You need to get out more if you believe this is the case

Right-wing US identity politics is a growing problem and it is being heavily pushed

Many young people do indeed spend too much time on social media and do not have the critical tools to have a chance of ascertaining what is real and what is not real - and this stuff matters in the real world - as we saw in America

Northern Ireland is a case study of how insane right-wing identity politics poisons a society, so I would have thought you'd have plenty of first hand experience
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:33:54 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 11:32:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:24:21 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 11:20:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:04:06 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 10:59:14 PM
I don't see how it's 'far right' either, it's load of highly impressionable people. I doubt most of them would be aware what constitutes left or right wing politics, especially the 2 blades with the RTE shirts.
Of course it's far right

It's an anti-science, anti-humanity, conspiracy theory-fuelled demonstration of intimidation, which aims to end restrictions which are 100% needed

Total wacko stuff and supported by every far right interest in this country, the lot of them of them support it, no organised interest in the left supports it

Did you "both sides" or attempt to downplay the seriousness of the far right demonstrators at Charlottesville?

Every person there today knew what they were supporting and this shit is designed to be like Charlottesville - there is no good faith aim behind it - only far right nihilism
No it isn't, most of them don't know their arse from their elbow. The intolerant Liberal coming out in you again.
Of course they knew what they were attending, you have very little regard for the awareness of those who attended the demonstration

Nice right-wing cliche though, did you steal it from Brendan O'Neill?

Liberal values are not about tolerating fascism by the way

The paradox of tolerance is that intolerance must never be tolerated and that means there should be zero tolerance for the far right

This is a lesson that we should all know from very painful history

Seems some are utterly determined to reject those lessons
Piers Corbyn must mess with your head.
That's funny because you actually do come across as being quite like him

I would share a lot of his brother's views however - not all by any stretch
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 11:41:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:33:54 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 11:32:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:24:21 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 11:20:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:04:06 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 10:59:14 PM
I don't see how it's 'far right' either, it's load of highly impressionable people. I doubt most of them would be aware what constitutes left or right wing politics, especially the 2 blades with the RTE shirts.
Of course it's far right

It's an anti-science, anti-humanity, conspiracy theory-fuelled demonstration of intimidation, which aims to end restrictions which are 100% needed

Total wacko stuff and supported by every far right interest in this country, the lot of them of them support it, no organised interest in the left supports it

Did you "both sides" or attempt to downplay the seriousness of the far right demonstrators at Charlottesville?

Every person there today knew what they were supporting and this shit is designed to be like Charlottesville - there is no good faith aim behind it - only far right nihilism
No it isn't, most of them don't know their arse from their elbow. The intolerant Liberal coming out in you again.
Of course they knew what they were attending, you have very little regard for the awareness of those who attended the demonstration

Nice right-wing cliche though, did you steal it from Brendan O'Neill?

Liberal values are not about tolerating fascism by the way

The paradox of tolerance is that intolerance must never be tolerated and that means there should be zero tolerance for the far right

This is a lesson that we should all know from very painful history

Seems some are utterly determined to reject those lessons
Piers Corbyn must mess with your head.
That's funny because you actually do come across as being quite like him

I would share a lot of his brother's views however - not all by any stretch
Nice avoidance, he's a left wing anti lockdown activist among other fuckwittery, but how so, cos he's left wing like? Doesn't happen in Sid world.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:46:48 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 11:41:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:33:54 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 11:32:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:24:21 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 11:20:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:04:06 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 10:59:14 PM
I don't see how it's 'far right' either, it's load of highly impressionable people. I doubt most of them would be aware what constitutes left or right wing politics, especially the 2 blades with the RTE shirts.
Of course it's far right

It's an anti-science, anti-humanity, conspiracy theory-fuelled demonstration of intimidation, which aims to end restrictions which are 100% needed

Total wacko stuff and supported by every far right interest in this country, the lot of them of them support it, no organised interest in the left supports it

Did you "both sides" or attempt to downplay the seriousness of the far right demonstrators at Charlottesville?

Every person there today knew what they were supporting and this shit is designed to be like Charlottesville - there is no good faith aim behind it - only far right nihilism
No it isn't, most of them don't know their arse from their elbow. The intolerant Liberal coming out in you again.
Of course they knew what they were attending, you have very little regard for the awareness of those who attended the demonstration

Nice right-wing cliche though, did you steal it from Brendan O'Neill?

Liberal values are not about tolerating fascism by the way

The paradox of tolerance is that intolerance must never be tolerated and that means there should be zero tolerance for the far right

This is a lesson that we should all know from very painful history

Seems some are utterly determined to reject those lessons
Piers Corbyn must mess with your head.
That's funny because you actually do come across as being quite like him

I would share a lot of his brother's views however - not all by any stretch
Nice avoidance, he's a left wing anti lockdown activist among other fuckwittery, but how so, cos he's left wing like? Doesn't happen in Sid world.
They exist - but as I said they are minute in size plus they are also an example of horseshoe theory, where the very small extreme far left come to effectively have the same aims as the far right

Piers Corbyn is a fruitcake and not taken seriously by any serious left-wing group

No organised left-wing group in this country supported that demo today

In fact People Before Profit, who are frequently branded as far left, support Zero Covid

Don't think I can;t see what you're up to

I've learned from long experience that there's always a reason why anybody wants to deny that something is far right

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on February 27, 2021, 11:48:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 27, 2021, 11:02:04 PM
There needs to be a reasonable voice for people to express their frustration with lockdown and the governments disgraceful handling of it. Labelling everyone there as a far right nut job helps no one and is playing into the hands of the actual nutters like GO'D

The reasonable voice expressing people's frustrations with lockdown is the vast majority of people at home, being reasonable, doing the right thing. Honestly, who isn't fustrated with lockdown??
Those there today, OK nut jobs is maybe a tad harsh, lunatics I'd call them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 11:49:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:46:48 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 11:41:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:33:54 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 11:32:39 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:24:21 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 11:20:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:04:06 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2021, 10:59:14 PM
I don't see how it's 'far right' either, it's load of highly impressionable people. I doubt most of them would be aware what constitutes left or right wing politics, especially the 2 blades with the RTE shirts.
Of course it's far right

It's an anti-science, anti-humanity, conspiracy theory-fuelled demonstration of intimidation, which aims to end restrictions which are 100% needed

Total wacko stuff and supported by every far right interest in this country, the lot of them of them support it, no organised interest in the left supports it

Did you "both sides" or attempt to downplay the seriousness of the far right demonstrators at Charlottesville?

Every person there today knew what they were supporting and this shit is designed to be like Charlottesville - there is no good faith aim behind it - only far right nihilism
No it isn't, most of them don't know their arse from their elbow. The intolerant Liberal coming out in you again.
Of course they knew what they were attending, you have very little regard for the awareness of those who attended the demonstration

Nice right-wing cliche though, did you steal it from Brendan O'Neill?

Liberal values are not about tolerating fascism by the way

The paradox of tolerance is that intolerance must never be tolerated and that means there should be zero tolerance for the far right

This is a lesson that we should all know from very painful history

Seems some are utterly determined to reject those lessons
Piers Corbyn must mess with your head.
That's funny because you actually do come across as being quite like him

I would share a lot of his brother's views however - not all by any stretch
Nice avoidance, he's a left wing anti lockdown activist among other fuckwittery, but how so, cos he's left wing like? Doesn't happen in Sid world.
They exist - but as I said they are minute in size plus they are also an example of horseshoe theory, where the very small extreme far left come to effectively have the same aims as the far right

Piers Corbyn is a fruitcake and not taken seriously by any serious left-wing group

No organised left-wing group in this country supported that demo today

In fact People Before Profit, who are frequently branded as far left, support Zero Covid

Don't think I can;t see what you're up to

I've learned from long experience that there's always a reason why anybody wants to deny that something is far right



So what you're really saying is there could have been left wing support in Dublin today, like with most things - you don't really know. Thank you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:54:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:20:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:15:09 PM
There hasn't been an import of American identity politics. Not even a semblance of it.

It's a figment of your imagination.
Well a minute ago you said there had been

Now you're saying there hasn't

That's a direct contradiction in successive posts

Make up your mind

I suppose it's difficult to make up your mind when you believe in absolutely nothing and believe there is no truth

That's one of the things that has been imported from right-wing US identity politics and conspiracy theorising

You've been heavily influenced by US right-wing identity politics yourself without even realising it

Perhaps I have. But I really don't believe so. My interests in politics are minimal to none. I genuinely couldn't give a f**k if Stalin was in charge or Mussolini was on charge, as long as there was a basis of equality in their policies.


You though, you've too much time on your hands. This is obvious. You spend your life seeking out confirmation bias articles, all which prove to yourself just how correct your convictions are.

And like a true zealot (there's that word again), instead of taking time to consider the clear and obvious weaknesses in your thinking, you prefer instead to spread the word, as loud as possible, often as possible, as rudely as possible. 

Pride that you are right has surpassed  any fear that you might be wrong.

Whatever political ideology you have may indeed be the correct one. But along the lines of how CS Lewis once put it: the reason perhaps it took me so long to convert to Christianity, was Christians.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on February 27, 2021, 11:58:15 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 27, 2021, 08:47:21 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 27, 2021, 08:19:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 04:07:41 PM
The far right are making fools of themselves in Dublin again

Their self-entitlement is off the scale

That was a fairly big crowd in Dublin today. They can't all be Far Right?
RTE reported that the protest crowd was from a wide mix of political shades.
The mystery is how did the RUC end up there policing?

Shocking isn't it. Someone shoots a firework at a Garda and all the Garda's colleagues react.

What is the world coming to if you can't taunt a Garda and shoot a firework at them. Maybe it's just me, but I won't be filing any complaints about any Garda's behavior today.

Only positive about the vermin protesting today is that the sc**bag who fired the firework stood out in his white top so he should be easy to identify on cctv and there won't be any protests allowed in future in relation to Covid for security/safety reasons.

At least people were at home when the protest took place so hopefully no innocent passers by or workers in the area got hurt
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on February 28, 2021, 12:05:24 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:32:56 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:28:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:20:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:15:09 PM
There hasn't been an import of American identity politics. Not even a semblance of it.

It's a figment of your imagination.
Well a minute ago you said there had been

Now you're saying there hasn't

That's a direct contradiction in successive posts

Make up your mind

I suppose it's difficult to make up your mind when you believe in absolutely nothing and believe there is no truth

That's one of the things that has been imported from right-wing US identity politics and conspiracy theorising

You've been heavily influenced by US right-wing identity politics yourself without even realising it

Okay I will restart.

American identity politics do not exist in Ireland apart from as figments in the imagination of a very small, very intolerant group of people  who spend far too much time on social media trying to convince people that it is real.

Pretty much nobody in the history of Ireland has cast a vote anything further right than off centre.
You need to get out more if you believe this is the case

Right-wing US identity politics is a growing problem and it is being heavily pushed

Many young people do indeed spend too much time on social media and do not have the critical tools to have a chance of ascertaining what is real and what is not real - and this stuff matters in the real world - as we saw in America

Northern Ireland is a case study of how insane right-wing identity politics poisons a society, so I would have thought you'd have plenty of first hand experience

There you go again, trying your best to introduce your mental political spectrum where it doesn't exist.

Northern Ireland's current situation has f**k all to do with right wing polices. It's is quite simply the continuation of 100 years when two cultures who have no wish to co-exist in the same space, are physically co-existing in the same space. Not a f**king thing to do with political spectrums. Everything to do with (misplaced) nationalism.

If you're now going to tell me that this is a recent phenomenon, then all I'm going to say is do yourself a favour and step the f**k off Internet forums for a few days, and go and read up on six county history. Not one thing the DUP are doing today is new. These are the same tactics they've always employed. Trump, Quanon, Antifa, Brexit, none of these things matter up here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:14:44 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:54:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:20:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:15:09 PM
There hasn't been an import of American identity politics. Not even a semblance of it.

It's a figment of your imagination.
Well a minute ago you said there had been

Now you're saying there hasn't

That's a direct contradiction in successive posts

Make up your mind

I suppose it's difficult to make up your mind when you believe in absolutely nothing and believe there is no truth

That's one of the things that has been imported from right-wing US identity politics and conspiracy theorising

You've been heavily influenced by US right-wing identity politics yourself without even realising it

Perhaps I have. But I really don't believe so. My interests in politics are minimal to none. I genuinely couldn't give a f**k if Stalin was in charge or Mussolini was on charge, as long as there was a basis of equality in their policies.


You though, you've too much time on your hands. This is obvious. You spend your life seeking out confirmation bias articles, all which prove to yourself just how correct your convictions are.

And like a true zealot (there's that word again), instead of taking time to consider the clear and obvious weaknesses in your thinking, you prefer instead to spread the word, as loud as possible, often as possible, as rudely as possible. 

Pride that you are right has surpassed  any fear that you might be wrong.

Whatever political ideology you have may indeed be the correct one. But along the lines of how CS Lewis once put it: the reason perhaps it took me so long to convert to Christianity, was Christians.
You've as much knowledge of psychology as you do politics

It's quite the chuckle to see somebody who freely admits they know nothing about politics so consistently feel the need to comment on it, it'd be like me feeling the need to comment on Down Junior Football

Your go to method of arguing now seems to be to shout "zealot", which is ironic when you are, in your own way, the most zealous poster of all here, well, maybe the second most zealous

Zealous in your pride in your extreme ignorance, that is - so it's no surprise to see you exclaim that you couldn't give a f**k if Stalin or Mussolini were in charge

And all this tantrum throwing because you refuse to accept a simple fact about the political orientation and purpose of today's demonstration

Again, experience and history tells us why people do that










Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:17:34 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 28, 2021, 12:05:24 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:32:56 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:28:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:20:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:15:09 PM
There hasn't been an import of American identity politics. Not even a semblance of it.

It's a figment of your imagination.
Well a minute ago you said there had been

Now you're saying there hasn't

That's a direct contradiction in successive posts

Make up your mind

I suppose it's difficult to make up your mind when you believe in absolutely nothing and believe there is no truth

That's one of the things that has been imported from right-wing US identity politics and conspiracy theorising

You've been heavily influenced by US right-wing identity politics yourself without even realising it

Okay I will restart.

American identity politics do not exist in Ireland apart from as figments in the imagination of a very small, very intolerant group of people  who spend far too much time on social media trying to convince people that it is real.

Pretty much nobody in the history of Ireland has cast a vote anything further right than off centre.
You need to get out more if you believe this is the case

Right-wing US identity politics is a growing problem and it is being heavily pushed

Many young people do indeed spend too much time on social media and do not have the critical tools to have a chance of ascertaining what is real and what is not real - and this stuff matters in the real world - as we saw in America

Northern Ireland is a case study of how insane right-wing identity politics poisons a society, so I would have thought you'd have plenty of first hand experience

There you go again, trying your best to introduce your mental political spectrum where it doesn't exist.

Northern Ireland's current situation has f**k all to do with right wing polices. It's is quite simply the continuation of 100 years when two cultures who have no wish to co-exist in the same space, are physically co-existing in the same space. Not a f**king thing to do with political spectrums. Everything to do with (misplaced) nationalism.

If you're now going to tell me that this is a recent phenomenon, then all I'm going to say is do yourself a favour and step the f**k off Internet forums for a few days, and go and read up on six county history. Not one thing the DUP are doing today is new. These are the same tactics they've always employed. Trump, Quanon, Antifa, Brexit, none of these things matter up here.
You are denying that culturally, DUP-style nationalism is extreme right-wing?

I wonder how many other posters here would agree with that

Not many, I'd guess
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on February 28, 2021, 12:22:00 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:14:44 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:54:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:20:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:15:09 PM
There hasn't been an import of American identity politics. Not even a semblance of it.

It's a figment of your imagination.
Well a minute ago you said there had been

Now you're saying there hasn't

That's a direct contradiction in successive posts

Make up your mind

I suppose it's difficult to make up your mind when you believe in absolutely nothing and believe there is no truth

That's one of the things that has been imported from right-wing US identity politics and conspiracy theorising

You've been heavily influenced by US right-wing identity politics yourself without even realising it

Perhaps I have. But I really don't believe so. My interests in politics are minimal to none. I genuinely couldn't give a f**k if Stalin was in charge or Mussolini was on charge, as long as there was a basis of equality in their policies.


You though, you've too much time on your hands. This is obvious. You spend your life seeking out confirmation bias articles, all which prove to yourself just how correct your convictions are.

And like a true zealot (there's that word again), instead of taking time to consider the clear and obvious weaknesses in your thinking, you prefer instead to spread the word, as loud as possible, often as possible, as rudely as possible. 

Pride that you are right has surpassed  any fear that you might be wrong.

Whatever political ideology you have may indeed be the correct one. But along the lines of how CS Lewis once put it: the reason perhaps it took me so long to convert to Christianity, was Christians.
You've as much knowledge of psychology as you do politics

It's quite the chuckle to see somebody who freely admits they know nothing about politics so consistently feel the need to comment on it, it'd be like me feeling the need to comment on Down Junior Football

Your go to method of arguing now seems to be to shout "zealot", which is ironic when you are, in your own way, the most zealous poster of all here, well, maybe the second most zealous

Zealous in your pride in your extreme ignorance, that is - so it's no surprise to see you exclaim that you couldn't give a f**k if Stalin or Mussolini were in charge

And all this tantrum throwing because you refuse to accept a simple fact about the political orientation and purpose of today's demonstration

Again, experience and history tells us why people do that


So you're an expert on psychology now too?

No tantrums being thrown here. I'm just pointing out again, and will continue to do so ad infinitum, that the links you oh so want to create between current affairs in Ireland and right wing politics, are nonsense, absolute f**king nonsense.

If you keep bringing it up, I will keep refuting you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:29:26 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 28, 2021, 12:22:00 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:14:44 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:54:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:20:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:15:09 PM
There hasn't been an import of American identity politics. Not even a semblance of it.

It's a figment of your imagination.
Well a minute ago you said there had been

Now you're saying there hasn't

That's a direct contradiction in successive posts

Make up your mind

I suppose it's difficult to make up your mind when you believe in absolutely nothing and believe there is no truth

That's one of the things that has been imported from right-wing US identity politics and conspiracy theorising

You've been heavily influenced by US right-wing identity politics yourself without even realising it

Perhaps I have. But I really don't believe so. My interests in politics are minimal to none. I genuinely couldn't give a f**k if Stalin was in charge or Mussolini was on charge, as long as there was a basis of equality in their policies.


You though, you've too much time on your hands. This is obvious. You spend your life seeking out confirmation bias articles, all which prove to yourself just how correct your convictions are.

And like a true zealot (there's that word again), instead of taking time to consider the clear and obvious weaknesses in your thinking, you prefer instead to spread the word, as loud as possible, often as possible, as rudely as possible. 

Pride that you are right has surpassed  any fear that you might be wrong.

Whatever political ideology you have may indeed be the correct one. But along the lines of how CS Lewis once put it: the reason perhaps it took me so long to convert to Christianity, was Christians.
You've as much knowledge of psychology as you do politics

It's quite the chuckle to see somebody who freely admits they know nothing about politics so consistently feel the need to comment on it, it'd be like me feeling the need to comment on Down Junior Football

Your go to method of arguing now seems to be to shout "zealot", which is ironic when you are, in your own way, the most zealous poster of all here, well, maybe the second most zealous

Zealous in your pride in your extreme ignorance, that is - so it's no surprise to see you exclaim that you couldn't give a f**k if Stalin or Mussolini were in charge

And all this tantrum throwing because you refuse to accept a simple fact about the political orientation and purpose of today's demonstration

Again, experience and history tells us why people do that


So you're an expert on psychology now too?

No tantrums being thrown here. I'm just pointing out again, and will continue to do so ad infinitum, that the links you oh so want to create between current affairs in Ireland and right wing politics, are nonsense, absolute f**king nonsense.

If you keep bringing it up, I will keep refuting you.
It doesn't take much more than basic psychology to see you're choc full of projection

You accuse me of being rude, while being rude, don't worry, I'm not the one moaning about that, you are, you can be as rude as you like with me, I'm a big boy

And all because you can't accept being wrong on a subject you freely admit to knowing nothing about, and because you essentially believe in nothing except being an arsehole on an internet forum - terminally miserable, cynical and gullible - the perfect recruiting ground for far right politics, as it happens

The DUP are apparently not right-wing now

And hurling is not popular in Kilkenny









Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on February 28, 2021, 12:33:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:17:34 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 28, 2021, 12:05:24 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:32:56 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:28:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:20:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:15:09 PM
There hasn't been an import of American identity politics. Not even a semblance of it.

It's a figment of your imagination.
Well a minute ago you said there had been

Now you're saying there hasn't

That's a direct contradiction in successive posts

Make up your mind

I suppose it's difficult to make up your mind when you believe in absolutely nothing and believe there is no truth

That's one of the things that has been imported from right-wing US identity politics and conspiracy theorising

You've been heavily influenced by US right-wing identity politics yourself without even realising it

Okay I will restart.

American identity politics do not exist in Ireland apart from as figments in the imagination of a very small, very intolerant group of people  who spend far too much time on social media trying to convince people that it is real.

Pretty much nobody in the history of Ireland has cast a vote anything further right than off centre.
You need to get out more if you believe this is the case

Right-wing US identity politics is a growing problem and it is being heavily pushed

Many young people do indeed spend too much time on social media and do not have the critical tools to have a chance of ascertaining what is real and what is not real - and this stuff matters in the real world - as we saw in America

Northern Ireland is a case study of how insane right-wing identity politics poisons a society, so I would have thought you'd have plenty of first hand experience

There you go again, trying your best to introduce your mental political spectrum where it doesn't exist.

Northern Ireland's current situation has f**k all to do with right wing polices. It's is quite simply the continuation of 100 years when two cultures who have no wish to co-exist in the same space, are physically co-existing in the same space. Not a f**king thing to do with political spectrums. Everything to do with (misplaced) nationalism.

If you're now going to tell me that this is a recent phenomenon, then all I'm going to say is do yourself a favour and step the f**k off Internet forums for a few days, and go and read up on six county history. Not one thing the DUP are doing today is new. These are the same tactics they've always employed. Trump, Quanon, Antifa, Brexit, none of these things matter up here.
You are denying that culturally, DUP-style nationalism is extreme right-wing?

I wonder how many other posters here would agree with that

Not many, I'd guess

The internal struggle within the six counties has nothing to do with the political spectrum and everything to do with culture / nationalism. One of the protagonists is historically conservative. They're lost in time. They believe in what are basically the same principles  (apart from ultimate sovereign) that De Valera enforced in a liberated Ireland. Hence, what they believe in is not the newfangled right wing fascist disease that you want it to be. Instead, it's stoic conservatism.

Call that out as right wing all you want. If you're referring to a political spectrum you're correct. If you're using it, as you are prone, to describe the DUP as being unwittingly at the behest of global fascist political movement, you're so f**king wrong it's ridiculous.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:34:52 AM
Presumably the wobbler and bennydorano believe "Antifa" (whoever they are) were behind today's demo

And the murderous ransacking of the Capitol too
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:35:59 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 28, 2021, 12:33:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:17:34 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 28, 2021, 12:05:24 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:32:56 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:28:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:20:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:15:09 PM
There hasn't been an import of American identity politics. Not even a semblance of it.

It's a figment of your imagination.
Well a minute ago you said there had been

Now you're saying there hasn't

That's a direct contradiction in successive posts

Make up your mind

I suppose it's difficult to make up your mind when you believe in absolutely nothing and believe there is no truth

That's one of the things that has been imported from right-wing US identity politics and conspiracy theorising

You've been heavily influenced by US right-wing identity politics yourself without even realising it

Okay I will restart.

American identity politics do not exist in Ireland apart from as figments in the imagination of a very small, very intolerant group of people  who spend far too much time on social media trying to convince people that it is real.

Pretty much nobody in the history of Ireland has cast a vote anything further right than off centre.
You need to get out more if you believe this is the case

Right-wing US identity politics is a growing problem and it is being heavily pushed

Many young people do indeed spend too much time on social media and do not have the critical tools to have a chance of ascertaining what is real and what is not real - and this stuff matters in the real world - as we saw in America

Northern Ireland is a case study of how insane right-wing identity politics poisons a society, so I would have thought you'd have plenty of first hand experience

There you go again, trying your best to introduce your mental political spectrum where it doesn't exist.

Northern Ireland's current situation has f**k all to do with right wing polices. It's is quite simply the continuation of 100 years when two cultures who have no wish to co-exist in the same space, are physically co-existing in the same space. Not a f**king thing to do with political spectrums. Everything to do with (misplaced) nationalism.

If you're now going to tell me that this is a recent phenomenon, then all I'm going to say is do yourself a favour and step the f**k off Internet forums for a few days, and go and read up on six county history. Not one thing the DUP are doing today is new. These are the same tactics they've always employed. Trump, Quanon, Antifa, Brexit, none of these things matter up here.
You are denying that culturally, DUP-style nationalism is extreme right-wing?

I wonder how many other posters here would agree with that

Not many, I'd guess

The internal struggle within the six counties has nothing to do with the political spectrum and everything to do with culture / nationalism. One of the protagonists is historically conservative. But they're not not right wing. They're lost in time. They believe in basically the same principles  (apart from ultimate sovereign) that De Valera enforced in a liberated Ireland. Hence, what they believe in is not the newfangled right wing fascist disease that you want it to be. It's stoic conservatism.
"The DUP are not right-wing"

I've heard it all now

Obsessive contrarianism is a mental illness
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 12:36:09 AM
I brought it up before on the US political thread, and bar the US based ex-pats it's a shit show on a different level and bears no resemblance to here. Our politics is based on religion and it's territorial. America? Shit show and anyone over here I know looks at it with minimal interest other than the election.

If a country has a bearing on our day to day it will carry some attention. America has none whatsoever.

There will always be right and left and centre politics, social media has a lot to answer for in persuading or changing thought processes, anyone that changes their views based on what Karen says on FB needs a good kicking.

I'm fecking tired of these right wing, zealots, nazi, Zionist shit finger pointing shite posts that posters use on here. Polluting threads with that continuous shite is bollox.

Stick to the title
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:38:39 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 12:36:09 AM
I brought it up before on the US political thread, and bar the US based ex-pats it's a shit show on a different level and bears no resemblance to here. Our politics is based on religion and it's territorial. America? Shit show and anyone over here I know looks at it with minimal interest other than the election.

If a country has a bearing on our day to day it will carry some attention. America has none whatsoever.

There will always be right and left and centre politics, social media has a lot to answer for in persuading or changing thought processes, anyone that changes their views based on what Karen says on FB needs a good kicking.

I'm fecking tired of these right wing, zealots, nazi, Zionist shit finger pointing shite posts that posters use on here. Polluting threads with that continuous shite is bollox.

Stick to the title
You can be as you like of people bringing up right-wing fascist politics on this forum

I'm far more sick of seeing it in action, as are all normal, reasonable people
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on February 28, 2021, 12:39:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:35:59 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 28, 2021, 12:33:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:17:34 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 28, 2021, 12:05:24 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:32:56 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:28:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:20:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:15:09 PM
There hasn't been an import of American identity politics. Not even a semblance of it.

It's a figment of your imagination.
Well a minute ago you said there had been

Now you're saying there hasn't

That's a direct contradiction in successive posts

Make up your mind

I suppose it's difficult to make up your mind when you believe in absolutely nothing and believe there is no truth

That's one of the things that has been imported from right-wing US identity politics and conspiracy theorising

You've been heavily influenced by US right-wing identity politics yourself without even realising it

Okay I will restart.

American identity politics do not exist in Ireland apart from as figments in the imagination of a very small, very intolerant group of people  who spend far too much time on social media trying to convince people that it is real.

Pretty much nobody in the history of Ireland has cast a vote anything further right than off centre.
You need to get out more if you believe this is the case

Right-wing US identity politics is a growing problem and it is being heavily pushed

Many young people do indeed spend too much time on social media and do not have the critical tools to have a chance of ascertaining what is real and what is not real - and this stuff matters in the real world - as we saw in America

Northern Ireland is a case study of how insane right-wing identity politics poisons a society, so I would have thought you'd have plenty of first hand experience

There you go again, trying your best to introduce your mental political spectrum where it doesn't exist.

Northern Ireland's current situation has f**k all to do with right wing polices. It's is quite simply the continuation of 100 years when two cultures who have no wish to co-exist in the same space, are physically co-existing in the same space. Not a f**king thing to do with political spectrums. Everything to do with (misplaced) nationalism.

If you're now going to tell me that this is a recent phenomenon, then all I'm going to say is do yourself a favour and step the f**k off Internet forums for a few days, and go and read up on six county history. Not one thing the DUP are doing today is new. These are the same tactics they've always employed. Trump, Quanon, Antifa, Brexit, none of these things matter up here.
You are denying that culturally, DUP-style nationalism is extreme right-wing?

I wonder how many other posters here would agree with that

Not many, I'd guess

The internal struggle within the six counties has nothing to do with the political spectrum and everything to do with culture / nationalism. One of the protagonists is historically conservative. But they're not not right wing. They're lost in time. They believe in basically the same principles  (apart from ultimate sovereign) that De Valera enforced in a liberated Ireland. Hence, what they believe in is not the newfangled right wing fascist disease that you want it to be. It's stoic conservatism.
"The DUP are not right-wing"

I've heard it all now

Obsessive contrarianism is a mental illness


If you're referring to right wing as a political spectrum you're correct. If you're using the term, as you are prone, to describe the DUP as being unwittingly at the behest of global fascist political movement, you're so f**king wrong it's ridiculous.

They're lost in time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 12:43:53 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:38:39 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 12:36:09 AM
I brought it up before on the US political thread, and bar the US based ex-pats it's a shit show on a different level and bears no resemblance to here. Our politics is based on religion and it's territorial. America? Shit show and anyone over here I know looks at it with minimal interest other than the election.

If a country has a bearing on our day to day it will carry some attention. America has none whatsoever.

There will always be right and left and centre politics, social media has a lot to answer for in persuading or changing thought processes, anyone that changes their views based on what Karen says on FB needs a good kicking.

I'm fecking tired of these right wing, zealots, nazi, Zionist shit finger pointing shite posts that posters use on here. Polluting threads with that continuous shite is bollox.

Stick to the title
You can be as you like of people bringing up right-wing fascist politics on this forum

I'm far more sick of seeing it in action, as are all normal, reasonable people

So is it right wing politics or just fascist politics?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:49:04 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 28, 2021, 12:39:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:35:59 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 28, 2021, 12:33:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:17:34 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 28, 2021, 12:05:24 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:32:56 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:28:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 27, 2021, 11:20:42 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2021, 11:15:09 PM
There hasn't been an import of American identity politics. Not even a semblance of it.

It's a figment of your imagination.
Well a minute ago you said there had been

Now you're saying there hasn't

That's a direct contradiction in successive posts

Make up your mind

I suppose it's difficult to make up your mind when you believe in absolutely nothing and believe there is no truth

That's one of the things that has been imported from right-wing US identity politics and conspiracy theorising

You've been heavily influenced by US right-wing identity politics yourself without even realising it

Okay I will restart.

American identity politics do not exist in Ireland apart from as figments in the imagination of a very small, very intolerant group of people  who spend far too much time on social media trying to convince people that it is real.

Pretty much nobody in the history of Ireland has cast a vote anything further right than off centre.
You need to get out more if you believe this is the case

Right-wing US identity politics is a growing problem and it is being heavily pushed

Many young people do indeed spend too much time on social media and do not have the critical tools to have a chance of ascertaining what is real and what is not real - and this stuff matters in the real world - as we saw in America

Northern Ireland is a case study of how insane right-wing identity politics poisons a society, so I would have thought you'd have plenty of first hand experience

There you go again, trying your best to introduce your mental political spectrum where it doesn't exist.

Northern Ireland's current situation has f**k all to do with right wing polices. It's is quite simply the continuation of 100 years when two cultures who have no wish to co-exist in the same space, are physically co-existing in the same space. Not a f**king thing to do with political spectrums. Everything to do with (misplaced) nationalism.

If you're now going to tell me that this is a recent phenomenon, then all I'm going to say is do yourself a favour and step the f**k off Internet forums for a few days, and go and read up on six county history. Not one thing the DUP are doing today is new. These are the same tactics they've always employed. Trump, Quanon, Antifa, Brexit, none of these things matter up here.
You are denying that culturally, DUP-style nationalism is extreme right-wing?

I wonder how many other posters here would agree with that

Not many, I'd guess

The internal struggle within the six counties has nothing to do with the political spectrum and everything to do with culture / nationalism. One of the protagonists is historically conservative. But they're not not right wing. They're lost in time. They believe in basically the same principles  (apart from ultimate sovereign) that De Valera enforced in a liberated Ireland. Hence, what they believe in is not the newfangled right wing fascist disease that you want it to be. It's stoic conservatism.
"The DUP are not right-wing"

I've heard it all now

Obsessive contrarianism is a mental illness


If you're referring to right wing as a political spectrum you're correct. If you're using the term, as you are prone, to describe the DUP as being unwittingly at the behest of global fascist political movement, you're so f**king wrong it's ridiculous.

They're lost in time.
That's exactly what the global fascist movement is - lost in time

The DUP subscribe to most of the international fascist movement's core tenets - minus the Holocaust denialism and love for Nazism

But they are very much an empire-loving, white supremacist, science denying, anti-intellectual, minority rights-opposing, theocratic, blood and soil nationalist party at their core

That's most of the international fascist agenda right there

Their kindred spirits are Trumpists, Euugene TerreBlanche and the hardline ultra-nationalist Israelis who want to obliterate Palestine

And the people on the streets of Dublin today

It was like an Incel version of Love Ulster


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:50:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 12:43:53 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:38:39 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 12:36:09 AM
I brought it up before on the US political thread, and bar the US based ex-pats it's a shit show on a different level and bears no resemblance to here. Our politics is based on religion and it's territorial. America? Shit show and anyone over here I know looks at it with minimal interest other than the election.

If a country has a bearing on our day to day it will carry some attention. America has none whatsoever.

There will always be right and left and centre politics, social media has a lot to answer for in persuading or changing thought processes, anyone that changes their views based on what Karen says on FB needs a good kicking.

I'm fecking tired of these right wing, zealots, nazi, Zionist shit finger pointing shite posts that posters use on here. Polluting threads with that continuous shite is bollox.

Stick to the title
You can be as you like of people bringing up right-wing fascist politics on this forum

I'm far more sick of seeing it in action, as are all normal, reasonable people

So is it right wing politics or just fascist politics?
It's getting increasingly hard to tell the difference

Maybe there never was much of a difference
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:54:01 AM
Conor Gallagher of the Irish Times:

https://twitter.com/ConorGallaghe_r/status/1365742348555202571

Harris says "far-left and far-right" groups involved in today's violence. They're really imperfect terms but I've been reporting on these protests from the start and have yet to come across a group that could be called left-wing, never mind far-left.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 01:05:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:50:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 12:43:53 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:38:39 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 12:36:09 AM
I brought it up before on the US political thread, and bar the US based ex-pats it's a shit show on a different level and bears no resemblance to here. Our politics is based on religion and it's territorial. America? Shit show and anyone over here I know looks at it with minimal interest other than the election.

If a country has a bearing on our day to day it will carry some attention. America has none whatsoever.

There will always be right and left and centre politics, social media has a lot to answer for in persuading or changing thought processes, anyone that changes their views based on what Karen says on FB needs a good kicking.

I'm fecking tired of these right wing, zealots, nazi, Zionist shit finger pointing shite posts that posters use on here. Polluting threads with that continuous shite is bollox.

Stick to the title
You can be as you like of people bringing up right-wing fascist politics on this forum

I'm far more sick of seeing it in action, as are all normal, reasonable people

So is it right wing politics or just fascist politics?
It's getting increasingly hard to tell the difference

Maybe there never was much of a difference

It's fair to say there are dicks on both sides, those that are far left and those that are far right, by the very nature of being one sided people are blinded by any discussion that may have a view different to theirs, so by using that they are no different to each other and fundamentally wrong.

Destructive and negative. Sid if you believe you are right all the time and never wrong on your view point then how do you function? Do you have any debating skills that can understand and accept other views? It seems like a lot of hard work
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 09:06:40 AM
Right wing, fascist Sid sick of right wing fascist politics.

Deary me.

The level of delusion in that head of his and the complete lack of self awareness is scary.

Sid should just move to America and live out his divisive dream in reality rather than the tinfoil hat wearing nonsense he tries to turn everything into on this thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 09:36:12 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 09:06:40 AM
Right wing, fascist Sid sick of right wing fascist politics.

Deary me.

The level of delusion in that head of his and the complete lack of self awareness is scary.

Sid should just move to America and live out his divisive dream in reality rather than the tinfoil hat wearing nonsense he tries to turn everything into on this thread.

That post includes you Angelo, your never wrong and always right.

You're both like those friends who you kept at arms length, every discussion turned into a, "wish I hadn't have bothered  bringing that up", topic!

Elements of what you and Sid post may be correct, it's the diabolical way you go about saying it, and the worst is when you dig a hole for yourself, you keep digging!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 28, 2021, 09:48:20 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0228/1199831-dublin-protests/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 10:12:53 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 09:36:12 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 09:06:40 AM
Right wing, fascist Sid sick of right wing fascist politics.

Deary me.

The level of delusion in that head of his and the complete lack of self awareness is scary.

Sid should just move to America and live out his divisive dream in reality rather than the tinfoil hat wearing nonsense he tries to turn everything into on this thread.

That post includes you Angelo, your never wrong and always right.

You're both like those friends who you kept at arms length, every discussion turned into a, "wish I hadn't have bothered  bringing that up", topic!

Elements of what you and Sid post may be correct, it's the diabolical way you go about saying it, and the worst is when you dig a hole for yourself, you keep digging!


I made no reference to your post. You are the most arrogant poster on here by a country mile, abusive and smug in equal measure without a shred of intelligence in any of the nonsense you spout.

Self awareness is way down on your own part.

Some of the posts you get away with on here are horrific considering what other posters have been banned for.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tubberman on February 28, 2021, 10:23:00 AM
Are you like this in "real life" Angelo? Do you either agree 100% or disagree 100% with people on every topic?
Do you insult everyone you disagree with.
Your hysterical posts mean people just stop engaging with you apart from the others who like to argue ad infinitum
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 10:37:10 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 28, 2021, 10:23:00 AM
Are you like this in "real life" Angelo? Do you either agree 100% or disagree 100% with people on every topic?
Do you insult everyone you disagree with.
Your hysterical posts mean people just stop engaging with you apart from the others who like to argue ad infinitum

Another zealot.

I have my views, I will argue them if I think strongly about them. I'm not in every thread around here, there's a select few I have views on, I will articulate them and debate them.

It takes two to argue, I'm happy to do that. The issue seems to be you get really pissed off that I am able to stand my ground and debate it well despite mob mentality. You look at the insults I get on here on a frequent basis. I'm never first to dole them out but I will feel compelled to defend myself against them.

We have rules on this forum that seem to only be administered to a select few posters.

Trailer, lenny, Milltown are among a number of posters who have come out with comments that would have seen me banned off this forum.

Milltown seems to have carte blanche to break every rule on this forum, calling me Harold Shipman and accussing me of wanting to suffocate the elderly with a pillow. Routinely calling me a dickhead, an asshole, a cockhead, muppet, p***k etc but he's allowed do it. He is the type of poster who is not intelligent enough to be able to debate points so routinely debases topics on here in verbal insults and hysterical accusations but the moderators here seem to give him free reign to do so.

It's worrying the kind of mob mentality on here, guys like you loathe to have independent thinkers like me who can argue their points and won't back down to this kind of bully boy mob mentality.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 10:41:07 AM
If you want to see hysterical posting Tubberman, have a look at some of your own contributions.

Quote from: Tubberman on January 04, 2021, 02:41:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 02:28:16 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on January 04, 2021, 02:20:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 02:14:35 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 04, 2021, 01:54:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on January 04, 2021, 12:59:07 PM
We are not going to know the full impact of this until it's all over.

That may be a year or two down the line.

My concern focuses on whether lockdown and particularly rolling lockdowns where you are dipping in and out of (telling businesses to shut and open and shut and open are going to cause serious long term damage to the economy and employment - high unemployment has seriously negative societal and wellbeing factors).

There's a lot of people very entrenched with their head in the sand. Cases are through the roof at the minute, deaths are rising but we do know the main demograph it's impacting, we do know the median age of death is above the median life expectancy, we do know the 90%+ proportion that already have existing underlying healthcare problems, we do know that deaths due to Covid are overstated. There's no doubt on any of the previous factors, they are widely accepted by every department that handles this. So is it a case that the measures we take are to save people months of their lives - already probably crippled with underlying health issues?

And how do we then balance that out with the serious consequences of lockdown on the economy, people's employment prospects, the ability of people to provide for our families, the mental health of people, those who are vulnerable, in abusive relationships, addiction problems, people with disabilities and need constant care and support services, the education and social development of children, the impact it has on people who are alone and isolated.

I'd be extremely worried about the covid tunnel vision governments around the world are obsessed with.

We seem to have thrown all our eggs into this vaccine basket, we know nothing about it yet.

As opposed to what other basket?

Living with the virus. Reasonable restrictive measures which we had in the summer months until such time as the virus has ran its course.

What I'd like to see in the next few months is among all the panic and hysteria at present - what the excess deaths are like in comparison to a sever winter flu season that we have accepted without a bone of contention every single year.

Have we lost the run of ourselves over a 10% rise in deaths, 90% who already had serious underlying health conditions?

We have to be realistic and practical about this. There is a point when the cure causes more destruction and chaos than the problem and there's a lot of people too entrenched to even countenance this.

Until it's run it's course!? You mean heard immunity then? Do you know how long that would take with restrictions in place?
I'll give you a clue - many, many years.

So you're saying rolling lockdowns for many, many, many, many, many, many, many years if the vaccine is a failure?

Or let it kill the old and vulnerable and it will be much quicker.
But I'd prefer not to live in a society that sees that as preferable to protecting those groups until they're vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tubberman on February 28, 2021, 10:55:25 AM
I have no interest getting into a discussion/argument with you. It's a exercise in futility.
I was genuinely wondering if you behave the same way when interacting in-person?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 10:59:21 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 28, 2021, 10:55:25 AM
I have no interest getting into a discussion/argument with you. It's a exercise in futility.
I was genuinely wondering if you behave the same way when interacting in-person?

Of course you don't. You'd lose.

You like to come in with the hysterical reaction then cower when confronted on it.

Good luck so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 11:03:17 AM
You're the wind up toy, or the wee toy that you pulled the string at the back and off it went, only you can pull your own string!

Quoted from a great movie.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 11:05:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 11:03:17 AM
You're the wind up toy, or the wee toy that you pulled the string at the back and off it went, only you can pull your own string!

Quoted from a great movie.

I just find your lack of self awareness startling.

You find it your business to stick your oar into every thread and then resort to insults and abuse when you know full well you are out of your depth.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 11:23:53 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 28, 2021, 10:55:25 AM
I have no interest getting into a discussion/argument with you. It's a exercise in futility.
I was genuinely wondering if you behave the same way when interacting in-person?
The notion of him trying to interact in person with anybody is both hilarious and scary

Luckily it's a very rare occurrence
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 11:29:14 AM
Scarily, there are a few posters here with similar views to this

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1365925850827415554?s=21

Ireland's own QAnon. From @marktighest's copy today, of the women wearing those t-shirts at the GPO

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/e/5/e59cdab0d90ba64d84c27a79a44516d45faf8ec9.jpeg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 11:37:19 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 11:29:14 AM
Scarily, there are a few posters here with similar views to this

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1365925850827415554?s=21

Ireland's own QAnon. From @marktighest's copy today, of the women wearing those t-shirts at the GPO

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/e/5/e59cdab0d90ba64d84c27a79a44516d45faf8ec9.jpeg)

You're projecting again Sid. You're the only type of fanatical who could be brainwashed by that type of nonsense.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 11:45:56 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 11:37:19 AM

You're projecting again Sid. You're the only type of fanatical who could be brainwashed by that type of nonsense.
Sure that makes literally no sense, even by the very low standards of your posts

You're the one that supported the far right demo yesterday, not me  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 11:49:44 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 01:05:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:50:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 12:43:53 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:38:39 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 12:36:09 AM
I brought it up before on the US political thread, and bar the US based ex-pats it's a shit show on a different level and bears no resemblance to here. Our politics is based on religion and it's territorial. America? Shit show and anyone over here I know looks at it with minimal interest other than the election.

If a country has a bearing on our day to day it will carry some attention. America has none whatsoever.

There will always be right and left and centre politics, social media has a lot to answer for in persuading or changing thought processes, anyone that changes their views based on what Karen says on FB needs a good kicking.

I'm fecking tired of these right wing, zealots, nazi, Zionist shit finger pointing shite posts that posters use on here. Polluting threads with that continuous shite is bollox.

Stick to the title
You can be as you like of people bringing up right-wing fascist politics on this forum

I'm far more sick of seeing it in action, as are all normal, reasonable people

So is it right wing politics or just fascist politics?
It's getting increasingly hard to tell the difference

Maybe there never was much of a difference

It's fair to say there are dicks on both sides, those that are far left and those that are far right, by the very nature of being one sided people are blinded by any discussion that may have a view different to theirs, so by using that they are no different to each other and fundamentally wrong.

Destructive and negative. Sid if you believe you are right all the time and never wrong on your view point then how do you function? Do you have any debating skills that can understand and accept other views? It seems like a lot of hard work
Nobody has ever been able to say how I'm wrong on this topic

That's because my views are formed by objective reality

People are free to argue against objective reality

Maybe you should be asking them why they do that

Seems strange that you wouldn't

Nice attempt at "both sidesing"

The truth is not in the middle, whatever the "middle" is
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 28, 2021, 11:56:49 AM
Is there a political term for when extreme left evolve to become the far right. That's what I see happening on social media
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 11:57:47 AM
Difficult one for Qangelo here

Tweet from Sinn Fein press officer

He's right

Now, time for them to expel Paddy Holohan from the party

https://twitter.com/luke_oriordan/status/1365757154565627904

This is bizarre and baseless bothsidesing from Paul Reynolds on RTÉ News.

The 'far left' would not be caught dead with the kind of people behind organising today's 'protests' on Grafton St.

This kind of equating the left with far right is disingenuous and a tad Trumpian tbqh.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:04:46 PM
RTE News are leading with the story of Drew Harris withdrawing his statement that there was left-wing involvement in yesterday's demo

Certain posters here must be feeling a bit foolish now

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 12:07:35 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 11:49:44 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 01:05:52 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:50:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 12:43:53 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:38:39 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 12:36:09 AM
I brought it up before on the US political thread, and bar the US based ex-pats it's a shit show on a different level and bears no resemblance to here. Our politics is based on religion and it's territorial. America? Shit show and anyone over here I know looks at it with minimal interest other than the election.

If a country has a bearing on our day to day it will carry some attention. America has none whatsoever.

There will always be right and left and centre politics, social media has a lot to answer for in persuading or changing thought processes, anyone that changes their views based on what Karen says on FB needs a good kicking.

I'm fecking tired of these right wing, zealots, nazi, Zionist shit finger pointing shite posts that posters use on here. Polluting threads with that continuous shite is bollox.

Stick to the title
You can be as you like of people bringing up right-wing fascist politics on this forum

I'm far more sick of seeing it in action, as are all normal, reasonable people

So is it right wing politics or just fascist politics?
It's getting increasingly hard to tell the difference

Maybe there never was much of a difference

It's fair to say there are dicks on both sides, those that are far left and those that are far right, by the very nature of being one sided people are blinded by any discussion that may have a view different to theirs, so by using that they are no different to each other and fundamentally wrong.

Destructive and negative. Sid if you believe you are right all the time and never wrong on your view point then how do you function? Do you have any debating skills that can understand and accept other views? It seems like a lot of hard work
Nobody has ever been able to say how I'm wrong on this topic

That's because my views are formed by objective reality

People are free to argue against objective reality

Maybe you should be asking them why they do that

Seems strange that you wouldn't

Nice attempt at "both sidesing"

The truth is not in the middle, whatever the "middle" is

People have pointed it out to you countless times.

You are just too entrenched in making bogeymen out of the people you disagree with.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:09:54 PM
Another vacuous inanity from Qangelo  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 12:12:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 11:57:47 AM
Difficult one for Qangelo here

Tweet from Sinn Fein press officer

He's right

Now, time for them to expel Paddy Holohan from the party

https://twitter.com/luke_oriordan/status/1365757154565627904

This is bizarre and baseless bothsidesing from Paul Reynolds on RTÉ News.

The 'far left' would not be caught dead with the kind of people behind organising today's 'protests' on Grafton St.

This kind of equating the left with far right is disingenuous and a tad Trumpian tbqh.

I don't back anything you say I did.

All you can do is try and associate me with something ridiculous and that has no basis or causation.

You are a very nasty person Sid. You should quit with the virtue signalling as you undermine any sort of credible cause with your toxic persona.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:14:31 PM
Talk about tying yourself in knots  ;D

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 12:16:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 12:14:31 PM
Talk about tying yourself in knots  ;D

And you were posting about inanity a minute ago.

A complete lack of self awareness as usual.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 12:20:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 28, 2021, 11:56:49 AM
Is there a political term for when extreme left evolve to become the far right. That's what I see happening on social media

Yes, it's known as Sidangelsm, many believe they are right in everything they post
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 12:23:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 12:20:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 28, 2021, 11:56:49 AM
Is there a political term for when extreme left evolve to become the far right. That's what I see happening on social media

Yes, it's known as Sidangelsm, many believe they are right in everything they post

Whereas Mildredism is the condition that feels you are compelled to offer your contribution on every single thread and resort to insults and abuse when there is depth involved.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on February 28, 2021, 12:27:26 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 28, 2021, 10:55:25 AM
I have no interest getting into a discussion/argument with you. It's a exercise in futility.
I was genuinely wondering if you behave the same way when interacting in-person?
Aspergers or similar.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 12:28:36 PM
Quote from: Hound on February 28, 2021, 12:27:26 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on February 28, 2021, 10:55:25 AM
I have no interest getting into a discussion/argument with you. It's a exercise in futility.
I was genuinely wondering if you behave the same way when interacting in-person?
Aspergers or similar.

Do you think that's funny?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 28, 2021, 01:01:04 PM
15 of the last 18 posts are on my ignore list.
Is this a record?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 28, 2021, 01:09:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 12:20:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 28, 2021, 11:56:49 AM
Is there a political term for when extreme left evolve to become the far right. That's what I see happening on social media

Yes, it's known as Sidangelsm, many believe they are right in everything they post

Lol.honestly I was just to get dictionary out before I caught myself on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 01:18:19 PM
Several posters here dispute this

Yet none of them have made any attempt to say why they dispute it

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvTNaeDXcAA9QEg?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 01:36:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 01:18:19 PM
Several posters here dispute this

Yet none of them have made any attempt to say why they dispute it

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvTNaeDXcAA9QEg?format=jpg&name=large)

So several sources dispute unnamed Garda sources that spoke to Irish Mirror.

Are you putting up unnamed sources from the Irish Mirror as credible now?

If you direct the above question rather than going down one of your crazy rabbitholes that would be great.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 01:38:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 01:36:27 PM


So several sources dispute unnamed Garda sources that spoke to Irish Mirror.

Are you putting up unnamed sources from the Irish Mirror as credible now?

If you direct the above question rather than going down one of your crazy rabbitholes that would be great.
You dispute this

Why?

Why are you defending the far right?

We can all guess why, but it would be good if you'd put it in your own words as to why you're defending the far right
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 01:56:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 01:38:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 01:36:27 PM


So several sources dispute unnamed Garda sources that spoke to Irish Mirror.

Are you putting up unnamed sources from the Irish Mirror as credible now?

If you direct the above question rather than going down one of your crazy rabbitholes that would be great.
You dispute this

Why?

Why are you defending the far right?

We can all guess why, but it would be good if you'd put it in your own words as to why you're defending the far right

Do I dispute it?

I'm not defending the far right. I will go out and say quite clearly that the people who were protesting yesterday were idiots of the highest order and the protest itself served no real purpose and the people that took part largely seemed to be crazies. But I don't know the breakup of those protestors and what political ideology they had - neither do you.

You like to box people in to your nemesis category if they disagree, that is because you are and there's lots of verifiable evidence in your posts, an intolerant bigot.

Not everything is a left/right issue. People who are left wing can be anti-vax, anti-mask etc just as much as people who vote to the right. You cannot seem to accept that because of your intolerance and bigotry.

So here you are mispresenting my views and my words because I don't believe your type of bigotry and intolerance has any place in a functioning society.

I can debate this with you and in return I will have you trying to misrepresent my views and words. You weren't always like this Sid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 02:15:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 01:56:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 01:38:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 01:36:27 PM


So several sources dispute unnamed Garda sources that spoke to Irish Mirror.

Are you putting up unnamed sources from the Irish Mirror as credible now?

If you direct the above question rather than going down one of your crazy rabbitholes that would be great.
You dispute this

Why?

Why are you defending the far right?

We can all guess why, but it would be good if you'd put it in your own words as to why you're defending the far right

Do I dispute it?

I'm not defending the far right. I will go out and say quite clearly that the people who were protesting yesterday were idiots of the highest order and the protest itself served no real purpose and the people that took part largely seemed to be crazies. But I don't know the breakup of those protestors and what political ideology they had - neither do you.

You like to box people in to your nemesis category if they disagree, that is because you are and there's lots of verifiable evidence in your posts, an intolerant bigot.

Not everything is a left/right issue. People who are left wing can be anti-vax, anti-mask etc just as much as people who vote to the right. You cannot seem to accept that because of your intolerance and bigotry.

So here you are mispresenting my views and my words because I don't believe your type of bigotry and intolerance has any place in a functioning society.

I can debate this with you and in return I will have you trying to misrepresent my views and words. You weren't always like this Sid
Yes you are

You're denying that it was a far right demo and that the far right were responsible for yesterdays thuggery

That is absolutely defending the far right

You do this because it is bleedin' obvious that you are far right

What we saw yesterday was the real life manifestation of all the batshit far right nonsense you've been spouting here for yonks

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 02:31:18 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 02:15:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 01:56:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 01:38:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 01:36:27 PM


So several sources dispute unnamed Garda sources that spoke to Irish Mirror.

Are you putting up unnamed sources from the Irish Mirror as credible now?

If you direct the above question rather than going down one of your crazy rabbitholes that would be great.
You dispute this

Why?

Why are you defending the far right?

We can all guess why, but it would be good if you'd put it in your own words as to why you're defending the far right

Do I dispute it?

I'm not defending the far right. I will go out and say quite clearly that the people who were protesting yesterday were idiots of the highest order and the protest itself served no real purpose and the people that took part largely seemed to be crazies. But I don't know the breakup of those protestors and what political ideology they had - neither do you.

You like to box people in to your nemesis category if they disagree, that is because you are and there's lots of verifiable evidence in your posts, an intolerant bigot.

Not everything is a left/right issue. People who are left wing can be anti-vax, anti-mask etc just as much as people who vote to the right. You cannot seem to accept that because of your intolerance and bigotry.

So here you are mispresenting my views and my words because I don't believe your type of bigotry and intolerance has any place in a functioning society.

I can debate this with you and in return I will have you trying to misrepresent my views and words. You weren't always like this Sid
Yes you are

You're denying that it was a far right demo and that the far right were responsible for yesterdays thuggery

That is absolutely defending the far right

You do this because it is bleedin' obvious that you are far right

What we saw yesterday was the real life manifestation of all the batshit far right nonsense you've been spouting here for yonks

You cannot find any evidence of it because I haven't. This is what you have become, an intolerant bigot who attempts to insult, slur and misrepresent those who call on it. I've called the people at the march yesterday idiots and condemned it - that's a direct contradiction to what you are trying to attribute to me. It's also a clear example of the bigotry and intolerance you have. It's a sure sign of the disdain you have for democracy and political discourse.

I haven't never spouted far right nonsense. I have stated my opinions based on data that lockdowns cause more harm than good and I'm happy to hear others opinions and discuss this - unlike you I have always backed parties of the left and not swung around from different centre right parties over the years. I am willing to debate this with anyone. You are the poster with all the hallmarks of the far right - bigotry, misinformation, misrepresentation, totalitarianism, intolerance - these are all the values who espouse on here.

You are on here trying to gaslight every single discussion on this forum into a right v left debate.

We both agree that the people who attended the protests yesterday were idiots so that, by your own anti-logic, makes you far right.

Get yourself together as you are completely incoherent.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:36:06 PM
So lockdowns didn't reduce hospital admissions, deaths and cases?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 02:44:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:36:06 PM
So lockdowns didn't reduce hospital admissions, deaths and cases?

You're looking at it through a singular lens again.

How many cancer screenings were cancelled?
How many mental health issues were accelerated?
How many jobs and businesses are currently lost?
How has children's education suffered?
How has the social development of children suffered?
How much more domestic violence cases have we had?
How many more addiction relapses have we had?
How many people with physical and mental disabilities had their support services interrupted or stopped?

Have you considered all of the above?

If you fail to address the big picture then you can justify anything under a single focus?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:55:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 02:44:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:36:06 PM
So lockdowns didn't reduce hospital admissions, deaths and cases?

You're looking at it through a singular lens again.

How many cancer screenings were cancelled?
How many mental health issues were accelerated?
How many jobs and businesses are currently lost?
How has children's education suffered?
How has the social development of children suffered?
How much more domestic violence cases have we had?
How many more addiction relapses have we had?
How many people with physical and mental disabilities had their support services interrupted or stopped?

Have you considered all of the above?

If you fail to address the big picture then you can justify anything under a single focus?

More people die will cause more mental health issues.

Cancer screenings are happening and surgeries are happening,  I know and see this first hand

Addiction relapses? Stretching on that

Domestic violence, these services never stopped and police services never stopped either, I'm sure cases have increased from I'll not deny that but hospitals are full of people dying from Covid.

You give kids no credit in terms of education and social development, I've kids are they seem fine.

You've mentioned mental health a few times in the one post, mental health has and will be here whether Covid is about, Covid hasn't made someone depressed, if they suffered with depression they'll have done so before lockdown. If their family member die of Covid it would have a more deeper problem for them.

If you are going to consider or post all that stuff, throw up your facts and links.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 03:02:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:55:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 02:44:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:36:06 PM
So lockdowns didn't reduce hospital admissions, deaths and cases?

You're looking at it through a singular lens again.

How many cancer screenings were cancelled?
How many mental health issues were accelerated?
How many jobs and businesses are currently lost?
How has children's education suffered?
How has the social development of children suffered?
How much more domestic violence cases have we had?
How many more addiction relapses have we had?
How many people with physical and mental disabilities had their support services interrupted or stopped?

Have you considered all of the above?

If you fail to address the big picture then you can justify anything under a single focus?

More people die will cause more mental health issues.

Cancer screenings are happening and surgeries are happening,  I know and see this first hand

Addiction relapses? Stretching on that

Domestic violence, these services never stopped and police services never stopped either, I'm sure cases have increased from I'll not deny that but hospitals are full of people dying from Covid.

You give kids no credit in terms of education and social development, I've kids are they seem fine.

You've mentioned mental health a few times in the one post, mental health has and will be here whether Covid is about, Covid hasn't made someone depressed, if they suffered with depression they'll have done so before lockdown. If their family member die of Covid it would have a more deeper problem for them.

If you are going to consider or post all that stuff, throw up your facts and links.

So you have casually dismissed all those other problems with no evidence at all.

Cancer screening and surgeries have been cancelled and scaled back, that will cost lives.

Because your kids "seem" fine that means kids haven't suffered? I think you will find a wide ranging number of child psychologists and educational experts would argue kids are going to have suffered the past year or so and it's going to have long term consequences.

And you have casually dismissed mental health too. We know it's there but has lockdowns and the excessive restrictive measure greatly impacted on this issue and poured accelerant over it? We will find out in due time but a lot of studies show a huge surge in people who have reported mental health problems during the lockdowns that never presented before, we know supports have been scaled back, we know prescriptions in anti-depressants have ramped up during lockdown? Do you think that's healthy or are you going to casually dismiss that too?

The data would seem to suggest that their family member is really only at risk if they are elderly or have underlying health conditions so it's really down to personal responsibility in that case.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 03:15:19 PM
Asked you to put up links instead of your non evidence based stuff.

My sister had cancer surgery 3 weeks ago, my dad was seen and screened regularly from March last year, my next door neighbours dad had cancer removed from his bowel last week.

My kids are fine, what way can I put it? They are fine and not showing the stuff you are talking about. Again give me evidence please

I've casually went through your points, you've a warped idea that lockdown is worse than yours, open up, don't allow old people out as (in your own words) people in nursing homes will die anyways in a year so, crack on with the healthy ones!

For a person that claims he's got all the answers, you've none
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 03:25:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 03:15:19 PM
Asked you to put up links instead of your non evidence based stuff.

My sister had cancer surgery 3 weeks ago, my dad was seen and screened regularly from March last year, my next door neighbours dad had cancer removed from his bowel last week.

My kids are fine, what way can I put it? They are fine and not showing the stuff you are talking about. Again give me evidence please

I've casually went through your points, you've a warped idea that lockdown is worse than yours, open up, don't allow old people out as (in your own words) people in nursing homes will die anyways in a year so, crack on with the healthy ones!

For a person that claims he's got all the answers, you've none

You have asked me to?

So you casually dismiss everything yourself without any basis whatsoever?

It's odd that you expect me to give you all the answers when you point blank refuse to even countenance we have any issues with the above. Here's a fact for you.

You said this.

Cancer screenings are happening and surgeries are happening,  I know and see this first hand

Tell me how that fits in with this graph:

(https://zniup3zx6m0ydqfpv9y6sgtf-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/919_Cancer-backlog-screening_v3.png)

The graph is from Cancer Research UK.

2m cancer screenings cancelled over a 10 week period and you want to casually dismiss that as not being a huge problem created by lockdowns.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 03:31:58 PM
The consultant said to me stop worrying what you read in the news, we are open and carrying out surgeries. Even Poots had his surgery. The screenings are happening also, just not at the rate it should be or has been. But you'd rather have people die of Covid as well
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 03:44:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 03:31:58 PM
The consultant said to me stop worrying what you read in the news, we are open and carrying out surgeries. Even Poots had his surgery. The screenings are happening also, just not at the rate it should be or has been. But you'd rather have people die of Covid as well

What's the point in discussing this with you? I've not said anything of the like. I think we should be looking at the big picture and when you don't like the FACTS presented to you, I get that in return.

You are a child.

I've put valid points forward and once again you have tried to debase a discussion that people should be having with your arrogance and abusiveness.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 04:08:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 03:44:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 03:31:58 PM
The consultant said to me stop worrying what you read in the news, we are open and carrying out surgeries. Even Poots had his surgery. The screenings are happening also, just not at the rate it should be or has been. But you'd rather have people die of Covid as well

What's the point in discussing this with you? I've not said anything of the like. I think we should be looking at the big picture and when you don't like the FACTS presented to you, I get that in return.

You are a child.

I've put valid points forward and once again you have tried to debase a discussion that people should be having with your arrogance and abusiveness.

You have given no solutions, no other way out of it other than close the nursing homes. You're the child here
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on February 28, 2021, 04:20:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 01:56:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 01:38:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 01:36:27 PM


So several sources dispute unnamed Garda sources that spoke to Irish Mirror.

Are you putting up unnamed sources from the Irish Mirror as credible now?

If you direct the above question rather than going down one of your crazy rabbitholes that would be great.
You dispute this

Why?

Why are you defending the far right?

We can all guess why, but it would be good if you'd put it in your own words as to why you're defending the far right

Do I dispute it?

I'm not defending the far right. I will go out and say quite clearly that the people who were protesting yesterday were idiots of the highest order and the protest itself served no real purpose and the people that took part largely seemed to be crazies. But I don't know the breakup of those protestors and what political ideology they had - neither do you.

You like to box people in to your nemesis category if they disagree, that is because you are and there's lots of verifiable evidence in your posts, an intolerant bigot.

Not everything is a left/right issue. People who are left wing can be anti-vax, anti-mask etc just as much as people who vote to the right. You cannot seem to accept that because of your intolerance and bigotry.

So here you are mispresenting my views and my words because I don't believe your type of bigotry and intolerance has any place in a functioning society.

I can debate this with you and in return I will have you trying to misrepresent my views and words. You weren't always like this Sid
We know who organised it. We know who leafleted it. We know who defended the riot. And it wasn't PBP
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 04:21:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 04:08:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 03:44:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 03:31:58 PM
The consultant said to me stop worrying what you read in the news, we are open and carrying out surgeries. Even Poots had his surgery. The screenings are happening also, just not at the rate it should be or has been. But you'd rather have people die of Covid as well

What's the point in discussing this with you? I've not said anything of the like. I think we should be looking at the big picture and when you don't like the FACTS presented to you, I get that in return.

You are a child.

I've put valid points forward and once again you have tried to debase a discussion that people should be having with your arrogance and abusiveness.

You have given no solutions, no other way out of it other than close the nursing homes. You're the child here

You don't want to listen to the problems associated with lockdowns.

You casually dismiss them from a point of ignorance, when you are provided the statistics that show that lockdowns have severe and wide ranging consequences for huge portions of the society you then decide to make hysterical accusations about what other people actually want.

Should I say you women to be the victim of more domestic violence cases because you support lockdowns?
Or that you want more people to die of cancer?
Or that you want children to have their education and social development impacted?
That you want people to lose their jobs and livelihoods?

These are all consequences of Covid and you want to casually dismiss as not worth discussing.

I pointed out all these factors in a post to you and you dismissed all of them as being issues without anything susbtantive whatsoever. It's clear you neither have the intelligence or knowledge to debate these things and provide anything substantive to the debate.

You stick your oar in across this forum on every topic with a smartass comment and a few insults and you run off then, if that's all you have to contribute here then maybe you should leave it at that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 04:22:02 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on February 28, 2021, 04:20:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 01:56:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 01:38:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 01:36:27 PM


So several sources dispute unnamed Garda sources that spoke to Irish Mirror.

Are you putting up unnamed sources from the Irish Mirror as credible now?

If you direct the above question rather than going down one of your crazy rabbitholes that would be great.
You dispute this

Why?

Why are you defending the far right?

We can all guess why, but it would be good if you'd put it in your own words as to why you're defending the far right

Do I dispute it?

I'm not defending the far right. I will go out and say quite clearly that the people who were protesting yesterday were idiots of the highest order and the protest itself served no real purpose and the people that took part largely seemed to be crazies. But I don't know the breakup of those protestors and what political ideology they had - neither do you.

You like to box people in to your nemesis category if they disagree, that is because you are and there's lots of verifiable evidence in your posts, an intolerant bigot.

Not everything is a left/right issue. People who are left wing can be anti-vax, anti-mask etc just as much as people who vote to the right. You cannot seem to accept that because of your intolerance and bigotry.

So here you are mispresenting my views and my words because I don't believe your type of bigotry and intolerance has any place in a functioning society.

I can debate this with you and in return I will have you trying to misrepresent my views and words. You weren't always like this Sid
We know who organised it. We know who leafleted it. We know who defended the riot. And it wasn't PBP

Who said it was PBP?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 04:28:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 04:21:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 04:08:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 03:44:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 03:31:58 PM
The consultant said to me stop worrying what you read in the news, we are open and carrying out surgeries. Even Poots had his surgery. The screenings are happening also, just not at the rate it should be or has been. But you'd rather have people die of Covid as well

What's the point in discussing this with you? I've not said anything of the like. I think we should be looking at the big picture and when you don't like the FACTS presented to you, I get that in return.

You are a child.

I've put valid points forward and once again you have tried to debase a discussion that people should be having with your arrogance and abusiveness.

You have given no solutions, no other way out of it other than close the nursing homes. You're the child here

You don't want to listen to the problems associated with lockdowns.

You casually dismiss them from a point of ignorance, when you are provided the statistics that show that lockdowns have severe and wide ranging consequences for huge portions of the society you then decide to make hysterical accusations about what other people actually want.

Should I say you women to be the victim of more domestic violence cases because you support lockdowns?
Or that you want more people to die of cancer?
Or that you want children to have their education and social development impacted?
That you want people to lose their jobs and livelihoods?

These are all consequences of Covid and you want to casually dismiss as not worth discussing.

I pointed out all these factors in a post to you and you dismissed all of them as being issues without anything susbtantive whatsoever. It's clear you neither have the intelligence or knowledge to debate these things and provide anything substantive to the debate.

You stick your oar in across this forum on every topic with a smartass comment and a few insults and you run off then, if that's all you have to contribute here then maybe you should leave it at that.

You  still haven't given a way out. Saying I've no intelligence while not having an intelligent debate on how you feel is the best way out shows you are hiding from it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 04:29:38 PM
Over 50% of the Israeli adult population now vaccinated with at least one dose and Covid is back on the rise there.

I think there are big question marks on how effective this Covid vaccine is. Governments all across the Western World have thrown their lot in with vaccines and this is a worrying development.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/covid-crisis-amid-scenes-of-mass-purim-gathering-r-approaches-1-660469
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 04:36:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 04:08:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 03:44:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 03:31:58 PM
The consultant said to me stop worrying what you read in the news, we are open and carrying out surgeries. Even Poots had his surgery. The screenings are happening also, just not at the rate it should be or has been. But you'd rather have people die of Covid as well

What's the point in discussing this with you? I've not said anything of the like. I think we should be looking at the big picture and when you don't like the FACTS presented to you, I get that in return.

You are a child.

I've put valid points forward and once again you have tried to debase a discussion that people should be having with your arrogance and abusiveness.

You have given no solutions, no other way out of it other than close the nursing homes. You're the child here

I have given what I believe we should have done many times. We should be living with reasonable restrictions. For me lockdowns have too many wide ranging and long term problems associated with them. I've outlined those problems, I've substantiated them and rather than discuss them - you casually dismissed them and then when they were backed up with facts you decide to hysterically claim I want people to die of Covid.

That's why I called you a child and you're parroting me on that in typical child like behaviour. Grow up.

We're gambling on vaccines being a silver bullet, the news coming out of Israel is worrying over half the population vaccinated with at least one dose and the virus is back on the rampage again.

There's no magic solution to it. People are going to die, be impacted on physically and mentally by both Covid and the response to quelling Covid and you want to suppress discussion on the impact of Covid. You want to carry that suppression out by being abusive and insulting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 04:37:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 04:36:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 04:08:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 03:44:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 03:31:58 PM
The consultant said to me stop worrying what you read in the news, we are open and carrying out surgeries. Even Poots had his surgery. The screenings are happening also, just not at the rate it should be or has been. But you'd rather have people die of Covid as well

What's the point in discussing this with you? I've not said anything of the like. I think we should be looking at the big picture and when you don't like the FACTS presented to you, I get that in return.

You are a child.

I've put valid points forward and once again you have tried to debase a discussion that people should be having with your arrogance and abusiveness.

You have given no solutions, no other way out of it other than close the nursing homes. You're the child here

I have given what I believe we should have done many times. We should be living with reasonable restrictions. For me lockdowns have too many wide ranging and long term problems associated with them. I've outlined those problems, I've substantiated them and rather than discuss them - you casually dismissed them and then when they were backed up with facts you decide to hysterically claim I want people to die of Covid.

That's why I called you a child and you're parroting me on that in typical child like behaviour. Grow up.

We're gambling on vaccines being a silver bullet, the news coming out of Israel is worrying over half the population vaccinated with at least one dose and the virus is back on the rampage again.

There's no magic solution to it. People are going to die, be impacted on physically and mentally by both Covid and the response to quelling Covid and you want to suppress discussion on the impact of Covid. You want to carry that suppression out by being abusive and insulting.

What reasonable restrictions?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 04:40:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 04:37:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 04:36:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 04:08:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 03:44:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 03:31:58 PM
The consultant said to me stop worrying what you read in the news, we are open and carrying out surgeries. Even Poots had his surgery. The screenings are happening also, just not at the rate it should be or has been. But you'd rather have people die of Covid as well

What's the point in discussing this with you? I've not said anything of the like. I think we should be looking at the big picture and when you don't like the FACTS presented to you, I get that in return.

You are a child.

I've put valid points forward and once again you have tried to debase a discussion that people should be having with your arrogance and abusiveness.

You have given no solutions, no other way out of it other than close the nursing homes. You're the child here

I have given what I believe we should have done many times. We should be living with reasonable restrictions. For me lockdowns have too many wide ranging and long term problems associated with them. I've outlined those problems, I've substantiated them and rather than discuss them - you casually dismissed them and then when they were backed up with facts you decide to hysterically claim I want people to die of Covid.

That's why I called you a child and you're parroting me on that in typical child like behaviour. Grow up.

We're gambling on vaccines being a silver bullet, the news coming out of Israel is worrying over half the population vaccinated with at least one dose and the virus is back on the rampage again.

There's no magic solution to it. People are going to die, be impacted on physically and mentally by both Covid and the response to quelling Covid and you want to suppress discussion on the impact of Covid. You want to carry that suppression out by being abusive and insulting.

What reasonable restrictions?

The same reasonable restrictions we lived with during last summer.

Limited capacity, hand hygiene, social distancing, masks etc.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:36:06 PM
So lockdowns didn't reduce hospital admissions, deaths and cases?

Go ask the nuns in the Northern Kentucky monastery mentioned below of what they now think about lock downs and vaccines. The Coincidence Theorists are in full flow. 

"Earlier this month WKRC Local 12 in Kentucky reported how two nuns died and 28 out of the 35 nuns at a Northern Kentucky monastery tested positive for COVID just two days after receiving their first experimental mRNA COVID injections.

The leadership of the monastery, as well as the local media, were shocked at the "outbreak" of COVID and resulting two deaths, because the monastery was not open to visitors, and the residents had not traveled outside of the monastery.

If ever one wanted to find a totally locked down facility with no exposure to the outside world, a monastery is about as locked down as one can get.

Nevertheless, following what we have consistently seen in our news reports where a religious belief in vaccines prevents one from thinking logically and even considering the possibility that these experimental, non-FDA approved mRNA injections could have anything to do with the deaths or COVID outbreaks, the experimental injections they received just two days before were never even considered to be the cause of the deaths or illnesses".

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on February 28, 2021, 05:39:53 PM
Weekly update for the ROI

Cases 4574 (972 fewer than last week)
Reported Deaths 185 ( 7 fewer than last week)

In hospital 554 (190 fewer than a week ago)
In ICU 133 (15 fewer than a week ago)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on February 28, 2021, 05:50:19 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:36:06 PM
So lockdowns didn't reduce hospital admissions, deaths and cases?

Go ask the nuns in the Northern Kentucky monastery mentioned below of what they now think about lock downs and vaccines. The Coincidence Theorists are in full flow. 

"Earlier this month WKRC Local 12 in Kentucky reported how two nuns died and 28 out of the 35 nuns at a Northern Kentucky monastery tested positive for COVID just two days after receiving their first experimental mRNA COVID injections.

The leadership of the monastery, as well as the local media, were shocked at the "outbreak" of COVID and resulting two deaths, because the monastery was not open to visitors, and the residents had not traveled outside of the monastery.

If ever one wanted to find a totally locked down facility with no exposure to the outside world, a monastery is about as locked down as one can get.

Nevertheless, following what we have consistently seen in our news reports where a religious belief in vaccines prevents one from thinking logically and even considering the possibility that these experimental, non-FDA approved mRNA injections could have anything to do with the deaths or COVID outbreaks, the experimental injections they received just two days before were never even considered to be the cause of the deaths or illnesses".


It's well known by now by most people that the vaccine doesn't protect you until about day 21. This story doesn't ring true at all but if these nuns are showing symptoms 2 days after getting the vaccine it means they were probably infected 10-12 days before their vaccine. It's very hard to completely avoid contact with the outside world, I'm sure there were people arriving to supply food or to do maintenance work etc. All it takes is for one to get infected.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 05:52:49 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 28, 2021, 05:50:19 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:36:06 PM
So lockdowns didn't reduce hospital admissions, deaths and cases?

Go ask the nuns in the Northern Kentucky monastery mentioned below of what they now think about lock downs and vaccines. The Coincidence Theorists are in full flow. 

"Earlier this month WKRC Local 12 in Kentucky reported how two nuns died and 28 out of the 35 nuns at a Northern Kentucky monastery tested positive for COVID just two days after receiving their first experimental mRNA COVID injections.

The leadership of the monastery, as well as the local media, were shocked at the "outbreak" of COVID and resulting two deaths, because the monastery was not open to visitors, and the residents had not traveled outside of the monastery.

If ever one wanted to find a totally locked down facility with no exposure to the outside world, a monastery is about as locked down as one can get.

Nevertheless, following what we have consistently seen in our news reports where a religious belief in vaccines prevents one from thinking logically and even considering the possibility that these experimental, non-FDA approved mRNA injections could have anything to do with the deaths or COVID outbreaks, the experimental injections they received just two days before were never even considered to be the cause of the deaths or illnesses".


It's well known by now by most people that the vaccine doesn't protect you until about day 21. This story doesn't ring true at all but if these nuns are showing symptoms 2 days after getting the vaccine it means they were probably infected 10-12 days before their vaccine. It's very hard to completely avoid contact with the outside world, I'm sure there were people arriving to supply food or to do maintenance work etc. All it takes is for one to get infected.

Well known?

Do you countenance that the vaccine could possibly have been something to do with the deaths or just a coincidence?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on February 28, 2021, 06:28:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 05:52:49 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 28, 2021, 05:50:19 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:36:06 PM
So lockdowns didn't reduce hospital admissions, deaths and cases?

Go ask the nuns in the Northern Kentucky monastery mentioned below of what they now think about lock downs and vaccines. The Coincidence Theorists are in full flow. 

"Earlier this month WKRC Local 12 in Kentucky reported how two nuns died and 28 out of the 35 nuns at a Northern Kentucky monastery tested positive for COVID just two days after receiving their first experimental mRNA COVID injections.

The leadership of the monastery, as well as the local media, were shocked at the "outbreak" of COVID and resulting two deaths, because the monastery was not open to visitors, and the residents had not traveled outside of the monastery.

If ever one wanted to find a totally locked down facility with no exposure to the outside world, a monastery is about as locked down as one can get.

Nevertheless, following what we have consistently seen in our news reports where a religious belief in vaccines prevents one from thinking logically and even considering the possibility that these experimental, non-FDA approved mRNA injections could have anything to do with the deaths or COVID outbreaks, the experimental injections they received just two days before were never even considered to be the cause of the deaths or illnesses".


It's well known by now by most people that the vaccine doesn't protect you until about day 21. This story doesn't ring true at all but if these nuns are showing symptoms 2 days after getting the vaccine it means they were probably infected 10-12 days before their vaccine. It's very hard to completely avoid contact with the outside world, I'm sure there were people arriving to supply food or to do maintenance work etc. All it takes is for one to get infected.

Well known?

Do you countenance that the vaccine could possibly have been something to do with the deaths or just a coincidence?

The vaccine doesn't give people COVID. That isn't my opinion, it's a fact. Therefore there is zero chance that the 28 nuns who've tested positive got it from the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 06:30:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 04:40:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 04:37:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 04:36:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 04:08:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 03:44:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 03:31:58 PM
The consultant said to me stop worrying what you read in the news, we are open and carrying out surgeries. Even Poots had his surgery. The screenings are happening also, just not at the rate it should be or has been. But you'd rather have people die of Covid as well

What's the point in discussing this with you? I've not said anything of the like. I think we should be looking at the big picture and when you don't like the FACTS presented to you, I get that in return.

You are a child.

I've put valid points forward and once again you have tried to debase a discussion that people should be having with your arrogance and abusiveness.

You have given no solutions, no other way out of it other than close the nursing homes. You're the child here

I have given what I believe we should have done many times. We should be living with reasonable restrictions. For me lockdowns have too many wide ranging and long term problems associated with them. I've outlined those problems, I've substantiated them and rather than discuss them - you casually dismissed them and then when they were backed up with facts you decide to hysterically claim I want people to die of Covid.

That's why I called you a child and you're parroting me on that in typical child like behaviour. Grow up.

We're gambling on vaccines being a silver bullet, the news coming out of Israel is worrying over half the population vaccinated with at least one dose and the virus is back on the rampage again.

There's no magic solution to it. People are going to die, be impacted on physically and mentally by both Covid and the response to quelling Covid and you want to suppress discussion on the impact of Covid. You want to carry that suppression out by being abusive and insulting.

What reasonable restrictions?

The same reasonable restrictions we lived with during last summer.

Limited capacity, hand hygiene, social distancing, masks etc.

Limited capacity? What's that entail?

We still hand hygiene and we still social distance and we still wear masks, we did it from March through the summer September and beyond. That was a mixture of lockdown no lockdowns and we still have big numbers.

How can we bring the hospital admissions down? The summer drop off came about being lockdown for 3 months when a lot of people were crossing the street to avoid people.

Are looking at the Sweden model as a limited lockdown life?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 28, 2021, 06:44:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 04:29:38 PM
Over 50% of the Israeli adult population now vaccinated with at least one dose and Covid is back on the rise there.

that means that half of adult and all children are not.

quote]I think there are big question marks on how effective this Covid vaccine is. Governments all across the Western World have thrown their lot in with vaccines and this is a worrying development.[/quote]

All the evidence suggests that these are very effective vaccines. Research continues on treatments and testing approaches as well. However, the vaccines will be most effective if numbers are dampened down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 06:46:57 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 28, 2021, 06:28:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 05:52:49 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 28, 2021, 05:50:19 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:36:06 PM
So lockdowns didn't reduce hospital admissions, deaths and cases?

Go ask the nuns in the Northern Kentucky monastery mentioned below of what they now think about lock downs and vaccines. The Coincidence Theorists are in full flow. 

"Earlier this month WKRC Local 12 in Kentucky reported how two nuns died and 28 out of the 35 nuns at a Northern Kentucky monastery tested positive for COVID just two days after receiving their first experimental mRNA COVID injections.

The leadership of the monastery, as well as the local media, were shocked at the "outbreak" of COVID and resulting two deaths, because the monastery was not open to visitors, and the residents had not traveled outside of the monastery.

If ever one wanted to find a totally locked down facility with no exposure to the outside world, a monastery is about as locked down as one can get.

Nevertheless, following what we have consistently seen in our news reports where a religious belief in vaccines prevents one from thinking logically and even considering the possibility that these experimental, non-FDA approved mRNA injections could have anything to do with the deaths or COVID outbreaks, the experimental injections they received just two days before were never even considered to be the cause of the deaths or illnesses".


It's well known by now by most people that the vaccine doesn't protect you until about day 21. This story doesn't ring true at all but if these nuns are showing symptoms 2 days after getting the vaccine it means they were probably infected 10-12 days before their vaccine. It's very hard to completely avoid contact with the outside world, I'm sure there were people arriving to supply food or to do maintenance work etc. All it takes is for one to get infected.

Well known?

Do you countenance that the vaccine could possibly have been something to do with the deaths or just a coincidence?

The vaccine doesn't give people COVID. That isn't my opinion, it's a fact. Therefore there is zero chance that the 28 nuns who've tested positive got it from the vaccine.

Wow.

That's an interesting insight to the rationale of a dogmatic person. How do you know that for fact? Do you realise that a lot of vaccines work by infecting people with a mild dose of a virus to trigger their immunity to it? The absolute level of ignorance you display is so scary here.

Now that's not what I asked either but thanks for confirming the level of logic and dogmatic thinking I'm dealing with.

What I asked was:

Do you countenance that the vaccine could possibly have been something to do with the deaths or just a coincidence?

Now, are you willing to answer that question or are you just going to answer questions that are not asked?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 06:49:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 28, 2021, 06:44:32 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 04:29:38 PM
Over 50% of the Israeli adult population now vaccinated with at least one dose and Covid is back on the rise there.

that means that half of adult and all children are not.

quote]I think there are big question marks on how effective this Covid vaccine is. Governments all across the Western World have thrown their lot in with vaccines and this is a worrying development.

All the evidence suggests that these are very effective vaccines. Research continues on treatments and testing approaches as well. However, the vaccines will be most effective if numbers are dampened down.
[/quote]

Incorrect. Circa 60% of the adult population have one vaccine dose, circa 40% of the adult population have 2 vaccine doses.

And yet the vaccine cases are on the rise again.

So that evidence is contradictory to the claims being emitted.

Are you saying that the rise in positive cases are down to children so? Or is that just a stab in the dark?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 06:57:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 06:30:38 PM

Limited capacity? What's that entail?

We still hand hygiene and we still social distance and we still wear masks, we did it from March through the summer September and beyond. That was a mixture of lockdown no lockdowns and we still have big numbers.

How can we bring the hospital admissions down? The summer drop off came about being lockdown for 3 months when a lot of people were crossing the street to avoid people.

Are looking at the Sweden model as a limited lockdown life?

Are you playing obtuse now? This is pathetic stuff from you but it's all we can accept.

Bars, restaurants, cinemas, sporting events, weddings, funerals have had limited capacities since Covid came in so why are you feigning ignorance now on what that means? It's clear how you want to debase every single thread on this forum into outright silliness and absurdity.

And more lies form you. Masks were not encouraged by governments in the west until I'd say Sept/Oct - they were only made mandatory at that time so once again when faced with the truth you want to throw complete lies and misinformation into the mix.

And once again you revert to Covid tunnel vision. After you casually dismissed the mental health, the wellbeing of children, domestic abuse victims from being considered in the action we take.

This should not be Covid, this should be about society and what benefits society the most, we need to consider all our citizen, their needs, the impacts on society both now and the future. You want to just consider the sole aspect of Covid though and you casually dismiss anything not directly related to it.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on February 28, 2021, 07:02:52 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:36:06 PM
So lockdowns didn't reduce hospital admissions, deaths and cases?

Go ask the nuns in the Northern Kentucky monastery mentioned below of what they now think about lock downs and vaccines. The Coincidence Theorists are in full flow. 

"Earlier this month WKRC Local 12 in Kentucky reported how two nuns died and 28 out of the 35 nuns at a Northern Kentucky monastery tested positive for COVID just two days after receiving their first experimental mRNA COVID injections.

The leadership of the monastery, as well as the local media, were shocked at the "outbreak" of COVID and resulting two deaths, because the monastery was not open to visitors, and the residents had not traveled outside of the monastery.

If ever one wanted to find a totally locked down facility with no exposure to the outside world, a monastery is about as locked down as one can get.

Nevertheless, following what we have consistently seen in our news reports where a religious belief in vaccines prevents one from thinking logically and even considering the possibility that these experimental, non-FDA approved mRNA injections could have anything to do with the deaths or COVID outbreaks, the experimental injections they received just two days before were never even considered to be the cause of the deaths or illnesses".

Remember when Mary told Joseph she was a virgin and "God" impregnated her?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:09:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 06:57:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 06:30:38 PM

Limited capacity? What's that entail?

We still hand hygiene and we still social distance and we still wear masks, we did it from March through the summer September and beyond. That was a mixture of lockdown no lockdowns and we still have big numbers.

How can we bring the hospital admissions down? The summer drop off came about being lockdown for 3 months when a lot of people were crossing the street to avoid people.

Are looking at the Sweden model as a limited lockdown life?

Are you playing obtuse now? This is pathetic stuff from you but it's all we can accept.

Bars, restaurants, cinemas, sporting events, weddings, funerals have had limited capacities since Covid came in so why are you feigning ignorance now on what that means? It's clear how you want to debase every single thread on this forum into outright silliness and absurdity.

And more lies form you. Masks were not encouraged by governments in the west until I'd say Sept/Oct - they were only made mandatory at that time so once again when faced with the truth you want to throw complete lies and misinformation into the mix.

And once again you revert to Covid tunnel vision. After you casually dismissed the mental health, the wellbeing of children, domestic abuse victims from being considered in the action we take.

This should not be Covid, this should be about society and what benefits society the most, we need to consider all our citizen, their needs, the impacts on society both now and the future. You want to just consider the sole aspect of Covid though and you casually dismiss anything not directly related to it.

So, cause I've low intelligence, are you saying that having those places open, restaurants bars cafes with limited capacity (2 meter rule) is ok?  Is that during that eat out to help out period that drove the cases through the roof? Dead on. Are you favouring the Swedish approach?

And I was back in work in June wearing a mask, and no one was allowed in unless they had one also
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 28, 2021, 07:26:12 PM
Almost a full year of Covid. What will we remember about it ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 07:44:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 28, 2021, 07:02:52 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 02:36:06 PM
So lockdowns didn't reduce hospital admissions, deaths and cases?

Go ask the nuns in the Northern Kentucky monastery mentioned below of what they now think about lock downs and vaccines. The Coincidence Theorists are in full flow. 

"Earlier this month WKRC Local 12 in Kentucky reported how two nuns died and 28 out of the 35 nuns at a Northern Kentucky monastery tested positive for COVID just two days after receiving their first experimental mRNA COVID injections.

The leadership of the monastery, as well as the local media, were shocked at the "outbreak" of COVID and resulting two deaths, because the monastery was not open to visitors, and the residents had not traveled outside of the monastery.

If ever one wanted to find a totally locked down facility with no exposure to the outside world, a monastery is about as locked down as one can get.

Nevertheless, following what we have consistently seen in our news reports where a religious belief in vaccines prevents one from thinking logically and even considering the possibility that these experimental, non-FDA approved mRNA injections could have anything to do with the deaths or COVID outbreaks, the experimental injections they received just two days before were never even considered to be the cause of the deaths or illnesses".

Remember when Mary told Joseph she was a virgin and "God" impregnated her?

So you figure that the nuns are lying, even the two dead ones and WKRC Local 12 etc fell for it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:55:08 PM
So have they caught Covid from the vaccine and died within two days of the jab? This experimental vaccine they got was it approved?

Was there any of them suffering with allergies?

Does this vaccine and the rest I suppose, give us Covid? If I was tested after getting the vaccine would I have tested positive?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:09:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 28, 2021, 07:26:12 PM
Almost a full year of Covid. What will we remember about it ?
We'll have to wait for Sky One's blockbuster nostalgia show "I ❤️️ 2020" to find that out

Should be a good one

Looking forward to what various TikTok and YouTube celebs have to say
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:13:58 PM
Another anti-vaxxer, just what this thread needs  ::)


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on February 28, 2021, 08:15:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 28, 2021, 07:26:12 PM
Almost a full year of Covid. What will we remember about it ?

That those at fox news are bigger gobshites than imagined.

(https://i.ibb.co/pf9yz6t/Screenshot-20210228-201239-2.png) (https://ibb.co/9bCtTmF)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:20:42 PM
"We will not see diseases like the coronavirus come here... isn't that refreshing when contrasting it with the awful presidency of President Obama?" — Kayleigh McEnany, 2/25/20

Obama was a hoor for letting in Coronavirus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:55:08 PM
So have they caught Covid from the vaccine and died within two days of the jab? This experimental vaccine they got was it approved?

Was there any of them suffering with allergies?

Does this vaccine and the rest I suppose, give us Covid? If I was tested after getting the vaccine would I have tested positive?

It is reported that nobody was allowed enter and the nuns never left the monastery therefore the monastery must be self sufficient. Not surprising when it comes to monasteries or even convents.

None fell ill before the vaccine, two days afterwards all hell broke loose.

No COVID 19 vaccine has ever been approved, it has only received Emergency Use Authorization, big difference. The FDA have not used the word "Approved", only the spin doctors have. In essence we are all guinea pigs.

As I already stated only Coincidence Theorists would claim without hesitation that the vaccine had nothing to do with the deaths and illnesses.

Regarding you getting COVID 19 after getting the jab, I have no idea as there are no long term trials and not proper short term trials either. In the two months or so since the vaccines came on board people have reacted differently. A friend of mine, 40ish and healthy tested positive 2 weeks after his first jab, got very sick, will not take the second one.   

After 6 weeks the CDC reported over 1,000 deaths and 15k adverse reactions due to the COVID 19 vaccines, again from their own website.  They fudge the numbers as the death totals went down the following week. And remember with VAERS only a minuscule percentage gets reported.

I doubt that there are not that many people in the world that do not suffer from some sort of allergy especially if they get up in age.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 08:44:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:09:17 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 06:57:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 06:30:38 PM

Limited capacity? What's that entail?

We still hand hygiene and we still social distance and we still wear masks, we did it from March through the summer September and beyond. That was a mixture of lockdown no lockdowns and we still have big numbers.

How can we bring the hospital admissions down? The summer drop off came about being lockdown for 3 months when a lot of people were crossing the street to avoid people.

Are looking at the Sweden model as a limited lockdown life?

Are you playing obtuse now? This is pathetic stuff from you but it's all we can accept.

Bars, restaurants, cinemas, sporting events, weddings, funerals have had limited capacities since Covid came in so why are you feigning ignorance now on what that means? It's clear how you want to debase every single thread on this forum into outright silliness and absurdity.

And more lies form you. Masks were not encouraged by governments in the west until I'd say Sept/Oct - they were only made mandatory at that time so once again when faced with the truth you want to throw complete lies and misinformation into the mix.

And once again you revert to Covid tunnel vision. After you casually dismissed the mental health, the wellbeing of children, domestic abuse victims from being considered in the action we take.

This should not be Covid, this should be about society and what benefits society the most, we need to consider all our citizen, their needs, the impacts on society both now and the future. You want to just consider the sole aspect of Covid though and you casually dismiss anything not directly related to it.

So, cause I've low intelligence, are you saying that having those places open, restaurants bars cafes with limited capacity (2 meter rule) is ok?  Is that during that eat out to help out period that drove the cases through the roof? Dead on. Are you favouring the Swedish approach?

And I was back in work in June wearing a mask, and no one was allowed in unless they had one also

Masks were only made mandatory after the summer, around Sept/Oct as far as I remember.

Yes. Those places being allowed open with reasonable restrictions is the way we should have gone.

The cases did not go made during the eat out period, they went mad during the Christmas period. How many cases were tied to pubs and restaurants? Answer me that.

In pubs and restaurants, it's regulated. Owners are responsible for enforcing laws and guidelines exist between distancing and capacity. The problem at Christmas was that people returned home in their droves for various places. I know of people who were flying in from Canada for Christmas. People were visiting their families at Christmas, it was a free for all, household visits was the main cause and that's a big problem.

But the biggest problem were the hospitals and the absolutely shambolic way in which they were set up. Why haven't we had specialists Covid hospitals in operation. Why are we allowing Covid infected patients and staff mix and infect some of the most vulnerable people? It's a failing and governmental and health executive level.

These are all issues.

Sweden didn't lockdown over Christmas? Did Sweden fare out any worse than other European countries that had lockdowns over Christmas? Finland didn't lockdown over Christmas, how did the Finns fare? Covid cases and deaths have dropped rapidly in India, they haven't had lockdowns since last summer.

So where's the correlation of effective lockdowns there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:55:08 PM
So have they caught Covid from the vaccine and died within two days of the jab? This experimental vaccine they got was it approved?

Was there any of them suffering with allergies?

Does this vaccine and the rest I suppose, give us Covid? If I was tested after getting the vaccine would I have tested positive?

It is reported that nobody was allowed enter and the nuns never left the monastery therefore the monastery must be self sufficient. Not surprising when it comes to monasteries or even convents.

None fell ill before the vaccine, two days afterwards all hell broke loose.

No COVID 19 vaccine has ever been approved, it has only received Emergency Use Authorization, big difference. The FDA have not used the word "Approved", only the spin doctors have. In essence we are all guinea pigs.

As I already stated only Coincidence Theorists would claim without hesitation that the vaccine had nothing to do with the deaths and illnesses.

Regarding you getting COVID 19 after getting the jab, I have no idea as there are no long term trials and not proper short term trials either. In the two months or so since the vaccines came on board people have reacted differently. A friend of mine, 40ish and healthy tested positive 2 weeks after his first jab, got very sick, will not take the second one.   

After 6 weeks the CDC reported over 1,000 deaths and 15k adverse reactions due to the COVID 19 vaccines, again from their own website.  They fudge the numbers as the death totals went down the following week. And remember with VAERS only a minuscule percentage gets reported.

I doubt that there are not that many people in the world that do not suffer from some sort of allergy especially if they get up in age.
So, to clarify, you're blaming the vaccine for the deaths, yes?

Here's a mad thought, but have you considered Covid might have been to blame?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 08:49:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:13:58 PM
Another anti-vaxxer, just what this thread needs  ::)

People who have reservations about a vaccine churned out in a year are not neccessarily anti-vaxxers.

Once again, you are trying to blur the lines and misrepresent people.

People should be allowed make conscienceable decisions on whether or not the vaccine is worthwhile taking.

If you're under 40 and fit and healthy, I don't see an upside. The danger of the virus is so, so minimal to that demograph and there is no hard evidence that suggests the vaccine stops you from contracting and transmitting the virus.

You seem to want to force or coerce people into taking an injection that probably doesn't serve any purpose for u40s, that we have no real evidence of what the impacts and effects of it are. That's totalitarianism.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 08:50:27 PM
I'm not saying the restaurants or pubs created the problem but the spikes were there after the restrictions were relaxed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 08:52:38 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:55:08 PM
So have they caught Covid from the vaccine and died within two days of the jab? This experimental vaccine they got was it approved?

Was there any of them suffering with allergies?

Does this vaccine and the rest I suppose, give us Covid? If I was tested after getting the vaccine would I have tested positive?

It is reported that nobody was allowed enter and the nuns never left the monastery therefore the monastery must be self sufficient. Not surprising when it comes to monasteries or even convents.

None fell ill before the vaccine, two days afterwards all hell broke loose.

No COVID 19 vaccine has ever been approved, it has only received Emergency Use Authorization, big difference. The FDA have not used the word "Approved", only the spin doctors have. In essence we are all guinea pigs.

As I already stated only Coincidence Theorists would claim without hesitation that the vaccine had nothing to do with the deaths and illnesses.

Regarding you getting COVID 19 after getting the jab, I have no idea as there are no long term trials and not proper short term trials either. In the two months or so since the vaccines came on board people have reacted differently. A friend of mine, 40ish and healthy tested positive 2 weeks after his first jab, got very sick, will not take the second one.   

After 6 weeks the CDC reported over 1,000 deaths and 15k adverse reactions due to the COVID 19 vaccines, again from their own website.  They fudge the numbers as the death totals went down the following week. And remember with VAERS only a minuscule percentage gets reported.

I doubt that there are not that many people in the world that do not suffer from some sort of allergy especially if they get up in age.
So, to clarify, you're blaming the vaccine for the deaths, yes?

Here's a mad thought, but have you considered Covid might have been to blame?

Here's a mad thought.

Maybe it was the vaccine. We have seen it in Norway.

Of course when people die suddenly after the vaccine it's because they were elderly and frail and their health was poor.

But when it's covid, their age and health are of no interest.

Hypocrisy 101. Vintage Sid.

I don't know what it was but it's interesting to see that once again, you won't countenance any argument that goes against what you think. Dogmatic as always. The fact that you want to completely discount a correlating factor to the deaths without any questioning is very telling.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:55:08 PM
So have they caught Covid from the vaccine and died within two days of the jab? This experimental vaccine they got was it approved?

Was there any of them suffering with allergies?

Does this vaccine and the rest I suppose, give us Covid? If I was tested after getting the vaccine would I have tested positive?

It is reported that nobody was allowed enter and the nuns never left the monastery therefore the monastery must be self sufficient. Not surprising when it comes to monasteries or even convents.

None fell ill before the vaccine, two days afterwards all hell broke loose.

No COVID 19 vaccine has ever been approved, it has only received Emergency Use Authorization, big difference. The FDA have not used the word "Approved", only the spin doctors have. In essence we are all guinea pigs.

As I already stated only Coincidence Theorists would claim without hesitation that the vaccine had nothing to do with the deaths and illnesses.

Regarding you getting COVID 19 after getting the jab, I have no idea as there are no long term trials and not proper short term trials either. In the two months or so since the vaccines came on board people have reacted differently. A friend of mine, 40ish and healthy tested positive 2 weeks after his first jab, got very sick, will not take the second one.   

After 6 weeks the CDC reported over 1,000 deaths and 15k adverse reactions due to the COVID 19 vaccines, again from their own website.  They fudge the numbers as the death totals went down the following week. And remember with VAERS only a minuscule percentage gets reported.

I doubt that there are not that many people in the world that do not suffer from some sort of allergy especially if they get up in age.
So, to clarify, you're blaming the vaccine for the deaths, yes?

Here's a mad thought, but have you considered Covid might have been to blame?

How did they contact COVID when they were in such a strict lockdown?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 08:55:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 08:50:27 PM
I'm not saying the restaurants or pubs created the problem but the spikes were there after the restrictions were relaxed

Seasonality and people going mad at Christmas.

Household visits were the problem, not pubs and restaurants.

Personally my view is that Christmas is a sham and it was terribly handled by government. We were not allowed to attend funerals, go to weddings, visit family and friends for most of the year so did we thrown that all away for a few days at Christmas. It was terrible messaging from government and pure populism from just about every party on this island. Not one of them had the guts to tell us to continue that sacrifice over Christmas.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:55:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 08:49:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:13:58 PM
Another anti-vaxxer, just what this thread needs  ::)

People who have reservations about a vaccine churned out in a year are not neccessarily anti-vaxxers.

Once again, you are trying to blur the lines and misrepresent people.

People should be allowed make conscienceable decisions on whether or not the vaccine is worthwhile taking.

If you're under 40 and fit and healthy, I don't see an upside. The danger of the virus is so, so minimal to that demograph and there is no hard evidence that suggests the vaccine stops you from contracting and transmitting the virus.

You seem to want to force or coerce people into taking an injection that probably doesn't serve any purpose for u40s, that we have no real evidence of what the impacts and effects of it are. That's totalitarianism.
More hysterical nonsense

People should be allowed make informed decisions as to what they consider you to be, and anti-vaxxer troll would fit the vast majority of people's definition of you
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:57:31 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:55:08 PM
So have they caught Covid from the vaccine and died within two days of the jab? This experimental vaccine they got was it approved?

Was there any of them suffering with allergies?

Does this vaccine and the rest I suppose, give us Covid? If I was tested after getting the vaccine would I have tested positive?

It is reported that nobody was allowed enter and the nuns never left the monastery therefore the monastery must be self sufficient. Not surprising when it comes to monasteries or even convents.

None fell ill before the vaccine, two days afterwards all hell broke loose.

No COVID 19 vaccine has ever been approved, it has only received Emergency Use Authorization, big difference. The FDA have not used the word "Approved", only the spin doctors have. In essence we are all guinea pigs.

As I already stated only Coincidence Theorists would claim without hesitation that the vaccine had nothing to do with the deaths and illnesses.

Regarding you getting COVID 19 after getting the jab, I have no idea as there are no long term trials and not proper short term trials either. In the two months or so since the vaccines came on board people have reacted differently. A friend of mine, 40ish and healthy tested positive 2 weeks after his first jab, got very sick, will not take the second one.   

After 6 weeks the CDC reported over 1,000 deaths and 15k adverse reactions due to the COVID 19 vaccines, again from their own website.  They fudge the numbers as the death totals went down the following week. And remember with VAERS only a minuscule percentage gets reported.

I doubt that there are not that many people in the world that do not suffer from some sort of allergy especially if they get up in age.
So, to clarify, you're blaming the vaccine for the deaths, yes?

Here's a mad thought, but have you considered Covid might have been to blame?

How did they contact COVID when they were in such a strict lockdown?
Answer the questions I asked you, please

Ireland is in a strict lockdown yet people continue to catch Covid, it's very easy to understand
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 28, 2021, 08:59:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:55:08 PM
So have they caught Covid from the vaccine and died within two days of the jab? This experimental vaccine they got was it approved?

Was there any of them suffering with allergies?

Does this vaccine and the rest I suppose, give us Covid? If I was tested after getting the vaccine would I have tested positive?

It is reported that nobody was allowed enter and the nuns never left the monastery therefore the monastery must be self sufficient. Not surprising when it comes to monasteries or even convents.

None fell ill before the vaccine, two days afterwards all hell broke loose.

No COVID 19 vaccine has ever been approved, it has only received Emergency Use Authorization, big difference. The FDA have not used the word "Approved", only the spin doctors have. In essence we are all guinea pigs.

As I already stated only Coincidence Theorists would claim without hesitation that the vaccine had nothing to do with the deaths and illnesses.

Regarding you getting COVID 19 after getting the jab, I have no idea as there are no long term trials and not proper short term trials either. In the two months or so since the vaccines came on board people have reacted differently. A friend of mine, 40ish and healthy tested positive 2 weeks after his first jab, got very sick, will not take the second one.   

After 6 weeks the CDC reported over 1,000 deaths and 15k adverse reactions due to the COVID 19 vaccines, again from their own website.  They fudge the numbers as the death totals went down the following week. And remember with VAERS only a minuscule percentage gets reported.

I doubt that there are not that many people in the world that do not suffer from some sort of allergy especially if they get up in age.
So, to clarify, you're blaming the vaccine for the deaths, yes?

Here's a mad thought, but have you considered Covid might have been to blame?
I see the rest of the nuns are still getting their 2nd dose shortly. I would imagine if they were blaming the vaccine they wouldn't be queuing up for No 2.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 09:01:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:55:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 08:49:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:13:58 PM
Another anti-vaxxer, just what this thread needs  ::)

People who have reservations about a vaccine churned out in a year are not neccessarily anti-vaxxers.

Once again, you are trying to blur the lines and misrepresent people.

People should be allowed make conscienceable decisions on whether or not the vaccine is worthwhile taking.

If you're under 40 and fit and healthy, I don't see an upside. The danger of the virus is so, so minimal to that demograph and there is no hard evidence that suggests the vaccine stops you from contracting and transmitting the virus.

You seem to want to force or coerce people into taking an injection that probably doesn't serve any purpose for u40s, that we have no real evidence of what the impacts and effects of it are. That's totalitarianism.
More hysterical nonsense

People should be allowed make informed decisions as to what they consider you to be, and anti-vaxxer troll would fit the vast majority of people's definition of you

Would it?

It might fit in their eyes but I think we can see a lot of those posters, just like you, are not able to articulate anything that rationalises the abuse and bile you all spit collectively at someone who does not follow your warped sense of thinking.

Are you actually capable of contributing anything beyond abuse and insults or is that all you're limited to these days?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 09:04:38 PM
But we had big numbers October November and December.... before xmas, I do blame house visits a lot but it's not seasonal as that would mean a very long season
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 28, 2021, 08:59:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:55:08 PM
So have they caught Covid from the vaccine and died within two days of the jab? This experimental vaccine they got was it approved?

Was there any of them suffering with allergies?

Does this vaccine and the rest I suppose, give us Covid? If I was tested after getting the vaccine would I have tested positive?

It is reported that nobody was allowed enter and the nuns never left the monastery therefore the monastery must be self sufficient. Not surprising when it comes to monasteries or even convents.

None fell ill before the vaccine, two days afterwards all hell broke loose.

No COVID 19 vaccine has ever been approved, it has only received Emergency Use Authorization, big difference. The FDA have not used the word "Approved", only the spin doctors have. In essence we are all guinea pigs.

As I already stated only Coincidence Theorists would claim without hesitation that the vaccine had nothing to do with the deaths and illnesses.

Regarding you getting COVID 19 after getting the jab, I have no idea as there are no long term trials and not proper short term trials either. In the two months or so since the vaccines came on board people have reacted differently. A friend of mine, 40ish and healthy tested positive 2 weeks after his first jab, got very sick, will not take the second one.   

After 6 weeks the CDC reported over 1,000 deaths and 15k adverse reactions due to the COVID 19 vaccines, again from their own website.  They fudge the numbers as the death totals went down the following week. And remember with VAERS only a minuscule percentage gets reported.

I doubt that there are not that many people in the world that do not suffer from some sort of allergy especially if they get up in age.
So, to clarify, you're blaming the vaccine for the deaths, yes?

Here's a mad thought, but have you considered Covid might have been to blame?
I see the rest of the nuns are still getting their 2nd dose shortly. I would imagine if they were blaming the vaccine they wouldn't be queuing up for No 2.
Nuns with the runs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 09:10:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 09:01:58 PM

Are you actually capable of contributing anything beyond abuse and insults

Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 09:01:58 PM
or is that all you're limited to these days?
These are questions a lot of people have been asking about you for a long time

Ad the answers are

i) No
ii) Yes

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 09:14:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 09:10:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 09:01:58 PM

Are you actually capable of contributing anything beyond abuse and insults

Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 09:01:58 PM
or is that all you're limited to these days?
These are questions a lot of people have been asking about you for a long time

Ad the answers are

i) No
ii) Yes

Typical Sid projection.

No substance - only insults and abuse to people who don't conform to your dogmatic and nonsensical rantings.

There was a period of posts a month or so back where I put together a very valid question that you couldn't answer.

It was a question on what the upside of the vaccine is for someone under 40.

Your response - the far right, Putin, Trump.

You're a broken record and you sound crazy. You're actually having a Gemma O'Doherty style meltdown, you have a lot in common with each other.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 09:15:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:57:31 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:55:08 PM
So have they caught Covid from the vaccine and died within two days of the jab? This experimental vaccine they got was it approved?

Was there any of them suffering with allergies?

Does this vaccine and the rest I suppose, give us Covid? If I was tested after getting the vaccine would I have tested positive?

It is reported that nobody was allowed enter and the nuns never left the monastery therefore the monastery must be self sufficient. Not surprising when it comes to monasteries or even convents.

None fell ill before the vaccine, two days afterwards all hell broke loose.

No COVID 19 vaccine has ever been approved, it has only received Emergency Use Authorization, big difference. The FDA have not used the word "Approved", only the spin doctors have. In essence we are all guinea pigs.

As I already stated only Coincidence Theorists would claim without hesitation that the vaccine had nothing to do with the deaths and illnesses.

Regarding you getting COVID 19 after getting the jab, I have no idea as there are no long term trials and not proper short term trials either. In the two months or so since the vaccines came on board people have reacted differently. A friend of mine, 40ish and healthy tested positive 2 weeks after his first jab, got very sick, will not take the second one.   

After 6 weeks the CDC reported over 1,000 deaths and 15k adverse reactions due to the COVID 19 vaccines, again from their own website.  They fudge the numbers as the death totals went down the following week. And remember with VAERS only a minuscule percentage gets reported.

I doubt that there are not that many people in the world that do not suffer from some sort of allergy especially if they get up in age.
So, to clarify, you're blaming the vaccine for the deaths, yes?

Here's a mad thought, but have you considered Covid might have been to blame?

How did they contact COVID when they were in such a strict lockdown?
Answer the questions I asked you, please

Ireland is in a strict lockdown yet people continue to catch Covid, it's very easy to understand

I'm not a Coincidence Theorist therefore it is highly probable that the untested vaccine caused the damage. Check out VAERS to see the mounting deaths and permanent injuries those vaccines have caused.

So Ireland is adhering to the very same lockdown restrictions as the monastery? Not happening, you just make stuff up as you go along.

So you answer my question. If nobody entered the monastery and nobody left how did the nuns contact COVID? They also did not do their usual prayer groups and adhered to all restrictions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 09:19:14 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 09:15:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:57:31 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:55:08 PM
So have they caught Covid from the vaccine and died within two days of the jab? This experimental vaccine they got was it approved?

Was there any of them suffering with allergies?

Does this vaccine and the rest I suppose, give us Covid? If I was tested after getting the vaccine would I have tested positive?

It is reported that nobody was allowed enter and the nuns never left the monastery therefore the monastery must be self sufficient. Not surprising when it comes to monasteries or even convents.

None fell ill before the vaccine, two days afterwards all hell broke loose.

No COVID 19 vaccine has ever been approved, it has only received Emergency Use Authorization, big difference. The FDA have not used the word "Approved", only the spin doctors have. In essence we are all guinea pigs.

As I already stated only Coincidence Theorists would claim without hesitation that the vaccine had nothing to do with the deaths and illnesses.

Regarding you getting COVID 19 after getting the jab, I have no idea as there are no long term trials and not proper short term trials either. In the two months or so since the vaccines came on board people have reacted differently. A friend of mine, 40ish and healthy tested positive 2 weeks after his first jab, got very sick, will not take the second one.   

After 6 weeks the CDC reported over 1,000 deaths and 15k adverse reactions due to the COVID 19 vaccines, again from their own website.  They fudge the numbers as the death totals went down the following week. And remember with VAERS only a minuscule percentage gets reported.

I doubt that there are not that many people in the world that do not suffer from some sort of allergy especially if they get up in age.
So, to clarify, you're blaming the vaccine for the deaths, yes?

Here's a mad thought, but have you considered Covid might have been to blame?

How did they contact COVID when they were in such a strict lockdown?
Answer the questions I asked you, please

Ireland is in a strict lockdown yet people continue to catch Covid, it's very easy to understand

I'm not a Coincidence Theorist therefore it is highly probable that the untested vaccine caused the damage. Check out VAERS to see the mounting deaths and permanent injuries those vaccines have caused.

So Ireland is adhering to the very same lockdown restrictions as the monastery? Not happening, you just make stuff up as you go along.

So you answer my question. If nobody entered the monastery and nobody left how did the nuns contact COVID? They also did not do their usual prayer groups and adhered to all restrictions.
Good grief

This forum sure does attract some prize tulips
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 09:19:33 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 28, 2021, 08:59:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:55:08 PM
So have they caught Covid from the vaccine and died within two days of the jab? This experimental vaccine they got was it approved?

Was there any of them suffering with allergies?

Does this vaccine and the rest I suppose, give us Covid? If I was tested after getting the vaccine would I have tested positive?

It is reported that nobody was allowed enter and the nuns never left the monastery therefore the monastery must be self sufficient. Not surprising when it comes to monasteries or even convents.

None fell ill before the vaccine, two days afterwards all hell broke loose.

No COVID 19 vaccine has ever been approved, it has only received Emergency Use Authorization, big difference. The FDA have not used the word "Approved", only the spin doctors have. In essence we are all guinea pigs.

As I already stated only Coincidence Theorists would claim without hesitation that the vaccine had nothing to do with the deaths and illnesses.

Regarding you getting COVID 19 after getting the jab, I have no idea as there are no long term trials and not proper short term trials either. In the two months or so since the vaccines came on board people have reacted differently. A friend of mine, 40ish and healthy tested positive 2 weeks after his first jab, got very sick, will not take the second one.   

After 6 weeks the CDC reported over 1,000 deaths and 15k adverse reactions due to the COVID 19 vaccines, again from their own website.  They fudge the numbers as the death totals went down the following week. And remember with VAERS only a minuscule percentage gets reported.

I doubt that there are not that many people in the world that do not suffer from some sort of allergy especially if they get up in age.
So, to clarify, you're blaming the vaccine for the deaths, yes?

Here's a mad thought, but have you considered Covid might have been to blame?
I see the rest of the nuns are still getting their 2nd dose shortly. I would imagine if they were blaming the vaccine they wouldn't be queuing up for No 2.

Obviously they are being duped just like you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 09:20:33 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 09:19:33 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 28, 2021, 08:59:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:55:08 PM
So have they caught Covid from the vaccine and died within two days of the jab? This experimental vaccine they got was it approved?

Was there any of them suffering with allergies?

Does this vaccine and the rest I suppose, give us Covid? If I was tested after getting the vaccine would I have tested positive?

It is reported that nobody was allowed enter and the nuns never left the monastery therefore the monastery must be self sufficient. Not surprising when it comes to monasteries or even convents.

None fell ill before the vaccine, two days afterwards all hell broke loose.

No COVID 19 vaccine has ever been approved, it has only received Emergency Use Authorization, big difference. The FDA have not used the word "Approved", only the spin doctors have. In essence we are all guinea pigs.

As I already stated only Coincidence Theorists would claim without hesitation that the vaccine had nothing to do with the deaths and illnesses.

Regarding you getting COVID 19 after getting the jab, I have no idea as there are no long term trials and not proper short term trials either. In the two months or so since the vaccines came on board people have reacted differently. A friend of mine, 40ish and healthy tested positive 2 weeks after his first jab, got very sick, will not take the second one.   

After 6 weeks the CDC reported over 1,000 deaths and 15k adverse reactions due to the COVID 19 vaccines, again from their own website.  They fudge the numbers as the death totals went down the following week. And remember with VAERS only a minuscule percentage gets reported.

I doubt that there are not that many people in the world that do not suffer from some sort of allergy especially if they get up in age.
So, to clarify, you're blaming the vaccine for the deaths, yes?

Here's a mad thought, but have you considered Covid might have been to blame?
I see the rest of the nuns are still getting their 2nd dose shortly. I would imagine if they were blaming the vaccine they wouldn't be queuing up for No 2.

Obviously they are being duped just like you.
I guess they just haven't been red pilled yet

They haven't awoken to the great awakening
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 09:20:37 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 09:19:14 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 09:15:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:57:31 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:55:08 PM
So have they caught Covid from the vaccine and died within two days of the jab? This experimental vaccine they got was it approved?

Was there any of them suffering with allergies?

Does this vaccine and the rest I suppose, give us Covid? If I was tested after getting the vaccine would I have tested positive?

It is reported that nobody was allowed enter and the nuns never left the monastery therefore the monastery must be self sufficient. Not surprising when it comes to monasteries or even convents.

None fell ill before the vaccine, two days afterwards all hell broke loose.

No COVID 19 vaccine has ever been approved, it has only received Emergency Use Authorization, big difference. The FDA have not used the word "Approved", only the spin doctors have. In essence we are all guinea pigs.

As I already stated only Coincidence Theorists would claim without hesitation that the vaccine had nothing to do with the deaths and illnesses.

Regarding you getting COVID 19 after getting the jab, I have no idea as there are no long term trials and not proper short term trials either. In the two months or so since the vaccines came on board people have reacted differently. A friend of mine, 40ish and healthy tested positive 2 weeks after his first jab, got very sick, will not take the second one.   

After 6 weeks the CDC reported over 1,000 deaths and 15k adverse reactions due to the COVID 19 vaccines, again from their own website.  They fudge the numbers as the death totals went down the following week. And remember with VAERS only a minuscule percentage gets reported.

I doubt that there are not that many people in the world that do not suffer from some sort of allergy especially if they get up in age.
So, to clarify, you're blaming the vaccine for the deaths, yes?

Here's a mad thought, but have you considered Covid might have been to blame?

How did they contact COVID when they were in such a strict lockdown?
Answer the questions I asked you, please

Ireland is in a strict lockdown yet people continue to catch Covid, it's very easy to understand

I'm not a Coincidence Theorist therefore it is highly probable that the untested vaccine caused the damage. Check out VAERS to see the mounting deaths and permanent injuries those vaccines have caused.

So Ireland is adhering to the very same lockdown restrictions as the monastery? Not happening, you just make stuff up as you go along.

So you answer my question. If nobody entered the monastery and nobody left how did the nuns contact COVID? They also did not do their usual prayer groups and adhered to all restrictions.
Good grief

This forum sure does attract some prize tulips

Answer my question please.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 09:21:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 09:20:33 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 09:19:33 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 28, 2021, 08:59:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:55:08 PM
So have they caught Covid from the vaccine and died within two days of the jab? This experimental vaccine they got was it approved?

Was there any of them suffering with allergies?

Does this vaccine and the rest I suppose, give us Covid? If I was tested after getting the vaccine would I have tested positive?

It is reported that nobody was allowed enter and the nuns never left the monastery therefore the monastery must be self sufficient. Not surprising when it comes to monasteries or even convents.

None fell ill before the vaccine, two days afterwards all hell broke loose.

No COVID 19 vaccine has ever been approved, it has only received Emergency Use Authorization, big difference. The FDA have not used the word "Approved", only the spin doctors have. In essence we are all guinea pigs.

As I already stated only Coincidence Theorists would claim without hesitation that the vaccine had nothing to do with the deaths and illnesses.

Regarding you getting COVID 19 after getting the jab, I have no idea as there are no long term trials and not proper short term trials either. In the two months or so since the vaccines came on board people have reacted differently. A friend of mine, 40ish and healthy tested positive 2 weeks after his first jab, got very sick, will not take the second one.   

After 6 weeks the CDC reported over 1,000 deaths and 15k adverse reactions due to the COVID 19 vaccines, again from their own website.  They fudge the numbers as the death totals went down the following week. And remember with VAERS only a minuscule percentage gets reported.

I doubt that there are not that many people in the world that do not suffer from some sort of allergy especially if they get up in age.
So, to clarify, you're blaming the vaccine for the deaths, yes?

Here's a mad thought, but have you considered Covid might have been to blame?
I see the rest of the nuns are still getting their 2nd dose shortly. I would imagine if they were blaming the vaccine they wouldn't be queuing up for No 2.

Obviously they are being duped just like you.
I guess they just haven't been red pilled yet

They haven't awoken to the great awakening

No they are "woke" just like you
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 09:23:33 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 09:21:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 09:20:33 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 09:19:33 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 28, 2021, 08:59:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:55:08 PM
So have they caught Covid from the vaccine and died within two days of the jab? This experimental vaccine they got was it approved?

Was there any of them suffering with allergies?

Does this vaccine and the rest I suppose, give us Covid? If I was tested after getting the vaccine would I have tested positive?

It is reported that nobody was allowed enter and the nuns never left the monastery therefore the monastery must be self sufficient. Not surprising when it comes to monasteries or even convents.

None fell ill before the vaccine, two days afterwards all hell broke loose.

No COVID 19 vaccine has ever been approved, it has only received Emergency Use Authorization, big difference. The FDA have not used the word "Approved", only the spin doctors have. In essence we are all guinea pigs.

As I already stated only Coincidence Theorists would claim without hesitation that the vaccine had nothing to do with the deaths and illnesses.

Regarding you getting COVID 19 after getting the jab, I have no idea as there are no long term trials and not proper short term trials either. In the two months or so since the vaccines came on board people have reacted differently. A friend of mine, 40ish and healthy tested positive 2 weeks after his first jab, got very sick, will not take the second one.   

After 6 weeks the CDC reported over 1,000 deaths and 15k adverse reactions due to the COVID 19 vaccines, again from their own website.  They fudge the numbers as the death totals went down the following week. And remember with VAERS only a minuscule percentage gets reported.

I doubt that there are not that many people in the world that do not suffer from some sort of allergy especially if they get up in age.
So, to clarify, you're blaming the vaccine for the deaths, yes?

Here's a mad thought, but have you considered Covid might have been to blame?
I see the rest of the nuns are still getting their 2nd dose shortly. I would imagine if they were blaming the vaccine they wouldn't be queuing up for No 2.

Obviously they are being duped just like you.
I guess they just haven't been red pilled yet

They haven't awoken to the great awakening

No they are "woke" just like you
Are you red pilled, mate?

Have you awoken to the "Great Awakening"?

Fan of Andrew Wakefield, by any chance?  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 28, 2021, 09:25:29 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 09:15:14 PM
I'm not a Coincidence Theorist therefore it is highly probable that the untested vaccine caused the damage. Check out VAERS to see the mounting deaths and permanent injuries those vaccines have caused.

So Ireland is adhering to the very same lockdown restrictions as the monastery? Not happening, you just make stuff up as you go along.

So you answer my question. If nobody entered the monastery and nobody left how did the nuns contact COVID? They also did not do their usual prayer groups and adhered to all restrictions.

There have been many cases of Covid entering monasteries, because of course they receive deliveries, have people working there, have people leaving their to go to doctors and hospitals.
There have been 200m vaccines administered, there is no fundamental problem with them and if you are coming on here implying that we are eejits then I suggest you go elsewhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 09:26:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 09:23:33 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 09:21:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 09:20:33 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 09:19:33 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 28, 2021, 08:59:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:55:08 PM
So have they caught Covid from the vaccine and died within two days of the jab? This experimental vaccine they got was it approved?

Was there any of them suffering with allergies?

Does this vaccine and the rest I suppose, give us Covid? If I was tested after getting the vaccine would I have tested positive?

It is reported that nobody was allowed enter and the nuns never left the monastery therefore the monastery must be self sufficient. Not surprising when it comes to monasteries or even convents.

None fell ill before the vaccine, two days afterwards all hell broke loose.

No COVID 19 vaccine has ever been approved, it has only received Emergency Use Authorization, big difference. The FDA have not used the word "Approved", only the spin doctors have. In essence we are all guinea pigs.

As I already stated only Coincidence Theorists would claim without hesitation that the vaccine had nothing to do with the deaths and illnesses.

Regarding you getting COVID 19 after getting the jab, I have no idea as there are no long term trials and not proper short term trials either. In the two months or so since the vaccines came on board people have reacted differently. A friend of mine, 40ish and healthy tested positive 2 weeks after his first jab, got very sick, will not take the second one.   

After 6 weeks the CDC reported over 1,000 deaths and 15k adverse reactions due to the COVID 19 vaccines, again from their own website.  They fudge the numbers as the death totals went down the following week. And remember with VAERS only a minuscule percentage gets reported.

I doubt that there are not that many people in the world that do not suffer from some sort of allergy especially if they get up in age.
So, to clarify, you're blaming the vaccine for the deaths, yes?

Here's a mad thought, but have you considered Covid might have been to blame?
I see the rest of the nuns are still getting their 2nd dose shortly. I would imagine if they were blaming the vaccine they wouldn't be queuing up for No 2.

Obviously they are being duped just like you.
I guess they just haven't been red pilled yet

They haven't awoken to the great awakening

No they are "woke" just like you
Are you red pilled, mate?

Have you awoken to the "Great Awakening"?

Fan of Andrew Wakefield, by any chance?  ;D

Answer my question, otherwise I'm ignoring you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 09:27:47 PM
Oh please do ignore me

I get the feeling plenty of people are going to be ignoring you
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 09:28:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 28, 2021, 09:25:29 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 09:15:14 PM
I'm not a Coincidence Theorist therefore it is highly probable that the untested vaccine caused the damage. Check out VAERS to see the mounting deaths and permanent injuries those vaccines have caused.

So Ireland is adhering to the very same lockdown restrictions as the monastery? Not happening, you just make stuff up as you go along.

So you answer my question. If nobody entered the monastery and nobody left how did the nuns contact COVID? They also did not do their usual prayer groups and adhered to all restrictions.

There have been many cases of Covid entering monasteries, because of course they receive deliveries, have people working there, have people leaving their to go to doctors and hospitals.
There have been 200m vaccines administered, there is no fundamental problem with them and if you are coming on here implying that we are eejits then I suggest you go elsewhere.

No problems with them?

None?

Are you sticking with that statement?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 09:31:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 28, 2021, 09:25:29 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 09:15:14 PM
I'm not a Coincidence Theorist therefore it is highly probable that the untested vaccine caused the damage. Check out VAERS to see the mounting deaths and permanent injuries those vaccines have caused.

So Ireland is adhering to the very same lockdown restrictions as the monastery? Not happening, you just make stuff up as you go along.

So you answer my question. If nobody entered the monastery and nobody left how did the nuns contact COVID? They also did not do their usual prayer groups and adhered to all restrictions.

There have been many cases of Covid entering monasteries, because of course they receive deliveries, have people working there, have people leaving their to go to doctors and hospitals.
There have been 200m vaccines administered, there is no fundamental problem with them and if you are coming on here implying that we are eejits then I suggest you go elsewhere.

The monastery in question did not leave anybody in or out, I'm not referring to other monasteries. Also CDC's own statistics which you will not get on CNN and FOX or the Irish Independent.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 09:39:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 28, 2021, 09:25:29 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 09:15:14 PM
I'm not a Coincidence Theorist therefore it is highly probable that the untested vaccine caused the damage. Check out VAERS to see the mounting deaths and permanent injuries those vaccines have caused.

So Ireland is adhering to the very same lockdown restrictions as the monastery? Not happening, you just make stuff up as you go along.

So you answer my question. If nobody entered the monastery and nobody left how did the nuns contact COVID? They also did not do their usual prayer groups and adhered to all restrictions.

There have been many cases of Covid entering monasteries, because of course they receive deliveries, have people working there, have people leaving their to go to doctors and hospitals.
There have been 200m vaccines administered, there is no fundamental problem with them and if you are coming on here implying that we are eejits then I suggest you go elsewhere.
This Corkscrew poster appears to be a very special breed of anti-vaxxer

Most anti-vaxxers draw the line at claiming a vaccine for a particular disease is actually infecting the recipients with that disease, because they have to at least try and come across as if they're earnest

Not this one

This one has one full giant lizard
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 28, 2021, 10:03:39 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 09:19:33 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 28, 2021, 08:59:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:48:27 PM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2021, 07:55:08 PM
So have they caught Covid from the vaccine and died within two days of the jab? This experimental vaccine they got was it approved?

Was there any of them suffering with allergies?

Does this vaccine and the rest I suppose, give us Covid? If I was tested after getting the vaccine would I have tested positive?

It is reported that nobody was allowed enter and the nuns never left the monastery therefore the monastery must be self sufficient. Not surprising when it comes to monasteries or even convents.

None fell ill before the vaccine, two days afterwards all hell broke loose.

No COVID 19 vaccine has ever been approved, it has only received Emergency Use Authorization, big difference. The FDA have not used the word "Approved", only the spin doctors have. In essence we are all guinea pigs.

As I already stated only Coincidence Theorists would claim without hesitation that the vaccine had nothing to do with the deaths and illnesses.

Regarding you getting COVID 19 after getting the jab, I have no idea as there are no long term trials and not proper short term trials either. In the two months or so since the vaccines came on board people have reacted differently. A friend of mine, 40ish and healthy tested positive 2 weeks after his first jab, got very sick, will not take the second one.   

After 6 weeks the CDC reported over 1,000 deaths and 15k adverse reactions due to the COVID 19 vaccines, again from their own website.  They fudge the numbers as the death totals went down the following week. And remember with VAERS only a minuscule percentage gets reported.

I doubt that there are not that many people in the world that do not suffer from some sort of allergy especially if they get up in age.
So, to clarify, you're blaming the vaccine for the deaths, yes?

Here's a mad thought, but have you considered Covid might have been to blame?
I see the rest of the nuns are still getting their 2nd dose shortly. I would imagine if they were blaming the vaccine they wouldn't be queuing up for No 2.

Obviously they are being duped just like you.
Obviously.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on February 28, 2021, 10:04:47 PM
The screw seems to have had a major  outbreak of posting today.
::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 10:07:41 PM
The most boring and inane poster on the forum has arrived to tell us all who he is ignoring AGAIN.

Would someone please give him the bit of attention he so desperately craves.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 11:08:19 PM
UK Releases COVID Vaccine Deaths and Side Effects

https://mondestuff.com/world-news/uk-government-releases-shocking-report-on-covid-vaccine-side-effects/ (https://mondestuff.com/world-news/uk-government-releases-shocking-report-on-covid-vaccine-side-effects/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 01, 2021, 12:49:52 AM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 11:08:19 PM
UK Releases COVID Vaccine Deaths and Side Effects

https://mondestuff.com/world-news/uk-government-releases-shocking-report-on-covid-vaccine-side-effects/ (https://mondestuff.com/world-news/uk-government-releases-shocking-report-on-covid-vaccine-side-effects/)

0.3% of the sickest and oldest people in the country had a reaction? You'd have more reaction from eating nuts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Corkscrew on March 01, 2021, 02:52:42 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 01, 2021, 12:49:52 AM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 11:08:19 PM
UK Releases COVID Vaccine Deaths and Side Effects

https://mondestuff.com/world-news/uk-government-releases-shocking-report-on-covid-vaccine-side-effects/ (https://mondestuff.com/world-news/uk-government-releases-shocking-report-on-covid-vaccine-side-effects/)

0.3% of the sickest and oldest people in the country had a reaction? You'd have more reaction from eating nuts.

How many people die, go blind and get Bells Palsy etc., etc., from eating nuts?  Where does it state they were all old people. It's happening to young people all over the world.  I would be here until St Patrick's Day posting all the articles not reported by main stream media.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 01, 2021, 07:31:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:55:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 08:49:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:13:58 PM
Another anti-vaxxer, just what this thread needs  ::)

People who have reservations about a vaccine churned out in a year are not neccessarily anti-vaxxers.

Once again, you are trying to blur the lines and misrepresent people.

People should be allowed make conscienceable decisions on whether or not the vaccine is worthwhile taking.

If you're under 40 and fit and healthy, I don't see an upside. The danger of the virus is so, so minimal to that demograph and there is no hard evidence that suggests the vaccine stops you from contracting and transmitting the virus.

You seem to want to force or coerce people into taking an injection that probably doesn't serve any purpose for u40s, that we have no real evidence of what the impacts and effects of it are. That's totalitarianism.
More hysterical nonsense

People should be allowed make informed decisions as to what they consider you to be, and anti-vaxxer troll would fit the vast majority of people's definition of you

I have him on ignore. But seen this.



The upside, is that you don't leave your body open to being a gestation pool for virus mutation that could cause vaccine escape, putting the higher risk groups back in danger.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 01, 2021, 08:17:55 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 01, 2021, 07:31:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:55:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 08:49:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:13:58 PM
Another anti-vaxxer, just what this thread needs  ::)

People who have reservations about a vaccine churned out in a year are not neccessarily anti-vaxxers.

Once again, you are trying to blur the lines and misrepresent people.

People should be allowed make conscienceable decisions on whether or not the vaccine is worthwhile taking.

If you're under 40 and fit and healthy, I don't see an upside. The danger of the virus is so, so minimal to that demograph and there is no hard evidence that suggests the vaccine stops you from contracting and transmitting the virus.

You seem to want to force or coerce people into taking an injection that probably doesn't serve any purpose for u40s, that we have no real evidence of what the impacts and effects of it are. That's totalitarianism.
More hysterical nonsense

People should be allowed make informed decisions as to what they consider you to be, and anti-vaxxer troll would fit the vast majority of people's definition of you

I have him on ignore. But seen this.



The upside, is that you don't leave your body open to being a gestation pool for virus mutation that could cause vaccine escape, putting the higher risk groups back in danger.

Back to argue proven data are we? There have been about 6 deaths of under 40s in 60k cases in the past year. So if you want to argue the data on that then be my guest.

Now you seem to be inferring that the vaccine stops mutations, that they stop contraction and transmission which is clearly now through. So why are you now coming on here making claims you know full we'll are false.

The only upside of the vaccine is that it stops people getting severe symptoms. This is not a worry for fit and healthy u40s. That is backed up by the data. More under 40s died on the road last year than from Covid at a rate of multiples. Probably as much as 6/7.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 01, 2021, 08:20:41 AM
Quote from: Corkscrew on March 01, 2021, 02:52:42 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 01, 2021, 12:49:52 AM
Quote from: Corkscrew on February 28, 2021, 11:08:19 PM
UK Releases COVID Vaccine Deaths and Side Effects

https://mondestuff.com/world-news/uk-government-releases-shocking-report-on-covid-vaccine-side-effects/ (https://mondestuff.com/world-news/uk-government-releases-shocking-report-on-covid-vaccine-side-effects/)

0.3% of the sickest and oldest people in the country had a reaction? You'd have more reaction from eating nuts.

How many people die, go blind and get Bells Palsy etc., etc., from eating nuts?  Where does it state they were all old people. It's happening to young people all over the world.  I would be here until St Patrick's Day posting all the articles not reported by main stream media.
I dare say you would

There's a lot of stuff on the internet
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 01, 2021, 08:21:55 AM
The far right seem to be a very liberal and tolerant grouping these days, attracting and accepting members from all creeds and races.

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/optimized/3X/1/e/1ef5a1f57e25165fdf314ae55eb51421cd5d7307_2_548x1000.jpeg)

Might not fit in too well with the agenda of the forum's main tinfoil hat wearer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 01, 2021, 08:24:22 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 01, 2021, 07:31:31 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:55:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on February 28, 2021, 08:49:14 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 28, 2021, 08:13:58 PM
Another anti-vaxxer, just what this thread needs  ::)

People who have reservations about a vaccine churned out in a year are not neccessarily anti-vaxxers.

Once again, you are trying to blur the lines and misrepresent people.

People should be allowed make conscienceable decisions on whether or not the vaccine is worthwhile taking.

If you're under 40 and fit and healthy, I don't see an upside. The danger of the virus is so, so minimal to that demograph and there is no hard evidence that suggests the vaccine stops you from contracting and transmitting the virus.

You seem to want to force or coerce people into taking an injection that probably doesn't serve any purpose for u40s, that we have no real evidence of what the impacts and effects of it are. That's totalitarianism.
More hysterical nonsense

People should be allowed make informed decisions as to what they consider you to be, and anti-vaxxer troll would fit the vast majority of people's definition of you

I have him on ignore. But seen this.



The upside, is that you don't leave your body open to being a gestation pool for virus mutation that could cause vaccine escape, putting the higher risk groups back in danger.
Angel Delight doesn't understand the concept of thinking about the well being of others

Even when that involves benefitting one's own well being
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 01, 2021, 08:25:46 AM
"Peaceful protest"  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 01, 2021, 08:35:43 AM
Sid doesn't like the post above.

I suppose it hurts him to see the 'far right' attracting people from all ethnicities and races.

He will probably try and say now that I support those who took part on Saturday. As I repeated many times - I don't. They were wrong and the people who participated are idiots but they would stop him from the misinformation and outright lies he pedals on here on a daily basis.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 01, 2021, 08:43:02 AM
Easy to see Qangelo doesn't work  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 01, 2021, 08:45:58 AM
Another moronic contribution from Mr Tinfoil Hat.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 01, 2021, 08:47:49 AM
Imagine a Covid-denying anti-vaxxer accusing anybody else of being "Mr. Tinfoil Hat"  ;D ;D ;D

Did somebody say "lack of self awareness"?  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 01, 2021, 08:55:10 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 01, 2021, 08:47:49 AM
Imagine a Covid-denying anti-vaxxer accusing anybody else of being "Mr. Tinfoil Hat"  ;D ;D ;D

Did somebody say "lack of self awareness"?  ;D

I don't deny Covid.

I'm not anti-vaxx.

Carry on gaslighting though. Bullies like you will end up alienating everyone around them in the end. Maybe there the root cause of the hate you spew.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 01, 2021, 09:09:24 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 01, 2021, 08:55:10 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 01, 2021, 08:47:49 AM
Imagine a Covid-denying anti-vaxxer accusing anybody else of being "Mr. Tinfoil Hat"  ;D ;D ;D

Did somebody say "lack of self awareness"?  ;D

I don't deny Covid.

I'm not anti-vaxx.

Carry on gaslighting though. Bullies like you will end up alienating everyone around them in the end. Maybe that is the root cause of the hate you spew.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 01, 2021, 09:48:57 AM
The hugely anticipated Stormont "roadmap" is being discussed this morning.

It was meant to be announced today. How far into the week will we go before a breakdown in the talks?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 01, 2021, 03:40:17 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 28, 2021, 05:50:19 PM

It's well known by now by most people that the vaccine doesn't protect you until about day 21.

Looks like more absolute horseshit from Lenny.

https://twitter.com/peterdonaghy/status/1366403400615796741

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/0/2/02af99790c9b060fb1596b1a0c581783657c20fe.jpeg)

Looks like the UK's gamble has played off very effectively in their vaccine rollout.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on March 01, 2021, 05:25:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 01, 2021, 03:40:17 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 28, 2021, 05:50:19 PM

It's well known by now by most people that the vaccine doesn't protect you until about day 21.

Looks like more absolute horseshit from Lenny.

https://twitter.com/peterdonaghy/status/1366403400615796741

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/0/2/02af99790c9b060fb1596b1a0c581783657c20fe.jpeg)

Looks like the UK's gamble has played off very effectively in their vaccine rollout.

I'd be delighted to be proved wrong if this is true. As always I'll wait until the data is peer reviewed and published in a reputable science publication. He does say it's very surprising which indicates it doesn't really fit with previously observed data. Great news if it's verified though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 01, 2021, 05:31:11 PM
The Qangelo narrative

"The vaccine is effective - so there's no reason for anybody to take it"  ???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 01, 2021, 06:32:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 01, 2021, 05:31:11 PM
The Qangelo narrative

"The vaccine is effective - so there's no reason for anybody to take it"  ???

We don't know whether the vaccine is effective or not yet.

Mixed signals, look at recent happenings in Israel for example, scientists still chasing their tails.

Hopefully it is successful though and hopefully it is safe but once again you're delivering a false narrative to suppress healthy debate and discourse.

It's unbelievably ironic that spend your time on hearing passing off banalities about the far right and Trump when you basically parrot the exact same Trumpian tactics of childish insults, misinformation, suppression of democracy and political discourse.

You want to set a match to world. It's very odd behaviour.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 01, 2021, 09:42:00 PM
So what will be announced tomorrow
Watch them follow Boris give it take a week
But it will run alongside them
No bold decisions made
They couldn't even make the Monday deadline
Imagine in your workplace you were to deliver a presentation for the Monday and decided to put it off until the Tuesday 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 01, 2021, 11:23:16 PM
The vaccine was hailed as the thing that would end all this.

We were told to hold firm for it, it's now arrived, it's been rolled out.

But now the narrative seems to have changed. Masks are here to stay, social distancing is here to stay, vaccine passports are coming in, totalitarianism is coming into the play.

If and when the vaccine rollout concludes in late summer/early autumn and we cannot return to normal then the vaccine has been a complete and utter failure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2021, 11:25:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 01, 2021, 11:23:16 PM
The vaccine was hailed as the thing that would end all this.

We were told to hold firm for it, it's now arrived, it's been rolled out.

But now the narrative seems to have changed. Masks are here to stay, social distancing is here to stay, vaccine passports are coming in, totalitarianism is coming into the play.

If and when the vaccine rollout concludes in late summer/early autumn and we cannot return to normal then the vaccine has been a complete and utter failure.

What percentage have had the second jab?

If deaths and hospital admissions return to normal will it be a failure?

Let's wait and see
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 01, 2021, 11:30:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2021, 11:25:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 01, 2021, 11:23:16 PM
The vaccine was hailed as the thing that would end all this.

We were told to hold firm for it, it's now arrived, it's been rolled out.

But now the narrative seems to have changed. Masks are here to stay, social distancing is here to stay, vaccine passports are coming in, totalitarianism is coming into the play.

If and when the vaccine rollout concludes in late summer/early autumn and we cannot return to normal then the vaccine has been a complete and utter failure.

What percentage have had the second jab?

If deaths and hospital admissions return to normal will it be a failure?

Let's wait and see

I'm more on about the messaging coming out. Check the WHO's statement today. If we have mass rollout of a vaccine and are still living in a restricted society afterwards then I would call the vaccine a failure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2021, 11:40:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 01, 2021, 11:30:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2021, 11:25:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 01, 2021, 11:23:16 PM
The vaccine was hailed as the thing that would end all this.

We were told to hold firm for it, it's now arrived, it's been rolled out.

But now the narrative seems to have changed. Masks are here to stay, social distancing is here to stay, vaccine passports are coming in, totalitarianism is coming into the play.

If and when the vaccine rollout concludes in late summer/early autumn and we cannot return to normal then the vaccine has been a complete and utter failure.

What percentage have had the second jab?

If deaths and hospital admissions return to normal will it be a failure?

Let's wait and see

I'm more on about the messaging coming out. Check the WHO's statement today. If we have mass rollout of a vaccine and are still living in a restricted society afterwards then I would call the vaccine a failure.

And I said let's wait and see, if only one jab has been administered and the second is then administered surely then we can assess its failure or success.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 01, 2021, 11:47:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2021, 11:40:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 01, 2021, 11:30:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2021, 11:25:25 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 01, 2021, 11:23:16 PM
The vaccine was hailed as the thing that would end all this.

We were told to hold firm for it, it's now arrived, it's been rolled out.

But now the narrative seems to have changed. Masks are here to stay, social distancing is here to stay, vaccine passports are coming in, totalitarianism is coming into the play.

If and when the vaccine rollout concludes in late summer/early autumn and we cannot return to normal then the vaccine has been a complete and utter failure.

What percentage have had the second jab?

If deaths and hospital admissions return to normal will it be a failure?

Let's wait and see

I'm more on about the messaging coming out. Check the WHO's statement today. If we have mass rollout of a vaccine and are still living in a restricted society afterwards then I would call the vaccine a failure.

And I said let's wait and see, if only one jab has been administered and the second is then administered surely then we can assess its failure or success.

We will wait and see but have you been listening to the messaging from Governments and the WHO. It's very worrying and it seems this vaccine will not return normality is what they are telling us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2021, 11:51:24 PM
I watch and listen to the news, it changes by the day and station you listen to, the 'experts' will give you any narrative you want to believe.

When I see hospital admissions go down and deaths are in line with yearly figures I'll not worry about the 'cases' as it won't affect the general public.

Life will go on. If anything can reduce unnecessary death it should be applauded
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 02, 2021, 12:01:09 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2021, 11:51:24 PM

Life will go on. If anything can reduce unnecessary death it should be applauded

Even if "anything" causes more problems than it solves.

The vaccine was meant to get us out of it. Thst was the pup we were sold last year. Now the messaging has changed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 02, 2021, 06:56:20 AM
Have to agree with Angelo on this one
We were sold that this vaccine would get us out of this
35% of adults done with 1 shot which by all accounts stops hospitalisation by 80% so it must stops deaths by 90 or so real life data to come out
The top 6 groups vaccinated which cause 90% of the deaths. Once top 9 done it stops 99%.
Top 9 should be completed in 3 weeks.
What's the reason then for any restrictions beyond the end of this month?


On a second note
With the massive crowds out on Saturday and Sunday all around the North we shoukd see numbers skyrocket from Thursday on. Keep a close eye on the cases
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2021, 07:34:31 AM
No bars restaurants cafes or shops are open, no home visits also, why would cases rocket? Unless when everyone was outside they all started to hug each other
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on March 02, 2021, 09:39:25 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 02, 2021, 06:56:20 AM
Have to agree with Angelo on this one
We were sold that this vaccine would get us out of this
35% of adults done with 1 shot which by all accounts stops hospitalisation by 80% so it must stops deaths by 90 or so real life data to come out
The top 6 groups vaccinated which cause 90% of the deaths. Once top 9 done it stops 99%.
Top 9 should be completed in 3 weeks.
What's the reason then for any restrictions beyond the end of this month?


On a second note
With the massive crowds out on Saturday and Sunday all around the North we shoukd see numbers skyrocket from Thursday on. Keep a close eye on the cases

Was the whole point of travel restrictions and keeping crowds away from beauty spots not to reduce the possibilty of road traffic accidents and other medical emergencies (heart attacks etc) draining the ambulance serivce which was being kept for Covid call outs?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on March 02, 2021, 10:26:33 AM
There is nearly a sense with some that they want they vaccine to fail, just so they can take the "told you so" position. Jumping on every crumb of potential bad news, ignoring the positive impact it having.

The vaccine is the only show in town, it failing at this time isn't worth considering. It will cause many more deaths and suffering, it's not hard to understand really.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 02, 2021, 10:36:21 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 01, 2021, 06:32:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 01, 2021, 05:31:11 PM
The Qangelo narrative

"The vaccine is effective - so there's no reason for anybody to take it"  ???

We don't know whether the vaccine is effective or not yet.

Mixed signals, look at recent happenings in Israel for example, scientists still chasing their tails.

Hopefully it is successful though and hopefully it is safe but once again you're delivering a false narrative to suppress healthy debate and discourse.

It's unbelievably ironic that spend your time on hearing passing off banalities about the far right and Trump when you basically parrot the exact same Trumpian tactics of childish insults, misinformation, suppression of democracy and political discourse.

You want to set a match to world. It's very odd behaviour.
The UK death rate is far lower now than in January
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: the goal was on on March 02, 2021, 10:46:40 AM
The plan released today will be a copy and paste job , that's for sure. All lip service..... have to be careful....we want this to be the last (heard that before)......vaccine roll out is going well....... new variants we have to be careful of (though we're keeping the airports open and have no quarantine of any note)  ....... businesses stay closed (but 100's can head into playparks at any time and paw all over the frames and slides with no sanitising in sight! .By the way lots of businesses have piped down some amount this past few months. Why because they are getting a ransom to what they would normally get in Jan and Feb. Cry cry cry in december but heads down now. Tax payer will front this bill shortly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 02, 2021, 10:54:48 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 02, 2021, 12:01:09 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2021, 11:51:24 PM

Life will go on. If anything can reduce unnecessary death it should be applauded

Even if "anything" causes more problems than it solves.

The vaccine was meant to get us out of it. Thst was the pup we were sold last year. Now the messaging has changed.

The WHO have been very clear on vaccines in that the entire world needs access to vaccines as soon as possible as if the poorer countries don't get the vaccines as well then it will mutate and maybe cause some vaccines to be worthless.

Mutations are always going to be with us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:03:07 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 01, 2021, 09:42:00 PM
So what will be announced tomorrow
Watch them follow Boris give it take a week
But it will run alongside them
No bold decisions made
They couldn't even make the Monday deadline
Imagine in your workplace you were to deliver a presentation for the Monday and decided to put it off until the Tuesday

Vote them out, jokers
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:19:51 AM
Quote from: Louther on March 02, 2021, 10:26:33 AM
There is nearly a sense with some that they want they vaccine to fail, just so they can take the "told you so" position. Jumping on every crumb of potential bad news, ignoring the positive impact it having.

The vaccine is the only show in town, it failing at this time isn't worth considering. It will cause many more deaths and suffering, it's not hard to understand really.
Ironically these are the same bozos who go on about mental health and "we need positivity"

They're not good faith contributors, they're trolls who have sad little lives

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 02, 2021, 11:32:33 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:19:51 AM
Quote from: Louther on March 02, 2021, 10:26:33 AM
There is nearly a sense with some that they want they vaccine to fail, just so they can take the "told you so" position. Jumping on every crumb of potential bad news, ignoring the positive impact it having.

The vaccine is the only show in town, it failing at this time isn't worth considering. It will cause many more deaths and suffering, it's not hard to understand really.
Ironically these are the same bozos who go on about mental health and "we need positivity"

They're not good faith contributors, they're trolls who have sad little lives



It's absolute f**king nonsense. Maintaining an open mind on any subject does not make someone willing for it to fail.

This is sadly reflective of the modern crusade to polarise anyone who doesn't adhere to your strict creed to the role of an enemy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:36:05 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 02, 2021, 11:32:33 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:19:51 AM
Quote from: Louther on March 02, 2021, 10:26:33 AM
There is nearly a sense with some that they want they vaccine to fail, just so they can take the "told you so" position. Jumping on every crumb of potential bad news, ignoring the positive impact it having.

The vaccine is the only show in town, it failing at this time isn't worth considering. It will cause many more deaths and suffering, it's not hard to understand really.
Ironically these are the same bozos who go on about mental health and "we need positivity"

They're not good faith contributors, they're trolls who have sad little lives



It's absolute f**king nonsense. Maintaining an open mind on any subject does not make someone willing for it to fail.

This is sadly reflective of the modern crusade to polarise anyone who doesn't adhere to your strict creed to the role of an enemy.
This post here is an actual example of political correctness gone mad

And pretty much every post by that poster follows the exact same turgid formula


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.
Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 02, 2021, 11:37:38 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.

Dunno, I'd like to see countries insist that you have been vaccinated before allowing you in. Can definitely see this with places like Oz and NZ. Quite possibly the EU as well. Tourist countries will mostly insist on it. To facilitate that then you'll need some sort of passport to prove you're vaccinated. The French insisted on testing all the lorry drivers and it's now par for the course. Things that seemed unbelievable just a year ago are now common place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:41:33 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 02, 2021, 11:37:38 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.

Dunno, I'd like to see countries insist that you have been vaccinated before allowing you in. Can definitely see this with places like Oz and NZ. Quite possibly the EU as well. Tourist countries will mostly insist on it. To facilitate that then you'll need some sort of passport to prove you're vaccinated. The French insisted on testing all the lorry drivers and it's now par for the course. Things that seemed unbelievable just a year ago are now common place.
The real function of vaccine passports should be in the internal economy, like Israel have now

No vaccine passport, no admission to gyms, pubs etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 02, 2021, 11:43:56 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.

There's already examples of it with Yellow fever etc. I'd be fairly sure that there will be a form of Vaccine passport in place over the summer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 02, 2021, 11:52:54 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 02, 2021, 11:43:56 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.

There's already examples of it with Yellow fever etc. I'd be fairly sure that there will be a form of Vaccine passport in place over the summer.

I'm fairly certain that there will be as well. There is loads of precedent for this. But the government needs to run an education programme because loads of people don't understand why they need to get vaccinated, and how it helps you and society. It's not enough that just the vulnerable are jabbed, everyone needs to get jabbed who can. Otherwise there is no alternative but rolling lockdowns. The virus will continue to circulate and it will continue to mutate. 

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:53:37 AM
Good sensible article by Dr. Ian Norton here

Seems fairly obvious to me that the worst of this will be over pretty soon in this part of the world - but there a will be a much longer drawn out and tiresome process of gradually getting the world back to normal, and that will take years, and as long as that remains that will influence how we live our lives here

Bottom line is - if you want freedom, get vaccinated

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/covid-19-we-have-never-seen-a-pandemic-of-this-scale-that-was-shorter-than-2-3-years-1.4498436
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on March 02, 2021, 11:54:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:41:33 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 02, 2021, 11:37:38 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.

Dunno, I'd like to see countries insist that you have been vaccinated before allowing you in. Can definitely see this with places like Oz and NZ. Quite possibly the EU as well. Tourist countries will mostly insist on it. To facilitate that then you'll need some sort of passport to prove you're vaccinated. The French insisted on testing all the lorry drivers and it's now par for the course. Things that seemed unbelievable just a year ago are now common place.
The real function of vaccine passports should be in the internal economy, like Israel have now

No vaccine passport, no admission to gyms, pubs etc.

You would have done well in 1930's Germany.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:58:03 AM
Quote from: clarshack on March 02, 2021, 11:54:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:41:33 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 02, 2021, 11:37:38 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.

Dunno, I'd like to see countries insist that you have been vaccinated before allowing you in. Can definitely see this with places like Oz and NZ. Quite possibly the EU as well. Tourist countries will mostly insist on it. To facilitate that then you'll need some sort of passport to prove you're vaccinated. The French insisted on testing all the lorry drivers and it's now par for the course. Things that seemed unbelievable just a year ago are now common place.
The real function of vaccine passports should be in the internal economy, like Israel have now

No vaccine passport, no admission to gyms, pubs etc.

You would have done well in 1930's Germany.
It's quote hilarious how many people on this board complain bitterly about historically literate references to fascism and Nazism - and then come out with stuff that makes them look totally and utterly hysterical



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:58:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.
Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

Why not? I suppose everyone has the "right" to choose who they do business with, everyone has the right to oppose threat to their health (how they perceive it) But how do you police it?

I'm not anti vaccine passport, I'm just thinking out loud I suppose. I see this as very much like the airports - probably something that should be done, but unlikely to gain the necessary demand.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 02, 2021, 12:05:37 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/hopes-of-travel-to-a-foreign-country-are-back-with-europes-vaccine-passport-plan-40147959.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 12:07:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.
Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

No
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 12:13:47 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 12:07:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.
Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

No
But you're cherry picking US right-wing libertarian logic there

You're advocating denial of freedom to businesses to keep their customers safe

Why should I be forced to sit next to an unvaccinated person on a plane

Where's my freedom there

You don't get on a plane without a passport

You don't get admittance to certain nightclubs based on arbitrary grounds like what you're wearing

If I wore a Celtic jersey, I'm not getting into Lillie's or whatever the exclusive nightclubs were in Dublin pre-March 2020

Society makes these sort of decisions all the time



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 02, 2021, 12:15:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 02, 2021, 11:54:07 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:41:33 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 02, 2021, 11:37:38 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.

Dunno, I'd like to see countries insist that you have been vaccinated before allowing you in. Can definitely see this with places like Oz and NZ. Quite possibly the EU as well. Tourist countries will mostly insist on it. To facilitate that then you'll need some sort of passport to prove you're vaccinated. The French insisted on testing all the lorry drivers and it's now par for the course. Things that seemed unbelievable just a year ago are now common place.
The real function of vaccine passports should be in the internal economy, like Israel have now

No vaccine passport, no admission to gyms, pubs etc.

You would have done well in 1930's Germany.

This sort of nonsense doesn't help. This idea that a government who provides free of charge a vaccine that can save your life is somehow fascism. People have to meet all sorts of criteria to enter gyms, pubs and restaurants. No being intoxicated is one. You need to wear appropriate clothing. Is that all fascism? Is having to wear a seatbelt in a car fascism? Is having to get a vaccine to go to some African countries fascism?
Genuinely interested.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on March 02, 2021, 12:16:29 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:58:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.
Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

Why not? I suppose everyone has the "right" to choose who they do business with, everyone has the right to oppose threat to their health (how they perceive it) But how do you police it?

I'm not anti vaccine passport, I'm just thinking out loud I suppose. I see this as very much like the airports - probably something that should be done, but unlikely to gain the necessary demand.

I think there will be a demand for this, certainly in countries that rely on foreign tourism to fund their economy. I don't see any difference in getting covid vaccines to getting vaccinated before travelling to Asia/Africa   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 02, 2021, 12:18:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 12:07:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.
Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

No

Why not? The business is providing the service and if they want to refuse entry to someone that is surely in their gift?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on March 02, 2021, 12:21:44 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 02, 2021, 12:18:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 12:07:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.
Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

No

Why not? The business is providing the service and if they want to refuse entry to someone that is surely in their gift?

The majority of pubs for example have signs up saying management have the right to refuse admission. What's to stop them including not having a covid passport/vaccine cert as a reason to refuse entry?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 12:31:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 02, 2021, 12:16:29 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:58:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.
Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

Why not? I suppose everyone has the "right" to choose who they do business with, everyone has the right to oppose threat to their health (how they perceive it) But how do you police it?

I'm not anti vaccine passport, I'm just thinking out loud I suppose. I see this as very much like the airports - probably something that should be done, but unlikely to gain the necessary demand.

I think there will be a demand for this, certainly in countries that rely on foreign tourism to fund their economy. I don't see any difference in getting covid vaccines to getting vaccinated before travelling to Asia/Africa

That's a fair enough point - I was thinking more door to door business at home first and foremost really. I can see Australia and NZ definitely employing something along these lines, I don't think the quarantine thing will stick around (unless that remains as part of a counteraction to appease those who refuse the vaccine but doesn't impinge on their rights to travel).

I don't know about bars and the likes, someone pointed out the management can refuse entry, of course - but sure you'll get another bar won't bother their holes just down the road. Can Govt intervene here and make that a demand on business going forward? I'm not sure. It's an emotive topic for sure, there can only be legal action taken. I'm a key worker who hasn't got vaccinated, if the bars open tomorrow would I be fit to go to work in an office full but get turned away for a pint because I haven't got the jab?

To me it seems just easier to do at borders, rather than "in" the country. Track and trace in the West during this mess has shown you can't really get people to do much they don't want to do. If a tracer phones you up, you hang up. What's done about that?

I just think once everyone is vaccinated the demand and the fear I suppose will lead to a relaxation in people. I don't think we as a whole will be as tense and maniacal about this anymore in another month or two.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 12:40:41 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 02, 2021, 12:18:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 12:07:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.
Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

No

Why not? The business is providing the service and if they want to refuse entry to someone that is surely in their gift?

Because they aren't now are they?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 12:42:22 PM
Bottom line is: if we are serious about beating this pandemic and then keeping it beaten - which is the only way we will have "normal life" again - vaccine passports which will positively discriminate in favour of those who are vaccinated, and their use both as regards international travel and in the internal economy, are an absolute must

If this doesn't happen, we are simply not serious at all about beating the pandemic and returning to life like it was pre-March 2020
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 02, 2021, 12:43:01 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 12:31:00 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on March 02, 2021, 12:16:29 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:58:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.
Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

Why not? I suppose everyone has the "right" to choose who they do business with, everyone has the right to oppose threat to their health (how they perceive it) But how do you police it?

I'm not anti vaccine passport, I'm just thinking out loud I suppose. I see this as very much like the airports - probably something that should be done, but unlikely to gain the necessary demand.

I think there will be a demand for this, certainly in countries that rely on foreign tourism to fund their economy. I don't see any difference in getting covid vaccines to getting vaccinated before travelling to Asia/Africa

That's a fair enough point - I was thinking more door to door business at home first and foremost really. I can see Australia and NZ definitely employing something along these lines, I don't think the quarantine thing will stick around (unless that remains as part of a counteraction to appease those who refuse the vaccine but doesn't impinge on their rights to travel).

I don't know about bars and the likes, someone pointed out the management can refuse entry, of course - but sure you'll get another bar won't bother their holes just down the road. Can Govt intervene here and make that a demand on business going forward? I'm not sure. It's an emotive topic for sure, there can only be legal action taken. I'm a key worker who hasn't got vaccinated, if the bars open tomorrow would I be fit to go to work in an office full but get turned away for a pint because I haven't got the jab?

To me it seems just easier to do at borders, rather than "in" the country. Track and trace in the West during this mess has shown you can't really get people to do much they don't want to do. If a tracer phones you up, you hang up. What's done about that?

I just think once everyone is vaccinated the demand and the fear I suppose will lead to a relaxation in people. I don't think we as a whole will be as tense and maniacal about this anymore in another month or two.

Agree it's easier at the border. Be interesting to see the view that hospitality takes on it. Would they risk a group leaving because one was refused entry? Given the year they have had? I'd imagine it would need legislation for hospitality to enforce and at this point I can't see the Tories doing that. But at the borders I think it will become common place. No jab = 14 days quarantine at your own expense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 02, 2021, 12:45:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 12:40:41 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 02, 2021, 12:18:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 12:07:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.
Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

No

Why not? The business is providing the service and if they want to refuse entry to someone that is surely in their gift?

Because they aren't now are they?

Well they aren't open either. 
In theory they could but I can't really see them sticking to it. It would require legislation and I don't see the Tories or the DUP going for that either. But like I said travel will be the key area.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 12:48:21 PM
Jesus William Crawley is turning into Nolan, his opinion is overriding every guest recently-
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 02, 2021, 01:21:48 PM
A lot of ignorant people here backing a totalitarian society.

Wonder would they feel the same when it's something concerns them.

Let's make pariahs out of smokers so with all the damage they do to society.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on March 02, 2021, 01:34:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 02, 2021, 01:21:48 PM
A lot of ignorant people here backing a totalitarian society.

Wonder would they feel the same when it's something concerns them.

Let's make pariahs out of smokers so with all the damage they do to society.

That's a good point - imagine banning smokers from smoking inside in public buildings because they can damage other peoples health. Oh wait....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on March 02, 2021, 01:44:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 12:13:47 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 12:07:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.
Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

No
But you're cherry picking US right-wing libertarian logic there

You're advocating denial of freedom to businesses to keep their customers safe

Why should I be forced to sit next to an unvaccinated person on a plane

Where's my freedom there

You don't get on a plane without a passport

You don't get admittance to certain nightclubs based on arbitrary grounds like what you're wearing

If I wore a Celtic jersey, I'm not getting into Lillie's or whatever the exclusive nightclubs were in Dublin pre-March 2020

Society makes these sort of decisions all the time

The EU are in the process of developing vaccine passports which would be a condition of entry into an EU country. I would welcome this as it vastly reduces the risk of virus mutations getting into the EU. The uk need to follow this. After they've it approved we can all travel freely in the EU provided we have our vaccine passport. Everyone considerate enough to think of others and careful enough with their own health has the freedom to easily travel. Hopefully this will happen and we can get back to some normality.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on March 02, 2021, 02:01:51 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 02, 2021, 01:34:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 02, 2021, 01:21:48 PM
A lot of ignorant people here backing a totalitarian society.

Wonder would they feel the same when it's something concerns them.

Let's make pariahs out of smokers so with all the damage they do to society.

That's a good point - imagine banning smokers from smoking inside in public buildings because they can damage other peoples health. Oh wait....

Smoking is banned in the workplace as well. It does seem as though people have decided if you want risk your own health smoking, that's fine, but we won't allow you to risk anyone else's health
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 02:11:08 PM
Stormont have agreed the roadmap.

1545 apparently....tune in for the most vague and complete bland wishy washy nonsense you can muster.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on March 02, 2021, 02:12:28 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 12:13:47 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 12:07:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.
Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

No
But you're cherry picking US right-wing libertarian logic there

You're advocating denial of freedom to businesses to keep their customers safe

Why should I be forced to sit next to an unvaccinated person on a plane

Where's my freedom there

You don't get on a plane without a passport

You don't get admittance to certain nightclubs based on arbitrary grounds like what you're wearing

If I wore a Celtic jersey, I'm not getting into Lillie's or whatever the exclusive nightclubs were in Dublin pre-March 2020

Society makes these sort of decisions all the time
what do you think the policy should be at the US Mexico border ?
I think anyone who doesn't have a vaccine passport should not be allowed enter and anyone entering illegally should be detained and punished for the potential damage they can cause to the health of legal US residents, you agree surely ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedKinght on March 02, 2021, 02:16:06 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 12:07:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.
Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

No

This is getting into the same sort of territory that Ashers bakery was found in breach of human rights for not baking a cake under religious/ethical beliefs.

If a person does not get a vaccine based on religious/political/ethical beliefs can they be denied a service provided? I'm not a legal expert but I assume that under the current human rights legislation that it would be impossible to deny them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 02, 2021, 02:16:41 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 02, 2021, 01:34:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 02, 2021, 01:21:48 PM
A lot of ignorant people here backing a totalitarian society.

Wonder would they feel the same when it's something concerns them.

Let's make pariahs out of smokers so with all the damage they do to society.

That's a good point - imagine banning smokers from smoking inside in public buildings because they can damage other peoples health. Oh wait....

That's a half measure. How about ye ban smoking completely and issue fines any penalties to anyone smoking in any outdoor public space too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 02, 2021, 02:21:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 02, 2021, 02:16:41 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 02, 2021, 01:34:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 02, 2021, 01:21:48 PM
A lot of ignorant people here backing a totalitarian society.

Wonder would they feel the same when it's something concerns them.

Let's make pariahs out of smokers so with all the damage they do to society.

That's a good point - imagine banning smokers from smoking inside in public buildings because they can damage other peoples health. Oh wait....

That's a half measure. How about ye ban smoking completely and issue fines any penalties to anyone smoking in any outdoor public space too.

I'd be all on for that.

If you want to kill yourself you can do it in the privacy of your own home, but don't be trying to kill me in the process.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 02, 2021, 02:24:16 PM
Quote from: RedKinght on March 02, 2021, 02:16:06 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 12:07:44 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.
Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

No

This is getting into the same sort of territory that Ashers bakery was found in breach of human rights for not baking a cake under religious/ethical beliefs.

If a person does not get a vaccine based on religious/political/ethical beliefs can they be denied a service provided? I'm not a legal expert but I assume that under the current human rights legislation that it would be impossible to deny them.

I'd imagine it might require a law change but a lot of those laws will have a catch all clause relating to either public health or security etc and could potentially be enforced under that. Interestingly Article 11 of the UK human rights act is: Freedom of assembly and association. So I wouldn't pin all my hopes on the human rights act.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2021, 02:26:08 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:58:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.
Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

Why not? I suppose everyone has the "right" to choose who they do business with, everyone has the right to oppose threat to their health (how they perceive it) But how do you police it?

I'm not anti vaccine passport, I'm just thinking out loud I suppose. I see this as very much like the airports - probably something that should be done, but unlikely to gain the necessary demand.

So I don't allow people into my branch unless they sanitize their hands and wear a mask. I'm I being a Nazi?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 02, 2021, 02:30:04 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 02:11:08 PM
Stormont have agreed the roadmap.

1545 apparently....tune in for the most vague and complete bland wishy washy nonsense you can muster.
No guideline dates attached so they can ride 2 or 3 horses. Smurfy ain't gonna like this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 02, 2021, 02:36:16 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 02, 2021, 02:30:04 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 02:11:08 PM
Stormont have agreed the roadmap.

1545 apparently....tune in for the most vague and complete bland wishy washy nonsense you can muster.
No guideline dates attached so they can ride 2 or 3 horses. Smurfy ain't gonna like this

Are the horses alive or dead tho thats the real question
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 02:38:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2021, 02:26:08 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:58:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.
Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

Why not? I suppose everyone has the "right" to choose who they do business with, everyone has the right to oppose threat to their health (how they perceive it) But how do you police it?

I'm not anti vaccine passport, I'm just thinking out loud I suppose. I see this as very much like the airports - probably something that should be done, but unlikely to gain the necessary demand.

So I don't allow people into my branch unless they sanitize their hands and wear a mask. I'm I being a Nazi?

If it's your business on your premises and you want to bring in these rules, who am I to argue against you?

It's your pitch, we play your rules. If you are happy enough with potential loss of earnings by "offending" people that similarly is on you I suppose.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 02, 2021, 02:40:36 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 02, 2021, 02:30:04 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 02:11:08 PM
Stormont have agreed the roadmap.

1545 apparently....tune in for the most vague and complete bland wishy washy nonsense you can muster.
No guideline dates attached so they can ride 2 or 3 horses. Smurfy ain't gonna like this
Pure shite and nothing we didnt already know so..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 02, 2021, 02:40:50 PM
Hospital admissions way down now so they have to start thinking about moving with lockdown, in the north, now.  From what I can tell on the graphs maybe 6 admitted. There are about 700 less in inpatients than ~ 8 weeks ago.

It's mad looking at hospital capacity. Even with the massively reduced numbers due to COVID they are still way over 90% utilisation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on March 02, 2021, 03:28:52 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 02:38:11 PM
If it's your business on your premises and you want to bring in these rules, who am I to argue against you?

It's your pitch, we play your rules. If you are happy enough with potential loss of earnings by "offending" people that similarly is on you I suppose.

I think you'll find insurance providers will dictate everything and premiums will be reflect workplace or business policies. Gyms may not enforce people having a vaccine but any extra cost on their liability insurance will end up being passed on to members. Ski resorts would be one of the easiest places to catch covid. I fully expect snow sports insurance premiums to reflect whether you have a vaccine or not.

Be interested to see how peoples principles are offended once refusal of a "free" vaccine starts hitting them in the pocket.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 03:34:10 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on March 02, 2021, 03:28:52 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 02:38:11 PM
If it's your business on your premises and you want to bring in these rules, who am I to argue against you?

It's your pitch, we play your rules. If you are happy enough with potential loss of earnings by "offending" people that similarly is on you I suppose.

I think you'll find insurance providers will dictate everything and premiums will be reflect workplace or business policies. Gyms may not enforce people having a vaccine but any extra cost on their liability insurance will end up being passed on to members. Ski resorts would be one of the easiest places to catch covid. I fully expect snow sports insurance premiums to reflect whether you have a vaccine or not.

Be interested to see how peoples principles are offended once refusal of a "free" vaccine starts hitting them in the pocket.

I get your point, but Covid has a survival rate of something like 99.98% no? Not like those who go off skiing are likely to be too hard hit by Covid themselves. Obviously there is the spread issue but at what point does an insurance cert stop caring as long as the payee is ok, and thus the liability ends?

Sooner or later people are going to start asking the question about this 99% survival rate. Again, Devil Advocate, not saying it's my own view - but 99%+ survival and we are talking really stuff that brings us into the realm of conspiracy and great resets and this type of stuff.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 02, 2021, 03:41:32 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 03:34:10 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on March 02, 2021, 03:28:52 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 02:38:11 PM
If it's your business on your premises and you want to bring in these rules, who am I to argue against you?

It's your pitch, we play your rules. If you are happy enough with potential loss of earnings by "offending" people that similarly is on you I suppose.

I think you'll find insurance providers will dictate everything and premiums will be reflect workplace or business policies. Gyms may not enforce people having a vaccine but any extra cost on their liability insurance will end up being passed on to members. Ski resorts would be one of the easiest places to catch covid. I fully expect snow sports insurance premiums to reflect whether you have a vaccine or not.

Be interested to see how peoples principles are offended once refusal of a "free" vaccine starts hitting them in the pocket.

I get your point, but Covid has a survival rate of something like 99.98% no? Not like those who go off skiing are likely to be too hard hit by Covid themselves. Obviously there is the spread issue but at what point does an insurance cert stop caring as long as the payee is ok, and thus the liability ends?

Sooner or later people are going to start asking the question about this 99% survival rate. Again, Devil Advocate, not saying it's my own view - but 99%+ survival and we are talking really stuff that brings us into the realm of conspiracy and great resets and this type of stuff.

Dunno what the exact rate is on survival but agree its the vast vast majority. Problem is though that the amount of people who land into hospital. January was crazy for hospitals. It's not fair on those staff and we must do everything we can to stop the spread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 02, 2021, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 02, 2021, 02:40:36 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 02, 2021, 02:30:04 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 02:11:08 PM
Stormont have agreed the roadmap.

1545 apparently....tune in for the most vague and complete bland wishy washy nonsense you can muster.
No guideline dates attached so they can ride 2 or 3 horses. Smurfy ain't gonna like this
Pure shite and nothing we didnt already know so..
A quick look at it and it looks like unnecessarily complicated balls tbh, the tiered approach in GB was chaotic and it was relatively straightforward, here we've got 9 areas with  5 tiers or pathways per area. Consistent messaging will be a nightmare to achieve.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 02, 2021, 03:57:14 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 02, 2021, 03:41:32 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 03:34:10 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on March 02, 2021, 03:28:52 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 02:38:11 PM
If it's your business on your premises and you want to bring in these rules, who am I to argue against you?

It's your pitch, we play your rules. If you are happy enough with potential loss of earnings by "offending" people that similarly is on you I suppose.

I think you'll find insurance providers will dictate everything and premiums will be reflect workplace or business policies. Gyms may not enforce people having a vaccine but any extra cost on their liability insurance will end up being passed on to members. Ski resorts would be one of the easiest places to catch covid. I fully expect snow sports insurance premiums to reflect whether you have a vaccine or not.

Be interested to see how peoples principles are offended once refusal of a "free" vaccine starts hitting them in the pocket.

I get your point, but Covid has a survival rate of something like 99.98% no? Not like those who go off skiing are likely to be too hard hit by Covid themselves. Obviously there is the spread issue but at what point does an insurance cert stop caring as long as the payee is ok, and thus the liability ends?

Sooner or later people are going to start asking the question about this 99% survival rate. Again, Devil Advocate, not saying it's my own view - but 99%+ survival and we are talking really stuff that brings us into the realm of conspiracy and great resets and this type of stuff.

Dunno what the exact rate is on survival but agree its the vast vast majority. Problem is though that the amount of people who land into hospital. January was crazy for hospitals. It's not fair on those staff and we must do everything we can to stop the spread.

January was crazy this year.

Yet less people died in January this year than did in January three years ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 02, 2021, 04:02:12 PM
Nothing but waffle. Never ever going to be voting for Sinn Fein again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 02, 2021, 04:07:10 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/deefc0d5-5f85-486a-8cd8-38df48a8d325

World Health Organization investigators have downplayed a Chinese theory that coronavirus was brought to Wuhan through frozen food, underlining the charged geopolitics surrounding the roots of Covid-19.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on March 02, 2021, 04:14:51 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 02, 2021, 04:02:12 PM
Nothing but waffle. Never ever going to be voting for Sinn Fein again.

Same, I was frustrated but thought it was a good idea with regards to keeping lockdown in jan and feb for the health service, but now the goalposts have moved. Now capacity in hospital is only 1 of a number of things to be looked at, complete joke. What's the point in the vaccine if all the good work it's doing is being ignored.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on March 02, 2021, 04:17:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 02, 2021, 03:57:14 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 02, 2021, 03:41:32 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 03:34:10 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on March 02, 2021, 03:28:52 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 02:38:11 PM
If it's your business on your premises and you want to bring in these rules, who am I to argue against you?

It's your pitch, we play your rules. If you are happy enough with potential loss of earnings by "offending" people that similarly is on you I suppose.

I think you'll find insurance providers will dictate everything and premiums will be reflect workplace or business policies. Gyms may not enforce people having a vaccine but any extra cost on their liability insurance will end up being passed on to members. Ski resorts would be one of the easiest places to catch covid. I fully expect snow sports insurance premiums to reflect whether you have a vaccine or not.

Be interested to see how peoples principles are offended once refusal of a "free" vaccine starts hitting them in the pocket.

I get your point, but Covid has a survival rate of something like 99.98% no? Not like those who go off skiing are likely to be too hard hit by Covid themselves. Obviously there is the spread issue but at what point does an insurance cert stop caring as long as the payee is ok, and thus the liability ends?

Sooner or later people are going to start asking the question about this 99% survival rate. Again, Devil Advocate, not saying it's my own view - but 99%+ survival and we are talking really stuff that brings us into the realm of conspiracy and great resets and this type of stuff.

Dunno what the exact rate is on survival but agree its the vast vast majority. Problem is though that the amount of people who land into hospital. January was crazy for hospitals. It's not fair on those staff and we must do everything we can to stop the spread.

January was crazy this year.

Yet less people died in January this year than did in January three years ago.

Deaths year to date in the North (w/e 19/2/21) are 3,118. Deaths on average for the same period for the previous 5 years are 2,530, so deaths this year are 23.24% above average so far. And that is with significant restrictions in place (meaning it's not a like for like comparison with 3 years ago).

I know you found a table showing January deaths were higher three years ago but if you look at the weekly stats every week this year has been higher than the highest number recorded for the equivalent week in the previous 5 years (indicating there is a timing issue with the monthly one's you are relying on).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on March 02, 2021, 04:20:49 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 02, 2021, 04:14:51 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 02, 2021, 04:02:12 PM
Nothing but waffle. Never ever going to be voting for Sinn Fein again.

Same, I was frustrated but thought it was a good idea with regards to keeping lockdown in jan and feb for the health service, but now the goalposts have moved. Now capacity in hospital is only 1 of a number of things to be looked at, complete joke. What's the point in the vaccine if all the good work it's doing is being ignored.

Same here too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 04:27:02 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 02, 2021, 04:20:49 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 02, 2021, 04:14:51 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 02, 2021, 04:02:12 PM
Nothing but waffle. Never ever going to be voting for Sinn Fein again.

Same, I was frustrated but thought it was a good idea with regards to keeping lockdown in jan and feb for the health service, but now the goalposts have moved. Now capacity in hospital is only 1 of a number of things to be looked at, complete joke. What's the point in the vaccine if all the good work it's doing is being ignored.

Same here too.

Hopefully this is what finally breaks down the Green and Orange blockade in this country when it comes to voting.

I don't know anyone in "real life" with anything good to say about the politicians here right now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 04:27:42 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 02, 2021, 04:02:12 PM
Nothing but waffle. Never ever going to be voting for Sinn Fein again.

haven't the talent north of the border
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: the goal was on on March 02, 2021, 04:33:02 PM
Just remember as well as politicians there is about probably about 12 spads worth £1.5 mill a year helped come up with this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 02, 2021, 04:35:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 04:27:42 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 02, 2021, 04:02:12 PM
Nothing but waffle. Never ever going to be voting for Sinn Fein again.

haven't the talent north of the border
f**k all alternatives though. SDLP are far worse and Alliance are just posh Unionists. Aontu look decent from what I can see.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 02, 2021, 04:35:58 PM
Frustrating with no clarity. Very disappointing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 04:39:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 02, 2021, 04:35:58 PM
Frustrating with no clarity. Very disappointing.

There was never anything else coming but this.

In one of my weaker moments earlier I thought it wouldn't even be that bad if we had Boris ruling it here, at least he's willing to stick his neck on the line for his beliefs instead of a whole pile of wait and see what happens here.

Essentially nothing now until April 16th. Won't be surprised if this manifests itself in an increase of blatant breaches now. People are angry.

And another leak to the media, Cool FM fit to tweet about it before it was actually announced. I despair. I really do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 02, 2021, 04:42:22 PM
All nonsense scribbled on the back of a fag packet. Remember they had something similar last summer and then just did their own thing anyway?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 02, 2021, 04:44:44 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 04:39:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 02, 2021, 04:35:58 PM
Frustrating with no clarity. Very disappointing.

There was never anything else coming but this.

In one of my weaker moments earlier I thought it wouldn't even be that bad if we had Boris ruling it here, at least he's willing to stick his neck on the line for his beliefs instead of a whole pile of wait and see what happens here.

Essentially nothing now until April 16th. Won't be surprised if this manifests itself in an increase of blatant breaches now. People are angry.

And another leak to the media, Cool FM fit to tweet about it before it was actually announced. I despair. I really do.

There's a review on the 18th I think so you'd expect movement then. Are people adhering to the restrictions? Roads are far busier and I saw pictures of Newcastle at the weekend and it was packed. Certainly going against the stay at home message.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 02, 2021, 04:45:48 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 02, 2021, 04:17:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 02, 2021, 03:57:14 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 02, 2021, 03:41:32 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 03:34:10 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on March 02, 2021, 03:28:52 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 02:38:11 PM
If it's your business on your premises and you want to bring in these rules, who am I to argue against you?

It's your pitch, we play your rules. If you are happy enough with potential loss of earnings by "offending" people that similarly is on you I suppose.

I think you'll find insurance providers will dictate everything and premiums will be reflect workplace or business policies. Gyms may not enforce people having a vaccine but any extra cost on their liability insurance will end up being passed on to members. Ski resorts would be one of the easiest places to catch covid. I fully expect snow sports insurance premiums to reflect whether you have a vaccine or not.

Be interested to see how peoples principles are offended once refusal of a "free" vaccine starts hitting them in the pocket.

I get your point, but Covid has a survival rate of something like 99.98% no? Not like those who go off skiing are likely to be too hard hit by Covid themselves. Obviously there is the spread issue but at what point does an insurance cert stop caring as long as the payee is ok, and thus the liability ends?

Sooner or later people are going to start asking the question about this 99% survival rate. Again, Devil Advocate, not saying it's my own view - but 99%+ survival and we are talking really stuff that brings us into the realm of conspiracy and great resets and this type of stuff.

Dunno what the exact rate is on survival but agree its the vast vast majority. Problem is though that the amount of people who land into hospital. January was crazy for hospitals. It's not fair on those staff and we must do everything we can to stop the spread.

January was crazy this year.

Yet less people died in January this year than did in January three years ago.

Deaths year to date in the North (w/e 19/2/21) are 3,118. Deaths on average for the same period for the previous 5 years are 2,530, so deaths this year are 23.24% above average so far. And that is with significant restrictions in place (meaning it's not a like for like comparison with 3 years ago).

I know you found a table showing January deaths were higher three years ago but if you look at the weekly stats every week this year has been higher than the highest number recorded for the equivalent week in the previous 5 years (indicating there is a timing issue with the monthly one's you are relying on).

And I'm making reference to 2018, not last year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 04:47:16 PM
Rare that I'd have a kind word for Sinn Fein but their announcement seems to be pissing off a lot of the right people

Could be hope for them yet
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 04:51:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 02, 2021, 04:44:44 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 04:39:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 02, 2021, 04:35:58 PM
Frustrating with no clarity. Very disappointing.

There was never anything else coming but this.

In one of my weaker moments earlier I thought it wouldn't even be that bad if we had Boris ruling it here, at least he's willing to stick his neck on the line for his beliefs instead of a whole pile of wait and see what happens here.

Essentially nothing now until April 16th. Won't be surprised if this manifests itself in an increase of blatant breaches now. People are angry.

And another leak to the media, Cool FM fit to tweet about it before it was actually announced. I despair. I really do.

There's a review on the 18th I think so you'd expect movement then. Are people adhering to the restrictions? Roads are far busier and I saw pictures of Newcastle at the weekend and it was packed. Certainly going against the stay at home message.

I've written that off as another nonsense waste of time moment in front of the cameras.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: the goal was on on March 02, 2021, 05:03:23 PM
these numpties believe people are mixing.  Many people are in stage 4 of the Home and community section already. Because people have worked out the risk is getting less and less and have been doing this for weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on March 02, 2021, 05:09:21 PM
They keep saying 'driven by data not dates' but they don't tell us what the actual data is, the reason being anyone with a brain cell can work out looming at the ni COVID dashboard that the numbers are nose diving and the hospital numbers are looking a hell of a lot better. If they set out their perimeters then people would be calling them out. It's like saying to a child you're grounded until I decide you've done enough housework to let you out but never actually giving the child something to work towards. It's so frustrating the salary these people are on to come up with this kinda stuff. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 02, 2021, 05:17:34 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 02, 2021, 05:09:21 PM
They keep saying 'driven by data not dates' but they don't tell us what the actual data is, the reason being anyone with a brain cell can work out looming at the ni COVID dashboard that the numbers are nose diving and the hospital numbers are looking a hell of a lot better. If they set out their perimeters then people would be calling them out. It's like saying to a child you're grounded until I decide you've done enough housework to let you out but never actually giving the child something to work towards. It's so frustrating the salary these people are on to come up with this kinda stuff. 

Things have improved, but there are still as many in ICU as 3 months ago.
They need to get the Covid out of the hospitals so that they can resume all the other treatments.
However, some kind of roadmap would seem possible, but they couldn't agree that it was Tuesday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyroneman on March 02, 2021, 05:18:26 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 04:39:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 02, 2021, 04:35:58 PM
Frustrating with no clarity. Very disappointing.

There was never anything else coming but this.

In one of my weaker moments earlier I thought it wouldn't even be that bad if we had Boris ruling it here, at least he's willing to stick his neck on the line for his beliefs instead of a whole pile of wait and see what happens here.

Essentially nothing now until April 16th. Won't be surprised if this manifests itself in an increase of blatant breaches now. People are angry.

And another leak to the media, Cool FM fit to tweet about it before it was actually announced. I despair. I really do.

His 'beliefs' change with the wind, based on what he thinks people want to hear that day, or what will gain him political capital at any given time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on March 02, 2021, 05:26:36 PM
That document is a pointless exercise.  A wishy washy load of nonsense.

I fully agree that the roadmap to normality needs to be driven by the data.

But for that document to be anything more than coloured bog roll, the data points that allow movement between the stages needed to be published.

I'm not sure I expected much else mind you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2021, 05:36:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 02:38:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2021, 02:26:08 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:58:37 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 02, 2021, 11:10:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 11:07:15 AM
I think there will be big drop off in numbers taking vaccine under 50. Straw poll in office here, 12 people under 50, only 5 taking it. That will probably change when passports are needed etc, the main rational seems to be "if the vulnerable are jabbed why should we worry, its at our own risk, and we all had it anyhow"

Multi jurisdictional, legal minefield. Hugely unlikely to come in, at it's most basic, it could be argued that it coerces people into taking something they don't want to (or, need to, for sake of argument) for their "freedom". Legally its a black hole and you can be completely sure that it will be challenged by various groupings (and backed by just as many too, I suppose).

The pandemic will be long over before that legal war is even started, let alone settled.
Should businesses have the freedom to refuse admission to people who don't get the vaccine?

Why not? I suppose everyone has the "right" to choose who they do business with, everyone has the right to oppose threat to their health (how they perceive it) But how do you police it?

I'm not anti vaccine passport, I'm just thinking out loud I suppose. I see this as very much like the airports - probably something that should be done, but unlikely to gain the necessary demand.

So I don't allow people into my branch unless they sanitize their hands and wear a mask. I'm I being a Nazi?

If it's your business on your premises and you want to bring in these rules, who am I to argue against you?

It's your pitch, we play your rules. If you are happy enough with potential loss of earnings by "offending" people that similarly is on you I suppose.

It hasn't stopped anyone, they come in they are asked all the Covid questions and follow the procedures. Business was through the roof up to Xmas, January was slow (Covid or not it's slow) but Feb and start of March we are flat out.

I just feel that if they are not wanting to wear a mask stay in, our staff doesn't need to be at risk or pass it on to our families
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on March 02, 2021, 06:05:49 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 02, 2021, 04:35:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 04:27:42 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 02, 2021, 04:02:12 PM
Nothing but waffle. Never ever going to be voting for Sinn Fein again.

haven't the talent north of the border
f**k all alternatives though. SDLP are far worse and Alliance are just posh Unionists. Aontu look decent from what I can see.

What exactly are you looking for? In terms of talent the sdlp are way ahead at the moment with Matthew o'toole, Claire hanna, Nicola Mallon and even colm Eastwood is pretty good. Aontu are nutcases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 02, 2021, 06:09:20 PM
I think Eastwood is awful. I agree on the others but Eastwood not a good leader.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 02, 2021, 06:35:12 PM
These 2 fkheads got their comeuppance today.
Hopefully they'll be made pay all the costs.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40236206.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 02, 2021, 06:36:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 02, 2021, 06:05:49 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 02, 2021, 04:35:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 04:27:42 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 02, 2021, 04:02:12 PM
Nothing but waffle. Never ever going to be voting for Sinn Fein again.

haven't the talent north of the border
f**k all alternatives though. SDLP are far worse and Alliance are just posh Unionists. Aontu look decent from what I can see.

What exactly are you looking for? In terms of talent the sdlp are way ahead at the moment with Matthew o'toole, Claire hanna, Nicola Mallon and even colm Eastwood is pretty good. Aontu are nutcases.

Eastwood? ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 02, 2021, 06:37:32 PM
Those on the hill are absolutely useless
Data not dates and don't show you what data
What a waste of paper
Meeting on the 18th of March to then tell us we will open something in 3 weeks
Don't forget
We were told this was to protect the NHS
Hospital numbers have plummeted
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on March 02, 2021, 06:49:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 02, 2021, 05:17:34 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 02, 2021, 05:09:21 PM
They keep saying 'driven by data not dates' but they don't tell us what the actual data is, the reason being anyone with a brain cell can work out looming at the ni COVID dashboard that the numbers are nose diving and the hospital numbers are looking a hell of a lot better. If they set out their perimeters then people would be calling them out. It's like saying to a child you're grounded until I decide you've done enough housework to let you out but never actually giving the child something to work towards. It's so frustrating the salary these people are on to come up with this kinda stuff. 

Things have improved, but there are still as many in ICU as 3 months ago.
They need to get the Covid out of the hospitals so that they can resume all the other treatments.
However, some kind of roadmap would seem possible, but they couldn't agree that it was Tuesday.

That's not true, there's 4 less in ICU with COVID than the first tues in dec, also there are 9 more beds, so that's a decent swing. There are as the same amount of free beds in ICU than are being taken by COVID patients (I'm not saying this is in anyway a good thing just pointing out that there is breathing space) also given that the demographic that would be most at risk of filling these beds have been vaccinated it would be reasonable to think their shouldn't be a massive surge in the ICU admissions.

Again looking at the data, the 7 day admission to hospital is off the cliff the over 80s is down 71%, 70-79 is down 55% and 60-69 is down 34%. It really doesn't take a genius to work out that the vaccine is the silver bullet, our most vulnerable are being protected. These stats and these rates are showing that things should be opening up around about now, that's what's annoying me, it's Michelle O'Neill telling us that they don't want to keep us at home for a minute longer than necessary, the numbers do not support what they are saying 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 06:51:35 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 02, 2021, 06:37:32 PM
Those on the hill are absolutely useless
Data not dates and don't show you what data
What a waste of paper
Meeting on the 18th of March to then tell us we will open something in 3 weeks
Don't forget
We were told this was to protect the NHS
Hospital numbers have plummeted
Some posters seem to have an incredible emotional investment that governments again make exactly the same mistake they've made twice before
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 02, 2021, 07:46:07 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 02, 2021, 06:05:49 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 02, 2021, 04:35:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 02, 2021, 04:27:42 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 02, 2021, 04:02:12 PM
Nothing but waffle. Never ever going to be voting for Sinn Fein again.

haven't the talent north of the border
f**k all alternatives though. SDLP are far worse and Alliance are just posh Unionists. Aontu look decent from what I can see.

What exactly are you looking for? In terms of talent the sdlp are way ahead at the moment with Matthew o'toole, Claire hanna, Nicola Mallon and even colm Eastwood is pretty good. Aontu are nutcases.
A United Ireland. Can't stand Eastwood running about full of his own importance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 02, 2021, 08:00:18 PM
Mike Ryan of the WHO basically saying it's unrealistic to expect Covid to be over by the end of the year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 02, 2021, 08:02:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2021, 08:00:18 PM
Mike Ryan of the WHO basically saying it's unrealistic to expect Covid to be over by the end of the year.

The vaccine might turn out to be the biggest Ponzi scheme of the 21st century.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2021, 08:05:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2021, 08:00:18 PM
Mike Ryan of the WHO basically saying it's unrealistic to expect Covid to be over by the end of the year.

Which year?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on March 02, 2021, 08:06:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2021, 08:00:18 PM
Mike Ryan of the WHO basically saying it's unrealistic to expect Covid to be over by the end of the year.
when covid ends that means this guy goes back to being a nobody , fauci the same these people who were no names before covid have turned into celebrities and spend half their time on tv or being talked about on social media and that should be looked at as a slight conflict of interests.The smarter we get the dumber we are getting in lots of ways too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2021, 08:19:04 PM
It's very simple, if we see less people going into hospital or ICU then we will be ready to get back to normal, living with Covid, if you have the vaccine it'll will stop you getting ill, reducing pressure on NHS, if Cnuts don't get vaccinated then this cycle will continue.

If we get both jabs and people are still ending up in hospital or ICU then we've been sold a pup, are there figures for current hospitalised patients that have been given the vaccine 2/3 weeks ago?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 02, 2021, 09:28:01 PM
The numbers going into hospital are down massively. They are on single figures a day and have been consistently dropping. The thing is I am not sure where they need to be to make any movement?

I get not making the same mistake again etc but the government(s) need to be careful to not paint themselves into a corner either. The reasoning of a holiday coming up should not be used to continue lockdown. There is one holiday after another after another coming up so where do you draw the line? Also the message being stay at home should not be a reason for not doing things like youth sports etc. If lockdown is relaxed a bit and people stay within those boundaries then there shouldn't be an issue. If people don't then a) they would have been anyway and b) they should be taken to task.

The mistakes at Christmas we're very different from relaxing things a bit. We basically had a week off up north. Cafes, restaurants etc etc were all open. The London variant was at play. There were no vaccines. People were allowed in each other's houses. There are two variables there which aren't here now and no one wants a week off or to completely relax everything. Just start it up a bit is all people want.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 02, 2021, 09:32:51 PM
Sid the big difference here is the vaccine
It has been proven that it works
That government needed to come out today and lift something small say next week to give people a lift
At one stage we had 2000 in hospital now we have 297
I just don't get it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 02, 2021, 09:45:44 PM
There was never anywhere near 2000 in hospital in the north smurfy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 02, 2021, 10:11:53 PM
Two problems with NI's current "strategy".

First, it is inevitable that very soon, just like they did last April people will make their own minds up on the dangers of engaging with others. We entered a "lockdown lite" phase long before things opened up last spring, with kids birthday parties, outdoor gatherings and group training all happening. Last year it was based on guesswork with improving numbers and good weather, and people were overwhelmingly proven right in their convictions. This year the vaccine is another string for that thought process. With regards to sport, it makes no sense not to provide this engagement from now in controlled outdoor environments.

The second problem is that if hospitality isn't phased in relatively quickly, then it's going to put an awful lot of stress on those facilities that are open, especially over Easter week when everyone is off work, and bored. Is it really in anyone's interests to have thousands of cars trying to access the same forest park all hours of the day? Is it in anyone's interests for kids having to take a leak (or worse) in the woods as basic amenities are closed, and there are no cafes / restaurants to avail of?

These may seem like small issues. But personally I'd prefer if people weren't gathering in each others' houses and families weren't thronging to the same few places. The issues are readily overcome by allowing bars, restaurants, theme parks, zoos, etc to open quickly for outdoor service only.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on March 02, 2021, 10:40:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 02, 2021, 08:06:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2021, 08:00:18 PM
Mike Ryan of the WHO basically saying it's unrealistic to expect Covid to be over by the end of the year.
when covid ends that means this guy goes back to being a nobody , fauci the same these people who were no names before covid have turned into celebrities and spend half their time on tv or being talked about on social media and that should be looked at as a slight conflict of interests.The smarter we get the dumber we are getting in lots of ways too.

The stick these fellas get for doing their jobs is really weird. Do people really think some one like Fauci wants to prolong the pandemic just so that he and his family can keep their 24/7 armed guard? Celebrity isn't actually that desirable for a great many people, especially those already extremely successful, well paid, and well respected in their chosen fields, and especially especially when it comes with daily death threats.

Furthering the public understanding of science is core responsibility for someone with public health leadership brief, particularly during a public health emergency. That means getting in front of a camera to let people know what you know, and explaining the rationale behind your advice to policy makers.

Would people really prefer the alternative? That these lads stayed in the shadows, and that for the last year we only had Trump, Boris & Arlene to explain the science to us? Just picture that world.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:18:38 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 02, 2021, 09:32:51 PM
Sid the big difference here is the vaccine
It has been proven that it works
That government needed to come out today and lift something small say next week to give people a lift
At one stage we had 2000 in hospital now we have 297
I just don't get it
Three quarters of NI's population have not had any dose of a vaccine

Pretty much everybody has not had a second dose



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 02, 2021, 11:33:57 PM
Fauci is fine Trump made a major error to ignore him and his team and not a lot wrong Mike Ryan either, covid will likely be here for the rest of the year as many of the poor countries will be waiting on vaccines. A lot can't stand Luke O'Neill however at least he deals in the positives.

Sam McConkey, Gerry Killeen, Tomas Ryan, Anthony Staines, Gabriel Scally on the other hand have all used this virus to increase their own profile and raise anxiety in the public with their extreme views and OTT predictions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 02, 2021, 11:36:02 PM
Don't mind that Gmac.
He's a Trumpite.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:38:11 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 02, 2021, 11:33:57 PM
Fauci is fine Trump made a major error to ignore him and his team and not a lot wrong Mike Ryan either, covid will likely be here for the rest of the year as many of the poor countries will be waiting on vaccines. A lot can't stand Luke O'Neill however at least he deals in the positives.

Sam McConkey, Gerry Killeen, Tomas Ryan, Anthony Staines, Gabriel Scally on the other hand have all used this virus to increase their own profile and raise anxiety in the public with their extreme views and OTT predictions.
Nothing extreme about their views at all - it's government policies throughout the western world which have proved extreme

The people you name deal in reality and caution, which is absolutely right

You obviously can't handle that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 02, 2021, 11:53:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:38:11 PM
Nothing extreme about their views at all - it's government policies throughout the western world which have proved extreme

The people you name deal in reality and caution, which is absolutely right

You obviously can't handle that

Good one sid  ;D  those people are all part of the zero covid group which isn't a reality on this island.

It not my problem If you can't or choose not to see the objective of those chaps whom aren't at all helpful to the set policies in place and trying to have people to keep their current compliance levels.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 03, 2021, 12:01:27 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 02, 2021, 11:53:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:38:11 PM
Nothing extreme about their views at all - it's government policies throughout the western world which have proved extreme

The people you name deal in reality and caution, which is absolutely right

You obviously can't handle that

Good one sid  ;D  those people are all part of the zero covid group which isn't a reality on this island.

It not my problem If you can't or choose not to see the objective of those chaps whom aren't at all helpful to the set policies in place and trying to have people to keep their current compliance levels.
Zero Covid isn't a reality because the government decided it was too hard to achieve, because they were too lazy to govern

The objective of the ISAG group is quite clearly to advocate for policies which would likely prove of significant benefit to Ireland

The government have quite clearly failed in this regard

People ludicrously call ISAG extremists yet they keep winning the arguments

Hotel quarantine was derided as extreme some months back yet it now has overwhelming public support

NPHET wanted hotel quarantine last May, but the government said no - that was extreme on the government's part

It's the government policies of the past year which have proved extreme

Extreme inaction and folly has led us to the point we're at now

And some people want to repeat the folly yet again

Slow learning for slow learners

Level 5 should remain until June at minimum


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on March 03, 2021, 12:24:39 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 02, 2021, 08:06:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2021, 08:00:18 PM
Mike Ryan of the WHO basically saying it's unrealistic to expect Covid to be over by the end of the year.
when covid ends that means this guy goes back to being a nobody , fauci the same these people who were no names before covid have turned into celebrities and spend half their time on tv or being talked about on social media and that should be looked at as a slight conflict of interests.The smarter we get the dumber we are getting in lots of ways too.


Gmac

Bingo

Of course Trump has to be mentioned in every lazy rebuttal.

Personally thought the WHO have been making it up as they go along.

Google Irish times interview from February 20th 2020, Says it all IMO.
The Chinese Govt deserves credit for putting health and people first

Btw, don't feel one bit sorry for them, they will most likely be doing speaking engagements for
at least the next five years at $50k a pop, first class travel, oh and throw in a book deal or documentary as well.

And if you are still not cynical enough, go back five years or so on the AP story
Re how the WHO spent more on plane and hotels than on AIDS and Malaria.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 03, 2021, 12:37:42 AM
You know well Sid that restrictions will be eased next month so long cases in the community and hospitals continue to decline. Won't be easing at the levels of Christmas but an easing nonetheless. No doubt the ISAG lads will be all over media if any April easing of restrictions are confirmed with their OTT predictions once again.

Getting to a position whereby some supporters are allowed back to GAA games, let's say 500 at a club match it will June or later for that I'd expect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 03, 2021, 07:08:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 03, 2021, 12:01:27 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on March 02, 2021, 11:53:50 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 11:38:11 PM
Nothing extreme about their views at all - it's government policies throughout the western world which have proved extreme

The people you name deal in reality and caution, which is absolutely right

You obviously can't handle that

Good one sid  ;D  those people are all part of the zero covid group which isn't a reality on this island.

It not my problem If you can't or choose not to see the objective of those chaps whom aren't at all helpful to the set policies in place and trying to have people to keep their current compliance levels.
Zero Covid isn't a reality because the government decided it was too hard to achieve, because they were too lazy to govern

The objective of the ISAG group is quite clearly to advocate for policies which would likely prove of significant benefit to Ireland

The government have quite clearly failed in this regard

People ludicrously call ISAG extremists yet they keep winning the arguments

Hotel quarantine was derided as extreme some months back yet it now has overwhelming public support

NPHET wanted hotel quarantine last May, but the government said no - that was extreme on the government's part

It's the government policies of the past year which have proved extreme

Extreme inaction and folly has led us to the point we're at now

And some people want to repeat the folly yet again

Slow learning for slow learners

Level 5 should remain until June at minimum
Don't think you can call anyone else extreme.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 03, 2021, 07:12:50 AM
Sid what part are you not getting?
Numbers are plummeting
Vaccines are being administered
All over 60s will be offered a vaccine in the north by St Patrick's Day
Hospitals are no longer under pressure
All health care workers have been offered a vaccine
Cases will be down to double figures next week
Why level 5 until June?
Can you explain your thoughts on why June and not April?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 03, 2021, 07:29:25 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 02, 2021, 10:40:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 02, 2021, 08:06:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2021, 08:00:18 PM
Mike Ryan of the WHO basically saying it's unrealistic to expect Covid to be over by the end of the year.
when covid ends that means this guy goes back to being a nobody , fauci the same these people who were no names before covid have turned into celebrities and spend half their time on tv or being talked about on social media and that should be looked at as a slight conflict of interests.The smarter we get the dumber we are getting in lots of ways too.

The stick these fellas get for doing their jobs is really weird. Do people really think some one like Fauci wants to prolong the pandemic just so that he and his family can keep their 24/7 armed guard? Celebrity isn't actually that desirable for a great many people, especially those already extremely successful, well paid, and well respected in their chosen fields, and especially especially when it comes with daily death threats.

Furthering the public understanding of science is core responsibility for someone with public health leadership brief, particularly during a public health emergency. That means getting in front of a camera to let people know what you know, and explaining the rationale behind your advice to policy makers.

Would people really prefer the alternative? That these lads stayed in the shadows, and that for the last year we only had Trump, Boris & Arlene to explain the science to us? Just picture that world.

I don't get this either. It seems like a case of I don't like what you are saying , or understand it, so I am just going to criticise you.

I really don't think level 5 should stick until June either. Mainly because zero COVID isn't possible so I don't think that really anyone can realistically expect numbers to get significantly lower than what they are. (Relax it gradually I would advocate)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 03, 2021, 08:09:29 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 03, 2021, 07:29:25 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 02, 2021, 10:40:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 02, 2021, 08:06:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 02, 2021, 08:00:18 PM
Mike Ryan of the WHO basically saying it's unrealistic to expect Covid to be over by the end of the year.
when covid ends that means this guy goes back to being a nobody , fauci the same these people who were no names before covid have turned into celebrities and spend half their time on tv or being talked about on social media and that should be looked at as a slight conflict of interests.The smarter we get the dumber we are getting in lots of ways too.

The stick these fellas get for doing their jobs is really weird. Do people really think some one like Fauci wants to prolong the pandemic just so that he and his family can keep their 24/7 armed guard? Celebrity isn't actually that desirable for a great many people, especially those already extremely successful, well paid, and well respected in their chosen fields, and especially especially when it comes with daily death threats.

Furthering the public understanding of science is core responsibility for someone with public health leadership brief, particularly during a public health emergency. That means getting in front of a camera to let people know what you know, and explaining the rationale behind your advice to policy makers.

Would people really prefer the alternative? That these lads stayed in the shadows, and that for the last year we only had Trump, Boris & Arlene to explain the science to us? Just picture that world.

I don't get this either. It seems like a case of I don't like what you are saying , or understand it, so I am just going to criticise you.

I really don't think level 5 should stick until June either. Mainly because zero COVID isn't possible so I don't think that really anyone can realistically expect numbers to get significantly lower than what they are. (Relax it gradually I would advocate)
Wha?

We got down to single figures last summer, keeping it crushed is eminently achievable

Level 5 continues to work, we've got down from 7,000 cases to 379 cases yesterday, the trend is steady

Meanwhile the slowest of the slow learners are desperate for another massive wave

Like lemmings

Sticking with Level 5 and crushing this is BY FAR the most sensible thing to do





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 03, 2021, 08:27:30 AM
The most sanctimonious and pious of c***ts on full display now.

Listen. Selective learning is every bit as abhorrent as the slow learning you are so keen to mock.

Covid zero is not possible while both these islands have an open door policy for travel. Picture just how many of the mini lockdowns in NZ and Australia would be needed in Ireland in the average month, given the current travel policy.

Then ask yourself what benefit there is to maintaining level 5 until Covid is all but extinguished here? What so that we can say "we did it"?

The slow learners you are so quick to deride might just, as usual, have weighed things up more carefully than a **** with a huge f**king chip weighing him down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on March 03, 2021, 08:33:42 AM
Anyone that thinks we should stick to level 5 until June are on the cautious side and a caution with variants. Our surge happened before the variants,  when we had 6000 cases per day average only about 20% of those cases came from a new variant,  what variants did mostly is slow down the fall. Variants are somewhat overplayed but I understand why there is a concern.

May 18th last year when level 5 restrictions was relaxed we had 7 day average of 161 cases per day and that was from 40,000 weekly tests so it was higher than reported and was 386 in hospital. Oh and we had no vaccines.

All going well by next month we should have a lower hospital number and 250 cases per day average or lower from more than double the amount tests.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 03, 2021, 08:45:04 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 03, 2021, 08:27:30 AM
The most sanctimonious and pious of c***ts on full display now.

Listen. Selective learning is every bit as abhorrent as the slow learning you are so keen to mock.

Covid zero is not possible while both these islands have an open door policy for travel. Picture just how many of the mini lockdowns in NZ and Australia would be needed in Ireland in the average month, given the current travel policy.

Then ask yourself what benefit there is to maintaining level 5 until Covid is all but extinguished here? What so that we can say "we did it"?

The slow learners you are so quick to deride might just, as usual, have weighed things up more carefully than a **** with a huge f**king chip weighing him down.
I laughed when YOU, of all people, called me a sanctimonious, pious ****  ;D

Because that's exactly what you are, with the emphasis very much on the **** part

You are one the slowest of the slow learners

One would hope so at least, because the alternative is pretty grotesque

And a desperately dislikeable person, I think you have serious anger issues

At Christmas you were the guy who was quoting a Covid denier telling us there was nothing more to say about the pandemic

You were the guy who thought Level 5 was an anti-GAA conspiracy

A fool

It's people like YOU who are responsible for spreading the scientifically illiterate bullshit that ended up with a massive wave that killed my father

So kindly go and fook yourself

You ****






Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 03, 2021, 09:17:06 AM
Let's get one thing very very clear.

I did not kill your father.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 03, 2021, 09:49:23 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 03, 2021, 09:17:06 AM
Let's get one thing very very clear.

I did not kill your father.
No

But you were part of the mindless rush to open up which killed him and two thousand others

And you'd no doubt demand another two thousand dead just so you can get your pints

You should probably have a bit of shame and keep your trap shut, because you've nothing of knowledge or interest to contribute on this topic

You just copy and paste professional contrarian bullshit "opinions" while constantly wallowing in fake victimhood

You're free to do that but I'm free to call your "opinions" what they are - ultra-self-entitled bullshit

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mike Tyson on March 03, 2021, 09:51:54 AM
I think it's in everyone's best interests that some sort of easing of lockdown is passed. From reading on here it is doing severe damage to the mental health and stability of certain posters.

Maybe the return of good weather will encourage people to go outdoors for some fresh air and step away from the keyboard.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 03, 2021, 09:59:47 AM
It seems to be doing most damage to the mental health of people of the sort of posters that generally poo poo mental health as an issue

These are usually the sort of people that don't read, so no wonder they're finding it tough
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 03, 2021, 10:00:51 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 03, 2021, 09:49:23 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 03, 2021, 09:17:06 AM
Let's get one thing very very clear.

I did not kill your father.
No

But you were part of the mindless rush to open up which killed him and two thousand others

And you'd no doubt demand another two thousand dead just so you can get your pints

You should probably have a bit of shame and keep your trap shut, because you've nothing of knowledge or interest to contribute on this topic

You just copy and paste professional contrarian bullshit "opinions" while constantly wallowing in fake victimhood

You're free to do that but I'm free to call your "opinions" what they are - ultra-self-entitled bullshit

I know Sid that you want to use your personal loss as a weapon in this discussion. You kind of see it as as a pocket ace. But I'm advising you to use it sparingly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 03, 2021, 10:06:51 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 03, 2021, 10:00:51 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 03, 2021, 09:49:23 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 03, 2021, 09:17:06 AM
Let's get one thing very very clear.

I did not kill your father.
No

But you were part of the mindless rush to open up which killed him and two thousand others

And you'd no doubt demand another two thousand dead just so you can get your pints

You should probably have a bit of shame and keep your trap shut, because you've nothing of knowledge or interest to contribute on this topic

You just copy and paste professional contrarian bullshit "opinions" while constantly wallowing in fake victimhood

You're free to do that but I'm free to call your "opinions" what they are - ultra-self-entitled bullshit

I know Sid that you want to use your personal loss as a weapon in this discussion. You kind of see it as as a pocket ace. But I'm advising you to use it sparingly.
You see that's your problem right there - you see the thousands of real people who have died from Covid merely as "weapons"

A bit like how Shinnerbots see real victims of their bloodlust as "bingo"

Dehumanisation is always the go to tactic of the extremist

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 03, 2021, 10:08:47 AM
This is one of the WHO head guys.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/who-chief-tedros-adhanom-ghebreyesus-may-face-genocide-charges-2fbfz7sff

Says it all really.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 03, 2021, 10:20:01 AM
Quote from: Mike Tyson on March 03, 2021, 09:51:54 AM
I think it's in everyone's best interests that some sort of easing of lockdown is passed. From reading on here it is doing severe damage to the mental health and stability of certain posters.

Maybe the return of good weather will encourage people to go outdoors for some fresh air and step away from the keyboard.

It's such a grim thread. Will stay clear for a while
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 03, 2021, 10:22:39 AM
It has got beyond ridiculous tbh.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 03, 2021, 11:24:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 03, 2021, 10:06:51 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 03, 2021, 10:00:51 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 03, 2021, 09:49:23 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 03, 2021, 09:17:06 AM
Let's get one thing very very clear.

I did not kill your father.
No

But you were part of the mindless rush to open up which killed him and two thousand others

And you'd no doubt demand another two thousand dead just so you can get your pints

You should probably have a bit of shame and keep your trap shut, because you've nothing of knowledge or interest to contribute on this topic

You just copy and paste professional contrarian bullshit "opinions" while constantly wallowing in fake victimhood

You're free to do that but I'm free to call your "opinions" what they are - ultra-self-entitled bullshit

I know Sid that you want to use your personal loss as a weapon in this discussion. You kind of see it as as a pocket ace. But I'm advising you to use it sparingly.
You see that's your problem right there - you see the thousands of real people who have died from Covid merely as "weapons"

A bit like how Shinnerbots see real victims of their bloodlust as "bingo"

Dehumanisation is always the go to tactic of the extremist
Take a break.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 03, 2021, 11:41:12 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2021, 11:24:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 03, 2021, 10:06:51 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 03, 2021, 10:00:51 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 03, 2021, 09:49:23 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 03, 2021, 09:17:06 AM
Let's get one thing very very clear.

I did not kill your father.
No

But you were part of the mindless rush to open up which killed him and two thousand others

And you'd no doubt demand another two thousand dead just so you can get your pints

You should probably have a bit of shame and keep your trap shut, because you've nothing of knowledge or interest to contribute on this topic

You just copy and paste professional contrarian bullshit "opinions" while constantly wallowing in fake victimhood

You're free to do that but I'm free to call your "opinions" what they are - ultra-self-entitled bullshit

I know Sid that you want to use your personal loss as a weapon in this discussion. You kind of see it as as a pocket ace. But I'm advising you to use it sparingly.
You see that's your problem right there - you see the thousands of real people who have died from Covid merely as "weapons"

A bit like how Shinnerbots see real victims of their bloodlust as "bingo"

Dehumanisation is always the go to tactic of the extremist
Take a break.
Have you ever thought that perhaps a break might be much more in your line, given you provide absolutely nothing but monosyllabic yet extremist grunts?

No, of course you haven't
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 03, 2021, 12:08:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 02, 2021, 06:51:35 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 02, 2021, 06:37:32 PM
Those on the hill are absolutely useless
Data not dates and don't show you what data
What a waste of paper
Meeting on the 18th of March to then tell us we will open something in 3 weeks
Don't forget
We were told this was to protect the NHS
Hospital numbers have plummeted
Some posters seem to have an incredible emotional investment that governments again make exactly the same mistake they've made twice before

Exactly.

now they should have provided more on the data they were going to use but you can bet it's the community spread rates, R rate, the Hospital Capacity rates, in particular ICU and probably the vaccination rates which hopefully will be having an impact on R in the coming weeks and months.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 03, 2021, 12:20:32 PM
SF wheel out Colm Gildernew on Talkback to defend the lockdown easing document. This man has not got a notion. Anyone who is seriously thinking about voting for these gobshites in the future would want their heads looked at. He hasn't got a clue, O'Neill hasn't got a clue. They've never worked a day in their lives and have no idea. This document of nonsense needs to be put straight into the bin. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 03, 2021, 12:24:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2021, 12:20:32 PM
SF wheel out Colm Gildernew on Talkback to defend the lockdown easing document. This man has not got a notion. Anyone who is seriously thinking about voting for these gobshites in the future would want their heads looked at. He hasn't got a clue, O'Neill hasn't got a clue. They've never worked a day in their lives and have no idea. This document of nonsense needs to be put straight into the bin.

When the alternative for nationalists is the SDLP you can completely understand why the natioanlist community vote in their droves for SF.

I'd have a lot of issues with SF and I think they have been really poor throughout this lockdown but still miles ahead of the SDLP and their caliber of politician.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on March 03, 2021, 12:29:53 PM
I'm confused with the line of thinking behind the document issued by the Executive. Outdoor sports can start without spectators at level 2. Leisure centres and all indoor sports facilities including gyms can open in level 3 but spectators are only allowed back into outdoor sports at level 4. That means that I can go indoors and sweat, breath heavily and produce aerosols before I can go and watch a club match in open spaces. Who thought this up?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2021, 12:37:18 PM
Quote from: mackers on March 03, 2021, 12:29:53 PM
I'm confused with the line of thinking behind the document issued by the Executive. Outdoor sports can start without spectators at level 2. Leisure centres and all indoor sports facilities including gyms can open in level 3 but spectators are only allowed back into outdoor sports at level 4. That means that I can go indoors and sweat, breath heavily and produce aerosols before I can go and watch a club match in open spaces. Who thought this up?

"Mass gatherings" v individual training. The latter being a lesser risk presumably.

There is a lot doesn't make sense at the moment, the only thing is numbers are steadily going down, they have no choice soon but to start to open up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 03, 2021, 12:42:51 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 03, 2021, 11:41:12 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2021, 11:24:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 03, 2021, 10:06:51 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 03, 2021, 10:00:51 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 03, 2021, 09:49:23 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 03, 2021, 09:17:06 AM
Let's get one thing very very clear.

I did not kill your father.
No

But you were part of the mindless rush to open up which killed him and two thousand others

And you'd no doubt demand another two thousand dead just so you can get your pints

You should probably have a bit of shame and keep your trap shut, because you've nothing of knowledge or interest to contribute on this topic

You just copy and paste professional contrarian bullshit "opinions" while constantly wallowing in fake victimhood

You're free to do that but I'm free to call your "opinions" what they are - ultra-self-entitled bullshit

I know Sid that you want to use your personal loss as a weapon in this discussion. You kind of see it as as a pocket ace. But I'm advising you to use it sparingly.
You see that's your problem right there - you see the thousands of real people who have died from Covid merely as "weapons"

A bit like how Shinnerbots see real victims of their bloodlust as "bingo"

Dehumanisation is always the go to tactic of the extremist
Take a break.
Have you ever thought that perhaps a break might be much more in your line, given you provide absolutely nothing but monosyllabic yet extremist grunts?

No, of course you haven't
Prove my point for me there like a good lad...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on March 03, 2021, 01:02:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2021, 12:20:32 PM
SF wheel out Colm Gildernew on Talkback to defend the lockdown easing document. This man has not got a notion. Anyone who is seriously thinking about voting for these gobshites in the future would want their heads looked at. He hasn't got a clue, O'Neill hasn't got a clue. They've never worked a day in their lives and have no idea. This document of nonsense needs to be put straight into the bin.

unbelievable. trying to defend the indefensible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 03, 2021, 01:24:54 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 03, 2021, 01:02:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2021, 12:20:32 PM
SF wheel out Colm Gildernew on Talkback to defend the lockdown easing document. This man has not got a notion. Anyone who is seriously thinking about voting for these gobshites in the future would want their heads looked at. He hasn't got a clue, O'Neill hasn't got a clue. They've never worked a day in their lives and have no idea. This document of nonsense needs to be put straight into the bin.

unbelievable. trying to defend the indefensible.

It's laughable. They don't seem to listen to any experts. They don't seem to know what to do. It's a consensus of nonsense. It's a document for the sake of a document. They'll be driven by data but we won't tell you want the data is... and you know why? Because they making it up on the hoof.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 03, 2021, 01:30:02 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2021, 01:24:54 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 03, 2021, 01:02:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2021, 12:20:32 PM
SF wheel out Colm Gildernew on Talkback to defend the lockdown easing document. This man has not got a notion. Anyone who is seriously thinking about voting for these gobshites in the future would want their heads looked at. He hasn't got a clue, O'Neill hasn't got a clue. They've never worked a day in their lives and have no idea. This document of nonsense needs to be put straight into the bin.

unbelievable. trying to defend the indefensible.

It's laughable. They don't seem to listen to any experts. They don't seem to know what to do. It's a consensus of nonsense. It's a document for the sake of a document. They'll be driven by data but we won't tell you want the data is... and you know why? Because they making it up on the hoof.

Please tell me you realise your beloved Stoops are involved in this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 03, 2021, 01:31:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 03, 2021, 01:30:02 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2021, 01:24:54 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 03, 2021, 01:02:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2021, 12:20:32 PM
SF wheel out Colm Gildernew on Talkback to defend the lockdown easing document. This man has not got a notion. Anyone who is seriously thinking about voting for these gobshites in the future would want their heads looked at. He hasn't got a clue, O'Neill hasn't got a clue. They've never worked a day in their lives and have no idea. This document of nonsense needs to be put straight into the bin.

unbelievable. trying to defend the indefensible.

It's laughable. They don't seem to listen to any experts. They don't seem to know what to do. It's a consensus of nonsense. It's a document for the sake of a document. They'll be driven by data but we won't tell you want the data is... and you know why? Because they making it up on the hoof.

Please tell me you realise your beloved Stoops are involved in this?
All 5 parties are responsible for this mess
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 03, 2021, 01:36:57 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2021, 01:31:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 03, 2021, 01:30:02 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2021, 01:24:54 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 03, 2021, 01:02:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2021, 12:20:32 PM
SF wheel out Colm Gildernew on Talkback to defend the lockdown easing document. This man has not got a notion. Anyone who is seriously thinking about voting for these gobshites in the future would want their heads looked at. He hasn't got a clue, O'Neill hasn't got a clue. They've never worked a day in their lives and have no idea. This document of nonsense needs to be put straight into the bin.

unbelievable. trying to defend the indefensible.

It's laughable. They don't seem to listen to any experts. They don't seem to know what to do. It's a consensus of nonsense. It's a document for the sake of a document. They'll be driven by data but we won't tell you want the data is... and you know why? Because they making it up on the hoof.

Please tell me you realise your beloved Stoops are involved in this?
All 5 parties are responsible for this mess

Trailer is in full on propaganda mode today.

I don't think anyone could say SF have performed well this but no political party has. Trailer seems to be utterly obsessed at trying to pin every Executive decision as SF's fault when his own party is happy to go along with it.

I have to say I am very surprised at the volume of SDLP voters on here, they seem to be the majority which is a huge contrast to the vast amount of people of a nationalist/republican persuasion in the O6.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 03, 2021, 01:52:38 PM
Brazil is hitting a new peak for deaths

1,726 deaths announced yesterday which this graphic doesn't cover

This has happened in what are the summer months for the majority of the country

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvjwLLCXAAQap_l?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Here one of Brazil's top scientists describes how the country is becoming a massive laboratory for new variants

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/03/brazil-covid-global-threat-new-more-lethal-variants-miguel-nicolelis
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 03, 2021, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 03, 2021, 01:31:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 03, 2021, 01:30:02 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2021, 01:24:54 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 03, 2021, 01:02:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 03, 2021, 12:20:32 PM
SF wheel out Colm Gildernew on Talkback to defend the lockdown easing document. This man has not got a notion. Anyone who is seriously thinking about voting for these gobshites in the future would want their heads looked at. He hasn't got a clue, O'Neill hasn't got a clue. They've never worked a day in their lives and have no idea. This document of nonsense needs to be put straight into the bin.

unbelievable. trying to defend the indefensible.

It's laughable. They don't seem to listen to any experts. They don't seem to know what to do. It's a consensus of nonsense. It's a document for the sake of a document. They'll be driven by data but we won't tell you want the data is... and you know why? Because they making it up on the hoof.

Please tell me you realise your beloved Stoops are involved in this?
All 5 parties are responsible for this mess

I am well aware all 5 parties are in the executive. SF and The DUP have 4 ministers each. I think it's fair to say that this is a document of their making.

RE: "The Stoops" I am often critical of their position on certain issues including Schools for example. You're allowed to be. Weird concept if you're a supporter of SF were disagreement is punished, used to be with violence but I think they just intimidate and bully now. But unlike others I can see their faults and am not dogmatically wedded to their positions. I don't defend them when I believe they have gotten it wrong. However there is no doubt that they have all the talent at the minute. Matthew O'Toole, Nichola Mallon (who has come under repeated attack from SF as she's doing such a good job), Cara Hunter, Claire Hanna and Colm Eastwood are all performing well. Can we say the same for the other parties? Gordon Lyons? Martina Anderson? Colm Gildernew? Edwin Poots?

Earlier you said you "liked the look of Aontu" a one issue party. They've attracted some talented people to their team I have to say. The guy who ran in Armagh last time believes Covid is a hoax. He's about one Facebook group away from going full Gemma O'Doherty. Anne McCloskey in Derry is regarded as a real authority on this Covid issue as well. So much so that she had to quit the party! They're nothing more than a political holding pen for eejits!

So thanks but I think I will stay with the SDLP even if they are not perfect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2021, 01:55:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 03, 2021, 01:52:38 PM
Brazil is hitting a new peak for deaths

1,726 deaths announced yesterday which this graphic doesn't cover

This has happened in what are the summer months for the majority of the country

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvjwLLCXAAQap_l?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Here one of Brazil's top scientists describes how the country is becoming a massive laboratory for new variants

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/03/brazil-covid-global-threat-new-more-lethal-variants-miguel-nicolelis

Bit worrying considering the Brazilian population in Southern Ireland.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on March 03, 2021, 02:49:39 PM
Quote from: mackers on March 03, 2021, 12:29:53 PM
I'm confused with the line of thinking behind the document issued by the Executive. Outdoor sports can start without spectators at level 2. Leisure centres and all indoor sports facilities including gyms can open in level 3 but spectators are only allowed back into outdoor sports at level 4. That means that I can go indoors and sweat, breath heavily and produce aerosols before I can go and watch a club match in open spaces. Who thought this up?

You can't win with some people. Actually does make sense to me, it's prioritising the people that participate in sport over people sitting on their asses at mass gatherings  :D

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 03, 2021, 02:50:26 PM
3 hospital admissions in the north over the last 24 hours which is very positive.

Trailer I agree with a lot of what you say but I really don't know what you see in Eastwood.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2021, 03:08:38 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 03, 2021, 02:50:26 PM
3 hospital admissions in the north over the last 24 hours which is very positive.

Trailer I agree with a lot of what you say but I really don't know what you see in Eastwood.

It's great news, it appears the vaccines are paying off big now. Assuming these drops continue, at this kind of rate we are surely looking at "normal" end of April in the North.

Rossfan, I'll take you for a pint and show you around Tyrone....we aren't all bad up here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 03, 2021, 03:36:38 PM
Best offer I got all year ;D :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on March 03, 2021, 03:54:30 PM
Texas has removed mask mandate and is opening up 100% they don't have a huge amount of people vaccinated so it will be very interesting to see what happens there . Here's hoping it goes well for them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 03, 2021, 04:00:08 PM
NI's interim mental health champion Prof Siobhan O'Neill on the podium with Robin Swann and CMO McBride here now.

Wonder if there is any significance to this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 03, 2021, 04:01:30 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 03, 2021, 03:54:30 PM
Texas has removed mask mandate and is opening up 100% they don't have a huge amount of people vaccinated so it will be very interesting to see what happens there . Here's hoping it goes well for them.

I don't get why he didn't let it go another few weeks; their levels are still fairly high.

And local officials don't have to option to issue local mandates.

It will be interesting indeed. And yes, hopefully it goes well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 03, 2021, 04:42:38 PM
Interesting take on the UK and it's vaccine process in getting as many people as possible with the first dose and then hold off for 10 weeks for the second but it looks like the 26 counties are getting the second dose out quicker;

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvkYdm8XEAcDdVK?format=png&name=large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvkZNFJXAAYKkx9?format=png&name=large)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 03, 2021, 05:00:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 03, 2021, 04:42:38 PM
Interesting take on the UK and it's vaccine process in getting as many people as possible with the first dose and then hold off for 10 weeks for the second but it looks like the 26 counties are getting the second dose out quicker;

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvkYdm8XEAcDdVK?format=png&name=large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvkZNFJXAAYKkx9?format=png&name=large)

Looking at the lag there. the 8th of Dec is the start date but the rollout was slow initially and did not hit 5% until about month later in terms of first doses so I'd expect first doses will probably rise steadily for the remainder of March - probably hitting over 50% of the adult population and then from there on will slow down with the second doses beginning to rise.

I think the UK got their vaccine rollout strategy right (if the vaccine is successful). The data tells who the virus is a threat to and who it is not really a threat to so getting as many of the at risk categories any form of protection will be a big bonus. With over 1/3 of the adult population now done, all the most at risk categories should have some form of protection and if the vaccine works, the number of deaths and hopsitalisations due to Covid should now begin to fall off a cliff.

The South look to have a far more arduous path out of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 04, 2021, 07:07:59 AM
Car crash stuff from Robbie Swann on last nights Nolan show
Was asked why he hasn't given dates said because it's data driven
Was asked what does the data need to show
Hadnt an answer
Said everything is dropping very quickly so was asked why can't he open some places
All he could say was its data driven but couldn't answer what the data needs to be
Arlene doesn't agree with the data she signed off
Michelle who also signed it off won't apologise for breaking the rules
Lockord said it's clear as mustard
Another DUP member has asked why we are not given tha data we need to hit! Ask your boss she signed it off
Sinn Fein just head for the bunkers
SDLP what is the point of them? Never to be seen
Was a big opportunity for a few parties to gain some credibility here but no where to be seen
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2021, 07:44:14 AM
Are they not look looking at it on the 18th?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 04, 2021, 08:04:00 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2021, 07:44:14 AM
Are they not look looking at it on the 18th?

They are.

But what are they looking at and what are they measuring it against on this date?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 04, 2021, 08:25:32 AM
Quote from: Taylor on March 04, 2021, 08:04:00 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2021, 07:44:14 AM
Are they not look looking at it on the 18th?

They are.

But what are they looking at and what are they measuring it against on this date?

As said before it can't really be that hard to reveal the KPI's that need to happen before certain measures are relaxed, i.e. the R number, number of vaccinations of certain cohorts, hospitalisation rates etc etc so that when people act the bollox at house parties or travelling in from god knows where or a new strain comes along and impacts some of these things in a negative way then we know to expect either a slowing of the relaxations or a tightening again.
We are adults (well some of us are).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on March 04, 2021, 08:55:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 04, 2021, 08:25:32 AM
Quote from: Taylor on March 04, 2021, 08:04:00 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2021, 07:44:14 AM
Are they not look looking at it on the 18th?

They are.

But what are they looking at and what are they measuring it against on this date?


As said before it can't really be that hard to reveal the KPI's that need to happen before certain measures are relaxed, i.e. the R number, number of vaccinations of certain cohorts, hospitalisation rates etc etc so that when people act the bollox at house parties or travelling in from god knows where or a new strain comes along and impacts some of these things in a negative way then we know to expect either a slowing of the relaxations or a tightening again.
We are adults (well some of us are).

Robin Swann would have been better saying nothing last night, really came across as someone who had a script and not able to vary from it. I have zero time for Nolan but he asked the basic questions everyone is asking, what is the data? Robin Swann sept saying its a number of things but then wouldn't say what the numbers were for those things, I think the simple reason being with the vaccine rollout and how the numbers are going things would be opening up very shortly.

On the variant thing they keep talking about, im worried about this being used as a way of keeping people from asking too many questions, its already been stated by virologists that it would be more unusual if a virus didn't mutate and change.

as much as Boris is a clown he at least seems to be taking advice from a number of different experts in different areas and using them to blend together a plan, I think in Englands case the biggest thing they have done is said that the cases aren't going to be the driver going forward it will be the hospital admissions given that the vaccines main job is to limit the effects of the virus if you do catch it, to me that is def the most reasonable approach going forward.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 04, 2021, 09:08:59 AM
See there was a bomb attack on a Dutch testing centre yesterday morning

Shows the threat of the ideology of the Covid deniers and science deniers, and where all this amplification of science denial and fake news leads

People can complain about having to hear about culture wars all they like, but there's only one side that's driving culture war, and we all know which side that is, and how dangerous they are
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 04, 2021, 09:48:56 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 04, 2021, 08:55:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 04, 2021, 08:25:32 AM
Quote from: Taylor on March 04, 2021, 08:04:00 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2021, 07:44:14 AM
Are they not look looking at it on the 18th?

They are.

But what are they looking at and what are they measuring it against on this date?


As said before it can't really be that hard to reveal the KPI's that need to happen before certain measures are relaxed, i.e. the R number, number of vaccinations of certain cohorts, hospitalisation rates etc etc so that when people act the bollox at house parties or travelling in from god knows where or a new strain comes along and impacts some of these things in a negative way then we know to expect either a slowing of the relaxations or a tightening again.
We are adults (well some of us are).

Robin Swann would have been better saying nothing last night, really came across as someone who had a script and not able to vary from it. I have zero time for Nolan but he asked the basic questions everyone is asking, what is the data? Robin Swann sept saying its a number of things but then wouldn't say what the numbers were for those things, I think the simple reason being with the vaccine rollout and how the numbers are going things would be opening up very shortly.

On the variant thing they keep talking about, im worried about this being used as a way of keeping people from asking too many questions, its already been stated by virologists that it would be more unusual if a virus didn't mutate and change.

as much as Boris is a clown he at least seems to be taking advice from a number of different experts in different areas and using them to blend together a plan, I think in Englands case the biggest thing they have done is said that the cases aren't going to be the driver going forward it will be the hospital admissions given that the vaccines main job is to limit the effects of the virus if you do catch it, to me that is def the most reasonable approach going forward.

Anytime he talks he gives off the attitude of how dare you question me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 04, 2021, 10:24:46 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 04, 2021, 09:48:56 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 04, 2021, 08:55:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 04, 2021, 08:25:32 AM
Quote from: Taylor on March 04, 2021, 08:04:00 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2021, 07:44:14 AM
Are they not look looking at it on the 18th?

They are.

But what are they looking at and what are they measuring it against on this date?


As said before it can't really be that hard to reveal the KPI's that need to happen before certain measures are relaxed, i.e. the R number, number of vaccinations of certain cohorts, hospitalisation rates etc etc so that when people act the bollox at house parties or travelling in from god knows where or a new strain comes along and impacts some of these things in a negative way then we know to expect either a slowing of the relaxations or a tightening again.
We are adults (well some of us are).

Robin Swann would have been better saying nothing last night, really came across as someone who had a script and not able to vary from it. I have zero time for Nolan but he asked the basic questions everyone is asking, what is the data? Robin Swann sept saying its a number of things but then wouldn't say what the numbers were for those things, I think the simple reason being with the vaccine rollout and how the numbers are going things would be opening up very shortly.

On the variant thing they keep talking about, im worried about this being used as a way of keeping people from asking too many questions, its already been stated by virologists that it would be more unusual if a virus didn't mutate and change.

as much as Boris is a clown he at least seems to be taking advice from a number of different experts in different areas and using them to blend together a plan, I think in Englands case the biggest thing they have done is said that the cases aren't going to be the driver going forward it will be the hospital admissions given that the vaccines main job is to limit the effects of the virus if you do catch it, to me that is def the most reasonable approach going forward.

Anytime he talks he gives off the attitude of how dare you question me.

More the puppy dog eyes and "I'm doing my best here with things I don't properly understand" vibe.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 04, 2021, 10:45:05 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 04, 2021, 10:24:46 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 04, 2021, 09:48:56 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 04, 2021, 08:55:12 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 04, 2021, 08:25:32 AM
Quote from: Taylor on March 04, 2021, 08:04:00 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 04, 2021, 07:44:14 AM
Are they not look looking at it on the 18th?

They are.

But what are they looking at and what are they measuring it against on this date?


As said before it can't really be that hard to reveal the KPI's that need to happen before certain measures are relaxed, i.e. the R number, number of vaccinations of certain cohorts, hospitalisation rates etc etc so that when people act the bollox at house parties or travelling in from god knows where or a new strain comes along and impacts some of these things in a negative way then we know to expect either a slowing of the relaxations or a tightening again.
We are adults (well some of us are).

Robin Swann would have been better saying nothing last night, really came across as someone who had a script and not able to vary from it. I have zero time for Nolan but he asked the basic questions everyone is asking, what is the data? Robin Swann sept saying its a number of things but then wouldn't say what the numbers were for those things, I think the simple reason being with the vaccine rollout and how the numbers are going things would be opening up very shortly.

On the variant thing they keep talking about, im worried about this being used as a way of keeping people from asking too many questions, its already been stated by virologists that it would be more unusual if a virus didn't mutate and change.

as much as Boris is a clown he at least seems to be taking advice from a number of different experts in different areas and using them to blend together a plan, I think in Englands case the biggest thing they have done is said that the cases aren't going to be the driver going forward it will be the hospital admissions given that the vaccines main job is to limit the effects of the virus if you do catch it, to me that is def the most reasonable approach going forward.

Anytime he talks he gives off the attitude of how dare you question me.

More the puppy dog eyes and "I'm doing my best here with things I don't properly understand" vibe.

He doesn't know. The HS doesn't know. They're bumbling about in the dark. Pengelly and others in charge don't know what they're are doing. It's typical of the NICS. Underworked, overpaid, bloated. No accountability. This is what the civil servants produced and what's more our politicians accepted it and went out and defended it as if it was acceptable. More brains in a false face than there is with some of those politicians.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on March 04, 2021, 10:46:28 AM
EMA have started a rolling review on the Russian Spudnik vaccine. It's not an application for use but will help speed it up if it does come. There is some issues as with the vaccines about supply and spudnik appears to be no different if orders start to roll in the capacity not there and Russia has said it will have to look at manufacturing this elsewhere as their own plants are at full capacity for their own needs and those orders they've committed to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 04, 2021, 11:50:43 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56277669

Swanny growing on me
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 04, 2021, 11:59:28 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 04, 2021, 11:50:43 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56277669

Swanny growing on me

Will it be a case of wait and see what happens % wise (vaccine uptake) when we start getting down into the Twitter / Facebook age profiles? Vaccine passports for travel will definitely happen imo, so overall % adults wise should be high
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 04, 2021, 12:05:40 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 04, 2021, 11:59:28 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 04, 2021, 11:50:43 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56277669

Swanny growing on me

Will it be a case of wait and see what happens % wise (vaccine uptake) when we start getting down into the Twitter / Facebook age profiles? Vaccine passports for travel will definitely happen imo, so overall % adults wise should be high

Much as I suspected. It'll be difficult to enforce on the service industry but he hinted strongly at Vaccine travel passports.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 04, 2021, 12:10:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2021, 12:05:40 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 04, 2021, 11:59:28 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 04, 2021, 11:50:43 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56277669

Swanny growing on me

Will it be a case of wait and see what happens % wise (vaccine uptake) when we start getting down into the Twitter / Facebook age profiles? Vaccine passports for travel will definitely happen imo, so overall % adults wise should be high

Much as I suspected. It'll be difficult to enforce on the service industry but he hinted strongly at Vaccine travel passports.

Got mine yesterday due to Asthma (Was really surprised to get the call as it's only mild). Was delighted as I honestly think it will be required for travel this year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 04, 2021, 12:25:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 04, 2021, 12:10:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2021, 12:05:40 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 04, 2021, 11:59:28 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 04, 2021, 11:50:43 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56277669

Swanny growing on me

Will it be a case of wait and see what happens % wise (vaccine uptake) when we start getting down into the Twitter / Facebook age profiles? Vaccine passports for travel will definitely happen imo, so overall % adults wise should be high

Much as I suspected. It'll be difficult to enforce on the service industry but he hinted strongly at Vaccine travel passports.

Got mine yesterday due to Asthma (Was really surprised to get the call as it's only mild). Was delighted as I honestly think it will be required for travel this year.

Do you think you'll be going anywhere the year though? I wouldn't have thought it was on the table really? Unless you've a right few quid about you 👀
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 04, 2021, 12:30:53 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 04, 2021, 12:25:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 04, 2021, 12:10:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2021, 12:05:40 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 04, 2021, 11:59:28 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 04, 2021, 11:50:43 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56277669

Swanny growing on me

Will it be a case of wait and see what happens % wise (vaccine uptake) when we start getting down into the Twitter / Facebook age profiles? Vaccine passports for travel will definitely happen imo, so overall % adults wise should be high

Much as I suspected. It'll be difficult to enforce on the service industry but he hinted strongly at Vaccine travel passports.

Got mine yesterday due to Asthma (Was really surprised to get the call as it's only mild). Was delighted as I honestly think it will be required for travel this year.

Do you think you'll be going anywhere the year though? I wouldn't have thought it was on the table really? Unless you've a right few quid about you 👀

We've one booked from last year, Lose £100 if cancelled so wasn't much of a risk as we knew the prices would go through the roof if things started to re-open. I still think it might be too early (July) but hoping that it's possible. Last July there was international travel and you'd hope we would have a better year this year due to the vaccine program. But not end of the world if not. Bundoran get a rattle instead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 04, 2021, 01:22:12 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 04, 2021, 11:59:28 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 04, 2021, 11:50:43 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56277669

Swanny growing on me

Will it be a case of wait and see what happens % wise (vaccine uptake) when we start getting down into the Twitter / Facebook age profiles? Vaccine passports for travel will definitely happen imo, so overall % adults wise should be high

Yes I agree it will be required for travel and it will have big impact on %

I think 25% of pop are under 18, they cant get this vaccine
42% are 18-50 about 30% of those will choose not to get it I think just listening to people-this will change once air travel gets thumbs up

Id say about 35% will either not be eligible or wont want it. Would this be enough?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 04, 2021, 01:23:29 PM
Sky News headline here over 80s with both doses of the vaccine are breaking the Covid rules.

Let them get on and enjoy what is left, they've been through enough.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 04, 2021, 01:51:47 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 04, 2021, 12:25:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 04, 2021, 12:10:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 04, 2021, 12:05:40 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 04, 2021, 11:59:28 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 04, 2021, 11:50:43 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56277669

Swanny growing on me

Will it be a case of wait and see what happens % wise (vaccine uptake) when we start getting down into the Twitter / Facebook age profiles? Vaccine passports for travel will definitely happen imo, so overall % adults wise should be high

Much as I suspected. It'll be difficult to enforce on the service industry but he hinted strongly at Vaccine travel passports.

Got mine yesterday due to Asthma (Was really surprised to get the call as it's only mild). Was delighted as I honestly think it will be required for travel this year.

Do you think you'll be going anywhere the year though? I wouldn't have thought it was on the table really? Unless you've a right few quid about you 👀

I've a lads holiday booked this October and I intend on going. A load of us have hit a big birthday.. so ye know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on March 04, 2021, 04:55:25 PM
Got my first jab there, got it in the health centre. Was well run, like clockwork was in and out in 2 mins then wait in the car for 15 and away. Really good to see so many people getting done
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 04, 2021, 04:59:16 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 04, 2021, 04:55:25 PM
Got my first jab there, got it in the health centre. Was well run, like clockwork was in and out in 2 mins then wait in the car for 15 and away. Really good to see so many people getting done

Glad to hear.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on March 04, 2021, 05:11:39 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 04, 2021, 04:55:25 PM
Got my first jab there, got it in the health centre. Was well run, like clockwork was in and out in 2 mins then wait in the car for 15 and away. Really good to see so many people getting done
People talk about the possibility of vaccine certificates/passports, not just re travel but that some businesses when they open may require something like that for entry.

Without getting into the rights and wrongs of all that, did you actually get a certificate / piece of paper or similar saying you received the vaccine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 04, 2021, 05:14:38 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 04, 2021, 05:11:39 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 04, 2021, 04:55:25 PM
Got my first jab there, got it in the health centre. Was well run, like clockwork was in and out in 2 mins then wait in the car for 15 and away. Really good to see so many people getting done
People talk about the possibility of vaccine certificates/passports, not just re travel but that some businesses when they open may require something like that for entry.

Without getting into the rights and wrongs of all that, did you actually get a certificate / piece of paper or similar saying you received the vaccine?

We got cards (similar to a business card) with name, vaccine name, batch number and vaccine given date. And a date for 2nd appointment. Wouldn't call it a vaccine passport as such Hound
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on March 04, 2021, 05:15:09 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 04, 2021, 05:11:39 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 04, 2021, 04:55:25 PM
Got my first jab there, got it in the health centre. Was well run, like clockwork was in and out in 2 mins then wait in the car for 15 and away. Really good to see so many people getting done
People talk about the possibility of vaccine certificates/passports, not just re travel but that some businesses when they open may require something like that for entry.

Without getting into the rights and wrongs of all that, did you actually get a certificate / piece of paper or similar saying you received the vaccine?

Yeah, when I went in they took my details and had all the cards laid out on a table with peoples names on them, kind of like when you go to cast your vote. The card has your name, date of vaccine what vaccine you got and the batch number. There's then a blank bit below for them to fill in when ya get the 2nd dose. Handy job
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on March 04, 2021, 05:29:46 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 04, 2021, 05:11:39 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 04, 2021, 04:55:25 PM
Got my first jab there, got it in the health centre. Was well run, like clockwork was in and out in 2 mins then wait in the car for 15 and away. Really good to see so many people getting done
People talk about the possibility of vaccine certificates/passports, not just re travel but that some businesses when they open may require something like that for entry.

Without getting into the rights and wrongs of all that, did you actually get a certificate / piece of paper or similar saying you received the vaccine?

Yes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 04, 2021, 05:45:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 04, 2021, 05:37:18 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 04, 2021, 05:11:39 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 04, 2021, 04:55:25 PM
Got my first jab there, got it in the health centre. Was well run, like clockwork was in and out in 2 mins then wait in the car for 15 and away. Really good to see so many people getting done
People talk about the possibility of vaccine certificates/passports, not just re travel but that some businesses when they open may require something like that for entry.

Without getting into the rights and wrongs of all that, did you actually get a certificate / piece of paper or similar saying you received the vaccine?

Wife got vaccine, got paper cer second jab on 18th march, first jab 9 weeks ago
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 05, 2021, 07:01:37 AM
So we have to get through 5 levels to get completely out of lockdown
We move through the levels when the data allows
We are currently in level 1 and not yet allowed to progress onto level 2
So we can't even get to level 2 with this
1-5 people per day being admitted to hospital none have moved to icu
Cases in mid 150s per day
Hospital occupancy 250 from 2000 and currently dropping at a rate of 15 per day overall
80% of the top 9 priority groups vaccinated with at least 1 jab


If that's not level 2 stuff it beggars belief
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 05, 2021, 07:25:25 AM
There were never 2000 in hospital smurfy. Or close.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on March 05, 2021, 07:38:21 AM
There was just over a 1,000 in hospital. The problem with opening up with 150 cases a day is that that can very quickly turn into 8/900 cases a day or more as was shown around Christmas. And there is no point opening up to close a month later. I'd be happy if they took a slow approach for next few months and let the cases continue to drop and by that stage a large chunk of the population will be vaccinated. And at that stage try to get everything opened up and staying open. If anything this lockdown has proven to be very successful - you only need to look at all the numbers compared to 6/8 weeks ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 05, 2021, 07:40:40 AM
Apologies that was the south
1000 on January the 9th
So Michelle O Neill has went on record as saying in the chamber on Monday the Northern Ireland covid rates are much higher than the rest of the UK
Not one person questioned her on this
Which was not correct off course
She has since backtracked and is now saying that we have had a great week in terms of numbers
The mask is slipping
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 05, 2021, 07:42:30 AM
Agree Redhand
A slow opening is required
But also some common sense of what to open
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on March 05, 2021, 07:54:45 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 05, 2021, 07:42:30 AM
Agree Redhand
A slow opening is required
But also some common sense of what to open

Yeah, there's a massive over reaction that when you say start easing restrictions now people just shout ah so you just want us to let it rip??

For example, the weather is changing so more people are gonna be spending time outside so they've been going to hotspots (Newcastle at the weekend there) can't blame people for being wanting to be out and about. So why not get outdoor places open like streamvale farm, the zoo etc. Gets people outside in a controlled environment and with reduced numbers. If you open the outdoor sports as well then straight away you're gonna take a lot of the footfall from the beauty spots away still with minimal risk. To me it's lazy politics we are seeing here at the min
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 05, 2021, 08:53:39 AM
I would agree Mac.  One problem is definitely with so little open everyone funnels to a small number of places.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on March 05, 2021, 08:56:45 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 05, 2021, 08:53:39 AM
I would agree Mac.  One problem is definitely with so little open everyone funnels to a small number of places.

Yeah thats what I was thinking, if everything is closed people will flock to where they can, open more outdoor things and people will be more spread out. its something that could easily be done now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 05, 2021, 09:25:44 AM
If you look at your example of Newcastle last year there were spikes there when very little was open so people flocked there. At present that looks like something that could repeat itself.

Things should be relaxed a bit - not that much but a bit. Outdoor sports, arguably things like hairdressers (ok I am biased as people in my house really need a haircut), maybe gyms I think should move a bit. It has to be done very carefully. (It does bug me that small businesses make huge efforts which hairdressers and gyms would yet you go into Tesco's and they have at best a few half used things of sanitiser and you couldn't distance if you tried).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TabClear on March 05, 2021, 12:30:07 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 05, 2021, 09:25:44 AM
If you look at your example of Newcastle last year there were spikes there when very little was open so people flocked there. At present that looks like something that could repeat itself.

Things should be relaxed a bit - not that much but a bit. Outdoor sports, arguably things like hairdressers (ok I am biased as people in my house really need a haircut), maybe gyms I think should move a bit. It has to be done very carefully. (It does bug me that small businesses make huge efforts which hairdressers and gyms would yet you go into Tesco's and they have at best a few half used things of sanitiser and you couldn't distance if you tried).

My wife would be good friends with a couple of hairdressers and I think that is their major bug bear, they spent a not insignificant amount of money last year on partitions, new waiting areas etc etc and are just in limbo now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TabClear on March 05, 2021, 12:33:48 PM
As far as outdoor sports go there is no reason why that should not be started again, especially the kids. If tey are going to be together at school then having them out running about on a pitch cannot be any worse, Keep the rules like no changing rooms etc as it will have minimal impact below U16 anyway. I know there will be the issue with parents congrgating while watching but that is up to the individual to maintain distancing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 05, 2021, 12:41:43 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 04, 2021, 04:55:25 PM
Got my first jab there, got it in the health centre. Was well run, like clockwork was in and out in 2 mins then wait in the car for 15 and away. Really good to see so many people getting done

Got mine too, albeit in NYC.

Cuomo is in the shit, but whatever else may be going on, NY state have a seriously impressive set-up at the Javitts Center in Manhattan. Industrial scale stuff. I'd say there were nearly ten people per minute being processed when I was there. And that included diverting those with comorbidities for assessment prior to approving them to receive the vaccine.

They're doing Pfizer during the day, and just opened overnight hours for the J&J.

Similar set-up at Yankee Stadium.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 05, 2021, 01:58:26 PM
Interesting viewing especially if you follow banking, quantitative easing and so on..

https://youtu.be/d3GEno9qFtA (https://youtu.be/d3GEno9qFtA)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 05, 2021, 02:14:38 PM
Numbers good again today. 242 inpatients. Massive drop with less than a handful admitted again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 05, 2021, 02:15:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 05, 2021, 02:14:38 PM
Numbers good again today. 242 inpatients. Massive drop with less than a handful admitted again.

Might hit phase two of the relaxations quicker than expected but expect ballbags to do ballbag things on St Patricks day..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 05, 2021, 02:24:03 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 05, 2021, 02:15:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 05, 2021, 02:14:38 PM
Numbers good again today. 242 inpatients. Massive drop with less than a handful admitted again.

Might hit phase two of the relaxations quicker than expected but expect ballbags to do ballbag things on St Patricks day..


I don't know. Unless it's a sunny day then I can't see too many getting excited about it and it help that it's midweek. The holylands will have an underground gathering of sorts for sure but beyond that I can't see too much happening.

Easter Sunday and the 4 day weekend is much more likely for families mingling.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 05, 2021, 02:39:35 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 05, 2021, 02:15:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 05, 2021, 02:14:38 PM
Numbers good again today. 242 inpatients. Massive drop with less than a handful admitted again.

Might hit phase two of the relaxations quicker than expected but expect ballbags to do ballbag things on St Patricks day..

At current rate there will be very few in hospital in a couple of weeks. Yeah st Patrick's day will have "breaches". Tbh I don't think whether there's a lockdown or not would impact the behaviour of people like that anyway.

Also as I said I do wonder if with so little being opened people are being funnelled to the very few open spaces. (Then people complain but when you have small kids and dogs what the hell are you meant to do)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 05, 2021, 03:22:52 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 05, 2021, 02:39:35 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 05, 2021, 02:15:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 05, 2021, 02:14:38 PM
Numbers good again today. 242 inpatients. Massive drop with less than a handful admitted again.

Might hit phase two of the relaxations quicker than expected but expect ballbags to do ballbag things on St Patricks day..

At current rate there will be very few in hospital in a couple of weeks. Yeah st Patrick's day will have "breaches". Tbh I don't think whether there's a lockdown or not would impact the behaviour of people like that anyway.

Also as I said I do wonder if with so little being opened people are being funnelled to the very few open spaces. (Then people complain but when you have small kids and dogs what the hell are you meant to do)

I actually was in it, believe it or not there a few weekends ago, serious cars in it for a place I thought would be empty. So I take it they've been drinking away in it all throughout anyway. Wouldn't expect St Patricks Day would offer the traditional mess with all the fines etc that come with covid breaches and the Police will be mad looking to nail anyone stupid enough to draw attention to themselves. I was in it about midday to be fair and it was very quiet, despite the mass of cars.

On the flip side, these ones don't really care about the pandemic.....yeah I know they should, but no point sticking the head in the sand either. The way they see it, they are paying 200 quid odd a month for their house, they will be getting their use out of it. As always....it probably will be the ones that make their way down for the day rather than the ones actually there week to week.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on March 05, 2021, 05:27:04 PM
I detest the tories with every part of me, and Matt Hancocks crocodile tears earlier in the year really pissed me off, but just watching his briefing here, Robin Swann should have the notepad out. he shows the stats and explains them, its showing the numbers falling off the cliff like I said, by looking at the data the other day it was glaringly obvious to me with zero medical background that the vaccine is smashing Covid. Good to see Matt Hancock come out and say it, really upbeat from him. Positivity gives people a lift. I have no horse in the race in England, but even listening to MH I felt positive and lifted my mood. Hopefully our govt can take some pointers from this tonight. Makes so much sense, restrictions being replaced with vaccines and testing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 05, 2021, 08:01:33 PM
Part of me always knew the NHS workers were never getting much of a payrise, but 1%. Why do these politicians do this to themselves.

They would have been safer just saying your getting nothing than 1%.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 05, 2021, 09:07:50 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 05, 2021, 08:01:33 PM
Part of me always knew the NHS workers were never getting much of a payrise, but 1%. Why do these politicians do this to themselves.

They would have been safer just saying your getting nothing than 1%.

Scandalous when you see the money they are pulling out their arses for everyone to sit in the house
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 05, 2021, 09:57:06 PM
Way more scandalous the amount of money they are giving to their cronies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 06, 2021, 03:52:20 PM
A "massive" turn out of 450 at the non socially distanced, non mask wearing anti lockdown protest in Cork.
That'll show the rest of us ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 06, 2021, 06:00:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 06, 2021, 03:52:20 PM
A "massive" turn out of 450 at the non socially distanced, non mask wearing anti lockdown protest in Cork.
That'll show the rest of us ::)

I've seen more non mask people at the Cavehill this morning!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 06, 2021, 06:13:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 05, 2021, 09:57:06 PM
Way more scandalous the amount of money they are giving to their cronies.

And Rees Mogg stands up in Westminster, with a straight face and says the successful vaccine roll out (to date) would not have been possible if they hadn't spunked all that money on their buddies non existent PPE.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on March 06, 2021, 06:14:56 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 05, 2021, 08:01:33 PM
Part of me always knew the NHS workers were never getting much of a payrise, but 1%. Why do these politicians do this to themselves.

They would have been safer just saying your getting nothing than 1%.

It's bad politics, they will probably cave anyway. Why not just give 2 or 2.5% and probably wouldn't have been another word of it. NHS staff know as public servants there isn't going to be massive pay increases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 06, 2021, 07:03:46 PM
Legal challenge incoming- A lot of NHS staff are still due the last year of a 3 year deal agreed under Theresa May @ 2.1%
BBC News - NHS staff vote for 6.5% pay deal
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44413436
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Downtothewire on March 06, 2021, 10:09:51 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 05, 2021, 08:01:33 PM
Part of me always knew the NHS workers were never getting much of a payrise, but 1%. Why do these politicians do this to themselves.

They would have been safer just saying your getting nothing than 1%.

It's a toe in the water job, try 1% tell them money is tight and see how it goes. If there's not much opposition quids in, if there is play hardball and eventually end up at 2.5%
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 07, 2021, 09:06:31 AM
Before anyone has a go at me I'm not advocating a big opening but I'm asking why have we not already moved to level 2

We have done our bit
Played by the rules
Stayed at home
Wore our masks
Socially distance
Livelihoods lost


And now
The vulnerable have now been vaccinated
Hospital numbers falling quickly


It's time this government give us something in return here
I think they get an easy ride from journalists
Easy questions asked at the press briefings

Say what you like about him but Nolan as far as what I have seen has been the only one to ask a hard question. And when he did Robbie Swann had a melt down. He had no answers

Time to give something back

The question I ask and will someone here give me an answer why are we not in level 2 already?
In that case level 5 must be zero covid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 07, 2021, 09:23:00 AM
The second you brought Nolan into it you've lost me!

Schools are back on Monday, then secondary back in couple weeks, let's look at the impact on that. This lockdown is nowhere near being observed the same as the first one.

Back early and we go back into lockdown number 4

We've waited this long, let's get it right, another lockdown would finish the economy completely.

Ive already said we'll be able to live with Covid when everyone is vaccinated, we won't have zero Covid, it's here to stay, but we'll have reduced the sickness that comes from it. Just because the vulnerable have had one jab so far doesn't mean they are covered, the second jab (after 3 weeks) will give them safety.

If 30% of the people don't get vaccinated then you can blame them for it mutating

They seem really concerned with this Brazilian variant and is this the one that's covered by the vaccines?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 07, 2021, 09:45:39 AM
With due respect I'm not buying that one

3 classes are back Monday!
We are in a big lockdown
As many said here the reason why we are seeing many gather in beauty spots is that's all many can do
If for example sports were on many weekends would be spent at that and take many away from these beauty spots. Would that not even have crossed the minds of our political leaders?

But we keep moving the goalposts here! We not tell us we are locking down until we have zero people in hospitals? Instead of protecting the NHS? As It stands the NHS is protected?

And I'll ask the question again if we are not at level 2 now then when?
Can someone please even guess what the data needs to be?

For example
Yesterday
1 hospital admission and 21 leaving hospital
27 in icu
220 inpatients down from 343 the week before
640000 vaccinated


In my estimation when the review the situation on the 18th of Match hospitals will be close to double figures
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 07, 2021, 11:20:47 AM
Has the government come out and said we are locking down till we have zero Covid or hospital admissions?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 07, 2021, 11:42:59 AM
Swann really should say what the data is to drive the decisions he makes.

It isn't zero COVID or hospital admissions mind you or there wouldn't be any roadmap.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on March 07, 2021, 12:56:22 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 07, 2021, 11:42:59 AM
Swann really should say what the data is to drive the decisions he makes.

It isn't zero COVID or hospital admissions mind you or there wouldn't be any roadmap.

When they opened up for Christmas it was a disaster and caused the numbers to skyrocket. I think they're just being ultra cautious with Easter coming up. They'll wait till after Easter and a few things will open then. If we open before then families will meet up indoors and a lot of the progress will be lost.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 07, 2021, 02:11:03 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 07, 2021, 12:56:22 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 07, 2021, 11:42:59 AM
Swann really should say what the data is to drive the decisions he makes.

It isn't zero COVID or hospital admissions mind you or there wouldn't be any roadmap.

When they opened up for Christmas it was a disaster and caused the numbers to skyrocket. I think they're just being ultra cautious with Easter coming up. They'll wait till after Easter and a few things will open then. If we open before then families will meet up indoors and a lot of the progress will be lost.
Are families not meeting up? Lockdown is totally over as far as I can see.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 07, 2021, 02:13:29 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 07, 2021, 02:11:03 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 07, 2021, 12:56:22 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 07, 2021, 11:42:59 AM
Swann really should say what the data is to drive the decisions he makes.

It isn't zero COVID or hospital admissions mind you or there wouldn't be any roadmap.

When they opened up for Christmas it was a disaster and caused the numbers to skyrocket. I think they're just being ultra cautious with Easter coming up. They'll wait till after Easter and a few things will open then. If we open before then families will meet up indoors and a lot of the progress will be lost.
Are families not meeting up? Lockdown is totally over as far as I can see.

If it's over then why are people complaining about being caged up?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 07, 2021, 02:48:35 PM
Are we not caged up?
Stay at home unless essential travel
How is that not caged up?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 07, 2021, 03:38:25 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 07, 2021, 02:48:35 PM
Are we not caged up?
Stay at home unless essential travel
How is that not caged up?

Go out for a walk, clear your head
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 07, 2021, 03:45:04 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 07, 2021, 02:48:35 PM
Are we not caged up?
Stay at home unless essential travel
How is that not caged up?

Caged up? Sweet jesus Smurfy, that's the kind of hysterical nonsense that serves zero purpose. I've been up since 8. Spent a few hours gardening, out for a run and a family cycle. Watching a bit of the game now. Caged up, don't think so. Weathering the end of this storm, yes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 07, 2021, 06:05:30 PM
ROI weekly update. The decent progress continues.

Cases 3660 (914 fewer than last week)
Reported Deaths 105 (80 fewer than last week)

In hospital 423 (131 fewer than a week ago)
In ICU 103 (30 fewer than a week ago)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on March 07, 2021, 08:47:27 PM
At last, some common sense from the NI First Minister ...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56314949
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 07, 2021, 08:50:55 PM
Didn't expect to read that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 07, 2021, 09:36:42 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 07, 2021, 08:50:55 PM
Didn't expect to read that.

She is just showing off.
Offering vaccines at the end is of no practical use, in June there will be plenty of vaccines the problem will be getting them into people. Offering vaccines next week would a help.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 07, 2021, 11:41:05 PM
It's as snide as f**k, a verbal payback for all the bullshit talk of the need for cooperation that was coming the other way last year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 08, 2021, 12:23:44 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 07, 2021, 11:41:05 PM
It's as snide as f**k, a verbal payback for all the bullshit talk of the need for cooperation that was coming the other way last year.

DUP policies killed more people in the last year than the Provos managed in any year of the Troubles.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on March 08, 2021, 09:04:33 AM
Prob be a spike now after the scenes throughout the north last night, infuriating that these morons will prob mean we are set back weeks, peoples lives and livelihoods on the line and the cops allowed that to happen, complete disgrace. and for the record id have the exact same view if it was Celtic/ Liverpool/ Man Utd/ Linfield or Cliftonville fans, morons of the highest order.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 08, 2021, 10:27:41 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 07, 2021, 11:42:59 AM
Swann really should say what the data is to drive the decisions he makes.

It isn't zero COVID or hospital admissions mind you or there wouldn't be any roadmap.

Robin Swann doesn't really have much of a clue. It's McBride driving him. Swann was meant to quit as Health Minister before this all kicked off.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 09, 2021, 05:45:38 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/rtenews/status/1368988664160784384
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 09, 2021, 05:47:45 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on March 07, 2021, 08:47:27 PM
At last, some common sense from the NI First Minister ...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56314949

Anything that makes the South look bad appeals to her.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 09, 2021, 03:59:04 PM
600k vaccinated in the North by tomorrow.

Surely we have to have something opened up in April.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2021, 04:40:19 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 09, 2021, 03:59:04 PM
600k vaccinated in the North by tomorrow.

Surely we have to have something opened up in April.

600k with the first jab?  I hope we can jump from stage 2 to 3 very quickly.

Hopefully we can double that number in the next couple of months, I'll be getting my second jab on the 1st April so I'd say the most at risk will have had their second jab by then.

I think they mentioned all adults by the summer to have had at least one jab?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 09, 2021, 04:45:12 PM
It's becoming a casedamic! 240 cases in the north today a rise but only 5 people needed hospital treatment that includes someone that went in for something else and caught it
1.5 million tests done in the UK today with 5700 positives. 1.5 million!!!
When is the time right to move completely away from cases
As was mentioned 600000 first vaccinations by tomorrow and it's about to ramp up tenfold from Friday
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 09, 2021, 04:45:35 PM
First vaccine, not sure how the 2nd one is going but they seem happy enough to get the first one in then "boost" after. Not sure that's entirely the way it was meant to go but if it works it works.

This mass vaccination centre seems to be what will get the rest of the job done at the Odyssey in next few months.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2021, 04:56:57 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 09, 2021, 04:45:35 PM
First vaccine, not sure how the 2nd one is going but they seem happy enough to get the first one in then "boost" after. Not sure that's entirely the way it was meant to go but if it works it works.

This mass vaccination centre seems to be what will get the rest of the job done at the Odyssey in next few months.

Its strange, as they give out the dates there and then for the ones getting the vaccine at the hospitals, but not for those in the GP's (for second dose)

The Odyssey will certainly ramp it up, but we need everyone, well a good percentage to take the vaccine otherwise its pointless.

The second jab was meant to be after 3 weeks, but in the rush to get everyone vaccinated at least with one jab, that part was brushed under the carpet.

Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 09, 2021, 04:45:12 PM
It's becoming a casedamic! 240 cases in the north today a rise but only 5 people needed hospital treatment that includes someone that went in for something else and caught it
1.5 million tests done in the UK today with 5700 positives. 1.5 million!!!
When is the time right to move completely away from cases
As was mentioned 600000 first vaccinations by tomorrow and it's about to ramp up tenfold from Friday

I'm unclear in what you mean here, is that 1.5 million people with the first jab and there is still 5700 positive tests or 5700 people have tested positive after getting the vaccine?  You know there are 65 million people living in Britain, covid is still being passed on to people who haven't been vaccinated and who are not social distancing or following the health and safety line
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on March 09, 2021, 05:13:11 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 09, 2021, 04:45:12 PM
It's becoming a casedamic! 240 cases in the north today a rise but only 5 people needed hospital treatment that includes someone that went in for something else and caught it
1.5 million tests done in the UK today with 5700 positives. 1.5 million!!!
When is the time right to move completely away from cases
As was mentioned 600000 first vaccinations by tomorrow and it's about to ramp up tenfold from Friday

They said from the start that there would be a 2 week lag or so between someone testing positive and needing hospital treatment. I remember people talking about a casedemic last September when cases were rising but admissions weren't. Within a few weeks the hospital numbers had jumped. Hopefully the vaccine has an impact this time. But no point comparing numbers today to admissions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 09, 2021, 05:59:23 PM
Red hand the big difference between now and then is 600000 vaccinated
90% of the top 9 priority groups
Genuine question for all.
Has anyone let there guard down lately?
Meeting up with 2 or more friends?
I know I have
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 09, 2021, 06:09:52 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 09, 2021, 05:59:23 PM
Red hand the big difference between now and then is 600000 vaccinated
90% of the top 9 priority groups
Genuine question for all.
Has anyone let there guard down lately?
Meeting up with 2 or more friends?
I know I have

Geniunely no. What are you talking, indoor lads drinking session? I can't wait to have a few beers with some men. Get the next few weeks by us and see how the numbers are fixed. #sheeple
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 09, 2021, 06:17:02 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 09, 2021, 05:13:11 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 09, 2021, 04:45:12 PM
It's becoming a casedamic! 240 cases in the north today a rise but only 5 people needed hospital treatment that includes someone that went in for something else and caught it
1.5 million tests done in the UK today with 5700 positives. 1.5 million!!!
When is the time right to move completely away from cases
As was mentioned 600000 first vaccinations by tomorrow and it's about to ramp up tenfold from Friday

They said from the start that there would be a 2 week lag or so between someone testing positive and needing hospital treatment. I remember people talking about a casedemic last September when cases were rising but admissions weren't. Within a few weeks the hospital numbers had jumped. Hopefully the vaccine has an impact this time. But no point comparing numbers today to admissions.

Yeah cases are really just a barometer for what is coming down the line.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 09, 2021, 06:25:48 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 09, 2021, 05:59:23 PM
Red hand the big difference between now and then is 600000 vaccinated
90% of the top 9 priority groups
Genuine question for all.
Has anyone let there guard down lately?
Meeting up with 2 or more friends?
I know I have

So you're meeting up with 2 or more friends and wondering why we have high cases of people getting Covid? Can we put this in the Darwin thread?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 09, 2021, 06:32:38 PM
The vaccines have changed the ratio between cases and severe illness. The main danger is that people will lose the run of themselves and prematurely start acting like Glasgow Rangers supporters.

Good to see feck all Covid now in South Armagh, that's a big change in 6 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 10, 2021, 07:03:16 AM
No I haven't had friends around for drinks in my house
I have met up with 2 or more friends from a different household to walk mountains
And looking around it seems a lot have
Cases have gone up and that's a clear sign people are no longer sticking to the rules
People will go round to friends and drink at weekends now for a catch up
Now if the government were smart about this they maybe should open up cafes with strict rules around them
Imagine the difference if for example you could sit and meet a friend outside a household
You would take that instead of inviting around to ones house
As someone said here before opening outdoor sports
Instead of every Tom Dick and Harry going to the beauty spots every Saturday and Sunday if outdoor sports was allowed I would imagine a lot of us mountain climbers wouldn't be near them if we had other outlets

So with cases now on the rise what does Milly and the lads think now?
Keep locking us up??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: In hiding on March 10, 2021, 07:44:58 AM
Where can you find the age breakdown of the 230 people who tested positive yesterday.
Were there many over 70s ?
Is the vaccine working ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2021, 08:01:34 AM
Smackhead, you are the reason numbers are rising, meeting up with friends is not allowed for a reason, essential travel, you were waffling on about being caged up and actually, you are walking mountains! Do you honestly read your own posts?

And you finish up by saying, should we still be locked up! Amazing.

They will open up cafes, they said they will, but when we have clowns meeting up and spreading the virus then these selfish cnuts are ruining it for everyone else, they said they are going with data, if numbers are rising then that's negative data.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 08:37:30 AM
Quote from: In hiding on March 10, 2021, 07:44:58 AM
Where can you find the age breakdown of the 230 people who tested positive yesterday.
Were there many over 70s ?
Is the vaccine working ?

for the north there is the dashboard they have publicly available...

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9 (https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9)

I dunno which page this comes through too as it's one of those power BI apps so difficult to link.  In the last 7 days 26 of the positives have been in over 80s, 157 in the 60-79 category. These are the two lowest with 0-19 the next lowest. (That is from the covid 19 testing in the last 7 days page - you can get a lot of detail on these pages which is why it amazes me that numbers seem to get continually made up here when there are objective numbers here lol)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: naka on March 10, 2021, 11:47:22 AM
Quote from: In hiding on March 10, 2021, 07:44:58 AM
Where can you find the age breakdown of the 230 people who tested positive yesterday.
Were there many over 70s ?
Is the vaccine working ?
the vaccine doesnt stop one getting covid , it simply reduces the effects of covid on the person
covid will still be about
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 10, 2021, 12:24:27 PM
Quote from: naka on March 10, 2021, 11:47:22 AM
Quote from: In hiding on March 10, 2021, 07:44:58 AM
Where can you find the age breakdown of the 230 people who tested positive yesterday.
Were there many over 70s ?
Is the vaccine working ?
the vaccine doesnt stop one getting covid , it simply reduces the effects of covid on the person
covid will still be about

Exactly, its purpose is to reduce the death rate and make it a treatable illness, like the Flu  ;) then we can go about as normal
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on March 10, 2021, 01:02:13 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/PYnQYBN/Vaccine.png) (https://ibb.co/8BpcBF0)

I think the above is the relevant data from the north's dashboard, and at a glance it does seem like the vaccine is doing something.

First two weeks of the year in the 80+ group the proportion of tests returning positive was 11.7%
Most recent two weeks in the 80+ group the proportion of tests returning positive was 1.3%

But the proportion of tests returning positive is down across all age groups. This is the impact of the lockdown. However, to use the (largely unvaccinated) 20-39 age group as a control, it does seem like the percentage of those testing positive is falling much more steeply in the vaccinated age groups.

First two weeks of the year in the 20-39 age group the proportion of tests returning positive was 16.8%
Most recent two weeks in the 20-39 age group the proportion of tests returning positive was 4.8%

So in early January a young person taking a Covid test was 44% more likely to test positive than someone over 80 taking a test (16.8 v 11.7). Now a young person is 369% more likely to test positive than a person over 80 (4.8 v 1.3), who has probably had the vaccine.

Very rough calculations that don't tell anything like the full story, but still, it looks to me like the vaccine is doing its job. The picture will become more clear as things reopen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 10, 2021, 01:28:00 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 10, 2021, 01:02:13 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/PYnQYBN/Vaccine.png) (https://ibb.co/8BpcBF0)

I think the above is the relevant data from the north's dashboard, and at a glance it does seem like the vaccine is doing something.

First two weeks of the year in the 80+ group the proportion of tests returning positive was 11.7%
Most recent two weeks in the 80+ group the proportion of tests returning positive was 1.3%

But the proportion of tests returning positive is down across all age groups. This is the impact of the lockdown. However, to use the (largely unvaccinated) 20-39 age group as a control, it does seem like the percentage of those testing positive is falling much more steeply in the vaccinated age groups.

First two weeks of the year in the 20-39 age group the proportion of tests returning positive was 16.8%
Most recent two weeks in the 20-39 age group the proportion of tests returning positive was 4.8%

So in early January a young person taking a Covid test was 44% more likely to test positive than someone over 80 taking a test (16.8 v 11.7). Now a young person is 369% more likely to test positive than a person over 80 (4.8 v 1.3), who has probably had the vaccine.

Very rough calculations that don't tell anything like the full story, but still, it looks to me like the vaccine is doing its job. The picture will become more clear as things reopen.

But that cannot be anything to do with the vaccine - the vaccine makes you less sick - it doesnt stop you getting or spreading it - unless my understanding is skewered?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 10, 2021, 01:38:51 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 10, 2021, 01:28:00 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 10, 2021, 01:02:13 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/PYnQYBN/Vaccine.png) (https://ibb.co/8BpcBF0)

I think the above is the relevant data from the north's dashboard, and at a glance it does seem like the vaccine is doing something.

First two weeks of the year in the 80+ group the proportion of tests returning positive was 11.7%
Most recent two weeks in the 80+ group the proportion of tests returning positive was 1.3%

But the proportion of tests returning positive is down across all age groups. This is the impact of the lockdown. However, to use the (largely unvaccinated) 20-39 age group as a control, it does seem like the percentage of those testing positive is falling much more steeply in the vaccinated age groups.

First two weeks of the year in the 20-39 age group the proportion of tests returning positive was 16.8%
Most recent two weeks in the 20-39 age group the proportion of tests returning positive was 4.8%

So in early January a young person taking a Covid test was 44% more likely to test positive than someone over 80 taking a test (16.8 v 11.7). Now a young person is 369% more likely to test positive than a person over 80 (4.8 v 1.3), who has probably had the vaccine.

Very rough calculations that don't tell anything like the full story, but still, it looks to me like the vaccine is doing its job. The picture will become more clear as things reopen.

But that cannot be anything to do with the vaccine - the vaccine makes you less sick - it doesnt stop you getting or spreading it - unless my understanding is skewered?
makes you less likely to get it or spread it as far as I know
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on March 10, 2021, 01:43:33 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 10, 2021, 01:28:00 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 10, 2021, 01:02:13 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/PYnQYBN/Vaccine.png) (https://ibb.co/8BpcBF0)

I think the above is the relevant data from the north's dashboard, and at a glance it does seem like the vaccine is doing something.

First two weeks of the year in the 80+ group the proportion of tests returning positive was 11.7%
Most recent two weeks in the 80+ group the proportion of tests returning positive was 1.3%

But the proportion of tests returning positive is down across all age groups. This is the impact of the lockdown. However, to use the (largely unvaccinated) 20-39 age group as a control, it does seem like the percentage of those testing positive is falling much more steeply in the vaccinated age groups.

First two weeks of the year in the 20-39 age group the proportion of tests returning positive was 16.8%
Most recent two weeks in the 20-39 age group the proportion of tests returning positive was 4.8%

So in early January a young person taking a Covid test was 44% more likely to test positive than someone over 80 taking a test (16.8 v 11.7). Now a young person is 369% more likely to test positive than a person over 80 (4.8 v 1.3), who has probably had the vaccine.

Very rough calculations that don't tell anything like the full story, but still, it looks to me like the vaccine is doing its job. The picture will become more clear as things reopen.

But that cannot be anything to do with the vaccine - the vaccine makes you less sick - it doesnt stop you getting or spreading it - unless my understanding is skewered?
I could be wrong here, but is it not just that they don't have the data to prove that yet? Historically has vaccines not been found to do just that, especially were the viral load is  such a factor in transmissibility? Again open to correction here, that was my limited interpretation of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on March 10, 2021, 01:52:02 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 10, 2021, 01:43:33 PM
I could be wrong here, but is it not just that they don't have the data to prove that yet? Historically has vaccines not been found to do just that, especially were the viral load is  such a factor in transmissibility? Again open to correction here, that was my limited interpretation of it.

That's my understanding too. Can't promise that vaccines will cut transmission without the data, but the logic is that they probably will.

It's just going to take a while to collect, analyse and publish the relevant data.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 10, 2021, 02:13:45 PM
The proof is not yet in, but all indicators are, that having the vaccine reduces your viral load....as a result lowers your ability to spread. The Isrealis I think put out a study saying it reduced symptom transmission by 85%, asymtomatic was a bit lower if I recall correctly both after a certain number of days.

The vaccine is still the way out, but yeah....it doesn't actually stop you getting it....or spreading it. But hopefully the uptake of the vaccine in turn with help push through this "herd immunity".

It's still a better spot to be in than we were 6 months ago. It's going the right way.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 10, 2021, 02:49:57 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 10, 2021, 01:52:02 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on March 10, 2021, 01:43:33 PM
I could be wrong here, but is it not just that they don't have the data to prove that yet? Historically has vaccines not been found to do just that, especially were the viral load is  such a factor in transmissibility? Again open to correction here, that was my limited interpretation of it.

That's my understanding too. Can't promise that vaccines will cut transmission without the data, but the logic is that they probably will.

It's just going to take a while to collect, analyse and publish the relevant data.

From Israel, it seems to eliminate three-quarters or more of transmission. This would increase the R rate. So if most people were vaccinated and you still had some restrictions than the virus would die out in that country as each person would infect less than one other person.
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/coronavirus/1615215547-under-1-of-fully-vaccinated-israelis-contracted-covid-19-health-ministry-reports
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 10, 2021, 05:08:02 PM
Celebrity McBride doom and gloom on again about don't plan anything for Patrick's day or Easter. Then it will be May Day. Then the 12th and so on
4 people admitted to hospital today in a population of 1.9 millions
Our biggest order of vaccines has arrived
Only 50 over 85s have passed away on four consecutive days in the uk in January that number was 597. And I say that with the upmost respect to each of those
When is celebrity McBride going to give us some hope
Any hope
Just something to cling onto
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 10, 2021, 05:14:45 PM
Next review is 18th March, but I'm sure you knew that. You know talking shite on an Internet discussion board will change nothing right?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on March 10, 2021, 05:16:53 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 10, 2021, 05:08:02 PM
Celebrity McBride doom and gloom on again about don't plan anything for Patrick's day or Easter. Then it will be May Day. Then the 12th and so on
4 people admitted to hospital today in a population of 1.9 millions
Our biggest order of vaccines has arrived
Only 50 over 85s have passed away on four consecutive days in the uk in January that number was 597. And I say that with the upmost respect to each of those
When is celebrity McBride going to give us some hope
Any hope
Just something to cling onto

Yesterday you said the previous day 5 people had been admitted to hospital. If you look that number has now been updated to 14 (the previous days number always seems to be too low as data must not be through). Also I notice you didn't mention 8 people died of covid in the last 24 hours here - not sure why the jump - wonder if there was an outbreak in a hospital or something.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 10, 2021, 06:16:18 PM
47 more deaths and 631 new cases in the 26  :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 10, 2021, 06:33:54 PM
It hasn't gone away ya know :-X
601,000 1st jabs in the 6, 47,000 got 2nd.
Circa 350,000 and 160,000 here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 10, 2021, 06:36:31 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 10, 2021, 05:16:53 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 10, 2021, 05:08:02 PM
Celebrity McBride doom and gloom on again about don't plan anything for Patrick's day or Easter. Then it will be May Day. Then the 12th and so on
4 people admitted to hospital today in a population of 1.9 millions
Our biggest order of vaccines has arrived
Only 50 over 85s have passed away on four consecutive days in the uk in January that number was 597. And I say that with the upmost respect to each of those
When is celebrity McBride going to give us some hope
Any hope
Just something to cling onto

Yesterday you said the previous day 5 people had been admitted to hospital. If you look that number has now been updated to 14 (the previous days number always seems to be too low as data must not be through). Also I notice you didn't mention 8 people died of covid in the last 24 hours here - not sure why the jump - wonder if there was an outbreak in a hospital or something.

Yeah they seem to not get all the numbers the next day so you can see a jump alright. The numbers were basically exponentially decreasing for a good while there but that has tapered off and we seem to have pretty much flatlined. Thankfully more are going out of hospital than coming in so that is progress.

Not good on eight deaths as that is definitely a jump :(

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on March 10, 2021, 06:43:08 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 10, 2021, 06:16:18 PM
47 more deaths and 631 new cases in the 26  :-\

The usual mid week bump. 14 of these deaths occurred in March.


7-day average in cases 490. Last Wednesday it was 623.

370 patients are hospitalised, 489 it was last Wednesday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 11, 2021, 10:48:23 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 10, 2021, 06:43:08 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 10, 2021, 06:16:18 PM
47 more deaths and 631 new cases in the 26  :-\

The usual mid week bump. 14 of these deaths occurred in March.


7-day average in cases 490. Last Wednesday it was 623.

370 patients are hospitalised, 489 it was last Wednesday.

I am surprised that they haven't got a handle on death numbers. Reporting of deaths for legal purposes is a bit tardy, but for disease control purposes then whoever signs a death cert should be required to report that there and then. There is only a limited set of people who can certify a death and these should have a login to report the death.

Cases are declining about 20% a week. Still a bit to go.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2021, 11:03:40 AM
Quote from: clarshack on March 11, 2021, 10:56:00 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0311/1203346-coronavirus-vaccine/

I've never been anti-vaccine but this time I think i'll go with my immune system and a 99.97% recovery rate.

What about your ability to pass it on to others? You're happy with that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on March 11, 2021, 11:11:11 AM
That's bordering on an existential question MR2.

Blood clots can be extremely dangerous regardless of your age or  health.

Covid is (seemingly) only extremely dangerous if you have a weakened immune system.

So should subject A risk a clot to minimise the risk of subject B and C contracting Covid? Why are B and C more important than A?

——

Not telling you that you're wrong by the way. But Clarshack ain't wrong either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2021, 11:15:47 AM
Quote from: clarshack on March 11, 2021, 11:11:53 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2021, 11:03:40 AM
Quote from: clarshack on March 11, 2021, 10:56:00 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0311/1203346-coronavirus-vaccine/

I've never been anti-vaccine but this time I think i'll go with my immune system and a 99.97% recovery rate.

What about your ability to pass it on to others? You're happy with that?

Is there evidence that the vaccine stops transmission?

I don't know, is there evidence if you have Covid you can pass it on?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on March 11, 2021, 11:42:26 AM
Quote from: clarshack on March 11, 2021, 10:56:00 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0311/1203346-coronavirus-vaccine/

I've never been anti-vaccine but this time I think i'll go with my immune system and a 99.97% recovery rate.

5% of people seem to get long covid. It seems to be from all ages and nobody knows what makes certain people prone to getting it. I've seen a few people on the tv recently who've got long covid and it's basically left them as invalids. There is no guarantee that they will make any kind of recovery or that their quality of life will improve. To me the vaccine is a no brainer when you are vastly reducing the chances of serious long term illness or death.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on March 11, 2021, 11:48:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on March 11, 2021, 10:56:00 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0311/1203346-coronavirus-vaccine/

I've never been anti-vaccine but this time I think i'll go with my immune system and a 99.97% recovery rate.

Not dead ≠ recovery
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 11, 2021, 11:51:56 AM
Quote from: lenny on March 11, 2021, 11:42:26 AM
Quote from: clarshack on March 11, 2021, 10:56:00 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0311/1203346-coronavirus-vaccine/

I've never been anti-vaccine but this time I think i'll go with my immune system and a 99.97% recovery rate.

5% of people seem to get long covid. It seems to be from all ages and nobody knows what makes certain people prone to getting it. I've seen a few people on the tv recently who've got long covid and it's basically left them as invalids. There is no guarantee that they will make any kind of recovery or that their quality of life will improve. To me the vaccine is a no brainer when you are vastly reducing the chances of serious long term illness or death.

I'd agree 100%, an, absolute no brainer. You've parents who have their wains vaxxed to the hilt, are now refusing a vaccine that will help the planet out of this mess. You either trust science or you don't. The vaccine passport to travel will, without a doubt, have the % of the population vaccinated  very high. We'll see how principled alot of the new social media age anti vaxers are then. PS: I'd never dream of forcing someone against their will btw
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on March 11, 2021, 11:59:27 AM
Quote from: clarshack on March 11, 2021, 10:56:00 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0311/1203346-coronavirus-vaccine/

I've never been anti-vaccine but this time I think i'll go with my immune system and a 99.97% recovery rate.

The fact they refer to suspending use from "specific manufacturing batch" would indicate that that the concern is around production or supply chain rather than the vaccine itself.

If so, it's all pretty standard stuff tbf and these kind of investigations/recalls happen all the time on manufacturing batches. Lots of drug production is outsourced, so it's likely that the same drug can be manufactured in completely different plants with different supply chains. They all go through the same quality controls but they still need to investigate. Could be a complete coincidence but ultimately due process will be followed and precautionary measures have been take.

This article is very poorly written and only contributes to the vaccine misinformation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 11, 2021, 12:58:50 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2021, 11:03:40 AM
Quote from: clarshack on March 11, 2021, 10:56:00 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0311/1203346-coronavirus-vaccine/

I've never been anti-vaccine but this time I think i'll go with my immune system and a 99.97% recovery rate.

What about your ability to pass it on to others? You're happy with that?

We see the rise of the Mé Féiners.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on March 11, 2021, 01:10:24 PM
I'm very pleased to say I got my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine last Sunday. The staff at the South Lakes Centre in Craigavon were fantastic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 11, 2021, 01:20:46 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on March 11, 2021, 01:10:24 PM
I'm very pleased to say I got my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine last Sunday. The staff at the South Lakes Centre in Craigavon were fantastic.

And just to accentuate the happy feeling, results from Israel show that the Pfizer vaccine is even better than they thought
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0311/1203346-coronavirus-vaccine/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 11, 2021, 01:37:32 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 11, 2021, 11:11:11 AM
That's bordering on an existential question MR2.

Blood clots can be extremely dangerous regardless of your age or  health.

Covid is (seemingly) only extremely dangerous if you have a weakened immune system.

So should subject A risk a clot to minimise the risk of subject B and C contracting Covid? Why are B and C more important than A?

——

Not telling you that you're wrong by the way. But Clarshack ain't wrong either.

The article doesn't establish the level of risk. What are the levels of risk of people dying from blood clots vs the risk of people  from Covid when infected? If we get those as a starting point then we might be able to see where the risk lies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 03:37:26 PM
9 deaths today so ramping up unfortunately :(

On the plus side looks like less than 200 in the hospital for the first time in a very long time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 11, 2021, 04:05:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 11, 2021, 01:20:46 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on March 11, 2021, 01:10:24 PM
I'm very pleased to say I got my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine last Sunday. The staff at the South Lakes Centre in Craigavon were fantastic.

And just to accentuate the happy feeling, results from Israel show that the Pfizer vaccine is even better than they thought
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0311/1203346-coronavirus-vaccine/

Excellent. Got my first Pfizer dose last week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 11, 2021, 04:37:45 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2021, 03:37:26 PM
9 deaths today so ramping up unfortunately :(

On the plus side looks like less than 200 in the hospital for the first time in a very long time.

They need to get all the regular treatment going again, that has been disrupted for two thirds of the last year in some cases. The backlog will be horrendous.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 11, 2021, 10:01:00 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 11, 2021, 11:11:53 AM
Is there evidence that the vaccine stops transmission?

Yes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 12, 2021, 06:59:10 AM
Plenty of real life evidence that it stops transmission
If I was putting 2 and 2 together I would say the outbreak at Belfast city hospital last week has something to do with ye high number of deaths Wednesday and Thursday?

A big day Tuesday for the executive. Will any restrictions be lifted?
By then we are likely to have double figures in hospital if the drop rate continues. 170 approx in now
At what numbers in hospital is it hard not to start lifting restrictions.
By Easter we have the potential of as low as 10 or 20 in hospital
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on March 12, 2021, 10:35:06 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 11, 2021, 11:48:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on March 11, 2021, 10:56:00 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0311/1203346-coronavirus-vaccine/

I've never been anti-vaccine but this time I think i'll go with my immune system and a 99.97% recovery rate.

Not dead ≠ recovery

I was talking to a doctor yesterday evening and he was telling me that the latest thinking around the people who have long COVID is that it's something they're going to have to live with. The research shows that there is chronic damage to the heart which is causing the fatigue and there is no treatment which is going to help. Considering that around 5% of infected people go on to get long COVID including young people then that's an extremely serious risk.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on March 12, 2021, 03:38:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 12, 2021, 10:35:06 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 11, 2021, 11:48:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on March 11, 2021, 10:56:00 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0311/1203346-coronavirus-vaccine/

I've never been anti-vaccine but this time I think i'll go with my immune system and a 99.97% recovery rate.

Not dead ≠ recovery

I was talking to a doctor yesterday evening and he was telling me that the latest thinking around the people who have long COVID is that it's something they're going to have to live with. The research shows that there is chronic damage to the heart which is causing the fatigue and there is no treatment which is going to help. Considering that around 5% of infected people go on to get long COVID including young people then that's an extremely serious risk.

Yes, throughout the pandemic many people have failed to recognise that there is a substantial and significant middle ground between death and full, uninhibited recovery.

Some of this is down to naive misconception, some of it more nefarious. Either way, you hope those with responsibility for encouraging vaccine uptake could communicate more effectively on these matters.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on March 12, 2021, 05:33:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 11, 2021, 10:56:00 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0311/1203346-coronavirus-vaccine/

I've never been anti-vaccine but this time I think i'll go with my immune system and a 99.97% recovery rate.
From earlier today:

Countries should not stop using AstraZeneca's Covid-19 vaccine over fears it causes blood clots as there is no indication this is true, the World Health Organization says.

Bulgaria, Denmark and Norway are among the countries that have paused its use.

But on Friday a WHO spokeswoman said there was no link between the jab and an increased risk of developing a clot.

Margaret Harris said it was an "excellent vaccine" and should continue to be used.

Around 5 million Europeans have already received the AstraZeneca jab.

There have been about 30 cases in Europe of "thromboembolic events" - or developing blood clots - after the vaccine was administered. There were also reports that a 50-year-old man had died in Italy after developing deep vein thrombosis (DVT).

The WHO is investigating the reports, as it does any safety questions, Ms Harris said.

But no causal relationship had been established between the shot and the health problems reported, she said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-56370636 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-56370636)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on March 12, 2021, 08:20:30 PM
What would the normal incidence of these clots be in a similar population who had not received the vaccine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: South Laois man on March 12, 2021, 10:15:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2021, 08:20:30 PM
What would the normal incidence of these clots be in a similar population who had not received the vaccine?
the amount of clots as a percentage is lower in all the people vaccinated with the astra Zenica vaccine than it is in the general population.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 12, 2021, 10:41:38 PM
Some populations have more Clots than others.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on March 12, 2021, 11:13:03 PM
Quote from: South Laois man on March 12, 2021, 10:15:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on March 12, 2021, 08:20:30 PM
What would the normal incidence of these clots be in a similar population who had not received the vaccine?
the amount of clots as a percentage is lower in all the people vaccinated with the astra Zenica vaccine than it is in the general population.
wasn't blood clotting killing a lot of people who got the virus?!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 13, 2021, 07:32:34 AM
So it seems Wales and Scotland have raced ahead of us with the reopening and England with a clear plan and also all school kids back in
Wales now allowed all outdoor sports to resume from today and hairdressers open from Monday
Scotland outdoor sports never stopped
England to start the bug reopening in 2 weeks time

Big indications from Foster that Tuesday will see us move to level 2 in most of the 9 sectors
Considering we have a further 3 levels after that and the numbers we have level 2 was the least we expected on Tuesday

Cases have plateaued at around the 170 seven day average which really is as good as it's going to get
If we can keep things below 3/400 cases in the next few months we are doing well

As per what the vaccine said the number of people entering hospital on the back of covid have plummeted and with the role out moving fast that should only improve. Over 650000 first doses given out and a further 200000 expected by the end of March. We could see 60% of the adult population jabbed in 2 weeks. Amazing achievement by the NHS

NUMBERS

Hospital 180
ICU 25
Cases per week 2/300
Vaccines 650000 first


2 options on Tuesday

Lift nothing and really blow the hopes and motivation of the public
Lift some restrictions to give everyone a lift


We are in a much better place than pre Christmas opening

Christmas
20000 vaccinated
600 cases per day
All open with the exception of pubs
Streets packed
Better weather
Hospitals generally under pressure November-March
Household mixing


Anyone who says looked what happened when we opened Christmas don't

It will be hard for Celebrity McBride to let go
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dubh driocht on March 14, 2021, 10:28:00 AM
With the decision by the Irish National Immunisation Advisory Committee to suspend use of the Astra Zenica vaccine will any Nordies reconsider getting the jab in the next few weeks?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2021, 11:13:04 AM
Quote from: Dubh driocht on March 14, 2021, 10:28:00 AM
With the decision by the Irish National Immunisation Advisory Committee to suspend use of the Astra Zenica vaccine will any Nordies reconsider getting the jab in the next few weeks?

I've taken the Phizer one, due the second jab soon, mum and in laws have had the Oxford , they haven't expressed any issues and seem to be looking forward for their second jab.

Is the south looking at getting a different vaccine now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 14, 2021, 11:21:13 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2021, 11:13:04 AM
Quote from: Dubh driocht on March 14, 2021, 10:28:00 AM
With the decision by the Irish National Immunisation Advisory Committee to suspend use of the Astra Zenica vaccine will any Nordies reconsider getting the jab in the next few weeks?

I've taken the Phizer one, due the second jab soon, mum and in laws have had the Oxford , they haven't expressed any issues and seem to be looking forward for their second jab.

Is the south looking at getting a different vaccine now?

I suppose with the numbers being administered the world over, they'll always be links to certain major and minor ailments. Every country has the right to be cautious when it sees fit.
Don't think I've ever heard a North man use the term 'Nordie'before (Dubh).. Such a weedy wee word
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dubh driocht on March 14, 2021, 12:34:42 PM
Aye, agree nordie is  a weedy word alright.  Couldn't think of a handier one to make the point that this dilemma only applies to the wee six.
For what it's worth I plan to go ahead with Astra Zenica
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 14, 2021, 12:58:45 PM
Probably a Government diversion tactic after revelations about Leo https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/leo-varadkar-leak-investigation-turned-20143725
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 14, 2021, 01:35:15 PM
Norway, Denmark, Iceland and Austria all trying to save Varadkar? ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 14, 2021, 03:26:26 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 14, 2021, 01:35:15 PM
Norway, Denmark, Iceland and Austria all trying to save Varadkar? ::)

Lmfao
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 14, 2021, 05:38:00 PM
South have made a mistake suspending use of the Astra Zenica vaccine imo. Their vaccination programme has been woeful and this won't help.
Furthermore the fact that they didn't go an order vaccine from lots of different companies was a huge oversight. Not a good week for the government in the 26.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2021, 05:43:58 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 14, 2021, 05:38:00 PM
South have made a mistake suspending use of the Astra Zenica vaccine imo. Their vaccination programme has been woeful and this won't help.
Furthermore the fact that they didn't go an order vaccine from lots of different companies was a huge oversight. Not a good week for the government in the 26.

Can they send up ones they ain't using to the north of the country?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 14, 2021, 05:46:36 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 14, 2021, 05:38:00 PM
South have made a mistake suspending use of the Astra Zenica vaccine imo. Their vaccination programme has been woeful and this won't help.
Furthermore the fact that they didn't go an order vaccine from lots of different companies was a huge oversight. Not a good week for the government in the 26.

Is it not the EU who procure it?  I still think something fishy went on with UK and AZ, the fact that they have so many plants there just makes me suspicious that they aren't playing fair with EU or that Boris and the boys somehow turned the screw. I could be away off the mark
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: South Laois man on March 14, 2021, 05:52:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 14, 2021, 05:46:36 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 14, 2021, 05:38:00 PM
South have made a mistake suspending use of the Astra Zenica vaccine imo. Their vaccination programme has been woeful and this won't help.
Furthermore the fact that they didn't go an order vaccine from lots of different companies was a huge oversight. Not a good week for the government in the 26.

Is it not the EU who procure it?  I still think something fishy went on with UK and AZ, the fact that they have so many plants there just makes me suspicious that they aren't playing fair with EU or that Boris and the boys somehow turned the screw. I could be away off the mark
surely it's in the UKs best interest that the EU economy recovers as quick as possible. We can't do that without vaccines.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 14, 2021, 05:54:04 PM
Quote from: South Laois man on March 14, 2021, 05:52:29 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 14, 2021, 05:46:36 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 14, 2021, 05:38:00 PM
South have made a mistake suspending use of the Astra Zenica vaccine imo. Their vaccination programme has been woeful and this won't help.
Furthermore the fact that they didn't go an order vaccine from lots of different companies was a huge oversight. Not a good week for the government in the 26.

Is it not the EU who procure it?  I still think something fishy went on with UK and AZ, the fact that they have so many plants there just makes me suspicious that they aren't playing fair with EU or that Boris and the boys somehow turned the screw. I could be away off the mark
surely it's in the UKs best interest that the EU economy recovers as quick as possible. We can't do that without vaccines.

Sure are they just selling to the states and Australia now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 14, 2021, 06:22:33 PM
ROI weekly update. Lowest decrease in cases for a number of weeks but we had over 5000 extra tests this week compared to last.

Cases 3544 (126 fewer than last week)
Reported Deaths 113 (8 more, 70% of those reported deaths happened in January, February)

In hospital 349 (74 fewer than a week ago)
In ICU 86 (17 fewer than last Sunday)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 14, 2021, 06:40:21 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 14, 2021, 05:38:00 PM
South have made a mistake suspending use of the Astra Zenica vaccine imo. Their vaccination programme has been woeful and this won't help.
Furthermore the fact that they didn't go an order vaccine from lots of different companies was a huge oversight. Not a good week for the government in the 26.
only 3 Companies approved by EMA up to last Wed/ Thursday when  the Johnson one got approval.

Astra crowd promised the Sun, moon and stars (to get research funds up front?) and then didn't deliver half of it.
I wonder how much the Brits are paying them seeing as they are getting what they were promised.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 14, 2021, 07:01:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 14, 2021, 06:40:21 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 14, 2021, 05:38:00 PM
South have made a mistake suspending use of the Astra Zenica vaccine imo. Their vaccination programme has been woeful and this won't help.
Furthermore the fact that they didn't go an order vaccine from lots of different companies was a huge oversight. Not a good week for the government in the 26.
only 3 Companies approved by EMA up to last Wed/ Thursday when  the Johnson one got approval.

Astra crowd promised the Sun, moon and stars (to get research funds up front?) and then didn't deliver half of it.
I wonder how much the Brits are paying them seeing as they are getting what they were promised.

They probably getting under the table corporation tax deal to stay in Macclesfield etc. I was at that plant once, enormous operation
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 14, 2021, 07:08:22 PM
Quote from: Dubh driocht on March 14, 2021, 10:28:00 AM
With the decision by the Irish National Immunisation Advisory Committee to suspend use of the Astra Zenica vaccine will any Nordies reconsider getting the jab in the next few weeks?
Have had the Pfizer but would take what is given to me. Don't think the South can afford a slowdown at the rate they are going.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 14, 2021, 08:57:02 PM
Europe slipping into a 3rd wave at the minute with the variants and lack of vaccine France Italy and Germany imposing stronger restrictions again this week!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 14, 2021, 09:10:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 14, 2021, 05:46:36 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 14, 2021, 05:38:00 PM
South have made a mistake suspending use of the Astra Zenica vaccine imo. Their vaccination programme has been woeful and this won't help.
Furthermore the fact that they didn't go an order vaccine from lots of different companies was a huge oversight. Not a good week for the government in the 26.

Is it not the EU who procure it?  I still think something fishy went on with UK and AZ, the fact that they have so many plants there just makes me suspicious that they aren't playing fair with EU or that Boris and the boys somehow turned the screw. I could be away off the mark

It is yeah and I think UK offered more to Pfizer and AZ than the EU would, which I'm sure is affecting availability.

Big Pharma aren't known for levelling the playing field or doing anything that isn't in their interest but paying extra to make sure you get first dibs makes sense when large parts of your economy are shut down!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2021, 09:17:54 PM
You'd think a continent like Europe would have better pull than the UK!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 14, 2021, 09:39:17 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2021, 09:10:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 14, 2021, 05:46:36 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 14, 2021, 05:38:00 PM
South have made a mistake suspending use of the Astra Zenica vaccine imo. Their vaccination programme has been woeful and this won't help.
Furthermore the fact that they didn't go an order vaccine from lots of different companies was a huge oversight. Not a good week for the government in the 26.

Is it not the EU who procure it?  I still think something fishy went on with UK and AZ, the fact that they have so many plants there just makes me suspicious that they aren't playing fair with EU or that Boris and the boys somehow turned the screw. I could be away off the mark

It is yeah and I think UK offered more to Pfizer and AZ than the EU would, which I'm sure is affecting availability.

Big Pharma aren't known for levelling the playing field or doing anything that isn't in their interest but paying extra to make sure you get first dibs makes sense when large parts of your economy are shut down!!

It does,if that really was the case, which it may well have been , just seems odd EU would not pay the big ding
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 14, 2021, 09:40:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 14, 2021, 09:17:54 PM
You'd think a continent like Europe would have better pull than the UK!

You would and you'd wonder about future long-term sales to EU. Long road and all that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 14, 2021, 10:22:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 14, 2021, 09:39:17 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2021, 09:10:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on March 14, 2021, 05:46:36 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 14, 2021, 05:38:00 PM
South have made a mistake suspending use of the Astra Zenica vaccine imo. Their vaccination programme has been woeful and this won't help.
Furthermore the fact that they didn't go an order vaccine from lots of different companies was a huge oversight. Not a good week for the government in the 26.

Is it not the EU who procure it?  I still think something fishy went on with UK and AZ, the fact that they have so many plants there just makes me suspicious that they aren't playing fair with EU or that Boris and the boys somehow turned the screw. I could be away off the mark

It is yeah and I think UK offered more to Pfizer and AZ than the EU would, which I'm sure is affecting availability.

Big Pharma aren't known for levelling the playing field or doing anything that isn't in their interest but paying extra to make sure you get first dibs makes sense when large parts of your economy are shut down!!

It does,if that really was the case, which it may well have been , just seems odd EU would not pay the big ding

Pfizer have fulfilled a lot of orders to the EU, it is AstraZeneca that has been acting the maggot. You cannot criticise the EU for not ordering enough vaccine, they had similar plan to the UK with Pfizer and AZ and added a small amount of Moderna as well, but AZ aren't even going to deliver one-third of the amount. You can say that the EU could have paid more, but the issue is the AZ were happy to sign a contract at that price without any intention of actually delivering.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 14, 2021, 11:02:02 PM
No deaths in Ireland reported yesterday
Great news
We have to go back to early September almost 6 months

As expected on Tuesday the executive will move to phase 2 of the roadmap.
The right call
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on March 15, 2021, 08:58:56 AM
This is interesting and easy to understand for the lay person.
https://youtu.be/ZJZxiNxYLpc
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2021, 09:27:13 AM
Quote from: Last Man on March 15, 2021, 08:58:56 AM
This is interesting and easy to understand for the lay person.
https://youtu.be/ZJZxiNxYLpc

Watched half of it there (some of us work  ;) ) its very much a case of hindsight and with a better approach we could have done a lot better, I would say if the experts were able to study the virus and its works before it spread then a world wide approach would have worked better. But the horse has bolted and we are unfortunately left with the debacle of lockdowns and continued waves of this pandemic.

The best approach would have been to shut things down on the island first and then find the best approach, hopefully going forward (if it every happens again) that they will learn from the many mistakes and be able to implement a better plan.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on March 15, 2021, 09:44:00 AM
Some of us get up at a decent time in the morning, we're not teenagers anymore!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 15, 2021, 06:14:03 PM
So does all 9 sectors move to level 2 tomorrow?
That's the biggest question
Lowest numbers of cases in the wee 6 for 7 months
Will they throw us any curve balls tomorrow that's the question
The must move
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 17, 2021, 10:34:30 AM
See that India is experiencing another surge in cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 10:40:20 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 17, 2021, 10:34:30 AM
See that India is experiencing another surge in cases.

Hardly a surge.

28k cases yesterday in a country with a population of 1.4bn.

29k cases in France with a population of around 70m.

So the case rate in France is currently 20x that of India. France has been in lockdown for months. India hadn't had a lockdown since last summer.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 17, 2021, 10:44:48 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 17, 2021, 10:34:30 AM
See that India is experiencing another surge in cases.
Yet another denier propaganda narrative falls by the wayside

The deniers can't explain Manaus either
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on March 17, 2021, 10:54:33 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 10:40:20 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 17, 2021, 10:34:30 AM
See that India is experiencing another surge in cases.

Hardly a surge.

28k cases yesterday in a country with a population of 1.4bn.

29k cases in France with a population of around 70m.

So the case rate in France is currently 20x that of India. France has been in lockdown for months. India hadn't had a lockdown since last summer.

This is just plain wrong. Indian had an initial lockdown that involved people been under curfew and not allowed leave their houses. This continued into the summer and was gradually lifted phase by phase under an unlock plan with lots of restrictions still in place including closure of all recreational places, schools, public transport etc etc. Much like rest of the world.

This unlocking phases also had containment zones where curfew was applied where cases spiked.

The schools only reopened in later part of the year. The dates for the phases of unlock (up to unlock 8) where often missed. Restrictions and mask wearing where always in place.

When they say they going into lockdown, they refer to curfews, people staying in their own homes etc.

They've always had restrictions like here and most parts of the world.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 10:55:52 AM
A lot of misinformation here.

The "surge" in India is currently 1 case per 50k citizens.

In the UK where lockdowns restrictions are not starting to roll back it is 1 per 14k.

In the Free State it is 1 per 17k.

So the surge in India is not actually a surge at all and it has one of the lowest incident rates per population worldwide at all.

You really have to check the misinformation and misrepresentation of views out there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 10:58:14 AM
Quote from: Louther on March 17, 2021, 10:54:33 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 10:40:20 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 17, 2021, 10:34:30 AM
See that India is experiencing another surge in cases.

Hardly a surge.

28k cases yesterday in a country with a population of 1.4bn.

29k cases in France with a population of around 70m.

So the case rate in France is currently 20x that of India. France has been in lockdown for months. India hadn't had a lockdown since last summer.

This is just plain wrong. Indian had an initial lockdown that involved people been under curfew and not allowed leave their houses. This continued into the summer and was gradually lifted phase by phase under an unlock plan with lots of restrictions still in place including closure of all recreational places, schools, public transport etc etc. Much like rest of the world.

This unlocking phases also had containment zones where curfew was applied where cases spiked.

The schools only reopened in later part of the year. The dates for the phases of unlock (up to unlock 8) where often missed. Restrictions and mask wearing where always in place.

When they say they going into lockdown, they refer to curfews, people staying in their own homes etc.

They've always had restrictions like here and most parts of the world.

Your post riddled with inaccuracies there.

Inidia's lockdown ended last summer. It has not gone back into Lockdown since.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/05/indias-lockdown-ends-mental-health-crisis-beginning/

The fact you decide to give us a post stacked with misinformation to suit your bias is telling.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on March 17, 2021, 10:59:43 AM
Read what I said.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 11:03:13 AM
Quote from: Louther on March 17, 2021, 10:59:43 AM
Read what I said.

I did.

It was incorrect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on March 17, 2021, 11:03:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 11:03:13 AM
Quote from: Louther on March 17, 2021, 10:59:43 AM
Read what I said.

I did.

It was incorrect.

You can't read then.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on March 17, 2021, 12:07:38 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 17, 2021, 10:34:30 AM
See that India is experiencing another surge in cases.

(https://i.ibb.co/wgX5vjf/India.png) (https://ibb.co/r0SDWNV)

Certainly something going on. 43% week on week increase in cases, apparently. If that's not yet a 'surge', it won't be long becoming one. Perhaps some new variants beginning to challenge immune response?

Mad how this thing can still turn on a sixpence, definitely a lesson on not being too hasty with thinking that you have it under control.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 17, 2021, 12:11:33 PM
They talked about having potential herd immunity there too so on that front it's not good either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2021, 12:18:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 10:55:52 AM
A lot of misinformation here.

The "surge" in India is currently 1 case per 50k citizens.

In the UK where lockdowns restrictions are not starting to roll back it is 1 per 14k.

In the Free State it is 1 per 17k.

So the surge in India is not actually a surge at all and it has one of the lowest incident rates per population worldwide at all.

You really have to check the misinformation and misrepresentation of views out there.

I'd say that the representing the officially tested numbers in India as accurate is misinformation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on March 17, 2021, 12:33:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2021, 12:18:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 10:55:52 AM
A lot of misinformation here.

The "surge" in India is currently 1 case per 50k citizens.

In the UK where lockdowns restrictions are not starting to roll back it is 1 per 14k.

In the Free State it is 1 per 17k.

So the surge in India is not actually a surge at all and it has one of the lowest incident rates per population worldwide at all.

You really have to check the misinformation and misrepresentation of views out there.

I'd say that the representing the officially tested numbers in India as accurate is misinformation.

Modi out today saying that they have to do a lot more on testing outside of the major cities.

Indian government definitely more concerned by the rise in cases than some on this thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 12:56:03 PM
Sure it's only a seasonal thing, like flu
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 17, 2021, 12:56:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 17, 2021, 12:11:33 PM
They talked about having potential herd immunity there too so on that front it's not good either.
It's also a lesson as regards the concept of vaccine acquired herd immunity

The Astra Zeneca vaccine doesn't seem to be very effective against the South African variant

I suspect we could see a big spread of that variant or another similarly evasive variant this summer or autumn
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 17, 2021, 01:15:39 PM
It really just highlights it is far from understood, and far from over, yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on March 17, 2021, 01:37:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 17, 2021, 12:56:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 17, 2021, 12:11:33 PM
They talked about having potential herd immunity there too so on that front it's not good either.
It's also a lesson as regards the concept of vaccine acquired herd immunity

The Astra Zeneca vaccine doesn't seem to be very effective against the South African variant

I suspect we could see a big spread of that variant or another similarly evasive variant this summer or autumn

UK have plans for a 'revaccination' or booster jab rollout later in the year to tackle escape variants.

Even if this becomes a continual thing, it shouldn't cause much bother for high income countries. The science involved in tweaking these vaccines is relatively straightforward, apparently. And the rollout infrastructure will have been well developed.

It will be more of an issue if low and middle income countries need to keep vaccinating on a continuous cycle. They will need an awful lot of help at a time when money is tight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 02:03:10 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on March 17, 2021, 01:37:12 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 17, 2021, 12:56:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 17, 2021, 12:11:33 PM
They talked about having potential herd immunity there too so on that front it's not good either.
It's also a lesson as regards the concept of vaccine acquired herd immunity

The Astra Zeneca vaccine doesn't seem to be very effective against the South African variant

I suspect we could see a big spread of that variant or another similarly evasive variant this summer or autumn

UK have plans for a 'revaccination' or booster jab rollout later in the year to tackle escape variants.

Even if this becomes a continual thing, it shouldn't cause much bother for high income countries. The science involved in tweaking these vaccines is relatively straightforward, apparently. And the rollout infrastructure will have been well developed.

It will be more of an issue if low and middle income countries need to keep vaccinating on a continuous cycle. They will need an awful lot of help at a time when money is tight.

Given that first world countries are happy enough to turn a blind eye to poverty, overcrowding, starvation and lack of basic living conditions in third world countries I doubt they will give much of a toss about Covid in these countries if they are able to minimise its damage in their own.

The West are happy enough to engage with, back and support Israel and all the horrendous thing they have and continue to do to Palestinians so I doubt they will suddenly develop a moral compass.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 03:24:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2021, 02:48:35 PM
I think SF lost their way a bit on abortion in the 26 counties when they threw Peader Toibin out and others also.
SF could have put forward the view that they are primarily interested in uniting Ireland and that there might be some variation in opinion among their members on things like abortion. Tóibín was a good performer and sound on the national issue. Had they allows a conscience vote in the 26 counties then they would probably still have Tóibín and they could then have allowed a conscience vote in the 6 counties which might have made them look less like eejits.

Toibin was treated disgracefully by SF.

Absolutely no doubt.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: South Laois man on March 17, 2021, 03:46:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 17, 2021, 12:56:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 17, 2021, 12:11:33 PM
They talked about having potential herd immunity there too so on that front it's not good either.
It's also a lesson as regards the concept of vaccine acquired herd immunity

The Astra Zeneca vaccine doesn't seem to be very effective against the South African variant

I suspect we could see a big spread of that variant or another similarly evasive variant this summer or autumn
the Astra Zenica vaccine prevents serious illness even against the varients. I think we could all live with it if it turns into something more like a cold.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 03:51:03 PM
Women that take the birth control pill can get blood clots, at a higher rate than this vaccine. I suppose it'll be suspended soon
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 17, 2021, 04:15:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2021, 12:18:24 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 10:55:52 AM
A lot of misinformation here.

The "surge" in India is currently 1 case per 50k citizens.

In the UK where lockdowns restrictions are not starting to roll back it is 1 per 14k.

In the Free State it is 1 per 17k.

So the surge in India is not actually a surge at all and it has one of the lowest incident rates per population worldwide at all.

You really have to check the misinformation and misrepresentation of views out there.

I'd say that the representing the officially tested numbers in India as accurate is misinformation.
Correct. With what could kindly be described as a sketchy testing set up actual numbers could be 3,4,or 5 times the official figures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 04:35:58 PM
The EU are losing its shit on the vaccine roll out and contracts, saying they will have a 3rd wave soon.  Threatening the UK, this should be interesting

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2021, 04:40:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 04:35:58 PM
The EU are losing its shit on the vaccine roll out and contracts, saying they will have a 3rd wave soon.  Threatening the UK, this should be interesting

They will have a third wave, as the "Kent" variant is ripping through the place. "Threatening the UK" is the British perspective on this, conserving their own resources might be a fairer way of looking at things. Does it make sense for the EU to continue to allow German or Belgian made vaccine be sent to Britain to vaccinate 40 year olds when its own 80 year olds cannot get vaccines? No doubt during the famine the British used Contract Law to justify shipping food out of Ireland.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 04:48:57 PM
Yeah listen if they want to put a blockade on and f**k the uk over then go ahead.

17 million people have taken it in Europe, despite what Angelo said it hadn't, it's reducing the death rates and doing the heavy lifting in respect of reducing hospitals admissions.

The EU would have more clout and money than the uk, I don't understand how they allowed this to be a shambles
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 17, 2021, 05:03:20 PM
Probably agreed a much lower price than the Brits?
Astra then saw they couldn't possibly meet their promises so prioritised the smaller better paying customer?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2021, 05:12:59 PM
AZ agreed a low price with the EU and then decided that it didn't suit them to produce at that price. But they cannot admit this, of course.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 05:15:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2021, 05:12:59 PM
AZ agreed a low price with the EU and then decided that it didn't suit them to produce at that price. But they cannot admit this, of course.

So did The EU renegotiate? If this is true.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 17, 2021, 05:39:12 PM
Astra simply told them they'd supply about a quarter of what they'd originally agreed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 05:41:14 PM
Did the uk fund this drug by tens of millions?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on March 17, 2021, 05:51:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 05:41:14 PM
Did the uk fund this drug by tens of millions?
AstraZeneca was signed as Oxford's partner on 30 April and signed a deal to supply 100m doses to the UK a fortnight later. Ministers were prepared to pay a few hundred million upfront, allowing the company to build its first virus manufacturing process, and the UK government to demand its citizens be vaccinated first.

"That underpinned all of it," an industry insider said.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/29/we-had-to-go-it-alone-how-the-uk-got-ahead-in-the-covid-vaccine-race (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/29/we-had-to-go-it-alone-how-the-uk-got-ahead-in-the-covid-vaccine-race)

That article also contains one further snippet which is very illuminating (imo):
With Brexit looming, the UK drew huge criticism for declining to join EU schemes to purchase PPE and ventilators. There was also growing pressure to join a joint EU procurement plan for vaccines, and to put aside the Brexit rhetoric.

But Brussels' demands were eye-watering: the UK, unlike EU member states, would not be able to take part in the governance of the scheme, including the steering group or the negotiating team.

Britain would have no say in what vaccines to procure, at what price or in what quantity, and for what delivery schedule. There would be no side-deals possible.

British officials were not convinced. "We had to go it alone," said a UK source. "There was nothing there for us." By the time a special UK vaccine taskforce was created in April, the seeds of a successful strategy had been sown.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 17, 2021, 05:53:16 PM
Quote from: South Laois man on March 17, 2021, 03:46:33 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 17, 2021, 12:56:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 17, 2021, 12:11:33 PM
They talked about having potential herd immunity there too so on that front it's not good either.
It's also a lesson as regards the concept of vaccine acquired herd immunity

The Astra Zeneca vaccine doesn't seem to be very effective against the South African variant

I suspect we could see a big spread of that variant or another similarly evasive variant this summer or autumn
the Astra Zenica vaccine prevents serious illness even against the varients. I think we could all live with it if it turns into something more like a cold.
But if it's not very effective against transmission we still have a problem, a big problem, because if we open up society, lots of people will die even in a mass vaccination situation - and new variants will continually emerge because of mass spread

I'm not dissing the Astra Zeneca vaccine, people should absolutely take it if offered to them but it does seem to have serious limitations

Astra Zeneca and other vaccines will play a key part in getting rid of the worst of the effects of the pandemic  in the short term - but the longer term process of getting back back to normality looks likely to be very fraught indeed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on March 17, 2021, 06:01:43 PM
(Further to my previous post on vaccine funding)

From September 2020:
"The UK is to give £500m to a new global vaccine-sharing scheme designed to ensure treatments for Covid-19 are distributed fairly...           ... [this] will go to the Covax vaccines procurement pool, which aims to help poorer countries access a coronavirus jab when one is developed."

and

"[Prime Minister Johnson] also promised £340m to the World Health Organization over the next four years - a 30% increase on the previous period, making the UK one of its biggest donors."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54303061 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54303061)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 06:11:44 PM
Guys.

What do we make of Israel?

9.5m vaccine doses given.
60% of the entire population has received at least one dose. That probably is up in the 70% mark for the adult population.
Yet the daily cases are still staying quite stubbornly high. The 7 day moving average is about 2k daily cases.
The vaccine was sold to us as the solution but what happens if it's not as impactful as we were promised.

I know you can make the argument that it's early doors yet but I really thought that type of coverage would have made a much more impactful presence on the number of cases and transmission rates.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: In hiding on March 17, 2021, 06:16:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 06:11:44 PM
Guys.

What do we make of Israel?

9.5m vaccine doses given.
60% of the entire population has received at least one dose. That probably is up in the 70% mark for the adult population.
Yet the daily cases are still staying quite stubbornly high. The 7 day moving average is about 2k daily cases.
The vaccine was sold to us as the solution but what happens if it's not as impactful as we were promised.

I know you can make the argument that it's early doors yet but I really thought that type of coverage would have made a much more impactful presence on the number of cases and transmission rates.
Are there many hospitalisation or deaths ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 06:23:17 PM
Quote from: In hiding on March 17, 2021, 06:16:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 06:11:44 PM
Guys.

What do we make of Israel?

9.5m vaccine doses given.
60% of the entire population has received at least one dose. That probably is up in the 70% mark for the adult population.
Yet the daily cases are still staying quite stubbornly high. The 7 day moving average is about 2k daily cases.
The vaccine was sold to us as the solution but what happens if it's not as impactful as we were promised.

I know you can make the argument that it's early doors yet but I really thought that type of coverage would have made a much more impactful presence on the number of cases and transmission rates.
Are there many hospitalisation or deaths ?

Not sure is my honest answer.

The latest 7 day moving average for daily deaths is 17.

Israel has a population of 9m. So to equate that roughly when north and south would be 4 daily deaths in the north and 10 in the souths which is probably not far off the daily totals?

I guess we'll have a clearer answer by the end of April on this.

What we have gone through the past year is not sustainable any longer and it has caused a lot of damage. The western world has chased a strategy of draconian lockdowns and vaccines to solve it, I'd have expected more encouraging results from that but hopefully by April those statistics in Israel have improved dramatically.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2021, 06:23:55 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 17, 2021, 05:51:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 05:41:14 PM
Did the uk fund this drug by tens of millions?
AstraZeneca was signed as Oxford's partner on 30 April and signed a deal to supply 100m doses to the UK a fortnight later. Ministers were prepared to pay a few hundred million upfront, allowing the company to build its first virus manufacturing process, and the UK government to demand its citizens be vaccinated first.

"That underpinned all of it," an industry insider said.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/29/we-had-to-go-it-alone-how-the-uk-got-ahead-in-the-covid-vaccine-race (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/29/we-had-to-go-it-alone-how-the-uk-got-ahead-in-the-covid-vaccine-race)

That article also contains one further snippet which is very illuminating (imo):
With Brexit looming, the UK drew huge criticism for declining to join EU schemes to purchase PPE and ventilators. There was also growing pressure to join a joint EU procurement plan for vaccines, and to put aside the Brexit rhetoric.

But Brussels' demands were eye-watering: the UK, unlike EU member states, would not be able to take part in the governance of the scheme, including the steering group or the negotiating team.

Britain would have no say in what vaccines to procure, at what price or in what quantity, and for what delivery schedule. There would be no side-deals possible.

British officials were not convinced. "We had to go it alone," said a UK source. "There was nothing there for us." By the time a special UK vaccine taskforce was created in April, the seeds of a successful strategy had been sown.

Nobody is particularly criticising the UK for doing its own deal. It isn't even contentious that the Oxford vaccine was first used in Britain. However the EU also prepaid  €336 million to AZ and that should have secured them supplies, starting one month after the UK. The issue is why has it not?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 17, 2021, 06:40:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 06:11:44 PM
Guys.

What do we make of Israel?

9.5m vaccine doses given.
60% of the entire population has received at least one dose. That probably is up in the 70% mark for the adult population.
Yet the daily cases are still staying quite stubbornly high. The 7 day moving average is about 2k daily cases.
The vaccine was sold to us as the solution but what happens if it's not as impactful as we were promised.

I know you can make the argument that it's early doors yet but I really thought that type of coverage would have made a much more impactful presence on the number of cases and transmission rates.
Incidence rates are reported as down massively in the vaccinated population.

Prof Yeheskel Levy, the director of the Israeli health ministry, said the impact of vaccination had been profound. "Incidence rates in the fully vaccinated population have massively dropped compared to the unvaccinated population, showing a marked decline in hospitalised cases due to Covid-19," he said.

"This clearly demonstrates the power of the Covid-19 vaccine to fight this virus and encourages us to continue even more intensively with our vaccination campaign. We aim to achieve even higher uptake in people of all ages, which gives us hope of regaining normal economic and social function in the not-so-distant future."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 06:50:23 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 17, 2021, 06:40:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 06:11:44 PM
Guys.

What do we make of Israel?

9.5m vaccine doses given.
60% of the entire population has received at least one dose. That probably is up in the 70% mark for the adult population.
Yet the daily cases are still staying quite stubbornly high. The 7 day moving average is about 2k daily cases.
The vaccine was sold to us as the solution but what happens if it's not as impactful as we were promised.

I know you can make the argument that it's early doors yet but I really thought that type of coverage would have made a much more impactful presence on the number of cases and transmission rates.
Incidence rates are reported as down massively in the vaccinated population.

Prof Yeheskel Levy, the director of the Israeli health ministry, said the impact of vaccination had been profound. "Incidence rates in the fully vaccinated population have massively dropped compared to the unvaccinated population, showing a marked decline in hospitalised cases due to Covid-19," he said.

"This clearly demonstrates the power of the Covid-19 vaccine to fight this virus and encourages us to continue even more intensively with our vaccination campaign. We aim to achieve even higher uptake in people of all ages, which gives us hope of regaining normal economic and social function in the not-so-distant future."

But you're probably looking at a 3m population who do not have any vaccination protection as of present. You're still hitting 2k daily cases in that 3m population. Israel has recorded 800k positive cases to date. It's probably logical to say that maybe 200k of that 3m should have immunity too. It just seems a lot higher than you would expect if the vaccine was as successful as claimed.

I appreciate it's still early doors but when you consider the transmission levels we had last summer which were very low with a lot less restrictions and no vaccine in sight I would say that I expected those figures to have made a much bigger impact so far.

Going by the data available Israel are currently hitting close to 100k vaccines a day, so by this time next month should have another 3m doses given and pretty much have whoever wants a vaccine more or less done. If the cases by this time next month have not dropped to something like 200-300 a day then it should be a real cause for concern.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 17, 2021, 07:00:37 PM
Despite illegally occupying the West Bank it became a Separate State when vaccines were being administered.
Only the 90k Palestinians who work in Israel got vaccinated.
UN supplying the Palestinians now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 07:52:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 06:50:23 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 17, 2021, 06:40:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 06:11:44 PM
Guys.

What do we make of Israel?

9.5m vaccine doses given.
60% of the entire population has received at least one dose. That probably is up in the 70% mark for the adult population.
Yet the daily cases are still staying quite stubbornly high. The 7 day moving average is about 2k daily cases.
The vaccine was sold to us as the solution but what happens if it's not as impactful as we were promised.

I know you can make the argument that it's early doors yet but I really thought that type of coverage would have made a much more impactful presence on the number of cases and transmission rates.
Incidence rates are reported as down massively in the vaccinated population.

Prof Yeheskel Levy, the director of the Israeli health ministry, said the impact of vaccination had been profound. "Incidence rates in the fully vaccinated population have massively dropped compared to the unvaccinated population, showing a marked decline in hospitalised cases due to Covid-19," he said.

"This clearly demonstrates the power of the Covid-19 vaccine to fight this virus and encourages us to continue even more intensively with our vaccination campaign. We aim to achieve even higher uptake in people of all ages, which gives us hope of regaining normal economic and social function in the not-so-distant future."

But you're probably looking at a 3m population who do not have any vaccination protection as of present. You're still hitting 2k daily cases in that 3m population. Israel has recorded 800k positive cases to date. It's probably logical to say that maybe 200k of that 3m should have immunity too. It just seems a lot higher than you would expect if the vaccine was as successful as claimed.

I appreciate it's still early doors but when you consider the transmission levels we had last summer which were very low with a lot less restrictions and no vaccine in sight I would say that I expected those figures to have made a much bigger impact so far.

Going by the data available Israel are currently hitting close to 100k vaccines a day, so by this time next month should have another 3m doses given and pretty much have whoever wants a vaccine more or less done. If the cases by this time next month have not dropped to something like 200-300 a day then it should be a real cause for concern.

Which country are you concerned with? It changes by the post! Look at where you live and look at the data it's got, if it's good then brilliant, if it's not the question it.

You've  posted before about only being concerned about where you live. If we look worldwide we can find an argument to suit whatever agenda you want to push
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 09:29:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 07:52:43 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 06:50:23 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 17, 2021, 06:40:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 06:11:44 PM
Guys.

What do we make of Israel?

9.5m vaccine doses given.
60% of the entire population has received at least one dose. That probably is up in the 70% mark for the adult population.
Yet the daily cases are still staying quite stubbornly high. The 7 day moving average is about 2k daily cases.
The vaccine was sold to us as the solution but what happens if it's not as impactful as we were promised.

I know you can make the argument that it's early doors yet but I really thought that type of coverage would have made a much more impactful presence on the number of cases and transmission rates.
Incidence rates are reported as down massively in the vaccinated population.

Prof Yeheskel Levy, the director of the Israeli health ministry, said the impact of vaccination had been profound. "Incidence rates in the fully vaccinated population have massively dropped compared to the unvaccinated population, showing a marked decline in hospitalised cases due to Covid-19," he said.

"This clearly demonstrates the power of the Covid-19 vaccine to fight this virus and encourages us to continue even more intensively with our vaccination campaign. We aim to achieve even higher uptake in people of all ages, which gives us hope of regaining normal economic and social function in the not-so-distant future."

But you're probably looking at a 3m population who do not have any vaccination protection as of present. You're still hitting 2k daily cases in that 3m population. Israel has recorded 800k positive cases to date. It's probably logical to say that maybe 200k of that 3m should have immunity too. It just seems a lot higher than you would expect if the vaccine was as successful as claimed.

I appreciate it's still early doors but when you consider the transmission levels we had last summer which were very low with a lot less restrictions and no vaccine in sight I would say that I expected those figures to have made a much bigger impact so far.

Going by the data available Israel are currently hitting close to 100k vaccines a day, so by this time next month should have another 3m doses given and pretty much have whoever wants a vaccine more or less done. If the cases by this time next month have not dropped to something like 200-300 a day then it should be a real cause for concern.

Which country are you concerned with? It changes by the post! Look at where you live and look at the data it's got, if it's good then brilliant, if it's not the question it.

You've  posted before about only being concerned about where you live. If we look worldwide we can find an argument to suit whatever agenda you want to push

Israel will be the case study for the vaccine and how effective it truly is. They are highly like to have their vaccine rollout effectively complete by Mid April.

So they are base to assess where we are all going here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 09:51:39 PM
Uk had 25 million people with at least one vaccine, by July they'll have all adults available to have the vaccine. That'll be the (for me) the yardstick
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 09:52:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 09:51:39 PM
Uk had 25 million people with at least one vaccine, by July they'll have all adults available to have the vaccine. That'll be the (for me) the yardstick

Israel will be three months ahead of that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 09:56:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 09:52:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 09:51:39 PM
Uk had 25 million people with at least one vaccine, by July they'll have all adults available to have the vaccine. That'll be the (for me) the yardstick

Israel will be three months ahead of that.

Would that satisfy your views that if they are successful and opened up that you'll accept the big pharma companies got it right
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2021, 09:56:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 09:51:39 PM
Uk had 25 million people with at least one vaccine, by July they'll have all adults available to have the vaccine. That'll be the (for me) the yardstick

The UK has always been the centre of your universe.
We'll be using a metre stick.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 10:12:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 09:56:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 09:52:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 09:51:39 PM
Uk had 25 million people with at least one vaccine, by July they'll have all adults available to have the vaccine. That'll be the (for me) the yardstick

Israel will be three months ahead of that.

Would that satisfy your views that if they are successful and opened up that you'll accept the big pharma companies got it right

Hopefully.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 10:12:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2021, 09:56:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 09:51:39 PM
Uk had 25 million people with at least one vaccine, by July they'll have all adults available to have the vaccine. That'll be the (for me) the yardstick

The UK has always been the centre of your universe.
We'll be using a metre stick.

You don't get it? in all the debates in the past in terms of numbers Angelo used uk data, now he's using Israel, you don't find that strange? But sure the UK is centre of my universe ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 17, 2021, 10:35:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 10:12:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 17, 2021, 09:56:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2021, 09:51:39 PM
Uk had 25 million people with at least one vaccine, by July they'll have all adults available to have the vaccine. That'll be the (for me) the yardstick

The UK has always been the centre of your universe.
We'll be using a metre stick.

You don't get it? in all the debates in the past in terms of numbers Angelo used uk data, now he's using Israel, you don't find that strange? But sure the UK is centre of my universe ?

I don't think you get the fact that Israel will be the first country that will have completed their vaccination program so they are the case study for this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 18, 2021, 07:00:45 AM
Realistically in terms of numbers the wee 6 is not going to get any better
150 cases per day and 0-2 deaths per day
I really can't see things getting any better
Cases has bottomed out at that and with the reopening happening soon it could rise to 300 per day
Would that be a reasonable number to continue life?
The big difference now and last year is the vaccine
People go on about lockdowns being applied again in many European countries but those same European countries will continue with outdoor dining and drinking
Milly all indications here is that it's some kind of seasonal thing. If it wasn't seasonal why are they experts telling us some kind of small lockdowns will be applied again in November? Can you explain that one
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 07:54:06 AM
Seasonal as in weather? Explain Brazil India all those countries like South Africa that, weather or seasonal wise is better than here and they have high numbers all year round?

Once the kids go back and they carry out the testing in schools the numbers will rise smackhead, hopefully it won't rise to much to put the stages back.

The numbers are down now because we've been 'caged' up for over 80 days and the vaccine is going to reduce the hospital admissions, having seen how well the lockdown worked in reducing other seasonal illnesses then surely it would make good sense to have a mini lockdown.

If no lockdowns we'll need a booster to help with any mutations of this virus.

Europe already arranging vaccine passports, ferry companies demanding them also before cruises allow passengers on. This is positive
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mario on March 18, 2021, 08:23:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 07:54:06 AM
Seasonal as in weather? Explain Brazil India all those countries like South Africa that, weather or seasonal wise is better than here and they have high numbers all year round?

Once the kids go back and they carry out the testing in schools the numbers will rise smackhead, hopefully it won't rise to much to put the stages back.

The numbers are down now because we've been 'caged' up for over 80 days and the vaccine is going to reduce the hospital admissions, having seen how well the lockdown worked in reducing other seasonal illnesses then surely it would mss as Ke good sense to have a mini lockdown.

If no lockdowns we'll need a booster to help with any mutations of this virus.

Europe already arranging vaccine passports, ferry companies demanding them also before cruises allow passengers on. This is positive
I thought Brazil and Indias numbers were quite low when adjusted for population. Brazil is 25th on deaths per 100k with a president that didn't believe in lockdown. India are 118th, I accept testing and record keeping might not be great but if it was a significant number it wouldn't go unnoticed like it is now. Climate has to be a driver here
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 09:10:23 AM
Quote from: Mario on March 18, 2021, 08:23:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 07:54:06 AM
Seasonal as in weather? Explain Brazil India all those countries like South Africa that, weather or seasonal wise is better than here and they have high numbers all year round?

Once the kids go back and they carry out the testing in schools the numbers will rise smackhead, hopefully it won't rise to much to put the stages back.

The numbers are down now because we've been 'caged' up for over 80 days and the vaccine is going to reduce the hospital admissions, having seen how well the lockdown worked in reducing other seasonal illnesses then surely it would mss as Ke good sense to have a mini lockdown.

If no lockdowns we'll need a booster to help with any mutations of this virus.

Europe already arranging vaccine passports, ferry companies demanding them also before cruises allow passengers on. This is positive
I thought Brazil and Indias numbers were quite low when adjusted for population. Brazil is 25th on deaths per 100k with a president that didn't believe in lockdown. India are 118th, I accept testing and record keeping might not be great but if it was a significant number it wouldn't go unnoticed like it is now. Climate has to be a driver here

How's the numbers in Spain and Italy? Are they going into a 3rd wave? Did we have high numbers just in the winter?

I get being outdoors is a factor that you are less likely to be in close contact and that there other things like colds and flus meant spreading was easier, but you can catch this any time of the year, I don't think the virus knows when its the summer or not.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on March 18, 2021, 09:15:13 AM
Quote from: Mario on March 18, 2021, 08:23:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 07:54:06 AM
Seasonal as in weather? Explain Brazil India all those countries like South Africa that, weather or seasonal wise is better than here and they have high numbers all year round?

Once the kids go back and they carry out the testing in schools the numbers will rise smackhead, hopefully it won't rise to much to put the stages back.

The numbers are down now because we've been 'caged' up for over 80 days and the vaccine is going to reduce the hospital admissions, having seen how well the lockdown worked in reducing other seasonal illnesses then surely it would mss as Ke good sense to have a mini lockdown.

If no lockdowns we'll need a booster to help with any mutations of this virus.

Europe already arranging vaccine passports, ferry companies demanding them also before cruises allow passengers on. This is positive
I thought Brazil and Indias numbers were quite low when adjusted for population. Brazil is 25th on deaths per 100k with a president that didn't believe in lockdown. India are 118th, I accept testing and record keeping might not be great but if it was a significant number it wouldn't go unnoticed like it is now. Climate has to be a driver here

There is probably seasonal element to the virus , as among other things outdoor life and ventilation lessen risk of spread compared to indoors . However comparison of countries is difficult as viral numbers are dependent on many things, including testing regimes , logistics and cultural attitudes around illness
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on March 18, 2021, 09:44:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 07:54:06 AM
Seasonal as in weather? Explain Brazil India all those countries like South Africa that, weather or seasonal wise is better than here and they have high numbers all year round?

Once the kids go back and they carry out the testing in schools the numbers will rise smackhead, hopefully it won't rise to much to put the stages back.

The numbers are down now because we've been 'caged' up for over 80 days and the vaccine is going to reduce the hospital admissions, having seen how well the lockdown worked in reducing other seasonal illnesses then surely it would make good sense to have a mini lockdown.

If no lockdowns we'll need a booster to help with any mutations of this virus.

Europe already arranging vaccine passports, ferry companies demanding them also before cruises allow passengers on. This is positive

P&O Cruises still require mask wearing and social distancing even though everyone on board will have been vaccinated twice. how is that positive? surely if everyone is vaccinated there is no need for masks and social distancing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 18, 2021, 10:03:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 07:54:06 AM
Seasonal as in weather? Explain Brazil India all those countries like South Africa that, weather or seasonal wise is better than here and they have high numbers all year round?

Once the kids go back and they carry out the testing in schools the numbers will rise smackhead, hopefully it won't rise to much to put the stages back.

The numbers are down now because we've been 'caged' up for over 80 days and the vaccine is going to reduce the hospital admissions, having seen how well the lockdown worked in reducing other seasonal illnesses then surely it would make good sense to have a mini lockdown.

If no lockdowns we'll need a booster to help with any mutations of this virus.

Europe already arranging vaccine passports, ferry companies demanding them also before cruises allow passengers on. This is positive

I think we are approaching the time when opinion starts to sway towards, it's time to get life back on track.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on March 18, 2021, 10:10:14 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 18, 2021, 10:03:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 07:54:06 AM
Seasonal as in weather? Explain Brazil India all those countries like South Africa that, weather or seasonal wise is better than here and they have high numbers all year round?

Once the kids go back and they carry out the testing in schools the numbers will rise smackhead, hopefully it won't rise to much to put the stages back.

The numbers are down now because we've been 'caged' up for over 80 days and the vaccine is going to reduce the hospital admissions, having seen how well the lockdown worked in reducing other seasonal illnesses then surely it would make good sense to have a mini lockdown.

If no lockdowns we'll need a booster to help with any mutations of this virus.

Europe already arranging vaccine passports, ferry companies demanding them also before cruises allow passengers on. This is positive

I think we are approaching the time when opinion starts to sway towards, it's time to get life back on track.

I think Europe should worry more about vaccinating before any talk of passports!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 10:14:34 AM
The point of insanity of this for me is reopening international travel when domestic society is not allowed to reopen.

It's the absolute height of madness if you are allowed travel around Europe freely yet you can't get your haircut and have to walk around outside with a mask on your face.

I can't see the mask thing sticking. I really have to question the actual impacts of masks anyway, this was brought as mandatory I'd say in Sept? Open to correction here. Compliance with it has been very high from what I've seen. Yet since its introduction as mandatory cases have sky rocketed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on March 18, 2021, 10:25:43 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 10:14:34 AM
The point of insanity of this for me is reopening international travel when domestic society is not allowed to reopen.

It's the absolute height of madness if you are allowed travel around Europe freely yet you can't get your haircut and have to walk around outside with a mask on your face.

I can't see the mask thing sticking. I really have to question the actual impacts of masks anyway, this was brought as mandatory I'd say in Sept? Open to correction here. Compliance with it has been very high from what I've seen. Yet since its introduction as mandatory cases have sky rocketed.

Mask wearing , washing and distancing reduces spread, it can't prevent spread completely. However if there wasn't mask wearing spread would have been quicker and wider. The concern being that in those circumstances the NHS couldn't cope . Post vaccination there needs to be mature reflection on the approach to this pandemic, and learn for the future. Economic and societal wellbeing would be under serious pressure with  another lockdown . Comprehensive statistical analysis of Covid and its restrictions should determine how we deal with ongoing pandemic concerns
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:26:24 AM
You don't have to wear a mask outside. It's not mandatory.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 10:27:32 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:26:24 AM
You don't have to wear a mask outside. It's not mandatory.

Yet.

Wait until we reopen in the summer months. It is mandatory in some European countries at present.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:28:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 10:27:32 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:26:24 AM
You don't have to wear a mask outside. It's not mandatory.

Yet.

Wait until we reopen in the summer months. It is mandatory in some European countries at present.

Yet???????? You said it was ffs!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 10:31:17 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on March 18, 2021, 10:25:43 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 10:14:34 AM
The point of insanity of this for me is reopening international travel when domestic society is not allowed to reopen.

It's the absolute height of madness if you are allowed travel around Europe freely yet you can't get your haircut and have to walk around outside with a mask on your face.

I can't see the mask thing sticking. I really have to question the actual impacts of masks anyway, this was brought as mandatory I'd say in Sept? Open to correction here. Compliance with it has been very high from what I've seen. Yet since its introduction as mandatory cases have sky rocketed.

Mask wearing , washing and distancing reduces spread, it can't prevent spread completely. However if there wasn't mask wearing spread would have been quicker and wider. The concern being that in those circumstances the NHS couldn't cope . Post vaccination there needs to be mature reflection on the approach to this pandemic, and learn for the future. Economic and societal wellbeing would be under serious pressure with  another lockdown . Comprehensive statistical analysis of Covid and its restrictions should determine how we deal with ongoing pandemic concerns

Is this proven?

Have you seen the videos where experts tell you the wear you have to wear your mask? Basically they say unless you follow all the steps described that masks aren't really effective and from watching the video I can say the majority of people do not follow those rules.

This is from the WHO.

Clean your hands before you put your mask on, as well as before and after you take it off, and after you touch it at any time.
Make sure it covers both your nose, mouth and chin.
When you take off a mask, store it in a clean plastic bag, and every day either wash it if it's a fabric mask, or dispose of a medical mask in a trash bin.
Don't use masks with valves.

How many people do you see put their mask into a clear plastic bag after use and wash it every day do you think? I'd say less than 10%.

People comply with masks not really because they believe they are saving lives or stopping the spread by doing so but for fear of being ostracised and set on for not complying.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 10:33:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:28:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 10:27:32 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:26:24 AM
You don't have to wear a mask outside. It's not mandatory.

Yet.

Wait until we reopen in the summer months. It is mandatory in some European countries at present.


Yet???????? You said it was ffs!

I talked about it in a hypothetical sense - if being the key word.

I predict when society reopens in the summer months we will be mandated to wear masks in city streets etc. It is mandatory in many European countries presently.

It's the absolute height of madness if you are allowed travel around Europe freely yet you can't get your haircut and have to walk around outside with a mask on your face.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 18, 2021, 10:39:32 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 10:33:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:28:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 10:27:32 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:26:24 AM
You don't have to wear a mask outside. It's not mandatory.

Yet.

Wait until we reopen in the summer months. It is mandatory in some European countries at present.


Yet???????? You said it was ffs!

I talked about it in a hypothetical sense - if being the key word.

I predict when society reopens in the summer months we will be mandated to wear masks in city streets etc. It is mandatory in many European countries presently.

It's the absolute height of madness if you are allowed travel around Europe freely yet you can't get your haircut and have to walk around outside with a mask on your face.

Angelo has a fair point here. Looks like everyone will be off to Turkey soon for their summer hols, no passport vaccine, no restrictions and back home before you can get a pint in the local.

Mad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:55:09 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 10:33:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:28:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 10:27:32 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:26:24 AM
You don't have to wear a mask outside. It's not mandatory.

Yet.

Wait until we reopen in the summer months. It is mandatory in some European countries at present.


Yet???????? You said it was ffs!

I talked about it in a hypothetical sense - if being the key word.

I predict when society reopens in the summer months we will be mandated to wear masks in city streets etc. It is mandatory in many European countries presently.

It's the absolute height of madness if you are allowed travel around Europe freely yet you can't get your haircut and have to walk around outside with a mask on your face.

Just so that I can get it right here, you don't have to wear a mask outside, that's the current set up and has been that way since last year.

Your other points are correct but you are telling fibs on the mask wearing. Your whole ethos is about stating facts and deal with just the facts, your are talking out of your hole though when you bring in false statements.

The government have got it wrong on so many levels and hopefully they'll be pulled on it when there is an equiry into how it was handled at the start.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 11:08:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:55:09 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 10:33:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:28:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 10:27:32 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:26:24 AM
You don't have to wear a mask outside. It's not mandatory.

Yet.

Wait until we reopen in the summer months. It is mandatory in some European countries at present.


Yet???????? You said it was ffs!

I talked about it in a hypothetical sense - if being the key word.

I predict when society reopens in the summer months we will be mandated to wear masks in city streets etc. It is mandatory in many European countries presently.

It's the absolute height of madness if you are allowed travel around Europe freely yet you can't get your haircut and have to walk around outside with a mask on your face.

Just so that I can get it right here, you don't have to wear a mask outside, that's the current set up and has been that way since last year.

Your other points are correct but you are telling fibs on the mask wearing. Your whole ethos is about stating facts and deal with just the facts, your are talking out of your hole though when you bring in false statements.

The government have got it wrong on so many levels and hopefully they'll be pulled on it when there is an equiry into how it was handled at the start.

I'm not telling any fibs, I'm giving my opinion that the same suit will be followed on one of or both sides of the border this summer as is the case in European countries whereby mask wearing will be made mandatory in outdoor public spaces. You can agree or disagree with that, I don't care but that's the way I see it going this summer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 18, 2021, 11:10:49 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 11:08:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:55:09 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 10:33:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:28:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 10:27:32 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:26:24 AM
You don't have to wear a mask outside. It's not mandatory.

Yet.

Wait until we reopen in the summer months. It is mandatory in some European countries at present.


Yet???????? You said it was ffs!

I talked about it in a hypothetical sense - if being the key word.

I predict when society reopens in the summer months we will be mandated to wear masks in city streets etc. It is mandatory in many European countries presently.

It's the absolute height of madness if you are allowed travel around Europe freely yet you can't get your haircut and have to walk around outside with a mask on your face.

Just so that I can get it right here, you don't have to wear a mask outside, that's the current set up and has been that way since last year.

Your other points are correct but you are telling fibs on the mask wearing. Your whole ethos is about stating facts and deal with just the facts, your are talking out of your hole though when you bring in false statements.

The government have got it wrong on so many levels and hopefully they'll be pulled on it when there is an equiry into how it was handled at the start.

I'm not telling any fibs, I'm giving my opinion that the same suit will be followed on one of or both sides of the border this summer as is the case in European countries whereby mask wearing will be made mandatory in outdoor public spaces. You can agree or disagree with that, I don't care but that's the way I see it going this summer.
Really don't think they'll make masks mandatory outdoors, especially not in the summer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 18, 2021, 11:17:45 AM
On July 1, 2020, the Republic of Ireland announced 4 (four) new cases of Covid-19

We had elimination in our grasp

But because we were firmly on the wrong side of the central divide in this pandemic - the so called "debate" about elimination versus "living with the virus", we blew it

Everything else is noise

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 11:24:59 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 11:08:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:55:09 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 10:33:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:28:28 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 18, 2021, 10:27:32 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:26:24 AM
You don't have to wear a mask outside. It's not mandatory.

Yet.

Wait until we reopen in the summer months. It is mandatory in some European countries at present.


Yet???????? You said it was ffs!

I talked about it in a hypothetical sense - if being the key word.

I predict when society reopens in the summer months we will be mandated to wear masks in city streets etc. It is mandatory in many European countries presently.

It's the absolute height of madness if you are allowed travel around Europe freely yet you can't get your haircut and have to walk around outside with a mask on your face.

Just so that I can get it right here, you don't have to wear a mask outside, that's the current set up and has been that way since last year.

Your other points are correct but you are telling fibs on the mask wearing. Your whole ethos is about stating facts and deal with just the facts, your are talking out of your hole though when you bring in false statements.

The government have got it wrong on so many levels and hopefully they'll be pulled on it when there is an equiry into how it was handled at the start.

I'm not telling any fibs, I'm giving my opinion that the same suit will be followed on one of or both sides of the border this summer as is the case in European countries whereby mask wearing will be made mandatory in outdoor public spaces. You can agree or disagree with that, I don't care but that's the way I see it going this summer.

You said wearing masks is mandatory. you are wrong. Its very simple
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 18, 2021, 12:09:57 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 18, 2021, 11:28:21 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 18, 2021, 11:10:49 AM
Really don't think they'll make masks mandatory outdoors, especially not in the summer.

Was walking down Cookstown main street last Saturday and couldn't believe the amount of people wearing a mask outside.
You should have gone around tearing them off their heads and then coughed in their faces

That would have really showed the brainwashed fascist face nappy wearers

One man's virus spreader is another man's freedom fighter
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on March 18, 2021, 12:18:35 PM
Wearing a mask is simple. It's done in lots of settings with no issues on regualr basis prior to Covid.

Of course there is issues with people correcting wearing or using them but that is far out weighed by the positive effect they can still have on transmission. It's impossible to tell how many transmissions they can effect but once people went indoors for social gatherings and the like round December we seen the huge spike in cases. If they stop even as low as 10% of transmissions (pure speculation) isn't that a lot of good done for something that in no ways affects anyone in their daily lives.

Unless of you course you believe that headbanger in Herbert Park yesterday  :o :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 18, 2021, 12:29:51 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 18, 2021, 10:39:32 AM
Angelo has a fair point here. Looks like everyone will be off to Turkey soon for their summer hols, no passport vaccine, no restrictions and back home before you can get a pint in the local.

In this case anyone going to Turkey should be required to have 14 days hotel quarantine on their return. This might reduce demand.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 18, 2021, 12:32:01 PM
Haven't heard of too many doing quarantine these days now it's brought up. Seems to have been something that has been "eased up"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 18, 2021, 12:33:58 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 18, 2021, 12:32:01 PM
Haven't heard of too many doing quarantine these days now it's brought up. Seems to have been something that has been "eased up"

There isn't much travel at present. The hotel quarantine in the 26 counties is only starting next week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 18, 2021, 04:18:04 PM
EMA says yes to Astraz.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 04:19:44 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 18, 2021, 04:18:04 PM
EMA says yes to Astraz.

Someone will be very disappointed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 18, 2021, 04:23:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 18, 2021, 04:18:04 PM
EMA says yes to Astraz.

It's not safe. Politically anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on March 18, 2021, 04:29:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 18, 2021, 04:23:02 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 18, 2021, 04:18:04 PM
EMA says yes to Astraz.

It's not safe. Politically anyway.

As long as it only causes political clots and not medical ones I'll be fine next wednesday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 18, 2021, 04:41:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2021, 12:33:58 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 18, 2021, 12:32:01 PM
Haven't heard of too many doing quarantine these days now it's brought up. Seems to have been something that has been "eased up"

There isn't much travel at present. The hotel quarantine in the 26 counties is only starting next week.

I know personally 6 people who came home from Middle East recently, got one of those private tests....no quarantine necessary. I don't even know if that's the rules or not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 18, 2021, 05:46:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 18, 2021, 04:41:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2021, 12:33:58 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 18, 2021, 12:32:01 PM
Haven't heard of too many doing quarantine these days now it's brought up. Seems to have been something that has been "eased up"

There isn't much travel at present. The hotel quarantine in the 26 counties is only starting next week.

I know personally 6 people who came home from Middle East recently, got one of those private tests....no quarantine necessary. I don't even know if that's the rules or not.

Everybody has a quarantine requirement. Some people act the bollix about it, but increasingly that will not be tolerated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 05:53:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2021, 05:46:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 18, 2021, 04:41:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2021, 12:33:58 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 18, 2021, 12:32:01 PM
Haven't heard of too many doing quarantine these days now it's brought up. Seems to have been something that has been "eased up"

There isn't much travel at present. The hotel quarantine in the 26 counties is only starting next week.

I know personally 6 people who came home from Middle East recently, got one of those private tests....no quarantine necessary. I don't even know if that's the rules or not.

Everybody has a quarantine requirement. Some people act the bollix about it, but increasingly that will not be tolerated.

If you are coming in from a country outside the agreed list,  I thought it was mandatory to self isolate for 14 days, has that changed?

Are there people not doing that?  I'd friends who went away during the summer and had to quarantine for 2 weeks when they came home. I didn't realise this had changed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 18, 2021, 08:43:58 PM
Quarantine requirements for the 26 counties

The Government has introduced additional short-term restrictions on international travel. Visa-free travel to Ireland for nationals of South Africa and all countries in South America has been suspended. The Department of Justice has temporarily ceased accepting new visa/preclearance applications globally (with limited exemptions).

From 4 February 2021, a legal requirement to home quarantine has been introduced for all passengers arriving in Ireland.  Only very limited categories of passengers can be exempt from this legal requirement.

On 26 February, the Minister of Health designated an additional 13 countries and territories as "Category 2 Countries and Territories". These countries/territories are: Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, French Guiana, Guyana, Paraguay, Panama, Peru, Suriname, Uruguay and Venezuela.

The 20 countries below were previously designated as "Category 2 Countries": 

Angola, Austria, Botswana, Brazil, Burundi, Cape Verde, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Eswatini, Lesotho, Malawi, Mauritius, Mozambique, Namibia, Republic of South Africa, Rwanda, Seychelles, Tanzania, United Arab Emirates, Zambia and Zimbabwe.

All passengers arriving into Ireland from these 33 countries and territories or transiting through one of these countries/territories must now complete a full mandatory 14-day period of self-quarantine if they have been in any of these countries/territories in the previous 14 days, even if they receive a negative RT-PCR test result after arriving in the State. This applies even if the passenger remains airside during transit on their journey to Ireland.

For passengers from all other countries, the quarantine period can finish earlier, if the passenger obtains a negative result of a RT-PCR test taken no less than 5 days after arrival in the State.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 10:11:58 PM
New National lockdowns in Europe. Strange when European weather is starting to get warmer, with this being a seasonal virus flu like thingy I'd have thought the numbers would drop. Ah well
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Olly on March 18, 2021, 10:59:02 PM
At what stage does Bill Gates say enough is enough. In the Truman Show it took at least 3 people to call a halt to it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on March 18, 2021, 11:03:21 PM
Paris going into lockdown for a month, but keeping their schools open.

Hopefully the people who believe Covid is seasonal can tell us how long this outbreak will last and/or what month they they think it'll go out of srason
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on March 18, 2021, 11:41:35 PM
Why is there such a fixation in the claimed science of the need for 14 day quarantine for every intl arrival?
A test on arrival  followed by quarantine  for 4 or 5 days, and if a 2nd test  still shows up negative  - release from quarantine should be the norm..
I read in Iceland that since last August  some 77,000  arrivals have been released from quarantine after 4 or  5 days when their 2nd test shows up negative. Not one of those 77k later came to the attention of the Health officials and this is a place where each positive test in the community is tracked and traced to the nth degree.


Out of the 77,000 arrivals who were 2nd tested after 5 days, less that 200 of them tested positive and had to remain in quarantine for the full 14 days.
https://www.covid.is/data
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Olly on March 18, 2021, 11:46:59 PM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You think Iceland is a real country.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 19, 2021, 01:19:38 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 18, 2021, 11:41:35 PM
Why is there such a fixation in the claimed science of the need for 14 day quarantine for every intl arrival?
A test on arrival  followed by quarantine  for 4 or 5 days, and if a 2nd test  still shows up negative  - release from quarantine should be the norm..
I read in Iceland that since last August  some 77,000  arrivals have been released from quarantine after 4 or  5 days when their 2nd test shows up negative. Not one of those 77k later came to the attention of the Health officials and this is a place where each positive test in the community is tracked and traced to the nth degree.


Out of the 77,000 arrivals who were 2nd tested after 5 days, less that 200 of them tested positive and had to remain in quarantine for the full 14 days.
https://www.covid.is/data

5 days is not long enough, you probably need 7 days to be anyway safe.
As I posted above, people from places without the South African or Brazilian variants can have a test after 5 days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 19, 2021, 07:14:07 AM
We are going at a snails pace for reopening
What's the odds when golf courses open we are in the same position as today?
150 cases per day and 0-2 deaths per day.
I really can't see it getting any better
1 million total vaccinations will be very close to hitting the 1 million target by the end of week 1 in April
A great achievement
Another small lockdown next winter is likely
Be ready for it
Milly and the lads will get a few weeks off towards the end of the year
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2021, 08:53:53 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 19, 2021, 07:14:07 AM
We are going at a snails pace for reopening
What's the odds when golf courses open we are in the same position as today?
150 cases per day and 0-2 deaths per day.
I really can't see it getting any better
1 million total vaccinations will be very close to hitting the 1 million target by the end of week 1 in April
A great achievement
Another small lockdown next winter is likely
Be ready for it
Milly and the lads will get a few weeks off towards the end of the year

No smackhead, I'll be front and center, have been since June, I've mentioned it a few times now but your reading skills seem poor enough to have picked up on that.

As for another lockdown, the rest of Europe is going into a 3rd wave of this and National lockdowns in a lot of areas. You'd be losing your shit if you were from those countries. I wonder what season we are heading into now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 09:17:32 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 19, 2021, 07:14:07 AM
We are going at a snails pace for reopening
What's the odds when golf courses open we are in the same position as today?
150 cases per day and 0-2 deaths per day.
I really can't see it getting any better
1 million total vaccinations will be very close to hitting the 1 million target by the end of week 1 in April
A great achievement
Another small lockdown next winter is likely
Be ready for it
Milly and the lads will get a few weeks off towards the end of the year

You are probably right, but it would appear Northern Ireland is persuing a zero covid approach (without the tracing to compliment).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2021, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 09:17:32 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 19, 2021, 07:14:07 AM
We are going at a snails pace for reopening
What's the odds when golf courses open we are in the same position as today?
150 cases per day and 0-2 deaths per day.
I really can't see it getting any better
1 million total vaccinations will be very close to hitting the 1 million target by the end of week 1 in April
A great achievement
Another small lockdown next winter is likely
Be ready for it
Milly and the lads will get a few weeks off towards the end of the year

You are probably right, but it would appear Northern Ireland is persuing a zero covid approach (without the tracing to compliment).

I think the approach is manageable hospital admissions and low deaths. I haven't heard one specialist say zero covid, they have all said it is here to stay in some form, and its about bringing down the hospital admissions
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 10:24:41 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2021, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 09:17:32 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 19, 2021, 07:14:07 AM
We are going at a snails pace for reopening
What's the odds when golf courses open we are in the same position as today?
150 cases per day and 0-2 deaths per day.
I really can't see it getting any better
1 million total vaccinations will be very close to hitting the 1 million target by the end of week 1 in April
A great achievement
Another small lockdown next winter is likely
Be ready for it
Milly and the lads will get a few weeks off towards the end of the year

You are probably right, but it would appear Northern Ireland is persuing a zero covid approach (without the tracing to compliment).

I think the approach is manageable hospital admissions and low deaths. I haven't heard one specialist say zero covid, they have all said it is here to stay in some form, and its about bringing down the hospital admissions

They won't say it for a good reason. The last thing Belfast needs is an anti lockdown riot (But some kind of protest is imminent soon I feel).

The executive has been following "worst case scenario" since last March, that's what every decision they make is based on since Robin Swanns now infamous warning "disaster of biblical proportions" gaffe.

It's on the way, I believe and hope this time next month we are pretty much back to normal....Pubs/Nightclubs a little later of course.

As you say above, it's all about reducing admissions - we have over 713k first dose vaccines administered yesterday according to DOH twitter account. So that is basically 50% of the country done, assuming there are some 400k under 18s and about 100k (random plucked figure) who won't get the vaccine / won't take the vaccine. There will be literally no reason to keep the country closed much longer, especially with the DUP by all accounts the only party driving the country back to normality (who would have thought...).

Soon there will be 1million people here of 1.8m vaccinated, if the country is not open by then, Belfast will be wrecked.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2021, 10:27:51 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 10:24:41 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2021, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 09:17:32 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 19, 2021, 07:14:07 AM
We are going at a snails pace for reopening
What's the odds when golf courses open we are in the same position as today?
150 cases per day and 0-2 deaths per day.
I really can't see it getting any better
1 million total vaccinations will be very close to hitting the 1 million target by the end of week 1 in April
A great achievement
Another small lockdown next winter is likely
Be ready for it
Milly and the lads will get a few weeks off towards the end of the year

You are probably right, but it would appear Northern Ireland is persuing a zero covid approach (without the tracing to compliment).

I think the approach is manageable hospital admissions and low deaths. I haven't heard one specialist say zero covid, they have all said it is here to stay in some form, and its about bringing down the hospital admissions

They won't say it for a good reason. The last thing Belfast needs is an anti lockdown riot (But some kind of protest is imminent soon I feel).

The executive has been following "worst case scenario" since last March, that's what every decision they make is based on since Robin Swanns now infamous warning "disaster of biblical proportions" gaffe.

It's on the way, I believe and hope this time next month we are pretty much back to normal....Pubs/Nightclubs a little later of course.

As you say above, it's all about reducing admissions - we have over 713k first dose vaccines administered yesterday according to DOH twitter account. So that is basically 50% of the country done, assuming there are some 400k under 18s and about 100k (random plucked figure) who won't get the vaccine / won't take the vaccine. There will be literally no reason to keep the country closed much longer, especially with the DUP by all accounts the only party driving the country back to normality (who would have thought...).

Soon there will be 1million people here of 1.8m vaccinated, if the country is not open by then, Belfast will be wrecked.

Could 100k who don't get it spoil it for everyone else? Catching the virus and it mutating and so on?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on March 19, 2021, 10:29:46 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 10:24:41 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2021, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 09:17:32 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 19, 2021, 07:14:07 AM
We are going at a snails pace for reopening
What's the odds when golf courses open we are in the same position as today?
150 cases per day and 0-2 deaths per day.
I really can't see it getting any better
1 million total vaccinations will be very close to hitting the 1 million target by the end of week 1 in April
A great achievement
Another small lockdown next winter is likely
Be ready for it
Milly and the lads will get a few weeks off towards the end of the year

You are probably right, but it would appear Northern Ireland is persuing a zero covid approach (without the tracing to compliment).

I think the approach is manageable hospital admissions and low deaths. I haven't heard one specialist say zero covid, they have all said it is here to stay in some form, and its about bringing down the hospital admissions

They won't say it for a good reason. The last thing Belfast needs is an anti lockdown riot (But some kind of protest is imminent soon I feel).

The executive has been following "worst case scenario" since last March, that's what every decision they make is based on since Robin Swanns now infamous warning "disaster of biblical proportions" gaffe.

It's on the way, I believe and hope this time next month we are pretty much back to normal....Pubs/Nightclubs a little later of course.

As you say above, it's all about reducing admissions - we have over 713k first dose vaccines administered yesterday according to DOH twitter account. So that is basically 50% of the country done, assuming there are some 400k under 18s and about 100k (random plucked figure) who won't get the vaccine / won't take the vaccine. There will be literally no reason to keep the country closed much longer, especially with the DUP by all accounts the only party driving the country back to normality (who would have thought...).

Soon there will be 1million people here of 1.8m vaccinated, if the country is not open by then, Belfast will be wrecked.

Will they have to tidy it up first before they wreck it?  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 10:32:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2021, 10:27:51 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 10:24:41 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2021, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 09:17:32 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 19, 2021, 07:14:07 AM
We are going at a snails pace for reopening
What's the odds when golf courses open we are in the same position as today?
150 cases per day and 0-2 deaths per day.
I really can't see it getting any better
1 million total vaccinations will be very close to hitting the 1 million target by the end of week 1 in April
A great achievement
Another small lockdown next winter is likely
Be ready for it
Milly and the lads will get a few weeks off towards the end of the year

You are probably right, but it would appear Northern Ireland is persuing a zero covid approach (without the tracing to compliment).

I think the approach is manageable hospital admissions and low deaths. I haven't heard one specialist say zero covid, they have all said it is here to stay in some form, and its about bringing down the hospital admissions

They won't say it for a good reason. The last thing Belfast needs is an anti lockdown riot (But some kind of protest is imminent soon I feel).

The executive has been following "worst case scenario" since last March, that's what every decision they make is based on since Robin Swanns now infamous warning "disaster of biblical proportions" gaffe.

It's on the way, I believe and hope this time next month we are pretty much back to normal....Pubs/Nightclubs a little later of course.

As you say above, it's all about reducing admissions - we have over 713k first dose vaccines administered yesterday according to DOH twitter account. So that is basically 50% of the country done, assuming there are some 400k under 18s and about 100k (random plucked figure) who won't get the vaccine / won't take the vaccine. There will be literally no reason to keep the country closed much longer, especially with the DUP by all accounts the only party driving the country back to normality (who would have thought...).

Soon there will be 1million people here of 1.8m vaccinated, if the country is not open by then, Belfast will be wrecked.

Could 100k who don't get it spoil it for everyone else? Catching the virus and it mutating and so on?

I really hope not. But if we are not perusing a zero covid strategy.....surely not, especially with the DUP looking the party started as soon as possible (to save themselves as a party after the leaked email re: Irish Sea Border).

I duno, where do you stand on that? If they don't want the vaccine, what can you do? 100k cannot stop life returning to normal surely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 10:32:44 AM
Quote from: Louther on March 19, 2021, 10:29:46 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 10:24:41 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2021, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 09:17:32 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 19, 2021, 07:14:07 AM
We are going at a snails pace for reopening
What's the odds when golf courses open we are in the same position as today?
150 cases per day and 0-2 deaths per day.
I really can't see it getting any better
1 million total vaccinations will be very close to hitting the 1 million target by the end of week 1 in April
A great achievement
Another small lockdown next winter is likely
Be ready for it
Milly and the lads will get a few weeks off towards the end of the year

You are probably right, but it would appear Northern Ireland is persuing a zero covid approach (without the tracing to compliment).

I think the approach is manageable hospital admissions and low deaths. I haven't heard one specialist say zero covid, they have all said it is here to stay in some form, and its about bringing down the hospital admissions

They won't say it for a good reason. The last thing Belfast needs is an anti lockdown riot (But some kind of protest is imminent soon I feel).

The executive has been following "worst case scenario" since last March, that's what every decision they make is based on since Robin Swanns now infamous warning "disaster of biblical proportions" gaffe.

It's on the way, I believe and hope this time next month we are pretty much back to normal....Pubs/Nightclubs a little later of course.

As you say above, it's all about reducing admissions - we have over 713k first dose vaccines administered yesterday according to DOH twitter account. So that is basically 50% of the country done, assuming there are some 400k under 18s and about 100k (random plucked figure) who won't get the vaccine / won't take the vaccine. There will be literally no reason to keep the country closed much longer, especially with the DUP by all accounts the only party driving the country back to normality (who would have thought...).

Soon there will be 1million people here of 1.8m vaccinated, if the country is not open by then, Belfast will be wrecked.

Will they have to tidy it up first before they wreck it?  ;)

;D You win this round!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on March 19, 2021, 01:21:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 19, 2021, 01:19:38 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 18, 2021, 11:41:35 PM
Why is there such a fixation in the claimed science of the need for 14 day quarantine for every intl arrival?
A test on arrival  followed by quarantine  for 4 or 5 days, and if a 2nd test  still shows up negative  - release from quarantine should be the norm..
I read in Iceland that since last August  some 77,000  arrivals have been released from quarantine after 4 or  5 days when their 2nd test shows up negative. Not one of those 77k later came to the attention of the Health officials and this is a place where each positive test in the community is tracked and traced to the nth degree.


Out of the 77,000 arrivals who were 2nd tested after 5 days, less that 200 of them tested positive and had to remain in quarantine for the full 14 days.
https://www.covid.is/data

5 days is not long enough, you probably need 7 days to be anyway safe.
As I posted above, people from places without the South African or Brazilian variants can have a test after 5 days.
Is there any research which shows the number of people in quarantine, who tested negative on the first and the the 5th day,  who then went on to test posive in the next two days?

Is there any research which shows that 5 days with 2 tests  is not long enough? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 19, 2021, 01:35:51 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 19, 2021, 01:21:00 PM
Is there any research which shows the number of people in quarantine, who tested negative on the first and the the 5th day,  who then went on to test posive in the next two days?

Is there any research which shows that 5 days with 2 tests  is not long enough?

Yes, there have been cases of people passing the test at 5 days and then developing Covid after 5 days. The number may not be that large but it still requires the test to be moved out to 7 days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 19, 2021, 02:06:12 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 10:24:41 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 19, 2021, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 09:17:32 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on March 19, 2021, 07:14:07 AM
We are going at a snails pace for reopening
What's the odds when golf courses open we are in the same position as today?
150 cases per day and 0-2 deaths per day.
I really can't see it getting any better
1 million total vaccinations will be very close to hitting the 1 million target by the end of week 1 in April
A great achievement
Another small lockdown next winter is likely
Be ready for it
Milly and the lads will get a few weeks off towards the end of the year

You are probably right, but it would appear Northern Ireland is persuing a zero covid approach (without the tracing to compliment).

I think the approach is manageable hospital admissions and low deaths. I haven't heard one specialist say zero covid, they have all said it is here to stay in some form, and its about bringing down the hospital admissions

They won't say it for a good reason. The last thing Belfast needs is an anti lockdown riot (But some kind of protest is imminent soon I feel).

The executive has been following "worst case scenario" since last March, that's what every decision they make is based on since Robin Swanns now infamous warning "disaster of biblical proportions" gaffe.

It's on the way, I believe and hope this time next month we are pretty much back to normal....Pubs/Nightclubs a little later of course.

As you say above, it's all about reducing admissions - we have over 713k first dose vaccines administered yesterday according to DOH twitter account. So that is basically 50% of the country done, assuming there are some 400k under 18s and about 100k (random plucked figure) who won't get the vaccine / won't take the vaccine. There will be literally no reason to keep the country closed much longer, especially with the DUP by all accounts the only party driving the country back to normality (who would have thought...).

Soon there will be 1million people here of 1.8m vaccinated, if the country is not open by then, Belfast will be wrecked.

Dunno if there will be a riot / protest but I don't know anyone who is still abiding by the regulations and not meeting up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 02:20:34 PM
I can see an anti lockdown protest being hijacked by an anti irish seaborder element and what other eejits feel the need to get involved. They are happening regularly enough down South - it's probably only a matter of time before one comes our way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 21, 2021, 05:59:53 PM
ROI weekly update.  First week since January to not have a decrease in cases, mixing on mothers day and St Patricks day played a part in that?

Cases 3864 (320 more than last week)
Reported Deaths 56 (57 fewer than last week)

In hospital 360 (11 more than a week ago)
In ICU 82 (4 fewer than last Sunday)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 06:03:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 02:20:34 PM
I can see an anti lockdown protest being hijacked by an anti irish seaborder element and what other eejits feel the need to get involved. They are happening regularly enough down South - it's probably only a matter of time before one comes our way.
How could an anti-lockdown demo be "hijacked" by eejits when such demos are by definition eejitry?



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 21, 2021, 06:11:43 PM
Flag protests and no Irish Sea border would probably be the grouping. There's still a flag protest every Saturday at Belfast city hall. I think there are about four or five of them...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2021, 06:42:46 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 21, 2021, 06:11:43 PM
Flag protests and no Irish Sea border would probably be the grouping. There's still a flag protest every Saturday at Belfast city hall. I think there are about four or five of them...

Of them or at them  ;D

Who will the protests be aimed at? Will the UDA be taking their campaign to the UK?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 21, 2021, 07:56:39 PM
There's supposed to be stuff in the papers today about the loyalist paramilitaries  but haven't read it. Talk of bringing down stormont too. (That makes no sense as they then give power to the people who set up the sea border so I don't know what is hoped to be achieved).

4 or 5 people not protests... They are an "interesting " looking bunch.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 21, 2021, 07:59:10 PM
Who's Jamie blaming? It must be so confusing for them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on March 21, 2021, 08:10:29 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 21, 2021, 07:56:39 PM
There's supposed to be stuff in the papers today about the loyalist paramilitaries  but haven't read it. Talk of bringing down stormont too. (That makes no sense as they then give power to the people who set up the sea border so I don't know what is hoped to be achieved).

4 or 5 people not protests... They are an "interesting " looking bunch.

"The English government will do the right thing" is a quote from it.

They truly have the memory of a goldfish and will never ever learn.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 22, 2021, 09:37:09 AM
It's pretty obvious now the Zero Covid people were right all along

The difference between the Zero Covid countries and Ireland and most of the world was like two footballers doing their cruciate

One decides, "OK, I have a serious injury here, I'm going to get the operation, do my recovery and rehab and slowly build myself back up, and I'll return to training and playing only when the time is right, and come back as strong as I was before the the injury"

That was New Zealand

The other decides "f**k operations, I don't want to miss these important games coming up, f**k my injury, I'm playing"

They're warned by the doctor that this is a bad idea - but in response they say "you just don't get it, I have to play these important matches"

But every time they try to play, they have to hobble off after a couple of minutes, and they keep making the injury worse

That was Ireland and Europe and the US



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 22, 2021, 10:22:03 AM
The measures put in place have only ever been half baked and now there is almost no way out of them.

On a note of the NHS in the north. There are currently ~170 give or take in hospital with covid and the hospital capacity is at 96%. The health service really is creaking here :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on March 22, 2021, 11:03:06 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 22, 2021, 10:22:03 AM
The measures put in place have only ever been half baked and now there is almost no way out of them.

On a note of the NHS in the north. There are currently ~170 give or take in hospital with covid and the hospital capacity is at 96%. The health service really is creaking here :(

Exactly, therein lies the problem
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 22, 2021, 11:03:20 AM
Zero Covid is of course the ideal world. But is it possible? Considering where Ireland is located, England is 20 mins away and they will be open for business fully in weeks.

Protest Marches on the up, is public demand in general there....people just want their lives back. Can it be pushed back further and further?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 22, 2021, 11:13:33 AM
Covid doesn't seem to be taking these protest marches seriously.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 22, 2021, 11:16:32 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 22, 2021, 11:03:20 AM
Zero Covid is of course the ideal world. But is it possible? Considering where Ireland is located, England is 20 mins away and they will be open for business fully in weeks.

Protest Marches on the up, is public demand in general there....people just want their lives back. Can it be pushed back further and further?
It was possible

It may not be possible now

But neither is opening up possible

(https://i.imgur.com/EAZCqF8.gif)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on March 22, 2021, 11:28:02 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 22, 2021, 10:22:03 AM
The measures put in place have only ever been half baked and now there is almost no way out of them.

On a note of the NHS in the north. There are currently ~170 give or take in hospital with covid and the hospital capacity is at 96%. The health service really is creaking here :(

where are you getting your stats? in ICU as of yesterday there were 14 beds occupied with Covid 69 as other and 21 free beds. in the general bed terms there were 118 Covid occupied 2624 non Covid and 119 unoccupied. so 14+118= is 132 in hosp with Covid. I stand to be corrected but thats just lifted straight from the dashboard. ive said it before and il say it again, its not the publics job to 'protect the NHS' its the government's job to properly fund the NHS and give it the resources required to function. the Covid numbers are not what has the NHS 'cracking here'
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 22, 2021, 11:40:55 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 22, 2021, 11:28:02 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 22, 2021, 10:22:03 AM
The measures put in place have only ever been half baked and now there is almost no way out of them.

On a note of the NHS in the north. There are currently ~170 give or take in hospital with covid and the hospital capacity is at 96%. The health service really is creaking here :(

where are you getting your stats? in ICU as of yesterday there were 14 beds occupied with Covid 69 as other and 21 free beds. in the general bed terms there were 118 Covid occupied 2624 non Covid and 119 unoccupied. so 14+118= is 132 in hosp with Covid. I stand to be corrected but thats just lifted straight from the dashboard. ive said it before and il say it again, its not the publics job to 'protect the NHS' its the government's job to properly fund the NHS and give it the resources required to function. the Covid numbers are not what has the NHS 'cracking here'

The problem is that there is no quick way to expand health capacity, this is something done over decades. If the public has elected a government that has not provided that capacity then it must live within it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 22, 2021, 11:44:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 06:03:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 02:20:34 PM
I can see an anti lockdown protest being hijacked by an anti irish seaborder element and what other eejits feel the need to get involved. They are happening regularly enough down South - it's probably only a matter of time before one comes our way.
How could an anti-lockdown demo be "hijacked" by eejits when such demos are by definition eejitry?
So anyone that has had enough of lockdown is an eejit now? Good man.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2021, 11:44:29 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 22, 2021, 11:28:02 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 22, 2021, 10:22:03 AM
The measures put in place have only ever been half baked and now there is almost no way out of them.

On a note of the NHS in the north. There are currently ~170 give or take in hospital with covid and the hospital capacity is at 96%. The health service really is creaking here :(

where are you getting your stats? in ICU as of yesterday there were 14 beds occupied with Covid 69 as other and 21 free beds. in the general bed terms there were 118 Covid occupied 2624 non Covid and 119 unoccupied. so 14+118= is 132 in hosp with Covid. I stand to be corrected but thats just lifted straight from the dashboard. ive said it before and il say it again, its not the publics job to 'protect the NHS' its the government's job to properly fund the NHS and give it the resources required to function. the Covid numbers are not what has the NHS 'cracking here'

Unfortunately we are dealing with years of underfunding, but that's not going to get us out if the hole now, unless we reducing hospital admissions then we are snookered. At the minute the government are using a sticking plaster (the vaccine) to halt the slide. Going forward though they will need to extensively fix the problems.

Be prepared for a rise in taxes, as there is no other way, other than private health care to fix the NHS
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on March 22, 2021, 11:51:33 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 22, 2021, 11:40:55 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 22, 2021, 11:28:02 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 22, 2021, 10:22:03 AM
The measures put in place have only ever been half baked and now there is almost no way out of them.

On a note of the NHS in the north. There are currently ~170 give or take in hospital with covid and the hospital capacity is at 96%. The health service really is creaking here :(

where are you getting your stats? in ICU as of yesterday there were 14 beds occupied with Covid 69 as other and 21 free beds. in the general bed terms there were 118 Covid occupied 2624 non Covid and 119 unoccupied. so 14+118= is 132 in hosp with Covid. I stand to be corrected but thats just lifted straight from the dashboard. ive said it before and il say it again, its not the publics job to 'protect the NHS' its the government's job to properly fund the NHS and give it the resources required to function. the Covid numbers are not what has the NHS 'cracking here'

The problem is that there is no quick way to expand health capacity, this is something done over decades. If the public has elected a government that has not provided that capacity then it must live within it.

im not disputing that, but at the minute we are still in a state of lockdown incase cases surge and put the NHS under stress, im pointing out the stress on the NHS at this moment isn't down to Covid exclusively its been years of cuts and terrible mismanagement. I just dont see how, when looking at the figures and the direction we are going along with the data coming out of Isreal that we are at the stage we are it just seems crazy. again, not saying fire everything open but the vaccine really is being proven to be the silver bullet yet the govt are still looking a the numbers as if there is no vaccine at play, I find it really strange
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 22, 2021, 11:55:43 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 22, 2021, 11:44:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 06:03:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 02:20:34 PM
I can see an anti lockdown protest being hijacked by an anti irish seaborder element and what other eejits feel the need to get involved. They are happening regularly enough down South - it's probably only a matter of time before one comes our way.
How could an anti-lockdown demo be "hijacked" by eejits when such demos are by definition eejitry?
So anyone that has had enough of lockdown is an eejit now? Good man.
It depends what you mean by "had enough", doesn't it

Being sick of the current situation, or frustrated by it, doesn't make you an eejit

Wishing it would end doesn't make you an eejit, I'd love it to end

I've yet to hear any actual proposal in any of these anti-lockdown demonstrations which isn't pure eejitry

My personal view is that these self styled "anti-lockdown" chancers are desperate for deaths to continue because they want to try and be relevant, they want to create major media profiles for themselves, mostly with the aim of making a cheap buck and/or spreading far right politics

Dolores Cahill, for instance, is happy to spout utter shite to a gullible audience like the Pied Piper of Hamlin, and then go back to the castle she owns and live it up

She's laughing at the people who listen to her

The anti-lockdown chancers hate ordinary people







Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 22, 2021, 12:04:49 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 22, 2021, 11:44:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 06:03:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 02:20:34 PM
I can see an anti lockdown protest being hijacked by an anti irish seaborder element and what other eejits feel the need to get involved. They are happening regularly enough down South - it's probably only a matter of time before one comes our way.
How could an anti-lockdown demo be "hijacked" by eejits when such demos are by definition eejitry?
So anyone that has had enough of lockdown is an eejit now? Good man.

Huge difference between someone having enough of lockdowns and someone out protesting about lockdowns.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 22, 2021, 12:43:17 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 22, 2021, 12:04:49 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 22, 2021, 11:44:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 06:03:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 02:20:34 PM
I can see an anti lockdown protest being hijacked by an anti irish seaborder element and what other eejits feel the need to get involved. They are happening regularly enough down South - it's probably only a matter of time before one comes our way.
How could an anti-lockdown demo be "hijacked" by eejits when such demos are by definition eejitry?
So anyone that has had enough of lockdown is an eejit now? Good man.

Huge difference between someone having enough of lockdowns and someone out protesting about lockdowns.
I can't blame anyone who is protesting against these draconian lockdowns. The governments disgraceful handling of easing restrictions and abysmal vaccine rollout (in the free state) are fuelling the fire.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 22, 2021, 12:55:22 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 22, 2021, 12:04:49 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 22, 2021, 11:44:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 06:03:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 02:20:34 PM
I can see an anti lockdown protest being hijacked by an anti irish seaborder element and what other eejits feel the need to get involved. They are happening regularly enough down South - it's probably only a matter of time before one comes our way.
How could an anti-lockdown demo be "hijacked" by eejits when such demos are by definition eejitry?
So anyone that has had enough of lockdown is an eejit now? Good man.

Huge difference between someone having enough of lockdowns and someone out protesting about lockdowns.

Normally I would agree, but unfortunately this working from home / furlough seems to be having an effect on people's minds negatively.

I know normal minded people about a year ago now full on conspiracy theorists, they have obviously picked it up sitting at home bored or gotten so frustrated they believe it now.

Fella I would have considered straight down the middle, happy go lucky. Now he's off to these marches all over Ireland and it's being paid for by Her Majesty claiming a great reset and the like.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 22, 2021, 01:03:17 PM
Reports of Covid issues in Carrick on suir with two schools closed already this morning.

Could be another variant
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 22, 2021, 01:26:53 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 22, 2021, 01:03:17 PM
Reports of Covid issues in Carrick on suir with two schools closed already this morning.

Could be another variant

Are you saying it could be or are the health authorities saying that it could be another variant?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on March 22, 2021, 01:29:51 PM
Daily hospital admissions in England below where they were when we came out of the 1st lockdown according to the world of twitter although I could only find statistics going back to August.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 22, 2021, 01:30:43 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 22, 2021, 11:28:02 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 22, 2021, 10:22:03 AM
The measures put in place have only ever been half baked and now there is almost no way out of them.

On a note of the NHS in the north. There are currently ~170 give or take in hospital with covid and the hospital capacity is at 96%. The health service really is creaking here :(

where are you getting your stats? in ICU as of yesterday there were 14 beds occupied with Covid 69 as other and 21 free beds. in the general bed terms there were 118 Covid occupied 2624 non Covid and 119 unoccupied. so 14+118= is 132 in hosp with Covid. I stand to be corrected but thats just lifted straight from the dashboard. ive said it before and il say it again, its not the publics job to 'protect the NHS' its the government's job to properly fund the NHS and give it the resources required to function. the Covid numbers are not what has the NHS 'cracking here'

14 icu plus 158 inpatients. Last I looked on the dashboard there were 158 inpatients.

Yeah my point on the nhs was not really about us "protecting it" more how fragile it clearly is. It will only get moreso.  That's with or without covid. Some job the tories have done there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 22, 2021, 02:10:34 PM
Currently 160 inpatients plus 15 icu and hospital occupancy at 96% according to COVID ni dashboard.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 22, 2021, 02:14:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2021, 11:44:29 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 22, 2021, 11:28:02 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 22, 2021, 10:22:03 AM
The measures put in place have only ever been half baked and now there is almost no way out of them.

On a note of the NHS in the north. There are currently ~170 give or take in hospital with covid and the hospital capacity is at 96%. The health service really is creaking here :(

where are you getting your stats? in ICU as of yesterday there were 14 beds occupied with Covid 69 as other and 21 free beds. in the general bed terms there were 118 Covid occupied 2624 non Covid and 119 unoccupied. so 14+118= is 132 in hosp with Covid. I stand to be corrected but thats just lifted straight from the dashboard. ive said it before and il say it again, its not the publics job to 'protect the NHS' its the government's job to properly fund the NHS and give it the resources required to function. the Covid numbers are not what has the NHS 'cracking here'

Unfortunately we are dealing with years of underfunding, but that's not going to get us out if the hole now, unless we reducing hospital admissions then we are snookered. At the minute the government are using a sticking plaster (the vaccine) to halt the slide. Going forward though they will need to extensively fix the problems.

Be prepared for a rise in taxes, as there is no other way, other than private health care to fix the NHS

Don't think for one second the privatisation of the NHS won't be pushed massively in a year...two....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 22, 2021, 02:19:47 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 22, 2021, 12:43:17 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 22, 2021, 12:04:49 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 22, 2021, 11:44:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 06:03:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 02:20:34 PM
I can see an anti lockdown protest being hijacked by an anti irish seaborder element and what other eejits feel the need to get involved. They are happening regularly enough down South - it's probably only a matter of time before one comes our way.
How could an anti-lockdown demo be "hijacked" by eejits when such demos are by definition eejitry?
So anyone that has had enough of lockdown is an eejit now? Good man.

Huge difference between someone having enough of lockdowns and someone out protesting about lockdowns.
I can't blame anyone who is protesting against these draconian lockdowns. The governments disgraceful handling of easing restrictions and abysmal vaccine rollout (in the free state) are fuelling the fire.

Well, we defer greatly on how we think our fellow men / woman should be behaving atm.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 22, 2021, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 22, 2021, 12:55:22 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 22, 2021, 12:04:49 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 22, 2021, 11:44:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 06:03:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 02:20:34 PM
I can see an anti lockdown protest being hijacked by an anti irish seaborder element and what other eejits feel the need to get involved. They are happening regularly enough down South - it's probably only a matter of time before one comes our way.
How could an anti-lockdown demo be "hijacked" by eejits when such demos are by definition eejitry?
So anyone that has had enough of lockdown is an eejit now? Good man.

Huge difference between someone having enough of lockdowns and someone out protesting about lockdowns.

Normally I would agree, but unfortunately this working from home / furlough seems to be having an effect on people's minds negatively.

I know normal minded people about a year ago now full on conspiracy theorists, they have obviously picked it up sitting at home bored or gotten so frustrated they believe it now.

Fella I would have considered straight down the middle, happy go lucky. Now he's off to these marches all over Ireland and it's being paid for by Her Majesty claiming a great reset and the like.

Absolutely, plenty of people way way down that rabbit hole
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on March 22, 2021, 02:28:20 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 22, 2021, 02:10:34 PM
Currently 160 inpatients plus 15 icu and hospital occupancy at 96% according to COVID ni dashboard.
I see your logic there you've taken the 160 by admissions, if you look at note 3 it says that it includes people who have been admitted for other reasons but subsequently tested positive for Covid.

if you look at the heading for general bed capacity it gives a better breakdown, 116 Covid occupied beds 2636 other, 83 awaiting admission = 2835 which is 96% of the 2961 available. so in percentage terms Covid is taking 5% of beds in hospitals at the minute. even if it was the 160, its between 5-6% of beds. Again im not saying this isnt an issue, but when you look at the numbers completely bombing on a week by week basis and the vaccine roll out to the vulnerable being so good I think the hard questions need asked of the executive. they say these are hard decisions, well actually its the opposite, its easy to keep the status quo and keeping going along. the hard thing would be to put the work in to make things open up in a safe way to allow people who are really struggling to get a lifeline back
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 22, 2021, 02:38:06 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 22, 2021, 02:33:33 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 22, 2021, 12:55:22 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 22, 2021, 12:04:49 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 22, 2021, 11:44:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 06:03:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 02:20:34 PM
I can see an anti lockdown protest being hijacked by an anti irish seaborder element and what other eejits feel the need to get involved. They are happening regularly enough down South - it's probably only a matter of time before one comes our way.
How could an anti-lockdown demo be "hijacked" by eejits when such demos are by definition eejitry?
So anyone that has had enough of lockdown is an eejit now? Good man.

Huge difference between someone having enough of lockdowns and someone out protesting about lockdowns.

Normally I would agree, but unfortunately this working from home / furlough seems to be having an effect on people's minds negatively.

I know normal minded people about a year ago now full on conspiracy theorists, they have obviously picked it up sitting at home bored or gotten so frustrated they believe it now.

Fella I would have considered straight down the middle, happy go lucky. Now he's off to these marches all over Ireland and it's being paid for by Her Majesty claiming a great reset and the like.

Take away the furlough and most folk will be out protesting.

No they would not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 22, 2021, 02:53:08 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on March 22, 2021, 02:28:20 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 22, 2021, 02:10:34 PM
Currently 160 inpatients plus 15 icu and hospital occupancy at 96% according to COVID ni dashboard.
I see your logic there you've taken the 160 by admissions, if you look at note 3 it says that it includes people who have been admitted for other reasons but subsequently tested positive for Covid.

if you look at the heading for general bed capacity it gives a better breakdown, 116 Covid occupied beds 2636 other, 83 awaiting admission = 2835 which is 96% of the 2961 available. so in percentage terms Covid is taking 5% of beds in hospitals at the minute. even if it was the 160, its between 5-6% of beds. Again im not saying this isnt an issue, but when you look at the numbers completely bombing on a week by week basis and the vaccine roll out to the vulnerable being so good I think the hard questions need asked of the executive. they say these are hard decisions, well actually its the opposite, its easy to keep the status quo and keeping going along. the hard thing would be to put the work in to make things open up in a safe way to allow people who are really struggling to get a lifeline back

Yeah I would fully agree with you. I still would love to see what is teh data driving the decisions but Swann (who I don't mind generally to be fair) won't tell us it.. We aren't getting to zero covid and it's not going to get a whole lot better than this. Unless what they are doing is for example giving the schools time to bed in and then if that is ok then going on ahead with other things. The problem with those kind of things becomes that it would take ~2 weeks, or more, to determine that everything is ok so do you only take baby steps and if so then how long would it realistically take to open up? I don't want everything opened but cafes, gyms and hairdressers - smaller things like that - should be opened IMO. Anything I have seen and heard from most of these they have been very careful. Anyone not being careful should just be shut down on a case by case basis.

(Interesting point on your note 3. I guess that is why they are revisited retrospectively. I hadn't looked at the general bed occupancy and just the main dashboard.)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 22, 2021, 04:02:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 22, 2021, 02:53:08 PM
Anyone not being careful should just be shut down on a case by case basis.

This would be wise, but they need to hire a rake of inspectors and they do not do this. After opening any hairdresser or cafe needs to know that someone will arrive within a few days and that they'll be back closed if anything is out of place. Other measures might be mandated, like CO2 monitors to check ventilation etc. Some of these may be needed for quite a while so why not get them in place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 22, 2021, 04:32:10 PM
Yeah that would be my thinking on it too. There are small businesses who have tried very hard on this who deserve to be given every chance l the Tesco's and the like should probably be held to some kind of standard which currently seems to be throw out some hand sanitiser, separate entrance and exit and that's about it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 22, 2021, 04:41:59 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 22, 2021, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 22, 2021, 12:55:22 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 22, 2021, 12:04:49 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 22, 2021, 11:44:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 06:03:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 19, 2021, 02:20:34 PM
I can see an anti lockdown protest being hijacked by an anti irish seaborder element and what other eejits feel the need to get involved. They are happening regularly enough down South - it's probably only a matter of time before one comes our way.
How could an anti-lockdown demo be "hijacked" by eejits when such demos are by definition eejitry?
So anyone that has had enough of lockdown is an eejit now? Good man.

Huge difference between someone having enough of lockdowns and someone out protesting about lockdowns.

Normally I would agree, but unfortunately this working from home / furlough seems to be having an effect on people's minds negatively.

I know normal minded people about a year ago now full on conspiracy theorists, they have obviously picked it up sitting at home bored or gotten so frustrated they believe it now.

Fella I would have considered straight down the middle, happy go lucky. Now he's off to these marches all over Ireland and it's being paid for by Her Majesty claiming a great reset and the like.

Absolutely, plenty of people way way down that rabbit hole
I'd say much less than 1% of the population have attended these ludicrous demonstrations and I personally don't know anybody who has any truck with them whatsoever

I think the amount of people who are into this stuff is well overplayed because they are generally extremely vocal on social media - and the traditional media love to give them a bigger platform than they merit because covering them generates clicks, sales and ratings
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2021, 07:41:50 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 22, 2021, 12:55:22 PM
I know normal minded people about a year ago now full on conspiracy theorists, they have obviously picked it up sitting at home bored or gotten so frustrated they believe it now.

Yes... 'cos thats what governments do.

They sit in their ivory towers, stroking their white cats - plotting with No.1 on ways they can completely f**k up their economies, wipe tens, if not hundreds of thousands off their own savings/investments and make themselves infamous in history.

That's exactly what governments do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 23, 2021, 09:45:59 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2021, 07:41:50 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 22, 2021, 12:55:22 PM
I know normal minded people about a year ago now full on conspiracy theorists, they have obviously picked it up sitting at home bored or gotten so frustrated they believe it now.

Yes... 'cos thats what governments do.

They sit in their ivory towers, stroking their white cats - plotting with No.1 on ways they can completely f**k up their economies, wipe tens, if not hundreds of thousands off their own savings/investments and make themselves infamous in history.

That's exactly what governments do.

You are replying like in some way its my view.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 23, 2021, 02:00:02 PM
Conspiracy theorists are parodied as nutjobs and it's fair enough in certain circumstance in relation to Covid - there's some batshit crazy stuff out there - but I've been staggered at the vast majority of posters here who refuse to countenance any criticism or contention of the official line or strategy.

There are a whole host of people here completely deferential to the "experts". If they say it is so then it must be. However ridiculous it was. Are all you guys still believing that we managed to wipe out winter flu this? No reported cases at all. Are you guys telling me that you actually believe that? There's countless examples of this. The whole thing about schools, kids and transmission - the messaging simply does not stack up with the data and the actions taken.

For me this pandemic has shown how stupid seemingly well educated men and women are. They are every bit as certified crazy as some of the conspiracy theorists in my view, they swallow every horseshit excuse and rationale that the "experts" roll out - no critical thoughts dare be aired, on probing questions dare be asked - if they said it's true then it must be true.

The way people have bought the variant transmissibility horseshit thrown out by the groupings (government and their medical advisory bodies) who are vested within keeping the virus under control. These groupings fucked up over Christmas, they made mistakes that allowed the virus to accelerate but hey ho rather than let the focus be on that why not blame it on variants?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on March 23, 2021, 02:36:55 PM
See that old ground over there - let's all go over it again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2021, 03:46:40 PM
Quote from: Louther on March 23, 2021, 02:36:55 PM
See that old ground over there - let's all go over it again.

But did they actually walk on the moon? Can you get covid on the moon and if so did they have any problems during the flu season of 2018?

Answers on a post stamp
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 23, 2021, 04:47:09 PM
The number of provisional deaths registered in England and Wales in the week ending 12 March 2021 is lower than the 5 year average for week 10.

https://twitter.com/Coronavirusgoo1/status/1374296236778528768?s=19
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2021, 05:47:03 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 23, 2021, 04:47:09 PM
The number of provisional deaths registered in England and Wales in the week ending 12 March 2021 is lower than the 5 year average for week 10.

https://twitter.com/Coronavirusgoo1/status/1374296236778528768?s=19

Why do you think that is?

Less spread of flu due to lockdown better sanitation masks  or just government led conspiracy?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2021, 08:54:24 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 23, 2021, 09:45:59 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2021, 07:41:50 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 22, 2021, 12:55:22 PM
I know normal minded people about a year ago now full on conspiracy theorists, they have obviously picked it up sitting at home bored or gotten so frustrated they believe it now.

Yes... 'cos thats what governments do.

They sit in their ivory towers, stroking their white cats - plotting with No.1 on ways they can completely f**k up their economies, wipe tens, if not hundreds of thousands off their own savings/investments and make themselves infamous in history.

That's exactly what governments do.

You are replying like in some way its my view.

Yes... it certainly hasn't been your view  (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1957674#msg1957674)for the past 12 months or so. [/sarcasm]

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 24, 2021, 09:26:17 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2021, 08:54:24 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 23, 2021, 09:45:59 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2021, 07:41:50 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 22, 2021, 12:55:22 PM
I know normal minded people about a year ago now full on conspiracy theorists, they have obviously picked it up sitting at home bored or gotten so frustrated they believe it now.

Yes... 'cos thats what governments do.

They sit in their ivory towers, stroking their white cats - plotting with No.1 on ways they can completely f**k up their economies, wipe tens, if not hundreds of thousands off their own savings/investments and make themselves infamous in history.

That's exactly what governments do.

You are replying like in some way its my view.

Yes... it certainly hasn't been your view  (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1957674#msg1957674)for the past 12 months or so. [/sarcasm]

Did they ever close the airports or the ports in the end?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2021, 10:03:22 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 24, 2021, 09:26:17 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2021, 08:54:24 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 23, 2021, 09:45:59 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2021, 07:41:50 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 22, 2021, 12:55:22 PM
I know normal minded people about a year ago now full on conspiracy theorists, they have obviously picked it up sitting at home bored or gotten so frustrated they believe it now.

Yes... 'cos thats what governments do.

They sit in their ivory towers, stroking their white cats - plotting with No.1 on ways they can completely f**k up their economies, wipe tens, if not hundreds of thousands off their own savings/investments and make themselves infamous in history.

That's exactly what governments do.

You are replying like in some way its my view.

Yes... it certainly hasn't been your view  (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29555.msg1957674#msg1957674)for the past 12 months or so. [/sarcasm]

Did they ever close the airports or the ports in the end?

On reflection they should have, and I was very sceptical at the start that this would have been lunacy but other countries have seen the benefits of it and reaping the rewards
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 24, 2021, 10:11:27 AM
(hindsight is a wonderful thing) Without doing this we didn't really stand a chance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 24, 2021, 10:19:02 AM
Of course they should have, if we knew then what we know now. I wonder when the next pandemic breaks out.....hopefully not in my lifetime obviously, would that be something that is a straight away reaction by countries. It would make sense learning the lessons from Covid 19 surely.

But people were under the illusion that we could have adapted the NZ / Australia model. It's impossible with Europe an hour away and the UK 20 mins on a plane and still to this day to stop travel, infact, it's airlines themselves that was the major driver in the prevention of travel.

The legal and political implications for Ireland/Northern Ireland means that closing our borders was never going to happen - unfortunately that's been to our cost. It should be as easy as pulling the plug but this place that backward and that contrary it was never even on the menu, let alone table. But again, with the UK being across the way and mainland Europe. which were both messes at the very start, how successful would it have been really - did you ever see the actual list of exemptions for people that don't have to quarantine for example? IT workers, Health workers etc. Its mad.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2021, 10:29:14 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 24, 2021, 10:19:02 AM
Of course they should have, if we knew then what we know now. I wonder when the next pandemic breaks out.....hopefully not in my lifetime obviously, would that be something that is a straight away reaction by countries. It would make sense learning the lessons from Covid 19 surely.

But people were under the illusion that we could have adapted the NZ / Australia model. It's impossible with Europe an hour away and the UK 20 mins on a plane and still to this day to stop travel, infact, it's airlines themselves that was the major driver in the prevention of travel.

The legal and political implications for Ireland/Northern Ireland means that closing our borders was never going to happen - unfortunately that's been to our cost. It should be as easy as pulling the plug but this place that backward and that contrary it was never even on the menu, let alone table. But again, with the UK being across the way and mainland Europe. which were both messes at the very start, how successful would it have been really - did you ever see the actual list of exemptions for people that don't have to quarantine for example? IT workers, Health workers etc. Its mad.

Its an Island and going forward that is the best thing to do, the only use of flights and ports would be to bring in produce. Nip it in the bud at the start, that has to be an all island approach and anyone set against that is committing economic suicide
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 24, 2021, 10:40:29 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 24, 2021, 10:19:02 AM
Of course they should have, if we knew then what we know now. I wonder when the next pandemic breaks out.....hopefully not in my lifetime obviously, would that be something that is a straight away reaction by countries. It would make sense learning the lessons from Covid 19 surely.

But people were under the illusion that we could have adapted the NZ / Australia model. It's impossible with Europe an hour away and the UK 20 mins on a plane and still to this day to stop travel, infact, it's airlines themselves that was the major driver in the prevention of travel.

The legal and political implications for Ireland/Northern Ireland means that closing our borders was never going to happen - unfortunately that's been to our cost. It should be as easy as pulling the plug but this place that backward and that contrary it was never even on the menu, let alone table. But again, with the UK being across the way and mainland Europe. which were both messes at the very start, how successful would it have been really - did you ever see the actual list of exemptions for people that don't have to quarantine for example? IT workers, Health workers etc. Its mad.
I don't get this whole argument of the UK only being so far away and Europe being close. If you shut the borders what does it matter how far away the UK is? Not as though they're swimming across?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 24, 2021, 10:46:45 AM
We had four cases of Covid on July 1st

What we know now, we also knew last summer, or had the ability to know

We just chose to let Covid back in rather than crush it

Varadkar was again denigrating Zero Covid as an extremist idea last evening

This is a concerted gaslighting campaign - what we've been doing since last summer has been the real extremism

Fintan O'Toole had a line in his article yesterday where he compared the Zero Covid countries to a fox who knew a lot of small things, while we were a hedgehog who knew one big thing

But I didn't think that was a well taken line at all

The Zero Covid countries were in fact foxes who knew one big thing - and the one big thing was everything - everything else they knew flowed from that one big thing

We know or claim to know so many small things now that we're totally confused - but we refused to learn the one big thing

So we're stuck furiously debating utterly pointless nonsense like the difference between 5km and 10km limits for exercise

They don't have these debates in New Zealand or Australia, they're too busy going to music festivals
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 24, 2021, 10:50:53 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 24, 2021, 10:40:29 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 24, 2021, 10:19:02 AM
Of course they should have, if we knew then what we know now. I wonder when the next pandemic breaks out.....hopefully not in my lifetime obviously, would that be something that is a straight away reaction by countries. It would make sense learning the lessons from Covid 19 surely.

But people were under the illusion that we could have adapted the NZ / Australia model. It's impossible with Europe an hour away and the UK 20 mins on a plane and still to this day to stop travel, infact, it's airlines themselves that was the major driver in the prevention of travel.

The legal and political implications for Ireland/Northern Ireland means that closing our borders was never going to happen - unfortunately that's been to our cost. It should be as easy as pulling the plug but this place that backward and that contrary it was never even on the menu, let alone table. But again, with the UK being across the way and mainland Europe. which were both messes at the very start, how successful would it have been really - did you ever see the actual list of exemptions for people that don't have to quarantine for example? IT workers, Health workers etc. Its mad.
I don't get this whole argument of the UK only being so far away and Europe being close. If you shut the borders what does it matter how far away the UK is? Not as though they're swimming across?

Essential/Key workers can travel to and from, with no quarantine restrictions (depending on your role) at present, i.e. Health Care, IT, Legal...there is a load of them. Northern Ireland is obviously the weakness.

The argument re: closing borders is, closing it to everyone off the island of Ireland full stop.  You can't do that when Northern Ireland for all intents and purposes is Governed by the United Kingdom - not as if Dublin is going to take on the financial cost at the minute so we are basically in the shit.

Normal people like us think, who cares. Close the country down. It's that simple and it should be that simple. The reality was politically it was never, ever going to happen when the biggest party in NI would rather see Covid run rampant than acknowledge the kryptonite to their very being....Ireland is one lump of land. And look that's just one example, that's not to beat the DUP with a stick, not like any of them are reading this but the Northern Ireland situation has really been shown for what it is now. It's always been a long term sticky plaster.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 24, 2021, 11:11:41 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-somebody-mcsomebody-is-spreading-covid-in-ireland-1.4517066Fintan O'Toole: Somebody McSomebody is spreading Covid in Ireland

We have chosen not to properly track the virus. The result is endless lockdown
Tue, Mar 23, 2021, 01:05


Who is most responsible for spreading Covid-19 in Ireland? Somebody McSomebody.

Among the acts of genius in Anna Burns's great novel Milkman is the way the narrator names people without naming them. One nasty character is called Somebody McSomebody. As it happens, the same reprobate is the villain of our Covid story. He/she/they is to blame for the stubbornly high levels of transmission of the coronavirus.

In the medico-political discourse that dominates our lives, Somebody McSomebody goes by an alias: community transmission. The term is defined by the Cambridge Dictionary as "the process of infectious illness spreading through a large group of people in a general way so that the source of the infection in a particular case is not known".

As Prof Anthony Staines put it in The Irish Times last week, community transmission, or "community spread" as Nphet likes to call it, is "no more than a socially acceptable version of 'We have no idea where this infection came from'. "

We don't know because we don't ask. We don't ask because we have not, more than a year into the pandemic in Ireland, built a system of contact tracing that is remotely capable of figuring out how, when and where a chain of infection got going.

Consider two pieces of official advice to us, the general public. The HSE explains: "The incubation period for Covid-19 is on average five to six days, however, it can be up to 14 days. It is now known that during the incubation period, those infected can spread the virus to other people." The HSE also explains: "If you test positive and have symptoms, the contact tracer will ask about people and places you have visited 48 hours before your symptoms started and until you started self-isolating."

Fintan O'Toole: The Covid-19 pandemic should be the last hurrah for Irish stoicism
Fintan O'Toole: anti-lockdown sentiment given undeserved credibility by political failings
Fintan O'Toole: Why no laptops for schoolchildren?
So: you may have been spreading the virus for 14 days, but we're going to ask you about the two days before you became symptomatic. You don't have to be an epidemiologist to see the problem here. We have a time machine but it doesn't travel back far enough to see where any outbreak started.

Why? Because that's the way we've built it. In October, as the second wave was really hitting us, a total of 300 people were working as contact tracers. Everybody knew this was grossly inadequate.

DIY tracing
By October 22nd, by which time there were 500 tracers, the system was in meltdown. That weekend, people who tested positive got text messages from the HSE asking them to forward the message to their own contacts and urge them to arrange a test – DIY tracing. Minister for Health Stephen Donnelly said, "This was a one-off situation where demand outstripped supply and a one-off operational decision was made to reset the system."

It wasn't a one-off situation. At the end of December the system was so overwhelmed that the basic protocols for tracing had to be dumped. The agreed procedure had three stages. First, if you tested positive, you got a call from a medical professional. Then you got a call from a tracer. Then the tracer followed up with your close contacts. To avoid the complete collapse of the system, this was telescoped into a single call from a tracer, who then texted the contacts to urge them to isolate.

So we know that the tracing system has come close to implosion twice in the past six months. It now has 873 staff – a significant improvement, but not remotely enough to trace infections back to their origins in Ireland.

We've chosen to stick to the known unknown. But the problem is that this absence of evidence is claimed all the time as evidence of absence.

Whenever it suits its purpose, any given group can claim that what we don't know is actually a form of proof. Look, they say, there is hardly any evidence of transmission through schools, or pubs, or restaurants, or church services, or international travel, or construction sites, or whatever.

Of course there bloody well isn't. We just don't do that kind of tracing. Beyond the mates or family members you met in the past 48 hours, there's just Somebody McSomebody who got Covid from Somebody McSomebodyelse.

No point
What the people in charge will say is that there is no point in doing this deep tracing because it would simply overwhelm the system. This is entirely true, but it's also self-fulfilling. We never had the will or the urgency to build a system that would not be sunk if it pulled too hard at the hidden roots of infection.

This matters because the countries that have managed this pandemic best are the ones that have used contact tracing to do what we don't: hunt the virus down to the clusters that are spreading it and move in ruthlessly to suppress it. This allows most ordinary life to go on without lockdowns. It's the difference between playing whack-a-mole and shutting down the whole funfair.

Or, to use the famous analogy, between the fox who knows many small things and the hedgehog who knows one big thing. We chose to know one big thing – lockdown – and not to know the many small things that make up the Irish pandemic. As a result, we're stuck in hedgehog mode, curled up and bristling.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2021, 12:54:26 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 24, 2021, 10:50:53 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 24, 2021, 10:40:29 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 24, 2021, 10:19:02 AM
Of course they should have, if we knew then what we know now. I wonder when the next pandemic breaks out.....hopefully not in my lifetime obviously, would that be something that is a straight away reaction by countries. It would make sense learning the lessons from Covid 19 surely.

But people were under the illusion that we could have adapted the NZ / Australia model. It's impossible with Europe an hour away and the UK 20 mins on a plane and still to this day to stop travel, infact, it's airlines themselves that was the major driver in the prevention of travel.

The legal and political implications for Ireland/Northern Ireland means that closing our borders was never going to happen - unfortunately that's been to our cost. It should be as easy as pulling the plug but this place that backward and that contrary it was never even on the menu, let alone table. But again, with the UK being across the way and mainland Europe. which were both messes at the very start, how successful would it have been really - did you ever see the actual list of exemptions for people that don't have to quarantine for example? IT workers, Health workers etc. Its mad.
I don't get this whole argument of the UK only being so far away and Europe being close. If you shut the borders what does it matter how far away the UK is? Not as though they're swimming across?

Essential/Key workers can travel to and from, with no quarantine restrictions (depending on your role) at present, i.e. Health Care, IT, Legal...there is a load of them. Northern Ireland is obviously the weakness.

The argument re: closing borders is, closing it to everyone off the island of Ireland full stop.  You can't do that when Northern Ireland for all intents and purposes is Governed by the United Kingdom - not as if Dublin is going to take on the financial cost at the minute so we are basically in the shit.

Normal people like us think, who cares. Close the country down. It's that simple and it should be that simple. The reality was politically it was never, ever going to happen when the biggest party in NI would rather see Covid run rampant than acknowledge the kryptonite to their very being....Ireland is one lump of land. And look that's just one example, that's not to beat the DUP with a stick, not like any of them are reading this but the Northern Ireland situation has really been shown for what it is now. It's always been a long term sticky plaster.

Whether its ever going to happen or not, its the logical thing to do, as we are what we are that wont happen
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 24, 2021, 01:29:17 PM
I hope this thread is archived and logged because some of you guys are going to lack back at your former selves and realise what a pillock you were.

South Africa is another good example.

23k daily cases now down to 1k daily cases.

That's the result of a lockdown, right?

WRONG. South Africa had not lockdown and it has the experts perplexed.

Lockdowns do not work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on March 24, 2021, 02:15:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 24, 2021, 01:29:17 PM
I hope this thread is archived and logged because some of you guys are going to lack back at your former selves and realise what a pillock you were.

South Africa is another good example.

23k daily cases now down to 1k daily cases.

That's the result of a lockdown, right?

WRONG. South Africa had not lockdown and it has the experts perplexed.

Lockdowns do not work.

So SA done nothing? Why do you lie so when it can be easily checked.

SA had a state for emergency from December through to start of March. They've been at their level 3 in all that time and lifted it for March to go back to level 1 when their cases had fallen. Their level 3 covers much same as outs but goes further in having 9pm curfews unless for essential reason. You couldn't buy alcohol at level 3. Lots of varying levels of restrictions and rules.

Reading your post above you think they just say on their hands!

Plus they required help from Cuba who flew medical teams in as all hospitals over run and they've a death rate of over 3%.

What do you define as lockdown? As I'm struggling to see anywhere that hasn't some form of lockdown or restrictions unless you look to Australia or NZ.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 24, 2021, 02:24:21 PM
Quote from: Louther on March 24, 2021, 02:15:10 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 24, 2021, 01:29:17 PM
I hope this thread is archived and logged because some of you guys are going to lack back at your former selves and realise what a pillock you were.

South Africa is another good example.

23k daily cases now down to 1k daily cases.

That's the result of a lockdown, right?

WRONG. South Africa had not lockdown and it has the experts perplexed.

Lockdowns do not work.

So SA done nothing? Why do you lie so when it can be easily checked.

SA had a state for emergency from December through to start of March. They've been at their level 3 in all that time and lifted it for March to go back to level 1 when their cases had fallen. Their level 3 covers much same as outs but goes further in having 9pm curfews unless for essential reason. You couldn't buy alcohol at level 3. Lots of varying levels of restrictions and rules.

Reading your post above you think they just say on their hands!

Plus they required help from Cuba who flew medical teams in as all hospitals over run and they've a death rate of over 3%.

What do you define as lockdown? As I'm struggling to see anywhere that hasn't some form of lockdown or restrictions unless you look to Australia or NZ.

If you could stick to the facts rather than putting words in my mouth that would appreciated


South Africa did not have a lockdown. Their case numbers fell dramatically without severe restrictions.

This of course flies in the face of you and other lockdown zealots.

Sweden have not had a lockdown and comparatively have fared much the same as countries across Europe who have endured severe and draconian lockdowns.

We can put you back in the slow learners class when this is all over. I really hope this thread is preserved and we can remind us of the lads who like to deferentially take their orders from "experts" without engaging their brain.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on March 24, 2021, 02:33:00 PM
You've been fishing for bites the last few days and sorry I bit but what you said is totally wrong and factually incorrect.

You've been destroyed yet again by posting lies and avoiding the truth.

When all this is done you should look for a job with some of the scummy tabloid papers who peddle the kind of narrative you thrive on.

You must have a shocking lonely existence when you have to rely on this board to feel important.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 24, 2021, 02:59:07 PM
Quote from: Louther on March 24, 2021, 02:33:00 PM
You've been fishing for bites the last few days and sorry I bit but what you said is totally wrong and factually incorrect.

You've been destroyed yet again by posting lies and avoiding the truth.

When all this is done you should look for a job with some of the scummy tabloid papers who peddle the kind of narrative you thrive on.

You must have a shocking lonely existence when you have to rely on this board to feel important.

I'm not looking for bites. I'm pointing out the idiocy of posters who here who don't seem to engage their brain on whatever "experts" say.

The latest one down south is that Covid isn't being spread in schools, it's being spread through play dates and of course the idiots swallow this on without questioning the logic or data behind it.

You seem to want to try and argue something I haven't said as you don't have any coherent argument on how countries who have not imposed draconian lockdowns have not fared any worse than countries who have.

Lockdowns do not work, that is established but maybe you want the right messenger to tell you that, one who you feel such deference to that you will not question him (or her).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on March 24, 2021, 03:01:51 PM
What is your defination of lockdown? Cause we aren't in one judging by what SA done which you say wasn't a lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on March 24, 2021, 05:02:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 24, 2021, 02:59:07 PM
Lockdowns do not work, that is established...

Quote from: Angelo on March 24, 2021, 02:24:21 PM
Sweden have not had a lockdown and comparatively have fared much the same as countries across Europe who have endured severe and draconian lockdowns.
Bullshit!

When you compare the Covid Mortality Rate per 100k of Population, you'll see that Sweden has fared far worse than its Nordic Neighbours, with whom it is best comparable:

Iceland - 8.20
Norway - 12.21
Finland - 14.64
Denmark - 41.47
Sweden - 130.75
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

Of course Iceland had it somewhat easier for being an island, whilst Denmark had it harder being connected by land to mainland Europe.
Nonetheless, having a mortality rate 9 x times that of Finland to the east and 11 x times that of Norway to the west, both of which imposed lockdowns, tells a clear and unambiguous story.


Not only that, but Sweden didn't even escape the blow to its economy that lockdown causes - in fact it came off worse than its neighbours who did lockdown:

Sweden's GDP fell 8.6% during the second quarter of the year, according to its statistics body.
The fall is sharper than its neighbors — Denmark registered a 7.4% fall, and Finland a 3.2% fall. Statistics suggest Norway also fared better than Sweden.
Sweden decided not to pursue a nationwide lockdown, unlike most European nation. The statistics show this did not help its economy.
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-sweden-gdp-falls-8pc-in-q2-worse-nordic-neighbors-2020-8?op=1&r=US&IR=T (https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-sweden-gdp-falls-8pc-in-q2-worse-nordic-neighbors-2020-8?op=1&r=US&IR=T)
[August 2020 is the most recent, easily laid-out figures I can find, but I believe the trend continued throughout the year]



Further, I say "formal" lockdown, since it is misleading to consider that Sweden didn't institute any restrictions. For example, some lower age schools were closed and gatherings over a certain number were prohibited. There were many other recommendations re. social distancing and mask-wearing issued, whilst many people/organisations/companies observed voluntary restrictions. This latter was evidenced eg by a significant fall in public transport tickets bought and a fall in credit card transactions.

Yet despite this, as the failure of their inital "herd immunity" strategy became ever more evident (undeniable), the country was forced to admit this and issue further restrictions, eg:

Nov.2020 -
No-lockdown Sweden toughens up restrictions as coronavirus cases rise:
Sweden appears to be changing tack and implementing stricter measures as a second wave of infections takes hold and hospitalizations rise.
On Monday, it announced that public gatherings of more than eight people were no longer allowed.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/17/sweden-toughens-up-coronavirus-rules-as-infections-and-deaths-rise.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/17/sweden-toughens-up-coronavirus-rules-as-infections-and-deaths-rise.html)

Dec.2020 -
Sweden's king has said his country "failed" to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus pandemic.
Sweden, which has never imposed a full lockdown, has seen nearly 350,000 cases and more than 7,800 deaths - a lot more than its Scandinavian neighbours.
Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said he agreed with the king's remarks.
"Of course the fact that so many have died can't be considered as anything other than a failure," Mr Lofven told reporters.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55347021 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55347021)

Jan.2021 -
What you can be fined for under Sweden's [latest] pandemic law:
Sweden's new pandemic law gives the government power to introduce extra measures to curb the spread of the coronavirus, and if you break these, you could face fines or other legal sanctions.

As of January 19th, the measures introduced under the law mostly applied to businesses rather than individuals. For example, shops, gyms and sports facilities are limited to a maximum of one person per ten square metres of usable space (not shelves or cash registers), and these limits must be stated in risk assessments and advertised on signs at every entrance, and stated in mandatory risk assessments.
https://www.thelocal.se/20210119/what-can-you-be-fined-for-and-for-how-much-under-swedens-pandemic-law/ (https://www.thelocal.se/20210119/what-can-you-be-fined-for-and-for-how-much-under-swedens-pandemic-law/)

Feb.2021 -
New closing time: Sweden's rolls out more coronavirus rules for restaurants

From Monday, all restaurants and cafés in Sweden will have to close at 8.30pm under rules that will shortly be put forward by the Public Health Agency.
The regulation will apply regardless of whether or not the venues serve alcohol. Sweden has previously banned bars and restaurants from serving alcohol after 8pm, but due to a loophole in the law they have been able to remain open much longer in the evening. They would now have to shut their doors completely at 8.30pm.
https://www.thelocal.se/20210224/swedish-prime-minister-calls-press-conference-new-coronavirus-measures/ (https://www.thelocal.se/20210224/swedish-prime-minister-calls-press-conference-new-coronavirus-measures/)


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2021, 05:05:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 24, 2021, 01:29:17 PM
I hope this thread is archived and logged because some of you guys are going to lack back at your former selves and realise what a pillock you were.

South Africa is another good example.

23k daily cases now down to 1k daily cases.

That's the result of a lockdown, right?

WRONG. South Africa had not lockdown and it has the experts perplexed.

Lockdowns do not work.

My neighbour and friend is from South Africa, his father has passed away and he has not been able to get home for over a year because of covid restrictions and lockdowns, you are a f**king pillock.

He said the place is coming down with covid, the same covid which killed his dad and the rest of his family suffered with the covid related health problems.

The problem you have is you are full of shit, you read a stat somewhere and take it as fact.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 24, 2021, 10:49:35 PM
Retards will be retards.


They even go full retard from time to time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 07:43:24 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

He's just proved to be a WUM, even entered the golf thread and was caught out also

But I expect he'll dust it down and come back with more shite, when all you've got is four walls and a computer there's not much else to do
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 09:10:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 07:43:24 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

He's just proved to be a WUM, even entered the golf thread and was caught out also

But I expect he'll dust it down and come back with more shite, when all you've got is four walls and a computer there's not much else to do

He's been at it from January last year, there's days I come to this page and wonder who he has on the reel 😂
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 09:29:26 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 24, 2021, 05:02:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 24, 2021, 02:59:07 PM
Lockdowns do not work, that is established...

Quote from: Angelo on March 24, 2021, 02:24:21 PM
Sweden have not had a lockdown and comparatively have fared much the same as countries across Europe who have endured severe and draconian lockdowns.
Bullshit!

When you compare the Covid Mortality Rate per 100k of Population, you'll see that Sweden has fared far worse than its Nordic Neighbours, with whom it is best comparable:

Iceland - 8.20
Norway - 12.21
Finland - 14.64
Denmark - 41.47
Sweden - 130.75
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

Of course Iceland had it somewhat easier for being an island, whilst Denmark had it harder being connected by land to mainland Europe.
Nonetheless, having a mortality rate 9 x times that of Finland to the east and 11 x times that of Norway to the west, both of which imposed lockdowns, tells a clear and unambiguous story.


Not only that, but Sweden didn't even escape the blow to its economy that lockdown causes - in fact it came off worse than its neighbours who did lockdown:

Sweden's GDP fell 8.6% during the second quarter of the year, according to its statistics body.
The fall is sharper than its neighbors — Denmark registered a 7.4% fall, and Finland a 3.2% fall. Statistics suggest Norway also fared better than Sweden.
Sweden decided not to pursue a nationwide lockdown, unlike most European nation. The statistics show this did not help its economy.
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-sweden-gdp-falls-8pc-in-q2-worse-nordic-neighbors-2020-8?op=1&r=US&IR=T (https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-sweden-gdp-falls-8pc-in-q2-worse-nordic-neighbors-2020-8?op=1&r=US&IR=T)
[August 2020 is the most recent, easily laid-out figures I can find, but I believe the trend continued throughout the year]



Further, I say "formal" lockdown, since it is misleading to consider that Sweden didn't institute any restrictions. For example, some lower age schools were closed and gatherings over a certain number were prohibited. There were many other recommendations re. social distancing and mask-wearing issued, whilst many people/organisations/companies observed voluntary restrictions. This latter was evidenced eg by a significant fall in public transport tickets bought and a fall in credit card transactions.

Yet despite this, as the failure of their inital "herd immunity" strategy became ever more evident (undeniable), the country was forced to admit this and issue further restrictions, eg:

Nov.2020 -
No-lockdown Sweden toughens up restrictions as coronavirus cases rise:
Sweden appears to be changing tack and implementing stricter measures as a second wave of infections takes hold and hospitalizations rise.
On Monday, it announced that public gatherings of more than eight people were no longer allowed.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/17/sweden-toughens-up-coronavirus-rules-as-infections-and-deaths-rise.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/17/sweden-toughens-up-coronavirus-rules-as-infections-and-deaths-rise.html)

Dec.2020 -
Sweden's king has said his country "failed" to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus pandemic.
Sweden, which has never imposed a full lockdown, has seen nearly 350,000 cases and more than 7,800 deaths - a lot more than its Scandinavian neighbours.
Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said he agreed with the king's remarks.
"Of course the fact that so many have died can't be considered as anything other than a failure," Mr Lofven told reporters.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55347021 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55347021)

Jan.2021 -
What you can be fined for under Sweden's [latest] pandemic law:
Sweden's new pandemic law gives the government power to introduce extra measures to curb the spread of the coronavirus, and if you break these, you could face fines or other legal sanctions.

As of January 19th, the measures introduced under the law mostly applied to businesses rather than individuals. For example, shops, gyms and sports facilities are limited to a maximum of one person per ten square metres of usable space (not shelves or cash registers), and these limits must be stated in risk assessments and advertised on signs at every entrance, and stated in mandatory risk assessments.
https://www.thelocal.se/20210119/what-can-you-be-fined-for-and-for-how-much-under-swedens-pandemic-law/ (https://www.thelocal.se/20210119/what-can-you-be-fined-for-and-for-how-much-under-swedens-pandemic-law/)

Feb.2021 -
New closing time: Sweden's rolls out more coronavirus rules for restaurants

From Monday, all restaurants and cafés in Sweden will have to close at 8.30pm under rules that will shortly be put forward by the Public Health Agency.
The regulation will apply regardless of whether or not the venues serve alcohol. Sweden has previously banned bars and restaurants from serving alcohol after 8pm, but due to a loophole in the law they have been able to remain open much longer in the evening. They would now have to shut their doors completely at 8.30pm.
https://www.thelocal.se/20210224/swedish-prime-minister-calls-press-conference-new-coronavirus-measures/ (https://www.thelocal.se/20210224/swedish-prime-minister-calls-press-conference-new-coronavirus-measures/)

So we're only allowed compare Sweden with 4 other European countries.

Seem like an utterly ridiculous logic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 09:32:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 07:43:24 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

He's just proved to be a WUM, even entered the golf thread and was caught out also

But I expect he'll dust it down and come back with more shite, when all you've got is four walls and a computer there's not much else to do
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

Tweedledumb and Tweedledee have been two of the archetypal deferential types who do not seem to have the intelligence to question anything from an "expert". The term nodding donkeys comes to mind.

Tell me this, do both of you geniuses believe we eliminated winter flu this winter season?

Do both of you geniuses actually believe lockdowns have been successful?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 09:52:11 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 09:32:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 07:43:24 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

He's just proved to be a WUM, even entered the golf thread and was caught out also

But I expect he'll dust it down and come back with more shite, when all you've got is four walls and a computer there's not much else to do
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

Tweedledumb and Tweedledee have been two of the archetypal deferential types who do not seem to have the intelligence to question anything from an "expert". The term nodding donkeys comes to mind.

Tell me this, do both of you geniuses believe we eliminated winter flu this winter season?

Do both of you geniuses actually believe lockdowns have been successful?

I was the first case of Winter Flu this year felt a bit low all weekend there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:07:09 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 09:32:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 07:43:24 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

He's just proved to be a WUM, even entered the golf thread and was caught out also

But I expect he'll dust it down and come back with more shite, when all you've got is four walls and a computer there's not much else to do
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

Tweedledumb and Tweedledee have been two of the archetypal deferential types who do not seem to have the intelligence to question anything from an "expert". The term nodding donkeys comes to mind.

Tell me this, do both of you geniuses believe we eliminated winter flu this winter season?

Do both of you geniuses actually believe lockdowns have been successful?

No, they haven't been done right at all, they were half arsed and we failed with track and trace also. I can't answer for someone else though.

Winter flu has been a success this year, we should follow some of these procedures every year and that will stop people dying from the flu. Using the measures we have been using has stopped the movement of the flu, people bringing the flu in has been reduced also. If you can't see that as a factor then you are dumber than I thought, and that's a low bar.

Do you feel that the lockdowns have not saved more lives had we just let her rip?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 10:12:11 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 09:32:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 07:43:24 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

He's just proved to be a WUM, even entered the golf thread and was caught out also

But I expect he'll dust it down and come back with more shite, when all you've got is four walls and a computer there's not much else to do
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

Tweedledumb and Tweedledee have been two of the archetypal deferential types who do not seem to have the intelligence to question anything from an "expert". The term nodding donkeys comes to mind.

Tell me this, do both of you geniuses believe we eliminated winter flu this winter season?

Do both of you geniuses actually believe lockdowns have been successful?

You only need to look at the numbers to see that the current lockdown was both needed and has helped saved many lives. Deaths have gone from 25% above average at the start of the year to around normal in recent weeks, hospital numbers have dropped 90% and case numbers by something similar. This will hopefully have bought time for the vaccine to kick in leading to much less loss of life going forward.

We would be in an awful place now if we'd left everything opened in January and many hundreds more would have died with both covid and the effects of the health service being overwhelmed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:07:09 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 09:32:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 07:43:24 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

He's just proved to be a WUM, even entered the golf thread and was caught out also

But I expect he'll dust it down and come back with more shite, when all you've got is four walls and a computer there's not much else to do
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

Tweedledumb and Tweedledee have been two of the archetypal deferential types who do not seem to have the intelligence to question anything from an "expert". The term nodding donkeys comes to mind.

Tell me this, do both of you geniuses believe we eliminated winter flu this winter season?

Do both of you geniuses actually believe lockdowns have been successful?

No, they haven't been done right at all, they were half arsed and we failed with track and trace also. I can't answer for someone else though.

Winter flu has been a success this year, we should follow some of these procedures every year and that will stop people dying from the flu. Using the measures we have been using has stopped the movement of the flu, people bringing the flu in has been reduced also. If you can't see that as a factor then you are dumber than I thought, and that's a low bar.

Do you feel that the lockdowns have not saved more lives had we just let her rip?

Who is advocating let her rip? Not me anyway so if you want to have that argument you better have it with someone else.

I feel lockdowns are causing more harm than doing good. Countries who haven't had draconian lockdowns since the first wave last year like Sweden, South Africa and India haven't really fared much if any worse at all than countries who did impose draconian lockdowns.

We are being told by the experts we had no winter flu this season.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/no-cases-of-flu-reported-in-ireland-during-thewinter-40223398.html

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/clinical-areas/immunology-and-vaccines/no-flu-cases-detected-in-england-this-year-to-date/

Do you believe this is true?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 10:16:04 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 10:12:11 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 09:32:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 07:43:24 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

He's just proved to be a WUM, even entered the golf thread and was caught out also

But I expect he'll dust it down and come back with more shite, when all you've got is four walls and a computer there's not much else to do
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

Tweedledumb and Tweedledee have been two of the archetypal deferential types who do not seem to have the intelligence to question anything from an "expert". The term nodding donkeys comes to mind.

Tell me this, do both of you geniuses believe we eliminated winter flu this winter season?

Do both of you geniuses actually believe lockdowns have been successful?

You only need to look at the numbers to see that the current lockdown was both needed and has helped saved many lives. Deaths have gone from 25% above average at the start of the year to around normal in recent weeks, hospital numbers have dropped 90% and case numbers by something similar. This will hopefully have bought time for the vaccine to kick in leading to much less loss of life going forward.

We would be in an awful place now if we'd left everything opened in January and many hundreds more would have died with both covid and the effects of the health service being overwhelmed.

How can you say that?

Loads of people did die despite a severe lockdown being more or less in place since early October bar a week or two.

The numbers conclude lockdowns have been an overwhelming failure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:18:24 AM
So if we didn't have lockdowns then we would have less deaths? I'm confused enlighten me on that one please.

And please stop bringing in South Africa, Its been a shit show from the start, you brought in India and that's also a shit show
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:22:04 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:07:09 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 09:32:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 07:43:24 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

He's just proved to be a WUM, even entered the golf thread and was caught out also

But I expect he'll dust it down and come back with more shite, when all you've got is four walls and a computer there's not much else to do
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

Tweedledumb and Tweedledee have been two of the archetypal deferential types who do not seem to have the intelligence to question anything from an "expert". The term nodding donkeys comes to mind.

Tell me this, do both of you geniuses believe we eliminated winter flu this winter season?

Do both of you geniuses actually believe lockdowns have been successful?

No, they haven't been done right at all, they were half arsed and we failed with track and trace also. I can't answer for someone else though.

Winter flu has been a success this year, we should follow some of these procedures every year and that will stop people dying from the flu. Using the measures we have been using has stopped the movement of the flu, people bringing the flu in has been reduced also. If you can't see that as a factor then you are dumber than I thought, and that's a low bar.

Do you feel that the lockdowns have not saved more lives had we just let her rip?

Who is advocating let her rip? Not me anyway so if you want to have that argument you better have it with someone else.

I feel lockdowns are causing more harm than doing good. Countries who haven't had draconian lockdowns since the first wave last year like Sweden, South Africa and India haven't really fared much if any worse at all than countries who did impose draconian lockdowns.

We are being told by the experts we had no winter flu this season.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/no-cases-of-flu-reported-in-ireland-during-thewinter-40223398.html

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/clinical-areas/immunology-and-vaccines/no-flu-cases-detected-in-england-this-year-to-date/

Do you believe this is true?

Do you even read your own links?

No flu cases were detected in the last seven weeks thanks to 'changes in our behaviour', Public Health England (PHE) has said.

According to the latest PHE data, its respiratory datamart flu surveillance system detected no influenza positive samples between 28 December 2020 and 14 February 2021.

Just one positive flu case was detected out of 1,075 samples tested between 21 December and 29 December 2020.

The weekly flu reports also reveal that there were very few hospital or ICU/HDU admissions for flu within the same period – with just seven hospital admissions and one ICU/HDU admission between 21 December and 14 February.

PHE head of flu Dr Vanessa Saliba said both public health guidance and restrictions as well as high flu vaccination uptake have likely led to the low levels of flu circulating this season.

She said: 'The decrease in flu cases this year is likely due to changes in our behaviour, such as social distancing, face coverings and handwashing, as well as the reduction in international travel.

That's everything that I said earlier and you don't need a masters to understand how that would work
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 10:23:09 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:18:24 AM
So if we didn't have lockdowns then we would have less deaths? I'm confused enlighten me on that one please.

And please stop bringing in South Africa, Its been a shit show from the start, you brought in India and that's also a shit show

Who said that?

And the UK is a shitshow too, so is Ireland, so if France, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, the US.

All countries which have had draconian lockdowns for the most part of the past 12 month.

The thing is the countries who went the non-lockdown route have not fared compartively worse off over the past 12 months.

The impacts of lockdown's on people's lives, their livelihoods, their employment, their mental health, their physical well being, the impact of kids and vulnerable people with disabilities have been enormous.

The positive impacts of lockdowns seem to be almost negligible.

It's the definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 10:24:30 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 10:23:09 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:18:24 AM
So if we didn't have lockdowns then we would have less deaths? I'm confused enlighten me on that one please.

And please stop bringing in South Africa, Its been a shit show from the start, you brought in India and that's also a shit show

Who said that?

And the UK is a shitshow too, so is Ireland, so if France, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, the US.

All countries which have had draconian lockdowns for the most part of the past 12 month.

The thing is the countries who went the non-lockdown route have not fared compartively worse off over the past 12 months.

The impacts of lockdown's on people's lives, their livelihoods, their employment, their mental health, their physical well being, the impact of kids and vulnerable people with disabilities have been enormous.

The positive impacts of lockdowns seem to be almost negligible.

It's the definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Fair enough point Angelo, although I genuinely do believe that this is the last lockdown in UK/NI. We are nearly there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 25, 2021, 10:25:34 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:07:09 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 09:32:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 07:43:24 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

He's just proved to be a WUM, even entered the golf thread and was caught out also

But I expect he'll dust it down and come back with more shite, when all you've got is four walls and a computer there's not much else to do
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

Tweedledumb and Tweedledee have been two of the archetypal deferential types who do not seem to have the intelligence to question anything from an "expert". The term nodding donkeys comes to mind.

Tell me this, do both of you geniuses believe we eliminated winter flu this winter season?

Do both of you geniuses actually believe lockdowns have been successful?

No, they haven't been done right at all, they were half arsed and we failed with track and trace also. I can't answer for someone else though.

Winter flu has been a success this year, we should follow some of these procedures every year and that will stop people dying from the flu. Using the measures we have been using has stopped the movement of the flu, people bringing the flu in has been reduced also. If you can't see that as a factor then you are dumber than I thought, and that's a low bar.

Do you feel that the lockdowns have not saved more lives had we just let her rip?

Who is advocating let her rip? Not me anyway so if you want to have that argument you better have it with someone else.

I feel lockdowns are causing more harm than doing good. Countries who haven't had draconian lockdowns since the first wave last year like Sweden, South Africa and India haven't really fared much if any worse at all than countries who did impose draconian lockdowns.

We are being told by the experts we had no winter flu this season.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/no-cases-of-flu-reported-in-ireland-during-thewinter-40223398.html

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/clinical-areas/immunology-and-vaccines/no-flu-cases-detected-in-england-this-year-to-date/

Do you believe this is true?

Flu has been destroyed, destroyed I tell ya.

Why? Because the measures put in place for Covid also help prevent flu spreading. So I would fully expect flu levels to plummet.

Why do we not put these measures in place every year?

Because measures are proportionate to risk.

Why did we accept levels of death in 17/18? Are only Covid deaths important?

No, that was an outlier, and that level of deaths happened in normal circumstances without a lockdown.
There was a lockdown and we still nearly surpassed the highest "winter flu season" in 40 years.

I hope that expedited our discussion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 10:28:20 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 25, 2021, 10:25:34 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:07:09 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 09:32:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 07:43:24 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

He's just proved to be a WUM, even entered the golf thread and was caught out also

But I expect he'll dust it down and come back with more shite, when all you've got is four walls and a computer there's not much else to do
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

Tweedledumb and Tweedledee have been two of the archetypal deferential types who do not seem to have the intelligence to question anything from an "expert". The term nodding donkeys comes to mind.

Tell me this, do both of you geniuses believe we eliminated winter flu this winter season?

Do both of you geniuses actually believe lockdowns have been successful?

No, they haven't been done right at all, they were half arsed and we failed with track and trace also. I can't answer for someone else though.

Winter flu has been a success this year, we should follow some of these procedures every year and that will stop people dying from the flu. Using the measures we have been using has stopped the movement of the flu, people bringing the flu in has been reduced also. If you can't see that as a factor then you are dumber than I thought, and that's a low bar.

Do you feel that the lockdowns have not saved more lives had we just let her rip?

Who is advocating let her rip? Not me anyway so if you want to have that argument you better have it with someone else.

I feel lockdowns are causing more harm than doing good. Countries who haven't had draconian lockdowns since the first wave last year like Sweden, South Africa and India haven't really fared much if any worse at all than countries who did impose draconian lockdowns.

We are being told by the experts we had no winter flu this season.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/no-cases-of-flu-reported-in-ireland-during-thewinter-40223398.html

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/clinical-areas/immunology-and-vaccines/no-flu-cases-detected-in-england-this-year-to-date/

Do you believe this is true?

Flu has been destroyed, destroyed I tell ya.

Why? Because the measures put in place for Covid also help prevent flu spreading. So I would fully expect flu levels to plummet.

Why do we not put these measures in place every year?

Because measures are proportionate to risk.

Why did we accept levels of death in 17/18? Are only Covid deaths important?

No, that was an outlier, and that level of deaths happened in normal circumstances without a lockdown.
There was a lockdown and we still nearly surpassed the highest "winter flu season" in 40 years.

I hope that expedited our discussion.

You swallow that perception that we have eliminated flu this year, unequivocally without contention?

Covid was rampant over Winter but no flu existed.

I find that strange.

But hey when lockdowns don't work you can always create a new distracter and blame it on them - hmmmmm, let us call them variants.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 25, 2021, 10:33:18 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 10:28:20 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 25, 2021, 10:25:34 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 10:14:24 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:07:09 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 09:32:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 07:43:24 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

He's just proved to be a WUM, even entered the golf thread and was caught out also

But I expect he'll dust it down and come back with more shite, when all you've got is four walls and a computer there's not much else to do
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 25, 2021, 07:31:06 AM
Angelo has been made look very very silly the last few days when it come's to covid. I can't see any way back from him in the argument - his arguments were destroyed.

Tweedledumb and Tweedledee have been two of the archetypal deferential types who do not seem to have the intelligence to question anything from an "expert". The term nodding donkeys comes to mind.

Tell me this, do both of you geniuses believe we eliminated winter flu this winter season?

Do both of you geniuses actually believe lockdowns have been successful?

No, they haven't been done right at all, they were half arsed and we failed with track and trace also. I can't answer for someone else though.

Winter flu has been a success this year, we should follow some of these procedures every year and that will stop people dying from the flu. Using the measures we have been using has stopped the movement of the flu, people bringing the flu in has been reduced also. If you can't see that as a factor then you are dumber than I thought, and that's a low bar.

Do you feel that the lockdowns have not saved more lives had we just let her rip?

Who is advocating let her rip? Not me anyway so if you want to have that argument you better have it with someone else.

I feel lockdowns are causing more harm than doing good. Countries who haven't had draconian lockdowns since the first wave last year like Sweden, South Africa and India haven't really fared much if any worse at all than countries who did impose draconian lockdowns.

We are being told by the experts we had no winter flu this season.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/no-cases-of-flu-reported-in-ireland-during-thewinter-40223398.html

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/clinical-areas/immunology-and-vaccines/no-flu-cases-detected-in-england-this-year-to-date/

Do you believe this is true?

Flu has been destroyed, destroyed I tell ya.

Why? Because the measures put in place for Covid also help prevent flu spreading. So I would fully expect flu levels to plummet.

Why do we not put these measures in place every year?

Because measures are proportionate to risk.

Why did we accept levels of death in 17/18? Are only Covid deaths important?

No, that was an outlier, and that level of deaths happened in normal circumstances without a lockdown.
There was a lockdown and we still nearly surpassed the highest "winter flu season" in 40 years.

I hope that expedited our discussion.

You swallow that perception that we have eliminated flu this year, unequivocally without contention?

Covid was rampant over Winter but no flu existed.

I find that strange.

But hey when lockdowns don't work you can always create a new distracter and blame it on them - hmmmmm, let us call them variants.

I'm really disappointed you didn't agree with me.  :'(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 25, 2021, 10:33:33 AM
You can't teach stupid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 10:34:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 25, 2021, 10:33:33 AM
You can't teach stupid.

Maybe when they make it a subject you can follow your vocation. Until then......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:35:50 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 10:23:09 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:18:24 AM
So if we didn't have lockdowns then we would have less deaths? I'm confused enlighten me on that one please.

And please stop bringing in South Africa, Its been a shit show from the start, you brought in India and that's also a shit show

Who said that?

And the UK is a shitshow too, so is Ireland, so if France, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, the US.

All countries which have had draconian lockdowns for the most part of the past 12 month.

The thing is the countries who went the non-lockdown route have not fared compartively worse off over the past 12 months.

The impacts of lockdown's on people's lives, their livelihoods, their employment, their mental health, their physical well being, the impact of kids and vulnerable people with disabilities have been enormous.

The positive impacts of lockdowns seem to be almost negligible.

It's the definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

New Zealand? Australia? do you feel their lockdowns were draconian?

In other news, since getting the vaccine my internet reception in the house has improved
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 10:41:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:35:50 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 10:23:09 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:18:24 AM
So if we didn't have lockdowns then we would have less deaths? I'm confused enlighten me on that one please.

And please stop bringing in South Africa, Its been a shit show from the start, you brought in India and that's also a shit show

Who said that?

And the UK is a shitshow too, so is Ireland, so if France, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, the US.

All countries which have had draconian lockdowns for the most part of the past 12 month.

The thing is the countries who went the non-lockdown route have not fared compartively worse off over the past 12 months.

The impacts of lockdown's on people's lives, their livelihoods, their employment, their mental health, their physical well being, the impact of kids and vulnerable people with disabilities have been enormous.

The positive impacts of lockdowns seem to be almost negligible.

It's the definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

New Zealand? Australia? do you feel their lockdowns were draconian?

In other news, since getting the vaccine my internet reception in the house has improved

New Zealand pursued a zero Covid strategy from the outset. That's a different matter, the only effective way to do zero covid was from the outset, no point closing the gate when the horse has bolted.

Most countries had draconian lockdowns in the first wave, I had no issue with it then as it was to buy time and put in place the mechanisms and resources to be able to move forward with but governments failed and lockdowns and spinning us yarns about variants are their only reaction to it. I've given you plenty of examples of countries who have not introduced draconian lockdowns since last summer, comparatively they have not fared any worse than countries who have been in draconian lockdowns since last October?

You don't find yourself questioning the benefits of lockdowns with that in mind?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 10:51:09 AM
No haircuts to midsummer? When every barber and hairdresser in the country is working off the books and claiming pandemic payments, they'll be loving it!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on March 25, 2021, 10:59:52 AM
Can you please define what a draconian lockdown is so that we can understand the difference between SA, India and those other places that have had it easy compared to us?

Even now Australia has just lifted the final restrictions in Sydney that had limits on indoor gatherings, reduced capacity at outdoor events and wearing of masks. Even with those in place they've been far from our own restrictions this long time. You would envy them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 11:00:26 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 10:41:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:35:50 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 10:23:09 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:18:24 AM
So if we didn't have lockdowns then we would have less deaths? I'm confused enlighten me on that one please.

And please stop bringing in South Africa, Its been a shit show from the start, you brought in India and that's also a shit show

Who said that?

And the UK is a shitshow too, so is Ireland, so if France, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, the US.

All countries which have had draconian lockdowns for the most part of the past 12 month.

The thing is the countries who went the non-lockdown route have not fared compartively worse off over the past 12 months.

The impacts of lockdown's on people's lives, their livelihoods, their employment, their mental health, their physical well being, the impact of kids and vulnerable people with disabilities have been enormous.

The positive impacts of lockdowns seem to be almost negligible.

It's the definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

New Zealand? Australia? do you feel their lockdowns were draconian?

In other news, since getting the vaccine my internet reception in the house has improved

New Zealand pursued a zero Covid strategy from the outset. That's a different matter, the only effective way to do zero covid was from the outset, no point closing the gate when the horse has bolted.

Most countries had draconian lockdowns in the first wave, I had no issue with it then as it was to buy time and put in place the mechanisms and resources to be able to move forward with but governments failed and lockdowns and spinning us yarns about variants are their only reaction to it. I've given you plenty of examples of countries who have not introduced draconian lockdowns since last summer, comparatively they have not fared any worse than countries who have been in draconian lockdowns since last October?

You don't find yourself questioning the benefits of lockdowns with that in mind?

"No, they haven't been done right at all, they were half arsed and we failed with track and trace also" my answer to you!

Did you not read my response to you on this? I said the lockdowns were half arsed and didnt work as well as they should have, they were half arsed because we were half opened. airports, ports holidays and people not following the rules.

So I'll ask again, do you think New Zealand and Australia measures of closing the country down as being draconian?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on March 25, 2021, 11:03:27 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 10:51:09 AM
No haircuts to midsummer? When every barber and hairdresser in the country is working off the books and claiming pandemic payments, they'll be loving it!!

Not sure where these headlines come from but if it's the case be a lot of well off barbers and Hairdressers come the summer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 11:15:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 11:00:26 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 10:41:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:35:50 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 10:23:09 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:18:24 AM
So if we didn't have lockdowns then we would have less deaths? I'm confused enlighten me on that one please.

And please stop bringing in South Africa, Its been a shit show from the start, you brought in India and that's also a shit show

Who said that?

And the UK is a shitshow too, so is Ireland, so if France, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, the US.

All countries which have had draconian lockdowns for the most part of the past 12 month.

The thing is the countries who went the non-lockdown route have not fared compartively worse off over the past 12 months.

The impacts of lockdown's on people's lives, their livelihoods, their employment, their mental health, their physical well being, the impact of kids and vulnerable people with disabilities have been enormous.

The positive impacts of lockdowns seem to be almost negligible.

It's the definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

New Zealand? Australia? do you feel their lockdowns were draconian?

In other news, since getting the vaccine my internet reception in the house has improved

New Zealand pursued a zero Covid strategy from the outset. That's a different matter, the only effective way to do zero covid was from the outset, no point closing the gate when the horse has bolted.

Most countries had draconian lockdowns in the first wave, I had no issue with it then as it was to buy time and put in place the mechanisms and resources to be able to move forward with but governments failed and lockdowns and spinning us yarns about variants are their only reaction to it. I've given you plenty of examples of countries who have not introduced draconian lockdowns since last summer, comparatively they have not fared any worse than countries who have been in draconian lockdowns since last October?

You don't find yourself questioning the benefits of lockdowns with that in mind?

"No, they haven't been done right at all, they were half arsed and we failed with track and trace also" my answer to you!

Did you not read my response to you on this? I said the lockdowns were half arsed and didnt work as well as they should have, they were half arsed because we were half opened. airports, ports holidays and people not following the rules.

So I'll ask again, do you think New Zealand and Australia measures of closing the country down as being draconian?

So the fact that they have not been done right means it's a waste of time doing them unless you're going to do them right?

Are we going to do them right? If we have failed to do them right three times now then what it is the point of it?

I've already said, New Zealand did this right from the start but lockdowns weren't really the success story here - it was them closing their borders.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 11:16:53 AM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-publicans-and-tory-mps-fury-at-pms-vaccine-passports-for-pubs-idea-12255917

Interesting that its reported up to 60 Tories are about to rebel on the lockdown rules in place in United Kingdom. I would imagine it will get through anyway, but the tide is most certainly turning against lockdowns in general.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 11:25:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 11:16:53 AM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-publicans-and-tory-mps-fury-at-pms-vaccine-passports-for-pubs-idea-12255917

Interesting that its reported up to 60 Tories are about to rebel on the lockdown rules in place in United Kingdom. I would imagine it will get through anyway, but the tide is most certainly turning against lockdowns in general.
Vaccine passports to go abroad are bad enough, but for doing things like going to the pub? No chance. Up the rebels! ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 11:54:07 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 11:15:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 11:00:26 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 10:41:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:35:50 AM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 10:23:09 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:18:24 AM
So if we didn't have lockdowns then we would have less deaths? I'm confused enlighten me on that one please.

And please stop bringing in South Africa, Its been a shit show from the start, you brought in India and that's also a shit show

Who said that?

And the UK is a shitshow too, so is Ireland, so if France, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, the US.

All countries which have had draconian lockdowns for the most part of the past 12 month.

The thing is the countries who went the non-lockdown route have not fared compartively worse off over the past 12 months.

The impacts of lockdown's on people's lives, their livelihoods, their employment, their mental health, their physical well being, the impact of kids and vulnerable people with disabilities have been enormous.

The positive impacts of lockdowns seem to be almost negligible.

It's the definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

New Zealand? Australia? do you feel their lockdowns were draconian?

In other news, since getting the vaccine my internet reception in the house has improved

New Zealand pursued a zero Covid strategy from the outset. That's a different matter, the only effective way to do zero covid was from the outset, no point closing the gate when the horse has bolted.

Most countries had draconian lockdowns in the first wave, I had no issue with it then as it was to buy time and put in place the mechanisms and resources to be able to move forward with but governments failed and lockdowns and spinning us yarns about variants are their only reaction to it. I've given you plenty of examples of countries who have not introduced draconian lockdowns since last summer, comparatively they have not fared any worse than countries who have been in draconian lockdowns since last October?

You don't find yourself questioning the benefits of lockdowns with that in mind?

"No, they haven't been done right at all, they were half arsed and we failed with track and trace also" my answer to you!

Did you not read my response to you on this? I said the lockdowns were half arsed and didnt work as well as they should have, they were half arsed because we were half opened. airports, ports holidays and people not following the rules.

So I'll ask again, do you think New Zealand and Australia measures of closing the country down as being draconian?

So the fact that they have not been done right means it's a waste of time doing them unless you're going to do them right?

Are we going to do them right? If we have failed to do them right three times now then what it is the point of it?

I've already said, New Zealand did this right from the start but lockdowns weren't really the success story here - it was them closing their borders.

Well if you are only going to do it half arsed then you'll get half arsed results, so in response to half arsed measures then we got the results we expected, whereas New Zealand did it right from the start and have been enjoying the proper living, though the flu rate is through the roof! Only joking. So closing the borders is what we did.

I don't know anyone, and I mean anyone who thinks the lockdowns are good, they have just reduced the number of deaths, but some reason you feel that the lockdowns have not reduced deaths
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 12:03:59 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 25, 2021, 12:01:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 11:25:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 11:16:53 AM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-publicans-and-tory-mps-fury-at-pms-vaccine-passports-for-pubs-idea-12255917

Interesting that its reported up to 60 Tories are about to rebel on the lockdown rules in place in United Kingdom. I would imagine it will get through anyway, but the tide is most certainly turning against lockdowns in general.
Vaccine passports to go abroad are bad enough, but for doing things like going to the pub? No chance. Up the rebels! ;)

The likes of the Dog and Duck will not care if you have a vaccine passport or not but the more classier establishments no doubt will try and enforce it.

I'll be loving it, in the pub with my vaccine passport (get second one on 1st April) great 5G reception and looking up flights to go on holidays.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 12:09:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 12:03:59 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 25, 2021, 12:01:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 11:25:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 11:16:53 AM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-publicans-and-tory-mps-fury-at-pms-vaccine-passports-for-pubs-idea-12255917

Interesting that its reported up to 60 Tories are about to rebel on the lockdown rules in place in United Kingdom. I would imagine it will get through anyway, but the tide is most certainly turning against lockdowns in general.
Vaccine passports to go abroad are bad enough, but for doing things like going to the pub? No chance. Up the rebels! ;)

The likes of the Dog and Duck will not care if you have a vaccine passport or not but the more classier establishments no doubt will try and enforce it.

I'll be loving it, in the pub with my vaccine passport (get second one on 1st April) great 5G reception and looking up flights to go on holidays.

Any chance next time you cut the finger you can get me a drop of your blood, I won't get the vaccine for awhile yet  :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 12:23:07 PM
Front line worker 8)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 25, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 25, 2021, 12:01:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 11:25:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 11:16:53 AM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-publicans-and-tory-mps-fury-at-pms-vaccine-passports-for-pubs-idea-12255917

Interesting that its reported up to 60 Tories are about to rebel on the lockdown rules in place in United Kingdom. I would imagine it will get through anyway, but the tide is most certainly turning against lockdowns in general.
Vaccine passports to go abroad are bad enough, but for doing things like going to the pub? No chance. Up the rebels! ;)

The likes of the Dog and Duck will not care if you have a vaccine passport or not but the more classier establishments no doubt will try and enforce it.

If Covid passports become a thing for Pubs then I will only frequent those that enforce it. I'll certainly wouldn't be comfortable sharing an enclosed space with someone not vaccinated. You could find that those more refined establishments become even more in demand.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on March 25, 2021, 04:20:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 25, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 25, 2021, 12:01:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 11:25:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 11:16:53 AM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-publicans-and-tory-mps-fury-at-pms-vaccine-passports-for-pubs-idea-12255917

Interesting that its reported up to 60 Tories are about to rebel on the lockdown rules in place in United Kingdom. I would imagine it will get through anyway, but the tide is most certainly turning against lockdowns in general.
Vaccine passports to go abroad are bad enough, but for doing things like going to the pub? No chance. Up the rebels! ;)

The likes of the Dog and Duck will not care if you have a vaccine passport or not but the more classier establishments no doubt will try and enforce it.

If Covid passports become a thing for Pubs then I will only frequent those that enforce it. I'll certainly wouldn't be comfortable sharing an enclosed space with someone not vaccinated. You could find that those more refined establishments become even more in demand.

Absolutely trailer.
Those that dont enforce it may see their customer base shrink
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 04:44:39 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 25, 2021, 04:20:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 25, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 25, 2021, 12:01:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 11:25:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 11:16:53 AM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-publicans-and-tory-mps-fury-at-pms-vaccine-passports-for-pubs-idea-12255917

Interesting that its reported up to 60 Tories are about to rebel on the lockdown rules in place in United Kingdom. I would imagine it will get through anyway, but the tide is most certainly turning against lockdowns in general.
Vaccine passports to go abroad are bad enough, but for doing things like going to the pub? No chance. Up the rebels! ;)

The likes of the Dog and Duck will not care if you have a vaccine passport or not but the more classier establishments no doubt will try and enforce it.

If Covid passports become a thing for Pubs then I will only frequent those that enforce it. I'll certainly wouldn't be comfortable sharing an enclosed space with someone not vaccinated. You could find that those more refined establishments become even more in demand.

Absolutely trailer.
Those that dont enforce it may see their customer base shrink
I highly doubt many people will care, especially younger people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on March 25, 2021, 05:53:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 25, 2021, 09:29:26 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on March 24, 2021, 05:02:38 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 24, 2021, 02:59:07 PM
Lockdowns do not work, that is established...

Quote from: Angelo on March 24, 2021, 02:24:21 PM
Sweden have not had a lockdown and comparatively have fared much the same as countries across Europe who have endured severe and draconian lockdowns.
Bullshit!

When you compare the Covid Mortality Rate per 100k of Population, you'll see that Sweden has fared far worse than its Nordic Neighbours, with whom it is best comparable:

Iceland - 8.20
Norway - 12.21
Finland - 14.64
Denmark - 41.47
Sweden - 130.75
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

Of course Iceland had it somewhat easier for being an island, whilst Denmark had it harder being connected by land to mainland Europe.
Nonetheless, having a mortality rate 9 x times that of Finland to the east and 11 x times that of Norway to the west, both of which imposed lockdowns, tells a clear and unambiguous story.


Not only that, but Sweden didn't even escape the blow to its economy that lockdown causes - in fact it came off worse than its neighbours who did lockdown:

Sweden's GDP fell 8.6% during the second quarter of the year, according to its statistics body.
The fall is sharper than its neighbors — Denmark registered a 7.4% fall, and Finland a 3.2% fall. Statistics suggest Norway also fared better than Sweden.
Sweden decided not to pursue a nationwide lockdown, unlike most European nation. The statistics show this did not help its economy.
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-sweden-gdp-falls-8pc-in-q2-worse-nordic-neighbors-2020-8?op=1&r=US&IR=T (https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-sweden-gdp-falls-8pc-in-q2-worse-nordic-neighbors-2020-8?op=1&r=US&IR=T)
[August 2020 is the most recent, easily laid-out figures I can find, but I believe the trend continued throughout the year]



Further, I say "formal" lockdown, since it is misleading to consider that Sweden didn't institute any restrictions. For example, some lower age schools were closed and gatherings over a certain number were prohibited. There were many other recommendations re. social distancing and mask-wearing issued, whilst many people/organisations/companies observed voluntary restrictions. This latter was evidenced eg by a significant fall in public transport tickets bought and a fall in credit card transactions.

Yet despite this, as the failure of their inital "herd immunity" strategy became ever more evident (undeniable), the country was forced to admit this and issue further restrictions, eg:

Nov.2020 -
No-lockdown Sweden toughens up restrictions as coronavirus cases rise:
Sweden appears to be changing tack and implementing stricter measures as a second wave of infections takes hold and hospitalizations rise.
On Monday, it announced that public gatherings of more than eight people were no longer allowed.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/17/sweden-toughens-up-coronavirus-rules-as-infections-and-deaths-rise.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/17/sweden-toughens-up-coronavirus-rules-as-infections-and-deaths-rise.html)

Dec.2020 -
Sweden's king has said his country "failed" to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus pandemic.
Sweden, which has never imposed a full lockdown, has seen nearly 350,000 cases and more than 7,800 deaths - a lot more than its Scandinavian neighbours.
Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said he agreed with the king's remarks.
"Of course the fact that so many have died can't be considered as anything other than a failure," Mr Lofven told reporters.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55347021 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55347021)

Jan.2021 -
What you can be fined for under Sweden's [latest] pandemic law:
Sweden's new pandemic law gives the government power to introduce extra measures to curb the spread of the coronavirus, and if you break these, you could face fines or other legal sanctions.

As of January 19th, the measures introduced under the law mostly applied to businesses rather than individuals. For example, shops, gyms and sports facilities are limited to a maximum of one person per ten square metres of usable space (not shelves or cash registers), and these limits must be stated in risk assessments and advertised on signs at every entrance, and stated in mandatory risk assessments.
https://www.thelocal.se/20210119/what-can-you-be-fined-for-and-for-how-much-under-swedens-pandemic-law/ (https://www.thelocal.se/20210119/what-can-you-be-fined-for-and-for-how-much-under-swedens-pandemic-law/)

Feb.2021 -
New closing time: Sweden's rolls out more coronavirus rules for restaurants

From Monday, all restaurants and cafés in Sweden will have to close at 8.30pm under rules that will shortly be put forward by the Public Health Agency.
The regulation will apply regardless of whether or not the venues serve alcohol. Sweden has previously banned bars and restaurants from serving alcohol after 8pm, but due to a loophole in the law they have been able to remain open much longer in the evening. They would now have to shut their doors completely at 8.30pm.
https://www.thelocal.se/20210224/swedish-prime-minister-calls-press-conference-new-coronavirus-measures/ (https://www.thelocal.se/20210224/swedish-prime-minister-calls-press-conference-new-coronavirus-measures/)

So we're only allowed compare Sweden with 4 other European countries.

Seem like an utterly ridiculous logic.
You're allowed to compare Sweden with anyone you like - Cyprus, Liechtenstein, Gibraltar, Russia etc - take your pick.

Just as you're allowed to be deliberately obtuse (or stupid).

But with every country having different conditions, sometimes wildly so, then it makes sense to try to compare like-for-like as far as possible.

Which makes their Nordic neighbours the best possible comparitors for Sweden.

My point being that such a comparison shows that not having a formal lockdown was disastrous for the Swedes - as they've now been forced to admit themselves.

Or do you not get the word "failure"?:
Sweden's king has said his country "failed" to save lives with its relatively relaxed approach to the coronavirus pandemic.
Sweden, which has never imposed a full lockdown, has seen nearly 350,000 cases and more than 7,800 deaths - a lot more than its Scandinavian neighbours.
Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said he agreed with the king's remarks.
"Of course the fact that so many have died can't be considered as anything other than a failure," Mr Lofven told reporters.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55347021
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 06:18:52 PM
Angelo you've been referring to flu's and no flu's recorded, just new variants of Covid.

What do you mean exactly?

Am I too assume from your references that, Covid is just a new flu variant that has mutated to becoming more life threatening to the worldwide and not just in the winter months?

Or that Covid is actually flu and we should have just treated it as such and continued with limited restrictions?

Or Covid is real and not flu at all and with a closed border attitude we could have saved more lives?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 06:30:15 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 04:44:39 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 25, 2021, 04:20:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 25, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 25, 2021, 12:01:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 11:25:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 11:16:53 AM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-publicans-and-tory-mps-fury-at-pms-vaccine-passports-for-pubs-idea-12255917

Interesting that its reported up to 60 Tories are about to rebel on the lockdown rules in place in United Kingdom. I would imagine it will get through anyway, but the tide is most certainly turning against lockdowns in general.
Vaccine passports to go abroad are bad enough, but for doing things like going to the pub? No chance. Up the rebels! ;)

The likes of the Dog and Duck will not care if you have a vaccine passport or not but the more classier establishments no doubt will try and enforce it.

If Covid passports become a thing for Pubs then I will only frequent those that enforce it. I'll certainly wouldn't be comfortable sharing an enclosed space with someone not vaccinated. You could find that those more refined establishments become even more in demand.

Absolutely trailer.
Those that dont enforce it may see their customer base shrink
I highly doubt many people will care, especially younger people.

After Robin Swanns tone deaf comments yesturday, social media was full of vaccine rejection among my age grouping.

"Why will I take it when there is no freedom...." to paraphrase.

These are the people with the larger disposible incomes. Don't underestimate the power they have to the hospitality sector. When everything opens up, or begins to, it will be that age group that starts the economic recovery.

And for sake of good order, it will also be them who pays the majority of the cost for everything that has been.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 25, 2021, 06:46:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 06:30:15 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 04:44:39 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 25, 2021, 04:20:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 25, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 25, 2021, 12:01:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 11:25:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 11:16:53 AM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-publicans-and-tory-mps-fury-at-pms-vaccine-passports-for-pubs-idea-12255917

Interesting that its reported up to 60 Tories are about to rebel on the lockdown rules in place in United Kingdom. I would imagine it will get through anyway, but the tide is most certainly turning against lockdowns in general.
Vaccine passports to go abroad are bad enough, but for doing things like going to the pub? No chance. Up the rebels! ;)

The likes of the Dog and Duck will not care if you have a vaccine passport or not but the more classier establishments no doubt will try and enforce it.

If Covid passports become a thing for Pubs then I will only frequent those that enforce it. I'll certainly wouldn't be comfortable sharing an enclosed space with someone not vaccinated. You could find that those more refined establishments become even more in demand.

Absolutely trailer.
Those that dont enforce it may see their customer base shrink
I highly doubt many people will care, especially younger people.

After Robin Swanns tone deaf comments yesturday, social media was full of vaccine rejection among my age grouping.

"Why will I take it when there is no freedom...." to paraphrase.

These are the people with the larger disposible incomes. Don't underestimate the power they have to the hospitality sector. When everything opens up, or begins to, it will be that age group that starts the economic recovery.

And for sake of good order, it will also be them who pays the majority of the cost for everything that has been.

That doesn't make any sense... Surely a: protecting yourself and b: getting the vaccine passport that airlines etc will most likely insist on are the reasons to take the vaccine? Things will be back to normal alot quicker if people of your age get the jab GOTB
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 25, 2021, 07:08:58 PM
That's a bit like saying if you driving at the speed limit why would you care if the other guy was driving at the speed limit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 25, 2021, 07:14:00 PM
"SIR" Charles Walker MP wants "an end to all restrictions" and won't get the vaccine because he's afraid of needles

He's "protesting" with a pint of milk

Screaming Lord Sutch and his Monster Raving Loony Party were ahead of their time

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 25, 2021, 07:22:00 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 25, 2021, 07:02:49 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 25, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 25, 2021, 12:01:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 11:25:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 11:16:53 AM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-publicans-and-tory-mps-fury-at-pms-vaccine-passports-for-pubs-idea-12255917

Interesting that its reported up to 60 Tories are about to rebel on the lockdown rules in place in United Kingdom. I would imagine it will get through anyway, but the tide is most certainly turning against lockdowns in general.
Vaccine passports to go abroad are bad enough, but for doing things like going to the pub? No chance. Up the rebels! ;)

The likes of the Dog and Duck will not care if you have a vaccine passport or not but the more classier establishments no doubt will try and enforce it.

If Covid passports become a thing for Pubs then I will only frequent those that enforce it. I'll certainly wouldn't be comfortable sharing an enclosed space with someone not vaccinated. You could find that those more refined establishments become even more in demand.

If you are vaccinated why would you care if some other guy in the pub is vaccinated or not?

You do realise that you are not only taking the vaccine for yourself, you are taking it for everyone? We're striving for the highest % of people we can to eliminate this virus, the same as we have done down the years with a list of other virus's. I'd say without social media, the % would be huge. But social media is full of absolute binlids pushing their own agendas (much of it right wing linked) and charlatans plying that space with misinformation.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 25, 2021, 08:38:47 PM
Vaccination is the solution to lockdown. If people do not want to be vaccinated then they can remain in lockdown and be excluded from buses, pubs, etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on March 25, 2021, 08:51:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 25, 2021, 08:38:47 PM
Vaccination is the solution to lockdown. If people do not want to be vaccinated then they can remain in lockdown and be excluded from buses, pubs, etc.

Nah, we'll just get our passports here instead:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56489574
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 10:06:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 25, 2021, 08:38:47 PM
Vaccination is the solution to lockdown. If people do not want to be vaccinated then they can remain in lockdown and be excluded from buses, pubs, etc.
Yep and a big yellow star for the unvaccinated....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 10:17:42 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 10:06:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 25, 2021, 08:38:47 PM
Vaccination is the solution to lockdown. If people do not want to be vaccinated then they can remain in lockdown and be excluded from buses, pubs, etc.
Yep and a big yellow star for the unvaccinated....

I'd settle for bells, so you can hear them coming down the street
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on March 25, 2021, 10:58:07 PM
Going by news across the planet and especially those countries who always seem to be a month or two ahead of us, there seems to be a sting in the tail of this virus. I think the hope is that a decent uptake of the vaccine will offset that. We'll know soon enough. I'd be hopeful enough.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 26, 2021, 10:58:51 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 25, 2021, 06:46:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 06:30:15 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 04:44:39 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 25, 2021, 04:20:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 25, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 25, 2021, 12:01:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 11:25:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 11:16:53 AM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-publicans-and-tory-mps-fury-at-pms-vaccine-passports-for-pubs-idea-12255917

Interesting that its reported up to 60 Tories are about to rebel on the lockdown rules in place in United Kingdom. I would imagine it will get through anyway, but the tide is most certainly turning against lockdowns in general.
Vaccine passports to go abroad are bad enough, but for doing things like going to the pub? No chance. Up the rebels! ;)

The likes of the Dog and Duck will not care if you have a vaccine passport or not but the more classier establishments no doubt will try and enforce it.

If Covid passports become a thing for Pubs then I will only frequent those that enforce it. I'll certainly wouldn't be comfortable sharing an enclosed space with someone not vaccinated. You could find that those more refined establishments become even more in demand.

Absolutely trailer.
Those that dont enforce it may see their customer base shrink
I highly doubt many people will care, especially younger people.

After Robin Swanns tone deaf comments yesturday, social media was full of vaccine rejection among my age grouping.

"Why will I take it when there is no freedom...." to paraphrase.

These are the people with the larger disposible incomes. Don't underestimate the power they have to the hospitality sector. When everything opens up, or begins to, it will be that age group that starts the economic recovery.

And for sake of good order, it will also be them who pays the majority of the cost for everything that has been.

That doesn't make any sense... Surely a: protecting yourself and b: getting the vaccine passport that airlines etc will most likely insist on are the reasons to take the vaccine? Things will be back to normal alot quicker if people of your age get the jab GOTB

I would agree, but unfortunately the pace of the reopening isn't going quick enough for the younger generation....well, 20-30ish odd. The younger ones below that don't care a jot....they know it doesn't harm them, they are young. I wouldn't be for branding them over that.....with time comes maturity.

It's probably always the contrary that are the loudest, I've no bother taking the vaccine personally. I think most people will avail, but I do respect those who don't want to take it for any reason. The people in Govt will not be basing their plans on 100% vaccine uptake I'm sure.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2021, 11:06:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 26, 2021, 10:58:51 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 25, 2021, 06:46:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 06:30:15 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 04:44:39 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 25, 2021, 04:20:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 25, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 25, 2021, 12:01:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 11:25:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 11:16:53 AM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-publicans-and-tory-mps-fury-at-pms-vaccine-passports-for-pubs-idea-12255917

Interesting that its reported up to 60 Tories are about to rebel on the lockdown rules in place in United Kingdom. I would imagine it will get through anyway, but the tide is most certainly turning against lockdowns in general.
Vaccine passports to go abroad are bad enough, but for doing things like going to the pub? No chance. Up the rebels! ;)

The likes of the Dog and Duck will not care if you have a vaccine passport or not but the more classier establishments no doubt will try and enforce it.

If Covid passports become a thing for Pubs then I will only frequent those that enforce it. I'll certainly wouldn't be comfortable sharing an enclosed space with someone not vaccinated. You could find that those more refined establishments become even more in demand.

Absolutely trailer.
Those that dont enforce it may see their customer base shrink
I highly doubt many people will care, especially younger people.

After Robin Swanns tone deaf comments yesturday, social media was full of vaccine rejection among my age grouping.

"Why will I take it when there is no freedom...." to paraphrase.

These are the people with the larger disposible incomes. Don't underestimate the power they have to the hospitality sector. When everything opens up, or begins to, it will be that age group that starts the economic recovery.

And for sake of good order, it will also be them who pays the majority of the cost for everything that has been.

That doesn't make any sense... Surely a: protecting yourself and b: getting the vaccine passport that airlines etc will most likely insist on are the reasons to take the vaccine? Things will be back to normal alot quicker if people of your age get the jab GOTB

I would agree, but unfortunately the pace of the reopening isn't going quick enough for the younger generation....well, 20-30ish odd. The younger ones below that don't care a jot....they know it doesn't harm them, they are young. I wouldn't be for branding them over that.....with time comes maturity.

It's probably always the contrary that are the loudest, I've no bother taking the vaccine personally. I think most people will avail, but I do respect those who don't want to take it for any reason. The people in Govt will not be basing their plans on 100% vaccine uptake I'm sure.

Any reason being, you are being chipped and its all 5G's fault/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tintin25 on March 26, 2021, 01:14:58 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56535575

So people may quit if forced to WFH...think they'll find it's pretty much that people may quit if forced to return to the office full time lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on March 26, 2021, 04:57:43 PM
O Neill do you not think we are now a few months ahead of the European country's?
What we were getting towards the end of November December and January?
My reading of it is they are now getting the Kent Variant
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 26, 2021, 06:00:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 26, 2021, 11:06:26 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 26, 2021, 10:58:51 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 25, 2021, 06:46:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 06:30:15 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 04:44:39 PM
Quote from: Taylor on March 25, 2021, 04:20:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 25, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 25, 2021, 12:01:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 25, 2021, 11:25:40 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 25, 2021, 11:16:53 AM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-publicans-and-tory-mps-fury-at-pms-vaccine-passports-for-pubs-idea-12255917

Interesting that its reported up to 60 Tories are about to rebel on the lockdown rules in place in United Kingdom. I would imagine it will get through anyway, but the tide is most certainly turning against lockdowns in general.
Vaccine passports to go abroad are bad enough, but for doing things like going to the pub? No chance. Up the rebels! ;)

The likes of the Dog and Duck will not care if you have a vaccine passport or not but the more classier establishments no doubt will try and enforce it.

If Covid passports become a thing for Pubs then I will only frequent those that enforce it. I'll certainly wouldn't be comfortable sharing an enclosed space with someone not vaccinated. You could find that those more refined establishments become even more in demand.

Absolutely trailer.
Those that dont enforce it may see their customer base shrink
I highly doubt many people will care, especially younger people.

After Robin Swanns tone deaf comments yesturday, social media was full of vaccine rejection among my age grouping.

"Why will I take it when there is no freedom...." to paraphrase.

These are the people with the larger disposible incomes. Don't underestimate the power they have to the hospitality sector. When everything opens up, or begins to, it will be that age group that starts the economic recovery.

And for sake of good order, it will also be them who pays the majority of the cost for everything that has been.

That doesn't make any sense... Surely a: protecting yourself and b: getting the vaccine passport that airlines etc will most likely insist on are the reasons to take the vaccine? Things will be back to normal alot quicker if people of your age get the jab GOTB

I would agree, but unfortunately the pace of the reopening isn't going quick enough for the younger generation....well, 20-30ish odd. The younger ones below that don't care a jot....they know it doesn't harm them, they are young. I wouldn't be for branding them over that.....with time comes maturity.

It's probably always the contrary that are the loudest, I've no bother taking the vaccine personally. I think most people will avail, but I do respect those who don't want to take it for any reason. The people in Govt will not be basing their plans on 100% vaccine uptake I'm sure.

Any reason being, you are being chipped and its all 5G's fault/

Typical Mildred debasing of any constructive debate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 26, 2021, 06:17:52 PM
Quote from: ONeill on March 25, 2021, 10:58:07 PM
Going by news across the planet and especially those countries who always seem to be a month or two ahead of us, there seems to be a sting in the tail of this virus. I think the hope is that a decent uptake of the vaccine will offset that. We'll know soon enough. I'd be hopeful enough.

The opinion of a Teacher.... laying the tracks.... itching to get the schools closed... IGNORE!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on March 26, 2021, 06:21:38 PM
I didnt realise O'Neill had this influence but thanks for the heads up ill be more wary of this guy from now on..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2021, 01:06:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 06:18:52 PM
Angelo you've been referring to flu's and no flu's recorded, just new variants of Covid.

What do you mean exactly?

Am I too assume from your references that, Covid is just a new flu variant that has mutated to becoming more life threatening to the worldwide and not just in the winter months?

Or that Covid is actually flu and we should have just treated it as such and continued with limited restrictions?
Can you answer theses?
Or Covid is real and not flu at all and with a closed border attitude we could have saved more lives?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on March 27, 2021, 01:45:38 AM
Ex cdc chief is now saying in his opinion the virus originated and escaped from a Wuhan lab .
Some China lovers on here won't like to hear this .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 27, 2021, 09:53:39 AM
QuoteSome China lovers on here

;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 27, 2021, 01:44:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 27, 2021, 01:45:38 AM
Ex cdc chief is now saying in his opinion the virus originated and escaped from a Wuhan lab .
Some China lovers on here won't like to hear this .

I just loves me china ye know!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 27, 2021, 02:37:47 PM
"Ex cdc chief saying IN HIS OPINION..."
yep ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on March 27, 2021, 09:39:39 PM
Just as expect those unapproved experimental injections will go on and on like the Energizer Bunny. Ching Ching Goes The Money Tree. Time to say enough.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false (https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on March 27, 2021, 09:49:51 PM
Quote from: Seamus on March 27, 2021, 09:39:39 PM
Just as expect those unapproved experimental injections will go on and on like the Energizer Bunny. Ching Ching Goes The Money Tree. Time to say enough.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false (https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false)

You do know most over 70s get the flu jab every year anyway don't you??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2021, 09:51:57 PM
Was reading the comments 🤦‍♀️

The vaccine speeds up dementia
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on March 27, 2021, 09:53:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2021, 09:51:57 PM
Was reading the comments 🤦‍♀️

The vaccine speeds up dementia

Was just about to post the same  :)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 27, 2021, 10:35:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 27, 2021, 01:45:38 AM
Ex cdc chief is now saying in his opinion the virus originated and escaped from a Wuhan lab .
Some China lovers on here won't like to hear this .

Redfield?

The fukknuckle who completely made a balls of the US testing system?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 27, 2021, 11:25:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2021, 09:51:57 PM
Was reading the comments 🤦‍♀️

The vaccine speeds up dementia

It's BitChute, the right wing loneybin's video site of choice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 12:14:50 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 27, 2021, 09:49:51 PM
Quote from: Seamus on March 27, 2021, 09:39:39 PM
Just as expect those unapproved experimental injections will go on and on like the Energizer Bunny. Ching Ching Goes The Money Tree. Time to say enough.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false (https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false)

You do know most over 70s get the flu jab every year anyway don't you??

Sure they won't be needing the flu jab any longer as the flu has mysteriously been eliminated for the first time in living memory. I've read the crazy reasons why from the kool aid drinkers on this forum.

Best of luck with your lethal injection.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 12:16:19 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 27, 2021, 11:25:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2021, 09:51:57 PM
Was reading the comments 🤦‍♀️

The vaccine speeds up dementia

It's BitChute, the right wing loneybin's video site of choice.

I guess the loonies staged the BBC studio.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2021, 12:22:15 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 12:16:19 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 27, 2021, 11:25:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2021, 09:51:57 PM
Was reading the comments 🤦‍♀️

The vaccine speeds up dementia

It's BitChute, the right wing loneybin's video site of choice.

I guess the loonies staged the BBC studio.

Seamus, will you be taking the vaccine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2021, 12:36:16 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 12:14:50 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 27, 2021, 09:49:51 PM
Quote from: Seamus on March 27, 2021, 09:39:39 PM
Just as expect those unapproved experimental injections will go on and on like the Energizer Bunny. Ching Ching Goes The Money Tree. Time to say enough.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false (https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false)

You do know most over 70s get the flu jab every year anyway don't you??

Sure they won't be needing the flu jab any longer as the flu has mysteriously been eliminated for the first time in living memory. I've read the crazy reasons why from the kool aid drinkers on this forum.

Best of luck with your lethal injection.
Millions of people, including me, seem to be doing okay. If it's a lethal injection someone needs to get their money back.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 28, 2021, 02:18:07 AM
According to the Sunday Times tomorrow, London is going to offer a load of vaccine to the ROI to give the EU a "poke in the eye".
I'd say this is troublemaking more than anything else, as the UK will have no great surplus for a while.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExhUsnRWQAA4y2f?format=png)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 03:46:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2021, 12:22:15 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 12:16:19 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 27, 2021, 11:25:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2021, 09:51:57 PM
Was reading the comments 🤦‍♀️

The vaccine speeds up dementia

It's BitChute, the right wing loneybin's video site of choice.

I guess the loonies staged the BBC studio.

Seamus, will you be taking the vaccine?

Now Milltown, you surely know the answer to that. Not for all the money in the world. There are no medium or long term trials on an mRNA vaccine that has never been used on humans before. My health is far too important to start playing Russian Roulette. I'm disappointed so many are rushing to judgement, it will give me no joy if the injuries and deaths start piling up. Most of the young people I know are not for taking it but will do so only because they believe it will get them back to their way of living pre 2020.

I'm in the process of starting a humanitarian project to aid the very ill - cancer, diabetes, autoimmune disease etc., should be up and running later this year. For more than half my life health is my number one passion. It is now time to give back and help others.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 04:03:16 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2021, 12:36:16 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 12:14:50 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 27, 2021, 09:49:51 PM
Quote from: Seamus on March 27, 2021, 09:39:39 PM
Just as expect those unapproved experimental injections will go on and on like the Energizer Bunny. Ching Ching Goes The Money Tree. Time to say enough.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false (https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false)

You do know most over 70s get the flu jab every year anyway don't you??

Sure they won't be needing the flu jab any longer as the flu has mysteriously been eliminated for the first time in living memory. I've read the crazy reasons why from the kool aid drinkers on this forum.

Best of luck with your lethal injection.
Millions of people, including me, seem to be doing okay. If it's a lethal injection someone needs to get their money back.

It's not a one fit all solution. There will be a certain amount that will probably never get an adverse reaction, for others it will be immediate but for the vast majority it could be what is called "slow kill", always dependent on medication, beginning more in the medium to long term. High possibility of autoimmune disease from the reaction to the spike protein.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Norf Tyrone on March 28, 2021, 08:02:12 AM
How is it a money tree and a lethal injection?
🙈
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on March 28, 2021, 08:56:09 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 04:03:16 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2021, 12:36:16 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 12:14:50 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 27, 2021, 09:49:51 PM
Quote from: Seamus on March 27, 2021, 09:39:39 PM
Just as expect those unapproved experimental injections will go on and on like the Energizer Bunny. Ching Ching Goes The Money Tree. Time to say enough.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false (https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false)

You do know most over 70s get the flu jab every year anyway don't you??

Sure they won't be needing the flu jab any longer as the flu has mysteriously been eliminated for the first time in living memory. I've read the crazy reasons why from the kool aid drinkers on this forum.

Best of luck with your lethal injection.
Millions of people, including me, seem to be doing okay. If it's a lethal injection someone needs to get their money back.

It's not a one fit all solution. There will be a certain amount that will probably never get an adverse reaction, for others it will be immediate but for the vast majority it could be what is called "slow kill", always dependent on medication, beginning more in the medium to long term. High possibility of autoimmune disease from the reaction to the spike protein.

That's interesting Seamus. Can you provide a link to the peer reviewed academic research which backs up your hypothesis.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 28, 2021, 09:10:18 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 04:03:16 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2021, 12:36:16 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 12:14:50 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 27, 2021, 09:49:51 PM
Quote from: Seamus on March 27, 2021, 09:39:39 PM
Just as expect those unapproved experimental injections will go on and on like the Energizer Bunny. Ching Ching Goes The Money Tree. Time to say enough.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false (https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false)

You do know most over 70s get the flu jab every year anyway don't you??

Sure they won't be needing the flu jab any longer as the flu has mysteriously been eliminated for the first time in living memory. I've read the crazy reasons why from the kool aid drinkers on this forum.

Best of luck with your lethal injection.
Millions of people, including me, seem to be doing okay. If it's a lethal injection someone needs to get their money back.

It's not a one fit all solution. There will be a certain amount that will probably never get an adverse reaction, for others it will be immediate but for the vast majority it could be what is called "slow kill", always dependent on medication, beginning more in the medium to long term. High possibility of autoimmune disease from the reaction to the spike protein.

This f**king nonsense needs banned. This is dangerous. It's up there with hate speech. It's not free speech if it's utter shite.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 28, 2021, 09:11:49 AM
Quote from: trailer on March 28, 2021, 09:10:18 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 04:03:16 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2021, 12:36:16 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 12:14:50 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 27, 2021, 09:49:51 PM
Quote from: Seamus on March 27, 2021, 09:39:39 PM
Just as expect those unapproved experimental injections will go on and on like the Energizer Bunny. Ching Ching Goes The Money Tree. Time to say enough.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false (https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false)

You do know most over 70s get the flu jab every year anyway don't you??

Sure they won't be needing the flu jab any longer as the flu has mysteriously been eliminated for the first time in living memory. I've read the crazy reasons why from the kool aid drinkers on this forum.

Best of luck with your lethal injection.
Millions of people, including me, seem to be doing okay. If it's a lethal injection someone needs to get their money back.

It's not a one fit all solution. There will be a certain amount that will probably never get an adverse reaction, for others it will be immediate but for the vast majority it could be what is called "slow kill", always dependent on medication, beginning more in the medium to long term. High possibility of autoimmune disease from the reaction to the spike protein.

This f**king nonsense needs banned. This is dangerous. It's up there with hate speech. It's not free speech if it's utter shite.

Seamus you are mentally unwell and you should seek immediate medical help. I wish you well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on March 28, 2021, 10:01:46 AM
Trailer is an absolutely vile poster.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2021, 10:37:03 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 27, 2021, 01:06:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 25, 2021, 06:18:52 PM
Angelo you've been referring to flu's and no flu's recorded, just new variants of Covid.

What do you mean exactly?

Am I too assume from your references that, Covid is just a new flu variant that has mutated to becoming more life threatening to the worldwide and not just in the winter months?

Or that Covid is actually flu and we should have just treated it as such and continued with limited restrictions?
Can you answer theses?
Or Covid is real and not flu at all and with a closed border attitude we could have saved more lives?

You not answering this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on March 28, 2021, 11:32:21 AM
Quote from: lenny on March 28, 2021, 08:56:09 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 04:03:16 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2021, 12:36:16 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 12:14:50 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 27, 2021, 09:49:51 PM
Quote from: Seamus on March 27, 2021, 09:39:39 PM
Just as expect those unapproved experimental injections will go on and on like the Energizer Bunny. Ching Ching Goes The Money Tree. Time to say enough.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false (https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false)

You do know most over 70s get the flu jab every year anyway don't you??

Sure they won't be needing the flu jab any longer as the flu has mysteriously been eliminated for the first time in living memory. I've read the crazy reasons why from the kool aid drinkers on this forum.

Best of luck with your lethal injection.
Millions of people, including me, seem to be doing okay. If it's a lethal injection someone needs to get their money back.

It's not a one fit all solution. There will be a certain amount that will probably never get an adverse reaction, for others it will be immediate but for the vast majority it could be what is called "slow kill", always dependent on medication, beginning more in the medium to long term. High possibility of autoimmune disease from the reaction to the spike protein.

That's interesting Seamus. Can you provide a link to the peer reviewed academic research which backs up your hypothesis.

Lenny, if someone is linking BitChute videos it's a massive red fleg. Avoid avoid avoid. On one level, and I know a couple of folk now so far down that rabbit hole I can't see a way back for them, I actually feel for them. Too much time on their hands and these polished videos coming at them from all corners. On the other hand, the info they are spreading is very damaging. Though, the vaccine travel passport will give many of the these principled anti-vaxx crusaders that gentle nudge.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on March 28, 2021, 11:33:08 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 04:03:16 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2021, 12:36:16 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 12:14:50 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 27, 2021, 09:49:51 PM
Quote from: Seamus on March 27, 2021, 09:39:39 PM
Just as expect those unapproved experimental injections will go on and on like the Energizer Bunny. Ching Ching Goes The Money Tree. Time to say enough.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false (https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false)

You do know most over 70s get the flu jab every year anyway don't you??

Sure they won't be needing the flu jab any longer as the flu has mysteriously been eliminated for the first time in living memory. I've read the crazy reasons why from the kool aid drinkers on this forum.

Best of luck with your lethal injection.
Millions of people, including me, seem to be doing okay. If it's a lethal injection someone needs to get their money back.

It's not a one fit all solution. There will be a certain amount that will probably never get an adverse reaction, for others it will be immediate but for the vast majority it could be what is called "slow kill", always dependent on medication, beginning more in the medium to long term. High possibility of autoimmune disease from the reaction to the spike protein.
Would you call the vaccines "genocide", Seamus?  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2021, 12:15:43 PM
Quote from: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 04:03:16 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2021, 12:36:16 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 12:14:50 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 27, 2021, 09:49:51 PM
Quote from: Seamus on March 27, 2021, 09:39:39 PM
Just as expect those unapproved experimental injections will go on and on like the Energizer Bunny. Ching Ching Goes The Money Tree. Time to say enough.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false (https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false)

You do know most over 70s get the flu jab every year anyway don't you??

Sure they won't be needing the flu jab any longer as the flu has mysteriously been eliminated for the first time in living memory. I've read the crazy reasons why from the kool aid drinkers on this forum.

Best of luck with your lethal injection.
Millions of people, including me, seem to be doing okay. If it's a lethal injection someone needs to get their money back.

It's not a one fit all solution. There will be a certain amount that will probably never get an adverse reaction, for others it will be immediate but for the vast majority it could be what is called "slow kill", always dependent on medication, beginning more in the medium to long term. High possibility of autoimmune disease from the reaction to the spike protein.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 28, 2021, 02:18:07 AM
According to the Sunday Times tomorrow, London is going to offer a load of vaccine to the ROI to give the EU a "poke in the eye".
I'd say this is troublemaking more than anything else, as the UK will have no great surplus for a while.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExhUsnRWQAA4y2f?format=png)
I read on Twitter that an Irish govt "source" said it's the first they have heard of it!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2021, 12:20:24 PM
Quote from: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 04:03:16 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2021, 12:36:16 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 12:14:50 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 27, 2021, 09:49:51 PM
Quote from: Seamus on March 27, 2021, 09:39:39 PM
Just as expect those unapproved experimental injections will go on and on like the Energizer Bunny. Ching Ching Goes The Money Tree. Time to say enough.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false (https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false)

You do know most over 70s get the flu jab every year anyway don't you??

Sure they won't be needing the flu jab any longer as the flu has mysteriously been eliminated for the first time in living memory. I've read the crazy reasons why from the kool aid drinkers on this forum.

Best of luck with your lethal injection.
Millions of people, including me, seem to be doing okay. If it's a lethal injection someone needs to get their money back.

It's not a one fit all solution. There will be a certain amount that will probably never get an adverse reaction, for others it will be immediate but for the vast majority it could be what is called "slow kill", always dependent on medication, beginning more in the medium to long term. High possibility of autoimmune disease from the reaction to the spike protein.
The uptake in the UK appears to indicate that people have rejected all the anti-vaxx and side-effect guff, and have instead accepted the main effect of the vaccine i.e. not dying. Unfortunately the tinfoil hat brigade will have to move on soon to the next "cause'.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on March 28, 2021, 12:57:48 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on March 28, 2021, 11:32:21 AM
Quote from: lenny on March 28, 2021, 08:56:09 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 04:03:16 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 28, 2021, 12:36:16 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 28, 2021, 12:14:50 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 27, 2021, 09:49:51 PM
Quote from: Seamus on March 27, 2021, 09:39:39 PM
Just as expect those unapproved experimental injections will go on and on like the Energizer Bunny. Ching Ching Goes The Money Tree. Time to say enough.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false (https://www.bitchute.com/video/XtV4gBAqLl0y/?list=notifications&randomize=false)

You do know most over 70s get the flu jab every year anyway don't you??

Sure they won't be needing the flu jab any longer as the flu has mysteriously been eliminated for the first time in living memory. I've read the crazy reasons why from the kool aid drinkers on this forum.

Best of luck with your lethal injection.
Millions of people, including me, seem to be doing okay. If it's a lethal injection someone needs to get their money back.

It's not a one fit all solution. There will be a certain amount that will probably never get an adverse reaction, for others it will be immediate but for the vast majority it could be what is called "slow kill", always dependent on medication, beginning more in the medium to long term. High possibility of autoimmune disease from the reaction to the spike protein.

That's interesting Seamus. Can you provide a link to the peer reviewed academic research which backs up your hypothesis.

Lenny, if someone is linking BitChute videos it's a massive red fleg. Avoid avoid avoid. On one level, and I know a couple of folk now so far down that rabbit hole I can't see a way back for them, I actually feel for them. Too much time on their hands and these polished videos coming at them from all corners. On the other hand, the info they are spreading is very damaging. Though, the vaccine travel passport will give many of the these principled anti-vaxx crusaders that gentle nudge.

My post was tongue in cheek because I know for sure that there are zero peer reviewed scientific papers to back up one word of the complete garbage that he posts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on March 28, 2021, 05:54:21 PM
ROI weekly update.

Cases 3992 (128 more cases than last week but worth nothing from over 20,000 extra tests)

Reported Deaths 81 (25 more than last week)

In hospital 322 (38 fewer than last week)

66 in ICU (16 fewer than last Sunday)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on March 28, 2021, 06:28:08 PM
Let's hope the Hospital figures don't start rising following the number of cases.
If cases are in the younger cohorts hospital numbers may stay relatively low.
Whats going on in Biffoland?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 28, 2021, 06:50:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 28, 2021, 06:28:08 PM
Let's hope the Hospital figures don't start rising following the number of cases.
If cases are in the younger cohorts hospital numbers may stay relatively low.
Whats going on in Biffoland?


You normally post that information
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on March 28, 2021, 07:22:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 28, 2021, 06:28:08 PM
Let's hope the Hospital figures don't start rising following the number of cases.
If cases are in the younger cohorts hospital numbers may stay relatively low.
Whats going on in Biffoland?

Probably a Meat factory outbreak that spread into the community.

A number of counties are doing really well. Cork with their population with just 230 cases in the last two weeks the stand out.  Sligo, Leitrim, Kilkenny, Kerry, Monaghan with just  192 cases between them the last fortnight.

Small easing of the restrictions is what is expected from the government/nphet next week leaving us with strict restrictions up to at least mid May.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 29, 2021, 12:54:08 PM
What is the story with these ppl leaving the Mandatory quarantine? How can they just leave?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 29, 2021, 01:53:00 PM
Doesn't sound very mandatory
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 29, 2021, 03:55:22 PM
The defence forces and Private Security I think have powers to monitor compliance at the quarantine hotels.

But they have no power to stop people leaving....(i.e. The Guards are notified instead).

So that's where that one is. Not exactly iron clad. People just don't care.....you are going to encounter a small minority that have no interest in decency and doing the right thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Estimator on March 30, 2021, 12:15:21 PM
It's looking like there are going to be no prosecutions in the Bobby Storey funeral investigation... Where does that leave all those that have been prosecuted/fined etc during the last 12months?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 30, 2021, 12:17:08 PM
You could say the same about several other events too tbh. It has not been applied consistently at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 12:28:00 PM
Quote from: Estimator on March 30, 2021, 12:15:21 PM
It's looking like there are going to be no prosecutions in the Bobby Storey funeral investigation... Where does that leave all those that have been prosecuted/fined etc during the last 12months?
Good stuff. Hope they leave poor Fiona O'Donohue and the rest who were out with her alone too!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 30, 2021, 12:31:29 PM
For the purposes of this thread, it's good there has been no spike since the Rangers Fans taking the streets some time ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on March 30, 2021, 12:33:07 PM
200m doses of Johnson & Johnson "one shot" vaccine due in Europe in second half of April. Should speed things up a bit
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 12:37:42 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 30, 2021, 12:33:07 PM
200m doses of Johnson & Johnson "one shot" vaccine due in Europe in second half of April. Should speed things up a bit
Brilliant. Moderna due to start in UK in April as well isn't it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 12:38:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 30, 2021, 12:31:29 PM
For the purposes of this thread, it's good there has been no spike since the Rangers Fans taking the streets some time ago.
Thank god!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 30, 2021, 01:48:39 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 30, 2021, 12:33:07 PM
200m doses of Johnson & Johnson "one shot" vaccine due in Europe in second half of April. Should speed things up a bit

These will ramp up,, there will be more in June than April and May put together.
By June the existing providers (Pfizer, Moderna, AZ) should have doubled their volumes, each of these had an additional factory approved last week, plus these additional J&J and another boost when Curevac comes on stream. So in June they'll be vaccinating all the hours of daylight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 30, 2021, 02:19:33 PM
5 deaths up north today. That's more than in a long long time. Cases still seem to have flattened off round the 180 mark.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 02:19:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 30, 2021, 01:48:39 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 30, 2021, 12:33:07 PM
200m doses of Johnson & Johnson "one shot" vaccine due in Europe in second half of April. Should speed things up a bit

These will ramp up,, there will be more in June than April and May put together.
By June the existing providers (Pfizer, Moderna, AZ) should have doubled their volumes, each of these had an additional factory approved last week, plus these additional J&J and another boost when Curevac comes on stream. So in June they'll be vaccinating all the hours of daylight.
We might get a twelfth this year!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on March 30, 2021, 02:39:40 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 02:19:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 30, 2021, 01:48:39 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 30, 2021, 12:33:07 PM
200m doses of Johnson & Johnson "one shot" vaccine due in Europe in second half of April. Should speed things up a bit

These will ramp up,, there will be more in June than April and May put together.
By June the existing providers (Pfizer, Moderna, AZ) should have doubled their volumes, each of these had an additional factory approved last week, plus these additional J&J and another boost when Curevac comes on stream. So in June they'll be vaccinating all the hours of daylight.
We might get a twelfth this year!!

I think going by the Neanderthals involved, and the recent Pitt Park and PPS decisions - we'll be having a twelth regardless of the vaccine roll out success.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 30, 2021, 02:42:42 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on March 30, 2021, 02:39:40 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 02:19:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 30, 2021, 01:48:39 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 30, 2021, 12:33:07 PM
200m doses of Johnson & Johnson "one shot" vaccine due in Europe in second half of April. Should speed things up a bit

These will ramp up,, there will be more in June than April and May put together.
By June the existing providers (Pfizer, Moderna, AZ) should have doubled their volumes, each of these had an additional factory approved last week, plus these additional J&J and another boost when Curevac comes on stream. So in June they'll be vaccinating all the hours of daylight.
We might get a twelfth this year!!

I think going by the Neanderthals involved, and the recent Pitt Park and PPS decisions - we'll be having a twelth regardless of the vaccine roll out success.

PPS and Police have only themselves to blame.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 30, 2021, 02:47:21 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 02:19:46 PM
We might get a twelfth this year!!

A lot of lodges are well spaced out nowadays anyway.
Going about on buses and so forth wouldn't be good plan.

(https://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/03/03/61/3036126_1dda6940.jpg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on March 30, 2021, 02:50:24 PM
I'd be absolutely delighted to see a full on 12th this year to be honest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 02:54:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on March 30, 2021, 02:50:24 PM
I'd be absolutely delighted to see a full on 12th this year to be honest.
Surely there will be enough vaccinated by then to allow it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 06:25:39 PM
Lockdown until the least the end of July? These politicians are an absolute disgrace
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on March 30, 2021, 06:29:22 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 30, 2021, 06:25:39 PM
Lockdown until the least the end of July? These politicians are an absolute disgrace
ROI? Just watched Miceal Martin and tbh it's not a big pile different from NI or the UK. Guilty of poor messaging more than anything imo.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 31, 2021, 07:32:02 PM
France closing schools again. Europe is in a bad bad way. Yet some people think vaccines aren't safe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Kidder81 on March 31, 2021, 07:34:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 07:32:02 PM
France closing schools again. Europe is in a bad bad way. Yet some people think vaccines aren't safe.

People think Johnson has handled this badly? Macron wants you to hold his beer
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on March 31, 2021, 07:48:27 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 31, 2021, 07:34:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on March 31, 2021, 07:32:02 PM
France closing schools again. Europe is in a bad bad way. Yet some people think vaccines aren't safe.

People think Johnson has handled this badly? Macron wants you to hold his beer

Their 7 day rolling average is approx 30k and rising the UKs is 4k and falling. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on April 01, 2021, 08:08:29 AM
Massive study this morning in a few papers saying that 1 out of 3 covid patients are readmitted to hospital within 4 months of getting out. i've read before that 1 every 2 of these then go on to die. Also in the study is the fact that 1 in 8 covid patients die within 4 months of getting out of hospital. That's a huge number of people and none of them have been included in the deaths from covid statistics.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 01, 2021, 05:24:19 PM
761 cases in the 26 today  :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on April 01, 2021, 06:14:56 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 01, 2021, 08:08:29 AM
Massive study this morning in a few papers saying that 1 out of 3 covid patients are readmitted to hospital within 4 months of getting out. i've read before that 1 every 2 of these then go on to die. Also in the study is the fact that 1 in 8 covid patients die within 4 months of getting out of hospital. That's a huge number of people and none of them have been included in the deaths from covid statistics.

I think you probably step back and try to relate these figures back to people you know. It won't bear any resemblance to any scenario you've encountered

And then you might want to ponder what they mean by "patient".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 01, 2021, 06:23:26 PM
I do wonder if that's ICU only?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on April 01, 2021, 06:28:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2021, 05:24:19 PM
761 cases in the 26 today  :-\

Yesterday was under reported with 411 cases so today's number includes about 200 of yesterdays cases.

7-day average lower than last Thursday  556 v  569.  Lowest number in hospital since Christmas with 274 it peaked at 2020 in January.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on April 03, 2021, 03:12:30 AM
Let the numbers do the talking, directly from one of the "expert's" very own website, the infamous CDC.

The number of US deaths related to vaccines in 2021 in less than 3 months totals 2,240, an increase of 295 over the previous seven days, which is over twice the number of deaths that were recorded over the past decade, with a total of 994 deaths. This already is well over 70 times the average for the past decade.

Of the 2,249 deaths reported as of March 26, 28% occurred within 48 hours of vaccination, 19% occurred within 24 hours.

https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes
(https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes)
Not surprising Moderna and Pfizer/Biontech with over 1,000 vaccine related deaths each as they are the longest with Emergency Use Authorization.


Over the same period of time 7,726 serious injuries (911 permanent) out of 50,861 were reported to VAERS. An increase of 631 serious injuries over the previous week. .

https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&SERIOUS=ON
(https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&SERIOUS=ON)

VAERS traditionally report on just 1% injuries and deaths, with the COVID vaccine I would expect reporting to be a good percentage higher but still not all cases reported.

Unfortunately after reading the above reports cognitive dissonance will set in for the majority and the deaths and injuries will continue to mount up. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 03, 2021, 08:52:14 AM
Cases should not be the driving force here any longer. Hospital admissions are away down. The numbers in hospital are dropping say 5 per day overall which is very encouraging
A lot of scaremongering amongst BBC and RTE reporters. I would say that they would have got a bit of fame out of this pandemic that they never would have. RTE news ratings apparently through the roof
It sells to be negative
The north wil have double figures in hospital today
Also deaths are at 1 every 2 days
Celebrity McBride and Robbie Swann swarmed by paparazzi as the received the vaccine
I would say they can't believe the publicity the are getting
Stop the scaremongering lads
What does Milly think
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 03, 2021, 09:31:07 AM
The pandemic has actually reduce news, a client of mine was telling me her husband took early retirement because there were less stories to report, with the likes of the courts being closed and not as many people on y to be streets roads and in pubs there has been far less reporting of ordinary crimes.

As for the vaccine Seamus, don't take, I don't know anyone who's had a 'life threatening' experience since they took it, the worst being my mum who felt floored for a day. She's getting her second next week.

As for the numbers, just look at the numbers worldwide on Covid deaths and long term illnesses that have come from it, ask their families what choice would they go for? The vaccine death or illnesses
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on April 03, 2021, 10:25:51 AM
A lot of scaremongering amongst gaaboard reporters/contributors. I would say that they would have got a bit of fame out of this pandemic that they never would have. Milltown row2 aka Milly mentions apparently through the roof
It sells to be negative
The north wil have double figures in hospital today
Also deaths are at 1 every 2 days
Gaabaord celebrity Milly swarmed by paparazzi (Smufy123) as they comment on the vaccine
I would say they can't believe the publicity the are getting
Stop the scaremongering lads
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on April 03, 2021, 10:34:14 AM
Quote from: Seamus on April 03, 2021, 03:12:30 AM
Let the numbers do the talking, directly from one of the "expert's" very own website, the infamous CDC.

The number of US deaths related to vaccines in 2021 in less than 3 months totals 2,240, an increase of 295 over the previous seven days, which is over twice the number of deaths that were recorded over the past decade, with a total of 994 deaths. This already is well over 70 times the average for the past decade.

Of the 2,249 deaths reported as of March 26, 28% occurred within 48 hours of vaccination, 19% occurred within 24 hours.

https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes
(https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes)
Not surprising Moderna and Pfizer/Biontech with over 1,000 vaccine related deaths each as they are the longest with Emergency Use Authorization.


Over the same period of time 7,726 serious injuries (911 permanent) out of 50,861 were reported to VAERS. An increase of 631 serious injuries over the previous week. .

https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&SERIOUS=ON
(https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&SERIOUS=ON)

VAERS traditionally report on just 1% injuries and deaths, with the COVID vaccine I would expect reporting to be a good percentage higher but still not all cases reported.

Unfortunately after reading the above reports cognitive dissonance will set in for the majority and the deaths and injuries will continue to mount up.

Thanks for that link Seamus. Very interesting figures. They prove that taking the vaccine is thousands of times safer than getting covid-19. Glad to see you've come round to the safety and efficacy of the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 03, 2021, 11:09:19 AM
Quote from: Seamus on April 03, 2021, 03:12:30 AM
Let the numbers do the talking, directly from one of the "expert's" very own website, the infamous CDC.

The number of US deaths related to vaccines in 2021 in less than 3 months totals 2,240, an increase of 295 over the previous seven days, which is over twice the number of deaths that were recorded over the past decade, with a total of 994 deaths. This already is well over 70 times the average for the past decade.

Of the 2,249 deaths reported as of March 26, 28% occurred within 48 hours of vaccination, 19% occurred within 24 hours.

https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes
(https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes)
Not surprising Moderna and Pfizer/Biontech with over 1,000 vaccine related deaths each as they are the longest with Emergency Use Authorization.


Over the same period of time 7,726 serious injuries (911 permanent) out of 50,861 were reported to VAERS. An increase of 631 serious injuries over the previous week. .

https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&SERIOUS=ON
(https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&SERIOUS=ON)

VAERS traditionally report on just 1% injuries and deaths, with the COVID vaccine I would expect reporting to be a good percentage higher but still not all cases reported.

Unfortunately after reading the above reports cognitive dissonance will set in for the majority and the deaths and injuries will continue to mount up.
Er would that not be as expected? Increase the amount of vaccines = increase in reactions/ deaths to vaccines. I'm sure I must be missing something.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 04, 2021, 07:46:06 AM
Nice one php
Great read
The north's numbers are very good at present
What is the hold up from the executive
They meet every Monday and Thursday which in itself is shocking
And not meeting until the 15th to see what is the next stage to be lifted
What's the hold up
If furlough wasn't around we would have uproar
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 09:03:40 AM
Cases fall and rise regardless of lockdowns.

You look at the likes of South Africa, India and Sweden who have not engaged in draconian lockdowns since last summer. How much worse have they fared than countries like Germany, Italy and France who have had draconian lockdowns in that time?

Probably better if truth be told.

Eventually the slow learners will realise this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 09:33:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 09:03:40 AM
Cases fall and rise regardless of lockdowns.

You look at the likes of South Africa, India and Sweden who have not engaged in draconian lockdowns since last summer. How much worse have they fared than countries like Germany, Italy and France who have had draconian lockdowns in that time?

Probably better if truth be told.

Eventually the slow learners will realise this.

Are they rising in the north? The only thing rising in the North is vaccinated people.

Vaccine roll out in Germany/France is slow, numbers are high, let's see when they have rolled out big numbers with the vaccine.

But you'd rather no lockdowns and no vaccine, talk about a slow learner
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 09:46:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 09:33:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 09:03:40 AM
Cases fall and rise regardless of lockdowns.

You look at the likes of South Africa, India and Sweden who have not engaged in draconian lockdowns since last summer. How much worse have they fared than countries like Germany, Italy and France who have had draconian lockdowns in that time?

Probably better if truth be told.

Eventually the slow learners will realise this.

Are they rising in the north? The only thing rising in the North is vaccinated people.

Vaccine roll out in Germany/France is slow, numbers are high, let's see when they have rolled out big numbers with the vaccine.

But you'd rather no lockdowns and no vaccine, talk about a slow learner

I'm not against vaccines but I'd be very wary of them myself. If I was in an at risk category I would certainly be willing to take it as the benefits outweigh the risks but for my demograph there is no upside to it and the AZ one in particular would likely seem more dangerous than anything.

According to this I have a 1 in 167,000 chance of dying from Covid and a 1 in 5,500 chance of being hospitalised. I haven't tested positive for Covid in a year of its existence or maybe I've had it without knowing.

https://qcovid.org/Home/AcademicLicence?licencedUrl=%2FCalculation

Vaccinate the vulnerable groupings and get on with it.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 04, 2021, 09:49:09 AM
I think in time some decisions that were made will look appalling
Rte draconian nature of some stuff uncalled for
Primary schools now back 1 month and nothing in the slightest of a rise in cases. Primary schools if nothing else should have stayed open
Outdoor activities should have continued
Cafes and retail should have continued
Let's be real here the spike in both waves coincided with pubs and restaurants opening
Other than that we had a consistent stream of cases
I still maintain that it's seasonal also
13 months into this pandemic they have decided to open walk in testing clinics in the South. Why?
Looking for cases
I'll leave you with this
12000 tested yesterday in the North with 80 positive and no hospitalisation needed
End this madness
And still a further 2 weeks before they even discuss what to open next
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 09:55:55 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 04, 2021, 09:49:09 AM
I think in time some decisions that were made will look appalling
Rte draconian nature of some stuff uncalled for
Primary schools now back 1 month and nothing in the slightest of a rise in cases. Primary schools if nothing else should have stayed open
Outdoor activities should have continued
Cafes and retail should have continued
Let's be real here the spike in both waves coincided with pubs and restaurants opening
Other than that we had a consistent stream of cases
I still maintain that it's seasonal also
13 months into this pandemic they have decided to open walk in testing clinics in the South. Why?
Looking for cases
I'll leave you with this
12000 tested yesterday in the North with 80 positive and no hospitalisation needed
End this madness
And still a further 2 weeks before they even discuss what to open next

What seasons do you go by?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 09:59:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 09:46:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 09:33:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 09:03:40 AM
Cases fall and rise regardless of lockdowns.

You look at the likes of South Africa, India and Sweden who have not engaged in draconian lockdowns since last summer. How much worse have they fared than countries like Germany, Italy and France who have had draconian lockdowns in that time?

Probably better if truth be told.

Eventually the slow learners will realise this.

Are they rising in the north? The only thing rising in the North is vaccinated people.

Vaccine roll out in Germany/France is slow, numbers are high, let's see when they have rolled out big numbers with the vaccine.

But you'd rather no lockdowns and no vaccine, talk about a slow learner

I'm not against vaccines but I'd be very wary of them myself. If I was in an at risk category I would certainly be willing to take it as the benefits outweigh the risks but for my demograph there is no upside to it and the AZ one in particular would likely seem more dangerous than anything.

According to this I have a 1 in 167,000 chance of dying from Covid and a 1 in 5,500 chance of being hospitalised. I haven't tested positive for Covid in a year of its existence or maybe I've had it without knowing.

https://qcovid.org/Home/AcademicLicence?licencedUrl=%2FCalculation

Vaccinate the vulnerable groupings and get on with it.

What's the odds of you catching Covid and spreading it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 04, 2021, 10:03:23 AM
The flu season that one
Ya know the people that really starts coming to the fore from November right through to March and then dies down to very manageable cases throughout the rest of the year
Although we will never stop flu cases in ye summer months but we just get on with it
That season
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 04, 2021, 10:10:14 AM
Why are France in another lockdown then if it's seasonal? Our numbers went down during the harshest parts of winter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 10:16:01 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 09:59:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 09:46:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 09:33:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 09:03:40 AM
Cases fall and rise regardless of lockdowns.

You look at the likes of South Africa, India and Sweden who have not engaged in draconian lockdowns since last summer. How much worse have they fared than countries like Germany, Italy and France who have had draconian lockdowns in that time?

Probably better if truth be told.

Eventually the slow learners will realise this.

Are they rising in the north? The only thing rising in the North is vaccinated people.

Vaccine roll out in Germany/France is slow, numbers are high, let's see when they have rolled out big numbers with the vaccine.

But you'd rather no lockdowns and no vaccine, talk about a slow learner

I'm not against vaccines but I'd be very wary of them myself. If I was in an at risk category I would certainly be willing to take it as the benefits outweigh the risks but for my demograph there is no upside to it and the AZ one in particular would likely seem more dangerous than anything.

According to this I have a 1 in 167,000 chance of dying from Covid and a 1 in 5,500 chance of being hospitalised. I haven't tested positive for Covid in a year of its existence or maybe I've had it without knowing.

https://qcovid.org/Home/AcademicLicence?licencedUrl=%2FCalculation

Vaccinate the vulnerable groupings and get on with it.

What's the odds of you catching Covid and spreading it?

I haven't got it a year in.

Asymptomatically - probably the same as a vaccinated person as you generally wouldn't know you'd have it.

Symptomatically I would do my isolation period so again probably the same as a vaccinated person.

So I would say there would be little difference really.

As for the odds of me catching Covid. I haven't caught it yet that I know of.

You also seem to ignore the fact that evidence says vaccines do not stop contraction and transmission of Covid. They merely serve to reduce the level of severity of the virus on you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 04, 2021, 10:18:25 AM
There wasn't 1 single flu recorded this year. Do you not think the positive covid cases were in fact a flu?
Why didn't our cases go through the roof when we opened up in June last year? We had affectively every single thing open in June July august and September?
Work that one out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 10:33:37 AM
So you think Covid is flu?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 10:34:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 04, 2021, 10:18:25 AM
There wasn't 1 single flu recorded this year. Do you not think the positive covid cases were in fact a flu?
Why didn't our cases go through the roof when we opened up in June last year? We had affectively every single thing open in June July august and September?
Work that one out

The lads who bang the drum about lockdowns working were all held back in the slow learners class.

The penny might eventually drop.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 10:35:52 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 10:16:01 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 09:59:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 09:46:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 09:33:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 09:03:40 AM
Cases fall and rise regardless of lockdowns.

You look at the likes of South Africa, India and Sweden who have not engaged in draconian lockdowns since last summer. How much worse have they fared than countries like Germany, Italy and France who have had draconian lockdowns in that time?

Probably better if truth be told.

Eventually the slow learners will realise this.

Are they rising in the north? The only thing rising in the North is vaccinated people.

Vaccine roll out in Germany/France is slow, numbers are high, let's see when they have rolled out big numbers with the vaccine.

But you'd rather no lockdowns and no vaccine, talk about a slow learner

I'm not against vaccines but I'd be very wary of them myself. If I was in an at risk category I would certainly be willing to take it as the benefits outweigh the risks but for my demograph there is no upside to it and the AZ one in particular would likely seem more dangerous than anything.

According to this I have a 1 in 167,000 chance of dying from Covid and a 1 in 5,500 chance of being hospitalised. I haven't tested positive for Covid in a year of its existence or maybe I've had it without knowing.

https://qcovid.org/Home/AcademicLicence?licencedUrl=%2FCalculation

Vaccinate the vulnerable groupings and get on with it.

What's the odds of you catching Covid and spreading it?

I haven't got it a year in.

Asymptomatically - probably the same as a vaccinated person as you generally wouldn't know you'd have it.

Symptomatically I would do my isolation period so again probably the same as a vaccinated person.

So I would say there would be little difference really.

As for the odds of me catching Covid. I haven't caught it yet that I know of.

You also seem to ignore the fact that evidence says vaccines do not stop contraction and transmission of Covid. They merely serve to reduce the level of severity of the virus on you.

So with all those odds you've used and links you've put up you can't give me odds on spreading it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on April 04, 2021, 11:04:26 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 04, 2021, 10:18:25 AM
There wasn't 1 single flu recorded this year. Do you not think the positive covid cases were in fact a flu?
Why didn't our cases go through the roof when we opened up in June last year? We had affectively every single thing open in June July august and September?
Work that one out

So you're saying the medical professionals don't know the difference between flu and Covid?

I know the NHS/HSE have their problems, but I didn't realise they have staff working for them that don't know what they're doing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 11:51:09 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 10:35:52 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 10:16:01 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 09:59:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 09:46:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 09:33:36 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 09:03:40 AM
Cases fall and rise regardless of lockdowns.

You look at the likes of South Africa, India and Sweden who have not engaged in draconian lockdowns since last summer. How much worse have they fared than countries like Germany, Italy and France who have had draconian lockdowns in that time?

Probably better if truth be told.

Eventually the slow learners will realise this.

Are they rising in the north? The only thing rising in the North is vaccinated people.

Vaccine roll out in Germany/France is slow, numbers are high, let's see when they have rolled out big numbers with the vaccine.

But you'd rather no lockdowns and no vaccine, talk about a slow learner

I'm not against vaccines but I'd be very wary of them myself. If I was in an at risk category I would certainly be willing to take it as the benefits outweigh the risks but for my demograph there is no upside to it and the AZ one in particular would likely seem more dangerous than anything.

According to this I have a 1 in 167,000 chance of dying from Covid and a 1 in 5,500 chance of being hospitalised. I haven't tested positive for Covid in a year of its existence or maybe I've had it without knowing.

https://qcovid.org/Home/AcademicLicence?licencedUrl=%2FCalculation

Vaccinate the vulnerable groupings and get on with it.

What's the odds of you catching Covid and spreading it?

I haven't got it a year in.

Asymptomatically - probably the same as a vaccinated person as you generally wouldn't know you'd have it.

Symptomatically I would do my isolation period so again probably the same as a vaccinated person.

So I would say there would be little difference really.

As for the odds of me catching Covid. I haven't caught it yet that I know of.

You also seem to ignore the fact that evidence says vaccines do not stop contraction and transmission of Covid. They merely serve to reduce the level of severity of the virus on you.

So with all those odds you've used and links you've put up you can't give me odds on spreading it?

I can't spread if I don't get it.

Getting the vaccine neither stops me from contracting it or transmitting it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 12:07:34 PM
How do you know you haven't had it and then give it to someone?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 04, 2021, 12:15:28 PM
Really had enough of this all now. After the fiasco of last night. Basically you can do what you want criminally now but the rest of us can do nothing that try to abide by the rules.

Embarrasing scenes in the North last night. People were willing to look past the Rangers thing, can't see the message being heeded any longer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 12:18:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 10:34:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 04, 2021, 10:18:25 AM
There wasn't 1 single flu recorded this year. Do you not think the positive covid cases were in fact a flu?
Why didn't our cases go through the roof when we opened up in June last year? We had affectively every single thing open in June July august and September?
Work that one out

The lads who bang the drum about lockdowns working were all held back in the slow learners class.

The penny might eventually drop.

Angelo you've been referring to flu's and no flu's recorded, just new variants of Covid.

What do you mean exactly?

Am I too assume from your references that, Covid is just a new flu variant that has mutated to becoming more life threatening to the worldwide and not just in the winter months?

Or that Covid is actually flu and we should have just treated it as such and continued with limited restrictions?
Or Covid is real and not flu at all and with a closed border attitude we could have saved more lives?

Plus seasonally,  is it just in the winter months that it's worse or do we take in Autumn and Spring? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 04, 2021, 12:20:39 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 04, 2021, 10:18:25 AM
There wasn't 1 single flu recorded this year. Do you not think the positive covid cases were in fact a flu?
Why didn't our cases go through the roof when we opened up in June last year? We had affectively every single thing open in June July august and September?
Work that one out

1. No
2. Don't know. Variants a factor I imagine but I don't know the answer and tbh not too many do.
3. No we didn't. Restaurants limited, many working from home, bars limited, how many packed stadiums did you see? The list goes on and on there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 12:23:20 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 04, 2021, 12:15:28 PM
Really had enough of this all now. After the fiasco of last night. Basically you can do what you want criminally now but the rest of us can do nothing that try to abide by the rules.

Embarrasing scenes in the North last night. People were willing to look past the Rangers thing, can't see the message being heeded any longer.

There has been loads of protests, last nights was just another example of people not giving a shit, but opening the pubs won't make it any better.

I'd open today if there was to be no more lockdowns. Can you guarantee that the admissions will continue to fall if we open up?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 12:34:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 12:18:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 10:34:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 04, 2021, 10:18:25 AM
There wasn't 1 single flu recorded this year. Do you not think the positive covid cases were in fact a flu?
Why didn't our cases go through the roof when we opened up in June last year? We had affectively every single thing open in June July august and September?
Work that one out

The lads who bang the drum about lockdowns working were all held back in the slow learners class.

The penny might eventually drop.

Angelo you've been referring to flu's and no flu's recorded, just new variants of Covid.

What do you mean exactly?

Am I too assume from your references that, Covid is just a new flu variant that has mutated to becoming more life threatening to the worldwide and not just in the winter months?

Or that Covid is actually flu and we should have just treated it as such and continued with limited restrictions?
Or Covid is real and not flu at all and with a closed border attitude we could have saved more lives?

Plus seasonally,  is it just in the winter months that it's worse or do we take in Autumn and Spring?

You want to rehash this debate all over again?

The data proves that lockdowns are a blunt and ineffectual measure to manage Covid. They are neither practical or sustainable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 04, 2021, 12:52:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 12:23:20 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 04, 2021, 12:15:28 PM
Really had enough of this all now. After the fiasco of last night. Basically you can do what you want criminally now but the rest of us can do nothing that try to abide by the rules.

Embarrasing scenes in the North last night. People were willing to look past the Rangers thing, can't see the message being heeded any longer.

There has been loads of protests, last nights was just another example of people not giving a shit, but opening the pubs won't make it any better.

I'd open today if there was to be no more lockdowns. Can you guarantee that the admissions will continue to fall if we open up?

Of course not, but to the normal regular man on the street who is sitting in the house bored stupid this 4 months can you justify it anymore when this nonsense goes unpunished as if its acceptable?

I know a couple turned away by the PSNI there on Friday from somewhere as a non essential trip.....it's becoming very tiring now when you see them 100 metres away letting people literally run riot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 04, 2021, 01:01:17 PM
They do need to start opening more stuff up and more importantly giving a plan to businesses to do so. The numbers are not going to get that much lower.  Gradually yes but action is needed. Just don't go mad like Christmas and open everything and have a week "off".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 01:51:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 12:34:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 12:18:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 10:34:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 04, 2021, 10:18:25 AM
There wasn't 1 single flu recorded this year. Do you not think the positive covid cases were in fact a flu?
Why didn't our cases go through the roof when we opened up in June last year? We had affectively every single thing open in June July august and September?
Work that one out

The lads who bang the drum about lockdowns working were all held back in the slow learners class.

The penny might eventually drop.

Angelo you've been referring to flu's and no flu's recorded, just new variants of Covid.

What do you mean exactly?

Am I too assume from your references that, Covid is just a new flu variant that has mutated to becoming more life threatening to the worldwide and not just in the winter months?

Or that Covid is actually flu and we should have just treated it as such and continued with limited restrictions?
Or Covid is real and not flu at all and with a closed border attitude we could have saved more lives?

Plus seasonally,  is it just in the winter months that it's worse or do we take in Autumn and Spring?

You want to rehash this debate all over again?

The data proves that lockdowns are a blunt and ineffectual measure to manage Covid. They are neither practical or sustainable.

So why is France using these blunt measures to shut everything down during this third wave they are having?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 02:02:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 01:51:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 12:34:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 12:18:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 10:34:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 04, 2021, 10:18:25 AM
There wasn't 1 single flu recorded this year. Do you not think the positive covid cases were in fact a flu?
Why didn't our cases go through the roof when we opened up in June last year? We had affectively every single thing open in June July august and September?
Work that one out

The lads who bang the drum about lockdowns working were all held back in the slow learners class.

The penny might eventually drop.

Angelo you've been referring to flu's and no flu's recorded, just new variants of Covid.

What do you mean exactly?

Am I too assume from your references that, Covid is just a new flu variant that has mutated to becoming more life threatening to the worldwide and not just in the winter months?

Or that Covid is actually flu and we should have just treated it as such and continued with limited restrictions?
Or Covid is real and not flu at all and with a closed border attitude we could have saved more lives?

Plus seasonally,  is it just in the winter months that it's worse or do we take in Autumn and Spring?

You want to rehash this debate all over again?

The data proves that lockdowns are a blunt and ineffectual measure to manage Covid. They are neither practical or sustainable.

So why is France using these blunt measures to shut everything down during this third wave they are having?

Because they are idiots.

It's a failed strategy that has not worked for them on three previous occasions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 04, 2021, 02:05:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 01:51:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 12:34:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 12:18:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 10:34:31 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 04, 2021, 10:18:25 AM
There wasn't 1 single flu recorded this year. Do you not think the positive covid cases were in fact a flu?
Why didn't our cases go through the roof when we opened up in June last year? We had affectively every single thing open in June July august and September?
Work that one out

The lads who bang the drum about lockdowns working were all held back in the slow learners class.

The penny might eventually drop.

Angelo you've been referring to flu's and no flu's recorded, just new variants of Covid.

What do you mean exactly?

Am I too assume from your references that, Covid is just a new flu variant that has mutated to becoming more life threatening to the worldwide and not just in the winter months?

Or that Covid is actually flu and we should have just treated it as such and continued with limited restrictions?
Or Covid is real and not flu at all and with a closed border attitude we could have saved more lives?

Plus seasonally,  is it just in the winter months that it's worse or do we take in Autumn and Spring?

You want to rehash this debate all over again?

The data proves that lockdowns are a blunt and ineffectual measure to manage Covid. They are neither practical or sustainable.

So why is France using these blunt measures to shut everything down during this third wave they are having?

The EU vaccine rollout has been atrocious
The bigger risk, however, is a new variant emerging from a poor part of the world with sloppy monitoring of Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on April 04, 2021, 02:07:58 PM
Very good news from the US this week, with a study showing the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines not only stop the development of symptoms, but they are 90% effective at stopping people getting infected at all. This is brilliant in terms of stopping all spreading of the disease.

Less good is what's going on in Brazil. Half of their patients in ICU are in their 20s, 30s and 40s. It seems the Brazilian P1 variant is much more severe to young people than previous variants. It's in Ireland but in low numbers so far, so very important to keep it that way.

I really don't see the sense in asking 1st to 4th years return to school at this stage. I'm all for easing restrictions for outdoor activity, but I'd leave it another number of weeks until we ease indoor activities. In Dublin especially.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 04, 2021, 02:18:42 PM
That is good. I still do think that a significant factor in spikes round December, January, February was variants - more the London one- and spreading like wildfire. Lessons need to be learned for the Brazilian one and people coming from Brazil should definitely have to be quarantined.

The vaccine is no doubt having an impact but younger generations haven't got it so surely it is not just the vaccine making things better?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 04, 2021, 03:52:06 PM
The system is no good unless the weakest part is strong. That goes for corner backs as well as pandemics. Covid mutates and vaccines may not be able to defend against the mutations.
This thing could persist for several more years.

I miss hurling league finals on Easter Sunday. We are not in business as usual.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on April 04, 2021, 04:20:18 PM
ROI weekly update. Good progress all round.

Cases 3638 (354 fewer than last week)
Reported deaths 52 ( 29 fewer than last week)

In hospital 242 (80 fewer than a week ago)
In ICU 58 (8 fewer than last Sunday)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 04, 2021, 04:35:11 PM
It is noticeable that the 6 counties have ramped up their testing, while still finding fewer people. The walk in testing centres in the hotpots in the 26 counties likewise keep the testing up nad help mop up clusters.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 04, 2021, 04:57:55 PM
Yeah it is good to see a significant increase in testing definitely. Cases down and testing up is great to see.

SF corner backs are well protected by blanket defenses these days :D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 04, 2021, 05:54:56 PM
I will tell you this now. If we had no furlough life would have been back to normal a long time ago and the daily updates would be scrapped
Why can u not answer me?
Why have we had not 1 flu this year?
Not 1
Michael Martin had an event on December 19th with at least 30 in attendance where masks were mandatory at the time and indoor events were forbidden but yet he gets away with it
They are taking the piss at this stage both north and south
O Neill attends a funeral with thousands but the general public can
Wise up Milly
Enough is enough
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 05:56:07 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 04, 2021, 05:54:56 PM
I will tell you this now. If we had no furlough life would have been back to normal a long time ago and the daily updates would be scrapped
Why can u not answer me?
Why have we had not 1 flu this year?
Not 1
Michael Martin had an event on December 19th with at least 30 in attendance where masks were mandatory at the time and indoor events were forbidden but yet he gets away with it
They are taking the piss at this stage both north and south
O Neill attends a funeral with thousands but the general public can
Wise up Milly
Enough is enough

So is it flu or Covid?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 04, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
For anyone doubting that variants are a thing Tory mp David Davis said today in an interview that variants are "biological nonsense "  ;D (that's Davis the great brexit negotiator  ;D).

Milly had the flu. Sure he said that. Do you mean not one died? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 04, 2021, 06:10:49 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 04, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
For anyone doubting that variants are a thing Tory mp David Davis said today in an interview that variants are "biological nonsense "  ;D (that's Davis the great brexit negotiator  ;D).

Milly had the flu. Sure he said that. Do you mean not one died?

I don't know about the flu but he's giving me a sore head.

My take on the low numbers on flu are simple, there has been minimal flights, we have been in lockdowns, we've stopped meeting people indoors, we have been sanitising relentlessly, and the flu jab.

Now I'm no expert but if these measures were introduced in the seasonal period of the flu we'd have lesser numbers of people dying of flu
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 04, 2021, 06:15:29 PM
Also if they were catching all flus as COVID then I would suspect someone much smarter than anybody on this forum(even you know who heaven forbid) would maybe have noticed and done something about it by now...

It is a startling stat to be fair but it is definitely one being jumped on by conspiracy nonsense when the people spouting nonsense about it are unlikely to know anything about it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on April 04, 2021, 07:32:25 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 04, 2021, 04:20:18 PM


In hospital 242 (80 fewer than a week ago)
In ICU 58 (8 fewer than last Sunday)
Good news. Will improve next week too I'd bet with the schools off and we're inching towards competency in vaccine rollout.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on April 04, 2021, 07:39:41 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 03, 2021, 10:34:14 AM
Quote from: Seamus on April 03, 2021, 03:12:30 AM
Let the numbers do the talking, directly from one of the "expert's" very own website, the infamous CDC.

The number of US deaths related to vaccines in 2021 in less than 3 months totals 2,240, an increase of 295 over the previous seven days, which is over twice the number of deaths that were recorded over the past decade, with a total of 994 deaths. This already is well over 70 times the average for the past decade.

Of the 2,249 deaths reported as of March 26, 28% occurred within 48 hours of vaccination, 19% occurred within 24 hours.

https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes
(https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes)
Not surprising Moderna and Pfizer/Biontech with over 1,000 vaccine related deaths each as they are the longest with Emergency Use Authorization.


Over the same period of time 7,726 serious injuries (911 permanent) out of 50,861 were reported to VAERS. An increase of 631 serious injuries over the previous week. .

https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&SERIOUS=ON
(https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&SERIOUS=ON)

VAERS traditionally report on just 1% injuries and deaths, with the COVID vaccine I would expect reporting to be a good percentage higher but still not all cases reported.

Unfortunately after reading the above reports cognitive dissonance will set in for the majority and the deaths and injuries will continue to mount up.

Thanks for that link Seamus. Very interesting figures. They prove that taking the vaccine is thousands of times safer than getting covid-19. Glad to see you've come round to the safety and efficacy of the vaccine.

So you are admitting that the COVID-19 injections causes death and injury. Remember with VAERS only a small percentage is reported. Multiply those deaths and severe injuries at least by a factor of 20. In three months that would amount to 40k plus deaths in the US alone. Then take the false reporting of "COVID-19" deaths into account, even those with gunshot wounds are classified as "COVID -19" deaths. It adds to the hospital coffers as do those with comorbidities. .

https://www.skyhinews.com/news/coroner-state-included-a-murder-suicide-in-grands-covid-deaths/ (https://www.skyhinews.com/news/coroner-state-included-a-murder-suicide-in-grands-covid-deaths/)

There are several such reports worldwide, even a person shot twice in the head was classified as a "COVID-19" death.

Remember all those who died by "COVID-19" injection would still be alive today if they had made a better decision.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on April 04, 2021, 07:44:44 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 04, 2021, 02:07:58 PM
Very good news from the US this week, with a study showing the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines not only stop the development of symptoms, but they are 90% effective at stopping people getting infected at all. This is brilliant in terms of stopping all spreading of the disease.
No, thast can't be true.

After all, didn't our resident immunologist tell us all this just the other day?
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 10:16:01 AM
You also seem to ignore the fact that evidence says vaccines do not stop contraction and transmission of Covid. They merely serve to reduce the level of severity of the virus on you.

Of course I should have known that these people were talking nonsense when they said this as far back as February:
"The Pfizer vaccine appears to slow the spread of coronavirus as well as preventing people getting seriously ill, a study at a hospital has found.

The findings support similar research by Public Health England and an Oxford-AstraZeneca study, examining whether vaccines can stop the virus spreading.

The researchers said the results were a 'genuine good news story' but warned that other precautionary measures were still required to combat the virus."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56211755 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56211755)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on April 04, 2021, 07:57:54 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 04, 2021, 07:44:44 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 04, 2021, 02:07:58 PM
Very good news from the US this week, with a study showing the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines not only stop the development of symptoms, but they are 90% effective at stopping people getting infected at all. This is brilliant in terms of stopping all spreading of the disease.
No, thast can't be true.

After all, didn't our resident immunologist tell us all this just the other day?
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 10:16:01 AM
You also seem to ignore the fact that evidence says vaccines do not stop contraction and transmission of Covid. They merely serve to reduce the level of severity of the virus on you.

Of course I should have known that these people were talking nonsense when they said this as far back as February:
"The Pfizer vaccine appears to slow the spread of coronavirus as well as preventing people getting seriously ill, a study at a hospital has found.

The findings support similar research by Public Health England and an Oxford-AstraZeneca study, examining whether vaccines can stop the virus spreading.

The researchers said the results were a 'genuine good news story' but warned that other precautionary measures were still required to combat the virus."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56211755 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56211755)

So we are not talking about a vaccine here at all as a vaccine has a totally different definition. It is called a vaccine because of the 1986 Vaccine Liability Act in order to get protection from lawsuits. Moderna is not a vaccine company. I could go into far greater detail but it's a complete waste of time on this forum.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on April 04, 2021, 08:34:26 PM
Quote from: Seamus on April 04, 2021, 07:57:54 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 04, 2021, 07:44:44 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 04, 2021, 02:07:58 PM
Very good news from the US this week, with a study showing the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines not only stop the development of symptoms, but they are 90% effective at stopping people getting infected at all. This is brilliant in terms of stopping all spreading of the disease.
No, thast can't be true.

After all, didn't our resident immunologist tell us all this just the other day?
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 10:16:01 AM
You also seem to ignore the fact that evidence says vaccines do not stop contraction and transmission of Covid. They merely serve to reduce the level of severity of the virus on you.

Of course I should have known that these people were talking nonsense when they said this as far back as February:
"The Pfizer vaccine appears to slow the spread of coronavirus as well as preventing people getting seriously ill, a study at a hospital has found.

The findings support similar research by Public Health England and an Oxford-AstraZeneca study, examining whether vaccines can stop the virus spreading.

The researchers said the results were a 'genuine good news story' but warned that other precautionary measures were still required to combat the virus."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56211755 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56211755)

So we are not talking about a vaccine here at all as a vaccine has a totally different definition. It is called a vaccine because of the 1986 Vaccine Liability Act in order to get protection from lawsuits. Moderna is not a vaccine company. I could go into far greater detail but it's a complete waste of time on this forum.

Thanks Seamus, but there's 98% of people on here who need to waken up. Your greater detail could have done it. Next time sure
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on April 04, 2021, 09:20:20 PM
Quote from: Seamus on April 04, 2021, 07:39:41 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 03, 2021, 10:34:14 AM
Quote from: Seamus on April 03, 2021, 03:12:30 AM
Let the numbers do the talking, directly from one of the "expert's" very own website, the infamous CDC.

The number of US deaths related to vaccines in 2021 in less than 3 months totals 2,240, an increase of 295 over the previous seven days, which is over twice the number of deaths that were recorded over the past decade, with a total of 994 deaths. This already is well over 70 times the average for the past decade.

Of the 2,249 deaths reported as of March 26, 28% occurred within 48 hours of vaccination, 19% occurred within 24 hours.

https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes
(https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes)
Not surprising Moderna and Pfizer/Biontech with over 1,000 vaccine related deaths each as they are the longest with Emergency Use Authorization.


Over the same period of time 7,726 serious injuries (911 permanent) out of 50,861 were reported to VAERS. An increase of 631 serious injuries over the previous week. .

https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&SERIOUS=ON
(https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&SERIOUS=ON)

VAERS traditionally report on just 1% injuries and deaths, with the COVID vaccine I would expect reporting to be a good percentage higher but still not all cases reported.

Unfortunately after reading the above reports cognitive dissonance will set in for the majority and the deaths and injuries will continue to mount up.

Thanks for that link Seamus. Very interesting figures. They prove that taking the vaccine is thousands of times safer than getting covid-19. Glad to see you've come round to the safety and efficacy of the vaccine.

So you are admitting that the COVID-19 injections causes death and injury. Remember with VAERS only a small percentage is reported. Multiply those deaths and severe injuries at least by a factor of 20. In three months that would amount to 40k plus deaths in the US alone. Then take the false reporting of "COVID-19" deaths into account, even those with gunshot wounds are classified as "COVID -19" deaths. It adds to the hospital coffers as do those with comorbidities. .

https://www.skyhinews.com/news/coroner-state-included-a-murder-suicide-in-grands-covid-deaths/ (https://www.skyhinews.com/news/coroner-state-included-a-murder-suicide-in-grands-covid-deaths/)

There are several such reports worldwide, even a person shot twice in the head was classified as a "COVID-19" death.

Remember all those who died by "COVID-19" injection would still be alive today if they had made a better decision.

More people taking a vaccine means there will be more adverse reactions to the vaccine. That's just basic maths.

Just like if there are significantly more people driving cars you are likely to see an increase in car accidents
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on April 04, 2021, 09:20:48 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 04, 2021, 08:34:26 PM
Quote from: Seamus on April 04, 2021, 07:57:54 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 04, 2021, 07:44:44 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 04, 2021, 02:07:58 PM
Very good news from the US this week, with a study showing the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines not only stop the development of symptoms, but they are 90% effective at stopping people getting infected at all. This is brilliant in terms of stopping all spreading of the disease.
No, thast can't be true.

After all, didn't our resident immunologist tell us all this just the other day?
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 10:16:01 AM
You also seem to ignore the fact that evidence says vaccines do not stop contraction and transmission of Covid. They merely serve to reduce the level of severity of the virus on you.

Of course I should have known that these people were talking nonsense when they said this as far back as February:
"The Pfizer vaccine appears to slow the spread of coronavirus as well as preventing people getting seriously ill, a study at a hospital has found.

The findings support similar research by Public Health England and an Oxford-AstraZeneca study, examining whether vaccines can stop the virus spreading.

The researchers said the results were a 'genuine good news story' but warned that other precautionary measures were still required to combat the virus."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56211755 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56211755)

So we are not talking about a vaccine here at all as a vaccine has a totally different definition. It is called a vaccine because of the 1986 Vaccine Liability Act in order to get protection from lawsuits. Moderna is not a vaccine company. I could go into far greater detail but it's a complete waste of time on this forum.

Thanks Seamus, but there's 98% of people on here who need to waken up. Your greater detail could have done it. Next time sure

Joe, I could explain it in the written word but it would take too long and go over most people's head. I could put up a BitChute link, which you despise, even though it comes from a very well qualified doctor, not a extreme right wing politician, nor even a politician. It is probably on YouTube also, the fascist censor kings, I know you would be more at home there. It's about 30 min long, none will watch and listen as their minds are already foolishly made up so what's the point?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on April 04, 2021, 09:21:45 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 04, 2021, 09:20:20 PM
Quote from: Seamus on April 04, 2021, 07:39:41 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 03, 2021, 10:34:14 AM
Quote from: Seamus on April 03, 2021, 03:12:30 AM
Let the numbers do the talking, directly from one of the "expert's" very own website, the infamous CDC.

The number of US deaths related to vaccines in 2021 in less than 3 months totals 2,240, an increase of 295 over the previous seven days, which is over twice the number of deaths that were recorded over the past decade, with a total of 994 deaths. This already is well over 70 times the average for the past decade.

Of the 2,249 deaths reported as of March 26, 28% occurred within 48 hours of vaccination, 19% occurred within 24 hours.

https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes
(https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes)
Not surprising Moderna and Pfizer/Biontech with over 1,000 vaccine related deaths each as they are the longest with Emergency Use Authorization.


Over the same period of time 7,726 serious injuries (911 permanent) out of 50,861 were reported to VAERS. An increase of 631 serious injuries over the previous week. .

https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&SERIOUS=ON
(https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&SERIOUS=ON)

VAERS traditionally report on just 1% injuries and deaths, with the COVID vaccine I would expect reporting to be a good percentage higher but still not all cases reported.

Unfortunately after reading the above reports cognitive dissonance will set in for the majority and the deaths and injuries will continue to mount up.

Thanks for that link Seamus. Very interesting figures. They prove that taking the vaccine is thousands of times safer than getting covid-19. Glad to see you've come round to the safety and efficacy of the vaccine.

So you are admitting that the COVID-19 injections causes death and injury. Remember with VAERS only a small percentage is reported. Multiply those deaths and severe injuries at least by a factor of 20. In three months that would amount to 40k plus deaths in the US alone. Then take the false reporting of "COVID-19" deaths into account, even those with gunshot wounds are classified as "COVID -19" deaths. It adds to the hospital coffers as do those with comorbidities. .

https://www.skyhinews.com/news/coroner-state-included-a-murder-suicide-in-grands-covid-deaths/ (https://www.skyhinews.com/news/coroner-state-included-a-murder-suicide-in-grands-covid-deaths/)

There are several such reports worldwide, even a person shot twice in the head was classified as a "COVID-19" death.

Remember all those who died by "COVID-19" injection would still be alive today if they had made a better decision.

More people taking a vaccine means there will be more adverse reactions to the vaccine. That's just basic maths.

Just like if there are significantly more people driving cars you are likely to see an increase in car accidents

Unfortunately it is not a vaccine
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on April 04, 2021, 09:27:38 PM
Thanks for that Dr. Seamus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on April 04, 2021, 10:16:52 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 04, 2021, 09:27:38 PM
Thanks for that Dr. Seamus.

You're very welcome
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on April 04, 2021, 11:27:48 PM
Quote from: Seamus on April 04, 2021, 09:20:48 PM
not a extreme right wing politician
an
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on April 04, 2021, 11:30:24 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 04, 2021, 08:34:26 PM

Thanks Seamus, but there's 98% of people on here who need to waken up. Your greater detail could have done it. Next time sure
I guess that means the 2% of people who don't need to wake up are woke

But those 2% hate wokeness

Confusinger and confusinger
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 05, 2021, 08:49:44 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 04, 2021, 07:44:44 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 04, 2021, 02:07:58 PM
Very good news from the US this week, with a study showing the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines not only stop the development of symptoms, but they are 90% effective at stopping people getting infected at all. This is brilliant in terms of stopping all spreading of the disease.
No, thast can't be true.

After all, didn't our resident immunologist tell us all this just the other day?
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 10:16:01 AM
You also seem to ignore the fact that evidence says vaccines do not stop contraction and transmission of Covid. They merely serve to reduce the level of severity of the virus on you.

Of course I should have known that these people were talking nonsense when they said this as far back as February:
"The Pfizer vaccine appears to slow the spread of coronavirus as well as preventing people getting seriously ill, a study at a hospital has found.

The findings support similar research by Public Health England and an Oxford-AstraZeneca study, examining whether vaccines can stop the virus spreading.

The researchers said the results were a 'genuine good news story' but warned that other precautionary measures were still required to combat the virus."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56211755 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56211755)

"Appears to" is extremely definitive alright.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 05, 2021, 08:51:42 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 04, 2021, 09:20:20 PM
Quote from: Seamus on April 04, 2021, 07:39:41 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 03, 2021, 10:34:14 AM
Quote from: Seamus on April 03, 2021, 03:12:30 AM
Let the numbers do the talking, directly from one of the "expert's" very own website, the infamous CDC.

The number of US deaths related to vaccines in 2021 in less than 3 months totals 2,240, an increase of 295 over the previous seven days, which is over twice the number of deaths that were recorded over the past decade, with a total of 994 deaths. This already is well over 70 times the average for the past decade.

Of the 2,249 deaths reported as of March 26, 28% occurred within 48 hours of vaccination, 19% occurred within 24 hours.

https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes
(https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes)
Not surprising Moderna and Pfizer/Biontech with over 1,000 vaccine related deaths each as they are the longest with Emergency Use Authorization.


Over the same period of time 7,726 serious injuries (911 permanent) out of 50,861 were reported to VAERS. An increase of 631 serious injuries over the previous week. .

https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&SERIOUS=ON
(https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&SERIOUS=ON)

VAERS traditionally report on just 1% injuries and deaths, with the COVID vaccine I would expect reporting to be a good percentage higher but still not all cases reported.

Unfortunately after reading the above reports cognitive dissonance will set in for the majority and the deaths and injuries will continue to mount up.

Thanks for that link Seamus. Very interesting figures. They prove that taking the vaccine is thousands of times safer than getting covid-19. Glad to see you've come round to the safety and efficacy of the vaccine.

So you are admitting that the COVID-19 injections causes death and injury. Remember with VAERS only a small percentage is reported. Multiply those deaths and severe injuries at least by a factor of 20. In three months that would amount to 40k plus deaths in the US alone. Then take the false reporting of "COVID-19" deaths into account, even those with gunshot wounds are classified as "COVID -19" deaths. It adds to the hospital coffers as do those with comorbidities. .

https://www.skyhinews.com/news/coroner-state-included-a-murder-suicide-in-grands-covid-deaths/ (https://www.skyhinews.com/news/coroner-state-included-a-murder-suicide-in-grands-covid-deaths/)

There are several such reports worldwide, even a person shot twice in the head was classified as a "COVID-19" death.

Remember all those who died by "COVID-19" injection would still be alive today if they had made a better decision.

More people taking a vaccine means there will be more adverse reactions to the vaccine. That's just basic maths.

Just like if there are significantly more people driving cars you are likely to see an increase in car accidents

The absolute stupidity of that post. Apparently more adverse reactions is a good thing then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 05, 2021, 09:29:09 AM
The absurdity of your logic is not to take it. You are thick lad
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on April 05, 2021, 05:19:09 PM
Do vaccines lower transmission? YES, absolutely.

How much? By a lot—75% to 94% in recent studies.

Do vaccines completely eliminate any and all transmission? NO.

That is why we still need to mask after vaccinating until cases are very low or zero. #COVID19
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on April 05, 2021, 05:31:58 PM
Quote from: lenny on April 05, 2021, 05:19:09 PM
Do vaccines lower transmission? YES, absolutely.

How much? By a lot—75% to 94% in recent studies.

Do vaccines completely eliminate any and all transmission? NO.

That is why we still need to mask after vaccinating until cases are very low or zero. #COVID19
It's all a conspiracy by Big Mask

And we all know they're in cahoots with Big Vaccine and Big Chocolate
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 05, 2021, 07:54:23 PM
0.1% of cases passed on outdoors. Something that's been known for a long time yet nphet (who it seems run the country without any hindrance) have outdoors sports and recreation banned. This is why they should be them off prime time tv and instead reporting to government.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 05, 2021, 11:48:13 PM
Decisions are made by Government.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on April 05, 2021, 11:58:31 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 05, 2021, 08:49:44 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 04, 2021, 07:44:44 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 04, 2021, 02:07:58 PM
Very good news from the US this week, with a study showing the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines not only stop the development of symptoms, but they are 90% effective at stopping people getting infected at all. This is brilliant in terms of stopping all spreading of the disease.
No, thast can't be true.

After all, didn't our resident immunologist tell us all this just the other day?
Quote from: Angelo on April 04, 2021, 10:16:01 AM
You also seem to ignore the fact that evidence says vaccines do not stop contraction and transmission of Covid. They merely serve to reduce the level of severity of the virus on you.

Of course I should have known that these people were talking nonsense when they said this as far back as February:
"The Pfizer vaccine appears to slow the spread of coronavirus as well as preventing people getting seriously ill, a study at a hospital has found.

The findings support similar research by Public Health England and an Oxford-AstraZeneca study, examining whether vaccines can stop the virus spreading.

The researchers said the results were a 'genuine good news story' but warned that other precautionary measures were still required to combat the virus."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56211755 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56211755)

"Appears to" is extremely definitive alright.
No, your "vaccines do not stop contraction and transmission of Covid" was definitive*.

And wrong.

Take eg the UK (population 68m) and France (pop. 65m).

Last Thursday France recorded just over 50k new Covid cases, while the UK had just under 5k. Since then, the UK figure has fallen consistently to just 2,762 today (05 April), making a 33% fall over the last 7 days, while France recorded 67k cases on 04 April. I can't find exactly corresponding data, but France's transmission rate had risen by over 30% over 14 days, with the rise appearing to be exponential:
https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Coronavirus-Daily-updates-on-the-situation-in-France (https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Coronavirus-Daily-updates-on-the-situation-in-France)
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/)

Of course there are many reasons to explain this disparity, but the differing rates of vaccination must be the major factor:
France - 1st jab: 9.3m, 2nd jab: 3.1m;
UK - 1st jab: 31.6m, 2nd jab: 5.4m.


* There can be no gradations of "definitive" btw, something either is or it isn't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 06, 2021, 12:06:37 AM
Angelo will give us a true picture of this, and smurphy will tell us it's seasonal and France are still in their winter period
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 06, 2021, 09:09:04 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 05, 2021, 11:48:13 PM
Decisions are made by Government.

You dont understand how this works. If you delegate to the most conservative, blinkered, one topic advisor group to attend daily the most watched news in the country and give their single  topic narrow opinion then this makes it pretty much impossible for you as a leader to overrule. But you are right, the buck stops with government and in particular Irelands worst ever Taoiseach. And BTW the job of NPHET is to give that single topic narrow view. The job of government is to weigh it up against all the other views that are out there. The later the government are failing miserably to do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on April 06, 2021, 10:05:47 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2021, 07:54:23 PM
0.1% of cases passed on outdoors. Something that's been known for a long time yet nphet (who it seems run the country without any hindrance) have outdoors sports and recreation banned. This is why they should be them off prime time tv and instead reporting to government.
Where are you getting that 0.1% figure from itchy?

Tomas Ryan, who is in favour of a zero Covid policy, said on Dunphy's podcast that it makes absolutely no sense that children are back in school indoors, but that outdoor Easter camps are banned.

I didn't think the % was that low though. I thought that the British variant was more capable of transmission outdoors than the pre-Christmas one
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 06, 2021, 10:25:54 AM
Quote from: Hound on April 06, 2021, 10:05:47 AM
Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2021, 07:54:23 PM
0.1% of cases passed on outdoors. Something that's been known for a long time yet nphet (who it seems run the country without any hindrance) have outdoors sports and recreation banned. This is why they should be them off prime time tv and instead reporting to government.
Where are you getting that 0.1% figure from itchy?

Tomas Ryan, who is in favour of a zero Covid policy, said on Dunphy's podcast that it makes absolutely no sense that children are back in school indoors, but that outdoor Easter camps are banned.

I didn't think the % was that low though. I thought that the British variant was more capable of transmission outdoors than the pre-Christmas one

Reported widely in the media past few days...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/outdoor-transmission-accounts-for-0-1-of-state-s-covid-19-cases-1.4529036
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/calls-to-allow-open-air-dining-and-sports-after-figures-show-just-01pc-of-covid-cases-linked-to-outdoor-transmission-40278494.html

By all accounts that data has been around a lot longer than that too from the US and other countries.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 07, 2021, 12:02:22 PM
How many men here been vaccinated already? Got the first jab a month ago. Sore arm next day, but like the normal flu jab I get each Yr. Don't understand the point of view of anti vacs, as we all got the triple booster when younger for tetanus, polio, etc. If you sick u at the doctors looking antibiotics / medical steroids to improve your health. How's getting this injection 💉 any different.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 12:11:25 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 07, 2021, 12:02:22 PM
How many men here been vaccinated already? Got the first jab a month ago. Sore arm next day, but like the normal flu jab I get each Yr. Don't understand the point of view of anti vacs, as we all got the triple booster when younger for tetanus, polio, etc. If you sick u at the doctors looking antibiotics / medical steroids to improve your health. How's getting this injection 💉 any different.

Being worried about a novel vaccine created in a very short time space is not anti-vax.

The AZ vaccine has been associated with blood clotting and deaths all over Europe. People are right to be cautious about it and that does not make them anti-vax.

For u40s the vaccine is arguably as much a danger as Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 12:13:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 07, 2021, 12:02:22 PM
How many men here been vaccinated already? Got the first jab a month ago. Sore arm next day, but like the normal flu jab I get each Yr. Don't understand the point of view of anti vacs, as we all got the triple booster when younger for tetanus, polio, etc. If you sick u at the doctors looking antibiotics / medical steroids to improve your health. How's getting this injection 💉 any different.

Got the jab yesterday.
Like you weasel a bit of a sore arm today but nothing else.

I can assure you if there was a vaccine passport introduced for foreign travel or restaurants etc all of these people saying they wouldnt get it would be in the queue looking it.

Lets see how strong their 'beliefs' are then
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 07, 2021, 12:15:43 PM
No vaccine for me....too young, whilst you elderly prance around enjoying life and breaking the rules.

Terrible!

Was going to post as is....maybe better to point out I'm joking here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on April 07, 2021, 01:51:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 12:13:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 07, 2021, 12:02:22 PM
How many men here been vaccinated already? Got the first jab a month ago. Sore arm next day, but like the normal flu jab I get each Yr. Don't understand the point of view of anti vacs, as we all got the triple booster when younger for tetanus, polio, etc. If you sick u at the doctors looking antibiotics / medical steroids to improve your health. How's getting this injection 💉 any different.

Got the jab yesterday.
Like you weasel a bit of a sore arm today but nothing else.

I can assure you if there was a vaccine passport introduced for foreign travel or restaurants etc all of these people saying they wouldnt get it would be in the queue looking it.

Lets see how strong their 'beliefs' are then

Few outside Derry City will know of our infamous GP Anne McCloskey. The lady is clearly unhinged, but has quite a following online which makes her and her beliefs quite dangerous. She is now telling her followers that the vaccine is being used to eliminate community and family bonds / units by altering genes and dna.
And you're right Taylor, we'll see how principled the anti-vaxx crew are when it comes to holidaying abroad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 07, 2021, 02:11:28 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 07, 2021, 12:02:22 PM
How many men here been vaccinated already? Got the first jab a month ago. Sore arm next day, but like the normal flu jab I get each Yr. Don't understand the point of view of anti vacs, as we all got the triple booster when younger for tetanus, polio, etc. If you sick u at the doctors looking antibiotics / medical steroids to improve your health. How's getting this injection 💉 any different.
1st Pfizer in me weeks ago and back for the 2nd in 4 weeks. Didn't even have the sore arm. Brother in law had the AZ and felt a bit rubbish for a couple of days but grand thereafter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 07, 2021, 02:22:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 12:13:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 07, 2021, 12:02:22 PM
How many men here been vaccinated already? Got the first jab a month ago. Sore arm next day, but like the normal flu jab I get each Yr. Don't understand the point of view of anti vacs, as we all got the triple booster when younger for tetanus, polio, etc. If you sick u at the doctors looking antibiotics / medical steroids to improve your health. How's getting this injection 💉 any different.

Got the jab yesterday.
Like you weasel a bit of a sore arm today but nothing else.

I can assure you if there was a vaccine passport introduced for foreign travel or restaurants etc all of these people saying they wouldnt get it would be in the queue looking it.

Lets see how strong their 'beliefs' are then

You realise that is coercing people into taking something they don't want to take?

The rights and wrongs aside, I've said many times I will take the vaccination, I am not anti Vaxx or pushing any agenda but we cannot force people to put something into their bodies they don't want to. It is against everything the free world stands for.

There must be an education and defeat of that mindset by data, science and time.....This notion of passports and mandatory vaccination is very, very dangerous. It's how democracy starts to slip into authoritarianism. I don't think we should be encouraging this type of thing whatsoever.

What would be next for example?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on April 07, 2021, 02:27:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 07, 2021, 02:22:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 12:13:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 07, 2021, 12:02:22 PM
How many men here been vaccinated already? Got the first jab a month ago. Sore arm next day, but like the normal flu jab I get each Yr. Don't understand the point of view of anti vacs, as we all got the triple booster when younger for tetanus, polio, etc. If you sick u at the doctors looking antibiotics / medical steroids to improve your health. How's getting this injection 💉 any different.

Got the jab yesterday.
Like you weasel a bit of a sore arm today but nothing else.

I can assure you if there was a vaccine passport introduced for foreign travel or restaurants etc all of these people saying they wouldnt get it would be in the queue looking it.

Lets see how strong their 'beliefs' are then

You realise that is coercing people into taking something they don't want to take?

The rights and wrongs aside, I've said many times I will take the vaccination, I am not anti Vaxx or pushing any agenda but we cannot force people to put something into their bodies they don't want to. It is against everything the free world stands for.

There must be an education and defeat of that mindset by data, science and time.....This notion of passports and mandatory vaccination is very, very dangerous. It's how democracy starts to slip into authoritarianism. I don't think we should be encouraging this type of thing whatsoever.

What would be next for example?

Take the word 'restaurant' out of the text, and it's nothing new. I can't see the introduction of a vaccine passport for anything beyond foreign travel. Have you seen the list of vaccines required when applying for a Green Card? South East Asia, African travel etc demand vaccines. No difference imo with this only its on a wider scale
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 02:30:02 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 12:13:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 07, 2021, 12:02:22 PM
How many men here been vaccinated already? Got the first jab a month ago. Sore arm next day, but like the normal flu jab I get each Yr. Don't understand the point of view of anti vacs, as we all got the triple booster when younger for tetanus, polio, etc. If you sick u at the doctors looking antibiotics / medical steroids to improve your health. How's getting this injection 💉 any different.

Got the jab yesterday.
Like you weasel a bit of a sore arm today but nothing else.

I can assure you if there was a vaccine passport introduced for foreign travel or restaurants etc all of these people saying they wouldnt get it would be in the queue looking it.

Lets see how strong their 'beliefs' are then

Deary, deary me.

Maybe tell the families of the people in Norway, Austria, Georgia, Sweden and elsewhere who died from blood clotting or a severe reaction to the AZ vaccine that it should be made mandatory on everyone.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on April 07, 2021, 02:36:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 02:30:02 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 12:13:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 07, 2021, 12:02:22 PM
How many men here been vaccinated already? Got the first jab a month ago. Sore arm next day, but like the normal flu jab I get each Yr. Don't understand the point of view of anti vacs, as we all got the triple booster when younger for tetanus, polio, etc. If you sick u at the doctors looking antibiotics / medical steroids to improve your health. How's getting this injection 💉 any different.

Got the jab yesterday.
Like you weasel a bit of a sore arm today but nothing else.

I can assure you if there was a vaccine passport introduced for foreign travel or restaurants etc all of these people saying they wouldnt get it would be in the queue looking it.

Lets see how strong their 'beliefs' are then

Deary, deary me.

Maybe tell the families of the people in Norway, Austria, Georgia, Sweden and elsewhere who died from blood clotting or a severe reaction to the AZ vaccine that it should be made mandatory on everyone.

You'll be first in line with sleeve rolled up looking it. A show pony.

While you are here any comments, you've been asked before, about the situation in India that you claimed was baffling scientists as covid was disappearing and them with no lockdown, in your eyes, and now look at it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 07, 2021, 02:43:10 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 07, 2021, 02:27:49 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 07, 2021, 02:22:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 12:13:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 07, 2021, 12:02:22 PM
How many men here been vaccinated already? Got the first jab a month ago. Sore arm next day, but like the normal flu jab I get each Yr. Don't understand the point of view of anti vacs, as we all got the triple booster when younger for tetanus, polio, etc. If you sick u at the doctors looking antibiotics / medical steroids to improve your health. How's getting this injection 💉 any different.

Got the jab yesterday.
Like you weasel a bit of a sore arm today but nothing else.

I can assure you if there was a vaccine passport introduced for foreign travel or restaurants etc all of these people saying they wouldnt get it would be in the queue looking it.

Lets see how strong their 'beliefs' are then

You realise that is coercing people into taking something they don't want to take?

The rights and wrongs aside, I've said many times I will take the vaccination, I am not anti Vaxx or pushing any agenda but we cannot force people to put something into their bodies they don't want to. It is against everything the free world stands for.

There must be an education and defeat of that mindset by data, science and time.....This notion of passports and mandatory vaccination is very, very dangerous. It's how democracy starts to slip into authoritarianism. I don't think we should be encouraging this type of thing whatsoever.

What would be next for example?

Take the word 'restaurant' out of the text, and it's nothing new. I can't see the introduction of a vaccine passport for anything beyond foreign travel. Have you seen the list of vaccines required when applying for a Green Card? South East Asia, African travel etc demand vaccines. No difference imo with this only its on a wider scale

That would be fair enough in that respect, I meant it regarding a domestic, kind of hard system where those who don't take the vaccine are excluded from society. That is a dark, dark path to even think about going down.

Are we seriously suggesting you must prove you have a vaccination to enter a Bar? Do we have vaccinated only Bars? Do we have run riot no rules Bars? It's mad.

I mean look, if you have the vaccine now at this stage, fair play to you - what odds to you who does or doesn't take it thereafter really? Seems a bit strange considering that the uptake is very high and things are going well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on April 07, 2021, 02:48:40 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 07, 2021, 01:51:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 12:13:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 07, 2021, 12:02:22 PM
How many men here been vaccinated already? Got the first jab a month ago. Sore arm next day, but like the normal flu jab I get each Yr. Don't understand the point of view of anti vacs, as we all got the triple booster when younger for tetanus, polio, etc. If you sick u at the doctors looking antibiotics / medical steroids to improve your health. How's getting this injection 💉 any different.

Got the jab yesterday.
Like you weasel a bit of a sore arm today but nothing else.

I can assure you if there was a vaccine passport introduced for foreign travel or restaurants etc all of these people saying they wouldnt get it would be in the queue looking it.

Lets see how strong their 'beliefs' are then

Few outside Derry City will know of our infamous GP Anne McCloskey. The lady is clearly unhinged, but has quite a following online which makes her and her beliefs quite dangerous. She is now telling her followers that the vaccine is being used to eliminate community and family bonds / units by altering genes and dna.
And you're right Taylor, we'll see how principled the anti-vaxx crew are when it comes to holidaying abroad.
Conspiracy "thinking" always has a ready market in a crisis

The epidemic of conspiracism and disinformation the world is currently under attack from, the sort of "thinking" epitomised by several posters here, is reminiscent of the conspiracist nonsense that was allowed to spread in Germany after World War I

And we all know where that ultimately led to
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 02:52:16 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on April 07, 2021, 02:48:40 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 07, 2021, 01:51:11 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 12:13:07 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on April 07, 2021, 12:02:22 PM
How many men here been vaccinated already? Got the first jab a month ago. Sore arm next day, but like the normal flu jab I get each Yr. Don't understand the point of view of anti vacs, as we all got the triple booster when younger for tetanus, polio, etc. If you sick u at the doctors looking antibiotics / medical steroids to improve your health. How's getting this injection 💉 any different.

Got the jab yesterday.
Like you weasel a bit of a sore arm today but nothing else.

I can assure you if there was a vaccine passport introduced for foreign travel or restaurants etc all of these people saying they wouldnt get it would be in the queue looking it.

Lets see how strong their 'beliefs' are then

Few outside Derry City will know of our infamous GP Anne McCloskey. The lady is clearly unhinged, but has quite a following online which makes her and her beliefs quite dangerous. She is now telling her followers that the vaccine is being used to eliminate community and family bonds / units by altering genes and dna.
And you're right Taylor, we'll see how principled the anti-vaxx crew are when it comes to holidaying abroad.
Conspiracy "thinking" always has a ready market in a crisis

The epidemic of conspiracism and disinformation the world is currently under attack from, the sort of "thinking" epitomised by several posters here, is reminiscent of the conspiracist nonsense that was allowed to spread in Germany after World War I

And we all know where that ultimately led to

(https://i.postimg.cc/Xvhb0R9F/irony.gif)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on April 07, 2021, 02:54:39 PM
So easily triggered  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on April 07, 2021, 03:40:18 PM
Got my AZ vaccination today there with a local Pharmacy. Interesting that he took the time to tell me it will be uploaded to my GP system / NHS number and will undoubtedly form part of the Passporting system that is coming.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on April 07, 2021, 03:58:48 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 07, 2021, 03:40:18 PM
Got my AZ vaccination today there with a local Pharmacy. Interesting that he took the time to tell me it will be uploaded to my GP system / NHS number and will undoubtedly form part of the Passporting system that is coming.

Linked into the apps being tested by many major airlines atm which will, (if vaccinated) allow the flight booker onto their flight booking pages. Seems to be the way things are moving.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on April 07, 2021, 04:25:56 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 07, 2021, 03:40:18 PM
Got my AZ vaccination today there with a local Pharmacy. Interesting that he took the time to tell me it will be uploaded to my GP system / NHS number and will undoubtedly form part of the Passporting system that is coming.
It has to be recorded by the NHS, to see that no-one is being left out, and call people for their second jab etc.

But it is a hell of a long way from merely updating existing NHS attendance records, to rolling out a nationwide Passport scheme - even if the political will for one exists (not certain).

Unless, of course, your Pharmacist has some sort of hotline to No.10 that the rest of us don't know about?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 04:41:33 PM
There is lots of debate about domestic vaccine passports & the rights and wrongs of it.

I can see how some people say it will infringe on their rights and being able to live a normalish life and thats a fair point which will be heavily scrutinised.

A question for anyone who refuses to take the vaccine - if this means no foreign countries will allow you entry for the rest of your days are you willing to stand by your ideology/beliefs?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 07, 2021, 04:51:21 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 04:41:33 PM
There is lots of debate about domestic vaccine passports & the rights and wrongs of it.

I can see how some people say it will infringe on their rights and being able to live a normalish life and thats a fair point which will be heavily scrutinised.

A question for anyone who refuses to take the vaccine - if this means no foreign countries will allow you entry for the rest of your days are you willing to stand by your ideology/beliefs?

As someone has said already, we require passports to move around the globe, we require malaria vaccines for entry into certain countries. We vaccinate our children, we take antibiotics when we feel poorly and replace our blood if we required a transfusion.

The cries of its against free will and so on is a fair point, the simple answer is take it, don't take it or take it when you feel its ok to take it, in the meantime, business like travel will have to get back to normal, the mental health of these workers needs to be taken into consideration, being out of work will have brought on so much stress for this trade as it has done for the hospitality trades. Also the stress of people being couped up longer will only make mental health matters worse, not better.

I know one particular poster has been championing the plight of these people to nearly every post on here, as bad as those caring PT's.

So if you are concerned about the health, mental health, the fallen business's and loss of employment, then take a moment, think, and take the jab ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on April 07, 2021, 05:05:42 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 07, 2021, 04:25:56 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 07, 2021, 03:40:18 PM
Got my AZ vaccination today there with a local Pharmacy. Interesting that he took the time to tell me it will be uploaded to my GP system / NHS number and will undoubtedly form part of the Passporting system that is coming.
It has to be recorded by the NHS, to see that no-one is being left out, and call people for their second jab etc.

But it is a hell of a long way from merely updating existing NHS attendance records, to rolling out a nationwide Passport scheme - even if the political will for one exists (not certain).

Unless, of course, your Pharmacist has some sort of hotline to No.10 that the rest of us don't know about?
Political will? It's being discussed day & daily. A certainty for International travel and highly likely for sporting events etc.. in the UK in the near future ???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 07, 2021, 05:09:16 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 07, 2021, 05:05:42 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 07, 2021, 04:25:56 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 07, 2021, 03:40:18 PM
Got my AZ vaccination today there with a local Pharmacy. Interesting that he took the time to tell me it will be uploaded to my GP system / NHS number and will undoubtedly form part of the Passporting system that is coming.
It has to be recorded by the NHS, to see that no-one is being left out, and call people for their second jab etc.

But it is a hell of a long way from merely updating existing NHS attendance records, to rolling out a nationwide Passport scheme - even if the political will for one exists (not certain).

Unless, of course, your Pharmacist has some sort of hotline to No.10 that the rest of us don't know about?
Political will? It's being discussed day & daily. A certainty for International travel and highly likely for sporting events etc.. in the UK in the near future ???

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-labour-and-snp-withold-support-for-boris-johnsons-confusing-coronavirus-passports-plan-12268408

On top of what would certainly be a Tory rebellion.

It's not so open and closed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on April 07, 2021, 10:30:40 PM
As far as I remember, late 80's lol, you had to get the booster at school, no exceptions, remember an odd girl passing out. Length of needles bck then was lethal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 07, 2021, 11:16:03 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 04:41:33 PM
There is lots of debate about domestic vaccine passports & the rights and wrongs of it.

I can see how some people say it will infringe on their rights and being able to live a normalish life and thats a fair point which will be heavily scrutinised.

Nah, they can fuk off with their rights.

The sensible have a right not to be in danger of infection from mutated variants that developed in unvaccinated idiots.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 07, 2021, 11:18:10 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 07, 2021, 02:43:10 PM
That would be fair enough in that respect, I meant it regarding a domestic, kind of hard system where those who don't take the vaccine are excluded from society. That is a dark, dark path to even think about going down.

Are we seriously suggesting you must prove you have a vaccination to enter a Bar? Do we have vaccinated only Bars? Do we have run riot no rules Bars? It's mad.

The dark, dark path is the continued placement of ideology above scientific evidence.

Proper dark ages stuff. But don't expect the cheerleaders to look in a mirror and realise any time soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 11:40:00 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 07, 2021, 11:16:03 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 04:41:33 PM
There is lots of debate about domestic vaccine passports & the rights and wrongs of it.

I can see how some people say it will infringe on their rights and being able to live a normalish life and thats a fair point which will be heavily scrutinised.

Nah, they can fuk off with their rights.

The sensible have a right not to be in danger of infection from mutated variants that developed in unvaccinated idiots.

So people should not have the right to choose whether or not to take something that has been shown to cause blood clotting?

This is why zealots are dangerous.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 08, 2021, 09:01:00 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 07, 2021, 11:16:03 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 04:41:33 PM
There is lots of debate about domestic vaccine passports & the rights and wrongs of it.

I can see how some people say it will infringe on their rights and being able to live a normalish life and thats a fair point which will be heavily scrutinised.

Nah, they can fuk off with their rights.

The sensible have a right not to be in danger of infection from mutated variants that developed in unvaccinated idiots.
Na. If I'm vaccinated it's none of my business who else is and isn't. Trying to force people to take a vaccine is vile.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 08, 2021, 09:16:33 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 07, 2021, 11:18:10 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 07, 2021, 02:43:10 PM
That would be fair enough in that respect, I meant it regarding a domestic, kind of hard system where those who don't take the vaccine are excluded from society. That is a dark, dark path to even think about going down.

Are we seriously suggesting you must prove you have a vaccination to enter a Bar? Do we have vaccinated only Bars? Do we have run riot no rules Bars? It's mad.

The dark, dark path is the continued placement of ideology above scientific evidence.

Proper dark ages stuff. But don't expect the cheerleaders to look in a mirror and realise any time soon.

What you are suggesting is mandatory vaccination?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 08, 2021, 09:20:34 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 08, 2021, 09:01:00 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 07, 2021, 11:16:03 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 04:41:33 PM
There is lots of debate about domestic vaccine passports & the rights and wrongs of it.

I can see how some people say it will infringe on their rights and being able to live a normalish life and thats a fair point which will be heavily scrutinised.

Nah, they can fuk off with their rights.

The sensible have a right not to be in danger of infection from mutated variants that developed in unvaccinated idiots.
Na. If I'm vaccinated it's none of my business who else is and isn't. Trying to force people to take a vaccine is vile.

A willingness to infect people with Covid is vile.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 08, 2021, 09:24:23 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 08, 2021, 09:20:34 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 08, 2021, 09:01:00 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 07, 2021, 11:16:03 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 04:41:33 PM
There is lots of debate about domestic vaccine passports & the rights and wrongs of it.

I can see how some people say it will infringe on their rights and being able to live a normalish life and thats a fair point which will be heavily scrutinised.

Nah, they can fuk off with their rights.

The sensible have a right not to be in danger of infection from mutated variants that developed in unvaccinated idiots.
Na. If I'm vaccinated it's none of my business who else is and isn't. Trying to force people to take a vaccine is vile.

A willingness to infect people with Covid is vile.
Get the vaccine then and you're laughing. No ones business who does and doesn't. I'm not anti vax btw and will take it when it's my turn.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 08, 2021, 12:11:48 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 08, 2021, 09:16:33 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 07, 2021, 11:18:10 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 07, 2021, 02:43:10 PM
That would be fair enough in that respect, I meant it regarding a domestic, kind of hard system where those who don't take the vaccine are excluded from society. That is a dark, dark path to even think about going down.

Are we seriously suggesting you must prove you have a vaccination to enter a Bar? Do we have vaccinated only Bars? Do we have run riot no rules Bars? It's mad.

The dark, dark path is the continued placement of ideology above scientific evidence.

Proper dark ages stuff. But don't expect the cheerleaders to look in a mirror and realise any time soon.

What you are suggesting is mandatory vaccination?

I'm living in NY.

My kids were required to have received the recommended list of childhood vaccines for MMR, Hep B, polio etc. before they were permitted to be enrolled in daycare/creche facilities and after that, school. Meningitis and other vaccines will come later. No exceptions except for medical reasons. If I didn't want them vaccinated, then it was either homeschool, leave NYC, or try to find some school were the administrators were turning a blind eye to vaccinations (which worked out well in the Orthodox Jewish community in and around NYC in recent years with measles outbreaks).

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on April 08, 2021, 12:19:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 11:40:00 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 07, 2021, 11:16:03 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 04:41:33 PM
There is lots of debate about domestic vaccine passports & the rights and wrongs of it.

I can see how some people say it will infringe on their rights and being able to live a normalish life and thats a fair point which will be heavily scrutinised.

Nah, they can fuk off with their rights.

The sensible have a right not to be in danger of infection from mutated variants that developed in unvaccinated idiots.

So people should not have the right to choose whether or not to take something that has been shown to cause blood clotting?

This is why zealots are dangerous.

People can choose to do what they like but to say that everyone else has to be OK with it is wrong!

Don't get vaccinated fair enough but don't expect to be getting on a plane/eating in a restaurant/drinking in a bar if you're likely to infect and kill people!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 08, 2021, 12:21:12 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 08, 2021, 12:19:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 11:40:00 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 07, 2021, 11:16:03 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 04:41:33 PM
There is lots of debate about domestic vaccine passports & the rights and wrongs of it.

I can see how some people say it will infringe on their rights and being able to live a normalish life and thats a fair point which will be heavily scrutinised.

Nah, they can fuk off with their rights.

The sensible have a right not to be in danger of infection from mutated variants that developed in unvaccinated idiots.

So people should not have the right to choose whether or not to take something that has been shown to cause blood clotting?

This is why zealots are dangerous.

People can choose to do what they like but to say that everyone else has to be OK with it is wrong!

Don't get vaccinated fair enough but don't expect to be getting on a plane/eating in a restaurant/drinking in a bar if you're likely to infect and kill people!
Thats a ridiculous take. Get your vaccine then and you've nothing to worry about
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 08, 2021, 12:26:52 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 08, 2021, 12:19:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 11:40:00 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 07, 2021, 11:16:03 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 04:41:33 PM
There is lots of debate about domestic vaccine passports & the rights and wrongs of it.

I can see how some people say it will infringe on their rights and being able to live a normalish life and thats a fair point which will be heavily scrutinised.

Nah, they can fuk off with their rights.

The sensible have a right not to be in danger of infection from mutated variants that developed in unvaccinated idiots.

So people should not have the right to choose whether or not to take something that has been shown to cause blood clotting?

This is why zealots are dangerous.

People can choose to do what they like but to say that everyone else has to be OK with it is wrong!

Don't get vaccinated fair enough but don't expect to be getting on a plane/eating in a restaurant/drinking in a bar if you're likely to infect and kill people!

Jesus wept.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on April 08, 2021, 12:46:27 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 08, 2021, 12:21:12 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 08, 2021, 12:19:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 11:40:00 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 07, 2021, 11:16:03 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 04:41:33 PM
There is lots of debate about domestic vaccine passports & the rights and wrongs of it.

I can see how some people say it will infringe on their rights and being able to live a normalish life and thats a fair point which will be heavily scrutinised.

Nah, they can fuk off with their rights.

The sensible have a right not to be in danger of infection from mutated variants that developed in unvaccinated idiots.

So people should not have the right to choose whether or not to take something that has been shown to cause blood clotting?

This is why zealots are dangerous.

People can choose to do what they like but to say that everyone else has to be OK with it is wrong!

Don't get vaccinated fair enough but don't expect to be getting on a plane/eating in a restaurant/drinking in a bar if you're likely to infect and kill people!
Thats a ridiculous take. Get your vaccine then and you've nothing to worry about

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3K59YNpZZZ5azVJ6ifQs6d?si=oDXkrdxYQPO_YaK3nrkqKw&nd=1

Theres still plenty of differing views if not friendly debate, its understandable that some people may not agree with the vaccine program. Just for the record I've had mine but I would say I am far from convinced about the strategy when the people taking responsibilty for their personal health is never on the agenda. And among the biggest winners in lock down have been Off Licences and Takeaways!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on April 08, 2021, 12:59:09 PM
Interesting story for those who don't want to get the vaccine. While it doesn't apply to covid it shows there is a precedent there if some countries want to make covid vaccinations mandatory. Personally I don't think pubs/restaurants etc should require covid passports, but if' you're travelling abroad it should be mandatory due to the different mutations.   

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56669397

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 08, 2021, 01:01:27 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 08, 2021, 12:59:09 PM
Interesting story for those who don't want to get the vaccine. While it doesn't apply to covid it shows there is a precedent there if some countries want to make covid vaccinations mandatory. Personally I don't think pubs/restaurants etc should require covid passports, but if' you're travelling abroad it should be mandatory due to the different mutations.   

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56669397
Yeah there's probably an argument for vaccine passports to go on holidays, but domestically it is a ridiculous idea.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 08, 2021, 01:05:03 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 08, 2021, 12:19:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 07, 2021, 11:40:00 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 07, 2021, 11:16:03 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 07, 2021, 04:41:33 PM
There is lots of debate about domestic vaccine passports & the rights and wrongs of it.

I can see how some people say it will infringe on their rights and being able to live a normalish life and thats a fair point which will be heavily scrutinised.

Nah, they can fuk off with their rights.

The sensible have a right not to be in danger of infection from mutated variants that developed in unvaccinated idiots.

So people should not have the right to choose whether or not to take something that has been shown to cause blood clotting?

This is why zealots are dangerous.

People can choose to do what they like but to say that everyone else has to be OK with it is wrong!

Don't get vaccinated fair enough but don't expect to be getting on a plane/eating in a restaurant/drinking in a bar if you're likely to infect and kill people!

Hysteria and coercion.

The bolded bit is not the contribution of a normal person.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on April 08, 2021, 01:55:09 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 08, 2021, 01:01:27 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 08, 2021, 12:59:09 PM
Interesting story for those who don't want to get the vaccine. While it doesn't apply to covid it shows there is a precedent there if some countries want to make covid vaccinations mandatory. Personally I don't think pubs/restaurants etc should require covid passports, but if' you're travelling abroad it should be mandatory due to the different mutations.   

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56669397
Yeah there's probably an argument for vaccine passports to go on holidays, but domestically it is a ridiculous idea.

Vaccine passport for travel will happen, there's no argument for it not to. Pubs, restaurants etc will follow guidelines. Can't see a pub vaccine coming in. That's the rhetoric of the deranged, and very vocal minority ring wing, anti-vaxx etc. Yet they'll shout down the vast majority of folk who trust in the science and just want to do their bit to get things back to normal, calling them zealots, fascists etc. A more transparent playbook you'll not see.
Science they told us repeatedly has failed us. Science then plays a blinder and they're scrapping around the Internet for anything to support their warped logic. 2 of the GP Anne McCloskeys supporters, I seen them queued for their vaccines ffs!
Hard to admit you've been wrong when you've talking out your hole for 13 months.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 08, 2021, 02:09:20 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 08, 2021, 01:55:09 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 08, 2021, 01:01:27 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 08, 2021, 12:59:09 PM
Interesting story for those who don't want to get the vaccine. While it doesn't apply to covid it shows there is a precedent there if some countries want to make covid vaccinations mandatory. Personally I don't think pubs/restaurants etc should require covid passports, but if' you're travelling abroad it should be mandatory due to the different mutations.   

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56669397
Yeah there's probably an argument for vaccine passports to go on holidays, but domestically it is a ridiculous idea.

Vaccine passport for travel will happen, there's no argument for it not to. Pubs, restaurants etc will follow guidelines. Can't see a pub vaccine coming in. That's the rhetoric of the deranged, and very vocal minority ring wing, anti-vaxx etc. Yet they'll shout down the vast majority of folk who trust in the science and just want to do their bit to get things back to normal, calling them zealots, fascists etc. A more transparent playbook you'll not see.
Science they told us repeatedly has failed us. Science then plays a blinder and they're scrapping around the Internet for anything to support their warped logic. 2 of the GP Anne McCloskeys supporters, I seen them queued for their vaccines ffs!
Hard to admit you've been wrong when you've talking out your hole for 13 months.

See you're an extremist. You every bit as bad as anti-vaxxers.

There are deaths associated with vaccines, the AZ vaccine has been paused in many countries and have been limited in many countries. It's now been acknowledged that the AZ vaccine causes blood clotting, it is listed as a side effect and decisions are being made to not use it on people who are in age categories that are not at risk of Covid.

People do have grounds to be concerned about the vaccine and should have freedom of choice whether they want to take it without risk of being punished or coerced into it to access society.

This real whiff of right ring zealotry off your posts and you're actually the one going around misrepresenting the views of others and attaching labels at them because of the facts that are out there.

People will have their doubts but time and there is good reason why they might have. Zealots like you who want to coerce and shame people into getting the vaccine will only do harm to winning those with doubts around.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on April 08, 2021, 02:18:25 PM
(Pre-pandemic, but still)

"The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) has backed the Czech Republic in its requirement for mandatory pre-school vaccinations.

The case was brought by families who were fined or whose children were refused entry to pre-schools because they had not been vaccinated.

In a landmark ruling, the court found that while the Czech policy interfered with the right to a private life, there was a need to protect public health.

All the cases pre-date the pandemic."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56669397 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56669397)

Meanwhile:
"Covid deaths in England and Wales down 92% since peak"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-56672556 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-56672556)

There can be little doubt that Vaccination is by far the biggest factor behind the above.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 08, 2021, 02:20:12 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 08, 2021, 01:55:09 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 08, 2021, 01:01:27 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 08, 2021, 12:59:09 PM
Interesting story for those who don't want to get the vaccine. While it doesn't apply to covid it shows there is a precedent there if some countries want to make covid vaccinations mandatory. Personally I don't think pubs/restaurants etc should require covid passports, but if' you're travelling abroad it should be mandatory due to the different mutations.   

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56669397
Yeah there's probably an argument for vaccine passports to go on holidays, but domestically it is a ridiculous idea.

Vaccine passport for travel will happen, there's no argument for it not to. Pubs, restaurants etc will follow guidelines. Can't see a pub vaccine coming in. That's the rhetoric of the deranged, and very vocal minority ring wing, anti-vaxx etc. Yet they'll shout down the vast majority of folk who trust in the science and just want to do their bit to get things back to normal, calling them zealots, fascists etc. A more transparent playbook you'll not see.
Science they told us repeatedly has failed us. Science then plays a blinder and they're scrapping around the Internet for anything to support their warped logic. 2 of the GP Anne McCloskeys supporters, I seen them queued for their vaccines ffs!
Hard to admit you've been wrong when you've talking out your hole for 13 months.

I'm going to get my vaccination. I've no problem saying I hope others my age get it (20-29).

But I have a serious issue with domestic vaccine passports.

When people are vaccinated and we are told via leaks 80% is the magic number, which we will get to....What difference does it make who in the pub hasn't the vaccine when you have?

The vaccine clearly shows it helps reduce spread, it stops, I believe 100% of serious illness regarding Covid 19 (open to correction). Fantastic news, great to hear this kinda stuff. It's what we needed. Covid 19 is going to very soon, have nowhere to go, no weak to attack, no prey to pick.

We have been locked down long enough. Things god bless are getting better. But I fail to understand why there is this now insane demand for passports and rules and regulations. Christ, have we not had enough rules this last year? The vaccine is being consumed by basically all, we do not need these coercion tactics to enforce uptake.

The way to get people to take the vaccinations is via eductation, not their exclusion from society.

Some people are losing the run of themselves here to be honest.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 08, 2021, 02:21:50 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 08, 2021, 02:20:12 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 08, 2021, 01:55:09 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 08, 2021, 01:01:27 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 08, 2021, 12:59:09 PM
Interesting story for those who don't want to get the vaccine. While it doesn't apply to covid it shows there is a precedent there if some countries want to make covid vaccinations mandatory. Personally I don't think pubs/restaurants etc should require covid passports, but if' you're travelling abroad it should be mandatory due to the different mutations.   

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56669397
Yeah there's probably an argument for vaccine passports to go on holidays, but domestically it is a ridiculous idea.

Vaccine passport for travel will happen, there's no argument for it not to. Pubs, restaurants etc will follow guidelines. Can't see a pub vaccine coming in. That's the rhetoric of the deranged, and very vocal minority ring wing, anti-vaxx etc. Yet they'll shout down the vast majority of folk who trust in the science and just want to do their bit to get things back to normal, calling them zealots, fascists etc. A more transparent playbook you'll not see.
Science they told us repeatedly has failed us. Science then plays a blinder and they're scrapping around the Internet for anything to support their warped logic. 2 of the GP Anne McCloskeys supporters, I seen them queued for their vaccines ffs!
Hard to admit you've been wrong when you've talking out your hole for 13 months.

I'm going to get my vaccination. I've no problem saying I hope others my age get it (20-29).

But I have a serious issue with domestic vaccine passports.

When people are vaccinated and we are told via leaks 80% is the magic number, which we will get to....What difference does it make who in the pub hasn't the vaccine when you have?

The vaccine clearly shows it helps reduce spread, it stops, I believe 100% of serious illness regarding Covid 19 (open to correction). Fantastic news, great to hear this kinda stuff. It's what we needed. Covid 19 is going to very soon, have nowhere to go, no weak to attack, no prey to pick.

We have been locked down long enough. Things god bless are getting better. But I fail to understand why there is this now insane demand for passports and rules and regulations. Christ, have we not had enough rules this last year? The vaccine is being consumed by basically all, we do not need these coercion tactics to enforce uptake.

The way to get people to take the vaccinations is via eductation, not their exclusion from society.

Some people are losing the run of themselves here to be honest.
Excellent post. Agree 100%
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on April 08, 2021, 02:38:57 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 08, 2021, 02:20:12 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 08, 2021, 01:55:09 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 08, 2021, 01:01:27 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 08, 2021, 12:59:09 PM
Interesting story for those who don't want to get the vaccine. While it doesn't apply to covid it shows there is a precedent there if some countries want to make covid vaccinations mandatory. Personally I don't think pubs/restaurants etc should require covid passports, but if' you're travelling abroad it should be mandatory due to the different mutations.   

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56669397
Yeah there's probably an argument for vaccine passports to go on holidays, but domestically it is a ridiculous idea.

Vaccine passport for travel will happen, there's no argument for it not to. Pubs, restaurants etc will follow guidelines. Can't see a pub vaccine coming in. That's the rhetoric of the deranged, and very vocal minority ring wing, anti-vaxx etc. Yet they'll shout down the vast majority of folk who trust in the science and just want to do their bit to get things back to normal, calling them zealots, fascists etc. A more transparent playbook you'll not see.
Science they told us repeatedly has failed us. Science then plays a blinder and they're scrapping around the Internet for anything to support their warped logic. 2 of the GP Anne McCloskeys supporters, I seen them queued for their vaccines ffs!
Hard to admit you've been wrong when you've talking out your hole for 13 months.

I'm going to get my vaccination. I've no problem saying I hope others my age get it (20-29).

But I have a serious issue with domestic vaccine passports.

When people are vaccinated and we are told via leaks 80% is the magic number, which we will get to....What difference does it make who in the pub hasn't the vaccine when you have?

The vaccine clearly shows it helps reduce spread, it stops, I believe 100% of serious illness regarding Covid 19 (open to correction). Fantastic news, great to hear this kinda stuff. It's what we needed. Covid 19 is going to very soon, have nowhere to go, no weak to attack, no prey to pick.

We have been locked down long enough. Things god bless are getting better. But I fail to understand why there is this now insane demand for passports and rules and regulations. Christ, have we not had enough rules this last year? The vaccine is being consumed by basically all, we do not need these coercion tactics to enforce uptake.

The way to get people to take the vaccinations is via eductation, not their exclusion from society.

Some people are losing the run of themselves here to be honest.

Nobody will disagree we've been locked down too long, but it was a necessity. Is there an insane clamour for domestic passports and more rules and regulations? I can understand folk getting jittery as the end is in sight. Surely even travel vaccine passports will be consigned to the history books when Covid has been sorted?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on April 08, 2021, 03:43:32 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 08, 2021, 02:20:12 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 08, 2021, 01:55:09 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 08, 2021, 01:01:27 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 08, 2021, 12:59:09 PM
Interesting story for those who don't want to get the vaccine. While it doesn't apply to covid it shows there is a precedent there if some countries want to make covid vaccinations mandatory. Personally I don't think pubs/restaurants etc should require covid passports, but if' you're travelling abroad it should be mandatory due to the different mutations.   

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56669397
Yeah there's probably an argument for vaccine passports to go on holidays, but domestically it is a ridiculous idea.

Vaccine passport for travel will happen, there's no argument for it not to. Pubs, restaurants etc will follow guidelines. Can't see a pub vaccine coming in. That's the rhetoric of the deranged, and very vocal minority ring wing, anti-vaxx etc. Yet they'll shout down the vast majority of folk who trust in the science and just want to do their bit to get things back to normal, calling them zealots, fascists etc. A more transparent playbook you'll not see.
Science they told us repeatedly has failed us. Science then plays a blinder and they're scrapping around the Internet for anything to support their warped logic. 2 of the GP Anne McCloskeys supporters, I seen them queued for their vaccines ffs!
Hard to admit you've been wrong when you've talking out your hole for 13 months.

I'm going to get my vaccination. I've no problem saying I hope others my age get it (20-29).

But I have a serious issue with domestic vaccine passports.

When people are vaccinated and we are told via leaks 80% is the magic number, which we will get to....What difference does it make who in the pub hasn't the vaccine when you have?

The vaccine clearly shows it helps reduce spread, it stops, I believe 100% of serious illness regarding Covid 19 (open to correction). Fantastic news, great to hear this kinda stuff. It's what we needed. Covid 19 is going to very soon, have nowhere to go, no weak to attack, no prey to pick.

We have been locked down long enough. Things god bless are getting better. But I fail to understand why there is this now insane demand for passports and rules and regulations. Christ, have we not had enough rules this last year? The vaccine is being consumed by basically all, we do not need these coercion tactics to enforce uptake.

The way to get people to take the vaccinations is via eductation, not their exclusion from society.

Some people are losing the run of themselves here to be honest.

This is no longer about a virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 09, 2021, 11:15:35 AM
It's just not the same coming into this thread and not seeing a mad back and forth 3 more pages from the last time you read it :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 09, 2021, 11:29:28 AM
Thank God and Mods for small mercies ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 09, 2021, 12:04:59 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 08, 2021, 02:20:12 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 08, 2021, 01:55:09 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 08, 2021, 01:01:27 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on April 08, 2021, 12:59:09 PM
Interesting story for those who don't want to get the vaccine. While it doesn't apply to covid it shows there is a precedent there if some countries want to make covid vaccinations mandatory. Personally I don't think pubs/restaurants etc should require covid passports, but if' you're travelling abroad it should be mandatory due to the different mutations.   

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56669397
Yeah there's probably an argument for vaccine passports to go on holidays, but domestically it is a ridiculous idea.

Vaccine passport for travel will happen, there's no argument for it not to. Pubs, restaurants etc will follow guidelines. Can't see a pub vaccine coming in. That's the rhetoric of the deranged, and very vocal minority ring wing, anti-vaxx etc. Yet they'll shout down the vast majority of folk who trust in the science and just want to do their bit to get things back to normal, calling them zealots, fascists etc. A more transparent playbook you'll not see.
Science they told us repeatedly has failed us. Science then plays a blinder and they're scrapping around the Internet for anything to support their warped logic. 2 of the GP Anne McCloskeys supporters, I seen them queued for their vaccines ffs!
Hard to admit you've been wrong when you've talking out your hole for 13 months.

I'm going to get my vaccination. I've no problem saying I hope others my age get it (20-29).

But I have a serious issue with domestic vaccine passports.

When people are vaccinated and we are told via leaks 80% is the magic number, which we will get to....What difference does it make who in the pub hasn't the vaccine when you have?

The vaccine clearly shows it helps reduce spread, it stops, I believe 100% of serious illness regarding Covid 19 (open to correction). Fantastic news, great to hear this kinda stuff. It's what we needed. Covid 19 is going to very soon, have nowhere to go, no weak to attack, no prey to pick.

We have been locked down long enough. Things god bless are getting better. But I fail to understand why there is this now insane demand for passports and rules and regulations. Christ, have we not had enough rules this last year? The vaccine is being consumed by basically all, we do not need these coercion tactics to enforce uptake.

The way to get people to take the vaccinations is via eductation, not their exclusion from society.

Some people are losing the run of themselves here to be honest.

Same arguments were made about Seatbelts, Gun control, Smoking Ban, Drink Driving. People love a bit of government intervention in the shape of pounds, shillings and pence but when it about trying to stop the spread of a deadly disease then that's a step too far.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 09, 2021, 05:53:44 PM
What about Texas Covid??
Fauci can't quite explain it
Open this 5 weeks fully
No masks no social distance
Full house at a baseball match
Cases plummeted??
Even the great Milly won't be able to explain that one

Stop testing please
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on April 09, 2021, 06:23:15 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 09, 2021, 05:53:44 PM
What about Texas Covid??
Fauci can't quite explain it
Open this 5 weeks fully
No masks no social distance
Full house at a baseball match
Cases plummeted??
Even the great Milly won't be able to explain that one

Stop testing please

There have been lots of places people thought were anomalies like India and Sweden. Over time their numbers have gone through the roof just the same as most other places. Outdoor transmission is way, way lower than indoors so Texas has a natural advantage being hot giving people the opportunity to socialise outdoors. The USA has done really well with the vaccines so that helps also. Having said that if some of the more easily spread variants take hold the numbers in Texas will quickly rise also.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 09, 2021, 07:07:55 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 09, 2021, 05:53:44 PM
What about Texas Covid??
Fauci can't quite explain it
Open this 5 weeks fully
No masks no social distance
Full house at a baseball match
Cases plummeted??
Even the great Milly won't be able to explain that one

Stop testing please

Much of Texas has a nice climate in April, like an Irish summer and people are out and about. In a couple of months when it is 40C people will head indoors and crank up the aircon and the virus will spread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 10, 2021, 05:57:00 PM
India having issues with rises of cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on April 10, 2021, 06:58:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 10, 2021, 05:57:00 PM
India having issues with rises of cases.

Where's angelo? He's been all over india and their laizzez fair approach to lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 10, 2021, 08:06:04 PM
Banned along with Sid ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on April 11, 2021, 04:22:24 PM
ROI weekly update. Another good week in regards to the decline in cases and continued improvement in hospital numbers.

Cases 2817 (821 fewer than last week)
Reported Deaths 71 (19 more than last week. 3 of those deaths occurred in December, 12 in January, 30 in February, 12 in March and 14 in April.

In hospital 213 (29 fewer than a week ago)
In ICU 53 (5 fewer than last Sunday)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 11, 2021, 09:30:15 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 08, 2021, 09:01:00 AM
Na. If I'm vaccinated it's none of my business who else is and isn't. Trying to force people to take a vaccine is vile.

You've not been paying attention.

Viruses mutate. Given enough time and opportunity, they will mutate to a form which escapes the current vaccines.

Where are they going to mutate? In those that don't have the vaccine(s). Particularly if there are enough idiots to allow consistent and continuous spreading of the thing.

Hence why its important EVERYONE gets it - not just here, but across the world.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on April 12, 2021, 09:22:24 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 11, 2021, 04:22:24 PM
ROI weekly update. Another good week in regards to the decline in cases and continued improvement in hospital numbers.

Cases 2817 (821 fewer than last week)
Reported Deaths 71 (19 more than last week. 3 of those deaths occurred in December, 12 in January, 30 in February, 12 in March and 14 in April.

In hospital 213 (29 fewer than a week ago)
In ICU 53 (5 fewer than last Sunday)
Thanks for these updates every week CF.

Letting the rest of secondary school students back in is beyond my comprehension when we're getting close to the end. Especially in Dublin where class sizes are generally big, teens spread just as much as adults. So having 20-30 people in the same room for an hour at a time, a number of times a day, just makes no feckin sense.

On the other hand, all outdoor activities should be open, with precautions (no changing rooms, people in separate bubbles to travel separately etc)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 12:43:28 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 11, 2021, 09:30:15 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 08, 2021, 09:01:00 AM
Na. If I'm vaccinated it's none of my business who else is and isn't. Trying to force people to take a vaccine is vile.

You've not been paying attention.

Viruses mutate. Given enough time and opportunity, they will mutate to a form which escapes the current vaccines.

Where are they going to mutate? In those that don't have the vaccine(s). Particularly if there are enough idiots to allow consistent and continuous spreading of the thing.

Hence why its important EVERYONE gets it - not just here, but across the world.

You cannot force people to take the vaccine, simple. End of. Nothing more to be discussed there. Thankfully, at that.

Should they take it? Sure.

Fact is, and this is unquestionable, the vaccine producers are not liable for any adverse reaction to the vaccine. That alone will always see a (small) number of folk wary and if they admit it or not, afraid. So for you to be saying they MUST get it, is the wrong approach and only entrenches people further against your viewpoint. What gives you the right to tell people they have to take something into their body?

Factor in a survival rate of 99% something versus a mixture of fear, the fact you can still get/spread Covid even after the vaccine and the fact some people just don't really see it as a threat full stop. I would say the uptake on the vaccine has been an astounding success. We don't need to force feed it to people as herd immunity will be pretty much achieved by every country I would imagine as most people are quite happy to take it. And that is great news.

The vaccines are experimental. For you to be demanding uptake is just wrong. The eventual science and data will hopefully get those fearful "on board".

Everyone is entitled to their view. We are going to get life back to normal one way or the other. Let people get to the decision on their own beit wanting to take the vaccine or not. Your point is that "idiots" will allow consistent and continuous spread is kinda mute, since you can catch Covid even after being fully vaccinated anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 12, 2021, 01:19:36 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 12:43:28 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 11, 2021, 09:30:15 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 08, 2021, 09:01:00 AM
Na. If I'm vaccinated it's none of my business who else is and isn't. Trying to force people to take a vaccine is vile.

You've not been paying attention.

Viruses mutate. Given enough time and opportunity, they will mutate to a form which escapes the current vaccines.

Where are they going to mutate? In those that don't have the vaccine(s). Particularly if there are enough idiots to allow consistent and continuous spreading of the thing.

Hence why its important EVERYONE gets it - not just here, but across the world.

You cannot force people to take the vaccine, simple. End of. Nothing more to be discussed there. Thankfully, at that.

Should they take it? Sure.

Fact is, and this is unquestionable, the vaccine producers are not liable for any adverse reaction to the vaccine. That alone will always see a (small) number of folk wary and if they admit it or not, afraid. So for you to be saying they MUST get it, is the wrong approach and only entrenches people further against your viewpoint. What gives you the right to tell people they have to take something into their body?

Factor in a survival rate of 99% something versus a mixture of fear, the fact you can still get/spread Covid even after the vaccine and the fact some people just don't really see it as a threat full stop. I would say the uptake on the vaccine has been an astounding success. We don't need to force feed it to people as herd immunity will be pretty much achieved by every country I would imagine as most people are quite happy to take it. And that is great news.

The vaccines are experimental. For you to be demanding uptake is just wrong. The eventual science and data will hopefully get those fearful "on board".

Everyone is entitled to their view. We are going to get life back to normal one way or the other. Let people get to the decision on their own beit wanting to take the vaccine or not. Your point is that "idiots" will allow consistent and continuous spread is kinda mute, since you can catch Covid even after being fully vaccinated anyway.
Yeah I'd pretty much agree with all of that. Seeing reports of a lot of people heading to a&e with mild vaccine side effects on advice of their gp. Hopefully just people being overly cautious.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2021, 01:21:46 PM
I'm comfortable with people not being forced to take the vaccine provided the refusers accept they give up the right to access cinemas, pubs, concert venues, holidays etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 01:40:52 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2021, 01:21:46 PM
I'm comfortable with people not being forced to take the vaccine provided the refusers accept they give up the right to access cinemas, pubs, concert venues, holidays etc.

Basically pin the yellow star on them then?

This type of thinking is insane. You are saying you want to isolate people from society, who won't take an experimental vaccine, as is their right for something, they most likely will never even get anyway?

I can't for the life of me understand, after this last year and whatever. Demanding people are excluded from society, for the potential spread of something they may not even have, let alone know they have when you will be protected from serious illness anyway due to having the privilege of being vaccinated.

While we are it, might as well carpet bomb the Africans. 

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on April 12, 2021, 01:45:14 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2021, 01:21:46 PM
I'm comfortable with people not being forced to take the vaccine provided the refusers accept they give up the right to access cinemas, pubs, concert venues, holidays etc.

So you're happy to discriminate against people who won't take a dodgy as fcuk jab? Wow.
Maybe you should read a history book or 2.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on April 12, 2021, 01:49:00 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 12, 2021, 01:45:14 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2021, 01:21:46 PM
I'm comfortable with people not being forced to take the vaccine provided the refusers accept they give up the right to access cinemas, pubs, concert venues, holidays etc.

So you're happy to discriminate against people who won't take a dodgy as fcuk jab? Wow.
Maybe you should read a history book or 2.

Why is it dodgy?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 12, 2021, 01:57:05 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 01:40:52 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2021, 01:21:46 PM
I'm comfortable with people not being forced to take the vaccine provided the refusers accept they give up the right to access cinemas, pubs, concert venues, holidays etc.

Basically pin the yellow star on them then?

This type of thinking is insane. You are saying you want to isolate people from society, who won't take an experimental vaccine, as is their right for something, they most likely will never even get anyway?

I can't for the life of me understand, after this last year and whatever. Demanding people are excluded from society, for the potential spread of something they may not even have, let alone know they have when you will be protected from serious illness anyway due to having the privilege of being vaccinated.

While we are it, might as well carpet bomb the Africans.
The other side is that people who aren't taking the jab and are happy to sit back and let others in society take the risk but still want to reap all the benefits. The reality is that if everyone thought like this Covid would be here to stay for a long time.
I don't believe in forcing someone to take the jab. But I do believe those healthy people who don't are selfish and not prepared to help society.
If not an experimental jab btw. It's approved.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 02:05:30 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 12, 2021, 01:57:05 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 01:40:52 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2021, 01:21:46 PM
I'm comfortable with people not being forced to take the vaccine provided the refusers accept they give up the right to access cinemas, pubs, concert venues, holidays etc.

Basically pin the yellow star on them then?

This type of thinking is insane. You are saying you want to isolate people from society, who won't take an experimental vaccine, as is their right for something, they most likely will never even get anyway?

I can't for the life of me understand, after this last year and whatever. Demanding people are excluded from society, for the potential spread of something they may not even have, let alone know they have when you will be protected from serious illness anyway due to having the privilege of being vaccinated.

While we are it, might as well carpet bomb the Africans.
The other side is that people who aren't taking the jab and are happy to sit back and let others in society take the risk but still want to reap all the benefits. The reality is that if everyone thought like this Covid would be here to stay for a long time.
I don't believe in forcing someone to take the jab. But I do believe those healthy people who don't are selfish and not prepared to help society.
If not an experimental jab btw. It's approved.

It's approved with no liability. I would call that experimental, but a form of words. Either or.

Experimental perhaps slights it that I am anti vaxx, of course I am not. I will be getting it when my turn allows. I have detested this way of living for over a year now.

If someone doesn't want to take it, what can we do? You cannot toss them into some kind of underground world - go live on the outskirts of town, not allowed in stuff. It's the same as smoking, everyone knows it kills, but it's their choice if they put that shite in their lungs. All we can do is hope not to get a bit of 2nd hand stuff on the streets. Obviously a bit of a stretch, but you get the idea regarding freedom of choice. Covid might kill quicker than smoking, but both still kill.

What do we do with u18s? They make up about a quarter of each countries populations, will they ever get vaccinated? What about the pregnant? Those that medically can't take the vaccine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2021, 02:15:46 PM
If 40 odd million started taking aspirin would there be reactions from people that had never taken it before? Or would it be grand?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on April 12, 2021, 02:18:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2021, 02:15:46 PM
If 40 odd million started taking aspirin would there be reactions from people that had never taken it before? Or would it be grand?
I think the aspirin would have a sore head if some of the people on here took it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 12, 2021, 02:36:24 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 01:40:52 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2021, 01:21:46 PM
I'm comfortable with people not being forced to take the vaccine provided the refusers accept they give up the right to access cinemas, pubs, concert venues, holidays etc.

Basically pin the yellow star on them then?

This type of thinking is insane. You are saying you want to isolate people from society, who won't take an experimental vaccine, as is their right for something, they most likely will never even get anyway?

I can't for the life of me understand, after this last year and whatever. Demanding people are excluded from society, for the potential spread of something they may not even have, let alone know they have when you will be protected from serious illness anyway due to having the privilege of being vaccinated.

While we are it, might as well carpet bomb the Africans.

GOTB have you ever or would you be happy enough to get a vaccine to visit certain countries?

You have to get jabs to visit certain countries (pre Covid) - if you dont want the jab dont visit that place.

Can you see something similar or are you talking about purely domestic venues?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 12, 2021, 02:43:22 PM
Open question to those against vaccine passports for pubs etc, are you against it because you don't want to get the vaccine or is it because it's the state intervening?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 12, 2021, 03:17:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 12, 2021, 02:43:22 PM
Open question to those against vaccine passports for pubs etc, are you against it because you don't want to get the vaccine or is it because it's the state intervening?
State intervening. I'll take the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 12, 2021, 03:17:28 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 02:05:30 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 12, 2021, 01:57:05 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 01:40:52 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2021, 01:21:46 PM
I'm comfortable with people not being forced to take the vaccine provided the refusers accept they give up the right to access cinemas, pubs, concert venues, holidays etc.

Basically pin the yellow star on them then?

This type of thinking is insane. You are saying you want to isolate people from society, who won't take an experimental vaccine, as is their right for something, they most likely will never even get anyway?

I can't for the life of me understand, after this last year and whatever. Demanding people are excluded from society, for the potential spread of something they may not even have, let alone know they have when you will be protected from serious illness anyway due to having the privilege of being vaccinated.

While we are it, might as well carpet bomb the Africans.
The other side is that people who aren't taking the jab and are happy to sit back and let others in society take the risk but still want to reap all the benefits. The reality is that if everyone thought like this Covid would be here to stay for a long time.
I don't believe in forcing someone to take the jab. But I do believe those healthy people who don't are selfish and not prepared to help society.
If not an experimental jab btw. It's approved.

It's approved with no liability. I would call that experimental, but a form of words. Either or.

Experimental perhaps slights it that I am anti vaxx, of course I am not. I will be getting it when my turn allows. I have detested this way of living for over a year now.

If someone doesn't want to take it, what can we do? You cannot toss them into some kind of underground world - go live on the outskirts of town, not allowed in stuff. It's the same as smoking, everyone knows it kills, but it's their choice if they put that shite in their lungs. All we can do is hope not to get a bit of 2nd hand stuff on the streets. Obviously a bit of a stretch, but you get the idea regarding freedom of choice. Covid might kill quicker than smoking, but both still kill.

What do we do with u18s? They make up about a quarter of each countries populations, will they ever get vaccinated? What about the pregnant? Those that medically can't take the vaccine?
It's not experimental, in that it has been passed through the regulatory process. It has been through trials.

If there's a health reason why you shouldn't then I don't think anyone has an issue with that. However if you are fit, healthy and offered a vaccine but decide not to then imo it's selfish.
The reality is that international travel will most likely require a covid passport. I have no issue with that. If the government decide that other local restrictions are required as well, then again I have no issue with that either. Tough decision have been made to be made to prevent the spread of covid.
The reality is that, especially with the data coming out of how a vaccine can also reduce the spread as well as the severity of the illness, those not taking a vaccine are putting more risk on everyone else. That sits no easier with me than a vaccine passport to be honest. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on April 12, 2021, 03:31:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 12, 2021, 02:43:22 PM
Open question to those against vaccine passports for pubs etc, are you against it because you don't want to get the vaccine or is it because it's the state intervening?
Very few people (though not none) who take the vaccine will be against the vaccine passport, though there will be people who say the only reason they are against vaccine passports is state intervention.

Seems very odd that the vaccine doesn't give an exemption from quarantining. I'm all for travel quarantining, and I think it should be worldwide, but I've a mate in the US in his 40s who has just got his second vaccine dose and wants to come home in June and see his folks (who will be getting their second shot in the next week or so). Under the rules at the moment he'd have to quarantine for 2 weeks on arrival - that makes no sense to me! 

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 12, 2021, 03:49:15 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 12, 2021, 03:31:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 12, 2021, 02:43:22 PM
Open question to those against vaccine passports for pubs etc, are you against it because you don't want to get the vaccine or is it because it's the state intervening?
Very few people (though not none) who take the vaccine will be against the vaccine passport, though there will be people who say the only reason they are against vaccine passports is state intervention.

Seems very odd that the vaccine doesn't give an exemption from quarantining. I'm all for travel quarantining, and I think it should be worldwide, but I've a mate in the US in his 40s who has just got his second vaccine dose and wants to come home in June and see his folks (who will be getting their second shot in the next week or so). Under the rules at the moment he'd have to quarantine for 2 weeks on arrival - that makes no sense to me!
I think these sort of things will be sorted in the long run. It makes no sense as you say, but they've been 1 step behind in all things Covid if you ask me. And it nearly takes something like this to be raised for it to be addressed rather than some strategic thinking and planning. Once international travel comes to the fore again I'd imagine a much more structured process would be put in place and issues like this will be ironed out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 04:17:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 12, 2021, 02:36:24 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 01:40:52 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2021, 01:21:46 PM
I'm comfortable with people not being forced to take the vaccine provided the refusers accept they give up the right to access cinemas, pubs, concert venues, holidays etc.

Basically pin the yellow star on them then?

This type of thinking is insane. You are saying you want to isolate people from society, who won't take an experimental vaccine, as is their right for something, they most likely will never even get anyway?

I can't for the life of me understand, after this last year and whatever. Demanding people are excluded from society, for the potential spread of something they may not even have, let alone know they have when you will be protected from serious illness anyway due to having the privilege of being vaccinated.

While we are it, might as well carpet bomb the Africans.

GOTB have you ever or would you be happy enough to get a vaccine to visit certain countries?

You have to get jabs to visit certain countries (pre Covid) - if you dont want the jab dont visit that place.

Can you see something similar or are you talking about purely domestic venues?

I have got a vaccine to travel before, I've no problem with that - I expect it to be a feature of life going forward. Countries have the right to protect themselves from all threats don't they?

As I say, I will get the vaccine myself.

I am talking purely domestic. The ideas here of people being banned from doing X,Y,Z because they don't get the vaccine doesn't sit easy with me. Especially since basically everyone is getting it anyway.

I don't think people should be hammered for what they believe in, might be in fear of...etc. What's next? I just think it's a very slippery slope legislatively and not one we should be encouraging.

I mean we are talking about something 99% survive, everything we were ever told was to save the Health Services....the Govt never cared if you had Covid and could ride it out at home, so why the rush now to have every single person, in a venue, with likely 99% vaccinated knowing who the 1% is, or even worse, the 1% excluded from society.

Covid killed 1% of the people infected, we have brought life as we know it an utter standstill.

Now we are happy to exclude 1% (or more) because they may be in fear / don't want to take a risk?

It doesn't make sense.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 12, 2021, 05:04:39 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 04:17:20 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 12, 2021, 02:36:24 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 01:40:52 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2021, 01:21:46 PM
I'm comfortable with people not being forced to take the vaccine provided the refusers accept they give up the right to access cinemas, pubs, concert venues, holidays etc.

Basically pin the yellow star on them then?

This type of thinking is insane. You are saying you want to isolate people from society, who won't take an experimental vaccine, as is their right for something, they most likely will never even get anyway?

I can't for the life of me understand, after this last year and whatever. Demanding people are excluded from society, for the potential spread of something they may not even have, let alone know they have when you will be protected from serious illness anyway due to having the privilege of being vaccinated.

While we are it, might as well carpet bomb the Africans.

GOTB have you ever or would you be happy enough to get a vaccine to visit certain countries?

You have to get jabs to visit certain countries (pre Covid) - if you dont want the jab dont visit that place.

Can you see something similar or are you talking about purely domestic venues?

I have got a vaccine to travel before, I've no problem with that - I expect it to be a feature of life going forward. Countries have the right to protect themselves from all threats don't they?

As I say, I will get the vaccine myself.

I am talking purely domestic. The ideas here of people being banned from doing X,Y,Z because they don't get the vaccine doesn't sit easy with me. Especially since basically everyone is getting it anyway.

I don't think people should be hammered for what they believe in, might be in fear of...etc. What's next? I just think it's a very slippery slope legislatively and not one we should be encouraging.

I mean we are talking about something 99% survive, everything we were ever told was to save the Health Services....the Govt never cared if you had Covid and could ride it out at home, so why the rush now to have every single person, in a venue, with likely 99% vaccinated knowing who the 1% is, or even worse, the 1% excluded from society.

Covid killed 1% of the people infected, we have brought life as we know it an utter standstill.

Now we are happy to exclude 1% (or more) because they may be in fear / don't want to take a risk?

It doesn't make sense.

Firstly you are playing down Covid. 1% is a huge amount if enough people are infected as we have seen. The issue with Covid was how infectious it is, how quickly it spread. That shouldn't need to be repeated.

You are removing any responsibility for the people who don't want to get the vaccine. I don't know anyone who was thinking, "this is great another vaccine for us". But you know what, people will get it to get back to a life somewhat similar to what we had previously. If enough people decided not to get it then the vaccine program doesn't work. So if a vaccine passport scheme incentivises this then so be it. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 05:47:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 12, 2021, 01:57:05 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 01:40:52 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2021, 01:21:46 PM
I'm comfortable with people not being forced to take the vaccine provided the refusers accept they give up the right to access cinemas, pubs, concert venues, holidays etc.

Basically pin the yellow star on them then?

This type of thinking is insane. You are saying you want to isolate people from society, who won't take an experimental vaccine, as is their right for something, they most likely will never even get anyway?

I can't for the life of me understand, after this last year and whatever. Demanding people are excluded from society, for the potential spread of something they may not even have, let alone know they have when you will be protected from serious illness anyway due to having the privilege of being vaccinated.

While we are it, might as well carpet bomb the Africans.
The other side is that people who aren't taking the jab and are happy to sit back and let others in society take the risk but still want to reap all the benefits. The reality is that if everyone thought like this Covid would be here to stay for a long time.
I don't believe in forcing someone to take the jab. But I do believe those healthy people who don't are selfish and not prepared to help society.
If not an experimental jab btw. It's approved.

Aye, and what did governments do to help me, you and the rest of society? F**ked about, letting thousands in and out early days, and the virus out of control. Thousands of needless deaths, everyone of them, the blame lies at politicians doors.

There should be no need for any of us to take this vaccine because the virus should, have been kept out. NZ and Australia have it under control, as well as lots of other island nations. New Zealander's are able to live their lives because their leaders did the right things.  But because the useless w**kers on this island f**ked about, now it's all up to everyone of us to do what's right for society? You can f**k right off.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2021, 06:00:46 PM
So they won't be getting the vaccine in New Zealand or Australia? News to me

The governments worldwide bar those two did the same thing. They didn't take it seriously at the start and let it rip with the likes of Cheltenham football and rugby, kept flights open and so on.

Old news it's happened and as you say countless deaths, now the only positive spin from this is the roll out of the vaccine, which may bring this under manageable control regarding deaths and hospital admissions.

But you'd rather not take the vaccine and invent a time machine and go back and stop it leaving China?

Or get the vaccine and have the economy open up?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 12, 2021, 06:04:44 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 05:47:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 12, 2021, 01:57:05 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 01:40:52 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2021, 01:21:46 PM
I'm comfortable with people not being forced to take the vaccine provided the refusers accept they give up the right to access cinemas, pubs, concert venues, holidays etc.

Basically pin the yellow star on them then?

This type of thinking is insane. You are saying you want to isolate people from society, who won't take an experimental vaccine, as is their right for something, they most likely will never even get anyway?

I can't for the life of me understand, after this last year and whatever. Demanding people are excluded from society, for the potential spread of something they may not even have, let alone know they have when you will be protected from serious illness anyway due to having the privilege of being vaccinated.

While we are it, might as well carpet bomb the Africans.
The other side is that people who aren't taking the jab and are happy to sit back and let others in society take the risk but still want to reap all the benefits. The reality is that if everyone thought like this Covid would be here to stay for a long time.
I don't believe in forcing someone to take the jab. But I do believe those healthy people who don't are selfish and not prepared to help society.
If not an experimental jab btw. It's approved.

Aye, and what did governments do to help me, you and the rest of society? F**ked about, letting thousands in and out early days, and the virus out of control. Thousands of needless deaths, everyone of them, the blame lies at politicians doors.

There should be no need for any of us to take this vaccine because the virus should, have been kept out. NZ and Australia have it under control, as well as lots of other island nations. New Zealander's are able to live their lives because their leaders did the right things.  But because the useless w**kers on this island f**ked about, now it's all up to everyone of us to do what's right for society? You can f**k right off.

You do know they are also vaccinating in those countries as well benny?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 12, 2021, 06:05:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 05:47:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 12, 2021, 01:57:05 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 01:40:52 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2021, 01:21:46 PM
I'm comfortable with people not being forced to take the vaccine provided the refusers accept they give up the right to access cinemas, pubs, concert venues, holidays etc.

Basically pin the yellow star on them then?

This type of thinking is insane. You are saying you want to isolate people from society, who won't take an experimental vaccine, as is their right for something, they most likely will never even get anyway?

I can't for the life of me understand, after this last year and whatever. Demanding people are excluded from society, for the potential spread of something they may not even have, let alone know they have when you will be protected from serious illness anyway due to having the privilege of being vaccinated.

While we are it, might as well carpet bomb the Africans.
The other side is that people who aren't taking the jab and are happy to sit back and let others in society take the risk but still want to reap all the benefits. The reality is that if everyone thought like this Covid would be here to stay for a long time.
I don't believe in forcing someone to take the jab. But I do believe those healthy people who don't are selfish and not prepared to help society.
If not an experimental jab btw. It's approved.

Aye, and what did governments do to help me, you and the rest of society? F**ked about, letting thousands in and out early days, and the virus out of control. Thousands of needless deaths, everyone of them, the blame lies at politicians doors.

There should be no need for any of us to take this vaccine because the virus should, have been kept out. NZ and Australia have it under control, as well as lots of other island nations. New Zealander's are able to live their lives because their leaders did the right things.  But because the useless w**kers on this island f**ked about, now it's all up to everyone of us to do what's right for society? You can f**k right off.

Couple of things. Firstly you'll get no argument from me about how badly the politicians dealt with Covid. None whatsoever.
Are you under the illusion that Australia arent trying to vaccine people? They are getting abuse about how slowly they are doing it. How they have contained it up to now (and they have shown us how it should be done) doesn't impact the fact that they are still vaccinating. They know that is the long term solution.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2021, 07:14:19 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 12, 2021, 01:45:14 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2021, 01:21:46 PM
I'm comfortable with people not being forced to take the vaccine provided the refusers accept they give up the right to access cinemas, pubs, concert venues, holidays etc.

So you're happy to discriminate against people who won't take a dodgy as fcuk jab? Wow.
Maybe you should read a history book or 2.
Yes. Some pubs and clubs used to discriminate against people who wore trainers or a soccer jersey. If you wanted in you didnt wear trainers or a Celtic jersey. All very simple stuff imo. If you want access, you follow the house rules. If you don't you sit in the house or chance your arm elsewhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on April 12, 2021, 07:58:01 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 12, 2021, 02:36:24 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 01:40:52 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2021, 01:21:46 PM
I'm comfortable with people not being forced to take the vaccine provided the refusers accept they give up the right to access cinemas, pubs, concert venues, holidays etc.

Basically pin the yellow star on them then?

This type of thinking is insane. You are saying you want to isolate people from society, who won't take an experimental vaccine, as is their right for something, they most likely will never even get anyway?

I can't for the life of me understand, after this last year and whatever. Demanding people are excluded from society, for the potential spread of something they may not even have, let alone know they have when you will be protected from serious illness anyway due to having the privilege of being vaccinated.

While we are it, might as well carpet bomb the Africans.

GOTB have you ever or would you be happy enough to get a vaccine to visit certain countries?

You have to get jabs to visit certain countries (pre Covid) - if you dont want the jab dont visit that place.

Can you see something similar or are you talking about purely domestic venues?

This is already the case in the US in some areas.

Kids cannot go to school in New York if they don't have their childhood vaccines. Good luck getting a job teaching them if you don't your boosters up to date either.

And even with the large Jewish population, certain sections of which are anti-vax, I've never heard "yellow stars" being mentioned here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 08:53:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 12, 2021, 07:58:01 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 12, 2021, 02:36:24 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 01:40:52 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2021, 01:21:46 PM
I'm comfortable with people not being forced to take the vaccine provided the refusers accept they give up the right to access cinemas, pubs, concert venues, holidays etc.

Basically pin the yellow star on them then?

This type of thinking is insane. You are saying you want to isolate people from society, who won't take an experimental vaccine, as is their right for something, they most likely will never even get anyway?

I can't for the life of me understand, after this last year and whatever. Demanding people are excluded from society, for the potential spread of something they may not even have, let alone know they have when you will be protected from serious illness anyway due to having the privilege of being vaccinated.

While we are it, might as well carpet bomb the Africans.

GOTB have you ever or would you be happy enough to get a vaccine to visit certain countries?

You have to get jabs to visit certain countries (pre Covid) - if you dont want the jab dont visit that place.

Can you see something similar or are you talking about purely domestic venues?

This is already the case in the US in some areas.

Kids cannot go to school in New York if they don't have their childhood vaccines. Good luck getting a job teaching them if you don't your boosters up to date either.

And even with the large Jewish population, certain sections of which are anti-vax, I've never heard "yellow stars" being mentioned here.

We have people on this thread basically saying if someone for whatever reason doesn't want the vaccine they should be banned from society and segregated.

How much closer to it do we need?

Thankfully it's the type of view nobody would ever put their real name and face to so it's likely to gain much traction (although you'll always have someone trying to make a name for themselves) in popular society.

If anyone has this particular view I would actually like them to elaborate how this would work, do they stay in their own ghetto in Roscommon or wherever out of the road, banned from entering neighbouring counties?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 12, 2021, 09:03:29 PM
QuoteWe have people on this thread basically saying if someone for whatever reason doesn't want the vaccine they should be banned from society and segregated.

Hysterical nonsense! Nobody would be segregated in that scenario, they'd be making a choice. If I chose not to get a driving licence I'd be restricted from driving a car and have to live with the constraints associated with that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 09:16:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2021, 06:00:46 PM
So they won't be getting the vaccine in New Zealand or Australia? News to me

The governments worldwide bar those two did the same thing. They didn't take it seriously at the start and let it rip with the likes of Cheltenham football and rugby, kept flights open and so on.

Old news it's happened and as you say countless deaths, now the only positive spin from this is the roll out of the vaccine, which may bring this under manageable control regarding deaths and hospital admissions.

But you'd rather not take the vaccine and invent a time machine and go back and stop it leaving China?

Or get the vaccine and have the economy open up?

But why would you need to get the vaccine if you lived in NZ? If you want to leave the country, then maybe. But if the borders are controlled, strict quarantine/testing in place, then there'd be no need to get the vaccine.

Never mind Cheltenham. It was reported that 100,000 came into Ireland in January from abroad. You can make some allowances for not getting it right at the start, but 100,00 people allowed into the country nearly a year into the pandemic? Holy suffering f**k!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on April 12, 2021, 09:31:00 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 09:16:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2021, 06:00:46 PM
So they won't be getting the vaccine in New Zealand or Australia? News to me

The governments worldwide bar those two did the same thing. They didn't take it seriously at the start and let it rip with the likes of Cheltenham football and rugby, kept flights open and so on.

Old news it's happened and as you say countless deaths, now the only positive spin from this is the roll out of the vaccine, which may bring this under manageable control regarding deaths and hospital admissions.

But you'd rather not take the vaccine and invent a time machine and go back and stop it leaving China?

Or get the vaccine and have the economy open up?

But why would you need to get the vaccine if you lived in NZ? If you want to leave the country, then maybe. But if the borders are controlled, strict quarantine/testing in place, then there'd be no need to get the vaccine.

Never mind Cheltenham. It was reported that 100,000 came into Ireland in January from abroad. You can make some allowances for not getting it right at the start, but 100,00 people allowed into the country nearly a year into the pandemic? Holy suffering f**k!

NZ etc want and need to get back to normality, to allow millions of tourists back in and New Zealanders out, ex pats returning or visiting home and the like. Re them not needing a vaccine, you must be having a laugh, no?
What do you reckon re other vaccines, will we knock the likes of the MMR vaccine on the head too? Must cost a serious amount of cash year on year
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 12, 2021, 09:49:57 PM
They're not going to close their borders forever. Tbh border wise they should have shut them here. They have never been prepared to and really this thing has had the legs it has had due to that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2021, 09:54:06 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 09:16:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2021, 06:00:46 PM
So they won't be getting the vaccine in New Zealand or Australia? News to me

The governments worldwide bar those two did the same thing. They didn't take it seriously at the start and let it rip with the likes of Cheltenham football and rugby, kept flights open and so on.

Old news it's happened and as you say countless deaths, now the only positive spin from this is the roll out of the vaccine, which may bring this under manageable control regarding deaths and hospital admissions.

But you'd rather not take the vaccine and invent a time machine and go back and stop it leaving China?

Or get the vaccine and have the economy open up?

But why would you need to get the vaccine if you lived in NZ? If you want to leave the country, then maybe. But if the borders are controlled, strict quarantine/testing in place, then there'd be no need to get the vaccine.

Never mind Cheltenham. It was reported that 100,000 came into Ireland in January from abroad. You can make some allowances for not getting it right at the start, but 100,00 people allowed into the country nearly a year into the pandemic? Holy suffering f**k!

Are you serious or has your account been taken over by Angelo!Smurphy/seaney?

So by your logic, everyone in NZ stays there for ever? Australia too? Bizarre
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 10:17:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2021, 09:54:06 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 09:16:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2021, 06:00:46 PM
So they won't be getting the vaccine in New Zealand or Australia? News to me

The governments worldwide bar those two did the same thing. They didn't take it seriously at the start and let it rip with the likes of Cheltenham football and rugby, kept flights open and so on.

Old news it's happened and as you say countless deaths, now the only positive spin from this is the roll out of the vaccine, which may bring this under manageable control regarding deaths and hospital admissions.

But you'd rather not take the vaccine and invent a time machine and go back and stop it leaving China?

Or get the vaccine and have the economy open up?

But why would you need to get the vaccine if you lived in NZ? If you want to leave the country, then maybe. But if the borders are controlled, strict quarantine/testing in place, then there'd be no need to get the vaccine.

Never mind Cheltenham. It was reported that 100,000 came into Ireland in January from abroad. You can make some allowances for not getting it right at the start, but 100,00 people allowed into the country nearly a year into the pandemic? Holy suffering f**k!

Are you serious or has your account been taken over by Angelo!Smurphy/seaney?

So by your logic, everyone in NZ stays there for ever? Australia too? Bizarre
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2021, 10:21:04 PM
So only get the vaccine if you leave the country? It's ok for people from NZ to get a vaccine passport but everyone else it's an attack on their civil liberties!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:34:06 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 12:43:28 PM
The vaccines are experimental.

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 01:40:52 PM
You are saying you want to isolate people from society, who won't take an experimental vaccine,
What do you mean by "experimental"?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 10:39:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2021, 10:21:04 PM
So only get the vaccine if you leave the country? It's ok for people from NZ to get a vaccine passport but everyone else it's an attack on their civil liberties!

I didn't mention a vaccine passport.

It should be up to the person themselves if they want to get it before leaving the country.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 05:47:29 PM
Aye, and what did governments do to help me, you and the rest of society? F**ked about, letting thousands in and out early days, and the virus out of control. Thousands of needless deaths, everyone of them, the blame lies at politicians doors.

There should be no need for any of us to take this vaccine because the virus should, have been kept out. NZ and Australia have it under control, as well as lots of other island nations. New Zealander's are able to live their lives because their leaders did the right things.  But because the useless w**kers on this island f**ked about, now it's all up to everyone of us to do what's right for society? You can f**k right off.
So just because the politicians fucked up their response to the virus taking hold in 2020 (which they did), we should punish them for their incompetence by refusing to take an effective vaccine from them in 2021?

Yeah, that'll teach 'em!  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:44:13 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 08:53:34 PM
We have people on this thread basically saying if someone for whatever reason doesn't want the vaccine they should be banned from society and segregated.
What do you mean by "banned from society" and "segregated"?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 05:47:29 PM
Aye, and what did governments do to help me, you and the rest of society? F**ked about, letting thousands in and out early days, and the virus out of control. Thousands of needless deaths, everyone of them, the blame lies at politicians doors.

There should be no need for any of us to take this vaccine because the virus should, have been kept out. NZ and Australia have it under control, as well as lots of other island nations. New Zealander's are able to live their lives because their leaders did the right things.  But because the useless w**kers on this island f**ked about, now it's all up to everyone of us to do what's right for society? You can f**k right off.
So just because the politicians fucked up their response to the virus taking hold in 2020 (which they did), we should punish them for their incompetence by refusing to take an effective vaccine from them in 2021?

Yeah, that'll teach 'em!  ::)

I didn't say that. We shouldn't be in this position. If they'd handled it like NZ/Aus, we wouldn't even need to take any vaccine.

And only time will tell if it's an effective vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 12, 2021, 11:21:57 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 05:47:29 PM
Aye, and what did governments do to help me, you and the rest of society? F**ked about, letting thousands in and out early days, and the virus out of control. Thousands of needless deaths, everyone of them, the blame lies at politicians doors.

There should be no need for any of us to take this vaccine because the virus should, have been kept out. NZ and Australia have it under control, as well as lots of other island nations. New Zealander's are able to live their lives because their leaders did the right things.  But because the useless w**kers on this island f**ked about, now it's all up to everyone of us to do what's right for society? You can f**k right off.
So just because the politicians fucked up their response to the virus taking hold in 2020 (which they did), we should punish them for their incompetence by refusing to take an effective vaccine from them in 2021?

Yeah, that'll teach 'em!  ::)

I didn't say that. We shouldn't be in this position. If they'd handled it like NZ/Aus, we wouldn't even need to take any vaccine.

And only time will tell if it's an effective vaccine.

We are in this position and no one is saying the governments were right! They fucked it monumentally wrong.

So with that being said, and agreed, you think we should not vaccine, as it's pointless as it needs to be reviewed and studied for a period of time (6/10 years) before its used.

Or just track and trace, open things up and see how than works?

I believe that'll lead to multiple lockdowns, how depressing would that be
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on April 13, 2021, 12:05:43 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
So just because the politicians fucked up their response to the virus taking hold in 2020 (which they did), we should punish them for their incompetence by refusing to take an effective vaccine from them in 2021?

Yeah, that'll teach 'em!  ::)

I didn't say that. We shouldn't be in this position. If they'd handled it like NZ/Aus, we wouldn't even need to take any vaccine.
It's like the old story of the American tourist who got lost in Ireland, so was forced to ask a local for directions.

Tourist: "How do I get to Ballygosomewhere?"

Local: "Well if I were you, Sir, I wouldn't be starting from here"

Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
And only time will tell if it's an effective vaccine.
How much feckin time do you need?

The UK had the 1st Wave as bad as anywhere in the world last year, worse than most in fact.

Then it had an even worse 2nd Wave over the winter.

Yet now, when continental Europe and much of the rest of the world is struggling with a serious 3rd Wave after a fairly good 2020, it has yet to take hold in the UK. Indeed to the contrary, the number of UK transmissions, hospitalisations and deaths are dropping by the day.

For example, France reported 8.5k new cases and 385 new deaths for 12 April.

While the UK had 3.5k new cases and 13* deaths.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus//country/france/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus//country/france/)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274)

For which there is one reason, and one reason only, why that should be so: i.e. our vaccination programme is miles ahead of those other places.


* - Since numbers are sometimes under-reported after a weekend, that figure may subsequently be revised upwards, but likely not by many.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on April 13, 2021, 12:31:07 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 12, 2021, 03:49:15 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 12, 2021, 03:31:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 12, 2021, 02:43:22 PM
Open question to those against vaccine passports for pubs etc, are you against it because you don't want to get the vaccine or is it because it's the state intervening?
Very few people (though not none) who take the vaccine will be against the vaccine passport, though there will be people who say the only reason they are against vaccine passports is state intervention.

Seems very odd that the vaccine doesn't give an exemption from quarantining. I'm all for travel quarantining, and I think it should be worldwide, but I've a mate in the US in his 40s who has just got his second vaccine dose and wants to come home in June and see his folks (who will be getting their second shot in the next week or so). Under the rules at the moment he'd have to quarantine for 2 weeks on arrival - that makes no sense to me!
I think these sort of things will be sorted in the long run. It makes no sense as you say, but they've been 1 step behind in all things Covid if you ask me. And it nearly takes something like this to be raised for it to be addressed rather than some strategic thinking and planning. Once international travel comes to the fore again I'd imagine a much more structured process would be put in place and issues like this will be ironed out.

it is baffling to say the least.
I live in the US, avoided Covid thankfully.
Got vaccinated yesterday (JNJ one shot),was looking forward to going back to see my elderly vaccinated mother.
I could have gone (unvaccinated) today thru Thursday and not have to quarentine in a hotel for 12 days.
however, if I go after Thursday and even though I have been vaccinated, I have to quarantine.
Seriously, who made this up.
The Government or the Civil servants who are making these decisions should have to explain their rational.
By their actions, have they not wiped out another tourist season and all the spending, employment that is associated with it.
America will have 60 +% of their entire population vaccinated by the end of May. That probably equates to 75% over the age of 11 as there are almost 50MM in the US 11 and under.
but yet pretty much zero % of them will be traveling to Ireland this year.
just pure madness.
Are they doing the same to vaccinated people coming from the UK.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on April 13, 2021, 12:48:03 AM
Quote from: joemamas on April 13, 2021, 12:31:07 AM
it is baffling to say the least.
I live in the US, avoided Covid thankfully.
Got vaccinated yesterday (JNJ one shot),was looking forward to going back to see my elderly vaccinated mother.
I could have gone (unvaccinated) today thru Thursday and not have to quarentine in a hotel for 12 days.
however, if I go after Thursday and even though I have been vaccinated, I have to quarantine.
Seriously, who made this up.
Not dismissing your bafflement in the least - all seems very strange to me - but I would point out that it still wouldn't have made sense to let someone vaccinated on Sunday to travel in the following few days, since it can take up to 3 weeks for vaccines to reach their maximum effectiveness.

But yeah, it all seems very nonsensical.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 13, 2021, 01:10:13 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 13, 2021, 12:05:43 AM
For which there is one reason, and one reason only, why that should be so: i.e. our vaccination programme is miles ahead of those other places.


* - Since numbers are sometimes under-reported after a weekend, that figure may subsequently be revised upwards, but likely not by many.

Having had your Astrazeneca take orders from those countries for vaccines and then not fulfill them, this is not surprising.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on April 13, 2021, 01:41:38 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2021, 01:10:13 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 13, 2021, 12:05:43 AM
For which there is one reason, and one reason only, why that should be so: i.e. our vaccination programme is miles ahead of those other places.


* - Since numbers are sometimes under-reported after a weekend, that figure may subsequently be revised upwards, but likely not by many.

Having had your Astrazeneca take orders from those countries for vaccines and then not fulfill them, this is not surprising.
Not so surprising as having European politicians seek to deflect the blame from their own shortcomings by trying to point the finger at others.

In this case, blaming a company for production problems, when they (European countries) already had literally millions of doses of that company's vaccine sitting unused in fridges all around the continent.

While the UK signed the order 3 months before the EU and paid the asking price, rather than trying to quibble, with a company in which the UK had already invested millions in their vaccine programme, both at home and on the continent, and whose own Health Regulator had authorised the vaccine a month or more before their European counterparts.

But heyho, if in doubt: "Blame Da Brits!"

Meanwhile, I was listening to a very interesting point which a Dutch scientist made the other day. France is a major leader in the world of medicine and pharmacology etc (the land of Pasteur, after all).

But while other comparable countries like UK, Germany, USA, China and even Russia have all produced vaccines, France is conspicuously absent from the list by its own failure to come up with one.

Why? Apparently because they decided to go it alone, declining to share their programme with any non-French companies (research, production, testing etc). Yet one of the success stories of this vaccine production is the unparalleled international co-operation across national boundaries, including even by (otherwise) competing companies. And this co-operation is essential with the Pfizer/Biontec vaccine, for example, depending on 230 separate components*, most of which had to be imported into Germany.

Yet France decided they could go it alone - another to be added to the list of f**k-ups by that dipstick Macron.


* - Incidentally, that explains why the EU Commission decided to pick on AZ rather than the UK government: they knew that if they blocked EU-made vaccines coming to the UK, we in turn could "turn off the tap" for essential British-made components going to them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on April 13, 2021, 03:27:40 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 05:47:29 PM
Aye, and what did governments do to help me, you and the rest of society? F**ked about, letting thousands in and out early days, and the virus out of control. Thousands of needless deaths, everyone of them, the blame lies at politicians doors.

There should be no need for any of us to take this vaccine because the virus should, have been kept out. NZ and Australia have it under control, as well as lots of other island nations. New Zealander’s are able to live their lives because their leaders did the right things.  But because the useless w**kers on this island f**ked about, now it’s all up to everyone of us to do what’s right for society? You can f**k right off.
So just because the politicians fucked up their response to the virus taking hold in 2020 (which they did), we should punish them for their incompetence by refusing to take an effective vaccine from them in 2021?

Yeah, that'll teach 'em!  ::)

I didn’t say that. We shouldn’t be in this position. If they’d handled it like NZ/Aus, we wouldn’t even need to take any vaccine.

And only time will tell if it’s an effective vaccine.
Israel already shows how effective vaccines are.

All countries need a good percentage of its population vaccinated before they get back to the 2019 normality and it would be a very different story for NZ/Aus if they were located in Europe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 13, 2021, 08:01:46 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 05:47:29 PM
Aye, and what did governments do to help me, you and the rest of society? F**ked about, letting thousands in and out early days, and the virus out of control. Thousands of needless deaths, everyone of them, the blame lies at politicians doors.

There should be no need for any of us to take this vaccine because the virus should, have been kept out. NZ and Australia have it under control, as well as lots of other island nations. New Zealander's are able to live their lives because their leaders did the right things.  But because the useless w**kers on this island f**ked about, now it's all up to everyone of us to do what's right for society? You can f**k right off.
So just because the politicians fucked up their response to the virus taking hold in 2020 (which they did), we should punish them for their incompetence by refusing to take an effective vaccine from them in 2021?

Yeah, that'll teach 'em!  ::)

I didn't say that. We shouldn't be in this position. If they'd handled it like NZ/Aus, we wouldn't even need to take any vaccine.

And only time will tell if it's an effective vaccine.

Benny - if they had handled it like NZ/Aus then you would still be taking the vaccine - just like NZ/Aus?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 13, 2021, 09:44:27 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:34:06 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 12:43:28 PM
The vaccines are experimental.

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 01:40:52 PM
You are saying you want to isolate people from society, who won't take an experimental vaccine,
What do you mean by "experimental"?

The vaccine producers face no liability to adverse reactions due to the (sped up) nature of their trials in the production. So to me, whilst they have been passed....I'm sure you'll agree, without liability to the producers....there is a certain, experimental tone to it which I can see why people would be wary of taking the vaccine of (for something, they'll probably be fine for in nature anyway).

I'm not exposing anti vaxx propaganda or nonsense. I'm not saying they are unsafe. I'm merely putting reasons out there why some people may be hesitant to take the vaccine as is their right in the face of calls from people here to have them banned from daily life as they may be wary of taking something, which to be honest, we are still gathering data on (but, it looks good).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on April 13, 2021, 09:46:10 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 13, 2021, 12:05:43 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
So just because the politicians fucked up their response to the virus taking hold in 2020 (which they did), we should punish them for their incompetence by refusing to take an effective vaccine from them in 2021?

Yeah, that'll teach 'em!  ::)

I didn't say that. We shouldn't be in this position. If they'd handled it like NZ/Aus, we wouldn't even need to take any vaccine.
It's like the old story of the American tourist who got lost in Ireland, so was forced to ask a local for directions.

Tourist: "How do I get to Ballygosomewhere?"

Local: "Well if I were you, Sir, I wouldn't be starting from here"

Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
And only time will tell if it's an effective vaccine.
How much feckin time do you need?

The UK had the 1st Wave as bad as anywhere in the world last year, worse than most in fact.

Then it had an even worse 2nd Wave over the winter.

Yet now, when continental Europe and much of the rest of the world is struggling with a serious 3rd Wave after a fairly good 2020, it has yet to take hold in the UK. Indeed to the contrary, the number of UK transmissions, hospitalisations and deaths are dropping by the day.

For example, France reported 8.5k new cases and 385 new deaths for 12 April.

While the UK had 3.5k new cases and 13* deaths.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus//country/france/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus//country/france/)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274)

For which there is one reason, and one reason only, why that should be so: i.e. our vaccination programme is miles ahead of those other places.


* - Since numbers are sometimes under-reported after a weekend, that figure may subsequently be revised upwards, but likely not by many.

Things only opened up yesterday in Britain. And here will be opening up over the next few days/week's. Schools aren't long back, so we're yet to see if these vaccines are really working.

Only 3.5k? Is that all? NZ had 0. That's right, zero.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 13, 2021, 09:48:29 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:44:13 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 08:53:34 PM
We have people on this thread basically saying if someone for whatever reason doesn't want the vaccine they should be banned from society and segregated.
What do you mean by "banned from society" and "segregated"?

You may ask that to the people who have put those ideas on this board.

Personally I think it's abhorrent.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 13, 2021, 09:56:25 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 13, 2021, 09:46:10 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 13, 2021, 12:05:43 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
So just because the politicians fucked up their response to the virus taking hold in 2020 (which they did), we should punish them for their incompetence by refusing to take an effective vaccine from them in 2021?

Yeah, that'll teach 'em!  ::)

I didn't say that. We shouldn't be in this position. If they'd handled it like NZ/Aus, we wouldn't even need to take any vaccine.
It's like the old story of the American tourist who got lost in Ireland, so was forced to ask a local for directions.

Tourist: "How do I get to Ballygosomewhere?"

Local: "Well if I were you, Sir, I wouldn't be starting from here"

Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
And only time will tell if it's an effective vaccine.
How much feckin time do you need?

The UK had the 1st Wave as bad as anywhere in the world last year, worse than most in fact.

Then it had an even worse 2nd Wave over the winter.

Yet now, when continental Europe and much of the rest of the world is struggling with a serious 3rd Wave after a fairly good 2020, it has yet to take hold in the UK. Indeed to the contrary, the number of UK transmissions, hospitalisations and deaths are dropping by the day.

For example, France reported 8.5k new cases and 385 new deaths for 12 April.

While the UK had 3.5k new cases and 13* deaths.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus//country/france/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus//country/france/)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274)

For which there is one reason, and one reason only, why that should be so: i.e. our vaccination programme is miles ahead of those other places.


* - Since numbers are sometimes under-reported after a weekend, that figure may subsequently be revised upwards, but likely not by many.

Things only opened up yesterday in Britain. And here will be opening up over the next few days/week's. Schools aren't long back, so we're yet to see if these vaccines are really working.

Only 3.5k? Is that all? NZ had 0. That's right, zero.

Im trying to see your POV here Benny.

You use NZ as an example - they handled it absolutely superbly from start to finish and we can all agree on that.

Yet they are still rolling out the vaccine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2021, 10:00:53 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 13, 2021, 09:46:10 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 13, 2021, 12:05:43 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
So just because the politicians fucked up their response to the virus taking hold in 2020 (which they did), we should punish them for their incompetence by refusing to take an effective vaccine from them in 2021?

Yeah, that'll teach 'em!  ::)

I didn't say that. We shouldn't be in this position. If they'd handled it like NZ/Aus, we wouldn't even need to take any vaccine.
It's like the old story of the American tourist who got lost in Ireland, so was forced to ask a local for directions.

Tourist: "How do I get to Ballygosomewhere?"

Local: "Well if I were you, Sir, I wouldn't be starting from here"

Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
And only time will tell if it's an effective vaccine.
How much feckin time do you need?

The UK had the 1st Wave as bad as anywhere in the world last year, worse than most in fact.

Then it had an even worse 2nd Wave over the winter.

Yet now, when continental Europe and much of the rest of the world is struggling with a serious 3rd Wave after a fairly good 2020, it has yet to take hold in the UK. Indeed to the contrary, the number of UK transmissions, hospitalisations and deaths are dropping by the day.

For example, France reported 8.5k new cases and 385 new deaths for 12 April.

While the UK had 3.5k new cases and 13* deaths.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus//country/france/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus//country/france/)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274)

For which there is one reason, and one reason only, why that should be so: i.e. our vaccination programme is miles ahead of those other places.


* - Since numbers are sometimes under-reported after a weekend, that figure may subsequently be revised upwards, but likely not by many.

Things only opened up yesterday in Britain. And here will be opening up over the next few days/week's. Schools aren't long back, so we're yet to see if these vaccines are really working.

Only 3.5k? Is that all? NZ had 0. That's right, zero.

You are a 1000% right we don't know if the vaccine is the silver bullet.. We are fucked if it's not... Plan b will hopefully be close the borders properly like NZ otherwise we face the continual lockdowns.

Oh I don't want the government changing their goal posts as much as the next guy, we can't get zero covid, that's impossible. lower hospital admissions and deaths related to covid should be the target to allow us up and running.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 13, 2021, 10:16:08 AM
We need to get shit up and running here. England are way behind in vaccines. I mean responsibly but they are incredibly slow to react plus they give very short notice and then they cut funding very quickly as well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 13, 2021, 10:41:20 AM
Due a review here this week? By the looks of certain businesses etc posts on social media, quite a bit looks to be getting a heads up for opening.

Good news.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on April 13, 2021, 10:41:56 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 13, 2021, 03:27:40 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 05:47:29 PM
Aye, and what did governments do to help me, you and the rest of society? F**ked about, letting thousands in and out early days, and the virus out of control. Thousands of needless deaths, everyone of them, the blame lies at politicians doors.

There should be no need for any of us to take this vaccine because the virus should, have been kept out. NZ and Australia have it under control, as well as lots of other island nations. New Zealander's are able to live their lives because their leaders did the right things.  But because the useless w**kers on this island f**ked about, now it's all up to everyone of us to do what's right for society? You can f**k right off.
So just because the politicians fucked up their response to the virus taking hold in 2020 (which they did), we should punish them for their incompetence by refusing to take an effective vaccine from them in 2021?

Yeah, that'll teach 'em!  ::)

I didn't say that. We shouldn't be in this position. If they'd handled it like NZ/Aus, we wouldn't even need to take any vaccine.

And only time will tell if it's an effective vaccine.
Israel already shows how effective vaccines are.

All countries need a good percentage of its population vaccinated before they get back to the 2019 normality and it would be a very different story for NZ/Aus if they were located in Europe.

Israel? Yes, because none of us doubts what is spewed from thon place.

A good percentage of the population. So that would be what? 85 percent? 90? Let's say that achieved herd immunity or whatever the term is.

Ok let's take that logic. Say Ireland has 6 million people. 5.9 million get vaccinated. 100,000 chose not to/can't get it. Surely the 5.9m protects the 100k? The same with measles, polio jabs etc?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2021, 10:51:30 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 13, 2021, 10:41:56 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 13, 2021, 03:27:40 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 05:47:29 PM
Aye, and what did governments do to help me, you and the rest of society? F**ked about, letting thousands in and out early days, and the virus out of control. Thousands of needless deaths, everyone of them, the blame lies at politicians doors.

There should be no need for any of us to take this vaccine because the virus should, have been kept out. NZ and Australia have it under control, as well as lots of other island nations. New Zealander's are able to live their lives because their leaders did the right things.  But because the useless w**kers on this island f**ked about, now it's all up to everyone of us to do what's right for society? You can f**k right off.
So just because the politicians fucked up their response to the virus taking hold in 2020 (which they did), we should punish them for their incompetence by refusing to take an effective vaccine from them in 2021?

Yeah, that'll teach 'em!  ::)

I didn't say that. We shouldn't be in this position. If they'd handled it like NZ/Aus, we wouldn't even need to take any vaccine.

And only time will tell if it's an effective vaccine.
Israel already shows how effective vaccines are.

All countries need a good percentage of its population vaccinated before they get back to the 2019 normality and it would be a very different story for NZ/Aus if they were located in Europe.

Israel? Yes, because none of us doubts what is spewed from thon place.

A good percentage of the population. So that would be what? 85 percent? 90? Let's say that achieved herd immunity or whatever the term is.

Ok let's take that logic. Say Ireland has 6 million people. 5.9 million get vaccinated. 100,000 chose not to/can't get it. Surely the 5.9m protects the 100k? The same with measles, polio jabs etc?

Yeah thats the way herd immunity works (apparently) So you can be one of the 100,000 who choses not to. you can still not take it and any other vaccine that is out there.

While you are at it. no need to take paracetamol (Those we have tell us that paracetamol use is associated with increased rates of death, heart attack, stomach bleeding and kidney failure. Paracetamol is known to cause liver failure in overdose, but it also causes liver failure in people taking standard doses for pain relief.)

ibuprofen (Ibuprofen changes your body's production of prostaglandins. This change can lead to an imbalance in your body fluid pressure, which can decrease your kidney function and increase your blood pressure. Symptoms of decreased kidney function include: increased blood pressure.)

Are you willing to take no medication going forward? Or have you taken any of the above?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 13, 2021, 10:57:16 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 13, 2021, 10:41:56 AM
Ok let's take that logic. Say Ireland has 6 million people. 5.9 million get vaccinated. 100,000 chose not to/can't get it. Surely the 5.9m protects the 100k? The same with measles, polio jabs etc?

At present there are no children vaccinated, so we not going to get anywhere near those sort of levels to provide herd immunity. Now vaccines for children may be approved in the summer and perhaps they can be vaccinated in the autumn.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 13, 2021, 11:14:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2021, 10:00:53 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 13, 2021, 09:46:10 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 13, 2021, 12:05:43 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
So just because the politicians fucked up their response to the virus taking hold in 2020 (which they did), we should punish them for their incompetence by refusing to take an effective vaccine from them in 2021?

Yeah, that'll teach 'em!  ::)

I didn't say that. We shouldn't be in this position. If they'd handled it like NZ/Aus, we wouldn't even need to take any vaccine.
It's like the old story of the American tourist who got lost in Ireland, so was forced to ask a local for directions.

Tourist: "How do I get to Ballygosomewhere?"

Local: "Well if I were you, Sir, I wouldn't be starting from here"

Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
And only time will tell if it's an effective vaccine.
How much feckin time do you need?

The UK had the 1st Wave as bad as anywhere in the world last year, worse than most in fact.

Then it had an even worse 2nd Wave over the winter.

Yet now, when continental Europe and much of the rest of the world is struggling with a serious 3rd Wave after a fairly good 2020, it has yet to take hold in the UK. Indeed to the contrary, the number of UK transmissions, hospitalisations and deaths are dropping by the day.

For example, France reported 8.5k new cases and 385 new deaths for 12 April.

While the UK had 3.5k new cases and 13* deaths.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus//country/france/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus//country/france/)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274)

For which there is one reason, and one reason only, why that should be so: i.e. our vaccination programme is miles ahead of those other places.


* - Since numbers are sometimes under-reported after a weekend, that figure may subsequently be revised upwards, but likely not by many.

Things only opened up yesterday in Britain. And here will be opening up over the next few days/week's. Schools aren't long back, so we're yet to see if these vaccines are really working.

Only 3.5k? Is that all? NZ had 0. That's right, zero.

You are a 1000% right we don't know if the vaccine is the silver bullet.. We are fucked if it's not... Plan b will hopefully be close the borders properly like NZ otherwise we face the continual lockdowns.

Oh I don't want the government changing their goal posts as much as the next guy, we can't get zero covid, that's impossible. lower hospital admissions and deaths related to covid should be the target to allow us up and running.
If the vaccine isn't gonna fix this- we'll just have to let it rip. People won't take much more of this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 13, 2021, 11:22:06 AM
I don't think letting it rip will actually solve anything if the 'at risk' die, and the hospitals are over run and other medical emergencies are held up because there are no ICU, or do you just want to keep the ICU or ordinary illnesses and those with the Covid can slide off?

As I said, we'd need to contain it on our land and close the borders. Your system is a little flawed if I'm honest
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2021, 11:50:43 AM
We need Sid and Angelo back. This thread has become one of discussion, fact and opinion.

Not what I signed up for.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 14, 2021, 11:53:58 AM
It'll be interesting to see what they announce on thursday. Speculation is outside pubs, gyms, hairdressers and stuff like that. I'm not sure on cafes / restaurants but it would be nice to see them opening again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2021, 11:54:44 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2021, 11:50:43 AM
We need Sid and Angelo back. This thread has become one of discussion, fact and opinion.

Not what I signed up for.

f**k it bring back Seaney and his mad attempts to reason with, then when he did get barred his last miserable attack before he got dumped again was too funny
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2021, 11:56:31 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 14, 2021, 11:53:58 AM
It'll be interesting to see what they announce on thursday. Speculation is outside pubs, gyms, hairdressers and stuff like that. I'm not sure on cafes / restaurants but it would be nice to see them opening again.

I'm at a loss with the gyms, personally and working out the differences between being in a gym and being in my friends house?

I'm a thousand percent sure I'll be more at risk in a gym working out than I would be in my mates house having a bite to eat!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 14, 2021, 12:00:24 PM
Are you allowed in your friend's house yet? I didn't think you were allowed in anything other than a garden?

Yeah I think gyms should have been open a long time ago tbh. The vast majority of gyms , from what I am led to believe, have been very vigilant with hygiene etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2021, 12:02:01 PM
I've been reading things like they want to hold off on gyms being reopened due to risk involved.

I think after the riots in Belfast, they might just push and get a few more things open...try and buy a bit of peace. Give them something else to be at.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 14, 2021, 12:11:32 PM
I think they did youth clubs on the back of that didn't they?

Ai it is time to get some stuff going. I see some gyms have outside areas and are doing smaller classes there so at least that is something.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2021, 12:12:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 14, 2021, 12:11:32 PM
I think they did youth clubs on the back of that didn't they?

Ai it is time to get some stuff going. I see some gyms have outside areas and are doing smaller classes there so at least that is something.

Opened up football pitches and youth clubs to get them off the streets.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2021, 12:57:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 14, 2021, 12:00:24 PM
Are you allowed in your friend's house yet? I didn't think you were allowed in anything other than a garden?

Yeah I think gyms should have been open a long time ago tbh. The vast majority of gyms , from what I am led to believe, have been very vigilant with hygiene etc.

What I meant with that was, Why can't I sit in a friends house but can go to the gym?  I personally think the gym has more chances of spreading than a large living room with the windows open!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on April 14, 2021, 01:42:19 PM
After a bad news day yesterday on the vaccines, some positive news today with Pfizer able to ship 55m in Qtr2 to EU and ROI will receive 550,000 of these.

Will need to see a massive push over next few weeks to play catch up as this weeks figures will be well off target.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2021, 01:53:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2021, 12:57:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 14, 2021, 12:00:24 PM
Are you allowed in your friend's house yet? I didn't think you were allowed in anything other than a garden?

Yeah I think gyms should have been open a long time ago tbh. The vast majority of gyms , from what I am led to believe, have been very vigilant with hygiene etc.

What I meant with that was, Why can't I sit in a friends house but can go to the gym?  I personally think the gym has more chances of spreading than a large living room with the windows open!

Most gyms in this weather now will be open door / window anyway. The winter is over.

I read somewhere earlier on, Chlorine eliminates Covid.....you would wonder why swimming pools aren't a go already then.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 14, 2021, 02:00:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 14, 2021, 12:57:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 14, 2021, 12:00:24 PM
Are you allowed in your friend's house yet? I didn't think you were allowed in anything other than a garden?

Yeah I think gyms should have been open a long time ago tbh. The vast majority of gyms , from what I am led to believe, have been very vigilant with hygiene etc.

What I meant with that was, Why can't I sit in a friends house but can go to the gym?  I personally think the gym has more chances of spreading than a large living room with the windows open!

Ah sorry misunderstood. At a guess they have responsible people running them(allegedly) lol.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 14, 2021, 04:56:31 PM
Wee Robbie Swann sounds positive. Better be decent dates given tomorrow
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rich Ricci on April 14, 2021, 05:01:57 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 14, 2021, 04:56:31 PM
Wee Robbie Swann sounds positive. Better be decent dates given tomorrow

He must have gotten a blow to the head. Expecting Michael Mcbride or fellow doom merchant/minor celeb Dr. Tom Black to come out crying that we're moving too quickly any day now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2021, 05:04:06 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 14, 2021, 04:56:31 PM
Wee Robbie Swann sounds positive. Better be decent dates given tomorrow

Think he knows he had no choice really to be honest. The North could be fully open tomorrow truth be told.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on April 15, 2021, 02:25:15 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2021, 11:50:43 AM
We need Sid and Angelo back. This thread has become one of discussion, fact and opinion.

Not what I signed up for.
think I stumbled on him on twitter @angeloOfTyrone if you miss him
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 15, 2021, 07:45:26 AM
Jesus! Is there contradictions in his posts or is he on point!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on April 15, 2021, 07:58:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2021, 02:25:15 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2021, 11:50:43 AM
We need Sid and Angelo back. This thread has become one of discussion, fact and opinion.

Not what I signed up for.
think I stumbled on him on twitter @angeloOfTyrone if you miss him

A big fan of Ewan MacKenna.

And two of the 17 people he follows is Gript and John McGurk...I knew that's where he was getting half his "facts" and links from.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 10:06:09 AM
Was rumours of hospitality (outdoors) being allowed back at end of April along with hairdressers etc. Now looking to be early to mid May, guess we will have to wait and see. Will be great to have some firm dates and certainty!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2021, 10:16:54 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2021, 02:25:15 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2021, 11:50:43 AM
We need Sid and Angelo back. This thread has become one of discussion, fact and opinion.

Not what I signed up for.
think I stumbled on him on twitter @angeloOfTyrone if you miss him

😂 He'll be back soon.....Rolling wars over 7 threads, its hard to keep up who hates who.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on April 15, 2021, 10:24:24 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 10:06:09 AM
Was rumours of hospitality (outdoors) being allowed back at end of April along with hairdressers etc. Now looking to be early to mid May, guess we will have to wait and see. Will be great to have some firm dates and certainty!

NI seem to be moving into a good place. The health minister sounded positive yesterday.

Locally here in ROI, there is a lot going on. Sports for underage back on 26th but traffic, footfall, activity all seem to have ramped up a lot in last few weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 15, 2021, 10:26:59 AM
Great to see the Executive finally catch up with the rest of society.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 10:59:25 AM
Quote from: Louther on April 15, 2021, 10:24:24 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 10:06:09 AM
Was rumours of hospitality (outdoors) being allowed back at end of April along with hairdressers etc. Now looking to be early to mid May, guess we will have to wait and see. Will be great to have some firm dates and certainty!

NI seem to be moving into a good place. The health minister sounded positive yesterday.

Locally here in ROI, there is a lot going on. Sports for underage back on 26th but traffic, footfall, activity all seem to have ramped up a lot in last few weeks.
First time ever. Think they've realised that if they don't give a bit people will totally ignore the restrictions more so than ever.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 15, 2021, 11:25:51 AM
From what has been leaked (if correct) the dates for gyms & indoor dining reopening is tough on those business' as well as not making much sense
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2021, 11:33:01 AM
Hospitality Ulster pushing hard this morning online.

Might there be a twist yet?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 11:37:49 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2021, 11:33:01 AM
Hospitality Ulster pushing hard this morning online.

Might there be a twist yet?
Hopefully. Surely gyms are no more or less safe than indoor hospitality. And outdoor hospitality is bound to be safer than an indoor gym?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2021, 11:40:49 AM
Gyms could open on an individual basis to begin with, most people go to the gym alone anyway.

They'll be crying about the overweight / unhealthy / borderline alcoholic population in Ireland in the next six months. Not that anyone will care.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on April 15, 2021, 01:21:18 PM
Booking for cafes and places like that is a bollocks, there will be loads of no shows which obviously then hammers the business in lost trade
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 02:42:55 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 15, 2021, 01:21:18 PM
Booking for cafes and places like that is a bollocks, there will be loads of no shows which obviously then hammers the business in lost trade
Walk ins only job.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 02:43:13 PM
Pushed back to 4:15.... shock horror
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 15, 2021, 03:19:15 PM
The leaks to Jayne McCormack are infuriating.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 04:03:13 PM
Diane Dodds pushing to open hospitality sooner. Hope Sinn Fein ain't fighting against this or they'll not be getting any more votes from me!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 15, 2021, 04:27:20 PM
Are these idiots on any TV channel at 4:15pm?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 15, 2021, 04:34:40 PM
All the f**king leaks and none of them right. Dickheads couldn't even leak the right dates.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 15, 2021, 08:53:49 PM
anyone know when campsites open
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 15, 2021, 11:07:31 PM
BOHICA

https://www.ft.com/content/d1a18cef-68ff-4f37-b5d7-ad522b2bbf68

Surge testing has been expanded to four London boroughs amid growing concern that the test and trace programme cannot contain a coronavirus variant that has shown increasing signs of vaccine resistance.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on April 16, 2021, 12:36:22 PM
Our mental health champion who is currently banned will no doubt be glad to hear that there was no significant increase in suicides during the early months of lockdown according to a recent study carried out on 21 different nations worldwide

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(21)00091-2/fulltext
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on April 16, 2021, 12:56:51 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on April 15, 2021, 08:53:49 PM
anyone know when campsites open

For tents Fear? Not sure as you'd be using shared facilities. Moving quickly atm, so you'd maybe expect them to open around the same time as indoor pubs.
Benone taking bookings at the minute and parks in Donegal are taking bookings for May for static / towers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on April 18, 2021, 06:16:15 PM
ROI weekly update. Good progress again this week.

Cases 2601 (216 fewer than last week)
Reported Deaths 54 (17 fewer than last week)

In hospital 181 (37 fewer than a week ago)
In ICU 47 (6 fewer than last Sunday)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 18, 2021, 07:10:52 PM
Continuing in the right direction.
Some people claiming (wishful thinking or ?) that indoor eating and drinking could be back on in June in the 26.
I would hope attendance at matches would be allowed before that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on April 18, 2021, 07:37:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 18, 2021, 07:10:52 PM
Continuing in the right direction.
Some people claiming (wishful thinking or ?) that indoor eating and drinking could be back on in June in the 26.
I would hope attendance at matches would be allowed before that.
Absolutely, I'm currently watching a match in Wembley with 4,000 supporters in attendance. We should be doing likewise in June and moving on from thinking we can only allow 200 people at matches.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on April 18, 2021, 10:02:34 PM
Looking like this was just a bad flu all along lads.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on April 18, 2021, 10:04:46 PM
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.13554
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 18, 2021, 10:14:50 PM
Quote from: highorlow on April 18, 2021, 10:02:34 PM
Looking like this was just a bad flu all along lads.

Aren't you the same poster that said this covid virus would all blow over in a few weeks?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on April 18, 2021, 11:20:33 PM
QuoteAren't you the same poster that said this covid virus would all blow over in a few weeks?

.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2021, 11:23:36 PM
Quote from: highorlow on April 18, 2021, 10:02:34 PM
Looking like this was just a bad flu all along lads.

Like a seasonal flu?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on April 18, 2021, 11:39:52 PM
QuoteIoannidis estimates that Covid has an average global Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) of ~0.15%. This is on the basis of surveying global seroprevalence data, i.e. statistics relating to the presence of Covid-19 antibodies in human blood samples.

Carry on sheepels. It ended for me after about a month. Plandemic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on April 18, 2021, 11:44:11 PM
Let's test everyone that dies from now with or from any flu virus. We may as well keep counting now seen as we never did it before on such a global scale and the pharmaceutical companies like that shit.

I'm an opposing voice = conspiracy theorist
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2021, 11:56:43 PM
Quote from: highorlow on April 18, 2021, 11:44:11 PM
Let's test everyone that dies from now with or from any flu virus. We may as well keep counting now seen as we never did it before on such a global scale and the pharmaceutical companies like that shit.

I'm an opposing voice = conspiracy theorist

It's a simple question, is it a seasonal flu or an all year all seasons type flu?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on April 19, 2021, 12:13:45 AM
I'll ask you a simpler question.

Why are cases dropping?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2021, 12:24:22 AM
Quote from: highorlow on April 19, 2021, 12:13:45 AM
I'll ask you a simpler question.

Why are cases dropping?

We've been in lockdown since Xmas...

So I'll ask you again you can answer or not. Is it a seasonal thing like flu or a yearly thing? Does it happen in warm countries all year round or just when we are in doors and spreading it?

France in a third wave, what type of seasons do they get the flu? April?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on April 19, 2021, 12:41:04 AM
QuoteWe've been in lockdown since Xmas...

We have been reopening for the last month. Plus the unvaccinated super spreader age group 18-35 year olds never really "locked down" and who would blame them. Yet cases are plummeting.

If your not prepared to explain to me why this is the case other  than say "we've been in lockdown since x mass" then it's pointless arguing. By all metrics and based on canal drinking, Easter parties, paddy's day, protests and general couldntgiveashitanymoreology we should have 2000 cases a day amongst the "youths". I'm asking you for a reason? I don't need to explain mine, I've posted a scientific paper , go and read it.

I forgot to mention the case mining as well with the walk in tents. Even more baffling is the drop when they've to search for cases.

Science has dug themselves a hole on this. They keep digging.

Opposing voice = Conspiracy theorist
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 19, 2021, 01:07:05 AM
Quote from: highorlow on April 18, 2021, 11:20:33 PM
.
Best post by you on this thread 👍
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 19, 2021, 01:14:52 AM
Quote from: highorlow on April 19, 2021, 12:13:45 AM
I'll ask you a simpler question.

Why are cases dropping?

People are behaving responsibly and many people are vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 19, 2021, 03:39:42 AM
Quote from: highorlow on April 18, 2021, 11:39:52 PM
QuoteIoannidis estimates that Covid has an average global Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) of ~0.15%. This is on the basis of surveying global seroprevalence data, i.e. statistics relating to the presence of Covid-19 antibodies in human blood samples.

Carry on sheepels. It ended for me after about a month. Plandemic.

Why the extra S?  Neither 'sheep' nor 'people' are s-ending plurals.  It's pretty clear to me you're just a shill looking to discredit conspiracy theorists generally.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2021, 07:53:56 AM
Quote from: highorlow on April 19, 2021, 12:41:04 AM
QuoteWe've been in lockdown since Xmas...

We have been reopening for the last month. Plus the unvaccinated super spreader age group 18-35 year olds never really "locked down" and who would blame them. Yet cases are plummeting.

If your not prepared to explain to me why this is the case other  than say "we've been in lockdown since x mass" then it's pointless arguing. By all metrics and based on canal drinking, Easter parties, paddy's day, protests and general couldntgiveashitanymoreology we should have 2000 cases a day amongst the "youths". I'm asking you for a reason? I don't need to explain mine, I've posted a scientific paper , go and read it.

I forgot to mention the case mining as well with the walk in tents. Even more baffling is the drop when they've to search for cases.

Science has dug themselves a hole on this. They keep digging.

Opposing voice = Conspiracy theorist

So you're not going to answer? I gave you an answer.

But like Angelo you've skipped it

Why are cases down here in the north and why are cases higher in the south?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 19, 2021, 08:17:43 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2021, 07:53:56 AM
Quote from: highorlow on April 19, 2021, 12:41:04 AM
QuoteWe've been in lockdown since Xmas...

We have been reopening for the last month. Plus the unvaccinated super spreader age group 18-35 year olds never really "locked down" and who would blame them. Yet cases are plummeting.

If your not prepared to explain to me why this is the case other  than say "we've been in lockdown since x mass" then it's pointless arguing. By all metrics and based on canal drinking, Easter parties, paddy's day, protests and general couldntgiveashitanymoreology we should have 2000 cases a day amongst the "youths". I'm asking you for a reason? I don't need to explain mine, I've posted a scientific paper , go and read it.

I forgot to mention the case mining as well with the walk in tents. Even more baffling is the drop when they've to search for cases.

Science has dug themselves a hole on this. They keep digging.

Opposing voice = Conspiracy theorist

So you're not going to answer? I gave you an answer.

But like Angelo you've skipped it

Why are cases down here in the north and why are cases higher in the south?
Fairly low both sides are they not? Clearly the vaccine rollout is having a serious impact. Also since the vaccine only reduces the likelihood of someone spreading covid, not stopping it, it is the number of people actually getting ill that's important, positive cases will inevitably rise as we reopen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 19, 2021, 08:42:33 AM
It will be interesting now. Before christmas etc when cases rose then inevitably hospital numbers tracked with a wee bit of a lag but with the vaccine that should hopefully change significantly. Also the question is if numbers rise with reopenings then will the government give it time to check out hospital cases before going back into lockdown?

This thing seems to come in waves. In the past people here compared north and south numbers particularly at a point when the south was doing much better and then numbers just pretty much flipped. That seems to just happen anywhere. It seems to come in waves to different places at different times. (not following the seasons either e.g. France).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2021, 08:47:20 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 19, 2021, 08:17:43 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2021, 07:53:56 AM
Quote from: highorlow on April 19, 2021, 12:41:04 AM
QuoteWe've been in lockdown since Xmas...

We have been reopening for the last month. Plus the unvaccinated super spreader age group 18-35 year olds never really "locked down" and who would blame them. Yet cases are plummeting.

If your not prepared to explain to me why this is the case other  than say "we've been in lockdown since x mass" then it's pointless arguing. By all metrics and based on canal drinking, Easter parties, paddy's day, protests and general couldntgiveashitanymoreology we should have 2000 cases a day amongst the "youths". I'm asking you for a reason? I don't need to explain mine, I've posted a scientific paper , go and read it.

I forgot to mention the case mining as well with the walk in tents. Even more baffling is the drop when they've to search for cases.

Science has dug themselves a hole on this. They keep digging.

Opposing voice = Conspiracy theorist

So you're not going to answer? I gave you an answer.

But like Angelo you've skipped it

Why are cases down here in the north and why are cases higher in the south?
Fairly low both sides are they not? Clearly the vaccine rollout is having a serious impact. Also since the vaccine only reduces the likelihood of someone spreading covid, not stopping it, it is the number of people actually getting ill that's important, positive cases will inevitably rise as we reopen.

But sure its just a flu and we've been fooled along, all the deaths the hospitals being over run the madness of wrecking economies worldwide, the lies spread by the WHO and all those specialists have been shown by the report that Highorlow has put up as being a con..

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 19, 2021, 09:45:08 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2021, 01:14:52 AM
Quote from: highorlow on April 19, 2021, 12:13:45 AM
I'll ask you a simpler question.

Why are cases dropping?

People are behaving responsibly and many people are vaccinated.

Behaviour has steadily got worse.

And it's one that's thrown around too handy. Things going bad? People misbehaving. Things going good? Good people.

We've now seen Riots / Rangers fans out wrecking it etc, no spike.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on April 19, 2021, 09:51:24 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 19, 2021, 09:45:08 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 19, 2021, 01:14:52 AM
Quote from: highorlow on April 19, 2021, 12:13:45 AM
I'll ask you a simpler question.

Why are cases dropping?

People are behaving responsibly and many people are vaccinated.

Behaviour has steadily got worse.

And it's one that's thrown around too handy. Things going bad? People misbehaving. Things going good? Good people.

We've now seen Riots / Rangers fans out wrecking it etc, no spike.
Quite difficult to spread Covid outdoors, so no surprise there have been very few spikes associated with outdoor gatherings.

Plenty of spikes in the past from large indoor gatherings, but the vast majority of people in all age groups have avoided these.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 19, 2021, 10:55:48 AM
It's been apparent it's been indoors for months now. Yet the only option was "stay indoors".

Many of us said that there was no transmission outdoors. Yet sport has been stopped, at one stage you were only allowed to leave the house for 1 hour.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on April 19, 2021, 11:34:52 AM
sports/outdoor activites dont happen in isolation... this is the same argument as just protect the elderly and open up..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on April 19, 2021, 12:51:04 PM
Quote from: highorlow on April 18, 2021, 11:39:52 PM
QuoteIoannidis estimates that Covid has an average global Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) of ~0.15%. This is on the basis of surveying global seroprevalence data, i.e. statistics relating to the presence of Covid-19 antibodies in human blood samples.

Carry on sheepels. It ended for me after about a month. Plandemic.

Sniffing glue still a thing??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2021, 01:17:50 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 19, 2021, 10:55:48 AM
It's been apparent it's been indoors for months now. Yet the only option was "stay indoors".

Many of us said that there was no transmission outdoors. Yet sport has been stopped, at one stage you were only allowed to leave the house for 1 hour.

Explain how hotter countries like Spain and France are into a third wave
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 19, 2021, 01:46:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2021, 01:17:50 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 19, 2021, 10:55:48 AM
It's been apparent it's been indoors for months now. Yet the only option was "stay indoors".

Many of us said that there was no transmission outdoors. Yet sport has been stopped, at one stage you were only allowed to leave the house for 1 hour.

Explain how hotter countries like Spain and France are into a third wave

What's heat got to do with it?

All these reports are coming out now saying the risk of transmission in the open is neglible. Happy enough with that, no reason to have people stopped by police anymore if they want to go for a walk.

I said it long ago and was laughed out the gate, transmission will most likely be driven by person to person...i.e, personal relationships. Saliva transmission....etc. I never bought into this fairytale of droplets (moisture.....) floating around the air magically for an infinite period of time.....even more so in hotter climates.....

Spain and France have had basically all open, the whole time we've had all closed....bar the obvious, nightclubs etc. Their situation is not comparable to ours. They've had restaurants, bars, cafes all going...Various closing times but basically they've been able to do as they please since the very first real hard lockdown Spain had when you needed to have papers issued if you wanted to leave the apartment to go to work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 19, 2021, 02:27:02 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 19, 2021, 01:46:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2021, 01:17:50 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 19, 2021, 10:55:48 AM
It's been apparent it's been indoors for months now. Yet the only option was "stay indoors".

Many of us said that there was no transmission outdoors. Yet sport has been stopped, at one stage you were only allowed to leave the house for 1 hour.

Explain how hotter countries like Spain and France are into a third wave

What's heat got to do with it?

All these reports are coming out now saying the risk of transmission in the open is neglible. Happy enough with that, no reason to have people stopped by police anymore if they want to go for a walk.

I said it long ago and was laughed out the gate, transmission will most likely be driven by person to person...i.e, personal relationships. Saliva transmission....etc. I never bought into this fairytale of droplets (moisture.....) floating around the air magically for an infinite period of time.....even more so in hotter climates.....

Spain and France have had basically all open, the whole time we've had all closed....bar the obvious, nightclubs etc. Their situation is not comparable to ours. They've had restaurants, bars, cafes all going...Various closing times but basically they've been able to do as they please since the very first real hard lockdown Spain had when you needed to have papers issued if you wanted to leave the apartment to go to work.

Did Spain not re-enter a state of emergency again in Oct with a national curfew?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 19, 2021, 02:30:58 PM
That's the one I'm talking about, they literally were not allowed to leave the house without paperwork. Since that ended they've had (relative) normality.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 19, 2021, 03:55:00 PM
Is it not due to end in 9th  May 2021?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 19, 2021, 05:07:42 PM
Yes the latest lockdown is, but they've had 50% cap in bars, restaurants etc and 75% cap in museums and the likes the past few months in Madrid for example. Their 'strict' lockdown rules are no smoking in public, facecoverings in public and everywhere closed by 1100. Golf has been ongoing etc...

We've had literally nothing whatsoever from 26th December in the North. So it's not like for like and comparable to ourselves.

What we wouldn't have given over the past 4 1/2 months to get a few pints and a feed and home by 1100.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2021, 05:55:25 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 19, 2021, 05:07:42 PM
Yes the latest lockdown is, but they've had 50% cap in bars, restaurants etc and 75% cap in museums and the likes the past few months in Madrid for example. Their 'strict' lockdown rules are no smoking in public, facecoverings in public and everywhere closed by 1100. Golf has been ongoing etc...

We've had literally nothing whatsoever from 26th December in the North. So it's not like for like and comparable to ourselves.

What we wouldn't have given over the past 4 1/2 months to get a few pints and a feed and home by 1100.

Do you think the numbers here would have went up had we followed France and Spain's approach?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 19, 2021, 08:18:56 PM
Numbers will always go up, Covid is never going away....until of course we get a vaccine whenever that may that "stops" transmission...

We are in a good place, we've had a few 'test' events....the Rangers lads, Easter has been two weeks past now....lets be honest, the guard is long down - I know ones who have the double vaccine now, wouldn't have walked within 5 metres of me in work before now talking about having a party at weekend and going on holidays.

Look at the Norths recent stats, last week 12-18 April, 48 thousand tested.....776 postive cases of a population of 1.89million. If we don't try to live life now, when will we ever? And we have well over 1 million now vaccinated. Spain and France could only dream of being in our situation and we suffered for about 20 weeks since the now legendary "circuit breaker" for it.....Christ, remember that?

Does anyone know anybody isolating anymore? Does anyone know anyone who has it? Miniscule numbers. It's never going away, it's always going to be there......The media are driving this "waves" carry on, no news sells like bad news. They've been having a field day in the last year, variants, mutant variants....

Sooner or later someone is going to have to make the decision to stop this daily reporting on numbers, I'm not downplaying Covid, of course not. But if you didn't hear the one's on Cool FM or whatever banging on about 1 dead and 77 cases or whatever. You wouldn't know anymore, what has been the point of the last year of hell, if we can't start to move on now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2021, 10:45:09 PM
We are relaxing it, outside pubs opening up on the 30th see how that goes then other things opening up. It's a slow shitty process, I wish we opened up yesterday but I'd rather never have another lockdown, you seem hell bent on opening everything up.

If we do we'll be back in lockdown then everyone complaining again.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 20, 2021, 09:33:32 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 19, 2021, 10:45:09 PM
We are relaxing it, outside pubs opening up on the 30th see how that goes then other things opening up. It's a slow shitty process, I wish we opened up yesterday but I'd rather never have another lockdown, you seem hell bent on opening everything up.

If we do we'll be back in lockdown then everyone complaining again.

I am happy with the current plan as is - Much like yourself I don't want another lockdown so lets do this right. I think we could have moved before now, but at the same time I'm happy enough we've had Easter out of the road and there seems to be no kick back so it is what it is, lets hope it holds.

The only issue I have is with the media scare porn, this talk of waves and France and Spain - France and Spain have been living relative normality and have had a poor to rubbish vaccine rollout. We have been in a much stricter set of regulations for months and in the meantime pumped out the vaccine that is working. It looks like our tactic has been the right one, thankfully we look to be well past the worst. Europe still has a big problem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 20, 2021, 12:49:28 PM
The Indo reporting two nurses who were fully vaccinated have caught Covid.

Why is this even f**king news - complete scaremongering
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 12:53:58 PM
How sick are they? If they're not overly sick then it's nonsense. If they're in ICU or something then maybe some news I guess.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2021, 12:55:13 PM
Was it one of the vaccinations that mean you can't catch Covid?

As they haven't f**king made these yet!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 12:58:29 PM
QuoteBoth staff members were fully vaccinated, receiving their second doses in February and neither have symptoms of any sort,

FFS
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 20, 2021, 01:06:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 20, 2021, 12:49:28 PM
The Indo reporting two nurses who were fully vaccinated have caught Covid.

Why is this even f**king news - complete scaremongering

The media are scum. They face absolutely no scrutiny and can basically write what they want daily for sales.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on April 20, 2021, 01:50:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 12:58:29 PM
QuoteBoth staff members were fully vaccinated, receiving their second doses in February and neither have symptoms of any sort,

FFS
Seems odd. Why were they even tested if they were fully vaccinated and had no symptoms? Doesn't add up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 20, 2021, 02:15:56 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 20, 2021, 01:50:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 12:58:29 PM
QuoteBoth staff members were fully vaccinated, receiving their second doses in February and neither have symptoms of any sort,

FFS
Seems odd. Why were they even tested if they were fully vaccinated and had no symptoms? Doesn't add up.

They want to test the efficacy of the vaccines in the real world and with health care workers who are working with immunocompromised patients then you can't take a chance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general on April 20, 2021, 02:20:55 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 20, 2021, 01:50:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 12:58:29 PM
QuoteBoth staff members were fully vaccinated, receiving their second doses in February and neither have symptoms of any sort,

FFS
Seems odd. Why were they even tested if they were fully vaccinated and had no symptoms? Doesn't add up.

Im working on the Construction of the New Childrens Hospital - testing once weekly. General Rule of thumb is you dont get tested if you have previously been positive or have been vaccinated
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 20, 2021, 02:37:44 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 20, 2021, 01:06:44 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 20, 2021, 12:49:28 PM
The Indo reporting two nurses who were fully vaccinated have caught Covid.

Why is this even f**king news - complete scaremongering

The media are scum. They face absolutely no scrutiny and can basically write what they want daily for sales.

Absolutely.
Scum of the highest order.

No such thing as bad publicity FFS.

These bastards need held accountability
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 20, 2021, 04:10:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 20, 2021, 02:15:56 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 20, 2021, 01:50:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 12:58:29 PM
QuoteBoth staff members were fully vaccinated, receiving their second doses in February and neither have symptoms of any sort,

FFS
Seems odd. Why were they even tested if they were fully vaccinated and had no symptoms? Doesn't add up.

They want to test the efficacy of the vaccines in the real world and with health care workers who are working with immunocompromised patients then you can't take a chance.
Never be rid of this fecking thing if we keep testing healthy people with no symptoms who have been vaccinated
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 20, 2021, 04:13:19 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 20, 2021, 04:10:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 20, 2021, 02:15:56 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 20, 2021, 01:50:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 12:58:29 PM
QuoteBoth staff members were fully vaccinated, receiving their second doses in February and neither have symptoms of any sort,

FFS
Seems odd. Why were they even tested if they were fully vaccinated and had no symptoms? Doesn't add up.

They want to test the efficacy of the vaccines in the real world and with health care workers who are working with immunocompromised patients then you can't take a chance.
Never be rid of this fecking thing if we keep testing healthy people with no symptoms who have been vaccinated

You certainly won't if you allow infected nurses to work freely in a close working environment..

There's no guarantees that the vaccine is 100% and that you won't spread CV when you get the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on April 20, 2021, 04:30:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 20, 2021, 04:10:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 20, 2021, 02:15:56 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 20, 2021, 01:50:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 12:58:29 PM
QuoteBoth staff members were fully vaccinated, receiving their second doses in February and neither have symptoms of any sort,

FFS
Seems odd. Why were they even tested if they were fully vaccinated and had no symptoms? Doesn't add up.

They want to test the efficacy of the vaccines in the real world and with health care workers who are working with immunocompromised patients then you can't take a chance.
Never be rid of this fecking thing if we keep testing healthy people with no symptoms who have been vaccinated

So your saying is we ignore it and everything will be ok  ???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 20, 2021, 05:12:12 PM
Seems to be a few posters in a twilight zone of some sort ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on April 20, 2021, 05:19:48 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 20, 2021, 12:49:28 PM
The Indo reporting two nurses who were fully vaccinated have caught Covid.

Why is this even f**king news - complete scaremongering

This is worth a read.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1381327338533699587
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on April 20, 2021, 10:57:25 PM
Fake News tonight on RTE Primetime regarding the 2020 excess deaths.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2021, 11:13:26 PM
Quote from: highorlow on April 20, 2021, 10:57:25 PM
Fake News tonight on RTE Primetime regarding the 2020 excess deaths.

Shoulda been flu deaths?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on April 20, 2021, 11:39:57 PM
Fake news on excess deaths on RTE primetime tonight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on April 20, 2021, 11:44:21 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/RTE_PrimeTime/status/1384612608368693251

They just created a new calendar year. Incredible isn't it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on April 20, 2021, 11:51:05 PM
was covid not aware that January is the first month of the year?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on April 20, 2021, 11:59:01 PM
According to figures from the hse more people died in Ireland in

2016
2017
2018
2019

than in 2020.

I wasn't "aware" of Covid pre 2020.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on April 21, 2021, 01:08:42 AM
Looks like India is fast becoming the new epicentre .... close to 300,000 cases in one day ... just about every household in Delhi has a COVID patient going by government stats.  In a country of 1.3 billion, social distancing ain't gonna happen.  Looks like talk of this ending anytime soon in Ireland is premature, unless we isolate the whole island ... no one gets in!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2021, 07:58:05 AM
That's wrong, Angelo said India had it sussed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 21, 2021, 07:59:48 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on April 20, 2021, 04:30:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 20, 2021, 04:10:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 20, 2021, 02:15:56 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 20, 2021, 01:50:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 12:58:29 PM
QuoteBoth staff members were fully vaccinated, receiving their second doses in February and neither have symptoms of any sort,

FFS
Seems odd. Why were they even tested if they were fully vaccinated and had no symptoms? Doesn't add up.

They want to test the efficacy of the vaccines in the real world and with health care workers who are working with immunocompromised patients then you can't take a chance.
Never be rid of this fecking thing if we keep testing healthy people with no symptoms who have been vaccinated

So your saying is we ignore it and everything will be ok  ???
Pretty much at this stage yeah!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2021, 08:02:41 AM
So ignore testing nurses that work with vulnerable people who's immune systems are weak?

Interesting views there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on April 21, 2021, 09:55:20 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 21, 2021, 07:59:48 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on April 20, 2021, 04:30:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 20, 2021, 04:10:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 20, 2021, 02:15:56 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 20, 2021, 01:50:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 12:58:29 PM
QuoteBoth staff members were fully vaccinated, receiving their second doses in February and neither have symptoms of any sort,

FFS
Seems odd. Why were they even tested if they were fully vaccinated and had no symptoms? Doesn't add up.

They want to test the efficacy of the vaccines in the real world and with health care workers who are working with immunocompromised patients then you can't take a chance.
Never be rid of this fecking thing if we keep testing healthy people with no symptoms who have been vaccinated

So your saying is we ignore it and everything will be ok  ???
Pretty much at this stage yeah!

Wise up ffs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 21, 2021, 10:00:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2021, 07:58:05 AM
That's wrong, Angelo said India had it sussed

He must be due back soon.

Looking forward to this board picking up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on April 21, 2021, 04:46:58 PM
Quote from: highorlow on April 20, 2021, 11:59:01 PM
According to figures from the hse more people died in Ireland in

2016
2017
2018
2019

than in 2020.

I wasn't "aware" of Covid pre 2020.

Why is it always about deaths with you lads?

The dead didn't bung up health services the world over for most of the last 12 months - they just died and were put in the ground.

It was those that 'survived' infection that burned through weeks and months of ICU resources and medical staff time. These people were the problem, not the dead. Do you and your wolf buddies ever chat about these numbers?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on April 22, 2021, 02:42:42 AM
Is RIP.ie data the best for such studies?

A lot of Irish people died in the UK, USA etc in the pandemic and were listed like this "County Kildare , Late of New York"

That's an Irish death in the pandemic but it's not a death in Ireland. You need to read every death notice post on RIP.Ie to see where people died and I doubt those researchers at Maynooth University did that.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rich Ricci on April 22, 2021, 06:49:42 PM
Watching the news there and it's madness some of the stuff going on in India at the minute. 320,000+ cases recorded in the last day. Oxygen supplies running low too. Hospitals completely overwhelmed and it doesn't seem to be slowing down.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 22, 2021, 08:19:04 PM
Quote from: Rich Ricci on April 22, 2021, 06:49:42 PM
Watching the news there and it's madness some of the stuff going on in India at the minute. 320,000+ cases recorded in the last day. Oxygen supplies running low too. Hospitals completely overwhelmed and it doesn't seem to be slowing down.

They had approximately 5 million at a Religious event recently, no mask mandate....nothing. Hard to feel sorry for them, not as if they haven't got the idea by now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 22, 2021, 08:24:28 PM
I would say that's a bit harsh....

Where are the death tolls for the south? I remember reading a post on social media in about February  about how the death toll in the north was lower last year than for years. There was a picture of an excel spreadsheet to validate it and it was complete nonsense. That's not to say highorlow is wrong but is there official data for this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on April 23, 2021, 12:47:11 AM
What is everyone's thoughts for a return to a more normal society ... do we envisage attendances being permitted at this year's NFL or Championship games?  When are we likely to see capacity crowds at sporting events, concerts etc.

We messed it all up last time after lockdown and ended up in another sustained lockdown from December until now ...the big difference this time is the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on April 23, 2021, 02:15:14 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on April 23, 2021, 12:47:11 AM
What is everyone's thoughts for a return to a more normal society ... do we envisage attendances being permitted at this year's NFL or Championship games?  When are we likely to see capacity crowds at sporting events, concerts etc.

We messed it all up last time after lockdown and ended up in another sustained lockdown from December until now ...the big difference this time is the vaccine.

NFL more than likely played behind closed doors. Though I feel a few matches should be used as a trial for supporters to return.

Championship depending on vaccine situation should have crowds of 25% capacity.

Capacity crowds 2022 at the earliest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 23, 2021, 07:50:10 AM
Denmark football games seem to have large numbers at their games
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on April 23, 2021, 07:59:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 23, 2021, 07:50:10 AM
Denmark football games seem to have large numbers at their games

One approach worth following?

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56812293.amp
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 23, 2021, 08:51:37 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 23, 2021, 07:59:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 23, 2021, 07:50:10 AM
Denmark football games seem to have large numbers at their games

One approach worth following?

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56812293.amp

The freedom fighters here wouldn't allow such a sensible plan!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 23, 2021, 08:53:30 AM
So basically get yourself vaccinated or get yourself tested very very regularly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on April 23, 2021, 09:20:29 AM
Some of the reporting and stories from India is truly shocking.

Hospitals running out of oxygen, beds, places to put the dead. Showed one man lying in back of car as a makeshift hospital bed. One hospital reported 25 dead in one night of people they couldn't give oxygen to. Basically they could do nothing for them as they didn't have resources. Similar stories from all over.

It seems to have stemmed from Gov believing they had overcome the worst of it and in January they lifted blocks of restrictions - schools, office workers etc but also allowing mass gatherings for religious services and political rally's and they very slow to stop them and many are still happening.

Their vaccine roll out has been slow despite been one of the biggest vaccine manufacturers in the world. Only ordered 100m doses themselves and exported rest.

The fear is that it only getting worse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TabClear on April 23, 2021, 09:28:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 23, 2021, 08:53:30 AM
So basically get yourself vaccinated or get yourself tested very very regularly.

That seems reasonable enough to me? The people who choose not to get a Vaccine can make sure they keep themselves tested otherwise they are restricted in where they go. Not sure who pays for the tests?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ty4Sam on April 23, 2021, 09:29:31 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 23, 2021, 07:59:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 23, 2021, 07:50:10 AM
Denmark football games seem to have large numbers at their games

One approach worth following?

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56812293.amp

Not against this approach at all but one possible flaw is an expiry date on the passport. Covid immunity from vaccines doesn't last forever, in fact it's unknown at this stage, as people's immunity erodes how will these passports be policed, especially as they are accepting paper passports. Sounds like a logistical nightmare to me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 23, 2021, 09:43:59 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 23, 2021, 02:15:14 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on April 23, 2021, 12:47:11 AM
What is everyone's thoughts for a return to a more normal society ... do we envisage attendances being permitted at this year's NFL or Championship games?  When are we likely to see capacity crowds at sporting events, concerts etc.

We messed it all up last time after lockdown and ended up in another sustained lockdown from December until now ...the big difference this time is the vaccine.

NFL more than likely played behind closed doors. Though I feel a few matches should be used as a trial for supporters to return.

Championship depending on vaccine situation should have crowds of 25% capacity.

Capacity crowds 2022 at the earliest.
Some of the NFL/NHL play offs could be used as trials.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 23, 2021, 10:00:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 23, 2021, 08:53:30 AM
So basically get yourself vaccinated or get yourself tested very very regularly.

Nothing wrong with this, best of both worlds for all.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 23, 2021, 10:17:29 AM
Yeah I would tend to agree. It means you don't have to get vaccinated if you're against it or if you have medical reasons for it but you have to compromise with regular testing. That is fair enough.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on April 23, 2021, 10:18:31 AM
Quote from: TabClear on April 23, 2021, 09:28:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 23, 2021, 08:53:30 AM
So basically get yourself vaccinated or get yourself tested very very regularly.

That seems reasonable enough to me? The people who choose not to get a Vaccine can make sure they keep themselves tested otherwise they are restricted in where they go. Not sure who pays for the tests?

You can be sure people will have to pay for their own tests, leaving them with little choice but to take the vaccines.

This passport won't be for a year or two. This will never end.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 23, 2021, 10:20:04 AM
Quote from: Angelo on February 13, 2021, 10:14:43 PM
What we know about India is that they haven't had the hugely restrictive lockdowns we have had for the past 7/8 months.

We know that India is a country with huge densely populated cities and their death rate is very, very low relative to their population from Covid.

This hasn't ages well  ::)

I wonder will, if he ever comes back discuss this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TabClear on April 23, 2021, 10:23:37 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 23, 2021, 10:18:31 AM
Quote from: TabClear on April 23, 2021, 09:28:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 23, 2021, 08:53:30 AM
So basically get yourself vaccinated or get yourself tested very very regularly.

That seems reasonable enough to me? The people who choose not to get a Vaccine can make sure they keep themselves tested otherwise they are restricted in where they go. Not sure who pays for the tests?

You can be sure people will have to pay for their own tests, leaving them with little choice but to take the vaccines.

This passport won't be for a year or two. This will never end.

And that seems fair enough to me. One off vaccine option (accepting that one off might mean yearly etc) funded by government. If you choose not to avail of that because of your own views on the vaccine you bear the additional costs associated with maintaining your vaccine free lifestyle.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 23, 2021, 10:30:13 AM
Are there not some medical reasons you can't get vaccinated or am I mistaken on that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 23, 2021, 10:36:05 AM
Can't get it if you are pregnant, those prone to allergic reactions, haven't been keeping up to date with the clotting thing but suppose there will be those too if you are likely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on April 23, 2021, 10:40:32 AM
The craic with these domestic vaccine passports seems very overplayed, in this part of the world anyway.

The time when they would offer some utility is right now, but they won't be entertained until everyone has been offered the jab - which is fair enough.

Vaccine take up to date has been extremely high. If that continues down the age groups, the benefit of a vaccine passport system will be negligible. So negligible as to not be worth the hassle of riling up the hold outs.

Unless vaccine take up drops off a cliff in the under-30s age group, I'd be pretty confident we'll never be asked for a passport to get into a pub or a match.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 23, 2021, 11:06:04 AM
Those who have got the vaccine, I take it, it's linked to your National Insurance number when you get it anyway?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on April 23, 2021, 11:14:15 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 23, 2021, 11:06:04 AM
Those who have got the vaccine, I take it, it's linked to your National Insurance number when you get it anyway?

Attached to your HCN
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on April 23, 2021, 11:17:01 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 23, 2021, 10:40:32 AM
The craic with these domestic vaccine passports seems very overplayed, in this part of the world anyway.

The time when they would offer some utility is right now, but they won't be entertained until everyone has been offered the jab - which is fair enough.

Vaccine take up to date has been extremely high. If that continues down the age groups, the benefit of a vaccine passport system will be negligible. So negligible as to not be worth the hassle of riling up the hold outs.

Unless vaccine take up drops off a cliff in the under-30s age group, I'd be pretty confident we'll never be asked for a passport to get into a pub or a match.

You can be sure you'll be asked for a passport, even if every one in the world is vaccinated
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on April 23, 2021, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 23, 2021, 11:17:01 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 23, 2021, 10:40:32 AM
The craic with these domestic vaccine passports seems very overplayed, in this part of the world anyway.

The time when they would offer some utility is right now, but they won't be entertained until everyone has been offered the jab - which is fair enough.

Vaccine take up to date has been extremely high. If that continues down the age groups, the benefit of a vaccine passport system will be negligible. So negligible as to not be worth the hassle of riling up the hold outs.

Unless vaccine take up drops off a cliff in the under-30s age group, I'd be pretty confident we'll never be asked for a passport to get into a pub or a match.

You can be sure you'll be asked for a passport, even if every one in the world is vaccinated

How can you be sure?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on April 23, 2021, 11:31:04 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 23, 2021, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 23, 2021, 11:17:01 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 23, 2021, 10:40:32 AM
The craic with these domestic vaccine passports seems very overplayed, in this part of the world anyway.

The time when they would offer some utility is right now, but they won't be entertained until everyone has been offered the jab - which is fair enough.

Vaccine take up to date has been extremely high. If that continues down the age groups, the benefit of a vaccine passport system will be negligible. So negligible as to not be worth the hassle of riling up the hold outs.

Unless vaccine take up drops off a cliff in the under-30s age group, I'd be pretty confident we'll never be asked for a passport to get into a pub or a match.

You can be sure you'll be asked for a passport, even if every one in the world is vaccinated

How can you be sure?

He can't be. He's just making up things to be annoyed about. As if there aren't more enough real things in the world to be pissed off about...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on April 23, 2021, 11:35:26 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 23, 2021, 11:31:04 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 23, 2021, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 23, 2021, 11:17:01 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 23, 2021, 10:40:32 AM
The craic with these domestic vaccine passports seems very overplayed, in this part of the world anyway.

The time when they would offer some utility is right now, but they won't be entertained until everyone has been offered the jab - which is fair enough.

Vaccine take up to date has been extremely high. If that continues down the age groups, the benefit of a vaccine passport system will be negligible. So negligible as to not be worth the hassle of riling up the hold outs.

Unless vaccine take up drops off a cliff in the under-30s age group, I'd be pretty confident we'll never be asked for a passport to get into a pub or a match.

You can be sure you'll be asked for a passport, even if every one in the world is vaccinated

How can you be sure?

He can't be. He's just making up things to be annoyed about. As if there aren't more enough real things in the world to be pissed off about...

Baby eating Hollywood A-listers?  :)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on April 23, 2021, 01:11:42 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 23, 2021, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 23, 2021, 11:17:01 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 23, 2021, 10:40:32 AM
The craic with these domestic vaccine passports seems very overplayed, in this part of the world anyway.

The time when they would offer some utility is right now, but they won't be entertained until everyone has been offered the jab - which is fair enough.

Vaccine take up to date has been extremely high. If that continues down the age groups, the benefit of a vaccine passport system will be negligible. So negligible as to not be worth the hassle of riling up the hold outs.

Unless vaccine take up drops off a cliff in the under-30s age group, I'd be pretty confident we'll never be asked for a passport to get into a pub or a match.

You can be sure you'll be asked for a passport, even if every one in the world is vaccinated

How can you be sure?

Because by keeping it going is financial rewarding. Pharmaceuticals and technology companies will continue to profit from it. In turn, politicians will profit from it, like Matt Handjob who has shares in medical companies. No doubt many others are linked to the companies that are involved too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 23, 2021, 01:20:52 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 23, 2021, 01:11:42 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 23, 2021, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 23, 2021, 11:17:01 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 23, 2021, 10:40:32 AM
The craic with these domestic vaccine passports seems very overplayed, in this part of the world anyway.

The time when they would offer some utility is right now, but they won't be entertained until everyone has been offered the jab - which is fair enough.

Vaccine take up to date has been extremely high. If that continues down the age groups, the benefit of a vaccine passport system will be negligible. So negligible as to not be worth the hassle of riling up the hold outs.

Unless vaccine take up drops off a cliff in the under-30s age group, I'd be pretty confident we'll never be asked for a passport to get into a pub or a match.

You can be sure you'll be asked for a passport, even if every one in the world is vaccinated

How can you be sure?

Because by keeping it going is financial rewarding. Pharmaceuticals and technology companies will continue to profit from it. In turn, politicians will profit from it, like Matt Handjob who has shares in medical companies. No doubt many others are linked to the companies that are involved too.

World Economic disasters, the worst unemployment for decades and now intelligent posters are claiming its all about making money!!

Its nearly as plausible as Mike Myers as Dr Evil taking over the pharmaceutical companies!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on April 23, 2021, 01:49:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 23, 2021, 09:43:59 AM

Some of the NFL/NHL play offs could be used as trials.
Maybe and its seems any crowds will be well under 10,000 after confirmation that June's European championships matches in Dublin are lost/ given away to other countries

Minister of State for Sport Jack Chambers 

QuoteWe will have spectators back at games this summer. To do 11,000 in June as a starter event would be an extraordinary step up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on April 23, 2021, 02:00:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 23, 2021, 01:20:52 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 23, 2021, 01:11:42 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 23, 2021, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 23, 2021, 11:17:01 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 23, 2021, 10:40:32 AM
The craic with these domestic vaccine passports seems very overplayed, in this part of the world anyway.

The time when they would offer some utility is right now, but they won't be entertained until everyone has been offered the jab - which is fair enough.

Vaccine take up to date has been extremely high. If that continues down the age groups, the benefit of a vaccine passport system will be negligible. So negligible as to not be worth the hassle of riling up the hold outs.

Unless vaccine take up drops off a cliff in the under-30s age group, I'd be pretty confident we'll never be asked for a passport to get into a pub or a match.

You can be sure you'll be asked for a passport, even if every one in the world is vaccinated

How can you be sure?

Because by keeping it going is financial rewarding. Pharmaceuticals and technology companies will continue to profit from it. In turn, politicians will profit from it, like Matt Handjob who has shares in medical companies. No doubt many others are linked to the companies that are involved too.

World Economic disasters, the worst unemployment for decades and now intelligent posters are claiming its all about making money!!

Its nearly as plausible as Mike Myers as Dr Evil taking over the pharmaceutical companies!

You obviously don't remember Donald Rumsfeld and Tamiflu.

These people are no different to the big 6 club owners, who want to start the European Super League. Everyone seen how greedy, corrupt and disgusting it is, yet nobody doubts what politicians, governments, pharmaceuticals etc are up to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on April 23, 2021, 03:18:34 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 23, 2021, 02:00:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 23, 2021, 01:20:52 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 23, 2021, 01:11:42 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 23, 2021, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 23, 2021, 11:17:01 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 23, 2021, 10:40:32 AM
The craic with these domestic vaccine passports seems very overplayed, in this part of the world anyway.

The time when they would offer some utility is right now, but they won't be entertained until everyone has been offered the jab - which is fair enough.

Vaccine take up to date has been extremely high. If that continues down the age groups, the benefit of a vaccine passport system will be negligible. So negligible as to not be worth the hassle of riling up the hold outs.

Unless vaccine take up drops off a cliff in the under-30s age group, I'd be pretty confident we'll never be asked for a passport to get into a pub or a match.

You can be sure you'll be asked for a passport, even if every one in the world is vaccinated

How can you be sure?

Because by keeping it going is financial rewarding. Pharmaceuticals and technology companies will continue to profit from it. In turn, politicians will profit from it, like Matt Handjob who has shares in medical companies. No doubt many others are linked to the companies that are involved too.

World Economic disasters, the worst unemployment for decades and now intelligent posters are claiming its all about making money!!

Its nearly as plausible as Mike Myers as Dr Evil taking over the pharmaceutical companies!

You obviously don't remember Donald Rumsfeld and Tamiflu.

These people are no different to the big 6 club owners, who want to start the European Super League. Everyone seen how greedy, corrupt and disgusting it is, yet nobody doubts what politicians, governments, pharmaceuticals etc are up to.

You actually believe politicians, governments (all governments or a select few as a matter of interest?) pharmaceutical companies will keep this global pandemic going to benefit their bank accounts? Beyond lunacy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on April 23, 2021, 04:13:21 PM
Safe to say that India can be chalked off the list of countries which have handled this well.

Some shocking scenes in this report/video.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-56858403
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on April 23, 2021, 04:16:37 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 23, 2021, 03:18:34 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 23, 2021, 02:00:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 23, 2021, 01:20:52 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 23, 2021, 01:11:42 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on April 23, 2021, 11:19:42 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 23, 2021, 11:17:01 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 23, 2021, 10:40:32 AM
The craic with these domestic vaccine passports seems very overplayed, in this part of the world anyway.

The time when they would offer some utility is right now, but they won't be entertained until everyone has been offered the jab - which is fair enough.

Vaccine take up to date has been extremely high. If that continues down the age groups, the benefit of a vaccine passport system will be negligible. So negligible as to not be worth the hassle of riling up the hold outs.

Unless vaccine take up drops off a cliff in the under-30s age group, I'd be pretty confident we'll never be asked for a passport to get into a pub or a match.

You can be sure you'll be asked for a passport, even if every one in the world is vaccinated

How can you be sure?

Because by keeping it going is financial rewarding. Pharmaceuticals and technology companies will continue to profit from it. In turn, politicians will profit from it, like Matt Handjob who has shares in medical companies. No doubt many others are linked to the companies that are involved too.

World Economic disasters, the worst unemployment for decades and now intelligent posters are claiming its all about making money!!

Its nearly as plausible as Mike Myers as Dr Evil taking over the pharmaceutical companies!

You obviously don't remember Donald Rumsfeld and Tamiflu.

These people are no different to the big 6 club owners, who want to start the European Super League. Everyone seen how greedy, corrupt and disgusting it is, yet nobody doubts what politicians, governments, pharmaceuticals etc are up to.

You actually believe politicians, governments (all governments or a select few as a matter of interest?) pharmaceutical companies will keep this global pandemic going to benefit their bank accounts? Beyond lunacy

Of course they will. Even if Covid has been seen to be eradicated, they'll still keep it going; jabs, tests, apps, technology, etc.

Governments and politicians start wars, don't they? They remain in Iraq nearly 20 years later, even though the supposed threat has been eliminated. Why are they still there? Why are they keeping it going? War is big business, that's why. Never mind the real reason for any war (oil, diamonds, gold etc), it generates huge contracts for arms companies, big building contractors, technology companies... even companies who feed the armies. I think it cost something like $1 million a day to feed US soldiers in Iraq. And its guaranteed all these companies are linked to government officials.

Covid is like a new style of warfare. Of course they will keep it going, even  if the threat has been eliminated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 23, 2021, 09:08:45 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 23, 2021, 04:13:21 PM
Safe to say that India can be chalked off the list of countries which have handled this well.

Some shocking scenes in this report/video.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-56858403
The numbers are staggering. India, Brazil and Trump era USA have terrible numbers due to being led by balloons more interested in power and control than the lives of their population.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 23, 2021, 09:13:32 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 23, 2021, 09:08:45 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 23, 2021, 04:13:21 PM
Safe to say that India can be chalked off the list of countries which have handled this well.

Some shocking scenes in this report/video.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-56858403
The numbers are staggering. India, Brazil and Trump era USA have terrible numbers due to being led by balloons more interested in power and control than the lives of their population.

Can't wait for smurphy (who's been missing since being caught out in every post) and Angelo on how good India did during all this!

As for global economic disaster is the way forward to making money is completely beyond the pail!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on April 24, 2021, 09:11:39 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 23, 2021, 09:13:32 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 23, 2021, 09:08:45 PM
Quote from: Franko on April 23, 2021, 04:13:21 PM
Safe to say that India can be chalked off the list of countries which have handled this well.

Some shocking scenes in this report/video.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-56858403
The numbers are staggering. India, Brazil and Trump era USA have terrible numbers due to being led by balloons more interested in power and control than the lives of their population.

Can't wait for smurphy (who's been missing since being caught out in every post) and Angelo on how good India did during all this!

As for global economic disaster is the way forward to making money is completely beyond the pail!

The numbers in India are going through the roof. They thought they were okay as 50-60% of people had already had it and they had opened up. This wave seems to be driven by a new variant which is more transmissible. They should have locked down again weeks ago but again it's down to very poor leadership. Just like in Brazil where the health service is overwhelmed also. These right wing authoritarian leaders have been disastrous in this pandemic. Thank God for Biden in the US because he's worked like a Trojan to undo some of the terrible damage done by trump.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2021, 09:12:07 AM
Milly where have I mentioned India?
I think it's seasonal
We opened everything last summer without a hint of the virus then as we enter October it comes back
Why no ride over Easter when the country was at house party's?
All sports back 2 weeks and not a hint of a rise
Milly knows everything
You still haven't got back to me regarding Texas?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2021, 09:21:56 AM
Some perspective needed around India lads

0.02 of India's population = 280000 cases

0.02 of Northern Ireland's population = 360 cases


Perspective lads
India's 280000 cases is the same is N Ireland having 360

Perspective Milly
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 24, 2021, 09:28:32 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2021, 09:21:56 AM
Some perspective needed around India lads

0.02 of India's population = 280000 cases

0.02 of Northern Ireland's population = 360 cases


Perspective lads
India's 280000 cases is the same is N Ireland having 360

Perspective Milly

So you're not mentioning India but are? You're a strange one.

So explain seasonal to me? Is the virus transmission rates higher in winter? Or are the seasons you talk about all four seasons?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2021, 09:31:25 AM
Milly I mentioned India to clear things up
Perspective needed Milly
You would confuse a lot with the oul scaremongering
280000 cases in India is the equivalent of 360 here
Stop the scaremongering
Get the work clothes ready your furlough will soon be over
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 24, 2021, 11:58:13 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2021, 09:31:25 AM
Milly I mentioned India to clear things up
Perspective needed Milly
You would confuse a lot with the oul scaremongering
280000 cases in India is the equivalent of 360 here
Stop the scaremongering
Get the work clothes ready your furlough will soon be over

😂😂
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 24, 2021, 01:24:47 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2021, 09:31:25 AM
Milly I mentioned India to clear things up
Perspective needed Milly
You would confuse a lot with the oul scaremongering
280000 cases in India is the equivalent of 360 here
Stop the scaremongering
Get the work clothes ready your furlough will soon be over

So you're not going to explain the seasonal virus thing?

You couldn't clear your throat
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on April 24, 2021, 03:04:23 PM
Have I not explained it?
The virus disappeared from May until October and then returned and now is disappearing

Also not a single flu case

I would say a few covid cases are in fact the flu
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 24, 2021, 04:55:29 PM
How do you explain spikes in places like France now? Or even India?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 24, 2021, 05:13:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 24, 2021, 04:55:29 PM
How do you explain spikes in places like France now? Or even India?

He can't, unless our winters start in March and finish in June and start again in September! Obviously missed that lesson in primary school.

Now he's convinced flu is actually Covid! What a dunce
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on April 25, 2021, 04:25:56 PM
ROI weekly update

Cases 3135 (534 more than last week but we had over 10,000 extra tests carried out this week)

Reported deaths 43 (11 fewer than last week)

In hospital 174 (7 fewer than a week ago)
In ICU 45 (2 fewer than last Sunday)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 25, 2021, 06:42:36 PM
The vaccination in the 26 counties has now cranked up with more than 1% of the adult population being jabbed in the last few days, the 26 has moved to more pro rate than the 6 counties, so begins to catch up. If they deliver the vaccine quantities ordered by the end of June then everyone will have a first dose by 12 July, and everyone will be completely done by the 15th of August. Deliveries are a problem, but 60% of it is Pfizer and they are taking orders at this stage, so it will be done in the summer either way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 25, 2021, 07:04:17 PM
All adults by the 12th July? That's an amazing turn around, well done to get both jabs in after falling behind
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 25, 2021, 08:39:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 25, 2021, 07:04:17 PM
All adults by the 12th July? That's an amazing turn around, well done to get both jabs in after falling behind

First jab by then and a month to catch up on the second jab. They need to start on the teenagers then.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 26, 2021, 12:16:30 PM
Things are very bad in India. Mutant Covid versions will emerge and threaten the efficacy of vaccines. The pandemic isn't over by a long shot.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/indians-starve-as-covid-crisis-deepens/

Unable to keep up with the soaring number of deaths, mass cremations are taking place in parking lots and others are having to keep the bodies of their loved ones in their homes.
But beneath the headlines a wider hunger crisis is building, one that if left unchecked could start to engulf large parts of the country. Approximately 90 per cent of India's 500 million-strong workforce are employed informally, living hand to mouth, day to to day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 26, 2021, 12:23:34 PM
Irresponsible article there, mentions the lockdown like nothing is working and it's a major unexplained crisis.

Makes no mention to Covid running wild being entirely their own fault for the sake of a religious festival.

You can't help people who don't want to be helped.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-millions-of-indians-travel-to-celebrate-maha-kumbh-mela-despite-rising-coronavirus-rates-12273435
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 26, 2021, 12:34:17 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 26, 2021, 12:23:34 PM
Irresponsible article there, mentions the lockdown like nothing is working and it's a major unexplained crisis.

Makes no mention to Covid running wild being entirely their own fault for the sake of a religious festival.

You can't help people who don't want to be helped.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-millions-of-indians-travel-to-celebrate-maha-kumbh-mela-despite-rising-coronavirus-rates-12273435

Correct.
Sarasswati Dattani, 56, has travelled over 400 miles (644km) from Rajasthan with her husband.

She tells Sky News: "Our children had tried to stop us because of coronavirus.
"I am not afraid, Mother Ganga is with us all the time.
"People are getting the virus sitting at home. We have to die once, it's all in God's hands."

This is a crisis entirely of their own making. Contrast this with my own Mother (and many others) who has barely left the house in over a year and that was only to go out for a short drive in the car.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 26, 2021, 01:48:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 26, 2021, 12:16:30 PM
Things are very bad in India. Mutant Covid versions will emerge and threaten the efficacy of vaccines. The pandemic isn't over by a long shot.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/indians-starve-as-covid-crisis-deepens/

Unable to keep up with the soaring number of deaths, mass cremations are taking place in parking lots and others are having to keep the bodies of their loved ones in their homes.
But beneath the headlines a wider hunger crisis is building, one that if left unchecked could start to engulf large parts of the country. Approximately 90 per cent of India's 500 million-strong workforce are employed informally, living hand to mouth, day to to day.

Get a bit of perspective please.. Smurphy, so the math for these ones  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 26, 2021, 03:15:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 26, 2021, 12:16:30 PM
Things are very bad in India. Mutant Covid versions will emerge and threaten the efficacy of vaccines. The pandemic isn't over by a long shot.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/indians-starve-as-covid-crisis-deepens/

Unable to keep up with the soaring number of deaths, mass cremations are taking place in parking lots and others are having to keep the bodies of their loved ones in their homes.
But beneath the headlines a wider hunger crisis is building, one that if left unchecked could start to engulf large parts of the country. Approximately 90 per cent of India's 500 million-strong workforce are employed informally, living hand to mouth, day to to day.

Try using a if when giving an opinion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 03:28:40 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 15, 2021, 07:58:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2021, 02:25:15 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2021, 11:50:43 AM
We need Sid and Angelo back. This thread has become one of discussion, fact and opinion.

Not what I signed up for.
think I stumbled on him on twitter @angeloOfTyrone if you miss him

A big fan of Ewan MacKenna.

And two of the 17 people he follows is Gript and John McGurk...I knew that's where he was getting half his "facts" and links from.

Sigh.

That Twitter account is one of Sid's many parody accounts and has nothing to do with me.

Can I also inform the forum that this weirdo Louther ended up signing up to another forum to stalk me after I was banned here.

That is not normal behaviour.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2021, 07:58:05 AM
That's wrong, Angelo said India had it sussed

No I didn't.

Not unusual to see you conflating things. Covid will spike and Covid will fizzle out periodically that's what happens with it. Once it's there it will spread and lockdowns don't seem to be at all effective in dealing with it. You look at this island, even after months of Lockdowns cases were still in the thousands.

It's certainly serious over there but it's no worse than the situation we had in the north at Christmas in terms of relative numbers, The daily case rate is 1 positive test in 4000 for India at present, that would be the equivalent of 475 positive tests in the north.

The notion that lockdowns work is completely false. How did lockdowns fare on this island?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on April 26, 2021, 03:50:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 03:28:40 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 15, 2021, 07:58:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2021, 02:25:15 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2021, 11:50:43 AM
We need Sid and Angelo back. This thread has become one of discussion, fact and opinion.

Not what I signed up for.
think I stumbled on him on twitter @angeloOfTyrone if you miss him

A big fan of Ewan MacKenna.

And two of the 17 people he follows is Gript and John McGurk...I knew that's where he was getting half his "facts" and links from.

Sigh.

That Twitter account is one of Sid's many parody accounts and has nothing to do with me.

Can I also inform the forum that this weirdo Louther ended up signing up to another forum to stalk me after I was banned here.

That is not normal behaviour.

Yeah right  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on April 26, 2021, 03:54:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 03:28:40 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 15, 2021, 07:58:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2021, 02:25:15 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2021, 11:50:43 AM
We need Sid and Angelo back. This thread has become one of discussion, fact and opinion.

Not what I signed up for.
think I stumbled on him on twitter @angeloOfTyrone if you miss him

A big fan of Ewan MacKenna.

And two of the 17 people he follows is Gript and John McGurk...I knew that's where he was getting half his "facts" and links from.

Sigh.

That Twitter account is one of Sid's many parody accounts and has nothing to do with me.

Can I also inform the forum that this weirdo Louther ended up signing up to another forum to stalk me after I was banned here.

That is not normal behaviour.

;D ;D ;D Don't flatter yourself wee man.

Only one parody account round here and that's you.

An out and out bluffer. It's better than the last excuse of the big Italian republican community round Tyrone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 03:55:52 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 26, 2021, 03:50:15 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 03:28:40 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 15, 2021, 07:58:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2021, 02:25:15 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2021, 11:50:43 AM
We need Sid and Angelo back. This thread has become one of discussion, fact and opinion.

Not what I signed up for.
think I stumbled on him on twitter @angeloOfTyrone if you miss him

A big fan of Ewan MacKenna.

And two of the 17 people he follows is Gript and John McGurk...I knew that's where he was getting half his "facts" and links from.

Sigh.

That Twitter account is one of Sid's many parody accounts and has nothing to do with me.

Can I also inform the forum that this weirdo Louther ended up signing up to another forum to stalk me after I was banned here.

That is not normal behaviour.

Yeah right  ;D

It is.

He has made up parody accounts of posters from the other forum we frequent. The Labane1917 account he set up on here was a poster on that forum.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 03:57:25 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 26, 2021, 03:54:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 03:28:40 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 15, 2021, 07:58:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2021, 02:25:15 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 14, 2021, 11:50:43 AM
We need Sid and Angelo back. This thread has become one of discussion, fact and opinion.

Not what I signed up for.
think I stumbled on him on twitter @angeloOfTyrone if you miss him

A big fan of Ewan MacKenna.

And two of the 17 people he follows is Gript and John McGurk...I knew that's where he was getting half his "facts" and links from.

Sigh.

That Twitter account is one of Sid's many parody accounts and has nothing to do with me.

Can I also inform the forum that this weirdo Louther ended up signing up to another forum to stalk me after I was banned here.

That is not normal behaviour.

;D ;D ;D Don't flatter yourself wee man.

Only one parody account round here and that's you.

An out and out bluffer. It's better than the last excuse of the big Italian republican community round Tyrone.

So you're saying you're not Freddie.

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/5/b/5bb9027a55041e16b0aebc48fd7c60b91fba73a0.png)

There's a bit of a want in you when you're taking to stalking lads across different internet forums.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on April 26, 2021, 04:01:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2021, 07:58:05 AM
That's wrong, Angelo said India had it sussed

No I didn't.

Not unusual to see you conflating things. Covid will spike and Covid will fizzle out periodically that's what happens with it. Once it's there it will spread and lockdowns don't seem to be at all effective in dealing with it. You look at this island, even after months of Lockdowns cases were still in the thousands.

It's certainly serious over there but it's no worse than the situation we had in the north at Christmas in terms of relative numbers, The daily case rate is 1 positive test in 4000 for India at present, that would be the equivalent of 475 positive tests in the north.

The notion that lockdowns work is completely false. How did lockdowns fare on this island?

Jesus, Mary, Joseph and that wee donkey.

This has to be one of the worst takes I've ever seen.

You'd India as some sort of scientific freak of nature that never had a lockdown. Once they lifted the restrictions they had in place to allow mass gatherings, return to schools, offices etc etc they've become the epicentre of a global crisis that's seeing nations from all over send aid and help their way.

Don't lockdowns don't work  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:02:09 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 26, 2021, 04:01:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2021, 07:58:05 AM
That's wrong, Angelo said India had it sussed

No I didn't.

Not unusual to see you conflating things. Covid will spike and Covid will fizzle out periodically that's what happens with it. Once it's there it will spread and lockdowns don't seem to be at all effective in dealing with it. You look at this island, even after months of Lockdowns cases were still in the thousands.

It's certainly serious over there but it's no worse than the situation we had in the north at Christmas in terms of relative numbers, The daily case rate is 1 positive test in 4000 for India at present, that would be the equivalent of 475 positive tests in the north.

The notion that lockdowns work is completely false. How did lockdowns fare on this island?

Jesus, Mary, Joseph and that wee donkey.

This has to be one of the worst takes I've ever seen.

You'd India as some sort of scientific freak of nature that never had a lockdown. Once they lifted the restrictions they had in place to allow mass gatherings, return to schools, offices etc etc they've become the epicentre of a global crisis that's seeing nations from all over send aid and help their way.

Don't lockdowns don't work  :o

Listen it's f**king creepy that you are stalking me across different internet forums - do me a favour and stay out of my way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on April 26, 2021, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:02:09 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 26, 2021, 04:01:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2021, 07:58:05 AM
That's wrong, Angelo said India had it sussed

No I didn't.

Not unusual to see you conflating things. Covid will spike and Covid will fizzle out periodically that's what happens with it. Once it's there it will spread and lockdowns don't seem to be at all effective in dealing with it. You look at this island, even after months of Lockdowns cases were still in the thousands.

It's certainly serious over there but it's no worse than the situation we had in the north at Christmas in terms of relative numbers, The daily case rate is 1 positive test in 4000 for India at present, that would be the equivalent of 475 positive tests in the north.

The notion that lockdowns work is completely false. How did lockdowns fare on this island?

Jesus, Mary, Joseph and that wee donkey.

This has to be one of the worst takes I've ever seen.

You'd India as some sort of scientific freak of nature that never had a lockdown. Once they lifted the restrictions they had in place to allow mass gatherings, return to schools, offices etc etc they've become the epicentre of a global crisis that's seeing nations from all over send aid and help their way.

Don't lockdowns don't work  :o

Listen it's f**king creepy that you are stalking me across different internet forums - do me a favour and stay out of my way.

Or you'll destroy me  ;D ;D ;D

Wee Man, when you've had to register on this forum several times and others by the looks of it and you still get multiple bans and are likely close to a final one, maybe it's you that is the problem.

We've seen your posts elsewhere and on here, no hiding for you and what you really like.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:06:52 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 26, 2021, 04:05:07 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:02:09 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 26, 2021, 04:01:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2021, 07:58:05 AM
That's wrong, Angelo said India had it sussed

No I didn't.

Not unusual to see you conflating things. Covid will spike and Covid will fizzle out periodically that's what happens with it. Once it's there it will spread and lockdowns don't seem to be at all effective in dealing with it. You look at this island, even after months of Lockdowns cases were still in the thousands.

It's certainly serious over there but it's no worse than the situation we had in the north at Christmas in terms of relative numbers, The daily case rate is 1 positive test in 4000 for India at present, that would be the equivalent of 475 positive tests in the north.

The notion that lockdowns work is completely false. How did lockdowns fare on this island?

Jesus, Mary, Joseph and that wee donkey.

This has to be one of the worst takes I've ever seen.

You'd India as some sort of scientific freak of nature that never had a lockdown. Once they lifted the restrictions they had in place to allow mass gatherings, return to schools, offices etc etc they've become the epicentre of a global crisis that's seeing nations from all over send aid and help their way.

Don't lockdowns don't work  :o

Listen it's f**king creepy that you are stalking me across different internet forums - do me a favour and stay out of my way.

Or you'll destroy me  ;D ;D ;D

Wee Man, when you've had to register on this forum several times and others by the looks of it and you still get multiple bans and are likely close to a final one, maybe it's you that is the problem.

We've seen your posts elsewhere and on here, no hiding for you and what you really like.

No I just happen to think it's the absolute height of creepy behaviour that you join up on sites to stalk a guy around the internet.

You're a wrong un.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on April 26, 2021, 04:08:37 PM
What are you even on about?

Maybe it was Sid set up a parody account to continue his arguments with you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:15:36 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 26, 2021, 04:08:37 PM
What are you even on about?

Maybe it was Sid set up a parody account to continue his arguments with you.

Ever since you joined this forum, you have been relentlessly stalking every contribution I make.

If we went through your posts on here, you'd find the vast majority of you posts are to do with me. You are obsessed and you do it unsolicited - right from the very start on the Celtic thread (which you have no interest in only me).

The fact that I get a ban on here and within a few days you are off over signing up on another site I post on is the absolute height of creepiness. I

The usual suspects will probably jump in here but I challenge anyone to do a brief search on Louhters posts on here and see what conclusion they come to.

Clearly I rattled something in you from the start but what you're engaging in is not normal behaviour, just stay out of my way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on April 26, 2021, 04:22:55 PM
Very simple fact from today.

I've no idea how long you back posting from your latest ban but I haven't engaged with you since and then you quote a post I made about when your "parody" twitter account was posted. I responded to that and then you reckon I was stalking you on some other forum.

I'm not the one obsessed.

I'd be more interested if you commented on the posts about your claims on India but you obviously don't want to as it showed up how wrong you have been.

What I can't understand and finds creepy, to use your own phrase, is that someone gets banned here, comes back with new name, gets banned again and again, but still wants to be here? And "chat" with people he has issues with and falls out with all the time. Now that is creepy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:32:40 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 26, 2021, 04:22:55 PM
Very simple fact from today.

I've no idea how long you back posting from your latest ban but I haven't engaged with you since and then you quote a post I made about when your "parody" twitter account was posted. I responded to that and then you reckon I was stalking you on some other forum.

I'm not the one obsessed.

I'd be more interested if you commented on the posts about your claims on India but you obviously don't want to as it showed up how wrong you have been.

What I can't understand and finds creepy, to use your own phrase, is that someone gets banned here, comes back with new name, gets banned again and again, but still wants to be here? And "chat" with people he has issues with and falls out with all the time. Now that is creepy.

I've told you to stay out of my way, you weird little man.

The last sentence can't spell out your issues any more clearer. You have became utterly obsessed with a poster off the internet. Have you Angelo scrawled out across every wall in your house?

Just park your obsession with me, there is plenty of threads and topics you can engage with on here rather than stalking me around from thread to thread on matters you have no interest in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 26, 2021, 04:35:47 PM
Here we go again with this shite. Every thread will be completely polluted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on April 26, 2021, 04:43:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 26, 2021, 04:35:47 PM
Here we go again with this shite. Every thread will be completely polluted.

+1
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:50:15 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 26, 2021, 04:43:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 26, 2021, 04:35:47 PM
Here we go again with this shite. Every thread will be completely polluted.

+1

I think Angelo has triggered a few posters. But then again racism and other forms of brain free gobshitery will trigger people. It stands to reason.

No matter what Angelo (or his aliases) post it's difficult to see past the racist nature of the author.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:51:13 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:50:15 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 26, 2021, 04:43:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 26, 2021, 04:35:47 PM
Here we go again with this shite. Every thread will be completely polluted.

+1

I think Angelo has triggered a few posters. But then again racism and other forms of brain free gobshitery will trigger people. It stands to reason.

No matter what Angelo (or his aliases post) it's difficult to se past the racist nature of the author.

What racism?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on April 26, 2021, 04:51:52 PM
I'll not be told who or where I can't post or respond to. It's a public forum and that's the very basis of the whole reasoning behind a discussion board. If you've a problem with me, stop quoting my posts or do that ignore thing that lot of people use. Particularly when false claims are posted at me.

I'll leave this at that and apology's to others.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:51:13 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:50:15 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 26, 2021, 04:43:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 26, 2021, 04:35:47 PM
Here we go again with this shite. Every thread will be completely polluted.

+1

I think Angelo has triggered a few posters. But then again racism and other forms of brain free gobshitery will trigger people. It stands to reason.

No matter what Angelo (or his aliases post) it's difficult to se past the racist nature of the author.

What racism?

Not much of a Jew fan are you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:56:12 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:51:13 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:50:15 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 26, 2021, 04:43:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 26, 2021, 04:35:47 PM
Here we go again with this shite. Every thread will be completely polluted.

+1

I think Angelo has triggered a few posters. But then again racism and other forms of brain free gobshitery will trigger people. It stands to reason.

No matter what Angelo (or his aliases post) it's difficult to se past the racist nature of the author.

What racism?

Not much of a Jew fan are you?

It's not my fault you fault you fail to understand satire.

Have you ever said something that wasn't politically correct yourself?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:58:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:56:12 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:51:13 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:50:15 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 26, 2021, 04:43:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 26, 2021, 04:35:47 PM
Here we go again with this shite. Every thread will be completely polluted.

+1

I think Angelo has triggered a few posters. But then again racism and other forms of brain free gobshitery will trigger people. It stands to reason.

No matter what Angelo (or his aliases post) it's difficult to se past the racist nature of the author.

What racism?

Not much of a Jew fan are you?

It's not my fault you fault you fail to understand satire.

Have you ever said something that wasn't politically correct yourself?

I thought satire died at Nuremberg
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 05:00:55 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:58:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:56:12 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:51:13 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:50:15 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 26, 2021, 04:43:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 26, 2021, 04:35:47 PM
Here we go again with this shite. Every thread will be completely polluted.

+1

I think Angelo has triggered a few posters. But then again racism and other forms of brain free gobshitery will trigger people. It stands to reason.

No matter what Angelo (or his aliases post) it's difficult to se past the racist nature of the author.

What racism?

Not much of a Jew fan are you?

It's not my fault you fault you fail to understand satire.

Have you ever said something that wasn't politically correct yourself?

I thought satire died at Nuremberg

You never answered my question. I wonder why that is.

Do you find this racist?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NtYfHW5wu8Q/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 26, 2021, 05:06:51 PM
This doesn't work as well when Sid isn't about.

Banned for good?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 05:17:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 05:00:55 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:58:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:56:12 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:51:13 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:50:15 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 26, 2021, 04:43:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 26, 2021, 04:35:47 PM
Here we go again with this shite. Every thread will be completely polluted.

+1

I think Angelo has triggered a few posters. But then again racism and other forms of brain free gobshitery will trigger people. It stands to reason.

No matter what Angelo (or his aliases post) it's difficult to se past the racist nature of the author.

What racism?

Not much of a Jew fan are you?

It's not my fault you fault you fail to understand satire.

Have you ever said something that wasn't politically correct yourself?

I thought satire died at Nuremberg

You never answered my question. I wonder why that is.

Do you find this racist?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NtYfHW5wu8Q/maxresdefault.jpg)

Sincerest apologies. I will now answer your questions.

The Fr Ted joke is not racist. It is a joke about racists. The Fr Ted character is racist.

I am unaware of any politically incorrect statements I have made. Are you aware of any?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 06:19:04 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 05:17:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 05:00:55 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:58:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:56:12 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:51:13 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:50:15 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 26, 2021, 04:43:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 26, 2021, 04:35:47 PM
Here we go again with this shite. Every thread will be completely polluted.

+1

I think Angelo has triggered a few posters. But then again racism and other forms of brain free gobshitery will trigger people. It stands to reason.

No matter what Angelo (or his aliases post) it's difficult to se past the racist nature of the author.

What racism?

Not much of a Jew fan are you?

It's not my fault you fault you fail to understand satire.

Have you ever said something that wasn't politically correct yourself?

I thought satire died at Nuremberg

You never answered my question. I wonder why that is.

Do you find this racist?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NtYfHW5wu8Q/maxresdefault.jpg)

Sincerest apologies. I will now answer your questions.

The Fr Ted joke is not racist. It is a joke about racists. The Fr Ted character is racist.

I am unaware of any politically incorrect statements I have made. Are you aware of any?

Bizarre double standards there if you deem the Fr Ted joke not racist.

You've never made a politically incorrect statement in your life? I'm sure you have, I'm sure everyone has.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 07:23:03 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 06:19:04 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 05:17:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 05:00:55 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:58:51 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:56:12 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:51:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:51:13 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 04:50:15 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 26, 2021, 04:43:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 26, 2021, 04:35:47 PM
Here we go again with this shite. Every thread will be completely polluted.

+1

I think Angelo has triggered a few posters. But then again racism and other forms of brain free gobshitery will trigger people. It stands to reason.

No matter what Angelo (or his aliases post) it's difficult to se past the racist nature of the author.

What racism?

Not much of a Jew fan are you?

It's not my fault you fault you fail to understand satire.

Have you ever said something that wasn't politically correct yourself?

I thought satire died at Nuremberg

You never answered my question. I wonder why that is.

Do you find this racist?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NtYfHW5wu8Q/maxresdefault.jpg)

Sincerest apologies. I will now answer your questions.

The Fr Ted joke is not racist. It is a joke about racists. The Fr Ted character is racist.

I am unaware of any politically incorrect statements I have made. Are you aware of any?

Bizarre double standards there if you deem the Fr Ted joke not racist.

You've never made a politically incorrect statement in your life? I'm sure you have, I'm sure everyone has.

No double standards here.

Alf Garnet, Al Murray Pub Landlord and Fr Ted are racist characters. The first 2 characters are defined by their racism. The comedy shows in which they appear are not racist. The joke is on the racist. That is not difficult to understand but please point the bit that you fail to understand?

As for my political incorrectness point to evidence. Your evidence of something existing seems to be based upon a belief that it must exist. If you bring that attitude to discussion groups I'm rather afraid that you will make the dreadful arse of yourself
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 26, 2021, 07:28:55 PM
If this is getting it right, I'm glad we got it so wrong!

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/4/26/india-sets-new-covid-world-record-for-5th-straight-day-live-news
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on April 26, 2021, 08:18:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 26, 2021, 07:28:55 PM
If this is getting it right, I'm glad we got it so wrong!

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/4/26/india-sets-new-covid-world-record-for-5th-straight-day-live-news
Ah now, sure didn't our resident expert assure us that: "It's certainly serious over [in India] but it's no worse than the situation we had in the north at Christmas in terms of relative numbers"  ::)

Meanwhile the above article, incl the WHO comment, is based on the official government figures for cases and deaths etc.

But recent investigations suggest that the actual death rate is higher than being recorded eg
"Bodies piling up at crematoriums and burial grounds across India are sparking concerns that the death toll from a ferocious new Covid-19 wave may be much higher than official records, underplaying the scale of a resurgence that is overwhelming the country's medical system.
Several cities across the South Asian nation have reported shocking details of bodies, wrapped in protective gear and identified by hospitals as virus-related deaths, lined up outside crematoriums for hours. Accounts collated by Bloomberg from relatives of the dead and workers and eyewitnesses at crematoriums in at least five cities indicate that the real number of Covid fatalities could be significantly higher than the deaths being reported by local government health departments."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-22/even-record-death-toll-may-hide-extent-of-india-s-covid-crisis (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-22/even-record-death-toll-may-hide-extent-of-india-s-covid-crisis)

And that relates to cities. The majority of India's 1.4bn population live in rural areas, where many people are dying in their homes without any access to a doctor never mind a hospital, and them being cremated without ever featuring in the official Covid figures.

Still, the Indian government has a strategy to deal with this crisis:
"As India reels from a massive surge in cases of COVID-19 that's crippling the nation, Twitter has agreed to block tweets in the nation critical of the government's handing of the pandemic, BuzzFeed reported Saturday.
The government on Thursday ordered Twitter to block 52 critical tweets, and Twitter complied, according to BuzzFeed. Blocked posts reportedly included those from a state minister, an opposition member of the Indian Parliament, filmmakers, an actor, two journalists and other citizens."
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/india-twitter-covid-surge-cremations_n_6084cfa3e4b02e74d21a6ef2?ri18n=true (https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/india-twitter-covid-surge-cremations_n_6084cfa3e4b02e74d21a6ef2?ri18n=true)

That should help allright.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 26, 2021, 08:48:38 PM
Hope the "let it rip" crowd are paying attention to what happens when O2 supplies run short.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on April 26, 2021, 09:16:52 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 26, 2021, 12:23:34 PM
Irresponsible article there, mentions the lockdown like nothing is working and it's a major unexplained crisis.

Makes no mention to Covid running wild being entirely their own fault for the sake of a religious festival.

You can't help people who don't want to be helped.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-millions-of-indians-travel-to-celebrate-maha-kumbh-mela-despite-rising-coronavirus-rates-12273435

Whatever the country journalists especially in tabloid newspapers are falling over themselves to blame any surge on a more dangerous and deadly variant. The India situation is mostly to do with their super spreader event.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 26, 2021, 10:32:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:32:40 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 26, 2021, 04:22:55 PM
Very simple fact from today.

I've no idea how long you back posting from your latest ban but I haven't engaged with you since and then you quote a post I made about when your "parody" twitter account was posted. I responded to that and then you reckon I was stalking you on some other forum.

I'm not the one obsessed.

I'd be more interested if you commented on the posts about your claims on India but you obviously don't want to as it showed up how wrong you have been.

What I can't understand and finds creepy, to use your own phrase, is that someone gets banned here, comes back with new name, gets banned again and again, but still wants to be here? And "chat" with people he has issues with and falls out with all the time. Now that is creepy.

I've told you to stay out of my way, you weird little man.

The last sentence can't spell out your issues any more clearer. You have became utterly obsessed with a poster off the internet. Have you Angelo scrawled out across every wall in your house?

Just park your obsession with me, there is plenty of threads and topics you can engage with on here rather than stalking me around from thread to thread on matters you have no interest in.
You're actually a decent poster when you don't get bogged down in petty shite like this- be smart and don't take the bait because this is getting tiresome.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 26, 2021, 10:46:00 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 26, 2021, 10:32:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 04:32:40 PM
Quote from: Louther on April 26, 2021, 04:22:55 PM
Very simple fact from today.

I've no idea how long you back posting from your latest ban but I haven't engaged with you since and then you quote a post I made about when your "parody" twitter account was posted. I responded to that and then you reckon I was stalking you on some other forum.

I'm not the one obsessed.

I'd be more interested if you commented on the posts about your claims on India but you obviously don't want to as it showed up how wrong you have been.

What I can't understand and finds creepy, to use your own phrase, is that someone gets banned here, comes back with new name, gets banned again and again, but still wants to be here? And "chat" with people he has issues with and falls out with all the time. Now that is creepy.

I've told you to stay out of my way, you weird little man.

The last sentence can't spell out your issues any more clearer. You have became utterly obsessed with a poster off the internet. Have you Angelo scrawled out across every wall in your house?

Just park your obsession with me, there is plenty of threads and topics you can engage with on here rather than stalking me around from thread to thread on matters you have no interest in.
You're actually a decent poster when you don't get bogged down in petty shite like this- be smart and don't take the bait because this is getting tiresome.

How many decent posters get multiple bans?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 27, 2021, 09:25:39 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 26, 2021, 07:28:55 PM
If this is getting it right, I'm glad we got it so wrong!

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/4/26/india-sets-new-covid-world-record-for-5th-straight-day-live-news

When you say we, who do you mean?

UK fucked up as well. Boris wanted the UK to take it on the chin, didn't care if the bodies were piled high and held off on the lockdowns and he's the highest death rate in all of Europe.

They fucked up test and trace and still are. The vaccine is their only saving grace and India helped produce quite a lot of them.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 27, 2021, 09:28:14 AM
Seems to be a lot of noise around Cummings and Boris at the minute. I am not sure where the furore about Boris saying he'd let the bodies pile up rather than have another lockdown came from but if he is recorded saying then ,even for him, I think he could be in trouble. As usual though it'll likely just be glossed over.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 27, 2021, 10:15:18 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on April 26, 2021, 09:16:52 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 26, 2021, 12:23:34 PM
Irresponsible article there, mentions the lockdown like nothing is working and it's a major unexplained crisis.

Makes no mention to Covid running wild being entirely their own fault for the sake of a religious festival.

You can't help people who don't want to be helped.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-millions-of-indians-travel-to-celebrate-maha-kumbh-mela-despite-rising-coronavirus-rates-12273435

Whatever the country journalists especially in tabloid newspapers are falling over themselves to blame any surge on a more dangerous and deadly variant. The India situation is mostly to do with their super spreader event.

India was always going to be ravaged, questionable hygiene, very questionable cultural habits (in the midst of something like this), vastly overpopulated cities bordering on saturation. Perfect environment for Covid to ravage.

I feel sorry for those who didn't attend the Religious events and tried to do what was right, of course I'm sure the right vastly outnumbered the wrong but I've absolutely no sympathy for the Indian Govt letting these mass religious events go ahead in the current world climate, absolutely crazy decision to let millions gather for the sake of Religion, I get that Religion is very important to people....but, seriously.

They'll pay the price now, there won't be a country lets in someone from India through their borders for the foreseeable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 27, 2021, 10:36:36 AM
Not to go into religion but my da is an example... if it was a choice between missing mass or put yourself in a position where you could catch covid but not miss mass he'd choose the latter every time. The biggest surprise for me is that he has been able to not go to mass during this though to be fair they do well with the drive through setup where I am from.

The bigger thing with the event is the people who put it on not the fact that people went to it. Especially in poorer countries religion is a big form of hope etc for people and it would be engrained in them to not miss these things.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2021, 10:47:23 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 27, 2021, 09:25:39 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 26, 2021, 07:28:55 PM
If this is getting it right, I'm glad we got it so wrong!

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/4/26/india-sets-new-covid-world-record-for-5th-straight-day-live-news

When you say we, who do you mean?

UK fucked up as well. Boris wanted the UK to take it on the chin, didn't care if the bodies were piled high and held off on the lockdowns and he's the highest death rate in all of Europe.

They fucked up test and trace and still are. The vaccine is their only saving grace and India helped produce quite a lot of them.

We as in getting the vaccine roll out right, everything else was a complete disaster for sure, but if he had have fucked that up then that government would have been binned, by all accounts on the polls (according to 5 live this morning) the tories are doing well, which does begger belief, but the English have a very short memory.

India have fucked up because their gods will save them and what will be will be said one lady on Channel 4 news last night, the government allowed these religious celebrations and by the very nature of the over populated cities the virus would rip right through it regardless of lockdowns.

On the news this morning on the way into work, even the Tory editor of their own paper is questioning Boris on the piling them high, which I firmly believe he said as that would be crass comment that he would come out with, whether he said it in a bluster type and actually not meaning it is up for debate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 27, 2021, 11:17:53 AM
Stamer is useless - that is why.

Boris doesn't care about anybody bar himself so nothing he could say would be much of a surprise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 11:47:39 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 27, 2021, 11:17:53 AM
Stamer is useless - that is why.

Boris doesn't care about anybody bar himself so nothing he could say would be much of a surprise.

What do you reckon Starmer should do or should have already done?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 27, 2021, 11:55:41 AM
He's not firm enough. He does bits and pieces holding Boris to account but not enough. This government is atrocious - if he was in any way doing a good job surely labour would be at least catching up with them in the polls?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on April 27, 2021, 01:19:55 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 27, 2021, 11:55:41 AM
He's not firm enough. He does bits and pieces holding Boris to account but not enough. This government is atrocious - if he was in any way doing a good job surely labour would be at least catching up with them in the polls?

Starmer and Labour were polling alright until Johnson pulled the vaccine out of his arse.

The enormous Tory majority means it's a long game, with lots of swinging and bouncing all the way to 2024.

There'll be plenty of ammo for the opposition once the fog begins to lift on Covid and Brexit. Probably better to pick their moments a bit closer to election time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on April 27, 2021, 01:57:22 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 27, 2021, 01:19:55 PM
The enormous Tory majority means it's a long game, with lots of swinging and bouncing all the way to 2024.
If the Tories should win in 2024, then by the time the next election is due (2029), there won't have been a Labour government for nearly two decades (i.e. since May 2010).

The real problem for them is not the usual "swing and bounce" etc, or even their current problems in their traditional North of England heartland.

Rather it is that they've lost Scotland (possibly forever?) and are struggling in Wales, both of which have always been critical to their forming a government in the past.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 27, 2021, 02:06:18 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 11:47:39 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 27, 2021, 11:17:53 AM
Stamer is useless - that is why.

Boris doesn't care about anybody bar himself so nothing he could say would be much of a surprise.

What do you reckon Starmer should do or should have already done?

He lets him away with his constant lying. Starmer is too nice and needs to put two feet into Boris at all opportunities.

He's even worse on Brexit.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 27, 2021, 02:07:32 PM
Starmer is just a Diet Tory. The British media will have no problem facilitating him when the Tories crumble.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 27, 2021, 02:10:54 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 27, 2021, 01:57:22 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 27, 2021, 01:19:55 PM
The enormous Tory majority means it's a long game, with lots of swinging and bouncing all the way to 2024.
If the Tories should win in 2024, then by the time the next election is due (2029), there won't have been a Labour government for nearly two decades (i.e. since May 2010).

The real problem for them is not the usual "swing and bounce" etc, or even their current problems in their traditional North of England heartland.

Rather it is that they've lost Scotland (possibly forever?) and are struggling in Wales, both of which have always been critical to their forming a government in the past.

Yeah the SNP have murdered them in scotland. Haven't followed that closely what has gone on in Wales.

There does appear to be a bit more of a squeeze happening with Johnson and his lies at the minute. I imagine it will fizzle out but at least there is something.

Stamer for me is what Angelo says. He's a bit Tony Blair esque and is arguably more Tory than Labour.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:13:57 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 27, 2021, 11:55:41 AM
He's not firm enough. He does bits and pieces holding Boris to account but not enough. This government is atrocious - if he was in any way doing a good job surely labour would be at least catching up with them in the polls?

Wishy washy stuff that. Anything specific that he should do?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:16:46 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 27, 2021, 02:06:18 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 11:47:39 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 27, 2021, 11:17:53 AM
Stamer is useless - that is why.

Boris doesn't care about anybody bar himself so nothing he could say would be much of a surprise.

What do you reckon Starmer should do or should have already done?

He lets him away with his constant lying. Starmer is too nice and needs to put two feet into Boris at all opportunities.

He's even worse on Brexit.

Labour's electoral fortunes hang on winning the pro Brexit north. What do you think he should do?

How exactly does he let Johnson away with lies? I agree Johnson is lying and up to this point anyway getting away with it. But is it Starmer that is letting him away with it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 27, 2021, 02:07:32 PM
Starmer is just a Diet Tory. The British media will have no problem facilitating him when the Tories crumble.

Explain?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:18:51 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 27, 2021, 02:10:54 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 27, 2021, 01:57:22 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on April 27, 2021, 01:19:55 PM
The enormous Tory majority means it's a long game, with lots of swinging and bouncing all the way to 2024.
If the Tories should win in 2024, then by the time the next election is due (2029), there won't have been a Labour government for nearly two decades (i.e. since May 2010).

The real problem for them is not the usual "swing and bounce" etc, or even their current problems in their traditional North of England heartland.

Rather it is that they've lost Scotland (possibly forever?) and are struggling in Wales, both of which have always been critical to their forming a government in the past.

Yeah the SNP have murdered them in scotland. Haven't followed that closely what has gone on in Wales.

There does appear to be a bit more of a squeeze happening with Johnson and his lies at the minute. I imagine it will fizzle out but at least there is something.

Stamer for me is what Angelo says. He's a bit Tony Blair esque and is arguably more Tory than Labour.

Big accusation that. Explain how he is more Tory than Labour?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 27, 2021, 02:20:46 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 27, 2021, 02:07:32 PM
Starmer is just a Diet Tory. The British media will have no problem facilitating him when the Tories crumble.

Explain?

You won't see the same media campaign against Starmer as you saw with Corbyn. His policies won't be that different to a Tory leader.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:33:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 27, 2021, 02:20:46 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 27, 2021, 02:07:32 PM
Starmer is just a Diet Tory. The British media will have no problem facilitating him when the Tories crumble.

Explain?

You won't see the same media campaign against Starmer as you saw with Corbyn. His policies won't be that different to a Tory leader.

So you evidence that Starmer is "Diet Tory" is the lack of a campaign against him by the right wing media and your assessment of what his policies will be in the future???

Are you absolutely sure that you are being fair here?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:37:44 PM
Is it possible that the absence of a media campaign on the skeletons in Starmer's cupboard is actually due to the absence of skeletons in his cupboard?

The media did try to invent a skeleton in Donkey-gate but he made short work of them on that one.

There will be parts of the media who know there isn't a story in the Jimmy Saville case but I reckon they will trot it out just before the next general election. By the time Starmer puts the record straight the damage will have been done.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on April 27, 2021, 04:49:13 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/joe-walsh-tours-cites-ireland-s-travel-restrictions-as-it-ceases-trading-1.4549005

Joe Walsh Tours, one of Ireland's oldest travel agents and tour operators, has ceased trading after 60 years, citing Ireland's travel protocols due to Covid-19 as "the most restrictive in Europe".

Joe Walsh Tours was established in 1961 and was family-owned. It was the largest fully Irish-owned tour operator providing group travel to pilgrimage destinations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 27, 2021, 08:40:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 27, 2021, 04:49:13 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/joe-walsh-tours-cites-ireland-s-travel-restrictions-as-it-ceases-trading-1.4549005

Joe Walsh Tours, one of Ireland's oldest travel agents and tour operators, has ceased trading after 60 years, citing Ireland's travel protocols due to Covid-19 as "the most restrictive in Europe".

Joe Walsh Tours was established in 1961 and was family-owned. It was the largest fully Irish-owned tour operator providing group travel to pilgrimage destinations.

Aye... because ferrying old people to religious festivals has worked out so well for India.

Some people cannot look beyond the end of their nose.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 08:55:40 PM
Would the outlook for pilgrimage tours have been great even before Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 27, 2021, 09:34:41 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 08:55:40 PM
Would the outlook for pilgrimage tours have been great even before Covid?

Long term?

Nope. They were catering to an autumnal generation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on April 27, 2021, 09:49:05 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 08:55:40 PM
Would the outlook for pilgrimage tours have been great even before Covid?
maybe covid pilgrimages could become a thing where masked people go to pray in front of statues of fauci or Scott gottlieb or dr birx or Sanjay Gupta
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 27, 2021, 11:02:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 26, 2021, 03:45:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 21, 2021, 07:58:05 AM
That's wrong, Angelo said India had it sussed

No I didn't.

Not unusual to see you conflating things. Covid will spike and Covid will fizzle out periodically that's what happens with it. Once it's there it will spread and lockdowns don't seem to be at all effective in dealing with it. You look at this island, even after months of Lockdowns cases were still in the thousands.

It's certainly serious over there but it's no worse than the situation we had in the north at Christmas in terms of relative numbers, The daily case rate is 1 positive test in 4000 for India at present, that would be the equivalent of 475 positive tests in the north.

The notion that lockdowns work is completely false. How did lockdowns fare on this island?

This hasn't faired well:

"I feel lockdowns are causing more harm than doing good. Countries who haven't had draconian lockdowns since the first wave last year like Sweden, South Africa and India haven't really fared much if any worse at all than countries who did impose draconian lockdowns"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 28, 2021, 09:03:39 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:33:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 27, 2021, 02:20:46 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 27, 2021, 02:07:32 PM
Starmer is just a Diet Tory. The British media will have no problem facilitating him when the Tories crumble.

Explain?

You won't see the same media campaign against Starmer as you saw with Corbyn. His policies won't be that different to a Tory leader.

So you evidence that Starmer is "Diet Tory" is the lack of a campaign against him by the right wing media and your assessment of what his policies will be in the future???

Are you absolutely sure that you are being fair here?

It's called an opinion.

Have you an opinion that say he isn't?

That's grand.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 28, 2021, 09:04:10 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:37:44 PM
Is it possible that the absence of a media campaign on the skeletons in Starmer's cupboard is actually due to the absence of skeletons in his cupboard?

The media did try to invent a skeleton in Donkey-gate but he made short work of them on that one.

There will be parts of the media who know there isn't a story in the Jimmy Saville case but I reckon they will trot it out just before the next general election. By the time Starmer puts the record straight the damage will have been done.

He's an unrepentant zionist, by his own admission.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on April 28, 2021, 09:35:40 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 28, 2021, 09:03:39 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:33:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 27, 2021, 02:20:46 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 27, 2021, 02:07:32 PM
Starmer is just a Diet Tory. The British media will have no problem facilitating him when the Tories crumble.

Explain?

You won't see the same media campaign against Starmer as you saw with Corbyn. His policies won't be that different to a Tory leader.

So you evidence that Starmer is "Diet Tory" is the lack of a campaign against him by the right wing media and your assessment of what his policies will be in the future???

Are you absolutely sure that you are being fair here?

It's called an opinion.

Have you an opinion that say he isn't?

That's grand.

If your opinions aren't based on any evidence you can think of then probably best not to advertise them. Makes you look a bit of thick
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 28, 2021, 09:38:12 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 28, 2021, 09:35:40 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 28, 2021, 09:03:39 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:33:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 27, 2021, 02:20:46 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 27, 2021, 02:07:32 PM
Starmer is just a Diet Tory. The British media will have no problem facilitating him when the Tories crumble.

Explain?

You won't see the same media campaign against Starmer as you saw with Corbyn. His policies won't be that different to a Tory leader.

So you evidence that Starmer is "Diet Tory" is the lack of a campaign against him by the right wing media and your assessment of what his policies will be in the future???

Are you absolutely sure that you are being fair here?

It's called an opinion.

Have you an opinion that say he isn't?

That's grand.

If your opinions aren't based on any evidence you can think of then probably best not to advertise them. Makes you look a bit of thick

Facts are based on evidence.

Opinions are based on thoughts and views. Strange you didn't know that.

You're making yourself look like someone who is letting embittered emotion cloud any intelligent thought here.

Carrying on embarrassing yourself with inane and contrary contributions though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on April 28, 2021, 09:42:06 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 28, 2021, 09:04:10 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:37:44 PM
Is it possible that the absence of a media campaign on the skeletons in Starmer's cupboard is actually due to the absence of skeletons in his cupboard?

The media did try to invent a skeleton in Donkey-gate but he made short work of them on that one.

There will be parts of the media who know there isn't a story in the Jimmy Saville case but I reckon they will trot it out just before the next general election. By the time Starmer puts the record straight the damage will have been done.

He's an unrepentant zionist, by his own admission.

Be careful not to cross the line into that racism that you are partial to?

What is the is the difference between Starmer's view on the existence of the state of Israel and that of say the late Tony Benn? What is the difference between their views on the expansion of the state of Israel?

Was Tony Benn an "unrepentant Zionist"

But anyway the point was the absence of a media campaign against Starmer. Surely you accept that there has been an attempt at it and it failed and there is a lack of material to mount a further one?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on April 28, 2021, 09:46:19 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 28, 2021, 09:38:12 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 28, 2021, 09:35:40 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 28, 2021, 09:03:39 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:33:36 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 27, 2021, 02:20:46 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:17:42 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 27, 2021, 02:07:32 PM
Starmer is just a Diet Tory. The British media will have no problem facilitating him when the Tories crumble.

Explain?

You won't see the same media campaign against Starmer as you saw with Corbyn. His policies won't be that different to a Tory leader.

So you evidence that Starmer is "Diet Tory" is the lack of a campaign against him by the right wing media and your assessment of what his policies will be in the future???

Are you absolutely sure that you are being fair here?

It's called an opinion.

Have you an opinion that say he isn't?

That's grand.

If your opinions aren't based on any evidence you can think of then probably best not to advertise them. Makes you look a bit of thick

Facts are based on evidence.

Opinions are based on thoughts and views. Strange you didn't know that.

You're making yourself look like someone who is letting embittered emotion cloud any intelligent thought here.

Carrying on embarrassing yourself with inane and contrary contributions though.

I wonder how long the mods will tolerate this sad little creature and his ongoing attempt to wreck discussion?

I will stick to facts when forming my opinions.

In your world a foreman of the jury will tell the judge that whilst the facts say the defendant is guilty that the Jury have formed opinions, independent of fact that find the defendant guilty. You are the Trump legacy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 28, 2021, 09:49:23 AM
Angelo catches another one.

You lads never learn  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 28, 2021, 09:51:48 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 28, 2021, 09:42:06 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 28, 2021, 09:04:10 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:37:44 PM
Is it possible that the absence of a media campaign on the skeletons in Starmer's cupboard is actually due to the absence of skeletons in his cupboard?

The media did try to invent a skeleton in Donkey-gate but he made short work of them on that one.

There will be parts of the media who know there isn't a story in the Jimmy Saville case but I reckon they will trot it out just before the next general election. By the time Starmer puts the record straight the damage will have been done.

He's an unrepentant zionist, by his own admission.

Be careful not to cross the line into that racism that you are partial to?

What is the is the difference between Starmer's view on the existence of the state of Israel and that of say the late Tony Benn? What is the difference between their views on the expansion of the state of Israel?

Was Tony Benn an "unrepentant Zionist"

But anyway the point was the absence of a media campaign against Starmer. Surely you accept that there has been an attempt at it and it failed and there is a lack of material to mount a further one?

I think you tried the racism card and showed yourself up as a preening hypocrite.

No. I think Starmer is very much a Diet Tory, from the Tony Blair school of Labour and the extremely racist, right wing British media don't find him objectionable like they did Jeremy Corbyn.

Corbyn didn't have skeletons in his closet but it did not stop the British media running an utterly relentless campaign against him.

We'll just take it that you're an unrepentant zionist too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on April 28, 2021, 09:57:40 AM
If anybody has anything sensible to say on this thread I'll happily pick it up from there?

Or we can watch this forum disappear down the sinkhole
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on April 28, 2021, 10:01:05 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 28, 2021, 09:57:40 AM
If anybody has anything sensible to say on this thread I'll happily pick it up from there?

Or we can watch this forum disappear down the sinkhole

You're the guy who seems to be confused as to what an opinion is and then arrogant enough to confirm that misconception.

Run along now after you lost the argument.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on April 28, 2021, 10:17:59 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:16:46 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 27, 2021, 02:06:18 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 11:47:39 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 27, 2021, 11:17:53 AM
Stamer is useless - that is why.

Boris doesn't care about anybody bar himself so nothing he could say would be much of a surprise.

What do you reckon Starmer should do or should have already done?

He lets him away with his constant lying. Starmer is too nice and needs to put two feet into Boris at all opportunities.

He's even worse on Brexit.

Labour's electoral fortunes hang on winning the pro Brexit north. What do you think he should do?

How exactly does he let Johnson away with lies? I agree Johnson is lying and up to this point anyway getting away with it. But is it Starmer that is letting him away with it?

To win the Brexit North, he firstly has to admit that Brexit is here and that's that, but he can offer to renegotiate the terrible deal that's killing the fishing industry and lots of other industries like the automotive, so on an so forth. The reality of the hard Brexit Boris got will bite harder in the coming months and years once fulough is done away with and the Torys wrongly introduce austerity to pay for the huge money they've siphoned off to their chums under the Covid 19 response guise.

I'd watch the odd PM's questions and Starmer has Boris by the balls more times than enough, Boris comes back with a load of gibberish and bravado but Starmer is inclined to move onto the next point. He should keep insisting that Boris actually answers a question and make the speaker intervene.
The press up to now have given Boris a free ride although the Mail seems to have turned on him. Must be to get their man Gove in now!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on April 28, 2021, 03:48:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 28, 2021, 09:04:10 AM
[Starmer is] an unrepentant zionist, by his own admission.
"If the definition of 'Zionist' is someone who believes in the state of Israel, in that sense I'm a Zionist." - Keir Starmer

Starmer is [also] a member of Labour Friends of Palestine & the Middle East, a parliamentary group that promotes support for the Palestinians and campaigns for "peace and justice in the Middle East through the implementation of international law and respect for human rights."

Though quite what this all has to do with Covid escapes me. On which point, any further comment on your previously expressed opinion masquerading as fact*?
"It's certainly serious over there [in India]  but it's no worse than the situation we had in the north at Christmas in terms of relative numbers"

(You might like to read this before replying: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-56890174 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-56890174))



* - Or do I mean "fact masquerading as opinion"?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smelmoth on April 28, 2021, 04:29:51 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 28, 2021, 03:48:26 PM
Quote from: Angelo on April 28, 2021, 09:04:10 AM
[Starmer is] an unrepentant zionist, by his own admission.
"If the definition of 'Zionist' is someone who believes in the state of Israel, in that sense I'm a Zionist." - Keir Starmer

Starmer is [also] a member of Labour Friends of Palestine & the Middle East, a parliamentary group that promotes support for the Palestinians and campaigns for "peace and justice in the Middle East through the implementation of international law and respect for human rights."

Though quite what this all has to do with Covid escapes me. On which point, any further comment on your previously expressed opinion masquerading as fact*?
"It's certainly serious over there [in India]  but it's no worse than the situation we had in the north at Christmas in terms of relative numbers"

(You might like to read this before replying: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-56890174 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-56890174))



* - Or do I mean "fact masquerading as opinion"?

Just a note to say I enjoyed reading that.

Carry on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 29, 2021, 10:59:32 AM
What do these clowns think they are at. Outdoor visits to households from 10th of May! Do they seriously think this isn't happening already for 99% of people? Be plenty of Donegal/Louth ones in Derry and Newry etc this weekend.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 29, 2021, 11:08:20 AM
99% of people break speed limits.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 29, 2021, 11:28:29 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 29, 2021, 10:59:32 AM
What do these clowns think they are at. Outdoor visits to households from 10th of May! Do they seriously think this isn't happening already for 99% of people? Be plenty of Donegal/Louth ones in Derry and Newry etc this weekend.

I'd imagine the Gardai will be notable missing patrolling their jurisdiction to those leaving this weekend.

They were right and good at stopping people enter not so long ago.

Time flies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on April 29, 2021, 11:28:49 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 29, 2021, 10:59:32 AM
What do these clowns think they are at. Outdoor visits to households from 10th of May! Do they seriously think this isn't happening already for 99% of people? Be plenty of Donegal/Louth ones in Derry and Newry etc this weekend.

I am sure there are aware that lot of people are doing as they need to do or want to do. But they also is people sticking largely to the rules. They are laying out what the advice is step by step and hope it keeps reasonable people movement in place.

They hardly going to go from A to Z that quick and laugh that they know people aren't people aren't 100% onboard.

Their advice is measured. People following it are been measured in their own application. What they don't want is a free for all again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 30, 2021, 11:00:39 AM
Lot of silly people up North  ::)

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0430/1212957-ni-covid-19/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 30, 2021, 11:02:41 AM
Ah your good old nordie bashing again. It'd never happen anywhere else that kind of thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2021, 11:07:08 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 30, 2021, 11:02:41 AM
Ah your good old nordie bashing again. It'd never happen anywhere else that kind of thing.

I'll take a pic at Newry later on and post it in here, 7 of 10 cars will be South Reg.

But sure that will be grand.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rich Ricci on April 30, 2021, 11:11:48 AM
All the clowns whinging about spreading COVID need to take a week off but honestly I don't understand how anybody could be bothered to stand in a queue that length just to get some knickers and socks. One look at it and you would be turning straight around.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on April 30, 2021, 11:24:36 AM
Must have nothing better to be at. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 30, 2021, 11:41:52 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 30, 2021, 11:02:41 AM
Ah your good old nordie bashing again. It'd never happen anywhere else that kind of thing.
Ah the good oul chip on the shoulder syndrome again ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2021, 12:09:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 30, 2021, 11:41:52 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 30, 2021, 11:02:41 AM
Ah your good old nordie bashing again. It'd never happen anywhere else that kind of thing.
Ah the good oul chip on the shoulder syndrome again ;D

I miss your figures on covid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on April 30, 2021, 12:22:31 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on April 30, 2021, 11:24:36 AM
Must have nothing better to be at.


exactly, if people have nothing else to do and decide they want to stand in a queue then thats up to them I dont really think its something to get annoyed about. Equally, id say there's a lot of people in that queue who need new clothes for kids who are growing and possibly need lighter summer clothes and maybe dont have the luxury to be able to buy more expensive stuff online. I know my wee boy is going through clothes at a crazy rate at the minute and its hard to keep up, if families need to go and get reasonably priced clothes and are prepared to queue for ages then fair play to them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2021, 12:28:25 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on April 30, 2021, 12:22:31 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on April 30, 2021, 11:24:36 AM
Must have nothing better to be at.


exactly, if people have nothing else to do and decide they want to stand in a queue then thats up to them I dont really think its something to get annoyed about. Equally, id say there's a lot of people in that queue who need new clothes for kids who are growing and possibly need lighter summer clothes and maybe dont have the luxury to be able to buy more expensive stuff online. I know my wee boy is going through clothes at a crazy rate at the minute and its hard to keep up, if families need to go and get reasonably priced clothes and are prepared to queue for ages then fair play to them.

Apparently Primark was open at 5 this morning in Belfast! In fairness today the weather is good and the town looks like its lived in now!

Hopefully it will bring back more and more business's that closed or stalled during the last period of lockdown.

I'm moving out of it soon, will miss the handiness of the town for work and the bars just when they are opening again!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on April 30, 2021, 12:32:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 30, 2021, 11:00:39 AM
Lot of silly people up North  ::)

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0430/1212957-ni-covid-19/
Yeah none of those people have travelled up from the South... and there definitely won't be the same scenes from Dundalk to Cork if Tweedledum and Tweedledee ever let shops open again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on April 30, 2021, 12:35:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2021, 12:28:25 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on April 30, 2021, 12:22:31 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on April 30, 2021, 11:24:36 AM
Must have nothing better to be at.


exactly, if people have nothing else to do and decide they want to stand in a queue then thats up to them I dont really think its something to get annoyed about. Equally, id say there's a lot of people in that queue who need new clothes for kids who are growing and possibly need lighter summer clothes and maybe dont have the luxury to be able to buy more expensive stuff online. I know my wee boy is going through clothes at a crazy rate at the minute and its hard to keep up, if families need to go and get reasonably priced clothes and are prepared to queue for ages then fair play to them.

Apparently Primark was open at 5 this morning in Belfast! In fairness today the weather is good and the town looks like its lived in now!

Hopefully it will bring back more and more business's that closed or stalled during the last period of lockdown.

I'm moving out of it soon, will miss the handiness of the town for work and the bars just when they are opening again!

Yeah, thats a day you could get side tracked into one of the beer gardens walking past alright! great to see bit of life about the place again!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on April 30, 2021, 12:39:16 PM
Those scenes will be repeated down here on 17th May, an absolute banker.

What's is good is that there is queues and shows that stores are managing the situation and you hope they continue to do so. Will take a few weeks for it to settle.

Good to see people and hope they all respectful of each other and these past lockdowns are behind us.

ROI opening on 17th might help ease the rush North for some.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on April 30, 2021, 12:41:00 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on April 30, 2021, 12:22:31 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on April 30, 2021, 11:24:36 AM
Must have nothing better to be at.


exactly, if people have nothing else to do and decide they want to stand in a queue then thats up to them I dont really think its something to get annoyed about. Equally, id say there's a lot of people in that queue who need new clothes for kids who are growing and possibly need lighter summer clothes and maybe dont have the luxury to be able to buy more expensive stuff online. I know my wee boy is going through clothes at a crazy rate at the minute and its hard to keep up, if families need to go and get reasonably priced clothes and are prepared to queue for ages then fair play to them.

+1, not everyone can or can be bothered shopping on line. Can't understand why Tesco can't sell socks jocks etc, but other supermarkets can. The likes of penneys should never have had to shut in the first place, provided they were meeting the same criteria as food supermarkets in terms of covid protocols.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on April 30, 2021, 12:46:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 30, 2021, 11:41:52 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 30, 2021, 11:02:41 AM
Ah your good old nordie bashing again. It'd never happen anywhere else that kind of thing.
Ah the good oul chip on the shoulder syndrome again ;D

You're mustard for it. Nothing to do with chips on shoulder :D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on April 30, 2021, 12:46:25 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on April 30, 2021, 11:24:36 AM
Must have nothing better to be at.

You can be guaranteed them queues are full of people from Lurgan.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2021, 01:17:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2021, 12:09:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 30, 2021, 11:41:52 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 30, 2021, 11:02:41 AM
Ah your good old nordie bashing again. It'd never happen anywhere else that kind of thing.
Ah the good oul chip on the shoulder syndrome again ;D

I miss your figures on covid

Remember the old ones....'if we had those figures nothing would be open....'.

Time flies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on April 30, 2021, 02:05:34 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2021, 01:17:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2021, 12:09:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 30, 2021, 11:41:52 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 30, 2021, 11:02:41 AM
Ah your good old nordie bashing again. It'd never happen anywhere else that kind of thing.
Ah the good oul chip on the shoulder syndrome again ;D

I miss your figures on covid

Remember the old ones....'if we had those figures nothing would be open....'.

Time flies.
Or the auld " the north has x number of cases. That's the equivalent of y in the south". Bit selective on when he posted those sort of posts tho!!  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on April 30, 2021, 02:52:23 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 30, 2021, 12:46:25 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on April 30, 2021, 11:24:36 AM
Must have nothing better to be at.

You can be guaranteed them queues are full of people from Lurgan.

When is Rushmere gonna get a Primark and ease our travel issues  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on April 30, 2021, 05:56:49 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on April 30, 2021, 02:52:23 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 30, 2021, 12:46:25 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on April 30, 2021, 11:24:36 AM
Must have nothing better to be at.

You can be guaranteed them queues are full of people from Lurgan.

When is Rushmere gonna get a Primark and ease our travel issues  ;D

I hate when people use that bloody English name. It will always be Craigavon Shopping Centre to me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on April 30, 2021, 05:59:14 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2021, 01:17:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2021, 12:09:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 30, 2021, 11:41:52 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 30, 2021, 11:02:41 AM
Ah your good old nordie bashing again. It'd never happen anywhere else that kind of thing.
Ah the good oul chip on the shoulder syndrome again ;D

I miss your figures on covid

Remember the old ones....'if we had those figures nothing would be open....'.


We got them and we closed up ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2021, 06:25:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 30, 2021, 05:59:14 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 30, 2021, 01:17:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2021, 12:09:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 30, 2021, 11:41:52 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 30, 2021, 11:02:41 AM
Ah your good old nordie bashing again. It'd never happen anywhere else that kind of thing.
Ah the good oul chip on the shoulder syndrome again ;D

I miss your figures on covid

Remember the old ones....'if we had those figures nothing would be open....'.


We got them and we closed up ;)

Aye you got the numbers alright and it made you look like a tit!

Can you give me the vaccine numbers too ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: charlieTully on April 30, 2021, 07:15:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2021, 12:28:25 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on April 30, 2021, 12:22:31 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on April 30, 2021, 11:24:36 AM
Must have nothing better to be at.


exactly, if people have nothing else to do and decide they want to stand in a queue then thats up to them I dont really think its something to get annoyed about. Equally, id say there's a lot of people in that queue who need new clothes for kids who are growing and possibly need lighter summer clothes and maybe dont have the luxury to be able to buy more expensive stuff online. I know my wee boy is going through clothes at a crazy rate at the minute and its hard to keep up, if families need to go and get reasonably priced clothes and are prepared to queue for ages then fair play to them.

Apparently Primark was open at 5 this morning in Belfast! In fairness today the weather is good and the town looks like its lived in now!

Hopefully it will bring back more and more business's that closed or stalled during the last period of lockdown.

I'm moving out of it soon, will miss the handiness of the town for work and the bars just when they are opening again!

Not county down I hope.  :)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2021, 09:33:15 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on April 30, 2021, 07:15:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 30, 2021, 12:28:25 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on April 30, 2021, 12:22:31 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on April 30, 2021, 11:24:36 AM
Must have nothing better to be at.


exactly, if people have nothing else to do and decide they want to stand in a queue then thats up to them I dont really think its something to get annoyed about. Equally, id say there's a lot of people in that queue who need new clothes for kids who are growing and possibly need lighter summer clothes and maybe dont have the luxury to be able to buy more expensive stuff online. I know my wee boy is going through clothes at a crazy rate at the minute and its hard to keep up, if families need to go and get reasonably priced clothes and are prepared to queue for ages then fair play to them.

Apparently Primark was open at 5 this morning in Belfast! In fairness today the weather is good and the town looks like its lived in now!

Hopefully it will bring back more and more business's that closed or stalled during the last period of lockdown.

I'm moving out of it soon, will miss the handiness of the town for work and the bars just when they are opening again!

Not county down I hope.  :)

Yes, one County Down town ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on April 30, 2021, 10:41:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 30, 2021, 12:46:25 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on April 30, 2021, 11:24:36 AM
Must have nothing better to be at.

You can be guaranteed them queues are full of people from Lurgan.

Not people, wimmin.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 01, 2021, 08:11:38 AM
All sports have returned 3 weeks and case numbers have dropped further

How do you explain that one Milly boy?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on May 01, 2021, 08:19:25 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 01, 2021, 08:11:38 AM
All sports have returned 3 weeks and case numbers have dropped further

How do you explain that one Milly boy?

It's outdoor sports that have returned. A study recently showed that around 0.1% of transmission has taken place outdoors. I've told you that before so it's quite easy to understand. The virus will spread indoors especially if there's poor ventilation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 01, 2021, 08:54:49 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 01, 2021, 08:11:38 AM
All sports have returned 3 weeks and case numbers have dropped further

How do you explain that one Milly boy?

Cause it's just flu and it's seasonal?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 01, 2021, 09:09:02 AM
So locking down all outdoors sports and outdoor dining was a complete waste this past 14 months?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 01, 2021, 09:17:40 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 01, 2021, 09:09:02 AM
So locking down all outdoors sports and outdoor dining was a complete waste this past 14 months?

Completely, we should have just followed the India's approach
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 01, 2021, 09:31:36 AM
Stop scaremongering Milly

Was it a complete waste stopping all outdoor activities?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 01, 2021, 09:38:13 AM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 01, 2021, 09:31:36 AM
Stop scaremongering Milly

Was it a complete waste stopping all outdoor activities?

Completely we shoulda been out, I was out every day running walking exercising, not in cages like some twats were saying.

If you care to look back I don't like lockdowns, but you keep waffling on that it's seasonal and flu
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on May 01, 2021, 01:17:46 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/alan-shatter-i-was-effectively-cancelled-completely-1.4551286?mode=amp

"I find some of the dreadful mistakes that the Irish Government has made extraordinarily depressing and upsetting," he says, putting the relaxation of public health measures for a "meaningful Christmas" at the top of his list.

"To almost encourage families to get together over Christmas was insane. That was an appalling misjudgment for which there is no excuse. The huge escalation in infections and the increase in deaths is directly attributable to that."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 01, 2021, 02:15:16 PM
Donegal may be kept locked down as Donnelly and C.M.O to meet Donegal politicians due to concerns over high level of infection there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 01, 2021, 02:51:47 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 01, 2021, 02:15:16 PM
Donegal may be kept locked down as Donnelly and C.M.O to meet Donegal politicians due to concerns over high level of infection there.

May lockdown the border over there and help out the vaccine roll out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: skeog on May 01, 2021, 10:57:15 PM
A lockin was held in Fintona  last night according to reports.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 01, 2021, 11:42:52 PM
Quote from: skeog on May 01, 2021, 10:57:15 PM
A lockin was held in Fintona  last night according to reports.
Seen that earlier. Load of weans it seems and some 17 year old arrested for knocking out a peeler. Owners will be fucked over.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 02, 2021, 04:33:45 PM
ROI weekly update.

Cases 3224 ( 89 more than last week, not bad when from roughly 9,000 extra tests carried out)

Reported deaths 36 (7 fewer than last week)

In hospital 127 (47 fewer than a week ago)
In ICU 41 (4 fewer than last Sunday)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 03, 2021, 11:29:45 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56969810 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56969810)

No real surprise. Donegal has a long history of non compliance and a lot of the people have below average intelligence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 03, 2021, 11:59:23 AM
"I think the border does have an effect here. I think that the good effect of Donegal people is at times diluted when there is a high incidence say in Derry," Dr McCauley said.

"Then when the behaviour of people in Donegal is not as good as it should be, it is exaggerated when there is relative outbreak in Derry".

What in under jesus is he blabbering on about there?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2021, 12:08:43 PM
So it's the Derry ones?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on May 03, 2021, 12:26:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2021, 12:08:43 PM
So it's the Derry ones wans?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2021, 12:29:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 03, 2021, 12:26:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 03, 2021, 12:08:43 PM
So it's the Derry ones wans?

👍
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 03, 2021, 12:56:06 PM
Shocking allegations, them Donegalians stopped wearing masks a long time ago
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 03, 2021, 01:04:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 03, 2021, 11:29:45 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56969810 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56969810)

No real surprise. Donegal has a long history of non compliance and a lot of the people have below average intelligence.

Jesus 😂😂
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 03, 2021, 02:07:52 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/derry-girls-are-right-about-usprotestants-i-do-keep-my-toaster-in-the-press-heather-humphreys-40380260.html
;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: fearbrags on May 04, 2021, 04:41:48 AM
https://twitter.com/dubslife1/status/1388957881194717186
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on May 04, 2021, 11:53:31 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on May 04, 2021, 04:41:48 AM
https://twitter.com/dubslife1/status/1388957881194717186

Doesn't look good at all, must be more of a back story. Na Gardai involved here look clueless, sort of lads who failed all their exams & had an uncle in the guards & got in to Templemore. Telling your man to get his solicitor to phone Tulsa to find out where his kids are, guards chasing the young fella around the garden for 15 minutes. Didn't appear to be much wrong with the man in question. Why were so many known far right lads involved in assisting the arrested man? Has to be some sort of back story to justify the guards actions. If not it looks like classic abuse of power.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on May 04, 2021, 11:55:57 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on May 03, 2021, 12:56:06 PM
Shocking allegations, them Donegalians stopped wearing masks a long time ago

Which the daft article in the Donegal paper or your statement that Donegal people have stopped wearing masks?

I see 99.5% compliance in that regard.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 04, 2021, 12:09:46 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on May 03, 2021, 08:51:48 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 01, 2021, 11:42:52 PM
Quote from: skeog on May 01, 2021, 10:57:15 PM
A lockin was held in Fintona  last night according to reports.
Seen that earlier. Load of weans it seems and some 17 year old arrested for knocking out a peeler. Owners will be fucked over.

Outsiders shitting on Fintona's rep yet again. Barely anyone from the village among the "patrons" involved.  >:(

If your a policeman and you got KO'd by a 17 year old there is more questions to be asked than which village they were from.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on May 04, 2021, 01:55:01 PM
Quote from: Rudi on May 04, 2021, 11:53:31 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on May 04, 2021, 04:41:48 AM
https://twitter.com/dubslife1/status/1388957881194717186

Doesn't look good at all, must be more of a back story. Na Gardai involved here look clueless, sort of lads who failed all their exams & had an uncle in the guards & got in to Templemore. Telling your man to get his solicitor to phone Tulsa to find out where his kids are, guards chasing the young fella around the garden for 15 minutes. Didn't appear to be much wrong with the man in question. Why were so many known far right lads involved in assisting the arrested man? Has to be some sort of back story to justify the guards actions. If not it looks like classic abuse of power.

latest from twitter is he aducted( refused to return them after visit in October) the kids from their mother in France as the youngest who have to wear a mask at school...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: fearbrags on May 04, 2021, 02:37:51 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on May 04, 2021, 01:55:01 PM
Quote from: Rudi on May 04, 2021, 11:53:31 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on May 04, 2021, 04:41:48 AM
https://twitter.com/dubslife1/status/1388957881194717186

Doesn't look good at all, must be more of a back story. Na Gardai involved here look clueless, sort of lads who failed all their exams & had an uncle in the guards & got in to Templemore. Telling your man to get his solicitor to phone Tulsa to find out where his kids are, guards chasing the young fella around the garden for 15 minutes. Didn't appear to be much wrong with the man in question. Why were so many known far right lads involved in assisting the arrested man? Has to be some sort of back story to justify the guards actions. If not it looks like classic abuse of power.

latest from twitter is he aducted( refused to return them after visit in October) the kids from their mother in France as the youngest who have to wear a mask at school...

If so why hadn't  the cops paperwork or even knowledge  about  adduction ?  Why raid at 3 oclock in the morning?  So the this guy videoing from the church  is just  a consequence?  Reminds me Of The whistle blower ""Mccabe"" all of a sudden being accused of abusing his own children, This episode  doesn't  sit right with me from start to finish ,  And then all the cops knowing nothing,  It is a joke   at least tell the man what is really going on ,  it is ridiculous
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on May 04, 2021, 03:05:54 PM
Totally stinks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 04, 2021, 03:24:41 PM
https://roscommonherald.ie/2021/05/04/court-rules-children-kept-in-ireland-over-facemask-issue-must-be-returned-to-france/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on May 04, 2021, 03:46:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 04, 2021, 03:24:41 PM
https://roscommonherald.ie/2021/05/04/court-rules-children-kept-in-ireland-over-facemask-issue-must-be-returned-to-france/

I see in court case that there has been a lot of over and back by phone and text with partner in France.  I wonder if impatient with proceedings she called guards to say he had sent some odd texts or said something.  She was complaining last March he was into conspiracy stuff.   She may have escalated and implied to Guards and Tusla that he was an immediate danger to kids.

I certainly have suspicions about why this is being played out by National Party on social media.  It's a  bit of a jump to bypass any effort through legal channels and go immediately to the i"t's a setup and conspiracy" . 

I would guess the kids were moved pretty quick to the mother, even though National Party are claiming that is a result of their pressure.

/Jim.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on May 04, 2021, 03:54:54 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on May 04, 2021, 03:46:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 04, 2021, 03:24:41 PM
https://roscommonherald.ie/2021/05/04/court-rules-children-kept-in-ireland-over-facemask-issue-must-be-returned-to-france/

I see in court case that there has been a lot of over and back by phone and text with partner in France.  I wonder if impatient with proceedings she called guards to say he had sent some odd texts or said something.  She was complaining last March he was into conspiracy stuff.   She may have escalated and implied to Guards and Tusla that he was an immediate danger to kids.

I certainly have suspicions about why this is being played out by National Party on social media.  It's a  bit of a jump to bypass any effort through legal channels and go immediately to the i"t's a setup and conspiracy" . 

I would guess the kids were moved pretty quick to the mother, even though National Party are claiming that is a result of their pressure.

/Jim.
It's a discussion board, not an email.
You don't need to sign your name at the end of your posts  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on May 04, 2021, 06:06:53 PM
Bloody Hell!

The UK (population 67.9m) has reported 4 Covid deaths for today:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274)
Their 7 day moving average of Covid deaths to 03 May is 15:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/)

Whilst France (pop. 65.3m) reported 311 Covid deaths yesterday, bringing their 7 day moving average to 03 May to 265 deaths:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/)

And there are still vaccine doubters out there?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 04, 2021, 06:19:52 PM
While I think the vaccines are a no brainer I don't think it's as clear cut on this. Different places seem to hit peaks at different times. I don't know exactly where France were at the start of the year but I don't think it was as bad as here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 04, 2021, 07:14:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 04, 2021, 06:19:52 PM
While I think the vaccines are a no brainer I don't think it's as clear cut on this. Different places seem to hit peaks at different times. I don't know exactly where France were at the start of the year but I don't think it was as bad as here.

Ah but France are going through their yearly seasonal flu period, this is when flu hits France the hardest. So I'd look at those Covid cases and deaths and just say, it's flu
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on May 04, 2021, 07:21:38 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 04, 2021, 06:19:52 PM
While I think the vaccines are a no brainer I don't think it's as clear cut on this. Different places seem to hit peaks at different times. I don't know exactly where France were at the start of the year but I don't think it was as bad as here.
Fair point, but in the end, the UK had a far worse 1st and 2nd wave than France during 2020, yet has managed to avoid a 3rd wave completely this year, whilst France hasn't. With much the same going for Germany, Spain and Italy etc,

And while we've all had lockdowns to one extent or another, it's the Vaccine figures which show the starkest difference: 
UK - 50m (33.5m 1st dose + 16.5m 2nd dose);
France - 23m (16.1m + 7m).

Whilst Germany, who've finally got their vaccination programme into full swing, are also beginning to see the benefits:
https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-covid-vaccine-campaign-showing-effect/a-57426369 (https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-covid-vaccine-campaign-showing-effect/a-57426369)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 04, 2021, 07:27:52 PM
You could be right. I hope you are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on May 04, 2021, 07:32:20 PM
Neil Ferguson now confident we are on the way back to normality

Im not so confident after hearing this...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 04, 2021, 09:17:08 PM
I see the Guards have launched a Covid breach hotline for Donegal. I saw the report on the RTE news. They interviewed a few locals. Not a lot of intelligent people interviewed. One guy babbling about his democratic human rights. A really dangerous level of stupidity.

Here's the report https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2021/0504/1213676-donegal-covid-cases/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2021/0504/1213676-donegal-covid-cases/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on May 04, 2021, 09:53:10 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 04, 2021, 09:17:08 PM
I see the Guards have launched a Covid breach hotline for Donegal. I saw the report on the RTE news. They interviewed a few locals. Not a lot of intelligent people interviewed. One guy babbling about his democratic human rights. A really dangerous level of stupidity.

Here's the report https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2021/0504/1213676-donegal-covid-cases/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2021/0504/1213676-donegal-covid-cases/)
Probably not too surprising that only 1 of the 5 interviewed said they'd use the hotline. But the babbler took the biscuit. It's his 'democratic right as a human being' to have parties during a pandemic!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 04, 2021, 10:12:15 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 04, 2021, 09:53:10 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 04, 2021, 09:17:08 PM
I see the Guards have launched a Covid breach hotline for Donegal. I saw the report on the RTE news. They interviewed a few locals. Not a lot of intelligent people interviewed. One guy babbling about his democratic human rights. A really dangerous level of stupidity.

Here's the report https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2021/0504/1213676-donegal-covid-cases/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2021/0504/1213676-donegal-covid-cases/)
Probably not too surprising that only 1 of the 5 interviewed said they'd use the hotline. But the babbler took the biscuit. It's his 'democratic right as a human being' to have parties during a pandemic!

Shows you what you're dealing with in Donegal. No wonder they think it's a beautiful place lol!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on May 05, 2021, 07:34:38 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 04, 2021, 09:17:08 PM
I see the Guards have launched a Covid breach hotline for Donegal. I saw the report on the RTE news. They interviewed a few locals. Not a lot of intelligent people interviewed. One guy babbling about his democratic human rights. A really dangerous level of stupidity.

Here's the report https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2021/0504/1213676-donegal-covid-cases/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2021/0504/1213676-donegal-covid-cases/)
touts are targets.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 05, 2021, 09:23:11 AM
Trailer has declared total war on Donegal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 05, 2021, 12:25:51 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 05, 2021, 09:23:11 AM
Trailer has declared total war on Donegal.

Might have to start a thread...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 05, 2021, 01:23:59 PM
I can see it now,

Donegal - The Uncomfortable Truth 😂

Might be safer waiting to see if Tyrone beat Cavan though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 05, 2021, 02:09:36 PM
Not surprising to see the usual zealots trying to mock someone over their democratic rights.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 05, 2021, 02:11:19 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 05, 2021, 02:09:36 PM
Not surprising to see the usual zealots trying to mock someone over their democratic rights.

Can you not start using another word?

The Zealots were a political movement in 1st-century Second Temple Judaism which sought to incite the people of Judea Province to rebel against the Roman Empire and expel it from the Holy Land by force of arms, most notably during the First Jewish–Roman War
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on May 06, 2021, 03:52:32 PM
I see they've found another variant to scare people with.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 06, 2021, 04:10:03 PM
It shows you though. They are locking people down who live here so they can do nothing but the restriction of travel is still ropy enough in terms of limiting stuff.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 09, 2021, 08:47:09 AM
Schools across the United Kingdom now open 6 or 7 weeks and not even the slightest hint of more cases
All sports and outdoor hospitality opened not a hint of rising cases
All retail open and not a hint of a rise in cases
What you make of that Milly boy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 09, 2021, 08:57:48 AM
Jesus you are a stupid boy, it's seasonal ya dafty
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on May 09, 2021, 09:42:30 AM
Quote14888 on: Today at 08:47:09 AM »
Quote
Schools across the United Kingdom now open 6 or 7 weeks and not even the slightest hint of more cases
All sports and outdoor hospitality opened not a hint of rising cases
All retail open and not a hint of a rise in cases
What you make of that Milly boy

Same in Ireland , all the spreaders are the 20 to 40 year olds. All partying the last 3 months and more and more stuff opening. No spike yet NPHET mining for cases and still testing 20k Per day.

NPHET and the MSM will try and say its peoples improved behaviour, they have started on this message last week already.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Smurfy123 on May 09, 2021, 10:52:30 AM
So why no spike Milly boy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on May 09, 2021, 12:18:27 PM
Quote from: highorlow on May 09, 2021, 09:42:30 AM
Quote14888 on: Today at 08:47:09 AM »
Quote
Schools across the United Kingdom now open 6 or 7 weeks and not even the slightest hint of more cases
All sports and outdoor hospitality opened not a hint of rising cases
All retail open and not a hint of a rise in cases
What you make of that Milly boy

Same in Ireland , all the spreaders are the 20 to 40 year olds. All partying the last 3 months and more and more stuff opening. No spike yet NPHET mining for cases and still testing 20k Per day.

NPHET and the MSM will try and say its peoples improved behaviour, they have started on this message last week already.
We never stopped partying the past year so that has fuckall to do with cases
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 09, 2021, 12:23:54 PM
Quote from: Smurfy123 on May 09, 2021, 10:52:30 AM
So why no spike Milly boy

Cause it's just flu and we never had Covid.

So can you explain French spikes and third wave?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 09, 2021, 12:56:42 PM
Why are Governments wasting Billions on vaccinations?
If only they'd read GAAboard..... :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 09, 2021, 05:36:09 PM
Weekly update for the ROI. Good progress made as we ease more restrictions from tomorrow.

Cases 3003 (221 fewer than last week) 
Reported Deaths 24 (12 fewer than last week)

In hospital 116 (11 fewer than a week ago)
In ICU 31 (10 fewer than last Sunday)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 10, 2021, 09:57:56 AM
I get the feeling some people here want the spike so they can claim a victory.....

It's going well. Hoping this is really it.

Serious amount of Southern Reg cars in my part of the world this weekend.....bold.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on May 10, 2021, 10:36:25 AM
500k+ people marched through the streets of London just over 2 weeks ago and there hasn't been a spike as a result.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 10, 2021, 11:06:51 AM
Quote from: clarshack on May 10, 2021, 10:36:25 AM
500k+ people marched through the streets of London just over 2 weeks ago and there hasn't been a spike as a result.

England offers great hope. Israel too. It's working.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 10, 2021, 11:12:12 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 10, 2021, 09:57:56 AM
I get the feeling some people here want the spike so they can claim a victory.....

It's going well. Hoping this is really it.

Serious amount of Southern Reg cars in my part of the world this weekend.....bold.

I get the feeling some people think its seasonal and other people believe that its just the flu and we didnt have cases of covid at all!

Still worth noting that we are still getting nearly 2000 cases a day of the flu which normally this time of the year we don't get, strange

As long as we continue to do what we are doing then we'll be grand
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 10, 2021, 11:37:22 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 10, 2021, 09:57:56 AM
I get the feeling some people here want the spike so they can claim a victory.....

It's going well. Hoping this is really it.

Serious amount of Southern Reg cars in my part of the world this weekend.....bold.

I'm confused by what you mean? Do you think there's people about who thought we should be staying in lockdown forever?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on May 10, 2021, 11:39:39 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 10, 2021, 11:37:22 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 10, 2021, 09:57:56 AM
I get the feeling some people here want the spike so they can claim a victory.....

It's going well. Hoping this is really it.

Serious amount of Southern Reg cars in my part of the world this weekend.....bold.

I'm confused by what you mean? Do you think there's people about who thought we should be staying in lockdown forever?

Yes there are people about who would be happy to stay locked down forever.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 10, 2021, 11:41:56 AM
Quote from: clarshack on May 10, 2021, 11:39:39 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 10, 2021, 11:37:22 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 10, 2021, 09:57:56 AM
I get the feeling some people here want the spike so they can claim a victory.....

It's going well. Hoping this is really it.

Serious amount of Southern Reg cars in my part of the world this weekend.....bold.

I'm confused by what you mean? Do you think there's people about who thought we should be staying in lockdown forever?

Yes there are people about who would be happy to stay locked down forever.

Sorry we'll have to disagree, I think that's nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 10, 2021, 11:53:05 AM
I don't know anyone who is in any way happy with lockdown. I don't understand why anyone thinks that is the case. This thing has people stressed up to high dough so there will be very paranoid people who are reluctant to move quickly out of lockdown yes but I don't see how anyone wants it or why they would.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on May 10, 2021, 11:58:21 AM
Quote from: clarshack on May 10, 2021, 11:39:39 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 10, 2021, 11:37:22 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 10, 2021, 09:57:56 AM
I get the feeling some people here want the spike so they can claim a victory.....

It's going well. Hoping this is really it.

Serious amount of Southern Reg cars in my part of the world this weekend.....bold.

I'm confused by what you mean? Do you think there's people about who thought we should be staying in lockdown forever?

Yes there are people about who would be happy to stay locked down forever.

I say down with the Cabal, the great reset, 5g etc... Will you be marching on Benone beach this Sat Clarshack? If so, make sure to be as anti-everything as you can, loud and proud. Those we critters building sand castles need to woken up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on May 10, 2021, 12:11:03 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 10, 2021, 11:58:21 AM
Quote from: clarshack on May 10, 2021, 11:39:39 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 10, 2021, 11:37:22 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 10, 2021, 09:57:56 AM
I get the feeling some people here want the spike so they can claim a victory.....

It's going well. Hoping this is really it.

Serious amount of Southern Reg cars in my part of the world this weekend.....bold.

I'm confused by what you mean? Do you think there's people about who thought we should be staying in lockdown forever?

Yes there are people about who would be happy to stay locked down forever.

I say down with the Cabal, the great reset, 5g etc... Will you be marching on Benone beach this Sat Clarshack? If so, make sure to be as anti-everything as you can, loud and proud. Those we critters building sand castles need to woken up.

Wtf are you on about? Sadly, I know people who don't care if they never leave the house again. what on earth has that got to do with 5g?. You have lost the plot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 10, 2021, 12:16:49 PM
Quote from: clarshack on May 10, 2021, 12:11:03 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 10, 2021, 11:58:21 AM
Quote from: clarshack on May 10, 2021, 11:39:39 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 10, 2021, 11:37:22 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 10, 2021, 09:57:56 AM
I get the feeling some people here want the spike so they can claim a victory.....

It's going well. Hoping this is really it.

Serious amount of Southern Reg cars in my part of the world this weekend.....bold.

I'm confused by what you mean? Do you think there's people about who thought we should be staying in lockdown forever?

Yes there are people about who would be happy to stay locked down forever.

I say down with the Cabal, the great reset, 5g etc... Will you be marching on Benone beach this Sat Clarshack? If so, make sure to be as anti-everything as you can, loud and proud. Those we critters building sand castles need to woken up.

Wtf are you on about? Sadly, I know people who don't care if they never leave the house again. what on earth has that got to do with 5g?. You have lost the plot.
I know no one who thinks like that. Not even one. It must be an absolute tiny minority. Supporting lock downs does not mean supporting lockdowns forever. That shouldn't even need to be said, but it looks like it does.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 10, 2021, 12:19:33 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 10, 2021, 11:37:22 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 10, 2021, 09:57:56 AM
I get the feeling some people here want the spike so they can claim a victory.....

It's going well. Hoping this is really it.

Serious amount of Southern Reg cars in my part of the world this weekend.....bold.

I'm confused by what you mean? Do you think there's people about who thought we should be staying in lockdown forever?

My point was about this thread really - in an effort to throw it back at others. Not about general, real life.

Regarding real life....I think a tiny minority would be happy enough with the furlough life....it mustn't be bad. But the vast majority of people long for the good old days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on May 10, 2021, 12:30:58 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 09, 2021, 05:36:09 PM
Weekly update for the ROI. Good progress made as we ease more restrictions from tomorrow.

Cases 3003 (221 fewer than last week) 
Reported Deaths 24 (12 fewer than last week)

In hospital 116 (11 fewer than a week ago)
In ICU 31 (10 fewer than last Sunday)
This is good news. Hopefully there'll be under 100 people in hospital by next week. Vaccine rollout is much improved after a poor start, and vaccine take-up by the general population who've been offered it so far has been very good. 

While there'll obviously be differences over certain things, it is good that politicians on all sides have the same general message they are giving to people:
- We're nearly there, but we're not over the line so we still need to take care and act responsibly
- Get the vaccine when you're offered it

I think we're well on course for pubs and restaurants to be fully open by end of June
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on May 10, 2021, 12:46:43 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 12:30:58 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 09, 2021, 05:36:09 PM
Weekly update for the ROI. Good progress made as we ease more restrictions from tomorrow.

Cases 3003 (221 fewer than last week) 
Reported Deaths 24 (12 fewer than last week)

In hospital 116 (11 fewer than a week ago)
In ICU 31 (10 fewer than last Sunday)
This is good news. Hopefully there'll be under 100 people in hospital by next week. Vaccine rollout is much improved after a poor start, and vaccine take-up by the general population who've been offered it so far has been very good. 

While there'll obviously be differences over certain things, it is good that politicians on all sides have the same general message they are giving to people:
- We're nearly there, but we're not over the line so we still need to take care and act responsibly
- Get the vaccine when you're offered it

I think we're well on course for pubs and restaurants to be fully open by end of June
In the South? Be lucky to have outdoors opened by then by the sound of the clowns.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 10, 2021, 12:55:07 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 10, 2021, 12:19:33 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 10, 2021, 11:37:22 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 10, 2021, 09:57:56 AM
I get the feeling some people here want the spike so they can claim a victory.....

It's going well. Hoping this is really it.

Serious amount of Southern Reg cars in my part of the world this weekend.....bold.

I'm confused by what you mean? Do you think there's people about who thought we should be staying in lockdown forever?

My point was about this thread really - in an effort to throw it back at others. Not about general, real life.

Regarding real life....I think a tiny minority would be happy enough with the furlough life....it mustn't be bad. But the vast majority of people long for the good old days.
But is there anyone on this thread that is in favour of on going lockdowns irrespective of the numbers? I'm not aware of any.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 10, 2021, 12:56:08 PM
Outdoor dining/drink from 7th June in the 26.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 10, 2021, 12:58:16 PM
Things appear to be heading in the right direction. Hopefully normality by late summer. Vaccine passports will become the norm. As numbers remain low their is no excuse not to reopen things.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on May 10, 2021, 01:14:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 10, 2021, 12:56:08 PM
Outdoor dining/drink from 7th June in the 26.

I have seen some outdoor smoking areas that aren't really outdoor. Roof, closed at 3 ends. Kind of like a buliding with  double door removed. No doubt some money hungry clowns will believe this constitutes an open space. Wonder if the health department have defined parameters for what constitutes an out door area.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on May 10, 2021, 01:16:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 10, 2021, 12:56:08 PM
Outdoor dining/drink from 7th June in the 26.
Exactly.
Don't think it's published yet, but I have heard the plan for indoors is June 28. This assumes everything stays on track.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 10, 2021, 01:35:20 PM
Quote from: Rudi on May 10, 2021, 01:14:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 10, 2021, 12:56:08 PM
Outdoor dining/drink from 7th June in the 26.

I have seen some outdoor smoking areas that aren't really outdoor. Roof, closed at 3 ends. Kind of like a buliding with  double door removed. No doubt some money hungry clowns will believe this constitutes an open space. Wonder if the health department have defined parameters for what constitutes an out door area.

Lots of bars that did 'some work' were refused opening in the North as it didnt meet requirements, so I'd imagine there are some points that have to be met for it to be 'safe'
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 10, 2021, 01:48:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 10, 2021, 01:35:20 PM
Quote from: Rudi on May 10, 2021, 01:14:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 10, 2021, 12:56:08 PM
Outdoor dining/drink from 7th June in the 26.

I have seen some outdoor smoking areas that aren't really outdoor. Roof, closed at 3 ends. Kind of like a buliding with  double door removed. No doubt some money hungry clowns will believe this constitutes an open space. Wonder if the health department have defined parameters for what constitutes an out door area.

Lots of bars that did 'some work' were refused opening in the North as it didnt meet requirements, so I'd imagine there are some points that have to be met for it to be 'safe'

Met a fella coming out of a bar there on Sunday evening, half cut in great tune but for a non smoker he was absolutely stinking of it.

Wouldn't be my cup of tea to sit and have 2nd hand smoke about me all day. I'm happy enough to wait until normal indoors returns.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 10, 2021, 01:50:26 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 10, 2021, 01:48:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 10, 2021, 01:35:20 PM
Quote from: Rudi on May 10, 2021, 01:14:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 10, 2021, 12:56:08 PM
Outdoor dining/drink from 7th June in the 26.

I have seen some outdoor smoking areas that aren't really outdoor. Roof, closed at 3 ends. Kind of like a buliding with  double door removed. No doubt some money hungry clowns will believe this constitutes an open space. Wonder if the health department have defined parameters for what constitutes an out door area.

Lots of bars that did 'some work' were refused opening in the North as it didnt meet requirements, so I'd imagine there are some points that have to be met for it to be 'safe'

Met a fella coming out of a bar there on Sunday evening, half cut in great tune but for a non smoker he was absolutely stinking of it.

Wouldn't be my cup of tea to sit and have 2nd hand smoke about me all day. I'm happy enough to wait until normal indoors returns.

Yeah no rush for me, though I may start booking a few places to eat as I'd imagine they will be booked out for the first weekend
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on May 10, 2021, 06:07:51 PM
No deaths today in Ireland or Britain according to Joe.ie. Feck thats some going.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on May 10, 2021, 08:10:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 10, 2021, 06:07:51 PM
No deaths today in Ireland or Britain according to Joe.ie. Feck thats some going.
Actually there were 4 deaths reported in Wales today, though none in England, Scotland or NI:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57055340 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57055340)

Which is probably just an anomaly, since Wales' overall virus figures have been just about the best in the UK recently.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 10, 2021, 08:52:47 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 10, 2021, 06:07:51 PM
No deaths today in Ireland or Britain according to Joe.ie. Feck thats some going.

That's a Monday thing.
But that said, these vaccines will mean that few people in future will die from Covid, other perhaps than those with a very short life expectancy.
Science works!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on May 11, 2021, 12:15:51 AM
Under 400 "cases" in Ireland again today.

Healthy 16 to 50 year olds are yet to be vaccinated. Full construction now open two weeks. Barber shops open today, super spreader marquee weddings, click and collect opening, inter county GAA back, golf back, training back outdoors, all superspreader things that were under enforced closure to "follow the science" are back, apart from pubs and restaurants. If the science is correct we are definitely in for a surge of "cases" in a week or so with the "R" number hitting 2 to 2.5 as the unvaccinated are the main cohort of "super" spreaders to start with.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 11, 2021, 01:09:43 AM
Quote from: highorlow on May 11, 2021, 12:15:51 AM
Under 400 "cases" in Ireland again today.

Healthy 16 to 50 year olds are yet to be vaccinated. Full construction now open two weeks. Barber shops open today, super spreader marquee weddings, click and collect opening, inter county GAA back, golf back, training back outdoors, all superspreader things that were under enforced closure to "follow the science" are back, apart from pubs and restaurants. If the science is correct we are definitely in for a surge of "cases" in a week or so with the "R" number hitting 2 to 2.5 as the unvaccinated are the main cohort of "super" spreaders to start with.

Super spreader marquee weddings are not that common, universities are finishing up, and pubs remain closed and they are a huge problem.
There may be some increase in cases for a while, but they are doing 250,000 vaccines a week, by the end of month half the adults will have had some sort of vaccine and that will cut the R rate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on May 11, 2021, 07:11:14 AM
Quoteby the end of month half the adults will have had some sort of vaccine and that will cut the R rate.
:)


https://mobile.twitter.com/TodayFM/status/1389840535075102721
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 11, 2021, 08:56:32 AM
Quote from: highorlow on May 11, 2021, 12:15:51 AM
Under 400 "cases" in Ireland again today.

Healthy 16 to 50 year olds are yet to be vaccinated. Full construction now open two weeks. Barber shops open today, super spreader marquee weddings, click and collect opening, inter county GAA back, golf back, training back outdoors, all superspreader things that were under enforced closure to "follow the science" are back, apart from pubs and restaurants. If the science is correct we are definitely in for a surge of "cases" in a week or so with the "R" number hitting 2 to 2.5 as the unvaccinated are the main cohort of "super" spreaders to start with.

We'll know more when the bars are opened up indoors and no rule of 6. 3 weeks after it opens up and if its done right and the numbers are the same or lower then the vaccine has worked, less people getting sick and not requiring medical help. We'll hopefully get the supporters back at the grounds and be able to celebrate the wins in the pub afterwards.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 11, 2021, 10:03:08 AM
Quote from: highorlow on May 11, 2021, 12:15:51 AM
Under 400 "cases" in Ireland again today.

Healthy 16 to 50 year olds are yet to be vaccinated. Full construction now open two weeks. Barber shops open today, super spreader marquee weddings, click and collect opening, inter county GAA back, golf back, training back outdoors, all superspreader things that were under enforced closure to "follow the science" are back, apart from pubs and restaurants. If the science is correct we are definitely in for a surge of "cases" in a week or so with the "R" number hitting 2 to 2.5 as the unvaccinated are the main cohort of "super" spreaders to start with.
You sound really annoyed that the vaccine is sorting out this pandemic. I really don't understand that view point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 11, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
I particularly like the use of quotes around the word cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 11, 2021, 10:12:23 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 11, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
I particularly like the use of quotes around the word cases.

What he's like to put in there would be 'flu's' cause in May we are flat out with the Spring/Summer flu that hospitalises people
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on May 11, 2021, 11:16:32 AM
QuoteYou sound really annoyed that the vaccine is sorting out this pandemic.I really don't understand that view point.

To infer that from what I have stated is nonsense.

To state that the vaccine is sorting out this "pandemic" is correct to a certain extent, particularly among the elderly. However the massive spreaders in the country, i.e. the 18 to 40 year olds are not and will not be vaccinated until June. The "cases" remain stagnated within this cohort and have been since Feb (appears to be the same trend as last year), yet we are as open to spreading the "disease" now than we were at Christmas plus we have all these "new variants" around. The numbers are stagnated?

The "science" prior to this, particularly from the Maynooth "scientists" tells us that we ought to have cases of 4000 per day by now from this "highly contagious disease" in the unvaccinated? Maybe they got it wrong?

What I am also questioning is the unscientific lockdown, the hammer to kill the mosquito. I was all for the "circuit breaker" approach and "cocooning", when needed, both of these ideas were mentioned a few times last year but disappeared into the ether along with the brief mention by Boris on losing weight and watching ones diet (don't believe NPHET ever alluded to diet or weight loss programs for people? Poor form from health "experts" imo.). 

Another issue that was never raised on this is the demographics and a solution to solve the regional outbreaks. The spread is not in Donegal as a whole, it is in a wee part of Donegal.

What is the scientific reason for cancelling all outdoor concerts this year if the vaccine is "sorting out this pandemic"? I just don't get it? Maybe I'm missing something?

If we are 80% vaccinated by end of June and the vaccine sorts this out why can't we get back to normal fully at this stage?

If someone gives me an acceptable scientific reason to not be back to full "normal" by the end of June I would like to hear from them.

Opposing voice = Conspiracy Theorist






Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 11, 2021, 11:29:36 AM
Quote from: highorlow on May 11, 2021, 11:16:32 AM

What is the scientific reason for cancelling all outdoor concerts this year if the vaccine is "sorting out this pandemic"? I just don't get it? Maybe I'm missing something?

You are missing that this is early May, and it simply is not possible to say with absolute confidence at this stage what will happen later in the year. Likely there will be concerts for fully vaccinated people. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on May 11, 2021, 11:47:16 AM
QuoteYou are missing that this is early May, and it simply is not possible to say with absolute confidence at this stage what will happen later in the year. Likely there will be concerts for fully vaccinated people.

Good point. The future will answer many questions.

There is always Malahide beach for the impromptu uncontrolled summer raves anyhow.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 11, 2021, 12:37:46 PM
Quote from: highorlow on May 11, 2021, 11:16:32 AM
QuoteYou sound really annoyed that the vaccine is sorting out this pandemic.I really don't understand that view point.

To infer that from what I have stated is nonsense.

To state that the vaccine is sorting out this "pandemic" is correct to a certain extent, particularly among the elderly. However the massive spreaders in the country, i.e. the 18 to 40 year olds are not and will not be vaccinated until June. The "cases" remain stagnated within this cohort and have been since Feb (appears to be the same trend as last year), yet we are as open to spreading the "disease" now than we were at Christmas plus we have all these "new variants" around. The numbers are stagnated?

The "science" prior to this, particularly from the Maynooth "scientists" tells us that we ought to have cases of 4000 per day by now from this "highly contagious disease" in the unvaccinated? Maybe they got it wrong?

What I am also questioning is the unscientific lockdown, the hammer to kill the mosquito. I was all for the "circuit breaker" approach and "cocooning", when needed, both of these ideas were mentioned a few times last year but disappeared into the ether along with the brief mention by Boris on losing weight and watching ones diet (don't believe NPHET ever alluded to diet or weight loss programs for people? Poor form from health "experts" imo.). 

Another issue that was never raised on this is the demographics and a solution to solve the regional outbreaks. The spread is not in Donegal as a whole, it is in a wee part of Donegal.

What is the scientific reason for cancelling all outdoor concerts this year if the vaccine is "sorting out this pandemic"? I just don't get it? Maybe I'm missing something?

If we are 80% vaccinated by end of June and the vaccine sorts this out why can't we get back to normal fully at this stage?

If someone gives me an acceptable scientific reason to not be back to full "normal" by the end of June I would like to hear from them.

Opposing voice = Conspiracy Theorist

There is no two ways about it. The vaccine is absolutely sorting this pandemic out. The U40 group that is unvaccinated is also the age grouping that Covid had lest impact on. Therefore it's not unsurprising to see levels drop. We are not as open to spreading the disease now as Feb because the numbers are much lower, therefore there is less Covid to spread. Again that shouldn't need explaining. It has always been part of the process of lockdowns to bring numbers down.
The science behind the slow open up is quite simple. They have 2 options. Open up quickly and take the chance that Covid is properly under control but if they are wrong potentially look at another spike and we know what can happen from that. Or remove limitations slowly and review the impact to ensure Covid is kept in check. If they are being too cautious it might be a few weeks extra lockdown that wasn't required. I'd prefer to risk that than a potential spike again,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on May 11, 2021, 01:23:55 PM
QuoteThere is no two ways about it. The vaccine is absolutely sorting this pandemic out. The U40 group that is unvaccinated is also the age grouping that Covid had lest impact on. Therefore it's not unsurprising to see levels drop. We are not as open to spreading the disease now as Feb because the numbers are much lower, therefore there is less Covid to spread. Again that shouldn't need explaining. It has always been part of the process of lockdowns to bring numbers down.
The science behind the slow open up is quite simple. They have 2 options. Open up quickly and take the chance that Covid is properly under control but if they are wrong potentially look at another spike and we know what can happen from that. Or remove limitations slowly and review the impact to ensure Covid is kept in check. If they are being too cautious it might be a few weeks extra lockdown that wasn't required. I'd prefer to risk that than a potential spike again,

The parts in bold are complete and utter nonsense apart from the first one. Most of what you said is contradictory and validates my arguments. Least impact, low risk u40's therefore why have a lockdown? The numbers were also much lower last October and the thing spread so I don't get your "less Covid to spread" point at all? The "process of lockdowns" certainly brings the numbers down, that's clear, weather the process was fully correct and followed the "science" is another story.

The major issue, and you may agree or disagree with me on this was a failure by the HSE and NPHET to protect the care homes and hospital wards. It's clear that this thing spreads in particular environments. Whether locking down the healthy and closing businesses and telling people to "stay indoors" during the spike period helped or not is anyone's guess, maybe for a circuit breaker period, maybe not at all?

As every week that goes by now it is costing the state and citizens vast sums of cash, Europe will use our corporate tax rate as a bargaining tool to bail us out of this mess. 10 of the largest FDI companies are responsible for 90% of our corporate tax income as well as been the largest employers in the country. With this mix and Biden in power we are in for a ropey period economically.

None of the economic fallout ever appears to be factored into the risk by the NPHET's of this world.

The tsunami of the waiting lists next September to Feb 22 for hospital treatments is also on the way. That's a story for another day.

How will we take pressure off what will be a malfunctioning and underfunded health sector next Winter? Lord knows.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 11, 2021, 01:37:23 PM
Quote from: highorlow on May 11, 2021, 01:23:55 PM
QuoteThere is no two ways about it. The vaccine is absolutely sorting this pandemic out. The U40 group that is unvaccinated is also the age grouping that Covid had lest impact on. Therefore it's not unsurprising to see levels drop. We are not as open to spreading the disease now as Feb because the numbers are much lower, therefore there is less Covid to spread. Again that shouldn't need explaining. It has always been part of the process of lockdowns to bring numbers down.
The science behind the slow open up is quite simple. They have 2 options. Open up quickly and take the chance that Covid is properly under control but if they are wrong potentially look at another spike and we know what can happen from that. Or remove limitations slowly and review the impact to ensure Covid is kept in check. If they are being too cautious it might be a few weeks extra lockdown that wasn't required. I'd prefer to risk that than a potential spike again,

The parts in bold are complete and utter nonsense apart from the first one. Most of what you said is contradictory and validates my arguments. Least impact, low risk u40's therefore why have a lockdown? The numbers were also much lower last October and the thing spread so I don't get your "less Covid to spread" point at all? The "process of lockdowns" certainly brings the numbers down, that's clear, weather the process was fully correct and followed the "science" is another story.

The major issue, and you may agree or disagree with me on this was a failure by the HSE and NPHET to protect the care homes and hospital wards. It's clear that this thing spreads in particular environments. Whether locking down the healthy and closing businesses and telling people to "stay indoors" during the spike period helped or not is anyone's guess, maybe for a circuit breaker period, maybe not at all?

As every week that goes by now it is costing the state and citizens vast sums of cash, Europe will use our corporate tax rate as a bargaining tool to bail us out of this mess. 10 of the largest FDI companies are responsible for 90% of our corporate tax income as well as been the largest employers in the country. With this mix and Biden in power we are in for a ropey period economically.

None of the economic fallout ever appears to be factored into the risk by the NPHET's of this world.

The tsunami of the waiting lists next September to Feb 22 for hospital treatments is also on the way. That's a story for another day.

How will we take pressure off what will be a malfunctioning and underfunded health sector next Winter? Lord knows.

Great post.

Lockdowns caused huge damage and seemed to have little impact when the virus peaked.

The real problems was the inability of governments and health services to effectively protect the vulnerable in hospital and care settings. It was nice of them to blame those failings on the people rather than acknowledge their own errors.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on May 11, 2021, 01:43:38 PM
Jesus H Christ. Here come the usual suspects with the same usual claims. Is it November 2020 again?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on May 11, 2021, 02:11:35 PM
QuoteJesus H Christ. Here come the usual suspects with the same usual claims. Is it November 2020 again?


Not claims, facts.

Based on true blues logic if we were a population of 3.5million people and everyone was under the age of 50 then Covid wouldn't exist or there would be "less Covid to spread" as he says himself. Maybe he is correct? All the science and data was known from the the petri dish of the Diamond Princess (seen as louther wants to go back in time).

This was a care home and hospital pandemic, the healthy public were the scapegoats / scapesheep.

Opposing voice  = "Usual Claims"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 11, 2021, 03:30:29 PM
Quote from: highorlow on May 11, 2021, 01:23:55 PM
QuoteThere is no two ways about it. The vaccine is absolutely sorting this pandemic out. The U40 group that is unvaccinated is also the age grouping that Covid had lest impact on. Therefore it's not unsurprising to see levels drop. We are not as open to spreading the disease now as Feb because the numbers are much lower, therefore there is less Covid to spread. Again that shouldn't need explaining. It has always been part of the process of lockdowns to bring numbers down.
The science behind the slow open up is quite simple. They have 2 options. Open up quickly and take the chance that Covid is properly under control but if they are wrong potentially look at another spike and we know what can happen from that. Or remove limitations slowly and review the impact to ensure Covid is kept in check. If they are being too cautious it might be a few weeks extra lockdown that wasn't required. I'd prefer to risk that than a potential spike again,

The parts in bold are complete and utter nonsense apart from the first one. Most of what you said is contradictory and validates my arguments. Least impact, low risk u40's therefore why have a lockdown? The numbers were also much lower last October and the thing spread so I don't get your "less Covid to spread" point at all? The "process of lockdowns" certainly brings the numbers down, that's clear, weather the process was fully correct and followed the "science" is another story.

The major issue, and you may agree or disagree with me on this was a failure by the HSE and NPHET to protect the care homes and hospital wards. It's clear that this thing spreads in particular environments. Whether locking down the healthy and closing businesses and telling people to "stay indoors" during the spike period helped or not is anyone's guess, maybe for a circuit breaker period, maybe not at all?

As every week that goes by now it is costing the state and citizens vast sums of cash, Europe will use our corporate tax rate as a bargaining tool to bail us out of this mess. 10 of the largest FDI companies are responsible for 90% of our corporate tax income as well as been the largest employers in the country. With this mix and Biden in power we are in for a ropey period economically.

None of the economic fallout ever appears to be factored into the risk by the NPHET's of this world.

The tsunami of the waiting lists next September to Feb 22 for hospital treatments is also on the way. That's a story for another day.

How will we take pressure off what will be a malfunctioning and underfunded health sector next Winter? Lord knows.

Naw you've lost me. You've highlighted things in bold claiming they were nonsense but then went on to agree with parts of it. That U40's are affected less than the higher age groups, That lockdowns lower numbers, That numbers are lower now than Feb. Let me know what issues you have with any of that.

Quote from: highorlow on May 11, 2021, 02:11:35 PM
QuoteJesus H Christ. Here come the usual suspects with the same usual claims. Is it November 2020 again?


Not claims, facts.

Based on true blues logic if we were a population of 3.5million people and everyone was under the age of 50 then Covid wouldn't exist or there would be "less Covid to spread" as he says himself. Maybe he is correct? All the science and data was known from the the petri dish of the Diamond Princess (seen as louther wants to go back in time).

This was a care home and hospital pandemic, the healthy public were the scapegoats / scapesheep.

Opposing voice  = "Usual Claims"
I'd be interested to see where I claimed that? There is less covid cases now than earlier in the year. The higher the number of cases the increased risk of catching covid. Are you not getting this? It's basic stuff. I never said the U40's can't get or carry covid. Which is why there are still restrictions on indoor meetings/ socialising I'm really at a loss for what exactly your argument is? The rest about hospitals and cares homes is valid. However when covid is rife in society it's virtually impossible to keep it out of these places. That's why lockdowns were needed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on May 11, 2021, 04:08:28 PM
QuoteThere is less covid cases now than earlier in the year. The higher the number of cases the increased risk of catching covid. Are you not getting this?

Exponential growth was the science though? And the science behind the the lockdowns. THIS is what you don't appear to get or else it's something that doesn't suit your narrative.

In any single week in Ireland there are likely 3000 people traipsing around "with" covid.

The science says these people can carry and spread this presymptomaticly. The vast majority of the people testing positive since Feb (probably 400 average per day) are under 40 and probably the average age is under 30.

You are trying to say to me now that the reason that we no longer have "exponential" growth is due to the vaccine? Are you trying to say that all these under 30 year old Covid carriers are skating in the park with their vaccinated grannies rather than their mates?

Much of the science has proven that lockdowns and severe lockdowns are unnecessary (i think even the WHO stated these were a last resort), the vaccine is now further proving the same. Any opposing voice to severe lockdowns are "making claims" or "conspiracy theorists".

QuoteHowever when covid is rife in society it's virtually impossible to keep it out of these places. That's why lockdowns were needed.

NPHET had a year or more to sort out this. It's virtually impossible but not completely impossible. Leaky Leo said we would have the South Korea testing and tracing system in place here, yet by x-mass the excel software they were using blew up. What's the function of the Covid APP? Nobody can explain what use that was? What was citywest for? I presumed at the time that was going to be set up as a covid only hospital to avoid staff and non covid patients mixing?

Anyhow these are all for the usual "lessons learned" report that happens throughout the Irish Civil service on a monthly basis.

I''m also guessing that we will find out at some stage that they have subbed out the vaccine rollout to some larger "top 10" firm, as there is no way that the HSE / NPHET or the DOH are in any way capable of undertaking the logistics of the vaccine rollout to the success it is eventually getting to. They will take the praise though.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 11, 2021, 04:14:42 PM
Was that not based on the R number though?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 11, 2021, 04:19:33 PM
Quote from: highorlow on May 11, 2021, 11:16:32 AM
QuoteYou sound really annoyed that the vaccine is sorting out this pandemic.I really don't understand that view point.

To infer that from what I have stated is nonsense.

To state that the vaccine is sorting out this "pandemic" is correct to a certain extent, particularly among the elderly.
Opposing voice = Conspiracy Theorist

Well said, + 1 and all that..

Anyone that wouldn't want to protect the elderly is a cnut in my view.

Vaccinating everyone is the way forward, as you have said in your post the vaccine is sorting out this pandemic, well said, anyone that thinks not getting vaccinated and not at risk of spreading the virus is a dick

In your view we should have just give up on the elderly, the nursing homes and hospitals and went about as nothing happened , surprised your mate didn't throw in words like you're a Nazi or his fav, Zealot (shakes head)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on May 11, 2021, 06:35:55 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/newschambers/status/1392147409917157376?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1392147409917157376%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2F
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 11, 2021, 07:50:34 PM
Why are they overcrowded?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 11, 2021, 10:04:45 PM
Quote from: highorlow on May 11, 2021, 11:16:32 AMplus we have all these "new variants" around.


If we are 80% vaccinated by end of June and the vaccine sorts this out why can't we get back to normal fully at this stage?
If someone gives me an acceptable scientific reason to not be back to full "normal" by the end of June I would like to hear from them.


"We" don't have all these "new variants" around. Various parts of the world have new variants.

Its in our best interests to keep those variants as far from these shores as possible - as there is always the chance it compromises the vulnerable that have been vaccinated and pushes us back toward square one. Thus, if you ask for "full normal" I'd say grand by end of June (in NI, prob not ROI quite yet vaccinations aren't where they need to be) - but full normal is internal to island only and not jetting off to the four corners of the world.



With regards why its different now from 12 months or even 9 months ago - 20 year old Jimmy isn't asymptomatically carting home the virus to his parents (who are more vulnerable) who in turn also pass it on to his grand parents (who are extremely vulnerable). Now the grandparents are vaccinated and probably the parents are too. Its not too hard to fathom really.


As to why cases aren't up in the age group, who knows. Could be signs of virus burnout - most viral mutations increase transmissability with a reduction in lethality. So even more of the younger generations may be shrugging it off with only brief symptoms.


Lockdowns absolutely were required. As the majority were too stupid to take the right precautions and behave sensibly when advice was more nuanced. Therefore a "one-size fits all"  (aka don't give the stupid room to do it wrong) was a necessary evil.


You'd think you'd take one look at whats happening in India right now and realise just why lockdowns here were needed. Its hard to fathom how anyone could be so fukking thick they couldn't realise that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on May 11, 2021, 10:23:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 11, 2021, 07:50:34 PM
Why are they overcrowded?

Hypochondriacs?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 16, 2021, 09:23:46 AM
How dangerous is this Indian variant? 61 cases of this strain reported in the south yesterday I see on twitter this morning. Will it cause the govt to delay anything, or worse still another lockdown in the middle of the summer?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2021, 09:31:38 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 16, 2021, 09:23:46 AM
How dangerous is this Indian variant? 61 cases of this strain reported in the south yesterday I see on twitter this morning. Will it cause the govt to delay anything, or worse still another lockdown in the middle of the summer?

Sure it's only a mild dose of the flu, best ignored..

I jest, rapid testing and tracking needs to be done, needs to be contained
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 09:35:11 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 16, 2021, 09:23:46 AM
How dangerous is this Indian variant? 61 cases of this strain reported in the south yesterday I see on twitter this morning. Will it cause the govt to delay anything, or worse still another lockdown in the middle of the summer?
The danger is in its transmissibility

The Kent variant was a lot more transmissible than the original version

And this is a lot more transmissible again

Which means at a population level its more serious for the public health situation than a hypothetically more lethal variant with the same transmissibility of original Covid

We in the Republic are well behind the UK in vaccination terms, so it's more of a worry for us than for them, though that is not to say it's not a worry for the UK

If you have three to four million people unvaccinated, it has the potential to cause serious harm - possibly not on the scale of January, but serious harm all the same

And it poses real problems in terms of opening society
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 09:39:52 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2021, 09:31:38 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 16, 2021, 09:23:46 AM
How dangerous is this Indian variant? 61 cases of this strain reported in the south yesterday I see on twitter this morning. Will it cause the govt to delay anything, or worse still another lockdown in the middle of the summer?

Sure it's only a mild dose of the flu, best ignored..

I jest, rapid testing and tracking needs to be done, needs to be contained
The truth is it isn't going to be contained

We're sleepwalking into a very wide spread of the Indian variant

In the Republic, I would suggest that 7-8k cases per day at some point over the next month or two is far from an impossibility
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 16, 2021, 03:47:50 PM
Is (or has he already) Bojo going f**k up his vaccination victory lap by letting the Indian variant get a strong foothold? English Nationalists will forgive him for pretty much anything bar denying them their promised freedoms. All for the sake of an Indian trade deal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 17, 2021, 05:15:27 PM
Potentially good news from Australian research, anti viral kills 99.9% of the Covid19 in mice.
https://www.miragenews.com/researchers-develop-direct-acting-antiviral-to-561245/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on May 17, 2021, 06:38:34 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 16, 2021, 09:23:46 AM
How dangerous is this Indian variant? 61 cases of this strain reported in the south yesterday I see on twitter this morning. Will it cause the govt to delay anything, or worse still another lockdown in the middle of the summer?

Variants aren't the problem it's the amount of people mixing before a good portion of this population is vaccinated. In India they had many millions celebrate the hindu festival with little care towards the spread of covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 17, 2021, 11:32:14 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 16, 2021, 09:23:46 AM
How dangerous is this Indian variant?

It doesn't seem to be a problem.

But at the rate govts and stupid people around the world keep making a f**k up of it - its only a matter of time before a variant comes along that is a problem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on May 18, 2021, 10:17:31 AM
QuoteIt doesn't seem to be a problem.

You would say that....cause you appear to be right about everything.....

Quote"We" don't have all these "new variants" around.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 18, 2021, 11:04:08 AM
The Indian variant is more transmissible there no evidence to suggest it more lethal. The vaccines work against it. Most people in hospital in England are entitled to the vaccine and choose not to get it.

Get vaccinated and this all goes away.

Interesting the vaccine up take is less in poorer areas and areas with poorer educational outcomes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 18, 2021, 11:27:37 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2021, 11:04:08 AM
The Indian variant is more transmissible there no evidence to suggest it more lethal. The vaccines work against it. Most people in hospital in England are entitled to the vaccine and choose not to get it.

Get vaccinated and this all goes away.

Interesting the vaccine up take is less in poorer areas and areas with poorer educational outcomes.

Don't be so quick to put it to education.

Going on what I deal with at home here, most of these people are pissed off with the Govt for their circumstances - they have very little by way of F-You to the powers that be. This is one they seem to have weaponised.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 18, 2021, 11:31:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 18, 2021, 11:27:37 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2021, 11:04:08 AM
The Indian variant is more transmissible there no evidence to suggest it more lethal. The vaccines work against it. Most people in hospital in England are entitled to the vaccine and choose not to get it.

Get vaccinated and this all goes away.

Interesting the vaccine up take is less in poorer areas and areas with poorer educational outcomes.

Don't be so quick to put it to education.

Going on what I deal with at home here, most of these people are pissed off with the Govt for their circumstances - they have very little by way of F-You to the powers that be. This is one they seem to have weaponised.

Putting their lives at risk to say f**k you to the government? That is certainly not an smart thing to do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 18, 2021, 11:35:20 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 18, 2021, 11:27:37 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2021, 11:04:08 AM
The Indian variant is more transmissible there no evidence to suggest it more lethal. The vaccines work against it. Most people in hospital in England are entitled to the vaccine and choose not to get it.

Get vaccinated and this all goes away.

Interesting the vaccine up take is less in poorer areas and areas with poorer educational outcomes.

Don't be so quick to put it to education.

Going on what I deal with at home here, most of these people are pissed off with the Govt for their circumstances - they have very little by way of F-You to the powers that be. This is one they seem to have weaponised.

Well if they think not taking the vaccine is a F you to the government then education would certainly play a part in thinking that was the way to go about it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 18, 2021, 12:02:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2021, 11:31:35 AM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 18, 2021, 11:27:37 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 18, 2021, 11:04:08 AM
The Indian variant is more transmissible there no evidence to suggest it more lethal. The vaccines work against it. Most people in hospital in England are entitled to the vaccine and choose not to get it.

Get vaccinated and this all goes away.

Interesting the vaccine up take is less in poorer areas and areas with poorer educational outcomes.

Don't be so quick to put it to education.

Going on what I deal with at home here, most of these people are pissed off with the Govt for their circumstances - they have very little by way of F-You to the powers that be. This is one they seem to have weaponised.

Putting their lives at risk to say f**k you to the government? That is certainly not an smart thing to do.

Educated enough to know it causes a headache though.

This is what happens when nobody cares about certain segments of the population for X amount of years. Their votes are largely irrelevant, so to speak.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 18, 2021, 12:06:33 PM
Those votes have got the tories over the line quite a bit recently.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 18, 2021, 04:12:21 PM
https://www.rt.com/news/523566-vaccine-side-effects-sweden-astrazeneca/

An official tally of suspected side effects resulting from Covid vaccination in Sweden has surpassed 30,000, with the majority of cases occurring in people inoculated with AstraZeneca's shot.
According to the Swedish Medical Products Agency, as of last week, the Scandinavian nation had received 31,844 reports of adverse reactions linked to the rollout of Covid-19 vaccines. Sweden is currently offering three variants of the drug. There are currently 2,103 reports of side effects from the Moderna shot, while the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine has been associated with 9,117 health issues. But the number of suspected adverse reactions from the two shots seems relatively small when compared to the 19,961 reports linked to AstraZeneca's Vaxzevria.

The most common side effects for all three drugs were fever and headache. Other reported adverse reactions included nausea, joint pain, and dizziness.

Notably, the AstraZeneca shot only accounts for about 26% of the roughly 2.7 million vaccines that have been administered so far in Sweden, but makes up around 63% of the side effects reports.

Of the nearly 32,000 reports, 663 cases have been registered where it's unclear which vaccine was administered. Two-thirds of the reports have been submitted by the general public. The agency cautioned that individual reports do not necessarily demonstrate a correlation between the medical episode and the vaccine.

Ebba Hallberg, an official with the Medical Products Agency, told Swedish media that it was unusual to receive so many reports of side effects, but noted that the figure was likely high because of public focus on the new vaccines. Healthcare providers are likely only reporting more "serious" side effects, the official theorized. Hallberg also said that it was possible that AstraZeneca was overrepresented in the data because the shot was given to many young people and healthcare workers, who are more tech-savvy and would therefore be more likely to report an issue.

According to one Swedish outlet, the agency has received more reports of suspected side effects over the past several months than it typically does over four years.

In March, Sweden was one of several nations to temporarily suspend the use of the AstraZeneca jab, following reports of abnormal blood clotting in recipients. AstraZeneca, as well as the European Medicines Agency, have insisted that the vaccine is safe after it came under scrutiny.


Since then, new reports have linked the drug to severe medical episodes, and even death. Earlier this month, a 35-year-old female medical worker in Vietnam died from anaphylaxis after being injected with the jab, in what has been described as a "very rare" case of adverse reaction to the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 18, 2021, 05:15:37 PM
Seems like the majority of people in hospital in Bolton with the Indian variant had the option of the vaccine but didn't take it. Hopefully be a lesson for others.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 18, 2021, 07:04:53 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 18, 2021, 05:15:37 PM
Seems like the majority of people in hospital in Bolton with the Indian variant had the option of the vaccine but didn't take it. Hopefully be a lesson for others.

Read that, the numbers have dropped dramatically in terms of hospital admissions with people who have taken the vaccine also, you'd be a complete fool not to get vaccinated
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on May 18, 2021, 11:48:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 18, 2021, 04:12:21 PM
The most common side effects for all three drugs were fever and headache. Other reported adverse reactions included nausea, joint pain, and dizziness.
That report fails to mention an additional side-effect of the vaccine: Not dying.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 19, 2021, 12:38:23 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on May 18, 2021, 11:48:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 18, 2021, 04:12:21 PM
The most common side effects for all three drugs were fever and headache. Other reported adverse reactions included nausea, joint pain, and dizziness.
That report fails to mention an additional side-effect of the vaccine: Not dying.

I had a fever for a few hours and a headache. Big swinging mickey, I'd prefer that to the alternative.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on May 19, 2021, 12:57:51 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on May 18, 2021, 11:48:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 18, 2021, 04:12:21 PM
The most common side effects for all three drugs were fever and headache. Other reported adverse reactions included nausea, joint pain, and dizziness.
That report fails to mention an additional side-effect of the vaccine: Not dying.
f**king science. It's useless.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on May 19, 2021, 02:18:12 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on May 18, 2021, 11:48:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 18, 2021, 04:12:21 PM
The most common side effects for all three drugs were fever and headache. Other reported adverse reactions included nausea, joint pain, and dizziness.
That report fails to mention an additional side-effect of the vaccine: Not dying.

we don't know enough about the long term side effects yet.  It's quite possible that a large percentage of those vaccinated may die.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tubberman on May 19, 2021, 05:46:07 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 19, 2021, 02:18:12 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on May 18, 2021, 11:48:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 18, 2021, 04:12:21 PM
The most common side effects for all three drugs were fever and headache. Other reported adverse reactions included nausea, joint pain, and dizziness.
That report fails to mention an additional side-effect of the vaccine: Not dying.

we don't know enough about the long term side effects yet.  It's quite possible that a large percentage of those vaccinated may die.

I'd go as so far as to say 100% of people vaccinated will die.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TabClear on May 19, 2021, 07:22:15 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on May 19, 2021, 05:46:07 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 19, 2021, 02:18:12 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on May 18, 2021, 11:48:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 18, 2021, 04:12:21 PM
The most common side effects for all three drugs were fever and headache. Other reported adverse reactions included nausea, joint pain, and dizziness.
That report fails to mention an additional side-effect of the vaccine: Not dying.

we don't know enough about the long term side effects yet.  It's quite possible that a large percentage of those vaccinated may die.

I'd go as so far as to say 100% of people vaccinated will die.

;D ;D Careful now, there are a few people on here will be quoting you as a verified source
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 19, 2021, 07:50:20 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 19, 2021, 02:18:12 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on May 18, 2021, 11:48:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 18, 2021, 04:12:21 PM
The most common side effects for all three drugs were fever and headache. Other reported adverse reactions included nausea, joint pain, and dizziness.
That report fails to mention an additional side-effect of the vaccine: Not dying.

we don't know enough about the long term side effects yet.  It's quite possible that a large percentage of those vaccinated may die.

This is pure comedy genius, one of the best posts this board has ever seen...........unless you are serious?

In that case you really do need help - you have been completely brainwashed and that is quite sad
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on May 19, 2021, 08:13:22 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 19, 2021, 02:18:12 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on May 18, 2021, 11:48:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 18, 2021, 04:12:21 PM
The most common side effects for all three drugs were fever and headache. Other reported adverse reactions included nausea, joint pain, and dizziness.
That report fails to mention an additional side-effect of the vaccine: Not dying.

we don't know enough about the long term side effects yet.  It's quite possible that a large percentage of those vaccinated may die.

Where to start with this.

Apart from the obvious facepalm...

Could you tell us how much we know about the long term side effects of having had a bout of covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 19, 2021, 08:20:52 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on May 19, 2021, 05:46:07 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 19, 2021, 02:18:12 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on May 18, 2021, 11:48:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 18, 2021, 04:12:21 PM
The most common side effects for all three drugs were fever and headache. Other reported adverse reactions included nausea, joint pain, and dizziness.
That report fails to mention an additional side-effect of the vaccine: Not dying.

we don't know enough about the long term side effects yet.  It's quite possible that a large percentage of those vaccinated may die.

I'd go as so far as to say 100% of people vaccinated will die.

Very good Tubberman.  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on May 19, 2021, 08:51:56 AM
I see us 40+ year olds are able register now for a vaccine. About time!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on May 19, 2021, 08:53:27 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 19, 2021, 02:18:12 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on May 18, 2021, 11:48:46 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 18, 2021, 04:12:21 PM
The most common side effects for all three drugs were fever and headache. Other reported adverse reactions included nausea, joint pain, and dizziness.
That report fails to mention an additional side-effect of the vaccine: Not dying.

we don't know enough about the long term side effects yet.  It's quite possible that a large percentage of those vaccinated may die.

;D ;D ;D

Not sure if serious but hope for your own sake you aren't.

I'm sure some will be along shortly to agree with you with no tongue in cheek.

Some nonsense spouted above  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on May 19, 2021, 08:55:51 AM
Quote from: laoislad on May 19, 2021, 08:51:56 AM
I see us 40+ year olds are able register now for a vaccine. About time!

I great day for middle aged men and women.

I know they have days for registering at certain ages e.g. but does the portal along you to register now even if you 47? Heard someone say it'll open straight away for all 45-49 ages but they stagger it out as a request rather than a restriction on the portal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on May 19, 2021, 08:56:58 AM
Quote from: Louther on May 19, 2021, 08:55:51 AM
Quote from: laoislad on May 19, 2021, 08:51:56 AM
I see us 40+ year olds are able register now for a vaccine. About time!

I great day for middle aged men and women.

I know they have days for registering at certain ages e.g. but does the portal along you to register now even if you 47? Heard someone say it'll open straight away for all 45-49 ages but they stagger it out as a request rather than a restriction on the portal.
Oh I thought it was all 40+, I've a little bit of a wait so as I'm under 45.!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on May 19, 2021, 09:07:22 AM
Quote from: laoislad on May 19, 2021, 08:56:58 AM
Quote from: Louther on May 19, 2021, 08:55:51 AM
Quote from: laoislad on May 19, 2021, 08:51:56 AM
I see us 40+ year olds are able register now for a vaccine. About time!

I great day for middle aged men and women.

I know they have days for registering at certain ages e.g. but does the portal along you to register now even if you 47? Heard someone say it'll open straight away for all 45-49 ages but they stagger it out as a request rather than a restriction on the portal.
Oh I though it was all 40+, I've a little bit of a wait so as I'm under 45.!

I'd say next week be 40-44
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 09:15:55 AM
Ah ya.

Let's just ignore deaths and serious side effects associated with the vaccines as they don't suit the narrative.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/brisbane-teen-reportedly-develops-blood-clots-after-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-c-2868616

How many 18 year olds have died from Covid or being seriously impacted in Australia?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 09:19:06 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 09:15:55 AM
Ah ya.

Let's just ignore deaths and serious side effects associated with the vaccines as they don't suit the narrative.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/brisbane-teen-reportedly-develops-blood-clots-after-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-c-2868616

How many 18 year olds have died from Covid or being seriously impacted in Australia?

The correct answer to this is zero deaths in the 10-19 age group in Australia but an 18 year old girl who was fit and healthy at the time of her vaccine nearly died as a result.

https://www.health.gov.au/resources/covid-19-deaths-by-age-group-and-sex

But let's just ignore that fact as it doesn't suit the narrative.

For fit and healthy under 40s the vaccine seems to be completely negligible but let's have the zealots deny the same science they put up when it suits their narrative.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on May 19, 2021, 09:23:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 09:15:55 AM
Ah ya.

Let's just ignore deaths and serious side effects associated with the vaccines as they don't suit the narrative.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/brisbane-teen-reportedly-develops-blood-clots-after-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-c-2868616

How many 18 year olds have died from Covid or being seriously impacted in Australia?

There's also this:

https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/05/16/number-of-women-to-lose-their-unborn-child-after-having-the-covid-vaccine-increases-by-2000-in-just-fourteen-weeks/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 09:24:53 AM
Quote from: clarshack on May 19, 2021, 09:23:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 09:15:55 AM
Ah ya.

Let's just ignore deaths and serious side effects associated with the vaccines as they don't suit the narrative.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/brisbane-teen-reportedly-develops-blood-clots-after-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-c-2868616

How many 18 year olds have died from Covid or being seriously impacted in Australia?

There's also this:

https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/05/16/number-of-women-to-lose-their-unborn-child-after-having-the-covid-vaccine-increases-by-2000-in-just-fourteen-weeks/

That doesn't suits the narrative though.

The totalitarians aren't interested in anything that doesn't comply with their propaganda.

Vaccines have their uses for the vulnerable categories (the elderly and medically compromised), apart from that their effect is negligible at the very best and downright dangerous at the worst.

It's amazing how the convenience theorists are so close minded, hardly the characteristics of sensible and compassionate people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2021, 09:28:43 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 09:15:55 AM
Ah ya.

Let's just ignore deaths and serious side effects associated with the vaccines as they don't suit the narrative.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/brisbane-teen-reportedly-develops-blood-clots-after-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-c-2868616

How many 18 year olds have died from Covid or being seriously impacted in Australia?

Wife went to bed early with her second jab, I was on high alert, had to make dinner, dishes and put a wash on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on May 19, 2021, 09:29:03 AM
"Nearly died" - from that report she went to hospital and was sent home and 2 days later got x Ray that showed small blood clots on lungs.

Possibly linked to vaccine or possibly one of the 50 such reported cases on a daily basis that is reported in Australia. As per normal, they have confirmed a direct link to the vaccine. I'll let the scientists decide and follow their lead.

Australia have one of lowest death rates due to their severe early lockdown and border closures, so not surprised they had no deaths in 18 year olds.

Good to see zealots back in use.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 09:44:02 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2021, 09:28:43 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 09:15:55 AM
Ah ya.

Let's just ignore deaths and serious side effects associated with the vaccines as they don't suit the narrative.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/brisbane-teen-reportedly-develops-blood-clots-after-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-c-2868616

How many 18 year olds have died from Covid or being seriously impacted in Australia?

Ah sure fit and healthy people dying and getting serious side effects from the vaccine is all a big laugh.
Wife went to bed early with her second jab, I was on high alert, had to make dinner, dishes and put a wash on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2021, 09:53:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 09:44:02 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2021, 09:28:43 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 09:15:55 AM
Ah ya.

Let's just ignore deaths and serious side effects associated with the vaccines as they don't suit the narrative.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/brisbane-teen-reportedly-develops-blood-clots-after-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-c-2868616

How many 18 year olds have died from Covid or being seriously impacted in Australia?

Ah sure fit and healthy people dying and getting serious side effects from the vaccine is all a big laugh.
Wife went to bed early with her second jab, I was on high alert, had to make dinner, dishes and put a wash on

It's very simple, if you believe not taking the vaccine is safer than catching and passing on the virus to others then don't take it. But with that I'd prefer that you self isolate and avoid contact with others that are likely to have serious issues should they catch the virus.

I'd say with your personality self isolating is very easy, I doubt very much you are in contact, physically with anyone  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 09:59:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2021, 09:53:00 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 09:44:02 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2021, 09:28:43 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 09:15:55 AM
Ah ya.

Let's just ignore deaths and serious side effects associated with the vaccines as they don't suit the narrative.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/brisbane-teen-reportedly-develops-blood-clots-after-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-c-2868616

How many 18 year olds have died from Covid or being seriously impacted in Australia?

Ah sure fit and healthy people dying and getting serious side effects from the vaccine is all a big laugh.
Wife went to bed early with her second jab, I was on high alert, had to make dinner, dishes and put a wash on

It's very simple, if you believe not taking the vaccine is safer than catching and passing on the virus to others then don't take it. But with that I'd prefer that you self isolate and avoid contact with others that are likely to have serious issues should they catch the virus.

I'd say with your personality self isolating is very easy, I doubt very much you are in contact, physically with anyone  ;)

The vulnerable have been vaccinated for a number of months now and Covid deaths have fallen off a cliff.

The impact of it on under 40s is negligible at best and very dangerous at worst.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 19, 2021, 10:01:01 AM
1000 pages incoming
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on May 19, 2021, 10:06:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2021, 10:01:01 AM
1000 pages incoming

Nicely timed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 19, 2021, 11:32:24 AM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2021, 10:01:01 AM
1000 pages incoming
👏👏
Congrats!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 19, 2021, 11:56:50 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 09:24:53 AM

Vaccines have their uses for the vulnerable categories (the elderly and medically compromised), apart from that their effect is negligible at the very best and downright dangerous at the worst.


How many smallpox deaths this year? Are there many with polio in Tyrone. How many deaths from measles?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 12:11:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 19, 2021, 11:56:50 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 09:24:53 AM

Vaccines have their uses for the vulnerable categories (the elderly and medically compromised), apart from that their effect is negligible at the very best and downright dangerous at the worst.


How many smallpox deaths this year? Are there many with polio in Tyrone. How many deaths from measles?

That's hysterical.

You're really comparing the fatality of Covid to Smallpox?

If you are citing polio vaccines as a great win you might want to tell that to the hundreds of people left paralysed and other dead after getting them.

I think it's clear that you are trying to twist the narrative here.

The data overwhelmingly states that if you are fit, healthy and young Covid is of the most minimal threat to you, so I fail to see the upside of getting the vaccine when we have seen the amount of cases which have resulted in serious illness and deaths associated with the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 19, 2021, 12:26:10 PM
It's obvious that the people who are refusing the vaccine don't have a lot of intelligence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 12:31:50 PM
It's obvious that people who don't get the vaccine are confident enough to exercise their own judgement and not be coerced by what the mob demand they do.

Stoops generally wouldn't know what having a bit of backbone entails.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2021, 12:33:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 12:31:50 PM
It's obvious that people who don't get the vaccine are confident enough to exercise their own judgement and not be coerced by what the mob demand they do.

Stoops generally wouldn't know what having a bit of backbone entails.

What about the younger ones that have died or as in Bolton haven't had the vaccine and are in hospital because of the virus ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 12:42:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2021, 12:33:22 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 12:31:50 PM
It's obvious that people who don't get the vaccine are confident enough to exercise their own judgement and not be coerced by what the mob demand they do.

Stoops generally wouldn't know what having a bit of backbone entails.

What about the younger ones that have died or as in Bolton haven't had the vaccine and are in hospital because of the virus ?

What younger ones have died?

Let's look at the O6

61,500~ cases of under 40s getting Covid.
7 deaths.
A 0.000114% of dying from Covid if you are under 40 by those figures.

And that's before you even analyse the fact that over 90% of people who have died with Covid have had underlying health conditions.
The fact that a death is recorded as a Covid death if you tested positive within 14 days of dying, irrespective of whether or not Covid was the main factor in your death.
The fact that hospice deaths have been included in the Covid death figures.

So I would say Covid is as much a risk to the under 40s as getting behind the wheel of a car to make a 20 mile trip is.

What's the upside to an u40 getting a Covid vaccine?





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2021, 01:36:20 PM
I put in Bolton in my post, as an example of people who were entitled to have the vaccine refused it and are now suffering with it.

Again, don't get it I'm fine with that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on May 19, 2021, 01:42:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2021, 12:26:10 PM
It's obvious that the people who are refusing the vaccine don't have a lot of intelligence.

That kind of sh*te sickens me hole. I bet ya you're fierce intelligent - according to yourself ;D. Personally I will take it, for the simple reason I see it as the only viable solution out of the crisis, stop variants of potentially far worse strains developing.
I would not for one second look down at those who have educated themselves enough to make a clear decision (cost/benefit analysis) not to the the vaccine. I know plently of educated people who for their own good reason will not take the vaccine. The my body my choice pro abortion birgrade, suddenely have turned the opposite, this hyprosicy pisses me off too. My kids all under 15 won't be getting it.
Trailer a bit like Sid, you have little crediability here, have a read of your posts from earlier in this thread ffs. You disappeared for 6 months & thought you could re-invent yourself, maybe you read a chit load of books on everything & now you're an over night expert ;D Or maybe somebody else has taken over your account.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 19, 2021, 01:43:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 12:11:16 PM
You're really comparing the fatality of Covid to Smallpox?

If you are citing polio vaccines as a great win you might want to tell that to the hundreds of people left paralysed and other dead after getting them.

Quote

In my younger days I certainly knew people left paralysed after getting polio. I never knew anyone paralysed after the vaccine.

QuoteI think it's clear that you are trying to twist the narrative here.

I presume "twist the narrative" is Tyrone for "you are proving me wrong".

QuoteThe data overwhelmingly states that if you are fit, healthy and young Covid is of the most minimal threat to you, so I fail to see the upside of getting the vaccine when we have seen the amount of cases which have resulted in serious illness and deaths associated with the vaccine.

We have seen feck all cases of illness with the vaccine considering that hundreds of millions of them have been used. More people fell down the stairs, should we ban stairs?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TabClear on May 19, 2021, 02:03:10 PM
Quote from: Rudi on May 19, 2021, 01:42:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2021, 12:26:10 PM
It's obvious that the people who are refusing the vaccine don't have a lot of intelligence.

That kind of sh*te sickens me hole. I bet ya you're fierce intelligent - according to yourself ;D. Personally I will take it, for the simple reason I see it as the only viable solution out of the crisis, stop variants of potentially far worse strains developing.
I would not for one second look down at those who have educated themselves enough to make a clear decision (cost/benefit analysis) not to the the vaccine. I know plently of educated people who for their own good reason will not take the vaccine. The my body my choice pro abortion birgrade, suddenely have turned the opposite, this hyprosicy pisses me off too. My kids all under 15 won't be getting it.
Trailer a bit like Sid, you have little crediability here, have a read of your posts from earlier in this thread ffs. You disappeared for 6 months & thought you could re-invent yourself, maybe you read a chit load of books on everything & now you're an over night expert ;D Or maybe somebody else has taken over your account.

That's the key for me. I am sceptical about the stats that are thrown about like a 20 year old has a x% chance of dying from Covid but a y% chance of developing a blood clot from the vaccine etc so why should they get the vaccine?. Most of the stats I have seen quoted from people against the vaccine only take into account mortality and not potential longterm issues which I suspect would significantly change the outcome if you were able to include them. If you take society as a whole then it clearly is beneficial to have as many people vaccinated as possible as it reduces transmission and the chances that a  new, deadlier variant comes along that impacts everyone.

All hypothetical but is it reasonable that a small proportion of people (say the 20 year olds) are significantly increasing the chances that a new, more deadly strain develops because they are ensuring the virus lives on by their increased transmission rates?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on May 19, 2021, 02:28:49 PM
Quote from: TabClear on May 19, 2021, 02:03:10 PM
Quote from: Rudi on May 19, 2021, 01:42:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2021, 12:26:10 PM
It's obvious that the people who are refusing the vaccine don't have a lot of intelligence.

That kind of sh*te sickens me hole. I bet ya you're fierce intelligent - according to yourself ;D. Personally I will take it, for the simple reason I see it as the only viable solution out of the crisis, stop variants of potentially far worse strains developing.
I would not for one second look down at those who have educated themselves enough to make a clear decision (cost/benefit analysis) not to the the vaccine. I know plently of educated people who for their own good reason will not take the vaccine. The my body my choice pro abortion birgrade, suddenely have turned the opposite, this hyprosicy pisses me off too. My kids all under 15 won't be getting it.
Trailer a bit like Sid, you have little crediability here, have a read of your posts from earlier in this thread ffs. You disappeared for 6 months & thought you could re-invent yourself, maybe you read a chit load of books on everything & now you're an over night expert ;D Or maybe somebody else has taken over your account.

That's the key for me. I am sceptical about the stats that are thrown about like a 20 year old has a x% chance of dying from Covid but a y% chance of developing a blood clot from the vaccine etc so why should they get the vaccine?. Most of the stats I have seen quoted from people against the vaccine only take into account mortality and not potential longterm issues which I suspect would significantly change the outcome if you were able to include them. If you take society as a whole then it clearly is beneficial to have as many people vaccinated as possible as it reduces transmission and the chances that a  new, deadlier variant comes along that impacts everyone.

All hypothetical but is it reasonable that a small proportion of people (say the 20 year olds) are significantly increasing the chances that a new, more deadly strain develops because they are ensuring the virus lives on by their increased transmission rates?

A number of people in the 18-30 age group that I have spoken to have said they have no need to take it.

First question I ask before getting into a debate is what happens if you cant get to Ibiza (for example) this year without it - 'f**k that, I will get it then' is the most common response.

Many, that I have spoken to, who are refusing it are just doing so without any particular reason - not because they have educated themselves.

And once it impacts their party holiday then they will be first in queue to get the jabs.

Other people who say they arent getting it because Covid wont impact them are forgetting the impacts of Long Covid (which has been proven), variants as well as increasing the risk for their loved ones
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 19, 2021, 02:32:28 PM
Some people don't take take it because of lack of education, but mostly they are just selfish.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: TabClear on May 19, 2021, 02:03:10 PM
Quote from: Rudi on May 19, 2021, 01:42:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2021, 12:26:10 PM
It's obvious that the people who are refusing the vaccine don't have a lot of intelligence.

That kind of sh*te sickens me hole. I bet ya you're fierce intelligent - according to yourself ;D. Personally I will take it, for the simple reason I see it as the only viable solution out of the crisis, stop variants of potentially far worse strains developing.
I would not for one second look down at those who have educated themselves enough to make a clear decision (cost/benefit analysis) not to the the vaccine. I know plently of educated people who for their own good reason will not take the vaccine. The my body my choice pro abortion birgrade, suddenely have turned the opposite, this hyprosicy pisses me off too. My kids all under 15 won't be getting it.
Trailer a bit like Sid, you have little crediability here, have a read of your posts from earlier in this thread ffs. You disappeared for 6 months & thought you could re-invent yourself, maybe you read a chit load of books on everything & now you're an over night expert ;D Or maybe somebody else has taken over your account.

That's the key for me. I am sceptical about the stats that are thrown about like a 20 year old has a x% chance of dying from Covid but a y% chance of developing a blood clot from the vaccine etc so why should they get the vaccine?. Most of the stats I have seen quoted from people against the vaccine only take into account mortality and not potential longterm issues which I suspect would significantly change the outcome if you were able to include them. If you take society as a whole then it clearly is beneficial to have as many people vaccinated as possible as it reduces transmission and the chances that a  new, deadlier variant comes along that impacts everyone.

All hypothetical but is it reasonable that a small proportion of people (say the 20 year olds) are significantly increasing the chances that a new, more deadly strain develops because they are ensuring the virus lives on by their increased transmission rates?

What about the long term effects of the vaccine?

Long term effects of Covid and long term effects of vaccines cancel each other out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TabClear on May 19, 2021, 03:00:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: TabClear on May 19, 2021, 02:03:10 PM
Quote from: Rudi on May 19, 2021, 01:42:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2021, 12:26:10 PM
It's obvious that the people who are refusing the vaccine don't have a lot of intelligence.

That kind of sh*te sickens me hole. I bet ya you're fierce intelligent - according to yourself ;D. Personally I will take it, for the simple reason I see it as the only viable solution out of the crisis, stop variants of potentially far worse strains developing.
I would not for one second look down at those who have educated themselves enough to make a clear decision (cost/benefit analysis) not to the the vaccine. I know plently of educated people who for their own good reason will not take the vaccine. The my body my choice pro abortion birgrade, suddenely have turned the opposite, this hyprosicy pisses me off too. My kids all under 15 won't be getting it.
Trailer a bit like Sid, you have little crediability here, have a read of your posts from earlier in this thread ffs. You disappeared for 6 months & thought you could re-invent yourself, maybe you read a chit load of books on everything & now you're an over night expert ;D Or maybe somebody else has taken over your account.

That's the key for me. I am sceptical about the stats that are thrown about like a 20 year old has a x% chance of dying from Covid but a y% chance of developing a blood clot from the vaccine etc so why should they get the vaccine?. Most of the stats I have seen quoted from people against the vaccine only take into account mortality and not potential longterm issues which I suspect would significantly change the outcome if you were able to include them. If you take society as a whole then it clearly is beneficial to have as many people vaccinated as possible as it reduces transmission and the chances that a  new, deadlier variant comes along that impacts everyone.

All hypothetical but is it reasonable that a small proportion of people (say the 20 year olds) are significantly increasing the chances that a new, more deadly strain develops because they are ensuring the virus lives on by their increased transmission rates?

What about the long term effects of the vaccine?

Long term effects of Covid and long term effects of vaccines cancel each other out.

Just out of curiosity what are you basing that statement on? I dont agree with your arguments on vaccine and as I have said previously I believe that it is a selfish approach to remain unvaccinated because of a person's individual demographic at a point in time there "might" be a (very) marginally lower chance of health problems from Covid than from the vaccine based on current data. (Although as I say I am sceptical about this). Given that these risks are so small anyway I think it is absolutely the wrong approach  but people have a right to be selfish so I am not getting into that.

However, to the best of my knowledge there is no data about the longterm effect of the vaccine so what is that sweeping statement based on?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 19, 2021, 03:12:17 PM
Bolton's vaccine rollout average is on par with the rest of the UK. New case rise there are more prevalent in the under 30's. Tories peddling the myth that no-one is taking the vaccine there. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 19, 2021, 03:15:20 PM
It's like the virus is spreading because people are not following the rules. Government / media always need someone to blame.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 19, 2021, 04:23:05 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 19, 2021, 03:12:17 PM
Bolton's vaccine rollout average is on par with the rest of the UK. New case rise there are more prevalent in the under 30's. Tories peddling the myth that no-one is taking the vaccine there.
The ethnic make up of Bolton and large areas of NW England are the issue, plane loads from India and the surrounding areas landed in the UK and a huge proportion have travelled on to these hotspot areas. The Tories are arse covering because of the delay in designating India a Red list country and it having a direct knock on effect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 19, 2021, 08:28:15 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 19, 2021, 04:23:05 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 19, 2021, 03:12:17 PM
Bolton's vaccine rollout average is on par with the rest of the UK. New case rise there are more prevalent in the under 30's. Tories peddling the myth that no-one is taking the vaccine there.
The ethnic make up of Bolton and large areas of NW England are the issue, plane loads from India and the surrounding areas landed in the UK and a huge proportion have travelled on to these hotspot areas. The Tories are arse covering because of the delay in designating India a Red list country and it having a direct knock on effect.
Plain to see but people in the public eye are too afraid to comment on it as they'll be accused of racism.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 07:20:19 AM
Quote from: TabClear on May 19, 2021, 03:00:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: TabClear on May 19, 2021, 02:03:10 PM
Quote from: Rudi on May 19, 2021, 01:42:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2021, 12:26:10 PM
It's obvious that the people who are refusing the vaccine don't have a lot of intelligence.

That kind of sh*te sickens me hole. I bet ya you're fierce intelligent - according to yourself ;D. Personally I will take it, for the simple reason I see it as the only viable solution out of the crisis, stop variants of potentially far worse strains developing.
I would not for one second look down at those who have educated themselves enough to make a clear decision (cost/benefit analysis) not to the the vaccine. I know plently of educated people who for their own good reason will not take the vaccine. The my body my choice pro abortion birgrade, suddenely have turned the opposite, this hyprosicy pisses me off too. My kids all under 15 won't be getting it.
Trailer a bit like Sid, you have little crediability here, have a read of your posts from earlier in this thread ffs. You disappeared for 6 months & thought you could re-invent yourself, maybe you read a chit load of books on everything & now you're an over night expert ;D Or maybe somebody else has taken over your account.

That's the key for me. I am sceptical about the stats that are thrown about like a 20 year old has a x% chance of dying from Covid but a y% chance of developing a blood clot from the vaccine etc so why should they get the vaccine?. Most of the stats I have seen quoted from people against the vaccine only take into account mortality and not potential longterm issues which I suspect would significantly change the outcome if you were able to include them. If you take society as a whole then it clearly is beneficial to have as many people vaccinated as possible as it reduces transmission and the chances that a  new, deadlier variant comes along that impacts everyone.

All hypothetical but is it reasonable that a small proportion of people (say the 20 year olds) are significantly increasing the chances that a new, more deadly strain develops because they are ensuring the virus lives on by their increased transmission rates?

What about the long term effects of the vaccine?

Long term effects of Covid and long term effects of vaccines cancel each other out.

Just out of curiosity what are you basing that statement on? I dont agree with your arguments on vaccine and as I have said previously I believe that it is a selfish approach to remain unvaccinated because of a person's individual demographic at a point in time there "might" be a (very) marginally lower chance of health problems from Covid than from the vaccine based on current data. (Although as I say I am sceptical about this). Given that these risks are so small anyway I think it is absolutely the wrong approach  but people have a right to be selfish so I am not getting into that.

However, to the best of my knowledge there is no data about the longterm effect of the vaccine so what is that sweeping statement based on?

What do we know about long term effects of the vaccine? Nothing.

What do we know about long term effects of Covid. Not a lot.

But it suits some people's narratives go cite one as a reason and dismiss the other. And it's usually the pro-vaxx zealots who demand people get it and want everyone who doesn't shamed or coerced.

It's a personal choice. When you see a few eejits like Trailer calling people uneducated because they don't see an upside into getting it and wanting sanctions put on them for exercising their own decisions then IMO it's people like him who are not only uneducated but dangerous. 90% of people who are getting the vaccine or doing so because they are being told to or being coerced into it.

I look at it from the point of view, which is backed up by statistical data, Covid is not a threat to my demograph. There's more chance of me sitting into my car today, driving 20 miles and dying or getting seriously injured than there is of getting Covid and dying of getting seriously injured.

I wonder do these same zealots who demand people get the vaccine, those who vilify, shame and insult those who choose not to get the flu jab every year or are they just moronic hypocrites. It's people like these who are a fickle mob and no doubt would have been front and centre when Hitler was whipping up Nazi Germany.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TabClear on May 20, 2021, 08:10:51 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 07:20:19 AM
Quote from: TabClear on May 19, 2021, 03:00:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: TabClear on May 19, 2021, 02:03:10 PM
Quote from: Rudi on May 19, 2021, 01:42:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2021, 12:26:10 PM
It's obvious that the people who are refusing the vaccine don't have a lot of intelligence.

That kind of sh*te sickens me hole. I bet ya you're fierce intelligent - according to yourself ;D. Personally I will take it, for the simple reason I see it as the only viable solution out of the crisis, stop variants of potentially far worse strains developing.
I would not for one second look down at those who have educated themselves enough to make a clear decision (cost/benefit analysis) not to the the vaccine. I know plently of educated people who for their own good reason will not take the vaccine. The my body my choice pro abortion birgrade, suddenely have turned the opposite, this hyprosicy pisses me off too. My kids all under 15 won't be getting it.
Trailer a bit like Sid, you have little crediability here, have a read of your posts from earlier in this thread ffs. You disappeared for 6 months & thought you could re-invent yourself, maybe you read a chit load of books on everything & now you're an over night expert ;D Or maybe somebody else has taken over your account.

That's the key for me. I am sceptical about the stats that are thrown about like a 20 year old has a x% chance of dying from Covid but a y% chance of developing a blood clot from the vaccine etc so why should they get the vaccine?. Most of the stats I have seen quoted from people against the vaccine only take into account mortality and not potential longterm issues which I suspect would significantly change the outcome if you were able to include them. If you take society as a whole then it clearly is beneficial to have as many people vaccinated as possible as it reduces transmission and the chances that a  new, deadlier variant comes along that impacts everyone.

All hypothetical but is it reasonable that a small proportion of people (say the 20 year olds) are significantly increasing the chances that a new, more deadly strain develops because they are ensuring the virus lives on by their increased transmission rates?

What about the long term effects of the vaccine?

Long term effects of Covid and long term effects of vaccines cancel each other out.

Just out of curiosity what are you basing that statement on? I dont agree with your arguments on vaccine and as I have said previously I believe that it is a selfish approach to remain unvaccinated because of a person's individual demographic at a point in time there "might" be a (very) marginally lower chance of health problems from Covid than from the vaccine based on current data. (Although as I say I am sceptical about this). Given that these risks are so small anyway I think it is absolutely the wrong approach  but people have a right to be selfish so I am not getting into that.

However, to the best of my knowledge there is no data about the longterm effect of the vaccine so what is that sweeping statement based on?

What do we know about long term effects of the vaccine? Nothing.

What do we know about long term effects of Covid. Not a lot.

But it suits some people's narratives go cite one as a reason and dismiss the other. And it's usually the pro-vaxx zealots who demand people get it and want everyone who doesn't shamed or coerced.

It's a personal choice. When you see a few eejits like Trailer calling people uneducated because they don't see an upside into getting it and wanting sanctions put on them for exercising their own decisions then IMO it's people like him who are not only uneducated but dangerous. 90% of people who are getting the vaccine or doing so because they are being told to or being coerced into it.

I look at it from the point of view, which is backed up by statistical data, Covid is not a threat to my demograph. There's more chance of me sitting into my car today, driving 20 miles and dying or getting seriously injured than there is of getting Covid and dying of getting seriously injured.

I wonder do these same zealots who demand people get the vaccine, those who vilify, shame and insult those who choose not to get the flu jab every year or are they just moronic hypocrites. It's people like these who are a fickle mob and no doubt would have been front and centre when Hitler was whipping up Nazi Germany.

The first two parts I have highlighted contradict your original sweeping statement as there is evidence of  Long term Covid health problems while you are just making an assumption that there will be long term problems with the vaccine in the future. You may be proved right (personally I doubt it) but my point is you cannot make that statement as it sits now. You claim later in your paragraph you are making a call on whether to have the vaccine based on statistical data which may be fair enough (depending what statistics you choose to use) but blatantly apply your own subjective opinion rather than data when you claimed

Long term effects of Covid and long term effects of vaccines cancel each other out.
[/quote]

Lastly, as I pointed out above, your demographic may be very marginally at less risk from Covid  compared to the the vaccine. Again, I would question what statistics you use but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. However, in my view (and I am sure I could find the statistics to back this up if I choose to) society as a whole  is better off the more people are vaccinated in terms of lower transmission, lower hospitalisation rates, greater freedoms and crucially less chance for a variant to develop that either changes the numbers for your demographic in terms of mortality etc or more worryingly is resistant to the vaccine as a whole. Rather confusingly, while you seem concerned for the potential longterm future issues with the vaccine to the extent you make a subjective statement on it but you do not seem to share the same concern for potential variants developing (for which there is statistical evidence for) and which have the potential to set us back months in combatting Covid and have the  potential for unnecessary deaths.

My opinion is that people like you who dont get the vaccine based on a minute delta between the chances of dying from Covid or reacting badly to the vaccine are absolutely being selfish and  its two fingers up to the rest of society. You use the analogy of driving in the car being riskier than developing Covid but obviously you have no issue in driving because it suits you. I would guess the same applies to getting the vaccine in the sense it is less risky than driving your 20 miles but as far as this is concerned you have deemed vaccination too risky even though it will benefit others. Absolutely your choice but I assume you can see that is not exactly a selfless act.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 08:44:45 AM
Quote from: TabClear on May 20, 2021, 08:10:51 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 07:20:19 AM
Quote from: TabClear on May 19, 2021, 03:00:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: TabClear on May 19, 2021, 02:03:10 PM
Quote from: Rudi on May 19, 2021, 01:42:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2021, 12:26:10 PM
It's obvious that the people who are refusing the vaccine don't have a lot of intelligence.

That kind of sh*te sickens me hole. I bet ya you're fierce intelligent - according to yourself ;D. Personally I will take it, for the simple reason I see it as the only viable solution out of the crisis, stop variants of potentially far worse strains developing.
I would not for one second look down at those who have educated themselves enough to make a clear decision (cost/benefit analysis) not to the the vaccine. I know plently of educated people who for their own good reason will not take the vaccine. The my body my choice pro abortion birgrade, suddenely have turned the opposite, this hyprosicy pisses me off too. My kids all under 15 won't be getting it.
Trailer a bit like Sid, you have little crediability here, have a read of your posts from earlier in this thread ffs. You disappeared for 6 months & thought you could re-invent yourself, maybe you read a chit load of books on everything & now you're an over night expert ;D Or maybe somebody else has taken over your account.

That's the key for me. I am sceptical about the stats that are thrown about like a 20 year old has a x% chance of dying from Covid but a y% chance of developing a blood clot from the vaccine etc so why should they get the vaccine?. Most of the stats I have seen quoted from people against the vaccine only take into account mortality and not potential longterm issues which I suspect would significantly change the outcome if you were able to include them. If you take society as a whole then it clearly is beneficial to have as many people vaccinated as possible as it reduces transmission and the chances that a  new, deadlier variant comes along that impacts everyone.

All hypothetical but is it reasonable that a small proportion of people (say the 20 year olds) are significantly increasing the chances that a new, more deadly strain develops because they are ensuring the virus lives on by their increased transmission rates?

What about the long term effects of the vaccine?

Long term effects of Covid and long term effects of vaccines cancel each other out.

Just out of curiosity what are you basing that statement on? I dont agree with your arguments on vaccine and as I have said previously I believe that it is a selfish approach to remain unvaccinated because of a person's individual demographic at a point in time there "might" be a (very) marginally lower chance of health problems from Covid than from the vaccine based on current data. (Although as I say I am sceptical about this). Given that these risks are so small anyway I think it is absolutely the wrong approach  but people have a right to be selfish so I am not getting into that.

However, to the best of my knowledge there is no data about the longterm effect of the vaccine so what is that sweeping statement based on?

What do we know about long term effects of the vaccine? Nothing.

What do we know about long term effects of Covid. Not a lot.

But it suits some people's narratives go cite one as a reason and dismiss the other. And it's usually the pro-vaxx zealots who demand people get it and want everyone who doesn't shamed or coerced.

It's a personal choice. When you see a few eejits like Trailer calling people uneducated because they don't see an upside into getting it and wanting sanctions put on them for exercising their own decisions then IMO it's people like him who are not only uneducated but dangerous. 90% of people who are getting the vaccine or doing so because they are being told to or being coerced into it.

I look at it from the point of view, which is backed up by statistical data, Covid is not a threat to my demograph. There's more chance of me sitting into my car today, driving 20 miles and dying or getting seriously injured than there is of getting Covid and dying of getting seriously injured.

I wonder do these same zealots who demand people get the vaccine, those who vilify, shame and insult those who choose not to get the flu jab every year or are they just moronic hypocrites. It's people like these who are a fickle mob and no doubt would have been front and centre when Hitler was whipping up Nazi Germany.

The first two parts I have highlighted contradict your original sweeping statement as there is evidence of  Long term Covid health problems while you are just making an assumption that there will be long term problems with the vaccine in the future. You may be proved right (personally I doubt it) but my point is you cannot make that statement as it sits now. You claim later in your paragraph you are making a call on whether to have the vaccine based on statistical data which may be fair enough (depending what statistics you choose to use) but blatantly apply your own subjective opinion rather than data when you claimed

Long term effects of Covid and long term effects of vaccines cancel each other out.

Lastly, as I pointed out above, your demographic may be very marginally at less risk from Covid  compared to the the vaccine. Again, I would question what statistics you use but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. However, in my view (and I am sure I could find the statistics to back this up if I choose to) society as a whole  is better off the more people are vaccinated in terms of lower transmission, lower hospitalisation rates, greater freedoms and crucially less chance for a variant to develop that either changes the numbers for your demographic in terms of mortality etc or more worryingly is resistant to the vaccine as a whole. Rather confusingly, while you seem concerned for the potential longterm future issues with the vaccine to the extent you make a subjective statement on it but you do not seem to share the same concern for potential variants developing (for which there is statistical evidence for) and which have the potential to set us back months in combatting Covid and have the  potential for unnecessary deaths.

My opinion is that people like you who dont get the vaccine based on a minute delta between the chances of dying from Covid or reacting badly to the vaccine are absolutely being selfish and  its two fingers up to the rest of society. You use the analogy of driving in the car being riskier than developing Covid but obviously you have no issue in driving because it suits you. I would guess the same applies to getting the vaccine in the sense it is less risky than driving your 20 miles but as far as this is concerned you have deemed vaccination too risky even though it will benefit others. Absolutely your choice but I assume you can see that is not exactly a selfless act.
[/quote]

Clearly they do not contradict each other.

Anyone who cites one and dismisses the other is being a hypocrite.

Both are unknown, the difference is you choose to get the vaccine, you may never get Covid.

The statistics I cite are there on the Covid dashboard. 7 deaths in around 65k cases in the u40s.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TabClear on May 20, 2021, 09:24:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 08:44:45 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 08:44:45 AM
Quote from: TabClear on May 20, 2021, 08:10:51 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 07:20:19 AM
Quote from: TabClear on May 19, 2021, 03:00:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: TabClear on May 19, 2021, 02:03:10 PM
Quote from: Rudi on May 19, 2021, 01:42:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2021, 12:26:10 PM
It's obvious that the people who are refusing the vaccine don't have a lot of intelligence.

That kind of sh*te sickens me hole. I bet ya you're fierce intelligent - according to yourself ;D. Personally I will take it, for the simple reason I see it as the only viable solution out of the crisis, stop variants of potentially far worse strains developing.
I would not for one second look down at those who have educated themselves enough to make a clear decision (cost/benefit analysis) not to the the vaccine. I know plently of educated people who for their own good reason will not take the vaccine. The my body my choice pro abortion birgrade, suddenely have turned the opposite, this hyprosicy pisses me off too. My kids all under 15 won't be getting it.
Trailer a bit like Sid, you have little crediability here, have a read of your posts from earlier in this thread ffs. You disappeared for 6 months & thought you could re-invent yourself, maybe you read a chit load of books on everything & now you're an over night expert ;D Or maybe somebody else has taken over your account.

That's the key for me. I am sceptical about the stats that are thrown about like a 20 year old has a x% chance of dying from Covid but a y% chance of developing a blood clot from the vaccine etc so why should they get the vaccine?. Most of the stats I have seen quoted from people against the vaccine only take into account mortality and not potential longterm issues which I suspect would significantly change the outcome if you were able to include them. If you take society as a whole then it clearly is beneficial to have as many people vaccinated as possible as it reduces transmission and the chances that a  new, deadlier variant comes along that impacts everyone.

All hypothetical but is it reasonable that a small proportion of people (say the 20 year olds) are significantly increasing the chances that a new, more deadly strain develops because they are ensuring the virus lives on by their increased transmission rates?

What about the long term effects of the vaccine?

Long term effects of Covid and long term effects of vaccines cancel each other out.

Just out of curiosity what are you basing that statement on? I dont agree with your arguments on vaccine and as I have said previously I believe that it is a selfish approach to remain unvaccinated because of a person's individual demographic at a point in time there "might" be a (very) marginally lower chance of health problems from Covid than from the vaccine based on current data. (Although as I say I am sceptical about this). Given that these risks are so small anyway I think it is absolutely the wrong approach  but people have a right to be selfish so I am not getting into that.

However, to the best of my knowledge there is no data about the longterm effect of the vaccine so what is that sweeping statement based on?

What do we know about long term effects of the vaccine? Nothing.

What do we know about long term effects of Covid. Not a lot.

But it suits some people's narratives go cite one as a reason and dismiss the other. And it's usually the pro-vaxx zealots who demand people get it and want everyone who doesn't shamed or coerced.

It's a personal choice. When you see a few eejits like Trailer calling people uneducated because they don't see an upside into getting it and wanting sanctions put on them for exercising their own decisions then IMO it's people like him who are not only uneducated but dangerous. 90% of people who are getting the vaccine or doing so because they are being told to or being coerced into it.

I look at it from the point of view, which is backed up by statistical data, Covid is not a threat to my demograph. There's more chance of me sitting into my car today, driving 20 miles and dying or getting seriously injured than there is of getting Covid and dying of getting seriously injured.

I wonder do these same zealots who demand people get the vaccine, those who vilify, shame and insult those who choose not to get the flu jab every year or are they just moronic hypocrites. It's people like these who are a fickle mob and no doubt would have been front and centre when Hitler was whipping up Nazi Germany.

The first two parts I have highlighted contradict your original sweeping statement as there is evidence of  Long term Covid health problems while you are just making an assumption that there will be long term problems with the vaccine in the future. You may be proved right (personally I doubt it) but my point is you cannot make that statement as it sits now. You claim later in your paragraph you are making a call on whether to have the vaccine based on statistical data which may be fair enough (depending what statistics you choose to use) but blatantly apply your own subjective opinion rather than data when you claimed

Long term effects of Covid and long term effects of vaccines cancel each other out.

Lastly, as I pointed out above, your demographic may be very marginally at less risk from Covid  compared to the the vaccine. Again, I would question what statistics you use but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. However, in my view (and I am sure I could find the statistics to back this up if I choose to) society as a whole  is better off the more people are vaccinated in terms of lower transmission, lower hospitalisation rates, greater freedoms and crucially less chance for a variant to develop that either changes the numbers for your demographic in terms of mortality etc or more worryingly is resistant to the vaccine as a whole. Rather confusingly, while you seem concerned for the potential longterm future issues with the vaccine to the extent you make a subjective statement on it but you do not seem to share the same concern for potential variants developing (for which there is statistical evidence for) and which have the potential to set us back months in combatting Covid and have the  potential for unnecessary deaths.

My opinion is that people like you who dont get the vaccine based on a minute delta between the chances of dying from Covid or reacting badly to the vaccine are absolutely being selfish and  its two fingers up to the rest of society. You use the analogy of driving in the car being riskier than developing Covid but obviously you have no issue in driving because it suits you. I would guess the same applies to getting the vaccine in the sense it is less risky than driving your 20 miles but as far as this is concerned you have deemed vaccination too risky even though it will benefit others. Absolutely your choice but I assume you can see that is not exactly a selfless act.
Clearly they do not contradict each other.

Anyone who cites one and dismisses the other is being a hypocrite.

Both are unknown, the difference is you choose to get the vaccine, you may never get Covid.

The statistics I cite are there on the Covid dashboard. 7 deaths in around 65k cases in the u40s.


I said they contradicted your statement that Long term effects of Covid and long term effects of vaccines cancel each other out.[/b], not that they contradicted each other. I am not sure if you are referring to me as citing them but for clarity I certainly did not cite one or the other apart from to say there is evidence of longterm effects of Covid which I think is well accepted. Obviously if you have anything to challenge that statement with please post it.

My point was that you made a sweeping statement about something and then one post later said that there was zero evidence to underpin said statement. That does not necessarily make it wrong as its impossible to prove at this point but I am sure if someone said All U25s who do not get vaccinated will develop a new strain of Covid within 1 year and 25% will die you would (quite reasonably ) be one of the first people calling them out on this. Much like your statement above, you could not disprove it but there is zero evidence to back it up and its misleading.

I'm not getting into an argument about the rights and wrongs of whether people should get the vaccine or not. I think my position is pretty clear on this. While I respect people's right to not get it, I think it is a selfish act and I do think that those people should accept that this decision may have consequences in terms of where they can travel to, socialise etc because there is evidence that these people present a greater risk to society as a whole than people who have been vaccinated.

You claim on multiple threads how people dont like your "debating" style and how you look to the statistics etc. If that is the case stick to the stats and stop making unsubstantiated statements that are at best unproven and a worst wholly inaccurate. I have absolutely no issue in you saying that you think history will prove that the longterm effects of the vaccine will cancel out the long term effect of covid and we can debate the merits of your opinion and why you think that. Just dont present is as a fact to challenge a point when its clearly not and then hold yourself up as  some great debater.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 10:09:05 AM
Quote from: TabClear on May 20, 2021, 09:24:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 08:44:45 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 08:44:45 AM
Quote from: TabClear on May 20, 2021, 08:10:51 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 07:20:19 AM
Quote from: TabClear on May 19, 2021, 03:00:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 19, 2021, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: TabClear on May 19, 2021, 02:03:10 PM
Quote from: Rudi on May 19, 2021, 01:42:32 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2021, 12:26:10 PM
It's obvious that the people who are refusing the vaccine don't have a lot of intelligence.

That kind of sh*te sickens me hole. I bet ya you're fierce intelligent - according to yourself ;D. Personally I will take it, for the simple reason I see it as the only viable solution out of the crisis, stop variants of potentially far worse strains developing.
I would not for one second look down at those who have educated themselves enough to make a clear decision (cost/benefit analysis) not to the the vaccine. I know plently of educated people who for their own good reason will not take the vaccine. The my body my choice pro abortion birgrade, suddenely have turned the opposite, this hyprosicy pisses me off too. My kids all under 15 won't be getting it.
Trailer a bit like Sid, you have little crediability here, have a read of your posts from earlier in this thread ffs. You disappeared for 6 months & thought you could re-invent yourself, maybe you read a chit load of books on everything & now you're an over night expert ;D Or maybe somebody else has taken over your account.

That's the key for me. I am sceptical about the stats that are thrown about like a 20 year old has a x% chance of dying from Covid but a y% chance of developing a blood clot from the vaccine etc so why should they get the vaccine?. Most of the stats I have seen quoted from people against the vaccine only take into account mortality and not potential longterm issues which I suspect would significantly change the outcome if you were able to include them. If you take society as a whole then it clearly is beneficial to have as many people vaccinated as possible as it reduces transmission and the chances that a  new, deadlier variant comes along that impacts everyone.

All hypothetical but is it reasonable that a small proportion of people (say the 20 year olds) are significantly increasing the chances that a new, more deadly strain develops because they are ensuring the virus lives on by their increased transmission rates?

What about the long term effects of the vaccine?

Long term effects of Covid and long term effects of vaccines cancel each other out.

Just out of curiosity what are you basing that statement on? I dont agree with your arguments on vaccine and as I have said previously I believe that it is a selfish approach to remain unvaccinated because of a person's individual demographic at a point in time there "might" be a (very) marginally lower chance of health problems from Covid than from the vaccine based on current data. (Although as I say I am sceptical about this). Given that these risks are so small anyway I think it is absolutely the wrong approach  but people have a right to be selfish so I am not getting into that.

However, to the best of my knowledge there is no data about the longterm effect of the vaccine so what is that sweeping statement based on?

What do we know about long term effects of the vaccine? Nothing.

What do we know about long term effects of Covid. Not a lot.

But it suits some people's narratives go cite one as a reason and dismiss the other. And it's usually the pro-vaxx zealots who demand people get it and want everyone who doesn't shamed or coerced.

It's a personal choice. When you see a few eejits like Trailer calling people uneducated because they don't see an upside into getting it and wanting sanctions put on them for exercising their own decisions then IMO it's people like him who are not only uneducated but dangerous. 90% of people who are getting the vaccine or doing so because they are being told to or being coerced into it.

I look at it from the point of view, which is backed up by statistical data, Covid is not a threat to my demograph. There's more chance of me sitting into my car today, driving 20 miles and dying or getting seriously injured than there is of getting Covid and dying of getting seriously injured.

I wonder do these same zealots who demand people get the vaccine, those who vilify, shame and insult those who choose not to get the flu jab every year or are they just moronic hypocrites. It's people like these who are a fickle mob and no doubt would have been front and centre when Hitler was whipping up Nazi Germany.

The first two parts I have highlighted contradict your original sweeping statement as there is evidence of  Long term Covid health problems while you are just making an assumption that there will be long term problems with the vaccine in the future. You may be proved right (personally I doubt it) but my point is you cannot make that statement as it sits now. You claim later in your paragraph you are making a call on whether to have the vaccine based on statistical data which may be fair enough (depending what statistics you choose to use) but blatantly apply your own subjective opinion rather than data when you claimed

Long term effects of Covid and long term effects of vaccines cancel each other out.

Lastly, as I pointed out above, your demographic may be very marginally at less risk from Covid  compared to the the vaccine. Again, I would question what statistics you use but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. However, in my view (and I am sure I could find the statistics to back this up if I choose to) society as a whole  is better off the more people are vaccinated in terms of lower transmission, lower hospitalisation rates, greater freedoms and crucially less chance for a variant to develop that either changes the numbers for your demographic in terms of mortality etc or more worryingly is resistant to the vaccine as a whole. Rather confusingly, while you seem concerned for the potential longterm future issues with the vaccine to the extent you make a subjective statement on it but you do not seem to share the same concern for potential variants developing (for which there is statistical evidence for) and which have the potential to set us back months in combatting Covid and have the  potential for unnecessary deaths.

My opinion is that people like you who dont get the vaccine based on a minute delta between the chances of dying from Covid or reacting badly to the vaccine are absolutely being selfish and  its two fingers up to the rest of society. You use the analogy of driving in the car being riskier than developing Covid but obviously you have no issue in driving because it suits you. I would guess the same applies to getting the vaccine in the sense it is less risky than driving your 20 miles but as far as this is concerned you have deemed vaccination too risky even though it will benefit others. Absolutely your choice but I assume you can see that is not exactly a selfless act.
Clearly they do not contradict each other.

Anyone who cites one and dismisses the other is being a hypocrite.

Both are unknown, the difference is you choose to get the vaccine, you may never get Covid.

The statistics I cite are there on the Covid dashboard. 7 deaths in around 65k cases in the u40s.


I said they contradicted your statement that Long term effects of Covid and long term effects of vaccines cancel each other out.[/b], not that they contradicted each other. I am not sure if you are referring to me as citing them but for clarity I certainly did not cite one or the other apart from to say there is evidence of longterm effects of Covid which I think is well accepted. Obviously if you have anything to challenge that statement with please post it.

My point was that you made a sweeping statement about something and then one post later said that there was zero evidence to underpin said statement. That does not necessarily make it wrong as its impossible to prove at this point but I am sure if someone said All U25s who do not get vaccinated will develop a new strain of Covid within 1 year and 25% will die you would (quite reasonably ) be one of the first people calling them out on this. Much like your statement above, you could not disprove it but there is zero evidence to back it up and its misleading.

I'm not getting into an argument about the rights and wrongs of whether people should get the vaccine or not. I think my position is pretty clear on this. While I respect people's right to not get it, I think it is a selfish act and I do think that those people should accept that this decision may have consequences in terms of where they can travel to, socialise etc because there is evidence that these people present a greater risk to society as a whole than people who have been vaccinated.

You claim on multiple threads how people dont like your "debating" style and how you look to the statistics etc. If that is the case stick to the stats and stop making unsubstantiated statements that are at best unproven and a worst wholly inaccurate. I have absolutely no issue in you saying that you think history will prove that the longterm effects of the vaccine will cancel out the long term effect of covid and we can debate the merits of your opinion and why you think that. Just dont present is as a fact to challenge a point when its clearly not and then hold yourself up as  some great debater.

And for the third time and hopefully it might get through this time.

An argument citing long term effects of Covid as a reason to get a vaccine is cancelled out by an argument of long term effects of the vaccine.

Plain English there, both are unknown at the minute, they cannot be quantified but if someone is citing the unknown long term effects of Covid as a reason to get a vaccine then it's a self-defeating argument as I can just as easily point to the unknown long term effects of the vaccine. And that's work both ways and if somebody wants to use one and dismiss the other then it's a clear sign of a completely biased agenda.

The only differentiation is that I may choose not to get the vaccine and never get Covid and never be open to potential long term impacts whereas if I do choose to get the vaccine I am opening up myself to potential long term impacts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 10:43:07 AM
But there is already evidence of Long Covid. Some pretty grim reading on the impacts of it on people. It's not theoretical. And it seems to be hitting the younger age groups as well.

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-05-20/long-covid-one-in-seven-younger-people-suffer-symptoms-up-to-six-months-after-catching-coronavirus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 10:52:37 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 10:43:07 AM
But there is already evidence of Long Covid. Some pretty grim reading on the impacts of it on people. It's not theoretical. And it seems to be hitting the younger age groups as well.

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-05-20/long-covid-one-in-seven-younger-people-suffer-symptoms-up-to-six-months-after-catching-coronavirus

That's not long term.

If you have had a proper flu in the past you will know that it takes months to get back to 100%.

Long Covid is a complete and utter joke and the oxegen a hypochondriac or a lazy person needs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on May 20, 2021, 11:19:33 AM
A family.member is a doctor and has worked with long covid patients. she was sceptical and there are people who didnt have covid claiming long covid but it is very real and will have long term impacts on previously healthy people, she has seen the impacts on people lungs, heart etc.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 11:29:04 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 10:52:37 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 10:43:07 AM
But there is already evidence of Long Covid. Some pretty grim reading on the impacts of it on people. It's not theoretical. And it seems to be hitting the younger age groups as well.

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-05-20/long-covid-one-in-seven-younger-people-suffer-symptoms-up-to-six-months-after-catching-coronavirus

That's not long term.

If you have had a proper flu in the past you will know that it takes months to get back to 100%.

Long Covid is a complete and utter joke and the oxegen a hypochondriac or a lazy person needs.

Just nonsense. Like all ailments there will be people taking the piss. But your clamour to play down covid is transparent.
There's data coming out linking long Covid with damage to organs. You don't believe in it.  That's fine. I just don't find that creditable at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on May 20, 2021, 11:56:04 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on May 20, 2021, 11:19:33 AM
A family.member is a doctor and has worked with long covid patients. she was sceptical and there are people who didnt have covid claiming long covid but it is very real and will have long term impacts on previously healthy people, she has seen the impacts on people lungs, heart etc.

I have a work colleague with underlying health issues who got covid. He has recovered from covid (having spent a few months in hospital), but has suffered non-reversible damage to his lungs that he will have to deal with for the rest for his life.

Comparing the long term effects of covid against flu is like comparing night against day
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 20, 2021, 12:00:54 PM
Covid could age you 10 years in terms of damage to parts of your body.

There is also the example of the 24 year old twins in India who died, I'm sure that that their familiy would like to hear Angelo's theories about young people being unaffected.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 20, 2021, 12:04:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 20, 2021, 12:00:54 PM
Covid could age you 10 years in terms of damage to parts of your body.

There is also the example of the 24 year old twins in India who died, I'm sure that that their familiy would like to hear Angelo's theories about young people being unaffected.

So can smoking, infact, I edited this bit, it's probably more than 10 years.

Yet there hasn't been one single message from our Govt(s) that maybe it's not a good idea to slowly kill ourselves in the midst of a pandemic, that you know, attacks the Respiratory system.

Why?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on May 20, 2021, 12:10:37 PM
https://rumble.com/vgzvh1-tucker-carlson-interviews-dr.-peter-mccullough-on-covid-worldwide-conspirac.html?fbclid=IwAR1XnHjjWyCdr9UU5o4jPonXE8SHKIijbgR17Nbkxwk9VdHbKyctEyxljzQ
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on May 20, 2021, 12:19:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 10:52:37 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 10:43:07 AM
But there is already evidence of Long Covid. Some pretty grim reading on the impacts of it on people. It's not theoretical. And it seems to be hitting the younger age groups as well.

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-05-20/long-covid-one-in-seven-younger-people-suffer-symptoms-up-to-six-months-after-catching-coronavirus

That's not long term.

If you have had a proper flu in the past you will know that it takes months to get back to 100%.

Long Covid is a complete and utter joke and the oxegen a hypochondriac or a lazy person needs.

How many months does it take to get back to 100% if you've suffered from non-reversible lung damage?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 12:19:32 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 20, 2021, 11:56:04 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on May 20, 2021, 11:19:33 AM
A family.member is a doctor and has worked with long covid patients. she was sceptical and there are people who didnt have covid claiming long covid but it is very real and will have long term impacts on previously healthy people, she has seen the impacts on people lungs, heart etc.

I have a work colleague with underlying health issues who got covid. He has recovered from covid (having spent a few months in hospital), but has suffered non-reversible damage to his lungs that he will have to deal with for the rest for his life.

Comparing the long term effects of covid against flu is like comparing night against day
Let's not underplay Flu either. It can have serious long term effects as well. Which is why people should be encouraged to take the flu vaccine as well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 01:20:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 20, 2021, 12:19:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 10:52:37 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 10:43:07 AM
But there is already evidence of Long Covid. Some pretty grim reading on the impacts of it on people. It's not theoretical. And it seems to be hitting the younger age groups as well.

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-05-20/long-covid-one-in-seven-younger-people-suffer-symptoms-up-to-six-months-after-catching-coronavirus

That's not long term.

If you have had a proper flu in the past you will know that it takes months to get back to 100%.

Long Covid is a complete and utter joke and the oxegen a hypochondriac or a lazy person needs.

How many months does it take to get back to 100% if you've suffered from non-reversible lung damage?

I was unaware Covid was the only thing that causes non-reversible lung damage.

Was also unaware how we suddenly have so many respiratory experts on the forum?

Or maybe we just have chaps like you speaking authoritatively on things they neither know about or understand?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 01:22:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 20, 2021, 12:00:54 PM
Covid could age you 10 years in terms of damage to parts of your body.

There is also the example of the 24 year old twins in India who died, I'm sure that that their familiy would like to hear Angelo's theories about young people being unaffected.

This is the disingenuous and purely speculative nonsense that has become par the course for the zealots on here.

Forget the truth, forge the facts, forget things we actually and just engage in hysterical and unproven speculation to pedal your agenda.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 20, 2021, 01:27:35 PM
QuoteLong term effects of Covid and long term effects of vaccines cancel each other out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 01:30:46 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 20, 2021, 01:27:35 PM
QuoteLong term effects of Covid and long term effects of vaccines cancel each other out.

They are both unknown.

I don't know how many times you have to be told that using them as an argument is self-defeating. I can repeat it over and over again but I can't do anymore if you're still struggling to accept something so basic and self-explanatory.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on May 20, 2021, 01:39:03 PM
long covid effects are not unknown. see my previous post.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 20, 2021, 01:41:06 PM
There's a poor girl who was meant to work with us is still down with it 8 months later - she's 21, fit, doesn't drink and doesn't smoke. Denying it exists is either just being argumentative or stupid tbh.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 01:45:56 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 01:30:46 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 20, 2021, 01:27:35 PM
QuoteLong term effects of Covid and long term effects of vaccines cancel each other out.

They are both unknown.

I don't know how many times you have to be told that using them as an argument is self-defeating. I can repeat it over and over again but I can't do anymore if you're still struggling to accept something so basic and self-explanatory.
Documented medical evidence of irreversible damage to organs is long term damage. Claiming it's not is just bizarre.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 01:58:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on May 20, 2021, 01:39:03 PM
long covid effects are not unknown. see my previous post.

They are unknown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on May 20, 2021, 01:59:27 PM
Some great pints, but you boys should know by now not to waste your time replying to the resident clown. Not one hoot does he give about anything you guys have to say, not one. The lack of self-awareness is staggering.

I'd say pretty much everyone now knows someone suffering from long covid. I've a v close friend currently dealing with long Covid specialists in the London centre. They are really really struggling.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 01:59:43 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 20, 2021, 01:41:06 PM
There's a poor girl who was meant to work with us is still down with it 8 months later - she's 21, fit, doesn't drink and doesn't smoke. Denying it exists is either just being argumentative or stupid tbh.

Denying it exists is being logical and rational. Something you wouldn't know about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 02:00:14 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 20, 2021, 01:59:27 PM
Some great pints, but you boys should know by now not to waste your time replying to the resident clown. Not one hoot does he give about anything you guys have to say, not one. The lack of self-awareness is staggering.

I'd say pretty much everyone now knows someone suffering from long covid. I've a v close friend currently dealing with long Covid specialists in the London centre. They are really really struggling.

I've got some magic beans I can sell you
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 20, 2021, 02:03:22 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 20, 2021, 01:59:27 PM
Some great pints, but you boys should know by now not to waste your time replying to the resident clown. Not one hoot does he give about anything you guys have to say, not one. The lack of self-awareness is staggering.

I'd say pretty much everyone now knows someone suffering from long covid. I've a v close friend currently dealing with long Covid specialists in the London centre. They are really really struggling.
Can't wait! 🍺🍻
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 02:05:37 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-dubious-origins-of-long-covid-11616452583
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 20, 2021, 02:05:47 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 20, 2021, 01:59:27 PM
Some great pints, but you boys should know by now not to waste your time replying to the resident clown. Not one hoot does he give about anything you guys have to say, not one. The lack of self-awareness is staggering.

I'd say pretty much everyone now knows someone suffering from long covid. I've a v close friend currently dealing with long Covid specialists in the London centre. They are really really struggling.

The logical and rational conclusion is they are liars though ;D

Yes point well made about wasting your time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on May 20, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 01:58:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on May 20, 2021, 01:39:03 PM
long covid effects are not unknown. see my previous post.

They are unknown.

ive told my relative, they have let the other doctors know the long covid effects arent as a result covid and are actually unknown... they are retesting and based on your analysis are hopeful the previous permanent damage to lung heart etc will be gone...

ill be back to confirm once its confirmed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on May 20, 2021, 02:06:47 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 20, 2021, 02:03:22 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 20, 2021, 01:59:27 PM
Some great pints, but you boys should know by now not to waste your time replying to the resident clown. Not one hoot does he give about anything you guys have to say, not one. The lack of self-awareness is staggering.

I'd say pretty much everyone now knows someone suffering from long covid. I've a v close friend currently dealing with long Covid specialists in the London centre. They are really really struggling.
Can't wait! 🍺🍻

Hehehe.. On the horizon!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on May 20, 2021, 02:07:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 01:22:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 20, 2021, 12:00:54 PM
Covid could age you 10 years in terms of damage to parts of your body.

There is also the example of the 24 year old twins in India who died, I'm sure that that their familiy would like to hear Angelo's theories about young people being unaffected.

This is the disingenuous and purely speculative nonsense that has become par the course for the zealots on here.

Forget the truth, forge the facts, forget things we actually and just engage in hysterical and unproven speculation to pedal your agenda.
It is clear from the vaccine uptake that the public, especially in the UK and Ireland, have overwhelmingly opted to believe in science and expertise, rather than listen to deniers and uninformed online lunatics like yourself. You have lost all arguments so time for you to find a new hobby.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on May 20, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 01:58:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on May 20, 2021, 01:39:03 PM
long covid effects are not unknown. see my previous post.

They are unknown.

ive told my relative, they have let the other doctors know the long covid effects arent as a result covid and are actually unknown... they are retesting and based on your analysis are hopeful the previous permanent damage to lung heart etc will be gone...

ill be back to confirm once its confirmed.

Medical experts are baffled and cannot explain Long Covid. It's an unknown, something that has gained traction without any supporting evidence.

It's a godsend for hypochondriacs and lazy people.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-dubious-origins-of-long-covid-11616452583
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 02:15:49 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 20, 2021, 02:07:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 01:22:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 20, 2021, 12:00:54 PM
Covid could age you 10 years in terms of damage to parts of your body.

There is also the example of the 24 year old twins in India who died, I'm sure that that their familiy would like to hear Angelo's theories about young people being unaffected.

This is the disingenuous and purely speculative nonsense that has become par the course for the zealots on here.

Forget the truth, forge the facts, forget things we actually and just engage in hysterical and unproven speculation to pedal your agenda.
It is clear from the vaccine uptake that the public, especially in the UK and Ireland, have overwhelmingly opted to believe in science and expertise, rather than listen to deniers and uninformed online lunatics like yourself. You have lost all arguments so time for you to find a new hobby.

They have done whatever the authorities have told them to do.

I haven't lost any arguments, I have made the most logical and accurate arguments.

Unlike you zealots. I haven't demanded people conform to my views, I haven't tried to label, vilify or shame those with a different view which has been the modus operandi of you and your buddies.

I have made a rational case that people should be allowed make their own informed decisions without prejudices.

Sadly that sort of Independent thinking does not conform with zealotry and that's why I have you and your fellow zealots so rattled.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 02:16:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on May 20, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 01:58:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on May 20, 2021, 01:39:03 PM
long covid effects are not unknown. see my previous post.

They are unknown.

ive told my relative, they have let the other doctors know the long covid effects arent as a result covid and are actually unknown... they are retesting and based on your analysis are hopeful the previous permanent damage to lung heart etc will be gone...

ill be back to confirm once its confirmed.

Medical experts are baffled and cannot explain Long Covid. It's an unknown, something that has gained traction without any supporting evidence.

It's a godsend for hypochondriacs and lazy people.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-dubious-origins-of-long-covid-11616452583

Yes that opinion article in the WSJ definitely puts those medical reports in their place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 02:21:55 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 02:16:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on May 20, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 01:58:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on May 20, 2021, 01:39:03 PM
long covid effects are not unknown. see my previous post.

They are unknown.

ive told my relative, they have let the other doctors know the long covid effects arent as a result covid and are actually unknown... they are retesting and based on your analysis are hopeful the previous permanent damage to lung heart etc will be gone...

ill be back to confirm once its confirmed.

Medical experts are baffled and cannot explain Long Covid. It's an unknown, something that has gained traction without any supporting evidence.

It's a godsend for hypochondriacs and lazy people.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-dubious-origins-of-long-covid-11616452583

Yes that opinion article in the WSJ definitely puts those medical reports in their place.

If it's real then why are medics so baffled by it?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 02:24:10 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 02:16:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 02:10:49 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on May 20, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 01:58:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on May 20, 2021, 01:39:03 PM
long covid effects are not unknown. see my previous post.

They are unknown.

ive told my relative, they have let the other doctors know the long covid effects arent as a result covid and are actually unknown... they are retesting and based on your analysis are hopeful the previous permanent damage to lung heart etc will be gone...

ill be back to confirm once its confirmed.

Medical experts are baffled and cannot explain Long Covid. It's an unknown, something that has gained traction without any supporting evidence.

It's a godsend for hypochondriacs and lazy people.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-dubious-origins-of-long-covid-11616452583

Yes that opinion article in the WSJ definitely puts those medical reports in their place.

"I don't think this is going to be easy to figure out," said Steven Deeks, a professor of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco, who is leading a clinical trial to find answers. "The vaccines and therapeutics, they were easy. With this post-acute Covid syndrome, we have no idea how to measure it. We have no prior experience in terms of defining it or treating it, so it's kind of a wild, wild West right now."

There's a professor basically saying that the medical profession haven't a f**king clue about it. They have nothing to either verify it exists or explain why it exists but people here willingly believe it exists.

Seeing as you are all experts now and able to tell me that Long Covid exists, can you tell me how its existence is confirmed?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 02:34:06 PM
You've kind of proved the point. There is trials going on to get more data. Kinda shows that it exists or what would they be doing trials on. Your going to need more than an opinion piece in the WSJ and that quote which, no matter how you twist it doesn't deny long Covid, to sway anyone with a brain cell.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on May 20, 2021, 02:50:57 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 20, 2021, 02:05:47 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 20, 2021, 01:59:27 PM
Some great pints, but you boys should know by now not to waste your time replying to the resident clown. Not one hoot does he give about anything you guys have to say, not one. The lack of self-awareness is staggering.

I'd say pretty much everyone now knows someone suffering from long covid. I've a v close friend currently dealing with long Covid specialists in the London centre. They are really really struggling.

The logical and rational conclusion is they are liars though ;D

Yes point well made about wasting your time.
Some people don't have meaningful interaction with real life people, all their views are based on what they gleam from the internet (where they seek out information to confirm their bias) 
These people are few and far between, but shout loudly.

In my circle of friends, family and work colleagues, I don't know a single person who doesn't want the vaccine. Mostly because they know people who have had Covid, and they don't want to get it, nor do they want to place friends/family in jeopardy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 20, 2021, 02:51:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 02:15:49 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 20, 2021, 02:07:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 01:22:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 20, 2021, 12:00:54 PM
Covid could age you 10 years in terms of damage to parts of your body.

There is also the example of the 24 year old twins in India who died, I'm sure that that their familiy would like to hear Angelo's theories about young people being unaffected.

This is the disingenuous and purely speculative nonsense that has become par the course for the zealots on here.

Forget the truth, forge the facts, forget things we actually and just engage in hysterical and unproven speculation to pedal your agenda.
It is clear from the vaccine uptake that the public, especially in the UK and Ireland, have overwhelmingly opted to believe in science and expertise, rather than listen to deniers and uninformed online lunatics like yourself. You have lost all arguments so time for you to find a new hobby.

They have done whatever the authorities have told them to do.

I haven't lost any arguments, I have made the most logical and accurate arguments.

Unlike you zealots. I haven't demanded people conform to my views, I haven't tried to label, vilify or shame those with a different view which has been the modus operandi of you and your buddies.

I have made a rational case that people should be allowed make their own informed decisions without prejudices.

Sadly that sort of Independent thinking does not conform with zealotry and that's why I have you and your fellow zealots so rattled.

You left out Nazi Germany in your post
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:01:20 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 02:34:06 PM
You've kind of proved the point. There is trials going on to get more data. Kinda shows that it exists or what would they be doing trials on. Your going to need more than an opinion piece in the WSJ and that quote which, no matter how you twist it doesn't deny long Covid, to sway anyone with a brain cell.

So you can't answer the questions I posed?

How do medical professionals diagnose Long Covid? Why can't medical professionals explain it?

Surely these are fundamentals for it to be given credibility yet all it seems to have is anecdotal momentum and that for me is spurious at the very best.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 20, 2021, 02:51:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 02:15:49 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 20, 2021, 02:07:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 01:22:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 20, 2021, 12:00:54 PM
Covid could age you 10 years in terms of damage to parts of your body.

There is also the example of the 24 year old twins in India who died, I'm sure that that their familiy would like to hear Angelo's theories about young people being unaffected.

This is the disingenuous and purely speculative nonsense that has become par the course for the zealots on here.

Forget the truth, forge the facts, forget things we actually and just engage in hysterical and unproven speculation to pedal your agenda.
It is clear from the vaccine uptake that the public, especially in the UK and Ireland, have overwhelmingly opted to believe in science and expertise, rather than listen to deniers and uninformed online lunatics like yourself. You have lost all arguments so time for you to find a new hobby.

They have done whatever the authorities have told them to do.

I haven't lost any arguments, I have made the most logical and accurate arguments.

Unlike you zealots. I haven't demanded people conform to my views, I haven't tried to label, vilify or shame those with a different view which has been the modus operandi of you and your buddies.

I have made a rational case that people should be allowed make their own informed decisions without prejudices.

Sadly that sort of Independent thinking does not conform with zealotry and that's why I have you and your fellow zealots so rattled.

You left out Nazi Germany in your post

Going to make a few more posts hoping I die today?

Unbelievable that the moderator did not issue you with a ban for your post this morning.

Quite frankly undermines any single rule we have on this board when you have impunity to insult and wish death on other posters.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 04:10:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:01:20 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 02:34:06 PM
You've kind of proved the point. There is trials going on to get more data. Kinda shows that it exists or what would they be doing trials on. Your going to need more than an opinion piece in the WSJ and that quote which, no matter how you twist it doesn't deny long Covid, to sway anyone with a brain cell.

So you can't answer the questions I posed?

How do medical professionals diagnose Long Covid? Why can't medical professionals explain it?

Surely these are fundamentals for it to be given credibility yet all it seems to have is anecdotal momentum and that for me is spurious at the very best.

They do an assessment similar to virtually all other ailments. They do blood tests, scans, blood pressure, exercise tolerance tests. I know people who have been through it.

You can choose not to believe in it. That's your right. But I don't think you've influenced anyone else into having the same opinion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:11:21 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 20, 2021, 02:50:57 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 20, 2021, 02:05:47 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 20, 2021, 01:59:27 PM
Some great pints, but you boys should know by now not to waste your time replying to the resident clown. Not one hoot does he give about anything you guys have to say, not one. The lack of self-awareness is staggering.

I'd say pretty much everyone now knows someone suffering from long covid. I've a v close friend currently dealing with long Covid specialists in the London centre. They are really really struggling.

The logical and rational conclusion is they are liars though ;D

Yes point well made about wasting your time.
Some people don't have meaningful interaction with real life people, all their views are based on what they gleam from the internet (where they seek out information to confirm their bias) 
These people are few and far between, but shout loudly.

In my circle of friends, family and work colleagues, I don't know a single person who doesn't want the vaccine. Mostly because they know people who have had Covid, and they don't want to get it, nor do they want to place friends/family in jeopardy.

Hound really likes to project his own shortcomings on this board.

His contributions seem to be wholesale bigoted views and gaslighting other posters indirectly.

What you have said there actually sums up yourself perfectly but you seem to lack any of the self awareness to realise that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:14:04 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 04:10:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:01:20 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 02:34:06 PM
You've kind of proved the point. There is trials going on to get more data. Kinda shows that it exists or what would they be doing trials on. Your going to need more than an opinion piece in the WSJ and that quote which, no matter how you twist it doesn't deny long Covid, to sway anyone with a brain cell.

So you can't answer the questions I posed?

How do medical professionals diagnose Long Covid? Why can't medical professionals explain it?

Surely these are fundamentals for it to be given credibility yet all it seems to have is anecdotal momentum and that for me is spurious at the very best.

They do an assessment similar to virtually all other ailments. They do blood tests, scans, blood pressure, exercise tolerance tests. I know people who have been through it.

You can choose not to believe in it. That's your right. But I don't think you've influenced anyone else into having the same opinion.

They can't explain it though. They're basically diagnosing something they have not the slightest idea about.

They have basically expanded the net for Long Covid to be anything.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 04:20:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:14:04 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 04:10:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:01:20 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 02:34:06 PM
You've kind of proved the point. There is trials going on to get more data. Kinda shows that it exists or what would they be doing trials on. Your going to need more than an opinion piece in the WSJ and that quote which, no matter how you twist it doesn't deny long Covid, to sway anyone with a brain cell.

So you can't answer the questions I posed?

How do medical professionals diagnose Long Covid? Why can't medical professionals explain it?

Surely these are fundamentals for it to be given credibility yet all it seems to have is anecdotal momentum and that for me is spurious at the very best.

They do an assessment similar to virtually all other ailments. They do blood tests, scans, blood pressure, exercise tolerance tests. I know people who have been through it.

You can choose not to believe in it. That's your right. But I don't think you've influenced anyone else into having the same opinion.

They can't explain it though. They're basically diagnosing something they have not the slightest idea about.

They have basically expanded the net for Long Covid to be anything.
It's a new long term illness. It's not like they know nothing. Have a google, there's plenty of info there that discusses long term Covid. It's quite evident that long Covid exists despite your attemp to proclaim otherwise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:39:14 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 04:20:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:14:04 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 04:10:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:01:20 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 02:34:06 PM
You've kind of proved the point. There is trials going on to get more data. Kinda shows that it exists or what would they be doing trials on. Your going to need more than an opinion piece in the WSJ and that quote which, no matter how you twist it doesn't deny long Covid, to sway anyone with a brain cell.

So you can't answer the questions I posed?

How do medical professionals diagnose Long Covid? Why can't medical professionals explain it?

Surely these are fundamentals for it to be given credibility yet all it seems to have is anecdotal momentum and that for me is spurious at the very best.

They do an assessment similar to virtually all other ailments. They do blood tests, scans, blood pressure, exercise tolerance tests. I know people who have been through it.

You can choose not to believe in it. That's your right. But I don't think you've influenced anyone else into having the same opinion.

They can't explain it though. They're basically diagnosing something they have not the slightest idea about.

They have basically expanded the net for Long Covid to be anything.
It's a new long term illness. It's not like they know nothing. Have a google, there's plenty of info there that discusses long term Covid. It's quite evident that long Covid exists despite your attemp to proclaim otherwise.

I've read articles supporting it's existence and they seem to be solely supported by anecdotal stories.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 04:42:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:39:14 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 04:20:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:14:04 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 04:10:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:01:20 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 02:34:06 PM
You've kind of proved the point. There is trials going on to get more data. Kinda shows that it exists or what would they be doing trials on. Your going to need more than an opinion piece in the WSJ and that quote which, no matter how you twist it doesn't deny long Covid, to sway anyone with a brain cell.

So you can't answer the questions I posed?

How do medical professionals diagnose Long Covid? Why can't medical professionals explain it?

Surely these are fundamentals for it to be given credibility yet all it seems to have is anecdotal momentum and that for me is spurious at the very best.

They do an assessment similar to virtually all other ailments. They do blood tests, scans, blood pressure, exercise tolerance tests. I know people who have been through it.

You can choose not to believe in it. That's your right. But I don't think you've influenced anyone else into having the same opinion.

They can't explain it though. They're basically diagnosing something they have not the slightest idea about.

They have basically expanded the net for Long Covid to be anything.
It's a new long term illness. It's not like they know nothing. Have a google, there's plenty of info there that discusses long term Covid. It's quite evident that long Covid exists despite your attemp to proclaim otherwise.

I've read articles supporting it's existence and they seem to be solely supported by anecdotal stories.
So no articles mention organ damage? Scarring of the lung tissue etc?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:45:26 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 04:42:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:39:14 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 04:20:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:14:04 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 04:10:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:01:20 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 02:34:06 PM
You've kind of proved the point. There is trials going on to get more data. Kinda shows that it exists or what would they be doing trials on. Your going to need more than an opinion piece in the WSJ and that quote which, no matter how you twist it doesn't deny long Covid, to sway anyone with a brain cell.

So you can't answer the questions I posed?

How do medical professionals diagnose Long Covid? Why can't medical professionals explain it?

Surely these are fundamentals for it to be given credibility yet all it seems to have is anecdotal momentum and that for me is spurious at the very best.

They do an assessment similar to virtually all other ailments. They do blood tests, scans, blood pressure, exercise tolerance tests. I know people who have been through it.

You can choose not to believe in it. That's your right. But I don't think you've influenced anyone else into having the same opinion.

They can't explain it though. They're basically diagnosing something they have not the slightest idea about.

They have basically expanded the net for Long Covid to be anything.
It's a new long term illness. It's not like they know nothing. Have a google, there's plenty of info there that discusses long term Covid. It's quite evident that long Covid exists despite your attemp to proclaim otherwise.

I've read articles supporting it's existence and they seem to be solely supported by anecdotal stories.
So no articles mention organ damage? Scarring of the lung tissue etc?

Not generally, people who had bad doses of Covid will naturally take longer to recover fully. The main thing I see mentioned with Covid but be fatigue which sometimes can be known as laziness.

Do you think it suits certain people to claim Long Covid? Yes or no.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on May 20, 2021, 04:46:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 01:20:53 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 20, 2021, 12:19:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 10:52:37 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 10:43:07 AM
But there is already evidence of Long Covid. Some pretty grim reading on the impacts of it on people. It's not theoretical. And it seems to be hitting the younger age groups as well.

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-05-20/long-covid-one-in-seven-younger-people-suffer-symptoms-up-to-six-months-after-catching-coronavirus

That's not long term.

If you have had a proper flu in the past you will know that it takes months to get back to 100%.

Long Covid is a complete and utter joke and the oxegen a hypochondriac or a lazy person needs.

How many months does it take to get back to 100% if you've suffered from non-reversible lung damage?

I was unaware Covid was the only thing that causes non-reversible lung damage.

Was also unaware how we suddenly have so many respiratory experts on the forum?

Or maybe we just have chaps like you speaking authoritatively on things they neither know about or understand?

Au contraire, I merely posed a question.

The only one speaking "authoritatively" here is yourself - see highlighted section.

Your hysterical reaction to my question is telling.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on May 20, 2021, 04:48:02 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 07:20:19 AM
What do we know about long term effects of the vaccine? Nothing.

What do we know about long term effects of Covid. Not a lot.
What do we know about long term effects of dying from Covid? Quite a lot, actually, not least that it's long term. Very long term, in fact.

Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 07:20:19 AM
It's a personal choice. When you see a few eejits like Trailer calling people uneducated because they don't see an upside into getting it and wanting sanctions put on them for exercising their own decisions then IMO it's people like him who are not only uneducated but dangerous. 90% of people who are getting the vaccine or doing so because they are being told to or being coerced into it.
Good grief! Self-awareness clearly isn't your strong suit.

You complain when one invidual stereotypes the minority of non-vaccinated people as "uneducated", then in the same breath you stereotype the great majority of people who choose to be vaccinated as only doing so because "they were told, or were coerced into it".

Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 07:20:19 AM
I look at it from the point of view, which is backed up by statistical data, Covid is not a threat to my demograph. There's more chance of me sitting into my car today, driving 20 miles and dying or getting seriously injured than there is of getting Covid and dying of getting seriously injured.
Covid may not threatedn you with ill-health or death. But that's not the only reason for you to get vaccinated.

For younger people can still become infected without symptoms, without even knowing it, but then pass on the infection to others who are vulnerable. So that unless you don't have parents or grandparents, aunts or uncles, older neighbours or workmates etc, then you are putting others at risk.

Which alone is extremely selfish, but in fact it's worse than that. For there is evidence that one of the strains of the new Indian variant may be attacking younger children:
https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-why-singapore-is-shutting-down-schools-over-fears-about-b-1-617-covid-variant-7320318/ (https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-why-singapore-is-shutting-down-schools-over-fears-about-b-1-617-covid-variant-7320318/)
(Note that the corona virus behind Spanish Flu in 1917/18/19, which killen tens of millions, was the reverse of Covid-19 in that it predominantly killed young adults, but spared older adults.)

And that's the thing about viruses: they mutate all the time. And the more widespread they are, the more new variant strains can evolve, which may affect new demographics and/or outwit current vaccines and medical procedures.

Meaning that until we get on top of this virus, we are constantly at future risk, with the only sure way of getting on top being mass vaccination to achieve herd immunity.

Which won't happen while selfish and (apparently) wilfully obtuse people like you hold onto your position come-what-may, even in the face of all evidence and reason. 

Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 07:20:19 AM
I wonder do these same zealots who demand people get the vaccine, those who vilify, shame and insult those who choose not to get the flu jab every year or are they just moronic hypocrites. It's people like these who are a fickle mob and no doubt would have been front and centre when Hitler was whipping up Nazi Germany.
"Nazi Germany" - fcuk me sideways.  ::)

Since you appear to be confusing the Nuremburg Laws with Godwin's Law, here's a primer for you:
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nuremberg-laws (https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/nuremberg-laws)
versus
https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/340583?redirectedFrom=Godwin%27s+law#eid (https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/340583?redirectedFrom=Godwin%27s+law#eid)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:45:26 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 04:42:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:39:14 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 04:20:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:14:04 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 04:10:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:01:20 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 02:34:06 PM
You've kind of proved the point. There is trials going on to get more data. Kinda shows that it exists or what would they be doing trials on. Your going to need more than an opinion piece in the WSJ and that quote which, no matter how you twist it doesn't deny long Covid, to sway anyone with a brain cell.

So you can't answer the questions I posed?

How do medical professionals diagnose Long Covid? Why can't medical professionals explain it?

Surely these are fundamentals for it to be given credibility yet all it seems to have is anecdotal momentum and that for me is spurious at the very best.

They do an assessment similar to virtually all other ailments. They do blood tests, scans, blood pressure, exercise tolerance tests. I know people who have been through it.

You can choose not to believe in it. That's your right. But I don't think you've influenced anyone else into having the same opinion.

They can't explain it though. They're basically diagnosing something they have not the slightest idea about.

They have basically expanded the net for Long Covid to be anything.
It's a new long term illness. It's not like they know nothing. Have a google, there's plenty of info there that discusses long term Covid. It's quite evident that long Covid exists despite your attemp to proclaim otherwise.

I've read articles supporting it's existence and they seem to be solely supported by anecdotal stories.
So no articles mention organ damage? Scarring of the lung tissue etc?

Not generally, people who had bad doses of Covid will naturally take longer to recover fully. The main thing I see mentioned with Covid but be fatigue which sometimes can be known as laziness.

Do you think it suits certain people to claim Long Covid? Yes or no.
Some people yes. Same as any illness. People can take advantage. But only an idiot would think that because some people might take advantage of it, that it doesn't exist.

Plus you need to do some more reading.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4470
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-survivors-can-suffer-damage-to-almost-every-major-organ-12027749

I'm assuming now your educated you will amend your view on long Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:59:15 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:45:26 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 04:42:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:39:14 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 04:20:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:14:04 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 04:10:47 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 04:01:20 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 02:34:06 PM
You've kind of proved the point. There is trials going on to get more data. Kinda shows that it exists or what would they be doing trials on. Your going to need more than an opinion piece in the WSJ and that quote which, no matter how you twist it doesn't deny long Covid, to sway anyone with a brain cell.

So you can't answer the questions I posed?

How do medical professionals diagnose Long Covid? Why can't medical professionals explain it?

Surely these are fundamentals for it to be given credibility yet all it seems to have is anecdotal momentum and that for me is spurious at the very best.

They do an assessment similar to virtually all other ailments. They do blood tests, scans, blood pressure, exercise tolerance tests. I know people who have been through it.

You can choose not to believe in it. That's your right. But I don't think you've influenced anyone else into having the same opinion.

They can't explain it though. They're basically diagnosing something they have not the slightest idea about.

They have basically expanded the net for Long Covid to be anything.
It's a new long term illness. It's not like they know nothing. Have a google, there's plenty of info there that discusses long term Covid. It's quite evident that long Covid exists despite your attemp to proclaim otherwise.

I've read articles supporting it's existence and they seem to be solely supported by anecdotal stories.
So no articles mention organ damage? Scarring of the lung tissue etc?

Not generally, people who had bad doses of Covid will naturally take longer to recover fully. The main thing I see mentioned with Covid but be fatigue which sometimes can be known as laziness.

Do you think it suits certain people to claim Long Covid? Yes or no.
Some people yes. Same as any illness. People can take advantage. But only an idiot would think that because some people might take advantage of it, that it doesn't exist.

Plus you need to do some more reading.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4470
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-survivors-can-suffer-damage-to-almost-every-major-organ-12027749

I'm assuming now your educated you will amend your view on long Covid.

Certainly nowhere near as widespread or common as being made out. It would be natural for people who have had a severe case of some illness to have some associated problems for some time after. That does not legitimise terming a new disease for it.

Do we have flu and long flu?
Do we have glandular fever and long glandular fever?
Do we have pneumonia and long pneumonia?
Do we have a common cold and a long common cold?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 05:05:40 PM
If your arguing about the name we'll leave it there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 05:09:03 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 05:05:40 PM
If your arguing about the name we'll leave it there.

Why? It's been made into it's own entity now, that's the whole issue.

And people are latching onto this and it's been given such coverage and credence.

Could some people take quite some time to fully recover from Covid? Of course, like any ailment sometimes people will take longer to get over it fully.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 05:14:54 PM
People are t latching onto because of a name. It's getting coverage because it's affecting so many people. And some very serious symptoms. This seems to annoy you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 05:16:42 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 05:14:54 PM
People are t latching onto because of a name. It's getting coverage because it's affecting so many people. And some very serious symptoms. This seems to annoy you.

Effecting so many people? Why? Because they feel tired?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 05:19:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 05:16:42 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 05:14:54 PM
People are t latching onto because of a name. It's getting coverage because it's affecting so many people. And some very serious symptoms. This seems to annoy you.

Effecting so many people? Why? Because they feel tired?

Along with many other symptoms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 05:21:51 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 05:19:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 05:16:42 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 05:14:54 PM
People are t latching onto because of a name. It's getting coverage because it's affecting so many people. And some very serious symptoms. This seems to annoy you.

Effecting so many people? Why? Because they feel tired?

Along with many other symptoms.

So many other common symptoms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 05:27:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 05:21:51 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 05:19:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 05:16:42 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 05:14:54 PM
People are t latching onto because of a name. It's getting coverage because it's affecting so many people. And some very serious symptoms. This seems to annoy you.

Effecting so many people? Why? Because they feel tired?

Along with many other symptoms.

So many other common symptoms.

And some not so common. A real mixed bag.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on May 20, 2021, 05:35:29 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 05:09:03 PM
[Lomg Covid has] been made into it's own entity now, that's the whole issue.

And people are latching onto this and it's been given such coverage and credence.

Could some people take quite some time to fully recover from Covid? Of course, like any ailment sometimes people will take longer to get over it fully.
All the emerging evidence of this new disease suggests that Long Covid is an idiopathic disease i.e. one which scientists don't fully understand eg where it comes from, why certain people get it, or how to treat it.

Such diseases are as old as science, and still exist. One example is Ankylosing spondylitis. This is an arthritic disease which affects peoples spines, causing back pain which can come and go, sometimes spreading beyond the spine. Sometimes it is severe, such that sufferers become crippled. It is physically visible, yet scientists still have no real understanding what causes it, or why it affects some people but not others.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/0510_Spondylitis_ankylosans_%28morbus_bechterew%29_anagoria.JPG/450px-0510_Spondylitis_ankylosans_%28morbus_bechterew%29_anagoria.JPG)
A 6th-century skeleton showing fused vertebrae, a sign of severe ankylosing spondylitis

Yet by your reasoning [sic], it shouldn't really exist, just like Long Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 20, 2021, 07:16:29 PM
Scarring of lungs in very young people. Yes common that is alright...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 07:18:21 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 20, 2021, 07:16:29 PM
Scarring of lungs in very young people. Yes common that is alright...

When were young people checked for scarring of lungs previously?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 20, 2021, 07:27:21 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 07:18:21 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 20, 2021, 07:16:29 PM
Scarring of lungs in very young people. Yes common that is alright...

When were young people checked for scarring of lungs previously?
Your running out of room mate. Your argument was weak to begin with and has got worse. Sometimes it ok to quietly back out of a thread than to keep trying to flog a dead horse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 20, 2021, 07:40:23 PM
Why would an asymptomatic person be tested for lung scarring?

Its usually a disease of someone who is exposed to very large doses of particulates such as asbestos or crystalline silica.

Everyone probably has a wee bit of scarring in their lungs. It is pretty far advanced by the time you get shortness of breath and your lungs can't take in enough oxygen, which presumably is the case with these long COVID patients.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 20, 2021, 07:53:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 07:18:21 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 20, 2021, 07:16:29 PM
Scarring of lungs in very young people. Yes common that is alright...

When were young people checked for scarring of lungs previously?

Presumably when they exhibited symptoms which necessitated scanning ???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 20, 2021, 08:01:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 20, 2021, 07:53:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 07:18:21 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 20, 2021, 07:16:29 PM
Scarring of lungs in very young people. Yes common that is alright...

When were young people checked for scarring of lungs previously?

Presumably when they exhibited symptoms which necessitated scanning ???

No, you are wrong you nazi zealot! Hitler supporter
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 09:26:19 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 20, 2021, 07:53:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 20, 2021, 07:18:21 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 20, 2021, 07:16:29 PM
Scarring of lungs in very young people. Yes common that is alright...

When were young people checked for scarring of lungs previously?

Presumably when they exhibited symptoms which necessitated scanning ???

Doesn't answer my question.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 20, 2021, 09:55:37 PM
Oh well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 20, 2021, 10:01:55 PM
Quote from: highorlow on May 18, 2021, 10:17:31 AM
QuoteIt doesn't seem to be a problem.

You would say that....cause you appear to be right about everything.....

Quote"We" don't have all these "new variants" around.

Funny how you neglected to quote the rest of the posts. Here, I'll help you along.

QuoteBut at the rate govts and stupid people around the world keep making a f**k up of it - its only a matter of time before a variant comes along that is a problem.

Quote"We" don't have all these "new variants" around. Various parts of the world have new variants.

Its in our best interests to keep those variants as far from these shores as possible - as there is always the chance it compromises the vulnerable that have been vaccinated and pushes us back toward square one.


Aside from the UK govt once again f**king up and allowing mass travel from hotspots...
The population of the UK & Ireland is around 75-80 million. The population of the entire world is nearly 8 billion. I'll leave you to work out where it is most likely continued emergence of new variants will come from.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on May 25, 2021, 11:33:33 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-57213046

so is there an Indian variant or not?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 25, 2021, 11:37:26 AM
You can always tell when things are getting better. This thread slows way down.

Great to see.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on May 25, 2021, 09:37:09 PM
Quote from: clarshack on May 25, 2021, 11:33:33 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-57213046

so is there an Indian variant or not?
Did the article go over your head? There's no question of the variant existing, the argument is over it's name!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 26, 2021, 10:40:38 AM
.
@Dominic2306
says on 12 March that Mark Sedwill advised PM to go on television to encourage people to have Covid "chicken pox" parties, to encourage herd immunity. Cummings says this was official Dept of Health policy.

I know he's a shyster but if there's other corroborating evidence then Boris really is fucked.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 26, 2021, 10:47:34 AM
"I think we're absolutely fucked. I think this country is heading for disaster. I think we're going to kill thousands of people."

Dominic Cummings on what senior officials said last year about the UK's pandemic preparations.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: yellowcard on May 26, 2021, 10:58:24 AM
I think Boris is fucked unless he can come up with a plausible explanation or denial (unlikely). It has been thought for some time now that Cummings wants to get Gove into number 10 and I think this is a blatant attempt to undermine Johnson and accelerate the process. If Boris can brazen this out then he truly is bullet proof but a lot will depend on whether the print media go after him in the coming days ahead. There were already signs that they had begun to turn on him in recent weeks and months and I think Gove is being lined up for a coup.   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 26, 2021, 11:05:20 AM
Yeah this is interesting. There was always going to be someone he shafted, as he shafts everyone, that would finish him. Whether Cummings is that person we will see soon enough I guess. I think the lies he is telling relentlessly in parliament are beginning to grate on people too. Gove wouldn't be much better anyway but at least you might have more than 0% that comes out of his mouth might be the truth. I doubt it'd be that much more but jesus the lies with Boris are beyond ridiculous.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 26, 2021, 11:08:43 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on May 26, 2021, 10:58:24 AM
I think Boris is fucked unless he can come up with a plausible explanation or denial (unlikely). It has been thought for some time now that Cummings wants to get Gove into number 10 and I think this is a blatant attempt to undermine Johnson and accelerate the process. If Boris can brazen this out then he truly is bullet proof but a lot will depend on whether the print media go after him in the coming days ahead. There were already signs that they had begun to turn on him in recent weeks and months and I think Gove is being lined up for a coup.   

Gove is hoovering around in the background alright, the sniveling wee p***k
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 26, 2021, 11:10:05 AM
Better or worse than Boris? I can't make up my mind.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on May 26, 2021, 11:17:19 AM
I reckon he'll ride it out. If Cummings was in the US the CIA would have whacked him by now..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2021, 11:18:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 26, 2021, 11:10:05 AM
Better or worse than Boris? I can't make up my mind.

Name me one Tory who is decent?

Cameron was the best of a bad bunch, now looks like he was up to neck getting favours done!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: yellowcard on May 26, 2021, 11:19:05 AM
Hancock completely fucked too, Cummings will get a book deal out of this!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on May 26, 2021, 11:22:22 AM
This Carrie one must be some ride as she seems to have Johnson in a complete spin and occupies majority of his decision making.

However, she is the latest in a long line of women who have greatly influenced, and continue to do so for monetary reasons, his decision making and Carrie will join these others once the next one comes along who flutters her eye lashes at him.

Johnson seems to base everything in the moment he is in. He'll say or do anything just to get out of the situation he is on or to take heat off himself at that time. He doesn't care for future consequences of his present comments or decisions and will deal with them if/when needed. To be this type you need to be brazen and liar. He is both.

Cummings made decisions for him. So he liked him.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 26, 2021, 11:23:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2021, 11:18:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 26, 2021, 11:10:05 AM
Better or worse than Boris? I can't make up my mind.

Name me one Tory who is decent?

Cameron was the best of a bad bunch, now looks like he was up to neck getting favours done!

Impossible. I don't know how they found so many people who gave so little of a shit about humanity and grouped them together. It's a skill.

Cummings horrible too. It's a bit like the Foster situation. They're all not very nice so we might as well enjoy the capitulation. (Though I remain to be convinced it will be as bad a capitulation as we want to see on either front.).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dougal Maguire on May 26, 2021, 11:37:37 AM
Rumours starting to emerge that Boris was made aware of the proposed Super League and gave it the nod. Bizarrely it's something like that that could bring him down rather than his running of the country
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 26, 2021, 11:57:12 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on May 26, 2021, 11:37:37 AM
Rumours starting to emerge that Boris was made aware of the proposed Super League and gave it the nod. Bizarrely it's something like that that could bring him down rather than his running of the country

The red wall like their football, ferrets, cod suppers and gravy..

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 26, 2021, 11:58:04 AM
Scots and Welsh getting uppity

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19328952.nicola-sturgeon-mark-drakeford-tell-pm-cut-bluster-covid-summit/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 26, 2021, 03:15:19 PM
Don't think Cummings could get his boot any further in during todays select committee hearing!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 26, 2021, 03:19:55 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 26, 2021, 03:15:19 PM
Don't think Cummings could get his boot any further in during todays select committee hearing!

He's a toe- rag himself so you'd take everything he says with a large pinch of salt but if half that is true about Boris and Hancock then they should resign forthwith.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 26, 2021, 03:23:25 PM
No deaths in 8 days in Northern Ireland.

Very good news.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on May 26, 2021, 03:26:18 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 26, 2021, 03:23:25 PM
No deaths in 8 days in Northern Ireland.

Very good news.

Superb!  The vaccine is doing the trick. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 26, 2021, 03:31:45 PM
On the subject if Boris and the football sure did he not meet with some of the chairmen of the clubs about 3 days previous and then said they didn't talk about that lol.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 26, 2021, 04:31:49 PM
Most of the moderate Tories were purged in the intercine Tory Brexit wars, forced to sign up to BJ's Brexit plan b4 the last GE, some resigned or retired, others keeping the heads down.

Teflon Boris will survive, a Cabinet reshuffle has been delayed numerous times recently, what odds it happens very shortly and Hancock unceremoniously gets threw under the bus. As most of Cummings revelations have been plastered all over Twitter recently there'll have been prep done!

Also, Bojo will be more worried about Rishi Sunak than Gove. He'll be weakened.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 26, 2021, 04:47:27 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 26, 2021, 04:31:49 PM
Most of the moderate Tories were purged in the intercine Tory Brexit wars, forced to sign up to BJ's Brexit plan b4 the last GE, some resigned or retired, others keeping the heads down.

Teflon Boris will survive, a Cabinet reshuffle has been delayed numerous times recently, what odds it happens very shortly and Hancock unceremoniously gets threw under the bus. As most of Cummings revelations have been plastered all over Twitter recently there'll have been prep done!

Also, Bojo will be more worried about Rishi Sunak than Gove. He'll be weakened.

The gymnastics Cummings managed in not criticising Sunak over his headling "eat out to help out" policy suggests Cummings knows only too well who to go after and who not.

no mention of his old mate Gove either.

Hancock however got a good reading up...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on May 26, 2021, 05:15:05 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 26, 2021, 04:31:49 PM
Most of the moderate Tories were purged in the intercine Tory Brexit wars, forced to sign up to BJ's Brexit plan b4 the last GE, some resigned or retired, others keeping the heads down.

Teflon Boris will survive, a Cabinet reshuffle has been delayed numerous times recently, what odds it happens very shortly and Hancock unceremoniously gets threw under the bus. As most of Cummings revelations have been plastered all over Twitter recently there'll have been prep done!

Also, Bojo will be more worried about Rishi Sunak than Gove. He'll be weakened.

In a nutshell.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on May 27, 2021, 12:48:47 AM
Quote from: Louther on May 26, 2021, 11:22:22 AM
This Carrie one must be some ride as she seems to have Johnson in a complete spin and occupies majority of his decision making.
Whoever christened her "Carrie Antoinette" deserves a knighthood!

That is all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on May 27, 2021, 06:43:08 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 16, 2021, 03:47:50 PM
Is (or has he already) Bojo going f**k up his vaccination victory lap by letting the Indian variant get a strong foothold? English Nationalists will forgive him for pretty much anything bar denying them their promised freedoms. All for the sake of an Indian trade deal.
France (& Germany & Austria) pulling the shutters down on UK tourists.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/france-quarantine-uk-travel-covid-b1854288.html

I think the Tory voting public will forgive nearly anything, but if they can't get on holidays or there's another lockdown, Bojo will be toast. If Spain bans UK tourists they'll burn down N10
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GetOverTheBar on May 28, 2021, 01:25:47 PM
South of Ireland in the longest lockdown in Europe, minimal figures (comparatively).....to be fair not really much of it about anyway.

Meanwhile India that was in flames just a week ago easing lockdown. These lads are having a laugh.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0528/1224439-coronavirus-global/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on May 28, 2021, 01:34:57 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 28, 2021, 01:25:47 PM
South of Ireland in the longest lockdown in Europe, minimal figures (comparatively).....to be fair not really much of it about anyway.

Meanwhile India that was in flames just a week ago easing lockdown. These lads are having a laugh.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0528/1224439-coronavirus-global/

Depends on how much you value a human life.

The Caste system is rife in India so the farm workers and the likes are dispensable to the ruling elites.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 28, 2021, 04:30:21 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 28, 2021, 01:25:47 PM
South of Ireland in the longest lockdown in Europe, minimal figures (comparatively).....to be fair not really much of it about anyway.

Meanwhile India that was in flames just a week ago easing lockdown. These lads are having a laugh.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0528/1224439-coronavirus-global/

As Johnnycool says, do you really want us to be like India? Do you really want the smell of burning bodies everywhere and people throwing their relatives' bodies into rivers?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 30, 2021, 07:35:43 PM
A weekly update on ROI

Cases 2899 (134 fewer than last week)
No data on reported deaths due the the cyber attack

In hospital 99 (17 fewer the last Sunday)
In ICU 35 (8 fewer than last week)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on May 31, 2021, 08:51:52 AM
Disgusting behaviour in Dublin these last 2 nights. P"ssing & Sh"teing all over the place & rubbish all over the place. A herd of cattle wouldn't be as bad. Irish people really are low in-bred basta%ds.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on May 31, 2021, 09:12:55 AM
Quote from: Rudi on May 31, 2021, 08:51:52 AM
Disgusting behaviour in Dublin these last 2 nights. P"ssing & Sh"teing all over the place & rubbish all over the place. A herd of cattle wouldn't be as bad. Irish people really are low in-bred basta%ds.
No bins, no toilet facilities, no personal responsibility. A bad mix.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 31, 2021, 10:58:35 AM
No law enforcement....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Scarlet on May 31, 2021, 12:26:40 PM
Now they are around and talking about shutting down streets!

South William St attracts a certain type of dickhead and they are all about the FOMO and having all the fun on Insta! They were never going resect anything.
Meanwhile the pub that shut before it had to and do things right, Grogans, is still closed while these gobshites dance outside it.

They are moving people on having a quiet one in other spots and then scratch the heads when they congregate. It's not just that, on the radio now the crew running the surf school had to volunteer as lifeguards in Lahinch.

FFS imagine the first bit of sun and then not expecting people to hit the beach. Now Clare council are saying they will be there next week.

Talk of an outdoor summer but zero planning ahead. Again South William St is a kip and isn't what most people want.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on May 31, 2021, 01:44:17 PM
Its one thing to have huge numbers of people bunched together during a pandemic. But sh+teing in peoples door ways & streets is disgusting. Even when pubs / nightclubs open, people will piss anywhere bar the urinal, sh+te half way up a wall, break cisterns etc. Pig ignorant types. For all the alleged sophistication of the new Irish with drink / drugs some of us are still feral shit+bags. Not just Dublin yokes, all over the country.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 31, 2021, 04:03:35 PM
When are the hotel's opening up in the south?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Scarlet on May 31, 2021, 04:14:28 PM
Open for guests from June 2nd, but only guests can eat indoors. Outdoor drinking and dining from 7th June. No pints or food indoors till JULY!

Cinemas from 7th June, but only 200 at an open-air stadium from 7th June! I honestly can't get my head around the fact that people can stroll around shopping centres at the minute but no-one can go to Croke Park...

People will always act the bollocks but majority don't and the craic in Dublin has the powers that be angling for more shut-downs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on May 31, 2021, 05:14:16 PM
Time to seal off Limerick
https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0531/1225088-limerick-covid-update/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on May 31, 2021, 06:14:51 PM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on May 31, 2021, 04:14:28 PM
Open for guests from June 2nd, but only guests can eat indoors. Outdoor drinking and dining from 7th June. No pints or food indoors till JULY!

Cinemas from 7th June, but only 200 at an open-air stadium from 7th June! I honestly can't get my head around the fact that people can stroll around shopping centres at the minute but no-one can go to Croke Park...

People will always act the bollocks but majority don't and the craic in Dublin has the powers that be angling for more shut-downs.

Exactly. Shut down the small pubs in the west of Ireland for another month, that will solve the issue in Dublin. Such Bulls*it. In a lot of said bars in the west, you would most likely have the same 10 or 12 50-70 year olds in two or three nights a week and maybe Sunday after mass.
FG and FF and the civIl servants should stop talking sh*t, and expedite the vaccine rollout.
Two tourist seasons about to be wiped out.
It could take an additional month or two for larger hotels and restaurants to fully staff.
So that potentially will slow up reopening
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on May 31, 2021, 11:40:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 31, 2021, 10:58:35 AM
No law enforcement....
It's quite a different affair when the Traveler community are involved, when armed police were sent in to break up a relatively peaceful garden wedding celebration.
And nobody batted an eyelid about that OTT aggressive intervention when that was reported some weeks ago as headline news for 2 days.

https://www.independent.ie/news/more-than120-revellers-defy-court-order-to-attendwedding-party-in-longford-40391017.html (https://www.independent.ie/news/more-than120-revellers-defy-court-order-to-attendwedding-party-in-longford-40391017.html)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 01, 2021, 12:35:39 AM
Quote from: Main Street on May 31, 2021, 11:40:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 31, 2021, 10:58:35 AM
No law enforcement....
It's quite a different affair when the Traveler community are involved, when armed police were sent in to break up a relatively peaceful garden wedding celebration.
And nobody batted an eyelid about that OTT aggressive intervention when that was reported some weeks ago as headline news for 2 days.

https://www.independent.ie/news/more-than120-revellers-defy-court-order-to-attendwedding-party-in-longford-40391017.html (https://www.independent.ie/news/more-than120-revellers-defy-court-order-to-attendwedding-party-in-longford-40391017.html)

The Traveller wedding was premeditated and the law enforcement was not half strong enough,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on June 01, 2021, 01:15:49 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 01, 2021, 12:35:39 AM
Quote from: Main Street on May 31, 2021, 11:40:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 31, 2021, 10:58:35 AM
No law enforcement....
It's quite a different affair when the Traveler community are involved, when armed police were sent in to break up a relatively peaceful garden wedding celebration.
And nobody batted an eyelid about that OTT aggressive intervention when that was reported some weeks ago as headline news for 2 days.

https://www.independent.ie/news/more-than120-revellers-defy-court-order-to-attendwedding-party-in-longford-40391017.html (https://www.independent.ie/news/more-than120-revellers-defy-court-order-to-attendwedding-party-in-longford-40391017.html)

The Traveller wedding was premeditated and the law enforcement was not half strong enough,
That's a crock of  (racist) crap,  which does happen to make sense to a certain type of Irish.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 01, 2021, 10:02:10 AM
Quote from: Rudi on May 31, 2021, 01:44:17 PM
Its one thing to have huge numbers of people bunched together during a pandemic. But sh+teing in peoples door ways & streets is disgusting. Even when pubs / nightclubs open, people will piss anywhere bar the urinal, sh+te half way up a wall, break cisterns etc. Pig ignorant types. For all the alleged sophistication of the new Irish with drink / drugs some of us are still feral shit+bags. Not just Dublin yokes, all over the country.

DCC and The Gov need to get their act together. Expecting young people to sacrifice another year of their lives isn't going to happen. They be better to open hospitality with mitigations and push on with the Vaccine rollout. Young people are rightly fed up. They're living at home, they can't buy or rent a house, all pubs and clubs are closed and now they want to close streets and parks. It's dystopian stuff.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on June 01, 2021, 11:18:33 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 01, 2021, 10:02:10 AM
Quote from: Rudi on May 31, 2021, 01:44:17 PM
Its one thing to have huge numbers of people bunched together during a pandemic. But sh+teing in peoples door ways & streets is disgusting. Even when pubs / nightclubs open, people will piss anywhere bar the urinal, sh+te half way up a wall, break cisterns etc. Pig ignorant types. For all the alleged sophistication of the new Irish with drink / drugs some of us are still feral shit+bags. Not just Dublin yokes, all over the country.

DCC and The Gov need to get their act together. Expecting young people to sacrifice another year of their lives isn't going to happen. They be better to open hospitality with mitigations and push on with the Vaccine rollout. Young people are rightly fed up. They're living at home, they can't buy or rent a house, all pubs and clubs are closed and now they want to close streets and parks. It's dystopian stuff.

All of that is true, however it's no excuse for gouger behaviour from tramps.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 01, 2021, 11:40:38 AM
Quote from: Rudi on June 01, 2021, 11:18:33 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 01, 2021, 10:02:10 AM
Quote from: Rudi on May 31, 2021, 01:44:17 PM
Its one thing to have huge numbers of people bunched together during a pandemic. But sh+teing in peoples door ways & streets is disgusting. Even when pubs / nightclubs open, people will piss anywhere bar the urinal, sh+te half way up a wall, break cisterns etc. Pig ignorant types. For all the alleged sophistication of the new Irish with drink / drugs some of us are still feral shit+bags. Not just Dublin yokes, all over the country.

DCC and The Gov need to get their act together. Expecting young people to sacrifice another year of their lives isn't going to happen. They be better to open hospitality with mitigations and push on with the Vaccine rollout. Young people are rightly fed up. They're living at home, they can't buy or rent a house, all pubs and clubs are closed and now they want to close streets and parks. It's dystopian stuff.

All of that is true, however it's no excuse for gouger behaviour from tramps.

Totally but the lack of toilet facilities is stupid. At soccer training the council closed the pavilion. No toilets at training. Result is that the boys are pissing in the hedge near a walk and the girls have to go into one of the coaches houses. You if someone actually thought about a few things before they did it. There's talk of closing streets in Dublin next weekend for the bank holiday. What do they think will happen? Those people will be driven to another outside area if the weather is good and to house parties if it isn't. They certainly won't stay at home.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on June 01, 2021, 11:50:22 AM
There is some very closed thinking by DCC and other authorities in these situations.

There has to be some forward thinking and facilitation rather than the attitude of just close everything or kick the can down the road.

Firstly there will always be people who don't care what's in place, they'll act how they want, leave rubbish, break glass, ignore toilets, etc etc.

But by not having some level of control of the situation then everyone or majority will fall into that category. You can't tell people to do one thing with little alternative and then criticise them for doing it. Work with them. Dublin and most Irish towns and cities aren't blessed with large open civic spaces that can be used. So majority will gather in open streets or public parks.

But give them some chance to be responsible - bins, toilets, etc. It's only common sense. Costs as much to clean up I'm sure. Don't allow glass in certain areas - plastic bottles, cans, plastic cups etc only.

Few suggestions that if pubs serving take away drinks should make their toilets available.

Irish solution seems to be to close everything.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 01, 2021, 12:58:16 PM
Talk of a third wave in the UK, though the numbers are low and there was no reported deaths in England NI. and Wales yesterday, with only one reported death in Scotland they will have to use these figures as a means to decide closing stuff down again (though I can't see Boris ever doing another full lockdown)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 01, 2021, 01:10:25 PM
I'm not a festival goer, but would a swamp of plastic bags, empty bottles and tins, food wrappers and faeces not be the normal and expected early morning vista during/after a music festival?

There has to be a tipping point for events such as those, where it's more welcome, efficient and practical to organise a large scale clean-up than to actively police and persuade litter control.

Dublin County Council should have enough sense to coordinate this; that's their civic role. But sure isn't  it easier to blame young uns.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on June 01, 2021, 04:01:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 01, 2021, 12:58:16 PM
Talk of a third wave in the UK, though the numbers are low and there was no reported deaths in England NI. and Wales yesterday, with only one reported death in Scotland they will have to use these figures as a means to decide closing stuff down again (though I can't see Boris ever doing another full lockdown)
It's a GB problem rather than a UK one and in reality it's an English urban problem (with a shout to Glasgow). NI seems to be avoiding the Indian variant surge, some very healthy Covid stats released today.🤞
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 01, 2021, 04:02:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 01, 2021, 12:58:16 PM
Talk of a third wave in the UK, though the numbers are low and there was no reported deaths in England NI. and Wales yesterday, with only one reported death in Scotland they will have to use these figures as a means to decide closing stuff down again (though I can't see Boris ever doing another full lockdown)
If Covid spreads beyond the capacity of the UK to control it there will be another lockdown
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 01, 2021, 04:11:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 01, 2021, 04:02:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 01, 2021, 12:58:16 PM
Talk of a third wave in the UK, though the numbers are low and there was no reported deaths in England NI. and Wales yesterday, with only one reported death in Scotland they will have to use these figures as a means to decide closing stuff down again (though I can't see Boris ever doing another full lockdown)
If Covid spreads beyond the capacity of the UK to control it there will be another lockdown

Only 4 ppl over the age of 80 in the past 7 days have tested positive. It looks like the vaccination programme is working. Hospitalisations are down, only 20 inpatients. Belfast and Southern trust with no new inpatients in last 14 days.
That's it. Everything should be back to normal by July.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 01, 2021, 04:13:00 PM
Numbers are going up in Britain which is a worry. Usually when that happens it will effect here somehow. They do however need to start assessing lockdowns based on hospital cases not positive cases. I would be hopeful we'd be ok though I do see the UK starting to get banned from travelling places.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on June 01, 2021, 06:08:57 PM
Numbers in Tyrone here creeping up I believe
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 01, 2021, 06:16:49 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on June 01, 2021, 06:08:57 PM
Numbers in Tyrone here creeping up I believe

That's cause Angelo is off the board and polluting the Tyrone county!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 01, 2021, 06:22:54 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 01, 2021, 04:13:00 PM
Numbers are going up in Britain which is a worry. Usually when that happens it will effect here somehow. They do however need to start assessing lockdowns based on hospital cases not positive cases. I would be hopeful we'd be ok though I do see the UK starting to get banned from travelling places.

A substantially increasing rate is never a good thing, they should aim to keep things fairly stable even if it means postponing opening things for a week or two in some districts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on June 01, 2021, 06:56:03 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on June 01, 2021, 06:08:57 PM
Numbers in Tyrone here creeping up I believe

Eh??
Darren Marshall BBC twitter feed

#Coronavirus
Mid Ulster council area's seven day incidence rate is now 25.8 per 100,000 - the lowest rate recorded there in more than more than eight months.

It peaked at 942 / 100,000 in January.

#Dungannon #Coalisland #Stewartstown #Cookstown #Magherafelt #Maghera #Moy https://t.co/HZ0EyCy6Yb

Tuesday, June 1st

📊7 day rate: 24.4 / 100k

🦠+54 new cases
🦠0 deaths

🔹+8 Belfast
🔹+7 Armagh, B&C
🔹+7 Newry M & Down
🔹+6 Antrim & N'abbey
🔹+5 Derry Strabane
🔹+5 M&E Antrim
🔹+5 Mid Ulster
🔹+3 Causeway
🔹+3 Ferm & Omagh
🔹+1 Lisburn & C'reagh

🔹+4 Ards & N Down
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 01, 2021, 07:15:57 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 01, 2021, 06:56:03 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on June 01, 2021, 06:08:57 PM
Numbers in Tyrone here creeping up I believe

Eh??
Darren Marshall BBC twitter feed

#Coronavirus
Mid Ulster council area's seven day incidence rate is now 25.8 per 100,000 - the lowest rate recorded there in more than more than eight months.

It peaked at 942 / 100,000 in January.

#Dungannon #Coalisland #Stewartstown #Cookstown #Magherafelt #Maghera #Moy https://t.co/HZ0EyCy6Yb

Tuesday, June 1st

📊7 day rate: 24.4 / 100k

🦠+54 new cases
🦠0 deaths

🔹+8 Belfast
🔹+7 Armagh, B&C
🔹+7 Newry M & Down
🔹+6 Antrim & N'abbey
🔹+5 Derry Strabane
🔹+5 M&E Antrim
🔹+5 Mid Ulster
🔹+3 Causeway
🔹+3 Ferm & Omagh
🔹+1 Lisburn & C'reagh

🔹+4 Ards & N Down

No as this proves numbers are well down and inaccurate commentary is unhelpful.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on June 02, 2021, 07:29:45 PM
I personally know of one house with 5 positive
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on June 02, 2021, 10:19:49 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on June 02, 2021, 07:29:45 PM
I personally know of one house with 5 positive
Hardly surprising, of the 5 how many hospitalised is of more interest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2021, 11:17:36 PM
I hear there's a strain from Vietnam that's a derivative of the Indian strain. It's been imported back to China, and a state in China the size of France is in complete lockdown. Apparently this strain is more deadly and more airborne as opposed to touch spread. Goods are having a hard time getting out of that region because of it, and there's a media blackout in China about it.

My source is a contact in the trucking industry.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on June 03, 2021, 01:09:06 AM
Why can't match crowds even limited to 50% capacity for men's GAA games form part of the "outdoor summer" mantra.

Covid is over, it was over last February and was over in late April 2020.

It will be back again in October/ November in some other form and this is regardless of the vaccines. This is no longer about covid, never was really. Snowflake generation led by social media.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 03, 2021, 01:24:49 AM
Quote from: highorlow on June 03, 2021, 01:09:06 AM
Why can't match crowds even limited to 50% capacity for men's GAA games form part of the "outdoor summer" mantra.

Covid is over, it was over last February and was over in late April 2020.

It will be back again in October/ November in some other form and this is regardless of the vaccines. This is no longer about covid, never was really. Snowflake generation led by social media.

Go to bed and have a good night's sleep.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on June 03, 2021, 01:32:42 AM
Covid is the equivalent of a massive pile up on the m50 on a particular day where multiple deaths occurred as a result and the only solution then was to close the m50 for as long as it takes to convince the public that the closure was the correct solution.

The public have found other roads. This bank holiday weekend will be a major freedom celebration, one can already sense it among the younger folk around Dublin. Thank goodness for them.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 03, 2021, 01:39:26 AM
Quote from: highorlow on June 03, 2021, 01:32:42 AM
Covid is the equivalent of a massive pile up on the m50 on a particular day where multiple deaths occurred as a result and the only solution then was to close the m50 for as long as it takes to convince the public that the closure was the correct solution.

The public have found other roads. This bank holiday weekend will be a major freedom celebration, one can already sense it among the younger folk around Dublin. Thank goodness for them.

Yes, thank God for gurriers, we will have them always.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on June 03, 2021, 03:35:10 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 03, 2021, 01:24:49 AM
Quote from: highorlow on June 03, 2021, 01:09:06 AM
Why can't match crowds even limited to 50% capacity for men's GAA games form part of the "outdoor summer" mantra.

Covid is over, it was over last February and was over in late April 2020.

It will be back again in October/ November in some other form and this is regardless of the vaccines. This is no longer about covid, never was really. Snowflake generation led by social media.

Go to bed and have a good night's sleep.
there was 135k at Indy 500
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2021, 07:36:15 AM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2021, 03:35:10 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 03, 2021, 01:24:49 AM
Quote from: highorlow on June 03, 2021, 01:09:06 AM
Why can't match crowds even limited to 50% capacity for men's GAA games form part of the "outdoor summer" mantra.

Covid is over, it was over last February and was over in late April 2020.

It will be back again in October/ November in some other form and this is regardless of the vaccines. This is no longer about covid, never was really. Snowflake generation led by social media.

Go to bed and have a good night's sleep.
there was 135k at Indy 500

Are we to follow the US policies on Covid? Cause they did a grand job...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on June 03, 2021, 09:07:08 AM
Individual states more or less did their own thing. Some imposed extreme measures, some quite relaxed. Hasn't appeared to have made much difference which approach was used, the average health of the population a much bigger factor I'd say.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: maddog on June 03, 2021, 09:23:11 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2021, 11:17:36 PM
I hear there's a strain from Vietnam that's a derivative of the Indian strain. It's been imported back to China, and a state in China the size of France is in complete lockdown. Apparently this strain is more deadly and more airborne as opposed to touch spread. Goods are having a hard time getting out of that region because of it, and there's a media blackout in China about it.

My source is a contact in the trucking industry.

Yantian operating at about 30% capacity due to outbreak. As well as the health side of it there will be a knock on effect in terms of supply of goods westbound. They will likely use it to increase shipping rates out of China due to capacity being squeezed. Few years ago a 40ft box China into Europe was about $2000 now its $10,000.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 03, 2021, 04:40:59 PM
Quote from: Last Man on June 03, 2021, 09:07:08 AM
Individual states more or less did their own thing. Some imposed extreme measures, some quite relaxed. Hasn't appeared to have made much difference which approach was used, the average health of the population a much bigger factor I'd say.

Got a source for that claim?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on June 03, 2021, 06:18:55 PM
Quote from: Last Man on June 03, 2021, 09:07:08 AM
Individual states more or less did their own thing. Some imposed extreme measures, some quite relaxed. Hasn't appeared to have made much difference which approach was used, the average health of the population a much bigger factor I'd say.
you are correct and New York, New Jersey and Massachusetts have the most deaths per 100k with New Jersey the most at 295 per 100k and all above would have had a strict lockdown.
Hawaii Vermont and Alaska are the bottom of chart .
Of the 580k deaths 520k plus over 60 also take into account a 30/35% obesity rate in adults seriously making virus much more deadly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 03, 2021, 10:21:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2021, 06:18:55 PM
Quote from: Last Man on June 03, 2021, 09:07:08 AM
Individual states more or less did their own thing. Some imposed extreme measures, some quite relaxed. Hasn't appeared to have made much difference which approach was used, the average health of the population a much bigger factor I'd say.
you are correct and New York, New Jersey and Massachusetts have the most deaths per 100k with New Jersey the most at 295 per 100k and all above would have had a strict lockdown.
Hawaii Vermont and Alaska are the bottom of chart .
Of the 580k deaths 520k plus over 60 also take into account a 30/35% obesity rate in adults seriously making virus much more deadly.

Which id the chicken and which is the egg here? Places with fewer cases for whatever reason did not need harsh restrictions, this with a lot of cases needed a lot of restrictions to get things under control.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 04, 2021, 11:16:35 AM
Got my second moderna vaccine on Wednesday. Worse after-effects than dose one. Thankfully I feel back to normal today. Thanks to Evil Genius for preparing me for it with an article he posted on this or the vaccine thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on June 04, 2021, 01:24:55 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 03, 2021, 10:21:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 03, 2021, 06:18:55 PM
Quote from: Last Man on June 03, 2021, 09:07:08 AM
Individual states more or less did their own thing. Some imposed extreme measures, some quite relaxed. Hasn't appeared to have made much difference which approach was used, the average health of the population a much bigger factor I'd say.
you are correct and New York, New Jersey and Massachusetts have the most deaths per 100k with New Jersey the most at 295 per 100k and all above would have had a strict lockdown.
Hawaii Vermont and Alaska are the bottom of chart .
Of the 580k deaths 520k plus over 60 also take into account a 30/35% obesity rate in adults seriously making virus much more deadly.

Which id the chicken and which is the egg here? Places with fewer cases for whatever reason did not need harsh restrictions, this with a lot of cases needed a lot of restrictions to get things under control.
What I am saying there are plenty of deaths regardless of lockdowns. The virus just works it's way through the population and the weakest suffer. Some places have more susceptible people, some less. It only takes one example to disprove a hypothesis and you then have to adapt it accordingly. Can't keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.
Have to say I am no longer frightened of this thing and have gone back to taking more heed of the real modern day diseases like Cancer, diabetes and heart disease.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 05, 2021, 09:29:36 PM
Kilkeel is so keen on their Imperial identity that they have adopted the Indian variant of Covid. They should seal off the whole town.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 05, 2021, 09:58:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 05, 2021, 09:29:36 PM
Kilkeel is so keen on their Imperial identity that they have adopted the Indian variant of Covid. They should seal off the whole town.

Are the Simpsons still using that big glass dome?  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 05, 2021, 09:58:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 05, 2021, 09:29:36 PM
Kilkeel is so keen on their Imperial identity that they have adopted the Indian variant of Covid. They should seal off the whole town.
Followed by a napalm strike.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Olly on June 05, 2021, 10:44:32 PM
My uncle died tonight in a loose connection to the Covid.

He was a quiet man who liked reading the Irish News and eating toasted soda bread. At the start of the pandemic, he took to fishing and a year later he had bought his own boat and was fishing furiously. His boat burnt to the ground yesterday as he had toast on but was drunk. He died swimming to shore as he was cut down by a speedboat.

RIP Alphonsis.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 05, 2021, 10:52:12 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 05, 2021, 09:58:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 05, 2021, 09:29:36 PM
Kilkeel is so keen on their Imperial identity that they have adopted the Indian variant of Covid. They should seal off the whole town.
Followed by a napalm strike.

That might have a cleansing effect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on June 06, 2021, 12:04:38 AM
Quote from: Olly on June 05, 2021, 10:44:32 PM
My uncle died tonight in a loose connection to the Covid.

He was a quiet man who liked reading the Irish News and eating toasted soda bread. At the start of the pandemic, he took to fishing and a year later he had bought his own boat and was fishing furiously. His boat burnt to the ground yesterday as he had toast on but was drunk. He died swimming to shore as he was cut down by a speedboat.

RIP Alphonsis.

I had toasted soda this morn. Im a bit concerned im not gona lie. RIP fonsie obvs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2021, 11:37:52 AM
Kids complaining about not being able to drink on the Dublin streets? Was it ever legal?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on June 06, 2021, 02:11:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2021, 11:37:52 AM
Kids complaining about not being able to drink on the Dublin streets? Was it ever legal?
Funny you should say that. Belfast crawling with free staters this weekend due to everything still closed down there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on June 06, 2021, 03:20:03 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on June 06, 2021, 02:11:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2021, 11:37:52 AM
Kids complaining about not being able to drink on the Dublin streets? Was it ever legal?
Funny you should say that. Belfast crawling with free staters this weekend due to everything still closed down there.

And for balance Donegals beaches full of wannabe free staters. f**kers cant drive for sh×te either. ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on June 06, 2021, 03:21:47 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on June 06, 2021, 02:11:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2021, 11:37:52 AM
Kids complaining about not being able to drink on the Dublin streets? Was it ever legal?
Funny you should say that. Belfast crawling with free staters this weekend due to everything still closed down there.
Couldn't believe the number of southern Reg cars in the car park behind the Europa. At least 2:1. Great to see!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 06, 2021, 03:56:55 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 06, 2021, 03:20:03 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on June 06, 2021, 02:11:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2021, 11:37:52 AM
Kids complaining about not being able to drink on the Dublin streets? Was it ever legal?
Funny you should say that. Belfast crawling with free staters this weekend due to everything still closed down there.

And for balance Donegals beaches full of wannabe free staters. f**kers cant drive for sh×te either. ;D
Send them to Limerick ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 06, 2021, 03:58:17 PM
ROI weekly update.

Three million Covid-19 vaccines have now been administered.

Cases 2845 (54 fewer than last week)
In hospital 70 (29 fewer than a week ago)
In ICU 27 (8 fewer than last Sunday)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 06, 2021, 06:45:33 PM
Great to see the Hospital numbers dropping so much.
Still I wouldn't want to be one of the 27. Hopefully they'll all pull through.
I wonder will many of the Dublin eejits/scumbags get infected.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 06, 2021, 07:28:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 06, 2021, 06:45:33 PM
Great to see the Hospital numbers dropping so much.
Still I wouldn't want to be one of the 27. Hopefully they'll all pull through.
I wonder will many of the Dublin eejits/scumbags get infected.

It is great. Maybe if they actually opened the pubs up safely like in the North the scummy things wouldn't happen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2021, 08:50:04 PM
So I'll get back to my point, is it legal to drink in the streets in Dublin? And why are people complaining when the police enforce the law?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on June 06, 2021, 09:34:33 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 06, 2021, 07:28:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 06, 2021, 06:45:33 PM
Great to see the Hospital numbers dropping so much.
Still I wouldn't want to be one of the 27. Hopefully they'll all pull through.
I wonder will many of the Dublin eejits/scumbags get infected.

It is great. Maybe if they actually opened the pubs up safely like in the North the scummy things wouldn't happen.

still too risky for fg and ff
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 07, 2021, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: clarshack on June 07, 2021, 10:04:33 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 06, 2021, 06:45:33 PM
Great to see the Hospital numbers dropping so much.
Still I wouldn't want to be one of the 27. Hopefully they'll all pull through.
I wonder will many of the Dublin eejits/scumbags get infected.
No, because as the protests in London and Dublin have shown along with the Rangers supporters in Belfast and Glasgow, it is virtually impossible to catch Covid outdoors.
You should know this by now.

That religious festival in India didn't bring about problems with covid thankfully...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on June 08, 2021, 04:54:23 PM
271 "cases" today, next two weeks are vital, hold firm
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on June 08, 2021, 07:05:50 PM
(https://scontent.fdub5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/102861277_10220307477069961_8036418747830228154_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8024bb&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=x_DuLoskCE8AX9xdKb2&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub5-1.fna&tp=14&oh=af16e2451bc217623c1fa38528920fc7&oe=60E48B4D)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 08, 2021, 09:38:55 PM
Quack medicine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on June 09, 2021, 06:57:16 AM
In the post analysis in the years ahead it will be proven restrictions went on too long , absolute farce to have restrictions still in place when the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated.  Beginning of August in Ireland everything should be opened up but they wont for reasons that dont make sense .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on June 09, 2021, 08:23:17 AM
The few ongoing restrictions make perfect sense to me but thankfully we have the Internet Department of Epidemiology and Public Health to put us right
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on June 09, 2021, 10:59:54 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on June 09, 2021, 06:57:16 AM
In the post analysis in the years ahead it will be proven restrictions went on too long , absolute farce to have restrictions still in place when the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated.  Beginning of August in Ireland everything should be opened up but they wont for reasons that dont make sense .
Absolutely. No reason for anyone under 70 (without underlying conditions)to be worried and everyone else has or should have jab by now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 09, 2021, 02:34:30 PM
This data is from June 3rd and gives a decent idea of the vaccination situation in ROI.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E29iq4PVEA0U5vY?format=jpg&name=large)

Not sure how many of 70 age plus group are vaccinated in NI though across all age groups 720k has been fully vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 09, 2021, 03:46:27 PM
It is notably that fewer people in the 60-69 group have had the second jab since they were given AZ and a 12 weeks interval whereas younger people 50-59 are getting second jabs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on June 10, 2021, 09:56:52 AM
Looking like Executive is going to allow return to live music soon.

Any word of actually being allowed to go to the bar or of nightclubs opening?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 10, 2021, 10:04:46 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 10, 2021, 09:56:52 AM
Looking like Executive is going to allow return to live music soon.

Any word of actually being allowed to go to the bar or of nightclubs opening?

Bars are open?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on June 10, 2021, 10:51:10 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 10, 2021, 10:04:46 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 10, 2021, 09:56:52 AM
Looking like Executive is going to allow return to live music soon.

Any word of actually being allowed to go to the bar or of nightclubs opening?

Bars are open?
I mean get served/sit at the bar as opposed to table service only.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2021, 10:54:29 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 10, 2021, 10:51:10 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 10, 2021, 10:04:46 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 10, 2021, 09:56:52 AM
Looking like Executive is going to allow return to live music soon.

Any word of actually being allowed to go to the bar or of nightclubs opening?

Bars are open?
I mean get served/sit at the bar as opposed to table service only.

I'm enjoying the table service TBH, means I only have to get up to go to the bog!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on June 10, 2021, 03:32:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2021, 08:23:17 AM
The few ongoing restrictions make perfect sense to me but thankfully we have the Internet Department of Epidemiology and Public Health to put us right

A few on going restrictions make zero sense to me.

For example, according to nphet advice, its safe to currently sit in a cinema but not safe for indoor dinning until July. 200 has been attending Mass indoors in the basilica and cathedrals since early May and 100 can only attend the majority matches outdoors this month.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 10, 2021, 03:38:10 PM
Perhaps the shenanigans after a lot of games last August/September might just be still in NPHET 's memory.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 10, 2021, 08:15:42 PM
People are being a bit obtuse here. In cinemas or churches you have to wear a mask, something you do not do in hospitality. You could have dining well spaced out, but the restaurant s claim that they cannot make money at this configuration.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 10, 2021, 08:21:56 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 10, 2021, 03:38:10 PM
Perhaps the shenanigans after a lot of games last August/September might just be still in NPHET 's memory.

True, but there's a helluva lot progress with vaccines since then.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on June 10, 2021, 08:56:35 PM
Met my first 'second covid-positive' person today. First was March 2020, second May 2021. No jab in between.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on June 10, 2021, 09:46:59 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 10, 2021, 03:32:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 09, 2021, 08:23:17 AM
The few ongoing restrictions make perfect sense to me but thankfully we have the Internet Department of Epidemiology and Public Health to put us right

A few on going restrictions make zero sense to me.

For example, according to nphet advice, its safe to currently sit in a cinema but not safe for indoor dinning until July. 200 has been attending Mass indoors in the basilica and cathedrals since early May and 100 can only attend the majority matches outdoors this month.
So you want everything to open simultaneously, yes?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on June 10, 2021, 10:08:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 10, 2021, 09:46:59 PM
So you want everything to open simultaneously, yes?
No, what i want is an easing of restrictions to make sense. If we can have situation that allows 200 people attend indoors then 400 to 500 should be allowed to attend outdoors.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 10, 2021, 08:15:42 PM
People are being a bit obtuse here. In cinemas or churches you have to wear a mask, something you do not do in hospitality. You could have dining well spaced out, but the restaurant s claim that they cannot make money at this configuration.
Face coverings is only mandatory when you are not in your seat in a cinema and you are allowed to eat and drink while watching a movie. At mass they receive communion and it seems to be one environment that people loves to clear their throat In. Still loads of hand shaking and hugging from the funerals I watched online



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on June 10, 2021, 11:18:11 PM
Quote from: ONeill on June 10, 2021, 08:56:35 PM
Met my first 'second covid-positive' person today. First was March 2020, second May 2021. No jab in between.

Interesting, O'Neill. How did it effect them first and second time? Eg did their residual immunity from the first infection lessen the effects of the second bout?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on June 11, 2021, 08:49:05 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 10, 2021, 10:08:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 10, 2021, 09:46:59 PM
So you want everything to open simultaneously, yes?
No, what i want is an easing of restrictions to make sense. If we can have situation that allows 200 people attend indoors then 400 to 500 should be allowed to attend outdoors.
The only way easing of restrictions can make "logical sense" is if they're all done simultaneously

Because when they are not done simultaneously, certain people will always lose out and it will seem arbitrary and unfair whichever way you do it

There's no way around this

This is happening because there's a far bigger "logical sense" at play here and that is that opening everything at once would be crazy


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 11, 2021, 11:12:04 AM
Robin Swann would give ye the skitter. We need things to continue to open up with the vaccine roll out or else quite rightly people will ask why should I get the jab. We need plenty of carrot and a little less stick.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on June 11, 2021, 02:27:35 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 11, 2021, 02:11:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 11, 2021, 11:12:04 AM
Robin Swann would give ye the skitter. We need things to continue to open up with the vaccine roll out or else quite rightly people will ask why should I get the jab. We need plenty of carrot and a little less stick.

Van Morrison not a fan of wee Robbie Swann either lol
Van Morrison has lost the plot
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 11, 2021, 02:30:32 PM
Open ur eyes to the covid lies posters starting to appear on a lot of lamp posts in belfast :o

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 11, 2021, 02:39:20 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 11, 2021, 02:11:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 11, 2021, 11:12:04 AM
Robin Swann would give ye the skitter. We need things to continue to open up with the vaccine roll out or else quite rightly people will ask why should I get the jab. We need plenty of carrot and a little less stick.

Van Morrison not a fan of wee Robbie Swann either lol

Van is a complete tool bag. And as for Ian Og... wiser eating grass.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 11, 2021, 02:58:45 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 11, 2021, 02:30:32 PM
Open ur eyes to the covid lies posters starting to appear on a lot of lamp posts in belfast :o

Who's actually paying for these posters? nuts
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 11, 2021, 03:18:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 11, 2021, 02:58:45 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 11, 2021, 02:30:32 PM
Open ur eyes to the covid lies posters starting to appear on a lot of lamp posts in belfast :o

Who's actually paying for these posters? nuts

Window cleaners seem to be a united front of Covid deniers! And they a have ladders!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 11, 2021, 03:26:04 PM
A boy I work with thinks the whole covid thing is a pile of shite and doesn't believe in vaccines. He said his boiler repair man agreed with him ;D I do wonder what you say to someone who you don't agree with but is paying your wages really when they say something you blatantly think is absolute horeshit lol. (then again maybe he did agree).

MR tbf I don't think they are big budget posters ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on June 11, 2021, 03:52:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 11, 2021, 08:49:05 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 10, 2021, 10:08:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 10, 2021, 09:46:59 PM
So you want everything to open simultaneously, yes?
No, what i want is an easing of restrictions to make sense. If we can have situation that allows 200 people attend indoors then 400 to 500 should be allowed to attend outdoors.
The only way easing of restrictions can make "logical sense" is if they're all done simultaneously

Because when they are not done simultaneously, certain people will always lose out and it will seem arbitrary and unfair whichever way you do it

There's no way around this

This is happening because there's a far bigger "logical sense" at play here and that is that opening everything at once would be crazy

Not sure how you come to that conclusion. Opening things simultaneously was never on while having a bit more logic towards what was or is eased was very possible.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on June 12, 2021, 04:22:46 PM
BoJo putting back freedom day to 19th July. That's him fecked now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 13, 2021, 11:16:56 AM
It is a bit like Ireland at Christmas, the opening plan was reasonable enough but a new variant kiboshed it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 13, 2021, 11:49:30 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 12, 2021, 04:22:46 PM
BoJo putting back freedom day to 19th July. That's him fecked now.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/face-third-wave-covid-19-die-may-already-have-cast/
The raw data does not look good. Cases of the delta variant have been growing exponentially from a low base since early May, and for the past seven days have averaged about 5,000 new cases a day.



It now appears to have settled at or about R1.5 with a doubling time of nine days. If you start from 5,000 and double three times you get to 40,000 cases a day by early July. If you double that again you get to 80,000 cases nine days later – a number that bursts through the January peak.



There is uncertainty around the magnitude of the change in vaccine effectiveness after two doses of Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine," said its latest report.


The same report revealed that of the 42 people known to have died so far with the delta variant in the UK, 29 per cent (12 people) were fully vaccinated. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 13, 2021, 07:49:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 13, 2021, 11:49:30 AM
The same report revealed that of the 42 people known to have died so far with the delta variant in the UK, 29 per cent (12 people) were fully vaccinated.

Was only a matter of time the way they continually f**ked about with border controls.

A handful of people forcefully quarantined for 2 weeks on arrival will look mighty cheap if this all explodes again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 13, 2021, 07:51:29 PM
ROI weekly update

Cases 2370 (475 fewer cases than last week and the lowest weekly case number since December)
In hospital 62 (8 fewer than a week ago)
In ICU 22 ( 5 fewer than last Sunday)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 01:43:04 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57467051

I find it hard not get dismayed when a public broadcaster feels I'm the need to describe hay fever as Covid.

As has been the case from March 2020, propaganda and news have been remarkably easy bedfellows.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 15, 2021, 01:46:40 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 01:43:04 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57467051

I find it hard not get dismayed when a public broadcaster feels I'm the need to describe hay fever as Covid.

As has been the case from March 2020, propaganda and news have been remarkably easy bedfellows.
What's the issue here?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 01:50:10 PM
It's peak hay fever season. Those are hay fever symptoms.

That article is telling me that Covid, which behaves similarly to pneumonia and flu in the winter time, is now hiding in plain sight as hay fever in the summertime.

It doesn't.

It's just hay fever.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 15, 2021, 01:55:05 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 01:50:10 PM
It's peak hay fever season. Those are hay fever symptoms.

That article is telling me that Covid, which behaves similarly to pneumonia and flu in the winter time, is now hiding in plain sight as hay fever in the summertime.

It doesn't.

It's just hay fever.
This is symptoms from confirmed COVID cases.

You do realise a symptom for one illness doesn't exclude it from being a symptom for another illness. If they just have hay fever, they won't test positive for COVID. You do understand that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 02:12:53 PM
In this context I understand plenty.

The reason why there's been an increase in recent months of Covid sufferers with symptoms of sore throats and runny noses, can be deduced just as quickly as the reason why roughly 90% of all crimes are committed by right handed people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 15, 2021, 02:27:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 02:12:53 PM
In this context I understand plenty.

The reason why there's been an increase in recent months of Covid sufferers with symptoms of sore throats and runny noses, can be deduced just as quickly as the reason why roughly 90% of all crimes are committed by right handed people.

f**king hell thewobbler, I think you should contact these researchers and let them know that you've sorted this out.

Its obviously never occurred to these amateurs that seasonal allergies are a problem for people in spring and early summer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 15, 2021, 02:29:44 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 02:12:53 PM
In this context I understand plenty.

The reason why there's been an increase in recent months of Covid sufferers with symptoms of sore throats and runny noses, can be deduced just as quickly as the reason why roughly 90% of all crimes are committed by right handed people.
Your making a big assumption that it's hayfever giving the symptoms not COVID. You've no way of knowing that. But that's beside the point to be honest. The reality is that it's just reporting the symptoms that people tested positive with COVID have declared. Hardly something to get dismayed about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 02:37:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 15, 2021, 02:27:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 02:12:53 PM
In this context I understand plenty.

The reason why there's been an increase in recent months of Covid sufferers with symptoms of sore throats and runny noses, can be deduced just as quickly as the reason why roughly 90% of all crimes are committed by right handed people.

f**king hell thewobbler, I think you should contact these researchers and let them know that you've sorted this out.

Its obviously never occurred to these amateurs that seasonal allergies are a problem for people in spring and early summer.


Of course they're aware of it.

But do you know something J70? The fact that neither the article nor the quotes mentions hay fever suggests they do not wish to entertain or acknowledge the obvious.

Staying relevant is vital for one of these organisation's oxygen. I'd have sincerely hoped that the other organisation would only give them that oxygen when needed. It's not a big ask.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 02:41:22 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 15, 2021, 02:29:44 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 02:12:53 PM
In this context I understand plenty.

The reason why there's been an increase in recent months of Covid sufferers with symptoms of sore throats and runny noses, can be deduced just as quickly as the reason why roughly 90% of all crimes are committed by right handed people.
Your making a big assumption that it's hayfever giving the symptoms not COVID. You've no way of knowing that. But that's beside the point to be honest. The reality is that it's just reporting the symptoms that people tested positive with COVID have declared. Hardly something to get dismayed about.

I'm not making any assumptions at all.

Between 20 and 25% of the UK population suffers from hay fever, and they suffer greatest between May and July.

There are no assumptions needed.

This data may be real but the correlation is nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 15, 2021, 02:46:43 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 02:37:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 15, 2021, 02:27:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 02:12:53 PM
In this context I understand plenty.

The reason why there's been an increase in recent months of Covid sufferers with symptoms of sore throats and runny noses, can be deduced just as quickly as the reason why roughly 90% of all crimes are committed by right handed people.

f**king hell thewobbler, I think you should contact these researchers and let them know that you've sorted this out.

Its obviously never occurred to these amateurs that seasonal allergies are a problem for people in spring and early summer.


Of course they're aware of it.

But do you know something J70? The fact that neither the article nor the quotes mentions hay fever suggests they do not wish to entertain or acknowledge the obvious.

Staying relevant is vital for one of these organisation's oxygen. I'd have sincerely hoped that the other organisation would only give them that oxygen when needed. It's not a big ask.

Have you even looked at who the organization behind the Zoe Covid Symptom study are?

Massachusetts General and Kings College London are two of the creators. They're collaborating with a host of other organizations including the Harvard and University of Texas' Schools of Public Health.

They're not some lowly community college researcher who barely scraped a third class honours degree.

As for the article, its a brief story on the BBC, not some in-depth academic paper or even a review in a dedicated medical or science magazine. Its not meant to go into the details of the research and analysis and whatever statistical controls they put in to account for potential confounding data.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 03:28:59 PM
Here's how the article should have been penned:

Title: Headache and runny nose linked to Delta variant, with seasonal factors potentially at play.

Synopsis: A headache, sore throat and runny nose are now the most commonly reported symptoms linked to Covid infection in the UK, researchers say. Though as these symptoms spike annually in tandem with pollen counts, these findings should not be unexpected.

——

There is a world of difference between what I've written and what the BBC have published. The BBC have penned a Covid propaganda piece.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 15, 2021, 03:29:22 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 02:41:22 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 15, 2021, 02:29:44 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 02:12:53 PM
In this context I understand plenty.

The reason why there's been an increase in recent months of Covid sufferers with symptoms of sore throats and runny noses, can be deduced just as quickly as the reason why roughly 90% of all crimes are committed by right handed people.
Your making a big assumption that it's hayfever giving the symptoms not COVID. You've no way of knowing that. But that's beside the point to be honest. The reality is that it's just reporting the symptoms that people tested positive with COVID have declared. Hardly something to get dismayed about.

I'm not making any assumptions at all.

Between 20 and 25% of the UK population suffers from hay fever, and they suffer greatest between May and July.

There are no assumptions needed.

This data may be real but the correlation is nonsense.

Any similar with symptoms would merely increase the number being tested, it would not show any more having Covid unless they had Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 15, 2021, 03:41:28 PM
The vaccines work. Get vaccinated. Get your kids vaccinated and this disappears.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on June 15, 2021, 03:44:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 15, 2021, 03:41:28 PM
The vaccines work. Get vaccinated. Get your kids vaccinated and this disappears.
Theres enough vaccinated now that case numbers should be irrelevant. They keep moving the goalposts and trying to scare people with these variants.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 15, 2021, 04:06:39 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 02:41:22 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 15, 2021, 02:29:44 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 02:12:53 PM
In this context I understand plenty.

The reason why there's been an increase in recent months of Covid sufferers with symptoms of sore throats and runny noses, can be deduced just as quickly as the reason why roughly 90% of all crimes are committed by right handed people.
Your making a big assumption that it's hayfever giving the symptoms not COVID. You've no way of knowing that. But that's beside the point to be honest. The reality is that it's just reporting the symptoms that people tested positive with COVID have declared. Hardly something to get dismayed about.

I'm not making any assumptions at all.

Between 20 and 25% of the UK population suffers from hay fever, and they suffer greatest between May and July.

There are no assumptions needed.

This data may be real but the correlation is nonsense.
So if you take those figures and apply it across the people that have COVID and suffering this effects that still leaves 75-80% who still have the symptoms but not hay fever. Still worth the population being aware. I'm really struggling with your annoyance at this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 04:20:38 PM
I'm not following your figures True Blue. Especially the 75-80%.

Probably in no short way because the article doesn't contain any actual figures (just sweeping statements), and my attempts to find a related data sheet or news article on Covid Symptom Study site, aren't producing anything.

I think we are both running blind on this one. The only difference being I prefer to ask why I'm being told to run blind, rather than just assume the voices will guide me.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 15, 2021, 04:23:13 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 03:28:59 PM
Here's how the article should have been penned:

Title: Headache and runny nose linked to Delta variant, with seasonal factors potentially at play.

Synopsis: A headache, sore throat and runny nose are now the most commonly reported symptoms linked to Covid infection in the UK, researchers say. Though as these symptoms spike annually in tandem with pollen counts, these findings should not be unexpected.

——

There is a world of difference between what I've written and what the BBC have published. The BBC have penned a Covid propaganda piece.

Have you read the original research, even the abstract (assuming its published)? Are you getting your headline and synopsis from that, or from your own personal assumptions and opinions?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 15, 2021, 04:29:10 PM
I'm using your figure that the general population has 20-25% of people that suffer hayfever.
So you can apply that % against the number who contract Covid. (Rough sums obviously but you'd expect a similar % to the general population).
That still leaves a fairly high % who wouldn't have hayfever within the Covid cases.

But as I mentioned it's a pretty weird thing to be getting annoyed about either way. There's no scaremongering going on, it's just reporting facts. It mentions the loss of taste that everyone was aware of is less prevalent. There's absolutely nothing in there that should annoy anyone, unless you wanted to be annoyed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 15, 2021, 04:30:38 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 15, 2021, 03:44:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 15, 2021, 03:41:28 PM
The vaccines work. Get vaccinated. Get your kids vaccinated and this disappears.
Theres enough vaccinated now that case numbers should be irrelevant. They keep moving the goalposts and trying to scare people with these variants.

They'll be forever moving the goalposts, and there'll always be another variant.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 15, 2021, 04:40:24 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 04:20:38 PM
I'm not following your figures True Blue. Especially the 75-80%.

Probably in no short way because the article doesn't contain any actual figures (just sweeping statements), and my attempts to find a related data sheet or news article on Covid Symptom Study site, aren't producing anything.

I think we are both running blind on this one. The only difference being I prefer to ask why I'm being told to run blind, rather than just assume the voices will guide me.

Ok, so you haven't read the research itself or anything beyond the tiny BBC piece.

Which means you don't know what you're talking about with respect to the research itself, no more than the rest of us who haven't looked further into it.

You're a very sensible, smart contributor to the board, in my opinion, but this Spector guy is a head of department at Kings College London. You don't ascend to that position or get to be involved in an international collaboration with leading hospitals and universities by being a quack or a charlatan. Your objections are at the level of mistakes that an undergrad science student would be laughed out of their advisor's office for.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 04:42:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 15, 2021, 04:23:13 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 03:28:59 PM
Here's how the article should have been penned:

Title: Headache and runny nose linked to Delta variant, with seasonal factors potentially at play.

Synopsis: A headache, sore throat and runny nose are now the most commonly reported symptoms linked to Covid infection in the UK, researchers say. Though as these symptoms spike annually in tandem with pollen counts, these findings should not be unexpected.

——

There is a world of difference between what I've written and what the BBC have published. The BBC have penned a Covid propaganda piece.

Have you read the original research, even the abstract (assuming its published)? Are you getting your headline and synopsis from that, or from your own personal assumptions and opinions?

There's really nothing personal or assumptive in what I write.

There has been a spike in Covid sufferers having hay fever symptoms, when pollen is at its highest.

The BBC have an article that uses a headline and intro to suggest correlation of Covid and these symptoms.

Then it neither presents research nor links to back this up. And nor is there any acknowledgement of the seasonality of the symptoms. No figures. No analysis. No research on display. No queries. Just a big bastard Covid headline. In essence it's a Covid fear story.

Why oh why oh why oh why would anyone support this type of journalism as being a service ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 04:46:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 15, 2021, 04:40:24 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 04:20:38 PM
I'm not following your figures True Blue. Especially the 75-80%.

Probably in no short way because the article doesn't contain any actual figures (just sweeping statements), and my attempts to find a related data sheet or news article on Covid Symptom Study site, aren't producing anything.

I think we are both running blind on this one. The only difference being I prefer to ask why I'm being told to run blind, rather than just assume the voices will guide me.

Ok, so you haven't read the research itself or anything beyond the tiny BBC piece.

Which means you don't know what you're talking about with respect to the research itself, no more than the rest of us who haven't looked further into it.

You're a very sensible, smart contributor to the board, in my opinion, but this Spector guy is a head of department at Kings College London. You don't ascend to that position or get to be involved in an international collaboration with leading hospitals and universities by being a quack or a charlatan. Your objections are at the level of mistakes that an undergrad science student would be laughed out of their advisor's office for.

I've had a good hoke through their site trying to find research and articles on common symptoms. I can't find anything that backs up or reflects this research.

Considering the BBC published this a day ago, I didn't think I'd have to work this hard to find it.

You don't need to be so quick to defend all things science. I do believe in this instance they've been misrepresented.

There's something very amiss in how this has been reported. And I do believe that the research piece which should have been available in tandem, has been removed so it can be reconsidered or repositioned.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 15, 2021, 05:05:12 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 04:46:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 15, 2021, 04:40:24 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 15, 2021, 04:20:38 PM
I'm not following your figures True Blue. Especially the 75-80%.

Probably in no short way because the article doesn't contain any actual figures (just sweeping statements), and my attempts to find a related data sheet or news article on Covid Symptom Study site, aren't producing anything.

I think we are both running blind on this one. The only difference being I prefer to ask why I'm being told to run blind, rather than just assume the voices will guide me.

Ok, so you haven't read the research itself or anything beyond the tiny BBC piece.

Which means you don't know what you're talking about with respect to the research itself, no more than the rest of us who haven't looked further into it.

You're a very sensible, smart contributor to the board, in my opinion, but this Spector guy is a head of department at Kings College London. You don't ascend to that position or get to be involved in an international collaboration with leading hospitals and universities by being a quack or a charlatan. Your objections are at the level of mistakes that an undergrad science student would be laughed out of their advisor's office for.

I've had a good hoke through their site trying to find research and articles on common symptoms. I can't find anything that backs up or reflects this research.

Considering the BBC published this a day ago, I didn't think I'd have to work this hard to find it.

You don't need to be so quick to defend all things science. I do believe in this instance they've been misrepresented.

There's something very amiss in how this has been reported. And I do believe that the research piece which should have been available in tandem, has been removed so it can be reconsidered or repositioned.

But you've nothing on which to base your belief that they've been misrepresented. The article is just quoting what Spector says, verbally, in the linked video. The research itself, given that he says they're seeing the change in symptoms among covid cases since May, may not even have been published yet.

As trubeblue says, the whole point is to warn people, especially the young (and that's mainly who they're talking about) that the typical symptoms have changed with this Delta variant and that they shouldn't be cavalier and dismiss the symptoms as a heavy cold and just go on about their lives seeing other people, especially because this new variant is so much more transmissible. Its a PSA. They saw concerning data, and instead of sitting on it they did the right thing and went public.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 09:45:31 AM
And so it begins. Get jabbed or lose your job.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 10:00:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 09:45:31 AM
And so it begins. Get jabbed or lose your job.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264)

Are you against the protection of the elderly and most vulnerable in care homes?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on June 16, 2021, 10:00:55 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 09:45:31 AM
And so it begins. Get jabbed or lose your job.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264)
This is absolutely disgusting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 16, 2021, 10:01:35 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 10:00:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 09:45:31 AM
And so it begins. Get jabbed or lose your job.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264)

Are you against the protection of the elderly and most vulnerable in care homes?

This is about saving lives and bringing an end to the pandemic. People would want to wake the f**k up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on June 16, 2021, 10:01:40 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 10:00:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 09:45:31 AM
And so it begins. Get jabbed or lose your job.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264)

Are you against the protection of the elderly and most vulnerable in care homes?
If they want protected then they can get the jab. It's no one else's business who has it and who hasn't!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 10:04:10 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 16, 2021, 10:01:40 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 10:00:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 09:45:31 AM
And so it begins. Get jabbed or lose your job.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264)

Are you against the protection of the elderly and most vulnerable in care homes?
If they want protected then they can get the jab. It's no one else's business who has it and who hasn't!!!

I'd say its the business of those nearest and dearest to the care home residents. I'd say it's the business of work colleagues in the care homes, cleaners in the care homes, visitors in the care homes and most importantly, the residents in the care homes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on June 16, 2021, 11:21:03 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 10:04:10 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 16, 2021, 10:01:40 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 10:00:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 09:45:31 AM
And so it begins. Get jabbed or lose your job.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264)

Are you against the protection of the elderly and most vulnerable in care homes?
If they want protected then they can get the jab. It's no one else's business who has it and who hasn't!!!

I'd say its the business of those nearest and dearest to the care home residents. I'd say it's the business of work colleagues in the care homes, cleaners in the care homes, visitors in the care homes and most importantly, the residents in the care homes.
I'd say it's not. Someones health care is their own business and no one elses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 11:38:13 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 10:00:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 09:45:31 AM
And so it begins. Get jabbed or lose your job.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264)

Are you against the protection of the elderly and most vulnerable in care homes?

Aren't care home residents already vaccinated, and therefore, now protected?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 16, 2021, 11:38:51 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 09:45:31 AM
And so it begins. Get jabbed or lose your job.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264)

Good!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 16, 2021, 11:46:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 11:38:13 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 10:00:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 09:45:31 AM
And so it begins. Get jabbed or lose your job.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264)

Are you against the protection of the elderly and most vulnerable in care homes?

Aren't care home residents already vaccinated, and therefore, now protected?

OK - one last time for the slow learners

If people remain unvaccinated, they keep the virus circulating and the risk of a new variant rises. This variant could escape the vaccines.
What's more, not all vulnerable can be vaccinated. Some who are undergoing treatment for other diseases. Hence we need to get vaccinated, to slow or stop the spread and protect the most vulnerable

It is not all about YOU!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 16, 2021, 12:26:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2021, 11:46:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 11:38:13 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 10:00:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 09:45:31 AM
And so it begins. Get jabbed or lose your job.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264)

Are you against the protection of the elderly and most vulnerable in care homes?

Aren't care home residents already vaccinated, and therefore, now protected?

OK - one last time for the slow learners

If people remain unvaccinated, they keep the virus circulating and the risk of a new variant rises. This variant could escape the vaccines.
What's more, not all vulnerable can be vaccinated. Some who are undergoing treatment for other diseases. Hence we need to get vaccinated, to slow or stop the spread and protect the most vulnerable

It is not all about YOU!!

Oh, but apparently it IS!

A bunch of nurses in a hospital in Houston lost their court case fighting their dismissal for refusing to get the vaccine yesterday. But they say they're going all the way to the US Supreme Court if they have to. No doubt bank rolled by deep pocketed right wing donors and championed on Fox News at every step.

My workplace has given everyone until September 1st to either get the vaccine or appeal for a genuine medical or religious accommodation. We're talking tens of thousands of people. Haven't heard much at all yet in the way of dissent, but this is NYC, so there's not a huge amount of right wing paranoia among the ranks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on June 16, 2021, 01:15:31 PM
Cummings leaking Whatsapp messages from BoJo. If he was in the US he'd have been whacked by now..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:37:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2021, 11:46:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 11:38:13 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 10:00:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 09:45:31 AM
And so it begins. Get jabbed or lose your job.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264)

Are you against the protection of the elderly and most vulnerable in care homes?

Aren't care home residents already vaccinated, and therefore, now protected?

OK - one last time for the slow learners

If people remain unvaccinated, they keep the virus circulating and the risk of a new variant rises. This variant could escape the vaccines.
What's more, not all vulnerable can be vaccinated. Some who are undergoing treatment for other diseases. Hence we need to get vaccinated, to slow or stop the spread and protect the most vulnerable

It is not all about YOU!!

The vaccine doesn't stop transmission of the virus. So even if medical people are vaccinated, they can still pass it on to patients (and others).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dec on June 16, 2021, 01:41:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:37:18 PM
The vaccine doesn't stop transmission of the virus.

However having a large percentage of the population vaccinated does greatly slow down transmission of the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 16, 2021, 01:44:27 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:37:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2021, 11:46:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 11:38:13 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 10:00:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 09:45:31 AM
And so it begins. Get jabbed or lose your job.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264)

Are you against the protection of the elderly and most vulnerable in care homes?

Aren't care home residents already vaccinated, and therefore, now protected?

OK - one last time for the slow learners

If people remain unvaccinated, they keep the virus circulating and the risk of a new variant rises. This variant could escape the vaccines.
What's more, not all vulnerable can be vaccinated. Some who are undergoing treatment for other diseases. Hence we need to get vaccinated, to slow or stop the spread and protect the most vulnerable

It is not all about YOU!!

The vaccine doesn't stop transmission of the virus. So even if medical people are vaccinated, they can still pass it on to patients (and others).

No this is wrong. The vaccines do help to reduce transmission of the virus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 01:46:44 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

Yeah, control, cripple, destroy.  What should we do Benny? There's a freedom fighter from South Derry living with his parents running some kind of Freedom Party. A real modern day Che. Their mantra is 'When tyranny becomes law, resistance becomes duty'. Hook up with them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 01:50:48 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2021, 01:44:27 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:37:18 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2021, 11:46:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 11:38:13 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 10:00:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 09:45:31 AM
And so it begins. Get jabbed or lose your job.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264)

Are you against the protection of the elderly and most vulnerable in care homes?

Aren't care home residents already vaccinated, and therefore, now protected?

OK - one last time for the slow learners

If people remain unvaccinated, they keep the virus circulating and the risk of a new variant rises. This variant could escape the vaccines.
What's more, not all vulnerable can be vaccinated. Some who are undergoing treatment for other diseases. Hence we need to get vaccinated, to slow or stop the spread and protect the most vulnerable

It is not all about YOU!!

The vaccine doesn't stop transmission of the virus. So even if medical people are vaccinated, they can still pass it on to patients (and others).

No this is wrong. The vaccines do help to reduce transmission of the virus

Mad that this still has to explained, especially to folk who have such extreme views on an incredible serious issue, an issue that can mean death to loved ones.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:52:41 PM
Quote from: dec on June 16, 2021, 01:41:08 PM
However having a large percentage of the population vaccinated does greatly slow down transmission of the virus.

Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2021, 01:44:27 PM
No this is wrong. The vaccines do help to reduce transmission of the virus

It still doesn't STOP transmission of the virus by 100%
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 16, 2021, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

Let's say for a moment that this IS about controlling the population.

WHO wants to control the population?
WHY do they want to control it?
WHAT do they hope to achieve?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 16, 2021, 02:03:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

Let's say for a moment that this IS about controlling the population.

WHO wants to control the population?
WHY do they want to control it?
WHAT do they hope to achieve?


(https://www.indiewire.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Pinky-and-the-Brain.jpeg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 16, 2021, 02:05:18 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:52:41 PM
Quote from: dec on June 16, 2021, 01:41:08 PM
However having a large percentage of the population vaccinated does greatly slow down transmission of the virus.

Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2021, 01:44:27 PM
No this is wrong. The vaccines do help to reduce transmission of the virus

It still doesn't STOP transmission of the virus by 100%

No but not every medicine is 100% effective. People take medicines for granted. Nothing is 100% effective but it is infinitely better than the alternative.
Wise up ffs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 02:23:07 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 02:19:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

Let's say for a moment that this IS about controlling the population.

WHO wants to control the population?
WHY do they want to control it?
WHAT do they hope to achieve?

Look up the Chinese Social Credit System.

Could you and Benny, in a few sentences explain exactly what is going on / by who atm?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

FFS have a read online about Ivermectin. It's really that easy to get the full picture.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on June 16, 2021, 02:36:30 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 02:23:07 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 02:19:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

Let's say for a moment that this IS about controlling the population.

WHO wants to control the population?
WHY do they want to control it?
WHAT do they hope to achieve?

Look up the Chinese Social Credit System.

Could you and Benny, in a few sentences explain exactly what is going on / by who atm?

The great thing about conspiracy is that it can be easily proven with another conspiracy theory and eventually it's all qualified with the MSM are involved and are hiding it all.

I love the fact they want to cripple the economy.  Whoever they are
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 16, 2021, 02:36:33 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

FFS have a read online about Ivermectin. It's really that easy to get the full picture.

Used to dose the cattle with Ivermectin. Great stuff. Must inject a few cc's into the kids tonight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on June 16, 2021, 02:40:25 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:52:41 PM
Quote from: dec on June 16, 2021, 01:41:08 PM
However having a large percentage of the population vaccinated does greatly slow down transmission of the virus.

Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2021, 01:44:27 PM
No this is wrong. The vaccines do help to reduce transmission of the virus

It still doesn't STOP transmission of the virus by 100%
Yes Benny, seatbelts dont always stop you getting killed but you should still wear one
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:42:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2021, 02:36:33 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

FFS have a read online about Ivermectin. It's really that easy to get the full picture.

Used to dose the cattle with Ivermectin. Great stuff. Must inject a few cc's into the kids tonight.
People are actually being hospitalised because they are doing that. Yet the Covid vaccines are a no no because the trial was rushed. You wonder where their heads at.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on June 16, 2021, 02:42:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

Let's say for a moment that this IS about controlling the population.

WHO wants to control the population?
WHY do they want to control it?
WHAT do they hope to achieve?
To play devils advocate- look how much Bezos and Musk have made since last year...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 16, 2021, 02:49:08 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 16, 2021, 02:42:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

Let's say for a moment that this IS about controlling the population.

WHO wants to control the population?
WHY do they want to control it?
WHAT do they hope to achieve?
To play devils advocate- look how much Bezos and Musk have made since last year...

Boatloads.

And??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 16, 2021, 03:21:44 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 02:19:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

Let's say for a moment that this IS about controlling the population.

WHO wants to control the population?
WHY do they want to control it?
WHAT do they hope to achieve?

Look up the Chinese Social Credit System.

Ok.

And??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 16, 2021, 03:22:10 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 03:01:55 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 02:23:07 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 02:19:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

Let's say for a moment that this IS about controlling the population.

WHO wants to control the population?
WHY do they want to control it?
WHAT do they hope to achieve?

Look up the Chinese Social Credit System.

Could you and Benny, in a few sentences explain exactly what is going on / by who atm?

So you've been double jabbed and want to go to the big game in the Aviva?, congrats you've been a good boy and can attend.

Hold on, you haven't been vaccinated? Sorry but you have to stay at home.

Vaccine Passports are a first step towards this type of Totalitarian system.

How many steps are there?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 16, 2021, 03:27:16 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 16, 2021, 02:36:33 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

FFS have a read online about Ivermectin. It's really that easy to get the full picture.

Used to dose the cattle with Ivermectin. Great stuff. Must inject a few cc's into the kids tonight.
Looking forward to the new Joe Cooney ads.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 03:48:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

FFS have a read online about Ivermectin. It's really that easy to get the full picture.

then why have there been experts calling for it to be used?

Because there are signs it can help in mild Covid cases. And perhaps it might be a very useful tool in fighting Covid. There's certainly positive news around it. But there's also a whole lot of mis-information. It's not a wonder drug that cures Covid. It's still not passed by the majority of health organisations as a treatment. So Building it up as a super cure doesn't help.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 16, 2021, 03:51:22 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 03:48:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

FFS have a read online about Ivermectin. It's really that easy to get the full picture.

then why have there been experts calling for it to be used?

Because there are signs it can help in mild Covid cases. And perhaps it might be a very useful tool in fighting Covid. There's certainly positive news around it. But there's also a whole lot of mis-information. It's not a wonder drug that cures Covid. It's still not passed by the majority of health organisations as a treatment. So Building it up as a super cure doesn't help.

Trump and right wing US cable news are still hyping hydroxychloroquine as a miracle treatment as of this week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 04:00:36 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 03:01:55 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 02:23:07 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 02:19:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

Let's say for a moment that this IS about controlling the population.

WHO wants to control the population?
WHY do they want to control it?
WHAT do they hope to achieve?

Look up the Chinese Social Credit System.

Could you and Benny, in a few sentences explain exactly what is going on / by who atm?

So you've been double jabbed and want to go to the big game in the Aviva?, congrats you've been a good boy and can attend.

Hold on, you haven't been vaccinated? Sorry but you have to stay at home.

Vaccine Passports are a first step towards this type of Totalitarian system.

No they are not. Absolute binlidery
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:06:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 03:48:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

FFS have a read online about Ivermectin. It's really that easy to get the full picture.

then why have there been experts calling for it to be used?

Because there are signs it can help in mild Covid cases. And perhaps it might be a very useful tool in fighting Covid. There's certainly positive news around it. But there's also a whole lot of mis-information. It's not a wonder drug that cures Covid. It's still not passed by the majority of health organisations as a treatment. So Building it up as a super cure doesn't help.

Well of course it's not! That won't help sell vaccines, would it?  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 04:11:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

Let's say for a moment that this IS about controlling the population.

WHO wants to control the population?
WHY do they want to control it?
WHAT do they hope to achieve?

Benny.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:14:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:06:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 03:48:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

FFS have a read online about Ivermectin. It's really that easy to get the full picture.

then why have there been experts calling for it to be used?

Because there are signs it can help in mild Covid cases. And perhaps it might be a very useful tool in fighting Covid. There's certainly positive news around it. But there's also a whole lot of mis-information. It's not a wonder drug that cures Covid. It's still not passed by the majority of health organisations as a treatment. So Building it up as a super cure doesn't help.

Well of course it's not! That won't help sell vaccines, would it?  ::)

You do realize its much better for public health, and thus a return to normality, for people to be protected so they're most likely NOT to develop symptomatic disease in the first place, rather than rely on treatments, including drugs and up to intubation, afterwards?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:14:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:06:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 03:48:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

FFS have a read online about Ivermectin. It's really that easy to get the full picture.

then why have there been experts calling for it to be used?

Because there are signs it can help in mild Covid cases. And perhaps it might be a very useful tool in fighting Covid. There's certainly positive news around it. But there's also a whole lot of mis-information. It's not a wonder drug that cures Covid. It's still not passed by the majority of health organisations as a treatment. So Building it up as a super cure doesn't help.

Well of course it's not! That won't help sell vaccines, would it?  ::)

You do realize its much better for public health, and thus a return to normality, for people to be protected so they're most likely NOT to develop symptomatic disease in the first place, rather than rely on treatments, including drugs and up to intubation, afterwards?

There won't be a return to normality. Even if covid is seen to be wiped out, they still won't allow normality to return. Time will tell on how effective these vaccines are. But given that there's talk of another wave in autumn, even with the vast majority of the population vaccinated, I'm guessing not that effective.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:25:29 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 04:11:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

Let's say for a moment that this IS about controlling the population.

WHO wants to control the population?
WHY do they want to control it?
WHAT do they hope to achieve?

Benny.....

Do you have an inkling what's happening but just want me to explain anyway? Or do you really have no idea?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 16, 2021, 04:43:02 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:14:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:06:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 03:48:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

FFS have a read online about Ivermectin. It's really that easy to get the full picture.

then why have there been experts calling for it to be used?

Because there are signs it can help in mild Covid cases. And perhaps it might be a very useful tool in fighting Covid. There's certainly positive news around it. But there's also a whole lot of mis-information. It's not a wonder drug that cures Covid. It's still not passed by the majority of health organisations as a treatment. So Building it up as a super cure doesn't help.

Well of course it's not! That won't help sell vaccines, would it?  ::)

You do realize its much better for public health, and thus a return to normality, for people to be protected so they're most likely NOT to develop symptomatic disease in the first place, rather than rely on treatments, including drugs and up to intubation, afterwards?

There won't be a return to normality. Even if covid is seen to be wiped out, they still won't allow normality to return. Time will tell on how effective these vaccines are. But given that there's talk of another wave in autumn, even with the vast majority of the population vaccinated, I'm guessing not that effective.

There is a chance that you are mentally unwell. Please seek help.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 04:43:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:06:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 03:48:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

FFS have a read online about Ivermectin. It's really that easy to get the full picture.

then why have there been experts calling for it to be used?

Because there are signs it can help in mild Covid cases. And perhaps it might be a very useful tool in fighting Covid. There's certainly positive news around it. But there's also a whole lot of mis-information. It's not a wonder drug that cures Covid. It's still not passed by the majority of health organisations as a treatment. So Building it up as a super cure doesn't help.

Well of course it's not! That won't help sell vaccines, would it?  ::)
You're right. Whereas Ivermectin is provided free of charge by pharma pixies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 04:46:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:25:29 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 04:11:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 01:54:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

Let's say for a moment that this IS about controlling the population.

WHO wants to control the population?
WHY do they want to control it?
WHAT do they hope to achieve?

Benny.....

Do you have an inkling what's happening but just want me to explain anyway? Or do you really have no idea?

You were posed 3 questions. I'm open to enlightenment. Fire away
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:49:25 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:14:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:06:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 03:48:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

FFS have a read online about Ivermectin. It's really that easy to get the full picture.

then why have there been experts calling for it to be used?

Because there are signs it can help in mild Covid cases. And perhaps it might be a very useful tool in fighting Covid. There's certainly positive news around it. But there's also a whole lot of mis-information. It's not a wonder drug that cures Covid. It's still not passed by the majority of health organisations as a treatment. So Building it up as a super cure doesn't help.

Well of course it's not! That won't help sell vaccines, would it?  ::)

You do realize its much better for public health, and thus a return to normality, for people to be protected so they're most likely NOT to develop symptomatic disease in the first place, rather than rely on treatments, including drugs and up to intubation, afterwards?

There won't be a return to normality. Even if covid is seen to be wiped out, they still won't allow normality to return. Time will tell on how effective these vaccines are. But given that there's talk of another wave in autumn, even with the vast majority of the population vaccinated, I'm guessing not that effective.

WHO won't allow normality to return even if COVID is wiped out??

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 05:02:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:49:25 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:14:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:06:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 03:48:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

FFS have a read online about Ivermectin. It's really that easy to get the full picture.

then why have there been experts calling for it to be used?

Because there are signs it can help in mild Covid cases. And perhaps it might be a very useful tool in fighting Covid. There's certainly positive news around it. But there's also a whole lot of mis-information. It's not a wonder drug that cures Covid. It's still not passed by the majority of health organisations as a treatment. So Building it up as a super cure doesn't help.

Well of course it's not! That won't help sell vaccines, would it?  ::)

You do realize its much better for public health, and thus a return to normality, for people to be protected so they're most likely NOT to develop symptomatic disease in the first place, rather than rely on treatments, including drugs and up to intubation, afterwards?

There won't be a return to normality. Even if covid is seen to be wiped out, they still won't allow normality to return. Time will tell on how effective these vaccines are. But given that there's talk of another wave in autumn, even with the vast majority of the population vaccinated, I'm guessing not that effective.

WHO won't allow normality to return even if COVID is wiped out??

You can be sure covid won't be wiped out. Why would it be? Continual lockdowns/restrictions are doing their jobs. And sure no more vaccines would be sold, or vaccine passports wouldn't be needed. Sure that makes no sense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 16, 2021, 05:06:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 05:02:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:49:25 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:14:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:06:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 03:48:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

FFS have a read online about Ivermectin. It's really that easy to get the full picture.

then why have there been experts calling for it to be used?

Because there are signs it can help in mild Covid cases. And perhaps it might be a very useful tool in fighting Covid. There's certainly positive news around it. But there's also a whole lot of mis-information. It's not a wonder drug that cures Covid. It's still not passed by the majority of health organisations as a treatment. So Building it up as a super cure doesn't help.

Well of course it's not! That won't help sell vaccines, would it?  ::)

You do realize its much better for public health, and thus a return to normality, for people to be protected so they're most likely NOT to develop symptomatic disease in the first place, rather than rely on treatments, including drugs and up to intubation, afterwards?

There won't be a return to normality. Even if covid is seen to be wiped out, they still won't allow normality to return. Time will tell on how effective these vaccines are. But given that there's talk of another wave in autumn, even with the vast majority of the population vaccinated, I'm guessing not that effective.

WHO won't allow normality to return even if COVID is wiped out??

You can be sure covid won't be wiped out. Why would it be? Continual lockdowns/restrictions are doing their jobs. And sure no more vaccines would be sold, or vaccine passports wouldn't be needed. Sure that makes no sense.

You said "Even if covid is seen to be wiped out, they still won't allow normality to return."

And WHO are "Continual lockdowns/restrictions... doing their jobs" for?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on June 16, 2021, 05:24:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 05:06:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 05:02:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:49:25 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:14:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:06:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 03:48:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

FFS have a read online about Ivermectin. It's really that easy to get the full picture.

then why have there been experts calling for it to be used?

Because there are signs it can help in mild Covid cases. And perhaps it might be a very useful tool in fighting Covid. There's certainly positive news around it. But there's also a whole lot of mis-information. It's not a wonder drug that cures Covid. It's still not passed by the majority of health organisations as a treatment. So Building it up as a super cure doesn't help.

Well of course it's not! That won't help sell vaccines, would it?  ::)

You do realize its much better for public health, and thus a return to normality, for people to be protected so they're most likely NOT to develop symptomatic disease in the first place, rather than rely on treatments, including drugs and up to intubation, afterwards?

There won't be a return to normality. Even if covid is seen to be wiped out, they still won't allow normality to return. Time will tell on how effective these vaccines are. But given that there's talk of another wave in autumn, even with the vast majority of the population vaccinated, I'm guessing not that effective.

WHO won't allow normality to return even if COVID is wiped out??

You can be sure covid won't be wiped out. Why would it be? Continual lockdowns/restrictions are doing their jobs. And sure no more vaccines would be sold, or vaccine passports wouldn't be needed. Sure that makes no sense.

You said "Even if covid is seen to be wiped out, they still won't allow normality to return."

And WHO are "Continual lockdowns/restrictions... doing their jobs" for?
And do they want to cripple the economy by keeping people at homeo or  make money selling vaccines?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 16, 2021, 05:27:31 PM
The people who make Masks are holding the world to ransom
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 16, 2021, 05:34:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 16, 2021, 05:27:31 PM
The people who make Masks are holding the world to ransom

Who?

Megacorporation 3M, or some small Chinese operator making dodgy KN95s? ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on June 16, 2021, 05:41:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 05:34:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 16, 2021, 05:27:31 PM
The people who make Masks are holding the world to ransom

Who?

Megacorporation 3M, or some small Chinese operator making dodgy KN95s? ;D
What did you get if you put u in a mask? Musk.
Hiding in plain site. ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 05:54:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 05:06:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 05:02:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:49:25 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:14:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:06:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 03:48:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

FFS have a read online about Ivermectin. It's really that easy to get the full picture.

then why have there been experts calling for it to be used?

Because there are signs it can help in mild Covid cases. And perhaps it might be a very useful tool in fighting Covid. There's certainly positive news around it. But there's also a whole lot of mis-information. It's not a wonder drug that cures Covid. It's still not passed by the majority of health organisations as a treatment. So Building it up as a super cure doesn't help.

Well of course it's not! That won't help sell vaccines, would it?  ::)

You do realize its much better for public health, and thus a return to normality, for people to be protected so they're most likely NOT to develop symptomatic disease in the first place, rather than rely on treatments, including drugs and up to intubation, afterwards?

There won't be a return to normality. Even if covid is seen to be wiped out, they still won't allow normality to return. Time will tell on how effective these vaccines are. But given that there's talk of another wave in autumn, even with the vast majority of the population vaccinated, I'm guessing not that effective.

WHO won't allow normality to return even if COVID is wiped out??

You can be sure covid won't be wiped out. Why would it be? Continual lockdowns/restrictions are doing their jobs. And sure no more vaccines would be sold, or vaccine passports wouldn't be needed. Sure that makes no sense.

You said "Even if covid is seen to be wiped out, they still won't allow normality to return."

And WHO are "Continual lockdowns/restrictions... doing their jobs" for?

I've explained in previous posts the reasons for lockdowns/restrictions.

It's basically the problem-reaction-solution situation. Make life hell for people that they'll agree to anything: mandatory vaccinations, vaccine passports (ie. ID cards), societal restrictions, continual tracking and monitoring of movements.

In recent days, the focus has turned from fighting a virus to introducing vaccine passports (which is essentially an ID card, that millions were opposed to when the likes of Blair/Bush spouted about after 9/11), to mandatory vaccinations or else you lose your job. And people are blindly, unquestionably accepting these.

Those making the decisions (government), covering it (media) , giving the advice (scientists/pharmaceuticals), benefitting from it (multi-national businesses, pharmaceuticals/technology companies). They're wrapped up in it, profiting from it. Do you trust any of these people? You're a fool if you do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on June 16, 2021, 05:58:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 05:34:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 16, 2021, 05:27:31 PM
The people who make Masks are holding the world to ransom

Who?

Megacorporation 3M, or some small Chinese operator making dodgy KN95s? ;D
Big Mask
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on June 16, 2021, 06:29:20 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 05:54:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 05:06:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 05:02:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:49:25 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:14:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:06:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 03:48:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

FFS have a read online about Ivermectin. It's really that easy to get the full picture.

then why have there been experts calling for it to be used?

Because there are signs it can help in mild Covid cases. And perhaps it might be a very useful tool in fighting Covid. There's certainly positive news around it. But there's also a whole lot of mis-information. It's not a wonder drug that cures Covid. It's still not passed by the majority of health organisations as a treatment. So Building it up as a super cure doesn't help.

Well of course it's not! That won't help sell vaccines, would it?  ::)

You do realize its much better for public health, and thus a return to normality, for people to be protected so they're most likely NOT to develop symptomatic disease in the first place, rather than rely on treatments, including drugs and up to intubation, afterwards?

There won't be a return to normality. Even if covid is seen to be wiped out, they still won't allow normality to return. Time will tell on how effective these vaccines are. But given that there's talk of another wave in autumn, even with the vast majority of the population vaccinated, I'm guessing not that effective.

WHO won't allow normality to return even if COVID is wiped out??

You can be sure covid won't be wiped out. Why would it be? Continual lockdowns/restrictions are doing their jobs. And sure no more vaccines would be sold, or vaccine passports wouldn't be needed. Sure that makes no sense.

You said "Even if covid is seen to be wiped out, they still won't allow normality to return."

And WHO are "Continual lockdowns/restrictions... doing their jobs" for?

I've explained in previous posts the reasons for lockdowns/restrictions.

It's basically the problem-reaction-solution situation. Make life hell for people that they'll agree to anything: mandatory vaccinations, vaccine passports (ie. ID cards), societal restrictions, continual tracking and monitoring of movements.

In recent days, the focus has turned from fighting a virus to introducing vaccine passports (which is essentially an ID card, that millions were opposed to when the likes of Blair/Bush spouted about after 9/11), to mandatory vaccinations or else you lose your job. And people are blindly, unquestionably accepting these.

Those making the decisions (government), covering it (media) , giving the advice (scientists/pharmaceuticals), benefitting from it (multi-national businesses, pharmaceuticals/technology companies). They're wrapped up in it, profiting from it. Do you trust any of these people? You're a fool if you do.

Stay off the glue!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 16, 2021, 06:31:51 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on June 16, 2021, 05:24:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 05:06:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 05:02:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:49:25 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:14:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:06:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 03:48:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

FFS have a read online about Ivermectin. It's really that easy to get the full picture.

then why have there been experts calling for it to be used?

Because there are signs it can help in mild Covid cases. And perhaps it might be a very useful tool in fighting Covid. There's certainly positive news around it. But there's also a whole lot of mis-information. It's not a wonder drug that cures Covid. It's still not passed by the majority of health organisations as a treatment. So Building it up as a super cure doesn't help.

Well of course it's not! That won't help sell vaccines, would it?  ::)

You do realize its much better for public health, and thus a return to normality, for people to be protected so they're most likely NOT to develop symptomatic disease in the first place, rather than rely on treatments, including drugs and up to intubation, afterwards?

There won't be a return to normality. Even if covid is seen to be wiped out, they still won't allow normality to return. Time will tell on how effective these vaccines are. But given that there's talk of another wave in autumn, even with the vast majority of the population vaccinated, I'm guessing not that effective.

WHO won't allow normality to return even if COVID is wiped out??

You can be sure covid won't be wiped out. Why would it be? Continual lockdowns/restrictions are doing their jobs. And sure no more vaccines would be sold, or vaccine passports wouldn't be needed. Sure that makes no sense.

You said "Even if covid is seen to be wiped out, they still won't allow normality to return."

And WHO are "Continual lockdowns/restrictions... doing their jobs" for?
And do they want to cripple the economy by keeping people at homeo or  make money selling vaccines?

I don't buy into the big conspiracy argument at all. One thing that should be obvious from the past year is that nobody in power actually communicates as well as we hoped they might.

But in terms of "why would they want to crippled the economy?". To be honest, I don't think any of the Uk cabinet would give a f**k if London squalored into a slum, so long as they themselves are sitting high atop a pile of cash. I don't follow Dublin politics as closely, but FF and FG's tag team effort to destroy shelter as a basic human right, doesn't make me think they're interested in the future much either.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 16, 2021, 07:22:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 05:54:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 05:06:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 05:02:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:49:25 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:14:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:06:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 03:48:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

FFS have a read online about Ivermectin. It's really that easy to get the full picture.

then why have there been experts calling for it to be used?

Because there are signs it can help in mild Covid cases. And perhaps it might be a very useful tool in fighting Covid. There's certainly positive news around it. But there's also a whole lot of mis-information. It's not a wonder drug that cures Covid. It's still not passed by the majority of health organisations as a treatment. So Building it up as a super cure doesn't help.

Well of course it's not! That won't help sell vaccines, would it?  ::)

You do realize its much better for public health, and thus a return to normality, for people to be protected so they're most likely NOT to develop symptomatic disease in the first place, rather than rely on treatments, including drugs and up to intubation, afterwards?

There won't be a return to normality. Even if covid is seen to be wiped out, they still won't allow normality to return. Time will tell on how effective these vaccines are. But given that there's talk of another wave in autumn, even with the vast majority of the population vaccinated, I'm guessing not that effective.

WHO won't allow normality to return even if COVID is wiped out??

You can be sure covid won't be wiped out. Why would it be? Continual lockdowns/restrictions are doing their jobs. And sure no more vaccines would be sold, or vaccine passports wouldn't be needed. Sure that makes no sense.

You said "Even if covid is seen to be wiped out, they still won't allow normality to return."

And WHO are "Continual lockdowns/restrictions... doing their jobs" for?

I've explained in previous posts the reasons for lockdowns/restrictions.

It's basically the problem-reaction-solution situation. Make life hell for people that they'll agree to anything: mandatory vaccinations, vaccine passports (ie. ID cards), societal restrictions, continual tracking and monitoring of movements.

In recent days, the focus has turned from fighting a virus to introducing vaccine passports (which is essentially an ID card, that millions were opposed to when the likes of Blair/Bush spouted about after 9/11), to mandatory vaccinations or else you lose your job. And people are blindly, unquestionably accepting these.

Those making the decisions (government), covering it (media) , giving the advice (scientists/pharmaceuticals), benefitting from it (multi-national businesses, pharmaceuticals/technology companies). They're wrapped up in it, profiting from it. Do you trust any of these people? You're a fool if you do.

Next thing you're going to be telling us is that the hellish scenes coming out of Bergamo in March of last year were all fabricated to facilitate the societal shutdowns and profiteering (leaving aside the devastation to worldwide supply chains and employment) that THEY® wanted. And that all the people we all know who got sick, and some of whom died, were all just paid actors!

I've had a vaccine passport for three months now. I've NEVER been asked for it, nor was I told to get it. I chose to get it for my own convenience so I'd have a handy phone app to show my vaccination record. The only prospect that I will be asked for it or other evidence of vaccination is if I go to a Broadway show or a concert or something, and for my work, where vaccinations are, correctly, being required of all employees this autumn as the entire workforce comes back. The state has my vaccination record whether I get the passport or not, just like they have records of my other vaccinations.

And vaccinations and vaccine passports are all part of fighting the virus and getting back to normal FFS. You want to attract people to indoor events where they'll be reasonably secure and confident about not contracting COVID – have everyone show proof as a condition of entry. Just like you can be reasonably confident your kid won't become seriously ill with measles at school because the school authority has a documented vaccine program in place as a condition of enrollment.

Shadowy entities controlling us all on strings to make profits me arse!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 16, 2021, 07:29:19 PM
Vaccines are not a magic bullet.
AZ effectiveness versus the Delta variant is 60%. 
Delta is trebling every 2 weeks in the UK in June. This is senior hurling.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 16, 2021, 08:10:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 16, 2021, 07:29:19 PM
Vaccines are not a magic bullet.
AZ effectiveness versus the Delta variant is 60%. 
Delta is trebling every 2 weeks in the UK in June. This is senior hurling.

UK Govt have 'revised' those figures to say a double dose of Pfizer is 96% effective and AZ is now 92% against the Delta Variant.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on June 16, 2021, 08:40:04 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 16, 2021, 08:10:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 16, 2021, 07:29:19 PM
Vaccines are not a magic bullet.
AZ effectiveness versus the Delta variant is 60%. 
Delta is trebling every 2 weeks in the UK in June. This is senior hurling.

UK Govt have 'revised' those figures to say a double dose of Pfizer is 96% effective and AZ is now 92% against the Delta Variant.

Seafoid a bit slow on any new news and i don't think he realises the tabloids he reads tend strike fear into its readers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on June 16, 2021, 08:48:51 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 16, 2021, 08:10:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 16, 2021, 07:29:19 PM
Vaccines are not a magic bullet.
AZ effectiveness versus the Delta variant is 60%. 
Delta is trebling every 2 weeks in the UK in June. This is senior hurling.

UK Govt have 'revised' those figures to say a double dose of Pfizer is 96% effective and AZ is now 92% against the Delta Variant.

I think those figures are against hospitalisation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on June 16, 2021, 09:06:57 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 05:54:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 05:06:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 05:02:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:49:25 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:22:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 16, 2021, 04:14:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 04:06:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 03:48:01 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 03:04:19 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 16, 2021, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 01:34:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 16, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
For those who are Covid Vaccine hesitant would Ivermectin not be a good alternative if authorised here?. It says in this article that it's been around since 1981 and reduces the risk of transmission by 88 per cent.

https://www.pharmacymagazine.co.uk/ivermectin-for-covid-19-a-cheap-drug-with-a-remarkable-effect

In this video it is claimed that if Ivermectin was used throughout the world then Covid would be gone within a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_NNTVJzqtY&t=2254s

Yes, but why have a cure, when they can keep it all going with annual vaccines, cripple the economy, destroy livelihoods  and control the population?

I said it months ago - this isn't about a virus.

FFS have a read online about Ivermectin. It's really that easy to get the full picture.

then why have there been experts calling for it to be used?

Because there are signs it can help in mild Covid cases. And perhaps it might be a very useful tool in fighting Covid. There's certainly positive news around it. But there's also a whole lot of mis-information. It's not a wonder drug that cures Covid. It's still not passed by the majority of health organisations as a treatment. So Building it up as a super cure doesn't help.

Well of course it's not! That won't help sell vaccines, would it?  ::)

You do realize its much better for public health, and thus a return to normality, for people to be protected so they're most likely NOT to develop symptomatic disease in the first place, rather than rely on treatments, including drugs and up to intubation, afterwards?

There won't be a return to normality. Even if covid is seen to be wiped out, they still won't allow normality to return. Time will tell on how effective these vaccines are. But given that there's talk of another wave in autumn, even with the vast majority of the population vaccinated, I'm guessing not that effective.

WHO won't allow normality to return even if COVID is wiped out??

You can be sure covid won't be wiped out. Why would it be? Continual lockdowns/restrictions are doing their jobs. And sure no more vaccines would be sold, or vaccine passports wouldn't be needed. Sure that makes no sense.

You said "Even if covid is seen to be wiped out, they still won't allow normality to return."

And WHO are "Continual lockdowns/restrictions... doing their jobs" for?

I've explained in previous posts the reasons for lockdowns/restrictions.

It's basically the problem-reaction-solution situation. Make life hell for people that they'll agree to anything: mandatory vaccinations, vaccine passports (ie. ID cards), societal restrictions, continual tracking and monitoring of movements.

In recent days, the focus has turned from fighting a virus to introducing vaccine passports (which is essentially an ID card, that millions were opposed to when the likes of Blair/Bush spouted about after 9/11), to mandatory vaccinations or else you lose your job. And people are blindly, unquestionably accepting these.

Those making the decisions (government), covering it (media) , giving the advice (scientists/pharmaceuticals), benefitting from it (multi-national businesses, pharmaceuticals/technology companies). They're wrapped up in it, profiting from it. Do you trust any of these people? You're a fool if you do.
Would biometric passports and SIM cards not have provided "them" with enough info already?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 16, 2021, 09:23:48 PM
Quote from: lenny on June 16, 2021, 08:48:51 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 16, 2021, 08:10:51 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 16, 2021, 07:29:19 PM
Vaccines are not a magic bullet.
AZ effectiveness versus the Delta variant is 60%. 
Delta is trebling every 2 weeks in the UK in June. This is senior hurling.

UK Govt have 'revised' those figures to say a double dose of Pfizer is 96% effective and AZ is now 92% against the Delta Variant.

I think those figures are against hospitalisation.

Your right Lenny but I'd still take that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 16, 2021, 10:58:43 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 16, 2021, 09:45:31 AM
And so it begins. Get jabbed or lose your job.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57492264)

Good.

At least some idiots that object to the vaccines for ill founded reasons will now be forced to do what they are too stupid to realise they should be doing.


Just as bull bars were banned on 4x4s to keep others safe, you don't have freedom to needlessly endanger vulnerable people through your own stupidity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 17, 2021, 09:09:10 AM
Donnie O'Sullivan (Kerry Man) who works with CNN spends his time interviewing conspiracy theorists and people who have been radicalised by Trump/Facebook/The Internet/etc. He is worth a follow.

A lot of it comes down to the fact that the world we live in is very complicated with nuances that are just not easily explained. And for people with a low intelligence or mental illness (even a mild one), these things are difficult to get their heads around. They seek solace in simplicity, it's all shady governments or big pharma or big tech. The world is pure chaos. Like a pandemic for fucks sake. It's just mental to think 18 months ago this was unimaginable. People struggle to understand and to explain it. They need a simple explanation and the reality is there isn't one. They then take an even more dangerous path into conspiracy theories.

If you find yourself in this spiral you need to stop. Reach out to someone and seek help.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 11:44:11 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 09:09:10 AM
Donnie O'Sullivan (Kerry Man) who works with CNN spends his time interviewing conspiracy theorists and people who have been radicalised by Trump/Facebook/The Internet/etc. He is worth a follow.

A lot of it comes down to the fact that the world we live in is very complicated with nuances that are just not easily explained. And for people with a low intelligence or mental illness (even a mild one), these things are difficult to get their heads around. They seek solace in simplicity, it's all shady governments or big pharma or big tech. The world is pure chaos. Like a pandemic for fucks sake. It's just mental to think 18 months ago this was unimaginable. People struggle to understand and to explain it. They need a simple explanation and the reality is there isn't one. They then take an even more dangerous path into conspiracy theories.

If you find yourself in this spiral you need to stop. Reach out to someone and seek help.

Aye, and I'm sure the British government/media put it about since the early 70's that Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy were conspiracy theories. Were  the families of both atrocities just "conspiracy theorists" for continually pushing for proper enquiries and ultimately, the truth? Were those seeking justice for clerical abuse conspiracy theorists? How about the families of the 96 Hillsborough victims?

If this pandemic has reinforced anything, it's the amount of times we have been continually lied to, and we just cannot trust politicians , governments and media. Anyone  rolling the eyes at people taking an alternative view has to ask themselves 3 questions: do you trust everything politicians tell you? Do you trust everything governments tell you? Do you trust everything the media tells you? I will guarantee 100% of the posters on this forum wouldn't answer 'yes' to all three, if indeed any. There's your starting point...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 17, 2021, 11:55:03 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 11:44:11 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 09:09:10 AM
Donnie O'Sullivan (Kerry Man) who works with CNN spends his time interviewing conspiracy theorists and people who have been radicalised by Trump/Facebook/The Internet/etc. He is worth a follow.

A lot of it comes down to the fact that the world we live in is very complicated with nuances that are just not easily explained. And for people with a low intelligence or mental illness (even a mild one), these things are difficult to get their heads around. They seek solace in simplicity, it's all shady governments or big pharma or big tech. The world is pure chaos. Like a pandemic for fucks sake. It's just mental to think 18 months ago this was unimaginable. People struggle to understand and to explain it. They need a simple explanation and the reality is there isn't one. They then take an even more dangerous path into conspiracy theories.

If you find yourself in this spiral you need to stop. Reach out to someone and seek help.

Aye, and I'm sure the British government/media put it about since the early 70's that Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy were conspiracy theories. Were  the families of both atrocities just "conspiracy theorists" for continually pushing for proper enquiries and ultimately, the truth? Were those seeking justice for clerical abuse conspiracy theorists? How about the families of the 96 Hillsborough victims?

If this pandemic has reinforced anything, it's the amount of times we have been continually lied to, and we just cannot trust politicians , governments and media. Anyone  rolling the eyes at people taking an alternative view has to ask themselves 3 questions: do you trust everything politicians tell you? Do you trust everything governments tell you? Do you trust everything the media tells you? I will guarantee 100% of the posters on this forum wouldn't answer 'yes' to all three, if indeed any. There's your starting point...

You know what you are right. I don't always trust the British government. Or indeed the Chinese or American governments. But I would trust them ALL AND ALL the scientists when they say there is a pandemic, it is killing otherwise healthy people and we should get vaccinated (and there is a number of different vaccines)

You think that all the "big" pharma companies in conjunction with all the governments in the world, many who cannot stand the sight of each other, have put their differences aside to enslave the entire world population?

We can all pick out something that happened previously, and use it as fact that nobody can be trusted, but it simply isn't true. You can not trust the Briitsh government on one issue but you can on another and you can trust or not trust them on lots of different issues to different degrees all at the same time. The world is chaos it is not black and white.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 17, 2021, 12:32:49 PM
I just finished renovating part of my house, and I want to furnish it.

The shelves in Ikea are basically f**king bare, as the pandemic has basically shut down their manufacturing completely and Ikea cannot say when they'll be fully stocked and back to business as usual. We can't get beds or the shelving we want. We did manage to get an order in for a couch from Pottery Barn or some other higher end shop back in March, but we won't see delivery of it until September!

Several major car companies, including Ford and Subaru, literally shut down their production lines in the US for a couple of months due to the chip shortage. The same shortage is affecting production of phones, computers, game consoles and other electronics. Anyone able to buy a PS5 for their kid yet?

On what f**king planet do governments want these shortages and inflationary pressures as they try to reopen economies and get life back to normal so they can keep their jobs at the next elections?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on June 17, 2021, 12:46:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 17, 2021, 12:32:49 PM
I just finished renovating part of my house, and I want to furnish it.

The shelves in Ikea are basically f**king bare, as the pandemic has basically shut down their manufacturing completely and Ikea cannot say when they'll be fully stocked and back to business as usual. We can't get beds or the shelving we want. We did manage to get an order in for a couch from Pottery Barn or some other higher end shop back in March, but we won't see delivery of it until September!

Several major car companies, including Ford and Subaru, literally shut down their production lines in the US for a couple of months due to the chip shortage. The same shortage is affecting production of phones, computers, game consoles and other electronics. Anyone able to buy a PS5 for their kid yet?

On what f**king planet do governments want these shortages and inflationary pressures as they try to reopen economies and get life back to normal so they can keep their jobs at the next elections?

I wouldn't like to be building a house in 2021 that's for sure.

Talking about PS5's - this is a useful twitter account if anyone is trying to source one.
https://twitter.com/PS5UKStock
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: nrico2006 on June 17, 2021, 12:52:46 PM
Was there meant to be a covid review by the 'leaders' in NI today?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 17, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
I was talking to another boy about this before and we were laughing that it would need to be the greatest con in history times about a million if COVID were just a big scam.

Have there been people out there who have exploited it - I have absolutely no doubt there but to think this is a great plan and the vaccine passports are a replacement for I'd cards is just nonsense. The man power doesn't exist in the world for the government to watch everyone. Here is an example... the guy who orchestrated the Paris bombings was under surveillance, yes under surveillance, and they still happened. Not just by one government by multiple.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 01:07:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 17, 2021, 01:03:06 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 17, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
I was talking to another boy about this before and we were laughing that it would need to be the greatest con in history times about a million if COVID were just a big scam.

Have there been people out there who have exploited it - I have absolutely no doubt there but to think this is a great plan and the vaccine passports are a replacement for I'd cards is just nonsense. The man power doesn't exist in the world for the government to watch everyone. Here is an example... the guy who orchestrated the Paris bombings was under surveillance, yes under surveillance, and they still happened. Not just by one government by multiple.

You wouldn't be suspicious of Tony Blair pushing for vaccine passports to be rolled out then?
You might as well just get it over with and say the Jews are behind it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 17, 2021, 01:10:10 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 17, 2021, 01:03:06 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 17, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
I was talking to another boy about this before and we were laughing that it would need to be the greatest con in history times about a million if COVID were just a big scam.

Have there been people out there who have exploited it - I have absolutely no doubt there but to think this is a great plan and the vaccine passports are a replacement for I'd cards is just nonsense. The man power doesn't exist in the world for the government to watch everyone. Here is an example... the guy who orchestrated the Paris bombings was under surveillance, yes under surveillance, and they still happened. Not just by one government by multiple.

You wouldn't be suspicious of Tony Blair pushing for vaccine passports to be rolled out then?

I wouldn't. Tony Blair hasn't been in power in nearly 15 years.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 17, 2021, 01:15:40 PM
It wouldn't make me think this is all part of a grand plan no.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on June 17, 2021, 01:26:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 17, 2021, 01:15:40 PM
It wouldn't make me think this is all part of a grand plan no.

Ok, fair enough.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 17, 2021, 01:43:47 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 17, 2021, 01:03:06 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 17, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
I was talking to another boy about this before and we were laughing that it would need to be the greatest con in history times about a million if COVID were just a big scam.

Have there been people out there who have exploited it - I have absolutely no doubt there but to think this is a great plan and the vaccine passports are a replacement for I'd cards is just nonsense. The man power doesn't exist in the world for the government to watch everyone. Here is an example... the guy who orchestrated the Paris bombings was under surveillance, yes under surveillance, and they still happened. Not just by one government by multiple.

You wouldn't be suspicious of Tony Blair pushing for vaccine passports to be rolled out then?

Why would there be cause for suspicion?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 01:53:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 11:55:03 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 11:44:11 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 09:09:10 AM
Donnie O'Sullivan (Kerry Man) who works with CNN spends his time interviewing conspiracy theorists and people who have been radicalised by Trump/Facebook/The Internet/etc. He is worth a follow.

A lot of it comes down to the fact that the world we live in is very complicated with nuances that are just not easily explained. And for people with a low intelligence or mental illness (even a mild one), these things are difficult to get their heads around. They seek solace in simplicity, it's all shady governments or big pharma or big tech. The world is pure chaos. Like a pandemic for fucks sake. It's just mental to think 18 months ago this was unimaginable. People struggle to understand and to explain it. They need a simple explanation and the reality is there isn't one. They then take an even more dangerous path into conspiracy theories.

If you find yourself in this spiral you need to stop. Reach out to someone and seek help.

Aye, and I'm sure the British government/media put it about since the early 70's that Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy were conspiracy theories. Were  the families of both atrocities just "conspiracy theorists" for continually pushing for proper enquiries and ultimately, the truth? Were those seeking justice for clerical abuse conspiracy theorists? How about the families of the 96 Hillsborough victims?

If this pandemic has reinforced anything, it's the amount of times we have been continually lied to, and we just cannot trust politicians , governments and media. Anyone  rolling the eyes at people taking an alternative view has to ask themselves 3 questions: do you trust everything politicians tell you? Do you trust everything governments tell you? Do you trust everything the media tells you? I will guarantee 100% of the posters on this forum wouldn't answer 'yes' to all three, if indeed any. There's your starting point...

You know what you are right. I don't always trust the British government. Or indeed the Chinese or American governments. But I would trust them ALL AND ALL the scientists when they say there is a pandemic, it is killing otherwise healthy people and we should get vaccinated (and there is a number of different vaccines)

You think that all the "big" pharma companies in conjunction with all the governments in the world, many who cannot stand the sight of each other, have put their differences aside to enslave the entire world population?

We can all pick out something that happened previously, and use it as fact that nobody can be trusted, but it simply isn't true. You can not trust the Briitsh government on one issue but you can on another and you can trust or not trust them on lots of different issues to different degrees all at the same time. The world is chaos it is not black and white.

I didn't deny the virus isn't real and isn't  killing people. Let's face it, we Live in a sinister world with shady people and dodgy organisations, out to do whatever it takes to get power And money. If you think they're not capable of deceiving people in one way or another in reaching those goals, well..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 01:10:10 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 17, 2021, 01:03:06 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 17, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
I was talking to another boy about this before and we were laughing that it would need to be the greatest con in history times about a million if COVID were just a big scam.

Have there been people out there who have exploited it - I have absolutely no doubt there but to think this is a great plan and the vaccine passports are a replacement for I'd cards is just nonsense. The man power doesn't exist in the world for the government to watch everyone. Here is an example... the guy who orchestrated the Paris bombings was under surveillance, yes under surveillance, and they still happened. Not just by one government by multiple.

You wouldn't be suspicious of Tony Blair pushing for vaccine passports to be rolled out then?

I wouldn't. Tony Blair hasn't been in power in nearly 15 years.

Tony Blair himself didn't come up with the ID cards idea. He was just a spokesman for the British government.  Just because he's no longer British PM, doesn't mean the ID card idea has been forgotten about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2021, 02:00:15 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 01:53:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 11:55:03 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 11:44:11 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 09:09:10 AM
Donnie O'Sullivan (Kerry Man) who works with CNN spends his time interviewing conspiracy theorists and people who have been radicalised by Trump/Facebook/The Internet/etc. He is worth a follow.

A lot of it comes down to the fact that the world we live in is very complicated with nuances that are just not easily explained. And for people with a low intelligence or mental illness (even a mild one), these things are difficult to get their heads around. They seek solace in simplicity, it's all shady governments or big pharma or big tech. The world is pure chaos. Like a pandemic for fucks sake. It's just mental to think 18 months ago this was unimaginable. People struggle to understand and to explain it. They need a simple explanation and the reality is there isn't one. They then take an even more dangerous path into conspiracy theories.

If you find yourself in this spiral you need to stop. Reach out to someone and seek help.

Aye, and I'm sure the British government/media put it about since the early 70's that Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy were conspiracy theories. Were  the families of both atrocities just "conspiracy theorists" for continually pushing for proper enquiries and ultimately, the truth? Were those seeking justice for clerical abuse conspiracy theorists? How about the families of the 96 Hillsborough victims?

If this pandemic has reinforced anything, it's the amount of times we have been continually lied to, and we just cannot trust politicians , governments and media. Anyone  rolling the eyes at people taking an alternative view has to ask themselves 3 questions: do you trust everything politicians tell you? Do you trust everything governments tell you? Do you trust everything the media tells you? I will guarantee 100% of the posters on this forum wouldn't answer 'yes' to all three, if indeed any. There's your starting point...

You know what you are right. I don't always trust the British government. Or indeed the Chinese or American governments. But I would trust them ALL AND ALL the scientists when they say there is a pandemic, it is killing otherwise healthy people and we should get vaccinated (and there is a number of different vaccines)

You think that all the "big" pharma companies in conjunction with all the governments in the world, many who cannot stand the sight of each other, have put their differences aside to enslave the entire world population?

We can all pick out something that happened previously, and use it as fact that nobody can be trusted, but it simply isn't true. You can not trust the Briitsh government on one issue but you can on another and you can trust or not trust them on lots of different issues to different degrees all at the same time. The world is chaos it is not black and white.

I didn't deny the virus isn't real and isn't  killing people. Let's face it, we Live in a sinister world with shady people and dodgy organisations, out to do whatever it takes to get power And money. If you think they're not capable of deceiving people in one way or another in reaching those goals, well..

FFS Benny. If that's the case you could literally pick any scenario and claim it's true. When asked for evidence just come out with some watery spiel about dodgy organisations, big pharma etc. Thats why your points come across as wired. There needs to be at least a mouthful of meat on the bones for a theory rather than mumbling about dodgy corporations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 17, 2021, 02:14:50 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 01:10:10 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 17, 2021, 01:03:06 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 17, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
I was talking to another boy about this before and we were laughing that it would need to be the greatest con in history times about a million if COVID were just a big scam.

Have there been people out there who have exploited it - I have absolutely no doubt there but to think this is a great plan and the vaccine passports are a replacement for I'd cards is just nonsense. The man power doesn't exist in the world for the government to watch everyone. Here is an example... the guy who orchestrated the Paris bombings was under surveillance, yes under surveillance, and they still happened. Not just by one government by multiple.

You wouldn't be suspicious of Tony Blair pushing for vaccine passports to be rolled out then?

I wouldn't. Tony Blair hasn't been in power in nearly 15 years.

Tony Blair himself didn't come up with the ID cards idea. He was just a spokesman for the British government.  Just because he's no longer British PM, doesn't mean the ID card idea has been forgotten about.

What is the exact issue with ID cards anyway. We all have tracking devices in our pockets anyway. Anyone who travels or drives has an ID card. Like what is the f**king issue? If I apply for a mortgage or a new bank account I need to prove my identity and my address. People get worked up about the stupidest things. 

I wish my life was so interesting that the government wanted to know what I was up to. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 02:26:03 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2021, 02:00:15 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 01:53:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 11:55:03 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 11:44:11 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 09:09:10 AM
Donnie O'Sullivan (Kerry Man) who works with CNN spends his time interviewing conspiracy theorists and people who have been radicalised by Trump/Facebook/The Internet/etc. He is worth a follow.

A lot of it comes down to the fact that the world we live in is very complicated with nuances that are just not easily explained. And for people with a low intelligence or mental illness (even a mild one), these things are difficult to get their heads around. They seek solace in simplicity, it's all shady governments or big pharma or big tech. The world is pure chaos. Like a pandemic for fucks sake. It's just mental to think 18 months ago this was unimaginable. People struggle to understand and to explain it. They need a simple explanation and the reality is there isn't one. They then take an even more dangerous path into conspiracy theories.

If you find yourself in this spiral you need to stop. Reach out to someone and seek help.

Aye, and I'm sure the British government/media put it about since the early 70's that Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy were conspiracy theories. Were  the families of both atrocities just "conspiracy theorists" for continually pushing for proper enquiries and ultimately, the truth? Were those seeking justice for clerical abuse conspiracy theorists? How about the families of the 96 Hillsborough victims?

If this pandemic has reinforced anything, it's the amount of times we have been continually lied to, and we just cannot trust politicians , governments and media. Anyone  rolling the eyes at people taking an alternative view has to ask themselves 3 questions: do you trust everything politicians tell you? Do you trust everything governments tell you? Do you trust everything the media tells you? I will guarantee 100% of the posters on this forum wouldn't answer 'yes' to all three, if indeed any. There's your starting point...

You know what you are right. I don't always trust the British government. Or indeed the Chinese or American governments. But I would trust them ALL AND ALL the scientists when they say there is a pandemic, it is killing otherwise healthy people and we should get vaccinated (and there is a number of different vaccines)

You think that all the "big" pharma companies in conjunction with all the governments in the world, many who cannot stand the sight of each other, have put their differences aside to enslave the entire world population?

We can all pick out something that happened previously, and use it as fact that nobody can be trusted, but it simply isn't true. You can not trust the Briitsh government on one issue but you can on another and you can trust or not trust them on lots of different issues to different degrees all at the same time. The world is chaos it is not black and white.

I didn't deny the virus isn't real and isn't  killing people. Let's face it, we Live in a sinister world with shady people and dodgy organisations, out to do whatever it takes to get power And money. If you think they're not capable of deceiving people in one way or another in reaching those goals, well..

FFS Benny. If that's the case you could literally pick any scenario and claim it's true. When asked for evidence just come out with some watery spiel about dodgy organisations, big pharma etc. Thats why your points come across as wired. There needs to be at least a mouthful of meat on the bones for a theory rather than mumbling about dodgy corporations.

Sunik (or whatever his name is), Hancock and Luke O'Neill have been proven to have financial interest in big pharmaceutical companies. And I'd say if they delved deeper, they'd see a hell of a lot more politicians and "experts" linked to them too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2021, 02:40:56 PM
Having financial interest isn't the same as wrong doing. There has to be for evidence of shady dealings. Sunak's hedge funds invest in a number of industries. There's no restriction on that unless there's signs of some underhand dealings??

Also with reference to Hancock - https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN2291FM
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on June 17, 2021, 02:54:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 02:14:50 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 01:10:10 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 17, 2021, 01:03:06 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 17, 2021, 12:53:00 PM
I was talking to another boy about this before and we were laughing that it would need to be the greatest con in history times about a million if COVID were just a big scam.

Have there been people out there who have exploited it - I have absolutely no doubt there but to think this is a great plan and the vaccine passports are a replacement for I'd cards is just nonsense. The man power doesn't exist in the world for the government to watch everyone. Here is an example... the guy who orchestrated the Paris bombings was under surveillance, yes under surveillance, and they still happened. Not just by one government by multiple.

You wouldn't be suspicious of Tony Blair pushing for vaccine passports to be rolled out then?

I wouldn't. Tony Blair hasn't been in power in nearly 15 years.

Tony Blair himself didn't come up with the ID cards idea. He was just a spokesman for the British government.  Just because he's no longer British PM, doesn't mean the ID card idea has been forgotten about.

What is the exact issue with ID cards anyway. We all have tracking devices in our pockets anyway. Anyone who travels or drives has an ID card. Like what is the f**king issue? If I apply for a mortgage or a new bank account I need to prove my identity and my address. People get worked up about the stupidest things. 

I wish my life was so interesting that the government wanted to know what I was up to.

100% right!
Some people are so full of their own self importance they think everyone else will be equally as interested in their lives.
Personally I don't trust any government to tell us the truth....but, I do think they try to protect people and the economy. The part they lie about is the mistakes and the blunders.
Some politicians are also out to use their position to make themselves more money. Un-ethical perhaps, doesn't mean Covid/Vaccines/ID Cards/5g are a conspiracy to enslave the world's population.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on June 17, 2021, 03:01:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 02:26:03 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2021, 02:00:15 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 01:53:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 11:55:03 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 11:44:11 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 09:09:10 AM
Donnie O'Sullivan (Kerry Man) who works with CNN spends his time interviewing conspiracy theorists and people who have been radicalised by Trump/Facebook/The Internet/etc. He is worth a follow.

A lot of it comes down to the fact that the world we live in is very complicated with nuances that are just not easily explained. And for people with a low intelligence or mental illness (even a mild one), these things are difficult to get their heads around. They seek solace in simplicity, it's all shady governments or big pharma or big tech. The world is pure chaos. Like a pandemic for fucks sake. It's just mental to think 18 months ago this was unimaginable. People struggle to understand and to explain it. They need a simple explanation and the reality is there isn't one. They then take an even more dangerous path into conspiracy theories.

If you find yourself in this spiral you need to stop. Reach out to someone and seek help.

Aye, and I'm sure the British government/media put it about since the early 70's that Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy were conspiracy theories. Were  the families of both atrocities just "conspiracy theorists" for continually pushing for proper enquiries and ultimately, the truth? Were those seeking justice for clerical abuse conspiracy theorists? How about the families of the 96 Hillsborough victims?

If this pandemic has reinforced anything, it's the amount of times we have been continually lied to, and we just cannot trust politicians , governments and media. Anyone  rolling the eyes at people taking an alternative view has to ask themselves 3 questions: do you trust everything politicians tell you? Do you trust everything governments tell you? Do you trust everything the media tells you? I will guarantee 100% of the posters on this forum wouldn't answer 'yes' to all three, if indeed any. There's your starting point...

You know what you are right. I don't always trust the British government. Or indeed the Chinese or American governments. But I would trust them ALL AND ALL the scientists when they say there is a pandemic, it is killing otherwise healthy people and we should get vaccinated (and there is a number of different vaccines)

You think that all the "big" pharma companies in conjunction with all the governments in the world, many who cannot stand the sight of each other, have put their differences aside to enslave the entire world population?

We can all pick out something that happened previously, and use it as fact that nobody can be trusted, but it simply isn't true. You can not trust the Briitsh government on one issue but you can on another and you can trust or not trust them on lots of different issues to different degrees all at the same time. The world is chaos it is not black and white.

I didn't deny the virus isn't real and isn't  killing people. Let's face it, we Live in a sinister world with shady people and dodgy organisations, out to do whatever it takes to get power And money. If you think they're not capable of deceiving people in one way or another in reaching those goals, well..

FFS Benny. If that's the case you could literally pick any scenario and claim it's true. When asked for evidence just come out with some watery spiel about dodgy organisations, big pharma etc. Thats why your points come across as wired. There needs to be at least a mouthful of meat on the bones for a theory rather than mumbling about dodgy corporations.

Sunik (or whatever his name is), Hancock and Luke O'Neill have been proven to have financial interest in big pharmaceutical companies. And I'd say if they delved deeper, they'd see a hell of a lot more politicians and "experts" linked to them too.

Reeks of John Taylor racism.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 03:06:48 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 17, 2021, 03:01:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 02:26:03 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2021, 02:00:15 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 01:53:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 11:55:03 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 11:44:11 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 09:09:10 AM
Donnie O'Sullivan (Kerry Man) who works with CNN spends his time interviewing conspiracy theorists and people who have been radicalised by Trump/Facebook/The Internet/etc. He is worth a follow.

A lot of it comes down to the fact that the world we live in is very complicated with nuances that are just not easily explained. And for people with a low intelligence or mental illness (even a mild one), these things are difficult to get their heads around. They seek solace in simplicity, it's all shady governments or big pharma or big tech. The world is pure chaos. Like a pandemic for fucks sake. It's just mental to think 18 months ago this was unimaginable. People struggle to understand and to explain it. They need a simple explanation and the reality is there isn't one. They then take an even more dangerous path into conspiracy theories.

If you find yourself in this spiral you need to stop. Reach out to someone and seek help.

Aye, and I'm sure the British government/media put it about since the early 70's that Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy were conspiracy theories. Were  the families of both atrocities just "conspiracy theorists" for continually pushing for proper enquiries and ultimately, the truth? Were those seeking justice for clerical abuse conspiracy theorists? How about the families of the 96 Hillsborough victims?

If this pandemic has reinforced anything, it's the amount of times we have been continually lied to, and we just cannot trust politicians , governments and media. Anyone  rolling the eyes at people taking an alternative view has to ask themselves 3 questions: do you trust everything politicians tell you? Do you trust everything governments tell you? Do you trust everything the media tells you? I will guarantee 100% of the posters on this forum wouldn't answer 'yes' to all three, if indeed any. There's your starting point...

You know what you are right. I don't always trust the British government. Or indeed the Chinese or American governments. But I would trust them ALL AND ALL the scientists when they say there is a pandemic, it is killing otherwise healthy people and we should get vaccinated (and there is a number of different vaccines)

You think that all the "big" pharma companies in conjunction with all the governments in the world, many who cannot stand the sight of each other, have put their differences aside to enslave the entire world population?

We can all pick out something that happened previously, and use it as fact that nobody can be trusted, but it simply isn't true. You can not trust the Briitsh government on one issue but you can on another and you can trust or not trust them on lots of different issues to different degrees all at the same time. The world is chaos it is not black and white.

I didn't deny the virus isn't real and isn't  killing people. Let's face it, we Live in a sinister world with shady people and dodgy organisations, out to do whatever it takes to get power And money. If you think they're not capable of deceiving people in one way or another in reaching those goals, well..

FFS Benny. If that's the case you could literally pick any scenario and claim it's true. When asked for evidence just come out with some watery spiel about dodgy organisations, big pharma etc. Thats why your points come across as wired. There needs to be at least a mouthful of meat on the bones for a theory rather than mumbling about dodgy corporations.

Sunik (or whatever his name is), Hancock and Luke O'Neill have been proven to have financial interest in big pharmaceutical companies. And I'd say if they delved deeper, they'd see a hell of a lot more politicians and "experts" linked to them too.

Reeks of John Taylor racism.
Give over
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on June 17, 2021, 03:10:24 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on June 17, 2021, 03:01:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 02:26:03 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on June 17, 2021, 02:00:15 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 01:53:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 11:55:03 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 17, 2021, 11:44:11 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 09:09:10 AM
Donnie O'Sullivan (Kerry Man) who works with CNN spends his time interviewing conspiracy theorists and people who have been radicalised by Trump/Facebook/The Internet/etc. He is worth a follow.

A lot of it comes down to the fact that the world we live in is very complicated with nuances that are just not easily explained. And for people with a low intelligence or mental illness (even a mild one), these things are difficult to get their heads around. They seek solace in simplicity, it's all shady governments or big pharma or big tech. The world is pure chaos. Like a pandemic for fucks sake. It's just mental to think 18 months ago this was unimaginable. People struggle to understand and to explain it. They need a simple explanation and the reality is there isn't one. They then take an even more dangerous path into conspiracy theories.

If you find yourself in this spiral you need to stop. Reach out to someone and seek help.

Aye, and I'm sure the British government/media put it about since the early 70's that Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy were conspiracy theories. Were  the families of both atrocities just "conspiracy theorists" for continually pushing for proper enquiries and ultimately, the truth? Were those seeking justice for clerical abuse conspiracy theorists? How about the families of the 96 Hillsborough victims?

If this pandemic has reinforced anything, it's the amount of times we have been continually lied to, and we just cannot trust politicians , governments and media. Anyone  rolling the eyes at people taking an alternative view has to ask themselves 3 questions: do you trust everything politicians tell you? Do you trust everything governments tell you? Do you trust everything the media tells you? I will guarantee 100% of the posters on this forum wouldn't answer 'yes' to all three, if indeed any. There's your starting point...

You know what you are right. I don't always trust the British government. Or indeed the Chinese or American governments. But I would trust them ALL AND ALL the scientists when they say there is a pandemic, it is killing otherwise healthy people and we should get vaccinated (and there is a number of different vaccines)

You think that all the "big" pharma companies in conjunction with all the governments in the world, many who cannot stand the sight of each other, have put their differences aside to enslave the entire world population?

We can all pick out something that happened previously, and use it as fact that nobody can be trusted, but it simply isn't true. You can not trust the Briitsh government on one issue but you can on another and you can trust or not trust them on lots of different issues to different degrees all at the same time. The world is chaos it is not black and white.

I didn't deny the virus isn't real and isn't  killing people. Let's face it, we Live in a sinister world with shady people and dodgy organisations, out to do whatever it takes to get power And money. If you think they're not capable of deceiving people in one way or another in reaching those goals, well..

FFS Benny. If that's the case you could literally pick any scenario and claim it's true. When asked for evidence just come out with some watery spiel about dodgy organisations, big pharma etc. Thats why your points come across as wired. There needs to be at least a mouthful of meat on the bones for a theory rather than mumbling about dodgy corporations.

Sunik (or whatever his name is), Hancock and Luke O'Neill have been proven to have financial interest in big pharmaceutical companies. And I'd say if they delved deeper, they'd see a hell of a lot more politicians and "experts" linked to them too.

Reeks of John Taylor racism.
Snowflake
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 17, 2021, 03:33:25 PM
A grand plan that no one in the aviation, travel, hospitality etc have heard of or decided to whistleblow on.

There are some extremely wealthy men in those industries and if something else was at play you can be assured it would be out by now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on June 17, 2021, 06:06:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 17, 2021, 12:32:49 PM
I just finished renovating part of my house, and I want to furnish it.

The shelves in Ikea are basically f**king bare, as the pandemic has basically shut down their manufacturing completely and Ikea cannot say when they'll be fully stocked and back to business as usual. We can't get beds or the shelving we want. We did manage to get an order in for a couch from Pottery Barn or some other higher end shop back in March, but we won't see delivery of it until September!

Several major car companies, including Ford and Subaru, literally shut down their production lines in the US for a couple of months due to the chip shortage. The same shortage is affecting production of phones, computers, game consoles and other electronics. Anyone able to buy a PS5 for their kid yet?

On what f**king planet do governments want these shortages and inflationary pressures as they try to reopen economies and get life back to normal so they can keep their jobs at the next elections?

No but I got one for myself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on June 17, 2021, 06:12:03 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on June 17, 2021, 06:06:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 17, 2021, 12:32:49 PM
I just finished renovating part of my house, and I want to furnish it.

The shelves in Ikea are basically f**king bare, as the pandemic has basically shut down their manufacturing completely and Ikea cannot say when they'll be fully stocked and back to business as usual. We can't get beds or the shelving we want. We did manage to get an order in for a couch from Pottery Barn or some other higher end shop back in March, but we won't see delivery of it until September!

Several major car companies, including Ford and Subaru, literally shut down their production lines in the US for a couple of months due to the chip shortage. The same shortage is affecting production of phones, computers, game consoles and other electronics. Anyone able to buy a PS5 for their kid yet?

On what f**king planet do governments want these shortages and inflationary pressures as they try to reopen economies and get life back to normal so they can keep their jobs at the next elections?

No but I got one for myself.
Try and buy a good cycling road bike that isn't  XXS or XXL, ones waiting months  & months
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on June 18, 2021, 11:54:05 PM
Well, well, well.

Anyone remember a few months back, when the EU lambasted Astra Zeneca for not delivering vaccines they'd ordered* and took them to Court?

Well guess what?

Coronavirus: Setback for EU in legal fight with AstraZeneca

The EU has lost a legal battle in Brussels to force Anglo-Swedish drug maker AstraZeneca to supply 120m doses of Covid-19 vaccine by the end of June.

It went to court last month after the company delayed shipment of the vital vaccines, having originally committed to supply 300m doses by the same date.

However, the EU demand was not satisfied by the judge in Brussels.

But the judge did impose a deadline on AstraZeneca to supply doses to the EU over the summer or face hefty fines.

The judge at the Court of First Instance in Brussels ordered that AstraZeneca should deliver a total of 80.2m doses by 27 September.

Welcoming the court order, AstraZeneca said it had already supplied more than 70m doses to the EU and would "substantially exceed" 80.2m doses by the end of June.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57531064 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57531064)



* - No suggestion that this was mere bluster, designed to conceal their own bureaucratic omnishambles in organising a vaccine roll-out, while punishing the UK for getting it right. Oh no, not at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 19, 2021, 01:38:52 AM
The court found that AZ were derelict, it just did not order them to produce a load of vaccine, possibly because nobody in Europe now wants more of it.

As the FT reports
In a ruling on Friday, a court in Brussels criticised AstraZeneca for a "serious breach" of its contract with the EU after repeated shortfalls but refused to impose a new schedule

And AZ did not supply the goods ordered, they merely had slippery language in their contract like many cheats.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on June 19, 2021, 02:03:49 PM
Did I just hear the BBC Commentator say if England lose the Euro semis & final because of Covid it could go to Hungary? Christ that would be an uber humiliation for Bojo and the boys.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 19, 2021, 02:45:21 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 19, 2021, 02:03:49 PM
Did I just hear the BBC Commentator say if England lose the Euro semis & final because of Covid it could go to Hungary? Christ that would be an uber humiliation for Bojo and the boys.

It's something to do with the big wigs and sponsors having to quarantine before attending the semis/final. It's obviously a threat that Boris will bow down to. One rule for the millionaires, another for the peasants.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on June 19, 2021, 03:47:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 19, 2021, 02:45:21 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 19, 2021, 02:03:49 PM
Did I just hear the BBC Commentator say if England lose the Euro semis & final because of Covid it could go to Hungary? Christ that would be an uber humiliation for Bojo and the boys.

It's something to do with the big wigs and sponsors having to quarantine before attending the semis/final. It's obviously a threat that Boris will bow down to. One rule for the millionaires, another for the peasants.
Would be a strange hill to die on tbf, presumably they're all mostly well heeled middle aged men who've already been double jabbed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 19, 2021, 04:46:38 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 19, 2021, 02:45:21 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 19, 2021, 02:03:49 PM
Did I just hear the BBC Commentator say if England lose the Euro semis & final because of Covid it could go to Hungary? Christ that would be an uber humiliation for Bojo and the boys.

It's something to do with the big wigs and sponsors having to quarantine before attending the semis/final. It's obviously a threat that Boris will bow down to. One rule for the millionaires, another for the peasants.

Actually, I think they can do something for the bigwigs and sponsors, who will be in restricted areas. The issue is about the fans generally as the government does not want a load of randomers coming without applying the rules when John Smith, blue passport holder, has to quarantine coming back from his holidays.

I can't see how applying public health rules to foreigners is a humiliation for Boris, whereas an outbreak of Covid in London would affect him.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 19, 2021, 05:27:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 19, 2021, 04:46:38 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 19, 2021, 02:45:21 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 19, 2021, 02:03:49 PM
Did I just hear the BBC Commentator say if England lose the Euro semis & final because of Covid it could go to Hungary? Christ that would be an uber humiliation for Bojo and the boys.

It's something to do with the big wigs and sponsors having to quarantine before attending the semis/final. It's obviously a threat that Boris will bow down to. One rule for the millionaires, another for the peasants.

Actually, I think they can do something for the bigwigs and sponsors, who will be in restricted areas. The issue is about the fans generally as the government does not want a load of randomers coming without applying the rules when John Smith, blue passport holder, has to quarantine coming back from his holidays.

I can't see how applying public health rules to foreigners is a humiliation for Boris, whereas an outbreak of Covid in London would affect him.

Yeah true. Makes you wonder why they persisted with playing it in numerous countries.

Didn't they move the Copa America at the last minute. Why not the Euros?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on June 19, 2021, 05:50:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 19, 2021, 04:46:38 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 19, 2021, 02:45:21 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 19, 2021, 02:03:49 PM
Did I just hear the BBC Commentator say if England lose the Euro semis & final because of Covid it could go to Hungary? Christ that would be an uber humiliation for Bojo and the boys.

It's something to do with the big wigs and sponsors having to quarantine before attending the semis/final. It's obviously a threat that Boris will bow down to. One rule for the millionaires, another for the peasants.

Actually, I think they can do something for the bigwigs and sponsors, who will be in restricted areas. The issue is about the fans generally as the government does not want a load of randomers coming without applying the rules when John Smith, blue passport holder, has to quarantine coming back from his holidays.

I can't see how applying public health rules to foreigners is a humiliation for Boris, whereas an outbreak of Covid in London would affect him.
I'm not up to speed on what's  going on tbh but I've been assuming fans at the games have been living in the host country, fans should be subject to quarantine surely. There would be a huge diaspora of every Euro nation in GB, no matter what countries get to the final they could fill it from foreign residents in London.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 20, 2021, 03:37:24 PM
ROI weekly update.

Cases 2221 (149 fewer cases than last week)
In hospital 49 (13 fewer than a week ago)
In ICU 15 (7 fewer than last Sunday)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on June 20, 2021, 05:34:07 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on June 20, 2021, 03:37:24 PM
ROI weekly update.

Cases 2221 (149 fewer cases than last week)
In hospital 49 (13 fewer than a week ago)
In ICU 15 (7 fewer than last Sunday)

Encouraging....at a time when we are seeing numbers creeping up elsewhere...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 22, 2021, 02:54:01 PM
Great to see Sam McConkey crawling out a few weeks before indoor dining is allowed. I'm not sure if it will go ahead on July 5th myself. Hopefully I'm wrong on this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 22, 2021, 05:22:14 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 22, 2021, 02:54:01 PM
Great to see Sam McConkey crawling out a few weeks before indoor dining is allowed. I'm not sure if it will go ahead on July 5th myself. Hopefully I'm wrong on this.

It will go ahead so long as the hospital situation stays in a very stable position. 39 in hospital and 13 in ICU at the moment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 23, 2021, 06:55:40 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/rapid-rise-in-coronavirus-delta-variant-in-ireland-over-past-week-to-be-discussed-at-cabinet-1.4599743
"What I would be worried about is the evolution of another variant which could spread widely among people who are vaccinated. That would be a terrifying prospect."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2021, 07:42:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 23, 2021, 06:55:40 AM
"What I would be worried about is the evolution of another variant which could spread widely among people who are vaccinated. That would be a terrifying prospect."

At least someone realises the risk.

Don't know why they don't just knock international travel on the head for all but the most essential.

Eventually, somewhere, with the current way of going, it will mutate to be largely outside of the vaccine's attack vectors - and then there'll be hell to pay if things remain as open as they are (w.r.t international travel).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 23, 2021, 08:39:25 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 23, 2021, 07:42:26 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 23, 2021, 06:55:40 AM
"What I would be worried about is the evolution of another variant which could spread widely among people who are vaccinated. That would be a terrifying prospect."

At least someone realises the risk.

Don't know why they don't just knock international travel on the head for all but the most essential.

Eventually, somewhere, with the current way of going, it will mutate to be largely outside of the vaccine's attack vectors - and then there'll be hell to pay if things remain as open as they are (w.r.t international travel).

Hospital cases remain low. No one in Covid ICU in the North. The vaccines work. I'm due to get my 2nd one next week. I think the governments realise that another 3 or 4 weeks most people over 30 will have had both jabs.
If a new variant emerges we will have to tweak the vaccine. Covid isn't going away but we now have a proven workable solution.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on June 23, 2021, 09:32:42 AM
I see they've invented sorry discovered a new variant in India now...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 23, 2021, 09:41:54 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 23, 2021, 09:32:42 AM
I see they've invented sorry discovered a new variant in India now...

No, you had it right the first time  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on June 23, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 23, 2021, 09:41:54 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 23, 2021, 09:32:42 AM
I see they've invented sorry discovered a new variant in India now...

No, you had it right the first time  ;)

"WHO wants to control the population?
WHY do they want to control it?
WHAT do they hope to achieve?"

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on June 23, 2021, 10:03:29 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 23, 2021, 09:32:42 AM
I see they've invented sorry discovered a new variant in India now...

And, along the same lines, who are they?

I shouldn't even ask, but I'm curious as to how your mind is working through to these conclusions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on June 23, 2021, 10:07:28 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 23, 2021, 10:03:29 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 23, 2021, 09:32:42 AM
I see they've invented sorry discovered a new variant in India now...

And, along the same lines, who are they?

I shouldn't even ask, but I'm curious as to how your mind is working through to these conclusions.

Ach FFS how many times do you need to be told,

Soros and Gates along with the rest of the New World Order.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 23, 2021, 10:25:00 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 23, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 23, 2021, 09:41:54 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 23, 2021, 09:32:42 AM
I see they've invented sorry discovered a new variant in India now...

No, you had it right the first time  ;)

"WHO wants to control the population?
WHY do they want to control it?
WHAT do they hope to achieve?"

Imagine taking control of BennyCake or Armagh18
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 23, 2021, 11:15:35 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 23, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 23, 2021, 09:41:54 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 23, 2021, 09:32:42 AM
I see they've invented sorry discovered a new variant in India now...

No, you had it right the first time  ;)

"WHO wants to control the population?
WHY do they want to control it?
WHAT do they hope to achieve?"

I've already answered all this and I'm not going to waste my time explaining it to you again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on June 23, 2021, 11:41:18 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 23, 2021, 11:15:35 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 23, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 23, 2021, 09:41:54 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 23, 2021, 09:32:42 AM
I see they've invented sorry discovered a new variant in India now...

No, you had it right the first time  ;)

"WHO wants to control the population?
WHY do they want to control it?
WHAT do they hope to achieve?"

I've already answered all this and I'm not going to waste my time explaining it to you again.

The Hillsborough, Birmingham 6, politicians being self serving, big bad governments, and this being a good place to start? Gotcha
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 23, 2021, 11:45:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 23, 2021, 10:25:00 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on June 23, 2021, 10:00:40 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 23, 2021, 09:41:54 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 23, 2021, 09:32:42 AM
I see they've invented sorry discovered a new variant in India now...

No, you had it right the first time  ;)

"WHO wants to control the population?
WHY do they want to control it?
WHAT do they hope to achieve?"

Imagine taking control of BennyCake or Armagh18
;D
It won't be too bad once they start going to school.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Scarlet on June 24, 2021, 08:57:10 PM
They are gearing up again now to say no to indoors on July 5th but don't have the decency to say it now before places order in food and get staff in.
There will be leaks and the talk will all be about Christmas again when there was not a sinner vaxxed up and the variant from London was let in with open arms. The people at risk have two doses at this stage too.

The HSE seemed to be giving a positive tone today but that will have to be stamped out.

Ridculous that big games can only have 200 at it and yet people can wander around shopping centres for hours no bother.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 24, 2021, 09:04:20 PM
I've said this for a long time, The only numbers they should be looking at is how many are double vaxxed, and hospital admission rates due to Covid related illness.

To open up everyone should have a least one flow test a week and people feel safe enough to take time off should they test positive
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 25, 2021, 07:55:24 AM
The end for Matt Hancock?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on June 25, 2021, 08:21:49 AM
They've been saving his sacking for the most opportune moment, this might actually upset their plans! Good old fashioned riding the aide might do him tho.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 25, 2021, 08:31:56 AM
So the Boris loving Sc*m newspaper has decided to nail Hancock.

How the Sc*m was able to access security footage of a Government ministers office would raise some eyebrows about the drivers behind all of this.

Perhaps Hancock cant be sacked (as he knows too much about Bojo - ala Cummings) and this will force his hand to resign with Bojo not getting his hands dirty at all.

This government really is the gift that keeps on giving
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 25, 2021, 08:47:26 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/full-return-of-pubs-and-restaurants-on-july-5th-looking-unlikely-1.4602908

A delay to the reopening of indoor hospitality is seen as increasingly likely, with Government and official sources expecting advice to stall the full reopening of restaurants and pubs beyond July 5th.

However, there are also concerns at senior levels of Government a delay may lead to further extensions, with the next window for more reopening not arising until as late as autumn.

The National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) is working on advice to be delivered to Government next week. Officials believe the more infectious Delta variant will account for more than half of infections by the second or third week of July, and 90 per cent in early August.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on June 25, 2021, 01:43:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 25, 2021, 08:47:26 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/full-return-of-pubs-and-restaurants-on-july-5th-looking-unlikely-1.4602908

A delay to the reopening of indoor hospitality is seen as increasingly likely, with Government and official sources expecting advice to stall the full reopening of restaurants and pubs beyond July 5th.

However, there are also concerns at senior levels of Government a delay may lead to further extensions, with the next window for more reopening not arising until as late as autumn.

The National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) is working on advice to be delivered to Government next week. Officials believe the more infectious Delta variant will account for more than half of infections by the second or third week of July, and 90 per cent in early August.

Who are these Official sources?

As of yesterday.

*Covid-19 case numbers down 22% in last 14 days v previous 14 days.
*Hospital cases falling.
*No spike in Delta cases leading to hospitalisation
*No outbreak in the last week in acute hospitals/nursing homes.
*Cases in the EU have collapsed in recent weeks, due to vaccination

Full breakdown of variants over the last number of months

. (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4uErRnXwAEG6sP?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 25, 2021, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 25, 2021, 01:43:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 25, 2021, 08:47:26 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/full-return-of-pubs-and-restaurants-on-july-5th-looking-unlikely-1.4602908

A delay to the reopening of indoor hospitality is seen as increasingly likely, with Government and official sources expecting advice to stall the full reopening of restaurants and pubs beyond July 5th.

However, there are also concerns at senior levels of Government a delay may lead to further extensions, with the next window for more reopening not arising until as late as autumn.

The National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) is working on advice to be delivered to Government next week. Officials believe the more infectious Delta variant will account for more than half of infections by the second or third week of July, and 90 per cent in early August.

Who are these Official sources?

As of yesterday.

*Covid-19 case numbers down 22% in last 14 days v previous 14 days.
*Hospital cases falling.
*No spike in Delta cases leading to hospitalisation
*No outbreak in the last week in acute hospitals/nursing homes.
*Cases in the EU have collapsed in recent weeks, due to vaccination

Full breakdown of variants over the last number of months

. (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4uErRnXwAEG6sP?format=jpg&name=small)

Tony Holohan is the only official that seems to have any say these days unfortunately. Actually Sam McConkey is on the news spreading doomsday scenarios such as 3,000 cases a day etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on June 25, 2021, 02:25:57 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 25, 2021, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 25, 2021, 01:43:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 25, 2021, 08:47:26 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/full-return-of-pubs-and-restaurants-on-july-5th-looking-unlikely-1.4602908

A delay to the reopening of indoor hospitality is seen as increasingly likely, with Government and official sources expecting advice to stall the full reopening of restaurants and pubs beyond July 5th.

However, there are also concerns at senior levels of Government a delay may lead to further extensions, with the next window for more reopening not arising until as late as autumn.

The National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) is working on advice to be delivered to Government next week. Officials believe the more infectious Delta variant will account for more than half of infections by the second or third week of July, and 90 per cent in early August.

Who are these Official sources?

As of yesterday.

*Covid-19 case numbers down 22% in last 14 days v previous 14 days.
*Hospital cases falling.
*No spike in Delta cases leading to hospitalisation
*No outbreak in the last week in acute hospitals/nursing homes.
*Cases in the EU have collapsed in recent weeks, due to vaccination

Full breakdown of variants over the last number of months

. (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4uErRnXwAEG6sP?format=jpg&name=small)

Tony Holohan is the only official that seems to have any say these days unfortunately. Actually Sam McConkey is on the news spreading doomsday scenarios such as 3,000 cases a day etc.
Sam was on the TV yesterday saying he was hopeful that re opening on July 5th can go ahead which is unlike him.

The Irish Times article is without much substance. "our sources told us what they think what other people are thinking which potentially be the advice nphet give
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 25, 2021, 03:15:32 PM
Cases aren't the important figures now. Hospital admissions are the important figure. When we didn't have a vaccine controlling cases was critical as they linked directly to hospitalisations. Now with the vaccine they don't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on June 25, 2021, 03:47:10 PM
But with the cases rising;  like they are in the North, the chances of hospitalisations increases...maybe ok now but when are these rising numbers going to peak ???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 25, 2021, 04:12:02 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 25, 2021, 03:47:10 PM
But with the cases rising;  like they are in the North, the chances of hospitalisations increases...maybe ok now but when are these rising numbers going to peak ???

The next fortnight is critical.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on June 25, 2021, 04:33:49 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 25, 2021, 04:12:02 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 25, 2021, 03:47:10 PM
But with the cases rising;  like they are in the North, the chances of hospitalisations increases...maybe ok now but when are these rising numbers going to peak ???

The next fortnight is critical.
that's what was said March 17 2020
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on June 25, 2021, 04:37:31 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 25, 2021, 04:33:49 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 25, 2021, 04:12:02 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 25, 2021, 03:47:10 PM
But with the cases rising;  like they are in the North, the chances of hospitalisations increases...maybe ok now but when are these rising numbers going to peak ???

The next fortnight is critical.
that's what was said March 17 2020

That announcement sparked the rush to buy toilet paper.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on June 25, 2021, 04:58:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 25, 2021, 04:33:49 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 25, 2021, 04:12:02 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 25, 2021, 03:47:10 PM
But with the cases rising;  like they are in the North, the chances of hospitalisations increases...maybe ok now but when are these rising numbers going to peak ???

The next fortnight is critical.
that's what was said March 17 2020
I wasn't sure if he was serious or it was sarcasm, it'll be a phrase that will enter the urban dictionary
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on June 25, 2021, 06:47:04 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 25, 2021, 02:25:57 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 25, 2021, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 25, 2021, 01:43:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 25, 2021, 08:47:26 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/full-return-of-pubs-and-restaurants-on-july-5th-looking-unlikely-1.4602908

A delay to the reopening of indoor hospitality is seen as increasingly likely, with Government and official sources expecting advice to stall the full reopening of restaurants and pubs beyond July 5th.

However, there are also concerns at senior levels of Government a delay may lead to further extensions, with the next window for more reopening not arising until as late as autumn.

The National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) is working on advice to be delivered to Government next week. Officials believe the more infectious Delta variant will account for more than half of infections by the second or third week of July, and 90 per cent in early August.

Who are these Official sources?

As of yesterday.

*Covid-19 case numbers down 22% in last 14 days v previous 14 days.
*Hospital cases falling.
*No spike in Delta cases leading to hospitalisation
*No outbreak in the last week in acute hospitals/nursing homes.
*Cases in the EU have collapsed in recent weeks, due to vaccination

Full breakdown of variants over the last number of months

. (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4uErRnXwAEG6sP?format=jpg&name=small)

Tony Holohan is the only official that seems to have any say these days unfortunately. Actually Sam McConkey is on the news spreading doomsday scenarios such as 3,000 cases a day etc.
Sam was on the TV yesterday saying he was hopeful that re opening on July 5th can go ahead which is unlike him.

The Irish Times article is without much substance. "our sources told us what they think what other people are thinking which potentially be the advice nphet give

What about the mental health of restaurants owners and their families, what about the mental health of the bar owners and their families, what about the mental health of the 40-80 year old's who have lost a year and a half of thier lives, and who already vaccinated and still cannot go into a rural pub for a few pints and a chat with similar folk.

IMO, it is utterly disgraceful, that the civil servants running the country are more worried about the potential virus variant, than the aforementioned mental wellbeing of people who are vaccinated and cannot still socialize or cannot attend an outdoor sporting event. Shame on them, and even more shame on the useless Government in power.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 25, 2021, 07:02:36 PM
Let her rip........ ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on June 25, 2021, 07:13:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 25, 2021, 07:02:36 PM
Let her rip........ ::)

Does that mean you disagree with me, fine. Then counter.
Wonder how you will feel 4 weeks from Sunday, if it is Mayo V Roscommon and they dont allow vaccinated people to attend, meanwhile in London they will be at 75% capacity at events in two weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 25, 2021, 07:56:04 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 25, 2021, 04:58:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 25, 2021, 04:33:49 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 25, 2021, 04:12:02 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 25, 2021, 03:47:10 PM
But with the cases rising;  like they are in the North, the chances of hospitalisations increases...maybe ok now but when are these rising numbers going to peak ???

The next fortnight is critical.
that's what was said March 17 2020
I wasn't sure if he was serious or it was sarcasm, it'll be a phrase that will enter the urban dictionary

Sarcasm. I'm sure we're all sick of that sentence at this stage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 25, 2021, 09:01:53 PM
Numbers coming from Israel are f**king grim.

Looks like Delta has really compromised the vaccines (not fully thank feck - but its not good).

Given the shite approach to track and trace so far - the horse has probably already bolted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 25, 2021, 09:15:17 PM
Quote from: joemamas on June 25, 2021, 07:13:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 25, 2021, 07:02:36 PM
Let her rip........ ::)

Does that mean you disagree with me, fine. Then counter.
Wonder how you will feel 4 weeks from Sunday, if it is Mayo V Roscommon and they dont allow vaccinated people to attend, meanwhile in London they will be at 75% capacity at events in two weeks.
I will be trying to avoid getting Covid Delta.
If that means nit being able to attend a feckin football match so be it.
My health is more important.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on June 25, 2021, 09:29:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 25, 2021, 09:15:17 PM
Quote from: joemamas on June 25, 2021, 07:13:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 25, 2021, 07:02:36 PM
Let her rip........ ::)

Does that mean you disagree with me, fine. Then counter.
Wonder how you will feel 4 weeks from Sunday, if it is Mayo V Roscommon and they dont allow vaccinated people to attend, meanwhile in London they will be at 75% capacity at events in two weeks.
I will be trying to avoid getting Covid Delta.
If that means nit being able to attend a feckin football match so be it.
My health is more important.

Whatever the variant you are far more likely to catch it with indoor activities than outdoors watching a match.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on June 25, 2021, 10:37:34 PM
Have a listen folks, especially for the anxious, it will do you the power of good for all that cortisol floating round in your blood stream is probably doing more damage in the long run. Go on, it can't do any harm.
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-fat-emperor-podcast/id1453181214?i=1000526862498
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on June 25, 2021, 10:50:07 PM
No thanks, Ivor is one of the most gullible conspiracy theorists out there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on June 25, 2021, 10:56:10 PM
Given this us a island closing the airports would reduced any delta variant and possible hit us bck to a normal life. The Covid rate will increase with holiday makers coming home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 25, 2021, 11:12:08 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 25, 2021, 09:01:53 PM
Numbers coming from Israel are f**king grim.

Looks like Delta has really compromised the vaccines (not fully thank feck - but its not good).

Given the shite approach to track and trace so far - the horse has probably already bolted.

Grim because they have gone up, but they still have only about one tenth of the number of cases here.
Israel pushed on an vaccinated 60% of people and then eased up. That is not enough for herd immunity so there are enough unvaccinated people to allow the thing spread. The basic point is that everyone has to get vaccinated, no acting the bollocks, to stop this.
But track and trace is also a way forward, RTÉ had a clip on during the week about Denmark which does a load of tests and keeps things under control.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tiempo on June 25, 2021, 11:16:27 PM
There should be reparations, f**king w**ks that made this in the lab should be strung up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 25, 2021, 11:19:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 25, 2021, 11:12:08 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 25, 2021, 09:01:53 PM
Numbers coming from Israel are f**king grim.

Looks like Delta has really compromised the vaccines (not fully thank feck - but its not good).

Given the shite approach to track and trace so far - the horse has probably already bolted.

Grim because they have gone up, but they still have only about one tenth of the number of cases here.
Israel pushed on an vaccinated 60% of people and then eased up. That is not enough for herd immunity so there are enough unvaccinated people to allow the thing spread. The basic point is that everyone has to get vaccinated, no acting the bollocks, to stop this.
But track and trace is also a way forward, RTÉ had a clip on during the week about Denmark which does a load of tests and keeps things under control.
A strange approach when they seemingly had it under control. A good analogy I saw last week is that if you see it as a fire and you get a fire under control but let it smoulder rather than fully extinguish it, there is a good likelihood it will rise up again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on June 25, 2021, 11:26:58 PM
Know a girl who has had the 2 jabs, got the new variant and was wiped out. Waiting game to see if the vaccine helps the elderly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on June 25, 2021, 11:43:56 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 25, 2021, 09:15:17 PM
Quote from: joemamas on June 25, 2021, 07:13:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 25, 2021, 07:02:36 PM
Let her rip........ ::)

Does that mean you disagree with me, fine. Then counter.
Wonder how you will feel 4 weeks from Sunday, if it is Mayo V Roscommon and they dont allow vaccinated people to attend, meanwhile in London they will be at 75% capacity at events in two weeks.
I will be trying to avoid getting Covid Delta.
If that means nit being able to attend a feckin football match so be it.
My health is more important.
If you're that worried about a wee cold sit in the house. Everyone else should be allowed out though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 25, 2021, 11:51:20 PM
Tough choice in a pandemic....CMO or Armagh 18......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on June 26, 2021, 08:05:24 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 25, 2021, 11:51:20 PM
Tough choice in a pandemic....CMO or Armagh 18......
You enjoy yourself now..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 26, 2021, 08:38:15 AM
Any word on if the south will be opening up?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 26, 2021, 10:17:41 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 26, 2021, 08:38:15 AM
Any word on if the south will be opening up?

Thursday I believe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 26, 2021, 10:19:32 AM
Quote from: ONeill on June 25, 2021, 11:26:58 PM
Know a girl who has had the 2 jabs, got the new variant and was wiped out. Waiting game to see if the vaccine helps the elderly.

My wife said she knows of someone similar. Two vaccines, went to England on a hen party, sick as a dog afterwards.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 26, 2021, 11:09:30 AM
And some posters telling us to be like England  ::)
Announcement expected Thursday on what will, may or may not be opening from 5th July.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0626/1231448-delta-variant/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 26, 2021, 12:03:44 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 26, 2021, 10:19:32 AM
My wife said she knows of someone similar. Two vaccines, went to England on a hen party, sick as a dog afterwards.

and this is connected to Covid?  :D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 26, 2021, 01:06:23 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 26, 2021, 10:17:41 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 26, 2021, 08:38:15 AM
Any word on if the south will be opening up?

Thursday I believe.
Until delta catches it like Conor Whelan hooking Michael Cahill.in 2017
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 26, 2021, 07:24:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 26, 2021, 08:38:15 AM
Any word on if the south will be opening up?

Further easing as the start of opening up was done a few weeks ago.


The next step from July 5th to be decided on Thursday and IMO the stable hospital situation and 4 million vaccines  administered should have a strong influence on whatever decisions are made.

From July 5th Communions, confirmation, baptism may take place. The current 200 attendees for outdoors sports could increase to 500 and indoor bars and restaurants could reopen though if they media are to believed that date will be pushed back at least two weeks.

International travel was penciled in for July 19th.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on June 26, 2021, 07:42:19 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on June 26, 2021, 07:24:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 26, 2021, 08:38:15 AM
Any word on if the south will be opening up?

Further easing as the start of opening up was done a few weeks ago.


The next step from July 5th to be decided on Thursday and IMO the stable hospital situation and 4 million vaccines  administered should have a strong influence on whatever decisions are made.

From July 5th Communions, confirmation, baptism may take place. The current 200 attendees for outdoors sports could increase to 500 and indoor bars and restaurants could reopen though if they media are to believed that date will be pushed back at least two weeks.

International travel was penciled in for July 19th.

It's been said a delay is likely because of the Delta variant https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/delay-to-july-5th-reopening-of-indoor-hospitality-likely-1.4602908
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 26, 2021, 08:24:32 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on June 26, 2021, 07:42:19 PM

It's been said a delay is likely because of the Delta variant https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/delay-to-july-5th-reopening-of-indoor-hospitality-likely-1.4602908

That's the usual speculation from the media before the government and NPHET meet. They may or may not be right.

Any delay should be based on our own situation.

For confirmation of our May and June easing of restrictions we had In hospital 155 and 44 and In ICU. Vaccines administered back then was 1.5M


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on June 26, 2021, 08:28:17 PM
There's been enough reports on radio and TV that it will be delayed. They have brought forward the meeting from next Thursday to give some clarity early next week
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on June 26, 2021, 08:41:10 PM
I'm heading Mayo direction Monday 5th, in party mode.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 26, 2021, 08:44:21 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on June 26, 2021, 08:28:17 PM
There's been enough reports on radio and TV that it will be delayed. They have brought forward the meeting from next Thursday to give some clarity early next week

The last few government/Nphet meetings has been done a week to 9 days before any easing has taken place
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on June 27, 2021, 01:22:20 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E41aezmXwAA_L0D?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 27, 2021, 10:09:58 AM
Indoor dining might be doable, for example in some places you are restricted to 4 per table and tables well apart. However, here people insist on drinking sessions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 27, 2021, 11:14:43 AM
It can be done safely though whether there is booze involved or not.

I saw that image on Twitter. Is it accurate? If so surely Ireland is not the only country in Europe that can't be trusted. I get the gravity of the whole thing but things need to start moving. If they don't move now then when can they?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on June 27, 2021, 12:11:52 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 27, 2021, 11:14:43 AM
It can be done safely though whether there is booze involved or not.

I saw that image on Twitter. Is it accurate? If so surely Ireland is not the only country in Europe that can't be trusted. I get the gravity of the whole thing but things need to start moving. If they don't move now then when can they?

Obviously everyone wants to get back to normal ASAP . Testing things in the summer , or indeed given some relief from restrictions in case there are further lockdowns, would make sense.
However the Irish psyche around binge drinking and socialising probably concerns health officials, especially given the inexplicable decision to open up in December for party season , which resulted in Ireland basically going from the top of the Covid league table to the bottom within a few weeks.
Alcohol is a factor because it depresses inhibition, in other words drinkers get careless, stay out longer, and care less about distancing and hygiene.

I would like to see restrictions lifted and tested progressively. Rather than the usual Irish attitude all-or-nothing ie prolonged draconian lockdown followed by hard earned  "party time".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 27, 2021, 12:34:41 PM
One problem is that they are not willing to have the inspection resources and fines to stop people acting the maggot and when others are getting away with it then places that might keep the rules start easing up too.

Iceland has opened up this weekend because 80%+ of adult have at least one vaccine shot and over half have both shots. Those numbers are what we need to open up. After APril Iceland sourced additional vaccine, easier for a smaller country, and pushed on beyond almost everywhere else.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 27, 2021, 01:11:59 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/c1451786-d951-460e-8e6b-e79100d949c8

Since April 1, the Delta virus is known to have infected around 18m people in India and claimed at least 232,000 lives. Analysts suspect the true toll is far higher.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on June 27, 2021, 02:06:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2021, 01:11:59 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/c1451786-d951-460e-8e6b-e79100d949c8

Since April 1, the Delta virus is known to have infected around 18m people in India and claimed at least 232,000 lives. Analysts suspect the true toll is far higher.

That's a mortality rate of 0.013%.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on June 27, 2021, 02:08:35 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2021, 01:11:59 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/c1451786-d951-460e-8e6b-e79100d949c8

Since April 1, the Delta virus is known to have infected around 18m people in India and claimed at least 232,000 lives. Analysts suspect the true toll is far higher.
Loads of mixing, little or no social distancing among non vaccinated people during their religious festival was main issue in India.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: John Martin on June 27, 2021, 03:48:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 27, 2021, 02:06:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2021, 01:11:59 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/c1451786-d951-460e-8e6b-e79100d949c8

Since April 1, the Delta virus is known to have infected around 18m people in India and claimed at least 232,000 lives. Analysts suspect the true toll is far higher.

That's a mortality rate of 0.013%.
Is it not 1.3%?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on June 27, 2021, 03:50:45 PM
ROI weekly update. Rise in cases mostly to do with the cluster outbreaks in Waterford, Sligo and Athlone. Hospital situation remains very stable.

Cases 2393 (172 more than last week)
In hospital 47 ( 2 fewer than last Sunday)
In ICU 15 (no change)

Interesting week ahead for the decision makers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on June 27, 2021, 04:02:17 PM
Until Covid is destroyed in poor areas of the world such as India, Brazil, East London, Russia etc, pubs will be opening and closing and opening and closing.

Over to Julia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3s3F1VXFQ4
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 27, 2021, 05:10:24 PM
Nonsense. It is not going to be eradicated in areas poor or otherwise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on June 27, 2021, 06:28:54 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on June 27, 2021, 03:50:45 PM
ROI weekly update. Rise in cases mostly to do with the cluster outbreaks in Waterford, Sligo and Athlone. Hospital situation remains very stable.

Cases 2393 (172 more than last week)
In hospital 47 ( 2 fewer than last Sunday)
In ICU 15 (no change)

Interesting week ahead for the decision makers.

47 in hospital for covid represents 0.00001% (yes that is four zeros) of the Irish Population.
This plus looking at the map at the top of the page has to be the WTF moment for Irish people.
How the heck do people who are fully vaccinated feel that they cannot eat indoors or go for a pint.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on June 27, 2021, 06:43:27 PM
Quote from: joemamas on June 27, 2021, 06:28:54 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on June 27, 2021, 03:50:45 PM
ROI weekly update. Rise in cases mostly to do with the cluster outbreaks in Waterford, Sligo and Athlone. Hospital situation remains very stable.

Cases 2393 (172 more than last week)
In hospital 47 ( 2 fewer than last Sunday)
In ICU 15 (no change)

Interesting week ahead for the decision makers.

47 in hospital for covid represents 0.00001% (yes that is four zeros) of the Irish Population.
This plus looking at the map at the top of the page has to be the WTF moment for Irish people.
How the heck do people who are fully vaccinated feel that they cannot eat indoors or go for a pint.

Watching the game between Holland & Cze Republic is a wtf moment for me, capacity crowd. Mean while in the democratic banana republic 200 bodies at a GAA match.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on June 27, 2021, 06:47:32 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 27, 2021, 06:43:27 PM
Quote from: joemamas on June 27, 2021, 06:28:54 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on June 27, 2021, 03:50:45 PM
ROI weekly update. Rise in cases mostly to do with the cluster outbreaks in Waterford, Sligo and Athlone. Hospital situation remains very stable.

Cases 2393 (172 more than last week)
In hospital 47 ( 2 fewer than last Sunday)
In ICU 15 (no change)

Interesting week ahead for the decision makers.

47 in hospital for covid represents 0.00001% (yes that is four zeros) of the Irish Population.
This plus looking at the map at the top of the page has to be the WTF moment for Irish people.
How the heck do people who are fully vaccinated feel that they cannot eat indoors or go for a pint.

Watching the game between Holland & Cze Republic is a wtf moment for me, capacity crowd. Mean while in the democratic banana republic 200 bodies at a GAA match.

Please don't get my blood pressure up to the max. I started a thread on the GAA discussion on this topic. Watched the Mayo v Sligo, the terrace behind the goal that would accommodate 4k or 5k,
Not a single person was standing there. Where are all the Gaelic Gael TD's and local politicians on this.
How many of them have gotten elected on the back of their GAA exploits, now radio silence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on June 27, 2021, 07:23:15 PM
Quote from: joemamas on June 27, 2021, 06:28:54 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on June 27, 2021, 03:50:45 PM
ROI weekly update. Rise in cases mostly to do with the cluster outbreaks in Waterford, Sligo and Athlone. Hospital situation remains very stable.

Cases 2393 (172 more than last week)
In hospital 47 ( 2 fewer than last Sunday)
In ICU 15 (no change)

Interesting week ahead for the decision makers.

47 in hospital for covid represents 0.00001% (yes that is four zeros) of the Irish Population.
This plus looking at the map at the top of the page has to be the WTF moment for Irish people.
How the heck do people who are fully vaccinated feel that they cannot eat indoors or go for a pint.

Did you verify the map is correct?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 27, 2021, 08:20:28 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on June 27, 2021, 07:23:15 PM
Did you verify the map is correct?

I'd say the situation is nuanced across different countries. Even in Ireland you can dine if you stay in an hotel, which I did during the week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 27, 2021, 08:30:45 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 27, 2021, 08:20:28 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on June 27, 2021, 07:23:15 PM
Did you verify the map is correct?

I'd say the situation is nuanced across different countries. Even in Ireland you can dine if you stay in an hotel, which I did during the week.

That's true. Stay in a hotel and you can eat in it, but go to the local coffee shop and you can't. Such a f**king shit-show 'St. Tony' and all have created.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 27, 2021, 08:42:36 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 27, 2021, 08:30:45 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 27, 2021, 08:20:28 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on June 27, 2021, 07:23:15 PM
Did you verify the map is correct?

I'd say the situation is nuanced across different countries. Even in Ireland you can dine if you stay in an hotel, which I did during the week.

That's true. Stay in a hotel and you can eat in it, but go to the local coffee shop and you can't. Such a f**king shit-show 'St. Tony' and all have created.

It allows the hotel open and the turnover of guests is very much less than in a coffee shop. People can get a takout coffee and sit out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on June 28, 2021, 11:12:14 PM
The next 2 weeks are vital. Hold firm.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 29, 2021, 12:56:27 AM
Quote from: highorlow on June 28, 2021, 11:12:14 PM
The next 2 weeks are vital. Hold firm.

The end is in sight though, impatience is inappropriate. Research today shows that RNA vaccines will likely have a long life. Other research shows that a third jab gives you protection with something to spare against any current variant. Yet other research shows that mixing vaccines gives you great protection. If everyone gets the job and doesn't act the maggot and if older people who haven't had Covid will get a booster in November and this will be over.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on June 29, 2021, 06:54:50 AM
There is no end in sight NPHET didn't give an end date.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on June 29, 2021, 08:22:06 AM
Am all for lockdown and all but it's getting a joke when you see the crowds at the Euros, there be another lockdown in the winter so it be better to let people get some enjoyment out of the summer. If they closed the airports I think we been on alot better situation so the problem is self inflicted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 29, 2021, 08:40:54 AM
If, if if, if.

If, if, if, if.

And if you do all that, and keep your doors locked, they can still close entire cities down at the drop of a hay.

——

It summertime. If we learned anything from last summer it's that the virus doesn't spread efficiently outdoors. It we should have learned anything from history it's that hospitals have more capacity in summer than winter.

The Irish govt are not leading. They're hiding behind the cupboard.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 29, 2021, 08:43:37 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 29, 2021, 08:40:54 AM
If, if if, if.

If, if, if, if.

And if you do all that, and keep your doors locked, they can still close entire cities down at the drop of a hay.

——

It summertime. If we learned anything from last summer it's that the virus doesn't spread efficiently outdoors. It we should have learned anything from history it's that hospitals have more capacity in summer than winter.

The Irish govt are not leading. They're hiding behind the cupboard.

Why would a Gov want to be the only ones left in Europe to have no indoor dinning?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 29, 2021, 08:55:56 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 29, 2021, 08:43:37 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 29, 2021, 08:40:54 AM
If, if if, if.

If, if, if, if.

And if you do all that, and keep your doors locked, they can still close entire cities down at the drop of a hay.

——

It summertime. If we learned anything from last summer it's that the virus doesn't spread efficiently outdoors. It we should have learned anything from history it's that hospitals have more capacity in summer than winter.

The Irish govt are not leading. They're hiding behind the cupboard.

Why would a Gov want to be the only ones left in Europe to have no indoor dinning?
They are in the control of Big Outdoor Dining.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 29, 2021, 09:04:33 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 29, 2021, 08:43:37 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 29, 2021, 08:40:54 AM
If, if if, if.

If, if, if, if.

And if you do all that, and keep your doors locked, they can still close entire cities down at the drop of a hay.

——

It summertime. If we learned anything from last summer it's that the virus doesn't spread efficiently outdoors. It we should have learned anything from history it's that hospitals have more capacity in summer than winter.

The Irish govt are not leading. They're hiding behind the cupboard.

Why would a Gov want to be the only ones left in Europe to have no indoor dinning?

They don't. They trying to deal themselves get out of jail free cards along the lines of "well wouldn't it have been worse if we had have opened earlier?" when hospitalisations inevitably rise in October. Except, based on last summer, there's no correlation in the impact between summer infections and autumn infections.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 29, 2021, 09:05:19 AM
The 26 counties are vaccinating 9% of the adult population each week, say 4% second jabs and 5% first jab. Waiting a couple of weeks does make a material difference.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 29, 2021, 09:19:45 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2021, 09:05:19 AM
The 26 counties are vaccinating 9% of the adult population each week, say 4% second jabs and 5% first jab. Waiting a couple of weeks does make a material difference.

A couple of weeks...the summer will be gone by then and Doomy Gloomahan will be recommending another lockdown for the winter to avoid last Christmas. MM is a spineless disgrace in this. Hiding behind NPHET in all of this too. Remember last year he said rolling lockdown until a vaccine was found, now we have 4 vaccines operating and this lockdown for pubs and businesses and GAA matches seems to have no sign of abating. I was in favour of lockdown initially, but it's beyond a joke at this stage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on June 29, 2021, 09:24:12 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2021, 09:05:19 AM
The 26 counties are vaccinating 9% of the adult population each week, say 4% second jabs and 5% first jab. Waiting a couple of weeks does make a material difference.

Sure why ever go back? Just wait forever.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 29, 2021, 09:24:35 AM
My daughter is working in a bar in Belfast these last few nights, says the place is full of ones from down South, obviously fed up and heading to Belfast for nights out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on June 29, 2021, 09:28:13 AM
Quote from: highorlow on June 28, 2021, 11:12:14 PM
The next 2 weeks are vital. Hold firm.

Great advice as there's quite a few not taking this seriously enough
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 29, 2021, 09:38:02 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0629/1231914-cabinet-hospitality-reopening-delay/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on June 29, 2021, 09:40:25 AM
I've always seen the right side of the reasoning for the lockdowns/reatrictions. Like everyone been frustrated/fed up/down about them at various times but always felt it was for greater good etc.

Patience wearing thin and I said before, it's the speculation and uncertainty that bites in the week before an announcement.

The better half explains it that NEPHET will only ever see the medical reasoning and consider no other factors. That is their brief and any decision they will make will be medical based and purely about saving lifes, be it one or 100. So they'll always err on side of caution, extremely in my view on latest reports.

What irks me is that they continue to be re-active and no alternatives have been out in place such as wider testing in quick response to outbreaks, amendments to vaccine usage only now happening with change if use in age groups and shortening gap.

At any stage 6 weeks ago did someone say we have to open by 5th July what do we need to do now to make that happen? Maybe with variants that wasn't as apparent but surely forward planning should assume such a scenario and plan as if it will happen. Was any real effort made to made indoor activities safer six weeks ago? Guidance issued?

The other factor is that you can't do certain things here but can do them elsewhere without any impact e.g travel to Newry or Belfast for pints/food indoors, shortly fly to Spain for the same but seemingly we won't be doing this at home. Can stay in hotel and eat/drink but step outside and you can't.

I can wait 2 weeks but it's the outlook that would concern me. They always seem to find a reason to keep closing or not opening but offer little planning to get things moving. Vaccines seemed the magic solution but apparently not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on June 29, 2021, 09:58:43 AM
I've always favoured lying on the side of caution with the lockdowns given how quickly we have seen it go from manageable to a mess. However I agree now should be the time to test the water. Opening up indoor hospitality to a degree is needed to keep people onside.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 29, 2021, 10:00:35 AM
Nobody is dying from Covid and hospital admissions remain low. The case for not opening up doesn't really stack up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on June 29, 2021, 10:08:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 29, 2021, 09:24:35 AM
My daughter is working in a bar in Belfast these last few nights, says the place is full of ones from down South, obviously fed up and heading to Belfast for nights out
No coincidence test the higher case rates are being found in Newry & Derry areas atm either I'd imagine, 2 border Cities with a bit of nightlife about them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 29, 2021, 10:09:56 AM
Quote from: LoutherAt any stage 6 weeks ago did someone say we have to open by 5th July what do we need to do now to make that happen? Maybe with variants that wasn't as apparent but surely forward planning should assume such a scenario and plan as if it will happen. Was any real effort made to made indoor activities safer six weeks ago? Guidance issued?

NPHET can issue guidance, but the relevant authorities will make little effort to enforce it and you'll have a load of publicans who want to run drinking sessions whining.

Quote from: Louther on June 29, 2021, 09:40:25 AM
I can wait 2 weeks but it's the outlook that would concern me. They always seem to find a reason to keep closing or not opening but offer little planning to get things moving. Vaccines seemed the magic solution but apparently not.

Vaccines are the solution, but not everyone is vaccinated yet. The new variant is twice as transmissible as the original, so you need more vaccination to stop it. We will have more vaccination but it takes time to do everyone.

In sporting terms, this is a bit like someone with an injury who the doctor said would be able to play and who when the time comes the doctor says he will have to wait a few more weeks. You don't want a Michael Murphy to go back playing and then have to come off again. But whatever disappointment there is, it does not mean that the doctor is trying to stop the player playing again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 29, 2021, 10:10:59 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 29, 2021, 10:08:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 29, 2021, 09:24:35 AM
My daughter is working in a bar in Belfast these last few nights, says the place is full of ones from down South, obviously fed up and heading to Belfast for nights out
No coincidence test the higher case rates are being found in Newry & Derry areas atm either I'd imagine, 2 border Cities with a bit of nightlife about them.

There have been recent clusters in Kilkeel and Castlewellan, hardly party central.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on June 29, 2021, 10:22:15 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2021, 10:09:56 AM
Quote from: LoutherAt any stage 6 weeks ago did someone say we have to open by 5th July what do we need to do now to make that happen? Maybe with variants that wasn't as apparent but surely forward planning should assume such a scenario and plan as if it will happen. Was any real effort made to made indoor activities safer six weeks ago? Guidance issued?

NPHET can issue guidance, but the relevant authorities will make little effort to enforce it and you'll have a load of publicans who want to run drinking sessions whining.

Quote from: Louther on June 29, 2021, 09:40:25 AM
I can wait 2 weeks but it's the outlook that would concern me. They always seem to find a reason to keep closing or not opening but offer little planning to get things moving. Vaccines seemed the magic solution but apparently not.

Vaccines are the solution, but not everyone is vaccinated yet. The new variant is twice as transmissible as the original, so you need more vaccination to stop it. We will have more vaccination but it takes time to do everyone.

In sporting terms, this is a bit like someone with an injury who the doctor said would be able to play and who when the time comes the doctor says he will have to wait a few more weeks. You don't want a Michael Murphy to go back playing and then have to come off again. But whatever disappointment there is, it does not mean that the doctor is trying to stop the player playing again.

Yes, people will ignore guidance but majority will and put effort into it like we see with the outdoor areas. You can't not do something because some % won't follow it. You then have something to work off as opposed to nothing and it's this do nothing situation that is frustrating people.

Yes, vaccines are the way forward but you have to balance the risks to those unvaccinated and the people who are vacinnated. If they said we can do the 60plus over next two weeks, give us that, fair enough. But why wasn't this decided 4 weeks ago?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on June 29, 2021, 11:07:23 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2021, 10:10:59 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 29, 2021, 10:08:14 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 29, 2021, 09:24:35 AM
My daughter is working in a bar in Belfast these last few nights, says the place is full of ones from down South, obviously fed up and heading to Belfast for nights out
No coincidence test the higher case rates are being found in Newry & Derry areas atm either I'd imagine, 2 border Cities with a bit of nightlife about them.

There have been recent clusters in Kilkeel and Castlewellan, hardly party central.
And what? Clusters are clusters, regular higher numbers are a trend. Not sure what you are trying to defend ??? Cross border partying is through the roof
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 29, 2021, 11:18:22 AM
The longer the south keep these restrictions in place then the longer border towns and the likes of Belfast will thrive. Belfast is bunged with people up from down south on weekends.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on June 29, 2021, 11:38:32 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 29, 2021, 11:18:22 AM
The longer the south keep these restrictions in place then the longer border towns and the likes of Belfast will thrive. Belfast is bunged with people up from down south on weekends.
Sure you love to see it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mario on June 29, 2021, 11:49:26 AM
From the north but unfortunately I booked my wedding over the border before covid, paying €000's at the time so it's not easy to move. Now on our 4th date, due at the end of the month. 50 invites sent out last week and now this news. Honestly at the end of my tether with it all, we are going ahead regardless but at this stage it is a massive blow to potentially have to cut our numbers in half with 3 weeks to go, after all the cuts we've already made.

I know this doesn't impact most people and yes there are more serious things to worry about during a pandemic but this has caused so much stress to couples trying to get married for the last 15 months.

After i'm married I hope to never have to look at Tony Holohan, Sam McConkey and Michael Martin again. Never thought id say this but I nearly appreciate how Stormont and the UK have handled this (post the initial wave).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on June 29, 2021, 12:12:50 PM
Quote from: Mario on June 29, 2021, 11:49:26 AM
From the north but unfortunately I booked my wedding over the border before covid, paying €000's at the time so it's not easy to move. Now on our 4th date, due at the end of the month. 50 invites sent out last week and now this news. Honestly at the end of my tether with it all, we are going ahead regardless but at this stage it is a massive blow to potentially have to cut our numbers in half with 3 weeks to go, after all the cuts we've already made.

I know this doesn't impact most people and yes there are more serious things to worry about during a pandemic but this has caused so much stress to couples trying to get married for the last 15 months.

After i'm married I hope to never have to look at Tony Holohan, Sam McConkey and Michael Martin again. Never thought id say this but I nearly appreciate how Stormont and the UK have handled this (post the initial wave).

This is your problem and not the pandemic  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on June 29, 2021, 12:15:36 PM
Bonkers stuff it seems. They keeping all closed until 19th July until they come up with a system to allow vaccinated people indoors for hospitality.

Off bad ideas, this is the baddest of them of all.

Not a clue how to operate a normal business or work in the real world do any of these clowns have. Public service at its very best  ::)

Flights be full overseas, motorway heaving to the north.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on June 29, 2021, 12:16:34 PM
Quote from: Mario on June 29, 2021, 11:49:26 AM
From the north but unfortunately I booked my wedding over the border before covid, paying €000's at the time so it's not easy to move. Now on our 4th date, due at the end of the month. 50 invites sent out last week and now this news. Honestly at the end of my tether with it all, we are going ahead regardless but at this stage it is a massive blow to potentially have to cut our numbers in half with 3 weeks to go, after all the cuts we've already made.

I know this doesn't impact most people and yes there are more serious things to worry about during a pandemic but this has caused so much stress to couples trying to get married for the last 15 months.

After i'm married I hope to never have to look at Tony Holohan, Sam McConkey and Michael Martin again. Never thought id say this but I nearly appreciate how Stormont and the UK have handled this (post the initial wave).

Extension of weddings to 50 is to go ahead it seems. Fingers crossed for you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on June 29, 2021, 12:24:51 PM
Any indication if there's going to be revised numbers allowed to watch outdoor sport this morning??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on June 29, 2021, 12:28:56 PM
Quote from: mackers on June 29, 2021, 12:24:51 PM
Any indication if there's going to be revised numbers allowed to watch outdoor sport this morning??

Some increases from 100 to 200 and 200 to 500 it seems depending on venue. At local level for club games this isn't an issue, seen over 200 at u13 games.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 29, 2021, 12:40:16 PM
Quote from: Louther on June 29, 2021, 12:16:34 PM
Quote from: Mario on June 29, 2021, 11:49:26 AM
From the north but unfortunately I booked my wedding over the border before covid, paying €000's at the time so it's not easy to move. Now on our 4th date, due at the end of the month. 50 invites sent out last week and now this news. Honestly at the end of my tether with it all, we are going ahead regardless but at this stage it is a massive blow to potentially have to cut our numbers in half with 3 weeks to go, after all the cuts we've already made.

I know this doesn't impact most people and yes there are more serious things to worry about during a pandemic but this has caused so much stress to couples trying to get married for the last 15 months.

After i'm married I hope to never have to look at Tony Holohan, Sam McConkey and Michael Martin again. Never thought id say this but I nearly appreciate how Stormont and the UK have handled this (post the initial wave).

Extension of weddings to 50 is to go ahead it seems. Fingers crossed for you.

Was at a wedding here in the North last week, 120 at it and it was a brilliant night, carried on to the next day at another hotel and to date, a week later, no positive results form anyone who attended
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 29, 2021, 12:41:16 PM
Over 3,000 cases in Scotland yesterday.
"Hasn't gone away ya know"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 12:43:33 PM
Proposal to allow the fully vaccinated eat & drink indoors. The un-clean or lepers in society can stay at home, welcome to the Banana Republic. Blantant & dangerous  discrimination, personally I have no issues getting the vaccine, this however would make me re-consider if it happens.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mario on June 29, 2021, 12:47:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 29, 2021, 12:40:16 PM
Quote from: Louther on June 29, 2021, 12:16:34 PM
Quote from: Mario on June 29, 2021, 11:49:26 AM
From the north but unfortunately I booked my wedding over the border before covid, paying €000's at the time so it's not easy to move. Now on our 4th date, due at the end of the month. 50 invites sent out last week and now this news. Honestly at the end of my tether with it all, we are going ahead regardless but at this stage it is a massive blow to potentially have to cut our numbers in half with 3 weeks to go, after all the cuts we've already made.

I know this doesn't impact most people and yes there are more serious things to worry about during a pandemic but this has caused so much stress to couples trying to get married for the last 15 months.

After i'm married I hope to never have to look at Tony Holohan, Sam McConkey and Michael Martin again. Never thought id say this but I nearly appreciate how Stormont and the UK have handled this (post the initial wave).

Extension of weddings to 50 is to go ahead it seems. Fingers crossed for you.

Was at a wedding here in the North last week, 120 at it and it was a brilliant night, carried on to the next day at another hotel and to date, a week later, no positive results form anyone who attended
Yeah I was at one 2 weeks ago with 140 at it. Makes it all the more sickening we booked over the border.

Yeah I see rumours of 50 to get the go ahead, lets hope so, because I don't fancy dealing with my other half if it's not the case. Tony Holohan's life will be in danger from crazed brides to be!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 29, 2021, 12:48:03 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 12:43:33 PM
Proposal to allow the fully vaccinated eat & drink indoors. The un-clean or lepers in society can stay at home, welcome to the Banana Republic. Blantant & dangerous  discrimination, personally I have no issues getting the vaccine, this however would make me re-consider if it happens.

Do you mean if they bring the rule in that you have to be vaccinated to eat/drink indoors you wont be getting the jabs but that if they dont bring the rule in then you will get the jabs?

While not personally knowing you Rudi if that is your logic it doesnt make much sense to me
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 12:53:51 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 29, 2021, 12:48:03 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 12:43:33 PM
Proposal to allow the fully vaccinated eat & drink indoors. The un-clean or lepers in society can stay at home, welcome to the Banana Republic. Blantant & dangerous  discrimination, personally I have no issues getting the vaccine, this however would make me re-consider if it happens.

Do you mean if they bring the rule in that you have to be vaccinated to eat/drink indoors you wont be getting the jabs but that if they dont bring the rule in then you will get the jabs?

While not personally knowing you Rudi if that is your logic it doesnt make much sense to me

I don't believe it's right, everyone or nobody. Tis discrimination against those that have legitimate vaccine concerns.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on June 29, 2021, 01:11:27 PM
Quote from: mackers on June 29, 2021, 12:24:51 PM
Any indication if there's going to be revised numbers allowed to watch outdoor sport this morning??
Did I not read somewhere there's 8,000 allowed into CP for the hurling this weekend?

The North due for a review this week, hopefully there'll be a big increase in the max numbers for games
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on June 29, 2021, 01:15:28 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 12:53:51 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 29, 2021, 12:48:03 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 12:43:33 PM
Proposal to allow the fully vaccinated eat & drink indoors. The un-clean or lepers in society can stay at home, welcome to the Banana Republic. Blantant & dangerous  discrimination, personally I have no issues getting the vaccine, this however would make me re-consider if it happens.

Do you mean if they bring the rule in that you have to be vaccinated to eat/drink indoors you wont be getting the jabs but that if they dont bring the rule in then you will get the jabs?

While not personally knowing you Rudi if that is your logic it doesnt make much sense to me

I don't believe it's right, everyone or nobody. Tis discrimination against those that have legitimate vaccine concerns.
And what about restaurant and bar owners to have genuine concerns about letting unvaccinated people in, increasing the risk of closure of their business again? Or does concern about the vaccine trump other peoples concerns?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 29, 2021, 01:22:01 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 12:53:51 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 29, 2021, 12:48:03 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 12:43:33 PM
Proposal to allow the fully vaccinated eat & drink indoors. The un-clean or lepers in society can stay at home, welcome to the Banana Republic. Blantant & dangerous  discrimination, personally I have no issues getting the vaccine, this however would make me re-consider if it happens.

Do you mean if they bring the rule in that you have to be vaccinated to eat/drink indoors you wont be getting the jabs but that if they dont bring the rule in then you will get the jabs?

While not personally knowing you Rudi if that is your logic it doesnt make much sense to me

I don't believe it's right, everyone or nobody. Tis discrimination against those that have legitimate vaccine concerns.

But how would this decision make you decide to not get the vaccine?

Yet if this decision isnt made you would get the vaccine?

Im not following
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 01:30:00 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 29, 2021, 01:22:01 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 12:53:51 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 29, 2021, 12:48:03 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 12:43:33 PM
Proposal to allow the fully vaccinated eat & drink indoors. The un-clean or lepers in society can stay at home, welcome to the Banana Republic. Blantant & dangerous  discrimination, personally I have no issues getting the vaccine, this however would make me re-consider if it happens.

Do you mean if they bring the rule in that you have to be vaccinated to eat/drink indoors you wont be getting the jabs but that if they dont bring the rule in then you will get the jabs?

While not personally knowing you Rudi if that is your logic it doesnt make much sense to me

I don't believe it's right, everyone or nobody. Tis discrimination against those that have legitimate vaccine concerns.

But how would this decision make you decide to not get the vaccine?

Yet if this decision isnt made you would get the vaccine?

Im not following

Thats perfectly fine Taylor, "if you do not follow". I'm not here to convince you otherwise. We can all make decisions for ourselves. I believe its discrimination & I won't be having it. Its trying to ostracize people from society, I believe thats dangerous. Gay people, lepers, falling women were excluded from society before, its not right or good. An element of solidarity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 29, 2021, 01:38:11 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 01:30:00 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 29, 2021, 01:22:01 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 12:53:51 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 29, 2021, 12:48:03 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 12:43:33 PM
Proposal to allow the fully vaccinated eat & drink indoors. The un-clean or lepers in society can stay at home, welcome to the Banana Republic. Blantant & dangerous  discrimination, personally I have no issues getting the vaccine, this however would make me re-consider if it happens.

Do you mean if they bring the rule in that you have to be vaccinated to eat/drink indoors you wont be getting the jabs but that if they dont bring the rule in then you will get the jabs?

While not personally knowing you Rudi if that is your logic it doesnt make much sense to me

I don't believe it's right, everyone or nobody. Tis discrimination against those that have legitimate vaccine concerns.

But how would this decision make you decide to not get the vaccine?

Yet if this decision isnt made you would get the vaccine?

Im not following

Thats perfectly fine Taylor, "if you do not follow". I'm not here to convince you otherwise. We can all make decisions for ourselves. I believe its discrimination & I won't be having it. Its trying to ostracize people from society, I believe thats dangerous. Gay people, lepers, falling women were excluded from society before, its not right or good. An element of solidarity.

As its a discussion board I was trying to understand your point of view.

So you are willing to risk your own health and that of the wider community in order to make a point and show an element of solidarity.

I get it now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on June 29, 2021, 01:43:37 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on June 29, 2021, 01:15:28 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 12:53:51 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 29, 2021, 12:48:03 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 12:43:33 PM
Proposal to allow the fully vaccinated eat & drink indoors. The un-clean or lepers in society can stay at home, welcome to the Banana Republic. Blantant & dangerous  discrimination, personally I have no issues getting the vaccine, this however would make me re-consider if it happens.

Do you mean if they bring the rule in that you have to be vaccinated to eat/drink indoors you wont be getting the jabs but that if they dont bring the rule in then you will get the jabs?

While not personally knowing you Rudi if that is your logic it doesnt make much sense to me

I don't believe it's right, everyone or nobody. Tis discrimination against those that have legitimate vaccine concerns.
And what about restaurant and bar owners to have genuine concerns about letting unvaccinated people in, increasing the risk of closure of their business again? Or does concern about the vaccine trump other peoples concerns?

What about the many young people working in restaurants,bars that aren't vaccinated are they now to be told by their owners that they are to be let go?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on June 29, 2021, 01:49:18 PM
Would seem an unworkable policy that will automatically get the heckles up of large swathes of society who will make it uncomfortable for some establishments - I'd say the hospitality industry will object very strongly, it will put them in some very awkward positions with customers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 01:50:46 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 29, 2021, 01:38:11 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 01:30:00 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 29, 2021, 01:22:01 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 12:53:51 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 29, 2021, 12:48:03 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 12:43:33 PM
Proposal to allow the fully vaccinated eat & drink indoors. The un-clean or lepers in society can stay at home, welcome to the Banana Republic. Blantant & dangerous  discrimination, personally I have no issues getting the vaccine, this however would make me re-consider if it happens.

Do you mean if they bring the rule in that you have to be vaccinated to eat/drink indoors you wont be getting the jabs but that if they dont bring the rule in then you will get the jabs?

While not personally knowing you Rudi if that is your logic it doesnt make much sense to me

I don't believe it's right, everyone or nobody. Tis discrimination against those that have legitimate vaccine concerns.

But how would this decision make you decide to not get the vaccine?

Yet if this decision isnt made you would get the vaccine?

Im not following

Thats perfectly fine Taylor, "if you do not follow". I'm not here to convince you otherwise. We can all make decisions for ourselves. I believe its discrimination & I won't be having it. Its trying to ostracize people from society, I believe thats dangerous. Gay people, lepers, falling women were excluded from society before, its not right or good. An element of solidarity.

As its a discussion board I was trying to understand your point of view.

So you are willing to risk your own health and that of the wider community in order to make a point and show an element of solidarity.

I get it now

How exactly would I be affecting my own health or that of others. I look after myself (always have) I am compliant with all NPET guidelines in respect of Covid. Covid was in our house, my wife & child had it. Despite sleeping in the same bed, watching TV & been roomed up with the 2 for 17 days never managed to get it. You're been theatrical.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on June 29, 2021, 01:56:39 PM
MM talking rubbish. Back to my earlier point, no planning and now reactive measures. Talking about herd immunity when this was never mentioned previously and now only considering "vaccine passports" for the vaccinated. As if this stuff only fell out of the sky. And I don't agree with them either.

Instead of looking for alternatives and having these in place, the Irish Gov only plan is to say No. only talk of cases today, none on deaths or hospitalisations. I know one follows the other but case profile and risks far less.

They've lost the plot. It seems since Dr Tony went for a drive in Dublin City centre one evening he been on a mission since to get his own back for the bit of shade that went his way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on June 29, 2021, 02:07:35 PM
I've stayed quiet on most of the Government plans both North and South for a while as it's not easy and they have an unenviable task. Also I follow lunatics like Digger and Ewan MacKenna who are constantly shouting and quote tweeting anti vaxxers etc. so don't want to be lumped in with them.

However that graph that Nphet are using for their latest projection is absolute nonsense and shouldn't be forming the basis for f**k all!!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5CDSx2WUAAMPlu?format=png&name=medium)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on June 29, 2021, 02:19:28 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 29, 2021, 02:07:35 PM
I've stayed quiet on most of the Government plans both North and South for a while as it's not easy and they have an unenviable task. Also I follow lunatics like Digger and Ewan MacKenna who are constantly shouting and quote tweeting anti vaxxers etc. so don't want to be lumped in with them.

However that graph that Nphet are using for their latest projection is absolute nonsense and shouldn't be forming the basis for f**k all!!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5CDSx2WUAAMPlu?format=png&name=medium)

Exactly what science is this based on ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on June 29, 2021, 02:35:32 PM
Quote from: Louther on June 29, 2021, 01:56:39 PM
MM talking rubbish. Back to my earlier point, no planning and now reactive measures. Talking about herd immunity when this was never mentioned previously and now only considering "vaccine passports" for the vaccinated. As if this stuff only fell out of the sky. And I don't agree with them either.

Instead of looking for alternatives and having these in place, the Irish Gov only plan is to say No. only talk of cases today, none on deaths or hospitalisations. I know one follows the other but case profile and risks far less.

They've lost the plot. It seems since Dr Tony went for a drive in Dublin City centre one evening he been on a mission since to get his own back for the bit of shade that went his way.

Bingo.

The actions of the government, both leaders MM and LV and their cabinet ministers is not short of shocking and disgraceful.
Why wait until June 29th to come up with the idea of a proof of vaccination, is there not one (just one) that could have anticipated this a few months ago, and said ok here is plan B.
For a country that is tourist dependent it boggles the mind., the businesses in the six counties will be sending MM, LV and in particular Dr. T big thank you cards, while the restaurant owners, hotel owners and bar owners in the border counties will hopefully not forget, the next time their candidates come looking for their votes.

Last but not least, there are 47 currently in hospital being treated for Covid, (God willing they all recover). This represents 0.00001% (yes that is four zeros) of the total population including folks under 14, exclude them the number is even smaller.

It truly is egregious. Banana Republic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on June 29, 2021, 02:41:40 PM
Quote from: joemamas on June 29, 2021, 02:35:32 PM
Quote from: Louther on June 29, 2021, 01:56:39 PM
MM talking rubbish. Back to my earlier point, no planning and now reactive measures. Talking about herd immunity when this was never mentioned previously and now only considering "vaccine passports" for the vaccinated. As if this stuff only fell out of the sky. And I don't agree with them either.

Instead of looking for alternatives and having these in place, the Irish Gov only plan is to say No. only talk of cases today, none on deaths or hospitalisations. I know one follows the other but case profile and risks far less.

They've lost the plot. It seems since Dr Tony went for a drive in Dublin City centre one evening he been on a mission since to get his own back for the bit of shade that went his way.

Bingo.

The actions of the government, both leaders MM and LV and their cabinet ministers is not short of shocking and disgraceful.
Why wait until June 29th to come up with the idea of a proof of vaccination, is there not one (just one) that could have anticipated this a few months ago, and said ok here is plan B.
For a country that is tourist dependent it boggles the mind., the businesses in the six counties will be sending MM, LV and in particular Dr. T big thank you cards, while the restaurant owners, hotel owners and bar owners in the border counties will hopefully not forget, the next time their candidates come looking for their votes.

Last but not least, there are 47 currently in hospital being treated for Covid, (God willing they all recover). This represents 0.00001% (yes that is four zeros) of the total population including folks under 14, exclude them the number is even smaller.

It truly is egregious. Banana Republic.

I don't feel it's the right decision by the government but can never work out the logic above. Quoting the number in hospital as an argument against the governments actions the last while doesnt really make sense. You could argue that their actions have helped ensure the numbers are so low and that if they'd opened up many more people would have got sick and died.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 29, 2021, 02:51:12 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 29, 2021, 02:07:35 PM
I've stayed quiet on most of the Government plans both North and South for a while as it's not easy and they have an unenviable task. Also I follow lunatics like Digger and Ewan MacKenna who are constantly shouting and quote tweeting anti vaxxers etc. so don't want to be lumped in with them.

However that graph that Nphet are using for their latest projection is absolute nonsense and shouldn't be forming the basis for f**k all!!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5CDSx2WUAAMPlu?format=png&name=medium)

Whats happening in mid September?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on June 29, 2021, 02:51:38 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 01:50:46 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 29, 2021, 01:38:11 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 01:30:00 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 29, 2021, 01:22:01 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 12:53:51 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 29, 2021, 12:48:03 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 29, 2021, 12:43:33 PM
Proposal to allow the fully vaccinated eat & drink indoors. The un-clean or lepers in society can stay at home, welcome to the Banana Republic. Blantant & dangerous  discrimination, personally I have no issues getting the vaccine, this however would make me re-consider if it happens.

Do you mean if they bring the rule in that you have to be vaccinated to eat/drink indoors you wont be getting the jabs but that if they dont bring the rule in then you will get the jabs?

While not personally knowing you Rudi if that is your logic it doesnt make much sense to me

I don't believe it's right, everyone or nobody. Tis discrimination against those that have legitimate vaccine concerns.

But how would this decision make you decide to not get the vaccine?

Yet if this decision isnt made you would get the vaccine?

Im not following

Thats perfectly fine Taylor, "if you do not follow". I'm not here to convince you otherwise. We can all make decisions for ourselves. I believe its discrimination & I won't be having it. Its trying to ostracize people from society, I believe thats dangerous. Gay people, lepers, falling women were excluded from society before, its not right or good. An element of solidarity.

As its a discussion board I was trying to understand your point of view.

So you are willing to risk your own health and that of the wider community in order to make a point and show an element of solidarity.

I get it now

How exactly would I be affecting my own health or that of others. I look after myself (always have) I am compliant with all NPET guidelines in respect of Covid. Covid was in our house, my wife & child had it. Despite sleeping in the same bed, watching TV & been roomed up with the 2 for 17 days never managed to get it. You're been theatrical.

Theatrical.

In what way?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 29, 2021, 02:55:17 PM
Quote from: Louther on June 29, 2021, 01:56:39 PM
MM talking rubbish. Back to my earlier point, no planning and now reactive measures. Talking about herd immunity when this was never mentioned previously and now only considering "vaccine passports" for the vaccinated. As if this stuff only fell out of the sky. And I don't agree with them either.

Instead of looking for alternatives and having these in place, the Irish Gov only plan is to say No. only talk of cases today, none on deaths or hospitalisations. I know one follows the other but case profile and risks far less.

They've lost the plot. It seems since Dr Tony went for a drive in Dublin City centre one evening he been on a mission since to get his own back for the bit of shade that went his way.

Cases to hospitalisation ratio is totally different now that the vaccine is being rolled out. Cases is a shitty metric now that we have the vaccine. The only figures that should matter is hospitalisations and Covid ICU figures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on June 29, 2021, 03:02:09 PM
Communions and Confirmations that was planned for early July are off but weddings with guests of 50 people can proceed. Where is the logic in allowing one over the other?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on June 29, 2021, 03:03:50 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 29, 2021, 02:55:17 PM
Quote from: Louther on June 29, 2021, 01:56:39 PM
MM talking rubbish. Back to my earlier point, no planning and now reactive measures. Talking about herd immunity when this was never mentioned previously and now only considering "vaccine passports" for the vaccinated. As if this stuff only fell out of the sky. And I don't agree with them either.

Instead of looking for alternatives and having these in place, the Irish Gov only plan is to say No. only talk of cases today, none on deaths or hospitalisations. I know one follows the other but case profile and risks far less.

They've lost the plot. It seems since Dr Tony went for a drive in Dublin City centre one evening he been on a mission since to get his own back for the bit of shade that went his way.

Cases to hospitalisation ratio is totally different now that the vaccine is being rolled out. Cases is a shitty metric now that we have the vaccine. The only figures that should matter is hospitalisations and Covid ICU figures.

Yes, that was my point. We hear talk that the vaccine reduces hospitalisation and risk of serious illness but has been put into projections or been out to Gov? We know it's a race now between vaccines and spread but genuinely feel like there is little light or hope at this time.

Just one line up after another.

If they going to put a vaccine passport in place they should also have a rapid testing system as well like other countries have where a very recent negative test is accepted.

Maybe they could have tested such things at these trial events they running which where just glorified reduced attendances that had tens of people in space for 1,000s.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on June 29, 2021, 03:08:27 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 29, 2021, 03:02:09 PM
Communions and Confirmations that was planned for early July are off but weddings with guests of 50 people can proceed. Where is the logic in allowing one over the other?
There has been no logic in anything this past year.
Tayto Park full of people at the weekend but only 200 allowed into Semple Stadium 🙄
Every shopping centre in the country is jam packed but you can't have a pint and a bit of grub in a pub.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mario on June 29, 2021, 03:10:29 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 29, 2021, 03:02:09 PM
Communions and Confirmations that was planned for early July are off but weddings with guests of 50 people can proceed. Where is the logic in allowing one over the other?
A wedding is one of the biggest days of your life, many people have been waiting a year to go ahead and have spent a lot of money. The stress it would cause people to call them off at this stage has been deemed greater than the covid benefits.

Holy Communions and confirmations impact a lot more people thus might impact spread more, it's a nice day but people don't really care about them that much to the extent if they are delayed it will impact them severely.

That would be my logic why weddings are more important. That being said I don't think holy communions or confirmations should be off either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on June 29, 2021, 03:19:07 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 29, 2021, 03:02:09 PM
Communions and Confirmations that was planned for early July are off but weddings with guests of 50 people can proceed. Where is the logic in allowing one over the other?

Off for July where people can sit outside and mostly do whatever socialising they wish in the outdoors or go to one of the approved outdoor dining or pubs.

Likely moved to September when all be indoors again.

I know more people involved, round country etc etc but it just doesn't make sense to me at this stage. This is a new restriction imposed it would appear.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on June 29, 2021, 03:55:11 PM
What about opening  a pub or restaurant at 25 or 50% capacity with spread out tables? The rest of the world has been doing this for a year .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on June 29, 2021, 04:04:13 PM
Just want to point out that in a number of European countries, you cannot dine/drink indoors, go to the cinema etc... unless you are vaccinated or have had a negative covid test. Latvia being one of those countries.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on June 29, 2021, 04:10:12 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on June 29, 2021, 04:04:13 PM
Just want to point out that in a number of European countries, you cannot dine/drink indoors, go to the cinema etc... unless you are vaccinated or have had a negative covid test. Latvia being one of those countries.

Yes, but have planned and adjusted settings for this where it is been applied. They looked at that option long before implementing it and out in place guidance, plans for certs or additional testing.

This today was ruled out previously and ignored. Now they scrambling round trying to figure it out and talking as if it's a new concept. It's amateur hour when people are trying to line with it.

And it's not just about getting a pint, couldn't bother me but they whole outlook. Suddenly schools are back in the spotlight and that months away.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on June 29, 2021, 04:28:55 PM
Quote from: Louther on June 29, 2021, 04:10:12 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on June 29, 2021, 04:04:13 PM
Just want to point out that in a number of European countries, you cannot dine/drink indoors, go to the cinema etc... unless you are vaccinated or have had a negative covid test. Latvia being one of those countries.

Yes, but have planned and adjusted settings for this where it is been applied. They looked at that option long before implementing it and out in place guidance, plans for certs or additional testing.

This today was ruled out previously and ignored. Now they scrambling round trying to figure it out and talking as if it's a new concept. It's amateur hour when people are trying to line with it.

And it's not just about getting a pint, couldn't bother me but they whole outlook. Suddenly schools are back in the spotlight and that months away.

Not disputing that, just pointing out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on June 29, 2021, 05:30:00 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 29, 2021, 01:11:27 PM
Quote from: mackers on June 29, 2021, 12:24:51 PM
Any indication if there's going to be revised numbers allowed to watch outdoor sport this morning??
Did I not read somewhere there's 8,000 allowed into CP for the hurling this weekend?

The North due for a review this week, hopefully there'll be a big increase in the max numbers for games
Play the AI in Armagh ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on June 29, 2021, 05:46:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 29, 2021, 05:02:56 PM
Germany hasn't lost England in Wembley since 1966!!
(https://acegif.com/wp-content/gifs/german-flag-11.gif)

I think you might have posted that in the wrong thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 29, 2021, 06:19:59 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 29, 2021, 05:46:38 PM
I think you might have posted that in the wrong thread.

Whatever give you that impression  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 29, 2021, 07:41:42 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 29, 2021, 05:30:00 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 29, 2021, 01:11:27 PM
Quote from: mackers on June 29, 2021, 12:24:51 PM
Any indication if there's going to be revised numbers allowed to watch outdoor sport this morning??
Did I not read somewhere there's 8,000 allowed into CP for the hurling this weekend?

The North due for a review this week, hopefully there'll be a big increase in the max numbers for games
Play the AI in Armagh ;)

It's perfect for casement. Oh wait...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 29, 2021, 08:14:15 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 29, 2021, 07:41:42 PM

It's perfect for casement. Oh wait...

They can use Casement for the All Ireland baling championship.

Meanwhile
(https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=557143&d=1624992288)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on June 29, 2021, 10:16:31 PM
Why are we not doing what New Zealand do? They have 30 cases in total at the moment and 4 today. All those cases are in managed isolation and quarantine. So there are no cases in the community in New Zealand. The last daily Irish figure I saw is 350 or so.

What are they doing? As far as I know when you have a few cases in a place you have a localised lockdown. You don't follow the Irish and British example of waiting for things to get out of control before implimenting lockdowns that never end.

In my opinion in terms of travel overseas I think you have plague rules. These are harsh and unfair but necessary. There should be basically no coming and going without quarantine. New Zealand are basically containing all their cases at the border. Why don't we do this? New Zealand are living covid free while Ireland and the rest of the world struggles.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on June 29, 2021, 10:46:41 PM
Some crowd at Wembley, not a mask in site inside or out, and England bound to have worse stats for coronavirus, so how come some game are only allowed 200 people at, pure bollocks, Sinn Feinn will walk into the nxt govt.All they have to do is say nothing. Cause the resentment from the confusing Covid rules will end the current givt.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on June 29, 2021, 10:55:13 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 29, 2021, 10:46:41 PM
Some crowd at Wembley, not a mask in site inside or out, and England bound to have worse stats for coronavirus, so how come some game are only allowed 200 people at, pure bollocks, Sinn Feinn will walk into the nxt govt.All they have to do is say nothing. Cause the resentment from the confusing Covid rules will end the current givt.

Cases are rising in the UK and I expect restrictions to be reintroduced. England wanted to limit the crowds in Wembley and UEFA told them they'd lose the games for semi final and final if they did. England backed down so this is the result. How that works out is anyone's guess, but it's a hell of a gamble
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on June 29, 2021, 10:57:05 PM
How come covid and delta is spreading so much with everyone wearing masks ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on June 29, 2021, 11:00:27 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on June 29, 2021, 10:55:13 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 29, 2021, 10:46:41 PM
Some crowd at Wembley, not a mask in site inside or out, and England bound to have worse stats for coronavirus, so how come some game are only allowed 200 people at, pure bollocks, Sinn Feinn will walk into the nxt govt.All they have to do is say nothing. Cause the resentment from the confusing Covid rules will end the current givt.

Cases are rising in the UK and I expect restrictions to be reintroduced. England wanted to limit the crowds in Wembley and UEFA told them they'd lose the games for semi final and final if they did. England backed down so this is the result. How that works out is anyone's guess, but it's a hell of a gamble
Love to see it. Not a mission BoJo wants to keep lockdown much longer snd really no excuse at this stage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 29, 2021, 11:00:37 PM
Quote from: highorlow on June 29, 2021, 10:57:05 PM
How come covid and delta is spreading so much with everyone wearing masks ?

Are they though? It's pretty poor lately from what I can see.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on June 29, 2021, 11:02:55 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on June 29, 2021, 10:55:13 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 29, 2021, 10:46:41 PM
Some crowd at Wembley, not a mask in site inside or out, and England bound to have worse stats for coronavirus, so how come some game are only allowed 200 people at, pure bollocks, Sinn Feinn will walk into the nxt govt.All they have to do is say nothing. Cause the resentment from the confusing Covid rules will end the current givt.

Cases are rising in the UK and I expect restrictions to be reintroduced. England wanted to limit the crowds in Wembley and UEFA told them they'd lose the games for semi final and final if they did. England backed down so this is the result. How that works out is anyone's guess, but it's a hell of a gamble

I can't see restrictions coming back in UK. They basically saying now that vaccines are available for everyone and that covid is going to be like the flu and a balance of risk and normalcy has to be found. They are opening up more rather than closing and people are just carrying on as normal - masks, restrictions etc are out the window. UEFA had no influence on capacity for today / each country sets own attendance but they made noise about quarantine for VIPs and guests for semi final and final and UK bowed to that.

You can be sure with them in it, they'll fill the place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on June 29, 2021, 11:26:39 PM
QuoteAre they though? It's pretty poor lately from what I can see.

Ah, that's the reason. Go and tell NPHET
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 29, 2021, 11:30:41 PM
Quote from: highorlow on June 29, 2021, 11:26:39 PM
QuoteAre they though? It's pretty poor lately from what I can see.

Ah, that's the reason. Go and tell NPHET

Most people are double vaccinated and thinking they are fine
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on June 29, 2021, 11:36:02 PM
For those that I see not wearing masks none look that unwell, coughing, sneezing, feverish etc. Are we really suggesting they are solely the vectors for "Delta". I've had my 2 jabs and I'm happy to look after myself from now on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 30, 2021, 01:46:10 PM
Quote from: highorlow on June 29, 2021, 10:57:05 PM
How come covid and delta is spreading so much with everyone wearing masks ?

From Australia - it appears that it can spread between hotel quarantine rooms via the air-con systems.

Obviously each room is not independently HEPA filtered - but that is a very worrying degree of viral persistence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on June 30, 2021, 02:10:37 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 29, 2021, 11:00:37 PM
Quote from: highorlow on June 29, 2021, 10:57:05 PM
How come covid and delta is spreading so much with everyone wearing masks ?

Are they though? It's pretty poor lately from what I can see.

Very poor in Derry City the last while re masks. Beforehand you could be in a busy shop, maybe 1 without a mask, nowadays the percentage is much much higher.. Hence the spread
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on June 30, 2021, 02:15:33 PM
Two thirds of 2000 covid cases potentially linked to England Vs Scotland. 300+ cases were at the game.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 02:44:15 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 30, 2021, 01:46:10 PM
Quote from: highorlow on June 29, 2021, 10:57:05 PM
How come covid and delta is spreading so much with everyone wearing masks ?

From Australia - it appears that it can spread between hotel quarantine rooms via the air-con systems.

Obviously each room is not independently HEPA filtered - but that is a very worrying degree of viral persistence.
that's some magic virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on June 30, 2021, 02:45:51 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 30, 2021, 02:15:33 PM
Two thirds of 2000 covid cases potentially linked to England Vs Scotland. 300+ cases were at the game.
You'd think if you were at that match you'd have the cop on not to get tested...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 30, 2021, 02:53:36 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 30, 2021, 01:46:10 PM
Quote from: highorlow on June 29, 2021, 10:57:05 PM
How come covid and delta is spreading so much with everyone wearing masks ?

From Australia - it appears that it can spread between hotel quarantine rooms via the air-con systems.

Obviously each room is not independently HEPA filtered - but that is a very worrying degree of viral persistence.

Australia under pressure now. A fucked up vaccine rollout and the Delta variant isn't a good mix. It could be a rough few months if the virus gets hold.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 30, 2021, 03:11:31 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2021, 02:53:36 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 30, 2021, 01:46:10 PM
Quote from: highorlow on June 29, 2021, 10:57:05 PM
How come covid and delta is spreading so much with everyone wearing masks ?

From Australia - it appears that it can spread between hotel quarantine rooms via the air-con systems.

Obviously each room is not independently HEPA filtered - but that is a very worrying degree of viral persistence.

Australia under pressure now. A fucked up vaccine rollout and the Delta variant isn't a good mix. It could be a rough few months if the virus gets hold.

Only 5% of the population in Australia fully vaccinated as well
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on June 30, 2021, 03:38:05 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 30, 2021, 02:45:51 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 30, 2021, 02:15:33 PM
Two thirds of 2000 covid cases potentially linked to England Vs Scotland. 300+ cases were at the game.
You'd think if you were at that match you'd have the cop on not to get tested...

I would say the GAA are right to limit the number of spectators at games. Antrim fans and Armagh fans mingling in the stadium and down in the pub for a few drinks after - no thank you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 30, 2021, 03:40:22 PM
Still 500 in the North?
Australia not so wonderful now it seems. Only 5% vaccinated?
Did the Government think they weren't going to need to vaccinate the general population?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 04:11:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 30, 2021, 03:40:22 PM
Still 500 in the North?
Australia not so wonderful now it seems. Only 5% vaccinated?
Did the Government think they weren't going to need to vaccinate the general population?
Australia has out smarted themselves a bit if your policy is zero covid  and the country is shut down to the outside world pretty much why would a population take a new vaccine that's for a virus that the government is promising will never come to their country .
Maybe Australians never want to leave the country again or are happy not to have anyone visit without 2 weeks quarantine, sad for expats but the natives  seem happy enough there .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on June 30, 2021, 04:14:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 04:11:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 30, 2021, 03:40:22 PM
Still 500 in the North?
Australia not so wonderful now it seems. Only 5% vaccinated?
Did the Government think they weren't going to need to vaccinate the general population?
Australia has out smarted themselves a bit if your policy is zero covid  and the country is shut down to the outside world pretty much why would a population take a new vaccine that's for a virus that the government is promising will never come to their country .
Maybe Australians never want to leave the country again or are happy not to have anyone visit without 2 weeks quarantine, sad for expats but the natives  seem happy enough there .

Zero Covid is a great idea but it isn't a long term solution. The long term solution is the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on June 30, 2021, 04:16:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2021, 04:14:38 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 04:11:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 30, 2021, 03:40:22 PM
Still 500 in the North?
Australia not so wonderful now it seems. Only 5% vaccinated?
Did the Government think they weren't going to need to vaccinate the general population?
Australia has out smarted themselves a bit if your policy is zero covid  and the country is shut down to the outside world pretty much why would a population take a new vaccine that's for a virus that the government is promising will never come to their country .
Maybe Australians never want to leave the country again or are happy not to have anyone visit without 2 weeks quarantine, sad for expats but the natives  seem happy enough there .

Zero Covid is a great idea but it isn't a long term solution. The long term solution is the vaccine.

Stupid strategy in all honesty. What are Australia going to do? Close themselves off to the world permanently? Or wait until the rest if the world is vaccinated because the latter isn't going to happen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on June 30, 2021, 04:40:50 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 30, 2021, 03:38:05 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 30, 2021, 02:45:51 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 30, 2021, 02:15:33 PM
Two thirds of 2000 covid cases potentially linked to England Vs Scotland. 300+ cases were at the game.
You'd think if you were at that match you'd have the cop on not to get tested...

I would say the GAA are right to limit the number of spectators at games. Antrim fans and Armagh fans mingling in the stadium and down in the pub for a few drinks after - no thank you.

Far from right. A limit on supporters attending matches means more will be watching the matches in pubs. A yes for me attending a match outdoors and no thank you to watching a match indoors in a pub especially until I get my 2nd dose of vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on June 30, 2021, 04:48:27 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 30, 2021, 02:15:33 PM
Two thirds of 2000 covid cases potentially linked to England Vs Scotland. 300+ cases were at the game.

What does potentially mean. "with the capacity to develop or happen in the future",
it is not based on any scientific data.
Like the headline re NPHET
"More than 2,000 could die from Covid-19 by September, Nphet warns
'Significant' fourth wave likely due to Delta variant, letter to Government says"
Of course this was the worst scenario of five estimates, the other four were not mentioned, why not? Scaremongering?


At this time June 29th, there are 46 people with Covid in hospital.  That is 0.00001% of the Irish population of 4.5 Million.
I hope to GOD they all have a full recovery, I wonder how many of the 46 had compromised immune systems, or underlying conditions.

How a govt can continue to shut down entire industries, how a govt will not allow fully vaccinated folks into outdoor stadiums, just beggars belief.
wonder what the mental toll will be on the owners and families of said businesses if they fail. What about the continued impact of older single people in rural Ireland would would stop in for a few pints evry now and again and have a chat with friends.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on June 30, 2021, 04:59:59 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 30, 2021, 04:40:50 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 30, 2021, 03:38:05 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 30, 2021, 02:45:51 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 30, 2021, 02:15:33 PM
Two thirds of 2000 covid cases potentially linked to England Vs Scotland. 300+ cases were at the game.
You'd think if you were at that match you'd have the cop on not to get tested...

I would say the GAA are right to limit the number of spectators at games. Antrim fans and Armagh fans mingling in the stadium and down in the pub for a few drinks after - no thank you.

Far from right. A limit on supporters attending matches means more will be watching the matches in pubs. A yes for me attending a match outdoors and no thank you to watching a match indoors in a pub especially until I get my 2nd dose of vaccine.

They might well be watching it in the pub but it won't be thousands of fans within one mile of a stadium.

The point I was making was if everything was allowed to go back to normal and there was a capacity crowd at the Athletic grounds on Sunday (or any game for that matter) you would have thousands of fans in the stadium (which in itself, I agree isn't a problem as it is outside) but it is what happens afterwards, the pubs would likely be packed out as would public transport. The next thing that would happen is everyone will make their way home so you will have hundreds if not thousands of fans mingling on public transport.   


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 30, 2021, 05:06:51 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 30, 2021, 04:59:59 PM
The point I was making was if everything was allowed to go back to normal and there was a capacity crowd at the Athletic grounds on Sunday (or any game for that matter) you would have thousands of fans in the stadium (which in itself, I agree isn't a problem as it is outside) but it is what happens afterwards, the pubs would likely be packed out as would public transport. The next thing that would happen is everyone will make their way home so you will have hundreds if not thousands of fans mingling on public transport.   

Public transport will not be huge issue in the Athletic Grounds, it may be in Croke Park
If they bring in a Covid passport for restaurants then hopefully the same will apply to stadia.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Solo_run on June 30, 2021, 05:12:01 PM
Quote from: joemamas on June 30, 2021, 04:48:27 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 30, 2021, 02:15:33 PM
Two thirds of 2000 covid cases potentially linked to England Vs Scotland. 300+ cases were at the game.

What does potentially mean. "with the capacity to develop or happen in the future",
it is not based on any scientific data.
Like the headline re NPHET
"More than 2,000 could die from Covid-19 by September, Nphet warns
'Significant' fourth wave likely due to Delta variant, letter to Government says"
Of course this was the worst scenario of five estimates, the other four were not mentioned, why not? Scaremongering?


At this time June 29th, there are 46 people with Covid in hospital.  That is 0.00001% of the Irish population of 4.5 Million.
I hope to GOD they all have a full recovery, I wonder how many of the 46 had compromised immune systems, or underlying conditions.

How a govt can continue to shut down entire industries, how a govt will not allow fully vaccinated folks into outdoor stadiums, just beggars belief.
wonder what the mental toll will be on the owners and families of said businesses if they fail. What about the continued impact of older single people in rural Ireland would would stop in for a few pints evry now and again and have a chat with friends.

I am guessing they can't specifically identify Wembley as being the main reason but perhaps it is as a result of being in that general area where people would have had to check in. It was kind of stupid allowing it to happen considering Glasgow were experiencing high levels of the Delta variant. 

There is always going to be wave after wave now regardless of having the vaccine. The vaccine doesn't stop people from getting it so it is something we have to live with but obviously not everyone is vaccinated yet.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 30, 2021, 05:51:55 PM
An in law of an in law got it last January, spent a long time in ICU and 5 months in total in Hospital.
He was the only one in the ICU at that time to survive.
He can barely talk now and needs crutches to walk and is in poor condition over all.
He's mid 60s.
But sure not being able to get in to a match is a serious problem according to some.

By the way NPHET were going to recommend indoor dining and drinking remain closed till end of September.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on June 30, 2021, 06:25:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 30, 2021, 05:51:55 PM
An in law of an in law got it last January, spent a long time in ICU and 5 months in total in Hospital.
He was the only one in the ICU at that time to survive.
He can barely talk now and needs crutches to walk and is in poor condition over all.
He's mid 60s.
But sure not being able to get in to a match is a serious problem according to some.

By the way NPHET were going to recommend indoor dining and drinking remain closed till end of September.

Did that person and others pick up the virus outdoors watching a match?  If indoor dining in the south is to remain closed throughout the summer I highly doubt the NPHET lads will have the confidence to open things up in the autumn and winter which is the normal viral infection season
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on June 30, 2021, 06:36:33 PM
Indoors will only be opening with some system of vaccine certs/Corona pass/"other workable solution"
A working group of Trade and Government is being set up to come up with a way out.
Scotland now has higher numbers of infections than at any time during the pandemic with 250 in Hospital.
47 in Hospital here.
Numbers up by 4 times in the North the last few weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2021, 06:58:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 30, 2021, 06:36:33 PM
Indoors will only be opening with some system of vaccine certs/Corona pass/"other workable solution"
A working group of Trade and Government is being set up to come up with a way out.
Scotland now has higher numbers of infections than at any time during the pandemic with 250 in Hospital.
47 in Hospital here.
Numbers up by 4 times in the North the last few weeks.

How many are hospitalised due to Covid in the north and any in ICU ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2021, 07:01:09 PM
20 in hospital 2 in ICU and nearly all under age of 19
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on June 30, 2021, 07:08:58 PM
In the 26 counties, 44 in hospital and 14 in ICU. It was 41 and 13 last Wednesday, things remains in a very stable situation in hospital.

Sam McConkey who is normally one of the most pessimistic people during this virus reckons the hospitalisation rate with the Delta variant won't be anything like the first and third waves or anything that should compromise the basics of our health service. Of course he's giving the view knowing  near 70% adults had a Dose 1 of vaccines & near 50% fully vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 30, 2021, 07:57:33 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 30, 2021, 06:25:15 PM
Did that person and others pick up the virus outdoors watching a match?  If indoor dining in the south is to remain closed throughout the summer I highly doubt the NPHET lads will have the confidence to open things up in the autumn and winter which is the normal viral infection season

If everyone is vaccinated then this disease will not spread much. Although in the autumn, it might still spread through schools.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on June 30, 2021, 08:41:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 30, 2021, 05:06:51 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on June 30, 2021, 04:59:59 PM
The point I was making was if everything was allowed to go back to normal and there was a capacity crowd at the Athletic grounds on Sunday (or any game for that matter) you would have thousands of fans in the stadium (which in itself, I agree isn't a problem as it is outside) but it is what happens afterwards, the pubs would likely be packed out as would public transport. The next thing that would happen is everyone will make their way home so you will have hundreds if not thousands of fans mingling on public transport.   

Public transport will not be huge issue in the Athletic Grounds, it may be in Croke Park
If they bring in a Covid passport for restaurants then hopefully the same will apply to stadia.

But why? Fully vaccinated people can still pass it on or get the virus from matches/restaurants , and then bring it home, to work, etc. The same as unvaccinated people.

If you get the vaccine, and feel you are protected, then why worry about going to matches where there are unvaccinated people?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 30, 2021, 09:11:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 02:44:15 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 30, 2021, 01:46:10 PM
Quote from: highorlow on June 29, 2021, 10:57:05 PM
How come covid and delta is spreading so much with everyone wearing masks ?

From Australia - it appears that it can spread between hotel quarantine rooms via the air-con systems.

Obviously each room is not independently HEPA filtered - but that is a very worrying degree of viral persistence.
that's some magic virus.

Stupid people deem something as magic by their ignorance.


Your trying to be smart and sarcastic - and have made clear you are neither. My post already outlined the how. That was tested and verified in Australia before I made the post.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 30, 2021, 09:14:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 04:11:03 PM
Australia has out smarted themselves a bit if your policy is zero covid  and the country is shut down to the outside world pretty much why would a population take a new vaccine that's for a virus that the government is promising will never come to their country .

When did the govt promise that?

They haven't rolled out the vaccine as deliveries to australia have been poor. The one vaccine they had in reasonable numbers was AZ - which the media hyperboled the problems of to the point many of the public won't take it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 30, 2021, 09:16:54 PM
Quote from: joemamas on June 30, 2021, 04:48:27 PM
How a govt can continue to shut down entire industries, how a govt will not allow fully vaccinated folks into outdoor stadiums, just beggars belief.

You know what beggars belief?

We're now 16 or so months on from when it first hit these shores....


and people are still so fukking ignorant of what exponential growth means.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 30, 2021, 09:18:58 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on June 30, 2021, 08:41:32 PM
But why? Fully vaccinated people can still pass it on or get the virus from matches/restaurants , and then bring it home, to work, etc. The same as unvaccinated people.

Yes, they can get it and can pass it on.

But the odds on them either/both becoming ill and passing it on are reduced as their immune system won't allow the virus to replicate to the levels needed to make them ill and/or spread to others.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 10:00:34 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 30, 2021, 09:11:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 02:44:15 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 30, 2021, 01:46:10 PM
Quote from: highorlow on June 29, 2021, 10:57:05 PM
How come covid and delta is spreading so much with everyone wearing masks ?

From Australia - it appears that it can spread between hotel quarantine rooms via the air-con systems.

Obviously each room is not independently HEPA filtered - but that is a very worrying degree of viral persistence.
that's some magic virus.

Stupid people deem something as magic by their ignorance.


Your trying to be smart and sarcastic - and have made clear you are neither. My post already outlined the how. That was tested and verified in Australia before I made the post.
the air only goes one way into the room correct
Where does the ac unit get its air From inside or outside?
The virus came from a lab do you agree with me on that 16 months later smart guy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2021, 10:15:39 PM
So it was engineered to generate world lockdown bringing down economies so that those who manufactured masks vaccines and hand cream ruled the world?

It's so clear now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 10:19:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2021, 10:15:39 PM
So it was engineered to generate world lockdown bringing down economies so that those who manufactured masks vaccines and hand cream ruled the world?

It's so clear now
ah no it was an accident
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on June 30, 2021, 10:28:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 10:00:34 PM
the air only goes one way into the room correct
Where does the ac unit get its air From inside or outside?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-13/hotel-quarantine-ventilation-air-purifiers-reduce-covid-threat/13146068

Quote from: Gmac on June 30, 2021, 10:00:34 PM
The virus came from a lab do you agree with me on that 16 months later smart guy

I don't believe it is an engineered virus.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9


Although I'll freely admit - if the Chinese think trying to hide their incompetence in identifying the danger is more important than showing the world they didn't actually make the thing then they need their f**king heads examined.

Is it a natural virus that escaped a lab due to incompetence? Possibly. Which may feed into why they seem to be covering up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on June 30, 2021, 11:52:58 PM
"It was so depressing at home. It's like a new life in Belfast" : Drogheda woman.

The Irish Sun reporting that "many NI hotels are 90% occupied by fed up customers from the Republic."

#TomorrowsPapersToday https://t.co/vfx2Tk2Evy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on June 30, 2021, 11:54:05 PM
if going drinking in Belfast improves your life, then things must be pretty bad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 30, 2021, 11:55:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 30, 2021, 11:54:05 PM
if going drinking in Belfast improves your life, then things must be pretty bad.
She's from Drogheda.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2021, 11:57:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 30, 2021, 11:54:05 PM
if going drinking in Belfast improves your life, then things must be pretty bad.

You saying drogheda is better night out than Belfast?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 01, 2021, 12:00:26 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 30, 2021, 11:54:05 PM
if going drinking in Belfast improves your life, then things must be pretty bad.
You've clearly never been out in Belfast then. Or been to Drogheda.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 01, 2021, 12:04:19 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 01, 2021, 12:00:26 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 30, 2021, 11:54:05 PM
if going drinking in Belfast improves your life, then things must be pretty bad.
You've clearly never been out in Belfast then. Or been to Drogheda.

Well now that you mention Drogheda.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 01, 2021, 12:14:25 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 01, 2021, 12:00:26 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 30, 2021, 11:54:05 PM
if going drinking in Belfast improves your life, then things must be pretty bad.
You've clearly never been out in Belfast then. Or been to Drogheda.

Been to it many times. It's not a patch on Belfast eateries bars or nightlife, but sure you explain to me it is
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 01, 2021, 07:37:19 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 01, 2021, 12:14:25 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 01, 2021, 12:00:26 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 30, 2021, 11:54:05 PM
if going drinking in Belfast improves your life, then things must be pretty bad.
You've clearly never been out in Belfast then. Or been to Drogheda.

Been to it many times. It's not a patch on Belfast eateries bars or nightlife, but sure you explain to me it is
??? That's exactly what I'm saying. Belfast is one of the best places you can go for a day/night out. Drogheda just isn't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on July 01, 2021, 01:31:15 PM
Interesting couple of Covid related articles in the UK Times today, summarised points:

- Relaxed about high infections as a lot of young people are driving it, bringing them ever closer to Herd Immunity threshold while simultaneously ramping up vaccination to all age groups - also meaning those young people can do without vaccines, the UK govt are wrestling with the idea of vaccinating teenagers.

- JCVI member Professor Robert Dingwall "it's well past time to panic about infection rates and to publish them obsessively. Even hospitalisation rates are increasingly misleading as better therapy reduces length of stay. Covid is now a long way from being an important cause of mortality".

- UK (England in reality) opening 19th July no matter what. Time to learn to live with Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 01, 2021, 03:02:27 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 01, 2021, 01:31:15 PM
Interesting couple of Covid related articles in the UK Times today, summarised points:

- Relaxed about high infections as a lot of young people are driving it, bringing them ever closer to Herd Immunity threshold while simultaneously ramping up vaccination to all age groups - also meaning those young people can do without vaccines, the UK govt are wrestling with the idea of vaccinating teenagers.

- JCVI member Professor Robert Dingwall "it's well past time to panic about infection rates and to publish them obsessively. Even hospitalisation rates are increasingly misleading as better therapy reduces length of stay. Covid is now a long way from being an important cause of mortality".

- UK (England in reality) opening 19th July no matter what. Time to learn to live with Covid.
Yup agree with that. Case numbers kind of irrelevant at this stage. Open up, keep vaccinating anyone who wants it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on July 01, 2021, 04:45:30 PM
BBC News - Covid-19: Ministers back live music resuming on 5 July
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57644502

500 cap to go for outdoor sport from Friday, if confirmed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on July 01, 2021, 05:59:55 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 01, 2021, 03:02:27 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 01, 2021, 01:31:15 PM
Interesting couple of Covid related articles in the UK Times today, summarised points:

- Relaxed about high infections as a lot of young people are driving it, bringing them ever closer to Herd Immunity threshold while simultaneously ramping up vaccination to all age groups - also meaning those young people can do without vaccines, the UK govt are wrestling with the idea of vaccinating teenagers.

- JCVI member Professor Robert Dingwall "it's well past time to panic about infection rates and to publish them obsessively. Even hospitalisation rates are increasingly misleading as better therapy reduces length of stay. Covid is now a long way from being an important cause of mortality".

- UK (England in reality) opening 19th July no matter what. Time to learn to live with Covid.
Yup agree with that. Case numbers kind of irrelevant at this stage. Open up, keep vaccinating anyone who wants it.
Numbers on ICU should nearly be the only driver at this stage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 01, 2021, 09:10:36 PM
Rapidly increasing case numbers is something  of an experiment. Ireland has a wise approach of standing back for a few weeks and let the Scots and English experiment
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on July 01, 2021, 09:25:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 01, 2021, 09:10:36 PM
Rapidly increasing case numbers is something  of an experiment. Ireland has a wise approach of standing back for a few weeks and let the Scots and English experiment
ROI couldn't take the action that GB is currently taking due to the tardiness of their Vaccine rollout.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on July 01, 2021, 09:26:49 PM
1700 allowed into the Athletic grounds on Sunday, that's disappointing tbh
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on July 01, 2021, 10:15:05 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 01, 2021, 09:25:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 01, 2021, 09:10:36 PM
Rapidly increasing case numbers is something  of an experiment. Ireland has a wise approach of standing back for a few weeks and let the Scots and English experiment
ROI couldn't take the action that GB is currently taking due to the tardiness of their Vaccine rollout.

Have more or less the same vaccines administered now as the England had for their May opening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 01, 2021, 10:41:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 01, 2021, 09:10:36 PM
Rapidly increasing case numbers is something  of an experiment. Ireland has a wise approach of standing back for a few weeks and let the Scots and English experiment

You might be able to get back to making comparisons again.  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 01, 2021, 11:20:23 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 01, 2021, 10:41:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 01, 2021, 09:10:36 PM
Rapidly increasing case numbers is something  of an experiment. Ireland has a wise approach of standing back for a few weeks and let the Scots and English experiment

You might be able to get back to making comparisons again.  ;D

Scotland is the worst place in Europe, not much scope for comparison.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 01, 2021, 11:54:21 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 01, 2021, 11:20:23 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 01, 2021, 10:41:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 01, 2021, 09:10:36 PM
Rapidly increasing case numbers is something  of an experiment. Ireland has a wise approach of standing back for a few weeks and let the Scots and English experiment

You might be able to get back to making comparisons again.  ;D

Scotland is the worst place in Europe, not much scope for comparison.
ROI had the worst rates in the world back in Jan. but the comparisons dried up then.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 02, 2021, 12:10:23 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 01, 2021, 11:54:21 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 01, 2021, 11:20:23 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 01, 2021, 10:41:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 01, 2021, 09:10:36 PM
Rapidly increasing case numbers is something  of an experiment. Ireland has a wise approach of standing back for a few weeks and let the Scots and English experiment

You might be able to get back to making comparisons again.  ;D

Scotland is the worst place in Europe, not much scope for comparison.
ROI had the worst rates in the world back in Jan. but the comparisons dried up then.

Indeed, that is what happens when you open pubs at a time of a new variant.
And the "worst rate in the world" is a function of actually measuring it, which places with the real worst rates did not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 02, 2021, 07:43:14 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on July 01, 2021, 05:59:55 PM
Numbers on ICU should nearly be the only driver at this stage.

Kinda sorta.

They are several weeks lagging any decision - so by the time ICU numbers are a concern, its already too late.

Of course, as you say - the proportion of people who have the virus going to hospital are lower, and the proportion of those that end up in ICU is also lower than it was.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 02, 2021, 09:26:26 AM
18 to 34 year olds can get Jansen in pharmacies from Monday in the 26.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 02, 2021, 10:06:35 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 02, 2021, 09:26:26 AM
18 to 34 year olds can get Jansen in pharmacies from Monday in the 26.
Great stuff, it's one shot only isn't it? I wonder why it isn't be used in the North yet
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on July 02, 2021, 10:47:01 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 02, 2021, 07:43:14 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on July 01, 2021, 05:59:55 PM
Numbers on ICU should nearly be the only driver at this stage.

Kinda sorta.

They are several weeks lagging any decision - so by the time ICU numbers are a concern, its already too late.

Of course, as you say - the proportion of people who have the virus going to hospital are lower, and the proportion of those that end up in ICU is also lower than it was.

Have the brits underestimated the delta variant or our bucks gone bat crazy with caution.

The narrative is so different . 26 county buckeeens making delta sound like armageddon where as brits are like in lay mans terms it wont put a serious dent in hospital numbers nor deaths
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 02, 2021, 11:16:07 AM
Time will tell as always.
Scottish Hospital figures by mid July will let us know.
WHO blaming money grabbing Soccer tourney for the spread of Delta in Europe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on July 02, 2021, 01:06:07 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on July 02, 2021, 10:47:01 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 02, 2021, 07:43:14 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on July 01, 2021, 05:59:55 PM
Numbers on ICU should nearly be the only driver at this stage.

Kinda sorta.

They are several weeks lagging any decision - so by the time ICU numbers are a concern, its already too late.

Of course, as you say - the proportion of people who have the virus going to hospital are lower, and the proportion of those that end up in ICU is also lower than it was.

Have the brits underestimated the delta variant or our bucks gone bat crazy with caution.

The narrative is so different . 26 county buckeeens making delta sound like armageddon where as brits are like in lay mans terms it wont put a serious dent in hospital numbers nor deaths
That's largely because of the different stages of advancement with the Vaccine rollout.

ROI caution is very understandable, but they're likely to face a shitstorm anyway as whatever happens in the North will spill over - while Vaccination numbers are very high in NI, the infection numbers are escalating and cross border social activity is through the roof.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on July 02, 2021, 01:12:48 PM
are you sure brits are that far ahead in vaccine rollout , seem to have made up a lot of ground last time i checked
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on July 02, 2021, 01:20:00 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on July 02, 2021, 01:12:48 PM
are you sure brits are that far ahead in vaccine rollout , seem to have made up a lot of ground last time i checked
My son of 20 years of age (north of the border) was vaccinated at the same time as my brother of 43 years of age (south of the border) if that's anything to go by.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on July 02, 2021, 01:22:44 PM
47% of population are fully vaccinated in 26, what percentage is uk at ? im not saying youre wrong , i just dont know
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on July 02, 2021, 01:23:42 PM
Something like 62% of the UK adult population fully vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on July 02, 2021, 01:28:45 PM
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=GBR

I'm sure there's many variations with different organisations, data there when you compare UK / ROI

Uk 66% (49% fully)
ROI  42% (20% fully).

Seems low maybe the HSE data breach has effected data.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on July 02, 2021, 01:37:37 PM
Nearly sure it's over 80% single dose in the UK with 60%+ fully vaccinated.  They give this data out each evening on the BBC news. In fairness those figures are percentages of the ADULT population.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on July 02, 2021, 01:43:57 PM
Yeah, 85.2% 1st dose, 62.7% 2nd dose (adults) according to https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 02, 2021, 02:56:58 PM
Adult population is the best vaccine stats to give out as adults more than children are affected by this virus.

Not sure if it's the same in the UK but the majority of our over 70s are now fully vaccinated and that  was the age group that mostly died from this virus since March 2020. Doesn't look like NPHET factored that into their latest modelling though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on July 02, 2021, 03:36:57 PM
Froot shoots..................
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on July 02, 2021, 03:38:16 PM
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/watch-ni-radio-reporter-shows-how-fruit-shoots-can-change-covid-tests-from-negative-to-positive-40603574.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 02, 2021, 03:39:12 PM
Ireland buying one million doses from Romania. 
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0702/1232726-vaccine-romania-purchase/

That is definitely good news as it will allow the whole adult vaccination get done before universities etc take in students in September.
Apparently they are shopping around for a some other consignments.
Iceland ramped up its vaccination in mid April and is now more or less done, the same could be done here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 02, 2021, 04:01:43 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 02, 2021, 01:43:57 PM
Yeah, 85.2% 1st dose, 62.7% 2nd dose (adults) according to https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk
I think we were 65/45 on 29th June.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 02, 2021, 04:33:40 PM
This chart is of the population, rather than the adult population

(https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=557385&stc=1&d=1625237859)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on July 02, 2021, 05:05:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 02, 2021, 04:33:40 PM
This chart is of the population, rather than the adult population

(https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=557385&stc=1&d=1625237859)

Ireland is blue and France is green in the legend, ffs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 02, 2021, 07:26:54 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on July 02, 2021, 05:05:00 PM
Ireland is blue and France is green in the legend, ffs

In this it is pretty much a draw, so it doesn't make much difference.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on July 02, 2021, 08:28:49 PM

https://twitter.com/markdavyd/status/1410803538901573633?s=19

I wish I knew how to post an image as that image is very important
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 02, 2021, 08:50:21 PM
There you are.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5QuVgZXoAIZklP?format=jpg&name=medium)

The important thing about this chart is the rapidly rising nature of the third wave. The lower number of hospitalisations makes the present situation tolerable, but the rapidly rising nature means that you could have many more cases. The problem is that if the virus is widespread and there are loads of contacts then some older people will get it also. The vaccines are great and 90% effective, but if you allow Covid everywhere then some of the 10% have problems, maybe not serious problems but some healthcare staff will start having to isolate etc, leaving staff shortages.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on July 02, 2021, 10:40:45 PM
Ewan MacKenna is claiming on Twitter to have photos of a senior NPHET member, doing who knows what.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 02, 2021, 11:16:01 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 02, 2021, 10:40:45 PM
Ewan MacKenna is claiming on Twitter to have photos of a senior NPHET member, doing who knows what.

Oh dear, was he standing beside someone?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 02, 2021, 11:23:32 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on July 02, 2021, 03:38:16 PM
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/watch-ni-radio-reporter-shows-how-fruit-shoots-can-change-covid-tests-from-negative-to-positive-40603574.html

Lateral flow tests aren't worth two fiddler's fukks.

They literally are worse than useless.

People change their behaviour if they have a negative result. No doubt about that. Introduce a ridiculous number of false negatives from these fukking things....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 02, 2021, 11:27:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 02, 2021, 08:50:21 PM
The important thing about this chart is the rapidly rising nature of the third wave.

The most important thing is the vast pool of people that have the virus. More virus = more chance to mutate nearer to vaccine escape.

Take Delta - if it mutates its binding mechanism and all of a sudden the vaccines that target the spike protein are useless.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on July 03, 2021, 06:58:55 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 02, 2021, 11:27:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 02, 2021, 08:50:21 PM
The important thing about this chart is the rapidly rising nature of the third wave.

The most important thing is the vast pool of people that have the virus. More virus = more chance to mutate nearer to vaccine escape.

Take Delta - if it mutates its binding mechanism and all of a sudden the vaccines that target the spike protein are useless.....

Tell me. Are you advocating that we stay in lockdown indefinitely?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 03, 2021, 08:05:29 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 02, 2021, 11:27:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 02, 2021, 08:50:21 PM
The important thing about this chart is the rapidly rising nature of the third wave.

The most important thing is the vast pool of people that have the virus. More virus = more chance to mutate nearer to vaccine escape.

Take Delta - if it mutates its binding mechanism and all of a sudden the vaccines that target the spike protein are useless.....
Good luck trying to spin that one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 03, 2021, 09:11:11 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 03, 2021, 06:58:55 AM
Tell me. Are you advocating that we stay in lockdown indefinitely?

Nope. I'm advocating international travel is binned for the foreseeable.

Hopefully Delta doesn't mutate its way out - but with our govt (and others around the world) being so f**king slow and stupid to react to emerging variants, its only a matter of time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on July 03, 2021, 10:02:01 AM
They should stopped flying last Yr, and even now, but too much money involved that be lost, but if we done that, I don't think this rolling lockdown scenario would have happened. We a small island with a revelantly small population but as many country who haven't got our physical barriers, we dropped the ball. And no all I see is indecision.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 03, 2021, 10:15:04 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 03, 2021, 09:11:11 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 03, 2021, 06:58:55 AM
Tell me. Are you advocating that we stay in lockdown indefinitely?

Nope. I'm advocating international travel is binned for the foreseeable.

Hopefully Delta doesn't mutate its way out - but with our govt (and others around the world) being so f**king slow and stupid to react to emerging variants, its only a matter of time.

That ship sailed (or plane took off) long ago. I myself was calling for this in March 2020 and it seemed to quieten down, if only Stormont had banned flights over the Xmas from GB I don't think the second wave here would have been so severe.

I suppose there is still time for this, but with people on twitter booking trips to Spain and Portugal it's not going to happen unfortunately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 03, 2021, 10:24:09 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 03, 2021, 09:11:11 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 03, 2021, 06:58:55 AM
Tell me. Are you advocating that we stay in lockdown indefinitely?

Nope. I'm advocating international travel is binned for the foreseeable.

Hopefully Delta doesn't mutate its way out - but with our govt (and others around the world) being so f**king slow and stupid to react to emerging variants, its only a matter of time.

It will be. Unless you've plenty of money and plenty of time to quarantine. It is the peasants who go to Amsterdam for stags or Majorca for a holiday that needed curtailing. And it will be curtailed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 03, 2021, 10:45:26 AM
With at least 4,000,000,000 people unvaccinated it will have to be.
Unless there's a greedy soccer tourney of course.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on July 03, 2021, 10:47:39 AM
As per Paul Reid in the HSE.

Almost 4.3M vaccines administered. Over 2.56M adults partially vaccinated (68%) & over 1.8M (48%) fully vaccinated. Over 55,000 administered on each of the last 4 days, & over 272,000 so far this week.

The UK had 27k cases yesterday and 27 deaths, when they had 27k daily cases in January they had over 1k deaths. Safe to say the vaccines are making a big difference on this delta variant.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 03, 2021, 09:35:22 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 03, 2021, 10:47:39 AM
The UK had 27k cases yesterday and 27 deaths, when they had 27k daily cases in January they had over 1k deaths. Safe to say the vaccines are making a big difference on this delta variant.

There will not be so many deaths now, but it isn't valid to compare today's cases with today's deaths, people don't die for several weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on July 03, 2021, 10:34:48 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 03, 2021, 09:35:22 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 03, 2021, 10:47:39 AM
The UK had 27k cases yesterday and 27 deaths, when they had 27k daily cases in January they had over 1k deaths. Safe to say the vaccines are making a big difference on this delta variant.

There will not be so many deaths now, but it isn't valid to compare today's cases with today's deaths, people don't die for several weeks.

Delta variant arrived in the UK in May and became the dominant strain in early June. The high death count in the UK and Ireland at the start of this year was the result of the lack people vaccinated.

Case fatality rate for Delta (0.3%) at this time appears to be lower than Alpha (2%) as per Cillian De Gascun.

That shows a lot of the highest risk people are now vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 04, 2021, 09:54:42 AM
Don't throw away that mask just yet.

The Lambda variant is here  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 04, 2021, 04:00:20 PM
ROI weekly update. Case count rising how much that is to do with troublesome clusters or Delta variant is hard to know. For now thankfully the hospital situation remains very stable.

Cases 3078 (685 more than last week)
In hospital 48 ( 1 more than last week)
In ICU 14 ( 1 fewer than a week ago)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 04, 2021, 05:02:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 04, 2021, 09:54:42 AM
Don't throw away that mask just yet.

The Lambda variant is here  ::)

'They' (the cabal) are gonna run out of names for all these made up variants. We could have the John-Joe variant before the summer is out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on July 04, 2021, 10:56:09 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 04, 2021, 05:02:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 04, 2021, 09:54:42 AM
Don't throw away that mask just yet.

The Lambda variant is here  ::)

'They' (the cabal) are gonna run out of names for all these made up variants. We could have the John-Joe variant before the summer is out

No shit.

Was talking to an Fella in NY today, trying to explain what is happening in Ireland with respect to the reopening. He had so many reasonable questions that I could not answer, that I just had to change the subject.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 05, 2021, 05:58:33 PM
Boris five point plan to live with Covid and return to normal.

https://mobile.twitter.com/rtenews/status/1412082604384342018?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 05, 2021, 06:09:24 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 05, 2021, 05:58:33 PM
Boris five point plan to live with Covid and return to normal.

https://mobile.twitter.com/rtenews/status/1412082604384342018?
Fair play to him, cant disagree with any of that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HP on July 05, 2021, 06:27:22 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 05, 2021, 06:09:24 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 05, 2021, 05:58:33 PM
Boris five point plan to live with Covid and return to normal.

https://mobile.twitter.com/rtenews/status/1412082604384342018?
Fair play to him, cant disagree with any of that

Totally agree though I am sure the experts and unions will be queueing up with concerns, they won't want to relinquish their moment in the spotlight anytime soon, new waves, variants, outlandish death projections, scare, scare, scare. Vaccination was the way out though some in the scientific community would want us to stay locked up indefinitely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on July 05, 2021, 06:30:59 PM
Never thought I'd ever say this but well done Boris.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 05, 2021, 06:38:39 PM
Quote from: clarshack on July 05, 2021, 06:30:59 PM
Never thought I'd ever say this but well done Boris.
Yep. Although wouldn't have minded keeping mask wearing on likes of public transport.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on July 05, 2021, 09:49:33 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 06:27:22 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 05, 2021, 06:09:24 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 05, 2021, 05:58:33 PM
Boris five point plan to live with Covid and return to normal.

https://mobile.twitter.com/rtenews/status/1412082604384342018?
Fair play to him, cant disagree with any of that

Totally agree though I am sure the experts and unions will be queueing up with concerns, they won't want to relinquish their moment in the spotlight anytime soon, new waves, variants, outlandish death projections, scare, scare, scare. Vaccination was the way out though some in the scientific community would want us to stay locked up indefinitely.
Who exactly are these people in the scientific community who "want us to stay locked up indefinitely"?

And what is their motive?

Are they just doing it for kicks?

Bear in mind now that nobody is actually locked up

Your thinking on this sounds extremely conspiratorial
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HP on July 05, 2021, 10:49:28 PM
They are all over the news since the announcement, their motives who knows, self serving moment in the limelight, why wouldn't society open now, when would you fully remove restrictions? Masks are a joke, why would you wear a mask getting milk but not hammered in a nightclub?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 05, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
Yeah, what could go wrong in nightclub
https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/at-least-180test-positive-for-covid-after-attending-dutch-nightclub-that-required-negative-test-40618307.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HP on July 05, 2021, 10:55:41 PM
And what may as well say 180 get flu, when would you open up fully?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HP on July 05, 2021, 10:57:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 05, 2021, 10:54:04 PM
Yeah, what could go wrong in nightclub
https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/at-least-180test-positive-for-covid-after-attending-dutch-nightclub-that-required-negative-test-40618307.html

In too old for a nightclub, what could go wrong getting my milk, maskless?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on July 05, 2021, 10:58:46 PM
Kingston Mills was speaking about the Uk approach a while ago, maybe it will backfire, maybe not
https://twitter.com/i/status/1412160506501160961
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:02:10 PM
Maybe they should stop publishing data infection cases and let folk get on with living, haven't seen BBC report cancer cases daily, suicides, sexual or physical domestic abuse, job loses etc. what happened to vaccination being way out?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on July 05, 2021, 11:03:18 PM
Why do you believe people who like to wear masks would ever return to nightclubs? It's just a choice some will go for and some won't. We are long enough down the road that people should have a much better appreciation of the risk to their lives and act accordingly. Take personal responsibility and accept what comes your way, what more can you expect?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 05, 2021, 11:04:03 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:02:10 PM
Maybe they should stop publishing data infection cases and let folk get on with living, haven't seen BBC report cancer cases daily, suicides, sexual or physical domestic abuse, job loses etc. what happened to vaccination being way out?

Vaccination is the way out. It is not finished on 19 July.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on July 05, 2021, 11:04:52 PM
This HP gentleman seems familiar
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 05, 2021, 11:05:35 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 05, 2021, 05:58:33 PM
Boris five point plan to live with Covid and return to normal.

https://mobile.twitter.com/rtenews/status/1412082604384342018?

Madness.

The sensible approach would have been to wait 2 more weeks to see how the current surge in cases is reflected in ICU and in death rate. Hospitalisations don't match the case surge, we know that - but they are still rising fast.

Now, the clown has made any climbdown politically impossible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:06:17 PM
Quote from: Last Man on July 05, 2021, 11:03:18 PM
Why do you believe people who like to wear masks would ever return to nightclubs? It's just a choice some will go for and some won't. We are long enough down the road that people should have a much better appreciation of the risk to their lives and act accordingly. Take personal responsibility and accept what comes your way, what more can you expect?

A post to be applauded.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2021, 11:07:04 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:02:10 PM
Maybe they should stop publishing data infection cases and let folk get on with living, haven't seen BBC report cancer cases daily, suicides, sexual or physical domestic abuse, job loses etc. what happened to vaccination being way out?

Been living now nearly 50 years,  I don't think we stopped living in the last 18 months
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:07:45 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 05, 2021, 11:04:03 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:02:10 PM
Maybe they should stop publishing data infection cases and let folk get on with living, haven't seen BBC report cancer cases daily, suicides, sexual or physical domestic abuse, job loses etc. what happened to vaccination being way out?

Vaccination is the way out. It is not finished on 19 July.

Do you want 100 per cent? Ain't going happen, what percentage in your professional capacity do you want before doing away with restrictions?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 05, 2021, 11:08:18 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:02:10 PM
Maybe they should stop publishing data infection cases and let folk get on with living, haven't seen BBC report cancer cases daily, suicides, sexual or physical domestic abuse, job loses etc. what happened to vaccination being way out?

Once again for the thickos out there....

... the more people have it - the more chance of a mutation that escapes the vaccines.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:10:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2021, 11:07:04 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:02:10 PM
Maybe they should stop publishing data infection cases and let folk get on with living, haven't seen BBC report cancer cases daily, suicides, sexual or physical domestic abuse, job loses etc. what happened to vaccination being way out?

Been living now nearly 50 years,  I don't think we stopped living in the last 18 months

Tell that to those abused during lockdown, committed suicide during lockdown, lost their livelihoods during lockdown, missed cancer diagnosis during lockdown so much for us all being in it together!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:11:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 05, 2021, 11:08:18 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:02:10 PM
Maybe they should stop publishing data infection cases and let folk get on with living, haven't seen BBC report cancer cases daily, suicides, sexual or physical domestic abuse, job loses etc. what happened to vaccination being way out?

Once again for the thickos out there....

... the more people have it - the more chance of a mutation that escapes the vaccines.

Tell us all, when would you open up?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:12:34 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 05, 2021, 11:05:35 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 05, 2021, 05:58:33 PM
Boris five point plan to live with Covid and return to normal.

https://mobile.twitter.com/rtenews/status/1412082604384342018?

Madness.

The sensible approach would have been to wait 2 more weeks to see how the current surge in cases is reflected in ICU and in death rate. Hospitalisations don't match the case surge, we know that - but they are still rising fast.

Now, the clown has made any climbdown politically impossible.

And in 2 weeks wait another 2 weeks blah blah blah.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 05, 2021, 11:17:27 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:11:19 PM
Tell us all, when would you open up?

When:

1. International travel is banned.
2. Current case numbers are under control.

International travel should have been binned in March 2020. It was f**king utterly ludicrous at the time that headteachers were individually having to decide whether to cancel school ski trips to Northern Italy.

I've said it many times - if they'd cancelled all international travel early enough - then they could have more or less avoided locking down the internal economy.

Was that lesson learned? Was it f**k. Here we are well over a year later and the damn thing can make its way across the world as quick as a airliner can fly it.




International travel will have to remain parked up until such time as the vast majority of the world has been vaccinated - and the vaccination process has developed to the point responses to C-19 variants is fast and in large volumes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:20:29 PM
Elaborate on 2 please.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 05, 2021, 11:23:31 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:12:34 PM
And in 2 weeks wait another 2 weeks blah blah blah.

Hardly.

The numbers in hospital (beds occupied) have doubled in the past 22 days.

Unfortunately, the numbers on ventilation reflect the same trend. Doubled in past 22 days.


We'd want to be very sure that will start to plateau before committing to essentially unrestricted spread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 05, 2021, 11:24:16 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:20:29 PM
Elaborate on 2 please.

Why?

Its not as if it isn't obvious who you are.

You couldn't comprehend nuances 6 months ago, why would you do any better now|?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2021, 11:24:33 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:10:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2021, 11:07:04 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:02:10 PM
Maybe they should stop publishing data infection cases and let folk get on with living, haven't seen BBC report cancer cases daily, suicides, sexual or physical domestic abuse, job loses etc. what happened to vaccination being way out?

Been living now nearly 50 years,  I don't think we stopped living in the last 18 months

Tell that to those abused during lockdown, committed suicide during lockdown, lost their livelihoods during lockdown, missed cancer diagnosis during lockdown so much for us all being in it together!

Do you actually give a feck about these things before lockdown or has it been something you've seen and jumped on?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:25:06 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 05, 2021, 11:24:16 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:20:29 PM
Elaborate on 2 please.

Why?

Its not as if it isn't obvious who you are.

You couldn't comprehend nuances 6 months ago, why would you do any better now|?

So you can't or won't , why not?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:25:45 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 05, 2021, 11:23:31 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:12:34 PM
And in 2 weeks wait another 2 weeks blah blah blah.

Hardly.

The numbers in hospital (beds occupied) have doubled in the past 22 days.

Unfortunately, the numbers on ventilation reflect the same trend. Doubled in past 22 days.


We'd want to be very sure that will start to plateau before committing to essentially unrestricted spread.

And other medical conditions?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2021, 11:25:56 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:25:06 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 05, 2021, 11:24:16 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:20:29 PM
Elaborate on 2 please.

Why?

Its not as if it isn't obvious who you are.

You couldn't comprehend nuances 6 months ago, why would you do any better now|?

So you can't or won't , why not?

I think Nadal is a busted flush
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:26:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2021, 11:24:33 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:10:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2021, 11:07:04 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:02:10 PM
Maybe they should stop publishing data infection cases and let folk get on with living, haven't seen BBC report cancer cases daily, suicides, sexual or physical domestic abuse, job loses etc. what happened to vaccination being way out?

Been living now nearly 50 years,  I don't think we stopped living in the last 18 months

Tell that to those abused during lockdown, committed suicide during lockdown, lost their livelihoods during lockdown, missed cancer diagnosis during lockdown so much for us all being in it together!

Do you actually give a feck about these things before lockdown or has it been something you've seen and jumped on?

You appear to not give a feck, before or after, you seem to be OK, good for you lad,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2021, 11:29:49 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:26:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2021, 11:24:33 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:10:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2021, 11:07:04 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:02:10 PM
Maybe they should stop publishing data infection cases and let folk get on with living, haven't seen BBC report cancer cases daily, suicides, sexual or physical domestic abuse, job loses etc. what happened to vaccination being way out?

Been living now nearly 50 years,  I don't think we stopped living in the last 18 months

Tell that to those abused during lockdown, committed suicide during lockdown, lost their livelihoods during lockdown, missed cancer diagnosis during lockdown so much for us all being in it together!

Do you actually give a feck about these things before lockdown or has it been something you've seen and jumped on?

You appear to not give a feck, before or after, you seem to be OK, good for you lad,

We've had these discussions with you for so long. You don't give a shit

Now your back the mask will slip and you'll be booted out again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:37:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2021, 11:29:49 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:26:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2021, 11:24:33 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:10:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 05, 2021, 11:07:04 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:02:10 PM
Maybe they should stop publishing data infection cases and let folk get on with living, haven't seen BBC report cancer cases daily, suicides, sexual or physical domestic abuse, job loses etc. what happened to vaccination being way out?

Been living now nearly 50 years,  I don't think we stopped living in the last 18 months

Tell that to those abused during lockdown, committed suicide during lockdown, lost their livelihoods during lockdown, missed cancer diagnosis during lockdown so much for us all being in it together!

Do you actually give a feck about these things before lockdown or has it been something you've seen and jumped on?

You appear to not give a feck, before or after, you seem to be OK, good for you lad,

We've had these discussions with you for so long. You don't give a shit

Now your back the mask will slip and you'll be booted out again.

As the main mod on this board what criteria would you have to drop restrictions? You can boot anyone out whenever you want who cares.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 05, 2021, 11:47:47 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:10:24 PM
Tell that to those abused during lockdown, committed suicide during lockdown, lost their livelihoods during lockdown, missed cancer diagnosis during lockdown so much for us all being in it together!

Here we go again with the missed cancer diagnosis, a sure sign of a wind up. Missed cancer diagnoses were caused by pressure on the health service caused by Covid, in no way can any measure that spreads Covid help cancer patients and anyone saying it does is a clear sign that that they are not attempting a serious argument.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HP on July 06, 2021, 06:38:53 AM
Even the doom merchants at the beeb are coming to a realisation, live with it, if you want to hide away under your duvet go for it, let everyone else get on with their lives.  
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57678942 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57678942)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HP on July 06, 2021, 07:04:44 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 05, 2021, 11:47:47 PM
Quote from: HP on July 05, 2021, 11:10:24 PM
Tell that to those abused during lockdown, committed suicide during lockdown, lost their livelihoods during lockdown, missed cancer diagnosis during lockdown so much for us all being in it together!

Here we go again with the missed cancer diagnosis, a sure sign of a wind up. Missed cancer diagnoses were caused by pressure on the health service caused by Covid, in no way can any measure that spreads Covid help cancer patients and anyone saying it does is a clear sign that that they are not attempting a serious argument.

Flu alone killed more than 20,000 people in England in the winter of 2017-18. There was no talk of the need to introduce restrictions or curtail freedoms then.

Did all cancer diagnoses cease during this period?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 06, 2021, 07:13:15 AM
Jesus! You're not even trying to hide properly!!

Flu, well we've made up for the deaths of 2018 by none this year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never beat the deeler on July 06, 2021, 08:52:05 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 06, 2021, 07:13:15 AM
Jesus! You're not even trying to hide properly!!

Flu, well we've made up for the deaths of 2018 by none this year.

hide properly

Hide Properly

H___ P_______

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/021/464/14608107_1180665285312703_1558693314_n.jpg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 06, 2021, 10:25:58 AM
f**k me.

MODS!!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 06, 2021, 10:31:19 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 05, 2021, 11:05:35 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 05, 2021, 05:58:33 PM
Boris five point plan to live with Covid and return to normal.

https://mobile.twitter.com/rtenews/status/1412082604384342018?

Madness.

The sensible approach would have been to wait 2 more weeks to see how the current surge in cases is reflected in ICU and in death rate. Hospitalisations don't match the case surge, we know that - but they are still rising fast.

Now, the clown has made any climbdown politically impossible.

Does this Johnson stuff only apply to England?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on July 06, 2021, 10:56:44 AM
Johnson lost a by election and is looking to get the public back on side but more importantly with his new Health minister very corporate driven, they looking to get big business open and running as normal.

The mask wearing and directive on that is very divisive and will be a huge issue. Like Brexit again - for and against. Was no reason why it couldn't have been kept for a number of weeks/month on public transport etc.

Wearing a mask isn't really that hard.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 06, 2021, 11:00:51 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 06, 2021, 10:31:19 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 05, 2021, 11:05:35 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 05, 2021, 05:58:33 PM
Boris five point plan to live with Covid and return to normal.

https://mobile.twitter.com/rtenews/status/1412082604384342018?

Madness.

The sensible approach would have been to wait 2 more weeks to see how the current surge in cases is reflected in ICU and in death rate. Hospitalisations don't match the case surge, we know that - but they are still rising fast.

Now, the clown has made any climbdown politically impossible.

Does this Johnson stuff only apply to England?

At the moment, yes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 06, 2021, 11:30:00 AM
Quote from: Louther on July 06, 2021, 10:56:44 AM
Johnson lost a by election and is looking to get the public back on side but more importantly with his new Health minister very corporate driven, they looking to get big business open and running as normal.

The mask wearing and directive on that is very divisive and will be a huge issue. Like Brexit again - for and against. Was no reason why it couldn't have been kept for a number of weeks/month on public transport etc.

Wearing a mask isn't really that hard.

Johnson is instinctually reckless. He could easily have said that 90% of things would open on 19 July and that the remaining 10% would end a few weeks later, this was pretty much what rational people were expecting. Even that 10% of measures could have moderated the spread of Delta, and while not too many people will die, a lot of people could have been saved from hospitalisation and debilitating long Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 06, 2021, 11:39:22 AM
I'm a bit torn with the whole thing. I don't really understand the whole mask issue. If I am popping to the shops, I just put it on. It's no big hassle honestly. But I am all for getting things back to normal were possible. The figures that they need to keep an eye on is hospital admissions. If they rise significantly then all bets are off.
Johnston has put everything on the Vaccine. Let's hope he's right.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on July 06, 2021, 11:46:05 AM
Quote from: Louther on July 06, 2021, 10:56:44 AM
Johnson lost a by election and is looking to get the public back on side but more importantly with his new Health minister very corporate driven, they looking to get big business open and running as normal.

The mask wearing and directive on that is very divisive and will be a huge issue. Like Brexit again - for and against. Was no reason why it couldn't have been kept for a number of weeks/month on public transport etc.

Wearing a mask isn't really that hard.
The best comment I heard on the mask issue was from Dr Tom Black at the weekend.  He said his older patients didn't get old by being stupid, they got old by being smart and that he thought that most sensible people will continue to wear masks in certain circumstances in any case.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 06, 2021, 11:51:26 AM
Quote from: mackers on July 06, 2021, 11:46:05 AM
The best comment I heard on the mask issue was from Dr Tom Black at the weekend.  He said his older patients didn't get old by being stupid, they got old by being smart and that he thought that most sensible people will continue to wear masks in certain circumstances in any case.

That is fine, but the benefit of the mask is not only or mostly to the mask wearer but to the other people around. The young people, who are not vaccinated and many of whom will have Covid, will not be wearing masks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on July 06, 2021, 12:09:16 PM
Quote from: mackers on July 06, 2021, 11:46:05 AM
Quote from: Louther on July 06, 2021, 10:56:44 AM
Johnson lost a by election and is looking to get the public back on side but more importantly with his new Health minister very corporate driven, they looking to get big business open and running as normal.

The mask wearing and directive on that is very divisive and will be a huge issue. Like Brexit again - for and against. Was no reason why it couldn't have been kept for a number of weeks/month on public transport etc.

Wearing a mask isn't really that hard.
The best comment I heard on the mask issue was from Dr Tom Black at the weekend.  He said his older patients didn't get old by being stupid, they got old by being smart and that he thought that most sensible people will continue to wear masks in certain circumstances in any case.

True enough alright.

Generally plenty of people will show logic, others will take pleasure in not doing what advised and ensure everyone knows about it. They happy to let others do the "lifting" for them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 06, 2021, 12:56:24 PM
Quote from: Louther on July 06, 2021, 10:56:44 AM
Johnson lost a by election and is looking to get the public back on side but more importantly with his new Health minister very corporate driven, they looking to get big business open and running as normal.

The mask wearing and directive on that is very divisive and will be a huge issue. Like Brexit again - for and against. Was no reason why it couldn't have been kept for a number of weeks/month on public transport etc.

Wearing a mask isn't really that hard.
True the mask thing is probably the only issue a reasonable person could have with the announcement. But then again if you're double jabbed it'd shouldn't matter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 06, 2021, 01:08:34 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 06, 2021, 11:39:22 AM
I'm a bit torn with the whole thing. I don't really understand the whole mask issue. If I am popping to the shops, I just put it on. It's no big hassle honestly. But I am all for getting things back to normal were possible. The figures that they need to keep an eye on is hospital admissions. If they rise significantly then all bets are off.
Johnston has put everything on the Vaccine. Let's hope he's right.

Other than shops and public transport I don't see the need for masks. I see plenty driving around alone wearing mask not sure what is going on there?

Boris is putting all his eggs in one basket and some contrast from the ROI approach to things. As you say let's hope he's right.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 06, 2021, 01:50:43 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/05/boris-johnson-announcement-lockdown-easing-restrictions-july/
the Prime Minister has stressed that this is not the end of the pandemic - but it is the end of legal limits and the return of personal responsibility.

UK numbers are still going up. 5k mid June to 27k yesterday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on July 06, 2021, 02:04:16 PM
Leo Varadkar today.

QuoteI'd warn against any "spiral of fear" because vaccines offers such protection

"I want to reassure people, you will see cases rise dramatically over the next few weeks, but it's not the same as it was back in the Alpha wave or last year... the Delta wave will be different, let's avoid a cycle of fear"

I'm not predicting any specific case number, but in principle cases could increase dramatically without an increase of similar scale on hospitalisations

I'd say the fear will be hard to dislodge with the manner that the Irish media cover this virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 06, 2021, 02:07:47 PM
Basically it's created two thoughts on it - this is real and you should be shit scared of it or the other extreme of this shit again.

Boris will now just blame people if it goes wrong this time. Watch this space. It's already been done by him. If it's a success he will take all responsibility for it and if it it fails he will take none. The thing is - no matter what he will get away with it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 06, 2021, 02:50:34 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 06, 2021, 12:56:24 PM
Quote from: Louther on July 06, 2021, 10:56:44 AM
Johnson lost a by election and is looking to get the public back on side but more importantly with his new Health minister very corporate driven, they looking to get big business open and running as normal.

The mask wearing and directive on that is very divisive and will be a huge issue. Like Brexit again - for and against. Was no reason why it couldn't have been kept for a number of weeks/month on public transport etc.

Wearing a mask isn't really that hard.
True the mask thing is probably the only issue a reasonable person could have with the announcement. But then again if you're double jabbed it'd shouldn't matter.

What percentage of people are now fully vaccinated??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 06, 2021, 03:04:22 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 06, 2021, 02:50:34 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 06, 2021, 12:56:24 PM
Quote from: Louther on July 06, 2021, 10:56:44 AM
Johnson lost a by election and is looking to get the public back on side but more importantly with his new Health minister very corporate driven, they looking to get big business open and running as normal.

The mask wearing and directive on that is very divisive and will be a huge issue. Like Brexit again - for and against. Was no reason why it couldn't have been kept for a number of weeks/month on public transport etc.

Wearing a mask isn't really that hard.
True the mask thing is probably the only issue a reasonable person could have with the announcement. But then again if you're double jabbed it'd shouldn't matter.

What percentage of people are now fully vaccinated??
I'm not sure but it is fairly high, 80% plus have had first dose at least.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 06, 2021, 03:35:50 PM
Todays update.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5m8ebUXwAMOQot?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 06, 2021, 04:54:43 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 06, 2021, 03:35:50 PM
Todays update.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5m8ebUXwAMOQot?format=jpg&name=medium)
Good going. North is even further along. Those in charge of the vaccine rollout really have done a superb job.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 06, 2021, 08:55:28 PM
42 cases in Kilkeel seafood
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1412497599387607045
that's a few days off over the 12th.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 06, 2021, 11:08:18 PM
What do people think of the term "anti vaxer". Personally don't like it, it always seems to be used in a very negative almost abusive manner

There are loads out there who aren't anti vaccination but just choose that it's not for them.

14 in my office. Only 6 got vaccinated. Some of the office exchanges getting a bit tense
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 06, 2021, 11:16:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 06, 2021, 11:08:18 PM
There are loads out there who aren't anti vaccination but just choose that it's not for them.

Just like there are loads out there are not anti thread on your tyres but it is not for them? The point is that the rest of us are on the road too.

Once vaccines are available to everyone they need to create a health and safety requirement on employers to ensure that their staff are not unnecessarily exposed to Covid. This wouldn't absolutely prohibit them employing anti vaxxers but it would require them to put them in a different room with separate ventilation and not mix in canteens etc.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on July 06, 2021, 11:17:18 PM
You have to respect people's reasons for not getting it. It might be personal.

For me, it's doing your bit for humanity on the back of scientific expertise. If it doesn't work, well at least you did your bit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 06, 2021, 11:19:56 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 06, 2021, 11:08:18 PM
What do people think of the term "anti vaxer". Personally don't like it, it always seems to be used in a very negative almost abusive manner

There are loads out there who aren't anti vaccination but just choose that it's not for them.

14 in my office. Only 6 got vaccinated. Some of the office exchanges getting a bit tense

This is the problem, you don't take the vaccine just for yourself Fear, you take it for everyone. The world would be a very different place without the vast majority of people taking vaccines.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on July 06, 2021, 11:23:37 PM
What's the Situation down south, are B&B operating?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 06, 2021, 11:50:47 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 06, 2021, 11:17:18 PM
You have to respect people's reasons for not getting it. It might be personal.

Fair enough, but they also have to respect you by not coming into work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 06, 2021, 11:59:43 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 06, 2021, 11:16:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 06, 2021, 11:08:18 PM
There are loads out there who aren't anti vaccination but just choose that it's not for them.

Just like there are loads out there are not anti thread on your tyres but it is not for them? The point is that the rest of us are on the road too.

Once vaccines are available to everyone they need to create a health and safety requirement on employers to ensure that their staff are not unnecessarily exposed to Covid. This wouldn't absolutely prohibit them employing anti vaxxers but it would require them to put them in a different room with separate ventilation and not mix in canteens etc.

Sounds bit mad
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 07, 2021, 12:00:27 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 06, 2021, 11:50:47 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 06, 2021, 11:17:18 PM
You have to respect people's reasons for not getting it. It might be personal.

Fair enough, but they also have to respect you by not coming into work.

Even if you are double jabbed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 07, 2021, 12:04:21 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 06, 2021, 11:19:56 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 06, 2021, 11:08:18 PM
What do people think of the term "anti vaxer". Personally don't like it, it always seems to be used in a very negative almost abusive manner

There are loads out there who aren't anti vaccination but just choose that it's not for them.

14 in my office. Only 6 got vaccinated. Some of the office exchanges getting a bit tense

This is the problem, you don't take the vaccine just for yourself Fear, you take it for everyone. The world would be a very different place without the vast majority of people taking vaccines.

Yes I get that and i got it. The prevailing.argument amongst those that didn't get it is that " all my vulnerable relatives did"

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 07, 2021, 12:07:54 AM
So all my vulnerable adults did so I don't have to? So I'm all right jack?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 07, 2021, 12:18:31 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 07, 2021, 12:07:54 AM
So all my vulnerable adults did so I don't have to? So I'm all right jack?

That's the argument. I think it's more " they are alright Jack" they being the vulnerable
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 07, 2021, 08:40:21 AM
Out of interest do many of you know many people who wouldn't take it?

I know a boy who worked with me, left last week, would be very against it. He is a boy who struggles a lot with mental health and who reads a lot of stuff on the internet which isn't very helpful conspiracy theory wise etc. He won't get one. Any time I see him in public I tell him to wear a bell and then he tells me that I'll be a zombie in 6 months so keep good food in the fridge so he can come down and get it. In all seriousness though it's a society thing now that misinformation etc leads people to be like this and I don't begrudge him for it - I honestly feel a bit for him.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 07, 2021, 08:56:50 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 07, 2021, 08:40:21 AM
Out of interest do many of you know many people who wouldn't take it?

I know a boy who worked with me, left last week, would be very against it. He is a boy who struggles a lot with mental health and who reads a lot of stuff on the internet which isn't very helpful conspiracy theory wise etc. He won't get one. Any time I see him in public I tell him to wear a bell and then he tells me that I'll be a zombie in 6 months so keep good food in the fridge so he can come down and get it. In all seriousness though it's a society thing now that misinformation etc leads people to be like this and I don't begrudge him for it - I honestly feel a bit for him.

Loads in office here

All normal guys and dolls.

One lad very private, mad into fitness, thinks his immune system will do the work(mid 30s)
Other guy, normal lad, gives no reason and just cuts conversation dead when mentioned(40s)
Young lad, uni intern, seems very tuned in and well educated, says doesnt trust it and he is too young to be comcerned(21)
2 girls, keep mentioning having babies(20s)
1 lad, says ah keep meaning to bookit(40s)
1 guy says its poison
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 07, 2021, 09:06:39 AM
I don't know too many - that guy would be the main one. While most here would take it others are jumped on who say they wouldn't. It's really brought out a split in people. I don't think everyone who doesn't want the vaccine suffers from mental health issues btw but I do think in some people's cases there's too much conspiracy stuff on the internet that they believe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 07, 2021, 09:14:10 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 07, 2021, 09:06:39 AM
I don't know too many - that guy would be the main one. While most here would take it others are jumped on who say they wouldn't. It's really brought out a split in people. I don't think everyone who doesn't want the vaccine suffers from mental health issues btw but I do think in some people's cases there's too much conspiracy stuff on the internet that they believe.

Really I havent heard anyone mention conspiracy theory at all, just normal people, nice people too btw
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 07, 2021, 09:14:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 07, 2021, 08:56:50 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 07, 2021, 08:40:21 AM
Out of interest do many of you know many people who wouldn't take it?

I know a boy who worked with me, left last week, would be very against it. He is a boy who struggles a lot with mental health and who reads a lot of stuff on the internet which isn't very helpful conspiracy theory wise etc. He won't get one. Any time I see him in public I tell him to wear a bell and then he tells me that I'll be a zombie in 6 months so keep good food in the fridge so he can come down and get it. In all seriousness though it's a society thing now that misinformation etc leads people to be like this and I don't begrudge him for it - I honestly feel a bit for him.

Loads in office here

All normal guys and dolls.

One lad very private, mad into fitness, thinks his immune system will do the work(mid 30s)
Other guy, normal lad, gives no reason and just cuts conversation dead when mentioned(40s)
Young lad, uni intern, seems very tuned in and well educated, says doesnt trust it and he is too young to be comcerned(21)
2 girls, keep mentioning having babies(20s)
1 lad, says ah keep meaning to bookit(40s)
1 guy says its poison

No surprise then that Derry & Donegal have the highest infection rates on the Island. You can't teach stupid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 07, 2021, 09:23:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 07, 2021, 09:14:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 07, 2021, 08:56:50 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 07, 2021, 08:40:21 AM
Out of interest do many of you know many people who wouldn't take it?

I know a boy who worked with me, left last week, would be very against it. He is a boy who struggles a lot with mental health and who reads a lot of stuff on the internet which isn't very helpful conspiracy theory wise etc. He won't get one. Any time I see him in public I tell him to wear a bell and then he tells me that I'll be a zombie in 6 months so keep good food in the fridge so he can come down and get it. In all seriousness though it's a society thing now that misinformation etc leads people to be like this and I don't begrudge him for it - I honestly feel a bit for him.

Loads in office here

All normal guys and dolls.

One lad very private, mad into fitness, thinks his immune system will do the work(mid 30s)
Other guy, normal lad, gives no reason and just cuts conversation dead when mentioned(40s)
Young lad, uni intern, seems very tuned in and well educated, says doesnt trust it and he is too young to be comcerned(21)
2 girls, keep mentioning having babies(20s)
1 lad, says ah keep meaning to bookit(40s)
1 guy says its poison

No surprise then that Derry & Donegal have the highest infection rates on the Island. You can't teach stupid.

Yeaj and if the chronology of this wave mirrors the last, its coming your way, the young ones love to party, btw none of these people would be in any way stupid, quite the opposite with a few actually
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 07, 2021, 09:28:11 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 07, 2021, 09:14:10 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 07, 2021, 09:06:39 AM
I don't know too many - that guy would be the main one. While most here would take it others are jumped on who say they wouldn't. It's really brought out a split in people. I don't think everyone who doesn't want the vaccine suffers from mental health issues btw but I do think in some people's cases there's too much conspiracy stuff on the internet that they believe.

Really I havent heard anyone mention conspiracy theory at all, just normal people, nice people too btw

Yeah - the above is just my experience. I fully understand younger ones not wanting to get it tbh and don't subscribe to the everyone is stupid who doesn't want to get it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 07, 2021, 09:31:34 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 07, 2021, 09:28:11 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 07, 2021, 09:14:10 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 07, 2021, 09:06:39 AM
I don't know too many - that guy would be the main one. While most here would take it others are jumped on who say they wouldn't. It's really brought out a split in people. I don't think everyone who doesn't want the vaccine suffers from mental health issues btw but I do think in some people's cases there's too much conspiracy stuff on the internet that they believe.

Really I havent heard anyone mention conspiracy theory at all, just normal people, nice people too btw

Yeah - the above is just my experience. I fully understand younger ones not wanting to get it tbh and don't subscribe to the everyone is stupid who doesn't want to get it.

Just gets peoples back up(especially young men) who end up digging their heals in getting called stupid etc
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 07, 2021, 10:09:13 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 07, 2021, 09:31:34 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 07, 2021, 09:28:11 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 07, 2021, 09:14:10 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 07, 2021, 09:06:39 AM
I don't know too many - that guy would be the main one. While most here would take it others are jumped on who say they wouldn't. It's really brought out a split in people. I don't think everyone who doesn't want the vaccine suffers from mental health issues btw but I do think in some people's cases there's too much conspiracy stuff on the internet that they believe.

Really I havent heard anyone mention conspiracy theory at all, just normal people, nice people too btw

Yeah - the above is just my experience. I fully understand younger ones not wanting to get it tbh and don't subscribe to the everyone is stupid who doesn't want to get it.

Just gets peoples back up(especially young men) who end up digging their heals in getting called stupid etc

There's a link between infection rates and the vaccine. Can people not see that? The highest infection rates are highest in Derry / Donegal. This is clearly links with what you are saying about vaccine uptake in the Northwest. People need to wake the f**k up for everyones sake or we'll be staring another lockdown in the face and those that are unvaccinated will be the most vocal about that.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on July 07, 2021, 10:09:30 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 06, 2021, 11:23:37 PM
What's the Situation down south, are B&B operating?
Yes. I've been in a nice hotel in Mayo the past few days, the grim weather defo not helping but generally it's been a bit shit tbh.

There's exponential growth in mullets in young lads by the looks of it as well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 07, 2021, 10:31:57 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 07, 2021, 12:00:27 AM
Even if you are double jabbed

Double jabbed reduces your chances of getting Delta by about 75%, but it isn't an absolute protection. Now the vaccine will also reduce the extent of your illness, but you could still pass it on to someone else, perhaps someone not as well able to deal with it.
Going back to my tyre example, you cannot reasonably say that I don't need to change my tyre because people wear seatbelts and they'll be OK when I crash into them. 

Vaccines greatest contribution to society is not so much in stopping one person getting it, but in reducing transmission generally so that there isn't much around. That doesn't work if you have people acting the maggot and not getting the vaccine. The point is that any inconvenience or risk from getting the vaccine is less than getting disease, people might take a chance that they won't get the disease but now this Delta is going to go around everywhere as it is more transmissible and people are out and about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 07, 2021, 11:27:02 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 07, 2021, 08:56:50 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 07, 2021, 08:40:21 AM
Out of interest do many of you know many people who wouldn't take it?

I know a boy who worked with me, left last week, would be very against it. He is a boy who struggles a lot with mental health and who reads a lot of stuff on the internet which isn't very helpful conspiracy theory wise etc. He won't get one. Any time I see him in public I tell him to wear a bell and then he tells me that I'll be a zombie in 6 months so keep good food in the fridge so he can come down and get it. In all seriousness though it's a society thing now that misinformation etc leads people to be like this and I don't begrudge him for it - I honestly feel a bit for him.

Loads in office here

All normal guys and dolls.

One lad very private, mad into fitness, thinks his immune system will do the work(mid 30s)
Other guy, normal lad, gives no reason and just cuts conversation dead when mentioned(40s)
Young lad, uni intern, seems very tuned in and well educated, says doesnt trust it and he is too young to be comcerned(21)
2 girls, keep mentioning having babies(20s)
1 lad, says ah keep meaning to bookit(40s)
1 guy says its poison

Over 50% not vaccinated? I'd say that is extremely rare. Uptake in the North-West is very high as far as I'm aware.
I personally know 3 people who are refusing to take it. One is a stay at home mother, YouTube fanatic, anti everything especially the vaccine and big Pharma. Her husband is a pharmacist. One is a family friend. She says her mind is made up and no one will change it. She wasn't aware that the vaccine reduced transmission rates. The 3rd, says he doesn't trust the science. He has 3 x kids all vaccinated to the hilt.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 07, 2021, 11:47:35 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 07, 2021, 11:27:02 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 07, 2021, 08:56:50 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 07, 2021, 08:40:21 AM
Out of interest do many of you know many people who wouldn't take it?

I know a boy who worked with me, left last week, would be very against it. He is a boy who struggles a lot with mental health and who reads a lot of stuff on the internet which isn't very helpful conspiracy theory wise etc. He won't get one. Any time I see him in public I tell him to wear a bell and then he tells me that I'll be a zombie in 6 months so keep good food in the fridge so he can come down and get it. In all seriousness though it's a society thing now that misinformation etc leads people to be like this and I don't begrudge him for it - I honestly feel a bit for him.

Loads in office here

All normal guys and dolls.

One lad very private, mad into fitness, thinks his immune system will do the work(mid 30s)
Other guy, normal lad, gives no reason and just cuts conversation dead when mentioned(40s)
Young lad, uni intern, seems very tuned in and well educated, says doesnt trust it and he is too young to be comcerned(21)
2 girls, keep mentioning having babies(20s)
1 lad, says ah keep meaning to bookit(40s)
1 guy says its poison

Over 50% not vaccinated? I'd say that is extremely rare. Uptake in the North-West is very high as far as I'm aware.
I personally know 3 people who are refusing to take it. One is a stay at home home, YouTube fanatic, anti everything especially the vaccine and big Pharma. Her husband is a pharmacist. One is a family friend. She says her mind is made up and no one will change it. She wasn't aware that the vaccine reduced transmission rates. The 3rd, says he doesn't trust the science. He has 3 x kids all vaccinated to the hilt.

We could just be in our own wee bubble possibly, everyone  influencing everyone else
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 07, 2021, 01:33:40 PM
https://i.imgur.com/J7LANQ4.mp4
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Maroon Manc on July 07, 2021, 02:37:18 PM
Anyone took the boat over to England and came back home to the south via Belfast?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 07, 2021, 04:09:48 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on July 07, 2021, 02:37:18 PM
Anyone took the boat over to England and came back home to the south via Belfast?

This doesn't excuse you from quarantine requirements, it merely allows you evade them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 07, 2021, 06:25:00 PM
Listening to radio Ulster there in way home , seems the anti vaxer thingy annoying a lot of folk and seemingly a lot out there not taking vaccine
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 07, 2021, 07:04:47 PM
Sadly there are always thick ignorant c***s around.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 07, 2021, 07:25:28 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 06, 2021, 04:54:43 PM
Good going. North is even further along. Those in charge of the vaccine rollout really have done a superb job.

63,841 vaccinated yesterday (Tuesday) in the 26 counties, that's about 1.64% of the over 16 population. Most of these were second doses or J&J, so the proportion fully vaccinated went up 1.3% in one day. Last week, Wednesday was the best day when they did over 64,000, perhaps today will beat that.  Whatever about a slow start earlier in the year when AZ stiffed them, now they are sucking diesel.

Quote from: Rossfan on July 07, 2021, 07:04:47 PM
Sadly there are always thick ignorant c***s around.

But these particular thick ignorant c***s are dangerous as well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 07, 2021, 07:27:53 PM
Yuk. That C word. Irony.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 07, 2021, 08:51:09 PM
There are plenty not taking the vaccine, but doing everything else right to prevent spread. And there are many more that are double jabbed and doing feck all in terms of stopping the spread, wearing masks etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on July 07, 2021, 09:19:53 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 07, 2021, 08:51:09 PM
There are plenty not taking the vaccine, but doing everything else right to prevent spread. And there are many more that are double jabbed and doing feck all in terms of stopping the spread, wearing masks etc.
Benny still doesn't realize that getting the vaccine means you're very unlikely to pass on Covid. Not impossible, but very unlikely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 07, 2021, 09:33:51 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 07, 2021, 08:51:09 PM
There are plenty not taking the vaccine, but doing everything else right to prevent spread. And there are many more that are double jabbed and doing feck all in terms of stopping the spread, wearing masks etc.

That's a bit like saying that there are plenty that drink and drive, but are otherwise careful.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 07, 2021, 11:37:28 PM
Quote from: Hound on July 07, 2021, 09:19:53 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 07, 2021, 08:51:09 PM
There are plenty not taking the vaccine, but doing everything else right to prevent spread. And there are many more that are double jabbed and doing feck all in terms of stopping the spread, wearing masks etc.
Benny still doesn't realize that getting the vaccine means you're very unlikely to pass on Covid. Not impossible, but very unlikely.

Hard to believe Benny's contributions at this stage of proceedings. Lunacy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 07, 2021, 11:41:20 PM
Quote from: Hound on July 07, 2021, 09:19:53 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 07, 2021, 08:51:09 PM
There are plenty not taking the vaccine, but doing everything else right to prevent spread. And there are many more that are double jabbed and doing feck all in terms of stopping the spread, wearing masks etc.
Benny still doesn't realize that getting the vaccine means you're very unlikely to pass on Covid. Not impossible, but very unlikely.

And by wearing masks, social distancing, etc etc means you're unlikely to pass on covid either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 07, 2021, 11:56:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 07, 2021, 11:41:20 PM
Quote from: Hound on July 07, 2021, 09:19:53 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 07, 2021, 08:51:09 PM
There are plenty not taking the vaccine, but doing everything else right to prevent spread. And there are many more that are double jabbed and doing feck all in terms of stopping the spread, wearing masks etc.
Benny still doesn't realize that getting the vaccine means you're very unlikely to pass on Covid. Not impossible, but very unlikely.

And by wearing masks, social distancing, etc etc means you're unlikely to pass on covid either.

Are people going to continue to do this when things open up, I think not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on July 08, 2021, 02:12:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 07, 2021, 11:56:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 07, 2021, 11:41:20 PM
Quote from: Hound on July 07, 2021, 09:19:53 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 07, 2021, 08:51:09 PM
There are plenty not taking the vaccine, but doing everything else right to prevent spread. And there are many more that are double jabbed and doing feck all in terms of stopping the spread, wearing masks etc.
Benny still doesn't realize that getting the vaccine means you're very unlikely to pass on Covid. Not impossible, but very unlikely.

And by wearing masks, social distancing, etc etc means you're unlikely to pass on covid either.

Are people going to continue to do this when things open up, I think not.

You know what, come the 19th, every ballbag whose had their "freedoms" restricted will be out and about, no mask even on public transport and confined spaces irrespective of what the local guidelines are as Boris has decreed so in England..

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 08, 2021, 03:13:43 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/8c3ec364-e687-4daf-9442-e73065aa2649
cCases have ticked up since Israel lifted all remaining Covid restrictions on June 1, with many experts blaming the highly transmissible Delta variant brought into Israel by returning travellers.
After weeks of single-digit daily infection rates, the number of new cases has ballooned to more than 400 per day this week. As of Wednesday, the country had more than 3,345 active cases — almost triple that of the previous week —
"[Israel's] numbers are rising, and will continue to rise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 08, 2021, 03:25:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 08, 2021, 03:13:43 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/8c3ec364-e687-4daf-9442-e73065aa2649
cCases have ticked up since Israel lifted all remaining Covid restrictions on June 1, with many experts blaming the highly transmissible Delta variant brought into Israel by returning travellers.
After weeks of single-digit daily infection rates, the number of new cases has ballooned to more than 400 per day this week. As of Wednesday, the country had more than 3,345 active cases — almost triple that of the previous week —
"[Israel's] numbers are rising, and will continue to rise.
To be expected as things reopen, given Delta is meant to be more transmissible, not everyone has the vaccine and vaccine doesn't totally stop the spread.  How are hospitalisations and deaths?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 08, 2021, 03:44:26 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/olympics/2021/0708/1233810-state-of-emergency-declared-in-tokyo-ahead-of-olympics/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 08, 2021, 03:53:54 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 08, 2021, 03:25:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 08, 2021, 03:13:43 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/8c3ec364-e687-4daf-9442-e73065aa2649
cCases have ticked up since Israel lifted all remaining Covid restrictions on June 1, with many experts blaming the highly transmissible Delta variant brought into Israel by returning travellers.
After weeks of single-digit daily infection rates, the number of new cases has ballooned to more than 400 per day this week. As of Wednesday, the country had more than 3,345 active cases — almost triple that of the previous week —
"[Israel's] numbers are rising, and will continue to rise.
To be expected as things reopen, given Delta is meant to be more transmissible, not everyone has the vaccine and vaccine doesn't totally stop the spread.  How are hospitalisations and deaths?

(https://i.ibb.co/RDzFnR3/Screenshot-20210708-154618-2.png) (https://ibb.co/DR5JX09)


(https://i.ibb.co/SJ1QFB3/Screenshot-20210708-154552-2.png) (https://ibb.co/x3cmx67)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 08, 2021, 07:01:55 PM
There are not going to be a large number of deaths in Isreal, but some will happen 4 or 6 weeks after case numbers increase. Comparing cases today with deaths today is misleading.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 08, 2021, 07:24:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 08, 2021, 07:01:55 PM
There are not going to be a large number of deaths in Isreal, but some will happen 4 or 6 weeks after case numbers increase. Comparing cases today with deaths today is misleading.

Some deaths instead of a lot gives countries the opportunity to live with this virus in a simliar way that they did with influenza viruses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 08, 2021, 09:27:53 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 08, 2021, 07:24:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 08, 2021, 07:01:55 PM
There are not going to be a large number of deaths in Isreal, but some will happen 4 or 6 weeks after case numbers increase. Comparing cases today with deaths today is misleading.

Some deaths instead of a lot gives countries the opportunity to live with this virus in a simliar way that they did with influenza viruses.

Israel isn't in a bad way, but they have reintroduced mask requirements in shops and buses and some other modest measures. The UK is much worse, but is proposing to remove these restrictions nonetheless.

(https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/https%3A%2F%2Fd6c748xw2pzm8.cloudfront.net%2Fprod%2F804a54d0-df43-11eb-a8eb-2f3b5350bd78-standard.png?dpr=2&fit=scale-down&quality=medium&source=next&width=700)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 08, 2021, 10:26:23 PM
Boris couldn't be seen to keep restrictions for another few weeks, as there would be too much opposition to it, and that would  basically mean the summer is gone, and hospitality, cafes, pubs etc with it too.

So, open up knowing people will go mad, cases will rise... and before you know it, it's more restrictions.  But it's not Boris' fault, it's all your fault! See you next spring! (If you make it)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 09, 2021, 04:39:05 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/gemma-o-doherty-ordered-to-remove-defamatory-videos-1.4615956

Eoin McCullough SC, with Michael Binchy BL, for the hospital and its director of Nursing, Maria Murray, sought the orders in proceeding alleging defamation in the videos in which Ms O'Doherty claimed, inter alia, hospital staff are being "forced" to take "experimental Covid-19 injections" which, she alleged, have killed thousands of people.

Ms O'Doherty also claimed in the videos that staff who did not take vaccines were harassed and demoted, described the hospital as "a death camp," and said it employed "psychopaths" and "had committed crimes against humanity".

She further claimed the hospital had denied life-saving treatment to patients, and is administering "lethal" injections of Covid-19 vaccines.

Defamatory
In his judgment, Mr Justice Senan Allen found they were defamatory, Ms O'Doherty had no reasonable defence to that, and said he was making various orders, including injunctions, requiring Ms O'Doherty to take them down.

What Ms O'Doherty had said in her reporting about the hospital and Ms Murray was "devoid of substance" and there was no prospect of her ever standing it up, he said.

He said courts must be careful not to interfere with free speech or the free expression of opinions but they will intervene if it can be shown statements have been made, and are liable to be repeated, for which there is no reasonable basis.

Gemma O'Doherty says hospital's action against her over videos 'spurious'
Hospital seeks injunctions against Gemma O'Doherty over 'clearly defamatory' videos
The judge said he absolutely agreed with Ms O'Doherty that journalists have a duty to report and comment on matters in the public interest, even if what is reported has a negative impact on the reputations of those involved.

He further agreed with her,that journalists have a role in holding powerful institutions like the hospital to account, and that shining a light on poor behaviour forces public bodies to do better and improve standards.

However, he rejected Ms Doherty's claim the pursuit of the injunctions against her was tantamount to denying journalists the human right to freely report on matters of public importance.

With the right of free speech "comes the responsibility not to wantonly or recklessly impugn the good name of others," he said.

'Goes much too far'
He was satisfied to make orders requiring the defendant to remove the videos and cease publishing the defamatory statements at the centre of the action.

He declined to make an order restraining Ms O'Doherty publishing anything about the hospital or Ms Murray because that "goes much too far."

The orders are to remain in place pending the outcome of the full hearing of the plaintiffs' defamation action against Ms O'Doherty.

In opposing the injunctions , Ms O'Doherty said she would "not be silenced" over what she said was one of the biggest scandals in the history of the State which she had been reporting on. She said she stood over what she had said in the videos.

She submitted the action was "spurious", "outrageous" and "a waste of public money".

Mr Justice Allen said the action was not about Ms O'Doherty's "fringe views" on vaccines or on Covid-19. She was entitled to her own opinion whether there is an emergency or not, he said.

What she has said in the videos was that the plaintiffs "well knowing that there is no Covid-19 crisis" had engaged in practises such as restricting life-saving medical treatment, and had administered Covid-19 vaccines to staff without consent, he said.

It was his firm view she has no reasonable prospect of establishing the truth of what she has said about the plaintiffs, he said.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on July 10, 2021, 10:16:56 AM
BBC News - Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57781637
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 11, 2021, 07:22:57 AM
The indoor dining is set to reopen at the end of the month. Does anybody here think vaccine people only should be allowed in? Or are they like me thanking it's a load of bollox. And the 105 minutes rule as well is pure stupidity.  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on July 11, 2021, 08:03:23 AM
I see ye can die of double covid now....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 11, 2021, 08:18:39 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 10, 2021, 10:16:56 AM
BBC News - Heart inflammation link to Pfizer and Moderna jabs
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57781637
I wonder how long indoor dining will last with Delta

https://youtu.be/__uex8Z-u6s
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: larryin89 on July 11, 2021, 09:10:49 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 11, 2021, 07:22:57 AM
The indoor dining is set to reopen at the end of the month. Does anybody here think vaccine people only should be allowed in? Or are they like me thanking it's a load of bollox. And the 105 minutes rule as well is pure stupidity.  ::)

The 105 min rule is mind boggling and everyone in there double jabbed too .

Are we the only country in the world to apply such a rule. 

Nphet think they are god
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 11, 2021, 09:35:48 AM
Quote from: larryin89 on July 11, 2021, 09:10:49 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 11, 2021, 07:22:57 AM
The indoor dining is set to reopen at the end of the month. Does anybody here think vaccine people only should be allowed in? Or are they like me thanking it's a load of bollox. And the 105 minutes rule as well is pure stupidity.  ::)

The 105 min rule is mind boggling and everyone in there double jabbed too .

Are we the only country in the world to apply such a rule. 

Nphet think they are god
Should all be chased to f**k from about the place. North Korea suit them lads better.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 11, 2021, 06:23:44 PM
ROI weekly update. As expected cases continue to rise and will likely be like that for at least another month. Small rise in hospital but remains in a stable condition.

16 in ICU. ( 2 more than last week)
58 in hospital (10 more than a week ago)
3665 cases ( 587 more than last week)


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on July 12, 2021, 12:13:11 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 11, 2021, 06:23:44 PM
ROI weekly update. As expected cases continue to rise and will likely be like that for at least another month. Small rise in hospital but remains in a stable condition.

16 in ICU. ( 2 more than last week)
58 in hospital (10 more than a week ago)
3665 cases ( 587 more than last week)

Q, should 58 people ( and God willing they all get better) or 0.00001% of the population be a reason that all indoor dining to be pretty much shut down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on July 12, 2021, 12:34:55 AM
Quote from: joemamas on July 12, 2021, 12:13:11 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 11, 2021, 06:23:44 PM
ROI weekly update. As expected cases continue to rise and will likely be like that for at least another month. Small rise in hospital but remains in a stable condition.

16 in ICU. ( 2 more than last week)
58 in hospital (10 more than a week ago)
3665 cases ( 587 more than last week)

Q, should 58 people ( and God willing they all get better) or 0.00001% of the population be a reason that all indoor dining to be pretty much shut down.

Christ above..... these people aren't the reason indoor dining is shut
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 12, 2021, 09:01:45 AM
Quote from: joemamas on July 12, 2021, 12:13:11 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 11, 2021, 06:23:44 PM
ROI weekly update. As expected cases continue to rise and will likely be like that for at least another month. Small rise in hospital but remains in a stable condition.

16 in ICU. ( 2 more than last week)
58 in hospital (10 more than a week ago)
3665 cases ( 587 more than last week)

Q, should 58 people ( and God willing they all get better) or 0.00001% of the population be a reason that all indoor dining to be pretty much shut down.
It is ridiculous
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 14, 2021, 11:57:57 PM
Welcome to Nazi Germany

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/
(https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 15, 2021, 12:14:39 AM
It was stay closed or open with conditions.
Delta might close everything down in another few weeks way its spreading.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 15, 2021, 12:29:38 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2021, 11:57:57 PM
Welcome to Nazi Germany

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/
(https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/)

Interesting way to describe opening restaurants.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on July 15, 2021, 01:30:04 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 15, 2021, 12:29:38 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2021, 11:57:57 PM
Welcome to Nazi Germany

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/
(https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/)

Interesting way to describe opening restaurants.

I'd say accurate more than interesting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 15, 2021, 01:43:36 AM
Accurate if you are given to gross exaggeration.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 07:34:28 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2021, 11:57:57 PM
Welcome to Nazi Germany

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/
(https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/)
Absolutely disgusting. Hopefully any restaurant that asks for prove of vaccine is boycotted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 15, 2021, 08:04:57 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 07:34:28 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2021, 11:57:57 PM
Welcome to Nazi Germany

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/
(https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/)
Absolutely disgusting. Hopefully any restaurant that asks for prove of vaccine is boycotted.

Boycotting restaurants? Disgusting?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on July 15, 2021, 08:21:10 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2021, 11:57:57 PM
Welcome to Nazi Germany

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/
(https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/)
Welcome to the most ludicrous post on here in quite some time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 15, 2021, 09:24:00 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2021, 11:57:57 PM
Welcome to Nazi Germany

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/
(https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/)

This is a disgraceful comment. You've no understanding of what Nazi Germany was like and to compare it to being vaccinated shows a lack of empathy for what people did suffer under the Nazi regime. You should delete this comment.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on July 15, 2021, 09:28:18 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 07:34:28 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2021, 11:57:57 PM
Welcome to Nazi Germany

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/
(https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/)
Absolutely disgusting. Hopefully any restaurant that asks for prove of vaccine is boycotted.

yes, and put a star above their doors while you're at it.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 15, 2021, 09:29:02 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 15, 2021, 08:21:10 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2021, 11:57:57 PM
Welcome to Nazi Germany

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/
(https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/)
Welcome to the most ludicrous post on here in quite some time.

And that takes some doing from Benny. Though most posts aren't as quite unhinged. Nazi Germany, wtf. But it is the kind of language you see more and more of from the scamdemic / anti-everything lunatic fringe who, once a tiny group, are now hoovering up folk who won't be inconvenienced for anyone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 15, 2021, 09:40:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 07:34:28 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2021, 11:57:57 PM
Welcome to Nazi Germany

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/
(https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/)
Absolutely disgusting. Hopefully any restaurant that asks for prove of vaccine is boycotted.

How were you historically on boycotting the USA (green card) , South East Asia, parts of Africa due to the requirement of vaccines? You must have been absolutely disgusted surely?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:50:42 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 15, 2021, 09:29:02 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 15, 2021, 08:21:10 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2021, 11:57:57 PM
Welcome to Nazi Germany

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/
(https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/)
Welcome to the most ludicrous post on here in quite some time.

And that takes some doing from Benny. Though most posts aren't as quite unhinged. Nazi Germany, wtf. But it is the kind of language you see more and more of from the scamdemic / anti-everything lunatic fringe who, once a tiny group, are now hoovering up folk who won't be inconvenienced for anyone.

Yeah that's right, anyone with a different opinion is a lunatic  ::)

It's amazing how many people willingly just accept anything thrown at them from above, and think it's a good thing. Untested jabs, now vaccine passports.

Do you really think passports for hospitality will end in October? Or new year? Easter? Will it shite. There will always be another variant, real or imagined. Do you think passports arent going to be needed in other establishments? Cinemas, gyms, supermarkets, barbers, GAA matches?? This is just the beginning. This is never going to stop.

I said here over a year ago that these passports  was going to happen. Now it is. I read about this over a decade ago, and now it's happening. But yeah, I'm just a lunatic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 07:34:28 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2021, 11:57:57 PM
Welcome to Nazi Germany

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/
(https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/)
Absolutely disgusting. Hopefully any restaurant that asks for prove of vaccine is boycotted.

It's just another nail in the coffin for small businesses.

Lots of restaurants and pubs are desperate for trade, and they can't afford to turn away those who are unvaccinated or those who haven't got the vaccine yet. This will probably involve some sort of technology (added cost) and extra staff to police it (again, more cost). If they don't abide by the rules and are caught, they're fined. And that will likely be them out of business.  The big restaurant chain will now mop up their trade.

Same will happen for the local corner shop, butcher, newsagent, cafe, book shop. They'll be mopped up by Tesco or Asda. Global brands. That's who's benefitting from all this. Our governments are facilitating all this. When you lose your business or lose your job , you know who to thank. But don't worry, I'm sure Amazon/Tesco/deliveroo are hiring. Lots of opportunities to get f***ked over by global companies who pay no tax, and will pay you a pittance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 15, 2021, 10:31:21 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:50:42 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 15, 2021, 09:29:02 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 15, 2021, 08:21:10 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2021, 11:57:57 PM
Welcome to Nazi Germany

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/
(https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/)
Welcome to the most ludicrous post on here in quite some time.

And that takes some doing from Benny. Though most posts aren't as quite unhinged. Nazi Germany, wtf. But it is the kind of language you see more and more of from the scamdemic / anti-everything lunatic fringe who, once a tiny group, are now hoovering up folk who won't be inconvenienced for anyone.

Yeah that's right, anyone with a different opinion is a lunatic  ::)

It's amazing how many people willingly just accept anything thrown at them from above, and think it's a good thing. Untested jabs, now vaccine passports.

Do you really think passports for hospitality will end in October? Or new year? Easter? Will it shite. There will always be another variant, real or imagined. Do you think passports arent going to be needed in other establishments? Cinemas, gyms, supermarkets, barbers, GAA matches?? This is just the beginning. This is never going to stop.

I said here over a year ago that these passports  was going to happen. Now it is. I read about this over a decade ago, and now it's happening. But yeah, I'm just a lunatic.

No, not at all. anyone coming out with the type of lunacy you have willl quite rightly be called a lunatic. Differing opinions are to be welcomed, but the nonsense you've just come out with needs calling out. Nazi Germany?? Jesus christ
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 10:35:03 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 15, 2021, 09:29:02 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 15, 2021, 08:21:10 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2021, 11:57:57 PM
Welcome to Nazi Germany

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/
(https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/)
Welcome to the most ludicrous post on here in quite some time.

And that takes some doing from Benny. Though most posts aren't as quite unhinged. Nazi Germany, wtf. But it is the kind of language you see more and more of from the scamdemic / anti-everything lunatic fringe who, once a tiny group, are now hoovering up folk who won't be inconvenienced for anyone.

Mattie McGrath (Independent TD from Tipp)  came out with the same nonsense comparing the vaccine certs to nazism (not for the first time) and had the auschwitz museum calling him out for his ignorance. The head the balls/lunatics looking at him as a hero on twitter for his stance on covid/vaccinations should be evidence enough of why you should get one
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 15, 2021, 10:37:21 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 07:34:28 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2021, 11:57:57 PM
Welcome to Nazi Germany

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/
(https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/)
Absolutely disgusting. Hopefully any restaurant that asks for prove of vaccine is boycotted.

It's just another nail in the coffin for small businesses.

Lots of restaurants and pubs are desperate for trade, and they can't afford to turn away those who are unvaccinated or those who haven't got the vaccine yet. This will probably involve some sort of technology (added cost) and extra staff to police it (again, more cost). If they don't abide by the rules and are caught, they're fined. And that will likely be them out of business.  The big restaurant chain will now mop up their trade.

Same will happen for the local corner shop, butcher, newsagent, cafe, book shop. They'll be mopped up by Tesco or Asda. Global brands. That's who's benefitting from all this. Our governments are facilitating all this. When you lose your business or lose your job , you know who to thank. But don't worry, I'm sure Amazon/Tesco/deliveroo are hiring. Lots of opportunities to get f***ked over by global companies who pay no tax, and will pay you a pittance.

Wise up ffs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 10:42:02 AM
Lad's I'm no conspiracy theorist or Gemma O'D supporting loon, but if you think it is anyones business bar your own who is and isn't vaccinated you are f**king nuts. Fair play to all the bars and restaurants who have said they will not be asking if you are vaccinated or not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Snapchap on July 15, 2021, 10:45:13 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 15, 2021, 10:37:21 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 07:34:28 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2021, 11:57:57 PM
Welcome to Nazi Germany

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/
(https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/)
Absolutely disgusting. Hopefully any restaurant that asks for prove of vaccine is boycotted.

It's just another nail in the coffin for small businesses.

Lots of restaurants and pubs are desperate for trade, and they can't afford to turn away those who are unvaccinated or those who haven't got the vaccine yet. This will probably involve some sort of technology (added cost) and extra staff to police it (again, more cost). If they don't abide by the rules and are caught, they're fined. And that will likely be them out of business.  The big restaurant chain will now mop up their trade.

Same will happen for the local corner shop, butcher, newsagent, cafe, book shop. They'll be mopped up by Tesco or Asda. Global brands. That's who's benefitting from all this. Our governments are facilitating all this. When you lose your business or lose your job , you know who to thank. But don't worry, I'm sure Amazon/Tesco/deliveroo are hiring. Lots of opportunities to get f***ked over by global companies who pay no tax, and will pay you a pittance.

Wise up ffs.
As counter-arguments go, it's not the best.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 10:47:09 AM
On another note I see the Wolfe Tones concert is sold out for August already from 10am. I wonder how many will be allowed to go and am looking forward to Jim Allister and Co's meltdown as well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:48:06 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 15, 2021, 10:37:21 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 07:34:28 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2021, 11:57:57 PM
Welcome to Nazi Germany

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/
(https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/)
Absolutely disgusting. Hopefully any restaurant that asks for prove of vaccine is boycotted.

It's just another nail in the coffin for small businesses.

Lots of restaurants and pubs are desperate for trade, and they can't afford to turn away those who are unvaccinated or those who haven't got the vaccine yet. This will probably involve some sort of technology (added cost) and extra staff to police it (again, more cost). If they don't abide by the rules and are caught, they're fined. And that will likely be them out of business.  The big restaurant chain will now mop up their trade.

Same will happen for the local corner shop, butcher, newsagent, cafe, book shop. They'll be mopped up by Tesco or Asda. Global brands. That's who's benefitting from all this. Our governments are facilitating all this. When you lose your business or lose your job , you know who to thank. But don't worry, I'm sure Amazon/Tesco/deliveroo are hiring. Lots of opportunities to get f***ked over by global companies who pay no tax, and will pay you a pittance.

Wise up ffs.

Good comeback.

Which part of it was incorrect?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on July 15, 2021, 10:51:05 AM
Benny is making valid points regarding small business getting eaten up by corporate. Thats not lunacy. The vaccine certs are discriminatory, plus people who acted the maggot within the last 6 months can party on, while others who acted responsibly are been penalized.
I know 3 people who are double jabbed, who now have bad covid (2 in hospital at the moment, one a healthy 35 year old, the other a not to healthy 52 year old).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:51:14 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 15, 2021, 10:31:21 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:50:42 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 15, 2021, 09:29:02 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on July 15, 2021, 08:21:10 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2021, 11:57:57 PM
Welcome to Nazi Germany

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/
(https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/)
Welcome to the most ludicrous post on here in quite some time.

And that takes some doing from Benny. Though most posts aren't as quite unhinged. Nazi Germany, wtf. But it is the kind of language you see more and more of from the scamdemic / anti-everything lunatic fringe who, once a tiny group, are now hoovering up folk who won't be inconvenienced for anyone.

Yeah that's right, anyone with a different opinion is a lunatic  ::)

It's amazing how many people willingly just accept anything thrown at them from above, and think it's a good thing. Untested jabs, now vaccine passports.

Do you really think passports for hospitality will end in October? Or new year? Easter? Will it shite. There will always be another variant, real or imagined. Do you think passports arent going to be needed in other establishments? Cinemas, gyms, supermarkets, barbers, GAA matches?? This is just the beginning. This is never going to stop.

I said here over a year ago that these passports  was going to happen. Now it is. I read about this over a decade ago, and now it's happening. But yeah, I'm just a lunatic.

No, not at all. anyone coming out with the type of lunacy you have willl quite rightly be called a lunatic. Differing opinions are to be welcomed, but the nonsense you've just come out with needs calling out. Nazi Germany?? Jesus christ

Ok so taking away the Nazi Germany comment... which bit of the above comment  is incorrect?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 15, 2021, 10:52:06 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:48:06 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 15, 2021, 10:37:21 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 07:34:28 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2021, 11:57:57 PM
Welcome to Nazi Germany

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/
(https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/)
Absolutely disgusting. Hopefully any restaurant that asks for prove of vaccine is boycotted.

It's just another nail in the coffin for small businesses.

Lots of restaurants and pubs are desperate for trade, and they can't afford to turn away those who are unvaccinated or those who haven't got the vaccine yet. This will probably involve some sort of technology (added cost) and extra staff to police it (again, more cost). If they don't abide by the rules and are caught, they're fined. And that will likely be them out of business.  The big restaurant chain will now mop up their trade.

Same will happen for the local corner shop, butcher, newsagent, cafe, book shop. They'll be mopped up by Tesco or Asda. Global brands. That's who's benefitting from all this. Our governments are facilitating all this. When you lose your business or lose your job , you know who to thank. But don't worry, I'm sure Amazon/Tesco/deliveroo are hiring. Lots of opportunities to get f***ked over by global companies who pay no tax, and will pay you a pittance.

Wise up ffs.

Good comeback.

Which part of it was incorrect?

The bit that you wrote.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 10:42:02 AM
Lad's I'm no conspiracy theorist or Gemma O'D supporting loon, but if you think it is anyones business bar your own who is and isn't vaccinated you are f**king nuts. Fair play to all the bars and restaurants who have said they will not be asking if you are vaccinated or not.

If someone doesn't want to get a covid vaccine then that is their choice. If someone wants to make a comparison between Nazi Germany and vaccinations then they absolutely deserve to be ridiculed and called out for their ignorance.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on July 15, 2021, 10:52:52 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 10:42:02 AM
Lad's I'm no conspiracy theorist or Gemma O'D supporting loon, but if you think it is anyones business bar your own who is and isn't vaccinated you are f**king nuts. Fair play to all the bars and restaurants who have said they will not be asking if you are vaccinated or not.

It kinda is everyone's business, have you not forgot we are in a middle of a pandemic.

Australia back implementing lockdowns.... Spain at the same. This is no where near over yet.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 10:53:23 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 15, 2021, 10:51:05 AM
Benny is making valid points regarding small business getting eaten up by corporate. Thats not lunacy. The vaccine certs are discriminatory, plus people who acted the maggot within the last 6 months can party on, while others who acted responsibly are been penalized.
I know 3 people who are double jabbed, who now have bad covid (2 in hospital at the moment, one a healthy 35 year old, the other a not to healthy 52 year old).
That is worrying. Hope they both get through it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:54:25 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 15, 2021, 10:52:06 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:48:06 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 15, 2021, 10:37:21 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:03:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 07:34:28 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 14, 2021, 11:57:57 PM
Welcome to Nazi Germany

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/
(https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0714/1235091-hospitality/)
Absolutely disgusting. Hopefully any restaurant that asks for prove of vaccine is boycotted.

It's just another nail in the coffin for small businesses.

Lots of restaurants and pubs are desperate for trade, and they can't afford to turn away those who are unvaccinated or those who haven't got the vaccine yet. This will probably involve some sort of technology (added cost) and extra staff to police it (again, more cost). If they don't abide by the rules and are caught, they're fined. And that will likely be them out of business.  The big restaurant chain will now mop up their trade.

Same will happen for the local corner shop, butcher, newsagent, cafe, book shop. They'll be mopped up by Tesco or Asda. Global brands. That's who's benefitting from all this. Our governments are facilitating all this. When you lose your business or lose your job , you know who to thank. But don't worry, I'm sure Amazon/Tesco/deliveroo are hiring. Lots of opportunities to get f***ked over by global companies who pay no tax, and will pay you a pittance.

Wise up ffs.

Good comeback.

Which part of it was incorrect?

The bit that you wrote.

I see. Well I've no comeback to that.

Game set and match to trailer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:58:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 10:42:02 AM
Lad's I'm no conspiracy theorist or Gemma O'D supporting loon, but if you think it is anyones business bar your own who is and isn't vaccinated you are f**king nuts. Fair play to all the bars and restaurants who have said they will not be asking if you are vaccinated or not.

If someone doesn't want to get a covid vaccine then that is their choice. If someone wants to make a comparison between Nazi Germany and vaccinations then they absolutely deserve to be ridiculed and called out for their ignorance.

But it's not their choice, is it? It is for now, but not much longer.

Did they not give forced vaccines in the concentration camps?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 15, 2021, 10:58:35 AM
There is no other way out of this other than the vaccine. Restaurants stay closed without it, as does non essential retail, and sports, and probably schools. There is no other solution. So insisting that only those vaccinated can avail of these services is reasonable. Imperfect I get that, but reasonable.

I ask honestly, if you say no to the vaccine what is your solution?

Note: The governments won't allow health services to be overrun (quite rightly), so the let it rip approach isn't going to work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 15, 2021, 11:05:14 AM
Let it R.I.P..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 11:39:04 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 15, 2021, 10:58:35 AM
There is no other way out of this other than the vaccine. Restaurants stay closed without it, as does non essential retail, and sports, and probably schools. There is no other solution. So insisting that only those vaccinated can avail of these services is reasonable. Imperfect I get that, but reasonable.

I ask honestly, if you say no to the vaccine what is your solution?

Note: The governments won't allow health services to be overrun (quite rightly), so the let it rip approach isn't going to work.

I've heard that a thousand times. But it's clearly not true. Soon it will be "the top up jab is the only way out of this", then "forced vaccinations of all workers are the only way out of this", "covid passports are the only way out"..."track and trace, constant surveillance..." people will just become used to a life of constant jabs, constant scanning their QR code to buy milk and bread without giving it a seconds thought.

Ach it's only for a short time, until things get back to normal. When they say something is temporary, that means it's permanent. But as I said months ago, this isn't about fighting a virus anymore
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 15, 2021, 11:45:20 AM
Can you answer this question bennycake.

How do we get out of this without a vaccine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 15, 2021, 11:58:45 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 11:39:04 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 15, 2021, 10:58:35 AM
There is no other way out of this other than the vaccine. Restaurants stay closed without it, as does non essential retail, and sports, and probably schools. There is no other solution. So insisting that only those vaccinated can avail of these services is reasonable. Imperfect I get that, but reasonable.

I ask honestly, if you say no to the vaccine what is your solution?

Note: The governments won't allow health services to be overrun (quite rightly), so the let it rip approach isn't going to work.

I've heard that a thousand times. But it's clearly not true. Soon it will be "the top up jab is the only way out of this", then "forced vaccinations of all workers are the only way out of this", "covid passports are the only way out"..."track and trace, constant surveillance..." people will just become used to a life of constant jabs, constant scanning their QR code to buy milk and bread without giving it a seconds thought.

Ach it's only for a short time, until things get back to normal. When they say something is temporary, that means it's permanent. But as I said months ago, this isn't about fighting a virus anymore

What is your solution?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on July 15, 2021, 01:45:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 15, 2021, 11:58:45 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 11:39:04 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 15, 2021, 10:58:35 AM
There is no other way out of this other than the vaccine. Restaurants stay closed without it, as does non essential retail, and sports, and probably schools. There is no other solution. So insisting that only those vaccinated can avail of these services is reasonable. Imperfect I get that, but reasonable.

I ask honestly, if you say no to the vaccine what is your solution?

Note: The governments won't allow health services to be overrun (quite rightly), so the let it rip approach isn't going to work.

I've heard that a thousand times. But it's clearly not true. Soon it will be "the top up jab is the only way out of this", then "forced vaccinations of all workers are the only way out of this", "covid passports are the only way out"..."track and trace, constant surveillance..." people will just become used to a life of constant jabs, constant scanning their QR code to buy milk and bread without giving it a seconds thought.

Ach it's only for a short time, until things get back to normal. When they say something is temporary, that means it's permanent. But as I said months ago, this isn't about fighting a virus anymore

What is your solution?

He doesn't have one.
You are perfectly entitled to not take the vaccine, I've no issue with that, however irresponsible I feel it may be.
However, as we know the vaccine helps protect against severe illness and transmission of C19 but is not 100% effective. I believe that those who are responsible enough to take the vaccine should not be exposed to risk by those of us who are being irresponsible and selfish.
I'm sure there are genuine cases out there were people are afraid of the vaccine, but the majority of people I've come across who are not going to take it are of the opinion that they are healthy and they'll be fine if they get it. These same people didn't follow restrictions and would happily ignore all social distancing regulations. Seflish, self centred behaviour which puts others at risk imo. It's equivalent to someone saying they're fine to drive after 5 pints.

The conspiracy theorists out there think the governments globally want to track us all and know what we are eating in Mickey D's and want to keep that info private. That's fine, but throw away the smart phone when you're at it and don't be a hypocrite because if you are so sensitive about what Big Brother knows about you then you need to go fully offline.

As for me, the responsible people in society who follow the science should be protected. If it takes vaccine passports to gain access to hospitality/shops/entertainment to enable that protection for the socially responsible majority then I'm all for it.
Let the selfish minority look out for themselves and don't let them put the rest of us at risk.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 15, 2021, 02:16:46 PM
Excellent intelligent post tbrick.

As opposed to this gobshitery
https://m.independent.ie/videos/rose-conway-walsh-td-compares-partial-re-opening-of-indoor-dining-to-discrimination-faced-by-rosa-parks-40656685.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 02:20:07 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:58:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 10:42:02 AM
Lad's I'm no conspiracy theorist or Gemma O'D supporting loon, but if you think it is anyones business bar your own who is and isn't vaccinated you are f**king nuts. Fair play to all the bars and restaurants who have said they will not be asking if you are vaccinated or not.

If someone doesn't want to get a covid vaccine then that is their choice. If someone wants to make a comparison between Nazi Germany and vaccinations then they absolutely deserve to be ridiculed and called out for their ignorance.

But it's not their choice, is it? It is for now, but not much longer.

Did they not give forced vaccines in the concentration camps?

Are you for real? You're comparing covid-19 vaccinations with the torture carried out in camps like Aushwitz. That's just mind boggling that you consider that a fair comparison and doesn't deserve a reply.

If you don't want to get the covid vaccine that's your choice, but if you are prevented from going somewhere because of it then you can't complain. For example If you want to smoke you can't go into a pub or restaurant. If you don't get the vaccine you are more likely to get covid as the vaccines can't guarantee you won't get covid, so why should I or anyone else be put at risk by being in the same closed space as an unvaccinated person 

You always have a choice in terms of getting the vaccine, but there are consequences for the choice not to take it and you have to decide if you are willing to accept them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 15, 2021, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:58:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 10:42:02 AM
Lad's I'm no conspiracy theorist or Gemma O'D supporting loon, but if you think it is anyones business bar your own who is and isn't vaccinated you are f**king nuts. Fair play to all the bars and restaurants who have said they will not be asking if you are vaccinated or not.

If someone doesn't want to get a covid vaccine then that is their choice. If someone wants to make a comparison between Nazi Germany and vaccinations then they absolutely deserve to be ridiculed and called out for their ignorance.

But it's not their choice, is it? It is for now, but not much longer.

Did they not give forced vaccines in the concentration camps?

Don't know.

The Nazis did all kinds of brutal experimentation on their prisoners.

I doubt if containing disease and protecting the lives of the prisoners was one of their motivating forces.

Whereas kids all over the world have been receiving mandatory vaccines for decades as a prerequisite to attending schools. Is that type of policy fascist authoritarianism?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on July 15, 2021, 03:06:41 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 15, 2021, 01:45:35 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 15, 2021, 11:58:45 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 11:39:04 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 15, 2021, 10:58:35 AM
There is no other way out of this other than the vaccine. Restaurants stay closed without it, as does non essential retail, and sports, and probably schools. There is no other solution. So insisting that only those vaccinated can avail of these services is reasonable. Imperfect I get that, but reasonable.

I ask honestly, if you say no to the vaccine what is your solution?

Note: The governments won't allow health services to be overrun (quite rightly), so the let it rip approach isn't going to work.

I've heard that a thousand times. But it's clearly not true. Soon it will be "the top up jab is the only way out of this", then "forced vaccinations of all workers are the only way out of this", "covid passports are the only way out"..."track and trace, constant surveillance..." people will just become used to a life of constant jabs, constant scanning their QR code to buy milk and bread without giving it a seconds thought.

Ach it's only for a short time, until things get back to normal. When they say something is temporary, that means it's permanent. But as I said months ago, this isn't about fighting a virus anymore

What is your solution?

He doesn't have one.
You are perfectly entitled to not take the vaccine, I've no issue with that, however irresponsible I feel it may be.
However, as we know the vaccine helps protect against severe illness and transmission of C19 but is not 100% effective. I believe that those who are responsible enough to take the vaccine should not be exposed to risk by those of us who are being irresponsible and selfish.
I'm sure there are genuine cases out there were people are afraid of the vaccine, but the majority of people I've come across who are not going to take it are of the opinion that they are healthy and they'll be fine if they get it. These same people didn't follow restrictions and would happily ignore all social distancing regulations. Seflish, self centred behaviour which puts others at risk imo. It's equivalent to someone saying they're fine to drive after 5 pints.

The conspiracy theorists out there think the governments globally want to track us all and know what we are eating in Mickey D's and want to keep that info private. That's fine, but throw away the smart phone when you're at it and don't be a hypocrite because if you are so sensitive about what Big Brother knows about you then you need to go fully offline.

As for me, the responsible people in society who follow the science should be protected. If it takes vaccine passports to gain access to hospitality/shops/entertainment to enable that protection for the socially responsible majority then I'm all for it.
Let the selfish minority look out for themselves and don't let them put the rest of us at risk.

Well written, I agree.
If you don't want to get vaccinated, your choice.
Then have the decency not to put others at risk by going into a bar or restaurant, or to a sporting event for that matter, and dont complain about it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 15, 2021, 03:44:10 PM
Forgetting the whys and wherefores of vaccinations etc. I would like to know what is deemed as a better alternative? I have no idea what is perceived to be a(viable) way out that's not a vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 15, 2021, 04:39:49 PM
Had to laugh about all these small business, bars restaurants and cafes in the North complaining about not being open!!

Went into town on Tuesday, off for the week and took family into town for dinner, drinks, half the bars restaurants and cafes closed!!

The same places complained about the Easter closing hours ffs!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 15, 2021, 05:15:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 15, 2021, 03:44:10 PM
Forgetting the whys and wherefores of vaccinations etc. I would like to know what is deemed as a better alternative? I have no idea what is perceived to be a(viable) way out that's not a vaccine.

The UK way is to open everything up and let people get Covid by transmission.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 05:24:36 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 15, 2021, 01:45:35 PM
He doesn't have one.
You are perfectly entitled to not take the vaccine, I've no issue with that, however irresponsible I feel it may be.
However, as we know the vaccine helps protect against severe illness and transmission of C19 but is not 100% effective. I believe that those who are responsible enough to take the vaccine should not be exposed to risk by those of us who are being irresponsible and selfish.

Ive noticed a difference in how people are behaving post-vaccination. They seem to think they are now invincible and are not adhering to covid guidelines. Is that responsible? Just because someone hasn't had the vaccine, doesn't mean they aren't being responsible in terms to doing all the right things.

QuoteI'm sure there are genuine cases out there were people are afraid of the vaccine, but the majority of people I've come across who are not going to take it are of the opinion that they are healthy and they'll be fine if they get it. These same people didn't follow restrictions and would happily ignore all social distancing regulations. Seflish, self centred behaviour which puts others at risk imo. It's equivalent to someone saying they're fine to drive after 5 pints.

That's simply not true. I've heard many people stating different reasons for not being keen on vaccination, and rarely is it because they think they're not at risk. There's this narrative put out that all those against vaccinations are selfish, getting up to all sorts, adhering to no rules. You're s perfect example.

QuoteThe conspiracy theorists out there think the governments globally want to track us all and know what we are eating in Mickey D's and want to keep that info private. That's fine, but throw away the smart phone when you're at it and don't be a hypocrite because if you are so sensitive about what Big Brother knows about you then you need to go fully offline.

I am aware certain activity of ours is tracked: credit cards, mobile use, car registration,etc but these plans bring that to a whole new level.

QuoteAs for me, the responsible people in society who follow the science should be protected. If it takes vaccine passports to gain access to hospitality/shops/entertainment to enable that protection for the socially responsible majority then I'm all for it.
Let the selfish minority look out for themselves and don't let them put the rest of us at risk.

Again, just because someone isn't keen on vaccines doesn't mean they are selfish and adhering to no rules.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on July 15, 2021, 05:28:13 PM
This should be in the you cannot make it up catagory.

Re;New opening date

"Mr Varadkar said: "We're targeting Monday the 26th, really because it has to go through the Seanad, we need to allow the President time to consider the bill and what's in it, and we need to get some regulations and things like that in place."

what a fu*kin joke, it has to go thru the Seanad and allow the President to consider the bill. What the hell is he doing that President is so busy. That is Eleven days away. Pure copout for Dr T no doubt. Looks like he has learned nothing from the Dublin bye election. Hope he is kicked out on his ass in the next election.
Really, that is the ultimate insult to Restaurant and Bar owners.
Now only five weeks of summer left.
What about all the people who had booked trips to Ireland for the week of the 19th, based on the new reopening date of the 19th.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 05:34:20 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 02:20:07 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:58:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 10:42:02 AM
Lad's I'm no conspiracy theorist or Gemma O'D supporting loon, but if you think it is anyones business bar your own who is and isn't vaccinated you are f**king nuts. Fair play to all the bars and restaurants who have said they will not be asking if you are vaccinated or not.

If someone doesn't want to get a covid vaccine then that is their choice. If someone wants to make a comparison between Nazi Germany and vaccinations then they absolutely deserve to be ridiculed and called out for their ignorance.

But it's not their choice, is it? It is for now, but not much longer.

Did they not give forced vaccines in the concentration camps?

Are you for real? You're comparing covid-19 vaccinations with the torture carried out in camps like Aushwitz. That's just mind boggling that you consider that a fair comparison and doesn't deserve a reply.

If you don't want to get the covid vaccine that's your choice, but if you are prevented from going somewhere because of it then you can't complain. For example If you want to smoke you can't go into a pub or restaurant. If you don't get the vaccine you are more likely to get covid as the vaccines can't guarantee you won't get covid, so why should I or anyone else be put at risk by being in the same closed space as an unvaccinated person 

You always have a choice in terms of getting the vaccine, but there are consequences for the choice not to take it and you have to decide if you are willing to accept them

I'm asking the question. I didn't compare. Concentration camps is not something I'm interested in, but they say that forced vaccinations apparently occurred in them.

You don't have a choice though. You do for now, but eventually you will be cut off from society if you don't. Even if you wear masks, socially distance, wash hands etc, you'll still be banned from all establishments. And it will be ALL establishments. So, you DONT have a choice. That's as near to forced vaccinations as it's possible to get.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 15, 2021, 05:35:41 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/7bbd0cfc-95a9-40f1-a349-a011cb70fe31

Thus, complete relaxation of behavioural measures designed to reduce the spread of infection, before robust and sufficient levels of vaccine-induced immunity in the population have been achieved, is potentially a recipe for disaster, with the risk of negating the long-term benefits of the early UK rollout of vaccines.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 15, 2021, 05:41:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 15, 2021, 05:15:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 15, 2021, 03:44:10 PM
Forgetting the whys and wherefores of vaccinations etc. I would like to know what is deemed as a better alternative? I have no idea what is perceived to be a(viable) way out that's not a vaccine.

The UK way is to open everything up and let people get Covid by transmission.
It's f**king stupid.
It risks creating a new variant.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 15, 2021, 05:44:35 PM
Quote from: joemamas on July 15, 2021, 05:28:13 PM
This should be in the you cannot make it up catagory.

Re;New opening date

"Mr Varadkar said: "We're targeting Monday the 26th, really because it has to go through the Seanad, we need to allow the President time to consider the bill and what's in it, and we need to get some regulations and things like that in place."

what a fu*kin joke, it has to go thru the Seanad and allow the President to consider the bill. What the hell is he doing that President is so busy. That is Eleven days away. Pure copout for Dr T no doubt. Looks like he has learned nothing from the Dublin bye election. Hope he is kicked out on his ass in the next election.
Really, that is the ultimate insult to Restaurant and Bar owners.
Now only five weeks of summer left.
What about all the people who had booked trips to Ireland for the week of the 19th, based on the new reopening date of the 19th.

This is not an urgent matter, the constitution requires the President to consider bills for 5 days, so that a proper job is done. But then you have no interest in the Constitution or proper legislative procedure.

If you want to criticise anyone then criticise the government, this type of bill should have been passed months ago with a Statutory order bringing it into effect on a certain date. Making up the legislation the week before is very slack.

Quote from: seafoid on July 15, 2021, 05:35:41 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/7bbd0cfc-95a9-40f1-a349-a011cb70fe31

Thus, complete relaxation of behavioural measures designed to reduce the spread of infection, before robust and sufficient levels of vaccine-induced immunity in the population have been achieved, is potentially a recipe for disaster, with the risk of negating the long-term benefits of the early UK rollout of vaccines.

Numbers of cases have doubled in NI in 3 days and it isn't even going to let rip.
While cases are less serious now, you end up with a big difference if you have a 1.5 times increase instead of a doubling.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 15, 2021, 06:00:35 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 05:24:36 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 15, 2021, 01:45:35 PM
He doesn't have one.
You are perfectly entitled to not take the vaccine, I've no issue with that, however irresponsible I feel it may be.
However, as we know the vaccine helps protect against severe illness and transmission of C19 but is not 100% effective. I believe that those who are responsible enough to take the vaccine should not be exposed to risk by those of us who are being irresponsible and selfish.

Ive noticed a difference in how people are behaving post-vaccination. They seem to think they are now invincible and are not adhering to covid guidelines. Is that responsible? Just because someone hasn't had the vaccine, doesn't mean they aren't being responsible in terms to doing all the right things.


My experience would be the opposite. Those single or double jabbed are still adhering to the guidelines ie doing their bit. It's the folk who haven't wore masks, partied etc that are continuing to live their best free lives and enabling this virus's spread and ability to mutate

'Cut off from society' , 'imagined variants' etc etc etc... Not near wise

What's your alternative to the vaccine BTW? Maybe you answered and I missed it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 15, 2021, 06:02:20 PM

https://www.ft.com/content/012afde2-a7d7-4e52-8937-4ddf973ebc18
In some rich countries, deaths from Covid-19 have become concentrated among unjabbed anti-vaxxers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 15, 2021, 06:14:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 15, 2021, 06:02:20 PM

https://www.ft.com/content/012afde2-a7d7-4e52-8937-4ddf973ebc18
In some rich countries, deaths from Covid-19 have become concentrated among unjabbed anti-vaxxers.

Darwinian mechanism.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 15, 2021, 07:07:16 PM
994 cases in the 26 today
Over 1,000 in the 6.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tiempo on July 15, 2021, 07:15:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 15, 2021, 06:14:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 15, 2021, 06:02:20 PM

https://www.ft.com/content/012afde2-a7d7-4e52-8937-4ddf973ebc18
In some rich countries, deaths from Covid-19 have become concentrated among unjabbed anti-vaxxers.

Darwinian mechanism.

Sucks for them that Darwin didn't postulate survival of the cuntish.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on July 15, 2021, 07:17:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 15, 2021, 07:07:16 PM
994 cases in the 26 today
Over 1,000 in the 6.
As was predicted over a week ago by Government. The "spiral of fear" they warned against hasn't been heeded by the national media, no surprise there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 15, 2021, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 15, 2021, 07:17:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 15, 2021, 07:07:16 PM
994 cases in the 26 today
Over 1,000 in the 6.
As was predicted over a week ago by Government. The "spiral of fear" they warned against hasn't been heeded by the national media, no surprise there.

How many are hospitalised?

Friend double vaccinated got a cough, tested and positive, no other issues.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tiempo on July 15, 2021, 07:36:32 PM
Got a pal who got it, is double vaccinated, and got it again. Its biochemical/physiolocigal Russian roulette, there won't be a silver bullet fix. Predicting Boris' let it rip strategy will be a fuckup, time will tell
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 15, 2021, 07:39:27 PM
Jaysus over a k up here. I blame those pesky southerners coming up here because they're allowed to do nothing ;D

On a serious note that's not good. Thankfully not into hospital rates just yet but they are growing. A couple of weeks will tell the tale on whether they transition into things like ICU cases which thankfully are still low.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on July 15, 2021, 07:51:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 15, 2021, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 15, 2021, 07:17:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 15, 2021, 07:07:16 PM
994 cases in the 26 today
Over 1,000 in the 6.
As was predicted over a week ago by Government. The "spiral of fear" they warned against hasn't been heeded by the national media, no surprise there.

How many are hospitalised?

Friend double vaccinated got a cough, tested and positive, no other issues.
80 total in hospital. 22 in ICU.

Quote from: tiempo on July 15, 2021, 07:36:32 PM
Got a pal who got it, is double vaccinated, and got it again. Its biochemical/physiolocigal Russian roulette, there won't be a silver bullet fix. Predicting Boris' let it rip strategy will be a fuckup, time will tell

Double vaccinated people getting the virus now will mostly only get a mild illness or none at all. England have a good portion of the most vulnerable vaccinated so hardly letting it rip it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on July 15, 2021, 08:12:47 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 05:24:36 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 15, 2021, 01:45:35 PM
He doesn't have one.
You are perfectly entitled to not take the vaccine, I've no issue with that, however irresponsible I feel it may be.
However, as we know the vaccine helps protect against severe illness and transmission of C19 but is not 100% effective. I believe that those who are responsible enough to take the vaccine should not be exposed to risk by those of us who are being irresponsible and selfish.

Ive noticed a difference in how people are behaving post-vaccination. They seem to think they are now invincible and are not adhering to covid guidelines. Is that responsible? Just because someone hasn't had the vaccine, doesn't mean they aren't being responsible in terms to doing all the right things.

QuoteI'm sure there are genuine cases out there were people are afraid of the vaccine, but the majority of people I've come across who are not going to take it are of the opinion that they are healthy and they'll be fine if they get it. These same people didn't follow restrictions and would happily ignore all social distancing regulations. Seflish, self centred behaviour which puts others at risk imo. It's equivalent to someone saying they're fine to drive after 5 pints.

That's simply not true. I've heard many people stating different reasons for not being keen on vaccination, and rarely is it because they think they're not at risk. There's this narrative put out that all those against vaccinations are selfish, getting up to all sorts, adhering to no rules. You're s perfect example.

QuoteThe conspiracy theorists out there think the governments globally want to track us all and know what we are eating in Mickey D's and want to keep that info private. That's fine, but throw away the smart phone when you're at it and don't be a hypocrite because if you are so sensitive about what Big Brother knows about you then you need to go fully offline.

I am aware certain activity of ours is tracked: credit cards, mobile use, car registration,etc but these plans bring that to a whole new level.

QuoteAs for me, the responsible people in society who follow the science should be protected. If it takes vaccine passports to gain access to hospitality/shops/entertainment to enable that protection for the socially responsible majority then I'm all for it.
Let the selfish minority look out for themselves and don't let them put the rest of us at risk.

Again, just because someone isn't keen on vaccines doesn't mean they are selfish and adhering to no rules.

You are right when you say there is a difference in people's behaviour post-vaccination. I for one am now going into my parents house, where I didn't previously. They and I feel more confident in doing this, however, I still wear a mask and sanitise my hands when i go into a shop. To push the point though, the fact that people who are double vaccinated are less likely to become seriously ill AND less likely to carry and spread C19 means it is reasonable to expect that those same people should be able to interact more with other people who have also been double vaccinated. It means the likelihood of spreading or catching the virus is as minimal as it can be. So I think it is reasonable that people who are double vaccinated can behave somewhat more liberally and that is, after all, the reason why restrictions are being eased.

If you read my post again, you will see I said "the majority of people I've come across who are not going to take it are of the opinion that they are healthy and they'll be fine if they get it. These same people didn't follow restrictions and would happily ignore all social distancing regulations."
I basing an opinion on my own personal experience, so I can assure you it is true. I'll admit, not true for all, but it is still true.

What is the issue with a whole new level of tracking? Most CCTV cameras these days have facial recognition software and most Wifi access points can track your movements based on where your mobile phone is. I think that is more invasive than a covid vaccination passport. Like it or not, that is the world we live in....we are constantly being tracked but generally for legitimate purposes (like traffic management, town planning, security, spending habits etc).

People who refuse the vaccine as they are healthy and don't need it are generally the same people up in arms about covid passports. They can't have it all ways.
They won't be able to travel to other countries (rightly so if not vaccinated and I wouldn't want un-vaccinated people entering this country) and they should not be afforded the liberties of those who have been vaccinated. The reason for not being vaccinated is irrelevant really.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 05:34:20 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 02:20:07 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:58:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 10:42:02 AM
Lad's I'm no conspiracy theorist or Gemma O'D supporting loon, but if you think it is anyones business bar your own who is and isn't vaccinated you are f**king nuts. Fair play to all the bars and restaurants who have said they will not be asking if you are vaccinated or not.

If someone doesn't want to get a covid vaccine then that is their choice. If someone wants to make a comparison between Nazi Germany and vaccinations then they absolutely deserve to be ridiculed and called out for their ignorance.

But it's not their choice, is it? It is for now, but not much longer.

Did they not give forced vaccines in the concentration camps?

Are you for real? You're comparing covid-19 vaccinations with the torture carried out in camps like Aushwitz. That's just mind boggling that you consider that a fair comparison and doesn't deserve a reply.

If you don't want to get the covid vaccine that's your choice, but if you are prevented from going somewhere because of it then you can't complain. For example If you want to smoke you can't go into a pub or restaurant. If you don't get the vaccine you are more likely to get covid as the vaccines can't guarantee you won't get covid, so why should I or anyone else be put at risk by being in the same closed space as an unvaccinated person 

You always have a choice in terms of getting the vaccine, but there are consequences for the choice not to take it and you have to decide if you are willing to accept them

I'm asking the question. I didn't compare. Concentration camps is not something I'm interested in, but they say that forced vaccinations apparently occurred in them.

You don't have a choice though. You do for now, but eventually you will be cut off from society if you don't. Even if you wear masks, socially distance, wash hands etc, you'll still be banned from all establishments. And it will be ALL establishments. So, you DONT have a choice. That's as near to forced vaccinations as it's possible to get.

Seriously lad cop the f**k on. I've been to Aushwitz, have you? If you don't want the vaccine, then that's on you. But to bring in the f**king Nazis to any argument should tell you you've already lost the argument.

All I'll say is grow up, cop on and visit Aushwitz. Then maybe you'll realize what real forced hell is like
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 15, 2021, 08:49:32 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 15, 2021, 07:07:16 PM
994 cases in the 26 today
Over 1,000 in the 6.
UK had 5k on 12 June and 35K on 12 July.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:03:21 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 15, 2021, 08:12:47 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 05:24:36 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 15, 2021, 01:45:35 PM
He doesn't have one.
You are perfectly entitled to not take the vaccine, I've no issue with that, however irresponsible I feel it may be.
However, as we know the vaccine helps protect against severe illness and transmission of C19 but is not 100% effective. I believe that those who are responsible enough to take the vaccine should not be exposed to risk by those of us who are being irresponsible and selfish.

Ive noticed a difference in how people are behaving post-vaccination. They seem to think they are now invincible and are not adhering to covid guidelines. Is that responsible? Just because someone hasn't had the vaccine, doesn't mean they aren't being responsible in terms to doing all the right things.

QuoteI'm sure there are genuine cases out there were people are afraid of the vaccine, but the majority of people I've come across who are not going to take it are of the opinion that they are healthy and they'll be fine if they get it. These same people didn't follow restrictions and would happily ignore all social distancing regulations. Seflish, self centred behaviour which puts others at risk imo. It's equivalent to someone saying they're fine to drive after 5 pints.

That's simply not true. I've heard many people stating different reasons for not being keen on vaccination, and rarely is it because they think they're not at risk. There's this narrative put out that all those against vaccinations are selfish, getting up to all sorts, adhering to no rules. You're s perfect example.

QuoteThe conspiracy theorists out there think the governments globally want to track us all and know what we are eating in Mickey D's and want to keep that info private. That's fine, but throw away the smart phone when you're at it and don't be a hypocrite because if you are so sensitive about what Big Brother knows about you then you need to go fully offline.

I am aware certain activity of ours is tracked: credit cards, mobile use, car registration,etc but these plans bring that to a whole new level.

QuoteAs for me, the responsible people in society who follow the science should be protected. If it takes vaccine passports to gain access to hospitality/shops/entertainment to enable that protection for the socially responsible majority then I'm all for it.
Let the selfish minority look out for themselves and don't let them put the rest of us at risk.

Again, just because someone isn't keen on vaccines doesn't mean they are selfish and adhering to no rules.

You are right when you say there is a difference in people's behaviour post-vaccination. I for one am now going into my parents house, where I didn't previously. They and I feel more confident in doing this, however, I still wear a mask and sanitise my hands when i go into a shop. To push the point though, the fact that people who are double vaccinated are less likely to become seriously ill AND less likely to carry and spread C19 means it is reasonable to expect that those same people should be able to interact more with other people who have also been double vaccinated. It means the likelihood of spreading or catching the virus is as minimal as it can be. So I think it is reasonable that people who are double vaccinated can behave somewhat more liberally and that is, after all, the reason why restrictions are being eased.

If you read my post again, you will see I said "the majority of people I've come across who are not going to take it are of the opinion that they are healthy and they'll be fine if they get it. These same people didn't follow restrictions and would happily ignore all social distancing regulations."
I basing an opinion on my own personal experience, so I can assure you it is true. I'll admit, not true for all, but it is still true.

What is the issue with a whole new level of tracking? Most CCTV cameras these days have facial recognition software and most Wifi access points can track your movements based on where your mobile phone is. I think that is more invasive than a covid vaccination passport. Like it or not, that is the world we live in....we are constantly being tracked but generally for legitimate purposes (like traffic management, town planning, security, spending habits etc).

People who refuse the vaccine as they are healthy and don't need it are generally the same people up in arms about covid passports. They can't have it all ways.
They won't be able to travel to other countries (rightly so if not vaccinated and I wouldn't want un-vaccinated people entering this country) and they should not be afforded the liberties of those who have been vaccinated. The reason for not being vaccinated is irrelevant really.

Why not wear a mask/sanitise hands when visiting your parents though? Why just the shop? That's my point regarding changing of behaviour of those vaccinated. They say vaccines reduce transmission/seriousness of covid, but you do more for shoppers than your parents? Why? Is it because it's become customary for shoppers to wear masks? But ach sure I'll be alright popping round to the folks?

Why should vaccinated people behave more liberally and flaunt the rules? Aren't we all in this together? Or so they keep telling us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:07:23 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 05:34:20 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 02:20:07 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:58:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 10:42:02 AM
Lad's I'm no conspiracy theorist or Gemma O'D supporting loon, but if you think it is anyones business bar your own who is and isn't vaccinated you are f**king nuts. Fair play to all the bars and restaurants who have said they will not be asking if you are vaccinated or not.

If someone doesn't want to get a covid vaccine then that is their choice. If someone wants to make a comparison between Nazi Germany and vaccinations then they absolutely deserve to be ridiculed and called out for their ignorance.

But it's not their choice, is it? It is for now, but not much longer.

Did they not give forced vaccines in the concentration camps?

Are you for real? You're comparing covid-19 vaccinations with the torture carried out in camps like Aushwitz. That's just mind boggling that you consider that a fair comparison and doesn't deserve a reply.

If you don't want to get the covid vaccine that's your choice, but if you are prevented from going somewhere because of it then you can't complain. For example If you want to smoke you can't go into a pub or restaurant. If you don't get the vaccine you are more likely to get covid as the vaccines can't guarantee you won't get covid, so why should I or anyone else be put at risk by being in the same closed space as an unvaccinated person 

You always have a choice in terms of getting the vaccine, but there are consequences for the choice not to take it and you have to decide if you are willing to accept them

I'm asking the question. I didn't compare. Concentration camps is not something I'm interested in, but they say that forced vaccinations apparently occurred in them.

You don't have a choice though. You do for now, but eventually you will be cut off from society if you don't. Even if you wear masks, socially distance, wash hands etc, you'll still be banned from all establishments. And it will be ALL establishments. So, you DONT have a choice. That's as near to forced vaccinations as it's possible to get.

Seriously lad cop the f**k on. I've been to Aushwitz, have you? If you don't want the vaccine, then that's on you. But to bring in the f**king Nazis to any argument should tell you you've already lost the argument.

All I'll say is grow up, cop on and visit Aushwitz. Then maybe you'll realize what real forced hell is like

No I havent been. I told you, it doesn't interest me, so why would I? And I didn't bring the nazis into the argument. I asked a question about the camps.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 15, 2021, 09:09:26 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:03:21 PM
Why not wear a mask/sanitise hands when visiting your parents though? Why just the shop? That's my point regarding changing of behaviour of those vaccinated. They say vaccines reduce transmission/seriousness of covid, but you do more for shoppers than your parents? Why? Is it because it's become customary for shoppers to wear masks? But ach sure I'll be alright popping round to the folks?

Why should vaccinated people behave more liberally and flaunt the rules? Aren't we all in this together? Or so they keep telling us.

The purpose of vaccination is to allow relaxation of the regulations. TBrick knows his parents are vaccinated and are not casual about Covid, their house probably had none or only one other visitor. A shop has people in and out and many of these are not vaccinated. If we could be sure everyone was vaccinated then we wouldn't need the masks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 15, 2021, 09:11:04 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:07:23 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 05:34:20 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 02:20:07 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:58:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 10:42:02 AM
Lad's I'm no conspiracy theorist or Gemma O'D supporting loon, but if you think it is anyones business bar your own who is and isn't vaccinated you are f**king nuts. Fair play to all the bars and restaurants who have said they will not be asking if you are vaccinated or not.

If someone doesn't want to get a covid vaccine then that is their choice. If someone wants to make a comparison between Nazi Germany and vaccinations then they absolutely deserve to be ridiculed and called out for their ignorance.

But it's not their choice, is it? It is for now, but not much longer.

Did they not give forced vaccines in the concentration camps?

Are you for real? You're comparing covid-19 vaccinations with the torture carried out in camps like Aushwitz. That's just mind boggling that you consider that a fair comparison and doesn't deserve a reply.

If you don't want to get the covid vaccine that's your choice, but if you are prevented from going somewhere because of it then you can't complain. For example If you want to smoke you can't go into a pub or restaurant. If you don't get the vaccine you are more likely to get covid as the vaccines can't guarantee you won't get covid, so why should I or anyone else be put at risk by being in the same closed space as an unvaccinated person 

You always have a choice in terms of getting the vaccine, but there are consequences for the choice not to take it and you have to decide if you are willing to accept them

I'm asking the question. I didn't compare. Concentration camps is not something I'm interested in, but they say that forced vaccinations apparently occurred in them.

You don't have a choice though. You do for now, but eventually you will be cut off from society if you don't. Even if you wear masks, socially distance, wash hands etc, you'll still be banned from all establishments. And it will be ALL establishments. So, you DONT have a choice. That's as near to forced vaccinations as it's possible to get.

Seriously lad cop the f**k on. I've been to Aushwitz, have you? If you don't want the vaccine, then that's on you. But to bring in the f**king Nazis to any argument should tell you you've already lost the argument.

All I'll say is grow up, cop on and visit Aushwitz. Then maybe you'll realize what real forced hell is like

No I havent been. I told you, it doesn't interest me, so why would I? And I didn't bring the nazis into the argument. I asked a question about the camps.

"welcome to Nazi Germany". Take a break from Internet Benny, you need it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 15, 2021, 09:15:29 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:07:23 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 05:34:20 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 02:20:07 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:58:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 10:42:02 AM
Lad's I'm no conspiracy theorist or Gemma O'D supporting loon, but if you think it is anyones business bar your own who is and isn't vaccinated you are f**king nuts. Fair play to all the bars and restaurants who have said they will not be asking if you are vaccinated or not.

If someone doesn't want to get a covid vaccine then that is their choice. If someone wants to make a comparison between Nazi Germany and vaccinations then they absolutely deserve to be ridiculed and called out for their ignorance.

But it's not their choice, is it? It is for now, but not much longer.

Did they not give forced vaccines in the concentration camps?

Are you for real? You're comparing covid-19 vaccinations with the torture carried out in camps like Aushwitz. That's just mind boggling that you consider that a fair comparison and doesn't deserve a reply.

If you don't want to get the covid vaccine that's your choice, but if you are prevented from going somewhere because of it then you can't complain. For example If you want to smoke you can't go into a pub or restaurant. If you don't get the vaccine you are more likely to get covid as the vaccines can't guarantee you won't get covid, so why should I or anyone else be put at risk by being in the same closed space as an unvaccinated person 

You always have a choice in terms of getting the vaccine, but there are consequences for the choice not to take it and you have to decide if you are willing to accept them

I'm asking the question. I didn't compare. Concentration camps is not something I'm interested in, but they say that forced vaccinations apparently occurred in them.

You don't have a choice though. You do for now, but eventually you will be cut off from society if you don't. Even if you wear masks, socially distance, wash hands etc, you'll still be banned from all establishments. And it will be ALL establishments. So, you DONT have a choice. That's as near to forced vaccinations as it's possible to get.

Seriously lad cop the f**k on. I've been to Aushwitz, have you? If you don't want the vaccine, then that's on you. But to bring in the f**king Nazis to any argument should tell you you've already lost the argument.

All I'll say is grow up, cop on and visit Aushwitz. Then maybe you'll realize what real forced hell is like

No I havent been. I told you, it doesn't interest me, so why would I? And I didn't bring the nazis into the argument. I asked a question about the camps.

Serious backtracking going on Benny.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on July 15, 2021, 09:23:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:07:23 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 05:34:20 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 02:20:07 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:58:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 10:42:02 AM
Lad's I'm no conspiracy theorist or Gemma O'D supporting loon, but if you think it is anyones business bar your own who is and isn't vaccinated you are f**king nuts. Fair play to all the bars and restaurants who have said they will not be asking if you are vaccinated or not.

If someone doesn't want to get a covid vaccine then that is their choice. If someone wants to make a comparison between Nazi Germany and vaccinations then they absolutely deserve to be ridiculed and called out for their ignorance.

But it's not their choice, is it? It is for now, but not much longer.

Did they not give forced vaccines in the concentration camps?

Are you for real? You're comparing covid-19 vaccinations with the torture carried out in camps like Aushwitz. That's just mind boggling that you consider that a fair comparison and doesn't deserve a reply.

If you don't want to get the covid vaccine that's your choice, but if you are prevented from going somewhere because of it then you can't complain. For example If you want to smoke you can't go into a pub or restaurant. If you don't get the vaccine you are more likely to get covid as the vaccines can't guarantee you won't get covid, so why should I or anyone else be put at risk by being in the same closed space as an unvaccinated person 

You always have a choice in terms of getting the vaccine, but there are consequences for the choice not to take it and you have to decide if you are willing to accept them

I'm asking the question. I didn't compare. Concentration camps is not something I'm interested in, but they say that forced vaccinations apparently occurred in them.

You don't have a choice though. You do for now, but eventually you will be cut off from society if you don't. Even if you wear masks, socially distance, wash hands etc, you'll still be banned from all establishments. And it will be ALL establishments. So, you DONT have a choice. That's as near to forced vaccinations as it's possible to get.

Seriously lad cop the f**k on. I've been to Aushwitz, have you? If you don't want the vaccine, then that's on you. But to bring in the f**king Nazis to any argument should tell you you've already lost the argument.

All I'll say is grow up, cop on and visit Aushwitz. Then maybe you'll realize what real forced hell is like

No I havent been. I told you, it doesn't interest me, so why would I? And I didn't bring the nazis into the argument. I asked a question about the camps.

You should go, you might actually learn something.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:31:00 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 15, 2021, 09:11:04 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:07:23 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 05:34:20 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 02:20:07 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:58:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 10:42:02 AM
Lad's I'm no conspiracy theorist or Gemma O'D supporting loon, but if you think it is anyones business bar your own who is and isn't vaccinated you are f**king nuts. Fair play to all the bars and restaurants who have said they will not be asking if you are vaccinated or not.

If someone doesn't want to get a covid vaccine then that is their choice. If someone wants to make a comparison between Nazi Germany and vaccinations then they absolutely deserve to be ridiculed and called out for their ignorance.

But it's not their choice, is it? It is for now, but not much longer.

Did they not give forced vaccines in the concentration camps?

Are you for real? You're comparing covid-19 vaccinations with the torture carried out in camps like Aushwitz. That's just mind boggling that you consider that a fair comparison and doesn't deserve a reply.

If you don't want to get the covid vaccine that's your choice, but if you are prevented from going somewhere because of it then you can't complain. For example If you want to smoke you can't go into a pub or restaurant. If you don't get the vaccine you are more likely to get covid as the vaccines can't guarantee you won't get covid, so why should I or anyone else be put at risk by being in the same closed space as an unvaccinated person 

You always have a choice in terms of getting the vaccine, but there are consequences for the choice not to take it and you have to decide if you are willing to accept them

I'm asking the question. I didn't compare. Concentration camps is not something I'm interested in, but they say that forced vaccinations apparently occurred in them.

You don't have a choice though. You do for now, but eventually you will be cut off from society if you don't. Even if you wear masks, socially distance, wash hands etc, you'll still be banned from all establishments. And it will be ALL establishments. So, you DONT have a choice. That's as near to forced vaccinations as it's possible to get.

Seriously lad cop the f**k on. I've been to Aushwitz, have you? If you don't want the vaccine, then that's on you. But to bring in the f**king Nazis to any argument should tell you you've already lost the argument.

All I'll say is grow up, cop on and visit Aushwitz. Then maybe you'll realize what real forced hell is like

No I havent been. I told you, it doesn't interest me, so why would I? And I didn't bring the nazis into the argument. I asked a question about the camps.

"welcome to Nazi Germany". Take a break from Internet Benny, you need it.

Yes, I was pointing out the similarities to Ireland's new apartheid laws.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:33:23 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on July 15, 2021, 09:23:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:07:23 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 08:40:55 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 05:34:20 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 02:20:07 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 10:58:16 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 15, 2021, 10:52:27 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 15, 2021, 10:42:02 AM
Lad's I'm no conspiracy theorist or Gemma O'D supporting loon, but if you think it is anyones business bar your own who is and isn't vaccinated you are f**king nuts. Fair play to all the bars and restaurants who have said they will not be asking if you are vaccinated or not.

If someone doesn't want to get a covid vaccine then that is their choice. If someone wants to make a comparison between Nazi Germany and vaccinations then they absolutely deserve to be ridiculed and called out for their ignorance.

But it's not their choice, is it? It is for now, but not much longer.

Did they not give forced vaccines in the concentration camps?

Are you for real? You're comparing covid-19 vaccinations with the torture carried out in camps like Aushwitz. That's just mind boggling that you consider that a fair comparison and doesn't deserve a reply.

If you don't want to get the covid vaccine that's your choice, but if you are prevented from going somewhere because of it then you can't complain. For example If you want to smoke you can't go into a pub or restaurant. If you don't get the vaccine you are more likely to get covid as the vaccines can't guarantee you won't get covid, so why should I or anyone else be put at risk by being in the same closed space as an unvaccinated person 

You always have a choice in terms of getting the vaccine, but there are consequences for the choice not to take it and you have to decide if you are willing to accept them

I'm asking the question. I didn't compare. Concentration camps is not something I'm interested in, but they say that forced vaccinations apparently occurred in them.

You don't have a choice though. You do for now, but eventually you will be cut off from society if you don't. Even if you wear masks, socially distance, wash hands etc, you'll still be banned from all establishments. And it will be ALL establishments. So, you DONT have a choice. That's as near to forced vaccinations as it's possible to get.

Seriously lad cop the f**k on. I've been to Aushwitz, have you? If you don't want the vaccine, then that's on you. But to bring in the f**king Nazis to any argument should tell you you've already lost the argument.

All I'll say is grow up, cop on and visit Aushwitz. Then maybe you'll realize what real forced hell is like

No I havent been. I told you, it doesn't interest me, so why would I? And I didn't bring the nazis into the argument. I asked a question about the camps.

You should go, you might actually learn something.

Nah, you're alright.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 15, 2021, 09:44:37 PM
Take a day off Benny
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 15, 2021, 09:47:17 PM
Benny we've rules for everything, over 18 to get into bars, over 21 for other bars..

Passports to get into countries and visas plus passport to get into other's countries, and visas passports and vaccines to get into other countries

We've vaccinated our kids and we've all been vaccinated as youngsters

We are constantly following rules, this current rule will help those small businesses that you are so worried about

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:50:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 15, 2021, 09:47:17 PM
Benny we've rules for everything, over 18 to get into bars, over 21 for other bars..

Passports to get into countries and visas plus passport to get into other's countries, and visas passports and vaccines to get into other countries

We've vaccinated our kids and we've all been vaccinated as youngsters

We are constantly following rules, this current rule will help those small businesses that you are so worried about

We'll see.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tiempo on July 15, 2021, 10:51:10 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 15, 2021, 07:51:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 15, 2021, 07:26:21 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 15, 2021, 07:17:51 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 15, 2021, 07:07:16 PM
994 cases in the 26 today
Over 1,000 in the 6.
As was predicted over a week ago by Government. The "spiral of fear" they warned against hasn't been heeded by the national media, no surprise there.

How many are hospitalised?

Friend double vaccinated got a cough, tested and positive, no other issues.
80 total in hospital. 22 in ICU.

Quote from: tiempo on July 15, 2021, 07:36:32 PM
Got a pal who got it, is double vaccinated, and got it again. Its biochemical/physiolocigal Russian roulette, there won't be a silver bullet fix. Predicting Boris' let it rip strategy will be a fuckup, time will tell

Double vaccinated people getting the virus now will mostly only get a mild illness or none at all. England have a good portion of the most vulnerable vaccinated so hardly letting it rip it.

Boris is actively facilitating a mass spike in cases to get his desired herd immunity, what he wanted from the outset, to the extent its back to normal life from Monday, no stampzies no tangles no f**k all, very much letting it rip
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 15, 2021, 10:57:06 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:50:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 15, 2021, 09:47:17 PM
Benny we've rules for everything, over 18 to get into bars, over 21 for other bars..

Passports to get into countries and visas plus passport to get into other's countries, and visas passports and vaccines to get into other countries

We've vaccinated our kids and we've all been vaccinated as youngsters

We are constantly following rules, this current rule will help those small businesses that you are so worried about

We'll see.

So the current situation is better?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 16, 2021, 06:34:49 AM
https://www.ft.com/content/6554dc23-3a0e-4bf1-a477-dabd5867d4cd

Pub groups including Greene King — which operates 2,700 pubs across the UK — said they would return to allowing customers to order at the bar and would drop social distancing arrangements as they look to maximise sales after being closed for the majority of the past year.



"With confirmation from the government that restrictions will be relaxed on 19 July, we can finally look forward to getting back to what we do best," said Greene King. Humphrey Cobbold, chief executive of the gym group PureGym, said masks would be optional



According to a survey by the Night Time Industries Association, 83 per cent of nightlife venues will not require customers to show a "Covid passport" upon entry despite the government's recommendation that they do so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 16, 2021, 07:09:23 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2021, 06:34:49 AM
https://www.ft.com/content/6554dc23-3a0e-4bf1-a477-dabd5867d4cd

Pub groups including Greene King — which operates 2,700 pubs across the UK — said they would return to allowing customers to order at the bar and would drop social distancing arrangements as they look to maximise sales after being closed for the majority of the past year.



"With confirmation from the government that restrictions will be relaxed on 19 July, we can finally look forward to getting back to what we do best," said Greene King. Humphrey Cobbold, chief executive of the gym group PureGym, said masks would be optional



According to a survey by the Night Time Industries Association, 83 per cent of nightlife venues will not require customers to show a "Covid passport" upon entry despite the government's recommendation that they do so.
Things you love to see
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 16, 2021, 08:06:13 AM
France is 5 weeks behind the UK. Ireland is probably closer because of the interface with the Occupied Territories. 

22 June
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/rapid-rise-in-coronavirus-delta-variant-in-ireland-over-past-week-to-be-discussed-at-cabinet-1.4599743
A further 284 confirmed cases of the virus were reported in the Republic yesterday. A total 53 people are being treated in hospital for the disease with 13 in intensive care

16/7
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-significant-acceleration-in-spread-as-994-cases-reported-in-state-1.4621441
Covid-19: 'Significant acceleration' in spread as 994 cases reported in State
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 16, 2021, 08:55:12 AM
 The fact remains that the number of fully vaccinated people presenting to hospital remains low. At this stages cases are not a good metric. The vast majority of cases now occur in the under 39 age group and unvaccinated.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2021, 09:05:59 AM
So the mate who is positive after being double jabbed, the coughing symptom that brought it to his attention, it's gone, he'd a golfing trip and afters party, all ones at it were negative after being pinged having had to have tests, his wife is also negative, but the inconvenience to those lads means 10 day isolation!

So the policy needs looked at in these types of cases, if double jabbed and working with people vaccinated then life can go on, I can understand if there's interaction with non vaccinated people, that's why the more who get it we can open up more.

But we seemed to be half in half out, was overhearing a conversation at a restaurant yesterday in Dublin, barman double jabbed, one customer also telling him she's double jabbed, her dinner date turned up and the conversation was still on about vaccination, he's been jabbed once but cancelled the other one! Why bother getting jabbed at all?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 16, 2021, 09:41:51 AM
The risk with a 4th variant before vaccination has been completed is the development of a new variant that is resistant to vaccination.
Unlike the Wuhan variant , Delta is strong in summer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on July 16, 2021, 10:04:43 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:03:21 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 15, 2021, 08:12:47 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 05:24:36 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 15, 2021, 01:45:35 PM
He doesn't have one.
You are perfectly entitled to not take the vaccine, I've no issue with that, however irresponsible I feel it may be.
However, as we know the vaccine helps protect against severe illness and transmission of C19 but is not 100% effective. I believe that those who are responsible enough to take the vaccine should not be exposed to risk by those of us who are being irresponsible and selfish.

Ive noticed a difference in how people are behaving post-vaccination. They seem to think they are now invincible and are not adhering to covid guidelines. Is that responsible? Just because someone hasn't had the vaccine, doesn't mean they aren't being responsible in terms to doing all the right things.

QuoteI'm sure there are genuine cases out there were people are afraid of the vaccine, but the majority of people I've come across who are not going to take it are of the opinion that they are healthy and they'll be fine if they get it. These same people didn't follow restrictions and would happily ignore all social distancing regulations. Seflish, self centred behaviour which puts others at risk imo. It's equivalent to someone saying they're fine to drive after 5 pints.

That's simply not true. I've heard many people stating different reasons for not being keen on vaccination, and rarely is it because they think they're not at risk. There's this narrative put out that all those against vaccinations are selfish, getting up to all sorts, adhering to no rules. You're s perfect example.

QuoteThe conspiracy theorists out there think the governments globally want to track us all and know what we are eating in Mickey D's and want to keep that info private. That's fine, but throw away the smart phone when you're at it and don't be a hypocrite because if you are so sensitive about what Big Brother knows about you then you need to go fully offline.

I am aware certain activity of ours is tracked: credit cards, mobile use, car registration,etc but these plans bring that to a whole new level.

QuoteAs for me, the responsible people in society who follow the science should be protected. If it takes vaccine passports to gain access to hospitality/shops/entertainment to enable that protection for the socially responsible majority then I'm all for it.
Let the selfish minority look out for themselves and don't let them put the rest of us at risk.

Again, just because someone isn't keen on vaccines doesn't mean they are selfish and adhering to no rules.

You are right when you say there is a difference in people's behaviour post-vaccination. I for one am now going into my parents house, where I didn't previously. They and I feel more confident in doing this, however, I still wear a mask and sanitise my hands when i go into a shop. To push the point though, the fact that people who are double vaccinated are less likely to become seriously ill AND less likely to carry and spread C19 means it is reasonable to expect that those same people should be able to interact more with other people who have also been double vaccinated. It means the likelihood of spreading or catching the virus is as minimal as it can be. So I think it is reasonable that people who are double vaccinated can behave somewhat more liberally and that is, after all, the reason why restrictions are being eased.

If you read my post again, you will see I said "the majority of people I've come across who are not going to take it are of the opinion that they are healthy and they'll be fine if they get it. These same people didn't follow restrictions and would happily ignore all social distancing regulations."
I basing an opinion on my own personal experience, so I can assure you it is true. I'll admit, not true for all, but it is still true.

What is the issue with a whole new level of tracking? Most CCTV cameras these days have facial recognition software and most Wifi access points can track your movements based on where your mobile phone is. I think that is more invasive than a covid vaccination passport. Like it or not, that is the world we live in....we are constantly being tracked but generally for legitimate purposes (like traffic management, town planning, security, spending habits etc).

People who refuse the vaccine as they are healthy and don't need it are generally the same people up in arms about covid passports. They can't have it all ways.
They won't be able to travel to other countries (rightly so if not vaccinated and I wouldn't want un-vaccinated people entering this country) and they should not be afforded the liberties of those who have been vaccinated. The reason for not being vaccinated is irrelevant really.

Why not wear a mask/sanitise hands when visiting your parents though? Why just the shop? That's my point regarding changing of behaviour of those vaccinated. They say vaccines reduce transmission/seriousness of covid, but you do more for shoppers than your parents? Why? Is it because it's become customary for shoppers to wear masks? But ach sure I'll be alright popping round to the folks?

Why should vaccinated people behave more liberally and flaunt the rules? Aren't we all in this together? Or so they keep telling us.

They've been double vaccinated....and I've been double vaccinated. Which means the risk of transmission is as low as it can be especially as we still sanitise and wear masks when out and about. I thought that would be obvious from what I had written, that it is possible to behave differently given those circumstances.
We are still socially distanced in the house.
We still follow the regulations about visitors etc.
That's the responsible part.

As you say, we are all supposed to be in this together....so everyone should get vaccinated not only to protect themselves but to protect other people in society who may be more vulnerable. That's what being in this together is about  - not about permitting those socially irresponsible people do what they want whilst the rest of us suffer as a result.
If we'd 100% vaccination rate (however unlikely that figure may be), the risk of transmission is very low so everyone could behave in a more liberal way.  Vaccine passports, as I see them, are an enabler to getting us back to as close to "normal" as possible in as safe a way as possible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on July 16, 2021, 10:58:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 15, 2021, 05:41:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 15, 2021, 05:15:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 15, 2021, 03:44:10 PM
Forgetting the whys and wherefores of vaccinations etc. I would like to know what is deemed as a better alternative? I have no idea what is perceived to be a(viable) way out that's not a vaccine.

The UK way is to open everything up and let people get Covid by transmission.
It's f**king stupid.
It risks creating a new variant.

Exactly and then we run the further risk of current vaccinations not working on any new strains...

It's a big gamble and it looks like its being taken to give the hospitality sector a chance of getting some money in before the winter hits.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 16, 2021, 11:04:23 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 16, 2021, 10:58:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 15, 2021, 05:41:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 15, 2021, 05:15:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 15, 2021, 03:44:10 PM
Forgetting the whys and wherefores of vaccinations etc. I would like to know what is deemed as a better alternative? I have no idea what is perceived to be a(viable) way out that's not a vaccine.

The UK way is to open everything up and let people get Covid by transmission.
It's f**king stupid.
It risks creating a new variant.

Exactly and then we run the further risk of current vaccinations not working on any new strains...

It's a big gamble and it looks like its being taken to give the hospitality sector a chance of getting some money in before the winter hits.
hospitality and nightclubs, it looks like
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mario on July 16, 2021, 11:17:15 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 16, 2021, 10:58:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 15, 2021, 05:41:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 15, 2021, 05:15:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 15, 2021, 03:44:10 PM
Forgetting the whys and wherefores of vaccinations etc. I would like to know what is deemed as a better alternative? I have no idea what is perceived to be a(viable) way out that's not a vaccine.

The UK way is to open everything up and let people get Covid by transmission.
It's f**king stupid.
It risks creating a new variant.

Exactly and then we run the further risk of current vaccinations not working on any new strains...

It's a big gamble and it looks like its being taken to give the hospitality sector a chance of getting some money in before the winter hits.

With this logic we will never ever open up. Vaccines are always behind variants. We need to get on with it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on July 16, 2021, 11:22:42 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 15, 2021, 11:45:20 AM
Can you answer this question bennycake.

How do we get out of this without a vaccine?
There are other ways it appears. Worrying not openly discussed.
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/bret-weinstein-darkhorse-podcast/id1471581521?i=1000528685411
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 16, 2021, 11:41:42 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 16, 2021, 10:58:53 AM

Exactly and then we run the further risk of current vaccinations not working on any new strains...

It's a big gamble and it looks like its being taken to give the hospitality sector a chance of getting some money in before the winter hits.

Variants could arise in the UK, but there is a greater danger of variants arising elsewhere in the world.

Quote
With this logic we will never ever open up. Vaccines are always behind variants. We need to get on with it.

By definition vaccines are behind the variants, but current vaccines are effective against the variants and they can tweaked. What we have to get on with is vaccination and stop these c**k and bull excuses for not getting vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on July 16, 2021, 11:50:22 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2021, 09:41:51 AM
The risk with a 4th variant before vaccination has been completed is the development of a new variant that is resistant to vaccination.
Unlike the Wuhan variant , Delta is strong in summer.

Covid is seasonal, wtf you on about
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2021, 12:10:02 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on July 16, 2021, 11:50:22 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2021, 09:41:51 AM
The risk with a 4th variant before vaccination has been completed is the development of a new variant that is resistant to vaccination.
Unlike the Wuhan variant , Delta is strong in summer.

Covid is seasonal, wtf you on about

Just like the big bad flu season of 2017/18, Angelo and Smurphy would be having a fit at these numbers during the hottest day of the year
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 16, 2021, 12:12:38 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on July 16, 2021, 11:50:22 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2021, 09:41:51 AM
The risk with a 4th variant before vaccination has been completed is the development of a new variant that is resistant to vaccination.
Unlike the Wuhan variant , Delta is strong in summer.

Covid is seasonal, wtf you on about
Somebody must have forgotten to tell Covid that🙄
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on July 16, 2021, 12:16:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2021, 12:10:02 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on July 16, 2021, 11:50:22 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2021, 09:41:51 AM
The risk with a 4th variant before vaccination has been completed is the development of a new variant that is resistant to vaccination.
Unlike the Wuhan variant , Delta is strong in summer.

Covid is seasonal, wtf you on about

Just like the big bad flu season of 2017/18, Angelo and Smurphy would be having a fit at these numbers during the hottest day of the year

;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on July 16, 2021, 01:02:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 16, 2021, 11:41:42 AM. Vaccines are always behind variants. We need to get on with it.


By definition vaccines are behind the variants, but current vaccines are effective against the variants and they can tweaked. What we have to get on with is vaccination and stop these c**k and bull excuses for not getting vaccinated.
I heard some scientist the other day who was saying a multi-purpose vaccine which will be resitant to all variants is already being worked on.

Though he reckoned we were talking 10 years.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on July 16, 2021, 01:10:14 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:31:00 PM
Yes, I was pointing out the similarities to Ireland's new apartheid laws.
Christ on a bike: First Nazism, now Apartheid!

As someone who's been to Robben Island, I would recommend you educate yourself on that place, as well as Auschwitz.

But you really should keep your mouth shut in the meantime, since while Ignorance or Stupidity may normally be allowable, insulting the victims of two such vile regimes most definitely isn't.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 16, 2021, 01:54:45 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 16, 2021, 01:10:14 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:31:00 PM
Yes, I was pointing out the similarities to Ireland's new apartheid laws.
Christ on a bike: First Nazism, now Apartheid!

As someone who's been to Robben Island, I would recommend you educate yourself on that place, as well as Auschwitz.

But you really should keep your mouth shut in the meantime, since while Ignorance or Stupidity may normally be allowable, insulting the victims of two such vile regimes most definitely isn't.

It's the rhetoric of Internet grifters, the lunatic fringe, the O'Dohertys, Cahills, who pre-covid were rightly mocked by 99.9% of the country, (numbers now growing during the pandemic) , the anti-this, anti-that brigade.... How people are falling for the bile that comes out of these charlatans mouths / keyboards and repeated it is incredible.

Think I've asked this before, but does anyone know someone who thinks like BennyCake, someone far down that rabbit hole who has come back to their senses?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Truth hurts on July 16, 2021, 02:14:42 PM
Going by the cases I predict another lockdown in the north in the next few weeks, even a circuit breaker to stop in the infection rate from increasing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 16, 2021, 02:33:58 PM
Quote from: Truth hurts on July 16, 2021, 02:14:42 PM
Going by the cases I predict another lockdown in the north in the next few weeks, even a circuit breaker to stop in the infection rate from increasing.
Probably ffs. But the only way this will end is through herd immunity, which will be a combination of vaccines and people getting infected.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on July 16, 2021, 02:35:04 PM
Quote from: Truth hurts on July 16, 2021, 02:14:42 PM
Going by the cases I predict another lockdown in the north in the next few weeks, even a circuit breaker to stop in the infection rate from increasing.

It is my understanding at the moment that no further lockdowns are planned.
Instead the track and trace system is being up-scaled and the intention is to use that to control the spread rather than a lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on July 16, 2021, 03:13:59 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 16, 2021, 01:54:45 PM
Think I've asked this before, but does anyone know someone who thinks like BennyCake, someone far down that rabbit hole who has come back to their senses?
It's rare, but it does sometimes happen, apparently:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/24/qanon-believer-conspiracy-theory/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/24/qanon-believer-conspiracy-theory/)

(Normally behind a paywall,  but you can click for a couple of free articles first)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Truth hurts on July 16, 2021, 03:16:29 PM
If the rate of infections continues to plummet in the 6 counties I can see a halt to GAA activities. It is the young who are getting the disease.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 16, 2021, 03:25:29 PM
Quote from: Truth hurts on July 16, 2021, 03:16:29 PM
If the rate of infections continues to plummet in the 6 counties I can see a halt to GAA activities. It is the young who are getting the disease.

?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 16, 2021, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 16, 2021, 02:35:04 PM
Quote from: Truth hurts on July 16, 2021, 02:14:42 PM
Going by the cases I predict another lockdown in the north in the next few weeks, even a circuit breaker to stop in the infection rate from increasing.

It is my understanding at the moment that no further lockdowns are planned.
Instead the track and trace system is being up-scaled and the intention is to use that to control the spread rather than a lockdown.

plenty of track and trace and plenty of testing will keep things under control. However, you have to keep recording people using the facilities and get them to have the app and so on for this to work.

Quote from: Truth hurts on July 16, 2021, 03:16:29 PM
If the rate of infections continues to plummet in the 6 counties I can see a halt to GAA activities. It is the young who are getting the disease.

That would be pity. However, antigen testing or the like might be good way forward.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on July 16, 2021, 03:37:32 PM
Quote from: Truth hurts on July 16, 2021, 02:14:42 PM
Going by the cases I predict another lockdown in the north in the next few weeks, even a circuit breaker to stop in the infection rate from increasing.

Cases isn't the same as a year ago or even 6 months ago. The vaccine gives different options now to move on and away from the need of further lockdowns.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2021, 04:29:25 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 16, 2021, 02:33:58 PM
Quote from: Truth hurts on July 16, 2021, 02:14:42 PM
Going by the cases I predict another lockdown in the north in the next few weeks, even a circuit breaker to stop in the infection rate from increasing.
Probably ffs. But the only way this will end is through herd immunity, which will be a combination of vaccines and people getting infected.

Who hasn't been doing infected by those figures? Closing down should only occur when hospital admissions are beyond control
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 16, 2021, 04:31:47 PM
Hospital cases are rising a good bit in the north. The next week or two will tell a tale. They aren't that high yet but there will be a lag. It'll be interesting to see.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2021, 04:35:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 16, 2021, 04:31:47 PM
Hospital cases are rising a good bit in the north. The next week or two will tell a tale. They aren't that high yet but there will be a lag. It'll be interesting to see.

Of the high figures in hospital how many are second jabbed and or have had been infected before?

It's a lot of people catching 'flu' for the summer ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 16, 2021, 04:35:21 PM
Is that data available? I have no idea...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2021, 04:46:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 16, 2021, 04:35:21 PM
Is that data available? I have no idea...

Be handy to have!

Having data to show how it's growing type of variant and which country to blame  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 16, 2021, 05:24:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2021, 04:35:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 16, 2021, 04:31:47 PM
Hospital cases are rising a good bit in the north. The next week or two will tell a tale. They aren't that high yet but there will be a lag. It'll be interesting to see.

Of the high figures in hospital how many are second jabbed and or have had been infected before?

It's a lot of people catching 'flu' for the summer ;)

Not sure if it's the North or South, but I heard a figure of 5% with 2nd jab
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 16, 2021, 05:25:19 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 16, 2021, 05:24:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2021, 04:35:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 16, 2021, 04:31:47 PM
Hospital cases are rising a good bit in the north. The next week or two will tell a tale. They aren't that high yet but there will be a lag. It'll be interesting to see.

Of the high figures in hospital how many are second jabbed and or have had been infected before?

It's a lot of people catching 'flu' for the summer ;)

Not sure if it's the North or South, but I heard a figure of 5% with 2nd jab

Heard that figure yesterday, in the South it's less than 5% and they aren't critical.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2021, 05:28:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 16, 2021, 05:25:19 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 16, 2021, 05:24:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2021, 04:35:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 16, 2021, 04:31:47 PM
Hospital cases are rising a good bit in the north. The next week or two will tell a tale. They aren't that high yet but there will be a lag. It'll be interesting to see.

Of the high figures in hospital how many are second jabbed and or have had been infected before?

It's a lot of people catching 'flu' for the summer ;)

Not sure if it's the North or South, but I heard a figure of 5% with 2nd jab

Heard that figure yesterday, in the South it's less than 5% and they aren't critical.

So seriously wtf!!!??

If and it's a big if, those figures are correct then people wise up! Get doubled jabbed!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 16, 2021, 06:00:00 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 16, 2021, 01:10:14 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:31:00 PM
Yes, I was pointing out the similarities to Ireland's new apartheid laws.
Christ on a bike: First Nazism, now Apartheid!

As someone who's been to Robben Island, I would recommend you educate yourself on that place, as well as Auschwitz.

But you really should keep your mouth shut in the meantime, since while Ignorance or Stupidity may normally be allowable, insulting the victims of two such vile regimes most definitely isn't.

And where did I do that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 16, 2021, 06:12:44 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on July 16, 2021, 05:48:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2021, 05:28:40 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 16, 2021, 05:25:19 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 16, 2021, 05:24:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2021, 04:35:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 16, 2021, 04:31:47 PM
Hospital cases are rising a good bit in the north. The next week or two will tell a tale. They aren't that high yet but there will be a lag. It'll be interesting to see.

Of the high figures in hospital how many are second jabbed and or have had been infected before?

It's a lot of people catching 'flu' for the summer ;)

Not sure if it's the North or South, but I heard a figure of 5% with 2nd jab

Heard that figure yesterday, in the South it's less than 5% and they aren't critical.

So seriously wtf!!!??

If and it's a big if, those figures are correct then people wise up! Get doubled jabbed!!
There's 2 seperate reasons for vaccinations:
1. Self protection
2. Protection of the whole population and thereby the vulnerable.

We have had billions of vaccinations of various kinds over several years developed in similar  ways, and there is no significant evidence of major harm, compared to the effect of the virus itself.

Really?

https://www.bmj.com/content/367/bmj.l6658
(https://www.bmj.com/content/367/bmj.l6658)

QuoteThe health services on these islands were having major challenges pre-Covid. The pandemic and post Covid issues have placed unprecedented pressures on our health service , those that work in it, and those dependent on it.

Anti-vacc arguments are blown away by the science , and those that put themselves before the health of their community and particularly the vulnerable , can't get off unchallenged .

Fir optimal success we need the vast majority of over 18s vaccinated. Those that refuse vaccination are  jeopardising everybody else's health and opportunities.
If they make that choice there are consequences for us all and they are prolonging the impact of Covid.
If they are principled in their stance , then presumably they'll extend that principled stance to not putting others at risk, and they'll stay out of public places

So now it's all the teenagers fault for living their lives? Not government and politicians who didn't close the airports/ports early days? Hundreds of thousands in and out of the country, leading to rising cases and new variants? We're they not the ones who jeopardised the health of the population?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2021, 06:20:06 PM
Old news Benny, we know the governments fucked up at the start, so how you fixing it now? Don't vote them in when you vote next day
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on July 16, 2021, 08:28:15 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 16, 2021, 06:00:00 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 16, 2021, 01:10:14 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:31:00 PM
Yes, I was pointing out the similarities to Ireland's new apartheid laws.
Christ on a bike: First Nazism, now Apartheid!

As someone who's been to Robben Island, I would recommend you educate yourself on that place, as well as Auschwitz.

But you really should keep your mouth shut in the meantime, since while Ignorance or Stupidity may normally be allowable, insulting the victims of two such vile regimes most definitely isn't.

And where did I do that?

When you compare getting a covid vaccination with vaccinations in concentration camps you are insulting those people. The reason I suggested you look into what happened in those camps was so you could learn why your comparisons are so ridiculous.

Same applies to apartheid. Look into what apartheid was actually like in South Africa before making insulting comparisons. You don't even have to dig that deep to find some of the horrors that went on in both eras
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 16, 2021, 08:56:26 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 16, 2021, 08:28:15 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 16, 2021, 06:00:00 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 16, 2021, 01:10:14 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2021, 09:31:00 PM
Yes, I was pointing out the similarities to Ireland's new apartheid laws.
Christ on a bike: First Nazism, now Apartheid!

As someone who's been to Robben Island, I would recommend you educate yourself on that place, as well as Auschwitz.

But you really should keep your mouth shut in the meantime, since while Ignorance or Stupidity may normally be allowable, insulting the victims of two such vile regimes most definitely isn't.

And where did I do that?

When you compare getting a covid vaccination with vaccinations in concentration camps you are insulting those people. The reason I suggested you look into what happened in those camps was so you could learn why your comparisons are so ridiculous.

Same applies to apartheid. Look into what apartheid was actually like in South Africa before making insulting comparisons. You don't even have to dig that deep to find some of the horrors that went on in both eras

Without risking repeating myself, I think you'll find that's not what I said.

And I never once mentioned South Africa. Until now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2021, 08:59:09 PM
I was in Nazi Ireland capital yesterday, stormtroopers everywhere
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 16, 2021, 09:07:53 PM
Milltown, the right wing capital of Ireland would be around where you live, to be sure
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 16, 2021, 09:33:58 PM
I see the Southern Trust is stopping hospital visitors. This is absolutely f**king disgusting and whoever is behind that needs a kick up the hole. What is the point in vaccinating vulnerable people and healthcare staff to stop visitation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on July 17, 2021, 02:21:21 AM
Uk hospitalizations 16 June 2021 3964. 35 m fully vaccinated
Uk hospitalizations 16 June 2020 1254   0 vaccinated
Doesn't make sense
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 17, 2021, 02:30:48 AM
It makes sense, the delta variant is twice as infectious as the original one. Did you mean July?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on July 17, 2021, 03:03:00 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 17, 2021, 02:30:48 AM
It makes sense, the delta variant is twice as infectious as the original one. Did you mean July?
yes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 17, 2021, 07:20:27 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 17, 2021, 02:21:21 AM
Uk hospitalizations 16 June 2021 3964. 35 m fully vaccinated
Uk hospitalizations 16 June 2020 1254   0 vaccinated
Doesn't make sense
Why doesn't it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 17, 2021, 10:31:01 AM
https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/07/16/holidays-france-thrown-chaos-fully-vaccinated-britons-will-need/...Grant Shapps, the Transport Secretary, said: "Travel will be different this year and whilst we are committed to continuing to open up international travel safely, our absolute priority is to protect public health here in the UK.

Aguisín

https://mobile.twitter.com/LBC/status/1416128551519232001
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on July 17, 2021, 06:15:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2021, 06:20:06 PM
Old news Benny, we know the governments fucked up at the start, so how you fixing it now? Don't vote them in when you vote next day

Bingo.

Just look at the pathetic quote from Dr L on Wednesday last.

"We are targeting Monday 26th, really because it has to go through the Seanad, and we need to allow the president time to consider the bill and what's in it, and we need to get some regulations in place and things like that in place"

Btw they need 11 days to do that. Unbelievable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 17, 2021, 06:46:31 PM
I'd say you're a right expert in how to run a State, pass legislation and all the rest of it.
Or are you a "put Michael O'Leary in charge" fan?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 18, 2021, 04:44:48 PM
ROI weekly update, The spike in cases as was projected has arrived. Hospital numbers has also taken a hit this week but its worth to point out they are not all admissions as Mayo hospital current has a outbreak and when that gets sorted we'll get a clearer picture.


Cases 6695 (3,030 more than last week)
In Hospital 91 (33 more than last Sunday)
In ICU 22 ( 6 more than a week ago)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 18, 2021, 04:46:37 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 18, 2021, 04:44:48 PM
ROI weekly update, The spike in cases as was projected has arrived. Hospital numbers has also taken a hit this week but its worth to point out they are not all admissions as Mayo hospital current has a outbreak and when that gets sorted we'll get a clearer picture.


Cases 6695 (3,030 more than last week)
In Hospital 91 (33 more than last Sunday)
In ICU 16 ( 6 more than a week ago)

What would the numbers be if the place just opened up?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 18, 2021, 04:56:09 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 18, 2021, 04:44:48 PM
ROI weekly update, The spike in cases as was projected has arrived. Hospital numbers has also taken a hit this week but its worth to point out they are not all admissions as Mayo hospital current has a outbreak and when that gets sorted we'll get a clearer picture.

the problem is that is COvid is widespread then it becomes harder to keep it out of hospitals.

The 26 counties has geared up the vaccination though, they did vaccinations o 1.26% of the population each day, they'll have caught up on the US in a week and the UK by the start of August.

(//)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 18, 2021, 05:19:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 18, 2021, 04:56:09 PM
The problem is that is COvid is widespread then it becomes harder to keep it out of hospitals.

The 26 counties has geared up the vaccination though, they did vaccinations o 1.26% of the population each day, they'll have caught up on the US in a week and the UK by the start of August.

(//)

Visitors were allowed back to hospitals recently, i suspect that will change again. Yes the vaccine uptake the big difference from last summer.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 18, 2021, 04:46:37 PM

What would the numbers be if the place just opened up?

Probably upwards of 8,000 cases. Hard to know with the hospital situation as a lot of the cases seem to under 35.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.

COVID-19 is never going to go away. We can't live like prisoners for another couple of years.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.

COVID-19 is never going to go away. We can't live like prisoners for another couple of years.

I would accept that, but is the English approach not too much to soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.

COVID-19 is never going to go away. We can't live like prisoners for another couple of years.

I would accept that, but is the English approach not too much to soon.

It's been too long in my opinion. Now with the roll out of the vaccines if we can't ease restrictions now when will we ever be able to? What else can be done?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:16:45 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.

COVID-19 is never going to go away. We can't live like prisoners for another couple of years.

I would accept that, but is the English approach not too much to soon.

It's been too long in my opinion. Now with the roll out of the vaccines if we can't ease restrictions now when will we ever be able to? What else can be done?

I think a phased approach to ease restrictions would be sensible. Abandoning social distancing, masks in doors all in one go seems a bit much. Test the water bit by bit. With a huge increase in case numbers & hospital numbers increasing seems a bit daft to fully open.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mario on July 19, 2021, 10:17:00 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.

COVID-19 is never going to go away. We can't live like prisoners for another couple of years.

I would accept that, but is the English approach not too much to soon.

It's been too long in my opinion. Now with the roll out of the vaccines if we can't ease restrictions now when will we ever be able to? What else can be done?
Exactly, when is it not too soon? What are the criteria?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:21:36 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:16:45 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.

COVID-19 is never going to go away. We can't live like prisoners for another couple of years.

I would accept that, but is the English approach not too much to soon.

It's been too long in my opinion. Now with the roll out of the vaccines if we can't ease restrictions now when will we ever be able to? What else can be done?

I think a phased approach to ease restrictions would be sensible. Abandoning social distancing, masks in doors all in one go seems a bit much. Test the water bit by bit. With a huge increase in case numbers & hospital numbers increasing seems a bit daft to fully open.

It's a double edged sword my friend. What happens if cases rise? Surely we can't go into a fourth lockdown? I feel like like the public would revolt and wouldn't abide by government regulations if they went back into a lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 19, 2021, 11:31:09 AM
Cases are already rising. There are no easy answers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 19, 2021, 11:33:31 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:21:36 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:16:45 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.

COVID-19 is never going to go away. We can't live like prisoners for another couple of years.

I would accept that, but is the English approach not too much to soon.

It's been too long in my opinion. Now with the roll out of the vaccines if we can't ease restrictions now when will we ever be able to? What else can be done?

I think a phased approach to ease restrictions would be sensible. Abandoning social distancing, masks in doors all in one go seems a bit much. Test the water bit by bit. With a huge increase in case numbers & hospital numbers increasing seems a bit daft to fully open.

It's a double edged sword my friend. What happens if cases rise? Surely we can't go into a fourth lockdown? I feel like like the public would revolt and wouldn't abide by government regulations if they went back into a lockdown.

Absolute insanity is right re Boris's decisions. Without a phased easing as more and more get their 2nd jab, a fourth Lockdown will happen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 19, 2021, 11:43:49 AM
Are we not stuffed in the north now? Basically if the government want another lockdown then furlough ends soon so anything post furlough needs more money and any money would need to be approved by parliament which will hardly approve furlough money if England not getting it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 19, 2021, 12:30:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 19, 2021, 11:43:49 AM
Are we not stuffed in the north now? Basically if the government want another lockdown then furlough ends soon so anything post furlough needs more money and any money would need to be approved by parliament which will hardly approve furlough money if England not getting it.

We're more at risk than any other place given the absolute mess our health service is in. But there are no easy answers. People are going to have to be sensible and cautious.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 19, 2021, 01:28:39 PM
Even when you look at that dashboard and numbers are very low covid wise capacity can be at 100% plus. I think people just assume that it is massively stretched due to covid but it was massively stretched before it.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 19, 2021, 04:31:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 19, 2021, 11:43:49 AM
Are we not stuffed in the north now? Basically if the government want another lockdown then furlough ends soon so anything post furlough needs more money and any money would need to be approved by parliament which will hardly approve furlough money if England not getting it.

I don't think that a widespread "lockdown" will be needed, but even closing pubs etc would create a need for financial support.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 04:33:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 19, 2021, 04:31:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 19, 2021, 11:43:49 AM
Are we not stuffed in the north now? Basically if the government want another lockdown then furlough ends soon so anything post furlough needs more money and any money would need to be approved by parliament which will hardly approve furlough money if England not getting it.

I don't think that a widespread "lockdown" will be needed, but even closing pubs etc would create a need for financial support.

No more closing anything. It's over. Would love to know if the roles were reversed would the OAPs throw away 2 years of their prime to help the youth?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 19, 2021, 04:36:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 19, 2021, 04:31:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 19, 2021, 11:43:49 AM
Are we not stuffed in the north now? Basically if the government want another lockdown then furlough ends soon so anything post furlough needs more money and any money would need to be approved by parliament which will hardly approve furlough money if England not getting it.

I don't think that a widespread "lockdown" will be needed, but even closing pubs etc would create a need for financial support.

My point is though that any lockdown would have no funding. Who pays the bar staff?

So I guess I am agreeing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on July 19, 2021, 05:25:08 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 04:33:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 19, 2021, 04:31:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 19, 2021, 11:43:49 AM
Are we not stuffed in the north now? Basically if the government want another lockdown then furlough ends soon so anything post furlough needs more money and any money would need to be approved by parliament which will hardly approve furlough money if England not getting it.

I don't think that a widespread "lockdown" will be needed, but even closing pubs etc would create a need for financial support.

No more closing anything. It's over. Would love to know if the roles were reversed would the OAPs throw away 2 years of their prime to help the youth?

::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 19, 2021, 05:38:00 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.

COVID-19 is never going to go away. We can't live like prisoners for another couple of years.

I would accept that, but is the English approach not too much to soon.

It's been too long in my opinion. Now with the roll out of the vaccines if we can't ease restrictions now when will we ever be able to? What else can be done?
Agreed. Be safer dead than another year and a half like that one. 99.9% of vulnerable people have the jab and anyone in a nightclub is doing so at their own free will and accepting the minimal risk. If you're that worried about a virus stay at home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: yellowcard on July 19, 2021, 05:48:50 PM
It's a huge gamble by the Tory government. There will inevitably be some deaths as a result of their decision given the high number of daily case numbers but it is about finding the correct balance between keeping hospital numbers at manageable levels and having a properly functioning economy. Only when the entire Covid pandemic is over can we properly judge these decisions with hindsight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 19, 2021, 06:15:26 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 19, 2021, 05:38:00 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.

COVID-19 is never going to go away. We can't live like prisoners for another couple of years.

I would accept that, but is the English approach not too much to soon.

It's been too long in my opinion. Now with the roll out of the vaccines if we can't ease restrictions now when will we ever be able to? What else can be done?
Agreed. Be safer dead than another year and a half like that one. 99.9% of vulnerable people have the jab and anyone in a nightclub is doing so at their own free will and accepting the minimal risk. If you're that worried about a virus stay at home.

It's amazing that after so so many posts on the topic, you still don't get it. That's truly astonishing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 19, 2021, 06:19:09 PM
There's no cure for ignorant stupidity :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 19, 2021, 06:28:47 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 19, 2021, 06:15:26 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 19, 2021, 05:38:00 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.

COVID-19 is never going to go away. We can't live like prisoners for another couple of years.

I would accept that, but is the English approach not too much to soon.

It's been too long in my opinion. Now with the roll out of the vaccines if we can't ease restrictions now when will we ever be able to? What else can be done?
Agreed. Be safer dead than another year and a half like that one. 99.9% of vulnerable people have the jab and anyone in a nightclub is doing so at their own free will and accepting the minimal risk. If you're that worried about a virus stay at home.

It's amazing that after so so many posts on the topic, you still don't get it. That's truly astonishing
You enjoy your life and I'll enjoy mine. Good lad
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 19, 2021, 06:35:49 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 19, 2021, 06:28:47 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 19, 2021, 06:15:26 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 19, 2021, 05:38:00 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.

COVID-19 is never going to go away. We can't live like prisoners for another couple of years.

I would accept that, but is the English approach not too much to soon.

It's been too long in my opinion. Now with the roll out of the vaccines if we can't ease restrictions now when will we ever be able to? What else can be done?
Agreed. Be safer dead than another year and a half like that one. 99.9% of vulnerable people have the jab and anyone in a nightclub is doing so at their own free will and accepting the minimal risk. If you're that worried about a virus stay at home.

It's amazing that after so so many posts on the topic, you still don't get it. That's truly astonishing
You enjoy your life and I'll enjoy mine. Good lad

Selfless. A real community man.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NotedObserver on July 19, 2021, 06:39:03 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 19, 2021, 06:35:49 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 19, 2021, 06:28:47 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 19, 2021, 06:15:26 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 19, 2021, 05:38:00 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.

COVID-19 is never going to go away. We can't live like prisoners for another couple of years.

I would accept that, but is the English approach not too much to soon.

It's been too long in my opinion. Now with the roll out of the vaccines if we can't ease restrictions now when will we ever be able to? What else can be done?
Agreed. Be safer dead than another year and a half like that one. 99.9% of vulnerable people have the jab and anyone in a nightclub is doing so at their own free will and accepting the minimal risk. If you're that worried about a virus stay at home.

It's amazing that after so so many posts on the topic, you still don't get it. That's truly astonishing
You enjoy your life and I'll enjoy mine. Good lad

Selfless. A real community man.

Seems to be more and more issues with people double jabbed ending up fairly sick.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on July 19, 2021, 06:49:58 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 17, 2021, 07:20:27 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 17, 2021, 02:21:21 AM
Uk hospitalizations 16 June 2021 3964. 35 m fully vaccinated
Uk hospitalizations 16 June 2020 1254   0 vaccinated
Doesn't make sense
Why doesn't it?
are vaccines wearing off or failing?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 19, 2021, 06:54:34 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on July 19, 2021, 06:39:03 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 19, 2021, 06:35:49 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 19, 2021, 06:28:47 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 19, 2021, 06:15:26 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 19, 2021, 05:38:00 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.

COVID-19 is never going to go away. We can't live like prisoners for another couple of years.

I would accept that, but is the English approach not too much to soon.

It's been too long in my opinion. Now with the roll out of the vaccines if we can't ease restrictions now when will we ever be able to? What else can be done?
Agreed. Be safer dead than another year and a half like that one. 99.9% of vulnerable people have the jab and anyone in a nightclub is doing so at their own free will and accepting the minimal risk. If you're that worried about a virus stay at home.

It's amazing that after so so many posts on the topic, you still don't get it. That's truly astonishing
You enjoy your life and I'll enjoy mine. Good lad

Selfless. A real community man.

Seems to be more and more issues with people double jabbed ending up fairly sick.

Friend doubled jabbed and caught Covid last week... nothing wrong with him other than a cough.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 19, 2021, 07:11:15 PM
The problem also is if lockdown has to end here because no more furlough then the south also stuffed because people will continue to come up here with the more lenient restrictions.

MR I read something about stats on the people getting admitted to hospital have quite a few having had second jabs. I am not sure if the stats are accurate on that or not as who the hell knows these days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 19, 2021, 07:43:00 PM
Covid is out of control. Money can be printed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 19, 2021, 07:47:14 PM
Out of the hands of plebs like us though SF. In the hands of important people like BoJo.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on July 19, 2021, 08:57:55 PM
I actually think they've made the right call, things have to open up at some stage and I can see the logic in doing it when the weather is good and people will be spending more time outside naturally. I really think they need to bring in the no vaccine no entry to places. Too many people I've spoken to who haven't had the vaccine just don't seem arsed and a good few have said they aren't against it and if they had to have it to go on holiday etc they would get it. That's the selfish attitude really annoys me, these people aren't against it just choosing not to get it as they think it's not impacting them. Wtf is the point in the rest of us getting ours for them to hold us back from moving forward. Make the things they enjoy need a vaccine passport and you'll fairly see the doses go up, I'd say that's why BoJo mentioned it being a requirement for nightclubs in sept, around 8-10 weeks away, you'll see the young people vaccine numbers spike the next week or 2 I'd say.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 19, 2021, 09:15:36 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on July 19, 2021, 08:57:55 PM
I actually think they've made the right call, things have to open up at some stage and I can see the logic in doing it when the weather is good and people will be spending more time outside naturally. I really think they need to bring in the no vaccine no entry to places. Too many people I've spoken to who haven't had the vaccine just don't seem arsed and a good few have said they aren't against it and if they had to have it to go on holiday etc they would get it. That's the selfish attitude really annoys me, these people aren't against it just choosing not to get it as they think it's not impacting them. Wtf is the point in the rest of us getting ours for them to hold us back from moving forward. Make the things they enjoy need a vaccine passport and you'll fairly see the doses go up, I'd say that's why BoJo mentioned it being a requirement for nightclubs in sept, around 8-10 weeks away, you'll see the young people vaccine numbers spike the next week or 2 I'd say.

In the 26 counties they have the vaccine requirement from the beginning and this will encourage the laggards. The only problem is pubs taking the piss and there will be the usual total lack of enforcement. I presume private clubs like GAA clubs would need people to have vaccines also if food or alcohol is served? The GAA would need to make clear that clubs should not cheat on this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on July 19, 2021, 09:18:23 PM
Has anyone travelled from an amber country through Dublin back to the North? Just wondering how the tracking of the self isolation works.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 19, 2021, 09:20:34 PM
They opened up so everyone could have a nice Christmas and January had world record infection levels. Borders should be closed until Covid is faoi smacht.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on July 19, 2021, 09:24:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 19, 2021, 09:20:34 PM
They opened up so everyone could have a nice Christmas and January had world record infection levels. Borders should be closed until Covid is faoi smacht.

Define under control?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on July 19, 2021, 09:29:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 19, 2021, 09:15:36 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on July 19, 2021, 08:57:55 PM
I actually think they've made the right call, things have to open up at some stage and I can see the logic in doing it when the weather is good and people will be spending more time outside naturally. I really think they need to bring in the no vaccine no entry to places. Too many people I've spoken to who haven't had the vaccine just don't seem arsed and a good few have said they aren't against it and if they had to have it to go on holiday etc they would get it. That's the selfish attitude really annoys me, these people aren't against it just choosing not to get it as they think it's not impacting them. Wtf is the point in the rest of us getting ours for them to hold us back from moving forward. Make the things they enjoy need a vaccine passport and you'll fairly see the doses go up, I'd say that's why BoJo mentioned it being a requirement for nightclubs in sept, around 8-10 weeks away, you'll see the young people vaccine numbers spike the next week or 2 I'd say.

In the 26 counties they have the vaccine requirement from the beginning and this will encourage the laggards. The only problem is pubs taking the piss and there will be the usual total lack of enforcement. I presume private clubs like GAA clubs would need people to have vaccines also if food or alcohol is served? The GAA would need to make clear that clubs should not cheat on this.

Seen that in the south actually and tbh at the start I was against it but now seeing the attitude of people it really needs to be done, even if it's just to jan or something, more under 30s need to take the vaccine and as bad as it sounds making places no vaccine no entry is the only way some will do it, we can't go backwards we need to go forward
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 19, 2021, 09:44:06 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on July 19, 2021, 09:29:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 19, 2021, 09:15:36 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on July 19, 2021, 08:57:55 PM
I actually think they've made the right call, things have to open up at some stage and I can see the logic in doing it when the weather is good and people will be spending more time outside naturally. I really think they need to bring in the no vaccine no entry to places. Too many people I've spoken to who haven't had the vaccine just don't seem arsed and a good few have said they aren't against it and if they had to have it to go on holiday etc they would get it. That's the selfish attitude really annoys me, these people aren't against it just choosing not to get it as they think it's not impacting them. Wtf is the point in the rest of us getting ours for them to hold us back from moving forward. Make the things they enjoy need a vaccine passport and you'll fairly see the doses go up, I'd say that's why BoJo mentioned it being a requirement for nightclubs in sept, around 8-10 weeks away, you'll see the young people vaccine numbers spike the next week or 2 I'd say.

Apart from pubs  and clubs, I expect they will keep this for flights and require a vaccine for attendance at third level, so hopefully they'll catch most of the youth.

In the 26 counties they have the vaccine requirement from the beginning and this will encourage the laggards. The only problem is pubs taking the piss and there will be the usual total lack of enforcement. I presume private clubs like GAA clubs would need people to have vaccines also if food or alcohol is served? The GAA would need to make clear that clubs should not cheat on this.

Seen that in the south actually and tbh at the start I was against it but now seeing the attitude of people it really needs to be done, even if it's just to jan or something, more under 30s need to take the vaccine and as bad as it sounds making places no vaccine no entry is the only way some will do it, we can't go backwards we need to go forward
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AnGaelGearmanach on July 20, 2021, 06:18:19 AM
The way covid has been handled is crazy in my opinion. Its an over-glorified flu. it is mental, now that we have learned so much about it all we can do is roll out vaccines to help prevent and if that still doesnt satisfy ye then sit in the fckin house and dont leave it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 20, 2021, 06:33:08 AM
Quote from: Mario on July 19, 2021, 10:17:00 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.

COVID-19 is never going to go away. We can't live like prisoners for another couple of years.

I would accept that, but is the English approach not too much to soon.

It's been too long in my opinion. Now with the roll out of the vaccines if we can't ease restrictions now when will we ever be able to? What else can be done?
Exactly, when is it not too soon? What are the criteria?

Infections need to be falling.
You need effective  test and trace
amd the borders have to be shut.

None of this applies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 20, 2021, 07:38:40 AM
Quote from: Rois on July 19, 2021, 09:18:23 PM
Has anyone travelled from an amber country through Dublin back to the North? Just wondering how the tracking of the self isolation works.
No but they've no way to track ye afaik.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on July 20, 2021, 07:39:31 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2021, 06:33:08 AM
Quote from: Mario on July 19, 2021, 10:17:00 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.

COVID-19 is never going to go away. We can't live like prisoners for another couple of years.

I would accept that, but is the English approach not too much to soon.

It's been too long in my opinion. Now with the roll out of the vaccines if we can't ease restrictions now when will we ever be able to? What else can be done?
Exactly, when is it not too soon? What are the criteria?

Infections need to be falling.
You need effective  test and trace
amd the borders have to be shut.

None of this applies.

Infections were falling but as you start to open things back up they are going to increase which everyone knew. The case numbers aren't what we should be basing anything on, our most vulnerable are vaccinated and the hospitals aren't being over run with it. We can't keep lock downs on a what if basis. I know I'm repeating myself but the key to it now is getting under 30s on board with the vaccine, once that happens then we are in a great place.

Shutting the borders? It's far too late for that, shutting the borders now will change nothing, the time for that was 18 months ago. Now we need to learn to live with it and get vaccinated and be sensible when out and about
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AnGaelGearmanach on July 20, 2021, 07:53:02 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on July 20, 2021, 07:39:31 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2021, 06:33:08 AM
Quote from: Mario on July 19, 2021, 10:17:00 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.

COVID-19 is never going to go away. We can't live like prisoners for another couple of years.

I would accept that, but is the English approach not too much to soon.

It's been too long in my opinion. Now with the roll out of the vaccines if we can't ease restrictions now when will we ever be able to? What else can be done?
Exactly, when is it not too soon? What are the criteria?

Infections need to be falling.
You need effective  test and trace
amd the borders have to be shut.

None of this applies.

Infections were falling but as you start to open things back up they are going to increase which everyone knew. The case numbers aren't what we should be basing anything on, our most vulnerable are vaccinated and the hospitals aren't being over run with it. We can't keep lock downs on a what if basis. I know I'm repeating myself but the key to it now is getting under 30s on board with the vaccine, once that happens then we are in a great place.

Shutting the borders? It's far too late for that, shutting the borders now will change nothing, the time for that was 18 months ago. Now we need to learn to live with it and get vaccinated and be sensible when out and about

I completely agree. For some reason people like johnnycool & seafoid think covid will be eradicated but this is impossible. COVID will always be here and all we can do now is roll out vaccines, study the new variants and act accordingly. Talk of another lockdown i ludicrous, covid is here to stay now all we can do is deal with it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on July 20, 2021, 03:58:03 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 20, 2021, 06:18:19 AM
Its an over-glorified flu.
Really?

Just read this account by an extremely fit 55 y.o. with no other underlying health issues, about what it did to him:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57887668 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57887668)

Or any of the other thousands of accounts which attest to similar.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 20, 2021, 04:03:03 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 20, 2021, 07:53:02 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on July 20, 2021, 07:39:31 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2021, 06:33:08 AM
Quote from: Mario on July 19, 2021, 10:17:00 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.

COVID-19 is never going to go away. We can't live like prisoners for another couple of years.

I would accept that, but is the English approach not too much to soon.

It's been too long in my opinion. Now with the roll out of the vaccines if we can't ease restrictions now when will we ever be able to? What else can be done?
Exactly, when is it not too soon? What are the criteria?

Infections need to be falling.
You need effective  test and trace
amd the borders have to be shut.

None of this applies.

Infections were falling but as you start to open things back up they are going to increase which everyone knew. The case numbers aren't what we should be basing anything on, our most vulnerable are vaccinated and the hospitals aren't being over run with it. We can't keep lock downs on a what if basis. I know I'm repeating myself but the key to it now is getting under 30s on board with the vaccine, once that happens then we are in a great place.

Shutting the borders? It's far too late for that, shutting the borders now will change nothing, the time for that was 18 months ago. Now we need to learn to live with it and get vaccinated and be sensible when out and about

I completely agree. For some reason people like johnnycool & seafoid think covid will be eradicated but this is impossible. COVID will always be here and all we can do now is roll out vaccines, study the new variants and act accordingly. Talk of another lockdown i ludicrous, covid is here to stay now all we can do is deal with it.
Wrong, Angelo
The Spanish flu was defeated. Covid will.too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AnGaelGearmanach on July 20, 2021, 04:11:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2021, 04:03:03 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 20, 2021, 07:53:02 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on July 20, 2021, 07:39:31 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2021, 06:33:08 AM
Quote from: Mario on July 19, 2021, 10:17:00 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.

COVID-19 is never going to go away. We can't live like prisoners for another couple of years.

I would accept that, but is the English approach not too much to soon.

It's been too long in my opinion. Now with the roll out of the vaccines if we can't ease restrictions now when will we ever be able to? What else can be done?
Exactly, when is it not too soon? What are the criteria?

Infections need to be falling.
You need effective  test and trace
amd the borders have to be shut.

None of this applies.

Infections were falling but as you start to open things back up they are going to increase which everyone knew. The case numbers aren't what we should be basing anything on, our most vulnerable are vaccinated and the hospitals aren't being over run with it. We can't keep lock downs on a what if basis. I know I'm repeating myself but the key to it now is getting under 30s on board with the vaccine, once that happens then we are in a great place.

Shutting the borders? It's far too late for that, shutting the borders now will change nothing, the time for that was 18 months ago. Now we need to learn to live with it and get vaccinated and be sensible when out and about

I completely agree. For some reason people like johnnycool & seafoid think covid will be eradicated but this is impossible. COVID will always be here and all we can do now is roll out vaccines, study the new variants and act accordingly. Talk of another lockdown i ludicrous, covid is here to stay now all we can do is deal with it.
Wrong, Angelo
The Spanish flu was defeated. Covid will.too.

Please educate me on how it was defeated. I'd be thrilled to know
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AnGaelGearmanach on July 20, 2021, 04:13:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2021, 04:03:03 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 20, 2021, 07:53:02 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on July 20, 2021, 07:39:31 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2021, 06:33:08 AM
Quote from: Mario on July 19, 2021, 10:17:00 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.

COVID-19 is never going to go away. We can't live like prisoners for another couple of years.

I would accept that, but is the English approach not too much to soon.

It's been too long in my opinion. Now with the roll out of the vaccines if we can't ease restrictions now when will we ever be able to? What else can be done?
Exactly, when is it not too soon? What are the criteria?

Infections need to be falling.
You need effective  test and trace
amd the borders have to be shut.

None of this applies.

Infections were falling but as you start to open things back up they are going to increase which everyone knew. The case numbers aren't what we should be basing anything on, our most vulnerable are vaccinated and the hospitals aren't being over run with it. We can't keep lock downs on a what if basis. I know I'm repeating myself but the key to it now is getting under 30s on board with the vaccine, once that happens then we are in a great place.

Shutting the borders? It's far too late for that, shutting the borders now will change nothing, the time for that was 18 months ago. Now we need to learn to live with it and get vaccinated and be sensible when out and about

I completely agree. For some reason people like johnnycool & seafoid think covid will be eradicated but this is impossible. COVID will always be here and all we can do now is roll out vaccines, study the new variants and act accordingly. Talk of another lockdown i ludicrous, covid is here to stay now all we can do is deal with it.
Wrong, Angelo
The Spanish flu was defeated. Covid will.too.

Saying the spanish flu was defeated is like getting jumped by 4 men but after they have cleared off you brag about the 1 punch you got in
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on July 20, 2021, 04:59:07 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 20, 2021, 06:18:19 AM
The way covid has been handled is crazy in my opinion. Its an over-glorified flu. it is mental, now that we have learned so much about it all we can do is roll out vaccines to help prevent and if that still doesnt satisfy ye then sit in the fckin house and dont leave it

Well said Sammy. Now put a few jocks on please.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2021, 06:40:40 PM
Back to the flu again  ;D

2017/18 what a winter that was, unlike flu this isn't seasonal
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on July 20, 2021, 09:46:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2021, 04:03:03 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 20, 2021, 07:53:02 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on July 20, 2021, 07:39:31 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 20, 2021, 06:33:08 AM
Quote from: Mario on July 19, 2021, 10:17:00 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:09:18 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 10:00:12 AM
I'm not huge on the amount of Covid restrictions in place in this country over the last 6 months, however I find what the English government are currently doing is totally insane & dangerous. A former work colleague of mine (as fit as a fiddle in his early 50's) is currently in ISU in a very bad way. Are the English off their heads or what, nightclubs packed to the rafters in doors is surely going to lead to disaster, vaccinated or not.

COVID-19 is never going to go away. We can't live like prisoners for another couple of years.

I would accept that, but is the English approach not too much to soon.

It's been too long in my opinion. Now with the roll out of the vaccines if we can't ease restrictions now when will we ever be able to? What else can be done?
Exactly, when is it not too soon? What are the criteria?

Infections need to be falling.
You need effective  test and trace
amd the borders have to be shut.

None of this applies.

Infections were falling but as you start to open things back up they are going to increase which everyone knew. The case numbers aren't what we should be basing anything on, our most vulnerable are vaccinated and the hospitals aren't being over run with it. We can't keep lock downs on a what if basis. I know I'm repeating myself but the key to it now is getting under 30s on board with the vaccine, once that happens then we are in a great place.

Shutting the borders? It's far too late for that, shutting the borders now will change nothing, the time for that was 18 months ago. Now we need to learn to live with it and get vaccinated and be sensible when out and about

I completely agree. For some reason people like johnnycool & seafoid think covid will be eradicated but this is impossible. COVID will always be here and all we can do now is roll out vaccines, study the new variants and act accordingly. Talk of another lockdown i ludicrous, covid is here to stay now all we can do is deal with it.
Wrong, Angelo
The Spanish flu was defeated. Covid will.too.
I'd be very disappointed if that was Angelo, no panache or flair
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on July 21, 2021, 12:29:04 PM
Can anyone tell me what way this Covid passport works for indoor dining? heading away for a few nights next week and wanting to get it sorted, both have had the 2 jabs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on July 21, 2021, 01:07:37 PM
French President Macron: "I no longer have any intention of sacrificing my life, my time, my freedom and the adolescence of my daughters, as well as their right to study properly, for those who refuse to be vaccinated. This time you are staying at home, not us."

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 21, 2021, 01:57:16 PM
Leadership
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mario on July 21, 2021, 02:04:14 PM
It's a fake quote he doesn't have an adolescent daughter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 21, 2021, 02:17:43 PM
Quote from: Mario on July 21, 2021, 02:04:14 PM
It's a fake quote he doesn't have an adolescent daughter.

Or not with his wife, you mean?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 21, 2021, 02:21:05 PM
Quote from: Mario on July 21, 2021, 02:04:14 PM
It's a fake quote he doesn't have an adolescent daughter.

God bless the Internet
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on July 21, 2021, 02:59:49 PM
Quote from: joemamas on July 17, 2021, 06:15:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2021, 06:20:06 PM
Old news Benny, we know the governments fucked up at the start, so how you fixing it now? Don't vote them in when you vote next day

Bingo.

Just look at the pathetic quote from Dr L on Wednesday last.

"We are targeting Monday 26th, really because it has to go through the Seanad, and we need to allow the president time to consider the bill and what's in it, and we need to get some regulations in place and things like that in place"

Btw they need 11 days to do that. Unbelievable.

Breaking news,
The President signed off on this today, 7 days later. but yet cannot open until Monday.
so only another weekend of no indoor dining, now down to five left in the summer.
Why oh why could they not open Tomorrow Thursday or Friday.
Leo if you read these maybe explain to us all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cavan19 on July 21, 2021, 03:04:30 PM
Quote from: joemamas on July 21, 2021, 02:59:49 PM
Quote from: joemamas on July 17, 2021, 06:15:42 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2021, 06:20:06 PM
Old news Benny, we know the governments fucked up at the start, so how you fixing it now? Don't vote them in when you vote next day

Bingo.

Just look at the pathetic quote from Dr L on Wednesday last.

"We are targeting Monday 26th, really because it has to go through the Seanad, and we need to allow the president time to consider the bill and what's in it, and we need to get some regulations in place and things like that in place"

Btw they need 11 days to do that. Unbelievable.

Breaking news,
The President signed off on this today, 7 days later. but yet cannot open until Monday.
so only another weekend of no indoor dining, now down to five left in the summer.
Why oh why could they not open Tomorrow Thursday or Friday.
Leo if you read these maybe explain to us all.

Try him on twitter but you wont get a response anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 21, 2021, 03:46:41 PM
Not much point opening if you have no stuff in to sell.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 21, 2021, 05:39:25 PM
Quote from: joemamas on July 21, 2021, 02:59:49 PM
Breaking news,
The President signed off on this today, 7 days later. but yet cannot open until Monday.
so only another weekend of no indoor dining, now down to five left in the summer.
Why oh why could they not open Tomorrow Thursday or Friday.
Leo if you read these maybe explain to us all.

Mind you, if there was ever a weekend in which outdoor dining was possible or even desirable, then this is it.
I suspect they need a delay to get the vaccination checking app or something like that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 22, 2021, 10:51:23 AM
Bozo's let it RIP policy taking effect

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2021/0722/1236563-australia-and-new-zealand-pull-out-of-world-cup/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on July 22, 2021, 12:10:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 22, 2021, 10:51:23 AM
Bozo's let it RIP policy taking effect

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2021/0722/1236563-australia-and-new-zealand-pull-out-of-world-cup/
Nothing to do with them making such a mess of vaccinations then? You certainly can't accuse Bojo of that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 22, 2021, 01:10:52 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/a18756ad-0b72-44ad-b90a-44f636787a75Kate Bedingfield, the White House director of communications, told CNBC on Tuesday that she thought social media companies should be held accountable for vaccine misinformation published on their platforms.

She said the White House was "reviewing" Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, which grants social media companies legal immunity for content which users publish on their platforms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on July 22, 2021, 01:14:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 22, 2021, 01:10:52 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/a18756ad-0b72-44ad-b90a-44f636787a75Kate Bedingfield, the White House director of communications, told CNBC on Tuesday that she thought social media companies should be held accountable for vaccine misinformation published on their platforms.

She said the White House was "reviewing" Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, which grants social media companies legal immunity for content which users publish on their platforms.

About time this was looked at.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 22, 2021, 01:30:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 22, 2021, 01:10:52 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/a18756ad-0b72-44ad-b90a-44f636787a75Kate Bedingfield, the White House director of communications, told CNBC on Tuesday that she thought social media companies should be held accountable for vaccine misinformation published on their platforms.

She said the White House was "reviewing" Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, which grants social media companies legal immunity for content which users publish on their platforms.

Who says it's misinformation though? Because it goes against the official government statement?

In that case, anyone tweeting anything contrary to the official British government statement regarding  Ballymurphy, Bloody Sunday, Aidan McAnespie etc etc, is spreading misinformation too, and therefore need silenced?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on July 22, 2021, 01:53:20 PM
"Cancel culture" is one thing but this is potentially very insidious, be careful what you wish for!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 22, 2021, 07:55:25 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-1-189-new-cases-confirmed-in-state-with-23-patients-in-icu-1.4627625
1378 cases
96 in hospital
23 ICU
The five-day moving average of cases has increased from 300 to 1,189 cases per day over one month

Donegal has 725 per 100,000; Louth is 474 per 100,000; Dublin is at 307 per 100,000; Limerick stands at 258 per 100,000; and Galway has 257 per 100,000
Tánaiste Leo Varadkar said earlier on Wednesday that he expects the fourth wave of Covid-19, driven by the Delta variant, to peak at 3,000 to 4,000 cases per day but with very low hospitalisation and death numbers.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on July 23, 2021, 07:46:29 AM
Anyone have any idea of numbers in ICUs over the years ,  since this handlin started?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 23, 2021, 08:37:16 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 22, 2021, 07:55:25 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-1-189-new-cases-confirmed-in-state-with-23-patients-in-icu-1.4627625
1378 cases
96 in hospital
23 ICU
The five-day moving average of cases has increased from 300 to 1,189 cases per day over one month

Donegal has 725 per 100,000; Louth is 474 per 100,000; Dublin is at 307 per 100,000; Limerick stands at 258 per 100,000; and Galway has 257 per 100,000
Tánaiste Leo Varadkar said earlier on Wednesday that he expects the fourth wave of Covid-19, driven by the Delta variant, to peak at 3,000 to 4,000 cases per day but with very low hospitalisation and death numbers.

Obviously these new variants are going to have less deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TabClear on July 23, 2021, 09:02:19 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 23, 2021, 08:37:16 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 22, 2021, 07:55:25 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-1-189-new-cases-confirmed-in-state-with-23-patients-in-icu-1.4627625
1378 cases
96 in hospital
23 ICU
The five-day moving average of cases has increased from 300 to 1,189 cases per day over one month

Donegal has 725 per 100,000; Louth is 474 per 100,000; Dublin is at 307 per 100,000; Limerick stands at 258 per 100,000; and Galway has 257 per 100,000
Tánaiste Leo Varadkar said earlier on Wednesday that he expects the fourth wave of Covid-19, driven by the Delta variant, to peak at 3,000 to 4,000 cases per day but with very low hospitalisation and death numbers.

Obviously these new variants are going to have less deaths.

Is there a big difference in the mortality rates on the new variants? i.e. is Delta more deadly than the beta etc. i know death rates are lower now because of the vaccine as a) if you are vaccinated the likelihood is you will not be as sick, b) treatments have improved significantly and c) a greater proportion of the people catching covid now are now more likely to be younger so are naturally less likely to be seriously ill.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on July 23, 2021, 09:54:36 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

everyone over 18 has been offered it, people really need to wise up and get it done, for their own and society's sake
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 23, 2021, 10:18:29 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.
Because it might not be correct. The 40% would also include people with only one shot. Regardless of that. 40% v 60% is a significant difference.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2021, 10:27:25 AM
Plenty of people have not got the second dose, which is daft, why go and get one dose and then say, nah I'll not bother with the second? Nuts

Either get no vaccine or get both
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on July 23, 2021, 10:30:58 AM
Quote from: TabClear on July 23, 2021, 09:02:19 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 23, 2021, 08:37:16 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 22, 2021, 07:55:25 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-1-189-new-cases-confirmed-in-state-with-23-patients-in-icu-1.4627625
1378 cases
96 in hospital
23 ICU
The five-day moving average of cases has increased from 300 to 1,189 cases per day over one month

Donegal has 725 per 100,000; Louth is 474 per 100,000; Dublin is at 307 per 100,000; Limerick stands at 258 per 100,000; and Galway has 257 per 100,000
Tánaiste Leo Varadkar said earlier on Wednesday that he expects the fourth wave of Covid-19, driven by the Delta variant, to peak at 3,000 to 4,000 cases per day but with very low hospitalisation and death numbers.

Obviously these new variants are going to have less deaths.

Is there a big difference in the mortality rates on the new variants? i.e. is Delta more deadly than the beta etc. i know death rates are lower now because of the vaccine as a) if you are vaccinated the likelihood is you will not be as sick, b) treatments have improved significantly and c) a greater proportion of the people catching covid now are now more likely to be younger so are naturally less likely to be seriously ill.
Delta is less deadly. ICU cases are lower.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 23, 2021, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.

What's your alternative to the vaccine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 23, 2021, 10:50:50 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.

Eh? They kind of did by saying 60% had the vaccine. Would you rather the headline read "40% of those admitted to hospital have been vaccinated"?

Mind you it would be interesting to read how many of those 40% are double vaccinated and how long they have been for as I imagine it would go to less than 40 have two vaccines and have had two for more than 14 days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on July 23, 2021, 11:00:17 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.
When you look at the percentage of the population vaccinated and the demographic that are vaccinated. It is stark that so many in hospital are coming from the smaller, younger unvaccinated population.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 11:34:39 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 23, 2021, 10:50:50 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.

Eh? They kind of did by saying 60% had the vaccine. Would you rather the headline read "40% of those admitted to hospital have been vaccinated"?

Mind you it would be interesting to read how many of those 40% are double vaccinated and how long they have been for as I imagine it would go to less than 40 have two vaccines and have had two for more than 14 days.

If it's the truth, yes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 23, 2021, 11:38:29 AM
Right. Then surely people would have a right to complain that they didn't say 60% of people hospitalised haven't had the vaccine.

Can't really win there can they...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 11:38:34 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on July 23, 2021, 11:00:17 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.
When you look at the percentage of the population vaccinated and the demographic that are vaccinated. It is stark that so many in hospital are coming from the smaller, younger unvaccinated population.

I find it strange that suddenly there's s spike in cases aged 18-35 just when they're pushing the vaccine for that group. The weathers better, people are outside more, the schools are closed. If we were to see a spike in cases, surely it would have been when kids were still at school, congregated indoors in classrooms, buses etc, and the weather was worse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 23, 2021, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.

What's your alternative to the vaccine?

Ivermectin.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 23, 2021, 11:54:38 AM
Heard on radio if we can get 47,000 more people vaccinated in NI then hospitals admissions will for Covid will drop by 20%.

If hospital admissions continue to rise the government will take action. And I would fully support those who are unvaccinated to have restrictions put on their everyday life. People need protecting. The vaccination program will not run indefinitely so people need to choose if they are happy with those limitations or not. If they are then that is fine but if they complain they should be shot down immediately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on July 23, 2021, 11:58:54 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 11:54:38 AM
Heard on radio if we can get 47,000 more people vaccinated in NI then hospitals admissions will for Covid will drop by 20%.

If hospital admissions continue to rise the government will take action. And I would fully support those who are unvaccinated to have restrictions put on their everyday life. People need protecting. The vaccination program will not run indefinitely so people need to choose if they are happy with those limitations or not. If they are then that is fine but if they complain they should be shot down immediately.

The problem is that even if we get the 47k vaccinated it is 14 days after their second vaccine before they are covered.

That is well over a month away.

Which means that the next month+ is vital
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on July 23, 2021, 12:02:12 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 23, 2021, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.

What's your alternative to the vaccine?

Ivermectin.

Ivermectin hasn't been proven as a treatment for covid and a large trial into its benefits was recently halted. If you're anti vaccine that's one thing, but if you're putting your faith in this then that's just bat s**t crazy. That should only be used for the treatment of animals.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 23, 2021, 12:03:23 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 23, 2021, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.

What's your alternative to the vaccine?

Ivermectin.

This is your silver bullet??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 23, 2021, 12:04:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 23, 2021, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.

What's your alternative to the vaccine?

Ivermectin.

Without going into the details of how effective Ivermectin is or isn't as there's still a huge question mark over it. (Read this as a start- https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns)  . It's a treatment of Covid not a preventative measure. You will soon over run the nhs just using Ivermectin.

EDIT - D7 got there first.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 12:07:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 11:54:38 AM
Heard on radio if we can get 47,000 more people vaccinated in NI then hospitals admissions will for Covid will drop by 20%.

If hospital admissions continue to rise the government will take action. And I would fully support those who are unvaccinated to have restrictions put on their everyday life. People need protecting. The vaccination program will not run indefinitely so people need to choose if they are happy with those limitations or not. If they are then that is fine but if they complain they should be shot down immediately.

Yes it will. People will constantly have to get jabbed, whether it's been proven to work or not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 12:22:12 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 12:07:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 11:54:38 AM
Heard on radio if we can get 47,000 more people vaccinated in NI then hospitals admissions will for Covid will drop by 20%.

If hospital admissions continue to rise the government will take action. And I would fully support those who are unvaccinated to have restrictions put on their everyday life. People need protecting. The vaccination program will not run indefinitely so people need to choose if they are happy with those limitations or not. If they are then that is fine but if they complain they should be shot down immediately.

Yes it will. People will constantly have to get jabbed, whether it's been proven to work or not.

Canada for one have purchased booster shots for well into 2024. The vaccination program ain't ending anytime soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2021, 12:27:16 PM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 12:22:12 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 12:07:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 11:54:38 AM
Heard on radio if we can get 47,000 more people vaccinated in NI then hospitals admissions will for Covid will drop by 20%.

If hospital admissions continue to rise the government will take action. And I would fully support those who are unvaccinated to have restrictions put on their everyday life. People need protecting. The vaccination program will not run indefinitely so people need to choose if they are happy with those limitations or not. If they are then that is fine but if they complain they should be shot down immediately.

Yes it will. People will constantly have to get jabbed, whether it's been proven to work or not.

Canada for one have purchased booster shots for well into 2024. The vaccination program ain't ending anytime soon.

Vaccinations have been around for years, why would it end any day soon?

We've been vaccinated and have had ours kids vaccinated, that will continue, unless we want smallpox  TB and other such illnesses coming back
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 23, 2021, 12:33:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 23, 2021, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.

What's your alternative to the vaccine?

Ivermectin.

So you don't want the vaccine, which comes with overwhelming medical and scientific support behind it. Instead you want Ivermectin, a drug which even the manufacturer says has not been proven to have any real effect on Covid?

https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/ (https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/)

Do you only "trust" science and "expertise" when it comes from the anti-government, anti-intellectual sphere?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on July 23, 2021, 12:33:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2021, 12:27:16 PM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 12:22:12 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 12:07:07 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 11:54:38 AM
Heard on radio if we can get 47,000 more people vaccinated in NI then hospitals admissions will for Covid will drop by 20%.

If hospital admissions continue to rise the government will take action. And I would fully support those who are unvaccinated to have restrictions put on their everyday life. People need protecting. The vaccination program will not run indefinitely so people need to choose if they are happy with those limitations or not. If they are then that is fine but if they complain they should be shot down immediately.

Yes it will. People will constantly have to get jabbed, whether it's been proven to work or not.

Canada for one have purchased booster shots for well into 2024. The vaccination program ain't ending anytime soon.

Vaccinations have been around for years, why would it end any day soon?

We've been vaccinated and have had ours kids vaccinated, that will continue, unless we want smallpox  TB and other such illnesses coming back

There have always been anti science, anti vaccine nutters around. It's laughable now but when the smallpox vaccine was created a substantial minority refused to get it and there were protests in London and America. The reluctance of these sceptics led to many more deaths and to smallpox hanging around for much longer than necessary.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 23, 2021, 12:37:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 11:38:34 AM
I find it strange that suddenly there's s spike in cases aged 18-35 just when they're pushing the vaccine for that group. The weathers better, people are outside more, the schools are closed. If we were to see a spike in cases, surely it would have been when kids were still at school, congregated indoors in classrooms, buses etc, and the weather was worse.

Of course there is an increase in cases among 18-35 because these have less vaccinations than everyone else and that is why they are pushing the vaccine. The British government opened things up in July to get the cases over before the schools reopen, but there will be a surge in the autumn if people remain unvaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 23, 2021, 12:47:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 23, 2021, 12:33:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 23, 2021, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.

What's your alternative to the vaccine?

Ivermectin.

So you don't want the vaccine, which comes with overwhelming medical and scientific support behind it. Instead you want Ivermectin, a drug which even the manufacturer says has not been proven to have any real effect on Covid?

https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/ (https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/)

Do you only "trust" science and "expertise" when it comes from the anti-government, anti-intellectual sphere?

It's unreal. There's just no logic behind this position.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 23, 2021, 12:48:54 PM
How many of ye would go to Benny instead of a doctor if ye got sick?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 23, 2021, 01:34:19 PM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 12:00:15 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 11:54:38 AM
Heard on radio if we can get 47,000 more people vaccinated in NI then hospitals admissions will for Covid will drop by 20%.

If hospital admissions continue to rise the government will take action. And I would fully support those who are unvaccinated to have restrictions put on their everyday life. People need protecting. The vaccination program will not run indefinitely so people need to choose if they are happy with those limitations or not. If they are then that is fine but if they complain they should be shot down immediately.

Would you be happy for the unvaccinated to be thrown into some kind of internment camp for people's protection?

No. But we ALL have a responsibility to protect each other. So if people want to smoke they have to do that in a safe environment that protects those who don't wish to smoke. If Motorcyclists want to race their bikes they do that on closed roads. We take precautions everyday for a whole range of things. Covid is no different. We have to wear masks, endure lockdowns etc. This shouldn't be a surprise to the unvaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mackers on July 23, 2021, 01:44:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 23, 2021, 12:37:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 11:38:34 AM
I find it strange that suddenly there's s spike in cases aged 18-35 just when they're pushing the vaccine for that group. The weathers better, people are outside more, the schools are closed. If we were to see a spike in cases, surely it would have been when kids were still at school, congregated indoors in classrooms, buses etc, and the weather was worse.

Of course there is an increase in cases among 18-35 because these have less vaccinations than everyone else and that is why they are pushing the vaccine. The British government opened things up in July to get the cases over before the schools reopen, but there will be a surge in the autumn if people remain unvaccinated.
Listened to Prof Neil Ferguson on Andrew Marr on Sunday morning.  He suggested the next 6-8 weeks are massive.  He stated that previous waves were stopped by lockdowns but that this wave would only be stopped by herd immunity.  Maybe I'm giving BoJo too much credit here but I presume that that is the risk he is taking now (I'm not saying he's correct).  He's looking to reach herd immunity before the winter.  Marr asked Ferguson what percentage of the population needed to have antibodies to get to that point but he did not confirm any specific figure but said his guess would be 90% of the adult population with the current guestimate being that 70% have antibodies at the minute.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on July 23, 2021, 02:36:41 PM
Quote from: Last Man on July 22, 2021, 12:10:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 22, 2021, 10:51:23 AM
Bozo's let it RIP policy taking effect

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2021/0722/1236563-australia-and-new-zealand-pull-out-of-world-cup/
Nothing to do with them making such a mess of vaccinations then? You certainly can't accuse Bojo of that.

ahem,
    Questions being asked as to why 12 to 18 yo's aren't being vaccinated and it seems Bozo and his mates didn't procure enough BioNTec which is deemed to be the best for this age group.

A lot of EU countries are either catching up or ahead of GB in terms of vaccinated people and will overtake them in getting teenagers vaccinated and back into schools.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 23, 2021, 03:17:12 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 23, 2021, 02:36:41 PM
Quote from: Last Man on July 22, 2021, 12:10:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 22, 2021, 10:51:23 AM
Bozo's let it RIP policy taking effect

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2021/0722/1236563-australia-and-new-zealand-pull-out-of-world-cup/
Nothing to do with them making such a mess of vaccinations then? You certainly can't accuse Bojo of that.

ahem,
    Questions being asked as to why 12 to 18 yo's aren't being vaccinated and it seems Bozo and his mates didn't procure enough BioNTec which is deemed to be the best for this age group.

A lot of EU countries are either catching up or ahead of GB in terms of vaccinated people and will overtake them in getting teenagers vaccinated and back into schools.
They'll pick up the antibodies handy enough if they catch covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on July 23, 2021, 03:34:38 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 23, 2021, 03:17:12 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 23, 2021, 02:36:41 PM
Quote from: Last Man on July 22, 2021, 12:10:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 22, 2021, 10:51:23 AM
Bozo's let it RIP policy taking effect

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2021/0722/1236563-australia-and-new-zealand-pull-out-of-world-cup/
Nothing to do with them making such a mess of vaccinations then? You certainly can't accuse Bojo of that.

ahem,
    Questions being asked as to why 12 to 18 yo's aren't being vaccinated and it seems Bozo and his mates didn't procure enough BioNTec which is deemed to be the best for this age group.

A lot of EU countries are either catching up or ahead of GB in terms of vaccinated people and will overtake them in getting teenagers vaccinated and back into schools.
They'll pick up the antibodies handy enough if they catch covid.

And be lucky if they don't get long Covid?

There's no doubting they are going for herd immunity again now that Boris has vaccinated/killed off all the over 80's whereas NZ are holding off until they've vaccinated everyone from 12 up before reducing restrictions.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 05:11:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 23, 2021, 12:37:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 11:38:34 AM
I find it strange that suddenly there's s spike in cases aged 18-35 just when they're pushing the vaccine for that group. The weathers better, people are outside more, the schools are closed. If we were to see a spike in cases, surely it would have been when kids were still at school, congregated indoors in classrooms, buses etc, and the weather was worse.

Of course there is an increase in cases among 18-35 because these have less vaccinations than everyone else and that is why they are pushing the vaccine. The British government opened things up in July to get the cases over before the schools reopen, but there will be a surge in the autumn if people remain unvaccinated.

18-35 group weren't vaccinated back last winter, yet there was no talk of a surge in that group then. Now when the vaccine rollout has filtered down to those ages, suddenly there's a surge. Funny that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 23, 2021, 05:13:35 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 23, 2021, 02:36:41 PM
ahem,
    Questions being asked as to why 12 to 18 yo's aren't being vaccinated and it seems Bozo and his mates didn't procure enough BioNTec which is deemed to be the best for this age group.

A lot of EU countries are either catching up or ahead of GB in terms of vaccinated people and will overtake them in getting teenagers vaccinated and back into schools.

The British got off to a good start on the vaccines, after much mismanagement of Covid otherwise. Their plan was probably fairly OK for the original variant, get most adults vaccinated and some people with the disease and you'd be pretty much at a level where you have herd immunity. With this Delta though, having 60% of the population with Covid means it still circulates widely, and with so much of it around some of the 60& get it too although usually without serious illness. But Britain more or less declared it all over and so are not now doing many vaccinations, places like Canada and Singapore are passing them out and doing more vaccinations, and the EU countries like Spain and Ireland are not far behind.
But nobody will have a lot of teenagers vaccinated by September.

Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 05:11:51 PM
18-35 group weren't vaccinated back last winter, yet there was no talk of a surge in that group then. Now when the vaccine rollout has filtered down to those ages, suddenly there's a surge. Funny that.

You won't have a surge if things are closed.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 05:29:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 23, 2021, 12:33:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 23, 2021, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.

What's your alternative to the vaccine?

Ivermectin.

So you don't want the vaccine, which comes with overwhelming medical and scientific support behind it. Instead you want Ivermectin, a drug which even the manufacturer says has not been proven to have any real effect on Covid?

https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/ (https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/)

Do you only "trust" science and "expertise" when it comes from the anti-government, anti-intellectual sphere?

There's been plenty of success with ivermectin in Asian/African countries. You just don't hear about it on BBC or Sky.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 23, 2021, 05:37:45 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 05:29:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 23, 2021, 12:33:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 23, 2021, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.

What's your alternative to the vaccine?

Ivermectin.

So you don't want the vaccine, which comes with overwhelming medical and scientific support behind it. Instead you want Ivermectin, a drug which even the manufacturer says has not been proven to have any real effect on Covid?

https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/ (https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/)

Do you only "trust" science and "expertise" when it comes from the anti-government, anti-intellectual sphere?

There's been plenty of success with ivermectin in Asian/African countries. You just don't hear about it on BBC or Sky.

Evidence?

Did you read the article?

You still didn't answer why dubious treatments which do not yet have scientific or medical support are A-ok, but anything in terms of official government and professional guidelines and vaccines are all a plot or conspiracy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on July 23, 2021, 06:33:26 PM
Herd might not be that far away - it's GB in effect tho, not NI. 

The major caveat being the 'freedom day' effect isn't known yet.

BBC News - Daily Covid cases down for fourth day in UK
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57942217
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 07:49:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 23, 2021, 05:37:45 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 05:29:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 23, 2021, 12:33:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 23, 2021, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.

What's your alternative to the vaccine?

Ivermectin.

So you don't want the vaccine, which comes with overwhelming medical and scientific support behind it. Instead you want Ivermectin, a drug which even the manufacturer says has not been proven to have any real effect on Covid?

https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/ (https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/)

Do you only "trust" science and "expertise" when it comes from the anti-government, anti-intellectual sphere?

There's been plenty of success with ivermectin in Asian/African countries. You just don't hear about it on BBC or Sky.

Evidence?

Did you read the article?

You still didn't answer why dubious treatments which do not yet have scientific or medical support are A-ok, but anything in terms of official government and professional guidelines and vaccines are all a plot or conspiracy.

There's plenty of material if you care to look. But let's face it, any medical person who recommends any other treatment  other than the approved vaccines will be struck off.

Look at what doctors have been ordered to do during the pandemic: listing deaths as covid if tested positive within 28 days. Doctors aren't stupid. They know that distorts the figures, but they do it because otherwise it's goodbye to their medical career. Or maybe that's just another conspiracy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dec on July 23, 2021, 08:23:06 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 07:49:32 PM

There's plenty of material if you care to look. But let's face it, any medical person who recommends any other treatment  other than the approved vaccines will be struck off.

Look at what doctors have been ordered to do during the pandemic: listing deaths as covid if tested positive within 28 days. Doctors aren't stupid. They know that distorts the figures, but they do it because otherwise it's goodbye to their medical career. Or maybe that's just another conspiracy

It is amazing how much "evidence" conspiracy loons are aware of, but seem incapable of providing links to the "evidence"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 23, 2021, 08:26:39 PM
Is it better or worse than drinking chlorine though is the question.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: nrico2006 on July 23, 2021, 08:49:09 PM
Some space cadets out there, just take the jag.

What is the Autumn/Winter going to look like, will there be more lockdowns or are we done with that?  What are the best, middle and worst case scenarios?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 23, 2021, 09:09:22 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on July 23, 2021, 08:49:09 PM
Some space cadets out there, just take the jag.

What is the Autumn/Winter going to look like, will there be more lockdowns or are we done with that?  What are the best, middle and worst case scenarios?
By then near enough every adult should be vaccinated so I don't see how anyone could justify another lockdown. Be even less compliance this time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 09:20:53 PM
Quote from: dec on July 23, 2021, 08:23:06 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 07:49:32 PM

There's plenty of material if you care to look. But let's face it, any medical person who recommends any other treatment  other than the approved vaccines will be struck off.

Look at what doctors have been ordered to do during the pandemic: listing deaths as covid if tested positive within 28 days. Doctors aren't stupid. They know that distorts the figures, but they do it because otherwise it's goodbye to their medical career. Or maybe that's just another conspiracy

It is amazing how much "evidence" conspiracy loons are aware of, but seem incapable of providing links to the "evidence"

Would it matter if I provided links? Your mind is already made up.

I noticed how you conveniently ignored the rest of the post.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 23, 2021, 09:30:57 PM
The irony of that comment is so is yours though Benny.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dec on July 23, 2021, 09:32:10 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 09:20:53 PM
Quote from: dec on July 23, 2021, 08:23:06 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 07:49:32 PM

There's plenty of material if you care to look. But let's face it, any medical person who recommends any other treatment  other than the approved vaccines will be struck off.

Look at what doctors have been ordered to do during the pandemic: listing deaths as covid if tested positive within 28 days. Doctors aren't stupid. They know that distorts the figures, but they do it because otherwise it's goodbye to their medical career. Or maybe that's just another conspiracy

It is amazing how much "evidence" conspiracy loons are aware of, but seem incapable of providing links to the "evidence"

Would it matter if I provided links? Your mind is already made up.

I noticed how you conveniently ignored the rest of the post.

Yes it would matter. But like most conspiracy nuts you spout nonsense and can't back it up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Olly on July 23, 2021, 11:32:42 PM
Got my third jab today. Hoping for a 4th by the end of the year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 24, 2021, 12:00:04 AM
Quote from: Olly on July 23, 2021, 11:32:42 PM
Got my third jab today. Hoping for a 4th by the end of the year.

I figured that you would be in the vulnerable category, Olly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 24, 2021, 12:16:04 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 23, 2021, 09:09:22 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on July 23, 2021, 08:49:09 PM
Some space cadets out there, just take the jag.

What is the Autumn/Winter going to look like, will there be more lockdowns or are we done with that?  What are the best, middle and worst case scenarios?
By then near enough every adult should be vaccinated so I don't see how anyone could justify another lockdown. Be even less compliance this time.

You cannot make folk like you up. Madness I tell thee
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 07:52:39 AM
A fella around my way has told his staff that they are not allowed to have the jabs, if they do he'll sack them, won't let anyone in the house either who's been jabbed, his son is a second year medical student and if forced to have the jab will drop out of medicine!

He states that if you come into contact with someone who's got the vaccine they'll infect you with some condition! He also said that this vaccine is a world conspiracy to wipe out 5 billion people by the next winter!!

Now this guy is a complete p***k and I don't know one person who likes him! Had the confederate flag in his garden and vote trump banners up!

Oh, and he's getting that drug in that's not been approved and taking it!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 24, 2021, 08:08:28 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 24, 2021, 12:16:04 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 23, 2021, 09:09:22 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on July 23, 2021, 08:49:09 PM
Some space cadets out there, just take the jag.

What is the Autumn/Winter going to look like, will there be more lockdowns or are we done with that?  What are the best, middle and worst case scenarios?
By then near enough every adult should be vaccinated so I don't see how anyone could justify another lockdown. Be even less compliance this time.

You cannot make folk like you up. Madness I tell thee
???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 24, 2021, 11:06:53 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 07:49:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 23, 2021, 05:37:45 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 05:29:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 23, 2021, 12:33:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 23, 2021, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.

What's your alternative to the vaccine?

Ivermectin.

So you don't want the vaccine, which comes with overwhelming medical and scientific support behind it. Instead you want Ivermectin, a drug which even the manufacturer says has not been proven to have any real effect on Covid?

https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/ (https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/)

Do you only "trust" science and "expertise" when it comes from the anti-government, anti-intellectual sphere?

There's been plenty of success with ivermectin in Asian/African countries. You just don't hear about it on BBC or Sky.

Evidence?

Did you read the article?

You still didn't answer why dubious treatments which do not yet have scientific or medical support are A-ok, but anything in terms of official government and professional guidelines and vaccines are all a plot or conspiracy.

There's plenty of material if you care to look. But let's face it, any medical person who recommends any other treatment  other than the approved vaccines will be struck off.

Look at what doctors have been ordered to do during the pandemic: listing deaths as covid if tested positive within 28 days. Doctors aren't stupid. They know that distorts the figures, but they do it because otherwise it's goodbye to their medical career. Or maybe that's just another conspiracy

Material such as...?

Where are doctors being struck off for treating patients? Vaccines come before infection. You don't treat someone with a vaccine.

But assuming you mean doctors who encourage "other treatments" in the event of an eventual infection rather than advising their patients to get vaccinated, you're still not answering the question: why are such doctors people whose advice is to be followed, while those who do follow the "approved" guidelines are not to be trusted? Is there something more robust and scientifically/medically more accurate about the "other" approaches?

I have no idea what you're on about with the 28 days thing. Feel free to expand, including explaining exactly what and why it's done and why it's wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on July 24, 2021, 11:13:24 AM
A serious increase in neurological disorders associated with spike proteins in vaccines appears to be likely according to some doctors.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 24, 2021, 11:06:53 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 07:49:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 23, 2021, 05:37:45 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 05:29:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 23, 2021, 12:33:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 23, 2021, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.

What's your alternative to the vaccine?

Ivermectin.

So you don't want the vaccine, which comes with overwhelming medical and scientific support behind it. Instead you want Ivermectin, a drug which even the manufacturer says has not been proven to have any real effect on Covid?

https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/ (https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/)

Do you only "trust" science and "expertise" when it comes from the anti-government, anti-intellectual sphere?

There's been plenty of success with ivermectin in Asian/African countries. You just don't hear about it on BBC or Sky.

Evidence?

Did you read the article?

You still didn't answer why dubious treatments which do not yet have scientific or medical support are A-ok, but anything in terms of official government and professional guidelines and vaccines are all a plot or conspiracy.

There's plenty of material if you care to look. But let's face it, any medical person who recommends any other treatment  other than the approved vaccines will be struck off.

Look at what doctors have been ordered to do during the pandemic: listing deaths as covid if tested positive within 28 days. Doctors aren't stupid. They know that distorts the figures, but they do it because otherwise it's goodbye to their medical career. Or maybe that's just another conspiracy

Material such as...?

Where are doctors being struck off for treating patients? Vaccines come before infection. You don't treat someone with a vaccine.

But assuming you mean doctors who encourage "other treatments" in the event of an eventual infection rather than advising their patients to get vaccinated, you're still not answering the question: why are such doctors people whose advice is to be followed, while those who do follow the "approved" guidelines are not to be trusted? Is there something more robust and scientifically/medically more accurate about the "other" approaches?

I have no idea what you're on about with the 28 days thing. Feel free to expand, including explaining exactly what and why it's done and why it's wrong.

I'm saying that doctors aren't going to go against what the government/WHO says, as it could mean the end of their medical career. There were doctors who have been struck off for linking MMR jabs to autism.

Im talking about death certs labelled as covid deaths if they had a positive case in the previous 28 days. These are included as covid deaths even if someone eventually died of drowning, car accident, suicide, stroke etc. Doctors know this distorts actual covid deaths, but they go along with it, as the alternate is losing their jobs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 11:32:26 AM
Quote from: Rudi on July 24, 2021, 11:13:24 AM
A serious increase in neurological disorders associated with spike proteins in vaccines appears to be likely according to some doctors.

The spike proteins produced in the body from COVID-19 vaccination are widely considered safe, whether from mRNA vaccines (ex. Moderna, Pfizer) or viral vector vaccines (ex. AstraZeneca, Johnson & Johnson). These spike proteins from COVID-19 vaccination play an important role in training the immune system to protect the body from COVID-19.

False claims about the toxicity of spike proteins from COVID-19 vaccination often misinterpret studies, and fail to take into account how spike proteins from COVID-19 vaccination behave differently than the spike proteins from natural COVID-19 infection.

Vaccines go through very rigorous standards set by the U.S. FDA to meet safety and efficacy criteria. Thousands of people underwent clinical trials over several months to understand if there were any side effects or risks associated with the vaccines. The vaccines are still being monitored for any safety concerns or patterns being seen that can risk human well-being.

So far, there is no scientific evidence available that suggests that spike proteins created in our bodies from the COVID-19 vaccines are toxic or damaging our organs. COVID-19 vaccines are relatively new and long-term side effects are yet to be known. However, the vaccines have met the safety standards of many government and international safety agencies.

Several systems help us monitor vaccine safety. In the United States these include the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), The Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD), the Post-License Rapid Immunization Safety Monitoring (PRISM), and the Clinical Immunization Safety Assessment Project (CISA). These systems are used by scientists to monitor side effects and any other patterns of risks from vaccines.

The COVID-19 vaccine has been administered to 135 million people in the United States. As expected with any vaccine, some fully vaccinated people still got sick, hospitalized, and/or died. These "breakthrough cases" are a very small percentage of those vaccinated (<0.001%) and are being studied to detect any relevant patterns.

So far no scientific evidence is available that gives credence to claims that spike proteins created from vaccines travel in our bloodstreams. Research shows that spike proteins stay stuck to the surface of the cells around the vaccine's injection site. They are not known to wander around to other parts of the body.

A very tiny dose of the vaccine does make it to the bloodstream (about 1%), but as soon as it gets to the liver, the enzymes there destroy it completely. The U.S. CDC refers to the spike protein made from the vaccine as "harmless."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on July 24, 2021, 11:36:58 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 07:52:39 AM
A fella around my way has told his staff that they are not allowed to have the jabs, if they do he'll sack them, won't let anyone in the house either who's been jabbed, his son is a second year medical student and if forced to have the jab will drop out of medicine!

He states that if you come into contact with someone who's got the vaccine they'll infect you with some condition! He also said that this vaccine is a world conspiracy to wipe out 5 billion people by the next winter!!

Now this guy is a complete p***k and I don't know one person who likes him! Had the confederate flag in his garden and vote trump banners up!

Oh, and he's getting that drug in that's not been approved and taking it!

Is this Belfast? That employer needs reported.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:42:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 07:52:39 AM
A fella around my way has told his staff that they are not allowed to have the jabs, if they do he'll sack them, won't let anyone in the house either who's been jabbed, his son is a second year medical student and if forced to have the jab will drop out of medicine!

He states that if you come into contact with someone who's got the vaccine they'll infect you with some condition! He also said that this vaccine is a world conspiracy to wipe out 5 billion people by the next winter!!

Now this guy is a complete p***k and I don't know one person who likes him! Had the confederate flag in his garden and vote trump banners up!

Oh, and he's getting that drug in that's not been approved and taking it!

Is that any different to being told you MUST get the vaccine, otherwise you lose your job, and will be barred from shops/establishments etc?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 11:44:25 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 24, 2021, 11:36:58 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 07:52:39 AM
A fella around my way has told his staff that they are not allowed to have the jabs, if they do he'll sack them, won't let anyone in the house either who's been jabbed, his son is a second year medical student and if forced to have the jab will drop out of medicine!

He states that if you come into contact with someone who's got the vaccine they'll infect you with some condition! He also said that this vaccine is a world conspiracy to wipe out 5 billion people by the next winter!!

Now this guy is a complete p***k and I don't know one person who likes him! Had the confederate flag in his garden and vote trump banners up!

Oh, and he's getting that drug in that's not been approved and taking it!

Is this Belfast? That employer needs reported.

Owns an engineering firm Belfast area , he's always been a p***k
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 24, 2021, 12:10:18 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:42:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 07:52:39 AM
A fella around my way has told his staff that they are not allowed to have the jabs, if they do he'll sack them, won't let anyone in the house either who's been jabbed, his son is a second year medical student and if forced to have the jab will drop out of medicine!

He states that if you come into contact with someone who's got the vaccine they'll infect you with some condition! He also said that this vaccine is a world conspiracy to wipe out 5 billion people by the next winter!!

Now this guy is a complete p***k and I don't know one person who likes him! Had the confederate flag in his garden and vote trump banners up!

Oh, and he's getting that drug in that's not been approved and taking it!

Is that any different to being told you MUST get the vaccine, otherwise you lose your job, and will be barred from shops/establishments etc?

Yes.

One is based on facts and evidence and the greater good.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 24, 2021, 12:14:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 24, 2021, 11:06:53 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 07:49:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 23, 2021, 05:37:45 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 05:29:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 23, 2021, 12:33:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 23, 2021, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.

What's your alternative to the vaccine?

Ivermectin.

So you don't want the vaccine, which comes with overwhelming medical and scientific support behind it. Instead you want Ivermectin, a drug which even the manufacturer says has not been proven to have any real effect on Covid?

https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/ (https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/)

Do you only "trust" science and "expertise" when it comes from the anti-government, anti-intellectual sphere?

There's been plenty of success with ivermectin in Asian/African countries. You just don't hear about it on BBC or Sky.

Evidence?

Did you read the article?

You still didn't answer why dubious treatments which do not yet have scientific or medical support are A-ok, but anything in terms of official government and professional guidelines and vaccines are all a plot or conspiracy.

There's plenty of material if you care to look. But let's face it, any medical person who recommends any other treatment  other than the approved vaccines will be struck off.

Look at what doctors have been ordered to do during the pandemic: listing deaths as covid if tested positive within 28 days. Doctors aren't stupid. They know that distorts the figures, but they do it because otherwise it's goodbye to their medical career. Or maybe that's just another conspiracy

Material such as...?

Where are doctors being struck off for treating patients? Vaccines come before infection. You don't treat someone with a vaccine.

But assuming you mean doctors who encourage "other treatments" in the event of an eventual infection rather than advising their patients to get vaccinated, you're still not answering the question: why are such doctors people whose advice is to be followed, while those who do follow the "approved" guidelines are not to be trusted? Is there something more robust and scientifically/medically more accurate about the "other" approaches?

I have no idea what you're on about with the 28 days thing. Feel free to expand, including explaining exactly what and why it's done and why it's wrong.

I'm saying that doctors aren't going to go against what the government/WHO says, as it could mean the end of their medical career. There were doctors who have been struck off for linking MMR jabs to autism.

Im talking about death certs labelled as covid deaths if they had a positive case in the previous 28 days. These are included as covid deaths even if someone eventually died of drowning, car accident, suicide, stroke etc. Doctors know this distorts actual covid deaths, but they go along with it, as the alternate is losing their jobs.

The MMR stuff is pure quackery and Ridgefield (or whatever his name is) engaged in scientific misconduct and caused huge damage.

Still nothing concrete on the death certificate stuff and still no answer about why "other" doctor = good and mainstream medicine = bad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 24, 2021, 12:36:28 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:42:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 07:52:39 AM
A fella around my way has told his staff that they are not allowed to have the jabs, if they do he'll sack them, won't let anyone in the house either who's been jabbed, his son is a second year medical student and if forced to have the jab will drop out of medicine!

He states that if you come into contact with someone who's got the vaccine they'll infect you with some condition! He also said that this vaccine is a world conspiracy to wipe out 5 billion people by the next winter!!

Now this guy is a complete p***k and I don't know one person who likes him! Had the confederate flag in his garden and vote trump banners up!

Oh, and he's getting that drug in that's not been approved and taking it!

Is that any different to being told you MUST get the vaccine, otherwise you lose your job, and will be barred from shops/establishments etc?

Benny, the vaccine is the silver bullet. It is, like the MMR vaccine etc humanity's way to get back to normal. No one wants this pandemic to drag on any longer. By all means be doubly wide when it comes to the likes of politicians etc, the world is full of self serving charlatans, but put your trust in the medical professionals. If I was around in 1900, at my age, I'd probably be in the grave, but thanks to science and modern medicine I've another 30 odd years to live.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 12:47:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 24, 2021, 12:14:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 24, 2021, 11:06:53 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 07:49:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 23, 2021, 05:37:45 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 05:29:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 23, 2021, 12:33:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 23, 2021, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.

What's your alternative to the vaccine?

Ivermectin.

So you don't want the vaccine, which comes with overwhelming medical and scientific support behind it. Instead you want Ivermectin, a drug which even the manufacturer says has not been proven to have any real effect on Covid?

https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/ (https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/)

Do you only "trust" science and "expertise" when it comes from the anti-government, anti-intellectual sphere?

There's been plenty of success with ivermectin in Asian/African countries. You just don't hear about it on BBC or Sky.

Evidence?

Did you read the article?

You still didn't answer why dubious treatments which do not yet have scientific or medical support are A-ok, but anything in terms of official government and professional guidelines and vaccines are all a plot or conspiracy.

There's plenty of material if you care to look. But let's face it, any medical person who recommends any other treatment  other than the approved vaccines will be struck off.

Look at what doctors have been ordered to do during the pandemic: listing deaths as covid if tested positive within 28 days. Doctors aren't stupid. They know that distorts the figures, but they do it because otherwise it's goodbye to their medical career. Or maybe that's just another conspiracy

Material such as...?

Where are doctors being struck off for treating patients? Vaccines come before infection. You don't treat someone with a vaccine.

But assuming you mean doctors who encourage "other treatments" in the event of an eventual infection rather than advising their patients to get vaccinated, you're still not answering the question: why are such doctors people whose advice is to be followed, while those who do follow the "approved" guidelines are not to be trusted? Is there something more robust and scientifically/medically more accurate about the "other" approaches?

I have no idea what you're on about with the 28 days thing. Feel free to expand, including explaining exactly what and why it's done and why it's wrong.

I'm saying that doctors aren't going to go against what the government/WHO says, as it could mean the end of their medical career. There were doctors who have been struck off for linking MMR jabs to autism.

Im talking about death certs labelled as covid deaths if they had a positive case in the previous 28 days. These are included as covid deaths even if someone eventually died of drowning, car accident, suicide, stroke etc. Doctors know this distorts actual covid deaths, but they go along with it, as the alternate is losing their jobs.

The MMR stuff is pure quackery and Ridgefield (or whatever his name is) engaged in scientific misconduct and caused huge damage.

Still nothing concrete on the death certificate stuff and still no answer about why "other" doctor = good and mainstream medicine = bad.

I explained it. Not my fault if you still don't get it

I don't know what you think I said, but put it like this: do I think there's possible other treatments/cures out there (and not just covid)? Yes. And do I think pharmaceuticals/governments would suppress such alternative medicines in order to sell their own medicines and makes huge profits? 100% absolutely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 12:57:59 PM
Huge profits? Yes, but the countries are economically busted!!

Why would a government bankrupt itself ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 24, 2021, 01:13:22 PM
It's obvious that there's people like Benny who held an opinion at the start and are now doubling down on it rather than losing face and accepting they were wrong. There's no other explanation as too why they would be accepting of Ivermectin but not the vaccine. It's a ludicrous position.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 24, 2021, 01:17:12 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 12:47:53 PM
I explained it. Not my fault if you still don't get it

I don't know what you think I said, but put it like this: do I think there's possible other treatments/cures out there (and not just covid)? Yes. And do I think pharmaceuticals/governments would suppress such alternative medicines in order to sell their own medicines and makes huge profits? 100% absolutely.

You do realise that not all governments of the world work in concert. With Covid all over the world then some government somewhere would have tried something else and we would know about this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 02:01:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 12:57:59 PM
Huge profits? Yes, but the countries are economically busted!!

Why would a government bankrupt itself ?

Do you think politicians give a shite? As long as their own pockets are lined, that's all they care about
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 02:10:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 02:01:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 12:57:59 PM
Huge profits? Yes, but the countries are economically busted!!

Why would a government bankrupt itself ?

Do you think politicians give a shite? As long as their own pockets are lined, that's all they care about

World wide all the political parties are collectively creating a meltdown economic wise to line their pockets? Right...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 02:10:17 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 24, 2021, 12:36:28 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:42:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 07:52:39 AM
A fella around my way has told his staff that they are not allowed to have the jabs, if they do he'll sack them, won't let anyone in the house either who's been jabbed, his son is a second year medical student and if forced to have the jab will drop out of medicine!

He states that if you come into contact with someone who's got the vaccine they'll infect you with some condition! He also said that this vaccine is a world conspiracy to wipe out 5 billion people by the next winter!!

Now this guy is a complete p***k and I don't know one person who likes him! Had the confederate flag in his garden and vote trump banners up!

Oh, and he's getting that drug in that's not been approved and taking it!

Is that any different to being told you MUST get the vaccine, otherwise you lose your job, and will be barred from shops/establishments etc?

Benny, the vaccine is the silver bullet. It is, like the MMR vaccine etc humanity's way to get back to normal. No one wants this pandemic to drag on any longer. By all means be doubly wide when it comes to the likes of politicians etc, the world is full of self serving charlatans, but put your trust in the medical professionals. If I was around in 1900, at my age, I'd probably be in the grave, but thanks to science and modern medicine I've another 30 odd years to live.

Is it though?  Even though there'll have to be top up jabs for years to come? That doesn't sound like a silver  bullet to me.

MMR and the likes, are different. One jab that lasts a lifetime. That's fair enough. That's more like a silver bullet.

"No one wants this pandemic to drag on any longer". Ordinary people don't. But those who profit from it, do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 02:12:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 02:10:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 02:01:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 12:57:59 PM
Huge profits? Yes, but the countries are economically busted!!

Why would a government bankrupt itself ?

Do you think politicians give a shite? As long as their own pockets are lined, that's all they care about

World wide all the political parties are collectively creating a meltdown economic wise to line their pockets? Right...

Yeah, because that's what I said  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 02:15:19 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 02:12:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 02:10:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 02:01:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 12:57:59 PM
Huge profits? Yes, but the countries are economically busted!!

Why would a government bankrupt itself ?

Do you think politicians give a shite? As long as their own pockets are lined, that's all they care about

World wide all the political parties are collectively creating a meltdown economic wise to line their pockets? Right...

Yeah, because that's what I said  ::)

I asked you earlier and you answered it, I've highlighted it above in case you misread it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 24, 2021, 02:19:10 PM
A bar in Carrick on Shannon and a simliar is message is sent out by a number of bars now.

(https://i.ibb.co/QXnw1Jr/Screenshot-20210724-141548-2.png) (https://ibb.co/x3GTR2J)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 24, 2021, 02:24:45 PM
Glancy's is NOT in Laythrum.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 24, 2021, 02:27:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 24, 2021, 02:24:45 PM
Glancy's is NOT in Laythrum.
Edited Carrick on Shannon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 24, 2021, 02:42:08 PM
We're fighting two pandemics. Coronavirus and Stupidity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 24, 2021, 02:55:30 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 24, 2021, 02:27:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 24, 2021, 02:24:45 PM
Glancy's is NOT in Laythrum.
Edited Carrick on Shannon.
👍😀.

Cortober more correctly but Carrick will do for this forum.
Anyway that place has a large back garden and loads of tables out front.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 24, 2021, 03:01:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 24, 2021, 02:55:30 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 24, 2021, 02:27:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 24, 2021, 02:24:45 PM
Glancy's is NOT in Laythrum.
Edited Carrick on Shannon.
👍😀.

Cortober more correctly but Carrick will do for this forum.
Anyway that place has a large back garden and loads of tables out front.

Yes but plenty of other bars with smaller beer gardens than them haven't opted for indoor dining.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on July 24, 2021, 03:35:04 PM
There will be 2500 fans in Killarney stadium for the game tomorrow wearing masks and spread out but probably 20k in the town watching from beer gardens and hotels all mask less , the stupidity boggles the mind . The fear is out of control and is not backed up by data, and judging by what I read on here 95% of the country is suffering from it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on July 24, 2021, 03:48:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 24, 2021, 02:42:08 PM
We're fighting two pandemics. Coronavirus and Stupidity.

Pharmaceutical companies are actually developing a vaccine at the moment for stupidity, I suggest you take it trailer, the likes of you will create many variants of stupidity.  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: StPatsAbu on July 24, 2021, 04:17:50 PM
Anti-Vac/Mask/lockdown March in Belfast today. A few Rangers tops in the crowd tells its own tale
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on July 24, 2021, 04:18:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 24, 2021, 03:35:04 PM
There will be 2500 fans in Killarney stadium for the game tomorrow wearing masks and spread out but probably 20k in the town watching from beer gardens and hotels all mask less , the stupidity boggles the mind . The fear is out of control and is not backed up by data, and judging by what I read on here 95% of the country is suffering from it

Yip
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 04:30:59 PM
There's no solution that's going to suit everyone, the let it rip brigade haven't a care and the ultra careful will want the virus dead before surfacing.

We need something in between that'll suit everyone, ya can't have your cake and eat it.

I've been working flat out since June last year with Covid measures in place and following procedures, on a personal level I've only came into company once with someone who had Covid and we all had to isolate for ten days, no one, even his wife had caught it and this was a barbecue night with close proximity of everyone, all double jabbed no one else caught it.

Whether us being double jabbed lessened our chance of getting it or him not having anything other than an annoying cough for a day or two I don't know. His was the delta variant I think also which is very spreadable.

Who knows. I know there's no one on here that's an expert on it though  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: StPatsAbu on July 24, 2021, 05:11:04 PM
Quote from: StPatsAbu on July 24, 2021, 04:17:50 PM
Anti-Vac/Mask/lockdown March in Belfast today. A few Rangers tops in the crowd tells its own tale

Update. A GAA jersey spotted too. Armagh fan obviously ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 24, 2021, 05:14:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 24, 2021, 03:35:04 PM
There will be 2500 fans in Killarney stadium for the game tomorrow wearing masks and spread out but probably 20k in the town watching from beer gardens and hotels all mask less , the stupidity boggles the mind . The fear is out of control and is not backed up by data, and judging by what I read on here 95% of the country is suffering from it

Correct. They should have more in the stadium and ban screens in bars and hotels. This is obvious.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on July 24, 2021, 05:21:22 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 24, 2021, 03:35:04 PM
There will be 2500 fans in Killarney stadium for the game tomorrow wearing masks and spread out but probably 20k in the town watching from beer gardens and hotels all mask less , the stupidity boggles the mind . The fear is out of control and is not backed up by data, and judging by what I read on here 95% of the country is suffering from it

18k from Galway and Mayo to attend Connacht Final in Dublin. Taking probably 10k from the west to the east. All the travelling in buses, trains, shared cars, pit stops for food, toilets. Utter madness in a pandemic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on July 24, 2021, 05:21:48 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 23, 2021, 02:36:41 PM
A lot of EU countries are either catching up or ahead of GB in terms of vaccinated people
As of Thursday, only Malta (166.18 per 100 population) had a higher vaccination rate in the EU than UK (122.3).

Many of the others are closing the gap, but still may not overtake the UK as and when the number of their people willing to be vaccinated are jabbed, leaving only the hard-to-reach/hesitant/opposed/nutters/Bennycake.

For information, some other figures are:
Denmark: 117.28 (closest to UK)
Spain: 113.1
ROI: 108.24
Italy: 105.65
Germany: 105.6
France: 99.5
Poland 87.94
Romania: 48.16
Bulgaria: 28.09
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccination-rate-in-europe-by-country/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccination-rate-in-europe-by-country/)

Quote from: johnnycool on July 23, 2021, 02:36:41 PM
... and will overtake them in getting teenagers vaccinated and back into schools.
That's possible if other countries start/keep vaccinating children and the UK doesn't.

My guess is that if the UK can reach herd immunity by their existing vaccination programme, plus unvaccinated people catching it following the latest opening up (esp the young), then they are hoping to avoid vaccinating children.

But if a 4th wave surges nonetheless, BoJo may have a decision to make in the autumn/winter.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on July 24, 2021, 05:43:43 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 05:11:51 PM
18-35 group weren't vaccinated back last winter, yet there was no talk of a surge in that group then. Now when the vaccine rollout has filtered down to those ages, suddenly there's a surge. Funny that.
Can't speak for ROI, only UK.

Where back in the winter, it was the Alpha variant, which wasn't so infectious. While everyone, incl the young, were being kept in.And many younger people were getting it, but either weren't getting tested, and/or didn't know they had it (asymptomatic).

Now we have Delta variant which is much more infectious. But while the elderly are well-protected by having been vaccinated, the young are much less so, as well as going out far more now that the restrictions have been lifted and the weather is better. Also, more of the younger population goes to school, or college, or works and so comes into contact with others than older people, esp the retired.

None of which is hard to understand - if you are sufficiently open-minded to think about it, that is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on July 24, 2021, 05:54:32 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 24, 2021, 05:21:48 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 23, 2021, 02:36:41 PM
A lot of EU countries are either catching up or ahead of GB in terms of vaccinated people
As of Thursday, only Malta (166.18 per 100 population) had a higher vaccination rate in the EU than UK (122.3).

Many of the others are closing the gap, but still may not overtake the UK as and when the number of their people willing to be vaccinated are jabbed, leaving only the hard-to-reach/hesitant/opposed/nutters/Bennycake.

For information, some other figures are:
Denmark: 117.28 (closest to UK)
Spain: 113.1
ROI: 108.24
Italy: 105.65
Germany: 105.6
France: 99.5
Poland 87.94
Romania: 48.16
Bulgaria: 28.09
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccination-rate-in-europe-by-country/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccination-rate-in-europe-by-country/)

Quote from: johnnycool on July 23, 2021, 02:36:41 PM
... and will overtake them in getting teenagers vaccinated and back into schools.
That's possible if other countries start/keep vaccinating children and the UK doesn't.

My guess is that if the UK can reach herd immunity by their existing vaccination programme, plus unvaccinated people catching it following the latest opening up (esp the young), then they are hoping to avoid vaccinating children.

But if a 4th wave surges nonetheless, BoJo may have a decision to make in the autumn/winter.

The uk would vaccinate children if they hadn't messed up their vaccine orders. The pfizer vaccine is the one thought to be most suitable for the younger age group. Johnson messed up ordering that vaccine and won't be getting more supplies until very late in the year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Evil Genius on July 24, 2021, 06:05:19 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
I'm saying that doctors aren't going to go against what the government/WHO says, as it could mean the end of their medical career. There were doctors who have been struck off for linking MMR jabs to autism.
They were struck off because there are NO links between MMR and Autism you idiot! Meaning that discouraginjg parents from getting their kids MMR vaccinated put the kids at unnecessary risk.

Next you'll be telling us that Harold Shipman was struck off unfairly too, for pursing a non-standard treatment regime with his patients.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 24, 2021, 06:54:20 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 12:47:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 24, 2021, 12:14:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 24, 2021, 11:06:53 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 07:49:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 23, 2021, 05:37:45 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 05:29:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 23, 2021, 12:33:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 23, 2021, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.

What's your alternative to the vaccine?

Ivermectin.

So you don't want the vaccine, which comes with overwhelming medical and scientific support behind it. Instead you want Ivermectin, a drug which even the manufacturer says has not been proven to have any real effect on Covid?

https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/ (https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/)

Do you only "trust" science and "expertise" when it comes from the anti-government, anti-intellectual sphere?

There's been plenty of success with ivermectin in Asian/African countries. You just don't hear about it on BBC or Sky.

Evidence?

Did you read the article?

You still didn't answer why dubious treatments which do not yet have scientific or medical support are A-ok, but anything in terms of official government and professional guidelines and vaccines are all a plot or conspiracy.

There's plenty of material if you care to look. But let's face it, any medical person who recommends any other treatment  other than the approved vaccines will be struck off.

Look at what doctors have been ordered to do during the pandemic: listing deaths as covid if tested positive within 28 days. Doctors aren't stupid. They know that distorts the figures, but they do it because otherwise it's goodbye to their medical career. Or maybe that's just another conspiracy

Material such as...?

Where are doctors being struck off for treating patients? Vaccines come before infection. You don't treat someone with a vaccine.

But assuming you mean doctors who encourage "other treatments" in the event of an eventual infection rather than advising their patients to get vaccinated, you're still not answering the question: why are such doctors people whose advice is to be followed, while those who do follow the "approved" guidelines are not to be trusted? Is there something more robust and scientifically/medically more accurate about the "other" approaches?

I have no idea what you're on about with the 28 days thing. Feel free to expand, including explaining exactly what and why it's done and why it's wrong.

I'm saying that doctors aren't going to go against what the government/WHO says, as it could mean the end of their medical career. There were doctors who have been struck off for linking MMR jabs to autism.

Im talking about death certs labelled as covid deaths if they had a positive case in the previous 28 days. These are included as covid deaths even if someone eventually died of drowning, car accident, suicide, stroke etc. Doctors know this distorts actual covid deaths, but they go along with it, as the alternate is losing their jobs.

The MMR stuff is pure quackery and Ridgefield (or whatever his name is) engaged in scientific misconduct and caused huge damage.

Still nothing concrete on the death certificate stuff and still no answer about why "other" doctor = good and mainstream medicine = bad.

I explained it. Not my fault if you still don't get it

I don't know what you think I said, but put it like this: do I think there's possible other treatments/cures out there (and not just covid)? Yes. And do I think pharmaceuticals/governments would suppress such alternative medicines in order to sell their own medicines and makes huge profits? 100% absolutely.

But your "skepticism" doesn't extend to unsupported drug treatments and the financial motives of those who seeks to exploit reactionary, anti-government, anti-intellectual segments of the population. Only mainstream, "official " channels and expertise are ever suspect. Those who oppose them and offer "alternate" solutions are, by definition, to be advocated by "those in the know", not on their own merits, but for no reason other than they're not mainstream or official.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 24, 2021, 06:55:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 24, 2021, 02:42:08 PM
We're fighting two pandemics. Coronavirus and Stupidity.

Yep.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on July 24, 2021, 07:10:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 24, 2021, 06:55:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 24, 2021, 02:42:08 PM
We're fighting two pandemics. Coronavirus and Stupidity.

Yep.

The Gas thing is, that Stupid are not the one's that most people think the stupid are.

This episode of Human existence will be greatly frowned on in the future.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 24, 2021, 07:35:35 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 24, 2021, 07:10:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 24, 2021, 06:55:38 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 24, 2021, 02:42:08 PM
We're fighting two pandemics. Coronavirus and Stupidity.

Yep.

The Gas thing is, that Stupid are not the one's that most people think the stupid are.

This episode of Human existence will be greatly frowned on in the future.

They really are tho.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 24, 2021, 08:16:36 PM
Quote from: Rudi on July 24, 2021, 03:48:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 24, 2021, 02:42:08 PM
We're fighting two pandemics. Coronavirus and Stupidity.

Pharmaceutical companies are actually developing a vaccine at the moment for stupidity, I suggest you take it trailer, the likes of you will create many variants of stupidity.  ;D

Trust me. You need it more than me
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: StPatsAbu on July 24, 2021, 08:36:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 11:44:25 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 24, 2021, 11:36:58 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 07:52:39 AM
A fella around my way has told his staff that they are not allowed to have the jabs, if they do he'll sack them, won't let anyone in the house either who's been jabbed, his son is a second year medical student and if forced to have the jab will drop out of medicine!

He states that if you come into contact with someone who's got the vaccine they'll infect you with some condition! He also said that this vaccine is a world conspiracy to wipe out 5 billion people by the next winter!!

Now this guy is a complete p***k and I don't know one person who likes him! Had the confederate flag in his garden and vote trump banners up!

Oh, and he's getting that drug in that's not been approved and taking it!

Is this Belfast? That employer needs reported.

Owns an engineering firm Belfast area , he's always been a p***k

Which firm? If he's saying it to his staff there is no sanction for making people aware
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on July 24, 2021, 09:17:13 PM
You conspiracy theorists need to go and get a proper hobby for yourselves instead of sitting on your holes all day sharing shite to Facebook. Protesting against wearing a piece of cloth on your face. Would ya ever stop. Most of yas should have been wearing a mask before the pandemic. Face like a stepped-on rissole. Mary doesn't know how to restart her router or login to the Facebook account that she got locked out of last year but she still thinks she has the right to lecture everyone about the dangers of 5G technology. You have lads who failed pass maths quoting R0 numbers and mortality rates. Telling us all to "wake up" and calling everyone "sheep". Grab a hold of yourself now Aidan. It used to take you 10 minutes to read a paragraph out loud in class. I am in my f**king hole listening to you over the experts. If I gave you a multiplication sum to do you'd end up in Wexford A&E with a panic attack.

Wexford corp 2020
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 09:45:48 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 24, 2021, 06:05:19 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
I'm saying that doctors aren't going to go against what the government/WHO says, as it could mean the end of their medical career. There were doctors who have been struck off for linking MMR jabs to autism.
They were struck off because there are NO links between MMR and Autism you idiot! Meaning that discouraginjg parents from getting their kids MMR vaccinated put the kids at unnecessary risk.

Next you'll be telling us that Harold Shipman was struck off unfairly too, for pursing a non-standard treatment regime with his patients.

Did I say there were?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 09:56:47 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 09:45:48 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 24, 2021, 06:05:19 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
I'm saying that doctors aren't going to go against what the government/WHO says, as it could mean the end of their medical career. There were doctors who have been struck off for linking MMR jabs to autism.
They were struck off because there are NO links between MMR and Autism you idiot! Meaning that discouraginjg parents from getting their kids MMR vaccinated put the kids at unnecessary risk.

Next you'll be telling us that Harold Shipman was struck off unfairly too, for pursing a non-standard treatment regime with his patients.

Did I say there were?

No, tell us
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: StPatsAbu on July 24, 2021, 11:11:53 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 24, 2021, 11:06:53 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 07:49:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 23, 2021, 05:37:45 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 05:29:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 23, 2021, 12:33:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 23, 2021, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 23, 2021, 10:08:12 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 23, 2021, 09:56:56 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 23, 2021, 09:22:18 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57940347)

Hopefully reading this is a wake up call for all those who refuse the vaccine.

So is this also saying 40% of those admitted to hospital with Covid have had the vaccine?

Yeah, good point. But they conveniently didn't mention that bit.

What's your alternative to the vaccine?

Ivermectin.

So you don't want the vaccine, which comes with overwhelming medical and scientific support behind it. Instead you want Ivermectin, a drug which even the manufacturer says has not been proven to have any real effect on Covid?

https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/ (https://thebulwark.com/ivermectin-shows-us-the-consequences-of-politicized-science/)

Do you only "trust" science and "expertise" when it comes from the anti-government, anti-intellectual sphere?

There's been plenty of success with ivermectin in Asian/African countries. You just don't hear about it on BBC or Sky.

Evidence?

Did you read the article?

You still didn't answer why dubious treatments which do not yet have scientific or medical support are A-ok, but anything in terms of official government and professional guidelines and vaccines are all a plot or conspiracy.

There's plenty of material if you care to look. But let's face it, any medical person who recommends any other treatment  other than the approved vaccines will be struck off.

Look at what doctors have been ordered to do during the pandemic: listing deaths as covid if tested positive within 28 days. Doctors aren't stupid. They know that distorts the figures, but they do it because otherwise it's goodbye to their medical career. Or maybe that's just another conspiracy

Material such as...?

Where are doctors being struck off for treating patients? Vaccines come before infection. You don't treat someone with a vaccine.

But assuming you mean doctors who encourage "other treatments" in the event of an eventual infection rather than advising their patients to get vaccinated, you're still not answering the question: why are such doctors people whose advice is to be followed, while those who do follow the "approved" guidelines are not to be trusted? Is there something more robust and scientifically/medically more accurate about the "other" approaches?

I have no idea what you're on about with the 28 days thing. Feel free to expand, including explaining exactly what and why it's done and why it's wrong.

I'm saying that doctors aren't going to go against what the government/WHO says, as it could mean the end of their medical career. There were doctors who have been struck off for linking MMR jabs to autism.
And rightly so. Idiots.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Olly on July 24, 2021, 11:13:57 PM
If you got a jab up the hole, would it still be as effective?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on July 24, 2021, 11:29:26 PM
Quote from: Olly on July 24, 2021, 11:13:57 PM
If you got a jab up the hole, would it still be as effective?

Think it depends on the size of the  hole
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 25, 2021, 12:21:56 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 09:45:48 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 24, 2021, 06:05:19 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
I'm saying that doctors aren't going to go against what the government/WHO says, as it could mean the end of their medical career. There were doctors who have been struck off for linking MMR jabs to autism.
They were struck off because there are NO links between MMR and Autism you idiot! Meaning that discouraginjg parents from getting their kids MMR vaccinated put the kids at unnecessary risk.

Next you'll be telling us that Harold Shipman was struck off unfairly too, for pursing a non-standard treatment regime with his patients.

Did I say there were?

You don't even have the courage of your convictions. Throw a vague line out, then when it's picked up on, backtrack like f**k. You can't make a coherent argument to support your position.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 25, 2021, 12:40:11 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 25, 2021, 12:21:56 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 09:45:48 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 24, 2021, 06:05:19 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
I'm saying that doctors aren't going to go against what the government/WHO says, as it could mean the end of their medical career. There were doctors who have been struck off for linking MMR jabs to autism.
They were struck off because there are NO links between MMR and Autism you idiot! Meaning that discouraginjg parents from getting their kids MMR vaccinated put the kids at unnecessary risk.

Next you'll be telling us that Harold Shipman was struck off unfairly too, for pursing a non-standard treatment regime with his patients.

Did I say there were?

You don't even have the courage of your convictions. Throw a vague line out, then when it's picked up on, backtrack like f**k. You can't make a coherent argument to support your position.

I think yourself (and others) need to read what is actually in a post,  before resorting to insults and name calling.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 25, 2021, 12:50:32 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 25, 2021, 12:40:11 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 25, 2021, 12:21:56 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 09:45:48 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 24, 2021, 06:05:19 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
I'm saying that doctors aren't going to go against what the government/WHO says, as it could mean the end of their medical career. There were doctors who have been struck off for linking MMR jabs to autism.
They were struck off because there are NO links between MMR and Autism you idiot! Meaning that discouraginjg parents from getting their kids MMR vaccinated put the kids at unnecessary risk.

Next you'll be telling us that Harold Shipman was struck off unfairly too, for pursing a non-standard treatment regime with his patients.

Did I say there were?

You don't even have the courage of your convictions. Throw a vague line out, then when it's picked up on, backtrack like f**k. You can't make a coherent argument to support your position.

I think yourself (and others) need to read what is actually in a post,  before resorting to insults and name calling.

Nope, your post implied Doctors being struck of for linking MMR with autism shouldn't have been. Is that the case? If not then not sure why you'd bring it into the discussion. Happy for you to clarify.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 25, 2021, 01:00:41 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 24, 2021, 09:17:13 PM
You conspiracy theorists need to go and get a proper hobby for yourselves instead of sitting on your holes all day sharing shite to Facebook. Protesting against wearing a piece of cloth on your face. Would ya ever stop. Most of yas should have been wearing a mask before the pandemic. Face like a stepped-on rissole. Mary doesn't know how to restart her router or login to the Facebook account that she got locked out of last year but she still thinks she has the right to lecture everyone about the dangers of 5G technology. You have lads who failed pass maths quoting R0 numbers and mortality rates. Telling us all to "wake up" and calling everyone "sheep". Grab a hold of yourself now Aidan. It used to take you 10 minutes to read a paragraph out loud in class. I am in my f**king hole listening to you over the experts. If I gave you a multiplication sum to do you'd end up in Wexford A&E with a panic attack.

Wexford corp 2020
;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on July 25, 2021, 01:18:09 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 25, 2021, 01:00:41 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 24, 2021, 09:17:13 PM
You conspiracy theorists need to go and get a proper hobby for yourselves instead of sitting on your holes all day sharing shite to Facebook. Protesting against wearing a piece of cloth on your face. Would ya ever stop. Most of yas should have been wearing a mask before the pandemic. Face like a stepped-on rissole. Mary doesn't know how to restart her router or login to the Facebook account that she got locked out of last year but she still thinks she has the right to lecture everyone about the dangers of 5G technology. You have lads who failed pass maths quoting R0 numbers and mortality rates. Telling us all to "wake up" and calling everyone "sheep". Grab a hold of yourself now Aidan. It used to take you 10 minutes to read a paragraph out loud in class. I am in my f**king hole listening to you over the experts. If I gave you a multiplication sum to do you'd end up in Wexford A&E with a panic attack.

Wexford corp 2020
;D
;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 25, 2021, 06:10:43 PM
ROI weekly update.

8605 cases ( 1910 more than last Sunday, the week before we had a rise of over 3,000 cases)

22 in ICU (no change)
123 in hospital (32 more than last week a simliar rise as the week before (33)


Over 5.5M vaccines administered with 83% of adults now partially vaccinated and over 68% fully vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 25, 2021, 06:17:59 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 25, 2021, 06:10:43 PM

ROI weekly update.

8605 cases ( 1910 more than last Sunday, the week before we had a rise of over 3,000 cases)

22 in ICU (no change)
123 in hospital (32 more than last week a simliar rise as the week before (33)

This week the proportion of people with at least one vaccine in the 26 counties exceeded the 6 counties. For this reason and the vaccine requirements in pubs etc should mean that these case numbers do not take off too quickly.

Earlier in the year there was all sorts of bollix about the UK sending Ireland vaccines and other big talk. Not much actually arrived, of course.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 25, 2021, 06:43:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 25, 2021, 06:17:59 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 25, 2021, 06:10:43 PM

ROI weekly update.

8605 cases ( 1910 more than last Sunday, the week before we had a rise of over 3,000 cases)

22 in ICU (no change)
123 in hospital (32 more than last week a simliar rise as the week before (33)

This week the proportion of people with at least one vaccine in the 26 counties exceeded the 6 counties. For this reason and the vaccine requirements in pubs etc should mean that these case numbers do not take off too quickly.

Earlier in the year there was all sorts of bollix about the UK sending Ireland vaccines and other big talk. Not much actually arrived, of course.

😂
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 25, 2021, 10:21:32 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 24, 2021, 02:19:10 PM
A bar in Carrick on Shannon and a simliar is message is sent out by a number of bars now.

(https://i.ibb.co/QXnw1Jr/Screenshot-20210724-141548-2.png) (https://ibb.co/x3GTR2J)
they'll soon wise up when the good weather goes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 25, 2021, 10:50:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 24, 2021, 04:30:59 PM
the ultra careful will want the virus dead before surfacing.

Given we already know yer dog and cat can get it - the chances of full eradication are exactly zero.

Best that can be done now is nimble responses to variant outbreaks, probably by prompt travel restrictions combined with quick modification of vaccines to cope.

The world is unfortunately going to be much less travelled for a while. [although given aircraft emissions, maybe no bad thing]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: jftj on July 26, 2021, 12:13:59 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 25, 2021, 10:21:32 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 24, 2021, 02:19:10 PM
A bar in Carrick on Shannon and a simliar is message is sent out by a number of bars now.

(https://i.ibb.co/QXnw1Jr/Screenshot-20210724-141548-2.png) (https://ibb.co/x3GTR2J)
they'll soon wise up when the good weather goes
what a p***k.so you are actually endorsing medical apartheid.separating friends and families because of a medical procedure.disgusting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 26, 2021, 12:20:57 AM
Jim has plenty of cover in his garden ;)
jftj is spouting some sh1te!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 26, 2021, 08:53:54 AM
Quote from: jftj on July 26, 2021, 12:13:59 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 25, 2021, 10:21:32 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 24, 2021, 02:19:10 PM
A bar in Carrick on Shannon and a simliar is message is sent out by a number of bars now.

(https://i.ibb.co/QXnw1Jr/Screenshot-20210724-141548-2.png) (https://ibb.co/x3GTR2J)
they'll soon wise up when the good weather goes
what a p***k.so you are actually endorsing medical apartheid.separating friends and families because of a medical procedure.disgusting.
I hope you're not talking to me. If you read any of my posts you'll not be long seeing what I think of lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: An Watcher on July 26, 2021, 12:40:22 PM
All this talk about covid certificates and what not.  Heading down south on Saturday. Will I need a certificate to get into restaurants?  Double jabbed and all but want to make sure we have all the bits n bons
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 26, 2021, 12:43:47 PM
a lot of places that have sufficient space outside and have a working setup in operation will be in no hurry to open up inside, they can afford to wait and see.


Quote from: An Watcher on July 26, 2021, 12:40:22 PM
All this talk about covid certificates and what not.  Heading down south on Saturday. Will I need a certificate to get into restaurants?  Double jabbed and all but want to make sure we have all the bits n bons

You need proof of vaccination and photo id with the same name on it for everyone over 18 in the party.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on July 26, 2021, 01:38:06 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0726/1237258-northern-ireland-covid/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: WT4E on July 26, 2021, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 26, 2021, 12:43:47 PM
a lot of places that have sufficient space outside and have a working setup in operation will be in no hurry to open up inside, they can afford to wait and see.


Quote from: An Watcher on July 26, 2021, 12:40:22 PM
All this talk about covid certificates and what not.  Heading down south on Saturday. Will I need a certificate to get into restaurants?  Double jabbed and all but want to make sure we have all the bits n bons

You need proof of vaccination and photo id with the same name on it for everyone over 18 in the party.

Is the card with the record of the two vaccines enough proof. Heard someone say its not being accepted but what else is there?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on July 26, 2021, 02:00:23 PM
Quote from: WT4E on July 26, 2021, 01:57:45 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 26, 2021, 12:43:47 PM
a lot of places that have sufficient space outside and have a working setup in operation will be in no hurry to open up inside, they can afford to wait and see.


Quote from: An Watcher on July 26, 2021, 12:40:22 PM
All this talk about covid certificates and what not.  Heading down south on Saturday. Will I need a certificate to get into restaurants?  Double jabbed and all but want to make sure we have all the bits n bons

You need proof of vaccination and photo id with the same name on it for everyone over 18 in the party.

Is the card with the record of the two vaccines enough proof. Heard someone say its not being accepted but what else is there?

If you're in Ireland they'll take the card, but if you're going abroad it won't be accepted
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: An Watcher on July 26, 2021, 02:39:21 PM
The president of the Restaurant Association of Ireland, Mark McGowan, said it was his understanding that the Northern Ireland vaccination card will be accepted as proof of immunity at venues in the Republic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: An Watcher on July 26, 2021, 02:40:06 PM
Just read that off BBC so hopefully that's acceptable as we have the card
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 26, 2021, 03:25:39 PM
Be interesting to see the uptake on the 'vaccination' passport for the bars and cafes in the south
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on July 26, 2021, 04:36:30 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on July 26, 2021, 02:40:06 PM
Just read that off BBC so hopefully that's acceptable as we have the card
Card + ID, to show it's your name on the vaccination card.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on July 26, 2021, 05:52:41 PM
CDC in USA are now saying pcr tests are not able to distinguish between flu and covid .
Rahm the golfer is a weird case he has had covid has antibodies and is fully vaccinated but still tested positive for covid but is not sick and never was sick.
Strange people are not a little more curious about this
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 26, 2021, 06:46:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 26, 2021, 05:52:41 PM
CDC in USA are now saying pcr tests are not able to distinguish between flu and covid .
Rahm the golfer is a weird case he has had covid has antibodies and is fully vaccinated but still tested positive for covid but is not sick and never was sick.
Strange people are not a little more curious about this

You'll not get flu in the summer generally, you can still get it and not be sick but pass it on, I've you more cleverer than that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 26, 2021, 06:50:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 26, 2021, 05:52:41 PM
CDC in USA are now saying pcr tests are not able to distinguish between flu and covid .

I think we need more information about this.

Quote from: Gmac
Rahm the golfer is a weird case he has had covid has antibodies and is fully vaccinated but still tested positive for covid but is not sick and never was sick.
Strange people are not a little more curious about this

It has been known for the last year and a half that people can have Covid and spread Covid and not feel any symptoms.

Quote from: Gmac
Strange people are not a little more curious about this

they are curious, I am sure there hundreds of scientists looking into it. If they can identify what is different about the people who do not get ill than perhaps some treatment may emerge from this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on July 26, 2021, 06:55:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 26, 2021, 06:46:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 26, 2021, 05:52:41 PM
CDC in USA are now saying pcr tests are not able to distinguish between flu and covid .
Rahm the golfer is a weird case he has had covid has antibodies and is fully vaccinated but still tested positive for covid but is not sick and never was sick.
Strange people are not a little more curious about this

You'll not get flu in the summer generally, you can still get it and not be sick but pass it on, I've you more cleverer than that
so is he testing positive for the flu or covid ?
Most policies have been based on test results over the last year if the tests are compromised then the policies  have  to be too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 26, 2021, 07:03:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 26, 2021, 05:52:41 PM
CDC in USA are now saying pcr tests are not able to distinguish between flu and covid .
Rahm the golfer is a weird case he has had covid has antibodies and is fully vaccinated but still tested positive for covid but is not sick and never was sick.
Strange people are not a little more curious about this

I think you need to re-evaluate your news sources and stop relying on "journalists" who don't know their ass from elbow when it comes to this stuff.

The CDC is advising labs to switch to tests that can detect BOTH Covid and flu.

They're not advising them, late in the day, that the test couldn't distinguish them.

My guess is that such tests now exist, whereas this time last year they didn't.

After December 31, 2021, CDC will withdraw the request to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) of the CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel, the assay first introduced in February 2020 for detection of SARS-CoV-2 only. CDC is providing this advance notice for clinical laboratories to have adequate time to select and implement one of the many FDA-authorized alternatives.

In preparation for this change, CDC recommends clinical laboratories and testing sites that have been using the CDC 2019-nCoV RT-PCR assay select and begin their transition to another FDA-authorized COVID-19 test. CDC encourages laboratories to consider adoption of a multiplexed method that can facilitate detection and differentiation of SARS-CoV-2 and influenza viruses. Such assays can facilitate continued testing for both influenza and SARS-CoV-2 and can save both time and resources as we head into influenza season. Laboratories and testing sites should validate and verify their selected assay within their facility before beginning clinical testing.

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html (https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html)

f**king right wingers think scientists and doctors are a bunch of vacuous morons who came down with the last shower and are no better than some blowhard on youtube or Fox News.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 26, 2021, 07:08:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 26, 2021, 06:55:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 26, 2021, 06:46:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 26, 2021, 05:52:41 PM
CDC in USA are now saying pcr tests are not able to distinguish between flu and covid .
Rahm the golfer is a weird case he has had covid has antibodies and is fully vaccinated but still tested positive for covid but is not sick and never was sick.
Strange people are not a little more curious about this

You'll not get flu in the summer generally, you can still get it and not be sick but pass it on, I've you more cleverer than that
so is he testing positive for the flu or covid ?
Most policies have been based on test results over the last year if the tests are compromised then the policies  have  to be too.

So let's get your thoughts first.

Is covid real or just flu?

Is flu seasonal or all year round?

With limited travel globally why has 'flu' become such a big spreader?

If it's flu then why not just use the same flu jab that has been used for years

Why are governments shooting themselves in the foot with restrictions and what do they get out of it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on July 26, 2021, 07:14:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2021, 07:03:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 26, 2021, 05:52:41 PM
CDC in USA are now saying pcr tests are not able to distinguish between flu and covid .
Rahm the golfer is a weird case he has had covid has antibodies and is fully vaccinated but still tested positive for covid but is not sick and never was sick.
Strange people are not a little more curious about this

I think you need to re-evaluate your news sources and stop relying on "journalists" who don't know their ass from elbow when it comes to this stuff.

The CDC is advising labs to switch to tests that can detect BOTH Covid and flu.

They're not advising them, late in the day, that the test couldn't distinguish them.

My guess is that such tests now exist, whereas this time last year they didn't.

After December 31, 2021, CDC will withdraw the request to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) of the CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel, the assay first introduced in February 2020 for detection of SARS-CoV-2 only. CDC is providing this advance notice for clinical laboratories to have adequate time to select and implement one of the many FDA-authorized alternatives.

In preparation for this change, CDC recommends clinical laboratories and testing sites that have been using the CDC 2019-nCoV RT-PCR assay select and begin their transition to another FDA-authorized COVID-19 test. CDC encourages laboratories to consider adoption of a multiplexed method that can facilitate detection and differentiation of SARS-CoV-2 and influenza viruses. Such assays can facilitate continued testing for both influenza and SARS-CoV-2 and can save both time and resources as we head into influenza season. Laboratories and testing sites should validate and verify their selected assay within their facility before beginning clinical testing.

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html (https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html)

f**king right wingers think scientists and doctors are a bunch of vacuous morons who came down with the last shower and are no better than some blowhard on youtube or Fox News.
j70 the tests don't work properly what's the problem with that ? You guess ? Who are you to guess but tell me my opinion is thrash ? Give the Fox News a rest it's getting old and played .
Stay inside with your mask on and remove yourself from society please your an extremist.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on July 26, 2021, 07:20:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 26, 2021, 07:08:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 26, 2021, 06:55:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 26, 2021, 06:46:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 26, 2021, 05:52:41 PM
CDC in USA are now saying pcr tests are not able to distinguish between flu and covid .
Rahm the golfer is a weird case he has had covid has antibodies and is fully vaccinated but still tested positive for covid but is not sick and never was sick.
Strange people are not a little more curious about this

You'll not get flu in the summer generally, you can still get it and not be sick but pass it on, I've you more cleverer than that
so is he testing positive for the flu or covid ?
Most policies have been based on test results over the last year if the tests are compromised then the policies  have  to be too.

So let's get your thoughts first.

Is covid real or just flu?

Is flu seasonal or all year round?

With limited travel globally why has 'flu' become such a big spreader?

If it's flu then why not just use the same flu jab that has been used for years

Why are governments shooting themselves in the foot with restrictions and what do they get out of it?
I don't know what he's testing positive for
I think you could get flu at any time no ?
I didn't know it had
Governments are already  ramping up for a big flu season.
Let's see hospital numbers in uk in next few weeks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 26, 2021, 07:20:36 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 26, 2021, 07:14:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 26, 2021, 07:03:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 26, 2021, 05:52:41 PM
CDC in USA are now saying pcr tests are not able to distinguish between flu and covid .
Rahm the golfer is a weird case he has had covid has antibodies and is fully vaccinated but still tested positive for covid but is not sick and never was sick.
Strange people are not a little more curious about this

I think you need to re-evaluate your news sources and stop relying on "journalists" who don't know their ass from elbow when it comes to this stuff.

The CDC is advising labs to switch to tests that can detect BOTH Covid and flu.

They're not advising them, late in the day, that the test couldn't distinguish them.

My guess is that such tests now exist, whereas this time last year they didn't.

After December 31, 2021, CDC will withdraw the request to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) of the CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel, the assay first introduced in February 2020 for detection of SARS-CoV-2 only. CDC is providing this advance notice for clinical laboratories to have adequate time to select and implement one of the many FDA-authorized alternatives.

In preparation for this change, CDC recommends clinical laboratories and testing sites that have been using the CDC 2019-nCoV RT-PCR assay select and begin their transition to another FDA-authorized COVID-19 test. CDC encourages laboratories to consider adoption of a multiplexed method that can facilitate detection and differentiation of SARS-CoV-2 and influenza viruses. Such assays can facilitate continued testing for both influenza and SARS-CoV-2 and can save both time and resources as we head into influenza season. Laboratories and testing sites should validate and verify their selected assay within their facility before beginning clinical testing.

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html (https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html)

f**king right wingers think scientists and doctors are a bunch of vacuous morons who came down with the last shower and are no better than some blowhard on youtube or Fox News.
j70 the tests don't work properly what's the problem with that ? You guess ? Who are you to guess but tell me my opinion is thrash ? Give the Fox News a rest it's getting old and played .
Stay inside with your mask on and remove yourself from society please your an extremist.

Where does it say the tests don't work properly?

They said they're removing the EUA for this particular test BECAUSE there are now other alternatives out there, including ones that can test for both Covid AND flu.

The only guess I made was to speculate that the tests that could detect both Covid AND flu weren't available last year, hence they weren't recommended. It was clearly stated as speculation (unlike YOUR definitive false claim), and anyway beside the point.

If you're tired of the Fox News stuff, why don't you reveal to us where you read or heard about the misrepresented version of the CDC's advisory to labs?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dec on July 26, 2021, 07:22:15 PM
Here is the link to the CDC notice

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html

After December 31, 2021, CDC will withdraw the request to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) of the CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel, the assay first introduced in February 2020 for detection of SARS-CoV-2 only. CDC is providing this advance notice for clinical laboratories to have adequate time to select and implement one of the many FDA-authorized alternatives.

Visit the FDA website for a list of authorized COVID-19 diagnostic methods. For a summary of the performance of FDA-authorized molecular methods with an FDA reference panel, visit this page.

In preparation for this change, CDC recommends clinical laboratories and testing sites that have been using the CDC 2019-nCoV RT-PCR assay select and begin their transition to another FDA-authorized COVID-19 test. CDC encourages laboratories to consider adoption of a multiplexed method that can facilitate detection and differentiation of SARS-CoV-2 and influenza viruses. Such assays can facilitate continued testing for both influenza and SARS-CoV-2 and can save both time and resources as we head into influenza season. Laboratories and testing sites should validate and verify their selected assay within their facility before beginning clinical testing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 26, 2021, 07:35:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 26, 2021, 07:20:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 26, 2021, 07:08:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 26, 2021, 06:55:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 26, 2021, 06:46:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 26, 2021, 05:52:41 PM
CDC in USA are now saying pcr tests are not able to distinguish between flu and covid .
Rahm the golfer is a weird case he has had covid has antibodies and is fully vaccinated but still tested positive for covid but is not sick and never was sick.
Strange people are not a little more curious about this

You'll not get flu in the summer generally, you can still get it and not be sick but pass it on, I've you more cleverer than that
so is he testing positive for the flu or covid ?
Most policies have been based on test results over the last year if the tests are compromised then the policies  have  to be too.

So let's get your thoughts first.

Is covid real or just flu?

Is flu seasonal or all year round?

With limited travel globally why has 'flu' become such a big spreader?

If it's flu then why not just use the same flu jab that has been used for years

Why are governments shooting themselves in the foot with restrictions and what do they get out of it?
I don't know what he's testing positive for
I think you could get flu at any time no ?
I didn't know it had
Governments are already  ramping up for a big flu season.
Let's see hospital numbers in uk in next few weeks

I'm guessing if we continue to sanitise we won't have the big flu numbers, there are less flights also and less people traveling, that's how flu comes in from different countries.

Numbers dropping in the uk, and for a country opened up that's interesting, high percentage double jabbed and not getting sick

So you think flu is an all year thing and not seasonal? Interesting
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 01:40:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 25, 2021, 12:50:32 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 25, 2021, 12:40:11 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 25, 2021, 12:21:56 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 09:45:48 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 24, 2021, 06:05:19 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
I'm saying that doctors aren't going to go against what the government/WHO says, as it could mean the end of their medical career. There were doctors who have been struck off for linking MMR jabs to autism.
They were struck off because there are NO links between MMR and Autism you idiot! Meaning that discouraginjg parents from getting their kids MMR vaccinated put the kids at unnecessary risk.

Next you'll be telling us that Harold Shipman was struck off unfairly too, for pursing a non-standard treatment regime with his patients.

Did I say there were?

You don't even have the courage of your convictions. Throw a vague line out, then when it's picked up on, backtrack like f**k. You can't make a coherent argument to support your position.

I think yourself (and others) need to read what is actually in a post,  before resorting to insults and name calling.

Nope, your post implied Doctors being struck of for linking MMR with autism shouldn't have been. Is that the case? If not then not sure why you'd bring it into the discussion. Happy for you to clarify.

No, I didn't imply that. You implied I said that. I brought it up as an example, whereby if medical people might have their own thoughts/concerns on certain vaccines/medication (or even alternative therapy not approved by the NHS), then they dare not say it publicly or to their patients. Going against the grain could mean being struck off.

I mean, we all know about charms. Would your doctor  advice you chuck your ointment in the bin and go see the local man with an apparent charm for psoriasis or whatever? I'd seriously doubt it. Many of us have used them though even if they're not exactly approved by medical experts. Now, I'd doubt a doctor would be sacked for advocating charms, but still, it's not exactly promoted by experts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on July 27, 2021, 01:48:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 01:40:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 25, 2021, 12:50:32 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 25, 2021, 12:40:11 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 25, 2021, 12:21:56 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 09:45:48 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 24, 2021, 06:05:19 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
I'm saying that doctors aren't going to go against what the government/WHO says, as it could mean the end of their medical career. There were doctors who have been struck off for linking MMR jabs to autism.
They were struck off because there are NO links between MMR and Autism you idiot! Meaning that discouraginjg parents from getting their kids MMR vaccinated put the kids at unnecessary risk.

Next you'll be telling us that Harold Shipman was struck off unfairly too, for pursing a non-standard treatment regime with his patients.

Did I say there were?

You don't even have the courage of your convictions. Throw a vague line out, then when it's picked up on, backtrack like f**k. You can't make a coherent argument to support your position.

I think yourself (and others) need to read what is actually in a post,  before resorting to insults and name calling.

Nope, your post implied Doctors being struck of for linking MMR with autism shouldn't have been. Is that the case? If not then not sure why you'd bring it into the discussion. Happy for you to clarify.

No, I didn't imply that. You implied I said that. I brought it up as an example, whereby if medical people might have their own thoughts/concerns on certain vaccines/medication (or even alternative therapy not approved by the NHS), then they dare not say it publicly or to their patients. Going against the grain could mean being struck off.

I mean, we all know about charms. Would your doctor  advice you chuck your ointment in the bin and go see the local man with an apparent charm for psoriasis or whatever? I'd seriously doubt it. Many of us have used them though even if they're not exactly approved by medical experts. Now, I'd doubt a doctor would be sacked for advocating charms, but still, it's not exactly promoted by experts.

Who has the charm for covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 27, 2021, 01:59:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 01:40:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 25, 2021, 12:50:32 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 25, 2021, 12:40:11 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 25, 2021, 12:21:56 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 09:45:48 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 24, 2021, 06:05:19 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
I'm saying that doctors aren't going to go against what the government/WHO says, as it could mean the end of their medical career. There were doctors who have been struck off for linking MMR jabs to autism.
They were struck off because there are NO links between MMR and Autism you idiot! Meaning that discouraginjg parents from getting their kids MMR vaccinated put the kids at unnecessary risk.

Next you'll be telling us that Harold Shipman was struck off unfairly too, for pursing a non-standard treatment regime with his patients.

Did I say there were?

You don't even have the courage of your convictions. Throw a vague line out, then when it's picked up on, backtrack like f**k. You can't make a coherent argument to support your position.

I think yourself (and others) need to read what is actually in a post,  before resorting to insults and name calling.

Nope, your post implied Doctors being struck of for linking MMR with autism shouldn't have been. Is that the case? If not then not sure why you'd bring it into the discussion. Happy for you to clarify.

No, I didn't imply that. You implied I said that. I brought it up as an example, whereby if medical people might have their own thoughts/concerns on certain vaccines/medication (or even alternative therapy not approved by the NHS), then they dare not say it publicly or to their patients. Going against the grain could mean being struck off.

I mean, we all know about charms. Would your doctor  advice you chuck your ointment in the bin and go see the local man with an apparent charm for psoriasis or whatever? I'd seriously doubt it. Many of us have used them though even if they're not exactly approved by medical experts. Now, I'd doubt a doctor would be sacked for advocating charms, but still, it's not exactly promoted by experts.

How many doctors have been struck off? And in any of the examples where they have, why was it unwarranted?

Andrew Wakefield was struck off 12 years after his fraudulent and highly damaging MMR study.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 27, 2021, 02:08:47 PM
Mods need to step in here. There is science and fact and then there is this nonsense of fake news. It isn't balance. It isn't free speech. There is no other side to hear.

Vaccines save lives. End of story.

Mods need to step in an stop this nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 27, 2021, 02:10:44 PM
Is your issue control Benny? You aren't very clear on your communication tbh. People are trying to second guess you because you aren't clear.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 27, 2021, 02:32:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 01:40:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 25, 2021, 12:50:32 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 25, 2021, 12:40:11 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 25, 2021, 12:21:56 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 09:45:48 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 24, 2021, 06:05:19 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
I'm saying that doctors aren't going to go against what the government/WHO says, as it could mean the end of their medical career. There were doctors who have been struck off for linking MMR jabs to autism.
They were struck off because there are NO links between MMR and Autism you idiot! Meaning that discouraginjg parents from getting their kids MMR vaccinated put the kids at unnecessary risk.

Next you'll be telling us that Harold Shipman was struck off unfairly too, for pursing a non-standard treatment regime with his patients.

Did I say there were?

You don't even have the courage of your convictions. Throw a vague line out, then when it's picked up on, backtrack like f**k. You can't make a coherent argument to support your position.

I think yourself (and others) need to read what is actually in a post,  before resorting to insults and name calling.

Nope, your post implied Doctors being struck of for linking MMR with autism shouldn't have been. Is that the case? If not then not sure why you'd bring it into the discussion. Happy for you to clarify.

No, I didn't imply that. You implied I said that. I brought it up as an example, whereby if medical people might have their own thoughts/concerns on certain vaccines/medication (or even alternative therapy not approved by the NHS), then they dare not say it publicly or to their patients. Going against the grain could mean being struck off.

I mean, we all know about charms. Would your doctor  advice you chuck your ointment in the bin and go see the local man with an apparent charm for psoriasis or whatever? I'd seriously doubt it. Many of us have used them though even if they're not exactly approved by medical experts. Now, I'd doubt a doctor would be sacked for advocating charms, but still, it's not exactly promoted by experts.
If you went to a doctor and there was a scientifically proven treatment for your condition, and they ignored that and instead prescribed you go and rub the bark of a 800 year old oak tree then yes they should be struck off. Same with a doctor not supporting the vaccine program. I'm still really lost on what your point is? Are you trying to argue that there's doctors out there who might not support the vaccine and the proof of this, is that there is no proof as they don't want to be struck off?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on July 27, 2021, 03:31:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 27, 2021, 02:08:47 PM
Mods need to step in here. There is science and fact and then there is this nonsense of fake news. It isn't balance. It isn't free speech. There is no other side to hear.

Vaccines save lives. End of story.

Mods need to step in an stop this nonsense.

If people are swayed by stuff put up on a GAA board by a load of eejits (I include myself in this) then this other pandemic of stupidity really is as big an issue.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 04:09:56 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 27, 2021, 02:32:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 01:40:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 25, 2021, 12:50:32 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 25, 2021, 12:40:11 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 25, 2021, 12:21:56 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 09:45:48 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 24, 2021, 06:05:19 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
I'm saying that doctors aren't going to go against what the government/WHO says, as it could mean the end of their medical career. There were doctors who have been struck off for linking MMR jabs to autism.
They were struck off because there are NO links between MMR and Autism you idiot! Meaning that discouraginjg parents from getting their kids MMR vaccinated put the kids at unnecessary risk.

Next you'll be telling us that Harold Shipman was struck off unfairly too, for pursing a non-standard treatment regime with his patients.

Did I say there were?

You don't even have the courage of your convictions. Throw a vague line out, then when it's picked up on, backtrack like f**k. You can't make a coherent argument to support your position.

I think yourself (and others) need to read what is actually in a post,  before resorting to insults and name calling.

Nope, your post implied Doctors being struck of for linking MMR with autism shouldn't have been. Is that the case? If not then not sure why you'd bring it into the discussion. Happy for you to clarify.

No, I didn't imply that. You implied I said that. I brought it up as an example, whereby if medical people might have their own thoughts/concerns on certain vaccines/medication (or even alternative therapy not approved by the NHS), then they dare not say it publicly or to their patients. Going against the grain could mean being struck off.

I mean, we all know about charms. Would your doctor  advice you chuck your ointment in the bin and go see the local man with an apparent charm for psoriasis or whatever? I'd seriously doubt it. Many of us have used them though even if they're not exactly approved by medical experts. Now, I'd doubt a doctor would be sacked for advocating charms, but still, it's not exactly promoted by experts.
If you went to a doctor and there was a scientifically proven treatment for your condition, and they ignored that and instead prescribed you go and rub the bark of a 800 year old oak tree then yes they should be struck off. Same with a doctor not supporting the vaccine program. I'm still really lost on what your point is? Are you trying to argue that there's doctors out there who might not support the vaccine and the proof of this, is that there is no proof as they don't want to be struck off?

I was merely answering your question. And who knows, maybe there are. Clots have been linked to the vaccine, so a patient at risk of clots may be at risk after taking the vaccine. Some doctors might have concerns for such patients in that situation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 04:13:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 27, 2021, 02:10:44 PM
Is your issue control Benny? You aren't very clear on your communication tbh. People are trying to second guess you because you aren't clear.

If you don't grasp my point, that's not my fault. But the last number of posts  I'm merely batting away absurd accusations thrown my way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 27, 2021, 04:29:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 04:09:56 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 27, 2021, 02:32:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 01:40:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 25, 2021, 12:50:32 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 25, 2021, 12:40:11 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 25, 2021, 12:21:56 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 09:45:48 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 24, 2021, 06:05:19 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
I'm saying that doctors aren't going to go against what the government/WHO says, as it could mean the end of their medical career. There were doctors who have been struck off for linking MMR jabs to autism.
They were struck off because there are NO links between MMR and Autism you idiot! Meaning that discouraginjg parents from getting their kids MMR vaccinated put the kids at unnecessary risk.

Next you'll be telling us that Harold Shipman was struck off unfairly too, for pursing a non-standard treatment regime with his patients.

Did I say there were?

You don't even have the courage of your convictions. Throw a vague line out, then when it's picked up on, backtrack like f**k. You can't make a coherent argument to support your position.

I think yourself (and others) need to read what is actually in a post,  before resorting to insults and name calling.

Nope, your post implied Doctors being struck of for linking MMR with autism shouldn't have been. Is that the case? If not then not sure why you'd bring it into the discussion. Happy for you to clarify.

No, I didn't imply that. You implied I said that. I brought it up as an example, whereby if medical people might have their own thoughts/concerns on certain vaccines/medication (or even alternative therapy not approved by the NHS), then they dare not say it publicly or to their patients. Going against the grain could mean being struck off.

I mean, we all know about charms. Would your doctor  advice you chuck your ointment in the bin and go see the local man with an apparent charm for psoriasis or whatever? I'd seriously doubt it. Many of us have used them though even if they're not exactly approved by medical experts. Now, I'd doubt a doctor would be sacked for advocating charms, but still, it's not exactly promoted by experts.
If you went to a doctor and there was a scientifically proven treatment for your condition, and they ignored that and instead prescribed you go and rub the bark of a 800 year old oak tree then yes they should be struck off. Same with a doctor not supporting the vaccine program. I'm still really lost on what your point is? Are you trying to argue that there's doctors out there who might not support the vaccine and the proof of this, is that there is no proof as they don't want to be struck off?

I was merely answering your question. And who knows, maybe there are. Clots have been linked to the vaccine, so a patient at risk of clots may be at risk after taking the vaccine. Some doctors might have concerns for such patients in that situation.
It was you that threw up the reference to doctors and MMR so I'm still a bit lost to the relevance of what point you are trying to make. Do you really think there isn't a process for patients who have a history of clots? I mean come on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 27, 2021, 04:31:12 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 27, 2021, 03:31:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 27, 2021, 02:08:47 PM
Mods need to step in here. There is science and fact and then there is this nonsense of fake news. It isn't balance. It isn't free speech. There is no other side to hear.

Vaccines save lives. End of story.

Mods need to step in an stop this nonsense.

If people are swayed by stuff put up on a GAA board by a load of eejits (I include myself in this) then this other pandemic of stupidity really is as big an issue.

You be surprised who would read the shite we post.
This anti vaccine shite is nonsense and should be censored.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on July 27, 2021, 04:47:55 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 27, 2021, 03:31:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 27, 2021, 02:08:47 PM
Mods need to step in here. There is science and fact and then there is this nonsense of fake news. It isn't balance. It isn't free speech. There is no other side to hear.

Vaccines save lives. End of story.

Mods need to step in an stop this nonsense.

If people are swayed by stuff put up on a GAA board by a load of eejits (I include myself in this) then this other pandemic of stupidity really is as big an issue.

+1, trailer gets his life philosophies from a car bumper sticker. Calling in the mods, Jesus wept. Must have got too much sun in Castlederg.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 27, 2021, 06:42:14 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 04:13:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 27, 2021, 02:10:44 PM
Is your issue control Benny? You aren't very clear on your communication tbh. People are trying to second guess you because you aren't clear.

If you don't grasp my point, that's not my fault. But the last number of posts  I'm merely batting away absurd accusations thrown my way.

If I was alone I would agree but I am not. You are putting your point across terribly e.g. the MMR stuff and doctors. Everyone is picking you up wrong so please clarify what is right. When everyone is the maybe that's not on everyone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 27, 2021, 07:22:18 PM
Quote from: Rudi on July 27, 2021, 04:47:55 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 27, 2021, 03:31:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 27, 2021, 02:08:47 PM
Mods need to step in here. There is science and fact and then there is this nonsense of fake news. It isn't balance. It isn't free speech. There is no other side to hear.

Vaccines save lives. End of story.

Mods need to step in an stop this nonsense.

If people are swayed by stuff put up on a GAA board by a load of eejits (I include myself in this) then this other pandemic of stupidity really is as big an issue.

+1, trailer gets his life philosophies from a car bumper sticker. Calling in the mods, Jesus wept. Must have got too much sun in Castlederg.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-57984561 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-57984561)

Reality. Something you don't seem to be able to grasp.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 27, 2021, 07:27:17 PM
Reality is overrated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 07:34:25 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 27, 2021, 06:42:14 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 04:13:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 27, 2021, 02:10:44 PM
Is your issue control Benny? You aren't very clear on your communication tbh. People are trying to second guess you because you aren't clear.

If you don't grasp my point, that's not my fault. But the last number of posts  I'm merely batting away absurd accusations thrown my way.

If I was alone I would agree but I am not. You are putting your point across terribly e.g. the MMR stuff and doctors. Everyone is picking you up wrong so please clarify what is right. When everyone is the maybe that's not on everyone.

Ive already explained, and gave two more examples as well. A few of you have a certain view of myself (and others), and rather than take what I've actually said, you create your own narrative and take it in a different direction.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Olly on July 27, 2021, 08:36:02 PM
When seagulls follow the trawler it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on July 27, 2021, 08:48:22 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 04:09:56 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 27, 2021, 02:32:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 01:40:29 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 25, 2021, 12:50:32 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 25, 2021, 12:40:11 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 25, 2021, 12:21:56 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 09:45:48 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 24, 2021, 06:05:19 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 24, 2021, 11:26:34 AM
I'm saying that doctors aren't going to go against what the government/WHO says, as it could mean the end of their medical career. There were doctors who have been struck off for linking MMR jabs to autism.
They were struck off because there are NO links between MMR and Autism you idiot! Meaning that discouraginjg parents from getting their kids MMR vaccinated put the kids at unnecessary risk.

Next you'll be telling us that Harold Shipman was struck off unfairly too, for pursing a non-standard treatment regime with his patients.

Did I say there were?

You don't even have the courage of your convictions. Throw a vague line out, then when it's picked up on, backtrack like f**k. You can't make a coherent argument to support your position.

I think yourself (and others) need to read what is actually in a post,  before resorting to insults and name calling.

Nope, your post implied Doctors being struck of for linking MMR with autism shouldn't have been. Is that the case? If not then not sure why you'd bring it into the discussion. Happy for you to clarify.

No, I didn't imply that. You implied I said that. I brought it up as an example, whereby if medical people might have their own thoughts/concerns on certain vaccines/medication (or even alternative therapy not approved by the NHS), then they dare not say it publicly or to their patients. Going against the grain could mean being struck off.

I mean, we all know about charms. Would your doctor  advice you chuck your ointment in the bin and go see the local man with an apparent charm for psoriasis or whatever? I'd seriously doubt it. Many of us have used them though even if they're not exactly approved by medical experts. Now, I'd doubt a doctor would be sacked for advocating charms, but still, it's not exactly promoted by experts.
If you went to a doctor and there was a scientifically proven treatment for your condition, and they ignored that and instead prescribed you go and rub the bark of a 800 year old oak tree then yes they should be struck off. Same with a doctor not supporting the vaccine program. I'm still really lost on what your point is? Are you trying to argue that there's doctors out there who might not support the vaccine and the proof of this, is that there is no proof as they don't want to be struck off?

I was merely answering your question. And who knows, maybe there are. Clots have been linked to the vaccine, so a patient at risk of clots may be at risk after taking the vaccine. Some doctors might have concerns for such patients in that situation.
It is well documented that the risk of clots is MUCH higher related Covid than the vaccine. Doctors, like you and I when crossing the street, are performing a risk assessment and if they truly believed the vaccine was likely to cause more harm than good then they wouldn't/shouldn't recommend it. Apart from a few notable anti-vaxxers in the medical community, the VAST majority of healthcare professionals GLOBALLY, believe the vaccine is the path out of this mess. They can't all be in fear of being struck off or in the pocket of Big Pharma/The Bilderberg Group/New World Order. Or can they...<Twilight Zone music>
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 27, 2021, 10:02:12 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 07:34:25 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 27, 2021, 06:42:14 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 04:13:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 27, 2021, 02:10:44 PM
Is your issue control Benny? You aren't very clear on your communication tbh. People are trying to second guess you because you aren't clear.

If you don't grasp my point, that's not my fault. But the last number of posts  I'm merely batting away absurd accusations thrown my way.

If I was alone I would agree but I am not. You are putting your point across terribly e.g. the MMR stuff and doctors. Everyone is picking you up wrong so please clarify what is right. When everyone is the maybe that's not on everyone.

Ive already explained, and gave two more examples as well. A few of you have a certain view of myself (and others), and rather than take what I've actually said, you create your own narrative and take it in a different direction.
Benny that's just BS. You threw out a flimsy comment about the MMR and doctors getting struck off. Then when it was picked up you back tracked like feck. As I said earlier you don't have the courage of your convictions. It's a common theme with people who want to be seen to run against the crowd. But the reality is it lacks substance. As you can see here as no one understands what your point was.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 28, 2021, 07:28:17 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 07:34:25 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 27, 2021, 06:42:14 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 04:13:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 27, 2021, 02:10:44 PM
Is your issue control Benny? You aren't very clear on your communication tbh. People are trying to second guess you because you aren't clear.

If you don't grasp my point, that's not my fault. But the last number of posts  I'm merely batting away absurd accusations thrown my way.

If I was alone I would agree but I am not. You are putting your point across terribly e.g. the MMR stuff and doctors. Everyone is picking you up wrong so please clarify what is right. When everyone is the maybe that's not on everyone.

Ive already explained, and gave two more examples as well. A few of you have a certain view of myself (and others), and rather than take what I've actually said, you create your own narrative and take it in a different direction.

I had no view on you but whenever you are giving off about a headline that mentions 60% of people in hospital aren't vaccinated because it doesn't mention 40 aren't then it's hard not to. That and you constantly saying that people have made up their mind on you when you have clearly made up you mind on vaccines etc data or otherwise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 28, 2021, 09:28:24 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 28, 2021, 07:28:17 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 07:34:25 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 27, 2021, 06:42:14 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 04:13:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 27, 2021, 02:10:44 PM
Is your issue control Benny? You aren't very clear on your communication tbh. People are trying to second guess you because you aren't clear.

If you don't grasp my point, that's not my fault. But the last number of posts  I'm merely batting away absurd accusations thrown my way.

If I was alone I would agree but I am not. You are putting your point across terribly e.g. the MMR stuff and doctors. Everyone is picking you up wrong so please clarify what is right. When everyone is the maybe that's not on everyone.

Ive already explained, and gave two more examples as well. A few of you have a certain view of myself (and others), and rather than take what I've actually said, you create your own narrative and take it in a different direction.

I had no view on you but whenever you are giving off about a headline that mentions 60% of people in hospital aren't vaccinated because it doesn't mention 40 aren't then it's hard not to. That and you constantly saying that people have made up their mind on you when you have clearly made up you mind on vaccines etc data or otherwise.

Another poster asked if that meant the other 40 were vaccinated, and I  picked up on it. It's a genuine statement and a reason for concern if it's true, but they  didn't indicate  about the other 40.  And yes, you could say, I'm sure the rest have had their first jab. Which may well have been true, but they never stated that. So, you can see why people have concerns, doubts or be sceptical about it all; figures, news reports, vaccines etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on July 28, 2021, 09:53:06 AM
Peter on the Nolan Show this morning was some craic. Took anti-vaccining to a new level.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 28, 2021, 10:19:36 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 28, 2021, 09:28:24 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 28, 2021, 07:28:17 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 07:34:25 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 27, 2021, 06:42:14 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 27, 2021, 04:13:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 27, 2021, 02:10:44 PM
Is your issue control Benny? You aren't very clear on your communication tbh. People are trying to second guess you because you aren't clear.

If you don't grasp my point, that's not my fault. But the last number of posts  I'm merely batting away absurd accusations thrown my way.

If I was alone I would agree but I am not. You are putting your point across terribly e.g. the MMR stuff and doctors. Everyone is picking you up wrong so please clarify what is right. When everyone is the maybe that's not on everyone.

Ive already explained, and gave two more examples as well. A few of you have a certain view of myself (and others), and rather than take what I've actually said, you create your own narrative and take it in a different direction.

I had no view on you but whenever you are giving off about a headline that mentions 60% of people in hospital aren't vaccinated because it doesn't mention 40 aren't then it's hard not to. That and you constantly saying that people have made up their mind on you when you have clearly made up you mind on vaccines etc data or otherwise.

Another poster asked if that meant the other 40 were vaccinated, and I  picked up on it. It's a genuine statement and a reason for concern if it's true, but they  didn't indicate  about the other 40.  And yes, you could say, I'm sure the rest have had their first jab. Which may well have been true, but they never stated that. So, you can see why people have concerns, doubts or be sceptical about it all; figures, news reports, vaccines etc.

I can see why people have concerns which was why I was genuinely interested in your views but not about 60 vs 40 on a news headline. It's clutching at straws and using anything to try and backup an argument. the 40 could mean 1st jab only or could mean 2 jabs i don't know. If it means either one or two then it's actually a better stat for "pro" vaccine people not a worse one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 28, 2021, 09:53:06 AM
Peter on the Nolan Show this morning was some craic. Took anti-vaccining to a new level.

Saw a tweet that Nolan had put up about a baby being in intensive care in the royal with Covid and the number of responses about the BBC pushing the vaccines and the likes was unreal.

You just can't teach stupid and if they wanted to kill themselves then I'd no issues but they'll take some of the rest of us with them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JohnDenver on July 28, 2021, 10:31:47 AM
For those so vocal about being anti vaccine, is there a way you could refuse them any type of approved medication? Let them live off the land and natural remedies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on July 28, 2021, 12:10:40 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on July 28, 2021, 10:31:47 AM
For those so vocal about being anti vaccine, is there a way you could refuse them any type of approved medication? Let them live off the land and natural remedies.

Unlikely.

What do you do with people who speed and crash or drink/smoke and have to go to hospital
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2021, 12:27:14 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on July 28, 2021, 10:31:47 AM
For those so vocal about being anti vaccine, is there a way you could refuse them any type of approved medication? Let them live off the land and natural remedies.

Doubt it, but insurance companies can take vaccine status into account when underwriting policies.

No vaccine, even though you've no valid medical reason for not getting it? Then you're on your own, financially speaking, when you're hospitalized and maybe even intubated due to covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on July 28, 2021, 12:30:27 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on July 28, 2021, 10:31:47 AM
For those so vocal about being anti vaccine, is there a way you could refuse them any type of approved medication? Let them live off the land and natural remedies.

Jesus this tier 2 society is really ramping up!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 28, 2021, 12:35:06 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on July 28, 2021, 12:30:27 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on July 28, 2021, 10:31:47 AM
For those so vocal about being anti vaccine, is there a way you could refuse them any type of approved medication? Let them live off the land and natural remedies.

Jesus this tier 2 society is really ramping up!

The Intelligent v The Unintelligent?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 12:37:03 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on July 28, 2021, 10:31:47 AM
For those so vocal about being anti vaccine, is there a way you could refuse them any type of approved medication? Let them live off the land and natural remedies.

I'd ask them to sign a DNR so that the NHS can concentrate on people who at least have made an effort to protect themselves..


;D ;D ;D   INCOMING.   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: jftj on July 28, 2021, 03:15:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 28, 2021, 09:53:06 AM
Peter on the Nolan Show this morning was some craic. Took anti-vaccining to a new level.

Saw a tweet that Nolan had put up about a baby being in intensive care in the royal with Covid and the number of responses about the BBC pushing the vaccines and the likes was unreal.

You just can't teach stupid and if they wanted to kill themselves then I'd no issues but they'll take some of the rest of us with them
Bedwetter alert.Suppose you want the kids jabbed up to protect you also even though this highly infectious disease doesnt effect them.Grow a pair.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 03:24:14 PM
Quote from: jftj on July 28, 2021, 03:15:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 28, 2021, 09:53:06 AM
Peter on the Nolan Show this morning was some craic. Took anti-vaccining to a new level.

Saw a tweet that Nolan had put up about a baby being in intensive care in the royal with Covid and the number of responses about the BBC pushing the vaccines and the likes was unreal.

You just can't teach stupid and if they wanted to kill themselves then I'd no issues but they'll take some of the rest of us with them
Bedwetter alert.Suppose you want the kids jabbed up to protect you also even though this highly infectious disease doesnt effect them.Grow a pair.

As I say, you can't teach stupid.  (https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia0.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F20NMuAn54YG4cT4NwE%2Fsource.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 28, 2021, 03:25:26 PM
Quote from: jftj on July 28, 2021, 03:15:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 28, 2021, 09:53:06 AM
Peter on the Nolan Show this morning was some craic. Took anti-vaccining to a new level.

Saw a tweet that Nolan had put up about a baby being in intensive care in the royal with Covid and the number of responses about the BBC pushing the vaccines and the likes was unreal.

You just can't teach stupid and if they wanted to kill themselves then I'd no issues but they'll take some of the rest of us with them
Bedwetter alert.Suppose you want the kids jabbed up to protect you also even though this highly infectious disease doesnt effect them.Grow a pair.

Imagine vaccinating wains, perish the thought.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 28, 2021, 03:28:32 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on July 28, 2021, 03:25:26 PM
Quote from: jftj on July 28, 2021, 03:15:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 28, 2021, 09:53:06 AM
Peter on the Nolan Show this morning was some craic. Took anti-vaccining to a new level.

Saw a tweet that Nolan had put up about a baby being in intensive care in the royal with Covid and the number of responses about the BBC pushing the vaccines and the likes was unreal.

You just can't teach stupid and if they wanted to kill themselves then I'd no issues but they'll take some of the rest of us with them
Bedwetter alert.Suppose you want the kids jabbed up to protect you also even though this highly infectious disease doesnt effect them.Grow a pair.

Imagine vaccinating wains, perish the thought.
Won't someone think of the children....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: jftj on July 28, 2021, 03:31:20 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 03:24:14 PM
Quote from: jftj on July 28, 2021, 03:15:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 28, 2021, 09:53:06 AM
Peter on the Nolan Show this morning was some craic. Took anti-vaccining to a new level.

Saw a tweet that Nolan had put up about a baby being in intensive care in the royal with Covid and the number of responses about the BBC pushing the vaccines and the likes was unreal.

You just can't teach stupid and if they wanted to kill themselves then I'd no issues but they'll take some of the rest of us with them
Bedwetter alert.Suppose you want the kids jabbed up to protect you also even though this highly infectious disease doesnt effect them.Grow a pair.

As I say, you can't teach stupid.  (https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia0.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F20NMuAn54YG4cT4NwE%2Fsource.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 03:24:14 PM
Quote from: jftj on July 28, 2021, 03:15:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 28, 2021, 09:53:06 AM
Peter on the Nolan Show this morning was some craic. Took anti-vaccining to a new level.

Saw a tweet that Nolan had put up about a baby being in intensive care in the royal with Covid and the number of responses about the BBC pushing the vaccines and the likes was unreal.

You just can't teach stupid and if they wanted to kill themselves then I'd no issues but they'll take some of the rest of us with them
Bedwetter alert.Suppose you want the kids jabbed up to protect you also even though this highly infectious disease doesnt effect them.Grow a pair.

As I say, you can't teach stupid.  (https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia0.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F20NMuAn54YG4cT4NwE%2Fsource.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
How many healthy kids died of covid in the north last year Pissy?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 03:35:56 PM
Quote from: jftj on July 28, 2021, 03:31:20 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 03:24:14 PM
Quote from: jftj on July 28, 2021, 03:15:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 28, 2021, 09:53:06 AM
Peter on the Nolan Show this morning was some craic. Took anti-vaccining to a new level.

Saw a tweet that Nolan had put up about a baby being in intensive care in the royal with Covid and the number of responses about the BBC pushing the vaccines and the likes was unreal.

You just can't teach stupid and if they wanted to kill themselves then I'd no issues but they'll take some of the rest of us with them
Bedwetter alert.Suppose you want the kids jabbed up to protect you also even though this highly infectious disease doesnt effect them.Grow a pair.

As I say, you can't teach stupid.  (https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia0.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F20NMuAn54YG4cT4NwE%2Fsource.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 03:24:14 PM
Quote from: jftj on July 28, 2021, 03:15:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 28, 2021, 09:53:06 AM
Peter on the Nolan Show this morning was some craic. Took anti-vaccining to a new level.

Saw a tweet that Nolan had put up about a baby being in intensive care in the royal with Covid and the number of responses about the BBC pushing the vaccines and the likes was unreal.

You just can't teach stupid and if they wanted to kill themselves then I'd no issues but they'll take some of the rest of us with them
Bedwetter alert.Suppose you want the kids jabbed up to protect you also even though this highly infectious disease doesnt effect them.Grow a pair.

As I say, you can't teach stupid.  (https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia0.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F20NMuAn54YG4cT4NwE%2Fsource.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
How many healthy kids died of covid in the north last year Pissy?

I'm only after posting that there's a baby in intensive care with Covid. They must have done that for the craic.

Not to mention long Covid, but sure it'll affect them for the rest of their lives but they didn't die. That's OK then.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: jftj on July 28, 2021, 03:42:10 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 03:35:56 PM
Quote from: jftj on July 28, 2021, 03:31:20 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 03:24:14 PM
Quote from: jftj on July 28, 2021, 03:15:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 28, 2021, 09:53:06 AM
Peter on the Nolan Show this morning was some craic. Took anti-vaccining to a new level.

Saw a tweet that Nolan had put up about a baby being in intensive care in the royal with Covid and the number of responses about the BBC pushing the vaccines and the likes was unreal.

You just can't teach stupid and if they wanted to kill themselves then I'd no issues but they'll take some of the rest of us with them
Bedwetter alert.Suppose you want the kids jabbed up to protect you also even though this highly infectious disease doesnt effect them.Grow a pair.

As I say, you can't teach stupid.  (https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia0.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F20NMuAn54YG4cT4NwE%2Fsource.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 03:24:14 PM
Quote from: jftj on July 28, 2021, 03:15:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 10:24:01 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 28, 2021, 09:53:06 AM
Peter on the Nolan Show this morning was some craic. Took anti-vaccining to a new level.

Saw a tweet that Nolan had put up about a baby being in intensive care in the royal with Covid and the number of responses about the BBC pushing the vaccines and the likes was unreal.

You just can't teach stupid and if they wanted to kill themselves then I'd no issues but they'll take some of the rest of us with them
Bedwetter alert.Suppose you want the kids jabbed up to protect you also even though this highly infectious disease doesnt effect them.Grow a pair.

As I say, you can't teach stupid.  (https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia0.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F20NMuAn54YG4cT4NwE%2Fsource.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
How many healthy kids died of covid in the north last year Pissy?

I'm only after posting that there's a baby in intensive care with Covid. They must have done that for the craic.

Not to mention long Covid, but sure it'll affect them for the rest of their lives but they didn't die. That's OK then.
why did you not answer the question?i will give you a clue.its between 0 and 0.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 04:03:44 PM
you said "this highly infectious disease doesn't effect them" after I pointed out that there was a baby in intensive care FFS.

Your big, beefy, masculine balls must be taking all the blood that's meant to be going to your brain.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on July 28, 2021, 04:10:42 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 04:03:44 PM
you said "this highly infectious disease doesn't effect them" after I pointed out that there was a baby in intensive care FFS.

Your big, beefy, masculine balls must be taking all the blood that's meant to be going to your brain.

And you have the issue of MIS-C, which appears to be linked to Covid in kids.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/misc-and-covid19-rare-inflammatory-syndrome-in-kids-and-teens (https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/misc-and-covid19-rare-inflammatory-syndrome-in-kids-and-teens)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on July 28, 2021, 04:15:15 PM
You gotta laugh at these w8nkers who think it's ballsy to try to box with a virus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: jftj on July 28, 2021, 04:27:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 04:03:44 PM
you said "this highly infectious disease doesn't effect them" after I pointed out that there was a baby in intensive care FFS.

Your big, beefy, masculine balls must be taking all the blood that's meant to be going to your brain.
you do know a big percentage of people are picking up covid in hospitals.Even the bbc and rte propaganda machines could not deny this.Also Pissy,any mention whether the mother was vaccinated or not as you well know miscarriages are through the roof for vaccinated expectant mothers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 28, 2021, 04:32:42 PM
Quote from: jftj on July 28, 2021, 04:27:24 PM
you do know a big percentage of people are picking up covid in hospitals.Even the bbc and rte propaganda machines could not deny this.Also Pissy,any mention whether the mother was vaccinated or not as you well know miscarriages are through the roof for vaccinated expectant mothers.

Stop posting lies. There is no evidence of any relationship between miscarriage and vaccination.
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-miscarriage-vaccine-idUSL1N2LT21A
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/07/25/fact-check-covid-19-vaccines-not-risky-pregnant-women-study-says/7899594002/

Would you like to comment on the relationship between miscarriage and Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 28, 2021, 04:33:08 PM
Dr Holohan on if we are tracking better than predicted with regard to Delta variant.

Yes there is reasons for optimism particularly due to vaccine uptake which is among the "best in the world."

We may be "weeks" away from a situation where we can move away from restrictions on society and economy. The more vaccines we get done, the sooner we'll be out of all of this and that day may be sooner than we think.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: jftj on July 28, 2021, 04:35:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 28, 2021, 04:32:42 PM
Quote from: jftj on July 28, 2021, 04:27:24 PM
you do know a big percentage of people are picking up covid in hospitals.Even the bbc and rte propaganda machines could not deny this.Also Pissy,any mention whether the mother was vaccinated or not as you well know miscarriages are through the roof for vaccinated expectant mothers.

Stop posting lies. There is no evidence of any relationship between miscarriage and vaccination.
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-miscarriage-vaccine-idUSL1N2LT21A
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/07/25/fact-check-covid-19-vaccines-not-risky-pregnant-women-study-says/7899594002/reuters and usa today lol.May as well swap them for bbc and rte.

Would you like to comment on the relationship between miscarriage and Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on July 28, 2021, 04:35:49 PM
Quote from: jftj on July 28, 2021, 04:27:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 04:03:44 PM
you said "this highly infectious disease doesn't effect them" after I pointed out that there was a baby in intensive care FFS.

Your big, beefy, masculine balls must be taking all the blood that's meant to be going to your brain.
you do know a big percentage of people are picking up covid in hospitals.Even the bbc and rte propaganda machines could not deny this.Also Pissy,any mention whether the mother was vaccinated or not as you well know miscarriages are through the roof for vaccinated expectant mothers.
[/b]

Id be interested in your source for that  as it's already been corrected to say that's not the case.

Edit- Armagh already posted the link.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 28, 2021, 05:18:34 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 28, 2021, 04:33:08 PM
Dr Holohan on if we are tracking better than predicted with regard to Delta variant.

Yes there is reasons for optimism particularly due to vaccine uptake which is among the "best in the world."

We may be "weeks" away from a situation where we can move away from restrictions on society and economy. The more vaccines we get done, the sooner we'll be out of all of this and that day may be sooner than we think.

England hasn't been too bad on Delta and we are better. We need to get vaccination up to Icelandic levels, and check people coming into the country, and then we could pretty much relax. The problem is that the anti-vax loolahs will stop us getting there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 28, 2021, 05:22:03 PM
Quote from: jftj on July 28, 2021, 04:27:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 04:03:44 PM
you said "this highly infectious disease doesn't effect them" after I pointed out that there was a baby in intensive care FFS.

Your big, beefy, masculine balls must be taking all the blood that's meant to be going to your brain.
you do know a big percentage of people are picking up covid in hospitals.Even the bbc and rte propaganda machines could not deny this.Also Pissy,any mention whether the mother was vaccinated or not as you well know miscarriages are through the roof for vaccinated expectant mothers.

This should result in a permanent ban.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on July 28, 2021, 05:52:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 28, 2021, 05:22:03 PM
Quote from: jftj on July 28, 2021, 04:27:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 04:03:44 PM
you said "this highly infectious disease doesn't effect them" after I pointed out that there was a baby in intensive care FFS.

Your big, beefy, masculine balls must be taking all the blood that's meant to be going to your brain.
you do know a big percentage of people are picking up covid in hospitals.Even the bbc and rte propaganda machines could not deny this.Also Pissy,any mention whether the mother was vaccinated or not as you well know miscarriages are through the roof for vaccinated expectant mothers.

This should result in a permanent ban.
Totally agree. 

We have contributors here talking shite about football and hurling when they haven't the first clue about what they are on about.  But that's fine because its a GAAboard and it isn't life and death. 

However, the moderators SHOULD NOT be allowing this board to be used as a platform for spreading the kind of of crazy lies that are discouraging people from vaccinating themselves against a disease that continues to kill people. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: jftj on July 28, 2021, 06:04:01 PM
Quote from: APM on July 28, 2021, 05:52:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 28, 2021, 05:22:03 PM
Quote from: jftj on July 28, 2021, 04:27:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 04:03:44 PM
you said "this highly infectious disease doesn't effect them" after I pointed out that there was a baby in intensive care FFS.

Your big, beefy, masculine balls must be taking all the blood that's meant to be going to your brain.
you do know a big percentage of people are picking up covid in hospitals.Even the bbc and rte propaganda machines could not deny this.Also Pissy,any mention whether the mother was vaccinated or not as you well know miscarriages are through the roof for vaccinated expectant mothers.
gonna ban myself sheeple.Try to get out from behind the sofa now won,t you.Pissy they are doing a 2 for 1 deal in argos for mattress protectors.Now try not to blame the unvaccinated too much when the shit hits the fan come winter.Maybe the only thing that wakes a few of you up.

This should result in a permanent ban.
Totally agree. 

We have contributors here talking shite about football and hurling when they haven't the first clue about what they are on about.  But that's fine because its a GAAboard and it isn't life and death. 

However, the moderators SHOULD NOT be allowing this board to be used as an platform for spreading the kind of of crazy lies that are discouraging people from vaccinating themselves against a disease that continues to kill people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on July 28, 2021, 06:24:15 PM
Quote from: jftj on July 28, 2021, 04:27:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 04:03:44 PM
you said "this highly infectious disease doesn't effect them" after I pointed out that there was a baby in intensive care FFS.

Your big, beefy, masculine balls must be taking all the blood that's meant to be going to your brain.
you do know a big percentage of people are picking up covid in hospitals.Even the bbc and rte propaganda machines could not deny this.Also Pissy,any mention whether the mother was vaccinated or not as you well know miscarriages are through the roof for vaccinated expectant mothers.

Will some of the mods please get rid of this post/poster. This is dangerous dangerous stuff.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 28, 2021, 06:43:30 PM
Wee Jimmy is another poster's sock puppet no doubt.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Orior on July 28, 2021, 08:53:59 PM
Where is the most trusted site for covid death stats by country?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GAABoardMod5 on July 28, 2021, 09:01:30 PM
Quote from: jftj on July 28, 2021, 06:04:01 PM
Quote from: APM on July 28, 2021, 05:52:55 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 28, 2021, 05:22:03 PM
Quote from: jftj on July 28, 2021, 04:27:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2021, 04:03:44 PM
you said "this highly infectious disease doesn't effect them" after I pointed out that there was a baby in intensive care FFS.

Your big, beefy, masculine balls must be taking all the blood that's meant to be going to your brain.
you do know a big percentage of people are picking up covid in hospitals.Even the bbc and rte propaganda machines could not deny this.Also Pissy,any mention whether the mother was vaccinated or not as you well know miscarriages are through the roof for vaccinated expectant mothers.
gonna ban myself sheeple.Try to get out from behind the sofa now won,t you.Pissy they are doing a 2 for 1 deal in argos for mattress protectors.Now try not to blame the unvaccinated too much when the shit hits the fan come winter.Maybe the only thing that wakes a few of you up.

This should result in a permanent ban.
Totally agree. 

We have contributors here talking shite about football and hurling when they haven't the first clue about what they are on about.  But that's fine because its a GAAboard and it isn't life and death. 

However, the moderators SHOULD NOT be allowing this board to be used as an platform for spreading the kind of of crazy lies that are discouraging people from vaccinating themselves against a disease that continues to kill people.

Your wish is granted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on July 29, 2021, 02:38:36 PM
Professor of Immunology at Maynooth University, Paul Moynagh, said the pandemic could be changing course in vaccinated nations.

"I think we're getting very close, the number of countries like ourselves, like the UK and most countries in Europe, I think we're getting very close to the end of the pandemic phase,"

"We'll probably move more into an endemic phase where the virus will be circulating in the background but thankfully, most of us will be protected by either vaccination or natural immunity through infection so that will prevent us from getting very ill, very sick."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on July 29, 2021, 07:56:23 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 29, 2021, 02:38:36 PM
Professor of Immunology at Maynooth University, Paul Moynagh, said the pandemic could be changing course in vaccinated nations.

"I think we're getting very close, the number of countries like ourselves, like the UK and most countries in Europe, I think we're getting very close to the end of the pandemic phase,"

"We'll probably move more into an endemic phase where the virus will be circulating in the background but thankfully, most of us will be protected by either vaccination or natural immunity through infection so that will prevent us from getting very ill, very sick."
That would be amazing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 29, 2021, 09:25:32 PM
Quote from: Orior on July 28, 2021, 08:53:59 PM
Where is the most trusted site for covid death stats by country?

Worldometers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Scarlet on July 30, 2021, 10:42:55 AM
I see a lot of the pubs and restaurants that have lovely big outdoor areas who said they would not support a 'two-tier society' are now open indoors and asking for the documents seeing as it's pissing rain...





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 30, 2021, 11:11:50 AM
Perhaps the rain will drive the vaccination programme. Ill wind and all that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 30, 2021, 11:19:29 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on July 30, 2021, 10:42:55 AM
I see a lot of the pubs and restaurants that have lovely big outdoor areas who said they would not support a 'two-tier society' are now open indoors and asking for the documents seeing as it's pissing rain...
Money talks. Can see most places not being too strict on asking for certs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on July 30, 2021, 11:26:10 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on July 30, 2021, 10:42:55 AM
I see a lot of the pubs and restaurants that have lovely big outdoor areas who said they would not support a 'two-tier society' are now open indoors and asking for the documents seeing as it's pissing rain...

Two-tier society... Christ but the vocal right wing Covid deniers are doing their level best to divide as much as they can.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on July 30, 2021, 11:32:49 AM
I know that quote attributed to Macron's is fake, but the sentiment is right. Me and my family have done everything, stayed at home, cut our interactions, wore masks, and me and my wife are now vaccinated. I have done my bit, and it's fine it some people don't want to get vaccinated but they can f**king stay at home now. They can eat outside in pissing rain. It's a disgrace that they aren't willing to do the right thing for society. And the absolute irony of them talking about fascism and human rights. If the Nazi's turned up today, based on how they see it as "I'm alright Jack" they wouldn't even speak out against them!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on July 30, 2021, 03:36:31 PM
AstraZeneca vaccine blood clot risk is no higher than the Pfizer Covid jab, study says http://a.msn.com/05/en-gb/AAMIfVe?ocid=se

The AstraZeneca vaccine is no more dangerous than the Pfizer alternative and patients are more likely to get blood clots from Covid-19 than the jab, a new study has found.


In an article published in The Lancet this week, scientists said the Oxford-made vaccine had a "similar safety profile" to the Pfizer/BioNTech jab.

The study of more than a million people in Catalonia, Spain, found that incidents of rare blood clots – or thrombosis – happened at a "similar" rate with both vaccines.

And the likelihood of suffering with blood clots was far higher among people who tested positive with Covid-19 than those who had either vaccine.

The study was funded by the European Medicines Agency (EMA) which had warned back in April of a "possible link" between the AstraZeneca shot and clots.

Following the warning, use of the vaccine was restricted around the world.

The findings provided a moment of vindication for the British Government which has been forced repeatedly to defend the UK-made jab.

Politico reported anger among government officials that the EMA's warning had led to high levels of vaccine hesitancy in developing countries where the jab is desperately needed.

It came as the UK Government celebrated news that one billion doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine have been released to more than 170 countries around the world.

A spokesman for the Prime Minister said it was a "fantastic achievement and we know that the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine will and has saved countless lives around the world".

"And by making it available at cost, we have ensured it can be distributed to as many countries as possible to save as many lives as possible."

And, as the UK began shipping spare doses to developing nations, Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab said sharing excess jabs could leave the world "adequately vaccinated" by mid-2022.

Five million doses are to be distributed via the World Health Organisation's Covax scheme and another four million bilaterally.

"We are safer when the rest of the world is safer," Mr Raab told Sky News during a visit to an AstraZeneca manufacturing site on Thursday.

He added: "The reason we want to do that is we want to get the world adequately vaccinated by the middle of next year rather than, on current trajectory, the end of 2024."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on July 30, 2021, 03:43:42 PM
https://metro.co.uk/2021/07/29/uk-nearing-herd-immunity-as-87-of-people-likely-have-covid-antibodies-15005938/?ito=article.desktop.share.top.email

Of Course, NI being the bastardised son, we'll hardly feel that benefit - it's GB really.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 30, 2021, 06:37:46 PM
The clots are not a substantial problem since they now know what to look out for. But the herd immunity thing illustrates that if you not have a vaccine then are likely to get Covid, if out and about at all, so you would be exposed to the higher risk from the real Covid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on July 31, 2021, 10:07:35 PM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on July 30, 2021, 10:42:55 AM
'two-tier society'

There should be a two tier society right now.

1. The dumb fukks that are ostracised.
2. The rest of us.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2021, 08:58:35 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 30, 2021, 06:37:46 PM
The clots are not a substantial problem since they now know what to look out for. But the herd immunity thing illustrates that if you not have a vaccine then are likely to get Covid, if out and about at all, so you would be exposed to the higher risk from the real Covid

An anti vaccine person that I know caught Covid recently, he's been in bed for the last 3 weeks, can't wait to see him and see if he's changed his mind
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 01, 2021, 11:20:11 AM
Having the vaccine reduces your chances of getting Covid.You might as well say that a seatbelt or motorbike helmet does not guarantee survival in an accident. The are no guarantees, but you do the logical thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 01, 2021, 06:59:50 PM
ROI weekly update.it's not sharply rising like we've seen before when cases are this high and hospitalisations aren't drastically rising either.

9,260 cases (655 more than last Sunday but a much smaller increase compared to 2 Sundays ago when it was a increase of over 3,000 cases)

26 in ICU (increase of 4 on last Sunday)
163 in hospital (40 more than a week ago)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on August 02, 2021, 09:27:37 AM
It's pretty clear that we're moving towards personal responsibility. Governments can't keep economies afloat indefinitely. The vaccine is available. If you refuse to take it that's fine, but you will run the risk of getting sick and dying.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 02, 2021, 09:45:05 AM
Reading a bit round delta variant it seems to be causing a lot more younger people to be hospitalised - infants included. I was reading a thread from a doctor in the states saying that the people going into ICU this time were much younger.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on August 02, 2021, 10:32:02 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2021, 09:45:05 AM
Reading a bit round delta variant it seems to be causing a lot more younger people to be hospitalised - infants included. I was reading a thread from a doctor in the states saying that the people going into ICU this time were much younger.

And the anti-vax (poison) Freedom Alliance's Front of Judea are pushing the 'save our children' narrative these days. Marching mask less with kids who are no doubt vaccined to the hilt. I suppose people just need to belong to something
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tbrick18 on August 02, 2021, 10:53:14 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on July 31, 2021, 10:07:35 PM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on July 30, 2021, 10:42:55 AM
'two-tier society'

There should be a two tier society right now.

1. The dumb fukks that are ostracised.
2. The rest of us.

+1

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 08, 2021, 04:30:17 PM
ROI weekly update. A bigger rise in cases this week than last not sure what has caused that, while hospital numbers seems to have a simliar increase each week now.

10,619 cases (1359 more than last Saturday
208 in hospital (45 more than a week ago)
31 In ICU (increase of 5 on last Sunday)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 08, 2021, 04:40:23 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 08, 2021, 04:30:17 PM
ROI weekly update. A bigger rise in cases this week than last not sure what has caused that, while hospital numbers seems to have a simliar increase each week now.

Bank Holiday weekend?

A rising trend coming into the education year wouldn't be good.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 09, 2021, 01:25:12 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 08, 2021, 04:30:17 PM
ROI weekly update. A bigger rise in cases this week than last not sure what has caused that, while hospital numbers seems to have a simliar increase each week now.

10,619 cases (1359 more than last Saturday
208 in hospital (45 more than a week ago)
31 In ICU (increase of 5 on last Sunday)

Cases are rising everywhere.

This f**king thing should be just about done, at least in the west where vaccines are plentiful, but here we go again for another wave, with a much more serious strain, and with young kids still without a vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 09, 2021, 01:42:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 09, 2021, 01:25:12 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 08, 2021, 04:30:17 PM
ROI weekly update. A bigger rise in cases this week than last not sure what has caused that, while hospital numbers seems to have a simliar increase each week now.

10,619 cases (1359 more than last Saturday
208 in hospital (45 more than a week ago)
31 In ICU (increase of 5 on last Sunday)

Cases are rising everywhere.

This f**king thing should be just about done, at least in the west where vaccines are plentiful, but here we go again for another wave, with a much more serious strain, and with young kids still without a vaccine.
Shouldn't be more serious with vaccines.

As per HSE today..

20% of Ireland's new confirmed cases are people who are fully vaccinated. And those vaccinated people are reporting very mild illness"

Thats a successful vaccine,  as history has told us once any virus becomes a mild illness things can return to normal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 09, 2021, 02:02:53 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 09, 2021, 01:42:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 09, 2021, 01:25:12 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 08, 2021, 04:30:17 PM
ROI weekly update. A bigger rise in cases this week than last not sure what has caused that, while hospital numbers seems to have a simliar increase each week now.

10,619 cases (1359 more than last Saturday
208 in hospital (45 more than a week ago)
31 In ICU (increase of 5 on last Sunday)

Cases are rising everywhere.

This f**king thing should be just about done, at least in the west where vaccines are plentiful, but here we go again for another wave, with a much more serious strain, and with young kids still without a vaccine.
Shouldn't be more serious with vaccines.

As per HSE today..

20% of Ireland's new confirmed cases are people who are fully vaccinated. And those vaccinated people are reporting very mild illness"

Thats a successful vaccine,  as history has told us once any virus becomes a mild illness things can return to normal.

Unfortunately over here in the states, there are significant numbers of people who refuse to get vaccinated, and they are putting themselves and unvaccinated kids (including my own) at serious risk from both the delta variant and whatever other variants are currently developing and starting to spread.

Fortunately, some parts of the US, in both the public and private spheres, are bringing in vaccine mandates. Hopefully that will help overcome the effects of some of the nonsense being spread around.

My kids summer school program has already been impacted by positive covid tests. The new school year is going to be the same. Speaking personally, my work, at least, has already said they're going to be much less flexible about allowing people to work from home if their kids classes are switch to remote due to covid testing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on August 09, 2021, 02:31:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 09, 2021, 02:02:53 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 09, 2021, 01:42:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 09, 2021, 01:25:12 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 08, 2021, 04:30:17 PM
ROI weekly update. A bigger rise in cases this week than last not sure what has caused that, while hospital numbers seems to have a simliar increase each week now.

10,619 cases (1359 more than last Saturday
208 in hospital (45 more than a week ago)
31 In ICU (increase of 5 on last Sunday)

Cases are rising everywhere.

This f**king thing should be just about done, at least in the west where vaccines are plentiful, but here we go again for another wave, with a much more serious strain, and with young kids still without a vaccine.
Shouldn't be more serious with vaccines.

As per HSE today..

20% of Ireland's new confirmed cases are people who are fully vaccinated. And those vaccinated people are reporting very mild illness"

Thats a successful vaccine,  as history has told us once any virus becomes a mild illness things can return to normal.

Unfortunately over here in the states, there are significant numbers of people who refuse to get vaccinated, and they are putting themselves and unvaccinated kids (including my own) at serious risk from both the delta variant and whatever other variants are currently developing and starting to spread.

Fortunately, some parts of the US, in both the public and private spheres, are bringing in vaccine mandates. Hopefully that will help overcome the effects of some of the nonsense being spread around.

My kids summer school program has already been impacted by positive covid tests. The new school year is going to be the same. Speaking personally, my work, at least, has already said they're going to be much less flexible about allowing people to work from home if their kids classes are switch to remote due to covid testing.

How? Surely the only people they are putting at risk is themselves?  The vaccine doesnt stop people from getting the virus, carrying it and passing it on.  By not getting the vaccine they are risking their own reaction to the virus if they get it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 09, 2021, 02:56:49 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on August 09, 2021, 02:31:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 09, 2021, 02:02:53 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 09, 2021, 01:42:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 09, 2021, 01:25:12 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 08, 2021, 04:30:17 PM
ROI weekly update. A bigger rise in cases this week than last not sure what has caused that, while hospital numbers seems to have a simliar increase each week now.

10,619 cases (1359 more than last Saturday
208 in hospital (45 more than a week ago)
31 In ICU (increase of 5 on last Sunday)

Cases are rising everywhere.

This f**king thing should be just about done, at least in the west where vaccines are plentiful, but here we go again for another wave, with a much more serious strain, and with young kids still without a vaccine.
Shouldn't be more serious with vaccines.

As per HSE today..

20% of Ireland's new confirmed cases are people who are fully vaccinated. And those vaccinated people are reporting very mild illness"

Thats a successful vaccine,  as history has told us once any virus becomes a mild illness things can return to normal.

Unfortunately over here in the states, there are significant numbers of people who refuse to get vaccinated, and they are putting themselves and unvaccinated kids (including my own) at serious risk from both the delta variant and whatever other variants are currently developing and starting to spread.

Fortunately, some parts of the US, in both the public and private spheres, are bringing in vaccine mandates. Hopefully that will help overcome the effects of some of the nonsense being spread around.

My kids summer school program has already been impacted by positive covid tests. The new school year is going to be the same. Speaking personally, my work, at least, has already said they're going to be much less flexible about allowing people to work from home if their kids classes are switch to remote due to covid testing.

How? Surely the only people they are putting at risk is themselves?  The vaccine doesnt stop people from getting the virus, carrying it and passing it on.  By not getting the vaccine they are risking their own reaction to the virus if they get it.

The more disease and spread there is, the greater the chances of mutations leading to increased virulence and transmissibility. That includes the evolution of possible new strains that could render existing vaccines less effective.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 09, 2021, 03:00:19 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on August 09, 2021, 02:31:07 PM
How? Surely the only people they are putting at risk is themselves?  The vaccine doesnt stop people from getting the virus, carrying it and passing it on.  By not getting the vaccine they are risking their own reaction to the virus if they get it.

Seatbelts do not stop road accidents, helmets do not prevent injuries in hurling, but in both cases they improve things. Likewise, with vaccines, they do not prevent transmission but they reduce it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on August 09, 2021, 03:30:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 09, 2021, 02:56:49 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on August 09, 2021, 02:31:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 09, 2021, 02:02:53 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 09, 2021, 01:42:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 09, 2021, 01:25:12 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 08, 2021, 04:30:17 PM
ROI weekly update. A bigger rise in cases this week than last not sure what has caused that, while hospital numbers seems to have a simliar increase each week now.

10,619 cases (1359 more than last Saturday
208 in hospital (45 more than a week ago)
31 In ICU (increase of 5 on last Sunday)

Cases are rising everywhere.

This f**king thing should be just about done, at least in the west where vaccines are plentiful, but here we go again for another wave, with a much more serious strain, and with young kids still without a vaccine.
Shouldn't be more serious with vaccines.

As per HSE today..

20% of Ireland's new confirmed cases are people who are fully vaccinated. And those vaccinated people are reporting very mild illness"

Thats a successful vaccine,  as history has told us once any virus becomes a mild illness things can return to normal.

Unfortunately over here in the states, there are significant numbers of people who refuse to get vaccinated, and they are putting themselves and unvaccinated kids (including my own) at serious risk from both the delta variant and whatever other variants are currently developing and starting to spread.

Fortunately, some parts of the US, in both the public and private spheres, are bringing in vaccine mandates. Hopefully that will help overcome the effects of some of the nonsense being spread around.

My kids summer school program has already been impacted by positive covid tests. The new school year is going to be the same. Speaking personally, my work, at least, has already said they're going to be much less flexible about allowing people to work from home if their kids classes are switch to remote due to covid testing.

How? Surely the only people they are putting at risk is themselves?  The vaccine doesnt stop people from getting the virus, carrying it and passing it on.  By not getting the vaccine they are risking their own reaction to the virus if they get it.

The more disease and spread there is, the greater the chances of mutations leading to increased virulence and transmissibility. That includes the evolution of possible new strains that could render existing vaccines less effective.

Honestly can't believe this has to be explained again at this stage of proceedings.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on August 09, 2021, 03:34:41 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on August 09, 2021, 02:31:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 09, 2021, 02:02:53 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 09, 2021, 01:42:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 09, 2021, 01:25:12 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 08, 2021, 04:30:17 PM
ROI weekly update. A bigger rise in cases this week than last not sure what has caused that, while hospital numbers seems to have a simliar increase each week now.

10,619 cases (1359 more than last Saturday
208 in hospital (45 more than a week ago)
31 In ICU (increase of 5 on last Sunday)

Cases are rising everywhere.

This f**king thing should be just about done, at least in the west where vaccines are plentiful, but here we go again for another wave, with a much more serious strain, and with young kids still without a vaccine.
Shouldn't be more serious with vaccines.

As per HSE today..

20% of Ireland's new confirmed cases are people who are fully vaccinated. And those vaccinated people are reporting very mild illness"

Thats a successful vaccine,  as history has told us once any virus becomes a mild illness things can return to normal.

Unfortunately over here in the states, there are significant numbers of people who refuse to get vaccinated, and they are putting themselves and unvaccinated kids (including my own) at serious risk from both the delta variant and whatever other variants are currently developing and starting to spread.

Fortunately, some parts of the US, in both the public and private spheres, are bringing in vaccine mandates. Hopefully that will help overcome the effects of some of the nonsense being spread around.

My kids summer school program has already been impacted by positive covid tests. The new school year is going to be the same. Speaking personally, my work, at least, has already said they're going to be much less flexible about allowing people to work from home if their kids classes are switch to remote due to covid testing.

How? Surely the only people they are putting at risk is themselves?  The vaccine doesnt stop people from getting the virus, carrying it and passing it on.  By not getting the vaccine they are risking their own reaction to the virus if they get it.
I seen this mentioned on the Tyrone Kerry thread as well. Though true the various vaccines have be proven to greatly reduce transmission along with reducing severity of illness.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on August 09, 2021, 03:36:26 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on August 09, 2021, 03:20:56 PM
Educate yourselves

https://video.foxnews.com/v/video-embed.html?video_id=6266738894001&ref=twitter.com&fbclid=IwAR0JoBUcAqtY0fhkrtJoniErD8R1CQYVnbijUGQyCbSzzVlEu5vD3Npiqnc (https://video.foxnews.com/v/video-embed.html?video_id=6266738894001&ref=twitter.com&fbclid=IwAR0JoBUcAqtY0fhkrtJoniErD8R1CQYVnbijUGQyCbSzzVlEu5vD3Npiqnc)
Yep, the best way to protect against variants is for everyone to get Covid and build up natural immunity. Herd immunity.
The immunoligist didn't get into the downside regarding the millions of deaths that would cause, but he wasn't asked.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 09, 2021, 03:45:34 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 09, 2021, 03:30:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 09, 2021, 02:56:49 PM
The more disease and spread there is, the greater the chances of mutations leading to increased virulence and transmissibility. That includes the evolution of possible new strains that could render existing vaccines less effective.

Honestly can't believe this has to be explained again at this stage of proceedings.

This is true and obvious. The issue is that even if N. America or Europe do get a lot of people vaccinated, the variants can still arise in the rest of the world that is not vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 09, 2021, 03:50:39 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 09, 2021, 03:36:26 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on August 09, 2021, 03:20:56 PM
Educate yourselves

https://video.foxnews.com/v/video-embed.html?video_id=6266738894001&ref=twitter.com&fbclid=IwAR0JoBUcAqtY0fhkrtJoniErD8R1CQYVnbijUGQyCbSzzVlEu5vD3Npiqnc (https://video.foxnews.com/v/video-embed.html?video_id=6266738894001&ref=twitter.com&fbclid=IwAR0JoBUcAqtY0fhkrtJoniErD8R1CQYVnbijUGQyCbSzzVlEu5vD3Npiqnc)
Yep, the best way to protect against variants is for everyone to get Covid and build up natural immunity. Herd immunity.
The immunoligist didn't get into the downside regarding the millions of deaths that would cause, but he wasn't asked.

Of course he wasn't asked.

Six weeks ago this same immunologist was pushing an allegation that the vaccine was in fact toxic.

Its amazing how the "scientists" who Fox News turn to, whether on Covid or climate change or evolution or environmental issues, always seem to be some crank making spurious claims completely at odds with the general scientific consensus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on August 09, 2021, 03:55:57 PM
I've read a few articles lately that seem to confirm a double vaccinated person carries the same viral / transmissible load as an unvaccinated person, bar protecting yourself, unless you're still wearing face masks & social distancing everyone's a potential liability.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on August 09, 2021, 04:15:57 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 09, 2021, 03:55:57 PM
I've read a few articles lately that seem to confirm a double vaccinated person carries the same viral / transmissible load as an unvaccinated person, bar protecting yourself, unless you're still wearing face masks & social distancing everyone's a potential liability.
Where are these articles benny?

There's lot of real data showing that the risk of catching Covid is vastly reduced among the vaccinated.

Here's on RTE today:
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0808/1239668-walk-in-clinic-attendance/
Just 3% of cases of Covid-19 are in people aged 65 and older, according to the Deputy Chief Medical Officer.
HSE figures on vaccine uptake showed there was a 99% vaccine uptake rate among those over 70 years of age.
The uptake rate for people aged from 60 to 69 stood at 96% as of Thursday.

This indicates pretty strongly that the vaccinated are far less likely to catch Covid than the unvaccinated.

But the lads you follow on facebook are unlikely to agree!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on August 09, 2021, 04:17:36 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 09, 2021, 03:55:57 PM
I've read a few articles lately that seem to confirm a double vaccinated person carries the same viral / transmissible load as an unvaccinated person, bar protecting yourself, unless you're still wearing face masks & social distancing everyone's a potential liability.

Have you any links to any of those articles Benny?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 09, 2021, 04:20:52 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 09, 2021, 03:55:57 PM
I've read a few articles lately that seem to confirm a double vaccinated person carries the same viral / transmissible load as an unvaccinated person, bar protecting yourself, unless you're still wearing face masks & social distancing everyone's a potential liability.

There is a some evidence of this, but also evidence that vaccinated people clear this more quickly and so at least they are infectious for less time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on August 09, 2021, 05:20:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 09, 2021, 04:15:57 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 09, 2021, 03:55:57 PM
I've read a few articles lately that seem to confirm a double vaccinated person carries the same viral / transmissible load as an unvaccinated person, bar protecting yourself, unless you're still wearing face masks & social distancing everyone's a potential liability.
Where are these articles benny?

There's lot of real data showing that the risk of catching Covid is vastly reduced among the vaccinated.

Here's on RTE today:
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0808/1239668-walk-in-clinic-attendance/
Just 3% of cases of Covid-19 are in people aged 65 and older, according to the Deputy Chief Medical Officer.
HSE figures on vaccine uptake showed there was a 99% vaccine uptake rate among those over 70 years of age.
The uptake rate for people aged from 60 to 69 stood at 96% as of Thursday.

This indicates pretty strongly that the vaccinated are far less likely to catch Covid than the unvaccinated.

But the lads you follow on facebook are unlikely to agree!

Yesterday's UK Sunday Times. See the Telegraph has a similar article.

The jist of it covered in https://hospitalhealthcare.com/covid-19/covid-delta-variant-viral-load-similar-in-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated/

The lads I follow on Facebook?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on August 09, 2021, 05:52:03 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 09, 2021, 05:20:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 09, 2021, 04:15:57 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 09, 2021, 03:55:57 PM
I've read a few articles lately that seem to confirm a double vaccinated person carries the same viral / transmissible load as an unvaccinated person, bar protecting yourself, unless you're still wearing face masks & social distancing everyone's a potential liability.
Where are these articles benny?

There's lot of real data showing that the risk of catching Covid is vastly reduced among the vaccinated.

Here's on RTE today:
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0808/1239668-walk-in-clinic-attendance/
Just 3% of cases of Covid-19 are in people aged 65 and older, according to the Deputy Chief Medical Officer.
HSE figures on vaccine uptake showed there was a 99% vaccine uptake rate among those over 70 years of age.
The uptake rate for people aged from 60 to 69 stood at 96% as of Thursday.

This indicates pretty strongly that the vaccinated are far less likely to catch Covid than the unvaccinated.

But the lads you follow on facebook are unlikely to agree!

Yesterday's UK Sunday Times. See the Telegraph has a similar article.

The jist of it covered in https://hospitalhealthcare.com/covid-19/covid-delta-variant-viral-load-similar-in-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated/

The lads I follow on Facebook? w**ker.
Calm down on the abusive language chap.

Good article. Good news that vaccinated are much less likely to catch Covid, but not so good that if they do catch Delta, the viral load suggests it can be easily passed on. Of course vaccinated are still far less likely to pass on Covid, given they are far less likely to catch it. Summary as follows:

- There is now clear evidence that vaccination against COVID-19 reduces symptom burden and duration of any associated illness.
- An analysis by Public Health England, has shown that two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, reduces the incidence of hospitalisation in those infected with the delta variant.
- In the US, the CDC said a body of evidence now suggests that fully vaccinated individuals were less likely to either acquire COVID-19 or transmit the virus onto others.
- Israel reported that effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines has reduced to 64% with regard to preventing infection and symptomatic illness, coinciding with the spread of the COVID delta variant in the country.
- A CDC study shows viral loads similar among vaccinated and unvaccinated. Thus infection with the COVID delta variant, even among fully vaccinated individuals, could still lead to appreciable transmission of the virus. As a result of these findings, the CDC has now suggested that prevention strategies such as mask wearing should continue indoors, irrespective of vaccination status.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 09, 2021, 06:03:35 PM
In NI it is notable that the number of cases is now much the same everywhere, at a council level the gap between best and worst is now narrower than at most times, although you can see more differences in the postcodes.

(https://i.postimg.cc/HsLzx7DD/Covid-council-NI-09-Aug21.png)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on August 09, 2021, 06:13:43 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 09, 2021, 05:52:03 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 09, 2021, 05:20:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 09, 2021, 04:15:57 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 09, 2021, 03:55:57 PM
I've read a few articles lately that seem to confirm a double vaccinated person carries the same viral / transmissible load as an unvaccinated person, bar protecting yourself, unless you're still wearing face masks & social distancing everyone's a potential liability.
Where are these articles benny?

There's lot of real data showing that the risk of catching Covid is vastly reduced among the vaccinated.

Here's on RTE today:
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0808/1239668-walk-in-clinic-attendance/
Just 3% of cases of Covid-19 are in people aged 65 and older, according to the Deputy Chief Medical Officer.
HSE figures on vaccine uptake showed there was a 99% vaccine uptake rate among those over 70 years of age.
The uptake rate for people aged from 60 to 69 stood at 96% as of Thursday.

This indicates pretty strongly that the vaccinated are far less likely to catch Covid than the unvaccinated.

But the lads you follow on facebook are unlikely to agree!

Yesterday's UK Sunday Times. See the Telegraph has a similar article.

The jist of it covered in https://hospitalhealthcare.com/covid-19/covid-delta-variant-viral-load-similar-in-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated/

The lads I follow on Facebook? w**ker.
Calm down on the abusive language chap.

Good article. Good news that vaccinated are much less likely to catch Covid, but not so good that if they do catch Delta, the viral load suggests it can be easily passed on. Of course vaccinated are still far less likely to pass on Covid, given they are far less likely to catch it. Summary as follows:

- There is now clear evidence that vaccination against COVID-19 reduces symptom burden and duration of any associated illness.
- An analysis by Public Health England, has shown that two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine, reduces the incidence of hospitalisation in those infected with the delta variant.
- In the US, the CDC said a body of evidence now suggests that fully vaccinated individuals were less likely to either acquire COVID-19 or transmit the virus onto others.
- Israel reported that effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines has reduced to 64% with regard to preventing infection and symptomatic illness, coinciding with the spread of the COVID delta variant in the country.
- A CDC study shows viral loads similar among vaccinated and unvaccinated. Thus infection with the COVID delta variant, even among fully vaccinated individuals, could still lead to appreciable transmission of the virus. As a result of these findings, the CDC has now suggested that prevention strategies such as mask wearing should continue indoors, irrespective of vaccination status.

So, you're reaffirming the point I made.

I am not an anti-Vax, I was highly insulted that you inferred it, I removed the abusive word before you replied having thought better of it, apologies. I fail to see why my post raised a red flag? Sensible people cannot be afraid of changing facts - even if they don't like them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2021, 10:02:40 PM
So just go for herd immunity and see what's left afterwards
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on August 10, 2021, 02:25:02 AM
The state of this. Hundreds of them, apparently, and not one with the gumption to fire up google maps before joining the charge.

These are the shitehawks polluting your social media feed with anti-vax tripe, and they are absolute simpletons.

Anti-vaccine protesters storm BBC HQ – years after it moved out (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/09/confused-anti-vaccine-protesters-storm-bbc-hq-years-after-moved-out?)

Confused anti-vaccine protesters stormed what they thought was a major BBC building on Monday, apparently unaware the corporation largely moved out almost a decade ago.

Rather than target the BBC's news operation, which they hold responsible for promoting Covid-19 vaccines, a handful of protesters gained access to Television Centre in west London, which is now predominantly rented by ITV to film its daytime shows such as Good Morning Britain and This Morning.

The circular building was vacated by the BBC in 2013 and has since been converted into flats and a private members' club.

The BBC retained three studios on the site under its commercial for-profit Studioworks arm, which are largely rented to other broadcasters and provide the permanent base for many of ITV's shows. However, the vast majority of London-based BBC staff and its news operation are based five miles away at the corporation's Broadcasting House on Portland Place.

The Loose Women co-host Charlene White thanked the security team who kept protesters out of the studio while her ITV programme was on air on Monday afternoon.

"Not sure what protesters were hoping to achieve, but all they would've found was me, Jane, Nadia and Penny on Loose Women talking about the menopause," she said.

Many of the protesters outside the building appeared to be operating under the belief they were targeting a major BBC building connected to its news coverage, with live streams and promotional material for the event mentioning the building's BBC links.

Among the individuals outside was Piers Corbyn, the brother of the former Labour party leader, who was recorded on one live stream as saying "we've got to take over these bastards", while other individuals on the protest described the media as "the virus" and criticised the BBC's coverage of the coronavirus pandemic.

Hundreds of people outside the studio building chanted "shame on you", with small scuffles breaking out with Metropolitan police officers guarding the entrance to the studios, although other protesters stepped in to separate the two sides.

Police reinforcements and a helicopter were later deployed to the scene, while a smaller group of demonstrators did later march to Broadcasting House in central London.

The BBC has had to deal with an increasing number of verbal and physical attacks on its journalists by anti-lockdown protesters, with Newsnight's political editor, Nick Watt, targeted outside Downing Street earlier this year.

The BBC's director of news, Fran Unsworth, has warned that abuse of her journalists is a growing problem and has urged staff to train on how to deal with an in-person attack.

The BBC said it did not comment on security matters. A Met spokesperson said no arrests had been made.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on August 10, 2021, 09:41:44 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2021, 10:02:40 PM
So just go for herd immunity and see what's left afterwards
Most of Europe is fast approaching that situation, between High vaccination rates and high infection rates it won't be long before it's achieved. The Tories in England went a bit Brexity gung ho with it, but it is the end game.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on August 10, 2021, 12:11:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 09, 2021, 06:03:35 PM
In NI it is notable that the number of cases is now much the same everywhere, at a council level the gap between best and worst is now narrower than at most times, although you can see more differences in the postcodes.

(https://i.postimg.cc/HsLzx7DD/Covid-council-NI-09-Aug21.png)

Where TF is the peninsula?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 10, 2021, 01:14:53 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 10, 2021, 12:11:34 PM
Where TF is the peninsula?

Both Strangford Lough and Lough Neagh have been filled in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on August 10, 2021, 01:26:54 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 10, 2021, 01:14:53 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 10, 2021, 12:11:34 PM
Where TF is the peninsula?

Both Strangford Lough and Lough Neagh have been filled in.

Lough Neagh is understandable as it's well known that the midgies cause madness in humans. Filling it in is an attempt to sanitise that area.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on August 10, 2021, 08:32:00 PM
Head of the Oxford vaccine group says the fact that you can still catch COVID after vaccination (albeit not as severe) makes herd immunity 'mythical'.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 10, 2021, 09:24:27 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on August 10, 2021, 08:32:00 PM
Head of the Oxford vaccine group says the fact that you can still catch COVID after vaccination (albeit not as severe) makes herd immunity 'mythical'.

If you can catch it after vaccination than you can also catch it after infection. So the question is how often can you get it? And if you can get it again then what is the proper course of action? Perhaps the thing to do is to beat it down to a low level and then stop it increasing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2021, 09:54:33 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 10, 2021, 09:24:27 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on August 10, 2021, 08:32:00 PM
Head of the Oxford vaccine group says the fact that you can still catch COVID after vaccination (albeit not as severe) makes herd immunity 'mythical'.

If you can catch it after vaccination than you can also catch it after infection. So the question is how often can you get it? And if you can get it again then what is the proper course of action? Perhaps the thing to do is to beat it down to a low level and then stop it increasing.

How long will that take?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2021, 10:13:44 PM
Unless the booster jab can be delta proof then it's going to be a shit period!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 10, 2021, 11:09:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2021, 10:13:44 PM
Unless the booster jab can be delta proof then it's going to be a shit period!

It is all a question of numbers. If a vaccine is 75% effective at stopping infection, you have still have problems. If a further booster makes it 85 or 90% effective then you might get out of it. Perhaps a couple of infections or an infection after a jab will bring you to 90%.  It is a bit disappointing that we have ended up with such an infectious version.

There is some suggestion now that Moderna does better than Pfizer against Delta. Only about 10% in the 26 counties git Moderna and even less in n the 6 counties
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on August 12, 2021, 01:33:03 PM
What the future of the pandemic should look like for you, from testing to quarantine

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/future-covid-pandemic-look-you-testing-quarantine-1146092?s=09

Good article in today's I paper. UK (GB) slant but this island is on the same path I suppose.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: viperhiggins on August 13, 2021, 03:54:44 PM
If you still wear a mask everywhere some would say you are a sucker and can't make your own decisions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on August 13, 2021, 05:47:55 PM
Well I wouldn't wear it in the shower
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 14, 2021, 02:05:36 AM
Me either.  I switch to the snorkel for that. 


Though obviously I wait until I'm inside the sterile ante-chamber prior to switching.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gallsman on August 14, 2021, 07:13:43 AM
Quote from: viperhiggins on August 13, 2021, 03:54:44 PM
If you still wear a mask everywhere some would say you are a sucker and can't make your own decisions.

Twats would say that. Complete twats.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 15, 2021, 06:24:22 PM
ROI weekly update. We still seem to a while off the peak and then declining numbers.

12,562 cases  (1943 more than last Sunday)
248 in hospital (40 more than a week ago)
48 in ICU (increase of 17 on last Sunday)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 15, 2021, 06:33:42 PM
Quote from: viperhiggins on August 13, 2021, 03:54:44 PM
If you still wear a mask everywhere some would say you are a sucker and can't make your own decisions.

Whereas others would say those that refuse to wear a mask against recommendations are reactionary fools who can't think for themselves and ascribe more authority and credibility to contrarian cranks and Facebook friends than to professionals who dedicate their lives to the study and the practice of medicine and public health.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 15, 2021, 07:12:45 PM
Forgetting the science of masks etc quite a number of people are scared by the whole thing. (You could go into the whys and wherefores of this but that's not the point). If someone is scared and believes in wearing masks then it is no more than common courtesy to wear one, in close proximity indoors, around them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 15, 2021, 07:47:25 PM
Masks have long been associated with medical environment s where those trained in medicine thought they reduced infection.It isn't too big a step to think that they might help reduce infection in other situations
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 15, 2021, 08:06:06 PM
Were masks not more commonplace in some Asian countries before this anyway?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on August 15, 2021, 08:39:10 PM
I'm in France at the minute, and the town we're in has mandated that masks are worn outside in areas of dense footfall (e.g. pedestrian streets).
It was 30 degrees today, and the police were still patrolling to ensure compliance.
Social distancing seems to have been forgotten mind you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebuzz on August 15, 2021, 08:48:04 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 15, 2021, 08:06:06 PM
Were masks not more commonplace in some Asian countries before this anyway?

I think a lot of it was for air pollution and smog before this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on August 15, 2021, 08:54:29 PM
Masks are also a great cure for hayfever. Wear them outside at all times and don't get any symptoms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 15, 2021, 09:00:03 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on August 15, 2021, 08:54:29 PM
Masks are also a great cure for hayfever. Wear them outside at all times and don't get any symptoms.

They are great for ugly people
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on August 16, 2021, 08:56:52 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on August 15, 2021, 06:24:22 PM
ROI weekly update. We still seem to a while off the peak and then declining numbers.

12,562 cases  (1943 more than last Sunday)
248 in hospital (40 more than a week ago)
48 in ICU (increase of 17 on last Sunday)
The hospital and ICU numbers certainly not good, given we were down below 80 for hospital, and I think close to 10 in ICU.

Not far away from schools, universities, etc reopening, and more people expected to return to workplaces in September. So the battle of more reopening VS more vaccinations will continue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 19, 2021, 10:56:34 PM
Paul Reid saying there's an exponential growth of the virus on the way. Ffs, we're hitting 90% of adults fully vaccinated. Other say that vaxed and unvaxed have similar infection rates. I don't know what to believe anymore. It's NOT disappearing any time soon unfortunately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 19, 2021, 11:22:56 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 19, 2021, 10:56:34 PM
Paul Reid saying there's an exponential growth of the virus on the way. Ffs, we're hitting 90% of adults fully vaccinated. Other say that vaxed and unvaxed have similar infection rates. I don't know what to believe anymore. It's NOT disappearing any time soon unfortunately.

What's the rates with vaccinated and hospitalised and unvaccinated and hospitalised?

We need to use what we can to live with this, it's not going away, it'll become normalised as long as we can fight it medically like we do with other virus.

We can't fight it if it's changing/mutating
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 19, 2021, 11:42:21 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 19, 2021, 10:56:34 PM
Paul Reid saying there's an exponential growth of the virus on the way. Ffs, we're hitting 90% of adults fully vaccinated. Other say that vaxed and unvaxed have similar infection rates. I don't know what to believe anymore. It's NOT disappearing any time soon unfortunately.

It isn't that complicated, vaccinated and unvaccinated do not have the same infection rate, vaccination does help but does not reduce infection to zero. The anti vax  crowd have been spreading the idea that if the vaccination does not absolutely prevent infection then it must be same as not being vaccinated. This is bollix, seat belts, airbags or motorcycle helmets do not prevent you being injured in an accident, but things would be much worse without them.

Delta is more infectious, the vaccines would have stopped the original one, but they have hugely slowed Delta down. However, it does not follow that there will be another mutation doubling infectivity again, basically the virus had several 100 million tosses of the mutation coin and it came up with a pretty good variant, there is probably not that much more it can do. Cases have been growing each week, schools are going to make it worse and colleges will make it worse again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BenDover on August 20, 2021, 12:34:04 AM
Family wedding at the weekend and my whole house is down with Covid. OH and I are vaccinated. My symptoms are flu like with a cough, eldest boy the same. Youngest kids showing no symptoms. Isolation now for 10 days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 20, 2021, 07:27:47 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 19, 2021, 11:22:56 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 19, 2021, 10:56:34 PM
Paul Reid saying there's an exponential growth of the virus on the way. Ffs, we're hitting 90% of adults fully vaccinated. Other say that vaxed and unvaxed have similar infection rates. I don't know what to believe anymore. It's NOT disappearing any time soon unfortunately.

What's the rates with vaccinated and hospitalised and unvaccinated and hospitalised?

We need to use what we can to live with this, it's not going away, it'll become normalised as long as we can fight it medically like we do with other virus.

We can't fight it if it's changing/mutating

89% unvaccinated I read in north.

The vaccine is very clearly not the silver bullet here but definitely is doing something. Numbers are growing significantly in the north but hospital admissions are down. Has to be some in it. Still positive test cases are getting huge which is worrying.

Hope you and the family are all ok Ben and nothing comes from it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on August 20, 2021, 08:44:04 AM
Quote from: BenDover on August 20, 2021, 12:34:04 AM
Family wedding at the weekend and my whole house is down with Covid. OH and I are vaccinated. My symptoms are flu like with a cough, eldest boy the same. Youngest kids showing no symptoms. Isolation now for 10 days.
We have a family wedding next weekend where the missus is a bridesmaid and everyone is keeping a low profile so we don't miss it. There numbers locally seem to be pretty big and can only assume will get worse when the schools are back.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 20, 2021, 09:04:48 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 20, 2021, 08:44:04 AM
Quote from: BenDover on August 20, 2021, 12:34:04 AM
Family wedding at the weekend and my whole house is down with Covid. OH and I are vaccinated. My symptoms are flu like with a cough, eldest boy the same. Youngest kids showing no symptoms. Isolation now for 10 days.
We have a family wedding next weekend where the missus is a bridesmaid and everyone is keeping a low profile so we don't miss it. There numbers locally seem to be pretty big and can only assume will get worse when the schools are back.
Do people think there will be another 'period of restrictions'?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on August 20, 2021, 09:26:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 19, 2021, 11:22:56 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 19, 2021, 10:56:34 PM
Paul Reid saying there's an exponential growth of the virus on the way. Ffs, we're hitting 90% of adults fully vaccinated. Other say that vaxed and unvaxed have similar infection rates. I don't know what to believe anymore. It's NOT disappearing any time soon unfortunately.

What's the rates with vaccinated and hospitalised and unvaccinated and hospitalised?

We need to use what we can to live with this, it's not going away, it'll become normalised as long as we can fight it medically like we do with other virus.

We can't fight it if it's changing/mutating

Stateside, couple of quotes from The Atlantic article posted in the Holidays thread:

96.7 percent of deaths this summer have been in the unvaccinated. Hospitalization data look similar, with few fully vaccinated people requiring hospitalization.

Although the proportion of breakthrough patients varied by an order of magnitude from as low as .2 percent of total hospitalizations in Texas to 4.7 percent in Arkansas, in every state more than 95 percent of hospitalized people were unvaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on August 20, 2021, 09:32:30 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 20, 2021, 09:04:48 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 20, 2021, 08:44:04 AM
Quote from: BenDover on August 20, 2021, 12:34:04 AM
Family wedding at the weekend and my whole house is down with Covid. OH and I are vaccinated. My symptoms are flu like with a cough, eldest boy the same. Youngest kids showing no symptoms. Isolation now for 10 days.
We have a family wedding next weekend where the missus is a bridesmaid and everyone is keeping a low profile so we don't miss it. There numbers locally seem to be pretty big and can only assume will get worse when the schools are back.
Do people think there will be another 'period of restrictions'?
No chance. Don't see how it can be justified either. Vaccination numbers are probably close to as high as they're gonna get for adults and children won't be long getting done too. Keep decent hand washing and hygiene etiquette and wear masks on public transport etc and get on with it at this stage, plus most likely boosters for the vulnerable, hopefully given along with their usual flu jab. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 20, 2021, 09:35:55 AM
In the north I don't see how there can be. England aren't doing them any more so parliament will never approve a budget for here to go off on their own and do furlough. There's no money for it any more.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on August 20, 2021, 10:06:27 AM
Quote from: BenDover on August 20, 2021, 12:34:04 AM
Family wedding at the weekend and my whole house is down with Covid. OH and I are vaccinated. My symptoms are flu like with a cough, eldest boy the same. Youngest kids showing no symptoms. Isolation now for 10 days.

Was the wedding last weekend?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on August 20, 2021, 10:23:45 AM
Quote from: clarshack on August 20, 2021, 10:06:27 AM
Quote from: BenDover on August 20, 2021, 12:34:04 AM
Family wedding at the weekend and my whole house is down with Covid. OH and I are vaccinated. My symptoms are flu like with a cough, eldest boy the same. Youngest kids showing no symptoms. Isolation now for 10 days.

Was the wedding last weekend?
Was the reception in Armagh?  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 20, 2021, 10:25:55 AM
Quote from: BenDover on August 20, 2021, 12:34:04 AM
Family wedding at the weekend and my whole house is down with Covid. OH and I are vaccinated. My symptoms are flu like with a cough, eldest boy the same. Youngest kids showing no symptoms. Isolation now for 10 days.

Yeah, same situation here , friends wedding, widespread covid cases and 1 death, mostly double jabbed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on August 20, 2021, 11:17:18 AM
Look after yourselves Fear and Ben. Order a pulse oximeter from amazon, they're about £25. Will show you your blood oxygen levels which is an early sign if anyone is going downhill and needs hospital treatment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on August 20, 2021, 12:21:17 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 20, 2021, 09:35:55 AM
In the north I don't see how there can be. England aren't doing them any more so parliament will never approve a budget for here to go off on their own and do furlough. There's no money for it any more.
Absolutely. Magic money tree has run out time to get back to reality.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: APM on August 20, 2021, 12:37:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 20, 2021, 10:25:55 AM
Quote from: BenDover on August 20, 2021, 12:34:04 AM
Family wedding at the weekend and my whole house is down with Covid. OH and I are vaccinated. My symptoms are flu like with a cough, eldest boy the same. Youngest kids showing no symptoms. Isolation now for 10 days.

Yeah, same situation here , friends wedding, widespread covid cases and 1 death, mostly double jabbed

That's terrible. I know if it was my wedding, I would be devastated if someone caught covid and died. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 20, 2021, 02:35:02 PM
Quote from: APM on August 20, 2021, 12:37:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 20, 2021, 10:25:55 AM
Quote from: BenDover on August 20, 2021, 12:34:04 AM
Family wedding at the weekend and my whole house is down with Covid. OH and I are vaccinated. My symptoms are flu like with a cough, eldest boy the same. Youngest kids showing no symptoms. Isolation now for 10 days.

Yeah, same situation here , friends wedding, widespread covid cases and 1 death, mostly double jabbed

That's terrible. I know if it was my wedding, I would be devastated if someone caught covid and died.

Give out antigen tests at the church and tell anyone positive to not go to the reception?

2,397 new cases of Covid-19 were reported in Northern Ireland today, there is a huge amount of Covid out there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on August 20, 2021, 02:38:42 PM
I heard about the wedding, I though they were exaggerating when the said that out of the 299 guests 200 or so have tested positive and one person had died.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 20, 2021, 02:58:12 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 20, 2021, 02:35:02 PM
Quote from: APM on August 20, 2021, 12:37:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 20, 2021, 10:25:55 AM
Quote from: BenDover on August 20, 2021, 12:34:04 AM
Family wedding at the weekend and my whole house is down with Covid. OH and I are vaccinated. My symptoms are flu like with a cough, eldest boy the same. Youngest kids showing no symptoms. Isolation now for 10 days.

Yeah, same situation here , friends wedding, widespread covid cases and 1 death, mostly double jabbed

That's terrible. I know if it was my wedding, I would be devastated if someone caught covid and died.

Give out antigen tests at the church and tell anyone positive to not go to the reception?

2,397 new cases of Covid-19 were reported in Northern Ireland today, there is a huge amount of Covid out there.

That isn't good  :o

Admissions and inpatients are actually down interestingly.

Also there is a huge amount of testing going on now with 6k+ a day. This time last year it seemed to generally be 2.5k a day or so. Whether that's "supply and demand" I don't know but I thought they were ramping down testing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cavan19 on August 20, 2021, 03:02:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 20, 2021, 02:35:02 PM
Quote from: APM on August 20, 2021, 12:37:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 20, 2021, 10:25:55 AM
Quote from: BenDover on August 20, 2021, 12:34:04 AM
Family wedding at the weekend and my whole house is down with Covid. OH and I are vaccinated. My symptoms are flu like with a cough, eldest boy the same. Youngest kids showing no symptoms. Isolation now for 10 days.

Yeah, same situation here , friends wedding, widespread covid cases and 1 death, mostly double jabbed

That's terrible. I know if it was my wedding, I would be devastated if someone caught covid and died.

Give out antigen tests at the church and tell anyone positive to not go to the reception?


Does it not spread in the church?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Truth hurts on August 20, 2021, 03:26:22 PM
Weddings have big spreaders in the Castlewellan area, the executive needs to curtail these numbers. Its getting out of control. Also why the f**k are people having 2nd-day wedding parties with djs and the likes. f**king wise up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tiempo on August 20, 2021, 03:32:19 PM
Quote from: Truth hurts on August 20, 2021, 03:26:22 PM
Weddings have big spreaders in the Castlewellan area, the executive needs to curtail these numbers. Its getting out of control. Also why the f**k are people having 2nd-day wedding parties with djs and the likes. f**king wise up

Kind what i was thinking re Ulster Final in Croke
Pulling tens of thousands of extra people to Dublin unnecessarily
Game should have been in Ulster with the relevant attendance in place, but it seems an extra £300,000 to the coffers took precedent
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on August 20, 2021, 03:42:19 PM
Evidence that vaccinated people still transmit Covid-19 makes rollout of jabs to UK children less likely

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/evidence-vaccinated-still-transmit-covid-19-rollout-jabs-uk-children-less-likely-1159487
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 20, 2021, 04:25:21 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 20, 2021, 03:42:19 PM
Evidence that vaccinated people still transmit Covid-19 makes rollout of jabs to UK children less likely

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/evidence-vaccinated-still-transmit-covid-19-rollout-jabs-uk-children-less-likely-1159487

That will be fine and dandy until the children are not allowed travel on holiday because they are not vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BenDover on August 20, 2021, 05:34:20 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 20, 2021, 10:23:45 AM
Quote from: clarshack on August 20, 2021, 10:06:27 AM
Quote from: BenDover on August 20, 2021, 12:34:04 AM
Family wedding at the weekend and my whole house is down with Covid. OH and I are vaccinated. My symptoms are flu like with a cough, eldest boy the same. Youngest kids showing no symptoms. Isolation now for 10 days.

Was the wedding last weekend?
Was the reception in Armagh?  ;)

It was. Reports of a lot of guests now infected. Different wedding to the one linked to the death.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on August 20, 2021, 06:00:03 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 20, 2021, 03:42:19 PM
Evidence that vaccinated people still transmit Covid-19 makes rollout of jabs to UK children less likely

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/evidence-vaccinated-still-transmit-covid-19-rollout-jabs-uk-children-less-likely-1159487
Vaccinating children with this would be dodgy to say the least
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 20, 2021, 06:10:02 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on August 20, 2021, 06:00:03 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 20, 2021, 03:42:19 PM
Evidence that vaccinated people still transmit Covid-19 makes rollout of jabs to UK children less likely

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/evidence-vaccinated-still-transmit-covid-19-rollout-jabs-uk-children-less-likely-1159487
Vaccinating children with this would be dodgy to say the least

The issue of vaccination of children is the balance between the effects of the vaccine and of the real Covid. I'm not sure how a vaccine could actually be worse than the real thing, and logically there should exist a vaccine that is not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on August 20, 2021, 06:46:56 PM
Quote from: BenDover on August 20, 2021, 05:34:20 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 20, 2021, 10:23:45 AM
Quote from: clarshack on August 20, 2021, 10:06:27 AM
Quote from: BenDover on August 20, 2021, 12:34:04 AM
Family wedding at the weekend and my whole house is down with Covid. OH and I are vaccinated. My symptoms are flu like with a cough, eldest boy the same. Youngest kids showing no symptoms. Isolation now for 10 days.

Was the wedding last weekend?
Was the reception in Armagh?  ;)

It was. Reports of a lot of guests now infected. Different wedding to the one linked to the death.
Aye it seems to be famous round the town if its the same one! The reception I'm at next week is in the south so could be a more sensible affair, although lots of people panicking about a residents bar  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 20, 2021, 07:21:16 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 20, 2021, 02:35:02 PM
Quote from: APM on August 20, 2021, 12:37:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 20, 2021, 10:25:55 AM
Quote from: BenDover on August 20, 2021, 12:34:04 AM
Family wedding at the weekend and my whole house is down with Covid. OH and I are vaccinated. My symptoms are flu like with a cough, eldest boy the same. Youngest kids showing no symptoms. Isolation now for 10 days.

Yeah, same situation here , friends wedding, widespread covid cases and 1 death, mostly double jabbed

That's terrible. I know if it was my wedding, I would be devastated if someone caught covid and died.

Give out antigen tests at the church and tell anyone positive to not go to the reception?

2,397 new cases of Covid-19 were reported in Northern Ireland today, there is a huge amount of Covid out there.

And 2,098 in the south. This delta variant is fierce contagious.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 20, 2021, 11:18:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 20, 2021, 11:17:18 AM
Look after yourselves Fear and Ben. Order a pulse oximeter from amazon, they're about £25. Will show you your blood oxygen levels which is an early sign if anyone is going downhill and needs hospital treatment.

Thanks , thankfully I didn't attend , but it's bad fallout , father of the bride.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on August 21, 2021, 12:51:11 PM
BBC News: Is catching Covid now better than more vaccine?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58270098
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 21, 2021, 01:38:30 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 21, 2021, 12:51:11 PM
BBC News: Is catching Covid now better than more vaccine?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58270098
AS i said above, it should be possible to design a vaccine that is as good as the real thing, If mRNA vaccines have some shortfalls then an inactivated virus vaccine or something else would do the trick.

But the problem here is that we are not dealing with averages but with what happens when things go wrong. That may concern a relatively small proportion in each case but the consequences could be serious.

The most convincing argument at present is to give the vaccines to people in other parts of the world who will clearly benefit and continue to conduct research on the best vaccine for children. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 21, 2021, 05:25:47 PM
There were 45 cases of 'Delta plus' variant yesterday.

2,125 extra cases today...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 21, 2021, 05:32:42 PM
Yeah it sounds like a new variant is coming. Great.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 21, 2021, 05:37:07 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 21, 2021, 05:32:42 PM
Yeah it sounds like a new variant is coming. Great.

That's it, I'm buying a camper van!!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 21, 2021, 05:43:14 PM
It's the thing to do these days!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 21, 2021, 09:11:38 PM
What's the story with that poor lad in Waterford?

Looks to have taken ill and died after taking the J&J jab?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on August 21, 2021, 09:31:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 21, 2021, 09:11:38 PM
What's the story with that poor lad in Waterford?

Looks to have taken ill and died after taking the J&J jab?

RIP to him. What's far more concerning is the complete muzzle on the media, anything that deviates from the narrative is not to be reported & any adverse comment censored. We think we live in the free world. Hospital admissions for strokes, blood clots are through the roof in local hospitals, no co-relation with the vaccine at all. Now we not only have the Delta variant but Delta plus, looks like a right mess, hopefully the solution doesnt end up causing more problems in the short & medium terms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on August 21, 2021, 09:59:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 21, 2021, 09:31:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 21, 2021, 09:11:38 PM
What's the story with that poor lad in Waterford?

Looks to have taken ill and died after taking the J&J jab?

RIP to him. What's far more concerning is the complete muzzle on the media, anything that deviates from the narrative is not to be reported & any adverse comment censored. We think we live in the free world. Hospital admissions for strokes, blood clots are through the roof in local hospitals, no co-relation with the vaccine at all. Now we not only have the Delta variant but Delta plus, looks like a right mess, hopefully the solution doesnt end up causing more problems in the short & medium terms.

Evidence please
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on August 21, 2021, 10:07:12 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on August 21, 2021, 09:59:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 21, 2021, 09:31:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 21, 2021, 09:11:38 PM
What's the story with that poor lad in Waterford?

Looks to have taken ill and died after taking the J&J jab?

RIP to him. What's far more concerning is the complete muzzle on the media, anything that deviates from the narrative is not to be reported & any adverse comment censored. We think we live in the free world. Hospital admissions for strokes, blood clots are through the roof in local hospitals, no co-relation with the vaccine at all. Now we not only have the Delta variant but Delta plus, looks like a right mess, hopefully the solution doesnt end up causing more problems in the short & medium terms.

Evidence please

You know well that this official information is not in the public domain, it would stop 12 year olds getting the vaccine. If interested I would suggest you speak with doctors / nurses / registrars that work in this area.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on August 21, 2021, 10:56:08 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 21, 2021, 10:07:12 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on August 21, 2021, 09:59:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 21, 2021, 09:31:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 21, 2021, 09:11:38 PM
What's the story with that poor lad in Waterford?

Looks to have taken ill and died after taking the J&J jab?

RIP to him. What's far more concerning is the complete muzzle on the media, anything that deviates from the narrative is not to be reported & any adverse comment censored. We think we live in the free world. Hospital admissions for strokes, blood clots are through the roof in local hospitals, no co-relation with the vaccine at all. Now we not only have the Delta variant but Delta plus, looks like a right mess, hopefully the solution doesnt end up causing more problems in the short & medium terms.

Evidence please

You know well that this official information is not in the public domain, it would stop 12 year olds getting the vaccine. If interested I would suggest you speak with doctors / nurses / registrars that work in this area.

I work in the health sector, primary and secondary care, this is news to me. Where did you get your info from?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 21, 2021, 11:00:00 PM
Why the media block on this story? What are the powers that be afraid of?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on August 21, 2021, 11:18:27 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 21, 2021, 10:07:12 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on August 21, 2021, 09:59:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 21, 2021, 09:31:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 21, 2021, 09:11:38 PM
What's the story with that poor lad in Waterford?

Looks to have taken ill and died after taking the J&J jab?

RIP to him. What's far more concerning is the complete muzzle on the media, anything that deviates from the narrative is not to be reported & any adverse comment censored. We think we live in the free world. Hospital admissions for strokes, blood clots are through the roof in local hospitals, no co-relation with the vaccine at all. Now we not only have the Delta variant but Delta plus, looks like a right mess, hopefully the solution doesnt end up causing more problems in the short & medium terms.

Evidence please

You know well that this official information is not in the public domain, it would stop 12 year olds getting the vaccine. If interested I would suggest you speak with doctors / nurses / registrars that work in this area.

Convenient that 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 22, 2021, 12:15:50 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 21, 2021, 09:11:38 PM
What's the story with that poor lad in Waterford?

Looks to have taken ill and died after taking the J&J jab?

230,000 people took the J&J jab. If 230,000 people bought the Sunday World then there is a fair chance some of these will become ill in the next few weeks. More information is needed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 22, 2021, 12:46:49 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 22, 2021, 12:15:50 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 21, 2021, 09:11:38 PM
What's the story with that poor lad in Waterford?

Looks to have taken ill and died after taking the J&J jab?

230,000 people took the J&J jab. If 230,000 people bought the Sunday World then there is a fair chance some of these will become ill in the next few weeks. More information is needed.

HSE Chief Executive Paul Reid does not seen to share your enthusiasm.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0815/1240941-covid-ireland/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0815/1240941-covid-ireland/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 22, 2021, 01:31:10 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 22, 2021, 12:46:49 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 22, 2021, 12:15:50 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 21, 2021, 09:11:38 PM
What's the story with that poor lad in Waterford?

Looks to have taken ill and died after taking the J&J jab?

230,000 people took the J&J jab. If 230,000 people bought the Sunday World then there is a fair chance some of these will become ill in the next few weeks. More information is needed.

HSE Chief Executive Paul Reid does not seen to share your enthusiasm.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0815/1240941-covid-ireland/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0815/1240941-covid-ireland/)

I don't have any enthusiasm on this matter  Reid mentioned the greater reliability of Pfizer supplies, he did not say that J&J would kill you
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on August 22, 2021, 09:25:29 AM
Quote from: Rudi on August 21, 2021, 10:07:12 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on August 21, 2021, 09:59:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 21, 2021, 09:31:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 21, 2021, 09:11:38 PM
What's the story with that poor lad in Waterford?

Looks to have taken ill and died after taking the J&J jab?

RIP to him. What's far more concerning is the complete muzzle on the media, anything that deviates from the narrative is not to be reported & any adverse comment censored. We think we live in the free world. Hospital admissions for strokes, blood clots are through the roof in local hospitals, no co-relation with the vaccine at all. Now we not only have the Delta variant but Delta plus, looks like a right mess, hopefully the solution doesnt end up causing more problems in the short & medium terms.

Evidence please

You know well that this official information is not in the public domain, it would stop 12 year olds getting the vaccine. If interested I would suggest you speak with doctors / nurses / registrars that work in this area.

So absolutely no evidence then.

I work in healthcare and this is news to me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on August 22, 2021, 10:49:31 AM
Nothing like a good oul right wing conspiracy theory....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on August 22, 2021, 12:07:15 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 22, 2021, 10:49:31 AM
Nothing like a good oul right wing conspiracy theory....

The left are not exactly covering themselves in glory these days, freedom of speech provided it's on their terms, Biden administration is making an utter balls of a horrendous humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan.
You an annoying wee shite Rosfan, unable to stand on your own feet, we will see who's right in the long term, when some of the truth finally comes out . By the way I'm not a Covid denier, I know how serious it is, just incase you try to mis represent my thoughts again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tonto1888 on August 22, 2021, 12:47:31 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 21, 2021, 10:07:12 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on August 21, 2021, 09:59:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 21, 2021, 09:31:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 21, 2021, 09:11:38 PM
What's the story with that poor lad in Waterford?

Looks to have taken ill and died after taking the J&J jab?

RIP to him. What's far more concerning is the complete muzzle on the media, anything that deviates from the narrative is not to be reported & any adverse comment censored. We think we live in the free world. Hospital admissions for strokes, blood clots are through the roof in local hospitals, no co-relation with the vaccine at all. Now we not only have the Delta variant but Delta plus, looks like a right mess, hopefully the solution doesnt end up causing more problems in the short & medium terms.

Evidence please

You know well that this official information is not in the public domain, it would stop 12 year olds getting the vaccine. If interested I would suggest you speak with doctors / nurses / registrars that work in this area.

My sister is a nurse. Ive a few friends who are nurses and doctors and I havent heard them mention this at all
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on August 22, 2021, 12:56:58 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 22, 2021, 12:47:31 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 21, 2021, 10:07:12 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on August 21, 2021, 09:59:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 21, 2021, 09:31:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 21, 2021, 09:11:38 PM
What's the story with that poor lad in Waterford?

Looks to have taken ill and died after taking the J&J jab?

RIP to him. What's far more concerning is the complete muzzle on the media, anything that deviates from the narrative is not to be reported & any adverse comment censored. We think we live in the free world. Hospital admissions for strokes, blood clots are through the roof in local hospitals, no co-relation with the vaccine at all. Now we not only have the Delta variant but Delta plus, looks like a right mess, hopefully the solution doesnt end up causing more problems in the short & medium terms.

Evidence please

You know well that this official information is not in the public domain, it would stop 12 year olds getting the vaccine. If interested I would suggest you speak with doctors / nurses / registrars that work in this area.

My sister is a nurse. Ive a few friends who are nurses and doctors and I havent heard them mention this at all

I'm in a similar position to yourself & I have that's my source
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on August 22, 2021, 02:19:57 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 22, 2021, 12:56:58 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 22, 2021, 12:47:31 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 21, 2021, 10:07:12 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on August 21, 2021, 09:59:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 21, 2021, 09:31:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 21, 2021, 09:11:38 PM
What's the story with that poor lad in Waterford?

Looks to have taken ill and died after taking the J&J jab?

RIP to him. What's far more concerning is the complete muzzle on the media, anything that deviates from the narrative is not to be reported & any adverse comment censored. We think we live in the free world. Hospital admissions for strokes, blood clots are through the roof in local hospitals, no co-relation with the vaccine at all. Now we not only have the Delta variant but Delta plus, looks like a right mess, hopefully the solution doesnt end up causing more problems in the short & medium terms.

Evidence please

You know well that this official information is not in the public domain, it would stop 12 year olds getting the vaccine. If interested I would suggest you speak with doctors / nurses / registrars that work in this area.

My sister is a nurse. Ive a few friends who are nurses and doctors and I havent heard them mention this at all

I'm in a similar position to yourself & I have that's my source

Which hospital/s?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 22, 2021, 04:32:28 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 22, 2021, 12:47:31 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 21, 2021, 10:07:12 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on August 21, 2021, 09:59:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 21, 2021, 09:31:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 21, 2021, 09:11:38 PM
What's the story with that poor lad in Waterford?

Looks to have taken ill and died after taking the J&J jab?

RIP to him. What's far more concerning is the complete muzzle on the media, anything that deviates from the narrative is not to be reported & any adverse comment censored. We think we live in the free world. Hospital admissions for strokes, blood clots are through the roof in local hospitals, no co-relation with the vaccine at all. Now we not only have the Delta variant but Delta plus, looks like a right mess, hopefully the solution doesnt end up causing more problems in the short & medium terms.

Evidence please

You know well that this official information is not in the public domain, it would stop 12 year olds getting the vaccine. If interested I would suggest you speak with doctors / nurses / registrars that work in this area.

My sister is a nurse. Ive a few friends who are nurses and doctors and I havent heard them mention this at all

I've a sibling who's an infectious diseases doctor at a major US hospital and I've heard nothing like that either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 22, 2021, 05:04:29 PM

ROI weekly update, plateauing in case numbers. Hospital figures continues to increase or be it not all admissions this week as we had few hospital outbreaks also.

12644 cases (82 more than last Sunday)
314 in hospital (66 more than a week ago)
59 in ICU (increase of 11 on last Sunday)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on August 22, 2021, 07:17:40 PM

Independent.ie
@Independent_ie
St Vincent's hospital in Dublin is admitting a "worrying" number of double-vaccinated patients for treatment for Covid-19, emergency department head Professor John Ryan has said.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on August 22, 2021, 10:46:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 22, 2021, 04:32:28 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 22, 2021, 12:47:31 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 21, 2021, 10:07:12 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on August 21, 2021, 09:59:05 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 21, 2021, 09:31:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 21, 2021, 09:11:38 PM
What's the story with that poor lad in Waterford?

Looks to have taken ill and died after taking the J&J jab?

RIP to him. What's far more concerning is the complete muzzle on the media, anything that deviates from the narrative is not to be reported & any adverse comment censored. We think we live in the free world. Hospital admissions for strokes, blood clots are through the roof in local hospitals, no co-relation with the vaccine at all. Now we not only have the Delta variant but Delta plus, looks like a right mess, hopefully the solution doesnt end up causing more problems in the short & medium terms.

Evidence please

You know well that this official information is not in the public domain, it would stop 12 year olds getting the vaccine. If interested I would suggest you speak with doctors / nurses / registrars that work in this area.

My sister is a nurse. Ive a few friends who are nurses and doctors and I havent heard them mention this at all

I've a sibling who's an infectious diseases doctor at a major US hospital and I've heard nothing like that either.

if they don't read the gah board, they're not a real doctor  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on August 23, 2021, 08:17:51 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on August 22, 2021, 07:17:40 PM

Independent.ie
@Independent_ie
St Vincent's hospital in Dublin is admitting a "worrying" number of double-vaccinated patients for treatment for Covid-19, emergency department head Professor John Ryan has said.

Interesting analogy by Dr. Leana Wen from the George Washington University Milken Institute School of Public Health:

Why do breakthrough infections still happen? We can think of vaccination as a very good raincoat. The raincoat will keep you dry in a drizzle. It might even work in a thunderstorm. But if you are in thunderstorms day after day, and sometimes going through hurricanes, at some point, you may get wet. The problem isn't that the raincoat isn't working — it's that there is too much bad weather all around you.
That's what is happening now with Covid-19 around the country. The level of virus is so high that the vaccine alone may not be enough to protect you. That's why a mask can help, as can reducing the number of high-risk environments you're in. Ultimately, we need to reduce the level of virus around us — and the best way to do that is through all of us getting vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on August 23, 2021, 10:58:33 AM
I find it very strange a large no, of person, doctors /nurses have not took the vaccine. Been they be from a medical background and supposedly know the dangers a question would need answered on why they refuse. Also the news has no issue posting the young lady who was pregnant, who died of Covid in the North at the weekend. Yet the lad in Waterford they no note he died suddenly after taking a vaccine, saying he had a short illness, which seems to be obviously not the case.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on August 23, 2021, 11:12:30 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 23, 2021, 10:58:33 AM
I find it very strange a large no, of person, doctors /nurses have not took the vaccine. Been they be from a medical background and supposedly know the dangers a question would need answered on why they refuse. Also the news has no issue posting the young lady who was pregnant, who died of Covid in the North at the weekend. Yet the lad in Waterford they no note he died suddenly after taking a vaccine, saying he had a short illness, which seems to be obviously not the case.

How do we know this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Norf Tyrone on August 23, 2021, 11:14:56 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 23, 2021, 10:58:33 AM
I find it very strange a large no, of person, doctors /nurses have not took the vaccine. Been they be from a medical background and supposedly know the dangers a question would need answered on why they refuse. Also the news has no issue posting the young lady who was pregnant, who died of Covid in the North at the weekend. Yet the lad in Waterford they no note he died suddenly after taking a vaccine, saying he had a short illness, which seems to be obviously not the case.

I hear what you're saying and thought the same myself. I assume it's because as per CV reporting she passed away 28 days since getting CV hence she is confirmed in that category.
However the other case will need a coroner to confirm what the cause of death was and speculation in the media would be really unhelpful.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on August 23, 2021, 11:21:41 AM
Quote from: Taylor on August 23, 2021, 11:12:30 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 23, 2021, 10:58:33 AM
I find it very strange a large no, of person, doctors /nurses have not took the vaccine. Been they be from a medical background and supposedly know the dangers a question would need answered on why they refuse. Also the news has no issue posting the young lady who was pregnant, who died of Covid in the North at the weekend. Yet the lad in Waterford they no note he died suddenly after taking a vaccine, saying he had a short illness, which seems to be obviously not the case.

How do we know this?

Again, I'm calling more bullshit here. Wildweasel74, that's exactly the kind of guff you read on social media, a large number?? . Not a single health care professional I know has not been double jabbed whether in primary or secondary care. Where are you getting your info from? And Rudi, which hospital's stroke and blood clot admissions are through the roof?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on August 23, 2021, 12:11:38 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 23, 2021, 11:21:41 AM
Quote from: Taylor on August 23, 2021, 11:12:30 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 23, 2021, 10:58:33 AM
I find it very strange a large no, of person, doctors /nurses have not took the vaccine. Been they be from a medical background and supposedly know the dangers a question would need answered on why they refuse. Also the news has no issue posting the young lady who was pregnant, who died of Covid in the North at the weekend. Yet the lad in Waterford they no note he died suddenly after taking a vaccine, saying he had a short illness, which seems to be obviously not the case.

How do we know this?

Again, I'm calling more bullshit here. Wildweasel74, that's exactly the kind of guff you read on social media, a large number?? . Not a single health care professional I know has not been double jabbed whether in primary or secondary care. Where are you getting your info from? And Rudi, which hospital's stroke and blood clot admissions are through the roof?

Letterkenny is high (this is from nurses that work in the hospital & a local doctor backed it up) JOG2. Study on line that links the vaccine with increase in strokes & blood clots. Fair number of nurses & hospital workers un-vaccinated, just because someone tells you they are vaccinated doesn't mean they actually are, the opposite also applies. A friend of mine sister is a GP, the only reason she got the vaccine was so she could administer the vaccines, she gets 50 euro a pop for this. Right or wrong there is also huge coercion attached to getting the vaccine in the medical sector.
By the way for every study that proves or dis proves a Covid / Vaccine theory there is 1 that does the opposite. Hard to know who to believe. Also JOG2, what do you make of the death in Waterford?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on August 23, 2021, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 23, 2021, 11:21:41 AM
Quote from: Taylor on August 23, 2021, 11:12:30 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 23, 2021, 10:58:33 AM
I find it very strange a large no, of person, doctors /nurses have not took the vaccine. Been they be from a medical background and supposedly know the dangers a question would need answered on why they refuse. Also the news has no issue posting the young lady who was pregnant, who died of Covid in the North at the weekend. Yet the lad in Waterford they no note he died suddenly after taking a vaccine, saying he had a short illness, which seems to be obviously not the case.

How do we know this?

Again, I'm calling more bullshit here. Wildweasel74, that's exactly the kind of guff you read on social media, a large number?? . Not a single health care professional I know has not been double jabbed whether in primary or secondary care. Where are you getting your info from? And Rudi, which hospital's stroke and blood clot admissions are through the roof?

Talk about contradictary. I doubt you know every healthcare professional in the country personally, so there may well be a number of them who haven't been jabbed. So never mind where WW74 got his info from, your info is only based on  those healthcare staff you happen to know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cobra on August 23, 2021, 12:32:48 PM
There is a pandemic of stupidity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 23, 2021, 12:52:20 PM
Quote from: Hound on August 23, 2021, 08:17:51 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on August 22, 2021, 07:17:40 PM

Independent.ie
@Independent_ie
St Vincent's hospital in Dublin is admitting a "worrying" number of double-vaccinated patients for treatment for Covid-19, emergency department head Professor John Ryan has said.

Interesting analogy by Dr. Leana Wen from the George Washington University Milken Institute School of Public Health:

Why do breakthrough infections still happen? We can think of vaccination as a very good raincoat. The raincoat will keep you dry in a drizzle. It might even work in a thunderstorm. But if you are in thunderstorms day after day, and sometimes going through hurricanes, at some point, you may get wet. The problem isn't that the raincoat isn't working — it's that there is too much bad weather all around you.
That's what is happening now with Covid-19 around the country. The level of virus is so high that the vaccine alone may not be enough to protect you. That's why a mask can help, as can reducing the number of high-risk environments you're in. Ultimately, we need to reduce the level of virus around us — and the best way to do that is through all of us getting vaccinated.

Excellent post Hound. The vaccine greatly reduces the probability of getting an infection, but not to zero. Hence we need to reduce the general prevalence of the virus to that the vaccine is not challenged on multiple occasions.

As for the general nonsense, I know a lad that died suddenly having eaten chicken the previous day, correlation is not causation.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on August 23, 2021, 01:22:59 PM
Vaccinations reduce transmission significantly but they wear off over time.
The virus is still out of control.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on August 23, 2021, 01:27:29 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 23, 2021, 10:58:33 AM
I find it very strange a large no, of person, doctors /nurses have not took the vaccine. Been they be from a medical background and supposedly know the dangers a question would need answered on why they refuse. Also the news has no issue posting the young lady who was pregnant, who died of Covid in the North at the weekend. Yet the lad in Waterford they no note he died suddenly after taking a vaccine, saying he had a short illness, which seems to be obviously not the case.

I work with about 30 of them. I can say with complete confidence that all of them are vaccinated.
Have no idea where you are getting this from.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on August 23, 2021, 01:32:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 23, 2021, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 23, 2021, 11:21:41 AM
Quote from: Taylor on August 23, 2021, 11:12:30 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 23, 2021, 10:58:33 AM
I find it very strange a large no, of person, doctors /nurses have not took the vaccine. Been they be from a medical background and supposedly know the dangers a question would need answered on why they refuse. Also the news has no issue posting the young lady who was pregnant, who died of Covid in the North at the weekend. Yet the lad in Waterford they no note he died suddenly after taking a vaccine, saying he had a short illness, which seems to be obviously not the case.

How do we know this?

Again, I'm calling more bullshit here. Wildweasel74, that's exactly the kind of guff you read on social media, a large number?? . Not a single health care professional I know has not been double jabbed whether in primary or secondary care. Where are you getting your info from? And Rudi, which hospital's stroke and blood clot admissions are through the roof?

Talk about contradictary. I doubt you know every healthcare professional in the country personally, so there may well be a number of them who haven't been jabbed. So never mind where WW74 got his info from, your info is only based on  those healthcare staff you happen to know.

I work right across the North in the Health sector, I know of none, not one. Yet WW knows of 'a large no'... How does that work tell me? Where is his info coming from?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 23, 2021, 03:07:25 PM
Pfizer just got full FDA approval in US.

There goes one excuse for the vaccine "hesitant".

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/23/us/politics/fda-approval-pfizer-vaccine.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/23/us/politics/fda-approval-pfizer-vaccine.html)

Going to be a flood of employer mandates now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on August 23, 2021, 03:08:41 PM
Nine deaths reported for Corona Virus in NI today.

Is this the price we have to be prepared to pay for opening up and remaining open?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on August 23, 2021, 03:34:57 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 23, 2021, 03:08:41 PM
Nine deaths reported for Corona Virus in NI today.

Is this the price we have to be prepared to pay for opening up and remaining open?

I stopped paying attention to the daily death figure a long time ago. For all we know,  none of those people may have died from covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on August 23, 2021, 03:36:31 PM
i think we are in for a long brutal winter
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on August 23, 2021, 04:39:06 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 23, 2021, 03:08:41 PM
Nine deaths reported for Corona Virus in NI today.

Is this the price we have to be prepared to pay for opening up and remaining open?
Any further details on those deaths? Could have been months in ICU and got covid long before things opened up.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on August 23, 2021, 04:46:24 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 23, 2021, 04:39:06 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 23, 2021, 03:08:41 PM
Nine deaths reported for Corona Virus in NI today.

Is this the price we have to be prepared to pay for opening up and remaining open?
Any further details on those deaths? Could have been months in ICU and got covid long before things opened up.

You're correct in one way, lots of people dying that way. They don't count in the Covid statistics though as it's only people who've tested positive in the last month who count in the statistics. The UK government changed the way they counted Covid deaths so they wouldn't look as bad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on August 23, 2021, 06:31:04 PM
I was in Hospital for a operation 2 weeks ago  after the operation I had mentioned the strain/ pressure they were under with Covid. And she clearly said some of her own colleagues had not got it for various reasons.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2021, 08:14:11 PM
Very good friend and neighbours mother died of Covid, well she caught Covid, though she had COPD which brought about a heart attack and she passed away as they couldn't do anything to help her.

He said his mum tested positive, and was fine,  the next day she was in ICU, double jabbed I think. So did she die of Covid heart attack or COPD?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 23, 2021, 08:19:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2021, 08:14:11 PM
Very good friend and neighbours mother died of Covid, well she caught Covid, though she had COPD which brought about a heart attack and she passed away as they couldn't do anything to help her.

He said his mum tested positive, and was fine,  the next day she was in ICU, double jabbed I think. So did she die of Covid heart attack or COPD?

If she hadn't caught Covid, would she likely still be with us?

Do hundreds and thousands of old people die from flu each winter, or is it all of their other ailments and failing bodies which are the cause?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2021, 08:32:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 23, 2021, 08:19:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2021, 08:14:11 PM
Very good friend and neighbours mother died of Covid, well she caught Covid, though she had COPD which brought about a heart attack and she passed away as they couldn't do anything to help her.

He said his mum tested positive, and was fine,  the next day she was in ICU, double jabbed I think. So did she die of Covid heart attack or COPD?

If she hadn't caught Covid, would she likely still be with us?

Do hundreds and thousands of old people die from flu each winter, or is it all of their other ailments and failing bodies which are the cause?

That's the thing, she was 82 and underlying conditions, I know it's a shock for them, but covid is being linked and they believe that Covid brought on things quicker
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 23, 2021, 08:48:50 PM
There is a great deal of talk about people in hospitals having Covid coincidentally and it having nothing to do with their ill health. In a month 3 or 4% of people have Covid, so you could expect that proportion of people in hospital to also have Covid. And it is true that many of the people who die had other issues and the Covid was the thing that put them over the line. But even if that is true for half the deaths, the other half were not likely to die if Covid was not around and that is still be good number of deaths. In NI, nowadays there are only 4 or 5 deaths each month from road accidents, but there are that number of Covid deaths each day and sometimes twice that many. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 23, 2021, 08:54:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2021, 08:32:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 23, 2021, 08:19:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2021, 08:14:11 PM
Very good friend and neighbours mother died of Covid, well she caught Covid, though she had COPD which brought about a heart attack and she passed away as they couldn't do anything to help her.

He said his mum tested positive, and was fine,  the next day she was in ICU, double jabbed I think. So did she die of Covid heart attack or COPD?

If she hadn't caught Covid, would she likely still be with us?

Do hundreds and thousands of old people die from flu each winter, or is it all of their other ailments and failing bodies which are the cause?

That's the thing, she was 82 and underlying conditions, I know it's a shock for them, but covid is being linked and they believe that Covid brought on things quicker

Yep, that's why there's been all of this concern about comorbidities going back to the start. No one said it would always be Covid alone which would kill or seriously stricken people. But unfortunately, many people without these typical comorbidities such as obesity or heart disease or immunosuppression have also been severely affected, including death. In many cases, there's been no way to predict in advance who would or would not be severely affected. Which leaves this whole line of argument fairly pointless, IMO, unless there's been a rash of cases where some completely asymptomatic person died of a gunshot or whatever and the fact that they tested positive was clearly completely irrelevant to their death.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 24, 2021, 02:05:29 PM
These lies about people being killed by vaccines has to stop.

There is a woman on the Joe Duffy show now whose sister died of natural causes at a young age. The anti vax maniacs have taken her name and photo from social media and are circulating it around, claiming that the family killed her by letting her get vaccinated. The lady who died had severe medical issues going back years, which is easily checked as she was the object of a fund raising campaign to get her treatment in the USA, her death was not in any way due to the vaccine. The family do not have the funds to sue these loonies. It would reflect well on some legal type to take a pro bono case here.
This is an absolute disgrace, why should the recently deceased families have to put up with this? And anyone spreading these rumours without some actual facts is complicit in this.
It would reflect well on some legal type to take a pro bono case for defamation here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 24, 2021, 02:15:03 PM
People just become so entrenched and resort to anything. The anti vax stuff does not seem to bring out the best in people.

1600+ cases in the north and 12 deaths. Numbers are moving into a pretty bad place  :(

Still there's no money so we may just plough on :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 24, 2021, 03:23:22 PM
1,521 (I think) in the south today. Down from over 2k two days in a row to two days in a row below 1,700.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 24, 2021, 03:37:21 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 24, 2021, 03:23:22 PM
1,521 (I think) in the south today. Down from over 2k two days in a row to two days in a row below 1,700.

75% of these cases are people not fully vaccinated. If people get jabbed the number of cases will drop greatly or eventually all the unvaccinated will have had the dose a couple of times.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on August 24, 2021, 04:10:18 PM
NPHET saying peak expected next month.
Scotland reporting highest ever no of daily cases!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on August 25, 2021, 08:42:17 PM
How many on here are ok to get booster shots ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on August 25, 2021, 09:25:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 25, 2021, 08:42:17 PM
How many on here are ok to get booster shots ?
Only after disadvantaged countries get a decent portion of their population vaccinated
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on August 25, 2021, 09:59:27 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 25, 2021, 09:25:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 25, 2021, 08:42:17 PM
How many on here are ok to get booster shots ?
Only after disadvantaged countries get a decent portion of their population vaccinated
Yeah there's not much point us all being vaccinated for another delta style variant to pop up in Nigeria or somewhere and prove to be even worse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on August 25, 2021, 10:21:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 25, 2021, 08:42:17 PM
How many on here are ok to get booster shots ?
I'm double vaccinated so when the time is right I'll take the booster otherwise the other 2 were a waste of time. Would agree with the other lads though that the right thing is to get developing countries vaxxed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on August 25, 2021, 11:47:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2021, 08:14:11 PM
Very good friend and neighbours mother died of Covid, well she caught Covid, though she had COPD which brought about a heart attack and she passed away as they couldn't do anything to help her.

He said his mum tested positive, and was fine,  the next day she was in ICU, double jabbed I think. So did she die of Covid heart attack or COPD?

Covid. That triggered the events that caused her passing.

We all will die of heart failure. Everyone. But that wouldn't be a satisfactory way to record deaths, would it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on August 26, 2021, 12:17:59 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

Thats like pulling out of a marathon with 200m to go
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on August 26, 2021, 12:24:00 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

That vaccine passport will need updated, or it's no pub or bingo for you. It'll be  a never ending jab-athon from here on in
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:43:11 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 26, 2021, 12:24:00 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

That vaccine passport will need updated, or it's no pub or bingo for you. It'll be  a never ending jab-athon from here on in

Hard de bate the fire pits
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on August 26, 2021, 07:43:12 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 26, 2021, 12:17:59 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

Thats like pulling out of a marathon with 200m to go
Feels more like a never ending 400m loop tbh....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on August 26, 2021, 08:46:48 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

Lol, enough said.  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on August 26, 2021, 08:51:00 AM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2021, 08:46:48 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

Lol, enough said.  ;D

Just take whatever mutations appear on the chin... Stiff upper lip time
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 08:58:37 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 26, 2021, 08:51:00 AM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2021, 08:46:48 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

Lol, enough said.  ;D

Just take whatever mutations appear on the chin... Stiff upper lip time

I think so tbh. I'll take the yearly one but not that and boosters , surely that can't be right. It will be us that are mutated by the end of it  :)

I'm not anti vax, I know our hospitals are under renewed and considerable pressure in past few days due to a significant spike . 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on August 26, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 10:03:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 26, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 10:29:22 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 10:03:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 26, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.

That's more where I'd like to see it go.

Look I was very much in 2 minds to begin with about any vaccination and was convinced to get it it was the correct decision for me at the time.

At the moment in not sold on boosters, but Ivr had to u turn before
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on August 26, 2021, 10:31:14 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 10:03:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 26, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.

As someone else pointed out it may be more prudent to provide the rest of the world vaccinations than to use them as boosters here in the "west".

To be totally rid of Covid 19 it will take a global response as unless we do we'll be in this continuous cycle of "new variant - lockdown - develop new vaccine", so on and so forth..

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 10:37:21 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 26, 2021, 10:31:14 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 10:03:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 26, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.

As someone else pointed out it may be more prudent to provide the rest of the world vaccinations than to use them as boosters here in the "west".

To be totally rid of Covid 19 it will take a global response as unless we do we'll be in this continuous cycle of "new variant - lockdown - develop new vaccine", so on and so forth..

In the short term only the vulnerable and health care workers need boosters. Other middle people could receive boosters in 4 months time and the younger people might not get one until next year, in the meantime you cold vaccinate the world.  The latest idea is that the booster will be a lower dose than the original, its purpose being to remind the immune system of the virus, and this would conserve production. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 10:42:14 AM
What is the fear with the boosters over the original jab? Are you feared of the Flu jab as well? I just can't get my head around this.
A better vaccine will be developed but this is the best in the interim. I meant what is the alternative?
It's shown now that it isn't a season virus. The mutations are more contagious, so if we didn't have the vaccine levels we have what would the death toll be like? And we'd all be back into lockdown.
It's not ideal, but it's the only option we have on the table without complete lockdowns again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on August 26, 2021, 10:53:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:43:11 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 26, 2021, 12:24:00 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

That vaccine passport will need updated, or it's no pub or bingo for you. It'll be  a never ending jab-athon from here on in

Hard de bate the fire pits
You and Anne McCloskey round the fire would be some craic ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 11:03:50 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 10:29:22 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 10:03:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 26, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.

That's more where I'd like to see it go.

Look I was very much in 2 minds to begin with about any vaccination and was convinced to get it it was the correct decision for me at the time.

At the moment in not sold on boosters, but Ivr had to u turn before

When you see people who aren't vaccinated clogging up hospitals and in some cases dying, I just don't get why you would do everything you could to help prevent that including getting a booster dose if offered. Just seems a crazy position to take.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:29:33 AM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 11:03:50 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 10:29:22 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 10:03:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 26, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.

That's more where I'd like to see it go.

Look I was very much in 2 minds to begin with about any vaccination and was convinced to get it it was the correct decision for me at the time.

At the moment in not sold on boosters, but Ivr had to u turn before

When you see people who aren't vaccinated clogging up hospitals and in some cases dying, I just don't get why you would do everything you could to help prevent that including getting a booster dose if offered. Just seems a crazy position to take.

But absolutely nobody is saying boosters would stop that . Or am I missing something? We are asking people to be double jabbed, isn't that the official line

I have done everything possible, my wife worked in Covid ward and I'm double jabbed so not sure what you are saying there
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:31:40 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on August 26, 2021, 10:53:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:43:11 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 26, 2021, 12:24:00 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

That vaccine passport will need updated, or it's no pub or bingo for you. It'll be  a never ending jab-athon from here on in

Hard de bate the fire pits
You and Anne McCloskey round the fire would be some craic ;D

What is that supposed to mean? Where did I take anywhere a line close to her?
Is it because she was fired from Aontu ? People seem to forget on that point that she was a Shinner for much much longer ,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:33:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:29:33 AM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 11:03:50 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 10:29:22 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 10:03:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 26, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.

That's more where I'd like to see it go.

Look I was very much in 2 minds to begin with about any vaccination and was convinced to get it it was the correct decision for me at the time.

At the moment in not sold on boosters, but Ivr had to u turn before

When you see people who aren't vaccinated clogging up hospitals and in some cases dying, I just don't get why you would do everything you could to help prevent that including getting a booster dose if offered. Just seems a crazy position to take.

But absolutely nobody is saying boosters would stop that . Or am I missing something? We are asking people to be double jabbed, isn't that the official line
Do you understand boosters? If Covid immunity drops over time from the original vaccine then you require a top up. Hopefully one that might be amended to cover recent strains similar to the flu jabs. It's really simple, and I can't see what the issue is?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:36:17 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:33:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:29:33 AM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 11:03:50 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 10:29:22 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 10:03:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 26, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.

That's more where I'd like to see it go.

Look I was very much in 2 minds to begin with about any vaccination and was convinced to get it it was the correct decision for me at the time.

At the moment in not sold on boosters, but Ivr had to u turn before

When you see people who aren't vaccinated clogging up hospitals and in some cases dying, I just don't get why you would do everything you could to help prevent that including getting a booster dose if offered. Just seems a crazy position to take.

But absolutely nobody is saying boosters would stop that . Or am I missing something? We are asking people to be double jabbed, isn't that the official line
Do you understand boosters? If Covid immunity drops over time from the original vaccine then you require a top up. Hopefully one that might be amended to cover recent strains similar to the flu jabs. It's really simple, and I can't see what the issue is?

That's a big if, are we giving boosters ? Ive clearly missed the memo
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on August 26, 2021, 11:39:53 AM
As illogical and idiotic as I've seen yet.

2 jabs, no bother.

A third - hell no!

;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:41:43 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:36:17 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:33:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:29:33 AM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 11:03:50 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 10:29:22 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 10:03:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 26, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.

That's more where I'd like to see it go.

Look I was very much in 2 minds to begin with about any vaccination and was convinced to get it it was the correct decision for me at the time.

At the moment in not sold on boosters, but Ivr had to u turn before

When you see people who aren't vaccinated clogging up hospitals and in some cases dying, I just don't get why you would do everything you could to help prevent that including getting a booster dose if offered. Just seems a crazy position to take.

But absolutely nobody is saying boosters would stop that . Or am I missing something? We are asking people to be double jabbed, isn't that the official line
Do you understand boosters? If Covid immunity drops over time from the original vaccine then you require a top up. Hopefully one that might be amended to cover recent strains similar to the flu jabs. It's really simple, and I can't see what the issue is?

That's a big if, are we giving boosters ? Ive clearly missed the memo

You haven't read anything about immunity decreasing from the initial vaccines or seen any discussions about why we might be getting a booster?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:45:15 AM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2021, 11:39:53 AM
As illogical and idiotic as I've seen yet.

2 jabs, no bother.

A third - hell no!

;D ;D

Mmm, thanks that's helpful

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:49:03 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:41:43 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:36:17 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:33:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:29:33 AM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 11:03:50 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 10:29:22 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 10:03:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 26, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.

That's more where I'd like to see it go.

Look I was very much in 2 minds to begin with about any vaccination and was convinced to get it it was the correct decision for me at the time.

At the moment in not sold on boosters, but Ivr had to u turn before

When you see people who aren't vaccinated clogging up hospitals and in some cases dying, I just don't get why you would do everything you could to help prevent that including getting a booster dose if offered. Just seems a crazy position to take.

But absolutely nobody is saying boosters would stop that . Or am I missing something? We are asking people to be double jabbed, isn't that the official line
Do you understand boosters? If Covid immunity drops over time from the original vaccine then you require a top up. Hopefully one that might be amended to cover recent strains similar to the flu jabs. It's really simple, and I can't see what the issue is?

That's a big if, are we giving boosters ? Ive clearly missed the memo

You haven't read anything about immunity decreasing from the initial vaccines or seen any discussions about why we might be getting a booster?

Yes and as I said I'm not concvinced on current data I should take one .

I'm open minded on it. Thanks for your polite interaction, others on here don't realise it's a debate forum not a bullying and abuse forum
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on August 26, 2021, 11:56:59 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:49:03 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:41:43 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:36:17 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:33:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:29:33 AM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 11:03:50 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 10:29:22 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 10:03:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 26, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.

That's more where I'd like to see it go.

Look I was very much in 2 minds to begin with about any vaccination and was convinced to get it it was the correct decision for me at the time.

At the moment in not sold on boosters, but Ivr had to u turn before

When you see people who aren't vaccinated clogging up hospitals and in some cases dying, I just don't get why you would do everything you could to help prevent that including getting a booster dose if offered. Just seems a crazy position to take.

But absolutely nobody is saying boosters would stop that . Or am I missing something? We are asking people to be double jabbed, isn't that the official line
Do you understand boosters? If Covid immunity drops over time from the original vaccine then you require a top up. Hopefully one that might be amended to cover recent strains similar to the flu jabs. It's really simple, and I can't see what the issue is?

That's a big if, are we giving boosters ? Ive clearly missed the memo

You haven't read anything about immunity decreasing from the initial vaccines or seen any discussions about why we might be getting a booster?

Yes and as I said I'm not concvinced on current data I should take one .

I'm open minded on it. Thanks for your polite interaction, others on here don't realise it's a debate forum not a bullying and abuse forum
Tell us about your analysis of the data and how it differs from that of the Israelis who previously were streets ahead in their vaccination programme and because of that are now seeing a drop off in the efficacy of the vaccines and are therefore advocating a top up booster.

If you light a fire of a winter evening do throw on another stick when the heat goes down or do you say "f**k it I'll let it go out".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on August 26, 2021, 12:09:50 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/23cdbf8c-b5ef-4596-bb46-f510606ab556

Israel hopes boosters can avert new lockdown as vaccine efficacy fades Earliest to vaccinate, Israel is the first to confront fading protection of Pfizer's jabs with third shot Israeli prime minister Naftali Bennett receives a Covid booster shot on Friday © Jack Guez/AFP/Getty Share on twitter (opens new window) Share on facebook (opens new window) Share on linkedin (opens new window) Share Save Mehul Srivastava in Tel Aviv and John Burn-Murdoch in London AUGUST 23 2021 73 Print this page Be the first to know about every new Coronavirus story Get instant email alerts

After Israel raced ahead to vaccinate much of its population and reopened its economy in March, the Mediterranean nation became a lode star for the world. For five months Israelis enjoyed a taste of post-pandemic freedom, with jubilant, mask-free street parties and crowded restaurants. But now, with Israel's coronavirus infections soaring to highs last seen in February and the public braced for another potential lockdown, scientists are asking what has gone wrong in a country where 80 per cent of adults have been double jabbed. The answer, slowly taking shape in hotly contested data, is that the protection conferred by the BioNTech/Pfizer two-shot vaccine, which Israel has used almost exclusively, appears to fade over time faster than anticipated, increasing the risk of "breakthrough infections". This eventually leaves those inoculated first — generally the oldest and most vulnerable — at increasing risk of infection and severe illness. At the Sheba Medical Center, the largest in Israel, researchers identified the trend early. Monthly blood tests of medical staff, many of whom had been inoculated in December, started to show declining antibody levels and significant falls by June, said Arnon Afek, a top official at the hospital chain. Antibody levels can sometimes decline without having an impact on efficacy, but, at about the same time, Sheba hospitals began to note a rise in elderly, vaccinated people testing positive and seeking care. "It was quite alarming," said Afek. "Around six months, we realised that the level of antibodies in our staff were falling, and across Israel, there was an increase in the number of patients. And this was happening in parallel with the Delta variant." By August, according to the health ministry, studies showed the Pfizer vaccine's efficacy against infection falling to 39 per cent, and to as low as 16 per cent for people who got their second shots in January. Most worryingly, the vaccine's efficacy for the prevention of severe disease in the most vulnerable cohort — Israelis aged over 65, most of whom were double-jabbed by January — had dropped to 55 per cent, the ministry said. Immunologists and experts, both in Israel and outside, have questioned the precision of that data, which the Israeli government released quietly, and without any clarity on its methodology. Other international studies have also showed lower efficacy for the Pfizer vaccine against the Delta variant and waning immunity over time, but the estimated declines have generally been smaller.

An Oxford university study published on Thursday found that the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine against symptomatic infection almost halved after four months. Pfizer, which has worked closely with Israel during the pandemic and is pushing for the use of boosters globally, supported the government's assessment. "These latest data from Israel are consistent with the epidemiological trends we have been observing and reinforce the need for a booster dose to re-establish maximum protective efficacy," Pfizer said in response to questions. Eran Segal, an adviser to the Israeli government and a computational biologist, said the efficacy of the vaccine was clearly falling over time. "If it weren't for what seems to be a waning effect, we wouldn't be seeing such high numbers," he said. More concerning than the numbers testing positive was the number requiring hospitalisation. As Delta took over in the UK, the vaccination drive meant the proportion of coronavirus cases requiring hospitalisation fell by 70 per cent, the so-called decoupling between infection and hospitalisation. In Israel, where more of the elderly had been vaccinated earlier and Delta arrived later, that number only fell by 40 per cent, a trend that experts, including Segal, said showed the vaccine's protection against severe illness had started to wane over time.  Israel has the capacity to handle about 1,200 Covid patients with severe illness, and by mid-August, half of those hospital beds were full. Recommended Covid-19 vaccines Covid-19 vaccine tracker: the global race to vaccinate Speaking at a cabinet meeting on Sunday, Prime Minister Naftali Bennett said: "Paradoxically, the most vulnerable group right now are those who've been inoculated with two doses and [have yet to receive] the third. "The're going around with the sense they're protected — they don't understand the second dose erodes over time against the Delta strain." In an effort to avoid another national lockdown, Bennett announced an almost $800m plan to double hospital capacity to deal with the severely ill. On July 30 Israel also became the first country to give a third shot of the Pfizer vaccine as a booster.

"The decision should have been taken earlier, but it was still a very, very courageous decision," said Afek, who was previously the top civil servant at the health ministry. "At the time, the US Food and Drug Administration was saying a third shot was not necessary, so it took a lot of bravery to go ahead without the backing of the FDA." The FDA did not authorise third doses of the vaccine until August 13, and only for immunocompromised adults. Israel initially administered boosters to people over 60, then to those over 50 and, since Friday, to people over 40. Some of the early data on the impact of the booster shots looks promising. At Maccabi Health Service, a large healthcare provider, the vaccine's efficacy shot up to 86 per cent just seven days after the injection, said Anat Ekka Zohar, who ran a study of about 150,000 triple-jabbed people over 60, of whom only 37 people caught coronavirus in the first week after the booster. "The triple dose is the solution to curbing the current infection outbreak," she said. But Aaron Richterman, an infectious disease researcher at the University of Pennsylvania, cautioned that, although the immune system tends to respond quickly to booster vaccinations, it was too early to measure its impact. People who were "very early adopters" of boosters were likely to be different in terms of "occupation, risk aversion, healthcare-seeking behaviour" to those who chose not to seek a third shot, making comparisons difficult, he said. "Even the most careful analyses can remain biased if the populations being compared are very different," he added.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:16:54 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 26, 2021, 11:56:59 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:49:03 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:41:43 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:36:17 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:33:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:29:33 AM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 11:03:50 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 10:29:22 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 10:03:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 26, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.

That's more where I'd like to see it go.

Look I was very much in 2 minds to begin with about any vaccination and was convinced to get it it was the correct decision for me at the time.

At the moment in not sold on boosters, but Ivr had to u turn before

When you see people who aren't vaccinated clogging up hospitals and in some cases dying, I just don't get why you would do everything you could to help prevent that including getting a booster dose if offered. Just seems a crazy position to take.

But absolutely nobody is saying boosters would stop that . Or am I missing something? We are asking people to be double jabbed, isn't that the official line
Do you understand boosters? If Covid immunity drops over time from the original vaccine then you require a top up. Hopefully one that might be amended to cover recent strains similar to the flu jabs. It's really simple, and I can't see what the issue is?

That's a big if, are we giving boosters ? Ive clearly missed the memo

You haven't read anything about immunity decreasing from the initial vaccines or seen any discussions about why we might be getting a booster?

Yes and as I said I'm not concvinced on current data I should take one .

I'm open minded on it. Thanks for your polite interaction, others on here don't realise it's a debate forum not a bullying and abuse forum
Tell us about your analysis of the data and how it differs from that of the Israelis who previously were streets ahead in their vaccination programme and because of that are now seeing a drop off in the efficacy of the vaccines and are therefore advocating a top up booster.

If you light a fire of a winter evening do throw on another stick when the heat goes down or do you say "f**k it I'll let it go out".

Are we back onto fire pits ? Is there a connection with sticks and booster now, Jesus I'm well behind
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on August 26, 2021, 12:44:52 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

So now you are "open minded" about it.

The bit in bold was your opinion an hour ago, which doesn't sound particularly open minded.

And stop with the poor me routine.

You're all over the place and huffing because you've been called on it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on August 26, 2021, 12:44:57 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:49:03 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:41:43 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:36:17 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:33:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:29:33 AM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 11:03:50 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 10:29:22 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 10:03:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 26, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.

That's more where I'd like to see it go.

Look I was very much in 2 minds to begin with about any vaccination and was convinced to get it it was the correct decision for me at the time.

At the moment in not sold on boosters, but Ivr had to u turn before

When you see people who aren't vaccinated clogging up hospitals and in some cases dying, I just don't get why you would do everything you could to help prevent that including getting a booster dose if offered. Just seems a crazy position to take.

But absolutely nobody is saying boosters would stop that . Or am I missing something? We are asking people to be double jabbed, isn't that the official line
Do you understand boosters? If Covid immunity drops over time from the original vaccine then you require a top up. Hopefully one that might be amended to cover recent strains similar to the flu jabs. It's really simple, and I can't see what the issue is?

That's a big if, are we giving boosters ? Ive clearly missed the memo

You haven't read anything about immunity decreasing from the initial vaccines or seen any discussions about why we might be getting a booster?

Yes and as I said I'm not concvinced on current data I should take one .

I'm open minded on it. Thanks for your polite interaction, others on here don't realise it's a debate forum not a bullying and abuse forum
Hopefully it gets to the point were the elderly/vulnerable get a booster jab along with their yearly flu jab and the rest of us don't have to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on August 26, 2021, 12:54:28 PM
Surprised that the BBC have reported on this.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on August 26, 2021, 01:02:15 PM
Quote from: clarshack on August 26, 2021, 12:54:28 PM
Surprised that the BBC have reported on this.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796

Why would they? There is no cover up. Too many people are convinced the media/ government are out to get them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on August 26, 2021, 02:00:28 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2021, 12:44:52 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

So now you are "open minded" about it.

The bit in bold was your opinion an hour ago, which doesn't sound particularly open minded.

And stop with the poor me routine.

You're all over the place and huffing because you've been called on it.
he already had covid and is double jabbed , I think he will be ok .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on August 26, 2021, 02:10:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 26, 2021, 02:00:28 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2021, 12:44:52 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

So now you are "open minded" about it.

The bit in bold was your opinion an hour ago, which doesn't sound particularly open minded.

And stop with the poor me routine.

You're all over the place and huffing because you've been called on it.
he already had covid and is double jabbed , I think he will be ok .

;D  Gmac knows the score.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on August 26, 2021, 02:21:24 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2021, 02:10:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 26, 2021, 02:00:28 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2021, 12:44:52 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

So now you are "open minded" about it.

The bit in bold was your opinion an hour ago, which doesn't sound particularly open minded.

And stop with the poor me routine.

You're all over the place and huffing because you've been called on it.
he already had covid and is double jabbed , I think he will be ok .

;D  Gmac knows the score.
as we move forward through this the Vaccines are good but natural immunity is what will keep him safe .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on August 26, 2021, 02:26:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:31:40 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on August 26, 2021, 10:53:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:43:11 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 26, 2021, 12:24:00 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

That vaccine passport will need updated, or it's no pub or bingo for you. It'll be  a never ending jab-athon from here on in

Hard de bate the fire pits
You and Anne McCloskey round the fire would be some craic ;D

What is that supposed to mean? Where did I take anywhere a line close to her?
Is it because she was fired from Aontu ? People seem to forget on that point that she was a Shinner for much much longer ,
Just a light hearted joke, didnt mean to bully and abuse you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 02:48:59 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on August 26, 2021, 02:26:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:31:40 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on August 26, 2021, 10:53:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:43:11 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 26, 2021, 12:24:00 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

That vaccine passport will need updated, or it's no pub or bingo for you. It'll be  a never ending jab-athon from here on in

Hard de bate the fire pits
You and Anne McCloskey round the fire would be some craic ;D

What is that supposed to mean? Where did I take anywhere a line close to her?
Is it because she was fired from Aontu ? People seem to forget on that point that she was a Shinner for much much longer ,
Just a light hearted joke, didnt mean to bully and abuse you.

Didn't say you did , now stop being a tube, it's not your form, and you need to brush up on your jokes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 03:01:21 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2021, 12:44:52 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

So now you are "open minded" about it.

The bit in bold was your opinion an hour ago, which doesn't sound particularly open minded.

And stop with the poor me routine.

You're all over the place and huffing because you've been called on it.

Called out for what ? Having an opinion different from the groupthink masters.
I'm well able to defend myself but lads just piling in to throw abuse whilst not giving anything new to the debate except  the abuse itself  is piss poor.
I said on current info I'm not for boosters but if things change so might i. Amazingly this level of adaptability has helped me reach adulthood relatively intact
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on August 26, 2021, 03:41:26 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 26, 2021, 01:02:15 PM
Quote from: clarshack on August 26, 2021, 12:54:28 PM
Surprised that the BBC have reported on this.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796

Why would they? There is no cover up. Too many people are convinced the media/ government are out to get them.

So you trust the governments (Irish, British or any) 100% then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on August 26, 2021, 03:46:58 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 26, 2021, 12:44:57 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:49:03 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:41:43 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:36:17 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:33:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:29:33 AM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 11:03:50 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 10:29:22 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 10:03:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 26, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.

That's more where I'd like to see it go.

Look I was very much in 2 minds to begin with about any vaccination and was convinced to get it it was the correct decision for me at the time.

At the moment in not sold on boosters, but Ivr had to u turn before

When you see people who aren't vaccinated clogging up hospitals and in some cases dying, I just don't get why you would do everything you could to help prevent that including getting a booster dose if offered. Just seems a crazy position to take.

But absolutely nobody is saying boosters would stop that . Or am I missing something? We are asking people to be double jabbed, isn't that the official line
Do you understand boosters? If Covid immunity drops over time from the original vaccine then you require a top up. Hopefully one that might be amended to cover recent strains similar to the flu jabs. It's really simple, and I can't see what the issue is?

That's a big if, are we giving boosters ? Ive clearly missed the memo

You haven't read anything about immunity decreasing from the initial vaccines or seen any discussions about why we might be getting a booster?

Yes and as I said I'm not concvinced on current data I should take one .

I'm open minded on it. Thanks for your polite interaction, others on here don't realise it's a debate forum not a bullying and abuse forum
Hopefully it gets to the point were the elderly/vulnerable get a booster jab along with their yearly flu jab and the rest of us don't have to.

Not a  chance.  It will be drip fed to you in that tone, but that will change. the majority of people have been frightened/coerced/pushed into getting double jabbed.. And they'll just sigh, and go again for regular top ups whether they like it  or not . But sure,anything to get back to normal, eh?   ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 03:52:27 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 26, 2021, 03:46:58 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 26, 2021, 12:44:57 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:49:03 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:41:43 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:36:17 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:33:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:29:33 AM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 11:03:50 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 10:29:22 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 10:03:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 26, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.

That's more where I'd like to see it go.

Look I was very much in 2 minds to begin with about any vaccination and was convinced to get it it was the correct decision for me at the time.

At the moment in not sold on boosters, but Ivr had to u turn before

When you see people who aren't vaccinated clogging up hospitals and in some cases dying, I just don't get why you would do everything you could to help prevent that including getting a booster dose if offered. Just seems a crazy position to take.

But absolutely nobody is saying boosters would stop that . Or am I missing something? We are asking people to be double jabbed, isn't that the official line
Do you understand boosters? If Covid immunity drops over time from the original vaccine then you require a top up. Hopefully one that might be amended to cover recent strains similar to the flu jabs. It's really simple, and I can't see what the issue is?

That's a big if, are we giving boosters ? Ive clearly missed the memo

You haven't read anything about immunity decreasing from the initial vaccines or seen any discussions about why we might be getting a booster?

Yes and as I said I'm not concvinced on current data I should take one .

I'm open minded on it. Thanks for your polite interaction, others on here don't realise it's a debate forum not a bullying and abuse forum
Hopefully it gets to the point were the elderly/vulnerable get a booster jab along with their yearly flu jab and the rest of us don't have to.

Not a  chance.  It will be drip fed to you in that tone, but that will change. the majority of people have been frightened/coerced/pushed into getting double jabbed.. And they'll just sigh, and go again for regular top ups whether they like it  or not . But sure,anything to get back to normal, eh?   ::)

Come on Benny the stats on hospitalisations for vaccinated versus unvaccinated alone is a logical reason to get the jab. You might like to think your smarter than the rest of these plebs who were coerced into getting the vaccine. But the reality is you are the one going against logic  and your argument s to date have been weak as water (no offence).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on August 26, 2021, 03:52:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 02:48:59 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on August 26, 2021, 02:26:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:31:40 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on August 26, 2021, 10:53:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:43:11 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 26, 2021, 12:24:00 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

That vaccine passport will need updated, or it's no pub or bingo for you. It'll be  a never ending jab-athon from here on in

Hard de bate the fire pits
You and Anne McCloskey round the fire would be some craic ;D

What is that supposed to mean? Where did I take anywhere a line close to her?
Is it because she was fired from Aontu ? People seem to forget on that point that she was a Shinner for much much longer ,
Just a light hearted joke, didnt mean to bully and abuse you.

Didn't say you did , now stop being a tube, it's not your form, and you need to brush up on your jokes
Sorry lad just  having a slow day at the new job. Started working this week in the fish counter at Sainsburys, not sure if its for me. Im just trying to weigh up the frozen prawns.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 04:01:56 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on August 26, 2021, 03:52:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 02:48:59 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on August 26, 2021, 02:26:46 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:31:40 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on August 26, 2021, 10:53:17 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:43:11 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 26, 2021, 12:24:00 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

That vaccine passport will need updated, or it's no pub or bingo for you. It'll be  a never ending jab-athon from here on in

Hard de bate the fire pits
You and Anne McCloskey round the fire would be some craic ;D

What is that supposed to mean? Where did I take anywhere a line close to her?
Is it because she was fired from Aontu ? People seem to forget on that point that she was a Shinner for much much longer ,
Just a light hearted joke, didnt mean to bully and abuse you.

Didn't say you did , now stop being a tube, it's not your form, and you need to brush up on your jokes
Sorry lad just  having a slow day at the new job. Started working this week in the fish counter at Sainsburys, not sure if its for me. Im just trying to weigh up the frozen prawns.
Boom now we are talking ! Lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on August 26, 2021, 04:23:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 03:52:27 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 26, 2021, 03:46:58 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 26, 2021, 12:44:57 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:49:03 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:41:43 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:36:17 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:33:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:29:33 AM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 11:03:50 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 10:29:22 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 10:03:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 26, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.

That's more where I'd like to see it go.

Look I was very much in 2 minds to begin with about any vaccination and was convinced to get it it was the correct decision for me at the time.

At the moment in not sold on boosters, but Ivr had to u turn before

When you see people who aren't vaccinated clogging up hospitals and in some cases dying, I just don't get why you would do everything you could to help prevent that including getting a booster dose if offered. Just seems a crazy position to take.

But absolutely nobody is saying boosters would stop that . Or am I missing something? We are asking people to be double jabbed, isn't that the official line
Do you understand boosters? If Covid immunity drops over time from the original vaccine then you require a top up. Hopefully one that might be amended to cover recent strains similar to the flu jabs. It's really simple, and I can't see what the issue is?

That's a big if, are we giving boosters ? Ive clearly missed the memo

You haven't read anything about immunity decreasing from the initial vaccines or seen any discussions about why we might be getting a booster?

Yes and as I said I'm not concvinced on current data I should take one .

I'm open minded on it. Thanks for your polite interaction, others on here don't realise it's a debate forum not a bullying and abuse forum
Hopefully it gets to the point were the elderly/vulnerable get a booster jab along with their yearly flu jab and the rest of us don't have to.

Not a  chance.  It will be drip fed to you in that tone, but that will change. the majority of people have been frightened/coerced/pushed into getting double jabbed.. And they'll just sigh, and go again for regular top ups whether they like it  or not . But sure,anything to get back to normal, eh?   ::)

Come on Benny the stats on hospitalisations for vaccinated versus unvaccinated alone is a logical reason to get the jab. You might like to think your smarter than the rest of these plebs who were coerced into getting the vaccine. But the reality is you are the one going against logic  and your argument s to date have been weak as water (no offence).

That's  the way it's going to be though. If  people think they're done with jabs after the double vaccine, they're very naive . This will be like painting the Forth bridge; never ending.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 04:31:13 PM
There's gonna be a certain amount of the population who refuse to get vaccinated. They should however just stay at home if they get ill and refuse medical intervention.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 04:41:34 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 26, 2021, 04:23:57 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 03:52:27 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 26, 2021, 03:46:58 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 26, 2021, 12:44:57 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:49:03 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:41:43 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:36:17 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:33:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:29:33 AM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 11:03:50 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 10:29:22 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 10:03:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 26, 2021, 09:45:17 AM
Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.

That's more where I'd like to see it go.

Look I was very much in 2 minds to begin with about any vaccination and was convinced to get it it was the correct decision for me at the time.

At the moment in not sold on boosters, but Ivr had to u turn before

When you see people who aren't vaccinated clogging up hospitals and in some cases dying, I just don't get why you would do everything you could to help prevent that including getting a booster dose if offered. Just seems a crazy position to take.

But absolutely nobody is saying boosters would stop that . Or am I missing something? We are asking people to be double jabbed, isn't that the official line
Do you understand boosters? If Covid immunity drops over time from the original vaccine then you require a top up. Hopefully one that might be amended to cover recent strains similar to the flu jabs. It's really simple, and I can't see what the issue is?

That's a big if, are we giving boosters ? Ive clearly missed the memo

You haven't read anything about immunity decreasing from the initial vaccines or seen any discussions about why we might be getting a booster?

Yes and as I said I'm not concvinced on current data I should take one .

I'm open minded on it. Thanks for your polite interaction, others on here don't realise it's a debate forum not a bullying and abuse forum
Hopefully it gets to the point were the elderly/vulnerable get a booster jab along with their yearly flu jab and the rest of us don't have to.

Not a  chance.  It will be drip fed to you in that tone, but that will change. the majority of people have been frightened/coerced/pushed into getting double jabbed.. And they'll just sigh, and go again for regular top ups whether they like it  or not . But sure,anything to get back to normal, eh?   ::)

Come on Benny the stats on hospitalisations for vaccinated versus unvaccinated alone is a logical reason to get the jab. You might like to think your smarter than the rest of these plebs who were coerced into getting the vaccine. But the reality is you are the one going against logic  and your argument s to date have been weak as water (no offence).

That's  the way it's going to be though. If  people think they're done with jabs after the double vaccine, they're very naive . This will be like painting the Forth bridge; never ending.

So be it. It's no surprise. They were talking about boosters last year. No different from the flu booster. I'll tab a jab a year to keep things away from the cluster f**k they were here earlier in the year,  no problem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on August 26, 2021, 05:04:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 03:01:21 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2021, 12:44:52 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 25, 2021, 11:48:03 PM
Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

So now you are "open minded" about it.

The bit in bold was your opinion an hour ago, which doesn't sound particularly open minded.

And stop with the poor me routine.

You're all over the place and huffing because you've been called on it.

Called out for what ? Having an opinion different from the groupthink masters.
I'm well able to defend myself but lads just piling in to throw abuse whilst not giving anything new to the debate except  the abuse itself  is piss poor.
I said on current info I'm not for boosters but if things change so might i. Amazingly this level of adaptability has helped me reach adulthood relatively intact

Lol get the violins out

What new info came to light in the hour between "won't be getting it" and "I'm open minded"  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on August 26, 2021, 07:56:19 PM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 04:31:13 PM
There's gonna be a certain amount of the population who refuse to get vaccinated. They should however just stay at home if they get ill and refuse medical intervention.

Why should they stay at home and why would anyone refuse medical treatment?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on August 26, 2021, 08:05:53 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 26, 2021, 07:56:19 PM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 04:31:13 PM
There's gonna be a certain amount of the population who refuse to get vaccinated. They should however just stay at home if they get ill and refuse medical intervention.

Why should they stay at home and why would anyone refuse medical treatment?

No one should ever be refused medical treatment, but the anti crew were very vocal when Covid was stopping cancer treatment, transplants etc... Not quite as vocal now when these same procedures are put on hold as the ICU wards are jammed with anti-vaxers who have steadfastly refused to do their bit
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 08:20:45 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 26, 2021, 07:56:19 PM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 04:31:13 PM
There's gonna be a certain amount of the population who refuse to get vaccinated. They should however just stay at home if they get ill and refuse medical intervention.

Why should they stay at home and why would anyone refuse medical treatment?

People should not oppose medical intervention that benefits society as well as themselves and then use medical intervention that only benefits themselves, and takes up a bed from someone else.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on August 26, 2021, 09:29:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 08:20:45 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 26, 2021, 07:56:19 PM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 04:31:13 PM
There's gonna be a certain amount of the population who refuse to get vaccinated. They should however just stay at home if they get ill and refuse medical intervention.

Why should they stay at home and why would anyone refuse medical treatment?

People should not oppose medical intervention that benefits society as well as themselves and then use medical intervention that only benefits themselves, and takes up a bed from someone else.

A common societal habit is smoking, I am sure smokers take up lots of medical time and money, all medical practitioners warn against smoking, should smokers be denied medical intervention that only benefits themselves, something they willingly self inflicted on themselves against all medical advice?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on August 26, 2021, 09:31:01 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 26, 2021, 08:05:53 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 26, 2021, 07:56:19 PM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 04:31:13 PM
There's gonna be a certain amount of the population who refuse to get vaccinated. They should however just stay at home if they get ill and refuse medical intervention.

Why should they stay at home and why would anyone refuse medical treatment?

No one should ever be refused medical treatment, but the anti crew were very vocal when Covid was stopping cancer treatment, transplants etc... Not quite as vocal now when these same procedures are put on hold as the ICU wards are jammed with anti-vaxers who have steadfastly refused to do their bit

Is vaccination mandatory? If not folk have a choice surely?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 09:52:11 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 26, 2021, 09:29:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 08:20:45 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 26, 2021, 07:56:19 PM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 04:31:13 PM
There's gonna be a certain amount of the population who refuse to get vaccinated. They should however just stay at home if they get ill and refuse medical intervention.

Why should they stay at home and why would anyone refuse medical treatment?

People should not oppose medical intervention that benefits society as well as themselves and then use medical intervention that only benefits themselves, and takes up a bed from someone else.

A common societal habit is smoking, I am sure smokers take up lots of medical time and money, all medical practitioners warn against smoking, should smokers be denied medical intervention that only benefits themselves, something they willingly self inflicted on themselves against all medical advice?

Id love to see the breakdown of smokers on here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on August 26, 2021, 10:28:49 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 26, 2021, 09:29:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 08:20:45 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 26, 2021, 07:56:19 PM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 04:31:13 PM
There's gonna be a certain amount of the population who refuse to get vaccinated. They should however just stay at home if they get ill and refuse medical intervention.

Why should they stay at home and why would anyone refuse medical treatment?

People should not oppose medical intervention that benefits society as well as themselves and then use medical intervention that only benefits themselves, and takes up a bed from someone else.

A common societal habit is smoking, I am sure smokers take up lots of medical time and money, all medical practitioners warn against smoking, should smokers be denied medical intervention that only benefits themselves, something they willingly self inflicted on themselves against all medical advice?

They shouldn't get free treatment on the NHS if their illness is self inflicted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 26, 2021, 10:30:55 PM
Smokers know what they are doing to themselves, but don't give a shit. Now that's an addiction
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rawhide on August 26, 2021, 10:43:34 PM
Quote from: lenny on August 26, 2021, 10:28:49 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 26, 2021, 09:29:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 08:20:45 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 26, 2021, 07:56:19 PM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 04:31:13 PM
There's gonna be a certain amount of the population who refuse to get vaccinated. They should however just stay at home if they get ill and refuse medical intervention.

Why should they stay at home and why would anyone refuse medical treatment?

People should not oppose medical intervention that benefits society as well as themselves and then use medical intervention that only benefits themselves, and takes up a bed from someone else.

A common societal habit is smoking, I am sure smokers take up lots of medical time and money, all medical practitioners warn against smoking, should smokers be denied medical intervention that only benefits themselves, something they willingly self inflicted on themselves against all medical advice?

They shouldn't get free treatment on the NHS if their illness is self inflicted.

What an utterly idiotic argument you are all making. Hitler would live you guys. What next the obese folk from eating, anorexia, drug addiction people who end up with copd due to the work they did. Ffs listen to yourselves
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 11:09:14 PM
Quote from: Rawhide on August 26, 2021, 10:43:34 PM
What an utterly idiotic argument you are all making. Hitler would live you guys. What next the obese folk from eating, anorexia, drug addiction people who end up with copd due to the work they did. Ffs listen to yourselves

These illnesses harm the person concerned, their actions do not have implications for others, as failing to get a vaccination does.
Will you listen to yourself or perhaps engage brain before posting?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 26, 2021, 11:25:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 11:09:14 PM
Quote from: Rawhide on August 26, 2021, 10:43:34 PM
What an utterly idiotic argument you are all making. Hitler would live you guys. What next the obese folk from eating, anorexia, drug addiction people who end up with copd due to the work they did. Ffs listen to yourselves

These illnesses harm the person concerned, their actions do not have implications for others, as failing to get a vaccination does.
Will you listen to yourself or perhaps engage brain before posting?

We are paying for them but,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rawhide on August 26, 2021, 11:30:43 PM
You do realise when your vaccinated you can equally pass on the virus. Its also recognised the vaccine only treats one strain, it won't treat the new variants. Protect the old, the obese and folk with underlying conditions, after that 99.9% of the population will be grand.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 11:38:08 PM
Quote from: Rawhide on August 26, 2021, 11:30:43 PM
You do realise when your vaccinated you can equally pass on the virus.

You do not "equally" pass on the virus when vaccinated because you are less likely to be infected.

QuoteIts also recognised the vaccine only treats one strain, it won't treat the new variants. Protect the old, the obese and folk with underlying conditions, after that 99.9% of the population will be grand.

Recognised by whom, Gemma O'Doherty? The vaccine is effective against all variants, although slightly less effective against some than others. The best way to protect the old is to ensure that those they come into contact with are vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:50:25 PM
Quote from: Rawhide on August 26, 2021, 11:30:43 PM
You do realise when your vaccinated you can equally pass on the virus. Its also recognised the vaccine only treats one strain, it won't treat the new variants. Protect the old, the obese and folk with underlying conditions, after that 99.9% of the population will be grand.

If you are vaccinated you are less likely to pick it up. Therefore you are less likely to spread it.

Forbes
QuotePeople who have received both doses of a Covid-19 vaccine are half as likely to be infected with the delta coronavirus variant than those who have not been vaccinated, according to a new study led by researchers at Imperial College London, though the scientists warned a new vaccine targeting the infectious delta variant may be needed to combat concerns over vaccine efficacy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on August 27, 2021, 12:01:31 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 26, 2021, 10:30:55 PM
Smokers know what they are doing to themselves, but don't give a shit. Now that's an addiction
From the shape of some people on here it seems being stupid is an addiction.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on August 27, 2021, 01:24:26 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:50:25 PM
Quote from: Rawhide on August 26, 2021, 11:30:43 PM
You do realise when your vaccinated you can equally pass on the virus. Its also recognised the vaccine only treats one strain, it won't treat the new variants. Protect the old, the obese and folk with underlying conditions, after that 99.9% of the population will be grand.

If you are vaccinated you are less likely to pick it up. Therefore you are less likely to spread it.

Forbes
QuotePeople who have received both doses of a Covid-19 vaccine are half as likely to be infected with the delta coronavirus variant than those who have not been vaccinated, according to a new study led by researchers at Imperial College London, though the scientists warned a new vaccine targeting the infectious delta variant may be needed to combat concerns over vaccine efficacy.
"According to new study"  has very little currency. I said from the outset when people were clinging to vaccination immunity myths, that the vaccination method compares poorly to acquired immunity. Vaccine immunity does not last long and fares poorly in adapting to variants.
Naturally acquired immunity is the gold standard, it's life long and adapts much better, in part  or full, to variants.
People now are jumping onboard the idea of the 3rd vaccine booster as if it is a scientific truth. It's still a theory to be updated when more is known. What is not  known is why some people are susceptible to the virus, get very sick and what can help them. Israeli medics are keen on the effectiveness of an interesting and very cheap medication to effectively assist susceptible  covid infected patients, meanwhile the drug companies are peddling a very expensive and complicated treatment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 27, 2021, 03:27:00 AM
Quote from: lenny on August 26, 2021, 10:28:49 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 26, 2021, 09:29:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 08:20:45 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 26, 2021, 07:56:19 PM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 04:31:13 PM
There's gonna be a certain amount of the population who refuse to get vaccinated. They should however just stay at home if they get ill and refuse medical intervention.

Why should they stay at home and why would anyone refuse medical treatment?

People should not oppose medical intervention that benefits society as well as themselves and then use medical intervention that only benefits themselves, and takes up a bed from someone else.

A common societal habit is smoking, I am sure smokers take up lots of medical time and money, all medical practitioners warn against smoking, should smokers be denied medical intervention that only benefits themselves, something they willingly self inflicted on themselves against all medical advice?

They shouldn't get free treatment on the NHS if their illness is self inflicted.

That idea is gaining credence here in the US at least.  Higher premiums on employer-provided health insurance for the unvaccinated.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/26/business/delta-insurance-fee-unvaccinated.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/26/business/delta-insurance-fee-unvaccinated.html)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on August 27, 2021, 03:46:15 AM
Quote from: Rawhide on August 26, 2021, 11:30:43 PM
You do realise when your vaccinated you can equally pass on the virus. Its also recognised the vaccine only treats one strain, it won't treat the new variants. Protect the old, the obese and folk with underlying conditions, after that 99.9% of the population will be grand.

absolutely do not protect the obese, that is ridiculous  ::)

your grammar is almost as bad as that suggestion  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on August 27, 2021, 07:19:20 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 27, 2021, 01:24:26 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:50:25 PM
Quote from: Rawhide on August 26, 2021, 11:30:43 PM
You do realise when your vaccinated you can equally pass on the virus. Its also recognised the vaccine only treats one strain, it won't treat the new variants. Protect the old, the obese and folk with underlying conditions, after that 99.9% of the population will be grand.

If you are vaccinated you are less likely to pick it up. Therefore you are less likely to spread it.

Forbes
QuotePeople who have received both doses of a Covid-19 vaccine are half as likely to be infected with the delta coronavirus variant than those who have not been vaccinated, according to a new study led by researchers at Imperial College London, though the scientists warned a new vaccine targeting the infectious delta variant may be needed to combat concerns over vaccine efficacy.
"According to new study"  has very little currency. I said from the outset when people were clinging to vaccination immunity myths, that the vaccination method compares poorly to acquired immunity. Vaccine immunity does not last long and fares poorly in adapting to variants.
Naturally acquired immunity is the gold standard, it's life long and adapts much better, in part  or full, to variants.
People now are jumping onboard the idea of the 3rd vaccine booster as if it is a scientific truth. It's still a theory to be updated when more is known. What is not  known is why some people are susceptible to the virus, get very sick and what can help them. Israeli medics are keen on the effectiveness of an interesting and very cheap medication to effectively assist susceptible  covid infected patients, meanwhile the drug companies are peddling a very expensive and complicated treatment.

You're talking absolute rubbish. If a person gets infected their immunity lasts only a few months, I know several people who've been infected twice. It also doesn't protect against other strains. Any virologist or epidemiologist will say that you get much more widespread and long lasting protection from the vaccines. The vaccines have done a brilliant job so far and the vast, vast majority of vaccinated people are protected against serious illness or symptoms from anyof the variants which have emerged so far.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 27, 2021, 07:44:48 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 27, 2021, 01:24:26 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2021, 11:50:25 PM
Quote from: Rawhide on August 26, 2021, 11:30:43 PM
You do realise when your vaccinated you can equally pass on the virus. Its also recognised the vaccine only treats one strain, it won't treat the new variants. Protect the old, the obese and folk with underlying conditions, after that 99.9% of the population will be grand.

If you are vaccinated you are less likely to pick it up. Therefore you are less likely to spread it.

Forbes
QuotePeople who have received both doses of a Covid-19 vaccine are half as likely to be infected with the delta coronavirus variant than those who have not been vaccinated, according to a new study led by researchers at Imperial College London, though the scientists warned a new vaccine targeting the infectious delta variant may be needed to combat concerns over vaccine efficacy.
"According to new study"  has very little currency. I said from the outset when people were clinging to vaccination immunity myths, that the vaccination method compares poorly to acquired immunity. Vaccine immunity does not last long and fares poorly in adapting to variants.
Naturally acquired immunity is the gold standard, it's life long and adapts much better, in part  or full, to variants.
People now are jumping onboard the idea of the 3rd vaccine booster as if it is a scientific truth. It's still a theory to be updated when more is known. What is not  known is why some people are susceptible to the virus, get very sick and what can help them. Israeli medics are keen on the effectiveness of an interesting and very cheap medication to effectively assist susceptible  covid infected patients, meanwhile the drug companies are peddling a very expensive and complicated treatment.

No offence, but a new study from the Imperial College in London carries more weight for me than "Main Street's always said".

No one was discussing the issue with natural vs vaccine debate. The problem and risk with aquiring natural immunity is a big issue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on August 27, 2021, 08:06:20 AM
Quote from: lenny on August 26, 2021, 10:28:49 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 26, 2021, 09:29:00 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 08:20:45 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 26, 2021, 07:56:19 PM
Quote from: Cobra on August 26, 2021, 04:31:13 PM
There's gonna be a certain amount of the population who refuse to get vaccinated. They should however just stay at home if they get ill and refuse medical intervention.

Why should they stay at home and why would anyone refuse medical treatment?

People should not oppose medical intervention that benefits society as well as themselves and then use medical intervention that only benefits themselves, and takes up a bed from someone else.

A common societal habit is smoking, I am sure smokers take up lots of medical time and money, all medical practitioners warn against smoking, should smokers be denied medical intervention that only benefits themselves, something they willingly self inflicted on themselves against all medical advice?

They shouldn't get free treatment on the NHS if their illness is self inflicted.

Who draws up the criteria off self inflicted, what about extreme sports, drunken injuries, illness relating to obesity, drug related illnesses, the list goes on?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on August 27, 2021, 08:10:13 AM
Quote from: Rawhide on August 26, 2021, 11:30:43 PM
You do realise when your vaccinated you can equally pass on the virus. Its also recognised the vaccine only treats one strain, it won't treat the new variants. Protect the old, the obese and folk with underlying conditions, after that 99.9% of the population will be grand.

Not you specifically Rawhide, but when I read posts like these at this stage of proceedings, I realise we'll not be out of this for a long long time. The amount of misinformation floating around as a fact is absolutely staggering. Without social media, vaccine uptake would probably have been at MMR levels and we'd be pretty much there now. When you've grifters monetising the situation and the right wing all doing their thing, it's a case of round and round we go
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on August 27, 2021, 08:11:05 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 26, 2021, 11:09:14 PM
Quote from: Rawhide on August 26, 2021, 10:43:34 PM
What an utterly idiotic argument you are all making. Hitler would live you guys. What next the obese folk from eating, anorexia, drug addiction people who end up with copd due to the work they did. Ffs listen to yourselves

These illnesses harm the person concerned, their actions do not have implications for others, as failing to get a vaccination does.
Will you listen to yourself or perhaps engage brain before posting?

They take up beds, a drunken person coming into A&E I have seen for myself is dealt with ahead of those there to get them off site as quickly as possible. So they really do have implications for everyone, how many on the North's huge waiting list are for smoking, obesity or other lifestyle choices?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 27, 2021, 08:37:29 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 27, 2021, 12:01:31 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 26, 2021, 10:30:55 PM
Smokers know what they are doing to themselves, but don't give a shit. Now that's an addiction
From the shape of some people on here it seems being stupid is an addiction.

I was nearly going to say stupid can't kill you or others but that would be stupid... Smoking is just nuts though
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on August 27, 2021, 08:40:14 AM
Keep on rocking in the free world  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cobra on August 27, 2021, 08:54:26 AM
People would scare the life out of you. The lack of intelligence is worrying.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 27, 2021, 08:58:26 AM
Yeah as much as I would be very pro vaccine I really don't think , and really hope, a road is not taken where people not taking a vaccine would be anywhere near somewhere like being refused care or be way down the pecking order for it. As some said here where do you draw the line. A & Es up and down the country are full of drunk people or people who are there on account of things like drunkenness then there is obesity, lung disease through smoking etc. It is an absolute can of worms. I don't see how it is a road you can go down at all.

I was talking to someone in HR about this too. Over here(well the EU) whether or not you have been vaccinated is personal information which you are not at liberty to disclose to the likes of employers. In the states people who haven't had vaccines, in certain companies, are banned from offices but aren't allowed to WFH. You go into very murky ground there because they could end up losing their job through this choice. That , for me, is too far.

(That being said some of the anti vaccine arguments on here - well tbh one in particular - is real tin foil hat stuff. I actually do get why some people would be averse to it for risk reasons etc but the whole control thing, part of the plan, the booster was how it was always going to be etc etc is bonkers.)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 27, 2021, 09:28:31 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 27, 2021, 08:10:13 AM
Quote from: Rawhide on August 26, 2021, 11:30:43 PM
You do realise when your vaccinated you can equally pass on the virus. Its also recognised the vaccine only treats one strain, it won't treat the new variants. Protect the old, the obese and folk with underlying conditions, after that 99.9% of the population will be grand.

Not you specifically Rawhide, but when I read posts like these at this stage of proceedings, I realise we'll not be out of this for a long long time. The amount of misinformation floating around as a fact is absolutely staggering. Without social media, vaccine uptake would probably have been at MMR levels and we'd be pretty much there now. When you've grifters monetising the situation and the right wing all doing their thing, it's a case of round and round we go

Worse of all the authorities totally messing around the message to pregnant women, sadly we have seen the results of that in recent days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 27, 2021, 09:31:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 27, 2021, 08:37:29 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 27, 2021, 12:01:31 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 26, 2021, 10:30:55 PM
Smokers know what they are doing to themselves, but don't give a shit. Now that's an addiction
From the shape of some people on here it seems being stupid is an addiction.

I was nearly going to say stupid can't kill you or others but that would be stupid... Smoking is just nuts though

Its ok they don't affect the rest of us apparently, we treat them for free and they dont put any pressure on the health service
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 27, 2021, 09:38:32 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 27, 2021, 09:28:31 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 27, 2021, 08:10:13 AM
Quote from: Rawhide on August 26, 2021, 11:30:43 PM
You do realise when your vaccinated you can equally pass on the virus. Its also recognised the vaccine only treats one strain, it won't treat the new variants. Protect the old, the obese and folk with underlying conditions, after that 99.9% of the population will be grand.

Not you specifically Rawhide, but when I read posts like these at this stage of proceedings, I realise we'll not be out of this for a long long time. The amount of misinformation floating around as a fact is absolutely staggering. Without social media, vaccine uptake would probably have been at MMR levels and we'd be pretty much there now. When you've grifters monetising the situation and the right wing all doing their thing, it's a case of round and round we go

Worse of all the authorities totally messing around the message to pregnant women, sadly we have seen the results of that in recent days.

But was this not more of a case that the medical authorities were waiting on more data from this grouping before giving the go ahead. It's obviously a niche subset so volume of data would take longer to come through than general groupings. I think that is very different from pedalling misinformation.

That said, how this message was delivered could have been better.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on August 27, 2021, 10:26:10 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 27, 2021, 09:38:32 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 27, 2021, 09:28:31 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 27, 2021, 08:10:13 AM
Quote from: Rawhide on August 26, 2021, 11:30:43 PM
You do realise when your vaccinated you can equally pass on the virus. Its also recognised the vaccine only treats one strain, it won't treat the new variants. Protect the old, the obese and folk with underlying conditions, after that 99.9% of the population will be grand.

Not you specifically Rawhide, but when I read posts like these at this stage of proceedings, I realise we'll not be out of this for a long long time. The amount of misinformation floating around as a fact is absolutely staggering. Without social media, vaccine uptake would probably have been at MMR levels and we'd be pretty much there now. When you've grifters monetising the situation and the right wing all doing their thing, it's a case of round and round we go

Worse of all the authorities totally messing around the message to pregnant women, sadly we have seen the results of that in recent days.

But was this not more of a case that the medical authorities were waiting on more data from this grouping before giving the go ahead. It's obviously a niche subset so volume of data would take longer to come through than general groupings. I think that is very different from pedalling misinformation.

That said, how this message was delivered could have been better.
Agree totally, caution around any medication in pregnancy is totally valid (thalidomide lesson) .
Earlier on in vaccination programme , there wasn't enough data to be sure the benefit of vaccination outweighed the potential risk of vaccination in pregnant women,  now with delta and hospital admissions of pregnant women, the scales have been tipped.
One of the lessons of this pandemic is that the scientific evidence is ever evolving , the scientists "at the top"  must make sure any decisions they make are based on best quality evidence. They are not winging it, and the thought that they have any other agenda, other than the long term health of the population is a totally incredible conspiracy theory with no quality evidence to back it up.
What really annoys me about this age of social media is that loaded anecdotes, urban myths, and attention grabbers can get their message across too easily.
Let's adhere to ever evolving scientific evidence, it's imperfect but has probably saved millions of lives to date ( Covid hygiene, distancing , vaccines and treatments.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 27, 2021, 10:57:11 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 27, 2021, 09:31:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 27, 2021, 08:37:29 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 27, 2021, 12:01:31 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 26, 2021, 10:30:55 PM
Smokers know what they are doing to themselves, but don't give a shit. Now that's an addiction
From the shape of some people on here it seems being stupid is an addiction.

I was nearly going to say stupid can't kill you or others but that would be stupid... Smoking is just nuts though

Its ok they don't affect the rest of us apparently, we treat them for free and they dont put any pressure on the health service

Smokers have been restricted in indoor public buildings, buses etc from damaging other people. the unvaxxed should be regrarded in the same way, as long as they stay outdoors they can go where they want.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 27, 2021, 11:05:13 AM
Smokers and obese people are clogging up our health systems more than anyone, we should totally ban smoking as a first and heavily tax fast food whilst making healthy food more affordable.

Anti-veggies and anti-healthy lungers are like an anchor around all our necks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on August 27, 2021, 05:08:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 27, 2021, 10:57:11 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 27, 2021, 09:31:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 27, 2021, 08:37:29 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 27, 2021, 12:01:31 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 26, 2021, 10:30:55 PM
Smokers know what they are doing to themselves, but don't give a shit. Now that's an addiction
From the shape of some people on here it seems being stupid is an addiction.

I was nearly going to say stupid can't kill you or others but that would be stupid... Smoking is just nuts though

Its ok they don't affect the rest of us apparently, we treat them for free and they dont put any pressure on the health service

Smokers have been restricted in indoor public buildings, buses etc from damaging other people. the unvaxxed should be regrarded in the same way, as long as they stay outdoors they can go where they want.

Would that be a global philosophy? Should the vaccinated folk have an unremovable egg timer doing a countdown of when their particular brand is waning and should they be treated the same if they don't get a booster, if every single person over 16 or 12 in some countries are getting these and then boosters at some stage they are going to have to charge surely, there is another conundrum !
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on August 27, 2021, 05:21:16 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 27, 2021, 05:08:34 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 27, 2021, 10:57:11 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 27, 2021, 09:31:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 27, 2021, 08:37:29 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 27, 2021, 12:01:31 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 26, 2021, 10:30:55 PM
Smokers know what they are doing to themselves, but don't give a shit. Now that's an addiction
From the shape of some people on here it seems being stupid is an addiction.

I was nearly going to say stupid can't kill you or others but that would be stupid... Smoking is just nuts though

Its ok they don't affect the rest of us apparently, we treat them for free and they dont put any pressure on the health service

Smokers have been restricted in indoor public buildings, buses etc from damaging other people. the unvaxxed should be regrarded in the same way, as long as they stay outdoors they can go where they want.

Would that be a global philosophy? Should the vaccinated folk have an unremovable egg timer doing a countdown of when their particular brand is waning and should they be treated the same if they don't get a booster, if every single person over 16 or 12 in some countries are getting these and then boosters at some stage they are going to have to charge surely, there is another conundrum !

The vaccination waning levels are quite low and most scientists believe you'll still be well protected for a long time. Also let's be clear, the vaccines do not just give protection to one strain of the virus, they give very good protection against all strains.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 27, 2021, 10:23:49 PM
Twitter thread appeared on my timeline from some awake in Belfast account. So this person was speculating and saying some big secret about that 35 year old new mother who died in altnagelvin. You read the thread and some are even speculating she is not dead. What the f**k is wrong with people. One person replied that the husband didn't look that upset so no surprise. Seriously >:(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 27, 2021, 10:46:49 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 27, 2021, 10:23:49 PM
Twitter thread appeared on my timeline from some awake in Belfast account. So this person was speculating and saying some big secret about that 35 year old new mother who died in altnagelvin. You read the thread and some are even speculating she is not dead. What the f**k is wrong with people. One person replied that the husband didn't look that upset so no surprise. Seriously >:(

Probably some arsehole from on here!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 27, 2021, 10:55:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 27, 2021, 10:46:49 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 27, 2021, 10:23:49 PM
Twitter thread appeared on my timeline from some awake in Belfast account. So this person was speculating and saying some big secret about that 35 year old new mother who died in altnagelvin. You read the thread and some are even speculating she is not dead. What the f**k is wrong with people. One person replied that the husband didn't look that upset so no surprise. Seriously >:(

Probably some arsehole from on here!!

Belfast . Explains it all lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 28, 2021, 05:17:15 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 27, 2021, 08:58:26 AM
Yeah as much as I would be very pro vaccine I really don't think , and really hope, a road is not taken where people not taking a vaccine would be anywhere near somewhere like being refused care or be way down the pecking order for it. As some said here where do you draw the line. A & Es up and down the country are full of drunk people or people who are there on account of things like drunkenness then there is obesity, lung disease through smoking etc. It is an absolute can of worms. I don't see how it is a road you can go down at all.

I was talking to someone in HR about this too. Over here(well the EU) whether or not you have been vaccinated is personal information which you are not at liberty to disclose to the likes of employers. In the states people who haven't had vaccines, in certain companies, are banned from offices but aren't allowed to WFH. You go into very murky ground there because they could end up losing their job through this choice. That , for me, is too far.

(That being said some of the anti vaccine arguments on here - well tbh one in particular - is real tin foil hat stuff. I actually do get why some people would be averse to it for risk reasons etc but the whole control thing, part of the plan, the booster was how it was always going to be etc etc is bonkers.)

Why is that too far?

My employer, a large NY institution, is one of those companies. As of next week, we all have to be fully vaccinated or have had a religious or medical exemption approved by a committee. As of a couple of weeks ago, they were up to 95% vaccinated. The intention was to drop all Covid restrictions in the workplace as full on-site participation resumed (I've been back on site myself for a year), but the Delta surge has postponed the compete roll-back, for now.

My kids have to be up to date on childhood vaccines to attend public school. Very few outside of the MMR/autism crowd and the christian HPV vaccine=license-to-have-sex lunatics have previously raised any objections to mandated vaccines in the states.

I toyed with teaching kids myself for a brief period. Part of the employment conditions for that were up to date vaccines and boosters. No vaccinations, no job.

Why this is all suddenly a "freedom" issue is beyond me.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on August 28, 2021, 10:05:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 28, 2021, 05:17:15 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 27, 2021, 08:58:26 AM
Yeah as much as I would be very pro vaccine I really don't think , and really hope, a road is not taken where people not taking a vaccine would be anywhere near somewhere like being refused care or be way down the pecking order for it. As some said here where do you draw the line. A & Es up and down the country are full of drunk people or people who are there on account of things like drunkenness then there is obesity, lung disease through smoking etc. It is an absolute can of worms. I don't see how it is a road you can go down at all.

I was talking to someone in HR about this too. Over here(well the EU) whether or not you have been vaccinated is personal information which you are not at liberty to disclose to the likes of employers. In the states people who haven't had vaccines, in certain companies, are banned from offices but aren't allowed to WFH. You go into very murky ground there because they could end up losing their job through this choice. That , for me, is too far.

(That being said some of the anti vaccine arguments on here - well tbh one in particular - is real tin foil hat stuff. I actually do get why some people would be averse to it for risk reasons etc but the whole control thing, part of the plan, the booster was how it was always going to be etc etc is bonkers.)

Why is that too far?

My employer, a large NY institution, is one of those companies. As of next week, we all have to be fully vaccinated or have had a religious or medical exemption approved by a committee. As of a couple of weeks ago, they were up to 95% vaccinated. The intention was to drop all Covid restrictions in the workplace as full on-site participation resumed (I've been back on site myself for a year), but the Delta surge has postponed the compete roll-back, for now.

My kids have to be up to date on childhood vaccines to attend public school. Very few outside of the MMR/autism crowd and the christian HPV vaccine=license-to-have-sex lunatics have previously raised any objections to mandated vaccines in the states.

I toyed with teaching kids myself for a brief period. Part of the employment conditions for that were up to date vaccines and boosters. No vaccinations, no job.

Why this is all suddenly a "freedom" issue is beyond me.

Forced vaccination or lose your job, no ability to work from home, jab or out - I would say that is a tad too far. There are risks with any foreign substance entering the body, you need to get off the gravy train lambasting those who have genuine concerns versus those who think the whole thing is pie in the sky with mad ideas like we are all being chipped. Statistics like this however small https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting) can scare many folk, maybe employers should be trying to educate rather than bully folk, maybe people like yourself should do the same.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 28, 2021, 12:03:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 28, 2021, 05:17:15 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 27, 2021, 08:58:26 AM
Yeah as much as I would be very pro vaccine I really don't think , and really hope, a road is not taken where people not taking a vaccine would be anywhere near somewhere like being refused care or be way down the pecking order for it. As some said here where do you draw the line. A & Es up and down the country are full of drunk people or people who are there on account of things like drunkenness then there is obesity, lung disease through smoking etc. It is an absolute can of worms. I don't see how it is a road you can go down at all.

I was talking to someone in HR about this too. Over here(well the EU) whether or not you have been vaccinated is personal information which you are not at liberty to disclose to the likes of employers. In the states people who haven't had vaccines, in certain companies, are banned from offices but aren't allowed to WFH. You go into very murky ground there because they could end up losing their job through this choice. That , for me, is too far.

(That being said some of the anti vaccine arguments on here - well tbh one in particular - is real tin foil hat stuff. I actually do get why some people would be averse to it for risk reasons etc but the whole control thing, part of the plan, the booster was how it was always going to be etc etc is bonkers.)

Why is that too far?

My employer, a large NY institution, is one of those companies. As of next week, we all have to be fully vaccinated or have had a religious or medical exemption approved by a committee. As of a couple of weeks ago, they were up to 95% vaccinated. The intention was to drop all Covid restrictions in the workplace as full on-site participation resumed (I've been back on site myself for a year), but the Delta surge has postponed the compete roll-back, for now.

My kids have to be up to date on childhood vaccines to attend public school. Very few outside of the MMR/autism crowd and the christian HPV vaccine=license-to-have-sex lunatics have previously raised any objections to mandated vaccines in the states.

I toyed with teaching kids myself for a brief period. Part of the employment conditions for that were up to date vaccines and boosters. No vaccinations, no job.

Why this is all suddenly a "freedom" issue is beyond me.

I stopped reading it at NY
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 28, 2021, 12:09:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 28, 2021, 05:17:15 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 27, 2021, 08:58:26 AM
Yeah as much as I would be very pro vaccine I really don't think , and really hope, a road is not taken where people not taking a vaccine would be anywhere near somewhere like being refused care or be way down the pecking order for it. As some said here where do you draw the line. A & Es up and down the country are full of drunk people or people who are there on account of things like drunkenness then there is obesity, lung disease through smoking etc. It is an absolute can of worms. I don't see how it is a road you can go down at all.

I was talking to someone in HR about this too. Over here(well the EU) whether or not you have been vaccinated is personal information which you are not at liberty to disclose to the likes of employers. In the states people who haven't had vaccines, in certain companies, are banned from offices but aren't allowed to WFH. You go into very murky ground there because they could end up losing their job through this choice. That , for me, is too far.

(That being said some of the anti vaccine arguments on here - well tbh one in particular - is real tin foil hat stuff. I actually do get why some people would be averse to it for risk reasons etc but the whole control thing, part of the plan, the booster was how it was always going to be etc etc is bonkers.)

Why is that too far?

My employer, a large NY institution, is one of those companies. As of next week, we all have to be fully vaccinated or have had a religious or medical exemption approved by a committee. As of a couple of weeks ago, they were up to 95% vaccinated. The intention was to drop all Covid restrictions in the workplace as full on-site participation resumed (I've been back on site myself for a year), but the Delta surge has postponed the compete roll-back, for now.

My kids have to be up to date on childhood vaccines to attend public school. Very few outside of the MMR/autism crowd and the christian HPV vaccine=license-to-have-sex lunatics have previously raised any objections to mandated vaccines in the states.

I toyed with teaching kids myself for a brief period. Part of the employment conditions for that were up to date vaccines and boosters. No vaccinations, no job.

Why this is all suddenly a "freedom" issue is beyond me.

Manage something with testing of people. Losing your job etc on this is too far.

That being said people with bat shit crazy theories on it should wear a bell and a tin foil hat ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 28, 2021, 12:40:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 28, 2021, 12:03:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 28, 2021, 05:17:15 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 27, 2021, 08:58:26 AM
Yeah as much as I would be very pro vaccine I really don't think , and really hope, a road is not taken where people not taking a vaccine would be anywhere near somewhere like being refused care or be way down the pecking order for it. As some said here where do you draw the line. A & Es up and down the country are full of drunk people or people who are there on account of things like drunkenness then there is obesity, lung disease through smoking etc. It is an absolute can of worms. I don't see how it is a road you can go down at all.

I was talking to someone in HR about this too. Over here(well the EU) whether or not you have been vaccinated is personal information which you are not at liberty to disclose to the likes of employers. In the states people who haven't had vaccines, in certain companies, are banned from offices but aren't allowed to WFH. You go into very murky ground there because they could end up losing their job through this choice. That , for me, is too far.

(That being said some of the anti vaccine arguments on here - well tbh one in particular - is real tin foil hat stuff. I actually do get why some people would be averse to it for risk reasons etc but the whole control thing, part of the plan, the booster was how it was always going to be etc etc is bonkers.)

Why is that too far?

My employer, a large NY institution, is one of those companies. As of next week, we all have to be fully vaccinated or have had a religious or medical exemption approved by a committee. As of a couple of weeks ago, they were up to 95% vaccinated. The intention was to drop all Covid restrictions in the workplace as full on-site participation resumed (I've been back on site myself for a year), but the Delta surge has postponed the compete roll-back, for now.

My kids have to be up to date on childhood vaccines to attend public school. Very few outside of the MMR/autism crowd and the christian HPV vaccine=license-to-have-sex lunatics have previously raised any objections to mandated vaccines in the states.

I toyed with teaching kids myself for a brief period. Part of the employment conditions for that were up to date vaccines and boosters. No vaccinations, no job.

Why this is all suddenly a "freedom" issue is beyond me.

I stopped reading it at NY

Good for you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 28, 2021, 12:53:23 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 28, 2021, 10:05:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 28, 2021, 05:17:15 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 27, 2021, 08:58:26 AM
Yeah as much as I would be very pro vaccine I really don't think , and really hope, a road is not taken where people not taking a vaccine would be anywhere near somewhere like being refused care or be way down the pecking order for it. As some said here where do you draw the line. A & Es up and down the country are full of drunk people or people who are there on account of things like drunkenness then there is obesity, lung disease through smoking etc. It is an absolute can of worms. I don't see how it is a road you can go down at all.

I was talking to someone in HR about this too. Over here(well the EU) whether or not you have been vaccinated is personal information which you are not at liberty to disclose to the likes of employers. In the states people who haven't had vaccines, in certain companies, are banned from offices but aren't allowed to WFH. You go into very murky ground there because they could end up losing their job through this choice. That , for me, is too far.

(That being said some of the anti vaccine arguments on here - well tbh one in particular - is real tin foil hat stuff. I actually do get why some people would be averse to it for risk reasons etc but the whole control thing, part of the plan, the booster was how it was always going to be etc etc is bonkers.)

Why is that too far?

My employer, a large NY institution, is one of those companies. As of next week, we all have to be fully vaccinated or have had a religious or medical exemption approved by a committee. As of a couple of weeks ago, they were up to 95% vaccinated. The intention was to drop all Covid restrictions in the workplace as full on-site participation resumed (I've been back on site myself for a year), but the Delta surge has postponed the compete roll-back, for now.

My kids have to be up to date on childhood vaccines to attend public school. Very few outside of the MMR/autism crowd and the christian HPV vaccine=license-to-have-sex lunatics have previously raised any objections to mandated vaccines in the states.

I toyed with teaching kids myself for a brief period. Part of the employment conditions for that were up to date vaccines and boosters. No vaccinations, no job.

Why this is all suddenly a "freedom" issue is beyond me.

Forced vaccination or lose your job, no ability to work from home, jab or out - I would say that is a tad too far. There are risks with any foreign substance entering the body, you need to get off the gravy train lambasting those who have genuine concerns versus those who think the whole thing is pie in the sky with mad ideas like we are all being chipped. Statistics like this however small https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting) can scare many folk, maybe employers should be trying to educate rather than bully folk, maybe people like yourself should do the same.

I wasn't aware I was bullying people by raising bleeding obvious questions about the sudden change in attitudes to vaccines.

I've no idea what things are like on the ground in Ireland or wherever you are, but the US has an entire segment of the country who are caught in a closed loop of right wing lies and fantasy on covid and a bunch of other issues.

How do you educate these people when their information sources and social circles, in which they are far more invested than anything governments or employers have to say, are telling them it's all bullshit and an attack on "freedom"?

At some point when the carrot fails, the stick becomes necessary.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on August 28, 2021, 02:40:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 28, 2021, 12:53:23 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 28, 2021, 10:05:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 28, 2021, 05:17:15 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 27, 2021, 08:58:26 AM
Yeah as much as I would be very pro vaccine I really don't think , and really hope, a road is not taken where people not taking a vaccine would be anywhere near somewhere like being refused care or be way down the pecking order for it. As some said here where do you draw the line. A & Es up and down the country are full of drunk people or people who are there on account of things like drunkenness then there is obesity, lung disease through smoking etc. It is an absolute can of worms. I don't see how it is a road you can go down at all.

I was talking to someone in HR about this too. Over here(well the EU) whether or not you have been vaccinated is personal information which you are not at liberty to disclose to the likes of employers. In the states people who haven't had vaccines, in certain companies, are banned from offices but aren't allowed to WFH. You go into very murky ground there because they could end up losing their job through this choice. That , for me, is too far.

(That being said some of the anti vaccine arguments on here - well tbh one in particular - is real tin foil hat stuff. I actually do get why some people would be averse to it for risk reasons etc but the whole control thing, part of the plan, the booster was how it was always going to be etc etc is bonkers.)

Why is that too far?

My employer, a large NY institution, is one of those companies. As of next week, we all have to be fully vaccinated or have had a religious or medical exemption approved by a committee. As of a couple of weeks ago, they were up to 95% vaccinated. The intention was to drop all Covid restrictions in the workplace as full on-site participation resumed (I've been back on site myself for a year), but the Delta surge has postponed the compete roll-back, for now.

My kids have to be up to date on childhood vaccines to attend public school. Very few outside of the MMR/autism crowd and the christian HPV vaccine=license-to-have-sex lunatics have previously raised any objections to mandated vaccines in the states.

I toyed with teaching kids myself for a brief period. Part of the employment conditions for that were up to date vaccines and boosters. No vaccinations, no job.

Why this is all suddenly a "freedom" issue is beyond me.

Forced vaccination or lose your job, no ability to work from home, jab or out - I would say that is a tad too far. There are risks with any foreign substance entering the body, you need to get off the gravy train lambasting those who have genuine concerns versus those who think the whole thing is pie in the sky with mad ideas like we are all being chipped. Statistics like this however small https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting) can scare many folk, maybe employers should be trying to educate rather than bully folk, maybe people like yourself should do the same.

I wasn't aware I was bullying people by raising bleeding obvious questions about the sudden change in attitudes to vaccines.

I've no idea what things are like on the ground in Ireland or wherever you are, but the US has an entire segment of the country who are caught in a closed loop of right wing lies and fantasy on covid and a bunch of other issues.

How do you educate these people when their information sources and social circles, in which they are far more invested than anything governments or employers have to say, are telling them it's all bullshit and an attack on "freedom"?

At some point when the carrot fails, the stick becomes necessary.

I find it strange given that we have seen the most untrustworthy, deceitful, lying, sneaky British government in living memory, who have behaved like a bunch of ballbags, lining their own pockets during this pandemic. It's been one rule for them and their cronies and another rule for everyone else, non-sensical rules/lockdowns,  and being held unaccountable for their disgusting behaviour. While their propaganda machine (BBC) spews out their lies and bullshit.

Then we have the circus that is American politics, led by big business and psychopaths,  a rigged election,  the silencing of Trump. Put  all that in the mixer, and you wonder why some people have alternative views.

Yet people still believe the word of these corrupt gangsters. It truly baffles me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: CK_Redhand on August 28, 2021, 02:45:33 PM
"The silencing of Trump"?
He has had more free press than anybody in history to air his views.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 28, 2021, 03:25:08 PM
The silencing of trump my arse. What led to capitol hill? The fact nobody silenced him until it was too late. The shite he was allowed to spout should have had him indited many times over.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on August 28, 2021, 03:40:50 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 28, 2021, 03:25:08 PM
The silencing of trump my arse. What led to capitol hill? The fact nobody silenced him until it was too late. The shite he was allowed to spout should have had him indited many times over.

Was it any worse than the shite Bush spouted about Saddam and his WMD's? Or does that not count because  it was only Iraqi's who were slaughtered? Or how about blowing the shite out of a country looking for a bogeyman hiding in a cave?

Anyway, I noticed nobody addressed the main point  I was msking
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 28, 2021, 03:58:45 PM
What did you ask?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on August 28, 2021, 04:03:14 PM
 Why do folk believe corrupt politicians?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 28, 2021, 04:17:26 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 28, 2021, 04:03:14 PM
Why do folk believe corrupt politicians?

We don't. But we do believe in science.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on August 28, 2021, 05:23:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 28, 2021, 04:17:26 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 28, 2021, 04:03:14 PM
Why do folk believe corrupt politicians?

We don't. But we do believe in science.

None of which have an agenda, oh apart from those who question the narrative, they are headcases with their PHds and years of experience.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 28, 2021, 06:15:55 PM
Questioning "a narrative" is fine but it's not like quite a few questioning it are doing it through phds etc - far from it!

You asked why do people believe corrupt politicians. What about? Vaccines? So are people silly for believing in the vaccine because some corrupt politicians advocate it?

Just because you approve of the vaccine doesn't mean you are "a sheeple" and stupid. Likewise just because you don't doesn't make you stupid. It's just that things like people are out to control you etc constitute stupid reasons. It kind of depends what media you read tbh. Day in day out people are getting a vaccine and there are a smaller percentage of people who have had complications. Question is whether you take that small percentage as a big risk. Bigger problem though is people read things skewed to their beliefs so for example there will be websites that focus on nothing but vaccine complications. You have to weigh all that up. You can then read that and accuse the bbc of not publishing it even though wherever you read it is blatantly just as bad and worse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on August 28, 2021, 07:51:40 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 28, 2021, 04:03:14 PM
Why do folk believe corrupt politicians?

So you think all the politicians all around the world are corrupt? Or is just the ones in governments around the world? Why're the opposition parties around the world not kicking up a fuss then and telling the "truth"? If this was just one country we could buy this idea that politicians are corrupt. It's ridiculous to believe that countries like Russia, China, USA, Britain, Ireland, Iran etc who disagree about so many things have all got together on one issue to hoodwink their citizens.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 28, 2021, 08:20:16 PM
The coordination required by so many governments to align everything has been magnificently coordinated it has to be said ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on August 28, 2021, 10:09:55 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 28, 2021, 08:20:16 PM
The coordination required by so many governments to align everything has been magnificently coordinated it has to be said ;D

Known collectively as 'they'
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on August 28, 2021, 10:24:27 PM
Quote from: lenny on August 28, 2021, 07:51:40 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 28, 2021, 04:03:14 PM
Why do folk believe corrupt politicians?

So you think all the politicians all around the world are corrupt? Or is just the ones in governments around the world? Why're the opposition parties around the world not kicking up a fuss then and telling the "truth"? If this was just one country we could buy this idea that politicians are corrupt. It's ridiculous to believe that countries like Russia, China, USA, Britain, Ireland, Iran etc who disagree about so many things have all got together on one issue to hoodwink their citizens.
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 28, 2021, 03:58:45 PM
What did you ask?

I was answering that please keep up or stay off the sauce?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 28, 2021, 10:25:55 PM
Wasn't aimed at you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on August 28, 2021, 10:28:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 28, 2021, 10:25:55 PM
Wasn't aimed at you.

Apologies I was addressing lenny.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 28, 2021, 11:43:52 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 28, 2021, 05:23:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 28, 2021, 04:17:26 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 28, 2021, 04:03:14 PM
Why do folk believe corrupt politicians?

We don't. But we do believe in science.

None of which have an agenda, oh apart from those who question the narrative, they are headcases with their PHds and years of experience.

I'm sure there are headcases with PhDs, there are even headcases on GAABoard. They do not define science though, their papers do not get published.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 29, 2021, 12:04:38 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 28, 2021, 11:43:52 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 28, 2021, 05:23:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 28, 2021, 04:17:26 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 28, 2021, 04:03:14 PM
Why do folk believe corrupt politicians?

We don't. But we do believe in science.

None of which have an agenda, oh apart from those who question the narrative, they are headcases with their PHds and years of experience.

I'm sure there are headcases with PhDs, there are even headcases on GAABoard. They do not define science though, their papers do not get published.

Plenty of headcase scientists , history had taught us that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on August 29, 2021, 03:45:30 AM
Anyone who was saying that natural immunity was as good if not better than vaccine way shot down for most of the pandemic but now it seems to be correct. So do you need a vaccine passport if you have had covid but are not vaccinated ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on August 29, 2021, 08:32:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 28, 2021, 11:43:52 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 28, 2021, 05:23:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 28, 2021, 04:17:26 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 28, 2021, 04:03:14 PM
Why do folk believe corrupt politicians?

We don't. But we do believe in science.

None of which have an agenda, oh apart from those who question the narrative, they are headcases with their PHds and years of experience.

I'm sure there are headcases with PhDs, there are even headcases on GAABoard. They do not define science though, their papers do not get published.

It's about policy, the narrative science influenced government policy, the rest was ignored.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on August 29, 2021, 08:59:10 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 29, 2021, 03:45:30 AM
Anyone who was saying that natural immunity was as good if not better than vaccine way shot down for most of the pandemic but now it seems to be correct. So do you need a vaccine passport if you have had covid but are not vaccinated ?

from what i read that is the finding of one study of the delta variant and pfizer vaccine. it is not a catch all for all vaccines and all variants. there was another study recently from Kentucky i think i read that showed vaccine offered better protection than getting covid (not sure which variant)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 29, 2021, 12:28:50 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 29, 2021, 08:32:06 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 28, 2021, 11:43:52 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 28, 2021, 05:23:42 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 28, 2021, 04:17:26 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 28, 2021, 04:03:14 PM
Why do folk believe corrupt politicians?

We don't. But we do believe in science.

None of which have an agenda, oh apart from those who question the narrative, they are headcases with their PHds and years of experience.

I'm sure there are headcases with PhDs, there are even headcases on GAABoard. They do not define science though, their papers do not get published.

It's about policy, the narrative science influenced government policy, the rest was ignored.

Are your making an assumption that the government listened to science here? They didn't always. Also what is narrative science - is that a new kind or just science where you don't like what it says...

Narrative is a word which is overused and abused in today's society. For me all it means is I don't like what you're saying so you are clearly being influenced by someone/ something and what you say doesn't count as I don't like it ;D

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on August 29, 2021, 01:28:48 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 29, 2021, 03:45:30 AM
Anyone who was saying that natural immunity was as good if not better than vaccine way shot down for most of the pandemic but now it seems to be correct. So do you need a vaccine passport if you have had covid but are not vaccinated ?
You're just being silly.

It was known from Day 1 that getting Covid would offer some protection from getting it again.  The only question was how long would it last.

But putting yourself through Covid to obtain protection from Covid, is not a sensible approach. If it happens, it happens then so be it. But far better approach to get the vaccine. Getting the vaccine is far far less risk to your health than getting Covid. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cobra on August 29, 2021, 01:31:23 PM
Local guy here died yesterday, no vaccine. Lay on a ventilator for 2 weeks. 52/53 years old. Young family.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 29, 2021, 01:47:12 PM
Quote from: Cobra on August 29, 2021, 01:31:23 PM
Local guy here died yesterday, no vaccine. Lay on a ventilator for 2 weeks. 52/53 years old. Young family.

In the south about 4% of people in their fifties haven't got the jab, in the North it is 7.5%.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 29, 2021, 02:02:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 28, 2021, 02:40:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 28, 2021, 12:53:23 PM
Quote from: TMAC on August 28, 2021, 10:05:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 28, 2021, 05:17:15 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 27, 2021, 08:58:26 AM
Yeah as much as I would be very pro vaccine I really don't think , and really hope, a road is not taken where people not taking a vaccine would be anywhere near somewhere like being refused care or be way down the pecking order for it. As some said here where do you draw the line. A & Es up and down the country are full of drunk people or people who are there on account of things like drunkenness then there is obesity, lung disease through smoking etc. It is an absolute can of worms. I don't see how it is a road you can go down at all.

I was talking to someone in HR about this too. Over here(well the EU) whether or not you have been vaccinated is personal information which you are not at liberty to disclose to the likes of employers. In the states people who haven't had vaccines, in certain companies, are banned from offices but aren't allowed to WFH. You go into very murky ground there because they could end up losing their job through this choice. That , for me, is too far.

(That being said some of the anti vaccine arguments on here - well tbh one in particular - is real tin foil hat stuff. I actually do get why some people would be averse to it for risk reasons etc but the whole control thing, part of the plan, the booster was how it was always going to be etc etc is bonkers.)

Why is that too far?

My employer, a large NY institution, is one of those companies. As of next week, we all have to be fully vaccinated or have had a religious or medical exemption approved by a committee. As of a couple of weeks ago, they were up to 95% vaccinated. The intention was to drop all Covid restrictions in the workplace as full on-site participation resumed (I've been back on site myself for a year), but the Delta surge has postponed the compete roll-back, for now.

My kids have to be up to date on childhood vaccines to attend public school. Very few outside of the MMR/autism crowd and the christian HPV vaccine=license-to-have-sex lunatics have previously raised any objections to mandated vaccines in the states.

I toyed with teaching kids myself for a brief period. Part of the employment conditions for that were up to date vaccines and boosters. No vaccinations, no job.

Why this is all suddenly a "freedom" issue is beyond me.

Forced vaccination or lose your job, no ability to work from home, jab or out - I would say that is a tad too far. There are risks with any foreign substance entering the body, you need to get off the gravy train lambasting those who have genuine concerns versus those who think the whole thing is pie in the sky with mad ideas like we are all being chipped. Statistics like this however small https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting) can scare many folk, maybe employers should be trying to educate rather than bully folk, maybe people like yourself should do the same.

I wasn't aware I was bullying people by raising bleeding obvious questions about the sudden change in attitudes to vaccines.

I've no idea what things are like on the ground in Ireland or wherever you are, but the US has an entire segment of the country who are caught in a closed loop of right wing lies and fantasy on covid and a bunch of other issues.

How do you educate these people when their information sources and social circles, in which they are far more invested than anything governments or employers have to say, are telling them it's all bullshit and an attack on "freedom"?

At some point when the carrot fails, the stick becomes necessary.

I find it strange given that we have seen the most untrustworthy, deceitful, lying, sneaky British government in living memory, who have behaved like a bunch of ballbags, lining their own pockets during this pandemic. It's been one rule for them and their cronies and another rule for everyone else, non-sensical rules/lockdowns,  and being held unaccountable for their disgusting behaviour. While their propaganda machine (BBC) spews out their lies and bullshit.

Then we have the circus that is American politics, led by big business and psychopaths,  a rigged election,  the silencing of Trump. Put  all that in the mixer, and you wonder why some people have alternative views.

Yet people still believe the word of these corrupt gangsters. It truly baffles me.

Rigged election, the silencing of Trump?? In the same sentence you decry the "circus that is American politics "??

I know you're into your conspiracy theories Benny, but don't let us down by turning into a run-of-the-mill, bog-standard US-style reactionary right wing dullard.

Personally I'll go with the politicians who demonstrate that they're serious about science and public health, across the board. There's usually a lot of consistency from one science-related topic to another. It's a safe bet that the whack job who publicly endorses creationism, climate denialism, a complete lack of concern for environmental issues and so on is also going to be pushing ivermectin and covid denialism and vaccine "skepticism".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 29, 2021, 02:08:17 PM
If it was a rigged election anyway then in all likelihood he got in with a rigged election so him being silenced, which he blatantly wasn't, and the rigged election thing are absolute nonsense.

Do I trust Boris Johnson. Absolutely not. Do I think that the many (many many many) scientists / medical people etc etc etc who are behind the vaccine are untrustworthy? No I don't.

Sure I'll read some auld shite on the internet and that will prove otherwise... How naive of me to think otherwise...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 29, 2021, 02:19:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 29, 2021, 02:08:17 PM
If it was a rigged election anyway then in all likelihood he got in with a rigged election so him being silenced, which he blatantly wasn't, and the rigged election thing are absolute nonsense.

Do I trust Boris Johnson. Absolutely not. Do I think that the many (many many many) scientists / medical people etc etc etc who are behind the vaccine are untrustworthy? No I don't.

Sure I'll read some auld shite on the internet and that will prove otherwise... How naive of me to think otherwise...

Last sentence is key.

Can't trust the mainstream scientists and doctors because they're, presumably, bought and paid for, but the contrarian positions and views are always the better, safer alternative, no matter how half-baked or poorly supported their ideas. Because it's not the ideas or evidence themselves that matter. It's their contrarian position, which offers license to go against the consensus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 29, 2021, 02:28:15 PM
Exactly. The mainstream media are corrupt but source X which I read is absolutely balanced and not corrupt in any way shape or form  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 29, 2021, 02:37:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 29, 2021, 03:45:30 AM
Anyone who was saying that natural immunity was as good if not better than vaccine way shot down for most of the pandemic but now it seems to be correct. So do you need a vaccine passport if you have had covid but are not vaccinated ?

Assuming, for the sake of argument, post-infection immunity (if that's what you mean) is better, what, exactly, was shot down?

That idea itself, or the proposition that letting everyone get infected so that we could strive for natural herd immunity was better than restrictions and then a vaccination program.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 29, 2021, 02:49:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 29, 2021, 02:28:15 PM
Exactly. The mainstream media are corrupt but source X which I read is absolutely balanced and not corrupt in any way shape or form  :o

You get the same nonsense with climate change coverage.

All the mainstream climatologists are corrupt and fabricating data so that their funding can be sustained, but the lone skeptics are never looked at to see where THEIR funding comes from. Because corporations and political interests such as oil companies have zero interest in the climate change debate.

Of course, these idiots seem to be completely unaware that science works by falsification, it is hypercompetitive, and that the greatest and most famous scientists in history are the ones who turned their fields upside down with revolutionary advances and paradigm shifts. And especially in this day and age, the peer review process is not going to hold back research and data which calls the consensus into question. The science goes where the data leads. Once enough of it is accumulated and published, the field will follow.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 29, 2021, 04:29:34 PM
ROI weekly update. Another week of plateauing in case numbers. Increase in hospital figures continues but much smaller than the week before.

12,658 cases (14 more than last week)
In hospital 347 (33 more than last Sunday)
In ICU 60 ( an increase of 1)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on August 31, 2021, 06:38:20 PM
For the ROI From tomorrow

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/73a24-public-health-measures-that-will-come-into-place-in-september/


From October 22nd

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/83946-public-health-measures-that-will-come-into-place-in-october/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 01, 2021, 11:43:56 AM
No comment necessary

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/revealed-the-counties-with-worst-and-best-vaccine-take-up-40807302.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on September 01, 2021, 11:51:31 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 01, 2021, 11:43:56 AM
No comment necessary

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/revealed-the-counties-with-worst-and-best-vaccine-take-up-40807302.html

Public health officials in the US would be creaming themselves if they'd vaccination numbers anywhere near those!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 05, 2021, 08:29:53 PM

ROI weekly update. Lowest weekly case number in 5 weeks. Interesting week ahead as the return to schools should factor in.

Cases 10512 ( 2146 fewer than last week)
In hospital 362 (15 more than a week ago)
in ICU 59 ( 1 fewer than last Sunday)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on September 05, 2021, 08:37:11 PM
Madness in the Brazil/Argentina WC qualifier

https://twitter.com/Liam__whu/status/1434596993523986441

QuoteThe moment ANVISA personnel and Brazilian Federal Police walked on to the pitch during the Argentina vs Brazil match and stopped the game to detain the 4 Premier League Argentinian players who lied to enter the country and play the game.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cobra on September 06, 2021, 09:48:57 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 05, 2021, 08:37:11 PM
Madness in the Brazil/Argentina WC qualifier

https://twitter.com/Liam__whu/status/1434596993523986441

QuoteThe moment ANVISA personnel and Brazilian Federal Police walked on to the pitch during the Argentina vs Brazil match and stopped the game to detain the 4 Premier League Argentinian players who lied to enter the country and play the game.

It's crazy trying to play international football matches given the different restrictions in different countries.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on September 06, 2021, 01:58:58 PM
Surely surely surely Leo can't justify keeping nightclubs closed and events operating below capacity now that he's been caught at a festival in the UK?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on September 06, 2021, 02:02:31 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 06, 2021, 01:58:58 PM
Surely surely surely Leo can't justify keeping nightclubs closed and events operating below capacity now that he's been caught at a festival in the UK?

Ha! Just you watch.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 06, 2021, 03:05:06 PM
It would have no relevance to night clubs tbh but with events I think we all know by now how full of shift Leo is anyway. Restrictions and the lack of consistency on them for events in the south are a bit ridiculous tbh.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on September 06, 2021, 03:08:52 PM
Coronavirus: More than half of Larne High School pupils out of class

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58461525

I think that Principal needs to catch himself on to be perfectly honest
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 06, 2021, 03:11:42 PM
Is that down to him or the "rules" though?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 06, 2021, 03:17:18 PM
It seems that schools are going to operate under a "to the nth degree" policy this time around. Entire year groups already sent home in newry.

Which is great for the schools, but is an absolute mess for everyone else.

I've got a feeling there's an underlying driver behind this. I'm expecting schools/teachers to respond to the soon to be mounting pressure of parents and politicians to be less vigilant, with a full scale strike. Which of course payrise would fix.

Maybe I'm adding 2 and 2 together and getting red. But they're definitely playing it differently this time around.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 06, 2021, 03:21:28 PM
Absolute sh%t show for wains
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on September 06, 2021, 03:30:31 PM
I have missed hysterical teacher season in fairness
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 06, 2021, 04:09:54 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on September 06, 2021, 03:30:31 PM
I have missed hysterical teacher season in fairness

Give them a few weeks to cope with the wine withdrawal
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cobra on September 06, 2021, 04:16:18 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 06, 2021, 03:08:52 PM
Coronavirus: More than half of Larne High School pupils out of class

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58461525

I think that Principal needs to catch himself on to be perfectly honest

Ridiculous. Absolutely f**king ridiculous.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 06, 2021, 04:54:14 PM
Sending home people to be tested is all you can do. If this doesn't suit the government than they can speed up testing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on September 06, 2021, 04:55:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 06, 2021, 04:09:54 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on September 06, 2021, 03:30:31 PM
I have missed hysterical teacher season in fairness

Give them a few weeks to cope with the wine withdrawal

;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 06, 2021, 06:10:28 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 06, 2021, 04:16:18 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 06, 2021, 03:08:52 PM
Coronavirus: More than half of Larne High School pupils out of class

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58461525

I think that Principal needs to catch himself on to be perfectly honest

Ridiculous. Absolutely f**king ridiculous.

Teachers and GP's have been the biggest piss takers throughout all this, just watch the 6 OClock news and principals are ignoring PHA and telling any child who is a close contact to isolate for 10 days, there will be no one at school by the end of the month.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 06, 2021, 06:18:51 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 06, 2021, 03:17:18 PM
It seems that schools are going to operate under a "to the nth degree" policy this time around. Entire year groups already sent home in newry.

Which is great for the schools, but is an absolute mess for everyone else.

I've got a feeling there's an underlying driver behind this. I'm expecting schools/teachers to respond to the soon to be mounting pressure of parents and politicians to be less vigilant, with a full scale strike. Which of course payrise would fix.

Maybe I'm adding 2 and 2 together and getting red. But they're definitely playing it differently this time around.

Bless them they sure do deserve a payrise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on September 06, 2021, 07:04:43 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 06, 2021, 06:18:51 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 06, 2021, 03:17:18 PM
It seems that schools are going to operate under a "to the nth degree" policy this time around. Entire year groups already sent home in newry.

Which is great for the schools, but is an absolute mess for everyone else.

I've got a feeling there's an underlying driver behind this. I'm expecting schools/teachers to respond to the soon to be mounting pressure of parents and politicians to be less vigilant, with a full scale strike. Which of course payrise would fix.

Maybe I'm adding 2 and 2 together and getting red. But they're definitely playing it differently this time around.

Bless them they sure do deserve a payrise.

Sure thats the thing. School Principals are responsible for pupils come to school with Covid ! Schools are responsible for close contacts in a class of 25 . Schools are responsible for the lack of PCR testing slots. I dont know how they can cope with all that level of responsibility !
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on September 06, 2021, 07:09:23 PM
So what's the solution?

Given that at secondary school level, different groups of students are mixing as they move through the different subjects during the day?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 06, 2021, 08:31:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2021, 07:09:23 PM
So what's the solution?

Given that at secondary school level, different groups of students are mixing as they move through the different subjects during the day?

One solution is seating. If you have people from 3 classes coming together for German, then make sure one-third of the classroom seats each lot rather than having them all around the place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on September 06, 2021, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 06, 2021, 08:31:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2021, 07:09:23 PM
So what's the solution?

Given that at secondary school level, different groups of students are mixing as they move through the different subjects during the day?

One solution is seating. If you have people from 3 classes coming together for German, then make sure one-third of the classroom seats each lot rather than having them all around the place.

That could help limit close contacts all right, but is it practical if you have a large school with classes drawing from dozens or even hundreds of students in a given year?

And if you have a group of students in a class for 45 minutes and someone is shedding virus, in reality they're probably all going to be exposed to some extent, especially if there's no masking.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 06, 2021, 09:31:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2021, 07:09:23 PM
So what's the solution?

Given that at secondary school level, different groups of students are mixing as they move through the different subjects during the day?

Let them at it, positive stay home rest keep attending.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 06, 2021, 09:33:38 PM
Quote from: delgany on September 06, 2021, 07:04:43 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 06, 2021, 06:18:51 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 06, 2021, 03:17:18 PM
It seems that schools are going to operate under a "to the nth degree" policy this time around. Entire year groups already sent home in newry.

Which is great for the schools, but is an absolute mess for everyone else.

I've got a feeling there's an underlying driver behind this. I'm expecting schools/teachers to respond to the soon to be mounting pressure of parents and politicians to be less vigilant, with a full scale strike. Which of course payrise would fix.

Maybe I'm adding 2 and 2 together and getting red. But they're definitely playing it differently this time around.

Bless them they sure do deserve a payrise.

Sure thats the thing. School Principals are responsible for pupils come to school with Covid ! Schools are responsible for close contacts in a class of 25 . Schools are responsible for the lack of PCR testing slots. I dont know how they can cope with all that level of responsibility !

They certainly didn't cope with online learning bless.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on September 06, 2021, 09:33:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2021, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 06, 2021, 08:31:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2021, 07:09:23 PM
So what's the solution?

Given that at secondary school level, different groups of students are mixing as they move through the different subjects during the day?

One solution is seating. If you have people from 3 classes coming together for German, then make sure one-third of the classroom seats each lot rather than having them all around the place.

That could help limit close contacts all right, but is it practical if you have a large school with classes drawing from dozens or even hundreds of students in a given year?

And if you have a group of students in a class for 45 minutes and someone is shedding virus, in reality they're probably all going to be exposed to some extent, especially if there's no masking.

They're all still wearing masks in the North in secondaries, in class, walking the halls, wherever. The over reaction of the Larne principal is farcical.

The procrastination with vaccinating the youth in NI/UK is going to cause some shocking disruption this year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on September 06, 2021, 09:41:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 06, 2021, 08:31:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2021, 07:09:23 PM
So what's the solution?

Given that at secondary school level, different groups of students are mixing as they move through the different subjects during the day?

One solution is seating. If you have people from 3 classes coming together for German, then make sure one-third of the classroom seats each lot rather than having them all around the place.

Most secondary schools have seating plans already for each class, so the teachers know who they are teaching !
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 06, 2021, 09:42:32 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 06, 2021, 09:33:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2021, 08:57:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 06, 2021, 08:31:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 06, 2021, 07:09:23 PM
So what's the solution?

Given that at secondary school level, different groups of students are mixing as they move through the different subjects during the day?

One solution is seating. If you have people from 3 classes coming together for German, then make sure one-third of the classroom seats each lot rather than having them all around the place.

That could help limit close contacts all right, but is it practical if you have a large school with classes drawing from dozens or even hundreds of students in a given year?

And if you have a group of students in a class for 45 minutes and someone is shedding virus, in reality they're probably all going to be exposed to some extent, especially if there's no masking.

They're all still wearing masks in the North in secondaries, in class, walking the halls, wherever. The over reaction of the Larne principal is farcical.

The procrastination with vaccinating the youth in NI/UK is going to cause some shocking disruption this year.

Agree and you can still get it when vaccinated so whom are they protecting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on September 06, 2021, 09:43:11 PM
Some teachers agitating for a "circuit breaker" already !! What would that achieve? The whole idea of lockdowns is to keep pressure off the NHS, these age groups don't get ill from it in the main. Schools ignoring PHA advice and sending children to isolate when there is no need to. Some of them on a massive power trip
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 06, 2021, 09:45:39 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on September 06, 2021, 09:43:11 PM
Some teachers agitating for a "circuit breaker" already !! What would that achieve? The whole idea of lockdowns is to keep pressure off the NHS, these age groups don't get ill from it in the main. Schools ignoring PHA advice and sending children to isolate when there is no need to. Some of them on a massive power trip

Ffs they are back 4 days they need a break, you have no idea the pressure they are under.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 06, 2021, 10:16:55 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on September 06, 2021, 09:43:11 PM
Some teachers agitating for a "circuit breaker" already !! What would that achieve? The whole idea of lockdowns is to keep pressure off the NHS, these age groups don't get ill from it in the main. Schools ignoring PHA advice and sending children to isolate when there is no need to. Some of them on a massive power trip

I think I would like the school for my children to have concern for the health of students beyond the legal minimum.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 06, 2021, 10:35:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 06, 2021, 10:16:55 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on September 06, 2021, 09:43:11 PM
Some teachers agitating for a "circuit breaker" already !! What would that achieve? The whole idea of lockdowns is to keep pressure off the NHS, these age groups don't get ill from it in the main. Schools ignoring PHA advice and sending children to isolate when there is no need to. Some of them on a massive power trip

I think I would like the school for my children to have concern for the health of students beyond the legal minimum.

That include their mental wellbeing now and beyond?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 11:33:29 AM
My daughter has been sent home today as she is a close contact, told to isolate for 10 days as Northern Ireland schools are taking the piss, she is in year 12, so her and her classmates will be in and out of school all year and expected to sit exams in summer in which the last two years have all been given A's.  This shithole we live in is not fit for purpose the Northern Ireland Executive is a f**king joke but not as big a joke as the teachers and the unions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 11:52:16 AM
She can come back with a negative PCR - not one appointment can I get - in fact you have to lie on the online booking as she doesn't fall into their categories - over 80 girls sent home - shit show doesn't come close.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 08, 2021, 11:56:30 AM
The executive is not fit for purpose.
Causing us all big issues
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 08, 2021, 11:56:30 AM
The executive is not fit for purpose.
Causing us all big issues

But everyone will still vote the same useless hoors in next time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 12:00:30 PM
Parents are texting saying make sure you lie and say she has symptoms or won't get a test - seriously how is any of this correct!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 12:12:24 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 11:52:16 AM
She can come back with a negative PCR - not one appointment can I get - in fact you have to lie on the online booking as she doesn't fall into their categories - over 80 girls sent home - shit show doesn't come close.

Same in local secondary. Pile of 1st years sent home and no tests can be got. It's a f**king mess and the teaching unions are to blame for having them sent home. Testing children with no symptoms is f**king stupid. Children tend not to die or even get sick, there is minimal risk.
If unvaccinated people get the virus and get sick or die then that is on them. Time everything went back to normal including schools. We cannot continue to live like this.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on September 08, 2021, 12:15:03 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 12:00:30 PM
Parents are texting saying make sure you lie and say she has symptoms or won't get a test - seriously how is any of this correct!
I think the website where you book a PCR test is wrong and has been wrong for quite some time, which is a bloody farce. The official guidelines is that you get a test if you are a close contact of a positive case. Yet as you say above you have to lie in order to get it if you have no symptoms. This has sort of been widely accepted, as anyone I know who has got a test in the last 6+ months has had to do the same in order to get a test if they displayed no symptoms or not the 3 listed symptoms. Absolute farce. I know ones now, who have been close contacts and don't bother getting the test as they have said the website tells them they don't need to as they are vaccinated, and they dont see the need to lie to get it and just carry on as normal. I cant blame them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 12:18:04 PM
Unfortunately my daughter cannot return to school without a negative PCR, one girl had Covid-19 in August she was allowed to remain in school, on her own, you couldn't make it up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Don Johnson on September 08, 2021, 12:30:02 PM
Got the phone call at 1pm on Monday my wee girl was a contact at her after school on Friday. So I'd to leave work and go and get her.

The nearest test centre available for me that afternoon was f**king Ballycastle at 2.30pm. It's an hour and a half drive for me.

Hadn't even had my lunch yet was driving down the road f**king starving eating the remainder of my wee girl's lunchbox to keep me going!

Negative result came through Tuesday morning which was good she only missed a couple of hours school on the Monday. I know other parents from the after school that haven't had their results back yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: the goal was on on September 08, 2021, 01:21:51 PM
How did people expect anything different from our executive. Awol for 2 months while cases went through the roof. Michelle o Neill called boris johnson wreckless not long ago. Considering we have highest case and death rates in europe she has lost the very very small credibility she had left.
Parents will be over the edge in coming days and weeks.
If they didn't see this coming then they are not fit for purpose.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 01:26:13 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on September 08, 2021, 01:21:51 PM
How did people expect anything different from our executive. Awol for 2 months while cases went through the roof. Michelle o Neill called boris johnson wreckless not long ago. Considering we have highest case and death rates in europe she has lost the very very small credibility she had left.
Parents will be over the edge in coming days and weeks.
If they didn't see this coming then they are not fit for purpose.

Totally correct
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 01:57:46 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58485936 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58485936)

Shit show!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lfdown2 on September 08, 2021, 02:01:41 PM
Went online to book at a test at 10:00, booked and completed by 13:00. I would be calling bullsh1t on some of you.

I have great sympathy for educators this year, not sure what can be expected of them in light of the guidance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on September 08, 2021, 02:01:41 PM
Went online to book at a test at 10:00, booked and completed by 13:00. I would be calling bullsh1t on some of you.

I have great sympathy for educators this year, not sure what can be expected of them in light of the guidance.

What part you calling bullsh1t, having to lie to get to the selection stage, or the unavailable of tests when you get past that stage? You saying you were a full 3 hours trying to get one?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
We really need to stop testing. It's pointless at this stage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 02:58:04 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on September 08, 2021, 02:01:41 PM
Went online to book at a test at 10:00, booked and completed by 13:00. I would be calling bullsh1t on some of you.

I have great sympathy for educators this year, not sure what can be expected of them in light of the guidance.

What part you calling bullsh1t, having to lie to get to the selection stage, or the unavailable of tests when you get past that stage? You saying you were a full 3 hours trying to get one?

Why would you be lying to get to selection page?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 02:58:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 02:58:04 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on September 08, 2021, 02:01:41 PM
Went online to book at a test at 10:00, booked and completed by 13:00. I would be calling bullsh1t on some of you.

I have great sympathy for educators this year, not sure what can be expected of them in light of the guidance.

What part you calling bullsh1t, having to lie to get to the selection stage, or the unavailable of tests when you get past that stage? You saying you were a full 3 hours trying to get one?

Why would you be lying to get to selection page?

Try logging on as a close contact as advised by your school and get back to me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 03:00:31 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
We really need to stop testing. It's pointless at this stage.

Stoops want us all locked up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 03:01:49 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 02:58:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 02:58:04 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on September 08, 2021, 02:01:41 PM
Went online to book at a test at 10:00, booked and completed by 13:00. I would be calling bullsh1t on some of you.

I have great sympathy for educators this year, not sure what can be expected of them in light of the guidance.

What part you calling bullsh1t, having to lie to get to the selection stage, or the unavailable of tests when you get past that stage? You saying you were a full 3 hours trying to get one?

Why would you be lying to get to selection page?

Try logging on as a close contact as advised by your school and get back to me.

you book a test if you have symptoms, if you don't then why would you book a test? close contact if that person has covid yes, not any other reason
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 03:04:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 03:01:49 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 02:58:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 02:58:04 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on September 08, 2021, 02:01:41 PM
Went online to book at a test at 10:00, booked and completed by 13:00. I would be calling bullsh1t on some of you.

I have great sympathy for educators this year, not sure what can be expected of them in light of the guidance.

What part you calling bullsh1t, having to lie to get to the selection stage, or the unavailable of tests when you get past that stage? You saying you were a full 3 hours trying to get one?

Why would you be lying to get to selection page?

Try logging on as a close contact as advised by your school and get back to me.

you book a test if you have symptoms, if you don't then why would you book a test? close contact if that person has covid yes, not any other reason

To get back to school a close contact needs a negative PCR, .maybe try and read the posts before making stupid statements.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 03:06:07 PM
Maybe also log on and simulate booking a test for your 15 year old with only information from school they were a close contact and see where that gets you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 03:08:05 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 03:04:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 03:01:49 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 02:58:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 02:58:04 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on September 08, 2021, 02:01:41 PM
Went online to book at a test at 10:00, booked and completed by 13:00. I would be calling bullsh1t on some of you.

I have great sympathy for educators this year, not sure what can be expected of them in light of the guidance.

What part you calling bullsh1t, having to lie to get to the selection stage, or the unavailable of tests when you get past that stage? You saying you were a full 3 hours trying to get one?

Why would you be lying to get to selection page?

Try logging on as a close contact as advised by your school and get back to me.

you book a test if you have symptoms, if you don't then why would you book a test? close contact if that person has covid yes, not any other reason

To get back to school a close contact needs a negative PCR, .maybe try and read the posts before making stupid statements.

Then just lie, why do you care?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 03:09:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 03:08:05 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 03:04:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 03:01:49 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 02:58:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 02:58:04 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on September 08, 2021, 02:01:41 PM
Went online to book at a test at 10:00, booked and completed by 13:00. I would be calling bullsh1t on some of you.

I have great sympathy for educators this year, not sure what can be expected of them in light of the guidance.

What part you calling bullsh1t, having to lie to get to the selection stage, or the unavailable of tests when you get past that stage? You saying you were a full 3 hours trying to get one?

Why would you be lying to get to selection page?

Try logging on as a close contact as advised by your school and get back to me.

you book a test if you have symptoms, if you don't then why would you book a test? close contact if that person has covid yes, not any other reason

To get back to school a close contact needs a negative PCR, .maybe try and read the posts before making stupid statements.

Then just lie, why do you care?

I am pointing out its a bullshit system not fit for purpose on a discussion thread about it, have I your permission to do that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on September 08, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
We really need to stop testing. It's pointless at this stage.

People generally have Covid for a few days before symptoms first appear. That's also when they're at their most contagious. That's why testing is vital to protect people. Anyone who doesn't understand that at this stage is displaying complete ignorance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 03:15:33 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
We really need to stop testing. It's pointless at this stage.

People generally have Covid for a few days before symptoms first appear. That's also when they're at their most contagious. That's why testing is vital to protect people. Anyone who doesn't understand that at this stage is displaying complete ignorance.

It will never go away, you advocating this continual testing for how long, until Christmas, Easter, 2023, 2025, 90 percent of adults are vaccinated let the children have their lives back.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
We really need to stop testing. It's pointless at this stage.

People generally have Covid for a few days before symptoms first appear. That's also when they're at their most contagious. That's why testing is vital to protect people. Anyone who doesn't understand that at this stage is displaying complete ignorance.

We have the vaccine. We cannot advocate testing and isolation forever.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 03:36:38 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 03:09:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 03:08:05 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 03:04:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 03:01:49 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 02:58:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 02:58:04 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 02:22:01 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on September 08, 2021, 02:01:41 PM
Went online to book at a test at 10:00, booked and completed by 13:00. I would be calling bullsh1t on some of you.

I have great sympathy for educators this year, not sure what can be expected of them in light of the guidance.

What part you calling bullsh1t, having to lie to get to the selection stage, or the unavailable of tests when you get past that stage? You saying you were a full 3 hours trying to get one?

Why would you be lying to get to selection page?

Try logging on as a close contact as advised by your school and get back to me.

you book a test if you have symptoms, if you don't then why would you book a test? close contact if that person has covid yes, not any other reason

To get back to school a close contact needs a negative PCR, .maybe try and read the posts before making stupid statements.

Then just lie, why do you care?

I am pointing out its a bullshit system not fit for purpose on a discussion thread about it, have I your permission to do that?

Where do you come up with the names? I'm curious as to why you bother coming on here to get kicked off?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 03:38:35 PM
I discuss on a discussion board you just want people to agree with you or ban them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 03:40:41 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
We really need to stop testing. It's pointless at this stage.

People generally have Covid for a few days before symptoms first appear. That's also when they're at their most contagious. That's why testing is vital to protect people. Anyone who doesn't understand that at this stage is displaying complete ignorance.

We have the vaccine. We cannot advocate testing and isolation forever.

No one cares about the youth, their mental wellbeing or the long-term effects of missing education, friends and having a normal life, our politicians and unions and scare mongers on boards like this have a lot to answer for.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on September 08, 2021, 04:30:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 06, 2021, 10:16:55 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on September 06, 2021, 09:43:11 PM
Some teachers agitating for a "circuit breaker" already !! What would that achieve? The whole idea of lockdowns is to keep pressure off the NHS, these age groups don't get ill from it in the main. Schools ignoring PHA advice and sending children to isolate when there is no need to. Some of them on a massive power trip

I think I would like the school for my children to have concern for the health of students beyond the legal minimum.
I think your childrens health will be far more negatively effected by the shit show of being sent home to isolate than they ever would be if they caught covid...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on September 08, 2021, 05:50:50 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on September 05, 2021, 08:29:53 PM

ROI weekly update. Lowest weekly case number in 5 weeks. Interesting week ahead as the return to schools should factor in.

Cases 10512 ( 2146 fewer than last week)
In hospital 362 (15 more than a week ago)
in ICU 59 ( 1 fewer than last Sunday)
I went back to last year at same time 921 cases , 11 times as many cases with 90% vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on September 08, 2021, 05:53:32 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 03:40:41 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
We really need to stop testing. It's pointless at this stage.

People generally have Covid for a few days before symptoms first appear. That's also when they're at their most contagious. That's why testing is vital to protect people. Anyone who doesn't understand that at this stage is displaying complete ignorance.

We have the vaccine. We cannot advocate testing and isolation forever.

No one cares about the youth, their mental wellbeing or the long-term effects of missing education, friends and having a normal life, our politicians and unions and scare mongers on boards like this have a lot to answer for.

Do you not think the folk on here and the people making these decisions do not have children, grand children, neices, nephews etc and they're doing this for the craic?

PS: and you're a reincarnation of who TMAC?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 06:02:30 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 08, 2021, 05:53:32 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 03:40:41 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
We really need to stop testing. It's pointless at this stage.

People generally have Covid for a few days before symptoms first appear. That's also when they're at their most contagious. That's why testing is vital to protect people. Anyone who doesn't understand that at this stage is displaying complete ignorance.

We have the vaccine. We cannot advocate testing and isolation forever.

No one cares about the youth, their mental wellbeing or the long-term effects of missing education, friends and having a normal life, our politicians and unions and scare mongers on boards like this have a lot to answer for.

Do you not think the folk on here and the people making these decisions do not have children, grand children, neices, nephews etc and they're doing this for the craic?

PS: and you're a reincarnation of who TMAC?

Take your pick
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 08, 2021, 06:12:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 08, 2021, 05:50:50 PM
I went back to last year at same time 921 cases , 11 times as many cases with 90% vaccinated.

If we had the current more transmissible variant last year we'd have a lot more sick people in hospital and a lot more deaths than we currently do due to no vacancies.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 06:23:16 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 08, 2021, 05:53:32 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 03:40:41 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
We really need to stop testing. It's pointless at this stage.

People generally have Covid for a few days before symptoms first appear. That's also when they're at their most contagious. That's why testing is vital to protect people. Anyone who doesn't understand that at this stage is displaying complete ignorance.

We have the vaccine. We cannot advocate testing and isolation forever.

No one cares about the youth, their mental wellbeing or the long-term effects of missing education, friends and having a normal life, our politicians and unions and scare mongers on boards like this have a lot to answer for.

Do you not think the folk on here and the people making these decisions do not have children, grand children, neices, nephews etc and they're doing this for the craic?

PS: and you're a reincarnation of who TMAC?

I think Unions, teachers, GP's and politicians are taking the piss, the whole close contacts at school is a shit show, why not go for another full lockdown sure most are at home isolating or looking after those isolating, answer me this why did everyone get vaccinated?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on September 08, 2021, 06:36:18 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 06:23:16 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 08, 2021, 05:53:32 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 03:40:41 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
We really need to stop testing. It's pointless at this stage.

People generally have Covid for a few days before symptoms first appear. That's also when they're at their most contagious. That's why testing is vital to protect people. Anyone who doesn't understand that at this stage is displaying complete ignorance.

We have the vaccine. We cannot advocate testing and isolation forever.

No one cares about the youth, their mental wellbeing or the long-term effects of missing education, friends and having a normal life, our politicians and unions and scare mongers on boards like this have a lot to answer for.

Do you not think the folk on here and the people making these decisions do not have children, grand children, neices, nephews etc and they're doing this for the craic?

PS: and you're a reincarnation of who TMAC?

I think Unions, teachers, GP's and politicians are taking the piss, the whole close contacts at school is a shit show, why not go for another full lockdown sure most are at home isolating or looking after those isolating, answer me this why did everyone get vaccinated?

Everyone didn't get vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 06:45:46 PM
Tongue in cheek, fact is everyone won't, to end this shit show stop close contacts bring on boosters for the wet blankets let everyone else live.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: the goal was on on September 08, 2021, 07:00:41 PM
Executive needs to grow a set and tell schools pupils can return after negative test. They can't on one hand lift all restrictions and then on the other subject families and children to 10 day isolations need on end. Shambles and unsustainable . Schools wanting help from PHA but yet won't follow there guidance . Has to end tomorrow.  For once the DUP are right!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on September 08, 2021, 07:09:48 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
We really need to stop testing. It's pointless at this stage.

People generally have Covid for a few days before symptoms first appear. That's also when they're at their most contagious. That's why testing is vital to protect people. Anyone who doesn't understand that at this stage is displaying complete ignorance.

We have the vaccine. We cannot advocate testing and isolation forever.

A lot depends on how the NHS is coping. People on here don't understand how the nhs works. If people are admitted with acute illness and need immediate emergency care they get it. If the numbers get very high that means all nhs staff are moved to help with covid patients. That means people with other illnesses like cancer who don't need immediate emergency care get pushed back weeks or even months. That situation will/already has cost lots of lives. This illness is very dangerous even for young people and its long term effects on people isn't yet known. At the moment it's almost there will be another lockdown and it'll be in the next 5 or 6 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 08:41:12 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 07:09:48 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
We really need to stop testing. It's pointless at this stage.

People generally have Covid for a few days before symptoms first appear. That's also when they're at their most contagious. That's why testing is vital to protect people. Anyone who doesn't understand that at this stage is displaying complete ignorance.

We have the vaccine. We cannot advocate testing and isolation forever.

A lot depends on how the NHS is coping. People on here don't understand how the nhs works. If people are admitted with acute illness and need immediate emergency care they get it. If the numbers get very high that means all nhs staff are moved to help with covid patients. That means people with other illnesses like cancer who don't need immediate emergency care get pushed back weeks or even months. That situation will/already has cost lots of lives. This illness is very dangerous even for young people and its long term effects on people isn't yet known. At the moment it's almost there will be another lockdown and it'll be in the next 5 or 6 weeks.

There will never be another lockdown as much as doom merchants like you want it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 08:41:39 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 08, 2021, 07:27:06 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 06:23:16 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 08, 2021, 05:53:32 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 03:40:41 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
We really need to stop testing. It's pointless at this stage.

People generally have Covid for a few days before symptoms first appear. That's also when they're at their most contagious. That's why testing is vital to protect people. Anyone who doesn't understand that at this stage is displaying complete ignorance.

We have the vaccine. We cannot advocate testing and isolation forever.

No one cares about the youth, their mental wellbeing or the long-term effects of missing education, friends and having a normal life, our politicians and unions and scare mongers on boards like this have a lot to answer for.

Do you not think the folk on here and the people making these decisions do not have children, grand children, neices, nephews etc and they're doing this for the craic?

PS: and you're a reincarnation of who TMAC?

I think Unions, teachers, GP's and politicians are taking the piss, the whole close contacts at school is a shit show, why not go for another full lockdown sure most are at home isolating or looking after those isolating, answer me this why did everyone get vaccinated?
What are teachers doing to take the piss?

As little as possible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on September 08, 2021, 08:44:50 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 08:41:12 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 07:09:48 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
We really need to stop testing. It's pointless at this stage.

People generally have Covid for a few days before symptoms first appear. That's also when they're at their most contagious. That's why testing is vital to protect people. Anyone who doesn't understand that at this stage is displaying complete ignorance.

We have the vaccine. We cannot advocate testing and isolation forever.

A lot depends on how the NHS is coping. People on here don't understand how the nhs works. If people are admitted with acute illness and need immediate emergency care they get it. If the numbers get very high that means all nhs staff are moved to help with covid patients. That means people with other illnesses like cancer who don't need immediate emergency care get pushed back weeks or even months. That situation will/already has cost lots of lives. This illness is very dangerous even for young people and its long term effects on people isn't yet known. At the moment it's almost there will be another lockdown and it'll be in the next 5 or 6 weeks.

There will never be another lockdown as much as doom merchants like you want it.

lol, you can shout and stamp your feet as much as you want. It's almost certain we'll get another lockdown. The numbers are crazy and there's guaranteed to be a percentage who get very sick and need icu treatment. Once we near breaking point the only solution guaranteed to work is a lockdown. I'm not a gloom and doom merchant, just a realist. I hate lockdowns also but they have been proven to work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 08:56:40 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 08, 2021, 08:47:44 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 08:41:39 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 08, 2021, 07:27:06 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 06:23:16 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 08, 2021, 05:53:32 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 03:40:41 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
We really need to stop testing. It's pointless at this stage.

People generally have Covid for a few days before symptoms first appear. That's also when they're at their most contagious. That's why testing is vital to protect people. Anyone who doesn't understand that at this stage is displaying complete ignorance.

We have the vaccine. We cannot advocate testing and isolation forever.

No one cares about the youth, their mental wellbeing or the long-term effects of missing education, friends and having a normal life, our politicians and unions and scare mongers on boards like this have a lot to answer for.

Do you not think the folk on here and the people making these decisions do not have children, grand children, neices, nephews etc and they're doing this for the craic?

PS: and you're a reincarnation of who TMAC?

I think Unions, teachers, GP's and politicians are taking the piss, the whole close contacts at school is a shit show, why not go for another full lockdown sure most are at home isolating or looking after those isolating, answer me this why did everyone get vaccinated?
What are teachers doing to take the piss?

As little as possible.
What do you mean? Aren't they all back teaching full time?

Are there many working from home like many other industries?

They all back yip correct! Those who are are scant in the work for the students forced to stay home, most others are forced to stay at home to childminders.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 08:58:08 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 08:44:50 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 08:41:12 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 07:09:48 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
We really need to stop testing. It's pointless at this stage.

People generally have Covid for a few days before symptoms first appear. That's also when they're at their most contagious. That's why testing is vital to protect people. Anyone who doesn't understand that at this stage is displaying complete ignorance.

We have the vaccine. We cannot advocate testing and isolation forever.

A lot depends on how the NHS is coping. People on here don't understand how the nhs works. If people are admitted with acute illness and need immediate emergency care they get it. If the numbers get very high that means all nhs staff are moved to help with covid patients. That means people with other illnesses like cancer who don't need immediate emergency care get pushed back weeks or even months. That situation will/already has cost lots of lives. This illness is very dangerous even for young people and its long term effects on people isn't yet known. At the moment it's almost there will be another lockdown and it'll be in the next 5 or 6 weeks.

There will never be another lockdown as much as doom merchants like you want it.

lol, you can shout and stamp your feet as much as you want. It's almost certain we'll get another lockdown. The numbers are crazy and there's guaranteed to be a percentage who get very sick and need icu treatment. Once we near breaking point the only solution guaranteed to work is a lockdown. I'm not a gloom and doom merchant, just a realist. I hate lockdowns also but they have been proven to work.

Work for whom? Again why did the majority get vaccinated?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:03:40 PM
Are they f**k doing their jobs as normal, I assume you or the partner is a teacher, a most protected species the public sector worker huge backing of powerful unions and can do as little as they want without fear of reproach.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:05:15 PM
GP's also taking the piss, but they can so its OK.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:10:35 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 08, 2021, 09:08:24 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:03:40 PM
Are they f**k doing their jobs as normal, I assume you or the partner is a teacher, a most protected species the public sector worker huge backing of powerful unions and can do as little as they want without fear of reproach.
So they're in their classrooms doing nothing? The vast majority of kids are in the schools at any one time. Are they not being taught as normal?

In the wee six the vast majority are at home so no they are not being taught as normal, so are you a teacher or one of your family or are you embarrassed to say?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on September 08, 2021, 09:10:40 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 08:58:08 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 08:44:50 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 08:41:12 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 07:09:48 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
We really need to stop testing. It's pointless at this stage.

People generally have Covid for a few days before symptoms first appear. That's also when they're at their most contagious. That's why testing is vital to protect people. Anyone who doesn't understand that at this stage is displaying complete ignorance.

We have the vaccine. We cannot advocate testing and isolation forever.

A lot depends on how the NHS is coping. People on here don't understand how the nhs works. If people are admitted with acute illness and need immediate emergency care they get it. If the numbers get very high that means all nhs staff are moved to help with covid patients. That means people with other illnesses like cancer who don't need immediate emergency care get pushed back weeks or even months. That situation will/already has cost lots of lives. This illness is very dangerous even for young people and its long term effects on people isn't yet known. At the moment it's almost there will be another lockdown and it'll be in the next 5 or 6 weeks.

There will never be another lockdown as much as doom merchants like you want it.

lol, you can shout and stamp your feet as much as you want. It's almost certain we'll get another lockdown. The numbers are crazy and there's guaranteed to be a percentage who get very sick and need icu treatment. Once we near breaking point the only solution guaranteed to work is a lockdown. I'm not a gloom and doom merchant, just a realist. I hate lockdowns also but they have been proven to work.

Work for whom? Again why did the majority get vaccinated?

They worked for everyone by getting the numbers down so that the nhs could manage. If the nhs is overwhelmed then even routine injuries, illnesses or minor surgeries could cost lives. Can you not see that. Lockdowns are a necessary evil. The majority got vaccinated to protect themselves against serious illness and they're working really well so far. A small percentage of people will still get sick but a small percentage of a very large number is still a significant number of people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:14:40 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 09:10:40 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 08:58:08 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 08:44:50 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 08:41:12 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 07:09:48 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
We really need to stop testing. It's pointless at this stage.

People generally have Covid for a few days before symptoms first appear. That's also when they're at their most contagious. That's why testing is vital to protect people. Anyone who doesn't understand that at this stage is displaying complete ignorance.

We have the vaccine. We cannot advocate testing and isolation forever.

A lot depends on how the NHS is coping. People on here don't understand how the nhs works. If people are admitted with acute illness and need immediate emergency care they get it. If the numbers get very high that means all nhs staff are moved to help with covid patients. That means people with other illnesses like cancer who don't need immediate emergency care get pushed back weeks or even months. That situation will/already has cost lots of lives. This illness is very dangerous even for young people and its long term effects on people isn't yet known. At the moment it's almost there will be another lockdown and it'll be in the next 5 or 6 weeks.

There will never be another lockdown as much as doom merchants like you want it.

lol, you can shout and stamp your feet as much as you want. It's almost certain we'll get another lockdown. The numbers are crazy and there's guaranteed to be a percentage who get very sick and need icu treatment. Once we near breaking point the only solution guaranteed to work is a lockdown. I'm not a gloom and doom merchant, just a realist. I hate lockdowns also but they have been proven to work.

Work for whom? Again why did the majority get vaccinated?

They worked for everyone by getting the numbers down so that the nhs could manage. If the nhs is overwhelmed then even routine injuries, illnesses or minor surgeries could cost lives. Can you not see that. Lockdowns are a necessary evil. The majority got vaccinated to protect themselves against serious illness and they're working really well so far. A small percentage of people will still get sick but a small percentage of a very large number is still a significant number of people.

They worked for everyone!! Tell that to those who committed suicide, lost their jobs, suffered at the hands of abusers, have had serious mental health issues, were totally isolated from the world, felt worthless, lost relationships but hey you really don't care do you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 09:16:39 PM
He's on a roll today!! I'll give it another week at most
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:17:13 PM
Vaccination was the way out what a load of bollocks time to let folk live, everyone knows the risk now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:18:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 09:16:39 PM
He's on a roll today!! I'll give it another week at most

You never could accept facts, Mod5 password forgotten,?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 09:18:45 PM
Is furlough still going or is everyone back to work?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:20:19 PM
Folk are in places of employment, as for work!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 09:23:11 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:20:19 PM
Folk are in places of employment, as for work!!

Ah, you get about some workplaces, between talking rubbish here and going around all the schools you've barely time to see these kids you say you have.

You must be some craic in the house
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on September 08, 2021, 09:23:41 PM
Is Angelo back?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 09:26:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 08, 2021, 09:23:41 PM
Is Angelo back?

Seriously? Been back a while
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:32:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 09:23:11 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:20:19 PM
Folk are in places of employment, as for work!!

Ah, you get about some workplaces, between talking rubbish here and going around all the schools you've barely time to see these kids you say you have.

You must be some craic in the house

The rules are defunct - my parent died in hospital last week, I am sure you couldn't care less - the staff were amazing - we were allowed a rota to visit - during day we were met at reception had to don all the gear before going up to sit, after midnight no one was there I walked up wearing a cloth face covering was allowed in as were other siblings - during the night shift staff were not wearing the same level of PPE as during the day.  Staff in shops don't were masks all time but customers are expected too, if students are sent home why aren't teachers as close contacts - its completely nonsensical!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:34:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 08, 2021, 09:23:41 PM
Is Angelo back?

You are the epitomy  of the dickhead on this board and dickhead MOD5 says is acceptable so no personal abuse there!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:37:44 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:32:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 09:23:11 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:20:19 PM
Folk are in places of employment, as for work!!

Ah, you get about some workplaces, between talking rubbish here and going around all the schools you've barely time to see these kids you say you have.

You must be some craic in the house

The rules are defunct - my parent died in hospital last week, I am sure you couldn't care less - the staff were amazing - we were allowed a rota to visit - during day we were met at reception had to don all the gear before going up to sit, after midnight no one was there I walked up wearing a cloth face covering was allowed in as were other siblings - during the night shift staff were not wearing the same level of PPE as during the day.  Staff in shops don't were masks all time but customers are expected too, if students are sent home why aren't teachers as close contacts - its completely nonsensical!

Or folk on same bus!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on September 08, 2021, 09:39:36 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:14:40 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 09:10:40 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 08:58:08 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 08:44:50 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 08:41:12 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 07:09:48 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
We really need to stop testing. It's pointless at this stage.

People generally have Covid for a few days before symptoms first appear. That's also when they're at their most contagious. That's why testing is vital to protect people. Anyone who doesn't understand that at this stage is displaying complete ignorance.

We have the vaccine. We cannot advocate testing and isolation forever.

A lot depends on how the NHS is coping. People on here don't understand how the nhs works. If people are admitted with acute illness and need immediate emergency care they get it. If the numbers get very high that means all nhs staff are moved to help with covid patients. That means people with other illnesses like cancer who don't need immediate emergency care get pushed back weeks or even months. That situation will/already has cost lots of lives. This illness is very dangerous even for young people and its long term effects on people isn't yet known. At the moment it's almost there will be another lockdown and it'll be in the next 5 or 6 weeks.

There will never be another lockdown as much as doom merchants like you want it.

lol, you can shout and stamp your feet as much as you want. It's almost certain we'll get another lockdown. The numbers are crazy and there's guaranteed to be a percentage who get very sick and need icu treatment. Once we near breaking point the only solution guaranteed to work is a lockdown. I'm not a gloom and doom merchant, just a realist. I hate lockdowns also but they have been proven to work.

Work for whom? Again why did the majority get vaccinated?

They worked for everyone by getting the numbers down so that the nhs could manage. If the nhs is overwhelmed then even routine injuries, illnesses or minor surgeries could cost lives. Can you not see that. Lockdowns are a necessary evil. The majority got vaccinated to protect themselves against serious illness and they're working really well so far. A small percentage of people will still get sick but a small percentage of a very large number is still a significant number of people.

They worked for everyone!! Tell that to those who committed suicide, lost their jobs, suffered at the hands of abusers, have had serious mental health issues, were totally isolated from the world, felt worthless, lost relationships but hey you really don't care do you.

It was tough mentally for everyone but there is no evidence I've seen that there was an increase in suicides. I have seen studies where it shows people who suffer from anxiety were helped by the lockdowns and felt reassured. Their anxiety levels increased severely when restrictions eased.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:41:40 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 09:39:36 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:14:40 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 09:10:40 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 08:58:08 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 08:44:50 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 08:41:12 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 07:09:48 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 08, 2021, 03:13:04 PM
Quote from: Cobra on September 08, 2021, 02:57:14 PM
We really need to stop testing. It's pointless at this stage.

People generally have Covid for a few days before symptoms first appear. That's also when they're at their most contagious. That's why testing is vital to protect people. Anyone who doesn't understand that at this stage is displaying complete ignorance.

We have the vaccine. We cannot advocate testing and isolation forever.

A lot depends on how the NHS is coping. People on here don't understand how the nhs works. If people are admitted with acute illness and need immediate emergency care they get it. If the numbers get very high that means all nhs staff are moved to help with covid patients. That means people with other illnesses like cancer who don't need immediate emergency care get pushed back weeks or even months. That situation will/already has cost lots of lives. This illness is very dangerous even for young people and its long term effects on people isn't yet known. At the moment it's almost there will be another lockdown and it'll be in the next 5 or 6 weeks.

There will never be another lockdown as much as doom merchants like you want it.

lol, you can shout and stamp your feet as much as you want. It's almost certain we'll get another lockdown. The numbers are crazy and there's guaranteed to be a percentage who get very sick and need icu treatment. Once we near breaking point the only solution guaranteed to work is a lockdown. I'm not a gloom and doom merchant, just a realist. I hate lockdowns also but they have been proven to work.

Work for whom? Again why did the majority get vaccinated?

They worked for everyone by getting the numbers down so that the nhs could manage. If the nhs is overwhelmed then even routine injuries, illnesses or minor surgeries could cost lives. Can you not see that. Lockdowns are a necessary evil. The majority got vaccinated to protect themselves against serious illness and they're working really well so far. A small percentage of people will still get sick but a small percentage of a very large number is still a significant number of people.

They worked for everyone!! Tell that to those who committed suicide, lost their jobs, suffered at the hands of abusers, have had serious mental health issues, were totally isolated from the world, felt worthless, lost relationships but hey you really don't care do you.

It was tough mentally for everyone but there is no evidence I've seen that there was an increase in suicides. I have seen studies where it shows people who suffer from anxiety were helped by the lockdowns and felt reassured. Their anxiety levels increased severely when restrictions eased.

FFS you must be a wind up merchant - take care.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:43:36 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 08, 2021, 09:40:42 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:37:44 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:32:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 09:23:11 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:20:19 PM
Folk are in places of employment, as for work!!

Ah, you get about some workplaces, between talking rubbish here and going around all the schools you've barely time to see these kids you say you have.

You must be some craic in the house

The rules are defunct - my parent died in hospital last week, I am sure you couldn't care less - the staff were amazing - we were allowed a rota to visit - during day we were met at reception had to don all the gear before going up to sit, after midnight no one was there I walked up wearing a cloth face covering was allowed in as were other siblings - during the night shift staff were not wearing the same level of PPE as during the day.  Staff in shops don't were masks all time but customers are expected too, if students are sent home why aren't teachers as close contacts - its completely nonsensical!

Or folk on same bus!

They are good questions.

Teachers are being kept in schools so that many children can still attend, allowing parents to go to work.

So are you a teacher? You must be embarrassed, parents are at home looking after kids who are close contacts, half the students are at home - you must be in the staff room catching up on netflix - hopefully you get a 2 week breaker to finish the fence at halloween!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: the goal was on on September 08, 2021, 09:52:07 PM
My child can now go anywhere she likes after testing negative but because the school has decided not to follow the guidance she can't attend school for the next 8 days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on September 08, 2021, 09:52:37 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:34:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 08, 2021, 09:23:41 PM
Is Angelo back?

You are the epitomy  of the dickhead on this board and dickhead MOD5 says is acceptable so no personal abuse there!

Nice.

I get that I'm apparently a dickhead, but is MOD5 one also? It's hard to tell from that rant.

I don't really care if you're Angelo. Just curious why you'd bother with the name change if you are, especially as the approach is the same.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 09:53:47 PM
The gift that keeps giving!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on September 08, 2021, 09:54:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 09:26:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 08, 2021, 09:23:41 PM
Is Angelo back?

Seriously? Been back a while

Hadn't been paying attention.

Just noticed the similarities today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:58:59 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 08, 2021, 09:47:49 PM
You must learn to read. I've already answered your question.

You previously claimed that the vast majority of kids were at home.
Now it is half.
It's great to see you becoming more positive in such a short time.

Yes, I'm the one who should be embarrassed.

You really are a teacher, grow a set and admit it, probably maths teacher ffs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 08, 2021, 09:59:49 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on September 08, 2021, 09:52:07 PM
My child can now go anywhere she likes after testing negative but because the school has decided not to follow the guidance she can't attend school for the next 8 days.

God forbid they have to work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 08, 2021, 10:07:02 PM
It's not Angelo. It's Sureyouwill, AFM etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on September 08, 2021, 10:21:16 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 08, 2021, 10:05:40 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on September 08, 2021, 09:52:07 PM
My child can now go anywhere she likes after testing negative but because the school has decided not to follow the guidance she can't attend school for the next 8 days.
Primary or post-primary?

I'm surprised that some schools are going against the guidance. There couldn't be many.

The current guidance in the North is complete bollocks tbh.
If a child has Covid , all close contacts should isolate for 10 days.
No variables allowed. Breaks the cycle of close contacts, spreading the virus continously around the classroom/ school.

I
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: the goal was on on September 08, 2021, 11:18:01 PM
If children are made to isolate even if negative they'll be off school most of year. How can people work if children are constantly isolating.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 11:29:16 PM
Do you remember the days that the mums stayed home with the children until they were old enough to have a key! The simple times when we were not obsessed with having two incomes coming into the house...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 08, 2021, 11:49:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2021, 11:29:16 PM
Do you remember the days that the mums stayed home with the children until they were old enough to have a key! The simple times when we were not obsessed with having two incomes coming into the house...

unfortunately govts have made it so
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on September 09, 2021, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: the goal was on on September 08, 2021, 11:18:01 PM
If children are made to isolate even if negative they'll be off school most of year. How can people work if children are constantly isolating.

There are 350 000 school aged children in North.
Would 10 % be off at any one time ?  Is there any data on this?
Those who need to work will find a solution.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on September 09, 2021, 10:37:47 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 09, 2021, 05:59:30 AM
Quote from: delgany on September 08, 2021, 10:21:16 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 08, 2021, 10:05:40 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on September 08, 2021, 09:52:07 PM
My child can now go anywhere she likes after testing negative but because the school has decided not to follow the guidance she can't attend school for the next 8 days.
Primary or post-primary?

I'm surprised that some schools are going against the guidance. There couldn't be many.

The current guidance in the North is complete bollocks tbh.
If a child has Covid , all close contacts should isolate for 10 days.
No variables allowed. Breaks the cycle of close contacts, spreading the virus continously around the classroom/ school.

I
I don't disagree with that and I'm not saying that these schools are doing the wrong thing. However, sailing alone against the guidance leaves them open to challenges IMO.

If Joe underperforms in his GCSEs, having been made to miss 20 days of school when he didn't have to according to the PHA guidance, the knives will be out for those who made that decision.

That's why I am surprised.

Afaik ..it is guidance only .It isnt statutory  and if a risk assessment is carried out , they cant touch the school..In  the 16th Aug guidance , it actual says it is the Principal's call.
I appreciate stakes are higher at secondary level exam years.
The guidance is way too random and the DENi 'flexible' approach is s load of nonsense ! 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: DuffleKing on September 09, 2021, 10:43:30 AM
Quote from: delgany on September 08, 2021, 10:21:16 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 08, 2021, 10:05:40 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on September 08, 2021, 09:52:07 PM
My child can now go anywhere she likes after testing negative but because the school has decided not to follow the guidance she can't attend school for the next 8 days.
Primary or post-primary?

I'm surprised that some schools are going against the guidance. There couldn't be many.

The current guidance in the North is complete bollocks tbh.
If a child has Covid , all close contacts should isolate for 10 days.
No variables allowed. Breaks the cycle of close contacts, spreading the virus continously around the classroom/ school.

I

This is not the guidance in the north.

If a child is deemed a close contact - and are not vaccinated - then they must pass a PCR test to return to school. In most cases, this is a 2 day turn around.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on September 09, 2021, 11:32:44 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 09, 2021, 10:43:30 AM
Quote from: delgany on September 08, 2021, 10:21:16 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 08, 2021, 10:05:40 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on September 08, 2021, 09:52:07 PM
My child can now go anywhere she likes after testing negative but because the school has decided not to follow the guidance she can't attend school for the next 8 days.
Primary or post-primary?

I'm surprised that some schools are going against the guidance. There couldn't be many.

The current guidance in the North is complete bollocks tbh.
If a child has Covid , all close contacts should isolate for 10 days.
No variables allowed. Breaks the cycle of close contacts, spreading the virus continously around the classroom/ school.

I

This is not the guidance in the north.

If a child is deemed a close contact - and are not vaccinated - then they must pass a PCR test to return to school. In most cases, this is a 2 day turn around.

And as I said , that  guidance s complete nonsense .
A child/ pupil can be -ve on day 2 , if they are lucky enough to get a PCR test,  but be positive on Day 5 and spread the virus around the room. Research is indicating that Day 3 should be the opitimal day for testing in first place.
The guidance is not a statutory requirement.
Close contacts out for 10 days - IS the easiest way to manage in school. Straight forward to sort & manage !

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cobra on September 09, 2021, 11:35:53 AM
Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 11:32:44 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 09, 2021, 10:43:30 AM
Quote from: delgany on September 08, 2021, 10:21:16 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 08, 2021, 10:05:40 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on September 08, 2021, 09:52:07 PM
My child can now go anywhere she likes after testing negative but because the school has decided not to follow the guidance she can't attend school for the next 8 days.
Primary or post-primary?

I'm surprised that some schools are going against the guidance. There couldn't be many.

The current guidance in the North is complete bollocks tbh.
If a child has Covid , all close contacts should isolate for 10 days.
No variables allowed. Breaks the cycle of close contacts, spreading the virus continously around the classroom/ school.

I

This is not the guidance in the north.

If a child is deemed a close contact - and are not vaccinated - then they must pass a PCR test to return to school. In most cases, this is a 2 day turn around.

And as I said , that  guidance s complete nonsense .
A child/ pupil can be -ve on day 2 , if they are lucky enough to get a PCR test,  but be positive on Day 5 and spread the virus around the room. Research is indicating that Day 3 should be the opitimal day for testing in first place.
The guidance is not a statutory requirement.
Close contacts out for 10 days - IS the easiest way to manage in school. Straight forward to sort & manage !

Are you f**king mental? 10 days? There'll be nobody left in the schools.
Teachers should all be vaccinated. There is minuscule risk to the kids. There is absolutely no need to test for this virus.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on September 09, 2021, 11:39:37 AM
Quote from: Cobra on September 09, 2021, 11:35:53 AM
Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 11:32:44 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 09, 2021, 10:43:30 AM
Quote from: delgany on September 08, 2021, 10:21:16 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 08, 2021, 10:05:40 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on September 08, 2021, 09:52:07 PM
My child can now go anywhere she likes after testing negative but because the school has decided not to follow the guidance she can't attend school for the next 8 days.
Primary or post-primary?

I'm surprised that some schools are going against the guidance. There couldn't be many.

The current guidance in the North is complete bollocks tbh.
If a child has Covid , all close contacts should isolate for 10 days.
No variables allowed. Breaks the cycle of close contacts, spreading the virus continously around the classroom/ school.

I

This is not the guidance in the north.

If a child is deemed a close contact - and are not vaccinated - then they must pass a PCR test to return to school. In most cases, this is a 2 day turn around.

And as I said , that  guidance s complete nonsense .
A child/ pupil can be -ve on day 2 , if they are lucky enough to get a PCR test,  but be positive on Day 5 and spread the virus around the room. Research is indicating that Day 3 should be the opitimal day for testing in first place.
The guidance is not a statutory requirement.
Close contacts out for 10 days - IS the easiest way to manage in school. Straight forward to sort & manage !

Are you f**king mental? 10 days? There'll be nobody left in the schools.
Teachers should all be vaccinated. There is minuscule risk to the kids. There is absolutely no need to test for this virus.

How do you know schools are empty ?

So, do you think herd immunity is the way to go?
By isolating, you break the cycle, curb the infection rates, stop people getting sick.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cobra on September 09, 2021, 11:43:59 AM
Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 11:39:37 AM
Quote from: Cobra on September 09, 2021, 11:35:53 AM
Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 11:32:44 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 09, 2021, 10:43:30 AM
Quote from: delgany on September 08, 2021, 10:21:16 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 08, 2021, 10:05:40 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on September 08, 2021, 09:52:07 PM
My child can now go anywhere she likes after testing negative but because the school has decided not to follow the guidance she can't attend school for the next 8 days.
Primary or post-primary?

I'm surprised that some schools are going against the guidance. There couldn't be many.

The current guidance in the North is complete bollocks tbh.
If a child has Covid , all close contacts should isolate for 10 days.
No variables allowed. Breaks the cycle of close contacts, spreading the virus continously around the classroom/ school.

I

This is not the guidance in the north.

If a child is deemed a close contact - and are not vaccinated - then they must pass a PCR test to return to school. In most cases, this is a 2 day turn around.

And as I said , that  guidance s complete nonsense .
A child/ pupil can be -ve on day 2 , if they are lucky enough to get a PCR test,  but be positive on Day 5 and spread the virus around the room. Research is indicating that Day 3 should be the opitimal day for testing in first place.
The guidance is not a statutory requirement.
Close contacts out for 10 days - IS the easiest way to manage in school. Straight forward to sort & manage !

Are you f**king mental? 10 days? There'll be nobody left in the schools.
Teachers should all be vaccinated. There is minuscule risk to the kids. There is absolutely no need to test for this virus.

How do you know schools are empty ?

So, do you think herd immunity is the way to go?
By isolating, you break the cycle, curb the infection rates, stop people getting sick.

We have the vaccine. Constant testing and isolation is no way to live going forward.
There is zero chance of breaking any transmission chain now. Nearly all sectors have fully reopened and mitigations relaxed. You want to reintroduce restrictions in schools. That is simply not a viable idea given what is happening in the rest of society.
Parents are rightly upset about all of this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 12:00:09 PM
Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 11:32:44 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 09, 2021, 10:43:30 AM
Quote from: delgany on September 08, 2021, 10:21:16 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 08, 2021, 10:05:40 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on September 08, 2021, 09:52:07 PM
My child can now go anywhere she likes after testing negative but because the school has decided not to follow the guidance she can't attend school for the next 8 days.
Primary or post-primary?

I'm surprised that some schools are going against the guidance. There couldn't be many.

The current guidance in the North is complete bollocks tbh.
If a child has Covid , all close contacts should isolate for 10 days.
No variables allowed. Breaks the cycle of close contacts, spreading the virus continously around the classroom/ school.

I

This is not the guidance in the north.

If a child is deemed a close contact - and are not vaccinated - then they must pass a PCR test to return to school. In most cases, this is a 2 day turn around.

And as I said , that  guidance s complete nonsense .
A child/ pupil can be -ve on day 2 , if they are lucky enough to get a PCR test,  but be positive on Day 5 and spread the virus around the room. Research is indicating that Day 3 should be the opitimal day for testing in first place.
The guidance is not a statutory requirement.
Close contacts out for 10 days - IS the easiest way to manage in school. Straight forward to sort & manage !

Easiest for schools! What about the child or their parents - the same child could be a close contact time and time again - are they to remain out indefinitely!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 12:01:05 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on September 08, 2021, 11:18:01 PM
If children are made to isolate even if negative they'll be off school most of year. How can people work if children are constantly isolating.

Apparently the teachers are all working!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 12:03:35 PM
Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 11:39:37 AM
Quote from: Cobra on September 09, 2021, 11:35:53 AM
Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 11:32:44 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 09, 2021, 10:43:30 AM
Quote from: delgany on September 08, 2021, 10:21:16 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 08, 2021, 10:05:40 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on September 08, 2021, 09:52:07 PM
My child can now go anywhere she likes after testing negative but because the school has decided not to follow the guidance she can't attend school for the next 8 days.
Primary or post-primary?

I'm surprised that some schools are going against the guidance. There couldn't be many.

The current guidance in the North is complete bollocks tbh.
If a child has Covid , all close contacts should isolate for 10 days.
No variables allowed. Breaks the cycle of close contacts, spreading the virus continously around the classroom/ school.

I

This is not the guidance in the north.

If a child is deemed a close contact - and are not vaccinated - then they must pass a PCR test to return to school. In most cases, this is a 2 day turn around.

And as I said , that  guidance s complete nonsense .
A child/ pupil can be -ve on day 2 , if they are lucky enough to get a PCR test,  but be positive on Day 5 and spread the virus around the room. Research is indicating that Day 3 should be the opitimal day for testing in first place.
The guidance is not a statutory requirement.
Close contacts out for 10 days - IS the easiest way to manage in school. Straight forward to sort & manage !

Are you f**king mental? 10 days? There'll be nobody left in the schools.
Teachers should all be vaccinated. There is minuscule risk to the kids. There is absolutely no need to test for this virus.

How do you know schools are empty ?

So, do you think herd immunity is the way to go?
By isolating, you break the cycle, curb the infection rates, stop people getting sick.

The close contacts are based on seating arrangements in a class, what about the bus to school the bus home - it's nonsensical and it's breaking no cycle - child A is a close contact of child B and is told to isolate for 10 days, day 11 Child A is a close contact of child C and again has to isolate for 10 days - you see what is happening her - complete shit show!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on September 09, 2021, 12:11:43 PM
Ulster Teaching Union says schools need to look at a longer self isolation period  ???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 12:12:46 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on September 09, 2021, 12:11:43 PM
Ulster Teaching Union says schools need to look at a longer self isolation period  ???

Of course they did, probably till Christmas - poor teachers are under so much pressure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on September 09, 2021, 12:53:31 PM
A primary school in Co Derry has asked parents of P3s to come and lift their children.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 12:55:52 PM
A friend of my daughters came back yesterday after a negative PCR test on Tuesday only to be sent home again today - the shit show that keeps on giving.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 12:56:44 PM
At start of week primary school in Armagh had all P4's sent home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: DuffleKing on September 09, 2021, 01:04:37 PM
Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 11:39:37 AM
Quote from: Cobra on September 09, 2021, 11:35:53 AM
Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 11:32:44 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 09, 2021, 10:43:30 AM
Quote from: delgany on September 08, 2021, 10:21:16 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 08, 2021, 10:05:40 PM
Quote from: the goal was on on September 08, 2021, 09:52:07 PM
My child can now go anywhere she likes after testing negative but because the school has decided not to follow the guidance she can't attend school for the next 8 days.
Primary or post-primary?

I'm surprised that some schools are going against the guidance. There couldn't be many.

The current guidance in the North is complete bollocks tbh.
If a child has Covid , all close contacts should isolate for 10 days.
No variables allowed. Breaks the cycle of close contacts, spreading the virus continously around the classroom/ school.

I

This is not the guidance in the north.

If a child is deemed a close contact - and are not vaccinated - then they must pass a PCR test to return to school. In most cases, this is a 2 day turn around.

And as I said , that  guidance s complete nonsense .
A child/ pupil can be -ve on day 2 , if they are lucky enough to get a PCR test,  but be positive on Day 5 and spread the virus around the room. Research is indicating that Day 3 should be the opitimal day for testing in first place.
The guidance is not a statutory requirement.
Close contacts out for 10 days - IS the easiest way to manage in school. Straight forward to sort & manage !

Are you f**king mental? 10 days? There'll be nobody left in the schools.
Teachers should all be vaccinated. There is minuscule risk to the kids. There is absolutely no need to test for this virus.

How do you know schools are empty ?

So, do you think herd immunity is the way to go?
By isolating, you break the cycle, curb the infection rates, stop people getting sick.

Well now, this is just nonsense. There is no definitive research that day 3 is more optimal than day 2. Irrespective, this bananas approach of quarantining children with this thing is illogical. Who is it protecting?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 01:09:57 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 09, 2021, 01:04:37 PM

Well now, this is just nonsense. There is no definitive research that day 3 is more optimal than day 2. Irrespective, this bananas approach of quarantining children with this thing is illogical. Who is it protecting?

It is protecting no one just causing chaos in the communities.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 09, 2021, 01:30:10 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 09, 2021, 12:53:31 PM
A primary school in Co Derry has asked parents of P3s to come and lift their children.

id say naw
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on September 09, 2021, 01:53:49 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 01:09:57 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 09, 2021, 01:04:37 PM

Well now, this is just nonsense. There is no definitive research that day 3 is more optimal than day 2. Irrespective, this bananas approach of quarantining children with this thing is illogical. Who is it protecting?

It is protecting no one just causing chaos in the communities.

That proves my point - they dont know what is the opitmal day to test , but you think it is okay to congregrate in a classroom of 30 !

By isolating, you are protecting that same community and reducing covid cases , surely the target is to get case numbers as low as possible. I appreciate that is a tough ask , but by staggering covid cases in a school community over a 6 - 18 day period , it isnt the solution either
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 02:03:20 PM
Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 01:53:49 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 01:09:57 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 09, 2021, 01:04:37 PM

Well now, this is just nonsense. There is no definitive research that day 3 is more optimal than day 2. Irrespective, this bananas approach of quarantining children with this thing is illogical. Who is it protecting?

It is protecting no one just causing chaos in the communities.

That proves my point - they dont know what is the opitmal day to test , but you think it is okay to congregrate in a classroom of 30 !

By isolating, you are protecting that same community and reducing covid cases , surely the target is to get case numbers as low as possible. I appreciate that is a tough ask , but by staggering covid cases in a school community over a 6 - 18 day period , it isnt the solution either

Care to address this?

Quote from: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 12:03:35 PM

The close contacts are based on seating arrangements in a class, what about the bus to school the bus home - it's nonsensical and it's breaking no cycle - child A is a close contact of child B and is told to isolate for 10 days, day 11 Child A is a close contact of child C and again has to isolate for 10 days - you see what is happening here - complete shit show!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cobra on September 09, 2021, 02:03:31 PM
Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 01:53:49 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 01:09:57 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 09, 2021, 01:04:37 PM

Well now, this is just nonsense. There is no definitive research that day 3 is more optimal than day 2. Irrespective, this bananas approach of quarantining children with this thing is illogical. Who is it protecting?

It is protecting no one just causing chaos in the communities.

That proves my point - they dont know what is the opitmal day to test , but you think it is okay to congregrate in a classroom of 30 !

By isolating, you are protecting that same community and reducing covid cases , surely the target is to get case numbers as low as possible. I appreciate that is a tough ask , but by staggering covid cases in a school community over a 6 - 18 day period , it isnt the solution either

And for how long should this continue? Indefinitely?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 02:05:52 PM
Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 01:53:49 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 01:09:57 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 09, 2021, 01:04:37 PM

Well now, this is just nonsense. There is no definitive research that day 3 is more optimal than day 2. Irrespective, this bananas approach of quarantining children with this thing is illogical. Who is it protecting?

It is protecting no one just causing chaos in the communities.

That proves my point - they dont know what is the opitmal day to test , but you think it is okay to congregrate in a classroom of 30 !

By isolating, you are protecting that same community and reducing covid cases , surely the target is to get case numbers as low as possible. I appreciate that is a tough ask , but by staggering covid cases in a school community over a 6 - 18 day period , it isnt the solution either

Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 11:32:44 AM

Close contacts out for 10 days - IS the easiest way to manage in school. Straight forward to sort & manage !

You are looking children who have tested negative to keep isolating for 10 days - can you explain why apart from it is easiest for the school?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: the goal was on on September 09, 2021, 02:26:23 PM
If your negative you should be able to return. Otherwise we are never gonna some sort of normality back.
Unfair some schools following guidance and others not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 09, 2021, 03:53:23 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 09, 2021, 01:04:37 PM
Well now, this is just nonsense. There is no definitive research that day 3 is more optimal than day 2. Irrespective, this bananas approach of quarantining children with this thing is illogical. Who is it protecting?

It is protecting the people who do not have Covid and don't want it.
There is little choice in relation to sending home, but testing should be timely so that they can come back.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on September 09, 2021, 04:01:05 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 02:05:52 PM
Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 01:53:49 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 01:09:57 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 09, 2021, 01:04:37 PM

Well now, this is just nonsense. There is no definitive research that day 3 is more optimal than day 2. Irrespective, this bananas approach of quarantining children with this thing is illogical. Who is it protecting?

It is protecting no one just causing chaos in the communities.

That proves my point - they dont know what is the opitmal day to test , but you think it is okay to congregrate in a classroom of 30 !

By isolating, you are protecting that same community and reducing covid cases , surely the target is to get case numbers as low as possible. I appreciate that is a tough ask , but by staggering covid cases in a school community over a 6 - 18 day period , it isnt the solution either

Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 11:32:44 AM

Close contacts out for 10 days - IS the easiest way to manage in school. Straight forward to sort & manage !

You are looking children who have tested negative to keep isolating for 10 days - can you explain why apart from it is easiest for the school?

Yes because the PCR test could be -ve on Day 2 but +ve on Day 3, how can you determine what is safe for every child in a class.?  Most children are asymptomatic ...which is another problem.
Covid cases numbers arent coming down that significantly either
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: the goal was on on September 09, 2021, 04:40:45 PM
The high number of cases has been a result of our shitshow of a government. We def could have controlled cases better in summer but they chose to go underground for months and some of them even declared we're near the end last may!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on September 09, 2021, 04:58:21 PM
Just going by the Dept Of Educations letter to principals today, in studies conducted by close contact tracing in England & Scotland in the 2020/21 school year in post primary schools 97% of those sent home to isolate as close contacts did not become positive Covid cases
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 09, 2021, 05:01:25 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on September 09, 2021, 04:58:21 PM
Just going by the Dept Of Educations letter to principals today, in studies conducted by close contact tracing in England & Scotland in the 2020/21 school year in post primary schools 97% of those sent home to isolate as close contacts did not become positive Covid cases

and if you knew who the 3% were then you could jusr send them home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on September 09, 2021, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 09, 2021, 05:01:25 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on September 09, 2021, 04:58:21 PM
Just going by the Dept Of Educations letter to principals today, in studies conducted by close contact tracing in England & Scotland in the 2020/21 school year in post primary schools 97% of those sent home to isolate as close contacts did not become positive Covid cases

and if you knew who the 3% were then you could jusr send them home.

No more full classes getting sent home going by that new approach
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 05:09:43 PM
Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 04:01:05 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 02:05:52 PM
Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 01:53:49 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 01:09:57 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 09, 2021, 01:04:37 PM

Well now, this is just nonsense. There is no definitive research that day 3 is more optimal than day 2. Irrespective, this bananas approach of quarantining children with this thing is illogical. Who is it protecting?

It is protecting no one just causing chaos in the communities.

That proves my point - they dont know what is the opitmal day to test , but you think it is okay to congregrate in a classroom of 30 !

By isolating, you are protecting that same community and reducing covid cases , surely the target is to get case numbers as low as possible. I appreciate that is a tough ask , but by staggering covid cases in a school community over a 6 - 18 day period , it isnt the solution either

Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 11:32:44 AM

Close contacts out for 10 days - IS the easiest way to manage in school. Straight forward to sort & manage !

You are looking children who have tested negative to keep isolating for 10 days - can you explain why apart from it is easiest for the school?

Yes because the PCR test could be -ve on Day 2 but +ve on Day 3, how can you determine what is safe for every child in a class.?  Most children are asymptomatic ...which is another problem.
Covid cases numbers arent coming down that significantly either

Many kids dying or in ICU, you would have the schools closed, when would you reopen when covid is wiped out?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 05:11:12 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 09, 2021, 05:09:19 PM
It's the "if you don't test for it, it doesn't exist" theory going into practice. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out.

Shit might you have to do some work now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 05:18:10 PM
It's always pathetic when a condescending teacher tries to be funny, they must think we are all children.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 09, 2021, 05:21:00 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 09, 2021, 05:14:13 PM
Of all the children who were supposed to be in front of me today only 89% actually were.

The snowball scene in Elf is my favourite.

Way too early for Elf, after half term you can put it on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 05:25:33 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 09, 2021, 05:18:42 PM
Are you raging?

I assume you are a student teacher. You must be still in the hormonal years to think anything you could say would enlist any emotion from anyone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 05:34:20 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 09, 2021, 05:30:28 PM
It's just that you are coming across as though you are raging.

Hopefully you ain't teaching anything of importance, kids would be as well at home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on September 09, 2021, 05:37:48 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 05:09:43 PM
Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 04:01:05 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 02:05:52 PM
Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 01:53:49 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 01:09:57 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 09, 2021, 01:04:37 PM

Well now, this is just nonsense. There is no definitive research that day 3 is more optimal than day 2. Irrespective, this bananas approach of quarantining children with this thing is illogical. Who is it protecting?

It is protecting no one just causing chaos in the communities.

That proves my point - they dont know what is the opitmal day to test , but you think it is okay to congregrate in a classroom of 30 !

By isolating, you are protecting that same community and reducing covid cases , surely the target is to get case numbers as low as possible. I appreciate that is a tough ask , but by staggering covid cases in a school community over a 6 - 18 day period , it isnt the solution either

Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 11:32:44 AM

Close contacts out for 10 days - IS the easiest way to manage in school. Straight forward to sort & manage !

You are looking children who have tested negative to keep isolating for 10 days - can you explain why apart from it is easiest for the school?

Yes because the PCR test could be -ve on Day 2 but +ve on Day 3, how can you determine what is safe for every child in a class.?  Most children are asymptomatic ...which is another problem.
Covid cases numbers arent coming down that significantly either

Many kids dying or in ICU, you would have the schools closed, when would you reopen when covid is wiped out?

I would isolate a class if positive case in it, which is a long way from closing a school.
I would maintain that position until +ve  case numbers are greatly reduced, rather than increasing as they seem to be doing !
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 05:41:17 PM
Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 05:37:48 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 05:09:43 PM
Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 04:01:05 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 02:05:52 PM
Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 01:53:49 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 01:09:57 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 09, 2021, 01:04:37 PM

Well now, this is just nonsense. There is no definitive research that day 3 is more optimal than day 2. Irrespective, this bananas approach of quarantining children with this thing is illogical. Who is it protecting?

It is protecting no one just causing chaos in the communities.

That proves my point - they dont know what is the opitmal day to test , but you think it is okay to congregrate in a classroom of 30 !

By isolating, you are protecting that same community and reducing covid cases , surely the target is to get case numbers as low as possible. I appreciate that is a tough ask , but by staggering covid cases in a school community over a 6 - 18 day period , it isnt the solution either

Quote from: delgany on September 09, 2021, 11:32:44 AM

Close contacts out for 10 days - IS the easiest way to manage in school. Straight forward to sort & manage !

You are looking children who have tested negative to keep isolating for 10 days - can you explain why apart from it is easiest for the school?

Yes because the PCR test could be -ve on Day 2 but +ve on Day 3, how can you determine what is safe for every child in a class.?  Most children are asymptomatic ...which is another problem.
Covid cases numbers arent coming down that significantly either

Many kids dying or in ICU, you would have the schools closed, when would you reopen when covid is wiped out?

I would isolate a class if positive case in it, which is a long way from closing a school.
I would maintain that position until +ve  case numbers are greatly reduced, rather than increasing as they seem to be doing !

This is gold, so a physics class has a positive case, the whole class is isolated for 10 days, what about the close contacts who were also in chemistry, maths, English etc. that same day?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 05:42:29 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 09, 2021, 05:39:48 PM
Quote from: TMAC on September 09, 2021, 05:34:20 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 09, 2021, 05:30:28 PM
It's just that you are coming across as though you are raging.

Hopefully you ain't teaching anything of importance, kids would be as well at home.
You are very abusive.

I hope for the sake of anyone close to you that you save this nasty side for internet discussion boards.

And for the sake of the kids you're more intelligent than you come across.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 09, 2021, 06:13:24 PM
What way will public health taking over the school isolation stuff impact stuff Duine inteacht eile? Will that be better or worse do you think?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cobra on September 10, 2021, 09:55:43 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58512257

McBride more or less saying Teachers should be vaccinated and there's no risk to the kids. I agree. Time to get on with the business of teaching.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on September 10, 2021, 12:40:29 PM
I have a 16 month old grand daughter running a high temperature, loose mucous cough and inflamed ear. Our GP refuses to see her without a negative PCR. Where do you start to get a successful swab from an infant. Is it just me thinking that the GPs are the biggest cowards in all of this. The less we are beholding to them the better!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tiempo on September 10, 2021, 01:38:02 PM
Quote from: Last Man on September 10, 2021, 12:40:29 PM
I have a 16 month old grand daughter running a high temperature, loose mucous cough and inflamed ear. Our GP refuses to see her without a negative PCR. Where do you start to get a successful swab from an infant. Is it just me thinking that the GPs are the biggest cowards in all of this. The less we are beholding to them the better!

That clown should be reported
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 10, 2021, 01:53:56 PM
Quote from: Last Man on September 10, 2021, 12:40:29 PM
I have a 16 month old grand daughter running a high temperature, loose mucous cough and inflamed ear. Our GP refuses to see her without a negative PCR. Where do you start to get a successful swab from an infant. Is it just me thinking that the GPs are the biggest cowards in all of this. The less we are beholding to them the better!

You just do the nose at that age. (Also that is horrendous)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on September 10, 2021, 03:56:09 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on September 09, 2021, 05:09:19 PM
It's the "if you don't test for it, it doesn't exist" theory going into practice. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out.
Sure if we'd done that from the start there wouldn't have been a "pandemic".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on September 10, 2021, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: Last Man on September 10, 2021, 12:40:29 PM
I have a 16 month old grand daughter running a high temperature, loose mucous cough and inflamed ear. Our GP refuses to see her without a negative PCR. Where do you start to get a successful swab from an infant. Is it just me thinking that the GPs are the biggest cowards in all of this. The less we are beholding to them the better!
The NHS model means that
GPs manage the vast majority of patients in the health service. In 1 week up to 10% of the population contact their Gp surgery. A tiny percentage of these end up in other parts of the health service  eg A&e . So GPs are doing a poorly understood but massively important job . Though politicians don't say it, one of the biggest problems for the NHS is that some members of the public overuse and abuse the NHS , they fail to see the bigger picture, and use The NHS selfishly and irresponsibly. It's not the fault of those working in the NHS that it has been massively underfunded and underresourced over several years, which has left us Ill equipped to deal with this pandemic.
It is essential therefore to keep the NHS functional , GPs continue to function. For example , Thousands of children have temperatures at this time of the year, and most of them do not need to see a GP who need to prioritise the more serious cases. If GPs drop their threshold for seeing patients ,Covid could spread in Gp surgeries and the service would collapse and therefore more pressure in A&e etc. GPs are being responsible , not lazy or cowardly . Unfortunately this pandemic has resulted in people getting the boot into the Likes of teachers, and GPs, and this is creating an unhelpful negative culture which puts further pressure on health and education . I don't know anyone working in health or education during this pandemic who has not tried their very best. Just because they don't meet selfish, poorly informed and unrealistic expectations of some members of the public , doesn't mean they are "cowards " . We have massive challenges going forward , everyone needs to pitch in,  for many who don't actually work in health or education, they can make their own contribution by supporting those on the ground rather than getting the boot into them. Thankfully most members of the public support health and education services, those that are unfairly negative need to reflect .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 10, 2021, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: tiempo on September 10, 2021, 01:38:02 PM
Quote from: Last Man on September 10, 2021, 12:40:29 PM
I have a 16 month old grand daughter running a high temperature, loose mucous cough and inflamed ear. Our GP refuses to see her without a negative PCR. Where do you start to get a successful swab from an infant. Is it just me thinking that the GPs are the biggest cowards in all of this. The less we are beholding to them the better!

That clown should be reported

Should be commended for doing his job. It isn't mainly a question of the GP getting Covid, it is a question of the GP giving Covid to the people he deals with, all of which are sick by definition. Even in the most optimistic scenario and the GP tests himself before he infects anyone else then he is off for a week or 10 days and all the other grandchildren will not have any GP to go and see.
Some people need to get a grip.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on September 10, 2021, 11:39:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 10, 2021, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: tiempo on September 10, 2021, 01:38:02 PM
Quote from: Last Man on September 10, 2021, 12:40:29 PM
I have a 16 month old grand daughter running a high temperature, loose mucous cough and inflamed ear. Our GP refuses to see her without a negative PCR. Where do you start to get a successful swab from an infant. Is it just me thinking that the GPs are the biggest cowards in all of this. The less we are beholding to them the better!

That clown should be reported

Should be commended for doing his job. It isn't mainly a question of the GP getting Covid, it is a question of the GP giving Covid to the people he deals with, all of which are sick by definition. Even in the most optimistic scenario and the GP tests himself before he infects anyone else then he is off for a week or 10 days and all the other grandchildren will not have any GP to go and see.
Some people need to get a grip.

I know of a case recently where half a surgery was out of action because of the actions of one covidiot. Do you know the effect that has on service to people in that area?  The GP is absolutely right.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on September 10, 2021, 11:41:37 PM
Quote from: Last Man on September 10, 2021, 12:40:29 PM
I have a 16 month old grand daughter running a high temperature, loose mucous cough and inflamed ear. Our GP refuses to see her without a negative PCR. Where do you start to get a successful swab from an infant. Is it just me thinking that the GPs are the biggest cowards in all of this. The less we are beholding to them the better!

If she has symptoms of covid you take her to the covid specific centre, not your GP practice. If you are Hightown, Belfast, your nearest one in guessing is A/town.

Try taking her to the dentist, hospital or any other healthcare setting when she has those symptoms and see what happens!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on September 12, 2021, 12:23:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 10, 2021, 11:41:37 PM
Quote from: Last Man on September 10, 2021, 12:40:29 PM
I have a 16 month old grand daughter running a high temperature, loose mucous cough and inflamed ear. Our GP refuses to see her without a negative PCR. Where do you start to get a successful swab from an infant. Is it just me thinking that the GPs are the biggest cowards in all of this. The less we are beholding to them the better!

If she has symptoms of covid you take her to the covid specific centre, not your GP practice. If you are Hightown, Belfast, your nearest one in guessing is A/town.

Try taking her to the dentist, hospital or any other healthcare setting when she has those symptoms and see what happens!
Cant the doctor put a mask and gloves on? They stop transmission don't they!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on September 12, 2021, 02:02:51 PM
Quote from: Last Man on September 12, 2021, 12:23:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 10, 2021, 11:41:37 PM
Quote from: Last Man on September 10, 2021, 12:40:29 PM
I have a 16 month old grand daughter running a high temperature, loose mucous cough and inflamed ear. Our GP refuses to see her without a negative PCR. Where do you start to get a successful swab from an infant. Is it just me thinking that the GPs are the biggest cowards in all of this. The less we are beholding to them the better!

If she has symptoms of covid you take her to the covid specific centre, not your GP practice. If you are Hightown, Belfast, your nearest one in guessing is A/town.

Try taking her to the dentist, hospital or any other healthcare setting when she has those symptoms and see what happens!
Cant the doctor put a mask and gloves on? They stop transmission don't they!

No and I don't think anyone ever said they stop the spread 100%? They just reduce it. GPs do not have access to fit tested PPE the way they do in the covid centres. That is why anyone with symptoms is sent there.

I think the health board need to do more to explain to people why GP surgeries need to run differently now. There seems to be a social media vendetta against them that Dentists, hospital outpatient clinics etc have completely escaped.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 12, 2021, 02:40:22 PM
Dentists have had quite a run on social media too. Many of them seem to be using this as an opportunity to go fully private and ditch NHS patients. My own dentist is more than happy to work on me for a few hundred quid but I can't get the kids a checkup for the first time in guts of 2 years.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on September 12, 2021, 02:51:54 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 12, 2021, 02:40:22 PM
Dentists have had quite a run on social media too. Many of them seem to be using this as an opportunity to go fully private and ditch NHS patients. My own dentist is more than happy to work on me for a few hundred quid but I can't get the kids a checkup for the first time in guts of 2 years.

I had a private checkup in June, had to book it in April. Stuff like the scale/polish isn't being done at the minute as they would have to close the room for an hour after to allow respiratory droplets to settle. Hospital outpatient clinics stopped completely for a long time and are slowly coming back, mostly by telephone. Visitations to inpatients is basically banned unless they are terminal. For births, partners are only brought in for the final stage of labour and have to leave afterwards, they don't get near the maternity ward.

I can understand why people are frustrated they find it difficult to get a face to face with their GP, but unfortunately that's the world at the minute. It is not your GPs fault.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on September 12, 2021, 02:52:56 PM
Quote from: Last Man on September 12, 2021, 12:23:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 10, 2021, 11:41:37 PM
Quote from: Last Man on September 10, 2021, 12:40:29 PM
I have a 16 month old grand daughter running a high temperature, loose mucous cough and inflamed ear. Our GP refuses to see her without a negative PCR. Where do you start to get a successful swab from an infant. Is it just me thinking that the GPs are the biggest cowards in all of this. The less we are beholding to them the better!

If she has symptoms of covid you take her to the covid specific centre, not your GP practice. If you are Hightown, Belfast, your nearest one in guessing is A/town.

Try taking her to the dentist, hospital or any other healthcare setting when she has those symptoms and see what happens!
Cant the doctor put a mask and gloves on? They stop transmission don't they!
Most people with a temperature do not need to see a GP. A Covid safe consultation takes up considerable resources. If GPs provide this for everyone with a fever the system would break , and most importantly those that really need an appointment or telephone consultation have to wait longer. The problem with the NHS is that some people with minor complaints have unrealistic expectations of a poorly resourced NHS, putting it under pressure. Until it is properly resourced the public need to be careful not to abuse it , to allow the NHS to prioritise those that need it most.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 12, 2021, 05:13:22 PM
ROI weekly update. Lowest weekly case number in 6 weeks and we had the highest testing weekly figure since mid January. Improvement on the hospital situation also.

9883 cases (629 fewer cases than last week)
315 in hospital (47 fewer than last Sunday)
59 are in ICU (no change)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 12, 2021, 05:17:20 PM
These numbers are going in the right direction. But it wouldn't surprise me if the opening of third level colleges drove it up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 12, 2021, 05:19:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 12, 2021, 02:51:54 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 12, 2021, 02:40:22 PM
Dentists have had quite a run on social media too. Many of them seem to be using this as an opportunity to go fully private and ditch NHS patients. My own dentist is more than happy to work on me for a few hundred quid but I can't get the kids a checkup for the first time in guts of 2 years.

I had a private checkup in June, had to book it in April. Stuff like the scale/polish isn't being done at the minute as they would have to close the room for an hour after to allow respiratory droplets to settle. Hospital outpatient clinics stopped completely for a long time and are slowly coming back, mostly by telephone. Visitations to inpatients is basically banned unless they are terminal. For births, partners are only brought in for the final stage of labour and have to leave afterwards, they don't get near the maternity ward.

I can understand why people are frustrated they find it difficult to get a face to face with their GP, but unfortunately that's the world at the minute. It is not your GPs fault.
Our GP surgery has been spot on but it's a relatively small (3 doctor) country surgery. Amongst the family we have had several callbacks via video or asked to send photos with option for a F2F if required. Had no complaints but the biggest complaint in the public, and one that I think is valid, is that lack of F2F every time means that GPS won't pick up on things that weren't the reason for the initial consultation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 19, 2021, 04:29:54 PM
ROI weekly update. Another decent week

9245 cases (638 fewer cases than last week)
278 in hospital (37 fewer than a week ago)
63 in ICU  (4 more than last Sunday)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 12:32:41 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on September 19, 2021, 04:29:54 PM
ROI weekly update. Another decent week

9245 cases (638 fewer cases than last week)
278 in hospital (37 fewer than a week ago)
63 in ICU  (4 more than last Sunday)
I've been watching the stats lately wondering why NI was having regular reports of daily single figure deaths and there were none from ROI, has it just been a case of them not being widely reported? I downloaded the ROI Covid tracker app to get the EU digi Vaccine Certificate & it gives you the death stats on it - 24 deaths last week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on September 20, 2021, 01:15:28 PM
1/5 of care home workers in the North unvaccinated. Hard to get the head around that stat
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 20, 2021, 01:19:58 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 12:32:41 PM
I've been watching the stats lately wondering why NI was having regular reports of daily single figure deaths and there were none from ROI, has it just been a case of them not being widely reported? I downloaded the ROI Covid tracker app to get the EU digi Vaccine Certificate & it gives you the death stats on it - 24 deaths last week.

The ROI has not reported daily figures recently, which is perhaps no harm. Deaths per week have been little more than half in the North, which when you adjust for population it means the North is 4 or 5 times the rate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 20, 2021, 02:09:58 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 12:32:41 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on September 19, 2021, 04:29:54 PM
ROI weekly update. Another decent week

9245 cases (638 fewer cases than last week)
278 in hospital (37 fewer than a week ago)
63 in ICU  (4 more than last Sunday)
I've been watching the stats lately wondering why NI was having regular reports of daily single figure deaths and there were none from ROI, has it just been a case of them not being widely reported? I downloaded the ROI Covid tracker app to get the EU digi Vaccine Certificate & it gives you the death stats on it - 24 deaths last week.

They stopped reporting daily death stats here since the hack. A random day is chosen now for weekly reported deaths and some of them are from this month or a few months ago.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
I've lost faith in Covid death stats, I personally know of 4 people who have died in the past 3 weeks, 2 x Cancer, 1 x Alzhemiers and 1x (very) old age who've all went down as Covid stats and it was no more Covid that killed them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on September 20, 2021, 02:35:20 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
I've lost faith in Covid death stats, I personally know of 4 people who have died in the past 3 weeks, 2 x Cancer, 1 x Alzhemiers and 1x (very) old age who've all went down as Covid stats and it was no more Covid that killed them.

I lost faith in  the daily death figure over a year ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on September 20, 2021, 02:39:11 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
I've lost faith in Covid death stats, I personally know of 4 people who have died in the past 3 weeks, 2 x Cancer, 1 x Alzhemiers and 1x (very) old age who've all went down as Covid stats and it was no more Covid that killed them.

Would they have died if they hadn't contracted Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 20, 2021, 02:40:18 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
I've lost faith in Covid death stats, I personally know of 4 people who have died in the past 3 weeks, 2 x Cancer, 1 x Alzhemiers and 1x (very) old age who've all went down as Covid stats and it was no more Covid that killed them.

Perhaps 1% of people have Covid at any one time, maybe 3% in a month, and so you would expect perhaps 30-40 people to die each month with Covid, who perhaps were not killed by it. However, the rate in NI is that number of deaths each week because the likes of that DUP guy and other people in their 30s and 40s are dying.
As the Covid rate falls the stats become increasingly hard to follow, but I think NI is still above that level. Probably few enough are dying of Covid in the South.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on September 20, 2021, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
I've lost faith in Covid death stats, I personally know of 4 people who have died in the past 3 weeks, 2 x Cancer, 1 x Alzhemiers and 1x (very) old age who've all went down as Covid stats and it was no more Covid that killed them.

I know at least 10 people who've died of Covid in the last 6 months who haven't been included in the Covid stats. That's because they had Covid and went into hospital. They got out of hospital a couple of weeks later but didn't really recover and had to go back into hospital about 5 or 6 weeks later. They then didn't recover. Because they were outside the 28 days they're not included. It's been calculated that 40% of people who get out of ICU with Covid are readmitted to hospital within a month. A large percentage of these people then go on to die. They've not been included in the stats so the number of deaths from Covid is much higher than the official figures.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:46:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2021, 02:39:11 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
I've lost faith in Covid death stats, I personally know of 4 people who have died in the past 3 weeks, 2 x Cancer, 1 x Alzhemiers and 1x (very) old age who've all went down as Covid stats and it was no more Covid that killed them.

Would they have died if they hadn't contracted Covid?
IMO yes. Deaths are recorded in NI as Covid deaths if you've had covid (at all) 28 days prior to death. Is that the same metric used for recording 'Covid' deaths in the US & ROI?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 20, 2021, 02:49:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 20, 2021, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
I've lost faith in Covid death stats, I personally know of 4 people who have died in the past 3 weeks, 2 x Cancer, 1 x Alzhemiers and 1x (very) old age who've all went down as Covid stats and it was no more Covid that killed them.

I know at least 10 people who've died of Covid in the last 6 months who haven't been included in the Covid stats. That's because they had Covid and went into hospital. They got out of hospital a couple of weeks later but didn't really recover and had to go back into hospital about 5 or 6 weeks later. They then didn't recover. Because they were outside the 28 days they're not included. It's been calculated that 40% of people who get out of ICU with Covid are readmitted to hospital within a month. A large percentage of these people then go on to die. They've not been included in the stats so the number of deaths from Covid is much higher than the official figures.

Unless you work directly for an organisation that provides support for people with poor immune systems, I don't believe you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:52:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 20, 2021, 02:40:18 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
I've lost faith in Covid death stats, I personally know of 4 people who have died in the past 3 weeks, 2 x Cancer, 1 x Alzhemiers and 1x (very) old age who've all went down as Covid stats and it was no more Covid that killed them.

Perhaps 1% of people have Covid at any one time, maybe 3% in a month, and so you would expect perhaps 30-40 people to die each month with Covid, who perhaps were not killed by it. However, the rate in NI is that number of deaths each week because the likes of that DUP guy and other people in their 30s and 40s are dying.
As the Covid rate falls the stats become increasingly hard to follow, but I think NI is still above that level. Probably few enough are dying of Covid in the South.
Huge swathes of people (across the divide) in NI don't give a flying f**k about Covid. It's embarrassing, & sad that pigheadedness will be the end of a lot of people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on September 20, 2021, 03:04:20 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 12:32:41 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on September 19, 2021, 04:29:54 PM
ROI weekly update. Another decent week

9245 cases (638 fewer cases than last week)
278 in hospital (37 fewer than a week ago)
63 in ICU  (4 more than last Sunday)
I've been watching the stats lately wondering why NI was having regular reports of daily single figure deaths and there were none from ROI, has it just been a case of them not being widely reported? I downloaded the ROI Covid tracker app to get the EU digi Vaccine Certificate & it gives you the death stats on it - 24 deaths last week.
How did you get on with this Benny? Is it up and running for Irish passport holders in the north to download the EU cert?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 03:12:36 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on September 20, 2021, 03:04:20 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 12:32:41 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on September 19, 2021, 04:29:54 PM
ROI weekly update. Another decent week

9245 cases (638 fewer cases than last week)
278 in hospital (37 fewer than a week ago)
63 in ICU  (4 more than last Sunday)
I've been watching the stats lately wondering why NI was having regular reports of daily single figure deaths and there were none from ROI, has it just been a case of them not being widely reported? I downloaded the ROI Covid tracker app to get the EU digi Vaccine Certificate & it gives you the death stats on it - 24 deaths last week.
How did you get on with this Benny? Is it up and running for Irish passport holders in the north to download the EU cert?
Yeah, check the holiday thread fior details
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on September 20, 2021, 03:28:42 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
I've lost faith in Covid death stats, I personally know of 4 people who have died in the past 3 weeks, 2 x Cancer, 1 x Alzhemiers and 1x (very) old age who've all went down as Covid stats and it was no more Covid that killed them.

How did you get access to the cause of death of these people?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 03:47:07 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on September 20, 2021, 03:28:42 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
I've lost faith in Covid death stats, I personally know of 4 people who have died in the past 3 weeks, 2 x Cancer, 1 x Alzhemiers and 1x (very) old age who've all went down as Covid stats and it was no more Covid that killed them.

How did you get access to the cause of death of these people?
Friends and family of friends unfortunately, but a lovely question all the same, the sort you wouldn't say to a person's face, but hey you scored an Internet win
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on September 20, 2021, 03:50:01 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:46:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2021, 02:39:11 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
I've lost faith in Covid death stats, I personally know of 4 people who have died in the past 3 weeks, 2 x Cancer, 1 x Alzhemiers and 1x (very) old age who've all went down as Covid stats and it was no more Covid that killed them.

Would they have died if they hadn't contracted Covid?
IMO yes. Deaths are recorded in NI as Covid deaths if you've had covid (at all) 28 days prior to death. Is that the same metric used for recording 'Covid' deaths in the US & ROI?

I've no idea what the medical practices for recording Covid deaths are in the US or Ireland.

But I do know that there are a multitude of illnesses which are routinely recorded as being responsible for the deaths of already medically vulnerable people which have never aroused this type of controversy.

Not having a go at you, but what's the point (and I've asked this here before)? Unless someone dies from something clearly completely unrelated like a gunshot or a parachute failing to open, then why would you discount the contribution of Covid, a very serious illness in many, particularly those already medically vulnerable? Regular old flu kills thousands of people every year who may be geriatric or immunocompromised already. Are we going to start discounting flu as a cause of death?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 04:11:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2021, 03:50:01 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:46:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 20, 2021, 02:39:11 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
I've lost faith in Covid death stats, I personally know of 4 people who have died in the past 3 weeks, 2 x Cancer, 1 x Alzhemiers and 1x (very) old age who've all went down as Covid stats and it was no more Covid that killed them.

Would they have died if they hadn't contracted Covid?
IMO yes. Deaths are recorded in NI as Covid deaths if you've had covid (at all) 28 days prior to death. Is that the same metric used for recording 'Covid' deaths in the US & ROI?

I've no idea what the medical practices for recording Covid deaths are in the US or Ireland.

But I do know that there are a multitude of illnesses which are routinely recorded as being responsible for the deaths of already medically vulnerable people which have never aroused this type of controversy.

Not having a go at you, but what's the point (and I've asked this here before)? Unless someone dies from something clearly completely unrelated like a gunshot or a parachute failing to open, then why would you discount the contribution of Covid, a very serious illness in many, particularly those already medically vulnerable? Regular old flu kills thousands of people every year who may be geriatric or immunocompromised already. Are we going to start discounting flu as a cause of death?
True.  I see the bigger picture, just lost a bit of faith after recent experiences (& it's not close family btw), also looking to know if NI's way of recording deaths is an outlier or standard practice. A quick Google of the US suggests a lot of Red v Blue nonsense (shock), can't find info on ROI
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 20, 2021, 04:18:38 PM
ROI have reported deaths in the way The WHO has asked counties to report them but few has done it that way.

Basically every possible and probable death is reported as a covid death.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 20, 2021, 04:43:22 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:52:50 PM
Huge swathes of people (across the divide) in NI don't give a flying f**k about Covid. It's embarrassing, & sad that pigheadedness will be the end of a lot of people.

You have cases like this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58575722
these were home helps and they could have brought down some elderly people with them.

People like to be a bit thran, probably including myself, but this is entirely the wrong issue to make a stand on. It can literally be life or death.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on September 20, 2021, 04:48:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 20, 2021, 02:49:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 20, 2021, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
I've lost faith in Covid death stats, I personally know of 4 people who have died in the past 3 weeks, 2 x Cancer, 1 x Alzhemiers and 1x (very) old age who've all went down as Covid stats and it was no more Covid that killed them.

I know at least 10 people who've died of Covid in the last 6 months who haven't been included in the Covid stats. That's because they had Covid and went into hospital. They got out of hospital a couple of weeks later but didn't really recover and had to go back into hospital about 5 or 6 weeks later. They then didn't recover. Because they were outside the 28 days they're not included. It's been calculated that 40% of people who get out of ICU with Covid are readmitted to hospital within a month. A large percentage of these people then go on to die. They've not been included in the stats so the number of deaths from Covid is much higher than the official figures.

Unless you work directly for an organisation that provides support for people with poor immune systems, I don't believe you.

Here is an article which backs up my stats. I've seen other articles where these figures are higher so my original percentages are higher than they should be. The point remains that the number of covid deaths is way, way underestimated.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/18/almost-30-of-covid-patients-in-england-re-admitted-to-hospital-after-discharge-study

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on September 20, 2021, 04:57:53 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 20, 2021, 04:48:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 20, 2021, 02:49:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 20, 2021, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
I've lost faith in Covid death stats, I personally know of 4 people who have died in the past 3 weeks, 2 x Cancer, 1 x Alzhemiers and 1x (very) old age who've all went down as Covid stats and it was no more Covid that killed them.

I know at least 10 people who've died of Covid in the last 6 months who haven't been included in the Covid stats. That's because they had Covid and went into hospital. They got out of hospital a couple of weeks later but didn't really recover and had to go back into hospital about 5 or 6 weeks later. They then didn't recover. Because they were outside the 28 days they're not included. It's been calculated that 40% of people who get out of ICU with Covid are readmitted to hospital within a month. A large percentage of these people then go on to die. They've not been included in the stats so the number of deaths from Covid is much higher than the official figures.

Unless you work directly for an organisation that provides support for people with poor immune systems, I don't believe you.

Here is an article which backs up my stats. I've seen other articles where these figures are higher so my original percentages are higher than they should be. The point remains that the number of covid deaths is way, way underestimated

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/18/almost-30-of-covid-patients-in-england-re-admitted-to-hospital-after-discharge-study



No I don't think so. My guess is that you've decided to follow such a narrative and will actively seek out any data, sensechecked or not, to prove yourself right to yourself.

It's an awful shame that people can't die of old anymore.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on September 20, 2021, 05:32:55 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 20, 2021, 04:57:53 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 20, 2021, 04:48:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 20, 2021, 02:49:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 20, 2021, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
I've lost faith in Covid death stats, I personally know of 4 people who have died in the past 3 weeks, 2 x Cancer, 1 x Alzhemiers and 1x (very) old age who've all went down as Covid stats and it was no more Covid that killed them.

I know at least 10 people who've died of Covid in the last 6 months who haven't been included in the Covid stats. That's because they had Covid and went into hospital. They got out of hospital a couple of weeks later but didn't really recover and had to go back into hospital about 5 or 6 weeks later. They then didn't recover. Because they were outside the 28 days they're not included. It's been calculated that 40% of people who get out of ICU with Covid are readmitted to hospital within a month. A large percentage of these people then go on to die. They've not been included in the stats so the number of deaths from Covid is much higher than the official figures.

Unless you work directly for an organisation that provides support for people with poor immune systems, I don't believe you.

Here is an article which backs up my stats. I've seen other articles where these figures are higher so my original percentages are higher than they should be. The point remains that the number of covid deaths is way, way underestimated

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/18/almost-30-of-covid-patients-in-england-re-admitted-to-hospital-after-discharge-study



No I don't think so. My guess is that you've decided to follow such a narrative and will actively seek out any data, sensechecked or not, to prove yourself right to yourself.

It's an awful shame that people can't die of old anymore.

lol, so you know better than a study printed in the guardian and other medical journals. Just because something doesn't fit your narrative and you'd like it not to be true, that doesn't make it not true. Everyone would like things to go back to the old normal but until more people are vaccinated everyone should be taking all precautions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on September 20, 2021, 05:45:08 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 20, 2021, 04:57:53 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 20, 2021, 04:48:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 20, 2021, 02:49:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 20, 2021, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
I've lost faith in Covid death stats, I personally know of 4 people who have died in the past 3 weeks, 2 x Cancer, 1 x Alzhemiers and 1x (very) old age who've all went down as Covid stats and it was no more Covid that killed them.

I know at least 10 people who've died of Covid in the last 6 months who haven't been included in the Covid stats. That's because they had Covid and went into hospital. They got out of hospital a couple of weeks later but didn't really recover and had to go back into hospital about 5 or 6 weeks later. They then didn't recover. Because they were outside the 28 days they're not included. It's been calculated that 40% of people who get out of ICU with Covid are readmitted to hospital within a month. A large percentage of these people then go on to die. They've not been included in the stats so the number of deaths from Covid is much higher than the official figures.

Unless you work directly for an organisation that provides support for people with poor immune systems, I don't believe you.

Here is an article which backs up my stats. I've seen other articles where these figures are higher so my original percentages are higher than they should be. The point remains that the number of covid deaths is way, way underestimated

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/18/almost-30-of-covid-patients-in-england-re-admitted-to-hospital-after-discharge-study



No I don't think so. My guess is that you've decided to follow such a narrative and will actively seek out any data, sensechecked or not, to prove yourself right to yourself.

It's an awful shame that people can't die of old anymore.

People could never officially have "Old" on their death certificate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 20, 2021, 06:34:40 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 20, 2021, 04:48:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 20, 2021, 02:49:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 20, 2021, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on September 20, 2021, 02:18:52 PM
I've lost faith in Covid death stats, I personally know of 4 people who have died in the past 3 weeks, 2 x Cancer, 1 x Alzhemiers and 1x (very) old age who've all went down as Covid stats and it was no more Covid that killed them.

I know at least 10 people who've died of Covid in the last 6 months who haven't been included in the Covid stats. That's because they had Covid and went into hospital. They got out of hospital a couple of weeks later but didn't really recover and had to go back into hospital about 5 or 6 weeks later. They then didn't recover. Because they were outside the 28 days they're not included. It's been calculated that 40% of people who get out of ICU with Covid are readmitted to hospital within a month. A large percentage of these people then go on to die. They've not been included in the stats so the number of deaths from Covid is much higher than the official figures.

Unless you work directly for an organisation that provides support for people with poor immune systems, I don't believe you.

Here is an article which backs up my stats. I've seen other articles where these figures are higher so my original percentages are higher than they should be. The point remains that the number of covid deaths is way, way underestimated.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/18/almost-30-of-covid-patients-in-england-re-admitted-to-hospital-after-discharge-study

A study by The Economist magazine estimates the pandemic has caused over 15 (fifteen) million deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 20, 2021, 11:28:38 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 20, 2021, 04:57:53 PM

No I don't think so. My guess is that you've decided to follow such a narrative and will actively seek out any data, sensechecked or not, to prove yourself right to yourself.

It's an awful shame that people can't die of old anymore.

Excess deaths is the appropriate measure and there were excess deaths during the pandemic, with high rates back last APril in some countries, others had a later peak. This does make sense as it filters out those who would have died anyhow.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on September 21, 2021, 01:55:43 PM
Michelle O'Neill reckons it would be dishonest to rule out another lockdown apparently?

I can honestly say that Sinn Fein will never ever get another vote from me if that happens and I am probably one of their biggest supporters on here. Can't see a lockdown happening anyway because Boris won't want to pay for another one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 21, 2021, 01:59:24 PM
No money for it. Boris nearly has their hands tied.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 02:17:08 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 21, 2021, 01:55:43 PM
Michelle O'Neill reckons it would be dishonest to rule out another lockdown apparently?

I can honestly say that Sinn Fein will never ever get another vote from me if that happens and I am probably one of their biggest supporters on here. Can't see a lockdown happening anyway because Boris won't want to pay for another one.

Brown smelly sandle wing of SF taking over. Nobody can seem to explain to me why after 2 years we have no extra ICU beds but we can print money hand over fist for furlough
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on September 21, 2021, 02:26:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 02:17:08 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 21, 2021, 01:55:43 PM
Michelle O'Neill reckons it would be dishonest to rule out another lockdown apparently?

I can honestly say that Sinn Fein will never ever get another vote from me if that happens and I am probably one of their biggest supporters on here. Can't see a lockdown happening anyway because Boris won't want to pay for another one.

Brown smelly sandle wing of SF taking over. Nobody can seem to explain to me why after 2 years we have no extra ICU beds but we can print money hand over fist for furlough

Have we not been through this already, there is no one to staff them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on September 21, 2021, 02:31:12 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on September 21, 2021, 02:26:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 02:17:08 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 21, 2021, 01:55:43 PM
Michelle O'Neill reckons it would be dishonest to rule out another lockdown apparently?

I can honestly say that Sinn Fein will never ever get another vote from me if that happens and I am probably one of their biggest supporters on here. Can't see a lockdown happening anyway because Boris won't want to pay for another one.

Brown smelly sandle wing of SF taking over. Nobody can seem to explain to me why after 2 years we have no extra ICU beds but we can print money hand over fist for furlough

Have we not been through this already, there is no one to staff them.
I'd say if half the money that was threw at furlough etc was thrown at finding staff it'd be sorted..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on September 21, 2021, 02:45:34 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 21, 2021, 02:31:12 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on September 21, 2021, 02:26:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 02:17:08 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 21, 2021, 01:55:43 PM
Michelle O'Neill reckons it would be dishonest to rule out another lockdown apparently?

I can honestly say that Sinn Fein will never ever get another vote from me if that happens and I am probably one of their biggest supporters on here. Can't see a lockdown happening anyway because Boris won't want to pay for another one.

Brown smelly sandle wing of SF taking over. Nobody can seem to explain to me why after 2 years we have no extra ICU beds but we can print money hand over fist for furlough

Have we not been through this already, there is no one to staff them.
I'd say if half the money that was threw at furlough etc was thrown at finding staff it'd be sorted..

Eh? Medical professionals trained up in what, a few months? Or brought in from where in the middle of a pandemic? Maybe 'they' could through in an extra medical expertise chip in the booster jab
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 21, 2021, 02:52:10 PM
Nurses leaving in their droves and hard to employ as they are not paying them enough for the crap they take from unhappy NHS patients.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 02:54:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 21, 2021, 02:52:10 PM
Nurses leaving in their droves and hard to employ as they are not paying them enough for the crap they take from unhappy NHS patients.

100% or going across to England for agency work
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 02:56:10 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on September 21, 2021, 02:26:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 02:17:08 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 21, 2021, 01:55:43 PM
Michelle O'Neill reckons it would be dishonest to rule out another lockdown apparently?

I can honestly say that Sinn Fein will never ever get another vote from me if that happens and I am probably one of their biggest supporters on here. Can't see a lockdown happening anyway because Boris won't want to pay for another one.

Brown smelly sandle wing of SF taking over. Nobody can seem to explain to me why after 2 years we have no extra ICU beds but we can print money hand over fist for furlough

Have we not been through this already, there is no one to staff them.

Yeah well if MON hadnt stopped wage rise a few years ago and gave nurses some decent respect. They havent done anything at Stormont since then to improve working conditions
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 02:57:56 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 21, 2021, 02:45:34 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 21, 2021, 02:31:12 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on September 21, 2021, 02:26:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 02:17:08 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 21, 2021, 01:55:43 PM
Michelle O'Neill reckons it would be dishonest to rule out another lockdown apparently?

I can honestly say that Sinn Fein will never ever get another vote from me if that happens and I am probably one of their biggest supporters on here. Can't see a lockdown happening anyway because Boris won't want to pay for another one.

Brown smelly sandle wing of SF taking over. Nobody can seem to explain to me why after 2 years we have no extra ICU beds but we can print money hand over fist for furlough

Have we not been through this already, there is no one to staff them.
I'd say if half the money that was threw at furlough etc was thrown at finding staff it'd be sorted..

Eh? Medical professionals trained up in what, a few months? Or brought in from where in the middle of a pandemic? Maybe 'they' could through in an extra medical expertise chip in the booster jab

Correct but we have without doubt wasted 2 years strategically on our recruitment and capital investment plans
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 02:58:13 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 21, 2021, 01:59:24 PM
No money for it. Boris nearly has their hands tied.

Balls
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 03:03:10 PM
Lets imagine this is a factory.

There are always problems, defects , failures. How to you improve throughput and reduce waste, you improve detection, reduce severity and reduce occurence. We have done that with vacinnes and track trace etc.

Then you have to look at bottlenecks-ICU.

Improve capacity-more beds, more staff.

Then we have no crisis until the next one. Then we start again
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on September 21, 2021, 03:19:48 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 03:03:10 PM
Lets imagine this is a factory.

There are always problems, defects , failures. How to you improve throughput and reduce waste, you improve detection, reduce severity and reduce occurence. We have done that with vacinnes and track trace etc.

Then you have to look at bottlenecks-ICU.

Improve capacity-more beds, more staff.

Then we have no crisis until the next one. Then we start again

The much vaunted bengoa report highlighted a lot of waste in the current system so throwing good money after bad evidently the only option on the table unless there's a huge capital investment in a new super hospital and close down a few of the regional hospitals..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on September 21, 2021, 03:21:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 03:03:10 PM
Lets imagine this is a factory.

There are always problems, defects , failures. How to you improve throughput and reduce waste, you improve detection, reduce severity and reduce occurence. We have done that with vacinnes and track trace etc.

Then you have to look at bottlenecks-ICU.

Improve capacity-more beds, more staff.

Then we have no crisis until the next one. Then we start again

Straight from the PFMEA manual, refresher course recently?  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on September 21, 2021, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 03:03:10 PM
Lets imagine this is a factory.

There are always problems, defects , failures. How to you improve throughput and reduce waste, you improve detection, reduce severity and reduce occurence. We have done that with vacinnes and track trace etc.

Then you have to look at bottlenecks-ICU.

Improve capacity-more beds, more staff.

Then we have no crisis until the next one. Then we start again

But it is not a factory
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 03:45:22 PM
Quote from: Rudi on September 21, 2021, 03:21:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 03:03:10 PM
Lets imagine this is a factory.

There are always problems, defects , failures. How to you improve throughput and reduce waste, you improve detection, reduce severity and reduce occurence. We have done that with vacinnes and track trace etc.

Then you have to look at bottlenecks-ICU.

Improve capacity-more beds, more staff.

Then we have no crisis until the next one. Then we start again

Straight from the PFMEA manual, refresher course recently?  ;D

Daily unfortunately
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 03:46:57 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on September 21, 2021, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 03:03:10 PM
Lets imagine this is a factory.

There are always problems, defects , failures. How to you improve throughput and reduce waste, you improve detection, reduce severity and reduce occurence. We have done that with vacinnes and track trace etc.

Then you have to look at bottlenecks-ICU.

Improve capacity-more beds, more staff.

Then we have no crisis until the next one. Then we start again

But it is not a factory

Yeah we know that. There is a reason massive number lean case studies either focus on hospitals or manufacturing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on September 21, 2021, 03:47:06 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 21, 2021, 02:45:34 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 21, 2021, 02:31:12 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on September 21, 2021, 02:26:04 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 02:17:08 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 21, 2021, 01:55:43 PM
Michelle O'Neill reckons it would be dishonest to rule out another lockdown apparently?

I can honestly say that Sinn Fein will never ever get another vote from me if that happens and I am probably one of their biggest supporters on here. Can't see a lockdown happening anyway because Boris won't want to pay for another one.

Brown smelly sandle wing of SF taking over. Nobody can seem to explain to me why after 2 years we have no extra ICU beds but we can print money hand over fist for furlough

Have we not been through this already, there is no one to staff them.
I'd say if half the money that was threw at furlough etc was thrown at finding staff it'd be sorted..

Eh? Medical professionals trained up in what, a few months? Or brought in from where in the middle of a pandemic? Maybe 'they' could through in an extra medical expertise chip in the booster jab
Maybe we'd paid nurses a decent wage and gave them decent conditions we'd have kept the ones we did have?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 03:58:01 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 21, 2021, 03:19:48 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 03:03:10 PM
Lets imagine this is a factory.

There are always problems, defects , failures. How to you improve throughput and reduce waste, you improve detection, reduce severity and reduce occurence. We have done that with vacinnes and track trace etc.

Then you have to look at bottlenecks-ICU.

Improve capacity-more beds, more staff.

Then we have no crisis until the next one. Then we start again

The much vaunted bengoa report highlighted a lot of waste in the current system so throwing good money after bad evidently the only option on the table unless there's a huge capital investment in a new super hospital and close down a few of the regional hospitals..

That has been mooted. To do that we need to develop roads west of the Bann
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on September 21, 2021, 05:30:22 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 03:46:57 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on September 21, 2021, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 03:03:10 PM
Lets imagine this is a factory.

There are always problems, defects , failures. How to you improve throughput and reduce waste, you improve detection, reduce severity and reduce occurence. We have done that with vacinnes and track trace etc.

Then you have to look at bottlenecks-ICU.

Improve capacity-more beds, more staff.

Then we have no crisis until the next one. Then we start again

But it is not a factory

Yeah we know that. There is a reason massive number lean case studies either focus on hospitals or manufacturing

::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 21, 2021, 07:06:58 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on September 21, 2021, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 03:03:10 PM
Lets imagine this is a factory.

There are always problems, defects , failures. How to you improve throughput and reduce waste, you improve detection, reduce severity and reduce occurence. We have done that with vacinnes and track trace etc.

Then you have to look at bottlenecks-ICU.

Improve capacity-more beds, more staff.

Then we have no crisis until the next one. Then we start again

But it is not a factory

They cannot even get enough lorry drivers to make deliveries, so they can hardly conuure up appropriate ICU staff just like that. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 08:11:09 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 21, 2021, 07:06:58 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on September 21, 2021, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 03:03:10 PM
Lets imagine this is a factory.

There are always problems, defects , failures. How to you improve throughput and reduce waste, you improve detection, reduce severity and reduce occurence. We have done that with vacinnes and track trace etc.

Then you have to look at bottlenecks-ICU.

Improve capacity-more beds, more staff.

Then we have no crisis until the next one. Then we start again

But it is not a factory

They cannot even get enough lorry drivers to make deliveries, so they can hardly conuure up appropriate ICU staff just like that.

Yeah I'd love to see their recovery plan, they have only has 2 years to be fair
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on September 21, 2021, 08:36:19 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 21, 2021, 07:06:58 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on September 21, 2021, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 03:03:10 PM
Lets imagine this is a factory.

There are always problems, defects , failures. How to you improve throughput and reduce waste, you improve detection, reduce severity and reduce occurence. We have done that with vacinnes and track trace etc.

Then you have to look at bottlenecks-ICU.

Improve capacity-more beds, more staff.

Then we have no crisis until the next one. Then we start again

But it is not a factory

They cannot even get enough lorry drivers to make deliveries, so they can hardly conuure up appropriate ICU staff just like that.
Again, shite money and generally treating them like shite for years is the main reason behind this, same as nurses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 23, 2021, 09:46:21 PM
Shop worker in petrol station in Germany murdered by anti masker
https://news.sky.com/story/germany-petrol-station-worker-shot-dead-following-mask-row-as-man-arrested-on-suspicion-of-murder-12413527

this is what things have come to
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 24, 2021, 12:36:15 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 23, 2021, 09:46:21 PM
Shop worker in petrol station in Germany murdered by anti masker
https://news.sky.com/story/germany-petrol-station-worker-shot-dead-following-mask-row-as-man-arrested-on-suspicion-of-murder-12413527

this is what things have come to
Anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers are the new Incels.

The ideology of hatred, the enmity towards truth and reason and the sheer contempt for the lives of others which permeates these "movements" are reminiscent of Anders Behring Breivik and the Christchurch mass murderer.

It is terrifying.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on September 24, 2021, 08:06:58 AM
Quote from: Rudi on September 21, 2021, 03:21:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 03:03:10 PM
Lets imagine this is a factory.

There are always problems, defects , failures. How to you improve throughput and reduce waste, you improve detection, reduce severity and reduce occurence. We have done that with vacinnes and track trace etc.

Then you have to look at bottlenecks-ICU.

Improve capacity-more beds, more staff.

Then we have no crisis until the next one. Then we start again

Straight from the PFMEA manual, refresher course recently?  ;D

I wonder have the HSE opened an A3 on it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sensethetone on September 24, 2021, 08:23:15 AM
Quote from: Itchy on September 24, 2021, 08:06:58 AM
Quote from: Rudi on September 21, 2021, 03:21:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 03:03:10 PM
Lets imagine this is a factory.

There are always problems, defects , failures. How to you improve throughput and reduce waste, you improve detection, reduce severity and reduce occurence. We have done that with vacinnes and track trace etc.

Then you have to look at bottlenecks-ICU.

Improve capacity-more beds, more staff.

Then we have no crisis until the next one. Then we start again

Straight from the PFMEA manual, refresher course recently?  ;D

I wonder have the HSE opened an A3 on it?

;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 24, 2021, 01:12:17 PM
Quote from: Itchy on September 24, 2021, 08:06:58 AM
Quote from: Rudi on September 21, 2021, 03:21:19 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 21, 2021, 03:03:10 PM
Lets imagine this is a factory.

There are always problems, defects , failures. How to you improve throughput and reduce waste, you improve detection, reduce severity and reduce occurence. We have done that with vacinnes and track trace etc.

Then you have to look at bottlenecks-ICU.

Improve capacity-more beds, more staff.

Then we have no crisis until the next one. Then we start again

Straight from the PFMEA manual, refresher course recently?  ;D

I wonder have the HSE opened an A3 on it?

Probably

https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/healthbusinessservices/hbs-business-relationship-management/hbs-operational-excellence-programme.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on September 25, 2021, 11:32:11 AM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-who-was-released-from-a-co-donegal-hospital-by-anti-vaccination-campaigners-against-medical-advice-has-died-in-hospital-40886238.html (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-who-was-released-from-a-co-donegal-hospital-by-anti-vaccination-campaigners-against-medical-advice-has-died-in-hospital-40886238.html)

Jesus. Those people actually need locked up. (And yes no one should be listening to them)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on September 25, 2021, 01:20:42 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 25, 2021, 11:32:11 AM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-who-was-released-from-a-co-donegal-hospital-by-anti-vaccination-campaigners-against-medical-advice-has-died-in-hospital-40886238.html (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-who-was-released-from-a-co-donegal-hospital-by-anti-vaccination-campaigners-against-medical-advice-has-died-in-hospital-40886238.html)

Jesus. Those people actually need locked up. (And yes no one should be listening to them)

I had just heard about that, my god, utter madness.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 25, 2021, 05:47:34 PM
Anybody notice a trend?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_bYdQWWQAcQF3h?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on September 25, 2021, 06:52:23 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 25, 2021, 01:20:42 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 25, 2021, 11:32:11 AM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-who-was-released-from-a-co-donegal-hospital-by-anti-vaccination-campaigners-against-medical-advice-has-died-in-hospital-40886238.html (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-who-was-released-from-a-co-donegal-hospital-by-anti-vaccination-campaigners-against-medical-advice-has-died-in-hospital-40886238.html)

Jesus. Those people actually need locked up. (And yes no one should be listening to them)

Do you these whack jobs will do a mea culpa and see the error of their ways?

Not a chance.

Fuckwits.
I had just heard about that, my god, utter madness.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 26, 2021, 09:05:25 PM
ROI weekly update. A small rise in case numbers and hospitals figures.

9321 cases (76 more cases than last week)
296 in hospital (18 more than a week ago)
65 ICU ( 2 more than last Sunday)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on September 27, 2021, 12:14:46 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 25, 2021, 01:20:42 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 25, 2021, 11:32:11 AM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-who-was-released-from-a-co-donegal-hospital-by-anti-vaccination-campaigners-against-medical-advice-has-died-in-hospital-40886238.html (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-who-was-released-from-a-co-donegal-hospital-by-anti-vaccination-campaigners-against-medical-advice-has-died-in-hospital-40886238.html)

Jesus. Those people actually need locked up. (And yes no one should be listening to them)

I had just heard about that, my god, utter madness.
Those fckwits should be charged with manslaughter!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 27, 2021, 12:19:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 27, 2021, 12:14:46 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 25, 2021, 01:20:42 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 25, 2021, 11:32:11 AM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-who-was-released-from-a-co-donegal-hospital-by-anti-vaccination-campaigners-against-medical-advice-has-died-in-hospital-40886238.html (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-who-was-released-from-a-co-donegal-hospital-by-anti-vaccination-campaigners-against-medical-advice-has-died-in-hospital-40886238.html)

Jesus. Those people actually need locked up. (And yes no one should be listening to them)

I had just heard about that, my god, utter madness.
Those fckwits should be charged with manslaughter!!

I wonder did they go to his funeral?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on September 27, 2021, 12:41:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 27, 2021, 12:19:31 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 27, 2021, 12:14:46 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on September 25, 2021, 01:20:42 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 25, 2021, 11:32:11 AM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-who-was-released-from-a-co-donegal-hospital-by-anti-vaccination-campaigners-against-medical-advice-has-died-in-hospital-40886238.html (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/man-who-was-released-from-a-co-donegal-hospital-by-anti-vaccination-campaigners-against-medical-advice-has-died-in-hospital-40886238.html)

Jesus. Those people actually need locked up. (And yes no one should be listening to them)

I had just heard about that, my god, utter madness.
Those fckwits should be charged with manslaughter!!

I wonder did they go to his funeral?

By all accounts he was closely aligned to the said lunatic fringe. Some Italien gobda might get a prison sentence yet. Then again this is Ireland, not a feckin hope. He should be shot showed up a dogs arse & the dog shot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on September 27, 2021, 12:47:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2021, 05:47:34 PM
Anybody notice a trend?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_bYdQWWQAcQF3h?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Yes. People in rural counties are at a disadvantage in the vaccination program and more needs to be done to reach them, as opposed to just worrying about the big cities.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 27, 2021, 02:10:54 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 27, 2021, 12:47:27 PM
Yes. People in rural counties are at a disadvantage in the vaccination program and more needs to be done to reach them, as opposed to just worrying about the big cities.

No doubt, but in some cases you can bring a horse to water but the horse hasn't the sense to drink it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on September 27, 2021, 02:58:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 27, 2021, 02:10:54 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 27, 2021, 12:47:27 PM
Yes. People in rural counties are at a disadvantage in the vaccination program and more needs to be done to reach them, as opposed to just worrying about the big cities.

No doubt, but in some cases you can bring a horse to water but the horse hasn't the sense to drink it.

How so?

Most GP clinics were doing Covid jabs as well as the pop up vaccination centres!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on September 27, 2021, 03:15:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 27, 2021, 12:47:27 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on September 25, 2021, 05:47:34 PM
Anybody notice a trend?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_bYdQWWQAcQF3h?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Yes. People in rural counties are at a disadvantage in the vaccination program and more needs to be done to reach them, as opposed to just worrying about the big cities.

My in-laws and my wife's wider family ALL come from an extremely rural area in the western US.

My in-laws are vaccinated, and have been for months, as are some of the other relatives. You know which ones aren't? The hardline Trump/"freedom" ones, that's who.

The NY Times put out an article today showing some county-level stats from a blue state (MD) and a red state (WY). Take a wild guess as to how the presidential election correlates with vaccinations and Covid death rates.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/briefing/covid-red-states-vaccinations.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/27/briefing/covid-red-states-vaccinations.html)

I'm sure more in-depth analysis remains to be done, but the best part of the article was this particular piece of Breitbart "wisdom":

In an article this month for Breitbart, the right-wing website formerly run by Steve Bannon, John Nolte argued that the partisan gap in vaccination rates was part of a liberal plot. Liberals like Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Anthony Fauci and Howard Stern have tried so hard to persuade people to get vaccinated, because they know that Republican voters will do the opposite of whatever they say, Nolte wrote.

His argument is certainly bizarre, given that Democratic politicians have been imploring all Americans to get vaccinated and many Republican politicians have not. But Nolte did offer a glimpse at a creeping political fear among some Republicans. "Right now, a countless number of Trump supporters believe they are owning the left by refusing to take a lifesaving vaccine," Nolte wrote. "In a country where elections are decided on razor-thin margins, does it not benefit one side if their opponents simply drop dead?"

To be fair to the Breitbart dude, his overall point is that even IF you don't want to take the vaccine because the leftists are being mean and condescending and they really are trying to use reverse psychology for malignant means, you might want to reconsider for your own sake. However, that this type of insane, reactionary, paranoid state of mind even exists among a significant section of the US population is just mind-boggling and epitomizes where the right in the US is.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on September 27, 2021, 03:29:37 PM
Close the thread, boring as feck at this stage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on September 27, 2021, 03:31:21 PM
Perhaps Biden could sort out the budget deficit by asking everyone to claim their tax allowances. According to the above theory this would lead to Trump supporters doing the opposite! Mind you, I expect Trump himself wouldn't follow this approach.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on September 27, 2021, 03:32:34 PM
Isn't it funny how rural White people vaccination rates are low because they are dumb, but inner city African-Americans have a low vaccine rate because the system is discriminating against them.

Being condescending to rural Trump voters isn't going to help.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on September 27, 2021, 03:38:19 PM
J70 needs to be vaccinated for tds
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on September 27, 2021, 03:52:21 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 27, 2021, 03:32:34 PM
Isn't it funny how rural White people vaccination rates are low because they are dumb, but inner city African-Americans have a low vaccine rate because the system is discriminating against them.

Being condescending to rural Trump voters isn't going to help.

Ok, tell us how to get through to rural white people who think Covid is either a hoax or exaggerated or the measures and safeguards are an affront to their "freedom" and who place far more trust and faith in the pundits and politicians who tell them so rather than medical and public health scientists and professionals? Or rural white people who, according to that Breitbart guy, won't get vaccinated out of spite because Joe Biden wants them to and Howard f**king Stern was mocking some idiotic talk radio hosts and politicians who died after loudly campaigning on their shows for months about how it was all bullshit?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on September 27, 2021, 04:22:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 27, 2021, 03:52:21 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 27, 2021, 03:32:34 PM
Isn't it funny how rural White people vaccination rates are low because they are dumb, but inner city African-Americans have a low vaccine rate because the system is discriminating against them.

Being condescending to rural Trump voters isn't going to help.

Ok, tell us how to get through to rural white people who think Covid is either a hoax or exaggerated or the measures and safeguards are an affront to their "freedom" and who place far more trust and faith in the pundits and politicians who tell them so rather than medical and public health scientists and professionals? Or rural white people who, according to that Breitbart guy, won't get vaccinated out of spite because Joe Biden wants them to and Howard f**king Stern was mocking some idiotic talk radio hosts and politicians who died after loudly campaigning on their shows for months about how it was all bullshit?

Well getting TikTok "celebrities" into the White House to promote it is not going to do it. Personally I think social media is to blame. Platforms do not do enough to shut down dangerous misinformation.

Linking vaccine scepticism with Trump (who infact is extremely pro-vaccine) and calling Trumpers dumb because of it, only serves to exaggerate the problem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on September 27, 2021, 04:38:22 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 27, 2021, 04:22:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on September 27, 2021, 03:52:21 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 27, 2021, 03:32:34 PM
Isn't it funny how rural White people vaccination rates are low because they are dumb, but inner city African-Americans have a low vaccine rate because the system is discriminating against them.

Being condescending to rural Trump voters isn't going to help.

Ok, tell us how to get through to rural white people who think Covid is either a hoax or exaggerated or the measures and safeguards are an affront to their "freedom" and who place far more trust and faith in the pundits and politicians who tell them so rather than medical and public health scientists and professionals? Or rural white people who, according to that Breitbart guy, won't get vaccinated out of spite because Joe Biden wants them to and Howard f**king Stern was mocking some idiotic talk radio hosts and politicians who died after loudly campaigning on their shows for months about how it was all bullshit?

Well getting TikTok "celebrities" into the White House to promote it is not going to do it. Personally I think social media is to blame. Platforms do not do enough to shut down dangerous misinformation.

Linking vaccine scepticism with Trump (who infact is extremely pro-vaccine) and calling Trumpers dumb because of it, only serves to exaggerate the problem.

I fully agree on the social media misinformation. Across the board. Not just vaccines.

As for Trump, he is not "extremely pro-vaccine". You'd think he should be, given the moves his administration, to their rare credit, made to help facilitate the development. He, a man who never hesitates to very loudly and forcefully incite and insult and lie, has been very half-hearted in his appeals to the public to take it, and this goes along with his whole treatment of the pandemic while in office as an election-year inconvenience to be wished away, rather than faced head-on and, if he'd had a lick of sense, harnessed to his benefit to get re-elected. But Trump can't see past the end of his own nose with his unending need for validation and hero worship from his supporters. And as his base is anti-vaccine and anti-mask and see it all as hype for whatever end, he can't be seen to push hard against them.

As for calling Trump supporters dumb, well much of their conduct and rhetoric warrants it. Put it this way, if I was to look over on some of the threads about the north, are all of your postings there (assuming you comment on them) about loyalists and unionists nice and non-insulting?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on September 28, 2021, 12:37:23 PM
Controversial point of opinion here by some "free thinkers". But if you disagree with it, that's proof of your confirmation bias. If these authors are not immediately platformed by the corrupt MSM, it will just prove how cancel culture has corrupted the media. Where's the balance?!

Defibrillators are a FIB!
By Toby Dai Young, Ivor McDinn and Auntie Vaxx
The Dictator Magazine, September 28th, 2021

The narrative that defibrillators are life saving devices has gained wide traction for many years now. Here is why that narrative is a lie.

Defibrillators were created by Big Medical Device and are a money making racket! Big Medical Device is coining it in from them. This is a multi-billion dollar industry. Defibrillators cost big money and the vast majority of them never get used. The dogs on the street know that those who say they are needed have skin in the game, they're corrupt and paid off.

What's the use rate for defibrillators? 0.003%? They're pointless. The risk/balance calculation is categorically in favour of not having them. Exercise is good for you, not bad for you! Those who call for defibrillators to be compulsory at sports clubs and schools and anywhere where people go to exercise are therefore saying that exercise is bad for you! Liars!

Defibrillators are an infringement on personal freedom. Nobody asked Christian Eriksen whether he wanted to have electricity shot through him. That's coercion, it's tyranny.

There's no evidence that defibrillators work. There's no evidence that a defibrillator saved Christian Eriksen. Did he recover because of a defibrillator, or WITH a defibrillator? Was it all just a big coincidence? Was he even ill at all? He was probably just tired!

People who defibrillators are used on still die. Therefore defibrillators don't work.

How many people die playing sport? Very few. Almost nobody. People need to accept a small amount of risk. Death is part of life. We should not fear death.

There is no data on the long term safety of defibrillators. How do we do know that all that electricity won't lead to much worse health problems in the future? Nobody can say they won't.

Defibrillators pump radiation and 5G technology through people. We know that radiation and 5G technology is part of the new world order plan for The Great Reset and one world government.

Defibrillators are heart nappies. Whatever happened to all the real men? Can't the woke snowflakes play football without presuming they might die? We're sick of the woke fascists and health mafia telling everybody they need defibrillators. It's virtue signalling nonsense.

We're not anti-defibrillator, we're defibrillator-hesitant.

Those who refuse to respect our opinion are fascists! And we're sick of being talked DOWN TO by the defibrillator police!

We're just asking questions! Do your own resertch!

This article was originally published in the science pre-print and bullshit opinion journal Biomedcrankrxiv and Wanksock Monthly Magazine
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on September 30, 2021, 11:41:08 PM
my god the north are now fighting over vaccine passports for hospitality/events etc,

the health minister has received a death threat,

wtf  ::) a complete sh*tshow once again
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 01, 2021, 10:16:15 PM
New drug on the horizon, this would do a lot of good as it works early, and keeps you out of hospital. 

If the US Food and Drug Administration authorises the drug, called molnupiravir, it would be the first treatment of its kind — a twice-daily pill prescribed for five days to patients who have recently been diagnosed with Covid-19.

The US pharmaceuticals company Merck said on Friday that it had stopped the phase 3 clinical trial early after an interim analysis showed that 7.3 per cent of patients on the drug had died or been hospitalised, versus 14.1 per cent of those receiving a placebo.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 03, 2021, 07:49:33 PM
ROI weekly update. Good drop on cases this week, small rise on those in hospital.

8968 cases (353 fewer than last week)
319 in hospital (23 more than a week ago)
60 in ICU ( 5 fewer than last Sunday)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Applesisapples on October 04, 2021, 03:21:10 PM
Has anyone been able to get the EU passport for NI residents with an Irish Passport?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on October 04, 2021, 03:27:46 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 04, 2021, 03:21:10 PM
Has anyone been able to get the EU passport for NI residents with an Irish Passport?

I'm hoping mine will be through this evening I finally got the application accepted this morning. I've details posted in the Holidays Thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 04, 2021, 04:58:37 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on September 30, 2021, 11:41:08 PM
my god the north are now fighting over vaccine passports for hospitality/events etc,

the health minister has received a death threat,

wtf  ::) a complete sh*tshow once again

Sure he did
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 04, 2021, 05:16:40 PM
 ;D

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: red hander on October 04, 2021, 05:20:10 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 04, 2021, 03:21:10 PM
Has anyone been able to get the EU passport for NI residents with an Irish Passport?

Aye, got mine yesterday, took about six hours between filling form in online and getting QR code in email.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mourne Red on October 09, 2021, 09:57:28 AM
Due for a weekend away next week in Dublin.. was just wondering what the restrictions are down south? Do you need to book everywhere (restaurants, pubs etc) and do you need your vaccine card for places to get in?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 09, 2021, 10:57:48 AM
Quote from: Mourne Red on October 09, 2021, 09:57:28 AM
Due for a weekend away next week in Dublin.. was just wondering what the restrictions are down south? Do you need to book everywhere (restaurants, pubs etc) and do you need your vaccine card for places to get in?

Vaccine passport required for indoors.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 09, 2021, 11:05:12 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 03, 2021, 07:49:33 PM
ROI weekly update. Good drop on cases this week, small rise on those in hospital.

8968 cases (353 fewer than last week)
319 in hospital (23 more than a week ago)
60 in ICU ( 5 fewer than last Sunday)
6 days later we're back up to over 2000 cases in a day (2,002 yesterday).

354 in hospital and 73 in ICU.

There may be trouble ahead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 09, 2021, 11:58:24 AM
I'd say the opening of universities must have had some effect on the numbers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 09, 2021, 01:25:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 09, 2021, 11:58:24 AM
I'd say the opening of universities must have had some effect on the numbers.
Lots of spread in schools as well.

People going back to workplaces.

October 22nd is not far away at all.

Seasonal factors possibly beginning to make themselves felt.

Whichever way you dice it, the inescapable conclusion is that the Republic is going to have problems in the weeks ahead.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 10, 2021, 07:16:05 PM
ROI weekly update. A rise on cases and hospitals numbers this week.

9533 (565 more than last week)
382 in hospital (63 more than a week ago)
74 in ICU (14 more than a week ago)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 10, 2021, 07:44:53 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 10, 2021, 07:16:05 PM
ROI weekly update. A rise on cases and hospitals numbers this week.

9533 (565 more than last week)
382 in hospital (63 more than a week ago)
74 in ICU (14 more than a week ago)
The 7 day average for test positivity ratio has gone from 5.3% on September 23rd to 6.8% on October 8th.

I think if you look at the trends not just over the last couple of weeks, but since July, things are worrying.

On July 3rd, only 42 people were in hospital with Covid.

Despite many people (including myself) expecting a massive explosion in cases when Delta arrived, it never really materialised. Cases rose but pretty much hit a ceiling of 2k per day.

And yet, hospital and ICU numbers have increased a lot since July. Hospitalisations went from 42 on July 3rd to 384 on September 6th. That dipped for a week or two but then started to rise again and we are now more or less back to that September 6th figure.

13 ICU patients on June 26th has now increased to 74.

Simply put, the flow of patients into hospitals is greater than the flow out of them.

Again, I stress that all this is without a massive explosion in cases - in fact cases have been more or less on a slight downward slope over the last two months - which is the really worrying part.

With full opening less than two weeks away and winter beginning to close in, if we do see an explosion in cases, say to 4k, which I think is very possible - the hospitals are going to feel serious strain.

And we have five months of winter ahead of us.

At this stage I do expect a similar surge in cases to what we had last year, especially in the run up to Christmas. That will hopefully not mean an explosion in deaths, but it will surely mean a rise. And some restrictions, probably post-Christmas, are likely, I think.

The vaccines can't be approved and rolled out to all age groups fast enough. Same with boosters.





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 10, 2021, 08:49:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 10, 2021, 07:44:53 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 10, 2021, 07:16:05 PM
ROI weekly update. A rise on cases and hospitals numbers this week.

9533 (565 more than last week)
382 in hospital (63 more than a week ago)
74 in ICU (14 more than a week ago)
The 7 day average for test positivity ratio has gone from 5.3% on September 23rd to 6.8% on October 8th.

I think if you look at the trends not just over the last couple of weeks, but since July, things are worrying.

On July 3rd, only 42 people were in hospital with Covid.

Despite many people (including myself) expecting a massive explosion in cases when Delta arrived, it never really materialised. Cases rose but pretty much hit a ceiling of 2k per day.

And yet, hospital and ICU numbers have increased a lot since July. Hospitalisations went from 42 on July 3rd to 384 on September 6th. That dipped for a week or two but then started to rise again and we are now more or less back to that September 6th figure.

13 ICU patients on June 26th has now increased to 74.

Simply put, the flow of patients into hospitals is greater than the flow out of them.

Again, I stress that all this is without a massive explosion in cases - in fact cases have been more or less on a slight downward slope over the last two months - which is the really worrying part.

With full opening less than two weeks away and winter beginning to close in, if we do see an explosion in cases, say to 4k, which I think is very possible - the hospitals are going to feel serious strain.

And we have five months of winter ahead of us.

At this stage I do expect a similar surge in cases to what we had last year, especially in the run up to Christmas. That will hopefully not mean an explosion in deaths, but it will surely mean a rise. And some restrictions, probably post-Christmas, are likely, I think.

The vaccines can't be approved and rolled out to all age groups fast enough. Same with boosters.
Plus vaccine efficiency will.reduce over time.
And there will be new variants.

The key metric relates to the resilience of the Health service.
This isn't over yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 10, 2021, 10:11:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 10, 2021, 08:49:54 PM

Plus vaccine efficiency will.reduce over time.
And there will be new variants.

The key metric relates to the resilience of the Health service.
This isn't over yet.
Delta is a very "fit" variant and seems to be demolishing all comers in terms of variants, but we definitely cannot rule out it developing more "fitness" this winter. If it does, we're in serious bother.

Whether boosters are rolled out quick enough could be the deciding factor in whether we have more restrictions this winter.

I have big doubts about a lot of businesses remaining viable in a no restrictions scenario in which there is still wide spread of the virus.

There is a cohort, mostly younger, who probably won't feel much fear, but a lot of people will remain very cautious and will lack confidence, and that's a recipe for economic trouble.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 10, 2021, 10:16:47 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/covid-is-not-over-this-is-what-we-have-to-do-next-1.4694946?mode=amp

In order to maintain control, we need to know more about breakthrough infections. Why do some people become infected even if they are vaccinated? Is it because of the virus or their immune systems?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 13, 2021, 11:22:34 AM
Good article in the Irish Times in relation to Covid & border areas. Northern Irish Catholics come in for a hard time. Apparently its cultural for NI catholics to go against the grain. True in my experience, feral hoors  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mario on October 13, 2021, 11:42:24 AM
Quote from: Rudi on October 13, 2021, 11:22:34 AM
Good article in the Irish Times in relation to Covid & border areas. Northern Irish Catholics come in for a hard time. Apparently its cultural for NI catholics to go against the grain. True in my experience, feral hoors  ;D
So Poots was right all along when he said only nationalists are getting covid  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 14, 2021, 08:54:41 AM
The mood music now is that October 22nd won't happen.

And looking at the trends, I don't see it how it can happen, it would be grossly irresponsible if it does.

Mass delusion is beginning to set in again among the "it'll be fine" merchants.

It's obvious there's a serious fire burning beneath the floorboards.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 14, 2021, 09:41:19 AM
300,000 people here in the 26 didn't get vaccinated.
Most of the cases are from them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 14, 2021, 10:05:02 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 14, 2021, 09:41:19 AM
300,000 people here in the 26 didn't get vaccinated.
Most of the cases are from them.
Vaccinations provoke an immune response in people. There are a lot of people whose immune systems are weaker, most notably the old and those with underlying conditions.

The 300k unvaccinated are a problem for all of us.

Not just because they fill up hospitals, but because they can and do spread it to vaccinated people, some of whom will die as a result.

Because great as they are, the vaccines are not foolproof.

The longer this goes on, the more it looks as if these vaccinations are minimum triple dose.

And everybody has to get them.

Otherwise, the notion of Covid endemicity may prove to be one of humanity's most tragic mistakes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2021, 10:24:19 AM
Quote from: Rudi on October 13, 2021, 11:22:34 AM
Good article in the Irish Times in relation to Covid & border areas. Northern Irish Catholics come in for a hard time. Apparently its cultural for NI catholics to go against the grain. True in my experience, feral hoors  ;D

Lol.
Honestly but there might be something in it, we dont like following rules
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 14, 2021, 11:18:01 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 14, 2021, 10:05:02 AM
The 300k unvaccinated are a problem for all of us.

Not just because they fill up hospitals, but because they can and do spread it to vaccinated people, some of whom will die as a result.


You can pretty much guarantee that if someone gets COvid that an unvaccinated person was in the chain of infection that brought Covid to them. 

Quote from: sid waddellThe longer this goes on, the more it looks as if these vaccinations are minimum triple dose.

There is nothing particularly sacrosanct about 2 doses, if it takes 3 or 4 then give them to people. A fairly small difference in the proportion getting Covid could make the difference between R > 1 and R < 1. In Israel, people were 11 times more likely to be infected with Covid before their booster dose.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 14, 2021, 11:18:32 AM
apparently Waterford has highest covid numbers and vaccination numbers just what i have seen dont know if its true
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 14, 2021, 11:19:43 AM
has anyone got this super cold that is suppose to be doing the rounds.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on October 14, 2021, 11:35:28 AM
We were never going to get 100% vaccinated,  to get 90% adults vaccinated in mid October has probably already exceeded expectations for the government and NPHET

Context is needed on current case loads. What is current ages is there target testing going on in schools and college. On hospital numbers how many picked up the virus there when in for something else.

Journalists have gone to town with Martins no guarantee that October 22nd easing of restrictions will go ahead as planned comment even though his other colleagues when asked said it should go ahead.

As ever the government will decide on the advice of medical and  other experts and will study the data in front of them at next weeks meeting. What should be taken into account is we are a long way off to what the NPHET protections said we'd be right now and this isn't the same as last year when we entered winter with nobody vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gerrykeegan on October 14, 2021, 11:37:14 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 14, 2021, 11:19:43 AM
has anyone got this super cold that is suppose to be doing the rounds.

Yes we got it here the house, the young fellow and wife got it. Coughing, spluttering, sore throat, blocked nose/runny nose.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2021, 11:37:46 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 14, 2021, 11:19:43 AM
has anyone got this super cold that is suppose to be doing the rounds.

Almost everyone I know, club nearly didnt field a few weeks back with it, particularly bad amongst uni ones
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 14, 2021, 12:07:56 PM
The way I look at it is we're ALL going to be exposed to the bleddy thing sometime. Some will obviously have worse symptoms than others. It will ebb and flow so long as it's out there. I have a rotten tummy bug today. No appetite either. It's not Covid because I did one of those tests that were sent to every house in the north and it made me feel at ease.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 14, 2021, 12:29:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2021, 10:24:19 AM
Quote from: Rudi on October 13, 2021, 11:22:34 AM
Good article in the Irish Times in relation to Covid & border areas. Northern Irish Catholics come in for a hard time. Apparently its cultural for NI catholics to go against the grain. True in my experience, feral hoors  ;D

Lol.
Honestly but there might be something in it, we dont like following rules

I was in Derry about 20 years ago for Halloween night. Very good night, some of the costumes were pleasing on the eye, even back then. Think it was Peadars I was in, really enjoyed the night & had a serious suppin of porter & Jameson. i was with a fairly respectable bunch of northern lads I used to play ball with / against. The night ended, time to go back to one of the lads house. Out into a square, RUC van getting pelted with bottles, all the buckeens I was with picking up bottles & throwing them at the van. I bent down (not to be the odd one out) was about to pick up a bottle, then I caught myself on ... Hilarious all the same, some dacent God fearing south Derry boys acting the maggot. I wonder are any of them buckeens on here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2021, 01:29:19 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 14, 2021, 12:29:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2021, 10:24:19 AM
Quote from: Rudi on October 13, 2021, 11:22:34 AM
Good article in the Irish Times in relation to Covid & border areas. Northern Irish Catholics come in for a hard time. Apparently its cultural for NI catholics to go against the grain. True in my experience, feral hoors  ;D

Lol.
Honestly but there might be something in it, we dont like following rules

I was in Derry about 20 years ago for Halloween night. Very good night, some of the costumes were pleasing on the eye, even back then. Think it was Peadars I was in, really enjoyed the night & had a serious suppin of porter & Jameson. i was with a fairly respectable bunch of northern lads I used to play ball with / against. The night ended, time to go back to one of the lads house. Out into a square, RUC van getting pelted with bottles, all the buckeens I was with picking up bottles & throwing them at the van. I bent down (not to be the odd one out) was about to pick up a bottle, then I caught myself on ... Hilarious all the same, some dacent God fearing south Derry boys acting the maggot. I wonder are any of them buckeens on here.

Them boys wouldn't be the best rioters. Us city boys premier division.

Hard to beat them at the football/hurling though.

One of the first big years we had in Derry with Halloween(think about 87) was finished with full on riot up the town. RUC blasted the Guildhall Square with plastic bullets, thankfully a distant memory now. Halloween in Derry cant be beat
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 14, 2021, 02:21:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2021, 01:29:19 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 14, 2021, 12:29:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2021, 10:24:19 AM
Quote from: Rudi on October 13, 2021, 11:22:34 AM
Good article in the Irish Times in relation to Covid & border areas. Northern Irish Catholics come in for a hard time. Apparently its cultural for NI catholics to go against the grain. True in my experience, feral hoors  ;D

Lol.
Honestly but there might be something in it, we dont like following rules

I was in Derry about 20 years ago for Halloween night. Very good night, some of the costumes were pleasing on the eye, even back then. Think it was Peadars I was in, really enjoyed the night & had a serious suppin of porter & Jameson. i was with a fairly respectable bunch of northern lads I used to play ball with / against. The night ended, time to go back to one of the lads house. Out into a square, RUC van getting pelted with bottles, all the buckeens I was with picking up bottles & throwing them at the van. I bent down (not to be the odd one out) was about to pick up a bottle, then I caught myself on ... Hilarious all the same, some dacent God fearing south Derry boys acting the maggot. I wonder are any of them buckeens on here.

Them boys wouldn't be the best rioters. Us city boys premier division.

Hard to beat them at the football/hurling though.

One of the first big years we had in Derry with Halloween(think about 87) was finished with full on riot up the town. RUC blasted the Guildhall Square with plastic bullets, thankfully a distant memory now. Halloween in Derry cant be beat

It's an experience, always liked Derry haven't been there in a while. I'm hoping the Derry Rossie league game is in Celtic Park. Saturday evening would be great.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 14, 2021, 02:36:46 PM
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/government-considers-extending-digital-covid-certificates-beyond-october-22-amid-surge-in-cases-40948294.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2021, 02:37:39 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 14, 2021, 02:21:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2021, 01:29:19 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 14, 2021, 12:29:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2021, 10:24:19 AM
Quote from: Rudi on October 13, 2021, 11:22:34 AM
Good article in the Irish Times in relation to Covid & border areas. Northern Irish Catholics come in for a hard time. Apparently its cultural for NI catholics to go against the grain. True in my experience, feral hoors  ;D

Lol.
Honestly but there might be something in it, we dont like following rules

I was in Derry about 20 years ago for Halloween night. Very good night, some of the costumes were pleasing on the eye, even back then. Think it was Peadars I was in, really enjoyed the night & had a serious suppin of porter & Jameson. i was with a fairly respectable bunch of northern lads I used to play ball with / against. The night ended, time to go back to one of the lads house. Out into a square, RUC van getting pelted with bottles, all the buckeens I was with picking up bottles & throwing them at the van. I bent down (not to be the odd one out) was about to pick up a bottle, then I caught myself on ... Hilarious all the same, some dacent God fearing south Derry boys acting the maggot. I wonder are any of them buckeens on here.

Them boys wouldn't be the best rioters. Us city boys premier division.

Hard to beat them at the football/hurling though.

One of the first big years we had in Derry with Halloween(think about 87) was finished with full on riot up the town. RUC blasted the Guildhall Square with plastic bullets, thankfully a distant memory now. Halloween in Derry cant be beat

It's an experience, always liked Derry haven't been there in a while. I'm hoping the Derry Rossie league game is in Celtic Park. Saturday evening would be great.

Taking nearly all the games to Owenbeg now unfortunately- I dont mind going there but not great for travelling fans
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 14, 2021, 04:21:48 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2021, 02:37:39 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 14, 2021, 02:21:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2021, 01:29:19 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 14, 2021, 12:29:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2021, 10:24:19 AM
Quote from: Rudi on October 13, 2021, 11:22:34 AM
Good article in the Irish Times in relation to Covid & border areas. Northern Irish Catholics come in for a hard time. Apparently its cultural for NI catholics to go against the grain. True in my experience, feral hoors  ;D

Lol.
Honestly but there might be something in it, we dont like following rules

I was in Derry about 20 years ago for Halloween night. Very good night, some of the costumes were pleasing on the eye, even back then. Think it was Peadars I was in, really enjoyed the night & had a serious suppin of porter & Jameson. i was with a fairly respectable bunch of northern lads I used to play ball with / against. The night ended, time to go back to one of the lads house. Out into a square, RUC van getting pelted with bottles, all the buckeens I was with picking up bottles & throwing them at the van. I bent down (not to be the odd one out) was about to pick up a bottle, then I caught myself on ... Hilarious all the same, some dacent God fearing south Derry boys acting the maggot. I wonder are any of them buckeens on here.

Them boys wouldn't be the best rioters. Us city boys premier division.

Hard to beat them at the football/hurling though.

One of the first big years we had in Derry with Halloween(think about 87) was finished with full on riot up the town. RUC blasted the Guildhall Square with plastic bullets, thankfully a distant memory now. Halloween in Derry cant be beat

It's an experience, always liked Derry haven't been there in a while. I'm hoping the Derry Rossie league game is in Celtic Park. Saturday evening would be great.

Taking nearly all the games to Owenbeg now unfortunately- I dont mind going there but not great for travelling fans

Only 1 game in the last 3 years of the National League has been played in Owenbeg. If we're drawn at home to the likes of Roscommon, Galway or Down, those games will most likely be in Celtic Pk. Up the NHS
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2021, 06:05:31 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 14, 2021, 04:21:48 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2021, 02:37:39 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 14, 2021, 02:21:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2021, 01:29:19 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 14, 2021, 12:29:41 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 14, 2021, 10:24:19 AM
Quote from: Rudi on October 13, 2021, 11:22:34 AM
Good article in the Irish Times in relation to Covid & border areas. Northern Irish Catholics come in for a hard time. Apparently its cultural for NI catholics to go against the grain. True in my experience, feral hoors  ;D

Lol.
Honestly but there might be something in it, we dont like following rules

I was in Derry about 20 years ago for Halloween night. Very good night, some of the costumes were pleasing on the eye, even back then. Think it was Peadars I was in, really enjoyed the night & had a serious suppin of porter & Jameson. i was with a fairly respectable bunch of northern lads I used to play ball with / against. The night ended, time to go back to one of the lads house. Out into a square, RUC van getting pelted with bottles, all the buckeens I was with picking up bottles & throwing them at the van. I bent down (not to be the odd one out) was about to pick up a bottle, then I caught myself on ... Hilarious all the same, some dacent God fearing south Derry boys acting the maggot. I wonder are any of them buckeens on here.

Them boys wouldn't be the best rioters. Us city boys premier division.

Hard to beat them at the football/hurling though.

One of the first big years we had in Derry with Halloween(think about 87) was finished with full on riot up the town. RUC blasted the Guildhall Square with plastic bullets, thankfully a distant memory now. Halloween in Derry cant be beat

It's an experience, always liked Derry haven't been there in a while. I'm hoping the Derry Rossie league game is in Celtic Park. Saturday evening would be great.

Taking nearly all the games to Owenbeg now unfortunately- I dont mind going there but not great for travelling fans

Only 1 game in the last 3 years of the National League has been played in Owenbeg. If we're drawn at home to the likes of Roscommon, Galway or Down, those games will most likely be in Celtic Pk. Up the NHS

Didn't realise that. Cosier ground  . #nhspayingmymortgage
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 17, 2021, 03:30:15 PM
ROI weekly update. A high increase in cases this week and the hospital numbers with a similar increase as last week.  42 of today's increase in hospital was not attributed to admissions so we have a troublesome outbreak in some hospital

Cases 11991 (2458 more that last week and that's the highest weekly case number since late August.)

In hospital 459 (74 more than last Sunday)

In ICU 74 (no change)

Dr Colm Henry said yesterday while he expects weekly case numbers to rumble on at a high level he does not expect any wild surges in case numbers in the future.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 17, 2021, 05:29:20 PM
i had sore throat but my nose never really ran.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 18, 2021, 08:31:59 AM
Tweet from Cillian de Gascun

Whilst vaccination reduces the risk of Delta infection, fully vaccinated individuals have viral loads similar to unvaccinated & can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts (Singanayagamet al, madRxiv.

;D Never mind the bollocks here's the science ehh Luke O Neill ::) He's a bluffer with a good few euro in his pocket.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 18, 2021, 09:13:31 AM
Has Luke O"Neill said something different?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on October 18, 2021, 09:23:33 AM
Quote from: Rudi on October 18, 2021, 08:31:59 AM
Tweet from Cillian de Gascun

Whilst vaccination reduces the risk of Delta infection, fully vaccinated individuals have viral loads similar to unvaccinated & can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts (Singanayagamet al, madRxiv.

;D Never mind the bollocks here's the science ehh Luke O Neill ::) He's a bluffer with a good few euro in his pocket.

That's been known for a while. But you get people (frankly idiots) who misinterpret this as meaning vaccines don't work or don't matter, and they ignore the fact that you're far far less likely to catch Covid if you have been vaccinated. And those idiots spread the message to other idiots, resulting in the self fulfilling prophecy that too many don't get the vaccine, so the vaccine does not eliminate the virus.

The above was 1 of 18 tweets De Gascun had yesterday on the subject as he was explaining how herd immunity or what he prefers to call "Community Level Protection" works with vaccines.

The reproductive number is important and De Gascun compared vaccine effectiveness (VE) and vaccine uptake of other viruses:

Smallpox: VE 95%, uptake > 80% worldwide = eradicated
Endemic Rubella: VE 99%, uptake > 92% Ireland = eliminated
Endemic Measles: VE 95%, uptake > 92% Ireland = eliminated
Endemic Mumps: VE: 65-75%, uptake > 92% Ireland = not eliminated

For Covid, VE ranges from 53% to 91% (overall 75% is reasonable estimate). 88% uptake in those over 12 in Ireland, means 75-80% across the whole population, so overall vaccines on their own cannot control Covid at current uptake levels. Therefore, additional public health measures, including increasing vaccine uptake is required to control Covid.

But De Gascun also emphasised that the vaccines are very effective at protecting against hospitalisation and severe disease.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 18, 2021, 09:50:04 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2021, 09:23:33 AM
Quote from: Rudi on October 18, 2021, 08:31:59 AM
Tweet from Cillian de Gascun

Whilst vaccination reduces the risk of Delta infection, fully vaccinated individuals have viral loads similar to unvaccinated & can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts (Singanayagamet al, madRxiv.

;D Never mind the bollocks here's the science ehh Luke O Neill ::) He's a bluffer with a good few euro in his pocket.

That's been known for a while. But you get people (frankly idiots) who misinterpret this as meaning vaccines don't work or don't matter, and they ignore the fact that you're far far less likely to catch Covid if you have been vaccinated. And those idiots spread the message to other idiots, resulting in the self fulfilling prophecy that too many don't get the vaccine, so the vaccine does not eliminate the virus.

The above was 1 of 18 tweets De Gascun had yesterday on the subject as he was explaining how herd immunity or what he prefers to call "Community Level Protection" works with vaccines.

The reproductive number is important and De Gascun compared vaccine effectiveness (VE) and vaccine uptake of other viruses:

Smallpox: VE 95%, uptake > 80% worldwide = eradicated
Endemic Rubella: VE 99%, uptake > 92% Ireland = eliminated
Endemic Measles: VE 95%, uptake > 92% Ireland = eliminated
Endemic Mumps: VE: 65-75%, uptake > 92% Ireland = not eliminated

For Covid, VE ranges from 53% to 91% (overall 75% is reasonable estimate). 88% uptake in those over 12 in Ireland, means 75-80% across the whole population, so overall vaccines on their own cannot control Covid at current uptake levels. Therefore, additional public health measures, including increasing vaccine uptake is required to control Covid.

But De Gascun also emphasised that the vaccines are very effective at protecting against hospitalisation and severe disease.

Idiots including people who should know better like Luke O Neill & Pat Kenny who don't want to eat in restaurants with the unvaccinated as they are multiple times more likely to pass on Covid that the vaccinated.
I fully accept everything you wrote above as being accurate, the vaccine is doing a job in saving lives & reducing the pressure in hospitals. However the efficacy of these vaccines is poor. The immunity depreciates very significantly over time, therefore the requirement for boosters. A greater proportion of people aged 20 - 60 are  unlikely to take up the opportunity to get the booster jab, scientists have to develop a better treatment for Covid, than the current vaccines.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on October 18, 2021, 10:21:25 AM
But people who are unvaccinated are more likely to catch Covid than people who are vaccinated, therefore, you are much safer eating in a restaurant that only allows vaccinated to attend.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on October 18, 2021, 10:22:41 AM
I think it's important to keep the "high expressed emotion" out of the argument.
The vaccines aren't perfect but they have been very effective in keeping people out of hospital. They don't prevent spread and arguably if vaccinated people get complacent and don't continue to practice good covid hygiene practices, they will contribute significantly to rise in cases. The vaccines protect most from serious illness , but if there are more cases then even a small percentage of a large number of cases could break the NHS. The nhs has been grossly underfunded for years snd this pandemic has exposed this dramatically.
Imho there is only one path to take. Promote worldwide vaccination , and incentivisation through vaccine passports will help. In addition we must continue to practice Covid safety sense, this needs to be easy measures That the population can sustain economically and psychologically. This approach to eradication via herd immunity thru vaccination and infections , whilst keeping numbers low so as not to break the nhs is probably our only hope of getting on top of this. Taking any other approach is high risk  and likely to lead to significantly more deaths.
Anyone proposing a different strategy , has no hope of it succeeding , as they are fighting against very very strong scientific arguments. The only possible impact of anti-vacc strategies is to delay combatting this pandemic and cause many more deaths.
In short vaccinate the world, get boosters when available, keep Covid smart , and beat this.
Part of that strategy must be worldwide social media regulation that prevents poor quality anecdotal opinion being treated on an equal footing to established and very strong medical evidence .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 18, 2021, 10:26:14 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2021, 10:21:25 AM
But people who are unvaccinated are more likely to catch Covid than people who are vaccinated, therefore, you are much safer eating in a restaurant that only allows vaccinated to attend.

Fair enough I don't disagree, however that was not the primary reason for exclusion of unvaccinated people from indoor dining in this country.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 18, 2021, 10:49:41 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on October 18, 2021, 10:22:41 AM
I think it's important to keep the "high expressed emotion" out of the argument.
The vaccines aren't perfect but they have been very effective in keeping people out of hospital. They don't prevent spread and arguably if vaccinated people get complacent and don't continue to practice good covid hygiene practices, they will contribute significantly to rise in cases. The vaccines protect most from serious illness , but if there are more cases then even a small percentage of a large number of cases could break the NHS. The nhs has been grossly underfunded for years snd this pandemic has exposed this dramatically.
Imho there is only one path to take. Promote worldwide vaccination , and incentivisation through vaccine passports will help. In addition we must continue to practice Covid safety sense, this needs to be easy measures That the population can sustain economically and psychologically. This approach to eradication via herd immunity thru vaccination and infections , whilst keeping numbers low so as not to break the nhs is probably our only hope of getting on top of this. Taking any other approach is high risk  and likely to lead to significantly more deaths.
Anyone proposing a different strategy , has no hope of it succeeding , as they are fighting against very very strong scientific arguments. The only possible impact of anti-vacc strategies is to delay combatting this pandemic and cause many more deaths.
In short vaccinate the world, get boosters when available, keep Covid smart , and beat this.
Part of that strategy must be worldwide social media regulation that prevents poor quality anecdotal opinion being treated on an equal footing to established and very strong medical evidence .

Does this apply to mis-information such as that which the poster "Thatstheball" has highlighted. It was claimed by numerous scientists including our own members of Nphet that the unvaccinated carried higher viral loads than the vaccinated in relation to the spread of Covid. Mis-information is a two way street.
Edit - This is in relation to the last sentence of your commentary.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on October 18, 2021, 11:16:45 AM
But also one fool in Mater Belfast does not tarnish the actual medical experts.

Rudi, you are placing a lot of emphasis on the viral load. While it's disappointing, the main point about it is that it just means vaccinated still have to be careful with social distancing etc.
It doesn't improve the position of the unvaccinated. An unvaccinated person is still more likely to pass on Covid, because an unvaccinated person is more likely to catch Covid. You can't pass it on until you get it, and you significantly reduce your chances of getting it by being jabbed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 18, 2021, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2021, 11:16:45 AM
But also one fool in Mater Belfast does not tarnish the actual medical experts.

Rudi, you are placing a lot of emphasis on the viral load. While it's disappointing, the main point about it is that it just means vaccinated still have to be careful with social distancing etc.
It doesn't improve the position of the unvaccinated. An unvaccinated person is still more likely to pass on Covid, because an unvaccinated person is more likely to catch Covid. You can't pass it on until you get it, and you significantly reduce your chances of getting it by being jabbed.

I get that Hound, I'm not anti vaccination. However I was lead to believe that the un unvaccinated carried greater viral loads than the vaccinated. This was the story from Luke O Neill & the boys in Nphet up until recently.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 18, 2021, 11:23:25 AM
NPHET are not interested in individual transmission, they are interested in population transmission. The reduction in population transmission comes about because vaccinated are less likely to be infected and because they clear the infection more quickly.
There is no contradiction in saying that saying that on aggregate vaccinated people have lower viral loads and saying that an individual may be just as infectious although vaccinated and so that people with symptoms or who are contacts need to be careful.

Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2021, 11:16:45 AM
You can't pass it on until you get it, and you significantly reduce your chances of getting it by being jabbed.

Exactly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: red hander on October 18, 2021, 11:33:19 AM
See that bastard Hutchings has contracted Covid. Good chance he got if off one of those loyalist scumbags he kept hugging on his way into court. Oh, the irony.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 18, 2021, 12:12:51 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on October 18, 2021, 10:38:53 AM
so much misinformation and lies. read this about the Mater and further down in the article about another claim by at another hospital reported by the BBC

https://citizenjournos.com/2021/10/06/confirmed-the-mater-hospital-was-not-full-of-unvaccinated-20-30-year-olds-on-ventilators-on-the-22nd-july/?fbclid=IwAR00_KAGnsV3eH56NBd0onAfSk6KgqOoyYtecWjAnCBbE9B8bEjMrw3eXs0 (https://citizenjournos.com/2021/10/06/confirmed-the-mater-hospital-was-not-full-of-unvaccinated-20-30-year-olds-on-ventilators-on-the-22nd-july/?fbclid=IwAR00_KAGnsV3eH56NBd0onAfSk6KgqOoyYtecWjAnCBbE9B8bEjMrw3eXs0)

Misinformation should absolutely be called out. But it's worthwhile stating that these were claims by individuals, not published reports. One was regarding a tweet by NHS employee. Not a published report by a health board or the DoH. The other a claim by another employee (That the BBC should have fact checked). It's very different from trying to claim the official reports or figures are incorrect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 18, 2021, 01:03:20 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on October 18, 2021, 10:38:53 AM
so much misinformation and lies. read this about the Mater and further down in the article about another claim by at another hospital reported by the BBC

https://citizenjournos.com/2021/10/06/confirmed-the-mater-hospital-was-not-full-of-unvaccinated-20-30-year-olds-on-ventilators-on-the-22nd-july/?fbclid=IwAR00_KAGnsV3eH56NBd0onAfSk6KgqOoyYtecWjAnCBbE9B8bEjMrw3eXs0 (https://citizenjournos.com/2021/10/06/confirmed-the-mater-hospital-was-not-full-of-unvaccinated-20-30-year-olds-on-ventilators-on-the-22nd-july/?fbclid=IwAR00_KAGnsV3eH56NBd0onAfSk6KgqOoyYtecWjAnCBbE9B8bEjMrw3eXs0)
That "Citizen Journos" yoke is an anti-vaccine propaganda site.

It has less credibility as a source of Covid information than your local drug dealer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 18, 2021, 03:59:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2021, 10:21:25 AM
But people who are unvaccinated are more likely to catch Covid than people who are vaccinated, therefore, you are much safer eating in a restaurant that only allows vaccinated to attend.

Been a long time away and should probably have stayed away given this sort of drivel filling up pages.

It is generally accepted that vaccination does not stop infection and in fact recent data shows that out with those under 30 (the group at an almost zero risk of death from Covid) the vaccinated are significantly more likely to catch Covid.

Of course those are just the numbers and don't actually put the meat on the bones as to the reasons why.  Of which there may be many.  Perhaps including being cosied into restaurants etc with other vaccinated individuals.

The arguments for vaccination revolve around lowering risk of hospitalisation and indeed death and again the data backs this up at face value.  And again there needs to be meat on the bones as hidden factors such as contraindications due to already poor health may be at play.

So it looks like there is not a huge volume of unvaccinated winding up in hospital due to the profile of the unvaccinated (mostly young and healthy).

However a hospital bed is a hospital bed and preventing someone using one up is always the ideal approach.

As such I would advocate more emphasis on risk profile of the individual.  Because, in the age groups the majority of the unvaccinated belong, those winding up in hospital are often obese, have alcohol issues or other underlying health conditions.

I believe if anyone needs to be targeted it is the high risk individuals who are unvaccinated but do not understand their risk profile.

The vaccine passport and the salivating for it has confirmed what I have known for a long time re modern Ireland and where many within it are with regards where they came from and what their ancestors fought and died for.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on October 18, 2021, 04:27:30 PM
Quoterecent data shows that out with those under 30 (the group at an almost zero risk of death from Covid) the vaccinated are significantly more likely to catch Covid.

This would be news to most people that getting the vaccine increases the chances of you catching Covid! I don't want to outright call you a liar, so can you put up some reputable links to support this recent data?

When vaccines were not widely available, they were targetted at the high risk groups as you suggest. That made absolute sense.

However, now that vaccines are widely available, it's important that everyone is vaccinated, to both reduce risk of Covid, and thus and very importantly provide additional and very needed protection for the high risk groups.

Those who choose not to get vaccinated and thus increase their own risk of catching Covid which increases the risk of them spreading Covid to their friends and neighbours are selfish and certainly must have forgotten "where they came from and what their ancestors fought and died for".

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 18, 2021, 04:35:42 PM
Quoterecent data shows that out with those under 30 (the group at an almost zero risk of death from Covid) the vaccinated are significantly more likely to catch Covid.

Do you have a source for that?

It the above is true it would be pretty major news...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on October 18, 2021, 04:38:28 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 18, 2021, 03:59:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2021, 10:21:25 AM
But people who are unvaccinated are more likely to catch Covid than people who are vaccinated, therefore, you are much safer eating in a restaurant that only allows vaccinated to attend.

Been a long time away and should probably have stayed away given this sort of drivel filling up pages.

It is generally accepted that vaccination does not stop infection and in fact recent data shows that out with those under 30 (the group at an almost zero risk of death from Covid) the vaccinated are significantly more likely to catch Covid.

Of course those are just the numbers and don't actually put the meat on the bones as to the reasons why.  Of which there may be many.  Perhaps including being cosied into restaurants etc with other vaccinated individuals.

The arguments for vaccination revolve around lowering risk of hospitalisation and indeed death and again the data backs this up at face value.  And again there needs to be meat on the bones as hidden factors such as contraindications due to already poor health may be at play.

So it looks like there is not a huge volume of unvaccinated winding up in hospital due to the profile of the unvaccinated (mostly young and healthy).

However a hospital bed is a hospital bed and preventing someone using one up is always the ideal approach.

As such I would advocate more emphasis on risk profile of the individual.  Because, in the age groups the majority of the unvaccinated belong, those winding up in hospital are often obese, have alcohol issues or other underlying health conditions.

I believe if anyone needs to be targeted it is the high risk individuals who are unvaccinated but do not understand their risk profile.

The vaccine passport and the salivating for it has confirmed what I have known for a long time re modern Ireland and where many within it are with regards where they came from and what their ancestors fought and died for.

So you've decided to add more absolute drivel. Vaccination doesn't prevent you from getting covid-19 but it reduces your chances significantly. It also significantly reduces your chances of requiring hospital treatment if you do get covid. It is absolute nonsense to say that being vaccinated increases your chances of getting covid in a particular cohort.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on October 18, 2021, 04:41:05 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 18, 2021, 03:59:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2021, 10:21:25 AM
But people who are unvaccinated are more likely to catch Covid than people who are vaccinated, therefore, you are much safer eating in a restaurant that only allows vaccinated to attend.

Been a long time away and should probably have stayed away given this sort of drivel filling up pages.

It is generally accepted that vaccination does not stop infection and in fact recent data shows that out with those under 30 (the group at an almost zero risk of death from Covid) the vaccinated are significantly more likely to catch Covid.


Unless you can back this statement up with scientific facts I think its safe to say we can file it under 'drivel filling up pages'.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 18, 2021, 05:44:23 PM
So presumably you big blouses like data that shows vaccination reduces hospital risk and death risk but don't like data showing that those vaccinated and aged over 30 are more likely to test positive?

Apologies for my lack of familiarity with this site but someone remind me how to share screenshots.

Thanks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on October 18, 2021, 06:26:46 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 18, 2021, 05:44:23 PM
So presumably you big blouses like data that shows vaccination reduces hospital risk and death risk but don't like data showing that those vaccinated and aged over 30 are more likely to test positive?

Apologies for my lack of familiarity with this site but someone remind me how to share screenshots.

Thanks.

Lol, around 80% of people over 30 have been vaccinated. That means that they're the vast majority of the population. That also means because there's way more of them there might even be more vaccinated people in that age bracket who've got Covid. That doesn't equate to someone who's vaccinated being more likely to get Covid. It's the complete opposite.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 18, 2021, 06:27:31 PM
In the absence of knowing how to share data shots here is a one stop shop from the UK:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1019992/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_38.pdf

May I refer you to tables 2, 3, 4 from page 13.

And just for a bit of fun here are a few quiz questions.

Which county in Ireland has the highest vaccination rate?

Which county in Ireland has the highest infection rate?

Which county in Ireland has the 2nd highest vaccination rate?

Which county in Ireland has the 2nd highest infection rate?

The clue is there are only two answers.

And anyway back to my main point and that is this.  Those who remain unvaccinated have already made their mind up so you are not going to change their mind by shouting at them or discriminating against them.

Many of these unvaccinated will be at an extremely low risk of hospitalisation and many will already have natural immunity.

So for me the argument rests on impact on services.

We know the younger part of population is more likely to be unvaccinated and also be lowest risk.  But we know this is general and there will be high risk among the unvaccinated and of these many might not even know they are high risk.

So why have we not approached risk profile and steps to mitigate such a losing weight?  FFS have you seen the weight some people have put on during this while they should have been focusing hard the other way? And don't be peddling widely available vaccines as reason everyone should just go and get vaccinated.  That is a lazy argument at best and as already mentioned you are not going to change these individuals minds easily.

Oh and I think it is great that we now have so many unselfish people in society.  So much so I wonder why we have a housing crisis.  Surely all these virtuous unselfish citizens should be easily able to accommodate the homeless and some.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 18, 2021, 06:29:24 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 18, 2021, 06:26:46 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 18, 2021, 05:44:23 PM
So presumably you big blouses like data that shows vaccination reduces hospital risk and death risk but don't like data showing that those vaccinated and aged over 30 are more likely to test positive?

Apologies for my lack of familiarity with this site but someone remind me how to share screenshots.

Thanks.

Lol, around 80% of people over 30 have been vaccinated. That means that they're the vast majority of the population. That also means because there's way more of them there might even be more vaccinated people in that age bracket who've got Covid. That doesn't equate to someone who's vaccinated being more likely to get Covid. It's the complete opposite.

Apologies.  I should have said per 100,000 population but good to see you are sharp onto that as would of course be a very relevant point in the absence of detail from me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on October 18, 2021, 09:49:57 PM
Quote from: red hander on October 18, 2021, 11:33:19 AM
See that bastard Hutchings has contracted Covid. Good chance he got if off one of those loyalist scumbags he kept hugging on his way into court. Oh, the irony.
Brown bread. Shame he didn't live to see out the rest of his trial
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 18, 2021, 10:16:38 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 18, 2021, 06:27:31 PM
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1019992/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_38.pdf

May I refer you to tables 2, 3, 4 from page 13.

Look at column 2 of table 2. Notice the inversion when comparing to column 2 of tables 3 and 4?

... and obviously look at columns 8 and 9 of tables 3 and 4.

Vaccines are (unfortunately) not bullet proof, but they do markedly reduce risk of serious illness.

Is that good enough? Probably not. But without giving people a mix up of vaccines to see if targeting different aspects gives better immune responses, we don't really have anything else.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 19, 2021, 03:10:41 AM
https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1254185/

Speaking on RTÉ's This Week, Mr Reid also said 40% of people in hospital with Covid are below the age of 65 and of those in ICU 65% are unvaccinated.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on October 19, 2021, 06:41:35 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 18, 2021, 03:59:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2021, 10:21:25 AM
But people who are unvaccinated are more likely to catch Covid than people who are vaccinated, therefore, you are much safer eating in a restaurant that only allows vaccinated to attend.

Been a long time away and should probably have stayed away given this sort of drivel filling up pages.

recent data shows that out with those under 30 (the group at an almost zero risk of death from Covid) the vaccinated are significantly more likely to catch Covid.

Just to confirm that the link the drivelmeister put up himself proves this is completely and utterly false (table 2 page 13), as we all knew anyway.

But he did perform a very useful service.  Tables 3, 4 and 5 on pages 14-16 show clearly and indisputably just how valuable vaccines are, with hospitalization and death rates for the unvaccinated being multiples times in excess of the vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 19, 2021, 09:18:01 AM
Is yer man just a Gemmaroidbot who's been tasked with spreading anti vaccination sh1te?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on October 19, 2021, 09:19:37 AM
Due to travel international in a few weeks time.  The fact that I'll be 6 months since second vaccine then concerns me given what appears to be increasing discussion ref. the waning immunity within this timeframe.  Effectively I could be on an long haul flight with limited immunity ... a booster jab before then would be good, but that is a long way off.  So I've a decision to make ref. going or not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 19, 2021, 10:34:46 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on October 19, 2021, 09:19:37 AM
Due to travel international in a few weeks time.  The fact that I'll be 6 months since second vaccine then concerns me given what appears to be increasing discussion ref. the waning immunity within this timeframe.  Effectively I could be on an long haul flight with limited immunity ... a booster jab before then would be good, but that is a long way off.  So I've a decision to make ref. going or not.

You've had the 2 jabs, take all precautions, adhere to all regs Ballad and go for it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 10:51:14 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 19, 2021, 06:41:35 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 18, 2021, 03:59:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2021, 10:21:25 AM
But people who are unvaccinated are more likely to catch Covid than people who are vaccinated, therefore, you are much safer eating in a restaurant that only allows vaccinated to attend.

Been a long time away and should probably have stayed away given this sort of drivel filling up pages.

recent data shows that out with those under 30 (the group at an almost zero risk of death from Covid) the vaccinated are significantly more likely to catch Covid.

Just to confirm that the link the drivelmeister put up himself proves this is completely and utterly false (table 2 page 13), as we all knew anyway.

But he did perform a very useful service.  Tables 3, 4 and 5 on pages 14-16 show clearly and indisputably just how valuable vaccines are, with hospitalization and death rates for the unvaccinated being multiples times in excess of the vaccinated.

So you don't accept the data in table 2 showing if over 30 and vaccinated, significantly more likely to test positive for this coronavirus.

However, you like the data confirming what I posted about positive impact on hospitalisations and deaths.

All contained within the same report but not all fitting your narrative.

Ladies and Gentlemen (and others), I give you confirmation bias.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 10:59:29 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 19, 2021, 03:10:41 AM
https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1254185/

Speaking on RTÉ's This Week, Mr Reid also said 40% of people in hospital with Covid are below the age of 65 and of those in ICU 65% are unvaccinated.

I wonder how many are obese, have alcohol/liver issues and other underlying issues both self inflicted and as a result of poor luck.

As I said before these are the people who have been failed by advice, or rather lack of, about risk profiles.

Perhaps if they were better informed they would have made different choices.


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.axios.com/bmi-obesity-severe-risk-factors-covid-19-cdc-063fb142-234c-4654-98b1-de357fb8df87.html

And to think we have people shouting for vaccination of children to protect adults.  Aside from being completely counter intuitive for humans to use children as a shield it is the adults themselves, in most cases, who could protect themselves.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 19, 2021, 11:13:57 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 10:59:29 AM

Perhaps if they were better informed they would have made different choices.

They were, we all told them to get vaccinated but they did not.


QuoteAnd to think we have people shouting for vaccination of children to protect adults.  Aside from being completely counter intuitive for humans to use children as a shield it is the adults themselves, in most cases, who could protect themselves.

It is proper for society to act to protect the vulnerable, whether they be adults or children.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 19, 2021, 11:19:59 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 10:59:29 AM

And to think we have people shouting for vaccination of children to protect adults.  Aside from being completely counter intuitive for humans to use children as a shield it is the adults themselves, in most cases, who could protect themselves.
You realise that we already vaccinate babies for lots of things, yes?

What is the ideological objection to vaccinating children of all ages for Covid if and when the vaccines are approved for children of all ages?

I can only think it would be an ideological objection to vaccinating children for anything?



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 11:25:48 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 19, 2021, 11:13:57 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 10:59:29 AM

Perhaps if they were better informed they would have made different choices.

They were, we all told them to get vaccinated but they did not.


QuoteAnd to think we have people shouting for vaccination of children to protect adults.  Aside from being completely counter intuitive for humans to use children as a shield it is the adults themselves, in most cases, who could protect themselves.

It is proper for society to act to protect the vulnerable, whether they be adults or children.

Sounds like a man who would burn his house down to get rid of a mouse in the kitchen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 11:27:16 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 19, 2021, 11:19:59 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 10:59:29 AM

And to think we have people shouting for vaccination of children to protect adults.  Aside from being completely counter intuitive for humans to use children as a shield it is the adults themselves, in most cases, who could protect themselves.
You realise that we already vaccinate babies for lots of things, yes?

What is the ideological objection to vaccinating children of all ages for Covid if and when the vaccines are approved for children of all ages?

I can only think it would be an ideological objection to vaccinating children for anything?


Sorry I thought this thread was about the Coronavirus that has been encroaching on all our lives with its specific vulnerable groups.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on October 19, 2021, 11:39:22 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 10:51:14 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 19, 2021, 06:41:35 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 18, 2021, 03:59:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2021, 10:21:25 AM
But people who are unvaccinated are more likely to catch Covid than people who are vaccinated, therefore, you are much safer eating in a restaurant that only allows vaccinated to attend.

Been a long time away and should probably have stayed away given this sort of drivel filling up pages.

recent data shows that out with those under 30 (the group at an almost zero risk of death from Covid) the vaccinated are significantly more likely to catch Covid.

Just to confirm that the link the drivelmeister put up himself proves this is completely and utterly false (table 2 page 13), as we all knew anyway.

But he did perform a very useful service.  Tables 3, 4 and 5 on pages 14-16 show clearly and indisputably just how valuable vaccines are, with hospitalization and death rates for the unvaccinated being multiples times in excess of the vaccinated.

So you don't accept the data in table 2 showing of over 30 and vaccinated, significantly more likely to test positive for Covid.

However, you like the data confirming what I posted about positive impact on hospitalisations and deaths.

All contained within the same report but not all fitting your narrative.

Ladies and Gentlemen (and others), I give you confirmation bias.
You're the picking out a very small part of the document and ignoring every other part of it which contradicts your theory!

Can you confirm you were completely wrong and false saying unders 30s who are no vaccinated have lower positivity rates?

The data in the lower part of table 2 is not positive but is easily explained. One, unfortunately as a significant amount of people did not get vaccinated, Covid has not been eliminated, so the vaccine effectiveness in older age groups is waning, therefore boosters are needed. Also and impacting more on the stats is that the table only covers a specific 3-week period, so it does not take account of the unvaccinated who already tested positive.

But clearly as outlined in Tables 3, 4 and 5, the hospitalisation and death rate figures indisputably just how valuable vaccines are, and nobody with a brain who has reviewed these figures could conclude that vaccines are not a good idea.

As it states in black and white in the report:

The rate of hospitalisation within 28 days of a positive COVID-19 test increases with age and is substantially greater in unvaccinated individuals compared to vaccinated individuals.

The rate of death within 28 days or within 60 days of a positive COVID-19 test increases with age, and again is substantially greater in unvaccinated individuals compared to fully
vaccinated individuals.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on October 19, 2021, 11:49:36 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on October 19, 2021, 09:19:37 AM
Due to travel international in a few weeks time.  The fact that I'll be 6 months since second vaccine then concerns me given what appears to be increasing discussion ref. the waning immunity within this timeframe.  Effectively I could be on an long haul flight with limited immunity ... a booster jab before then would be good, but that is a long way off.  So I've a decision to make ref. going or not.
The thing is everyone reacts differently. You could have zero protection or you could have loads.
You could get a blood test to see what your antibody level was like. That might bring some re-assurance but will probably cost money. Note though that a blood test / antibody test understates your protection level as it does not measure T cells, which is an important part of your immunity.

I think the airlines say that the air circulation in planes means that they are a safe environment. Not sure if that stands up or not. If the airline still insists on masks that would reduce risk. Also there'd obviously be a big difference to sitting directly beside a stranger for the duration rather than a relative who's in your bubble anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 19, 2021, 12:06:15 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 11:27:16 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 19, 2021, 11:19:59 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 10:59:29 AM

And to think we have people shouting for vaccination of children to protect adults.  Aside from being completely counter intuitive for humans to use children as a shield it is the adults themselves, in most cases, who could protect themselves.
You realise that we already vaccinate babies for lots of things, yes?

What is the ideological objection to vaccinating children of all ages for Covid if and when the vaccines are approved for children of all ages?

I can only think it would be an ideological objection to vaccinating children for anything?


Sorry I thought this thread was about the Coronavirus that has been encroaching on all our lives with its specific vulnerable groups.
Are you ideologically opposed to vaccinating children for everything, or just for Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 12:15:41 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 19, 2021, 11:39:22 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 10:51:14 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 19, 2021, 06:41:35 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 18, 2021, 03:59:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2021, 10:21:25 AM
But people who are unvaccinated are more likely to catch Covid than people who are vaccinated, therefore, you are much safer eating in a restaurant that only allows vaccinated to attend.

Been a long time away and should probably have stayed away given this sort of drivel filling up pages.

recent data shows that out with those under 30 (the group at an almost zero risk of death from Covid) the vaccinated are significantly more likely to catch Covid.

Just to confirm that the link the drivelmeister put up himself proves this is completely and utterly false (table 2 page 13), as we all knew anyway.

But he did perform a very useful service.  Tables 3, 4 and 5 on pages 14-16 show clearly and indisputably just how valuable vaccines are, with hospitalization and death rates for the unvaccinated being multiples times in excess of the vaccinated.

So you don't accept the data in table 2 showing of over 30 and vaccinated, significantly more likely to test positive for Covid.

However, you like the data confirming what I posted about positive impact on hospitalisations and deaths.

All contained within the same report but not all fitting your narrative.

Ladies and Gentlemen (and others), I give you confirmation bias.
You're the picking out a very small part of the document and ignoring every other part of it which contradicts your theory!

Can you confirm you were completely wrong and false saying unders 30s who are no vaccinated have lower positivity rates?

The data in the lower part of table 2 is not positive but is easily explained. One, unfortunately as a significant amount of people did not get vaccinated, Covid has not been eliminated, so the vaccine effectiveness in older age groups is waning, therefore boosters are needed. Also and impacting more on the stats is that the table only covers a specific 3-week period, so it does not take account of the unvaccinated who already tested positive.

But clearly as outlined in Tables 3, 4 and 5, the hospitalisation and death rate figures indisputably just how valuable vaccines are, and nobody with a brain who has reviewed these figures could conclude that vaccines are not a good idea.

As it states in black and white in the report:

The rate of hospitalisation within 28 days of a positive COVID-19 test increases with age and is substantially greater in unvaccinated individuals compared to vaccinated individuals.

The rate of death within 28 days or within 60 days of a positive COVID-19 test increases with age, and again is substantially greater in unvaccinated individuals compared to fully
vaccinated individuals.

I said over 30s who are unvaccinated have lower positivity rates.  As confirmed by the data.

And as for all your waffle about how this might be.  Well we are comparing rates per 100,000 population by vaccination status so even if effectiveness is lowering it does not read well for the impact of vaccination on cases. 

You would want vaccinated cases to be much lower across all age groups. Not significantly higher.

And I didn't ignore the rest.  I was clear from the start about the positive impact on hospitalisations and death.

Look reading a few pages of this there is a noisy minority that seem to be affixed on the idea that the world should be vaccinated and the vaccine does everything from stopping you from dying to cooking your dinner.

It is this simple.  Vaccination has more or less peaked.  Do you want to find solutions for people who could benefit from risk profile advice and indeed vaccination or do you want to smash on with shameful vaccine apartheid and screaming about the unvaccinated.

Anyway I actually didn't come on here to go round in circles with the noisy minority.  My previous posts are all there so I am not going round on circles any more.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 12:21:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 19, 2021, 12:06:15 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 11:27:16 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 19, 2021, 11:19:59 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 10:59:29 AM

And to think we have people shouting for vaccination of children to protect adults.  Aside from being completely counter intuitive for humans to use children as a shield it is the adults themselves, in most cases, who could protect themselves.
You realise that we already vaccinate babies for lots of things, yes?

What is the ideological objection to vaccinating children of all ages for Covid if and when the vaccines are approved for children of all ages?

I can only think it would be an ideological objection to vaccinating children for anything?


Sorry I thought this thread was about the Coronavirus that has been encroaching on all our lives with its specific vulnerable groups.
Are you ideologically opposed to vaccinating children for everything, or just for Covid?

I am not against vaccination.  Rather I am for appropriateness, choice and an informed public. 

Anyway as with my last post.  Lot of what I am saying appears lost on some who seem intent on a pointless exercise of forcing people towards vaccination so will leave it at that and they can gang up on the next person who tries to propose an alternative solution to reducing pressure in our hospitals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 19, 2021, 01:10:33 PM
so nothings change today
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 19, 2021, 01:53:22 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 12:21:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 19, 2021, 12:06:15 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 11:27:16 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 19, 2021, 11:19:59 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 10:59:29 AM

And to think we have people shouting for vaccination of children to protect adults.  Aside from being completely counter intuitive for humans to use children as a shield it is the adults themselves, in most cases, who could protect themselves.
You realise that we already vaccinate babies for lots of things, yes?

What is the ideological objection to vaccinating children of all ages for Covid if and when the vaccines are approved for children of all ages?

I can only think it would be an ideological objection to vaccinating children for anything?


Sorry I thought this thread was about the Coronavirus that has been encroaching on all our lives with its specific vulnerable groups.
Are you ideologically opposed to vaccinating children for everything, or just for Covid?

I am not against vaccination.  Rather I am for appropriateness, choice and an informed public. 

Anyway as with my last post.  Lot of what I am saying appears lost on some who seem intent on a pointless exercise of forcing people towards vaccination so will leave it at that and they can gang up on the next person who tries to propose an alternative solution to reducing pressure in our hospitals.
You're engaging in meaningless sloganeering. What you posted here literally doesn't mean anything.

If you're not against vaccination for children for everything there's literally no valid reason at all to be against it for Covid when it is approved for 11 and under.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 02:39:50 PM
🙄
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 19, 2021, 03:42:02 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 10:59:29 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 19, 2021, 03:10:41 AM
https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1254185/

Speaking on RTÉ's This Week, Mr Reid also said 40% of people in hospital with Covid are below the age of 65 and of those in ICU 65% are unvaccinated.

I wonder how many are obese, have alcohol/liver issues and other underlying issues both self inflicted and as a result of poor luck.

As I said before these are the people who have been failed by advice, or rather lack of, about risk profiles.

Perhaps if they were better informed they would have made different choices.


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.axios.com/bmi-obesity-severe-risk-factors-covid-19-cdc-063fb142-234c-4654-98b1-de357fb8df87.html

And to think we have people shouting for vaccination of children to protect adults.  Aside from being completely counter intuitive for humans to use children as a shield it is the adults themselves, in most cases, who could protect themselves.

That last paragraph. Wow. You have not a notion son.

Here's a list of diseases babies already get vaccinated against in the north under the NHS vaccination program:

Diptheria
Tetanus
MenB
MenC
Hepatitis A
Polio
Measles
Mumps
Rubella
Rotavirus
Pneumococcal

But covid would be a step too far?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 19, 2021, 03:46:02 PM
Yep we really need to get polio, smallpox and all the rest back into society so anti vaxxers can have a choice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 05:53:39 PM
It really is fascinating how hysteria and fear shape otherwise rational peoples thinking.

Or hold on do you lot actually believe these vaccines are going to eradicate a Coronavirus?

Eradication is the greatest success of vaccinations.

If not eradicating then we are into protection.

Children don't need protecting from this virus any more than they need protecting from road traffic accidents.

If you are actually building your support for vaccinating children on the basis of historical vaccinations then there really is not debating with you.

Honestly that has to be one of the weakest arguments I have heard yet, especially in the context where the vaccination cannot even stop transmission.

Ah honestly that has given me a laugh.

Can't stop tens of thousands of people contracting on this Island alone but is on a par with the smallpox vaccine.

Nurse Nurse! 🤣
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 19, 2021, 06:13:42 PM
Angelo back for a fix
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 19, 2021, 06:24:22 PM
The UK had over 12,000 Covid deaths since "Freedom Day" and the end of compulsory masks.

The UK has the highest case numbers in Europe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 06:40:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 19, 2021, 06:24:22 PM
The UK had over 12,000 Covid deaths since "Freedom Day" and the end of compulsory masks.

The UK has the highest case numbers in Europe.

Also among the highest vaccination rates in the world.

Bit like the answers to my quiz questions yesterday.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2021, 06:58:56 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 05:53:39 PM
It really is fascinating how hysteria and fear shape otherwise rational peoples thinking.

Or hold on do you lot actually believe these vaccines are going to eradicate a Coronavirus?

Eradication is the greatest success of vaccinations.

If not eradicating then we are into protection.

Children don't need protecting from this virus any more than they need protecting from road traffic accidents.

If you are actually building your support for vaccinating children on the basis of historical vaccinations then there really is not debating with you.

Honestly that has to be one of the weakest arguments I have heard yet, especially in the context where the vaccination cannot even stop transmission.

Ah honestly that has given me a laugh.

Can't stop tens of thousands of people contracting on this Island alone but is on a par with the smallpox vaccine.

Nurse Nurse! 🤣

I think the hysteria is generated by the non vaxcers who have been vaccinated when young and have their own kids vaccinated!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 19, 2021, 07:05:42 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 06:40:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 19, 2021, 06:24:22 PM
The UK had over 12,000 Covid deaths since "Freedom Day" and the end of compulsory masks.

The UK has the highest case numbers in Europe.

Also among the highest vaccination rates in the world.

Bit like the answers to my quiz questions yesterday.
Mostly the AZ vaccine. Which is running out of gas.
Freedom Day was stupid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 19, 2021, 07:32:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2021, 06:58:56 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 19, 2021, 05:53:39 PM
It really is fascinating how hysteria and fear shape otherwise rational peoples thinking.

Or hold on do you lot actually believe these vaccines are going to eradicate a Coronavirus?

Eradication is the greatest success of vaccinations.

If not eradicating then we are into protection.

Children don't need protecting from this virus any more than they need protecting from road traffic accidents.

If you are actually building your support for vaccinating children on the basis of historical vaccinations then there really is not debating with you.

Honestly that has to be one of the weakest arguments I have heard yet, especially in the context where the vaccination cannot even stop transmission.

Ah honestly that has given me a laugh.

Can't stop tens of thousands of people contracting on this Island alone but is on a par with the smallpox vaccine.

Nurse Nurse! 🤣

I think the hysteria is generated by the non vaxcers who have been vaccinated when young and have their own kids vaccinated!

The anti vaxers would definitely be the most vocal, and 'screamy'. Like getting into people's faces, outside vaccination centres, constituency offices etc . Any interviews seem be of groups of middle aged women.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 19, 2021, 07:50:02 PM
One of them got his comeuppance today

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/1019/1254651-assault/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 19, 2021, 10:20:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 19, 2021, 03:10:41 AM
https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1254185/
of those in ICU 65% are unvaccinated.

Eeek!!

TBH - thats not great. Whats the vaccination rates in the ROI? They'd need to be well north of 90% for a number as low as 65% to be reassuring!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on October 19, 2021, 10:49:11 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 19, 2021, 10:20:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 19, 2021, 03:10:41 AM
https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1254185/
of those in ICU 65% are unvaccinated.

Eeek!!

TBH - thats not great. Whats the vaccination rates in the ROI? They'd need to be well north of 90% for a number as low as 65% to be reassuring!
89% fully vaccinated for everyone over the age of 12. Plenty of countries aren't going to get close to that percentage of its population vaccinated and the ROI figure isn't going to get much higher.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 19, 2021, 11:26:30 PM
So here we are, a plethora of people vaccinated! Positive numbers rising. Nothing really changing.

What has improved using this experimental Drug? Because it is an experimental drug until 2023!

It's well enough giving it to auld ones, But giving it to the youth of our society who are not in any danger is reckless.

My kids will not be getting it until it is approved officially in 2023.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on October 19, 2021, 11:35:14 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 19, 2021, 11:26:30 PM
So here we are, a plethora of people vaccinated! Positive numbers rising. Nothing really changing.

What has improved using this experimental Drug? Because it is an experimental drug until 2023!

It's well enough giving it to auld ones, But giving it to the youth of our society who are not in any danger is reckless.

My kids will not be getting it until it is approved officially in 2023.

Far less people dying if you have been paying attention
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 19, 2021, 11:43:39 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 19, 2021, 11:26:30 PM
So here we are, a plethora of people vaccinated! Positive numbers rising. Nothing really changing.

What has improved using this experimental Drug? Because it is an experimental drug until 2023!

It's well enough giving it to auld ones, But giving it to the youth of our society who are not in any danger is reckless.

My kids will not be getting it until it is approved officially in 2023.

If they are over 18 before that they'll do as they choose I'm sure, unless you're one of those parents
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on October 19, 2021, 11:59:09 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 19, 2021, 11:26:30 PM
So here we are, a plethora of people vaccinated! Positive numbers rising. Nothing really changing.

What has improved using this experimental Drug? Because it is an experimental drug until 2023!

It's well enough giving it to auld ones, But giving it to the youth of our society who are not in any danger is reckless.

My kids will not be getting it until it is approved officially in 2023.
74m under 18s in the USA 449 have died of covid since March last year , less than a flu season
Get the vaccination, give a booster to over 65 , be very careful if your immune system is compromised or you are obese ,take vitamin d and c   get out in the sun if you can when it's shining and try and get good sleep. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 20, 2021, 06:50:55 AM
The UK numbers are bad. They don't know exactly why. There is a new variant called
AY.4.2 which may have contributed but it looks like the no mask crowd may also be contributing significantly.

If you have cases doubling every 9 days starting with 1 case after 180 days you get 1,048,576 cases.
But if cases increase by an extra 10% due to no masks every 9 days you would end up with 2,782,184 cases after 180 days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 20, 2021, 06:57:42 AM
Quote from: Gmac on October 19, 2021, 11:59:09 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 19, 2021, 11:26:30 PM
So here we are, a plethora of people vaccinated! Positive numbers rising. Nothing really changing.

What has improved using this experimental Drug? Because it is an experimental drug until 2023!

It's well enough giving it to auld ones, But giving it to the youth of our society who are not in any danger is reckless.

My kids will not be getting it until it is approved officially in 2023.
74m under 18s in the USA 449 have died of covid since March last year , less than a flu season
Get the vaccination, give a booster to over 65 , be very careful if your immune system is compromised or you are obese ,take vitamin d and c   get out in the sun if you can when it's shining and try and get good sleep.

So vaccine mandates are wrong but telling fatties to stay indoors is ok. Obese people make up nearly a third of the population.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on October 20, 2021, 06:58:03 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 20, 2021, 06:50:55 AM
The UK numbers are bad. They don't know exactly why. There is a new variant called
AY.4.2 which may have contributed but it looks like the no mask crowd may also be contributing significantly.

If you have cases doubling every 9 days starting with 1 case after 180 days you get 1,048,576 cases.
But if cases increase by an extra 10% due to no masks every 9 days you would end up with 2,782,184 cases after 180 days.

The Uk plateaued off in terms of vaccinations and many countries have overtaken them in percentage of the population vaccinated. Unlike most other countries Britain has almost everything open with no restrictions including schools and nightclubs. No masks are required any more, close contacts don't have to isolate, and then people wonder why the numbers have gone through the roof. The corrupt tory government are still after herd immunity and don't care how many people die or end up with long covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on October 20, 2021, 08:40:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 20, 2021, 06:50:55 AM
The UK numbers are bad. They don't know exactly why. There is a new variant called
AY.4.2 which may have contributed but it looks like the no mask crowd may also be contributing significantly.

If you have cases doubling every 9 days starting with 1 case after 180 days you get 1,048,576 cases.
But if cases increase by an extra 10% due to no masks every 9 days you would end up with 2,782,184 cases after 180 days.

Serious question seafoid, what do you think we should do? You are extremely negative on here and seem to revel in the doom and gloom, would you jus like everyone to go back in to lockdown for another 6 months?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 20, 2021, 09:11:58 AM
I just don't see how a (full) lockdown is possible again.

The whole bloody thing is a mess. The "anti vax" stuff is getting more militant too and I don't think it's going to be too long until somebody gets badly hurt with the way the "movement" is going. I don't care if you don't believe in the vaccine btw - it's just when you believe a lot of shite like 90+% of the world are absolute morons because they do and it is just a new world order etc etc. Those are the views that are bonkers.

Going nowhere soon unfortunately and I don't think anyone really knows what to do or if they do they haven't the balls to do it  :( Eradication is clearly not possible so how do you get to where you want to get to with it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 09:24:39 AM
Was listening to 5 live on the way into work, the vast majority of those with Covid in hospital are not vaccinated, that came from the head of the medical doctors federation, he also said that we will need to have the booster to help with this winter as people's immunes will be less due to the last time they had the second jab..

Now, I'd take the information from him over the crackpots on facebook in fairness, I know, call me crazy...

Who knows what's going to happen this winter, it won't be pretty that's for sure, but if several million of people in the UK haven't taken a vaccine how will it ever work?

Are we going down to the point of acceptable death, with hospitals over run with more 'acceptable' deaths from other issues because we have no staff to run it or beds to put people in?


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 09:45:56 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 09:24:39 AM
Was listening to 5 live on the way into work, the vast majority of those with Covid in hospital are not vaccinated, that came from the head of the medical doctors federation, he also said that we will need to have the booster to help with this winter as people's immunes will be less due to the last time they had the second jab..

Now, I'd take the information from him over the crackpots on facebook in fairness, I know, call me crazy...

Who knows what's going to happen this winter, it won't be pretty that's for sure, but if several million of people in the UK haven't taken a vaccine how will it ever work?

Are we going down to the point of acceptable death, with hospitals over run with more 'acceptable' deaths from other issues because we have no staff to run it or beds to put people in?

Vast majority?  Really?

Latest published official (not Facebook or some 5 live propaganda merchant) UK data week 34 to week 37:
Hospitalisations unvaccinated: 3,220 (out of a a total of 8,255)
*revised from original post that only presented figures for over 80's

What is clear is that the proportion unvaccinated grows from cases through hospitalisations and deaths.

But related to that and a serious question.  How many people here understand their own risk profile?  How many accept that this virus clearly does discriminate?

Because the majority of young people in hospital (vaccinated or unvaccinated) are in poor health already.

So if vaccination value is really at hospital and mortality level then people who are high risk are the ones that maybe need to be seriously considering vaccination if they have not already.  They should also be making lifestyle changes because it is Covid today but these people are a ticking bomb and also are the greatest drain on our health services generally.  Not the young healthy unvaccinated. 

If we want a long term solution we need to focus resource on improving the health of the population.  Taxing sugar and subsidising healthy food would be a good start.  As it stands it is cheaper and more convenient for people to eat crap.

Otherwise we are just standing p!$$ing on a raging fire.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 20, 2021, 09:47:35 AM
The building industry is self regulated in the republic, no nsai audits or policing of products to meet minimum accept quality criteria. Therefore the tax payer will be liable for full redress of the re-build of thousands of homes in Donegal (affected by mica) to the tune of 3 billion euro plus.
Same applies to the Covid certs. Leo Varadkar expects me to ask a pub why they let me into their facility without producing a proof of Covid Vaccination Cert. Whats the point in asking for certs if the matter is not going to be policed by an independent body. The government in the republic have handled things poorly too. We always had a winter health crisis regarding hospitals & availability of ICU beds, the unvaccinated are the fall guys these days.

By the way whats the story in the North, do they ask for Covid Certs when dinning indoors?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on October 20, 2021, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 09:24:39 AM
Was listening to 5 live on the way into work, the vast majority of those with Covid in hospital are not vaccinated, that came from the head of the medical doctors federation, he also said that we will need to have the booster to help with this winter as people's immunes will be less due to the last time they had the second jab..

Now, I'd take the information from him over the crackpots on facebook in fairness, I know, call me crazy...

Who knows what's going to happen this winter, it won't be pretty that's for sure, but if several million of people in the UK haven't taken a vaccine how will it ever work?

Are we going down to the point of acceptable death, with hospitals over run with more 'acceptable' deaths from other issues because we have no staff to run it or beds to put people in?

The vaccine roll out really should have been what drove us back towards normality(it has been) but the number of people still not taking the vaccine is a pain, so selfish.

As crude as it sounds, we do have to have a number of acceptable deaths. Every other part of our life has an acceptable number of deaths. We have to live with Covid just like we live with many other diseases. We cannot go back to locking people down. Personally I'd like to see the government turn the screw more and make more things undoable without vaccine passport, there's people who can't take the vaccine we should be giving them a similar exemption pass but everyone else get the jab and get on with life
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on October 20, 2021, 09:57:11 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 09:45:56 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 09:24:39 AM
Was listening to 5 live on the way into work, the vast majority of those with Covid in hospital are not vaccinated, that came from the head of the medical doctors federation, he also said that we will need to have the booster to help with this winter as people's immunes will be less due to the last time they had the second jab..

Now, I'd take the information from him over the crackpots on facebook in fairness, I know, call me crazy...

Who knows what's going to happen this winter, it won't be pretty that's for sure, but if several million of people in the UK haven't taken a vaccine how will it ever work?

Are we going down to the point of acceptable death, with hospitals over run with more 'acceptable' deaths from other issues because we have no staff to run it or beds to put people in?

Vast majority?  Really?

Latest published official (not Facebook or some 5 live propaganda merchant) UK data week 34 to week 37:
Positive cases unvaccinated: 490 (out of a total of 12,164)
Hospitalisations unvaccinated: 179 (out of a total of 1,610)
Deaths unvaccinated: 198 (out of a total of 1,521)

What is clear is that the proportion unvaccinated grows from cases through hospitalisations and deaths.

But related to that and a serious question.  How many people here understand their own risk profile?  How many accept that this virus clearly does discriminate?

Because the majority of young people in hospital (vaccinated or unvaccinated) are in poor health already.

So if vaccination value is really at hospital and mortality level then people who are high risk are the ones that maybe need to be seriously considering vaccination if they have not already.  They should also be making lifestyle changes because it is Covid today but these people are a ticking bomb and also are the greatest drain on our health services generally.  Not the young healthy unvaccinated. 

If we want a long term solution we need to focus resource on improving the health of the population.  Taxing sugar and subsidising healthy food would be a good start.  As it stands it is cheaper and more convenient for people to eat crap.

Otherwise we are just standing p!$$ing on a raging fire.

Where have you got those figures? Surely cannot be correct.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:01:45 AM
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1019992/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_38.pdf
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on October 20, 2021, 10:13:32 AM
Quote from: Rudi on October 20, 2021, 09:47:35 AM
The building industry is self regulated in the republic, no nsai audits or policing of products to meet minimum accept quality criteria. Therefore the tax payer will be liable for full redress of the re-build of thousands of homes in Donegal (affected by mica) to the tune of 3 billion euro plus.
Same applies to the Covid certs. Leo Varadkar expects me to ask a pub why they let me into their facility without producing a proof of Covid Vaccination Cert. Whats the point in asking for certs if the matter is not going to be policed by an independent body. The government in the republic have handled things poorly too. We always had a winter health crisis regarding hospitals & availability of ICU beds, the unvaccinated are the fall guys these days.

By the way whats the story in the North, do they ask for Covid Certs when dinning indoors?
I was in Sligo at the weekend and it was a shock to the system covid wise, asked for vaccine certificate everywhere and just that feeling of strictness, the North is a joke, you might get asked for a name & phone number at a pub door from my experience.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on October 20, 2021, 10:23:12 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:01:45 AM
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1019992/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_38.pdf

At work so cannot look at this in depth but if you think that the data in this report is showing that symptoms, hospitalization and death rates are higher for vaccinated that non vaccinated you need remedial English and Maths. 

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 10:25:26 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 09:45:56 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 09:24:39 AM
Was listening to 5 live on the way into work, the vast majority of those with Covid in hospital are not vaccinated, that came from the head of the medical doctors federation, he also said that we will need to have the booster to help with this winter as people's immunes will be less due to the last time they had the second jab..

Now, I'd take the information from him over the crackpots on facebook in fairness, I know, call me crazy...

Who knows what's going to happen this winter, it won't be pretty that's for sure, but if several million of people in the UK haven't taken a vaccine how will it ever work?

Are we going down to the point of acceptable death, with hospitals over run with more 'acceptable' deaths from other issues because we have no staff to run it or beds to put people in?

Vast majority?  Really?

Latest published official (not Facebook or some 5 live propaganda merchant) UK data week 34 to week 37:
Positive cases unvaccinated: 490 (out of a total of 12,164)
Hospitalisations unvaccinated: 179 (out of a total of 1,610)
Deaths unvaccinated: 198 (out of a total of 1,521)

What is clear is that the proportion unvaccinated grows from cases through hospitalisations and deaths.

But related to that and a serious question.  How many people here understand their own risk profile?  How many accept that this virus clearly does discriminate?

Because the majority of young people in hospital (vaccinated or unvaccinated) are in poor health already.

So if vaccination value is really at hospital and mortality level then people who are high risk are the ones that maybe need to be seriously considering vaccination if they have not already.  They should also be making lifestyle changes because it is Covid today but these people are a ticking bomb and also are the greatest drain on our health services generally.  Not the young healthy unvaccinated. 

If we want a long term solution we need to focus resource on improving the health of the population.  Taxing sugar and subsidising healthy food would be a good start.  As it stands it is cheaper and more convenient for people to eat crap.

Otherwise we are just standing p!$$ing on a raging fire.

You see this is the problem - far too much misinformation being thrown about. You didn't read the table properly and the above only relates to people who are 80+ (and got vaccinated the longest time ago).

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 10:31:10 AM
The tables actually show that per 100,000 people the vaccinated rate of hospitalisation is 112.9 for vaccinated people v 420.8 for non vaccinated. In terms of deaths its 69.3 for vaccinated and 263.2 for non vaccinated. However, the over 80's are bumping up the vaccinated death numbers a lot - if you take them out its 19.8 vaccinated v 107.2 non vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:36:25 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 10:31:10 AM
The tables actually show that per 100,000 people the vaccinated rate of hospitalisation is 112.9 for vaccinated people v 420.8 for non vaccinated. In terms of deaths its 69.3 for vaccinated and 263.2 for non vaccinated. However, the over 80's are bumping up the vaccinated death numbers a lot - if you take them out its 19.8 vaccinated v 107.2 non vaccinated.


Yes that is true and why at younger people in at risk category should consider vaccination if not already done so.

Rates per 100,000 are a good comparable measure but the data does not mean hospitals are full of unvaccinated as 5 Live guy claimed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 10:40:53 AM
The tables show the vaccines are very effective (far from perfect) particularly in younger people. In the 30 to 50 age bracket for example you are 7 times more likely to die or end up in hospital with covid if you are unvaccinated per those numbers. I'm no expert but I'd imagine a lot of the older people in hospital with covid could well have ended up in there anyway for a variety of factors given their age. It's the younger unvaccinated covid people who are causing a problem by taking up much needed beds.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:42:41 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 10:25:26 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 09:45:56 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 09:24:39 AM
Was listening to 5 live on the way into work, the vast majority of those with Covid in hospital are not vaccinated, that came from the head of the medical doctors federation, he also said that we will need to have the booster to help with this winter as people's immunes will be less due to the last time they had the second jab..

Now, I'd take the information from him over the crackpots on facebook in fairness, I know, call me crazy...

Who knows what's going to happen this winter, it won't be pretty that's for sure, but if several million of people in the UK haven't taken a vaccine how will it ever work?

Are we going down to the point of acceptable death, with hospitals over run with more 'acceptable' deaths from other issues because we have no staff to run it or beds to put people in?

Vast majority?  Really?

Latest published official (not Facebook or some 5 live propaganda merchant) UK data week 34 to week 37:
Positive cases unvaccinated: 490 (out of a total of 12,164)
Hospitalisations unvaccinated: 179 (out of a total of 1,610)
Deaths unvaccinated: 198 (out of a total of 1,521)

What is clear is that the proportion unvaccinated grows from cases through hospitalisations and deaths.

But related to that and a serious question.  How many people here understand their own risk profile?  How many accept that this virus clearly does discriminate?

Because the majority of young people in hospital (vaccinated or unvaccinated) are in poor health already.

So if vaccination value is really at hospital and mortality level then people who are high risk are the ones that maybe need to be seriously considering vaccination if they have not already.  They should also be making lifestyle changes because it is Covid today but these people are a ticking bomb and also are the greatest drain on our health services generally.  Not the young healthy unvaccinated. 

If we want a long term solution we need to focus resource on improving the health of the population.  Taxing sugar and subsidising healthy food would be a good start.  As it stands it is cheaper and more convenient for people to eat crap.

Otherwise we are just standing p!$$ing on a raging fire.

You see this is the problem - far too much misinformation being thrown about. You didn't read the table properly and the above only relates to people who are 80+ (and got vaccinated the longest time ago).

My bad.  Will update when I get a chance.  I had previously analysed this data and quickly went back thinking I was lifting the totals.  Will update with correct figures when I get a chance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on October 20, 2021, 10:42:55 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:36:25 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 10:31:10 AM
The tables actually show that per 100,000 people the vaccinated rate of hospitalisation is 112.9 for vaccinated people v 420.8 for non vaccinated. In terms of deaths its 69.3 for vaccinated and 263.2 for non vaccinated. However, the over 80's are bumping up the vaccinated death numbers a lot - if you take them out its 19.8 vaccinated v 107.2 non vaccinated.


Yes that is true and why at younger people in at risk category should consider vaccination if not already done so.

Rates per 100,000 are a good comparable measure but the data does not mean hospitals are full of unvaccinated as 5 Live guy claimed.

Fella you have proved time and again that you haven't the faintest notion about the meaning of basic figures right in front of your face, but you keep on posting embarassingly mad, and completely false, interpretations of information which any reasonably intelligent child could disprove in a New York minute.  Have a wee bit of dignity and stop posting on this thread and making a fool of yourself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:56:56 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 20, 2021, 10:42:55 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:36:25 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 10:31:10 AM
The tables actually show that per 100,000 people the vaccinated rate of hospitalisation is 112.9 for vaccinated people v 420.8 for non vaccinated. In terms of deaths its 69.3 for vaccinated and 263.2 for non vaccinated. However, the over 80's are bumping up the vaccinated death numbers a lot - if you take them out its 19.8 vaccinated v 107.2 non vaccinated.


Yes that is true and why at younger people in at risk category should consider vaccination if not already done so.

Rates per 100,000 are a good comparable measure but the data does not mean hospitals are full of unvaccinated as 5 Live guy claimed.

Fella you have proved time and again that you haven't the faintest notion about the meaning of basic figures right in front of your face, but you keep on posting embarassingly mad, and completely false, interpretations of information which any reasonably intelligent child could disprove in a New York minute.  Have a wee bit of dignity and stop posting on this thread and making a fool of yourself.

Whatever you think.  I hold my hands up, I pulled the incorrect figures from the table in a rush but only because I knew the official data proves it is false to say majority in hospitals were unvaccinated based on this official data.

Hospitalisations (all age groups) UK week 34 to week 37:
Unvaccinated = 3,220 out of 8,255
Or 39%
39% is not a majority, even by my bad math.

I might have no clue but those are the facts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on October 20, 2021, 11:07:11 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:56:56 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 20, 2021, 10:42:55 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:36:25 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 10:31:10 AM
The tables actually show that per 100,000 people the vaccinated rate of hospitalisation is 112.9 for vaccinated people v 420.8 for non vaccinated. In terms of deaths its 69.3 for vaccinated and 263.2 for non vaccinated. However, the over 80's are bumping up the vaccinated death numbers a lot - if you take them out its 19.8 vaccinated v 107.2 non vaccinated.


Yes that is true and why at younger people in at risk category should consider vaccination if not already done so.

Rates per 100,000 are a good comparable measure but the data does not mean hospitals are full of unvaccinated as 5 Live guy claimed.

Fella you have proved time and again that you haven't the faintest notion about the meaning of basic figures right in front of your face, but you keep on posting embarassingly mad, and completely false, interpretations of information which any reasonably intelligent child could disprove in a New York minute.  Have a wee bit of dignity and stop posting on this thread and making a fool of yourself.

Whatever you think.  I hold my hands up, I pulled the incorrect figures from the table in a rush but only because I knew the official data proves it is false to say majority in hospitals were unvaccinated based on this official data.

Hospitalisations (all age groups) UK week 34 to week 37:
Unvaccinated = 3,220 out of 8,255
Or 39%
39% is not a majority, even by my bad math.

I might have no clue but those are the facts.

lets use your figures, given that over 80% of the population is vaccinated, including 99% of our vulnerable who are going to be more prone to being hospitalised, 39% of hospital admissions is coming from only 20% of the population, of that 20% its accepted that these are people who felt they didnt need the vaccine due to their demographic of being young fit etc. so would you not say the numbers yo have quoted actually are a massive red flag and should encourage vaccination?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 11:07:57 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 20, 2021, 10:42:55 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:36:25 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 10:31:10 AM
The tables actually show that per 100,000 people the vaccinated rate of hospitalisation is 112.9 for vaccinated people v 420.8 for non vaccinated. In terms of deaths its 69.3 for vaccinated and 263.2 for non vaccinated. However, the over 80's are bumping up the vaccinated death numbers a lot - if you take them out its 19.8 vaccinated v 107.2 non vaccinated.


Yes that is true and why at younger people in at risk category should consider vaccination if not already done so.

Rates per 100,000 are a good comparable measure but the data does not mean hospitals are full of unvaccinated as 5 Live guy claimed.

Fella you have proved time and again that you haven't the faintest notion about the meaning of basic figures right in front of your face, but you keep on posting embarassingly mad, and completely false, interpretations of information which any reasonably intelligent child could disprove in a New York minute.  Have a wee bit of dignity and stop posting on this thread and making a fool of yourself.

And of course given your superior intellect you will have picked up case rates per 100,000 for those over 30 are significantly higher among the vaccinated.

Just another fact.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 11:13:42 AM
I've no way of proving it but I'd imagine a lot of people over 60 who are in hospital with covid could well have ended up there anyway given the age profile. If you look at the under 60's, 2,411 out of 3,840 in hospital are unvaccinated (63%).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 11:18:45 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on October 20, 2021, 11:07:11 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:56:56 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 20, 2021, 10:42:55 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:36:25 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 10:31:10 AM
The tables actually show that per 100,000 people the vaccinated rate of hospitalisation is 112.9 for vaccinated people v 420.8 for non vaccinated. In terms of deaths its 69.3 for vaccinated and 263.2 for non vaccinated. However, the over 80's are bumping up the vaccinated death numbers a lot - if you take them out its 19.8 vaccinated v 107.2 non vaccinated.


Yes that is true and why at younger people in at risk category should consider vaccination if not already done so.

Rates per 100,000 are a good comparable measure but the data does not mean hospitals are full of unvaccinated as 5 Live guy claimed.

Fella you have proved time and again that you haven't the faintest notion about the meaning of basic figures right in front of your face, but you keep on posting embarassingly mad, and completely false, interpretations of information which any reasonably intelligent child could disprove in a New York minute.  Have a wee bit of dignity and stop posting on this thread and making a fool of yourself.

Whatever you think.  I hold my hands up, I pulled the incorrect figures from the table in a rush but only because I knew the official data proves it is false to say majority in hospitals were unvaccinated based on this official data.

Hospitalisations (all age groups) UK week 34 to week 37:
Unvaccinated = 3,220 out of 8,255
Or 39%
39% is not a majority, even by my bad math.

I might have no clue but those are the facts.

lets use your figures, given that over 80% of the population is vaccinated, including 99% of our vulnerable who are going to be more prone to being hospitalised, 39% of hospital admissions is coming from only 20% of the population, of that 20% its accepted that these are people who felt they didnt need the vaccine due to their demographic of being young fit etc. so would you not say the numbers yo have quoted actually are a massive red flag and should encourage vaccination?

Have you read my previous posts?

I am not even challenging that vaccine appears effective for reducing hospitalisation and deaths.  In fact I have posted that benefit a few times.

So yes of course there appears to be people winding up in hospital and some sadly dying where vaccination could have been the difference.

I am advocating that people are educated on their level of risk.  As it is we have a cohort who are not getting vaccinated and that is that because they think that being young is the end of the story.

The reality is that the majority of the young will not need vaccination but among them are people of high risk.

These, in the main, are the younger people ending up in hospital and dying.

So why do we not focus more on risk profile to encourage those at risk towards vaccination as opposed to the big stick approach that just leads people to dig in even more.

Of course that appears to make me an anti-vaxxer, conspiracy theorists and whatever other type of comfort blanket character the hysteria merchants have created in their heads.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 11:19:37 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 11:13:42 AM
I've no way of proving it but I'd imagine a lot of people over 60 who are in hospital with covid could well have ended up there anyway given the age profile. If you look at the under 60's, 2,411 out of 3,840 in hospital are unvaccinated (63%).

Again not disputing but still false to say vast majority in hospital are unvaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 11:39:13 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 11:19:37 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 11:13:42 AM
I've no way of proving it but I'd imagine a lot of people over 60 who are in hospital with covid could well have ended up there anyway given the age profile. If you look at the under 60's, 2,411 out of 3,840 in hospital are unvaccinated (63%).

Again not disputing but still false to say vast majority in hospital are unvaccinated.

The person that said it would have better knowledge than you , he also said that we are at the end of the first vaccine's best use, as in the effects of that are starting to diminish, thus the requirement of the booster is important, along with protection against the flu the flu jab has been rolled out pretty quick round my way
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 20, 2021, 11:42:10 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on October 20, 2021, 10:13:32 AM
Quote from: Rudi on October 20, 2021, 09:47:35 AM
The building industry is self regulated in the republic, no nsai audits or policing of products to meet minimum accept quality criteria. Therefore the tax payer will be liable for full redress of the re-build of thousands of homes in Donegal (affected by mica) to the tune of 3 billion euro plus.
Same applies to the Covid certs. Leo Varadkar expects me to ask a pub why they let me into their facility without producing a proof of Covid Vaccination Cert. Whats the point in asking for certs if the matter is not going to be policed by an independent body. The government in the republic have handled things poorly too. We always had a winter health crisis regarding hospitals & availability of ICU beds, the unvaccinated are the fall guys these days.

By the way whats the story in the North, do they ask for Covid Certs when dinning indoors?
I was in Sligo at the weekend and it was a shock to the system covid wise, asked for vaccine certificate everywhere and just that feeling of strictness, the North is a joke, you might get asked for a name & phone number at a pub door from my experience.

The covid pass is nonsense.

You could have 100 people in a pub, and they'll all be let in with their passes, no questions asked. Any number of them could have covid. Now, you might say the vaccine reduces transmission/severity, but that's still potentially 100 people coming out of that pub with the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 20, 2021, 11:45:57 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on October 20, 2021, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 09:24:39 AM
Was listening to 5 live on the way into work, the vast majority of those with Covid in hospital are not vaccinated, that came from the head of the medical doctors federation, he also said that we will need to have the booster to help with this winter as people's immunes will be less due to the last time they had the second jab..

Now, I'd take the information from him over the crackpots on facebook in fairness, I know, call me crazy...

Who knows what's going to happen this winter, it won't be pretty that's for sure, but if several million of people in the UK haven't taken a vaccine how will it ever work?

Are we going down to the point of acceptable death, with hospitals over run with more 'acceptable' deaths from other issues because we have no staff to run it or beds to put people in?

The vaccine roll out really should have been what drove us back towards normality(it has been) but the number of people still not taking the vaccine is a pain, so selfish.

As crude as it sounds, we do have to have a number of acceptable deaths. Every other part of our life has an acceptable number of deaths. We have to live with Covid just like we live with many other diseases. We cannot go back to locking people down. Personally I'd like to see the government turn the screw more and make more things undoable without vaccine passport, there's people who can't take the vaccine we should be giving them a similar exemption pass but everyone else get the jab and get on with life

Pointing the finger at the unvaccinated is a deliberate distraction from the fact that the vaccine clearly isn't working, and isn't stopping the rise in infection rates.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 11:46:54 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 11:39:13 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 11:19:37 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 11:13:42 AM
I've no way of proving it but I'd imagine a lot of people over 60 who are in hospital with covid could well have ended up there anyway given the age profile. If you look at the under 60's, 2,411 out of 3,840 in hospital are unvaccinated (63%).

Again not disputing but still false to say vast majority in hospital are unvaccinated.

The person that said it would have better knowledge than you , he also said that we are at the end of the first vaccine's best use, as in the effects of that are starting to diminish, thus the requirement of the booster is important, along with protection against the flu the flu jab has been rolled out pretty quick round my way

Lol. Ok.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 11:48:25 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 20, 2021, 11:42:10 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on October 20, 2021, 10:13:32 AM
Quote from: Rudi on October 20, 2021, 09:47:35 AM
The building industry is self regulated in the republic, no nsai audits or policing of products to meet minimum accept quality criteria. Therefore the tax payer will be liable for full redress of the re-build of thousands of homes in Donegal (affected by mica) to the tune of 3 billion euro plus.
Same applies to the Covid certs. Leo Varadkar expects me to ask a pub why they let me into their facility without producing a proof of Covid Vaccination Cert. Whats the point in asking for certs if the matter is not going to be policed by an independent body. The government in the republic have handled things poorly too. We always had a winter health crisis regarding hospitals & availability of ICU beds, the unvaccinated are the fall guys these days.

By the way whats the story in the North, do they ask for Covid Certs when dinning indoors?
I was in Sligo at the weekend and it was a shock to the system covid wise, asked for vaccine certificate everywhere and just that feeling of strictness, the North is a joke, you might get asked for a name & phone number at a pub door from my experience.

The covid pass is nonsense.

You could have 100 people in a pub, and they'll all be let in with their passes, no questions asked. Any number of them could have covid. Now, you might say the vaccine reduces transmission/severity, but that's still potentially 100 people coming out of that pub with the virus.

Correct Benny.

And they could then come into a high risk contraindication and infect them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on October 20, 2021, 11:51:36 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 20, 2021, 11:45:57 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on October 20, 2021, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 09:24:39 AM
Was listening to 5 live on the way into work, the vast majority of those with Covid in hospital are not vaccinated, that came from the head of the medical doctors federation, he also said that we will need to have the booster to help with this winter as people's immunes will be less due to the last time they had the second jab..

Now, I'd take the information from him over the crackpots on facebook in fairness, I know, call me crazy...

Who knows what's going to happen this winter, it won't be pretty that's for sure, but if several million of people in the UK haven't taken a vaccine how will it ever work?

Are we going down to the point of acceptable death, with hospitals over run with more 'acceptable' deaths from other issues because we have no staff to run it or beds to put people in?

The vaccine roll out really should have been what drove us back towards normality(it has been) but the number of people still not taking the vaccine is a pain, so selfish.

As crude as it sounds, we do have to have a number of acceptable deaths. Every other part of our life has an acceptable number of deaths. We have to live with Covid just like we live with many other diseases. We cannot go back to locking people down. Personally I'd like to see the government turn the screw more and make more things undoable without vaccine passport, there's people who can't take the vaccine we should be giving them a similar exemption pass but everyone else get the jab and get on with life

Pointing the finger at the unvaccinated is a deliberate distraction from the fact that the vaccine clearly isn't working, and isn't stopping the rise in infection rates.

How can you say the vaccine clearly isn't working? It isn't about stopping the rise in infections, it's about cutting it down and if you do catch Covid that the effects aren't as severe, the vaccine most certainly is doing them things.  By getting vaccinated it reduces your chances of ending up in hospital, it's not going to completely stop you getting ill but will make it less severe.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 11:53:35 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 20, 2021, 11:45:57 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on October 20, 2021, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 09:24:39 AM
Was listening to 5 live on the way into work, the vast majority of those with Covid in hospital are not vaccinated, that came from the head of the medical doctors federation, he also said that we will need to have the booster to help with this winter as people's immunes will be less due to the last time they had the second jab..

Now, I'd take the information from him over the crackpots on facebook in fairness, I know, call me crazy...

Who knows what's going to happen this winter, it won't be pretty that's for sure, but if several million of people in the UK haven't taken a vaccine how will it ever work?

Are we going down to the point of acceptable death, with hospitals over run with more 'acceptable' deaths from other issues because we have no staff to run it or beds to put people in?

The vaccine roll out really should have been what drove us back towards normality(it has been) but the number of people still not taking the vaccine is a pain, so selfish.

As crude as it sounds, we do have to have a number of acceptable deaths. Every other part of our life has an acceptable number of deaths. We have to live with Covid just like we live with many other diseases. We cannot go back to locking people down. Personally I'd like to see the government turn the screw more and make more things undoable without vaccine passport, there's people who can't take the vaccine we should be giving them a similar exemption pass but everyone else get the jab and get on with life

Pointing the finger at the unvaccinated is a deliberate distraction from the fact that the vaccine clearly isn't working, and isn't stopping the rise in infection rates.

Again correct.

And I would go further and suggest that it also shows the failure to properly inform people of their risk.

And in my opinion a big part of the reason risk profile has not been properly addressed is because they wanted everyone to feel at risk to try and control spread.  With this opinion I do not doubt that it was well meant but the problem with it now is that people have got their own ideas of risk profile.  And that is in the main age whereas in reality age is a major factor but so is level of health and in particular level of obesity.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 20, 2021, 11:55:05 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 20, 2021, 11:45:57 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on October 20, 2021, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 09:24:39 AM
Was listening to 5 live on the way into work, the vast majority of those with Covid in hospital are not vaccinated, that came from the head of the medical doctors federation, he also said that we will need to have the booster to help with this winter as people's immunes will be less due to the last time they had the second jab..

Now, I'd take the information from him over the crackpots on facebook in fairness, I know, call me crazy...

Who knows what's going to happen this winter, it won't be pretty that's for sure, but if several million of people in the UK haven't taken a vaccine how will it ever work?

Are we going down to the point of acceptable death, with hospitals over run with more 'acceptable' deaths from other issues because we have no staff to run it or beds to put people in?

The vaccine roll out really should have been what drove us back towards normality(it has been) but the number of people still not taking the vaccine is a pain, so selfish.

As crude as it sounds, we do have to have a number of acceptable deaths. Every other part of our life has an acceptable number of deaths. We have to live with Covid just like we live with many other diseases. We cannot go back to locking people down. Personally I'd like to see the government turn the screw more and make more things undoable without vaccine passport, there's people who can't take the vaccine we should be giving them a similar exemption pass but everyone else get the jab and get on with life

Pointing the finger at the unvaccinated is a deliberate distraction from the fact that the vaccine clearly isn't working, and isn't stopping the rise in infection rates.

What would you see as success for the vaccine? Is eradication the only thing that would be a success for you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on October 20, 2021, 11:56:08 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 20, 2021, 11:42:10 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on October 20, 2021, 10:13:32 AM
Quote from: Rudi on October 20, 2021, 09:47:35 AM
The building industry is self regulated in the republic, no nsai audits or policing of products to meet minimum accept quality criteria. Therefore the tax payer will be liable for full redress of the re-build of thousands of homes in Donegal (affected by mica) to the tune of 3 billion euro plus.
Same applies to the Covid certs. Leo Varadkar expects me to ask a pub why they let me into their facility without producing a proof of Covid Vaccination Cert. Whats the point in asking for certs if the matter is not going to be policed by an independent body. The government in the republic have handled things poorly too. We always had a winter health crisis regarding hospitals & availability of ICU beds, the unvaccinated are the fall guys these days.

By the way whats the story in the North, do they ask for Covid Certs when dinning indoors?
I was in Sligo at the weekend and it was a shock to the system covid wise, asked for vaccine certificate everywhere and just that feeling of strictness, the North is a joke, you might get asked for a name & phone number at a pub door from my experience.

The covid pass is nonsense.

You could have 100 people in a pub, and they'll all be let in with their passes, no questions asked. Any number of them could have covid. Now, you might say the vaccine reduces transmission/severity, but that's still potentially 100 people coming out of that pub with the virus.

This is what you dealing with.

The 100 people have the protection in place. If someone comes in without the vaccine and makes it 101 people in there it is them that is at high risk in a confined space where it likes to transmit if they then catch it they are at greater risk of illness that will require hospitalisation.

The pass is to protect them and protect the health service, even if they can't be arsed protecting themselves.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on October 20, 2021, 11:58:43 AM
Some people just don't get it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 12:01:02 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 11:46:54 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 11:39:13 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 11:19:37 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 11:13:42 AM
I've no way of proving it but I'd imagine a lot of people over 60 who are in hospital with covid could well have ended up there anyway given the age profile. If you look at the under 60's, 2,411 out of 3,840 in hospital are unvaccinated (63%).

Again not disputing but still false to say vast majority in hospital are unvaccinated.

The person that said it would have better knowledge than you , he also said that we are at the end of the first vaccine's best use, as in the effects of that are starting to diminish, thus the requirement of the booster is important, along with protection against the flu the flu jab has been rolled out pretty quick round my way

Lol. Ok.

Sure throw up those stats you keep getting wrong, they are great lol moments
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2021, 12:03:19 PM
Romania

Population 19.29 million
Vaccinated: 29.5%

Covid cases yesterday: 18,863
Covid deaths yesterday: 561 (five hundred and sixty-one)

Get vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 20, 2021, 12:05:37 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on October 20, 2021, 11:58:43 AM
Some people just don't get it

Maybe it's a case that the 'some' do get it, the vast majority of the rest of us need to wake up, stay away from the poison, discard the face masks and let her rip
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 12:13:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 12:01:02 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 11:46:54 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 11:39:13 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 11:19:37 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 11:13:42 AM
I've no way of proving it but I'd imagine a lot of people over 60 who are in hospital with covid could well have ended up there anyway given the age profile. If you look at the under 60's, 2,411 out of 3,840 in hospital are unvaccinated (63%).

Again not disputing but still false to say vast majority in hospital are unvaccinated.

The person that said it would have better knowledge than you , he also said that we are at the end of the first vaccine's best use, as in the effects of that are starting to diminish, thus the requirement of the booster is important, along with protection against the flu the flu jab has been rolled out pretty quick round my way

Lol. Ok.

Sure throw up those stats you keep getting wrong, they are great lol moments

Yes the initial figures were incorrect and have been updated.

But are we conveniently forgetting that the sentiment of the post was correct as the updated figures show.

That is your statement about 'vast majority' of hospitalisations being unvaccinated is at odds with official government data.

At least I can correct my data error and still arrive at the same conclusion.

But sure you stick to the guy on the radio who knows more than me but is at odds with official government data 👍
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 12:47:15 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 12:13:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 12:01:02 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 11:46:54 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 11:39:13 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 11:19:37 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 11:13:42 AM
I've no way of proving it but I'd imagine a lot of people over 60 who are in hospital with covid could well have ended up there anyway given the age profile. If you look at the under 60's, 2,411 out of 3,840 in hospital are unvaccinated (63%).

Again not disputing but still false to say vast majority in hospital are unvaccinated.

The person that said it would have better knowledge than you , he also said that we are at the end of the first vaccine's best use, as in the effects of that are starting to diminish, thus the requirement of the booster is important, along with protection against the flu the flu jab has been rolled out pretty quick round my way

Lol. Ok.

Sure throw up those stats you keep getting wrong, they are great lol moments

Yes the initial figures were incorrect and have been updated.

But are we conveniently forgetting that the sentiment of the post was correct as the updated figures show.

That is your statement about 'vast majority' of hospitalisations being unvaccinated is at odds with official government data.

At least I can correct my data error and still arrive at the same conclusion.

But sure you stick to the guy on the radio who knows more than me but is at odds with official government data 👍

Maybe you didn't read  the bit (again not surprising) that the guy on the radio was the head of the medical federation UK. That's a government body I'm sure.. That statement was not mine either, you are not reading things again, go have a lie down and rest your head
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 02:16:19 PM
What he said (what you claim he said) is widely at odds with the most recently available official government data.

Of course there is a lag in data getting published so subsequent publications might show the vast majority are indeed unvaccinated but we can wait for that and revisit in a few weeks.  It will take a hell of a shift all the same.

Did you catch a name by the way?  I am not finding much by way of reference to 'the Medical Federation UK' let alone who it's head is.

Or even what time he was on as I am genuinely interested to hear what he said so can grab off the catch up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 02:31:22 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 02:16:19 PM
What he said (what you claim he said) is widely at odds with the most recently available official government data.

Of course there is a lag in data getting published so subsequent publications might show the vast majority are indeed unvaccinated but we can wait for that and revisit in a few weeks.  It will take a hell of a shift all the same.

Did you catch a name by the way?  I am not finding much by way of reference to 'the Medical Federation UK' let alone who it's head is.

Or even what time he was on as I am genuinely interested to hear what he said so can grab off the catch up.

Taylor, I think and was on radio 5 live at about 8.45am today, I'm sure that is on catch up, just after he finished someone came on and told the BBC to be fairer in their news covering and stop going along the government line sort of thing...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2021, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 02:16:19 PM
What he said (what you claim he said) is widely at odds with the most recently available official government data.

Of course there is a lag in data getting published so subsequent publications might show the vast majority are indeed unvaccinated but we can wait for that and revisit in a few weeks.  It will take a hell of a shift all the same.

Did you catch a name by the way?  I am not finding much by way of reference to 'the Medical Federation UK' let alone who it's head is.

Or even what time he was on as I am genuinely interested to hear what he said so can grab off the catch up.
Any chance you could explain what's happening in Romania, buddy? Here are their figures for you again.

Population 19.29 million
Vaccinated: 29.5%

Covid cases yesterday: 18,863
Covid deaths yesterday: 561 (five hundred and sixty-one)

Would you agree that these figures, when compared against the currently miniscule death figures in widely vaccinated countries like Ireland are a very clear demonstration of the benefits of vaccines and the dangers of widespread non-vaccination?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 02:36:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 02:31:22 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 02:16:19 PM
What he said (what you claim he said) is widely at odds with the most recently available official government data.

Of course there is a lag in data getting published so subsequent publications might show the vast majority are indeed unvaccinated but we can wait for that and revisit in a few weeks.  It will take a hell of a shift all the same.

Did you catch a name by the way?  I am not finding much by way of reference to 'the Medical Federation UK' let alone who it's head is.

Or even what time he was on as I am genuinely interested to hear what he said so can grab off the catch up.

Taylor, I think and was on radio 5 live at about 8.45am today, I'm sure that is on catch up, just after he finished someone came on and told the BBC to be fairer in their news covering and stop going along the government line sort of thing...

Thanks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 02:38:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2021, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 02:16:19 PM
What he said (what you claim he said) is widely at odds with the most recently available official government data.

Of course there is a lag in data getting published so subsequent publications might show the vast majority are indeed unvaccinated but we can wait for that and revisit in a few weeks.  It will take a hell of a shift all the same.

Did you catch a name by the way?  I am not finding much by way of reference to 'the Medical Federation UK' let alone who it's head is.

Or even what time he was on as I am genuinely interested to hear what he said so can grab off the catch up.
Any chance you could explain what's happening in Romania, buddy? Here are their figures for you again.

Population 19.29 million
Vaccinated: 29.5%

Covid cases yesterday: 18,863
Covid deaths yesterday: 561 (five hundred and sixty-one)

Would you agree that these figures, when compared against the currently miniscule death figures in widely vaccinated countries like Ireland are a very clear demonstration of the benefits of vaccines and the dangers of widespread non-vaccination?

Sid I think you are mistaking me for someone who is anti vaccination.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 03:47:28 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 02:36:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 02:31:22 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 02:16:19 PM
What he said (what you claim he said) is widely at odds with the most recently available official government data.

Of course there is a lag in data getting published so subsequent publications might show the vast majority are indeed unvaccinated but we can wait for that and revisit in a few weeks.  It will take a hell of a shift all the same.

Did you catch a name by the way?  I am not finding much by way of reference to 'the Medical Federation UK' let alone who it's head is.

Or even what time he was on as I am genuinely interested to hear what he said so can grab off the catch up.

Taylor, I think and was on radio 5 live at about 8.45am today, I'm sure that is on catch up, just after he finished someone came on and told the BBC to be fairer in their news covering and stop going along the government line sort of thing...

Thanks.

Would you mind going back and listening to 5 Live and perhaps revising what you posted?  Both in terms of who was talking and what was said.

On the positive sounds like you were concentrating on the road more than the radio.

Safety first 😜
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2021, 03:57:07 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 02:38:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2021, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 02:16:19 PM
What he said (what you claim he said) is widely at odds with the most recently available official government data.

Of course there is a lag in data getting published so subsequent publications might show the vast majority are indeed unvaccinated but we can wait for that and revisit in a few weeks.  It will take a hell of a shift all the same.

Did you catch a name by the way?  I am not finding much by way of reference to 'the Medical Federation UK' let alone who it's head is.

Or even what time he was on as I am genuinely interested to hear what he said so can grab off the catch up.
Any chance you could explain what's happening in Romania, buddy? Here are their figures for you again.

Population 19.29 million
Vaccinated: 29.5%

Covid cases yesterday: 18,863
Covid deaths yesterday: 561 (five hundred and sixty-one)

Would you agree that these figures, when compared against the currently miniscule death figures in widely vaccinated countries like Ireland are a very clear demonstration of the benefits of vaccines and the dangers of widespread non-vaccination?

Sid I think you are mistaking me for someone who is anti vaccination.
Yis all say that.

Any chance you might explain the figures?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2021, 04:11:53 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 11:48:25 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 20, 2021, 11:42:10 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on October 20, 2021, 10:13:32 AM
Quote from: Rudi on October 20, 2021, 09:47:35 AM
The building industry is self regulated in the republic, no nsai audits or policing of products to meet minimum accept quality criteria. Therefore the tax payer will be liable for full redress of the re-build of thousands of homes in Donegal (affected by mica) to the tune of 3 billion euro plus.
Same applies to the Covid certs. Leo Varadkar expects me to ask a pub why they let me into their facility without producing a proof of Covid Vaccination Cert. Whats the point in asking for certs if the matter is not going to be policed by an independent body. The government in the republic have handled things poorly too. We always had a winter health crisis regarding hospitals & availability of ICU beds, the unvaccinated are the fall guys these days.

By the way whats the story in the North, do they ask for Covid Certs when dinning indoors?
I was in Sligo at the weekend and it was a shock to the system covid wise, asked for vaccine certificate everywhere and just that feeling of strictness, the North is a joke, you might get asked for a name & phone number at a pub door from my experience.

The covid pass is nonsense.

You could have 100 people in a pub, and they'll all be let in with their passes, no questions asked. Any number of them could have covid. Now, you might say the vaccine reduces transmission/severity, but that's still potentially 100 people coming out of that pub with the virus.

Correct Benny.

And they could then come into a high risk contraindication and infect them.
But as noted in the reports the likely hood of those people needing medical intervention is less than if it was 100 unvaccinated in the pub. That is why people are pushing the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 04:15:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2021, 03:57:07 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 02:38:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2021, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 02:16:19 PM
What he said (what you claim he said) is widely at odds with the most recently available official government data.

Of course there is a lag in data getting published so subsequent publications might show the vast majority are indeed unvaccinated but we can wait for that and revisit in a few weeks.  It will take a hell of a shift all the same.

Did you catch a name by the way?  I am not finding much by way of reference to 'the Medical Federation UK' let alone who it's head is.

Or even what time he was on as I am genuinely interested to hear what he said so can grab off the catch up.
Any chance you could explain what's happening in Romania, buddy? Here are their figures for you again.

Population 19.29 million
Vaccinated: 29.5%

Covid cases yesterday: 18,863
Covid deaths yesterday: 561 (five hundred and sixty-one)

Would you agree that these figures, when compared against the currently miniscule death figures in widely vaccinated countries like Ireland are a very clear demonstration of the benefits of vaccines and the dangers of widespread non-vaccination?

Sid I think you are mistaking me for someone who is anti vaccination.
Yis all say that.

Any chance you might explain the figures?

Any chance you would stop trying to shape everything around your world view?

Explanation is maybe quite simple i.e. fewer at risk vaccinated.

But could really do with some more info before drawing inferences.

Mortality by vaccination status and age group a good start.

Certainly does nothing to substantiate calls by sickos to vaccinate children and healthy young adults to protect them or pacify their fears.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 04:16:36 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2021, 04:11:53 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 11:48:25 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 20, 2021, 11:42:10 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on October 20, 2021, 10:13:32 AM
Quote from: Rudi on October 20, 2021, 09:47:35 AM
The building industry is self regulated in the republic, no nsai audits or policing of products to meet minimum accept quality criteria. Therefore the tax payer will be liable for full redress of the re-build of thousands of homes in Donegal (affected by mica) to the tune of 3 billion euro plus.
Same applies to the Covid certs. Leo Varadkar expects me to ask a pub why they let me into their facility without producing a proof of Covid Vaccination Cert. Whats the point in asking for certs if the matter is not going to be policed by an independent body. The government in the republic have handled things poorly too. We always had a winter health crisis regarding hospitals & availability of ICU beds, the unvaccinated are the fall guys these days.

By the way whats the story in the North, do they ask for Covid Certs when dinning indoors?
I was in Sligo at the weekend and it was a shock to the system covid wise, asked for vaccine certificate everywhere and just that feeling of strictness, the North is a joke, you might get asked for a name & phone number at a pub door from my experience.

The covid pass is nonsense.

You could have 100 people in a pub, and they'll all be let in with their passes, no questions asked. Any number of them could have covid. Now, you might say the vaccine reduces transmission/severity, but that's still potentially 100 people coming out of that pub with the virus.

Correct Benny.

And they could then come into a high risk contraindication and infect them.
But as noted in the reports the likely hood of those people needing medical intervention is less than if it was 100 unvaccinated in the pub. That is why people are pushing the vaccine.

But would be really selfish towards any contraindications out there.  And nobody likes selfish.  Isn't that right.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2021, 05:12:15 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 04:16:36 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2021, 04:11:53 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 11:48:25 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 20, 2021, 11:42:10 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on October 20, 2021, 10:13:32 AM
Quote from: Rudi on October 20, 2021, 09:47:35 AM
The building industry is self regulated in the republic, no nsai audits or policing of products to meet minimum accept quality criteria. Therefore the tax payer will be liable for full redress of the re-build of thousands of homes in Donegal (affected by mica) to the tune of 3 billion euro plus.
Same applies to the Covid certs. Leo Varadkar expects me to ask a pub why they let me into their facility without producing a proof of Covid Vaccination Cert. Whats the point in asking for certs if the matter is not going to be policed by an independent body. The government in the republic have handled things poorly too. We always had a winter health crisis regarding hospitals & availability of ICU beds, the unvaccinated are the fall guys these days.

By the way whats the story in the North, do they ask for Covid Certs when dinning indoors?
I was in Sligo at the weekend and it was a shock to the system covid wise, asked for vaccine certificate everywhere and just that feeling of strictness, the North is a joke, you might get asked for a name & phone number at a pub door from my experience.

The covid pass is nonsense.

You could have 100 people in a pub, and they'll all be let in with their passes, no questions asked. Any number of them could have covid. Now, you might say the vaccine reduces transmission/severity, but that's still potentially 100 people coming out of that pub with the virus.

Correct Benny.

And they could then come into a high risk contraindication and infect them.
But as noted in the reports the likely hood of those people needing medical intervention is less than if it was 100 unvaccinated in the pub. That is why people are pushing the vaccine.

But would be really selfish towards any contraindications out there.  And nobody likes selfish.  Isn't that right.
If people without contraindications all took the vaccine, the NHS would be able to cope better with the people that do have contraindications and have no alternative. So no, we don't like selfish.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 05:39:33 PM
Of course you are not selfish because the definition of selfish is now limited to people who do not choose to be vaccinated.

Housing crisis.  No the 80% of the population who are not selfish can do nothing about that because the definition does not stretch beyond vaccination.

#virtuesignallingtwats
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on October 20, 2021, 05:46:18 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 04:15:30 PM
Any chance you would stop trying to shape everything around your world view?

Explanation is maybe quite simple i.e. fewer at risk vaccinated.

But could really do with some more info before drawing inferences.

Mortality by vaccination status and age group a good start.

Certainly does nothing to substantiate calls by sickos to vaccinate children and healthy young adults to protect them or pacify their fears.

Get a grip
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 05:47:49 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 03:47:28 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 02:36:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 02:31:22 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 02:16:19 PM
What he said (what you claim he said) is widely at odds with the most recently available official government data.

Of course there is a lag in data getting published so subsequent publications might show the vast majority are indeed unvaccinated but we can wait for that and revisit in a few weeks.  It will take a hell of a shift all the same.

Did you catch a name by the way?  I am not finding much by way of reference to 'the Medical Federation UK' let alone who it's head is.

Or even what time he was on as I am genuinely interested to hear what he said so can grab off the catch up.

Taylor, I think and was on radio 5 live at about 8.45am today, I'm sure that is on catch up, just after he finished someone came on and told the BBC to be fairer in their news covering and stop going along the government line sort of thing...

Thanks.

Would you mind going back and listening to 5 Live and perhaps revising what you posted?  Both in terms of who was talking and what was said.

On the positive sounds like you were concentrating on the road more than the radio.

Safety first 😜

Going to help you out.  The Taylor in the mix was Matthew Taylor the chief of the NHS Confederation.  But his input was of impending crisis if direction of travel of cases continued as is.  But no mention of vaccination status and hospitalisation.

Hospitals being full of unvaccinated was mentioned.  This was the input of the caller Andrew from Yeovil. And even at that he was quoting someone on another radio station.

Honestly.

Given what was said this morning and I would almost be expecting an apology but don't worry I don't expect that from any of you bed wetters.

So just leave it with the knowledge I am having a chuckle.

And genuinely happy you were clearly more focused on the road.

Easy done.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 05:51:25 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on October 20, 2021, 05:46:18 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 04:15:30 PM
Any chance you would stop trying to shape everything around your world view?

Explanation is maybe quite simple i.e. fewer at risk vaccinated.

But could really do with some more info before drawing inferences.

Mortality by vaccination status and age group a good start.

Certainly does nothing to substantiate calls by sickos to vaccinate children and healthy young adults to protect them or pacify their fears.

Get a grip

It is sick.

We were blessed that this virus does not have any great impact on children.

What have we done with that blessing?

Smashed their education, their social development, their levels of fitness, their mental health etc.

And now we have a band of massive weirdos wanting to vaccinate them to mainly protect the old and frail, those unlucky with health and those who have not looked after themselves.

Sorry but I make absolutely no apologies for use of the word sickos.

Totally counter intuitive to human nature.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 20, 2021, 05:57:52 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 05:51:25 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on October 20, 2021, 05:46:18 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 04:15:30 PM
Any chance you would stop trying to shape everything around your world view?

Explanation is maybe quite simple i.e. fewer at risk vaccinated.

But could really do with some more info before drawing inferences.

Mortality by vaccination status and age group a good start.

Certainly does nothing to substantiate calls by sickos to vaccinate children and healthy young adults to protect them or pacify their fears.

Get a grip

It is sick.

We were blessed that this virus does not have any great impact on children.

What have we done with that blessing?

Smashed their education, their social development, their levels of fitness, their mental health etc.

And now we have a band of massive weirdos wanting to vaccinate them to mainly protect the old and frail, those unlucky with health and those who have not looked after themselves.

Sorry but I make absolutely no apologies for use of the word sickos.

Totally counter intuitive to human nature.

Children would rather have a 2 second jab than do without a sibling, parent or grandparent who happens to to "unlucky with health".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 06:04:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 20, 2021, 05:57:52 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 05:51:25 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on October 20, 2021, 05:46:18 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 04:15:30 PM
Any chance you would stop trying to shape everything around your world view?

Explanation is maybe quite simple i.e. fewer at risk vaccinated.

But could really do with some more info before drawing inferences.

Mortality by vaccination status and age group a good start.

Certainly does nothing to substantiate calls by sickos to vaccinate children and healthy young adults to protect them or pacify their fears.

Get a grip

It is sick.

We were blessed that this virus does not have any great impact on children.

What have we done with that blessing?

Smashed their education, their social development, their levels of fitness, their mental health etc.

And now we have a band of massive weirdos wanting to vaccinate them to mainly protect the old and frail, those unlucky with health and those who have not looked after themselves.

Sorry but I make absolutely no apologies for use of the word sickos.

Totally counter intuitive to human nature.

Children would rather have a 2 second jab than do without a sibling, parent or grandparent who happens to to "unlucky with health".

But vaccination does not stop spread.  I thought we were all on that page?

Clearly many of those who are calling for vaccination of children as a protective barrier don't get this.

And again why the public need to be better informed on every aspect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on October 20, 2021, 06:10:55 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 05:51:25 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on October 20, 2021, 05:46:18 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 04:15:30 PM
Any chance you would stop trying to shape everything around your world view?

Explanation is maybe quite simple i.e. fewer at risk vaccinated.

But could really do with some more info before drawing inferences.

Mortality by vaccination status and age group a good start.

Certainly does nothing to substantiate calls by sickos to vaccinate children and healthy young adults to protect them or pacify their fears.

Get a grip

It is sick.

We were blessed that this virus does not have any great impact on children.

What have we done with that blessing?

Smashed their education, their social development, their levels of fitness, their mental health etc.

And now we have a band of massive weirdos wanting to vaccinate them to mainly protect the old and frail, those unlucky with health and those who have not looked after themselves.

Sorry but I make absolutely no apologies for use of the word sickos.

Totally counter intuitive to human nature.

WTF are you on about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 06:40:53 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on October 20, 2021, 06:10:55 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 05:51:25 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on October 20, 2021, 05:46:18 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 04:15:30 PM
Any chance you would stop trying to shape everything around your world view?

Explanation is maybe quite simple i.e. fewer at risk vaccinated.

But could really do with some more info before drawing inferences.

Mortality by vaccination status and age group a good start.

Certainly does nothing to substantiate calls by sickos to vaccinate children and healthy young adults to protect them or pacify their fears.

Get a grip

It is sick.

We were blessed that this virus does not have any great impact on children.

What have we done with that blessing?

Smashed their education, their social development, their levels of fitness, their mental health etc.

And now we have a band of massive weirdos wanting to vaccinate them to mainly protect the old and frail, those unlucky with health and those who have not looked after themselves.

Sorry but I make absolutely no apologies for use of the word sickos.

Totally counter intuitive to human nature.

WTF are you on about.

Great contribution their Big Fella 👍
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2021, 07:12:54 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 05:39:33 PM
Of course you are not selfish because the definition of selfish is now limited to people who do not choose to be vaccinated.

Housing crisis.  No the 80% of the population who are not selfish can do nothing about that because the definition does not stretch beyond vaccination.

#virtuesignallingtwats

You were the one mentioned selfish. But your points are falling apart. People can be selfish for many reasons.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 07:30:01 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 03:47:28 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 02:36:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 02:31:22 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 02:16:19 PM
What he said (what you claim he said) is widely at odds with the most recently available official government data.

Of course there is a lag in data getting published so subsequent publications might show the vast majority are indeed unvaccinated but we can wait for that and revisit in a few weeks.  It will take a hell of a shift all the same.

Did you catch a name by the way?  I am not finding much by way of reference to 'the Medical Federation UK' let alone who it's head is.

Or even what time he was on as I am genuinely interested to hear what he said so can grab off the catch up.

Taylor, I think and was on radio 5 live at about 8.45am today, I'm sure that is on catch up, just after he finished someone came on and told the BBC to be fairer in their news covering and stop going along the government line sort of thing...

Thanks.

Would you mind going back and listening to 5 Live and perhaps revising what you posted?  Both in terms of who was talking and what was said.

On the positive sounds like you were concentrating on the road more than the radio.

Safety first 😜

No I'll take your informed word on it  ;D...

I'm actually not bothered tbh, my family are double jabbed my wife and I have taken the flu jab last week and we've yet to get Covid in our families, we all work while my daughters also work attended lectures and go to school..

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 09:25:40 PM
Here only having a bit of craic with you lad.  Glad you are all in a good place, that is the main thing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 09:28:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2021, 07:12:54 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 05:39:33 PM
Of course you are not selfish because the definition of selfish is now limited to people who do not choose to be vaccinated.

Housing crisis.  No the 80% of the population who are not selfish can do nothing about that because the definition does not stretch beyond vaccination.

#virtuesignallingtwats

You were the one mentioned selfish. But your points are falling apart. People can be selfish for many reasons.

Na, was not me that patented selfish in relation to vaccination.

And points all falling apart.  Hate when official data don't cut it 👍

But sure I'll take your word on that. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2021, 09:32:29 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 09:28:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2021, 07:12:54 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 05:39:33 PM
Of course you are not selfish because the definition of selfish is now limited to people who do not choose to be vaccinated.

Housing crisis.  No the 80% of the population who are not selfish can do nothing about that because the definition does not stretch beyond vaccination.

#virtuesignallingtwats

You were the one mentioned selfish. But your points are falling apart. People can be selfish for many reasons.

Na, was not me that patented selfish in relation to vaccination.

And points all falling apart.  Hate when official data don't cut it 👍

But sure I'll take your word on that.
Let's not move the goal posts again. Are people with contraindications better served by reducing the rate of people in hospital with Covid or not? It was you that brought them up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:21:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2021, 09:32:29 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 09:28:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2021, 07:12:54 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 05:39:33 PM
Of course you are not selfish because the definition of selfish is now limited to people who do not choose to be vaccinated.

Housing crisis.  No the 80% of the population who are not selfish can do nothing about that because the definition does not stretch beyond vaccination.

#virtuesignallingtwats

You were the one mentioned selfish. But your points are falling apart. People can be selfish for many reasons.

Na, was not me that patented selfish in relation to vaccination.

And points all falling apart.  Hate when official data don't cut it 👍

But sure I'll take your word on that.
Let's not move the goal posts again. Are people with contraindications better served by reducing the rate of people in hospital with Covid or not? It was you that brought them up.

Not moving the goalposts.

If I remember correct I brought up contraindications after someone promoted benefit of Covid passports on basis if everyone in a venue was vaccinated then even in event of a super spreading event it would not be so bad as likelihood of anyone present needing hospital treatment would be low.

Or something to that effect.

However, given we know vaccination does not stop spread then it does not stop one of those in the venue coming into contact with a contraindication and passing the virus to them.

But I guess they could not be called selfish as they have been vaccinated in a selfless act for the greater good.

And of course selfish is much older that my posts when it comes to a collective term for those who don't choose to be vaccinated. Generally the choice of the morning wet blanket crew.

But forgive me for not being more detailed earlier.  I have been away from GAA Board for a long time so I am not terribly au fait with the speed of uptake of individual contributors.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on October 20, 2021, 10:47:18 PM
Fda now telling us you can use whatever booster you want , you pick the cocktail you want, no thanks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2021, 10:52:35 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:21:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2021, 09:32:29 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 09:28:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 20, 2021, 07:12:54 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 05:39:33 PM
Of course you are not selfish because the definition of selfish is now limited to people who do not choose to be vaccinated.

Housing crisis.  No the 80% of the population who are not selfish can do nothing about that because the definition does not stretch beyond vaccination.

#virtuesignallingtwats

You were the one mentioned selfish. But your points are falling apart. People can be selfish for many reasons.

Na, was not me that patented selfish in relation to vaccination.

And points all falling apart.  Hate when official data don't cut it 👍

But sure I'll take your word on that.
Let's not move the goal posts again. Are people with contraindications better served by reducing the rate of people in hospital with Covid or not? It was you that brought them up.

Not moving the goalposts.

If I remember correct I brought up contraindications after someone promoted benefit of Covid passports on basis if everyone in a venue was vaccinated then even in event of a super spreading event it would not be so bad as likelihood of anyone present needing hospital treatment would be low.

Or something to that effect.

However, given we know vaccination does not stop spread then it does not stop one of those in the venue coming into contact with a contraindication and passing the virus to them.

But I guess they could not be called selfish as they have been vaccinated in a selfless act for the greater good.

And of course selfish is much older that my posts when it comes to a collective term for those who don't choose to be vaccinated. Generally the choice of the morning wet blanket crew.

But forgive me for not being more detailed earlier.  I have been away from GAA Board for a long time so I am not terribly au fait with the speed of uptake of individual contributors.

Your grasping. Being vaccinated helps people with contraindications by reducing the impact on the nhs. That is why a pub full of vaccinated people are better that a pub full of unvaccinated. There's no possible way of ensuring everyone with contraindications doesn't come into contact with Covid by either vaccinated or unvaccinated unless you have another lock down or shield. So it's a straw man argument. But you can affect the impact on the nhs if you do contract it.

You seem very annoyed by the term selfish for the unvaccinated. It's only people's opinion, as you say, the term selfish can be used for plenty of people not Covid related as well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 20, 2021, 11:15:17 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 04:15:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2021, 03:57:07 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 02:38:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 20, 2021, 02:35:01 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 02:16:19 PM
What he said (what you claim he said) is widely at odds with the most recently available official government data.

Of course there is a lag in data getting published so subsequent publications might show the vast majority are indeed unvaccinated but we can wait for that and revisit in a few weeks.  It will take a hell of a shift all the same.

Did you catch a name by the way?  I am not finding much by way of reference to 'the Medical Federation UK' let alone who it's head is.

Or even what time he was on as I am genuinely interested to hear what he said so can grab off the catch up.
Any chance you could explain what's happening in Romania, buddy? Here are their figures for you again.

Population 19.29 million
Vaccinated: 29.5%

Covid cases yesterday: 18,863
Covid deaths yesterday: 561 (five hundred and sixty-one)

Would you agree that these figures, when compared against the currently miniscule death figures in widely vaccinated countries like Ireland are a very clear demonstration of the benefits of vaccines and the dangers of widespread non-vaccination?

Sid I think you are mistaking me for someone who is anti vaccination.
Yis all say that.

Any chance you might explain the figures?

Any chance you would stop trying to shape everything around your world view?

Explanation is maybe quite simple i.e. fewer at risk vaccinated.

But could really do with some more info before drawing inferences.

Mortality by vaccination status and age group a good start.

Certainly does nothing to substantiate calls by sickos to vaccinate children and healthy young adults to protect them or pacify their fears.

So you admit vaccination works.

And then you turn around and call the concept of vaccinating children, which we do for a whole range of illnesses, "sick".

You're obviously a deep thinker.  ;D

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on October 20, 2021, 11:49:09 PM
https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1450895353222402060?t=Jr-pEMFz51aluO8wyKzHfA&s=19

Interesting info from Ed Conway of Sky about context of some current data.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 21, 2021, 12:59:44 PM
The vaccine gives people a false sense of protection leading to them gallivanting all over the place
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 21, 2021, 01:01:04 PM

NewstalkFM
@NewstalkFM
Luke O'Neill: More 'mixing, mingling and socialising' is causing high COVID-19 infection rates, despite vaccine uptake.
@PatKennyNT
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on October 21, 2021, 01:04:18 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 21, 2021, 12:59:44 PM
The vaccine gives people a false sense of protection leading to them gallivanting all over the place

Exactly. If I remember correctly even if vaccinated it was advised to socially distance were possible and wear and mask when in crowded place regardless of what the UK govt said. All went clean out the window.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on October 21, 2021, 01:30:40 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on October 21, 2021, 01:04:18 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 21, 2021, 12:59:44 PM
The vaccine gives people a false sense of protection leading to them gallivanting all over the place

Exactly. If I remember correctly even if vaccinated it was advised to socially distance were possible and wear and mask when in crowded place regardless of what the UK govt said. All went clean out the window.

At the moment England is the same way as it was pre pandemic - business as usual.

Very few wear masks - restaurants/bars/nightclubs are all back to normal - people going buck mental in them

Its actually quite surreal when you see what the rest of the UK & Ireland are doing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 21, 2021, 01:31:41 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 21, 2021, 12:59:44 PM
The vaccine gives people a false sense of protection leading to them gallivanting all over the place

100% correct.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 21, 2021, 01:40:06 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 21, 2021, 01:31:41 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 21, 2021, 12:59:44 PM
The vaccine gives people a false sense of protection leading to them gallivanting all over the place

100% correct.

Yes, thats true. Some people went mental last year when restrictions were reduced prior to Christmas. Sicken you the way the vaccinated ones feel no shame in passing it on to the unvaccinated ones ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 21, 2021, 02:00:17 PM
Maybe they need to reintroduce some of the restrictions again. When you look at some of the less vaccinated countries you have to be thankful of the higher rates here. Could have been an absolute clusterfuck as people were becoming slacker with the precautions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 21, 2021, 02:08:58 PM
How many fans are now allowed at PL games? full house? How many away fans are heading to these games and what restrictions were imposed? taken directly to the ground and straight back to airport? or allowed to freely go to bars cafes and so on?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 21, 2021, 02:14:19 PM
Winter is when Covid takes off.
Plus vaccines become less effective over time
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 21, 2021, 02:20:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 21, 2021, 02:14:19 PM
Winter is when Covid takes off.
Plus vaccines become less effective over time

Take your daily dose of Vitamin D & C & Niacin and you'll be fine. If your health is compromised get the booster.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on October 21, 2021, 02:37:59 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 21, 2021, 02:20:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 21, 2021, 02:14:19 PM
Winter is when Covid takes off.
Plus vaccines become less effective over time

Take your daily dose of Vitamin D & C & Niacin and you'll be fine. If your health is compromised get the booster.

There's plenty of young healthy people who've died or been left with serious health issues as a result of Covid. Those vitamins pretty close to useless with regard to protecting you from a novel virus. The vaccine gives good protection.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 22, 2021, 12:40:57 PM
NPHET are expecting ICU cases to double by end of November.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 22, 2021, 12:44:55 PM
I've a relative in ICU.

In 30s but had repeated episodes of pneumonia and chronic asthma throughout his life. Hopefully he will improve.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on October 22, 2021, 12:52:24 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 22, 2021, 12:44:55 PM
I've a relative in ICU.

In 30s but had repeated episodes of pneumonia and chronic asthma throughout his life. Hopefully he will improve.
Good luck to that man,  bad combinations of illnesses
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on October 22, 2021, 01:45:02 PM
I was never sure why the ROI stopped publishing covid death stats (no doubt a political decision) but it should be the best deterrent / publicity for Covid compliance - 63 Covid deaths in the past week. That should be an eye opener for a lot of people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 22, 2021, 02:21:44 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on October 22, 2021, 01:45:02 PM
I was never sure why the ROI stopped publishing covid death stats (no doubt a political decision) but it should be the best deterrent / publicity for Covid compliance - 63 Covid deaths in the past week. That should be an eye opener for a lot of people.
155 Covid deaths in September and that could rise further yet due to backdating.

If we have 155 dying in September, a month when we should be seeing one of the lowest totals for the whole year, that's a big problem. Averaged out over a year that's 1,800. And it's not going to stay near that average over the winter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on October 22, 2021, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 21, 2021, 02:20:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 21, 2021, 02:14:19 PM
Winter is when Covid takes off.
Plus vaccines become less effective over time

Take your daily dose of Vitamin D & C & Niacin and you'll be fine. If your health is compromised get the booster.

Great but even though I can get infected and not be that sick it means others can get it. If getting vaccinated reduces transmission why not get vaccinated??

At this stage I'm all for trying to keep things open as best we can and live with it but we still need to be vaccinated and taking precautions all the time to limit the spread!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 22, 2021, 02:53:58 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on October 22, 2021, 01:45:02 PM
I was never sure why the ROI stopped publishing covid death stats (no doubt a political decision) but it should be the best deterrent / publicity for Covid compliance - 63 Covid deaths in the past week. That should be an eye opener for a lot of people.

They originally stopped because the computer hack fecked up their system and then they decided not to start again. One problem is that they were not reporting the deaths promptly, something they should have fixed last April. Deaths have risen and the 26 counties is gradually approaching the North in death rate. I think the booster jabs will put a ceiling on the deaths though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 22, 2021, 02:56:56 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/1022/1255345-dressing-rooms-re-open-as-gaa-update-guidelines/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 22, 2021, 03:44:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2021, 02:21:44 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on October 22, 2021, 01:45:02 PM
I was never sure why the ROI stopped publishing covid death stats (no doubt a political decision) but it should be the best deterrent / publicity for Covid compliance - 63 Covid deaths in the past week. That should be an eye opener for a lot of people.
155 Covid deaths in September and that could rise further yet due to backdating.

If we have 155 dying in September, a month when we should be seeing one of the lowest totals for the whole year, that's a big problem. Averaged out over a year that's 1,800. And it's not going to stay near that average over the winter.
Numbers are high given that Covid activity is low from April to now.
I can't see nightclubs staying open. The key numbers are free ICU beds and % unvaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 22, 2021, 04:11:08 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on October 22, 2021, 01:45:02 PM
I was never sure why the ROI stopped publishing covid death stats (no doubt a political decision) but it should be the best deterrent / publicity for Covid compliance - 63 Covid deaths in the past week. That should be an eye opener for a lot of people.

They stopped the daily covid death stats because of the cyber attack, I don't believe that was ever fixed they are just working around it now and totting up the data manually.

63 Covid-19 deaths notified inside the last week, of which 16 had a date of death inside the last week. (There is often a lag in reporting deaths to the HPSC some doesn't register deaths for many weeks or even months.)

Biggest eye opener for me was NPHET recommended all the further easing of restrictions to the government, they clearly have a lot of confidence in the vaccination roll out as they had the opposite views this time last year when they pleaded to the public to cancel all Halloween activities.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on October 22, 2021, 04:21:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 22, 2021, 03:44:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2021, 02:21:44 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on October 22, 2021, 01:45:02 PM
I was never sure why the ROI stopped publishing covid death stats (no doubt a political decision) but it should be the best deterrent / publicity for Covid compliance - 63 Covid deaths in the past week. That should be an eye opener for a lot of people.
155 Covid deaths in September and that could rise further yet due to backdating.

If we have 155 dying in September, a month when we should be seeing one of the lowest totals for the whole year, that's a big problem. Averaged out over a year that's 1,800. And it's not going to stay near that average over the winter.
Numbers are high given that Covid activity is low from April to now.
I can't see nightclubs staying open. The key numbers are free ICU beds and % unvaccinated.

They are higher than we would want because of delta variant however if we hadn't so many of the old and vulnerable people vaccinated before it arrived the death number in September and October be close to what we had Last January or April 2020 if not more.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 22, 2021, 04:24:33 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 22, 2021, 03:44:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2021, 02:21:44 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on October 22, 2021, 01:45:02 PM
I was never sure why the ROI stopped publishing covid death stats (no doubt a political decision) but it should be the best deterrent / publicity for Covid compliance - 63 Covid deaths in the past week. That should be an eye opener for a lot of people.
155 Covid deaths in September and that could rise further yet due to backdating.

If we have 155 dying in September, a month when we should be seeing one of the lowest totals for the whole year, that's a big problem. Averaged out over a year that's 1,800. And it's not going to stay near that average over the winter.
Numbers are high given that Covid activity is low from April to now.
I can't see nightclubs staying open. The key numbers are free ICU beds and % unvaccinated.

Perhaps they reckon that the vaccine certs will get a few thousand more youths to get the jab and the rest will get Covid out of the way before Xmas and the worst of the flu season.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on October 22, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 22, 2021, 03:44:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2021, 02:21:44 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on October 22, 2021, 01:45:02 PM
I was never sure why the ROI stopped publishing covid death stats (no doubt a political decision) but it should be the best deterrent / publicity for Covid compliance - 63 Covid deaths in the past week. That should be an eye opener for a lot of people.
155 Covid deaths in September and that could rise further yet due to backdating.

If we have 155 dying in September, a month when we should be seeing one of the lowest totals for the whole year, that's a big problem. Averaged out over a year that's 1,800. And it's not going to stay near that average over the winter.
Numbers are high given that Covid activity is low from April to now.
I can't see nightclubs staying open. The key numbers are free ICU beds and % unvaccinated.
shouldn't increasing emergency icu bed capacity  have been a  priority for any government for the last year and a half ? Doing nothing and then saying we don't have enough can't be a valid government policy while they pay out billions for other "priorities "
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 06:24:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 22, 2021, 03:44:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2021, 02:21:44 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on October 22, 2021, 01:45:02 PM
I was never sure why the ROI stopped publishing covid death stats (no doubt a political decision) but it should be the best deterrent / publicity for Covid compliance - 63 Covid deaths in the past week. That should be an eye opener for a lot of people.
155 Covid deaths in September and that could rise further yet due to backdating.

If we have 155 dying in September, a month when we should be seeing one of the lowest totals for the whole year, that's a big problem. Averaged out over a year that's 1,800. And it's not going to stay near that average over the winter.
Numbers are high given that Covid activity is low from April to now.
I can't see nightclubs staying open. The key numbers are free ICU beds and % unvaccinated.
shouldn't increasing emergency icu bed capacity  have been a  priority for any government for the last year and a half ? Doing nothing and then saying we don't have enough can't be a valid government policy while they pay out billions for other "priorities "

ICUs all have surge beds in an attempt to deal with this, have been in place since April / May last year. Where do you suppose the specialist staff come from to man these new beds?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on October 22, 2021, 06:34:34 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 06:24:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 22, 2021, 03:44:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2021, 02:21:44 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on October 22, 2021, 01:45:02 PM
I was never sure why the ROI stopped publishing covid death stats (no doubt a political decision) but it should be the best deterrent / publicity for Covid compliance - 63 Covid deaths in the past week. That should be an eye opener for a lot of people.
155 Covid deaths in September and that could rise further yet due to backdating.

If we have 155 dying in September, a month when we should be seeing one of the lowest totals for the whole year, that's a big problem. Averaged out over a year that's 1,800. And it's not going to stay near that average over the winter.
Numbers are high given that Covid activity is low from April to now.
I can't see nightclubs staying open. The key numbers are free ICU beds and % unvaccinated.
shouldn't increasing emergency icu bed capacity  have been a  priority for any government for the last year and a half ? Doing nothing and then saying we don't have enough can't be a valid government policy while they pay out billions for other "priorities "

ICUs all have surge beds in an attempt to deal with this, have been in place since April / May last year. Where do you suppose the specialist staff come from to man these new beds?
so are they ready for a surge or not ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 22, 2021, 06:39:23 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 06:24:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 22, 2021, 03:44:15 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2021, 02:21:44 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on October 22, 2021, 01:45:02 PM
I was never sure why the ROI stopped publishing covid death stats (no doubt a political decision) but it should be the best deterrent / publicity for Covid compliance - 63 Covid deaths in the past week. That should be an eye opener for a lot of people.
155 Covid deaths in September and that could rise further yet due to backdating.

If we have 155 dying in September, a month when we should be seeing one of the lowest totals for the whole year, that's a big problem. Averaged out over a year that's 1,800. And it's not going to stay near that average over the winter.
Numbers are high given that Covid activity is low from April to now.
I can't see nightclubs staying open. The key numbers are free ICU beds and % unvaccinated.
shouldn't increasing emergency icu bed capacity  have been a  priority for any government for the last year and a half ? Doing nothing and then saying we don't have enough can't be a valid government policy while they pay out billions for other "priorities "

ICUs all have surge beds in an attempt to deal with this, have been in place since April / May last year. Where do you suppose the specialist staff come from to man these new beds?

Some people seem to think you can miracle up a load of qualified medical staff. Because of the pandemic those that are there are likely to leave because they are operating above capacity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 22, 2021, 07:32:26 PM
In Internet whingeworld you can train an ICU nurse in 3 days, a doctor in a week, a Consultant in 20 days.
Where do you get the people to train.... the unemployment reguster of course.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on October 22, 2021, 07:40:01 PM
Btw next thing coming is if you got your vaccine over 6 months ago you will not be considered fully vaccinated anymore.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2021, 07:40:01 PM
Btw next thing coming is if you got your vaccine over 6 months ago you will not be considered fully vaccinated anymore.

Yes, many of the Vaxxed will be same as the unwashed unvaxxed over the next couple of months once the (so called) Vaccination wears off. In no better a place and back to stage one of this mess of lies.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 08:00:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2021, 07:40:01 PM
Btw next thing coming is if you got your vaccine over 6 months ago you will not be considered fully vaccinated anymore.

Yes, many of the Vaxxed will be same as the unwashed unvaxxed over the next couple of months once the (so called) Vaccination wears off. In no better a place and back to stage one of this mess of lies.

Hence the booster... The scientists are playing what is in front of them. This is new to everyone including them. No idea what you guys problem with the vaccines / boosters are? Do you not believe??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 09:00:17 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 08:00:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2021, 07:40:01 PM
Btw next thing coming is if you got your vaccine over 6 months ago you will not be considered fully vaccinated anymore.

Yes, many of the Vaxxed will be same as the unwashed unvaxxed over the next couple of months once the (so called) Vaccination wears off. In no better a place and back to stage one of this mess of lies.

Hence the booster... The scientists are playing what is in front of them. This is new to everyone including them. No idea what you guys problem with the vaccines / boosters are? Do you not believe??

You've got it in one!

"The Emperor has no clothes"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2021, 09:04:13 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 09:00:17 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 08:00:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2021, 07:40:01 PM
Btw next thing coming is if you got your vaccine over 6 months ago you will not be considered fully vaccinated anymore.

Yes, many of the Vaxxed will be same as the unwashed unvaxxed over the next couple of months once the (so called) Vaccination wears off. In no better a place and back to stage one of this mess of lies.

Hence the booster... The scientists are playing what is in front of them. This is new to everyone including them. No idea what you guys problem with the vaccines / boosters are? Do you not believe??

You've got it in one!

"The Emperor has no clothes"

So it was just a new flu?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 09:06:20 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 09:00:17 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 08:00:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2021, 07:40:01 PM
Btw next thing coming is if you got your vaccine over 6 months ago you will not be considered fully vaccinated anymore.

Yes, many of the Vaxxed will be same as the unwashed unvaxxed over the next couple of months once the (so called) Vaccination wears off. In no better a place and back to stage one of this mess of lies.

Hence the booster... The scientists are playing what is in front of them. This is new to everyone including them. No idea what you guys problem with the vaccines / boosters are? Do you not believe??

You've got it in one!

"The Emperor has no clothes"

If you don't believe the science, scientists, the deaths & those suffering long Covid etc, what or who do you believe? I'm genuinely interested.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 22, 2021, 09:09:26 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 09:00:17 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 08:00:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2021, 07:40:01 PM
Btw next thing coming is if you got your vaccine over 6 months ago you will not be considered fully vaccinated anymore.

Yes, many of the Vaxxed will be same as the unwashed unvaxxed over the next couple of months once the (so called) Vaccination wears off. In no better a place and back to stage one of this mess of lies.

Hence the booster... The scientists are playing what is in front of them. This is new to everyone including them. No idea what you guys problem with the vaccines / boosters are? Do you not believe??

You've got it in one!

"The Emperor has no clothes"
You really have to wonder.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 09:23:35 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 09:06:20 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 09:00:17 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 08:00:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2021, 07:40:01 PM
Btw next thing coming is if you got your vaccine over 6 months ago you will not be considered fully vaccinated anymore.

Yes, many of the Vaxxed will be same as the unwashed unvaxxed over the next couple of months once the (so called) Vaccination wears off. In no better a place and back to stage one of this mess of lies.

Hence the booster... The scientists are playing what is in front of them. This is new to everyone including them. No idea what you guys problem with the vaccines / boosters are? Do you not believe??

You've got it in one!

"The Emperor has no clothes"

If you don't believe the science, scientists, the deaths & those suffering long Covid etc, what or who do you believe? I'm genuinely interested.

I believe that we were told in January that the Vaccines were going to be 80 to 90% effective, that 70% Vaccination in the community was enough to create a herd.

But the goal posts have shifted. Most are very confused at this stage. Promises from earlier in the year seem like wishful thinking.

Are we being lied to?

Are the scientists confused?

Are the scientists lost?

Are the Pharmaceutical Companies rubbing their hands?

This video comes to mind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLEhh_XpJ-0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLEhh_XpJ-0)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2021, 09:33:14 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 09:23:35 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 09:06:20 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 09:00:17 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 08:00:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2021, 07:40:01 PM
Btw next thing coming is if you got your vaccine over 6 months ago you will not be considered fully vaccinated anymore.

Yes, many of the Vaxxed will be same as the unwashed unvaxxed over the next couple of months once the (so called) Vaccination wears off. In no better a place and back to stage one of this mess of lies.

Hence the booster... The scientists are playing what is in front of them. This is new to everyone including them. No idea what you guys problem with the vaccines / boosters are? Do you not believe??

You've got it in one!

"The Emperor has no clothes"

If you don't believe the science, scientists, the deaths & those suffering long Covid etc, what or who do you believe? I'm genuinely interested.

I believe that we were told in January that the Vaccines were going to be 80 to 90% effective, that 70% Vaccination in the community was enough to create a herd.

But the goal posts have shifted. Most are very confused at this stage. Promises from earlier in the year seem like wishful thinking.

Are we being lied to?

Are the scientists confused?

Are the scientists lost?

Are the Pharmaceutical Companies rubbing their hands?

This video comes to mind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLEhh_XpJ-0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLEhh_XpJ-0)

So is it just flu Angelo?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 22, 2021, 09:33:24 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 09:23:35 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 09:06:20 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 09:00:17 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 08:00:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2021, 07:40:01 PM
Btw next thing coming is if you got your vaccine over 6 months ago you will not be considered fully vaccinated anymore.

Yes, many of the Vaxxed will be same as the unwashed unvaxxed over the next couple of months once the (so called) Vaccination wears off. In no better a place and back to stage one of this mess of lies.

Hence the booster... The scientists are playing what is in front of them. This is new to everyone including them. No idea what you guys problem with the vaccines / boosters are? Do you not believe??

You've got it in one!

"The Emperor has no clothes"

If you don't believe the science, scientists, the deaths & those suffering long Covid etc, what or who do you believe? I'm genuinely interested.

I believe that we were told in January that the Vaccines were going to be 80 to 90% effective, that 70% Vaccination in the community was enough to create a herd.

But the goal posts have shifted. Most are very confused at this stage. Promises from earlier in the year seem like wishful thinking.

Are we being lied to?

Are the scientists confused?

Are the scientists lost?

Are the Pharmaceutical Companies rubbing their hands?

This video comes to mind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLEhh_XpJ-0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLEhh_XpJ-0)
Delta is a hoor
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 09:36:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2021, 09:33:14 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 09:23:35 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 09:06:20 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 09:00:17 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 08:00:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2021, 07:40:01 PM
Btw next thing coming is if you got your vaccine over 6 months ago you will not be considered fully vaccinated anymore.

Yes, many of the Vaxxed will be same as the unwashed unvaxxed over the next couple of months once the (so called) Vaccination wears off. In no better a place and back to stage one of this mess of lies.

Hence the booster... The scientists are playing what is in front of them. This is new to everyone including them. No idea what you guys problem with the vaccines / boosters are? Do you not believe??

You've got it in one!

"The Emperor has no clothes"

If you don't believe the science, scientists, the deaths & those suffering long Covid etc, what or who do you believe? I'm genuinely interested.

I believe that we were told in January that the Vaccines were going to be 80 to 90% effective, that 70% Vaccination in the community was enough to create a herd.

But the goal posts have shifted. Most are very confused at this stage. Promises from earlier in the year seem like wishful thinking.

Are we being lied to?

Are the scientists confused?

Are the scientists lost?

Are the Pharmaceutical Companies rubbing their hands?

This video comes to mind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLEhh_XpJ-0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLEhh_XpJ-0)

So is it just flu Angelo?

It's what ever you want it to be Joe O'Shea!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2021, 09:38:38 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 09:36:38 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 22, 2021, 09:33:14 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 09:23:35 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 09:06:20 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 09:00:17 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 08:00:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2021, 07:40:01 PM
Btw next thing coming is if you got your vaccine over 6 months ago you will not be considered fully vaccinated anymore.

Yes, many of the Vaxxed will be same as the unwashed unvaxxed over the next couple of months once the (so called) Vaccination wears off. In no better a place and back to stage one of this mess of lies.

Hence the booster... The scientists are playing what is in front of them. This is new to everyone including them. No idea what you guys problem with the vaccines / boosters are? Do you not believe??

You've got it in one!

"The Emperor has no clothes"

If you don't believe the science, scientists, the deaths & those suffering long Covid etc, what or who do you believe? I'm genuinely interested.

I believe that we were told in January that the Vaccines were going to be 80 to 90% effective, that 70% Vaccination in the community was enough to create a herd.

But the goal posts have shifted. Most are very confused at this stage. Promises from earlier in the year seem like wishful thinking.

Are we being lied to?

Are the scientists confused?

Are the scientists lost?

Are the Pharmaceutical Companies rubbing their hands?

This video comes to mind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLEhh_XpJ-0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLEhh_XpJ-0)

So is it just flu Angelo?

It's what ever you want it to be Joe O'Shea!

I'll ask nice more, I'd you can answer it that be fine, is it just flu?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 09:46:52 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 09:23:35 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 09:06:20 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 09:00:17 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 08:00:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2021, 07:40:01 PM
Btw next thing coming is if you got your vaccine over 6 months ago you will not be considered fully vaccinated anymore.

Yes, many of the Vaxxed will be same as the unwashed unvaxxed over the next couple of months once the (so called) Vaccination wears off. In no better a place and back to stage one of this mess of lies.

Hence the booster... The scientists are playing what is in front of them. This is new to everyone including them. No idea what you guys problem with the vaccines / boosters are? Do you not believe??

You've got it in one!

"The Emperor has no clothes"

If you don't believe the science, scientists, the deaths & those suffering long Covid etc, what or who do you believe? I'm genuinely interested.

I believe that we were told in January that the Vaccines were going to be 80 to 90% effective, that 70% Vaccination in the community was enough to create a herd.

But the goal posts have shifted. Most are very confused at this stage. Promises from earlier in the year seem like wishful thinking.

Are we being lied to?

Are the scientists confused?

Are the scientists lost?

Are the Pharmaceutical Companies rubbing their hands?

This video comes to mind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLEhh_XpJ-0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLEhh_XpJ-0)

As I said, this virus is new to everyone. It mutates, of course the goal posts shift. Nothing can be set in stone. I wouldn't trust a politician as far as I could throw, but the medical professionals, yes, 100%. If I land at the GP practice  or hospital, get diagnosed and treated, I'll take what I'm given as I trust the professionals. You genuinely don't trust them, or just in this case ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 10:06:20 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 09:46:52 PM
As I said, this virus is new to everyone. It mutates, of course the goal posts shift. Nothing can be set in stone. I wouldn't trust a politician as far as I could throw, but the medical professionals, yes, 100%. If I land at the GP practice  or hospital, get diagnosed and treated, I'll take what I'm given as I trust the professionals. You genuinely don't trust them, or just in this case ?

I don't trust that the science knows where they are with the Vaccine. What the Vaccine holds long term. Asking our non threatened youth to take it is reckless. Promoting a booster for an (experimental) vaccine that is struggling is mind-boggling.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 10:11:05 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 10:06:20 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 09:46:52 PM
As I said, this virus is new to everyone. It mutates, of course the goal posts shift. Nothing can be set in stone. I wouldn't trust a politician as far as I could throw, but the medical professionals, yes, 100%. If I land at the GP practice  or hospital, get diagnosed and treated, I'll take what I'm given as I trust the professionals. You genuinely don't trust them, or just in this case ?

I don't trust that the science knows where they are with the Vaccine. What the Vaccine holds long term. Asking our non threatened youth to take it is reckless. Promoting a booster for an (experimental) vaccine that is struggling is mind-boggling.

So you don't trust them. That's your call Bunker, nothing I can say to that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 22, 2021, 10:31:07 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 10:06:20 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 09:46:52 PM
As I said, this virus is new to everyone. It mutates, of course the goal posts shift. Nothing can be set in stone. I wouldn't trust a politician as far as I could throw, but the medical professionals, yes, 100%. If I land at the GP practice  or hospital, get diagnosed and treated, I'll take what I'm given as I trust the professionals. You genuinely don't trust them, or just in this case ?

I don't trust that the science knows where they are with the Vaccine. What the Vaccine holds long term. Asking our non threatened youth to take it is reckless. Promoting a booster for an (experimental) vaccine that is struggling is mind-boggling.

There's little point in complaining about the duration of the vaccine. The experts were saying last year that they didn't know how long it would last and there might be need for a booster. It's like complaining about seatbelts because people still die in car crashes. Completely stupid.
Are we in a better place because of the vaccines? The very simple and obvious answer is yes regardless of the duration of that protection.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 10:11:05 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 10:06:20 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 09:46:52 PM
As I said, this virus is new to everyone. It mutates, of course the goal posts shift. Nothing can be set in stone. I wouldn't trust a politician as far as I could throw, but the medical professionals, yes, 100%. If I land at the GP practice  or hospital, get diagnosed and treated, I'll take what I'm given as I trust the professionals. You genuinely don't trust them, or just in this case ?

I don't trust that the science knows where they are with the Vaccine. What the Vaccine holds long term. Asking our non threatened youth to take it is reckless. Promoting a booster for an (experimental) vaccine that is struggling is mind-boggling.

So you don't trust them. That's your call Bunker, nothing I can say to that

There is nothing you can say to that. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 11:09:05 PM
This is kinda funny...........has the feel of what we were told in January.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FCQnNW-WEAYzM_-?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on October 22, 2021, 11:27:56 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 11:09:05 PM
This is kinda funny...........has the feel of what we were told in January.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FCQnNW-WEAYzM_-?format=jpg&name=large)

I don't think we were? Unless you get you news and science from morons on the internet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 22, 2021, 11:28:31 PM
f**k me. People on Twitter still saying " but if we take an all Ireland approach" Sweet Jesus never miss a crisis
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 22, 2021, 11:55:00 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 09:46:52 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 09:23:35 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 09:06:20 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 09:00:17 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 08:00:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 07:53:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 22, 2021, 07:40:01 PM
Btw next thing coming is if you got your vaccine over 6 months ago you will not be considered fully vaccinated anymore.

Yes, many of the Vaxxed will be same as the unwashed unvaxxed over the next couple of months once the (so called) Vaccination wears off. In no better a place and back to stage one of this mess of lies.

Hence the booster... The scientists are playing what is in front of them. This is new to everyone including them. No idea what you guys problem with the vaccines / boosters are? Do you not believe??

You've got it in one!

"The Emperor has no clothes"

If you don't believe the science, scientists, the deaths & those suffering long Covid etc, what or who do you believe? I'm genuinely interested.

I believe that we were told in January that the Vaccines were going to be 80 to 90% effective, that 70% Vaccination in the community was enough to create a herd.

But the goal posts have shifted. Most are very confused at this stage. Promises from earlier in the year seem like wishful thinking.

Are we being lied to?

Are the scientists confused?

Are the scientists lost?

Are the Pharmaceutical Companies rubbing their hands?

This video comes to mind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLEhh_XpJ-0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLEhh_XpJ-0)

As I said, this virus is new to everyone. It mutates, of course the goal posts shift. Nothing can be set in stone. I wouldn't trust a politician as far as I could throw, but the medical professionals, yes, 100%. If I land at the GP practice  or hospital, get diagnosed and treated, I'll take what I'm given as I trust the professionals. You genuinely don't trust them, or just in this case ?

GP's are the bottom of the rung  of the ladder. It's the people further up the ladder that I don't trust. The likes of O'Neill and his cronies, pharmaceuticals and WHO. I wouldn't trust one word they utter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 23, 2021, 12:12:53 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 10:37:10 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 10:11:05 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 22, 2021, 10:06:20 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 22, 2021, 09:46:52 PM
As I said, this virus is new to everyone. It mutates, of course the goal posts shift. Nothing can be set in stone. I wouldn't trust a politician as far as I could throw, but the medical professionals, yes, 100%. If I land at the GP practice  or hospital, get diagnosed and treated, I'll take what I'm given as I trust the professionals. You genuinely don't trust them, or just in this case ?

I don't trust that the science knows where they are with the Vaccine. What the Vaccine holds long term. Asking our non threatened youth to take it is reckless. Promoting a booster for an (experimental) vaccine that is struggling is mind-boggling.

So you don't trust them. That's your call Bunker, nothing I can say to that

There is nothing you can say to that. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
What are you waiting for? More hospital admissions, longer waiting times for cancer diagnoses and surgery, more deaths, more lockdowns and businesses closed? The statistics are VERY clear that the vaccine works, but like other vaccines it has its limitations (see annual flu jab and other boosters). So what EXACTLY are you waiting for?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 23, 2021, 01:38:00 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 23, 2021, 12:12:53 AM
What are you waiting for? More hospital admissions, longer waiting times for cancer diagnoses and surgery, more deaths, more lockdowns and businesses closed? The statistics are VERY clear that the vaccine works, but like other vaccines it has its limitations (see annual flu jab and other boosters). So what EXACTLY are you waiting for?

I'm waiting for to see what happens? There is a melt down on the way. Because of the failure of these vaccines less will take the useless booster the next time around. Covid Certs will have the same worth as Eircom Shares.

''The Emperor has no clothes''
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 23, 2021, 08:00:36 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 23, 2021, 01:38:00 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 23, 2021, 12:12:53 AM
What are you waiting for? More hospital admissions, longer waiting times for cancer diagnoses and surgery, more deaths, more lockdowns and businesses closed? The statistics are VERY clear that the vaccine works, but like other vaccines it has its limitations (see annual flu jab and other boosters). So what EXACTLY are you waiting for?

I'm waiting for to see what happens? There is a melt down on the way. Because of the failure of these vaccines less will take the useless booster the next time around. Covid Certs will have the same worth as Eircom Shares.

''The Emperor has no clothes''

Ask that Crystal ball does Derry win the Anglo Celt in the next few years!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 08:41:48 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 23, 2021, 01:38:00 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 23, 2021, 12:12:53 AM
What are you waiting for? More hospital admissions, longer waiting times for cancer diagnoses and surgery, more deaths, more lockdowns and businesses closed? The statistics are VERY clear that the vaccine works, but like other vaccines it has its limitations (see annual flu jab and other boosters). So what EXACTLY are you waiting for?

I'm waiting for to see what happens? There is a melt down on the way. Because of the failure of these vaccines less will take the useless booster the next time around. Covid Certs will have the same worth as Eircom Shares.

''The Emperor has no clothes''

Failure of the vaccines? This is the spin attempted now.  Have you looked at the hospitalisation rate or death rate in vaccinated v unvaccinated? Talk me through that failure?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 23, 2021, 09:14:08 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 23, 2021, 08:00:36 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 23, 2021, 01:38:00 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 23, 2021, 12:12:53 AM
What are you waiting for? More hospital admissions, longer waiting times for cancer diagnoses and surgery, more deaths, more lockdowns and businesses closed? The statistics are VERY clear that the vaccine works, but like other vaccines it has its limitations (see annual flu jab and other boosters). So what EXACTLY are you waiting for?

I'm waiting for to see what happens? There is a melt down on the way. Because of the failure of these vaccines less will take the useless booster the next time around. Covid Certs will have the same worth as Eircom Shares.

''The Emperor has no clothes''

Ask that Crystal ball does Derry win the Anglo Celt in the next few years!

(https://i.ibb.co/XZ49BvG/magic-eight-ball-outlook-not-so-good-photo-researchers-inc.jpg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake
They absolutely lower it. There's no appear or discussion on it. Do they require a booster/ top up? Looking that way. Is this an issue? No. Will vaccine efficiently improve with new versions, most likely. Complaining that it doesn't do enough when there's  no alternative is nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 10:20:10 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake
They absolutely lower it. There's no appear or discussion on it. Do they require a booster/ top up? Looking that way. Is this an issue? No. Will vaccine efficiently improve with new versions, most likely. Complaining that it doesn't do enough when there's  no alternative is nonsense.

You are arguing with yourself
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2021, 10:42:49 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake

I think we hope for a lot of things, but a reduced death count or long standing illness if you've been double vaccinated is better than doing nothing. Whether we've been sold a pup or not, the stats are showing better.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 23, 2021, 10:54:43 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 23, 2021, 09:14:08 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 23, 2021, 08:00:36 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 23, 2021, 01:38:00 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 23, 2021, 12:12:53 AM
What are you waiting for? More hospital admissions, longer waiting times for cancer diagnoses and surgery, more deaths, more lockdowns and businesses closed? The statistics are VERY clear that the vaccine works, but like other vaccines it has its limitations (see annual flu jab and other boosters). So what EXACTLY are you waiting for?

I'm waiting for to see what happens? There is a melt down on the way. Because of the failure of these vaccines less will take the useless booster the next time around. Covid Certs will have the same worth as Eircom Shares.

''The Emperor has no clothes''

Ask that Crystal ball does Derry win the Anglo Celt in the next few years!

(https://i.ibb.co/XZ49BvG/magic-eight-ball-outlook-not-so-good-photo-researchers-inc.jpg)

You boys are looking over your shoulders! Don't deny it  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 10:57:57 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 23, 2021, 10:42:49 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake

I think we hope for a lot of things, but a reduced death count or long standing illness if you've been double vaccinated is better than doing nothing. Whether we've been sold a pup or not, the stats are showing better.

Yep
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 10:59:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 10:20:10 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake
They absolutely lower it. There's no appear or discussion on it. Do they require a booster/ top up? Looking that way. Is this an issue? No. Will vaccine efficiently improve with new versions, most likely. Complaining that it doesn't do enough when there's  no alternative is nonsense.

You are arguing with yourself
Im stating facts. Engage or don't engage, but don't waste everyone's time with bs replies like that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 23, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake
They absolutely lower it. There's no appear or discussion on it. Do they require a booster/ top up? Looking that way. Is this an issue? No. Will vaccine efficiently improve with new versions, most likely. Complaining that it doesn't do enough when there's  no alternative is nonsense.

There are alternatives. They just tell us there isn't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 11:39:05 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 23, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake
They absolutely lower it. There's no appear or discussion on it. Do they require a booster/ top up? Looking that way. Is this an issue? No. Will vaccine efficiently improve with new versions, most likely. Complaining that it doesn't do enough when there's  no alternative is nonsense.

There are alternatives. They just tell us there isn't.
Give us a run down there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 23, 2021, 11:44:16 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 23, 2021, 01:38:00 AM
I'm waiting for to see what happens? There is a melt down on the way. Because of the failure of these vaccines less will take the useless booster the next time around. Covid Certs will have the same worth as Eircom Shares.

''The Emperor has no clothes''

This is dangerous nonsense. These are some of the best vaccines ever designed and the booster is a having very effective results in Israel and it is not yet clear how long the booster will last. There are 90 vaccines under development and this work will improve the vaccine further, either in its performance, in its longevity or in the ability to give to everyone easily. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 02:02:59 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 10:59:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 10:20:10 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake
They absolutely lower it. There's no appear or discussion on it. Do they require a booster/ top up? Looking that way. Is this an issue? No. Will vaccine efficiently improve with new versions, most likely. Complaining that it doesn't do enough when there's  no alternative is nonsense.

You are arguing with yourself
Im stating facts. Engage or don't engage, but don't waste everyone's time with bs replies like that.

I'm agreeing with what you said and you still want to pick a fight
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 03:57:58 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 02:02:59 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 10:59:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 10:20:10 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake
They absolutely lower it. There's no appear or discussion on it. Do they require a booster/ top up? Looking that way. Is this an issue? No. Will vaccine efficiently improve with new versions, most likely. Complaining that it doesn't do enough when there's  no alternative is nonsense.

You are arguing with yourself
Im stating facts. Engage or don't engage, but don't waste everyone's time with bs replies like that.

I'm agreeing with what you said and you still want to pick a fight
There's no fight? What are you on about?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 04:11:22 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 03:57:58 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 02:02:59 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 10:59:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 10:20:10 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake
They absolutely lower it. There's no appear or discussion on it. Do they require a booster/ top up? Looking that way. Is this an issue? No. Will vaccine efficiently improve with new versions, most likely. Complaining that it doesn't do enough when there's  no alternative is nonsense.

You are arguing with yourself
Im stating facts. Engage or don't engage, but don't waste everyone's time with bs replies like that.

I'm agreeing with what you said and you still want to pick a fight
There's no fight? What are you on about?

You just seem wile angry
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 04:26:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 04:11:22 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 03:57:58 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 02:02:59 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 10:59:12 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 10:20:10 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake
They absolutely lower it. There's no appear or discussion on it. Do they require a booster/ top up? Looking that way. Is this an issue? No. Will vaccine efficiently improve with new versions, most likely. Complaining that it doesn't do enough when there's  no alternative is nonsense.

You are arguing with yourself
Im stating facts. Engage or don't engage, but don't waste everyone's time with bs replies like that.

I'm agreeing with what you said and you still want to pick a fight
There's no fight? What are you on about?

You just seem wile angry
Raging
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on October 24, 2021, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 11:39:05 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 23, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake
They absolutely lower it. There's no appear or discussion on it. Do they require a booster/ top up? Looking that way. Is this an issue? No. Will vaccine efficiently improve with new versions, most likely. Complaining that it doesn't do enough when there's  no alternative is nonsense.

There are alternatives. They just tell us there isn't.
Give us a run down there.
how many shots are you ok with taking?
Whatever the experts tell you ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 24, 2021, 07:24:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 24, 2021, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 11:39:05 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 23, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake
They absolutely lower it. There's no appear or discussion on it. Do they require a booster/ top up? Looking that way. Is this an issue? No. Will vaccine efficiently improve with new versions, most likely. Complaining that it doesn't do enough when there's  no alternative is nonsense.

There are alternatives. They just tell us there isn't.
Give us a run down there.
how many shots are you ok with taking?
Whatever the experts tell you ?

Yes! Do you generally not listen to what medical experts tell you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 24, 2021, 07:28:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 24, 2021, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 11:39:05 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 23, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake
They absolutely lower it. There's no appear or discussion on it. Do they require a booster/ top up? Looking that way. Is this an issue? No. Will vaccine efficiently improve with new versions, most likely. Complaining that it doesn't do enough when there's  no alternative is nonsense.

There are alternatives. They just tell us there isn't.
Give us a run down there.
how many shots are you ok with taking?
Whatever the experts tell you ?

Flu jab every year and not a dickey bird, Covid vaccine, all hell breaks loose!!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on October 24, 2021, 07:30:45 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 24, 2021, 07:24:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 24, 2021, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 11:39:05 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 23, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake
They absolutely lower it. There's no appear or discussion on it. Do they require a booster/ top up? Looking that way. Is this an issue? No. Will vaccine efficiently improve with new versions, most likely. Complaining that it doesn't do enough when there's  no alternative is nonsense.

There are alternatives. They just tell us there isn't.
Give us a run down there.
how many shots are you ok with taking?
Whatever the experts tell you ?

Yes! Do you generally not listen to what medical experts tell you?
just curious why you would think it will work better the 7/8 time you get it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on October 24, 2021, 07:32:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 24, 2021, 07:28:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 24, 2021, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 11:39:05 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 23, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake
They absolutely lower it. There's no appear or discussion on it. Do they require a booster/ top up? Looking that way. Is this an issue? No. Will vaccine efficiently improve with new versions, most likely. Complaining that it doesn't do enough when there's  no alternative is nonsense.

There are alternatives. They just tell us there isn't.
Give us a run down there.
how many shots are you ok with taking?
Whatever the experts tell you ?

Flu jab every year and not a dickey bird, Covid vaccine, all hell breaks loose!!
do you need a flu shot passport to have a pint ?
Flu shot works about 50%
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 24, 2021, 07:42:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 24, 2021, 07:30:45 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 24, 2021, 07:24:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 24, 2021, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 11:39:05 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 23, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake
They absolutely lower it. There's no appear or discussion on it. Do they require a booster/ top up? Looking that way. Is this an issue? No. Will vaccine efficiently improve with new versions, most likely. Complaining that it doesn't do enough when there's  no alternative is nonsense.

There are alternatives. They just tell us there isn't.
Give us a run down there.
how many shots are you ok with taking?
Whatever the experts tell you ?

Yes! Do you generally not listen to what medical experts tell you?
just curious why you would think it will work better the 7/8 time you get it

You didn't answer my question.  ???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 24, 2021, 07:45:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 24, 2021, 07:32:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 24, 2021, 07:28:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 24, 2021, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 11:39:05 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 23, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake
They absolutely lower it. There's no appear or discussion on it. Do they require a booster/ top up? Looking that way. Is this an issue? No. Will vaccine efficiently improve with new versions, most likely. Complaining that it doesn't do enough when there's  no alternative is nonsense.

There are alternatives. They just tell us there isn't.
Give us a run down there.
how many shots are you ok with taking?
Whatever the experts tell you ?

Flu jab every year and not a dickey bird, Covid vaccine, all hell breaks loose!!
do you need a flu shot passport to have a pint ?
Flu shot works about 50%

So it's just for getting a pint? Ok!!

50% for the success of a jab is better than none I suppose
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 24, 2021, 07:45:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 24, 2021, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 11:39:05 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 23, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake
They absolutely lower it. There's no appear or discussion on it. Do they require a booster/ top up? Looking that way. Is this an issue? No. Will vaccine efficiently improve with new versions, most likely. Complaining that it doesn't do enough when there's  no alternative is nonsense.

There are alternatives. They just tell us there isn't.
Give us a run down there.
how many shots are you ok with taking?
Whatever the experts tell you ?

Is that a serious question? No I'm waiting for confirmation on the magic number from Bennycake.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on October 24, 2021, 07:48:09 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 24, 2021, 07:32:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 24, 2021, 07:28:54 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 24, 2021, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 11:39:05 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 23, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake
They absolutely lower it. There's no appear or discussion on it. Do they require a booster/ top up? Looking that way. Is this an issue? No. Will vaccine efficiently improve with new versions, most likely. Complaining that it doesn't do enough when there's  no alternative is nonsense.

There are alternatives. They just tell us there isn't.
Give us a run down there.
how many shots are you ok with taking?
Whatever the experts tell you ?

Flu jab every year and not a dickey bird, Covid vaccine, all hell breaks loose!!
do you need a flu shot passport to have a pint ?
Flu shot works about 50%

There are numerous strains of flu. The flu jab changes each year to include protection against a number of strains which have been predicted as the most likely for that season. The flu jab gives you less than 50% protection of getting the flu but like with the covid jab it means you're likely to have mild symptoms if you do get infected. The covid jab is extremely effective given the time frame and it's likely that a more effective covid jab will developed in the next year or 2. France have developed one which is a traditional type of vaccine ie it uses an inactivated piece of the virus so your body can recognise it in future. It is said to be less vulnerable to defeat by variants because it protects against a number of proteins in the virus and not just the spike protein. I won't be eligible for the booster, at least in the initial run but I would take it in the morning if I could.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on October 24, 2021, 08:15:05 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 24, 2021, 07:45:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 24, 2021, 07:16:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 11:39:05 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 23, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on October 23, 2021, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 23, 2021, 09:00:37 AM
I don't think there is much to argue about.
Vaccines appear to lowering severity of symptoms but they are nowhere near as effective for prolonged periods as we had hoped.
What lies ahead we don't know. Preferably a better more effective vaccine as I think there is the real danger of drop off in booster uptake
They absolutely lower it. There's no appear or discussion on it. Do they require a booster/ top up? Looking that way. Is this an issue? No. Will vaccine efficiently improve with new versions, most likely. Complaining that it doesn't do enough when there's  no alternative is nonsense.

There are alternatives. They just tell us there isn't.
Give us a run down there.
how many shots are you ok with taking?
Whatever the experts tell you ?

Is that a serious question? No I'm waiting for confirmation on the magic number from Bennycake.
him and Pfizer are thinking about 6
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on October 24, 2021, 08:32:23 PM
Got my normal flu jab yesterday like I done so past 10 or 12 yrs, Flu changes every Yr hence the need to get one. Don't c why people are surprised u need a booster each Yr, as covid a stronger more continuous form of the flu strain
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Never Give Up on October 24, 2021, 08:43:15 PM
Have any previous flu strains resulted in long-lasting debilitating versions like long-covid or is that unique to Coronavirus? ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 24, 2021, 08:52:49 PM
Yes. Long COVID is a post viral thing like ME. (Which, I think, is from flu though am far from an expert on any of this :D)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on October 25, 2021, 03:13:34 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 24, 2021, 08:32:23 PM
Got my normal flu jab yesterday like I done so past 10 or 12 yrs, Flu changes every Yr hence the need to get one. Don't c why people are surprised u need a booster each Yr, as covid a stronger more continuous form of the flu strain

I got the flu jab and the covid booster at the same time over the weekend. One each shoulder.

I would expect I'll be back in the spring for another covid booster, just like I'll get another flu jab next autumn.

It cost me about half an hour out of my day and little else.

Yet they're screaming like these mandates are the end of the f**king world. Bunch of babies have no idea what actual hardship and persecution are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on October 25, 2021, 03:54:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2021, 03:13:34 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 24, 2021, 08:32:23 PM
Got my normal flu jab yesterday like I done so past 10 or 12 yrs, Flu changes every Yr hence the need to get one. Don't c why people are surprised u need a booster each Yr, as covid a stronger more continuous form of the flu strain

I got the flu jab and the covid booster at the same time over the weekend. One each shoulder.

I would expect I'll be back in the spring for another covid booster, just like I'll get another flu jab next autumn.

It cost me about half an hour out of my day and little else.

Yet they're screaming like these mandates are the end of the f**king world. Bunch of babies have no idea what actual hardship and persecution are.
keith olbermann would be proud of you .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on October 25, 2021, 04:30:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 25, 2021, 03:54:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 25, 2021, 03:13:34 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 24, 2021, 08:32:23 PM
Got my normal flu jab yesterday like I done so past 10 or 12 yrs, Flu changes every Yr hence the need to get one. Don't c why people are surprised u need a booster each Yr, as covid a stronger more continuous form of the flu strain

I got the flu jab and the covid booster at the same time over the weekend. One each shoulder.

I would expect I'll be back in the spring for another covid booster, just like I'll get another flu jab next autumn.

It cost me about half an hour out of my day and little else.

Yet they're screaming like these mandates are the end of the f**king world. Bunch of babies have no idea what actual hardship and persecution are.
keith olbermann would be proud of you .

I've no idea if he would or not.

Haven't heard a peep out of him in about 15 years since he used to be hammering Bush and O'Reilly every night on MSNBC.

But, if he's like most normal people, who aren't full of dumb entitlement and bogus persecution complexes, he probably accepts covid boosters are a fairly routine, non-controversial response to a public health crisis.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 25, 2021, 06:51:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 24, 2021, 08:52:49 PM
Yes. Long COVID is a post viral thing like ME. (Which, I think, is from flu though am far from an expert on any of this :D)
Very little is currently known about it. It seems to attack loads of different body systems
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 25, 2021, 07:00:35 PM
Me is the same though. Different people / different demographics get impacted. Long COVID is a bad bad job if you get it is all I know. Anyone who thinks it is made up should speak to a few people who have it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 25, 2021, 07:35:44 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 25, 2021, 07:00:35 PM
Me is the same though. Different people / different demographics get impacted. Long COVID is a bad bad job if you get it is all I know. Anyone who thinks it is made up should speak to a few people who have it.
I read somewhere that research into Long Covid may help medical understanding of ME. Some doctors think the immune system turns on itself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 25, 2021, 07:54:08 PM
That would be good. A boy a few years younger than me at school got ME and tbh even through his senior career hurling and football wise he never fully seemed to recover from it. The long covid seems more prevalent but I suppose a) it's more topical and b) numbers of covid seem higher so more people will get it statistically speaking. Both by the sounds of it are horrible and impact far too many younger people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 25, 2021, 08:54:11 PM
This is from the Financial Times re Long Covid and free to read

https://www.ft.com/content/3387ffe1-f9aa-4751-b6ac-e09f256d7966
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 25, 2021, 09:41:50 PM
A young girl in our work has been ruined by it at 21. It can last more than months.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 26, 2021, 01:03:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 25, 2021, 09:41:50 PM
A young girl in our work has been ruined by it at 21. It can last more than months.
That sounds awful.
Health is so precious
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 26, 2021, 10:43:11 PM
The true face of the extreme right wing "anti-lockdown", anti-vaccine "movement", even though it refuses to show its face.

https://twitter.com/culladgh/status/1450103964876353538
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 10:25:39 AM
It's getting out of hand tbh. People need arrested for harassment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 12:27:59 PM
Get a grip. If that was people confronting a politician for attending the NI centenary service,  collusion, women's rights etc, you'd be applauding them for confronting them head on. It's because it doesn't fit with your agenda, that you're calling for them to be arrested.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 12:33:17 PM
Bullshit Benny. It's not just politicians. Have you see the hospital workers getting accosted and the legal writs going round to places mandating masks?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2021, 12:39:26 PM
Been in Manchester these last couple of days, though not mandatory, face masks usage is about 5% more in use on the trams but shopping, pubs restaurants would nearly be nought!

Oh and seen two people wearing poppies  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 27, 2021, 12:45:06 PM
Should bring out a poppy mask. Wouldn't be long getting the usage increased. Confuse a few people too mind you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 27, 2021, 01:00:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 12:27:59 PM
Get a grip. If that was people confronting a politician for attending the NI centenary service,  collusion, women's rights etc, you'd be applauding them for confronting them head on. It's because it doesn't fit with your agenda, that you're calling for them to be arrested.

Get a grip? This is acceptable in your world Benny? This type of behaviour is disgusting and will escalate unless dealt with.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 27, 2021, 01:12:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 26, 2021, 10:43:11 PM
The true face of the extreme right wing "anti-lockdown", anti-vaccine "movement", even though it refuses to show its face.

https://twitter.com/culladgh/status/1450103964876353538
Manipulated gobshites
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 27, 2021, 01:00:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 12:27:59 PM
Get a grip. If that was people confronting a politician for attending the NI centenary service,  collusion, women's rights etc, you'd be applauding them for confronting them head on. It's because it doesn't fit with your agenda, that you're calling for them to be arrested.

Get a grip? This is acceptable in your world Benny? This type of behaviour is disgusting and will escalate unless dealt with.

Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 01:46:10 PM
So that's a yes then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 27, 2021, 01:46:43 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 27, 2021, 01:00:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 12:27:59 PM
Get a grip. If that was people confronting a politician for attending the NI centenary service,  collusion, women's rights etc, you'd be applauding them for confronting them head on. It's because it doesn't fit with your agenda, that you're calling for them to be arrested.

Get a grip? This is acceptable in your world Benny? This type of behaviour is disgusting and will escalate unless dealt with.

Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.

This is a testing time for pretty much everyone, no question, however the vast majority will continue to try and do all we can ie be civil in a mostly civilised world. We can't however control what yourself and the lunatic fringe do (both physically and verbally) now or when things escalate ... The authorities can however.

PS: You do some shifting of the goalposts
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 27, 2021, 01:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 26, 2021, 10:43:11 PM
The true face of the extreme right wing "anti-lockdown", anti-vaccine "movement", even though it refuses to show its face.

https://twitter.com/culladgh/status/1450103964876353538
Manipulated gobshites
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on October 27, 2021, 01:49:10 PM
Where does these "protestors" get the time? Do they work?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 27, 2021, 01:51:12 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 27, 2021, 01:00:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 12:27:59 PM
Get a grip. If that was people confronting a politician for attending the NI centenary service,  collusion, women's rights etc, you'd be applauding them for confronting them head on. It's because it doesn't fit with your agenda, that you're calling for them to be arrested.

Get a grip? This is acceptable in your world Benny? This type of behaviour is disgusting and will escalate unless dealt with.

Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.
Have you got anything except dumb slogans?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 02:14:52 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 27, 2021, 01:46:43 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 27, 2021, 01:00:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 12:27:59 PM
Get a grip. If that was people confronting a politician for attending the NI centenary service,  collusion, women's rights etc, you'd be applauding them for confronting them head on. It's because it doesn't fit with your agenda, that you're calling for them to be arrested.

Get a grip? This is acceptable in your world Benny? This type of behaviour is disgusting and will escalate unless dealt with.

Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.

This is a testing time for pretty much everyone, no question, however the vast majority will continue to try and do all we can ie be civil in a mostly civilised world. We can't however control what yourself and the lunatic fringe do (both physically and verbally) now or when things escalate ... The authorities can however.

PS: You do some shifting of the goalposts

I noticed your language there. We = vaccinated = adhering to all guidelines = the good guys, as opposed to: them = unvaccinated = adhering to no guidelines = those with an alternate opinion/question things = the bad guys.

"Try and do all we can" - Well that Clearly isn't happening. Thousands are ignoring all health advice, and that includes jabbed, unjabbed and everything in between. So don't insult me with it's clearly all the unvaccinated peoples fault that we're still in this mess. You're clearly falling for the mainstream media's narrative.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 02:16:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2021, 01:51:12 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 27, 2021, 01:00:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 12:27:59 PM
Get a grip. If that was people confronting a politician for attending the NI centenary service,  collusion, women's rights etc, you'd be applauding them for confronting them head on. It's because it doesn't fit with your agenda, that you're calling for them to be arrested.

Get a grip? This is acceptable in your world Benny? This type of behaviour is disgusting and will escalate unless dealt with.

Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.
Have you got anything except dumb slogans?

Well, tell me, which part of the above  post is false?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 02:22:01 PM
deliberately
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on October 27, 2021, 02:46:10 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 02:16:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2021, 01:51:12 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 27, 2021, 01:00:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 12:27:59 PM
Get a grip. If that was people confronting a politician for attending the NI centenary service,  collusion, women's rights etc, you'd be applauding them for confronting them head on. It's because it doesn't fit with your agenda, that you're calling for them to be arrested.

Get a grip? This is acceptable in your world Benny? This type of behaviour is disgusting and will escalate unless dealt with.

Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.
Have you got anything except dumb slogans?

Well, tell me, which part of the above  post is false?
benny it's just 2 weeks to stop the spread .
Make sure you wear a mask entering a restaurant  but drink and eat with it off for 2 hours .
Sit on a packed plane for 10 hours but don't allow many go to church even with masks.
Don't get in your own car on your own and drive past 5km , very dangerous.
Wear a mask in a nightclub but take it off when your dancing 🕺🏼or drinking ?
Vaccinate your 5 year old because we need to see if it works and find out side effects
Take a booster because the first 2 doses you got in the last 6 months didn't work and be ready for several more boosters of same vaccine
We have huge % of population vaccinated but the small % of unvaccinated are to blame for 10 times cases we had when we had no vaccine and if you disagree you're a right wing loon
We the government f$ck up everything but our covid policy is unquestionably perfect
Natural immunity is not real and wont be accounted for .
Wear masks outdoors it's the safe thing to do .
Lock old people in care homes , it won't spread in there right ?
The ridiculousness of the last 20 months. Plenty more too
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on October 27, 2021, 02:55:38 PM
Reasoned debate is no longer a thing. "If you don't share all my beliefs you are my enemy and a personal threat to me and society at large".  The natural product of censorship and cancel culture is that we become increasingly tribal and poor humans who lack emotional intelligence(on both sides) may get on like this. Not exactly shocking. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 27, 2021, 03:01:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 27, 2021, 02:46:10 PM
]benny it's just 2 weeks to stop the spread .

you apply the treatment until it works

Quote
Make sure you wear a mask entering a restaurant  but drink and eat with it off for 2 hours .

You should sit at a table some distance from other tables while doing that.

Quote
Sit on a packed plane for 10 hours but don't allow many go to church even with masks.

A plane is an engineered environment with specified ventilation standards.

QuoteDon't get in your own car on your own and drive past 5km , very dangerous.

The drive is not dangerous, but it reduces the range of people you come into contact with.

QuoteVaccinate your 5 year old because we need to see if it works and find out side effects
Vaccinate your 5 year old so that he does not spread the disease to you or his granny.

Quote
Take a booster because the first 2 doses you got in the last 6 months didn't work and be ready for several more boosters of same vaccine

It does work, nothing lasts forever and in this case it is better safe than sorry.

QuoteWe have huge % of population vaccinated but the small % of unvaccinated are to blame for 10 times cases we had when we had no vaccine and if you disagree you're a right wing loon

The unvaccinated are both more likely to spread the disease and are making up more than half of those in ICU, their delinquent actions are clearly a problem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2021, 01:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 26, 2021, 10:43:11 PM
The true face of the extreme right wing "anti-lockdown", anti-vaccine "movement", even though it refuses to show its face.

https://twitter.com/culladgh/status/1450103964876353538
Manipulated gobshites

In fairness they are gobshites. Don't like that culture of harassment & videoing. They remind me of Antifa Bellends.  How are they manipulated though? One could argue that the ones been manipulated, are the healthy under 50's  who will go on to take multiple Covid booster jabs. I said it before the efficacy of these vaccines is poor, science must to better.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 27, 2021, 03:16:03 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 02:14:52 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 27, 2021, 01:46:43 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 27, 2021, 01:00:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 12:27:59 PM
Get a grip. If that was people confronting a politician for attending the NI centenary service,  collusion, women's rights etc, you'd be applauding them for confronting them head on. It's because it doesn't fit with your agenda, that you're calling for them to be arrested.

Get a grip? This is acceptable in your world Benny? This type of behaviour is disgusting and will escalate unless dealt with.

Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.

This is a testing time for pretty much everyone, no question, however the vast majority will continue to try and do all we can ie be civil in a mostly civilised world. We can't however control what yourself and the lunatic fringe do (both physically and verbally) now or when things escalate ... The authorities can however.

PS: You do some shifting of the goalposts

I noticed your language there. We = vaccinated = adhering to all guidelines = the good guys, as opposed to: them = unvaccinated = adhering to no guidelines = those with an alternate opinion/question things = the bad guys.

"Try and do all we can" - Well that Clearly isn't happening. Thousands are ignoring all health advice, and that includes jabbed, unjabbed and everything in between. So don't insult me with it's clearly all the unvaccinated peoples fault that we're still in this mess. You're clearly falling for the mainstream media's narrative.

We rather than I, that's the difference Benny.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 03:25:20 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2021, 01:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 26, 2021, 10:43:11 PM
The true face of the extreme right wing "anti-lockdown", anti-vaccine "movement", even though it refuses to show its face.

https://twitter.com/culladgh/status/1450103964876353538
Manipulated gobshites

In fairness they are gobshites. Don't like that culture of harassment & videoing. They remind me of Antifa Bellends.  How are they manipulated though? One could argue that the ones been manipulated, are the healthy under 50's  who will go on to take multiple Covid booster jabs. I said it before the efficacy of these vaccines is poor, science must to better.

I'll be honest - there's a few people I know of and I know they have issues with their mental health and they are starting to buy into a lot of the anti vax nonsense. Now some people may have genuine concerns on the vaccine and that is fine but it is the batshit crazy they are out to control you and to get you and this has been the plan all along. I'll tell you what - based on some stuff I hear sometimes I wish my company could get the project manager who conspired to manage the whole pandemic.

* Just to be clear the pandemic has been a big struggle for lots of people but for me there are some people who have really struggled on a mental health level and are completely scundered with it. I believe there are "anti vax propagandists" who are trying to tap into this. That really concerns me. The people who are doing the harassing here will mainly be people who have been sucked into it not the people who are "driving" it.

I empathise with people who are struggling and who don't buy into the vaccine etc I genuinely do. I don't empathise with the batshit crazy conspiracy theorists.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 27, 2021, 03:36:12 PM
Quote from: Last Man on October 27, 2021, 02:55:38 PM
Reasoned debate is no longer a thing. "If you don't share all my beliefs you are my enemy and a personal threat to me and society at large".  The natural product of censorship and cancel culture is that we become increasingly tribal and poor humans who lack emotional intelligence(on both sides) may get on like this. Not exactly shocking.

Last man, pre Covid times would you have been able to have any reasoned debate with an Anti-Vaxer? Those who refused to give their children a multitude of vaccines? No you wouldn't. They were seen as lunatics ,  and I'm sure that's how most if not all the new recruits to the anti-vax brigade viewed them. There's a few anti-vaxers on here, any of them willing to share their views on anti-vaxers pre Covid?

IMO I don't see any difference now. You either trust the medical experts or you don't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 03:25:20 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2021, 01:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 26, 2021, 10:43:11 PM
The true face of the extreme right wing "anti-lockdown", anti-vaccine "movement", even though it refuses to show its face.

https://twitter.com/culladgh/status/1450103964876353538
Manipulated gobshites

In fairness they are gobshites. Don't like that culture of harassment & videoing. They remind me of Antifa Bellends.  How are they manipulated though? One could argue that the ones been manipulated, are the healthy under 50's  who will go on to take multiple Covid booster jabs. I said it before the efficacy of these vaccines is poor, science must to better.

I'll be honest - there's a few people I know of and I know they have issues with their mental health and they are starting to buy into a lot of the anti vax nonsense. Now some people may have genuine concerns on the vaccine and that is fine but it is the batshit crazy they are out to control you and to get you and this has been the plan all along. I'll tell you what - based on some stuff I hear sometimes I wish my company could get the project manager who conspired to manage the whole pandemic.

* Just to be clear the pandemic has been a big struggle for lots of people but for me there are some people who have really struggled on a mental health level and are completely scundered with it. I believe there are "anti vax propagandists" who are trying to tap into this. That really concerns me. The people who are doing the harassing here will mainly be people who have been sucked into it not the people who are "driving" it.

I empathise with people who are struggling and who don't buy into the vaccine etc I genuinely do. I don't empathise with the batshit crazy conspiracy theorists.

I agree with most of what you said above & they are people (very well educated (whose opinions deserve respect) who have genuine concerns over a new vaccine) however one could argue its a conspiracy theory to suggest anti vax people are targeting vulnerable people to ascend their agenda.
You should have no issues with people who have reasoned medical concerns about taking the vaccine. Gob da's who lifted a dying man (who could have been saved)  out of a hospital in LUH on the other hand need a hammering. The no vaccine no job agenda are another shower of dangerous yokes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on October 27, 2021, 03:54:06 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 03:25:20 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2021, 01:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 26, 2021, 10:43:11 PM
The true face of the extreme right wing "anti-lockdown", anti-vaccine "movement", even though it refuses to show its face.

https://twitter.com/culladgh/status/1450103964876353538
Manipulated gobshites

In fairness they are gobshites. Don't like that culture of harassment & videoing. They remind me of Antifa Bellends.  How are they manipulated though? One could argue that the ones been manipulated, are the healthy under 50's  who will go on to take multiple Covid booster jabs. I said it before the efficacy of these vaccines is poor, science must to better.

I'll be honest - there's a few people I know of and I know they have issues with their mental health and they are starting to buy into a lot of the anti vax nonsense. Now some people may have genuine concerns on the vaccine and that is fine but it is the batshit crazy they are out to control you and to get you and this has been the plan all along. I'll tell you what - based on some stuff I hear sometimes I wish my company could get the project manager who conspired to manage the whole pandemic.

* Just to be clear the pandemic has been a big struggle for lots of people but for me there are some people who have really struggled on a mental health level and are completely scundered with it. I believe there are "anti vax propagandists" who are trying to tap into this. That really concerns me. The people who are doing the harassing here will mainly be people who have been sucked into it not the people who are "driving" it.

I empathise with people who are struggling and who don't buy into the vaccine etc I genuinely do. I don't empathise with the batshit crazy conspiracy theorists.

I agree with most of what you said above & they are people (very well educated (whose opinions deserve respect) who have genuine concerns over a new vaccine) however one could argue its a conspiracy theory to suggest anti vax people are targeting vulnerable people to ascend their agenda.
You should have no issues with people who have reasoned medical concerns about taking the vaccine. Gob da's who lifted a dying man (who could have been saved)  out of a hospital in LUH on the other hand need a hammering. The no vaccine no job agenda are another shower of dangerous yokes.

Who are they a danger to?

Don't get me wrong, everyone has a right to decide what goes into their bodies but there's implications with the choices we make.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 04:03:31 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 27, 2021, 03:54:06 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 03:25:20 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2021, 01:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 26, 2021, 10:43:11 PM
The true face of the extreme right wing "anti-lockdown", anti-vaccine "movement", even though it refuses to show its face.

https://twitter.com/culladgh/status/1450103964876353538
Manipulated gobshites

In fairness they are gobshites. Don't like that culture of harassment & videoing. They remind me of Antifa Bellends.  How are they manipulated though? One could argue that the ones been manipulated, are the healthy under 50's  who will go on to take multiple Covid booster jabs. I said it before the efficacy of these vaccines is poor, science must to better.

I'll be honest - there's a few people I know of and I know they have issues with their mental health and they are starting to buy into a lot of the anti vax nonsense. Now some people may have genuine concerns on the vaccine and that is fine but it is the batshit crazy they are out to control you and to get you and this has been the plan all along. I'll tell you what - based on some stuff I hear sometimes I wish my company could get the project manager who conspired to manage the whole pandemic.

* Just to be clear the pandemic has been a big struggle for lots of people but for me there are some people who have really struggled on a mental health level and are completely scundered with it. I believe there are "anti vax propagandists" who are trying to tap into this. That really concerns me. The people who are doing the harassing here will mainly be people who have been sucked into it not the people who are "driving" it.

I empathise with people who are struggling and who don't buy into the vaccine etc I genuinely do. I don't empathise with the batshit crazy conspiracy theorists.

I agree with most of what you said above & they are people (very well educated (whose opinions deserve respect) who have genuine concerns over a new vaccine) however one could argue its a conspiracy theory to suggest anti vax people are targeting vulnerable people to ascend their agenda.
You should have no issues with people who have reasoned medical concerns about taking the vaccine. Gob da's who lifted a dying man (who could have been saved)  out of a hospital in LUH on the other hand need a hammering. The no vaccine no job agenda are another shower of dangerous yokes.

Who are they a danger to?

Don't get me wrong, everyone has a right to decide what goes into their bodies but there's implications with the choices we make.

A danger to society in general terms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 04:13:02 PM
Not everyone who had doubts about vaccines, or questions things are "anti vax nutters". The media just like to peddle this  crap.

It's all to shift the blame from the failures of  government/politicians/vaccines  onto the unvaccinated. They're obviously the ones keeping this all going, and stopping the rest of us from getting back to a leading a normal life.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 04:18:34 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 03:25:20 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2021, 01:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 26, 2021, 10:43:11 PM
The true face of the extreme right wing "anti-lockdown", anti-vaccine "movement", even though it refuses to show its face.

https://twitter.com/culladgh/status/1450103964876353538
Manipulated gobshites

In fairness they are gobshites. Don't like that culture of harassment & videoing. They remind me of Antifa Bellends.  How are they manipulated though? One could argue that the ones been manipulated, are the healthy under 50's  who will go on to take multiple Covid booster jabs. I said it before the efficacy of these vaccines is poor, science must to better.

I'll be honest - there's a few people I know of and I know they have issues with their mental health and they are starting to buy into a lot of the anti vax nonsense. Now some people may have genuine concerns on the vaccine and that is fine but it is the batshit crazy they are out to control you and to get you and this has been the plan all along. I'll tell you what - based on some stuff I hear sometimes I wish my company could get the project manager who conspired to manage the whole pandemic.

* Just to be clear the pandemic has been a big struggle for lots of people but for me there are some people who have really struggled on a mental health level and are completely scundered with it. I believe there are "anti vax propagandists" who are trying to tap into this. That really concerns me. The people who are doing the harassing here will mainly be people who have been sucked into it not the people who are "driving" it.

I empathise with people who are struggling and who don't buy into the vaccine etc I genuinely do. I don't empathise with the batshit crazy conspiracy theorists.

I agree with most of what you said above & they are people (very well educated (whose opinions deserve respect) who have genuine concerns over a new vaccine) however one could argue its a conspiracy theory to suggest anti vax people are targeting vulnerable people to ascend their agenda.
You should have no issues with people who have reasoned medical concerns about taking the vaccine. Gob da's who lifted a dying man (who could have been saved)  out of a hospital in LUH on the other hand need a hammering. The no vaccine no job agenda are another shower of dangerous yokes.

I don't have any issue with people with genuine medical concerns about it. It's the batshit crazy control ones so tbh I agree with you mostly .

The people that are buying into the batshit crazy stuff concerns me and whether or not there are people targeting vulnerable.

When you start reading about  poor guy who's wife died not being emotional enough when interviewed and how the truth was going to come out that week about how she died (this was the woman in Derry who died after having a child) you do start to wonder what the hell is going on. (incidentally no "truth" has come out)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 04:33:07 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 04:18:34 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 03:25:20 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2021, 01:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 26, 2021, 10:43:11 PM
The true face of the extreme right wing "anti-lockdown", anti-vaccine "movement", even though it refuses to show its face.

https://twitter.com/culladgh/status/1450103964876353538
Manipulated gobshites

In fairness they are gobshites. Don't like that culture of harassment & videoing. They remind me of Antifa Bellends.  How are they manipulated though? One could argue that the ones been manipulated, are the healthy under 50's  who will go on to take multiple Covid booster jabs. I said it before the efficacy of these vaccines is poor, science must to better.

I'll be honest - there's a few people I know of and I know they have issues with their mental health and they are starting to buy into a lot of the anti vax nonsense. Now some people may have genuine concerns on the vaccine and that is fine but it is the batshit crazy they are out to control you and to get you and this has been the plan all along. I'll tell you what - based on some stuff I hear sometimes I wish my company could get the project manager who conspired to manage the whole pandemic.

* Just to be clear the pandemic has been a big struggle for lots of people but for me there are some people who have really struggled on a mental health level and are completely scundered with it. I believe there are "anti vax propagandists" who are trying to tap into this. That really concerns me. The people who are doing the harassing here will mainly be people who have been sucked into it not the people who are "driving" it.

I empathise with people who are struggling and who don't buy into the vaccine etc I genuinely do. I don't empathise with the batshit crazy conspiracy theorists.

I agree with most of what you said above & they are people (very well educated (whose opinions deserve respect) who have genuine concerns over a new vaccine) however one could argue its a conspiracy theory to suggest anti vax people are targeting vulnerable people to ascend their agenda.
You should have no issues with people who have reasoned medical concerns about taking the vaccine. Gob da's who lifted a dying man (who could have been saved)  out of a hospital in LUH on the other hand need a hammering. The no vaccine no job agenda are another shower of dangerous yokes.

I don't have any issue with people with genuine medical concerns about it. It's the batshit crazy control ones so tbh I agree with you mostly .

The people that are buying into the batshit crazy stuff concerns me and whether or not there are people targeting vulnerable.

When you start reading about  poor guy who's wife died not being emotional enough when interviewed and how the truth was going to come out that week about how she died (this was the woman in Derry who died after having a child) you do start to wonder what the hell is going on. (incidentally no "truth" has come out)

I'm interested to know an example  where someone might have genuine medical concerns about it, and  an example of what these so-called batshit crazy stuff might be?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on October 27, 2021, 04:43:59 PM
Like yourself Benny I find it hard to believe people could still have genuine medical concerns given the millions of vaccines that have now been administered around the world.

In fairness a simple google search will provide numerous "bat shit crazy" anti covid conspiracy nut jobs. Look up anything Gemma O'Doherty and/or John Waters have to say on the subject for example
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 04:57:14 PM
Batshit crazy = they're out to control us and this was always going to happen Benny. Simple as that. Also covid is a hoax and doesn't really exist. Hospitals have been empty all along and the numbers are all just made up. All that stuff and there is plenty of it. That is all batshit crazy.

The medical ones are really round risk. I don't buy the long term stuff but I don't see it as crazy either more fear which for me is fine. Every vaccine changes every year and how did any vaccine ever start. I get that some people see the risk of a vaccine higher than the risk of a virus depending on their risk category. There you have some criteria that are not batshit crazy. Some people put people into the selfish category - I personally don't.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on October 27, 2021, 05:54:58 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 04:13:02 PM
Not everyone who had doubts about vaccines, or questions things are "anti vax nutters". The media just like to peddle this  crap.

It's all to shift the blame from the failures of  government/politicians/vaccines  onto the unvaccinated. They're obviously the ones keeping this all going, and stopping the rest of us from getting back to a leading a normal life.

Sorry but the global pandemic is stopping us all from getting back to what you consider leading a normal life  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 27, 2021, 08:41:29 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 02:16:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2021, 01:51:12 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 27, 2021, 01:00:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 12:27:59 PM
Get a grip. If that was people confronting a politician for attending the NI centenary service,  collusion, women's rights etc, you'd be applauding them for confronting them head on. It's because it doesn't fit with your agenda, that you're calling for them to be arrested.

Get a grip? This is acceptable in your world Benny? This type of behaviour is disgusting and will escalate unless dealt with.

Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.
Have you got anything except dumb slogans?

Well, tell me, which part of the above  post is false?
Truth and falsity doesn't even come into it.

Because what you have done is just shout a load of utterly meaningless slogans and buzzwords.

There are no points or debate at all attached to these slogans and buzzwords.

The post is entirely empty of sense or meaning.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 27, 2021, 08:50:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 04:33:07 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 04:18:34 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 03:25:20 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2021, 01:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 26, 2021, 10:43:11 PM
The true face of the extreme right wing "anti-lockdown", anti-vaccine "movement", even though it refuses to show its face.

https://twitter.com/culladgh/status/1450103964876353538
Manipulated gobshites

In fairness they are gobshites. Don't like that culture of harassment & videoing. They remind me of Antifa Bellends.  How are they manipulated though? One could argue that the ones been manipulated, are the healthy under 50's  who will go on to take multiple Covid booster jabs. I said it before the efficacy of these vaccines is poor, science must to better.

I'll be honest - there's a few people I know of and I know they have issues with their mental health and they are starting to buy into a lot of the anti vax nonsense. Now some people may have genuine concerns on the vaccine and that is fine but it is the batshit crazy they are out to control you and to get you and this has been the plan all along. I'll tell you what - based on some stuff I hear sometimes I wish my company could get the project manager who conspired to manage the whole pandemic.

* Just to be clear the pandemic has been a big struggle for lots of people but for me there are some people who have really struggled on a mental health level and are completely scundered with it. I believe there are "anti vax propagandists" who are trying to tap into this. That really concerns me. The people who are doing the harassing here will mainly be people who have been sucked into it not the people who are "driving" it.

I empathise with people who are struggling and who don't buy into the vaccine etc I genuinely do. I don't empathise with the batshit crazy conspiracy theorists.

I agree with most of what you said above & they are people (very well educated (whose opinions deserve respect) who have genuine concerns over a new vaccine) however one could argue its a conspiracy theory to suggest anti vax people are targeting vulnerable people to ascend their agenda.
You should have no issues with people who have reasoned medical concerns about taking the vaccine. Gob da's who lifted a dying man (who could have been saved)  out of a hospital in LUH on the other hand need a hammering. The no vaccine no job agenda are another shower of dangerous yokes.

I don't have any issue with people with genuine medical concerns about it. It's the batshit crazy control ones so tbh I agree with you mostly .

The people that are buying into the batshit crazy stuff concerns me and whether or not there are people targeting vulnerable.

When you start reading about  poor guy who's wife died not being emotional enough when interviewed and how the truth was going to come out that week about how she died (this was the woman in Derry who died after having a child) you do start to wonder what the hell is going on. (incidentally no "truth" has come out)

I'm interested to know an example  where someone might have genuine medical concerns about it, and  an example of what these so-called batshit crazy stuff might be?
People do have genuine medical concerns about the vaccine. The vast majority of people who have genuine medical concerns do so because they choose to believe bullshit.

It doesn't mean their concerns for their health over getting vaccinated aren't genuine, just that they're based on bullshit.

I mean a huge percentage of Trump voters believe Biden is a communist. Their beliefs are genuine, but founded on utter bullshit.

No difference with those who refuse to get the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 09:10:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2021, 08:50:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 04:33:07 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 04:18:34 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 03:25:20 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2021, 01:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 26, 2021, 10:43:11 PM
The true face of the extreme right wing "anti-lockdown", anti-vaccine "movement", even though it refuses to show its face.

https://twitter.com/culladgh/status/1450103964876353538
Manipulated gobshites

In fairness they are gobshites. Don't like that culture of harassment & videoing. They remind me of Antifa Bellends.  How are they manipulated though? One could argue that the ones been manipulated, are the healthy under 50's  who will go on to take multiple Covid booster jabs. I said it before the efficacy of these vaccines is poor, science must to better.

I'll be honest - there's a few people I know of and I know they have issues with their mental health and they are starting to buy into a lot of the anti vax nonsense. Now some people may have genuine concerns on the vaccine and that is fine but it is the batshit crazy they are out to control you and to get you and this has been the plan all along. I'll tell you what - based on some stuff I hear sometimes I wish my company could get the project manager who conspired to manage the whole pandemic.

* Just to be clear the pandemic has been a big struggle for lots of people but for me there are some people who have really struggled on a mental health level and are completely scundered with it. I believe there are "anti vax propagandists" who are trying to tap into this. That really concerns me. The people who are doing the harassing here will mainly be people who have been sucked into it not the people who are "driving" it.

I empathise with people who are struggling and who don't buy into the vaccine etc I genuinely do. I don't empathise with the batshit crazy conspiracy theorists.

I agree with most of what you said above & they are people (very well educated (whose opinions deserve respect) who have genuine concerns over a new vaccine) however one could argue its a conspiracy theory to suggest anti vax people are targeting vulnerable people to ascend their agenda.
You should have no issues with people who have reasoned medical concerns about taking the vaccine. Gob da's who lifted a dying man (who could have been saved)  out of a hospital in LUH on the other hand need a hammering. The no vaccine no job agenda are another shower of dangerous yokes.

I don't have any issue with people with genuine medical concerns about it. It's the batshit crazy control ones so tbh I agree with you mostly .

The people that are buying into the batshit crazy stuff concerns me and whether or not there are people targeting vulnerable.

When you start reading about  poor guy who's wife died not being emotional enough when interviewed and how the truth was going to come out that week about how she died (this was the woman in Derry who died after having a child) you do start to wonder what the hell is going on. (incidentally no "truth" has come out)

I'm interested to know an example  where someone might have genuine medical concerns about it, and  an example of what these so-called batshit crazy stuff might be?
People do have genuine medical concerns about the vaccine. The vast majority of people who have genuine medical concerns do so because they choose to believe bullshit.

It doesn't mean their concerns for their health over getting vaccinated aren't genuine, just that they're based on bullshit.

I mean a huge percentage of Trump voters believe Biden is a communist. Their beliefs are genuine, but founded on utter bullshit.

No difference with those who refuse to get the vaccine.

Really? Tell that to the family of the BBC presenter who died from the vaccine

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/aug/26/bbc-presenter-lisa-shaw-died-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-complications-coroner-finds
(https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/aug/26/bbc-presenter-lisa-shaw-died-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-complications-coroner-finds)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 09:13:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2021, 08:41:29 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 02:16:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2021, 01:51:12 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 27, 2021, 01:00:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 12:27:59 PM
Get a grip. If that was people confronting a politician for attending the NI centenary service,  collusion, women's rights etc, you'd be applauding them for confronting them head on. It's because it doesn't fit with your agenda, that you're calling for them to be arrested.

Get a grip? This is acceptable in your world Benny? This type of behaviour is disgusting and will escalate unless dealt with.

Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.
Have you got anything except dumb slogans?

Well, tell me, which part of the above  post is false?
Truth and falsity doesn't even come into it.

Because what you have done is just shout a load of utterly meaningless slogans and buzzwords.

There are no points or debate at all attached to these slogans and buzzwords.

The post is entirely empty of sense or meaning.

If you say so. You keep that head of yours buried in the sand.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 27, 2021, 09:35:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 09:13:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2021, 08:41:29 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 02:16:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2021, 01:51:12 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 27, 2021, 01:00:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 12:27:59 PM
Get a grip. If that was people confronting a politician for attending the NI centenary service,  collusion, women's rights etc, you'd be applauding them for confronting them head on. It's because it doesn't fit with your agenda, that you're calling for them to be arrested.

Get a grip? This is acceptable in your world Benny? This type of behaviour is disgusting and will escalate unless dealt with.

Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.
Have you got anything except dumb slogans?

Well, tell me, which part of the above  post is false?
Truth and falsity doesn't even come into it.

Because what you have done is just shout a load of utterly meaningless slogans and buzzwords.

There are no points or debate at all attached to these slogans and buzzwords.

The post is entirely empty of sense or meaning.

If you say so. You keep that head of yours buried in the sand.
I have not buried anything in this pandemic, except my father.

You recited a bunch of empty slogans.

Empty slogans don't cut it. They're meaningless. They refuse to acknowledge any of the complexity, nuance, uncertainty and precarity of our current situation in favour of faux emotive, empty bluster.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 27, 2021, 09:39:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 09:10:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2021, 08:50:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 04:33:07 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 04:18:34 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 03:25:20 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2021, 01:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 26, 2021, 10:43:11 PM
The true face of the extreme right wing "anti-lockdown", anti-vaccine "movement", even though it refuses to show its face.

https://twitter.com/culladgh/status/1450103964876353538
Manipulated gobshites

In fairness they are gobshites. Don't like that culture of harassment & videoing. They remind me of Antifa Bellends.  How are they manipulated though? One could argue that the ones been manipulated, are the healthy under 50's  who will go on to take multiple Covid booster jabs. I said it before the efficacy of these vaccines is poor, science must to better.

I'll be honest - there's a few people I know of and I know they have issues with their mental health and they are starting to buy into a lot of the anti vax nonsense. Now some people may have genuine concerns on the vaccine and that is fine but it is the batshit crazy they are out to control you and to get you and this has been the plan all along. I'll tell you what - based on some stuff I hear sometimes I wish my company could get the project manager who conspired to manage the whole pandemic.

* Just to be clear the pandemic has been a big struggle for lots of people but for me there are some people who have really struggled on a mental health level and are completely scundered with it. I believe there are "anti vax propagandists" who are trying to tap into this. That really concerns me. The people who are doing the harassing here will mainly be people who have been sucked into it not the people who are "driving" it.

I empathise with people who are struggling and who don't buy into the vaccine etc I genuinely do. I don't empathise with the batshit crazy conspiracy theorists.

I agree with most of what you said above & they are people (very well educated (whose opinions deserve respect) who have genuine concerns over a new vaccine) however one could argue its a conspiracy theory to suggest anti vax people are targeting vulnerable people to ascend their agenda.
You should have no issues with people who have reasoned medical concerns about taking the vaccine. Gob da's who lifted a dying man (who could have been saved)  out of a hospital in LUH on the other hand need a hammering. The no vaccine no job agenda are another shower of dangerous yokes.

I don't have any issue with people with genuine medical concerns about it. It's the batshit crazy control ones so tbh I agree with you mostly .

The people that are buying into the batshit crazy stuff concerns me and whether or not there are people targeting vulnerable.

When you start reading about  poor guy who's wife died not being emotional enough when interviewed and how the truth was going to come out that week about how she died (this was the woman in Derry who died after having a child) you do start to wonder what the hell is going on. (incidentally no "truth" has come out)

I'm interested to know an example  where someone might have genuine medical concerns about it, and  an example of what these so-called batshit crazy stuff might be?
People do have genuine medical concerns about the vaccine. The vast majority of people who have genuine medical concerns do so because they choose to believe bullshit.

It doesn't mean their concerns for their health over getting vaccinated aren't genuine, just that they're based on bullshit.

I mean a huge percentage of Trump voters believe Biden is a communist. Their beliefs are genuine, but founded on utter bullshit.

No difference with those who refuse to get the vaccine.

Really? Tell that to the family of the BBC presenter who died from the vaccine

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/aug/26/bbc-presenter-lisa-shaw-died-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-complications-coroner-finds
(https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/aug/26/bbc-presenter-lisa-shaw-died-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-complications-coroner-finds)
Yes, people have died from the vaccine, extremely few people, a squillionth of the amount that have died from Covid.

The risk/benefit analysis is clear for all ages. It categorically favours getting the vaccine. The risk of death and serious illness from getting Covid is far, far higher than it is from getting vaccinated.

And every person who refuses to get vaccinated is helping to keep society trapped in this nightmare.

Whereas every person who gets vaccinated is doing something to get us out of it.

I was delighted to get jabbed again on Saturday for the flu. The side effect from that vaccine lasted longer than for the Covid ones, but again, it wasn't much. A very small price to pay for extra protection for myself, loved ones and others.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 27, 2021, 10:08:14 PM
so holohan now saying vaccines not working as good as they hoped  id also say its not far fetched to think big pharma could have lied just to make a quick buck
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 27, 2021, 10:11:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2021, 09:39:09 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 09:10:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2021, 08:50:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 04:33:07 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 04:18:34 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 03:44:20 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 27, 2021, 03:25:20 PM
Quote from: Rudi on October 27, 2021, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2021, 01:48:09 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 26, 2021, 10:43:11 PM
The true face of the extreme right wing "anti-lockdown", anti-vaccine "movement", even though it refuses to show its face.

https://twitter.com/culladgh/status/1450103964876353538
Manipulated gobshites

In fairness they are gobshites. Don't like that culture of harassment & videoing. They remind me of Antifa Bellends.  How are they manipulated though? One could argue that the ones been manipulated, are the healthy under 50's  who will go on to take multiple Covid booster jabs. I said it before the efficacy of these vaccines is poor, science must to better.

I'll be honest - there's a few people I know of and I know they have issues with their mental health and they are starting to buy into a lot of the anti vax nonsense. Now some people may have genuine concerns on the vaccine and that is fine but it is the batshit crazy they are out to control you and to get you and this has been the plan all along. I'll tell you what - based on some stuff I hear sometimes I wish my company could get the project manager who conspired to manage the whole pandemic.

* Just to be clear the pandemic has been a big struggle for lots of people but for me there are some people who have really struggled on a mental health level and are completely scundered with it. I believe there are "anti vax propagandists" who are trying to tap into this. That really concerns me. The people who are doing the harassing here will mainly be people who have been sucked into it not the people who are "driving" it.

I empathise with people who are struggling and who don't buy into the vaccine etc I genuinely do. I don't empathise with the batshit crazy conspiracy theorists.

I agree with most of what you said above & they are people (very well educated (whose opinions deserve respect) who have genuine concerns over a new vaccine) however one could argue its a conspiracy theory to suggest anti vax people are targeting vulnerable people to ascend their agenda.
You should have no issues with people who have reasoned medical concerns about taking the vaccine. Gob da's who lifted a dying man (who could have been saved)  out of a hospital in LUH on the other hand need a hammering. The no vaccine no job agenda are another shower of dangerous yokes.

I don't have any issue with people with genuine medical concerns about it. It's the batshit crazy control ones so tbh I agree with you mostly .

The people that are buying into the batshit crazy stuff concerns me and whether or not there are people targeting vulnerable.

When you start reading about  poor guy who's wife died not being emotional enough when interviewed and how the truth was going to come out that week about how she died (this was the woman in Derry who died after having a child) you do start to wonder what the hell is going on. (incidentally no "truth" has come out)

I'm interested to know an example  where someone might have genuine medical concerns about it, and  an example of what these so-called batshit crazy stuff might be?
People do have genuine medical concerns about the vaccine. The vast majority of people who have genuine medical concerns do so because they choose to believe bullshit.

It doesn't mean their concerns for their health over getting vaccinated aren't genuine, just that they're based on bullshit.

I mean a huge percentage of Trump voters believe Biden is a communist. Their beliefs are genuine, but founded on utter bullshit.

No difference with those who refuse to get the vaccine.

Really? Tell that to the family of the BBC presenter who died from the vaccine

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/aug/26/bbc-presenter-lisa-shaw-died-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-complications-coroner-finds
(https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/aug/26/bbc-presenter-lisa-shaw-died-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-complications-coroner-finds)
Yes, people have died from the vaccine, extremely few people, a squillionth of the amount that have died from Covid.

The risk/benefit analysis is clear for all ages. It categorically favours getting the vaccine. The risk of death and serious illness from getting Covid is far, far higher than it is from getting vaccinated.

And every person who refuses to get vaccinated is helping to keep society trapped in this nightmare.

Whereas every person who gets vaccinated is doing something to get us out of it.

I was delighted to get jabbed again on Saturday for the flu. The side effect from that vaccine lasted longer than for the Covid ones, but again, it wasn't much. A very small price to pay for extra protection for myself, loved ones and others.

and what about the vaccinated gallivanters who are gallivanting all over the country are they now free of all guilt and sin just because they took the new blood of christ  a unvaccinated  hermit is less transmissible than a vaccinated galivanater
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 27, 2021, 10:15:48 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 27, 2021, 10:08:14 PM
so holohan now saying vaccines not working as good as they hoped  id also say its not far fetched to think big pharma could have lied just to make a quick buck
Yes it is, and it's also demonstrably completely untrue, given the overwhelming evidence the vaccines work. They are saving millions of lives.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 27, 2021, 10:18:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2021, 10:15:48 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 27, 2021, 10:08:14 PM
so holohan now saying vaccines not working as good as they hoped  id also say its not far fetched to think big pharma could have lied just to make a quick buck
Yes it is, and it's also demonstrably completely untrue, given the overwhelming evidence the vaccines work. They are saving millions of lives.

i never said it did not work holohan said they not working as good as expected holohans words not mine
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 27, 2021, 10:42:37 PM
that's not what he said... read what he said again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dublin7 on October 27, 2021, 11:51:09 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 27, 2021, 10:18:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 27, 2021, 10:15:48 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 27, 2021, 10:08:14 PM
so holohan now saying vaccines not working as good as they hoped  id also say its not far fetched to think big pharma could have lied just to make a quick buck
Yes it is, and it's also demonstrably completely untrue, given the overwhelming evidence the vaccines work. They are saving millions of lives.

i never said it did not work holohan said they not working as good as expected holohans words not mine

Go then I'll bite. Why do you think big pharma lied to everyone about their vaccines not working just to make a quick buck?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on October 28, 2021, 12:58:12 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.

The state of this.

Machiavellian super villains and bumbling goons. All at the same time.

This the distilled essence of why you are a gobshite. You still haven't figured out what you're angry about. You're just angry.

It's pathetic. And hilarious. And scary, because there's loads of other stupid angry gobshites just like you out there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 28, 2021, 04:34:45 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/VekiB71/status/1451842437169573891
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 28, 2021, 09:23:17 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 28, 2021, 12:58:12 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.

The state of this.

Machiavellian super villains and bumbling goons. All at the same time.

This the distilled essence of why you are a gobshite. You still haven't figured out what you're angry about. You're just angry.

It's pathetic. And hilarious. And scary, because there's loads of other stupid angry gobshites just like you out there.

No no, you're right. Politicians did/are doing a great job. Their rules make/made perfect sense. Nothing to see here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 28, 2021, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 28, 2021, 09:23:17 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 28, 2021, 12:58:12 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.

The state of this.

Machiavellian super villains and bumbling goons. All at the same time.

This the distilled essence of why you are a gobshite. You still haven't figured out what you're angry about. You're just angry.

It's pathetic. And hilarious. And scary, because there's loads of other stupid angry gobshites just like you out there.

No no, you're right. Politicians did/are doing a great job. Their rules make/made perfect sense. Nothing to see here.
More shouting.

Given you've been consistently pro-let it rip I presume you think Donald Trump, Ron De Santis, Boris Johnson, Jair Bolsonaro, Viktor Orban and Narendra Modi have all done great jobs?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 28, 2021, 09:39:31 AM
Genuinely Benny I don't know what you believe here. You obviously don't believe in something or everything? What do you believe in and not believe in with regard to Covid? I would genuinely love to know but from your posts it is pretty much impossible to tell.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on October 28, 2021, 09:40:35 AM
Vaccines are not the essence of perfection. Sometimes they have to be iterated.
What we do know is that the rate of mortality and rate of ICU admittance of the non-vaccinated are significantly higher.

"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers."

― Thomas Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on October 28, 2021, 10:44:36 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2021, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 28, 2021, 09:23:17 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 28, 2021, 12:58:12 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.

The state of this.

Machiavellian super villains and bumbling goons. All at the same time.

This the distilled essence of why you are a gobshite. You still haven't figured out what you're angry about. You're just angry.

It's pathetic. And hilarious. And scary, because there's loads of other stupid angry gobshites just like you out there.

No no, you're right. Politicians did/are doing a great job. Their rules make/made perfect sense. Nothing to see here.
More shouting.

Given you've been consistently pro-let it rip I presume you think Donald Trump, Ron De Santis, Boris Johnson, Jair Bolsonaro, Viktor Orban and Narendra Modi have all done great jobs?

And where have I said that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on October 28, 2021, 12:17:32 PM
https://www.thejournal.ie/covid-19-icu-bed-capacity-ireland-5585869-Oct2021/

The citizens have done their part at this stage.

The HSE had 2 years to increase capacity in the system, Covid or no Covid and they did f**k all. Overpaid muppets.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 28, 2021, 12:36:18 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 28, 2021, 10:44:36 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2021, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 28, 2021, 09:23:17 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 28, 2021, 12:58:12 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.

The state of this.

Machiavellian super villains and bumbling goons. All at the same time.

This the distilled essence of why you are a gobshite. You still haven't figured out what you're angry about. You're just angry.

It's pathetic. And hilarious. And scary, because there's loads of other stupid angry gobshites just like you out there.

No no, you're right. Politicians did/are doing a great job. Their rules make/made perfect sense. Nothing to see here.
More shouting.

Given you've been consistently pro-let it rip I presume you think Donald Trump, Ron De Santis, Boris Johnson, Jair Bolsonaro, Viktor Orban and Narendra Modi have all done great jobs?

And where have I said that?
Well I'll put it this way:

You are anti-vaccine. You have continually spread doubt as to the effectiveness of the vaccine and pushed conspiracy theory as regards the vaccine.

You recite right-wing US libertarian rhetoric about vaccination being a "personal choice", as if it is no more serious than a choice as to whether you get your ears pierced.

All of that is a total carte blanche for anti-vaxxers to spread their disinformation and for low vaccination uptake in society.

Low vaccination uptake means either i) mass death in a let it rip situation or ii) lockdown forever.

I don't think you're in favour of lockdown forever, so logically it stands to reason that you would be in favour of the alternative.

Or you're happy to freeload on the backs of the efforts of the majority of people who do take the responsible decision to get vaccinated, while refusing to do so yourself.

The future of our societies depends on mass vaccination. The alternative is Romania, and Covid deaths above 500 daily.

You can bleat all you want about politicians in general, and believe me I do, in my own way. But not in the conspiracy-laden tones of faux emotive bluster you do.

There is no conspiracy. There is a deadly virus and no amount of magical thinking will make it go away.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 28, 2021, 12:43:24 PM
Quote from: highorlow on October 28, 2021, 12:17:32 PM
https://www.thejournal.ie/covid-19-icu-bed-capacity-ireland-5585869-Oct2021/

The citizens have done their part at this stage.

The HSE had 2 years to increase capacity in the system, Covid or no Covid and they did f**k all. Overpaid muppets.
Wasn't exactly a load of  unemployed or under used ICU specialists around the world.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 28, 2021, 01:27:28 PM
Jaysus - glad you're ok.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on October 28, 2021, 01:44:25 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 28, 2021, 01:27:28 PM
Jaysus - glad you're ok.
+1
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on October 28, 2021, 01:51:51 PM
+2.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on October 28, 2021, 01:54:14 PM
Quote from: clarshack on October 28, 2021, 01:25:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2021, 12:36:18 PM
There is no conspiracy. There is a deadly virus and no amount of magical thinking will make it go away.

I can confirm this with my own recent experience. Ironically one of my last posts in this thread was that I was coming off the fence with regards to the vaccine and would be getting it but unfortunately I didn't get jabbed in time and I was struck down by this horrible virus in early October and recently spent just over a week in hospital battling it. It actually wasn't until about Day 12 of contracting the virus that I took a real turn for the worse with serious breathing difficulties and in the first 48-72 hours in hospital there were times I thought that I had seen the last of family and friends. I was on a CPAP machine for most of the week and I was also given a Tocilizumab which stopped my immune system from continuing to inflame my lungs and it was those 2 methods that saved me and thankfully I'm back home recovering and getting better/stronger as each day goes by. Hopefully I won't suffer much from long covid but I've learned a very hard and valuable lesson with this virus and I will never be complacent with it ever again and neither should anyone else for that matter.

Glad to hear you came through it. Best of luck in your continuing recovery!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 28, 2021, 02:40:38 PM
The point is that now with things open almost everyone will come into contact with Covid and Delta is very infectious, so without a vaccine you are very likely to get it. You than have a very wide range of outcomes, from hardly notice to hospitalisation. The vaccine reduces the chances of getting it, but it definitely reduces the probably of a bad end outcome.
On the good news front, a long established anti-depressant drug fluvoxamine has been found to reduce hospitalisation of unvaccinated patients by one third, so this will provide another path for treatment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 28, 2021, 02:59:00 PM
Quote from: clarshack on October 28, 2021, 01:25:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2021, 12:36:18 PM
There is no conspiracy. There is a deadly virus and no amount of magical thinking will make it go away.

I can confirm this with my own recent experience. Ironically one of my last posts in this thread was that I was coming off the fence with regards to the vaccine and would be getting it but unfortunately I didn't get jabbed in time and I was struck down by this horrible virus in early October and recently spent just over a week in hospital battling it. It actually wasn't until about Day 12 of contracting the virus that I took a real turn for the worse with serious breathing difficulties and in the first 48-72 hours in hospital there were times I thought that I had seen the last of family and friends. I was on a CPAP machine for most of the week and I was also given a Tocilizumab which stopped my immune system from continuing to inflame my lungs and it was those 2 methods that saved me and thankfully I'm back home recovering and getting better/stronger as each day goes by. Hopefully I won't suffer much from long covid but I've learned a very hard and valuable lesson with this virus and I will never be complacent with it ever again and neither should anyone else for that matter.

glad you are OK..  if you don't mind had you any pre existing  health conditions and what age are you... I know they are personal enough questions but if you had no pre conditions and healthy  it should be a real eye opener.

apologies if this is asking to personal questions
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 28, 2021, 03:37:50 PM
Best wishes with your recovery clarshack.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 28, 2021, 05:08:48 PM
Quote from: clarshack on October 28, 2021, 01:25:40 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2021, 12:36:18 PM
There is no conspiracy. There is a deadly virus and no amount of magical thinking will make it go away.

I can confirm this with my own recent experience. Ironically one of my last posts in this thread was that I was coming off the fence with regards to the vaccine and would be getting it but unfortunately I didn't get jabbed in time and I was struck down by this horrible virus in early October and recently spent just over a week in hospital battling it. It actually wasn't until about Day 12 of contracting the virus that I took a real turn for the worse with serious breathing difficulties and in the first 48-72 hours in hospital there were times I thought that I had seen the last of family and friends. I was on a CPAP machine for most of the week and I was also given a Tocilizumab which stopped my immune system from continuing to inflame my lungs and it was those 2 methods that saved me and thankfully I'm back home recovering and getting better/stronger as each day goes by. Hopefully I won't suffer much from long covid but I've learned a very hard and valuable lesson with this virus and I will never be complacent with it ever again and neither should anyone else for that matter.

No way Clarshack! Glad you are on the mend lad. Remember that post well. Best of luck and keep positive. If it does linger for a while, you'll battle through it. One of my closest friends battled Long Covid, did have it tight but she is now back to about 95%. Let us know how you're progressing and take care
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on October 28, 2021, 06:48:46 PM
All the best Clarshak.

My cousin is in ICU a week now , no change , hopefully he will pull through. He is 36
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 28, 2021, 08:09:25 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40731810.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


People vaccinated against Covid-19 are equally as infectious as the unvaccinated, according to new research.

The new study, published in  Lancet Infectious Diseases and one of the few to date to use detailed infection data from actual household transmission, suggests the peak viral load for both vaccinated and unvaccinated people who are positive for the coronavirus is broadly similar.

The research involved 621 people in the UK with mild Covid infections and found people who had received two doses of a vaccine can nevertheless pass that infection on to both vaccinated and unvaccinated fellow household members.

While infections in vaccinated people cleared more quickly, their viral load, the degree of infectiousness for both cohorts was similar.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 28, 2021, 08:10:29 PM
so going by that we need to shut the pubs vaccines are giving people a false sense of  security
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: southtyronegael on October 28, 2021, 10:10:52 PM
Glad you are home and ok clarshack, and I hope all the nurses and staff who had to look after you in hospital because you couldn't be bothered getting vaccinated are ok too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on October 28, 2021, 11:02:20 PM
Quote from: southtyronegael on October 28, 2021, 10:10:52 PM
Glad you are home and ok clarshack, and I hope all the nurses and staff who had to look after you in hospital because you couldn't be bothered getting vaccinated are ok too.
surely the staff are vaccinated?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2021, 11:07:44 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 28, 2021, 08:09:25 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40731810.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


People vaccinated against Covid-19 are equally as infectious as the unvaccinated, according to new research.

The new study, published in  Lancet Infectious Diseases and one of the few to date to use detailed infection data from actual household transmission, suggests the peak viral load for both vaccinated and unvaccinated people who are positive for the coronavirus is broadly similar.

The research involved 621 people in the UK with mild Covid infections and found people who had received two doses of a vaccine can nevertheless pass that infection on to both vaccinated and unvaccinated fellow household members.

While infections in vaccinated people cleared more quickly, their viral load, the degree of infectiousness for both cohorts was similar.

Professor Lalvani also said the study's results have underlined the importance of booster shots for those whose vaccine immunity has begun to wane with time, with the median length of time since vaccination for those who were infected being 37 days longer than for those who resisted the infection.

"We found that susceptibility to infection increased already within a few months after the second vaccine dose – so those eligible for Covid-19 booster shots should get them promptly," he said.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 28, 2021, 11:49:22 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 28, 2021, 08:09:25 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40731810.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


People vaccinated against Covid-19 are equally as infectious as the unvaccinated, according to new research.

The new study, published in  Lancet Infectious Diseases and one of the few to date to use detailed infection data from actual household transmission, suggests the peak viral load for both vaccinated and unvaccinated people who are positive for the coronavirus is broadly similar.

The research involved 621 people in the UK with mild Covid infections and found people who had received two doses of a vaccine can nevertheless pass that infection on to both vaccinated and unvaccinated fellow household members.

While infections in vaccinated people cleared more quickly, their viral load, the degree of infectiousness for both cohorts was similar.

Well that's that, time to move on with our lives now!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 29, 2021, 07:45:28 AM
A crazy alternative view here....

Maybe people should just get...

vaccinated?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 29, 2021, 11:08:02 AM
Yeah it kind of shows how different people interpret different bits of information too.

I think the stats say that the vaccine is making a significant difference. It is not the silver bullet everyone had hoped for but it is definitely making a big difference.

Hopefully research continues and it can just keep getting better.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on October 29, 2021, 11:28:05 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 29, 2021, 11:08:02 AM
Yeah it kind of shows how different people interpret different bits of information too.

I think the stats say that the vaccine is making a significant difference. It is not the silver bullet everyone had hoped for but it is definitely making a big difference.

Hopefully research continues and it can just keep getting better.
Realistically given the timeframe it was developed in and the amount of variants, the vaccine was never going to be perfect but it's clearly doing a very good job and people should get it. Hopefully in time better vaccines are developed that will give near enough total protection and are combined to be like the flu shot where the elderly/vulnerable can get a booster annually.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 29, 2021, 11:36:27 AM
Yeah exactly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 29, 2021, 01:38:08 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 28, 2021, 08:09:25 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40731810.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


People vaccinated against Covid-19 are equally as infectious as the unvaccinated, according to new research.


That research does not say that.

Classic example of appalling journalism right there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on October 29, 2021, 08:04:34 PM
lets see if these employer types who like to preach and act authoritarian on people preach what they talk about and cancel their christmas parties if not they are hypocrites christmas parties are not essential
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on October 29, 2021, 08:07:35 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 29, 2021, 11:28:05 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 29, 2021, 11:08:02 AM
Yeah it kind of shows how different people interpret different bits of information too.

I think the stats say that the vaccine is making a significant difference. It is not the silver bullet everyone had hoped for but it is definitely making a big difference.

Hopefully research continues and it can just keep getting better.
Realistically given the timeframe it was developed in and the amount of variants, the vaccine was never going to be perfect but it's clearly doing a very good job and people should get it. Hopefully in time better vaccines are developed that will give near enough total protection and are combined to be like the flu shot where the elderly/vulnerable can get a booster annually.

It's not unusual for vaccines to need 3 or 4 jabs. The hepatitis B vaccine requires 3. This vaccine looks to be incredibly successful for 3 doses so the more people that get the booster the better. I hope they roll it out to us 40 plus year olds soon as well.There are new vaccines being developed also which should cover any variants which could emerge.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 29, 2021, 08:20:27 PM
I see Citibank in the states now have being vaccinated as being a condition for employment. That may lead to a few court cases.

Yeah also hop for 40+ soon too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on October 29, 2021, 08:22:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2021, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 28, 2021, 09:23:17 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 28, 2021, 12:58:12 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.

The state of this.

Machiavellian super villains and bumbling goons. All at the same time.

This the distilled essence of why you are a gobshite. You still haven't figured out what you're angry about. You're just angry.

It's pathetic. And hilarious. And scary, because there's loads of other stupid angry gobshites just like you out there.

No no, you're right. Politicians did/are doing a great job. Their rules make/made perfect sense. Nothing to see here.
More shouting.

Given you've been consistently pro-let it rip I presume you think Donald Trump, Ron De Santis, Boris Johnson, Jair Bolsonaro, Viktor Orban and Narendra Modi have all done great jobs?
the US has more deaths in 21 than 20 with vaccines and joe Biden in charge. But it's someone's else's fault.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 29, 2021, 08:28:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 29, 2021, 08:22:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2021, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 28, 2021, 09:23:17 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 28, 2021, 12:58:12 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.

The state of this.

Machiavellian super villains and bumbling goons. All at the same time.

This the distilled essence of why you are a gobshite. You still haven't figured out what you're angry about. You're just angry.

It's pathetic. And hilarious. And scary, because there's loads of other stupid angry gobshites just like you out there.

No no, you're right. Politicians did/are doing a great job. Their rules make/made perfect sense. Nothing to see here.
More shouting.

Given you've been consistently pro-let it rip I presume you think Donald Trump, Ron De Santis, Boris Johnson, Jair Bolsonaro, Viktor Orban and Narendra Modi have all done great jobs?
the US has more deaths in 21 than 20 with vaccines and joe Biden in charge. But it's someone's else's fault.
Trump called the virus a hoax and deliberately hobbled the US's pandemic response. The Republican party is anti-vaxx. It's a flat earth cult.

They are political terrorists and murderers, utter human scum, reptiles.

With profound apologies to non-human scum and reptiles.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on October 29, 2021, 08:31:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 29, 2021, 08:28:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 29, 2021, 08:22:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2021, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 28, 2021, 09:23:17 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 28, 2021, 12:58:12 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.

The state of this.

Machiavellian super villains and bumbling goons. All at the same time.

This the distilled essence of why you are a gobshite. You still haven't figured out what you're angry about. You're just angry.

It's pathetic. And hilarious. And scary, because there's loads of other stupid angry gobshites just like you out there.

No no, you're right. Politicians did/are doing a great job. Their rules make/made perfect sense. Nothing to see here.
More shouting.

Given you've been consistently pro-let it rip I presume you think Donald Trump, Ron De Santis, Boris Johnson, Jair Bolsonaro, Viktor Orban and Narendra Modi have all done great jobs?
the US has more deaths in 21 than 20 with vaccines and joe Biden in charge. But it's someone's else's fault.
Trump called the virus a hoax and deliberately hobbled the US's pandemic response. The Republican party is anti-vaxx. It's a flat earth cult.

They are political terrorists and murderers, utter human scum, reptiles.

With profound apologies to non-human scum and reptiles.
Florida now has the best covid numbers in the US
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 29, 2021, 10:48:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 29, 2021, 08:31:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 29, 2021, 08:28:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 29, 2021, 08:22:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2021, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 28, 2021, 09:23:17 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 28, 2021, 12:58:12 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.

The state of this.

Machiavellian super villains and bumbling goons. All at the same time.

This the distilled essence of why you are a gobshite. You still haven't figured out what you're angry about. You're just angry.

It's pathetic. And hilarious. And scary, because there's loads of other stupid angry gobshites just like you out there.

No no, you're right. Politicians did/are doing a great job. Their rules make/made perfect sense. Nothing to see here.
More shouting.

Given you've been consistently pro-let it rip I presume you think Donald Trump, Ron De Santis, Boris Johnson, Jair Bolsonaro, Viktor Orban and Narendra Modi have all done great jobs?
the US has more deaths in 21 than 20 with vaccines and joe Biden in charge. But it's someone's else's fault.
Trump called the virus a hoax and deliberately hobbled the US's pandemic response. The Republican party is anti-vaxx. It's a flat earth cult.

They are political terrorists and murderers, utter human scum, reptiles.

With profound apologies to non-human scum and reptiles.
Florida now has the best covid numbers in the US
Poland didn't have many Jews being slaughtered in 1946.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 30, 2021, 08:20:10 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 29, 2021, 10:48:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 29, 2021, 08:31:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 29, 2021, 08:28:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 29, 2021, 08:22:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2021, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 28, 2021, 09:23:17 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 28, 2021, 12:58:12 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.

The state of this.

Machiavellian super villains and bumbling goons. All at the same time.

This the distilled essence of why you are a gobshite. You still haven't figured out what you're angry about. You're just angry.

It's pathetic. And hilarious. And scary, because there's loads of other stupid angry gobshites just like you out there.

No no, you're right. Politicians did/are doing a great job. Their rules make/made perfect sense. Nothing to see here.
More shouting.

Given you've been consistently pro-let it rip I presume you think Donald Trump, Ron De Santis, Boris Johnson, Jair Bolsonaro, Viktor Orban and Narendra Modi have all done great jobs?
the US has more deaths in 21 than 20 with vaccines and joe Biden in charge. But it's someone's else's fault.
Trump called the virus a hoax and deliberately hobbled the US's pandemic response. The Republican party is anti-vaxx. It's a flat earth cult.

They are political terrorists and murderers, utter human scum, reptiles.

With profound apologies to non-human scum and reptiles.
Florida now has the best covid numbers in the US
Poland didn't have many Jews being slaughtered in 1946.

Wtf is wrong with you?!

Also, Trump never ever ever called coronavirus a hoax. This is a lie spouted over and over by liberals. Politifact has debunked this and rated it "false".

Now who's a liar?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on October 30, 2021, 10:00:35 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 30, 2021, 08:20:10 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 29, 2021, 10:48:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 29, 2021, 08:31:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 29, 2021, 08:28:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 29, 2021, 08:22:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2021, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 28, 2021, 09:23:17 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 28, 2021, 12:58:12 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.

The state of this.

Machiavellian super villains and bumbling goons. All at the same time.

This the distilled essence of why you are a gobshite. You still haven't figured out what you're angry about. You're just angry.

It's pathetic. And hilarious. And scary, because there's loads of other stupid angry gobshites just like you out there.

No no, you're right. Politicians did/are doing a great job. Their rules make/made perfect sense. Nothing to see here.
More shouting.

Given you've been consistently pro-let it rip I presume you think Donald Trump, Ron De Santis, Boris Johnson, Jair Bolsonaro, Viktor Orban and Narendra Modi have all done great jobs?
the US has more deaths in 21 than 20 with vaccines and joe Biden in charge. But it's someone's else's fault.
Trump called the virus a hoax and deliberately hobbled the US's pandemic response. The Republican party is anti-vaxx. It's a flat earth cult.

They are political terrorists and murderers, utter human scum, reptiles.

With profound apologies to non-human scum and reptiles.
Florida now has the best covid numbers in the US
Poland didn't have many Jews being slaughtered in 1946.

Wtf is wrong with you?!

Also, Trump never ever ever called coronavirus a hoax. This is a lie spouted over and over by liberals. Politifact has debunked this and rated it "false".

Now who's a liar?

He certainly played it down massively and as a result he has the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans on his hands. Also probably plenty of people on these islands too who blindly followed him because he said what they wanted to hear/believe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on October 30, 2021, 11:34:55 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 30, 2021, 08:20:10 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 29, 2021, 10:48:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 29, 2021, 08:31:54 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 29, 2021, 08:28:05 PM
Quote from: Gmac on October 29, 2021, 08:22:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 28, 2021, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 28, 2021, 09:23:17 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on October 28, 2021, 12:58:12 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 27, 2021, 01:33:21 PM
Yes it probably will escalate. And it's not difficult to know why. People have had enough, enough of  being lied to, draconian measures that make absolutely no sense, the population screwed over, economy and livelihoods deliberately ruined by inept, spineless politicians.

The state of this.

Machiavellian super villains and bumbling goons. All at the same time.

This the distilled essence of why you are a gobshite. You still haven't figured out what you're angry about. You're just angry.

It's pathetic. And hilarious. And scary, because there's loads of other stupid angry gobshites just like you out there.

No no, you're right. Politicians did/are doing a great job. Their rules make/made perfect sense. Nothing to see here.
More shouting.

Given you've been consistently pro-let it rip I presume you think Donald Trump, Ron De Santis, Boris Johnson, Jair Bolsonaro, Viktor Orban and Narendra Modi have all done great jobs?
the US has more deaths in 21 than 20 with vaccines and joe Biden in charge. But it's someone's else's fault.
Trump called the virus a hoax and deliberately hobbled the US's pandemic response. The Republican party is anti-vaxx. It's a flat earth cult.

They are political terrorists and murderers, utter human scum, reptiles.

With profound apologies to non-human scum and reptiles.
Florida now has the best covid numbers in the US
Poland didn't have many Jews being slaughtered in 1946.

Wtf is wrong with you?!

Also, Trump never ever ever called coronavirus a hoax. This is a lie spouted over and over by liberals. Politifact has debunked this and rated it "false".

Now who's a liar?
You.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dec on October 31, 2021, 12:06:15 AM
I got a booster shot today. My first was the J&J one shot so I went for the Pfizer for the booster. No ill effects so far.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 31, 2021, 02:57:11 AM
The different shot for the booster is actually better. Research shows Pfizer after J&J is better than a second J&J.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
J&J or Jansen is the weakest of the Vax shots so taking any other product is an upgrade.

They are all disappointing in relation to the hype that originally surrounded them.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on October 31, 2021, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
J&J or Jansen is the weakest of the Vax shots so taking any other product is an upgrade.

They are all disappointing in relation to the hype that originally surrounded them.

I don't see how you can say that they're disappointing if you listened/listen to the scientists. Most scientists are amazed at how successful these vaccines have been. If you look at the success rate of vaccines for other illnesses then the covid vaccines have been incredibly good. Also it's not that unusual to require 3 or 4 shots for vaccines, hepatitis b requires 3 jabs. Real world evidence shows that the booster provides 96% protection against any symptomatic illness from covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 09:26:30 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 31, 2021, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
J&J or Jansen is the weakest of the Vax shots so taking any other product is an upgrade.

They are all disappointing in relation to the hype that originally surrounded them.

I don't see how you can say that they're disappointing if you listened/listen to the scientists. Most scientists are amazed at how successful these vaccines have been. If you look at the success rate of vaccines for other illnesses then the covid vaccines have been incredibly good. Also it's not that unusual to require 3 or 4 shots for vaccines, hepatitis b requires 3 jabs. Real world evidence shows that the booster provides 96% protection against any symptomatic illness from covid.

;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 31, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 09:26:30 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 31, 2021, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
J&J or Jansen is the weakest of the Vax shots so taking any other product is an upgrade.

They are all disappointing in relation to the hype that originally surrounded them.

I don't see how you can say that they're disappointing if you listened/listen to the scientists. Most scientists are amazed at how successful these vaccines have been. If you look at the success rate of vaccines for other illnesses then the covid vaccines have been incredibly good. Also it's not that unusual to require 3 or 4 shots for vaccines, hepatitis b requires 3 jabs. Real world evidence shows that the booster provides 96% protection against any symptomatic illness from covid.

;D

Real world evidence? Nonsense, YouTube and Facebook is where the real evidence lies
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 09:45:35 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 31, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 09:26:30 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 31, 2021, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
J&J or Jansen is the weakest of the Vax shots so taking any other product is an upgrade.

They are all disappointing in relation to the hype that originally surrounded them.

I don't see how you can say that they're disappointing if you listened/listen to the scientists. Most scientists are amazed at how successful these vaccines have been. If you look at the success rate of vaccines for other illnesses then the covid vaccines have been incredibly good. Also it's not that unusual to require 3 or 4 shots for vaccines, hepatitis b requires 3 jabs. Real world evidence shows that the booster provides 96% protection against any symptomatic illness from covid.

;D

Real world evidence? Nonsense, YouTube and Facebook is where the real evidence lies

Ah yes the real world. Or is that the new normal real world?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 31, 2021, 10:05:15 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 09:45:35 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 31, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 09:26:30 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 31, 2021, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
J&J or Jansen is the weakest of the Vax shots so taking any other product is an upgrade.

They are all disappointing in relation to the hype that originally surrounded them.

I don't see how you can say that they're disappointing if you listened/listen to the scientists. Most scientists are amazed at how successful these vaccines have been. If you look at the success rate of vaccines for other illnesses then the covid vaccines have been incredibly good. Also it's not that unusual to require 3 or 4 shots for vaccines, hepatitis b requires 3 jabs. Real world evidence shows that the booster provides 96% protection against any symptomatic illness from covid.

;D

Real world evidence? Nonsense, YouTube and Facebook is where the real evidence lies

Ah yes the real world. Or is that the new normal real world?

Exactly Mr Corr
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 31, 2021, 10:07:09 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 09:45:35 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 31, 2021, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 09:26:30 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 31, 2021, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
J&J or Jansen is the weakest of the Vax shots so taking any other product is an upgrade.

They are all disappointing in relation to the hype that originally surrounded them.

I don't see how you can say that they're disappointing if you listened/listen to the scientists. Most scientists are amazed at how successful these vaccines have been. If you look at the success rate of vaccines for other illnesses then the covid vaccines have been incredibly good. Also it's not that unusual to require 3 or 4 shots for vaccines, hepatitis b requires 3 jabs. Real world evidence shows that the booster provides 96% protection against any symptomatic illness from covid.

;D

Real world evidence? Nonsense, YouTube and Facebook is where the real evidence lies

Ah yes the real world. Or is that the new normal real world?

If you disagree then provide some information to the contrary.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 10:45:50 PM
Ah, you can only listen to so much shite in 18 months. It's a barrel of contradictions.

The lack of Balanced debate, of balanced coverage, It's quiet scary. Whether there is something going on or not.

Can some one question the over hyped stats, the crazy rules, the huge debt we are accumulating. 


The hook line and sinker that everybody follows instructions from our Government and other agencies.

I know we were f***ed up the a**e by the last financial melt down. We took our medicine without complaint.

This seems to be following the same plan.

It's all been downhill since the last time we voted No in the Lisbon Treaty and were forced to vote again on that same treaty!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 31, 2021, 11:28:16 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 10:45:50 PM
Can some one question the over hyped stats, the crazy rules, the huge debt we are accumulating. 


there is a debt, but what is the point of the economy if not to save people's lives.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:34:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 31, 2021, 11:28:16 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 10:45:50 PM
Can some one question the over hyped stats, the crazy rules, the huge debt we are accumulating. 


there is a debt, but what is the point of the economy if not to save people's lives.

It depends on the value of those lives. Covid survival seems to be more important than most other ailments!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:42:05 PM
I'm not going to say much more. Most have made up their minds and are following the narrative. And who knows they are probably following the correct path. But if you are in doubt - trust you instincts, Don't be afraid to question what does not seem right and don't become part of a lynch mob.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 31, 2021, 11:44:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:34:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 31, 2021, 11:28:16 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 10:45:50 PM
Can some one question the over hyped stats, the crazy rules, the huge debt we are accumulating. 


there is a debt, but what is the point of the economy if not to save people's lives.

It depends on the value of those lives. Covid survival seems to be more important than most other ailments!

Absolute rubbish, again. This will be my last post in reply to any of your utterings Bunker, but explain your knowledge or expertise on triaging acute illness. You are either on a windup or in need of a complete break from the Internet, for life
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:51:08 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 31, 2021, 11:44:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:34:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 31, 2021, 11:28:16 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 10:45:50 PM
Can some one question the over hyped stats, the crazy rules, the huge debt we are accumulating. 


there is a debt, but what is the point of the economy if not to save people's lives.

It depends on the value of those lives. Covid survival seems to be more important than most other ailments!

Absolute rubbish, again. This will be my last post in reply to any of your utterings Bunker, but explain your knowledge or expertise on triaging acute illness. You are either on a windup or in need of a complete break from the Internet, for life

Apologies, I don't mean to upset you. We'll just leave it there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 31, 2021, 11:56:29 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:51:08 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 31, 2021, 11:44:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:34:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 31, 2021, 11:28:16 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 10:45:50 PM
Can some one question the over hyped stats, the crazy rules, the huge debt we are accumulating. 


there is a debt, but what is the point of the economy if not to save people's lives.

It depends on the value of those lives. Covid survival seems to be more important than most other ailments!

Absolute rubbish, again. This will be my last post in reply to any of your utterings Bunker, but explain your knowledge or expertise on triaging acute illness. You are either on a windup or in need of a complete break from the Internet, for life

Apologies, I don't mean to upset you. We'll just leave it there.

OK, stay safe Bunker
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on November 01, 2021, 09:27:11 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:51:08 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 31, 2021, 11:44:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:34:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 31, 2021, 11:28:16 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 10:45:50 PM
Can some one question the over hyped stats, the crazy rules, the huge debt we are accumulating. 


there is a debt, but what is the point of the economy if not to save people's lives.

It depends on the value of those lives. Covid survival seems to be more important than most other ailments!

Absolute rubbish, again. This will be my last post in reply to any of your utterings Bunker, but explain your knowledge or expertise on triaging acute illness. You are either on a windup or in need of a complete break from the Internet, for life

Apologies, I don't mean to upset you. We'll just leave it there.

I didn't mean to hurt you
I'm sorry that I made you cry
Oh my I didn't want to hurt you
I'm just a jealous guy
:D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 01, 2021, 10:41:10 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
J&J or Jansen is the weakest of the Vax shots so taking any other product is an upgrade.

They are all disappointing in relation to the hype that originally surrounded them.
It's a global pandemic. Vaccination reduces the risk of hospitalisation and death but as long as there are parts of the world where Covid is running rampant and causing  the developments of new variants , they won't produce miracles.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on November 01, 2021, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 01, 2021, 09:27:11 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:51:08 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 31, 2021, 11:44:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:34:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 31, 2021, 11:28:16 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 10:45:50 PM
Can some one question the over hyped stats, the crazy rules, the huge debt we are accumulating. 


there is a debt, but what is the point of the economy if not to save people's lives.

It depends on the value of those lives. Covid survival seems to be more important than most other ailments!

Absolute rubbish, again. This will be my last post in reply to any of your utterings Bunker, but explain your knowledge or expertise on triaging acute illness. You are either on a windup or in need of a complete break from the Internet, for life

Apologies, I don't mean to upset you. We'll just leave it there.

I didn't mean to hurt you
I'm sorry that I made you cry
Oh my I didn't want to hurt you
I'm just a jealous guy
:D

I was dreaming of the past
And my heart was beating fast
I began to lose control
I began to lose control.......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 01, 2021, 06:05:04 PM
Cases growing in the 26 counties now, there are a lot more than most European countries with good vaccination coverage. People are getting a bit careless.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 01, 2021, 06:05:04 PM
Cases growing in the 26 counties now, there are a lot more than most European countries with good vaccination coverage. People are getting a bit careless.

I think a total lockdown will be needed before Christmas.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 31, 2021, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
J&J or Jansen is the weakest of the Vax shots so taking any other product is an upgrade.

They are all disappointing in relation to the hype that originally surrounded them.

I don't see how you can say that they're disappointing if you listened/listen to the scientists. Most scientists are amazed at how successful these vaccines have been. If you look at the success rate of vaccines for other illnesses then the covid vaccines have been incredibly good. Also it's not that unusual to require 3 or 4 shots for vaccines, hepatitis b requires 3 jabs. Real world evidence shows that the booster provides 96% protection against any symptomatic illness from covid.

And in most cases a 4th vaccine a year later if titres are low.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 31, 2021, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
J&J or Jansen is the weakest of the Vax shots so taking any other product is an upgrade.

They are all disappointing in relation to the hype that originally surrounded them.

I don't see how you can say that they're disappointing if you listened/listen to the scientists. Most scientists are amazed at how successful these vaccines have been. If you look at the success rate of vaccines for other illnesses then the covid vaccines have been incredibly good. Also it's not that unusual to require 3 or 4 shots for vaccines, hepatitis b requires 3 jabs. Real world evidence shows that the booster provides 96% protection against any symptomatic illness from covid.

And in most cases a 4th vaccine a year later if titres are low.
who gets that vaccine? 
Do you need it to eat a burger or have a beer ?
Does it work after the fourth shot or we don't know .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2021, 06:59:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 31, 2021, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
J&J or Jansen is the weakest of the Vax shots so taking any other product is an upgrade.

They are all disappointing in relation to the hype that originally surrounded them.

I don't see how you can say that they're disappointing if you listened/listen to the scientists. Most scientists are amazed at how successful these vaccines have been. If you look at the success rate of vaccines for other illnesses then the covid vaccines have been incredibly good. Also it's not that unusual to require 3 or 4 shots for vaccines, hepatitis b requires 3 jabs. Real world evidence shows that the booster provides 96% protection against any symptomatic illness from covid.

And in most cases a 4th vaccine a year later if titres are low.
who gets that vaccine? 
Do you need it to eat a burger or have a beer ?
Does it work after the fourth shot or we don't know .

Hep B is a bloodborne pathogen. You get it from blood, semen and other bodily fluids entering your body through an injection, sex or placental transfer.

You don't get it because someone is yapping ten feet away in the restaurant.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 07:04:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2021, 06:59:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 31, 2021, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
J&J or Jansen is the weakest of the Vax shots so taking any other product is an upgrade.

They are all disappointing in relation to the hype that originally surrounded them.

I don't see how you can say that they're disappointing if you listened/listen to the scientists. Most scientists are amazed at how successful these vaccines have been. If you look at the success rate of vaccines for other illnesses then the covid vaccines have been incredibly good. Also it's not that unusual to require 3 or 4 shots for vaccines, hepatitis b requires 3 jabs. Real world evidence shows that the booster provides 96% protection against any symptomatic illness from covid.

And in most cases a 4th vaccine a year later if titres are low.
who gets that vaccine? 
Do you need it to eat a burger or have a beer ?
Does it work after the fourth shot or we don't know .

Hep B is a bloodborne pathogen. You get it from blood, semen and other bodily fluids entering your body through an injection, sex or placental transfer.

You don't get it because someone is yapping ten feet away in the restaurant.
I thought you were good at 6 feet ? Follow the science j70
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 01, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 07:04:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 01, 2021, 06:59:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 31, 2021, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
J&J or Jansen is the weakest of the Vax shots so taking any other product is an upgrade.

They are all disappointing in relation to the hype that originally surrounded them.

I don't see how you can say that they're disappointing if you listened/listen to the scientists. Most scientists are amazed at how successful these vaccines have been. If you look at the success rate of vaccines for other illnesses then the covid vaccines have been incredibly good. Also it's not that unusual to require 3 or 4 shots for vaccines, hepatitis b requires 3 jabs. Real world evidence shows that the booster provides 96% protection against any symptomatic illness from covid.

And in most cases a 4th vaccine a year later if titres are low.
who gets that vaccine? 
Do you need it to eat a burger or have a beer ?
Does it work after the fourth shot or we don't know .

Hep B is a bloodborne pathogen. You get it from blood, semen and other bodily fluids entering your body through an injection, sex or placental transfer.

You don't get it because someone is yapping ten feet away in the restaurant.
I thought you were good at 6 feet ? Follow the science j70

You're not "good".

You're "better".

Larry David did an episode of Curb on good and better. Think it was about Hodgkins and non-Hodgkins cancers. He explains it well. ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 08:20:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 31, 2021, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
J&J or Jansen is the weakest of the Vax shots so taking any other product is an upgrade.

They are all disappointing in relation to the hype that originally surrounded them.

I don't see how you can say that they're disappointing if you listened/listen to the scientists. Most scientists are amazed at how successful these vaccines have been. If you look at the success rate of vaccines for other illnesses then the covid vaccines have been incredibly good. Also it's not that unusual to require 3 or 4 shots for vaccines, hepatitis b requires 3 jabs. Real world evidence shows that the booster provides 96% protection against any symptomatic illness from covid.

And in most cases a 4th vaccine a year later if titres are low.
who gets that vaccine? 
Do you need it to eat a burger or have a beer ?
Does it work after the fourth shot or we don't know .

No, because there is no risk of HepB transmission in a restaurant unless you are swapping bodily fluids with the lad at the table beside you.

You do need it to administer injections however, because there is a risk of transmission there.


See the way it makes perfect sense when it's explained?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 08:46:37 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 08:20:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 31, 2021, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
J&J or Jansen is the weakest of the Vax shots so taking any other product is an upgrade.

They are all disappointing in relation to the hype that originally surrounded them.

I don't see how you can say that they're disappointing if you listened/listen to the scientists. Most scientists are amazed at how successful these vaccines have been. If you look at the success rate of vaccines for other illnesses then the covid vaccines have been incredibly good. Also it's not that unusual to require 3 or 4 shots for vaccines, hepatitis b requires 3 jabs. Real world evidence shows that the booster provides 96% protection against any symptomatic illness from covid.

And in most cases a 4th vaccine a year later if titres are low.
who gets that vaccine? 
Do you need it to eat a burger or have a beer ?
Does it work after the fourth shot or we don't know .

No, because there is no risk of HepB transmission in a restaurant unless you are swapping bodily fluids with the lad at the table beside you.

You do need it to administer injections however, because there is a risk of transmission there.


See the way it makes perfect sense when it's explained?
of course for that particular disease .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 08:53:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 08:46:37 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 08:20:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 31, 2021, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
J&J or Jansen is the weakest of the Vax shots so taking any other product is an upgrade.

They are all disappointing in relation to the hype that originally surrounded them.

I don't see how you can say that they're disappointing if you listened/listen to the scientists. Most scientists are amazed at how successful these vaccines have been. If you look at the success rate of vaccines for other illnesses then the covid vaccines have been incredibly good. Also it's not that unusual to require 3 or 4 shots for vaccines, hepatitis b requires 3 jabs. Real world evidence shows that the booster provides 96% protection against any symptomatic illness from covid.

And in most cases a 4th vaccine a year later if titres are low.
who gets that vaccine? 
Do you need it to eat a burger or have a beer ?
Does it work after the fourth shot or we don't know .

No, because there is no risk of HepB transmission in a restaurant unless you are swapping bodily fluids with the lad at the table beside you.

You do need it to administer injections however, because there is a risk of transmission there.


See the way it makes perfect sense when it's explained?
of course for that particular disease .

Yes, so now imagine a disease spread by respiratory droplets, particularly indoors. What situation would you consider particularly risky and therefore require vaccination for anyone in that situation?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 09:17:14 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 08:53:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 08:46:37 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 08:20:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 31, 2021, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
J&J or Jansen is the weakest of the Vax shots so taking any other product is an upgrade.

They are all disappointing in relation to the hype that originally surrounded them.

I don't see how you can say that they're disappointing if you listened/listen to the scientists. Most scientists are amazed at how successful these vaccines have been. If you look at the success rate of vaccines for other illnesses then the covid vaccines have been incredibly good. Also it's not that unusual to require 3 or 4 shots for vaccines, hepatitis b requires 3 jabs. Real world evidence shows that the booster provides 96% protection against any symptomatic illness from covid.

And in most cases a 4th vaccine a year later if titres are low.
who gets that vaccine? 
Do you need it to eat a burger or have a beer ?
Does it work after the fourth shot or we don't know .

No, because there is no risk of HepB transmission in a restaurant unless you are swapping bodily fluids with the lad at the table beside you.

You do need it to administer injections however, because there is a risk of transmission there.


See the way it makes perfect sense when it's explained?
of course for that particular disease .

Yes, so now imagine a disease spread by respiratory droplets, particularly indoors. What situation would you consider particularly risky and therefore require vaccination for anyone in that situation?
vaccine passports are my problem not vaccines
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 01, 2021, 09:23:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 09:17:14 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 08:53:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 08:46:37 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 08:20:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 31, 2021, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
J&J or Jansen is the weakest of the Vax shots so taking any other product is an upgrade.

They are all disappointing in relation to the hype that originally surrounded them.

I don't see how you can say that they're disappointing if you listened/listen to the scientists. Most scientists are amazed at how successful these vaccines have been. If you look at the success rate of vaccines for other illnesses then the covid vaccines have been incredibly good. Also it's not that unusual to require 3 or 4 shots for vaccines, hepatitis b requires 3 jabs. Real world evidence shows that the booster provides 96% protection against any symptomatic illness from covid.

And in most cases a 4th vaccine a year later if titres are low.
who gets that vaccine? 
Do you need it to eat a burger or have a beer ?
Does it work after the fourth shot or we don't know .

No, because there is no risk of HepB transmission in a restaurant unless you are swapping bodily fluids with the lad at the table beside you.

You do need it to administer injections however, because there is a risk of transmission there.


See the way it makes perfect sense when it's explained?
of course for that particular disease .

Yes, so now imagine a disease spread by respiratory droplets, particularly indoors. What situation would you consider particularly risky and therefore require vaccination for anyone in that situation?
vaccine passports are my problem not vaccines

Green card?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 09:43:19 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on November 01, 2021, 09:23:19 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 09:17:14 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 08:53:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 08:46:37 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 08:20:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 31, 2021, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
J&J or Jansen is the weakest of the Vax shots so taking any other product is an upgrade.

They are all disappointing in relation to the hype that originally surrounded them.

I don't see how you can say that they're disappointing if you listened/listen to the scientists. Most scientists are amazed at how successful these vaccines have been. If you look at the success rate of vaccines for other illnesses then the covid vaccines have been incredibly good. Also it's not that unusual to require 3 or 4 shots for vaccines, hepatitis b requires 3 jabs. Real world evidence shows that the booster provides 96% protection against any symptomatic illness from covid.

And in most cases a 4th vaccine a year later if titres are low.
who gets that vaccine? 
Do you need it to eat a burger or have a beer ?
Does it work after the fourth shot or we don't know .

No, because there is no risk of HepB transmission in a restaurant unless you are swapping bodily fluids with the lad at the table beside you.

You do need it to administer injections however, because there is a risk of transmission there.


See the way it makes perfect sense when it's explained?
of course for that particular disease .

Yes, so now imagine a disease spread by respiratory droplets, particularly indoors. What situation would you consider particularly risky and therefore require vaccination for anyone in that situation?
vaccine passports are my problem not vaccines

Green card?
showing vaccination status to enter certain buildings
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 01, 2021, 11:03:17 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 01, 2021, 06:05:04 PM
Cases growing in the 26 counties now, there are a lot more than most European countries with good vaccination coverage. People are getting a bit careless.

I think a total lockdown will be needed before Christmas.
That horse has bolted. Any more lockdowns will be 99% ignored especially with younger people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 02, 2021, 11:20:37 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 09:17:14 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 08:53:46 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 08:46:37 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 08:20:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 01, 2021, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 31, 2021, 06:42:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 31, 2021, 11:50:05 AM
J&J or Jansen is the weakest of the Vax shots so taking any other product is an upgrade.

They are all disappointing in relation to the hype that originally surrounded them.

I don't see how you can say that they're disappointing if you listened/listen to the scientists. Most scientists are amazed at how successful these vaccines have been. If you look at the success rate of vaccines for other illnesses then the covid vaccines have been incredibly good. Also it's not that unusual to require 3 or 4 shots for vaccines, hepatitis b requires 3 jabs. Real world evidence shows that the booster provides 96% protection against any symptomatic illness from covid.

And in most cases a 4th vaccine a year later if titres are low.
who gets that vaccine? 
Do you need it to eat a burger or have a beer ?
Does it work after the fourth shot or we don't know .

No, because there is no risk of HepB transmission in a restaurant unless you are swapping bodily fluids with the lad at the table beside you.

You do need it to administer injections however, because there is a risk of transmission there.


See the way it makes perfect sense when it's explained?
of course for that particular disease .

Yes, so now imagine a disease spread by respiratory droplets, particularly indoors. What situation would you consider particularly risky and therefore require vaccination for anyone in that situation?
vaccine passports are my problem not vaccines

Why?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 11:31:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 01, 2021, 11:03:17 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 01, 2021, 06:05:04 PM
Cases growing in the 26 counties now, there are a lot more than most European countries with good vaccination coverage. People are getting a bit careless.

I think a total lockdown will be needed before Christmas.
That horse has bolted. Any more lockdowns will be 99% ignored especially with younger people.

Hard to ignore if everything is shut. After 3 of them, you do understand how they work  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 02, 2021, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 11:31:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 01, 2021, 11:03:17 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 01, 2021, 06:05:04 PM
Cases growing in the 26 counties now, there are a lot more than most European countries with good vaccination coverage. People are getting a bit careless.

I think a total lockdown will be needed before Christmas.
That horse has bolted. Any more lockdowns will be 99% ignored especially with younger people.

Hard to ignore if everything is shut. After 3 of them, you do understand how they work  ::)
Meh. Not much pointing making businesses suffer when people will still meet up in different settings. Anyway BoJo hopefully has cut the magic furlough money tree for good now so lockdowns won't be back.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 11:37:26 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 02, 2021, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 11:31:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 01, 2021, 11:03:17 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 01, 2021, 06:05:04 PM
Cases growing in the 26 counties now, there are a lot more than most European countries with good vaccination coverage. People are getting a bit careless.

I think a total lockdown will be needed before Christmas.
That horse has bolted. Any more lockdowns will be 99% ignored especially with younger people.

Hard to ignore if everything is shut. After 3 of them, you do understand how they work  ::)
Meh. Not much pointing making businesses suffer when people will still meet up in different settings. Anyway BoJo hopefully has cut the magic furlough money tree for good now so lockdowns won't be back.

So what is it, no lockdowns because no one will obey or because there is no public money for it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 02, 2021, 12:32:10 PM
They will have to bring in Martial law for another lockdown. The public can't be trusted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 02, 2021, 12:57:10 PM
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-death-risk-32-times-higher-for-the-unvaccinated-figures-suggest-12457074
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 02, 2021, 12:59:41 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 11:37:26 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 02, 2021, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 11:31:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 01, 2021, 11:03:17 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 01, 2021, 06:05:04 PM
Cases growing in the 26 counties now, there are a lot more than most European countries with good vaccination coverage. People are getting a bit careless.

I think a total lockdown will be needed before Christmas.
That horse has bolted. Any more lockdowns will be 99% ignored especially with younger people.

Hard to ignore if everything is shut. After 3 of them, you do understand how they work  ::)
Meh. Not much pointing making businesses suffer when people will still meet up in different settings. Anyway BoJo hopefully has cut the magic furlough money tree for good now so lockdowns won't be back.

So what is it, no lockdowns because no one will obey or because there is no public money for it?

Both. People will ignore it, and businesses will ignore the soon to be introduced passports.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 02, 2021, 01:03:53 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 02, 2021, 12:32:10 PM
They will have to bring in Martial law for another lockdown. The public can't be trusted.
It would be simpler to close the borders and get testing up to scratch.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 01:28:55 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 02, 2021, 12:59:41 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 11:37:26 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 02, 2021, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 11:31:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 01, 2021, 11:03:17 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 01, 2021, 06:05:04 PM
Cases growing in the 26 counties now, there are a lot more than most European countries with good vaccination coverage. People are getting a bit careless.

I think a total lockdown will be needed before Christmas.
That horse has bolted. Any more lockdowns will be 99% ignored especially with younger people.

Hard to ignore if everything is shut. After 3 of them, you do understand how they work  ::)
Meh. Not much pointing making businesses suffer when people will still meet up in different settings. Anyway BoJo hopefully has cut the magic furlough money tree for good now so lockdowns won't be back.

So what is it, no lockdowns because no one will obey or because there is no public money for it?

Both. People will ignore it, and businesses will ignore the soon to be introduced passports.

Businesses won't. Principles are easily abandoned when you livelihood and the people you employ is under threat.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 02, 2021, 01:50:00 PM
There isn't going to be a "lockdown". Business will enforce vaccination certs, it is in the interests of business generally to reduce the pandemic and any individual business taking the piss can be fined and closed down. Not all young people are irresponsible sociopaths. They need calibrated measures, to track down those that remain to be vaccinated and to give boosters to people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 02:04:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2021, 01:50:00 PM
There isn't going to be a "lockdown". Business will enforce vaccination certs, it is in the interests of business generally to reduce the pandemic and any individual business taking the piss can be fined and closed down. Not all young people are irresponsible sociopaths. They need calibrated measures, to track down those that remain to be vaccinated and to give boosters to people.

Ah a bit of sense but that don't fit the narrative of some people.

On top of that, those business's are responsible for the safety of their employees and customers. If you choose to take the piss, it's almost certain you won't get public and employee liability insurance, or any claims against the policies will be rejected. It's very clearly called out in the policy underwriting (for the companies I've dealt with).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on November 02, 2021, 02:21:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2021, 01:50:00 PM
There isn't going to be a "lockdown". Business will enforce vaccination certs, it is in the interests of business generally to reduce the pandemic and any individual business taking the piss can be fined and closed down. Not all young people are irresponsible sociopaths. They need calibrated measures, to track down those that remain to be vaccinated and to give boosters to people.

Track down those that remain unvaccinated & execute the fookers, suppose that would make you happy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 02, 2021, 02:24:24 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 02, 2021, 02:21:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2021, 01:50:00 PM
There isn't going to be a "lockdown". Business will enforce vaccination certs, it is in the interests of business generally to reduce the pandemic and any individual business taking the piss can be fined and closed down. Not all young people are irresponsible sociopaths. They need calibrated measures, to track down those that remain to be vaccinated and to give boosters to people.

Track down those that remain unvaccinated & execute the fookers, suppose that would make you happy.
Getting that vibe alright..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 02:47:40 PM
Strikes me that too many people in this discussion believe there is a pill for every ill. If you are that focused on your good health and that of your loved ones as you undoubtedly are, isn't there an argument to broaden your horizon. For the simple reason there's plenty of other things that will put us in the ground prematurely beyond Covid. There's a worrying level of neuroticism creeping in here.
Chill out to this for half an hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-QO33hfadY
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 02, 2021, 02:48:27 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 02, 2021, 02:21:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2021, 01:50:00 PM
There isn't going to be a "lockdown". Business will enforce vaccination certs, it is in the interests of business generally to reduce the pandemic and any individual business taking the piss can be fined and closed down. Not all young people are irresponsible sociopaths. They need calibrated measures, to track down those that remain to be vaccinated and to give boosters to people.

Track down those that remain unvaccinated & execute the fookers, suppose that would make you happy.

Why would someone wanting as people as possible vaccinated to save lives suddenly want people executed? Strange take. Tracking down and addressing vaccine hesitancy I'd say
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 02:55:52 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 02:47:40 PM
Strikes me that too many people in this discussion believe there is a pill for every ill. If you are that focused on your good health and that of your loved ones as you undoubtedly are, isn't there an argument to broaden your horizon. For the simple reason there's plenty of other things that will put us in the ground prematurely beyond Covid. There's a worrying level of neuroticism creeping in here.
Chill out to this for half an hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-QO33hfadY

You do understand what a pandemic is?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on November 02, 2021, 03:07:33 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on November 02, 2021, 02:48:27 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 02, 2021, 02:21:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2021, 01:50:00 PM
There isn't going to be a "lockdown". Business will enforce vaccination certs, it is in the interests of business generally to reduce the pandemic and any individual business taking the piss can be fined and closed down. Not all young people are irresponsible sociopaths. They need calibrated measures, to track down those that remain to be vaccinated and to give boosters to people.

Track down those that remain unvaccinated & execute the fookers, suppose that would make you happy.

Why would someone wanting as people as possible vaccinated to save lives suddenly want people executed? Strange take. Tracking down and addressing vaccine hesitancy I'd say

Thats the second time you pulled me up for a strange take. The language he used ie "track down those" is that of a fascist dictator. The vaccine is not mandatory yet, people have a choice to take it or not, to remain outside bars, niteclubs etc. So by your logic a covid vaccine hesitant person who is tracked down & talked to by lets say a GP or Luke O Neill type is going to change their mind! I doubt it.
The only things that will change the mind of a vaccine hesitant person, is a person close to them or them themselves getting a serious dose of Covid or say 2 years of raw data proving the vaccine is safe to take. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 02, 2021, 03:24:19 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 01:28:55 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 02, 2021, 12:59:41 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 11:37:26 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 02, 2021, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 11:31:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 01, 2021, 11:03:17 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 01, 2021, 06:05:04 PM
Cases growing in the 26 counties now, there are a lot more than most European countries with good vaccination coverage. People are getting a bit careless.

I think a total lockdown will be needed before Christmas.
That horse has bolted. Any more lockdowns will be 99% ignored especially with younger people.

Hard to ignore if everything is shut. After 3 of them, you do understand how they work  ::)
Meh. Not much pointing making businesses suffer when people will still meet up in different settings. Anyway BoJo hopefully has cut the magic furlough money tree for good now so lockdowns won't be back.

So what is it, no lockdowns because no one will obey or because there is no public money for it?

Both. People will ignore it, and businesses will ignore the soon to be introduced passports.

Businesses won't. Principles are easily abandoned when you livelihood and the people you employ is under threat.

Businesses have suffered enough. Many owners won't put up with this anymore. Grants/loans placated them for a while, but their businesses won't survive with all that passports entail.  Enforcing vaccine passports for someone wanting a cup of tea in a cafe isn't going to sort out the pandemic. It's up to politicians and government to do that, not business owners.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 02, 2021, 03:27:22 PM
Why 2 years? There is about 9 months worth of data in the UK across 10s of millions of people. Extrapolated globally (approx 4 billion doses administered to young, old, sick, healthy, pregnant) I'd say it is pretty clear that the vaccines are both safe and efficacious.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 02, 2021, 03:29:45 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 02, 2021, 03:07:33 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on November 02, 2021, 02:48:27 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 02, 2021, 02:21:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 02, 2021, 01:50:00 PM
There isn't going to be a "lockdown". Business will enforce vaccination certs, it is in the interests of business generally to reduce the pandemic and any individual business taking the piss can be fined and closed down. Not all young people are irresponsible sociopaths. They need calibrated measures, to track down those that remain to be vaccinated and to give boosters to people.

Track down those that remain unvaccinated & execute the fookers, suppose that would make you happy.

Why would someone wanting as people as possible vaccinated to save lives suddenly want people executed? Strange take. Tracking down and addressing vaccine hesitancy I'd say

Thats the second time you pulled me up for a strange take. The language he used ie "track down those" is that of a fascist dictator. The vaccine is not mandatory yet, people have a choice to take it or not, to remain outside bars, niteclubs etc. So by your logic a covid vaccine hesitant person who is tracked down & talked to by lets say a GP or Luke O Neill type is going to change their mind! I doubt it.
The only things that will change the mind of a vaccine hesitant person, is a person close to them or them themselves getting a serious dose of Covid or say 2 years of raw data proving the vaccine is safe to take.

The Building next to me has about a dozen Track and Trace offices, all well signed. About 40 people tracking people and not a fascist dictator in sight.

The bit in bold, your assumption  is a bit of a leap. Vaccine hesitancy strategys have been about as long as vaccines have as there is a need to get to a certain level. Why not try? Plenty on the fence and a face to face with a professional might persuade them, might not.

PS: the vaccine is safe, how many billions administered? I'm due an angiography in the not too distant future though. 1 in a 1000 people will have a stroke that causes permanent paralysis after having angiography. The Covid Vaccine is in fact very safe compared to alot of medicines / procedures
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on November 02, 2021, 03:56:15 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 02, 2021, 03:27:22 PM
Why 2 years? There is about 9 months worth of data in the UK across 10s of millions of people. Extrapolated globally (approx 4 billion doses administered to young, old, sick, healthy, pregnant) I'd say it is pretty clear that the vaccines are both safe and efficacious.

The collation & more importantly the analysis of data for 4 billion doses takes a serious amount of time. The effects of any drug or vaccine can be seen over short, medium to long term. We have not reached long term yet. People have died & or have serious side effects associated with taking this vaccine, therefore hesitancy. Yes the odds of dying  from Covid may be multiple times greater than that from taking the vaccine, people still have a choice at the moment.
Regarding the efficacy of the vaccines, its much better than the alternative, however not fantastic either.

The next comment has nothing to do with the above:

4 covid patients in a hospital 3 are vaccinated & regretfully die, 1 is unvaccinated & lives. The reason he lived was he could receive drug therapy that the vaccinated could not. Before you shoot me, I heard this from a vaccinated sister of the survivor, could be BS.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 04:07:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 02, 2021, 03:24:19 PM
Businesses have suffered enough. Many owners won't put up with this anymore. Grants/loans placated them for a while, but their businesses won't survive with all that passports entail.  Enforcing vaccine passports for someone wanting a cup of tea in a cafe isn't going to sort out the pandemic. It's up to politicians and government to do that, not business owners.

Are you able to quantify the financial impact of the passports or are you just making this up as per all your other posts?

Regardless of the the other arguments around the passports; there is zero evidence that businesses are struggling financially due to checking certs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 02, 2021, 04:55:21 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 04:07:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 02, 2021, 03:24:19 PM
Businesses have suffered enough. Many owners won't put up with this anymore. Grants/loans placated them for a while, but their businesses won't survive with all that passports entail.  Enforcing vaccine passports for someone wanting a cup of tea in a cafe isn't going to sort out the pandemic. It's up to politicians and government to do that, not business owners.

Are you able to quantify the financial impact of the passports or are you just making this up as per all your other posts?

Regardless of the the other arguments around the passports; there is zero evidence that businesses are struggling financially due to checking certs.

It takes time to process, extra staff, and the bigger the establishment/footfall, the bigger the inconvenience and hassle. Take concerts venues, nightclubs, sports events, and the extra effort all that will entail. Do you think all that is not going to put extra burden on businesses?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 05:24:34 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 02:55:52 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 02:47:40 PM
Strikes me that too many people in this discussion believe there is a pill for every ill. If you are that focused on your good health and that of your loved ones as you undoubtedly are, isn't there an argument to broaden your horizon. For the simple reason there's plenty of other things that will put us in the ground prematurely beyond Covid. There's a worrying level of neuroticism creeping in here.
Chill out to this for half an hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-QO33hfadY

You do understand what a pandemic is?

Think so yes, something along these lines as far as I can tell.
"Pandemic, outbreak of infectious disease that occurs over a wide geographical area and that is of high prevalence, generally affecting a significant proportion of the world's population over the course of several months"
Not terror inducing however for those who are metabolically healthy, hence the video presentation I shared. You should watch it.
Just trying to help.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 02, 2021, 05:58:01 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 02, 2021, 04:55:21 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 04:07:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 02, 2021, 03:24:19 PM
Businesses have suffered enough. Many owners won't put up with this anymore. Grants/loans placated them for a while, but their businesses won't survive with all that passports entail.  Enforcing vaccine passports for someone wanting a cup of tea in a cafe isn't going to sort out the pandemic. It's up to politicians and government to do that, not business owners.

Are you able to quantify the financial impact of the passports or are you just making this up as per all your other posts?

Regardless of the the other arguments around the passports; there is zero evidence that businesses are struggling financially due to checking certs.

It takes time to process, extra staff, and the bigger the establishment/footfall, the bigger the inconvenience and hassle. Take concerts venues, nightclubs, sports events, and the extra effort all that will entail. Do you think all that is not going to put extra burden on businesses?

Of course it puts an extra burden on business. But business has to run their ooperations so that they are not a danger to public health, no doubt they would make more profit if they did not have to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 02, 2021, 07:26:35 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 02, 2021, 03:24:19 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 01:28:55 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 02, 2021, 12:59:41 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 11:37:26 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 02, 2021, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 11:31:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 01, 2021, 11:03:17 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 01, 2021, 06:36:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 01, 2021, 06:05:04 PM
Cases growing in the 26 counties now, there are a lot more than most European countries with good vaccination coverage. People are getting a bit careless.

they will do  you think  business owners will start rioting or something no they will bow down

I think a total lockdown will be needed before Christmas.
That horse has bolted. Any more lockdowns will be 99% ignored especially with younger people.

Hard to ignore if everything is shut. After 3 of them, you do understand how they work  ::)
Meh. Not much pointing making businesses suffer when people will still meet up in different settings. Anyway BoJo hopefully has cut the magic furlough money tree for good now so lockdowns won't be back.

So what is it, no lockdowns because no one will obey or because there is no public money for it?

Both. People will ignore it, and businesses will ignore the soon to be introduced passports.

Businesses won't. Principles are easily abandoned when you livelihood and the people you employ is under threat.

Businesses have suffered enough. Many owners won't put up with this anymore. Grants/loans placated them for a while, but their businesses won't survive with all that passports entail.  Enforcing vaccine passports for someone wanting a cup of tea in a cafe isn't going to sort out the pandemic. It's up to politicians and government to do that, not business owners.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 10:11:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 02, 2021, 04:55:21 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 04:07:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 02, 2021, 03:24:19 PM
Businesses have suffered enough. Many owners won't put up with this anymore. Grants/loans placated them for a while, but their businesses won't survive with all that passports entail.  Enforcing vaccine passports for someone wanting a cup of tea in a cafe isn't going to sort out the pandemic. It's up to politicians and government to do that, not business owners.

Are you able to quantify the financial impact of the passports or are you just making this up as per all your other posts?

Regardless of the the other arguments around the passports; there is zero evidence that businesses are struggling financially due to checking certs.

It takes time to process, extra staff, and the bigger the establishment/footfall, the bigger the inconvenience and hassle. Take concerts venues, nightclubs, sports events, and the extra effort all that will entail. Do you think all that is not going to put extra burden on businesses?

You do know most of these venues with the bigger footfall already already check tickets, IDs, search and they don't need extra staff to check. There is no extra burden as they already are doing checks and it takes seconds. The promoters/owners etc... in the south have already stated there is no impact.

On the subject of smaller venues, you do know they don't need to employ security to check this 😀 most cafes and bars in Dublin just ask you on entry and check when they are taking your order. Again no effort.

So no it's not putting any burden to the point they can't survive and plenty of business have openly stated that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 03, 2021, 12:19:08 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 05:24:34 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 02:55:52 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 02:47:40 PM
Strikes me that too many people in this discussion believe there is a pill for every ill. If you are that focused on your good health and that of your loved ones as you undoubtedly are, isn't there an argument to broaden your horizon. For the simple reason there's plenty of other things that will put us in the ground prematurely beyond Covid. There's a worrying level of neuroticism creeping in here.
Chill out to this for half an hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-QO33hfadY

You do understand what a pandemic is?

Think so yes, something along these lines as far as I can tell.
"Pandemic, outbreak of infectious disease that occurs over a wide geographical area and that is of high prevalence, generally affecting a significant proportion of the world's population over the course of several months"
Not terror inducing however for those who are metabolically healthy, hence the video presentation I shared. You should watch it.
Just trying to help.

What does the YouTube recommend for the infections diseases?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on November 03, 2021, 09:23:52 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 03, 2021, 12:19:08 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 05:24:34 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 02:55:52 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 02:47:40 PM
Strikes me that too many people in this discussion believe there is a pill for every ill. If you are that focused on your good health and that of your loved ones as you undoubtedly are, isn't there an argument to broaden your horizon. For the simple reason there's plenty of other things that will put us in the ground prematurely beyond Covid. There's a worrying level of neuroticism creeping in here.
Chill out to this for half an hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-QO33hfadY

You do understand what a pandemic is?

Think so yes, something along these lines as far as I can tell.
"Pandemic, outbreak of infectious disease that occurs over a wide geographical area and that is of high prevalence, generally affecting a significant proportion of the world's population over the course of several months"
Not terror inducing however for those who are metabolically healthy, hence the video presentation I shared. You should watch it.
Just trying to help.

What does the YouTube recommend for the infections diseases?

It recommends that you stop eating takeaways and porter, adopt a healthy lifestyle and diet. Take personal responsibility for your health, shouldn't be anyones problem but yours.
Go forward with your best possible inate immune system plus judicious medical intervention and go swing the world by the tail. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 03, 2021, 10:34:36 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 03, 2021, 09:23:52 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 03, 2021, 12:19:08 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 05:24:34 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 02:55:52 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 02:47:40 PM
Strikes me that too many people in this discussion believe there is a pill for every ill. If you are that focused on your good health and that of your loved ones as you undoubtedly are, isn't there an argument to broaden your horizon. For the simple reason there's plenty of other things that will put us in the ground prematurely beyond Covid. There's a worrying level of neuroticism creeping in here.
Chill out to this for half an hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-QO33hfadY

You do understand what a pandemic is?

Think so yes, something along these lines as far as I can tell.
"Pandemic, outbreak of infectious disease that occurs over a wide geographical area and that is of high prevalence, generally affecting a significant proportion of the world's population over the course of several months"
Not terror inducing however for those who are metabolically healthy, hence the video presentation I shared. You should watch it.
Just trying to help.

What does the YouTube recommend for the infections diseases?

It recommends that you stop eating takeaways and porter, adopt a healthy lifestyle and diet. Take personal responsibility for your health, shouldn't be anyones problem but yours.
Go forward with your best possible inate immune system plus judicious medical intervention and go swing the world by the tail.

Wonderful but again how does all that help with controlling the spread and impact of an infectious disease?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on November 03, 2021, 10:53:41 AM
We would likely have less people vulnerable to Covid during the Winter and therefore would have protected the health system better had Tony and co not been so irresponsible with such a severe lockdown since last March.

Once the over 60's and the vulnerable were vaccinated Coppers, Sports grounds, Cinemas etc should've opened to full capacity.

Looks like some sort of herd immunity is the only way this will end.

A few here predicted a winter lockdown caused by our shit Health Service, it's likely the NPHET egomaniacs will advise on a circuit breaker soon.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 03, 2021, 11:23:43 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 03, 2021, 10:53:41 AM
We would likely have less people vulnerable to Covid during the Winter and therefore would have protected the health system better had Tony and co not been so irresponsible with such a severe lockdown since last March.

Once the over 60's and the vulnerable were vaccinated Coppers, Sports grounds, Cinemas etc should've opened to full capacity.

Looks like some sort of herd immunity is the only way this will end.

A few here predicted a winter lockdown caused by our shit Health Service, it's likely the NPHET egomaniacs will advise on a circuit breaker soon.
Can't really argue with that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on November 03, 2021, 12:40:33 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 03, 2021, 10:34:36 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 03, 2021, 09:23:52 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 03, 2021, 12:19:08 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 05:24:34 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 02:55:52 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 02:47:40 PM
Strikes me that too many people in this discussion believe there is a pill for every ill. If you are that focused on your good health and that of your loved ones as you undoubtedly are, isn't there an argument to broaden your horizon. For the simple reason there's plenty of other things that will put us in the ground prematurely beyond Covid. There's a worrying level of neuroticism creeping in here.
Chill out to this for half an hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-QO33hfadY

You do understand what a pandemic is?

Think so yes, something along these lines as far as I can tell.
"Pandemic, outbreak of infectious disease that occurs over a wide geographical area and that is of high prevalence, generally affecting a significant proportion of the world's population over the course of several months"
Not terror inducing however for those who are metabolically healthy, hence the video presentation I shared. You should watch it.
Just trying to help.

What does the YouTube recommend for the infections diseases?

It recommends that you stop eating takeaways and porter, adopt a healthy lifestyle and diet. Take personal responsibility for your health, shouldn't be anyones problem but yours.
Go forward with your best possible inate immune system plus judicious medical intervention and go swing the world by the tail.

Wonderful but again how does all that help with controlling the spread and impact of an infectious disease?
That's the thing, there's a false impression that this thing can be controlled in some way. The measures to date haven't done much. There's vaccines that help prevent hospitalisation no doubt but if your are not in good physical shape even it may not save you. So what can you do? Plan A: get yourself in the best possible shape so you can put up a good immune response if/when you catch it and take a vaccine if you want. Plan B: sit in the house, eat and drink rubbish, watch box sets. There's no magic bullet here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 01:02:20 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 03, 2021, 12:40:33 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 03, 2021, 10:34:36 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 03, 2021, 09:23:52 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 03, 2021, 12:19:08 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 05:24:34 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 02:55:52 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 02:47:40 PM
Strikes me that too many people in this discussion believe there is a pill for every ill. If you are that focused on your good health and that of your loved ones as you undoubtedly are, isn't there an argument to broaden your horizon. For the simple reason there's plenty of other things that will put us in the ground prematurely beyond Covid. There's a worrying level of neuroticism creeping in here.
Chill out to this for half an hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-QO33hfadY

You do understand what a pandemic is?

Think so yes, something along these lines as far as I can tell.
"Pandemic, outbreak of infectious disease that occurs over a wide geographical area and that is of high prevalence, generally affecting a significant proportion of the world's population over the course of several months"
Not terror inducing however for those who are metabolically healthy, hence the video presentation I shared. You should watch it.
Just trying to help.

What does the YouTube recommend for the infections diseases?

It recommends that you stop eating takeaways and porter, adopt a healthy lifestyle and diet. Take personal responsibility for your health, shouldn't be anyones problem but yours.
Go forward with your best possible inate immune system plus judicious medical intervention and go swing the world by the tail.

Wonderful but again how does all that help with controlling the spread and impact of an infectious disease?
That's the thing, there's a false impression that this thing can be controlled in some way. The measures to date haven't done much. There's vaccines that help prevent hospitalisation no doubt but if your are not in good physical shape even it may not save you. So what can you do? Plan A: get yourself in the best possible shape so you can put up a good immune response if/when you catch it and take a vaccine if you want. Plan B: sit in the house, eat and drink rubbish, watch box sets. There's no magic bullet here.

Covid cannot be controlled by healthy eating.

So stop pretending it can.

That's woo.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on November 03, 2021, 01:27:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 03, 2021, 01:02:20 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 03, 2021, 12:40:33 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 03, 2021, 10:34:36 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 03, 2021, 09:23:52 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 03, 2021, 12:19:08 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 05:24:34 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 02:55:52 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 02:47:40 PM
Strikes me that too many people in this discussion believe there is a pill for every ill. If you are that focused on your good health and that of your loved ones as you undoubtedly are, isn't there an argument to broaden your horizon. For the simple reason there's plenty of other things that will put us in the ground prematurely beyond Covid. There's a worrying level of neuroticism creeping in here.
Chill out to this for half an hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-QO33hfadY

You do understand what a pandemic is?

Think so yes, something along these lines as far as I can tell.
"Pandemic, outbreak of infectious disease that occurs over a wide geographical area and that is of high prevalence, generally affecting a significant proportion of the world's population over the course of several months"
Not terror inducing however for those who are metabolically healthy, hence the video presentation I shared. You should watch it.
Just trying to help.

What does the YouTube recommend for the infections diseases?

It recommends that you stop eating takeaways and porter, adopt a healthy lifestyle and diet. Take personal responsibility for your health, shouldn't be anyones problem but yours.
Go forward with your best possible inate immune system plus judicious medical intervention and go swing the world by the tail.

Wonderful but again how does all that help with controlling the spread and impact of an infectious disease?
That's the thing, there's a false impression that this thing can be controlled in some way. The measures to date haven't done much. There's vaccines that help prevent hospitalisation no doubt but if your are not in good physical shape even it may not save you. So what can you do? Plan A: get yourself in the best possible shape so you can put up a good immune response if/when you catch it and take a vaccine if you want. Plan B: sit in the house, eat and drink rubbish, watch box sets. There's no magic bullet here.

Covid cannot be controlled by healthy eating.

So stop pretending it can.

That's woo.
I didn't state it could be controlled by anything, I only promote taking personal responsibility, control the controllable. Attempting anything beyond this is such a waste of energy and probably dangerous for your mental health.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 03, 2021, 01:45:10 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 03, 2021, 12:40:33 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 03, 2021, 10:34:36 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 03, 2021, 09:23:52 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 03, 2021, 12:19:08 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 05:24:34 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 02:55:52 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 02:47:40 PM
Strikes me that too many people in this discussion believe there is a pill for every ill. If you are that focused on your good health and that of your loved ones as you undoubtedly are, isn't there an argument to broaden your horizon. For the simple reason there's plenty of other things that will put us in the ground prematurely beyond Covid. There's a worrying level of neuroticism creeping in here.
Chill out to this for half an hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-QO33hfadY

You do understand what a pandemic is?

Think so yes, something along these lines as far as I can tell.
"Pandemic, outbreak of infectious disease that occurs over a wide geographical area and that is of high prevalence, generally affecting a significant proportion of the world's population over the course of several months"
Not terror inducing however for those who are metabolically healthy, hence the video presentation I shared. You should watch it.
Just trying to help.

What does the YouTube recommend for the infections diseases?

It recommends that you stop eating takeaways and porter, adopt a healthy lifestyle and diet. Take personal responsibility for your health, shouldn't be anyones problem but yours.
Go forward with your best possible inate immune system plus judicious medical intervention and go swing the world by the tail.

Wonderful but again how does all that help with controlling the spread and impact of an infectious disease?
That's the thing, there's a false impression that this thing can be controlled in some way. The measures to date haven't done much. There's vaccines that help prevent hospitalisation no doubt but if your are not in good physical shape even it may not save you. So what can you do? Plan A: get yourself in the best possible shape so you can put up a good immune response if/when you catch it and take a vaccine if you want. Plan B: sit in the house, eat and drink rubbish, watch box sets. There's no magic bullet here.

All very well but I don't think Covid will wait to infect us until we the best version of ourselves  ::)

Again none of this is relevant to preventing the spread of an infectious disease. No one has ever started the the virus can be controlled (at least anyone with cop on), all measures up to this point whether you agree with them or not where about reducing the spread of covid and the load of the health service; plus also to reduce the risk of mutations. It's clear that without some or all of the measures in the last year we would have been looking at much worse scenario.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 03, 2021, 02:08:51 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 03, 2021, 12:40:33 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 03, 2021, 10:34:36 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 03, 2021, 09:23:52 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 03, 2021, 12:19:08 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 05:24:34 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 02:55:52 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 02:47:40 PM
Strikes me that too many people in this discussion believe there is a pill for every ill. If you are that focused on your good health and that of your loved ones as you undoubtedly are, isn't there an argument to broaden your horizon. For the simple reason there's plenty of other things that will put us in the ground prematurely beyond Covid. There's a worrying level of neuroticism creeping in here.
Chill out to this for half an hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-QO33hfadY

You do understand what a pandemic is?

Think so yes, something along these lines as far as I can tell.
"Pandemic, outbreak of infectious disease that occurs over a wide geographical area and that is of high prevalence, generally affecting a significant proportion of the world's population over the course of several months"
Not terror inducing however for those who are metabolically healthy, hence the video presentation I shared. You should watch it.
Just trying to help.

What does the YouTube recommend for the infections diseases?

It recommends that you stop eating takeaways and porter, adopt a healthy lifestyle and diet. Take personal responsibility for your health, shouldn't be anyones problem but yours.
Go forward with your best possible inate immune system plus judicious medical intervention and go swing the world by the tail.

Wonderful but again how does all that help with controlling the spread and impact of an infectious disease?
That's the thing, there's a false impression that this thing can be controlled in some way. The measures to date haven't done much. There's vaccines that help prevent hospitalisation no doubt but if your are not in good physical shape even it may not save you. So what can you do? Plan A: get yourself in the best possible shape so you can put up a good immune response if/when you catch it and take a vaccine if you want. Plan B: sit in the house, eat and drink rubbish, watch box sets. There's no magic bullet here.

The way to get your immune system in the best shape to take on coronavirus is to give it a harmless copy of the spike protein in the form of a vaccine. That way your body can recognise the real virus when it enters your system and has the tools to fight it immediately. Anyone who thinks that taking supplements or getting fit will help if Covid takes hold is not following the science.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2021, 12:10:22 AM
In one of those ironicals Ewan McKenna caught Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2021, 12:18:34 AM
Quote from: lenny on November 03, 2021, 02:08:51 PM
The way to get your immune system in the best shape to take on coronavirus is to give it a harmless copy of the spike protein in the form of a vaccine. That way your body can recognise the real virus when it enters your system and has the tools to fight it immediately. Anyone who thinks that taking supplements or getting fit will help if Covid takes hold is not following the science.

The GAA analogy being that you need to train with the ball and not just rely on physical fitness to ensure that you win the game.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2021, 12:48:58 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 04, 2021, 12:18:34 AM
Quote from: lenny on November 03, 2021, 02:08:51 PM
The way to get your immune system in the best shape to take on coronavirus is to give it a harmless copy of the spike protein in the form of a vaccine. That way your body can recognise the real virus when it enters your system and has the tools to fight it immediately. Anyone who thinks that taking supplements or getting fit will help if Covid takes hold is not following the science.

The GAA analogy being that you need to train with the ball and not just rely on physical fitness to ensure that you win the game.

But it's a false analogy. That's the point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 04, 2021, 01:25:09 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2021, 12:10:22 AM
In one of those ironicals Ewan McKenna caught Covid.

I don't generally pay attention to EM.  Is he another anti-vaccer/it's all a conspiracy on this ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2021, 01:34:02 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 04, 2021, 01:25:09 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2021, 12:10:22 AM
In one of those ironicals Ewan McKenna caught Covid.

I don't generally pay attention to EM.  Is he another anti-vaccer/it's all a conspiracy on this ?

Yep. Gone full nut and now palling around with the far right
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on November 04, 2021, 01:41:14 AM
Jaysis, the Dubs have a lot to answer for.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on November 04, 2021, 01:51:08 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on November 04, 2021, 01:41:14 AM
Jaysis, the Dubs have a lot to answer for.

Long story short, the Indo let him go, he was stuck in his one bed in Portugal during lockdown and lurched very far into a dark place, went full anti everything and made some very nasty chums
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on November 04, 2021, 09:00:21 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 03, 2021, 12:40:33 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 03, 2021, 10:34:36 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 03, 2021, 09:23:52 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 03, 2021, 12:19:08 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 05:24:34 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 02:55:52 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 02:47:40 PM
Strikes me that too many people in this discussion believe there is a pill for every ill. If you are that focused on your good health and that of your loved ones as you undoubtedly are, isn't there an argument to broaden your horizon. For the simple reason there's plenty of other things that will put us in the ground prematurely beyond Covid. There's a worrying level of neuroticism creeping in here.
Chill out to this for half an hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-QO33hfadY

You do understand what a pandemic is?

Think so yes, something along these lines as far as I can tell.
"Pandemic, outbreak of infectious disease that occurs over a wide geographical area and that is of high prevalence, generally affecting a significant proportion of the world's population over the course of several months"
Not terror inducing however for those who are metabolically healthy, hence the video presentation I shared. You should watch it.
Just trying to help.

What does the YouTube recommend for the infections diseases?

It recommends that you stop eating takeaways and porter, adopt a healthy lifestyle and diet. Take personal responsibility for your health, shouldn't be anyones problem but yours.
Go forward with your best possible inate immune system plus judicious medical intervention and go swing the world by the tail.

Wonderful but again how does all that help with controlling the spread and impact of an infectious disease?
That's the thing, there's a false impression that this thing can be controlled in some way. The measures to date haven't done much. There's vaccines that help prevent hospitalisation no doubt but if your are not in good physical shape even it may not save you. So what can you do? Plan A: get yourself in the best possible shape so you can put up a good immune response if/when you catch it and take a vaccine if you want. Plan B: sit in the house, eat and drink rubbish, watch box sets. There's no magic bullet here.

I've known several people now in good physical shape hit hard by Covid and most have been double jabbed. One girl was up to 20miles in her prep for the London Marathon and she now struggles to run a mile without breathing issues.

Does it help to be fit, probably but broad, sweeping statements like that are incorrect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 05, 2021, 06:11:20 PM
waterford highest vaccinated county but almost has double the cases  could it be a case that the vaccinated let their guard down
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NotedObserver on November 05, 2021, 07:04:02 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 04, 2021, 09:00:21 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 03, 2021, 12:40:33 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 03, 2021, 10:34:36 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 03, 2021, 09:23:52 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 03, 2021, 12:19:08 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 05:24:34 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 02, 2021, 02:55:52 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 02, 2021, 02:47:40 PM
Strikes me that too many people in this discussion believe there is a pill for every ill. If you are that focused on your good health and that of your loved ones as you undoubtedly are, isn't there an argument to broaden your horizon. For the simple reason there's plenty of other things that will put us in the ground prematurely beyond Covid. There's a worrying level of neuroticism creeping in here.
Chill out to this for half an hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-QO33hfadY

You do understand what a pandemic is?

Think so yes, something along these lines as far as I can tell.
"Pandemic, outbreak of infectious disease that occurs over a wide geographical area and that is of high prevalence, generally affecting a significant proportion of the world's population over the course of several months"
Not terror inducing however for those who are metabolically healthy, hence the video presentation I shared. You should watch it.
Just trying to help.

What does the YouTube recommend for the infections diseases?

It recommends that you stop eating takeaways and porter, adopt a healthy lifestyle and diet. Take personal responsibility for your health, shouldn't be anyones problem but yours.
Go forward with your best possible inate immune system plus judicious medical intervention and go swing the world by the tail.

Wonderful but again how does all that help with controlling the spread and impact of an infectious disease?
That's the thing, there's a false impression that this thing can be controlled in some way. The measures to date haven't done much. There's vaccines that help prevent hospitalisation no doubt but if your are not in good physical shape even it may not save you. So what can you do? Plan A: get yourself in the best possible shape so you can put up a good immune response if/when you catch it and take a vaccine if you want. Plan B: sit in the house, eat and drink rubbish, watch box sets. There's no magic bullet here.

I've known several people now in good physical shape hit hard by Covid and most have been double jabbed. One girl was up to 20miles in her prep for the London Marathon and she now struggles to run a mile without breathing issues.

Does it help to be fit, probably but broad, sweeping statements like that are incorrect.

In cases like this I find it difficult to believe that the vacinne provided any protection or benefit
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 05, 2021, 07:15:30 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on November 05, 2021, 07:04:02 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 04, 2021, 09:00:21 AM
I've known several people now in good physical shape hit hard by Covid and most have been double jabbed. One girl was up to 20miles in her prep for the London Marathon and she now struggles to run a mile without breathing issues.

Does it help to be fit, probably but broad, sweeping statements like that are incorrect.

In cases like this I find it difficult to believe that the vacinne provided any protection or benefit

Sweet Jesus  ;D ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Capt Pat on November 05, 2021, 08:04:00 PM
Good news on the covid front. Pfizer now have a pill that will reduce hospitalisation and death by 90%. That is a pill for when you have caught covid not a vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 05, 2021, 08:26:34 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 05, 2021, 08:04:00 PM
Good news on the covid front. Pfizer now have a pill that will reduce hospitalisation and death by 90%. That is a pill for when you have caught covid not a vaccine.
when is this pill available? and is the pandemic over in places where pill is available.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 05, 2021, 09:21:04 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 05, 2021, 08:04:00 PM
Good news on the covid front. Pfizer now have a pill that will reduce hospitalisation and death by 90%. That is a pill for when you have caught covid not a vaccine.

I've heard of at least three drugs that apparently do similar . But it's obviously the druglord with the fattest brown envelope that gets the approval.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: CK_Redhand on November 05, 2021, 10:01:50 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 05, 2021, 09:21:04 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 05, 2021, 08:04:00 PM
Good news on the covid front. Pfizer now have a pill that will reduce hospitalisation and death by 90%. That is a pill for when you have caught covid not a vaccine.

I've heard of at least three drugs that apparently do similar . But it's obviously the druglord with the fattest brown envelope that gets the approval.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 05, 2021, 10:04:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 05, 2021, 09:21:04 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 05, 2021, 08:04:00 PM
Good news on the covid front. Pfizer now have a pill that will reduce hospitalisation and death by 90%. That is a pill for when you have caught covid not a vaccine.

I've heard of at least three drugs that apparently do similar . But it's obviously the druglord with the fattest brown envelope that gets the approval.

Anecdotal evidence doesn't count.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 05, 2021, 10:24:19 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 05, 2021, 09:21:04 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 05, 2021, 08:04:00 PM
Good news on the covid front. Pfizer now have a pill that will reduce hospitalisation and death by 90%. That is a pill for when you have caught covid not a vaccine.

I've heard of at least three drugs that apparently do similar . But it's obviously the druglord with the fattest brown envelope that gets the approval.

Sure you have.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 05, 2021, 10:56:44 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on November 05, 2021, 10:01:50 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 05, 2021, 09:21:04 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 05, 2021, 08:04:00 PM
Good news on the covid front. Pfizer now have a pill that will reduce hospitalisation and death by 90%. That is a pill for when you have caught covid not a vaccine.

I've heard of at least three drugs that apparently do similar . But it's obviously the druglord with the fattest brown envelope that gets the approval.
There are and they'll probably all get approval. MHRA approved the Merck antiviral Molnupiravir.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebuzz on November 06, 2021, 12:34:50 AM
Quote from: clarshack on November 06, 2021, 12:08:38 AM
Did anyone here get the flu jab and a covid jab/booster at the same time? or does there need to be a bit of time between the 2 different jabs?

My daughter is a doctor and she got both together. My sister-in-law is a nurse and she got both together. I think the general public have been getting them separately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 06, 2021, 02:43:34 AM
so if this  pill works then is there any need to  push the vaccine as hard then  people may take the  pill but not the vaccine but the real crazies  will say the pills are part a secret agenda too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 06, 2021, 02:48:45 AM
if  the pills work then why dont theygive everyone in the country the pills now incase they get covid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 06, 2021, 02:58:45 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 06, 2021, 02:48:45 AM
if  the pills work then why dont theygive everyone in the country the pills now incase they get covid

Some people need pills alright.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 06, 2021, 06:59:37 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 06, 2021, 02:48:45 AM
if  the pills work then why dont theygive everyone in the country the pills now incase they get covid

Because they are €600 a course. And would be wasted on the 99% of the population that do not have Covid right now. Youd essentially be wasting €3 billion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on November 06, 2021, 02:06:49 PM
Quote from: thebuzz on November 06, 2021, 12:34:50 AM
Quote from: clarshack on November 06, 2021, 12:08:38 AM
Did anyone here get the flu jab and a covid jab/booster at the same time? or does there need to be a bit of time between the 2 different jabs?

My daughter is a doctor and she got both together. My sister-in-law is a nurse and she got both together. I think the general public have been getting them separately.

I'd be getting them separate just wondering should I leave a day or 2 or maybe even a week between getting the flu jab and the covid jab.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 07, 2021, 08:59:14 PM
What do you all make of Eamon Ryan's allowance to get his positive test overturned? Anyone know of anybody else having this happen?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 07, 2021, 09:24:28 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 06, 2021, 02:48:45 AM
if  the pills work then why dont theygive everyone in the country the pills now incase they get covid

If SF get in they will give them out for free lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on November 07, 2021, 09:26:52 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 07, 2021, 08:59:14 PM
What do you all make of Eamon Ryan's allowance to get his positive test overturned? Anyone know of anybody else having this happen?

I think it shows how serious this Pandemic really is?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 07, 2021, 09:38:29 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1104/1257971-covid-transmission-europe/

Daily Covid infections have hit an all-time high in Germany as the World Health Organization warned that another 500,000 people could die across Europe, with cases once again on the rise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on November 07, 2021, 10:11:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 07, 2021, 09:24:28 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 06, 2021, 02:48:45 AM
if  the pills work then why dont theygive everyone in the country the pills now incase they get covid

If SF get in they will give them out for free lol

They have their own money orchard. ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on November 07, 2021, 10:14:51 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 07, 2021, 08:59:14 PM
What do you all make of Eamon Ryan's allowance to get his positive test overturned? Anyone know of anybody else having this happen?

It actually seems extremely unusual. Anybody that has received a positive pcr test is surely isolating for 10 days as per guidelines.
      I mean you could understand if the first test was unreadable or some processing fault but why was it announced as a positive.
     
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 07, 2021, 10:32:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 07, 2021, 09:38:29 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1104/1257971-covid-transmission-europe/

Daily Covid infections have hit an all-time high in Germany as the World Health Organization warned that another 500,000 people could die across Europe, with cases once again on the rise.

There are a lot of unvaccinated people in Germany. Brazil or Sri Lanka have a higher proportion vaccinated. Germany has a more robust ICU provision then here, but that number of people likely to become seriously ill will overwhelm them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 07, 2021, 11:21:56 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/1107/1258414-eamon-ryan-covid/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 08, 2021, 08:53:16 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 07, 2021, 09:26:52 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 07, 2021, 08:59:14 PM
What do you all make of Eamon Ryan's allowance to get his positive test overturned? Anyone know of anybody else having this happen?

I think it shows how serious this Pandemic really is?
Exactly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 09:03:40 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 07, 2021, 10:32:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 07, 2021, 09:38:29 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1104/1257971-covid-transmission-europe/

Daily Covid infections have hit an all-time high in Germany as the World Health Organization warned that another 500,000 people could die across Europe, with cases once again on the rise.

There are a lot of unvaccinated people in Germany. Brazil or Sri Lanka have a higher proportion vaccinated. Germany has a more robust ICU provision then here, but that number of people likely to become seriously ill will overwhelm them.
The Covid mortality rate for unvaccinated is 32x the rate for vaccinated.
Most of the 500k modelled will be unvaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 09:12:06 AM
No health system can sustain this if it gets bad. I think in Ireland north or south we would break much quicker as we have a very fragile health system but absolutely no health system could have sustained this if (or tbh in a lot of cases when) it ran wild. Even <1% of people getting hospitalised is a massive number with anything so contagious.

SF where did you get that 32x stat?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on November 08, 2021, 09:31:38 AM
Yes that is a mighty big statement and really needs to be fact checked in terms of reference period in particular i.e. it should only be relevant for the time period post the availability of vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 08, 2021, 09:39:45 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 09:12:06 AM
No health system can sustain this if it gets bad. I think in Ireland north or south we would break much quicker as we have a very fragile health system but absolutely no health system could have sustained this if (or tbh in a lot of cases when) it ran wild. Even <1% of people getting hospitalised is a massive number with anything so contagious.

SF where did you get that 32x stat?

Various media outlets had reported this figure was worked out by 'ONS' statistics based on current past & present mortality rate from/with/result of COVID?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 10:05:07 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 08, 2021, 09:31:38 AM
Yes that is a mighty big statement and really needs to be fact checked in terms of reference period in particular i.e. it should only be relevant for the time period post the availability of vaccine.

Yeah I agree. Also a lot of the anti vaccine stuff needs a lot of fact checking too. Tbh just reflective of the way the world is but some of the shite you read - I think it's magnified at the minute between covid and brexit. There are so many lies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 10:06:08 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 09:12:06 AM
No health system can sustain this if it gets bad. I think in Ireland north or south we would break much quicker as we have a very fragile health system but absolutely no health system could have sustained this if (or tbh in a lot of cases when) it ran wild. Even <1% of people getting hospitalised is a massive number with anything so contagious.

SF where did you get that 32x stat?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-death-risk-32-times-higher-for-the-unvaccinated-figures-suggest-12457074
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 10:09:38 AM
There are different elements to Covid risk for hospitals.

The first is ICU capacity . This is fixed
The second is % unvaccinated
The third is unvaccinated mixing .

Governments don't want lockdowns. Lockdowns protected ICUs. Now  the % unvaccinated is the main driver.
There is no guarantee that ICU capacity is enough given the % unvaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on November 08, 2021, 10:31:10 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 10:09:38 AM
There are different elements to Covid risk for hospitals.

The first is ICU capacity . This is fixed
The second is % unvaccinated
The third is unvaccinated mixing .

Governments don't want lockdowns. Lockdowns protected ICUs. Now  the % unvaccinated is the main driver.
There is no guarantee that ICU capacity is enough given the % unvaccinated.

The 7% that can't mingle in an indoor area, where covid spreads are the main driver for future lockdowns.  ::) Blame the ones who are excluded from society. Some double jabbed folk on here are in for a rude awakening when they get very ill from Covid.  No doubt the vaccine offers huge protection from Covid, not as much as folk think, plenty double jabbed dying at the moment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2021, 10:40:54 AM
Quote from: Rudi on November 08, 2021, 10:31:10 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 10:09:38 AM
There are different elements to Covid risk for hospitals.

The first is ICU capacity . This is fixed
The second is % unvaccinated
The third is unvaccinated mixing .

Governments don't want lockdowns. Lockdowns protected ICUs. Now  the % unvaccinated is the main driver.
There is no guarantee that ICU capacity is enough given the % unvaccinated.

The 7% that can't mingle in an indoor area, where covid spreads are the main driver for future lockdowns.  ::) Blame the ones who are excluded from society. Some double jabbed folk on here are in for a rude awakening when they get very ill from Covid.  No doubt the vaccine offers huge protection from Covid, not as much as folk think, plenty double jabbed dying at the moment.

The 'told you so' brigade will love that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 10:56:25 AM
Quote from: Rudi on November 08, 2021, 10:31:10 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 10:09:38 AM
There are different elements to Covid risk for hospitals.

The first is ICU capacity . This is fixed
The second is % unvaccinated
The third is unvaccinated mixing .

Governments don't want lockdowns. Lockdowns protected ICUs. Now  the % unvaccinated is the main driver.
There is no guarantee that ICU capacity is enough given the % unvaccinated.

The 7% that can't mingle in an indoor area, where covid spreads are the main driver for future lockdowns.  ::) Blame the ones who are excluded from society. Some double jabbed folk on here are in for a rude awakening when they get very ill from Covid.  No doubt the vaccine offers huge protection from Covid, not as much as folk think, plenty double jabbed dying at the moment.

That could very well happen but statistically it is significantly less likely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on November 08, 2021, 11:02:40 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 10:06:08 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 09:12:06 AM
No health system can sustain this if it gets bad. I think in Ireland north or south we would break much quicker as we have a very fragile health system but absolutely no health system could have sustained this if (or tbh in a lot of cases when) it ran wild. Even <1% of people getting hospitalised is a massive number with anything so contagious.

SF where did you get that 32x stat?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-death-risk-32-times-higher-for-the-unvaccinated-figures-suggest-12457074

32 x 0 is still 0 for the all the healthy youths out there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 11:12:07 AM
What are the long covid risks? They're not zero.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 11:43:32 AM
Quote from: Rudi on November 08, 2021, 10:31:10 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 10:09:38 AM
There are different elements to Covid risk for hospitals.

The first is ICU capacity . This is fixed
The second is % unvaccinated
The third is unvaccinated mixing .

Governments don't want lockdowns. Lockdowns protected ICUs. Now  the % unvaccinated is the main driver.
There is no guarantee that ICU capacity is enough given the % unvaccinated.


The 7% that can't mingle in an indoor area, where covid spreads are the main driver for future lockdowns.  ::) Blame the ones who are excluded from society. Some double jabbed folk on here are in for a rude awakening when they get very ill from Covid.  No doubt the vaccine offers huge protection from Covid, not as much as folk think, plenty double jabbed dying at the moment.

The no lockdown policy exposes the unvaccinated. There are breakthrough cases where the vaccinated end up in ICU but vaccination provides higher protection against serious illness. You still have to be careful.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on November 08, 2021, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 11:12:07 AM
What are the long covid risks? They're not zero.

What are the Vaccination risks? They're not zero.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 12:00:55 PM
Covid will probably be with us for a few more winters. Tourism is probably banjaxed for the foreseeable. Sell Ryanair
Vaccinations will only work for so long. Boosters will be the default.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 08, 2021, 12:04:19 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 08, 2021, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 11:12:07 AM
What are the long covid risks? They're not zero.

What are the Vaccination risks? They're not zero.

vaccination risks are less than getting COvid, and pretty much everyone is going to get Covid now.

Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 12:00:55 PM
Covid will probably be with us for a few more winters. Tourism is probably banjaxed for the foreseeable. Sell Ryanair
Vaccinations will only work for so long. Boosters will be the default.

Covid will be with us, but if they can get some more of the unvaxxed jabbed and can vaccinate the children then it will not circulate widely. It remains to be seen when people will need another booster after the current round, likely this will be longer than 6 month anyway. In a year's time an improved vaccine may be available, any improvement would cut down circulation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 12:08:29 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 08, 2021, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 11:12:07 AM
What are the long covid risks? They're not zero.

What are the Vaccination risks? They're not zero.

They're a lot less than the other risks.

Apply statistics and see that the odd article of people with issues is going to happen. Is 1 too many yes. Is 1 less than the outcome of covid? Significantly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 12:36:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 08, 2021, 12:04:19 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 08, 2021, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 11:12:07 AM
What are the long covid risks? They're not zero.

What are the Vaccination risks? They're not zero.

vaccination risks are less than getting COvid, and pretty much everyone is going to get Covid now.

Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 12:00:55 PM
Covid will probably be with us for a few more winters. Tourism is probably banjaxed for the foreseeable. Sell Ryanair
Vaccinations will only work for so long. Boosters will be the default.

Covid will be with us, but if they can get some more of the unvaxxed jabbed and can vaccinate the children then it will not circulate widely. It remains to be seen when people will need another booster after the current round, likely this will be longer than 6 month anyway. In a year's time an improved vaccine may be available, any improvement would cut down circulation.

It will. It will spread in the likes of schools but the  vast majority of children won't suffer badly.   The last few months, very few people are adhering to any guidance at all. Masks are in the minority in shops and among people mixing indoors.  So  to say it's all the fault of the unvaccinated is wrong.

A neighbour of ours kid has been wearing her mask all the time in school,  even in the classroom. Most of the rest aren't , and shes being ridiculed and teased by the others  to the point of  her Coming home in tears.  It'll just be a matter of time before she gives  up wearing it,  if it hasn't happened already . Where's the responsibility of the schools to enforce masks? Why leave this kid out to dry?

It's got to the stage where soon, life will continue similar to pre-pandemic, and nobody will care. Cases  will remain high, and nobody will pay any attention to it.  People will continue to die, and nobody will bat an eyelid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 08, 2021, 12:59:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 12:36:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 08, 2021, 12:04:19 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 08, 2021, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 11:12:07 AM
What are the long covid risks? They're not zero.

What are the Vaccination risks? They're not zero.

vaccination risks are less than getting COvid, and pretty much everyone is going to get Covid now.

Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 12:00:55 PM
Covid will probably be with us for a few more winters. Tourism is probably banjaxed for the foreseeable. Sell Ryanair
Vaccinations will only work for so long. Boosters will be the default.

Covid will be with us, but if they can get some more of the unvaxxed jabbed and can vaccinate the children then it will not circulate widely. It remains to be seen when people will need another booster after the current round, likely this will be longer than 6 month anyway. In a year's time an improved vaccine may be available, any improvement would cut down circulation.

It will. It will spread in the likes of schools but the  vast majority of children won't suffer badly.   The last few months, very few people are adhering to any guidance at all. Masks are in the minority in shops and among people mixing indoors.  So  to say it's all the fault of the unvaccinated is wrong.

A neighbour of ours kid has been wearing her mask all the time in school,  even in the classroom. Most of the rest aren't , and shes being ridiculed and teased by the others  to the point of  her Coming home in tears.  It'll just be a matter of time before she gives  up wearing it,  if it hasn't happened already . Where's the responsibility of the schools to enforce masks? Why leave this kid out to dry?

It's got to the stage where soon, life will continue similar to pre-pandemic, and nobody will care. Cases  will remain high, and nobody will pay any attention to it.  People will continue to die, and nobody will bat an eyelid.

Dunno bout bars and pubs, but in shops where I am it's still about 80%+ wearing masks. And there's nothing to say it's not unvaccinated as much as vaccinated not wearing them.

People will care when the health services are being stretched. People will care if the death rate starts creeping up. You are hoping that it will get to the stage when no one is paying attention to it and you can continue with your life without any inconvenience. Most others are hoping we can get it In check. There is a huge difference.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 01:20:18 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 08, 2021, 12:59:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 12:36:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 08, 2021, 12:04:19 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 08, 2021, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 11:12:07 AM
What are the long covid risks? They're not zero.

What are the Vaccination risks? They're not zero.

vaccination risks are less than getting COvid, and pretty much everyone is going to get Covid now.

Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 12:00:55 PM
Covid will probably be with us for a few more winters. Tourism is probably banjaxed for the foreseeable. Sell Ryanair
Vaccinations will only work for so long. Boosters will be the default.

Covid will be with us, but if they can get some more of the unvaxxed jabbed and can vaccinate the children then it will not circulate widely. It remains to be seen when people will need another booster after the current round, likely this will be longer than 6 month anyway. In a year's time an improved vaccine may be available, any improvement would cut down circulation.

It will. It will spread in the likes of schools but the  vast majority of children won't suffer badly.   The last few months, very few people are adhering to any guidance at all. Masks are in the minority in shops and among people mixing indoors.  So  to say it's all the fault of the unvaccinated is wrong.

A neighbour of ours kid has been wearing her mask all the time in school,  even in the classroom. Most of the rest aren't , and shes being ridiculed and teased by the others  to the point of  her Coming home in tears.  It'll just be a matter of time before she gives  up wearing it,  if it hasn't happened already . Where's the responsibility of the schools to enforce masks? Why leave this kid out to dry?

It's got to the stage where soon, life will continue similar to pre-pandemic, and nobody will care. Cases  will remain high, and nobody will pay any attention to it.  People will continue to die, and nobody will bat an eyelid.

Dunno bout bars and pubs, but in shops where I am it's still about 80%+ wearing masks. And there's nothing to say it's not unvaccinated as much as vaccinated not wearing them.

People will care when the health services are being stretched. People will care if the death rate starts creeping up. You are hoping that it will get to the stage when no one is paying attention to it and you can continue with your life without any inconvenience. Most others are hoping we can get it In check. There is a huge difference.

Aye, because that's what I said  ::)

Any shop I've been in it's  probably 30% mask wearing, if that. And that's from people of  all ages.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 01:26:42 PM
It is way way above 30% anywhere I have been. Yes there are people here and there not wearing masks but from my experience that is in the minority.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 01:43:29 PM
Winter is the biggest risk. This is the first winter with Delta. And Delta is a hoor for transmission.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2021, 01:47:45 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 01:26:42 PM
It is way way above 30% anywhere I have been. Yes there are people here and there not wearing masks but from my experience that is in the minority.

I work in a busy clinic, everyone is wearing masks and no one is allowed in without it, in local shops easy 80% people wearing masks, load wearing those badges allowing them not to (though I believe they are made up) and some clowns not wearing it, its still a requirement so why are they being allowed entry into shops?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on November 08, 2021, 01:49:46 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 07, 2021, 08:59:14 PM
What do you all make of Eamon Ryan's allowance to get his positive test overturned? Anyone know of anybody else having this happen?

English rugby player Owen Farrell had a false positive too. Some people are far to important to be struck down with covid. We do not live in a society of equals. Equality is a myth.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on November 08, 2021, 01:54:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2021, 01:47:45 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 01:26:42 PM
It is way way above 30% anywhere I have been. Yes there are people here and there not wearing masks but from my experience that is in the minority.

I work in a busy clinic, everyone is wearing masks and no one is allowed in without it, in local shops easy 80% people wearing masks, load wearing those badges allowing them not to (though I believe they are made up) and some clowns not wearing it, its still a requirement so why are they being allowed entry into shops?

Where I am close to 100% compliance among the locals, the wans with the yellow number plates - only the odd one wears them. Huff like f"ck, if asked to put one on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 08, 2021, 02:09:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 01:20:18 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 08, 2021, 12:59:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 12:36:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 08, 2021, 12:04:19 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 08, 2021, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 11:12:07 AM
What are the long covid risks? They're not zero.

What are the Vaccination risks? They're not zero.

vaccination risks are less than getting COvid, and pretty much everyone is going to get Covid now.

Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 12:00:55 PM
Covid will probably be with us for a few more winters. Tourism is probably banjaxed for the foreseeable. Sell Ryanair
Vaccinations will only work for so long. Boosters will be the default.

Covid will be with us, but if they can get some more of the unvaxxed jabbed and can vaccinate the children then it will not circulate widely. It remains to be seen when people will need another booster after the current round, likely this will be longer than 6 month anyway. In a year's time an improved vaccine may be available, any improvement would cut down circulation.

It will. It will spread in the likes of schools but the  vast majority of children won't suffer badly.   The last few months, very few people are adhering to any guidance at all. Masks are in the minority in shops and among people mixing indoors.  So  to say it's all the fault of the unvaccinated is wrong.

A neighbour of ours kid has been wearing her mask all the time in school,  even in the classroom. Most of the rest aren't , and shes being ridiculed and teased by the others  to the point of  her Coming home in tears.  It'll just be a matter of time before she gives  up wearing it,  if it hasn't happened already . Where's the responsibility of the schools to enforce masks? Why leave this kid out to dry?

It's got to the stage where soon, life will continue similar to pre-pandemic, and nobody will care. Cases  will remain high, and nobody will pay any attention to it.  People will continue to die, and nobody will bat an eyelid.

Dunno bout bars and pubs, but in shops where I am it's still about 80%+ wearing masks. And there's nothing to say it's not unvaccinated as much as vaccinated not wearing them.

People will care when the health services are being stretched. People will care if the death rate starts creeping up. You are hoping that it will get to the stage when no one is paying attention to it and you can continue with your life without any inconvenience. Most others are hoping we can get it In check. There is a huge difference.

Aye, because that's what I said  ::)

Any shop I've been in it's  probably 30% mask wearing, if that. And that's from people of  all ages.

I think it's a fair representation of your position on Covid.
As mentioned above, It's nowhere near 30% mask wearing. Not even close.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on November 08, 2021, 02:53:37 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 08, 2021, 02:09:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 01:20:18 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 08, 2021, 12:59:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 12:36:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 08, 2021, 12:04:19 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 08, 2021, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 11:12:07 AM
What are the long covid risks? They're not zero.

What are the Vaccination risks? They're not zero.

vaccination risks are less than getting COvid, and pretty much everyone is going to get Covid now.

Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 12:00:55 PM
Covid will probably be with us for a few more winters. Tourism is probably banjaxed for the foreseeable. Sell Ryanair
Vaccinations will only work for so long. Boosters will be the default.

Covid will be with us, but if they can get some more of the unvaxxed jabbed and can vaccinate the children then it will not circulate widely. It remains to be seen when people will need another booster after the current round, likely this will be longer than 6 month anyway. In a year's time an improved vaccine may be available, any improvement would cut down circulation.

It will. It will spread in the likes of schools but the  vast majority of children won't suffer badly.   The last few months, very few people are adhering to any guidance at all. Masks are in the minority in shops and among people mixing indoors.  So  to say it's all the fault of the unvaccinated is wrong.

A neighbour of ours kid has been wearing her mask all the time in school,  even in the classroom. Most of the rest aren't , and shes being ridiculed and teased by the others  to the point of  her Coming home in tears.  It'll just be a matter of time before she gives  up wearing it,  if it hasn't happened already . Where's the responsibility of the schools to enforce masks? Why leave this kid out to dry?

It's got to the stage where soon, life will continue similar to pre-pandemic, and nobody will care. Cases  will remain high, and nobody will pay any attention to it.  People will continue to die, and nobody will bat an eyelid.

Dunno bout bars and pubs, but in shops where I am it's still about 80%+ wearing masks. And there's nothing to say it's not unvaccinated as much as vaccinated not wearing them.

People will care when the health services are being stretched. People will care if the death rate starts creeping up. You are hoping that it will get to the stage when no one is paying attention to it and you can continue with your life without any inconvenience. Most others are hoping we can get it In check. There is a huge difference.

Aye, because that's what I said  ::)

Any shop I've been in it's  probably 30% mask wearing, if that. And that's from people of  all ages.

I think it's a fair representation of your position on Covid.
As mentioned above, It's nowhere near 30% mask wearing. Not even close.
Presume this 30% mask wearing stuff is in the North.

Where I am in Dublin, it's 100% mask wearing in schools and shops. Some pubs though are more lax than others in policing mask wearing when moving. There are two bookies in my area that I drop into on a Saturday morning, and they are both very stringent on no mask = no entry.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 02:57:25 PM
It only seems to be in one place in the north though. I see very high uptake in mask wearing in adults.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 08, 2021, 02:59:17 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 02:57:25 PM
It only seems to be in one place in the north though. I see very high uptake in mask wearing in adults.

And the same place were 100% of those doubled jabbed are going around licking each others faces
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 03:08:48 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 08, 2021, 02:09:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 01:20:18 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 08, 2021, 12:59:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 12:36:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 08, 2021, 12:04:19 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 08, 2021, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 11:12:07 AM
What are the long covid risks? They're not zero.

What are the Vaccination risks? They're not zero.

vaccination risks are less than getting COvid, and pretty much everyone is going to get Covid now.

Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 12:00:55 PM
Covid will probably be with us for a few more winters. Tourism is probably banjaxed for the foreseeable. Sell Ryanair
Vaccinations will only work for so long. Boosters will be the default.

Covid will be with us, but if they can get some more of the unvaxxed jabbed and can vaccinate the children then it will not circulate widely. It remains to be seen when people will need another booster after the current round, likely this will be longer than 6 month anyway. In a year's time an improved vaccine may be available, any improvement would cut down circulation.

It will. It will spread in the likes of schools but the  vast majority of children won't suffer badly.   The last few months, very few people are adhering to any guidance at all. Masks are in the minority in shops and among people mixing indoors.  So  to say it's all the fault of the unvaccinated is wrong.

A neighbour of ours kid has been wearing her mask all the time in school,  even in the classroom. Most of the rest aren't , and shes being ridiculed and teased by the others  to the point of  her Coming home in tears.  It'll just be a matter of time before she gives  up wearing it,  if it hasn't happened already . Where's the responsibility of the schools to enforce masks? Why leave this kid out to dry?

It's got to the stage where soon, life will continue similar to pre-pandemic, and nobody will care. Cases  will remain high, and nobody will pay any attention to it.  People will continue to die, and nobody will bat an eyelid.

Dunno bout bars and pubs, but in shops where I am it's still about 80%+ wearing masks. And there's nothing to say it's not unvaccinated as much as vaccinated not wearing them.

People will care when the health services are being stretched. People will care if the death rate starts creeping up. You are hoping that it will get to the stage when no one is paying attention to it and you can continue with your life without any inconvenience. Most others are hoping we can get it In check. There is a huge difference.

Aye, because that's what I said  ::)

Any shop I've been in it's  probably 30% mask wearing, if that. And that's from people of  all ages.

I think it's a fair representation of your position on Covid.
As mentioned above, It's nowhere near 30% mask wearing. Not even close.

Good luck  finding any post of mine saying so

As for mask wearing. I go into a mixture of shops, from the local store/filling station to the big supermarket. All would rarely be over 50%. A lot of times it's maybe 1 in 4 or 5 wearing them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 08, 2021, 03:09:37 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on November 08, 2021, 02:59:17 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 02:57:25 PM
It only seems to be in one place in the north though. I see very high uptake in mask wearing in adults.

And the same place were 100% of those doubled jabbed are going around licking each others faces

What class of place is this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 08, 2021, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 03:08:48 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 08, 2021, 02:09:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 01:20:18 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 08, 2021, 12:59:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 12:36:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 08, 2021, 12:04:19 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 08, 2021, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 11:12:07 AM
What are the long covid risks? They're not zero.

What are the Vaccination risks? They're not zero.

vaccination risks are less than getting COvid, and pretty much everyone is going to get Covid now.

Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 12:00:55 PM
Covid will probably be with us for a few more winters. Tourism is probably banjaxed for the foreseeable. Sell Ryanair
Vaccinations will only work for so long. Boosters will be the default.

Covid will be with us, but if they can get some more of the unvaxxed jabbed and can vaccinate the children then it will not circulate widely. It remains to be seen when people will need another booster after the current round, likely this will be longer than 6 month anyway. In a year's time an improved vaccine may be available, any improvement would cut down circulation.

It will. It will spread in the likes of schools but the  vast majority of children won't suffer badly.   The last few months, very few people are adhering to any guidance at all. Masks are in the minority in shops and among people mixing indoors.  So  to say it's all the fault of the unvaccinated is wrong.

A neighbour of ours kid has been wearing her mask all the time in school,  even in the classroom. Most of the rest aren't , and shes being ridiculed and teased by the others  to the point of  her Coming home in tears.  It'll just be a matter of time before she gives  up wearing it,  if it hasn't happened already . Where's the responsibility of the schools to enforce masks? Why leave this kid out to dry?

It's got to the stage where soon, life will continue similar to pre-pandemic, and nobody will care. Cases  will remain high, and nobody will pay any attention to it.  People will continue to die, and nobody will bat an eyelid.

Dunno bout bars and pubs, but in shops where I am it's still about 80%+ wearing masks. And there's nothing to say it's not unvaccinated as much as vaccinated not wearing them.

People will care when the health services are being stretched. People will care if the death rate starts creeping up. You are hoping that it will get to the stage when no one is paying attention to it and you can continue with your life without any inconvenience. Most others are hoping we can get it In check. There is a huge difference.

Aye, because that's what I said  ::)

Any shop I've been in it's  probably 30% mask wearing, if that. And that's from people of  all ages.

I think it's a fair representation of your position on Covid.
As mentioned above, It's nowhere near 30% mask wearing. Not even close.

Good luck  finding any post of mine saying so

As for mask wearing. I go into a mixture of shops, from the local store/filling station to the big supermarket. All would rarely be over 50%. A lot of times it's maybe 1 in 4 or 5 wearing them

Ok I'll rephrase that to be fair. You think the vaccines are driven by big pharma and that it's all a master plan to get you on the system. You think there are alternatives to the vaccines but have been unable to put a coherent argument across on that.

But no one believes you with the 30% argument. It's just nonsense.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 08, 2021, 03:50:00 PM
Benny where do you live so that I can avoid going into the shops? I'd reckon in my local shop, petrol station, large supermarket etc. that mask wearing is no less than 70% compliance at the minute and the majority of the 30% are under 30s. Noses sticking out of masks currently sitting at a solid 100% amongst our European friends.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 04:32:58 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 08, 2021, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 03:08:48 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 08, 2021, 02:09:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 01:20:18 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 08, 2021, 12:59:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 12:36:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 08, 2021, 12:04:19 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 08, 2021, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 11:12:07 AM
What are the long covid risks? They're not zero.

What are the Vaccination risks? They're not zero.

vaccination risks are less than getting COvid, and pretty much everyone is going to get Covid now.

Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 12:00:55 PM
Covid will probably be with us for a few more winters. Tourism is probably banjaxed for the foreseeable. Sell Ryanair
Vaccinations will only work for so long. Boosters will be the default.

Covid will be with us, but if they can get some more of the unvaxxed jabbed and can vaccinate the children then it will not circulate widely. It remains to be seen when people will need another booster after the current round, likely this will be longer than 6 month anyway. In a year's time an improved vaccine may be available, any improvement would cut down circulation.

It will. It will spread in the likes of schools but the  vast majority of children won't suffer badly.   The last few months, very few people are adhering to any guidance at all. Masks are in the minority in shops and among people mixing indoors.  So  to say it's all the fault of the unvaccinated is wrong.

A neighbour of ours kid has been wearing her mask all the time in school,  even in the classroom. Most of the rest aren't , and shes being ridiculed and teased by the others  to the point of  her Coming home in tears.  It'll just be a matter of time before she gives  up wearing it,  if it hasn't happened already . Where's the responsibility of the schools to enforce masks? Why leave this kid out to dry?

It's got to the stage where soon, life will continue similar to pre-pandemic, and nobody will care. Cases  will remain high, and nobody will pay any attention to it.  People will continue to die, and nobody will bat an eyelid.

Dunno bout bars and pubs, but in shops where I am it's still about 80%+ wearing masks. And there's nothing to say it's not unvaccinated as much as vaccinated not wearing them.

People will care when the health services are being stretched. People will care if the death rate starts creeping up. You are hoping that it will get to the stage when no one is paying attention to it and you can continue with your life without any inconvenience. Most others are hoping we can get it In check. There is a huge difference.

Aye, because that's what I said  ::)

Any shop I've been in it's  probably 30% mask wearing, if that. And that's from people of  all ages.

I think it's a fair representation of your position on Covid.
As mentioned above, It's nowhere near 30% mask wearing. Not even close.

Good luck  finding any post of mine saying so

As for mask wearing. I go into a mixture of shops, from the local store/filling station to the big supermarket. All would rarely be over 50%. A lot of times it's maybe 1 in 4 or 5 wearing them

Ok I'll rephrase that to be fair. You think the vaccines are driven by big pharma and that it's all a master plan to get you on the system. You think there are alternatives to the vaccines but have been unable to put a coherent argument across on that.

But no one believes you with the 30% argument. It's just nonsense.

Well, big Pharma are making the vaccines aren't they? And do you really think the big pharma are  100% trustful?

Why would I lie about that? I'm merely pointing out what I'm seeing  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 08, 2021, 04:34:16 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 04:32:58 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 08, 2021, 03:39:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 03:08:48 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 08, 2021, 02:09:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 01:20:18 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 08, 2021, 12:59:32 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 12:36:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 08, 2021, 12:04:19 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 08, 2021, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 08, 2021, 11:12:07 AM
What are the long covid risks? They're not zero.

What are the Vaccination risks? They're not zero.

vaccination risks are less than getting COvid, and pretty much everyone is going to get Covid now.

Quote from: seafoid on November 08, 2021, 12:00:55 PM
Covid will probably be with us for a few more winters. Tourism is probably banjaxed for the foreseeable. Sell Ryanair
Vaccinations will only work for so long. Boosters will be the default.

Covid will be with us, but if they can get some more of the unvaxxed jabbed and can vaccinate the children then it will not circulate widely. It remains to be seen when people will need another booster after the current round, likely this will be longer than 6 month anyway. In a year's time an improved vaccine may be available, any improvement would cut down circulation.

It will. It will spread in the likes of schools but the  vast majority of children won't suffer badly.   The last few months, very few people are adhering to any guidance at all. Masks are in the minority in shops and among people mixing indoors.  So  to say it's all the fault of the unvaccinated is wrong.

A neighbour of ours kid has been wearing her mask all the time in school,  even in the classroom. Most of the rest aren't , and shes being ridiculed and teased by the others  to the point of  her Coming home in tears.  It'll just be a matter of time before she gives  up wearing it,  if it hasn't happened already . Where's the responsibility of the schools to enforce masks? Why leave this kid out to dry?

It's got to the stage where soon, life will continue similar to pre-pandemic, and nobody will care. Cases  will remain high, and nobody will pay any attention to it.  People will continue to die, and nobody will bat an eyelid.

Dunno bout bars and pubs, but in shops where I am it's still about 80%+ wearing masks. And there's nothing to say it's not unvaccinated as much as vaccinated not wearing them.

People will care when the health services are being stretched. People will care if the death rate starts creeping up. You are hoping that it will get to the stage when no one is paying attention to it and you can continue with your life without any inconvenience. Most others are hoping we can get it In check. There is a huge difference.

Aye, because that's what I said  ::)

Any shop I've been in it's  probably 30% mask wearing, if that. And that's from people of  all ages.

I think it's a fair representation of your position on Covid.
As mentioned above, It's nowhere near 30% mask wearing. Not even close.

Good luck  finding any post of mine saying so

As for mask wearing. I go into a mixture of shops, from the local store/filling station to the big supermarket. All would rarely be over 50%. A lot of times it's maybe 1 in 4 or 5 wearing them

Ok I'll rephrase that to be fair. You think the vaccines are driven by big pharma and that it's all a master plan to get you on the system. You think there are alternatives to the vaccines but have been unable to put a coherent argument across on that.

But no one believes you with the 30% argument. It's just nonsense.

Well, big Pharma are making the vaccines aren't they? And do you really think the big pharma are  100% trustful?

Why would I lie about that? I'm merely pointing out what I'm seeing  :o

I honestly don't know why you would. But you have.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 08, 2021, 04:43:47 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 08, 2021, 03:50:00 PM
Benny where do you live so that I can avoid going into the shops? I'd reckon in my local shop, petrol station, large supermarket etc. that mask wearing is no less than 70% compliance at the minute and the majority of the 30% are under 30s. Noses sticking out of masks currently sitting at a solid 100% amongst our European friends.

I'm thinking in smaller shops,  when someone nips in to pay for fuel and pick up a  loaf or something, they maybe think "sure I'm only going on for a minute. I won't need a mask".  I've seen in those sort of shops very few wearing, maybe as low as 1 in 4/5.  Larger supermarkets might have  slightly more, as people think they need them as they'll be there longer.

Bookies have signs 'no mask no bet', but few have them on. And some that do are under chin/nose. Similar ratio, 1 in 4/5. A lot of youngsters/teens don't tend to have them but slot of older folk too.

I have noticed in chemist more wear them. The chemists themselves all wear them so maybe the fact that they wear masks  has an affect on customers   wearing them too, I don't know
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 08, 2021, 10:08:56 PM
So is it a fault of the shop keepers or people just being Cnuts and not following the guidelines?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on November 08, 2021, 10:35:51 PM
What this 4th "wave" is really proving is that lockdown was a total nonsense. There have been very few outbreaks in pubs, hotels and restaurants.


The below is from the last week in October, it will be interesting to see if they keep this reporting going as it really is proving Tony H and his anti drinking agenda wrong.



Key Points (Week 43 2021):
 Data on 128 outbreaks were reported to HPSC by regional Departments of Public Health for week 43 2021 (Table 1a, Table 2a, Table 3a)
 Six new nursing home outbreaks were reported with 15 confirmed linked cases
 One new community hospital/long-term care facility outbreak was reported with two
confirmed linked cases
 There were six new acute hospital outbreaks reported with 29 confirmed linked cases
 There were 7 new residential institution outbreaks reported with 31 confirmed linked
cases; six outbreaks were in centres for disabilities and one was in a Children's/TUSLA
residential centre
 There were six outbreaks in other healthcare services (two in clients of home care
services; three in day care centres and one in a GP clinic) with 20 confirmed linked cases
 Eighteen workplace outbreaks were reported with 58 confirmed linked cases; including
two in other food production and processing, two in construction, 11 in other workplace types (including office, commercial, manufacturing, defence/justice/emergency services, health and dental) and three in 'not specified/unknown/other' workplaces
 There were five new outbreaks reported in schools with 32 confirmed linked cases, four in primary schools, and one in a post-primary school
 One outbreak was reported in childcare facilities with two confirmed linked cases
 There was one University/College associated outbreak with three confirmed linked
cases
 There were eight outbreaks related to retail outlets with 25 confirmed linked cases
 There were four new public house associated outbreaks with 11 confirmed linked cases
 There were four new hotel associated outbreaks with 16 confirmed linked cases
 There were three new travel related outbreaks with 19 confirmed linked cases from
Lisbon, Alicante and Malaga
 The remaining 58 outbreaks were across other locations: private houses (n=43)1; social
gatherings (n=4); extended family (n=3); religious/other ceremony (n=3); transport (n=1); restaurant/café (n=1); sporting activity/fitness (n=1); not specified/other locations (n=2)
There were 11 outbreaks reported in vulnerable groups/key populations (Table 1b, 2b 3b):
 Eight of the reported outbreaks (private house=6, extended family=1, social gathering=1) involved Irish Travellers with 47 confirmed linked cases
 There was one outbreak associated with clients of women/children's refuges with two confirmed linked cases
 There was one outbreak in third level students (outbreak location university/college setting) with three confirmed linked cases
 There was one outbreak associated with asylum seekers/refugees with two confirmed linked cases
Figure 1 summarises th

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 09, 2021, 07:26:26 AM
How is it proving lockdown is a total nonsense?

The selective nature of some of it is nonsense yes but the general principle is not. It is just unsustainable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 09, 2021, 07:37:29 AM
seems like the government are trying to blame the pub industry were pub owners not warned that government would do this to them throw them  under the bus hand them a few crumbs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2021, 07:39:56 AM
Lockdowns were used until the vaccine came along. Now the vast majority of deaths concern the unvaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on November 09, 2021, 07:59:57 AM
I think there's a large section of society who would want to take their chances if there was an Ebola outbreak at this stage, sensible phase of the pandemic has ended.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on November 09, 2021, 08:51:08 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 08, 2021, 10:35:51 PM
What this 4th "wave" is really proving is that lockdown was a total nonsense. There have been very few outbreaks in pubs, hotels and restaurants.

So why did cases drop precipitously when every lockdown came in?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2021, 08:51:19 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 09, 2021, 07:59:57 AM
I think there's a large section of society who would want to take their chances if there was an Ebola outbreak at this stage, sensible phase of the pandemic has ended.

Yeah you'd wonder if there was an illness that was killing young ones at a very high rate would they take a 'chance' on a vaccine that would reduce their chances of dying.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on November 09, 2021, 09:23:59 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 09, 2021, 07:26:26 AM
How is it proving lockdown is a total nonsense?

The selective nature of some of it is nonsense yes but the general principle is not. It is just unsustainable.

How long more is NPHET going to be sustainable, if they focussed more on protecting the areas they had control over rather than deflection then more lives may have been saved.

Look at the length of the NPHET members , WTF? How can any logical scientific decision or advice be made with this list of talking heads?

Dr Ronan Glynn, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Prof Philip Nolan, President, National University of Ireland, Maynooth and Chair of the Irish Epidemiological Modelling Advisory Group (IEMAG)
Dr Kevin Kelleher, Assistant National Director, Public Health, HSE
Dr Mary Favier, Past president of the ICGP, Covid-19 advisor
Dr Michael Power, Consultant in Anaesthetics / Intensive Care Medicine, Beaumont Hospital
Ms Rachel Kenna, Chief Nursing Officer, DOH
Ms Tracey Conroy, Assistant Secretary, Acute Hospitals Policy Division, DOH
Dr Colette Bonner, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Prof Mark Ferguson, Director General, Science Foundation Ireland, and Chief Scientific Adviser to the Government of Ireland, SFI
Ms Yvonne O'Neill, National Director, Community Operations, HSE
Mr Fergal Goodman, Assistant Secretary, Primary Care Division, DOH
Dr Breda Smyth, Public Health Specialist, HSE
Dr Máirín Ryan, Deputy Chief Executive and Director of HTA, HIQA
Dr Eibhlín Connolly, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Mr Greg Dempsey, Deputy Secretary, Governance and Performance Division, DOH
Dr Elaine Breslin, Clinical Assessment Manager, HPRA (alternate for Jeanette McCallion)
Dr Catherine Fleming, Consultant in Infectious Diseases, University of Galway
Prof Mary Horgan, President, RCPI
Prof Karina Butler, Chair of the National Immunisation Advisory Committee (NIAC)
Dr Siobhán O'Sullivan, Chief Bioethics Officer, DOH;
Mr Liam Woods, National Director, Acute Operations, HSE
Dr Anna-Rose Prior, Consultant Microbiologist, Tallaght University Hospital
Dr Martin Cormican, HSE National Antimicrobial Resistance and Infection Control (AMRIC)
Dr John Cuddihy, Interim Director, HSE HPSC
Dr Colm Henry, Chief Clinical Officer, HSE
Dr Darina O'Flanagan, Special Advisor to the NPHET
Ms Deirdre Watters, Communications Unit, DOH
Mr Phelim Quinn, Chief Executive Officer, HIQA
   'In Attendance'
   Dr Conor Teljeur, Chief Scientist, HIQA
Ms Aoife Gillivan, Communications Unit, DOH
Ms Laura Casey, NPHET Policy Unit, DOH
Ms Sheona Gilsenan, Senior Health Data Analyst R&D & Health Analytics Division, DOH Ms Sarah Glavey, Health Protection Coordination & Support Unit, DOH
Dr Trish Markham, HSE (Alternate for Tom McGuinness)
Dr Louise Hendrick, Specialist Registrar in Public Health Medicine, DOH
Dr Robert Conway, Specialist Registrar, DOH
Ms Pauline White, Statistics & Analytics Unit, DOH
Ms Elizabeth McCrohan, Statistics and Analytics Unit, DOH
Mr Michael O'Leary, Public Health Policy Unit, DOH
Secretariat
Dr Keith Lyons, Ms Ruth Brandon, Mr Ivan Murphy, Ms Emily Kilroy, Mr Liam Hawkes, Ms Fiona Tynan, Mr Liam Robinson, DOH
   Apologies
   Prof Colm Bergin, Consultant in Infectious Diseases, St James's Hospital
Dr Cillian de Gascun, Laboratory Director, NVRL
Ms Fidelma Browne, Head of Programmes and Campaigns, HSE Communications Dr Siobhán Ní Bhriain, Lead for Integrated Care, HSE
Dr Lorraine Doherty, National Clinical Director Health Protection, HSE
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 09, 2021, 09:38:40 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 09, 2021, 09:23:59 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 09, 2021, 07:26:26 AM
How is it proving lockdown is a total nonsense?

The selective nature of some of it is nonsense yes but the general principle is not. It is just unsustainable.

How long more is NPHET going to be sustainable, if they focussed more on protecting the areas they had control over rather than deflection then more lives may have been saved.

Look at the length of the NPHET members , WTF? How can any logical scientific decision or advice be made with this list of talking heads?

Dr Ronan Glynn, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Prof Philip Nolan, President, National University of Ireland, Maynooth and Chair of the Irish Epidemiological Modelling Advisory Group (IEMAG)
Dr Kevin Kelleher, Assistant National Director, Public Health, HSE
Dr Mary Favier, Past president of the ICGP, Covid-19 advisor
Dr Michael Power, Consultant in Anaesthetics / Intensive Care Medicine, Beaumont Hospital
Ms Rachel Kenna, Chief Nursing Officer, DOH
Ms Tracey Conroy, Assistant Secretary, Acute Hospitals Policy Division, DOH
Dr Colette Bonner, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Prof Mark Ferguson, Director General, Science Foundation Ireland, and Chief Scientific Adviser to the Government of Ireland, SFI
Ms Yvonne O'Neill, National Director, Community Operations, HSE
Mr Fergal Goodman, Assistant Secretary, Primary Care Division, DOH
Dr Breda Smyth, Public Health Specialist, HSE
Dr Máirín Ryan, Deputy Chief Executive and Director of HTA, HIQA
Dr Eibhlín Connolly, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Mr Greg Dempsey, Deputy Secretary, Governance and Performance Division, DOH
Dr Elaine Breslin, Clinical Assessment Manager, HPRA (alternate for Jeanette McCallion)
Dr Catherine Fleming, Consultant in Infectious Diseases, University of Galway
Prof Mary Horgan, President, RCPI
Prof Karina Butler, Chair of the National Immunisation Advisory Committee (NIAC)
Dr Siobhán O'Sullivan, Chief Bioethics Officer, DOH;
Mr Liam Woods, National Director, Acute Operations, HSE
Dr Anna-Rose Prior, Consultant Microbiologist, Tallaght University Hospital
Dr Martin Cormican, HSE National Antimicrobial Resistance and Infection Control (AMRIC)
Dr John Cuddihy, Interim Director, HSE HPSC
Dr Colm Henry, Chief Clinical Officer, HSE
Dr Darina O'Flanagan, Special Advisor to the NPHET
Ms Deirdre Watters, Communications Unit, DOH
Mr Phelim Quinn, Chief Executive Officer, HIQA
   'In Attendance'
   Dr Conor Teljeur, Chief Scientist, HIQA
Ms Aoife Gillivan, Communications Unit, DOH
Ms Laura Casey, NPHET Policy Unit, DOH
Ms Sheona Gilsenan, Senior Health Data Analyst R&D & Health Analytics Division, DOH Ms Sarah Glavey, Health Protection Coordination & Support Unit, DOH
Dr Trish Markham, HSE (Alternate for Tom McGuinness)
Dr Louise Hendrick, Specialist Registrar in Public Health Medicine, DOH
Dr Robert Conway, Specialist Registrar, DOH
Ms Pauline White, Statistics & Analytics Unit, DOH
Ms Elizabeth McCrohan, Statistics and Analytics Unit, DOH
Mr Michael O'Leary, Public Health Policy Unit, DOH
Secretariat
Dr Keith Lyons, Ms Ruth Brandon, Mr Ivan Murphy, Ms Emily Kilroy, Mr Liam Hawkes, Ms Fiona Tynan, Mr Liam Robinson, DOH
   Apologies
   Prof Colm Bergin, Consultant in Infectious Diseases, St James's Hospital
Dr Cillian de Gascun, Laboratory Director, NVRL
Ms Fidelma Browne, Head of Programmes and Campaigns, HSE Communications Dr Siobhán Ní Bhriain, Lead for Integrated Care, HSE
Dr Lorraine Doherty, National Clinical Director Health Protection, HSE

You have an issue with the number of members in NPHET? Waterford Whispers could run with this post
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 09, 2021, 09:39:53 AM
It's getting increasingly hard to work out what is satire on this thread and what isn't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on November 09, 2021, 09:50:48 AM
QuoteYou have an issue with the number of members in NPHET? Waterford Whispers could run with this post

Anything critical or opposing on this board, particularly when it's Covid related then the snowflakes appear with smart ass responses.

When there are that many people of the same personality and the same profession then it leads to group think. No consequences of lockdown would ever have been discussed in the NPHET meetings. Time will tell, but the unintended consequences of lockdown both economically and in relation to the health of the nation will come to the fore over the coming months. The waiting lists for standard care is already out of control.

As regards the numbers on the NPHET team, I have an issue with NPHET still been in existence, this is no longer an emergency or a national crises. Time to downsize or "rebrand".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 09, 2021, 10:10:46 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 09, 2021, 09:50:48 AM
QuoteYou have an issue with the number of members in NPHET? Waterford Whispers could run with this post

Anything critical or opposing on this board, particularly when it's Covid related then the snowflakes appear with smart ass responses.

When there are that many people of the same personality and the same profession then it leads to group think. No consequences of lockdown would ever have been discussed in the NPHET meetings. Time will tell, but the unintended consequences of lockdown both economically and in relation to the health of the nation will come to the fore over the coming months. The waiting lists for standard care is already out of control.

As regards the numbers on the NPHET team, I have an issue with NPHET still been in existence, this is no longer an emergency or a national crises. Time to downsize or "rebrand".

Do you think no lockdowns, and therefore the vastly increased levels of Covid would have been beneficial financially with the impact on businesses of loss of workers through illness, self isolation, caring for children who were isolating etc, Helped the medical profession (including mental health) who were destroyed with staffing numbers due to illness and self isolation etc? Talk me through how higher levels of Covid would have sorted this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on November 09, 2021, 10:18:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2021, 07:39:56 AM
Lockdowns were used until the vaccine came along. Now the vast majority of deaths concern the unvaccinated.
[/b]

As per HSE, between 01/04/21 & 30/10/21

313/535 deaths received at least 1 vaccine dose. ie 58.5 %

47.3% fully vaccinated post 14 day spell died.

What you posted is incorrect as per HSE information.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 09, 2021, 10:19:20 AM
One thing we're seeing in this pandemic is evolution in real time, ie survival of the fittest. At the moment there is an extremely low risk of vaccinated people getting ill or dying. Almost all Covid deaths are now among the unvaccinated. Many of those are anti vax idiots whose deaths could've easily been prevented. There are still ordinary, decent people dying unfortunately but the vast majority are science deniers and idiots.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on November 09, 2021, 10:26:58 AM
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/13/10/3596
would seem sensible amidst the confusing narratives to spread your bets.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 09, 2021, 10:27:20 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 09, 2021, 09:50:48 AM
QuoteYou have an issue with the number of members in NPHET? Waterford Whispers could run with this post

Anything critical or opposing on this board, particularly when it's Covid related then the snowflakes appear with smart ass responses.

When there are that many people of the same personality and the same profession then it leads to group think. No consequences of lockdown would ever have been discussed in the NPHET meetings. Time will tell, but the unintended consequences of lockdown both economically and in relation to the health of the nation will come to the fore over the coming months. The waiting lists for standard care is already out of control.

As regards the numbers on the NPHET team, I have an issue with NPHET still been in existence, this is no longer an emergency or a national crises. Time to downsize or "rebrand".

It's nothing to do with critical or opposing. You posted some speel about proving lockdowns don't work and it didn't seem to do anything of the sort?

The last post is harsh, over the top and probably far from accurate too tbf.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 09, 2021, 10:45:00 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 09, 2021, 09:50:48 AM
QuoteYou have an issue with the number of members in NPHET? Waterford Whispers could run with this post

Anything critical or opposing on this board, particularly when it's Covid related then the snowflakes appear with smart ass responses.

When there are that many people of the same personality and the same profession then it leads to group think. No consequences of lockdown would ever have been discussed in the NPHET meetings. Time will tell, but the unintended consequences of lockdown both economically and in relation to the health of the nation will come to the fore over the coming months. The waiting lists for standard care is already out of control.


Once you see mention of waiting lists then you know that the argument is manure. Lockdown reduced the number of people in hospital and so reduced pressure on waiting lists, people on waiting lists needed more lockdown, not less. Yet this untruthful argument appears again and again that somehow these people would have done better if there had been even more people in hospital. This is Boris Johnson logic, and nobody believes it except those who suspend their brain because it suits their agenda.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on November 09, 2021, 11:00:30 AM
My point all along is that locking up the healthy for the last 2 x summers was an incorrect policy and likely caused by groupthink.

This has now without doubt led to the general population been more vulnerable to every sort of virus going around, whereby there remains a high level of disease spreading in the community.

This in turn has led to the unintended consequence of more people getting ill during the Winter and therefore clogging up the whole health system.

If the opposing voices to this argument fail to see this then you are also part of the groupthink whereby you believe that the extreme lockdown was some sort of success.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 09, 2021, 11:07:07 AM
The thing was rife at the time - absolutely rife. Something had to be done.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2021, 11:09:31 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 09, 2021, 11:00:30 AM
My point all along is that locking up the healthy for the last 2 x summers was an incorrect policy and likely caused by groupthink.

This has now without doubt led to the general population been more vulnerable to every sort of virus going around, whereby there remains a high level of disease spreading in the community.

This in turn has led to the unintended consequence of more people getting ill during the Winter and therefore clogging up the whole health system.

If the opposing voices to this argument fail to see this then you are also part of the groupthink whereby you believe that the extreme lockdown was some sort of success.
Open borders + no vaccine = lockdown.
ICU capacity in both Ireland and the UK is lower than EU average and not capable of dealing with a virus such as Covid without restrictions either in the form of lockdown or vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2021, 11:30:30 AM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40740210.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 09, 2021, 11:35:58 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 09, 2021, 11:00:30 AM
My point all along is that locking up the healthy for the last 2 x summers was an incorrect policy and likely caused by groupthink.

This has now without doubt led to the general population been more vulnerable to every sort of virus going around, whereby there remains a high level of disease spreading in the community.

This in turn has led to the unintended consequence of more people getting ill during the Winter and therefore clogging up the whole health system.

If the opposing voices to this argument fail to see this then you are also part of the groupthink whereby you believe that the extreme lockdown was some sort of success.

Again talk me through how increased levels of Covid was going to help the whole health service. I'm just struggling on this bit....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 09, 2021, 11:44:10 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 09, 2021, 11:00:30 AM
My point all along is that locking up the healthy for the last 2 x summers was an incorrect policy and likely caused by groupthink.

People were not locked up over the last two summers. I went to Kerry and the West of Ireland on my holidays.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 09, 2021, 12:44:48 PM
so they want a hotline to report pubs  that maybe ignoring rules so what happens when they get bombarded with calls  because seats are not 2 meters apart or the bar tender wore mask on their chin and anyone with a grudge against a bar owner could use it also bar owners could be put  in bad situations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2021, 12:59:38 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 09, 2021, 10:18:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 09, 2021, 07:39:56 AM
Lockdowns were used until the vaccine came along. Now the vast majority of deaths concern the unvaccinated.
[/b]

As per HSE, between 01/04/21 & 30/10/21

313/535 deaths received at least 1 vaccine dose. ie 58.5 %

47.3% fully vaccinated post 14 day spell died.

What you posted is incorrect as per HSE information.
Deaths were not statistically significant over the summer.
September to March is the period to watch. Vaccination gives protection against serious illness and death.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 09, 2021, 01:53:31 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 09, 2021, 11:35:58 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 09, 2021, 11:00:30 AM
My point all along is that locking up the healthy for the last 2 x summers was an incorrect policy and likely caused by groupthink.

This has now without doubt led to the general population been more vulnerable to every sort of virus going around, whereby there remains a high level of disease spreading in the community.

This in turn has led to the unintended consequence of more people getting ill during the Winter and therefore clogging up the whole health system.

If the opposing voices to this argument fail to see this then you are also part of the groupthink whereby you believe that the extreme lockdown was some sort of success.

Again talk me through how increased levels of Covid was going to help the whole health service. I'm just struggling on this bit....

I think we all await this explanation with interest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on November 09, 2021, 03:46:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 09, 2021, 11:44:10 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 09, 2021, 11:00:30 AM
My point all along is that locking up the healthy for the last 2 x summers was an incorrect policy and likely caused by groupthink.

People were not locked up over the last two summers. I went to Kerry and the West of Ireland on my holidays.
higorlow on the same level as being "economic with the truth" as Bennycake.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on November 09, 2021, 03:48:28 PM
QuoteI think we all await this explanation with interest.

If you haven't copped on to the fact that this virus is going nowhere until such time as a vast majority of the population come in contact with it then your living in cloud cookoo land.

They knew way back that the vaccines are only another "tool" to fight it, not to get rid of it.

So you prefer that this virus has a chance to spread now during the winter months rather than during the summer time when peoples immune levels are stronger.

Sweden now has a third of our daily cases at present with twice our population. NPHET had too many ZERO Covid people in place, I believe a more balanced approach would've been more appropriate.

To the poster in Kerry on holidays, I hope you enjoyed your 9 euro meal and/or outdoor pints on your holiday. Pity you weren't able to go to a full house GAA match in Fitzgearld Stadium while you were down there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on November 09, 2021, 04:04:29 PM
Wow, is somebody really saying the Swedish way was better than the Irish way?
Just ignore the death rate!

There are not many Swedes who believe at this stage that their strategy was best. A death rate of 500%-600% more than their neighbours in Norway and Finland.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on November 09, 2021, 04:05:57 PM
France advises against Moderna vaccine for under-30s over rare heart risk

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2021/1109/1258870-france-vaccine/

First chink in the the MRNA armour
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 09, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 09, 2021, 04:05:57 PM
France advises against Moderna vaccine for under-30s over rare heart risk

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2021/1109/1258870-france-vaccine/

First chink in the the MRNA armour

Not really, they suggest that you get Pfizer instead. They are not suggesting not getting vacinated, Covid will give you at least that risk.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 09, 2021, 04:26:46 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 10:19:20 AM
One thing we're seeing in this pandemic is evolution in real time, ie survival of the fittest. At the moment there is an extremely low risk of vaccinated people getting ill or dying. Almost all Covid deaths are now among the unvaccinated. Many of those are anti vax idiots whose deaths could've easily been prevented. There are still ordinary, decent people dying unfortunately but the vast majority are science deniers and idiots.

Do you know that for a fact, or are you just believing what the  mainstream media  are feeding you?  There are many reasons people choose not to get vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on November 09, 2021, 04:33:54 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 09, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 09, 2021, 04:05:57 PM
France advises against Moderna vaccine for under-30s over rare heart risk

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2021/1109/1258870-france-vaccine/

First chink in the the MRNA armour

Not really, they suggest that you get Pfizer instead. They are not suggesting not getting vacinated, Covid will give you at least that risk.
Singapore advise no strenuous exercise within 7 days of an MRNA vaccine.

I've done some research on this for personal reasons. The vaccine is at its strongest for the first few days as it works around your body, so combining that with your heart working really hard can have an impact for a small number of people. Ideally (in my opinion) all countries should issue the same advice for the first 5-7 days, but the anti-vaxxers jump on it as "evidence" that the vaccines are dangerous, when it's a very small amount of people impacted, and if they got Covid they'd be far more likely to have the side effect. 

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 09, 2021, 04:35:28 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 09, 2021, 04:26:46 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 10:19:20 AM
One thing we're seeing in this pandemic is evolution in real time, ie survival of the fittest. At the moment there is an extremely low risk of vaccinated people getting ill or dying. Almost all Covid deaths are now among the unvaccinated. Many of those are anti vax idiots whose deaths could've easily been prevented. There are still ordinary, decent people dying unfortunately but the vast majority are science deniers and idiots.

Do you know that for a fact, or are you just believing what the  mainstream media  are feeding you?  There are many reasons people choose not to get vaccinated.

Genuine question... where do you get your news from?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 09, 2021, 04:41:56 PM
Quote from: highorlow on November 09, 2021, 03:48:28 PM
QuoteI think we all await this explanation with interest.

If you haven't copped on to the fact that this virus is going nowhere until such time as a vast majority of the population come in contact with it then your living in cloud cookoo land.

They knew way back that the vaccines are only another "tool" to fight it, not to get rid of it.

So you prefer that this virus has a chance to spread now during the winter months rather than during the summer time when peoples immune levels are stronger.

Sweden now has a third of our daily cases at present with twice our population. NPHET had too many ZERO Covid people in place, I believe a more balanced approach would've been more appropriate.

To the poster in Kerry on holidays, I hope you enjoyed your 9 euro meal and/or outdoor pints on your holiday. Pity you weren't able to go to a full house GAA match in Fitzgearld Stadium while you were down there.

So just to be clear, you think it should have been let rip? Or can you explain what the more balanced approach was?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 09, 2021, 04:49:52 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 09, 2021, 04:35:28 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 09, 2021, 04:26:46 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 10:19:20 AM
One thing we're seeing in this pandemic is evolution in real time, ie survival of the fittest. At the moment there is an extremely low risk of vaccinated people getting ill or dying. Almost all Covid deaths are now among the unvaccinated. Many of those are anti vax idiots whose deaths could've easily been prevented. There are still ordinary, decent people dying unfortunately but the vast majority are science deniers and idiots.

Do you know that for a fact, or are you just believing what the  mainstream media  are feeding you?  There are many reasons people choose not to get vaccinated.

Genuine question... where do you get your news from?
Looks like he's influenced by right wing media news.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 09, 2021, 04:57:57 PM
All media is skewed. It doesn't mean it's right wing because it's not "mainstream media". The reality is "MSM" is probably skewed but anyone saying that is probably reading news from places equally or more skewed!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 09, 2021, 05:22:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 09, 2021, 04:26:46 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 10:19:20 AM
One thing we're seeing in this pandemic is evolution in real time, ie survival of the fittest. At the moment there is an extremely low risk of vaccinated people getting ill or dying. Almost all Covid deaths are now among the unvaccinated. Many of those are anti vax idiots whose deaths could've easily been prevented. There are still ordinary, decent people dying unfortunately but the vast majority are science deniers and idiots.

Do you know that for a fact, or are you just believing what the  mainstream media  are feeding you?  There are many reasons people choose not to get vaccinated.

The vast majority of people have got vaccinated because they believe the scientists ie the experts in this field and they know they will get excellent protection against serious illness. People who aren't getting vaccinated obviously don't trust the scientists for whatever reason but often it's because they've seen youtube or facebook conspiracy theories. Those people who haven't been vaccinated are therefore unprotected and are way more likely to become ill and a proportion of those will then die. A peer reviewed study the other day showed you are 32 times more likely to die if you haven't been vaccinated. That's a study of real life data checked and verified by other scientists.I prefer to trust peer reviewed scientific studies rather than anecdotes on youtube which are often deliberate misinformation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on November 09, 2021, 06:57:36 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 05:22:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 09, 2021, 04:26:46 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 10:19:20 AM
One thing we're seeing in this pandemic is evolution in real time, ie survival of the fittest. At the moment there is an extremely low risk of vaccinated people getting ill or dying. Almost all Covid deaths are now among the unvaccinated. Many of those are anti vax idiots whose deaths could've easily been prevented. There are still ordinary, decent people dying unfortunately but the vast majority are science deniers and idiots.

Do you know that for a fact, or are you just believing what the  mainstream media  are feeding you?  There are many reasons people choose not to get vaccinated.

The vast majority of people have got vaccinated because they believe the scientists ie the experts in this field and they know they will get excellent protection against serious illness. People who aren't getting vaccinated obviously don't trust the scientists for whatever reason but often it's because they've seen youtube or facebook conspiracy theories. Those people who haven't been vaccinated are therefore unprotected and are way more likely to become ill and a proportion of those will then die. A peer reviewed study the other day showed you are 32 times more likely to die if you haven't been vaccinated. That's a study of real life data checked and verified by other scientists.I prefer to trust peer reviewed scientific studies rather than anecdotes on youtube which are often deliberate misinformation.
Good stuff, any chance of a link to that study?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 09, 2021, 07:09:05 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 09, 2021, 06:57:36 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 05:22:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 09, 2021, 04:26:46 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 10:19:20 AM
One thing we're seeing in this pandemic is evolution in real time, ie survival of the fittest. At the moment there is an extremely low risk of vaccinated people getting ill or dying. Almost all Covid deaths are now among the unvaccinated. Many of those are anti vax idiots whose deaths could've easily been prevented. There are still ordinary, decent people dying unfortunately but the vast majority are science deniers and idiots.

Do you know that for a fact, or are you just believing what the  mainstream media  are feeding you?  There are many reasons people choose not to get vaccinated.

The vast majority of people have got vaccinated because they believe the scientists ie the experts in this field and they know they will get excellent protection against serious illness. People who aren't getting vaccinated obviously don't trust the scientists for whatever reason but often it's because they've seen youtube or facebook conspiracy theories. Those people who haven't been vaccinated are therefore unprotected and are way more likely to become ill and a proportion of those will then die. A peer reviewed study the other day showed you are 32 times more likely to die if you haven't been vaccinated. That's a study of real life data checked and verified by other scientists.I prefer to trust peer reviewed scientific studies rather than anecdotes on youtube which are often deliberate misinformation.
Good stuff, any chance of a link to that study?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/anti-vaxxers-covid-deaths-ons-b1949037.html

It's reported here in the Independent from ONS data. I've seen it also in Science journals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on November 09, 2021, 07:10:51 PM
QuoteWow, is somebody really saying the Swedish way was better than the Irish way?
Just ignore the death rate

Wow, someone is. Have a read.

https://unherd.com/2021/11/how-sweden-swerved-covid-disaster/

To date Sweden is slightly higher than us in deaths per million. It's likely we will end up with a similar ratio to them.

Anyhow, I'm sure there will be loads of analysis on the rights and wrongs of this over the next decade. My viewpoint is locking up the healthy will, in the long term, be seen as a major error and a more balanced approach ought to have been taken.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 09, 2021, 07:42:22 PM

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1109/1258757-coronavirus-ireland/


There are 15 adult ICU beds free in the public system.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on November 09, 2021, 09:41:07 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 07:09:05 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 09, 2021, 06:57:36 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 05:22:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 09, 2021, 04:26:46 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 10:19:20 AM
One thing we're seeing in this pandemic is evolution in real time, ie survival of the fittest. At the moment there is an extremely low risk of vaccinated people getting ill or dying. Almost all Covid deaths are now among the unvaccinated. Many of those are anti vax idiots whose deaths could've easily been prevented. There are still ordinary, decent people dying unfortunately but the vast majority are science deniers and idiots.

Do you know that for a fact, or are you just believing what the  mainstream media  are feeding you?  There are many reasons people choose not to get vaccinated.

The vast majority of people have got vaccinated because they believe the scientists ie the experts in this field and they know they will get excellent protection against serious illness. People who aren't getting vaccinated obviously don't trust the scientists for whatever reason but often it's because they've seen youtube or facebook conspiracy theories. Those people who haven't been vaccinated are therefore unprotected and are way more likely to become ill and a proportion of those will then die. A peer reviewed study the other day showed you are 32 times more likely to die if you haven't been vaccinated. That's a study of real life data checked and verified by other scientists.I prefer to trust peer reviewed scientific studies rather than anecdotes on youtube which are often deliberate misinformation.
Good stuff, any chance of a link to that study?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/anti-vaxxers-covid-deaths-ons-b1949037.html

It's reported here in the Independent from ONS data. I've seen it also in Science journals.

Cheers, would rather have a look at the study and how they reached their conclusions. No longer inclined to follow media stories as gospel any more.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 09, 2021, 09:56:01 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 09, 2021, 09:41:07 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 07:09:05 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 09, 2021, 06:57:36 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 05:22:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 09, 2021, 04:26:46 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 10:19:20 AM
One thing we're seeing in this pandemic is evolution in real time, ie survival of the fittest. At the moment there is an extremely low risk of vaccinated people getting ill or dying. Almost all Covid deaths are now among the unvaccinated. Many of those are anti vax idiots whose deaths could've easily been prevented. There are still ordinary, decent people dying unfortunately but the vast majority are science deniers and idiots.

Do you know that for a fact, or are you just believing what the  mainstream media  are feeding you?  There are many reasons people choose not to get vaccinated.

The vast majority of people have got vaccinated because they believe the scientists ie the experts in this field and they know they will get excellent protection against serious illness. People who aren't getting vaccinated obviously don't trust the scientists for whatever reason but often it's because they've seen youtube or facebook conspiracy theories. Those people who haven't been vaccinated are therefore unprotected and are way more likely to become ill and a proportion of those will then die. A peer reviewed study the other day showed you are 32 times more likely to die if you haven't been vaccinated. That's a study of real life data checked and verified by other scientists.I prefer to trust peer reviewed scientific studies rather than anecdotes on youtube which are often deliberate misinformation.
Good stuff, any chance of a link to that study?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/anti-vaxxers-covid-deaths-ons-b1949037.html

It's reported here in the Independent from ONS data. I've seen it also in Science journals.

Cheers, would rather have a look at the study and how they reached their conclusions. No longer inclined to follow media stories as gospel any more.

Are you saying you don't trust the data from the Office for National Statistics or that you don't trust the media? This report from the ONS was widely reported and is freely available.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 09, 2021, 10:05:37 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 05:22:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 09, 2021, 04:26:46 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 10:19:20 AM
One thing we're seeing in this pandemic is evolution in real time, ie survival of the fittest. At the moment there is an extremely low risk of vaccinated people getting ill or dying. Almost all Covid deaths are now among the unvaccinated. Many of those are anti vax idiots whose deaths could've easily been prevented. There are still ordinary, decent people dying unfortunately but the vast majority are science deniers and idiots.

Do you know that for a fact, or are you just believing what the  mainstream media  are feeding you?  There are many reasons people choose not to get vaccinated.

The vast majority of people have got vaccinated because they believe the scientists ie the experts in this field and they know they will get excellent protection against serious illness. People who aren't getting vaccinated obviously don't trust the scientists for whatever reason but often it's because they've seen youtube or facebook conspiracy theories. Those people who haven't been vaccinated are therefore unprotected and are way more likely to become ill and a proportion of those will then die. A peer reviewed study the other day showed you are 32 times more likely to die if you haven't been vaccinated. That's a study of real life data checked and verified by other scientists.I prefer to trust peer reviewed scientific studies rather than anecdotes on youtube which are often deliberate misinformation.

Yes many did. But many also only got vaccinated because they wanted to travel, go to concerts/sports events, visit a pub/restaurant, or keep their jobs, or visit loved ones in care homes etc.  There are many who got vaccinated who don't trust the vaccine or the science , but they just see vaccination as a means to  do certain things.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 09, 2021, 10:25:00 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 09, 2021, 10:05:37 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 05:22:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 09, 2021, 04:26:46 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 10:19:20 AM
One thing we're seeing in this pandemic is evolution in real time, ie survival of the fittest. At the moment there is an extremely low risk of vaccinated people getting ill or dying. Almost all Covid deaths are now among the unvaccinated. Many of those are anti vax idiots whose deaths could've easily been prevented. There are still ordinary, decent people dying unfortunately but the vast majority are science deniers and idiots.

Do you know that for a fact, or are you just believing what the  mainstream media  are feeding you?  There are many reasons people choose not to get vaccinated.

The vast majority of people have got vaccinated because they believe the scientists ie the experts in this field and they know they will get excellent protection against serious illness. People who aren't getting vaccinated obviously don't trust the scientists for whatever reason but often it's because they've seen youtube or facebook conspiracy theories. Those people who haven't been vaccinated are therefore unprotected and are way more likely to become ill and a proportion of those will then die. A peer reviewed study the other day showed you are 32 times more likely to die if you haven't been vaccinated. That's a study of real life data checked and verified by other scientists.I prefer to trust peer reviewed scientific studies rather than anecdotes on youtube which are often deliberate misinformation.

Yes many did. But many also only got vaccinated because they wanted to travel, go to concerts/sports events, visit a pub/restaurant, or keep their jobs, or visit loved ones in care homes etc.  There are many who got vaccinated who don't trust the vaccine or the science , but they just see vaccination as a means to  do certain things.

I would agree with you to an extent, I'd say only a small minority got vaccinated for those reasons. Everyone I know got vaccinated to protect themselves or family members. Also they couldn't wait to get vaccinated. Either way it's great they did though because the more people vaccinated the quicker we get back to normality. I do know 2 people who are refusing the vaccine but they are so far down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole that I can see no way back for them. They just embarrass themselves in company nowadays.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 09, 2021, 11:44:20 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 09, 2021, 09:41:07 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 07:09:05 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 09, 2021, 06:57:36 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 05:22:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 09, 2021, 04:26:46 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 10:19:20 AM
One thing we're seeing in this pandemic is evolution in real time, ie survival of the fittest. At the moment there is an extremely low risk of vaccinated people getting ill or dying. Almost all Covid deaths are now among the unvaccinated. Many of those are anti vax idiots whose deaths could've easily been prevented. There are still ordinary, decent people dying unfortunately but the vast majority are science deniers and idiots.

Do you know that for a fact, or are you just believing what the  mainstream media  are feeding you?  There are many reasons people choose not to get vaccinated.

The vast majority of people have got vaccinated because they believe the scientists ie the experts in this field and they know they will get excellent protection against serious illness. People who aren't getting vaccinated obviously don't trust the scientists for whatever reason but often it's because they've seen youtube or facebook conspiracy theories. Those people who haven't been vaccinated are therefore unprotected and are way more likely to become ill and a proportion of those will then die. A peer reviewed study the other day showed you are 32 times more likely to die if you haven't been vaccinated. That's a study of real life data checked and verified by other scientists.I prefer to trust peer reviewed scientific studies rather than anecdotes on youtube which are often deliberate misinformation.
Good stuff, any chance of a link to that study?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/anti-vaxxers-covid-deaths-ons-b1949037.html

It's reported here in the Independent from ONS data. I've seen it also in Science journals.

Cheers, would rather have a look at the study and how they reached their conclusions. No longer inclined to follow media stories as gospel any more.
Knock yourself out.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19byvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween2januaryand24september2021 (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19byvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween2januaryand24september2021)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on November 09, 2021, 11:55:08 PM
All the research is now very clear that natural immunity provides as much protection from infection/hospitilization as the vaccinated. The very widely reported on study from Israel showed its 27 times more protection against Delta than being double vaccinated.

Ireland however had literally the longest, strictest, lockdowns in Europe. As a result we have one of the lowest natural immunity levels in Europe now. Which is why we have one of the highest covid case rates in the EU currently, despite also having the highest vaccination rate.

The Irish media will never admit it, but Boris Johnson and his tactic of opening up England in July, to have a summer surge then and increase natural immunity at a time when there was no strain on the hospitals, has been proven completely correct. NPHET, our media and our politicians called him an idiot, or a monster, for it, but the UK's corona case numbers have now been steadily declining every day for 3 weeks. Which is ideally timed, just as their hospitals start to come under the normal winter stress.

Whereas here in Ireland we stayed locked down all summer unnecessarily, when the hospitals weren't under any stress, and are now facing into our peak surge in December...right at Christmas time, when hospitals struggle even in normal years..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on November 10, 2021, 08:23:31 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 09, 2021, 11:44:20 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 09, 2021, 09:41:07 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 07:09:05 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 09, 2021, 06:57:36 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 05:22:56 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 09, 2021, 04:26:46 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 09, 2021, 10:19:20 AM
One thing we're seeing in this pandemic is evolution in real time, ie survival of the fittest. At the moment there is an extremely low risk of vaccinated people getting ill or dying. Almost all Covid deaths are now among the unvaccinated. Many of those are anti vax idiots whose deaths could've easily been prevented. There are still ordinary, decent people dying unfortunately but the vast majority are science deniers and idiots.

Do you know that for a fact, or are you just believing what the  mainstream media  are feeding you?  There are many reasons people choose not to get vaccinated.

The vast majority of people have got vaccinated because they believe the scientists ie the experts in this field and they know they will get excellent protection against serious illness. People who aren't getting vaccinated obviously don't trust the scientists for whatever reason but often it's because they've seen youtube or facebook conspiracy theories. Those people who haven't been vaccinated are therefore unprotected and are way more likely to become ill and a proportion of those will then die. A peer reviewed study the other day showed you are 32 times more likely to die if you haven't been vaccinated. That's a study of real life data checked and verified by other scientists.I prefer to trust peer reviewed scientific studies rather than anecdotes on youtube which are often deliberate misinformation.
Good stuff, any chance of a link to that study?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/anti-vaxxers-covid-deaths-ons-b1949037.html

It's reported here in the Independent from ONS data. I've seen it also in Science journals.

Cheers, would rather have a look at the study and how they reached their conclusions. No longer inclined to follow media stories as gospel any more.
Knock yourself out.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19byvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween2januaryand24september2021 (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19byvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween2januaryand24september2021)
Good stuff, best to stay close to the science rather than a potential news media slant.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 10, 2021, 08:28:09 AM
This is a genuine question... do you understand the science?

The thing with not trusting the science is that many people who don't trust the science don't remotely understand it. I am not saying you don't and this is not your line I know but there are people who "don't trust the science" and wouldn't have the first baldy notion about it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2021, 08:47:55 AM
I missed the interview on 5 live this morning but it was a woman who lost her job as a care assistant because she wouldn't get vaccinated, this rule is in England of course, I can see both sides to this, she is going to wait till the study is done in 2023 before making a decision on the science
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 10, 2021, 09:22:01 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 10, 2021, 08:47:55 AM
I missed the interview on 5 live this morning but it was a woman who lost her job as a care assistant because she wouldn't get vaccinated, this rule is in England of course, I can see both sides to this, she is going to wait till the study is done in 2023 before making a decision on the science

Come 2023 we'll prob be using one of the 90 odd vaccines / pills being worked on atm, and then it'll be 2025/26. Round and round we go. As with Tommy's point above, you either agree with science and the experts or you don't imo. The vast vast majority of anti-vax people have trusted science up to this point whether that be vaccines or medicines, and their heads have been turned with social media, by a tiny minority of alternative experts (grifters).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on November 10, 2021, 10:46:38 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 09, 2021, 11:55:08 PM
All the research is now very clear that natural immunity provides as much protection from infection/hospitilization as the vaccinated.
Wrong.

https://twitter.com/profshanecrotty/status/1455263624730087424

People with previous COVID-19 (natural immunity) were 5x more likely to be hospitalized with re-infection COVID, compared to vaxxed people. Dramatic finding. Most extensive data on this topic in an American population, & over a substantial period of time.
https://cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7044e1.htm?s_cid=mm7044e1_w
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2021, 12:03:54 PM
Quote from: highorlow on November 09, 2021, 11:55:08 PM
All the research is now very clear that natural immunity provides as much protection from infection/hospitilization as the vaccinated. The very widely reported on study from Israel showed its 27 times more protection against Delta than being double vaccinated.

Ireland however had literally the longest, strictest, lockdowns in Europe. As a result we have one of the lowest natural immunity levels in Europe now. Which is why we have one of the highest covid case rates in the EU currently, despite also having the highest vaccination rate.

The Irish media will never admit it, but Boris Johnson and his tactic of opening up England in July, to have a summer surge then and increase natural immunity at a time when there was no strain on the hospitals, has been proven completely correct. NPHET, our media and our politicians called him an idiot, or a monster, for it, but the UK's corona case numbers have now been steadily declining every day for 3 weeks. Which is ideally timed, just as their hospitals start to come under the normal winter stress.

Whereas here in Ireland we stayed locked down all summer unnecessarily, when the hospitals weren't under any stress, and are now facing into our peak surge in December...right at Christmas time, when hospitals struggle even in normal years..
Throw up.a few research papers
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 10, 2021, 12:11:09 PM
Quote from: highorlow on November 09, 2021, 11:55:08 PM
All the research is now very clear that natural immunity provides as much protection from infection/hospitilization as the vaccinated. The very widely reported on study from Israel showed its 27 times more protection against Delta than being double vaccinated.

Ireland however had literally the longest, strictest, lockdowns in Europe. As a result we have one of the lowest natural immunity levels in Europe now. Which is why we have one of the highest covid case rates in the EU currently, despite also having the highest vaccination rate.

The Irish media will never admit it, but Boris Johnson and his tactic of opening up England in July, to have a summer surge then and increase natural immunity at a time when there was no strain on the hospitals, has been proven completely correct. NPHET, our media and our politicians called him an idiot, or a monster, for it, but the UK's corona case numbers have now been steadily declining every day for 3 weeks. Which is ideally timed, just as their hospitals start to come under the normal winter stress.

Whereas here in Ireland we stayed locked down all summer unnecessarily, when the hospitals weren't under any stress, and are now facing into our peak surge in December...right at Christmas time, when hospitals struggle even in normal years..

*Citation needed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: DuffleKing on November 10, 2021, 12:51:56 PM

Yea this nonsense about the vaccine minimizing the chance of people contracting covid is the biggest nonsense about at the moment and it goes right to the heart of vaccine passports, etc.

FFs Tony Holohan has publicly expressed his disappointment at the lack of evidence of this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 10, 2021, 03:07:17 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on November 10, 2021, 12:51:56 PM

Yea this nonsense about the vaccine minimizing the chance of people contracting covid is the biggest nonsense about at the moment and it goes right to the heart of vaccine passports, etc.

FFs Tony Holohan has publicly expressed his disappointment at the lack of evidence of this.

But there is evidence of this in every study.The difference is not as great as people would like, but it is there.
And even if there is not a huge difference, a person with a vaccine is much less likely to impose a large cost on the health service, so they need less restriction.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on November 10, 2021, 05:50:07 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 10, 2021, 08:28:09 AM
This is a genuine question... do you understand the science?

The thing with not trusting the science is that many people who don't trust the science don't remotely understand it. I am not saying you don't and this is not your line I know but there are people who "don't trust the science" and wouldn't have the first baldy notion about it.
You talking to me?? If you are,  its really just maths so unless you are numerically dumb it isn't entirely unfathomable. We should all take an interest in this sort of stuff.  My point which may be lost on some is that lets stay close to the science and not media headlines and click bait. Let the scientists butt their heads to work this out rather than media commentators.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on November 10, 2021, 06:04:28 PM
Lord Tony announcing today to cut contacts in 2 over the coming weeks.

He has some neck. The citizens have done as much as we can at this stage, no one is listening this nonsense anymore.

His credibility is gone, now maybe giving free antigen tests to everyone going to both Irish matches this week would be a better suggestion but he fucked up that idea a good while back and, like many overpaid civil servants, won't admit he got it wrong.

See Denmark.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 10, 2021, 06:18:14 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 10, 2021, 05:50:07 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 10, 2021, 08:28:09 AM
This is a genuine question... do you understand the science?

The thing with not trusting the science is that many people who don't trust the science don't remotely understand it. I am not saying you don't and this is not your line I know but there are people who "don't trust the science" and wouldn't have the first baldy notion about it.
You talking to me?? If you are,  its really just maths so unless you are numerically dumb it isn't entirely unfathomable. We should all take an interest in this sort of stuff.  My point which may be lost on some is that lets stay close to the science and not media headlines and click bait. Let the scientists butt their heads to work this out rather than media commentators.

i'm not criticising you I'm interested. There's a bit more to it than purely numbers unless you know what numbers you are looking for.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 10, 2021, 06:23:04 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on November 10, 2021, 12:51:56 PM

Yea this nonsense about the vaccine minimizing the chance of people contracting covid is the biggest nonsense about at the moment and it goes right to the heart of vaccine passports, etc.

FFs Tony Holohan has publicly expressed his disappointment at the lack of evidence of this.
This sort of nonsense is killing people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 10, 2021, 06:35:25 PM
Yep let's all listen to a few half baked GAAboarders and ignore all them oul scientists and doctors.
Sure what would they know about science or health matters.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on November 10, 2021, 10:27:33 PM
Good news guys, the doctors and scientists are starting to get to the bottom of it.
https://youtu.be/ufy2AweXRkc
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on November 11, 2021, 12:25:15 AM
Quote from: Hound on November 09, 2021, 04:04:29 PM
Wow, is somebody really saying the Swedish way was better than the Irish way?
Just ignore the death rate!

There are not many Swedes who believe at this stage that their strategy was best. A death rate of 500%-600% more than their neighbours in Norway and Finland.
In the beginning the Swedes seriously fcked up due to lackadaisical response re isolating homes for the elders and with the  response from a de-centralised health system not coordinating. But on the 3rd wave  since July, Sweden has come out on top out of all of the Nordic countries, much fewer infections, hospitalisations and deaths. Perhaps you have paid too much attention to that hysterical Irishman reporting on Dunphy's podcast, all spoof and bluster when the contradicting facts were there for all to see.
However it's way too early to have an overview of what constitutes best procedure among the Nordic countries as things could change for Sweden  but as it stands now it looks like there is a national coping.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on November 11, 2021, 01:33:52 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2021, 06:35:25 PM
Yep let's all listen to a few half baked GAAboarders and ignore all them oul scientists and doctors.
Sure what would they know about science or health matters.

exactly this, the half-wits on here are unbelievable but they reflect their community unfortunately

the main reason to avoid covid and get the vaccine is the health service cannot cope with large scale sickness

the selfishness of people is unreal, covid is not about you or your freedoms

social distance, wear your mask, get vaxxed etc

it'll all be over soon  ;)


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: DrinkingHarp on November 11, 2021, 06:44:20 AM
Double vaccinated 6 months ago (Pfizer)

Had a pre work covid test on the 27th of Oct - negative

Felt like a head cold/sinus infection (no temp) Saturday and stayed like that till Tuesday, called off of work M/T had to take a covid test to go back to work today (they are really strict) - positive.

This evening noticed loss of smell, opened a spice jar of both Garlic and Cinnamon and nothing.

Wore my mask everywhere, never went out to socialize the past 2 months because I was swamped with work.

10 days off of work till next test on the 22.

So far all minor symptoms, doctor said the vaccine is more than likely keeping me this way.

Be Careful
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 11, 2021, 08:23:18 AM
Hope you've a full and speedy recovery DH. Immediate family member had it and the sense of smell / taste took a while to return, but did
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on November 11, 2021, 08:50:04 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on November 11, 2021, 01:33:52 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2021, 06:35:25 PM
Yep let's all listen to a few half baked GAAboarders and ignore all them oul scientists and doctors.
Sure what would they know about science or health matters.

exactly this, the half-wits on here are unbelievable but they reflect their community unfortunately

the main reason to avoid covid and get the vaccine is the health service cannot cope with large scale sickness

the selfishness of people is unreal, covid is not about you or your freedoms

social distance, wear your mask, get vaxxed etc

it'll all be over soon  ;)

It won't be over soon even if 100% of people get vaccinated, which is impossible to attain. Selfishness for not taking the vaccine my hole. The reason for the current high number of Covid cases is a proportion of young double vaccinated young ones going buck mad & not adhering to earlier Covid safety guidelines & spreading to family members thereafter. Plenty of people are dying of Covid who get the vaccine. No doubt the vaccine is better than the alternative, however the vaccines efficacy is not great in respect to the delta variant.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: DuffleKing on November 11, 2021, 08:54:25 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2021, 06:23:04 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on November 10, 2021, 12:51:56 PM

Yea this nonsense about the vaccine minimizing the chance of people contracting covid is the biggest nonsense about at the moment and it goes right to the heart of vaccine passports, etc.

FFs Tony Holohan has publicly expressed his disappointment at the lack of evidence of this.
This sort of nonsense is killing people.

https://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/vaccinations-not-performing-as-well-as-hoped-in-reducing-spread-of-covid-cmo-40990416.html

He was asked to quantify what the small impact on transmissability might be but he replied that he wouldn't like to speculate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2021, 09:35:58 AM
Quote from: Rudi on November 11, 2021, 08:50:04 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on November 11, 2021, 01:33:52 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2021, 06:35:25 PM
Yep let's all listen to a few half baked GAAboarders and ignore all them oul scientists and doctors.
Sure what would they know about science or health matters.

exactly this, the half-wits on here are unbelievable but they reflect their community unfortunately

the main reason to avoid covid and get the vaccine is the health service cannot cope with large scale sickness

the selfishness of people is unreal, covid is not about you or your freedoms

social distance, wear your mask, get vaxxed etc

it'll all be over soon  ;)

It won't be over soon even if 100% of people get vaccinated, which is impossible to attain. Selfishness for not taking the vaccine my hole. The reason for the current high number of Covid cases is a proportion of young double vaccinated young ones going buck mad & not adhering to earlier Covid safety guidelines & spreading to family members thereafter. Plenty of people are dying of Covid who get the vaccine. No doubt the vaccine is better than the alternative, however the vaccines efficacy is not great in respect to the delta variant.
There was unjustified euphoria back in Spring when the first vaccines emerged.
Israel was the first country where the authorities noticed that the vaccine effect was waning over time . Delta in particular is a hoor.
Ultra caution is still required.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 11, 2021, 01:26:12 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2021, 06:35:25 PM
Yep let's all listen to a few half baked GAAboarders and ignore all them oul scientists and doctors.
Sure what would they know about science or health matters.

But people ARE ignoring those same scientists and doctors, and the health advice. Because many many people are not wearing masks, keeping distance, washing hands etc etc.

So no point listening to them about getting the  vaccines , if you're just going to then ignore everything else that's advised
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 11, 2021, 01:33:31 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on November 11, 2021, 01:33:52 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2021, 06:35:25 PM
Yep let's all listen to a few half baked GAAboarders and ignore all them oul scientists and doctors.
Sure what would they know about science or health matters.

exactly this, the half-wits on here are unbelievable but they reflect their community unfortunately

the main reason to avoid covid and get the vaccine is the health service cannot cope with large scale sickness

the selfishness of people is unreal, covid is not about you or your freedoms

social distance, wear your mask, get vaxxed etc

it'll all be over soon  ;)

To be honest, a huge number don't give two f**ks about the health service.  People think once they're jabbed, they are safe/free to do anything they want... when they go about with no masks, no distancing etc, are they thinking of the health service and the pressures it's under? Are they f**k. when it comes to the health service, all people  care about is if they take bad ((with covid or other),  there will be a bed free for them.

By the way, this will never be over.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 11, 2021, 01:34:57 PM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on November 11, 2021, 06:44:20 AM
Double vaccinated 6 months ago (Pfizer)

Had a pre work covid test on the 27th of Oct - negative

Felt like a head cold/sinus infection (no temp) Saturday and stayed like that till Tuesday, called off of work M/T had to take a covid test to go back to work today (they are really strict) - positive.

This evening noticed loss of smell, opened a spice jar of both Garlic and Cinnamon and nothing.

Wore my mask everywhere, never went out to socialize the past 2 months because I was swamped with work.

10 days off of work till next test on the 22.

So far all minor symptoms, doctor said the vaccine is more than likely keeping me this way.

Be Careful

Hope you recover well

Any idea how you picked it up?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 11, 2021, 01:36:37 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 11, 2021, 08:50:04 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on November 11, 2021, 01:33:52 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2021, 06:35:25 PM
Yep let's all listen to a few half baked GAAboarders and ignore all them oul scientists and doctors.
Sure what would they know about science or health matters.

exactly this, the half-wits on here are unbelievable but they reflect their community unfortunately

the main reason to avoid covid and get the vaccine is the health service cannot cope with large scale sickness

the selfishness of people is unreal, covid is not about you or your freedoms

social distance, wear your mask, get vaxxed etc

it'll all be over soon  ;)

It won't be over soon even if 100% of people get vaccinated, which is impossible to attain. Selfishness for not taking the vaccine my hole. The reason for the current high number of Covid cases is a proportion of young double vaccinated young ones going buck mad & not adhering to earlier Covid safety guidelines & spreading to family members thereafter. Plenty of people are dying of Covid who get the vaccine. No doubt the vaccine is better than the alternative, however the vaccines efficacy is not great in respect to the delta variant.

Yet, are they still dishing out the same vaccines as before?  Or are they constantly doctoring them to cope with the ever changing strains?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 11, 2021, 01:39:43 PM
Yes because it is that easy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cavan19 on November 11, 2021, 01:58:35 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 11, 2021, 08:50:04 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on November 11, 2021, 01:33:52 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2021, 06:35:25 PM
Yep let's all listen to a few half baked GAAboarders and ignore all them oul scientists and doctors.
Sure what would they know about science or health matters.

exactly this, the half-wits on here are unbelievable but they reflect their community unfortunately

the main reason to avoid covid and get the vaccine is the health service cannot cope with large scale sickness

the selfishness of people is unreal, covid is not about you or your freedoms

social distance, wear your mask, get vaxxed etc

it'll all be over soon  ;)

It won't be over soon even if 100% of people get vaccinated, which is impossible to attain. Selfishness for not taking the vaccine my hole. The reason for the current high number of Covid cases is a proportion of young double vaccinated young ones going buck mad & not adhering to earlier Covid safety guidelines & spreading to family members thereafter. Plenty of people are dying of Covid who get the vaccine. No doubt the vaccine is better than the alternative, however the vaccines efficacy is not great in respect to the delta variant.

It is still doing a great job though if you look back to the amount of cases early this year to now, if you had no vaccine and everything open like it is now it would be over 10k cases a day at this stage.  It isn't as good  with the Delta though this would be over by now only for it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2021, 02:11:11 PM
A good friend of mine caught it, has a few underlying conditions, severe asthmatic. High blood pressure, wouldn't be the fittest and over 60. Took herself off to the bedroom these last 2 weeks, initially flu feelings the taste and smell gone, now she is over the worst of it, but has now developed a sore back which apparently is a condition with covid (I'd no idea) she was fully vaccinated same time as me, early on. Doctor told her it could have been a lot worse had she not been vaccinated.

Her son, who lives in the house caught it also, has been to hospital, suffering bad at the minute, in her words, was touch and go, not vaccinated!!

Whether he eats well or is fit or whatever, surely having the vaccine would be better than what this fella is going through?

Fully vaccinated now 6 months, have had no adverse problems since taking the vaccine
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 11, 2021, 02:38:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2021, 02:11:11 PM
A good friend of mine caught it, has a few underlying conditions, severe asthmatic. High blood pressure, wouldn't be the fittest and over 60. Took herself off to the bedroom these last 2 weeks, initially flu feelings the taste and smell gone, now she is over the worst of it, but has now developed a sore back which apparently is a condition with covid (I'd no idea) she was fully vaccinated same time as me, early on. Doctor told her it could have been a lot worse had she not been vaccinated.

Her son, who lives in the house caught it also, has been to hospital, suffering bad at the minute, in her words, was touch and go, not vaccinated!!

Whether he eats well or is fit or whatever, surely having the vaccine would be better than what this fella is going through?

Fully vaccinated now 6 months, have had no adverse problems since taking the vaccine

Between the shoulder blades? Know a couple of men, 50s suffering from this for over 12 months now. Nerve damage apparently
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 11, 2021, 02:49:38 PM
Jesus. You'll not get rid of that in a hurry I imagine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 11, 2021, 07:09:40 PM
More than 4 times as many people died in the last 24 hours from Covid in the UK than have died during the whole pandemic in New Zealand. New Zealand have also now caught up completely with the UK in terms of percentage of population vaccinated. New Zealand society was almost completely open for the vast majority of the pandemic apart from flights in and out. Sporting events went ahead with capacity crowds and restaurants and bars were open. If we want to look at a country which has handled the pandemic well you have to look no further than NZ. Once they get a few more vaccinated they should be able to open up completely without worrying about the impact on their health services.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on November 11, 2021, 07:21:07 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 11, 2021, 07:09:40 PM
More than 4 times as many people died in the last 24 hours from Covid in the UK than have died during the whole pandemic in New Zealand. New Zealand have also now caught up completely with the UK in terms of percentage of population vaccinated. New Zealand society was almost completely open for the vast majority of the pandemic apart from flights in and out. Sporting events went ahead with capacity crowds and restaurants and bars were open. If we want to look at a country which has handled the pandemic well you have to look no further than NZ. Once they get a few more vaccinated they should be able to open up completely without worrying about the impact on their health services.

Where do you start with the differences between NZ & the UK ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 11, 2021, 07:42:46 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 11, 2021, 07:21:07 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 11, 2021, 07:09:40 PM
More than 4 times as many people died in the last 24 hours from Covid in the UK than have died during the whole pandemic in New Zealand. New Zealand have also now caught up completely with the UK in terms of percentage of population vaccinated. New Zealand society was almost completely open for the vast majority of the pandemic apart from flights in and out. Sporting events went ahead with capacity crowds and restaurants and bars were open. If we want to look at a country which has handled the pandemic well you have to look no further than NZ. Once they get a few more vaccinated they should be able to open up completely without worrying about the impact on their health services.

Where do you start with the differences between NZ & the UK ?

I know the UK is way more densely populated. It's not more densely populated than South Korea though and their numbers are extremely low even though they've largely kept their economy open. The UK have had a disastrous response and worse than that they've allowed the virus to run its course deliberately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 11, 2021, 08:45:59 PM
Quote from: clarshack on November 11, 2021, 08:06:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2021, 02:11:11 PM
Her son, who lives in the house caught it also, has been to hospital, suffering bad at the minute, in her words, was touch and go, not vaccinated!!

Whether he eats well or is fit or whatever, surely having the vaccine would be better than what this fella is going through?

Fully vaccinated now 6 months, have had no adverse problems since taking the vaccine

Guy beside me in the respiratory ward was a PT and at 6'2 was built like a tank but it didn't matter as covid hit him hard too. One of the Nurses was telling me that from what she's seen it can hit unvaccinated fit people pretty hard.

Still on the mend Clarshack?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2021, 09:02:43 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1111/1259208-ireland/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 11, 2021, 09:23:00 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on November 11, 2021, 02:38:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2021, 02:11:11 PM
A good friend of mine caught it, has a few underlying conditions, severe asthmatic. High blood pressure, wouldn't be the fittest and over 60. Took herself off to the bedroom these last 2 weeks, initially flu feelings the taste and smell gone, now she is over the worst of it, but has now developed a sore back which apparently is a condition with covid (I'd no idea) she was fully vaccinated same time as me, early on. Doctor told her it could have been a lot worse had she not been vaccinated.

Her son, who lives in the house caught it also, has been to hospital, suffering bad at the minute, in her words, was touch and go, not vaccinated!!

Whether he eats well or is fit or whatever, surely having the vaccine would be better than what this fella is going through?

Fully vaccinated now 6 months, have had no adverse problems since taking the vaccine

Between the shoulder blades? Know a couple of men, 50s suffering from this for over 12 months now. Nerve damage apparently
Fella in work was one of the first cases I heard about first hand and he told me the first symptom was a pain behind the shoulder blades when out running. His wife told him to look about it as she though he could have been having a mild heart attack. Came back as positive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 11, 2021, 09:26:11 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1111/1259191-coronavirus-global/Under an incremental Austrian government plan agreed in September, once 30% of intensive-care beds are occupied by Covid-19 patients, people not vaccinated against the coronavirus will be placed under lockdown, with restrictions on their daily movements.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 11, 2021, 09:27:00 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 11, 2021, 01:33:31 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on November 11, 2021, 01:33:52 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2021, 06:35:25 PM
Yep let's all listen to a few half baked GAAboarders and ignore all them oul scientists and doctors.
Sure what would they know about science or health matters.

exactly this, the half-wits on here are unbelievable but they reflect their community unfortunately

the main reason to avoid covid and get the vaccine is the health service cannot cope with large scale sickness

the selfishness of people is unreal, covid is not about you or your freedoms

social distance, wear your mask, get vaxxed etc

it'll all be over soon  ;)

To be honest, a huge number don't give two f**ks about the health service.  People think once they're jabbed, they are safe/free to do anything they want... when they go about with no masks, no distancing etc, are they thinking of the health service and the pressures it's under? Are they f**k. when it comes to the health service, all people  care about is if they take bad ((with covid or other),  there will be a bed free for them.

By the way, this will never be over.
More drivel. It's the unvaccinated that are running wild as the didnt give a shite in the first place. In my experience that vaccinated have cared enough about it in the first place to continue taking precautions. I am double vaxxed but still wear a mask and mind myself when out and about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 11, 2021, 09:54:33 PM
Quote from: clarshack on November 11, 2021, 09:43:26 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on November 11, 2021, 08:45:59 PM
Quote from: clarshack on November 11, 2021, 08:06:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 11, 2021, 02:11:11 PM
Her son, who lives in the house caught it also, has been to hospital, suffering bad at the minute, in her words, was touch and go, not vaccinated!!

Whether he eats well or is fit or whatever, surely having the vaccine would be better than what this fella is going through?

Fully vaccinated now 6 months, have had no adverse problems since taking the vaccine

Guy beside me in the respiratory ward was a PT and at 6'2 was built like a tank but it didn't matter as covid hit him hard too. One of the Nurses was telling me that from what she's seen it can hit unvaccinated fit people pretty hard.

Still on the mend Clarshack?

Yes thanks JOG2, slight improvement each day but still have a tight chest at times and I have to take it easy up the stairs or else my heart rate will sky rocket but in general I'm doing better than what I was since leaving hospital.

Good man, keep the spirits high, slow going at times I'd say, but you'll get there. The improvements a close friend of mine has made in the last wee while is just incredible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 11, 2021, 10:21:10 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 11, 2021, 09:27:00 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 11, 2021, 01:33:31 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on November 11, 2021, 01:33:52 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 10, 2021, 06:35:25 PM
Yep let's all listen to a few half baked GAAboarders and ignore all them oul scientists and doctors.
Sure what would they know about science or health matters.

exactly this, the half-wits on here are unbelievable but they reflect their community unfortunately

the main reason to avoid covid and get the vaccine is the health service cannot cope with large scale sickness

the selfishness of people is unreal, covid is not about you or your freedoms

social distance, wear your mask, get vaxxed etc

it'll all be over soon  ;)

To be honest, a huge number don't give two f**ks about the health service.  People think once they're jabbed, they are safe/free to do anything they want... when they go about with no masks, no distancing etc, are they thinking of the health service and the pressures it's under? Are they f**k. when it comes to the health service, all people  care about is if they take bad ((with covid or other),  there will be a bed free for them.

By the way, this will never be over.
More drivel. It's the unvaccinated that are running wild as the didnt give a shite in the first place. In my experience that vaccinated have cared enough about it in the first place to continue taking precautions. I am double vaxxed but still wear a mask and mind myself when out and about.

There are maybe 9 in 10 adults  vaccinated. So, the big number of people running around without masks/"running wild" etc,  a huge number of those would be  those that are  vaccinated.

No point in caring enough to get vaccinated, then ignore all  guidance afterwards.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 11, 2021, 10:41:12 PM
"Huge numbers without masks" lol

But only in Armagh seemingly as in most other places the majority still wearing them!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 11, 2021, 10:51:49 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 11, 2021, 10:41:12 PM
"Huge numbers without masks" lol

But only in Armagh seemingly as in most other places the majority still wearing them!
Was in Newry shopping the other night and would say it's about 60% at least not wearing masks. People don't care any more rightly or wrongly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 11, 2021, 10:52:04 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 11, 2021, 10:41:12 PM
"Huge numbers without masks" lol

But only in Armagh seemingly as in most other places the majority still wearing them!

I didn't say "huge"

And I'm not just talking about mask wearing in shops. There's also  workplaces, people entering other houses, public transport..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 11, 2021, 10:56:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 11, 2021, 10:51:49 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 11, 2021, 10:41:12 PM
"Huge numbers without masks" lol

But only in Armagh seemingly as in most other places the majority still wearing them!
Was in Newry shopping the other night and would say it's about 60% at least not wearing masks. People don't care any more rightly or wrongly.
Wrongly. Newry isn't a proper reflection of civilised society.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 11, 2021, 11:02:08 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 11, 2021, 10:52:04 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 11, 2021, 10:41:12 PM
"Huge numbers without masks" lol

But only in Armagh seemingly as in most other places the majority still wearing them!

I didn't say "huge"

And I'm not just talking about mask wearing in shops. There's also  workplaces, people entering other houses, public transport..

Your right you didn't say huge numbers, you said big numbers. My apologies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 12, 2021, 07:23:38 AM
I think people have unrealistic expectations of vaccination.
Delta is highly transmissible. Vaccination protects against serious illness but the vaccinated can still be vectors.

Both parts of the island have relatively low ICU capacity.
This is #seniorhurling


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 08:10:52 AM
Sf basically some people will say anything against it no matter what. Is it disappointing we are still when we are? Yes. However it is still a huge improvement.

Lines come out like "it'll never be over". Ridiculous.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on November 12, 2021, 09:00:28 AM
Monaghan county has the lowest per capita take up of the vaccine & has the lowest 14 day incidence of Covid cases while Waterford has the highest rate of vaccine take up & the second highest rate of Covid cases in the country at the moment.

The vaccine up take concerns adults only. The vaccinated are going buck leepin mad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on November 12, 2021, 09:18:15 AM
Quote from: Rudi on November 12, 2021, 09:00:28 AM
Monaghan county has the lowest per capita take up of the vaccine & has the lowest 14 day incidence of Covid cases while Waterford has the highest rate of vaccine take up & the second highest rate of Covid cases in the country at the moment.

The vaccine up take concerns adults only. The vaccinated are going buck leepin mad.

Lot in Monaghan would have got it cross border. Louth similar.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on November 12, 2021, 09:26:13 AM
Quote from: Louther on November 12, 2021, 09:18:15 AM
Quote from: Rudi on November 12, 2021, 09:00:28 AM
Monaghan county has the lowest per capita take up of the vaccine & has the lowest 14 day incidence of Covid cases while Waterford has the highest rate of vaccine take up & the second highest rate of Covid cases in the country at the moment.

The vaccine up take concerns adults only. The vaccinated are going buck leepin mad.

Lot in Monaghan would have got it cross border. Louth similar.

Thats a bit mad, I know of a good few people in Donegal who tried to get the vaccine in NI, but were declined (rightly so) on the basis of being from the ROI.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on November 12, 2021, 09:33:33 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1112/1259421-coronavirus-netherlands/


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on November 12, 2021, 09:38:51 AM
https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2021/11/11/dont-go-to-things-if-you-want-things-to-stay-open-confirms-nphet/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 12, 2021, 09:41:29 AM
Quote from: Louther on November 12, 2021, 09:18:15 AM
Quote from: Rudi on November 12, 2021, 09:00:28 AM
Monaghan county has the lowest per capita take up of the vaccine & has the lowest 14 day incidence of Covid cases while Waterford has the highest rate of vaccine take up & the second highest rate of Covid cases in the country at the moment.

The vaccine up take concerns adults only. The vaccinated are going buck leepin mad.

Lot in Monaghan would have got it cross border. Louth similar.
Yeah blame the Nordies!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 10:49:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 08:10:52 AM
Sf basically some people will say anything against it no matter what. Is it disappointing we are still when we are? Yes. However it is still a huge improvement.

Lines come out like "it'll never be over". Ridiculous.

Well, since 90+% have been vaccinated,  rates still sky high, and they're drip feeding you info that there'll be a 3rd, 4th, 5th, 50th jab... it doesn't sound like this will go away to me. And it won't be. It could, but it won't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 10:51:23 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 10:49:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 08:10:52 AM
Sf basically some people will say anything against it no matter what. Is it disappointing we are still when we are? Yes. However it is still a huge improvement.

Lines come out like "it'll never be over". Ridiculous.

Well, since 90+% have been vaccinated,  rates still sky high, and they're drip feeding you info that there'll be a 3rd, 4th, 5th, 50th jab... it doesn't sound like this will go away to me. And it won't be. It could, but it won't.

In what way could this be over now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2021, 10:57:09 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 10:49:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 08:10:52 AM
Sf basically some people will say anything against it no matter what. Is it disappointing we are still when we are? Yes. However it is still a huge improvement.

Lines come out like "it'll never be over". Ridiculous.

Well, since 90+% have been vaccinated,  rates still sky high, and they're drip feeding you info that there'll be a 3rd, 4th, 5th, 50th jab... it doesn't sound like this will go away to me. And it won't be. It could, but it won't.

Has the flu went away or the common cold? When these things hit at the start they were and still are contributing factors in causing death to people.

The 'vaccine' will become your 'flu jab'. Once there are medications to fight it better it will allow us to live a normal life, I'd assume must people that are against the vaccine, they'll be fine after the clinical trial period (2023), then there will be no outcry about vaccine's
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 11:02:30 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 10:49:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 08:10:52 AM
Sf basically some people will say anything against it no matter what. Is it disappointing we are still when we are? Yes. However it is still a huge improvement.

Lines come out like "it'll never be over". Ridiculous.

Well, since 90+% have been vaccinated,  rates still sky high, and they're drip feeding you info that there'll be a 3rd, 4th, 5th, 50th jab... it doesn't sound like this will go away to me. And it won't be. It could, but it won't.

Absolute nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 12, 2021, 11:02:53 AM
rumours irish pubs to be closed at 7pm
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2021, 11:04:38 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 12, 2021, 11:02:53 AM
rumours irish pubs to be closed at 7pm

Can the French and Italian themed restaurants stay open later?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 12, 2021, 11:05:00 AM
were these  pub owners not warned the government would throw them under the bus again but they brushed it off as scaremongering and the ole ahhh they wouldn't do that attitude you get off them. they will probably be throwing a few crumbs and they be  like the governement are great they giving us a few crumbs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 12, 2021, 11:12:26 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 12, 2021, 11:02:53 AM
rumours irish pubs to be closed at 7pm
So the virus has gone from coming out at 11 to coming out at 7. Sneaky f**ker.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 12, 2021, 11:24:34 AM
Quote from: Rudi on November 12, 2021, 09:26:13 AM
Quote from: Louther on November 12, 2021, 09:18:15 AM
Quote from: Rudi on November 12, 2021, 09:00:28 AM
Monaghan county has the lowest per capita take up of the vaccine & has the lowest 14 day incidence of Covid cases while Waterford has the highest rate of vaccine take up & the second highest rate of Covid cases in the country at the moment.

The vaccine up take concerns adults only. The vaccinated are going buck leepin mad.

Lot in Monaghan would have got it cross border. Louth similar.

Thats a bit mad, I know of a good few people in Donegal who tried to get the vaccine in NI, but were declined (rightly so) on the basis of being from the ROI.

Not unless someone is registered with a GP in the North or obviously working for the HSC
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on November 12, 2021, 11:25:29 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 12, 2021, 11:12:26 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 12, 2021, 11:02:53 AM
rumours irish pubs to be closed at 7pm
So the virus has gone from coming out at 11 to coming out at 7. Sneaky f**ker.

Great and insightful take..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 12, 2021, 11:47:53 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 12, 2021, 11:25:29 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 12, 2021, 11:12:26 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 12, 2021, 11:02:53 AM
rumours irish pubs to be closed at 7pm
So the virus has gone from coming out at 11 to coming out at 7. Sneaky f**ker.

Great and insightful take..
Well it's about as great and as insightful as deciding to close at 7. Ffs. Probably only rumours though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 11:59:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 11:02:30 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 10:49:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 08:10:52 AM
Sf basically some people will say anything against it no matter what. Is it disappointing we are still when we are? Yes. However it is still a huge improvement.

Lines come out like "it'll never be over". Ridiculous.

Well, since 90+% have been vaccinated,  rates still sky high, and they're drip feeding you info that there'll be a 3rd, 4th, 5th, 50th jab... it doesn't sound like this will go away to me. And it won't be. It could, but it won't.

Absolute nonsense.

Well as stated earlier, Israel are preparing for a 4th dose. Doesn't sound like it's going away does it? Maybe you just don't want to tell yourself that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 11:59:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 11:02:30 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 10:49:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 08:10:52 AM
Sf basically some people will say anything against it no matter what. Is it disappointing we are still when we are? Yes. However it is still a huge improvement.

Lines come out like "it'll never be over". Ridiculous.

Well, since 90+% have been vaccinated,  rates still sky high, and they're drip feeding you info that there'll be a 3rd, 4th, 5th, 50th jab... it doesn't sound like this will go away to me. And it won't be. It could, but it won't.

Absolute nonsense.

Well as stated earlier, Israel are preparing for a 4th dose. Doesn't sound like it's going away does it? Maybe you just don't want to tell yourself that.

You didn't answer earlier, how could it be over? What could have been done to ensure it could be over?

There's ever chance it's not going away. But there's no point whinging about that. You have to play the hand your dealt and try and do what we can.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 12, 2021, 12:26:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 11:59:14 AM
Well as stated earlier, Israel are preparing for a 4th dose. Doesn't sound like it's going away does it? Maybe you just don't want to tell yourself that.

If Isreal is preparing for a 4th dose it is because the 3rd dose improved things. They have 450 cases a day with 5 times the population of NI which has 1450 cases a day. That despite quite a few religious loonies who don't get vaccinated. At the end of August, they had 10,000 a day.

Meanwhile, the Netherlands is closing the pubs for 3 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on November 12, 2021, 01:16:36 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 12, 2021, 12:26:46 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 11:59:14 AM
Well as stated earlier, Israel are preparing for a 4th dose. Doesn't sound like it's going away does it? Maybe you just don't want to tell yourself that.

If Isreal is preparing for a 4th dose it is because the 3rd dose improved things. They have 450 cases a day with 5 times the population of NI which has 1450 cases a day. That despite quite a few religious loonies who don't get vaccinated. At the end of August, they had 10,000 a day.

Meanwhile, the Netherlands is closing the pubs for 3 weeks.

I think we can give Israel a run for it's money in that regard..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 03,05,08 on November 12, 2021, 01:27:21 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 11:59:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 11:02:30 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 10:49:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 08:10:52 AM
Sf basically some people will say anything against it no matter what. Is it disappointing we are still when we are? Yes. However it is still a huge improvement.

Lines come out like "it'll never be over". Ridiculous.

Well, since 90+% have been vaccinated,  rates still sky high, and they're drip feeding you info that there'll be a 3rd, 4th, 5th, 50th jab... it doesn't sound like this will go away to me. And it won't be. It could, but it won't.

Absolute nonsense.

Well as stated earlier, Israel are preparing for a 4th dose. Doesn't sound like it's going away does it? Maybe you just don't want to tell yourself that.

So If the Vaccine does not completely eradicate Covid then its useless?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Aaron Boone on November 12, 2021, 01:44:06 PM
4th dose wow. No finishing point in sight folks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2021, 01:46:35 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 12, 2021, 11:47:53 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 12, 2021, 11:25:29 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 12, 2021, 11:12:26 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 12, 2021, 11:02:53 AM
rumours irish pubs to be closed at 7pm
So the virus has gone from coming out at 11 to coming out at 7. Sneaky f**ker.

Great and insightful take..
Well it's about as great and as insightful as deciding to close at 7. Ffs. Probably only rumours though.

Would closing at 7 not reduce the levels of drunkenness and alcohol-fueled throwing of caution to the wind when compared to 11?

Haven't really been a pub goer myself for many years, but I was usually a much more reckless person by 11pm than I was walking in the door around 6:30 or 7pm.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2021, 01:49:07 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on November 12, 2021, 01:44:06 PM
4th dose wow. No finishing point in sight folks.

Its going to be an annual dose like the flu jab. Might as well get used to it with such a transmissible, rapidly-evolving virus.

They'll probably end up combining the two, assuming that's possible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 01:58:34 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 11:59:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 11:02:30 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 10:49:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 08:10:52 AM
Sf basically some people will say anything against it no matter what. Is it disappointing we are still when we are? Yes. However it is still a huge improvement.

Lines come out like "it'll never be over". Ridiculous.

Well, since 90+% have been vaccinated,  rates still sky high, and they're drip feeding you info that there'll be a 3rd, 4th, 5th, 50th jab... it doesn't sound like this will go away to me. And it won't be. It could, but it won't.

Absolute nonsense.

Well as stated earlier, Israel are preparing for a 4th dose. Doesn't sound like it's going away does it? Maybe you just don't want to tell yourself that.

You didn't answer earlier, how could it be over? What could have been done to ensure it could be over?

There's ever chance it's not going away. But there's no point whinging about that. You have to play the hand your dealt and try and do what we can.

Do you not think there's a cure out there? Or at the very least, something better than these vaccines,  a drug that will eradicate covid so that it virtually prevents hospitalisation and death?  People  would live their life, go back to what they did before, safe in the knowledge that a drug would be on hand to sort it out. What do we have now? A vaccine dwindling in efficacy, people in fear (even those vaccinated!)cases sky high, imminent lockdowns, vaccine passports, continuous jabbing, big pharma cashing in etc. I mean, pharmaceuticals are making billions. Why would they find a cure? They have a market of 8 billion people to be jabbed 2 or maybe 3 times annually. You have to question all that . This is bigger than just a pandemic.  I'll leave it at that,  make up your own mind
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on November 12, 2021, 02:01:29 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1112/1259490-coronavirus-ireland/

NPHET recommends the snake oil.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 02:10:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 01:49:07 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on November 12, 2021, 01:44:06 PM
4th dose wow. No finishing point in sight folks.

Its going to be an annual dose like the flu jab. Might as well get used to it with such a transmissible, rapidly-evolving virus.

They'll probably end up combining the two, assuming that's possible.

No that's not good enough. And if we all  get annual or bi annual shots, then what?  Still run around with masks 24/7, vaccine passports, lockdowns, social distancing until the end of time,  everyone of us mentally tortured the rest of our days? There's something seriously wrong if people are already resigning themselves to a life of jabs, misery and control.  Politicians have f**ked this up for everyone, North south and further afield.  If you resign yourself to that attitude you're basically allowing the next set of b******s to do likewise with no  repercussions
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2021, 02:29:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 02:10:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 01:49:07 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on November 12, 2021, 01:44:06 PM
4th dose wow. No finishing point in sight folks.

Its going to be an annual dose like the flu jab. Might as well get used to it with such a transmissible, rapidly-evolving virus.

They'll probably end up combining the two, assuming that's possible.

No that's not good enough. And if we all  get annual or bi annual shots, then what?  Still run around with masks 24/7, vaccine passports, lockdowns, social distancing until the end of time,  everyone of us mentally tortured the rest of our days? There's something seriously wrong if people are already resigning themselves to a life of jabs, misery and control.  Politicians have f**ked this up for everyone, North south and further afield.  If you resign yourself to that attitude you're basically allowing the next set of b******s to do likewise with no  repercussions

Whether or not you personally think annual doses are "good enough" is irrelevant. If annual jabs or shots are medically necessary as with the flu, then that's the way it will be. The virus isn't going to be eradicated. We'll have to live with it, just like we live with lots of other pathogens, partly helped by vaccinations.

I agree on the other parts, but then that's the whole point of continuing to develop the vaccines, as well as the treatments for those who do get sick. We didn't have those before. We WILL have them in future, which will allow things to go back to normal.

I don't know about you, but I've had the vaccines and, more recently, the booster jab. I get tested every couple of weeks. I've been back at work, in the office, for 18 months. My kids are at school full-time, including after-school programmes (we'll hopefuuly get them vaccinated over the next month). I've been away with the family several times this year, including flights. Restaurants and pubs have been open in NYC for a while now, albeit in most places you need the vaccine card or passport to get in, which is great IMO. I've even been to a concert recently, although again, you needed a vaccine card to buy tickets and get in. If the weather is shit, I have to take the bus and subway to work instead of cycling.

Aside from wearing masks in indoor spaces, life is pretty much back to normal for me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 02:48:45 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 01:58:34 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 11:59:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 11:02:30 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 10:49:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 08:10:52 AM
Sf basically some people will say anything against it no matter what. Is it disappointing we are still when we are? Yes. However it is still a huge improvement.

Lines come out like "it'll never be over". Ridiculous.

Well, since 90+% have been vaccinated,  rates still sky high, and they're drip feeding you info that there'll be a 3rd, 4th, 5th, 50th jab... it doesn't sound like this will go away to me. And it won't be. It could, but it won't.

Absolute nonsense.

Well as stated earlier, Israel are preparing for a 4th dose. Doesn't sound like it's going away does it? Maybe you just don't want to tell yourself that.

You didn't answer earlier, how could it be over? What could have been done to ensure it could be over?

There's ever chance it's not going away. But there's no point whinging about that. You have to play the hand your dealt and try and do what we can.

Do you not think there's a cure out there? Or at the very least, something better than these vaccines,  a drug that will eradicate covid so that it virtually prevents hospitalisation and death?  People  would live their life, go back to what they did before, safe in the knowledge that a drug would be on hand to sort it out. What do we have now? A vaccine dwindling in efficacy, people in fear (even those vaccinated!)cases sky high, imminent lockdowns, vaccine passports, continuous jabbing, big pharma cashing in etc. I mean, pharmaceuticals are making billions. Why would they find a cure? They have a market of 8 billion people to be jabbed 2 or maybe 3 times annually. You have to question all that . This is bigger than just a pandemic.  I'll leave it at that,  make up your own mind
Really. You think J&J will hid a drug that could end the pandemic and run the risk of letting a competitor get there first with the worldwide sales that could be involved? Not a chance. This is the reason I struggle to take your points seriously. You really are at the far end of the scale with your conspiracy ideas. There's no arguing with that, as it's not based on any evidence. You've just had a thought and decided in your head that it sounds feasible and just decided to accept it. Based on nothing. Surely you understand why people would look at that and wonder wtf.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 02:51:20 PM
Remember a couple of weeks ago it was the pandemic of the unvaccinated now it's a pandemic of the under vaccinated, but you are a loon for questioning any of this .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2021, 02:53:50 PM
There's bound to be a cure for cancer, some medication that can be taken that will eradicate it and we can get on with our lives!!! No, the big Pharma are holding out to make millions!! B'stards 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 02:58:57 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 02:51:20 PM
Remember a couple of weeks ago it was the pandemic of the unvaccinated now it's a pandemic of the under vaccinated, but you are a loon for questioning any of this .

It's fine to question it. Some of the reasons for questioning it sometimes are a bit bat shit crazy...

Things like "it'll never end" are just a load of tripe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on November 12, 2021, 03:02:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 02:29:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 02:10:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 01:49:07 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on November 12, 2021, 01:44:06 PM
4th dose wow. No finishing point in sight folks.

Its going to be an annual dose like the flu jab. Might as well get used to it with such a transmissible, rapidly-evolving virus.

They'll probably end up combining the two, assuming that's possible.

No that's not good enough. And if we all  get annual or bi annual shots, then what?  Still run around with masks 24/7, vaccine passports, lockdowns, social distancing until the end of time,  everyone of us mentally tortured the rest of our days? There's something seriously wrong if people are already resigning themselves to a life of jabs, misery and control.  Politicians have f**ked this up for everyone, North south and further afield.  If you resign yourself to that attitude you're basically allowing the next set of b******s to do likewise with no  repercussions

Whether or not you personally think annual doses are "good enough" is irrelevant. If annual jabs or shots are medically necessary as with the flu, then that's the way it will be. The virus isn't going to be eradicated. We'll have to live with it, just like we live with lots of other pathogens, partly helped by vaccinations.

I agree on the other parts, but then that's the whole point of continuing to develop the vaccines, as well as the treatments for those who do get sick. We didn't have those before. We WILL have them in future, which will allow things to go back to normal.

I don't know about you, but I've had the vaccines and, more recently, the booster jab. I get tested every couple of weeks. I've been back at work, in the office, for 18 months. My kids are at school full-time, including after-school programmes (we'll hopefuuly get them vaccinated over the next month). I've been away with the family several times this year, including flights. Restaurants and pubs have been open in NYC for a while now, albeit in most places you need the vaccine card or passport to get in, which is great IMO. I've even been to a concert recently, although again, you needed a vaccine card to buy tickets and get in. If the weather is shit, I have to take the bus and subway to work instead of cycling.

Aside from wearing masks in indoor spaces, life is pretty much back to normal for me.

In your opinion why is this great? Why not be inclusive & have antigen testing so members of society can be included? You come across as an inclusive type of person, why take pleasure in excluding members of society when a simple test could include them. Not everybody is a Bat Chit mad person for not taking a vaccine which its medium to long term ill effects (if any) are not clearly defined.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 12, 2021, 03:14:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2021, 02:53:50 PM
There's bound to be a cure for cancer, some medication that can be taken that will eradicate it and we can get on with our lives!!! No, the big Pharma are holding out to make millions!! B'stards
Well that is an actual conspiracy theory that I have heard from people I know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2021, 03:18:18 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 12, 2021, 03:02:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 02:29:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 02:10:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 01:49:07 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on November 12, 2021, 01:44:06 PM
4th dose wow. No finishing point in sight folks.

Its going to be an annual dose like the flu jab. Might as well get used to it with such a transmissible, rapidly-evolving virus.

They'll probably end up combining the two, assuming that's possible.

No that's not good enough. And if we all  get annual or bi annual shots, then what?  Still run around with masks 24/7, vaccine passports, lockdowns, social distancing until the end of time,  everyone of us mentally tortured the rest of our days? There's something seriously wrong if people are already resigning themselves to a life of jabs, misery and control.  Politicians have f**ked this up for everyone, North south and further afield.  If you resign yourself to that attitude you're basically allowing the next set of b******s to do likewise with no  repercussions

Whether or not you personally think annual doses are "good enough" is irrelevant. If annual jabs or shots are medically necessary as with the flu, then that's the way it will be. The virus isn't going to be eradicated. We'll have to live with it, just like we live with lots of other pathogens, partly helped by vaccinations.

I agree on the other parts, but then that's the whole point of continuing to develop the vaccines, as well as the treatments for those who do get sick. We didn't have those before. We WILL have them in future, which will allow things to go back to normal.

I don't know about you, but I've had the vaccines and, more recently, the booster jab. I get tested every couple of weeks. I've been back at work, in the office, for 18 months. My kids are at school full-time, including after-school programmes (we'll hopefuuly get them vaccinated over the next month). I've been away with the family several times this year, including flights. Restaurants and pubs have been open in NYC for a while now, albeit in most places you need the vaccine card or passport to get in, which is great IMO. I've even been to a concert recently, although again, you needed a vaccine card to buy tickets and get in. If the weather is shit, I have to take the bus and subway to work instead of cycling.

Aside from wearing masks in indoor spaces, life is pretty much back to normal for me.

In your opinion why is this great? Why not be inclusive & have antigen testing so members of society can be included? You come across as an inclusive type of person, why take pleasure in excluding members of society when a simple test could include them. Not everybody is a Bat Chit mad person for not taking a vaccine which its medium to long term ill effects (if any) are not clearly defined.

I've no objection to that as such (assuming its a reliable, sensitive test), but its a simple question of pragmatism and logistics.

Whatever shape Ireland is in, NYC just doesn't have the capacity to run rapid Covid tests for every person who wants to go to a restaurant or pub or concert every time they want to do so.

And certainly not as a free public offering like testing currently is in the city.

And you'd still get the same usual suspects whinging about the testing mandate anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on November 12, 2021, 03:22:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 03:18:18 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 12, 2021, 03:02:17 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 02:29:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 02:10:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 01:49:07 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on November 12, 2021, 01:44:06 PM
4th dose wow. No finishing point in sight folks.

Its going to be an annual dose like the flu jab. Might as well get used to it with such a transmissible, rapidly-evolving virus.

They'll probably end up combining the two, assuming that's possible.

No that's not good enough. And if we all  get annual or bi annual shots, then what?  Still run around with masks 24/7, vaccine passports, lockdowns, social distancing until the end of time,  everyone of us mentally tortured the rest of our days? There's something seriously wrong if people are already resigning themselves to a life of jabs, misery and control.  Politicians have f**ked this up for everyone, North south and further afield.  If you resign yourself to that attitude you're basically allowing the next set of b******s to do likewise with no  repercussions

Whether or not you personally think annual doses are "good enough" is irrelevant. If annual jabs or shots are medically necessary as with the flu, then that's the way it will be. The virus isn't going to be eradicated. We'll have to live with it, just like we live with lots of other pathogens, partly helped by vaccinations.

I agree on the other parts, but then that's the whole point of continuing to develop the vaccines, as well as the treatments for those who do get sick. We didn't have those before. We WILL have them in future, which will allow things to go back to normal.

I don't know about you, but I've had the vaccines and, more recently, the booster jab. I get tested every couple of weeks. I've been back at work, in the office, for 18 months. My kids are at school full-time, including after-school programmes (we'll hopefuuly get them vaccinated over the next month). I've been away with the family several times this year, including flights. Restaurants and pubs have been open in NYC for a while now, albeit in most places you need the vaccine card or passport to get in, which is great IMO. I've even been to a concert recently, although again, you needed a vaccine card to buy tickets and get in. If the weather is shit, I have to take the bus and subway to work instead of cycling.

Aside from wearing masks in indoor spaces, life is pretty much back to normal for me.

In your opinion why is this great? Why not be inclusive & have antigen testing so members of society can be included? You come across as an inclusive type of person, why take pleasure in excluding members of society when a simple test could include them. Not everybody is a Bat Chit mad person for not taking a vaccine which its medium to long term ill effects (if any) are not clearly defined.

I've no objection to that as such (assuming its a reliable, sensitive test), but its a simple question of pragmatism and logistics.

Whatever shape Ireland is in, NYC just doesn't have the capacity to run rapid Covid tests for every person who wants to go to a restaurant or pub or concert every time they want to do so.

And certainly not as a free public offering like testing currently is in the city.

And you'd still get the same usual suspects whinging about the testing mandate anyway.

Cheers for the reply a very reasonable one too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 12, 2021, 03:49:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2021, 02:53:50 PM
There's bound to be a cure for cancer, some medication that can be taken that will eradicate it and we can get on with our lives!!! No, the big Pharma are holding out to make millions!! B'stards
Surely they make more from treating it than curing it so not sure what point you're trying to make there...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2021, 04:09:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 12, 2021, 03:49:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2021, 02:53:50 PM
There's bound to be a cure for cancer, some medication that can be taken that will eradicate it and we can get on with our lives!!! No, the big Pharma are holding out to make millions!! B'stards
Surely they make more from treating it than curing it so not sure what point you're trying to make there...

Seriously?

You can't imagine what finding a cure for a particular type of cancer would do for a pharmaceutical company? The stock price? The skyrocketing PR and credibility which would lead to the ability to attract government funding and top researchers for your other programmes? The bags of money to be made from owning a patented cure?

Its not like there aren't hundreds of cancers out there with hundreds of different causes, both environmental and genetic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 04:13:16 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 12, 2021, 03:14:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2021, 02:53:50 PM
There's bound to be a cure for cancer, some medication that can be taken that will eradicate it and we can get on with our lives!!! No, the big Pharma are holding out to make millions!! B'stards
Well that is an actual conspiracy theory that I have heard from people I know.

I have read this one a lot too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 04:56:59 PM
Sounds like Austria are locking up unvaccinated people and banishing them from society , yellow patches worked before maybe they should try again #nazis
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: northsideboy on November 12, 2021, 05:05:03 PM
If you actually knew and understood what the Nazis did, you either are extremely stupid or you would be a Nazi sympathiser yourself. #logicdenier
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 05:09:04 PM
Quote from: northsideboy on November 12, 2021, 05:05:03 PM
If you actually knew and understood what the Nazis did, you either are extremely stupid or you would be a Nazi sympathiser yourself. #logicdenier
or so your fine with this type of government overreach?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2021, 05:11:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 04:56:59 PM
Sounds like Austria are locking up unvaccinated people and banishing them from society , yellow patches worked before maybe they should try again #nazis

Yes, they're stockpiling the cattle cars now in the railyards to start shipping them out to the death camps. ::)

You know, you could just say that Austria is bringing back the same lockdowns we all experienced earlier in the pandemic, but you think its unfair that they're only imposing it this time on those who are unvaccinated and start the discussion there, assuming you're actually interested in one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on November 12, 2021, 05:16:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 04:56:59 PM
Sounds like Austria are locking up unvaccinated people and banishing them from society , yellow patches worked before maybe they should try again #nazis

One of the most idiotic things I've read here since the glory days of Angelo.

As they say. No cure for stupid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 12, 2021, 05:17:05 PM
What's it to an Irish individual turned right wing yank what the sovereign nation of Austria does to protest its public health from ignorant  disease spreaders.

Meanwhile 5,483 cases reported in the 26 today..... :'(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 05:25:02 PM
Quote from: Louther on November 12, 2021, 05:16:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 04:56:59 PM
Sounds like Austria are locking up unvaccinated people and banishing them from society , yellow patches worked before maybe they should try again #nazis

One of the most idiotic things I've read here since the glory days of Angelo.

As they say. No cure for stupid.
your in favor of taking away people's rights to work , feed their families their basic human rights because they won't take a shot (it's not a vaccine) that doesn't stop spread or transmission of virus? But at same time you are so worried about them ending up in hospital , ye right
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2021, 05:27:08 PM
"Its not a vaccine"??? :o  ;D

Tell us more Gmac.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on November 12, 2021, 05:30:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 05:25:02 PM
Quote from: Louther on November 12, 2021, 05:16:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 04:56:59 PM
Sounds like Austria are locking up unvaccinated people and banishing them from society , yellow patches worked before maybe they should try again #nazis

One of the most idiotic things I've read here since the glory days of Angelo.

As they say. No cure for stupid.
your in favor of taking away people's rights to work , feed their families their basic human rights because they won't take a shot (it's not a vaccine) that doesn't stop spread or transmission of virus? But at same time you are so worried about them ending up in hospital , ye right

Ah, the good old "make stuff up" retort.

Cause that's exactly what is going to happen and you know this before the Austrians even know it.

Ireland's loss has really been America's gain.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 05:31:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 05:27:08 PM
"Its not a vaccine"??? :o  ;D

Tell us more Gmac.
the definition changed recently I wonder why , semantics I'm sure
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 05:34:14 PM
Quote from: Louther on November 12, 2021, 05:30:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 05:25:02 PM
Quote from: Louther on November 12, 2021, 05:16:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 04:56:59 PM
Sounds like Austria are locking up unvaccinated people and banishing them from society , yellow patches worked before maybe they should try again #nazis

One of the most idiotic things I've read here since the glory days of Angelo.

As they say. No cure for stupid.
your in favor of taking away people's rights to work , feed their families their basic human rights because they won't take a shot (it's not a vaccine) that doesn't stop spread or transmission of virus? But at same time you are so worried about them ending up in hospital , ye right

Ah, the good old "make stuff up" retort.

Cause that's exactly what is going to happen and you know this before the Austrians even know it.

Ireland's loss has really been America's gain.
wee mans mentality from the wee county
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on November 12, 2021, 05:36:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 05:34:14 PM
Quote from: Louther on November 12, 2021, 05:30:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 05:25:02 PM
Quote from: Louther on November 12, 2021, 05:16:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 04:56:59 PM
Sounds like Austria are locking up unvaccinated people and banishing them from society , yellow patches worked before maybe they should try again #nazis

One of the most idiotic things I've read here since the glory days of Angelo.

As they say. No cure for stupid.
your in favor of taking away people's rights to work , feed their families their basic human rights because they won't take a shot (it's not a vaccine) that doesn't stop spread or transmission of virus? But at same time you are so worried about them ending up in hospital , ye right

Ah, the good old "make stuff up" retort.

Cause that's exactly what is going to happen and you know this before the Austrians even know it.

Ireland's loss has really been America's gain.
wee mans mentality from the wee county

Brilliant. What a legend. Americas finest. Please come home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2021, 05:38:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 05:31:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 05:27:08 PM
"Its not a vaccine"??? :o  ;D

Tell us more Gmac.
the definition changed recently I wonder why , semantics I'm sure

Well, you appear to know, so why don't you explain it all to us?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on November 12, 2021, 05:41:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 12, 2021, 05:17:05 PM
What's it to an Irish individual turned right wing yank what the sovereign nation of Austria does to protest its public health from ignorant  disease spreaders.

Meanwhile 5,483 cases reported in the 26 today..... :'(

Same oul shite from you, "right wing" default, "ignorant disease spreaders".  So people who are not vaccinated with a Covid vaccine are ignorant disease spreads. You have to have Covid in the first place to spread it, unvaccinated who have Covid are slightly more likely to spread it than vaccinated who have it. Adults who are unvaccinated are effectively eliminated from key facilities where the disease spreads.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 06:30:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 05:38:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 05:31:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 05:27:08 PM
"Its not a vaccine"??? :o  ;D

Tell us more Gmac.
the definition changed recently I wonder why , semantics I'm sure

Well, you appear to know, so why don't you explain it all to us?
from immunity to (protection)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2021, 06:41:35 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 12, 2021, 03:49:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 12, 2021, 02:53:50 PM
There's bound to be a cure for cancer, some medication that can be taken that will eradicate it and we can get on with our lives!!! No, the big Pharma are holding out to make millions!! B'stards
Surely they make more from treating it than curing it so not sure what point you're trying to make there...

So they are actively not trying to find a cure for cancer? Wow! A quick search shows how pharmaceutical companies have found 'cures' to many conditions which were unimaginable years ago!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2021, 07:00:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 06:30:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 05:38:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 05:31:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 05:27:08 PM
"Its not a vaccine"??? :o  ;D

Tell us more Gmac.
the definition changed recently I wonder why , semantics I'm sure

Well, you appear to know, so why don't you explain it all to us?
from immunity to (protection)

Took a minute to figure out you were on about, and, surprise, looks like more right wing bullshit, this time emanating from Thomas Massie of Kansas. I would call him the village idiot of The House, but there's too much competition to just single him out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/09/vaccine-skeptics-claim-new-cdc-gotcha-moment-they-havent-got-much/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/09/vaccine-skeptics-claim-new-cdc-gotcha-moment-they-havent-got-much/)

Anyway, I don't ever remember immunity meaning anything other than protection against a disease. Which is what a vaccine offers. And there is simply no one who has been paying attention, for example, to flu vaccines over the past 20 years who didn't know that getting one absolutely doesn't mean you will be 100% certain not to get the flu. Similarly, I had to get a tetanus booster back in the summer when I cut myself on a rusty screw while working on my deck. Probably would have been ok, but it had been a while since my last one so I couldn't be sure I'd be protected i.e. immune.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 07:14:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 07:00:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 06:30:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 05:38:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 05:31:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 05:27:08 PM
"Its not a vaccine"??? :o  ;D

Tell us more Gmac.
the definition changed recently I wonder why , semantics I'm sure

Well, you appear to know, so why don't you explain it all to us?
from immunity to (protection)

Took a minute to figure out you were on about, and, surprise, looks like more right wing bullshit, this time emanating from Thomas Massie of Kansas. I would call him the village idiot of The House, but there's too much competition to just single him out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/09/vaccine-skeptics-claim-new-cdc-gotcha-moment-they-havent-got-much/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/09/vaccine-skeptics-claim-new-cdc-gotcha-moment-they-havent-got-much/)

Anyway, I don't ever remember immunity meaning anything other than protection against a disease. Which is what a vaccine offers. And there is simply no one who has been paying attention, for example, to flu vaccines over the past 20 years who didn't know that getting one absolutely doesn't mean you will be 100% certain not to get the flu. Similarly, I had to get a tetanus booster back in the summer when I cut myself on a rusty screw while working on my deck. Probably would have been ok, but it had been a while since my last one so I couldn't be sure I'd be protected i.e. immune.
again with the right wing bs the cdc changed their definition.
Tetanus shot one every 10/15
You will be leaking soon the amount of injections your getting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 07:15:55 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 02:48:45 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 01:58:34 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 11:59:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 11:02:30 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 10:49:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 08:10:52 AM
Sf basically some people will say anything against it no matter what. Is it disappointing we are still when we are? Yes. However it is still a huge improvement.

Lines come out like "it'll never be over". Ridiculous.

Well, since 90+% have been vaccinated,  rates still sky high, and they're drip feeding you info that there'll be a 3rd, 4th, 5th, 50th jab... it doesn't sound like this will go away to me. And it won't be. It could, but it won't.

Absolute nonsense.

Well as stated earlier, Israel are preparing for a 4th dose. Doesn't sound like it's going away does it? Maybe you just don't want to tell yourself that.

You didn't answer earlier, how could it be over? What could have been done to ensure it could be over?

There's ever chance it's not going away. But there's no point whinging about that. You have to play the hand your dealt and try and do what we can.

Do you not think there's a cure out there? Or at the very least, something better than these vaccines,  a drug that will eradicate covid so that it virtually prevents hospitalisation and death?  People  would live their life, go back to what they did before, safe in the knowledge that a drug would be on hand to sort it out. What do we have now? A vaccine dwindling in efficacy, people in fear (even those vaccinated!)cases sky high, imminent lockdowns, vaccine passports, continuous jabbing, big pharma cashing in etc. I mean, pharmaceuticals are making billions. Why would they find a cure? They have a market of 8 billion people to be jabbed 2 or maybe 3 times annually. You have to question all that . This is bigger than just a pandemic.  I'll leave it at that,  make up your own mind
Really. You think J&J will hid a drug that could end the pandemic and run the risk of letting a competitor get there first with the worldwide sales that could be involved? Not a chance. This is the reason I struggle to take your points seriously. You really are at the far end of the scale with your conspiracy ideas. There's no arguing with that, as it's not based on any evidence. You've just had a thought and decided in your head that it sounds feasible and just decided to accept it. Based on nothing. Surely you understand why people would look at that and wonder wtf.

You don't have to read my posts or take anything seriously. You might call it conspiracy, I call it realism. As for accepting things, maybe you should try not hanging on every word spouted by politicians, mainstream media  and pharmaceuticals and question things. Lord knows there's plenty to question
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 12, 2021, 07:21:06 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 07:15:55 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 02:48:45 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 01:58:34 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 11:59:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 11:02:30 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 10:49:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 08:10:52 AM
Sf basically some people will say anything against it no matter what. Is it disappointing we are still when we are? Yes. However it is still a huge improvement.

Lines come out like "it'll never be over". Ridiculous.

Well, since 90+% have been vaccinated,  rates still sky high, and they're drip feeding you info that there'll be a 3rd, 4th, 5th, 50th jab... it doesn't sound like this will go away to me. And it won't be. It could, but it won't.

Absolute nonsense.

Well as stated earlier, Israel are preparing for a 4th dose. Doesn't sound like it's going away does it? Maybe you just don't want to tell yourself that.

You didn't answer earlier, how could it be over? What could have been done to ensure it could be over?

There's ever chance it's not going away. But there's no point whinging about that. You have to play the hand your dealt and try and do what we can.

Do you not think there's a cure out there? Or at the very least, something better than these vaccines,  a drug that will eradicate covid so that it virtually prevents hospitalisation and death?  People  would live their life, go back to what they did before, safe in the knowledge that a drug would be on hand to sort it out. What do we have now? A vaccine dwindling in efficacy, people in fear (even those vaccinated!)cases sky high, imminent lockdowns, vaccine passports, continuous jabbing, big pharma cashing in etc. I mean, pharmaceuticals are making billions. Why would they find a cure? They have a market of 8 billion people to be jabbed 2 or maybe 3 times annually. You have to question all that . This is bigger than just a pandemic.  I'll leave it at that,  make up your own mind
Really. You think J&J will hid a drug that could end the pandemic and run the risk of letting a competitor get there first with the worldwide sales that could be involved? Not a chance. This is the reason I struggle to take your points seriously. You really are at the far end of the scale with your conspiracy ideas. There's no arguing with that, as it's not based on any evidence. You've just had a thought and decided in your head that it sounds feasible and just decided to accept it. Based on nothing. Surely you understand why people would look at that and wonder wtf.

You don't have to read my posts or take anything seriously. You might call it conspiracy, I call it realism. As for accepting things, maybe you should try not hanging on every word spouted by politicians, mainstream media  and pharmaceuticals and question things. Lord knows there's plenty to question

;D   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 12, 2021, 07:22:01 PM
5,483 new cases in the 26 counties.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on November 12, 2021, 07:44:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 12, 2021, 07:22:01 PM
5,483 new cases in the 26 counties.

Which includes a backlog of over 1,200 cases. 190,102 tested in the last week, the highest ever 7 day testing figure in ROI. 18 to 24 years olds is the aged group that has the most testing positive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on November 12, 2021, 07:53:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 07:15:55 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 02:48:45 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 01:58:34 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 11:59:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 11:02:30 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 10:49:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 08:10:52 AM
Sf basically some people will say anything against it no matter what. Is it disappointing we are still when we are? Yes. However it is still a huge improvement.

Lines come out like "it'll never be over". Ridiculous.

Well, since 90+% have been vaccinated,  rates still sky high, and they're drip feeding you info that there'll be a 3rd, 4th, 5th, 50th jab... it doesn't sound like this will go away to me. And it won't be. It could, but it won't.

Absolute nonsense.

Well as stated earlier, Israel are preparing for a 4th dose. Doesn't sound like it's going away does it? Maybe you just don't want to tell yourself that.

You didn't answer earlier, how could it be over? What could have been done to ensure it could be over?

There's ever chance it's not going away. But there's no point whinging about that. You have to play the hand your dealt and try and do what we can.

Do you not think there's a cure out there? Or at the very least, something better than these vaccines,  a drug that will eradicate covid so that it virtually prevents hospitalisation and death?  People  would live their life, go back to what they did before, safe in the knowledge that a drug would be on hand to sort it out. What do we have now? A vaccine dwindling in efficacy, people in fear (even those vaccinated!)cases sky high, imminent lockdowns, vaccine passports, continuous jabbing, big pharma cashing in etc. I mean, pharmaceuticals are making billions. Why would they find a cure? They have a market of 8 billion people to be jabbed 2 or maybe 3 times annually. You have to question all that . This is bigger than just a pandemic.  I'll leave it at that,  make up your own mind
Really. You think J&J will hid a drug that could end the pandemic and run the risk of letting a competitor get there first with the worldwide sales that could be involved? Not a chance. This is the reason I struggle to take your points seriously. You really are at the far end of the scale with your conspiracy ideas. There's no arguing with that, as it's not based on any evidence. You've just had a thought and decided in your head that it sounds feasible and just decided to accept it. Based on nothing. Surely you understand why people would look at that and wonder wtf.

You don't have to read my posts or take anything seriously. You might call it conspiracy, I call it realism. As for accepting things, maybe you should try not hanging on every word spouted by politicians, mainstream media  and pharmaceuticals and question things. Lord knows there's plenty to question

it is conspiracy.. it not realism... what expertise do you have to question regulators, scientists etc. there are peer reviews different regulators across different regions etc.   Do you have opposing views backed up with scientific evidence or is it just you don't trust anything. i don't have the expertise but have family in the medical profession I would question/query stuff with at least better informed than I.  if anything MSM sanitised how bad it was in hospitals during the worst periods of Covid by the way.

Media and politicians can be bias, absolutly no doubt about that. MSM are in my opinion less bias than those sites etc. that tell you not to trust MSM. That doesn't  mean when they report on science etc. because they are MSM it is wrong.

to.be honest reading some of your posts over the last year or so I have wondered do your friends and family worry about you as it cannot be healthy to have such a mindset with your level of scepatism. I honestly do not mean that in any negative way and take mental health very seriously..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 07:59:05 PM
I would share those same views  :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on November 12, 2021, 08:06:03 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 07:59:05 PM
I would share those same views  :(

based on what evidence.. please do not post some example of fines of pharm companies etc. because all that shows is the checks and balances and regulations etc. work. just because there is an example of poor behaviour doesn't mean everyone acts that way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 08:09:24 PM
Sorry I mean on Benny. It's just not healthy :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 12, 2021, 08:26:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 07:15:55 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 02:48:45 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 01:58:34 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 11:59:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 11:02:30 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 10:49:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 08:10:52 AM
Sf basically some people will say anything against it no matter what. Is it disappointing we are still when we are? Yes. However it is still a huge improvement.

Lines come out like "it'll never be over". Ridiculous.

Well, since 90+% have been vaccinated,  rates still sky high, and they're drip feeding you info that there'll be a 3rd, 4th, 5th, 50th jab... it doesn't sound like this will go away to me. And it won't be. It could, but it won't.

Absolute nonsense.

Well as stated earlier, Israel are preparing for a 4th dose. Doesn't sound like it's going away does it? Maybe you just don't want to tell yourself that.

You didn't answer earlier, how could it be over? What could have been done to ensure it could be over?

There's ever chance it's not going away. But there's no point whinging about that. You have to play the hand your dealt and try and do what we can.

Do you not think there's a cure out there? Or at the very least, something better than these vaccines,  a drug that will eradicate covid so that it virtually prevents hospitalisation and death?  People  would live their life, go back to what they did before, safe in the knowledge that a drug would be on hand to sort it out. What do we have now? A vaccine dwindling in efficacy, people in fear (even those vaccinated!)cases sky high, imminent lockdowns, vaccine passports, continuous jabbing, big pharma cashing in etc. I mean, pharmaceuticals are making billions. Why would they find a cure? They have a market of 8 billion people to be jabbed 2 or maybe 3 times annually. You have to question all that . This is bigger than just a pandemic.  I'll leave it at that,  make up your own mind
Really. You think J&J will hid a drug that could end the pandemic and run the risk of letting a competitor get there first with the worldwide sales that could be involved? Not a chance. This is the reason I struggle to take your points seriously. You really are at the far end of the scale with your conspiracy ideas. There's no arguing with that, as it's not based on any evidence. You've just had a thought and decided in your head that it sounds feasible and just decided to accept it. Based on nothing. Surely you understand why people would look at that and wonder wtf.

You don't have to read my posts or take anything seriously. You might call it conspiracy, I call it realism. As for accepting things, maybe you should try not hanging on every word spouted by politicians, mainstream media  and pharmaceuticals and question things. Lord knows there's plenty to question

Do you seriously think there are a group of scientists sitting in a lab somewhere that have the magic "cure" for COVID - and instead of releasing it, collecting their Nobel prize and probably getting paid millions to do whatever they want over the rest of their careers they are sitting on it?


Please don't be stupid enough to try and come back with crap about NDAs. You know as well as I do that if that ever went before a court, it'd be the executive board of the company who withheld it that would be facing large jail terms, and depending on the country, potentially life or even capital punishment, not the person who broke an NDA to release it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2021, 08:29:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 07:14:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 07:00:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 06:30:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 05:38:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 05:31:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 05:27:08 PM
"Its not a vaccine"??? :o  ;D

Tell us more Gmac.
the definition changed recently I wonder why , semantics I'm sure

Well, you appear to know, so why don't you explain it all to us?
from immunity to (protection)

Took a minute to figure out you were on about, and, surprise, looks like more right wing bullshit, this time emanating from Thomas Massie of Kansas. I would call him the village idiot of The House, but there's too much competition to just single him out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/09/vaccine-skeptics-claim-new-cdc-gotcha-moment-they-havent-got-much/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/09/vaccine-skeptics-claim-new-cdc-gotcha-moment-they-havent-got-much/)

Anyway, I don't ever remember immunity meaning anything other than protection against a disease. Which is what a vaccine offers. And there is simply no one who has been paying attention, for example, to flu vaccines over the past 20 years who didn't know that getting one absolutely doesn't mean you will be 100% certain not to get the flu. Similarly, I had to get a tetanus booster back in the summer when I cut myself on a rusty screw while working on my deck. Probably would have been ok, but it had been a while since my last one so I couldn't be sure I'd be protected i.e. immune.
again with the right wing bs the cdc changed their definition.
Tetanus shot one every 10/15
You will be leaking soon the amount of injections your getting.

So what if they changed the words of the definition? Maybe they felt it needed to be updated on account of all the bullshit from the anti-vaxxers.

The real world meaning, the real application, hasn't changed a bit.

Immune still means protected. The covid vaccine is still a vaccine.

What trivial piece of nonsense will you seize upon next?

Its hard to keep up with you on your normal political fails, but if I remember correctly you were previously bullshitting about the CDC supposedly claiming PCR tests couldn't distinguish between covid and flu, as well as claiming that the inventor of the PCR test saying that they couldn't detect covid or any other virus.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 09:12:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 08:29:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 07:14:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 07:00:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 06:30:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 05:38:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 05:31:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 05:27:08 PM
"Its not a vaccine"??? :o  ;D

Tell us more Gmac.
the definition changed recently I wonder why , semantics I'm sure

Well, you appear to know, so why don't you explain it all to us?
from immunity to (protection)

Took a minute to figure out you were on about, and, surprise, looks like more right wing bullshit, this time emanating from Thomas Massie of Kansas. I would call him the village idiot of The House, but there's too much competition to just single him out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/09/vaccine-skeptics-claim-new-cdc-gotcha-moment-they-havent-got-much/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/09/vaccine-skeptics-claim-new-cdc-gotcha-moment-they-havent-got-much/)

Anyway, I don't ever remember immunity meaning anything other than protection against a disease. Which is what a vaccine offers. And there is simply no one who has been paying attention, for example, to flu vaccines over the past 20 years who didn't know that getting one absolutely doesn't mean you will be 100% certain not to get the flu. Similarly, I had to get a tetanus booster back in the summer when I cut myself on a rusty screw while working on my deck. Probably would have been ok, but it had been a while since my last one so I couldn't be sure I'd be protected i.e. immune.
again with the right wing bs the cdc changed their definition.
Tetanus shot one every 10/15
You will be leaking soon the amount of injections your getting.

So what if they changed the words of the definition? Maybe they felt it needed to be updated on account of all the bullshit from the anti-vaxxers.

The real world meaning, the real application, hasn't changed a bit.

Immune still means protected. The covid vaccine is still a vaccine.

What trivial piece of nonsense will you seize upon next?

Its hard to keep up with you on your normal political fails, but if I remember correctly you were previously bullshitting about the CDC supposedly claiming PCR tests couldn't distinguish between covid and flu, as well as claiming that the inventor of the PCR test saying that they couldn't detect covid or any other virus.
an Irish rugby player tested positive for covid  this morning this afternoon he's negative , twice
What the guy who developed them said was you could make a pcr test pick up the most minuscule amount of the virus and make the test positive , be like having a beer yesterday and having a tiny amount of alcohol in your system today but you are not positive for drunk driving because it's a tiny amount and there's a threshold to be over,  in pcr tests there isn't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 09:13:33 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 12, 2021, 07:53:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 07:15:55 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 02:48:45 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 01:58:34 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 11:59:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 11:02:30 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 10:49:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 08:10:52 AM
Sf basically some people will say anything against it no matter what. Is it disappointing we are still when we are? Yes. However it is still a huge improvement.

Lines come out like "it'll never be over". Ridiculous.

Well, since 90+% have been vaccinated,  rates still sky high, and they're drip feeding you info that there'll be a 3rd, 4th, 5th, 50th jab... it doesn't sound like this will go away to me. And it won't be. It could, but it won't.

Absolute nonsense.

Well as stated earlier, Israel are preparing for a 4th dose. Doesn't sound like it's going away does it? Maybe you just don't want to tell yourself that.

You didn't answer earlier, how could it be over? What could have been done to ensure it could be over?

There's ever chance it's not going away. But there's no point whinging about that. You have to play the hand your dealt and try and do what we can.

Do you not think there's a cure out there? Or at the very least, something better than these vaccines,  a drug that will eradicate covid so that it virtually prevents hospitalisation and death?  People  would live their life, go back to what they did before, safe in the knowledge that a drug would be on hand to sort it out. What do we have now? A vaccine dwindling in efficacy, people in fear (even those vaccinated!)cases sky high, imminent lockdowns, vaccine passports, continuous jabbing, big pharma cashing in etc. I mean, pharmaceuticals are making billions. Why would they find a cure? They have a market of 8 billion people to be jabbed 2 or maybe 3 times annually. You have to question all that . This is bigger than just a pandemic.  I'll leave it at that,  make up your own mind
Really. You think J&J will hid a drug that could end the pandemic and run the risk of letting a competitor get there first with the worldwide sales that could be involved? Not a chance. This is the reason I struggle to take your points seriously. You really are at the far end of the scale with your conspiracy ideas. There's no arguing with that, as it's not based on any evidence. You've just had a thought and decided in your head that it sounds feasible and just decided to accept it. Based on nothing. Surely you understand why people would look at that and wonder wtf.

You don't have to read my posts or take anything seriously. You might call it conspiracy, I call it realism. As for accepting things, maybe you should try not hanging on every word spouted by politicians, mainstream media  and pharmaceuticals and question things. Lord knows there's plenty to question

it is conspiracy.. it not realism... what expertise do you have to question regulators, scientists etc. there are peer reviews different regulators across different regions etc.   Do you have opposing views backed up with scientific evidence or is it just you don't trust anything. i don't have the expertise but have family in the medical profession I would question/query stuff with at least better informed than I.  if anything MSM sanitised how bad it was in hospitals during the worst periods of Covid by the way.

Media and politicians can be bias, absolutly no doubt about that. MSM are in my opinion less bias than those sites etc. that tell you not to trust MSM. That doesn't  mean when they report on science etc. because they are MSM it is wrong.

to.be honest reading some of your posts over the last year or so I have wondered do your friends and family worry about you as it cannot be healthy to have such a mindset with your level of scepatism. I honestly do not mean that in any negative way and take mental health very seriously..

There's one example of MSM reporting bullshit

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zy7c_FHiEac
(https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zy7c_FHiEac)

But hey, it's probably a conspiracy  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on November 12, 2021, 09:57:49 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 09:13:33 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 12, 2021, 07:53:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 07:15:55 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 02:48:45 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 01:58:34 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 11:59:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 11:02:30 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 10:49:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 08:10:52 AM
Sf basically some people will say anything against it no matter what. Is it disappointing we are still when we are? Yes. However it is still a huge improvement.

Lines come out like "it'll never be over". Ridiculous.

Well, since 90+% have been vaccinated,  rates still sky high, and they're drip feeding you info that there'll be a 3rd, 4th, 5th, 50th jab... it doesn't sound like this will go away to me. And it won't be. It could, but it won't.

Absolute nonsense.

Well as stated earlier, Israel are preparing for a 4th dose. Doesn't sound like it's going away does it? Maybe you just don't want to tell yourself that.

You didn't answer earlier, how could it be over? What could have been done to ensure it could be over?

There's ever chance it's not going away. But there's no point whinging about that. You have to play the hand your dealt and try and do what we can.

Do you not think there's a cure out there? Or at the very least, something better than these vaccines,  a drug that will eradicate covid so that it virtually prevents hospitalisation and death?  People  would live their life, go back to what they did before, safe in the knowledge that a drug would be on hand to sort it out. What do we have now? A vaccine dwindling in efficacy, people in fear (even those vaccinated!)cases sky high, imminent lockdowns, vaccine passports, continuous jabbing, big pharma cashing in etc. I mean, pharmaceuticals are making billions. Why would they find a cure? They have a market of 8 billion people to be jabbed 2 or maybe 3 times annually. You have to question all that . This is bigger than just a pandemic.  I'll leave it at that,  make up your own mind
Really. You think J&J will hid a drug that could end the pandemic and run the risk of letting a competitor get there first with the worldwide sales that could be involved? Not a chance. This is the reason I struggle to take your points seriously. You really are at the far end of the scale with your conspiracy ideas. There's no arguing with that, as it's not based on any evidence. You've just had a thought and decided in your head that it sounds feasible and just decided to accept it. Based on nothing. Surely you understand why people would look at that and wonder wtf.

You don't have to read my posts or take anything seriously. You might call it conspiracy, I call it realism. As for accepting things, maybe you should try not hanging on every word spouted by politicians, mainstream media  and pharmaceuticals and question things. Lord knows there's plenty to question

it is conspiracy.. it not realism... what expertise do you have to question regulators, scientists etc. there are peer reviews different regulators across different regions etc.   Do you have opposing views backed up with scientific evidence or is it just you don't trust anything. i don't have the expertise but have family in the medical profession I would question/query stuff with at least better informed than I.  if anything MSM sanitised how bad it was in hospitals during the worst periods of Covid by the way.

Media and politicians can be bias, absolutly no doubt about that. MSM are in my opinion less bias than those sites etc. that tell you not to trust MSM. That doesn't  mean when they report on science etc. because they are MSM it is wrong.

to.be honest reading some of your posts over the last year or so I have wondered do your friends and family worry about you as it cannot be healthy to have such a mindset with your level of scepatism. I honestly do not mean that in any negative way and take mental health very seriously..

There's one example of MSM reporting bullshit

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zy7c_FHiEac
(https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zy7c_FHiEac)

But hey, it's probably a conspiracy  ::)

thats 27 minutes I'll never get back!!! it was very clear from the beginning that he wasnt shy of a bit of bias either... I didn't understand why he didn't contact the journalists and ask for the 26 trials or whatever he couldn't fine.. he spend an hr looking for... why not contact merck and ask why they wouldn't conduct a further trial.

he spend about 3/5 minutes going through 3 points the article made to improve studies (I think) saying they never happen in his 25 years etc. saying they would be great but it doesn't happen in the real world and then read from the article that acknowledged that the authors were aware they were going beyond the norms of what was expected!!!!

he then decided this meant that all studies that didn't  use these methods were no use which from what he showed of the article was never said.  without looking at it again and I really don't want too, the point the article made was it would remove bias if those 3 points were done going forward, which he appeared to agree with when he was going through each one...

for my health I shouldn't waste time looking at that shit again
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 10:05:39 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 07:15:55 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 02:48:45 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 01:58:34 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 11:59:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 11:02:30 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 10:49:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 08:10:52 AM
Sf basically some people will say anything against it no matter what. Is it disappointing we are still when we are? Yes. However it is still a huge improvement.

Lines come out like "it'll never be over". Ridiculous.

Well, since 90+% have been vaccinated,  rates still sky high, and they're drip feeding you info that there'll be a 3rd, 4th, 5th, 50th jab... it doesn't sound like this will go away to me. And it won't be. It could, but it won't.

Absolute nonsense.

Well as stated earlier, Israel are preparing for a 4th dose. Doesn't sound like it's going away does it? Maybe you just don't want to tell yourself that.

You didn't answer earlier, how could it be over? What could have been done to ensure it could be over?

There's ever chance it's not going away. But there's no point whinging about that. You have to play the hand your dealt and try and do what we can.

Do you not think there's a cure out there? Or at the very least, something better than these vaccines,  a drug that will eradicate covid so that it virtually prevents hospitalisation and death?  People  would live their life, go back to what they did before, safe in the knowledge that a drug would be on hand to sort it out. What do we have now? A vaccine dwindling in efficacy, people in fear (even those vaccinated!)cases sky high, imminent lockdowns, vaccine passports, continuous jabbing, big pharma cashing in etc. I mean, pharmaceuticals are making billions. Why would they find a cure? They have a market of 8 billion people to be jabbed 2 or maybe 3 times annually. You have to question all that . This is bigger than just a pandemic.  I'll leave it at that,  make up your own mind
Really. You think J&J will hid a drug that could end the pandemic and run the risk of letting a competitor get there first with the worldwide sales that could be involved? Not a chance. This is the reason I struggle to take your points seriously. You really are at the far end of the scale with your conspiracy ideas. There's no arguing with that, as it's not based on any evidence. You've just had a thought and decided in your head that it sounds feasible and just decided to accept it. Based on nothing. Surely you understand why people would look at that and wonder wtf.

You don't have to read my posts or take anything seriously. You might call it conspiracy, I call it realism. As for accepting things, maybe you should try not hanging on every word spouted by politicians, mainstream media  and pharmaceuticals and question things. Lord knows there's plenty to question

But it's not realism if it's just based on a thought in your head. You can keep an open mind and question things. But that only works if you do that for everything. And if you do that, you'll realise your ideas don't stand up to scrutiny. So why do you not question those in the same way you question the MSM. It's just nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 12, 2021, 11:36:25 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 12, 2021, 08:26:49 PM
Do you seriously think there are a group of scientists sitting in a lab somewhere that have the magic "cure" for COVID - and instead of releasing it, collecting their Nobel prize and probably getting paid millions to do whatever they want over the rest of their careers they are sitting on it?

This.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 13, 2021, 12:40:03 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 09:13:33 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 12, 2021, 07:53:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 07:15:55 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 02:48:45 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 01:58:34 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2021, 12:14:26 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 11:59:14 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 11:02:30 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 12, 2021, 10:49:13 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 12, 2021, 08:10:52 AM
Sf basically some people will say anything against it no matter what. Is it disappointing we are still when we are? Yes. However it is still a huge improvement.

Lines come out like "it'll never be over". Ridiculous.

Well, since 90+% have been vaccinated,  rates still sky high, and they're drip feeding you info that there'll be a 3rd, 4th, 5th, 50th jab... it doesn't sound like this will go away to me. And it won't be. It could, but it won't.

Absolute nonsense.

Well as stated earlier, Israel are preparing for a 4th dose. Doesn't sound like it's going away does it? Maybe you just don't want to tell yourself that.

You didn't answer earlier, how could it be over? What could have been done to ensure it could be over?

There's ever chance it's not going away. But there's no point whinging about that. You have to play the hand your dealt and try and do what we can.

Do you not think there's a cure out there? Or at the very least, something better than these vaccines,  a drug that will eradicate covid so that it virtually prevents hospitalisation and death?  People  would live their life, go back to what they did before, safe in the knowledge that a drug would be on hand to sort it out. What do we have now? A vaccine dwindling in efficacy, people in fear (even those vaccinated!)cases sky high, imminent lockdowns, vaccine passports, continuous jabbing, big pharma cashing in etc. I mean, pharmaceuticals are making billions. Why would they find a cure? They have a market of 8 billion people to be jabbed 2 or maybe 3 times annually. You have to question all that . This is bigger than just a pandemic.  I'll leave it at that,  make up your own mind
Really. You think J&J will hid a drug that could end the pandemic and run the risk of letting a competitor get there first with the worldwide sales that could be involved? Not a chance. This is the reason I struggle to take your points seriously. You really are at the far end of the scale with your conspiracy ideas. There's no arguing with that, as it's not based on any evidence. You've just had a thought and decided in your head that it sounds feasible and just decided to accept it. Based on nothing. Surely you understand why people would look at that and wonder wtf.

You don't have to read my posts or take anything seriously. You might call it conspiracy, I call it realism. As for accepting things, maybe you should try not hanging on every word spouted by politicians, mainstream media  and pharmaceuticals and question things. Lord knows there's plenty to question

it is conspiracy.. it not realism... what expertise do you have to question regulators, scientists etc. there are peer reviews different regulators across different regions etc.   Do you have opposing views backed up with scientific evidence or is it just you don't trust anything. i don't have the expertise but have family in the medical profession I would question/query stuff with at least better informed than I.  if anything MSM sanitised how bad it was in hospitals during the worst periods of Covid by the way.

Media and politicians can be bias, absolutly no doubt about that. MSM are in my opinion less bias than those sites etc. that tell you not to trust MSM. That doesn't  mean when they report on science etc. because they are MSM it is wrong.

to.be honest reading some of your posts over the last year or so I have wondered do your friends and family worry about you as it cannot be healthy to have such a mindset with your level of scepatism. I honestly do not mean that in any negative way and take mental health very seriously..

There's one example of MSM reporting bullshit

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zy7c_FHiEac
(https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zy7c_FHiEac)

But hey, it's probably a conspiracy  ::)

Fair play to that lad, he's making a fortune from his YouTube channel exploiting morons educating critical thinkers such as yourself.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on November 13, 2021, 01:05:24 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 13, 2021, 12:50:33 AM
Critical thinkers here? BMJ expert saying what we're all thinking, well what some of us are thinking

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/peter-doshi-u-s-senator-ron-johnson-holds-panel-in-dc-on-covid-19-vaccine-mandates-and-injuries_LWTWpHPVdy2Ye6U.html (https://brandnewtube.com/watch/peter-doshi-u-s-senator-ron-johnson-holds-panel-in-dc-on-covid-19-vaccine-mandates-and-injuries_LWTWpHPVdy2Ye6U.html)

This, is discussion allowed?. Probably not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 13, 2021, 04:42:20 AM
a rise in cases inline with gaa club championships lots of gallivanting within counties
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on November 13, 2021, 06:29:26 AM
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/i-lost-my-job-for-speaking-out-but-i-have-no-regrets-dr-martin-feeley-on-his-coronavirus-views-39585808.html


They sacked the culchie back in the day
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on November 13, 2021, 07:09:20 AM
that critical thinking video would be pulled apart by that lad I spend 27 mins watching last night.. firstly he starts with a fault premise that "everyone knows..." and then he only cites one example... he does not state if 6 mths or 1 year has passed since those extra deaths have occurred or what medical conditions they had but he loves the dictionary definitions so they might have had being pedantic on irrelevant details in common.

if there are peer reviews and qualified medical people getting different results etc. or regulatory concerns that is where the debate should be had not on social media/MSM etc.

as for poor auld Martin Luther Feeely the article is over 12 months old now... not sure what relevance it has now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 13, 2021, 08:37:40 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/jennifer-o-connell-we-ve-had-enough-of-being-micro-managed-by-nphet-1.4726962

The unvaccinated or partially vaccinated 11 per cent of the population account for more than one in three of those in hospital (some are unknown) and more than half of those in ICU

It's not much data but the trends are obvious

33/11 = 3
66/89 = 0.74

3/0.74= 4.04

So unvaccinated approx 4 times more likely to end up in hospital

ICU :

50/11 = 4.55
50/89 = 0.56

4.55/0.56 = 8.125 so over 8 times more likely to end up in ICU

Plus more likely to be seriously ill.
If that difference is 4 times you get 32 times more likely to die

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-death-risk-32-times-higher-for-the-unvaccinated-figures-suggest-12457074
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on November 13, 2021, 10:08:01 AM
For the sanity of the country they should stop publishing positive cases. People get so caught up in the positive cases and automatically assume its a problem. I would say if we tested every person who had flu symptoms at this time of year to the extent we do for Covid then people would say we have a flu pandemic. we vaccinate for flu we now vaccinate for Covid, the case numbers really shouldn't be relevant if we are doing the vaccine roll out properly, if people get their boosters then really there's not a massive issue. if you're double jabbed within 6 months then the likelihood is covid will not have a big effect on you, there will always be exceptions to the rule unfortunately. it really is as simple as get jabbed and stop reading about case numbers, your life will be much much better.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 13, 2021, 10:17:04 AM
im sure rolling out vaxx passports too barber shops will be a great success and stop covid in its track  since it was a great success for pubs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on November 13, 2021, 10:23:02 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on November 13, 2021, 10:08:01 AM
For the sanity of the country they should stop publishing positive cases. People get so caught up in the positive cases and automatically assume its a problem. I would say if we tested every person who had flu symptoms at this time of year to the extent we do for Covid then people would say we have a flu pandemic. we vaccinate for flu we now vaccinate for Covid, the case numbers really shouldn't be relevant if we are doing the vaccine roll out properly, if people get their boosters then really there's not a massive issue. if you're double jabbed within 6 months then the likelihood is covid will not have a big effect on you, there will always be exceptions to the rule unfortunately. it really is as simple as get jabbed and stop reading about case numbers, your life will be much much better.
I reckon not reporting deaths is a huge mistake in the ROI though, (74 in past week according to covid tracker app), if that's not the best advert for  getting vaxxed & just having a bit of cop on I dunno what could be.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2021, 10:23:25 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on November 13, 2021, 10:08:01 AM
For the sanity of the country they should stop publishing positive cases. People get so caught up in the positive cases and automatically assume its a problem. I would say if we tested every person who had flu symptoms at this time of year to the extent we do for Covid then people would say we have a flu pandemic. we vaccinate for flu we now vaccinate for Covid, the case numbers really shouldn't be relevant if we are doing the vaccine roll out properly, if people get their boosters then really there's not a massive issue. if you're double jabbed within 6 months then the likelihood is covid will not have a big effect on you, there will always be exceptions to the rule unfortunately. it really is as simple as get jabbed and stop reading about case numbers, your life will be much much better.

Getting the booster next week, surgery are running a walkin type session like they did for the flu jab a few weeks previously. I really don't see the issue in not getting it, if not to protect yourself from getting it bad should you catch it but reducing the strain of the virus if passing it on to someone else.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 13, 2021, 10:23:39 AM
 
Ireland could record more than 12,000 Covid-19 cases a day by Christmas, according to a forecast by US academics.

Cases would peak at 12,300 a day in late December before falling again, while a further 2,000 deaths would occur by the start of March, according to the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME), which is based at the University of Washington.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on November 13, 2021, 10:29:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 13, 2021, 10:23:25 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on November 13, 2021, 10:08:01 AM
For the sanity of the country they should stop publishing positive cases. People get so caught up in the positive cases and automatically assume its a problem. I would say if we tested every person who had flu symptoms at this time of year to the extent we do for Covid then people would say we have a flu pandemic. we vaccinate for flu we now vaccinate for Covid, the case numbers really shouldn't be relevant if we are doing the vaccine roll out properly, if people get their boosters then really there's not a massive issue. if you're double jabbed within 6 months then the likelihood is covid will not have a big effect on you, there will always be exceptions to the rule unfortunately. it really is as simple as get jabbed and stop reading about case numbers, your life will be much much better.

Getting the booster next week, surgery are running a walkin type session like they did for the flu jab a few weeks previously. I really don't see the issue in not getting it, if not to protect yourself from getting it bad should you catch it but reducing the strain of the virus if passing it on to someone else.

thats it like, my opinion is get the jab and try get on with life I really dont see the issue with that at all, soon as im able to get the booster il get it. again not just for myself but for my parents and other elderly people I come into contact with, people need to accept Covid is here and we just need to do our best to live with it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 13, 2021, 11:54:57 AM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 09:12:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 08:29:45 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 07:14:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 07:00:29 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 06:30:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 05:38:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2021, 05:31:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2021, 05:27:08 PM
"Its not a vaccine"??? :o  ;D

Tell us more Gmac.
the definition changed recently I wonder why , semantics I'm sure

Well, you appear to know, so why don't you explain it all to us?
from immunity to (protection)

Took a minute to figure out you were on about, and, surprise, looks like more right wing bullshit, this time emanating from Thomas Massie of Kansas. I would call him the village idiot of The House, but there's too much competition to just single him out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/09/vaccine-skeptics-claim-new-cdc-gotcha-moment-they-havent-got-much/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/09/vaccine-skeptics-claim-new-cdc-gotcha-moment-they-havent-got-much/)

Anyway, I don't ever remember immunity meaning anything other than protection against a disease. Which is what a vaccine offers. And there is simply no one who has been paying attention, for example, to flu vaccines over the past 20 years who didn't know that getting one absolutely doesn't mean you will be 100% certain not to get the flu. Similarly, I had to get a tetanus booster back in the summer when I cut myself on a rusty screw while working on my deck. Probably would have been ok, but it had been a while since my last one so I couldn't be sure I'd be protected i.e. immune.
again with the right wing bs the cdc changed their definition.
Tetanus shot one every 10/15
You will be leaking soon the amount of injections your getting.

So what if they changed the words of the definition? Maybe they felt it needed to be updated on account of all the bullshit from the anti-vaxxers.

The real world meaning, the real application, hasn't changed a bit.

Immune still means protected. The covid vaccine is still a vaccine.

What trivial piece of nonsense will you seize upon next?

Its hard to keep up with you on your normal political fails, but if I remember correctly you were previously bullshitting about the CDC supposedly claiming PCR tests couldn't distinguish between covid and flu, as well as claiming that the inventor of the PCR test saying that they couldn't detect covid or any other virus.
an Irish rugby player tested positive for covid  this morning this afternoon he's negative , twice
What the guy who developed them said was you could make a pcr test pick up the most minuscule amount of the virus and make the test positive , be like having a beer yesterday and having a tiny amount of alcohol in your system today but you are not positive for drunk driving because it's a tiny amount and there's a threshold to be over,  in pcr tests there isn't.

So now you've changed the story from "he said it couldn't pick up ANY virus, including Covid" (he was dead before covid as it happens) to "it can pick up such minuscule amounts of virus that it's worthless"? Eventually some of that shit might stick to the wall for you.

BTW there are thresholds with PCR tests, based on the number of cycles they go through to amplify the genetic material. It's a matter of where you want to set them, depending on what the lab is trying to determine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 13, 2021, 12:31:20 PM
Quote from: themac_23 on November 13, 2021, 10:08:01 AM
For the sanity of the country they should stop publishing positive cases. People get so caught up in the positive cases and automatically assume its a problem. I would say if we tested every person who had flu symptoms at this time of year to the extent we do for Covid then people would say we have a flu pandemic. we vaccinate for flu we now vaccinate for Covid, the case numbers really shouldn't be relevant if we are doing the vaccine roll out properly, if people get their boosters then really there's not a massive issue. if you're double jabbed within 6 months then the likelihood is covid will not have a big effect on you, there will always be exceptions to the rule unfortunately. it really is as simple as get jabbed and stop reading about case numbers, your life will be much much better.

Very good post. It's going to be with us for a long, long time. I'm neither a covid denier nor anti-vax, but people have to get on with their lives at some point without restrictions coming and going.

Yes, isolate if you get the damn thing, but let others get on with life is my viewpoint at this time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 13, 2021, 02:09:27 PM
Are the anti vax, Covid denying lunatic fringe protesting outside secondary schools in other parts of the country or is it just Derry City ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on November 13, 2021, 02:21:06 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on November 13, 2021, 02:09:27 PM
Are the anti vax, Covid denying lunatic fringe protesting outside secondary schools in other parts of the country or is it just Derry City ?
Better not be outside my kids school! Where did you see that Jog?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 13, 2021, 02:35:14 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on November 13, 2021, 02:21:06 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on November 13, 2021, 02:09:27 PM
Are the anti vax, Covid denying lunatic fringe protesting outside secondary schools in other parts of the country or is it just Derry City ?
Better not be outside my kids school! Where did you see that Jog?

The College
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RealSpiritof98 on November 14, 2021, 02:14:51 AM
Some right wing lunatics about here, please stop watching Rte or BBC, you are being fed a shot load of bullshit, how can you not see this 19months in. It just so happens the same covid players ala gates are now the climate warriors.... Come on please wake thenfuck up. Please do some research this plan is in black and white
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 14, 2021, 03:37:41 AM
Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on November 14, 2021, 02:14:51 AM
Some right wing lunatics about here, please stop watching Rte or BBC, you are being fed a shot load of bullshit, how can you not see this 19months in. It just so happens the same covid players ala gates are now the climate warriors.... Come on please wake thenfuck up. Please do some research this plan is in black and white

Some right wing lunatics about here. That's true anyway.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 14, 2021, 04:05:36 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on November 13, 2021, 02:09:27 PM
Are the anti vax, Covid denying lunatic fringe protesting outside secondary schools in other parts of the country or is it just Derry City ?

they been doing it since early this year i think  some even served papers to school heads.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2021, 09:19:29 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 14, 2021, 03:37:41 AM
Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on November 14, 2021, 02:14:51 AM
Some right wing lunatics about here, please stop watching Rte or BBC, you are being fed a shot load of bullshit, how can you not see this 19months in. It just so happens the same covid players ala gates are now the climate warriors.... Come on please wake thenfuck up. Please do some research this plan is in black and white

Some right wing lunatics about here. That's true anyway.

I'm confused about the plan the governments are trying to do, is it destroying the economy to give big pharma money for vaccines? Help me out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 14, 2021, 10:30:57 AM
It's the great reset. Have you not heard  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 14, 2021, 10:38:23 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 14, 2021, 04:05:36 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on November 13, 2021, 02:09:27 PM
Are the anti vax, Covid denying lunatic fringe protesting outside secondary schools in other parts of the country or is it just Derry City ?

they been doing it since early this year i think  some even served papers to school heads.

Can school principles not be issued with cattle prods?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 14, 2021, 10:51:53 AM
A tanker of slurry.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 14, 2021, 12:39:03 PM
How do these protestors get the time to protest at schools during working hours?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on November 14, 2021, 02:37:58 PM
They invaded a secondary school in east Tyrone recently shouting and gulping at anyone they saw with a mask on. Last words as they departed were " We ll be back !"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 14, 2021, 02:51:07 PM
it says on irish times or somewhere cahill and mccloskey have  joined forces and  issue notices to politicians
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 14, 2021, 04:00:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2021, 09:19:29 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 14, 2021, 03:37:41 AM
Quote from: RealSpiritof98 on November 14, 2021, 02:14:51 AM
Some right wing lunatics about here, please stop watching Rte or BBC, you are being fed a shot load of bullshit, how can you not see this 19months in. It just so happens the same covid players ala gates are now the climate warriors.... Come on please wake thenfuck up. Please do some research this plan is in black and white

Some right wing lunatics about here. That's true anyway.

I'm confused about the plan the governments are trying to do, is it destroying the economy to give big pharma money for vaccines? Help me out

All the governments around the world who can't agree on anything else have got together on this and agreed that big pharmaceutical companies aren't making enough money so they've invented a virus which also wrecks all economies. It's called the big reset or something like that, where a lot of money has been taken out of the economy to be given to  big pharma. Makes a lot of sense to some people apparently.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 14, 2021, 04:39:47 PM
i have heard the italian guy in letterkenny was a freeman of the land person
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 14, 2021, 05:00:34 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 14, 2021, 02:51:07 PM
it says on irish times or somewhere cahill and mccloskey have  joined forces and  issue notices to politicians

McCloskey has been hailing Cahill as the country's guiding star for about 18 months. Wiser sectioned. McCloskey's husband went missing about 6 months into Lockdown. Was found OK, just needed his head showered
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 14, 2021, 07:30:37 PM
irish tds at the rugby game yet they will be preaching people to limit contacts
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on November 14, 2021, 07:39:15 PM
Not good.

https://twitter.com/southernhsct/status/1459943258172317705?s=21
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 14, 2021, 07:42:33 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 14, 2021, 07:30:37 PM
irish tds at the rugby game yet they will be preaching people to limit contacts

Rules don't apply to the gois.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2021, 07:44:39 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 14, 2021, 07:42:33 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 14, 2021, 07:30:37 PM
irish tds at the rugby game yet they will be preaching people to limit contacts

Rules don't apply to the gois.
Is there a rule stopping the TD's going?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 14, 2021, 09:06:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2021, 07:44:39 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 14, 2021, 07:42:33 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 14, 2021, 07:30:37 PM
irish tds at the rugby game yet they will be preaching people to limit contacts

Rules don't apply to the gois.
Is there a rule stopping the TD's going?

It's part of the big reset plan. TDs aren't allowed to go to rugby games.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2021, 09:16:52 PM
They have to start mapping where infections occur.
I wonder how many match patrons will end up in hospital.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2021, 09:27:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2021, 09:16:52 PM
They have to start mapping where infections occur.
I wonder how many match patrons will end up in hospital.

Hopefully they are doubled jabbed and not foolish enough to have underlying conditions and subject themselves to crowded environments. Would be plain dumb to do that to yourself and family
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2021, 09:29:01 PM
Double jabbing provides no protection against transmission.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2021, 09:34:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2021, 09:29:01 PM
Double jabbing provides no protection against transmission.

It helps with hospitalisation though and transferring a stronger strain apparently. But my other point stands, if you have underlying conditions why would you put yourself in that position?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 14, 2021, 09:38:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2021, 09:34:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2021, 09:29:01 PM
Double jabbing provides no protection against transmission.

It helps with hospitalisation though and transferring a stronger strain apparently. But my other point stands, if you have underlying conditions why would you put yourself in that position?
Vaccination helps with underlying conditions. The unvaccinated shouldn't be going to matches
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2021, 09:41:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2021, 09:38:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2021, 09:34:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2021, 09:29:01 PM
Double jabbing provides no protection against transmission.

It helps with hospitalisation though and transferring a stronger strain apparently. But my other point stands, if you have underlying conditions why would you put yourself in that position?
Vaccination helps with underlying conditions. The unvaccinated shouldn't be going to matches

Well if you value your life you should stay away unfortunately..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 14, 2021, 09:58:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2021, 09:29:01 PM
Double jabbing provides no protection against transmission.

Real-world data out of Ontario, Canada regarding vaccine effectiveness (reduction associated with full vaccination) shows:

•Against Infection: 82.5%
•Against Hospitalization: 91.8%
•Against ICU Admission: 97.2%

Delta is currently the most prevalent variant in Ontario.

Real-world data out of King County, WA (which includes Seattle) confirms vaccinated individuals are significantly better protected from illness, hospitalization, AND death due to COVID-19 compared to unvaccinated individuals, even as the Delta variant surges through the state.

The CDC is posting national data on vaccination status for hospitalization and death due to COVID-19 and it IS stratified by age. In August unvaccinated individuals were:
•6X more likely to test positive for COVID-19
•11X more likely to die of COVID-19 related illness

You can find this information here: covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra... (you will need to switch views to see cases vs. deaths). Even in the face of Delta, these vaccines are indeed effective against preventing symptomatic infection, severe disease, hospitalization AND death due to COVID-19.

Published in NEJM. Peer-reviewed. Sound methodology. Delta outbreak in a California detention center (close quartera). Moderna's vaccine was found to be 84% effective against symptomatic infection. NO hospitalizations among fully vaccinated individuals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 14, 2021, 10:51:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2021, 09:41:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2021, 09:38:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2021, 09:34:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2021, 09:29:01 PM
Double jabbing provides no protection against transmission.

It helps with hospitalisation though and transferring a stronger strain apparently. But my other point stands, if you have underlying conditions why would you put yourself in that position?
Vaccination helps with underlying conditions. The unvaccinated shouldn't be going to matches

Well if you value your life you should stay away unfortunately..
Outdoor matches are generally fine, it's what those people do after a match as Indoor activities was and remains the main spreader of this virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2021, 11:59:43 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 14, 2021, 10:51:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2021, 09:41:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2021, 09:38:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2021, 09:34:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2021, 09:29:01 PM
Double jabbing provides no protection against transmission.

It helps with hospitalisation though and transferring a stronger strain apparently. But my other point stands, if you have underlying conditions why would you put yourself in that position?
Vaccination helps with underlying conditions. The unvaccinated shouldn't be going to matches

Well if you value your life you should stay away unfortunately..
Outdoor matches are generally fine, it's what those people do after a match as Indoor activities was and remains the main spreader of this virus.

Again it's not rocket science, go if you're healthy and use precautions follow the guidelines, if you're not jabbed and have health conditions you shouldn't go.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 05:51:39 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1113/1259673-covid-hse/
In a video posted on Twitter, Dr Tony Holohan, said the current level of transmission in Ireland was one of the highest over "the entire course of the pandemic".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 15, 2021, 06:18:16 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2021, 09:38:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2021, 09:34:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2021, 09:29:01 PM
Double jabbing provides no protection against transmission.

It helps with hospitalisation though and transferring a stronger strain apparently. But my other point stands, if you have underlying conditions why would you put yourself in that position?
Vaccination helps with underlying conditions. The unvaccinated shouldn't be going to matches

Vaccinated and unvaccinated should not be going to matches
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2021, 07:31:38 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 15, 2021, 06:18:16 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2021, 09:38:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2021, 09:34:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2021, 09:29:01 PM
Double jabbing provides no protection against transmission.

It helps with hospitalisation though and transferring a stronger strain apparently. But my other point stands, if you have underlying conditions why would you put yourself in that position?
Vaccination helps with underlying conditions. The unvaccinated shouldn't be going to matches

Vaccinated and unvaccinated should not be going to matches

Go to the games but be sensible, if you're hugging people then that's stupid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 08:11:41 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1113/1259673-covid-hse/

Keep your contacts low and avoid crowds; Wear a mask correctly; Meet outside if possible; Avoid poorly ventilated indoor spaces; Practice good hand and respiratory hygiene.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on November 15, 2021, 12:29:23 PM
SF Minister Deirdre Hargey also made the trip to the game from the occupied 6 counties
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 15, 2021, 03:24:04 PM
A member of the National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) has warned that what happens next regarding restrictions and lockdowns in Ireland is up to the public and their individual actions.

Dr Colm Henry, a member of Nphet and the HSE's chief clinical officer, said the public are the country's primary line of defence against Covid-19 and what happens next is due to their actions.

Nobody wants to go back to restrictions and lockdown, he told Newstalk Breakfast.

People needed to reduce the number of contacts they have, he said, adding that "you don't have to go out every night of the week".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 15, 2021, 03:14:56 PM
Ireland one of the highest jabbed countries in the Europe.

November 12th 2020 there were 385 covid cases without vaccines

November 12th 2021 there are 5,483 covid cases with vaccines.
The difference is Delta. It's 50% more infectious than the previous variant.
Without the vaccine hospitals wouldn't be functioning.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 15, 2021, 03:34:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 15, 2021, 03:14:56 PM
Ireland one of the highest jabbed countries in the Europe.

November 12th 2020 there were 385 covid cases without vaccines

November 12th 2021 there are 5,483 covid cases with vaccines.
The difference is Delta. It's 50% more infectious than the previous variant.
Without the vaccine hospitals wouldn't be functioning.

What's the rate of vaccinated v unvaccinated getting tested?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 15, 2021, 03:36:26 PM
Covid-19 booster programme 'unlikely' to curb the virus - Professor Sam McConkey
Health specialist also warns antigen tests are too expensive here
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 03:56:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 15, 2021, 03:34:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 15, 2021, 03:14:56 PM
Ireland one of the highest jabbed countries in the Europe.

November 12th 2020 there were 385 covid cases without vaccines

November 12th 2021 there are 5,483 covid cases with vaccines.
The difference is Delta. It's 50% more infectious than the previous variant.
Without the vaccine hospitals wouldn't be functioning.

What's the rate of vaccinated v unvaccinated getting tested?
I haven't seen any stats
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 15, 2021, 03:57:11 PM
johnson now moving the goalposts double jabbed not to classed as vaxxed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 04:06:51 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1115/1260001-coronavirus-ireland/
Dr O'Loughlin said it is particularly hard to keep going when there is a "lack of visibility of how this is going to turn around".
He said previous lockdowns had a positive impact on reducing case numbers, but there is no desire to re-introduce lockdowns or restrictions now.
"Without that it's not clear to us working on the frontline what the trigger event will be to turn things around to stop this 3000-4000 cases per day...they're the ICU patients of two weeks time, some of those patients."
He said he is not advocating for a lockdown, but warned that society will be forced into it if things are not turned around.
He also said there is an almost equal number of unvaccinated people and vaccinated vulnerable people in ICU.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 15, 2021, 04:13:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 03:56:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 15, 2021, 03:34:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 15, 2021, 03:14:56 PM
Ireland one of the highest jabbed countries in the Europe.

November 12th 2020 there were 385 covid cases without vaccines

November 12th 2021 there are 5,483 covid cases with vaccines.
The difference is Delta. It's 50% more infectious than the previous variant.
Without the vaccine hospitals wouldn't be functioning.

What's the rate of vaccinated v unvaccinated getting tested?
I haven't seen any stats

Just wondering are unvaccinated people less likely to get tested?

What are the proportions of positive tests among the two groups?

These 5483 people - are they all people with symptoms coming up with positive tests? Or a lot of people who get tested regularly, regardless of symptoms (like myself). People getting tested under work medical surveillance programmes?

Are vaccinated people completely throwing caution to the wind and exposing themselves to high risk of transmission?

Because those numbers are far out of proportion to even a 1:1 rate among vaccinated and unvaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on November 15, 2021, 04:16:23 PM
My folks (70s) got their boosters at the weekend, so that's a weight off - hopefully it's getting well distributed among that group and will work it's way down.

I'm hearing of Christmas office parties in Dublin being cancelled. Only a small % at this stage, but no harm to keep big indoor gatherings down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 15, 2021, 04:40:12 PM
looks like they going to lock down the unvaccinated they are planting  the seeds
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 15, 2021, 05:00:31 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 15, 2021, 03:57:11 PM
johnson now moving the goalposts double jabbed not to classed as vaxxed

That could be because *checks notes*, immunity wanes as it does with all vaccines.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 15, 2021, 05:44:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 15, 2021, 05:00:31 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 15, 2021, 03:57:11 PM
johnson now moving the goalposts double jabbed not to classed as vaxxed

That could be because *checks notes*, immunity wanes as it does with all vaccines.

Immunity wanes from infection also. Being infected way back last April will be of limited benefit now, unless you were vaccinated in the meantime.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2021, 06:41:49 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 15, 2021, 06:16:49 PM
Swan now wanting covid passwords, followed by Eastwood. Seriously are these people stupid? Waterford the most vaccinated place in Ireland with the highest covid rate. The south introduced covid passports, it has really worked, hasn't it? Answers on a post stamp ffs.

What way do the passwords work? 8 words and at least one caps ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on November 15, 2021, 06:48:34 PM
It's great to have the unvaxxed to blame? They provide a great Red Herring excuse for the massive failure of the Vaccine(s).

Remember the Vaccine efficiency promises and the Scientific Stats back in the beginning of the year?

What were they again? What is the latest figure on Efficiency?

They have fairly crumbled?

The unvaxxed will provide a sort of side-show and keep the Boosters rolling with the promise of Luke O'Neill that they should last 3 years.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2021, 06:53:31 PM
What do you feel we should do though? Not get vaccinated and just carry on with washing our hands 2 metre rule and  lockup the vulnerable?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 15, 2021, 06:53:56 PM
The vaccine is not a massive failure.

I don't buy into the blame unvaxxed for everything but the vaccine is not a massive failure. If it was then how did we get normality at all? I was in the Avila with 50k people on Thursday. Without the vaccine that would not have happened.

It is not as silver a bullet as e had hoped but mutations and other factors come into that.

If you think it is a massive failure then I would suggest you need to take a look at your expectations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 07:01:34 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 15, 2021, 06:48:34 PM
It's great to have the unvaxxed to blame? They provide a great Red Herring excuse for the massive failure of the Vaccine(s).

Remember the Vaccine efficiency promises and the Scientific Stats back in the beginning of the year?

What were they again? What is the latest figure on Efficiency?

They have fairly crumbled?

The unvaxxed will provide a sort of side-show and keep the Boosters rolling with the promise of Luke O'Neill that they should last 3 years.
Delta came later and changed the game.
Vaccination is still better.
Delta means non vaccination is more dangerous.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 07:13:28 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-one-in-10-people-infected-since-pandemic-began-as-4-570-new-cases-reported-1.4729093 

 

A further 4,570 cases of Covid-19 have been reported in the State, bringing the total number of people infected in the Republic since the pandemic began to over 500,000 - or one in 10 people in the State.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 07:22:57 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 15, 2021, 06:53:56 PM
The vaccine is not a massive failure.

I don't buy into the blame unvaxxed for everything but the vaccine is not a massive failure. If it was then how did we get normality at all? I was in the Avila with 50k people on Thursday. Without the vaccine that would not have happened.

It is not as silver a bullet as e had hoped but mutations and other factors come into that.

If you think it is a massive failure then I would suggest you need to take a look at your expectations.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-one-in-10-people-infected-since-pandemic-began-as-4-570-new-cases-reported-1.4729093

Dr O'Loughlin, who is a specialist in the Mater hospital and the president of the Intensive Care Society of Ireland, on Monday said the vaccinations were tested on people who had the original strain of the disease not the Delta variant.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 15, 2021, 07:25:07 PM
vaxx passports made people think they could galivant all over the country look at the netherlands had vaxx passports now in lockdown think i seen belgiums most vaccinated region has highest case numbers too like waterford
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on November 15, 2021, 07:26:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 07:13:28 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-one-in-10-people-infected-since-pandemic-began-as-4-570-new-cases-reported-1.4729093 

 

A further 4,570 cases of Covid-19 have been reported in the State, bringing the total number of people infected in the Republic since the pandemic began to over 500,000 - or one in 10 people in the State.

That's 500,000 out of 8,523,650 people tested since the virus began, be interesting to see the stats on how many was infected twice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: StPatsAbu on November 15, 2021, 07:31:59 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 15, 2021, 07:25:07 PM
vaxx passports made people think they could galivant all over the country look at the netherlands had vaxx passports now in lockdown think i seen belgiums most vaccinated region has highest case numbers too like waterford

They'd have been better off sterilising the population of Waterford than wasting vaccines on them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 15, 2021, 08:43:57 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 15, 2021, 08:34:08 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 15, 2021, 06:48:34 PM
It's great to have the unvaxxed to blame? They provide a great Red Herring excuse for the massive failure of the Vaccine(s).

Remember the Vaccine efficiency promises and the Scientific Stats back in the beginning of the year?

What were they again? What is the latest figure on Efficiency?

They have fairly crumbled?

The unvaxxed will provide a sort of side-show and keep the Boosters rolling with the promise of Luke O'Neill that they should last 3 years.

Passports in other words are pointless. Lots of evidence yet these people proposing it. There are lots of sheep.

Modelling has shown that vaccine passports will reduce transmission by 30% plus. That will make a massive difference in terms of reducing pressure on hospitals. Nobody is being forced to get vaccinated but people who choose that option shouldn't be putting other people in danger by going into crowds. It's urgent that we do something quickly, the health service is crying out for it. It's down to 2 choices- vaccine passports or complete lockdown again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 15, 2021, 09:14:30 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 15, 2021, 08:34:08 PM
Passports in other words are pointless. Lots of evidence yet these people proposing it. There are lots of sheep.

OK then, you tell us what should be done to moderate demand on the health services. We await with interest some new ideas.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 09:19:35 PM
I think it's basic enough. Reduce contact.
Handwashing. Masks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2021, 09:27:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 09:19:35 PM
I think it's basic enough. Reduce contact.
Handwashing. Masks

Lock up the vulnerable? Those with underlying conditions...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 09:37:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2021, 09:27:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 09:19:35 PM
I think it's basic enough. Reduce contact.
Handwashing. Masks

Lock up the vulnerable? Those with underlying conditions...
Most of the vaccinated in ICU are vulnerable/ with preexisting conditions
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 15, 2021, 10:34:39 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 15, 2021, 09:37:57 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 15, 2021, 08:43:57 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 15, 2021, 08:34:08 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 15, 2021, 06:48:34 PM
It's great to have the unvaxxed to blame? They provide a great Red Herring excuse for the massive failure of the Vaccine(s).

Remember the Vaccine efficiency promises and the Scientific Stats back in the beginning of the year?

What were they again? What is the latest figure on Efficiency?

They have fairly crumbled?

The unvaxxed will provide a sort of side-show and keep the Boosters rolling with the promise of Luke O'Neill that they should last 3 years.

Passports in other words are pointless. Lots of evidence yet these people proposing it. There are lots of sheep.

Modelling has shown that vaccine passports will reduce transmission by 30% plus. That will make a massive difference in terms of reducing pressure on hospitals. Nobody is being forced to get vaccinated but people who choose that option shouldn't be putting other people in danger by going into crowds. It's urgent that we do something quickly, the health service is crying out for it. It's down to 2 choices- vaccine passports or complete lockdown again.

Modelling? You mean guessing, as that is what modelling is. Waterford is real life, factual, undeniable.  Belgium the same. Are you that stupid, if your vaccinated you spread it to. (And to clear this is not a discussion about vaccination as we all seem to agree its protects u from potentially ending up in ICU) Waterford Waterford Waterford. Engage your brain. As the poster said above, reduce your  contact, wash or sanitise your hands etc. Thats the best approach not unfounded passports that evidence shows is irrelevant ffs

Modelling isn't guessing. Most modelling done during the pandemic has been pretty accurate, it's just that governments haven't acted quickly enough. Vaccinated people can spread the virus but they are contagious for way less time as they get rid of the virus much more quickly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 16, 2021, 06:28:00 AM
i said myself vaxx passports will just give people a false sense of security
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2021, 06:53:14 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 16, 2021, 06:28:00 AM
i said myself vaxx passports will just give people a false sense of security
Not if they follow the guidelines


https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1113/1259673-covid-hse/

Keep your contacts low and avoid crowds; Wear a mask correctly; Meet outside if possible; Avoid poorly ventilated indoor spaces; Practice good hand and respiratory hygiene.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2021, 07:28:34 AM
My friends son had to go back into hospital needed oxygen to survive, was telling his mum the cubicles around him were full of people struggling to breathe, this person is mid 30's not vaccinated.

Take a chance lads
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on November 16, 2021, 09:28:59 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 16, 2021, 09:25:18 AM
Quote from: lenny on November 15, 2021, 10:34:39 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 15, 2021, 09:37:57 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 15, 2021, 08:43:57 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 15, 2021, 08:34:08 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 15, 2021, 06:48:34 PM
It's great to have the unvaxxed to blame? They provide a great Red Herring excuse for the massive failure of the Vaccine(s).

Remember the Vaccine efficiency promises and the Scientific Stats back in the beginning of the year?

What were they again? What is the latest figure on Efficiency?

They have fairly crumbled?

The unvaxxed will provide a sort of side-show and keep the Boosters rolling with the promise of Luke O'Neill that they should last 3 years.

Passports in other words are pointless. Lots of evidence yet these people proposing it. There are lots of sheep.

Modelling has shown that vaccine passports will reduce transmission by 30% plus. That will make a massive difference in terms of reducing pressure on hospitals. Nobody is being forced to get vaccinated but people who choose that option shouldn't be putting other people in danger by going into crowds. It's urgent that we do something quickly, the health service is crying out for it. It's down to 2 choices- vaccine passports or complete lockdown again.

Modelling? You mean guessing, as that is what modelling is. Waterford is real life, factual, undeniable.  Belgium the same. Are you that stupid, if your vaccinated you spread it to. (And to clear this is not a discussion about vaccination as we all seem to agree its protects u from potentially ending up in ICU) Waterford Waterford Waterford. Engage your brain. As the poster said above, reduce your  contact, wash or sanitise your hands etc. Thats the best approach not unfounded passports that evidence shows is irrelevant ffs

Modelling isn't guessing. Most modelling done during the pandemic has been pretty accurate, it's just that governments haven't acted quickly enough. Vaccinated people can spread the virus but they are contagious for way less time as they get rid of the virus much more quickly.

Modelling predicted that in the north approximately 15,000 would die. Everyone shit the togs and went for cover when it was nothing remotely close to it.
I have to assume you are on the wind up with that argument.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2021, 09:29:38 AM
Modelling has improved since the start of the pandemic when there was no testing. Every new variant does have different parameters,  however. This is relevant for vaccines which were not tested on Delta.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 16, 2021, 09:42:13 AM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 16, 2021, 09:28:59 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 16, 2021, 09:25:18 AM
Quote from: lenny on November 15, 2021, 10:34:39 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 15, 2021, 09:37:57 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 15, 2021, 08:43:57 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 15, 2021, 08:34:08 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 15, 2021, 06:48:34 PM
It's great to have the unvaxxed to blame? They provide a great Red Herring excuse for the massive failure of the Vaccine(s).

Remember the Vaccine efficiency promises and the Scientific Stats back in the beginning of the year?

What were they again? What is the latest figure on Efficiency?

They have fairly crumbled?

The unvaxxed will provide a sort of side-show and keep the Boosters rolling with the promise of Luke O'Neill that they should last 3 years.

Passports in other words are pointless. Lots of evidence yet these people proposing it. There are lots of sheep.

Modelling has shown that vaccine passports will reduce transmission by 30% plus. That will make a massive difference in terms of reducing pressure on hospitals. Nobody is being forced to get vaccinated but people who choose that option shouldn't be putting other people in danger by going into crowds. It's urgent that we do something quickly, the health service is crying out for it. It's down to 2 choices- vaccine passports or complete lockdown again.

Modelling? You mean guessing, as that is what modelling is. Waterford is real life, factual, undeniable.  Belgium the same. Are you that stupid, if your vaccinated you spread it to. (And to clear this is not a discussion about vaccination as we all seem to agree its protects u from potentially ending up in ICU) Waterford Waterford Waterford. Engage your brain. As the poster said above, reduce your  contact, wash or sanitise your hands etc. Thats the best approach not unfounded passports that evidence shows is irrelevant ffs

Modelling isn't guessing. Most modelling done during the pandemic has been pretty accurate, it's just that governments haven't acted quickly enough. Vaccinated people can spread the virus but they are contagious for way less time as they get rid of the virus much more quickly.

Modelling predicted that in the north approximately 15,000 would die. Everyone shit the togs and went for cover when it was nothing remotely close to it.
I have to assume you are on the wind up with that argument.

Shows the disingenuous level of discussion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 16, 2021, 01:51:35 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1116/1260207-covid-live-updates-government/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1116/1260207-covid-live-updates-government/)

Here we go again...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on November 16, 2021, 02:08:44 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2021, 01:51:35 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1116/1260207-covid-live-updates-government/ (https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1116/1260207-covid-live-updates-government/)

Here we go again...

Hospitals coming under pressure forcing this. We can argue about resources and HSE policies all we want but there is a limited short term fix there bar private sector.

Staff have been moved to vaccines and testing centres, lots of staff close contacts and testing positive. ICU beds filling up all to quick.

The boaster programme now seems to be a re-action rather than something that they should have been getting a head of it. Been told that vast majority of over 70s done and outside this under 50s are only falling due now - outside 6 months since second jab.

Community transmission and cases lot higher than figures. Anyone going to hospital even for day procedures are tested in advance and these are turning up lots of positives with no symptoms, which is good in one way but bad in that contract tracing and community transmission is impossible to trace now, people just don't know where's its coming from and their contacts are big.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 16, 2021, 03:04:36 PM
so only the vaccinated are suppose to be in bars but they are closing them early but what the so called great passports
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 16, 2021, 03:08:58 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 16, 2021, 03:04:36 PM
so only the vaccinated are suppose to be in bars but they are closing them early but what the so called great passports

Vaccination reduces transmission. Nobody ever claimed it eliminates it.

What would you have the government do given the current circumstances?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 16, 2021, 03:21:27 PM
close pubs altogether whats 2 hours going to do
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 16, 2021, 03:25:05 PM
looks like they might have just killed off nightclubs unless they throw them a few crumbs again to keep them quiet
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: naka on November 16, 2021, 03:30:43 PM
Strange situation
Must people vaccinated but things heading south rapidly
Daughters Christmas party cancelled
Back to working at home
Distraught is an understatement for her, she like many her age have really suffered during the lockdowns for the greater good but she sees no upside
Really worried that whilst government working hard to keep hospitals going
There is a different issue with kids / mental health etc
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 16, 2021, 03:42:11 PM
Quote from: naka on November 16, 2021, 03:30:43 PM
Strange situation
Must people vaccinated but things heading south rapidly
Daughters Christmas party cancelled
Back to working at home
Distraught is an understatement for her, she like many her age have really suffered during the lockdowns for the greater good but she sees no upside
Really worried that whilst government working hard to keep hospitals going
There is a different issue with kids / mental health etc

Public health is set up in such a way that people with immediate, acute health needs go to the front of the queue. People with chronic illnesses and chronic pain are often shifted onto waiting lists and almost forgotten about. That's the biggest problem with Covid, people are presenting to hospitals with severe illness, they need immediate care to save their lives and it means that other chronic patients are getting pushed down the queue, even cancer patients. That's the main reason that it's extremely selfish of people not to get the vaccine. The unvaccinated who require hospital treatment also require 3 times the resources of a non Covid patient further stretching resources. Everyone knows that mental health is an issue but it's not an immediate, acute problem most of the time and that's why it gets pushed down the queue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2021, 03:44:29 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 16, 2021, 03:25:05 PM
looks like they might have just killed off nightclubs unless they throw them a few crumbs again to keep them quiet

The buses will be heading over the border again, plenty of revenue and cases to be had
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on November 16, 2021, 03:53:02 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 16, 2021, 03:42:11 PM
Quote from: naka on November 16, 2021, 03:30:43 PM
Strange situation
Must people vaccinated but things heading south rapidly
Daughters Christmas party cancelled
Back to working at home
Distraught is an understatement for her, she like many her age have really suffered during the lockdowns for the greater good but she sees no upside
Really worried that whilst government working hard to keep hospitals going
There is a different issue with kids / mental health etc


Public health is set up in such a way that people with immediate, acute health needs go to the front of the queue. People with chronic illnesses and chronic pain are often shifted onto waiting lists and almost forgotten about. That's the biggest problem with Covid, people are presenting to hospitals with severe illness, they need immediate care to save their lives and it means that other chronic patients are getting pushed down the queue, even cancer patients. That's the main reason that it's extremely selfish of people not to get the vaccine. The unvaccinated who require hospital treatment also require 3 times the resources of a non Covid patient further stretching resources. Everyone knows that mental health is an issue but it's not an immediate, acute problem most of the time and that's why it gets pushed down the queue.

Mental health does not seem to be a focus of the politicans as it cannot be quantified and therefore does not end up as the lead story or headline.
There are 614 people in hospital with covid related illness.
This represents 0.00001% of 5 Million.
How many had underlying conditions ?
I sincerely hope they all recover, but preparing to shut down an economy again, will have an immeasurable effect on the hospitality industry now, and for possibly a third summer in 2022 as international travel is booked six months + in advance.
Well Tony must be delighted. Maybe some journalist can ask the Q as to what he has done to increase ICU beds in Ireland.
Oh as an aside forgot to add Ireland has over 92% of adults fully vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 16, 2021, 04:07:26 PM
170 cases from the Elk teenage.

800 isolating!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 16, 2021, 04:09:06 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 16, 2021, 03:21:27 PM
close pubs altogether whats 2 hours going to do
Close pubs Christ the f**king night.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: naka on November 16, 2021, 04:21:05 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 16, 2021, 03:21:27 PM
close pubs altogether whats 2 hours going to do
Pubs/ nite clubs are the scapegoats in this whole saga
And this is from someone who doesn't go to pubs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 16, 2021, 04:25:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 09:37:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2021, 09:27:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 09:19:35 PM
I think it's basic enough. Reduce contact.
Handwashing. Masks

Lock up the vulnerable? Those with underlying conditions...
Most of the vaccinated in ICU are vulnerable/ with preexisting conditions
so the same as last year when everyone was unvaccinated and I'm sure unvaccinated today in hospital will mostly be old or have underlying conditions , there is going to be or already is a pandemic of mental health problems worldwide as well as alcoholism and obesity which will kill a lot more people over time ,we need to look back to the flu pandemic 1918 and see how they came out of that it's the only reference we have for something like we are in now the current approach doesn't seem to be working.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on November 16, 2021, 04:31:29 PM
Downloaded CertcheckNI  onto my phone. It's asking me to scan the 2D Barcode ....

What 2D barcode..... All I have I is my vaccine card and no barcode on it   Can't find any info on where this barcode is to be found .....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 16, 2021, 04:44:23 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on November 16, 2021, 04:31:29 PM
Downloaded CertcheckNI  onto my phone. It's asking me to scan the 2D Barcode ....

What 2D barcode..... All I have I is my vaccine card and no barcode on it   Can't find any info on where this barcode is to be found .....
I think you get it through ni direct website and have to scan it from a different device.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on November 16, 2021, 05:01:25 PM
hardly a big sacrifice to give up the pub for the winter  ::)

avoid crowds, wear masks, get vaccinated

simple really but too thick for some  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 16, 2021, 05:09:06 PM
people to be told to stay home 5 days a week
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on November 16, 2021, 05:22:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2021, 04:07:26 PM
170 cases from the Elk teenage.

800 isolating!

Where ye get this info from dude? (Not that im doubtin ye)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2021, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on November 16, 2021, 05:22:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2021, 04:07:26 PM
170 cases from the Elk teenage.

800 isolating!

Where ye get this info from dude? (Not that im doubtin ye)

Heard that also, but haven't seen it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2021, 05:33:46 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1116/1260207-covid-live-updates-government/
The average age of the 292 fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections who died was 80 and 72.3% had an underlying condition.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on November 16, 2021, 05:41:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2021, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on November 16, 2021, 05:22:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2021, 04:07:26 PM
170 cases from the Elk teenage.

800 isolating!

Where ye get this info from dude? (Not that im doubtin ye)

Heard that also, but haven't seen it

Just saw it on belfast live
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 16, 2021, 05:47:44 PM
did the elk disco require vaxxports
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 16, 2021, 05:50:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 16, 2021, 04:25:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 09:37:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2021, 09:27:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 15, 2021, 09:19:35 PM
I think it's basic enough. Reduce contact.
Handwashing. Masks

Lock up the vulnerable? Those with underlying conditions...
Most of the vaccinated in ICU are vulnerable/ with preexisting conditions
so the same as last year when everyone was unvaccinated and I'm sure unvaccinated today in hospital will mostly be old or have underlying conditions , there is going to be or already is a pandemic of mental health problems worldwide as well as alcoholism and obesity which will kill a lot more people over time ,we need to look back to the flu pandemic 1918 and see how they came out of that it's the only reference we have for something like we are in now the current approach doesn't seem to be working.

They came out of it when less virulent strains emerged after 1/3 of the global population had been infected and 1 in 30 (50 million) killed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 16, 2021, 06:05:33 PM
apparently most vaccinated country in world just cancelled christmas gibraltar
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 16, 2021, 06:07:23 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on November 16, 2021, 05:41:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2021, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on November 16, 2021, 05:22:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2021, 04:07:26 PM
170 cases from the Elk teenage.

800 isolating!

Where ye get this info from dude? (Not that im doubtin ye)

Heard that also, but haven't seen it

Just saw it on belfast live

Belfast Telegraph have it also.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 16, 2021, 06:12:31 PM
Quote from: naka on November 16, 2021, 03:30:43 PM
Strange situation
Must people vaccinated but things heading south rapidly
Daughters Christmas party cancelled
Back to working at home
Distraught is an understatement for her, she like many her age have really suffered during the lockdowns for the greater good but she sees no upside
Really worried that whilst government working hard to keep hospitals going
There is a different issue with kids / mental health etc

You should tell her to wise the fcuk up if she is upset over the Christmas party being cancelled. No company in their right minds should be having Christmas parties in the middle of a pandemic. Ignoring the moral/ethical arguments, it's just plain stupid to potentially put all your employees at risk of contracting covid at the same time  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 16, 2021, 06:14:48 PM
Quote from: naka on November 16, 2021, 03:30:43 PM
Strange situation
Must people vaccinated but things heading south rapidly
Daughters Christmas party cancelled
Back to working at home
Distraught is an understatement for her, she like many her age have really suffered during the lockdowns for the greater good but she sees no upside
Really worried that whilst government working hard to keep hospitals going
There is a different issue with kids / mental health etc

Our nation thanks her for making the ultimate sacrifice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 16, 2021, 06:18:07 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on November 16, 2021, 05:01:25 PM
hardly a big sacrifice to give up the pub for the winter  ::)

avoid crowds, wear masks, get vaccinated

simple really but too thick for some  ;)
Again?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: naka on November 16, 2021, 06:19:10 PM
Just love the sanctimonious crap from some people
I didn't say she was distraught about the party I said it's another kick ,
Another lock down is her fear , no friends, no social life , no interaction
Girls / guys in their 20s told get the jab to help the elderly ( they did )
Don't have a social life ( they didn't  for two years )
Work from home ( they have )

The reality is the government hasn't a clue
If they had balls they should be like Austria lock down the unvaccinated, tell the rest to be careful .
Remember there will be another 50k at aviva on Sunday
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 16, 2021, 06:19:14 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 16, 2021, 06:12:31 PM
Quote from: naka on November 16, 2021, 03:30:43 PM
Strange situation
Must people vaccinated but things heading south rapidly
Daughters Christmas party cancelled
Back to working at home
Distraught is an understatement for her, she like many her age have really suffered during the lockdowns for the greater good but she sees no upside
Really worried that whilst government working hard to keep hospitals going
There is a different issue with kids / mental health etc

You should tell her to wise the fcuk up if she is upset over the Christmas party being cancelled. No company in their right minds should be having Christmas parties in the middle of a pandemic. Ignoring the moral/ethical arguments, it's just plain stupid to potentially put all your employees at risk of contracting covid at the same time  ::)
I think you're the one that needs to wise the f**k up. People have done their bit and got vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 16, 2021, 06:19:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2021, 04:07:26 PM
170 cases from the Elk teenage.

800 isolating!
Nuts testing teenagers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 16, 2021, 06:30:01 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 16, 2021, 06:19:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2021, 04:07:26 PM
170 cases from the Elk teenage.

800 isolating!
Nuts testing teenagers.

I know I'll regret asking.... but why
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on November 16, 2021, 06:38:11 PM
Quote from: naka on November 16, 2021, 06:19:10 PM
Just love the sanctimonious crap from some people
I didn’t say she was distraught about the party I said it’s another kick ,
Another lock down is her fear , no friends, no social life , no interaction
Girls / guys in their 20s told get the jab to help the elderly ( they did )
Don’t have a social life ( they didn’t  for two years )
Work from home ( they have )

The reality is the government hasn’t a clue
If they had balls they should be like Austria lock down the unvaccinated, tell the rest to be careful .
Remember there will be another 50k at aviva on Sunday
The objective of Austria doing that is to get more people vaccinated, currently only 64% fully vaccinated. Here isn't going to get many more vaccinated it has probably exceeded expectations. it's about stepping up on the booster jabs now and getting as many of elderly and those with underlying conditions protected for the winter ahead.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on November 16, 2021, 06:41:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2021, 04:07:26 PM
170 cases from the Elk teenage.

800 isolating!

superspreader event.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 16, 2021, 06:58:05 PM
Israeli cases
Booster jab does drive numbers down, and stuff there is generally open, with some masks.

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/11/15/reader-center/15coronavirus-nl-israel/15coronavirus-nl-israel-superJumbo.png?quality=75&auto=webp)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2021, 07:00:20 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2021, 06:07:23 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on November 16, 2021, 05:41:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 16, 2021, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on November 16, 2021, 05:22:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 16, 2021, 04:07:26 PM
170 cases from the Elk teenage.

800 isolating!

Where ye get this info from dude? (Not that im doubtin ye)

Heard that also, but haven't seen it

Just saw it on belfast live

Belfast Telegraph have it also.
See the fleet foot host of teenagers
That speed with faces wan,
From farmstead and from fisher? s cot
Along the banks of Bann,
They come with Covid in their eyes
Too late too late are they.
For the very old pensioner Roddy McCorley with the preconditions is going to die
near  the bridge of Toome today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 16, 2021, 07:01:20 PM
Quote from: naka on November 16, 2021, 06:19:10 PM
Just love the sanctimonious crap from some people
I didn't say she was distraught about the party I said it's another kick ,
Another lock down is her fear , no friends, no social life , no interaction
Girls / guys in their 20s told get the jab to help the elderly ( they did )
Don't have a social life ( they didn't  for two years )
Work from home ( they have )

The reality is the government hasn't a clue
If they had balls they should be like Austria lock down the unvaccinated, tell the rest to be careful .
Remember there will be another 50k at aviva on Sunday

Haha good one!  ;D

Oh wait, you're serious.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 16, 2021, 07:04:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2021, 06:58:05 PM
Israeli cases
Booster jab does drive numbers down, and stuff there is generally open, with some masks.

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/11/15/reader-center/15coronavirus-nl-israel/15coronavirus-nl-israel-superJumbo.png?quality=75&auto=webp)

And DeBlasio announced today as a parting gift that Times Square is going to be full steam ahead on New Years Eve for anyone with proof of vaccination (or recent negative test for medically exempt).

It'll be outdoors, but I'm not sure I'd want to be stuck cheek-to-jowl with a million other people for hours on end!

But then again, I wouldn't go near Times Square on New Years if you paid me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2021, 07:13:50 PM
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/mapping-coronavirus-in-northern-ireland-covid-cases-by-location-and-the-seven-day-rolling-average-39081262.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 16, 2021, 07:14:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2021, 07:04:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2021, 06:58:05 PM
Israeli cases
Booster jab does drive numbers down, and stuff there is generally open, with some masks.

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/11/15/reader-center/15coronavirus-nl-israel/15coronavirus-nl-israel-superJumbo.png?quality=75&auto=webp)

And DeBlasio announced today as a parting gift that Times Square is going to be full steam ahead on New Years Eve for anyone with proof of vaccination (or recent negative test for medically exempt).

It'll be outdoors, but I'm not sure I'd want to be stuck cheek-to-jowl with a million other people for hours on end!

But then again, I wouldn't go near Times Square on New Years if you paid me.
was fine for blm protests though when there was no vaccination .
weird old virus only comes out in certain settings
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 16, 2021, 07:20:49 PM
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/mapping-coronavirus-in-northern-ireland-covid-cases-by-location-and-the-seven-day-rolling-average-39081262.html

"The total number of confirmed cases in NI now exceeds 280,974.The death toll now stands at 2,802.

A total of 5,492 people have died in the Republic of Ireland with over 477k cases."

NI experience is worse than that in the South
given population differences
Another disadvantage of the Union
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on November 16, 2021, 07:29:19 PM
https://twitter.com/politicsfairl/status/1460387152634732547?s=21

https://twitter.com/politicsfairl/status/1460391896405221376?s=21

RTÉ. Coronavirus fascists. Not only broadcasting false statistics but avoiding the facts that don't conform to their pro lockdown propaganda. Hardly surprising coming from the RTÉ but there you go anyway
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on November 16, 2021, 07:38:51 PM
https://belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/watch-inside-the-elk-teen-disco-linked-to-170-covid-cases-and-800-more-self-isolating-41057910.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 16, 2021, 07:43:59 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on November 16, 2021, 07:29:19 PM
https://twitter.com/politicsfairl/status/1460387152634732547?s=21

https://twitter.com/politicsfairl/status/1460391896405221376?s=21

RTÉ. Coronavirus fascists. Not only broadcasting false statistics but avoiding the facts that don't conform to their pro lockdown propaganda. Hardly surprising coming from the RTÉ but there you go anyway


Pro Lockdown, the term coined by the Daily Heil...because they need a bogeyman. Propaganda, fascists, all nice and civilised... Who runs that twitter account above btw? The right wing are making hay that's for sure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on November 16, 2021, 10:36:22 PM
A poster here questioned the relevance of me posting an article by Dr.Feehely from last year.

Here is one from the guardian, a more recent one. Note the lies littered through the article from big pharma and so called "scientists" , in fact I'll quote

"According to an analysis by PHE, the Pfizer/BioNTech jab was linked to a 94% vaccine effectiveness against hospital admission with the Delta variant after one dose and 96% after two doses, while the figures for the Oxford/AstraZeneca jab were 71% and 92% respectively."

👆someone riddle me that


https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/15/the-covid-delta-variant-how-effective-are-the-vaccines





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 17, 2021, 12:52:54 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 16, 2021, 10:36:22 PM
A poster here questioned the relevance of me posting an article by Dr.Feehely from last year.

Here is one from the guardian, a more recent one. Note the lies littered through the article from big pharma and so called "scientists" , in fact I'll quote

"According to an analysis by PHE, the Pfizer/BioNTech jab was linked to a 94% vaccine effectiveness against hospital admission with the Delta variant after one dose and 96% after two doses, while the figures for the Oxford/AstraZeneca jab were 71% and 92% respectively."

👆someone riddle me that


https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/15/the-covid-delta-variant-how-effective-are-the-vaccines

What point are you making here?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 17, 2021, 06:46:12 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 17, 2021, 12:52:54 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 16, 2021, 10:36:22 PM
A poster here questioned the relevance of me posting an article by Dr.Feehely from last year.

Here is one from the guardian, a more recent one. Note the lies littered through the article from big pharma and so called "scientists" , in fact I'll quote

"According to an analysis by PHE, the Pfizer/BioNTech jab was linked to a 94% vaccine effectiveness against hospital admission with the Delta variant after one dose and 96% after two doses, while the figures for the Oxford/AstraZeneca jab were 71% and 92% respectively."

👆someone riddle me that


https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/15/the-covid-delta-variant-how-effective-are-the-vaccines

What point are you making here?

I had no idea either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 17, 2021, 07:15:32 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1116/1260207-covid-live-updates-government/

The Government was last night presented with the grim prospect that rising Covid numbers could mean that up to 500 people would require ICU care next month.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 17, 2021, 07:16:14 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1116/1260207-covid-live-updates-government/


A professor of comparative immunology at TCD has said we are heading for 'lockdown in everything but name'.

Professor Cliona O'Farrelly pointed out that the Dutch government has already made that decision.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 07:58:31 AM
i doubt  loyalists and maybe republican pubs in the north will be enforcing vaccine certs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 08:02:48 AM
France strict vaxx passport policy highest number of cases since august
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 17, 2021, 08:06:42 AM
The Govt is running ads about Covid payments

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/43859-what-the-changes-announced-in-the-pandemic-unemployment-payment-will-mean-for-you/

At the same time it is reintroducing lockdown in everything but name.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 17, 2021, 08:11:23 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 07:58:31 AM
i doubt  loyalists and maybe republican pubs in the north will be enforcing vaccine certs
It'll be the same as the mask shit now, the bigger pubs in Belfast will ask but your local wont turn you away.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 08:43:57 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 08:02:48 AM
France strict vaxx passport policy highest number of cases since august

So the problem with a vaccine passport is what?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NAG1 on November 17, 2021, 08:51:02 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 08:43:57 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 08:02:48 AM
France strict vaxx passport policy highest number of cases since august

So the problem with a vaccine passport is what?

Had the vax passports been introduced at the correct time, when restrictions were being eased it would have made more sense.
For what it is worth I still think it is worth doing, we kind of thought people would take personal responsibility for their safety and the safety of others, they haven't done so, therefore restrictions must be placed on those who wont. You can't have it every way unfortunately in this case.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 09:02:50 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on November 17, 2021, 08:51:02 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 08:43:57 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 08:02:48 AM
France strict vaxx passport policy highest number of cases since august

So the problem with a vaccine passport is what?

Had the vax passports been introduced at the correct time, when restrictions were being eased it would have made more sense.
For what it is worth I still think it is worth doing, we kind of thought people would take personal responsibility for their safety and the safety of others, they have done so, therefore restrictions must be placed on those who wont. You can't have it every way unfortunately in this case.

If the up take is so high then there is a small group missing out, so what? Went round to the Spar last night, the estate locals not wearing masks, while the non estate locals were!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 09:06:01 AM
pub and club owners were warned they are being used as pawns now they are crying they were warned they came with the oul ahhh sure they would not do that again
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 09:07:16 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 08:43:57 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 08:02:48 AM
France strict vaxx passport policy highest number of cases since august

So the problem with a vaccine passport is what?

give people a false sense of security to galivant all over the place
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 09:10:38 AM
can djs now start early and people can start boozing earlier djs in clubs start at 6pm people start boozing up from 12 or 1pm
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 09:14:20 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 09:07:16 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 08:43:57 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 08:02:48 AM
France strict vaxx passport policy highest number of cases since august

So the problem with a vaccine passport is what?

give people a false sense of security to galivant all over the place

They will be in a better position than not vaccinated, Ive a friend whos son is in his early 30's, has been to hospital twice in the last week getting oxygen, not vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NAG1 on November 17, 2021, 09:22:28 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 09:07:16 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 08:43:57 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 08:02:48 AM
France strict vaxx passport policy highest number of cases since august

So the problem with a vaccine passport is what?

give people a false sense of security to galivant all over the place

I would think you will find that those people, who firstly got the vaccine and secondly went to the trouble of downloading the passport are more likely to have the sociable responsibility to avoid 'galivanting' more than was needed after 18 months of lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 17, 2021, 09:36:19 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 09:07:16 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 08:43:57 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 08:02:48 AM
France strict vaxx passport policy highest number of cases since august

So the problem with a vaccine passport is what?

give people a false sense of security to galivant all over the place

Sensible talk is not allowed in here. Now go sit on the naughty step.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 17, 2021, 09:57:22 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 08:02:48 AM
France strict vaxx passport policy highest number of cases since august
Any policy would have the highest number of cases since August when numbers were low. You would need to compare with March to see how well the policy is doing,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 10:06:33 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 17, 2021, 09:54:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 09:14:20 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 09:07:16 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 08:43:57 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 08:02:48 AM
France strict vaxx passport policy highest number of cases since august

So the problem with a vaccine passport is what?

give people a false sense of security to galivant all over the place

They will be in a better position than not vaccinated, Ive a friend whos son is in his early 30's, has been to hospital twice in the last week getting oxygen, not vaccinated.

I have a friend who is doubled vacced and was in ICU, ventilated and thank god now out of it, what's your point. Vacc and unvacced pass this thing on.

Has any of our politicians and some on here got a light on. The south have had passports, many other countries as well and it has not made a jot of fecking difference.

If he was vaccinated he'd have a better chance, by your logic we should not get vaccinated and just let her rip?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on November 17, 2021, 10:14:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 10:06:33 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 17, 2021, 09:54:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 09:14:20 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 09:07:16 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 08:43:57 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 08:02:48 AM
France strict vaxx passport policy highest number of cases since august

So the problem with a vaccine passport is what?

give people a false sense of security to galivant all over the place

They will be in a better position than not vaccinated, Ive a friend whos son is in his early 30's, has been to hospital twice in the last week getting oxygen, not vaccinated.

I have a friend who is doubled vacced and was in ICU, ventilated and thank god now out of it, what's your point. Vacc and unvacced pass this thing on.

Has any of our politicians and some on here got a light on. The south have had passports, many other countries as well and it has not made a jot of fecking difference.

If he was vaccinated he'd have a better chance, by your logic we should not get vaccinated and just let her rip?

People who refuse to heed medical advice should be made stick to that principle if they get ill. There are 3 antivaxxers in my office of 8 people, two of them have been hospitalised with covid. Would not have been allowed near a hospital if it was up to me, after having to listen for months to the brain-dead shit, [sorry "research"] they read on FB.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Truth hurts on November 17, 2021, 10:17:12 AM
Any data from areas after club championship wins? Maghera area has a high covid count. I can see the GAA shutting club bars soon
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on November 17, 2021, 10:22:45 AM
Nolan's latest projections didn't make much news or headlines this time.

Anyhow on a quick calculation and when compared to the UK they are trending at circa 38000 cases per day which appears to be their peak.

Our equivalent and peak ought to be 3000 based on the same metric. Probably adding to the fact that we had the most severe lockdown in Europe and maybe our testing is higher that we are trending at 4500 per day rather than 3000, anyhow it's hopeful that we may have reached a peak at this stage and the numbers either flatline similar to the UK or start to drop. Hears hoping.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 10:24:45 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on November 17, 2021, 10:14:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 10:06:33 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 17, 2021, 09:54:45 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 09:14:20 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 09:07:16 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 08:43:57 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 08:02:48 AM
France strict vaxx passport policy highest number of cases since august

So the problem with a vaccine passport is what?

give people a false sense of security to galivant all over the place

They will be in a better position than not vaccinated, Ive a friend whos son is in his early 30's, has been to hospital twice in the last week getting oxygen, not vaccinated.

I have a friend who is doubled vacced and was in ICU, ventilated and thank god now out of it, what's your point. Vacc and unvacced pass this thing on.

Has any of our politicians and some on here got a light on. The south have had passports, many other countries as well and it has not made a jot of fecking difference.

If he was vaccinated he'd have a better chance, by your logic we should not get vaccinated and just let her rip?

People who refuse to heed medical advice should be made stick to that principle if they get ill. There are 3 antivaxxers in my office of 8 people, two of them have been hospitalised with covid. Would not have been allowed near a hospital if it was up to me, after having to listen for months to the brain-dead shit, [sorry "research"] they read on FB.


does that apply to fat people because they have not took medical advise also people that crash on icy road aswell that were told not to drive smokers should also be refused cancer treatment
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 10:25:41 AM
Anyone involved in a car crash that was deemed unnecessary   journey should not be treated
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 10:26:49 AM
Quote from: Truth hurts on November 17, 2021, 10:17:12 AM
Any data from areas after club championship wins? Maghera area has a high covid count. I can see the GAA shutting club bars soon


i was going to say on here that the gaa club championships have been in line with rise in cases will fingers now be pointed at the gaa or they now free from sin and guilt too
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 10:28:46 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 10:25:41 AM
Anyone involved in a car crash that was deemed unnecessary   journey should not be treated

Definitely for stupid people too, they are wasting oxygen  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 17, 2021, 11:00:59 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 10:25:41 AM
Anyone involved in a car crash that was deemed unnecessary   journey should not be treated
??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 17, 2021, 11:51:38 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 17, 2021, 10:22:45 AM
Nolan's latest projections didn't make much news or headlines this time.

Anyhow on a quick calculation and when compared to the UK they are trending at circa 38000 cases per day which appears to be their peak.

Our equivalent and peak ought to be 3000 based on the same metric. Probably adding to the fact that we had the most severe lockdown in Europe and maybe our testing is higher that we are trending at 4500 per day rather than 3000, anyhow it's hopeful that we may have reached a peak at this stage and the numbers either flatline similar to the UK or start to drop. Hears hoping.

We never had at any point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Truth hurts on November 17, 2021, 11:53:18 AM
Just got told by a gaa official that GAA rules will be changing on covid this week
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 17, 2021, 12:22:13 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 17, 2021, 11:51:38 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 17, 2021, 10:22:45 AM
Nolan's latest projections didn't make much news or headlines this time.

Anyhow on a quick calculation and when compared to the UK they are trending at circa 38000 cases per day which appears to be their peak.

Our equivalent and peak ought to be 3000 based on the same metric. Probably adding to the fact that we had the most severe lockdown in Europe and maybe our testing is higher that we are trending at 4500 per day rather than 3000, anyhow it's hopeful that we may have reached a peak at this stage and the numbers either flatline similar to the UK or start to drop. Hears hoping.

We never had at any point.
In the South? Sure there were people nearly getting arrested if they went for a walk outside a 5km radius for a while. Couldnt be much stricter
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 12:23:49 PM
are we looking provincial championships behind closed doors
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 12:25:52 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 17, 2021, 12:22:13 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 17, 2021, 11:51:38 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 17, 2021, 10:22:45 AM
Nolan's latest projections didn't make much news or headlines this time.

Anyhow on a quick calculation and when compared to the UK they are trending at circa 38000 cases per day which appears to be their peak.

Our equivalent and peak ought to be 3000 based on the same metric. Probably adding to the fact that we had the most severe lockdown in Europe and maybe our testing is higher that we are trending at 4500 per day rather than 3000, anyhow it's hopeful that we may have reached a peak at this stage and the numbers either flatline similar to the UK or start to drop. Hears hoping.

We never had at any point.
In the South? Sure there were people nearly getting arrested if they went for a walk outside a 5km radius for a while. Couldnt be much stricter

Arrested? what were the figures for those arrested outside a 5k radius?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 12:31:49 PM
sinn fein will probably back passports because the dup might block them  but if dup vote for them then sinn fein might go against them so they can play off each other
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 17, 2021, 12:52:10 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 12:31:49 PM
sinn fein will probably back passports because the dup might block them  but if dup vote for them then sinn fein might go against them so they can play off each other

No. SF have always said they'd be in favour of them because it's the bloody sensible thing to do. I believe all the parties bar DUP/TUV are backing them.

This whole "they're as bad as each other" narrative is a very lazy analysis.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 12:53:23 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 17, 2021, 12:52:10 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 12:31:49 PM
sinn fein will probably back passports because the dup might block them  but if dup vote for them then sinn fein might go against them so they can play off each other

No. SF have always said they'd be in favour of them because it's the bloody sensible thing to do. I believe all the parties bar DUP/TUV are backing them.

This whole "they're as bad as each other" narrative is a very lazy analysis.


did sinn fein not  vote against or abstain in the south
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 17, 2021, 12:54:05 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 12:23:49 PM
are we looking provincial championships behind closed doors

I would say so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 17, 2021, 01:03:27 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 17, 2021, 12:22:13 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 17, 2021, 11:51:38 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 17, 2021, 10:22:45 AM
Nolan's latest projections didn't make much news or headlines this time.

Anyhow on a quick calculation and when compared to the UK they are trending at circa 38000 cases per day which appears to be their peak.

Our equivalent and peak ought to be 3000 based on the same metric. Probably adding to the fact that we had the most severe lockdown in Europe and maybe our testing is higher that we are trending at 4500 per day rather than 3000, anyhow it's hopeful that we may have reached a peak at this stage and the numbers either flatline similar to the UK or start to drop. Hears hoping.

We never had at any point.
In the South? Sure there were people nearly getting arrested if they went for a walk outside a 5km radius for a while. Couldnt be much stricter

Yes in the south.

No curfews, allowed out to exercise regardless of the limit, takeaways etc. open would be just a few examples of where we didn't have the most severe restrictions compared to some of our European counterparts.

Believe what you want though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on November 17, 2021, 01:13:45 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 12:53:23 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 17, 2021, 12:52:10 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 12:31:49 PM
sinn fein will probably back passports because the dup might block them  but if dup vote for them then sinn fein might go against them so they can play off each other

No. SF have always said they'd be in favour of them because it's the bloody sensible thing to do. I believe all the parties bar DUP/TUV are backing them.

This whole "they're as bad as each other" narrative is a very lazy analysis.


did sinn fein not  vote against or abstain in the south

SF voted against them in the South.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2021, 01:23:34 PM
Quote from: clarshack on November 17, 2021, 01:13:45 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 12:53:23 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 17, 2021, 12:52:10 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 12:31:49 PM
sinn fein will probably back passports because the dup might block them  but if dup vote for them then sinn fein might go against them so they can play off each other

No. SF have always said they'd be in favour of them because it's the bloody sensible thing to do. I believe all the parties bar DUP/TUV are backing them.

This whole "they're as bad as each other" narrative is a very lazy analysis.


did sinn fein not  vote against or abstain in the south

SF voted against them in the South.

lol I canny wait until people realise what fork tongued wishy washy dicks SF are.

To them its about 2 things

Vote against DUP
Vote against FF/FG

Gimps
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 17, 2021, 01:35:47 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 17, 2021, 12:52:10 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 12:31:49 PM
sinn fein will probably back passports because the dup might block them  but if dup vote for them then sinn fein might go against them so they can play off each other

No. SF have always said they'd be in favour of them because it's the bloody sensible thing to do. I believe all the parties bar DUP/TUV are backing them.

This whole "they're as bad as each other" narrative is a very lazy analysis.

Yes, it is lazy analysis. But it's also true.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Truth hurts on November 17, 2021, 01:42:20 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 17, 2021, 12:54:05 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 12:23:49 PM
are we looking provincial championships behind closed doors

I would say so.

That's an option on the table, restrictions to 500 and no changing rooms to be used. Club bars to close all December in 32 counties.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 02:07:35 PM
avoid christmas partys and stay at home says holahan why not just tell companies to cancel christmas parties then
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 17, 2021, 02:25:42 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 17, 2021, 01:03:27 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 17, 2021, 12:22:13 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 17, 2021, 11:51:38 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 17, 2021, 10:22:45 AM
Nolan's latest projections didn't make much news or headlines this time.

Anyhow on a quick calculation and when compared to the UK they are trending at circa 38000 cases per day which appears to be their peak.

Our equivalent and peak ought to be 3000 based on the same metric. Probably adding to the fact that we had the most severe lockdown in Europe and maybe our testing is higher that we are trending at 4500 per day rather than 3000, anyhow it's hopeful that we may have reached a peak at this stage and the numbers either flatline similar to the UK or start to drop. Hears hoping.

We never had at any point.
In the South? Sure there were people nearly getting arrested if they went for a walk outside a 5km radius for a while. Couldnt be much stricter

Yes in the south.

No curfews, allowed out to exercise regardless of the limit, takeaways etc. open would be just a few examples of where we didn't have the most severe restrictions compared to some of our European counterparts.

Believe what you want though.
Awk you were allowed outside. Awful good of the government to permit you to go outside. Still a f**king joke no matter what the restrictions were in other countries.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 17, 2021, 02:26:42 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 02:07:35 PM
avoid christmas partys and stay at home says holahan why not just tell companies to cancel christmas parties then
Hopefully when this is all over scum like him do jail time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 17, 2021, 02:30:21 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 17, 2021, 02:26:42 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 02:07:35 PM
avoid christmas partys and stay at home says holahan why not just tell companies to cancel christmas parties then
Hopefully when this is all over scum like him do jail time.

Do tell, what law has he broken? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 17, 2021, 02:41:02 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 17, 2021, 02:25:42 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 17, 2021, 01:03:27 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 17, 2021, 12:22:13 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 17, 2021, 11:51:38 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 17, 2021, 10:22:45 AM
Nolan's latest projections didn't make much news or headlines this time.

Anyhow on a quick calculation and when compared to the UK they are trending at circa 38000 cases per day which appears to be their peak.

Our equivalent and peak ought to be 3000 based on the same metric. Probably adding to the fact that we had the most severe lockdown in Europe and maybe our testing is higher that we are trending at 4500 per day rather than 3000, anyhow it's hopeful that we may have reached a peak at this stage and the numbers either flatline similar to the UK or start to drop. Hears hoping.

We never had at any point.
In the South? Sure there were people nearly getting arrested if they went for a walk outside a 5km radius for a while. Couldnt be much stricter

Yes in the south.

No curfews, allowed out to exercise regardless of the limit, takeaways etc. open would be just a few examples of where we didn't have the most severe restrictions compared to some of our European counterparts.

Believe what you want though.
Awk you were allowed outside. Awful good of the government to permit you to go outside. Still a f**king joke no matter what the restrictions were in other countries.

So basically you lied or over embellished the that we had the most severe lockdown in Europe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 02:42:29 PM
so will now see christmas parties starting off in the pub then people going to houses at 12am
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 17, 2021, 02:49:18 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 02:42:29 PM
so will now see christmas parties starting off in the pub then people going to houses at 12am
Yup. Which is why the early closing of pubs was always stupid. Realistically if you're going out you're not gonna finish up at 11 or 12 or whatever times pubs are made to close. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NAG1 on November 17, 2021, 02:50:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2021, 01:23:34 PM
Quote from: clarshack on November 17, 2021, 01:13:45 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 12:53:23 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 17, 2021, 12:52:10 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 12:31:49 PM
sinn fein will probably back passports because the dup might block them  but if dup vote for them then sinn fein might go against them so they can play off each other

No. SF have always said they'd be in favour of them because it's the bloody sensible thing to do. I believe all the parties bar DUP/TUV are backing them.

This whole "they're as bad as each other" narrative is a very lazy analysis.


did sinn fein not  vote against or abstain in the south

SF voted against them in the South.

lol I canny wait until people realise what fork tongued wishy washy dicks SF are.

To them its about 2 things

Vote against DUP
Vote against FF/FG

Gimps

The wonderful thing is about your statement (leaving SF out of it) if you followed your own advice there I doubt you would be too far wrong on many things going against the DUP FF & FG  :)

Just saying like  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 02:53:55 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 17, 2021, 02:49:18 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 02:42:29 PM
so will now see christmas parties starting off in the pub then people going to houses at 12am
Yup. Which is why the early closing of pubs was always stupid. Realistically if you're going out you're not gonna finish up at 11 or 12 or whatever times pubs are made to close.

Pub closes I go home, and trying to get a taxi is impossible nowadays, nearly can't be bothered. Kids on the other hand, yes they will stay out, but sure they are invincible and we wouldnt want to be destroying their mental health, just their liver will do
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2021, 03:09:02 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on November 17, 2021, 02:50:15 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2021, 01:23:34 PM
Quote from: clarshack on November 17, 2021, 01:13:45 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 12:53:23 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 17, 2021, 12:52:10 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 12:31:49 PM
sinn fein will probably back passports because the dup might block them  but if dup vote for them then sinn fein might go against them so they can play off each other

No. SF have always said they'd be in favour of them because it's the bloody sensible thing to do. I believe all the parties bar DUP/TUV are backing them.

This whole "they're as bad as each other" narrative is a very lazy analysis.


did sinn fein not  vote against or abstain in the south

SF voted against them in the South.

lol I canny wait until people realise what fork tongued wishy washy dicks SF are.

To them its about 2 things

Vote against DUP
Vote against FF/FG

Gimps

The wonderful thing is about your statement (leaving SF out of it) if you followed your own advice there I doubt you would be too far wrong on many things going against the DUP FF & FG  :)

Just saying like  ;D

It's not about those parties ;none of which I'm a fan of. It's about SF inconsistentcy and opposition based on others policies rather than doing the right thing .

Gimps
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 03:27:46 PM
they will probably bring in a new house visits rule again maybe tho that didn't stop people
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 17, 2021, 03:30:50 PM
Was just reading about SF voting against them in the dáil in the summer. I got that wrong. Wtf were they at....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 17, 2021, 03:57:46 PM
Passports in the North.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 04:18:06 PM
but wont come in for another month
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 04:24:53 PM
hospitality venues that serve food and drink so does that mean if you just serve drink you dont  have to have them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 17, 2021, 05:07:06 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 04:24:53 PM
hospitality venues that serve food and drink so does that mean if you just serve drink you dont  have to have them

You still need them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 17, 2021, 05:07:25 PM
Quote from: clarshack on November 17, 2021, 04:47:17 PM
where does this leave people who are full of antibodies from natural infection (within the 6 months prior)? are they barred from the pub too?

Yes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on November 17, 2021, 05:17:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 17, 2021, 03:57:46 PM
Passports in the North.
BBC News - Covid-19: Stormont ministers vote for mandatory Covid passports
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59325108

I'd bet money that doesn't come to fruition or at the very least is fudged until after the New Year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 05:22:02 PM
they will probably still do a lockdown of pubs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 05:30:14 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 05:22:02 PM
they will probably still do a lockdown of pubs

You need to go back to bed and get up on the right side, are you always negative?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 17, 2021, 05:36:32 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 05:22:02 PM
they will probably still do a lockdown of pubs

Well as the grants/furlough has stopped, there will be no pubs left to close soon enough anyway
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 17, 2021, 05:39:38 PM
Sinn Fein will never ever get another vote from me. Tramps.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 17, 2021, 05:45:53 PM
You can vote for DUPUDA,  they seem to share your silly view on Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on November 17, 2021, 05:48:52 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 17, 2021, 05:17:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 17, 2021, 03:57:46 PM
Passports in the North.
BBC News - Covid-19: Stormont ministers vote for mandatory Covid passports
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59325108

I'd bet money that doesn't come to fruition or at the very least is fudged until after the New Year.
Stupid decision. Gonna be some boycott I'd say
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 17, 2021, 05:50:48 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 17, 2021, 05:45:53 PM
You can vote for DUPUDA,  they seem to share your silly view on Covid.
Maybe you should as they seem to share your views on Republicanism.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:02:20 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on November 17, 2021, 05:48:52 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 17, 2021, 05:17:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 17, 2021, 03:57:46 PM
Passports in the North.
BBC News - Covid-19: Stormont ministers vote for mandatory Covid passports
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59325108

I'd bet money that doesn't come to fruition or at the very least is fudged until after the New Year.
Stupid decision. Gonna be some boycott I'd say

There'll be loads boycotting it, those that aren't vaccinated will be boycotting the pubs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 17, 2021, 06:04:06 PM
Quote from: clarshack on November 17, 2021, 05:15:42 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 17, 2021, 05:07:25 PM
Quote from: clarshack on November 17, 2021, 04:47:17 PM
where does this leave people who are full of antibodies from natural infection (within the 6 months prior)? are they barred from the pub too?

Yes.

Does the passport in the South not allow for Covid Recovery within the last 6 months?

Actually, I just saw proving you had COVID in the last 6months gets you in.

Not sure how you'd prove that though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:04:12 PM
So passport not needed, lateral flow test confirmation and if last 6 months you had Covid! Some spin on this news already!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GiveItToTheShooters on November 17, 2021, 06:19:30 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:02:20 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on November 17, 2021, 05:48:52 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 17, 2021, 05:17:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 17, 2021, 03:57:46 PM
Passports in the North.
BBC News - Covid-19: Stormont ministers vote for mandatory Covid passports
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59325108

I'd bet money that doesn't come to fruition or at the very least is fudged until after the New Year.
Stupid decision. Gonna be some boycott I'd say

There'll be loads boycotting it, those that aren't vaccinated will be boycotting the pubs
A lot of ones that are vaccinated as well
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 06:19:36 PM
was their not a 1/3 pubs in the republic ignoring it so i wonder what it will be in the north.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 17, 2021, 06:20:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:04:12 PM
So passport not needed, lateral flow test confirmation and if last 6 months you had Covid! Some spin on this news already!

So, unvaccinated Tom takes test to enter pub, meaning he doesn't have covid

Vaccinated Dick enters pub with passport, meaning he could have covid.

So who's likely to do the spreading?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 06:21:21 PM
i heard someone play the ole ahh my phones battery died thing too
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 17, 2021, 06:22:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:02:20 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on November 17, 2021, 05:48:52 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 17, 2021, 05:17:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 17, 2021, 03:57:46 PM
Passports in the North.
BBC News - Covid-19: Stormont ministers vote for mandatory Covid passports
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59325108

I'd bet money that doesn't come to fruition or at the very least is fudged until after the New Year.
Stupid decision. Gonna be some boycott I'd say

There'll be loads boycotting it, those that aren't vaccinated will be boycotting the pubs

Less queueing for the rest of us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:27:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 17, 2021, 06:20:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:04:12 PM
So passport not needed, lateral flow test confirmation and if last 6 months you had Covid! Some spin on this news already!

So, unvaccinated Tom takes test to enter pub, meaning he doesn't have covid

Vaccinated Dick enters pub with passport, meaning he could have covid.

So who's likely to do the spreading?

Just stay in then, you and Eire90 can have a mask free, passport free candle light dinner and talk about GAA games on a Friday night
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 06:29:29 PM
i dont go to pubs anyway
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:32:04 PM
🤦‍♂️
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 17, 2021, 06:32:38 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 17, 2021, 06:20:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:04:12 PM
So passport not needed, lateral flow test confirmation and if last 6 months you had Covid! Some spin on this news already!

So, unvaccinated Tom takes test to enter pub, meaning he doesn't have covid

Vaccinated Dick enters pub with passport, meaning he could have covid.

So who's likely to do the spreading?

Is it Harry? Is it a trick question?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 17, 2021, 06:38:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:27:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 17, 2021, 06:20:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:04:12 PM
So passport not needed, lateral flow test confirmation and if last 6 months you had Covid! Some spin on this news already!

So, unvaccinated Tom takes test to enter pub, meaning he doesn't have covid

Vaccinated Dick enters pub with passport, meaning he could have covid.

So who's likely to do the spreading?

Just stay in then, you and Eire90 can have a mask free, passport free candle light dinner and talk about GAA games on a Friday night

It's a simple question to answer. But the answer doesn't  fit your  narrative
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on November 17, 2021, 06:42:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:27:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 17, 2021, 06:20:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:04:12 PM
So passport not needed, lateral flow test confirmation and if last 6 months you had Covid! Some spin on this news already!

So, unvaccinated Tom takes test to enter pub, meaning he doesn't have covid

Vaccinated Dick enters pub with passport, meaning he could have covid.

So who's likely to do the spreading?

Just stay in then, you and Eire90 can have a mask free, passport free candle light dinner and talk about GAA games on a Friday night

Dont forget to include all his aliases in the talk,

Kerry for Sam
The greatest
etc
.
why do folks still take this idiots bait.

.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:45:25 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 17, 2021, 06:38:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:27:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 17, 2021, 06:20:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:04:12 PM
So passport not needed, lateral flow test confirmation and if last 6 months you had Covid! Some spin on this news already!

So, unvaccinated Tom takes test to enter pub, meaning he doesn't have covid

Vaccinated Dick enters pub with passport, meaning he could have covid.

So who's likely to do the spreading?

Just stay in then, you and Eire90 can have a mask free, passport free candle light dinner and talk about GAA games on a Friday night

It's a simple question to answer. But the answer doesn't  fit your  narrative

It's very simple you can catch Covid from vaccinated people, but they have shown that you are significantly better off (as is the nhs) from being hospitalised, thus saving the beds for people who have other medical problems.

So having more people vaccinated will reduce pressure in the nhs?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 17, 2021, 06:54:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:45:25 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 17, 2021, 06:38:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:27:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 17, 2021, 06:20:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:04:12 PM
So passport not needed, lateral flow test confirmation and if last 6 months you had Covid! Some spin on this news already!

So, unvaccinated Tom takes test to enter pub, meaning he doesn't have covid

Vaccinated Dick enters pub with passport, meaning he could have covid.

So who's likely to do the spreading?

Just stay in then, you and Eire90 can have a mask free, passport free candle light dinner and talk about GAA games on a Friday night

It's a simple question to answer. But the answer doesn't  fit your  narrative

It's very simple you can catch Covid from vaccinated people, but they have shown that you are significantly better off (as is the nhs) from being hospitalised, thus saving the beds for people who have other medical problems.

So having more people vaccinated will reduce pressure in the nhs?

But it's not just about the nhs. So is it ok for tens of thousands to have the virus, but sure there's only a dozen in ICU, so it's all grand eh?  Sure theres plenty of beds free. Is that acceptable?

Surely it's more important to eliminate transmission altogether? Saying vaccinated people are less affected, won't need hospitalisation etc,  is a cop out. It's still a transmission! And that transmission leads to further transmissions. And somewhere down that line of transmission someone even  fully vaccinated will succumb to the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:57:15 PM
So Benny there's two ways of fixing it, full lockdowns till when there's a cure, or let it rip through the community until it dies out.

Which one do you prefer?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 17, 2021, 07:12:49 PM
Quote from: joemamas on November 17, 2021, 06:42:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:27:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 17, 2021, 06:20:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:04:12 PM
So passport not needed, lateral flow test confirmation and if last 6 months you had Covid! Some spin on this news already!

So, unvaccinated Tom takes test to enter pub, meaning he doesn't have covid

Vaccinated Dick enters pub with passport, meaning he could have covid.

So who's likely to do the spreading?

Just stay in then, you and Eire90 can have a mask free, passport free candle light dinner and talk about GAA games on a Friday night

Dont forget to include all his aliases in the talk,

Kerry for Sam
The greatest
etc
.
why do folks still take this idiots bait.

.

Serious amount of sockpuppetry in here at the moment. A complete waste of time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 17, 2021, 07:15:48 PM
Africa seems to be having a better outcome with covid for a third world continent than than the rest of the world   People point to younger population and lack of care homes  ,not much vaccinated there either , the outlier is South Africa which is the most modern place in Africa, but has a huge drug problem which would result in immune system problems.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on November 17, 2021, 08:11:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 17, 2021, 07:15:48 PM
Africa seems to be having a better outcome with covid for a third world continent than than the rest of the world   People point to younger population and lack of care homes  ,not much vaccinated there either , the outlier is South Africa which is the most modern place in Africa, but has a huge drug problem which would result in immune system problems.

Our modern ways and diets have not put us in a good place to cope with this, the Africa situation seems to back this up.
https://youtu.be/-s5szfPYKY4
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 17, 2021, 08:43:50 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 17, 2021, 08:11:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 17, 2021, 07:15:48 PM
Africa seems to be having a better outcome with covid for a third world continent than than the rest of the world   People point to younger population and lack of care homes  ,not much vaccinated there either , the outlier is South Africa which is the most modern place in Africa, but has a huge drug problem which would result in immune system problems.

Our modern ways and diets have not put us in a good place to cope with this, the Africa situation seems to back this up.
https://youtu.be/-s5szfPYKY4

No it does, there is nothing to back it up your hypothesis. You could just as easily hypothesise that Africans have a genetic traits that allow them to cope with covid better than Europeans  ::)

Some of this wellness pseudoscientific shite is just as bad as the extreme anti vax arguements. Its nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 08:58:28 PM
wil the accecpt the paper vaccine cards or does it have to be swanns app
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 17, 2021, 09:26:17 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 17, 2021, 08:58:28 PM
wil the accecpt the paper vaccine cards or does it have to be swanns app

I never got an email about my Vaccine cert. I just show whoever I have to show my card I got the day of the 2nd vaccination.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 17, 2021, 09:34:33 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 17, 2021, 08:43:50 PM
No it does, there is nothing to back it up your hypothesis. You could just as easily hypothesise that Africans have a genetic traits that allow them to cope with covid better than Europeans  ::)

This hypothesis is pretty much proven
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59165157
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on November 17, 2021, 10:21:45 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 17, 2021, 08:43:50 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 17, 2021, 08:11:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 17, 2021, 07:15:48 PM
Africa seems to be having a better outcome with covid for a third world continent than than the rest of the world   People point to younger population and lack of care homes  ,not much vaccinated there either , the outlier is South Africa which is the most modern place in Africa, but has a huge drug problem which would result in immune system problems.

Our modern ways and diets have not put us in a good place to cope with this, the Africa situation seems to back this up.
https://youtu.be/-s5szfPYKY4

No it does, there is nothing to back it up your hypothesis. You could just as easily hypothesise that Africans have a genetic traits that allow them to cope with covid better than Europeans  ::)

Some of this wellness pseudoscientific shite is just as bad as the extreme anti vax arguements. Its nonsense.
[/quote

Go ahead lad lol, you didn't watch it I take it. What a future for your kids, looking after you in your medically supported old age. Don't see there being any nursing homes left to mind you the way things are going. Best of luck.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Olly on November 17, 2021, 11:18:46 PM
So, will the carvery be open or not?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 17, 2021, 11:34:11 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 17, 2021, 10:21:45 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 17, 2021, 08:43:50 PM
Quote from: Last Man on November 17, 2021, 08:11:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 17, 2021, 07:15:48 PM
Africa seems to be having a better outcome with covid for a third world continent than than the rest of the world   People point to younger population and lack of care homes  ,not much vaccinated there either , the outlier is South Africa which is the most modern place in Africa, but has a huge drug problem which would result in immune system problems.

Our modern ways and diets have not put us in a good place to cope with this, the Africa situation seems to back this up.
https://youtu.be/-s5szfPYKY4

No it does, there is nothing to back it up your hypothesis. You could just as easily hypothesise that Africans have a genetic traits that allow them to cope with covid better than Europeans  ::)

Some of this wellness pseudoscientific shite is just as bad as the extreme anti vax arguements. Its nonsense.
[/quote

Go ahead lad lol, you didn't watch it I take it. What a future for your kids, looking after you in your medically supported old age. Don't see there being any nursing homes left to mind you the way things are going. Best of luck.

::)

Please point to part in that video where the evidence is presented that difference in African and western diets explains the statement "Africa seems to be having a better outcome with covid for a third world continent than than the rest of the world". I couldn't find it.

I guarantee I'll be just fine but thanks for your concern.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on November 18, 2021, 12:18:20 AM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40746498.html

This guy is a sociopath and a complete nut job.

Great to see all the conspiracies about a winter lockdown coming to fruition.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on November 18, 2021, 12:37:57 AM
QuoteQuote from: highorlow on November 16, 2021, 10:36:22 PM
A poster here questioned the relevance of me posting an article by Dr.Feehely from last year.

Here is one from the guardian, a more recent one. Note the lies littered through the article from big pharma and so called "scientists" , in fact I'll quote

"According to an analysis by PHE, the Pfizer/BioNTech jab was linked to a 94% vaccine effectiveness against hospital admission with the Delta variant after one dose and 96% after two doses, while the figures for the Oxford/AstraZeneca jab were 71% and 92% respectively."

👆someone riddle me that


https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/15/the-covid-delta-variant-how-effective-are-the-vaccines

What point are you making here?

We have the same proportion in hospital vis a vis cases now as we had when we had no vaccine.

Big Pharma have sold us a pup. We were told the vaccines would reduce hospitalisations by 90%, this was told to us by scientists. The evidence now points that this was a blatant lie.

If you need any further clarification on my POINT feel free to ask.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 18, 2021, 12:47:39 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 18, 2021, 12:37:57 AM
QuoteQuote from: highorlow on November 16, 2021, 10:36:22 PM
A poster here questioned the relevance of me posting an article by Dr.Feehely from last year.

Here is one from the guardian, a more recent one. Note the lies littered through the article from big pharma and so called "scientists" , in fact I'll quote

"According to an analysis by PHE, the Pfizer/BioNTech jab was linked to a 94% vaccine effectiveness against hospital admission with the Delta variant after one dose and 96% after two doses, while the figures for the Oxford/AstraZeneca jab were 71% and 92% respectively."

👆someone riddle me that


https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/15/the-covid-delta-variant-how-effective-are-the-vaccines

What point are you making here?

We have the same proportion in hospital vis a vis cases now as we had when we had no vaccine.

Big Pharma have sold us a pup. We were told the vaccines would reduce hospitalisations by 90%, this was told to us by scientists. The evidence now points that this was a blatant lie.

If you need any further clarification on my POINT feel free to ask.

I think you are the one spouting lies. In the 26 counties there are around 4000 cases, around 80 go to hospital, but half of these are unvaccinated. So about 1% go to hospital, it was more like 10% at the beginning, so the vaccines are clearly working.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2021, 02:41:18 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 18, 2021, 12:47:39 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 18, 2021, 12:37:57 AM
QuoteQuote from: highorlow on November 16, 2021, 10:36:22 PM
A poster here questioned the relevance of me posting an article by Dr.Feehely from last year.

Here is one from the guardian, a more recent one. Note the lies littered through the article from big pharma and so called "scientists" , in fact I'll quote

"According to an analysis by PHE, the Pfizer/BioNTech jab was linked to a 94% vaccine effectiveness against hospital admission with the Delta variant after one dose and 96% after two doses, while the figures for the Oxford/AstraZeneca jab were 71% and 92% respectively."

👆someone riddle me that


https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/15/the-covid-delta-variant-how-effective-are-the-vaccines

What point are you making here?

We have the same proportion in hospital vis a vis cases now as we had when we had no vaccine.

Big Pharma have sold us a pup. We were told the vaccines would reduce hospitalisations by 90%, this was told to us by scientists. The evidence now points that this was a blatant lie.

If you need any further clarification on my POINT feel free to ask.

I think you are the one spouting lies. In the 26 counties there are around 4000 cases, around 80 go to hospital, but half of these are unvaccinated. So about 1% go to hospital, it was more like 10% at the beginning, so the vaccines are clearly working.
Currently around 2% go to.hosputal.
Ireland only has 4 ICU per 100,000. Ni isn't much better AIFK

There are 90,000 immunocompromised. This vaccinated cohort is the one providing most of the vaccinated people in ICU.

There are basically no.margins.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 18, 2021, 08:36:13 AM
So you just need a lateral flow test, which you do at home yourself and upload the result? This is some laugh.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2021, 08:40:24 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2021, 08:36:13 AM
So you just need a lateral flow test, which you do at home yourself and upload the result? This is some laugh.

You are confusing!

So before the details came out you weren't happy, now that the 'restrictions' are easier to move about, you aren't happy?

You must be some craic on a night out

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 18, 2021, 09:21:56 AM
They now saying you might need lateral flow tests and vaccine to get into pub looks like they killed of Spontaneousism  which brings in a lot of money
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 18, 2021, 09:22:35 AM
guy on radio ulster saying they looking at needing both test and vaccine
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 18, 2021, 09:37:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2021, 08:40:24 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 18, 2021, 08:36:13 AM
So you just need a lateral flow test, which you do at home yourself and upload the result? This is some laugh.

You are confusing!

So before the details came out you weren't happy, now that the 'restrictions' are easier to move about, you aren't happy?

You must be some craic on a night out
Course I'm not happy. But it defeats the purpose of a vaccine passport because the lft's are nowhere near accurate and even if you did happen to test positive it's only a matter of ticking a box to say it's negative!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2021, 09:38:32 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 18, 2021, 09:22:35 AM
guy on radio ulster saying they looking at needing both test and vaccine

Is this guy from the government or just some guy?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 18, 2021, 09:44:21 AM
some health that works with the health services but then nolan started saying stuff to contradict him
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2021, 09:59:06 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 18, 2021, 09:44:21 AM
some health that works with the health services but then nolan started saying stuff to contradict him

So it wasn't anyone from government and possibly a porter who works in the health service?

A lateral flow takes less than 30 minutes, but is not always 100%, my daughter is doing a PCR test now, had temp last night feeling sore today, did a lateral flow test last night, negative. But showing signs of covid. She's 18 and been flat out at birthday parties lately, I'll not be surprised she is positive!

Will at least contain her to her room for studying  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 18, 2021, 10:26:06 AM
it was some guy with whos last name was stagg
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2021, 10:26:56 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 18, 2021, 10:26:06 AM
it was some guy with whos last name was stagg

Colin Stagg?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 18, 2021, 10:35:25 AM
Family member did 4 lateral flows in the summer in one day, only 1 was positive, faintly. PCR was subsequently positive. People cannot be allowed to use negative lateral flows alone. They just aren't reliable enough. Not to mention they can be faked very easily!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 18, 2021, 10:37:27 AM
tony holahan says  their maybe over 400k cases of covid in december when ireland have had 511,045 up to now so is holahan saying that we are going to get nearly as many cases in one month than the last 18 months and thats with the high vaccination rate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2021, 10:39:11 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 18, 2021, 10:35:25 AM
Family member did 4 lateral flows in the summer in one day, only 1 was positive, faintly. PCR was subsequently positive. People cannot be allowed to use negative lateral flows alone. They just aren't reliable enough. Not to mention they can be faked very easily!

Agreed, getting a tickly cough as a type  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2021, 10:51:26 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 18, 2021, 10:37:27 AM
tony holahan says  their maybe over 400k cases of covid in december when ireland have had 511,045 up to now so is holahan saying that we are going to get nearly as many cases in one month than the last 18 months and thats with the high vaccination rate.
Delta transmission is 1.5 times the previous variant.
If one person gets it they will infect 1.5 times more people. This becomes exponential.

1.5 to the power of 10 is 57.
1.5 to the power of 20 is 3325.

It's a small country. 90,000 people are immunodeficient
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 18, 2021, 11:03:40 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 18, 2021, 10:37:27 AM
tony holahan says  their maybe over 400k cases of covid in december when ireland have had 511,045 up to now so is holahan saying that we are going to get nearly as many cases in one month than the last 18 months and thats with the high vaccination rate.
I wish your mammy would stop keeping you home from school!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 18, 2021, 11:34:59 AM
not my words holohan got a problem take it up with nphet or holohan
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on November 18, 2021, 11:39:28 AM
QuoteI think you are the one spouting lies. In the 26 counties there are around 4000 cases, around 80 go to hospital, but half of these are unvaccinated. So about 1% go to hospital, it was more like 10% at the beginning, so the vaccines are clearly working.

If I'm spouting lies then so are NPHET with their predictions. Philip Nolan has stated that an optimistic future scenario is over 2000 people in hospital and at least 400 in critical care.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 18, 2021, 11:40:33 AM
You can't lie if making a prediction  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 18, 2021, 03:42:40 PM
Is this Eire90 fella Angelo?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 18, 2021, 04:06:21 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 18, 2021, 03:42:40 PM
Is this Eire90 fella Angelo?

Could be. Was about last week pretending to be an Antrim man
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 18, 2021, 04:28:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:57:15 PM
So Benny there's two ways of fixing it, full lockdowns till when there's a cure, or let it rip through the community until it dies out.

Which one do you prefer?

Well it looks  like it's ripping through the community rightly at the minute!  I just don't think passports are the answer. I mean, 3/4 people  from different houses could head out for a drink/meal. They may have come in the same car, so they could have spread it then without even the possibility  of spreading it around a booth/table. Yet they get entry no questions asked. And yes,  you might say as they're jabbed, infection won't be as severe. But it's still an infection, and it's still another figure, and 3/4 houses/workplaces/schools etc are now at risk from further spread.  While a passport exists, people feel like they are no danger or not at risk, because it will give them a false sense of protection (like the vaccine), and they won't care as long as they can enter the pub.

And how often on average will someone go out for a drink/meal? Once or twice a week, if that? But how many times have those same People entered other houses without masks during that week? Shared  a car with someone without masks?  Entered shops, worked beside someone?  Hospitality is  minute compared to what is happening on a  wider scale in the community. I've met people in shops who have worn masks,  yet share cars, and enter family/friends houses without masks.  Why do they wear masks in a shop to help protect strangers yet they don't wear them  to protect elderly parents, vulnerable friends/family? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on November 18, 2021, 05:28:31 PM
The inclusion of LFT as an option alongside covid passports is laughable.  The politicians hadn't the balls to go with mandatory covid passports, they had to water it down so that they could bullshit the complainers with an answer.  LFT is a completely useless measure in terms of outcome because unsupervised LFTs are completely open to being faked.  Now we have to go to the hassle of passports while anyone without a vaccine can just spoof their way with a make believe LFT result if they want a night out or a trip to Costa. Pointless.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 18, 2021, 06:40:19 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 18, 2021, 04:28:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 17, 2021, 06:57:15 PM
So Benny there's two ways of fixing it, full lockdowns till when there's a cure, or let it rip through the community until it dies out.

Which one do you prefer?

Well it looks  like it's ripping through the community rightly at the minute!  I just don't think passports are the answer. I mean, 3/4 people  from different houses could head out for a drink/meal. They may have come in the same car, so they could have spread it then without even the possibility  of spreading it around a booth/table. Yet they get entry no questions asked. And yes,  you might say as they're jabbed, infection won't be as severe. But it's still an infection, and it's still another figure, and 3/4 houses/workplaces/schools etc are now at risk from further spread.  While a passport exists, people feel like they are no danger or not at risk, because it will give them a false sense of protection (like the vaccine), and they won't care as long as they can enter the pub.

And how often on average will someone go out for a drink/meal? Once or twice a week, if that? But how many times have those same People entered other houses without masks during that week? Shared  a car with someone without masks?  Entered shops, worked beside someone?  Hospitality is  minute compared to what is happening on a  wider scale in the community. I've met people in shops who have worn masks,  yet share cars, and enter family/friends houses without masks.  Why do they wear masks in a shop to help protect strangers yet they don't wear them  to protect elderly parents, vulnerable friends/family?

All good points Benny, I'm not arguing with the logic of what you're saying, I'm just saying and it's been proved, being vaccinated reduces your chances of being hospitalised. I'll take a weeks illness or not over possibly struggling to breathe or end up with long Covid.

I keep myself fit healthy and in most cases eat very well, that alone will help me, but if my strain of the virus is stronger because I didn't vaccinate and pass that on to my mother, I'd struggle to live with that, so for me it's simple, we'll continue to follow the guidelines, reduce our time with them and stay away when someone catches it, we've had three in my family get it, nephew, sister,  brother, bar being achy they were ok, double jabbed.

For me that's evidence enough, but I'm not stupid, I'll catch it, I'd rather be prepared for it, if everyone followed the guidelines, sanitise reduce capacity ventilation wear masks we'd be in a far better place even without the vaccine, some people just rage against the machine with no logic
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 18, 2021, 08:14:24 PM
Quote from: highorlow on November 18, 2021, 11:39:28 AM
QuoteI think you are the one spouting lies. In the 26 counties there are around 4000 cases, around 80 go to hospital, but half of these are unvaccinated. So about 1% go to hospital, it was more like 10% at the beginning, so the vaccines are clearly working.

If I'm spouting lies then so are NPHET with their predictions. Philip Nolan has stated that an optimistic future scenario is over 2000 people in hospital and at least 400 in critical care.

If 80 people a day go into hospital now and stay 12 days then 2000 in hospital only implies a doubling of the present number of cases. This does not prove your point.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Man Marker on November 18, 2021, 09:22:26 PM
The absurd theatre of vaccine passports
From magazine issue: 20 November 2021
The absurd theatre of vaccine passports
By Lionel Shriver
The Spectator


When a column highlighting under-appreciated breaking news has had absolutely no impact on the course of events (per usual), the urge to make the same point again is irresistible.

In August, Public Health England released data which shows that vaccination does not appreciably guard against Covid infection and transmission and protection worked out at around 17 per cent for the over-fifties. As I observed then, this would mean the vaxxed and unvaxxed pose a comparable danger to each other. All Covid apartheid schemes are therefore insensible.

Fresher information has fortified this conclusion of the summer. In every age group over 30 in the UK, the rates of Covid infection per 100,000 are now higher among the vaxxed than the unvaxxed. Indeed, in the cohorts aged between 40 and 79, infection rates among the vaccinated are more than twice as high as among the unvaccinated. PHE's fruitlessly rechristened body, the UK Health Security Agency, frantically clarifies that the data 'should not be used to estimate vaccine effectiveness', a caveat which I include for the sake of accuracy. But the differences in the infection rates are drastic enough for you to draw your own conclusions.

As for the comparative contagiousness of each group, the data is mixed. A study published in Nature early last month confirmed PHE's finding that the Covid-positive vaxxed and unvaxxed carry nearly identical viral loads; hence they should be similarly infectious. But viral load turns out to drop more quickly in the vaccinated, making them infectious for a shorter period. The study shows that 'people who become infected with the Delta variant are less likely to pass the virus to their close contacts if they have already had a Covid-19 vaccine than if they haven't'.

The myth of ultra-contagious anti-vaxxers dispersing plague like rats has fostered gratuitous rancour
That's the good news. Now for Nature's bad news: 'But that protective effect is relatively small, and dwindles alarmingly at three months after the receipt of the second shot... Unfortunately, the vaccine's beneficial effect on Delta transmission waned to almost negligible levels over time.' Three months after vaccination, your chances of passing on the Delta variant are 'on par with the likelihood that an unvaccinated person will spread the virus'.

Mercifully, the vaccines' protection from hospitalisation and death is slumping slowly and remains considerable. Stress on healthcare systems and excess deaths are the only reasons Covid is a concern of government.

All this information is in the public domain. Yet due to doublethink, idiocy, mulishness, duplicity, derangement or all of the above, policy-makers are refusing to act on its implications. The absurd theatre of vaccine passports in continental Europe is worse than pointless. Gatekeeping of pleasure palaces promotes the wrong impression — statistically, the lie — that the unvaccinated riff-raff exiled to the pavement pose a far graver threat of communicable disease than the diners in the nearby banquette who, like you, have righteously got the shot. In truth, the double-jabbed airline passenger in 24A can be just as risky a seat-mate as the great unwashed banished from the flight.

Officialdom's stubborn refusal to register that vaccination does not rule out Covid infection or transmission has catastrophic consequences. As England's adult social care sector has more than 100,000 vacancies already, the compulsory sacking of unvaxxed care-home staff could close up to 500 facilities that the nation can't afford to lose. A vaccine mandate for NHS employees will likewise lead to significant staff attrition, when the service also suffers from about 100,000 unfilled jobs.

Stopped for now by the courts, Joe Biden has bullied on with his edict that all American businesses with 100 or more employees require their whole workforce to be vaccinated, or submit to onerous weekly testing, with a whopping $14,000 fine per unvaxxed hire. Austria has just implemented a lockdown for its entire unvaccinated population of two million. Already barred from restaurants, hair salons and cinemas, now these poor pariahs can barely leave the house.

The myth of ultra-contagious anti-vaxxers dispersing plague like rats in the Middle Ages has fostered gratuitous rancour and division. A friend in New York declared recently that she hoped all the unvaccinated would simply die.

By spearheading the vaccine drives, governments have attached themselves to a product. They're implicitly in league with the pharmaceutical industry, not by means of a conspiracy, but because of perceived common interest. Successful vaccine? Successful government. The mainstream media and swaths of the medical establishment have also attached themselves to the product. All these parties are in cahoots to maintain a Manichean social partition: you must be all in, or you're all against. Any appreciation for the risks or limits of vaccines casts you as a dreaded anti-vaxxer. So any feel for nuance makes you stupid. Any short-of-fanatical devotion to the perfect benevolence of vaccines makes you crazy.

Yet the product is a bit of a disappointment. It reduces death and hospitalisation, but can't stop Covid from spreading. The virus continues merrily to sweep through heavily vaccinated populations. What we have here, then, is an advertising problem. The purveyors of products are inclined to overpromise. Adverts for a hair-loss treatment tend to boast not 'Stimulates some minor follicular growth', but rather 'Cures balding!' Having oversold their adopted elixir, governments won't retreat from the cures-balding pitch. 'Won't keep you from getting sick or even from making other people sick, but prevents dying a lot of the time!' makes for a lukewarm slogan.

I'm double-vaccinated — gladly so, on balance. But I've no fear of vaccine virgins. As the medical case for shunning the unvaccinated is unconvincing, vax passports and employment mandates function purely as blackmail. As a judge decreed when staying Biden's edict: 'The mandate's true purpose is not to enhance workplace safety, but instead to ramp up vaccine uptake by any means necessary.'

Much western public health policy is now irrational. Governments need to detach from the product. Instead, they've detached from the facts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: red hander on November 18, 2021, 09:54:16 PM
Yeah, like I'm going to listen to the right wing bullshit of that loyalist terrorist fangirl.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on November 19, 2021, 07:49:38 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 18, 2021, 11:39:28 AM
QuoteI think you are the one spouting lies. In the 26 counties there are around 4000 cases, around 80 go to hospital, but half of these are unvaccinated. So about 1% go to hospital, it was more like 10% at the beginning, so the vaccines are clearly working.

If I'm spouting lies then so are NPHET with their predictions. Philip Nolan has stated that an optimistic future scenario is over 2000 people in hospital and at least 400 in critical care.
You're caught out as a bald faced liar. And you're excuse for lying is that it's alright to lie because you don't agree with NPHET forecasts
😂😂😂
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NAG1 on November 19, 2021, 08:26:11 AM
Wow things have taken a turn for the worse when some one comes in here and is posting The Spectator.

I think when you are turning to that rag it is time to take a look at yourself and maybe just not in relation to Covid either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on November 19, 2021, 09:02:37 AM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40702004.html

Pity this wasn't another tool in the box a long time ago.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2021, 10:40:58 AM
Austria has imposed a full lockdown. I think it has 66% vaccination. We would be 76%
Cases driven by unvaccinated plus delta transmission. Only a matter of time before we get locked down

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/covid-19-austria-lockdown-mandatory-vaccinations-2325501
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 19, 2021, 11:15:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 19, 2021, 10:40:58 AM
Austria has imposed a full lockdown. I think it has 66% vaccination. We would be 76%
Cases driven by unvaccinated plus delta transmission. Only a matter of time before we get locked down

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/covid-19-austria-lockdown-mandatory-vaccinations-2325501

https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/covid19/data/Cases-and-Deaths-by-Vaccination-Status-11082021.pdf

Data here showing that unvaccinated people are 45 times more likely to get infected than vaccinated. It includes all the data from January to October 2021. This is why the Covid passport is necessary, because you are way less likely to have Covid if you've had the jab.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 19, 2021, 11:50:09 AM
Quote from: lenny on November 19, 2021, 11:15:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 19, 2021, 10:40:58 AM
Austria has imposed a full lockdown. I think it has 66% vaccination. We would be 76%
Cases driven by unvaccinated plus delta transmission. Only a matter of time before we get locked down

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/covid-19-austria-lockdown-mandatory-vaccinations-2325501

https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/covid19/data/Cases-and-Deaths-by-Vaccination-Status-11082021.pdf

Data here showing that unvaccinated people are 45 times more likely to get infected than vaccinated. It includes all the data from January to October 2021. This is why the Covid passport is necessary, because you are way less likely to have Covid if you've had the jab.
All the Facebook graduates of "The University of Life" will want to see the data  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 19, 2021, 12:12:26 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 19, 2021, 11:50:09 AM
Quote from: lenny on November 19, 2021, 11:15:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 19, 2021, 10:40:58 AM
Austria has imposed a full lockdown. I think it has 66% vaccination. We would be 76%
Cases driven by unvaccinated plus delta transmission. Only a matter of time before we get locked down

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/covid-19-austria-lockdown-mandatory-vaccinations-2325501

https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/covid19/data/Cases-and-Deaths-by-Vaccination-Status-11082021.pdf

Data here showing that unvaccinated people are 45 times more likely to get infected than vaccinated. It includes all the data from January to October 2021. This is why the Covid passport is necessary, because you are way less likely to have Covid if you've had the jab.
All the Facebook graduates of "The University of Life" will want to see the data  ::)

It's in the link for all to see.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 19, 2021, 12:18:43 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 19, 2021, 11:50:09 AM
Quote from: lenny on November 19, 2021, 11:15:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 19, 2021, 10:40:58 AM
Austria has imposed a full lockdown. I think it has 66% vaccination. We would be 76%
Cases driven by unvaccinated plus delta transmission. Only a matter of time before we get locked down

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/covid-19-austria-lockdown-mandatory-vaccinations-2325501

https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/covid19/data/Cases-and-Deaths-by-Vaccination-Status-11082021.pdf

Data here showing that unvaccinated people are 45 times more likely to get infected than vaccinated. It includes all the data from January to October 2021. This is why the Covid passport is necessary, because you are way less likely to have Covid if you've had the jab.
All the Facebook graduates of "The University of Life" will want to see the data  ::)

Yeah but we should be questioning the science.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on November 19, 2021, 12:46:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 19, 2021, 10:40:58 AM
Austria has imposed a full lockdown. I think it has 66% vaccination. We would be 76%
Cases driven by unvaccinated plus delta transmission. Only a matter of time before we get locked down

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/covid-19-austria-lockdown-mandatory-vaccinations-2325501

Percentage of the eligible population fully vaccinated here (above the age of 12) is 89.24%. The adult only percentage is even higher again.

Austria in comparison has lower percentage than the European average fully vaccinated and going by Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg latest comments this is another desperate attempt to get more fully vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 19, 2021, 12:47:38 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 19, 2021, 11:15:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 19, 2021, 10:40:58 AM
Austria has imposed a full lockdown. I think it has 66% vaccination. We would be 76%
Cases driven by unvaccinated plus delta transmission. Only a matter of time before we get locked down

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/covid-19-austria-lockdown-mandatory-vaccinations-2325501

https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/covid19/data/Cases-and-Deaths-by-Vaccination-Status-11082021.pdf

Data here showing that unvaccinated people are 45 times more likely to get infected than vaccinated. It includes all the data from January to October 2021. This is why the Covid passport is necessary, because you are way less likely to have Covid if you've had the jab.

From the government of Texas no less.

Those bed-wetting, pinko commies! :)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 19, 2021, 01:25:24 PM

Gavan Reilly
@gavreilly
Updated figures from HPSC, for 7 days to last Saturday:

Total ICU admissions 48
of whom 23 fully vaccinated, 5 partly, 20 unvaccinated

Total deaths notified* 45
of whom 41 fully vaccinated, 4 partly, 0 unvaccinated

(* Often include lag, so may reflect deaths occurring earlier)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2021, 01:29:26 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 19, 2021, 01:25:24 PM

Gavan Reilly
@gavreilly
Updated figures from HPSC, for 7 days to last Saturday:

Total ICU admissions 48
of whom 23 fully vaccinated, 5 partly, 20 unvaccinated

Total deaths notified* 45
of whom 41 fully vaccinated, 4 partly, 0 unvaccinated

(* Often include lag, so may reflect deaths occurring earlier)

Have you the rest of the information on that? what age they were what were their underlying conditions and so on please
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on November 19, 2021, 01:49:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2021, 01:29:26 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 19, 2021, 01:25:24 PM

Gavan Reilly
@gavreilly
Updated figures from HPSC, for 7 days to last Saturday:

Total ICU admissions 48
of whom 23 fully vaccinated, 5 partly, 20 unvaccinated

Total deaths notified* 45
of whom 41 fully vaccinated, 4 partly, 0 unvaccinated

(* Often include lag, so may reflect deaths occurring earlier)

Have you the rest of the information on that? what age they were what were their underlying conditions and so on please

Mean age of those who have died is 83 and I can imagine most at that age would have underlying conditions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on November 19, 2021, 02:11:36 PM
One thing that is very clear about Covid19 is some people don't understand stats and data
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 19, 2021, 02:23:23 PM
Case numbers are at record highs in Slovakia, the Netherlands and elsewhere. This reflects the transmissibility of Delta. Hospitalisations and deaths are still percentages of last year.  This reflects vaccination.

Without vaccination the deaths would be piling up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 19, 2021, 02:26:56 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 19, 2021, 02:11:36 PM
One thing that is very clear about Covid19 is some people don't understand stats and data

Many people are careful to not understand stats and data which does not agree with their point of view.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on November 19, 2021, 02:34:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 19, 2021, 02:23:23 PM
Case numbers are at record highs in Slovakia, the Netherlands and elsewhere. This reflects the transmissibility of Delta. Hospitalisations and deaths are still percentages of last year.  This reflects vaccination.

Without vaccination the deaths would be piling up.

Slovakia don't even have 50% of population vaccinated
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on November 19, 2021, 03:32:01 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 19, 2021, 02:11:36 PM
One thing that is very clear about Covid19 is some people don't understand stats and data
110%
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TabClear on November 19, 2021, 04:00:35 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 19, 2021, 01:49:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2021, 01:29:26 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 19, 2021, 01:25:24 PM

Gavan Reilly
@gavreilly
Updated figures from HPSC, for 7 days to last Saturday:

Total ICU admissions 48
of whom 23 fully vaccinated, 5 partly, 20 unvaccinated

Total deaths notified* 45
of whom 41 fully vaccinated, 4 partly, 0 unvaccinated

(* Often include lag, so may reflect deaths occurring earlier)

Have you the rest of the information on that? what age they were what were their underlying conditions and so on please

Mean age of those who have died is 83 and I can imagine most at that age would have underlying conditions.

If thats true (not questioning it btw) and typical across an extended period  it just shows that death stats are pretty irrelevant. Not to downplay the personal impact on individual families but if I make it to 83 I would count myself as having done all right and if Covid is the final straw then so be it.

I would be more interested in what proportion of the ICU beds are taken up by unvaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 04:52:43 PM
Now that we have put categories on those in Hospital should we broaden our horizons.

Heavy Drinkers, smokers and even lazy fat f***s. All these have been taking up ICU beds for years.

Time to stigmatise  them. Show them the errors of their ways!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TabClear on November 19, 2021, 04:59:54 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 04:52:43 PM
Now that we have put categories on those in Hospital should we broaden our horizons.

Heavy Drinkers, smokers and even lazy fat f***s. All these have been taking up ICU beds for years.

Time to stigmatise  them. Show them the errors of their ways!

I was not actually getting at that, it was a genuine question I would be interested in the answer to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 19, 2021, 05:00:40 PM
Quote from: TabClear on November 19, 2021, 04:00:35 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 19, 2021, 01:49:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2021, 01:29:26 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 19, 2021, 01:25:24 PM

Gavan Reilly
@gavreilly
Updated figures from HPSC, for 7 days to last Saturday:

Total ICU admissions 48
of whom 23 fully vaccinated, 5 partly, 20 unvaccinated

Total deaths notified* 45
of whom 41 fully vaccinated, 4 partly, 0 unvaccinated

(* Often include lag, so may reflect deaths occurring earlier)

Have you the rest of the information on that? what age they were what were their underlying conditions and so on please

Mean age of those who have died is 83 and I can imagine most at that age would have underlying conditions.

If thats true (not questioning it btw) and typical across an extended period  it just shows that death stats are pretty irrelevant. Not to downplay the personal impact on individual families but if I make it to 83 I would count myself as having done all right and if Covid is the final straw then so be it.

I would be more interested in what proportion of the ICU beds are taken up by unvaccinated.

I'm sure I read of HSE saying yesterday that 20% of all ICU beds taken up by those ****s.
If they survive they should be billed for the entire cost of treatment, bed occupancy etc!
Maybe their apologists could contribute too!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 19, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 04:52:43 PM
Now that we have put categories on those in Hospital should we broaden our horizons.

Heavy Drinkers, smokers and even lazy fat f***s. All these have been taking up ICU beds for years.

Time to stigmatise  them. Show them the errors of their ways!

Some people have addictive personalities (I'm sure we all have addicts of some nature in our extended families). Some got hooked on their vice of choice at a young age.
Some people are genetically predisposed to be overweight or obese. Some can't afford to eat healthily. And yes, some are just lazy bastards. But they are all, to some extent, stigmatized and have been for years. No too many people are "proud" to be any of those.

But none of those issues can be basically fixed, at least in terms of impact on healthcare resources, with a couple of two-second injections.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 19, 2021, 05:47:34 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 19, 2021, 05:00:40 PM
Quote from: TabClear on November 19, 2021, 04:00:35 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 19, 2021, 01:49:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2021, 01:29:26 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 19, 2021, 01:25:24 PM

Gavan Reilly
@gavreilly
Updated figures from HPSC, for 7 days to last Saturday:

Total ICU admissions 48
of whom 23 fully vaccinated, 5 partly, 20 unvaccinated

Total deaths notified* 45
of whom 41 fully vaccinated, 4 partly, 0 unvaccinated

(* Often include lag, so may reflect deaths occurring earlier)

Have you the rest of the information on that? what age they were what were their underlying conditions and so on please

Mean age of those who have died is 83 and I can imagine most at that age would have underlying conditions.

If thats true (not questioning it btw) and typical across an extended period  it just shows that death stats are pretty irrelevant. Not to downplay the personal impact on individual families but if I make it to 83 I would count myself as having done all right and if Covid is the final straw then so be it.

I would be more interested in what proportion of the ICU beds are taken up by unvaccinated.

I'm sure I read of HSE saying yesterday that 20% of all ICU beds taken up by those ****s.
If they survive they should be billed for the entire cost of treatment, bed occupancy etc!
Maybe their apologists could contribute too!

What about those vaccinated that are in ICU? Who gets the bill for their stay in hospital? Pfizer?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 05:58:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 04:52:43 PM
Now that we have put categories on those in Hospital should we broaden our horizons.

Heavy Drinkers, smokers and even lazy fat f***s. All these have been taking up ICU beds for years.

Time to stigmatise  them. Show them the errors of their ways!

Some people have addictive personalities (I'm sure we all have addicts of some nature in our extended families). Some got hooked on their vice of choice at a young age.
Some people are genetically predisposed to be overweight or obese. Some can't afford to eat healthily. And yes, some are just lazy bastards. But they are all, to some extent, stigmatized and have been for years. No too many people are "proud" to be any of those.

But none of those issues can be basically fixed, at least in terms of impact on healthcare resources, with a couple of two-second injections.

You're having a laugh now!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 19, 2021, 07:17:10 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 05:58:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 04:52:43 PM
Now that we have put categories on those in Hospital should we broaden our horizons.

Heavy Drinkers, smokers and even lazy fat f***s. All these have been taking up ICU beds for years.

Time to stigmatise  them. Show them the errors of their ways!

Some people have addictive personalities (I'm sure we all have addicts of some nature in our extended families). Some got hooked on their vice of choice at a young age.
Some people are genetically predisposed to be overweight or obese. Some can't afford to eat healthily. And yes, some are just lazy bastards. But they are all, to some extent, stigmatized and have been for years. No too many people are "proud" to be any of those.

But none of those issues can be basically fixed, at least in terms of impact on healthcare resources, with a couple of two-second injections.

You're having a laugh now!

Not really.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 19, 2021, 07:56:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 07:17:10 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 05:58:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 04:52:43 PM
Now that we have put categories on those in Hospital should we broaden our horizons.

Heavy Drinkers, smokers and even lazy fat f***s. All these have been taking up ICU beds for years.

Time to stigmatise  them. Show them the errors of their ways!

Some people have addictive personalities (I'm sure we all have addicts of some nature in our extended families). Some got hooked on their vice of choice at a young age.
Some people are genetically predisposed to be overweight or obese. Some can't afford to eat healthily. And yes, some are just lazy bastards. But they are all, to some extent, stigmatized and have been for years. No too many people are "proud" to be any of those.

But none of those issues can be basically fixed, at least in terms of impact on healthcare resources, with a couple of two-second injections.

You're having a laugh now!

Not really.

I could do with losing a few kilos. If there was a 2 second injection that had already been trialled on several hundred million people then I would pay you £1000 to get it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 08:26:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 07:17:10 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 05:58:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 04:52:43 PM
Now that we have put categories on those in Hospital should we broaden our horizons.

Heavy Drinkers, smokers and even lazy fat f***s. All these have been taking up ICU beds for years.

Time to stigmatise  them. Show them the errors of their ways!

Some people have addictive personalities (I'm sure we all have addicts of some nature in our extended families). Some got hooked on their vice of choice at a young age.
Some people are genetically predisposed to be overweight or obese. Some can't afford to eat healthily. And yes, some are just lazy bastards. But they are all, to some extent, stigmatized and have been for years. No too many people are "proud" to be any of those.

But none of those issues can be basically fixed, at least in terms of impact on healthcare resources, with a couple of two-second injections.

You're having a laugh now!

Not really.

It's amazing how single focused we have all got with this Covid lark! Everything has become secondary. Everybody seems to be bought by the Narrative. Nobody challenges a word. There is no argument from the other side on MSM.

If you think this is about a Virus and a Vaccine. You are in for a big shock!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on November 19, 2021, 08:29:10 PM
Heard James O'Brien talking about the anti-everything / conspiracy types and said you know it's easy to mock / laugh etc, but it's ripping some families apart.
Had a conversation with a work colleague today. He mentioned his brother, who would be a very outspoken anti-vax Covid denier. He's been estranged from his family for over a year now. Completely detached. Grand kids don't get to see grand parents etc.. He showed me his brother's Facebook feed. Countless scamdemic, poison etc posts every single day. It must be exhausting. I'll be giving this thread a wide berth from here on. Uppa vaccine!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 19, 2021, 08:32:27 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 08:26:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 07:17:10 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 05:58:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 04:52:43 PM
Now that we have put categories on those in Hospital should we broaden our horizons.

Heavy Drinkers, smokers and even lazy fat f***s. All these have been taking up ICU beds for years.

Time to stigmatise  them. Show them the errors of their ways!

Some people have addictive personalities (I'm sure we all have addicts of some nature in our extended families). Some got hooked on their vice of choice at a young age.
Some people are genetically predisposed to be overweight or obese. Some can't afford to eat healthily. And yes, some are just lazy bastards. But they are all, to some extent, stigmatized and have been for years. No too many people are "proud" to be any of those.

But none of those issues can be basically fixed, at least in terms of impact on healthcare resources, with a couple of two-second injections.

You're having a laugh now!

Not really.

It's amazing how single focused we have all got with this Covid lark! Everything has become secondary. Everybody seems to be bought by the Narrative. Nobody challenges a word. There is no argument from the other side on MSM.

If you think this is about a Virus and a Vaccine. You are in for a big shock!

I think its absolutely about a virus and a vaccine.

What do you think its about?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2021, 08:35:26 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 08:26:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 07:17:10 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 05:58:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 04:52:43 PM
Now that we have put categories on those in Hospital should we broaden our horizons.

Heavy Drinkers, smokers and even lazy fat f***s. All these have been taking up ICU beds for years.

Time to stigmatise  them. Show them the errors of their ways!

Some people have addictive personalities (I'm sure we all have addicts of some nature in our extended families). Some got hooked on their vice of choice at a young age.
Some people are genetically predisposed to be overweight or obese. Some can't afford to eat healthily. And yes, some are just lazy bastards. But they are all, to some extent, stigmatized and have been for years. No too many people are "proud" to be any of those.

But none of those issues can be basically fixed, at least in terms of impact on healthcare resources, with a couple of two-second injections.

You're having a laugh now!

Not really.

It's amazing how single focused we have all got with this Covid lark! Everything has become secondary. Everybody seems to be bought by the Narrative. Nobody challenges a word. There is no argument from the other side on MSM.

If you think this is about a Virus and a Vaccine. You are in for a big shock!

Single focused? You are working? Have you a family? Are you interested in sport?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 08:36:45 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on November 19, 2021, 08:29:10 PM
Heard James O'Brien talking about the anti-everything / conspiracy types and said you know it's easy to mock / laugh etc, but it's ripping some families apart.
Had a conversation with a work colleague today. He mentioned his brother, who would be a very outspoken anti-vax Covid denier. He's been estranged from his family for over a year now. Completely detached. Grand kids don't get to see grand parents etc.. He showed me his brother's Facebook feed. Countless scamdemic, poison etc posts every single day. It must be exhausting. I'll be giving this thread a wide berth from here on. Uppa vaccine!

You have to believe there are a lot out there! I know, I talk to them everyday. Most won't say in open what they really feel. But they know that something is not right or add up!

They come from all walks of life. They see what is going on and how people are being controlled by fear and conformity. The Republic has spent 40bn on this in 18 months. We are going to be hostage to some one when this all comes to a halt or when the penny drops.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 19, 2021, 08:43:26 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 08:36:45 PM

The Republic has spent 40bn on this in 18 months. We are going to be hostage to some one when this all comes to a halt or when the penny drops.

We are lucky has €40Bn and what else would you do with money except preserve health?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 08:49:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 19, 2021, 08:43:26 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 08:36:45 PM

The Republic has spent 40bn on this in 18 months. We are going to be hostage to some one when this all comes to a halt or when the penny drops.

We are lucky has €40Bn and what else would you do with money except preserve health?

Comedy Gold! You really are being fooled by all this? Not much seems to have been spent on the Irish Health system in the Republic. Most of that money was spent on getting people to conform and to keeping them in that frame of mind.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 19, 2021, 09:11:19 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 08:49:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 19, 2021, 08:43:26 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 08:36:45 PM

The Republic has spent 40bn on this in 18 months. We are going to be hostage to some one when this all comes to a halt or when the penny drops.

We are lucky has €40Bn and what else would you do with money except preserve health?

Comedy Gold! You really are being fooled by all this? Not much seems to have been spent on the Irish Health system in the Republic. Most of that money was spent on getting people to conform and to keeping them in that frame of mind.

Quite a bit was spent on the health service, but most was on PUP payments and the like. You cannot expand your health service greatly because you cannot conjure up more staff, especially when every other country is looking for staff also. But then you know all this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 19, 2021, 09:14:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 19, 2021, 09:11:19 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 08:49:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 19, 2021, 08:43:26 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 08:36:45 PM

The Republic has spent 40bn on this in 18 months. We are going to be hostage to some one when this all comes to a halt or when the penny drops.

We are lucky has €40Bn and what else would you do with money except preserve health?

Comedy Gold! You really are being fooled by all this? Not much seems to have been spent on the Irish Health system in the Republic. Most of that money was spent on getting people to conform and to keeping them in that frame of mind.

Quite a bit was spent on the health service, but most was on PUP payments and the like. You cannot expand your health service greatly because you cannot conjure up more staff, especially when every other country is looking for staff also. But then you know all this.

The free state fg/ff (baskets hoors that they are) increased ICU bed numbers during pandemic.

SF/Dup- feck all
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 19, 2021, 09:23:19 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 08:49:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 19, 2021, 08:43:26 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 08:36:45 PM

The Republic has spent 40bn on this in 18 months. We are going to be hostage to some one when this all comes to a halt or when the penny drops.

We are lucky has €40Bn and what else would you do with money except preserve health?

Who's doing this and what's the objective? It's not about a virus? What is it about? Help us understand please.
Comedy Gold! You really are being fooled by all this? Not much seems to have been spent on the Irish Health system in the Republic. Most of that money was spent on getting people to conform and to keeping them in that frame of mind.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 09:45:53 PM
COPIED AND PASTED:    EXCELLENT REASONING -


''Of all the vaccines I have taken in my life like tetanus, measles, mumps, polio, meningitis, TB shots, etc...
Never have I heard so many lies and deceptions over a vaccine that says I have to wear a mask and socially distance even when fully vaccinated, and that I could still contract or spread the virus even after being fully vaccinated.
Never before had to get tested when I was perfectly healthy without any symptoms whatsoever.
Never been bribed by the establishments to take the vaccine in order to win a holiday and/or cash prizes or earn frequent flyer points.
I never had to worry about cardiac issues, neurological disorders, blood clots and sadly more! Didn't have to worry about death.
Never was I ever THREATENED by the use of FORCE by the Government, Employers, Police force, and Military for a vaccine, as seen overseas.
I was never judged by my friends or relatives if I didn't take it. I was never discriminated against for travel or other regular services to the point where I could not buy or sell without it.
The vaccines I listed earlier never told me I was a bad person for not taking them, or for even taking them for that matter.
I have never seen a vaccine that threatened the relationship between my family members and/or close friends to the point of destroying my relationships with them.
Never have I seen them used for political gain.
I have never seen a vaccine needing 24/7 mass media advertising and promotion on every media outlet known to man.
Then there's mixing and matching different vaccine brands and being told it's okay to do it one day and then told the next day not to do it (overseas).
I have never seen a vaccine threaten someone's livelihood, as well as wipe out their job.
I have never seen a vaccine that allows a 12-year-old child's consent to supersede their parent's consent (that one alone blows me away).
Finally, after all the vaccines I listed above, I have never seen a vaccine like this one, that discriminates, divides, and judges a society. So much information about it is censored, deleted, and removed from the internet and mainstream media.
So many doctors, health care professionals, police and scientists are censored and forbidden to speak out or ask legitimate questions when what is being allowed or not allowed does not make sense! Particularly when it comes from mainstream media.
I have never known a vaccine that has made all the Pharmaceutical companies that manufacture it exempt from liability if it kills, where no life insurance will cover it.
This is one powerful vaccine guys! It does all these things, and yet, it does NOT do the one thing it is supposed to do, which is FIGHT OFF THIS PANDEMIC".   
Author unknown.      End of quote.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on November 19, 2021, 10:00:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 08:32:27 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 08:26:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 07:17:10 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 05:58:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 04:52:43 PM
Now that we have put categories on those in Hospital should we broaden our horizons.

Heavy Drinkers, smokers and even lazy fat f***s. All these have been taking up ICU beds for years.

Time to stigmatise  them. Show them the errors of their ways!

Some people have addictive personalities (I'm sure we all have addicts of some nature in our extended families). Some got hooked on their vice of choice at a young age.
Some people are genetically predisposed to be overweight or obese. Some can't afford to eat healthily. And yes, some are just lazy bastards. But they are all, to some extent, stigmatized and have been for years. No too many people are "proud" to be any of those.

But none of those issues can be basically fixed, at least in terms of impact on healthcare resources, with a couple of two-second injections.

You're having a laugh now!

Not really.

It's amazing how single focused we have all got with this Covid lark! Everything has become secondary. Everybody seems to be bought by the Narrative. Nobody challenges a word. There is no argument from the other side on MSM.

If you think this is about a Virus and a Vaccine. You are in for a big shock!

I think its absolutely about a virus and a vaccine.

What do you think its about?

Control? The Introduction of a digital health certification system and later a social credit system or version of?
       
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 19, 2021, 10:07:25 PM
1690 cases in the 6 counties!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 10:14:20 PM
Quote from: grounded on November 19, 2021, 10:00:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 08:32:27 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 08:26:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 07:17:10 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 05:58:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 04:52:43 PM
Now that we have put categories on those in Hospital should we broaden our horizons.

Heavy Drinkers, smokers and even lazy fat f***s. All these have been taking up ICU beds for years.

Time to stigmatise  them. Show them the errors of their ways!

Some people have addictive personalities (I'm sure we all have addicts of some nature in our extended families). Some got hooked on their vice of choice at a young age.
Some people are genetically predisposed to be overweight or obese. Some can't afford to eat healthily. And yes, some are just lazy bastards. But they are all, to some extent, stigmatized and have been for years. No too many people are "proud" to be any of those.

But none of those issues can be basically fixed, at least in terms of impact on healthcare resources, with a couple of two-second injections.

You're having a laugh now!

Not really.

It's amazing how single focused we have all got with this Covid lark! Everything has become secondary. Everybody seems to be bought by the Narrative. Nobody challenges a word. There is no argument from the other side on MSM.

If you think this is about a Virus and a Vaccine. You are in for a big shock!

I think its absolutely about a virus and a vaccine.

What do you think its about?

Control? The Introduction of a digital health certification system and later a social credit system or version of?
     

That's the guts of it. There is a Roller-coaster of stuff planned for us.

The main thing is for to get the conformity sorted out. Anyone who strays from the Narrative will be belittled and treated as an outcast.

Most of this will be done (unwittingly) by peers!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2021, 10:20:29 PM
I thought the season for mushrooms was over, someone has a secret stash
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 19, 2021, 10:29:47 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 10:14:20 PM
Quote from: grounded on November 19, 2021, 10:00:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 08:32:27 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 08:26:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 07:17:10 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 05:58:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 04:52:43 PM
Now that we have put categories on those in Hospital should we broaden our horizons.

Heavy Drinkers, smokers and even lazy fat f***s. All these have been taking up ICU beds for years.

Time to stigmatise  them. Show them the errors of their ways!

Some people have addictive personalities (I'm sure we all have addicts of some nature in our extended families). Some got hooked on their vice of choice at a young age.
Some people are genetically predisposed to be overweight or obese. Some can't afford to eat healthily. And yes, some are just lazy bastards. But they are all, to some extent, stigmatized and have been for years. No too many people are "proud" to be any of those.

But none of those issues can be basically fixed, at least in terms of impact on healthcare resources, with a couple of two-second injections.

You're having a laugh now!

Not really.

It's amazing how single focused we have all got with this Covid lark! Everything has become secondary. Everybody seems to be bought by the Narrative. Nobody challenges a word. There is no argument from the other side on MSM.

If you think this is about a Virus and a Vaccine. You are in for a big shock!

I think its absolutely about a virus and a vaccine.

What do you think its about?

Control? The Introduction of a digital health certification system and later a social credit system or version of?
     

That's the guts of it. There is a Roller-coaster of stuff planned for us.

The main thing is for to get the conformity sorted out. Anyone who strays from the Narrative will be belittled and treated as an outcast.

Most of this will be done (unwittingly) by peers!

LOL,  who's got all this stuff planned? All the governments round the world have ganged up with big pharma and all the doctors round the world so that we can be controlled. Who else is in on it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 19, 2021, 10:40:06 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 19, 2021, 10:29:47 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 10:14:20 PM
Quote from: grounded on November 19, 2021, 10:00:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 08:32:27 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 08:26:38 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 07:17:10 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 05:58:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 19, 2021, 05:28:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 19, 2021, 04:52:43 PM
Now that we have put categories on those in Hospital should we broaden our horizons.

Heavy Drinkers, smokers and even lazy fat f***s. All these have been taking up ICU beds for years.

Time to stigmatise  them. Show them the errors of their ways!

Some people have addictive personalities (I'm sure we all have addicts of some nature in our extended families). Some got hooked on their vice of choice at a young age.
Some people are genetically predisposed to be overweight or obese. Some can't afford to eat healthily. And yes, some are just lazy bastards. But they are all, to some extent, stigmatized and have been for years. No too many people are "proud" to be any of those.

But none of those issues can be basically fixed, at least in terms of impact on healthcare resources, with a couple of two-second injections.

You're having a laugh now!

Not really.

It's amazing how single focused we have all got with this Covid lark! Everything has become secondary. Everybody seems to be bought by the Narrative. Nobody challenges a word. There is no argument from the other side on MSM.

If you think this is about a Virus and a Vaccine. You are in for a big shock!

I think its absolutely about a virus and a vaccine.

What do you think its about?

Control? The Introduction of a digital health certification system and later a social credit system or version of?
     

That's the guts of it. There is a Roller-coaster of stuff planned for us.

The main thing is for to get the conformity sorted out. Anyone who strays from the Narrative will be belittled and treated as an outcast.

Most of this will be done (unwittingly) by peers!

LOL,  who's got all this stuff planned? All the governments round the world have ganged up with big pharma and all the doctors round the world so that we can be controlled. Who else is in on it?
Some anti vax chaps tells me It's a serious operation led by a class of global elites such as Bill Gates.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on November 19, 2021, 10:43:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2021, 10:20:29 PM
I thought the season for mushrooms was over, someone has a secret stash

I suppose its almost as unbelievable as a western democratic country intoducing mandatory vaccination for their entire population. Roll on the mushrooms
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2021, 11:00:27 PM
Quote from: grounded on November 19, 2021, 10:43:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2021, 10:20:29 PM
I thought the season for mushrooms was over, someone has a secret stash

I suppose its almost as unbelievable as a western democratic country intoducing mandatory vaccination for their entire population. Roll on the mushrooms

We've been introducing mandatory measures for years, but you don't have to get the vaccine, it's not Austria.... Yet  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on November 19, 2021, 11:07:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2021, 11:00:27 PM
Quote from: grounded on November 19, 2021, 10:43:25 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2021, 10:20:29 PM
I thought the season for mushrooms was over, someone has a secret stash

I suppose its almost as unbelievable as a western democratic country intoducing mandatory vaccination for their entire population. Roll on the mushrooms

We've been introducing mandatory measures for years, but you don't have to get the vaccine, it's not Austria.... Yet  ;)

So out of interest are you in favour of mandatory covid 19 vaccination for the population here?
     What measures would you support in order to encourage people that have so far not participated in the vaccination programme?
     Sorry for the questions but genuinely interested? (Btw i have had my 2 doses not due the booster until january).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2021, 11:36:15 PM
Very simple for me, my job is in contact with vulnerable people, if I caught Covid and passed it on and someone ended up infected by me not getting vaccinated then I'd be in the wrong and feel pretty shut about it to, my sister is just out of cancer treatment another good reason for me.

The facts have been shown that being vaccinated, regardless of the amount it was promised to protect us, will reduced the viral load.

People do what they want, you can wear ear plugs if you work in a noisy environment or not, rest assured you'll regret it later.

I've followed the guidelines as has my immediate family, to date we haven't got it, we've been working and socialising without annoyance either.

As for measures to encourage people, do what you feel is right for you. I'll follow my path, I haven't got a degree in virology or biochemistry, so on that front I'll listen to the experts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on November 19, 2021, 11:38:00 PM
"Sweden now has the lowest Covid infection rate in western Europe — after double-vaccinated nationals were told they don't have to test for the virus even if they get symptoms.

The Scandinavian nation — which was subject to international scrutiny last year when it refused to lockdown — is currently recording 85.4 cases per million people, according to Oxford University research site Our World in Data.

By comparison, the rate is nearly 1,400 per million in Europe's current Covid capital Austria, which today announced it is going back into a full lockdown from Monday.

Sweden's infection rate is far lower than other Western European countries like the Netherlands (1,048.7), Britain (581), Germany (536), and France (201)." https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/sweden-now-has-western-europe-s-lowest-covid-infection-rate/ar-AAQU25q
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2021, 11:43:24 PM
Would Sweden's rate be lower due to the high rate they had at the start when going for herd immunity?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 20, 2021, 12:02:38 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 19, 2021, 11:38:00 PM
"Sweden now has the lowest Covid infection rate in western Europe — after double-vaccinated nationals were told they don't have to test for the virus even if they get symptoms.

The Scandinavian nation — which was subject to international scrutiny last year when it refused to lockdown — is currently recording 85.4 cases per million people, according to Oxford University research site Our World in Data.

By comparison, the rate is nearly 1,400 per million in Europe's current Covid capital Austria, which today announced it is going back into a full lockdown from Monday.

Sweden's infection rate is far lower than other Western European countries like the Netherlands (1,048.7), Britain (581), Germany (536), and France (201)." https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/sweden-now-has-western-europe-s-lowest-covid-infection-rate/ar-AAQU25q

They've now reversed the decision not to test double vaccinated people. They're also bringing in a covid pass (It's already been in use for travel ).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on November 20, 2021, 12:24:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2021, 11:36:15 PM
Very simple for me, my job is in contact with vulnerable people, if I caught Covid and passed it on and someone ended up infected by me not getting vaccinated then I'd be in the wrong and feel pretty shut about it to, my sister is just out of cancer treatment another good reason for me.

The facts have been shown that being vaccinated, regardless of the amount it was promised to protect us, will reduced the viral load.

People do what they want, you can wear ear plugs if you work in a noisy environment or not, rest assured you'll regret it later.

I've followed the guidelines as has my immediate family, to date we haven't got it, we've been working and socialising without annoyance either.

As for measures to encourage people, do what you feel is right for you. I'll follow my path, I haven't got a degree in virology or biochemistry, so on that front I'll listen to the experts.

All very reasonable and i hope all your folks and particularly your sister keep well. Actually in many ways your circumstances  are very similar to my own and the reasons i opted for the vaccine.
    Unfortunately this topic has become very polarising and poisonous (you just have to read through this thread!)
    It seems to me, anybody that questions vaccine effectivemess, lockdown restrictions or other government policies are labelled loons and subject to ridicule(some definitely deserve it btw).
      The lancet published an article on the use of first generation covid 19 vaccines (this was pre-release of these vaccines) and indicated their potential limitations. I think this is a more realistic marker or level than that given by the Pharma manufacturers pre their release.
        They are definitley a useful tool in the fight against this virus but given the nature of Coronaviruses they are not the panacea promised (at least not this generation).
        I don't agree with the current witch hunt of the non-vaccinated through government policies or the media. Its counterproductive. Like you said give the people the information and let them decide. Stop trying to coerce people or heaven forbid bring in mandatory vaccinations.
     Anyway, once again i hope you and your family keep well and best wishes to your sister on her recovery.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 20, 2021, 12:48:56 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2021, 11:36:15 PM
Very simple for me, my job is in contact with vulnerable people, if I caught Covid and passed it on and someone ended up infected by me not getting vaccinated then I'd be in the wrong and feel pretty shut about it to, my sister is just out of cancer treatment another good reason for me.

The facts have been shown that being vaccinated, regardless of the amount it was promised to protect us, will reduced the viral load.

People do what they want, you can wear ear plugs if you work in a noisy environment or not, rest assured you'll regret it later.

I've followed the guidelines as has my immediate family, to date we haven't got it, we've been working and socialising without annoyance either.

As for measures to encourage people, do what you feel is right for you. I'll follow my path, I haven't got a degree in virology or biochemistry, so on that front I'll listen to the experts.

I thought you said your youngster was never at home from all that partying ?  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on November 20, 2021, 12:58:58 AM
Question for those from the 6 counties here ... am I alone in being confused ref. when and where to get a booster jab?  I hear on the news its now available to 40+ age group, but when I read the NIdirect website, it still states 50+.  Surely the mass vaccinations centres that took over leisure centres etc. and did a fantastic job in vaccinating the masses, should be opened again to give anyone a top up who needs it.

I'm now 6 months from second jab, would kind of like to get the booster soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 20, 2021, 01:00:27 AM
Quote from: grounded on November 20, 2021, 12:24:18 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 19, 2021, 11:36:15 PM
Very simple for me, my job is in contact with vulnerable people, if I caught Covid and passed it on and someone ended up infected by me not getting vaccinated then I'd be in the wrong and feel pretty shut about it to, my sister is just out of cancer treatment another good reason for me.

The facts have been shown that being vaccinated, regardless of the amount it was promised to protect us, will reduced the viral load.

People do what they want, you can wear ear plugs if you work in a noisy environment or not, rest assured you'll regret it later.

I've followed the guidelines as has my immediate family, to date we haven't got it, we've been working and socialising without annoyance either.

As for measures to encourage people, do what you feel is right for you. I'll follow my path, I haven't got a degree in virology or biochemistry, so on that front I'll listen to the experts.

All very reasonable and i hope all your folks and particularly your sister keep well. Actually in many ways your circumstances  are very similar to my own and the reasons i opted for the vaccine.
    Unfortunately this topic has become very polarising and poisonous (you just have to read through this thread!)
    It seems to me, anybody that questions vaccine effectivemess, lockdown restrictions or other government policies are labelled loons and subject to ridicule(some definitely deserve it btw).
      The lancet published an article on the use of first generation covid 19 vaccines (this was pre-release of these vaccines) and indicated their potential limitations. I think this is a more realistic marker or level than that given by the Pharma manufacturers pre their release.
        They are definitley a useful tool in the fight against this virus but given the nature of Coronaviruses they are not the panacea promised (at least not this generation).
        I don't agree with the current witch hunt of the non-vaccinated through government policies or the media. Its counterproductive. Like you said give the people the information and let them decide. Stop trying to coerce people or heaven forbid bring in mandatory vaccinations.
     Anyway, once again i hope you and your family keep well and best wishes to your sister on her recovery.

Yeah I agree. It sends out the message that unvaccinated are all running about like mad loons, adhering to no guidance. While the jabbed are all doing the right things.

Not only that but this reporting that all those in hospital and taking up the icu beds are all Unvaccinated. Which then gives the vaccinated another false sense of protection. Ah sure we're alright, we don't have to be careful, sure it's only the unvaccinated who are in danger

But isn't it awful good of governments to go to such lengths to care about whether Tom Dick and Harry are vaccinated. They're terribly concerned about our healths, that they'll go to extreme lengths to keep us all safe. And we really haven't seen nothing yet. Covid passports in hospitality are only the beginning. Expect to see Austria-type situation upcoming. Singapore are refusing medical treatment to unvaccinated and the big supermarkets already have  covid passports in place ready to go, even though they've not law yet

But nothing unusual about all that. They only want what's best for me and you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 20, 2021, 01:02:16 AM
You highlighted the first part but didn't highlight were I said working and socialising without annoyance? Is that the problem with ones who are blinded?

The guidelines are simple here, you are allowed out, providing you follow the guidelines, if that changes she'll follow suit, she's double jabbed, her decision. She's opinionated but, makes her own decisions in life also.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 20, 2021, 01:05:19 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on November 20, 2021, 12:58:58 AM
Question for those from the 6 counties here ... am I alone in being confused ref. when and where to get a booster jab?  I hear on the news its now available to 40+ age group, but when I read the NIdirect website, it still states 50+.  Surely the mass vaccinations centres that took over leisure centres etc. and did a fantastic job in vaccinating the masses, should be opened again to give anyone a top up who needs it.

I'm now 6 months from second jab, would kind of like to get the booster soon.

I'm not 50 yet, (month and a half ffs) booster this Sunday, I was double jabbed early doors, so bit later for me with booster.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on November 20, 2021, 01:51:19 AM
I respect the pressures that people have with elderly and medically vulnerable family/friends. These are the people under threat. who could die. No matter what our beliefs are, no one should be scapegoated, frowned upon or isolated from their community. The unvaxxed have to accept the fact that people willingly decided to take an experimental drug by their own free will that has no recourse. And that does not make them a lesser person in society.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 20, 2021, 02:02:29 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 20, 2021, 01:51:19 AM
I respect the pressures that people have with elderly and medically vulnerable family/friends. These are the people under threat. who could die. No matter what our beliefs are, no one should be scapegoated, frowned upon or isolated from their community. The unvaxxed have to accept the fact that people willingly decided to take an experimental drug by their own free will that has no recourse. And that does not make them a lesser person in society.

::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 20, 2021, 02:54:07 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 20, 2021, 01:51:19 AM
I respect the pressures that people have with elderly and medically vulnerable family/friends. These are the people under threat. who could die. No matter what our beliefs are, no one should be scapegoated, frowned upon or isolated from their community. The unvaxxed have to accept the fact that people willingly decided to take an experimental drug by their own free will that has no recourse. And that does not make them a lesser person in society.

Indeed people will die because their neighbours and even their own family don't give a damn and a two second injection is too much trouble for them.
I hope their consciences pay them back.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2021, 05:56:52 AM
Austria is worth looking at for 2 reasons
-Tolerance of the antivax position is over.
- Lockdown is back

https://www.ft.com/content/acaa677d-807e-49c2-806a-3411c6c065a5


 

 "But we have too many political forces, flimsy vaccine sceptics and spreaders of fake news in this country . . . despite campaigns [too many] people have still not been vaccinated,"  
The consequence of allowing vaccine resistance to continue, said Schallenberg, was "endless human suffering" 

It will be the same across the EU. Frontline staff are exhausted. Antivax is a luxury we can no longer afford
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2021, 06:07:33 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/paul-cullen-this-wave-of-the-virus-like-the-others-will-pass-1.4733501Last year, every 1,000 cases resulted in about 50 people needing to go to hospital. Primary vaccination saw this decrease to 30-35, according to the National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet).

The ratio has now fallen further, to 15-20 admissions per 1,000 cases.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on November 20, 2021, 07:19:12 AM
Quote from: highorlow on November 19, 2021, 11:38:00 PM
"Sweden now has the lowest Covid infection rate in western Europe — after double-vaccinated nationals were told they don't have to test for the virus even if they get symptoms.

The Scandinavian nation — which was subject to international scrutiny last year when it refused to lockdown — is currently recording 85.4 cases per million people, according to Oxford University research site Our World in Data.

By comparison, the rate is nearly 1,400 per million in Europe's current Covid capital Austria, which today announced it is going back into a full lockdown from Monday.

Sweden's infection rate is far lower than other Western European countries like the Netherlands (1,048.7), Britain (581), Germany (536), and France (201)." https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/sweden-now-has-western-europe-s-lowest-covid-infection-rate/ar-AAQU25q

Sweden is using  Donald Trump's idea in how to keep numbers down - stop testing people!

From the article:
'Sweden is currently carrying out just 1.26 tests per 1,000 people, the lowest number in western Europe. For comparison, the UK is carrying out 12 times more swabs, Austria 47 times more, and France almost four times more.'

Also from the article:
'Sweden will impose further restrictions from December 1 requiring everyone attending events of more than 100 people to show proof they are double-vaccinated.

Officials have warned more Covid restrictions may be needed this winter.

Although Sweden chose not to lock down completely early in the pandemic, it did introduce stricter legally-binding curbs last winter as cases and deaths rose."


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on November 20, 2021, 07:27:16 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 20, 2021, 01:05:19 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on November 20, 2021, 12:58:58 AM
Question for those from the 6 counties here ... am I alone in being confused ref. when and where to get a booster jab?  I hear on the news its now available to 40+ age group, but when I read the NIdirect website, it still states 50+.  Surely the mass vaccinations centres that took over leisure centres etc. and did a fantastic job in vaccinating the masses, should be opened again to give anyone a top up who needs it.

I'm now 6 months from second jab, would kind of like to get the booster soon.

I'm not 50 yet, (month and a half ffs) booster this Sunday, I was double jabbed early doors, so bit later for me with booster.
I think you can book a pharmacy appointment, and they will be doing a big push in two weekends' time. I mean for 40+ year olds - there was a pharmacist on Radio Ulster yesterday morn talking about it. Check NI Direct for pharmacies who are taking part.
I got the booster this wk as I'm pregnant - my surgery did a big session at the home of the Armagh champs, Clann Eireann. They just called me up - they must have had spares as pregnancy doesn't really entitle you to get the booster earlier than anyone else.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: charlieTully on November 20, 2021, 10:54:18 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on November 20, 2021, 12:58:58 AM
Question for those from the 6 counties here ... am I alone in being confused ref. when and where to get a booster jab?  I hear on the news its now available to 40+ age group, but when I read the NIdirect website, it still states 50+.  Surely the mass vaccinations centres that took over leisure centres etc. and did a fantastic job in vaccinating the masses, should be opened again to give anyone a top up who needs it.

I'm now 6 months from second jab, would kind of like to get the booster soon.

My Mrs 46. Got a call from gp surgery to go over Monday for it. I'd guess you won't have to wait too long.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 20, 2021, 12:21:51 PM
Apparently 40+ can now get it in the likes of boots. (Administered and free).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 20, 2021, 06:14:51 PM
5,959 in the 26 counties, the highest since 10 January. And 1,846 in the 6 counties which is only marginally better.
People need to chill a bit before Xmas.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 20, 2021, 06:28:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 20, 2021, 12:21:51 PM
Apparently 40+ can now get it in the likes of boots. (Administered and free).

Royal and Ulster hospital doing walk ins for 40-49 yr olds. Got mine at the Royal this morning.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 20, 2021, 06:32:34 PM
It has to be 6+ months after vaccination doesn't it??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 20, 2021, 06:42:46 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 20, 2021, 06:32:34 PM
It has to be 6+ months after vaccination doesn't it??
Yes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 20, 2021, 06:44:01 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 20, 2021, 06:28:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 20, 2021, 12:21:51 PM
Apparently 40+ can now get it in the likes of boots. (Administered and free).

Royal and Ulster hospital doing walk ins for 40-49 yr olds. Got mine at the Royal this morning.
What flavour did you get? The missus doesn't want Moderna for some reason  ::) :-X, which is what the pharmacies are dishing out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on November 20, 2021, 06:47:15 PM
https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/2/frontlinenews/500-increase-in-sudden-cardiac-and-unexplained-deaths-among-fifa-athletes-in-2021/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 20, 2021, 06:48:15 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 20, 2021, 06:44:01 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 20, 2021, 06:28:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 20, 2021, 12:21:51 PM
Apparently 40+ can now get it in the likes of boots. (Administered and free).

Royal and Ulster hospital doing walk ins for 40-49 yr olds. Got mine at the Royal this morning.
What flavour did you get? The missus doesn't want Moderna for some reason  ::) :-X, which is what the pharmacies are dishing out.

Pfizer. Hospitals only ones able to store phizer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 20, 2021, 06:55:57 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 20, 2021, 06:44:01 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 20, 2021, 06:28:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 20, 2021, 12:21:51 PM
Apparently 40+ can now get it in the likes of boots. (Administered and free).

Royal and Ulster hospital doing walk ins for 40-49 yr olds. Got mine at the Royal this morning.
What flavour did you get? The missus doesn't want Moderna for some reason  ::) :-X, which is what the pharmacies are dishing out.

The original Moderna was actually slightly better, the booster is a half dose, as far a I know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 20, 2021, 07:04:43 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 20, 2021, 06:47:15 PM
https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/2/frontlinenews/500-increase-in-sudden-cardiac-and-unexplained-deaths-among-fifa-athletes-in-2021/

That's interesting and it shows how dangerous covid is. I've heard of several people who've had an extremely mild/asymptomatic case of covid but several months later have had severe heart problems including one with heart failure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2021, 07:07:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2021, 06:14:51 PM
5,959 in the 26 counties, the highest since 10 January. And 1,846 in the 6 counties which is only marginally better.
People need to chill a bit before Xmas.
It's exponential
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 20, 2021, 07:11:37 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 20, 2021, 07:04:43 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 20, 2021, 06:47:15 PM
https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/2/frontlinenews/500-increase-in-sudden-cardiac-and-unexplained-deaths-among-fifa-athletes-in-2021/

That's interesting and it shows how dangerous covid is. I've heard of several people who've had an extremely mild/asymptomatic case of covid but several months later have had severe heart problems including one with heart failure.
That's the vaccine  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 20, 2021, 07:15:01 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2021, 06:55:57 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 20, 2021, 06:44:01 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 20, 2021, 06:28:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 20, 2021, 12:21:51 PM
Apparently 40+ can now get it in the likes of boots. (Administered and free).

Royal and Ulster hospital doing walk ins for 40-49 yr olds. Got mine at the Royal this morning.
What flavour did you get? The missus doesn't want Moderna for some reason  ::) :-X, which is what the pharmacies are dishing out.

The original Moderna was actually slightly better, the booster is a half dose, as far a I know.

Yet according to Luke O'Neill , it will last 2-3 years  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 20, 2021, 07:20:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 20, 2021, 06:55:57 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 20, 2021, 06:44:01 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on November 20, 2021, 06:28:11 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 20, 2021, 12:21:51 PM
Apparently 40+ can now get it in the likes of boots. (Administered and free).

Royal and Ulster hospital doing walk ins for 40-49 yr olds. Got mine at the Royal this morning.
What flavour did you get? The missus doesn't want Moderna for some reason  ::) :-X, which is what the pharmacies are dishing out.

The original Moderna was actually slightly better, the booster is a half dose, as far a I know.

The half dose booster still gives excellent protection but it minimises the side effects. The full moderna vaccine had strong side effects and affected people for a couple of days. Apparently with the half dose you have very few after effects. I'm hoping to get it in a few weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on November 20, 2021, 07:27:33 PM
I'd have thought there would be a continuation of what was given previously. For example if you got Moderna jabbed, you'd get Moderna booster.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 20, 2021, 07:28:51 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 20, 2021, 07:27:33 PM
I'd have thought there would be a continuation of what was given previously. For example if you got Moderna jabbed, you'd get Moderna booster.

Mix of vaccines gives better results in studies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 20, 2021, 08:44:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 20, 2021, 07:28:51 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 20, 2021, 07:27:33 PM
I'd have thought there would be a continuation of what was given previously. For example if you got Moderna jabbed, you'd get Moderna booster.

Mix of vaccines gives better results in studies.

With the delta variant being more dangerous I think the anti vaxxers are a dying breed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 20, 2021, 08:59:06 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 20, 2021, 08:44:10 PM
With the delta variant being more dangerous I think the anti vaxxers are a dying breed.

Probably around 97% more likely to be a dying breed anyway.


*based on ~32 times more likely to die of COVID if you aren't vaccinated (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19byvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween2januaryand24september2021) (vs. if you are vaccinated)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 20, 2021, 09:01:45 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 20, 2021, 08:44:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 20, 2021, 07:28:51 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on November 20, 2021, 07:27:33 PM
I'd have thought there would be a continuation of what was given previously. For example if you got Moderna jabbed, you'd get Moderna booster.

Mix of vaccines gives better results in studies.

With the delta variant being more dangerous I think the anti vaxxers are a dying breed.
So do I. I think that Delta is why Austria made vaccination compulsory.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on November 20, 2021, 09:49:09 PM
Depends how you define someone who is Covid fully vaccinated. Double jabbed after 4 or 6 months. The experts don't seem to know. Started off with take the vaccine from the same manufacturer now mix them up. Maybe Philip Nolan will suggest taking the 8th booster with snake oil.
Disappointing to see lads taking pleasure in people dying of Covid regardless of their beliefs, not surprising all the same. Society has largely taken a turn for the worse since the advent of anonymity on social media. I did quite a bit of contract work in the States in my younger years, I loved it for its scenic beauty. The people were a different story, very polarized & intolerant, unfortunately Ireland is heading the same direction. Really not good.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on November 20, 2021, 10:29:28 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 20, 2021, 06:47:15 PM
https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/2/frontlinenews/500-increase-in-sudden-cardiac-and-unexplained-deaths-among-fifa-athletes-in-2021/

If that is where you are getting your news from......

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/11/scicheck-japan-continues-to-use-vaccines-not-ivermectin-to-fight-covid-19/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 20, 2021, 10:38:20 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 20, 2021, 10:29:28 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 20, 2021, 06:47:15 PM
https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/2/frontlinenews/500-increase-in-sudden-cardiac-and-unexplained-deaths-among-fifa-athletes-in-2021/

If that is where you are getting your news from......

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/11/scicheck-japan-continues-to-use-vaccines-not-ivermectin-to-fight-covid-19/
These lads don't believe the MSM but love an oul conspiracy website passed off as fact.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on November 20, 2021, 10:42:19 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 20, 2021, 10:29:28 PM
Quote from: Rudi on November 20, 2021, 06:47:15 PM
https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/2/frontlinenews/500-increase-in-sudden-cardiac-and-unexplained-deaths-among-fifa-athletes-in-2021/

If that is where you are getting your news from......

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/11/scicheck-japan-continues-to-use-vaccines-not-ivermectin-to-fight-covid-19/

That's the comment section, independent from news section & should have been moderated. The 5 fold deaths could be attributed to long Covid as other posters have alluded to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on November 20, 2021, 10:56:45 PM
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02243-1/fulltext?fbclid=IwAR0AbiH14e-75WYrqGybCSVvo25UJ39cETzT5ht0WN9YBq3QowM8sLg1_Dg
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2021, 08:08:52 AM
irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-irish-times-view-on-covid-19-surges-in-europe-the-epicentre-of-the-pandemic-1.4732185... The most likely causes of the current EU wave are a combination of low vaccine uptake, waning immunity among people inoculated early, and growing complacency about masks and distancing
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2021, 09:14:19 AM
ft.com/content/acaa677d-807e-49c2-806a-3411c6c065a5... The consequence of allowing vaccine resistance to continue, said Schallenberg, was "endless human suffering"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on November 21, 2021, 09:43:25 AM
Quote from: Last Man on November 20, 2021, 10:56:45 PM
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02243-1/fulltext?fbclid=IwAR0AbiH14e-75WYrqGybCSVvo25UJ39cETzT5ht0WN9YBq3QowM8sLg1_Dg

That Lancet is an anti-vaccination rag!

In all seriousness, i hope people on here actually read that article. Just for a minute take your pro vac or anti vac hat off and read it objectively.

I've included a link to the Lancet's article on first generation covid vaccination pre their release.
      Again well worth looking considering all that has happened since that article was written.

https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(20)31976-0/fulltext
       
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 10:06:31 AM
It's strange how any article that questions the narrative is dismissed as an anti-vaccine rag, right wing rag, left wing rag, or whatever else... yet we clearly have skewed figures from MSM, and fake polls from RTE in recent days.

There are millions protesting around Europe (and around the world), about lockdowns and vaccine passports, and have been going on for months. But not a word about them on MSM. But 4 people glue themselves to the M25 and Greta Thunberg brings 5 mates to the Climate thing and it makes worldwide news. I honestly think millions of people are waking up to this nonsense. None of it is making any sense. Regulations/lockdowns/vaccines and passports are clearly not working, but let's continue pushing the nonsense that the unvaccinated are all to blame for this, push this agenda on MSM And it will get the the large number of frightened and those who don't question things on our side, and divide the people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on November 21, 2021, 10:14:27 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 10:06:31 AM
It's strange how any article that questions the narrative is dismissed as an anti-vaccine rag, right wing rag, left wing rag, or whatever else... yet we clearly have skewed figures from MSM, and fake polls from RTE in recent days.

There are millions protesting around Europe (and around the world), about lockdowns and vaccine passports, and have been going on for months. But not a word about them on MSM. But 4 people glue themselves to the M25 and Greta Thunberg brings 5 mates to the Climate thing and it makes worldwide news. I honestly think millions of people are waking up to this nonsense. None of it is making any sense. Regulations/lockdowns/vaccines and passports are clearly not working, but let's continue pushing the nonsense that the unvaccinated are all to blame for this, push this agenda on MSM And it will get the the large number of frightened and those who don't question things on our side, and divide the people.

that's a load of bollox.... there is and has been loads of articles and media time for the protests in Ireland UK NZ Austria Netherlands to name a few...

claiming there is false narrative in MSM or hiding something when peddling outright falsehoods  is hilarious 😂  wake up sheep!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 21, 2021, 11:10:29 AM
"Sheeple" seems to be the in word in rwnj circles for the sensible people who got vaccinated, wear masks and try to avoid getting Covid.
Meanwhile a transplant had to be postponed in the Mater yesterday due to no ICU beds being available.
Thanks non vaccinated ****s, another death on ye're hands.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 11:26:25 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 21, 2021, 10:14:27 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 10:06:31 AM
It's strange how any article that questions the narrative is dismissed as an anti-vaccine rag, right wing rag, left wing rag, or whatever else... yet we clearly have skewed figures from MSM, and fake polls from RTE in recent days.

There are millions protesting around Europe (and around the world), about lockdowns and vaccine passports, and have been going on for months. But not a word about them on MSM. But 4 people glue themselves to the M25 and Greta Thunberg brings 5 mates to the Climate thing and it makes worldwide news. I honestly think millions of people are waking up to this nonsense. None of it is making any sense. Regulations/lockdowns/vaccines and passports are clearly not working, but let's continue pushing the nonsense that the unvaccinated are all to blame for this, push this agenda on MSM And it will get the the large number of frightened and those who don't question things on our side, and divide the people.

that's a load of bollox.... there is and has been loads of articles and media time for the protests in Ireland UK NZ Austria Netherlands to name a few...

claiming there is false narrative in MSM or hiding something when peddling outright falsehoods  is hilarious 😂  wake up sheep!!

The only thing I seen was a quick flash of a few protesters in London. "15 headcases in attendance at a lockdown protest", and then the cops go in heavy handed and they show a bit of a scuffle, with people watching at homes shaking their heads thinking "look at those loons ". It's no wonder cases are high, they are clearly all to blame for this.

It reminded me of BBCNI or UTV sports reports. GAA now, and yesterday two fenian teams beat the shite out of each other in the club championship. Look at this, 4 men sent off, and a woman jumped the fence to beat the referee with her handbag. We don't have any scores to show you but look at this right hook from  the big full forward.

Go look for footage of the protests in Paris, Rome, Germany, Britain, Australia, Hungary, Croatia etc etc and the numbers in attendance. You're unlikely to find it on BBC/RTE but you'll see a lone climate activist sellotape himself to the M1 for sure
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 11:28:04 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 21, 2021, 11:10:29 AM
"Sheeple" seems to be the in word in rwnj circles for the sensible people who got vaccinated, wear masks and try to avoid getting Covid.
Meanwhile a transplant had to be postponed in the Mater yesterday due to no ICU beds being available.
Thanks non vaccinated ****s, another death on ye're hands.

See what I mean?  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on November 21, 2021, 11:32:14 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 11:26:25 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 21, 2021, 10:14:27 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 10:06:31 AM
It's strange how any article that questions the narrative is dismissed as an anti-vaccine rag, right wing rag, left wing rag, or whatever else... yet we clearly have skewed figures from MSM, and fake polls from RTE in recent days.

There are millions protesting around Europe (and around the world), about lockdowns and vaccine passports, and have been going on for months. But not a word about them on MSM. But 4 people glue themselves to the M25 and Greta Thunberg brings 5 mates to the Climate thing and it makes worldwide news. I honestly think millions of people are waking up to this nonsense. None of it is making any sense. Regulations/lockdowns/vaccines and passports are clearly not working, but let's continue pushing the nonsense that the unvaccinated are all to blame for this, push this agenda on MSM And it will get the the large number of frightened and those who don't question things on our side, and divide the people.

that's a load of bollox.... there is and has been loads of articles and media time for the protests in Ireland UK NZ Austria Netherlands to name a few...

claiming there is false narrative in MSM or hiding something when peddling outright falsehoods  is hilarious 😂  wake up sheep!!

The only thing I seen was a quick flash of a few protesters in London. "15 headcases in attendance at a lockdown protest", and then the cops go in heavy handed and they show a bit of a scuffle, with people watching at homes shaking their heads thinking "look at those loons ". It's no wonder cases are high, they are clearly all to blame for this.

It reminded me of BBCNI or UTV sports reports. GAA now, and yesterday two fenian teams beat the shite out of each other in the club championship. Look at this, 4 men sent off, and a woman jumped the fence to beat the referee with her handbag. We don't have any scores to show you but look at this right hook from  the big full forward.

Go look for footage of the protests in Paris, Rome, Germany, Britain, Australia, Hungary, Croatia etc etc and the numbers in attendance. You're unlikely to find it on BBC/RTE but you'll see a lone climate activist sellotape himself to the M1 for sure

3 articles alone in the last 24 hrs on rte.ie!!! 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 11:55:06 AM
Yes,  And note the language that they use.  Countless others they could report but they choose that one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 21, 2021, 11:57:50 AM
It's never enough is it Benny?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on November 21, 2021, 12:10:58 PM
but not a word about it.. now its the words are the right words...

???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 12:28:32 PM
Not reporting or misleading reporting. Its still not reporting the reality or the truth. Like I said earlier, it's all to divide people (which it is doing), and divert people away from the real problems.

Thanks non vaccinated ****s, another death on ye're hands.

Look at that comment from this morning. Anyone who gets sick or does is automatically blamed on the small percentage that are unvaccinated. Nothing to do with failing vaccines, people putting themselves in danger due to a false sense of protection that vaccines/passports give, the fact that some who died are already very vulnerable, or maybe not even died with covid at all. 

The media reports it (and people believe it) that unvaccinated are all loons and vaccinated are good guys doing everything right. But I suppose some people will swallow anything they're told, even though facts and figures have been deliberately distorted for nearly 2 years now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on November 21, 2021, 12:40:34 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 12:28:32 PM
Not reporting or misleading reporting. Its still not reporting the reality or the truth. Like I said earlier, it's all to divide people (which it is doing), and divert people away from the real problems.

Thanks non vaccinated ****s, another death on ye're hands.

Look at that comment from this morning. Anyone who gets sick or does is automatically blamed on the small percentage that are unvaccinated. Nothing to do with failing vaccines, people putting themselves in danger due to a false sense of protection that vaccines/passports give, the fact that some who died are already very vulnerable, or maybe not even died with covid at all. 

The media reports it (and people believe it) that unvaccinated are all loons and vaccinated are good guys doing everything right. But I suppose some people will swallow anything they're told, even though facts and figures have been deliberately distorted for nearly 2 years now

f**k off with your conspiracies.. I done with it.. that f**king idiot you posted up a few days ago is now arriving in push notifications on my phone... if you act like a loon don't surprised when you are considered one... 

I haven't  seen any black and white reporting your describing... you are mis representing msm to push your view that they are not reporting and misreporting your point off view... wake up sheep!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 21, 2021, 12:58:47 PM
So there is a very active social media account (citizenjournos I think it is)up north where months ago the guy who's wife died shortly after giving birth was to have a big reveal on what actually happened ( he wasn't sad enough apparently) and this week Donna trainor was apparently sacked for not getting the vaccine. On story one nothing has ever came. On story two the case was about ageism.

What happens with this? Absolute lies with no basis get tweeted retweeted etc and then they are believed as truth.

Reasonable people do not believe all non vaccinated are loons. However definitely some are and I really am not sure which camp you are in but you are deformed in the very paranoid camp.

I don't believe all anti vaccine people are bonkers but I do worry that there is a "movement " which is preying on people who struggle with mental health and gaining traction. I can honestly see that happening.

"Anti vax" people are definitely in the minority very much so still mind you.

Confirmation bias is what you have Benny. Some have it the other way too but you have it in spades about "MSM".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 01:34:25 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 21, 2021, 12:40:34 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 12:28:32 PM
Not reporting or misleading reporting. Its still not reporting the reality or the truth. Like I said earlier, it's all to divide people (which it is doing), and divert people away from the real problems.

Thanks non vaccinated ****s, another death on ye're hands.

Look at that comment from this morning. Anyone who gets sick or does is automatically blamed on the small percentage that are unvaccinated. Nothing to do with failing vaccines, people putting themselves in danger due to a false sense of protection that vaccines/passports give, the fact that some who died are already very vulnerable, or maybe not even died with covid at all. 

The media reports it (and people believe it) that unvaccinated are all loons and vaccinated are good guys doing everything right. But I suppose some people will swallow anything they're told, even though facts and figures have been deliberately distorted for nearly 2 years now

f**k off with your conspiracies.. I done with it.. that f**king idiot you posted up a few days ago is now arriving in push notifications on my phone... if you act like a loon don't surprised when you are considered one... 

I haven't  seen any black and white reporting your describing... you are mis representing msm to push your view that they are not reporting and misreporting your point off view... wake up sheep!!

To be honest, you're the one shouting "wake up sheep" and making personal insults.  And anything i comment on  is ignored and the usual insult follows. That's been a pattern with a lot of people.

How about addressing my point in the above  post, that was posted by another member? Do you agree with it? Do you see a problem with it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 21, 2021, 02:42:07 PM
Benny what part of "ICU patients and deaths are predominantly unvaccinated" are you struggling with?! That's not MSM - I have 2 sisters in law working in Craigavon as a theatre nurse and a consultant. I know what is going on there. Are they in the pay of big Pharma to come home and tell people lies. Maybe Craigavon is an anomaly and across Ireland and Europe everyone else in ICU is double vaxxed.

The vast majority of "free-thinkers" I know personally and see posting on social media are typically unemployed and/or thick as two short planks. They are not free thinkers; they have f**k all else to do all day apart from brainwash themselves on social media, whilst the rest of go out to work and pay taxes to keep the useless cnuts alive in hospital.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 04:42:24 PM
Quote
Our government saw it wise to lock down the country this time last year with lower hospitalisation numbers and significantly lower ICU numbers for a reason.

Of course they did, last year nobody was vaccinated in the numbers would have quickly increased.

QuoteThe vaccines are sadly not performing as well as anybody hoped including the CMO.

That may be true, but as the previous sentence shows they are working and their ability to work is significantly compromised by people not getting them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2021, 04:48:25 PM
Angelo been banned again?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 05:21:51 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 21, 2021, 05:13:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 04:42:24 PM
Quote
Our government saw it wise to lock down the country this time last year with lower hospitalisation numbers and significantly lower ICU numbers for a reason.

Of course they did, last year nobody was vaccinated in the numbers would have quickly increased.

QuoteThe vaccines are sadly not performing as well as anybody hoped including the CMO.

That may be true, but as the previous sentence shows they are working and their ability to work is significantly compromised by people not getting them.

I was going to have a debate with you but after you wrote the bit in bold I realise it would be wasted on u

If I said something incorrect then I am sure you can put me right. But of course you cannot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on November 21, 2021, 06:15:02 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 01:34:25 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 21, 2021, 12:40:34 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 12:28:32 PM
Not reporting or misleading reporting. Its still not reporting the reality or the truth. Like I said earlier, it's all to divide people (which it is doing), and divert people away from the real problems.

Thanks non vaccinated ****s, another death on ye're hands.

Look at that comment from this morning. Anyone who gets sick or does is automatically blamed on the small percentage that are unvaccinated. Nothing to do with failing vaccines, people putting themselves in danger due to a false sense of protection that vaccines/passports give, the fact that some who died are already very vulnerable, or maybe not even died with covid at all. 

The media reports it (and people believe it) that unvaccinated are all loons and vaccinated are good guys doing everything right. But I suppose some people will swallow anything they're told, even though facts and figures have been deliberately distorted for nearly 2 years now

f**k off with your conspiracies.. I done with it.. that f**king idiot you posted up a few days ago is now arriving in push notifications on my phone... if you act like a loon don't surprised when you are considered one... 

I haven't  seen any black and white reporting your describing... you are mis representing msm to push your view that they are not reporting and misreporting your point off view... wake up sheep!!

To be honest, you're the one shouting "wake up sheep" and making personal insults.  And anything i comment on  is ignored and the usual insult follows. That's been a pattern with a lot of people.

How about addressing my point in the above  post, that was posted by another member? Do you agree with it? Do you see a problem with it?

where am I shouting...more inaccuracies...  another article there on the journal about Belgium..

I haven't ignored what you posted, I commented directly on the outright lies you posted about the MSM. another lie.. so I am not ignoring anything you commented on re MSM which is what I am actually posting on.

you now say I am ignoring you because I haven't comment on another posters comment you referenced.. I don't have to comment on everything you post... just the very obvious falsehoods of msm I felt needed comment.

why should I have a problem with Rossfan comment... is it because he didn't blame the vaccinated not following guidelines also? or he didn't blame the government? or NpHet or whoever the non MSM feel should take the blame?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2021, 07:09:20 PM
In that tweet there was a reply from someone in Canada, Ontario, ICU 64 unvaccinated, 13 Vaccinated.

No response from your man on that stat I could see. Stats are great 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2021, 07:38:46 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 21, 2021, 06:39:45 PM
'There ability to work is significantly compromised by people not getting them'

😂😂😂

Ok


https://mobile.twitter.com/DrEliDavid/status/1461906028392591366 (https://mobile.twitter.com/DrEliDavid/status/1461906028392591366)

Who are you gonna blame for that, 100% vaccinated

Before you get too excited by the posts of Dr Eli David (who from looking at their twitter trail, is one of those right-wing American loons that has no idea what persecution actually is).

The population of Gibraltar is ~34k people.
So that is a spike of approximately 50 people (ok, 7 day rolling average, so more like ~350 people).

That could almost literally be caused by a small handful of events.


But, to be fair, I suppose in response to the general point; yes, vaccines are not stopping the delta variant spreading (unlike earlier variants which they did stop), but they are reducing case severity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 21, 2021, 07:39:22 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 21, 2021, 06:39:45 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 05:21:51 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 21, 2021, 05:13:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 04:42:24 PM
Quote
Our government saw it wise to lock down the country this time last year with lower hospitalisation numbers and significantly lower ICU numbers for a reason.

Of course they did, last year nobody was vaccinated in the numbers would have quickly increased.

QuoteThe vaccines are sadly not performing as well as anybody hoped including the CMO.

That may be true, but as the previous sentence shows they are working and their ability to work is significantly compromised by people not getting them.

I was going to have a debate with you but after you wrote the bit in bold I realise it would be wasted on u

If I said something incorrect then I am sure you can put me right. But of course you cannot.

'There ability to work is significantly compromised by people not getting them'

😂😂😂

Ok


https://mobile.twitter.com/DrEliDavid/status/1461906028392591366 (https://mobile.twitter.com/DrEliDavid/status/1461906028392591366)

Who are you gonna blame for that, 100% vaccinated
Oh you posted a link to a man with a graph. That's me convinced  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dunsilly King on November 21, 2021, 07:43:10 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 21, 2021, 07:39:22 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 21, 2021, 06:39:45 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 05:21:51 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 21, 2021, 05:13:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 04:42:24 PM
Quote
Our government saw it wise to lock down the country this time last year with lower hospitalisation numbers and significantly lower ICU numbers for a reason.

Of course they did, last year nobody was vaccinated in the numbers would have quickly increased.

QuoteThe vaccines are sadly not performing as well as anybody hoped including the CMO.

That may be true, but as the previous sentence shows they are working and their ability to work is significantly compromised by people not getting them.

I was going to have a debate with you but after you wrote the bit in bold I realise it would be wasted on u

If I said something incorrect then I am sure you can put me right. But of course you cannot.

'There ability to work is significantly compromised by people not getting them'

😂😂😂

Ok


https://mobile.twitter.com/DrEliDavid/status/1461906028392591366 (https://mobile.twitter.com/DrEliDavid/status/1461906028392591366)

Who are you gonna blame for that, 100% vaccinated
Oh you posted a link to a man with a graph. That's me convinced  ::)

The whole back and forth thing at this stage bores me

💤💤💤💤💤💤💤💤
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on November 21, 2021, 08:24:17 PM
bbc the latest not get the memo about not reporting protesting around Europe  about lockdowns and vaccine passports its the top story on their website!!! . But not a word about them on MSM  ???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on November 21, 2021, 08:38:06 PM
Was in Belfast yesterday and why is it always people that look like headers, adults with dyed hair etc who have the wee sunflower "mask exemption" lanyards you can buy on Amazon for about £3 ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 08:45:33 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 21, 2021, 02:42:07 PM
Benny what part of "ICU patients and deaths are predominantly unvaccinated" are you struggling with?! That's not MSM - I have 2 sisters in law working in Craigavon as a theatre nurse and a consultant. I know what is going on there. Are they in the pay of big Pharma to come home and tell people lies. Maybe Craigavon is an anomaly and across Ireland and Europe everyone else in ICU is double vaxxed.

The vast majority of "free-thinkers" I know personally and see posting on social media are typically unemployed and/or thick as two short planks. They are not free thinkers; they have f**k all else to do all day apart from brainwash themselves on social media, whilst the rest of go out to work and pay taxes to keep the useless cnuts alive in hospital.

Should your relatives be coming home telling you anything? Is, what goes on their place of work not confidential? If you worked in a  shop, would you come home and tell everyone how much the shops takings were for the day, who came in and what they bought?  I don't doubt there are unvaccinated in hospital but predominantly could mean anything from 51% to 99%.

What's the deal with boosters? Is there a time limit on vaccines? Technically do you need to be topped up before the 6 months have elapsed, otherwise you are classified as unvaccinated?  They are saying Vaccines wane after 3-4 months , so do you become classed as unvaccinated after 3 months then.  Or 4 months?

That last bit is only your own perspective.  People who are sceptical are lazy hoors with nothing else to do basically?  So if someone happens to be out of work, they're a bit of a headcase, running around getting up to all sorts.. whereas those working are sensible citizens, doing what they're told? Come on man,  that's like the "vaccinated = good, unvaccinated =  bad" narrative  all over again... influenced by the media
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on November 21, 2021, 08:52:01 PM
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8572364/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2021, 08:54:38 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 08:45:33 PM
Come on man,  that's like the "vaccinated = good, unvaccinated =  bad"

Its not a narrative.

Only dumb f*kkers who aren't a fraction as smart as they think they are think its some kind of narrative or sleight of hand by new world order or similar bull.

Vaccinated is good.
Unvaccinated is both stupid and selfish in the extreme.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on November 21, 2021, 08:56:51 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2021, 08:54:38 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 08:45:33 PM
Come on man,  that's like the "vaccinated = good, unvaccinated =  bad"

Its not a narrative.

Only dumb f*kkers who aren't a fraction as smart as they think they are think its some kind of narrative or sleight of hand by new world order or similar bull.

Vaccinated is good.
Unvaccinated is both stupid and selfish in the extreme.

+1
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on November 21, 2021, 09:01:55 PM
I guess its human nature. We all need to blame some poor bast@$d for the mess we are in
          Look at the language used to describe the unvaccinated on the last page or two of this thread
        Loons, selfish, typically unemployed and/or thick and resposible for the deaths of others. 
       I'd say thats the language of a bully. 
        There are lots of people who have genuine concerns with either the vaccination programme itself and/or new unprecedented measures governments have introduced during these awful times.
          Personally i dont think its a massive overarching conspiracy by government/big pharma to control the population.
          I also don't think there are massive long term or hidden health risks from taking the vaccine but a sizeable portion of the population do and that is not an unreasonable position to take given the speed of its research/testing, licensing and introduction. 
         However i do think the effectiveness of the vaccines were/are wildly overplayed by both the pharma companies and governments. Many people hold that view. Some here have produced statistics or articles to back that up. Time will untimately tell.
            Nearly all of the restrictions/measures introduced i.e. covid passport, employment in healthcate, lockdown for non vaccinated, withholding healthcare for non vacc and ultimately mandatory vaccinations are based on the crucial assumption that covid vaccines are as effective as the pharma manufacturers initially stated and are the only game in town to end this pandemic or to mitigate the worst effects and ease the burden on the health care systems.
         Governments have bought into this and have had to then introduce measures to ensure vaccination uptake.
        Its these powers and measures that they have introduced particularly the idea of a vaccine passport or some sort of digital health certification that really worry me. The idea that healthcare could be withheld from some groups is also terryfying for me.
      I really hope are government don't try introduce measures such as mandatory vaccinations in the workplace or heaven knows the general population. But i have real concerns that thats the way things are headed.
       It would be interesting to see if there was a poll on here asking
         who woild be in favour of  mandatory vaccination in the workplace or even mandatory vaccination of the entire population..
       
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 21, 2021, 09:07:00 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on November 21, 2021, 08:38:06 PM
Was in Belfast yesterday and why is it always people that look like headers, adults with dyed hair etc who have the wee sunflower "mask exemption" lanyards you can buy on Amazon for about £3 ?

I'll give you up an example, the Spar at the estate, 40% wearing a mask, following guidelines sanitising hands at door. The Spar in the village, all mask wearing!!

Is it an educational thing now!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on November 21, 2021, 09:08:04 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 21, 2021, 06:39:45 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 05:21:51 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 21, 2021, 05:13:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 04:42:24 PM
Quote
Our government saw it wise to lock down the country this time last year with lower hospitalisation numbers and significantly lower ICU numbers for a reason.

Of course they did, last year nobody was vaccinated in the numbers would have quickly increased.

QuoteThe vaccines are sadly not performing as well as anybody hoped including the CMO.

That may be true, but as the previous sentence shows they are working and their ability to work is significantly compromised by people not getting them.

I was going to have a debate with you but after you wrote the bit in bold I realise it would be wasted on u

If I said something incorrect then I am sure you can put me right. But of course you cannot.

'There ability to work is significantly compromised by people not getting them'

😂😂😂

Ok


https://mobile.twitter.com/DrEliDavid/status/1461906028392591366 (https://mobile.twitter.com/DrEliDavid/status/1461906028392591366)

Who are you gonna blame for that, 100% vaccinated

The government of Gibraltar publishes the vaccination status of those that test positive for Covid-19 on Twitter (https://twitter.com/GibraltarGov).

In the last 7 days there have been 385 cases. At least 217 of these cases, 56%, are from unvaccinated individuals.

The unvaccinated cohort in Gibraltar, mostly kids, represent a small fraction of the total population, yet are responsible for the majority of cases in the territory.

Gibraltar is too small to prove anything, but it's pretty hilarious that these innumerate Twitter charlatans have begun to push it as some sort of smoking gun that suggests vaccines have no benefit. I mean, if they would only wake up and do their own research...

(https://i.ibb.co/XS7K1bx/Gib15.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/7gsx4YD/Gib16.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/r0KW5w5/Gib17.png) (https://ibb.co/T2DCPgP)
(https://i.ibb.co/qjnMKwN/Gib18.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GpJvyjW)
(https://i.ibb.co/Qry75hr/Gib19.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qkTLZhk)
(https://i.ibb.co/1vxTq6R/Gib20.png) (https://ibb.co/kHFX81q)
(https://i.ibb.co/r6N1nXN/Gib22.png) (https://ibb.co/MVQ3qJQ)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:09:04 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2021, 08:54:38 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 08:45:33 PM
Come on man,  that's like the "vaccinated = good, unvaccinated =  bad"

Its not a narrative.

Only dumb f*kkers who aren't a fraction as smart as they think they are think its some kind of narrative or sleight of hand by new world order or similar bull.

Vaccinated is good.
Unvaccinated is both stupid and selfish in the extreme.

I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on November 21, 2021, 09:15:20 PM
who believes that? another false narrative...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2021, 09:16:07 PM
Quote from: grounded on November 21, 2021, 09:01:55 PM
 
         However i do think the effectiveness of the vaccines were/are wildly overplayed by both the pharma companies and governments. Many people hold that view. Some here have produced statistics or articles to back that up. Time will untimately tell.

The initial studies (and effectiveness figures) were for the original virus (and perhaps a one or two widespread early variants). Delta largely kicked the stopping of transmission to the kerb [vaccines were reducing transmission by useful amounts for original/early variants].


Quote from: grounded on November 21, 2021, 09:01:55 PM
            Nearly all of the restrictions/measures introduced i.e. covid passport, employment in healthcate, lockdown for non vaccinated, withholding healthcare for non vacc and ultimately mandatory vaccinations are based on the crucial assumption that covid vaccines are as effective as the pharma manufacturers initially stated and are the only game in town to end this pandemic or to mitigate the worst effects and ease the burden on the health care systems.
         Governments have bought into this and have had to then introduce measures to ensure vaccination uptake.

Right now, they are the only game in town.

There are treatments being developed. Mileage may vary on effectiveness - but in a troublesome development for the tinfoil hat wearing clowns, these treatments are also largely under the auspices of.... big pharma.

But, you can expect vaccines to be tweaked to better target delta and hopefully bring efficacy back to what it was pre-delta.

Quote from: grounded on November 21, 2021, 09:01:55 PM
The idea that healthcare could be withheld from some groups is also terryfying for me.

Some groups are already withholding healthcare from others by their refusal to take the prescribed pro-active treatment.

Do the tinfoil hat brigade not realise that for every one of those dumb f*ks needlessly in hospital, that is a bed for someone that would need it for other reasons (say elective surgery at best, cancer care at worst).



Quote from: grounded on November 21, 2021, 09:01:55 PM
It would be interesting to see if there was a poll on here asking who woild be in favour of  mandatory vaccination in the workplace or even mandatory vaccination of the entire population..
       

I would absolutely be in favour of either. Or if that's not an option, if people want to opt out of public healthcare measures (i.e. vaccines), then they opt out of public healthcare for covid full stop.

'cos right now, their stupidity is without recourse until they are occupying/dying in a hospital bed that someone else could use.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2021, 09:18:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:09:04 PM
I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:31:08 PM
RadioGaaGaa:

I would absolutely be in favour of either. Or if that's not an option, if people want to opt out of public healthcare measures (i.e. vaccines), then they opt out of public healthcare for covid full stop.

'cos right now, their stupidity is without recourse until they are occupying/dying in a hospital bed that someone else could use.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We all know the dangers of smoking, drinking, eating unhealthy food, playing sports, driving vehicles, doing diy - should we also refuse medical treatment to people who participate in these?

I'd be fairly sure everyone on here participates in a  number of these. And their families. So if One of us fell off a ladder, sustained an injury playing Hurling or needed medical attention for a lung/liver problem... it's fine to not let them  into the hospital?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:32:23 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2021, 09:18:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:09:04 PM
I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

Ok, so you are saying that  vaccinated and unvaccinated people are both to blame?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 09:44:22 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:32:23 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2021, 09:18:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:09:04 PM
I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

Ok, so you are saying that  vaccinated and unvaccinated people are both to blame?

Take the road safety example, you may still have an accident despite having a well-maintained car and driving safely. Many vaccinated people will become infected although they have taken all reasonable measures. if you drive a car too fast or on bald tyres then you to blame, not getting vaccinated is in this category. Some vaccinated people may be sloppy in other respects, but many are not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on November 21, 2021, 11:36:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 09:44:22 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:32:23 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2021, 09:18:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:09:04 PM
I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

Ok, so you are saying that  vaccinated and unvaccinated people are both to blame?

Take the road safety example, you may still have an accident despite having a well-maintained car and driving safely. Many vaccinated people will become infected although they have taken all reasonable measures. if you drive a car too fast or on bald tyres then you to blame, not getting vaccinated is in this category. Some vaccinated people may be sloppy in other respects, but many are not.

I read the above and I worry about the road ahead. Contrary to what you believe, the unvaxxed are scared people - not of taking a vax but what ransom people like yourself will hold them to. You are the danger in all of this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 22, 2021, 12:06:39 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 21, 2021, 11:36:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 09:44:22 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:32:23 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2021, 09:18:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:09:04 PM
I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

Ok, so you are saying that  vaccinated and unvaccinated people are both to blame?

Take the road safety example, you may still have an accident despite having a well-maintained car and driving safely. Many vaccinated people will become infected although they have taken all reasonable measures. if you drive a car too fast or on bald tyres then you to blame, not getting vaccinated is in this category. Some vaccinated people may be sloppy in other respects, but many are not.

I read the above and I worry about the road ahead. Contrary to what you believe, the unvaxxed are scared people - not of taking a vax but what ransom people like yourself will hold them to. You are the danger in all of this.

Like the people driving about who have no licence, they can do what society requires of them to do and then there is no need to be scared.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 22, 2021, 12:09:19 AM
If this illness attack our youth, kids or grandkids, would we encourage them or our age group to do what's best?

Why do we allow our kids to be vaccinated against other illnesses?

Or will it be that we are happier to get vaccinated after a period of time?

Like I said, I'm purely doing it for personal reasons, I've not influenced my grown up children, they've done it for their own reasons. Don't influence anyone please, let them get on with it whatever their call is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on November 22, 2021, 12:24:10 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 22, 2021, 12:06:39 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 21, 2021, 11:36:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 09:44:22 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:32:23 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2021, 09:18:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:09:04 PM
I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

Ok, so you are saying that  vaccinated and unvaccinated people are both to blame?

Take the road safety example, you may still have an accident despite having a well-maintained car and driving safely. Many vaccinated people will become infected although they have taken all reasonable measures. if you drive a car too fast or on bald tyres then you to blame, not getting vaccinated is in this category. Some vaccinated people may be sloppy in other respects, but many are not.

I read the above and I worry about the road ahead. Contrary to what you believe, the unvaxxed are scared people - not of taking a vax but what ransom people like yourself will hold them to. You are the danger in all of this.

Like the people driving about who have no licence, they can do what society requires of them to do and then there is no need to be scared.

You don't get the full picture with that comparison.  :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on November 22, 2021, 12:37:27 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 21, 2021, 11:36:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 09:44:22 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:32:23 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2021, 09:18:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:09:04 PM
I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

Ok, so you are saying that  vaccinated and unvaccinated people are both to blame?

Take the road safety example, you may still have an accident despite having a well-maintained car and driving safely. Many vaccinated people will become infected although they have taken all reasonable measures. if you drive a car too fast or on bald tyres then you to blame, not getting vaccinated is in this category. Some vaccinated people may be sloppy in other respects, but many are not.

I read the above and I worry about the road ahead. Contrary to what you believe, the unvaxxed are scared people - not of taking a vax but what ransom people like yourself will hold them to. You are the danger in all of this.

Thats summed it up for me. For me its not so much about the vaccine as the controls and measures like covid passports or digital health certificates etc that our governments can introduce without so much as a whimper from politicians, media or the judiciary.
           I don't think its going to end well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 22, 2021, 01:18:13 AM
Quote from: grounded on November 22, 2021, 12:37:27 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 21, 2021, 11:36:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 09:44:22 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:32:23 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2021, 09:18:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:09:04 PM
I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

Ok, so you are saying that  vaccinated and unvaccinated people are both to blame?

Take the road safety example, you may still have an accident despite having a well-maintained car and driving safely. Many vaccinated people will become infected although they have taken all reasonable measures. if you drive a car too fast or on bald tyres then you to blame, not getting vaccinated is in this category. Some vaccinated people may be sloppy in other respects, but many are not.

I read the above and I worry about the road ahead. Contrary to what you believe, the unvaxxed are scared people - not of taking a vax but what ransom people like yourself will hold them to. You are the danger in all of this.

Thats summed it up for me. For me its not so much about the vaccine as the controls and measures like covid passports or digital health certificates etc that our governments can introduce without so much as a whimper from politicians, media or the judiciary.
           I don't think its going to end well.

Yes totally agree.

The idea of mandatory vaccination, if that was made law, then why would you need covid passports? Or this digital health app/certificate? If every single person in the country was vaccinated, then there would be no reason for lockdowns, restrictions, curfews, working from home, no effects on businesses etc. Yes, people would still contract the virus, and some will get sick, and some will die, but life would continue as before. But it would basically be the survival of the fittest. If you survive, you survive. If you die, you die.

The government's wouldn't have a scapegoat  to pin this on because there would be no unvaccinated. People are turning on each other instead of on government for their handling of this. People would turn and point the finger at Them for the waning vaccines, numbers of infections and hospitalisations, and for their disastrous handling of the whole thing..   They won't impose mandatory vaccines for  that very reason. They want division. They want control
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 22, 2021, 01:20:08 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 22, 2021, 01:18:13 AM
They want division. They want control

No, they want the hospitals to be available for unavoidable illness.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2021, 05:42:09 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/covid-wage-subsidy-levels-may-be-maintained-as-hospitality-rocked-by-cancellations-1.4734904Ministers are expected to consider retaining higher rates of financial supports for businesses at a special meeting today, in light of the deteriorating Covid-19 situation.

The Cabinet subcommittee on economics will receive an update on financial supports amid widespread infections across the State and new restrictions being imposed on businesses, particularly in the hospitality sector.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on November 22, 2021, 07:22:54 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 22, 2021, 01:20:08 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 22, 2021, 01:18:13 AM
They want division. They want control

No, they want the hospitals to be available for unavoidable illness.
Yep, but the 3 posters before you are complete morons who can't believe they have a facility here to engage with people.

They have this belief that the governments around the world, including and especially Ireland, have these vaccine policies in order to control us little people. For what end, it's not quite clear, other than it's dangerous. So beware! And furthermore it's only these special people and their cohorts who are aware of this cunning plan while the rest of us are all missing the obvious!

Deluded loners or just morons.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2021, 08:03:47 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 22, 2021, 01:18:13 AM
Quote from: grounded on November 22, 2021, 12:37:27 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 21, 2021, 11:36:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 09:44:22 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:32:23 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2021, 09:18:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:09:04 PM
I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

Ok, so you are saying that  vaccinated and unvaccinated people are both to blame?

Take the road safety example, you may still have an accident despite having a well-maintained car and driving safely. Many vaccinated people will become infected although they have taken all reasonable measures. if you drive a car too fast or on bald tyres then you to blame, not getting vaccinated is in this category. Some vaccinated people may be sloppy in other respects, but many are not.

I read the above and I worry about the road ahead. Contrary to what you believe, the unvaxxed are scared people - not of taking a vax but what ransom people like yourself will hold them to. You are the danger in all of this.

Thats summed it up for me. For me its not so much about the vaccine as the controls and measures like covid passports or digital health certificates etc that our governments can introduce without so much as a whimper from politicians, media or the judiciary.
           I don't think its going to end well.

Yes totally agree.

The idea of mandatory vaccination, if that was made law, then why would you need covid passports? Or this digital health app/certificate? If every single person in the country was vaccinated, then there would be no reason for lockdowns, restrictions, curfews, working from home, no effects on businesses etc. Yes, people would still contract the virus, and some will get sick, and some will die, but life would continue as before. But it would basically be the survival of the fittest. If you survive, you survive. If you die, you die.

The government's wouldn't have a scapegoat  to pin this on because there would be no unvaccinated. People are turning on each other instead of on government for their handling of this. People would turn and point the finger at Them for the waning vaccines, numbers of infections and hospitalisations, and for their disastrous handling of the whole thing..   They won't impose mandatory vaccines for  that very reason. They want division. They want control
This is bullshit. Nobody wants this pandemic
Where did all the paranoid theories come from ?
You are just being played.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 22, 2021, 08:06:42 AM
Who are "they"??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 22, 2021, 08:25:01 AM
Not once has that question been answered. Been asked many times.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 22, 2021, 08:56:15 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 04:42:24 PM
Quote
Our government saw it wise to lock down the country this time last year with lower hospitalisation numbers and significantly lower ICU numbers for a reason.

Of course they did, last year nobody was vaccinated in the numbers would have quickly increased.

QuoteThe vaccines are sadly not performing as well as anybody hoped including the CMO.

That may be true, but as the previous sentence shows they are working and their ability to work is significantly compromised by people not getting them.
Is it really? How many aren't vaccinated at this stage? Must be a tiny percentage. Last figures I saw were around 90% for over 12's and that'l be even higher for just adults you'd imagine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: BennyCake on November 22, 2021, 09:12:13 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2021, 08:03:47 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 22, 2021, 01:18:13 AM
Quote from: grounded on November 22, 2021, 12:37:27 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 21, 2021, 11:36:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 09:44:22 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:32:23 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2021, 09:18:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:09:04 PM
I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

Ok, so you are saying that  vaccinated and unvaccinated people are both to blame?

Take the road safety example, you may still have an accident despite having a well-maintained car and driving safely. Many vaccinated people will become infected although they have taken all reasonable measures. if you drive a car too fast or on bald tyres then you to blame, not getting vaccinated is in this category. Some vaccinated people may be sloppy in other respects, but many are not.

I read the above and I worry about the road ahead. Contrary to what you believe, the unvaxxed are scared people - not of taking a vax but what ransom people like yourself will hold them to. You are the danger in all of this.

Thats summed it up for me. For me its not so much about the vaccine as the controls and measures like covid passports or digital health certificates etc that our governments can introduce without so much as a whimper from politicians, media or the judiciary.
           I don't think its going to end well.

Yes totally agree.

The idea of mandatory vaccination, if that was made law, then why would you need covid passports? Or this digital health app/certificate? If every single person in the country was vaccinated, then there would be no reason for lockdowns, restrictions, curfews, working from home, no effects on businesses etc. Yes, people would still contract the virus, and some will get sick, and some will die, but life would continue as before. But it would basically be the survival of the fittest. If you survive, you survive. If you die, you die.

The government's wouldn't have a scapegoat  to pin this on because there would be no unvaccinated. People are turning on each other instead of on government for their handling of this. People would turn and point the finger at Them for the waning vaccines, numbers of infections and hospitalisations, and for their disastrous handling of the whole thing..   They won't impose mandatory vaccines for  that very reason. They want division. They want control
This is bullshit. Nobody wants this pandemic
Where did all the paranoid theories come from ?
You are just being played.

Well if Austria proceed with mandatory vaccinations, it will be interesting to see if they get rid of covid passports. Why would they need them if everyone is vaccinated ? If they're still around by March, you have to wonder.

Who's getting the blame for this recent surge in cases then? Is it the government for not preparing for this eventuality? The waning effect of vaccines? No, it's the unvaccinated. It's all their fault. There's your scapegoat.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on November 22, 2021, 09:12:31 AM
Quote from: Hound on November 22, 2021, 07:22:54 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 22, 2021, 01:20:08 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 22, 2021, 01:18:13 AM
They want division. They want control

No, they want the hospitals to be available for unavoidable illness.
Yep, but the 3 posters before you are complete morons who can't believe they have a facility here to engage with people.

They have this belief that the governments around the world, including and especially Ireland, have these vaccine policies in order to control us little people. For what end, it's not quite clear, other than it's dangerous. So beware! And furthermore it's only these special people and their cohorts who are aware of this cunning plan while the rest of us are all missing the obvious!

Deluded loners or just morons.

Well you've convinced me with your coherent counter arguments and insults!
     
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 22, 2021, 09:32:23 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 22, 2021, 09:12:13 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2021, 08:03:47 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 22, 2021, 01:18:13 AM
Quote from: grounded on November 22, 2021, 12:37:27 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 21, 2021, 11:36:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 09:44:22 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:32:23 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2021, 09:18:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:09:04 PM
I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

Ok, so you are saying that  vaccinated and unvaccinated people are both to blame?

Take the road safety example, you may still have an accident despite having a well-maintained car and driving safely. Many vaccinated people will become infected although they have taken all reasonable measures. if you drive a car too fast or on bald tyres then you to blame, not getting vaccinated is in this category. Some vaccinated people may be sloppy in other respects, but many are not.

I read the above and I worry about the road ahead. Contrary to what you believe, the unvaxxed are scared people - not of taking a vax but what ransom people like yourself will hold them to. You are the danger in all of this.

Thats summed it up for me. For me its not so much about the vaccine as the controls and measures like covid passports or digital health certificates etc that our governments can introduce without so much as a whimper from politicians, media or the judiciary.
           I don't think its going to end well.

Yes totally agree.

The idea of mandatory vaccination, if that was made law, then why would you need covid passports? Or this digital health app/certificate? If every single person in the country was vaccinated, then there would be no reason for lockdowns, restrictions, curfews, working from home, no effects on businesses etc. Yes, people would still contract the virus, and some will get sick, and some will die, but life would continue as before. But it would basically be the survival of the fittest. If you survive, you survive. If you die, you die.

The government's wouldn't have a scapegoat  to pin this on because there would be no unvaccinated. People are turning on each other instead of on government for their handling of this. People would turn and point the finger at Them for the waning vaccines, numbers of infections and hospitalisations, and for their disastrous handling of the whole thing..   They won't impose mandatory vaccines for  that very reason. They want division. They want control
This is bullshit. Nobody wants this pandemic
Where did all the paranoid theories come from ?
You are just being played.

Well if Austria proceed with mandatory vaccinations, it will be interesting to see if they get rid of covid passports. Why would they need them if everyone is vaccinated ? If they're still around by March, you have to wonder.

Who's getting the blame for this recent surge in cases then? Is it the government for not preparing for this eventuality? The waning effect of vaccines? No, it's the unvaccinated. It's all their fault. There's your scapegoat.
The government are getting some of the blame, as we all discuss how bad the NHS is. Blaming the vaccines would be stupid as it's still better that no vaccine. And yes the unvaccinated are getting some of the blame as well. I think the issue is that the unvaccinated don't want to accept they have to shoulder some of the blame for being unvaccinated just the same as some vaccinated who flaunt rules are to blame as well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on November 22, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 22, 2021, 09:12:13 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2021, 08:03:47 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 22, 2021, 01:18:13 AM
Quote from: grounded on November 22, 2021, 12:37:27 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 21, 2021, 11:36:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 09:44:22 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:32:23 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2021, 09:18:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:09:04 PM
I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

Ok, so you are saying that  vaccinated and unvaccinated people are both to blame?

Take the road safety example, you may still have an accident despite having a well-maintained car and driving safely. Many vaccinated people will become infected although they have taken all reasonable measures. if you drive a car too fast or on bald tyres then you to blame, not getting vaccinated is in this category. Some vaccinated people may be sloppy in other respects, but many are not.

I read the above and I worry about the road ahead. Contrary to what you believe, the unvaxxed are scared people - not of taking a vax but what ransom people like yourself will hold them to. You are the danger in all of this.

Thats summed it up for me. For me its not so much about the vaccine as the controls and measures like covid passports or digital health certificates etc that our governments can introduce without so much as a whimper from politicians, media or the judiciary.
           I don't think its going to end well.

Yes totally agree.

The idea of mandatory vaccination, if that was made law, then why would you need covid passports? Or this digital health app/certificate? If every single person in the country was vaccinated, then there would be no reason for lockdowns, restrictions, curfews, working from home, no effects on businesses etc. Yes, people would still contract the virus, and some will get sick, and some will die, but life would continue as before. But it would basically be the survival of the fittest. If you survive, you survive. If you die, you die.

The government's wouldn't have a scapegoat  to pin this on because there would be no unvaccinated. People are turning on each other instead of on government for their handling of this. People would turn and point the finger at Them for the waning vaccines, numbers of infections and hospitalisations, and for their disastrous handling of the whole thing..   They won't impose mandatory vaccines for  that very reason. They want division. They want control
This is bullshit. Nobody wants this pandemic
Where did all the paranoid theories come from ?
You are just being played.

Well if Austria proceed with mandatory vaccinations, it will be interesting to see if they get rid of covid passports. Why would they need them if everyone is vaccinated ? If they're still around by March, you have to wonder.

Who's getting the blame for this recent surge in cases then? Is it the government for not preparing for this eventuality? The waning effect of vaccines? No, it's the unvaccinated. It's all their fault. There's your scapegoat.

Flash narrative alert!!! ⚠️ 📢 🚨  again!

what point are you trying to make or suggest when you say you have to wonder? Are you suggesting there are alternative reasons for the covid passport? some sort of conspiracy?

unvaccinated are not blamed for the recent surge... they are blamed for putting extra pressure on the health service.

I think most People were aware when society opened up again numbers would increase... the same people were suggesting that restrictions were required last year as without them hospitals would be overun but back then others that share your opinions didnt want restrictions, they wanted to open up...

I'd be interested in what you think Govt should have done.. I am.not suggesting they are doing a good job but interested in what you think the alternatives were/are..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 22, 2021, 10:00:59 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 22, 2021, 09:43:08 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 22, 2021, 09:12:13 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2021, 08:03:47 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 22, 2021, 01:18:13 AM
Quote from: grounded on November 22, 2021, 12:37:27 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 21, 2021, 11:36:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 09:44:22 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:32:23 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2021, 09:18:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:09:04 PM
I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

Ok, so you are saying that  vaccinated and unvaccinated people are both to blame?

Take the road safety example, you may still have an accident despite having a well-maintained car and driving safely. Many vaccinated people will become infected although they have taken all reasonable measures. if you drive a car too fast or on bald tyres then you to blame, not getting vaccinated is in this category. Some vaccinated people may be sloppy in other respects, but many are not.

I read the above and I worry about the road ahead. Contrary to what you believe, the unvaxxed are scared people - not of taking a vax but what ransom people like yourself will hold them to. You are the danger in all of this.

Thats summed it up for me. For me its not so much about the vaccine as the controls and measures like covid passports or digital health certificates etc that our governments can introduce without so much as a whimper from politicians, media or the judiciary.
           I don't think its going to end well.

Yes totally agree.

The idea of mandatory vaccination, if that was made law, then why would you need covid passports? Or this digital health app/certificate? If every single person in the country was vaccinated, then there would be no reason for lockdowns, restrictions, curfews, working from home, no effects on businesses etc. Yes, people would still contract the virus, and some will get sick, and some will die, but life would continue as before. But it would basically be the survival of the fittest. If you survive, you survive. If you die, you die.

The government's wouldn't have a scapegoat  to pin this on because there would be no unvaccinated. People are turning on each other instead of on government for their handling of this. People would turn and point the finger at Them for the waning vaccines, numbers of infections and hospitalisations, and for their disastrous handling of the whole thing..   They won't impose mandatory vaccines for  that very reason. They want division. They want control
This is bullshit. Nobody wants this pandemic
Where did all the paranoid theories come from ?
You are just being played.

Well if Austria proceed with mandatory vaccinations, it will be interesting to see if they get rid of covid passports. Why would they need them if everyone is vaccinated ? If they're still around by March, you have to wonder.

Who's getting the blame for this recent surge in cases then? Is it the government for not preparing for this eventuality? The waning effect of vaccines? No, it's the unvaccinated. It's all their fault. There's your scapegoat.

Flash narrative alert!!! ⚠️ 📢 🚨  again!

what point are you trying to make or suggest when you say you have to wonder? Are you suggesting there are alternative reasons for the covid passport? some sort of conspiracy?

unvaccinated are not blamed for the recent surge... they are blamed for putting extra pressure on the health service.

I think most People were aware when society opened up again numbers would increase... the same people were suggesting that restrictions were required last year as without them hospitals would be overun but back then others that share your opinions didnt want restrictions, they wanted to open up...

I'd be interested in what you think Govt should have done.. I am.not suggesting they are doing a good job but interested in what you think the alternatives were/are..


what about people that galivant all over the place are they not to blame aswell  will you be calling out these companies that still go ahead with christmas parties.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 22, 2021, 10:01:51 AM
videos this morning of a luas packed out are they not to blame are they free from guilt and sin .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on November 22, 2021, 11:06:20 AM
eire90 I haven't seen the video of the Luas (did a quick twitter search and saw nothing). Are you advocating for the reintroduction of restrictions? or fines for breaches of guidelines etc.?

I used to take the luas to work pre covid... I won't be taking it the future, as it stands that's a personal choice as guidelines allow full capacity on public transport as far as I know.

FYI - 50% (4) articles on breaking news now are about covid and lockdowns and/or protests in Europe and NZ.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 22, 2021, 11:21:49 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 22, 2021, 09:12:13 AM
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2021, 08:03:47 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 22, 2021, 01:18:13 AM
Quote from: grounded on November 22, 2021, 12:37:27 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 21, 2021, 11:36:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 21, 2021, 09:44:22 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:32:23 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2021, 09:18:59 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 21, 2021, 09:09:04 PM
I was referring  to this idea  that the vaccinated are all wearing  masks, doing the right things, whereas the unvaccinated are running around mental, adhering to no guidance . It's clearly not true, but that's what people believe

Ah, OK.

Yeah, that is more than a fair point. There are some believe the vaccines are a silver bullet and means they can party like its 2018...

But, that does not mean I am going any less harsh on those that refuse to get vaccinated.

Ok, so you are saying that  vaccinated and unvaccinated people are both to blame?

Take the road safety example, you may still have an accident despite having a well-maintained car and driving safely. Many vaccinated people will become infected although they have taken all reasonable measures. if you drive a car too fast or on bald tyres then you to blame, not getting vaccinated is in this category. Some vaccinated people may be sloppy in other respects, but many are not.

I read the above and I worry about the road ahead. Contrary to what you believe, the unvaxxed are scared people - not of taking a vax but what ransom people like yourself will hold them to. You are the danger in all of this.

Thats summed it up for me. For me its not so much about the vaccine as the controls and measures like covid passports or digital health certificates etc that our governments can introduce without so much as a whimper from politicians, media or the judiciary.
           I don't think its going to end well.

Yes totally agree.

The idea of mandatory vaccination, if that was made law, then why would you need covid passports? Or this digital health app/certificate? If every single person in the country was vaccinated, then there would be no reason for lockdowns, restrictions, curfews, working from home, no effects on businesses etc. Yes, people would still contract the virus, and some will get sick, and some will die, but life would continue as before. But it would basically be the survival of the fittest. If you survive, you survive. If you die, you die.

The government's wouldn't have a scapegoat  to pin this on because there would be no unvaccinated. People are turning on each other instead of on government for their handling of this. People would turn and point the finger at Them for the waning vaccines, numbers of infections and hospitalisations, and for their disastrous handling of the whole thing..   They won't impose mandatory vaccines for  that very reason. They want division. They want control
This is bullshit. Nobody wants this pandemic
Where did all the paranoid theories come from ?
You are just being played.

Well if Austria proceed with mandatory vaccinations, it will be interesting to see if they get rid of covid passports. Why would they need them if everyone is vaccinated ? If they're still around by March, you have to wonder.

Who's getting the blame for this recent surge in cases then? Is it the government for not preparing for this eventuality? The waning effect of vaccines? No, it's the unvaccinated. It's all their fault. There's your scapegoat.

1. Wonder about what, exactly?

2. Passing a driving test is mandatory to be allowed to drive freely on public roads. Going by your apparent logic, why would we need driving licenses?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 22, 2021, 11:38:24 AM
some video going around of 100s of people in the street in cork  joe duffy probably wont say anything free from guilt and sin
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 22, 2021, 11:41:50 AM
We don't know if Austria can impose compulsory vaccination successfully.
If it can't the idea will be quietly shelved.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on November 23, 2021, 12:39:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2021, 11:41:50 AM
We don't know if Austria can impose compulsory vaccination successfully.
If it can't the idea will be quietly shelved.

Regardless no country will get all vaccinated, I'd expect once they get close to our uptake figures it will be shelved.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on November 23, 2021, 01:22:41 PM
Back to March 2020 advice from the executive in 6 counties, wash your hands, meet outdoors........ Dear fcuk
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 23, 2021, 01:26:02 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 22, 2021, 11:38:24 AM
some video going around of 100s of people in the street in cork  joe duffy probably wont say anything free from guilt and sin

Sure there was a cork hurling final too. You could pick on any of these things.

Did one of these unvaccinated gallivanters give you COVID??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 23, 2021, 01:28:48 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 23, 2021, 01:26:02 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 22, 2021, 11:38:24 AM
some video going around of 100s of people in the street in cork  joe duffy probably wont say anything free from guilt and sin

Sure there was a cork hurling final too. You could pick on any of these things.

Did one of these unvaccinated gallivanters give you COVID??

Its leading up to xmas, I'd expect people, even 100's of people to be on the streets of Cork. Possibly 1000's of people
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 23, 2021, 01:38:04 PM
How dare they.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 23, 2021, 04:34:28 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 23, 2021, 04:15:14 PM
:o :o

https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/news/denmark-sweden-spikevax-younger-people/ (https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/news/denmark-sweden-spikevax-younger-people/)

This is old news and not very interesting. As Pfizer has less side effects and is cheaper, they decided to use that instead
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 23, 2021, 11:56:53 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 23, 2021, 11:46:14 PM
More, 5 year post study on kids.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Gerard39delaney/status/1457868536957870087 (https://mobile.twitter.com/Gerard39delaney/status/1457868536957870087)

Christ  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on November 24, 2021, 12:11:44 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 24, 2021, 12:01:12 AM
And more

https://mobile.twitter.com/IvoryHecker/status/1458504347671793671 (https://mobile.twitter.com/IvoryHecker/status/1458504347671793671)
Oh I don't doubt there's more.

I don't doubt there's a lot more.

There's always a lot more from the tinfoil hat industrial bullshit machine.

I'm happy enough with the liquefied 5G networks coursing around me though.

Very calming.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 24, 2021, 12:21:07 AM
How about "previously healthy people aged in their 30s are dying each week with Covid-19"
https://mobile.twitter.com/rtenews/status/1463210669441011718
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 24, 2021, 12:12:50 PM
What's the myocarditis rates in kids who contract covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 24, 2021, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2021, 12:12:50 PM
What's the myocarditis rates in kids who contract covid?

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/the-real-risk-of-heart-inflammation-to-kids-is-from-covid-19not-the-vaccine

However, presumably they should just take this risk in the interest of "freedom".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 24, 2021, 02:14:03 PM
Who do you trust though? The national geographic or some random person on twitter  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 24, 2021, 02:18:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 24, 2021, 02:14:03 PM
Who do you trust though? The national geographic or some random person on twitter  ;D

There have only been two dozen articles in high standard peer-reviewed journals on this.
There are 40 people in the nutters Facebook group that told me otherwise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on November 24, 2021, 02:30:43 PM
"HSE's Paul Reid: "If you take the adult population, only about 7% haven't got two vaccines. That's a
highly disproportionate number of people we have in hospital -
for 7% of the adult population to represent close to 55% of our ICU capacity""

If those figures are true then it tells you that vaccines are working but I think there's a general understanding that top ups and annual vaccines will become a regular occurrence..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 24, 2021, 02:40:33 PM
There's basic maths at play here that some people really don't seem to understand (or want to understand).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on November 24, 2021, 09:37:25 PM
Japan miracle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1GF0H9V_1g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1GF0H9V_1g)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2021, 09:47:35 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 24, 2021, 02:30:43 PM
"HSE's Paul Reid: "If you take the adult population, only about 7% haven't got two vaccines. That's a
highly disproportionate number of people we have in hospital -
for 7% of the adult population to represent close to 55% of our ICU capacity""

If those figures are true then it tells you that vaccines are working but I think there's a general understanding that top ups and annual vaccines will become a regular occurrence..
LOL so 45% of the people in ICU are vaccinated and you tell us vaccines are working etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 24, 2021, 09:49:02 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 24, 2021, 09:37:25 PM
Japan miracle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1GF0H9V_1g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1GF0H9V_1g)

Ah yes, nurse John phd.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 24, 2021, 09:58:39 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2021, 09:47:35 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 24, 2021, 02:30:43 PM
"HSE's Paul Reid: "If you take the adult population, only about 7% haven't got two vaccines. That's a
highly disproportionate number of people we have in hospital -
for 7% of the adult population to represent close to 55% of our ICU capacity""

If those figures are true then it tells you that vaccines are working but I think there's a general understanding that top ups and annual vaccines will become a regular occurrence..
LOL so 45% of the people in ICU are vaccinated and you tell us vaccines are working etc.

There are very, very few, almost zero older people or people with other health problems who are unvaccinated. That means the 7% of people who're unvaccinated are young, so called healthy people. And yet out of that small number of people they still make up a sizeable majority of the icu patients. And you still think the vaccines aren't working? You're just not that bright are you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on November 24, 2021, 10:04:03 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 24, 2021, 09:49:02 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 24, 2021, 09:37:25 PM
Japan miracle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1GF0H9V_1g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1GF0H9V_1g)

Ah yes, nurse John phd.

some of the comments from Japanese people are interesting
.. does he provide proof it is actually being used..I cannot watch anymore of him putting ticks on a page
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 24, 2021, 10:21:37 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 24, 2021, 10:04:03 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 24, 2021, 09:49:02 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 24, 2021, 09:37:25 PM
Japan miracle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1GF0H9V_1g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1GF0H9V_1g)

Ah yes, nurse John phd.

some of the comments from Japanese people are interesting
.. does he provide proof it is actually being used..I cannot watch anymore of him putting ticks on a page

The disclaimer on his YouTube account should tell you everything on whether he needs proof. John's income from YouTube is fairly significant but in fairness he wouldn't have an agenda unlike MSM.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mike Tyson on November 24, 2021, 10:33:35 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2021, 09:47:35 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 24, 2021, 02:30:43 PM
"HSE's Paul Reid: "If you take the adult population, only about 7% haven't got two vaccines. That's a
highly disproportionate number of people we have in hospital -
for 7% of the adult population to represent close to 55% of our ICU capacity""

If those figures are true then it tells you that vaccines are working but I think there's a general understanding that top ups and annual vaccines will become a regular occurrence..
LOL so 45% of the people in ICU are vaccinated and you tell us vaccines are working etc.

Theoretical example. Population of 100, ICU capacity of 10.

Using the above figures, 93 people double vaccinated, 7 not.

Even go with a 50/50 split on representation in ICU. ICU contains 5 unvaccinated & 5 vaccinated.

That's 71% (5/7) of the unvaccinated in ICU & 5% (5/93) of vaccinated in ICU.

Vaccines clearly working.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 24, 2021, 11:07:48 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2021, 09:47:35 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 24, 2021, 02:30:43 PM
"HSE's Paul Reid: "If you take the adult population, only about 7% haven't got two vaccines. That's a
highly disproportionate number of people we have in hospital -
for 7% of the adult population to represent close to 55% of our ICU capacity""

If those figures are true then it tells you that vaccines are working but I think there's a general understanding that top ups and annual vaccines will become a regular occurrence..
LOL so 45% of the people in ICU are vaccinated and you tell us vaccines are working etc.

When the vaccinated 93% make up just 45% of ICU, yes, they are working. If they didn't they would make up 93% of ICU.

It's that simple.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2021, 11:10:40 PM
I thought the "etc." at the end was a giveaway that it was a joke.  ::) Must try harder.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 24, 2021, 11:31:21 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2021, 11:10:40 PM
I thought the "etc." at the end was a giveaway that it was a joke.  ::) Must try harder.

Theres that many crazy takes now its hard to distinguish sarcasm from seriousness!  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 25, 2021, 07:09:07 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 24, 2021, 11:07:48 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2021, 09:47:35 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 24, 2021, 02:30:43 PM
"HSE's Paul Reid: "If you take the adult population, only about 7% haven't got two vaccines. That's a
highly disproportionate number of people we have in hospital -
for 7% of the adult population to represent close to 55% of our ICU capacity""

If those figures are true then it tells you that vaccines are working but I think there's a general understanding that top ups and annual vaccines will become a regular occurrence..
LOL so 45% of the people in ICU are vaccinated and you tell us vaccines are working etc.

When the vaccinated 93% make up just 45% of ICU, yes, they are working. If they didn't they would make up 93% of ICU.

It's that simple.

It's not even that simple. Because the vaccinated also include all the older people and anyone with underlying health issues they should make up the majority in ICU if the vaccines weren't working. The 55% unvaccinated in ICU are from a completely different section, age wise, of the population than the 45% vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 25, 2021, 07:09:30 AM
At the very least one on here says they are, and I put this word in bold, definitely not working :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mike Tyson on November 25, 2021, 08:59:18 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 24, 2021, 11:31:21 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2021, 11:10:40 PM
I thought the "etc." at the end was a giveaway that it was a joke.  ::) Must try harder.

Theres that many crazy takes now its hard to distinguish sarcasm from seriousness!  ;D

Yep, hard to distinguish these days!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 25, 2021, 11:00:53 AM
Quote from: Mike Tyson on November 25, 2021, 08:59:18 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 24, 2021, 11:31:21 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2021, 11:10:40 PM
I thought the "etc." at the end was a giveaway that it was a joke.  ::) Must try harder.

Theres that many crazy takes now its hard to distinguish sarcasm from seriousness!  ;D

Yep, hard to distinguish these days!
Yes there are a lot of self-appointed experts out there. With the shortage of doctors and consultants out there I'm surprised they haven't applied to fill the gaps. All their own research must count for something!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NAG1 on November 25, 2021, 11:29:41 AM
Getting fed up to the back teeth on here and other social media outlets of this debate.

You can have an opinion about absolutely anything that is a basic right, but you know what they say about opinions.

This anti-fact shit started with Trump, just basically making stuff up for idiots to believe.

If you do not have a medical background, or are an expert on vaccines or pandemics, then shut the F**k up, posting and re-posting articles with no understanding of them, their origin or their authenticity is helping no one.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 25, 2021, 11:32:33 AM
Don't engage. Kill the thread. Zzz
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 25, 2021, 11:35:13 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on November 25, 2021, 11:29:41 AM
Getting fed up to the back teeth on here and other social media outlets of this debate.

You can have an opinion about absolutely anything that is a basic right, but you know what they say about opinions.

This anti-fact shit started with Trump, just basically making stuff up for idiots to believe.

If you do not have a medical background, or are an expert on vaccines or pandemics, then shut the F**k up, posting and re-posting articles with no understanding of them, their origin or their authenticity is helping no one.

I chuckle at the personal trainers, not because they have lost out on revenue, along with the hospitality trade, no, its their knowledge they have generated during lockdown, by now some of them must be working for WHO based on the posts they throw up! I'd nearly bin them only its funny to see the rabbit hole they go down
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on November 25, 2021, 02:50:58 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 24, 2021, 10:21:37 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 24, 2021, 10:04:03 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 24, 2021, 09:49:02 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 24, 2021, 09:37:25 PM
Japan miracle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1GF0H9V_1g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1GF0H9V_1g)

Ah yes, nurse John phd.

some of the comments from Japanese people are interesting
.. does he provide proof it is actually being used..I cannot watch anymore of him putting ticks on a page

The disclaimer on his YouTube account should tell you everything on whether he needs proof. John's income from YouTube is fairly significant but in fairness he wouldn't have an agenda unlike MSM.

This clowns entire argument ripped apart here - https://twitter.com/kallmemeg/status/1463493914816655361
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 25, 2021, 03:00:28 PM
Define plenty? How many?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on November 25, 2021, 03:13:38 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 25, 2021, 02:50:58 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 24, 2021, 10:21:37 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 24, 2021, 10:04:03 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on November 24, 2021, 09:49:02 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 24, 2021, 09:37:25 PM
Japan miracle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1GF0H9V_1g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1GF0H9V_1g)

Ah yes, nurse John phd.

some of the comments from Japanese people are interesting
.. does he provide proof it is actually being used..I cannot watch anymore of him putting ticks on a page

The disclaimer on his YouTube account should tell you everything on whether he needs proof. John's income from YouTube is fairly significant but in fairness he wouldn't have an agenda unlike MSM.

This clowns entire argument ripped apart here - https://twitter.com/kallmemeg/status/1463493914816655361

The fact he presents himself as Dr John on social media, despite it being effectively earning a doctorate for teaching, tells you all you need to know about his honesty. He's deliberately misleading people viewing those videos that he's a medical doctor just to get more subscribers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on November 25, 2021, 05:20:21 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 25, 2021, 02:56:15 PM
Plenty if medical experts have been policed and shut down.

Anyway, this is incredibly interesting
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/scientists-mystified-wary-as-africa-avoids-covid-19-disaster-1.5673339 (https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/scientists-mystified-wary-as-africa-avoids-covid-19-disaster-1.5673339)
Looks like the big one is coming from South Africa.

It has obliterated Delta there in jig time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 25, 2021, 05:54:00 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/new-coronavirus-variant-reason-concern-say-researchers/

A new coronavirus variant found in 22 cases in South Africa is a "reason for concern", according to researchers.
Three cases of the variant - B.1.1.529 - have also been found in Botswana and there has been one case in Hong Kong, in a patient who had recently visited South Africa.


Scientists have flagged the variant's unusually high levels of mutations, particularly in the spike protein, which the virus uses to infect cells.
Professor Tulio De Oliveira, director of the KwaZulu-Natal Research Innovation and Sequencing Platform (KRISP), said the variant had a "very unusual constellation of mutations" and was a "reason for concern" in South Africa. 
Unlike other variants, including delta, which is now dominant globally, and beta, which was detected by Prof de Oliveira's team in South Africa earlier this year, the new variant has not yet been officially classified as a variant of concern.
Advertisement
Prof De Oliveira said the significance of the variant was still unknown, with scientists monitoring it to assess whether the mutations would have an impact on transmissibility or how dangerous it is. Viruses mutate all the time, and only some of the mutations change how the virus behaves.
Another member of the KRISP team, infectious diseases expert Dr Richard Lessels, added: "There is some concern that B.1.1.529 may have enhanced transmissibility and be able to get around parts of the immune system."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 25, 2021, 07:46:26 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/chrischirp/status/1463885550633590793
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on November 25, 2021, 08:09:47 PM
the gah board has the most experts on all subjects ffs

it's obvious  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 25, 2021, 09:20:30 PM
Brexit  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 25, 2021, 09:38:56 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2021, 09:47:35 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 24, 2021, 02:30:43 PM
"HSE's Paul Reid: "If you take the adult population, only about 7% haven't got two vaccines. That's a
highly disproportionate number of people we have in hospital -
for 7% of the adult population to represent close to 55% of our ICU capacity""

If those figures are true then it tells you that vaccines are working but I think there's a general understanding that top ups and annual vaccines will become a regular occurrence..
LOL so 45% of the people in ICU are vaccinated and you tell us vaccines are working etc.

edit: Sorry, read the posts after and clear you were trying to be sarcastic. Probably not a good idea to appear a stupid c**t in a thread that has more than its fair share of them.


I'll leave this here for the benefit of the dumb f**ks that think the vaccines aren't working:

If the vaccines weren't working, then ~93% of the people in ICU would be vaccinated.

To get the numbers as they are means a fully vaccinated person is around 16 times less likely to end up in ICU as the unvaccinated/not-fully vaccinated.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on November 25, 2021, 10:34:03 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 25, 2021, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 25, 2021, 05:54:00 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/new-coronavirus-variant-reason-concern-say-researchers/

A new coronavirus variant found in 22 cases in South Africa is a "reason for concern", according to researchers.
Three cases of the variant - B.1.1.529 - have also been found in Botswana and there has been one case in Hong Kong, in a patient who had recently visited South Africa.


Scientists have flagged the variant's unusually high levels of mutations, particularly in the spike protein, which the virus uses to infect cells.
Professor Tulio De Oliveira, director of the KwaZulu-Natal Research Innovation and Sequencing Platform (KRISP), said the variant had a "very unusual constellation of mutations" and was a "reason for concern" in South Africa. 
Unlike other variants, including delta, which is now dominant globally, and beta, which was detected by Prof de Oliveira's team in South Africa earlier this year, the new variant has not yet been officially classified as a variant of concern.
Advertisement
Prof De Oliveira said the significance of the variant was still unknown, with scientists monitoring it to assess whether the mutations would have an impact on transmissibility or how dangerous it is. Viruses mutate all the time, and only some of the mutations change how the virus behaves.
Another member of the KRISP team, infectious diseases expert Dr Richard Lessels, added: "There is some concern that B.1.1.529 may have enhanced transmissibility and be able to get around parts of the immune system."


Which won't kill you unless some of you are around about the age of 82, obese or have underlying health conditions or a combo.  Take your vaccine if your in that cohort. Project fear has moved from Brexit to covid.

Social distance, wash/sanitise your hands and you'll be grand.
If you don't fear what this variant could do to societies all over the world you are asleep at the wheel.

This pandemic has a long, long time in which to play out yet.

And if this variant is as bad as it looks - and who is to say there wont be further, even worse ones, the consequences for our world are unknowable, but they are likely to be cataclysmic.

We all have a normality bias to one degree or other, it might be time to start removing it. The existential nature of this for societies just ramps ever upwards.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 25, 2021, 11:32:33 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 25, 2021, 09:38:56 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2021, 09:47:35 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 24, 2021, 02:30:43 PM
"HSE's Paul Reid: "If you take the adult population, only about 7% haven't got two vaccines. That's a
highly disproportionate number of people we have in hospital -
for 7% of the adult population to represent close to 55% of our ICU capacity""

If those figures are true then it tells you that vaccines are working but I think there's a general understanding that top ups and annual vaccines will become a regular occurrence..
LOL so 45% of the people in ICU are vaccinated and you tell us vaccines are working etc.

edit: Sorry, read the posts after and clear you were trying to be sarcastic. Probably not a good idea to appear a stupid c**t in a thread that has more than its fair share of them.


I'll leave this here for the benefit of the dumb f**ks that think the vaccines aren't working:

If the vaccines weren't working, then ~93% of the people in ICU would be vaccinated.

To get the numbers as they are means a fully vaccinated person is around 16 times less likely to end up in ICU as the unvaccinated/not-fully vaccinated.
Yes there a lot of silly silly people about. I had my booster on Monday past and the hospital was packed with people queueing which was heartening to see. Interestingly there was a father and daughter behind me and it was her getting the jab and by the sounds of their conversation he hasn't had any jabs (man in his 50s) as she was chastising him about it. No doubt the same boy would be happy to take a hospital bed if he gets Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 25, 2021, 11:54:19 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FE4ISdYXsAgqnCn?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: doodaa on November 26, 2021, 10:42:23 AM
Interesting to hear why Poland and Slovakia appear to have "low" deaths in comparison to the vaccination programme?
Have they a better than normal healthcare system, spread out population etc that limits the effect of the virus?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 26, 2021, 11:49:24 AM
Quote from: doodaa on November 26, 2021, 10:42:23 AM
Interesting to hear why Poland and Slovakia appear to have "low" deaths in comparison to the vaccination programme?
Have they a better than normal healthcare system, spread out population etc that limits the effect of the virus?
2 week lockdown in Slovakia.
Heard an unconfirmed rumour that a large proportion of unvaccinated ICU people in the 26 are East Europeans?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on November 26, 2021, 12:11:43 PM
Quote from: doodaa on November 26, 2021, 10:42:23 AM
Interesting to hear why Poland and Slovakia appear to have "low" deaths in comparison to the vaccination programme?
Have they a better than normal healthcare system, spread out population etc that limits the effect of the virus?
Poland had 497 Covid deaths yesterday. Population 38 million.

Slovakia had 71 in a population of 5.4 million.

These are not low death figures, Covid is now ravaging both countries.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: doodaa on November 26, 2021, 12:15:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 26, 2021, 12:11:43 PM
Quote from: doodaa on November 26, 2021, 10:42:23 AM
Interesting to hear why Poland and Slovakia appear to have "low" deaths in comparison to the vaccination programme?
Have they a better than normal healthcare system, spread out population etc that limits the effect of the virus?
Poland had 497 Covid deaths yesterday. Population 38 million.

Slovakia had 71 in a population of 5.4 million.

These are not low death figures, Covid is now ravaging both countries.

Hence the inverted commas.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 26, 2021, 12:48:21 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 26, 2021, 11:10:34 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 25, 2021, 11:32:33 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 25, 2021, 09:38:56 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2021, 09:47:35 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 24, 2021, 02:30:43 PM
"HSE's Paul Reid: "If you take the adult population, only about 7% haven't got two vaccines. That's a
highly disproportionate number of people we have in hospital -
for 7% of the adult population to represent close to 55% of our ICU capacity""

If those figures are true then it tells you that vaccines are working but I think there's a general understanding that top ups and annual vaccines will become a regular occurrence..
LOL so 45% of the people in ICU are vaccinated and you tell us vaccines are working etc.

edit: Sorry, read the posts after and clear you were trying to be sarcastic. Probably not a good idea to appear a stupid c**t in a thread that has more than its fair share of them.


I'll leave this here for the benefit of the dumb f**ks that think the vaccines aren't working:

If the vaccines weren't working, then ~93% of the people in ICU would be vaccinated.

To get the numbers as they are means a fully vaccinated person is around 16 times less likely to end up in ICU as the unvaccinated/not-fully vaccinated.
Yes there a lot of silly silly people about. I had my booster on Monday past and the hospital was packed with people queueing which was heartening to see. Interestingly there was a father and daughter behind me and it was her getting the jab and by the sounds of their conversation he hasn't had any jabs (man in his 50s) as she was chastising him about it. No doubt the same boy would be happy to take a hospital bed if he gets Covid.

I must confess at this stage i am now slowly moving to a position of support of privatising the NHS. I have paid serious money to the NHS over many many years, been in hospital once, so the return on my investment has been minimal, and thats fine to be truthful as its for the greater good. But the conversations I'm hearing from colleagues and also on here is making me think, will we move to a position of having to pay for your treatment if you get covid if unvaccinated? Many on here are happy to have me locked in the house and not get access to everyday things if I don't have the covid passport going forward. So once you have conceded the principle of having the right to not take a substance into your body for genuine  concerns without penalty, other basic rights can also be abused. I already pay for private health care, but as i already said I am gradually thinking privatise the whole thing so I can invest my money for my benefit and not for the Tony Balonys of the world, who get free access to the NHS as a result of my contributions and people like me. I'm definitely conflicted at the minute and the covid debate is the sole reason.

I think Tony pays plenty into the NHS, I don't get 'value' for my contributions for the time spent in hospital, but if I reflect on it, I've 3 kids, how much does it cost for that if you are paying for it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 26, 2021, 12:51:14 PM
Quote from: doodaa on November 26, 2021, 10:42:23 AM
Interesting to hear why Poland and Slovakia appear to have "low" deaths in comparison to the vaccination programme?
Have they a better than normal healthcare system, spread out population etc that limits the effect of the virus?

Death rates would be affected by the age groups vaccinated and the age structure of the population. Poland has a lot of 40-year-olds and not so many 75-85 year olds, there was stuff going on there 80 years ago that depressed the birth rate. The 40 year olds are only moderately likely to die.
Death rates would also be affected by previous infection rates.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 26, 2021, 12:52:38 PM
Friend of mine. 35ish, very fit. Would run alot of park runs etc. Hes anti vaccine, anti mask, anti lockdown.
Have had on and off arguments with him over the last year.

He cant lift his head off the pillow at the minute. Said he's never experienced anything like this in his life.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 26, 2021, 01:22:20 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 26, 2021, 11:10:34 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 25, 2021, 11:32:33 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 25, 2021, 09:38:56 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 24, 2021, 09:47:35 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 24, 2021, 02:30:43 PM
"HSE's Paul Reid: "If you take the adult population, only about 7% haven't got two vaccines. That's a
highly disproportionate number of people we have in hospital -
for 7% of the adult population to represent close to 55% of our ICU capacity""

If those figures are true then it tells you that vaccines are working but I think there's a general understanding that top ups and annual vaccines will become a regular occurrence..
LOL so 45% of the people in ICU are vaccinated and you tell us vaccines are working etc.

edit: Sorry, read the posts after and clear you were trying to be sarcastic. Probably not a good idea to appear a stupid c**t in a thread that has more than its fair share of them.


I'll leave this here for the benefit of the dumb f**ks that think the vaccines aren't working:

If the vaccines weren't working, then ~93% of the people in ICU would be vaccinated.

To get the numbers as they are means a fully vaccinated person is around 16 times less likely to end up in ICU as the unvaccinated/not-fully vaccinated.
Yes there a lot of silly silly people about. I had my booster on Monday past and the hospital was packed with people queueing which was heartening to see. Interestingly there was a father and daughter behind me and it was her getting the jab and by the sounds of their conversation he hasn't had any jabs (man in his 50s) as she was chastising him about it. No doubt the same boy would be happy to take a hospital bed if he gets Covid.

I must confess at this stage i am now slowly moving to a position of support of privatising the NHS. I have paid serious money to the NHS over many many years, been in hospital once, so the return on my investment has been minimal, and thats fine to be truthful as its for the greater good. But the conversations I'm hearing from colleagues and also on here is making me think, will we move to a position of having to pay for your treatment if you get covid if unvaccinated? Many on here are happy to have me locked in the house and not get access to everyday things if I don't have the covid passport going forward. So once you have conceded the principle of having the right to not take a substance into your body for genuine  concerns without penalty, other basic rights can also be abused. I already pay for private health care, but as i already said I am gradually thinking privatise the whole thing so I can invest my money for my benefit and not for the Tony Balonys of the world, who get free access to the NHS as a result of my contributions and people like me. I'm definitely conflicted at the minute and the covid debate is the sole reason.
There is private healthcare available without privatising the NHS. Rather than a private bed, it is more likely that the unvaccinated end up in a NHS hospital bed long-term, funded by my taxes and the taxes of all the other people who took the vaccine for their own good and good of other NHS users. No need to thank us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on November 26, 2021, 01:48:19 PM
New variant now in Europe https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/covid-new-south-african-variant-strain-lockdown-restrictions/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on November 26, 2021, 02:19:25 PM
Just over 2k cases in the North and 9 deceased over last 24 hrs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 26, 2021, 02:41:39 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on November 26, 2021, 01:48:19 PM
New variant now in Europe https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/covid-new-south-african-variant-strain-lockdown-restrictions/
Convenient...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on November 26, 2021, 02:52:06 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on November 26, 2021, 01:48:19 PM
New variant now in Europe https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/covid-new-south-african-variant-strain-lockdown-restrictions/

He left SA on the 11th. Its likely already in Ireland/UK, it just hasn't been found yet
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 26, 2021, 03:03:42 PM
It's coming if not already here as per any other variant. Great...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on November 26, 2021, 03:59:25 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on November 26, 2021, 01:48:19 PM
New variant now in Europe https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/covid-new-south-african-variant-strain-lockdown-restrictions/

Belgian case was not vaccinated and developed mild symptoms 11 days after returning from Egypt."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 26, 2021, 05:35:00 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 26, 2021, 02:41:39 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on November 26, 2021, 01:48:19 PM
New variant now in Europe https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/covid-new-south-african-variant-strain-lockdown-restrictions/
Convenient...

For who?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 26, 2021, 05:57:55 PM
Posters theorizing about a variant they no nothing about is all good anyone slightly skeptical is a Karen from Facebook .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 26, 2021, 06:23:47 PM
Nw variant is labelled όμικρον, the big O.
Omicron rules!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 26, 2021, 06:25:24 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 26, 2021, 05:35:00 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 26, 2021, 02:41:39 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on November 26, 2021, 01:48:19 PM
New variant now in Europe https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/covid-new-south-african-variant-strain-lockdown-restrictions/
Convenient...

For who?

Them ;D

Sceptical that there is another variant? If you are sceptical why are you sceptical? It was always going to happen was it not?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on November 26, 2021, 06:42:27 PM
WHO's Dr Mike Ryan, on B.1.1.529 now know as the Omicron Variant

"This happens, viruses evolve... This is not the end of the world. The sky is not falling in. There's this idea that we're just waiting for the next variant and I don't want people to spend their lives worrying about that every day."

The hospital situation in ROI

572 in hospital,  643 it was last Friday. ICU 118 no change on a week ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on November 26, 2021, 06:48:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 26, 2021, 06:25:24 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 26, 2021, 05:35:00 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 26, 2021, 02:41:39 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on November 26, 2021, 01:48:19 PM
New variant now in Europe https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/covid-new-south-african-variant-strain-lockdown-restrictions/
Convenient...

For who?

Them ;D

Sceptical that there is another variant? If you are sceptical why are you sceptical? It was always going to happen was it not?

The idea that this is "convenient" is bonkers, as if governments around the world want to lock down economies, education, social lives etc  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 26, 2021, 06:58:29 PM
Yep
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 26, 2021, 08:00:44 PM
It makes perfect sense, I've seen enough sci-fi films to see where this one is going.

Hunger games.. 

There's more

12 Monkeys

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on November 26, 2021, 08:06:13 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 26, 2021, 06:25:24 PM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on November 26, 2021, 05:35:00 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 26, 2021, 02:41:39 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on November 26, 2021, 01:48:19 PM
New variant now in Europe https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/covid-new-south-african-variant-strain-lockdown-restrictions/
Convenient...

For who?

Them ;D

Sceptical that there is another variant? If you are sceptical why are you sceptical? It was always going to happen was it not?
It's always convenient for THEM.

Which I presume means Van Morrison and his old band.

Maybe Morrison is a double agent?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 26, 2021, 09:10:45 PM
Lets not get too panicked.

Yeah, its different - yeah - its obviously more transmissible than Delta.

No one has answered whether its still as lethal as Delta yet.

For instance, if it were 10 times more transmissible and 1000 times less lethal that is probably a trade off most would be happy with.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on November 26, 2021, 10:45:02 PM
A variant with the same lethality but 50% more transmissibility than Delta is far worse for the public health situation than a virus with the same transmissibility but 50% increased lethality.

The apparent transmissibility advantage of Omicron is the big worry here.

Would be lovely if it turned out to be less lethal but that's probably a pipe dream.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on November 27, 2021, 12:14:37 AM
Twitter wins again ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 27, 2021, 12:19:50 AM
Aseem Malhotra is a British cardiologist, and public health campaigner. He is a visiting professor, author of several books and writer of articles in newspapers, who has written scores of editorials and maintains a high profile on social media and television.

When I hear publishing books, tv media, editorials and so on....I smell bullshit, I smell publicity whore
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: DrinkingHarp on November 27, 2021, 12:23:59 AM
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on November 11, 2021, 06:44:20 AM
Double vaccinated 6 months ago (Pfizer)

Had a pre work covid test on the 27th of Oct - negative

Felt like a head cold/sinus infection (no temp) Saturday and stayed like that till Tuesday, called off of work M/T had to take a covid test to go back to work today (they are really strict) - positive.

This evening noticed loss of smell, opened a spice jar of both Garlic and Cinnamon and nothing.

Wore my mask everywhere, never went out to socialize the past 2 months because I was swamped with work.

10 days off of work till next test on the 22.

So far all minor symptoms, doctor said the vaccine is more than likely keeping me this way.

Be Careful

Rapid test today and I am now Covid negative.

Still exhausted and a cough but feeling better than last week. Walking three floors to my flat is tiring so I will have to build up my strength again. I feel I was lucky as my vaccinations helped and couldn't imagine going through it without being vaccinated.

Keep safe and mask up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on November 27, 2021, 12:26:36 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on November 26, 2021, 06:42:27 PM
572 in hospital,  643 it was last Friday. ICU 118 no change on a week ago.

Down to 519 as of 8pm this evening. Its was 682 on Sunday night, that's a 24% decrease in 5 days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on November 27, 2021, 12:42:27 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 27, 2021, 12:19:50 AM
Aseem Malhotra is a British cardiologist, and public health campaigner. He is a visiting professor, author of several books and writer of articles in newspapers, who has written scores of editorials and maintains a high profile on social media and television.

When I hear publishing books, tv media, editorials and so on....I smell bullshit, I smell publicity whore
He's a grifter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 27, 2021, 09:41:02 AM
Used to love hearing advertisements in the states when they were promoting medication.....

Told you all the benefits, then at the very end, at about 100 mph, explained the 20 or so side effects...

Unfortunately everything has side effects
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 27, 2021, 10:41:29 AM
https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2021.26.47.2101021
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 27, 2021, 12:05:43 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/munster-to-quarantine-for-10-days-on-return-from-south-africa-1.4740071

The Munster rugby squad, coaching and backroom teams will have to quarantine at home for 10 days on their arrival back in Ireland from South Africa according to Government guidelines.

The Minister for Health Stephen Donnelly confirmed that in the wake of the new Covid-19 variant, Omicron, anyone returning to the country from seven southern African countries regardless of vaccine, recovery or PCR test status will have to quarantine at home.

People will have to take two PCR tests during their quarantine period. Donnelly was asked specifically about the Munster contingent and said that the measures apply "regardless of status."

Johann van Graan's squad travelled to South Africa and were due to play two matches in the United Rugby Championship (URC), against the Bulls and the Lions both of which have been postponed and will be rescheduled for later in the season.

A more pressing concern for Munster is trying to get home and on Friday night there was no firm confirmation of when that would be possible. Once repatriated, a 10-day quarantine will severely disrupt preparations for the opening Heineken Champions Cup against Wasps at the Ricoh Arena in Coventry on Sunday, December 12th.

It would also mean that Munster would not have played a match in seven weeks ahead of their scheduled fixture against the English Premiership side.

A URC statement read: "Due to the sudden developments connected with the new Covid-19 variant (B.1.1.529) that have immediately placed a number of countries, including South Africa, on the UK and EU travel red lists, the scheduled Round 6 and 7 United Rugby Championship fixtures set to take place in South Africa over the next two weekends have been postponed and will be rescheduled later this season.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 27, 2021, 01:59:24 PM
The Barbarians match is off. Munster's matches are off, cricket qualifiers are cancelled.
Not what anyone was expecting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on November 27, 2021, 04:26:40 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 27, 2021, 04:22:58 PM
https://www.thejournal.ie/germany-omicron-suspected-case-covid-19-south-africa-5613843-Nov2021/?utm_source=shortlink (https://www.thejournal.ie/germany-omicron-suspected-case-covid-19-south-africa-5613843-Nov2021/?utm_source=shortlink)

61 random positive cases on Dutch flight yesterday which shows how absolutely useless vaccine passports are as I assume they all produced a test or passport. All so we can prove the "new variant" is on the way and we can all be told to shit ourselves.

Is anyone shitting themselves? Is this the new symptom? Big rolls will be in short supply
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 27, 2021, 05:14:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 27, 2021, 01:59:24 PM
The Barbarians match is off. Munster's matches are off, cricket qualifiers are cancelled.
Not what anyone was expecting.
100k at Michigan v Ohio state game today , tune in take your mind off things .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on November 27, 2021, 07:04:16 PM
Fairly rapid action from the UK Government for a change on Travel, with other things for England that the rest of the UK have been doing anyway.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-59443504
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 27, 2021, 08:35:02 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/d42bcd3d-e70d-4e97-818b-40b92d89d7ff

Named Omicron by the World Health Organization on Friday, it is the latest in an ever-growing line of more than 1,500 recognised lineages of the Sars-Cov-2 virus to emerge since the pandemic began.
The question of whether a more transmissible, more deadly or even vaccine-resistant strain could replace the dominant Delta coronavirus variant, which emerged in India late last year, is one that keeps scientists and health officials on high alert. "Has Sars-Cov-2 tried all its tricks? You'd have to be pretty cavalier to believe that," said Gavin Screaton, an immunologist and head of Oxford university's Medical Sciences Division.
Typically, these mutations fizzle out, but each one comes with the remote possibility of the virus becoming fitter, possibly enabling it to produce a higher viral load, bind more easily to cells in the airways or evade the body's immune defences.




Now, with global first-dose coverage of more than 53 per cent and about 30m jabs being administered globally each day, the virus' next move was "less cut and dried". "It could become yet more transmissible or find ways of evading our immune response — or do both," she said.

Some say transmissibility has already peaked. Francois Balloux, director of the University College London Genetics Institute, said the R0 — the reproduction number in a completely exposed population — of the endemic coronaviruses circulating before Sars-Cov-2 topped out at 7, following decades of natural selection.
As Delta has an R0 of between 6 and 7 — which is more than double that of the original strain that emerged from Wuhan, China — the dominant variant may not have "much room to become more contagious in the short term", he said.
Balloux predicted Sars-Cov-2 would fall into a pattern where it "slowly evolves a way around the immune system" over the course of a decade rather than "continual jumps in transmissibility". The same, drawn-out evolution can be observed in influenza and seasonal coronaviruses.
"The key question to be answered is what exactly is the [variant's] effect on the vaccines," he added.
Slawomir Kubik, a genomics research expert at Geneva-based biotech Sophia Genetics, stressed that the "fitness" of a variant can only be judged by how it "spreads in the real world".

"It's about the genes, the environment and a degree of luck . . . If you have an 'advantageous' mutation but never pass it on, it will never spread," he said.
"Vaccines are a godsend in their ability to stop infections and severe disease, but paradoxically they also increase the need for us to monitor for these very specific, targeted mutations," he said.

"Will we move to something where the virus alters its antigenicity and erodes vaccine efficacy? I think that's likely to happen," he said. "If the virus is faced with the binary choice of evolving or going extinct, it will evolve."

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 27, 2021, 09:31:18 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on November 27, 2021, 09:32:34 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 27, 2021, 12:14:37 AM
Twitter wins again ::)

No that wasn't twitter talking but a cardiologist Doctor.  msm decide the story. Unfortunately whether we like it or not, there are side effects for a very small minority. That story shouldn't be buried. However what  is definitely for sure, time will tell.
A few thousand die each year from taking aspirin but people keep taking it. The upsides of it outweigh the downsides.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 28, 2021, 12:55:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 26, 2021, 10:45:02 PM
A variant with the same lethality but 50% more transmissibility than Delta is far worse for the public health situation than a virus with the same transmissibility but 50% increased lethality.

The apparent transmissibility advantage of Omicron is the big worry here.

Would be lovely if it turned out to be less lethal but that's probably a pipe dream.

Well, the thing that initially perked my interest was no reported increase in admission rates in South Africa (and I suppose neighbours too).

Maybe not such a pipe dream. Here's hoping!!!

QuoteShould the new variant prove to be highly transmissible, there are fears that a fourth wave could materialise – and in a more dangerous form than had been anticipated.

However, Dr Angelique Coetzee, chair of the South African Medical Association and a practising GP based in Pretoria, said it was "premature" to make predictions of a health crisis.

"It's all speculation at this stage. It may be it's highly transmissible, but so far the cases we are seeing are extremely mild," she said. "Maybe two weeks from now I will have a different opinion, but this is what we are seeing. So are we seriously worried? No. We are concerned and we watch what's happening. But for now we're saying, 'OK: there's a whole hype out there. [We're] not sure why.'"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/26/south-africa-b11529-covid-variant-vaccination


[BTW, just to note - I don't agree with the general gist of the article with SA complaining about other govts acting prematurely. There simply isn't time to fck around discussing it in committee if you want to stop spread. Even as it was, they've moved too slow.]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on November 28, 2021, 01:17:29 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 28, 2021, 12:55:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 26, 2021, 10:45:02 PM
A variant with the same lethality but 50% more transmissibility than Delta is far worse for the public health situation than a virus with the same transmissibility but 50% increased lethality.

The apparent transmissibility advantage of Omicron is the big worry here.

Would be lovely if it turned out to be less lethal but that's probably a pipe dream.

Well, the thing that initially perked my interest was no reported increase in admission rates in South Africa (and I suppose neighbours too).

Maybe not such a pipe dream. Here's hoping!!!

QuoteShould the new variant prove to be highly transmissible, there are fears that a fourth wave could materialise – and in a more dangerous form than had been anticipated.

However, Dr Angelique Coetzee, chair of the South African Medical Association and a practising GP based in Pretoria, said it was "premature" to make predictions of a health crisis.

"It's all speculation at this stage. It may be it's highly transmissible, but so far the cases we are seeing are extremely mild," she said. "Maybe two weeks from now I will have a different opinion, but this is what we are seeing. So are we seriously worried? No. We are concerned and we watch what's happening. But for now we're saying, 'OK: there's a whole hype out there. [We're] not sure why.'"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/26/south-africa-b11529-covid-variant-vaccination


[BTW, just to note - I don't agree with the general gist of the article with SA complaining about other govts acting prematurely. There simply isn't time to fck around discussing it in committee if you want to stop spread. Even as it was, they've moved too slow.]

The msm again had the the main story on breakingnews last night from NPHET saying it was too early to say much about Omicron... scaring people again 😬
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 28, 2021, 01:44:30 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 28, 2021, 01:17:29 PM
The msm again had the the main story on breakingnews last night from NPHET saying it was too early to say much about Omicron... scaring people again 😬

It's better to scare folks initially into being careful and ease off later rather than try and shut the door after the horse has bolted.

It *is* too early to say much about omicron - my previous post obviously has a massive qualification on it in that regard.

But Omicron didn't just start to exist last week - and there has (to my knowledge) - been no reported massive increase in hospital admissions (or admission rates) in the areas Omicron is now supposedly prevalent.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on November 28, 2021, 02:09:33 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 28, 2021, 01:44:30 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on November 28, 2021, 01:17:29 PM
The msm again had the the main story on breakingnews last night from NPHET saying it was too early to say much about Omicron... scaring people again 😬

It's better to scare folks initially into being careful and ease off later rather than try and shut the door after the horse has bolted.

It *is* too early to say much about omicron - my previous post obviously has a massive qualification on it in that regard.

But Omicron didn't just start to exist last week - and there has (to my knowledge) - been no reported massive increase in hospital admissions (or admission rates) in the areas Omicron is now supposedly prevalent.

gaagaa my post was just to remind the posters who say MSM are scaremongering and not reporting the truth that once again their false narrative is exposed...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on November 28, 2021, 03:21:41 PM
Been a long time since I've been afraid of this virus or it's variant buddies!

........... and thank god for that. I live my life, while I am alive.

My fear is of a totally different threat!





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on November 28, 2021, 03:36:12 PM
breakingnews (MSM) again stroking to the flames of fear with this headline... "Some 'panicking unnecessarily' over Omicron, doctor who found variant says" 

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on November 28, 2021, 10:58:31 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 28, 2021, 12:55:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 26, 2021, 10:45:02 PM
A variant with the same lethality but 50% more transmissibility than Delta is far worse for the public health situation than a virus with the same transmissibility but 50% increased lethality.

The apparent transmissibility advantage of Omicron is the big worry here.

Would be lovely if it turned out to be less lethal but that's probably a pipe dream.

Well, the thing that initially perked my interest was no reported increase in admission rates in South Africa (and I suppose neighbours too).

Maybe not such a pipe dream. Here's hoping!!!

Admissions rising sharply in and around Johannesburg, though. Up 300% in two weeks, but from a very low base.

Weeks away from even beginning to understand how this'll play out. All just shite talk until then. Including this post.

(https://i.ibb.co/6gdPNvN/SA.png)

https://www.nicd.ac.za/diseases-a-z-index/disease-index-covid-19/surveillance-reports/daily-hospital-surveillance-datcov-report/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 29, 2021, 09:22:42 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on November 28, 2021, 10:58:31 PM
Admissions rising sharply in and around Johannesburg, though. Up 300% in two weeks, but from a very low base.

Weeks away from even beginning to understand how this'll play out. All just shite talk until then. Including this post.

Ah bollocks.

Hopefully a dying kick from Delta.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 30, 2021, 08:21:49 AM
https://www.irishcentral.com/news/antonio-mureddu-anti-axxer-charges-covid19-death (https://www.irishcentral.com/news/antonio-mureddu-anti-axxer-charges-covid19-death)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 30, 2021, 12:49:40 PM
No need to worry about Omicron.

The word from various Republican and Fox News personalities is that its all a hoax, dreamed up by the Democratic party in the US, to aid in their mid-term election campaign, 11+ months from now. ::)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on November 30, 2021, 01:12:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2021, 12:49:40 PM
No need to worry about Omicron.

The word from various Republican and Fox News personalities is that its all a hoax, dreamed up by the Democratic party in the US, to aid in their mid-term election campaign, 11+ months from now. ::)
Shure wouldn't ya know it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 30, 2021, 01:34:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2021, 12:49:40 PM
No need to worry about Omicron.

The word from various Republican and Fox News personalities is that its all a hoax, dreamed up by the Democratic party in the US, to aid in their mid-term election campaign, 11+ months from now. ::)

I read a better one today on twitter - omicron b is an anagram for no crimbo. Coincidence? ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on November 30, 2021, 01:54:21 PM
Anagram for moronic

"THEYRE LAUGHING AT US" - so say all my friends on the fb 😉😃
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Truth hurts on November 30, 2021, 02:57:34 PM
another high figure today, we cant seem to get it under control.l. I think the schools need to close early for christmas
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on November 30, 2021, 03:50:09 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 29, 2021, 09:22:42 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on November 28, 2021, 10:58:31 PM
Admissions rising sharply in and around Johannesburg, though. Up 300% in two weeks, but from a very low base.

Weeks away from even beginning to understand how this'll play out. All just shite talk until then. Including this post.

Ah bollocks.

Hopefully a dying kick from Delta.

(https://i.ibb.co/YpbN3BJ/FFc-Pxp-RXs-AIou6-G.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ChWwzK4)

Quick notes:
• For cases to be rising faster while admissions are on same pace may hint at a lower proportion of severe disease
• But this may also simply be the result of more infection-acquired immunity and vax
• Or of cases so far being predominantly younger people
• Share of patients in ICU currently much lower than same stage of Delta wave, but may change if cases spread from being mainly young. Or may not, which would suggest T and B cells kicking in

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1465659957546782725?s=20
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on November 30, 2021, 05:16:10 PM
The Bundesliga could be going back to playing in empty stadiums ,to curb the threat of the 4th wave .

https://t.co/lPcotKipZZ?amp=1
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on November 30, 2021, 05:27:41 PM
Regardless of which side your on ... I reckon this is worth 30 minutes of anyones time even if its just to test their own current beliefs about this whole hashter (including how they perceive 'the other side')

QuotePaul Kingsnorth sees the vaccine wars as symptomatic of a bigger division between two fundamentally different world views: he calls them "thesis" and "antithesis." When it comes to Covid, "thesis" is the establishment viewpoint: that lockdowns are needed to contain the virus, masks work, vaccines are safe, and people who question them are wrongheaded or worse. When Covid-19 first struck, Kingsnorth took the "thesis" viewpoint.

But over the last few months, his perspective changed. As he  in today's UnHerd, the crystallising moment arrived when he woke up to the news that the Austrian government had 'interned an entire third of the population'. This move, he writes, sent a 'chill down my spine'.

The "antithesis" view can be summed up as: lockdowns are not needed, masks do not work, the safety and efficacy of the vaccines are being oversold, vaccine passports will not only fail but further segregate society, and in the near future we can expect Giradian scapegoating of the unvaccinated. In other words, we are positioned on the precipice of a slippery slope that leads towards increasingly draconian biopolitical control measures, the grip of which is unlikely to release even once the pandemic is over.

In a conversation with Freddie Sayers on this week's UnHerdTV, he explains this division and the bigger epistemological divides it reveals. "People are arguing about vaccines," he says, "but they're really under the surface arguing about what kind of person you are if you have taken these things, whether you're a good or a bad person, or clean or unclean one".

In Kingsnorth's view, each of us has a line that cannot be crossed. And his has now been reached.


https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SEIY0kLpuYK2nziSgLPsI?si=yTAWV8x6QDu6qMtZB7dWvw&utm_source=native-share-menu (https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SEIY0kLpuYK2nziSgLPsI?si=yTAWV8x6QDu6qMtZB7dWvw&utm_source=native-share-menu)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on November 30, 2021, 06:01:44 PM
Surely its not that black and white though?

I've issues myself with the idea of just locking down the unvaccinated, but that doesn't mean I'm now aligned with the antivax/anti-mask, "its all a conspiracy to take away our freedoms" shower.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on November 30, 2021, 06:17:48 PM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on November 28, 2021, 10:58:31 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on November 28, 2021, 12:55:25 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 26, 2021, 10:45:02 PM
A variant with the same lethality but 50% more transmissibility than Delta is far worse for the public health situation than a virus with the same transmissibility but 50% increased lethality.

The apparent transmissibility advantage of Omicron is the big worry here.

Would be lovely if it turned out to be less lethal but that's probably a pipe dream.

Well, the thing that initially perked my interest was no reported increase in admission rates in South Africa (and I suppose neighbours too).

Maybe not such a pipe dream. Here's hoping!!!

Admissions rising sharply in and around Johannesburg, though. Up 300% in two weeks, but from a very low base.

Weeks away from even beginning to understand how this'll play out. All just shite talk until then. Including this post.

(https://i.ibb.co/6gdPNvN/SA.png)

https://www.nicd.ac.za/diseases-a-z-index/disease-index-covid-19/surveillance-reports/daily-hospital-surveillance-datcov-report/

Just heard that the vaccination rate in South Africa is 28%, not sure anyone can come up with an exact correlation between that # and the spread of the current Omicron variant, but you would figure it has to be a factor.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 30, 2021, 06:22:13 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 30, 2021, 05:27:41 PM
Regardless of which side your on ... I reckon this is worth 30 minutes of anyones time even if its just to test their own current beliefs about this whole hashter (including how they perceive 'the other side')

QuotePaul Kingsnorth sees the vaccine wars as symptomatic of a bigger division between two fundamentally different world views: he calls them "thesis" and "antithesis." When it comes to Covid, "thesis" is the establishment viewpoint: that lockdowns are needed to contain the virus, masks work, vaccines are safe, and people who question them are wrongheaded or worse. When Covid-19 first struck, Kingsnorth took the "thesis" viewpoint.

But over the last few months, his perspective changed. As he  in today's UnHerd, the crystallising moment arrived when he woke up to the news that the Austrian government had 'interned an entire third of the population'. This move, he writes, sent a 'chill down my spine'.

The "antithesis" view can be summed up as: lockdowns are not needed, masks do not work, the safety and efficacy of the vaccines are being oversold, vaccine passports will not only fail but further segregate society, and in the near future we can expect Giradian scapegoating of the unvaccinated. In other words, we are positioned on the precipice of a slippery slope that leads towards increasingly draconian biopolitical control measures, the grip of which is unlikely to release even once the pandemic is over.

In a conversation with Freddie Sayers on this week's UnHerdTV, he explains this division and the bigger epistemological divides it reveals. "People are arguing about vaccines," he says, "but they're really under the surface arguing about what kind of person you are if you have taken these things, whether you're a good or a bad person, or clean or unclean one".

In Kingsnorth's view, each of us has a line that cannot be crossed. And his has now been reached.


https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SEIY0kLpuYK2nziSgLPsI?si=yTAWV8x6QDu6qMtZB7dWvw&utm_source=native-share-menu (https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SEIY0kLpuYK2nziSgLPsI?si=yTAWV8x6QDu6qMtZB7dWvw&utm_source=native-share-menu)

It's not the establishment view though to have lockdowns. It's the view of expert scientists. The establishment in the UK for example have had to be dragged kicking and screaming into imposing restrictions. Even at the moment with the omicron variant they're delaying taking any real action in spite of some alarming initial data. The establishment in Britain has totally given up on masks also in spite of overwhelming evidence that they have a massive impact on reducing transmission. Johnson has not worn a mask in public for months and months even on visits to hospitals. I really don't understand the point that you're trying to make.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on November 30, 2021, 06:55:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2021, 06:01:44 PM
Surely its not that black and white though?

I've issues myself with the idea of just locking down the unvaccinated, but that doesn't mean I'm now aligned with the antivax/anti-mask, "its all a conspiracy to take away our freedoms" shower.

Exactly. Genuine unhappiness has caused a bit of a shift towards being "anti vax" too. It's not just as simple as anti vaccine. A lot who are anti vaccine wouldn't know the first thing about vaccines and in reality a lot who are for vaccines wouldn't know the first thing either. (Which tbh IMO is fine). Then there are things like misinformation campaigns going on too and there are pretty significant misinformation campaigns going on too.

There could be a lot of research and papers on this for years to come if it ever ends. A mistrust of news, an unhappiness with life due to lockdowns, different people can be easily swayed too.

I don't think lockdowns are the way for anything. At a time I think they were needed but I don't think that time is now. If there is to be a lockdown then provide evidence the areas being locked down are causing issues. I still think places that aren't sticking to guidelines and providing safe environments should be fined and/or shutdown too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on November 30, 2021, 08:09:02 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 30, 2021, 05:27:41 PM
Regardless of which side your on ... I reckon this is worth 30 minutes of anyones time even if its just to test their own current beliefs about this whole hashter (including how they perceive 'the other side')

QuotePaul Kingsnorth sees the vaccine wars as symptomatic of a bigger division between two fundamentally different world views: he calls them "thesis" and "antithesis." When it comes to Covid, "thesis" is the establishment viewpoint: that lockdowns are needed to contain the virus, masks work, vaccines are safe, and people who question them are wrongheaded or worse. When Covid-19 first struck, Kingsnorth took the "thesis" viewpoint.

But over the last few months, his perspective changed. As he  in today's UnHerd, the crystallising moment arrived when he woke up to the news that the Austrian government had 'interned an entire third of the population'. This move, he writes, sent a 'chill down my spine'.

The "antithesis" view can be summed up as: lockdowns are not needed, masks do not work, the safety and efficacy of the vaccines are being oversold, vaccine passports will not only fail but further segregate society, and in the near future we can expect Giradian scapegoating of the unvaccinated. In other words, we are positioned on the precipice of a slippery slope that leads towards increasingly draconian biopolitical control measures, the grip of which is unlikely to release even once the pandemic is over.

In a conversation with Freddie Sayers on this week's UnHerdTV, he explains this division and the bigger epistemological divides it reveals. "People are arguing about vaccines," he says, "but they're really under the surface arguing about what kind of person you are if you have taken these things, whether you're a good or a bad person, or clean or unclean one".

In Kingsnorth's view, each of us has a line that cannot be crossed. And his has now been reached.


https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SEIY0kLpuYK2nziSgLPsI?si=yTAWV8x6QDu6qMtZB7dWvw&utm_source=native-share-menu (https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SEIY0kLpuYK2nziSgLPsI?si=yTAWV8x6QDu6qMtZB7dWvw&utm_source=native-share-menu)

Thanks for posting that up. He was able to articulate his thoughts, ideas and arguments in a way i could never do.
       
       
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 30, 2021, 08:43:51 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 30, 2021, 05:27:41 PM
Regardless of which side your on ... I reckon this is worth 30 minutes of anyones time even if its just to test their own current beliefs about this whole hashter (including how they perceive 'the other side')

QuotePaul Kingsnorth sees the vaccine wars as symptomatic of a bigger division between two fundamentally different world views: he calls them "thesis" and "antithesis." When it comes to Covid, "thesis" is the establishment viewpoint: that lockdowns are needed to contain the virus, masks work, vaccines are safe, and people who question them are wrongheaded or worse. When Covid-19 first struck, Kingsnorth took the "thesis" viewpoint.

But over the last few months, his perspective changed. As he  in today's UnHerd, the crystallising moment arrived when he woke up to the news that the Austrian government had 'interned an entire third of the population'. This move, he writes, sent a 'chill down my spine'.

The "antithesis" view can be summed up as: lockdowns are not needed, masks do not work, the safety and efficacy of the vaccines are being oversold, vaccine passports will not only fail but further segregate society, and in the near future we can expect Giradian scapegoating of the unvaccinated. In other words, we are positioned on the precipice of a slippery slope that leads towards increasingly draconian biopolitical control measures, the grip of which is unlikely to release even once the pandemic is over.

In a conversation with Freddie Sayers on this week's UnHerdTV, he explains this division and the bigger epistemological divides it reveals. "People are arguing about vaccines," he says, "but they're really under the surface arguing about what kind of person you are if you have taken these things, whether you're a good or a bad person, or clean or unclean one".

In Kingsnorth's view, each of us has a line that cannot be crossed. And his has now been reached.


https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SEIY0kLpuYK2nziSgLPsI?si=yTAWV8x6QDu6qMtZB7dWvw&utm_source=native-share-menu (https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SEIY0kLpuYK2nziSgLPsI?si=yTAWV8x6QDu6qMtZB7dWvw&utm_source=native-share-menu)

I don't have half an hour to burn, and definitely don't have it to waste.
If he can't be f**ked transcribing it for a skim read, I sure as hell can't be f**ked listening to 29 minutes of durge for 1 minute of information.



But in dealing with the key issue that surrounds all this - how can he say medical science justifies lockdowns, vaccines masks etc one minute - then turn around a minute later and say they aren't.

Medical science did not change one bit in those two minutes.

His opinion on whether it was politically acceptable or not changed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hereiam on November 30, 2021, 08:53:36 PM
I see the brits are not going to administer the booster until the end of January, why are we being told to get the booster now, are we being used as guinea pigs or is Boris waiting on a better booster to be developed which will be effective against this mutation.
Its being a thing that has worried me a bit throughout this pandemic is that these vaccinations in the north have been rolled out quicker than England Scotland or Wales, usually we are last on the list.
Not anti-vax by the way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 30, 2021, 09:18:44 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on November 30, 2021, 08:53:36 PM
I see the brits are not going to administer the booster until the end of January, why are we being told to get the booster now, are we being used as guinea pigs or is Boris waiting on a better booster to be developed which will be effective against this mutation.
Its being a thing that has worried me a bit throughout this pandemic is that these vaccinations in the north have been rolled out quicker than England Scotland or Wales, usually we are last on the list.
Not anti-vax by the way.
Wouldn't be in any mad rush to get a booster myself. Thought England, Scotland and Wales all vaccinated people at the same rate the north did the first time?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on November 30, 2021, 09:45:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 30, 2021, 06:01:44 PM
Surely its not that black and white though?

I've issues myself with the idea of just locking down the unvaccinated, but that doesn't mean I'm now aligned with the antivax/anti-mask, "its all a conspiracy to take away our freedoms" shower.

I think he did address that grey area though, if you listened to it through.
          As he said, for a lot of people the covid vaccination(s) themselves are not the real issue. It is rather the method by which governments have implemented covid policies which now seen to be specifically targeting a minority section of society and this move towards digital health certification and a social credit system.
         I think at the core of each side's argument, is a fundamental belief that they are both trying to protect society and do good. That's why the interaction between the two sides is so caustic on here.
         
         
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on November 30, 2021, 09:49:19 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on November 30, 2021, 08:53:36 PM
I see the brits are not going to administer the booster until the end of January, why are we being told to get the booster now, are we being used as guinea pigs or is Boris waiting on a better booster to be developed which will be effective against this mutation.
Its being a thing that has worried me a bit throughout this pandemic is that these vaccinations in the north have been rolled out quicker than England Scotland or Wales, usually we are last on the list.
Not anti-vax by the way.

They intend to finish offering everyone the booster by the end of January. They do not intend begin offering everyone the booster by the end of January.

Over 18 million Brits have already had a booster. They're doing 2.5 million a week.

Everything in this post is incorrect. This inability to accurately process information should be what is at the forefront of your worries.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on November 30, 2021, 10:38:16 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on November 30, 2021, 08:53:36 PM
I see the brits are not going to administer the booster until the end of January, why are we being told to get the booster now, are we being used as guinea pigs or is Boris waiting on a better booster to be developed which will be effective against this mutation.
Its being a thing that has worried me a bit throughout this pandemic is that these vaccinations in the north have been rolled out quicker than England Scotland or Wales, usually we are last on the list.
Not anti-vax by the way.

You will be when the sh*te hits the fan!

Trust your intuition, it's amazing how good a subliminal judge it is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 01, 2021, 07:47:24 AM
What shite?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NAG1 on December 01, 2021, 08:04:10 AM
Quote from: grounded on November 30, 2021, 08:09:02 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 30, 2021, 05:27:41 PM
Regardless of which side your on ... I reckon this is worth 30 minutes of anyones time even if its just to test their own current beliefs about this whole hashter (including how they perceive 'the other side')

QuotePaul Kingsnorth sees the vaccine wars as symptomatic of a bigger division between two fundamentally different world views: he calls them "thesis" and "antithesis." When it comes to Covid, "thesis" is the establishment viewpoint: that lockdowns are needed to contain the virus, masks work, vaccines are safe, and people who question them are wrongheaded or worse. When Covid-19 first struck, Kingsnorth took the "thesis" viewpoint.

But over the last few months, his perspective changed. As he  in today's UnHerd, the crystallising moment arrived when he woke up to the news that the Austrian government had 'interned an entire third of the population'. This move, he writes, sent a 'chill down my spine'.

The "antithesis" view can be summed up as: lockdowns are not needed, masks do not work, the safety and efficacy of the vaccines are being oversold, vaccine passports will not only fail but further segregate society, and in the near future we can expect Giradian scapegoating of the unvaccinated. In other words, we are positioned on the precipice of a slippery slope that leads towards increasingly draconian biopolitical control measures, the grip of which is unlikely to release even once the pandemic is over.

In a conversation with Freddie Sayers on this week's UnHerdTV, he explains this division and the bigger epistemological divides it reveals. "People are arguing about vaccines," he says, "but they're really under the surface arguing about what kind of person you are if you have taken these things, whether you're a good or a bad person, or clean or unclean one".

In Kingsnorth's view, each of us has a line that cannot be crossed. And his has now been reached.


https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SEIY0kLpuYK2nziSgLPsI?si=yTAWV8x6QDu6qMtZB7dWvw&utm_source=native-share-menu (https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SEIY0kLpuYK2nziSgLPsI?si=yTAWV8x6QDu6qMtZB7dWvw&utm_source=native-share-menu)

Thanks for posting that up. He was able to articulate his thoughts, ideas and arguments in a way i could never do.
       
     

A writer so again a bullshit non scientific OPINION.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on December 01, 2021, 08:14:17 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on December 01, 2021, 08:04:10 AM
Quote from: grounded on November 30, 2021, 08:09:02 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 30, 2021, 05:27:41 PM
Regardless of which side your on ... I reckon this is worth 30 minutes of anyones time even if its just to test their own current beliefs about this whole hashter (including how they perceive 'the other side')

QuotePaul Kingsnorth sees the vaccine wars as symptomatic of a bigger division between two fundamentally different world views: he calls them "thesis" and "antithesis." When it comes to Covid, "thesis" is the establishment viewpoint: that lockdowns are needed to contain the virus, masks work, vaccines are safe, and people who question them are wrongheaded or worse. When Covid-19 first struck, Kingsnorth took the "thesis" viewpoint.

But over the last few months, his perspective changed. As he  in today's UnHerd, the crystallising moment arrived when he woke up to the news that the Austrian government had 'interned an entire third of the population'. This move, he writes, sent a 'chill down my spine'.

The "antithesis" view can be summed up as: lockdowns are not needed, masks do not work, the safety and efficacy of the vaccines are being oversold, vaccine passports will not only fail but further segregate society, and in the near future we can expect Giradian scapegoating of the unvaccinated. In other words, we are positioned on the precipice of a slippery slope that leads towards increasingly draconian biopolitical control measures, the grip of which is unlikely to release even once the pandemic is over.

In a conversation with Freddie Sayers on this week's UnHerdTV, he explains this division and the bigger epistemological divides it reveals. "People are arguing about vaccines," he says, "but they're really under the surface arguing about what kind of person you are if you have taken these things, whether you're a good or a bad person, or clean or unclean one".

In Kingsnorth's view, each of us has a line that cannot be crossed. And his has now been reached.


https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SEIY0kLpuYK2nziSgLPsI?si=yTAWV8x6QDu6qMtZB7dWvw&utm_source=native-share-menu (https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SEIY0kLpuYK2nziSgLPsI?si=yTAWV8x6QDu6qMtZB7dWvw&utm_source=native-share-menu)

Thanks for posting that up. He was able to articulate his thoughts, ideas and arguments in a way i could never do.
       
     

A writer so again a bullshit non scientific OPINION.

Did you even listen to it? 
    Anyway i suppose masking up our kids in primary school will be a real success.
    I suppose those children that get vaccinated might be allowed to take them off. That would be a quare incentive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 01, 2021, 09:14:16 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 30, 2021, 10:38:16 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on November 30, 2021, 08:53:36 PM
I see the brits are not going to administer the booster until the end of January, why are we being told to get the booster now, are we being used as guinea pigs or is Boris waiting on a better booster to be developed which will be effective against this mutation.
Its being a thing that has worried me a bit throughout this pandemic is that these vaccinations in the north have been rolled out quicker than England Scotland or Wales, usually we are last on the list.
Not anti-vax by the way.

You will be when the sh*te hits the fan!

Trust your intuition, it's amazing how good a subliminal judge it is.

There's the problem right there. Eddie from down the road that hasn't a clue what day of the week it is, should follow his intuition rather than the advise of medical experts the world over. That's the logic your up against.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 01, 2021, 11:46:36 AM
Quote from: grounded on December 01, 2021, 08:14:17 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on December 01, 2021, 08:04:10 AM
Quote from: grounded on November 30, 2021, 08:09:02 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 30, 2021, 05:27:41 PM
Regardless of which side your on ... I reckon this is worth 30 minutes of anyones time even if its just to test their own current beliefs about this whole hashter (including how they perceive 'the other side')

QuotePaul Kingsnorth sees the vaccine wars as symptomatic of a bigger division between two fundamentally different world views: he calls them "thesis" and "antithesis." When it comes to Covid, "thesis" is the establishment viewpoint: that lockdowns are needed to contain the virus, masks work, vaccines are safe, and people who question them are wrongheaded or worse. When Covid-19 first struck, Kingsnorth took the "thesis" viewpoint.

But over the last few months, his perspective changed. As he  in today's UnHerd, the crystallising moment arrived when he woke up to the news that the Austrian government had 'interned an entire third of the population'. This move, he writes, sent a 'chill down my spine'.

The "antithesis" view can be summed up as: lockdowns are not needed, masks do not work, the safety and efficacy of the vaccines are being oversold, vaccine passports will not only fail but further segregate society, and in the near future we can expect Giradian scapegoating of the unvaccinated. In other words, we are positioned on the precipice of a slippery slope that leads towards increasingly draconian biopolitical control measures, the grip of which is unlikely to release even once the pandemic is over.

In a conversation with Freddie Sayers on this week's UnHerdTV, he explains this division and the bigger epistemological divides it reveals. "People are arguing about vaccines," he says, "but they're really under the surface arguing about what kind of person you are if you have taken these things, whether you're a good or a bad person, or clean or unclean one".

In Kingsnorth's view, each of us has a line that cannot be crossed. And his has now been reached.


https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SEIY0kLpuYK2nziSgLPsI?si=yTAWV8x6QDu6qMtZB7dWvw&utm_source=native-share-menu (https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SEIY0kLpuYK2nziSgLPsI?si=yTAWV8x6QDu6qMtZB7dWvw&utm_source=native-share-menu)

Thanks for posting that up. He was able to articulate his thoughts, ideas and arguments in a way i could never do.
       
     

A writer so again a bullshit non scientific OPINION.

Did you even listen to it? 
    Anyway i suppose masking up our kids in primary school will be a real success.
    I suppose those children that get vaccinated might be allowed to take them off. That would be a quare incentive.

Kids in NYC have been masked since they started back in the classroom over a year ago. I was surprised to learn recently that it was only now being considered in Ireland.

My two have got their initial jabs, but I doubt if the city will remove the mask requirement once they complete the vaccinations. Its hard enough getting kids to wear them properly without having half the class allowed to go without them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on December 01, 2021, 12:12:25 PM
Schools are a disaster up North at the minute it's rattling through kids and teachers like wildfire and there are no subs then to cover the teachers that are off for testing or who have caught it.

I'm not a fan of a circuit breaker really but given how bad it is in our local area it mightn't be a bad idea to give the kids an extra week off to stop the spread!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NAG1 on December 01, 2021, 12:31:52 PM
The rules or the interpretation of the rules is off when it comes to this.

If there is Covid at home the kid can still come to school until such times as they test positive. How is that not going to do anything other than encourage the spread.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on December 01, 2021, 01:00:25 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on December 01, 2021, 12:31:52 PM
The rules or the interpretation of the rules is off when it comes to this.

If there is Covid at home the kid can still come to school until such times as they test positive. How is that not going to do anything other than encourage the spread.

That's not true up North anyway . . .

QuoteYoung people (aged five to 17) who are not fully vaccinated and are identified as a close contacts should self-isolate and book a PCR test as soon as possible.

If the PCR test is negative, they can end their self-isolation and should arrange to take another PCR test eight days after the last known contact.

If the young person who is a close contact develops symptoms at any time they should immediately self-isolate and book a PCR test, even if the earlier PCR tests were negative.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Truth hurts on December 01, 2021, 02:59:44 PM
Its an absolute shit show up here at the minute, the numbers are through the roof and will get worse. |A circuit breaker f some sort is needed for two weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 01, 2021, 03:22:26 PM
Think schools will close 17th.

But should prob close on 14th tbh. Schools seem to be a major issue,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 01, 2021, 03:34:33 PM
I know someone who's children got it, had stay at home but she could still attend work as long as her tests every few days or whatever the recommended test period is, stayed clear.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 01, 2021, 03:36:01 PM
This issue was going on in schools last year and stormont pretended schools weren't a main spreader, couldn't made it up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on December 01, 2021, 03:45:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 01, 2021, 03:34:33 PM
I know someone who's children got it, had stay at home but she could still attend work as long as her tests every few days or whatever the recommended test period is, stayed clear.

That is the rule if you're vaccinated and someone in the house has it you don't have to isolate unless you get a positive test but you still have to get tested day 2 and day 8!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 01, 2021, 04:20:35 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 01, 2021, 03:34:33 PM
I know someone who's children got it, had stay at home but she could still attend work as long as her tests every few days or whatever the recommended test period is, stayed clear.

I know a few couples where one got it and the other didn't. Also our one year old got it and neither me nor my wife got it from him.

Yeah the day 2 and day 8 thing is a bit mad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trileacman on December 01, 2021, 04:28:19 PM
Can someone explain the logic of ramping up a booster programme that will soon be made redundant by omicrons mutations?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 01, 2021, 04:42:07 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 01, 2021, 04:28:19 PM
Can someone explain the logic of ramping up a booster programme that will soon be made redundant by omicrons mutations?
Is it definitely useless against Omicron? I suppose given the level of Delta currently around it makes sense to still protect against it. I'm in on Thursday to get both booster and flu shot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 01, 2021, 04:50:47 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 01, 2021, 04:28:19 PM
Can someone explain the logic of ramping up a booster programme that will soon be made redundant by omicrons mutations?

Do we know that it will be redundant?

Or just less effective?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 01, 2021, 04:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2021, 04:50:47 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 01, 2021, 04:28:19 PM
Can someone explain the logic of ramping up a booster programme that will soon be made redundant by omicrons mutations?

Do we know that it will be redundant?

Or just less effective?
moderna made 14 million profit in 2019 so far this year it's about 11 billion for 3 quarters
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 01, 2021, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 01, 2021, 04:54:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2021, 04:50:47 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 01, 2021, 04:28:19 PM
Can someone explain the logic of ramping up a booster programme that will soon be made redundant by omicrons mutations?

Do we know that it will be redundant?

Or just less effective?
moderna made 14 million profit in 2019 so far this year it's about 11 billion for 3 quarters

That they're on a similar course to 2019 is relevant to what I said, how, exactly?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 01, 2021, 05:51:52 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 01, 2021, 04:28:19 PM
Can someone explain the logic of ramping up a booster programme that will soon be made redundant by omicrons mutations?

Pfizer are saying their vaccine still gives really good protection from omicron based on preliminary data. Delta is still dominant and will be for a while yet so it's good to get as much protection from it also.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 01, 2021, 09:14:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2021, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 01, 2021, 04:54:28 PM
moderna made 14 million profit in 2019 so far this year it's about 11 billion for 3 quarters

That they're on a similar course to 2019 is relevant to what I said, how, exactly?

For once he's right.

Net income up to end Sept is plus ~ $7 billion.
Same period in 2020 was minus ~ $0.5 billion.
Same period in 2019 was minus ~ $0.4 billion.
Same period in 2018 was minus ~ $0.25 billion.

That's pretty hideous.


Of course, as you say, is that relevant to whether the vaccine is redundant or just less effective?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on December 01, 2021, 10:05:37 PM
Is it only Pfizer doing boosters?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 01, 2021, 11:31:34 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on December 01, 2021, 10:05:37 PM
Is it only Pfizer doing boosters?
Moderna in the chemists and GP surgeries I think and Pfizer in hospital/mass vaccination settings due to storage requirements.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 01, 2021, 11:36:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 01, 2021, 04:42:07 PM
Quote from: trileacman on December 01, 2021, 04:28:19 PM
Can someone explain the logic of ramping up a booster programme that will soon be made redundant by omicrons mutations?
Is it definitely useless against Omicron? I suppose given the level of Delta currently around it makes sense to still protect against it. I'm in on Thursday to get both booster and flu shot.
They won't stop the booster programme. The annual flu jab gets adjusted all the time depending on what's in circulation in the community so "in theory" I'd expect the booster to get adjusted (if required) and new batches released seamlessly, however the murmurings seem to suggest existing vaccines will give a good level of protection, but time will tell.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 01, 2021, 11:59:56 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on November 30, 2021, 05:27:41 PM
Regardless of which side your on ... I reckon this is worth 30 minutes of anyones time even if its just to test their own current beliefs about this whole hashter (including how they perceive 'the other side')

QuotePaul Kingsnorth sees the vaccine wars as symptomatic of a bigger division between two fundamentally different world views: he calls them "thesis" and "antithesis." When it comes to Covid, "thesis" is the establishment viewpoint: that lockdowns are needed to contain the virus, masks work, vaccines are safe, and people who question them are wrongheaded or worse. When Covid-19 first struck, Kingsnorth took the "thesis" viewpoint.

But over the last few months, his perspective changed. As he  in today's UnHerd, the crystallising moment arrived when he woke up to the news that the Austrian government had 'interned an entire third of the population'. This move, he writes, sent a 'chill down my spine'.

The "antithesis" view can be summed up as: lockdowns are not needed, masks do not work, the safety and efficacy of the vaccines are being oversold, vaccine passports will not only fail but further segregate society, and in the near future we can expect Giradian scapegoating of the unvaccinated. In other words, we are positioned on the precipice of a slippery slope that leads towards increasingly draconian biopolitical control measures, the grip of which is unlikely to release even once the pandemic is over.

In a conversation with Freddie Sayers on this week's UnHerdTV, he explains this division and the bigger epistemological divides it reveals. "People are arguing about vaccines," he says, "but they're really under the surface arguing about what kind of person you are if you have taken these things, whether you're a good or a bad person, or clean or unclean one".

In Kingsnorth's view, each of us has a line that cannot be crossed. And his has now been reached.


https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SEIY0kLpuYK2nziSgLPsI?si=yTAWV8x6QDu6qMtZB7dWvw&utm_source=native-share-menu (https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SEIY0kLpuYK2nziSgLPsI?si=yTAWV8x6QDu6qMtZB7dWvw&utm_source=native-share-menu)
Kingsnorth is a nut. He is a former environmental campaigner (he protested against motorway building in England back in the 1990s) now turned evangelical Christian.

In 2009 he wrote with relish of a "cleansing catastrophe" in the earth's climate and eco-systems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncivilization_(manifesto)

And he has carried that "thinking" through to Covid, calling the virus a "delicious sign". These are not the words of somebody who values human life or avoiding mass human suffering.

And it is entirely in keeping with the carry on of the rapture fiends which infest evangelical Christianity.

Whatever sort of a world Kingsnorth wants to live in, I don't want to live in.

"Rip it up and start again" might be a good song by Orange Juice but a serious view of the world it is most definitely not. The world doesn't work that way. It is nihilism.

George Monbiot, who is a former friend of his, has been damning about his turn to the nihilist right.

(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/optimized/3X/b/8/b8571004e978f448a1a66c4f34b79407b0e65f4e_2_1035x360.png)



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 02, 2021, 12:26:43 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 01, 2021, 09:14:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 01, 2021, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 01, 2021, 04:54:28 PM
moderna made 14 million profit in 2019 so far this year it's about 11 billion for 3 quarters

That they're on a similar course to 2019 is relevant to what I said, how, exactly?

For once he's right.

Net income up to end Sept is plus ~ $7 billion.
Same period in 2020 was minus ~ $0.5 billion.
Same period in 2019 was minus ~ $0.4 billion.
Same period in 2018 was minus ~ $0.25 billion.

That's pretty hideous.


Of course, as you say, is that relevant to whether the vaccine is redundant or just less effective?

Actually, he IS right on the profit.

Million... billion.

My bad.

That still said... relevance?

Pandemics are a godsend for companies that can produce vaccines. Is that not the way the free market, (formerly?) worshipped by the GOP, is supposed to work?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 02, 2021, 06:35:07 PM
I see in Australia they have "voluntary "quarantine camps surrounded by barbed wire fencing to lock up the natives , lockdowns and removal of rights of unvaccinated all over Europe, if you said any of this could happen 6 months ago you would be called conspiracy theorist or tin foil hat guy , what will be next I wonder , All the while double and triple jabbed people keep testing positive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 03, 2021, 06:39:49 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/cabinet-agrees-to-introduce-nphet-rules-on-household-visits-and-hospitality-41116329.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on December 03, 2021, 07:03:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 03, 2021, 06:39:49 PM
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/cabinet-agrees-to-introduce-nphet-rules-on-household-visits-and-hospitality-41116329.html

Whos going to run with 50% capacity for upcoming events that has booked out at 100%. They'll all likely be cancelled now

The nightclubs are sure to be very busy this weekend as the last until at least a month.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 03, 2021, 08:25:36 PM
What is the general consensus on that guy Stephen Donnelly in the south? Anything I read he doesn't come across very well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 03, 2021, 08:41:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 02, 2021, 06:35:07 PM
I see in Australia they have "voluntary "quarantine camps surrounded by barbed wire fencing to lock up the natives , lockdowns and removal of rights of unvaccinated all over Europe, if you said any of this could happen 6 months ago you would be called conspiracy theorist or tin foil hat guy , what will be next I wonder , All the while double and triple jabbed people keep testing positive.

While vaccinated people are testing positive, they are largely staying out of hospital.

Unless you want a collapsing health service - then you'd best consider that while the vaccines aren't as good as hoped*, they still are making a massive massive difference to mortality rate.



*They were as good as hoped (including being infectious) until delta broke that part of them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 03, 2021, 08:50:50 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 03, 2021, 08:25:36 PM
What is the general consensus on that guy Stephen Donnelly in the south? Anything I read he doesn't come across very well.
He knew everything when he was in opposition.
FF is his 2nd or 3rd party.
Most folk don't think a whole pile of him now that he has to do something other than moan.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 04, 2021, 05:29:03 AM
How are people accepting going back to restrictions when everyman and his dog has been vaccinated? If the shit show of a health service is overrun at this stage it's feck all to do with covid but the government's lack of investment for years.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 04, 2021, 07:13:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2021, 05:29:03 AM
How are people accepting going back to restrictions when everyman and his dog has been vaccinated? If the shit show of a health service is overrun at this stage it's feck all to do with covid but the government's lack of investment for years.

There's a good bit of truth in that. The health service is designed to be at full capacity in the winter when the flu surges along with other respiratory illnesses. It's often been at stretching point before but it's just about able to cope and the flu vaccine is a big help in reducing patient numbers. The numbers with covid are potentially way beyond that stretching point an that's the issue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 04, 2021, 09:16:45 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2021, 05:29:03 AM
How are people accepting going back to restrictions when everyman and his dog has been vaccinated? If the shit show of a health service is overrun at this stage it's feck all to do with covid but the government's lack of investment for years.
76% have been vaccinated. Which means 24% haven't. That's 1.25 million people.

Now Omicron changes the game again.

People will accept restrictions because they are necessary.

If Omicron wasn't around, restrictions over Christmas would still be necessary.

With Omicron around, the token restrictions that were announced last night will be like a chocolate fireguard.

The next week will change the game.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on December 04, 2021, 12:36:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 04, 2021, 09:16:45 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2021, 05:29:03 AM
How are people accepting going back to restrictions when everyman and his dog has been vaccinated? If the shit show of a health service is overrun at this stage it's feck all to do with covid but the government's lack of investment for years.
76% have been vaccinated. Which means 24% haven't. That's 1.25 million people.

Now Omicron changes the game again.

People will accept restrictions because they are necessary.

If Omicron wasn't around, restrictions over Christmas would still be necessary.

With Omicron around, the token restrictions that were announced last night will be like a chocolate fireguard.

The next week will change the game.
Especially if it turns out to be a variant of mild symptoms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on December 04, 2021, 12:48:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 04, 2021, 09:16:45 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2021, 05:29:03 AM
How are people accepting going back to restrictions when everyman and his dog has been vaccinated? If the shit show of a health service is overrun at this stage it's feck all to do with covid but the government's lack of investment for years.
76% have been vaccinated. Which means 24% haven't. That's 1.25 million people.

Now Omicron changes the game again.

People will accept restrictions because they are necessary.

If Omicron wasn't around, restrictions over Christmas would still be necessary.

With Omicron around, the token restrictions that were announced last night will be like a chocolate fireguard.

The next week will change the game.
Sid is that 76% of the total population, or adult population?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on December 04, 2021, 01:32:04 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on December 04, 2021, 12:48:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 04, 2021, 09:16:45 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2021, 05:29:03 AM
How are people accepting going back to restrictions when everyman and his dog has been vaccinated? If the shit show of a health service is overrun at this stage it’s feck all to do with covid but the government’s lack of investment for years.
76% have been vaccinated. Which means 24% haven't. That's 1.25 million people.

Now Omicron changes the game again.

People will accept restrictions because they are necessary.

If Omicron wasn't around, restrictions over Christmas would still be necessary.

With Omicron around, the token restrictions that were announced last night will be like a chocolate fireguard.

The next week will change the game.
Sid is that 76% of the total population, or adult population?

Of those that can be vaccinated (above the age of 12) 90% of the population are fully vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 04, 2021, 01:33:39 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on December 04, 2021, 12:48:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 04, 2021, 09:16:45 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2021, 05:29:03 AM
How are people accepting going back to restrictions when everyman and his dog has been vaccinated? If the shit show of a health service is overrun at this stage it's feck all to do with covid but the government's lack of investment for years.
76% have been vaccinated. Which means 24% haven't. That's 1.25 million people.

Now Omicron changes the game again.

People will accept restrictions because they are necessary.

If Omicron wasn't around, restrictions over Christmas would still be necessary.

With Omicron around, the token restrictions that were announced last night will be like a chocolate fireguard.

The next week will change the game.
Sid is that 76% of the total population, or adult population?
The total population - which is the only figure that matters.

The adult population figure is strictly for media consumption.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 04, 2021, 01:46:07 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 04, 2021, 12:15:27 PM
Martin Neil Professor at Queen Mary University London

https://twitter.com/MartinNeil9/status/1466814347762671628?t=ReIXOjXKU44AlhuzPiEcvA&s=19 (https://twitter.com/MartinNeil9/status/1466814347762671628?t=ReIXOjXKU44AlhuzPiEcvA&s=19)
Congratulations on finding an English equivalent of Dolores Cahill.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 04, 2021, 01:49:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 04, 2021, 01:33:39 PM
The total population - which is the only figure that matters.

The adult population figure is strictly for media consumption.

The total population figure is the only thing that matters for spread.
The adult figure does affect the proportion likely to end up in hospital or dead.
The ROI has a pretty decent adult figure, but they haven't done the teenagers as well as Spain and Portugal, who have fully vaccinated 80%+ of the population.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 04, 2021, 02:04:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 04, 2021, 01:49:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 04, 2021, 01:33:39 PM
The total population - which is the only figure that matters.

The adult population figure is strictly for media consumption.

The total population figure is the only thing that matters for spread.
The adult figure does affect the proportion likely to end up in hospital or dead.
The ROI has a pretty decent adult figure, but they haven't done the teenagers as well as Spain and Portugal, who have fully vaccinated 80%+ of the population.
Everything flows from cases. So you need to be looking at as high a total population vaccine take up as possible.

Now obviously it's essential that your most at risk groups, ie. the elderly, have as close to 100% take up as possible. But if you have an unvaccinated cohort of any age driving spread it will leak into the most at risk groups, and some of them will be unlucky.

It doesn't matter a jot if that driver is the 18-24 year olds or the 5-11 year olds.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 04, 2021, 02:29:54 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 04, 2021, 02:22:24 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 04, 2021, 01:46:07 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 04, 2021, 12:15:27 PM
Martin Neil Professor at Queen Mary University London

https://twitter.com/MartinNeil9/status/1466814347762671628?t=ReIXOjXKU44AlhuzPiEcvA&s=19 (https://twitter.com/MartinNeil9/status/1466814347762671628?t=ReIXOjXKU44AlhuzPiEcvA&s=19)
Congratulations on finding an English equivalent of Dolores Cahill.

Your not really interested in anything other than your narrative. Knock yourself out. Meanwhile the republic, 92% vaccination and covid numbers increasing daily, its the unvaccinated are the problem in your head. 😂😂


Did anyone let u into the big secret, vaccinated people are contagious as well. That must mess your head up
I'm not interested in the idiotic ramblings of a crackpot who works in a non-medical or scientific field and who very much comes across as if he believes in lizard people.

Thanks for linking to it anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on December 04, 2021, 03:09:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 04, 2021, 01:49:04 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 04, 2021, 01:33:39 PM
The total population - which is the only figure that matters.

The adult population figure is strictly for media consumption.

The total population figure is the only thing that matters for spread.
The adult figure does affect the proportion likely to end up in hospital or dead.
The ROI has a pretty decent adult figure, but they haven't done the teenagers as well as Spain and Portugal, who have fully vaccinated 80%+ of the population.

More than decent and we aren't going to get many more vaccinated unless under 12s are vaccinated which is unlikey. As you said adult population the most important as those are the ones most likely to end up sick.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2021, 05:32:34 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 04, 2021, 05:28:52 PM
Adult population? The average age of death is 82. Their vaccinated along time ago. I look forward to the outcome of a court case being taken against Swan, vaccinating teenagers when the government were advised not to but proceeded against that advice

I don't think people are being forced to being vaccinated, and never should be
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2021, 05:46:39 PM
cant see why any healthy teenager should be vaccinated - but its each to their own for me
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2021, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2021, 05:46:39 PM
cant see why any healthy teenager should be vaccinated - but its each to their own for me

No, as long as they don't pass it on to an elderly relative or someone who's got underlying conditions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2021, 05:59:42 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 04, 2021, 05:52:19 PM
So what do you think the covid password role out across multiple countries is about. It's certainly not about protecting people from Covid. The south being a prime example. 92% vaccinated, covid passports and covid cases v high.

But hey, its the unvaccinated 😂😂😂

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2021, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2021, 05:46:39 PM
cant see why any healthy teenager should be vaccinated - but its each to their own for me


What was the point of getting the eldery vaccinated then. Is the vaccine not doing its job?
No, as long as they don't pass it on to an elderly relative or someone who's got underlying conditions.

You seem to be happy about something with all the smiles.

But hey whatever floats your boat.

We are fully vaccinated and haven't caught Covid, I can only go with that personal experience and wouldn't like to take that chance.

Would you rather no attempt to reduce the deaths and just let her rip?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 04, 2021, 06:02:48 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 04, 2021, 05:52:19 PM
So what do you think the covid password role out across multiple countries is about. It's certainly not about protecting people from Covid. The south being a prime example. 92% vaccinated, covid passports and covid cases v high.

But hey, its the unvaccinated 😂😂😂

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2021, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2021, 05:46:39 PM
cant see why any healthy teenager should be vaccinated - but its each to their own for me

No, as long as they don't pass it on to an elderly relative or someone who's got underlying
conditions.


What was the point of getting the eldery vaccinated then. Is the vaccine not doing its job?

you tell us why covid passposts are in use? and while you are at it tell us why numbers increase when restrictions are eased? no need to refer to vaccinated or unvaccinated in the answer to the 2nd question

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2021, 06:44:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2021, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2021, 05:46:39 PM
cant see why any healthy teenager should be vaccinated - but its each to their own for me

No, as long as they don't pass it on to an elderly relative or someone who's got underlying conditions.

But if they are double jabbed and boostered.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2021, 08:35:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2021, 06:44:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2021, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2021, 05:46:39 PM
cant see why any healthy teenager should be vaccinated - but its each to their own for me

No, as long as they don't pass it on to an elderly relative or someone who's got underlying conditions.

But if they are double jabbed and boostered.....
If
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2021, 08:40:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2021, 08:35:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2021, 06:44:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2021, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2021, 05:46:39 PM
cant see why any healthy teenager should be vaccinated - but its each to their own for me

No, as long as they don't pass it on to an elderly relative or someone who's got underlying conditions.

But if they are double jabbed and boostered.....
If

Personal risk, and for me it's the elders who need to take personal responsibility in this case. My parents wouldn't even think of refusing having the grandwains down because they aren't vaccined and that's because they are, nor have I heard many others say that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 04, 2021, 08:43:06 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 04, 2021, 05:52:19 PM
So what do you think the covid password role out across multiple countries is about. It's certainly not about protecting people from Covid. The south being a prime example. 92% vaccinated, covid passports and covid cases v high.

But hey, its the unvaccinated 😂😂😂


Them Unvaxxed the scourge of the new normal! Depending on their own immune system? We can't have any of that!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2021, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2021, 08:40:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2021, 08:35:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2021, 06:44:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2021, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2021, 05:46:39 PM
cant see why any healthy teenager should be vaccinated - but its each to their own for me

No, as long as they don't pass it on to an elderly relative or someone who's got underlying conditions.

But if they are double jabbed and boostered.....
If

Personal risk, and for me it's the elders who need to take personal responsibility in this case. My parents wouldn't even think of refusing having the grandwains down because they aren't vaccined and that's because they are, nor have I heard many others say that

I know one family personally, the son caught it in England, brought it back, both parents died, he died few weeks later. Them's the breaks I suppose...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 04, 2021, 09:09:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2021, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2021, 08:40:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2021, 08:35:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2021, 06:44:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2021, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2021, 05:46:39 PM
cant see why any healthy teenager should be vaccinated - but its each to their own for me

No, as long as they don't pass it on to an elderly relative or someone who's got underlying conditions.

But if they are double jabbed and boostered.....
If

Personal risk, and for me it's the elders who need to take personal responsibility in this case. My parents wouldn't even think of refusing having the grandwains down because they aren't vaccined and that's because they are, nor have I heard many others say that

I know one family personally, the son caught it in England, brought it back, both parents died, he died few weeks later. Them's the breaks I suppose...

Sounds like they were unvaccinated? What is the odds of three from the one family to die, unless they were all unvaccinated?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2021, 09:19:19 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 04, 2021, 09:09:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2021, 08:57:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2021, 08:40:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2021, 08:35:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2021, 06:44:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 04, 2021, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 04, 2021, 05:46:39 PM
cant see why any healthy teenager should be vaccinated - but its each to their own for me

No, as long as they don't pass it on to an elderly relative or someone who's got underlying conditions.

But if they are double jabbed and boostered.....
If

Personal risk, and for me it's the elders who need to take personal responsibility in this case. My parents wouldn't even think of refusing having the grandwains down because they aren't vaccined and that's because they are, nor have I heard many others say that

I know one family personally, the son caught it in England, brought it back, both parents died, he died few weeks later. Them's the breaks I suppose...

Sounds like they were unvaccinated? What is the odds of three from the one family to die, unless they were all unvaccinated?

My point is, if vaccinated they'd probably be still alive, if someone is not vaccinated you could catch the virus and put yourself and others at risk, and if you're happy to do that then fine. The risk of dying is still there, I've people coming into my work and proudly tell me they ain't vaccinated.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on December 04, 2021, 09:54:51 PM
Forgive me for being sceptical when you see articles like this ignoring elephants in corners  :-\

Up to 300,000 people facing heart-related illnesses due to post-pandemic stress disorder, warn physicians

PPSD is a mental health condition induced by the pandemic. While PPSD is not yet officially recognised term , many experts believe it should be.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/post-pandemic-stress-disorder-heart-conditions-covid-london-physicians-b969436.html (https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/post-pandemic-stress-disorder-heart-conditions-covid-london-physicians-b969436.html)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 04, 2021, 10:51:20 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 04, 2021, 08:43:06 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 04, 2021, 05:52:19 PM
So what do you think the covid password role out across multiple countries is about. It's certainly not about protecting people from Covid. The south being a prime example. 92% vaccinated, covid passports and covid cases v high.

But hey, its the unvaccinated 😂😂😂


Them Unvaxxed the scourge of the new normal! Depending on their own immune system? We can't have any of that!
I'm more than happy for them to depend on their own immune system provided they look after themselves at home if their immune system isn't up to the job.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 05, 2021, 01:26:23 AM
from The Sunday Times

Parekh said that Covid patients had a significantly longer length of stay in critical care than other patients, with an average of nine days; longer if they survived the infection. In his unit he said this meant that as many as 100 to 140 other surgeries, which would require stays of only one or two days, had to be delayed each week.

Between July and November, NHS England said that 150 patients were referred for extracorporeal membrane oxygenation, or Ecmo, where blood is cycled through an artificial lung machine before returning it to the body. Of these patients, only 6 per cent had been fully vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 02:26:33 AM
Anyone here know what Pericarditis is?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 02:30:07 AM
I see China has had less deaths from Covid than Ireland? Whats going on there? Are they telling porkies?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 02:49:26 AM
Is it true that If you arrive on a private/charter aircraft
You don't need to show vaccine certificates? Anywhere in the world?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 05, 2021, 11:22:56 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 04, 2021, 09:16:45 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2021, 05:29:03 AM
How are people accepting going back to restrictions when everyman and his dog has been vaccinated? If the shit show of a health service is overrun at this stage it's feck all to do with covid but the government's lack of investment for years.
76% have been vaccinated. Which means 24% haven't. That's 1.25 million people.

Now Omicron changes the game again.

People will accept restrictions because they are necessary.

If Omicron wasn't around, restrictions over Christmas would still be necessary.

With Omicron around, the token restrictions that were announced last night will be like a chocolate fireguard.

The next week will change the game.
They aren't necessary.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 05, 2021, 11:53:21 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 04, 2021, 01:33:39 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on December 04, 2021, 12:48:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 04, 2021, 09:16:45 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 04, 2021, 05:29:03 AM
How are people accepting going back to restrictions when everyman and his dog has been vaccinated? If the shit show of a health service is overrun at this stage it's feck all to do with covid but the government's lack of investment for years.
76% have been vaccinated. Which means 24% haven't. That's 1.25 million people.

Now Omicron changes the game again.

People will accept restrictions because they are necessary.

If Omicron wasn't around, restrictions over Christmas would still be necessary.

With Omicron around, the token restrictions that were announced last night will be like a chocolate fireguard.

The next week will change the game.
Sid is that 76% of the total population, or adult population?
The total population - which is the only figure that matters.

The adult population figure is strictly for media consumption.
99.9% of kids wont get sick vaccine or no vaccine. Vast vast majority of adults wont either. Time to move on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 05, 2021, 12:11:16 PM
Per today's Sunday Times:

The latest report from the Health Protection Surveillance Centre (HPSC) shows that of the 552 people admitted to ICU with Covid between June 27 and November 20, 57 per cent were unvaccinated. Two thirds of those unvaccinated requiring treatment in ICU were under 60 years old.

The report shows that 9.5 per cent of Covid cases detected in healthcare workers since June have been in unvaccinated workers, a total of 812 cases. The HPSC calculated that unvaccinated people were 11 more times likely to be admitted to ICU after contracting Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on December 05, 2021, 12:23:14 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 02:26:33 AM
Anyone here know what Pericarditis is?

Something to do with the blood/heart I assume, the 'carditis' giving it away.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 12:26:09 PM
A recurring theme from people who believe COVID is a big conspiracy. There is constant reference to "they" but no one I have seen will ever answer who "they" are. Is it the Illuminati??

I suspect the question is leading...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 12:44:30 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 12:26:09 PM
A recurring theme from people who believe COVID is a big conspiracy. There is constant reference to "they" but no one I have seen will ever answer who "they" are. Is it the Illuminati??

I suspect the question is leading...

A recurring theme from people who believe COVID is not a big conspiracy. There is constant reference to "they" but no one I have seen will ever answer who "they" are. Is it the Illuminati??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 12:50:02 PM
Sorry I mean your pericarditis question as you seem to be straying into the they camp ;)

If you believe in "they". Who is they?

Btw my wife has pericarditis or I think a mild version of it. Way pre vaccine before you ask.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 01:10:10 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 12:50:02 PM
Sorry I mean your pericarditis question as you seem to be straying into the they camp ;)

If you believe in "they". Who is they?

Btw my wife has pericarditis or I think a mild version of it. Way pre vaccine before you ask.

Yes, who are they? I'd like to know too?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 01:16:36 PM
All joking aside, Lads do you believe their have been huge Censorship for the last 2 years?

Are ye all happily rolling along with all of this? Believing this is all for the common good?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 01:22:44 PM
Omicron variant 'made €9bn in week for top Pfizer and Moderna shareholders'


https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/omicron-variant-made-e9-billion-for-top-pfizer-and-moderna-shareholders-campaigners-say-1223700.html (https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/omicron-variant-made-e9-billion-for-top-pfizer-and-moderna-shareholders-campaigners-say-1223700.html)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 05, 2021, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 01:16:36 PM
All joking aside, Lads do you believe their have been huge Censorship for the last 2 years?

Are ye all happily rolling along with all of this? Believing this is all for the common good?
There's definitely more to this than a bit of a virus with a 99% plus recovery rate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 01:57:22 PM
Can you explain your censorship point? Who has been censored?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 02:37:16 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 01:57:22 PM
Can you explain your censorship point? Who has been censored?

The non coverage of protests by RTE/Virgin/TG4.
No dissenting voice on any forum by RTE/Virgin/TG4.
The one sided column inches on Newspapers.
The videos upon videos removed from Youtube.
Twitter a/c blocked.
Podcasts of live dissenting interviews from local Radio stations removed.
Doctors/Consultants/Heath care workers reprimanded for saying anything contrary to the narrative.
.....i could go on.

Many of the above have been struggling financially the last number of years. Covid has been a God-send!





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 05, 2021, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 05, 2021, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 01:16:36 PM
All joking aside, Lads do you believe their have been huge Censorship for the last 2 years?

Are ye all happily rolling along with all of this? Believing this is all for the common good?
There's definitely more to this than a bit of a virus with a 99% plus recovery rate.

There is definitely a bit more. It has a higher mortality rate than that. It's also leading to lots of cases of long covid where otherwise healthy people are being left as invalids. There are also lots of cases of strokes/heart disease arising a few months after getting covid which shows that nobody knows the long term consequences on the body of getting covid. So you're correct.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 03:17:15 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 05, 2021, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 05, 2021, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 01:16:36 PM
All joking aside, Lads do you believe their have been huge Censorship for the last 2 years?

Are ye all happily rolling along with all of this? Believing this is all for the common good?
There's definitely more to this than a bit of a virus with a 99% plus recovery rate.

There is definitely a bit more. It has a higher mortality rate than that. It's also leading to lots of cases of long covid where otherwise healthy people are being left as invalids. There are also lots of cases of strokes/heart disease arising a few months after getting covid which shows that nobody knows the long term consequences on the body of getting covid. So you're correct.

What is the mortality rate?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 05, 2021, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 05, 2021, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 01:16:36 PM
All joking aside, Lads do you believe their have been huge Censorship for the last 2 years?

Are ye all happily rolling along with all of this? Believing this is all for the common good?
There's definitely more to this than a bit of a virus with a 99% plus recovery rate.

Like what?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 05, 2021, 03:58:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 03:17:15 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 05, 2021, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 05, 2021, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 01:16:36 PM
All joking aside, Lads do you believe their have been huge Censorship for the last 2 years?

Are ye all happily rolling along with all of this? Believing this is all for the common good?
There's definitely more to this than a bit of a virus with a 99% plus recovery rate.

There is definitely a bit more. It has a higher mortality rate than that. It's also leading to lots of cases of long covid where otherwise healthy people are being left as invalids. There are also lots of cases of strokes/heart disease arising a few months after getting covid which shows that nobody knows the long term consequences on the body of getting covid. So you're correct.

What is the mortality rate?

Most medical data analysts have it closer to 2% but it won't fully be known for a while yet. I read recently that people who have been hospitalised with Covid are 50% more likely to die in the following 12 months than normal for their age and health status and that's across all age ranges. As I said before nobody wants to get this virus as it's becoming clear that many people are suffering serious long term consequences.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 04:44:27 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 05, 2021, 03:58:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 03:17:15 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 05, 2021, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 05, 2021, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 01:16:36 PM
All joking aside, Lads do you believe their have been huge Censorship for the last 2 years?

Are ye all happily rolling along with all of this? Believing this is all for the common good?
There's definitely more to this than a bit of a virus with a 99% plus recovery rate.

There is definitely a bit more. It has a higher mortality rate than that. It's also leading to lots of cases of long covid where otherwise healthy people are being left as invalids. There are also lots of cases of strokes/heart disease arising a few months after getting covid which shows that nobody knows the long term consequences on the body of getting covid. So you're correct.

What is the mortality rate?

Most medical data analysts have it closer to 2% but it won't fully be known for a while yet. I read recently that people who have been hospitalised with Covid are 50% more likely to die in the following 12 months than normal for their age and health status and that's across all age ranges. As I said before nobody wants to get this virus as it's becoming clear that many people are suffering serious long term consequences.

You are telling me that 2 out of every 100 known positive cases of Covid die?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 05, 2021, 05:16:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 04:44:27 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 05, 2021, 03:58:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 03:17:15 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 05, 2021, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 05, 2021, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 01:16:36 PM
All joking aside, Lads do you believe their have been huge Censorship for the last 2 years?

Are ye all happily rolling along with all of this? Believing this is all for the common good?
There's definitely more to this than a bit of a virus with a 99% plus recovery rate.

There is definitely a bit more. It has a higher mortality rate than that. It's also leading to lots of cases of long covid where otherwise healthy people are being left as invalids. There are also lots of cases of strokes/heart disease arising a few months after getting covid which shows that nobody knows the long term consequences on the body of getting covid. So you're correct.

What is the mortality rate?

Most medical data analysts have it closer to 2% but it won't fully be known for a while yet. I read recently that people who have been hospitalised with Covid are 50% more likely to die in the following 12 months than normal for their age and health status and that's across all age ranges. As I said before nobody wants to get this virus as it's becoming clear that many people are suffering serious long term consequences.

You are telling me that 2 out of every 100 known positive cases of Covid die?

The uk has had 150,000 deaths due to Covid which is likely to be an underestimation because it doesn't include thousands who've died more than 28 days after testing positive. If around 10 million people have now had Covid in the uk then that's around 2%.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 05:36:37 PM
Ftb do you think any of what is censored is censored because it is outright lies?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 05:55:43 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 05:36:37 PM
Ftb do you think any of what is censored is censored because it is outright lies?

......and who decides what is lies? Who decides what is the truth? Is a open forum not healthy?

I started a thread on GAABOARD called The uncensored Covid 19 Thread. It was deleted by moderators within an hour.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 05, 2021, 06:05:23 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 05:55:43 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 05:36:37 PM
Ftb do you think any of what is censored is censored because it is outright lies?

......and who decides what is lies? Who decides what is the truth? Is a open forum not healthy?

I started a thread on GAABOARD called The uncensored Covid 19 Thread. It was deleted by moderators within an hour.

There are people out there who're convinced the earth is flat. Do you think those people deserve equal air time to proper scientists. It's the same principle here.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 06:10:23 PM
Who decides what is lies lol.

Right so here's an example from an "anti vaxxer". So a well known Bbc journalist left the other week. She left and said she could say nothing because of an upcoming tribunal. So a well known anti vax blogger / tweeter the claims that she is leaving because of her views on the vaccine.  It then comes out that it is in fact ageism. Meanwhile all this guys followers, of which there are many, are up in arms about the bbc.

Who decides that's a lie? Well it is.

I don't actually mind that much if people are "anti vax". As long as they don't buy into the bullshit. Buying into censorship etc is buying into bullshit. The "campaign" or "narrative " has been hijacked by a lot of untoward people who are preying on some pretty disillusioned and disgruntled people.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 06:16:35 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 05, 2021, 06:05:23 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 05:55:43 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 05:36:37 PM
Ftb do you think any of what is censored is censored because it is outright lies?

......and who decides what is lies? Who decides what is the truth? Is a open forum not healthy?

I started a thread on GAABOARD called The uncensored Covid 19 Thread. It was deleted by moderators within an hour.

There are people out there who're convinced the earth is flat. Do you think those people deserve equal air time to proper scientists. It's the same principle here.

Did you agree in the past of Censorship of Sinn Fein north and south of the Border? Was that the proper way to deal with that situation?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 05, 2021, 06:43:30 PM
A village or 2 missing their eejits it seems.
Edwin Poots says Earth is around 6,000 years old
Science says 5 billion years old or more.
Should every programme about the Earth give 50% time to each viewpoint?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 06:49:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 05, 2021, 06:43:30 PM
A village or 2 missing their eejits it seems.
Edwin Poots says Earth is around 6,000 years old
Science says 5 billion years old or more.
Should every programme about the Earth give 50% time to each viewpoint?

The problem is when you are getting 100% the view from one side!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 05, 2021, 07:07:21 PM
So how much percent should be given to Poots?
Or the "view" that the vaccinations are Bill Gates microchips?
Or that Finland doesn't exist?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 07:34:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 05, 2021, 07:07:21 PM
So how much percent should be given to Poots?
Or the "view" that the vaccinations are Bill Gates microchips?
Or that Finland doesn't exist?

Do you lump everything you don't agree with into the same category?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 07:59:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 05, 2021, 07:07:21 PM
So how much percent should be given to Poots?
Or the "view" that the vaccinations are Bill Gates microchips?
Or that Finland doesn't exist?

I think a good decent percentage. If there is nothing to hide or if they are full of sh1te, have it out in the open.
The more their message is hidden the more the lie gets the chance to multiply underground.

If there is noting to hide, have it out in the open. A conspiracy theorist with no data or knowledge will be found out in an open forum.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 05, 2021, 08:03:14 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 06:49:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 05, 2021, 06:43:30 PM
A village or 2 missing their eejits it seems.
Edwin Poots says Earth is around 6,000 years old
Science says 5 billion years old or more.
Should every programme about the Earth give 50% time to each viewpoint?

The problem is when you are getting 100% the view from one side!

but that is not the case... search NPHET on twitter and it very clear there is no censorship...

by the way poots opinions are out in the open... no censorship there either regardless of the crazy!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 05, 2021, 08:08:36 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 07:59:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 05, 2021, 07:07:21 PM
So how much percent should be given to Poots?
Or the "view" that the vaccinations are Bill Gates microchips?
Or that Finland doesn't exist?

I think a good decent percentage. If there is nothing to hide or if they are full of sh1te, have it out in the open.
The more their message is hidden the more the lie gets the chance to multiply underground.

If there is noting to hide, have it out in the open. A conspiracy theorist with no data or knowledge will be found out in an open forum.

These scientists all get the opportunity to publish their theories in peer reviewed journals. The problem is they can't het any other respected scientists to peer review and stand over their theories because they don't have any scientific accuracy. If their theories had any kind of legitimacy they would be getting published and would be in the mainstream. For exactly the same reason as those crackpot flat earth scientists don't get their ideas published.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 08:19:40 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 05, 2021, 08:08:36 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 07:59:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 05, 2021, 07:07:21 PM
So how much percent should be given to Poots?
Or the "view" that the vaccinations are Bill Gates microchips?
Or that Finland doesn't exist?

I think a good decent percentage. If there is nothing to hide or if they are full of sh1te, have it out in the open.
The more their message is hidden the more the lie gets the chance to multiply underground.

If there is noting to hide, have it out in the open. A conspiracy theorist with no data or knowledge will be found out in an open forum.

These scientists all get the opportunity to publish their theories in peer reviewed journals. The problem is they can't het any other respected scientists to peer review and stand over their theories because they don't have any scientific accuracy. If their theories had any kind of legitimacy they would be getting published and would be in the mainstream. For exactly the same reason as those crackpot flat earth scientists don't get their ideas published.

Science/Scientists are funded by Big Pharma. For any to go against the grain would be like Turkeys voting for Christmas.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 05, 2021, 08:31:56 PM
Scientists are like anyone else, if they can disprove some well known work and get it published in a top journal then they will become famous. If there is a flaw then someone will find it and get that fame.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 05, 2021, 08:37:12 PM
Parma companies may have influence but there are universities all over the world with all sorts of funding. It only takes one person to disprove something. Conspiracy theories are bollix.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 08:53:30 PM
Do you really think "big pharma" control everything and everyone in the world?? (Or censor?!) Also what would the majority of people who use the terminology "big pharma" know about large pharmaceutical companies? Answer : usually some crap they read on the internet!

They are like any other large business in any industry and will have corruption / greed etc associated with them but they do not control the world. (Otherwise I want their project manager because the coordination it would take for this whole "thing" would be off the charts).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 08:58:21 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 05, 2021, 08:37:12 PM
Parma companies may have influence but there are universities all over the world with all sorts of funding. It only takes one person to disprove something. Conspiracy theories are bollix.

So (hypothetically) one scientist comes out and says whats going on! He decides to go against the grain. He posts his findings on Youtube, Facebook and Twitter. People who believe, share it. People who don't believe look and shake their head (or don't even look at all). How could this one Scientist be going against all the rest? they ask (if they even look).  Youtube, Facebook and Twitter censor the content. Dead end.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: GAABoardMod5 on December 05, 2021, 09:02:00 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 05:55:43 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 05:36:37 PM
Ftb do you think any of what is censored is censored because it is outright lies?

......and who decides what is lies? Who decides what is the truth? Is a open forum not healthy?

I started a thread on GAABOARD called The uncensored Covid 19 Thread. It was deleted by moderators within an hour.

You are correct, this is a GAABOARD.  One discussion thread on Covid-19 issues is enough.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 09:06:51 PM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on December 05, 2021, 09:02:00 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 05:55:43 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 05:36:37 PM
Ftb do you think any of what is censored is censored because it is outright lies?

......and who decides what is lies? Who decides what is the truth? Is a open forum not healthy?

I started a thread on GAABOARD called The uncensored Covid 19 Thread. It was deleted by moderators within an hour.

You are correct, this is a GAABOARD.  One discussion thread on Covid-19 issues is enough.

You see... he/she isn't one of "them" ;D

Ftb do you know the full story behind any of these censorships? Do you work in an area where you would understand rationale if it were given for removal of content?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 05, 2021, 09:13:38 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 08:58:21 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 05, 2021, 08:37:12 PM
Parma companies may have influence but there are universities all over the world with all sorts of funding. It only takes one person to disprove something. Conspiracy theories are bollix.

So (hypothetically) one scientist comes out and says whats going on! He decides to go against the grain. He posts his findings on Youtube, Facebook and Twitter. People who believe, share it. People who don't believe look and shake their head (or don't even look at all). How could this one Scientist be going against all the rest? they ask (if they even look).  Youtube, Facebook and Twitter censor the content. Dead end.

If a scientist has any actual scientific analysis of interest, then he or she does not go on Youtube or Twitter, but puts a proper paper on medrxiv or the like and allows scientific colleagues examine the work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 10:10:05 PM
Regardless of what we read or are told. We all go on intuition.
An inbuilt 6th sense, that tells us if something just is not right.
I hope in most cases I am completely wrong about what is coming.
I'm going to leave it there for the moment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 05, 2021, 10:52:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 10:10:05 PM
Regardless of what we read or are told. We all go on intuition.
An inbuilt 6th sense, that tells us if something just is not right.
I hope in most cases I am completely wrong about what is coming.
I'm going to leave it there for the moment.

What is coming?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 05, 2021, 11:15:48 PM
The end of the World !
Repent now!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 11:23:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 05, 2021, 11:15:48 PM
The end of the World !
Repent now!

Hopefully not!  :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 05, 2021, 11:31:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 10:10:05 PM
Regardless of what we read or are told. We all go on intuition.
An inbuilt 6th sense, that tells us if something just is not right.
I hope in most cases I am completely wrong about what is coming.
I'm going to leave it there for the moment.

Intuition tells us that Mayo should have won the All Ireland years ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on December 05, 2021, 11:57:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 05, 2021, 11:31:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 10:10:05 PM
Regardless of what we read or are told. We all go on intuition.
An inbuilt 6th sense, that tells us if something just is not right.
I hope in most cases I am completely wrong about what is coming.
I'm going to leave it there for the moment.

Intuition tells us that Mayo should have won the All Ireland years ago.
That's not intuition, that's just coming from one of the many erroneous voices inside your head.
Is there not a tiny voice in there which is trying to tell you to back off from your covid thread obsessions and the delusions of grandiose scientific correctness.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 06, 2021, 12:54:28 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 06, 2021, 12:09:23 AM
As I keep saying its only a matter of time for the whole truth comes out

https://twitter.com/maajidnawaz/status/1466752743276744708?s=21 (https://twitter.com/maajidnawaz/status/1466752743276744708?s=21)

A lot of people are embarrassing themselves on this Covid thing. If the US does 50 million jabs, and there are 50,000 "adverse reactions" then that is 0.1% of people with sore arms. Big swinging mickey. 5 times that proportion of people with Covid are dead. ANd if you vaccinate 50m 70 year olds (they started with older age groups) then 30,000 would die within 10 days even if you just give them a placebo.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: gawa316 on December 06, 2021, 01:48:53 AM
Anyone know what the protocols are for traveling to the states right now? Oul pair are flying out mid Dec. They obviously need prove of vaccination and a negative test but what's the time frame of the test...72 or 24 hrs?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on December 06, 2021, 02:17:19 AM
Quote from: gawa316 on December 06, 2021, 01:48:53 AM
Anyone know what the protocols are for traveling to the states right now? Oul pair are flying out mid Dec. They obviously need prove of vaccination and a negative test but what's the time frame of the test...72 or 24 hrs?
Why not go and read for yourself from the authoritative web site https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/international-travel/index.html  instead of subjecting yourself to the questionable anecdotal  info from the  inept brethren who  infect this thread with their dogmatic delusions of scientific grandeur.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 06, 2021, 07:41:08 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 11:23:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 05, 2021, 11:15:48 PM
The end of the World !
Repent now!

Hopefully not!  :-\

Jesus. I think you might be better staying away from the internet  :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on December 06, 2021, 08:39:04 AM
Quote from: Main Street on December 05, 2021, 11:57:41 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 05, 2021, 11:31:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 10:10:05 PM
Regardless of what we read or are told. We all go on intuition.
An inbuilt 6th sense, that tells us if something just is not right.
I hope in most cases I am completely wrong about what is coming.
I'm going to leave it there for the moment.

Intuition tells us that Mayo should have won the All Ireland years ago.
That's not intuition, that's just coming from one of the many erroneous voices inside your head.
Is there not a tiny voice in there which is trying to tell you to back off from your covid thread obsessions and the delusions of grandiose scientific correctness.

+1 Main Street, enjoyed that input.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 06, 2021, 09:17:01 AM
Quote from: lenny on December 05, 2021, 05:16:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 04:44:27 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 05, 2021, 03:58:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 03:17:15 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 05, 2021, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 05, 2021, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 01:16:36 PM
All joking aside, Lads do you believe their have been huge Censorship for the last 2 years?

Are ye all happily rolling along with all of this? Believing this is all for the common good?
There's definitely more to this than a bit of a virus with a 99% plus recovery rate.

There is definitely a bit more. It has a higher mortality rate than that. It's also leading to lots of cases of long covid where otherwise healthy people are being left as invalids. There are also lots of cases of strokes/heart disease arising a few months after getting covid which shows that nobody knows the long term consequences on the body of getting covid. So you're correct.

What is the mortality rate?

Most medical data analysts have it closer to 2% but it won't fully be known for a while yet. I read recently that people who have been hospitalised with Covid are 50% more likely to die in the following 12 months than normal for their age and health status and that's across all age ranges. As I said before nobody wants to get this virus as it's becoming clear that many people are suffering serious long term consequences.

You are telling me that 2 out of every 100 known positive cases of Covid die?

The uk has had 150,000 deaths due to Covid which is likely to be an underestimation because it doesn't include thousands who've died more than 28 days after testing positive. If around 10 million people have now had Covid in the uk then that's around 2%.
But what about the thousands who have died of any cause within 28 days of a covid test? I'd say the deaths are alot lower.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on December 06, 2021, 10:22:14 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2021, 09:17:01 AM
But what about the thousands who have died of any cause within 28 days of a covid test? I'd say the deaths are alot lower.

Go on then. In your expert medical, scientific and statistical opinion what do you set the death rate at for Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 06, 2021, 12:42:04 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on December 06, 2021, 10:22:14 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2021, 09:17:01 AM
But what about the thousands who have died of any cause within 28 days of a covid test? I'd say the deaths are alot lower.

Go on then. In your expert medical, scientific and statistical opinion what do you set the death rate at for Covid?
Do you need to be a medical expert to know that old/sick people die every day? Or to know that just because some inaccurate test said they had covid within 28 days doesn't mean it had anything to do with their death?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2021, 12:54:29 PM
So what is the best way forward here Armagh18, I'm fed up with this just as much as the next guy, so if you don't mind laying it out in plain English.

No need for links to anyone, I just want to hear the quick simplified one please
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 06, 2021, 01:08:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2021, 12:54:29 PM
So what is the best way forward here Armagh18, I'm fed up with this just as much as the next guy, so if you don't mind laying it out in plain English.

No need for links to anyone, I just want to hear the quick simplified one please

Something something herd immunity something something Sweden something.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyrone08 on December 06, 2021, 01:11:40 PM
The way covid deaths are recorded inflates the actual death figures. Same way the flu would have a far higher death rate each year if anyone who died within 28 days of getting the flu was recorded as a flu death.

Lad went in for open heart surgery last year and died. Postmortem showed death as covid as he tested positive. How is that accurate?

Unless covid directly caused the death it should not be listed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 06, 2021, 01:15:56 PM
And will Covid just go away then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on December 06, 2021, 01:19:46 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on December 06, 2021, 01:11:40 PM
The way covid deaths are recorded inflates the actual death figures. Same way the flu would have a far higher death rate each year if anyone who died within 28 days of getting the flu was recorded as a flu death.

Lad went in for open heart surgery last year and died. Postmortem showed death as covid as he tested positive. How is that accurate?

Unless covid directly caused the death it should not be listed.

What about the people who die outside the 28 days after contracting Covid?

They are not included in the death total as it stands
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 06, 2021, 01:23:32 PM
It isn't just about deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 06, 2021, 02:01:49 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 02:49:26 AM
Is it true that If you arrive on a private/charter aircraft
You don't need to show vaccine certificates? Anywhere in the world?

Not my experience
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2021, 02:28:04 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 06, 2021, 01:08:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2021, 12:54:29 PM
So what is the best way forward here Armagh18, I'm fed up with this just as much as the next guy, so if you don't mind laying it out in plain English.

No need for links to anyone, I just want to hear the quick simplified one please

Something something herd immunity something something Sweden something.

It must be something special at this rate, again don't make it too taxing, bullets points are fine with me, it's Monday after all and I've already upset Tyrone one's by saying Balinderry is a Derry club team
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: tyrone08 on December 06, 2021, 02:33:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 06, 2021, 01:15:56 PM
And will Covid just go away then?

Covid is never going away, that's the point. At some stage governments  are going to have to acknowledge this. Same as the flu has 1000s of deaths across the world each winter and no one blinks. 2 years of restrictions has not stopped covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 93-DY-SAM on December 06, 2021, 02:34:09 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2021, 12:42:04 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on December 06, 2021, 10:22:14 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2021, 09:17:01 AM
But what about the thousands who have died of any cause within 28 days of a covid test? I'd say the deaths are alot lower.

Go on then. In your expert medical, scientific and statistical opinion what do you set the death rate at for Covid?
Do you need to be a medical expert to know that old/sick people die every day? Or to know that just because some inaccurate test said they had covid within 28 days doesn't mean it had anything to do with their death?

No, you don't. I don't think anyone would argue with you that there are people included in the stats for Covid deaths. The difference between us is I don't think this is "alot" as you have said and what is this bit you are you bringing to the table about inaccurate tests?

I asked you for what figure you put on the deaths - how many is "alot"?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on December 06, 2021, 02:36:23 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on December 06, 2021, 02:33:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 06, 2021, 01:15:56 PM
And will Covid just go away then?

Covid is never going away, that's the point. At some stage governments  are going to have to acknowledge this. Same as the flu has 1000s of deaths across the world each winter and no one blinks. 2 years of restrictions has not stopped covid.

It would be ideal for the vaccines to be effective for 12 months and you just get a yearly jab like the flu jab without even thinking about it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 06, 2021, 02:38:03 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on December 06, 2021, 02:33:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 06, 2021, 01:15:56 PM
And will Covid just go away then?

Covid is never going away, that's the point. At some stage governments  are going to have to acknowledge this. Same as the flu has 1000s of deaths across the world each winter and no one blinks. 2 years of restrictions has not stopped covid.

So let's say governments acknowledge this. What do you think they should be doing differently? Accepting that it might be here to stay doesn't mean you stop trying to deal with it? What exactly would you change?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on December 06, 2021, 02:52:09 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 06, 2021, 01:23:32 PM
It isn't just about deaths.

Two years into things and some still don't get this.

Dead people don't overrun health services the world over.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 06, 2021, 04:10:04 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on December 06, 2021, 01:11:40 PM
The way covid deaths are recorded inflates the actual death figures.
In the UK it's quite the opposite, the death figures are very significantly under reported because they use an arbitrary cut off point of 28 days.

It's like the old Fast Show sketch about the Amsterdam police, "we ushed to have a sherioush problem with burglary but shinche we legalished it, it'sh not a problem any more."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 06, 2021, 04:29:04 PM
Quote from: tyrone08 on December 06, 2021, 02:33:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 06, 2021, 01:15:56 PM
And will Covid just go away then?

Covid is never going away, that's the point. At some stage governments  are going to have to acknowledge this. Same as the flu has 1000s of deaths across the world each winter and no one blinks. 2 years of restrictions has not stopped covid.

The spanish flu of 1918 hasn't gone away. It evolved after a few years into something which didn't cause anywhere near as much death after initially being quite lethal. Flus today are related to the spanish flu of 1918. At that time there were many sceptics who hated see8ng themselves being inconvenienced and not able to carry out their normal lives with restrictions in place and people being asked to wear masks. Covid will be around for a long time but hopefully in the next year or 2 we'll get enough people vaccinated or otherwise we'll have to hope it evolves into something which doesn't cause such severe disease and eases the burden on our health services. I would not be surprised to see further lockdowns/restrictions for another year or 2 at least with more variants emerging. By the way scientists had been warning about the probability of a pandemic for years and they're still warning that we could get something even more infectious and eadly following not fa4 behind covid-19. It's something governments around the world need to prepare for.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 07:10:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 09:06:51 PM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on December 05, 2021, 09:02:00 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 05:55:43 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 05:36:37 PM
Ftb do you think any of what is censored is censored because it is outright lies?

......and who decides what is lies? Who decides what is the truth? Is a open forum not healthy?

I started a thread on GAABOARD called The uncensored Covid 19 Thread. It was deleted by moderators within an hour.

You are correct, this is a GAABOARD.  One discussion thread on Covid-19 issues is enough.

You see... he/she isn't one of "them" ;D

Ftb do you know the full story behind any of these censorships? Do you work in an area where you would understand rationale if it were given for removal of content?
so the American heart association did some research and found that vaccines were causing a 15% increase in heart problems for over 28 year olds and Twitter put a misleading tag on it , is the guy in Twitter censoring this a heart expert or would the American heart association be a better guide here
The fact that any kind of medical intervention for covid other than a vaccine should be alarming , meanwhile in Israel you need to be on the 4th shot or you are technically unvaccinated, insanity and it's worldwide .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on December 06, 2021, 07:34:56 PM
Was out in Belfast at the weekend.  Restaurant didn't walk for covid passport and some staff not wearing masks in the bar we visited.  Bit of a shambles.  Can't understand why people can't bother to do the simplest things to if nothing else, help our friends working on the frontline in hospitals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2021, 08:03:57 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on December 06, 2021, 07:34:56 PM
Was out in Belfast at the weekend.  Restaurant didn't walk for covid passport and some staff not wearing masks in the bar we visited.  Bit of a shambles.  Can't understand why people can't bother to do the simplest things to if nothing else, help our friends working on the frontline in hospitals.

It's different in different places, was out with family and restaurants checking pass and masks worn by everyone.

Was at big Tesco and it's a simple policy of wearing masks is mandatory, why are they letting ones in without wearing a mask? No one at door, security very lax
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 06, 2021, 08:16:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 07:10:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 09:06:51 PM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on December 05, 2021, 09:02:00 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 05:55:43 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 05:36:37 PM
Ftb do you think any of what is censored is censored because it is outright lies?

......and who decides what is lies? Who decides what is the truth? Is a open forum not healthy?

I started a thread on GAABOARD called The uncensored Covid 19 Thread. It was deleted by moderators within an hour.

You are correct, this is a GAABOARD.  One discussion thread on Covid-19 issues is enough.

You see... he/she isn't one of "them" ;D

Ftb do you know the full story behind any of these censorships? Do you work in an area where you would understand rationale if it were given for removal of content?
so the American heart association did some research and found that vaccines were causing a 15% increase in heart problems for over 28 year olds and Twitter put a misleading tag on it , is the guy in Twitter censoring this a heart expert or would the American heart association be a better guide here
The fact that any kind of medical intervention for covid other than a vaccine should be alarming , meanwhile in Israel you need to be on the 4th shot or you are technically unvaccinated, insanity and it's worldwide .

Do you mind providing a link... as I seen recently that an abstract was published by AHA not that AHA did the research and it has found to be anecdotal data not statistical data...

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 06, 2021, 08:31:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 07:10:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 09:06:51 PM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on December 05, 2021, 09:02:00 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 05:55:43 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 05:36:37 PM
Ftb do you think any of what is censored is censored because it is outright lies?

......and who decides what is lies? Who decides what is the truth? Is a open forum not healthy?

I started a thread on GAABOARD called The uncensored Covid 19 Thread. It was deleted by moderators within an hour.

You are correct, this is a GAABOARD.  One discussion thread on Covid-19 issues is enough.

You see... he/she isn't one of "them" ;D

Ftb do you know the full story behind any of these censorships? Do you work in an area where you would understand rationale if it were given for removal of content?
so the American heart association did some research and found that vaccines were causing a 15% increase in heart problems for over 28 year olds and Twitter put a misleading tag on it , is the guy in Twitter censoring this a heart expert or would the American heart association be a better guide here
The fact that any kind of medical intervention for covid other than a vaccine should be alarming , meanwhile in Israel you need to be on the 4th shot or you are technically unvaccinated, insanity and it's worldwide .

The American heart association committee added an "Expression of Concern" warning due to "potential errors in the abstract." The problem with the abstract was that there was no evidence supplied to back up any claims. Stop with your deliberate misinformation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 06, 2021, 08:53:37 PM
GMac lying yet again, what a surprise. The American far right have a tactic which Steve Bannon calls "flooding the zone with bullshit" and that's what you get ad nauseum from our resident rabbit hole dwellers.

Little wonder the following is what happens as a result.

Pro-Trump counties now have far higher COVID death rates. Misinformation is to blame
Updated December 5, 202110:27 AM ET

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/12/05/1059828993/data-vaccine-misinformation-trump-counties-covid-death-rate?t=1638823864961
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 08:56:24 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 06, 2021, 08:31:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 07:10:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 09:06:51 PM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on December 05, 2021, 09:02:00 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 05:55:43 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 05:36:37 PM
Ftb do you think any of what is censored is censored because it is outright lies?

......and who decides what is lies? Who decides what is the truth? Is a open forum not healthy?

I started a thread on GAABOARD called The uncensored Covid 19 Thread. It was deleted by moderators within an hour.

You are correct, this is a GAABOARD.  One discussion thread on Covid-19 issues is enough.

You see... he/she isn't one of "them" ;D

Ftb do you know the full story behind any of these censorships? Do you work in an area where you would understand rationale if it were given for removal of content?
so the American heart association did some research and found that vaccines were causing a 15% increase in heart problems for over 28 year olds and Twitter put a misleading tag on it , is the guy in Twitter censoring this a heart expert or would the American heart association be a better guide here
The fact that any kind of medical intervention for covid other than a vaccine should be alarming , meanwhile in Israel you need to be on the 4th shot or you are technically unvaccinated, insanity and it's worldwide .

The American heart association committee added an "Expression of Concern" warning due to "potential errors in the abstract." The problem with the abstract was that there was no evidence supplied to back up any claims. Stop with your deliberate misinformation.
so I'm spreading misinformation how ?
If the study said vaccines are great for your heart would Twitter tag it as misinformation do you think?
I don't have any expertise on it I just commented on the censorship comments in post I was responding too , are you a heart surgeon ? Probably not but you can tell me to stfu .
Get your 4th jab because the 3 before worked so good .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 06, 2021, 09:12:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 08:56:24 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 06, 2021, 08:31:32 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 07:10:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 09:06:51 PM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on December 05, 2021, 09:02:00 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 05, 2021, 05:55:43 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 05, 2021, 05:36:37 PM
Ftb do you think any of what is censored is censored because it is outright lies?

......and who decides what is lies? Who decides what is the truth? Is a open forum not healthy?

I started a thread on GAABOARD called The uncensored Covid 19 Thread. It was deleted by moderators within an hour.

You are correct, this is a GAABOARD.  One discussion thread on Covid-19 issues is enough.

You see... he/she isn't one of "them" ;D

Ftb do you know the full story behind any of these censorships? Do you work in an area where you would understand rationale if it were given for removal of content?
so the American heart association did some research and found that vaccines were causing a 15% increase in heart problems for over 28 year olds and Twitter put a misleading tag on it , is the guy in Twitter censoring this a heart expert or would the American heart association be a better guide here
The fact that any kind of medical intervention for covid other than a vaccine should be alarming , meanwhile in Israel you need to be on the 4th shot or you are technically unvaccinated, insanity and it's worldwide .

The American heart association committee added an "Expression of Concern" warning due to "potential errors in the abstract." The problem with the abstract was that there was no evidence supplied to back up any claims. Stop with your deliberate misinformation.
so I'm spreading misinformation how ?
If the study said vaccines are great for your heart would Twitter tag it as misinformation do you think?
I don't have any expertise on it I just commented on the censorship comments in post I was responding too , are you a heart surgeon ? Probably not but you can tell me to stfu .
Get your 4th jab because the 3 before worked so good .

1st piece of mis info. the AHA did not do some research and found that vaccines were causing a 15% increase In problems...

2nd - twitter put a misleading tag on it.

3rd. the AHA made the expression of concern about the abstract.

you are correct that the AHA is a better guide.. well done on that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 06, 2021, 09:24:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 08:56:24 PMso I'm spreading misinformation how?

You said the AHA did some research. They didn't.

An abstract by someone else was published in the AHA journal. That someone else was Steven R. Gundry, MD.

QuoteGundry as "the founder and director of the International Heart and Lung Institute as well as the Center for Restorative Medicine. He is the author of The Plant Paradox: The Hidden Dangers in "Healthy" Foods That Cause Disease and Weight Gain, The Longevity Paradox: How to Die Young at a Ripe Old Age, and the upcoming The Plant Paradox Family Cookbook."

In 2016, Gundry founded Gundry MD, which includes a wellness blog, a YouTube channel, and a company that sells supplements.

Very much not the AHA. But you keep swallowing the shite that former Fox News guys spew onto twitter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 06, 2021, 09:32:31 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on December 06, 2021, 07:34:56 PM
Was out in Belfast at the weekend.  Restaurant didn't walk for covid passport and some staff not wearing masks in the bar we visited.  Bit of a shambles.  Can't understand why people can't bother to do the simplest things to if nothing else, help our friends working on the frontline in hospitals.
Heard of a few places in Belfast who actually refused entry to people who didnt have the vaccine even though it isnt enforceable until the 13th. Genuinely genuinely hope they go bust.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 09:34:32 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 06, 2021, 09:24:24 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 08:56:24 PMso I'm spreading misinformation how?

You said the AHA did some research. They didn't.

An abstract by someone else was published in the AHA journal. That someone else was Steven R. Gundry, MD.

QuoteGundry as "the founder and director of the International Heart and Lung Institute as well as the Center for Restorative Medicine. He is the author of The Plant Paradox: The Hidden Dangers in "Healthy" Foods That Cause Disease and Weight Gain, The Longevity Paradox: How to Die Young at a Ripe Old Age, and the upcoming The Plant Paradox Family Cookbook."

In 2016, Gundry founded Gundry MD, which includes a wellness blog, a YouTube channel, and a company that sells supplements.

Very much not the AHA. But you keep swallowing the shite that former Fox News guys spew onto twitter.
again with the Fox News bs
My comment was more about the censorship ,  has anyone verified the covid anxiety heart problems ?
Seem to be mainstream opinion, why ? because it goes along with the narrative.
Remember US government agencies told the world the withdrawal from Afghanistan was run like clockwork and nobody was left behind and the taliban are all nice guys now . Be careful who you believe not just fair and balanced Fox News
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 06, 2021, 09:45:07 PM
what censorship... the AHA who you said are a "better guide" are the ones saying "The Association regrets any confusion regarding the Association's position on COVID-19 vaccines, especially among the lay public who may be unfamiliar with scientific meetings. The American Heart Association itself has been unequivocal in its belief in and support of vaccination as the best available public health strategy to address the pandemic. The American Heart Association continues to fully support the CDC's COVID-19 vaccination recommendations." and also "We are publishing this Expression of Concern until a suitable correction is published to indicate that the abstract in its current version may not be reliable."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mad Mentor on December 06, 2021, 09:55:24 PM
I've yet to see one actual practical proposal put forward by those who disagree with the way the pandemic has been handled. There have been many posts against vaccines, lockdowns etc but none of these posters have put forward an alternative. When challenged to do so, the silence for a while is deafening.
If these people genuinely believe that vaccinations and lockdowns don't work, what is their alternative?
They have been given ample opportunity to put forward their views but all seem obsessed with what is being done wrong, rather than what they believe we should be doing differently.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 06, 2021, 10:03:48 PM
Quote from: Mad Mentor on December 06, 2021, 09:55:24 PM
I've yet to see one actual practical proposal put forward by those who disagree with the way the pandemic has been handled. There have been many posts against vaccines, lockdowns etc but none of these posters have put forward an alternative. When challenged to do so, the silence for a while is deafening.
If these people genuinely believe that vaccinations and lockdowns don't work, what is their alternative?
They have been given ample opportunity to put forward their views but all seem obsessed with what is being done wrong, rather than what they believe we should be doing differently.
Everyone that wants a vaccine has got it at this stage. Keep at boosters and stuff if they're working but other than that just live with it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 06, 2021, 10:06:36 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2021, 10:03:48 PM
Quote from: Mad Mentor on December 06, 2021, 09:55:24 PM
I've yet to see one actual practical proposal put forward by those who disagree with the way the pandemic has been handled. There have been many posts against vaccines, lockdowns etc but none of these posters have put forward an alternative. When challenged to do so, the silence for a while is deafening.
If these people genuinely believe that vaccinations and lockdowns don't work, what is their alternative?
They have been given ample opportunity to put forward their views but all seem obsessed with what is being done wrong, rather than what they believe we should be doing differently.
Everyone that wants a vaccine has got it at this stage. Keep at boosters and stuff if they're working but other than that just live with it.

After all your posts about Covid that's it?

Everyone who wants a vaccine has it

Just live it it?

Really insightful stuff
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 06, 2021, 10:47:31 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2021, 09:32:31 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on December 06, 2021, 07:34:56 PM
Was out in Belfast at the weekend.  Restaurant didn't walk for covid passport and some staff not wearing masks in the bar we visited.  Bit of a shambles.  Can't understand why people can't bother to do the simplest things to if nothing else, help our friends working on the frontline in hospitals.
Heard of a few places in Belfast who actually refused entry to people who didnt have the vaccine even though it isnt enforceable until the 13th. Genuinely genuinely hope they go bust.
Of course you do, you're a nihilist.

You want to see responsible businesses collapse.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on December 06, 2021, 11:06:49 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 06, 2021, 10:47:31 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 06, 2021, 09:32:31 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on December 06, 2021, 07:34:56 PM
Was out in Belfast at the weekend.  Restaurant didn't walk for covid passport and some staff not wearing masks in the bar we visited.  Bit of a shambles.  Can't understand why people can't bother to do the simplest things to if nothing else, help our friends working on the frontline in hospitals.
Heard of a few places in Belfast who actually refused entry to people who didnt have the vaccine even though it isnt enforceable until the 13th. Genuinely genuinely hope they go bust.
Of course you do, you're a nihilist.

You want to see responsible businesses collapse.
They're knocking their bollix in to make a living, probably employing young people who are glad of the work, paying their taxes so we have a health system etc, and you are wishing them to go bust?  You're bitter mate. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 11:23:10 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.
they work on the assumption everyone is sick , if you are not sick why do you have to wear one ? The one symptom everyone has with covid is fever , get a thermometer and if your temperature is above the normal get a test done , if we don't start moving forward with nearly 100% vaccination rate and after 2 years of restrictions. Common sense has disappeared in society and was in short supply before covid .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on December 06, 2021, 11:27:33 PM
I suspect more people outside of social media would take the same position as this pro vaccine business owner.

Louis Rossmann - New vaccine mandate in NYC & why my business is NOT complying

https://youtu.be/apF6bft5kFA (https://youtu.be/apF6bft5kFA)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 06, 2021, 11:28:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 11:23:10 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.
they work on the assumption everyone is sick , if you are not sick why do you have to wear one ? The one symptom everyone has with covid is fever , get a thermometer and if your temperature is above the normal get a test done , if we don't start moving forward with nearly 100% vaccination rate and after 2 years of restrictions. Common sense has disappeared in society and was in short supply before covid .

You can have covid without a fever...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 11:35:24 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 06, 2021, 11:28:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 11:23:10 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.
they work on the assumption everyone is sick , if you are not sick why do you have to wear one ? The one symptom everyone has with covid is fever , get a thermometer and if your temperature is above the normal get a test done , if we don't start moving forward with nearly 100% vaccination rate and after 2 years of restrictions. Common sense has disappeared in society and was in short supply before covid .

You can have covid without a fever...
well let's say it seems to be the most common symptom.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 06, 2021, 11:41:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 11:35:24 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 06, 2021, 11:28:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 11:23:10 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.
they work on the assumption everyone is sick , if you are not sick why do you have to wear one ? The one symptom everyone has with covid is fever , get a thermometer and if your temperature is above the normal get a test done , if we don't start moving forward with nearly 100% vaccination rate and after 2 years of restrictions. Common sense has disappeared in society and was in short supply before covid .

You can have covid without a fever...
well let's say it seems to be the most common symptom.
1 in 3 have no symptoms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 11:55:39 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 06, 2021, 11:41:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 11:35:24 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 06, 2021, 11:28:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 11:23:10 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.
they work on the assumption everyone is sick , if you are not sick why do you have to wear one ? The one symptom everyone has with covid is fever , get a thermometer and if your temperature is above the normal get a test done , if we don't start moving forward with nearly 100% vaccination rate and after 2 years of restrictions. Common sense has disappeared in society and was in short supply before covid .

You can have covid without a fever...
well let's say it seems to be the most common symptom.
1 in 3 have no symptoms.
how do you/they know they have it ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 07, 2021, 12:05:02 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 11:55:39 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 06, 2021, 11:41:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 11:35:24 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 06, 2021, 11:28:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 11:23:10 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.
they work on the assumption everyone is sick , if you are not sick why do you have to wear one ? The one symptom everyone has with covid is fever , get a thermometer and if your temperature is above the normal get a test done , if we don't start moving forward with nearly 100% vaccination rate and after 2 years of restrictions. Common sense has disappeared in society and was in short supply before covid .

You can have covid without a fever...
well let's say it seems to be the most common symptom.
1 in 3 have no symptoms.
how do you/they know they have it ?

They have done multiple community testing of all people, not just people who are Ill. It's all on line.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 07, 2021, 12:15:59 AM
Quote from: Mad Mentor on December 06, 2021, 09:55:24 PM
I've yet to see one actual practical proposal put forward by those who disagree with the way the pandemic has been handled. There have been many posts against vaccines, lockdowns etc but none of these posters have put forward an alternative. When challenged to do so, the silence for a while is deafening.
If these people genuinely believe that vaccinations and lockdowns don't work, what is their alternative?
They have been given ample opportunity to put forward their views but all seem obsessed with what is being done wrong, rather than what they believe we should be doing differently.
Not one of them has called for intellectual property to be shared with the world so vaccines can be manufactured worldwide and rolled out to the world.

Not one of them has called for N95 masks to be mass produced and distributed for free to the world's population.

Not one of them has called for governments to spend the money it would take to bring ventilation in buildings up to standard.

They're against all that because the only thing they have is to behave like parrots shouting "it's a cod, it's a cod, it's a cod".

Crazy beliefs hunt in packs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 07, 2021, 08:52:49 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on December 07, 2021, 12:15:59 AM
Quote from: Mad Mentor on December 06, 2021, 09:55:24 PM
I've yet to see one actual practical proposal put forward by those who disagree with the way the pandemic has been handled. There have been many posts against vaccines, lockdowns etc but none of these posters have put forward an alternative. When challenged to do so, the silence for a while is deafening.
If these people genuinely believe that vaccinations and lockdowns don't work, what is their alternative?
They have been given ample opportunity to put forward their views but all seem obsessed with what is being done wrong, rather than what they believe we should be doing differently.
Not one of them has called for intellectual property to be shared with the world so vaccines can be manufactured worldwide and rolled out to the world.

Not one of them has called for N95 masks to be mass produced and distributed for free to the world's population.

Not one of them has called for governments to spend the money it would take to bring ventilation in buildings up to standard.

They're against all that because the only thing they have is to behave like parrots shouting "it's a cod, it's a cod, it's a cod".

Crazy beliefs hunt in packs.
This absolutely should be happening.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on December 07, 2021, 10:15:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 11:55:39 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 06, 2021, 11:41:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 11:35:24 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 06, 2021, 11:28:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 11:23:10 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.
they work on the assumption everyone is sick , if you are not sick why do you have to wear one ? The one symptom everyone has with covid is fever , get a thermometer and if your temperature is above the normal get a test done , if we don't start moving forward with nearly 100% vaccination rate and after 2 years of restrictions. Common sense has disappeared in society and was in short supply before covid .

You can have covid without a fever...
well let's say it seems to be the most common symptom.
1 in 3 have no symptoms.
how do you/they know they have it ?

GMAC you are in here quite a bit debating various subjects, quoting different articles etc, so you seem to be intelligent and well read on some subjects.

Can I ask you how is it possible that you are unaware that a fair percentage of people with Covid are asymptomatic? Like that has been mentioned on here dozens and dozens of times, and TBH any reasonably intelligent 10 year old could have gleaned that from the news within the first couple of weeks of the pandemic starting. It is not an issue that is up for debate or contentious or has only come to light, yet you seem to be entirely unaware of it.

How can that be?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 07, 2021, 10:37:50 AM
If you search enough you will find articles that say asymptomatic is not a thing. There are people who don't believe it's real. Whether gmac is one of them I don't know...

(Just to be clear I am not one of those people but I try to read articles from various viewpoints and that is one viewpoint)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on December 07, 2021, 12:03:00 PM
Another view from someone much better qualified than ourselves.
https://youtu.be/Jxkb2yhdLiA
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 07, 2021, 12:22:17 PM
Quote from: Last Man on December 07, 2021, 12:03:00 PM
Another view from someone much better qualified than ourselves.
https://youtu.be/Jxkb2yhdLiA

Typical, are you suggesting just because these people have PhDs and 30 years working on this stuff does not mean that they know more about this stuff than someone on this board who read something on Facebook?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 07, 2021, 12:34:46 PM
Looking to book a show in Dublin in Feb, with the way things are going at the minute is it worthwhile booking? Is there a chance that they will stop these 'super spreader' events
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2021, 01:58:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 07, 2021, 12:34:46 PM
Looking to book a show in Dublin in Feb, with the way things are going at the minute is it worthwhile booking? Is there a chance that they will stop these 'super spreader' events

Already got email saying we might not get to Lion King(reduced by 50%) booked ages ago
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 07, 2021, 02:00:56 PM
Quote from: Last Man on December 07, 2021, 12:03:00 PM
Another view from someone much better qualified than ourselves.
https://youtu.be/Jxkb2yhdLiA


Clearly not..... it refers to a paper, not peer reviewed, that was first shared here  https://twitter.com/MartinNeil9/status/1466814347762671628?t=ReIXOjXKU44AlhuzPiEcvA&s=19 (https://twitter.com/MartinNeil9/status/1466814347762671628?t=ReIXOjXKU44AlhuzPiEcvA&s=19)

A number of people have already questioned the manipulation of the data to prove the hypothesis of the paper.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 07, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.

Most surgical masks or covid-type face coverings are useless to protect you from something like paint vapours and aerosols. They don't form a seal, nor are they necessarily made from tested or appropriate filtering material (you need activated carbon/charcoal or similar for the vapours but a different filtering material for the aerosols/droplets). Surgical masks might stop a few large droplets getting through I guess, but that's not what they're designed for. They're designed to protect the people around the person wearing it, traditionally the patient being treated by the surgeon or other health practitioner so that the patient doesn't get infected by anything the health practitioner is exhaling.

When it comes to covid, its the same thing. A form of source control to lower the chances of the wearer infecting others.

Of course, you can add to that for your own benefit by wearing something like an N95 respirator instead of a surgical or cloth mask. A proper respirator will also offer the wearer some level of protection (assuming its worn correctly, clean-shaven etc. so that it forms a seal).

I've seen debates about N95s with exhalation valves. The issue being that the exhalation valve allows unhindered release of exhaled air and thus defeats the purpose of the whole masking exercise when it comes to covid. Which is true for the most part. However, if you have someone who ALWAYS wears a properly fitted N95 (clean shaven etc), then they're probably much less likely to contract covid in the first place and thus less likely to infect others and so possibly a better masking participant than the person with only a surgical mask or cloth covering.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 07, 2021, 02:52:14 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on December 07, 2021, 10:15:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 11:55:39 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 06, 2021, 11:41:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 11:35:24 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 06, 2021, 11:28:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 06, 2021, 11:23:10 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.
they work on the assumption everyone is sick , if you are not sick why do you have to wear one ? The one symptom everyone has with covid is fever , get a thermometer and if your temperature is above the normal get a test done , if we don't start moving forward with nearly 100% vaccination rate and after 2 years of restrictions. Common sense has disappeared in society and was in short supply before covid .

You can have covid without a fever...
well let's say it seems to be the most common symptom.
1 in 3 have no symptoms.
how do you/they know they have it ?

GMAC you are in here quite a bit debating various subjects, quoting different articles etc, so you seem to be intelligent and well read on some subjects.

Can I ask you how is it possible that you are unaware that a fair percentage of people with Covid are asymptomatic? Like that has been mentioned on here dozens and dozens of times, and TBH any reasonably intelligent 10 year old could have gleaned that from the news within the first couple of weeks of the pandemic starting. It is not an issue that is up for debate or contentious or has only come to light, yet you seem to be entirely unaware of it.

How can that be?
of course I've heard of it, play this thread on a loop for another year or 2 because nothing is changing if you have 95% + of 18+'vaccinated  and restrictions are coming back , move to Florida and have a nice life
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 07, 2021, 04:28:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 07, 2021, 02:52:14 PM
of course I've heard of it, play this thread on a loop for another year or 2 because nothing is changing if you have 95% + of 18+'vaccinated  and restrictions are coming back , move to Florida and have a nice life

See Naples and die!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 07, 2021, 06:41:21 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 07, 2021, 01:58:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 07, 2021, 12:34:46 PM
Looking to book a show in Dublin in Feb, with the way things are going at the minute is it worthwhile booking? Is there a chance that they will stop these 'super spreader' events

Already got email saying we might not get to Lion King(reduced by 50%) booked ages ago

Seen that in late February, so hopefully things will pass!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on December 07, 2021, 07:01:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.

Most surgical masks or covid-type face coverings are useless to protect you from something like paint vapours and aerosols. They don't form a seal, nor are they necessarily made from tested or appropriate filtering material (you need activated carbon/charcoal or similar for the vapours but a different filtering material for the aerosols/droplets). Surgical masks might stop a few large droplets getting through I guess, but that's not what they're designed for. They're designed to protect the people around the person wearing it, traditionally the patient being treated by the surgeon or other health practitioner so that the patient doesn't get infected by anything the health practitioner is exhaling.

When it comes to covid, its the same thing. A form of source control to lower the chances of the wearer infecting others.

Of course, you can add to that for your own benefit by wearing something like an N95 respirator instead of a surgical or cloth mask. A proper respirator will also offer the wearer some level of protection (assuming its worn correctly, clean-shaven etc. so that it forms a seal).

I've seen debates about N95s with exhalation valves. The issue being that the exhalation valve allows unhindered release of exhaled air and thus defeats the purpose of the whole masking exercise when it comes to covid. Which is true for the most part. However, if you have someone who ALWAYS wears a properly fitted N95 (clean shaven etc), then they're probably much less likely to contract covid in the first place and thus less likely to infect others and so possibly a better masking participant than the person with only a surgical mask or cloth covering.

Different standards of protective masks. N95 is comparable to ffp2, but for effective protection certainly in a health care setting the minimum is an ffp3(comparable n99 in states) mask.

The problem with ppf3 masks in a healthcare or any other setting, is that to be effective they need to be fit tested and the operator trained in their use.
       Each time they don the mask and take it off needs to have the same reproducible effective results.
     The process takes about 40-60 mins and cost wise is approx £65 per person.
       Because they are fit tested with one specific mask, they technically can only use the same brand and type of disposable mask. 
       Disposable masks are designed for single session use and at a couple of quid each probably too expensive for most people. You'd need a few each day.
      You can purchase a reusable ppf3 mask and replace the filters( the masks are approx £40) and the filters are £10. Again to be fully effective need fit tested.
        I suppose you could wear either type without fit testing but then it won't be as effective. It would certainly be better than those surgical/cloth face masks which are not very effective at all at preventing virus transmission. 
          The idea of mass producing n95(actually needs to be n99/ppf3) and supplying them for the world population free of charge shows a basic lack of understanding of how masks are used.
         Each and every person in the world would require a fit test by a trained expert. There would also need to be a guaranteed supply of the exact same mask that they used for their  fit test for as long as this pandemic lasts for.
           I think world governments should try to feed the starving before worrying about masks!
       I'm not directing that last bit at you btw.
       
       
     
       
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 07, 2021, 08:57:11 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 07, 2021, 07:01:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.

Most surgical masks or covid-type face coverings are useless to protect you from something like paint vapours and aerosols. They don't form a seal, nor are they necessarily made from tested or appropriate filtering material (you need activated carbon/charcoal or similar for the vapours but a different filtering material for the aerosols/droplets). Surgical masks might stop a few large droplets getting through I guess, but that's not what they're designed for. They're designed to protect the people around the person wearing it, traditionally the patient being treated by the surgeon or other health practitioner so that the patient doesn't get infected by anything the health practitioner is exhaling.

When it comes to covid, its the same thing. A form of source control to lower the chances of the wearer infecting others.

Of course, you can add to that for your own benefit by wearing something like an N95 respirator instead of a surgical or cloth mask. A proper respirator will also offer the wearer some level of protection (assuming its worn correctly, clean-shaven etc. so that it forms a seal).

I've seen debates about N95s with exhalation valves. The issue being that the exhalation valve allows unhindered release of exhaled air and thus defeats the purpose of the whole masking exercise when it comes to covid. Which is true for the most part. However, if you have someone who ALWAYS wears a properly fitted N95 (clean shaven etc), then they're probably much less likely to contract covid in the first place and thus less likely to infect others and so possibly a better masking participant than the person with only a surgical mask or cloth covering.

Different standards of protective masks. N95 is comparable to ffp2, but for effective protection certainly in a health care setting the minimum is an ffp3(comparable n99 in states) mask.

The problem with ppf3 masks in a healthcare or any other setting, is that to be effective they need to be fit tested and the operator trained in their use.
       Each time they don the mask and take it off needs to have the same reproducible effective results.
     The process takes about 40-60 mins and cost wise is approx £65 per person.
       Because they are fit tested with one specific mask, they technically can only use the same brand and type of disposable mask. 
       Disposable masks are designed for single session use and at a couple of quid each probably too expensive for most people. You'd need a few each day.
      You can purchase a reusable ppf3 mask and replace the filters( the masks are approx £40) and the filters are £10. Again to be fully effective need fit tested.
        I suppose you could wear either type without fit testing but then it won't be as effective. It would certainly be better than those surgical/cloth face masks which are not very effective at all at preventing virus transmission. 
          The idea of mass producing n95(actually needs to be n99/ppf3) and supplying them for the world population free of charge shows a basic lack of understanding of how masks are used.
         Each and every person in the world would require a fit test by a trained expert. There would also need to be a guaranteed supply of the exact same mask that they used for their  fit test for as long as this pandemic lasts for.
           I think world governments should try to feed the starving before worrying about masks!
       I'm not directing that last bit at you btw.
       
       
     
       

Yeah, I'm well aware of fit testing and so on (65 pound/head - someone's cleaning up! ;D), but for the average man in the street its not an option. That said, an N95/99 or euro equivalents worn clean shaven with straps where they should be are still a damn sight better than a surgical mask or cloth facial cover for protecting the wearer (as you say).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on December 07, 2021, 11:22:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2021, 08:57:11 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 07, 2021, 07:01:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.

Most surgical masks or covid-type face coverings are useless to protect you from something like paint vapours and aerosols. They don't form a seal, nor are they necessarily made from tested or appropriate filtering material (you need activated carbon/charcoal or similar for the vapours but a different filtering material for the aerosols/droplets). Surgical masks might stop a few large droplets getting through I guess, but that's not what they're designed for. They're designed to protect the people around the person wearing it, traditionally the patient being treated by the surgeon or other health practitioner so that the patient doesn't get infected by anything the health practitioner is exhaling.

When it comes to covid, its the same thing. A form of source control to lower the chances of the wearer infecting others.

Of course, you can add to that for your own benefit by wearing something like an N95 respirator instead of a surgical or cloth mask. A proper respirator will also offer the wearer some level of protection (assuming its worn correctly, clean-shaven etc. so that it forms a seal).

I've seen debates about N95s with exhalation valves. The issue being that the exhalation valve allows unhindered release of exhaled air and thus defeats the purpose of the whole masking exercise when it comes to covid. Which is true for the most part. However, if you have someone who ALWAYS wears a properly fitted N95 (clean shaven etc), then they're probably much less likely to contract covid in the first place and thus less likely to infect others and so possibly a better masking participant than the person with only a surgical mask or cloth covering.

Different standards of protective masks. N95 is comparable to ffp2, but for effective protection certainly in a health care setting the minimum is an ffp3(comparable n99 in states) mask.

The problem with ppf3 masks in a healthcare or any other setting, is that to be effective they need to be fit tested and the operator trained in their use.
       Each time they don the mask and take it off needs to have the same reproducible effective results.
     The process takes about 40-60 mins and cost wise is approx £65 per person.
       Because they are fit tested with one specific mask, they technically can only use the same brand and type of disposable mask. 
       Disposable masks are designed for single session use and at a couple of quid each probably too expensive for most people. You'd need a few each day.
      You can purchase a reusable ppf3 mask and replace the filters( the masks are approx £40) and the filters are £10. Again to be fully effective need fit tested.
        I suppose you could wear either type without fit testing but then it won't be as effective. It would certainly be better than those surgical/cloth face masks which are not very effective at all at preventing virus transmission. 
          The idea of mass producing n95(actually needs to be n99/ppf3) and supplying them for the world population free of charge shows a basic lack of understanding of how masks are used.
         Each and every person in the world would require a fit test by a trained expert. There would also need to be a guaranteed supply of the exact same mask that they used for their  fit test for as long as this pandemic lasts for.
           I think world governments should try to feed the starving before worrying about masks!
       I'm not directing that last bit at you btw.
       
       
     
       

Yeah, I'm well aware of fit testing and so on (65 pound/head - someone's cleaning up! ;D), but for the average man in the street its not an option. That said, an N95/99 or euro equivalents worn clean shaven with straps where they should be are still a damn sight better than a surgical mask or cloth facial cover for protecting the wearer (as you say).

In an ideal world sure.
       But we both know that n99/ppf3 will be carried from post to pillar. Trailed in and out of their pockets/handbags/cars and in itself will become a danger.
       How many times do you see people touching at and moving their mask? Scratching their nose and mouth. The same mask used for days or weeks!
       The fact they want 5 or 6 year olds to wear a fabric/surgical mask at school and expect a measurable decrease in transmission/infection rates within the group because of the masks is hard to fathom.
       
       
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 08, 2021, 01:20:26 PM
Twitter thread of John Burn Murdoch (retweeted by Adam Boulton of Sky), that gives some encouraging data from South Africa / Omicron related.

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1468310548609744904?t=x5p_YN8LkAkBxzGdldhruA&s=19
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on December 08, 2021, 11:30:12 PM
Some very good advice to pass on to all your elderly loved ones

Why oh why can this not form a large part of the official messaging one has to wonder

https://youtu.be/HBqQT2VJclU (https://youtu.be/HBqQT2VJclU)

A fair dig in here IMO (though not what the video is about) about why vaccines were not distributed worldwide to protect the most vulnerable globally during the vaccine roll out rather than the wealthy countries hoarding supplies to use on their whole populations
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 09, 2021, 12:39:44 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 08, 2021, 11:30:12 PM
Some very good advice to pass on to all your elderly loved ones

Why oh why can this not form a large part of the official messaging one has to wonder

https://youtu.be/HBqQT2VJclU (https://youtu.be/HBqQT2VJclU)

A fair dig in here IMO (though not what the video is about) about why vaccines were not distributed worldwide to protect the most vulnerable globally during the vaccine roll out rather than the wealthy countries hoarding supplies to use on their whole populations


Hard to argue with that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on December 09, 2021, 06:53:15 AM
But haven't "all of us" being protecting the elderly all through this!! Loneliness; Mental health; Tea and toast diet.
As
For the morals of prioritising vaccines, we know well our innate ability to turn a blind eye to stuff like that. Apex predators after all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 09, 2021, 07:54:26 AM



https://twitter.com/SocksPoker/status/1468393438718480385 (https://twitter.com/SocksPoker/status/1468393438718480385)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 09, 2021, 08:41:13 AM
Ah right that tweet has changed everything  ???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 09, 2021, 09:14:48 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 08, 2021, 11:30:12 PM
Some very good advice to pass on to all your elderly loved ones

Why oh why can this not form a large part of the official messaging one has to wonder

https://youtu.be/HBqQT2VJclU (https://youtu.be/HBqQT2VJclU)

A fair dig in here IMO (though not what the video is about) about why vaccines were not distributed worldwide to protect the most vulnerable globally during the vaccine roll out rather than the wealthy countries hoarding supplies to use on their whole populations


Hardly rocket science, eat a good diet and exercise. The problem is that quite often it's the people with the best immune systems who get really sick with Covid. Their immune system overreacts and that causes serious problems. That's why one of the main treatments now in hospital is dexamethasone which dampens down the immune reaction. The best way to ensure your immune system is primed and ready to go is to get vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on December 09, 2021, 02:42:03 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 09, 2021, 08:41:13 AM
Ah right that tweet has changed everything  ???

Going by his views on here its not a surprise than Bunkers view his highly influenced by Ivor Cummins and Fox news.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Truth hurts on December 09, 2021, 04:54:50 PM
im confused, should i get the booster, there is some crap on the internet?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 09, 2021, 04:59:02 PM
Quote from: Truth hurts on December 09, 2021, 04:54:50 PM
im confused, should i get the booster, there is some crap on the internet?

Yes, get the booster. No, don't throw caution to the wind thereafter. You can still get it and you can still spread it, even if the vaccine helps to reduce the impact of both.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 09, 2021, 06:23:38 PM
I love the Jose mourinho everyone is out to get me thing you have going on ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: CK_Redhand on December 09, 2021, 06:27:37 PM
Angelo aka thatstheball is dunning kruger
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 06:43:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.

Most surgical masks or covid-type face coverings are useless to protect you from something like paint vapours and aerosols. They don't form a seal, nor are they necessarily made from tested or appropriate filtering material (you need activated carbon/charcoal or similar for the vapours but a different filtering material for the aerosols/droplets). Surgical masks might stop a few large droplets getting through I guess, but that's not what they're designed for. They're designed to protect the people around the person wearing it, traditionally the patient being treated by the surgeon or other health practitioner so that the patient doesn't get infected by anything the health practitioner is exhaling.

When it comes to covid, its the same thing. A form of source control to lower the chances of the wearer infecting others.

Of course, you can add to that for your own benefit by wearing something like an N95 respirator instead of a surgical or cloth mask. A proper respirator will also offer the wearer some level of protection (assuming its worn correctly, clean-shaven etc. so that it forms a seal).

I've seen debates about N95s with exhalation valves. The issue being that the exhalation valve allows unhindered release of exhaled air and thus defeats the purpose of the whole masking exercise when it comes to covid. Which is true for the most part. However, if you have someone who ALWAYS wears a properly fitted N95 (clean shaven etc), then they're probably much less likely to contract covid in the first place and thus less likely to infect others and so possibly a better masking participant than the person with only a surgical mask or cloth covering.
I just bought a  50 pack disposable masks in Walgreens and when I was opening them up it says easy to breathe through on box , i billion of these pieces of garbage in the oceans too , too many people getting rich to stop anytime soon
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 06:43:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.

Most surgical masks or covid-type face coverings are useless to protect you from something like paint vapours and aerosols. They don't form a seal, nor are they necessarily made from tested or appropriate filtering material (you need activated carbon/charcoal or similar for the vapours but a different filtering material for the aerosols/droplets). Surgical masks might stop a few large droplets getting through I guess, but that's not what they're designed for. They're designed to protect the people around the person wearing it, traditionally the patient being treated by the surgeon or other health practitioner so that the patient doesn't get infected by anything the health practitioner is exhaling.

When it comes to covid, its the same thing. A form of source control to lower the chances of the wearer infecting others.

Of course, you can add to that for your own benefit by wearing something like an N95 respirator instead of a surgical or cloth mask. A proper respirator will also offer the wearer some level of protection (assuming its worn correctly, clean-shaven etc. so that it forms a seal).

I've seen debates about N95s with exhalation valves. The issue being that the exhalation valve allows unhindered release of exhaled air and thus defeats the purpose of the whole masking exercise when it comes to covid. Which is true for the most part. However, if you have someone who ALWAYS wears a properly fitted N95 (clean shaven etc), then they're probably much less likely to contract covid in the first place and thus less likely to infect others and so possibly a better masking participant than the person with only a surgical mask or cloth covering.
I just bought a  50 pack disposable masks in Walgreens and when I was opening them up it says easy to breathe through on box , i billion of these pieces of garbage in the oceans too , too many people getting rich to stop anytime soon

I'd recommend for you those masks you can't breathe through. Wear them for an hour or 2 and you'll be well protected from Covid. Don't mention it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 07:11:45 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 06:43:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.

Most surgical masks or covid-type face coverings are useless to protect you from something like paint vapours and aerosols. They don't form a seal, nor are they necessarily made from tested or appropriate filtering material (you need activated carbon/charcoal or similar for the vapours but a different filtering material for the aerosols/droplets). Surgical masks might stop a few large droplets getting through I guess, but that's not what they're designed for. They're designed to protect the people around the person wearing it, traditionally the patient being treated by the surgeon or other health practitioner so that the patient doesn't get infected by anything the health practitioner is exhaling.

When it comes to covid, its the same thing. A form of source control to lower the chances of the wearer infecting others.

Of course, you can add to that for your own benefit by wearing something like an N95 respirator instead of a surgical or cloth mask. A proper respirator will also offer the wearer some level of protection (assuming its worn correctly, clean-shaven etc. so that it forms a seal).

I've seen debates about N95s with exhalation valves. The issue being that the exhalation valve allows unhindered release of exhaled air and thus defeats the purpose of the whole masking exercise when it comes to covid. Which is true for the most part. However, if you have someone who ALWAYS wears a properly fitted N95 (clean shaven etc), then they're probably much less likely to contract covid in the first place and thus less likely to infect others and so possibly a better masking participant than the person with only a surgical mask or cloth covering.
I just bought a  50 pack disposable masks in Walgreens and when I was opening them up it says easy to breathe through on box , i billion of these pieces of garbage in the oceans too , too many people getting rich to stop anytime soon

I'd recommend for you those masks you can't breathe through. Wear them for an hour or 2 and you'll be well protected from Covid. Don't mention it.
you can only breathe the virus in Lenny is it not out ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 09, 2021, 07:46:56 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 07:11:45 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 06:43:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.

Most surgical masks or covid-type face coverings are useless to protect you from something like paint vapours and aerosols. They don't form a seal, nor are they necessarily made from tested or appropriate filtering material (you need activated carbon/charcoal or similar for the vapours but a different filtering material for the aerosols/droplets). Surgical masks might stop a few large droplets getting through I guess, but that's not what they're designed for. They're designed to protect the people around the person wearing it, traditionally the patient being treated by the surgeon or other health practitioner so that the patient doesn't get infected by anything the health practitioner is exhaling.

When it comes to covid, its the same thing. A form of source control to lower the chances of the wearer infecting others.

Of course, you can add to that for your own benefit by wearing something like an N95 respirator instead of a surgical or cloth mask. A proper respirator will also offer the wearer some level of protection (assuming its worn correctly, clean-shaven etc. so that it forms a seal).

I've seen debates about N95s with exhalation valves. The issue being that the exhalation valve allows unhindered release of exhaled air and thus defeats the purpose of the whole masking exercise when it comes to covid. Which is true for the most part. However, if you have someone who ALWAYS wears a properly fitted N95 (clean shaven etc), then they're probably much less likely to contract covid in the first place and thus less likely to infect others and so possibly a better masking participant than the person with only a surgical mask or cloth covering.
I just bought a  50 pack disposable masks in Walgreens and when I was opening them up it says easy to breathe through on box , i billion of these pieces of garbage in the oceans too , too many people getting rich to stop anytime soon

I'd recommend for you those masks you can't breathe through. Wear them for an hour or 2 and you'll be well protected from Covid. Don't mention it.
you can only breathe the virus in Lenny is it not out ?

The virus travels in droplets, the masks catch the vast majority of those. It's not that hard to understand. Masks have been shown to work. In Asian countries where they're strictly adhered to there's much less transmission.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 07:51:16 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 06:43:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.

Most surgical masks or covid-type face coverings are useless to protect you from something like paint vapours and aerosols. They don't form a seal, nor are they necessarily made from tested or appropriate filtering material (you need activated carbon/charcoal or similar for the vapours but a different filtering material for the aerosols/droplets). Surgical masks might stop a few large droplets getting through I guess, but that's not what they're designed for. They're designed to protect the people around the person wearing it, traditionally the patient being treated by the surgeon or other health practitioner so that the patient doesn't get infected by anything the health practitioner is exhaling.

When it comes to covid, its the same thing. A form of source control to lower the chances of the wearer infecting others.

Of course, you can add to that for your own benefit by wearing something like an N95 respirator instead of a surgical or cloth mask. A proper respirator will also offer the wearer some level of protection (assuming its worn correctly, clean-shaven etc. so that it forms a seal).

I've seen debates about N95s with exhalation valves. The issue being that the exhalation valve allows unhindered release of exhaled air and thus defeats the purpose of the whole masking exercise when it comes to covid. Which is true for the most part. However, if you have someone who ALWAYS wears a properly fitted N95 (clean shaven etc), then they're probably much less likely to contract covid in the first place and thus less likely to infect others and so possibly a better masking participant than the person with only a surgical mask or cloth covering.
I just bought a  50 pack disposable masks in Walgreens and when I was opening them up it says easy to breathe through on box , i billion of these pieces of garbage in the oceans too , too many people getting rich to stop anytime soon

I'd recommend for you those masks you can't breathe through. Wear them for an hour or 2 and you'll be well protected from Covid. Don't mention it.
when did you get so radicalized your hoping people suffocate themselves, another lovely liberal
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2021, 01:30:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 07:51:16 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 06:43:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.

Most surgical masks or covid-type face coverings are useless to protect you from something like paint vapours and aerosols. They don't form a seal, nor are they necessarily made from tested or appropriate filtering material (you need activated carbon/charcoal or similar for the vapours but a different filtering material for the aerosols/droplets). Surgical masks might stop a few large droplets getting through I guess, but that's not what they're designed for. They're designed to protect the people around the person wearing it, traditionally the patient being treated by the surgeon or other health practitioner so that the patient doesn't get infected by anything the health practitioner is exhaling.

When it comes to covid, its the same thing. A form of source control to lower the chances of the wearer infecting others.

Of course, you can add to that for your own benefit by wearing something like an N95 respirator instead of a surgical or cloth mask. A proper respirator will also offer the wearer some level of protection (assuming its worn correctly, clean-shaven etc. so that it forms a seal).

I've seen debates about N95s with exhalation valves. The issue being that the exhalation valve allows unhindered release of exhaled air and thus defeats the purpose of the whole masking exercise when it comes to covid. Which is true for the most part. However, if you have someone who ALWAYS wears a properly fitted N95 (clean shaven etc), then they're probably much less likely to contract covid in the first place and thus less likely to infect others and so possibly a better masking participant than the person with only a surgical mask or cloth covering.
I just bought a  50 pack disposable masks in Walgreens and when I was opening them up it says easy to breathe through on box , i billion of these pieces of garbage in the oceans too , too many people getting rich to stop anytime soon

I'd recommend for you those masks you can't breathe through. Wear them for an hour or 2 and you'll be well protected from Covid. Don't mention it.
when did you get so radicalized your hoping people suffocate themselves, another lovely liberal

So suffocation is the latest buzzword from the fever swamps, is it? Those stats must be through the stratosphere then so over the past 18 months with all the people masking.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 10, 2021, 02:18:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2021, 01:30:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 07:51:16 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 06:43:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.

Most surgical masks or covid-type face coverings are useless to protect you from something like paint vapours and aerosols. They don't form a seal, nor are they necessarily made from tested or appropriate filtering material (you need activated carbon/charcoal or similar for the vapours but a different filtering material for the aerosols/droplets). Surgical masks might stop a few large droplets getting through I guess, but that's not what they're designed for. They're designed to protect the people around the person wearing it, traditionally the patient being treated by the surgeon or other health practitioner so that the patient doesn't get infected by anything the health practitioner is exhaling.

When it comes to covid, its the same thing. A form of source control to lower the chances of the wearer infecting others.

Of course, you can add to that for your own benefit by wearing something like an N95 respirator instead of a surgical or cloth mask. A proper respirator will also offer the wearer some level of protection (assuming its worn correctly, clean-shaven etc. so that it forms a seal).

I've seen debates about N95s with exhalation valves. The issue being that the exhalation valve allows unhindered release of exhaled air and thus defeats the purpose of the whole masking exercise when it comes to covid. Which is true for the most part. However, if you have someone who ALWAYS wears a properly fitted N95 (clean shaven etc), then they're probably much less likely to contract covid in the first place and thus less likely to infect others and so possibly a better masking participant than the person with only a surgical mask or cloth covering.
I just bought a  50 pack disposable masks in Walgreens and when I was opening them up it says easy to breathe through on box , i billion of these pieces of garbage in the oceans too , too many people getting rich to stop anytime soon

I'd recommend for you those masks you can't breathe through. Wear them for an hour or 2 and you'll be well protected from Covid. Don't mention it.
when did you get so radicalized your hoping people suffocate themselves, another lovely liberal

So suffocation is the latest buzzword from the fever swamps, is it? Those stats must be through the stratosphere then so over the past 18 months with all the people masking.
did you read what he said ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on December 10, 2021, 02:41:40 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 09, 2021, 04:39:39 PM
I suppose many of posters on here who have forgotten to think for themselves will blame twitter or Jane from Facebook.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext?s=08#%20 (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext?s=08#%20)

It is so obvious, but hey blame the unvaccinated

I will admit to feeling troubled and at times sceptical when respected medical journals publish articles on COVID that suggest my own views might be in need of revision (or perhaps flat out wrong).   Like the one you linked.

How do articles in respected scientific journals that cut against your view affect your thinking on the matter?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on December 10, 2021, 08:41:14 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2021, 02:18:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2021, 01:30:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 07:51:16 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 06:43:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.

Most surgical masks or covid-type face coverings are useless to protect you from something like paint vapours and aerosols. They don't form a seal, nor are they necessarily made from tested or appropriate filtering material (you need activated carbon/charcoal or similar for the vapours but a different filtering material for the aerosols/droplets). Surgical masks might stop a few large droplets getting through I guess, but that's not what they're designed for. They're designed to protect the people around the person wearing it, traditionally the patient being treated by the surgeon or other health practitioner so that the patient doesn't get infected by anything the health practitioner is exhaling.

When it comes to covid, its the same thing. A form of source control to lower the chances of the wearer infecting others.

Of course, you can add to that for your own benefit by wearing something like an N95 respirator instead of a surgical or cloth mask. A proper respirator will also offer the wearer some level of protection (assuming its worn correctly, clean-shaven etc. so that it forms a seal).

I've seen debates about N95s with exhalation valves. The issue being that the exhalation valve allows unhindered release of exhaled air and thus defeats the purpose of the whole masking exercise when it comes to covid. Which is true for the most part. However, if you have someone who ALWAYS wears a properly fitted N95 (clean shaven etc), then they're probably much less likely to contract covid in the first place and thus less likely to infect others and so possibly a better masking participant than the person with only a surgical mask or cloth covering.
I just bought a  50 pack disposable masks in Walgreens and when I was opening them up it says easy to breathe through on box , i billion of these pieces of garbage in the oceans too , too many people getting rich to stop anytime soon

I'd recommend for you those masks you can't breathe through. Wear them for an hour or 2 and you'll be well protected from Covid. Don't mention it.
when did you get so radicalized your hoping people suffocate themselves, another lovely liberal

So suffocation is the latest buzzword from the fever swamps, is it? Those stats must be through the stratosphere then so over the past 18 months with all the people masking.
did you read what he said ?

It was clearly a joke you f**king snowflake.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on December 10, 2021, 09:10:35 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 10, 2021, 08:41:14 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2021, 02:18:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2021, 01:30:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 07:51:16 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 06:43:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.

Most surgical masks or covid-type face coverings are useless to protect you from something like paint vapours and aerosols. They don't form a seal, nor are they necessarily made from tested or appropriate filtering material (you need activated carbon/charcoal or similar for the vapours but a different filtering material for the aerosols/droplets). Surgical masks might stop a few large droplets getting through I guess, but that's not what they're designed for. They're designed to protect the people around the person wearing it, traditionally the patient being treated by the surgeon or other health practitioner so that the patient doesn't get infected by anything the health practitioner is exhaling.

When it comes to covid, its the same thing. A form of source control to lower the chances of the wearer infecting others.

Of course, you can add to that for your own benefit by wearing something like an N95 respirator instead of a surgical or cloth mask. A proper respirator will also offer the wearer some level of protection (assuming its worn correctly, clean-shaven etc. so that it forms a seal).

I've seen debates about N95s with exhalation valves. The issue being that the exhalation valve allows unhindered release of exhaled air and thus defeats the purpose of the whole masking exercise when it comes to covid. Which is true for the most part. However, if you have someone who ALWAYS wears a properly fitted N95 (clean shaven etc), then they're probably much less likely to contract covid in the first place and thus less likely to infect others and so possibly a better masking participant than the person with only a surgical mask or cloth covering.
I just bought a  50 pack disposable masks in Walgreens and when I was opening them up it says easy to breathe through on box , i billion of these pieces of garbage in the oceans too , too many people getting rich to stop anytime soon

I'd recommend for you those masks you can't breathe through. Wear them for an hour or 2 and you'll be well protected from Covid. Don't mention it.
when did you get so radicalized your hoping people suffocate themselves, another lovely liberal

So suffocation is the latest buzzword from the fever swamps, is it? Those stats must be through the stratosphere then so over the past 18 months with all the people masking.
did you read what he said ?

It was clearly a joke you f**king snowflake.

Did the joke make you laugh or cause you amusement? By definition thats what a joke is meant to do, i suppose its subjective. Definitely didn't make me laugh, thought it was a daft thing to say to be honest. Liberals are a rare breed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 10, 2021, 09:11:27 AM
Are people who wear masks the new liberals? When and how did this happen?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 10, 2021, 09:15:23 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 10, 2021, 09:11:27 AM
Are people who wear masks the new liberals? When and how did this happen?

and despite a majority wearing masks and getting vaccinated and boosters they are a "rare breed"... sure who can argue with logical like that. .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on December 10, 2021, 09:22:04 AM
Quote from: Rudi on December 10, 2021, 09:10:35 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 10, 2021, 08:41:14 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2021, 02:18:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2021, 01:30:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 07:51:16 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 06:43:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.

Most surgical masks or covid-type face coverings are useless to protect you from something like paint vapours and aerosols. They don't form a seal, nor are they necessarily made from tested or appropriate filtering material (you need activated carbon/charcoal or similar for the vapours but a different filtering material for the aerosols/droplets). Surgical masks might stop a few large droplets getting through I guess, but that's not what they're designed for. They're designed to protect the people around the person wearing it, traditionally the patient being treated by the surgeon or other health practitioner so that the patient doesn't get infected by anything the health practitioner is exhaling.

When it comes to covid, its the same thing. A form of source control to lower the chances of the wearer infecting others.

Of course, you can add to that for your own benefit by wearing something like an N95 respirator instead of a surgical or cloth mask. A proper respirator will also offer the wearer some level of protection (assuming its worn correctly, clean-shaven etc. so that it forms a seal).

I've seen debates about N95s with exhalation valves. The issue being that the exhalation valve allows unhindered release of exhaled air and thus defeats the purpose of the whole masking exercise when it comes to covid. Which is true for the most part. However, if you have someone who ALWAYS wears a properly fitted N95 (clean shaven etc), then they're probably much less likely to contract covid in the first place and thus less likely to infect others and so possibly a better masking participant than the person with only a surgical mask or cloth covering.
I just bought a  50 pack disposable masks in Walgreens and when I was opening them up it says easy to breathe through on box , i billion of these pieces of garbage in the oceans too , too many people getting rich to stop anytime soon

I'd recommend for you those masks you can't breathe through. Wear them for an hour or 2 and you'll be well protected from Covid. Don't mention it.
when did you get so radicalized your hoping people suffocate themselves, another lovely liberal

So suffocation is the latest buzzword from the fever swamps, is it? Those stats must be through the stratosphere then so over the past 18 months with all the people masking.
did you read what he said ?

It was clearly a joke you f**king snowflake.

Did the joke make you laugh or cause you amusement? By definition thats what a joke is meant to do, i suppose its subjective. Definitely didn't make me laugh, thought it was a daft thing to say to be honest. Liberals are a rare breed.

Not shocked, I would say very little does.

Being anti-everything and spending all your life moaning about it has to be a joyless existence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on December 10, 2021, 09:38:46 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 10, 2021, 09:11:27 AM
Are people who wear masks the new liberals? When and how did this happen?

100% missing what was said. I wear a mask not an issue. Read what Lenny said, like a good lad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on December 10, 2021, 09:41:54 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 10, 2021, 09:15:23 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 10, 2021, 09:11:27 AM
Are people who wear masks the new liberals? When and how did this happen?

and despite a majority wearing masks and getting vaccinated and boosters they are a "rare breed"... sure who can argue with logical like that. .

Bit surprised with you Padraig. Thats not what I'm saying. Read what Lenny said regarding masks. I have 100% no problem with wearing a mask. I have no problem with people taking vaccines either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on December 10, 2021, 09:44:50 AM
Quote from: lenny on December 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 06:43:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.

Most surgical masks or covid-type face coverings are useless to protect you from something like paint vapours and aerosols. They don't form a seal, nor are they necessarily made from tested or appropriate filtering material (you need activated carbon/charcoal or similar for the vapours but a different filtering material for the aerosols/droplets). Surgical masks might stop a few large droplets getting through I guess, but that's not what they're designed for. They're designed to protect the people around the person wearing it, traditionally the patient being treated by the surgeon or other health practitioner so that the patient doesn't get infected by anything the health practitioner is exhaling.

When it comes to covid, its the same thing. A form of source control to lower the chances of the wearer infecting others.

Of course, you can add to that for your own benefit by wearing something like an N95 respirator instead of a surgical or cloth mask. A proper respirator will also offer the wearer some level of protection (assuming its worn correctly, clean-shaven etc. so that it forms a seal).

I've seen debates about N95s with exhalation valves. The issue being that the exhalation valve allows unhindered release of exhaled air and thus defeats the purpose of the whole masking exercise when it comes to covid. Which is true for the most part. However, if you have someone who ALWAYS wears a properly fitted N95 (clean shaven etc), then they're probably much less likely to contract covid in the first place and thus less likely to infect others and so possibly a better masking participant than the person with only a surgical mask or cloth covering.
I just bought a  50 pack disposable masks in Walgreens and when I was opening them up it says easy to breathe through on box , i billion of these pieces of garbage in the oceans too , too many people getting rich to stop anytime soon

[/b]I'd recommend for you those masks you can't breathe through. Wear them for an hour or 2 and you'll be well protected from Covid. Don't mention it.

This is what I'm referring to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on December 10, 2021, 09:50:44 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 10, 2021, 09:22:04 AM
Quote from: Rudi on December 10, 2021, 09:10:35 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 10, 2021, 08:41:14 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2021, 02:18:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2021, 01:30:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 07:51:16 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 06:43:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.

Most surgical masks or covid-type face coverings are useless to protect you from something like paint vapours and aerosols. They don't form a seal, nor are they necessarily made from tested or appropriate filtering material (you need activated carbon/charcoal or similar for the vapours but a different filtering material for the aerosols/droplets). Surgical masks might stop a few large droplets getting through I guess, but that's not what they're designed for. They're designed to protect the people around the person wearing it, traditionally the patient being treated by the surgeon or other health practitioner so that the patient doesn't get infected by anything the health practitioner is exhaling.

When it comes to covid, its the same thing. A form of source control to lower the chances of the wearer infecting others.

Of course, you can add to that for your own benefit by wearing something like an N95 respirator instead of a surgical or cloth mask. A proper respirator will also offer the wearer some level of protection (assuming its worn correctly, clean-shaven etc. so that it forms a seal).

I've seen debates about N95s with exhalation valves. The issue being that the exhalation valve allows unhindered release of exhaled air and thus defeats the purpose of the whole masking exercise when it comes to covid. Which is true for the most part. However, if you have someone who ALWAYS wears a properly fitted N95 (clean shaven etc), then they're probably much less likely to contract covid in the first place and thus less likely to infect others and so possibly a better masking participant than the person with only a surgical mask or cloth covering.
I just bought a  50 pack disposable masks in Walgreens and when I was opening them up it says easy to breathe through on box , i billion of these pieces of garbage in the oceans too , too many people getting rich to stop anytime soon

I'd recommend for you those masks you can't breathe through. Wear them for an hour or 2 and you'll be well protected from Covid. Don't mention it.
when did you get so radicalized your hoping people suffocate themselves, another lovely liberal

So suffocation is the latest buzzword from the fever swamps, is it? Those stats must be through the stratosphere then so over the past 18 months with all the people masking.
did you read what he said ?

It was clearly a joke you f**king snowflake.

Did the joke make you laugh or cause you amusement? By definition thats what a joke is meant to do, i suppose its subjective. Definitely didn't make me laugh, thought it was a daft thing to say to be honest. Liberals are a rare breed.

Not shocked, I would say very little does.

[/b]Being anti-everything and spending all your life moaning about it has to be a joyless existence.

I agree with that statement & I hope you're not referring to me. The only thing I moan about or am anti is abortion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 10, 2021, 09:52:13 AM
Quote from: Rudi on December 10, 2021, 09:38:46 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 10, 2021, 09:11:27 AM
Are people who wear masks the new liberals? When and how did this happen?

100% missing what was said. I wear a mask not an issue. Read what Lenny said, like a good lad.

Ridiculous that you're taking my comment seriously. Gmac was trying to say masks were useless because you could breathe through them easily. I joked that he should try to get ones that you couldn't breathe through. His was a ridiculous comment as what use are masks if you can't breathe through them easily, they're meant to be worn for hours on end. It's typical of the right wing nutcases though to try to turn a bit of humour into an attack on them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on December 10, 2021, 10:00:23 AM
Quote from: lenny on December 10, 2021, 09:52:13 AM
Quote from: Rudi on December 10, 2021, 09:38:46 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 10, 2021, 09:11:27 AM
Are people who wear masks the new liberals? When and how did this happen?

100% missing what was said. I wear a mask not an issue. Read what Lenny said, like a good lad.

Ridiculous that you're taking my comment seriously. Gmac was trying to say masks were useless because you could breathe through them easily. I joked that he should try to get ones that you couldn't breathe through. His was a ridiculous comment as what use are masks if you can't breathe through them easily, they're meant to be worn for hours on end. It's typical of the right wing nutcases though to try to turn a bit of humour into an attack on them.

My politics is right of center, I have some opinions aligned with people who are center or center left. Don't know how you can label me a right wing nutcase. The thing I am most annoyed with is Padraig & Tommy who come across as decent skins mis-interpreting what I said. That really pisses me off.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 10, 2021, 10:12:11 AM
Quote from: Rudi on December 10, 2021, 09:41:54 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 10, 2021, 09:15:23 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 10, 2021, 09:11:27 AM
Are people who wear masks the new liberals? When and how did this happen?

and despite a majority wearing masks and getting vaccinated and boosters they are a "rare breed"... sure who can argue with logical like that. .

Bit surprised with you Padraig. Thats not what I'm saying. Read what Lenny said regarding masks. I have 100% no problem with wearing a mask. I have no problem with people taking vaccines either.

from the exchange Gmac called Lenny Liberal..  you also referred to liberals... hence my remarks... Lenny can clarify if it was a joke or out of frustration  or why he/she posted why he/she did.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on December 10, 2021, 10:47:18 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 10, 2021, 10:12:11 AM
Quote from: Rudi on December 10, 2021, 09:41:54 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 10, 2021, 09:15:23 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 10, 2021, 09:11:27 AM
Are people who wear masks the new liberals? When and how did this happen?

and despite a majority wearing masks and getting vaccinated and boosters they are a "rare breed"... sure who can argue with logical like that. .

Bit surprised with you Padraig. Thats not what I'm saying. Read what Lenny said regarding masks. I have 100% no problem with wearing a mask. I have no problem with people taking vaccines either.

from the exchange Gmac called Lenny Liberal..  you also referred to liberals... hence my remarks... Lenny can clarify if it was a joke or out of frustration  or why he/she posted why he/she did.

Not much of a reply Padraig, you directly quoted me above & took my initial comments out of context, making me out to be some class of eggit in saying "sure how can you argue with logic like that", when I clearly made reference to Lennys distasteful "joke". Mind your manners Padraig.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 10, 2021, 10:52:44 AM
Quote from: Rudi on December 10, 2021, 10:00:23 AM
Quote from: lenny on December 10, 2021, 09:52:13 AM
Quote from: Rudi on December 10, 2021, 09:38:46 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 10, 2021, 09:11:27 AM
Are people who wear masks the new liberals? When and how did this happen?

100% missing what was said. I wear a mask not an issue. Read what Lenny said, like a good lad.

Ridiculous that you're taking my comment seriously. Gmac was trying to say masks were useless because you could breathe through them easily. I joked that he should try to get ones that you couldn't breathe through. His was a ridiculous comment as what use are masks if you can't breathe through them easily, they're meant to be worn for hours on end. It's typical of the right wing nutcases though to try to turn a bit of humour into an attack on them.

My politics is right of center, I have some opinions aligned with people who are center or center left. Don't know how you can label me a right wing nutcase. The thing I am most annoyed with is Padraig & Tommy who come across as decent skins mis-interpreting what I said. That really pisses me off.

Tbh it was more gmac's comment yours and it just happened to be after yours. Note I never made any comment on your views on vaccines. I don't know them and tbh don't care if people are suspicious of vaccines unless they are for bat shit crazy reasons which when the surface was scratched for a few here turned into batshit crazy reasons.

I still don't understand your comment tbh. Who are the liberals you are referring? Is Lenny the liberal? Or do you just mean liberals in general?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 10, 2021, 11:03:46 AM
Quote from: Rudi on December 10, 2021, 10:47:18 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 10, 2021, 10:12:11 AM
Quote from: Rudi on December 10, 2021, 09:41:54 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 10, 2021, 09:15:23 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 10, 2021, 09:11:27 AM
Are people who wear masks the new liberals? When and how did this happen?

and despite a majority wearing masks and getting vaccinated and boosters they are a "rare breed"... sure who can argue with logical like that. .

Bit surprised with you Padraig. Thats not what I'm saying. Read what Lenny said regarding masks. I have 100% no problem with wearing a mask. I have no problem with people taking vaccines either.

from the exchange Gmac called Lenny Liberal..  you also referred to liberals... hence my remarks... Lenny can clarify if it was a joke or out of frustration  or why he/she posted why he/she did.

Not much of a reply Padraig, you directly quoted me above & took my initial comments out of context, making me out to be some class of eggit in saying "sure how can you argue with logic like that", when I clearly made reference to Lennys distasteful "joke". Mind your manners Padraig.

how did I take them out of context... gmac called lenny a Liberal..  you commented on lenny post and ended with "liberals are a "rare breed".  I don't know how else anyone could take your comment other than people who have similar opinions on masks and vaccs to lenny are Liberal and are a rare breed.

The issue appears to me to be your articulation but I'm open to it could be my interpretation also....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2021, 11:10:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2021, 02:18:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2021, 01:30:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 07:51:16 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 06:43:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.

Most surgical masks or covid-type face coverings are useless to protect you from something like paint vapours and aerosols. They don't form a seal, nor are they necessarily made from tested or appropriate filtering material (you need activated carbon/charcoal or similar for the vapours but a different filtering material for the aerosols/droplets). Surgical masks might stop a few large droplets getting through I guess, but that's not what they're designed for. They're designed to protect the people around the person wearing it, traditionally the patient being treated by the surgeon or other health practitioner so that the patient doesn't get infected by anything the health practitioner is exhaling.

When it comes to covid, its the same thing. A form of source control to lower the chances of the wearer infecting others.

Of course, you can add to that for your own benefit by wearing something like an N95 respirator instead of a surgical or cloth mask. A proper respirator will also offer the wearer some level of protection (assuming its worn correctly, clean-shaven etc. so that it forms a seal).

I've seen debates about N95s with exhalation valves. The issue being that the exhalation valve allows unhindered release of exhaled air and thus defeats the purpose of the whole masking exercise when it comes to covid. Which is true for the most part. However, if you have someone who ALWAYS wears a properly fitted N95 (clean shaven etc), then they're probably much less likely to contract covid in the first place and thus less likely to infect others and so possibly a better masking participant than the person with only a surgical mask or cloth covering.
I just bought a  50 pack disposable masks in Walgreens and when I was opening them up it says easy to breathe through on box , i billion of these pieces of garbage in the oceans too , too many people getting rich to stop anytime soon

I'd recommend for you those masks you can't breathe through. Wear them for an hour or 2 and you'll be well protected from Covid. Don't mention it.
when did you get so radicalized your hoping people suffocate themselves, another lovely liberal

So suffocation is the latest buzzword from the fever swamps, is it? Those stats must be through the stratosphere then so over the past 18 months with all the people masking.
did you read what he said ?

I missed that actually.

Now that I have, it was obviously a joke.

My bad with respect to misinterpreting your comment, but take a f**king joke man.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 10, 2021, 11:30:08 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2021, 11:10:26 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 10, 2021, 02:18:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 10, 2021, 01:30:29 AM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 07:51:16 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 09, 2021, 07:07:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 09, 2021, 06:43:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 07, 2021, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 06, 2021, 10:43:27 PM
I wear a mask and all but unsure of the benefit of it. I would do some paint spraying on and off, minor things spraying. And u have to wear certain level of mask due to paint particles in the air. And particles from coughing etc are smaller again. Am not sure of the real scientific fact with basic masks as u def not spray paint with them.

Most surgical masks or covid-type face coverings are useless to protect you from something like paint vapours and aerosols. They don't form a seal, nor are they necessarily made from tested or appropriate filtering material (you need activated carbon/charcoal or similar for the vapours but a different filtering material for the aerosols/droplets). Surgical masks might stop a few large droplets getting through I guess, but that's not what they're designed for. They're designed to protect the people around the person wearing it, traditionally the patient being treated by the surgeon or other health practitioner so that the patient doesn't get infected by anything the health practitioner is exhaling.

When it comes to covid, its the same thing. A form of source control to lower the chances of the wearer infecting others.

Of course, you can add to that for your own benefit by wearing something like an N95 respirator instead of a surgical or cloth mask. A proper respirator will also offer the wearer some level of protection (assuming its worn correctly, clean-shaven etc. so that it forms a seal).

I've seen debates about N95s with exhalation valves. The issue being that the exhalation valve allows unhindered release of exhaled air and thus defeats the purpose of the whole masking exercise when it comes to covid. Which is true for the most part. However, if you have someone who ALWAYS wears a properly fitted N95 (clean shaven etc), then they're probably much less likely to contract covid in the first place and thus less likely to infect others and so possibly a better masking participant than the person with only a surgical mask or cloth covering.
I just bought a  50 pack disposable masks in Walgreens and when I was opening them up it says easy to breathe through on box , i billion of these pieces of garbage in the oceans too , too many people getting rich to stop anytime soon

I'd recommend for you those masks you can't breathe through. Wear them for an hour or 2 and you'll be well protected from Covid. Don't mention it.
when did you get so radicalized your hoping people suffocate themselves, another lovely liberal

So suffocation is the latest buzzword from the fever swamps, is it? Those stats must be through the stratosphere then so over the past 18 months with all the people masking.
did you read what he said ?

I missed that actually.

Now that I have, it was obviously a joke.

My bad with respect to misinterpreting your comment, but take a f**king joke man.

Exactly. It's one of the most ridiculous comments I've read on here - Gmac ridiculing masks because they're easy to breathe though. That's the whole point of them if we're going to be wearing them for long periods. I was being sarcastic at a ridiculously stupid comment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on December 10, 2021, 12:36:57 PM
I know it's been said many times, but those on the far right are genuinely the biggest shrieking, whinging, moaners of the lot.

And it's been that way throughout history with the upper classes and aristocracy

The same people that tell folks to 'man up and get on with it' would be mortally offended if someone didn't curtsy to them properly
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 10, 2021, 07:26:59 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/grandmother-jailed-for-failing-to-wear-mask-tells-court-she-s-not-sure-if-covid-exists-1.4752239
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 10, 2021, 07:46:41 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 10, 2021, 12:36:57 PM
I know it's been said many times, but those on the far right are genuinely the biggest shrieking, whinging, moaners of the lot.

And it's been that way throughout history with the upper classes and aristocracy

The same people that tell folks to 'man up and get on with it' would be mortally offended if someone didn't curtsy to them properly
someone with a different opinion on masks or who doesn't believe covid restrictions like vaccine mandates are good for society are far right now ?
You may need a break from the covid coverage chief.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 10, 2021, 11:28:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 10, 2021, 07:26:59 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/grandmother-jailed-for-failing-to-wear-mask-tells-court-she-s-not-sure-if-covid-exists-1.4752239

Looks like she was given every opportunity to avoid it ending up like this but was determined to be some kind of martyr for a rather pathetic cause.

Or maybe she's not all there as the lawyer seems to be trying to argue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 11, 2021, 12:45:09 AM
Nope just another self entitled person who thinks she abive the law.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 11, 2021, 02:04:55 AM
The Omicron seems to be very transmissible, it is all over the place in Scotland and Denmark already. There is new study that shows that boosters do substantially prevent you getting it, but two AZ shots alone are almost useless.
Even if Omicron leads to less serious illness it will still overflow the hospitals if a load of people get it at the same time.
They need to crank up the boosters if they are to keep things mostly open.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on December 11, 2021, 10:41:58 AM
Is this the account were the second post from the person is talking about how glad the ill person is that they were vaccinated?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 11, 2021, 11:16:01 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 11, 2021, 10:34:15 AM
If ever one person's testimony demonstrates how pointless vaccine mandates will be this is it

https://twitter.com/vicderbyshire/status/1469354766560026624?s=21 (https://twitter.com/vicderbyshire/status/1469354766560026624?s=21)

Forget peer reviewed reports and data. Twitter is where it's at.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 11, 2021, 11:17:37 AM
Is Karen on Facebook redundant? :'(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 11, 2021, 11:50:59 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 11, 2021, 11:40:50 AM
Go ahead lets hear the brightest minds on here  justify vaccine passports knowing that vaccinated people pass covid. I gave one example of how one vaccinated person passed the virus unto a group they were out with. A mirco snap shot of the reality. Another stark fact of 92% vaccinated in the south and still covid cases very high further evidence of the vaccinated spreading the virus. The remaining 8% not vaccinated, it's reasonable to suggest at 50% have had covid and have tgeir own natural protection. Btw at a recent case in, can't quite recall, is it Belgium (not sure but i will check the country again) Covid passports were judged illegal in a court. The sad truth is if you support mandates you have no genuine appreciation of how a virus spreads. Passports will not stop, stall nor make an ounce of difference

If people are vaccinated they're much less likely to get sick enough to require hospital treatment and are fairly likely to avoid any kind of symptoms at all. Vaccine passports incentivise people to get their jabs. That has been proven across the world. Many more young people will get the vaccine if they think they need it for travel or their social life. Vaccine passports will make a big difference in preventing our hospitals and health service from being overwhelmed by incentivising people to take the sensible option.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 11, 2021, 12:23:53 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 11, 2021, 11:56:24 AM
You are not getting it. 92% in the south vaccinated, still passports and they are not stopping the spread. I accept the obvious in that it can reduce, not prevent, but reduce ICU admissions.

Incentives is an interesting use of a word that actually restrict peoples freedoms

No, you're not getting it. They are slowing the spread and vastly reducing the numbers who would otherwise be in hospital. That's what it's about. These decisions are being made for the good of society at large. The vast majority of society are buying into it and trying to protect each other.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on December 11, 2021, 12:38:36 PM
I think this is worth a listen if only to test your beliefs on this whole topic and see if you can steelman those that don't share your position. We're all susceptible to confirmation bias so it's important to put our beliefs to the test to see how they hold up.

Covid: The Path not Taken - DarkHorse Podcast with Dr. Peter McCullough

https://youtu.be/-zg1j7Zquoc (https://youtu.be/-zg1j7Zquoc)

Peter McCullough is the most peer reviewed, highly published cardiologist in America. He came out early on & spoke to Congress in regards to early treatment verses just sending people home until they couldn't breathe & needed ventilated. He was treating with off lable drugs like zinc, zithromax, vitamin iv's, hydroxichloriquin, monoclonal antibodies, a nebulized steriod etc. He felt that drs needed to treat right away to support the recovery instead of waiting like Fauci/CDC mandated. He has been excoriated for believing in early treatment. One has to wonder why early treatment protocols at home have never been attempted  :-\


Timestamps:
00:00 Introductions
01:42 Doctors as scientists
05:36 How dangerous is COVID and risk stratification
07:45 Vaccinating children and catching COVID twice
14:30 What could have been different?
15:31 Deaths from v and mandates
24:06 Non fatal reactions
28:04 Myocarditis in young patients
36:10 Why are we vaccinating children?
39:47 Nuremberg ethics, Helsinki, Tuskegee
44:45 Treating COVID
52:10 Inverse of the right thing to do
01:03:58 No unique research protocol
01:07:50 Paper based on VAERS data pulled
01:13:06 Wrap up

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 11, 2021, 01:02:58 PM
This dude?

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/vaccines-are-a-safer-alternative-for-acquiring-immunity-compared-to-natural-infection-and-covid-19-survivors-benefit-from-getting-vaccinated-contrary-to-claims-by-peter-mccullough/

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 11, 2021, 01:18:37 PM
What qualifies as a death from the vaccine? Is there a universal or standard way of recording this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 11, 2021, 02:09:58 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 11, 2021, 02:04:56 PM
Skull, I have been following this guy for quite a while. Your wasting your time with some of the posters on here.  Actually had a conversation with a friend who is a GP, sent a video link to him as well. I was shocked at his response to one of the top men in the world. My first thoughts how much r getting paid per vaccine injection. Follow the money

So the governments want their economies to collapse to make money for pharmaceutical companies?;
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 11, 2021, 02:12:15 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 11, 2021, 02:04:56 PM
Skull, I have been following this guy for quite a while. Your wasting your time with some of the posters on here.  Actually had a conversation with a friend who is a GP, sent a video link to him as well. I was shocked at his response to one of the top men in the world. My first thoughts how much r getting paid per vaccine injection. Follow the money

You think gps get money for people getting the vaccine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 11, 2021, 02:15:03 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 11, 2021, 02:04:56 PM
Skull, I have been following this guy for quite a while. Your wasting your time with some of the posters on here.  Actually had a conversation with a friend who is a GP, sent a video link to him as well. I was shocked at his response to one of the top men in the world. My first thoughts how much r getting paid per vaccine injection. Follow the money

What about all the other "top men in the world"?

Are YOU a medical doctor?

I'm sure your friend, the GP, was impressed with your education attempts.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 11, 2021, 02:19:02 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 11, 2021, 02:04:56 PM
Skull, I have been following this guy for quite a while. Your wasting your time with some of the posters on here.  Actually had a conversation with a friend who is a GP, sent a video link to him as well. I was shocked at his response to one of the top men in the world. My first thoughts how much r getting paid per vaccine injection. Follow the money

Your friend is probably sick of morons such as yourself looking at or sending him these videos thinking that they are having a conversation with their peer ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 11, 2021, 02:39:28 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 11, 2021, 02:33:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 11, 2021, 02:12:15 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 11, 2021, 02:04:56 PM
Skull, I have been following this guy for quite a while. Your wasting your time with some of the posters on here.  Actually had a conversation with a friend who is a GP, sent a video link to him as well. I was shocked at his response to one of the top men in the world. My first thoughts how much r getting paid per vaccine injection. Follow the money

You think gps get money for people getting the vaccine?

You didn't know they get paid for administering the injection?

They haven't been doing much lately, they might as well do something.

So do big pharmaceutical companies run the world wide governments?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 11, 2021, 02:57:56 PM
So it's a bribe then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 11, 2021, 04:43:45 PM
Why are some still engaging with this Tyrone clown? On his 4th / 5th account on this thread at this stage. A screw is loose. He DOESN'T CARE what you have to say.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 11, 2021, 04:53:21 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 11, 2021, 04:43:45 PM
Why are some still engaging with this Tyrone clown? On his 4th / 5th account on this thread at this stage. A screw is loose. He DOESN'T CARE what you have to say.
Im guessing his 7th attempt at this board
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 11, 2021, 05:01:35 PM
Didn't realize that. Haven't been keeping track!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 11, 2021, 05:49:30 PM
Him and his GP "mate" who's taking a bung ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 11, 2021, 05:58:08 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 11, 2021, 05:49:30 PM
Him and his GP "mate" who's taking a bung ;D

And his mate that works as a chemist
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 11, 2021, 06:18:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 11, 2021, 05:58:08 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 11, 2021, 05:49:30 PM
Him and his GP "mate" who's taking a bung ;D

And his mate that works as a chemist
Chemical Engineer it was. He had the case all sewn up too. Follow the money MR. Are Big Pharma being controlled by a shadowy organisation like the Bilderberg Group or is it Big Pharma pulling the strings to collapse the world economy so they can control us and fill us full of expensive vaccines? I can never remember who is in charge.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 11, 2021, 07:22:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 11, 2021, 02:39:28 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 11, 2021, 02:33:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 11, 2021, 02:12:15 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 11, 2021, 02:04:56 PM
Skull, I have been following this guy for quite a while. Your wasting your time with some of the posters on here.  Actually had a conversation with a friend who is a GP, sent a video link to him as well. I was shocked at his response to one of the top men in the world. My first thoughts how much r getting paid per vaccine injection. Follow the money

You think gps get money for people getting the vaccine?

You didn't know they get paid for administering the injection?

They haven't been doing much lately, they might as well do something.

So do big pharmaceutical companies run the world wide governments?

Not true, not true at all. Each GP deals with approximately 30 triage patients per day, maybe sees about 5 of those face to face. They assess bloods from the day before, do maybe 2 or 3 house calls each, smear clinics, baby clinics, INR clinics, administer vaccines maybe 2 or 3 days a week, deal with the mountain of coding from hospital letters, run disease specific clinics (T2DM, asthma, COPD etc)
GPs never shut down for a day during covid. Dentists and hospital clinics stopped for months and still run on a much reduced capacity.

This myth that behind GP doors everyone is sitting on their hole is absolute nonsense. You struggle to get through on the phone because of the incredible demand, not because nothing is going on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 11, 2021, 07:39:22 PM
When someone gets barred on here, can they not keep note of ip address for future barring. Once barred that should be it, men coming bck under different user names have plagued this board. Time Admin noted ip addresses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 11, 2021, 07:47:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 11, 2021, 07:22:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 11, 2021, 02:39:28 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 11, 2021, 02:33:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 11, 2021, 02:12:15 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 11, 2021, 02:04:56 PM
Skull, I have been following this guy for quite a while. Your wasting your time with some of the posters on here.  Actually had a conversation with a friend who is a GP, sent a video link to him as well. I was shocked at his response to one of the top men in the world. My first thoughts how much r getting paid per vaccine injection. Follow the money

You think gps get money for people getting the vaccine?

You didn't know they get paid for administering the injection?

They haven't been doing much lately, they might as well do something.

So do big pharmaceutical companies run the world wide governments?

Not true, not true at all. Each GP deals with approximately 30 triage patients per day, maybe sees about 5 of those face to face. They assess bloods from the day before, do maybe 2 or 3 house calls each, smear clinics, baby clinics, INR clinics, administer vaccines maybe 2 or 3 days a week, deal with the mountain of coding from hospital letters, run disease specific clinics (T2DM, asthma, COPD etc)
GPs never shut down for a day during covid. Dentists and hospital clinics stopped for months and still run on a much reduced capacity.

This myth that behind GP doors everyone is sitting on their hole is absolute nonsense. You struggle to get through on the phone because of the incredible demand, not because nothing is going on.

Couldn't agree more. Another bogey man created by the media
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 11, 2021, 08:05:32 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 11, 2021, 07:39:22 PM
When someone gets barred on here, can they not keep note of ip address for future barring. Once barred that should be it, men coming bck under different user names have plagued this board. Time Admin noted ip addresses.

Your IP number changes in most cases if you reboot the router. It isn't quite as easy as that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on December 12, 2021, 12:21:59 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 11, 2021, 07:22:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 11, 2021, 02:39:28 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 11, 2021, 02:33:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 11, 2021, 02:12:15 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 11, 2021, 02:04:56 PM
Skull, I have been following this guy for quite a while. Your wasting your time with some of the posters on here.  Actually had a conversation with a friend who is a GP, sent a video link to him as well. I was shocked at his response to one of the top men in the world. My first thoughts how much r getting paid per vaccine injection. Follow the money

You think gps get money for people getting the vaccine?

You didn't know they get paid for administering the injection?

They haven't been doing much lately, they might as well do something.

So do big pharmaceutical companies run the world wide governments?

Not true, not true at all. Each GP deals with approximately 30 triage patients per day, maybe sees about 5 of those face to face. They assess bloods from the day before, do maybe 2 or 3 house calls each, smear clinics, baby clinics, INR clinics, administer vaccines maybe 2 or 3 days a week, deal with the mountain of coding from hospital letters, run disease specific clinics (T2DM, asthma, COPD etc)
GPs never shut down for a day during covid. Dentists and hospital clinics stopped for months and still run on a much reduced capacity.

This myth that behind GP doors everyone is sitting on their hole is absolute nonsense. You struggle to get through on the phone because of the incredible demand, not because nothing is going on.

How many patients would they have normally seen face to face  pre-covid?
    I would definitely say there is a reduced patient throughput through GP surgeries. The local GP surgery closed at the March/April 2020 and never reopened. Some of the doctors joined a larger practice in a neighbouring town and I don't think the original surgery will reopen.
     I'd agree with you that they are not sitting on their hole, which is another myth invented by the media as they love the blame game.
       As for dentists, well at the beginning they were instructed by the health board to avoid face to face treatment of patients and basically not to carry out any procedures that involved aerosols which is most things. They were effectively closed down and really it was  the end of July 2020 before they even begin treating people(they had guidance on ppe and access to ppe equipment by this stage). The out of hours cover was removed in April 2020 so many dentists have to provide their own out of hours cover. That means for some smaller practices 7 days a week 365 days a year. Of course not all the same across the board and some definitely have reduced working hours. I'd say in many ways similar to GP position.
       Everybody likes to blame somebody else, but truthfully the nhs has been allowed to crumble under successive UK governments and its now on a drive to privatisation under Boris and Co. It was badly broken long before Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 12, 2021, 03:39:29 PM
In Germany, a 12-year-old child dies two days after receiving the second dose of Pfizer vaccine. The autopsy confirms that the death was caused by the vaccine.

https://twitter.com/NeBirgitta/status/1468954864231202817 (https://twitter.com/NeBirgitta/status/1468954864231202817)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on December 12, 2021, 04:49:15 PM
Also in Germany    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59629738
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 12, 2021, 05:15:22 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 12, 2021, 03:39:29 PM
In Germany, a 12-year-old child dies two days after receiving the second dose of Pfizer vaccine. The autopsy confirms that the death was caused by the vaccine.

https://twitter.com/NeBirgitta/status/1468954864231202817 (https://twitter.com/NeBirgitta/status/1468954864231202817)

"the child had a previous illness and had been suffering from a serious heart and vascular disease for a long time."

https://news.in-24.com/news/257400.html

So they'd likely have been fatally sick if they'd caught the virus. In which case, what are the options?

- allow to acquire "naturally", when the expectation would be it'd be fatal?
- allow to get vaccine, in hope more benign form* gives their immune system a help.


*not strictly true for mRNA, but close enough for this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 12, 2021, 06:01:02 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 12, 2021, 05:15:22 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 12, 2021, 03:39:29 PM
In Germany, a 12-year-old child dies two days after receiving the second dose of Pfizer vaccine. The autopsy confirms that the death was caused by the vaccine.

https://twitter.com/NeBirgitta/status/1468954864231202817 (https://twitter.com/NeBirgitta/status/1468954864231202817)

"the child had a previous illness and had been suffering from a serious heart and vascular disease for a long time."

https://news.in-24.com/news/257400.html

So they'd likely have been fatally sick if they'd caught the virus. In which case, what are the options?

- allow to acquire "naturally", when the expectation would be it'd be fatal?
- allow to get vaccine, in hope more benign form* gives their immune system a help.


*not strictly true for mRNA, but close enough for this.

And with this new infectious variant, getting the virus eventually is pretty much a certainty.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on December 12, 2021, 06:10:54 PM
Some more useful information regarding Israel doctors experience treating Vitamin D (plus K2) and Zinc on his patients who caught covid. Have been following this protocol for over a year myself. We're all in this together folks. Don't let the fearmongering win. Other option do exist ... this evidence regarding Vitamin D has been flying around for well over 18 months .... yet zero western government strategies have harnessed improving immune systems as part of the effort to reduce pressure on health care resources. That fact alone does make me wonder why when its such an easy win.

Vitamin D in Israel

https://youtu.be/w9h-XQm2qEY (https://youtu.be/w9h-XQm2qEY)

Vitamin D in Israel. This video is for educational purposes only and must not replace advice from your own health care provider. Always consult your own doctor before taking any medication or supplements. Dr Michael Cohen discusses the importance of Vitamin D and zinc for the optimisation of the immune system. Vitamin K2 is also used to distribute calcium to the correct tissues. Thankyou Dr Cohen for this excellent explanation of preventing and minimising infection by enabling the amazing natural immune response.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 12, 2021, 06:24:33 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 12, 2021, 12:21:59 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 11, 2021, 07:22:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 11, 2021, 02:39:28 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 11, 2021, 02:33:02 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 11, 2021, 02:12:15 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 11, 2021, 02:04:56 PM
Skull, I have been following this guy for quite a while. Your wasting your time with some of the posters on here.  Actually had a conversation with a friend who is a GP, sent a video link to him as well. I was shocked at his response to one of the top men in the world. My first thoughts how much r getting paid per vaccine injection. Follow the money

You think gps get money for people getting the vaccine?

You didn't know they get paid for administering the injection?

They haven't been doing much lately, they might as well do something.

So do big pharmaceutical companies run the world wide governments?

Not true, not true at all. Each GP deals with approximately 30 triage patients per day, maybe sees about 5 of those face to face. They assess bloods from the day before, do maybe 2 or 3 house calls each, smear clinics, baby clinics, INR clinics, administer vaccines maybe 2 or 3 days a week, deal with the mountain of coding from hospital letters, run disease specific clinics (T2DM, asthma, COPD etc)
GPs never shut down for a day during covid. Dentists and hospital clinics stopped for months and still run on a much reduced capacity.

This myth that behind GP doors everyone is sitting on their hole is absolute nonsense. You struggle to get through on the phone because of the incredible demand, not because nothing is going on.

How many patients would they have normally seen face to face  pre-covid?
    I would definitely say there is a reduced patient throughput through GP surgeries. The local GP surgery closed at the March/April 2020 and never reopened. Some of the doctors joined a larger practice in a neighbouring town and I don't think the original surgery will reopen.
     I'd agree with you that they are not sitting on their hole, which is another myth invented by the media as they love the blame game.
       As for dentists, well at the beginning they were instructed by the health board to avoid face to face treatment of patients and basically not to carry out any procedures that involved aerosols which is most things. They were effectively closed down and really it was  the end of July 2020 before they even begin treating people(they had guidance on ppe and access to ppe equipment by this stage). The out of hours cover was removed in April 2020 so many dentists have to provide their own out of hours cover. That means for some smaller practices 7 days a week 365 days a year. Of course not all the same across the board and some definitely have reduced working hours. I'd say in many ways similar to GP position.
       Everybody likes to blame somebody else, but truthfully the nhs has been allowed to crumble under successive UK governments and its now on a drive to privatisation under Boris and Co. It was badly broken long before Covid.

They might have seen 20 or 30 face to face pre covid. Tbh I can't see it changing to the old system because they are able to get through more patients in a day now than they would have beforehand, albeit mostly remotely.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on December 12, 2021, 06:32:49 PM
Le Monde reported that vaccines are approx  85% effective against the current variant and that cases are a mixture of the 15% and the unvaccinated gobshites who have a mortality rate 7 times that of vaccinated. That is the price of "freedom"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 12, 2021, 07:22:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 12, 2021, 06:32:49 PM
Le Monde reported that vaccines are approx  85% effective against the current variant and that cases are a mixture of the 15% and the unvaccinated gobshites who have a mortality rate 7 times that of vaccinated. That is the price of "freedom"

Are the unvaxxed under 11's part of the Gobshite Cathegory? What is their Mortality Rate?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 12, 2021, 07:24:19 PM
Stop trying to use a poor child's death to further your position  :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 12, 2021, 07:26:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 12, 2021, 07:24:19 PM
Stop trying to use a poor child's death to further your position  :(

And what position would that be?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 12, 2021, 07:28:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 12, 2021, 07:24:19 PM
Stop trying to use a poor child's death to further your position  :(

Will I ignore such deaths the next time around? Would that suit you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 12, 2021, 07:30:23 PM
No one dying particularly suits me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 12, 2021, 08:06:49 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 12, 2021, 07:31:28 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 12, 2021, 06:10:54 PM
Some more useful information regarding Israel doctors experience treating Vitamin D (plus K2) and Zinc on his patients who caught covid. Have been following this protocol for over a year myself. We're all in this together folks. Don't let the fearmongering win. Other option do exist ... this evidence regarding Vitamin D has been flying around for well over 18 months .... yet zero western government strategies have harnessed improving immune systems as part of the effort to reduce pressure on health care resources. That fact alone does make me wonder why when its such an easy win.

Vitamin D in Israel


https://youtu.be/w9h-XQm2qEY (https://youtu.be/w9h-XQm2qEY)

Vitamin D in Israel. This video is for educational purposes only and must not replace advice from your own health care provider. Always consult your own doctor before taking any medication or supplements. Dr Michael Cohen discusses the importance of Vitamin D and zinc for the optimisation of the immune system. Vitamin K2 is also used to distribute calcium to the correct tissues. Thankyou Dr Cohen for this excellent explanation of preventing and minimising infection by enabling the amazing natural immune response.

Me to skull
4000 mg vit D, along with zinc


Hopefully they'll help you a bit if you get infected. I'd strongly advise you to get vaccinated also though especially with a tidal wave of omicron coming.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on December 12, 2021, 08:51:32 PM
Lads can anyone share the link to booking the booster. I tried the website couple of times in last few days and wasn't eligible
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on December 12, 2021, 08:58:51 PM
Apropos of nothing, globally, the supplement industry is estimated to be worth $150 billion per annum (https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/dietary-supplements-market), as of 2021.

Is 'Big Vitamin' a thing?

Or maybe the boys with the youtube videos are just really into zinc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 12, 2021, 09:05:18 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 12, 2021, 08:57:20 PM
The whole booster thing looks like your gonna need it every three months for any effectiveness. It seems after three months you might as well be unvaccinated.

This is not a characteristic of the vaccines but of Coronaviruses. If you get infected then it is not worth much after a few months either, which is why we get colds again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on December 12, 2021, 09:08:10 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on December 12, 2021, 08:51:32 PM
Lads can anyone share the link to booking the booster. I tried the website couple of times in last few days and wasn't eligible

Just walk in, the IT is behind the news that has come out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2021, 09:10:51 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 12, 2021, 08:55:35 PM
No thanks. As I have said, not enough data shared to reassure me. A few years when a rounded review of ALL THE DATA, no problem then. Until then I'll social distance, santise the hands and wear the mask ( although evidence is 50/50 on it). I'm not over weight, nor in the older group or have any underlying health issues. My risk is very very minimal.

You're risk is minimal if you are what you say, no one knows you, you could be crackpot crazy also. Hopefully you'll socially distance from others, based on your many post as different people that shouldn't be difficult.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on December 12, 2021, 09:14:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 12, 2021, 09:10:51 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 12, 2021, 08:55:35 PM
No thanks. As I have said, not enough data shared to reassure me. A few years when a rounded review of ALL THE DATA, no problem then. Until then I'll social distance, santise the hands and wear the mask ( although evidence is 50/50 on it). I'm not over weight, nor in the older group or have any underlying health issues. My risk is very very minimal.

You're risk is minimal if you are what you say, no one knows you, you could be crackpot crazy also. Hopefully you'll socially distance from others, based on your many post as different people that shouldn't be difficult.

Lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 12, 2021, 09:29:34 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on December 12, 2021, 08:51:32 PM
Lads can anyone share the link to booking the booster. I tried the website couple of times in last few days and wasn't eligible
Walter where you based at?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Walter Cronc on December 12, 2021, 09:42:10 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 12, 2021, 09:29:34 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on December 12, 2021, 08:51:32 PM
Lads can anyone share the link to booking the booster. I tried the website couple of times in last few days and wasn't eligible
Walter where you based at?

Maghera.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 12, 2021, 10:01:30 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on December 12, 2021, 09:42:10 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 12, 2021, 09:29:34 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on December 12, 2021, 08:51:32 PM
Lads can anyone share the link to booking the booster. I tried the website couple of times in last few days and wasn't eligible
Walter where you based at?

Maghera.
If I were you I'd either head for Ballymena where 7 Towers Leisure Centre is the Mass Vax Centre for Northern Trust or ring your local chemist. The missus was offered a booster whilst in the queue at the chemist as so many people aren't turning up for appts and they have to bin the vial if unused.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on December 12, 2021, 10:08:50 PM
Walk in clinics now accepting over 30s with at least 3 months since last vax.
I don't think the booking system is being updated until Wednesday (well that was the case a few days ago) so you still can't book if not over 40 with 6 months since last jab.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 12, 2021, 10:15:22 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 12, 2021, 07:30:23 PM
No one dying particularly suits me.

No one dying suits me as well. That's the ultimate goal no matter what side of the argument you are on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 07:41:44 AM
With all the talk of Omnicron, it seems far less deadly than Delta or is it too early to say?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 13, 2021, 07:58:45 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 07:41:44 AM
With all the talk of Omnicron, it seems far less deadly than Delta or is it too early to say?

Early indications show its milder. Scientists will always gear models for the worst case scenario. They have been doing this for 2 years now! Their brief is not set to worry about Mental illness, Job losses or cultural unrest. Their brief is set to cover their asses and reduced deaths.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: smort on December 13, 2021, 08:07:27 AM
I think their brief is to protect the country. They will produce various models but the worst prediction is the one that gets reported
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 13, 2021, 08:18:50 AM
the TOR for NPHET is at the link below..

https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/691330-national-public-health-emergency-team-covid-19-coronavirus/#terms-of-reference
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 13, 2021, 09:06:00 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 12, 2021, 10:15:22 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 12, 2021, 07:30:23 PM
No one dying particularly suits me.

No one dying suits me as well. That's the ultimate goal no matter what side of the argument you are on.

It's pretty clear now though that this is impossible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 13, 2021, 09:06:55 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 07:41:44 AM
With all the talk of Omnicron, it seems far less deadly than Delta or is it too early to say?

It's too early to say. Almost all affected people in South Africa had been vaccinated or previously infected. There is a theory that's why they had mild symptoms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 09:13:40 AM
Quote from: lenny on December 13, 2021, 09:06:55 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 07:41:44 AM
With all the talk of Omnicron, it seems far less deadly than Delta or is it too early to say?

It's too early to say. Almost all affected people in South Africa had been vaccinated or previously infected. There is a theory that's why they had mild symptoms.
Well the vast vast majority here will be in that category too thankfully.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on December 13, 2021, 09:18:10 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 09:13:40 AM
Quote from: lenny on December 13, 2021, 09:06:55 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 07:41:44 AM
With all the talk of Omnicron, it seems far less deadly than Delta or is it too early to say?

It's too early to say. Almost all affected people in South Africa had been vaccinated or previously infected. There is a theory that's why they had mild symptoms.
Well the vast vast majority here will be in that category too thankfully.

The average age in South Africa is 28 so its possible that this 'could' be a factor in the 'mildness' that's being talked about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 13, 2021, 11:23:38 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 13, 2021, 11:01:43 AM
Dr Doug Corrigan, Ph.D Biochemist & molecular biologist.

A brilliant analogy 😂

https://twitter.com/sciencewdrdoug/status/1470120180873408514?s=12 (https://twitter.com/sciencewdrdoug/status/1470120180873408514?s=12)

Dr Doug...... can you point us to any peer reviewed work of his? I would assume he should some?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 13, 2021, 11:34:01 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 13, 2021, 11:01:43 AM
Dr Doug Corrigan, Ph.D Biochemist & molecular biologist.

A brilliant analogy 😂

https://twitter.com/sciencewdrdoug/status/1470120180873408514?s=12 (https://twitter.com/sciencewdrdoug/status/1470120180873408514?s=12)

This is the guy that "proved" vaccines change your dna.

Except he didn't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 13, 2021, 02:25:36 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 13, 2021, 02:06:43 PM
You all got your booster? Is it over 40s ?

Yes, anyone with an IQ of more than 40.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on December 13, 2021, 02:33:10 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 12, 2021, 07:31:28 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 12, 2021, 06:10:54 PM
Some more useful information regarding Israel doctors experience treating Vitamin D (plus K2) and Zinc on his patients who caught covid. Have been following this protocol for over a year myself. We're all in this together folks. Don't let the fearmongering win. Other option do exist ... this evidence regarding Vitamin D has been flying around for well over 18 months .... yet zero western government strategies have harnessed improving immune systems as part of the effort to reduce pressure on health care resources. That fact alone does make me wonder why when its such an easy win.

Vitamin D in Israel

https://youtu.be/w9h-XQm2qEY (https://youtu.be/w9h-XQm2qEY)

Vitamin D in Israel. This video is for educational purposes only and must not replace advice from your own health care provider. Always consult your own doctor before taking any medication or supplements. Dr Michael Cohen discusses the importance of Vitamin D and zinc for the optimisation of the immune system. Vitamin K2 is also used to distribute calcium to the correct tissues. Thankyou Dr Cohen for this excellent explanation of preventing and minimising infection by enabling the amazing natural immune response.

Me to skull
4000 mg vit D, along with zinc
The video is advocating the supplements in addition to the vaccines.

I find Dr John Campbell very interesting, albeit I've only seen a very small percentage of his videos. One other thing he advocated is no strenuous exercise in the week after getting the vaccine, which I think is very important (albeit only for a small proportion of people, but no way of knowing for sure who those people are, so better to just be cautious and take it easy with exercise for a few days).

But the main thing to remember, as Campbell says "these vaccines are completely brilliant"!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 13, 2021, 02:36:57 PM
Quote from: Hound on December 13, 2021, 02:33:10 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 12, 2021, 07:31:28 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 12, 2021, 06:10:54 PM
Some more useful information regarding Israel doctors experience treating Vitamin D (plus K2) and Zinc on his patients who caught covid. Have been following this protocol for over a year myself. We're all in this together folks. Don't let the fearmongering win. Other option do exist ... this evidence regarding Vitamin D has been flying around for well over 18 months .... yet zero western government strategies have harnessed improving immune systems as part of the effort to reduce pressure on health care resources. That fact alone does make me wonder why when its such an easy win.

Vitamin D in Israel

https://youtu.be/w9h-XQm2qEY (https://youtu.be/w9h-XQm2qEY)

Vitamin D in Israel. This video is for educational purposes only and must not replace advice from your own health care provider. Always consult your own doctor before taking any medication or supplements. Dr Michael Cohen discusses the importance of Vitamin D and zinc for the optimisation of the immune system. Vitamin K2 is also used to distribute calcium to the correct tissues. Thankyou Dr Cohen for this excellent explanation of preventing and minimising infection by enabling the amazing natural immune response.

Me to skull
4000 mg vit D, along with zinc
The video is advocating the supplements in addition to the vaccines.

I find Dr John Campbell very interesting, albeit I've only seen a very small percentage of his videos. One other thing he advocated is no strenuous exercise in the week after getting the vaccine, which I think is very important (albeit only for a small proportion of people, but no way of knowing for sure who those people are, so better to just be cautious and take it easy with exercise for a few days).

But the main thing to remember, as Campbell says "these vaccines are completely brilliant"!

I find him a complete spoofer... I've only seen 2 videos and that's time I'll never get back...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 13, 2021, 03:57:28 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 13, 2021, 03:48:31 PM
There's probably quite a few people on social media deleting their posts from 2020 if they were branding people as conspiracy theorists for warning about vaccine passports.

I'd say there's even more who were deleting posts saying Covid wasn't real and that it was a hoax.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 13, 2021, 04:39:56 PM
Am waiting for Unicron and Galvatron to turn up. Then am getting really worried!! 🤔
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on December 13, 2021, 07:30:06 PM
Last weekend - Got my booster, no big deal.  Used my covid passport in a restaurant, no big deal. Wore my mask in the supermarket, no big deal.  Very happy to play a small part in taking the weight off the nurses and doctors on the frontline.  Truly can't understand why some people can't make the effort.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 13, 2021, 07:45:41 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on December 13, 2021, 07:30:06 PM
Last weekend - Got my booster, no big deal.  Used my covid passport in a restaurant, no big deal. Wore my mask in the supermarket, no big deal.  Very happy to play a small part in taking the weight off the nurses and doctors on the frontline.  Truly can't understand why some people can't make the effort.

You're being oppressed and you don't realize it.

Apparently...

Think there's something in there about sheep as well.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on December 13, 2021, 07:52:29 PM
I wonder how far away we are from lockdown
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 13, 2021, 08:03:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 13, 2021, 07:52:29 PM
I wonder how far away we are from lockdown

Schools in the Republic will be closed earlier than planned on Friday for the Christmas Holidays. Every other restriction will be like putting a Band-Aid on a Puncture. And that includes what is now the nearest thing to a cocktail of Vaccinations which can be from different manufacturers. The newest rule being you can take a booster 3 months from your last shot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 13, 2021, 08:15:00 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 13, 2021, 04:39:56 PM
Am waiting for Unicron and Galvatron to turn up. Then am getting really worried!! 🤔

Reports from Denmark are that the cases of omicron are doubling every 1.8 days which is way, way faster than Delta. What's much worse is that the numbers being hospitalised are also higher than for delta. Even among younger people. Extremely worrying.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dunsilly King on December 13, 2021, 08:17:12 PM
🧐 no surprise 🤷‍♂️

https://brownstone.org/articles/79-research-studies-affirm-naturally-acquired-immunity-to-covid-19-documented-linked-and-quoted/ (https://brownstone.org/articles/79-research-studies-affirm-naturally-acquired-immunity-to-covid-19-documented-linked-and-quoted/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 13, 2021, 08:25:52 PM
The amount of Irish folk reading, listening to siding with the right wing these days is very surprising. They really are making hay (someone on here predicted as much at the start of the pandemic)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on December 13, 2021, 08:26:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 13, 2021, 07:45:41 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on December 13, 2021, 07:30:06 PM
Last weekend - Got my booster, no big deal.  Used my covid passport in a restaurant, no big deal. Wore my mask in the supermarket, no big deal.  Very happy to play a small part in taking the weight off the nurses and doctors on the frontline.  Truly can't understand why some people can't make the effort.

You're being oppressed and you don't realize it.

Apparently...

Think there's something in there about sheep as well.
I don't feel in the least oppressed.  Making all my own decisions based on as much evidence as I can source (excluding the eejits), so no sheep angle either. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 13, 2021, 08:31:47 PM
Quote from: Dunsilly King on December 13, 2021, 08:17:12 PM
🧐 no surprise 🤷‍♂️

https://brownstone.org/articles/79-research-studies-affirm-naturally-acquired-immunity-to-covid-19-documented-linked-and-quoted/ (https://brownstone.org/articles/79-research-studies-affirm-naturally-acquired-immunity-to-covid-19-documented-linked-and-quoted/)

;D ;D ;D ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 13, 2021, 08:40:54 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 13, 2021, 04:39:56 PM
Am waiting for Unicron and Galvatron to turn up. Then am getting really worried!! 🤔


No way man


ALL HAIL MEGATRON!!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 13, 2021, 08:44:02 PM
After most of the country vaccinated, are the hospital admissions and deaths not way down to this time last year.?thr news constantly talks about the amount of people who getting Covid which is to be expected with opening up, but I don't hear as much about the admission / death rate, which seemed to be the 2nd line of every news bulletin last year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 13, 2021, 08:45:41 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 13, 2021, 08:15:00 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 13, 2021, 04:39:56 PM
Am waiting for Unicron and Galvatron to turn up. Then am getting really worried!! 🤔

Reports from Denmark are that the cases of omicron are doubling every 1.8 days which is way, way faster than Delta. What's much worse is that the numbers being hospitalised are also higher than for delta. Even among younger people. Extremely worrying.

It's been a while since I worried about the virus itself! Probably May 2020 was the last time. Working out amongst people all through the pandemic was a God send. Meeting people with so much fear. Day by day being fed a new fear. Anyone losing the fear being loaded by guilt. Anyone losing the guilt being ostracised by Covid pass restrictions. And then just with out and out Blackmail. There is always some new emotion invented around the corner to keep us in our place.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 13, 2021, 08:45:44 PM
On another no, if there was no Covid, Dup. Sinn Fein would Nolan be put if a job with nothing to stir us all up against each other.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 13, 2021, 08:46:08 PM
Quote

https://brownstone.org/articles/79-research-studies-affirm-naturally-acquired-immunity-to-covid-19-documented-linked-and-quoted/ (https://brownstone.org/articles/79-research-studies-affirm-naturally-acquired-immunity-to-covid-19-documented-linked-and-quoted/)


QuoteWe should not force COVID vaccines on anyone when the evidence shows that naturally acquired immunity is equal to or more robust and superior to existing vaccines.

Literally no one, zero, nada, zilch of anyone with a double digit IQ is surprised that recovering from the actual infection will grant you better immunity than recovering from a partially simulated equivalent.

Did Paul Elias Alexander actually power up all 3 of his brain cells before typing that pish?


The evidence clearly and unequivocally shows that acquiring natural immunity comes at a death rate somewhere between 10 and 100 times higher than the vaccine alternative. Possibly even more than 100 times higher as the hospitals would utterly collapse and even otherwise curable cases would die.



Some people are just so f**king retarded they are beyond help.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 13, 2021, 08:47:20 PM
Fear, u guys should be used to it with all the all-Irelands you lose, you have a fear of winning.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 13, 2021, 08:48:21 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 13, 2021, 08:44:02 PM
After most of the country vaccinated, are the hospital admissions and deaths not way down to this time last year.?thr news constantly talks about the amount of people who getting Covid which is to be expected with opening up, but I don't hear as much about the admission / death rate, which seemed to be the 2nd line of every news bulletin last year.

The admission rate is away down relative to the numbers contracting the virus.

Pretty sure the absolute rate was down too as of a couple of weeks ago.

Where we are in a few weeks time unfortunately is once again the concern.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 13, 2021, 08:25:52 PM
The amount of Irish folk reading, listening to siding with the right wing these days is very surprising. They really are making hay (someone on here predicted as much at the start of the pandemic)
Can't blame them with all the other gobshites supporting lockdowns
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 13, 2021, 09:51:34 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 13, 2021, 08:45:41 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 13, 2021, 08:15:00 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 13, 2021, 04:39:56 PM
Am waiting for Unicron and Galvatron to turn up. Then am getting really worried!! 🤔

Reports from Denmark are that the cases of omicron are doubling every 1.8 days which is way, way faster than Delta. What's much worse is that the numbers being hospitalised are also higher than for delta. Even among younger people. Extremely worrying.

It's been a while since I worried about the virus itself! Probably May 2020 was the last time. Working out amongst people all through the pandemic was a God send. Meeting people with so much fear. Day by day being fed a new fear. Anyone losing the fear being loaded by guilt. Anyone losing the guilt being ostracised by Covid pass restrictions. And then just with out and out Blackmail. There is always some new emotion invented around the corner to keep us in our place.

What a load of crap.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 13, 2021, 10:05:23 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 13, 2021, 09:51:34 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 13, 2021, 08:45:41 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 13, 2021, 08:15:00 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 13, 2021, 04:39:56 PM
Am waiting for Unicron and Galvatron to turn up. Then am getting really worried!! 🤔

Reports from Denmark are that the cases of omicron are doubling every 1.8 days which is way, way faster than Delta. What's much worse is that the numbers being hospitalised are also higher than for delta. Even among younger people. Extremely worrying.

It's been a while since I worried about the virus itself! Probably May 2020 was the last time. Working out amongst people all through the pandemic was a God send. Meeting people with so much fear. Day by day being fed a new fear. Anyone losing the fear being loaded by guilt. Anyone losing the guilt being ostracised by Covid pass restrictions. And then just with out and out Blackmail. There is always some new emotion invented around the corner to keep us in our place.

What a load of crap.

From the bunker never got over the teachers getting off.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2021, 10:07:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 13, 2021, 08:25:52 PM
The amount of Irish folk reading, listening to siding with the right wing these days is very surprising. They really are making hay (someone on here predicted as much at the start of the pandemic)
Can't blame them with all the other gobshites supporting lockdowns

I don't know of anyone who supports lockdowns, I'm for taking the vaccine and moving on, but if this new mutation causes more deaths, then some restrictions need to be looked at, more community testing followed by isolating if infected
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on December 13, 2021, 10:37:11 PM
Spoofer John Campbell again

UK, 50% omicron now

https://youtu.be/XzrG3Odgf28 (https://youtu.be/XzrG3Odgf28)

Omicron doesn't care if you're vaccinated or not when it comes to catching it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2021, 11:00:32 PM
None of the variants care, I just don't want to increase my likelihood of having illness when I don't have to or passing it on with a viral load that will possibly cause bigger issues.

Again none of my kids or me or wife have caught it. That's nearly 2 years with it about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 13, 2021, 11:23:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2021, 10:07:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 13, 2021, 08:25:52 PM
The amount of Irish folk reading, listening to siding with the right wing these days is very surprising. They really are making hay (someone on here predicted as much at the start of the pandemic)
Can't blame them with all the other gobshites supporting lockdowns

I don't know of anyone who supports lockdowns, I'm for taking the vaccine and moving on, but if this new mutation causes more deaths, then some restrictions need to be looked at, more community testing followed by isolating if infected
The headcases dont want restrictions or the vaccines when it's clear that we need one or the other. My preference would be that people vax up and we don't need to go in and out of restrictions as they leave terrible uncertainty for business owners and employees, especially around hospitality and retail. I had to use my Covid app last Saturday when out for lunch and not once did I feel like I was being asked for my papers in Nazi Germany.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 13, 2021, 11:57:05 PM
Norway has introduced some restrictions now. Every place will try and give boosters, but it isn't so easy to get everyone jabbed quickly. The Omicron might not be so serious, but it will infect great numbers and some of these will need medical attention.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Substandard on December 14, 2021, 12:28:14 AM
1209 pages since this thread started.  Every now and then I flick back to the first few pages, then skip along to other parts,  to see how it looked at the outset.
I still tune in here every day, and sometimes read links posted, but I'm tired of it all now.  I did the vaccine, will probably get the booster, I do the mask and hand sanitizing if I go into a shop or whatever,  not necessarily because I trust any of it implicitly,  but simply because the likelihood of it maybe helping to make a positive difference outweighs the alternative of ignoring all these things.
I'm tired of it all now, really fed up.  I wish it was done, but wish in one hand and sh*te in the other, and see which fills up first.  I'm public sector, so haven't had to worry about wages, or where my job is headed.  I can't imagine that kind of stress.  I haven't been directly affected or bereaved by Covid, but I can only try and imagine what those people must think when they see things being said from across the spectrum of opinions about the whole scenario.
Even if it did peter out in the next few months, the legacy issues will last decades.  I see in school how it's affecting the normal dynamics.  Yes kids are robust, adaptable and resilient than might often be portrayed, but it's alien and difficult for a lot of them.  You steer them along as best you can, but in the back of your mind, you're questioning everything about what you are asking them to do.
The entire thing is just a headache.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 14, 2021, 08:11:10 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 13, 2021, 10:37:11 PM
Spoofer John Campbell again

UK, 50% omicron now

https://youtu.be/XzrG3Odgf28 (https://youtu.be/XzrG3Odgf28)

Omicron doesn't care if you're vaccinated or not when it comes to catching it

If you reference him as spoofer then I suppose its OK to still post his links but I'd prefer you didn't... I see he is still putting ticks and crosses beside sentences , how great!!!!

I watched his Japanese Inver. which was waffle and another link by bennycake and where he spent a good 5 minutes laughing at 3 pts a report made only to continue reading and see that the report qualified the 3 points like he had spend the previous 5 minutes suggesting... he then created a false narrative like all good spoofers that it made all other research obsolete which the report never suggested... spoofer!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on December 14, 2021, 09:12:25 AM

https://www.ft.com/content/42c5ff3d-e676-4076-9b9f-7243a00cba5e

How well will Covid vaccines work against Omicron? Two lines of evidence are beginning to confirm virologists' fears that vaccines and prior infection will be less effective at preventing cases of Omicron than previous variants. One comes from lab experiments in which scientists expose blood samples to the virus and measure the antibody response. The other uses "real world" epidemiology to estimate how vaccination status affects the risk of developing Covid. Early conclusions suggest a large decline occurs in immunity against Omicron after two vaccine doses, particularly among people double-jabbed with the Oxford-AstraZeneca product, while a third booster jab works well at restoring most, though not all, of the protection.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:14:56 AM
Vaccine, new variant, booster, new variant, another booster, another variant, booster, variant....

The conspiracy theorists are looking a lot less whacky as this thing progresses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:16:52 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 13, 2021, 11:23:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2021, 10:07:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 13, 2021, 08:25:52 PM
The amount of Irish folk reading, listening to siding with the right wing these days is very surprising. They really are making hay (someone on here predicted as much at the start of the pandemic)
Can't blame them with all the other gobshites supporting lockdowns

I don't know of anyone who supports lockdowns, I'm for taking the vaccine and moving on, but if this new mutation causes more deaths, then some restrictions need to be looked at, more community testing followed by isolating if infected
The headcases dont want restrictions or the vaccines when it's clear that we need one or the other. My preference would be that people vax up and we don't need to go in and out of restrictions as they leave terrible uncertainty for business owners and employees, especially around hospitality and retail. I had to use my Covid app last Saturday when out for lunch and not once did I feel like I was being asked for my papers in Nazi Germany.
Felt that way to me tbh. Disgusting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 14, 2021, 09:22:38 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:14:56 AM
Vaccine, new variant, booster, new variant, another booster, another variant, booster, variant....

The conspiracy theorists are looking a lot less whacky as this thing progresses.

A new variant is hardly a conspiracy theory and if you thought delta was a conspiracy maybe you should track the hospital numbers...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 14, 2021, 09:24:54 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:14:56 AM
Vaccine, new variant, booster, new variant, another booster, another variant, booster, variant....

The conspiracy theorists are looking a lot less whacky as this thing progresses.

Not if you have any kind of understanding of science. Viruses evolve, all scientists were consistently saying from the start that the evolution of the virus was unpredictable. The conspiracy theorists look more and more stupid every day. For example, at the start, many of the conspiracy theorists said it was all media hype and would blow over in a couple of months. They're like the Qanon lunatics, the goalposts move every time one of their predictions is proved wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 14, 2021, 09:34:28 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:16:52 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 13, 2021, 11:23:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2021, 10:07:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 13, 2021, 08:25:52 PM
The amount of Irish folk reading, listening to siding with the right wing these days is very surprising. They really are making hay (someone on here predicted as much at the start of the pandemic)
Can't blame them with all the other gobshites supporting lockdowns

I don't know of anyone who supports lockdowns, I'm for taking the vaccine and moving on, but if this new mutation causes more deaths, then some restrictions need to be looked at, more community testing followed by isolating if infected
The headcases dont want restrictions or the vaccines when it's clear that we need one or the other. My preference would be that people vax up and we don't need to go in and out of restrictions as they leave terrible uncertainty for business owners and employees, especially around hospitality and retail. I had to use my Covid app last Saturday when out for lunch and not once did I feel like I was being asked for my papers in Nazi Germany.
Felt that way to me tbh. Disgusting.

you must hate showing a passport at airports or ID at nightclubs/bars and getting asked for a ticket going into a match or concert...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 14, 2021, 09:42:09 AM
Quote from: lenny on December 14, 2021, 09:24:54 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:14:56 AM
Vaccine, new variant, booster, new variant, another booster, another variant, booster, variant....

The conspiracy theorists are looking a lot less whacky as this thing progresses.

Not if you have any kind of understanding of science. Viruses evolve, all scientists were consistently saying from the start that the evolution of the virus was unpredictable. The conspiracy theorists look more and more stupid every day. For example, at the start, many of the conspiracy theorists said it was all media hype and would blow over in a couple of months. They're like the Qanon lunatics, the goalposts move every time one of their predictions is proved wrong.

It's just crazy. Just because science tries to tackle any changes in the pandemic the conspiracy spooks  are trying to claim this as a fault. These changes are outside anyones control. And all the while, once science does show to help things they rally against it anyway.  It's just bizarre.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 14, 2021, 09:55:14 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:14:56 AM
Vaccine, new variant, booster, new variant, another booster, another variant, booster, variant....

The conspiracy theorists are looking a lot less whacky as this thing progresses.

Effectively that's how the flu vaccine works  ::)

And before we head we don't have blah blah blah for the flu......... we haven't had a pandemic in approx. 100 years
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 14, 2021, 10:03:23 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 14, 2021, 09:42:09 AM
Quote from: lenny on December 14, 2021, 09:24:54 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:14:56 AM
Vaccine, new variant, booster, new variant, another booster, another variant, booster, variant....

The conspiracy theorists are looking a lot less whacky as this thing progresses.

Not if you have any kind of understanding of science. Viruses evolve, all scientists were consistently saying from the start that the evolution of the virus was unpredictable. The conspiracy theorists look more and more stupid every day. For example, at the start, many of the conspiracy theorists said it was all media hype and would blow over in a couple of months. They're like the Qanon lunatics, the goalposts move every time one of their predictions is proved wrong.

It's just crazy. Just because science tries to tackle any changes in the pandemic the conspiracy spooks  are trying to claim this as a fault. These changes are outside anyones control. And all the while, once science does show to help things they rally against it anyway.  It's just bizarre.

It's bonkers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 10:07:38 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 14, 2021, 09:55:14 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:14:56 AM
Vaccine, new variant, booster, new variant, another booster, another variant, booster, variant....

The conspiracy theorists are looking a lot less whacky as this thing progresses.

Effectively that's how the flu vaccine works  ::)

And before we head we don't have blah blah blah for the flu......... we haven't had a pandemic in approx. 100 years
Hopefully this shite ends up like the flu where the vulnerable can get their jab every year.

But when was the last time you saw someone turned away from the pub over it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 14, 2021, 10:17:19 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 10:07:38 AM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 14, 2021, 09:55:14 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:14:56 AM
Vaccine, new variant, booster, new variant, another booster, another variant, booster, variant....

The conspiracy theorists are looking a lot less whacky as this thing progresses.

Effectively that's how the flu vaccine works  ::)

And before we head we don't have blah blah blah for the flu......... we haven't had a pandemic in approx. 100 years
Hopefully this shite ends up like the flu where the vulnerable can get their jab every year.

But when was the last time you saw someone turned away from the pub over it

When was the last time we had a pandemic?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 14, 2021, 10:29:47 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:16:52 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 13, 2021, 11:23:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2021, 10:07:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 13, 2021, 08:25:52 PM
The amount of Irish folk reading, listening to siding with the right wing these days is very surprising. They really are making hay (someone on here predicted as much at the start of the pandemic)
Can't blame them with all the other gobshites supporting lockdowns

I don't know of anyone who supports lockdowns, I'm for taking the vaccine and moving on, but if this new mutation causes more deaths, then some restrictions need to be looked at, more community testing followed by isolating if infected
The headcases dont want restrictions or the vaccines when it's clear that we need one or the other. My preference would be that people vax up and we don't need to go in and out of restrictions as they leave terrible uncertainty for business owners and employees, especially around hospitality and retail. I had to use my Covid app last Saturday when out for lunch and not once did I feel like I was being asked for my papers in Nazi Germany.
Felt that way to me tbh. Disgusting.

You must have little to worry about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 10:31:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 14, 2021, 10:29:47 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:16:52 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 13, 2021, 11:23:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2021, 10:07:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 13, 2021, 08:25:52 PM
The amount of Irish folk reading, listening to siding with the right wing these days is very surprising. They really are making hay (someone on here predicted as much at the start of the pandemic)
Can't blame them with all the other gobshites supporting lockdowns

I don't know of anyone who supports lockdowns, I'm for taking the vaccine and moving on, but if this new mutation causes more deaths, then some restrictions need to be looked at, more community testing followed by isolating if infected
The headcases dont want restrictions or the vaccines when it's clear that we need one or the other. My preference would be that people vax up and we don't need to go in and out of restrictions as they leave terrible uncertainty for business owners and employees, especially around hospitality and retail. I had to use my Covid app last Saturday when out for lunch and not once did I feel like I was being asked for my papers in Nazi Germany.
Felt that way to me tbh. Disgusting.

You must have little to worry about.
We'll see what next discriminatory measure is next.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 14, 2021, 10:32:46 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on December 13, 2021, 08:26:39 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 13, 2021, 07:45:41 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on December 13, 2021, 07:30:06 PM
Last weekend - Got my booster, no big deal.  Used my covid passport in a restaurant, no big deal. Wore my mask in the supermarket, no big deal.  Very happy to play a small part in taking the weight off the nurses and doctors on the frontline.  Truly can't understand why some people can't make the effort.

You're being oppressed and you don't realize it.

Apparently...

Think there's something in there about sheep as well.
I don't feel in the least oppressed.  Making all my own decisions based on as much evidence as I can source (excluding the eejits), so no sheep angle either.

I guess I need to word things better for the sarcasm to get through. ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 14, 2021, 10:34:50 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 10:31:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 14, 2021, 10:29:47 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:16:52 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 13, 2021, 11:23:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2021, 10:07:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 13, 2021, 08:25:52 PM
The amount of Irish folk reading, listening to siding with the right wing these days is very surprising. They really are making hay (someone on here predicted as much at the start of the pandemic)
Can't blame them with all the other gobshites supporting lockdowns

I don't know of anyone who supports lockdowns, I'm for taking the vaccine and moving on, but if this new mutation causes more deaths, then some restrictions need to be looked at, more community testing followed by isolating if infected
The headcases dont want restrictions or the vaccines when it's clear that we need one or the other. My preference would be that people vax up and we don't need to go in and out of restrictions as they leave terrible uncertainty for business owners and employees, especially around hospitality and retail. I had to use my Covid app last Saturday when out for lunch and not once did I feel like I was being asked for my papers in Nazi Germany.
Felt that way to me tbh. Disgusting.

You must have little to worry about.
We'll see what next discriminatory measure is next.

I hear Clockwork Orange-style re-education is on the way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 14, 2021, 10:48:14 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 10:31:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 14, 2021, 10:29:47 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:16:52 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 13, 2021, 11:23:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2021, 10:07:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 13, 2021, 08:25:52 PM
The amount of Irish folk reading, listening to siding with the right wing these days is very surprising. They really are making hay (someone on here predicted as much at the start of the pandemic)
Can't blame them with all the other gobshites supporting lockdowns

I don't know of anyone who supports lockdowns, I'm for taking the vaccine and moving on, but if this new mutation causes more deaths, then some restrictions need to be looked at, more community testing followed by isolating if infected
The headcases dont want restrictions or the vaccines when it's clear that we need one or the other. My preference would be that people vax up and we don't need to go in and out of restrictions as they leave terrible uncertainty for business owners and employees, especially around hospitality and retail. I had to use my Covid app last Saturday when out for lunch and not once did I feel like I was being asked for my papers in Nazi Germany.
Felt that way to me tbh. Disgusting.

You must have little to worry about.
We'll see what next discriminatory measure is next.

you must have been apoplectic when they introduced the smoking ban, never mind what they are doing in NZ now...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 14, 2021, 11:08:53 AM
Next thing "they" will insist on people wearing clothes to get into places...... not to mention having to do our business in toilets.
Our freedoms to do whatever the fk we like are being eroded by "them".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on December 14, 2021, 11:10:17 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:16:52 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 13, 2021, 11:23:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2021, 10:07:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 13, 2021, 08:25:52 PM
The amount of Irish folk reading, listening to siding with the right wing these days is very surprising. They really are making hay (someone on here predicted as much at the start of the pandemic)
Can't blame them with all the other gobshites supporting lockdowns

I don't know of anyone who supports lockdowns, I'm for taking the vaccine and moving on, but if this new mutation causes more deaths, then some restrictions need to be looked at, more community testing followed by isolating if infected
The headcases dont want restrictions or the vaccines when it's clear that we need one or the other. My preference would be that people vax up and we don't need to go in and out of restrictions as they leave terrible uncertainty for business owners and employees, especially around hospitality and retail. I had to use my Covid app last Saturday when out for lunch and not once did I feel like I was being asked for my papers in Nazi Germany.
Felt that way to me tbh. Disgusting.

Catch yourself on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 14, 2021, 11:14:25 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on December 14, 2021, 11:10:17 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:16:52 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 13, 2021, 11:23:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2021, 10:07:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 13, 2021, 08:25:52 PM
The amount of Irish folk reading, listening to siding with the right wing these days is very surprising. They really are making hay (someone on here predicted as much at the start of the pandemic)
Can't blame them with all the other gobshites supporting lockdowns

I don't know of anyone who supports lockdowns, I'm for taking the vaccine and moving on, but if this new mutation causes more deaths, then some restrictions need to be looked at, more community testing followed by isolating if infected
The headcases dont want restrictions or the vaccines when it's clear that we need one or the other. My preference would be that people vax up and we don't need to go in and out of restrictions as they leave terrible uncertainty for business owners and employees, especially around hospitality and retail. I had to use my Covid app last Saturday when out for lunch and not once did I feel like I was being asked for my papers in Nazi Germany.
Felt that way to me tbh. Disgusting.

Then you're a clown.

One man's clown is another man's deep thinker. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NAG1 on December 14, 2021, 11:17:26 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 14, 2021, 11:14:25 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on December 14, 2021, 11:10:17 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:16:52 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 13, 2021, 11:23:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2021, 10:07:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 13, 2021, 08:25:52 PM
The amount of Irish folk reading, listening to siding with the right wing these days is very surprising. They really are making hay (someone on here predicted as much at the start of the pandemic)
Can't blame them with all the other gobshites supporting lockdowns

I don't know of anyone who supports lockdowns, I'm for taking the vaccine and moving on, but if this new mutation causes more deaths, then some restrictions need to be looked at, more community testing followed by isolating if infected
The headcases dont want restrictions or the vaccines when it's clear that we need one or the other. My preference would be that people vax up and we don't need to go in and out of restrictions as they leave terrible uncertainty for business owners and employees, especially around hospitality and retail. I had to use my Covid app last Saturday when out for lunch and not once did I feel like I was being asked for my papers in Nazi Germany.
Felt that way to me tbh. Disgusting.

Then you're a clown.

One man's clown is another man's deep thinker.

If it made you feel like that, sit in the house. Win Win for everyone.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 14, 2021, 11:34:23 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on December 14, 2021, 11:17:26 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 14, 2021, 11:14:25 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on December 14, 2021, 11:10:17 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:16:52 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 13, 2021, 11:23:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2021, 10:07:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 13, 2021, 08:25:52 PM
The amount of Irish folk reading, listening to siding with the right wing these days is very surprising. They really are making hay (someone on here predicted as much at the start of the pandemic)
Can't blame them with all the other gobshites supporting lockdowns

I don't know of anyone who supports lockdowns, I'm for taking the vaccine and moving on, but if this new mutation causes more deaths, then some restrictions need to be looked at, more community testing followed by isolating if infected
The headcases dont want restrictions or the vaccines when it's clear that we need one or the other. My preference would be that people vax up and we don't need to go in and out of restrictions as they leave terrible uncertainty for business owners and employees, especially around hospitality and retail. I had to use my Covid app last Saturday when out for lunch and not once did I feel like I was being asked for my papers in Nazi Germany.
Felt that way to me tbh. Disgusting.

Then you're a clown.

One man's clown is another man's deep thinker.

If it made you feel like that, sit in the house. Win Win for everyone.

If what made me feel like what? Would there be many front line workers sitting in the house?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 12:34:08 PM
Stormont voting again on the passports
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on December 14, 2021, 12:44:25 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 14, 2021, 11:14:25 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on December 14, 2021, 11:10:17 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:16:52 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 13, 2021, 11:23:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2021, 10:07:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 13, 2021, 08:25:52 PM
The amount of Irish folk reading, listening to siding with the right wing these days is very surprising. They really are making hay (someone on here predicted as much at the start of the pandemic)
Can't blame them with all the other gobshites supporting lockdowns

I don't know of anyone who supports lockdowns, I'm for taking the vaccine and moving on, but if this new mutation causes more deaths, then some restrictions need to be looked at, more community testing followed by isolating if infected
The headcases dont want restrictions or the vaccines when it's clear that we need one or the other. My preference would be that people vax up and we don't need to go in and out of restrictions as they leave terrible uncertainty for business owners and employees, especially around hospitality and retail. I had to use my Covid app last Saturday when out for lunch and not once did I feel like I was being asked for my papers in Nazi Germany.
Felt that way to me tbh. Disgusting.

Then you're a clown.

One man's clown is another man's deep thinker.


https://twitter.com/auschwitzmuseum/status/1470141339484528641?s=21
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 14, 2021, 12:59:59 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:16:52 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 13, 2021, 11:23:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2021, 10:07:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 13, 2021, 09:40:56 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 13, 2021, 08:25:52 PM
The amount of Irish folk reading, listening to siding with the right wing these days is very surprising. They really are making hay (someone on here predicted as much at the start of the pandemic)
Can't blame them with all the other gobshites supporting lockdowns

I don't know of anyone who supports lockdowns, I'm for taking the vaccine and moving on, but if this new mutation causes more deaths, then some restrictions need to be looked at, more community testing followed by isolating if infected
The headcases dont want restrictions or the vaccines when it's clear that we need one or the other. My preference would be that people vax up and we don't need to go in and out of restrictions as they leave terrible uncertainty for business owners and employees, especially around hospitality and retail. I had to use my Covid app last Saturday when out for lunch and not once did I feel like I was being asked for my papers in Nazi Germany.
Felt that way to me tbh. Disgusting.

What an incredibly cushy privileged life you must live if you think this is like Nazi Germany.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 14, 2021, 02:06:21 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 14, 2021, 01:54:59 PM
So now that covid passports have been introduced, where people who have covid can walk freely into a restaurants. Lets face it, that's what it means as  anyone who has not been vaccinated can't go unless they have a lateral flow showing a negative, so they will not be the spreader, what will the next step be? Employers enforcing all staff to be vaccinated. Its happening in other countries at the expense of peoples careers and livelihood's. Is that the slope we are on? Where do YOU draw the line?

The pass works well, I just show it at the door and they let me in, or if I didn't have one they won't. But if I have evidence of having caught covid within a certain period and or have a negative flow test result then I'm in, its not too difficult. If you haven't either of these why would you be putting yourself or others at risk? social distance and keep yourself safe for the next while.

By the same token if I'm pissed and the door man says you've had enough mate you aint getting in, are my rights being affected?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 14, 2021, 02:10:47 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 14, 2021, 02:08:04 PM
answer the question

What question would you like answering? You have about 3 question marks in that one of yours 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 14, 2021, 03:11:17 PM
In good news for a change, the Pfizer anti viral drug reduced hospitalisation in vulnerable people by almost 90%. In their trial nobody died, while 12 died who did not receive the drug.
For regular people, who are less likely to go to hospital, it still reduced hospitalisation by 70%.
Of course, the loonies will say that Big Pharma made the disease and are now releasing the cure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 04:18:33 PM
❗Does this sound abusive to you? ❗

My friends husband won't let her visit friends or family.

He's made her stop all contact with them unless it's by phone or computer.

He reads and censors her comments on social media.

He makes her feel like she's going crazy for thinking that he's controlling her and that she's being ungrateful, after all he's only doing this because of how much he cares for her.

He doesn't want her going to the gym anymore so she doesn't go.

He doesn't want her going to work anymore, so she doesn't go.

He told her, you've got to rely on me for income.

He doesn't let her go out anymore unless it's for necessities, and when she does he makes sure he has people in place to guilt trip her about it.

By now she is so weary, scared and miserable she will do anything just to have a life and feel less lonely.

He wants her to have a medical procedure done, that she really doesn't want to have.  He says if she does it for him, he'll let her start going to the pictures and for nights out with her friends again.

But even then, he wants her to download something on her phone so that he can trace her movements and keep track of exactly where she is every single day.  He says it reassures him and that its for her own good - because only he can keep her safe.

And to top it all off he's always telling her he's only doing this because he cares.

Did I say husband?

I meant Government.

Here's the funny thing in society.  We're outraged if we do this to a spouse, but when the government do it to us, we stand by and allow it to happen.

Rise👏👏
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 14, 2021, 04:31:29 PM
Get a divorce and move on I'd say. or move to a different government like Brazil
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on December 14, 2021, 05:00:16 PM
Very good Armagh 18
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 14, 2021, 05:19:37 PM
false narratives all over that post A18... where did you source that rubbish from.


why do you not rise up every year when taxes change, smoking ban, changes in air travel etc. 🤔

edit... what about mobiles, Facebook and Google tracking movement also!!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 14, 2021, 05:20:31 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 04:18:33 PM
❗Does this sound abusive to you? ❗

My friends husband won't let her visit friends or family.

He's made her stop all contact with them unless it's by phone or computer.

He reads and censors her comments on social media.

He makes her feel like she's going crazy for thinking that he's controlling her and that she's being ungrateful, after all he's only doing this because of how much he cares for her.

He doesn't want her going to the gym anymore so she doesn't go.

He doesn't want her going to work anymore, so she doesn't go.

He told her, you've got to rely on me for income.

He doesn't let her go out anymore unless it's for necessities, and when she does he makes sure he has people in place to guilt trip her about it.

By now she is so weary, scared and miserable she will do anything just to have a life and feel less lonely.

He wants her to have a medical procedure done, that she really doesn't want to have.  He says if she does it for him, he'll let her start going to the pictures and for nights out with her friends again.

But even then, he wants her to download something on her phone so that he can trace her movements and keep track of exactly where she is every single day.  He says it reassures him and that its for her own good - because only he can keep her safe.

And to top it all off he's always telling her he's only doing this because he cares.

Did I say husband?

I meant Government.

Here's the funny thing in society.  We're outraged if we do this to a spouse, but when the government do it to us, we stand by and allow it to happen.

Rise👏👏


Shorter version.

My friends husband wouldn't let her visit friends or family, because she might come back with a disease dangerous to everyone in the family.
He suggested she get a couple of 3 second jabs so that the risk is reduced and she can mix a bit more and keep everyone safe. Being a normal reasonable person, she did.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 14, 2021, 05:36:37 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 04:18:33 PM
❗Does this sound abusive to you? ❗

My friends husband won't let her visit friends or family.

He's made her stop all contact with them unless it's by phone or computer.

He reads and censors her comments on social media.

He makes her feel like she's going crazy for thinking that he's controlling her and that she's being ungrateful, after all he's only doing this because of how much he cares for her.

He doesn't want her going to the gym anymore so she doesn't go.

He doesn't want her going to work anymore, so she doesn't go.

He told her, you've got to rely on me for income.

He doesn't let her go out anymore unless it's for necessities, and when she does he makes sure he has people in place to guilt trip her about it.

By now she is so weary, scared and miserable she will do anything just to have a life and feel less lonely.

He wants her to have a medical procedure done, that she really doesn't want to have.  He says if she does it for him, he'll let her start going to the pictures and for nights out with her friends again.

But even then, he wants her to download something on her phone so that he can trace her movements and keep track of exactly where she is every single day.  He says it reassures him and that its for her own good - because only he can keep her safe.

And to top it all off he's always telling her he's only doing this because he cares.

Did I say husband?

I meant Government.

Here's the funny thing in society.  We're outraged if we do this to a spouse, but when the government do it to us, we stand by and allow it to happen.

Rise👏👏

She should leave him immediately. Get herself triple vaccinated, download the Covid cert and she'll be able to go out and meet someone nicer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 14, 2021, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 14, 2021, 04:31:29 PM
Get a divorce and move on I'd say. or move to a different government like Brazil

Or North Korea? I wonder what Kim jong un makes of vaccine passports lol.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 14, 2021, 06:36:26 PM
Armagh18 doesn't represent all of Armagh.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 14, 2021, 06:46:35 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 14, 2021, 03:11:17 PM
In good news for a change, the Pfizer anti viral drug reduced hospitalisation in vulnerable people by almost 90%. In their trial nobody died, while 12 died who did not receive the drug.
For regular people, who are less likely to go to hospital, it still reduced hospitalisation by 70%.
Of course, the loonies will say that Big Pharma made the disease and are now releasing the cure.

Yeah, so the hospitals should get a few labels that read ivermectin or whatever the miracle treatment du jour is in right wing circles so they can stick it on the boxes or jars to allow them to treat the loonies.

That way they'll think they're towing the reactionary line and sticking it to big pharma, the government, "they" and the libtard sheep.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: CK_Redhand on December 14, 2021, 07:13:39 PM
What a great "gotcha" copied and pasted from socials, complete with emojis and all.  Another one on the ignore list.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on December 14, 2021, 07:28:09 PM
QuoteSo now that covid passports have been introduced, where people who have covid can walk freely into a restaurants. Lets face it, that's what it means as  anyone who has not been vaccinated can't go unless they have a lateral flow showing a negative, so they will not be the spreader?

This is a true statement. Only people who have taken a lateral flow will 'know' that they are clear. I'm sure we would all agree, this will not stop the spread
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 14, 2021, 07:34:01 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 14, 2021, 07:28:09 PM
QuoteSo now that covid passports have been introduced, where people who have covid can walk freely into a restaurants. Lets face it, that's what it means as  anyone who has not been vaccinated can't go unless they have a lateral flow showing a negative, so they will not be the spreader?

This is a true statement. Only people who have taken a lateral flow will 'know' that they are clear. I'm sure we would all agree, this will not stop the spread

We should be testing more, I fully agree with that, I'm also behind the science that says vaccines reduces illness better than no vaccine. Can you imagine how quickly we could get back to normal if we followed those rules?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 08:27:36 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 14, 2021, 07:28:09 PM
QuoteSo now that covid passports have been introduced, where people who have covid can walk freely into a restaurants. Lets face it, that's what it means as  anyone who has not been vaccinated can't go unless they have a lateral flow showing a negative, so they will not be the spreader?

This is a true statement. Only people who have taken a lateral flow will 'know' that they are clear. I'm sure we would all agree, this will not stop the spread
The lateral flows are only 50% accurate I thought?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 14, 2021, 08:30:11 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 08:27:36 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 14, 2021, 07:28:09 PM
QuoteSo now that covid passports have been introduced, where people who have covid can walk freely into a restaurants. Lets face it, that's what it means as  anyone who has not been vaccinated can't go unless they have a lateral flow showing a negative, so they will not be the spreader?

This is a true statement. Only people who have taken a lateral flow will 'know' that they are clear. I'm sure we would all agree, this will not stop the spread
The lateral flows are only 50% accurate I thought?

A very quick search and it says 80% from a report on the 25th October
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 14, 2021, 08:54:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 14, 2021, 08:30:11 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 08:27:36 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 14, 2021, 07:28:09 PM
QuoteSo now that covid passports have been introduced, where people who have covid can walk freely into a restaurants. Lets face it, that's what it means as  anyone who has not been vaccinated can't go unless they have a lateral flow showing a negative, so they will not be the spreader?

This is a true statement. Only people who have taken a lateral flow will 'know' that they are clear. I'm sure we would all agree, this will not stop the spread
The lateral flows are only 50% accurate I thought?

A very quick search and it says 80% from a report on the 25th October

However, accurate they are they have to be done right. Someone doing it on themselves is no proof.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:22:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 14, 2021, 08:30:11 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 08:27:36 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 14, 2021, 07:28:09 PM
QuoteSo now that covid passports have been introduced, where people who have covid can walk freely into a restaurants. Lets face it, that's what it means as  anyone who has not been vaccinated can't go unless they have a lateral flow showing a negative, so they will not be the spreader?

This is a true statement. Only people who have taken a lateral flow will 'know' that they are clear. I'm sure we would all agree, this will not stop the spread
The lateral flows are only 50% accurate I thought?

A very quick search and it says 80% from a report on the 25th October
If done by a medical professional maybe, can't see people doing them on themselves being able to swab themselves properly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 14, 2021, 09:48:35 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 09:22:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 14, 2021, 08:30:11 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 08:27:36 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 14, 2021, 07:28:09 PM
QuoteSo now that covid passports have been introduced, where people who have covid can walk freely into a restaurants. Lets face it, that's what it means as  anyone who has not been vaccinated can't go unless they have a lateral flow showing a negative, so they will not be the spreader?

This is a true statement. Only people who have taken a lateral flow will 'know' that they are clear. I'm sure we would all agree, this will not stop the spread
The lateral flows are only 50% accurate I thought?

A very quick search and it says 80% from a report on the 25th October
If done by a medical professional maybe, can't see people doing them on themselves being able to swab themselves properly.

Yeah it's so difficult
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on December 14, 2021, 10:14:09 PM
Hospital situation the last month of Tuesdays in ROI

4 weeks ago - 601 in hospital and 114 in ICU
3 weeks ago - 590 in hospital and 130 in ICU
2 weeks ago - 561 in hospital and 122 in ICU
Last week - 516 in hospital and 117 in ICU
Tonight - 457 in hospital and 109 in ICU
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 14, 2021, 10:41:16 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 14, 2021, 10:14:09 PM
Hospital situation the last month of Tuesdays in ROI

4 weeks ago - 601 in hospital and 114 in ICU
3 weeks ago - 590 in hospital and 130 in ICU
2 weeks ago - 561 in hospital and 122 in ICU
Last week - 516 in hospital and 117 in ICU
Tonight - 457 in hospital and 109 in ICU

Going the right direction thankfully
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 14, 2021, 11:37:17 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 14, 2021, 11:34:54 PM
Dr Malone is a leading researcher and inventor of the liposomal mRNA vaccine technology, which is in use right now.  Bit by bit. An absolute must watch

https://www.notonthebeeb.co.uk/post/dr-robert-malone-on-vaccinating-children?utm_campaign=2a06decf-a023-4315-922a-701f932fca8b&utm_source=so&utm_medium=mail&cid=cb72482c-3e77-4139-b652-97426fb11dff&fbclid=IwAR0roJa5_iT5QYxMCB4bHANxpTw8colMk9ZMRYYoMooO8TYOJvjouGcrYgI (https://www.notonthebeeb.co.uk/post/dr-robert-malone-on-vaccinating-children?utm_campaign=2a06decf-a023-4315-922a-701f932fca8b&utm_source=so&utm_medium=mail&cid=cb72482c-3e77-4139-b652-97426fb11dff&fbclid=IwAR0roJa5_iT5QYxMCB4bHANxpTw8colMk9ZMRYYoMooO8TYOJvjouGcrYgI)

* Citation needed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 14, 2021, 11:40:10 PM
Good old Rob Malone. Is he still sharing using bogus papers to back up his weird and wacky alternative theories??

https://factcheck.afp.com/http%253A%252F%252Fdoc.afp.com%252F9EU9W7-1  (https://factcheck.afp.com/http%253A%252F%252Fdoc.afp.com%252F9EU9W7-1)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on December 15, 2021, 12:04:11 AM
Come on boys ... you have to be skeptical about everything you read/watch/listen ... everything. Is there not enough flying about in the ether to at the very least keep an open mind about some things. None of us can be certain about anything

Why are folk SO trusting of the big pharma being our saviour? I say keep an open mind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_pharmaceutical_settlements (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_pharmaceutical_settlements)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2021, 12:06:45 AM
I don't need experts on either side to tell me that we don't need to vaccinate wains. Nobody does, there is no evidence or compelling argument to support their vaccination
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2021, 12:16:27 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2021, 12:06:45 AM
I don't need experts on either side to tell me that we don't need to vaccinate wains. Nobody does, there is no evidence or compelling argument to support their vaccination

I know it's crazy, why would you give vaccines to kids, completely absurd
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on December 15, 2021, 12:40:16 AM
Put a word out of place and you're in like flynn. Lets have a laugh at FBNS's 'stupidity' rather than respond to the point you know he's making :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 15, 2021, 01:22:05 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2021, 12:16:27 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2021, 12:06:45 AM
I don't need experts on either side to tell me that we don't need to vaccinate wains. Nobody does, there is no evidence or compelling argument to support their vaccination

I know it's crazy, why would you give vaccines to kids, completely absurd
Remind me how many vaccinations do children get in the first few years of life....
Remind me how many cases of polio, diphtheria,  etc have occurred in the ladst 3 years...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 15, 2021, 01:40:34 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 15, 2021, 01:22:05 AM
Remind me how many vaccinations do children get in the first few years of life....
Remind me how many cases of polio, diphtheria,  etc have occurred in the ladst 3 years...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EyJgWOmXIAQ3JnG.png)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 15, 2021, 01:47:27 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2021, 12:06:45 AM
I don't need experts on either side to tell me that we don't need to vaccinate wains. Nobody does, there is no evidence or compelling argument to support their vaccination

What point is that?

That he knows better than any experts?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 15, 2021, 02:14:25 AM
There is some level of knowledge on this forum, I'm surprised the government doesn't ask it for advice instead of NPHET.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2021, 08:16:18 AM
My point wasn't probably clear enough obviously.

Children don't need the vaccine because if they have it the chance of them spreading the virus is only slightly reduced. It's not reduced significantly enough to warrant it. On top of that if everyone else is jabbed well what's the issue .This is about protecting NHS  , so far so good with adult vaccination levels

Im double jabbed but I'd never consider at the moment jabbing my children. Possibly if a few years maybe but the benefits definitely don't outweigh risk for me. Of course we get other jabs but they have been around a little longer and haven't needed the same frequency of back up. Btw I wouldn't be getting my wain flu jab for what it's worth, I've never considered that for me we either

I have no issue with others doing whatever they see best for their families
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2021, 08:19:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 01:47:27 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2021, 12:06:45 AM
I don't need experts on either side to tell me that we don't need to vaccinate wains. Nobody does, there is no evidence or compelling argument to support their vaccination

What point is that?

That he knows better than any experts?

I didn't claim i did. Experts are not calling for mass vaccinations of children , offering but not mandating
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on December 15, 2021, 08:26:54 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2021, 12:06:45 AM
I don't need experts on either side to tell me that we don't need to vaccinate wains. Nobody does, there is no evidence or compelling argument to support their vaccination

Don't bother talking sense on here Fear,  you'll have the vaccination authorities on your case shortly.
       Polio, measles, rubella etc will all be mentioned, that have zero or very little relevance to this covid19 Vaccination programme.
       You could throw in having 4, 5 and 6 years olds wearing masks at school but no doubt the benefits will be explained to you as if your a fool.
       
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: charlieTully on December 15, 2021, 08:55:36 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2021, 08:16:18 AM
My point wasn't probably clear enough obviously.

Children don't need the vaccine because if they have it the chance of them spreading the virus is only slightly reduced. It's not reduced significantly enough to warrant it. On top of that if everyone else is jabbed well what's the issue .This is about protecting NHS  , so far so good with adult vaccination levels

Im double jabbed but I'd never consider at the moment jabbing my children. Possibly if a few years maybe but the benefits definitely don't outweigh risk for me. Of course we get other jabs but they have been around a little longer and haven't needed the same frequency of back up. Btw I wouldn't be getting my wain flu jab for what it's worth, I've never considered that for me we either

I have no issue with others doing whatever they see best for their families

Agreed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2021, 09:00:51 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on December 15, 2021, 08:55:36 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2021, 08:16:18 AM
My point wasn't probably clear enough obviously.

Children don't need the vaccine because if they have it the chance of them spreading the virus is only slightly reduced. It's not reduced significantly enough to warrant it. On top of that if everyone else is jabbed well what's the issue .This is about protecting NHS  , so far so good with adult vaccination levels

Im double jabbed but I'd never consider at the moment jabbing my children. Possibly if a few years maybe but the benefits definitely don't outweigh risk for me. Of course we get other jabs but they have been around a little longer and haven't needed the same frequency of back up. Btw I wouldn't be getting my wain flu jab for what it's worth, I've never considered that for me we either

I have no issue with others doing whatever they see best for their families

Agreed.

Why in a few years? This thing should be (hopefully) easier managed in a few years, probably less if there was less mutations. Will the science of the vaccine have changed by then?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2021, 09:25:44 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2021, 09:00:51 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on December 15, 2021, 08:55:36 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2021, 08:16:18 AM
My point wasn't probably clear enough obviously.

Children don't need the vaccine because if they have it the chance of them spreading the virus is only slightly reduced. It's not reduced significantly enough to warrant it. On top of that if everyone else is jabbed well what's the issue .This is about protecting NHS  , so far so good with adult vaccination levels

Im double jabbed but I'd never consider at the moment jabbing my children. Possibly if a few years maybe but the benefits definitely don't outweigh risk for me. Of course we get other jabs but they have been around a little longer and haven't needed the same frequency of back up. Btw I wouldn't be getting my wain flu jab for what it's worth, I've never considered that for me we either

I have no issue with others doing whatever they see best for their families

Agreed.

Why in a few years? This thing should be (hopefully) easier managed in a few years, probably less if there was less mutations. Will the science of the vaccine have changed by then?

No but the data set available on the vaccine will be much greater. This is just my own personal opinion, constant arguments about this in office. Headphones time for me when it starts .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 09:35:05 AM
medical science ok pre covid, medical science not OK post covid...

handwashing OK, mask wearing not OK despite the same medical professional recommending both..

bringing politics into medical science is wholly wrong and increasing happening to justify not following medical advice

Big pharma are well regulated, regulators have gatekeeper and supervision roles and the skulls post just shows that the how the regulator works... you would be hard pushed to find an industry  above reproach.. clothing and footwear and toy making with sweat shops, Facebook and Google with personal data, insurance industry with dual pricing etc, financial industry etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on December 15, 2021, 09:39:50 AM
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02243-1/fulltext

More science folks, interesting read.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on December 15, 2021, 09:41:30 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 09:35:05 AM
medical science ok pre covid, medical science not OK post covid...

handwashing OK, mask wearing not OK despite the same medical professional recommending both..

bringing politics into medical science is wholly wrong and increasing happening to justify not following medical advice

Big pharma are well regulated, regulators have gatekeeper and supervision roles and the skulls post just shows that the how the regulator works... you would be hard pushed to find an industry  above reproach.. clothing and footwear and toy making with sweat shops, Facebook and Google with personal data, insurance industry with dual pricing etc, financial industry etc.

Nothing and no industry is above reproach thats the entire point of debating this.

You only have to look at the Tamiflu scandal back during Swine Flu to know this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2014/apr/10/tamiflu-saga-drug-trials-big-pharma

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 09:46:42 AM
Quote from: grounded on December 15, 2021, 09:41:30 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 09:35:05 AM
medical science ok pre covid, medical science not OK post covid...

handwashing OK, mask wearing not OK despite the same medical professional recommending both..

bringing politics into medical science is wholly wrong and increasing happening to justify not following medical advice

Big pharma are well regulated, regulators have gatekeeper and supervision roles and the skulls post just shows that the how the regulator works... you would be hard pushed to find an industry  above reproach.. clothing and footwear and toy making with sweat shops, Facebook and Google with personal data, insurance industry with dual pricing etc, financial industry etc.

Nothing and no industry is above reproach thats the entire point of debating this.

You only have to look at the Tamiflu scandal back during Swine Flu to know this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2014/apr/10/tamiflu-saga-drug-trials-big-pharma

it's being presented as such and that why we have regulators and safeguards in place... just because there was an issue before doesn't mean there will be again... that's the logical of someone posting about regulator fines...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 09:47:45 AM
Quote from: Last Man on December 15, 2021, 09:39:50 AM
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02243-1/fulltext

More science folks, interesting read.

you are the second person to post this article.. can you explain in layman terms what it is saying?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on December 15, 2021, 10:01:19 AM
All I'll say is that as published by the Lancet it can be accepted as credible and it's an easy read that doesn't require me compress it and potentially lose any nuance within the article. Headline addiction is destroying us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on December 15, 2021, 10:03:45 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 09:46:42 AM
Quote from: grounded on December 15, 2021, 09:41:30 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 09:35:05 AM
medical science ok pre covid, medical science not OK post covid...

handwashing OK, mask wearing not OK despite the same medical professional recommending both..

bringing politics into medical science is wholly wrong and increasing happening to justify not following medical advice

Big pharma are well regulated, regulators have gatekeeper and supervision roles and the skulls post just shows that the how the regulator works... you would be hard pushed to find an industry  above reproach.. clothing and footwear and toy making with sweat shops, Facebook and Google with personal data, insurance industry with dual pricing etc, financial industry etc.

Nothing and no industry is above reproach thats the entire point of debating this.

You only have to look at the Tamiflu scandal back during Swine Flu to know this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2014/apr/10/tamiflu-saga-drug-trials-big-pharma

it's being presented as such and that why we have regulators and safeguards in place... just because there was an issue before doesn't mean there will be again... that's the logical of someone posting about regulator fines...

Not sure if you read the article. At pretty much every level Roche tried to prevent the truth coming out about Tamiflu. All perfectly within the law. 
       It wasnt government agencies/regulatory bodies that brought them to account.
        One paediatrician left a comment on an online forum under a Tamiflu review by Cochrane. That was enough to set the ball rolling. It might never have come out.
         Billions of taxpayers money wasted worldwide on a drug that would have been of no benefit to swine flu. Worse, potentially millions of people given a drug of with no benefit for their condition and potential serious side effects.
        One of a number of cases (that we know off).
    Thats why people have serious reservations with current covid vaccination programmes and new Covid drugs produced by Pharmaceutical companies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2021, 10:13:25 AM
Quote from: grounded on December 15, 2021, 10:03:45 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 09:46:42 AM
Quote from: grounded on December 15, 2021, 09:41:30 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 09:35:05 AM
medical science ok pre covid, medical science not OK post covid...

handwashing OK, mask wearing not OK despite the same medical professional recommending both..

bringing politics into medical science is wholly wrong and increasing happening to justify not following medical advice

Big pharma are well regulated, regulators have gatekeeper and supervision roles and the skulls post just shows that the how the regulator works... you would be hard pushed to find an industry  above reproach.. clothing and footwear and toy making with sweat shops, Facebook and Google with personal data, insurance industry with dual pricing etc, financial industry etc.

Nothing and no industry is above reproach thats the entire point of debating this.

You only have to look at the Tamiflu scandal back during Swine Flu to know this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2014/apr/10/tamiflu-saga-drug-trials-big-pharma

it's being presented as such and that why we have regulators and safeguards in place... just because there was an issue before doesn't mean there will be again... that's the logical of someone posting about regulator fines...

Not sure if you read the article. At pretty much every level Roche tried to prevent the truth coming out about Tamiflu. All perfectly within the law. 
       It wasnt government agencies/regulatory bodies that brought them to account.
        One paediatrician left a comment on an online forum under a Tamiflu review by Cochrane. That was enough to set the ball rolling. It might never have come out.
         Billions of taxpayers money wasted worldwide on a drug that would have been of no benefit to swine flu. Worse, potentially millions of people given a drug of with no benefit for their condition and potential serious side effects.
        One of a number of cases (that we know off).
    Thats why people have serious reservations with current covid vaccination programmes and new Covid drugs produced by Pharmaceutical companies.

So basically you think that the vaccine that has been put out has not had any effect or could like this other one you mentioned have serious side effects?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 10:13:32 AM
Quote from: grounded on December 15, 2021, 10:03:45 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 09:46:42 AM
Quote from: grounded on December 15, 2021, 09:41:30 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 09:35:05 AM
medical science ok pre covid, medical science not OK post covid...

handwashing OK, mask wearing not OK despite the same medical professional recommending both..

bringing politics into medical science is wholly wrong and increasing happening to justify not following medical advice

Big pharma are well regulated, regulators have gatekeeper and supervision roles and the skulls post just shows that the how the regulator works... you would be hard pushed to find an industry  above reproach.. clothing and footwear and toy making with sweat shops, Facebook and Google with personal data, insurance industry with dual pricing etc, financial industry etc.

Nothing and no industry is above reproach thats the entire point of debating this.

You only have to look at the Tamiflu scandal back during Swine Flu to know this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2014/apr/10/tamiflu-saga-drug-trials-big-pharma

it's being presented as such and that why we have regulators and safeguards in place... just because there was an issue before doesn't mean there will be again... that's the logical of someone posting about regulator fines...

Not sure if you read the article. At pretty much every level Roche tried to prevent the truth coming out about Tamiflu. All perfectly within the law. 
       It wasnt government agencies/regulatory bodies that brought them to account.
        One paediatrician left a comment on an online forum under a Tamiflu review by Cochrane. That was enough to set the ball rolling. It might never have come out.
         Billions of taxpayers money wasted worldwide on a drug that would have been of no benefit to swine flu. Worse, potentially millions of people given a drug of with no benefit for their condition and potential serious side effects.
        One of a number of cases (that we know off).
    Thats why people have serious reservations with current covid vaccination programmes and new Covid drugs produced by Pharmaceutical companies.

I didn't notice it at the time but now read it and it furthers my point, you are using one/a few example.. if you look at all the medicines available that do work as advertised you are focusing on one that didn't. Is there evidence of any firms withholding data on the trials, from reading links posted on here there seems an abundance of information...

do you avoid all medicines and medical treatments because of tamiflu?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 15, 2021, 10:29:45 AM
I just don't understand the threshold for science for these people. There isn't enough data on the covid vaccines (Despite having more data than any other vaccine in history).
Why are all vaccines/ medical recommendations not given the same treatment. Why are the people who say no to the vaccine still happy to be treated by science and the pharma industry? Where is the logic in that? Or is it just a case that once they are sick, their principles and logic goes out the window due to fear?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2021, 10:58:10 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 15, 2021, 10:29:45 AM
I just don't understand the threshold for science for these people. There isn't enough data on the covid vaccines (Despite having more data than any other vaccine in history).
Why are all vaccines/ medical recommendations not given the same treatment. Why are the people who say no to the vaccine still happy to be treated by science and the pharma industry? Where is the logic in that? Or is it just a case that once they are sick, their principles and logic goes out the window due to fear?

NSAIDs such as ibuprofen may cause ulcers, bleeding, or holes in the stomach or intestine. These problems may develop at any time during treatment, may happen without warning symptoms, and may cause death.

I wonder how many take these dangerous tablets? I'm surprised that they are actually off the shelf drugs
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 15, 2021, 11:31:06 AM
Professor Medley from the SAGE group is saying today that a likely event is hospitals becoming overwhelmed within a month because of Omicron. While it's unpredictable that event is one of the most likely to happen. That means that all other routine treatments, from non serious to extremely serious get put on the back burner. That's why it's extremely important for people to get vaccinated. I can see another lockdown coming up to try to mitigate against the worst possible outcomes. The numbers are doubling every couple of days and even if it may not be as lethal as delta there'll still be huge numbers getting very sick.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on December 15, 2021, 11:43:31 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2021, 10:13:25 AM
Quote from: grounded on December 15, 2021, 10:03:45 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 09:46:42 AM
Quote from: grounded on December 15, 2021, 09:41:30 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 09:35:05 AM
medical science ok pre covid, medical science not OK post covid...

handwashing OK, mask wearing not OK despite the same medical professional recommending both..

bringing politics into medical science is wholly wrong and increasing happening to justify not following medical advice

Big pharma are well regulated, regulators have gatekeeper and supervision roles and the skulls post just shows that the how the regulator works... you would be hard pushed to find an industry  above reproach.. clothing and footwear and toy making with sweat shops, Facebook and Google with personal data, insurance industry with dual pricing etc, financial industry etc.

Nothing and no industry is above reproach thats the entire point of debating this.

You only have to look at the Tamiflu scandal back during Swine Flu to know this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2014/apr/10/tamiflu-saga-drug-trials-big-pharma

it's being presented as such and that why we have regulators and safeguards in place... just because there was an issue before doesn't mean there will be again... that's the logical of someone posting about regulator fines...

Not sure if you read the article. At pretty much every level Roche tried to prevent the truth coming out about Tamiflu. All perfectly within the law. 
       It wasnt government agencies/regulatory bodies that brought them to account.
        One paediatrician left a comment on an online forum under a Tamiflu review by Cochrane. That was enough to set the ball rolling. It might never have come out.
         Billions of taxpayers money wasted worldwide on a drug that would have been of no benefit to swine flu. Worse, potentially millions of people given a drug of with no benefit for their condition and potential serious side effects.
        One of a number of cases (that we know off).
    Thats why people have serious reservations with current covid vaccination programmes and new Covid drugs produced by Pharmaceutical companies.

So basically you think that the vaccine that has been put out has not had any effect or could like this other one you mentioned have serious side effects?

Tamiflu is a drug not a vaccine. It actually is a very useful drug used for specific illnesses in the right instance.
      In the case that i highlighted a major pharmaceutical company Roche effectively misled the regulatory bodies, be that independent or governement led into purchasing and using this drug for a disease that it had no beneficial effect and could have caused some serious side effects. All within the law by the way.
      One fairly low level paediatrician questioned this and it took years for the truth to come out.
      I'm not saying this is the case with the covid vaccine or the newer covid drugs but if you are honest with yourself, it would leave you with a little scepticism of the fundamental motives of multi billion dollar pharmaceutical companies.
      In answer to your question I actually do think the Covid vaccine is definitely of some use in the fight(in specific circumstances for a certain cohort of the population).
         However as i've said from the start(the lancet also downplayed the effectiveness  of 1st generation vaccines before their launch) its usefulness was overplayed and was marketed as the great panacea to end the pandemic.
       This is clearly not the case.  Perhaps with newer generation vaccines and further research this might change. However given the nature of this particulae novel Coronavirus itself i'm not so sure.
     Anyway i'm repeating the same arguments that i and others have used from from earlier posts. Most people have their minds made up one way or another. There is not much point in me rehashing old ground over and over.
     In this instance i believe we should let people make their own minds up and do whats best for themselves and their own families.
     
     
     
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 15, 2021, 12:01:55 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 15, 2021, 11:31:06 AM
Professor Medley from the SAGE group is saying today that a likely event is hospitals becoming overwhelmed within a month because of Omicron. While it's unpredictable that event is one of the most likely to happen. That means that all other routine treatments, from non serious to extremely serious get put on the back burner. That's why it's extremely important for people to get vaccinated. I can see another lockdown coming up to try to mitigate against the worst possible outcomes. The numbers are doubling every couple of days and even if it may not be as lethal as delta there'll still be huge numbers getting very sick.

A disease doubling every two days is dangerous. You might have everything under reasonable control in hospitals and then 4 days later you have 4 times as many and you are overwhelmed. Because people reach hospital 10 days after infection, you can't do anything to stop it once you notice hospital numbers starting to go up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 12:03:01 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 15, 2021, 11:43:31 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2021, 10:13:25 AM
Quote from: grounded on December 15, 2021, 10:03:45 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 09:46:42 AM
Quote from: grounded on December 15, 2021, 09:41:30 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 09:35:05 AM
medical science ok pre covid, medical science not OK post covid...

handwashing OK, mask wearing not OK despite the same medical professional recommending both..

bringing politics into medical science is wholly wrong and increasing happening to justify not following medical advice

Big pharma are well regulated, regulators have gatekeeper and supervision roles and the skulls post just shows that the how the regulator works... you would be hard pushed to find an industry  above reproach.. clothing and footwear and toy making with sweat shops, Facebook and Google with personal data, insurance industry with dual pricing etc, financial industry etc.

Nothing and no industry is above reproach thats the entire point of debating this.

You only have to look at the Tamiflu scandal back during Swine Flu to know this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2014/apr/10/tamiflu-saga-drug-trials-big-pharma

it's being presented as such and that why we have regulators and safeguards in place... just because there was an issue before doesn't mean there will be again... that's the logical of someone posting about regulator fines...

Not sure if you read the article. At pretty much every level Roche tried to prevent the truth coming out about Tamiflu. All perfectly within the law. 
       It wasnt government agencies/regulatory bodies that brought them to account.
        One paediatrician left a comment on an online forum under a Tamiflu review by Cochrane. That was enough to set the ball rolling. It might never have come out.
         Billions of taxpayers money wasted worldwide on a drug that would have been of no benefit to swine flu. Worse, potentially millions of people given a drug of with no benefit for their condition and potential serious side effects.
        One of a number of cases (that we know off).
    Thats why people have serious reservations with current covid vaccination programmes and new Covid drugs produced by Pharmaceutical companies.

So basically you think that the vaccine that has been put out has not had any effect or could like this other one you mentioned have serious side effects?

Tamiflu is a drug not a vaccine. It actually is a very useful drug used for specific illnesses in the right instance.
      In the case that i highlighted a major pharmaceutical company Roche effectively misled the regulatory bodies be that independent or governement led into purchasing and using this drug for a discease that it had no beneficial effect and could have caused some serious side edfects. All within the law by the way.
      One fairly low level paediatrician questioned this and it took years for the truth to come out.
      I'm not saying this is the case with the covid vaccine or the newer covid drugs but if you are honest with yourself, it would leave you with a little scepticism with multi billion dollar pharmaceutical companies.
      In answer to your question I actually do think the Covid vaccine is definitely of some use in the fight(in specific circumstances for a certain cohort of the population).
         However as i've said from the start(the lancet also downplayed the effectiveness  of 1st generation vaccines before their launch) its usefulness was overplayed and was marketed as the great panacea to end the pandemic.
       This is clearly not the case.  Perhaps with newer generation vaccines and further research this might change. However given the nature of this Coronavirus itself i'm not so sure.
     Anyway i'm repeating the same arguments that i and others have used from from earlier posts. Most people have their minds made up one way or another. There is not much point in me rehashing old ground over and over.
     In this instance let them make their own minds up and do whats best for themselves and their own families.
     
     
   

I have no idea what point your are making to be honest or your arguments.. tamiflu  isn't unique and I listed a number of other industries which have had similar enough issues with disclosure etc.  I am curious if you take any medicine at all given what you posted...

I thought I read there was a whistle-blower involved in tamiflu which is part of a regulatory framework but might be mistaken.

I also think you created a false narrative around the expectations of Covid vaccine... there was hopes but also acknowledgement of new variants etc. could change their impact.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on December 15, 2021, 12:14:19 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 12:03:01 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 15, 2021, 11:43:31 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 15, 2021, 10:13:25 AM
Quote from: grounded on December 15, 2021, 10:03:45 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 09:46:42 AM
Quote from: grounded on December 15, 2021, 09:41:30 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 09:35:05 AM
medical science ok pre covid, medical science not OK post covid...

handwashing OK, mask wearing not OK despite the same medical professional recommending both..

bringing politics into medical science is wholly wrong and increasing happening to justify not following medical advice

Big pharma are well regulated, regulators have gatekeeper and supervision roles and the skulls post just shows that the how the regulator works... you would be hard pushed to find an industry  above reproach.. clothing and footwear and toy making with sweat shops, Facebook and Google with personal data, insurance industry with dual pricing etc, financial industry etc.

Nothing and no industry is above reproach thats the entire point of debating this.

You only have to look at the Tamiflu scandal back during Swine Flu to know this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2014/apr/10/tamiflu-saga-drug-trials-big-pharma

it's being presented as such and that why we have regulators and safeguards in place... just because there was an issue before doesn't mean there will be again... that's the logical of someone posting about regulator fines...

Not sure if you read the article. At pretty much every level Roche tried to prevent the truth coming out about Tamiflu. All perfectly within the law. 
       It wasnt government agencies/regulatory bodies that brought them to account.
        One paediatrician left a comment on an online forum under a Tamiflu review by Cochrane. That was enough to set the ball rolling. It might never have come out.
         Billions of taxpayers money wasted worldwide on a drug that would have been of no benefit to swine flu. Worse, potentially millions of people given a drug of with no benefit for their condition and potential serious side effects.
        One of a number of cases (that we know off).
    Thats why people have serious reservations with current covid vaccination programmes and new Covid drugs produced by Pharmaceutical companies.

So basically you think that the vaccine that has been put out has not had any effect or could like this other one you mentioned have serious side effects?

Tamiflu is a drug not a vaccine. It actually is a very useful drug used for specific illnesses in the right instance.
      In the case that i highlighted a major pharmaceutical company Roche effectively misled the regulatory bodies be that independent or governement led into purchasing and using this drug for a discease that it had no beneficial effect and could have caused some serious side edfects. All within the law by the way.
      One fairly low level paediatrician questioned this and it took years for the truth to come out.
      I'm not saying this is the case with the covid vaccine or the newer covid drugs but if you are honest with yourself, it would leave you with a little scepticism with multi billion dollar pharmaceutical companies.
      In answer to your question I actually do think the Covid vaccine is definitely of some use in the fight(in specific circumstances for a certain cohort of the population).
         However as i've said from the start(the lancet also downplayed the effectiveness  of 1st generation vaccines before their launch) its usefulness was overplayed and was marketed as the great panacea to end the pandemic.
       This is clearly not the case.  Perhaps with newer generation vaccines and further research this might change. However given the nature of this Coronavirus itself i'm not so sure.
     Anyway i'm repeating the same arguments that i and others have used from from earlier posts. Most people have their minds made up one way or another. There is not much point in me rehashing old ground over and over.
     In this instance let them make their own minds up and do whats best for themselves and their own families.
     
     
   

I have no idea what point your are making to be honest or your arguments.. tamiflu  isn't unique and I listed a number of other industries which have had similar enough issues with disclosure etc.  I am curious if you take any medicine at all given what you posted...

I thought I read there was a whistle-blower involved in tamiflu which is part of a regulatory framework but might be mistaken.

I also think you created a false narrative around the expectations of Covid vaccine... there was hopes but also acknowledgement of new variants etc. could change their impact.

You clearly didnt read the article as the facts re: Tamiflu are contained in that.
        Anyway, we are going round in circles. Do whatever you feel necessary to keep your family safe and i will do the same. Thanks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 15, 2021, 12:29:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2021, 08:19:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on December 15, 2021, 01:47:27 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2021, 12:06:45 AM
I don't need experts on either side to tell me that we don't need to vaccinate wains. Nobody does, there is no evidence or compelling argument to support their vaccination

What point is that?

That he knows better than any experts?

I didn't claim i did. Experts are not calling for mass vaccinations of children , offering but not mandating

They are calling for it in the states.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 12:33:33 PM
I read the article but also didn't limited myself to one article and read some others... which referenced a whistler blower.

it not circles for me as I don't understand your point of view... if you point is to be skeptical of stuff, I am than asking how you live your life as every industry has examples like tamiflu so how do you decide what to be skeptical of and what  not be skeptical off..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 01:14:58 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 15, 2021, 01:07:05 PM
Quote from: Last Man on December 15, 2021, 09:39:50 AM
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02243-1/fulltext

More science folks, interesting read.

I posted this a week ago I think, very few on here took the time to read it. They want to blame someone for the covid increase rather than except they to can infect people to when they are vaccinated. Another twist in the 'we are all in together' logo

it's not news that people who are vaccinated can still pass on covid to others...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on December 15, 2021, 01:24:02 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 01:14:58 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 15, 2021, 01:07:05 PM
Quote from: Last Man on December 15, 2021, 09:39:50 AM
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02243-1/fulltext

More science folks, interesting read.

I posted this a week ago I think, very few on here took the time to read it. They want to blame someone for the covid increase rather than except they to can infect people to when they are vaccinated. Another twist in the 'we are all in together' logo

it's not news that people who are vaccinated can still pass on covid to others...

Why would you even be bothered to answer this fool.

Makes a completely nonsense point that has already been refuted dozens of times on this thread,  doesn't know the difference between accept and except, but still feels qualified to voice his opinion on complex medical issues.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 01:34:01 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on December 15, 2021, 01:24:02 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 01:14:58 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 15, 2021, 01:07:05 PM
Quote from: Last Man on December 15, 2021, 09:39:50 AM
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02243-1/fulltext

More science folks, interesting read.

I posted this a week ago I think, very few on here took the time to read it. They want to blame someone for the covid increase rather than except they to can infect people to when they are vaccinated. Another twist in the 'we are all in together' logo

it's not news that people who are vaccinated can still pass on covid to others...

Why would you even be bothered to answer this fool.

Makes a completely nonsense point that has already been refuted dozens of times on this thread,  doesn't know the difference between accept and except, but still feels qualified to voice his opinion on complex medical issues.

I know, and i said previously I wouldn't engage with Angelo again but I asked the other person for a layman version of the link as I thought I must be missing something in it (I didn't ask angelo for this when he posted) so couldn't help myself responding this time... more fool me..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 01:56:02 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 15, 2021, 01:50:41 PM
Listen to these two self proclaimed knowers of everything. i have met some As' in my time and you two are in that company. Your more than welcome not to reply to my posts. Your so precious with yourselves.

I've never met anyone as thick as you I have to be honest... I've tried to avoid using insulting language about posters as posters may have an online persona but in your case even if this is just a persona you appear lacking in any sort of cop on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 02:36:25 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 15, 2021, 02:17:36 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 01:56:02 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 15, 2021, 01:50:41 PM
Listen to these two self proclaimed knowers of everything. i have met some As' in my time and you two are in that company. Your more than welcome not to reply to my posts. Your so precious with yourselves.

I've never met anyone as thick as you I have to be honest... I've tried to avoid using insulting language about posters as posters may have an online persona but in your case even if this is just a persona you appear lacking in any sort of cop on.

Hows that love in with yourself going. A song that has popped into my head when reading your many posts are 'Lord its hard to be humble when your prefect in every way'

an example of you lack of understanding.. I've never claimed to be perfect or anything like that but I would consider myself humble..

.I try to offer my opinion as opinion not fact, and try and understand others points of views,(I watched some of those Dr John videos etc.) I've challenged myself plenty on covid related issues as I am sure many others have done. It is not all black and white but when I've weighted up everything i make an informed decision.

I try and not hold contradictory positions regardless of my own internal bias towards believing one source over another... I see loads of contradictory positions from people opposed to masks, vaccines or those generally to the right policatially. (excluding US politics here as that whole system is awful)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 15, 2021, 03:34:42 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 15, 2021, 02:17:36 PMHows that love in with yourself going. A song that has popped into my head when reading your many posts are 'Lord its hard to be humble when your prefect in every way'

A senior prefect?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2021, 06:30:23 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 15, 2021, 01:50:41 PM
Listen to these two self proclaimed knowers of everything. i have met some As' in my time and you two are in that company. Your more than welcome not to reply to my posts. Your so precious with yourselves.
Nobody here with their head screwed on claims to know everything, or anywhere remotely in the same galaxy as everything. That's why they listen to the experts. And the experts are telling us this is deadly serious. And to be vaccinated, and boosted if you're already vaccinated.

It is you who thinks you know everything.

You know less than the square root of SFA.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on December 15, 2021, 06:30:35 PM
Lads, I honestly think if you've any respect for our friends who work in hospitals, and your friends and family, it's time to do your bit. Even if you don't believe in some of the stuff, suck it up a bit just in case it's as bad as it's predicted.  It's that simple, do your bit.  Hopefully the gov will support the hospitality sector financially.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 15, 2021, 07:02:34 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on December 15, 2021, 06:30:35 PM
Lads, I honestly think if you've any respect for our friends who work in hospitals, and your friends and family, it's time to do your bit. Even if you don't believe in some of the stuff, suck it up a bit just in case it's as bad as it's predicted.  It's that simple, do your bit.  Hopefully the gov will support the hospitality sector financially.

What staggers me are those people who have doubts about taking the vaccine because of a fear of the long term effects. They argue there isn't enough evidence. These current vaccines have been trialled on way more people than any other vaccines in history. There is more data around on these vaccines at this stage than most vaccines ever used. What's incredible is that none of those people seem to have any doubts about the long term effects of getting Covid. It's a brand new virus and doctors are discovering things all the time about the long term effects to the organs of the body that Covid is doing even in seemingly mild cases. I've read recently about people who had extremely mild Covid months ago but now have serious heart problems and I've also read that lots of people with mild Covid have had damage done to the brain (shown up in MRI scans). These are young, fit people who've been left with terrible legacies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2021, 07:16:29 PM
Can we start a Flu thread instead. Getting wee bit boring
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 07:19:11 PM
there is a flu thread already.. just search for it...

lenny what is also surprising that a lot of people against the vaccine, happily promote other drugs for covid that haven't gone through the same trials and peer reviews that vaccines have.. one of the contradictions I was referring to in an earlier post.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on December 15, 2021, 07:35:56 PM
Omicron came out of South Africa which has had a huge HIV problem for decades. Scientists think it may have developed in the body of someone with HIV. Vaccines based on the Wuhan variant have around 70% effectiveness against Omicron.  This is why Boosters are deemed necessary.  South Africa is a Covid whorehouse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2021, 07:39:10 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 07:19:11 PM
there is a flu thread already.. just search for it...

lenny what is also surprising that a lot of people against the vaccine, happily promote other drugs for covid that haven't gone through the same trials and peer reviews that vaccines have.. one of the contradictions I was referring to in an earlier post.

Full of anti vaxxers versus vaxxers is it ,?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 07:51:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 15, 2021, 07:39:10 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 07:19:11 PM
there is a flu thread already.. just search for it...

lenny what is also surprising that a lot of people against the vaccine, happily promote other drugs for covid that haven't gone through the same trials and peer reviews that vaccines have.. one of the contradictions I was referring to in an earlier post.

Full of anti vaxxers versus vaxxers is it ,?

pretty much from memory.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on December 15, 2021, 08:12:14 PM
A bit of French

https://www.lemonde.fr/planete/article/2021/12/15/covid-19-le-vaccin-de-johnson-amp-johnson-peut-etre-utilise-pour-le-rappel-chez-les-adultes_6106163_3244.htmlPlus d'options

La directrice du Centre européen de prévention et de contrôle des maladies (ECDC) a donné une allocution alarmiste, mercredi 15 décembre, au sujet du variant Omicron. « Dans la situation actuelle, la vaccination seule ne nous permettra pas d'empêcher [son] impact

We cannot depend on vaccines against Omicron. This is #seniorhurling
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 15, 2021, 08:24:28 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 07:19:11 PM
there is a flu thread already.. just search for it...

lenny what is also surprising that a lot of people against the vaccine, happily promote other drugs for covid that haven't gone through the same trials and peer reviews that vaccines have.. one of the contradictions I was referring to in an earlier post.

Totally agree. There are some shady characters promoting ivermectin, hydroxochloriquine along with other medicines and supplements.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on December 15, 2021, 08:46:51 PM
Not weird at all that in western countries with all their research universities & hospitals, there is yet to be no early home treatment protocols being promoted by the powers that be. Just go home and see how you go and only come to hospital when the disease has been given time to take root without intervention. Not weird at all. Vaccines, vaccines vaccines is the ONLY way.

This makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 08:54:59 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 15, 2021, 08:46:51 PM
Not weird at all that in western countries with all their research universities & hospitals, there is yet to be no early home treatment protocols being promoted by the powers that be. Just go home and see how you go and only come to hospital when the disease has been given time to take root without intervention. Not weird at all. Vaccines, vaccines vaccines is the ONLY way.

This makes no sense to me.

do you mean these

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/covid19/symptoms/treat-symptoms-home/

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: DuffleKing on December 15, 2021, 09:06:41 PM

With respect, that's not treatment of a medical condition. There are a number of effective drug treatments which takes the edge off covid.

https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(20)30673-2/fulltext

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 09:17:01 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 15, 2021, 09:06:41 PM

With respect, that's not treatment of a medical condition. There are a number of effective drug treatments which takes the edge off covid.

https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(20)30673-2/fulltext

are there equivalents for the flu? before I read more am I right that the link is proposing clinical trials for their suggestions to see if they work rather than clinically proven treatments....

edit: I noted this in the absence of clinical trials and guidelines, with hospitalizations and mortality mounting, it is prudent to deploy treatment for COVID-19 based on pathophysiological principles
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 15, 2021, 09:21:45 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 15, 2021, 08:24:28 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 07:19:11 PM
there is a flu thread already.. just search for it...

lenny what is also surprising that a lot of people against the vaccine, happily promote other drugs for covid that haven't gone through the same trials and peer reviews that vaccines have.. one of the contradictions I was referring to in an earlier post.

Totally agree. There are some shady characters promoting ivermectin, hydroxochloriquine along with other medicines and supplements.
Every single one of them promoting Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine, Alex Jones's patented nanosilver and whatever you're having yourself (don't) is a shameless grifter on the gravy train of publicity whoredom and right wing cash.

Pierre Kory - grifter
Tess Lawrie - grifter
Brett Weinstein - grifter
Peter McCullough - grifter
Joe Rogan - total grifter
John Campbell - has taken the Kool Aid
America's Frontline Doctors - shrieking banshee, democracy hating extreme far right grifters

Everyone else in on the Ivermectin cult is dodgy as fook.

It. Does. Not. Work.





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Louther on December 16, 2021, 04:31:54 PM
I've done all I have been asked, a wife in cold front of this in ICU.

I've heard all the guff of this, that and other. Now we been told to get our Boosters ASAP and restrictions upon restrictions been talked about.

Massive issue. Why? Because they sent weeks and weeks dripping out boosters to high age groups in a failing system. For weeks they debated going the lower age groups. Now they've decided to do this and said a plan will be issued NEXT f**king WEEK that will be rolled out the FOLLOWING f**king WEEK.

Mind boggles. Are NiAC working only 9-5? We hear about the plan going to 7 days a week 7 to 7 but then they say it'll be too late and this new wave will swamp the country before that can take affect.

I've a sleeve up, ready for booster but been told to wait my turn and I'll likely be done in early January.

That's not planning, it's reacting.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 16, 2021, 05:11:43 PM
Got my booster this morning was a looong queue at 9am, but as I'd it booked I avoided most of the waiting. Some operation, lots of staff, in and out in 5 minutes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 16, 2021, 05:29:19 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 16, 2021, 03:13:20 PM
Everyone could do with a laugh 😆

https://twitter.com/thecormacmoore/status/1471146647925231623?s=21 (https://twitter.com/thecormacmoore/status/1471146647925231623?s=21)

Very good, enjoyed that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on December 16, 2021, 10:20:48 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 15, 2021, 08:24:28 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 07:19:11 PM
there is a flu thread already.. just search for it...

lenny what is also surprising that a lot of people against the vaccine, happily promote other drugs for covid that haven't gone through the same trials and peer reviews that vaccines have.. one of the contradictions I was referring to in an earlier post.

Totally agree. There are some shady characters promoting ivermectin, hydroxochloriquine along with other medicines and supplements.

https://www.principletrial.org/

Ivermectin actually is being trialed along with Favipiravir in this University of Oxford clinical study. I'd guess this study( given the credentials ) of those undertaking it, would validate the use or non-use of either drug.
      The Ivermectin portion of the study has now been paused due to supply issues of Ivermectin itself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 16, 2021, 10:46:24 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 16, 2021, 10:20:48 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 15, 2021, 08:24:28 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 07:19:11 PM
there is a flu thread already.. just search for it...

lenny what is also surprising that a lot of people against the vaccine, happily promote other drugs for covid that haven't gone through the same trials and peer reviews that vaccines have.. one of the contradictions I was referring to in an earlier post.

Totally agree. There are some shady characters promoting ivermectin, hydroxochloriquine along with other medicines and supplements.

https://www.principletrial.org/

Ivermectin actually is being trialed along with Favipiravir in this University of Oxford clinical study. I'd guess this study( given the credentials ) of those undertaking it, would validate the use or non-use of either drug.
      The Ivermectin portion of the study has now been paused due to supply issues of Ivermectin itself.

So another trial ivermectin trail. If it hasn't been validated by now, hard to know what this trial would show different.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 16, 2021, 10:49:39 PM
Plus if it hasn't been validated, there's obviously a lack of data to show its usefulness. So why would it not get the same treatment as the vaccine by these people who are so against it. It's nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 16, 2021, 10:59:09 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 16, 2021, 10:49:39 PM
Plus if it hasn't been validated, there's obviously a lack of data to show its usefulness. So why would it not get the same treatment as the vaccine by these people who are so against it. It's nonsense.

The same people are advocating off label use of a drug while calling out big pharma for doing the same  ::)

Also the same crowd are saying what's the harm...... well the FDA and EMA don't want people uncontrollably taking random drugs while nobody understands how it could interact with other prescribed medication. Its one of the reason off label promotion results in hard penalties from the regulators.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 16, 2021, 10:59:57 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 16, 2021, 10:59:09 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 16, 2021, 10:49:39 PM
Plus if it hasn't been validated, there's obviously a lack of data to show its usefulness. So why would it not get the same treatment as the vaccine by these people who are so against it. It's nonsense.

Lots of the same anti vax people are advocating off label use of a drug while calling out big pharma for doing the same  ::)

Also the same crowd are saying what's the harm...... well the FDA and EMA don't want people uncontrollably taking random drugs while nobody understands how it could interact with other prescribed medication. Its one of the reason off label promotion results in hard penalties from the regulators.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on December 16, 2021, 11:02:39 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 16, 2021, 10:46:24 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 16, 2021, 10:20:48 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 15, 2021, 08:24:28 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 07:19:11 PM
there is a flu thread already.. just search for it...

lenny what is also surprising that a lot of people against the vaccine, happily promote other drugs for covid that haven't gone through the same trials and peer reviews that vaccines have.. one of the contradictions I was referring to in an earlier post.

Totally agree. There are some shady characters promoting ivermectin, hydroxochloriquine along with other medicines and supplements.

https://www.principletrial.org/

Ivermectin actually is being trialed along with Favipiravir in this University of Oxford clinical study. I'd guess this study( given the credentials ) of those undertaking it, would validate the use or non-use of either drug.
      The Ivermectin portion of the study has now been paused due to supply issues of Ivermectin itself.

So another trial ivermectin trail. If it hasn't been validated by now, hard to know what this trial would show different.

I'd guess thats the point of the trial.
      In any event, why would a body like the university of oxford sponsored by the department of health uk (among others )carry out such a trial? They must have had some reasons to deem it worthwhile to at least study it.
     The Ivermectin portion of the study is paused due to supply issues of Ivermectin itself so we'll have to wait.
     They are continuing with the Favipiravir portion of the  trial.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 16, 2021, 11:29:38 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 16, 2021, 11:02:39 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 16, 2021, 10:46:24 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 16, 2021, 10:20:48 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 15, 2021, 08:24:28 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 07:19:11 PM
there is a flu thread already.. just search for it...

lenny what is also surprising that a lot of people against the vaccine, happily promote other drugs for covid that haven't gone through the same trials and peer reviews that vaccines have.. one of the contradictions I was referring to in an earlier post.

Totally agree. There are some shady characters promoting ivermectin, hydroxochloriquine along with other medicines and supplements.

https://www.principletrial.org/

Ivermectin actually is being trialed along with Favipiravir in this University of Oxford clinical study. I'd guess this study( given the credentials ) of those undertaking it, would validate the use or non-use of either drug.
      The Ivermectin portion of the study has now been paused due to supply issues of Ivermectin itself.

So another trial ivermectin trail. If it hasn't been validated by now, hard to know what this trial would show different.

I'd guess thats the point of the trial.
      In any event, why would a body like the university of oxford sponsored by the department of health uk (among others )carry out such a trial? They must have had some reasons to deem it worthwhile to at least study it.
     The Ivermectin portion of the study is paused due to supply issues of Ivermectin itself so we'll have to wait.
     They are continuing with the Favipiravir portion of the  trial.

I have no issue with the trial. In fact it would be fantastic if it had a positive outcome.
My issue is with people cheerleading Ivedmectin despite its lack of clinical trial data, and yet calling out issues with the vaccine despite the absolute mountain of data available.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on December 16, 2021, 11:44:03 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 16, 2021, 11:29:38 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 16, 2021, 11:02:39 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 16, 2021, 10:46:24 PM
Quote from: grounded on December 16, 2021, 10:20:48 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 15, 2021, 08:24:28 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 15, 2021, 07:19:11 PM
there is a flu thread already.. just search for it...

lenny what is also surprising that a lot of people against the vaccine, happily promote other drugs for covid that haven't gone through the same trials and peer reviews that vaccines have.. one of the contradictions I was referring to in an earlier post.

Totally agree. There are some shady characters promoting ivermectin, hydroxochloriquine along with other medicines and supplements.

https://www.principletrial.org/

Ivermectin actually is being trialed along with Favipiravir in this University of Oxford clinical study. I'd guess this study( given the credentials ) of those undertaking it, would validate the use or non-use of either drug.
      The Ivermectin portion of the study has now been paused due to supply issues of Ivermectin itself.

So another trial ivermectin trail. If it hasn't been validated by now, hard to know what this trial would show different.

I'd guess thats the point of the trial.
      In any event, why would a body like the university of oxford sponsored by the department of health uk (among others )carry out such a trial? They must have had some reasons to deem it worthwhile to at least study it.
     The Ivermectin portion of the study is paused due to supply issues of Ivermectin itself so we'll have to wait.
     They are continuing with the Favipiravir portion of the  trial.

I have no issue with the trial. In fact it would be fantastic if it had a positive outcome.
My issue is with people cheerleading Ivedmectin despite its lack of clinical trial data, and yet calling out issues with the vaccine despite the absolute mountain of data available.

Fair enough. I've never advocated Ivermectin's use for Covid 19. I merely pointed out an important study currently being undertaken.
       I think it would be in everybody's best interest to see this carried out as soon as possible.
        Given that Merck themselves concluded that the probability of Ivermectin providing a potentially safe and efficacious treatment option for SARS-CoV-2 infection is low,
       You would think they would be very keen to supply this Oxford study with the appropriate supplies of Ivermectin to dispel its use for covid 19 once and for all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on December 17, 2021, 12:08:17 AM
The latest recommendations from nphet is a significant reductions in hospitality hours with a suggested 5pm closing time from next Monday.

Spectators at sporting and live events are also recommended to be kept to very low numbers.

A reduction of numbers attending indoor events, including theatre and cinemas, will also be considered.


What will that 5pm closing time really achieve and could lead to a glut of house parties over the Christmas

Low numbers for indoor events I can somewhat understand but outdoors to revert back to that?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on December 17, 2021, 12:15:39 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 17, 2021, 12:08:17 AM
The latest recommendations from nphet is a significant reductions in hospitality hours with a suggested 5pm closing time from next Monday.

Spectators at sporting and live events are also recommended to be kept to very low numbers.

A reduction of numbers attending indoor events, including theatre and cinemas, will also be considered.


What will that 5pm closing time really achieve and could lead to a glut of house parties over the Christmas

Low numbers for indoor events I can somewhat understand but outdoors to revert back to that?

There's shades of "sure maybe we should say another mass?" In how NPHET respond to situations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ghost on December 17, 2021, 06:37:34 AM
Has there been any findings with regards to how serious the effects of this omicron variant is? I've seen reports online (albeit probably not from the most reliable sources) that although more transmissible the illness is much milder. Is there any truth in this or is it too early to tell?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 07:14:55 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 17, 2021, 12:08:17 AM
The latest recommendations from nphet is a significant reductions in hospitality hours with a suggested 5pm closing time from next Monday.

Spectators at sporting and live events are also recommended to be kept to very low numbers.

A reduction of numbers attending indoor events, including theatre and cinemas, will also be considered.


What will that 5pm closing time really achieve and could lead to a glut of house parties over the Christmas

Low numbers for indoor events I can somewhat understand but outdoors to revert back to that?
What a bunch of arseholes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 07:39:40 AM
Has anyone a link to see how MLA's voted on the vaccine passports in the north?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 17, 2021, 08:05:38 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 07:39:40 AM
Has anyone a link to see how MLA's voted on the vaccine passports in the north?

Why, so you can stand outside their office with a sign saying they're taking away your freedoms?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 17, 2021, 08:07:17 AM
Quote from: Ghost on December 17, 2021, 06:37:34 AM
Has there been any findings with regards to how serious the effects of this omicron variant is? I've seen reports online (albeit probably not from the most reliable sources) that although more transmissible the illness is much milder. Is there any truth in this or is it too early to tell?

South African study out last week found it was more transmissible but "less hazardous in primary infection". Also found it was more likely to cause reinfection than other variants.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 08:09:27 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 17, 2021, 08:05:38 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 07:39:40 AM
Has anyone a link to see how MLA's voted on the vaccine passports in the north?

Why, so you can stand outside their office with a sign saying they're taking away your freedoms?
No but they'll be getting chased from the door come election time!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 08:09:56 AM
Now Conor Murphy going crying to the Brits looking more money. SF are a joke.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 17, 2021, 08:26:21 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 08:09:27 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 17, 2021, 08:05:38 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 07:39:40 AM
Has anyone a link to see how MLA's voted on the vaccine passports in the north?

Why, so you can stand outside their office with a sign saying they're taking away your freedoms?
No but they'll be getting chased from the door come election time!!

DUP it is for you so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 17, 2021, 08:47:13 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 08:09:27 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 17, 2021, 08:05:38 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 07:39:40 AM
Has anyone a link to see how MLA's voted on the vaccine passports in the north?

Why, so you can stand outside their office with a sign saying they're taking away your freedoms?
No but they'll be getting chased from the door come election time!!

DUP and TUV. That's whose side you're on in this. Congratulations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on December 17, 2021, 01:56:19 PM
This pandemic is starting to push us to breakiung point. We are all getting towards triple vaccinated and yet King Tony (infamously of the smear scandal debacle) will decree we should have no joy in life anymore. We (90% plus)have done everything that's been asked, time is up. We need to live our lives, come what may. I don't see the alternative other than going and living in a cave somewhere for the rest of your days. Time for our politicians to lead the country and wrestle back control from Nephet's narrow view point. I have basically decided this morning I will not be listening to one more news program, commuting radio etc as this shit is starting to eat away at me and I am going to do my best to stop this "bad news sells" vicious circle we are caught up in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 02:07:28 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 17, 2021, 01:56:19 PM
This pandemic is starting to push us to breakiung point. We are all getting towards triple vaccinated and yet King Tony (infamously of the smear scandal debacle) will decree we should have no joy in life anymore. We (90% plus)have done everything that's been asked, time is up. We need to live our lives, come what may. I don't see the alternative other than going and living in a cave somewhere for the rest of your days. Time for our politicians to lead the country and wrestle back control from Nephet's narrow view point. I have basically decided this morning I will not be listening to one more news program, commuting radio etc as this shit is starting to eat away at me and I am going to do my best to stop this "bad news sells" vicious circle we are caught up in.
How that sc**bag is not in jail over that is beyond me
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 02:09:55 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 17, 2021, 08:47:13 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 08:09:27 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 17, 2021, 08:05:38 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 07:39:40 AM
Has anyone a link to see how MLA's voted on the vaccine passports in the north?

Why, so you can stand outside their office with a sign saying they're taking away your freedoms?
No but they'll be getting chased from the door come election time!!

DUP and TUV. That's whose side you're on in this. Congratulations.
Aontu will be getting my vote by the looks of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2021, 02:13:14 PM
just a little over exaggerated!!!... if you have being listening to the news and still don't understand the role of NPHET and the government probably best to stop watching it..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 02:25:30 PM
Anyone listen to joe rogans podcast with dr Peter McCullough ?
I thought it was interesting and good to hear a different opinion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on December 17, 2021, 02:55:53 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 17, 2021, 01:56:19 PM
This pandemic is starting to push us to breakiung point. We are all getting towards triple vaccinated and yet King Tony (infamously of the smear scandal debacle) will decree we should have no joy in life anymore. We (90% plus)have done everything that's been asked, time is up. We need to live our lives, come what may. I don't see the alternative other than going and living in a cave somewhere for the rest of your days. Time for our politicians to lead the country and wrestle back control from Nephet's narrow view point. I have basically decided this morning I will not be listening to one more news program, commuting radio etc as this shit is starting to eat away at me and I am going to do my best to stop this "bad news sells" vicious circle we are caught up in.

ignore the  news its best thing to do for mental health switch off nolan and crawley
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: screenexile on December 17, 2021, 03:06:06 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 17, 2021, 02:59:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 02:25:30 PM
Anyone listen to joe rogans podcast with dr Peter McCullough ?
I thought it was interesting and good to hear a different opinion.

Thats beneath a few on here Gmac, a different opinion to look down their noses at.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/joe-rogan-covid-podcast-doctor-b1977603.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on December 17, 2021, 03:15:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 07:14:55 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 17, 2021, 12:08:17 AM
The latest recommendations from nphet is a significant reductions in hospitality hours with a suggested 5pm closing time from next Monday.

Spectators at sporting and live events are also recommended to be kept to very low numbers.

A reduction of numbers attending indoor events, including theatre and cinemas, will also be considered.


What will that 5pm closing time really achieve and could lead to a glut of house parties over the Christmas

Low numbers for indoor events I can somewhat understand but outdoors to revert back to that?
What a bunch of arseholes.

+1

do they really think that people will go home at 5pm.
it finally appears that some of the politicans have the balls to publicly say enough is enough.
lets see does that manifest itself to a vote challenge
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 17, 2021, 03:40:36 PM
Ya want public health advice... you get public health advice.
Not populism or what we want to hear.
Govt's job to balance that with other things and come up with the final decision.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 03:52:34 PM
Quote from: joemamas on December 17, 2021, 03:15:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 07:14:55 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 17, 2021, 12:08:17 AM
The latest recommendations from nphet is a significant reductions in hospitality hours with a suggested 5pm closing time from next Monday.

Spectators at sporting and live events are also recommended to be kept to very low numbers.

A reduction of numbers attending indoor events, including theatre and cinemas, will also be considered.


What will that 5pm closing time really achieve and could lead to a glut of house parties over the Christmas

Low numbers for indoor events I can somewhat understand but outdoors to revert back to that?
What a bunch of arseholes.

+1

do they really think that people will go home at 5pm.
it finally appears that some of the politicans have the balls to publicly say enough is enough.
lets see does that manifest itself to a vote challenge
at least if you let people stay out to a normal time you have some hope of mask wearing or social distancing or whatever else in the pub and you are giving businesses a fair shout at surviving. This way you're killing businesses except off licences because people will just havr parties etc with 0 chance of mask wearing or social distancing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dec on December 17, 2021, 04:21:11 PM
Titanic effort to vaccinate thousands a day in Belfast

https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2021/1216/1267202-vaccination-northern-ireland/

Interesting choice of headline
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 17, 2021, 04:53:07 PM
Haven't time? But plenty of time to post on here? 🤔
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on December 17, 2021, 04:54:16 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2021, 02:13:14 PM
just a little over exaggerated!!!... if you have being listening to the news and still don't understand the role of NPHET and the government probably best to stop watching it..

I know their role and remit but do Nephet know it. Do they f**k.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2021, 05:02:38 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 17, 2021, 04:54:16 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2021, 02:13:14 PM
just a little over exaggerated!!!... if you have being listening to the news and still don't understand the role of NPHET and the government probably best to stop watching it..

I know their role and remit but do Nephet know it. Do they f**k.

care to explain how you know it but Nphet don't??? What exactly  in the TOR do they not know..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: dec on December 17, 2021, 05:04:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 02:25:30 PM
Anyone listen to joe rogans podcast with dr Peter McCullough ?
I thought it was interesting and good to hear a different opinion.

Is there any reason we should listen to Dr Peter McCullough other than him having "a different opinion"? There are plenty of "different opinions" available, however many of them are different from reality.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 17, 2021, 05:05:33 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 03:52:34 PM
Quote from: joemamas on December 17, 2021, 03:15:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 07:14:55 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 17, 2021, 12:08:17 AM
The latest recommendations from nphet is a significant reductions in hospitality hours with a suggested 5pm closing time from next Monday.

Spectators at sporting and live events are also recommended to be kept to very low numbers.

A reduction of numbers attending indoor events, including theatre and cinemas, will also be considered.


What will that 5pm closing time really achieve and could lead to a glut of house parties over the Christmas

Low numbers for indoor events I can somewhat understand but outdoors to revert back to that?
What a bunch of arseholes.

+1

do they really think that people will go home at 5pm.
it finally appears that some of the politicans have the balls to publicly say enough is enough.
lets see does that manifest itself to a vote challenge
at least if you let people stay out to a normal time you have some hope of mask wearing or social distancing or whatever else in the pub and you are giving businesses a fair shout at surviving. This way you're killing businesses except off licences because people will just havr parties etc with 0 chance of mask wearing or social distancing.

Once the rules are set most people will adhere to them. Giving people options to stay out late but telling them something different only confuses the issue. There will be a small number who go ahead with house parties but the vast majority won't bother and will try to stay safe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 17, 2021, 05:10:42 PM
Responsible adults will be responsible and do the right thing.
The usual minority of stupid eejits will act like the irresponsible childish fn eejits that they are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 05:13:42 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 17, 2021, 05:05:33 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 03:52:34 PM
Quote from: joemamas on December 17, 2021, 03:15:24 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 07:14:55 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 17, 2021, 12:08:17 AM
The latest recommendations from nphet is a significant reductions in hospitality hours with a suggested 5pm closing time from next Monday.

Spectators at sporting and live events are also recommended to be kept to very low numbers.

A reduction of numbers attending indoor events, including theatre and cinemas, will also be considered.


What will that 5pm closing time really achieve and could lead to a glut of house parties over the Christmas

Low numbers for indoor events I can somewhat understand but outdoors to revert back to that?
What a bunch of arseholes.

+1

do they really think that people will go home at 5pm.
it finally appears that some of the politicans have the balls to publicly say enough is enough.
lets see does that manifest itself to a vote challenge
at least if you let people stay out to a normal time you have some hope of mask wearing or social distancing or whatever else in the pub and you are giving businesses a fair shout at surviving. This way you're killing businesses except off licences because people will just havr parties etc with 0 chance of mask wearing or social distancing.

Once the rules are set most people will adhere to them. Giving people options to stay out late but telling them something different only confuses the issue. There will be a small number who go ahead with house parties but the vast majority won't bother and will try to stay safe.
People are gonna spend Christmas in the house twiddling their thumbs? Hmm can't see it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: rodney trotter on December 17, 2021, 05:21:56 PM
They are going with 8pm instead of 5.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 05:25:28 PM
Quote from: dec on December 17, 2021, 05:04:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 02:25:30 PM
Anyone listen to joe rogans podcast with dr Peter McCullough ?
I thought it was interesting and good to hear a different opinion.

Is there any reason we should listen to Dr Peter McCullough other than him having "a different opinion"? There are plenty of "different opinions" available, however many of them are different from reality.
do what you want, you rather listen to the experts who told you 2 weeks to flatten the curve
Take 2 shots no 3 I mean 4 , stay at home and do nothing until you can't breathe anymore then go to the emergency room ,Wear masks outside , wait 75 years until vaccine approval papers released  ,
You listen to Sanjay Gupta if you want. I asked who listened if you didn't your opinion doesn't matter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2021, 05:27:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 05:25:28 PM
Quote from: dec on December 17, 2021, 05:04:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 02:25:30 PM
Anyone listen to joe rogans podcast with dr Peter McCullough ?
I thought it was interesting and good to hear a different opinion.

Is there any reason we should listen to Dr Peter McCullough other than him having "a different opinion"? There are plenty of "different opinions" available, however many of them are different from reality.
do what you want, you rather listen to the experts who told you 2 weeks to flatten the curve
Take 2 shots no 3 I mean 4 , stay at home and do nothing until you can't breathe anymore then go to the emergency room ,Wear masks outside , wait 75 years until vaccine approval papers released  ,
You listen to Sanjay Gupta if you want. I asked who listened if you didn't your opinion doesn't matter.

false narratives...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on December 17, 2021, 05:43:15 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on December 17, 2021, 05:21:56 PM
They are going with 8pm instead of 5.

Like that makes much of a difference?  Plenty will still be forced to closed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 17, 2021, 05:43:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 05:25:28 PM
Quote from: dec on December 17, 2021, 05:04:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 02:25:30 PM
Anyone listen to joe rogans podcast with dr Peter McCullough ?
I thought it was interesting and good to hear a different opinion.

Is there any reason we should listen to Dr Peter McCullough other than him having "a different opinion"? There are plenty of "different opinions" available, however many of them are different from reality.
do what you want, you rather listen to the experts who told you 2 weeks to flatten the curve
Take 2 shots no 3 I mean 4 , stay at home and do nothing until you can't breathe anymore then go to the emergency room ,Wear masks outside , wait 75 years until vaccine approval papers released  ,
You listen to Sanjay Gupta if you want. I asked who listened if you didn't your opinion doesn't matter.

Ok, so what's the jist of what McCullough is saying?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on December 17, 2021, 05:43:37 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2021, 05:02:38 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 17, 2021, 04:54:16 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2021, 02:13:14 PM
just a little over exaggerated!!!... if you have being listening to the news and still don't understand the role of NPHET and the government probably best to stop watching it..

I know their role and remit but do Nephet know it. Do they f**k.

care to explain how you know it but Nphet don't??? What exactly  in the TOR do they not know..

Yeh leaking information to media before they tell government therefore making it impossible for government to make a fair fully informed decision (based on input from other stakeholders) is not in their remit. Tony covering up smear scandal also not in their remit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2021, 05:59:33 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 17, 2021, 05:43:37 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2021, 05:02:38 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 17, 2021, 04:54:16 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2021, 02:13:14 PM
just a little over exaggerated!!!... if you have being listening to the news and still don't understand the role of NPHET and the government probably best to stop watching it..

I know their role and remit but do Nephet know it. Do they f**k.

care to explain how you know it but Nphet don't??? What exactly  in the TOR do they not know..

Yeh leaking information to media before they tell government therefore making it impossible for government to make a fair fully informed decision (based on input from other stakeholders) is not in their remit. Tony covering up smear scandal also not in their remit.

NPHET for dealing with covid established 27th January 2020 so their TOR has nothing to do with the smear scandal...

How does it make it impossible for government to make a fair fully informed decision if there are leaks or not... the information from NPHET remains the same...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 17, 2021, 06:02:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2021, 05:10:42 PM
Responsible adults will be responsible and do the right thing.
The usual minority of stupid eejits will act like the irresponsible childish fn eejits that they are.
Lol. You enjoy your Christmas maybe have a pint and relax chief.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 06:06:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2021, 05:43:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 05:25:28 PM
Quote from: dec on December 17, 2021, 05:04:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 02:25:30 PM
Anyone listen to joe rogans podcast with dr Peter McCullough ?
I thought it was interesting and good to hear a different opinion.

Is there any reason we should listen to Dr Peter McCullough other than him having "a different opinion"? There are plenty of "different opinions" available, however many of them are different from reality.
do what you want, you rather listen to the experts who told you 2 weeks to flatten the curve
Take 2 shots no 3 I mean 4 , stay at home and do nothing until you can't breathe anymore then go to the emergency room ,Wear masks outside , wait 75 years until vaccine approval papers released  ,
You listen to Sanjay Gupta if you want. I asked who listened if you didn't your opinion doesn't matter.

Ok, so what's the jist of what McCullough is saying?
listen to it yourself j70 ,I'm not into vaccine conspiracy theories but I do believe very little was done and is still being done to help cure people when they get it at an early stage , he also said fear paralyzed a lot of doctors at the start into inaction . It's a good listen I don't agree with all of it but I don't dismiss it out of hand like some  "experts " on here do .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2021, 06:31:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 06:06:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2021, 05:43:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 05:25:28 PM
Quote from: dec on December 17, 2021, 05:04:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 02:25:30 PM
Anyone listen to joe rogans podcast with dr Peter McCullough ?
I thought it was interesting and good to hear a different opinion.

Is there any reason we should listen to Dr Peter McCullough other than him having "a different opinion"? There are plenty of "different opinions" available, however many of them are different from reality.
do what you want, you rather listen to the experts who told you 2 weeks to flatten the curve
Take 2 shots no 3 I mean 4 , stay at home and do nothing until you can't breathe anymore then go to the emergency room ,Wear masks outside , wait 75 years until vaccine approval papers released  ,
You listen to Sanjay Gupta if you want. I asked who listened if you didn't your opinion doesn't matter.

Ok, so what's the jist of what McCullough is saying?
listen to it yourself j70 ,I'm not into vaccine conspiracy theories but I do believe very little was done and is still being done to help cure people when they get it at an early stage , he also said fear paralyzed a lot of doctors at the start into inaction . It's a good listen I don't agree with all of it but I don't dismiss it out of hand like some  "experts " on here do .

One thing I'll say is that getting a GP to answer tye phone has been very very frustrating
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 17, 2021, 06:34:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 06:06:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2021, 05:43:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 05:25:28 PM
Quote from: dec on December 17, 2021, 05:04:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 02:25:30 PM
Anyone listen to joe rogans podcast with dr Peter McCullough ?
I thought it was interesting and good to hear a different opinion.

Is there any reason we should listen to Dr Peter McCullough other than him having "a different opinion"? There are plenty of "different opinions" available, however many of them are different from reality.
do what you want, you rather listen to the experts who told you 2 weeks to flatten the curve
Take 2 shots no 3 I mean 4 , stay at home and do nothing until you can't breathe anymore then go to the emergency room ,Wear masks outside , wait 75 years until vaccine approval papers released  ,
You listen to Sanjay Gupta if you want. I asked who listened if you didn't your opinion doesn't matter.

Ok, so what's the jist of what McCullough is saying?
listen to it yourself j70 ,I'm not into vaccine conspiracy theories but I do believe very little was done and is still being done to help cure people when they get it at an early stage , he also said fear paralyzed a lot of doctors at the start into inaction . It's a good listen I don't agree with all of it but I don't dismiss it out of hand like some  "experts " on here do .

I'll give it a go next week. I've listened to some of Rogan's stuff and found it reasonable. Although when I listened it was because of the guests. Haven't heard his more controversial stuff.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 17, 2021, 07:27:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2021, 06:31:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 06:06:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2021, 05:43:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 05:25:28 PM
Quote from: dec on December 17, 2021, 05:04:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 02:25:30 PM
Anyone listen to joe rogans podcast with dr Peter McCullough ?
I thought it was interesting and good to hear a different opinion.

Is there any reason we should listen to Dr Peter McCullough other than him having "a different opinion"? There are plenty of "different opinions" available, however many of them are different from reality.
do what you want, you rather listen to the experts who told you 2 weeks to flatten the curve
Take 2 shots no 3 I mean 4 , stay at home and do nothing until you can't breathe anymore then go to the emergency room ,Wear masks outside , wait 75 years until vaccine approval papers released  ,
You listen to Sanjay Gupta if you want. I asked who listened if you didn't your opinion doesn't matter.

Ok, so what's the jist of what McCullough is saying?
listen to it yourself j70 ,I'm not into vaccine conspiracy theories but I do believe very little was done and is still being done to help cure people when they get it at an early stage , he also said fear paralyzed a lot of doctors at the start into inaction . It's a good listen I don't agree with all of it but I don't dismiss it out of hand like some  "experts " on here do .

One thing I'll say is that getting a GP to answer tye phone has been very very frustrating

They are answering phones non stop. Demand is unprecedented at the moment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 17, 2021, 07:39:38 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2021, 06:31:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 06:06:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 17, 2021, 05:43:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 05:25:28 PM
Quote from: dec on December 17, 2021, 05:04:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 02:25:30 PM
Anyone listen to joe rogans podcast with dr Peter McCullough ?
I thought it was interesting and good to hear a different opinion.

Is there any reason we should listen to Dr Peter McCullough other than him having "a different opinion"? There are plenty of "different opinions" available, however many of them are different from reality.
do what you want, you rather listen to the experts who told you 2 weeks to flatten the curve
Take 2 shots no 3 I mean 4 , stay at home and do nothing until you can't breathe anymore then go to the emergency room ,Wear masks outside , wait 75 years until vaccine approval papers released  ,
You listen to Sanjay Gupta if you want. I asked who listened if you didn't your opinion doesn't matter.

Ok, so what's the jist of what McCullough is saying?
listen to it yourself j70 ,I'm not into vaccine conspiracy theories but I do believe very little was done and is still being done to help cure people when they get it at an early stage , he also said fear paralyzed a lot of doctors at the start into inaction . It's a good listen I don't agree with all of it but I don't dismiss it out of hand like some  "experts " on here do .

One thing I'll say is that getting a GP to answer tye phone has been very very frustrating

Demand is definitely unprecedented, but there's very few Health Centres in Derry for example that haven't lost staff in the last wee while. Admin staff are literally walking out the door without other work secured as they cannot take the abuse from patients. On top of that you've staff (admin and health professionals) off isolating. It's an awful environment for them to be working in at the minute.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 17, 2021, 07:41:16 PM
I work in it myself. It's got really nasty this last few months.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on December 17, 2021, 07:49:54 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2021, 05:59:33 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 17, 2021, 05:43:37 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2021, 05:02:38 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 17, 2021, 04:54:16 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2021, 02:13:14 PM
just a little over exaggerated!!!... if you have being listening to the news and still don't understand the role of NPHET and the government probably best to stop watching it..

I know their role and remit but do Nephet know it. Do they f**k.

care to explain how you know it but Nphet don't??? What exactly  in the TOR do they not know..

Yeh leaking information to media before they tell government therefore making it impossible for government to make a fair fully informed decision (based on input from other stakeholders) is not in their remit. Tony covering up smear scandal also not in their remit.

NPHET for dealing with covid established 27th January 2020 so their TOR has nothing to do with the smear scandal...

How does it make it impossible for government to make a fair fully informed decision if there are leaks or not... the information from NPHET remains the same...

Fair enough on Smear timing but let's not treat Tony as a god who cannot be questioned. He was part of one of the most despicable scandals in the country.

The subject is emotive. Message from any management group needs to be managed. Once stuff is leaked you are fucked. I dont know what you do but if you manage people you know this. The alternative is that it's OK for everyone to go running to the media with stories.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2021, 08:11:10 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 17, 2021, 07:49:54 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2021, 05:59:33 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 17, 2021, 05:43:37 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2021, 05:02:38 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 17, 2021, 04:54:16 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 17, 2021, 02:13:14 PM
just a little over exaggerated!!!... if you have being listening to the news and still don't understand the role of NPHET and the government probably best to stop watching it..

I know their role and remit but do Nephet know it. Do they f**k.

care to explain how you know it but Nphet don't??? What exactly  in the TOR do they not know..

Yeh leaking information to media before they tell government therefore making it impossible for government to make a fair fully informed decision (based on input from other stakeholders) is not in their remit. Tony covering up smear scandal also not in their remit.

NPHET for dealing with covid established 27th January 2020 so their TOR has nothing to do with the smear scandal...

How does it make it impossible for government to make a fair fully informed decision if there are leaks or not... the information from NPHET remains the same...

Fair enough on Smear timing but let's not treat Tony as a god who cannot be questioned. He was part of one of the most despicable scandals in the country.

The subject is emotive. Message from any management group needs to be managed. Once stuff is leaked you are fucked. I dont know what you do but if you manage people you know this. The alternative is that it's OK for everyone to go running to the media with stories.

who is treating Tony as a god? this goes back to my exaggerated point..nobody is and most people understand he is part of NPHET not the sole voice of it.

in this context how is it fucked... NPHET information will be released anyway. ots not ideal but I don't see how it impacts decision making.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 17, 2021, 09:19:50 PM
Bit worrying 1/5 in the Belfast Trust not vaccinated, hard to get the normal person encouraged to get the vaccine then the medical profession is not fully practicing what they preach. Hospitals and Nursing homes who be dealing with the at risk category should have mandatory vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 17, 2021, 09:26:54 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 17, 2021, 09:19:50 PM
Bit worrying 1/5 in the Belfast Trust not vaccinated, hard to get the normal person encouraged to get the vaccine then the medical profession is not fully practicing what they preach. Hospitals and Nursing homes who be dealing with the at risk category should have mandatory vaccine.

Is that 1 in 5 medical professionals within the Belfast Trust or 1 in 5 employees of the Belfast Trust? Huge difference. I work in the health sector and know of 2 nurses and no doctors unvaccinated
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2021, 09:30:56 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 17, 2021, 09:26:54 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 17, 2021, 09:19:50 PM
Bit worrying 1/5 in the Belfast Trust not vaccinated, hard to get the normal person encouraged to get the vaccine then the medical profession is not fully practicing what they preach. Hospitals and Nursing homes who be dealing with the at risk category should have mandatory vaccine.

Is that 1 in 5 medical professionals within the Belfast Trust or 1 in 5 employees of the Belfast Trust? Huge difference. I work in the health sector and know of 2 nurses and no doctors unvaccinated

I know couple doctors who didn't get it , then got covid , then got jabbed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on December 17, 2021, 10:16:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 06:06:36 PM
listen to it yourself j70 ,I'm not into vaccine conspiracy theories but I do believe very little was done and is still being done to help cure people when they get it at an early stage , he also said fear paralyzed a lot of doctors at the start into inaction . It's a good listen I don't agree with all of it but I don't dismiss it out of hand like some  "experts " on here do .

This for me is the main factor which makes me super dubious about the main stream messaging. Potential early treatment protocols were brought forward but these ended up getting squashed super quick by experts and governments and social networks rather than the powers that be super interested to see if there "might" be a positive benefit following these protocols via clinical trials (and then fine tuning them over time). And then theres the lack of day to day focus on suggesting people think about improving their immune health or studies looking at nasal & throat rinsing for example to see if this 'might' reduce the disease risk in the early stages before it drops into the lungs. I think we've missed so many opportunities here to take a better hold of this pandemic.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 17, 2021, 10:33:01 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 17, 2021, 10:16:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 06:06:36 PM
listen to it yourself j70 ,I'm not into vaccine conspiracy theories but I do believe very little was done and is still being done to help cure people when they get it at an early stage , he also said fear paralyzed a lot of doctors at the start into inaction . It's a good listen I don't agree with all of it but I don't dismiss it out of hand like some  "experts " on here do .

This for me is the main factor which makes me super dubious about the main stream messaging. Potential early treatment protocols were brought forward but these ended up getting squashed super quick by experts and governments and social networks rather than the powers that be super interested to see if there "might" be a positive benefit following these protocols via clinical trials (and then fine tuning them over time). And then theres the lack of day to day focus on suggesting people think about improving their immune health or studies looking at nasal & throat rinsing for example to see if this 'might' reduce the disease risk in the early stages before it drops into the lungs. I think we've missed so many opportunities here to take a better hold of this pandemic.

Yeah I'm sure none of the medical experts thought of any of those things.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on December 17, 2021, 11:08:57 PM
Can you recall much talk of those endeavours in the main stream media other than the swift rubbishing of the people trying to promote such things? Has never felt right to me. I'm obviously a man of little faith. Each to their own I say.   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 11:20:57 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 17, 2021, 10:33:01 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 17, 2021, 10:16:41 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 17, 2021, 06:06:36 PM
listen to it yourself j70 ,I'm not into vaccine conspiracy theories but I do believe very little was done and is still being done to help cure people when they get it at an early stage , he also said fear paralyzed a lot of doctors at the start into inaction . It's a good listen I don't agree with all of it but I don't dismiss it out of hand like some  "experts " on here do .

This for me is the main factor which makes me super dubious about the main stream messaging. Potential early treatment protocols were brought forward but these ended up getting squashed super quick by experts and governments and social networks rather than the powers that be super interested to see if there "might" be a positive benefit following these protocols via clinical trials (and then fine tuning them over time). And then theres the lack of day to day focus on suggesting people think about improving their immune health or studies looking at nasal & throat rinsing for example to see if this 'might' reduce the disease risk in the early stages before it drops into the lungs. I think we've missed so many opportunities here to take a better hold of this pandemic.

Yeah I'm sure none of the medical experts thought of any of those things.
if you feel ill get a test if you are i+ isolate for 14 days if your o2 saturation level goes below 90 go to the emergency room , that was it at the start I think it's 10 days isolation or 3 negatives now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 18, 2021, 12:00:04 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2021, 09:30:56 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 17, 2021, 09:26:54 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 17, 2021, 09:19:50 PM
Bit worrying 1/5 in the Belfast Trust not vaccinated, hard to get the normal person encouraged to get the vaccine then the medical profession is not fully practicing what they preach. Hospitals and Nursing homes who be dealing with the at risk category should have mandatory vaccine.

Is that 1 in 5 medical professionals within the Belfast Trust or 1 in 5 employees of the Belfast Trust? Huge difference. I work in the health sector and know of 2 nurses and no doctors unvaccinated

I know couple doctors who didn't get it , then got covid , then got jabbed.

You shouldn't even get a grant to go do medicals school, if you are in fact anti medicine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 18, 2021, 12:53:42 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 18, 2021, 12:00:04 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 17, 2021, 09:30:56 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 17, 2021, 09:26:54 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 17, 2021, 09:19:50 PM
Bit worrying 1/5 in the Belfast Trust not vaccinated, hard to get the normal person encouraged to get the vaccine then the medical profession is not fully practicing what they preach. Hospitals and Nursing homes who be dealing with the at risk category should have mandatory vaccine.

Is that 1 in 5 medical professionals within the Belfast Trust or 1 in 5 employees of the Belfast Trust? Huge difference. I work in the health sector and know of 2 nurses and no doctors unvaccinated

I know couple doctors who didn't get it , then got covid , then got jabbed.

You shouldn't even get a grant to go do medicals school, if you are in fact anti medicine.

Grants stopped in the 80s lad. Even then medicine students didn't do grants
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 18, 2021, 01:53:27 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 18, 2021, 12:53:42 AM
Grants stopped in the 80s lad. Even then medicine students didn't do grants

You can quibble over terminology, but nobody in these islands pays the full cost of medical school.
Perhaps they should give the places to people who believe in medicine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 18, 2021, 07:38:01 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 17, 2021, 11:08:57 PM
Can you recall much talk of those endeavours in the main stream media other than the swift rubbishing of the people trying to promote such things? Has never felt right to me. I'm obviously a man of little faith. Each to their own I say.

Give us a few examples of these miracle cures that the mainstream media have rubbished.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 18, 2021, 09:05:52 AM
Bleach
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 18, 2021, 09:21:55 AM
here is an article from yesterday on BBC (MSM) its hard to rage against stuff that's actually happening so first create a false narrative it makes it easier...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/health-59681571.amp

Also a quick Google will show you some other clinical trials are ongoing... Merck even has one but not Invermectin...

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on December 18, 2021, 10:27:21 AM
No one mentioned miracle cures Len  ::)
Many people are on the fence and just want to hear reasoned perspectives rather than dogma. Public health has been poor on this front

Here's a not entirely unreasonable Rogan/McCullough response video from Dr. Zubin Damania.
https://youtu.be/8pcIbVvHI2c (https://youtu.be/8pcIbVvHI2c)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 18, 2021, 11:01:06 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 18, 2021, 10:27:21 AM
No one mentioned miracle cures Len  ::)
Many people are on the fence and just want to hear reasoned perspectives rather than dogma. Public health has been poor on this front

Here's a not entirely unreasonable Rogan/McCullough response video from Dr. Zubin Damania.
https://youtu.be/8pcIbVvHI2c (https://youtu.be/8pcIbVvHI2c)

McCullough is into conspiracy theory's..  joe rogan is just a podcast hosts...

what does many people on the fence mean exactly... what dogma?  how has public health been poor in the context this is a new virus that speaks very quickly and collapsed health systems in different parts of the world...

can you example the BBC article that talks about early home treatment when you have claim MSM are not reporting on it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on December 18, 2021, 01:03:40 PM
Quotecan you example the BBC article that talks about early home treatment when you have claim MSM are not reporting on it.

Not true

I'm claiming theres been a skew in the reporting over the last 2 years.
Now using panic and fear may very well be considered as an acceptable intentional strategy for public health officials to persuade the majority of the population to do what they consider the right thing. And undermining/silencing/burying other perspectives which places doubt into peoples minds may also be required to keep well meaning public health intentions on track. All I know is, unlike the majority of people, I have an adverse reaction to this messaging. I'm very willing to accept that I could be on the wrong side of history. I'm certain of nothing. Know that I'm keeping an open mind.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on December 18, 2021, 01:18:50 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 18, 2021, 01:03:40 PM
Quotecan you example the BBC article that talks about early home treatment when you have claim MSM are not reporting on it.

Not true

I'm claiming theres been a skew in the reporting over the last 2 years.
Now using panic and fear may very well be considered as an acceptable intentional strategy for public health officials to persuade the majority of the population to do what they consider the right thing. And undermining/silencing/burying other perspectives which places doubt into peoples minds may also be required to keep well meaning public health intentions on track. All I know is, unlike the majority of people, I have an adverse reaction to this messaging. I'm very willing to accept that I could be on the wrong side of history. I'm certain of nothing. Know that I'm keeping an open mind.

"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum."
Noam Chomsky

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 18, 2021, 02:04:22 PM
Yes indeed
Edwin Poots vs Archaeology as to how old the Earth is😆
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 18, 2021, 02:50:48 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 18, 2021, 01:03:40 PM
Quotecan you example the BBC article that talks about early home treatment when you have claim MSM are not reporting on it.

Not true

I'm claiming theres been a skew in the reporting over the last 2 years.
Now using panic and fear may very well be considered as an acceptable intentional strategy for public health officials to persuade the majority of the population to do what they consider the right thing. And undermining/silencing/burying other perspectives which places doubt into peoples minds may also be required to keep well meaning public health intentions on track. All I know is, unlike the majority of people, I have an adverse reaction to this messaging. I'm very willing to accept that I could be on the wrong side of history. I'm certain of nothing. Know that I'm keeping an open mind.

We also use fear in Road Safety advertisements. No doubt some of you also think there is no harm in speeding drunk in a car with bald tyres while looking at your mobile phone. I see no reason though why your perspective should be respected.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 18, 2021, 02:57:26 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 18, 2021, 10:27:21 AM
No one mentioned miracle cures Len  ::)
Many people are on the fence and just want to hear reasoned perspectives rather than dogma. Public health has been poor on this front

Here's a not entirely unreasonable Rogan/McCullough response video from Dr. Zubin Damania.
https://youtu.be/8pcIbVvHI2c (https://youtu.be/8pcIbVvHI2c)

That's the problem though, there hasn't just been dogma. Doctors have been trying lots of things since the start of the pandemic and much has been learned. There are lots of trials going on for various drugs. Pfizer seem to have a very successful anti viral drug but the UK has only ordered 250k doses. It has been shown in trials to be over 90% successful at preventing hospitalisation and it even works just as well against omicron. There are alternative opinions but things need to go through the proper trials to be accepted. Anecdotal evidence isn't enough. A good majority of people will make a good recovery so when doctors tried  things out at the start of the pandemic to treat people it wasn't certain if the person had just recovered naturally or if the treatment was helpful. At this stage the treatments are much better but some people will still struggle badly if they get sick. Vaccines are very successful at keeping people out of hospital so it's a no brainer for most sensible people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 18, 2021, 03:10:46 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 18, 2021, 01:03:40 PM
Quotecan you example the BBC article that talks about early home treatment when you have claim MSM are not reporting on it.

Not true

I'm claiming theres been a skew in the reporting over the last 2 years.
Now using panic and fear may very well be considered as an acceptable intentional strategy for public health officials to persuade the majority of the population to do what they consider the right thing. And undermining/silencing/burying other perspectives which places doubt into peoples minds may also be required to keep well meaning public health intentions on track. All I know is, unlike the majority of people, I have an adverse reaction to this messaging. I'm very willing to accept that I could be on the wrong side of history. I'm certain of nothing. Know that I'm keeping an open mind.

sorry, I should have been more accurate you have question why there has been little talk of it in msm and that "other than the swift rubbishing of the people trying to promote such things"

I dont understand how you don't question the likes Dr John, you posted his YouTube on Japan miracle which was full of inaccuracies... and then there is Dr McCullough...

What panic and fear? they present facts and modelling which are estimated based on known or expected criteria..but do also use behavioual science... covid is new, still alot of unknowns with new variants and it killed and hospitalised a lot of people who would otherwise be alive or healthy. Covid in itself is not fun....

the silencing/burying alternatives, a quick Google shows you why most of it is not reported as when peer reviewed it turns out to be wrong... why report on incomplete and suspect data... most of whats posted on here comes with false narratives like the unvacced are blamed, msm this msm that, people want to be locked down and are all easily debunked with Google or common sense..

  the same posters who are skeptical of vaccines that have been through clinical trials post about drugs where no clinical trials have been completed or are inconclusive etc. against covid maybe some of these drug will be proved to help with covid and if they do they will be celebrated but without approval from regulators why would they be overly reported In the media..

you are in denial if you think you are keeping an open mind you are well down the conspiracy  route in my opinion..

grounded you won't like what Noah had to say about the unvaxxed..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on December 18, 2021, 04:30:13 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 18, 2021, 03:10:46 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 18, 2021, 01:03:40 PM
Quotecan you example the BBC article that talks about early home treatment when you have claim MSM are not reporting on it.

Not true

I'm claiming theres been a skew in the reporting over the last 2 years.
Now using panic and fear may very well be considered as an acceptable intentional strategy for public health officials to persuade the majority of the population to do what they consider the right thing. And undermining/silencing/burying other perspectives which places doubt into peoples minds may also be required to keep well meaning public health intentions on track. All I know is, unlike the majority of people, I have an adverse reaction to this messaging. I'm very willing to accept that I could be on the wrong side of history. I'm certain of nothing. Know that I'm keeping an open mind.

sorry, I should have been more accurate you have question why there has been little talk of it in msm and that "other than the swift rubbishing of the people trying to promote such things"

I dont understand how you don't question the likes Dr John, you posted his YouTube on Japan miracle which was full of inaccuracies... and then there is Dr McCullough...

What panic and fear? they present facts and modelling which are estimated based on known or expected criteria..but do also use behavioual science... covid is new, still alot of unknowns with new variants and it killed and hospitalised a lot of people who would otherwise be alive or healthy. Covid in itself is not fun....

the silencing/burying alternatives, a quick Google shows you why most of it is not reported as when peer reviewed it turns out to be wrong... why report on incomplete and suspect data... most of whats posted on here comes with false narratives like the unvacced are blamed, msm this msm that, people want to be locked down and are all easily debunked with Google or common sense..

  the same posters who are skeptical of vaccines that have been through clinical trials post about drugs where no clinical trials have been completed or are inconclusive etc. against covid maybe some of these drug will be proved to help with covid and if they do they will be celebrated but without approval from regulators why would they be overly reported In the media..

you are in denial if you think you are keeping an open mind you are well down the conspiracy  route in my opinion..

grounded you won't like what Noah had to say about the unvaxxed..

Something biblical? 
      Fire and brimstone?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 18, 2021, 04:33:01 PM
Talking to a guy the day had the virus last Yr, all vaccinated since except his wife, she scared of needles lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 18, 2021, 04:41:03 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 18, 2021, 04:35:38 PM
I can't understand why folk in the south aren't up in arms. Longest lockdown in EU, highest vaccination rate. From a people who stood from something in the distant past to a people who just do what there told regardless of the fact it isn't working. Not much fight in you boys.

Heres a thought, what if they had of just targeted the elderly, obese folk and people with under lying health conditions with the vaccine would we be any worst off.

Why don't we just lock those folk up as they contribute nothing to society and only make life a miserable time for the young and fit ones lol!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 18, 2021, 04:46:11 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 18, 2021, 04:35:38 PM
I can't understand why folk in the south aren't up in arms. Longest lockdown in EU, highest vaccination rate. From a people who stood from something in the distant past to a people who just do what there told regardless of the fact it isn't working. Not much fight in you boys.

Heres a thought, what if they had of just targeted the elderly, obese folk and people with under lying health conditions with the vaccine would we be any worst off.

Here's a thought, why not try to protect everyone in society by giving them an opportunity to get vaccinated.  In October Bloomberg ranked Ireland as best in the world for their handling of the pandemic. That's because the public health officials and politicians have done very well in protecting people while maintaining some kind of normality.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 18, 2021, 04:56:37 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 18, 2021, 04:51:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 18, 2021, 04:41:03 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 18, 2021, 04:35:38 PM
I can't understand why folk in the south aren't up in arms. Longest lockdown in EU, highest vaccination rate. From a people who stood from something in the distant past to a people who just do what there told regardless of the fact it isn't working. Not much fight in you boys.

Heres a thought, what if they had of just targeted the elderly, obese folk and people with under lying health conditions with the vaccine would we be any worst off.

Why don't we just lock those folk up as they contribute nothing to society and only make life a miserable time for the young and fit ones lol!!

Way off base man. Why would you do that. If they are vaccinated they are as protected as they can be. And as we can see it didn't matter about the rest getting vaccinated it doesn't stop it spreading. Made no difference, so I ask a reasonable question for discussion.

I've no idea what your point is?!  If the vaccine hasn't worked then why vaccinate at all
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on December 18, 2021, 05:20:10 PM
I'm going to preface these comments with the caveat that today a family member died of Covid. I have also spent most of the last three weeks in hospital for non Covid reasons.

The impact of the vaccine on spread is not a zero sum game. Just because it doesn't stop you becoming infected doesn't mean it has made no difference. The pattern of rapid growth pre and post vaccine has confirmed that.

The idea of either only vaccinating the vulnerable or of only locking them down is scary to me. Firstly it would be largely ineffective giving the interconnected world we live in. During the lockdown I was shielding. I only went out to go to the shops. An unchecked virus running wild would still have presented a huge risk to me even with my shielding because of the number of contacts I would still have when shielding be that with other shoppers, the shop assistant or delivery drivers etc. With an unchecked virus the chances of me encountering a +ve contact would have been greatly increased. That is something that would be factored into modelling but seems to have gone unconsidered by those who advocate only locking up the vulnerable.

The second issue with only vaccinating the vulnerable is that society as a whole and health care in particular simply would not have been able to cope. Not just from the increase in patients but also from the staff shortages that would have happened as medical professionals had to take time off work to tend to themselves.

It's a similar rationale to why low risk groups are still encouraged to get vaccinated.  There are likely little benefit to them individually but the benefit to society is great.

If there are sensible alternatives out there I'm more than willing to hear them but provide imperial evidence for them. Provide experts advocating them through peer review research. Don't provide YouTube videos from non experts providing inaccurate or misinformed theories based on easily debunked 'evidence'. Otherwise stop wasting time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on December 18, 2021, 05:42:09 PM
Sorry for your loss David

I'll be saying no more on the topic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 18, 2021, 06:19:57 PM
London mayor declaring the omicron  figures a "major incident".
7,333 cases in the 26 today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on December 18, 2021, 06:49:05 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: 6th sam on December 18, 2021, 07:36:10 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on December 18, 2021, 05:20:10 PM
I'm going to preface these comments with the caveat that today a family member died of Covid. I have also spent most of the last three weeks in hospital for non Covid reasons.

The impact of the vaccine on spread is not a zero sum game. Just because it doesn't stop you becoming infected doesn't mean it has made no difference. The pattern of rapid growth pre and post vaccine has confirmed that.

The idea of either only vaccinating the vulnerable or of only locking them down is scary to me. Firstly it would be largely ineffective giving the interconnected world we live in. During the lockdown I was shielding. I only went out to go to the shops. An unchecked virus running wild would still have presented a huge risk to me even with my shielding because of the number of contacts I would still have when shielding be that with other shoppers, the shop assistant or delivery drivers etc. With an unchecked virus the chances of me encountering a +ve contact would have been greatly increased. That is something that would be factored into modelling but seems to have gone unconsidered by those who advocate only locking up the vulnerable.

The second issue with only vaccinating the vulnerable is that society as a whole and health care in particular simply would not have been able to cope. Not just from the increase in patients but also from the staff shortages that would have happened as medical professionals had to take time off work to tend to themselves.

It's a similar rationale to why low risk groups are still encouraged to get vaccinated.  There are likely little benefit to them individually but the benefit to society is great.

If there are sensible alternatives out there I'm more than willing to hear them but provide imperial evidence for them. Provide experts advocating them through peer review research. Don't provide YouTube videos from non experts providing inaccurate or misinformed theories based on easily debunked 'evidence'. Otherwise stop wasting time.

Enough said, very well articulated intelligent analysis. Sorry for your loss David and very best wishes for your recovery .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on December 18, 2021, 07:44:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2021, 06:19:57 PM
London mayor declaring the omicron  figures a "major incident".
7,333 cases in the 26 today.

Under reported case numbers the previous 3 days to give inflated number today
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 18, 2021, 08:32:17 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on December 18, 2021, 07:44:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 18, 2021, 06:19:57 PM
London mayor declaring the omicron  figures a "major incident".
7,333 cases in the 26 today.

Under reported case numbers the previous 3 days to give inflated number today

That 7,333 contains an add on of around 3,200 under reported cases from the previous couple of days from what I hear.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on December 18, 2021, 08:34:05 PM
Omicron percentages are falling in South Africa.

It's contagious but must run out of targets.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on December 18, 2021, 08:52:15 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/7264aae6-f228-4015-87ef-838c701b99bb

The Netherlands has become the first EU country to re-enter a strict nationwide lockdown, in a response to the spread of the Omicron Covid-19 variant that will shutter swaths of the economy until at least mid-January
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on December 19, 2021, 07:51:25 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 18, 2021, 04:35:38 PM
I can't understand why folk in the south aren't up in arms. Longest lockdown in EU, highest vaccination rate. From a people who stood from something in the distant past to a people who just do what there told regardless of the fact it isn't working. Not much fight in you boys.


It's interesting the correlation between the thickos with no academic ability and poor job prospects because they could never be let manage people or have any kind of responsibility and who have moronic views like the above.

Of course the thickos just double down when it's pointed out to them how stupid they are, because the thickos believe it proves the point that 'they' are out to get them!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2021, 09:51:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 18, 2021, 08:34:05 PM
Omicron percentages are falling in South Africa.

It's contagious but must run out of targets.

'Medical expert' was on the radio the other day saying you can't use other countries as yardsticks for this virus, the age profile in South Africa is completely different to European countries for starters.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 19, 2021, 11:20:01 AM
We can fairly assume no record kept of the outbreaks in shanty Town areas
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 19, 2021, 12:30:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2021, 09:51:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 18, 2021, 08:34:05 PM
Omicron percentages are falling in South Africa.

It's contagious but must run out of targets.

'Medical expert' was on the radio the other day saying you can't use other countries as yardsticks for this virus, the age profile in South Africa is completely different to European countries for starters.

You can look at stats all you like from different countries. Each has an agenda. Some want to overstate cases, some want to understate. It all depends on the principal narrative of that country. Sweden has cut down on tests. Cutting down on test means a reduction in cases. Ireland cant test enough people. Then of course there are poorer countries who just cant test. Once again no tests - no cases!

Bottom line is Governments will cook the figures to suit the Narritive. Just look at yesterdays figures of 7,333 that contained an add on of around 3,200 under reported cases from the previous couple of days.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 19, 2021, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on December 18, 2021, 05:20:10 PM
I'm going to preface these comments with the caveat that today a family member died of Covid. I have also spent most of the last three weeks in hospital for non Covid reasons.

The impact of the vaccine on spread is not a zero sum game. Just because it doesn't stop you becoming infected doesn't mean it has made no difference. The pattern of rapid growth pre and post vaccine has confirmed that.

The idea of either only vaccinating the vulnerable or of only locking them down is scary to me. Firstly it would be largely ineffective giving the interconnected world we live in. During the lockdown I was shielding. I only went out to go to the shops. An unchecked virus running wild would still have presented a huge risk to me even with my shielding because of the number of contacts I would still have when shielding be that with other shoppers, the shop assistant or delivery drivers etc. With an unchecked virus the chances of me encountering a +ve contact would have been greatly increased. That is something that would be factored into modelling but seems to have gone unconsidered by those who advocate only locking up the vulnerable.

The second issue with only vaccinating the vulnerable is that society as a whole and health care in particular simply would not have been able to cope. Not just from the increase in patients but also from the staff shortages that would have happened as medical professionals had to take time off work to tend to themselves.

It's a similar rationale to why low risk groups are still encouraged to get vaccinated.  There are likely little benefit to them individually but the benefit to society is great.

If there are sensible alternatives out there I'm more than willing to hear them but provide imperial evidence for them. Provide experts advocating them through peer review research. Don't provide YouTube videos from non experts providing inaccurate or misinformed theories based on easily debunked 'evidence'. Otherwise stop wasting time.

Good post.

Sorry for your loss and your own health struggles.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on December 19, 2021, 01:39:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 19, 2021, 09:51:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 18, 2021, 08:34:05 PM
Omicron percentages are falling in South Africa.

It's contagious but must run out of targets.

'Medical expert' was on the radio the other day saying you can't use other countries as yardsticks for this virus, the age profile in South Africa is completely different to European countries for starters.

Median age in South Africa is 28 compared to 38 here however it balance itself out with the amount of people that has HIV in South Africa.

They are currently experiencing their highest caseload in all of this pandemic and in previous peak of cases it resulted in
In 600 deaths per week. There is about 7,600 people with Covid in South African hospitals, about 40 per cent of the peak in the second and third waves.

Michelle Groome, head of health surveillance for the country's National Institute for Communicable Diseases said more than 90 per cent of hospital deaths were among the unvaccinated or partially vaccinated, News24 reported, citing Waasila Jassat, a researcher with the NICD.

The number of Covid-19 hospitalisations in this wave is also being inflated by the fact that milder patients are being admitted because there is room to accommodate them. Many are there for other complaints but are routinely tested, according to health officials.


The rises we are seeing in many EU countries is Delta driven with too much mixing indoors it remains to be seen what happens once omicron replaces delta all we know for certain thus far is it will produce more cases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 19, 2021, 02:56:17 PM
Another prize specimen.... ::)

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/former-boxer-defends-his-anti-vax-flight-tirade-as-the-word-of-god-41163861.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 19, 2021, 03:22:25 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 19, 2021, 02:56:17 PM
Another prize specimen.... ::)

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/former-boxer-defends-his-anti-vax-flight-tirade-as-the-word-of-god-41163861.html

Ah, he's young and upset! Better to keep his thoughts to himself. Irish Indepedent must be having a slow news day to run a news story on this. Just goes to show you the Independent is no better than the Red Tops anymore!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 19, 2021, 04:06:25 PM
Fair play to them for showing up another thicko!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on December 19, 2021, 04:34:15 PM
Hospital situation for each Sunday the last month in ROI.

Today - 436 in hospital and 107 in ICU
Dec 12th - 504 in hospital and 109 in ICU
Dec 5th - 503 in hospital and 110 in ICU
Nov 28th - 566 in hospital and 117 in ICU
Nov 21st - 688 in hospital and 125 in ICU
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 19, 2021, 10:37:49 PM
So this:

https://www.nicd.ac.za/diseases-a-z-index/disease-index-covid-19/surveillance-reports/daily-hospital-surveillance-datcov-report/

Isn't great.

Looks like Omicron will land enough people in hospital to cause serious capacity issues.


However...

https://www.nicd.ac.za/diseases-a-z-index/disease-index-covid-19/surveillance-reports/national-covid-19-daily-report/

Because it spreads so, so, so fast - expect the peak to come relatively quickly (which isn't great news for hospitals etc, but will mean restrictions will ease quicker than before) - anyone that will get seriously sick is likely to become seriously sick within the next month as I'd expect it to have more or less fully penetrated the population in that timeframe (particularly as I expect folks to be very antipathetic to restrictions given Johnston's partying).

After which point, it becomes a rather more deadly version of "just another virus".

*Usually* this normally pans out as evolution into a more benign form, and coupled with greater resistance due to frequent encounters, it merges into the background noise of other ailments in circulation.
However, always a risk it mutates into something worse. But then, there is that risk with every other virus already - hence why you need a new mix of the flu vaccine every year.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 19, 2021, 10:44:45 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 19, 2021, 10:39:35 PM
Well this is the Health minister Gillian Keegan from England being interviewed

https://twitter.com/maajidnawaz/status/1472623144385011721?s=21 (https://twitter.com/maajidnawaz/status/1472623144385011721?s=21)

Looks like a car crash - but thats just sky fishing for shite (as usual).

Those stats would all be available on the dashboards - and they are always clearer off those than in a verbal conversation.

[although in saying that, poor prep not to have the fukking numbers sitting there on a bit of paper]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ball Hopper on December 19, 2021, 11:35:24 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on December 18, 2021, 05:20:10 PM
I'm going to preface these comments with the caveat that today a family member died of Covid. I have also spent most of the last three weeks in hospital for non Covid reasons.


Sorry for your loss , David.  Hope your own health issues are easing too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 20, 2021, 12:31:20 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 19, 2021, 10:39:35 PM
Well this is the Health minister Gillian Keegan from England being interviewed

https://twitter.com/maajidnawaz/status/1472623144385011721?s=21 (https://twitter.com/maajidnawaz/status/1472623144385011721?s=21)

She looks like she doesn't give a fcuk! Wonder why?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 20, 2021, 07:36:42 AM
Why?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 20, 2021, 03:27:20 PM
Another vaccine approved for us in the 26

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/ireland-in-line-for-another-covid-19-vaccine-after-ema-approves-novavax-41167470.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on December 20, 2021, 03:57:19 PM
I see the various hospitality representatives in Belfast are out in force looking for handouts due to the lack of footfall at, what should be, their busiest time of year.

Usually I would be very sympathetic to their cause.

But the way they have gouged the shite out of punters recently with exorbitant price rises, I'm more inclined to say screw them.

The small rural guys and those outside the city centre are a different story however.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on December 20, 2021, 04:08:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnwBTGDCLVQ

Russell Brand
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 20, 2021, 04:08:57 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 20, 2021, 03:57:19 PM
I see the various hospitality representatives in Belfast are out in force looking for handouts due to the lack of footfall at, what should be, their busiest time of year.

Usually I would be very sympathetic to their cause.

But the way they have gouged the shite out of punters recently with exorbitant price rises, I'm more inclined to say screw them.

The small rural guys and those outside the city centre are a different story however.
Agreed. Price of drink is a joke
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 20, 2021, 05:33:40 PM
Quote from: Rudi on December 20, 2021, 04:08:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnwBTGDCLVQ

Russell Brand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCIEOibSljc

Russell Peters
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2021, 05:48:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 20, 2021, 04:08:57 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 20, 2021, 03:57:19 PM
I see the various hospitality representatives in Belfast are out in force looking for handouts due to the lack of footfall at, what should be, their busiest time of year.

Usually I would be very sympathetic to their cause.

But the way they have gouged the shite out of punters recently with exorbitant price rises, I'm more inclined to say screw them.

The small rural guys and those outside the city centre are a different story however.
Agreed. Price of drink is a joke

6.70 a pint, nearly died
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 20, 2021, 07:15:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2021, 05:48:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 20, 2021, 04:08:57 PM
Agreed. Price of drink is a joke

6.70 a pint, nearly died

:o :o

Where was that?!?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 20, 2021, 10:38:56 PM
It was guts of 12 quid yesterday for a pint and a glass of wine in Bittles of all places. :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2021, 11:13:32 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 20, 2021, 07:15:45 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 20, 2021, 05:48:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 20, 2021, 04:08:57 PM
Agreed. Price of drink is a joke

6.70 a pint, nearly died

:o :o

Where was that?!?

Parisien, not a bar per say so be bit dearer but Jesus
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mario on December 21, 2021, 09:22:19 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 20, 2021, 10:38:56 PM
It was guts of 12 quid yesterday for a pint and a glass of wine in Bittles of all places. :o
Bittles has got really popular. Apparently because of this lad who said it has the best Guinness in Belfast:

https://www.irelandbeforeyoudie.com/belfast-pub-has-record-sales-after-guinness-guru-raves-about-their-pints/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 21, 2021, 09:46:36 AM
Some places in Belfast have serious notions and delusions of grandeur these days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on December 21, 2021, 11:41:47 AM
I would say its almost heartening to see some establishments belonging to a certain chain struggling for foot fall the last week - one that couldn't wait to let staff go before furlough was announced... but that would disregard those same staff that will be first to get the boot when things go tits up again.
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 21, 2021, 09:46:36 AM
Some places in Belfast have serious notions and delusions of grandeur these days.
People complain about the cost of a pint in Belfast but then every weekend go and queue outside the same shite bars charging an arm and a leg so no sympathy from me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on December 21, 2021, 12:06:42 PM
was last out in Belfast city centre in August. prices for 2 drinks were just over £10.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 21, 2021, 12:58:03 PM
Quote from: general_lee on December 21, 2021, 11:41:47 AM
I would say its almost heartening to see some establishments belonging to a certain chain struggling for foot fall the last week - one that couldn't wait to let staff go before furlough was announced... but that would disregard those same staff that will be first to get the boot when things go tits up again.
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 21, 2021, 09:46:36 AM
Some places in Belfast have serious notions and delusions of grandeur these days.
People complain about the cost of a pint in Belfast but then every weekend go and queue outside the same shite bars charging an arm and a leg so no sympathy from me.

There was a owner on the other day complaining, I was in his place not that long ago, had to prepay a deposit (£10 per person, £50) which is fine, but he was saying he had over 100 people cancelling their bookings, he'll have had their deposits, and the footfall in this place was non stop over lunch with people being sent away as they were fully booked.

They would have no problem filling those seats
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 21, 2021, 01:54:59 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 21, 2021, 01:18:02 PM
Scientists are suing the @US_FDA demanding full access to Pfizer's trial data, since the vaccine was fully approved in Aug '21 (US). As the trial is underway, the FDA has already released a batch of documents, but what do they tell us? The experts weigh in

https://maryannedemasi.com/publications/f/experts-weigh-in-after-suing-fda-for-access-to-pfizer-trial-data (https://maryannedemasi.com/publications/f/experts-weigh-in-after-suing-fda-for-access-to-pfizer-trial-data)

Boy you've some time on your hands to go through all this stuff, fair play.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 21, 2021, 04:30:46 PM
how are you arriving at those conclusions/questions?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on December 21, 2021, 07:54:56 PM
Does anyone know the official death tally from this whole thing?

What's the excess deaths globally?

What does it take to become an official 'pandemic'?

How many people in the world today died FROM hunger?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 21, 2021, 08:26:23 PM
Quote from: highorlow on December 21, 2021, 07:54:56 PM
Does anyone know the official death tally from this whole thing?

What's the excess deaths globally?

What does it take to become an official 'pandemic'?

How many people in the world today died FROM hunger?

It's already a pandemic, stop asking stupid questions. Look up the meaning of the word pandemic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 21, 2021, 08:29:07 PM
Quote from: highorlow on December 21, 2021, 07:54:56 PM
Does anyone know the official death tally from this whole thing?
What's the excess deaths globally?

20 million + or - a bit
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-deaths-cumulative-economist-single-entity?country=~OWID_WRL
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 21, 2021, 08:32:05 PM
MSM irish times are reporting the US regulator set to authorise two new drugs from Pzifer and Merck to help prevent hospitalisation....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 21, 2021, 09:13:42 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 21, 2021, 08:32:05 PM
MSM irish times are reporting the US regulator set to authorise two new drugs from Pzifer and Merck to help prevent hospitalisation....

The pfizer drug has the potential to end the pandemic. It has been tested on extremely vulnerable people, the ones who were typically getting extremely sick or dying. It worked in almost 90% in terms of keeping them out of hospital with a 5 day course of tablets. The UK has only ordered a small number of them though and they won't be available until the end of march. The Merck drug is 50% effective in its trial results so it will help to keep hospital numbers down also.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 21, 2021, 10:13:25 PM
Yeah but how can they approve a drug so quickly? I dont trust big pharma, the FDA or EMA.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on December 21, 2021, 10:22:05 PM
What's the official acceptable approval waiting time?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on December 21, 2021, 10:31:22 PM
It appears the MSM are finally accepting this new 'Variant' is a head cold.

Time to move on now from this nonsense, open up, get on with life and let the MSM move back onto homeless stuff and climate change.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 21, 2021, 11:39:12 PM
Quote from: Mario on December 21, 2021, 09:22:19 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 20, 2021, 10:38:56 PM
It was guts of 12 quid yesterday for a pint and a glass of wine in Bittles of all places. :o
Bittles has got really popular. Apparently because of this lad who said it has the best Guinness in Belfast:

https://www.irelandbeforeyoudie.com/belfast-pub-has-record-sales-after-guinness-guru-raves-about-their-pints/
The Guinness was average.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 22, 2021, 12:25:04 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 21, 2021, 11:58:17 PM
Joke time!!

What do pro vaxxers and anti vaccers have in common?

They'll never be fully vaccinated! 😂😂😂

What do anti vaxxers and arseholes have in common?
They both produce a stream of shite.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 22, 2021, 01:22:25 AM
Don't forget multi Ids and come backs after they been barred also.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on December 22, 2021, 01:33:18 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 21, 2021, 11:39:12 PM
Quote from: Mario on December 21, 2021, 09:22:19 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 20, 2021, 10:38:56 PM
It was guts of 12 quid yesterday for a pint and a glass of wine in Bittles of all places. :o
Bittles has got really popular. Apparently because of this lad who said it has the best Guinness in Belfast:

https://www.irelandbeforeyoudie.com/belfast-pub-has-record-sales-after-guinness-guru-raves-about-their-pints/
The Guinness was average.

anyone drinking in belfast atm  ::)

shows you how much money is floating about though

no poor people in a nanny state  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 22, 2021, 08:00:39 AM
Worth a read about the pfizer anti viral treatment. If we all had access to this drug we wouldn't need too many other restrictions.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/21/paxlovid-anti-covid-pill-why-not-available

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 22, 2021, 11:07:50 AM
Quote from: lenny on December 22, 2021, 08:00:39 AM
Worth a read about the pfizer anti viral treatment. If we all had access to this drug we wouldn't need too many other restrictions.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/21/paxlovid-anti-covid-pill-why-not-available
It'll come eventually. Manufacturing capacity for these dosage forms take time to scale up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2021, 11:53:58 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 22, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
"We conclude that the mRNA vacs dramatically increase inflammation on the endothelium and T cell infiltration of cardiac muscle and may account for the observations of increased thrombosis, cardiomyopathy, and other vascular events following vaccination."

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712?fbclid=IwAR0PBopeXqTPoa4u0_pIrnag3v6ufEyG6NmGSQUobrFY9lBqmapESH0_Gtk   (https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712?fbclid=IwAR0PBopeXqTPoa4u0_pIrnag3v6ufEyG6NmGSQUobrFY9lBqmapESH0_Gtk)

The more common side effects of ibuprofen are:
stomach pain.
heartburn.
nausea.
vomiting.
gas.
constipation.
diarrhea.

And more, but we still stake them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 22, 2021, 12:53:06 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 22, 2021, 11:11:36 AM
Quote from: lenny on December 22, 2021, 08:00:39 AM
Worth a read about the pfizer anti viral treatment. If we all had access to this drug we wouldn't need too many other restrictions.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/21/paxlovid-anti-covid-pill-why-not-available

said the same about the vaccine, then the booster and then the next booster and so on and so forth, and now this, as green as grass.

Yeah imagine not getting thing right first time with a new virus. Unbelievable Jeff.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 22, 2021, 01:00:01 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 22, 2021, 12:58:13 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 22, 2021, 12:53:06 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 22, 2021, 11:11:36 AM
Quote from: lenny on December 22, 2021, 08:00:39 AM
Worth a read about the pfizer anti viral treatment. If we all had access to this drug we wouldn't need too many other restrictions.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/21/paxlovid-anti-covid-pill-why-not-available

said the same about the vaccine, then the booster and then the next booster and so on and so forth, and now this, as green as grass.

Yeah imagine not getting thing right first time with a new virus. Unbelievable Jeff.

Indeed I agree, yet you want to horse it into you.  :o

So what SHOULD he be doing?

What are you telling your GP friend to do in their practice?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2021, 01:01:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 22, 2021, 01:00:01 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 22, 2021, 12:58:13 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 22, 2021, 12:53:06 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 22, 2021, 11:11:36 AM
Quote from: lenny on December 22, 2021, 08:00:39 AM
Worth a read about the pfizer anti viral treatment. If we all had access to this drug we wouldn't need too many other restrictions.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/21/paxlovid-anti-covid-pill-why-not-available

said the same about the vaccine, then the booster and then the next booster and so on and so forth, and now this, as green as grass.

Yeah imagine not getting thing right first time with a new virus. Unbelievable Jeff.

Indeed I agree, yet you want to horse it into you.  :o

So what SHOULD he be doing?

What are you telling your GP friend to do in their practice?

Barrister GP and a micro biologist friends...  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 22, 2021, 01:40:03 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 22, 2021, 01:09:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 22, 2021, 01:00:01 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 22, 2021, 12:58:13 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on December 22, 2021, 12:53:06 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 22, 2021, 11:11:36 AM
Quote from: lenny on December 22, 2021, 08:00:39 AM
Worth a read about the pfizer anti viral treatment. If we all had access to this drug we wouldn't need too many other restrictions.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/21/paxlovid-anti-covid-pill-why-not-available

said the same about the vaccine, then the booster and then the next booster and so on and so forth, and now this, as green as grass.

Yeah imagine not getting thing right first time with a new virus. Unbelievable Jeff.

Indeed I agree, yet you want to horse it into you.  :o

So what SHOULD he be doing?

What are you telling your GP friend to do in their practice?

What he does is his own business. He said 'imagine not getting thing right first time with a new virus' Which led me to question why would you want to horse it into you when your not getting things right first time  :o Where did you read that I told him what to do in his practise? Now your fantasising and making shit up.

Here you go. Shocked you were that he didn't find your expert convincing.

Quote from: Thastheball on December 11, 2021, 02:04:56 PM
Skull, I have been following this guy for quite a while. Your wasting your time with some of the posters on here.  Actually had a conversation with a friend who is a GP, sent a video link to him as well. I was shocked at his response to one of the top men in the world. My first thoughts how much r getting paid per vaccine injection. Follow the money

So nothing to offer then on what we should be doing? All that time on your hands to write a barrage of anti-vax posts and you've no thoughts or opinions whatsoever?

As for "not getting things right the first time", that's the nature of vaccines with pathogens like viruses which mutate and evolve rapidly. You're always playing catch-up. Its why there are new flu vaccines annually. Its why new antibiotics have to be created to deal with the evolution of drug resistance in bacteria. Its why even rat poisons don't remain effective forever, albeit on a larger time scale.

Nevertheless, I don't know what the data is in Ireland, but in the US the covid vaccines are very effectively fighting serious illness and death. That you need boosters doesn't change that one bit. Its 15 minutes out of your day to get it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 22, 2021, 02:17:36 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 22, 2021, 02:12:58 PM
So where in that am I telling my GP friend what to do in his practise? I shared it with him as a close friend and colleague to get his opinion and I was shocked that he wasn't prepared to consider it, he was happy to do what many other GPs are doing, send you home to fend for yourself.

I never at any point have said I am anti vaxx, and thats where you have made more shit up in your head. I am certainly very hesitant in taking a vaccine that has to many reported side effects, ways to many by comparison to the other vaccines. for example the tetanus inject has had only 58 reported side effects since it was put into the market, this vaccine has had thousands of reported side effects, way above what would normally be accepted and normally with high incidence of reporting would have been pulled for further testing, but has not. WHY? I will take it in the future when I am reassured more about it with reliable data that will be shared for a number of independent sources. If your under 50 you do not need to take this vaccine, unless you are obese, or have an underlying health condition.  The argument that you had to take it to protect others is now defunct as there is countless evidence of high vaccinations that are making no difference to transmission rates to the general public. I am the main carer for my mother who is 86, I made sure she got vaccinated, the evidence is clear that she is in the very high risk category and the risks of not taking it vastly out way the risk of taking it ie stroke etc.

the more information that becomes available the more i will read. And trust me, I read alot on both fronts. So do yourself a favour and do not presume to know me.

Grown man living at home with his mother and spends all day on the internet....... Explains it all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: SHEEDY on December 22, 2021, 02:20:56 PM
3231 cases reported in the 6 counties today
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2021, 02:33:53 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 22, 2021, 02:20:56 PM
3231 cases reported in the 6 counties today

Was chatting to one of the main bosses in a regional hospital trust yesterday, he said that so far, they are finding this variant is not lasting long with illness, the length of hospital time is far shorter if you go in with this.

I suppose it could be a number of reasons as to why that is, different variant, better understanding of it, and learning from previous mistakes.

Hopefully it will become just another sickness with no lasting issues. But I'll continue to be careful and follow the science, not Karen ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 22, 2021, 02:42:05 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 22, 2021, 02:12:58 PM
So where in that am I telling my GP friend what to do in his practise? I shared it with him as a close friend and colleague to get his opinion and I was shocked that he wasn't prepared to consider it, he was happy to do what many other GPs are doing, send you home to fend for yourself.

Again, here you are, castigating your supposed friend who is a GP for not taking your advice and for offering their patients inadequate care.

If you're a doctor yourself, then state that. At least then your opinion would come attached with some level of credibility.

Quote from: Thastheball on December 22, 2021, 02:12:58 PM
I never at any point have said I am anti vaxx, and thats where you have made more shit up in your head. I am certainly very hesitant in taking a vaccine that has to many reported side effects, ways to many by comparison to the other vaccines. for example the tetanus inject has had only 58 reported side effects since it was put into the market, this vaccine has had thousands of reported side effects, way above what would normally be accepted and normally with high incidence of reporting would have been pulled for further testing, but has not. WHY? I will take it in the future when I am reassured more about it with reliable data that will be shared for a number of independent sources. If your under 50 you do not need to take this vaccine, unless you are obese, or have an underlying health condition.  The argument that you had to take it to protect others is now defunct as there is countless evidence of high vaccinations that are making no difference to transmission rates to the general public. I am the main carer for my mother who is 86, I made sure she got vaccinated, the evidence is clear that she is in the very high risk category and the risks of not taking it vastly out way the risk of taking it ie stroke etc.

the more information that becomes available the more i will read. And trust me, I read alot on both fronts. So do yourself a favour and do not presume to know me.

Thousands of reported side effects? Really?

How do they compare to the effects of covid?

Regardless of breakthrough infections and your alleged worthlessness in decreasing transmission, the vaccines ARE protecting against serious illness and death across all age groups. That alone makes it worth taking.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 22, 2021, 02:48:31 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 22, 2021, 02:20:56 PM
3231 cases reported in the 6 counties today

Last 7 days in Belfast and places around like Lisburn are up 50% on the previous week. Newry is actually marginally down over that timescale, which makes a pleasant change.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2021, 02:33:53 PM


Was chatting to one of the main bosses in a regional hospital trust yesterday, he said that so far, they are finding this variant is not lasting long with illness, the length of hospital time is far shorter if you go in with this.

I suppose it could be a number of reasons as to why that is, different variant, better understanding of it, and learning from previous mistakes.

One reason for more cases is that this variant can get you even if you are vaccinated or have had Covid, but most of these people will not get a bad dose. But there is also a better understanding of treatment now than in March 2020.
It had better be less serious, otherwise the rapid increase in cases will cause big problems.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 22, 2021, 04:18:51 PM
Closing night clubs apparently in the North. Could be worse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 22, 2021, 05:19:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2021, 02:33:53 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on December 22, 2021, 02:20:56 PM
3231 cases reported in the 6 counties today

Was chatting to one of the main bosses in a regional hospital trust yesterday, he said that so far, they are finding this variant is not lasting long with illness, the length of hospital time is far shorter if you go in with this.

I suppose it could be a number of reasons as to why that is, different variant, better understanding of it, and learning from previous mistakes.

Hopefully it will become just another sickness with no lasting issues. But I'll continue to be careful and follow the science, not Karen ;)

That is how I think it is too. The thing that government etc etc need to be careful of, which is fair enough, is the sheer weight of numbers if more contagious so even if less people get hospitalised etc did more get it then numbers could cause issues soon enough. Statistics do seem to be something that evade a lot of people would be once conclusion that can be drawn from this pandemic...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on December 22, 2021, 07:54:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2021, 11:53:58 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 22, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
"We conclude that the mRNA vacs dramatically increase inflammation on the endothelium and T cell infiltration of cardiac muscle and may account for the observations of increased thrombosis, cardiomyopathy, and other vascular events following vaccination."

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712?fbclid=IwAR0PBopeXqTPoa4u0_pIrnag3v6ufEyG6NmGSQUobrFY9lBqmapESH0_Gtk   (https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712?fbclid=IwAR0PBopeXqTPoa4u0_pIrnag3v6ufEyG6NmGSQUobrFY9lBqmapESH0_Gtk)

The more common side effects of ibuprofen are:
stomach pain.
heartburn.
nausea.
vomiting.
gas.
constipation.
diarrhea.

And more, but we still stake them

but people are not being forced to take all of those people are not being threatened to take them we dont have pat kenny or tony blair going on tv to tell people to take them or else  people dont need to take them to access services  are people being threaten to take ibprofen do we see a massive media campaign telling people to take ibuprofen  do we see people being threatened with jail if they do not take ibrpofen also ibprofen was probably tested on for years.We dont see tds in the dail threatening to starve those that dont take ibprofen
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 22, 2021, 07:54:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2021, 11:53:58 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 22, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
"We conclude that the mRNA vacs dramatically increase inflammation on the endothelium and T cell infiltration of cardiac muscle and may account for the observations of increased thrombosis, cardiomyopathy, and other vascular events following vaccination."

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712?fbclid=IwAR0PBopeXqTPoa4u0_pIrnag3v6ufEyG6NmGSQUobrFY9lBqmapESH0_Gtk   (https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712?fbclid=IwAR0PBopeXqTPoa4u0_pIrnag3v6ufEyG6NmGSQUobrFY9lBqmapESH0_Gtk)

The more common side effects of ibuprofen are:
stomach pain.
heartburn.
nausea.
vomiting.
gas.
constipation.
diarrhea.

And more, but we still stake them

but people are not being forced to take all of those people are not being threatened to take them we dont have pat kenny or tony blair going on tv to tell people to take them or else  people dont need to take them to access services  are people being threaten to take ibprofen do we see a massive media campaign telling people to take ibuprofen  do we see people being threatened with jail if they do not take ibrpofen also ibprofen was probably tested on for years.

Never threatened to take the vaccine never forced either, it's my choice. Your choice not too, no one has threatened me to wear a seatbelt but I do, if I don't there's consequences, like death and prosecution.

There are ads telling me the benefits of seatbelt use also. You like to talk shite and no one stops you either that's ok.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on December 22, 2021, 08:06:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2021, 08:00:45 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 22, 2021, 07:54:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2021, 11:53:58 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 22, 2021, 11:19:17 AM
"We conclude that the mRNA vacs dramatically increase inflammation on the endothelium and T cell infiltration of cardiac muscle and may account for the observations of increased thrombosis, cardiomyopathy, and other vascular events following vaccination."

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712?fbclid=IwAR0PBopeXqTPoa4u0_pIrnag3v6ufEyG6NmGSQUobrFY9lBqmapESH0_Gtk   (https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712?fbclid=IwAR0PBopeXqTPoa4u0_pIrnag3v6ufEyG6NmGSQUobrFY9lBqmapESH0_Gtk)

The more common side effects of ibuprofen are:
stomach pain.
heartburn.
nausea.
vomiting.
gas.
constipation.
diarrhea.

And more, but we still stake them

but people are not being forced to take all of those people are not being threatened to take them we dont have pat kenny or tony blair going on tv to tell people to take them or else  people dont need to take them to access services  are people being threaten to take ibprofen do we see a massive media campaign telling people to take ibuprofen  do we see people being threatened with jail if they do not take ibrpofen also ibprofen was probably tested on for years.

Never threatened to take the vaccine never forced either, it's my choice. Your choice not too, no one has threatened me to wear a seatbelt but I do, if I don't there's consequences, like death and prosecution.

There are ads telling me the benefits of seatbelt use also. You like to talk shite and no one stops you either that's ok.

a seatbelt is not a medical procedure that can effect your internal system like a vaccine you can take a seatbelt off you cant take the vaccine back out if lisa shaw and others cant simply take the vacccine back out of them.  like you can take a seatbelt off you cant mandate something that has lethal side effects even if its rare.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2021, 08:19:13 PM
Tell me when you were threatened and forced please, cause that's bullshite
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on December 22, 2021, 08:23:35 PM
people in austria being threaten with imprisonment if they dont get vaccinated in america people being threaten with losing their jobs you think its not out the realm of possibility it wont come here  irish senators threatening to starve people people in the media calling for people to starve.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 22, 2021, 08:33:52 PM
somebodies mammy needs to take the laptop away again
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 22, 2021, 08:38:33 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 22, 2021, 08:23:35 PM
people in austria being threaten with imprisonment if they dont get vaccinated in america people being threaten with losing their jobs you think its not out the realm of possibility it wont come here  irish senators threatening to starve people people in the media calling for people to starve.

Are you anti-punctuation too?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2021, 09:01:50 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 22, 2021, 08:23:35 PM
people in austria being threaten with imprisonment if they dont get vaccinated in america people being threaten with losing their jobs you think its not out the realm of possibility it wont come here  irish senators threatening to starve people people in the media calling for people to starve.

Ok I'll ask you again when were you threatened or forced? If you haven't got a proper answer then stop spreading shite
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 22, 2021, 09:53:51 PM
Quote from: highorlow on December 21, 2021, 07:54:56 PM
Does anyone know the official death tally from this whole thing?

What's the excess deaths globally?

What does it take to become an official 'pandemic'?

How many people in the world today died FROM hunger?

I've looked back at your posts and oddly enough I don't see any posts pre pandemic where you express deep concern about people dying from hunger. It makes me think your concern expressed in such a selfless way is actually a selfish concern and more about a few small restrictions placed on you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 22, 2021, 10:32:56 PM
Quote from: highorlow on December 21, 2021, 07:54:56 PM
Does anyone know the official death tally from this whole thing?

What's the excess deaths globally?

What does it take to become an official 'pandemic'?

How many people in the world today died FROM hunger?

highorlow we live in a new world where Covid is the only thing that matters.

Every Covid death outranks every other death.

The Narrative is set, and anyone speaking outside of this is ridiculed, belittled and pigeoned holed into stereo-type categories such as having far-right beliefs.

It's now an obsession, a sort of religion.

I'd stay away from forums such as this. Most on here are now controlled by a higher source. They get their instruction from Big Pharma, Governments and MSM.

It's been a long time since they looked outside of these for answers.

They place their trust in the pillars of society, similar in the same way that Soldiers in the front line did in World War One.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on December 22, 2021, 11:01:43 PM
Brilliant, Bunker
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on December 22, 2021, 11:13:36 PM
Or maybe you lost the argument long ago. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 23, 2021, 07:27:12 AM
MSM check

Big pharma check

The two sure signs of someone critiquing 'MSM" and reading something as bad or worse. The sure sign someone needs a tinfoil hat too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 23, 2021, 08:32:55 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 22, 2021, 10:32:56 PM
Quote from: highorlow on December 21, 2021, 07:54:56 PM
Does anyone know the official death tally from this whole thing?

What's the excess deaths globally?

What does it take to become an official 'pandemic'?

How many people in the world today died FROM hunger?

highorlow we live in a new world where Covid is the only thing that matters.

Every Covid death outranks every other death.

The Narrative is set, and anyone speaking outside of this is ridiculed, belittled and pigeoned holed into stereo-type categories such as having far-right beliefs.

It's now an obsession, a sort of religion.

I'd stay away from forums such as this. Most on here are now controlled by a higher source. They get their instruction from Big Pharma, Governments and MSM.

It's been a long time since they looked outside of these for answers.

They place their trust in the pillars of society, similar in the same way that Soldiers in the front line did in World War One.

The sad thing about this post is that there is a small minority of people out there who've allowed themselves to believe all these conspiracy theories. Just to take a couple of examples- these nutcases lump all media outlets into one homogeneous group ie mainstream media. It totally ignores the fact that out there on mainstream media are newspapers like the Telegraph and the Mail which are almost totally against any restrictions and have minimised the risk right from the start of the pandemic. Lbc, talk radio and GB news are radio/tv outlets which have presenters who are anti restrictions and anti vax. One thing most have in common is that they are extremely right wing.
On another point these nutcases also blame governments for taking away freedoms and imposing the vaccine on us. The conspiracy theorists always tell us that they don't trust government and we'll not get these freedoms back. It's a completely ridiculous argument given that most governments around the world have taken completely different approaches. Three countries which have performed worst in terms of deaths are the UK, USA and Brazil. One thing they all had in common at the start of the pandemic was they all had very right wing leaders who were reluctant to impose restrictions and acted much too late. In the case of Bolsonaro he didn't act at all.
If all countries had taken the same actions as Jacinda Ardern in NZ the virus would've died out with nowhere to go. We could all end up having to take that kind of approach for a few months depending on how the virus continues to evolve.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 23, 2021, 09:13:29 AM
Did you not know the only "free-thinkers" are the ones who lap up all manner of crazy shite on the Internet without question.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on December 23, 2021, 03:29:53 PM
Would love a tinfoil hat. There were none in Poundstretcher or Boots in Lisburn.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on December 23, 2021, 03:46:35 PM
I had to get rid of mine. I found it interfered with my newly excellent 5g internet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on December 23, 2021, 03:58:29 PM
Omicron has become the dominant strain of this virus now in the ROI. A surge in positive swabs and positivity in testing as high as its been during this pandemic, 10k cases could well be reported tonight or tomorrow.

How this variant translate into hospital admissions and spike for ICU treatment remains to be seen. Hopefully it's the milder strain as many experts has suggested. Currently 390 in hospital and 98 in ICU, as low as its been since October.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on December 23, 2021, 05:17:37 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 22, 2021, 10:32:56 PM
Quote from: highorlow on December 21, 2021, 07:54:56 PM
Does anyone know the official death tally from this whole thing?

What's the excess deaths globally?

What does it take to become an official 'pandemic'?

How many people in the world today died FROM hunger?

highorlow we live in a new world where Covid is the only thing that matters.

Every Covid death outranks every other death.

The Narrative is set, and anyone speaking outside of this is ridiculed, belittled and pigeoned holed into stereo-type categories such as having far-right beliefs.

It's now an obsession, a sort of religion.

I'd stay away from forums such as this. Most on here are now controlled by a higher source. They get their instruction from Big Pharma, Governments and MSM.

It's been a long time since they looked outside of these for answers.

They place their trust in the pillars of society, similar in the same way that Soldiers in the front line did in World War One.

Great post,

Policy seems to be Shoot, Ready, Aim.
God help all the folks employed either directly or indirectly in the hospitality sector.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 23, 2021, 05:22:11 PM
Fools seldom differ
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: joemamas on December 23, 2021, 07:26:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2021, 05:22:11 PM
Fools seldom differ

Hey doom and gloom, is your bunker finished yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 23, 2021, 08:59:44 PM
Quote from: joemamas on December 23, 2021, 07:26:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 23, 2021, 05:22:11 PM
Fools seldom differ

Hey doom and gloom, is your bunker finished yet.
he's posting from the tunnels under Louth key castle
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 23, 2021, 09:31:32 PM
It's not a good post though - it is a ludicrous one...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 23, 2021, 09:53:29 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 23, 2021, 09:31:32 PM
It's not a good post though - it is a ludicrous one...

It's, actually beyond belief that folk believe this kind of nonsense. I wonder how the half dozen or so on here (the 1 poster with the 4/5 accounts is counted as 1) get on with the family / close friends? I know of 1 guy, thinks along these lines (very vocal on social media by all accounts) who hasn't spoken to his immediate family in over a year. A fairly big, close family too. They are all wrong and he has taken himself away from his family because of it. No visit to see the young grand wains this Christmas etc... Utter madness
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 23, 2021, 09:59:16 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 22, 2021, 10:32:56 PMMost on here are now controlled by a higher source. They get their instruction from Big Pharma, Governments and MSM

Holy f**k - I've read it all now - the biggest pile of rubbish I've seen on this place - and that includes Syferus's posts

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 22, 2021, 10:32:56 PMI'd stay away from forums such as this.

There's a logout button at the top of the page - feel free to use it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 23, 2021, 10:02:46 PM
Anti vaxers proving again they're not the sharpest tools in the box.
I wonder is Bryson their legal advisor?😄

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/anti-vaccine-protesters-try-to-serve-legal-papers-on-football-hero-alan-shearer-but-get-wrong-house-41178997.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 23, 2021, 10:24:05 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on December 23, 2021, 09:59:16 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 22, 2021, 10:32:56 PMMost on here are now controlled by a higher source. They get their instruction from Big Pharma, Governments and MSM

Holy f**k - I've read it all now - the biggest pile of rubbish I've seen on this place - and that includes Syferus's posts

Quote from: From the Bunker on December 22, 2021, 10:32:56 PMI'd stay away from forums such as this.

There's a logout button at the top of the page - feel free to use it.
;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on December 24, 2021, 05:39:42 AM
In France 70% of ICU cases are antivax.
It's becoming a huge issue with nurses and doctors.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 24, 2021, 08:28:45 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 22, 2021, 10:32:56 PM
I'd stay away from forums such as this. Most on here are now controlled by a higher source. They get their instruction from Big Pharma, Governments and MSM.


I was going to respond to this utter bullsh!t earlier...

But my 5G earpiece dropped out - I think the signal got blocked by all the radioactivity it was giving off. Or maybe it was being blocked by the ionising radioactive waves from the "blockers" that tinfoil hat retards espoused to protect themselves from 5G.

Anyway, with my earpiece out, I couldn't take instruction from "them" on what to say. Obviously, a pleb like me doesn't know who "they" are - we just get our earpieces and instructions in grey amazon boxes without amazon on the side.... and despite many requests on here, you have refused to fill us in on who "they" are - so I couldn't exactly ring them on the landline.

After extensive research and a hard earning phd in forensic accounting from the university of facebook - I'm still none the wiser as to who "they" are.


But, thankfully, this morning, whatever tinfoil hat retard was blocking my 5G has f*ked off, so they woke me at 5am with instructions on how to respond. See below:

YOU
ARE
A
CLOWN


(While we can poke fun at your intellectual feebleness and laugh at the paranoia - I really hope no one has paid heed to your madness and chosen not to get a vaccine off the back of your crap. It'd be awful to think someone perished from COVID due to the stupidity of you. Thats the saddest part of all this.)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: themac_23 on December 24, 2021, 08:54:47 AM
Is there not a middle ground somewhere? Because that's where I feel I fall. I've been double jabbed and boosted all as soon as I could and not because I wanted to but because I wanted to be doing my bit to help out. But I also look at the stats and feel they are being made out to be worse than they are for effect.

For example the headlines the other day was that in England had the most positive results in a single day and that it was terrible. But when you read it the percentage was circa 8% positive, so actually what that tells us is loads of people who had no symptoms tested before the Christmas holidays doing the responsible thing and this made the numbers higher. Surely this could have been posted as a massive win for the vaccine programme and the fact high numbers wasn't reflected in hospitalisations? I just feel there's so much negativity and that's what is ruining peoples mental health.

I know a fella who has completely changed over covid he's literally afraid of his own shadow, I seen him in the shop one day recently and he was a different man, really sad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 24, 2021, 09:06:56 AM
I would share these views too. This forum represents both sides. Some of the conspiracy rhetoric is bonkers then you have the other extreme who would appear like they live in a bunker.

Hospital cases are on a downward trajectory irrespective of omicron and despite the thoroughly unrealistic expectation that the vaccine would wipe everything out statistics suggest the the vaccine is doing a great job. (Best way to measure I have seen is cases per 100k of vaccinated vs unvaccinated and there is a stark difference).

Based on that I do feel the latest lockdown measures are maybe a bit too much. (I kind of understand that omicron is not about long enough to be fully understood so with sheer volume caution does need to be exercised but vaccine passports etc could / should help alleviate some of that surely?)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 24, 2021, 09:34:57 AM
who are the posters that appear like they live in a Bunkers?

I do know some family/friends etc. who even before covid would be germaphobes so covid hasn't helped that situation and others who are older who have pre existing conditions who in my opinion are righly being overly cautious..

I dont get the selling fear thing, covid in itself is scary to many people... while I think I'd be fine if I got it (although the experience of a board member and seeing the 38 Yr old S&C in Rocommon ending up in hospital makes you think) but biggest fear is passing it to others who then get seriously ill. I would struggle with that

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 24, 2021, 09:48:02 AM
Not you - no problem with your views. In particular rossfan for the bunker comments.

Agreed on the passing it on. Have done a pcr for seeing older relatives over Christmas.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 24, 2021, 10:05:35 AM
+1 guys

We as a family have done what we need to do, but as luck would have it these days, we have another cancer case in our family, this time the mother in law, xmas completely fucked this year again in regards to having everyone round as we don't want to cause any chance of infections and we don't have enough information on how this works on people receiving chemo!

I'm waiting on someone forcing me to do something as Eire guy says happens (full of shite)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 24, 2021, 11:07:51 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 24, 2021, 09:48:02 AM
Not you - no problem with your views. In particular rossfan for the bunker comments.


????
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 24, 2021, 11:33:42 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 24, 2021, 09:48:02 AM
Not you - no problem with your views. In particular rossfan for the bunker comments.

Agreed on the passing it on. Have done a pcr for seeing older relatives over Christmas.

We've just had one of the family test positive this morning so all wider family plans, dinner, secret santa etc have been culled. Disappointing but not the end of the world. We've food in the fridge and coal in the bunker (no pun intended) It's the spreading that worries me too.
To me it's as simple as this, if you don't believe the experts, then you're believing and following folk who are not experts. Cannot get my head around this. Will the anti-vax, Covid down players on here be questioning what GPs and consultants prescribe from now on, doing their own research as the drugs will all be coming from big bad pharma

Any road, hope no-one permanently damages any family ties / friendships over the head of this. Happy Christmas all
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on December 24, 2021, 12:50:37 PM
All you can do is look after yourself & your own.

I genuinely think Covid is on the way out, Omicron will bring chaos for a month or so and then it's all sunlit uplands (until next November).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 24, 2021, 01:46:04 PM
If u going to the dentist, do you want u tooth removed by someone who been trained and qualified to do it or do you want done by some guy who read up on the Internet how to do it. Are the politicians getting it right? Far from it, as their guidance changes like the wind, but I still take the advice of a qualified doctor over Joe Bloggs who read it up on the internet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on December 24, 2021, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 24, 2021, 01:46:04 PM
If u going to the dentist, do you want u tooth removed by someone who been trained and qualified to do it or do you want done by some guy who read up on the Internet how to do it. Are the politicians getting it right? Far from it, as their guidance changes like the wind, but I still take the advice of a qualified doctor over Joe Bloggs who read it up on the internet.

Politicians are getting their advise from Nephet. Nephet do not get a pass on being questioned just because they are experts. Antigen tests not forming part of our response in the last 12 months - that was nephet. The problem is if you ask a question you get labelled as a Facebook loon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 24, 2021, 03:25:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 24, 2021, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 24, 2021, 01:46:04 PM
If u going to the dentist, do you want u tooth removed by someone who been trained and qualified to do it or do you want done by some guy who read up on the Internet how to do it. Are the politicians getting it right? Far from it, as their guidance changes like the wind, but I still take the advice of a qualified doctor over Joe Bloggs who read it up on the internet.

Politicians are getting their advise from Nephet. Nephet do not get a pass on being questioned just because they are experts. Antigen tests not forming part of our response in the last 12 months - that was nephet. The problem is if you ask a question you get labelled as a Facebook loon.
That's because most of the Facebook loons are not qualified to question "experts". They repackage bullshit from grifters and con artists filling their heads full of shite online. Would you want some idiot without 2 brain cells to question your decisions at work based on "research" they did online? 99% of them are morons and need to shut the f**k up. Governments across the globe are being pulled in every direction, most have made mistakes, some have made decisions based on false assumptions and economic reasons over humanitarian reasons, but there is no New World Order, Great Reset or other grand conspiracy pulling the strings.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on December 24, 2021, 03:29:21 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 24, 2021, 03:25:26 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 24, 2021, 02:23:10 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 24, 2021, 01:46:04 PM
If u going to the dentist, do you want u tooth removed by someone who been trained and qualified to do it or do you want done by some guy who read up on the Internet how to do it. Are the politicians getting it right? Far from it, as their guidance changes like the wind, but I still take the advice of a qualified doctor over Joe Bloggs who read it up on the internet.

Politicians are getting their advise from Nephet. Nephet do not get a pass on being questioned just because they are experts. Antigen tests not forming part of our response in the last 12 months - that was nephet. The problem is if you ask a question you get labelled as a Facebook loon.
That's because most of the Facebook loons are not qualified to question "experts". They repackage bullshit from grifters and con artists filling their heads full of shite online. Would you want some idiot without 2 brain cells to question your decisions at work based on "research" they did online? 99% of them are morons and need to shut the f**k up. Governments across the globe are being pulled in every direction, most have made mistakes, some have made decisions based on false assumptions and economic reasons over humanitarian reasons, but there is no New World Order, Great Reset or other grand conspiracy pulling the strings.

Tony Read what I said and then read what you replied. I've no idea why you directed that at me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 24, 2021, 03:33:43 PM
I dont think anyone was called a Facebook loon over questioning NPHET over their opinions on antigen tests... however they have answered this multiple times too..

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on December 24, 2021, 03:34:13 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 24, 2021, 09:34:57 AM
who are the posters that appear like they live in a Bunkers?

I do know some family/friends etc. who even before covid would be germaphobes so covid hasn't helped that situation and others who are older who have pre existing conditions who in my opinion are righly being overly cautious..

I dont get the selling fear thing, covid in itself is scary to many people... while I think I'd be fine if I got it (although the experience of a board member and seeing the 38 Yr old S&C in Rocommon ending up in hospital makes you think) but biggest fear is passing it to others who then get seriously ill. I would struggle with that

And long before covid arrived this was an island of hypochondriacs. The majority of news stations and tabloid newspapers run with the lead story of bad news and again that's the way its been before covid arrived.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on December 24, 2021, 03:48:54 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 24, 2021, 03:33:43 PM
I dont think anyone was called a Facebook loon over questioning NPHET over their opinions on antigen tests... however they have answered this multiple times too..

Tony made my point though. A mild questioning of nphet and thats the type of response you get. Basically you are too stupid to even be allowed ask a question.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on December 24, 2021, 03:53:16 PM
Old Moore predicts another unrelated pandemic this year. And Old Moore has never been wrong.

He also says the unvaccinated will form their own towns. Hopefully Caledon or Lurgan.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 24, 2021, 03:57:11 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 24, 2021, 03:48:54 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 24, 2021, 03:33:43 PM
I dont think anyone was called a Facebook loon over questioning NPHET over their opinions on antigen tests... however they have answered this multiple times too..

Tony made my point though. A mild questioning of nphet and thats the type of response you get. Basically you are too stupid to even be allowed ask a question.
A reasonable line of questioning does no harm but when crackpot conspiracy theories are the reason for questioning decisions then you need to go in the bin. For example the Tories have been useless and made many decisions made out of greed and incompetence - everyone should question those cnuts but when some online loony questions those decisions based on them being controlled by Big Pharma/NWO/World Bank etc. the argument is lost straightaway.

My personal opinion is that vaccines are part of the way forward. They currently aren't perfect but I believe perfection is the enemy of good enough in this instance. Software, buildings etc. are never perfect first time and various iterations generally improve things.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on December 24, 2021, 03:58:38 PM
Quote from: ONeill on December 24, 2021, 03:53:16 PM
Old Moore predicts another unrelated pandemic this year. And Old Moore has never been wrong.

He also says the unvaccinated will form their own towns. Hopefully Caledon or Lurgan.
Predicted Mayo to win the 2021 All-Ireland. Tyrone cheated!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 24, 2021, 04:51:16 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 24, 2021, 02:23:10 PM
Politicians are getting their advise from Nephet. Nephet do not get a pass on being questioned just because they are experts. Antigen tests not forming part of our response in the last 12 months - that was nephet. The problem is if you ask a question you get labelled as a Facebook loon.

They were absolutely right to ignore them.

The quality of the research that justifies their use is quite frankly sh!t.

If your dying of covid, they are quite good (but still not 100%) at telling you that your dying from covid. If your not, taking a cross section of symptomatic and asymptomatic carriers, they aren't much better than 50:50 on telling you whether you have it or not. So really, what kind of check is that?

If you are going to visit an elderly or sick friend or relative, don't rely on a lateral flow for covid protection.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on December 24, 2021, 04:51:25 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 24, 2021, 03:57:11 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 24, 2021, 03:48:54 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 24, 2021, 03:33:43 PM
I dont think anyone was called a Facebook loon over questioning NPHET over their opinions on antigen tests... however they have answered this multiple times too..

Tony made my point though. A mild questioning of nphet and thats the type of response you get. Basically you are too stupid to even be allowed ask a question.
A reasonable line of questioning does no harm but when crackpot conspiracy theories are the reason for questioning decisions then you need to go in the bin. For example the Tories have been useless and made many decisions made out of greed and incompetence - everyone should question those cnuts but when some online loony questions those decisions based on them being controlled by Big Pharma/NWO/World Bank etc. the argument is lost straightaway.

My personal opinion is that vaccines are part of the way forward. They currently aren't perfect but I believe perfection is the enemy of good enough in this instance. Software, buildings etc. are never perfect first time and various iterations generally improve things.

What was unreasonable about what I asked? I'm triple vaccinated, I believe covid is real, I work in medical device manufacturing and have spent the last 2 years keeping covid out of a factory of 1000 people. Am I allowed ask a question? Should vickey phelan be allowed ask questions about the smear scandal, she was just a mere mortal too after all. The fascist right and the conspiracy nuts have hijacked one side of the debate but there seems to me to be people on the other side too not prepared to have any questions asked either.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on December 24, 2021, 04:53:42 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 24, 2021, 04:51:16 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 24, 2021, 02:23:10 PM
Politicians are getting their advise from Nephet. Nephet do not get a pass on being questioned just because they are experts. Antigen tests not forming part of our response in the last 12 months - that was nephet. The problem is if you ask a question you get labelled as a Facebook loon.

They were absolutely right to ignore them.

The quality of the research that justifies their use is quite frankly sh!t.

If your dying of covid, they are quite good (but still not 100%) at telling you that your dying from covid. If your not, taking a cross section of symptomatic and asymptomatic carriers, they aren't much better than 50:50 on telling you whether you have it or not. So really, what kind of check is that?

If you are going to visit an elderly or sick friend or relative, don't rely on a lateral flow for covid protection.

They were never meant to be a replacement for a pcr test but they had their place in the battle and were being used widely in other countries for that purpose. Tony said No and now he says Yes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 24, 2021, 04:59:25 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 24, 2021, 04:53:42 PM
They were never meant to be a replacement for a pcr test but they had their place in the battle and were being used widely in other countries for that purpose. Tony said No and now he says Yes.

I'm not convinced they did.

A negative result on a lateral flow would only lead someone to behave in a manner they wouldn't if they had no test result.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 24, 2021, 05:09:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 24, 2021, 04:53:42 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 24, 2021, 04:51:16 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 24, 2021, 02:23:10 PM
Politicians are getting their advise from Nephet. Nephet do not get a pass on being questioned just because they are experts. Antigen tests not forming part of our response in the last 12 months - that was nephet. The problem is if you ask a question you get labelled as a Facebook loon.

They were absolutely right to ignore them.

The quality of the research that justifies their use is quite frankly sh!t.

If your dying of covid, they are quite good (but still not 100%) at telling you that your dying from covid. If your not, taking a cross section of symptomatic and asymptomatic carriers, they aren't much better than 50:50 on telling you whether you have it or not. So really, what kind of check is that?

If you are going to visit an elderly or sick friend or relative, don't rely on a lateral flow for covid protection.

They were never meant to be a replacement for a pcr test but they had their place in the battle and were being used widely in other countries for that purpose. Tony said No and now he says Yes.

and a quick Google will give the rationales for him doing so.... I have no idea but the antigen test usage I imagine was guided by behavioural science also given the NPHET opinions on them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 24, 2021, 06:40:23 PM
I don't agree with NPHET about the Antigen tests Nevertheless there is a class of c**t that would not stick the yoke in their nose at all and would then claim that their clear test allowed them do what the liked.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on December 24, 2021, 06:54:07 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 24, 2021, 05:09:07 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 24, 2021, 04:53:42 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 24, 2021, 04:51:16 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 24, 2021, 02:23:10 PM
Politicians are getting their advise from Nephet. Nephet do not get a pass on being questioned just because they are experts. Antigen tests not forming part of our response in the last 12 months - that was nephet. The problem is if you ask a question you get labelled as a Facebook loon.

They were absolutely right to ignore them.

The quality of the research that justifies their use is quite frankly sh!t.

If your dying of covid, they are quite good (but still not 100%) at telling you that your dying from covid. If your not, taking a cross section of symptomatic and asymptomatic carriers, they aren't much better than 50:50 on telling you whether you have it or not. So really, what kind of check is that?

If you are going to visit an elderly or sick friend or relative, don't rely on a lateral flow for covid protection.

They were never meant to be a replacement for a pcr test but they had their place in the battle and were being used widely in other countries for that purpose. Tony said No and now he says Yes.

and a quick Google will give the rationales for him doing so.... I have no idea but the antigen test usage I imagine was guided by behavioural science also given the NPHET opinions on them.

So what changed and did Tony have different info than all the other countries of Europe. He seldom gets a genuinely tough interview from our media so we'll probably only know in a few years.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 24, 2021, 08:55:01 PM
The word on the street is Jim Corr has been eating in restaurants that require the vaccine passport. If he got the vaccine that is hilarious  ;
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on December 24, 2021, 09:50:32 PM
What about "Don't look up" on Netflix lads. Anybody watched it yet??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 24, 2021, 09:52:16 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 24, 2021, 08:55:01 PM
The word on the street is Jim Corr has been eating in restaurants that require the vaccine passport. If he got the vaccine that is hilarious  ;
Seen that. The owner of the restaurant was quizzed about and said they make no exemption and that they recall seeing a vaccine passport from the boul Jim.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 25, 2021, 12:04:10 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 24, 2021, 09:52:16 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 24, 2021, 08:55:01 PM
The word on the street is Jim Corr has been eating in restaurants that require the vaccine passport. If he got the vaccine that is hilarious  ;
Seen that. The owner of the restaurant was quizzed about and said they make no exemption and that they recall seeing a vaccine passport from the boul Jim.

Did they check the id against the name on the Covid cert (as they should do)?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 25, 2021, 12:05:56 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 24, 2021, 08:55:01 PM
The word on the street is Jim Corr has been eating in restaurants that require the vaccine passport. If he got the vaccine that is hilarious  ;
a negative lateral flow or proof of infection within last 6 months is the same as vaccine passport, no?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 25, 2021, 12:07:14 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 25, 2021, 12:05:56 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 24, 2021, 08:55:01 PM
The word on the street is Jim Corr has been eating in restaurants that require the vaccine passport. If he got the vaccine that is hilarious  ;
a negative lateral flow or proof of infection within last 6 months is the same as vaccine passport, no?

That's fine if you believe in all that, would Jim be on board with that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 25, 2021, 12:26:55 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 25, 2021, 12:04:10 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 24, 2021, 09:52:16 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 24, 2021, 08:55:01 PM
The word on the street is Jim Corr has been eating in restaurants that require the vaccine passport. If he got the vaccine that is hilarious  ;
Seen that. The owner of the restaurant was quizzed about and said they make no exemption and that they recall seeing a vaccine passport from the boul Jim.

Did they check the id against the name on the Covid cert (as they should do)?
The report said it had his name and they didn't need to check his ID as they recognised him as Jim Corr. See Ziggy's twitter account for the full thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 25, 2021, 12:29:23 AM
What way that work with proof of infection, friend could not get in a hotel today for dinner as they no vacination card/pass but the email notifying her Covid positive test. Said place was empty, which it be normally be busy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 25, 2021, 08:56:28 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 25, 2021, 12:29:23 AM
What way that work with proof of infection, friend could not get in a hotel today for dinner as they no vacination card/pass but the email notifying her Covid positive test. Said place was empty, which it be normally be busy.
Dunno how it is supposed to work but seems a bit silly that she wouldn't be considered a safe bet. We got vouchers for a local restaurant from an in-law and apparently they had to be bought from the owners house as the restaurant was closed due to lack of trade  :(. Hopefully they re-open or the vouchers are scrap!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 25, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 24, 2021, 06:54:07 PM

So what changed and did Tony have different info than all the other countries of Europe. He seldom gets a genuinely tough interview from our media so we'll probably only know in a few years.

That's a good question - and not one I have the answer to.

I'd be far more critical of any decision to use lateral flows than to ignore them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 25, 2021, 01:16:20 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 25, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 24, 2021, 06:54:07 PM

So what changed and did Tony have different info than all the other countries of Europe. He seldom gets a genuinely tough interview from our media so we'll probably only know in a few years.

That's a good question - and not one I have the answer to.

I'd be far more critical of any decision to use lateral flows than to ignore them.

I haven't looked up the what was said at the time but my opinion was that there was alot of people still keeping their contacts to a minimum (NPHET objective) and any encouragement of antigen tests would increase the level of contacts as getting a negative result would be seen as the all clear.

but subsequently contacts were up anyway and people were not minimising contacts, now the objective of NPHET is still the same so the idea is to get antigen tests as at least it should reduce the number of contacts for people with positive results. that's why I mentioned the behavioural science aspect in an early post.

this while NPHET always had concerns over the general publics ability to use antigen test correctly also..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mayoman dan on December 25, 2021, 02:59:24 PM
Lads just a word of caution if anyone is going using a negative antigen test as a green light to meet a load of people over the Christmas period.I had symptoms of COVID from last Monday night.Took an antigen test before work on Tuesday I was all clear.Took another Wednesday morning all clear.Took another Wednesday evening at 6 o clock as I felt my symptoms were getting worse.Again this was a negative result.Half 12 Wednesday night I done another test and it was positive.This result has since been confirmed by a PCR test.In the space of 6 hours my antigen test changed from negative to positive.Spending Christmas in isolation is no fun but bringing COVID home to someone vulnerable would have been a lot worse.If you have any symptoms get a PCR test and stay the f**k away from people...
                             Happy Christmas to all
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on December 25, 2021, 03:16:31 PM
Quote from: mayoman dan on December 25, 2021, 02:59:24 PM
Lads just a word of caution if anyone is going using a negative antigen test as a green light to meet a load of people over the Christmas period.I had symptoms of COVID from last Monday night.Took an antigen test before work on Tuesday I was all clear.Took another Wednesday morning all clear.Took another Wednesday evening at 6 o clock as I felt my symptoms were getting worse.Again this was a negative result.Half 12 Wednesday night I done another test and it was positive.This result has since been confirmed by a PCR test.In the space of 6 hours my antigen test changed from negative to positive.Spending Christmas in isolation is no fun but bringing COVID home to someone vulnerable would have been a lot worse.If you have any symptoms get a PCR test and stay the f**k away from people...
                             Happy Christmas to all

If you have symptoms don't go visiting anyone, don't go to work either. That would be my rule of thumb
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: mayoman dan on December 25, 2021, 03:44:06 PM
I had received my booster dose on Monday.
When I felt bad on Tuesday I thought it was a reaction to the booster as many people I work with had experienced similar.
The negative antigen test then gave me an extra false sense of security
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 25, 2021, 05:24:01 PM
I think the first thing to do is if you have symptoms get a PCR. I hate doing the tests, we do them (lateral flow) every week but never would rely on it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on December 26, 2021, 04:19:08 PM
ROI weekly update.

426 in hospital (ten fewer than last Sunday)
91 in ICU (16 fewer than a week ago)

Highest weekly case number (59147) here since the pandemic began the previous high was in January 45770 and the week ahead will likely bring another big increase in cases.

While much more transmissible fingers crossed this is a milder variant and the high vaccine uptake doesn't bring us back to last January hospital figures or worse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 26, 2021, 04:53:15 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 26, 2021, 04:19:08 PM
ROI weekly update.

426 in hospital (ten fewer than last Sunday)
91 in ICU (16 fewer than a week ago)

Highest weekly case number (59147) here since the pandemic began the previous high was in January 45770 and the week ahead will likely bring another big increase in cases.

While much more transmissible fingers crossed this is a milder variant and the high vaccine uptake doesn't bring us back to last January hospital figures or worse.

Make you think no need for booster or too early to say?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on December 26, 2021, 05:17:37 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on December 26, 2021, 04:19:08 PM
ROI weekly update.

426 in hospital (ten fewer than last Sunday)
91 in ICU (16 fewer than a week ago)

Highest weekly case number (59147) here since the pandemic began the previous high was in January 45770 and the week ahead will likely bring another big increase in cases.

While much more transmissible fingers crossed this is a milder variant and the high vaccine uptake doesn't bring us back to last January hospital figures or worse.
Thanks to vaccination
Even 70% coverage is decent
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on December 26, 2021, 05:21:23 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 26, 2021, 04:53:15 PM

Make you think no need for booster or too early to say?
Won't know for another few weeks if this variant is truly weaker or not though Denmark who have the omicron variant longer than us might give a decent example to what will come.

Denmark has a simliar size population, winter with a lot of indoor mixing and high vaccine uptake and surge in cases. Their hospital numbers are currently half to what it was in their January peak.  Boosting as many as possible especially the vulnerable aged groups before the surge in cases was the sensible approach to take.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 27, 2021, 12:11:30 PM
All North-West testing centres booked out all day. I'd say with high percentage of folk not bothering to wear masks (grown adults not wearing masks has really started to grate on me, arseholes the lot of them, unless genuinely exempt of course) , the amount of socialising and the likes of Anne McCloskey and her growing social media lunatic army (bulging with PTs who are experts in press ups and virology) continuously spreading nonsense, the numbers in Derry City will be off the charts in the next week or 2.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 27, 2021, 12:32:16 PM
Funny you mention masks, I notice at least a 1/3 of people in shops not wearing masks, mostly the younger 20 age group. It hard to enforce when then shop owners didn't refuse to service same persons from day 1.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on December 27, 2021, 03:28:31 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 27, 2021, 12:11:30 PM
All North-West testing centres booked out all day. I'd say with high percentage of folk not bothering to wear masks (grown adults not wearing masks has really started to grate on me, arseholes the lot of them, unless genuinely exempt of course) , the amount of socialising and the likes of Anne McCloskey and her growing social media lunatic army (bulging with PTs who are experts in press ups and virology) continuously spreading nonsense, the numbers in Derry City will be off the charts in the next week or 2.
I was in Derry on Christmas Eve. Couldn't believe the number without masks, seriously the worst I've seen in both the shopping centres.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Norf Tyrone on December 27, 2021, 03:35:40 PM
People don't give a shit any more re masks. Businesses will complain about passports, lockdowns etc etc but won't implement the most basic of measures.
When you're in a shop wear a mask.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 27, 2021, 04:18:20 PM
Quote from: Rois on December 27, 2021, 03:28:31 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 27, 2021, 12:11:30 PM
All North-West testing centres booked out all day. I'd say with high percentage of folk not bothering to wear masks (grown adults not wearing masks has really started to grate on me, arseholes the lot of them, unless genuinely exempt of course) , the amount of socialising and the likes of Anne McCloskey and her growing social media lunatic army (bulging with PTs who are experts in press ups and virology) continuously spreading nonsense, the numbers in Derry City will be off the charts in the next week or 2.
I was in Derry on Christmas Eve. Couldn't believe the number without masks, seriously the worst I've seen in both the shopping centres.

Pubs in Derry just threw table service out window last night if social media pictures are to believed. Rammed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 27, 2021, 04:38:35 PM
Not like Nordies to be misbehaving like bold children ::).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Norf Tyrone on December 27, 2021, 04:52:56 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 27, 2021, 04:18:20 PM
Quote from: Rois on December 27, 2021, 03:28:31 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 27, 2021, 12:11:30 PM
All North-West testing centres booked out all day. I'd say with high percentage of folk not bothering to wear masks (grown adults not wearing masks has really started to grate on me, arseholes the lot of them, unless genuinely exempt of course) , the amount of socialising and the likes of Anne McCloskey and her growing social media lunatic army (bulging with PTs who are experts in press ups and virology) continuously spreading nonsense, the numbers in Derry City will be off the charts in the next week or 2.
I was in Derry on Christmas Eve. Couldn't believe the number without masks, seriously the worst I've seen in both the shopping centres.

Pubs in Derry just threw table service out window last night if social media pictures are to believed. Rammed

Yeah but we'll have the head of hospitality NI saying we should be trusted to operate responsibly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 05:18:07 PM
I have to laugh at Tony H. telling us all what to do? It's like a video analyst shouting from the stands over the Manager instructions to a team on the field of play!

Fearmonkers, How is the Casedemic coming along? Sure ye'll be alright ye have had 3 shots to save yourselves from it.  ;D

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 05:37:57 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Exj-M8BXIAQemvC?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2021, 06:04:18 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 05:37:57 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Exj-M8BXIAQemvC?format=jpg&name=small)

It's crazy that we get misleading information !!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:08:10 PM
Your crowd i'd do anything to get young kids to line up for Vaccinations.

Even over hype a variant from Africa!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 27, 2021, 06:29:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:08:10 PM
Your crowd i'd do anything to get young kids to line up for Vaccinations.

Even over hype a variant from Africa!

I know, imagine giving kids vaccines? Like trusting the experts, utter madness. In all seriousness, if social media, online grifters etc were around when the MMR was first being administered, folk as gullible as yourself would have brought the percentage way down causing untold additional deaths. Daft beyond belief

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 06:34:00 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:08:10 PM
Your crowd i'd do anything to get young kids to line up for Vaccinations.

Even over hype a variant from Africa!

Take a day off and spend some time with people that give a fuk about you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 27, 2021, 06:29:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:08:10 PM
Your crowd i'd do anything to get young kids to line up for Vaccinations.

Even over hype a variant from Africa!

I know, imagine giving kids vaccines? Like trusting the experts, utter madness. In all seriousness, if social media, online grifters etc were around when the MMR was first being administered, folk as gullible as yourself would have brought the percentage way down causing untold additional deaths. Daft beyond belief

Yes image giving perfectly healthy - not at risk kids vaccines. Vaccines that are still at trial stage. Now that is reckless!

Fcuk me, it bad enough giving the a mix mash cocktail of different vaccines from different producers to mature people. God only knows who you go to, to blame if things go wrong?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 06:34:00 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:08:10 PM
Your crowd i'd do anything to get young kids to line up for Vaccinations.

Even over hype a variant from Africa!

Take a day off and spend some time with people that give a fuk about you.

Is that all you have to add?  ;D

You could always run to Gaaboardmod3 if the narrative does not suit?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 27, 2021, 06:42:25 PM
See comments re Firbolg descendants in Joe Brolly thread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 06:46:52 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 06:34:00 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:08:10 PM
Your crowd i'd do anything to get young kids to line up for Vaccinations.

Even over hype a variant from Africa!

Take a day off and spend some time with people that give a fuk about you.

Is that all you have to add?  ;D

You could always run to Gaaboardmod3 if the narrative does not suit?

No but it's pointless at this point. You'll continue dismiss the truth and counter arguments for your lies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 27, 2021, 06:48:58 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 27, 2021, 06:29:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:08:10 PM
Your crowd i'd do anything to get young kids to line up for Vaccinations.

Even over hype a variant from Africa!

I know, imagine giving kids vaccines? Like trusting the experts, utter madness. In all seriousness, if social media, online grifters etc were around when the MMR was first being administered, folk as gullible as yourself would have brought the percentage way down causing untold additional deaths. Daft beyond belief

Yes image giving perfectly healthy - not at risk kids vaccines. Vaccines that are still at trial stage. Now that is reckless!

Fcuk me, it bad enough giving the a mix mash cocktail of different vaccines from different producers to mature people. God only knows who you go to, to blame if things go wrong?

You're believing and following people who are NOT experts, utter lunacy. As I said a few posts back, don't go ruining family ties and friendships over this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on December 27, 2021, 06:52:29 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 27, 2021, 06:29:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:08:10 PM
Your crowd i'd do anything to get young kids to line up for Vaccinations.

Even over hype a variant from Africa!

I know, imagine giving kids vaccines? Like trusting the experts, utter madness. In all seriousness, if social media, online grifters etc were around when the MMR was first being administered, folk as gullible as yourself would have brought the percentage way down causing untold additional deaths. Daft beyond belief

Yes image giving perfectly healthy - not at risk kids vaccines. Vaccines that are still at trial stage. Now that is reckless!

Fcuk me, it bad enough giving the a mix mash cocktail of different vaccines from different producers to mature people. God only knows who you go to, to blame if things go wrong?

Still at trial stage? What sort of bollox are you talking. Do you know anything about what it takes to get a medicine approved?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:54:50 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 06:46:52 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 06:34:00 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:08:10 PM
Your crowd i'd do anything to get young kids to line up for Vaccinations.

Even over hype a variant from Africa!

Take a day off and spend some time with people that give a fuk about you.

Is that all you have to add?  ;D

You could always run to Gaaboardmod3 if the narrative does not suit?

No but it's pointless at this point. You'll continue dismiss the truth and counter arguments for your lies.

Where are my lies?

I have just given my thoughts on what is happening.

Thoughts that any concerned Parent, Civilian, thinking person might ask?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 27, 2021, 06:56:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 06:34:00 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:08:10 PM
Your crowd i'd do anything to get young kids to line up for Vaccinations.

Even over hype a variant from Africa!

Take a day off and spend some time with people that give a fuk about you.

Is that all you have to add?  ;D

You could always run to Gaaboardmod3 if the narrative does not suit?

You said something like "that's the last I'll say on this" pages ago. You would probably be better heeding your own advice.

If you're anti vaccine etc fair enough but you have bought into lunacy. It's not due to superior critical thinking ability - it's lunacy.

It's like turning on Twitter and people tweeting about their hairdresser telling the about all these people having cardiac issues post vaccine. Utter nonsense.

(I am sure there are people who have had issues but not multiple from one hairdresser especially when you see the same tweet from different sources in different parts of the world. People, you included, are buying into this nonsense.)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 07:02:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 27, 2021, 06:52:29 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 27, 2021, 06:29:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:08:10 PM
Your crowd i'd do anything to get young kids to line up for Vaccinations.

Even over hype a variant from Africa!

I know, imagine giving kids vaccines? Like trusting the experts, utter madness. In all seriousness, if social media, online grifters etc were around when the MMR was first being administered, folk as gullible as yourself would have brought the percentage way down causing untold additional deaths. Daft beyond belief

Yes image giving perfectly healthy - not at risk kids vaccines. Vaccines that are still at trial stage. Now that is reckless!

Fcuk me, it bad enough giving the a mix mash cocktail of different vaccines from different producers to mature people. God only knows who you go to, to blame if things go wrong?

Still at trial stage? What sort of bollox are you talking. Do you know anything about what it takes to get a medicine approved?

As far as i know for Pfizer the estimated date is the end of January 2023  and  Moderna is the end of October 2022 . Both were rushed through because of the emergency and hence governments had to sign off on liability.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 07:03:54 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:54:50 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 06:46:52 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:38:46 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 06:34:00 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:08:10 PM
Your crowd i'd do anything to get young kids to line up for Vaccinations.

Even over hype a variant from Africa!

Take a day off and spend some time with people that give a fuk about you.

Is that all you have to add?  ;D

You could always run to Gaaboardmod3 if the narrative does not suit?

No but it's pointless at this point. You'll continue dismiss the truth and counter arguments for your lies.

Where are my lies?

I have just given my thoughts on what is happening.

Thoughts that any concerned Parent, Civilian, thinking person might ask?

Vaccine at trial stage. That's a lie
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 27, 2021, 07:04:39 PM
Wouldn't be on giving vaccine to any children not at risk myself if the virus doesn't overall affect them. The giving out of a vaccine seems to be coming a cropper with this variant running through vaccinated and unvaccinated. I got vacinated and booster and had the flu jab every Yr past 10/12yrs but 1, picked up the flu only once in that time.(not the Yr I didn't get it) but this virus is now rampant unlike the flu and u look like u get it, jabbed or not. And I be in the at risk category. They do not note enough now the death rate and hospital admissions, like last Yr, and focus on the affected rate, but surely the % hospitalised compared to infected rate is way down from last, but if u watch the news you if this year was alot worse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 07:08:30 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 07:02:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 27, 2021, 06:52:29 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 27, 2021, 06:29:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:08:10 PM
Your crowd i'd do anything to get young kids to line up for Vaccinations.

Even over hype a variant from Africa!

I know, imagine giving kids vaccines? Like trusting the experts, utter madness. In all seriousness, if social media, online grifters etc were around when the MMR was first being administered, folk as gullible as yourself would have brought the percentage way down causing untold additional deaths. Daft beyond belief

Yes image giving perfectly healthy - not at risk kids vaccines. Vaccines that are still at trial stage. Now that is reckless!

Fcuk me, it bad enough giving the a mix mash cocktail of different vaccines from different producers to mature people. God only knows who you go to, to blame if things go wrong?

Still at trial stage? What sort of bollox are you talking. Do you know anything about what it takes to get a medicine approved?

As far as i know for Pfizer the estimated date is the end of January 2023  and  Moderna is the end of October 2022 . Both were rushed through because of the emergency and hence governments had to sign off on liability.

As far as you know..... this a pretty standard post approval to monitor vaccines or drugs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on December 27, 2021, 07:28:15 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 27, 2021, 06:29:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:08:10 PM
Your crowd i'd do anything to get young kids to line up for Vaccinations.

Even over hype a variant from Africa!

I know, imagine giving kids vaccines? Like trusting the experts, utter madness. In all seriousness, if social media, online grifters etc were around when the MMR was first being administered, folk as gullible as yourself would have brought the percentage way down causing untold additional deaths. Daft beyond belief

Yes image giving perfectly healthy - not at risk kids vaccines. Vaccines that are still at trial stage. Now that is reckless!

Fcuk me, it bad enough giving the a mix mash cocktail of different vaccines from different producers to mature people. God only knows who you go to, to blame if things go wrong?

Trial stage? Are people still peddling this lie?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Baile Brigín 2 on December 27, 2021, 07:29:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 07:02:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 27, 2021, 06:52:29 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 27, 2021, 06:29:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:08:10 PM
Your crowd i'd do anything to get young kids to line up for Vaccinations.

Even over hype a variant from Africa!

I know, imagine giving kids vaccines? Like trusting the experts, utter madness. In all seriousness, if social media, online grifters etc were around when the MMR was first being administered, folk as gullible as yourself would have brought the percentage way down causing untold additional deaths. Daft beyond belief

Yes image giving perfectly healthy - not at risk kids vaccines. Vaccines that are still at trial stage. Now that is reckless!

Fcuk me, it bad enough giving the a mix mash cocktail of different vaccines from different producers to mature people. God only knows who you go to, to blame if things go wrong?

Still at trial stage? What sort of bollox are you talking. Do you know anything about what it takes to get a medicine approved?

As far as i know for Pfizer the estimated date is the end of January 2023  and  Moderna is the end of October 2022 . Both were rushed through because of the emergency and hence governments had to sign off on liability.

Estimated dates for what? Be clear please.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 27, 2021, 07:31:43 PM
Rates of COVID-19 Cases and Deaths by Vaccination Status per the CDC:

Unvaccinated: 451 cases per 100k
Vaccinated: 134 cases per 100k
Boosted: 48 cases per 100k

Unvaccinated: 6.1 deaths per 100k
Vaccinated: 0.5 deaths per 100k
Boosted: 0.1 deaths per 100k
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 07:34:37 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on December 27, 2021, 07:29:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 07:02:59 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 27, 2021, 06:52:29 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 27, 2021, 06:29:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 06:08:10 PM
Your crowd i'd do anything to get young kids to line up for Vaccinations.

Even over hype a variant from Africa!

I know, imagine giving kids vaccines? Like trusting the experts, utter madness. In all seriousness, if social media, online grifters etc were around when the MMR was first being administered, folk as gullible as yourself would have brought the percentage way down causing untold additional deaths. Daft beyond belief

Yes image giving perfectly healthy - not at risk kids vaccines. Vaccines that are still at trial stage. Now that is reckless!

Fcuk me, it bad enough giving the a mix mash cocktail of different vaccines from different producers to mature people. God only knows who you go to, to blame if things go wrong?

Still at trial stage? What sort of bollox are you talking. Do you know anything about what it takes to get a medicine approved?

As far as i know for Pfizer the estimated date is the end of January 2023  and  Moderna is the end of October 2022 . Both were rushed through because of the emergency and hence governments had to sign off on liability.

Estimated dates for what? Be clear please.

Sorry, there is no trial period. My mistake. How could there be a trial period. There was no time?

My apologies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
care to explain how vaccines or drugs are approved generally and timeframes and what impacts timeframes?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 08:58:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
care to explain how vaccines or drugs are approved generally and timeframes and what impacts timeframes?

I'd say they take usually longer than a year? Wouldn't you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:04:50 PM
Read on World Stats that there has been 8.7 Billion Vaccines administered. That's a lot of production in 12 months.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 09:05:46 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 08:58:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
care to explain how vaccines or drugs are approved generally and timeframes and what impacts timeframes?

I'd say they take usually longer than a year? Wouldn't you?

I'd probably research it before making big assumptions... so I was looking for something more substantial than your response. Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it wrong or questionable...

I have researched it and you should too... maybe look at number of people who came forward for trials/testing compared to other drugs to start with and how quickly they came forward as a starting point!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 27, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 08:58:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
care to explain how vaccines or drugs are approved generally and timeframes and what impacts timeframes?

I'd say they take usually longer than a year? Wouldn't you?

They do, not least because there isn't a hurry and neither companies nor regulators need to move quickly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 27, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 08:58:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
care to explain how vaccines or drugs are approved generally and timeframes and what impacts timeframes?

I'd say they take usually longer than a year? Wouldn't you?

They do, not least because there isn't a hurry and neither companies nor regulators need to move quickly.

What your saying basically in this case corners had to be cut. It was/is an emergency.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 09:21:19 PM
no it's called prioritisation... very common in all industries...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:22:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 27, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 08:58:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
care to explain how vaccines or drugs are approved generally and timeframes and what impacts timeframes?

I'd say they take usually longer than a year? Wouldn't you?

They do, not least because there isn't a hurry and neither companies nor regulators need to move quickly.

What your saying basically in this case corners had to be cut. It was/is an emergency.

No it doesn't.... the process of approving vaccines was expedited over everything else because we are in a global pandemic. They still went through the same due diligence.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:25:09 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:22:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 27, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 08:58:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
care to explain how vaccines or drugs are approved generally and timeframes and what impacts timeframes?

I'd say they take usually longer than a year? Wouldn't you?

They do, not least because there isn't a hurry and neither companies nor regulators need to move quickly.

What your saying basically in this case corners had to be cut. It was/is an emergency.

No it doesn't.... the process of approving vaccines was expedited over everything else because we are in a global pandemic. They still went through the same due diligence.

But in a shorter timeframe.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:28:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:25:09 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:22:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 27, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 08:58:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
care to explain how vaccines or drugs are approved generally and timeframes and what impacts timeframes?

I'd say they take usually longer than a year? Wouldn't you?

They do, not least because there isn't a hurry and neither companies nor regulators need to move quickly.

What your saying basically in this case corners had to be cut. It was/is an emergency.

No it doesn't.... the process of approving vaccines was expedited over everything else because we are in a global pandemic. They still went through the same due diligence.

But in a shorter timeframe.

No but again how many times does this have to be explained
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 27, 2021, 09:33:09 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 27, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 08:58:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
care to explain how vaccines or drugs are approved generally and timeframes and what impacts timeframes?

I'd say they take usually longer than a year? Wouldn't you?

They do, not least because there isn't a hurry and neither companies nor regulators need to move quickly.

What your saying basically in this case corners had to be cut. It was/is an emergency.

No, I am not. Companies have multiple drugs on the go, regulators have multiple approvals to attend to.
Other posters have used the words expedited and prioritisation, people pushed through the Covid drugs and made the drugs for less common and less threatening diseases wait, and rightly so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:41:47 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:28:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:25:09 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:22:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 27, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 08:58:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
care to explain how vaccines or drugs are approved generally and timeframes and what impacts timeframes?

I'd say they take usually longer than a year? Wouldn't you?

They do, not least because there isn't a hurry and neither companies nor regulators need to move quickly.

What your saying basically in this case corners had to be cut. It was/is an emergency.

No it doesn't.... the process of approving vaccines was expedited over everything else because we are in a global pandemic. They still went through the same due diligence.

But in a shorter timeframe.

No but again how many times does this have to be explained

Anyway back to the 8.7 Billion Vaccines that have been administered. That's a lot of production in 12 months. How do they do it with a new drug and keep all the other drugs on the go? It's a lot of production in a short period of time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2021, 09:47:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:41:47 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:28:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:25:09 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:22:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 27, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 08:58:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
care to explain how vaccines or drugs are approved generally and timeframes and what impacts timeframes?

I'd say they take usually longer than a year? Wouldn't you?

They do, not least because there isn't a hurry and neither companies nor regulators need to move quickly.

What your saying basically in this case corners had to be cut. It was/is an emergency.

No it doesn't.... the process of approving vaccines was expedited over everything else because we are in a global pandemic. They still went through the same due diligence.

But in a shorter timeframe.

No but again how many times does this have to be explained

Anyway back to the 8.7 Billion Vaccines that have been administered. That's a lot of production in 12 months. How do they do it with a new drug and keep all the other drugs on the go? It's a lot of production in a short period of time.

I've a friend who's a production manager in a local pharmaceutical company, they are working  shifts around the clock, that's how they do it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:53:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2021, 09:47:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:41:47 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:28:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:25:09 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:22:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 27, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 08:58:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
care to explain how vaccines or drugs are approved generally and timeframes and what impacts timeframes?

I'd say they take usually longer than a year? Wouldn't you?

They do, not least because there isn't a hurry and neither companies nor regulators need to move quickly.

What your saying basically in this case corners had to be cut. It was/is an emergency.

No it doesn't.... the process of approving vaccines was expedited over everything else because we are in a global pandemic. They still went through the same due diligence.

But in a shorter timeframe.

No but again how many times does this have to be explained

Anyway back to the 8.7 Billion Vaccines that have been administered. That's a lot of production in 12 months. How do they do it with a new drug and keep all the other drugs on the go? It's a lot of production in a short period of time.

I've a friend who's a production manager in a local pharmaceutical company, they are working  shifts around the clock, that's how they do it

My humble Mathematics works out that if one Pharmaceutical firm made One Billion Vaccinations and it took them one second to make each vaccine shot - it would take them 33 years to make a Billion Vaccines shots.

I'm sure with all the processes that each Vaccine shot gets more than one second allocated to it in the production process.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 10:00:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:41:47 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:28:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:25:09 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:22:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 27, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 08:58:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
care to explain how vaccines or drugs are approved generally and timeframes and what impacts timeframes?

I'd say they take usually longer than a year? Wouldn't you?

They do, not least because there isn't a hurry and neither companies nor regulators need to move quickly.

What your saying basically in this case corners had to be cut. It was/is an emergency.

No it doesn't.... the process of approving vaccines was expedited over everything else because we are in a global pandemic. They still went through the same due diligence.

But in a shorter timeframe.

No but again how many times does this have to be explained

Anyway back to the 8.7 Billion Vaccines that have been administered. That's a lot of production in 12 months. How do they do it with a new drug and keep all the other drugs on the go? It's a lot of production in a short period of time.

No it's not when most of the manufacturing is outsourced but again you are clutching as you haven't a clue. So now you are disputing it's Impossible to manufacture globally the number of vaccines? Yet you have nothing to back up that assumption.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 10:04:16 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:53:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2021, 09:47:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:41:47 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:28:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:25:09 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:22:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 27, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 08:58:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
care to explain how vaccines or drugs are approved generally and timeframes and what impacts timeframes?

I'd say they take usually longer than a year? Wouldn't you?

They do, not least because there isn't a hurry and neither companies nor regulators need to move quickly.

What your saying basically in this case corners had to be cut. It was/is an emergency.

No it doesn't.... the process of approving vaccines was expedited over everything else because we are in a global pandemic. They still went through the same due diligence.

But in a shorter timeframe.

No but again how many times does this have to be explained

Anyway back to the 8.7 Billion Vaccines that have been administered. That's a lot of production in 12 months. How do they do it with a new drug and keep all the other drugs on the go? It's a lot of production in a short period of time.

I've a friend who's a production manager in a local pharmaceutical company, they are working  shifts around the clock, that's how they do it

My humble Mathematics works out that if one Pharmaceutical firm made One Billion Vaccinations and it took them one second to make each vaccine shot - it would take them 33 years to make a Billion Vaccines shots.

I'm sure with all the processes that each Vaccine shot gets more than one second allocated to it in the production process.

Yeah but pharmaceutical firms outsource the manufacturing to multiple plants. You really haven't a clue how the industry works.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 10:08:54 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 10:00:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:41:47 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:28:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:25:09 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:22:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 27, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 08:58:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
care to explain how vaccines or drugs are approved generally and timeframes and what impacts timeframes?

I'd say they take usually longer than a year? Wouldn't you?

They do, not least because there isn't a hurry and neither companies nor regulators need to move quickly.

What your saying basically in this case corners had to be cut. It was/is an emergency.

No it doesn't.... the process of approving vaccines was expedited over everything else because we are in a global pandemic. They still went through the same due diligence.

But in a shorter timeframe.

No but again how many times does this have to be explained

Anyway back to the 8.7 Billion Vaccines that have been administered. That's a lot of production in 12 months. How do they do it with a new drug and keep all the other drugs on the go? It's a lot of production in a short period of time.

No it's not when most of the manufacturing is outsourced but again you are clutching as you haven't a clue. So now you are disputing it's Impossible to manufacture globally the number of vaccines? Yet you have nothing to back up that assumption.

I have mathematics to back up the assumption.  A Billion is a very big number. Try counting to it sometime? It will take you more than likely 33 years!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 10:15:26 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 10:08:54 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 10:00:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:41:47 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:28:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:25:09 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:22:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 27, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 08:58:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
care to explain how vaccines or drugs are approved generally and timeframes and what impacts timeframes?

I'd say they take usually longer than a year? Wouldn't you?

They do, not least because there isn't a hurry and neither companies nor regulators need to move quickly.

What your saying basically in this case corners had to be cut. It was/is an emergency.

No it doesn't.... the process of approving vaccines was expedited over everything else because we are in a global pandemic. They still went through the same due diligence.

But in a shorter timeframe.

No but again how many times does this have to be explained

Anyway back to the 8.7 Billion Vaccines that have been administered. That's a lot of production in 12 months. How do they do it with a new drug and keep all the other drugs on the go? It's a lot of production in a short period of time.

No it's not when most of the manufacturing is outsourced but again you are clutching as you haven't a clue. So now you are disputing it's Impossible to manufacture globally the number of vaccines? Yet you have nothing to back up that assumption.

I have mathematics to back up the assumption.  A Billion is a very big number. Try counting to it sometime? It will take you more than likely 33 years!

don't Google aspirin, you won't be able to comprehend the mathematics....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 27, 2021, 10:16:49 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:53:22 PM
My humble Mathematics works out that if one Pharmaceutical firm made One Billion Vaccinations and it took them one second to make each vaccine shot - it would take them 33 years to make a Billion Vaccines shots.

I'm sure with all the processes that each Vaccine shot gets more than one second allocated to it in the production process.

Yet 1.5 billion flu vaccines are produced annually without any particular panic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on December 27, 2021, 10:18:18 PM
Is the problem with the mathematical equation not that you assume each vaccine shot requires a distinct period of time. If it takes 1 second to make 1 shot or 1000 shots all being made simultaneously then the maths as it's portrayed here falls apart.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 10:26:54 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on December 27, 2021, 10:18:18 PM
Is the problem with the mathematical equation not that you assume each vaccine shot requires a distinct period of time. If it takes 1 second to make 1 shot or 1000 shots all being made simultaneously then the maths as it's portrayed here falls apart.

Good Point!

But how long does it take to make 1000 shots (if that is a batch), surely more than 16 minutes (1000 seconds). Think of all the processes it still has to go through.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on December 27, 2021, 10:29:35 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 10:26:54 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on December 27, 2021, 10:18:18 PM
Is the problem with the mathematical equation not that you assume each vaccine shot requires a distinct period of time. If it takes 1 second to make 1 shot or 1000 shots all being made simultaneously then the maths as it's portrayed here falls apart.

Good Point!

But how long does it take to make 1000 shots (if that is a batch), surely more than 16 minutes (1000 seconds). Think of all the processes it still has to go through.

I used the figures to illustrate my point. I've no idea either a how long it takes to make 1 shot or b how many shots can be manufactured simultaneously although I assume it's considerably more than 1. The point I make is without that info I don't think any weight can be placed on that mathematical model.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 10:34:58 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on December 27, 2021, 10:29:35 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 10:26:54 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on December 27, 2021, 10:18:18 PM
Is the problem with the mathematical equation not that you assume each vaccine shot requires a distinct period of time. If it takes 1 second to make 1 shot or 1000 shots all being made simultaneously then the maths as it's portrayed here falls apart.

Good Point!

But how long does it take to make 1000 shots (if that is a batch), surely more than 16 minutes (1000 seconds). Think of all the processes it still has to go through.

I used the figures to illustrate my point. I've no idea either a how long it takes to make 1 shot or b how many shots can be manufactured simultaneously although I assume it's considerably more than 1. The point I make is without that info I don't think any weight can be placed on that mathematical model.

Fair enough. My point is that Vaccines are not made Willy-Nilly, they take time to be produced and to produce large quantities, as in in the Billions takes a considerable amount of time. I have only dealt with the hypotheses of 1 Billion - there has been 8.7 Billion consumed so far.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on December 27, 2021, 10:41:20 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:53:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2021, 09:47:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:41:47 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:28:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:25:09 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:22:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 27, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 08:58:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
care to explain how vaccines or drugs are approved generally and timeframes and what impacts timeframes?

I'd say they take usually longer than a year? Wouldn't you?

They do, not least because there isn't a hurry and neither companies nor regulators need to move quickly.

What your saying basically in this case corners had to be cut. It was/is an emergency.

No it doesn't.... the process of approving vaccines was expedited over everything else because we are in a global pandemic. They still went through the same due diligence.

But in a shorter timeframe.

No but again how many times does this have to be explained

Anyway back to the 8.7 Billion Vaccines that have been administered. That's a lot of production in 12 months. How do they do it with a new drug and keep all the other drugs on the go? It's a lot of production in a short period of time.

I've a friend who's a production manager in a local pharmaceutical company, they are working  shifts around the clock, that's how they do it

My humble Mathematics works out that if one Pharmaceutical firm made One Billion Vaccinations and it took them one second to make each vaccine shot - it would take them 33 years to make a Billion Vaccines shots.

I'm sure with all the processes that each Vaccine shot gets more than one second allocated to it in the production process.
My humble mathematics works out that if a house takes 12 months to build there could have only been 21 houses made this century.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 10:46:19 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 10:34:58 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on December 27, 2021, 10:29:35 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 10:26:54 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on December 27, 2021, 10:18:18 PM
Is the problem with the mathematical equation not that you assume each vaccine shot requires a distinct period of time. If it takes 1 second to make 1 shot or 1000 shots all being made simultaneously then the maths as it's portrayed here falls apart.

Good Point!

But how long does it take to make 1000 shots (if that is a batch), surely more than 16 minutes (1000 seconds). Think of all the processes it still has to go through.

I used the figures to illustrate my point. I've no idea either a how long it takes to make 1 shot or b how many shots can be manufactured simultaneously although I assume it's considerably more than 1. The point I make is without that info I don't think any weight can be placed on that mathematical model.

Fair enough. My point is that Vaccines are not made Willy-Nilly, they take time to be produced and to produce large quantities, as in in the Billions takes a considerable amount of time. I have only dealt with the hypotheses of 1 Billion - there has been 8.7 Billion consumed so far.

You're an idiot
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 10:49:36 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 10:46:19 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 10:34:58 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on December 27, 2021, 10:29:35 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 10:26:54 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on December 27, 2021, 10:18:18 PM
Is the problem with the mathematical equation not that you assume each vaccine shot requires a distinct period of time. If it takes 1 second to make 1 shot or 1000 shots all being made simultaneously then the maths as it's portrayed here falls apart.

Good Point!

But how long does it take to make 1000 shots (if that is a batch), surely more than 16 minutes (1000 seconds). Think of all the processes it still has to go through.

I used the figures to illustrate my point. I've no idea either a how long it takes to make 1 shot or b how many shots can be manufactured simultaneously although I assume it's considerably more than 1. The point I make is without that info I don't think any weight can be placed on that mathematical model.

Fair enough. My point is that Vaccines are not made Willy-Nilly, they take time to be produced and to produce large quantities, as in in the Billions takes a considerable amount of time. I have only dealt with the hypotheses of 1 Billion - there has been 8.7 Billion consumed so far.

Your an idiot

Did you have to resort to name calling?  :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 10:51:22 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on December 27, 2021, 10:41:20 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:53:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 27, 2021, 09:47:45 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:41:47 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:28:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:25:09 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 27, 2021, 09:22:44 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 09:09:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 27, 2021, 09:06:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 27, 2021, 08:58:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 27, 2021, 08:55:02 PM
care to explain how vaccines or drugs are approved generally and timeframes and what impacts timeframes?

I'd say they take usually longer than a year? Wouldn't you?

They do, not least because there isn't a hurry and neither companies nor regulators need to move quickly.

What your saying basically in this case corners had to be cut. It was/is an emergency.

No it doesn't.... the process of approving vaccines was expedited over everything else because we are in a global pandemic. They still went through the same due diligence.

But in a shorter timeframe.

No but again how many times does this have to be explained

Anyway back to the 8.7 Billion Vaccines that have been administered. That's a lot of production in 12 months. How do they do it with a new drug and keep all the other drugs on the go? It's a lot of production in a short period of time.

I've a friend who's a production manager in a local pharmaceutical company, they are working  shifts around the clock, that's how they do it

My humble Mathematics works out that if one Pharmaceutical firm made One Billion Vaccinations and it took them one second to make each vaccine shot - it would take them 33 years to make a Billion Vaccines shots.

I'm sure with all the processes that each Vaccine shot gets more than one second allocated to it in the production process.
My humble mathematics works out that if a house takes 12 months to build there could have only been 21 houses made this century.

Yeah, that seem on the ball. If you Build one house in a year - you'll build on average 21 houses in 21 years.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 28, 2021, 11:39:20 AM
Things must be bad, there are no PCR tests available in Derry at all
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 28, 2021, 11:42:15 AM
Bunker you starting to pollute this page, you went from trying to argue a stand point no matter if people agree with it or not, to talking absolute crap. There many things about Covid 19 am not happy with, and got a number of questions about the virus and govt mishandlings but I try to look as if am not losing touch with reality, as at the end of the day am not a doctor/ scientist as I have to go on their professional advice and not on shit been posted on Facebook by persons unqualified who just happy to share their rantings for attention. Hell I know one of the main leaders of the anti vac in the North and I can't understand the crazy attitude, person lost tons of friends.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 28, 2021, 11:48:37 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 28, 2021, 11:42:15 AM
Bunker you starting to pollute this page, you went from trying to argue a stand point no matter if people agree with it or not, to talking absolute crap. There many things about Covid 19 am not happy with, and got a number of questions about the virus and govt mishandlings but I try to look as if am not losing touch with reality, as at the end of the day am not a doctor/ scientist as I have to go on their professional advice and not on shit been posted on Facebook by persons unqualified who just happy to share their rantings for attention. Hell I know one of the main leaders of the anti vac in the North and I can't understand the crazy attitude, person lost tons of friends.

Kearney? Absolute moon man
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 28, 2021, 11:50:34 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 28, 2021, 11:39:20 AM
Things must be bad, there are no PCR tests available in Derry at all

Impossible to get a same day test now Fear. This afternoon they'll open up slots for tomorrow. Be quick though, Du Pont was heaving this morning
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 28, 2021, 11:55:18 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 28, 2021, 11:50:34 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 28, 2021, 11:39:20 AM
Things must be bad, there are no PCR tests available in Derry at all

Impossible to get a same day test now Fear. This afternoon they'll open up slots for tomorrow. Be quick though, Du Pont was heaving this morning

Thanks for that , appreciated
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 28, 2021, 04:22:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 28, 2021, 11:42:15 AM
Bunker you starting to pollute this page, you went from trying to argue a stand point no matter if people agree with it or not, to talking absolute crap. There many things about Covid 19 am not happy with, and got a number of questions about the virus and govt mishandlings but I try to look as if am not losing touch with reality, as at the end of the day am not a doctor/ scientist as I have to go on their professional advice and not on shit been posted on Facebook by persons unqualified who just happy to share their rantings for attention. Hell I know one of the main leaders of the anti vac in the North and I can't understand the crazy attitude, person lost tons of friends.

Yes, there are a lot of Nutjobs/influencers using Covid for their own agenda(s). That does not mean we ignore, belittle or not question. I asked a few questions? I'm sorry if that does not flow with the tide. I remember Luke O'Neill saying how slow the Vaccination production process would be this time last year. There would be so many obstacles, processes and so on to get through. After an initial skirmish to get vaccines, everything seemed to flow pretty easily.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 28, 2021, 04:48:46 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 28, 2021, 04:22:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 28, 2021, 11:42:15 AM
Bunker you starting to pollute this page, you went from trying to argue a stand point no matter if people agree with it or not, to talking absolute crap. There many things about Covid 19 am not happy with, and got a number of questions about the virus and govt mishandlings but I try to look as if am not losing touch with reality, as at the end of the day am not a doctor/ scientist as I have to go on their professional advice and not on shit been posted on Facebook by persons unqualified who just happy to share their rantings for attention. Hell I know one of the main leaders of the anti vac in the North and I can't understand the crazy attitude, person lost tons of friends.

Yes, there are a lot of Nutjobs/influencers using Covid for their own agenda(s). That does not mean we ignore, belittle or not question. I asked a few questions? I'm sorry if that does not flow with the tide. I remember Luke O'Neill saying how slow the Vaccination production process would be this time last year. There would be so many obstacles, processes and so on to get through. After an initial skirmish to get vaccines, everything seemed to flow pretty easily.

Do you think that only a tenth of the vaccines given are actually a vaccine snd the rest nothing?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 28, 2021, 05:10:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 28, 2021, 04:48:46 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 28, 2021, 04:22:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 28, 2021, 11:42:15 AM
Bunker you starting to pollute this page, you went from trying to argue a stand point no matter if people agree with it or not, to talking absolute crap. There many things about Covid 19 am not happy with, and got a number of questions about the virus and govt mishandlings but I try to look as if am not losing touch with reality, as at the end of the day am not a doctor/ scientist as I have to go on their professional advice and not on shit been posted on Facebook by persons unqualified who just happy to share their rantings for attention. Hell I know one of the main leaders of the anti vac in the North and I can't understand the crazy attitude, person lost tons of friends.

Yes, there are a lot of Nutjobs/influencers using Covid for their own agenda(s). That does not mean we ignore, belittle or not question. I asked a few questions? I'm sorry if that does not flow with the tide. I remember Luke O'Neill saying how slow the Vaccination production process would be this time last year. There would be so many obstacles, processes and so on to get through. After an initial skirmish to get vaccines, everything seemed to flow pretty easily.

Do you think that only a tenth of the vaccines given are actually a vaccine snd the rest nothing?

I don't know! Hardly? Some con job if that was the case!

What I do find strange is that different Vaccines have different ways of working. Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines rely on mRNA technology, AstraZeneca's vaccine uses adenovirus-vectored technology as does J&J.

But all are bungled and mixed up in together when giving boosters (3rd Shots), Do these cocktails destroy the consistency from the first jabs that were given. There seems to be no order, rule or consistency? It just seems to be about getting the Jab in name only!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on December 28, 2021, 05:11:36 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 28, 2021, 04:22:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 28, 2021, 11:42:15 AM
Bunker you starting to pollute this page, you went from trying to argue a stand point no matter if people agree with it or not, to talking absolute crap. There many things about Covid 19 am not happy with, and got a number of questions about the virus and govt mishandlings but I try to look as if am not losing touch with reality, as at the end of the day am not a doctor/ scientist as I have to go on their professional advice and not on shit been posted on Facebook by persons unqualified who just happy to share their rantings for attention. Hell I know one of the main leaders of the anti vac in the North and I can't understand the crazy attitude, person lost tons of friends.

Yes, there are a lot of Nutjobs/influencers using Covid for their own agenda(s). That does not mean we ignore, belittle or not question. I asked a few questions? I'm sorry if that does not flow with the tide. I remember Luke O'Neill saying how slow the Vaccination production process would be this time last year. There would be so many obstacles, processes and so on to get through. After an initial skirmish to get vaccines, everything seemed to flow pretty easily.

Ideally the vaccine production should be much, much quicker. It took months for me to get my first jab as I had to wait until it went through all the vulnerable and the older age groups before the 40 somethings got ours. Also the WHO keep saying correctly that variants will keep popping up until everyone around the world is vaccinated. That's where the shortages in production are seen. The west and wealthy countries have hogged the vaccines. Morally it's completely wrong to be giving out boosters with huge numbers of people around the world denied access to a first dose. We probably had enough protection from serious illness to make do with 2 jabs and to export the vaccines to less wealthy countries.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 28, 2021, 05:18:09 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 28, 2021, 05:10:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 28, 2021, 04:48:46 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 28, 2021, 04:22:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 28, 2021, 11:42:15 AM
Bunker you starting to pollute this page, you went from trying to argue a stand point no matter if people agree with it or not, to talking absolute crap. There many things about Covid 19 am not happy with, and got a number of questions about the virus and govt mishandlings but I try to look as if am not losing touch with reality, as at the end of the day am not a doctor/ scientist as I have to go on their professional advice and not on shit been posted on Facebook by persons unqualified who just happy to share their rantings for attention. Hell I know one of the main leaders of the anti vac in the North and I can't understand the crazy attitude, person lost tons of friends.

Yes, there are a lot of Nutjobs/influencers using Covid for their own agenda(s). That does not mean we ignore, belittle or not question. I asked a few questions? I'm sorry if that does not flow with the tide. I remember Luke O'Neill saying how slow the Vaccination production process would be this time last year. There would be so many obstacles, processes and so on to get through. After an initial skirmish to get vaccines, everything seemed to flow pretty easily.

Do you think that only a tenth of the vaccines given are actually a vaccine snd the rest nothing?

I don't know! Hardly? Some con job if that was the case!

What I do find strange is that different Vaccines have different ways of working. Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines rely on mRNA technology, AstraZeneca's vaccine uses adenovirus-vectored technology as does J&J.

But all are bungled and mixed up in together when giving boosters (3rd Shots), Do these cocktails destroy the consistency from the first jabs that were given. There seems to be no order, rule or consistency? It just seems to be about getting the Jab in name only!

So let's get it straight, in your view, based on your basic maths, there's no way they (big pharma) could produce the vaccines they have claimed they have?

On top of that the vaccines needed to be the same because each of them are made differently and produce different results? This is based on your basic biochemistry knowledge?

Can you link me to this basic knowledge and assumptions ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 28, 2021, 05:20:11 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 28, 2021, 05:10:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 28, 2021, 04:48:46 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 28, 2021, 04:22:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 28, 2021, 11:42:15 AM
Bunker you starting to pollute this page, you went from trying to argue a stand point no matter if people agree with it or not, to talking absolute crap. There many things about Covid 19 am not happy with, and got a number of questions about the virus and govt mishandlings but I try to look as if am not losing touch with reality, as at the end of the day am not a doctor/ scientist as I have to go on their professional advice and not on shit been posted on Facebook by persons unqualified who just happy to share their rantings for attention. Hell I know one of the main leaders of the anti vac in the North and I can't understand the crazy attitude, person lost tons of friends.

Yes, there are a lot of Nutjobs/influencers using Covid for their own agenda(s). That does not mean we ignore, belittle or not question. I asked a few questions? I'm sorry if that does not flow with the tide. I remember Luke O'Neill saying how slow the Vaccination production process would be this time last year. There would be so many obstacles, processes and so on to get through. After an initial skirmish to get vaccines, everything seemed to flow pretty easily.

Do you think that only a tenth of the vaccines given are actually a vaccine snd the rest nothing?

I don't know! Hardly? Some con job if that was the case!

What I do find strange is that different Vaccines have different ways of working. Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines rely on mRNA technology, AstraZeneca's vaccine uses adenovirus-vectored technology as does J&J.

But all are bungled and mixed up in together when giving boosters (3rd Shots), Do these cocktails destroy the consistency from the first jabs that were given. There seems to be no order, rule or consistency? It just seems to be about getting the Jab in name only!

But all your posts shows is that you are ignorant of the facts. As you have been ever since the teachers were put off last year and you lost your sh!t about people on furlough.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 28, 2021, 05:53:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 28, 2021, 05:18:09 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 28, 2021, 05:10:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 28, 2021, 04:48:46 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 28, 2021, 04:22:38 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on December 28, 2021, 11:42:15 AM
Bunker you starting to pollute this page, you went from trying to argue a stand point no matter if people agree with it or not, to talking absolute crap. There many things about Covid 19 am not happy with, and got a number of questions about the virus and govt mishandlings but I try to look as if am not losing touch with reality, as at the end of the day am not a doctor/ scientist as I have to go on their professional advice and not on shit been posted on Facebook by persons unqualified who just happy to share their rantings for attention. Hell I know one of the main leaders of the anti vac in the North and I can't understand the crazy attitude, person lost tons of friends.

Yes, there are a lot of Nutjobs/influencers using Covid for their own agenda(s). That does not mean we ignore, belittle or not question. I asked a few questions? I'm sorry if that does not flow with the tide. I remember Luke O'Neill saying how slow the Vaccination production process would be this time last year. There would be so many obstacles, processes and so on to get through. After an initial skirmish to get vaccines, everything seemed to flow pretty easily.

Do you think that only a tenth of the vaccines given are actually a vaccine snd the rest nothing?

I don't know! Hardly? Some con job if that was the case!

What I do find strange is that different Vaccines have different ways of working. Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines rely on mRNA technology, AstraZeneca's vaccine uses adenovirus-vectored technology as does J&J.

But all are bungled and mixed up in together when giving boosters (3rd Shots), Do these cocktails destroy the consistency from the first jabs that were given. There seems to be no order, rule or consistency? It just seems to be about getting the Jab in name only!

So let's get it straight, in your view, based on your basic maths, there's no way they (big pharma) could produce the vaccines they have claimed they have?

On top of that the vaccines needed to be the same because each of them are made differently and produce different results? This is based on your basic biochemistry knowledge?

Can you link me to this basic knowledge and assumptions ?

Yeah, my view is based on basic Maths? Is there something wrong with that? As for the consistency of using drugs - well yeah! Different Vaccines create different reactions in the body. Fcuk me, I'd want constancy? Wouldn't you? Then again you probably would not ask any of those questions? And that's your prerogative.

Going to take a break from this thread.

Talk soon FTB
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 28, 2021, 05:57:11 PM
How Pfizer Makes Its Covid-19 Vaccine https://nyti.ms/2S4XcpX (https://nyti.ms/2S4XcpX)

An article worth a look, presumably from real journalists rather than "citizen journalists", personal trainers or wellness gurus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 28, 2021, 05:58:44 PM
That citizen journos account on Twitter is pure poison.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on December 28, 2021, 09:55:21 PM
Preprint paper - UK Myocarditis Authors Stratify by Sex for Men under 40- Vax vs Virus

https://youtu.be/NR_ZVzrTeYk (https://youtu.be/NR_ZVzrTeYk)

Main Takeaways
Mis-information myth - The virus itself doesn't cause more myocarditis than vaccines
Moderna shouldn't be on the table for this age group it would seem.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 28, 2021, 11:46:57 PM
Quote from: clarshack on December 28, 2021, 10:02:54 PM
I can tell you all from experience that Covid will fcuk you up more than any vaccine ever will.

Hope you're improving Clar. There's so much about atm.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on December 29, 2021, 02:00:50 PM
It's not that it WILL fcuk you up but it certainly MAY and I think we need to understand better what it is about your make up that has made you more susceptible. The epidemiology should be focusing on this to develop hypothesis that the scientists can prove or disprove.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 29, 2021, 02:56:46 PM
Quote from: Last Man on December 29, 2021, 02:00:50 PM
It's not that it WILL fcuk you up but it certainly MAY and I think we need to understand better what it is about your make up that has made you more susceptible. The epidemiology should be focusing on this to develop hypothesis that the scientists can prove or disprove.

What makes people susceptible to flu? Plenty of opportunity to research that over the years but there is not good answer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 29, 2021, 07:45:54 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHyqxBxXoAAVIhw?format=png&name=small)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 29, 2021, 08:03:25 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 29, 2021, 07:45:54 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHyqxBxXoAAVIhw?format=png&name=small)
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/52607017/guess-whos-back-back-again.jpg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 29, 2021, 08:36:45 PM
Guess who's back.........tell a friend!  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 29, 2021, 08:39:30 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 29, 2021, 07:45:54 PM
<SNIP>

I presume you mean to tell us something we don't know in this post?

Its one of the main reasons that backers of lateral flow insist they work - as they produce positives for a much shorter period of time comparing them to PCR is apples vs. oranges. [As mentioned before, I'm still dubious - and the quality of research into quantifying the capabilities of lateral flow stuff simply isn't good enough]

A PCR test will still pick up dead viral strands for weeks after recovery.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 29, 2021, 08:40:41 PM
Go to 35:00 to see why we really are giving Vaccines to Children? It will only take a few minutes of your time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkKOt4SYYiY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkKOt4SYYiY)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on December 29, 2021, 08:45:39 PM
Get a fukking grip man.

Some lawyer waffling on bullshit about liabilities and already having enough evidence to destroy pfizer/moderna?


If you cannot apply even the most basic of filtering of bullshit, please fuk off and start a tinfoil hat covid thread and leave this one for useful discussion and information.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 29, 2021, 08:50:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 29, 2021, 08:45:39 PM
Get a fukking grip man.

Some lawyer waffling on bullshit about liabilities and already having enough evidence to destroy pfizer/moderna?


If you cannot apply even the most basic of filtering of bullshit, please fuk off and start a tinfoil hat covid thread and leave this one for useful discussion and information.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr is the person talking.

I started another thread a few weeks back but it was Censored/deleted by the Mods!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on December 29, 2021, 08:53:54 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 29, 2021, 08:50:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 29, 2021, 08:45:39 PM
Get a fukking grip man.

Some lawyer waffling on bullshit about liabilities and already having enough evidence to destroy pfizer/moderna?


If you cannot apply even the most basic of filtering of bullshit, please fuk off and start a tinfoil hat covid thread and leave this one for useful discussion and information.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr is the person talking.

I started another thread but it was Censored/deleted by the Mods!

Anti vaccine chap who is making loads of money out of his online ranting and raving.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 29, 2021, 08:54:55 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 29, 2021, 08:50:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 29, 2021, 08:45:39 PM
Get a fukking grip man.

Some lawyer waffling on bullshit about liabilities and already having enough evidence to destroy pfizer/moderna?


If you cannot apply even the most basic of filtering of bullshit, please fuk off and start a tinfoil hat covid thread and leave this one for useful discussion and information.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr is the person talking.

I started another thread a few weeks back but it was Censored/deleted by the Mods!

Yeah because that makes it creditable...... he's a bigger moron than yourself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 29, 2021, 08:58:14 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 29, 2021, 08:54:55 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 29, 2021, 08:50:01 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 29, 2021, 08:45:39 PM
Get a fukking grip man.

Some lawyer waffling on bullshit about liabilities and already having enough evidence to destroy pfizer/moderna?


If you cannot apply even the most basic of filtering of bullshit, please fuk off and start a tinfoil hat covid thread and leave this one for useful discussion and information.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr is the person talking.

I started another thread a few weeks back but it was Censored/deleted by the Mods!

Yeah because that makes it creditable...... he's a bigger moron than yourself.

Yes, Luckily the Vaccine companies are doing all on their side for free.

And I see we are back to the name calling! Is that what we have to resort to?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 29, 2021, 09:06:21 PM
This is the new world we live in, Question the Narrative and you will get ridiculed, belittled, named called, Pigeon holed into some Right wing group, and so on!

It's the easiest thing to do!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 29, 2021, 09:13:05 PM
Most , if not all, of what you have written is horseshit. That's why it's being questioned. The irony is that you have drawn a conclusion, or to use the buzzword term you use to fit in with some of the crap you read -the narrative, and are finding and posting any old crap you can to try and back it up then you accuse people who argue with you of just putting you down for questioning "the narrative".

You couldn't make it up.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 29, 2021, 09:21:36 PM
What's with the psyche of the small minority of crack pots that they need to endlessly push their nonsense? That they just need to be heard all the time?

Bunker, I take it you've fallen out with most of your family and friends at this stage (most have) and need to be back on here as a way of socialising? Don't burn all your bridges, no use in the long run



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2021, 11:02:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 29, 2021, 09:06:21 PM
This is the new world we live in, Question the Narrative and you will get ridiculed, belittled, named called, Pigeon holed into some Right wing group, and so on!

It's the easiest thing to do!

So if someone questions your narrative, what do we call them?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 29, 2021, 11:13:05 PM
If only, though he may have died at some point

A Dutch vaccine sceptic and anti-lockdown campaigner has died after being hospitalised with Covid-19.

Robin Fransman, 53, was an economist who became one of the most prominent anti-lockdown campaigners in the Netherlands after co-founding a group that argued for the lifting of restrictions earlier in the Covid-19 pandemic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 29, 2021, 11:38:53 PM
Well the vaccines had to have worked to an extent, the death rates are massively down from the original outbreak, even non vaccs has to see that evident in front of them. The % getting the virus is higher now than even but the matching death rate as before is not there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 30, 2021, 06:16:14 AM
https://twitter.com/nazirafzal/status/1476251267815153673?s=20 (https://twitter.com/nazirafzal/status/1476251267815153673?s=20)

Infuriating.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: WT4E on December 30, 2021, 08:07:05 AM
Sorry just a quick question.

If two households have tested positive and are beside each other in the countryside (no need for transport). Are they able to mix without any risk? Both households don't have any major illness.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 30, 2021, 09:19:31 AM

Quote from: WT4E on December 30, 2021, 08:07:05 AM
Sorry just a quick question.

If two households have tested positive and are beside each other in the countryside (no need for transport). Are they able to mix without any risk? Both households don't have any major illness.

Officially no. Has everyone in both houses tested positive? Because if not you would be exposing them to more virus than if they stayed with their own house.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: WT4E on December 30, 2021, 09:39:13 AM
Two houses have two adults all positive. 4 kids u5 not tested but suspected having it as all have cold symptoms.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 30, 2021, 10:00:09 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 29, 2021, 09:21:36 PM
What's with the psyche of the small minority of crack pots that they need to endlessly push their nonsense? That they just need to be heard all the time?

Bunker, I take it you've fallen out with most of your family and friends at this stage (most have) and need to be back on here as a way of socialising? Don't burn all your bridges, no use in the long run
The brother in law was on about this the other day. Online these people are flat out about not being sheep, having their freedom etc. but the rest of the world is getting on with their life, albeit with some restrictions, whereas these people have nothing in their head other than posting online about how free they are. Rent free.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on December 30, 2021, 10:32:18 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 29, 2021, 08:50:01 PM

Robert F. Kennedy Jr is the person talking.

Where's Sirhan Sirhan when you need him?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 30, 2021, 03:59:44 PM
Only 4701 cases in the north today  :o

Even with case numbers hospital admissions aren't looking too bad and you are starting to get towards ~2 weeks of lag. Would expect it to jump a bit but hopefully not too much in weeks to come with cases looking like they are doubling per day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 30, 2021, 04:21:17 PM
The doctor has spoken  ;D

It still needs to play out what it is but is heading that way hopefully.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 30, 2021, 04:31:34 PM
The biggest issue atm seems to be maintaining staff levels throughout all sections of the economy.  I think that is what is behind the reduction in isolation times.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 30, 2021, 04:35:40 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 30, 2021, 04:10:43 PM
Tommy omicron is a bad cold. Do not panic Tommy.

More evidence of MSM trying to control the narrative. No one's off-limits, even Dr Robert Malone, the inventor of mRNA technology. He is not a crack pot, but hugely knowledgeable and has a different view.

only false narrative is coming from you... MSM from the beginning have been reporting that all available evidence is that Omicron is milder than Delta, however that does not exactly translate into our health service being able to cope with potential increased levels of hospitalisation with likely reduced levels of staffing...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on December 30, 2021, 05:04:14 PM
I'm trying to run a business here and while I'm glad they've moved to 7 days, there is absolutely no communication apart from individuals on Twitter, no statement on gov website, webpages on isolation have not been updated and officials are on holiday and haven't even an out of office contact.  Bunch of amateurs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 30, 2021, 05:08:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 30, 2021, 03:59:44 PM
Only 4701 cases in the north today  :o

Even with case numbers hospital admissions aren't looking too bad and you are starting to get towards ~2 weeks of lag. Would expect it to jump a bit but hopefully not too much in weeks to come with cases looking like they are doubling per day.

4701 that got tested!
10 days ago the NI number were more like one third of that number and it is those people that are in hospital now.
20% of people may still be Delta.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2021, 05:09:54 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on December 30, 2021, 05:04:14 PM
I'm trying to run a business here and while I'm glad they've moved to 7 days, there is absolutely no communication apart from individuals on Twitter, no statement on gov website, webpages on isolation have not been updated and officials are on holiday and haven't even an out of office contact.  Bunch of amateurs.

But the welfare of your staff would be the first priority?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on December 30, 2021, 05:14:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2021, 05:09:54 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on December 30, 2021, 05:04:14 PM
I'm trying to run a business here and while I'm glad they've moved to 7 days, there is absolutely no communication apart from individuals on Twitter, no statement on gov website, webpages on isolation have not been updated and officials are on holiday and haven't even an out of office contact.  Bunch of amateurs.

But the welfare of your staff would be the first priority?
Exactly, so need clear information. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 30, 2021, 05:18:00 PM
Over 16,000 here yesterday and expected to be up to or over 20k today  :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on December 30, 2021, 05:44:32 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 30, 2021, 05:37:35 PM
omicron provides the kind of protection against delta the vax couldn't and it is no more than a bad cold.  The vast majority would be grand and could continue to work but government playing safe understandably.
Two in our household have had covid in the past week. One had mild sore head and a runny nose for two days, isolated for ten. Totally mental. The other a bit heavier with the headache and one day of a temp. Could go to work the very best. Mental in my view.
How do you know?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 30, 2021, 05:54:23 PM
I prefer to ask a family member who is an immunologist than random strangers ( quick Google has him as a convicted felon too) on twitter....

it's doesn't take vast knowledge to read what's in the MSM and understand what you said about MSM is not true... it doesn't take medical knowledge to dispel your false narratives
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on December 30, 2021, 06:07:00 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 30, 2021, 05:37:35 PM
omicron provides the kind of protection against delta the vax couldn't and it is no more than a bad cold.  The vast majority would be grand and could continue to work but government playing safe understandably.
Two in our household have had covid in the past week. One had mild sore head and a runny nose for two days, isolated for ten. Totally mental. The other a bit heavier with the headache and one day of a temp. Could go to work the very best. Mental in my view.

yeah says an expert in virology posting on the gah board

ffs  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 30, 2021, 06:22:44 PM
He's joined a few sessions from experts don't you know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 30, 2021, 07:55:36 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 30, 2021, 06:37:18 PM
Outstanding video. The best documentation yet of nearly every top official in the States in charge of the response to COVID insisting the vaccine prevents infection and transmission—not just symptoms.

https://twitter.com/michaelpsenger/status/1476249496736522246?s=21 (https://twitter.com/michaelpsenger/status/1476249496736522246?s=21)

Some dopes 😂😂

U wonder about those expert immunologist and virologists 😂😂 Has their credibility been questioned

Since when is Rachel Maddow a "top official" in the US?

Were those statements accurate at the time they were made, before the Delta and Omicron variants? If so, have those people continued to make those claims as the circumstances and evidence has changed?

Are you advocating that people DON'T take the vaccine?

Are you advocating that the vaccines are NOT effective?

Are you saying that the responsible road to take is to NOT get vaccinated as it makes no difference, whether to one's own health or the risk of transmitting it to others?

CDC data, prior to the Omicron surge, shows that unvaccinated people in the US had a ten-fold greater risk of becoming infected in the month of October, 20X chance of dying from Covid.

Were they lying?

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status (https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: currychip on December 30, 2021, 08:03:46 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on December 30, 2021, 05:04:14 PM
I'm trying to run a business here and while I'm glad they've moved to 7 days, there is absolutely no communication apart from individuals on Twitter, no statement on gov website, webpages on isolation have not been updated and officials are on holiday and haven't even an out of office contact.  Bunch of amateurs.

It's headlines in the BBC NI website as a government statement, with a tweet by the First Minister, hardly "an individual on Twitter".  What do you need to know?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on December 30, 2021, 08:06:39 PM
Seemed a common criticism from social media. Their press release seemed delayed for whatever reason but is out now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 30, 2021, 09:07:00 PM
I think the message from Stormont has been very disjointed and slow over Christmas period, almost no figures or strategy for few days there,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2021, 09:12:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 30, 2021, 09:07:00 PM
I think the message from Stormont has been very disjointed and slow over Christmas period, almost no figures or strategy for few days there,

What is it you're looking for?

No change in restrictions from their last meeting.

I'd say if they were going to change the restrictions they'll let us know, no?

Isn't there to be a meeting tomorrow?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on December 30, 2021, 09:41:17 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 30, 2021, 09:30:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 30, 2021, 07:55:36 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 30, 2021, 06:37:18 PM
Outstanding video. The best documentation yet of nearly every top official in the States in charge of the response to COVID insisting the vaccine prevents infection and transmission—not just symptoms.

https://twitter.com/michaelpsenger/status/1476249496736522246?s=21 (https://twitter.com/michaelpsenger/status/1476249496736522246?s=21)

Some dopes 😂😂

U wonder about those expert immunologist and virologists 😂😂 Has their credibility been questioned

Since when is Rachel Maddow a "top official" in the US?

Were those statements accurate at the time they were made, before the Delta and Omicron variants? If so, have those people continued to make those claims as the circumstances and evidence has changed?

Are you advocating that people DON'T take the vaccine?

Are you advocating that the vaccines are NOT effective?

Are you saying that the responsible road to take is to NOT get vaccinated as it makes no difference, whether to one's own health or the risk of transmitting it to others?

CDC data, prior to the Omicron surge, shows that unvaccinated people in the US had a ten-fold greater risk of becoming infected in the month of October, 20X chance of dying from Covid.

Were they lying?

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status (https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status)



What I'm saying is, we were told what the vaccine were going to do. Who advised those senior officials? Experts? Who subsequently have been proven to be wrong. As more data became available it was clear we all were fed wrong information. Deliberately.... No, but nonetheless the video demonstrates clear misinformation.
Yet when other experts present ( and i am referring to credible experts) who present a different view or question some of the strategy there has been a very deliberate attempt to discredit them.

And yet we are quite happy to wholesomely accept the view of these experts who have a track  record as the video demonstrates of sometimes being inaccurate.
332 deaths recorded tonight in the UK.  I think you should retract your 'bad cold' comment before you go any further.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on December 30, 2021, 09:52:31 PM
Is this 6 days worth of death going by what im reading?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2021, 10:33:35 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 30, 2021, 09:53:49 PM
The elderly, the obese and those with underlying health conditions have and will remain at risk. That I never disputed . As for the rest of the population omicron is a bad cold. Delta worst.. The strategy is my issue

Should just lock them up and put a lock on the fridge
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on December 30, 2021, 10:43:07 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on December 30, 2021, 09:52:31 PM
Is this 6 days worth of death going by what im reading?

Yes covering the period 24th⁠–⁠29th December.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 30, 2021, 10:53:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2021, 09:12:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 30, 2021, 09:07:00 PM
I think the message from Stormont has been very disjointed and slow over Christmas period, almost no figures or strategy for few days there,

What is it you're looking for?

No change in restrictions from their last meeting.

I'd say if they were going to change the restrictions they'll let us know, no?

Isn't there to be a meeting tomorrow?

There were no figures issued, no pcrs available, very few lateral flows and test centres closed, very odd I thought , canny get in way of the Xmas dinner. They seem to have reacted today the 30th based on info that's been there a while- reduced isolation etc
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 30, 2021, 10:54:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2021, 10:33:35 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 30, 2021, 09:53:49 PM
The elderly, the obese and those with underlying health conditions have and will remain at risk. That I never disputed . As for the rest of the population omicron is a bad cold. Delta worst.. The strategy is my issue

Should just lock them up and put a lock on the fridge

To be fair that's not far off what they are suggesting
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2021, 10:59:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 30, 2021, 10:54:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2021, 10:33:35 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 30, 2021, 09:53:49 PM
The elderly, the obese and those with underlying health conditions have and will remain at risk. That I never disputed . As for the rest of the population omicron is a bad cold. Delta worst.. The strategy is my issue

Should just lock them up and put a lock on the fridge

To be fair that's not far off what they are suggesting

Who?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on December 30, 2021, 11:02:25 PM
Quote from: currychip on December 30, 2021, 08:03:46 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on December 30, 2021, 05:04:14 PM
I'm trying to run a business here and while I'm glad they've moved to 7 days, there is absolutely no communication apart from individuals on Twitter, no statement on gov website, webpages on isolation have not been updated and officials are on holiday and haven't even an out of office contact.  Bunch of amateurs.

It's headlines in the BBC NI website as a government statement, with a tweet by the First Minister, hardly "an individual on Twitter".  What do you need to know?
I've learned from experience that the devil is almost always in the detail.  If I relied on BBC headlines all the way through this I'd have come unstuck several times. And some of their journalists are very good but businesses need the detail behind the media story.  I don't heed the politicians, they all have an agenda and it's just a big mess between them all.  Michelle O'Neill tweeted this evening and didn't even mention the isolation change, and now the Executive have belatedly issued a statement and are pinning it on Robin Swann and say they "expect" it to be introduced.  They are masters in uncertainty, probably arguing away behind the scenes on this one.  We're just left to guess and supposed to be ready in the morning for whatever questions staff might have. Meanwhile the Gov website still says isolate for 10 days!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 30, 2021, 11:02:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2021, 10:59:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on December 30, 2021, 10:54:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2021, 10:33:35 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 30, 2021, 09:53:49 PM
The elderly, the obese and those with underlying health conditions have and will remain at risk. That I never disputed . As for the rest of the population omicron is a bad cold. Delta worst.. The strategy is my issue

Should just lock them up and put a lock on the fridge

To be fair that's not far off what they are suggesting

Who?

The govt- telling the oul wans to stay in the gaff as much as possible
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 30, 2021, 11:09:21 PM
But sure it's been very disjointed, apparently not though as you've said the government just want to lock them up  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on December 31, 2021, 08:59:19 AM
This HIDDEN risk factor for severe COVID 19, I keep seeing in hospital patients

Spoiler alert - Elevated blood sugar (HBA1C measurement) a major risk indicator for those being hospitalised with severe covid infection

https://youtu.be/igMiDqB0wZ4 (https://youtu.be/igMiDqB0wZ4)

The great news is that this is reversible

Worth 7 minutes of anybodies time

You'd wonder why Public Health isn't making use of this opportunity to get more people in gear in regard to their own metabolic health.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 31, 2021, 10:00:16 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 31, 2021, 08:59:19 AM
This HIDDEN risk factor for severe COVID 19, I keep seeing in hospital patients

Spoiler alert - Elevated blood sugar (HBA1C measurement) a major risk indicator for those being hospitalised with severe covid infection

https://youtu.be/igMiDqB0wZ4 (https://youtu.be/igMiDqB0wZ4)

The great news is that this is reversible

Worth 7 minutes of anybodies time

You'd wonder why Public Health isn't making use of this opportunity to get more people in gear in regard to their own metabolic health.

I thought you weren't going to post on this topic anymore... its hardly hidden a quick Google shows loads of info on it..

I think people know what it takes to be healthy and they benefits at this stage... they choose not to be.. I am also sure if they did come out with some messaging now there would be a few YouTube videos trying to undermine it and suggest alternative motives...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 10:20:06 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 31, 2021, 10:00:16 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 31, 2021, 08:59:19 AM
This HIDDEN risk factor for severe COVID 19, I keep seeing in hospital patients

Spoiler alert - Elevated blood sugar (HBA1C measurement) a major risk indicator for those being hospitalised with severe covid infection

https://youtu.be/igMiDqB0wZ4 (https://youtu.be/igMiDqB0wZ4)

The great news is that this is reversible

Worth 7 minutes of anybodies time

You'd wonder why Public Health isn't making use of this opportunity to get more people in gear in regard to their own metabolic health.

I thought you weren't going to post on this topic anymore... its hardly hidden a quick Google shows loads of info on it..

I think people know what it takes to be healthy and they benefits at this stage... they choose not to be.. I am also sure if they did come out with some messaging now there would be a few YouTube videos trying to undermine it and suggest alternative motives...

Padraic, you seem to jump all over anyone who puts anything up on this thread. Its almost defensive the way you react. Are you Tony Holohan or one of his minions?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 31, 2021, 10:27:11 AM
Quote from: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 10:20:06 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 31, 2021, 10:00:16 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 31, 2021, 08:59:19 AM
This HIDDEN risk factor for severe COVID 19, I keep seeing in hospital patients

Spoiler alert - Elevated blood sugar (HBA1C measurement) a major risk indicator for those being hospitalised with severe covid infection

https://youtu.be/igMiDqB0wZ4 (https://youtu.be/igMiDqB0wZ4)

The great news is that this is reversible

Worth 7 minutes of anybodies time

You'd wonder why Public Health isn't making use of this opportunity to get more people in gear in regard to their own metabolic health.

I thought you weren't going to post on this topic anymore... its hardly hidden a quick Google shows loads of info on it..

I think people know what it takes to be healthy and they benefits at this stage... they choose not to be.. I am also sure if they did come out with some messaging now there would be a few YouTube videos trying to undermine it and suggest alternative motives...

Padraic, you seem to jump all over anyone who puts anything up on this thread. Its almost defensive the way you react. Are you Tony Holohan or one of his minions?

hi Itchy, I don't work In health care.  It's not defensive... mostly it to correct false Info. like MSM don't report on this or that... its easy to correct these with a quick Google... (I don't work In media either)

I do follow public health advise and so far have avoided covid maybe that makes me a minion..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on December 31, 2021, 10:57:33 AM
Ahh PadraicH you're far too sensible for this oul subject.
Imagine checking facts and refuting untruths...
And then following public health advice and not getting Covid.
I've done the same by the way as have the rest of the household.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 31, 2021, 12:15:50 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 10:20:06 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 31, 2021, 10:00:16 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 31, 2021, 08:59:19 AM
This HIDDEN risk factor for severe COVID 19, I keep seeing in hospital patients

Spoiler alert - Elevated blood sugar (HBA1C measurement) a major risk indicator for those being hospitalised with severe covid infection

https://youtu.be/igMiDqB0wZ4 (https://youtu.be/igMiDqB0wZ4)

The great news is that this is reversible

Worth 7 minutes of anybodies time

You'd wonder why Public Health isn't making use of this opportunity to get more people in gear in regard to their own metabolic health.

I thought you weren't going to post on this topic anymore... its hardly hidden a quick Google shows loads of info on it..

I think people know what it takes to be healthy and they benefits at this stage... they choose not to be.. I am also sure if they did come out with some messaging now there would be a few YouTube videos trying to undermine it and suggest alternative motives...

Padraic, you seem to jump all over anyone who puts anything up on this thread. Its almost defensive the way you react. Are you Tony Holohan or one of his

minions?

The amount of absolute hogwash on this thread by a few lunatics and you jump on someone calling it out for what it is....mad Ted
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 12:58:28 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 31, 2021, 12:15:50 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 10:20:06 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 31, 2021, 10:00:16 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on December 31, 2021, 08:59:19 AM
This HIDDEN risk factor for severe COVID 19, I keep seeing in hospital patients

Spoiler alert - Elevated blood sugar (HBA1C measurement) a major risk indicator for those being hospitalised with severe covid infection

https://youtu.be/igMiDqB0wZ4 (https://youtu.be/igMiDqB0wZ4)

The great news is that this is reversible

Worth 7 minutes of anybodies time

You'd wonder why Public Health isn't making use of this opportunity to get more people in gear in regard to their own metabolic health.

I thought you weren't going to post on this topic anymore... its hardly hidden a quick Google shows loads of info on it..

I think people know what it takes to be healthy and they benefits at this stage... they choose not to be.. I am also sure if they did come out with some messaging now there would be a few YouTube videos trying to undermine it and suggest alternative motives...

Padraic, you seem to jump all over anyone who puts anything up on this thread. Its almost defensive the way you react. Are you Tony Holohan or one of his

minions?

The amount of absolute hogwash on this thread by a few lunatics and you jump on someone calling it out for what it is....mad Ted

So padraig can jump on a man who puts up a video with useful information?

This thread has become poison. It's full of flat earthers on one side talking shite about unsafe vaccines and on the other side Tony Holohan zealots who allow no questions. And like I said before, I too observe the public safety advice and am triple vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 31, 2021, 01:09:15 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 30, 2021, 09:30:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 30, 2021, 07:55:36 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 30, 2021, 06:37:18 PM
Outstanding video. The best documentation yet of nearly every top official in the States in charge of the response to COVID insisting the vaccine prevents infection and transmission—not just symptoms.

https://twitter.com/michaelpsenger/status/1476249496736522246?s=21 (https://twitter.com/michaelpsenger/status/1476249496736522246?s=21)

Some dopes 😂😂

U wonder about those expert immunologist and virologists 😂😂 Has their credibility been questioned

Since when is Rachel Maddow a "top official" in the US?

Were those statements accurate at the time they were made, before the Delta and Omicron variants? If so, have those people continued to make those claims as the circumstances and evidence has changed?

Are you advocating that people DON'T take the vaccine?

Are you advocating that the vaccines are NOT effective?

Are you saying that the responsible road to take is to NOT get vaccinated as it makes no difference, whether to one's own health or the risk of transmitting it to others?

CDC data, prior to the Omicron surge, shows that unvaccinated people in the US had a ten-fold greater risk of becoming infected in the month of October, 20X chance of dying from Covid.

Were they lying?

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status (https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status)



What I'm saying is, we were told what the vaccine were going to do. Who advised those senior officials? Experts? Who subsequently have been proven to be wrong. As more data became available it was clear we all were fed wrong information. Deliberately.... No, but nonetheless the video demonstrates clear misinformation.
Yet when other experts present ( and i am referring to credible experts) who present a different view or question some of the strategy there has been a very deliberate attempt to discredit them.

And yet we are quite happy to wholesomely accept the view of these experts who have a track  record as the video demonstrates of sometimes being inaccurate.

Viruses change. Hence the efficacy of vaccines change.

They're simple questions: was the information inaccurate at the time the statements were made? Do those statements mean that the vaccines should not be taken or that they're not important in fighting this disease?

Are you holding your own "experts" to the same standard? Have you gone back and parsed every statement THEY'VE made?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 31, 2021, 01:16:21 PM
firstly I didn't jump on anything, I replied to a post that happens on here day in day out...

Secondly, I said the information wasn't hidden... I made no comments on the video although I am sceptical of YouTube videos like the one posted and what the motives of the YouTuber are. I also made comment on public messaging about being healthy... given previous posts from that posters i think there may be a subtext.

Finally,  there is no issue with questions and only moderators have the ability to censor.. some of the questions are questions I asked myself but with a quick Google I found the answers, I didn't just think because I didn't understand something it must be suspious.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 31, 2021, 03:23:18 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 31, 2021, 02:39:11 PM
Here is some advise. Skull had previously shared this, but to elaborate. One of the first things covid patients get along with other meds is Vit D. They infact get alot of it depending on bloods test, but typically up to 20,000 mgs.  Almost 90% of patients admitted with covid are tested low in vit D. And one of the characteristics of obesity is low vit D.
I had been on approximately 500mgs per day but advised by my G.P. friend and colleague to up it to 4000 mgs per day in winter, early spring.

Would it not be easier to get fit and lose weight, eat well and stop snacking?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 31, 2021, 03:33:41 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 31, 2021, 02:39:11 PM
Here is some advise. Skull had previously shared this, but to elaborate. One of the first things covid patients get along with other meds is Vit D. They infact get alot of it depending on bloods test, but typically up to 20,000 mgs.  Almost 90% of patients admitted with covid are tested low in vit D. And one of the characteristics of obesity is low vit D.
I had been on approximately 500mgs per day but advised by my G.P. friend and colleague to up it to 4000 mgs per day in winter, early spring.

can you provide evidence of the above? that vitamin d is given to covid patients as one of the first things and typically up to 20000mgs (I think you are using the wrong term here).

also the HSE and NICE have a page on vitamin d so people should check that out as a first point of call, followed by Dr. visit if they decided to take Vit D. In Ireland during winter its likely people could use it.

as far as I am aware there is no clinical trials which show vit d as a treatment for covid only observational studies have been carried out to date.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 03:35:27 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 31, 2021, 02:39:11 PM
Here is some advise. Skull had previously shared this, but to elaborate. One of the first things covid patients get along with other meds is Vit D. They infact get alot of it depending on bloods test, but typically up to 20,000 mgs.  Almost 90% of patients admitted with covid are tested low in vit D. And one of the characteristics of obesity is low vit D.
I had been on approximately 500mgs per day but advised by my G.P. friend and colleague to up it to 4000 mgs per day in winter, early spring.

That's been known since the very early days, I always found it odd that people were not advised to take vit d supplements as a preventative measure. Supplements are readily available over the counter. Yet it never made it into any hse or public safety documentation. Maybe there's a reason for its omission, but I don't know what it is.

https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/further-evidence-that-vitamin-d-might-protect-against-severe-covid-19-disease-and-death/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: north_antrim_hound on December 31, 2021, 05:36:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 03:35:27 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 31, 2021, 02:39:11 PM
Here is some advise. Skull had previously shared this, but to elaborate. One of the first things covid patients get along with other meds is Vit D. They infact get alot of it depending on bloods test, but typically up to 20,000 mgs.  Almost 90% of patients admitted with covid are tested low in vit D. And one of the characteristics of obesity is low vit D.
I had been on approximately 500mgs per day but advised by my G.P. friend and colleague to up it to 4000 mgs per day in winter, early spring.

That's been known since the very early days, I always found it odd that people were not advised to take vit d supplements as a preventative measure. Supplements are readily available over the counter. Yet it never made it into any hse or public safety documentation. Maybe there's a reason for its omission, but I don't know what it is.

https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/further-evidence-that-vitamin-d-might-protect-against-severe-covid-19-disease-and-death/

People are not advised to take vit D because there is no patent on it. That's no good for the Pfizer's of this world.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 31, 2021, 05:38:19 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on December 31, 2021, 05:36:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 03:35:27 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 31, 2021, 02:39:11 PM
Here is some advise. Skull had previously shared this, but to elaborate. One of the first things covid patients get along with other meds is Vit D. They infact get alot of it depending on bloods test, but typically up to 20,000 mgs.  Almost 90% of patients admitted with covid are tested low in vit D. And one of the characteristics of obesity is low vit D.
I had been on approximately 500mgs per day but advised by my G.P. friend and colleague to up it to 4000 mgs per day in winter, early spring.

That's been known since the very early days, I always found it odd that people were not advised to take vit d supplements as a preventative measure. Supplements are readily available over the counter. Yet it never made it into any hse or public safety documentation. Maybe there's a reason for its omission, but I don't know what it is.

https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/further-evidence-that-vitamin-d-might-protect-against-severe-covid-19-disease-and-death/

People are not advised to take vit D because there is no patent on it. That's no good for the Pfizer's of this world.

Except vit d is advised... it is just not specifically advised for covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 31, 2021, 05:47:48 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on December 31, 2021, 05:36:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 03:35:27 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 31, 2021, 02:39:11 PM
Here is some advise. Skull had previously shared this, but to elaborate. One of the first things covid patients get along with other meds is Vit D. They infact get alot of it depending on bloods test, but typically up to 20,000 mgs.  Almost 90% of patients admitted with covid are tested low in vit D. And one of the characteristics of obesity is low vit D.
I had been on approximately 500mgs per day but advised by my G.P. friend and colleague to up it to 4000 mgs per day in winter, early spring.

That's been known since the very early days, I always found it odd that people were not advised to take vit d supplements as a preventative measure. Supplements are readily available over the counter. Yet it never made it into any hse or public safety documentation. Maybe there's a reason for its omission, but I don't know what it is.

https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/further-evidence-that-vitamin-d-might-protect-against-severe-covid-19-disease-and-death/

People are not advised to take vit D because there is no patent on it. That's no good for the Pfizer's of this world.

The same Pjizer who have saved and prolonged countless millions of lives inc members of your own family immediate / extended  no doubt...why does there have to be a bogeyman?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 31, 2021, 06:21:43 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FH35cZwXMAgBTol?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 31, 2021, 06:25:58 PM
are you showing that to show us all what mis information is?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 31, 2021, 06:36:58 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 31, 2021, 06:21:43 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FH35cZwXMAgBTol?format=jpg&name=small)

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/9053100002 (https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/9053100002)

For the love of God do a fact check before falling for rubbish like that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 31, 2021, 06:40:29 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 31, 2021, 06:21:43 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FH35cZwXMAgBTol?format=jpg&name=small)

Time to grow up Bunker and start taking a bit of responsibility for the absolute nonsense you post. We're in the middle of a pandemic and the kind of crap* you and your ilk post is costing lives as people will be gullible enough to believe it!

* complete and utter
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 31, 2021, 06:50:35 PM
A moron as I said.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 31, 2021, 07:00:18 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FH7iYHkWYAEZOHe?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 31, 2021, 07:05:00 PM
While what doesn't kill makes you strong, the problem is that a lot of people die in the process.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 31, 2021, 07:14:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 31, 2021, 07:05:00 PM
While what doesn't kill makes you strong, the problem is that a lot of people die in the process.

Time will tell, but the panic created coming into the arrival of Omnicron telling/frightening people into getting a Booster (that was next to useless against the variant) told it's old story!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 31, 2021, 07:17:31 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 31, 2021, 07:14:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 31, 2021, 07:05:00 PM
While what doesn't kill makes you strong, the problem is that a lot of people die in the process.

Time will tell, but the panic created coming into the arrival of Omnicron telling/frightening people into getting a Booster (that was next to useless against the variant) told it's old story!

more mis information but at this stage I'm almost sure you are just a WUM...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 31, 2021, 07:20:22 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 31, 2021, 07:17:31 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 31, 2021, 07:14:40 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 31, 2021, 07:05:00 PM
While what doesn't kill makes you strong, the problem is that a lot of people die in the process.

Time will tell, but the panic created coming into the arrival of Omnicron telling/frightening people into getting a Booster (that was next to useless against the variant) told it's old story!

more mis information but at this stage I'm almost sure you are just a WUM...

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/sinovac-covid-19-shot-with-pfizer-booster-less-effective-against-omicron-study-2021-12-31/ (https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/sinovac-covid-19-shot-with-pfizer-booster-less-effective-against-omicron-study-2021-12-31/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on December 31, 2021, 07:28:11 PM
In fairness if i was a Pharmaceutical company and i had a Sh1tload of Covid-19 shots produced and suddenly there is talk of a variant that looks like it will do a better job at creating herd immunity than the Vaccine. I'd be doing and saying what ever i could to create panic/fear/uncertainty to get rid of them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 31, 2021, 07:30:18 PM
there was no frightening people, there was caution but almost immediately it was suggested that Omicron appeared to be milder..  mis information

I hate posting links but since you are incapable it appears of doing your own research... here you go (also check out the two articles in the read next section in your link and re read your link again while you are at it)

https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/81-reduction-in-risk-of-hospital-admission-with-omicron-after-booster-jab-1236116.html

sinovac is not used In Ireland...I won't be responding to your posts again...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 31, 2021, 08:07:48 PM
QuoteGoing to take a break from this thread.


That lasted a long time - biggest f**king drama queen on the message board.

Get some help - https://www.samaritans.org/branches/

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 08:15:38 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 31, 2021, 05:38:19 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on December 31, 2021, 05:36:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 03:35:27 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 31, 2021, 02:39:11 PM
Here is some advise. Skull had previously shared this, but to elaborate. One of the first things covid patients get along with other meds is Vit D. They infact get alot of it depending on bloods test, but typically up to 20,000 mgs.  Almost 90% of patients admitted with covid are tested low in vit D. And one of the characteristics of obesity is low vit D.
I had been on approximately 500mgs per day but advised by my G.P. friend and colleague to up it to 4000 mgs per day in winter, early spring.

That's been known since the very early days, I always found it odd that people were not advised to take vit d supplements as a preventative measure. Supplements are readily available over the counter. Yet it never made it into any hse or public safety documentation. Maybe there's a reason for its omission, but I don't know what it is.

https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/further-evidence-that-vitamin-d-might-protect-against-severe-covid-19-disease-and-death/

People are not advised to take vit D because there is no patent on it. That's no good for the Pfizer's of this world.

Except vit d is advised... it is just not specifically advised for covid.

Why wasn't it advised as a de-risk strategy for covid. It certainly wouldn't do any harm and initial research shows positive effects?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 31, 2021, 08:28:49 PM
because it is not a proven treatment for covid. It is however advised to take it if you are deficient in Vitamin D. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 31, 2021, 08:46:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 08:15:38 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 31, 2021, 05:38:19 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on December 31, 2021, 05:36:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 03:35:27 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 31, 2021, 02:39:11 PM
Here is some advise. Skull had previously shared this, but to elaborate. One of the first things covid patients get along with other meds is Vit D. They infact get alot of it depending on bloods test, but typically up to 20,000 mgs.  Almost 90% of patients admitted with covid are tested low in vit D. And one of the characteristics of obesity is low vit D.
I had been on approximately 500mgs per day but advised by my G.P. friend and colleague to up it to 4000 mgs per day in winter, early spring.

That's been known since the very early days, I always found it odd that people were not advised to take vit d supplements as a preventative measure. Supplements are readily available over the counter. Yet it never made it into any hse or public safety documentation. Maybe there's a reason for its omission, but I don't know what it is.

https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/further-evidence-that-vitamin-d-might-protect-against-severe-covid-19-disease-and-death/

People are not advised to take vit D because there is no patent on it. That's no good for the Pfizer's of this world.

Except vit d is advised... it is just not specifically advised for covid.

Why wasn't it advised as a de-risk strategy for covid. It certainly wouldn't do any harm and initial research shows positive effects?

https://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12937-021-00744-y (https://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12937-021-00744-y)

Because that's why.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on December 31, 2021, 08:48:25 PM
Last June I decided that I needed the then prospective digital passport. I tried in vain to test covid positive but to no avail. dejected I went for  the pfizer vax in late June, suffered the next day with a very stiff right knee joint which persisted for 3 months with nothing alleviating it, not massage, hot/cold  etc.  Later I needed a booster for the dig cert,  again I tried hard in vain to be tested covid positive. Defeated,  I went for the booster in mid November,  next day old symptoms of blood circulation, anemia were awakened with ampification. Horrrible pins needles,  skin crawling sensation, numbness, that lasted for 6 weeks. Paresthesia its called, a common enough effect of the Pfizer vax.  Strangely enough I found good info about it on a medics discussion board set up to help medics assist with their patients' ailments after vaccination. I was fortunate that the worst effects only lasted 6 weeks compared to the experience of many others.

The  benefit so far is not having to deal with the hassle of pcr tests  and saving 45 / 50 eur each time. I know of other people who suffered badly doing covid, regardless I don't have any missgivings about doing covid. I would rather do it and do it well and go through an ordeal if neccessary to gain any extra required natural immunity and then be set up for life with a naturally acquired and a very flexible virus immunity.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 31, 2021, 08:54:02 PM
Quote from: Main Street on December 31, 2021, 08:48:25 PM
Last June I decided that I needed the then prospective digital passport. I tried in vain to test covid positive but to no avail. dejected I went for  the pfizer vax in late June, suffered the next day with a very stiff right knee joint which persisted for 3 months with nothing alleviating it, not massage, hot/cold  etc.  Later I needed a booster for the dig cert,  again I tried hard in vain to be tested covid positive. Defeated,  I went for the booster in mid November,  next day old symptoms of blood circulation, anemia were awakened with ampification. Horrrible pins needles,  skin crawling sensation, numbness, that lasted for 6 weeks. Paresthesia its called, a common enough effect of the Pfizer vax.  Strangely enough I found good info about it on a medics discussion board set up to help medics assist with their patients' ailments after vaccination. I was fortunate that the worst effects only lasted 6 weeks compared to the experience of many others.

The  benefit so far is not having to deal with the hassle of pcr tests  and saving 45 / 50 eur each time. I know of other people who suffered badly doing covid, regardless I don't have any missgivings about doing covid. I would rather do it and do it well and go through an ordeal if neccessary to gain any extra required natural immunity and then be set up for life with a naturally acquired and a very flexible virus immunity.

Was it a vaccine or magic mushrooms you took?  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 09:01:10 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 31, 2021, 08:46:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 08:15:38 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 31, 2021, 05:38:19 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on December 31, 2021, 05:36:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 03:35:27 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 31, 2021, 02:39:11 PM
Here is some advise. Skull had previously shared this, but to elaborate. One of the first things covid patients get along with other meds is Vit D. They infact get alot of it depending on bloods test, but typically up to 20,000 mgs.  Almost 90% of patients admitted with covid are tested low in vit D. And one of the characteristics of obesity is low vit D.
I had been on approximately 500mgs per day but advised by my G.P. friend and colleague to up it to 4000 mgs per day in winter, early spring.

That's been known since the very early days, I always found it odd that people were not advised to take vit d supplements as a preventative measure. Supplements are readily available over the counter. Yet it never made it into any hse or public safety documentation. Maybe there's a reason for its omission, but I don't know what it is.

https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/further-evidence-that-vitamin-d-might-protect-against-severe-covid-19-disease-and-death/

People are not advised to take vit D because there is no patent on it. That's no good for the Pfizer's of this world.

Except vit d is advised... it is just not specifically advised for covid.

Why wasn't it advised as a de-risk strategy for covid. It certainly wouldn't do any harm and initial research shows positive effects?

https://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12937-021-00744-y (https://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12937-021-00744-y)

Because that's why.

It's not really blowing the theory out of the water if you read it. Its acknowledged other studies showing a more positive correlation, gave some reasons why that might be and recommended further studies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 31, 2021, 09:09:56 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 09:01:10 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 31, 2021, 08:46:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 08:15:38 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 31, 2021, 05:38:19 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on December 31, 2021, 05:36:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 03:35:27 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 31, 2021, 02:39:11 PM
Here is some advise. Skull had previously shared this, but to elaborate. One of the first things covid patients get along with other meds is Vit D. They infact get alot of it depending on bloods test, but typically up to 20,000 mgs.  Almost 90% of patients admitted with covid are tested low in vit D. And one of the characteristics of obesity is low vit D.
I had been on approximately 500mgs per day but advised by my G.P. friend and colleague to up it to 4000 mgs per day in winter, early spring.

That's been known since the very early days, I always found it odd that people were not advised to take vit d supplements as a preventative measure. Supplements are readily available over the counter. Yet it never made it into any hse or public safety documentation. Maybe there's a reason for its omission, but I don't know what it is.

https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/further-evidence-that-vitamin-d-might-protect-against-severe-covid-19-disease-and-death/

People are not advised to take vit D because there is no patent on it. That's no good for the Pfizer's of this world.

Except vit d is advised... it is just not specifically advised for covid.

Why wasn't it advised as a de-risk strategy for covid. It certainly wouldn't do any harm and initial research shows positive effects?

https://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12937-021-00744-y (https://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12937-021-00744-y)

Because that's why.

It's not really blowing the theory out of the water if you read it. Its acknowledged other studies showing a more positive correlation, gave some reasons why that might be and recommended further studies.

No it didn't. It said that further studies (if they occur) should take into account the risk factors they did not consider, in order to back up their findings which were as follows:

"Based on current evidence, vitamin D deficiency or insufficiency was not significantly linked to susceptibility to COVID-19 infection or its associated death. Vitamin D supplements did not significantly improve clinical outcomes in patients with COVID-19, and the overall GRADE evidence quality was low, which suggested that vitamin D supplementation was not recommended for patients with COVID-19."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on December 31, 2021, 09:14:54 PM
It is not approved as a treatment for covid. there hasn't been clinical trials for covid (as far as I am aware), there has been for other illnesses where I don't think it did well (I've not researched this enough). there are a number of observational studies with differing results ...

it is recommended for usage where people are deficient in Vitamin D... this was already recommended pre covid...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 09:45:17 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 31, 2021, 09:09:56 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 09:01:10 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 31, 2021, 08:46:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 08:15:38 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on December 31, 2021, 05:38:19 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on December 31, 2021, 05:36:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on December 31, 2021, 03:35:27 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on December 31, 2021, 02:39:11 PM
Here is some advise. Skull had previously shared this, but to elaborate. One of the first things covid patients get along with other meds is Vit D. They infact get alot of it depending on bloods test, but typically up to 20,000 mgs.  Almost 90% of patients admitted with covid are tested low in vit D. And one of the characteristics of obesity is low vit D.
I had been on approximately 500mgs per day but advised by my G.P. friend and colleague to up it to 4000 mgs per day in winter, early spring.

That's been known since the very early days, I always found it odd that people were not advised to take vit d supplements as a preventative measure. Supplements are readily available over the counter. Yet it never made it into any hse or public safety documentation. Maybe there's a reason for its omission, but I don't know what it is.

https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/further-evidence-that-vitamin-d-might-protect-against-severe-covid-19-disease-and-death/

People are not advised to take vit D because there is no patent on it. That's no good for the Pfizer's of this world.

Except vit d is advised... it is just not specifically advised for covid.

Why wasn't it advised as a de-risk strategy for covid. It certainly wouldn't do any harm and initial research shows positive effects?

https://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12937-021-00744-y (https://nutritionj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12937-021-00744-y)

Because that's why.

It's not really blowing the theory out of the water if you read it. Its acknowledged other studies showing a more positive correlation, gave some reasons why that might be and recommended further studies.

No it didn't. It said that further studies (if they occur) should take into account the risk factors they did not consider, in order to back up their findings which were as follows:

"Based on current evidence, vitamin D deficiency or insufficiency was not significantly linked to susceptibility to COVID-19 infection or its associated death. Vitamin D supplements did not significantly improve clinical outcomes in patients with COVID-19, and the overall GRADE evidence quality was low, which suggested that vitamin D supplementation was not recommended for patients with COVID-19."

. Although we included only studies that performed multivariable analysis, some potential risk factors were not fully adjusted, which affected our results. Therefore, further research should adjust for additional confounding factors to verify the results
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on December 31, 2021, 10:10:36 PM
Big bad pharma not making enough from the vaccines? They'd have doubled their profits if Vit D was pushed too. 'They' missed a trick there
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 31, 2021, 10:17:20 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 31, 2021, 10:10:36 PM
Big bad pharma not making enough from the vaccines? They'd have doubled their profits if Vit D was pushed too. 'They' missed a trick there
Big Vitamin. The NWO obviously aren't controlling Holland & Barrett.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on December 31, 2021, 10:41:56 PM
The wellness industry is the biggest unregulated scam ever but look over there big pharma  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on December 31, 2021, 11:17:03 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on December 31, 2021, 10:17:20 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 31, 2021, 10:10:36 PM
Big bad pharma not making enough from the vaccines? They'd have doubled their profits if Vit D was pushed too. 'They' missed a trick there
Big Vitamin. The NWO obviously aren't controlling Holland & Barrett.

They did have Hall and Nash though.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/33/92/31/33923180432852186f11f48c4706f0e3.jpg)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on December 31, 2021, 11:40:58 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 31, 2021, 10:41:56 PM
The wellness industry is the biggest unregulated scam ever but look over there big pharma  ::)

This.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PeterEli on January 01, 2022, 02:28:13 PM
Does anyone know turn around time for PCR test results in the North? They state 24-48 hours and I know there is a huge backlog at present, waiting over 48 hours now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 01, 2022, 02:33:22 PM
Quote from: PeterEli on January 01, 2022, 02:28:13 PM
Does anyone know turn around time for PCR test results in the North? They state 24-48 hours and I know there is a huge backlog at present, waiting over 48 hours now.

Would have been 15 - 24 hours up until this latest variant Peter. Our last took over 35 hrs (a week ago). Will prob land soon, if not, it could come back tomorrow 'void' and you'd have to retest. Serious backlog though as you say
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PeterEli on January 01, 2022, 03:00:37 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 01, 2022, 02:33:22 PM
Quote from: PeterEli on January 01, 2022, 02:28:13 PM
Does anyone know turn around time for PCR test results in the North? They state 24-48 hours and I know there is a huge backlog at present, waiting over 48 hours now.

Would have been 15 - 24 hours up until this latest variant Peter. Our last took over 35 hrs (a week ago). Will prob land soon, if not, it could come back tomorrow 'void' and you'd have to retest. Serious backlog though as you say

Cheers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on January 01, 2022, 04:08:00 PM
Had a test a 4pm on 27th and result at 10.30 am on 28th.
Does it depend on where you get the test ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 04:14:31 PM
It's everywhere folks. My mother, nephew, sister in law , mucker and all his wains positive today.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 01, 2022, 04:30:05 PM
Does anyone know of anyone who has tested negative (lateral flow) on days 6 and 7? Every single person I know or have heard of is still positive on days 6 and 7.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PeterEli on January 01, 2022, 04:43:02 PM
Quote from: delgany on January 01, 2022, 04:08:00 PM
Had a test a 4pm on 27th and result at 10.30 am on 28th.
Does it depend on where you get the test ?

Enniskillen.

Wife and her sister tested at same time as me, one back positive one negative. Still no word myself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 01, 2022, 04:44:15 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 01, 2022, 04:30:05 PM
Does anyone know of anyone who has tested negative (lateral flow) on days 6 and 7? Every single person I know or have heard of is still positive on days 6 and 7.
Asked the missus and couple of people she knows tested at 6 and 7 were positive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 01, 2022, 08:52:14 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on January 01, 2022, 08:41:55 PM
Why vaccine trials weren't responsible 'science' – not even close

https://www.wnd.com/2021/12/vaccine-trials-werent-responsible-science-not-even-close/ (https://www.wnd.com/2021/12/vaccine-trials-werent-responsible-science-not-even-close/)

You posted on page 1242 about vitamin D and I replied any chance you could provide the evidence I asked for and the dose of vitamin D you suggested?

also look up the AAPS to see who you are aligning your views with...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 01, 2022, 09:06:45 PM
Dr. Anti vaccine Orient and WND far-right website is known for promoting falsehoods and conspiracy theories. Ah yes the type of articles to back up ones opinions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 01, 2022, 09:10:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 04:14:31 PM
It's everywhere folks. My mother, nephew, sister in law , mucker and all his wains positive today.

In reality I think we're all getting it sooner or later.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 01, 2022, 09:20:14 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on January 01, 2022, 08:41:55 PM
Why vaccine trials weren't responsible 'science' – not even close

https://www.wnd.com/2021/12/vaccine-trials-werent-responsible-science-not-even-close/ (https://www.wnd.com/2021/12/vaccine-trials-werent-responsible-science-not-even-close/)

You wouldn't recognise responsible science if it walked up to you and attempted to batter some sense into you.


The reason the control groups were abandoned were because it would have been unethical to deny those in that group the clear benefits the vaccines were shown, even with preliminary data, to provide against the virus.


Does that mean the control group was lost? Largely yes.
Does that mean the vaccine studies are perfectly aligned with classical methods? No.
Does that mean its bad science? No*.


If using the vaccine reduces your risk of serious illness or death by a hundred-fold (for example), and the rate of serious illness/disease per infection is running at around 0.1%; and the vaccine can induce significant side effects in 1 case in 1,000,000 - your still 10 times better off by taking the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 09:25:35 PM
It's like this the vaccines work. They aren't full proof but what is. Jury still out on need for booster for me personally.. protecting workers in critical jobs is crucial and if it's proven that we need the booster to stop Omicron causing hospitalisations I'll be backing it. It defs in stopping reinfections, that's very clear even now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 01, 2022, 10:20:42 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 01, 2022, 09:10:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 04:14:31 PM
It's everywhere folks. My mother, nephew, sister in law , mucker and all his wains positive today.

In reality I think we're all getting it sooner or later.

I think so too Tommy, well the vast majority. Some won't catch it for whatever reason. I know of a few households, my own included where all members of the family got it and one of the parents didn't.

The right wing has really made hay during this pandemic. I doubt they even thought there would be so many gullible folk on this island looking to them for guidance and expertise. A real eye opener
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 01, 2022, 10:32:49 PM
The misinformation and the sucking up of it is bonkers. It has created so much division too.

Yeah I know households where oddly say one parent hasn't had it. We'd a small baby, a year ago, and neither of us got it. If the positive cases are 7k before schools go back then they will go through the roof when schools back.

I would still be hopeful it's nothing too severe but I guess time will tell. People with kids at school age or below can't avoid being at risk.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 01, 2022, 11:44:55 PM
It seems now that the emerging risk isn't about hospitalisation and death directly related to cases but case numbers impacting on wider delivery within the NHS and the economy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 11:53:37 PM
It does appear that way but things move swiftly as we have seen a few times but the govt reducing isolation times maybe tells us a thing or 2
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on January 01, 2022, 11:54:56 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.
What would need to change for you to get it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 11:56:15 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 01, 2022, 11:54:56 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.
What would need to change for you to get it?

Omicron makes people sick to the levels previous variants have
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2022, 12:29:07 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on January 02, 2022, 12:16:00 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 01, 2022, 10:20:42 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 01, 2022, 09:10:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 04:14:31 PM
It's everywhere folks. My mother, nephew, sister in law , mucker and all his wains positive today.

In reality I think we're all getting it sooner or later.

I think so too Tommy, well the vast majority. Some won't catch it for whatever reason. I know of a few households, my own included where all members of the family got it and one of the parents didn't.

The right wing has really made hay during this pandemic. I doubt they even thought there would be so many gullible folk on this island looking to them for guidance and expertise. A real eye opener

Interesting term. There is also a school of thought prevailing that up half the population took a vaccine they didn't need to. Its mental to think u25s taking something that carries more risk to them than the virus did.

More risk? Have you a stat for that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NotedObserver on January 02, 2022, 02:02:48 AM
Heading for my second vax in the morning. I've had one jab then got covid and just haven't got the second one for a variety of reasons.

How long will vax passports be in place you think?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 02, 2022, 08:42:10 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on January 02, 2022, 12:36:22 AM
Look it up yourself.

So you haven't got a stat for that? Ok
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 02, 2022, 09:57:07 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 01, 2022, 11:44:55 PM
It seems now that the emerging risk isn't about hospitalisation and death directly related to cases but case numbers impacting on wider delivery within the NHS and the economy.

I am starting to wonder if omicron proves less severe will they start differentiating in terms of isolation etc if someone is positive for it vs delta.

At the current rate they will have bother staffing hospitals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: OgraAnDun on January 02, 2022, 10:23:35 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on January 02, 2022, 12:36:22 AM
Look it up yourself.

;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on January 02, 2022, 10:24:58 AM
Quote from: OgraAnDun on January 02, 2022, 10:23:35 AM
Quote from: Thastheball on January 02, 2022, 12:36:22 AM
Look it up yourself.

;D
The worst come back I have ever read.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 02, 2022, 12:20:37 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on January 02, 2022, 12:14:59 PM
Whats the point. Doesn't matter what u show some of these guys, asking questions of the science and the truth is beyond some if them.

This is to the truth of the current status

https://www.americaoutloud.com/omicron-breaks-through-natural-and-vaccine-immunity-in-a-battle-against-delta/   (https://www.americaoutloud.com/omicron-breaks-through-natural-and-vaccine-immunity-in-a-battle-against-delta/)

The Pharmaceutical and Medical industry seen that there was a chance that Omicron could be the end of needing/relying on Vaccinations. So there has been an consorted push to get rid of as much production as possible. They will be as wanted as Dublin 7 in a row T-shirts in a few weeks!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 02, 2022, 12:34:41 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on January 02, 2022, 12:14:59 PM
Whats the point. Doesn't matter what u show some of these guys, asking questions of the science and the truth is beyond some if them.

This is to the truth of the current status

https://www.americaoutloud.com/omicron-breaks-through-natural-and-vaccine-immunity-in-a-battle-against-delta/   (https://www.americaoutloud.com/omicron-breaks-through-natural-and-vaccine-immunity-in-a-battle-against-delta/)

still waiting for vitamin d evidence as per you post on 1242 and correction of 20000mgs.....

very few on here want to read politicised medical opinions which you keep posting...

why do you believe one medical profession over another? Why do you believe the American right wing medical professionals over regulator and clinical trials.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 02, 2022, 12:53:28 PM
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/customer-loses-discrimination-case-against-store-after-being-refused-entry-without-mask-41203053.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 02, 2022, 12:57:36 PM
https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/experts-warn-covid-conspiracy-groups-may-pivot-to-climate-misinformation-in-2022-1236617.html

Ciaran o'Connor a Roscommon man (kiltoom) doing some good work on right wing dis information.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 02, 2022, 01:21:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 02, 2022, 12:53:28 PM
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/customer-loses-discrimination-case-against-store-after-being-refused-entry-without-mask-41203053.html
What a w**ker. Hopefully he got landed with a hefty legal bill.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on January 02, 2022, 01:58:59 PM
Everyone is struggling and you have wankers like that fella putting extra pressure on. Its a pity covid wouldn't disproportionately effect the stupid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 02, 2022, 02:48:43 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 02, 2022, 01:58:59 PM
Everyone is struggling and you have wankers like that fella putting extra pressure on. Its a pity covid wouldn't disproportionately effect the stupid.

It does though. The big majority of icu patients are unvaccinated even though they are only a small minority of the population. The majority at this stage who get seriously ill or die are unvaccinated. An extremely sad but perfect example below.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/mother-29-refused-vaccine-she-145459166.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 02, 2022, 03:49:42 PM
The data does suggest being unvaccinated with co-morbidities is a bad risk call.
I don't think you're going to get much disagreement there len.

But shouldn't we ALL be making more noise about how big a factor obesity is here? The vast vast majority of ICU patients (vaccinated and unvaccinated) are obese.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 02, 2022, 04:45:25 PM
https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/covid19/people-at-higher-risk/obesity/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 02, 2022, 05:14:16 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 02, 2022, 03:49:42 PM
But shouldn't we ALL be making more noise about how big a factor obesity is here? The vast vast majority of ICU patients (vaccinated and unvaccinated) are obese.

::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on January 02, 2022, 05:25:48 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 02, 2022, 05:14:16 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 02, 2022, 03:49:42 PM
But shouldn't we ALL be making more noise about how big a factor obesity is here? The vast vast majority of ICU patients (vaccinated and unvaccinated) are obese.

::)

There's no pill you can take for obesity, it's a long game so making noise about it with regards to covid isn't much use.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 02, 2022, 05:41:48 PM
there are hundreds of articles etc. on obesity and covid... and obesity impacts almost all other health issues.. Operation transformation on RTE is an example of a method of trying to help people take more healthy option... calories on menus etc.  What are you suggesting?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 02, 2022, 06:15:30 PM
Nowhere near the amount of attention that needs to be given to it in my opinion seeing that its the big common denominator in ICUs, though I would never be happy with the media using the same pejorative language used to describe all the unvaccinated. We can all agree that would be vile.
I respect you having a different perspective. Lets agree to differ
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 02, 2022, 07:09:45 PM
if there was a simple vaccine for obesity or the elderly or for those with other issues that make them high risk like there is for  covid then it would be comparable...

the high risk people I'd imagine are fully aware of it in most cases, so the only real outcome I can see for singling them out from all other guidelines (more so than is already done) is to suggest that these cohorts should have to isolate so the healthy can go back to as normal as possible... I done think this possible or fair.  I struggle with the covid vaccine passport but on balance agree with it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 02, 2022, 08:42:34 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 02, 2022, 06:15:30 PM
Nowhere near the amount of attention that needs to be given to it in my opinion seeing that its the big common denominator in ICUs, though I would never be happy with the media using the same pejorative language used to describe all the unvaccinated. We can all agree that would be vile.
I respect you having a different perspective. Lets agree to differ
Even Boris Johnson was going on a year ago and being a fatty, not a fatty to beat Covid. January will be full of weight loss md fitness programmes on tv. People know the relationship between obesity and poor(er) health. You either choose to ignore it or you don't but additional "messaging" probably will make no difference.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 02, 2022, 09:24:26 PM
I'm not arguing Tony that it hasn't been mentioned. I'm saying that not enough has been made of it in public health messaging coming through main stream media. I presume all this "pandemic of the unvaccinated" strategy they've deployed was intended to steer people into getting vaccinated.... don't see why a similar strategy focusing on the obese wouldn't have woke some folk up and arguable have brought about better outcomes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 02, 2022, 09:53:13 PM
There is a lot of talk of obesity and suchlike, largely in an attempt to imply that if people who are ill from Covid then it is their own fault and they shouldn't be stopping people going to the pub. No doubt reduced obesity would have health benefits generally, but it would have very little effect on the Covid pandemic. There are probably other genetic factors that predispose people to Covid, these have not been fully tabulated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 03, 2022, 05:30:24 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 02, 2022, 09:24:26 PM
I'm not arguing Tony that it hasn't been mentioned. I'm saying that not enough has been made of it in public health messaging coming through main stream media. I presume all this "pandemic of the unvaccinated" strategy they've deployed was intended to steer people into getting vaccinated.... don't see why a similar strategy focusing on the obese wouldn't have woke some folk up and arguable have brought about better outcomes.

Poor health is correlated with obesity beyond a certain age but politicians are unlikely to draw attention to it because ultimately  it is a political issue. In the UK the red wall voted Tory because they expected to be helped  ThevTories aren't going to start condemning them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NotedObserver on January 03, 2022, 11:43:58 AM
How long will vax passports be in the place?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 03, 2022, 12:03:19 PM
Vax passports are the alternative to lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 03, 2022, 12:35:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 03, 2022, 12:03:19 PM
Vax passports are the alternative to lockdown.

That's really funny, that is!  ;D  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Only thing missing was you should have wrote it in Irish!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 03, 2022, 01:12:11 PM
Wheeling out that conspiracy nutjob McCullough again - is that all you have now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 03, 2022, 01:33:54 PM
Where is the stat that most people in ICU are obese coming from? I had a dig round and couldn't see it. I noticed in the states there are cdc stats that 30.3% of 900k hospitalised are / were obese which isn't exactly most. There are also studies saying that you are more likely to come to harm from COVID if you are obese but that's not exactly rocket science.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 03, 2022, 01:45:21 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 03, 2022, 01:33:54 PM
Where is the stat that most people in ICU are obese coming from? I had a dig round and couldn't see it. I noticed in the states there are cdc stats that 30.3% of 900k hospitalised are / were obese which isn't exactly most. There are also studies saying that you are more likely to come to harm from COVID if you are obese but that's not exactly rocket science.

It's all about the bogeymen. They'll be another one along as soon as one of the right wing social media influences coins (literally) another one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 03, 2022, 02:45:40 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 03, 2022, 01:45:21 PM
It's all about the bogeymen. They'll be another one along as soon as one of the right wing social media influences coins (literally) another one.

Probably Ryan Turbridy and other bean pole people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 03, 2022, 03:00:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 03, 2022, 01:33:54 PM
Where is the stat that most people in ICU are obese coming from? I had a dig round and couldn't see it. I noticed in the states there are cdc stats that 30.3% of 900k hospitalised are / were obese which isn't exactly most. There are also studies saying that you are more likely to come to harm from COVID if you are obese but that's not exactly rocket science.

It's from his ass. That's where he pulled it from.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 03, 2022, 03:15:40 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 03, 2022, 01:33:54 PM
Where is the stat that most people in ICU are obese coming from? I had a dig round and couldn't see it. I noticed in the states there are cdc stats that 30.3% of 900k hospitalised are / were obese which isn't exactly most. There are also studies saying that you are more likely to come to harm from COVID if you are obese but that's not exactly rocket science.

I'll be honest ... I heard it anecdotally from 2 ICU nurses who work in 2 different hospitals up here. I took their word given their day to day experience.

Searching myself online I found this CDC link to back up my confirmation bias.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm)

Among 148,494 adults who received a COVID-19 diagnosis during an emergency department (ED) or inpatient visit at 238 U.S. hospitals during March–December 2020, 28.3% had overweight and 50.8% had obesity. Overweight and obesity were risk factors for invasive mechanical ventilation, and obesity was a risk factor for hospitalization and death, particularly among adults aged <65 years. Risks for hospitalization, ICU admission, and death were lowest among patients with BMIs of 24.2 kg/m2, 25.9 kg/m2, and 23.7 kg/m2, respectively, and then increased sharply with higher BMIs. Risk for invasive mechanical ventilation increased over the full range of BMIs, from 15 kg/m2 to 60 kg/m2. As clinicians develop care plans for COVID-19 patients, they should consider the risk for severe outcomes in patients with higher BMIs, especially for those with severe obesity. These findings highlight the clinical and public health implications of higher BMIs, including the need for intensive COVID-19 illness management as obesity severity increases, promotion of COVID-19 prevention strategies including continued vaccine prioritization (6) and masking, and policies to ensure community access to nutrition and physical activities that promote and support a healthy BMI.


Stay classy redhand.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 03, 2022, 03:30:03 PM
Heres a meta analysis study.
Obesity is associated with severe disease and mortality in patients with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19): a meta-analysis

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-021-11546-6 (https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-021-11546-6)

We conducted this meta-analysis to determine whether obesity is a predictor of the COVID-19 severity of and mortality. In the present review, we included 46 articles involving 625,153 patients. Obese patients had a significantly increased risk of infection, hospitalization, severe disease mechanical ventilation, ICU admission, and mortality relative to patients of normal weight.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 03, 2022, 03:35:49 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on January 03, 2022, 03:26:32 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 03, 2022, 01:12:11 PM
Wheeling out that conspiracy nutjob McCullough again - is that all you have now?

Whats for certain is he knows alot more about this than you do. Nothing as bad as someone who loves trying to undermine and belittle people especially when they haven't a fecking clue what their talking about.


That's it Angelo???
Give up the ghost kid - time to wheel out a new alter-ego. This one is finished.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 03, 2022, 03:55:58 PM
obesity is linked to increased risk of serious illness https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/effects/index.html

how long would it take those with a bmi over 50 to get to a healthy weight? How long does it take a vaccine to offer protection? How long has it been known that obesity carries extra health risk yet if anything it is becoming a growing problem... There was many articles about covid and the high risk factors including obesity.

However, there is no vaccine for obesity. unvaccinated make up a very large number of those in hospitals and there is a easy fix for this...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 03, 2022, 04:07:53 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 03, 2022, 03:15:40 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 03, 2022, 01:33:54 PM
Where is the stat that most people in ICU are obese coming from? I had a dig round and couldn't see it. I noticed in the states there are cdc stats that 30.3% of 900k hospitalised are / were obese which isn't exactly most. There are also studies saying that you are more likely to come to harm from COVID if you are obese but that's not exactly rocket science.

I'll be honest ... I heard it anecdotally from 2 ICU nurses who work in 2 different hospitals up here. I took their word given their day to day experience.

Searching myself online I found this CDC link to back up my confirmation bias.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm)

Among 148,494 adults who received a COVID-19 diagnosis during an emergency department (ED) or inpatient visit at 238 U.S. hospitals during March–December 2020, 28.3% had overweight and 50.8% had obesity. Overweight and obesity were risk factors for invasive mechanical ventilation, and obesity was a risk factor for hospitalization and death, particularly among adults aged <65 years. Risks for hospitalization, ICU admission, and death were lowest among patients with BMIs of 24.2 kg/m2, 25.9 kg/m2, and 23.7 kg/m2, respectively, and then increased sharply with higher BMIs. Risk for invasive mechanical ventilation increased over the full range of BMIs, from 15 kg/m2 to 60 kg/m2. As clinicians develop care plans for COVID-19 patients, they should consider the risk for severe outcomes in patients with higher BMIs, especially for those with severe obesity. These findings highlight the clinical and public health implications of higher BMIs, including the need for intensive COVID-19 illness management as obesity severity increases, promotion of COVID-19 prevention strategies including continued vaccine prioritization (6) and masking, and policies to ensure community access to nutrition and physical activities that promote and support a healthy BMI.


Stay classy redhand.

https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/featured-science-from-endo-2021/hospitalized-covid-patients-with-obesity-are-significantly-more-likely-to-need-icu-care (https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/featured-science-from-endo-2021/hospitalized-covid-patients-with-obesity-are-significantly-more-likely-to-need-icu-care)

And

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41366-021-00872-9 (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41366-021-00872-9)

both have a different result to your study, so who is right???

So to sum up, we blame obese people who need ICU because obese people are more likely (not a majority) to end up in ICU, so it's their fault.
But when unvaccinated make up a disproportionate amount of ICU beds we celebrate their right to choose. Am I far off?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 03, 2022, 04:38:13 PM
Unreal    :-\

I've no intention of getting drawn in. Just trying to offer my opinion which you have every right to ignore.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2022, 04:43:02 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 03, 2022, 03:55:58 PM
obesity is linked to increased risk of serious illness https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/effects/index.html

how long would it take those with a bmi over 50 to get to a healthy weight? How long does it take a vaccine to offer protection? How long has it been known that obesity carries extra health risk yet if anything it is becoming a growing problem... There was many articles about covid and the high risk factors including obesity.

However, there is no vaccine for obesity. unvaccinated make up a very large number of those in hospitals and there is a easy fix for this...

Indeed.

And part of the reason Omicron is having a per capita relatively mild effect is because so many are vaccinated.

Its pretty simple: get f**king vaccinated so everyone can get back to a normal life and not have to worry that there won't be a hospital bed when we need it!



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 03, 2022, 04:43:48 PM
Angelo/ Bomber, on to his nxt user name. No chance Admin get their house in order and bann/block this p***k permanently. He been a plague on this board past 3/4 yrs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 03, 2022, 04:46:05 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 03, 2022, 04:38:13 PM
Unreal    :-\

I've no intention of getting drawn in. Just trying to offer my opinion which you have every right to ignore.

yes it is unreal where a vaccine exists that reduces hospitalisation from covid but isn't taken by a percentage of people you choose to focus on obesity after previously making comments about home treatments pre hospitalisation which were going through the approval processes (I think two are approved now) and according to another poster also posted about vitamin D... unreal ( its actually a lot worst than that when I had a quick look over your posts.. with McCullough and spoofer John and the Japan miracle re invermectin)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 03, 2022, 04:49:50 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 03, 2022, 04:43:48 PM
Angelo/ Bomber, on to his nxt user name. No chance Admin get their house in order and bann/block this p***k permanently. He been a plague on this board past 3/4 yrs.

You tell them WW!  ;D My particular favourite was him pretending to be an Antrim man (complete with chosen club) a few months back.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 03, 2022, 06:09:17 PM
get f**king vaccinated
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59857507 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59857507)

I have my reservations, but know fine rightly in time the data may very well show I had nothing to worry about (if I survive long enough). I'm certain of nothing as Ive said here already. The degree of certainty of some here is hard to fathom though, given the history of rushed nature of these new drugs (never mind the ethics of pharma companies in recent decades). There is so much we do not know in terms of unintended outcomes. I hope your faith has been well placed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 03, 2022, 06:15:11 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 03, 2022, 04:38:13 PM
Unreal    :-\

I've no intention of getting drawn in. Just trying to offer my opinion which you have every right to ignore.

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html (https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html)

That was what I read.

In terms of my view of degrees of certainty I wouldn't have a degree of certainty but think it's best we can do with the vaccine. I think data backs that up when you research it. One of the issues on this forum is that two or three of the main protagonists for being anti vaccine or vaccine sceptical at least have shown themselves, at best, to be people should be wearing tin foil hats. That is not because they are against vaccines. It is because when the surface was scratched that was what it showed... Also the main argumentative one has driven people demented with their various personas so tbh it has, and he does this with every thread, largely ruined any chance of any proper debate because it ends up in insults.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 03, 2022, 06:25:00 PM
This came up on my Twitter feed earlier.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/03/health/covid-weight-loss-wellness/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_content=2022-01-03T12%3A15%3A03&utm_term=link&utm_source=twCNN (https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/03/health/covid-weight-loss-wellness/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_content=2022-01-03T12%3A15%3A03&utm_term=link&utm_source=twCNN)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2022, 06:33:23 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 03, 2022, 06:09:17 PM
get f**king vaccinated
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59857507 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59857507)

I have my reservations, but know fine rightly in time the data may very well show I had nothing to worry about (if I survive long enough). I'm certain of nothing as Ive said here already. The degree of certainty of some here is hard to fathom though, given the history of rushed nature of these new drugs (never mind the ethics of pharma companies in recent decades). There is so much we do not know in terms of unintended outcomes. I hope your faith has been well placed.

Sure why take ANY medicines or undergo any type of treatment then?

Loads of them have potential, unintended harmful effects in addition to the documented side effects.

You take an aspirin, you could bleed to death. You could get a bad allergic reaction from antibiotics. The surgeon doing your open-heart surgery could accidently nick an artery with his scalpel.

The US has passed 200 million people fully vaccinated. I'm sure the rest of the world brings the total well into the hundreds of millions, if not billions.

5.5 million people have died worldwide from Covid. How many have died from the vaccine? Where is the evidence that the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NotedObserver on January 03, 2022, 06:36:34 PM
I recently got double vaxxed but how much of a help is against omicron? Not sure if it is much at all
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 03, 2022, 06:38:31 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 03, 2022, 06:09:17 PM
get f**king vaccinated
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59857507 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59857507)

I have my reservations, but know fine rightly in time the data may very well show I had nothing to worry about (if I survive long enough). I'm certain of nothing as Ive said here already. The degree of certainty of some here is hard to fathom though, given the history of rushed nature of these new drugs (never mind the ethics of pharma companies in recent decades). There is so much we do not know in terms of unintended outcomes. I hope your faith has been well placed.

see there is a number of your problems,

1. it's not faith, it's the best currently available medical science which has been clinically trialled.

2. it not just about you, it about the health service and protecting everyone. it is like insurance in a way, hopefully you never need it but its there I'd you do (not a perfect analogy).

3. you don't trust pharma companies but happily you have put your eggs in the politicalised medical professions basket who have shown not to have much ethics either, you will be hard pushed to find an industry where ethics isn't an issue...

4.  it was rushed, it was prioritisated by regulators, there was alot of research already into mrna vaccines, there was plenty of people for trials. there is plenty of reading material if you Google on how it was faster than other drugs without speculating that there must be something wrong as it was competed faster...

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 03, 2022, 06:39:23 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on January 03, 2022, 06:36:34 PM
I recently got double vaxxed but how much of a help is against omicron? Not sure if it is much at all

Google it, it helps
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 03, 2022, 06:46:50 PM
Not on for 5-11yr getting vaccinated myself but u say I could get 90% backing to get your barred from the board after numerous come backs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on January 03, 2022, 07:34:08 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on January 03, 2022, 06:41:34 PM
J70, Its not, very few here arguing that. But my gut says no until there is over whelming evidence its safe.  No hidden stories, people who have had deaths and serious side effects sidelined from telling their stories. For me its about time.

What the feck is the end game with 5-11 yr olds getting a vaccine they without doubt don't need.

How are people sidelined from telling their stories?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 03, 2022, 07:38:49 PM
Why don't Pfizer and other companies send vaccines to poor countries if that's where variants are coming from ? No money there  ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2022, 07:53:32 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on January 03, 2022, 06:35:05 PM
5-11 year olds vaccinated. Is there anyone on this thread who supports that policy?

I might as well say it now rather than wait, your  head is well up where the sun doesn't shine if u do!!

Both my kids are under 11 and vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 03, 2022, 07:58:40 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on January 03, 2022, 06:41:34 PM
J70, Its not, very few here arguing that. But my gut says no until there is over whelming evidence its safe.  No hidden stories, people who have had deaths and serious side effects sidelined from telling their stories. For me its about time.

What the feck is the end game with 5-11 yr olds getting a vaccine they without doubt don't need.

How much time?

If everyone opted for "overwhelming evidence that its safe" (whatever that would be), where would we be now?

Is it purely coincidental that the vaccinated and, especially, boosted, are faring so much better with Omicron?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 03, 2022, 08:14:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 03, 2022, 07:38:49 PM
Why don't Pfizer and other companies send vaccines to poor countries if that's where variants are coming from ? No money there  ?

Which countries? India and South Africa are the 5th and 32nd biggest countries in terms of GDP in the world, not to mention China where it originated and its second!

How do you propose getting the vaccines transported at -80C, defrosted safely, drawn up and administered correctly to billions of people?

It can't be done that easily.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 03, 2022, 08:24:55 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 03, 2022, 06:46:50 PM
Not on for 5-11yr getting vaccinated myself but u say I could get 90% backing to get your barred from the board after numerous come backs.

Children already get a dozen vaccines before they're 11. Yes I would support it if the data showed it was safe. No brainer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 03, 2022, 08:26:10 PM
Quote from: Thastheball on January 03, 2022, 12:18:02 PM
This expert view

  https://twitter.com/p_mcculloughmd/status/1477852348886224901?s=21 (https://twitter.com/p_mcculloughmd/status/1477852348886224901?s=21)

Have to say I agree
Good to hear none of the infected had serious symptoms. Looks like the vaccine is doing it's bit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 03, 2022, 09:10:44 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 03, 2022, 08:14:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 03, 2022, 07:38:49 PM
Why don't Pfizer and other companies send vaccines to poor countries if that's where variants are coming from ? No money there  ?

Which countries? India and South Africa are the 5th and 32nd biggest countries in terms of GDP in the world, not to mention China where it originated and its second!

How do you propose getting the vaccines transported at -80C, defrosted safely, drawn up and administered correctly to billions of people?

It can't be done that easily.
there's no will and no incentive either
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 03, 2022, 09:17:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 03, 2022, 09:10:44 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 03, 2022, 08:14:37 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 03, 2022, 07:38:49 PM
Why don't Pfizer and other companies send vaccines to poor countries if that's where variants are coming from ? No money there  ?

Which countries? India and South Africa are the 5th and 32nd biggest countries in terms of GDP in the world, not to mention China where it originated and its second!

How do you propose getting the vaccines transported at -80C, defrosted safely, drawn up and administered correctly to billions of people?

It can't be done that easily.
there's no will and no incentive either

it would be great if we had more of a socialist system but pharma companies are a capitalist dream. There is some irony in there....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 03, 2022, 10:42:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 02, 2022, 09:53:13 PM
There is a lot of talk of obesity and suchlike, largely in an attempt to imply that if people who are ill from Covid then it is their own fault and they shouldn't be stopping people going to the pub. No doubt reduced obesity would have health benefits generally, but it would have very little effect on the Covid pandemic. There are probably other genetic factors that predispose people to Covid, these have not been fully tabulated.
I thought it was fairly accepted that obesity was a risk factor for covid? Even if it wasnt fitter healthier people are gonna put less pressure on the NHS than an unhealthy fat population covid or no covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 04, 2022, 12:59:14 AM
Perhaps people need a better mask
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIJF-4IaIAQX-7F?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 04, 2022, 10:30:46 AM
Genetics load the gun but diet and lifestyle fire the bullet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 04, 2022, 10:37:01 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 04, 2022, 10:30:46 AM
Genetics load the gun but diet and lifestyle fire the bullet.

Well my diet and lifestyle over this period certainly put me at risk!!  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 04, 2022, 10:41:57 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59865108

What ive been thinking all along.

id be interested to see the poll re-run on boosters which was 50/50 here few weeks back. Id chance it and say it be 60/40 now for those not taking one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 04, 2022, 10:45:27 AM
Almost 900 hospitalised with Covid in the 26 this morning.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 04, 2022, 10:59:02 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 04, 2022, 10:45:27 AM
Almost 900 hospitalised with Covid in the 26 this morning.

Thats bad, id love to see the breakdown(age, vaccinated, pre-existing etc). I think that's where this is ultimately going with future strategy, its a very tricky situation to balance right- vaccines v vulnerable groups v keeping people at work and in education.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 04, 2022, 05:11:31 PM
There are now tens of thousands of people getting Covid each day. While the vast majority of these have no real problem if you have 0.5% going to hospital then you have a big number and there are 0.5% of people with other conditions where the addition of Covid would present them problems, plus there are still some unvaccinated elements. Presumably this will top out in the near future, but it is all a bit unknown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 04, 2022, 05:40:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 04, 2022, 10:59:02 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 04, 2022, 10:45:27 AM
Almost 900 hospitalised with Covid in the 26 this morning.

Thats bad, id love to see the breakdown(age, vaccinated, pre-existing etc). I think that's where this is ultimately going with future strategy, its a very tricky situation to balance right- vaccines v vulnerable groups v keeping people at work and in education.

Connacht hospitals has known outbreaks, the stays in hospital doesn't seem to be as long as previous waves though. As said already staff shortage looks to be the biggest issue for this month at least
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on January 04, 2022, 07:12:06 PM
Jesus, trying to get definition of close contact from hse website and it is so poor.

One page says 15 minutes face to face inside 2 meters  another page says 15 minutes inside 2 meters (no mention of face to face). Its important as for example travelling in a car, you wouldn't be face to face.

It also says the other person must have a pcr test and doesn't mention antigen. Very poor from public health authority
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 04, 2022, 07:16:37 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 04, 2022, 07:12:06 PM
Jesus, trying to get definition of close contact from hse website and it is so poor.

One page says 15 minutes face to face inside 2 meters  another page says 15 minutes inside 2 meters (no mention of face to face). Its important as for example travelling in a car, you wouldn't be face to face.

It also says the other person must have a pcr test and doesn't mention antigen. Very poor from public health authority

Surely a wind up?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on January 04, 2022, 07:18:33 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 04, 2022, 07:16:37 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 04, 2022, 07:12:06 PM
Jesus, trying to get definition of close contact from hse website and it is so poor.

One page says 15 minutes face to face inside 2 meters  another page says 15 minutes inside 2 meters (no mention of face to face). Its important as for example travelling in a car, you wouldn't be face to face.

It also says the other person must have a pcr test and doesn't mention antigen. Very poor from public health authority

Surely a wind up?

No its not a wind up. If you'd spent 2 years jumping through hse hoops like I have had at work you'd know how important the idea of face to face is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 04, 2022, 07:24:15 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 04, 2022, 07:18:33 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 04, 2022, 07:16:37 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 04, 2022, 07:12:06 PM
Jesus, trying to get definition of close contact from hse website and it is so poor.

One page says 15 minutes face to face inside 2 meters  another page says 15 minutes inside 2 meters (no mention of face to face). Its important as for example travelling in a car, you wouldn't be face to face.

It also says the other person must have a pcr test and doesn't mention antigen. Very poor from public health authority

Surely a wind up?

No its not a wind up. If you'd spent 2 years jumping through hse hoops like I have had at work you'd know how important the idea of face to face is.
I can tell you now if your passenger in a car has Covid and you sit beside them for 15 mins, I'd call that a close contact as you almost certainly now have Covid. You can have that advice for free.

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/covid19/contact-tracing/close-contact/ (https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/covid19/contact-tracing/close-contact/)

You are a non-household close contact if you and someone who has had a positive PCR test have been within 2 metres of each other for more than 15 minutes in total in 1 day.

When someone tests positive for COVID-19, their close contacts include people they were in close contact with in the:

48-hour period before they developed symptoms
24-hour period before their test, if they did not have symptoms
It does not include people they saw briefly and did not touch. For example talking to someone for a few minutes more than 2 metres apart.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 04, 2022, 07:27:04 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 04, 2022, 07:18:33 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 04, 2022, 07:16:37 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 04, 2022, 07:12:06 PM
Jesus, trying to get definition of close contact from hse website and it is so poor.

One page says 15 minutes face to face inside 2 meters  another page says 15 minutes inside 2 meters (no mention of face to face). Its important as for example travelling in a car, you wouldn't be face to face.

It also says the other person must have a pcr test and doesn't mention antigen. Very poor from public health authority

Surely a wind up?

No its not a wind up. If you'd spent 2 years jumping through hse hoops like I have had at work you'd know how important the idea of face to face is.

If someone is including face-to-face in government guidelines, then that is just stupid.

And if you're in a car, it matters even less. You're both in the same small environment, breathing the same air.

I wouldn't be relying on parsing face-to-face/side-to-side from a health standpoint.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on January 04, 2022, 07:29:06 PM
From another page on hse website. Face to Face has been in hse advice since day 1, stupid or not.

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/covid19/testing/close-contact-variant-of-concern/

There are two main types of close contact - household and non-household

You are a household close contact if you:

live or sleep in the same home as a person who has tested positive
use a kitchen or bathroom in shared accommodation with a person who has tested positive
are a sexual partner of a person who has tested positive
You are a non-household close contact if you spend more than a total of 15 minutes of face-to-face contact with someone who had a positive PCR test. This contact can happen over a 24 hour period and you must have been within 2 metres of that person.

It also references PCR test not antigen even though you could be waiting 2 days for a pcr test.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 04, 2022, 10:03:02 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FISKpMxWYAsO06g?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 04, 2022, 10:27:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 04, 2022, 10:03:02 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FISKpMxWYAsO06g?format=jpg&name=medium)

Bt48. Everyone of them a Fenian . West Bank Abú
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on January 04, 2022, 11:10:22 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 11:56:15 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 01, 2022, 11:54:56 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.
What would need to change for you to get it?

Omicron makes people sick to the levels previous variants have
All the same, thousands of people are in hospital with omicron and 90% of those in ICU in UK are not boostered.  It seems a win win to me to take the booster to protect yourself and not risk being a burden on the NHS.  Every cancer op cancelled because of a non-boostered patient in ICU is a tragedy all round.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 05, 2022, 03:59:27 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-health-service-in-for-rough-two-months-but-should-cope-1.4768791


With early research showing the protection offered by boosters waning after just one month, for example, what role will vaccination play in tackling Covid-19 in the future?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on January 05, 2022, 08:11:22 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 04, 2022, 07:29:06 PM
From another page on hse website. Face to Face has been in hse advice since day 1, stupid or not.

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/covid19/testing/close-contact-variant-of-concern/

There are two main types of close contact - household and non-household

You are a household close contact if you:

live or sleep in the same home as a person who has tested positive
use a kitchen or bathroom in shared accommodation with a person who has tested positive
are a sexual partner of a person who has tested positive
You are a non-household close contact if you spend more than a total of 15 minutes of face-to-face contact with someone who had a positive PCR test. This contact can happen over a 24 hour period and you must have been within 2 metres of that person.

It also references PCR test not antigen even though you could be waiting 2 days for a pcr test.
That's an out of date page Itchy

This is current advice:
https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/covid19/contact-tracing/close-contact/

You are a non-household close contact if you were within 2 meters for more than 15 minutes. You should be prudent in any event. As per the rules, and depending on vaccination status, no hard restrictions for non-household close contacts, so long as you have no symptoms and you test negative on antigen tests over a period of time.

My good mate caught it from a car journey of 45 minutes with someone on a Thursday in early December. He was informed he was a close contact on the Saturday and became symptomatic on the Sunday and duly tested positive. On the Friday, I sat beside him in a restaurant for 4 hours and didn't catch it from him. We presume it was Delta as too early for Omicron. So you can be unlucky or lucky.
(As an aside he's a fit 40 year old, double jabbed. Had a very miserable 2 weeks in bed. Worst symptoms being migraines and exhaustion. Also lost taste and smell, which he reckons is just about coming back now, 4 weeks later).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 05, 2022, 08:52:20 AM
https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o1 (https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o1)

That's interesting. Title "Covid-19: An urgent call for global "vaccines-plus" action".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Man Marker on January 05, 2022, 09:28:31 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 04, 2022, 07:24:15 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 04, 2022, 07:18:33 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 04, 2022, 07:16:37 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 04, 2022, 07:12:06 PM
Jesus, trying to get definition of close contact from hse website and it is so poor.

One page says 15 minutes face to face inside 2 meters  another page says 15 minutes inside 2 meters (no mention of face to face). Its important as for example travelling in a car, you wouldn't be face to face.

It also says the other person must have a pcr test and doesn't mention antigen. Very poor from public health authority

Surely a wind up?

No its not a wind up. If you'd spent 2 years jumping through hse hoops like I have had at work you'd know how important the idea of face to face is.
I can tell you now if your passenger in a car has Covid and you sit beside them for 15 mins, I'd call that a close contact as you almost certainly now have Covid. You can have that advice for free.

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/covid19/contact-tracing/close-contact/ (https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/covid19/contact-tracing/close-contact/)

You are a non-household close contact if you and someone who has had a positive PCR test have been within 2 metres of each other for more than 15 minutes in total in 1 day.

When someone tests positive for COVID-19, their close contacts include people they were in close contact with in the:

48-hour period before they developed symptoms
24-hour period before their test, if they did not have symptoms
It does not include people they saw briefly and did not touch. For example talking to someone for a few minutes more than 2 metres apart.

I sat beside my son for 45 mins in the car at about 4pm on a Saturday, we didn't know he was positive. Test positive in the morning with LFT following symptoms. I didn't get it. My wife sleep the entire night beside my daughter (daughter had a sore head about 11pm and couldn't sleep) Daughter tested positive the next morning. None of us got it. Thats close contact. Fortunately it doesn't make an ounce of sense
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2022, 10:15:35 AM
You cant predict transmission you can only reduce the chances. I had covid and nobody in house got it. My mother had it twice and my da never got it. We didn't isolate in separate rooms or anything like that, just within household. At the minute my mother, sis, sis in law, 2 nephews(either side of the house), 3 in office all have it-these are all adults.  4 of the 8  have been boostered, all have been double jabbed, all mild symptoms so far thank God. My friends wife and 2 wains had it last week but he didn't get it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Man Marker on January 05, 2022, 10:48:46 AM
Any of you guys know anything about this ? About five minutes of conversation

https://www.facebook.com/dan.bongino/videos/345925763626478 (https://www.facebook.com/dan.bongino/videos/345925763626478)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 05, 2022, 11:07:29 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2022, 10:15:35 AM
You cant predict transmission you can only reduce the chances. I had covid and nobody in house got it. My mother had it twice and my da never got it. We didn't isolate in separate rooms or anything like that, just within household. At the minute my mother, sis, sis in law, 2 nephews(either side of the house), 3 in office all have it-these are all adults.  4 of the 8  have been boostered, all have been double jabbed, all mild symptoms so far thank God. My friends wife and 2 wains had it last week but he didn't get it.
This has been the case throughout, I have had loads of close prolonged contacts but haven't tested positive yet. Strange that so little work has been done on the susceptablitiy mechanisms, it just cant be down to luck.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 05, 2022, 11:14:32 AM
Quote from: Man Marker on January 05, 2022, 10:48:46 AM
Any of you guys know anything about this ? About five minutes of conversation

https://www.facebook.com/dan.bongino/videos/345925763626478 (https://www.facebook.com/dan.bongino/videos/345925763626478)
Thankfully the mono-colonal atibody treatment protocols appear to be breaking through after the active supression of their use which is just mind boggling that our CMOs would be party to such a thing. Humans in positions of power can turn real nasty when their salary depends on it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 05, 2022, 11:45:45 AM
firstly, you don't get accurate news from Fox. They are politicising Medicine and listening to even a small section of that video it came through loud and clear. (I didn't watch it all)

There is now two early treatment medications approved that I am aware of, one from Pzifer and one from Merck (the invermectin people). Both approved for use very recently but from clinical trials I think Pzifer is better. I think there are others that had emergency approval after successful clinical trials.

I am not sure that i should be surprised that those with issues with masks and vaccinations and the time it took to develop them appear to have no issue taking medication that is not approved after clinical trials or more recently just approved. also there was no suppression, they just haven't been through clinical trials and approved for use... there has been a lot of articles and information on them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 05, 2022, 11:56:58 AM
Mono clonal antibodies have a role. However, they are expensive and those developed for the original variant have not proved very effective against Omicron. The Pfizer anti viral will be a real help.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 05, 2022, 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 05, 2022, 11:45:45 AM
firstly, you don't get accurate news from Fox. They are politicising Medicine and listening to even a small section of that video it came through loud and clear. (I didn't watch it all)

There is now two early treatment medications approved that I am aware of, one from Pzifer and one from Merck (the invermectin people). Both approved for use very recently but from clinical trials I think Pzifer is better. I think there are others that had emergency approval after successful clinical trials.

I am not sure that i should be surprised that those with issues with masks and vaccinations and the time it took to develop them appear to have no issue taking medication that is not approved after clinical trials or more recently just approved. also there was no suppression, they just haven't been through clinical trials and approved for use... there has been a lot of articles and information on them.

Dan Bongino is a far right, conspiracy theorist troll.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 05, 2022, 01:12:10 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59880263

I'm not having a go at him, but he has been pretty unfortunate with this.
     If i'm reading this correctly he has had to isolate for a total of 57 days including the latest self isolation.
    I was about to add that it can't have helped his public persona and popularity but in all honesty prob wont have much effect.   
     
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 05, 2022, 01:47:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 05, 2022, 11:56:58 AM
Mono clonal antibodies have a role. However, they are expensive and those developed for the original variant have not proved very effective against Omicron. The Pfizer anti viral will be a real help.

Over 200 times more expensive than a dose of the vaccine
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 05, 2022, 02:48:09 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 05, 2022, 01:47:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 05, 2022, 11:56:58 AM
Mono clonal antibodies have a role. However, they are expensive and those developed for the original variant have not proved very effective against Omicron. The Pfizer anti viral will be a real help.

Over 200 times more expensive than a dose of the vaccine

Surely then this is where a lot of the big pharma, suppression of information, MSM conspiracy theories all fall down. Surely if they are all in cahoots, then they'd be pushing to make as much cash as possible  ???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on January 05, 2022, 03:17:20 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 05, 2022, 08:11:22 AM
Quote from: Itchy on January 04, 2022, 07:29:06 PM
From another page on hse website. Face to Face has been in hse advice since day 1, stupid or not.

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/covid19/testing/close-contact-variant-of-concern/

There are two main types of close contact - household and non-household

You are a household close contact if you:

live or sleep in the same home as a person who has tested positive
use a kitchen or bathroom in shared accommodation with a person who has tested positive
are a sexual partner of a person who has tested positive
You are a non-household close contact if you spend more than a total of 15 minutes of face-to-face contact with someone who had a positive PCR test. This contact can happen over a 24 hour period and you must have been within 2 metres of that person.

It also references PCR test not antigen even though you could be waiting 2 days for a pcr test.
That's an out of date page Itchy

This is current advice:
https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/covid19/contact-tracing/close-contact/

You are a non-household close contact if you were within 2 meters for more than 15 minutes. You should be prudent in any event. As per the rules, and depending on vaccination status, no hard restrictions for non-household close contacts, so long as you have no symptoms and you test negative on antigen tests over a period of time.

My good mate caught it from a car journey of 45 minutes with someone on a Thursday in early December. He was informed he was a close contact on the Saturday and became symptomatic on the Sunday and duly tested positive. On the Friday, I sat beside him in a restaurant for 4 hours and didn't catch it from him. We presume it was Delta as too early for Omicron. So you can be unlucky or lucky.
(As an aside he's a fit 40 year old, double jabbed. Had a very miserable 2 weeks in bed. Worst symptoms being migraines and exhaustion. Also lost taste and smell, which he reckons is just about coming back now, 4 weeks later).

Hard to know what's out if date and what isn't. My point is it's very confusing. Especially referencing dates against pcr tests which you can't get.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on January 05, 2022, 04:23:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 05, 2022, 03:59:27 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-health-service-in-for-rough-two-months-but-should-cope-1.4768791


With early research showing the protection offered by boosters waning after just one month, for example, what role will vaccination play in tackling Covid-19 in the future?

I think that there are a lot of throw away comments about "waning" immunity.  One part of immunity is made up of anti-bodies, which are good to stop you getting sick in first place.   There is definitive evidence of these waning after shots.

However studies show that T-Cell and B-Cell last a lot longer.  Good explanation here (with citations in table): 

https://erictopol.substack.com/p/humans-2-omicron-1

These cells will tackle the virus stopping you getting seriously ill. 

I think if this ends up endemic with a variant like Omicron, you will see booster doses for vulnerable each winter.  This will help with slowing spikes and hospitalizations.   The rest will make do.

/Jim.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim_Murphy_74 on January 05, 2022, 04:26:02 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 04, 2022, 05:40:28 PM
Connacht hospitals has known outbreaks, the stays in hospital doesn't seem to be as long as previous waves though. As said already staff shortage looks to be the biggest issue for this month at least

What is it with Saolta group?  They seem to have a lot of in-house outbreaks? 

ULH very bad for outbreaks too, but they have a long history on overcrowding so I guess that contributes.

/Jim.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 05, 2022, 04:43:38 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 05, 2022, 02:48:09 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 05, 2022, 01:47:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 05, 2022, 11:56:58 AM
Mono clonal antibodies have a role. However, they are expensive and those developed for the original variant have not proved very effective against Omicron. The Pfizer anti viral will be a real help.

Over 200 times more expensive than a dose of the vaccine

Surely then this is where a lot of the big pharma, suppression of information, MSM conspiracy theories all fall down. Surely if they are all in cahoots, then they'd be pushing to make as much cash as possible  ???

Agreed.  But the 'Big Pharma' bullshit fell over the minute the antivaxx loons started pushing Ivermectin...

which is made by...

yeah you guessed it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on January 05, 2022, 05:24:39 PM
Absenteeism at work at 30% since we started back. I heard on news 8k teachers out with covid out of 27k nationwide in Republic which is also around 30%. Expected to get worse so not sure how the country stays open in these circumstances.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 05, 2022, 05:30:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 05, 2022, 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 05, 2022, 11:45:45 AM
firstly, you don't get accurate news from Fox. They are politicising Medicine and listening to even a small section of that video it came through loud and clear. (I didn't watch it all)

There is now two early treatment medications approved that I am aware of, one from Pzifer and one from Merck (the invermectin people). Both approved for use very recently but from clinical trials I think Pzifer is better. I think there are others that had emergency approval after successful clinical trials.

I am not sure that i should be surprised that those with issues with masks and vaccinations and the time it took to develop them appear to have no issue taking medication that is not approved after clinical trials or more recently just approved. also there was no suppression, they just haven't been through clinical trials and approved for use... there has been a lot of articles and information on them.

Dan Bongino is a far right, conspiracy theorist troll.

Plenty of Irish men lapping the old right wing up rethoric these days!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 05, 2022, 05:32:23 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 05, 2022, 04:43:38 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 05, 2022, 02:48:09 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 05, 2022, 01:47:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 05, 2022, 11:56:58 AM
Mono clonal antibodies have a role. However, they are expensive and those developed for the original variant have not proved very effective against Omicron. The Pfizer anti viral will be a real help.

Over 200 times more expensive than a dose of the vaccine

Surely then this is where a lot of the big pharma, suppression of information, MSM conspiracy theories all fall down. Surely if they are all in cahoots, then they'd be pushing to make as much cash as possible  ???

Agreed.  But the 'Big Pharma' bullshit fell over the minute the antivaxx loons started pushing Ivermectin...

which is made by...

yeah you guessed it

And vitamin D? Pfizer vit D and a vaccine cost the same give or take . Yet they spend billions on the vaccine rather than push the vit D... Some binlids at the wheel at Pfizer
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2022, 06:40:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 05, 2022, 05:24:39 PM
Absenteeism at work at 30% since we started back. I heard on news 8k teachers out with covid out of 27k nationwide in Republic which is also around 30%. Expected to get worse so not sure how the country stays open in these circumstances.

Probably by reducing isolation period further, watch this space
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on January 05, 2022, 07:24:20 PM
Looks like the squeeze is being put on isolation times and that seems like a natural progression.

The move to using LFTs instead of PCR as proof of Covid could see a few rogue results at opportune times.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 05, 2022, 07:33:34 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2022, 06:40:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 05, 2022, 05:24:39 PM
Absenteeism at work at 30% since we started back. I heard on news 8k teachers out with covid out of 27k nationwide in Republic which is also around 30%. Expected to get worse so not sure how the country stays open in these circumstances.

Probably by refusing isolation period further, watch this space

Reducing? I asked a few days ago did anyone know anyone to test negative with a lateral flow 6/7 days after symptoms start... Still haven't heard of any.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 05, 2022, 07:47:34 PM
Quote from: ONeill on January 05, 2022, 07:24:20 PM
Looks like the squeeze is being put on isolation times and that seems like a natural progression.

The move to using LFTs instead of PCR as proof of Covid could see a few rogue results at opportune times.

Thought the same myself. There's enough useless chancers about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 05, 2022, 07:51:43 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 05, 2022, 07:33:34 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2022, 06:40:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 05, 2022, 05:24:39 PM
Absenteeism at work at 30% since we started back. I heard on news 8k teachers out with covid out of 27k nationwide in Republic which is also around 30%. Expected to get worse so not sure how the country stays open in these circumstances.

Probably by refusing isolation period further, watch this space

Reducing? I asked a few days ago did anyone know anyone to test negative with a lateral flow 6/7 days after symptoms start... Still haven't heard of any.

Heard one this evening. That's from about 4 I think that I know of.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2022, 08:16:47 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 05, 2022, 07:33:34 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2022, 06:40:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 05, 2022, 05:24:39 PM
Absenteeism at work at 30% since we started back. I heard on news 8k teachers out with covid out of 27k nationwide in Republic which is also around 30%. Expected to get worse so not sure how the country stays open in these circumstances.

Probably by refusing isolation period further, watch this space

Reducing? I asked a few days ago did anyone know anyone to test negative with a lateral flow 6/7 days after symptoms start... Still haven't heard of any.

I've no data on that Jog2, i think it's already 7 days with negative lft. Can't see them being able to push past 5 days but the pressure is on.  They seem to be stripping restrictions away daily
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2022, 08:25:06 PM
Quote from: ONeill on January 05, 2022, 07:24:20 PM
Looks like the squeeze is being put on isolation times and that seems like a natural progression.

The move to using LFTs instead of PCR as proof of Covid could see a few rogue results at opportune times.

Lfts are unreliable, my nephew got negative lfts directly before and after postive Pcr
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 05, 2022, 08:27:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2022, 08:25:06 PM
Quote from: ONeill on January 05, 2022, 07:24:20 PM
Looks like the squeeze is being put on isolation times and that seems like a natural progression.

The move to using LFTs instead of PCR as proof of Covid could see a few rogue results at opportune times.

Lfts are unreliable, my nephew got negative lfts directly before and after postive Pcr

I know plenty who had lateral which was positive, they did another one and it was positive and eventually went for a PCR, guess what? It was positive, crazy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2022, 08:36:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 05, 2022, 08:27:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2022, 08:25:06 PM
Quote from: ONeill on January 05, 2022, 07:24:20 PM
Looks like the squeeze is being put on isolation times and that seems like a natural progression.

The move to using LFTs instead of PCR as proof of Covid could see a few rogue results at opportune times.

Lfts are unreliable, my nephew got negative lfts directly before and after postive Pcr

I know plenty who had lateral which was positive, they did another one and it was positive and eventually went for a PCR, guess what? It was positive, crazy

Ach come on , the point is we all probably know cases like I've pointed out which will lead to cases slipping through more often with today's reduced restrictions.
I think we just need to hope that this Omicron is much less serious. I think govt are gambling on that with the data they already have
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on January 05, 2022, 08:51:16 PM
My OH hasn't had a negative LFT in about two months, yet the PCRs in that period have been negative.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 05, 2022, 09:41:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 05, 2022, 05:24:39 PM
Absenteeism at work at 30% since we started back. I heard on news 8k teachers out with covid out of 27k nationwide in Republic which is also around 30%. Expected to get worse so not sure how the country stays open in these circumstances.
Crazy. Really need to stop testing people who aren't sick and get rid of isolating altogether.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on January 05, 2022, 09:49:13 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 05, 2022, 09:41:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 05, 2022, 05:24:39 PM
Absenteeism at work at 30% since we started back. I heard on news 8k teachers out with covid out of 27k nationwide in Republic which is also around 30%. Expected to get worse so not sure how the country stays open in these circumstances.
Crazy. Really need to stop testing people who aren't sick and get rid of isolating altogether.
30% is very high. Any idea is that workplace transmission or a work party? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 05, 2022, 09:52:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2022, 08:16:47 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 05, 2022, 07:33:34 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2022, 06:40:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 05, 2022, 05:24:39 PM
Absenteeism at work at 30% since we started back. I heard on news 8k teachers out with covid out of 27k nationwide in Republic which is also around 30%. Expected to get worse so not sure how the country stays open in these circumstances.

Probably by refusing isolation period further, watch this space

Reducing? I asked a few days ago did anyone know anyone to test negative with a lateral flow 6/7 days after symptoms start... Still haven't heard of any.

I've no data on that Jog2, i think it's already 7 days with negative lft. Can't see them being able to push past 5 days but the pressure is on.  They seem to be stripping restrictions away daily

Yes, here now (just after Christmas) and England before have a 7 day end of isolation after a negative LFT on days 6 and 7. Very few will test negative that soon. J70, is it have 5s now in some states in the US?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 05, 2022, 10:13:57 PM
Not sure there is much point following the current approach any more.

1. Contact tracing is completely out the window.
2. Lateral flows are essentially useless (given how transmissible Omicron is, something that works anywhere between 50-85% of the time is hopeless)
3. The PCR system doesn't have sufficient capacity to respond to the volume of tests in timely manner.
4. Many people are asymptomatic and don't realise they need to test never mind isolate (exacerbated by point 1)
5. Soon, that many people will have it - who exactly is being protected via isolation of a few individuals carrying it?


Probably need to flip it around.
1. Who are most vulnerable*? [or more likely to end up in ICU]
2. What are their interfaces?
3. Test, test, test those interface points to slow down infection rate to that vulnerable cohort.

*aside from the anti-vax brigade. Just leave them on a gurney outside the back door of the hospital. Turf them onto the ground if the gurney is needed. If the recommendations of medical professionals aren't sufficient for vaccines, why are they deemed sufficient for treatment after contraction?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 05, 2022, 10:24:03 PM
Just to add to your point on contact tracing. A family member got a text from them the other day to say she was a close contact on April 3rd 2021.

Really.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 05, 2022, 10:28:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 05, 2022, 10:24:03 PM
Just to add to your point on contact tracing. A family member got a text from them the other day to say she was a close contact on April 3rd 2021.

Really.

:o ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on January 05, 2022, 10:41:49 PM
Handy way to get off work for  a week.
Tell your boss you've had a positive  LFT...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 05, 2022, 10:57:33 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 05, 2022, 10:13:57 PM
Not sure there is much point following the current approach any more.

1. Contact tracing is completely out the window.
2. Lateral flows are essentially useless (given how transmissible Omicron is, something that works anywhere between 50-85% of the time is hopeless)
3. The PCR system doesn't have sufficient capacity to respond to the volume of tests in timely manner.
4. Many people are asymptomatic and don't realise they need to test never mind isolate (exacerbated by point 1)
5. Soon, that many people will have it - who exactly is being protected via isolation of a few individuals carrying it?


Probably need to flip it around.
1. Who are most vulnerable*? [or more likely to end up in ICU]
2. What are their interfaces?
3. Test, test, test those interface points to slow down infection rate to that vulnerable cohort.

*aside from the anti-vax brigade. Just leave them on a gurney outside the back door of the hospital. Turf them onto the ground if the gurney is needed. If the recommendations of medical professionals aren't sufficient for vaccines, why are they deemed sufficient for treatment after contraction?
what's the difference between an unvaccinated and a vaccinated person with Covid in an icu at the moment  ? Any smoker or drinker should be denied medical care with rationale like that , says it will kill you on the box or bottle but you did it anyway. The Covid obedient only satisfaction is seeing the disobedient punished.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 06, 2022, 05:06:35 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on January 05, 2022, 10:41:49 PM
Handy way to get off work for  a week.
Tell your boss you've had a positive  LFT...

In a limited ICU capacity world with a variant that was more transmissible and more lethal than Delta, some very hard choices would have to be made.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 06, 2022, 05:21:20 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2022, 08:36:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 05, 2022, 08:27:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2022, 08:25:06 PM
Quote from: ONeill on January 05, 2022, 07:24:20 PM
Looks like the squeeze is being put on isolation times and that seems like a natural progression.

The move to using LFTs instead of PCR as proof of Covid could see a few rogue results at opportune times.

Lfts are unreliable, my nephew got negative lfts directly before and after postive Pcr

I know plenty who had lateral which was positive, they did another one and it was positive and eventually went for a PCR, guess what? It was positive, crazy

Ach come on , the point is we all probably know cases like I've pointed out which will lead to cases slipping through more often with today's reduced restrictions.
I think we just need to hope that this Omicron is much less serious. I think govt are gambling on that with the data they already have
Covid is out of control. Luckily Omicron is less lethal than Delta but that has nothing to.do with us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on January 06, 2022, 08:22:11 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 05, 2022, 09:49:13 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 05, 2022, 09:41:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 05, 2022, 05:24:39 PM
Absenteeism at work at 30% since we started back. I heard on news 8k teachers out with covid out of 27k nationwide in Republic which is also around 30%. Expected to get worse so not sure how the country stays open in these circumstances.
Crazy. Really need to stop testing people who aren't sick and get rid of isolating altogether.
30% is very high. Any idea is that workplace transmission or a work party?

There is no work place transmission in those numbers. Its all coming from the Christmas break. It seems if this thing is in a house, everyone in the house goes down. Also, in the data I am looking at it is hard to see that the booster has had any effect in terms of catching it or not catching it. I thought it was high myself but then I saw that 8k teachers in primary school wouldnt be at work today and a quick google tells me there are 27k primary teachers in the 26 counties, so thats around 30% too. My kids go back to school today, 6 teacher school and ALL the teachers are out with COVID, 6 subs in today and tomorrow. Any its going to get worse before it gets better. Not sure how the country can stay open the way we are doing it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on January 06, 2022, 08:25:32 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 05, 2022, 10:13:57 PM
Not sure there is much point following the current approach any more.

1. Contact tracing is completely out the window.
2. Lateral flows are essentially useless (given how transmissible Omicron is, something that works anywhere between 50-85% of the time is hopeless)
3. The PCR system doesn't have sufficient capacity to respond to the volume of tests in timely manner.
4. Many people are asymptomatic and don't realise they need to test never mind isolate (exacerbated by point 1)
5. Soon, that many people will have it - who exactly is being protected via isolation of a few individuals carrying it?


Probably need to flip it around.
1. Who are most vulnerable*? [or more likely to end up in ICU]
2. What are their interfaces?
3. Test, test, test those interface points to slow down infection rate to that vulnerable cohort.

*aside from the anti-vax brigade. Just leave them on a gurney outside the back door of the hospital. Turf them onto the ground if the gurney is needed. If the recommendations of medical professionals aren't sufficient for vaccines, why are they deemed sufficient for treatment after contraction?

Yip I think this is the only way, but politically it is not a nice message to deliver. They could try be honest and explain to people where we are. My bet is they wheel out Nphet in the south to do the dirty work for them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on January 06, 2022, 08:27:11 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on January 05, 2022, 10:41:49 PM
Handy way to get off work for  a week.
Tell your boss you've had a positive  LFT...

Unfortunately that is the case for a minority of people. We cant ask them to even prove they took a test, went for a test or whether it was positive or negative. If you have 3 in your house you could be getting weeks off as a close contact if you time the thing right. There will always be people who manipulate the situation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tyrdub on January 06, 2022, 12:16:30 PM
Tested positive this morning, the 2 girls tested positive yesterday, couldn't have come at a worse time. I have 3 semester exams in the next week, eldest has A-Levels starting on Tuesday.
Only good thing is herself tested negative so we're all getting looked after
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 06, 2022, 12:47:03 PM
I spoke to our local doctor. He said he is seeing rates of 30% positive in testing. Thankfully not that many end up in ICU.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 06, 2022, 02:23:43 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

This part of the MSM agenda, don't fall for the lies.

Now if some social media grifter or blogger calling themselves a journalist, well it would be a game changer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 06, 2022, 02:27:58 PM
A mere 6800 odd cases up north today. Progress?

Hospital, inpatients at least, numbers seemed to be down a bit which is good. 4 deaths  :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 06, 2022, 04:07:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

If hospitalisations are reduced enough and there are no more severe mutations then general transmission will become less of an issue. Hopefully if things continue to trend in the way they have been then isolation periods can be looked at. But we need to understand that while Omricon looks to be milder, it's still affecting the unvaccinated substantially more. So people would still need to be wary in refusing a booster.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 06, 2022, 04:13:03 PM
The big problem is society is going to struggle to be functional at some point with current isolation periods. When that point is is probably looming in the not that distant future.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 06, 2022, 05:57:58 PM
Unvaxxed make up more than half the proportion in ROI ICU, although they are only about 5% of the population.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIb5C7JWUAAQaaK?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 06, 2022, 06:00:56 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIb28ShXoAc30Sb?format=png&name=large)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on January 06, 2022, 06:29:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 06, 2022, 05:57:58 PM
Unvaxxed make up more than half the proportion in ROI ICU, although they are only about 5% of the population.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIb5C7JWUAAQaaK?format=jpg&name=large)

And its reported the majority of Covid patients in ICU currently are infected with Delta rather than Omicron.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on January 06, 2022, 07:01:55 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 06, 2022, 04:07:27 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

If hospitalisations are reduced enough and there are no more severe mutations then general transmission will become less of an issue. Hopefully if things continue to trend in the way they have been then isolation periods can be looked at. But we need to understand that while Omricon looks to be milder, it's still affecting the unvaccinated substantially more. So people would still need to be wary in refusing a booster.
In fact they could do us all a favour by getting the Booster which we are in the privileged position to have access to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 06, 2022, 08:08:58 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-health-service-in-for-rough-two-months-but-should-cope-1.4768791

With early research showing the protection offered by boosters waning after just one month, for example, what role will vaccination play in tackling Covid-19 in the future?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 06, 2022, 08:33:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2022, 08:08:58 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-health-service-in-for-rough-two-months-but-should-cope-1.4768791

With early research showing the protection offered by boosters waning after just one month, for example, what role will vaccination play in tackling Covid-19 in the future?

The Partially vaccinated have invested a lot of trust in governments and the pharmaceutical industry.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 06, 2022, 08:58:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2022, 08:08:58 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-health-service-in-for-rough-two-months-but-should-cope-1.4768791

With early research showing the protection offered by boosters waning after just one month, for example, what role will vaccination play in tackling Covid-19 in the future?

That's protection from getting infected. You still have long lasting T cell protection from serious illness with the booster. That shows the vaccines are doing their job by keeping people out of hospital.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 06, 2022, 09:45:05 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 06, 2022, 08:33:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2022, 08:08:58 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-health-service-in-for-rough-two-months-but-should-cope-1.4768791

With early research showing the protection offered by boosters waning after just one month, for example, what role will vaccination play in tackling Covid-19 in the future?

The Partially vaccinated have invested a lot of trust in governments and the pharmaceutical industry.

Where as you invested time with John on Facebook who mentioned sheeple and big pharma so obviously knows his sh!te. 😂
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 06, 2022, 10:09:23 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 06, 2022, 09:45:05 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 06, 2022, 08:33:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2022, 08:08:58 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-health-service-in-for-rough-two-months-but-should-cope-1.4768791

With early research showing the protection offered by boosters waning after just one month, for example, what role will vaccination play in tackling Covid-19 in the future?

The Partially vaccinated have invested a lot of trust in governments and the pharmaceutical industry.

Where as you invested time with John on Facebook who mentioned sheeple and big pharma so obviously knows his sh!te. 😂

Beat me to it  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 06, 2022, 11:03:16 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 06, 2022, 08:58:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2022, 08:08:58 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-health-service-in-for-rough-two-months-but-should-cope-1.4768791

With early research showing the protection offered by boosters waning after just one month, for example, what role will vaccination play in tackling Covid-19 in the future?

That's protection from getting infected. You still have long lasting T cell protection from serious illness with the booster. That shows the vaccines are doing their job by keeping people out of hospital.
The capacity of Covid to renew and deviate is the biggest challenge. Omicron had about 20 differences compared to Delta which meant vaccines were only 70% effective. This is why boosters were necessary.  We have to clamp down on the variant production process by vaccinating in developing countries.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 06, 2022, 11:43:33 PM
I wonder how many guys got the flu jab on here before covid ever came out. I been getting it for yrs and understand that it reduced the risk of a severe dose of flu, not guarantee I wouldn't get it, which I did once. Covid is a more contingous form of the flu, meaning even if jabbed there still a fair chance of getting it. Vaccination about risk management and trying to reduce the outcome of many elderly or persons in poor health getting Covid. I can't understand the resistant to getting a jab to try help your parents/ grandparents or those at risk. If it was a airborne version of ebola and their was a vaccination against such, they be lining up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 07, 2022, 12:08:17 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 06, 2022, 11:03:16 PM
The capacity of Covid to renew and deviate is the biggest challenge. Omicron had about 20 differences compared to Delta which meant vaccines were only 70% effective. This is why boosters were necessary.  We have to clamp down on the variant production process by vaccinating in developing countries.

This Corbevax, developed in the US funded by philanthropy and made in India, has no patent restriction and can be made throughout the world for $1.50 a pop. This could be a way to get everyone in 2022.
https://www.advancedsciencenews.com/corbevax-vaccine-offers-solution-to-global-vaccine-inequity/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 07, 2022, 05:59:02 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 06, 2022, 05:57:58 PM
Unvaxxed make up more than half the proportion in ROI ICU, although they are only about 5% of the population.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIb5C7JWUAAQaaK?format=jpg&name=large)
Antivax probabilities of contracting Covid are over 10x those of vaccinated. Once infected they are far more likely to end up in ICU.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 07, 2022, 06:06:15 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/johnny-watterson-lateral-flow-of-time-will-expose-djokovic-s-anti-vaxxer-crusade-1.4770513

The US in November reported around 33,000 Covid-19 deaths with estimates that 29,100 of them were among unvaccinated adults.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 08:00:50 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 06, 2022, 11:43:33 PM
I wonder how many guys got the flu jab on here before covid ever came out. I been getting it for yrs and understand that it reduced the risk of a severe dose of flu, not guarantee I wouldn't get it, which I did once. Covid is a more contingous form of the flu, meaning even if jabbed there still a fair chance of getting it. Vaccination about risk management and trying to reduce the outcome of many elderly or persons in poor health getting Covid. I can't understand the resistant to getting a jab to try help your parents/ grandparents or those at risk. If it was a airborne version of ebola and their was a vaccination against such, they be lining up.

No never got the flu jab, son got it some years due to asthma, but I was that unaware  until recently that it was open to everyone. I thought you had to get letter from doctor(like son) to get it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:26:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

Nonsense.  If there was no issue with hospitalisations, there wouldn't be any absenteeism.

Hospitalisations is pretty much the ONLY issue with Omicron.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:26:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

Nonsense.  If there was no issue with hospitalisations, there wouldn't be any absenteeism.

Hospitalisations is pretty much the ONLY issue with Omicron.

This cant be a serious post?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:49:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:26:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

Nonsense.  If there was no issue with hospitalisations, there wouldn't be any absenteeism.

Hospitalisations is pretty much the ONLY issue with Omicron.

This cant be a serious post?

100% serious.

The only reason there is absenteeism is due to the mandatory isolation period when infected/close contact.

The reason there is a mandatory isolation period is to reduce transmission in order to stop hospitals being overwhelmed.

For most, Omicron is a mild head cold and were it not for the need to reduce hospitalisations, most people would be at work with is.

Except for Derry City bluffers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:57:38 AM
To add to that...

IF those figures are correct, being boosted reduces the numbers going to hospital with Omicron by 88%.

So with that, I'd venture that if the everyone had their booster, we would be very close to returning things to normal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on January 07, 2022, 09:00:11 AM
People with omicron should not be in work. 

I think the point that if we get to a stage where we are not worried about hospitalizations and only worried about absenteeism, we'd be in a completely different space. Absenteeism is not unimportant given the potential economic effects it can have, but just not in the same ballpark that we've been in the last 20 months or so.

But at this stage, hospitalizations is still by far the biggest issue. There are less % omicron patients in hospital than delta, but still some are (particularly unvaxxed) and it is far more transmissable. If it was half as likely to result in hospitalizations but twice as transmissable, you wouldn't see much change, but hopefully the figures will turn out to be better than that. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 07, 2022, 09:02:31 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:26:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

Nonsense.  If there was no issue with hospitalisations, there wouldn't be any absenteeism.

Hospitalisations is pretty much the ONLY issue with Omicron.
Doesnt seem to be that many getting sick with omnicron now so I'd say the bigger issue is healthy people/people with a slight cold having to stay off work both in healthcare and across the board thats the issue
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 07, 2022, 09:07:33 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 07, 2022, 09:02:31 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:26:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

Nonsense.  If there was no issue with hospitalisations, there wouldn't be any absenteeism.

Hospitalisations is pretty much the ONLY issue with Omicron.
Doesnt seem to be that many getting sick with omnicron now so I'd say the bigger issue is healthy people/people with a slight cold having to stay off work both in healthcare and across the board thats the issue

And why are they having to stay off work?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 07, 2022, 09:12:33 AM
Record day total but only 90 in ICU. Omicron is the Arsenal of  Covid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 09:20:46 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:49:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:26:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

Nonsense.  If there was no issue with hospitalisations, there wouldn't be any absenteeism.

Hospitalisations is pretty much the ONLY issue with Omicron.

This cant be a serious post?

100% serious.

The only reason there is absenteeism is due to the mandatory isolation period when infected/close contact.

The reason there is a mandatory isolation period is to reduce transmission in order to stop hospitals being overwhelmed.

For most, Omicron is a mild head cold and were it not for the need to reduce hospitalisations, most people would be at work with is.

Except for Derry City bluffers.

Really?
BTW you have  talked yourself into a corner there. Get your booster, I have no issue with that at all. I wont be getting mines at the minute because I don't feel the need based on all the facts that have been presented to me. I don't get angsty about it and totally agree that it is a very good thing for certain people. I imagine we will need an annual vaccination and I am prepared to wait for that again.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 07, 2022, 09:40:02 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 09:20:46 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:49:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:26:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

Nonsense.  If there was no issue with hospitalisations, there wouldn't be any absenteeism.

Hospitalisations is pretty much the ONLY issue with Omicron.

This cant be a serious post?

100% serious.

The only reason there is absenteeism is due to the mandatory isolation period when infected/close contact.

The reason there is a mandatory isolation period is to reduce transmission in order to stop hospitals being overwhelmed.

For most, Omicron is a mild head cold and were it not for the need to reduce hospitalisations, most people would be at work with is.

Except for Derry City bluffers.

Really?
BTW you have  talked yourself into a corner there. Get your booster, I have no issue with that at all. I wont be getting mines at the minute because I don't feel the need based on all the facts that have been presented to me. I don't get angsty about it and totally agree that it is a very good thing for certain people. I imagine we will need an annual vaccination and I am prepared to wait for that again.

Bluffer City

Fear, this was posted a couple of pages back

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

Hospitals are running at well over 100% capacity atm with hundreds awaiting admission for various ailments. It's a no brainer. Individual v the collective.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 10:12:01 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 07, 2022, 09:40:02 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 09:20:46 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:49:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:26:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

Nonsense.  If there was no issue with hospitalisations, there wouldn't be any absenteeism.

Hospitalisations is pretty much the ONLY issue with Omicron.

This cant be a serious post?

100% serious.

The only reason there is absenteeism is due to the mandatory isolation period when infected/close contact.

The reason there is a mandatory isolation period is to reduce transmission in order to stop hospitals being overwhelmed.

For most, Omicron is a mild head cold and were it not for the need to reduce hospitalisations, most people would be at work with is.

Except for Derry City bluffers.

Really?
BTW you have  talked yourself into a corner there. Get your booster, I have no issue with that at all. I wont be getting mines at the minute because I don't feel the need based on all the facts that have been presented to me. I don't get angsty about it and totally agree that it is a very good thing for certain people. I imagine we will need an annual vaccination and I am prepared to wait for that again.

Bluffer City

Fear, this was posted a couple of pages back

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

Hospitals are running at well over 100% capacity atm with hundreds awaiting admission for various ailments. It's a no brainer. Individual v the collective.

Thanks JOG2, a man that i do listen do tbh, lol ease off on that bluffer stuff for jesus sake though,pick on Strabane or something
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 07, 2022, 10:14:22 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 10:12:01 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 07, 2022, 09:40:02 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 09:20:46 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:49:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:26:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

Nonsense.  If there was no issue with hospitalisations, there wouldn't be any absenteeism.

Hospitalisations is pretty much the ONLY issue with Omicron.

This cant be a serious post?

100% serious.

The only reason there is absenteeism is due to the mandatory isolation period when infected/close contact.

The reason there is a mandatory isolation period is to reduce transmission in order to stop hospitals being overwhelmed.

For most, Omicron is a mild head cold and were it not for the need to reduce hospitalisations, most people would be at work with is.

Except for Derry City bluffers.

Really?
BTW you have  talked yourself into a corner there. Get your booster, I have no issue with that at all. I wont be getting mines at the minute because I don't feel the need based on all the facts that have been presented to me. I don't get angsty about it and totally agree that it is a very good thing for certain people. I imagine we will need an annual vaccination and I am prepared to wait for that again.

Bluffer City

Fear, this was posted a couple of pages back

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

Hospitals are running at well over 100% capacity atm with hundreds awaiting admission for various ailments. It's a no brainer. Individual v the collective.

Thanks JOG2, a man that i do listen do tbh, lol ease off on that bluffer stuff for jesus sake though,pick on Strabane or something

;D You hear about the Strabane man who got 2 dole cheques?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 10:16:23 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 07, 2022, 10:14:22 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 10:12:01 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 07, 2022, 09:40:02 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 09:20:46 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:49:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:26:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

Nonsense.  If there was no issue with hospitalisations, there wouldn't be any absenteeism.

Hospitalisations is pretty much the ONLY issue with Omicron.

This cant be a serious post?

100% serious.

The only reason there is absenteeism is due to the mandatory isolation period when infected/close contact.

The reason there is a mandatory isolation period is to reduce transmission in order to stop hospitals being overwhelmed.

For most, Omicron is a mild head cold and were it not for the need to reduce hospitalisations, most people would be at work with is.

Except for Derry City bluffers.

Really?
BTW you have  talked yourself into a corner there. Get your booster, I have no issue with that at all. I wont be getting mines at the minute because I don't feel the need based on all the facts that have been presented to me. I don't get angsty about it and totally agree that it is a very good thing for certain people. I imagine we will need an annual vaccination and I am prepared to wait for that again.

Bluffer City

Fear, this was posted a couple of pages back

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

Hospitals are running at well over 100% capacity atm with hundreds awaiting admission for various ailments. It's a no brainer. Individual v the collective.

Thanks JOG2, a man that i do listen do tbh, lol ease off on that bluffer stuff for jesus sake though,pick on Strabane or something

;D You hear about the Strabane man who got 2 dole cheques?

Lol. I do miss JED in the Derry Journal, I think it finished at Strabane joke 20,182 in the end up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 07, 2022, 10:23:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 09:20:46 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:49:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:26:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

Nonsense.  If there was no issue with hospitalisations, there wouldn't be any absenteeism.

Hospitalisations is pretty much the ONLY issue with Omicron.

This cant be a serious post?

100% serious.

The only reason there is absenteeism is due to the mandatory isolation period when infected/close contact.

The reason there is a mandatory isolation period is to reduce transmission in order to stop hospitals being overwhelmed.

For most, Omicron is a mild head cold and were it not for the need to reduce hospitalisations, most people would be at work with is.

Except for Derry City bluffers.

Really?
BTW you have  talked yourself into a corner there. Get your booster, I have no issue with that at all. I wont be getting mines at the minute because I don't feel the need based on all the facts that have been presented to me. I don't get angsty about it and totally agree that it is a very good thing for certain people. I imagine we will need an annual vaccination and I am prepared to wait for that again.

Yep, really.  Whilst Derry does suffer from lack of infrastructure/investment, the biggest impediment to the city being economically successful is the attitude of the people.

Bit in bold - emm - no I haven't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 07, 2022, 10:39:01 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 09:07:33 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 07, 2022, 09:02:31 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:26:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

Nonsense.  If there was no issue with hospitalisations, there wouldn't be any absenteeism.

Hospitalisations is pretty much the ONLY issue with Omicron.
Doesnt seem to be that many getting sick with omnicron now so I'd say the bigger issue is healthy people/people with a slight cold having to stay off work both in healthcare and across the board thats the issue

And why are they having to stay off work?
See years ago if you got a runny nose you'd take lemsip and go to work.....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2022, 10:49:58 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 07, 2022, 10:39:01 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 09:07:33 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 07, 2022, 09:02:31 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:26:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

Nonsense.  If there was no issue with hospitalisations, there wouldn't be any absenteeism.

Hospitalisations is pretty much the ONLY issue with Omicron.
Doesnt seem to be that many getting sick with omnicron now so I'd say the bigger issue is healthy people/people with a slight cold having to stay off work both in healthcare and across the board thats the issue

And why are they having to stay off work?
See years ago if you got a runny nose you'd take lemsip and go to work.....

Not if you worked in the public sector  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 11:26:50 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 10:23:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 09:20:46 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:49:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:26:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

Nonsense.  If there was no issue with hospitalisations, there wouldn't be any absenteeism.

Hospitalisations is pretty much the ONLY issue with Omicron.

This cant be a serious post?

100% serious.

The only reason there is absenteeism is due to the mandatory isolation period when infected/close contact.

The reason there is a mandatory isolation period is to reduce transmission in order to stop hospitals being overwhelmed.

For most, Omicron is a mild head cold and were it not for the need to reduce hospitalisations, most people would be at work with is.

Except for Derry City bluffers.

Really?
BTW you have  talked yourself into a corner there. Get your booster, I have no issue with that at all. I wont be getting mines at the minute because I don't feel the need based on all the facts that have been presented to me. I don't get angsty about it and totally agree that it is a very good thing for certain people. I imagine we will need an annual vaccination and I am prepared to wait for that again.

Yep, really.  Whilst Derry does suffer from lack of infrastructure/investment, the biggest impediment to the city being economically successful is the attitude of the people.

Bit in bold - emm - no I haven't.

Now you know nothing about the people of Derry or our work ethic and to say we suffer from lack of investment must be biggest understatement of the the century.

What bastion of industrial excellence do you hail from yourself, maybe we could get you up to do Ted Talks or school engagement programmes-that's if you have time because I am sure you are really busy with such intellectual insight
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 07, 2022, 12:10:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 11:26:50 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 10:23:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 09:20:46 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:49:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:26:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

Nonsense.  If there was no issue with hospitalisations, there wouldn't be any absenteeism.

Hospitalisations is pretty much the ONLY issue with Omicron.

This cant be a serious post?

100% serious.

The only reason there is absenteeism is due to the mandatory isolation period when infected/close contact.

The reason there is a mandatory isolation period is to reduce transmission in order to stop hospitals being overwhelmed.

For most, Omicron is a mild head cold and were it not for the need to reduce hospitalisations, most people would be at work with is.

Except for Derry City bluffers.

Really?
BTW you have  talked yourself into a corner there. Get your booster, I have no issue with that at all. I wont be getting mines at the minute because I don't feel the need based on all the facts that have been presented to me. I don't get angsty about it and totally agree that it is a very good thing for certain people. I imagine we will need an annual vaccination and I am prepared to wait for that again.

Yep, really.  Whilst Derry does suffer from lack of infrastructure/investment, the biggest impediment to the city being economically successful is the attitude of the people.

Bit in bold - emm - no I haven't.

Now you know nothing about the people of Derry or our work ethic and to say we suffer from lack of investment must be biggest understatement of the the century.

What bastion of industrial excellence do you hail from yourself, maybe we could get you up to do Ted Talks or school engagement programmes-that's if you have time because I am sure you are really busy with such intellectual insight

Waste of time.  It's bred in.  Will take a couple of generations to fix.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 12:27:25 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 12:10:30 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 11:26:50 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 10:23:56 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 09:20:46 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:49:16 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 08:28:54 AM
Quote from: Franko on January 07, 2022, 08:26:05 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 06, 2022, 01:32:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 01, 2022, 10:38:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 01, 2022, 09:30:30 PM
Why bother getting one vaccine or even two? The booster isn't going to produce another head!

Because the  double vaccine clearly at this stage has worked against a seemingly more dangerous variant. Omicron doesn't seem as serious but that may change.
The booster doesn't seem to be needed if we look at the early data to keep you out of hospital. Nobody in their right mind would just take a vaccine just fir the sake of it.  If things change I'll get it. But for now I'm happy with 2jabs and immunity from my last infection.
Think that's reasonable and sensible. I'm very aware of pressure on NHS staff as priority atm.

Change things any?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59840524

It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

Nonsense.  If there was no issue with hospitalisations, there wouldn't be any absenteeism.

Hospitalisations is pretty much the ONLY issue with Omicron.

This cant be a serious post?

100% serious.

The only reason there is absenteeism is due to the mandatory isolation period when infected/close contact.

The reason there is a mandatory isolation period is to reduce transmission in order to stop hospitals being overwhelmed.

For most, Omicron is a mild head cold and were it not for the need to reduce hospitalisations, most people would be at work with is.

Except for Derry City bluffers.

Really?
BTW you have  talked yourself into a corner there. Get your booster, I have no issue with that at all. I wont be getting mines at the minute because I don't feel the need based on all the facts that have been presented to me. I don't get angsty about it and totally agree that it is a very good thing for certain people. I imagine we will need an annual vaccination and I am prepared to wait for that again.

Yep, really.  Whilst Derry does suffer from lack of infrastructure/investment, the biggest impediment to the city being economically successful is the attitude of the people.

Bit in bold - emm - no I haven't.

Now you know nothing about the people of Derry or our work ethic and to say we suffer from lack of investment must be biggest understatement of the the century.

What bastion of industrial excellence do you hail from yourself, maybe we could get you up to do Ted Talks or school engagement programmes-that's if you have time because I am sure you are really busy with such intellectual insight

Waste of time.  It's bred in.  Will take a couple of generations to fix.

Bit like your stupidity
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 07, 2022, 12:54:03 PM
Lol.  Deep  ;D

Don't get me wrong.  There are exceptions

And the people of Derry in the main are kind and good natured.

But there's fcuk all work in them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Man Marker on January 07, 2022, 01:03:18 PM
Got this sent to me via whatsapp, found it massively interesting. A freedom of information request re covid. Forget about the twitter posters opinion, read the attached letter response

https://twitter.com/steviatherton/status/1460716161822248967?s=24 (https://twitter.com/steviatherton/status/1460716161822248967?s=24)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 07, 2022, 01:11:15 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on January 07, 2022, 01:03:18 PM
Got this sent to me via whatsapp, found it massively interesting. A freedom of information request re covid. Forget about the twitter posters opinion, read the attached letter response

https://twitter.com/steviatherton/status/1460716161822248967?s=24 (https://twitter.com/steviatherton/status/1460716161822248967?s=24)

I read it. Unsure of what the point is to be honest. Out of 2817 deaths 2547 had covid as underlying cause. Is there something else I've missed?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Man Marker on January 07, 2022, 01:27:23 PM
Yes, read that to, the info I found most interesting was 165 dead from covid only, all other deaths had accompanying morbidities.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 07, 2022, 01:48:50 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on January 07, 2022, 01:27:23 PM
Yes, read that to, the info I found most interesting was 165 dead from covid only, all other deaths had accompanying morbidities.

I think you need to look into how that compares to other deaths from viruses to give it context or how common it is to have multiple reasons Vs only on reason noted on the cert.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 07, 2022, 02:02:46 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on January 07, 2022, 01:27:23 PM
Yes, read that to, the info I found most interesting was 165 dead from covid only, all other deaths had accompanying morbidities.

I'm amazed at this stage you found that interesting tbh.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 07, 2022, 02:19:06 PM
Cases a bit down in the north today(6,400 odd), no deaths and a good few less in hospital which is all good news. Hopefully that continues.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Man Marker on January 07, 2022, 02:30:17 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 07, 2022, 02:02:46 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on January 07, 2022, 01:27:23 PM
Yes, read that to, the info I found most interesting was 165 dead from covid only, all other deaths had accompanying morbidities.

I'm amazed at this stage you found that interesting tbh.

why?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 07, 2022, 02:35:53 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on January 07, 2022, 02:30:17 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 07, 2022, 02:02:46 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on January 07, 2022, 01:27:23 PM
Yes, read that to, the info I found most interesting was 165 dead from covid only, all other deaths had accompanying morbidities.

I'm amazed at this stage you found that interesting tbh.

why?

Where you not aware Covid affects the vulnerable more than others?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Man Marker on January 07, 2022, 02:40:46 PM
Yes, thats not what surprised me, it was the 165 number that did.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 07, 2022, 02:47:01 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on January 07, 2022, 02:40:46 PM
Yes, thats not what surprised me, it was the 165 number that did.

In what way?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on January 07, 2022, 03:13:04 PM
Can someone explain the Omicron is milder for me point please. What I mean is if you were likely to be hospitalised or die from delta are you less likely to die from Omicron. Or is it that less people who get it are likely to be hospitalised. If it's the former how is that established?

Take the following example.

If you had 100 people on a cruise ship such that there was cross contacts between everyone.

If it was delta and 5 people died, 10 were hospitalised and 10 were infected but needed no treatment. The remaining 75 not getting infected. Then the rate of those infected would be 20% (5 out of 25) and hospitalisations 40%. Etc.

If Omicron though would have given you the following results

10 deaths 20 hospitalised 45 infected but no treatment required then your death rate would be 13.3% (10 out of 75) 26% hospitalised etc.

So the virus would appear milder killing lesser percentage of those it infects but disproportionately infecting more people.

My concern is we say this is milder but absolute death and hospitalisation numbers don't seem to be falling which makes me concerned that it's actually just infecting more people who weren't particularly at risk before.  Of course it could be that Omicron is less likely to kill than Delta would have been but I've seen nothing on how that's established.

If this isn't too waffling.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 07, 2022, 03:29:45 PM
Omicron infects more people, but a smaller proportion of them go to hospital and if they do they tend not to stay as long or go on to ICU. However, because Omicron infects more people it still puts hospitals under pressure.
They think that Omicron is more effective in the nose and throat, which makes it more transmissible, but not as effective in the lungs etc, which is what kills you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 07, 2022, 03:49:58 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 07, 2022, 03:29:45 PM
Omicron infects more people, but a smaller proportion of them go to hospital and if they do they tend not to stay as long or go on to ICU. However, because Omicron infects more people it still puts hospitals under pressure.
They think that Omicron is more effective in the nose and throat, which makes it more transmissible, but not as effective in the lungs etc, which is what kills you.

I remember reading something early in the pandemic which basically illustrated that you may be better with something less transmissible but more lethal.  Due to the fact that transmission grows exponentially but lethality exhibits linear growth.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 07, 2022, 04:03:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

As others have pointed out.

Hospital care due to omicron is the ONLY issue in town right now.

But your not wrong as there are two sides to that - obviously how many patients are entering the doors with it - and how many staff are having to stay off because they have it.

If the thick cnuts took their jabs, pressure on critical care would roughly half. That doesn't help staffing numbers - not sure there is much can be done at that end of things to be honest as I don't see a palatable* approach to slowing the spread sufficiently in the general public right now...

*Anyone up for more school closures?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on January 07, 2022, 04:09:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 07, 2022, 03:29:45 PM
Omicron infects more people, but a smaller proportion of them go to hospital and if they do they tend not to stay as long or go on to ICU. However, because Omicron infects more people it still puts hospitals under pressure.
They think that Omicron is more effective in the nose and throat, which makes it more transmissible, but not as effective in the lungs etc, which is what kills you.

I just don't understand if it's said to be milder because it's less likely to leave someone it infects (chosen at random from amongst those effected) needing treatment or dying. Or if it's said to be milder because the risk to a specific individual is lower. Ie delta would have killed them but Omicron wouldn't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 07, 2022, 04:22:27 PM
Milder ultimately means you are less likely be seriously sick or die. Those are the key metrics of any virus regardless of how transmissible it may be.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 07, 2022, 04:28:10 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on January 07, 2022, 04:09:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 07, 2022, 03:29:45 PM
Omicron infects more people, but a smaller proportion of them go to hospital and if they do they tend not to stay as long or go on to ICU. However, because Omicron infects more people it still puts hospitals under pressure.
They think that Omicron is more effective in the nose and throat, which makes it more transmissible, but not as effective in the lungs etc, which is what kills you.

I just don't understand if it's said to be milder because it's less likely to leave someone it infects (chosen at random from amongst those effected) needing treatment or dying. Or if it's said to be milder because the risk to a specific individual is lower. Ie delta would have killed them but Omicron wouldn't.

The risk to an individual is lower. The aggregate effect might not be so different owing to more people getting it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 07, 2022, 04:28:17 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 07, 2022, 04:03:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

As others have pointed out.

Hospital care due to omicron is the ONLY issue in town right now.

But your not wrong as there are two sides to that - obviously how many patients are entering the doors with it - and how many staff are having to stay off because they have it.

If the thick cnuts took their jabs, pressure on critical care would roughly half. That doesn't help staffing numbers - not sure there is much can be done at that end of things to be honest as I don't see a palatable* approach to slowing the spread sufficiently in the general public right now...

*Anyone up for more school closures?
Realistically vaccination is 90%+ last I saw. You couldnt ask for much more
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 07, 2022, 05:22:02 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 07, 2022, 04:28:17 PM
Realistically vaccination is 90%+ last I saw. You couldnt ask for much more

When around half of ICU covid patients are the stupid fcukers that comprise the ~5% - yes I could.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 07, 2022, 05:30:40 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 07, 2022, 05:22:02 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 07, 2022, 04:28:17 PM
Realistically vaccination is 90%+ last I saw. You couldnt ask for much more

When around half of ICU covid patients are the stupid fcukers that comprise the ~5% - yes I could.
+1.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 06:07:58 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 07, 2022, 04:28:17 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 07, 2022, 04:03:50 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 06, 2022, 03:35:18 PM
It's a positive (excuse the pun), but hospitalisations from omricon isn't main issue, it's general transmission and subsequent absenteeism and booster doesn't seem to be stopping that at all.

As others have pointed out.

Hospital care due to omicron is the ONLY issue in town right now.

But your not wrong as there are two sides to that - obviously how many patients are entering the doors with it - and how many staff are having to stay off because they have it.

If the thick cnuts took their jabs, pressure on critical care would roughly half. That doesn't help staffing numbers - not sure there is much can be done at that end of things to be honest as I don't see a palatable* approach to slowing the spread sufficiently in the general public right now...

*Anyone up for more school closures?
Realistically vaccination is 90%+ last I saw. You couldnt ask for much more

Remember the heady days of 70 percent vaccnated for herd immunity.
Ah well
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 07, 2022, 06:14:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 06:07:58 PM
Remember the heady days of 70 percent vaccinated for herd immunity.
Ah well

Yeah, the two shots to freedom (or the one shot with Jansen (or Johnson & Johnson as it was known in Norway)).

Great memories.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 07, 2022, 06:19:06 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 07, 2022, 06:14:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 06:07:58 PM
Remember the heady days of 70 percent vaccinated for herd immunity.
Ah well

Yeah, the two shots to freedom (or the one shot with Jansen (or Johnson & Johnson as it was known in Norway)).

Great memories.

We'll be onto our 4th shot soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2022, 06:24:16 PM
Well, when much of the world, including some western countries, are nowhere near 70% vaccinated, the virus will continue to evolve and evade, infection-wise, existing vaccinations.

Countries are not closed systems.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 06:25:05 PM
Seriously though , what happened there, is it because the vaccinations don't stop transmission?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2022, 06:24:16 PM
Well, when much of the world, including some western countries, are nowhere near 70% vaccinated, the virus will continue to evolve and evade, infection-wise, existing vaccinations.

Countries are not closed systems.

Doesn't make sense sorry, don't mean to sound rude .If you have 90 percent vaccinated with a few visitors it shouldn't affect overall national immunity, the govt never mentioned worldwide percentages at the start. Happy to be corrected though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 07, 2022, 06:43:01 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2022, 06:24:16 PM
Well, when much of the world, including some western countries, are nowhere near 70% vaccinated, the virus will continue to evolve and evade, infection-wise, existing vaccinations.

Countries are not closed systems.

Doesn't make sense sorry, don't mean to sound rude .If you have 90 percent vaccinated with a few visitors it shouldn't affect overall national immunity, the govt never mentioned worldwide percentages at the start. Happy to be corrected though.

I'd guess the other  'Elephant in the room' is the fact that as a zoonotic disease the covid 19 virus will always have a natural animal reservoir.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2022, 06:55:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2022, 06:24:16 PM
Well, when much of the world, including some western countries, are nowhere near 70% vaccinated, the virus will continue to evolve and evade, infection-wise, existing vaccinations.

Countries are not closed systems.

Doesn't make sense sorry, don't mean to sound rude .If you have 90 percent vaccinated with a few visitors it shouldn't affect overall national immunity, the govt never mentioned worldwide percentages at the start. Happy to be corrected though.

I've no idea what the Irish government told you. I don't live there.

I'm merely pointing out why 90% vaccinations in Ireland may not have put a lid on the covid outbreak in the country.

Especially with increasingly transmissible variants popping up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 07, 2022, 06:57:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2022, 06:24:16 PM
Well, when much of the world, including some western countries, are nowhere near 70% vaccinated, the virus will continue to evolve and evade, infection-wise, existing vaccinations.

Unfortunately, the vaccines aren't going to stop it evolving. They'll reduce likelihood of it happening in humans as vaccine prepared immune systems will shut it down quicker.

But, with it being present in animals, its always going to find some corner to hide in.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 07, 2022, 06:58:24 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 06:07:58 PM
Remember the heady days of 70 percent vaccnated for herd immunity.
Ah well

Based on the infectiousness of the original version.

Don't let that little detail get in the way of a good soundbite though  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 07, 2022, 07:58:35 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 07, 2022, 06:58:24 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 06:07:58 PM
Remember the heady days of 70 percent vaccnated for herd immunity.
Ah well

Based on the infectiousness of the original version.

Don't let that little detail get in the way of a good soundbite though  ;)

What about letting it rip natural herd immunity? Maybe that is still an option  ???
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 07, 2022, 08:06:39 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 07, 2022, 07:58:35 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 07, 2022, 06:58:24 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 06:07:58 PM
Remember the heady days of 70 percent vaccnated for herd immunity.
Ah well

Based on the infectiousness of the original version.

Don't let that little detail get in the way of a good soundbite though  ;)

What about letting it rip natural herd immunity? Maybe that is still an option  ???

Infection doesn't give you permanent immunity any more than vaccination, Keir Starmer has had Covid twice in the last 6 months.
But it does give people long Covid and kills a few people along the way.
The Omicron is ripping in some sections already, if only Omicron stays around then that might reduce things greatly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 07, 2022, 09:28:16 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 07, 2022, 07:58:35 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 07, 2022, 06:58:24 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 07, 2022, 06:07:58 PM
Remember the heady days of 70 percent vaccnated for herd immunity.
Ah well

Based on the infectiousness of the original version.

Don't let that little detail get in the way of a good soundbite though  ;)

What about letting it rip natural herd immunity? Maybe that is still an option  ???
Ironically that looks like whats gonna happen
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 07, 2022, 09:41:54 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 07, 2022, 07:58:35 PM
What about letting it rip natural herd immunity? Maybe that is still an option  ???

That is what is happening right now and there is no choice in the matter! **If** the numbers I see are reflective of wider community, apart from a few outliers, we'll all have it by end of this month.

Thankfully the version its happening with, and the largely vaccinated population, are reducing hospitalisations to a (so far) manageable number.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: quit yo jibbajabba on January 07, 2022, 09:57:13 PM
GaaGaa as a voice of reason on here whats your outlook overall now. Cautiously optimistic or have we a bit to go yet...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: NotedObserver on January 07, 2022, 10:13:35 PM
When will vax passports be done away with?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 07, 2022, 10:40:30 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on January 07, 2022, 10:13:35 PM
When will vax passports be done away with?
Be a long while yet if ever i'd say.... Bigger question is when will 2 jabs be considered not vaccinated..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 07, 2022, 10:51:32 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 07, 2022, 10:40:30 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on January 07, 2022, 10:13:35 PM
When will vax passports be done away with?
Be a long while yet if ever i'd say.... Bigger question is when will 2 jabs be considered not vaccinated..

Anyone with only 2 jabs or less be considered not vaccinated in February and there will be a plethora of new restrictions for them! Europe has a grand plan for all of us.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 07, 2022, 10:52:15 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 07, 2022, 10:40:30 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on January 07, 2022, 10:13:35 PM
When will vax passports be done away with?
Be a long while yet if ever i'd say.... Bigger question is when will 2 jabs be considered not vaccinated..

Would the 2020 Flu jab cover you for the 2021 Flu? You have to be taking the hand with the majority of your posts re Covid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 07, 2022, 11:37:13 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 07, 2022, 10:40:30 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on January 07, 2022, 10:13:35 PM
When will vax passports be done away with?
Be a long while yet if ever i'd say.... Bigger question is when will 2 jabs be considered not vaccinated..

For travel the EU will only accept 2 jabs for 9 months. I got my updated certificate today. Not sure what will happen with hospitality, they may discontinue it coming into the summer when the cases die down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 08, 2022, 01:40:57 AM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on January 07, 2022, 09:57:13 PM
GaaGaa as a voice of reason on here whats your outlook overall now. Cautiously optimistic or have we a bit to go yet...
the voice of reason ? Dumping unvaccinated patients out the back of the hospital is reasonable?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on January 08, 2022, 10:44:03 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 07, 2022, 04:28:10 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on January 07, 2022, 04:09:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 07, 2022, 03:29:45 PM
Omicron infects more people, but a smaller proportion of them go to hospital and if they do they tend not to stay as long or go on to ICU. However, because Omicron infects more people it still puts hospitals under pressure.
They think that Omicron is more effective in the nose and throat, which makes it more transmissible, but not as effective in the lungs etc, which is what kills you.

I just don't understand if it's said to be milder because it's less likely to leave someone it infects (chosen at random from amongst those effected) needing treatment or dying. Or if it's said to be milder because the risk to a specific individual is lower. Ie delta would have killed them but Omicron wouldn't.


The risk to an individual is lower. The aggregate effect might not be so different owing to more people getting it.

Well theres obvious benefits to that and I am not disputing what you are saying but where does the evidence for that come from.  I havent been able to find anything peer reviewed on that.  Everything I have seen says less people who get it are hospitalised or killed but thats obviously not the same thing if its more infectious.

I also note this from the other day.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-59901547

My concern is that all this talk of it being milder leads to a carte blanche attitude form those most at risk and therefore the benefits of a supposedly milder disease are contradicted by human behaviour.  As I say I trust and hope you are correct I just havent seen research on that point
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 08, 2022, 12:13:39 PM
I've a close relative in the infectious diseases field, and they say that nasal swabbing is proving inadequate when it comes to testing for Omicron.

Throat swabbing may start to be incorporated for rapid tests as its more likely to detect it early on. Apparently Omicron affects the throat and renders the patient infectious a couple of days before it moves to the nose.

Not sure what that will mean for home testing though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 08, 2022, 12:18:32 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on January 07, 2022, 09:57:13 PM
GaaGaa as a voice of reason on here whats your outlook overall now. Cautiously optimistic or have we a bit to go yet...

Within the UK - I think it might be all over by Easter.

ROI will be slower, no strong thoughts on it.

International travel is entirely another matter of course and even harder to predict.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 08, 2022, 12:20:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 08, 2022, 01:40:57 AM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on January 07, 2022, 09:57:13 PM
GaaGaa as a voice of reason on here whats your outlook overall now. Cautiously optimistic or have we a bit to go yet...
the voice of reason ? Dumping unvaccinated patients out the back of the hospital is reasonable?

Letting cancer patients miss out on time-critical treatment because of the stupidity of others is reasonable?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 08, 2022, 12:24:20 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on January 08, 2022, 10:44:03 AM
I also note this from the other day.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-59901547


QuoteRecent studies suggest that Omicron is less likely to make people seriously ill than previous Covid variants.

But the record number of people catching it has left health systems under severe pressure, said WHO chief Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus.

Does that not explain it for you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 08, 2022, 12:40:09 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 08, 2022, 12:20:28 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 08, 2022, 01:40:57 AM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on January 07, 2022, 09:57:13 PM
GaaGaa as a voice of reason on here whats your outlook overall now. Cautiously optimistic or have we a bit to go yet...
the voice of reason ? Dumping unvaccinated patients out the back of the hospital is reasonable?

Letting cancer patients miss out on time-critical treatment because of the stupidity of others is reasonable?

Wasn't that long ago that cancer patients missing out on treatment due to Covid was front and centre in the anti-brigades thoughts and prayers. They were extremely passionate and vocal on this subject. Compassion evaporated??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 08, 2022, 12:42:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 08, 2022, 12:18:32 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on January 07, 2022, 09:57:13 PM
GaaGaa as a voice of reason on here whats your outlook overall now. Cautiously optimistic or have we a bit to go yet...

Within the UK - I think it might be all over by Easter.

ROI will be slower, no strong thoughts on it.

International travel is entirely another matter of course and even harder to predict.

when you say "all over" what do you mean? an end to the requirements to have restrictions? an end to pressure on our healthcare systems? am end for the need for testing? an end to taking any other action than we do for other viruses?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 08, 2022, 02:00:29 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 08, 2022, 12:40:09 PM
Wasn't that long ago that cancer patients missing out on treatment due to Covid was front and centre in the anti-brigades thoughts and prayers. They were extremely passionate and vocal on this subject. Compassion evaporated??

The reference to cancer patients was one of the most disgusting aspects of these anti vax anti lockdown crowd. The pretended to be worried about such people while actually opposing things that would reduce the spread of COvid, which was a direct threat to people receiving cancer treatment and was crowding cancer patients out of hospitals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on January 08, 2022, 02:59:42 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 08, 2022, 12:24:20 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on January 08, 2022, 10:44:03 AM
I also note this from the other day.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-59901547


QuoteRecent studies suggest that Omicron is less likely to make people seriously ill than previous Covid variants.

But the record number of people catching it has left health systems under severe pressure, said WHO chief Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus.

Does that not explain it for you?

No because I can't find the data to support that. I can find data to say of the people infected fewer are likely to end up hospitalised or needing ICU but that's not the same thing. What I mean is what I've seen is say Joe Bloggs gets Delta along with 49 others in a town but is the only one to die. His chances of dying if infected on a basic statistical reading were 2%. If however say the same Joe Bloggs got Omicron along with 99 others but was the only one to die then his chances were 1%. In that regard it looks like Omicron is only half as deadly.

However in reality it's exactly as deadly to Joe Bloggs it's only half as deadly to a random infected person. The reason for this being that Omicron is now infecting people who are low to no risk that Delta wouldn't have infected.

My worry is that we are being told it's milder because it statistically is to those who were unlikely to die or be hospitalised by delta anyway. However it remains very concerning for high risk individuals.

I should say I'm not suggesting such data doesn't exist just that I haven't seen it yet
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rois on January 08, 2022, 04:19:35 PM
But how would you confirm this? You can't test dead people to see if they wouldn't have died if they'd had omicron. There's no measure (I don't think anyway) to say that once people reach a certain level of sickness, once they are a certain age, weight or or have a certain inherent weakness, they are going die whatever the variant.
In your example, maybe Joe is very weak and would die whatever attacked him. But only Joe - and that's the point of the statistical analysis - Joe hasn't been joined by anyone else, and likely would have  been with the delta variant. Hence, I don't think it is unreasonable to say that the variant is less deadly, unless you discount statistical analysis altogether.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on January 08, 2022, 06:44:11 PM
Quote from: Rois on January 08, 2022, 04:19:35 PM
But how would you confirm this? You can't test dead people to see if they wouldn't have died if they'd had omicron. There's no measure (I don't think anyway) to say that once people reach a certain level of sickness, once they are a certain age, weight or or have a certain inherent weakness, they are going die whatever the variant.
In your example, maybe Joe is very weak and would die whatever attacked him. But only Joe - and that's the point of the statistical analysis - Joe hasn't been joined by anyone else, and likely would have  been with the delta variant. Hence, I don't think it is unreasonable to say that the variant is less deadly, unless you discount statistical analysis altogether.

Rois. I think you've explained my point better than I have there. Is there a way to really tell if it's milder, I'm not an expert so I have no idea. If not my concern is that all the talk about this milder variant may not actually be that good a thing. Particularly if it encourages those most at risk to adopt a more cavalier attitude of well sure this new one is less likely to kill me so who cares if I get it.

That's my major concern about Omicron.

That said I am hoping that I am wrong and there is some way of telling and that data exists to support that and that I just haven't seen it or haven't understood it properly yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on January 08, 2022, 07:08:26 PM
David, there's a very good Eamon Dunphy / Last Stand podcast with Tomas Ryan which goes through your questions.

My recollection is as follows:
- Omicron is only marginally less dangerous than Delta for the unvaccinated (maybe 10% less in terms of hospitalizations I think he said)
- omicron is probably no more contagious than Delta, but it's much better at breaking through antibody protection, so is much more transmissable overall
- While omicron can easily infect the vaccinated, it struggles to make them sick. Big difference in hospitalization rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated who contract omicron.
- where hospitalization is required for a vaccinated person, the length of stay is less than with the delta
- not confirmed totally at this stage, but very strong indications that far less likely to require intensive care from omicron - probably because it does not attack the lungs the way delta does
-there is a risk, based on South African figures and early UK figures, that Omicron impacts kids worse than delta. Too early to say for sure but something to be monitored.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on January 08, 2022, 09:00:21 PM
Quote from: Hound on January 08, 2022, 07:08:26 PM
David, there's a very good Eamon Dunphy / Last Stand podcast with Tomas Ryan which goes through your questions.

My recollection is as follows:
- Omicron is only marginally less dangerous than Delta for the unvaccinated (maybe 10% less in terms of hospitalizations I think he said)
- omicron is probably no more contagious than Delta, but it's much better at breaking through antibody protection, so is much more transmissable overall
- While omicron can easily infect the vaccinated, it struggles to make them sick. Big difference in hospitalization rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated who contract omicron.
- where hospitalization is required for a vaccinated person, the length of stay is less than with the delta
- not confirmed totally at this stage, but very strong indications that far less likely to require intensive care from omicron - probably because it does not attack the lungs the way delta does
-there is a risk, based on South African figures and early UK figures, that Omicron impacts kids worse than delta. Too early to say for sure but something to be monitored.

Thanks. I'll have a look for that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 08, 2022, 09:19:31 PM
Anything from Tomas Ryan and the rest of ISAG members comes with a health warning.  They tend to talk up any negatives and talk down any positives about the current situation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2022, 08:29:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 08, 2022, 09:19:31 PM
Anything from Tomas Ryan and the rest of ISAG members comes with a health warning.  They tend to talk up any negatives and talk down any positives about the current situation.
It's called reality.

In a global pandemic that is the correct way to look at things.

If a bridge is showing signs that it might collapse, such as, say, the bridge in Genoa, you don't accentuate the positives. "Ah shure go on there, you'll be grand." In aircraft safety, you don't say, "ah, it probably won't crash".

The analysis of Ryan and ISAG has been hard headed and realistic all through and because of that they have given as good an analysis of the situation all through as you'll find in this country.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 09, 2022, 08:59:33 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2022, 08:29:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 08, 2022, 09:19:31 PM
Anything from Tomas Ryan and the rest of ISAG members comes with a health warning.  They tend to talk up any negatives and talk down any positives about the current situation.
It's called reality.

In a global pandemic that is the correct way to look at things.

If a bridge is showing signs that it might collapse, such as, say, the bridge in Genoa, you don't accentuate the positives. "Ah shure go on there, you'll be grand." In aircraft safety, you don't say, "ah, it probably won't crash".

The analysis of Ryan and ISAG has been hard headed and realistic all through and because of that they have given as good an analysis of the situation all through as you'll find in this country.
We got relatively lucky with Omicron but this is a war and we are nowhere near the end mostly because of the global percentage unvaccinated and the weakness of fighting on a national basis.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 09, 2022, 09:32:57 AM
Sid I don't expect accentuate of the positives however I'd much prefer balanced analysis of the situation than agenda driven ultra negative fear mongering analysis that you'll find for those chaps and their devoted followers are as weird as they come.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on January 09, 2022, 09:36:43 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 09, 2022, 08:59:33 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2022, 08:29:04 AM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 08, 2022, 09:19:31 PM
Anything from Tomas Ryan and the rest of ISAG members comes with a health warning.  They tend to talk up any negatives and talk down any positives about the current situation.
It's called reality.

In a global pandemic that is the correct way to look at things.

If a bridge is showing signs that it might collapse, such as, say, the bridge in Genoa, you don't accentuate the positives. "Ah shure go on there, you'll be grand." In aircraft safety, you don't say, "ah, it probably won't crash".

The analysis of Ryan and ISAG has been hard headed and realistic all through and because of that they have given as good an analysis of the situation all through as you'll find in this country.
We got relatively lucky with Omicron but this is a war and we are nowhere near the end mostly because of the global percentage unvaccinated and the weakness of fighting on a national basis.
As in we have a population that over 90% of those that can be vaccinated got vaccinated?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebuzz on January 09, 2022, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2022, 12:13:39 PM
I've a close relative in the infectious diseases field, and they say that nasal swabbing is proving inadequate when it comes to testing for Omicron.

Throat swabbing may start to be incorporated for rapid tests as its more likely to detect it early on. Apparently Omicron affects the throat and renders the patient infectious a couple of days before it moves to the nose.

Not sure what that will mean for home testing though.

I got a home testing kit from Boots yesterday and the chemist said it was only to be used in both nostrils. I thought this was something new as I had previously only seen kits where you swabbed the back of your throat as well as the nostril,  You reckon this would be a step back instead?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 09, 2022, 12:07:15 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 07, 2022, 10:52:15 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 07, 2022, 10:40:30 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on January 07, 2022, 10:13:35 PM
When will vax passports be done away with?
Be a long while yet if ever i'd say.... Bigger question is when will 2 jabs be considered not vaccinated..

Would the 2020 Flu jab cover you for the 2021 Flu? You have to be taking the hand with the majority of your posts re Covid
Aye but I've never been asked for my 2020 flu jab to go for a pint or get on a plane...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2022, 12:44:13 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 09, 2022, 09:32:57 AM
Sid I don't expect accentuate of the positives however I'd much prefer balanced analysis of the situation than agenda driven ultra negative fear mongering analysis that you'll find for those chaps and their devoted followers are as weird as they come.
That's a deliberate and mendacious mischaracterisation and doesn't address the reality that their analysis has been as accurate as you will find.

The main reason European countries, especially the UK, have done so poorly during his pandemic is because they have dismissed realistic, hard headed analysis in favour of so called "positivity".

"Positivity" was corner cutting fantasy.

I find it more  than bizarre that those who rejected corner cutting fantasy are now vilified. There's a mass psychosis at work out there.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2022, 12:50:41 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2022, 12:07:15 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 07, 2022, 10:52:15 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 07, 2022, 10:40:30 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on January 07, 2022, 10:13:35 PM
When will vax passports be done away with?
Be a long while yet if ever i'd say.... Bigger question is when will 2 jabs be considered not vaccinated..

Would the 2020 Flu jab cover you for the 2021 Flu? You have to be taking the hand with the majority of your posts re Covid
Aye but I've never been asked for my 2020 flu jab to go for a pint or get on a plane...

Never been in a pandemic either
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 09, 2022, 01:12:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2022, 12:50:41 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 09, 2022, 12:07:15 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 07, 2022, 10:52:15 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 07, 2022, 10:40:30 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on January 07, 2022, 10:13:35 PM
When will vax passports be done away with?
Be a long while yet if ever i'd say.... Bigger question is when will 2 jabs be considered not vaccinated..

Would the 2020 Flu jab cover you for the 2021 Flu? You have to be taking the hand with the majority of your posts re Covid
Aye but I've never been asked for my 2020 flu jab to go for a pint or get on a plane...

Never been in a pandemic either

Was just about to say the same. It amazes me how people conveniently forget this minor detail.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 09, 2022, 01:31:47 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on January 09, 2022, 12:44:13 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on January 09, 2022, 09:32:57 AM
Sid I don't expect accentuate of the positives however I'd much prefer balanced analysis of the situation than agenda driven ultra negative fear mongering analysis that you'll find for those chaps and their devoted followers are as weird as they come.
That's a deliberate and mendacious mischaracterisation and doesn't address the reality that their analysis has been as accurate as you will find.

The main reason European countries, especially the UK, have done so poorly during his pandemic is because they have dismissed realistic, hard headed analysis in favour of so called "positivity".

"Positivity" was corner cutting fantasy.

I find it more  than bizarre that those who rejected corner cutting fantasy are now vilified. There's a mass psychosis at work out there.
According to MD in Private Eye one of the main drivers of the UK Covid outcome is massive income inequality. Poverty is correlated with ill health and poor immunity. . The UK has a lot of poor people.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 09, 2022, 01:55:11 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 09, 2022, 01:12:28 PM
Was just about to say the same. It amazes me how people conveniently forget this minor detail.

Maybe not, but there are inoculation requirements for travel in many cases, and these have varied over time as appropriate, smallpox vaccines were required for travel for 35 years. Flu is not a particular issue at present, but it could be at some time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 09, 2022, 01:59:25 PM
A, lad around were we live picked up Corona for a 3rd time, hard to believe. His family would been the first family to pick it up on the original first wave. I presume they been vaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 09, 2022, 02:03:19 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 09, 2022, 01:59:25 PM
A, lad around were we live picked up Corona for a 3rd time, hard to believe. His family would been the first family to pick it up on the original first wave. I presume they been vaccinated.

Well if you can get it a second time you can get it a third or fourth if you're continuing to do the same things expect the same results?

I'd question their behaviours
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 09, 2022, 02:19:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 09, 2022, 01:55:11 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on January 09, 2022, 01:12:28 PM
Was just about to say the same. It amazes me how people conveniently forget this minor detail.

Maybe not, but there are inoculation requirements for travel in many cases, and these have varied over time as appropriate, smallpox vaccines were required for travel for 35 years. Flu is not a particular issue at present, but it could be at some time.

Hence if it was a flu pandemic it would be safe to assume that there would be similar controls and restrictions in place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 09, 2022, 02:22:29 PM
Quote from: thebuzz on January 09, 2022, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2022, 12:13:39 PM
I've a close relative in the infectious diseases field, and they say that nasal swabbing is proving inadequate when it comes to testing for Omicron.

Throat swabbing may start to be incorporated for rapid tests as its more likely to detect it early on. Apparently Omicron affects the throat and renders the patient infectious a couple of days before it moves to the nose.

Not sure what that will mean for home testing though.

I got a home testing kit from Boots yesterday and the chemist said it was only to be used in both nostrils. I thought this was something new as I had previously only seen kits where you swabbed the back of your throat as well as the nostril,  You reckon this would be a step back instead?

Don't know.

In the US, it's been nostrils all the way through in my experience (and I've been tested a lot through work).

But go with what your local doctors/public health authorities say and what the manufacturers of the kits recommend. They're the ones who design and test them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 09, 2022, 02:25:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 09, 2022, 02:22:29 PM
Quote from: thebuzz on January 09, 2022, 11:17:06 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 08, 2022, 12:13:39 PM
I've a close relative in the infectious diseases field, and they say that nasal swabbing is proving inadequate when it comes to testing for Omicron.

Throat swabbing may start to be incorporated for rapid tests as its more likely to detect it early on. Apparently Omicron affects the throat and renders the patient infectious a couple of days before it moves to the nose.

Not sure what that will mean for home testing though.

I got a home testing kit from Boots yesterday and the chemist said it was only to be used in both nostrils. I thought this was something new as I had previously only seen kits where you swabbed the back of your throat as well as the nostril,  You reckon this would be a step back instead?

Don't know.

In the US, it's been nostrils all the way through in my experience (and I've been tested a lot through work).

But go with what your local doctors/public health authorities say and what the manufacturers of the kits recommend. They're the ones who design and test them.

Nostrils are usual for these kits and that worked well for variants before Omicron.
They now think that the big O lives in the throat and that sometimes these tests miss it, so they may design new tests. However, you can only use the one you have as instructed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 09, 2022, 03:34:43 PM
Every second person I talk too has been sick or tested positive in the last 3 weeks vaccinated or unvaccinated most have mild symptoms one or two stayed in bed for a couple of days , the infection rate is not driving up hospital numbers like this type of positive rate would have last year , this variant is bypassing vaccines , vaccine mandates ,vaccine green passes , lockdowns and curfews , the virus is  telling the world none of that stuff works the virus is moving through the world and we are nearly all going to get it and at this stage it's mild I just had it . Doubling down on policies that have failed is not the answer , we need to go back to normal asap the virus has and will do what it wants if the last 2 years don't show you that you have no common sense (which is in short supply worldwide)
Mental illness the next or maybe current pandemic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on January 09, 2022, 04:04:04 PM
Safe to say that the actual infection rate is at least twice as much.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 09, 2022, 04:05:51 PM
Omicron is far more transmissible than Delta but ICU's don't seem to be under any pressure. The immunocompromised are the most vulnerable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 09, 2022, 06:52:40 PM
To give some perspective on ROI situation

2022
January 9th

Cases previous 30 days: roughly 400,000
In hospital 984
ICU 83

2021
January 9th

Cases previous 30 days : roughly 40,000
In hospital 1352
In ICU 120

The stays are much shorter in hospital now and 83 figure in ICU is mostly delta than the dominant omicron variant.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Sportacus on January 09, 2022, 08:09:16 PM
It turns out vaccines/boosters work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 09, 2022, 08:22:44 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 08, 2022, 12:42:19 PM
when you say "all over" what do you mean? an end to the requirements to have restrictions? an end to pressure on our healthcare systems? am end for the need for testing? an end to taking any other action than we do for other viruses?

Essentially an end to restrictions and testing for most.
Still massive pressure on healthcare - and will be for years as they work to claw back the lost treatment time for others.

It'll become another viral infection, not as lethal as some, but perhaps more infectious than most.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 09, 2022, 08:24:29 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 09, 2022, 01:59:25 PM
A, lad around were we live picked up Corona for a 3rd time, hard to believe. His family would been the first family to pick it up on the original first wave. I presume they been vaccinated.

and how did his body react? Fight it off quickly enough or did it do a serious number on him?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 09, 2022, 08:40:14 PM
I seen this puff piece in the beeb today espousing the benefits of lateral flows.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59895258


Apparently unlike the journo who scribbled the shite - I read the paper by Irene Peterson et al several months back and thought it extremely poor science then - nothing in between has changed my mind.
This statement:
QuoteA peer-reviewed paper she co-authored in October found they were 80% effective at detecting any level of active Covid infection and even better at picking up the most infectious individuals.
Is outright wrong. The paper "found" nothing of the sort as the paper was a massive exercise in philosophy.

Essentially it took the form of: "Lets make a tenuous hypothesis - fire a few gigantic assumptions at it and hey presto - we're sorted."

No one has yet to do a full clinic workup* on lateral flow tests. While comparing them to PCR is apples and oranges - given the lack of that workup - then comparing to PCR is the only thing there is. Making massive leaps of faith to conclusions of such importance is very irresponsible.

*looking at live viral particles only - which means trying to grow from samples on a petrii etc. It may turn out they are quite good. But a false negative rate of up to 50% is not good enough and no amount of bluster can change that.



If we're at the point of going to lateral flow tests only - we'd be safer stopping altogether as they are nigh on useless. Even if they did catch 70% of infectious folks at some point - their small sensitivity window means that person will have been infectious for a period prior to detection. With Omicron that will mean infecting at least one other person. So R would still be 1 for those that it did work on. Obviously those that it didn't will just go spreading it everywhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on January 09, 2022, 08:42:41 PM
Yeah I've been thinking how to we get to the other end of this ? Particularly in the workplace when people have to self isolate either as contacts or positive themselves. Reduce isolation period ? Is that a risk as you may still be infectious. But it's apparent now that thousands in the workforce, especially NHS are being taken out of action and are not sick, or unable to work in the normal sense. I don't have the answers, just curious what people think is the way out ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 09, 2022, 08:47:15 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 09, 2022, 08:22:44 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 08, 2022, 12:42:19 PM
when you say "all over" what do you mean? an end to the requirements to have restrictions? an end to pressure on our healthcare systems? am end for the need for testing? an end to taking any other action than we do for other viruses?

Essentially an end to restrictions and testing for most.
Still massive pressure on healthcare - and will be for years as they work to claw back the lost treatment time for others.

It'll become another viral infection, not as lethal as some, but perhaps more infectious than most.

This is not an end state. The process of dominant variant is random. The next one could be far worse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 09, 2022, 08:48:12 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 09, 2022, 08:42:41 PM
Yeah I've been thinking how to we get to the other end of this ? Particularly in the workplace when people have to self isolate either as contacts or positive themselves. Reduce isolation period ? Is that a risk as you may still be infectious. But it's apparent now that thousands in the workforce, especially NHS are being taken out of action and are not sick, or unable to work in the normal sense. I don't have the answers, just curious what people think is the way out ?

Why bother to isolate when 90% of your co-workers have had it in the past few weeks?

We'll reach that point fairly shortly I'd think.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 09, 2022, 08:50:31 PM
I was listening to something on the radio this evening which was to that effect. Basically testing becomes meaningless so if you're sick you stay off work and that is it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 09, 2022, 08:53:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 09, 2022, 08:47:15 PM
This is not an end state. The process of dominant variant is random. The next one could be far worse.

It is an end state.

Omicron will reach pretty much everyone.

Therefore everyone - even the anti-vax clowns - will have a degree of immunity.


So, just like the common flus, people will get it and fight it off. Current mortality rate for the vaccinated is similar ball park to other flus (~2 per 100,000).

Yes, covid-19 will change - just like flu's change year to year - and the annual flu vaccine will be adapted to incorporate it.


The spanish flu went away because it became weaker over time.
European flus didn't kill everyone in south america when first introduced as people developed immunity.

Covid-19 will be both of the above.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 09, 2022, 08:54:35 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 09, 2022, 08:50:31 PM
I was listening to something on the radio this evening which was to that effect. Basically testing becomes meaningless so if you're sick you stay off work and that is it.

Its already meaningless.

The govt just don't want to admit that as it would mean admitting they've totally lost control.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 09, 2022, 08:57:36 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 09, 2022, 08:42:41 PM
Yeah I've been thinking how to we get to the other end of this ? Particularly in the workplace when people have to self isolate either as contacts or positive themselves. Reduce isolation period ? Is that a risk as you may still be infectious. But it's apparent now that thousands in the workforce, especially NHS are being taken out of action and are not sick, or unable to work in the normal sense. I don't have the answers, just curious what people think is the way out ?

We're a long way from the other end yet. What isn't known yet is what are the long term effects of getting covid. It is a vascular disease ie it gets into the blood stream and travels around the body. People who get long covid seem to get lots of micro clots all around the body. There are some scientists who say that these micro clots or stickiness of the blood is a risk for everyone who gets covid. That leads to a heightened risk of heart disease or stokes in the months after covid, even from mild or asymptomatic covid. Those long tem effects have yet to play out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 09, 2022, 09:41:55 PM
Which blood markers are indicative of these risk factors? Having an extended blood panel carried out in the next few weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: sid waddell on January 09, 2022, 09:45:03 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 09, 2022, 08:57:36 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 09, 2022, 08:42:41 PM
Yeah I've been thinking how to we get to the other end of this ? Particularly in the workplace when people have to self isolate either as contacts or positive themselves. Reduce isolation period ? Is that a risk as you may still be infectious. But it's apparent now that thousands in the workforce, especially NHS are being taken out of action and are not sick, or unable to work in the normal sense. I don't have the answers, just curious what people think is the way out ?

We're a long way from the other end yet. What isn't known yet is what are the long term effects of getting covid. It is a vascular disease ie it gets into the blood stream and travels around the body. People who get long covid seem to get lots of micro clots all around the body. There are some scientists who say that these micro clots or stickiness of the blood is a risk for everyone who gets covid. That leads to a heightened risk of heart disease or stokes in the months after covid, even from mild or asymptomatic covid. Those long tem effects have yet to play out.
You'd wonder if all the shouting and bullshit about the supposed "long term" effects of vaccines wasn't a concerted ploy to distract attention from the real long term effects - of Covid itself, and of the healthcare denied to people because healthcare systems were snowed under with Covid.

In the US, a CEO of a big life insurance company has said the death rate of people aged 18-64 is 40% above normal. In South Africa and in the UK, the death figures are rising. Not in the same way they did last year, but rising all the same. There are pretty reasonable grounds to expect an epidemic of chronic illness for years to come and elevated death rates for the foreseeable future.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/07/true-number-covid-deaths-us-likely-undercounted-experts
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 09, 2022, 09:58:54 PM
I was reading a thread on Twitter where someone was saying about the rate of heart attacks in young footballers has went up significantly and it's clearly because of the vaccine. No thought for a if it were true and b if it were then maybe the thing the vaccine is trying to avoid could be a problem itself. No, must be the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on January 09, 2022, 10:50:39 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 09, 2022, 08:57:36 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 09, 2022, 08:42:41 PM
Yeah I've been thinking how to we get to the other end of this ? Particularly in the workplace when people have to self isolate either as contacts or positive themselves. Reduce isolation period ? Is that a risk as you may still be infectious. But it's apparent now that thousands in the workforce, especially NHS are being taken out of action and are not sick, or unable to work in the normal sense. I don't have the answers, just curious what people think is the way out ?

We're a long way from the other end yet. What isn't known yet is what are the long term effects of getting covid. It is a vascular disease ie it gets into the blood stream and travels around the body. People who get long covid seem to get lots of micro clots all around the body. There are some scientists who say that these micro clots or stickiness of the blood is a risk for everyone who gets covid. That leads to a heightened risk of heart disease or stokes in the months after covid, even from mild or asymptomatic covid. Those long tem effects have yet to play out.

There is also long flu. Covid has created that window of opportunity to focus on how long it takes to completely recover from an infection.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 10, 2022, 09:41:10 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 09, 2022, 08:09:16 PM
It turns out vaccines/boosters work.
Is it the vaccine/booster making omicron less deadly or just the fact that it is a more transmissible but less deadly regardless of vaccination?

Seems that vaccine/boosters are more or less useless at stopping the spread of omicron at this stage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 10, 2022, 09:42:25 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 09, 2022, 08:48:12 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 09, 2022, 08:42:41 PM
Yeah I've been thinking how to we get to the other end of this ? Particularly in the workplace when people have to self isolate either as contacts or positive themselves. Reduce isolation period ? Is that a risk as you may still be infectious. But it's apparent now that thousands in the workforce, especially NHS are being taken out of action and are not sick, or unable to work in the normal sense. I don't have the answers, just curious what people think is the way out ?

Why bother to isolate when 90% of your co-workers have had it in the past few weeks?

We'll reach that point fairly shortly I'd think.
Seems to be that everyone you speak to these days either has covid or has had it in the past few weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 10, 2022, 09:43:02 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 09, 2022, 08:50:31 PM
I was listening to something on the radio this evening which was to that effect. Basically testing becomes meaningless so if you're sick you stay off work and that is it.
Jaysus hopefully we get to that stage soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 10, 2022, 12:00:56 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 10, 2022, 09:41:10 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on January 09, 2022, 08:09:16 PM
It turns out vaccines/boosters work.
Is it the vaccine/booster making omicron less deadly or just the fact that it is a more transmissible but less deadly regardless of vaccination?

Seems that vaccine/boosters are more or less useless at stopping the spread of omicron at this stage.

The stats on how the vaccinated and unvaccinated are respectively faring should help you out in answering your question.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: oakleaflad on January 10, 2022, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 09, 2022, 09:58:54 PM
I was reading a thread on Twitter where someone was saying about the rate of heart attacks in young footballers has went up significantly and it's clearly because of the vaccine. No thought for a if it were true and b if it were then maybe the thing the vaccine is trying to avoid could be a problem itself. No, must be the vaccine.
Saw a PT spouting this when Eriksen collapsed at the Euro's. Turns out he didn't have the vaccine (or covid).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Man Marker on January 10, 2022, 01:52:21 PM
Found this massively interesting

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2008/08/researchers-find-long-lived-immunity-1918-pandemic-virus (https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2008/08/researchers-find-long-lived-immunity-1918-pandemic-virus)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 10, 2022, 06:07:31 PM
Quote from: oakleaflad on January 10, 2022, 12:04:32 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 09, 2022, 09:58:54 PM
I was reading a thread on Twitter where someone was saying about the rate of heart attacks in young footballers has went up significantly and it's clearly because of the vaccine. No thought for a if it were true and b if it were then maybe the thing the vaccine is trying to avoid could be a problem itself. No, must be the vaccine.
Saw a PT spouting this when Eriksen collapsed at the Euro's. Turns out he didn't have the vaccine (or covid).

Doctor PT!! They completely lost their shit on fb during this pandemic, not that I'd use one but I certainly wouldn't recommend some of the clampits I've read on FB!

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 10, 2022, 06:15:45 PM
CDC are now saying 75% of deaths in USA had at least 4  comorbidities and were very sick people before Covid , time to move on to an exit strategy.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 10, 2022, 06:31:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 10, 2022, 06:15:45 PM
CDC are now saying 75% of deaths in USA had at least 4  comorbidities and were very sick people before Covid , time to move on to an exit strategy.

Whats a comorbidity? Missing tooth, asthma, rheumatism, high blood pressure, baldness, dodgy knee, wearing glasses?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 10, 2022, 06:52:45 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 10, 2022, 06:31:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 10, 2022, 06:15:45 PM
CDC are now saying 75% of deaths in USA had at least 4  comorbidities and were very sick people before Covid , time to move on to an exit strategy.

Whats a comorbidity? Missing tooth, asthma, rheumatism, high blood pressure, baldness, dodgy knee, wearing glasses?
for Covid
Cancer
Diabetes type 1 and 2
Substance abuse
Kidney disease
Lung disease Copd
Down syndrome
TB
Mental health disorders
Heart disease , hyper tension,
Cerebrovascular disease
Liver disease
Most of the stuff you mentioned seem fine so things are looking good for you .
Do you want it to go on forever?  Look for positives
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 10, 2022, 08:19:57 PM
Have you seen the average American as you walk around Gmac?

Having at least some of the comorbidities from that list is far from exceptional.

And those are just deaths. What about serious illness and the current packing of hospital (not just ICU) beds all over?

Not wanting it to go on forever is all the more reason for people to get vaccinated!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on January 10, 2022, 09:13:25 PM
Can anyone explain why GPS more or less shut up shop and it's ni impossible to get an appointment with them ?.?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 10, 2022, 09:31:28 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on January 10, 2022, 09:13:25 PM
Can anyone explain why GPS more or less shut up shop and it's ni impossible to get an appointment with them ?.?

They haven't shut up shop. Appointments are done on a triage basis day by day and demand is very high. If the GP decides that your problem can't be dealt with by phone, you'll be called in. Each GP deals with about 30 phone calls a day, maybe seeing about 5-10 of those face to face. They also deal with house calls, blood results, actioning letters, vaccinate, smear clinics, baby clinics etc.

Unfortunately there are only so many phone calls can be done in a working day! Once the list is filled that's it until the following day, although they will still deal with emergencies.

If you are struggling to get through on the phone, my advice is redial redial redial. Get a redial app on your phone to do the work for you. Whatever you don't try 3 or 4 times and give up. Redial for 15 minutes straight and you will get through.

I think more needs to be done to educate people on how to access the healthcare system, what is and isn't a GP problem etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 10, 2022, 09:35:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 10, 2022, 08:19:57 PM
Have you seen the average American as you walk around Gmac?

Don't be silly.

They segway or mobility scooter around.

Walk? FFS that might burn calories  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 10, 2022, 09:54:36 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 10, 2022, 09:31:28 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on January 10, 2022, 09:13:25 PM
Can anyone explain why GPS more or less shut up shop and it's ni impossible to get an appointment with them ?.?

They haven't shut up shop. Appointments are done on a triage basis day by day and demand is very high. If the GP decides that your problem can't be dealt with by phone, you'll be called in. Each GP deals with about 30 phone calls a day, maybe seeing about 5-10 of those face to face. They also deal with house calls, blood results, actioning letters, vaccinate, smear clinics, baby clinics etc.

Unfortunately there are only so many phone calls can be done in a working day! Once the list is filled that's it until the following day, although they will still deal with emergencies.

If you are struggling to get through on the phone, my advice is redial redial redial. Get a redial app on your phone to do the work for you. Whatever you don't try 3 or 4 times and give up. Redial for 15 minutes straight and you will get through.

I think more needs to be done to educate people on how to access the healthcare system, what is and isn't a GP problem etc.
Are you a GP?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 10, 2022, 10:06:20 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 10, 2022, 09:54:36 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 10, 2022, 09:31:28 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on January 10, 2022, 09:13:25 PM
Can anyone explain why GPS more or less shut up shop and it's ni impossible to get an appointment with them ?.?

They haven't shut up shop. Appointments are done on a triage basis day by day and demand is very high. If the GP decides that your problem can't be dealt with by phone, you'll be called in. Each GP deals with about 30 phone calls a day, maybe seeing about 5-10 of those face to face. They also deal with house calls, blood results, actioning letters, vaccinate, smear clinics, baby clinics etc.

Unfortunately there are only so many phone calls can be done in a working day! Once the list is filled that's it until the following day, although they will still deal with emergencies.

If you are struggling to get through on the phone, my advice is redial redial redial. Get a redial app on your phone to do the work for you. Whatever you don't try 3 or 4 times and give up. Redial for 15 minutes straight and you will get through.

I think more needs to be done to educate people on how to access the healthcare system, what is and isn't a GP problem etc.
Are you a GP?

I am not but I work in one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on January 10, 2022, 10:13:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 10, 2022, 09:31:28 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on January 10, 2022, 09:13:25 PM
Can anyone explain why GPS more or less shut up shop and it's ni impossible to get an appointment with them ?.?

They haven't shut up shop. Appointments are done on a triage basis day by day and demand is very high. If the GP decides that your problem can't be dealt with by phone, you'll be called in. Each GP deals with about 30 phone calls a day, maybe seeing about 5-10 of those face to face. They also deal with house calls, blood results, actioning letters, vaccinate, smear clinics, baby clinics etc.

Unfortunately there are only so many phone calls can be done in a working day! Once the list is filled that's it until the following day, although they will still deal with emergencies.

If you are struggling to get through on the phone, my advice is redial redial redial. Get a redial app on your phone to do the work for you. Whatever you don't try 3 or 4 times and give up. Redial for 15 minutes straight and you will get through.

I think more needs to be done to educate people on how to access the healthcare system, what is and isn't a GP problem etc.

Not much bother getting through to reception . My problem can't be dealt with by phone but was told that due to covid he was unable to give my mother an injection .... She is now in pain but has to wait until some unknown time to try and get another appointment with him.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2022, 12:29:33 AM
How's a gp supposed to diganose what's wrong with your chest over the phone or tell what's wrong with you, simple answer they can't. I was spitting up blood for 7 days, had ripped stomach lining in past and though it was a reoccurrence. It was 2 weeks before they see me face to face as it wasn't deemed a emergency, ended up it was early stages of tuberculosis. Point is if they seen me at the start I wouldn't had the problems I still have now. The service from the gp in my opinion went through the floor. Having to explain to the admin who not a doctor your medical issues not on either. They got 8 gp in my surgery, near all are part time, u can't see the same gp twice, how are they supposed to keep track of a patients well been when you don't see the same doctor L. Years ago you seen the same doctor all the time and they knew your history, but they worked full time not a 2/3 day week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on January 11, 2022, 12:57:50 AM
I've had to see my GP on far too many occasions over the last six weeks. Phoned up in the morning. Was called back around lunch and when necessary was seen in the afternoon. Can't fault the system at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on January 11, 2022, 03:39:44 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on January 11, 2022, 12:57:50 AM
I've had to see my GP on far too many occasions over the last six weeks. Phoned up in the morning. Was called back around lunch and when necessary was seen in the afternoon. Can't fault the system at all.

You are lucky. I can't see how Covid  is a reason for preventing any GP in our surgery administering a pain relieving injection. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 11, 2022, 03:51:02 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 10, 2022, 09:35:03 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 10, 2022, 08:19:57 PM
Have you seen the average American as you walk around Gmac?

Don't be silly.

They segway or mobility scooter around.

Walk? FFS that might burn calories  ;D
the same fat shites would tell you put on a mask to protect their health
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 11, 2022, 04:37:23 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 10, 2022, 06:31:15 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 10, 2022, 06:15:45 PM
CDC are now saying 75% of deaths in USA had at least 4  comorbidities and were very sick people before Covid , time to move on to an exit strategy.

Whats a comorbidity? Missing tooth, asthma, rheumatism, high blood pressure, baldness, dodgy knee, wearing glasses?

Our ol' mate gmac regurgitating Don Jrs rubbish again

QuoteWalensky referenced a particular study that found:

Of 1,228,664 people *fully vaccinated*

Just 36 died of Covid-19

28 of those 36, 78%, had four or more comorbidities

Walensky was asked about this study and responded by summarizing the study. Did not talk all Covid deaths

The clip is here - https://twitter.com/JamesSurowiecki/status/1480709905405427712
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 11, 2022, 08:27:15 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2022, 12:29:33 AM
How's a gp supposed to diganose what's wrong with your chest over the phone or tell what's wrong with you, simple answer they can't. I was spitting up blood for 7 days, had ripped stomach lining in past and though it was a reoccurrence. It was 2 weeks before they see me face to face as it wasn't deemed a emergency, ended up it was early stages of tuberculosis. Point is if they seen me at the start I wouldn't had the problems I still have now. The service from the gp in my opinion went through the floor. Having to explain to the admin who not a doctor your medical issues not on either. They got 8 gp in my surgery, near all are part time, u can't see the same gp twice, how are they supposed to keep track of a patients well been when you don't see the same doctor L. Years ago you seen the same doctor all the time and they knew your history, but they worked full time not a 2/3 day week.

Ok few things. They usually have an admin day where they spend the day actioning letters, coding records etc. 4 days a week 8-6 is a typical working week for a GP (40hrs).

Admin staff are trained to determine what is/isn't an emergency. You need a filter there otherwise unfortunately the slots would fill up even quicker and be filled with absolute crap like I need help with the NIDIRECT covid passport website, I swallowed some mouthwash, I want to speak to Dr X to ask how his son is. You would not believe what people ring their GP for. This makes it harder for real problems to get through.

Also, any doctor will be sitting infront of your full history anytime you speak to them, so don't worry about different GPs.

As for your TB case, were you speaking to the GP at the start? Usually in a case like that you'd be asked to send in a sputum sample, did this not happen?

Like any industry or profession, there are good ones and bad ones. I feel the likes of dentists and hospitals get off lightly compared to GP surgeries. Tried seeing a dentist recently? Good luck. Waiting on a hospital consultant? Prepare for a long wait.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 09:14:40 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 11, 2022, 08:27:15 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2022, 12:29:33 AM
How's a gp supposed to diganose what's wrong with your chest over the phone or tell what's wrong with you, simple answer they can't. I was spitting up blood for 7 days, had ripped stomach lining in past and though it was a reoccurrence. It was 2 weeks before they see me face to face as it wasn't deemed a emergency, ended up it was early stages of tuberculosis. Point is if they seen me at the start I wouldn't had the problems I still have now. The service from the gp in my opinion went through the floor. Having to explain to the admin who not a doctor your medical issues not on either. They got 8 gp in my surgery, near all are part time, u can't see the same gp twice, how are they supposed to keep track of a patients well been when you don't see the same doctor L. Years ago you seen the same doctor all the time and they knew your history, but they worked full time not a 2/3 day week.

Ok few things. They usually have an admin day where they spend the day actioning letters, coding records etc. 4 days a week 8-6 is a typical working week for a GP (40hrs).

Admin staff are trained to determine what is/isn't an emergency. You need a filter there otherwise unfortunately the slots would fill up even quicker and be filled with absolute crap like I need help with the NIDIRECT covid passport website, I swallowed some mouthwash, I want to speak to Dr X to ask how his son is. You would not believe what people ring their GP for. This makes it harder for real problems to get through.

Also, any doctor will be sitting infront of your full history anytime you speak to them, so don't worry about different GPs.

As for your TB case, were you speaking to the GP at the start? Usually in a case like that you'd be asked to send in a sputum sample, did this not happen?

Like any industry or profession, there are good ones and bad ones. I feel the likes of dentists and hospitals get off lightly compared to GP surgeries. Tried seeing a dentist recently? Good luck. Waiting on a hospital consultant? Prepare for a long wait.

I'm working out of a GP surgery also. Its busy enough, it's being used for other things also which keep numbers coming into the the clinic, so its not like they are stopping people coming in, I'm fairly busy all day (while he has a cuppa) 2 full time doctors 2 nurses and a couple of doctors who are in 2 or three days a week.

As for my own experience of going to a GP, I've only been to the GP twice in 30 years, both times during covid, one was a minor complaint and the other was for a check up for a stool sample for check up bowl cancer. Its a pain to sit and wait on the call but once I got through a doctor called back and arranged to see me that day.

The doctors I see working here are in first thing in the morning and last out at night, they are busy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 11, 2022, 09:25:49 AM
They are under resourced. I saw a GP within 15 minutes about 3 months ago during the pandemic. It is an absolute pain the arse getting through to them mind you.

I have heard two sides to the story. From my own perspective I had a lingering cough and wasn't seen so got antibiotics which were useless. That wouldn't have happened pre covid and I'd have been properly diagnosed initially but I can kind of see why too.

On the flip side there are bad ones too. My wife's boss got a bad one wrt care of her father who was in significant pain. The GP would do nothing for him and this was day to day significant pain. Eventually a second opinion was asked for and he was told to get into hospital immediately. The original GP should have been given a boot up the hole and disciplined.

Like anything you get good ones and bad ones and they are in a difficult situation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 11, 2022, 09:48:34 AM
I can tell you that the number of cancers being found by the time it is too late is on the increase. Not sure if this is down to GPs but Id suspect there may be a link
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 09:55:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 11, 2022, 09:48:34 AM
I can tell you that the number of cancers being found by the time it is too late is on the increase. Not sure if this is down to GPs but Id suspect there may be a link

I get that, but there are people like my da, who even though the signs were there refused to do anything about it, or afraid to do anything about it.

If you know something is up and not getting any help from your GP, your options are, A&E or private, there are plenty of private clinics now that will take payments for GP services, they aint hard to pay either, I'm not talking Knightbridge or Ulster Clinic, there are small private ones about
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 11, 2022, 10:03:57 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 09:55:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 11, 2022, 09:48:34 AM
I can tell you that the number of cancers being found by the time it is too late is on the increase. Not sure if this is down to GPs but Id suspect there may be a link

I get that, but there are people like my da, who even though the signs were there refused to do anything about it, or afraid to do anything about it.

If you know something is up and not getting any help from your GP, your options are, A&E or private, there are plenty of private clinics now that will take payments for GP services, they aint hard to pay either, I'm not talking Knightbridge or Ulster Clinic, there are small private ones about

I accept that
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 11, 2022, 01:10:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 09:55:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 11, 2022, 09:48:34 AM
I can tell you that the number of cancers being found by the time it is too late is on the increase. Not sure if this is down to GPs but Id suspect there may be a link

I get that, but there are people like my da, who even though the signs were there refused to do anything about it, or afraid to do anything about it.

If you know something is up and not getting any help from your GP, your options are, A&E or private, there are plenty of private clinics now that will take payments for GP services, they aint hard to pay either, I'm not talking Knightbridge or Ulster Clinic, there are small private ones about
Have seen your bake on the wall in one of them  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on January 11, 2022, 01:21:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 09:55:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 11, 2022, 09:48:34 AM
I can tell you that the number of cancers being found by the time it is too late is on the increase. Not sure if this is down to GPs but Id suspect there may be a link

I get that, but there are people like my da, who even though the signs were there refused to do anything about it, or afraid to do anything about it.

If you know something is up and not getting any help from your GP, your options are, A&E or private, there are plenty of private clinics now that will take payments for GP services, they aint hard to pay either, I'm not talking Knightbridge or Ulster Clinic, there are small private ones about

How would you find where they are?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 01:46:58 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 11, 2022, 01:10:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 09:55:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 11, 2022, 09:48:34 AM
I can tell you that the number of cancers being found by the time it is too late is on the increase. Not sure if this is down to GPs but Id suspect there may be a link

I get that, but there are people like my da, who even though the signs were there refused to do anything about it, or afraid to do anything about it.

If you know something is up and not getting any help from your GP, your options are, A&E or private, there are plenty of private clinics now that will take payments for GP services, they aint hard to pay either, I'm not talking Knightbridge or Ulster Clinic, there are small private ones about
Have seen your bake on the wall in one of them  ;)

Bastards have me planted in a few shops in the north, the cnts!! So you can only imagine how ugly the other ones are lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 01:51:07 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on January 11, 2022, 01:21:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 09:55:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 11, 2022, 09:48:34 AM
I can tell you that the number of cancers being found by the time it is too late is on the increase. Not sure if this is down to GPs but Id suspect there may be a link

I get that, but there are people like my da, who even though the signs were there refused to do anything about it, or afraid to do anything about it.

If you know something is up and not getting any help from your GP, your options are, A&E or private, there are plenty of private clinics now that will take payments for GP services, they aint hard to pay either, I'm not talking Knightbridge or Ulster Clinic, there are small private ones about

How would you find where they are?

This doctor called into our place in Belfast a couple of years ago, they have one based in Belfast on Howard street I think

https://vitalishealth.co.uk/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 11, 2022, 02:26:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 11, 2022, 08:27:15 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2022, 12:29:33 AM
How's a gp supposed to diganose what's wrong with your chest over the phone or tell what's wrong with you, simple answer they can't. I was spitting up blood for 7 days, had ripped stomach lining in past and though it was a reoccurrence. It was 2 weeks before they see me face to face as it wasn't deemed a emergency, ended up it was early stages of tuberculosis. Point is if they seen me at the start I wouldn't had the problems I still have now. The service from the gp in my opinion went through the floor. Having to explain to the admin who not a doctor your medical issues not on either. They got 8 gp in my surgery, near all are part time, u can't see the same gp twice, how are they supposed to keep track of a patients well been when you don't see the same doctor L. Years ago you seen the same doctor all the time and they knew your history, but they worked full time not a 2/3 day week.

Ok few things. They usually have an admin day where they spend the day actioning letters, coding records etc. 4 days a week 8-6 is a typical working week for a GP (40hrs).

Admin staff are trained to determine what is/isn't an emergency. You need a filter there otherwise unfortunately the slots would fill up even quicker and be filled with absolute crap like I need help with the NIDIRECT covid passport website, I swallowed some mouthwash, I want to speak to Dr X to ask how his son is. You would not believe what people ring their GP for. This makes it harder for real problems to get through.

Also, any doctor will be sitting infront of your full history anytime you speak to them, so don't worry about different GPs.

As for your TB case, were you speaking to the GP at the start? Usually in a case like that you'd be asked to send in a sputum sample, did this not happen?

Like any industry or profession, there are good ones and bad ones. I feel the likes of dentists and hospitals get off lightly compared to GP surgeries. Tried seeing a dentist recently? Good luck. Waiting on a hospital consultant? Prepare for a long wait.

I think you replied to me before that they now see face to face an average of 5 patients a day. The rest are dealt with on the phone.

How does that differ with rhe numbers of face to face pre-covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 11, 2022, 02:28:56 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 11, 2022, 02:26:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 11, 2022, 08:27:15 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2022, 12:29:33 AM
How's a gp supposed to diganose what's wrong with your chest over the phone or tell what's wrong with you, simple answer they can't. I was spitting up blood for 7 days, had ripped stomach lining in past and though it was a reoccurrence. It was 2 weeks before they see me face to face as it wasn't deemed a emergency, ended up it was early stages of tuberculosis. Point is if they seen me at the start I wouldn't had the problems I still have now. The service from the gp in my opinion went through the floor. Having to explain to the admin who not a doctor your medical issues not on either. They got 8 gp in my surgery, near all are part time, u can't see the same gp twice, how are they supposed to keep track of a patients well been when you don't see the same doctor L. Years ago you seen the same doctor all the time and they knew your history, but they worked full time not a 2/3 day week.

Ok few things. They usually have an admin day where they spend the day actioning letters, coding records etc. 4 days a week 8-6 is a typical working week for a GP (40hrs).

Admin staff are trained to determine what is/isn't an emergency. You need a filter there otherwise unfortunately the slots would fill up even quicker and be filled with absolute crap like I need help with the NIDIRECT covid passport website, I swallowed some mouthwash, I want to speak to Dr X to ask how his son is. You would not believe what people ring their GP for. This makes it harder for real problems to get through.

Also, any doctor will be sitting infront of your full history anytime you speak to them, so don't worry about different GPs.

As for your TB case, were you speaking to the GP at the start? Usually in a case like that you'd be asked to send in a sputum sample, did this not happen?

Like any industry or profession, there are good ones and bad ones. I feel the likes of dentists and hospitals get off lightly compared to GP surgeries. Tried seeing a dentist recently? Good luck. Waiting on a hospital consultant? Prepare for a long wait.

I think you replied to me before that they now see face to face an average of 5 patients a day. The rest are dealt with on the phone.

How does that differ with rhe numbers of face to face pre-covid?

Well it was pretty much all face to face pre covid. So maybe 30 face to face before 2020. The amount of people dealt with in a day is still the same.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 03:30:28 PM
What's the limit on numbers for indoor venues in the South?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 11, 2022, 04:38:30 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/11/covid-loses-90-of-ability-to-infect-within-five-minutes-in-air-study

interesting article in todays Guardian
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 11, 2022, 04:45:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 03:30:28 PM
What's the limit on numbers for indoor venues in the South?
Without checking...  think it's lesser of 50% of seated capacity or 1,000, all out by 8pm.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: David McKeown on January 11, 2022, 04:54:32 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on January 11, 2022, 03:39:44 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on January 11, 2022, 12:57:50 AM
I've had to see my GP on far too many occasions over the last six weeks. Phoned up in the morning. Was called back around lunch and when necessary was seen in the afternoon. Can't fault the system at all.

You are lucky. I can't see how Covid  is a reason for preventing any GP in our surgery administering a pain relieving injection.

I dont think anyone has ever told me I am lucky to be sick before
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 11, 2022, 06:00:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 01:46:58 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 11, 2022, 01:10:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 09:55:14 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 11, 2022, 09:48:34 AM
I can tell you that the number of cancers being found by the time it is too late is on the increase. Not sure if this is down to GPs but Id suspect there may be a link

I get that, but there are people like my da, who even though the signs were there refused to do anything about it, or afraid to do anything about it.

If you know something is up and not getting any help from your GP, your options are, A&E or private, there are plenty of private clinics now that will take payments for GP services, they aint hard to pay either, I'm not talking Knightbridge or Ulster Clinic, there are small private ones about
Have seen your bake on the wall in one of them  ;)

Bastards have me planted in a few shops in the north, the cnts!! So you can only imagine how ugly the other ones are lol
As long as you are getting a % for use of your image rights!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 11, 2022, 08:40:48 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/MotherJones/status/1481000944141627392
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 08:43:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2022, 04:45:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 03:30:28 PM
What's the limit on numbers for indoor venues in the South?
Without checking...  think it's lesser of 50% of seated capacity or 1,000, all out by 8pm.

Is that a continuous reviewing I take it?

Heading to Bord Gais late February it's capacity is 2111! Fingers crossed, would hate to leave her outside  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on January 11, 2022, 08:44:41 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on January 11, 2022, 04:54:32 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on January 11, 2022, 03:39:44 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on January 11, 2022, 12:57:50 AM
I've had to see my GP on far too many occasions over the last six weeks. Phoned up in the morning. Was called back around lunch and when necessary was seen in the afternoon. Can't fault the system at all.

You are lucky. I can't see how Covid  is a reason for preventing any GP in our surgery administering a pain relieving injection.

I dont think anyone has ever told me I am lucky to be sick before

Who did ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on January 11, 2022, 09:45:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 08:43:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2022, 04:45:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 03:30:28 PM
What's the limit on numbers for indoor venues in the South?
Without checking...  think it's lesser of 50% of seated capacity or 1,000, all out by 8pm.

Is that a continuous reviewing I take it?

Heading to Bord Gais late February it's capacity is 2111! Fingers crossed, would hate to leave her outside  ;D

Until 31st January. Should be increased by late February I'd imagine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 11, 2022, 09:50:20 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 11, 2022, 09:45:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 08:43:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2022, 04:45:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 03:30:28 PM
What's the limit on numbers for indoor venues in the South?
Without checking...  think it's lesser of 50% of seated capacity or 1,000, all out by 8pm.

Is that a continuous reviewing I take it?

Heading to Bord Gais late February it's capacity is 2111! Fingers crossed, would hate to leave her outside  ;D

Until 31st January. Should be increased by late February I'd imagine.

I'd say they will just add on the full month!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 11, 2022, 10:06:18 PM
I'm for lion king 4th Feb, it's been indicated to us that it will likely be back to fill capacity then
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 11, 2022, 10:29:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 11, 2022, 02:28:56 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 11, 2022, 02:26:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 11, 2022, 08:27:15 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2022, 12:29:33 AM
How's a gp supposed to diganose what's wrong with your chest over the phone or tell what's wrong with you, simple answer they can't. I was spitting up blood for 7 days, had ripped stomach lining in past and though it was a reoccurrence. It was 2 weeks before they see me face to face as it wasn't deemed a emergency, ended up it was early stages of tuberculosis. Point is if they seen me at the start I wouldn't had the problems I still have now. The service from the gp in my opinion went through the floor. Having to explain to the admin who not a doctor your medical issues not on either. They got 8 gp in my surgery, near all are part time, u can't see the same gp twice, how are they supposed to keep track of a patients well been when you don't see the same doctor L. Years ago you seen the same doctor all the time and they knew your history, but they worked full time not a 2/3 day week.

Ok few things. They usually have an admin day where they spend the day actioning letters, coding records etc. 4 days a week 8-6 is a typical working week for a GP (40hrs).

Admin staff are trained to determine what is/isn't an emergency. You need a filter there otherwise unfortunately the slots would fill up even quicker and be filled with absolute crap like I need help with the NIDIRECT covid passport website, I swallowed some mouthwash, I want to speak to Dr X to ask how his son is. You would not believe what people ring their GP for. This makes it harder for real problems to get through.

Also, any doctor will be sitting infront of your full history anytime you speak to them, so don't worry about different GPs.

As for your TB case, were you speaking to the GP at the start? Usually in a case like that you'd be asked to send in a sputum sample, did this not happen?

Like any industry or profession, there are good ones and bad ones. I feel the likes of dentists and hospitals get off lightly compared to GP surgeries. Tried seeing a dentist recently? Good luck. Waiting on a hospital consultant? Prepare for a long wait.

I think you replied to me before that they now see face to face an average of 5 patients a day. The rest are dealt with on the phone.

How does that differ with rhe numbers of face to face pre-covid?

Well it was pretty much all face to face pre covid. So maybe 30 face to face before 2020. The amount of people dealt with in a day is still the same.

   I'd guess the question then is(and it wont be answered for some time)
    Are the outcome measures better or worse for those same number of patients dealt with each day now as compared to 2019?
     There does seem to be a wide variation between practices in relation to patient access to GP's. This seems a very common theme.
     Personally i think the GMP system here was under intolerable pressure and close to breaking point even before Covid. Same goes for the wider NHS.
      The drive to privatisation is accelerating.
     
       
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 10:37:48 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 11, 2022, 10:06:18 PM
I'm for lion king 4th Feb, it's been indicated to us that it will likely be back to fill capacity then

Great!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on January 12, 2022, 09:39:44 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 11, 2022, 09:50:20 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 11, 2022, 09:45:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 08:43:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2022, 04:45:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 03:30:28 PM
What's the limit on numbers for indoor venues in the South?
Without checking...  think it's lesser of 50% of seated capacity or 1,000, all out by 8pm.

Is that a continuous reviewing I take it?

Heading to Bord Gais late February it's capacity is 2111! Fingers crossed, would hate to leave her outside  ;D

Until 31st January. Should be increased by late February I'd imagine.

I'd say they will just add on the full month!!

I'd say that all depends on how the new 'close contact' rule pans out. If numbers remain high then they probably will.  :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 12, 2022, 10:58:31 AM
Quote from: grounded on January 11, 2022, 10:29:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 11, 2022, 02:28:56 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 11, 2022, 02:26:41 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 11, 2022, 08:27:15 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 11, 2022, 12:29:33 AM
How's a gp supposed to diganose what's wrong with your chest over the phone or tell what's wrong with you, simple answer they can't. I was spitting up blood for 7 days, had ripped stomach lining in past and though it was a reoccurrence. It was 2 weeks before they see me face to face as it wasn't deemed a emergency, ended up it was early stages of tuberculosis. Point is if they seen me at the start I wouldn't had the problems I still have now. The service from the gp in my opinion went through the floor. Having to explain to the admin who not a doctor your medical issues not on either. They got 8 gp in my surgery, near all are part time, u can't see the same gp twice, how are they supposed to keep track of a patients well been when you don't see the same doctor L. Years ago you seen the same doctor all the time and they knew your history, but they worked full time not a 2/3 day week.

Ok few things. They usually have an admin day where they spend the day actioning letters, coding records etc. 4 days a week 8-6 is a typical working week for a GP (40hrs).

Admin staff are trained to determine what is/isn't an emergency. You need a filter there otherwise unfortunately the slots would fill up even quicker and be filled with absolute crap like I need help with the NIDIRECT covid passport website, I swallowed some mouthwash, I want to speak to Dr X to ask how his son is. You would not believe what people ring their GP for. This makes it harder for real problems to get through.

Also, any doctor will be sitting infront of your full history anytime you speak to them, so don't worry about different GPs.

As for your TB case, were you speaking to the GP at the start? Usually in a case like that you'd be asked to send in a sputum sample, did this not happen?

Like any industry or profession, there are good ones and bad ones. I feel the likes of dentists and hospitals get off lightly compared to GP surgeries. Tried seeing a dentist recently? Good luck. Waiting on a hospital consultant? Prepare for a long wait.

I think you replied to me before that they now see face to face an average of 5 patients a day. The rest are dealt with on the phone.

How does that differ with rhe numbers of face to face pre-covid?

Well it was pretty much all face to face pre covid. So maybe 30 face to face before 2020. The amount of people dealt with in a day is still the same.

   I'd guess the question then is(and it wont be answered for some time)
    Are the outcome measures better or worse for those same number of patients dealt with each day now as compared to 2019?
     There does seem to be a wide variation between practices in relation to patient access to GP's. This seems a very common theme.
     Personally i think the GMP system here was under intolerable pressure and close to breaking point even before Covid. Same goes for the wider NHS.
      The drive to privatisation is accelerating.
     
       

There was plenty of Health Centres running a triage service by phone long before Covid arrived
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 12, 2022, 03:03:27 PM
If we got off our arses more, ate real food(that doesn't mean as per public health and nutrition guidelines btw), drank less, slept more there would be a lot less need for all the gps.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 12, 2022, 03:10:18 PM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2022, 03:03:27 PM
If we got off our arses more, ate real food(that doesn't mean as per public health and nutrition guidelines btw), drank less, slept more there would be a lot less need for all the gps.

Definitely burdened down with repeat costumers
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 12, 2022, 03:19:48 PM
Quote from: Last Man on January 12, 2022, 03:03:27 PM
If we got off our arses more, ate real food(that doesn't mean as per public health and nutrition guidelines btw), drank less, slept more there would be a lot less need for all the gps.

I was enjoying a sausage roll bap when I started reading that, ffs, chucked it in the bin
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 12, 2022, 03:38:36 PM
Numbers definitely dropping significantly in the north both case wise and hospital wise. You could never be sure if case wise could be due to testing volume but the hospital cases are the critical barometer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on January 12, 2022, 04:46:57 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 12, 2022, 03:38:36 PM
Numbers definitely dropping significantly in the north both case wise and hospital wise. You could never be sure if case wise could be due to testing volume but the hospital cases are the critical barometer.

I wouldn't be paying any heed to the reported cases anymore due to the change in guidance for getting a PCR, the hospital stats are the only ones we need now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 12, 2022, 04:56:29 PM
Yeah I'd agree.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 12, 2022, 07:56:01 PM
Heres that unvaccinated Doctor who was speaking to the Sajid Javid the other day getting interviewed by Freddie Sayer from UnHerd

Dr Steve James: I'd sacrifice my job over vaccine mandates
https://youtu.be/4Ik6cxFBbBw (https://youtu.be/4Ik6cxFBbBw)

I'd be fairly certain he's not stupid or an idiot so try to keep an open mind folks and give it a listen (lots of areas we can all agree on I think). Interested in your thoughts
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 12, 2022, 08:04:49 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 12, 2022, 07:56:01 PM
Heres that unvaccinated Doctor who was speaking to the Sajid Javid the other day getting interviewed by Freddie Sayer from UnHerd

Dr Steve James: I'd sacrifice my job over vaccine mandates
https://youtu.be/4Ik6cxFBbBw (https://youtu.be/4Ik6cxFBbBw)

I'd be fairly certain he's not stupid or an idiot so try to keep an open mind folks and give it a listen (lots of areas we can all agree on I think). Interested in your thoughts
The same lad has a (private) clinic, The Breathlessness Clinic charging >£400 an hour, so wouldn't want to be promoting anything, such as a vaccine, that stems a flow of patients referred on by respiratory consultants. Next.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 12, 2022, 08:17:12 PM
Your irony detector on the blink Tony?

Take your blinkers off and at least give it a listen before poo pooing it.

"This ad was brought to you by Pfizer"  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 12, 2022, 08:42:43 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 12, 2022, 08:17:12 PM
Your irony detector on the blink Tony?

Take your blinkers off and at least give it a listen before poo pooing it.

"This ad was brought to you by Pfizer"  ::)

says the lad listening to this Dr. but not the majority of others, regulators etc. who are believe people should be taking the vaccine...

Unherd I've had the unfortune of coming across them before when writing hit pieces on Sally Rooney for her principled stance on BDS and Israel... right wing trash

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 12, 2022, 08:43:26 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 12, 2022, 08:04:49 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 12, 2022, 07:56:01 PM
Heres that unvaccinated Doctor who was speaking to the Sajid Javid the other day getting interviewed by Freddie Sayer from UnHerd

Dr Steve James: I'd sacrifice my job over vaccine mandates
https://youtu.be/4Ik6cxFBbBw (https://youtu.be/4Ik6cxFBbBw)

I'd be fairly certain he's not stupid or an idiot so try to keep an open mind folks and give it a listen (lots of areas we can all agree on I think). Interested in your thoughts
The same lad has a (private) clinic, The Breathlessness Clinic charging >£400 an hour, so wouldn't want to be promoting anything, such as a vaccine, that stems a flow of patients referred on by respiratory consultants. Next.

Double jobbing consultants is par for the course these days
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 12, 2022, 08:52:39 PM
That interview made me laugh too. I mean how did the conspiracy driven MSM allow someone to be heard speaking against the vaccine...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 12, 2022, 09:18:43 PM
That's Big Pharma letting it look like dissenting voices are slipping through the cracks, just so people can dismiss the Big Pharma narrative.  Classic false flag stuff. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 12, 2022, 09:43:59 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 12, 2022, 07:56:01 PM
Heres that unvaccinated Doctor who was speaking to the Sajid Javid the other day getting interviewed by Freddie Sayer from UnHerd

Dr Steve James: I'd sacrifice my job over vaccine mandates
https://youtu.be/4Ik6cxFBbBw (https://youtu.be/4Ik6cxFBbBw)

I'd be fairly certain he's not stupid or an idiot so try to keep an open mind folks and give it a listen (lots of areas we can all agree on I think). Interested in your thoughts

Didn't listen to it all but he sounds a very reasonable man , he is close to my own position. I am not an anti vaxxer at all btw just think it should be tailored more to high risk groups . I think the strongest arguement now for the vaccine in those under 50 lets say is to avoid absenteeism. I can't see us getting above 60 percent boostered in NI
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on January 12, 2022, 09:52:18 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 12, 2022, 09:39:44 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 11, 2022, 09:50:20 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on January 11, 2022, 09:45:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 08:43:52 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 11, 2022, 04:45:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 11, 2022, 03:30:28 PM
What's the limit on numbers for indoor venues in the South?
Without checking...  think it's lesser of 50% of seated capacity or 1,000, all out by 8pm.

Is that a continuous reviewing I take it?

Heading to Bord Gais late February it's capacity is 2111! Fingers crossed, would hate to leave her outside  ;D

Until 31st January. Should be increased by late February I'd imagine.

I'd say they will just add on the full month!!

I'd say that all depends on how the new 'close contact' rule pans out. If numbers remain high then they probably will.  :-\

Reported tonight that restrictions could be eased in early February. 700 fewer in hospital compared to this time last year and half the amount of people in ICU.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: ONeill on January 12, 2022, 09:59:57 PM
Barring another sneaky variant, I think we'll be well on the way to normality by Easter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 12, 2022, 11:04:45 PM
Quote from: ONeill on January 12, 2022, 09:59:57 PM
Barring another sneaky variant, I think we'll be well on the way to normality by Easter.
Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on January 12, 2022, 11:05:22 PM
Quote from: ONeill on January 12, 2022, 09:59:57 PM
Barring another sneaky variant, I think we'll be well on the way to normality by Easter.

The lockdown addicts won't be happy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on January 12, 2022, 11:32:07 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 12, 2022, 11:05:22 PM
Quote from: ONeill on January 12, 2022, 09:59:57 PM
Barring another sneaky variant, I think we'll be well on the way to normality by Easter.

The lockdown addicts won't be happy
The ISAG chaps and their devoted followers will lay ostrich eggs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 13, 2022, 12:07:06 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 12, 2022, 09:43:59 PM
Didn't listen to it all but he sounds a very reasonable man , he is close to my own position. I am not an anti vaxxer at all btw just think it should be tailored more to high risk groups

I really can't understand why folk aren't willing to concede even to a small degree that this is a valid enough argument for an individual to make given what we now know.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 13, 2022, 07:04:45 AM
Omnicron was unknown a month ago but now with ICU numbers falling in many countries it's much less of a worry.
The problem is that Covid is well established in poorer countries where public health is weak and will be back again with more iterations.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 13, 2022, 11:12:37 PM
Family in neighbourhood have Omicron. Last member (21) had yet to get virus. Father said they were isolating him from the rest of the family so he could get the booster.  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Man Marker on January 14, 2022, 09:40:23 AM
As someone not massively into this, I seen a video of the the CEO of Pfizer saying the first two vaccines weren't effective against omicron but the booster would be (thats in my own words) Is it genuine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 14, 2022, 09:45:07 AM
Quote from: Man Marker on January 14, 2022, 09:40:23 AM
As someone not massively into this, I seen a video of the the CEO of Pfizer saying the first two vaccines weren't effective against omicron but the booster would be (thats in my own words) Is it genuine?
Yeah and next month it'll be the omega variant you need 4 jabs from...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 14, 2022, 09:47:59 AM
Yeah because the omicron variant has subsequently been proved to be made up and not spike cases at all eh  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on January 14, 2022, 10:03:27 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 14, 2022, 09:45:07 AM
Quote from: Man Marker on January 14, 2022, 09:40:23 AM
As someone not massively into this, I seen a video of the the CEO of Pfizer saying the first two vaccines weren't effective against omicron but the booster would be (thats in my own words) Is it genuine?
Yeah and next month it'll be the omega variant you need 4 jabs from...

If it's the Omega variant they'll be at the last letter so there'll be no more. :D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 14, 2022, 10:15:11 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 14, 2022, 09:45:07 AM
Quote from: Man Marker on January 14, 2022, 09:40:23 AM
As someone not massively into this, I seen a video of the the CEO of Pfizer saying the first two vaccines weren't effective against omicron but the booster would be (thats in my own words) Is it genuine?
Yeah and next month it'll be the omega variant you need 4 jabs from...

Do you think it's made up?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 14, 2022, 12:32:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2022, 07:04:45 AM
Omnicron was unknown a month ago but now with ICU numbers falling in many countries it's much less of a worry.
The problem is that Covid is well established in poorer countries where public health is weak and will be back again with more iterations.

Nah - very unlikely.

At this point, it'd essentially be a new virus if it were to cause a significant disruption to the current trajectory.

Omicron will over the next month or two give almost everyone immunity - including the anti-vax hold outs.
That immunity will be close enough to be effective* against any other SARS-CoV-2 variant.
Furthermore, since it seems to come back on people fairly quickly - like a cold - the constant reserve of it in the community will by and by large keep immune systems fresh with it.

Get the NHS out of the woods (by flattening peak), then get rid of all local restrictions. At that point, they'll do more harm than good - we want to keep Omicron circulating in some shape/form when everyone has a good immune response to it. Probably prudent to keep an eye on international gateways, but not likely to be an issue.


*effective in this case = bringing down rates of serious illness/fatalities to those of similar infections.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 14, 2022, 12:41:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 14, 2022, 10:15:11 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 14, 2022, 09:45:07 AM
Quote from: Man Marker on January 14, 2022, 09:40:23 AM
As someone not massively into this, I seen a video of the the CEO of Pfizer saying the first two vaccines weren't effective against omicron but the booster would be (thats in my own words) Is it genuine?
Yeah and next month it'll be the omega variant you need 4 jabs from...

Do you think it's made up?

He's wondering why Omicron was even allowed into the country... Borders should have been shut down to those pesky Johnny Foreigner viruses
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on January 14, 2022, 12:51:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 14, 2022, 12:32:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2022, 07:04:45 AM
Omnicron was unknown a month ago but now with ICU numbers falling in many countries it's much less of a worry.
The problem is that Covid is well established in poorer countries where public health is weak and will be back again with more iterations.

Nah - very unlikely.

At this point, it'd essentially be a new virus if it were to cause a significant disruption to the current trajectory.

Omicron will over the next month or two give almost everyone immunity - including the anti-vax hold outs.
That immunity will be close enough to be effective* against any other SARS-CoV-2 variant.
Furthermore, since it seems to come back on people fairly quickly - like a cold - the constant reserve of it in the community will by and by large keep immune systems fresh with it.

Get the NHS out of the woods (by flattening peak), then get rid of all local restrictions. At that point, they'll do more harm than good - we want to keep Omicron circulating in some shape/form when everyone has a good immune response to it. Probably prudent to keep an eye on international gateways, but not likely to be an issue.


*effective in this case = bringing down rates of serious illness/fatalities to those of similar infections.

Radio, I really hope you are a secret infectious disease expert and everything you have said here is true.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 14, 2022, 12:52:53 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on January 14, 2022, 12:51:19 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 14, 2022, 12:32:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2022, 07:04:45 AM
Omnicron was unknown a month ago but now with ICU numbers falling in many countries it's much less of a worry.
The problem is that Covid is well established in poorer countries where public health is weak and will be back again with more iterations.

Nah - very unlikely.

At this point, it'd essentially be a new virus if it were to cause a significant disruption to the current trajectory.

Omicron will over the next month or two give almost everyone immunity - including the anti-vax hold outs.
That immunity will be close enough to be effective* against any other SARS-CoV-2 variant.
Furthermore, since it seems to come back on people fairly quickly - like a cold - the constant reserve of it in the community will by and by large keep immune systems fresh with it.

Get the NHS out of the woods (by flattening peak), then get rid of all local restrictions. At that point, they'll do more harm than good - we want to keep Omicron circulating in some shape/form when everyone has a good immune response to it. Probably prudent to keep an eye on international gateways, but not likely to be an issue.


*effective in this case = bringing down rates of serious illness/fatalities to those of similar infections.

Radio, I really hope you are a secret infectious disease expert and everything you have said here is true.

He's been a great read from the start has RadioGaaGaa, very measured and insightful
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 14, 2022, 12:55:05 PM
A friend of mine says the exact same as above as he's very well qualified to say it too so I would believe the above.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2022, 01:35:48 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 14, 2022, 12:55:05 PM
A friend of mine says the exact same as above as he's very well qualified to say it too so I would believe the above.

If only Angelo could give us a view on it from his mate.... oh wait
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 14, 2022, 01:53:11 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on January 14, 2022, 09:40:23 AM
As someone not massively into this, I seen a video of the the CEO of Pfizer saying the first two vaccines weren't effective against omicron but the booster would be (thats in my own words) Is it genuine?

I'm not sure of the specific video, would it be in relation to the new Omnicron specific vaccine they are developing(due for release in March). 
  They are also considering blending this new vaccine with the original for an extra boost

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fortune.com/2022/01/10/pfizer-hybrid-covid-vaccine-omicron-variant-biontech-booster/amp/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 14, 2022, 02:27:16 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 14, 2022, 12:32:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2022, 07:04:45 AM
Omnicron was unknown a month ago but now with ICU numbers falling in many countries it's much less of a worry.
The problem is that Covid is well established in poorer countries where public health is weak and will be back again with more iterations.

Nah - very unlikely.

At this point, it'd essentially be a new virus if it were to cause a significant disruption to the current trajectory.

Omicron will over the next month or two give almost everyone immunity - including the anti-vax hold outs.
That immunity will be close enough to be effective* against any other SARS-CoV-2 variant.
Furthermore, since it seems to come back on people fairly quickly - like a cold - the constant reserve of it in the community will by and by large keep immune systems fresh with it.

Get the NHS out of the woods (by flattening peak), then get rid of all local restrictions. At that point, they'll do more harm than good - we want to keep Omicron circulating in some shape/form when everyone has a good immune response to it. Probably prudent to keep an eye on international gateways, but not likely to be an issue.


*effective in this case = bringing down rates of serious illness/fatalities to those of similar infections.

Sounds brilliant and I hope it works out like that. I was reading something the other day though which makes me think it is unlikely. The problem is that Covid doesn't work in the same way as the flu. Each iteration of the flu evolves from the last one. With Covid it's not working out like that. Variants are emerging around the world but not necessarily as an iteration of the previous one eg omicron didn't evolve from delta. What that means is that the next variant to come along could be a lot more lethal than omicron and just as infectious or it could be even less dangerous. At this stage nobody knows and it will basically come down to luck.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 14, 2022, 02:37:44 PM
I see Alphonso Davies from Bayern has had to take time off from playing as he's got myocarditis after getting Covid in December. This was probably only picked up because he's a footballer and getting regular checks. The anti vaccine brigade keep pushing this as a major side effect of the vaccine but they don't like getting it pointed out that it's at least 4 times more likely to happen if you get Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 14, 2022, 03:41:13 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 14, 2022, 12:32:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2022, 07:04:45 AM
Omnicron was unknown a month ago but now with ICU numbers falling in many countries it's much less of a worry.
The problem is that Covid is well established in poorer countries where public health is weak and will be back again with more iterations.

Nah - very unlikely.

At this point, it'd essentially be a new virus if it were to cause a significant disruption to the current trajectory.

Omicron will over the next month or two give almost everyone immunity - including the anti-vax hold outs.
That immunity will be close enough to be effective* against any other SARS-CoV-2 variant.
Furthermore, since it seems to come back on people fairly quickly - like a cold - the constant reserve of it in the community will by and by large keep immune systems fresh with it.

Get the NHS out of the woods (by flattening peak), then get rid of all local restrictions. At that point, they'll do more harm than good - we want to keep Omicron circulating in some shape/form when everyone has a good immune response to it. Probably prudent to keep an eye on international gateways, but not likely to be an issue.


*effective in this case = bringing down rates of serious illness/fatalities to those of similar infections.
That all makes sense, let's hope thats how it plays out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 14, 2022, 03:42:18 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 14, 2022, 02:37:44 PM
I see Alphonso Davies from Bayern has had to take time off from playing as he's got myocarditis after getting Covid in December. This was probably only picked up because he's a footballer and getting regular checks. The anti vaccine brigade keep pushing this as a major side effect of the vaccine but they don't like getting it pointed out that it's at least 4 times more likely to happen if you get Covid.
Only playing devils advocate here, but has he not got the vaccine? The anti vaxxers will blame it on that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 14, 2022, 03:51:26 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 14, 2022, 02:37:44 PM
I see Alphonso Davies from Bayern has had to take time off from playing as he's got myocarditis after getting Covid in December. This was probably only picked up because he's a footballer and getting regular checks. The anti vaccine brigade keep pushing this as a major side effect of the vaccine but they don't like getting it pointed out that it's at least 4 times more likely to happen if you get Covid.

Like that idiot Joe Rogan the other day - https://twitter.com/FullContactMTWF/status/1481638689415462916
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 14, 2022, 03:54:46 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 14, 2022, 03:51:26 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 14, 2022, 02:37:44 PM
I see Alphonso Davies from Bayern has had to take time off from playing as he's got myocarditis after getting Covid in December. This was probably only picked up because he's a footballer and getting regular checks. The anti vaccine brigade keep pushing this as a major side effect of the vaccine but they don't like getting it pointed out that it's at least 4 times more likely to happen if you get Covid.

Like that idiot Joe Rogan the other day - https://twitter.com/FullContactMTWF/status/1481638689415462916
idiot ? Guy has biggest podcast out there , when are you starting your podcast.   keep it low in ardboe
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 14, 2022, 03:57:43 PM
Yes - that idiot Joe Rogan
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on January 14, 2022, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 14, 2022, 03:57:43 PM
Yes - that idiot Joe Rogan
Thankfully he had a guest that not only called him out on his nonsense, but proved it straight away!

Joe's a typical anti-vaxxer, in that he believes all the stats about vaccine side effects, but believes none of the stats about vaccines working and the negative effects of Covid, even when the stats all come from the same place!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 14, 2022, 04:04:53 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 14, 2022, 03:57:43 PM
Yes - that idiot Joe Rogan

Complete and utter clown
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 14, 2022, 04:09:40 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 14, 2022, 03:54:46 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 14, 2022, 03:51:26 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 14, 2022, 02:37:44 PM
I see Alphonso Davies from Bayern has had to take time off from playing as he's got myocarditis after getting Covid in December. This was probably only picked up because he's a footballer and getting regular checks. The anti vaccine brigade keep pushing this as a major side effect of the vaccine but they don't like getting it pointed out that it's at least 4 times more likely to happen if you get Covid.

Like that idiot Joe Rogan the other day - https://twitter.com/FullContactMTWF/status/1481638689415462916
idiot ? Guy has biggest podcast out there , when are you starting your podcast.   keep it low in ardboe

Plenty of people voted for Borris or listen to Nolan...... doesn't make either of them less of an idiot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 14, 2022, 04:25:06 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 14, 2022, 04:04:53 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 14, 2022, 03:57:43 PM
Yes - that idiot Joe Rogan

Complete and utter clown
Thats a bit over the top lad. He takes a position that he is always prepared to change his opinion if with presented with a better argument and be nice to people. His show certainly is not an echo chamber.   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 14, 2022, 05:18:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 14, 2022, 03:42:18 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 14, 2022, 02:37:44 PM
I see Alphonso Davies from Bayern has had to take time off from playing as he's got myocarditis after getting Covid in December. This was probably only picked up because he's a footballer and getting regular checks. The anti vaccine brigade keep pushing this as a major side effect of the vaccine but they don't like getting it pointed out that it's at least 4 times more likely to happen if you get Covid.
Only playing devils advocate here, but has he not got the vaccine? The anti vaxxers will blame it on that.

You'd be a very stupid advocate then. He got his vaccine pre season in July. He's played all season without a problem with all the regular checks and monitoring they do at top level professional clubs. He got Covid in December and when he tried to return to playing and training he was getting pains in his chest.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 14, 2022, 06:12:34 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 14, 2022, 05:18:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 14, 2022, 03:42:18 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 14, 2022, 02:37:44 PM
I see Alphonso Davies from Bayern has had to take time off from playing as he's got myocarditis after getting Covid in December. This was probably only picked up because he's a footballer and getting regular checks. The anti vaccine brigade keep pushing this as a major side effect of the vaccine but they don't like getting it pointed out that it's at least 4 times more likely to happen if you get Covid.
Only playing devils advocate here, but has he not got the vaccine? The anti vaxxers will blame it on that.

You'd be a very stupid advocate then. He got his vaccine pre season in July. He's played all season without a problem with all the regular checks and monitoring they do at top level professional clubs. He got Covid in December and when he tried to return to playing and training he was getting pains in his chest.

Probably mixture of vaccine and Covid then lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 14, 2022, 06:15:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 14, 2022, 03:54:46 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 14, 2022, 03:51:26 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 14, 2022, 02:37:44 PM
I see Alphonso Davies from Bayern has had to take time off from playing as he's got myocarditis after getting Covid in December. This was probably only picked up because he's a footballer and getting regular checks. The anti vaccine brigade keep pushing this as a major side effect of the vaccine but they don't like getting it pointed out that it's at least 4 times more likely to happen if you get Covid.

Like that idiot Joe Rogan the other day - https://twitter.com/FullContactMTWF/status/1481638689415462916
idiot ? Guy has biggest podcast out there , when are you starting your podcast.   keep it low in ardboe

In the words of the great Super Hans

"People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people Jez."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Taylor on January 14, 2022, 07:54:05 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 14, 2022, 12:32:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 13, 2022, 07:04:45 AM
Omnicron was unknown a month ago but now with ICU numbers falling in many countries it's much less of a worry.
The problem is that Covid is well established in poorer countries where public health is weak and will be back again with more iterations.

Nah - very unlikely.

At this point, it'd essentially be a new virus if it were to cause a significant disruption to the current trajectory.

Omicron will over the next month or two give almost everyone immunity - including the anti-vax hold outs.
That immunity will be close enough to be effective* against any other SARS-CoV-2 variant.
Furthermore, since it seems to come back on people fairly quickly - like a cold - the constant reserve of it in the community will by and by large keep immune systems fresh with it.

Get the NHS out of the woods (by flattening peak), then get rid of all local restrictions. At that point, they'll do more harm than good - we want to keep Omicron circulating in some shape/form when everyone has a good immune response to it. Probably prudent to keep an eye on international gateways, but not likely to be an issue.


*effective in this case = bringing down rates of serious illness/fatalities to those of similar infections.

Have followed your comments from the start Radio and to be fair you have been there or thereabouts on most things you have said.

Good enough for me.

So the home straight is in sight?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 14, 2022, 08:32:56 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 14, 2022, 05:18:48 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 14, 2022, 03:42:18 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 14, 2022, 02:37:44 PM
I see Alphonso Davies from Bayern has had to take time off from playing as he's got myocarditis after getting Covid in December. This was probably only picked up because he's a footballer and getting regular checks. The anti vaccine brigade keep pushing this as a major side effect of the vaccine but they don't like getting it pointed out that it's at least 4 times more likely to happen if you get Covid.
Only playing devils advocate here, but has he not got the vaccine? The anti vaxxers will blame it on that.

You'd be a very stupid advocate then. He got his vaccine pre season in July. He's played all season without a problem with all the regular checks and monitoring they do at top level professional clubs. He got Covid in December and when he tried to return to playing and training he was getting pains in his chest.

Aubamayang out too with heart issues after Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 14, 2022, 08:54:54 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 14, 2022, 02:27:16 PM
Sounds brilliant and I hope it works out like that. I was reading something the other day though which makes me think it is unlikely. The problem is that Covid doesn't work in the same way as the flu. Each iteration of the flu evolves from the last one. With Covid it's not working out like that. Variants are emerging around the world but not necessarily as an iteration of the previous one eg omicron didn't evolve from delta. What that means is that the next variant to come along could be a lot more lethal than omicron and just as infectious or it could be even less dangerous. At this stage nobody knows and it will basically come down to luck.

There are four other (7 known in total, leaving aside SARS1 and MERS for now) coronavirus that transmit in humans, these are:

HCoV-NL63   
HCoV-229E
HCoV-OC43
HKU1

SARS-CoV-2 will go the same way as the above. Its what they do. The above 4 will all have variants being produced all the time, but luckily our immune system is largely able to recognise, adapt to any variations and deal with them.


Its probably worth bearing in mind that evolutionary pressure is on the virus to move up out of our lungs and reside more in our throat/nose - Omicron case in point - several reasons. Two of which are:
(i) a cough or sneeze will see more particles spread better if its only travelling from the back of our throat rather than from deep in the lungs - which would tend to line our airways with most of the viral particles.
(ii) someone who is not badly affected is in a better position to socialise and encounter other people to pass the thing onto.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 14, 2022, 09:20:50 PM
Quote from: Taylor on January 14, 2022, 07:54:05 PM
So the home straight is in sight?

Hopefully.

(Very) far from infallible of course, so you could all be laughing at my stupidity in a few weeks.

Well... prob not laughing as it'll mean we'll have more of the f**king restrictions to deal with.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 14, 2022, 09:54:49 PM
It tallies with what a friend of mine said to me the other day and tbh he knows his stuff. (Not from reading it on Facebook but his job). I trust him and hope you are both right!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 14, 2022, 11:12:21 PM
The EMA official raised concerns that a strategy of giving boosters every four months hypothetically poses the risk of overloading people's immune systems and leading to fatigue in the population.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/eu-drug-regulator-says-more-data-needed-impact-omicron-vaccines-2022-01-11/ (https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/eu-drug-regulator-says-more-data-needed-impact-omicron-vaccines-2022-01-11/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 15, 2022, 06:34:57 AM
https://www.ft.com/content/42c5ff3d-e676-4076-9b9f-7243a00cba5e

Omicron's 50 genetic changes include more than 30 on the spike protein, the exposed part of the virus that binds with human cells. Scientists expect these changes to make it more transmissible than the dominant Delta variant and more likely to evade the immune protection provided by vaccines or previous infection.

Omicron required a booster because it is so different to Delta. The vaccines only gave around 70% coverage.
The next variant may not be so different.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 15, 2022, 05:13:03 PM
Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang has been diagnosed with heart lesions after recovering from Covid-19 at the Africa Cup of Nations. The Arsenal forward was ruled out of Gabon's 1-1 draw against Ghana on Friday.

The "cardiac lesions" were found in a check by Confederation of African Football (CAF) medical officials, the Gabonese FA said in a statement. Officials examined Aubameyang after he returned following a positive Covid test. Two of his Gabon teammates, forward Axel Meyé and midfielder Mario Lemina, were both also found to have the same issue.

Joe public isn't going through these extensive tests when they "get over" covid. Covid is going to leave a long lasting legacy and devastating impact on our health services and peoples health.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 15, 2022, 06:09:36 PM
Plenty of work for the scientists! This is not a 1 size fits all. The risk factors have to be distilled further.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 15, 2022, 07:11:41 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 15, 2022, 06:34:57 AM
Omicron required a booster because it is so different to Delta. The vaccines only gave around 70% coverage.
The next variant may not be so different.

Omicron up near our throats will always out-compete a variant that goes deeper into our lungs (and would hence be more dangerous)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on January 15, 2022, 07:19:12 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 15, 2022, 05:13:03 PM
Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang has been diagnosed with heart lesions after recovering from Covid-19 at the Africa Cup of Nations. The Arsenal forward was ruled out of Gabon's 1-1 draw against Ghana on Friday.

The "cardiac lesions" were found in a check by Confederation of African Football (CAF) medical officials, the Gabonese FA said in a statement. Officials examined Aubameyang after he returned following a positive Covid test. Two of his Gabon teammates, forward Axel Meyé and midfielder Mario Lemina, were both also found to have the same issue.

Joe public isn't going through these extensive tests when they "get over" covid. Covid is going to leave a long lasting legacy and devastating impact on our health services and peoples health.

Maybe not but I'm sure many other professional athletes , who had Covid , had them as well and nothing detected. Typical Scaremongering nonsense !!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 19, 2022, 07:37:58 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 05, 2022, 06:40:12 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 05, 2022, 05:24:39 PM
Absenteeism at work at 30% since we started back. I heard on news 8k teachers out with covid out of 27k nationwide in Republic which is also around 30%. Expected to get worse so not sure how the country stays open in these circumstances.

Probably by reducing isolation period further, watch this space

Reducing to 5 then
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 19, 2022, 08:16:19 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on January 15, 2022, 07:19:12 PM
Maybe not but I'm sure many other professional athletes , who had Covid , had them as well and nothing detected. Typical Scaremongering nonsense !!

I'm sure you are right. But if half the people get Omicron and 2% of them have problems then 1% of the population has a long term issue and that would represent a significant increase in demand for medical services. I am not sure what the numbers really are, but neither are you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on January 19, 2022, 09:15:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 19, 2022, 08:16:19 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on January 15, 2022, 07:19:12 PM
Maybe not but I'm sure many other professional athletes , who had Covid , had them as well and nothing detected. Typical Scaremongering nonsense !!

I'm sure you are right. But if half the people get Omicron and 2% of them have problems then 1% of the population has a long term issue and that would represent a significant increase in demand for medical services. I am not sure what the numbers really are, but neither are you.

If ......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 20, 2022, 01:08:33 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/eadd09d2-4617-456c-b97f-8ce970a345b9

With some of his critics in the party pushing for a vote of no confidence in him, Johnson attempted to rally support by ending all remaining Covid restrictions in England, including mandatory face masks and working from home guidance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 20, 2022, 10:42:40 PM
Not a word about the lifting of restrictions and Covid passes ?
Will be a happy day when it happens here
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on January 20, 2022, 10:48:06 PM
Stormont basically closed out the Covid chapter today for us up here.

Good riddance.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 20, 2022, 11:51:35 PM
Freedom of information revelation

https://youtu.be/9UHvwWWcjYw (https://youtu.be/9UHvwWWcjYw)

Deaths from COVID-19 with no other underlying causes
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsfromcovid19withnootherunderlyingcauses?s=09 (https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsfromcovid19withnootherunderlyingcauses?s=09)

127,704 excess deaths above the five-year average

Total deaths from covid alone -  17,371   ???
    Of this number 13,597 were 65 or over
    Of this number, 3,774 were under 65

Average age of death in UK from covid in 2021 - 82.5 years (which is higher than the average life expectancy in the UK)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on January 21, 2022, 07:50:58 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 20, 2022, 10:48:06 PM
Stormont basically closed out the Covid chapter today for us up here.

Good riddance.

Lot of lockdown addicts not happy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 21, 2022, 08:03:43 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 21, 2022, 07:50:58 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 20, 2022, 10:48:06 PM
Stormont basically closed out the Covid chapter today for us up here.

Good riddance.

Lot of lockdown addicts not happy

Do you know many?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on January 21, 2022, 09:19:33 AM
£10 million on the covid pass scheme was a complete waste of money to be really only used for a few weeks. it would obviously have been better spent elsewhere.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on January 21, 2022, 09:51:52 AM
I heard our local pharmacy is ceasing covid vaccinations from 1st February, would that be the same elsewhere?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lurganblue on January 21, 2022, 10:10:01 AM
Did i see there is a meeting in the South today about lifting restrictions?  Hopefully full steam ahead for the National League now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 21, 2022, 10:31:29 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on January 21, 2022, 10:10:01 AM
Did i see there is a meeting in the South today about lifting restrictions?  Hopefully full steam ahead for the National League now.
Supposed to be announcing something today as far as I know? Even NPHET have given the go ahead...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 21, 2022, 10:50:47 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 20, 2022, 11:51:35 PM
Freedom of information revelation

https://youtu.be/9UHvwWWcjYw (https://youtu.be/9UHvwWWcjYw)

Deaths from COVID-19 with no other underlying causes
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsfromcovid19withnootherunderlyingcauses?s=09 (https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathsfromcovid19withnootherunderlyingcauses?s=09)

127,704 excess deaths above the five-year average

Total deaths from covid alone -  17,371   ???
    Of this number 13,597 were 65 or over
    Of this number, 3,774 were under 65

Average age of death in UK from covid in 2021 - 82.5 years (which is higher than the average life expectancy in the UK)

spoofer....no revelations... these type of FOI discussed on here before....it appeared all information is available without the foi request anyway.  comparing apples and oranges with figures and then at the end saying he has got any further in his thinking than its interesting...

. he also has a pop at MSM for not reporting something that really isn't worth reporting on too much and I've seen articles on different methods of looking at the levels of death so it's not under reported either....

if you have an opinion Skull share it... stop posting this rubbish... if you are challenged on your opinions then back it up but posting links etc. and  taking the "I'm just asking questions approach"  to me is saying I'm into conspiracies but afraid to say it our loud as I know how nuts it will seem..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 21, 2022, 11:01:22 AM
.https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-to-approve-lifting-of-almost-all-covid-19-restrictions-today-1.4781910

Capacity restrictions for indoor and outdoor events are also set to be removed, meaning the Six Nations rugby games in February and March can go ahead with full capacity crowds.

Some Government sources expressed surprise that the recommendations went further than many expected, with one saying they represented a significant acceleration on the path out of the pandemic.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 21, 2022, 11:24:44 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on January 21, 2022, 10:10:01 AM
Did i see there is a meeting in the South today about lifting restrictions?  Hopefully full steam ahead for the National League now.
NPHET apparently recommending lifting of nearly all restrictions except masks in retail and public transport.
Up to Government to decide timelines etc.
National Leagues should be OK.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 21, 2022, 11:33:06 AM
I really didn't expect the easing of restrictions to be as rapid as has been done here north or south. I get in England as Boris is just trying to save his ass.

Six nations, national leagues etc be ok.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 21, 2022, 11:35:21 AM
I'd say its a revelation to the vast majority of people PHP.

Whilst there may have been some segments in news programming which have discussed some of those details (happy to take your word for that as your not a spoofer  ::)), it never has shaped any part of the common main stream narrative. Surely you'd agree thats a fair statement?

It poses interesting questions for some, me included (not you and thats fine ... we're all different and I respect that)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 21, 2022, 11:46:16 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 21, 2022, 11:35:21 AM
I'd say its a revelation to the vast majority of people PHP.

Whilst there may have been some segments in news programming which have discussed some of those details (happy to take your word for that as your not a spoofer  ::)), it never has shaped any part of the common main stream narrative. Surely you'd agree thats a fair statement?

It poses interesting questions for some, me included (not you and thats fine ... we're all different and I respect that)

Have you looked into how many death certs. reference  only one cause of death generally? why did the spoofer not look into this?

what interesting questions does it pose for you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 21, 2022, 12:09:11 PM
You'll turn into Angelo if you get it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on January 21, 2022, 12:13:01 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 12:03:51 PM
Anyone here have thon booster jab? Got a text there telling to get it heard it leaves a brave few people in bad oul shape.
\

Got it, felt grand after it, not even a sore arm.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 21, 2022, 12:18:41 PM
Quotewhat interesting questions does it pose for you?

Not sure how anyone can be so certain about what they believe these days.
Truth be told we're all groping in the dark.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 21, 2022, 12:42:46 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 12:03:51 PM
Anyone here have thon booster jab? Got a text there telling to get it heard it leaves a brave few people in bad oul shape.

You'll be fine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 21, 2022, 12:45:20 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 12:03:51 PM
Anyone here have thon booster jab? Got a text there telling to get it heard it leaves a brave few people in bad oul shape.
A text? I don't know of a single person who felt anything more than a sore arm or bit of a sore head. I had zero after effects.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 21, 2022, 12:46:45 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 21, 2022, 11:33:06 AM
I really didn't expect the easing of restrictions to be as rapid as has been done here north or south. I get in England as Boris is just trying to save his ass.

Six nations, national leagues etc be ok.
What will the anti-vaxxers moan about now? Some of them might find their days are a little empty.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: laoislad on January 21, 2022, 12:51:05 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 12:03:51 PM
Anyone here have thon booster jab? Got a text there telling to get it heard it leaves a brave few people in bad oul shape.
Felt shite for a full day after it. Was like a very bad hangover. Was grand though the next day.
Got that text from the HSE also but had already got my booster at that stage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 21, 2022, 12:59:12 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 21, 2022, 12:45:20 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 12:03:51 PM
Anyone here have thon booster jab? Got a text there telling to get it heard it leaves a brave few people in bad oul shape.
A text? I don't know of a single person who felt anything more than a sore arm or bit of a sore head. I had zero after effects.

The 5G works better also
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 21, 2022, 12:59:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 21, 2022, 11:33:06 AM
I really didn't expect the easing of restrictions to be as rapid as has been done here north or south. I get in England as Boris is just trying to save his ass.

Six nations, national leagues etc be ok.
Maybe not as rapid given the cautious nature of the government over the last two years but the situation in hospitals currently has the numbers one would expect for the flu in any January. With this approach we and England as basically tackling Covid-19 as any other endemic respiratory virus like seasonal flu now and a successful vaccine roll out and less severe variant has greatly helped.


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on January 21, 2022, 01:07:08 PM
Quote from: laoislad on January 21, 2022, 12:51:05 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 12:03:51 PM
Anyone here have thon booster jab? Got a text there telling to get it heard it leaves a brave few people in bad oul shape.
Felt shite for a full day after it. Was like a very bad hangover. Was grand though the next day.
Got that text from the HSE also but had already got my booster at that stage.

Yip same as that and most people I know have been the same. I had no side effects from the 1st two. A dirty hangover is the best description of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on January 21, 2022, 01:16:07 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 21, 2022, 12:46:45 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 21, 2022, 11:33:06 AM
I really didn't expect the easing of restrictions to be as rapid as has been done here north or south. I get in England as Boris is just trying to save his ass.

Six nations, national leagues etc be ok.
What will the anti-vaxxers moan about now? Some of them might find their days are a little empty.

Climate change
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on January 21, 2022, 01:53:03 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 01:50:55 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 21, 2022, 01:07:08 PM
Quote from: laoislad on January 21, 2022, 12:51:05 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 12:03:51 PM
Anyone here have thon booster jab? Got a text there telling to get it heard it leaves a brave few people in bad oul shape.
Felt shite for a full day after it. Was like a very bad hangover. Was grand though the next day.
Got that text from the HSE also but had already got my booster at that stage.

Yip same as that and most people I know have been the same. I had no side effects from the 1st two. A dirty hangover is the best description of it.
Cheers men for the advice on the booster jab. It seems fine but I'm not going to risk it. If I wanted a hangover I'd just go to the pub

What risk is there if you've already had the other two?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 21, 2022, 02:05:51 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 21, 2022, 12:18:41 PM
Quotewhat interesting questions does it pose for you?

Not sure how anyone can be so certain about what they believe these days.
Truth be told we're all groping in the dark.

Get information from reputable sources..... you seem have no problem believing ring wing Americans and spoofers on YouTube with the links you have posted... you posted a link to a reuters article recently from the WHO which was about more regular boosters... seems you were happy to take acceot their advice when it suits...

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 21, 2022, 02:33:07 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 01:50:55 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 21, 2022, 01:07:08 PM
Quote from: laoislad on January 21, 2022, 12:51:05 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 12:03:51 PM
Anyone here have thon booster jab? Got a text there telling to get it heard it leaves a brave few people in bad oul shape.
Felt shite for a full day after it. Was like a very bad hangover. Was grand though the next day.
Got that text from the HSE also but had already got my booster at that stage.

Yip same as that and most people I know have been the same. I had no side effects from the 1st two. A dirty hangover is the best description of it.
Cheers men for the advice on the booster jab. It seems fine but I'm not going to risk it. If I wanted a hangover I'd just go to the pub

The side effects are very mild, in fact a study has shown that most people only have symptoms from a placebo effect ie they're expecting to have them. They're much milder and shorter lasting than even a mild bout of Covid. It's madness not to get it when it's free and so protective.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 21, 2022, 03:06:53 PM
Question everything I say
https://youtu.be/Q48G1kiMe3Y   (https://youtu.be/Q48G1kiMe3Y)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 21, 2022, 03:07:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 21, 2022, 01:53:03 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 01:50:55 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 21, 2022, 01:07:08 PM
Quote from: laoislad on January 21, 2022, 12:51:05 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 12:03:51 PM
Anyone here have thon booster jab? Got a text there telling to get it heard it leaves a brave few people in bad oul shape.
Felt shite for a full day after it. Was like a very bad hangover. Was grand though the next day.
Got that text from the HSE also but had already got my booster at that stage.

Yip same as that and most people I know have been the same. I had no side effects from the 1st two. A dirty hangover is the best description of it.
Cheers men for the advice on the booster jab. It seems fine but I'm not going to risk it. If I wanted a hangover I'd just go to the pub

What risk is there if you've already had the other two?

What are the benefits if you already have the other 2?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 21, 2022, 03:14:25 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 21, 2022, 03:06:53 PM
Question everything I say
https://youtu.be/Q48G1kiMe3Y   (https://youtu.be/Q48G1kiMe3Y)

Deep Man.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 21, 2022, 03:24:01 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2022, 02:33:07 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 01:50:55 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 21, 2022, 01:07:08 PM
Quote from: laoislad on January 21, 2022, 12:51:05 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 12:03:51 PM
Anyone here have thon booster jab? Got a text there telling to get it heard it leaves a brave few people in bad oul shape.
Felt shite for a full day after it. Was like a very bad hangover. Was grand though the next day.
Got that text from the HSE also but had already got my booster at that stage.

Yip same as that and most people I know have been the same. I had no side effects from the 1st two. A dirty hangover is the best description of it.
Cheers men for the advice on the booster jab. It seems fine but I'm not going to risk it. If I wanted a hangover I'd just go to the pub

The side effects are very mild, in fact a study has shown that most people only have symptoms from a placebo effect ie they're expecting to have them. They're much milder and shorter lasting than even a mild bout of Covid. It's madness not to get it when it's free and so protective.

Ahh dunno.

I got the sudden urge to install Windows 95 on everything and am hit with visions of blue flashes, can take a while to go away and by then I've forgotten everything I was doing before.


So I reckon the Bill Gates control chip within the vaccine is maybe broken. Probably missing a DLL or something.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on January 21, 2022, 03:29:02 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 01:50:55 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 21, 2022, 01:07:08 PM
Quote from: laoislad on January 21, 2022, 12:51:05 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 12:03:51 PM
Anyone here have thon booster jab? Got a text there telling to get it heard it leaves a brave few people in bad oul shape.
Felt shite for a full day after it. Was like a very bad hangover. Was grand though the next day.
Got that text from the HSE also but had already got my booster at that stage.

Yip same as that and most people I know have been the same. I had no side effects from the 1st two. A dirty hangover is the best description of it.
Cheers men for the advice on the booster jab. It seems fine but I'm not going to risk it. If I wanted a hangover I'd just go to the pub

Jesus thats a strange take from my post, a once off hangover is hardly putting you off getting a booster that could protect you, your family and society in general. Its a no brainer, get it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 21, 2022, 03:39:50 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 21, 2022, 03:06:53 PM
Question everything I say
https://youtu.be/Q48G1kiMe3Y   (https://youtu.be/Q48G1kiMe3Y)

Did you watch all 2+ hours of that? You did in your hole
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 21, 2022, 03:41:36 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 21, 2022, 03:29:02 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 01:50:55 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 21, 2022, 01:07:08 PM
Quote from: laoislad on January 21, 2022, 12:51:05 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 12:03:51 PM
Anyone here have thon booster jab? Got a text there telling to get it heard it leaves a brave few people in bad oul shape.
Felt shite for a full day after it. Was like a very bad hangover. Was grand though the next day.
Got that text from the HSE also but had already got my booster at that stage.

Yip same as that and most people I know have been the same. I had no side effects from the 1st two. A dirty hangover is the best description of it.
Cheers men for the advice on the booster jab. It seems fine but I'm not going to risk it. If I wanted a hangover I'd just go to the pub

Jesus thats a strange take from my post, a once off hangover is hardly putting you off getting a booster that could protect you, your family and society in general. Its a no brainer, get it.

See this is it. If he doesn't want it he doesn't want it. He isn't putting anyone at risk unless he himself is within risk group or of course also those within the risk groups that have decided they don't want it(they should get it of they are). And in fact as has transcribed over last month he is very marginally more likely to get covid or pass it on anyhow with booster.

The booster for omicron is over. 50% in NI got it and that is it for now. Finito. We may need another against other strains.

Using terms like "no brainer" just isnt helpful at all
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 21, 2022, 03:51:24 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 21, 2022, 03:06:53 PM
Question everything I say
https://youtu.be/Q48G1kiMe3Y   (https://youtu.be/Q48G1kiMe3Y)

waffle McCullough  waffle unherd article... I then gave up..I dont have 2 hours to waste on that muck... its very simple really, I don't know why people try and complicate covid..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 21, 2022, 04:23:31 PM
If I was you I'd just ignore me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 21, 2022, 04:28:37 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 21, 2022, 04:23:31 PM
If I was you I'd just ignore me.

I think I'll pointing out the waffle I see posted on this thread  from you and others...it might save others the time... maybe don't  post any more rubbish here, I remember you said you weren't going to post here anymore, pity you didn't stick with that...

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 21, 2022, 05:03:53 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 21, 2022, 12:59:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 21, 2022, 11:33:06 AM
I really didn't expect the easing of restrictions to be as rapid as has been done here north or south. I get in England as Boris is just trying to save his ass.

Six nations, national leagues etc be ok.
Maybe not as rapid given the cautious nature of the government over the last two years but the situation in hospitals currently has the numbers one would expect for the flu in any January. With this approach we and England as basically tackling Covid-19 as any other endemic respiratory virus like seasonal flu now and a successful vaccine roll out and less severe variant has greatly helped.
Except it's not endemic. The next variant we know nothing about
.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on January 21, 2022, 05:48:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 21, 2022, 05:03:53 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 21, 2022, 12:59:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 21, 2022, 11:33:06 AM
I really didn't expect the easing of restrictions to be as rapid as has been done here north or south. I get in England as Boris is just trying to save his ass.

Six nations, national leagues etc be ok.
Maybe not as rapid given the cautious nature of the government over the last two years but the situation in hospitals currently has the numbers one would expect for the flu in any January. With this approach we and England as basically tackling Covid-19 as any other endemic respiratory virus like seasonal flu now and a successful vaccine roll out and less severe variant has greatly helped.
Except it's not endemic. The next variant we know nothing about
.

Current situation on this island is more or less endemic. The way omicron was dealt with during the pre and post Christmas period shall provide great confidence towards whatever the next variant will be. The lifting of restrictions replaces the previous pessimism with optimism.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 21, 2022, 06:05:07 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 21, 2022, 05:48:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 21, 2022, 05:03:53 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 21, 2022, 12:59:34 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 21, 2022, 11:33:06 AM
I really didn't expect the easing of restrictions to be as rapid as has been done here north or south. I get in England as Boris is just trying to save his ass.

Six nations, national leagues etc be ok.
Maybe not as rapid given the cautious nature of the government over the last two years but the situation in hospitals currently has the numbers one would expect for the flu in any January. With this approach we and England as basically tackling Covid-19 as any other endemic respiratory virus like seasonal flu now and a successful vaccine roll out and less severe variant has greatly helped.
Except it's not endemic. The next variant we know nothing about
.

Current situation on this island is more or less endemic. The way omicron was dealt with during the pre and post Christmas period shall provide great confidence towards whatever the next variant will be. The lifting of restrictions replaces the previous pessimism with optimism.
Endemic is a permanent state. If the next variant is more lethal than Delta the ICUs won't be able to cope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVAvMIhvqfk&t=6s
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 21, 2022, 06:23:44 PM
Probably no hope of a quiet pint this weekend :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 21, 2022, 06:52:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 21, 2022, 03:07:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 21, 2022, 01:53:03 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 01:50:55 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 21, 2022, 01:07:08 PM
Quote from: laoislad on January 21, 2022, 12:51:05 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 12:03:51 PM
Anyone here have thon booster jab? Got a text there telling to get it heard it leaves a brave few people in bad oul shape.
Felt shite for a full day after it. Was like a very bad hangover. Was grand though the next day.
Got that text from the HSE also but had already got my booster at that stage.

Yip same as that and most people I know have been the same. I had no side effects from the 1st two. A dirty hangover is the best description of it.
Cheers men for the advice on the booster jab. It seems fine but I'm not going to risk it. If I wanted a hangover I'd just go to the pub

What risk is there if you've already had the other two?

What are the benefits if you already have the other 2?

I don't think they'll let you have the 4th one unless you get the third.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 21, 2022, 07:03:25 PM
Funny, I be the other way, got it 2 months bck, arm was sore a few days, but now I get a very sore arm for a few days, then away a few weeks, then it come bck again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 21, 2022, 07:03:41 PM
80,000 people still receiving pandemic unemployment benefit. I wonder how many will have jobs to go back to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 21, 2022, 07:07:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 21, 2022, 07:03:41 PM
80,000 people still receiving pandemic unemployment benefit. I wonder how many will have jobs to go back to.

Where these jobs available before the pandemic?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 21, 2022, 07:15:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 21, 2022, 06:05:07 PM
Endemic is a permanent state. If the next variant is more lethal than Delta the ICUs won't be able to cope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVAvMIhvqfk&t=6s

Nope.

It'd need to be both more lethal than Omicron and more transmissible than Omicron.

Those two are mostly mutually exclusive.

Therefore, we're entering endemic stage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on January 21, 2022, 07:24:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 21, 2022, 07:07:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 21, 2022, 07:03:41 PM
80,000 people still receiving pandemic unemployment benefit. I wonder how many will have jobs to go back to.

Where these jobs available before the pandemic?

There have never been more jobs in the North
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 21, 2022, 07:30:15 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 21, 2022, 07:24:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 21, 2022, 07:07:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 21, 2022, 07:03:41 PM
80,000 people still receiving pandemic unemployment benefit. I wonder how many will have jobs to go back to.

Where these jobs available before the pandemic?

There have never been more jobs in the North

Loads of jobs so I was querying seafoid's post
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 21, 2022, 07:32:45 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 21, 2022, 07:15:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 21, 2022, 06:05:07 PM
Endemic is a permanent state. If the next variant is more lethal than Delta the ICUs won't be able to cope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVAvMIhvqfk&t=6s

Nope.

It'd need to be both more lethal than Omicron and more transmissible than Omicron.

Those two are mostly mutually exclusive.

Therefore, we're entering endemic stage.

virologist here is suggesting similar but a little more cautious than you RGG

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/as-restrictions-ease-government-should-bolster-covid-defences-says-virologist-1245896.html
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on January 21, 2022, 07:52:46 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 21, 2022, 01:07:08 PM
Quote from: laoislad on January 21, 2022, 12:51:05 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 12:03:51 PM
Anyone here have thon booster jab? Got a text there telling to get it heard it leaves a brave few people in bad oul shape.
Felt shite for a full day after it. Was like a very bad hangover. Was grand though the next day.
Got that text from the HSE also but had already got my booster at that stage.

Yip same as that and most people I know have been the same. I had no side effects from the 1st two. A dirty hangover is the best description of it.
I was shivery for 3 or 4 days after the booster. Was moderna. I know a right few people who had the same reaction or a bit worse though still nothing to be actually concerned getting it. I had nothing after the first two jabs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 21, 2022, 08:03:56 PM
It's mad that all these restrictions are being lifted and we're getting our freedoms back. The anti vaxxers said that once they were imposed we'd never get them back. I'm not sure if I can trust those guys any more.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 21, 2022, 08:06:53 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 21, 2022, 07:15:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 21, 2022, 06:05:07 PM
Endemic is a permanent state. If the next variant is more lethal than Delta the ICUs won't be able to cope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVAvMIhvqfk&t=6s

Nope.

It'd need to be both more lethal than Omicron and more transmissible than Omicron.

Those two are mostly mutually exclusive.

Therefore, we're entering endemic stage.

Naw.

Le Monde covered this after someone on social media said Covid was endemic . I will try a translation

https://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2020/09/24/endemie-un-terme-employe-sur-les-reseaux-sociaux-mais-inadapte-pour-qualifier-le-covid-19_6053480_4355770.html
Quant à savoir si le Covid-19 deviendra « endémique », c'est envisageable, selon Fabienne El-Khoury, chercheuse en épidémiologie à l'Institut national de la santé et de la recherche médicale (Inserm). Elle explique qu'une maladie peut devenir endémique si aucun vaccin n'existe, comme dans le cas du virus de l'immunodéficience humaine (VIH, responsable du sida), ou si un vaccin donne une immunité de courte durée.

Endemic is possible if
1. No vaccine exists
2. there is only a short term vaccine. HIV is endemic.

https://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2020/09/24/endemie-un-terme-employe-sur-les-reseaux-sociaux-mais-inadapte-pour-qualifier-le-covid-19_6053480_4355770.html
« Il y a toujours des cas qui apparaissent de façon sporadique dans une population, mais l'incidence de la maladie [c'est-à-dire le nombre de cas pendant une période donnée au sein d'une population] ne baisse pas et n'augmente pas »

Endemic means the incidence of Covid during a given period neither falls nor increases.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 21, 2022, 08:42:03 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2022, 08:03:56 PM
It's mad that all these restrictions are being lifted and we're getting our freedoms back. The anti vaxxers said that once they were imposed we'd never get them back. I'm not sure if I can trust those guys any more.

Yep, Covid passports were here to stay. The narrative now is that they are being dropped as they obviously didn't work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 21, 2022, 09:19:26 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 21, 2022, 07:32:45 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 21, 2022, 07:15:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 21, 2022, 06:05:07 PM
Endemic is a permanent state. If the next variant is more lethal than Delta the ICUs won't be able to cope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVAvMIhvqfk&t=6s

Nope.

It'd need to be both more lethal than Omicron and more transmissible than Omicron.

Those two are mostly mutually exclusive.

Therefore, we're entering endemic stage.

virologist here is suggesting similar but a little more cautious than you RGG

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/as-restrictions-ease-government-should-bolster-covid-defences-says-virologist-1245896.html

Can't really disagree with his main thrust.

(i) Health services have been shown to have insufficient capacity and reserve. Its not as if they don't madly creak every winter.
(ii) Responses in the Western world were diabolically slow and disorganised compared to how most of modern Asia fared.
(iii) A system that can scale up quickly for testing would be very useful - if hard to see how it could be implemented in practice.

Then beyond the article a few thoughts of my own.
(i) Really shows the danger of having people work in both hospitals and care homes. Its not as if Covid is the only infection that can go from one to the other via workers with deadly consequences.
(ii) The danger of vested interests + stupidity + social media is laid bare for all (with more than a single digit IQ) to see. Facebook etc really are more trouble than they are worth considering the widely acknowledged mental health issues caused by social media long before the pandemic.
(iii) The golden rule of dealing with an epidemic or pandemic is simple - act hard early. You can always relax later if it isn't as bad as feared, but you can never get back control if you've been sitting on your hands for a few weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 21, 2022, 09:23:40 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 21, 2022, 07:52:46 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 21, 2022, 01:07:08 PM
Quote from: laoislad on January 21, 2022, 12:51:05 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 12:03:51 PM
Anyone here have thon booster jab? Got a text there telling to get it heard it leaves a brave few people in bad oul shape.
Felt shite for a full day after it. Was like a very bad hangover. Was grand though the next day.
Got that text from the HSE also but had already got my booster at that stage.

Yip same as that and most people I know have been the same. I had no side effects from the 1st two. A dirty hangover is the best description of it.
I was shivery for 3 or 4 days after the booster. Was moderna. I know a right few people who had the same reaction or a bit worse though still nothing to be actually concerned getting it. I had nothing after the first two jabs.
All saft Derry men?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 21, 2022, 09:26:03 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 21, 2022, 08:42:03 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2022, 08:03:56 PM
It's mad that all these restrictions are being lifted and we're getting our freedoms back. The anti vaxxers said that once they were imposed we'd never get them back. I'm not sure if I can trust those guys any more.

Yep, Covid passports were here to stay. The narrative now is that they are being dropped as they obviously didn't work.
Who said that? I thought they were here to allow us to go out during Covid? Now that the variant isn't dangerous we'll hardly need them?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 21, 2022, 09:29:39 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 21, 2022, 08:06:53 PM
Naw.

Le Monde covered this after someone on social media said Covid was endemic . I will try a translation

Endemic is possible if
1. No vaccine exists
2. there is only a short term vaccine. HIV is endemic.

Endemic means the incidence of Covid during a given period neither falls nor increases.

It will become endemic in the same way the flu is broadly considered endemic even if it doesn't necessarily meet all criteria of the definition of endemic.

Which is good enough.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 21, 2022, 09:40:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 21, 2022, 09:26:03 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 21, 2022, 08:42:03 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2022, 08:03:56 PM
It's mad that all these restrictions are being lifted and we're getting our freedoms back. The anti vaxxers said that once they were imposed we'd never get them back. I'm not sure if I can trust those guys any more.

Yep, Covid passports were here to stay. The narrative now is that they are being dropped as they obviously didn't work.
Who said that? I thought they were here to allow us to go out during Covid? Now that the variant isn't dangerous we'll hardly need them?

Every conspiracy theorist out there Inc ones in here. 'They' are out to get us, control us, take away our civil liberties, freedom and all that kind of stuff. Passports are here to stay, this is only the start etc etc
And most right thinking people knew it was a temp measure designed to protect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 21, 2022, 11:08:11 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 21, 2022, 09:40:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 21, 2022, 09:26:03 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 21, 2022, 08:42:03 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2022, 08:03:56 PM
It's mad that all these restrictions are being lifted and we're getting our freedoms back. The anti vaxxers said that once they were imposed we'd never get them back. I'm not sure if I can trust those guys any more.

Yep, Covid passports were here to stay. The narrative now is that they are being dropped as they obviously didn't work.
Who said that? I thought they were here to allow us to go out during Covid? Now that the variant isn't dangerous we'll hardly need them?

Every conspiracy theorist out there Inc ones in here. 'They' are out to get us, control us, take away our civil liberties, freedom and all that kind of stuff. Passports are here to stay, this is only the start etc etc
And most right thinking people knew it was a temp measure designed to protect.
take the L and move on
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on January 21, 2022, 11:10:14 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 21, 2022, 09:23:40 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 21, 2022, 07:52:46 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 21, 2022, 01:07:08 PM
Quote from: laoislad on January 21, 2022, 12:51:05 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 12:03:51 PM
Anyone here have thon booster jab? Got a text there telling to get it heard it leaves a brave few people in bad oul shape.
Felt shite for a full day after it. Was like a very bad hangover. Was grand though the next day.
Got that text from the HSE also but had already got my booster at that stage.

Yip same as that and most people I know have been the same. I had no side effects from the 1st two. A dirty hangover is the best description of it.
I was shivery for 3 or 4 days after the booster. Was moderna. I know a right few people who had the same reaction or a bit worse though still nothing to be actually concerned getting it. I had nothing after the first two jabs.
All saft Derry men?
Lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on January 21, 2022, 11:12:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 21, 2022, 11:08:11 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 21, 2022, 09:40:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 21, 2022, 09:26:03 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 21, 2022, 08:42:03 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2022, 08:03:56 PM
It's mad that all these restrictions are being lifted and we're getting our freedoms back. The anti vaxxers said that once they were imposed we'd never get them back. I'm not sure if I can trust those guys any more.

Yep, Covid passports were here to stay. The narrative now is that they are being dropped as they obviously didn't work.
Who said that? I thought they were here to allow us to go out during Covid? Now that the variant isn't dangerous we'll hardly need them?

Every conspiracy theorist out there Inc ones in here. 'They' are out to get us, control us, take away our civil liberties, freedom and all that kind of stuff. Passports are here to stay, this is only the start etc etc
And most right thinking people knew it was a temp measure designed to protect.
take the L and move on
;D Right for a laugh gone explain how he lost? Should be a good one!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 22, 2022, 12:22:04 AM
Quote from: Gmac on January 21, 2022, 11:08:11 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 21, 2022, 09:40:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 21, 2022, 09:26:03 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 21, 2022, 08:42:03 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2022, 08:03:56 PM
It's mad that all these restrictions are being lifted and we're getting our freedoms back. The anti vaxxers said that once they were imposed we'd never get them back. I'm not sure if I can trust those guys any more.

Yep, Covid passports were here to stay. The narrative now is that they are being dropped as they obviously didn't work.
Who said that? I thought they were here to allow us to go out during Covid? Now that the variant isn't dangerous we'll hardly need them?

Every conspiracy theorist out there Inc ones in here. 'They' are out to get us, control us, take away our civil liberties, freedom and all that kind of stuff. Passports are here to stay, this is only the start etc etc
And most right thinking people knew it was a temp measure designed to protect.
take the L and move on

Not my call, sure I'm at the behest of 'they'. 'Freedom's just another word....'
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 22, 2022, 07:47:07 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2022, 08:03:56 PM
It's mad that all these restrictions are being lifted and we're getting our freedoms back. The anti vaxxers said that once they were imposed we'd never get them back. I'm not sure if I can trust those guys any more.

I just read that Meat Loaf died from Covid. He wouldn't take the vaccine as he didn't want to be controlled. Great musician but it's sad he bought into conspiracy nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 22, 2022, 09:27:11 AM
And this one

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1274658/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 22, 2022, 09:59:42 AM
 Rumblings that they are considering delaying the implementation of the mandatory covid 19 vaccination for NHS health care workers in England.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-nhs-staff-vaccine-rules-b1998402.html%3famp
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 10:32:16 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 07:47:07 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2022, 08:03:56 PM
It's mad that all these restrictions are being lifted and we're getting our freedoms back. The anti vaxxers said that once they were imposed we'd never get them back. I'm not sure if I can trust those guys any more.

I just read that Meat Loaf died from Covid. He wouldn't take the vaccine as he didn't want to be controlled. Great musician but it's sad he bought into conspiracy nonsense.

Not wanting to be controlled and thinking there is a conspiracy aren't the same thing for some I'd imagine .

The disgusting abuse online about him demonstrates the loonies we get at both extremes of the covid debate
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2022, 01:39:10 PM
If it was the case it was his choice and I'm sure he was strong enough in his decision to do so
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 22, 2022, 03:31:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 10:32:16 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 07:47:07 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2022, 08:03:56 PM
It's mad that all these restrictions are being lifted and we're getting our freedoms back. The anti vaxxers said that once they were imposed we'd never get them back. I'm not sure if I can trust those guys any more.

I just read that Meat Loaf died from Covid. He wouldn't take the vaccine as he didn't want to be controlled. Great musician but it's sad he bought into conspiracy nonsense.

Not wanting to be controlled and thinking there is a conspiracy aren't the same thing for some I'd imagine .

The disgusting abuse online about him demonstrates the loonies we get at both extremes of the covid debate

Have to say I disagree. You have to be some sort of conspiracy theorist to think that taking the vaccine to protect yourself and others is somehow surrendering control.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on January 22, 2022, 03:58:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 03:31:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 10:32:16 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 07:47:07 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2022, 08:03:56 PM
It's mad that all these restrictions are being lifted and we're getting our freedoms back. The anti vaxxers said that once they were imposed we'd never get them back. I'm not sure if I can trust those guys any more.

I just read that Meat Loaf died from Covid. He wouldn't take the vaccine as he didn't want to be controlled. Great musician but it's sad he bought into conspiracy nonsense.

Not wanting to be controlled and thinking there is a conspiracy aren't the same thing for some I'd imagine .

The disgusting abuse online about him demonstrates the loonies we get at both extremes of the covid debate

Have to say I disagree. You have to be some sort of conspiracy theorist to think that taking the vaccine to protect yourself and others is somehow surrendering control.
Exactly. It's like saying I'm not going to take this medicine the doctor has prescribed for me because I don't want to be controlled.

He was strongly advised to take a vaccine to protect his health. Nobody was trying to control him, only to help him. He asserted his right to refuse and now as a result he is unfortunately dead before his time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 22, 2022, 04:02:17 PM
Meatloaf was the picture of health all his life ffs get a grip
74 year old obese man with heart disease and asthma dies.  Shocker
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 22, 2022, 04:05:48 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0122/1275247-covid-pass/An expert in immunology has said it was a mistake for the Government to drop the Digital Covid Certificates and added that they may regret the move.

Professor of Experimental Immunology at Trinity College Dublin Kingston Mills said that he is delighted with the easing of restrictions, but that he is "surprised" at the pace at which they have been relaxed, in particular the certificates.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 04:05:50 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 03:31:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 10:32:16 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 07:47:07 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2022, 08:03:56 PM
It's mad that all these restrictions are being lifted and we're getting our freedoms back. The anti vaxxers said that once they were imposed we'd never get them back. I'm not sure if I can trust those guys any more.

I just read that Meat Loaf died from Covid. He wouldn't take the vaccine as he didn't want to be controlled. Great musician but it's sad he bought into conspiracy nonsense.

Not wanting to be controlled and thinking there is a conspiracy aren't the same thing for some I'd imagine .

The disgusting abuse online about him demonstrates the loonies we get at both extremes of the covid debate

Have to say I disagree. You have to be some sort of conspiracy theorist to think that taking the vaccine to protect yourself and others is somehow surrendering control.

Language like "you have to be" and " no brainer" isn't helpful . Mad how many pro choice 8th amendment campaigners and vice versa take total opposite view in this debate. Oh the irony .

You may like me think there is no conspiracy, but you are healthy and that depending on your own immune system( in relation to booster)is perfectly sensible to say thank you for now
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 04:10:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 22, 2022, 04:02:17 PM
Meatloaf was the picture of health all his life ffs get a grip
74 year old obese man with heart disease and asthma dies.  Shocker

Lol. Some pints and burgers down the years ,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2022, 04:14:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 22, 2022, 04:02:17 PM
Meatloaf was the picture of health all his life ffs get a grip
74 year old obese man with heart disease and asthma dies.  Shocker

Heavy 74 year olds with asthma are regularly dying
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 22, 2022, 04:17:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 22, 2022, 04:02:17 PM
Meatloaf was the picture of health all his life ffs get a grip
74 year old obese man with heart disease and asthma dies.  Shocker

Without Covid he could've lived for another 15 years easily. That's the point when people talk of comorbities. Lots of youngish people have died from Covid who've had things like diabetes or high blood pressure. These are very manageable conditions and they could easily have expected to live another 20 or 30 years for some of them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 22, 2022, 04:26:38 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 04:17:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 22, 2022, 04:02:17 PM
Meatloaf was the picture of health all his life ffs get a grip
74 year old obese man with heart disease and asthma dies.  Shocker

Without Covid he could've lived for another 15 years easily. That's the point when people talk of comorbities. Lots of youngish people have died from Covid who've had things like diabetes or high blood pressure. These are very manageable conditions and they could easily have expected to live another 20 or 30 years for some of them.
his cause of death is speculation at this stage unless you saw death certificate.
Do you know his medical history?  you don't know if he was vaccinated or not it's speculation .
Being an unhealthy male  and dying at 74 is the most common thing in the world in 2022 and was in 2019 too.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 22, 2022, 05:29:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 22, 2022, 04:26:38 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 04:17:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 22, 2022, 04:02:17 PM
Meatloaf was the picture of health all his life ffs get a grip
74 year old obese man with heart disease and asthma dies.  Shocker

Without Covid he could've lived for another 15 years easily. That's the point when people talk of comorbities. Lots of youngish people have died from Covid who've had things like diabetes or high blood pressure. These are very manageable conditions and they could easily have expected to live another 20 or 30 years for some of them.
his cause of death is speculation at this stage unless you saw death certificate.
Do you know his medical history?  you don't know if he was vaccinated or not it's speculation .
Being an unhealthy male  and dying at 74 is the most common thing in the world in 2022 and was in 2019 too.

A person dying a decade earlier seems to be matter of no concern to you. That decade represents the entire progress in medicine in the last 50 years.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 22, 2022, 05:34:03 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2022, 05:29:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 22, 2022, 04:26:38 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 04:17:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 22, 2022, 04:02:17 PM
Meatloaf was the picture of health all his life ffs get a grip
74 year old obese man with heart disease and asthma dies.  Shocker

Without Covid he could've lived for another 15 years easily. That's the point when people talk of comorbities. Lots of youngish people have died from Covid who've had things like diabetes or high blood pressure. These are very manageable conditions and they could easily have expected to live another 20 or 30 years for some of them.
his cause of death is speculation at this stage unless you saw death certificate.
Do you know his medical history?  you don't know if he was vaccinated or not it's speculation .
Being an unhealthy male  and dying at 74 is the most common thing in the world in 2022 and was in 2019 too.

A person dying a decade earlier seems to be matter of no concern to you. That decade represents the entire progress in medicine in the last 50 years.
I didn't look after my health for 74 years I can't believe I'm going to die !
Real concern or fake concern ? Don't do the latter
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on January 22, 2022, 07:11:21 PM
Tbf Meatloaf did well getting to 74.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 22, 2022, 07:28:22 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 04:05:50 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 03:31:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 10:32:16 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 07:47:07 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2022, 08:03:56 PM
It's mad that all these restrictions are being lifted and we're getting our freedoms back. The anti vaxxers said that once they were imposed we'd never get them back. I'm not sure if I can trust those guys any more.

I just read that Meat Loaf died from Covid. He wouldn't take the vaccine as he didn't want to be controlled. Great musician but it's sad he bought into conspiracy nonsense.

Not wanting to be controlled and thinking there is a conspiracy aren't the same thing for some I'd imagine .

The disgusting abuse online about him demonstrates the loonies we get at both extremes of the covid debate

Have to say I disagree. You have to be some sort of conspiracy theorist to think that taking the vaccine to protect yourself and others is somehow surrendering control.

Language like "you have to be" and " no brainer" isn't helpful . Mad how many pro choice 8th amendment campaigners and vice versa take total opposite view in this debate. Oh the irony .

You may like me think there is no conspiracy, but you are healthy and that depending on your own immune system( in relation to booster)is perfectly sensible to say thank you for now

That's fair enough but Meat Loaf gave the reason for Nat getting vaccinated as that he didn't want to be controlled. Nobody who's giving out vaccines wants to control anyone else, they're doing it to protect them. Therefore he must've fallen victim to believing conspiracy theorists. Which is very sad since if he'd taken the vaccine he could've expected only a mild illness and to have lived for several more years at least.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 22, 2022, 07:41:32 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 07:28:22 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 04:05:50 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 03:31:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 10:32:16 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 07:47:07 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2022, 08:03:56 PM
It's mad that all these restrictions are being lifted and we're getting our freedoms back. The anti vaxxers said that once they were imposed we'd never get them back. I'm not sure if I can trust those guys any more.

I just read that Meat Loaf died from Covid. He wouldn't take the vaccine as he didn't want to be controlled. Great musician but it's sad he bought into conspiracy nonsense.

Not wanting to be controlled and thinking there is a conspiracy aren't the same thing for some I'd imagine .

The disgusting abuse online about him demonstrates the loonies we get at both extremes of the covid debate

Have to say I disagree. You have to be some sort of conspiracy theorist to think that taking the vaccine to protect yourself and others is somehow surrendering control.

Language like "you have to be" and " no brainer" isn't helpful . Mad how many pro choice 8th amendment campaigners and vice versa take total opposite view in this debate. Oh the irony .

You may like me think there is no conspiracy, but you are healthy and that depending on your own immune system( in relation to booster)is perfectly sensible to say thank you for now

That's fair enough but Meat Loaf gave the reason for Nat getting vaccinated as that he didn't want to be controlled. Nobody who's giving out vaccines wants to control anyone else, they're doing it to protect them. Therefore he must've fallen victim to believing conspiracy theorists. Which is very sad since if he'd taken the vaccine he could've expected only a mild illness and

to have lived for several more years at least.

I'm sorry but that's pure conjecture. Do you know his detailed medical history? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 22, 2022, 07:52:53 PM
Are all the people who got vaccinated against polio and smallpox being "controlled"?
Who's "controlling" them?
How many of them want to get polio or smallpox?
There are some fruitcake out there and a few on this board.
Then we had 1,000 fckwits protesting in Dublin today against Covid restrictions, which were abolished 6 hours earlier.
I wonder what will the 0.8% extremist scumbags latch onto now?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 22, 2022, 08:01:39 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 22, 2022, 07:41:32 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 07:28:22 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 04:05:50 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 03:31:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 10:32:16 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 07:47:07 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2022, 08:03:56 PM
It's mad that all these restrictions are being lifted and we're getting our freedoms back. The anti vaxxers said that once they were imposed we'd never get them back. I'm not sure if I can trust those guys any more.

I just read that Meat Loaf died from Covid. He wouldn't take the vaccine as he didn't want to be controlled. Great musician but it's sad he bought into conspiracy nonsense.

Not wanting to be controlled and thinking there is a conspiracy aren't the same thing for some I'd imagine .

The disgusting abuse online about him demonstrates the loonies we get at both extremes of the covid debate

Have to say I disagree. You have to be some sort of conspiracy theorist to think that taking the vaccine to protect yourself and others is somehow surrendering control.

Language like "you have to be" and " no brainer" isn't helpful . Mad how many pro choice 8th amendment campaigners and vice versa take total opposite view in this debate. Oh the irony .

You may like me think there is no conspiracy, but you are healthy and that depending on your own immune system( in relation to booster)is perfectly sensible to say thank you for now

That's fair enough but Meat Loaf gave the reason for Nat getting vaccinated as that he didn't want to be controlled. Nobody who's giving out vaccines wants to control anyone else, they're doing it to protect them. Therefore he must've fallen victim to believing conspiracy theorists. Which is very sad since if he'd taken the vaccine he could've expected only a mild illness and

to have lived for several more years at least.

I'm sorry but that's pure conjecture. Do you know his detailed medical history?

if TMZ is accurate, he was due to attend a business dinner but that dinner was cancelled as he had covid. So it appears healthy enough to arrange a business meeting prior to having covid, not healthy enough after getting covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 22, 2022, 08:09:16 PM
 His health wasnt great on and off for a number of recent years.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 22, 2022, 08:31:09 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 22, 2022, 07:41:32 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 07:28:22 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 04:05:50 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 03:31:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 10:32:16 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 07:47:07 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2022, 08:03:56 PM
It's mad that all these restrictions are being lifted and we're getting our freedoms back. The anti vaxxers said that once they were imposed we'd never get them back. I'm not sure if I can trust those guys any more.

I just read that Meat Loaf died from Covid. He wouldn't take the vaccine as he didn't want to be controlled. Great musician but it's sad he bought into conspiracy nonsense.

Not wanting to be controlled and thinking there is a conspiracy aren't the same thing for some I'd imagine .

The disgusting abuse online about him demonstrates the loonies we get at both extremes of the covid debate

Have to say I disagree. You have to be some sort of conspiracy theorist to think that taking the vaccine to protect yourself and others is somehow surrendering control.

Language like "you have to be" and " no brainer" isn't helpful . Mad how many pro choice 8th amendment campaigners and vice versa take total opposite view in this debate. Oh the irony .

You may like me think there is no conspiracy, but you are healthy and that depending on your own immune system( in relation to booster)is perfectly sensible to say thank you for now

That's fair enough but Meat Loaf gave the reason for Nat getting vaccinated as that he didn't want to be controlled. Nobody who's giving out vaccines wants to control anyone else, they're doing it to protect them. Therefore he must've fallen victim to believing conspiracy theorists. Which is very sad since if he'd taken the vaccine he could've expected only a mild illness and

to have lived for several more years at least.

I'm sorry but that's pure conjecture. Do you know his detailed medical history?

I haven't a clue about his medical history. I do know that if you've lived to 74 as a male you can expect to live to 87. There are obviously many variables there but that's the expected outcome for a man of 74.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 22, 2022, 09:11:49 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 08:31:09 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 22, 2022, 07:41:32 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 07:28:22 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 04:05:50 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 03:31:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 10:32:16 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 07:47:07 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2022, 08:03:56 PM
It's mad that all these restrictions are being lifted and we're getting our freedoms back. The anti vaxxers said that once they were imposed we'd never get them back. I'm not sure if I can trust those guys any more.

I just read that Meat Loaf died from Covid. He wouldn't take the vaccine as he didn't want to be controlled. Great musician but it's sad he bought into conspiracy nonsense.

Not wanting to be controlled and thinking there is a conspiracy aren't the same thing for some I'd imagine .

The disgusting abuse online about him demonstrates the loonies we get at both extremes of the covid debate

Have to say I disagree. You have to be some sort of conspiracy theorist to think that taking the vaccine to protect yourself and others is somehow surrendering control.

Language like "you have to be" and " no brainer" isn't helpful . Mad how many pro choice 8th amendment campaigners and vice versa take total opposite view in this debate. Oh the irony .

You may like me think there is no conspiracy, but you are healthy and that depending on your own immune system( in relation to booster)is perfectly sensible to say thank you for now

That's fair enough but Meat Loaf gave the reason for Nat getting vaccinated as that he didn't want to be controlled. Nobody who's giving out vaccines wants to control anyone else, they're doing it to protect them. Therefore he must've fallen victim to believing conspiracy theorists. Which is very sad since if he'd taken the vaccine he could've expected only a mild illness and

to have lived for several more years at least.

I'm sorry but that's pure conjecture. Do you know his detailed medical history?

I haven't a clue about his medical history. I do know that if you've lived to 74 as a male you can expect to live to 87. There are obviously many variables there but that's the expected outcome for a man of 74.
not in the USA 77 years for a male in 2020
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on January 22, 2022, 09:21:04 PM
Back to the real  Irish pandemic tonight for the poor hoors that have to work in a&e departments up & down our wonderful country. Young lads & women drinking quantities of drink their bodies & minds cant possibly sustain. If there was one blessing of Covid & partial lockdowns, twas the respite our a&e departments got from the lack of drunken, violent, ungrateful assholes shown up bloodied & battered looking for attention. Maybe these fookers need a pass in future to enter premises that sell alcohol. People like these pose a far greater problem to themselves & society than the covid unvaccinated ever did.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on January 22, 2022, 09:32:52 PM
Isn't it it inevitable that in 10 days time we are going to have a huge amount of covid positives. Is that the idea that we are going to let covid rip now?  If that's the case do people just go to work now with a sniffle again? This whole jump into two footed in the Republic seems very odd to me.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 22, 2022, 09:48:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 22, 2022, 09:11:49 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 08:31:09 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 22, 2022, 07:41:32 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 07:28:22 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 04:05:50 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 03:31:09 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 22, 2022, 10:32:16 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 07:47:07 AM
Quote from: lenny on January 21, 2022, 08:03:56 PM
It's mad that all these restrictions are being lifted and we're getting our freedoms back. The anti vaxxers said that once they were imposed we'd never get them back. I'm not sure if I can trust those guys any more.

I just read that Meat Loaf died from Covid. He wouldn't take the vaccine as he didn't want to be controlled. Great musician but it's sad he bought into conspiracy nonsense.

Not wanting to be controlled and thinking there is a conspiracy aren't the same thing for some I'd imagine .

The disgusting abuse online about him demonstrates the loonies we get at both extremes of the covid debate

Have to say I disagree. You have to be some sort of conspiracy theorist to think that taking the vaccine to protect yourself and others is somehow surrendering control.

Language like "you have to be" and " no brainer" isn't helpful . Mad how many pro choice 8th amendment campaigners and vice versa take total opposite view in this debate. Oh the irony .

You may like me think there is no conspiracy, but you are healthy and that depending on your own immune system( in relation to booster)is perfectly sensible to say thank you for now

That's fair enough but Meat Loaf gave the reason for Nat getting vaccinated as that he didn't want to be controlled. Nobody who's giving out vaccines wants to control anyone else, they're doing it to protect them. Therefore he must've fallen victim to believing conspiracy theorists. Which is very sad since if he'd taken the vaccine he could've expected only a mild illness and

to have lived for several more years at least.

I'm sorry but that's pure conjecture. Do you know his detailed medical history?

I haven't a clue about his medical history. I do know that if you've lived to 74 as a male you can expect to live to 87. There are obviously many variables there but that's the expected outcome for a man of 74.
not in the USA 77 years for a male in 2020

We're both wrong. It's 87 in the UK but 85 in America.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 22, 2022, 10:08:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 22, 2022, 09:32:52 PM
Isn't it it inevitable that in 10 days time we are going to have a huge amount of covid positives. Is that the idea that we are going to let covid rip now?  If that's the case do people just go to work now with a sniffle again? This whole jump into two footed in the Republic seems very odd to me.

Even on today's figures there are almost 11,000 cases and that is probably only half the number. There is going to a shed load of cases in the next fortnight, perhaps half a million people, and I for one will be keeping out of the way until that surge passes. If you haven't had Omicron and work in a pub then you are going to have it shortly.
I imagine the thinking is that opening pubs and discos will get the younger folk out and while they'll all get Omicron they'll not end in hospital much, then you'll have herd immunity among those who circulate a lot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 22, 2022, 10:18:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2022, 10:08:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 22, 2022, 09:32:52 PM
Isn't it it inevitable that in 10 days time we are going to have a huge amount of covid positives. Is that the idea that we are going to let covid rip now?  If that's the case do people just go to work now with a sniffle again? This whole jump into two footed in the Republic seems very odd to me.

Even on today's figures there are almost 11,000 cases and that is probably only half the number. There is going to a shed load of cases in the next fortnight, perhaps half a million people, and I for one will be keeping out of the way until that surge passes. If you haven't had Omicron and work in a pub then you are going to have it shortly.
I imagine the thinking is that opening pubs and discos will get the younger folk out and while they'll all get Omicron they'll not end in hospital much, then you'll have herd immunity among those who circulate a lot.

That thinking is flawed though. The problem is you won't have herd immunity. People have been reinfected with omicron within 5 or 6 weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on January 22, 2022, 10:31:31 PM
There's an extraordinary air of negativity from some posters about restrictions being eased.

Absolute covid junkies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 22, 2022, 10:41:36 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 22, 2022, 10:31:31 PM
There's an extraordinary air of negativity from some posters about restrictions being eased.

Absolute covid junkies.

who? I think there is one recent poster who said they would be more cautious as they expect a large number of cases (seems a reasonable expectation and NPHET said similar) but I've not seen any other negative posts...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thewobbler on January 22, 2022, 10:45:59 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 22, 2022, 10:41:36 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 22, 2022, 10:31:31 PM
There's an extraordinary air of negativity from some posters about restrictions being eased.

Absolute covid junkies.

who? I think there is one recent poster who said they would be more cautious as they expect a large number of cases (seems a reasonable expectation and NPHET said similar) but I've not seen any other negative posts...

Since the Meatloaf conversation dried up....

The problem is you won't have herd immunity. People have been reinfected with omicron within 5 or 6 weeks.

There is going to a shed load of cases in the next fortnight, perhaps half a million people,

This whole jump into two footed in the Republic seems very odd to me.

Back to the real  Irish pandemic tonight for the poor hoors that have to work in a&e departments
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 22, 2022, 10:50:33 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 22, 2022, 10:18:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 22, 2022, 10:08:03 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 22, 2022, 09:32:52 PM
Isn't it it inevitable that in 10 days time we are going to have a huge amount of covid positives. Is that the idea that we are going to let covid rip now?  If that's the case do people just go to work now with a sniffle again? This whole jump into two footed in the Republic seems very odd to me.

Even on today's figures there are almost 11,000 cases and that is probably only half the number. There is going to a shed load of cases in the next fortnight, perhaps half a million people, and I for one will be keeping out of the way until that surge passes. If you haven't had Omicron and work in a pub then you are going to have it shortly.
I imagine the thinking is that opening pubs and discos will get the younger folk out and while they'll all get Omicron they'll not end in hospital much, then you'll have herd immunity among those who circulate a lot.

That thinking is flawed though. The problem is you won't have herd immunity. People have been reinfected with omicron within 5 or 6 weeks.

The way out might be to get an Omicron specific vaccine for the older half of the population and let the rest get reinfected as such reinfection will rarely be serious.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 22, 2022, 10:54:47 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 22, 2022, 10:45:59 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 22, 2022, 10:41:36 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 22, 2022, 10:31:31 PM
There's an extraordinary air of negativity from some posters about restrictions being eased.

Absolute covid junkies.

who? I think there is one recent poster who said they would be more cautious as they expect a large number of cases (seems a reasonable expectation and NPHET said similar) but I've not seen any other negative posts...

Since the Meatloaf conversation dried up....

The problem is you won't have herd immunity. People have been reinfected with omicron within 5 or 6 weeks.

There is going to a shed load of cases in the next fortnight, perhaps half a million people,

This whole jump into two footed in the Republic seems very odd to me.

Back to the real  Irish pandemic tonight for the poor hoors that have to work in a&e departments

1st one is just advising the previous poster that reinfection is happening with omicron re Herd immunity nothing really to do with restrictions..

the 2nd one I referenced but it ls a valid observation given increased socialisation.

I dont think the 3rd one is negative and the 4th I forgot about that post....

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on January 22, 2022, 10:59:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 22, 2022, 10:45:59 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 22, 2022, 10:41:36 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 22, 2022, 10:31:31 PM
There's an extraordinary air of negativity from some posters about restrictions being eased.

Absolute covid junkies.

who? I think there is one recent poster who said they would be more cautious as they expect a large number of cases (seems a reasonable expectation and NPHET said similar) but I've not seen any other negative posts...

Since the Meatloaf conversation dried up....

The problem is you won't have herd immunity. People have been reinfected with omicron within 5 or 6 weeks.

There is going to a shed load of cases in the next fortnight, perhaps half a million people,

This whole jump into two footed in the Republic seems very odd to me.

Back to the real  Irish pandemic tonight for the poor hoors that have to work in a&e departments

Wobbler the last quote is from myself, no one could call me a Covid junkie. I had an unfortunate experience with a very ill child on a Saturday night / Sunday morning in an Irish a&e department with drunken fuckups. In the words of Ben Sharpio " facts dont care about your feelings ".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 22, 2022, 11:18:46 PM
Male can expect to live to 87, where do you get this, there 1 man around where I lived past the 87 mark, last man since my granddad died In 2003. Living 74 with his weight issues was fairly good, covid or not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 22, 2022, 11:31:40 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 22, 2022, 11:18:46 PM
Male can expect to live to 87, where do you get this, there 1 man around where I lived past the 87 mark, last man since my granddad died In 2003. Living 74 with his weight issues was fairly good, covid or not.

He didn't say that, he said that if you are 74 than you can expect to live another dozen years, although this might not have been true of Meatloaf. While life expectancy in Ireland is 80 for men obviously half live longer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on January 22, 2022, 11:42:32 PM
Quote from: Rudi on January 22, 2022, 09:21:04 PM
Back to the real  Irish pandemic tonight for the poor hoors that have to work in a&e departments up & down our wonderful country. Young lads & women drinking quantities of drink their bodies & minds cant possibly sustain. If there was one blessing of Covid & partial lockdowns, twas the respite our a&e departments got from the lack of drunken, violent, ungrateful assholes shown up bloodied & battered looking for attention. Maybe these fookers need a pass in future to enter premises that sell alcohol. People like these pose a far greater problem to themselves & society than the covid unvaccinated ever did.

Good point!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 22, 2022, 11:42:51 PM
If u 74, u maker be coming any time, If i make that age, I not be expecting another dozen yrs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 22, 2022, 11:44:38 PM
Quote from: Rudi on January 22, 2022, 10:59:31 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 22, 2022, 10:45:59 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 22, 2022, 10:41:36 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 22, 2022, 10:31:31 PM
There's an extraordinary air of negativity from some posters about restrictions being eased.

Absolute covid junkies.

who? I think there is one recent poster who said they would be more cautious as they expect a large number of cases (seems a reasonable expectation and NPHET said similar) but I've not seen any other negative posts...

Since the Meatloaf conversation dried up....

The problem is you won't have herd immunity. People have been reinfected with omicron within 5 or 6 weeks.

There is going to a shed load of cases in the next fortnight, perhaps half a million people,

This whole jump into two footed in the Republic seems very odd to me.

Back to the real  Irish pandemic tonight for the poor hoors that have to work in a&e departments

Wobbler the last quote is from myself, no one could call me a Covid junkie. I had an unfortunate experience with a very ill child on a Saturday night / Sunday morning in an Irish a&e department with drunken fuckups. In the words of Ben Sharpio " facts dont care about your feelings ".

Hope the child is doing ok now. You'd despair sometimes seeing idiots like that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 22, 2022, 11:49:37 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 22, 2022, 11:42:51 PM
If u 74, u maker be coming any time, If i make that age, I not be expecting another dozen yrs.


You'll not be saying that when you're 73, seems daft that you'd be happy to reach that age and hang up your boots happy to get to that age
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on January 22, 2022, 11:51:20 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 22, 2022, 04:02:17 PM
Meatloaf was the picture of health all his life ffs get a grip
74 year old obese man with heart disease and asthma dies.  Shocker
Take the L and move on Gmac
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 22, 2022, 11:57:45 PM
The amount of men over 80 in my local graveyard is very limited,, no way 50% of men live to over 80,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on January 23, 2022, 12:01:31 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 22, 2022, 11:57:45 PM
The amount of men over 80 in my local graveyard is very limited,, no way 50% of men live to over 80,
I think you need have a wee think about that one wildweasel. Alot if them ain't in the ground yet lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2022, 12:02:55 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 22, 2022, 11:57:45 PM
The amount of men over 80 in my local graveyard is very limited,, no way 50% of men live to over 80,

You walk around most graveyards I'd say they'd mainly be younger that 70 never mind 80. Does that change the current average age of people dying?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 23, 2022, 12:14:05 AM
Of course, men live about 2 years less in occupied Ireland.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2022, 12:20:52 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 23, 2022, 12:14:05 AM
Of course, men live about 2 years less in occupied Ireland.

Are you replying to me?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 23, 2022, 12:33:53 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 22, 2022, 11:57:45 PM
The amount of men over 80 in my local graveyard is very limited,, no way 50% of men live to over 80,

Well if they're still living they aren't going to be in the graveyard  :P
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 23, 2022, 01:17:05 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2022, 12:20:52 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 23, 2022, 12:14:05 AM
Of course, men live about 2 years less in occupied Ireland.

Are you replying to me?

Not really. It is just a piece of data.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 23, 2022, 07:10:01 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 23, 2022, 12:02:55 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 22, 2022, 11:57:45 PM
The amount of men over 80 in my local graveyard is very limited,, no way 50% of men live to over 80,

You walk around most graveyards I'd say they'd mainly be younger that 70 never mind 80. Does that change the current average age of people dying?
Age of people dying is a function of social class in Ireland and elsewhere.
Ireland is very unequal on both sides of the border.
Manual labourers are twice as likely to die than doctors and lawyers.
Over a lifetime that would translate into dying in their 70s rather than 80s.

https://www.esri.ie/publications/socio-economic-differentials-in-male-mortality-in-ireland-1984-2008
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 23, 2022, 07:32:28 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kingston-mills-is-covid-gone-or-will-dangers-keep-lurking-1.4782529

In Ireland, it would be prudent to retain measures that minimise transmission of the virus in the population until hospital admission with Covid-19 has reduced to low levels. The use of Covid certificates based on three vaccine doses, or two doses and recovery from Omicron infection, would ensure a safer full return to hospitality, entertainment and sporting events, and would encourage uptake of booster vaccines. When applied to international travel, they would also prevent further importation of Sars-CoV-2 from countries that still have high circulating levels of the virus. The argument for vaccine equity for developing countries, where vaccine coverage is still shocking low, is stronger than ever. The pandemic will never be over until all countries have equal access to vaccines.

Mutation emergence

The biggest cloud on the horizon is the emergence of new variants that are as transmissible as Omicron but completely escape immunity induced by the current vaccines. There is a strong possibility that further Sars-CoV-2 variants will emerge, but it is impossible to predict when, and what effect the next mutations will have on transmission, immunity and disease severity. If new variants are minimally different from Omicron, then an Omicron-specific vaccine or a previous infection with Omicron in vaccinated individuals should still confer protective immunity.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 23, 2022, 08:05:20 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 22, 2022, 11:57:45 PM
The amount of men over 80 in my local graveyard is very limited,, no way 50% of men live to over 80,

You obviously don't understand what's being said here and are displaying a real level of ignorance. The facts are if you make it to 74 and you're a male your most likely age of death is 87. That number would be very different if your age at the moment is 30 or 40.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 23, 2022, 12:06:28 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 23, 2022, 08:05:20 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 22, 2022, 11:57:45 PM
The amount of men over 80 in my local graveyard is very limited,, no way 50% of men live to over 80,

You obviously don't understand what's being said here and are displaying a real level of ignorance. The facts are if you make it to 74 and you're a male your most likely age of death is 87. That number would be very different if your age at the moment is 30 or 40.

Anyway, the poor man's passed away now so best left at that rather than using his death for some sort point scoring exercise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 23, 2022, 01:03:15 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 23, 2022, 08:05:20 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 22, 2022, 11:57:45 PM
The amount of men over 80 in my local graveyard is very limited,, no way 50% of men live to over 80,

You obviously don't understand what's being said here and are displaying a real level of ignorance. The facts are if you make it to 74 and you're a male your most likely age of death is 87. That number would be very different if your age at the moment is 30 or 40.
That would depend on your social class.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 23, 2022, 01:38:11 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 23, 2022, 01:03:15 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 23, 2022, 08:05:20 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 22, 2022, 11:57:45 PM
The amount of men over 80 in my local graveyard is very limited,, no way 50% of men live to over 80,

You obviously don't understand what's being said here and are displaying a real level of ignorance. The facts are if you make it to 74 and you're a male your most likely age of death is 87. That number would be very different if your age at the moment is 30 or 40.
That would depend on your social class.

Not just your social class, there are lots of variables. It is a fact though that for the average male who lives to 74 he can then expect to go on to live to 87.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 23, 2022, 01:42:43 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/irlagainstfash/status/1484669319673962500?s=24 (https://mobile.twitter.com/irlagainstfash/status/1484669319673962500?s=24)

Would sicken you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 23, 2022, 02:51:59 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 23, 2022, 01:42:43 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/irlagainstfash/status/1484669319673962500?s=24 (https://mobile.twitter.com/irlagainstfash/status/1484669319673962500?s=24)

Would sicken you.

f**k me! :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: HiMucker on January 23, 2022, 02:54:02 PM
She is a complete whack job. Disgraceful stuff
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 23, 2022, 03:12:21 PM
Bonkers. And people listen to her :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on January 23, 2022, 03:15:49 PM
She looks disturbed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 23, 2022, 04:57:24 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 23, 2022, 02:54:02 PM
She is a complete whack job. Disgraceful stuff

I saw a good tweet today that the government had got rid of masks because it was interfering with their facial recognition and that anyone concerned about freedom should make sure to wear one!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 23, 2022, 05:27:21 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 23, 2022, 04:57:24 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 23, 2022, 02:54:02 PM
She is a complete whack job. Disgraceful stuff

I saw a good tweet today that the government had got rid of masks because it was interfering with their facial recognition and that anyone concerned about freedom should make sure to wear one!

PLEASE show us a link if you can  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 23, 2022, 05:51:20 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 23, 2022, 03:12:21 PM
Bonkers. And people listen to her :o

The thing is, alot of people who listen to her have been patients of McCloskey down through the years. The trust her as a GP. She has lead them down the garden path. The woman, with her stance from the beginning of this pandemic has blood on her hands. Like other Covid anti-vax Irish folk, has aligned herself with the ultra right wing.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 23, 2022, 07:40:12 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 23, 2022, 02:54:02 PM
She is a complete whack job. Disgraceful stuff

Sadly seems to have lost the plot . Glad Aontú got shot of her.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on January 23, 2022, 10:11:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 23, 2022, 07:40:12 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 23, 2022, 02:54:02 PM
She is a complete whack job. Disgraceful stuff

Sadly seems to have lost the plot . Glad Aontú got shot of her.
Not sure they have stepped too far away from her thinking, judging by the election ads and posters they are running. Talking about damaging covid policies. It looks like they are aiming for the anti vax right wing catholic vote.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 23, 2022, 11:39:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 23, 2022, 10:11:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 23, 2022, 07:40:12 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 23, 2022, 02:54:02 PM
She is a complete whack job. Disgraceful stuff

Sadly seems to have lost the plot . Glad Aontú got shot of her.
Not sure they have stepped too far away from her thinking, judging by the election ads and posters they are running. Talking about damaging covid policies. It looks like they are aiming for the anti vax right wing catholic vote.

They are nowhere even close to right wing and they have supported the vaccines whole way through, that's not the same as criticising other policies that may have been open to questioning
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on January 24, 2022, 01:12:36 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 23, 2022, 11:39:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 23, 2022, 10:11:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 23, 2022, 07:40:12 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 23, 2022, 02:54:02 PM
She is a complete whack job. Disgraceful stuff

Sadly seems to have lost the plot . Glad Aontú got shot of her.
Not sure they have stepped too far away from her thinking, judging by the election ads and posters they are running. Talking about damaging covid policies. It looks like they are aiming for the anti vax right wing catholic vote.

They are nowhere even close to right wing and they have supported the vaccines whole way through, that's not the same as criticising other policies that may have been open to questioning

Fair enough. By right wing I meant socially conservative.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 24, 2022, 01:21:44 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 24, 2022, 01:12:36 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 23, 2022, 11:39:55 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 23, 2022, 10:11:13 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 23, 2022, 07:40:12 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 23, 2022, 02:54:02 PM
She is a complete whack job. Disgraceful stuff

Sadly seems to have lost the plot . Glad Aontú got shot of her.
Not sure they have stepped too far away from her thinking, judging by the election ads and posters they are running. Talking about damaging covid policies. It looks like they are aiming for the anti vax right wing catholic vote.

They are nowhere even close to right wing and they have supported the vaccines whole way through, that's not the same as criticising other policies that may have been open to questioning

Fair enough. By right wing I meant socially conservative.

yes socially conservative on the abortion issue, but that isnt right wing either, it suited others to say that during the referendum.

Anyhow arent we all pro choice now-sorry I mean depending on the issue ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 24, 2022, 03:28:45 PM
Are vaccine passports still needed in the south for nightclubs/concerts or is that just the north?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 24, 2022, 03:51:11 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 24, 2022, 03:28:45 PM
Are vaccine passports still needed in the south for nightclubs/concerts or is that just the north?

Nothing now, although I think a lot of places are still using the advance booking because it suits them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 24, 2022, 03:56:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 24, 2022, 03:51:11 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 24, 2022, 03:28:45 PM
Are vaccine passports still needed in the south for nightclubs/concerts or is that just the north?

Nothing now, although I think a lot of places are still using the advance booking because it suits them.
Looking forward to Coppers after we bate the Dubs Saturday evening so ;). (Have the vaccine cert app for the north but not the eu one, saves me trying yo download it)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 24, 2022, 11:38:26 PM
This boy seems to think it's all over bar the shouting.

He was very vociferous at the beginning, so hopefully that's a good sign.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/dr-mike-ryan-of-the-who-even-if-a-new-variant-emerges-we-should-be-alright-1.4784843
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on January 25, 2022, 08:53:45 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 21, 2022, 03:07:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 21, 2022, 01:53:03 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 01:50:55 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 21, 2022, 01:07:08 PM
Quote from: laoislad on January 21, 2022, 12:51:05 PM
Quote from: savocake on January 21, 2022, 12:03:51 PM
Anyone here have thon booster jab? Got a text there telling to get it heard it leaves a brave few people in bad oul shape.
Felt shite for a full day after it. Was like a very bad hangover. Was grand though the next day.
Got that text from the HSE also but had already got my booster at that stage.

Yip same as that and most people I know have been the same. I had no side effects from the 1st two. A dirty hangover is the best description of it.
Cheers men for the advice on the booster jab. It seems fine but I'm not going to risk it. If I wanted a hangover I'd just go to the pub

What risk is there if you've already had the other two?

What are the benefits if you already have the other 2?

These vaccines and associated immunity wane with time, I'd have thought the clue was in the name, i.e. booster jab.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 25, 2022, 09:20:59 PM
Olavo de Carvalho, the coronavirus-denying mentor of Jair Bolsonaro and Brazil's radical right, has died in the United States from Covid. He did a lot of harm as many Brazilians refused the vaccine on his advice, so he was responsible for many deaths. As I've said before though these Covid deniers, anti vax nut jobs are a dying breed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 25, 2022, 09:31:45 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 25, 2022, 09:20:59 PM
Olavo de Carvalho, the coronavirus-denying mentor of Jair Bolsonaro and Brazil's radical right, has died in the United States from Covid. He did a lot of harm as many Brazilians refused the vaccine on his advice, so he was responsible for many deaths. As I've said before though these Covid deniers, anti vax nut jobs are a dying breed.

I see Sarah Palin got it, a good dose for a Dose.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 25, 2022, 10:33:14 PM
Strange behaviour
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 27, 2022, 12:33:26 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/d402d072-f19a-4f75-80c6-e6973c3137cd

The lead scientist on the Zoe Covid study has said coronavirus infections in the UK have risen, as children return to schools and a subtype of the Omicron variant of coronavirus emerges.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on January 27, 2022, 12:57:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 27, 2022, 12:33:26 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/d402d072-f19a-4f75-80c6-e6973c3137cd

The lead scientist on the Zoe Covid study has said coronavirus infections in the UK have risen, as children return to schools and a subtype of the Omicron variant of coronavirus emerges.

It's over
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 27, 2022, 04:35:48 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 25, 2022, 09:20:59 PM
Olavo de Carvalho, the coronavirus-denying mentor of Jair Bolsonaro and Brazil's radical right, has died in the United States from Covid. He did a lot of harm as many Brazilians refused the vaccine on his advice, so he was responsible for many deaths. As I've said before though these Covid deniers, anti vax nut jobs are a dying breed.
another 74 year old with health problems dies , is water wet ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 27, 2022, 08:36:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 27, 2022, 04:35:48 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 25, 2022, 09:20:59 PM
Olavo de Carvalho, the coronavirus-denying mentor of Jair Bolsonaro and Brazil's radical right, has died in the United States from Covid. He did a lot of harm as many Brazilians refused the vaccine on his advice, so he was responsible for many deaths. As I've said before though these Covid deniers, anti vax nut jobs are a dying breed.
another 74 year old with health problems dies , is water wet ?

Most people who live to 74 have some health problems. They also can expect to live on through to 87 in the UK if they've made it to 74. Unfortunately many, many people in their 60s/70s with relatively minor health problems have had decades taken from their lives because of covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2022, 08:50:37 PM
https://www.derryjournal.com/news/people/life-expectancy-fall-poorer-derry-women-2523682

Sorry but it's 72 for men in working class Derry city where I am from. But then again we aren't like anywhere in North in terms of deprivation bar some parts of Belfast.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on January 28, 2022, 12:19:27 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2022, 08:50:37 PM
https://www.derryjournal.com/news/people/life-expectancy-fall-poorer-derry-women-2523682

Sorry but it's 72 for men in working class Derry city where I am from. But then again we aren't like anywhere in North in terms of deprivation bar some parts of Belfast.

You're not understanding how it works.

Life expectancy at birth for men in Derry may well be 72, but life expectancy changes as you age.

For example, childhood mortality is a major depressing force on life expectancy. Think things like congenital anomalies that have life limiting impacts on children. But if you've made it to 74, then you're well passed these childhood dangers and can therefore expect a lifespan that is a bit longer than the average.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 28, 2022, 08:14:18 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2022, 08:50:37 PM
https://www.derryjournal.com/news/people/life-expectancy-fall-poorer-derry-women-2523682

Sorry but it's 72 for men in working class Derry city where I am from. But then again we aren't like anywhere in North in terms of deprivation bar some parts of Belfast.

That makes hard reading. Whole host of factors nearly all linked to deprivation at play.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 28, 2022, 08:22:44 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on January 27, 2022, 12:57:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 27, 2022, 12:33:26 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/d402d072-f19a-4f75-80c6-e6973c3137cd

The lead scientist on the Zoe Covid study has said coronavirus infections in the UK have risen, as children return to schools and a subtype of the Omicron variant of coronavirus emerges.

It's over

https://www.ft.com/content/f681bdeb-f93a-4ec4-8356-77caf70f1c28

One risk is that Covid is not brought under control. The most urgent task is to make vaccination effective, which is a challenge to scientists, businesses and health systems. It is also crucial to gain and keep public trust.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 28, 2022, 09:48:33 AM
Quote from: Ed Ricketts on January 28, 2022, 12:19:27 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on January 27, 2022, 08:50:37 PM
https://www.derryjournal.com/news/people/life-expectancy-fall-poorer-derry-women-2523682

Sorry but it's 72 for men in working class Derry city where I am from. But then again we aren't like anywhere in North in terms of deprivation bar some parts of Belfast.

You're not understanding how it works.

Life expectancy at birth for men in Derry may well be 72, but life expectancy changes as you age.

For example, childhood mortality is a major depressing force on life expectancy. Think things like congenital anomalies that have life limiting impacts on children. But if you've made it to 74, then you're well passed these childhood dangers and can therefore expect a lifespan that is a bit longer than the average.

Oh I understand, all my grandparents were dead by the time they were 72
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 28, 2022, 09:45:24 PM
Transparent decision making is essential.

At least three of the many companies making covid-19 vaccines have past criminal and civil settlements costing them billions of dollars
The BMJ supports vaccination policies based on sound evidence.
The same applies to treatments for covid-19
Data must be available when trial results are announced, published, or used to justify regulatory decisions.
There is no place for wholesale exemptions from good practice during a pandemic.

Covid-19 vaccines and treatments: we must have raw data, now
https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o102
(https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o102)
Data should be fully and immediately available for public scrutiny

Dr John Campbell - Data, we want it all
https://youtu.be/YDxkloJ-4kE (https://youtu.be/YDxkloJ-4kE)

Pfizer has indicated that it will not begin entertaining requests for trial data until May 2025, (NCT04368728).

Moderna data may be available ... with publication of the final study results in 2022
Datasets will be available upon request and subject to review once the trial is complete
Estimated primary completion date 27 October 2022 (NCT04470427).

Regeneron's phase III trial of monoclonal antibody therapy REGEN-COV
Participant level data will not be made available to others EMU)
Should the drug be approved, sharing will be considered
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 28, 2022, 10:22:09 PM
 Another quote from that BMJ article. I'm sure it will get shot down as an anti-vaccination article but it really isn't. Release the data.

   ' Pharmaceutical companies are reaping vast profits without adequate independent scrutiny of their scientific claims.33
           The purpose of regulators is not to dance to the tune of rich global corporations and enrich them further; it is to protect the health of their populations.
       We need complete data transparency for all studies, we need it in the public interest, and we need it now '.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 31, 2022, 12:38:21 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/government-e2-80-98set-for-u-turn-e2-80-99-on-mandatory-vaccines-for-health-workers/ar-AATje8m?ocid=uxbndlbing

Looks like the Mandatory covid 19 vaccinations for frontline nhs workers in England is being removed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 31, 2022, 07:45:25 AM
Glad to see that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on January 31, 2022, 09:59:57 AM
https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-doctors-australia-5665863-Jan2022/

No wonder the over paid Paul Reid was concerned about numbers in ICU during the pandemic. I wonder if the tax payer was to be reimbursed the massive funding given to these doctors during their education would they be as keen to leave Ireland?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 31, 2022, 10:18:14 AM
How about we out the people who let it get to this. Its unfair that we expect mecics to enslave themselves in this shit show when there is a better life elsewhere. The fact that better is possible yet we continue on as normal looking for bullshit excuses.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 31, 2022, 11:17:38 AM
Quote from: Rudi on January 31, 2022, 09:59:57 AM
https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-doctors-australia-5665863-Jan2022/

No wonder the over paid Paul Reid was concerned about numbers in ICU during the pandemic. I wonder if the tax payer was to be reimbursed the massive funding given to these doctors during their education would they be as keen to leave Ireland?

As that article says "Ireland has the highest number of medical graduates per population of all OECD and EU countries (24.4 per 100,000 of the population), the statement pointed out." People will always want experience abroad etc, we only have to ensure that they have proper conditions here. There needs to be multiyear planning for the skills required.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Shamrock Shore on January 31, 2022, 11:50:32 AM
Seems like a "well known Irish celebrity in his 40s" has been arrested for presenting fake covid certs to travel.

Cor blimey - that sort of craic would leave you breathless.............
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 31, 2022, 11:55:55 AM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 31, 2022, 11:50:32 AM
Seems like a "well known Irish celebrity in his 40s" has been arrested for presenting fake covid certs to travel.

Cor blimey - that sort of craic would leave you breathless.............

;D

Hilarious on who it is and how you did that SS  ;D

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wolfetones on January 31, 2022, 11:58:47 AM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 31, 2022, 11:50:32 AM
Seems like a "well known Irish celebrity in his 40s" has been arrested for presenting fake covid certs to travel.

Cor blimey - that sort of craic would leave you breathless.............

Did he not manage to runaway....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on January 31, 2022, 01:05:01 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 31, 2022, 11:50:32 AM
Seems like a "well known Irish celebrity in his 40s" has been arrested for presenting fake covid certs to travel.

Cor blimey - that sort of craic would leave you breathless.............

Funny lol but I don't think it is him as he wouldn't be in his forties?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Shamrock Shore on January 31, 2022, 01:08:41 PM
Quote from: clarshack on January 31, 2022, 01:05:01 PM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on January 31, 2022, 11:50:32 AM
Seems like a "well known Irish celebrity in his 40s" has been arrested for presenting fake covid certs to travel.

Cor blimey - that sort of craic would leave you breathless.............

Funny lol but I don't think it is him as he wouldn't be in his forties?

Ye Gads. You are right. I thought that lad was younger.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 31, 2022, 01:23:50 PM
Is it true they're a country western singer?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on February 03, 2022, 02:51:58 PM
Very quiet here things must be going good
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on February 04, 2022, 06:55:36 PM
If you get a positive LFT one day and a negative the next day what are the chances of the first one being a false positive ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 04, 2022, 07:21:28 PM
It is estimated that one person in 15 in NI had Covid in the last week in January. At that rate everyone will have it shortly.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on February 04, 2022, 07:38:07 PM
I just want to confirm that if traveling by plane from Belfast to Edinburgh  no covid related paperwork is required, it's a DUP paradise scenario?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 04, 2022, 10:12:39 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 04, 2022, 07:38:07 PM
I just want to confirm that if traveling by plane from Belfast to Edinburgh  no covid related paperwork is required, it's a DUP paradise scenario?

If you were a cow or sheep then you'd need to be inspected.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 04, 2022, 11:25:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2022, 07:21:28 PM
It is estimated that one person in 15 in NI had Covid in the last week in January. At that rate everyone will have it shortly.

Yep. Whole family had it. Old and young. No issues thanks be to God.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on February 04, 2022, 11:39:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 04, 2022, 11:25:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2022, 07:21:28 PM
It is estimated that one person in 15 in NI had Covid in the last week in January. At that rate everyone will have it shortly.

Yep. Whole family had it. Old and young. No issues thanks be to God.

3 out of 4 for us Fear. 1 of the family had it for the 2nd time. Night and day re they're first dose at the tail end of 2020 and the Omicron thank god. Have a good friend, serious cyclist who is getting it very tight atm.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 04, 2022, 11:52:05 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on February 04, 2022, 11:39:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 04, 2022, 11:25:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2022, 07:21:28 PM
It is estimated that one person in 15 in NI had Covid in the last week in January. At that rate everyone will have it shortly.

Yep. Whole family had it. Old and young. No issues thanks be to God.

3 out of 4 for us Fear. 1 of the family had it for the 2nd time. Night and day re they're first dose at the tail end of 2020 and the Omicron thank god. Have a good friend, serious cyclist who is getting it very tight atm.

Yeah that seems to be pattern, mostly less serious but cases that can still cause big issues. Hope yer mucker gets well soon Jog2. Doire Abú
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2022, 12:05:43 AM
Struggling to work out how none of my immediate family have avoided it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on February 05, 2022, 12:10:43 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 04, 2022, 11:52:05 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on February 04, 2022, 11:39:59 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 04, 2022, 11:25:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 04, 2022, 07:21:28 PM
It is estimated that one person in 15 in NI had Covid in the last week in January. At that rate everyone will have it shortly.

Yep. Whole family had it. Old and young. No issues thanks be to God.

3 out of 4 for us Fear. 1 of the family had it for the 2nd time. Night and day re they're first dose at the tail end of 2020 and the Omicron thank god. Have a good friend, serious cyclist who is getting it very tight atm.

Yeah that seems to be pattern, mostly less serious but cases that can still cause big issues. Hope yer mucker gets well soon Jog2. Doire Abú

Sláinte Fear. Take her handy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on February 07, 2022, 12:18:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2022, 12:05:43 AM
Struggling to work out how none of my immediate family have avoided it.

They are probably all vaccinated!  ;D

Vaccination has done a seriously great job in Israel where nearly everyone is Vaccinated and boosted twice!  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on February 08, 2022, 02:16:21 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 07, 2022, 12:18:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2022, 12:05:43 AM
Struggling to work out how none of my immediate family have avoided it.

They are probably all vaccinated!  ;D

Vaccination has done a seriously great job in Israel where nearly everyone is Vaccinated and boosted twice!  ;)
the rats in government over here want to talk about natural immunity now like it's a new phenomenon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on February 08, 2022, 09:01:46 PM
Covid survivors are 63% more likely to suffer a heart attack, according to the "first comprehensive assessment" of cardiovascular complications within a year of recovering from the virus.

An in-depth analysis of federal health data indicates that people who have had COVID-19 are at increased risk of developing cardiovascular complications within the first month to a year after infection. Such complications include disruptive heart rhythms, inflammation of the heart, blood clots, stroke, coronary artery disease, heart attack, heart failure or even death.

Such problems occur even among previously healthy individuals and those who have had mild COVID-19 infections, according to the study, from researchers at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis and the Veterans Affairs St. Louis Health Care System.

The research is published Feb. 7 in Nature Medicine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 08, 2022, 09:39:41 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 08, 2022, 09:01:46 PM
Covid survivors are 63% more likely to suffer a heart attack, according to the "first comprehensive assessment" of cardiovascular complications within a year of recovering from the virus.

An in-depth analysis of federal health data indicates that people who have had COVID-19 are at increased risk of developing cardiovascular complications within the first month to a year after infection. Such complications include disruptive heart rhythms, inflammation of the heart, blood clots, stroke, coronary artery disease, heart attack, heart failure or even death.

Such problems occur even among previously healthy individuals and those who have had mild COVID-19 infections, according to the study, from researchers at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis and the Veterans Affairs St. Louis Health Care System.

The research is published Feb. 7 in Nature Medicine.

Ok
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 09, 2022, 01:13:05 AM
Excess deaths in the 2 years in the US are now over 1 Million according to the CDC, this would capture people with heart problems etc a year later or people who treatment is delayed.  In two years about 5.7 million would die in the normal case, so 1 million more is a 17.5% increase, which is not inconsiderable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on February 09, 2022, 07:24:34 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 08, 2022, 09:39:41 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 08, 2022, 09:01:46 PM
Covid survivors are 63% more likely to suffer a heart attack, according to the "first comprehensive assessment" of cardiovascular complications within a year of recovering from the virus.

An in-depth analysis of federal health data indicates that people who have had COVID-19 are at increased risk of developing cardiovascular complications within the first month to a year after infection. Such complications include disruptive heart rhythms, inflammation of the heart, blood clots, stroke, coronary artery disease, heart attack, heart failure or even death.

Such problems occur even among previously healthy individuals and those who have had mild COVID-19 infections, according to the study, from researchers at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis and the Veterans Affairs St. Louis Health Care System.

The research is published Feb. 7 in Nature Medicine.

Ok
The previously healthy bit immediately raises a flag for me considering the health status of the average American.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on February 09, 2022, 09:48:32 AM
Quote from: Gmac on February 08, 2022, 02:16:21 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 07, 2022, 12:18:06 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2022, 12:05:43 AM
Struggling to work out how none of my immediate family have avoided it.

They are probably all vaccinated!  ;D

Vaccination has done a seriously great job in Israel where nearly everyone is Vaccinated and boosted twice!  ;)
the rats in government over here want to talk about natural immunity now like it's a new phenomenon.

Rats?

God forbid they wait for data to back up their public health policies. You know, like responsible professionals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 09, 2022, 10:47:07 AM
Quote from: Last Man on February 09, 2022, 07:24:34 AM
The previously healthy bit immediately raises a flag for me considering the health status of the average American.

So you do not trust the researchers and the people who reviewed their paper? What is your PhD in?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on February 09, 2022, 12:07:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2022, 10:47:07 AM
Quote from: Last Man on February 09, 2022, 07:24:34 AM
The previously healthy bit immediately raises a flag for me considering the health status of the average American.

So you do not trust the researchers and the people who reviewed their paper? What is your PhD in?
I sense you are anxious but you are not alone as psychologists have identified CAS(Covid Anxiety Syndrome) as a condition but there's no value in you trying to have a cut at me just because I don't agree with you or anyone else. One thing we are now much clearer on is that science is not always objective and frequently serves a particular agenda or biases. Having taken an active interest in my own and family's health in the last 2 years I am given to understand that the medical understanding of fundamental human health has a way to go. However when you also see that there is way more interest in medicating all the conditions we have inflicted on ourselves root cause will never be mainstream.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 09, 2022, 12:11:27 PM
Quote from: Last Man on February 09, 2022, 12:07:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2022, 10:47:07 AM
Quote from: Last Man on February 09, 2022, 07:24:34 AM
The previously healthy bit immediately raises a flag for me considering the health status of the average American.

So you do not trust the researchers and the people who reviewed their paper? What is your PhD in?
I sense you are anxious but you are not alone as psychologists have identified CAS(Covid Anxiety Syndrome) as a condition but there's no value in you trying to have a cut at me just because I don't agree with you or anyone else. One thing we are now much clearer on is that science is not always objective and frequently serves a particular agenda or biases. Having taken an active interest in my own and family's health in the last 2 years I am given to understand that the medical understanding of fundamental human health has a way to go. However when you also see that there is way more interest in medicating all the conditions we have inflicted on ourselves root cause will never be mainstream.

I give the opinion of randomers on the Internet little weight when compared to structured refereed research. We all know long Covid exists.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on February 09, 2022, 12:26:37 PM
Quote from: Last Man on February 09, 2022, 07:24:34 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on February 08, 2022, 09:39:41 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 08, 2022, 09:01:46 PM
Covid survivors are 63% more likely to suffer a heart attack, according to the "first comprehensive assessment" of cardiovascular complications within a year of recovering from the virus.

An in-depth analysis of federal health data indicates that people who have had COVID-19 are at increased risk of developing cardiovascular complications within the first month to a year after infection. Such complications include disruptive heart rhythms, inflammation of the heart, blood clots, stroke, coronary artery disease, heart attack, heart failure or even death.

Such problems occur even among previously healthy individuals and those who have had mild COVID-19 infections, according to the study, from researchers at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis and the Veterans Affairs St. Louis Health Care System.

The research is published Feb. 7 in Nature Medicine.

Ok
The previously healthy bit immediately raises a flag for me considering the health status of the average American.

All mitigating factors like age, weight, pre existing conditions would've been taken into account before publication of this kind of study.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on February 09, 2022, 12:36:18 PM
Quote from: Last Man on February 09, 2022, 12:07:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2022, 10:47:07 AM
Quote from: Last Man on February 09, 2022, 07:24:34 AM
The previously healthy bit immediately raises a flag for me considering the health status of the average American.

So you do not trust the researchers and the people who reviewed their paper? What is your PhD in?
I sense you are anxious but you are not alone as psychologists have identified CAS(Covid Anxiety Syndrome) as a condition but there's no value in you trying to have a cut at me just because I don't agree with you or anyone else. One thing we are now much clearer on is that science is not always objective and frequently serves a particular agenda or biases. Having taken an active interest in my own and family's health in the last 2 years I am given to understand that the medical understanding of fundamental human health has a way to go. However when you also see that there is way more interest in medicating all the conditions we have inflicted on ourselves root cause will never be mainstream.

Christ above, Dunning Kruger alert.

He's pointed out that that your grand sweeping statement about the health status of Americans, or dismissing the research, is baseless and not backed up back anything apart from your own elevated opinions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on February 09, 2022, 12:45:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2022, 12:05:43 AM
Struggling to work out how none of my immediate family have avoided it.

On the other hand, one of my kids currently has it, albeit with very mild symptoms. Ten days on from his positive tests, none of the rest of us have caught it, despite sharing a small house and saying "f**k it" and expecting to get it. He's due back to school tomorrow, and I think we are all in the clear if we don't get it by the weekend. Myself and the wife are boosted, both kids fully vaccinated.

Thankfully, the rest of us have been able to work/go to school as normal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 09, 2022, 01:01:40 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 09, 2022, 12:36:18 PM
He's pointed out that that your grand sweeping statement about the health status of Americans, or dismissing the research, is baseless and not backed up back anything apart from your own elevated opinions.

Specifically, I am making Lenny's point that mitigating factors like age, weight, pre existing conditions would've been taken into account before publication of this kind of study. The researchers know well the state of health in the US.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on February 09, 2022, 01:29:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2022, 01:01:40 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 09, 2022, 12:36:18 PM
He's pointed out that that your grand sweeping statement about the health status of Americans, or dismissing the research, is baseless and not backed up back anything apart from your own elevated opinions.

Specifically, I am making Lenny's point that mitigating factors like age, weight, pre existing conditions would've been taken into account before publication of this kind of study. The researchers know well the state of health in the US.

It never ceases to amaze how ignorant so much of the public is about how experimental design and statistical analysis works.

Not saying its foolproof at the individual level (that's partly what peer review is for), but as if a trained scientist is going to fail to account for and control bleeding obvious confounding factors which would sink their study and also hurt their career.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on February 09, 2022, 10:10:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 09, 2022, 01:29:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2022, 01:01:40 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 09, 2022, 12:36:18 PM
He's pointed out that that your grand sweeping statement about the health status of Americans, or dismissing the research, is baseless and not backed up back anything apart from your own elevated opinions.

Specifically, I am making Lenny's point that mitigating factors like age, weight, pre existing conditions would've been taken into account before publication of this kind of study. The researchers know well the state of health in the US.

It never ceases to amaze how ignorant so much of the public is about how experimental design and statistical analysis works.

Not saying its foolproof at the individual level (that's partly what peer review is for), but as if a trained scientist is going to fail to account for and control bleeding obvious confounding factors which would sink their study and also hurt their career.
Fair play to the lads for trying to engage with Last Man to try and educate him. But the chap is happy to be ignorant
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on February 10, 2022, 09:00:51 AM
Quote from: Hound on February 09, 2022, 10:10:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 09, 2022, 01:29:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2022, 01:01:40 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 09, 2022, 12:36:18 PM
He's pointed out that that your grand sweeping statement about the health status of Americans, or dismissing the research, is baseless and not backed up back anything apart from your own elevated opinions.

Specifically, I am making Lenny's point that mitigating factors like age, weight, pre existing conditions would've been taken into account before publication of this kind of study. The researchers know well the state of health in the US.

It never ceases to amaze how ignorant so much of the public is about how experimental design and statistical analysis works.

Not saying its foolproof at the individual level (that's partly what peer review is for), but as if a trained scientist is going to fail to account for and control bleeding obvious confounding factors which would sink their study and also hurt their career.
Fair play to the lads for trying to engage with Last Man to try and educate him. But the chap is happy to be ignorant
Ignorant! That's a bit heavy lads. Scientists are no better than the rest of us in terms of ego, bias etc so you have to be a little sceptical in all these things. If you go deeper with the research that is going on with the gut micro biome and personalised nutrition there is so much that the scientists are trying to figure out that there will be a seismic paradigm shift that will big implications for metabolic and mental health.
What significant changes have you made in your own lives to help you with the health crisis of the last 2 years, just wondering?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 10, 2022, 09:53:47 AM

Quote from: Last Man on February 10, 2022, 09:00:51 AM
Quote from: Hound on February 09, 2022, 10:10:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 09, 2022, 01:29:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2022, 01:01:40 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 09, 2022, 12:36:18 PM
He's pointed out that that your grand sweeping statement about the health status of Americans, or dismissing the research, is baseless and not backed up back anything apart from your own elevated opinions.

Specifically, I am making Lenny's point that mitigating factors like age, weight, pre existing conditions would've been taken into account before publication of this kind of study. The researchers know well the state of health in the US.

It never ceases to amaze how ignorant so much of the public is about how experimental design and statistical analysis works.

Not saying its foolproof at the individual level (that's partly what peer review is for), but as if a trained scientist is going to fail to account for and control bleeding obvious confounding factors which would sink their study and also hurt their career.
Fair play to the lads for trying to engage with Last Man to try and educate him. But the chap is happy to be ignorant
Ignorant! That's a bit heavy lads. Scientists are no better than the rest of us in terms of ego, bias etc so you have to be a little sceptical in all these things. If you go deeper with the research that is going on with the gut micro biome and personalised nutrition there is so much that the scientists are trying to figure out that there will be a seismic paradigm shift that will big implications for metabolic and mental health.
What significant changes have you made in your own lives to help you with the health crisis of the last 2 years, just wondering?

There's always shifts in science. It's constantly learning new things that make some of the previous information or assumptions redundant. There is nothing new in that. Nor will this shift be any different, and 5 years down the line this "paradigm shift" could be outdated as well. In fact with regards to these changes, I don't think any other industry has the amount of changes of direction the health and well being/ nutrition industry has.
With regarding the health crisis and changes, I've followed what was recommended- social distanced, more time outside, physical activity, took the vaccines when available.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on February 10, 2022, 10:21:00 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 10, 2022, 09:53:47 AM

Quote from: Last Man on February 10, 2022, 09:00:51 AM
Quote from: Hound on February 09, 2022, 10:10:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 09, 2022, 01:29:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2022, 01:01:40 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 09, 2022, 12:36:18 PM
He's pointed out that that your grand sweeping statement about the health status of Americans, or dismissing the research, is baseless and not backed up back anything apart from your own elevated opinions.

Specifically, I am making Lenny's point that mitigating factors like age, weight, pre existing conditions would've been taken into account before publication of this kind of study. The researchers know well the state of health in the US.

It never ceases to amaze how ignorant so much of the public is about how experimental design and statistical analysis works.

Not saying its foolproof at the individual level (that's partly what peer review is for), but as if a trained scientist is going to fail to account for and control bleeding obvious confounding factors which would sink their study and also hurt their career.
Fair play to the lads for trying to engage with Last Man to try and educate him. But the chap is happy to be ignorant
Ignorant! That's a bit heavy lads. Scientists are no better than the rest of us in terms of ego, bias etc so you have to be a little sceptical in all these things. If you go deeper with the research that is going on with the gut micro biome and personalised nutrition there is so much that the scientists are trying to figure out that there will be a seismic paradigm shift that will big implications for metabolic and mental health.
What significant changes have you made in your own lives to help you with the health crisis of the last 2 years, just wondering?

There's always shifts in science. It's constantly learning new things that make some of the previous information or assumptions redundant. There is nothing new in that. Nor will this shift be any different, and 5 years down the line this "paradigm shift" could be outdated as well. In fact with regards to these changes, I don't think any other industry has the amount of changes of direction the health and well being/ nutrition industry has.
With regarding the health crisis and changes, I've followed what was recommended- social distanced, more time outside, physical activity, took the vaccines when available.
Any thoughts on your blood markers? Things like HbA1c, insulin, triglycerides, cholesterol ratios, CRP? Can't just be blindly led by doctors, some of whom don't look the healthiest to me any way. It's an n=2 experiment in our hous but both of us have never felt better and just wish we had copped on to this sooner. I am thankful to Covid for something at least
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 10, 2022, 12:37:16 PM
Quote from: Last Man on February 10, 2022, 10:21:00 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 10, 2022, 09:53:47 AM

Quote from: Last Man on February 10, 2022, 09:00:51 AM
Quote from: Hound on February 09, 2022, 10:10:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 09, 2022, 01:29:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2022, 01:01:40 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 09, 2022, 12:36:18 PM
He's pointed out that that your grand sweeping statement about the health status of Americans, or dismissing the research, is baseless and not backed up back anything apart from your own elevated opinions.

Specifically, I am making Lenny's point that mitigating factors like age, weight, pre existing conditions would've been taken into account before publication of this kind of study. The researchers know well the state of health in the US.

It never ceases to amaze how ignorant so much of the public is about how experimental design and statistical analysis works.

Not saying its foolproof at the individual level (that's partly what peer review is for), but as if a trained scientist is going to fail to account for and control bleeding obvious confounding factors which would sink their study and also hurt their career.
Fair play to the lads for trying to engage with Last Man to try and educate him. But the chap is happy to be ignorant
Ignorant! That's a bit heavy lads. Scientists are no better than the rest of us in terms of ego, bias etc so you have to be a little sceptical in all these things. If you go deeper with the research that is going on with the gut micro biome and personalised nutrition there is so much that the scientists are trying to figure out that there will be a seismic paradigm shift that will big implications for metabolic and mental health.
What significant changes have you made in your own lives to help you with the health crisis of the last 2 years, just wondering?

There's always shifts in science. It's constantly learning new things that make some of the previous information or assumptions redundant. There is nothing new in that. Nor will this shift be any different, and 5 years down the line this "paradigm shift" could be outdated as well. In fact with regards to these changes, I don't think any other industry has the amount of changes of direction the health and well being/ nutrition industry has.
With regarding the health crisis and changes, I've followed what was recommended- social distanced, more time outside, physical activity, took the vaccines when available.
Any thoughts on your blood markers? Things like HbA1c, insulin, triglycerides, cholesterol ratios, CRP? Can't just be blindly led by doctors, some of whom don't look the healthiest to me any way. It's an n=2 experiment in our hous but both of us have never felt better and just wish we had copped on to this sooner. I am thankful to Covid for something at least

There's no issue with looking at additional information. But I'd still side with medical professionals advise over anyone else's unless it's supported by some very strong peer review research. I wouldn't be keen on just disregarding doctors opinions unless there's strong evidence to do so. That doesn't mean individual doctors aren't fallible. Second opinions are invaluable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on February 10, 2022, 01:55:14 PM
Quote from: lenny on February 08, 2022, 09:01:46 PM
Covid survivors are 63% more likely to suffer a heart attack, according to the "first comprehensive assessment" of cardiovascular complications within a year of recovering from the virus.

An in-depth analysis of federal health data indicates that people who have had COVID-19 are at increased risk of developing cardiovascular complications within the first month to a year after infection. Such complications include disruptive heart rhythms, inflammation of the heart, blood clots, stroke, coronary artery disease, heart attack, heart failure or even death.

Such problems occur even among previously healthy individuals and those who have had mild COVID-19 infections, according to the study, from researchers at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis and the Veterans Affairs St. Louis Health Care System.

The research is published Feb. 7 in Nature Medicine.

It's been known for some time that those who have had an influenza infection have an increased risk of heart attacks and stroke post infection.
    A 2018 study found that the risk of having a heart attack was 6 times higher within a week of a confirmed flu infection.
      I'd hazard a guess there would be similar correllations with cardiac pathology and other viral infections.
      Hopefully the research that is going into long covid might help with some of the other debilitating autoimmune disorders that may share a similar mode of action/pathology.
       Conditions such as M.E./ cfs seem to share many of the symptoms as long Covid. Would be brilliant any treatment (s) they could develop for long covid could help those other conditions as well.

 


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 10, 2022, 02:16:39 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/13/covid-lab-leak-theories-must-investigated-says-world-head-organisation/

All theories must be investigated in the hunt for the origins of Covid, the head of the World Health Organisation (WHO) has said in the first indication that engineered virus and lab leak theories will

it emerged that Chinese scientists had declined to discuss the lab leak scenario unless the final report dismissed any need for further investigation.

Since the outbreak, China has also refused to grant access to lab records which would show whether natural or engineered viruses were being held at Wuhan. It has also failed to allow access to blood samples of the earliest Covid infections.

Detailed investigations of the earliest known and suspected cases in China prior to December 2019 are still urgently needed,
including analyses of stored blood samples from 2019 in Wuhan and surrounding areas and retrospective searches of hospital and mortality data for earlier cases," they say.
"Globally, at least 4.8 million people have died from Covid-19. They and their families are owed answers as to where and how the virus originated. It's in everyone's interest to better prepare for the next Disease X."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on February 10, 2022, 02:59:55 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 10, 2022, 12:37:16 PM
Quote from: Last Man on February 10, 2022, 10:21:00 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 10, 2022, 09:53:47 AM

Quote from: Last Man on February 10, 2022, 09:00:51 AM
Quote from: Hound on February 09, 2022, 10:10:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 09, 2022, 01:29:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 09, 2022, 01:01:40 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 09, 2022, 12:36:18 PM
He's pointed out that that your grand sweeping statement about the health status of Americans, or dismissing the research, is baseless and not backed up back anything apart from your own elevated opinions.

Specifically, I am making Lenny's point that mitigating factors like age, weight, pre existing conditions would've been taken into account before publication of this kind of study. The researchers know well the state of health in the US.

It never ceases to amaze how ignorant so much of the public is about how experimental design and statistical analysis works.

Not saying its foolproof at the individual level (that's partly what peer review is for), but as if a trained scientist is going to fail to account for and control bleeding obvious confounding factors which would sink their study and also hurt their career.
Fair play to the lads for trying to engage with Last Man to try and educate him. But the chap is happy to be ignorant
Ignorant! That's a bit heavy lads. Scientists are no better than the rest of us in terms of ego, bias etc so you have to be a little sceptical in all these things. If you go deeper with the research that is going on with the gut micro biome and personalised nutrition there is so much that the scientists are trying to figure out that there will be a seismic paradigm shift that will big implications for metabolic and mental health.
What significant changes have you made in your own lives to help you with the health crisis of the last 2 years, just wondering?

There's always shifts in science. It's constantly learning new things that make some of the previous information or assumptions redundant. There is nothing new in that. Nor will this shift be any different, and 5 years down the line this "paradigm shift" could be outdated as well. In fact with regards to these changes, I don't think any other industry has the amount of changes of direction the health and well being/ nutrition industry has.
With regarding the health crisis and changes, I've followed what was recommended- social distanced, more time outside, physical activity, took the vaccines when available.
Any thoughts on your blood markers? Things like HbA1c, insulin, triglycerides, cholesterol ratios, CRP? Can't just be blindly led by doctors, some of whom don't look the healthiest to me any way. It's an n=2 experiment in our hous but both of us have never felt better and just wish we had copped on to this sooner. I am thankful to Covid for something at least

There's no issue with looking at additional information. But I'd still side with medical professionals advise over anyone else's unless it's supported by some very strong peer review research. I wouldn't be keen on just disregarding doctors opinions unless there's strong evidence to do so. That doesn't mean individual doctors aren't fallible. Second opinions are invaluable.
If you are comfortable with that, fair enough but I got fed up listening to obese doctors telling me I should go on this and that drug, eat less move more etc. all the while training 2/3 days a week and 40odd mile cycle at the weekend. The system is so flawed you really need to take more control of your own personal health. Each to his own.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on February 10, 2022, 03:06:47 PM
That doesn't make much sense.

Have you never heard the saying "trust the art, not the artist"?

My doctor is a heavy smoker. That doesn't mean that the advice he gives out telling patients they need to cut down/give up cigarettes or they'll be at much higher risk of lung cancer and heart disease is flawed. You can still be a professional even if you're, for whatever reason, not living up to or heeding that advice in your own life. Everyone has personal struggles and foibles they deal with which are separate to what they intellectually and dispassionately know is the right thing.

Where my doctor would be professionally negligent and not worthy of his license would be if he ignored or disavowed medical science in dealing with his patients due to his own personal issues.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on February 10, 2022, 03:14:36 PM
As I said if you are happy with that and it is working for you then fair enough, it wasn't for me. It's personal choice and responsibility at the end of the day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 10, 2022, 03:52:18 PM
My doctor is built like Ryan Tubridy, when he tells you to lose weight you cannot say physician cure thyself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 10, 2022, 05:32:18 PM
lastMan what are you doing or suggesting people do..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on February 10, 2022, 07:19:48 PM
From very early in the pandemic, it was clear that SARS-CoV-2 can damage the heart and blood vessels while people are acutely ill. Patients developed clots, heart inflammation, arrythmias, and heart failure.

Now, the first large study to assess cardiovascular outcomes 1 year after SARS-CoV-2 infection has demonstrated that the virus' impact is often lasting. In an analysis of more than 11 million U.S. veterans' health records, researchers found the risk of 20 different heart and vessel maladies was substantially increased in veterans who had COVID-19 1 year earlier, compared with those who didn't. The risk rose with severity of initial disease and extended to every outcome the team examined, including heart attacks, arrhythmias, strokes, cardiac arrest, and more. Even people who never went to the hospital had more cardiovascular disease than those who were never infected.

"This is clearly evidence of long-term heart and vascular damage. Similar things could be happening in the brain and other organs resulting in symptoms characteristic of Long Covid, including brain fog," says senior author Ziyad Al-Aly, a clinical epidemiologist at Washington University in St. Louis and chief of research at the VA St Louis Health Care system.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on February 10, 2022, 08:02:27 PM
Revelations of poor practices at a contract research company helping to carry out Pfizer's pivotal covid-19 vaccine trial raise questions about data integrity and regulatory oversight. Paul D Thacker reports

BMJ investigative article from 11/2021

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635

The BMJ subsequently called for the release of the raw data from clinical trials from the pharmaceutical companies.

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o102


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on February 10, 2022, 09:07:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 10, 2022, 05:32:18 PM
lastMan what are you doing or suggesting people do..
I am not a medical professional but have a look at the testimony of people on you-tube who have embraced a low carb diet and all that entails. Ketogenic is the extreme end of this but as far as I can make out it is good to do periodically but not long term. There are endless stories from people who have resolved serious medical conditions( arthritis,dyslipidemia, depression to name a few) with diet alone. You basically change from a sugar burner to fat burner which importantly gives our over worked pancreas a break. High insulin and resulting insulin resistance is one of the biggest drivers of chronic disease in older life. Have a look at people like Zoe Harcombe, Tim Noakes and you will get plenty of suggestions after that. Very few of us can tolerate the recommended 45-65% of daily diet as carbs. Sounds bonkers but will all make sense when you get in to it.
My experience of it: dropped 2 stone, more energy and endurance, better sleep, lower stress, acid reflux resolved, regular back spasms, hip and knee pain gone.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 10, 2022, 09:19:18 PM
Quote from: Last Man on February 10, 2022, 09:07:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 10, 2022, 05:32:18 PM
lastMan what are you doing or suggesting people do..
I am not a medical professional but have a look at the testimony of people on you-tube who have embraced a low carb diet and all that entails. Ketogenic is the extreme end of this but as far as I can make out it is good to do periodically but not long term. There are endless stories from people who have resolved serious medical conditions( arthritis,dyslipidemia, depression to name a few) with diet alone. You basically change from a sugar burner to fat burner which importantly gives our over worked pancreas a break. High insulin and resulting insulin resistance is one of the biggest drivers of chronic disease in older life. Have a look at people like Zoe Harcombe, Tim Noakes and you will get plenty of suggestions after that. Very few of us can tolerate the recommended 45-65% of daily diet as carbs. Sounds bonkers but will all make sense when you get in to it.
My experience of it: dropped 2 stone, more energy and endurance, better sleep, lower stress, acid reflux resolved, regular back spasms, hip and knee pain gone.

what's the link to covid and "Things like HbA1c, insulin, triglycerides, cholesterol ratios, CRP?"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2022, 11:26:45 PM
I did the keto for over a month, rigidly stuck to it, including no alcohol, as Last man said a lot of the stuff worked really well, weight loss, shredded to very low body fat, we take way too much sugar and then your hidden sugars in food is way and about what's needed.

It can only be a good thing reducing the sugars, as for cholesterol you either have high/bad cholesterol or you don't. Will give it another go soon, then maybe do it in moderation
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on February 11, 2022, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 10, 2022, 09:19:18 PM
Quote from: Last Man on February 10, 2022, 09:07:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 10, 2022, 05:32:18 PM
lastMan what are you doing or suggesting people do..
I am not a medical professional but have a look at the testimony of people on you-tube who have embraced a low carb diet and all that entails. Ketogenic is the extreme end of this but as far as I can make out it is good to do periodically but not long term. There are endless stories from people who have resolved serious medical conditions( arthritis,dyslipidemia, depression to name a few) with diet alone. You basically change from a sugar burner to fat burner which importantly gives our over worked pancreas a break. High insulin and resulting insulin resistance is one of the biggest drivers of chronic disease in older life. Have a look at people like Zoe Harcombe, Tim Noakes and you will get plenty of suggestions after that. Very few of us can tolerate the recommended 45-65% of daily diet as carbs. Sounds bonkers but will all make sense when you get in to it.
My experience of it: dropped 2 stone, more energy and endurance, better sleep, lower stress, acid reflux resolved, regular back spasms, hip and knee pain gone.

what's the link to covid and "Things like HbA1c, insulin, triglycerides, cholesterol ratios, CRP?"
Comorbidities, that you may not even be aware of can cause problems with covid. Excess fat storage is a symptom of insulin resistance and you can be thin outside but fat inside(TOFI), fat is stored around your organs and that is a problem for your immune response to Covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on February 11, 2022, 10:26:04 AM
Milltown, did u cut out all sugars, or additional reduction in fats too? Never really read up to much on diets but need cut about 20lbs, dropped 2 stone previous on a fruit diet, kept stone and a half of it of permanently,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on February 11, 2022, 10:36:58 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 11, 2022, 10:26:04 AM
Milltown, did u cut out all sugars, or additional reduction in fats too? Never really read up to much on diets but need cut about 20lbs, dropped 2 stone previous on a fruit diet, kept stone and a half of it of permanently,
Low carb not low fat is the way to go, I'm not a fan of full keto as a long term but cutting out bread, pasta, cereals cutting down spuds and rice is your best starting point. Carbs are the no.1 source of body fat. Meat, leafy veg, butter, cream, berry fruit in moderation all good
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on February 11, 2022, 10:48:25 AM
Interesting stuff Last Man. Sounds like your taking a "total" approach to your health, I know a few lads/ lassies like you, happy healthy people. Heading that direction myself, having noticed a significant improvement in my mood & general health. Not as tired, don't need antacids as much as I used too. There is some pain in the first couple of weeks, as the body gets used of doing without certain food groups. Fair play
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 11, 2022, 11:23:06 AM
Quote from: Last Man on February 11, 2022, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 10, 2022, 09:19:18 PM
Quote from: Last Man on February 10, 2022, 09:07:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 10, 2022, 05:32:18 PM
lastMan what are you doing or suggesting people do..
I am not a medical professional but have a look at the testimony of people on you-tube who have embraced a low carb diet and all that entails. Ketogenic is the extreme end of this but as far as I can make out it is good to do periodically but not long term. There are endless stories from people who have resolved serious medical conditions( arthritis,dyslipidemia, depression to name a few) with diet alone. You basically change from a sugar burner to fat burner which importantly gives our over worked pancreas a break. High insulin and resulting insulin resistance is one of the biggest drivers of chronic disease in older life. Have a look at people like Zoe Harcombe, Tim Noakes and you will get plenty of suggestions after that. Very few of us can tolerate the recommended 45-65% of daily diet as carbs. Sounds bonkers but will all make sense when you get in to it.
My experience of it: dropped 2 stone, more energy and endurance, better sleep, lower stress, acid reflux resolved, regular back spasms, hip and knee pain gone.

what's the link to covid and "Things like HbA1c, insulin, triglycerides, cholesterol ratios, CRP?"
Comorbidities, that you may not even be aware of can cause problems with covid. Excess fat storage is a symptom of insulin resistance and you can be thin outside but fat inside(TOFI), fat is stored around your organs and that is a problem for your immune response to Covid.

But did these caused health issues for people before covid too, I assume they did. So it's not really a covid issue more a general health issue. People should be healthier and as a result require less medical interventions. Unless you are suggesting ignoring covid specific treatments/vaccines, which is different.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on February 11, 2022, 02:17:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 11, 2022, 11:23:06 AM
Quote from: Last Man on February 11, 2022, 09:26:14 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 10, 2022, 09:19:18 PM
Quote from: Last Man on February 10, 2022, 09:07:45 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 10, 2022, 05:32:18 PM
lastMan what are you doing or suggesting people do..
I am not a medical professional but have a look at the testimony of people on you-tube who have embraced a low carb diet and all that entails. Ketogenic is the extreme end of this but as far as I can make out it is good to do periodically but not long term. There are endless stories from people who have resolved serious medical conditions( arthritis,dyslipidemia, depression to name a few) with diet alone. You basically change from a sugar burner to fat burner which importantly gives our over worked pancreas a break. High insulin and resulting insulin resistance is one of the biggest drivers of chronic disease in older life. Have a look at people like Zoe Harcombe, Tim Noakes and you will get plenty of suggestions after that. Very few of us can tolerate the recommended 45-65% of daily diet as carbs. Sounds bonkers but will all make sense when you get in to it.
My experience of it: dropped 2 stone, more energy and endurance, better sleep, lower stress, acid reflux resolved, regular back spasms, hip and knee pain gone.

what's the link to covid and "Things like HbA1c, insulin, triglycerides, cholesterol ratios, CRP?"
Comorbidities, that you may not even be aware of can cause problems with covid. Excess fat storage is a symptom of insulin resistance and you can be thin outside but fat inside(TOFI), fat is stored around your organs and that is a problem for your immune response to Covid.

But did these caused health issues for people before covid too, I assume they did. So it's not really a covid issue more a general health issue. People should be healthier and as a result require less medical interventions. Unless you are suggesting ignoring covid specific treatments/vaccines, which is different.
You are having a laugh I take it!! ::) I'll cut to the chase, too many people think they are healthy and they are not, waiting for something to go wrong, then medicate. I take a different approach in that we should build a better health foundation to mitigate against problems in the future and ultimately live a more fulfilling life into our old age. By all means place all your faith elsewhere, makes no difference to me, but theres an awful lot of people that hasn't worked out to well for. Don't even know why I'm trying to justify myself but I am triple vaxxed fyi.
If its not for you, just ignore me, others may get something out of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 11, 2022, 03:26:19 PM
i did not know if you were vaxxed or not, hence why i asked a question about what you were suggesting and what you were doing but I wasn't clear if you were promoting it as an alternative to covid treatments/vaccines or as being better for your general health and therefore a method of preventioj rather than cure...  And all I have done is asked you to clarify what you were suggesting, not cast any judgement on your position.

you seem to suggest I place my faith elsewhere, I don't think ive stated a position one way or the other...

I was interested in why it related to covid as I think its a general health issue that existed before covid and getting healthy shouldn't  be a mitigant against covid but as you say a protection against problems in the future (including covid).
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 11, 2022, 03:34:52 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 11, 2022, 10:26:04 AM
Milltown, did u cut out all sugars, or additional reduction in fats too? Never really read up to much on diets but need cut about 20lbs, dropped 2 stone previous on a fruit diet, kept stone and a half of it of permanently,

No sugar at all, no drink, certain fruits only, which may have natural sugars but, if you are prepared and stick to it then it works, I was shocked tbf.

Friends had mentioned that I'd lost too much weight!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 11, 2022, 03:36:54 PM
Sugar seems to be the real danger all right. Fat got a bad rep for a long time but sugar definitely the one that does the most damage. Unreal the levels of hidden sugar in some foods.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on February 11, 2022, 03:43:36 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 11, 2022, 03:26:19 PM
i did not know if you were vaxxed or not, hence why i asked a question about what you were suggesting and what you were doing but I wasn't clear if you were promoting it as an alternative to covid treatments/vaccines or as being better for your general health and therefore a method of preventioj rather than cure...  And all I have done is asked you to clarify what you were suggesting, not cast any judgement on your position.

you seem to suggest I place my faith elsewhere, I don't think ive stated a position one way or the other...

I was interested in why it related to covid as I think its a general health issue that existed before covid and getting healthy shouldn't  be a mitigant against covid but as you say a protection against problems in the future (including covid).
It all predates Covid for sure but what was once a slow burner and therefore not taken all that seriously can escalate quickly to a bad situation if Covid or whatever is coming next is added to the mix.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on February 13, 2022, 12:13:15 AM
My doctors surgery is telling my mother that the doctor can't perform a pain relieving injection on her knee because of Covid. She received a similar injection about 9 months ago and she got great relief. Now when she wants it again she is getting the covid excuse. I am tempted to confront the doctor directly about this as I am aware that during the week he does private work at another surgery.
Have I got a case or is he correct in refusing her the injection 'due to covid '?
She was not told to try later or anything like that,  just simply he was not prepared to treat her. She is 90 years of age.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 13, 2022, 12:16:47 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on February 13, 2022, 12:13:15 AM
My doctors surgery is telling my mother that the doctor can't perform a pain relieving injection on her knee because of Covid. She received a similar injection about 9 months ago and she got great relief. Now when she wants it again she is getting the covid excuse. I am tempted to confront the doctor directly about this as I am aware that during the week he does private work at another surgery.
Have I got a case or is he correct in refusing her the injection 'due to covid '?
She was not told to try later or anything like that,  just simply he was not prepared to treat her. She is 90 years of age.

Go ask the question, but if it was my mum I'd pay for the injection but still ask the question
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 13, 2022, 12:22:57 AM
"Covid" surely can't be used as excuse by doctors when practically every aspect of society has been opened up. Where is the risk from giving an injection- any greater risk than the vaccine everyone encouraged to get? GPs should be awarded a white feather instead of a medal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on February 13, 2022, 12:32:46 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on February 13, 2022, 12:13:15 AM
My doctors surgery is telling my mother that the doctor can't perform a pain relieving injection on her knee because of Covid. She received a similar injection about 9 months ago and she got great relief. Now when she wants it again she is getting the covid excuse. I am tempted to confront the doctor directly about this as I am aware that during the week he does private work at another surgery.
Have I got a case or is he correct in refusing her the injection 'due to covid '?
She was not told to try later or anything like that,  just simply he was not prepared to treat her. She is 90 years of age.

Sounds like the doctor needs challenged on this one.  How can covid prevent an injection when they've been administering millions of injections for covid vaccines over the past 18 months. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on February 13, 2022, 12:50:45 AM
Thanks for the responses.
Is this sort of thing happening in your areas  or are your doctors generally seeing patients as before the pandemic? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 13, 2022, 12:53:40 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on February 13, 2022, 12:50:45 AM
Thanks for the responses.
Is this sort of thing happening in your areas  or are your doctors generally seeing patients as before the pandemic?
Where are you based? Our surgery has been great - do phone consultations initially but inevitably they say come on over for a proper checkup. Certainly doesn't seem to be the case everywhere. Local dentist needs to sort themselves out - quite prepared to do paid private work but not do a checkup on the kids!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jim Bob on February 13, 2022, 12:55:40 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 13, 2022, 12:53:40 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on February 13, 2022, 12:50:45 AM
Thanks for the responses.
Is this sort of thing happening in your areas  or are your doctors generally seeing patients as before the pandemic?
Where are you based? Our surgery has been great - do phone consultations initially but inevitably they say come on over for a proper checkup. Certainly doesn't seem to be the case everywhere. Local dentist needs to sort themselves out - quite prepared to do paid private work but not do a checkup on the kids!

East Tyrone
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on February 13, 2022, 07:45:21 AM
My wife's boss's dad had problems with treatment for her elderly dad. I am not sure what was wrong with him but he was completely bed ridden and her elderly mother had to manage him on her own. He needed turned during the day to avoid bed sores and could not get out of bed. The gp basically told them they had to get on with it. They managed to get a second doctor to talk to and he said their dad needed to go to hospital immediately. Ambulance came and away he went. That kind of thing unfortunately sometimes needs done :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on February 13, 2022, 08:22:59 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on February 13, 2022, 12:13:15 AM
My doctors surgery is telling my mother that the doctor can't perform a pain relieving injection on her knee because of Covid. She received a similar injection about 9 months ago and she got great relief. Now when she wants it again she is getting the covid excuse. I am tempted to confront the doctor directly about this as I am aware that during the week he does private work at another surgery.
Have I got a case or is he correct in refusing her the injection 'due to covid '?
She was not told to try later or anything like that,  just simply he was not prepared to treat her. She is 90 years of age.

I'll PM you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on February 13, 2022, 11:54:43 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 13, 2022, 12:53:40 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on February 13, 2022, 12:50:45 AM
Thanks for the responses.
Is this sort of thing happening in your areas  or are your doctors generally seeing patients as before the pandemic?
Where are you based? Our surgery has been great - do phone consultations initially but inevitably they say come on over for a proper checkup. Certainly doesn't seem to be the case everywhere. Local dentist needs to sort themselves out - quite prepared to do paid private work but not do a checkup on the kids!

Local GP surgery here has been closed since April 2020. No sign of it reopening.
      Doctors have been relocated to an existing clinic in a nearby larger town. Very difficult to get to see a GP at all. Sad state of affairs. Massive push towards private health care.
      As for dentists. Be prepared for a shift from NHS to purely private care. Its already started in many practices. Health plans and private insurance or private fees. Your free 6 monthly nhs checkups for the kids might turn into a very expensive visit!
     
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Main Street on February 13, 2022, 12:13:50 PM
Probably more suited to the WTF thread but what the hell.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-60362529 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-60362529)

'Authorities in New Zealand have been playing Barry Manilow's greatest hits in an attempt to dislodge protesters camped outside the parliament building.
Songs by the US singer are being played on a 15-minute loop, along with the Spanish dance tune, Macarena.'
....
'Apparently someone was listening, as his song You're Beautiful was added to the authorities' playlist on Sunday,
UK singer James Blunt tweeted about the tactics, tagging New Zealand police and joking that he might be the man for the job.'
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 13, 2022, 02:47:37 PM
Quote from: grounded on February 13, 2022, 11:54:43 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 13, 2022, 12:53:40 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on February 13, 2022, 12:50:45 AM
Thanks for the responses.
Is this sort of thing happening in your areas  or are your doctors generally seeing patients as before the pandemic?
Where are you based? Our surgery has been great - do phone consultations initially but inevitably they say come on over for a proper checkup. Certainly doesn't seem to be the case everywhere. Local dentist needs to sort themselves out - quite prepared to do paid private work but not do a checkup on the kids!

Local GP surgery here has been closed since April 2020. No sign of it reopening.
      Doctors have been relocated to an existing clinic in a nearby larger town. Very difficult to get to see a GP at all. Sad state of affairs. Massive push towards private health care.
      As for dentists. Be prepared for a shift from NHS to purely private care. Its already started in many practices. Health plans and private insurance or private fees. Your free 6 monthly nhs checkups for the kids might turn into a very expensive visit!
     

sure what is more important than health?

cars, houses, holidays, clothes??

everyone can afford it

gladly pay for private healthcare to get seen immediately,

waiting weeks, months, or years for an appointment is not only crazy, it's completely stupid  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on February 13, 2022, 03:14:11 PM
Quote from: grounded on February 13, 2022, 11:54:43 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 13, 2022, 12:53:40 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on February 13, 2022, 12:50:45 AM
Thanks for the responses.
Is this sort of thing happening in your areas  or are your doctors generally seeing patients as before the pandemic?
Where are you based? Our surgery has been great - do phone consultations initially but inevitably they say come on over for a proper checkup. Certainly doesn't seem to be the case everywhere. Local dentist needs to sort themselves out - quite prepared to do paid private work but not do a checkup on the kids!

Local GP surgery here has been closed since April 2020. No sign of it reopening.
      Doctors have been relocated to an existing clinic in a nearby larger town. Very difficult to get to see a GP at all. Sad state of affairs. Massive push towards private health care.
      As for dentists. Be prepared for a shift from NHS to purely private care. Its already started in many practices. Health plans and private insurance or private fees. Your free 6 monthly nhs checkups for the kids might turn into a very expensive visit!
     

Surely not, are we not constantly being told by the unionists that the NHS is The Big reason against Unity. Yet in reality the NHS is falling apart
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on February 13, 2022, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 13, 2022, 02:47:37 PM
Quote from: grounded on February 13, 2022, 11:54:43 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 13, 2022, 12:53:40 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on February 13, 2022, 12:50:45 AM
Thanks for the responses.
Is this sort of thing happening in your areas  or are your doctors generally seeing patients as before the pandemic?
Where are you based? Our surgery has been great - do phone consultations initially but inevitably they say come on over for a proper checkup. Certainly doesn't seem to be the case everywhere. Local dentist needs to sort themselves out - quite prepared to do paid private work but not do a checkup on the kids!

Local GP surgery here has been closed since April 2020. No sign of it reopening.
      Doctors have been relocated to an existing clinic in a nearby larger town. Very difficult to get to see a GP at all. Sad state of affairs. Massive push towards private health care.
      As for dentists. Be prepared for a shift from NHS to purely private care. Its already started in many practices. Health plans and private insurance or private fees. Your free 6 monthly nhs checkups for the kids might turn into a very expensive visit!
     

sure what is more important than health?

cars, houses, holidays, clothes??

everyone can afford it

gladly pay for private healthcare to get seen immediately,

waiting weeks, months, or years for an appointment is not only crazy, it's completely stupid  ::)

' everyone can afford it '
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 13, 2022, 04:55:02 PM
Quote from: grounded on February 13, 2022, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 13, 2022, 02:47:37 PM
Quote from: grounded on February 13, 2022, 11:54:43 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 13, 2022, 12:53:40 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on February 13, 2022, 12:50:45 AM
Thanks for the responses.
Is this sort of thing happening in your areas  or are your doctors generally seeing patients as before the pandemic?
Where are you based? Our surgery has been great - do phone consultations initially but inevitably they say come on over for a proper checkup. Certainly doesn't seem to be the case everywhere. Local dentist needs to sort themselves out - quite prepared to do paid private work but not do a checkup on the kids!

Local GP surgery here has been closed since April 2020. No sign of it reopening.
      Doctors have been relocated to an existing clinic in a nearby larger town. Very difficult to get to see a GP at all. Sad state of affairs. Massive push towards private health care.
      As for dentists. Be prepared for a shift from NHS to purely private care. Its already started in many practices. Health plans and private insurance or private fees. Your free 6 monthly nhs checkups for the kids might turn into a very expensive visit!
     

sure what is more important than health?

cars, houses, holidays, clothes??

everyone can afford it

gladly pay for private healthcare to get seen immediately,

waiting weeks, months, or years for an appointment is not only crazy, it's completely stupid  ::)

' everyone can afford it '

yes and clearly so if people are being honest with themselves

a lad on the car thread looking to buy a car for 25k ffs  ;D ;D ;D

would he pay that money for a new hip, knee surgery or cancer treatment??

if not then people have their priorities all wrong imho  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on February 13, 2022, 06:11:53 PM
Quote from: Jim Bob on February 13, 2022, 12:13:15 AM
My doctors surgery is telling my mother that the doctor can't perform a pain relieving injection on her knee because of Covid. She received a similar injection about 9 months ago and she got great relief. Now when she wants it again she is getting the covid excuse. I am tempted to confront the doctor directly about this as I am aware that during the week he does private work at another surgery.
Have I got a case or is he correct in refusing her the injection 'due to covid '?
She was not told to try later or anything like that,  just simply he was not prepared to treat her. She is 90 years of age.
He wants some kick up the hole. That is a disgrace.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on February 13, 2022, 06:22:13 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 13, 2022, 04:55:02 PM
Quote from: grounded on February 13, 2022, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on February 13, 2022, 02:47:37 PM
Quote from: grounded on February 13, 2022, 11:54:43 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 13, 2022, 12:53:40 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on February 13, 2022, 12:50:45 AM
Thanks for the responses.
Is this sort of thing happening in your areas  or are your doctors generally seeing patients as before the pandemic?
Where are you based? Our surgery has been great - do phone consultations initially but inevitably they say come on over for a proper checkup. Certainly doesn't seem to be the case everywhere. Local dentist needs to sort themselves out - quite prepared to do paid private work but not do a checkup on the kids!

Local GP surgery here has been closed since April 2020. No sign of it reopening.
      Doctors have been relocated to an existing clinic in a nearby larger town. Very difficult to get to see a GP at all. Sad state of affairs. Massive push towards private health care.
      As for dentists. Be prepared for a shift from NHS to purely private care. Its already started in many practices. Health plans and private insurance or private fees. Your free 6 monthly nhs checkups for the kids might turn into a very expensive visit!
     

sure what is more important than health?

cars, houses, holidays, clothes??

everyone can afford it

gladly pay for private healthcare to get seen immediately,

waiting weeks, months, or years for an appointment is not only crazy, it's completely stupid  ::)

' everyone can afford it '

yes and clearly so if people are being honest with themselves

a lad on the car thread looking to buy a car for 25k ffs  ;D ;D ;D

would he pay that money for a new hip, knee surgery or cancer treatment??

if not then people have their priorities all wrong imho  ;)

I'm not sure where you live, but where i live/work, there is an open air food bank right across the street from me. They are flat out.
      I'd hazard a guess some of those folk are struggling to put food on the table never mind pay for private health care.
     
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on February 13, 2022, 10:46:46 PM
Let them eat cake, eh Mikhail
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on February 14, 2022, 09:27:19 AM
The current model is beyond repair though and it feels like our taxes are being emptied into a bottomless pit. I would like to see GPs be less guideline driven and allowed more latitude to take their practices in a functional medicine direction. When every day is groundhog day what incentive is there for the doctors?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on February 14, 2022, 11:13:27 AM
Quote from: Last Man on February 14, 2022, 09:27:19 AM
The current model is beyond repair though and it feels like our taxes are being emptied into a bottomless pit. I would like to see GPs be less guideline driven and allowed more latitude to take their practices in a functional medicine direction. When every day is groundhog day what incentive is there for the doctors?

In what way would you like more latitude? The medical profession will always be a very tightly regulated and structured profession. For obvious reasons. For their own protection it needs to be. I don't think you can have Doctors going off piste with treatments as that could get really messy. Unless it's general health treatments/ information in addition to the prescribed standard response. But I know some doctors who would do this anyway.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Man Marker on February 14, 2022, 12:05:35 PM
Isn't great the vaccine mandates done away with, utter stupidity. Only a matter of time before they are gone with air travel. See Norway has lifted all its restrictions including to do with international travel.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 14, 2022, 12:09:28 PM
Quote from: Last Man on February 14, 2022, 09:27:19 AM
The current model is beyond repair though and it feels like our taxes are being emptied into a bottomless pit. I would like to see GPs be less guideline driven and allowed more latitude to take their practices in a functional medicine direction. When every day is groundhog day what incentive is there for the doctors?
If you mean quackery and "holistic" medicine then no thanks. If you mean sorting out the root cause of the complaint rather than the complaint itself, then yes I'd agree with you. You'd imagine a large percentage of people seeing a GP have ailments related to lifestyle choices. Does a GP ever tell anyone to lose weight?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on February 14, 2022, 12:25:10 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 14, 2022, 12:09:28 PM
Quote from: Last Man on February 14, 2022, 09:27:19 AM
The current model is beyond repair though and it feels like our taxes are being emptied into a bottomless pit. I would like to see GPs be less guideline driven and allowed more latitude to take their practices in a functional medicine direction. When every day is groundhog day what incentive is there for the doctors?
If you mean quackery and "holistic" medicine then no thanks. If you mean sorting out the root cause of the complaint rather than the complaint itself, then yes I'd agree with you. You'd imagine a large percentage of people seeing a GP have ailments related to lifestyle choices. Does a GP ever tell anyone to lose weight?

From Google.
Functional medicine doctors use specialized training and techniques to find the root causes of complex illnesses. They may investigate multiple factors causing a condition, or they may look into multiple conditions causing one symptom.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on February 16, 2022, 06:38:07 PM
How the CDC Abandoned Science | My Article in Tablet Magazine
Vinay Prasad, MD MPH; Physician & Associate Professor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C6524soTnA&t=632s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C6524soTnA&t=632s)

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/how-the-cdc-abandoned-science (https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/how-the-cdc-abandoned-science)

QuoteUltimately, science is not a political sport. It is a method to ascertain truth in a chaotic, uncertain universe. Science itself is transcendent, and will outlast our current challenges no matter what we choose to believe. But the more it becomes subordinate to politics—the more it becomes a slogan rather than a method of discovery and understanding—the more impoverished we all become. The next decade will be critical as we face an increasingly existential question: Is science autonomous and sacred, or a branch of politics? I hope we choose wisely, but I fear the die is already cast.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on February 16, 2022, 07:11:14 PM
 How are Irelands numbers since mask mandates and vax pass were removed ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 17, 2022, 01:12:19 AM
Numbers in the ROI go up and down a bit but are basically stuck at a very high level. Given that not everyone us counted there are 100,000+ each week.
There is no reason whatsoever for further reduction in the few restrictions that are left until numbers go down.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on February 17, 2022, 08:02:22 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on February 16, 2022, 06:38:07 PM
How the CDC Abandoned Science | My Article in Tablet Magazine
Vinay Prasad, MD MPH; Physician & Associate Professor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C6524soTnA&t=632s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C6524soTnA&t=632s)

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/how-the-cdc-abandoned-science (https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/how-the-cdc-abandoned-science)

QuoteUltimately, science is not a political sport. It is a method to ascertain truth in a chaotic, uncertain universe. Science itself is transcendent, and will outlast our current challenges no matter what we choose to believe. But the more it becomes subordinate to politics—the more it becomes a slogan rather than a method of discovery and understanding—the more impoverished we all become. The next decade will be critical as we face an increasingly existential question: Is science autonomous and sacred, or a branch of politics? I hope we choose wisely, but I fear the die is already cast.

Our typically Irish blind faith, "it takes a priest to say mass" attitude is not healthy and ultimately makes us vulnerable to all sorts of manipulation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 17, 2022, 12:59:18 PM
I half read the article and found he was doing similar to what he accused the CDC of doing and was cherry picking different aspect of the Swedish,  Canadian and UK approach to make counter points.

I also find it is typically people right of center on the political spectrum that try to mix politics with medical science...

I haven't researched enough into the mask wearing but what I do know is that it is very hard to conduct an analysis outside of the lab when you have to consider a number of factors including people behaviours and it appears that the CDC have similar opinions on mask wearing to most of the world...

I would want a heart surgeon to do heart surgery, I wouldn't want a podiatrist to do it and that has nothing to do with being irish or blind faith. We have come a long way from being preached to from pulpit regardless of what form the pulpit takes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on February 17, 2022, 01:06:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 17, 2022, 12:59:18 PM
I half read the article and found he was doing similar to what he accused the CDC of doing and was cherry picking different aspect of the Swedish,  Canadian and UK approach to make counter points.

I also find it is typically people right of center on the political spectrum that try to mix politics with medical science...

I haven't researched enough into the mask wearing but what I do know is that it is very hard to conduct an analysis outside of the lab when you have to consider a number of factors including people behaviours and it appears that the CDC have similar opinions on mask wearing to most of the world...

I would want a heart surgeon to do heart surgery, I wouldn't want a podiatrist to do it and that has nothing to do with being irish or blind faith. We have come a long way from being preached to from pulpit regardless of what form the pulpit takes.
That's your opinion and you are entitled to it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 17, 2022, 01:14:30 PM
Quote from: Last Man on February 17, 2022, 01:06:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 17, 2022, 12:59:18 PM
I half read the article and found he was doing similar to what he accused the CDC of doing and was cherry picking different aspect of the Swedish,  Canadian and UK approach to make counter points.

I also find it is typically people right of center on the political spectrum that try to mix politics with medical science...

I haven't researched enough into the mask wearing but what I do know is that it is very hard to conduct an analysis outside of the lab when you have to consider a number of factors including people behaviours and it appears that the CDC have similar opinions on mask wearing to most of the world...

I would want a heart surgeon to do heart surgery, I wouldn't want a podiatrist to do it and that has nothing to do with being irish or blind faith. We have come a long way from being preached to from pulpit regardless of what form the pulpit takes.
That's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

should I take from that you don't agree with my opinion?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on February 17, 2022, 01:19:39 PM
Quote from: Last Man on February 17, 2022, 08:02:22 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on February 16, 2022, 06:38:07 PM
How the CDC Abandoned Science | My Article in Tablet Magazine
Vinay Prasad, MD MPH; Physician & Associate Professor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C6524soTnA&t=632s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C6524soTnA&t=632s)

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/how-the-cdc-abandoned-science (https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/how-the-cdc-abandoned-science)

QuoteUltimately, science is not a political sport. It is a method to ascertain truth in a chaotic, uncertain universe. Science itself is transcendent, and will outlast our current challenges no matter what we choose to believe. But the more it becomes subordinate to politics—the more it becomes a slogan rather than a method of discovery and understanding—the more impoverished we all become. The next decade will be critical as we face an increasingly existential question: Is science autonomous and sacred, or a branch of politics? I hope we choose wisely, but I fear the die is already cast.

Our typically Irish blind faith, "it takes a priest to say mass" attitude is not healthy and ultimately makes us vulnerable to all sorts of manipulation.

You surely are a windup merchant. Basing your opinions on some dogshit you've read on the internet and then preaching about being vulnerable to manipulation. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on February 17, 2022, 01:28:08 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 17, 2022, 01:19:39 PM
Quote from: Last Man on February 17, 2022, 08:02:22 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on February 16, 2022, 06:38:07 PM
How the CDC Abandoned Science | My Article in Tablet Magazine
Vinay Prasad, MD MPH; Physician & Associate Professor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C6524soTnA&t=632s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C6524soTnA&t=632s)

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/how-the-cdc-abandoned-science (https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/how-the-cdc-abandoned-science)

QuoteUltimately, science is not a political sport. It is a method to ascertain truth in a chaotic, uncertain universe. Science itself is transcendent, and will outlast our current challenges no matter what we choose to believe. But the more it becomes subordinate to politics—the more it becomes a slogan rather than a method of discovery and understanding—the more impoverished we all become. The next decade will be critical as we face an increasingly existential question: Is science autonomous and sacred, or a branch of politics? I hope we choose wisely, but I fear the die is already cast.

Our typically Irish blind faith, "it takes a priest to say mass" attitude is not healthy and ultimately makes us vulnerable to all sorts of manipulation.

You surely are a windup merchant. Basing your opinions on some dogshit you've read on the internet and then preaching about being vulnerable to manipulation.

Is there a vaccine for paranoia? The stuff folk believe these days is absolutely bonkers
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on February 17, 2022, 01:28:14 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on February 17, 2022, 12:59:18 PM
I half read the article and found he was doing similar to what he accused the CDC of doing and was cherry picking different aspect of the Swedish,  Canadian and UK approach to make counter points.

I also find it is typically people right of center on the political spectrum that try to mix politics with medical science...

I haven't researched enough into the mask wearing but what I do know is that it is very hard to conduct an analysis outside of the lab when you have to consider a number of factors including people behaviours and it appears that the CDC have similar opinions on mask wearing to most of the world...

I would want a heart surgeon to do heart surgery, I wouldn't want a podiatrist to do it and that has nothing to do with being irish or blind faith. We have come a long way from being preached to from pulpit regardless of what form the pulpit takes.

I think its valid that policy and science should be separated as much as possible, but we're not talking about research into the geology of an asteroid or something similarly remote from everyday life. Science and policy intersect in many fields, few more than public health. And public health policy should err on the side of caution in the direction of reducing disease.

I found her analysis of the graph on the mask mandates in Kansas a bit strange. Maybe I misunderstood, but that graph clearly showed reduced cases among counties where masks were mandated. Yes, the effect was relatively modest and the overall trend was the same, but the case numbers were consistently lower where mandates were implemented. No one ever said masking alone was the answer, but it is part of the answer.

And if the use of loose-fitting masks as source control is controversial, then why the hell have medical professionals, all the way up to surgeons in the OR, been masking up all these years?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on February 17, 2022, 01:42:56 PM
Quote from: Last Man on February 17, 2022, 08:02:22 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on February 16, 2022, 06:38:07 PM
How the CDC Abandoned Science | My Article in Tablet Magazine
Vinay Prasad, MD MPH; Physician & Associate Professor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C6524soTnA&t=632s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C6524soTnA&t=632s)

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/how-the-cdc-abandoned-science (https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/how-the-cdc-abandoned-science)

QuoteUltimately, science is not a political sport. It is a method to ascertain truth in a chaotic, uncertain universe. Science itself is transcendent, and will outlast our current challenges no matter what we choose to believe. But the more it becomes subordinate to politics—the more it becomes a slogan rather than a method of discovery and understanding—the more impoverished we all become. The next decade will be critical as we face an increasingly existential question: Is science autonomous and sacred, or a branch of politics? I hope we choose wisely, but I fear the die is already cast.

Our typically Irish blind faith, "it takes a priest to say mass" attitude is not healthy and ultimately makes us vulnerable to all sorts of manipulation.

Bless me father, for i have sinned, it has been 3 months since my last vaccination.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on February 17, 2022, 02:10:02 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on February 17, 2022, 01:28:08 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on February 17, 2022, 01:19:39 PM
Quote from: Last Man on February 17, 2022, 08:02:22 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on February 16, 2022, 06:38:07 PM
How the CDC Abandoned Science | My Article in Tablet Magazine
Vinay Prasad, MD MPH; Physician & Associate Professor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C6524soTnA&t=632s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C6524soTnA&t=632s)

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/how-the-cdc-abandoned-science (https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/how-the-cdc-abandoned-science)

QuoteUltimately, science is not a political sport. It is a method to ascertain truth in a chaotic, uncertain universe. Science itself is transcendent, and will outlast our current challenges no matter what we choose to believe. But the more it becomes subordinate to politics—the more it becomes a slogan rather than a method of discovery and understanding—the more impoverished we all become. The next decade will be critical as we face an increasingly existential question: Is science autonomous and sacred, or a branch of politics? I hope we choose wisely, but I fear the die is already cast.

Our typically Irish blind faith, "it takes a priest to say mass" attitude is not healthy and ultimately makes us vulnerable to all sorts of manipulation.

You surely are a windup merchant. Basing your opinions on some dogshit you've read on the internet and then preaching about being vulnerable to manipulation.

Is there a vaccine for paranoia? The stuff folk believe these days is absolutely bonkers
Fair enough, but what's your take on the NHS nutritional guidelines of the last 40 years and their influence on the general population health, and while we are at it what are your thoughts on the medication budget for the NHS, the annual spend that is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 17, 2022, 05:36:33 PM
Far from having a PhD, you'd need to be thick as a plank not to realise that a mask will stop your snot going all over the place.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on February 17, 2022, 08:36:16 PM
Sure it floats in the air like the black stuff in the adverts. If it was snotborne the masks probably would work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 17, 2022, 11:12:39 PM
Was talking to an ex gp the other day,his daughter practicing gp son a medical consultant, they said that the mask and sanitation has reduced flu (as it would on basic terms) and feels it would be good to help the nhs going forward to bring it in during the 'flu' season
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on February 18, 2022, 09:32:25 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/tony-holohan-recommends-nphet-be-stood-down-1.4805643
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on February 18, 2022, 09:39:32 AM
One thing I really hope the Covid era will leave a lasting legacy on is the end of people coming into work sick as a dog and polluting their colleagues. I'd also probably continue to wear masks during winter months off my own bat tbh, Most Winter's I would have spent a lot of time holding my breath in shop queues to avoid snottery/ bug laden shoppers, so mask wearing would be a bonus as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on February 18, 2022, 09:58:41 AM
Shops are one thing, I always tended to avoid busy shopping periods anyway, except t perhaps at Christmas. But public transport is the thing, they want everyone to use it and they pack people in like sardines and while aeroplanes have hi tech ventilation trains and buses do not.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on February 18, 2022, 10:37:30 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 18, 2022, 09:58:41 AM
Shops are on thing, I always tended to avoid busy shopping periods anyway, except t perhaps at Christmas. But public transport is the thing, they want everyone to use it and they pack people in like sardines and while aeroplanes have hi tech ventilation trains and buses do not.

;D Sweet fu"k, the only time shops are busy
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on February 22, 2022, 09:15:22 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMN7BnnXoAcxe2S?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on February 22, 2022, 09:58:27 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 18, 2022, 09:39:32 AM
One thing I really hope the Covid era will leave a lasting legacy on is the end of people coming into work sick as a dog and polluting their colleagues. I'd also probably continue to wear masks during winter months off my own bat tbh, Most Winter's I would have spent a lot of time holding my breath in shop queues to avoid snottery/ bug laden shoppers, so mask wearing would be a bonus as far as I'm concerned.

Depends if they are in a handy public sector job with full contractual sick pay or in a job where they don't get paid if they are sick
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on March 07, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Follow the evidence, wherever it leads

Treatment with Ivermectin Is Associated with Decreased Mortality in COVID-19 Patients: Analysis of a National Federated Database

Ivermectin, more evidence
https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A (https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on March 07, 2022, 09:27:39 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on March 07, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Follow the evidence, wherever it leads

Treatment with Ivermectin Is Associated with Decreased Mortality in COVID-19 Patients: Analysis of a National Federated Database

Ivermectin, more evidence
https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A (https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A)


Covid can cause brain damage even in mild or asymptomatic cases. We're going to have a real epidemic of dementia in a few years time.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/07/covid-can-shrink-brain-and-damage-its-tissue-finds-research
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 07, 2022, 09:29:46 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on March 07, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Follow the evidence, wherever it leads

Treatment with Ivermectin Is Associated with Decreased Mortality in COVID-19 Patients: Analysis of a National Federated Database

Ivermectin, more evidence
https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A (https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A)

Point me to the peer reviewed research please.

Otherwise quit wasting everyone's time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on March 07, 2022, 10:10:49 PM
Links in the youtube video description

Whatever happened to keeping an open mind especially when more evidence is being presented to strengthen the case for a medication which costs pennies ::)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on March 07, 2022, 10:11:17 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on March 07, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Follow the evidence, wherever it leads

Treatment with Ivermectin Is Associated with Decreased Mortality in COVID-19 Patients: Analysis of a National Federated Database

Ivermectin, more evidence
https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A (https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A)

That gobshite is still at his videos I see
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on March 07, 2022, 10:35:52 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 07, 2022, 09:27:39 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on March 07, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Follow the evidence, wherever it leads

Treatment with Ivermectin Is Associated with Decreased Mortality in COVID-19 Patients: Analysis of a National Federated Database

Ivermectin, more evidence
https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A (https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A)


Covid can cause brain damage even in mild or asymptomatic cases. We're going to have a real epidemic of dementia in a few years time.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/07/covid-can-shrink-brain-and-damage-its-tissue-finds-research
Covid has caused all sorts of brain damage but not this kind .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on March 07, 2022, 11:18:32 PM
The certainty of some  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 10:28:36 AM
We are naturally so bidable when it comes to our health that we blindly just accept what the medics say when in effect they are just working off a list of guidelines, they just don't have time any more to offer personalised care. In fact because of the afforementioned guidelines they are not allowed to if they want to stay within the system. Green shoots of progress are starting to appear however where some medical professionals are beginning to opt out. All the same it only works if people want to take active responsibility for their own health, otherwise the current somewhat lucrative polypharmacy is your only option and good luck with that one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 10:39:38 AM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 10:28:36 AM
We are naturally so bidable when it comes to our health that we blindly just accept what the medics say when in effect they are just working off a list of guidelines, they just don't have time any more to offer personalised care. In fact because of the afforementioned guidelines they are not allowed to if they want to stay within the system. Green shoots of progress are starting to appear however where some medical professionals are beginning to opt out. All the same it only works if people want to take active responsibility for their own health, otherwise the current somewhat lucrative polypharmacy is your only option and good luck with that one.

But if your not prepared to listen to general medical professionals, why would you listen to anyone? Why blindly accept what someone else is saying on Facebook, YouTube, either? Surely logic says you should side with the most peer reviewed data? Do people just accept these alternative theories to be seen to be different? 🤷‍♂️
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on March 08, 2022, 10:44:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 07, 2022, 10:35:52 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 07, 2022, 09:27:39 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on March 07, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Follow the evidence, wherever it leads

Treatment with Ivermectin Is Associated with Decreased Mortality in COVID-19 Patients: Analysis of a National Federated Database

Ivermectin, more evidence
https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A (https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A)


Covid can cause brain damage even in mild or asymptomatic cases. We're going to have a real epidemic of dementia in a few years time.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/07/covid-can-shrink-brain-and-damage-its-tissue-finds-research
Covid has caused all sorts of brain damage but not this kind .

Right wing nut decides to ignore rigorous study by health professionals. Straight out of the Sammy Wilson and Trump playbook.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 12:09:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 10:39:38 AM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 10:28:36 AM
We are naturally so bidable when it comes to our health that we blindly just accept what the medics say when in effect they are just working off a list of guidelines, they just don't have time any more to offer personalised care. In fact because of the afforementioned guidelines they are not allowed to if they want to stay within the system. Green shoots of progress are starting to appear however where some medical professionals are beginning to opt out. All the same it only works if people want to take active responsibility for their own health, otherwise the current somewhat lucrative polypharmacy is your only option and good luck with that one.

But if your not prepared to listen to general medical professionals, why would you listen to anyone? Why blindly accept what someone else is saying on Facebook, YouTube, either? Surely logic says you should side with the most peer reviewed data? Do people just accept these alternative theories to be seen to be different? 🤷‍♂️
What would be the point of being different if you weren't the better for it? The NHS spend £10billion/annum treating diabetes and its complications yet some "maverick" doctors have worked out that by using a number of simple steps patients can put their disease into remmission instead of looking forward to an almost certain future of CVD, macular degeneration, amputations etc etc.
Nobody wants to know, why is that? Thankfully it hasn't happened here but in other countries doctors have been threatened with deregistration for doing the same thing. Look up Dr Gary Fettke court case in Tasmania, the establishment tried to take him out by the roots but were found out in the courty room. Personally, I believe this is symptomatic of a wider problem in health service provision currently and as result I chose to be more discerning in relation to any medical advice I am given.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 01:20:15 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 12:09:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 10:39:38 AM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 10:28:36 AM
We are naturally so bidable when it comes to our health that we blindly just accept what the medics say when in effect they are just working off a list of guidelines, they just don't have time any more to offer personalised care. In fact because of the afforementioned guidelines they are not allowed to if they want to stay within the system. Green shoots of progress are starting to appear however where some medical professionals are beginning to opt out. All the same it only works if people want to take active responsibility for their own health, otherwise the current somewhat lucrative polypharmacy is your only option and good luck with that one.

But if your not prepared to listen to general medical professionals, why would you listen to anyone? Why blindly accept what someone else is saying on Facebook, YouTube, either? Surely logic says you should side with the most peer reviewed data? Do people just accept these alternative theories to be seen to be different? 🤷‍♂️
What would be the point of being different if you weren't the better for it? The NHS spend £10billion/annum treating diabetes and its complications yet some "maverick" doctors have worked out that by using a number of simple steps patients can put their disease into remmission instead of looking forward to an almost certain future of CVD, macular degeneration, amputations etc etc.
Nobody wants to know, why is that? Thankfully it hasn't happened here but in other countries doctors have been threatened with deregistration for doing the same thing. Look up Dr Gary Fettke court case in Tasmania, the establishment tried to take him out by the roots but were found out in the courty room. Personally, I believe this is symptomatic of a wider problem in health service provision currently and as result I chose to be more discerning in relation to any medical advice I am given.

What's good for you, won't necessarily be good for everyone. Not everyone will be able to make the same changes due to medical and personal reasons. Changes in treatments can take time to filter through while data looked at and analysed.
But that's an aside, I could quote you links to the good treatment by the nhs of diabetes. So why have you decided that that data isn't reliable and these "maverick" doctors are? Is it better peer reviewed data? Or is it just that you want to believe it? I just want to know how you filter what to believe in and what not to?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 01:20:15 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 12:09:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 10:39:38 AM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 10:28:36 AM
We are naturally so bidable when it comes to our health that we blindly just accept what the medics say when in effect they are just working off a list of guidelines, they just don't have time any more to offer personalised care. In fact because of the afforementioned guidelines they are not allowed to if they want to stay within the system. Green shoots of progress are starting to appear however where some medical professionals are beginning to opt out. All the same it only works if people want to take active responsibility for their own health, otherwise the current somewhat lucrative polypharmacy is your only option and good luck with that one.

But if your not prepared to listen to general medical professionals, why would you listen to anyone? Why blindly accept what someone else is saying on Facebook, YouTube, either? Surely logic says you should side with the most peer reviewed data? Do people just accept these alternative theories to be seen to be different? 🤷‍♂️
What would be the point of being different if you weren't the better for it? The NHS spend £10billion/annum treating diabetes and its complications yet some "maverick" doctors have worked out that by using a number of simple steps patients can put their disease into remmission instead of looking forward to an almost certain future of CVD, macular degeneration, amputations etc etc.
Nobody wants to know, why is that? Thankfully it hasn't happened here but in other countries doctors have been threatened with deregistration for doing the same thing. Look up Dr Gary Fettke court case in Tasmania, the establishment tried to take him out by the roots but were found out in the courty room. Personally, I believe this is symptomatic of a wider problem in health service provision currently and as result I chose to be more discerning in relation to any medical advice I am given.

What's good for you, won't necessarily be good for everyone. Not everyone will be able to make the same changes due to medical and personal reasons. Changes in treatments can take time to filter through while data looked at and analysed.
But that's an aside, I could quote you links to the good treatment by the nhs of diabetes. So why have you decided that that data isn't reliable and these "maverick" doctors are? Is it better peer reviewed data? Or is it just that you want to believe it? I just want to know how you filter what to believe in and what not to?
I'd really be interested in those links when you get a chance, no rush mind. All the same the testimonies of the patients who have put their T2 into remission and alleviated life altering symptoms is compelling for me any way. Other people like taking drugs which all the rest of us have to pay for and choke up the system with the complications of a chronic disease that is largely avoidable. Then others others who have the misfortune to be afflicted by an acute condition cannot get access to the treatment they deserve. The only reason I can deduce is that there is no money in it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 02:12:35 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 01:20:15 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 12:09:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 10:39:38 AM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 10:28:36 AM
We are naturally so bidable when it comes to our health that we blindly just accept what the medics say when in effect they are just working off a list of guidelines, they just don't have time any more to offer personalised care. In fact because of the afforementioned guidelines they are not allowed to if they want to stay within the system. Green shoots of progress are starting to appear however where some medical professionals are beginning to opt out. All the same it only works if people want to take active responsibility for their own health, otherwise the current somewhat lucrative polypharmacy is your only option and good luck with that one.

But if your not prepared to listen to general medical professionals, why would you listen to anyone? Why blindly accept what someone else is saying on Facebook, YouTube, either? Surely logic says you should side with the most peer reviewed data? Do people just accept these alternative theories to be seen to be different? 🤷‍♂️
What would be the point of being different if you weren't the better for it? The NHS spend £10billion/annum treating diabetes and its complications yet some "maverick" doctors have worked out that by using a number of simple steps patients can put their disease into remmission instead of looking forward to an almost certain future of CVD, macular degeneration, amputations etc etc.
Nobody wants to know, why is that? Thankfully it hasn't happened here but in other countries doctors have been threatened with deregistration for doing the same thing. Look up Dr Gary Fettke court case in Tasmania, the establishment tried to take him out by the roots but were found out in the courty room. Personally, I believe this is symptomatic of a wider problem in health service provision currently and as result I chose to be more discerning in relation to any medical advice I am given.

What's good for you, won't necessarily be good for everyone. Not everyone will be able to make the same changes due to medical and personal reasons. Changes in treatments can take time to filter through while data looked at and analysed.
But that's an aside, I could quote you links to the good treatment by the nhs of diabetes. So why have you decided that that data isn't reliable and these "maverick" doctors are? Is it better peer reviewed data? Or is it just that you want to believe it? I just want to know how you filter what to believe in and what not to?
I'd really be interested in those links when you get a chance, no rush mind. All the same the testimonies of the patients who have put their T2 into remission and alleviated life altering symptoms is compelling for me any way. Other people like taking drugs which all the rest of us have to pay for and choke up the system with the complications of a chronic disease that is largely avoidable. Then others others who have the misfortune to be afflicted by an acute condition cannot get access to the treatment they deserve. The only reason I can deduce is that there is no money in it.

From a very quick Google.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/new-nhs-diabetes-diet-helps-6610835.amp

No pills to be popped here just diet and shakes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10505877/amp/Three-jabs-year-new-NHS-drug-save-eyesight-800-000-Brits-experts-say.html

Looks to me that the NHS is looking at both medical and diet interventions. As I said before, what works for one person won't always work for others. It's not always a conspiracy.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 02:12:35 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 01:20:15 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 12:09:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 10:39:38 AM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 10:28:36 AM
We are naturally so bidable when it comes to our health that we blindly just accept what the medics say when in effect they are just working off a list of guidelines, they just don't have time any more to offer personalised care. In fact because of the afforementioned guidelines they are not allowed to if they want to stay within the system. Green shoots of progress are starting to appear however where some medical professionals are beginning to opt out. All the same it only works if people want to take active responsibility for their own health, otherwise the current somewhat lucrative polypharmacy is your only option and good luck with that one.

But if your not prepared to listen to general medical professionals, why would you listen to anyone? Why blindly accept what someone else is saying on Facebook, YouTube, either? Surely logic says you should side with the most peer reviewed data? Do people just accept these alternative theories to be seen to be different? 🤷‍♂️
What would be the point of being different if you weren't the better for it? The NHS spend £10billion/annum treating diabetes and its complications yet some "maverick" doctors have worked out that by using a number of simple steps patients can put their disease into remmission instead of looking forward to an almost certain future of CVD, macular degeneration, amputations etc etc.
Nobody wants to know, why is that? Thankfully it hasn't happened here but in other countries doctors have been threatened with deregistration for doing the same thing. Look up Dr Gary Fettke court case in Tasmania, the establishment tried to take him out by the roots but were found out in the courty room. Personally, I believe this is symptomatic of a wider problem in health service provision currently and as result I chose to be more discerning in relation to any medical advice I am given.

What's good for you, won't necessarily be good for everyone. Not everyone will be able to make the same changes due to medical and personal reasons. Changes in treatments can take time to filter through while data looked at and analysed.
But that's an aside, I could quote you links to the good treatment by the nhs of diabetes. So why have you decided that that data isn't reliable and these "maverick" doctors are? Is it better peer reviewed data? Or is it just that you want to believe it? I just want to know how you filter what to believe in and what not to?
I'd really be interested in those links when you get a chance, no rush mind. All the same the testimonies of the patients who have put their T2 into remission and alleviated life altering symptoms is compelling for me any way. Other people like taking drugs which all the rest of us have to pay for and choke up the system with the complications of a chronic disease that is largely avoidable. Then others others who have the misfortune to be afflicted by an acute condition cannot get access to the treatment they deserve. The only reason I can deduce is that there is no money in it.

From a very quick Google.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/new-nhs-diabetes-diet-helps-6610835.amp

No pills to be popped here just diet and shakes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10505877/amp/Three-jabs-year-new-NHS-drug-save-eyesight-800-000-Brits-experts-say.html

Looks to me that the NHS is looking at both medical and diet interventions. As I said before, what works for one person won't always work for others. It's not always a conspiracy.
Looks to me that the NHS may be forced to change due to the weight of evidence most likely. Slightly disturbing that they would promote these soups and shakes products which no doubt will be on prescription. For the purpose of the trial I can live with it as it at least proves something. I would advocate for real food myself.
Still looks like there will be an extra 5 billion in the coffers in the next couple of years.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 03:03:41 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 02:12:35 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 01:20:15 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 12:09:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 10:39:38 AM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 10:28:36 AM
We are naturally so bidable when it comes to our health that we blindly just accept what the medics say when in effect they are just working off a list of guidelines, they just don't have time any more to offer personalised care. In fact because of the afforementioned guidelines they are not allowed to if they want to stay within the system. Green shoots of progress are starting to appear however where some medical professionals are beginning to opt out. All the same it only works if people want to take active responsibility for their own health, otherwise the current somewhat lucrative polypharmacy is your only option and good luck with that one.

But if your not prepared to listen to general medical professionals, why would you listen to anyone? Why blindly accept what someone else is saying on Facebook, YouTube, either? Surely logic says you should side with the most peer reviewed data? Do people just accept these alternative theories to be seen to be different? 🤷‍♂️
What would be the point of being different if you weren't the better for it? The NHS spend £10billion/annum treating diabetes and its complications yet some "maverick" doctors have worked out that by using a number of simple steps patients can put their disease into remmission instead of looking forward to an almost certain future of CVD, macular degeneration, amputations etc etc.
Nobody wants to know, why is that? Thankfully it hasn't happened here but in other countries doctors have been threatened with deregistration for doing the same thing. Look up Dr Gary Fettke court case in Tasmania, the establishment tried to take him out by the roots but were found out in the courty room. Personally, I believe this is symptomatic of a wider problem in health service provision currently and as result I chose to be more discerning in relation to any medical advice I am given.

What's good for you, won't necessarily be good for everyone. Not everyone will be able to make the same changes due to medical and personal reasons. Changes in treatments can take time to filter through while data looked at and analysed.
But that's an aside, I could quote you links to the good treatment by the nhs of diabetes. So why have you decided that that data isn't reliable and these "maverick" doctors are? Is it better peer reviewed data? Or is it just that you want to believe it? I just want to know how you filter what to believe in and what not to?
I'd really be interested in those links when you get a chance, no rush mind. All the same the testimonies of the patients who have put their T2 into remission and alleviated life altering symptoms is compelling for me any way. Other people like taking drugs which all the rest of us have to pay for and choke up the system with the complications of a chronic disease that is largely avoidable. Then others others who have the misfortune to be afflicted by an acute condition cannot get access to the treatment they deserve. The only reason I can deduce is that there is no money in it.

From a very quick Google.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/new-nhs-diabetes-diet-helps-6610835.amp

No pills to be popped here just diet and shakes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10505877/amp/Three-jabs-year-new-NHS-drug-save-eyesight-800-000-Brits-experts-say.html

Looks to me that the NHS is looking at both medical and diet interventions. As I said before, what works for one person won't always work for others. It's not always a conspiracy.
Looks to me that the NHS may be forced to change due to the weight of evidence most likely. Slightly disturbing that they would promote these soups and shakes products which no doubt will be on prescription. For the purpose of the trial I can live with it as it at least proves something. I would advocate for real food myself.
Still looks like there will be an extra 5 billion in the coffers in the next couple of years.

I'm kinda glad the NHS wait for evidence before making changes to treatments myself......
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on March 08, 2022, 03:22:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 08, 2022, 10:44:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 07, 2022, 10:35:52 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 07, 2022, 09:27:39 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on March 07, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Follow the evidence, wherever it leads

Treatment with Ivermectin Is Associated with Decreased Mortality in COVID-19 Patients: Analysis of a National Federated Database

Ivermectin, more evidence
https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A (https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A)


Covid can cause brain damage even in mild or asymptomatic cases. We're going to have a real epidemic of dementia in a few years time.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/07/covid-can-shrink-brain-and-damage-its-tissue-finds-research
Covid has caused all sorts of brain damage but not this kind .

Right wing nut decides to ignore rigorous study by health professionals. Straight out of the Sammy Wilson and Trump playbook.
always quick with the insults the same few guys .
The study says it may be reversible on its own .
It says that existing drugs may be repurposed to treat it , people calling for existing drugs to be repurposed to treat Covid were called idiot anti vaxxers a few weeks ago
Go back through the thread I talked about Covid causing clots around may 2020 and to take vitamin d and c with zinc everyday to boost immune system.
People with any sense new that for Covid to go away we would all need to get it and the virus would get less lethal the longer it went on .
People will also tell you the vaccines worked great even though everyone double or tripled vaxxed got Covid ,  (but we didn't die )

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on March 08, 2022, 03:38:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 08, 2022, 03:22:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 08, 2022, 10:44:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 07, 2022, 10:35:52 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 07, 2022, 09:27:39 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on March 07, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Follow the evidence, wherever it leads

Treatment with Ivermectin Is Associated with Decreased Mortality in COVID-19 Patients: Analysis of a National Federated Database

Ivermectin, more evidence
https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A (https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A)


Covid can cause brain damage even in mild or asymptomatic cases. We're going to have a real epidemic of dementia in a few years time.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/07/covid-can-shrink-brain-and-damage-its-tissue-finds-research
Covid has caused all sorts of brain damage but not this kind .

Right wing nut decides to ignore rigorous study by health professionals. Straight out of the Sammy Wilson and Trump playbook.
always quick with the insults the same few guys .
The study says it may be reversible on its own .
It says that existing drugs may be repurposed to treat it , people calling for existing drugs to be repurposed to treat Covid were called idiot anti vaxxers a few weeks ago
Go back through the thread I talked about Covid causing clots around may 2020 and to take vitamin d and c with zinc everyday to boost immune system.
People with any sense new that for Covid to go away we would all need to get it and the virus would get less lethal the longer it went on .
People will also tell you the vaccines worked great even though everyone double or tripled vaxxed got Covid ,  (but we didn't die )

The brain damage may be reversible and it also may not be ie it could well be permanent. Exisiting drugs may be repurposed if they are effective which hasn't been shown yet, trials are ongoing and these drugs may turn out to be no good. The vaccines have worked extremely well as can be seen by the death rate from omicron. Among the unvaccinated the death rate from omicron is higher than with the original alpha variant. Among the vaccinated the death rate is practically zero. Also being vaccinated halves the risk of long covid. All your speculation and anecdotal evidence and wishful thinking doesn't trump the science.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on March 08, 2022, 04:19:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 08, 2022, 03:38:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 08, 2022, 03:22:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 08, 2022, 10:44:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 07, 2022, 10:35:52 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 07, 2022, 09:27:39 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on March 07, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Follow the evidence, wherever it leads

Treatment with Ivermectin Is Associated with Decreased Mortality in COVID-19 Patients: Analysis of a National Federated Database

Ivermectin, more evidence
https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A (https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A)


Covid can cause brain damage even in mild or asymptomatic cases. We're going to have a real epidemic of dementia in a few years time.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/07/covid-can-shrink-brain-and-damage-its-tissue-finds-research
Covid has caused all sorts of brain damage but not this kind .

Right wing nut decides to ignore rigorous study by health professionals. Straight out of the Sammy Wilson and Trump playbook.
always quick with the insults the same few guys .
The study says it may be reversible on its own .
It says that existing drugs may be repurposed to treat it , people calling for existing drugs to be repurposed to treat Covid were called idiot anti vaxxers a few weeks ago
Go back through the thread I talked about Covid causing clots around may 2020 and to take vitamin d and c with zinc everyday to boost immune system.
People with any sense new that for Covid to go away we would all need to get it and the virus would get less lethal the longer it went on .
People will also tell you the vaccines worked great even though everyone double or tripled vaxxed got Covid ,  (but we didn't die )

The brain damage may be reversible and it also may not be ie it could well be permanent. Exisiting drugs may be repurposed if they are effective which hasn't been shown yet, trials are ongoing and these drugs may turn out to be no good. The vaccines have worked extremely well as can be seen by the death rate from omicron. Among the unvaccinated the death rate from omicron is higher than with the original alpha variant. Among the vaccinated the death rate is practically zero. Also being vaccinated halves the risk of long covid. All your speculation and anecdotal evidence and wishful thinking doesn't trump the science.
if you got vaccinated 8/9 weeks ago you are unvaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 08, 2022, 04:38:03 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 08, 2022, 04:19:21 PM
If you got vaccinated 8/9 weeks ago you are unvaccinated.

This is a lie. Effectiveness against infection may decrease, but effectiveness against serious disease and hospitalisation will not decrease much. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7107e2.htm?s_cid=mm7107e2_w
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on March 08, 2022, 05:33:02 PM
QuotePeople will also tell you the vaccines worked great even though everyone double or tripled vaxxed got Covid ,  (but we didn't die )

I can't believe this is still being spouted. Well actually I can  :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 05:44:16 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 03:03:41 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 02:12:35 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 01:20:15 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 12:09:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 10:39:38 AM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 10:28:36 AM
We are naturally so bidable when it comes to our health that we blindly just accept what the medics say when in effect they are just working off a list of guidelines, they just don't have time any more to offer personalised care. In fact because of the afforementioned guidelines they are not allowed to if they want to stay within the system. Green shoots of progress are starting to appear however where some medical professionals are beginning to opt out. All the same it only works if people want to take active responsibility for their own health, otherwise the current somewhat lucrative polypharmacy is your only option and good luck with that one.

But if your not prepared to listen to general medical professionals, why would you listen to anyone? Why blindly accept what someone else is saying on Facebook, YouTube, either? Surely logic says you should side with the most peer reviewed data? Do people just accept these alternative theories to be seen to be different? 🤷‍♂️
What would be the point of being different if you weren't the better for it? The NHS spend £10billion/annum treating diabetes and its complications yet some "maverick" doctors have worked out that by using a number of simple steps patients can put their disease into remmission instead of looking forward to an almost certain future of CVD, macular degeneration, amputations etc etc.
Nobody wants to know, why is that? Thankfully it hasn't happened here but in other countries doctors have been threatened with deregistration for doing the same thing. Look up Dr Gary Fettke court case in Tasmania, the establishment tried to take him out by the roots but were found out in the courty room. Personally, I believe this is symptomatic of a wider problem in health service provision currently and as result I chose to be more discerning in relation to any medical advice I am given.

What's good for you, won't necessarily be good for everyone. Not everyone will be able to make the same changes due to medical and personal reasons. Changes in treatments can take time to filter through while data looked at and analysed.
But that's an aside, I could quote you links to the good treatment by the nhs of diabetes. So why have you decided that that data isn't reliable and these "maverick" doctors are? Is it better peer reviewed data? Or is it just that you want to believe it? I just want to know how you filter what to believe in and what not to?
I'd really be interested in those links when you get a chance, no rush mind. All the same the testimonies of the patients who have put their T2 into remission and alleviated life altering symptoms is compelling for me any way. Other people like taking drugs which all the rest of us have to pay for and choke up the system with the complications of a chronic disease that is largely avoidable. Then others others who have the misfortune to be afflicted by an acute condition cannot get access to the treatment they deserve. The only reason I can deduce is that there is no money in it.

From a very quick Google.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/new-nhs-diabetes-diet-helps-6610835.amp

No pills to be popped here just diet and shakes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10505877/amp/Three-jabs-year-new-NHS-drug-save-eyesight-800-000-Brits-experts-say.html

Looks to me that the NHS is looking at both medical and diet interventions. As I said before, what works for one person won't always work for others. It's not always a conspiracy.
Looks to me that the NHS may be forced to change due to the weight of evidence most likely. Slightly disturbing that they would promote these soups and shakes products which no doubt will be on prescription. For the purpose of the trial I can live with it as it at least proves something. I would advocate for real food myself.
Still looks like there will be an extra 5 billion in the coffers in the next couple of years.

I'm kinda glad the NHS wait for evidence before making changes to treatments myself......
If you were a T2 diabetic would you be glad that they have been doling out drugs and flawed nutritional advice for years while you get fatter and sicker when the answer for someone who does not tolerate carbohydrate well is a low carb diet. Sounds like a 1st year biology project. My fat, going blind T2 mate hasn't been offered this but he places all his trust in the doctor and if he/she says carry on as normal thats what he'll do. Time is not on his side and many more besides him. A couple of points from the article below stand out, what exactly do the NHS have to lose by rolling this out nationally apart from the displeasure of the diabetic drug business.

"Thousands more people have access to a "life-changing" diet piloted by the NHS to fight diabetes after early success sees participants lose two stone in twelve weeks.

Early stages of the programme showed positive signs that participants could potentially put their Type 2 diabetes into remission through weight loss."
"Weight loss helps people with diabetes to control their blood sugar levels, and reduces the need for diabetes-related medication.

"Roughly one in 10 prescriptions written by GPs are for treating diabetes, a condition that is estimated to cost the NHS £10 billion a year."
As the number of people receiving diabetes treatment continues to grow, projections show that nearly 39,000 more people could suffer a heart attack in 2035, and more than 50,000 could experience a stroke, the NHS said."

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on March 08, 2022, 06:52:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 08, 2022, 04:19:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 08, 2022, 03:38:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 08, 2022, 03:22:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 08, 2022, 10:44:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 07, 2022, 10:35:52 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 07, 2022, 09:27:39 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on March 07, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Follow the evidence, wherever it leads

Treatment with Ivermectin Is Associated with Decreased Mortality in COVID-19 Patients: Analysis of a National Federated Database

Ivermectin, more evidence
https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A (https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A)


Covid can cause brain damage even in mild or asymptomatic cases. We're going to have a real epidemic of dementia in a few years time.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/07/covid-can-shrink-brain-and-damage-its-tissue-finds-research
Covid has caused all sorts of brain damage but not this kind .

Right wing nut decides to ignore rigorous study by health professionals. Straight out of the Sammy Wilson and Trump playbook.
always quick with the insults the same few guys .
The study says it may be reversible on its own .
It says that existing drugs may be repurposed to treat it , people calling for existing drugs to be repurposed to treat Covid were called idiot anti vaxxers a few weeks ago
Go back through the thread I talked about Covid causing clots around may 2020 and to take vitamin d and c with zinc everyday to boost immune system.
People with any sense new that for Covid to go away we would all need to get it and the virus would get less lethal the longer it went on .
People will also tell you the vaccines worked great even though everyone double or tripled vaxxed got Covid ,  (but we didn't die )

The brain damage may be reversible and it also may not be ie it could well be permanent. Exisiting drugs may be repurposed if they are effective which hasn't been shown yet, trials are ongoing and these drugs may turn out to be no good. The vaccines have worked extremely well as can be seen by the death rate from omicron. Among the unvaccinated the death rate from omicron is higher than with the original alpha variant. Among the vaccinated the death rate is practically zero. Also being vaccinated halves the risk of long covid. All your speculation and anecdotal evidence and wishful thinking doesn't trump the science.
if you got vaccinated 8/9 weeks ago you are unvaccinated.

More science Sammy Wilson/Trump style from Gmac. In other words complete garbage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on March 08, 2022, 07:30:26 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 08, 2022, 06:52:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 08, 2022, 04:19:21 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 08, 2022, 03:38:59 PM
Quote from: Gmac on March 08, 2022, 03:22:10 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 08, 2022, 10:44:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on March 07, 2022, 10:35:52 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 07, 2022, 09:27:39 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on March 07, 2022, 09:09:45 PM
Follow the evidence, wherever it leads

Treatment with Ivermectin Is Associated with Decreased Mortality in COVID-19 Patients: Analysis of a National Federated Database

Ivermectin, more evidence
https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A (https://youtu.be/rfyOihhAD4A)


Covid can cause brain damage even in mild or asymptomatic cases. We're going to have a real epidemic of dementia in a few years time.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/07/covid-can-shrink-brain-and-damage-its-tissue-finds-research
Covid has caused all sorts of brain damage but not this kind .

Right wing nut decides to ignore rigorous study by health professionals. Straight out of the Sammy Wilson and Trump playbook.
always quick with the insults the same few guys .
The study says it may be reversible on its own .
It says that existing drugs may be repurposed to treat it , people calling for existing drugs to be repurposed to treat Covid were called idiot anti vaxxers a few weeks ago
Go back through the thread I talked about Covid causing clots around may 2020 and to take vitamin d and c with zinc everyday to boost immune system.
People with any sense new that for Covid to go away we would all need to get it and the virus would get less lethal the longer it went on .
People will also tell you the vaccines worked great even though everyone double or tripled vaxxed got Covid ,  (but we didn't die )

The brain damage may be reversible and it also may not be ie it could well be permanent. Exisiting drugs may be repurposed if they are effective which hasn't been shown yet, trials are ongoing and these drugs may turn out to be no good. The vaccines have worked extremely well as can be seen by the death rate from omicron. Among the unvaccinated the death rate from omicron is higher than with the original alpha variant. Among the vaccinated the death rate is practically zero. Also being vaccinated halves the risk of long covid. All your speculation and anecdotal evidence and wishful thinking doesn't trump the science.
if you got vaccinated 8/9 weeks ago you are unvaccinated.

More science Sammy Wilson/Trump style from Gmac. In other words complete garbage.
trump is a huge vaccine promoter because he set up production of it , no idea who Sammy Wilson is ? He anything to Russell ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 08, 2022, 07:32:42 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 08, 2022, 06:52:11 PM
More science Sammy Wilson/Trump style from Gmac. In other words complete garbage.

It is a bit like saying that a lot of people whose cars were written off had a sore shoulder because of the seat belt and the air bag hurt their nose, so seat belts and airbags do not work.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 08, 2022, 07:40:46 PM
The number in hospital with Covid in the 26 counties is up 30% in a week, with 11,000 cases today. This is the price for the reckless premature removal of all restrictions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on March 08, 2022, 07:52:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 08, 2022, 07:40:46 PM
The number in hospital with Covid in the 26 counties is up 30% in a week, with 11,000 cases today. This is the price for the reckless premature removal of all restrictions.
it's over bro time to get your Ukrainian flag out .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on March 08, 2022, 09:20:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 08, 2022, 07:40:46 PM
The number in hospital with Covid in the 26 counties is up 30% in a week, with 11,000 cases today. This is the price for the reckless premature removal of all restrictions.

Hospitalisations up more than 20% in Britain also. Vast majority of those still unvaccinated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on March 08, 2022, 09:27:38 PM
Does anyone want to drill down and ask what percentage of those in hospital 'with' Covid are in hospital because of them having Covid. It kind of matters
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 08, 2022, 09:48:55 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on March 08, 2022, 09:27:38 PM
Does anyone want to drill down and ask what percentage of those in hospital 'with' Covid are in hospital because of them having Covid. It kind of matters

No doubt some of them are not primarily there because of Covid. However, it complicates treatment and still leaves the hospital under pressure in any case.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Blowitupref on March 08, 2022, 10:11:58 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 08, 2022, 07:40:46 PM
The number in hospital with Covid in the 26 counties is up 30% in a week, with 11,000 cases today. This is the price for the reckless premature removal of all restrictions.
Reckless and premature? it was in the NPHET letters to government once restrictions was lifted to expect a rise in hospital numbers the first week or so before things settle down again, and the current hospital numbers includes outbreaks within than just all admissions. ICU figures remains stable this week compared to last.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 10:42:52 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 05:44:16 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 03:03:41 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 02:12:35 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 01:20:15 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 12:09:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 10:39:38 AM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 10:28:36 AM
We are naturally so bidable when it comes to our health that we blindly just accept what the medics say when in effect they are just working off a list of guidelines, they just don't have time any more to offer personalised care. In fact because of the afforementioned guidelines they are not allowed to if they want to stay within the system. Green shoots of progress are starting to appear however where some medical professionals are beginning to opt out. All the same it only works if people want to take active responsibility for their own health, otherwise the current somewhat lucrative polypharmacy is your only option and good luck with that one.

But if your not prepared to listen to general medical professionals, why would you listen to anyone? Why blindly accept what someone else is saying on Facebook, YouTube, either? Surely logic says you should side with the most peer reviewed data? Do people just accept these alternative theories to be seen to be different? 🤷‍♂️
What would be the point of being different if you weren't the better for it? The NHS spend £10billion/annum treating diabetes and its complications yet some "maverick" doctors have worked out that by using a number of simple steps patients can put their disease into remmission instead of looking forward to an almost certain future of CVD, macular degeneration, amputations etc etc.
Nobody wants to know, why is that? Thankfully it hasn't happened here but in other countries doctors have been threatened with deregistration for doing the same thing. Look up Dr Gary Fettke court case in Tasmania, the establishment tried to take him out by the roots but were found out in the courty room. Personally, I believe this is symptomatic of a wider problem in health service provision currently and as result I chose to be more discerning in relation to any medical advice I am given.

What's good for you, won't necessarily be good for everyone. Not everyone will be able to make the same changes due to medical and personal reasons. Changes in treatments can take time to filter through while data looked at and analysed.
But that's an aside, I could quote you links to the good treatment by the nhs of diabetes. So why have you decided that that data isn't reliable and these "maverick" doctors are? Is it better peer reviewed data? Or is it just that you want to believe it? I just want to know how you filter what to believe in and what not to?
I'd really be interested in those links when you get a chance, no rush mind. All the same the testimonies of the patients who have put their T2 into remission and alleviated life altering symptoms is compelling for me any way. Other people like taking drugs which all the rest of us have to pay for and choke up the system with the complications of a chronic disease that is largely avoidable. Then others others who have the misfortune to be afflicted by an acute condition cannot get access to the treatment they deserve. The only reason I can deduce is that there is no money in it.

From a very quick Google.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/new-nhs-diabetes-diet-helps-6610835.amp

No pills to be popped here just diet and shakes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10505877/amp/Three-jabs-year-new-NHS-drug-save-eyesight-800-000-Brits-experts-say.html

Looks to me that the NHS is looking at both medical and diet interventions. As I said before, what works for one person won't always work for others. It's not always a conspiracy.
Looks to me that the NHS may be forced to change due to the weight of evidence most likely. Slightly disturbing that they would promote these soups and shakes products which no doubt will be on prescription. For the purpose of the trial I can live with it as it at least proves something. I would advocate for real food myself.
Still looks like there will be an extra 5 billion in the coffers in the next couple of years.

I'm kinda glad the NHS wait for evidence before making changes to treatments myself......
If you were a T2 diabetic would you be glad that they have been doling out drugs and flawed nutritional advice for years while you get fatter and sicker when the answer for someone who does not tolerate carbohydrate well is a low carb diet. Sounds like a 1st year biology project. My fat, going blind T2 mate hasn't been offered this but he places all his trust in the doctor and if he/she says carry on as normal thats what he'll do. Time is not on his side and many more besides him. A couple of points from the article below stand out, what exactly do the NHS have to lose by rolling this out nationally apart from the displeasure of the diabetic drug business.

"Thousands more people have access to a "life-changing" diet piloted by the NHS to fight diabetes after early success sees participants lose two stone in twelve weeks.

Early stages of the programme showed positive signs that participants could potentially put their Type 2 diabetes into remission through weight loss."
"Weight loss helps people with diabetes to control their blood sugar levels, and reduces the need for diabetes-related medication.

"Roughly one in 10 prescriptions written by GPs are for treating diabetes, a condition that is estimated to cost the NHS £10 billion a year."
As the number of people receiving diabetes treatment continues to grow, projections show that nearly 39,000 more people could suffer a heart attack in 2035, and more than 50,000 could experience a stroke, the NHS said."

Are you seriously trying to claim that drugs haven't had a positive effect on diabetes? Is that what your claiming?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on March 09, 2022, 05:29:08 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 10:42:52 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 05:44:16 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 03:03:41 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 02:12:35 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 01:20:15 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 12:09:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 10:39:38 AM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 10:28:36 AM
We are naturally so bidable when it comes to our health that we blindly just accept what the medics say when in effect they are just working off a list of guidelines, they just don't have time any more to offer personalised care. In fact because of the afforementioned guidelines they are not allowed to if they want to stay within the system. Green shoots of progress are starting to appear however where some medical professionals are beginning to opt out. All the same it only works if people want to take active responsibility for their own health, otherwise the current somewhat lucrative polypharmacy is your only option and good luck with that one.

But if your not prepared to listen to general medical professionals, why would you listen to anyone? Why blindly accept what someone else is saying on Facebook, YouTube, either? Surely logic says you should side with the most peer reviewed data? Do people just accept these alternative theories to be seen to be different? 🤷‍♂️
What would be the point of being different if you weren't the better for it? The NHS spend £10billion/annum treating diabetes and its complications yet some "maverick" doctors have worked out that by using a number of simple steps patients can put their disease into remmission instead of looking forward to an almost certain future of CVD, macular degeneration, amputations etc etc.
Nobody wants to know, why is that? Thankfully it hasn't happened here but in other countries doctors have been threatened with deregistration for doing the same thing. Look up Dr Gary Fettke court case in Tasmania, the establishment tried to take him out by the roots but were found out in the courty room. Personally, I believe this is symptomatic of a wider problem in health service provision currently and as result I chose to be more discerning in relation to any medical advice I am given.

What's good for you, won't necessarily be good for everyone. Not everyone will be able to make the same changes due to medical and personal reasons. Changes in treatments can take time to filter through while data looked at and analysed.
But that's an aside, I could quote you links to the good treatment by the nhs of diabetes. So why have you decided that that data isn't reliable and these "maverick" doctors are? Is it better peer reviewed data? Or is it just that you want to believe it? I just want to know how you filter what to believe in and what not to?
I'd really be interested in those links when you get a chance, no rush mind. All the same the testimonies of the patients who have put their T2 into remission and alleviated life altering symptoms is compelling for me any way. Other people like taking drugs which all the rest of us have to pay for and choke up the system with the complications of a chronic disease that is largely avoidable. Then others others who have the misfortune to be afflicted by an acute condition cannot get access to the treatment they deserve. The only reason I can deduce is that there is no money in it.

From a very quick Google.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/new-nhs-diabetes-diet-helps-6610835.amp

No pills to be popped here just diet and shakes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10505877/amp/Three-jabs-year-new-NHS-drug-save-eyesight-800-000-Brits-experts-say.html

Looks to me that the NHS is looking at both medical and diet interventions. As I said before, what works for one person won't always work for others. It's not always a conspiracy.
Looks to me that the NHS may be forced to change due to the weight of evidence most likely. Slightly disturbing that they would promote these soups and shakes products which no doubt will be on prescription. For the purpose of the trial I can live with it as it at least proves something. I would advocate for real food myself.
Still looks like there will be an extra 5 billion in the coffers in the next couple of years.

I'm kinda glad the NHS wait for evidence before making changes to treatments myself......
If you were a T2 diabetic would you be glad that they have been doling out drugs and flawed nutritional advice for years while you get fatter and sicker when the answer for someone who does not tolerate carbohydrate well is a low carb diet. Sounds like a 1st year biology project. My fat, going blind T2 mate hasn't been offered this but he places all his trust in the doctor and if he/she says carry on as normal thats what he'll do. Time is not on his side and many more besides him. A couple of points from the article below stand out, what exactly do the NHS have to lose by rolling this out nationally apart from the displeasure of the diabetic drug business.

"Thousands more people have access to a "life-changing" diet piloted by the NHS to fight diabetes after early success sees participants lose two stone in twelve weeks.

Early stages of the programme showed positive signs that participants could potentially put their Type 2 diabetes into remission through weight loss."
"Weight loss helps people with diabetes to control their blood sugar levels, and reduces the need for diabetes-related medication.

"Roughly one in 10 prescriptions written by GPs are for treating diabetes, a condition that is estimated to cost the NHS £10 billion a year."
As the number of people receiving diabetes treatment continues to grow, projections show that nearly 39,000 more people could suffer a heart attack in 2035, and more than 50,000 could experience a stroke, the NHS said."

Are you seriously trying to claim that drugs haven't had a positive effect on diabetes? Is that what your claiming?
Are you seriously trying to suggest the opposite when the problem is getting worse? What's your answer, more drugs??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on March 09, 2022, 09:12:21 AM
Quote from: Last Man on March 09, 2022, 05:29:08 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 10:42:52 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 05:44:16 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 03:03:41 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 02:34:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 02:12:35 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 01:20:15 PM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 12:09:52 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on March 08, 2022, 10:39:38 AM
Quote from: Last Man on March 08, 2022, 10:28:36 AM
We are naturally so bidable when it comes to our health that we blindly just accept what the medics say when in effect they are just working off a list of guidelines, they just don't have time any more to offer personalised care. In fact because of the afforementioned guidelines they are not allowed to if they want to stay within the system. Green shoots of progress are starting to appear however where some medical professionals are beginning to opt out. All the same it only works if people want to take active responsibility for their own health, otherwise the current somewhat lucrative polypharmacy is your only option and good luck with that one.

But if your not prepared to listen to general medical professionals, why would you listen to anyone? Why blindly accept what someone else is saying on Facebook, YouTube, either? Surely logic says you should side with the most peer reviewed data? Do people just accept these alternative theories to be seen to be different? 🤷‍♂️
What would be the point of being different if you weren't the better for it? The NHS spend £10billion/annum treating diabetes and its complications yet some "maverick" doctors have worked out that by using a number of simple steps patients can put their disease into remmission instead of looking forward to an almost certain future of CVD, macular degeneration, amputations etc etc.
Nobody wants to know, why is that? Thankfully it hasn't happened here but in other countries doctors have been threatened with deregistration for doing the same thing. Look up Dr Gary Fettke court case in Tasmania, the establishment tried to take him out by the roots but were found out in the courty room. Personally, I believe this is symptomatic of a wider problem in health service provision currently and as result I chose to be more discerning in relation to any medical advice I am given.

What's good for you, won't necessarily be good for everyone. Not everyone will be able to make the same changes due to medical and personal reasons. Changes in treatments can take time to filter through while data looked at and analysed.
But that's an aside, I could quote you links to the good treatment by the nhs of diabetes. So why have you decided that that data isn't reliable and these "maverick" doctors are? Is it better peer reviewed data? Or is it just that you want to believe it? I just want to know how you filter what to believe in and what not to?
I'd really be interested in those links when you get a chance, no rush mind. All the same the testimonies of the patients who have put their T2 into remission and alleviated life altering symptoms is compelling for me any way. Other people like taking drugs which all the rest of us have to pay for and choke up the system with the complications of a chronic disease that is largely avoidable. Then others others who have the misfortune to be afflicted by an acute condition cannot get access to the treatment they deserve. The only reason I can deduce is that there is no money in it.

From a very quick Google.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/new-nhs-diabetes-diet-helps-6610835.amp

No pills to be popped here just diet and shakes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10505877/amp/Three-jabs-year-new-NHS-drug-save-eyesight-800-000-Brits-experts-say.html

Looks to me that the NHS is looking at both medical and diet interventions. As I said before, what works for one person won't always work for others. It's not always a conspiracy.
Looks to me that the NHS may be forced to change due to the weight of evidence most likely. Slightly disturbing that they would promote these soups and shakes products which no doubt will be on prescription. For the purpose of the trial I can live with it as it at least proves something. I would advocate for real food myself.
Still looks like there will be an extra 5 billion in the coffers in the next couple of years.

I'm kinda glad the NHS wait for evidence before making changes to treatments myself......
If you were a T2 diabetic would you be glad that they have been doling out drugs and flawed nutritional advice for years while you get fatter and sicker when the answer for someone who does not tolerate carbohydrate well is a low carb diet. Sounds like a 1st year biology project. My fat, going blind T2 mate hasn't been offered this but he places all his trust in the doctor and if he/she says carry on as normal thats what he'll do. Time is not on his side and many more besides him. A couple of points from the article below stand out, what exactly do the NHS have to lose by rolling this out nationally apart from the displeasure of the diabetic drug business.

"Thousands more people have access to a "life-changing" diet piloted by the NHS to fight diabetes after early success sees participants lose two stone in twelve weeks.

Early stages of the programme showed positive signs that participants could potentially put their Type 2 diabetes into remission through weight loss."
"Weight loss helps people with diabetes to control their blood sugar levels, and reduces the need for diabetes-related medication.

"Roughly one in 10 prescriptions written by GPs are for treating diabetes, a condition that is estimated to cost the NHS £10 billion a year."
As the number of people receiving diabetes treatment continues to grow, projections show that nearly 39,000 more people could suffer a heart attack in 2035, and more than 50,000 could experience a stroke, the NHS said."

Are you seriously trying to claim that drugs haven't had a positive effect on diabetes? Is that what your claiming?
Are you seriously trying to suggest the opposite when the problem is getting worse? What's your answer, more drugs??

Here's an excellent journal on benefits of both drugs and dietary control as medical interventions for diabetes.

https://www.therapeutics.scot.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Strategy-Diabetes-Quality-Prescribing-for-Diabetes-2018.pdf


To claim "the drugs don't work" doesn't wash for me. Is it required for every patient? Not necessarily but the impact of some of the prescribed medication has changed peoples lives. I know this personally.
Check out the diabetes UK website as well if you want more information on the successes of the likes of insulin, metformin, surgery procedures that help diabetes. These are all required if diet changes alone don't have the required effect.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on March 09, 2022, 09:32:56 AM
QuoteIn a famous 1969 tobacco industry memo, one executive wrote: Doubt is our product since it is the best means of competing with the "body of fact" that exists in the mind of the general public. It is also the means of establishing a controversy. Within the business we recognize that a controversy exists.

When perverse incentives exist, we have to keep an open mind. In how many areas are the masses getting played for profit.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 15, 2022, 01:58:01 AM
Who says vaccines don;t work. NZ and HK loads of cases, NZ feck all deaths, unlike HK.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FN0isMFXsAQbJH8?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2022, 08:10:23 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 15, 2022, 01:58:01 AM
Who says vaccines don;t work. NZ and HK loads of cases, NZ feck all deaths, unlike HK.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FN0isMFXsAQbJH8?format=jpg&name=small)

China is not on top of the latest variant.
The experience in Europe/US was mitigated by vaccination but the Chinese vaccines are shite.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on March 17, 2022, 01:11:51 AM
Micheál Martin tests positive for Covid on his way into the White House. That kiboshes the Paddy's day itinerary. It is also a bit embarrassing as he should have tested himself at the embassy or wherever.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0317/1286929-taoiseach-covid-washington/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on March 19, 2022, 08:43:35 PM
https://www.wsj.com/articles/ivermectin-didnt-reduce-covid-19-hospitalizations-in-largest-trial-to-date-11647601200

Another embarrassment for the conspiracy theorists who said big pharma was preventing us from accessing a cheap "cure". No surprise to most people that a horse dewormer isn't much use in fighting covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 19, 2022, 09:26:31 PM
I say the variant in New Zealand now been the latest variant and not the more potent original, but the vaccines will have had a big say in death reduction.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Itchy on April 11, 2022, 12:56:36 PM
Anyone else seeing people catching covid again, sometimes within a month of previously having it. Its rampant where I am.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on May 12, 2022, 08:45:36 PM
Covid policies coming home to roost all across the world enjoy the recession.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 12, 2022, 08:57:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2022, 08:45:36 PM
Covid policies coming home to roost all across the world enjoy the recession.

Covid did not cause a lasting recession, increasing oil prices may have done.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 12, 2022, 09:03:00 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2022, 08:45:36 PM
Covid policies coming home to roost all across the world enjoy the recession.

Didn't realise we had been out of a recession
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on May 12, 2022, 09:05:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 12, 2022, 08:57:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2022, 08:45:36 PM
Covid policies coming home to roost all across the world enjoy the recession.

Covid did not cause a lasting recession, increasing oil prices may have done.
oil prices the only thing going through the roof ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 12, 2022, 09:16:27 PM
Yes we should just have let 'er rip. Jokes on us now :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 12, 2022, 09:46:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2022, 08:45:36 PM
Covid policies coming home to roost all across the world enjoy the recession.

Idiot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on May 12, 2022, 11:02:04 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 12, 2022, 09:46:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 12, 2022, 08:45:36 PM
Covid policies coming home to roost all across the world enjoy the recession.

Idiot.
oh, putins fault so
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 12, 2022, 11:49:52 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 12, 2022, 09:16:27 PM
Yes we should just have let 'er rip. Jokes on us now :o

Yeah, a million dead in the US from Covid is no big deal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on May 12, 2022, 11:55:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 12, 2022, 11:49:52 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 12, 2022, 09:16:27 PM
Yes we should just have let 'er rip. Jokes on us now :o

Yeah, a million dead in the US from Covid is no big deal.
700k on joes watch , obesity and old age a huge factor, lucky this didn't hit during Celtic tiger years  in Ireland
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on May 19, 2022, 03:30:51 PM
is this Monkeypox virus anything to be concerned about?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2022, 03:35:23 PM
Quote from: clarshack on May 19, 2022, 03:30:51 PM
is this Monkeypox virus anything to be concerned about?

Let me get away on holiday first ffs!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hereiam on May 19, 2022, 03:59:45 PM
Quote from: clarshack on May 19, 2022, 03:30:51 PM
is this Monkeypox virus anything to be concerned about?

Only if your riding round ye
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on May 19, 2022, 04:46:37 PM
Quote from: clarshack on May 19, 2022, 03:30:51 PM
is this Monkeypox virus anything to be concerned about?
The stress of worrying about it is doing you more harm. Go for a walk and chill out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on May 19, 2022, 04:48:07 PM
Quote from: clarshack on May 19, 2022, 03:30:51 PM
is this Monkeypox virus anything to be concerned about?

Reading about it I don't think so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on May 19, 2022, 05:09:39 PM
Quote from: clarshack on May 19, 2022, 03:30:51 PM
is this Monkeypox virus anything to be concerned about?

Part of the new world order. Monkeys taking over. We'll be their slaves. PLAN!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Ed Ricketts on May 19, 2022, 07:33:17 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2022, 05:09:39 PM
Quote from: clarshack on May 19, 2022, 03:30:51 PM
is this Monkeypox virus anything to be concerned about?

Part of the new world order. Monkeys taking over. We'll be their slaves. PLAN!

Monkeypox virus also obviously being an anagram of musk ovine proxy, which when you think about it is a very, very covert hint that the great Elon (most probably along with JFK Jr) will be the one to rise up and save the sheeple amongst us from completely relinquishing all agency to the NWO/ Clintons.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on May 19, 2022, 07:57:53 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on May 19, 2022, 03:59:45 PM
Quote from: clarshack on May 19, 2022, 03:30:51 PM
is this Monkeypox virus anything to be concerned about?

Only if your riding round ye

I'll be grand then!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on May 20, 2022, 08:08:28 PM
See the Pfizer head man talking about putting a chip into a biological  pill that you swallow , it dissolves and then alerts all relevant authorities that you've been a good boy and swallow what you're told too , maybe they could put a little monkey pox vax in there .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on May 21, 2022, 12:57:03 AM
Michelle O'Neill heads over to Edinburgh this morning and now Sturgeon has Covid. Shaking hands and whatnot without a mask in sight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on May 21, 2022, 06:17:40 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3dnkbKoj4A
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on May 21, 2022, 09:00:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 21, 2022, 12:57:03 AM
Michelle O'Neill heads over to Edinburgh this morning and now Sturgeon has Covid. Shaking hands and whatnot without a mask in sight.
Covid is over
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on May 21, 2022, 09:06:34 PM
It was over 12 weeks after it arrived.

We are paying heavily for lockdowns now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on May 21, 2022, 09:14:04 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 21, 2022, 09:00:24 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 21, 2022, 12:57:03 AM
Michelle O'Neill heads over to Edinburgh this morning and now Sturgeon has Covid. Shaking hands and whatnot without a mask in sight.
Covid is over

We may (wishfully) think that but the virus doesn't give a f**k.

On the march in the US again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on May 23, 2022, 09:59:25 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gafV6YhhnAQ

Can't see how this is a good idea.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on May 23, 2022, 01:05:24 PM
Quote from: Rudi on May 23, 2022, 09:59:25 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gafV6YhhnAQ

Can't see how this is a good idea.

Very weird indeed. Our political advocates are strangely silent on the issue.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on May 26, 2022, 09:09:54 AM
https://twitter.com/ProfTimNoakes/status/1529512775445360641?t=Q7izHZClnZsJ1vkKLteawg&s=08
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on May 26, 2022, 10:19:48 AM
Quote from: Last Man on May 26, 2022, 09:09:54 AM
https://twitter.com/ProfTimNoakes/status/1529512775445360641?t=Q7izHZClnZsJ1vkKLteawg&s=08

More conspiracy theory nonsense.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on May 26, 2022, 10:23:35 AM
Quote from: lenny on May 26, 2022, 10:19:48 AM
Quote from: Last Man on May 26, 2022, 09:09:54 AM
https://twitter.com/ProfTimNoakes/status/1529512775445360641?t=Q7izHZClnZsJ1vkKLteawg&s=08

More conspiracy theory nonsense.

He must not have received the memo re global warming scam / fake Ukraine war.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on May 26, 2022, 10:24:25 AM
Quote from: Last Man on May 26, 2022, 09:09:54 AM
https://twitter.com/ProfTimNoakes/status/1529512775445360641?t=Q7izHZClnZsJ1vkKLteawg&s=08

Lol this is the guy who wanted to proscribe ivermectin and I believe tried to take a case against his hospital to do so.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2022, 01:50:27 PM
Having not caught covid before, but woke this morning feeling, well not myself, haven't any lateral flow tests about so will pop into chemist later, hopefully they are still handing them out..  Taste smell all good and no other traditional signs.. Just achy

Do we still isolate for up to 5 days?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on June 30, 2022, 02:36:48 PM
Picked it up again, feel like crap. Most likely from a recent concert. That's twice in 5 months after ducking and diving first 2 yrs of lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 30, 2022, 02:54:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2022, 01:50:27 PM
Having not caught covid before, but woke this morning feeling, well not myself, haven't any lateral flow tests about so will pop into chemist later, hopefully they are still handing them out..  Taste smell all good and no other traditional signs.. Just achy

Do we still isolate for up to 5 days?

Start testing after 5 days an wait until two consecutive negatives. We are back in the office 2 days a week and starting to spread about again ffs. Wish Covid would do one!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2022, 02:58:55 PM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on June 30, 2022, 02:54:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2022, 01:50:27 PM
Having not caught covid before, but woke this morning feeling, well not myself, haven't any lateral flow tests about so will pop into chemist later, hopefully they are still handing them out..  Taste smell all good and no other traditional signs.. Just achy

Do we still isolate for up to 5 days?

Start testing after 5 days an wait until two consecutive negatives. We are back in the office 2 days a week and starting to spread about again ffs. Wish Covid would do one!

I'm sure there are people in certain jobs that because of this ruling will not test, at what stage is it in terms of causing potential death or respiratory complications? Are A&E's still getting plenty through their door?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 30, 2022, 03:01:28 PM
Me and the wife have it for the first time. Definitely not great craic but thankfully seems to be lifting quick enough. Worst thing is we have a very energetic toddler we can't send to nursery so that definitely adds to the challenge.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on June 30, 2022, 03:05:51 PM
What is the point of that??
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 30, 2022, 03:13:23 PM
Of what?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on June 30, 2022, 03:36:55 PM
If it was something to be even slightly concerned about there wouldn't have been all those parties in No.10. It's ok to feel not well the odd time like back in 2019.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on June 30, 2022, 03:47:31 PM
He said he doesn't feel well, and his busy toddler, who has to stay home too, isn't helping things.

Not sure why a comment like that deserves to be mocked.

Toddlers require a lot of attention at the best of times.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on June 30, 2022, 03:50:19 PM
Entered our house last weekend. Wife and toddler and baby have it, but I'm holding out so far.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 30, 2022, 03:52:20 PM
We're not supposed to be leaving the house to leave him to nursery. That and it's not really very responsible to be sending a child from a house riddled with COVID into an environment full of children who could spread it to anyone young, old, pregnant etc etc.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on June 30, 2022, 04:48:41 PM
Quote from: Last Man on June 30, 2022, 03:36:55 PM
If it was something to be even slightly concerned about there wouldn't have been all those parties in No.10. It's ok to feel not well the odd time like back in 2019.

Yes, the Question to Boris was not - Why did you have a Party?
The question should have been - Why did you feel safe to have a party?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on June 30, 2022, 05:41:04 PM
Quote from: Last Man on June 30, 2022, 03:36:55 PM
If it was something to be even slightly concerned about there wouldn't have been all those parties in No.10. It's ok to feel not well the odd time like back in 2019.
Yep. I thought we'd got to the stage of treating jt like a cold.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on June 30, 2022, 06:22:17 PM
It's a Numbers game! They've started counting what ever they can count again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 30, 2022, 06:45:05 PM
Ah I've missed the medical experts talking  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Square Ball on June 30, 2022, 10:32:07 PM
Missus has it for the first time as well, not to bad,  cold like symptoms, only done a test as work told them to,  so was pretty surprised at the result. A few off in my work as well with it and have vomiting as well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on June 30, 2022, 10:37:10 PM
I'd that bad a cough I was vomiting the first day. Wife a day behind me and seems worse than me with it. Definitely worse than a bad cold here but have been a lot sicker.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2022, 10:38:34 PM
Negative, though still head cold feeling
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on June 30, 2022, 11:48:22 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 30, 2022, 06:45:05 PM
Ah I've missed the medical experts talking  ;D
;D I saw something in the local paper about protests against a 5G mast going up in Tandragee and I laughed to myself that the loopers will be out in force again!

Covid definitely on the march again. Know a good few with it at the minute. Nothing too serious but despite it not killing people it impacts on people's work and general movements.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 01, 2022, 12:17:05 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 30, 2022, 11:48:22 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 30, 2022, 06:45:05 PM
Ah I've missed the medical experts talking  ;D
;D I saw something in the local paper about protests against a 5G mast going up in Tandragee and I laughed to myself that the loopers will be out in force again!

Covid definitely on the march again. Know a good few with it at the minute. Nothing too serious but despite it not killing people it impacts on people's work and general movements.

Only if you test
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on July 01, 2022, 02:07:33 AM
I suppose Covid is like drinking and driving, if you don't care you need not change your routine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on July 01, 2022, 06:50:47 AM
This Cardiologist doesn't care either in having the balls to push back.
https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1542510038912077825?t=rgpMyuQJ4ga36nU9TeBo-A&s=08
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on July 01, 2022, 07:47:02 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 01, 2022, 12:17:05 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 30, 2022, 11:48:22 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 30, 2022, 06:45:05 PM
Ah I've missed the medical experts talking  ;D
;D I saw something in the local paper about protests against a 5G mast going up in Tandragee and I laughed to myself that the loopers will be out in force again!

Covid definitely on the march again. Know a good few with it at the minute. Nothing too serious but despite it not killing people it impacts on people's work and general movements.

Only if you test
;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on July 01, 2022, 08:31:15 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 30, 2022, 11:48:22 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 30, 2022, 06:45:05 PM
Ah I've missed the medical experts talking  ;D
;D I saw something in the local paper about protests against a 5G mast going up in Tandragee and I laughed to myself that the loopers will be out in force again!

Covid definitely on the march again. Know a good few with it at the minute. Nothing too serious but despite it not killing people it impacts on people's work and general movements.

You have to mention bill gates in there too surely. No 5G without Bill ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on July 01, 2022, 09:10:32 AM
Quote from: Last Man on July 01, 2022, 06:50:47 AM
This Cardiologist doesn't care either in having the balls to push back.
https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1542510038912077825?t=rgpMyuQJ4ga36nU9TeBo-A&s=08

Life expectancy has been extended by 10 years in the last few decades thanks to medication.
We can treat disease now in a way never thought possible in the 70s or 80s.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on July 01, 2022, 09:48:56 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 01, 2022, 09:10:32 AM
Quote from: Last Man on July 01, 2022, 06:50:47 AM
This Cardiologist doesn't care either in having the balls to push back.
https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1542510038912077825?t=rgpMyuQJ4ga36nU9TeBo-A&s=08

Life expectancy has been extended by 10 years in the last few decades thanks to medication.
We can treat disease now in a way never thought possible in the 70s or 80s.
🤔 Life span v Health span. Which is better. A friend of mine has 3 nursing homes filled with people who barely feed themselves or wipe their own arse! So it's all good. Bravo to the system!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Scarlet on July 01, 2022, 09:57:38 AM
Our glorious leader #ThankYouTony is leaving today.

We STILL don't know if Covid cases in hospitals are from people going in because of the virus, if they went in with something else and then tested positive or if they actually got it in hospital.

He got grumpy when asked any questions and one of his tweets saw the actual riot squad on the street stopping youngsters drinking cans. Weeks later he was asked how many cases were from that gathering. He got grumpy but eventually admitted none...



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on July 01, 2022, 10:06:46 AM
Quote from: Last Man on July 01, 2022, 06:50:47 AM
This Cardiologist doesn't care either in having the balls to push back.
https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1542510038912077825?t=rgpMyuQJ4ga36nU9TeBo-A&s=08

To clarify this is not a BMA award and the BMA have played no role in the decision to make this award. We do not endorse the views of Dr Aseem Malhotra
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TabClear on July 01, 2022, 10:14:40 AM
Quote from: Last Man on July 01, 2022, 09:48:56 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 01, 2022, 09:10:32 AM
Quote from: Last Man on July 01, 2022, 06:50:47 AM
This Cardiologist doesn't care either in having the balls to push back.
https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1542510038912077825?t=rgpMyuQJ4ga36nU9TeBo-A&s=08

Life expectancy has been extended by 10 years in the last few decades thanks to medication.
We can treat disease now in a way never thought possible in the 70s or 80s.
🤔 Life span v Health span. Which is better. A friend of mine has 3 nursing homes filled with people who barely feed themselves or wipe their own arse! So it's all good. Bravo to the system!

Thats a can of worms. Not for this thread but from a personal perspective I would rather clock out "early" when I still have my full faculties rather than just survive in an home for years. Happy to save my grandkids and children a few quid as well.  I would have no issue with companies like Dignitas etc operating here, obviously under proper regulations and controls.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 01, 2022, 11:55:57 AM
Quote from: TabClear on July 01, 2022, 10:14:40 AM
Quote from: Last Man on July 01, 2022, 09:48:56 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 01, 2022, 09:10:32 AM
Quote from: Last Man on July 01, 2022, 06:50:47 AM
This Cardiologist doesn't care either in having the balls to push back.
https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1542510038912077825?t=rgpMyuQJ4ga36nU9TeBo-A&s=08

Life expectancy has been extended by 10 years in the last few decades thanks to medication.
We can treat disease now in a way never thought possible in the 70s or 80s.
🤔 Life span v Health span. Which is better. A friend of mine has 3 nursing homes filled with people who barely feed themselves or wipe their own arse! So it's all good. Bravo to the system!

Thats a can of worms. Not for this thread but from a personal perspective I would rather clock out "early" when I still have my full faculties rather than just survive in an home for years. Happy to save my grandkids and children a few quid as well.  I would have no issue with companies like Dignitas etc operating here, obviously under proper regulations and controls.

You say you'd rather clock out early... what sort of timeline are you looking at?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on July 03, 2022, 11:00:10 PM
Tested +ve on Friday, after feeling a little under the weather for the 3 or 4 days up to it.  Despite testing everyday, it took 4 days or so I reckon for the test to show a +ve.  Mild so far, and think the worst of it is over.  It does seem to be rampant at the minute given the number of people I know who've had it over last few weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: onefineday on July 04, 2022, 12:31:34 AM
Quote from: Last Man on July 01, 2022, 09:48:56 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 01, 2022, 09:10:32 AM
Quote from: Last Man on July 01, 2022, 06:50:47 AM
This Cardiologist doesn't care either in having the balls to push back.
https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1542510038912077825?t=rgpMyuQJ4ga36nU9TeBo-A&s=08

Life expectancy has been extended by 10 years in the last few decades thanks to medication.
We can treat disease now in a way never thought possible in the 70s or 80s.
🤔 Life span v Health span. Which is better. A friend of mine has 3 nursing homes filled with people who barely feed themselves or wipe their own arse! So it's all good. Bravo to the system!
Given the huge increase in lifespan, its a pretty fair assumption that health span has increased dramatically in the same period. Anecdotes about your mate's 3 nursing homes can he very easily matched and surpassed by most of us on here.
Here's mine, my paternal grandfsther and his 6 siblings all passed in their early 60s with heart issues. My father and his 7 siblings have all had some coronary issues and all are in their 70s and in pretty decent shape after surgical and ongoing pharmaceutical interventions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 04, 2022, 06:31:35 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 03, 2022, 11:00:10 PM
Tested +ve on Friday, after feeling a little under the weather for the 3 or 4 days up to it.  Despite testing everyday, it took 4 days or so I reckon for the test to show a +ve.  Mild so far, and think the worst of it is over.  It does seem to be rampant at the minute given the number of people I know who've had it over last few weeks.

Also tested positive on Friday. Just had  a bad cough and felt a bit under the weather Friday morning itself. To me, if the rest of the family didn't have it, I wouldn't have tested at all.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on July 04, 2022, 07:02:00 AM
Have a watch, very funny. Laughing is therapeutic.
https://youtu.be/bItcoUb5xsw
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: balladmaker on July 04, 2022, 11:18:53 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 04, 2022, 06:31:35 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on July 03, 2022, 11:00:10 PM
Tested +ve on Friday, after feeling a little under the weather for the 3 or 4 days up to it.  Despite testing everyday, it took 4 days or so I reckon for the test to show a +ve.  Mild so far, and think the worst of it is over.  It does seem to be rampant at the minute given the number of people I know who've had it over last few weeks.

Also tested positive on Friday. Just had  a bad cough and felt a bit under the weather Friday morning itself. To me, if the rest of the family didn't have it, I wouldn't have tested at all.

I'm putting it down to the trip to Croke Park the Sunday before. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Olly on July 04, 2022, 10:03:54 PM
Can't blame the Chinese on this new virus. I'd be more suspicious of the French or even the Swiss
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on August 01, 2022, 03:01:40 PM
Just checking in after a long time away, and yes it seems we still have fanatics!

Society simply don't have the resilience it had 50 yrs ago!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 01, 2022, 03:06:26 PM
Nobody wants to take responsibility for anything and depend on the powers that be fixing everything for them, using sensible measures or otherwise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hectic on August 01, 2022, 03:13:08 PM
It's a real issue for society.

We have sanitized everything from the playground up.

All the building blocks of resilience have been taken away.

Access to so much and many hardships removed yet so many unable to cope.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 01, 2022, 09:12:14 PM
Lads keep away from state-sponsored mainstream media.

Trust your own intuition, if things don't seem to add up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on August 01, 2022, 10:57:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 01, 2022, 09:12:14 PM
Lads keep away from state-sponsored mainstream media.

Trust your own intuition, if things don't seem to add up.
I agree and came out other side of pandemic fine , unvaccinated but miraculously alive
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2022, 11:05:44 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 01, 2022, 10:57:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 01, 2022, 09:12:14 PM
Lads keep away from state-sponsored mainstream media.

Trust your own intuition, if things don't seem to add up.
I agree and came out other side of pandemic fine , unvaccinated but miraculously alive

Not sure how you define fine  regarding your views on the gun laws though  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 01, 2022, 11:49:25 PM
This tells you all you need to know?

Pregnancy is now a high risk illness?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLUwaA4YCkU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLUwaA4YCkU)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 02, 2022, 07:31:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 01, 2022, 10:57:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 01, 2022, 09:12:14 PM
Lads keep away from state-sponsored mainstream media.

Trust your own intuition, if things don't seem to add up.
I agree and came out other side of pandemic fine , unvaccinated but miraculously alive

Many didn't though :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on August 02, 2022, 08:22:29 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2022, 07:31:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 01, 2022, 10:57:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 01, 2022, 09:12:14 PM
Lads keep away from state-sponsored mainstream media.

Trust your own intuition, if things don't seem to add up.
I agree and came out other side of pandemic fine , unvaccinated but miraculously alive

Many didn't though :o

That's the difference Tommy, you were looking out for those around you as well, not just yourself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 02, 2022, 11:23:45 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 02, 2022, 08:22:29 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2022, 07:31:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 01, 2022, 10:57:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 01, 2022, 09:12:14 PM
Lads keep away from state-sponsored mainstream media.

Trust your own intuition, if things don't seem to add up.
I agree and came out other side of pandemic fine , unvaccinated but miraculously alive

Many didn't though :o

That's the difference Tommy, you were looking out for those around you as well, not just yourself.
Yes I certainly am looking out for those around me by taking exception to the proliferation fast food joints during the last few years when obesity and T2 diabetes correlate with worst Covid outcomes. NHS spends 10billion and rising annually on treatments we are all paying taxes for when diet education protocols would fix most of it at a fraction of the cost.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on August 02, 2022, 12:40:32 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 02, 2022, 11:23:45 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 02, 2022, 08:22:29 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2022, 07:31:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 01, 2022, 10:57:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 01, 2022, 09:12:14 PM
Lads keep away from state-sponsored mainstream media.

Trust your own intuition, if things don't seem to add up.
I agree and came out other side of pandemic fine , unvaccinated but miraculously alive

Many didn't though :o

That's the difference Tommy, you were looking out for those around you as well, not just yourself.
Yes I certainly am looking out for those around me by taking exception to the proliferation fast food joints during the last few years when obesity and T2 diabetes correlate with worst Covid outcomes. NHS spends 10billion and rising annually on treatments we are all paying taxes for when diet education protocols would fix most of it at a fraction of the cost.

OK, good to hear
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 02, 2022, 12:57:23 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 01, 2022, 10:57:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 01, 2022, 09:12:14 PM
Lads keep away from state-sponsored mainstream media.

Trust your own intuition, if things don't seem to add up.
I agree and came out other side of pandemic fine , unvaccinated but miraculously alive

This is akin to saying that I have been drinking and driving for years but haven't crashed the yoke. A sample of one is not a useful statistic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 02, 2022, 01:48:02 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 02, 2022, 12:40:32 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 02, 2022, 11:23:45 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 02, 2022, 08:22:29 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2022, 07:31:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 01, 2022, 10:57:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 01, 2022, 09:12:14 PM
Lads keep away from state-sponsored mainstream media.

Trust your own intuition, if things don't seem to add up.
I agree and came out other side of pandemic fine , unvaccinated but miraculously alive

Many didn't though :o

That's the difference Tommy, you were looking out for those around you as well, not just yourself.
Yes I certainly am looking out for those around me by taking exception to the proliferation fast food joints during the last few years when obesity and T2 diabetes correlate with worst Covid outcomes. NHS spends 10billion and rising annually on treatments we are all paying taxes for when diet education protocols would fix most of it at a fraction of the cost.

OK, good to hear
Yeah I think it's a more pragmatic approach than confining us all to our house to save people who take zero responsibility for their health. Why should we be penalised for it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on August 02, 2022, 01:51:37 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 02, 2022, 08:22:29 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2022, 07:31:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 01, 2022, 10:57:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 01, 2022, 09:12:14 PM
Lads keep away from state-sponsored mainstream media.

Trust your own intuition, if things don't seem to add up.
I agree and came out other side of pandemic fine , unvaccinated but miraculously alive

Many didn't though :o

That's the difference Tommy, you were looking out for those around you as well, not just yourself.
how do you still believe that ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 02, 2022, 02:51:39 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 02, 2022, 01:48:02 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 02, 2022, 12:40:32 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 02, 2022, 11:23:45 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 02, 2022, 08:22:29 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2022, 07:31:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 01, 2022, 10:57:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 01, 2022, 09:12:14 PM
Lads keep away from state-sponsored mainstream media.

Trust your own intuition, if things don't seem to add up.
I agree and came out other side of pandemic fine , unvaccinated but miraculously alive

Many didn't though :o

That's the difference Tommy, you were looking out for those around you as well, not just yourself.
Yes I certainly am looking out for those around me by taking exception to the proliferation fast food joints during the last few years when obesity and T2 diabetes correlate with worst Covid outcomes. NHS spends 10billion and rising annually on treatments we are all paying taxes for when diet education protocols would fix most of it at a fraction of the cost.

OK, good to hear
Yeah I think it's a more pragmatic approach than confining us all to our house to save people who take zero responsibility for their health. Why should we be penalised for it?

To save all the people who do take responsibility for their health? And even the others you don't have the right to kill them so that you can go to the pub either. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on August 02, 2022, 03:48:54 PM
My wife had it last week. South Africa seems to be a breeding ground for new variants.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 02, 2022, 08:46:08 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 02, 2022, 02:51:39 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 02, 2022, 01:48:02 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 02, 2022, 12:40:32 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 02, 2022, 11:23:45 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 02, 2022, 08:22:29 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2022, 07:31:08 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 01, 2022, 10:57:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 01, 2022, 09:12:14 PM
Lads keep away from state-sponsored mainstream media.

Trust your own intuition, if things don't seem to add up.
I agree and came out other side of pandemic fine , unvaccinated but miraculously alive

Many didn't though :o

That's the difference Tommy, you were looking out for those around you as well, not just yourself.
Yes I certainly am looking out for those around me by taking exception to the proliferation fast food joints during the last few years when obesity and T2 diabetes correlate with worst Covid outcomes. NHS spends 10billion and rising annually on treatments we are all paying taxes for when diet education protocols would fix most of it at a fraction of the cost.

OK, good to hear
Yeah I think it's a more pragmatic approach than confining us all to our house to save people who take zero responsibility for their health. Why should we be penalised for it?

To save all the people who do take responsibility for their health? And even the others you don't have the right to kill them so that you can go to the pub either.
I beg to differ, the country is full of people who's BMI doesn't look to good and their bellies expanding by the week. They expect my income tax to pay for their pills and have scarce thought for their kids who will have to wipe their arse in their dotage as the care home sector is quickly becoming a basket case. And for the record I couldn't care if I never see the inside of a pub again so nothing to see on that front.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on August 12, 2022, 08:40:12 PM
CDC just announced there's no point testing anymore , no point quarantining, vaccinated and unvaccinated  have the same guidelines , pity they lied or didn't know sh;r for 2 years but feel free to get another booster.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 12, 2022, 11:39:11 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 12, 2022, 08:40:12 PM
CDC just announced there's no point testing anymore , no point quarantining, vaccinated and unvaccinated  have the same guidelines , pity they lied or didn't know sh;r for 2 years but feel free to get another booster.

What a swindle. Just shows you anything can be marketed for the masses. Would we call it hostile advertising?

A vaccine that protected you from......Getting sicker......was the last punchline they could peddle.

Talk about "The Emperor's New Clothes"!

Now skip along now.......and get your Monkeypox vaccine!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 13, 2022, 01:27:46 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 12, 2022, 08:40:12 PM
CDC just announced there's no point testing anymore , no point quarantining, vaccinated and unvaccinated  have the same guidelines , pity they lied or didn't know sh;r for 2 years but feel free to get another booster.

Speaking of liars, that's not what they said at all.

Although knowing you you're probably just spouting the latest fever swamp idiocy you heard on talk radio or Breitbart or wherever you dumpster dive for news.


https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2022/p0811-covid-guidance.html (https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2022/p0811-covid-guidance.html)

They're simply acknowledging the fact that with the country now 95% somewhat immune through vaccines and infection and the virus here to stay that guidelines have to change.

There's some f**king eejits on this board.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on August 13, 2022, 03:44:00 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2022, 01:27:46 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 12, 2022, 08:40:12 PM
CDC just announced there's no point testing anymore , no point quarantining, vaccinated and unvaccinated  have the same guidelines , pity they lied or didn't know sh;r for 2 years but feel free to get another booster.

Speaking of liars, that's not what they said at all.

Although knowing you you're probably just spouting the latest fever swamp idiocy you heard on talk radio or Breitbart or wherever you dumpster dive for news.


https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2022/p0811-covid-guidance.html (https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2022/p0811-covid-guidance.html)

They're simply acknowledging the fact that with the country now 95% somewhat immune through vaccines and infection and the virus here to stay that guidelines have to change.

There's some f**king eejits on this board.
take a look at the mandatory vaccination thread and you will see who the eejits are .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 13, 2022, 10:10:35 AM
There are eejits on both "sides" gmac.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on August 13, 2022, 04:00:39 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 13, 2022, 10:10:35 AM
There are eejits on both "sides" gmac.
maybe you should be telling j70 that not me
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 13, 2022, 04:09:46 PM
I wouldn't say you are blameless here  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on August 15, 2022, 03:45:54 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-62547503  (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-62547503)

Absolutely mental.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Barnster on August 15, 2022, 04:47:36 PM
Nicola Mallon and the SDLP would feel at home there.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 15, 2022, 04:50:03 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 15, 2022, 03:45:54 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-62547503  (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-62547503)

Absolutely mental.

"Flash lockdowns"??

Madness.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on August 15, 2022, 04:54:50 PM
Even keeled Vinay Prasad (i.e not an anti vaxxer)

Thailand Myocarditis After Vaccine Study | What can we learn? | A Doctor and Professor Reflects

https://youtu.be/8ghdyIRg748 (https://youtu.be/8ghdyIRg748)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Barnster on August 15, 2022, 06:07:46 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-62548336 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-62548336)


Get the sleeves rolled up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 07:10:08 PM
The more shots you get the worse your own immune system becomes and you become more likely to get the virus is how I see it at the moment.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 15, 2022, 07:14:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 07:10:08 PM
The more shots you get the worse your own immune system becomes and you become more likely to get the virus is how I see it at the moment.

Based on?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 07:24:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 15, 2022, 07:14:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 07:10:08 PM
The more shots you get the worse your own immune system becomes and you become more likely to get the virus is how I see it at the moment.

Based on?
common sense , something sadly lacking in most people these days .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Barnster on August 15, 2022, 07:44:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 07:24:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 15, 2022, 07:14:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 07:10:08 PM
The more shots you get the worse your own immune system becomes and you become more likely to get the virus is how I see it at the moment.

Based on?
common sense , something sadly lacking in most people these days .

But, but, but...the BBC are telling us to get it. ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on August 15, 2022, 08:15:15 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 15, 2022, 04:54:50 PM
Even keeled Vinay Prasad (i.e not an anti vaxxer)

Thailand Myocarditis After Vaccine Study | What can we learn? | A Doctor and Professor Reflects

https://youtu.be/8ghdyIRg748 (https://youtu.be/8ghdyIRg748)

Further reading on that Thailand study. 

https://thepulse.one/2022/08/14/covid-19-vaccine-myocarditis-update-from-thailand/#:~:text=Given the rates of myocarditis reported with the,after a second dose of the Pfizer vaccine.




Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 15, 2022, 08:36:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 07:24:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 15, 2022, 07:14:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 07:10:08 PM
The more shots you get the worse your own immune system becomes and you become more likely to get the virus is how I see it at the moment.

Based on?
common sense , something sadly lacking in most people these days .

Ah ok, I thought there might have been some scientific or medical basis for your declaration.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Barnster on August 15, 2022, 09:20:39 PM
Because scientific evidence was relevant for covid passports and unnecessary lock downs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 09:36:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 15, 2022, 08:36:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 07:24:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 15, 2022, 07:14:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 07:10:08 PM
The more shots you get the worse your own immune system becomes and you become more likely to get the virus is how I see it at the moment.

Based on?
common sense , something sadly lacking in most people these days .

Ah ok, I thought there might have been some scientific or medical basis for your declaration.
it was science to ban djokovic from us open last week this week it's not keep up with the science j70 and get your booster .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2022, 01:00:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 09:36:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 15, 2022, 08:36:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 07:24:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 15, 2022, 07:14:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 07:10:08 PM
The more shots you get the worse your own immune system becomes and you become more likely to get the virus is how I see it at the moment.

Based on?
common sense , something sadly lacking in most people these days .

Ah ok, I thought there might have been some scientific or medical basis for your declaration.
it was science to ban djokovic from us open last week this week it's not keep up with the science j70 and get your booster .

Yeah I'll get my booster. I've a sibling who is an infectious diseases doctor to advise me. I'll listen to them and medical and public health professionals. People who have a bit of hard won knowledge and expertise to bring to the table.

You go right ahead and mock and rely on your "common sense" and right wing political hacks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on August 16, 2022, 02:06:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 01:00:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 09:36:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 15, 2022, 08:36:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 07:24:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 15, 2022, 07:14:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 07:10:08 PM
The more shots you get the worse your own immune system becomes and you become more likely to get the virus is how I see it at the moment.

Based on?
common sense , something sadly lacking in most people these days .

Ah ok, I thought there might have been some scientific or medical basis for your declaration.
it was science to ban djokovic from us open last week this week it's not keep up with the science j70 and get your booster .

Yeah I'll get my booster. I've a sibling who is an infectious diseases doctor to advise me. I'll listen to them and medical and public health professionals. People who have a bit of hard won knowledge and expertise to bring to the table.

You go right ahead and mock and rely on your "common sense" and right wing political hacks.

You're a very patient man, J70.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on August 16, 2022, 03:34:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 01:00:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 09:36:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 15, 2022, 08:36:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 07:24:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 15, 2022, 07:14:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 07:10:08 PM
The more shots you get the worse your own immune system becomes and you become more likely to get the virus is how I see it at the moment.

Based on?
common sense , something sadly lacking in most people these days .

Ah ok, I thought there might have been some scientific or medical basis for your declaration.
it was science to ban djokovic from us open last week this week it's not keep up with the science j70 and get your booster .

Yeah I'll get my booster. I've a sibling who is an infectious diseases doctor to advise me. I'll listen to them and medical and public health professionals. People who have a bit of hard won knowledge and expertise to bring to the table.

You go right ahead and mock and rely on your "common sense" and right wing political hacks.
experts  who said take the vaccine and you are good no chance of infection or you can't transmit the virus to others  ?
Or when they said take a booster and you're good , or take 2 boosters and you're good ?
no politics involved from me here it's my own opinion but I do remember joe and Kamala publicly
stating they wouldn't take any vaccines that had anything got to do with the trump administration.
I've my opinion you have yours .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 08:49:11 AM
Lately there has been a few highlighted sudden deaths on young people recently, the comments coming out on social media by some dafties has been really insensitive and pure lunacy..

Blaming the vaccine and booster on increased suicides in young people!! Is this a common thing opinion coming from anti vaxers?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 16, 2022, 10:03:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 08:49:11 AM
Lately there has been a few highlighted sudden deaths on young people recently, the comments coming out on social media by some dafties has been really insensitive and pure lunacy..

Blaming the vaccine and booster on increased suicides in young people!! Is this a common thing opinion coming from anti vaxers?

That's pure rubbish. Lockdowns and mass hysteria were the real causes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 10:16:49 AM
Quote from: clarshack on August 16, 2022, 10:14:13 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 08:49:11 AM
Lately there has been a few highlighted sudden deaths on young people recently, the comments coming out on social media by some dafties has been really insensitive and pure lunacy..

Blaming the vaccine and booster on increased suicides in young people!! Is this a common thing opinion coming from anti vaxers?

It seems to be. Suicides have always been reported as 'sudden deaths' but now anytime there's a sudden death reported on social media it's the usual people immediately blaming the vaccine/booster without knowing all the facts of what happened that particular person. Going forward the media should probably report suicides slightly differently so there's no doubt as to what has actually happened.

Anyway I'll be taking the new updated booster, it produces an eightfold increase in antibody levels therefore it looks like it will be a once a year thing just like the flu jab.

The article did have as a footnote mental health awareness links
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on August 16, 2022, 10:21:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 08:49:11 AM
Lately there has been a few highlighted sudden deaths on young people recently, the comments coming out on social media by some dafties has been really insensitive and pure lunacy..

Blaming the vaccine and booster on increased suicides in young people!! Is this a common thing opinion coming from anti vaxers?

There is always some 'dafties' on both sides of any argument particularly this one. 
          Co-incidentally when you use the term anti-vaxers, is that

A. Those people that are totally anti vaccine of any kind
B.  Those that are anti-covid 19 vaccine(no matter what manufacturer) but have no problem with other non covid 19 vaccines.
C. Or those that think that the covid 19 vaccine is a useful tool for a certain section of population but have concerns with the testing/licensing/rollout/mandatory use of the vaccine.
D. All of the above
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: clarshack on August 16, 2022, 10:36:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 10:16:49 AM
Quote from: clarshack on August 16, 2022, 10:14:13 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 08:49:11 AM
Lately there has been a few highlighted sudden deaths on young people recently, the comments coming out on social media by some dafties has been really insensitive and pure lunacy..

Blaming the vaccine and booster on increased suicides in young people!! Is this a common thing opinion coming from anti vaxers?

It seems to be. Suicides have always been reported as 'sudden deaths' but now anytime there's a sudden death reported on social media it's the usual people immediately blaming the vaccine/booster without knowing all the facts of what happened that particular person. Going forward the media should probably report suicides slightly differently so there's no doubt as to what has actually happened.

Anyway I'll be taking the new updated booster, it produces an eightfold increase in antibody levels therefore it looks like it will be a once a year thing just like the flu jab.

The article did have as a footnote mental health awareness links

That should be enough to differentiate you would think.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2022, 10:41:05 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 16, 2022, 03:34:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 01:00:50 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 09:36:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 15, 2022, 08:36:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 07:24:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 15, 2022, 07:14:33 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 15, 2022, 07:10:08 PM
The more shots you get the worse your own immune system becomes and you become more likely to get the virus is how I see it at the moment.

Based on?
common sense , something sadly lacking in most people these days .

Ah ok, I thought there might have been some scientific or medical basis for your declaration.
it was science to ban djokovic from us open last week this week it's not keep up with the science j70 and get your booster .

Yeah I'll get my booster. I've a sibling who is an infectious diseases doctor to advise me. I'll listen to them and medical and public health professionals. People who have a bit of hard won knowledge and expertise to bring to the table.

You go right ahead and mock and rely on your "common sense" and right wing political hacks.
experts  who said take the vaccine and you are good no chance of infection or you can't transmit the virus to others  ?
Or when they said take a booster and you're good , or take 2 boosters and you're good ?
no politics involved from me here it's my own opinion but I do remember joe and Kamala publicly
stating they wouldn't take any vaccines that had anything got to do with the trump administration.
I've my opinion you have yours .

Science is always about what you know at the time. Things change as more data is collected, and so the science and the medicine has to follow the data, especially with an evolving virus. And that's the point - it is open to correction when warranted and accumulating data fills out the picture.

Whereas your "common sense", "non-political" opinion is based on...?

And as usual you can't get your facts straight when it comes to politics.

Biden and Harris said they wanted independent scientific review of the vaccines. Why? Because at the time Trump had politicized the f**k out of the vaccines too, openly pushing for them to be rushed out because he openly figured it would boost his chances of re-election.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 16, 2022, 10:48:31 AM
Quote from: clarshack on August 16, 2022, 10:14:13 AM

Anyway I'll be taking the new updated booster, it produces an eightfold increase in antibody levels therefore it looks like it will be a once a year thing just like the flu jab.

I don't understand this. What age are you? What are you afraid of? Previous vaccines have been over-rated/over-stated as to immunity. Do you really believe them this time as to its efficiency? Do you really want a substance put into your system that creates an eightfold increase in Antibody levels? Does something as artificial as that seem strange for a disease that you have a 99%+ chance of surviving.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 16, 2022, 11:13:16 AM
If you want to get the booster get it, if you don't that's fine also. It's a personal choice that no-one should be penalised for.
Thankfully we now have plenty of data to review so we can make informed decisions. It's inconceivable to me at least that we would react in the same way against a similar threat in the future. Hopefully lessons have been learned.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 16, 2022, 12:18:49 PM
Sorry to hear you had a tough time with it but I urge to figure out what else you can do to make you less susceptible in future. Sounds like it's a no brainer for you in terms of a booster but if it was me I'd still spread my bets.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 16, 2022, 12:32:40 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 16, 2022, 12:18:49 PM
Sorry to hear you had a tough time with it but I urge to figure out what else you can do to make you less susceptible in future. Sounds like it's a no brainer for you in terms of a booster but if it was me I'd still spread my bets.

No doubt he should also look at other precautions, but in addition to the booster which is no brainer.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 12:58:43 PM
Had the virus a while ago nothing to report didn't even know I had it...

Is that down to the vaccine
Being fit
Or just a poor reduced strain?

Who knows.. but that stuff on social media implying that vaccines were causing sudden deaths is just wrong
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 16, 2022, 02:17:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 12:58:43 PM
Had the virus a while ago nothing to report didn't even know I had it...

Is that down to the vaccine
Being fit
Or just a poor reduced strain?

Who knows.. but that stuff on social media implying that vaccines were causing sudden deaths is just wrong
It's no one thing but in terms of risk reduction there is little point in forcing vaccines on young people for minimal benefit and even a possible chance of harm. My kids are over 18 and can make up their own minds but if they were still U18 I don't think based even on the strangely limited number of studies I could live with myself to force it on them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 03:23:14 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 16, 2022, 02:17:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 12:58:43 PM
Had the virus a while ago nothing to report didn't even know I had it...

Is that down to the vaccine
Being fit
Or just a poor reduced strain?

Who knows.. but that stuff on social media implying that vaccines were causing sudden deaths is just wrong
It's no one thing but in terms of risk reduction there is little point in forcing vaccines on young people for minimal benefit and even a possible chance of harm. My kids are over 18 and can make up their own minds but if they were still U18 I don't think based even on the strangely limited number of studies I could live with myself to force it on them.

I agree, its up to them and if they are adults then that's their choice, those deaths I mention they were adults with mental health issues, not as a result of covid vaccines but social media has thrown up these questions
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 16, 2022, 03:43:09 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 16, 2022, 10:48:31 AMI don't understand this. What age are you? What are you afraid of? Previous vaccines have been over-rated/over-stated as to immunity. Do you really believe them this time as to its efficiency? Do you really want a substance put into your system that creates an eightfold increase in Antibody levels? Does something as artificial as that seem strange for a disease that you have a 99%+ chance of surviving.

why do you care so much? 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2022, 03:50:16 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 16, 2022, 11:13:16 AM
If you want to get the booster get it, if you don't that's fine also. It's a personal choice that no-one should be penalised for.
Thankfully we now have plenty of data to review so we can make informed decisions. It's inconceivable to me at least that we would react in the same way against a similar threat in the future. Hopefully lessons have been learned.

Even if we find ourselves where we were in March/April 2020?

Novel virus, about which we know little in terms of transmission, except that it is highly contagious; hospitals and their staff overwhelmed to breaking point; people dying; little known in terms of how to treat, never mind cure it; no vaccine; massive PPE shortages?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 16, 2022, 04:24:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 03:23:14 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 16, 2022, 02:17:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 12:58:43 PM
Had the virus a while ago nothing to report didn't even know I had it...

Is that down to the vaccine
Being fit
Or just a poor reduced strain?

Who knows.. but that stuff on social media implying that vaccines were causing sudden deaths is just wrong
It's no one thing but in terms of risk reduction there is little point in forcing vaccines on young people for minimal benefit and even a possible chance of harm. My kids are over 18 and can make up their own minds but if they were still U18 I don't think based even on the strangely limited number of studies I could live with myself to force it on them.

I agree, its up to them and if they are adults then that's their choice, those deaths I mention they were adults with mental health issues, not as a result of covid vaccines but social media has thrown up these questions.


Ok think I might be off topic. Kicking myself for getting back into this conversation lol.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Barnster on August 16, 2022, 04:29:13 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 16, 2022, 03:43:09 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 16, 2022, 10:48:31 AMI don't understand this. What age are you? What are you afraid of? Previous vaccines have been over-rated/over-stated as to immunity. Do you really believe them this time as to its efficiency? Do you really want a substance put into your system that creates an eightfold increase in Antibody levels? Does something as artificial as that seem strange for a disease that you have a 99%+ chance of surviving.

why do you care so much?

Why do you care that he cares?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Barnster on August 16, 2022, 04:37:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 03:50:16 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 16, 2022, 11:13:16 AM
If you want to get the booster get it, if you don't that's fine also. It's a personal choice that no-one should be penalised for.
Thankfully we now have plenty of data to review so we can make informed decisions. It's inconceivable to me at least that we would react in the same way against a similar threat in the future. Hopefully lessons have been learned.

Even if we find ourselves where we were in March/April 2020?

Novel virus, about which we know little in terms of transmission, except that it is highly contagious; hospitals and their staff overwhelmed to breaking point; people dying; little known in terms of how to treat, never mind cure it; no vaccine; massive PPE shortages?

A lot more folks lives were destroyed because of the draconian measures taken, governments lost the run of themselves.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on August 16, 2022, 04:41:27 PM
Quote from: Barnster on August 16, 2022, 04:37:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 03:50:16 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 16, 2022, 11:13:16 AM
If you want to get the booster get it, if you don't that's fine also. It's a personal choice that no-one should be penalised for.
Thankfully we now have plenty of data to review so we can make informed decisions. It's inconceivable to me at least that we would react in the same way against a similar threat in the future. Hopefully lessons have been learned.

Even if we find ourselves where we were in March/April 2020?

Novel virus, about which we know little in terms of transmission, except that it is highly contagious; hospitals and their staff overwhelmed to breaking point; people dying; little known in terms of how to treat, never mind cure it; no vaccine; massive PPE shortages?

A lot more folks lives were destroyed because of the draconian measures taken, governments lost the run of themselves.

what does that actually mean  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2022, 04:47:41 PM
Quote from: Barnster on August 16, 2022, 04:37:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 03:50:16 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 16, 2022, 11:13:16 AM
If you want to get the booster get it, if you don't that's fine also. It's a personal choice that no-one should be penalised for.
Thankfully we now have plenty of data to review so we can make informed decisions. It's inconceivable to me at least that we would react in the same way against a similar threat in the future. Hopefully lessons have been learned.

Even if we find ourselves where we were in March/April 2020?

Novel virus, about which we know little in terms of transmission, except that it is highly contagious; hospitals and their staff overwhelmed to breaking point; people dying; little known in terms of how to treat, never mind cure it; no vaccine; massive PPE shortages?

A lot more folks lives were destroyed because of the draconian measures taken, governments lost the run of themselves.

Assuming, purely for the sake of argument, that what you say is true, how should it have been handled?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Barnster on August 16, 2022, 04:49:23 PM
They bowed to scaremongering from everyone with a medical background peddling their crap on every TV and Radio station in the land, mainstream media fanning the flames of an apocalyptic world unless we were all locked up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Barnster on August 16, 2022, 04:51:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 04:47:41 PM
Quote from: Barnster on August 16, 2022, 04:37:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 03:50:16 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 16, 2022, 11:13:16 AM
If you want to get the booster get it, if you don't that's fine also. It's a personal choice that no-one should be penalised for.
Thankfully we now have plenty of data to review so we can make informed decisions. It's inconceivable to me at least that we would react in the same way against a similar threat in the future. Hopefully lessons have been learned.

Even if we find ourselves where we were in March/April 2020?

Novel virus, about which we know little in terms of transmission, except that it is highly contagious; hospitals and their staff overwhelmed to breaking point; people dying; little known in terms of how to treat, never mind cure it; no vaccine; massive PPE shortages?

A lot more folks lives were destroyed because of the draconian measures taken, governments lost the run of themselves.

Assuming, purely for the sake of argument, that what you say is true, how should it have been handled?

There is an inquiry in UK to answer that https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk
UK Covid-19 Public Inquiry (https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2022, 04:57:52 PM
Quote from: Barnster on August 16, 2022, 04:51:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 04:47:41 PM
Quote from: Barnster on August 16, 2022, 04:37:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 03:50:16 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 16, 2022, 11:13:16 AM
If you want to get the booster get it, if you don't that's fine also. It's a personal choice that no-one should be penalised for.
Thankfully we now have plenty of data to review so we can make informed decisions. It's inconceivable to me at least that we would react in the same way against a similar threat in the future. Hopefully lessons have been learned.

Even if we find ourselves where we were in March/April 2020?

Novel virus, about which we know little in terms of transmission, except that it is highly contagious; hospitals and their staff overwhelmed to breaking point; people dying; little known in terms of how to treat, never mind cure it; no vaccine; massive PPE shortages?

A lot more folks lives were destroyed because of the draconian measures taken, governments lost the run of themselves.

Assuming, purely for the sake of argument, that what you say is true, how should it have been handled?

There is an inquiry in UK to answer that https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk
UK Covid-19 Public Inquiry (https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk

That's a (messed up) link to an inquiry which is just getting up and running. I'm assuming they're keeping an open mind and will conduct a professional and informed investigation and make appropriate recommendations.

Given your virulent claims however, I assumed you yourself had some ideas about how things should have been handled given the state of affairs at the time?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 16, 2022, 05:14:22 PM
Quote from: Barnster on August 16, 2022, 04:29:13 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 16, 2022, 03:43:09 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 16, 2022, 10:48:31 AMI don't understand this. What age are you? What are you afraid of? Previous vaccines have been over-rated/over-stated as to immunity. Do you really believe them this time as to its efficiency? Do you really want a substance put into your system that creates an eightfold increase in Antibody levels? Does something as artificial as that seem strange for a disease that you have a 99%+ chance of surviving.

why do you care so much?

Why do you care that he cares?

Welcome back Angelo

(https://c.tenor.com/uWC8vbKBT5UAAAAC/clown-mask.gif)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Barnster on August 16, 2022, 05:33:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 04:57:52 PM
Quote from: Barnster on August 16, 2022, 04:51:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 04:47:41 PM
Quote from: Barnster on August 16, 2022, 04:37:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 03:50:16 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 16, 2022, 11:13:16 AM
If you want to get the booster get it, if you don't that's fine also. It's a personal choice that no-one should be penalised for.
Thankfully we now have plenty of data to review so we can make informed decisions. It's inconceivable to me at least that we would react in the same way against a similar threat in the future. Hopefully lessons have been learned.

Even if we find ourselves where we were in March/April 2020?

Novel virus, about which we know little in terms of transmission, except that it is highly contagious; hospitals and their staff overwhelmed to breaking point; people dying; little known in terms of how to treat, never mind cure it; no vaccine; massive PPE shortages?

A lot more folks lives were destroyed because of the draconian measures taken, governments lost the run of themselves.

Assuming, purely for the sake of argument, that what you say is true, how should it have been handled?

There is an inquiry in UK to answer that https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk
UK Covid-19 Public Inquiry (https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk

That's a (messed up) link to an inquiry which is just getting up and running. I'm assuming they're keeping an open mind and will conduct a professional and informed investigation and make appropriate recommendations.

Given your virulent claims however, I assumed you yourself had some ideas about how things should have been handled given the state of affairs at the time?

I'm beginning to see how this works, do you think it was all handled correctly given the state of affairs at the time?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2022, 05:48:34 PM
Quote from: Barnster on August 16, 2022, 05:33:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 04:57:52 PM
Quote from: Barnster on August 16, 2022, 04:51:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 04:47:41 PM
Quote from: Barnster on August 16, 2022, 04:37:10 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 16, 2022, 03:50:16 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 16, 2022, 11:13:16 AM
If you want to get the booster get it, if you don't that's fine also. It's a personal choice that no-one should be penalised for.
Thankfully we now have plenty of data to review so we can make informed decisions. It's inconceivable to me at least that we would react in the same way against a similar threat in the future. Hopefully lessons have been learned.

Even if we find ourselves where we were in March/April 2020?

Novel virus, about which we know little in terms of transmission, except that it is highly contagious; hospitals and their staff overwhelmed to breaking point; people dying; little known in terms of how to treat, never mind cure it; no vaccine; massive PPE shortages?

A lot more folks lives were destroyed because of the draconian measures taken, governments lost the run of themselves.

Assuming, purely for the sake of argument, that what you say is true, how should it have been handled?

There is an inquiry in UK to answer that https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk
UK Covid-19 Public Inquiry (https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk

That's a (messed up) link to an inquiry which is just getting up and running. I'm assuming they're keeping an open mind and will conduct a professional and informed investigation and make appropriate recommendations.

Given your virulent claims however, I assumed you yourself had some ideas about how things should have been handled given the state of affairs at the time?

I'm beginning to see how this works, do you think it was all handled correctly given the state of affairs at the time?

Beginning to see how what works? That someone who makes wild assertions should be asked to support them?

As for my opinion, yes, I do think the conservative approach was appropriate at the time. There was no playbook, partly due to lack of proper preparation for a pandemic, partly due to the novelty of the virus and the absence of knowledge about how it spread and how it could be treated. The resulting chaos in the health sector meant that a "let it rip" approach would have been wildly irresponsible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on August 16, 2022, 06:01:57 PM
First and foremost where and how the virus came about has never been addressed properly, is it man made and where did it come from ? Stuff that's common knowledge now was seen as blasphemy on here and would get you banned on social media for stating it 6 months ago .It's amazing if you look at the mandatory vaccine pages how "normal people " on here wanted to shun people from society for not wanting to take what is at the most a therapeutic with limited efficacy and some side effects, but same guys still want to shout you down . Not happening
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 16, 2022, 06:10:02 PM
I agree that the origin of the virus is important to establish.

Nature did a good summary back in March. Not sure if much progress has been made since. It does refer to a recent study of viruses in game animals in China - although they didn't detect the Covid virus, they did detect 21 others which were dangerous to humans. Which is obviously very problematic with these live wild animal markets.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00732-0 (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00732-0)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 17, 2022, 12:16:34 AM
If you were not part of the cohort who did not get vaccinated, you were treated socially like a Jew in 1930's Germany. The world around you were doing the same old things, but the non-compliant were discreetly exorcised from society. Every moment became an awkward moment or a non event - going to the Cinema, going to wakes, going to the Pub. 

Anyone who took the Jab were oblivious in the main to this. The Jab became a badge of honour and people talked of the freedom they felt and seen it as patriotic.

Ireland lost the run of itself, but at least we did not get the complete Bullshit people had to endure in Austria, Australia, New Zealand and Canada. F**k me, they ran some sh1tshow.

So many governments in the world had their heads in the Trough of mass hysteria, that none of them could come back now and say it was all a mistake. Most are letting it fade away and not really doing any analysis of it anymore.

They know the figures were greatly exaggerated. Extra Nurses and Doctors that were asked to return to fight the fight, were told to go back later on the next flight.

Climate change, the War on Ukraine, The imminent recession, the LGBT+ stuff have all taken the limelight away from the Big Scam. What ever RTE department Geroge Lee has moved to will be a good indicator of where the next narrative will go.

Anyway that part is all in the past for the moment. The unvaccinated have become a confused entity to the righteous. Things have become sporadic in relation to vaccination. Less and less are getting the Jab or the booster. Some because they realise it's not really worth a shite. Some because they don't fear Covid anymore. Some because they don't have the time. Some because they have heard whispers. Some because they realise they were taken for a ride.

With such sporadic jabs you'd wonder how does herd immunity from the vaccine work these days?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 17, 2022, 12:58:30 AM
Quotethe complete Bullshit people had to endure in Austria, Australia, New Zealand and Canada

I'd love to hear this now  ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 17, 2022, 08:00:31 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 16, 2022, 05:14:22 PM
Quote from: Barnster on August 16, 2022, 04:29:13 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 16, 2022, 03:43:09 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 16, 2022, 10:48:31 AMI don't understand this. What age are you? What are you afraid of? Previous vaccines have been over-rated/over-stated as to immunity. Do you really believe them this time as to its efficiency? Do you really want a substance put into your system that creates an eightfold increase in Antibody levels? Does something as artificial as that seem strange for a disease that you have a 99%+ chance of surviving.

why do you care so much?

Why do you care that he cares?

Welcome back Angelo

(https://c.tenor.com/uWC8vbKBT5UAAAAC/clown-mask.gif)

Was thinking that. And so it begins again  :o
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 17, 2022, 08:05:43 AM
The debate always descends to this. Back to our trenches self righteously none the wiser. 🥱
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 17, 2022, 08:32:31 AM
It is pointless.

Lockdowns were stupid, vaccines are dubious - no they're not.

Repeat ad infinitum.

Anybody who has a view 3 years in is not going to change it now and it has descended well below debate.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AustinPowers on August 17, 2022, 11:39:57 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 17, 2022, 12:16:34 AM
If you were not part of the cohort who did not get vaccinated, you were treated socially like a Jew in 1930's Germany. The world around you were doing the same old things, but the non-compliant were discreetly exorcised from society. Every moment became an awkward moment or a non event - going to the Cinema, going to wakes, going to the Pub. 

Anyone who took the Jab were oblivious in the main to this. The Jab became a badge of honour and people talked of the freedom they felt and seen it as patriotic.

Ireland lost the run of itself, but at least we did not get the complete Bullshit people had to endure in Austria, Australia, New Zealand and Canada. F**k me, they ran some sh1tshow.

So many governments in the world had their heads in the Trough of mass hysteria, that none of them could come back now and say it was all a mistake. Most are letting it fade away and not really doing any analysis of it anymore.

They know the figures were greatly exaggerated. Extra Nurses and Doctors that were asked to return to fight the fight, were told to go back later on the next flight.

Climate change, the War on Ukraine, The imminent recession, the LGBT+ stuff have all taken the limelight away from the Big Scam. What ever RTE department Geroge Lee has moved to will be a good indicator of where the next narrative will go.

Anyway that part is all in the past for the moment. The unvaccinated have become a confused entity to the righteous. Things have become sporadic in relation to vaccination. Less and less are getting the Jab or the booster. Some because they realise it's not really worth a shite. Some because they don't fear Covid anymore. Some because they don't have the time. Some because they have heard whispers. Some because they realise they were taken for a ride.

With such sporadic jabs you'd wonder how does herd immunity from the vaccine work these days?

100% agree with everything you just said .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: marty34 on August 17, 2022, 11:48:49 AM
I'd say this inflation/recession is as bad for businesses as Covid was.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on August 17, 2022, 12:46:39 PM
I'm not getting into any chat with folk on here re Covid but it's staggering what people will believe. I spoke with a husband and wife for Co Derry recently who urged me to do my research into QAnon. I initially thought they were taking the hand. Mind blowing. Cannot be healthy down in that rabbit hole 24/7
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: TabClear on August 17, 2022, 01:11:32 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on August 17, 2022, 12:46:39 PM
I'm not getting into any chat with folk on here re Covid but it's staggering what people will believe. I spoke with a husband and wife for Co Derry recently who urged me to do my research into QAnon. I initially thought they were taking the hand. Mind blowing. Cannot be healthy down in that rabbit hole 24/7

I had to go and google "Finland doesnt exist" from the chart above....... Jesus wept! ::)

https://theculturetrip.com/europe/finland/articles/does-finland-exist-many-dont-think-so/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on August 17, 2022, 02:03:51 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 17, 2022, 12:16:34 AM
If you were not part of the cohort who did not get vaccinated, you were treated socially like a Jew in 1930's Germany. The world around you were doing the same old things, but the non-compliant were discreetly exorcised from society. Every moment became an awkward moment or a non event - going to the Cinema, going to wakes, going to the Pub. 

Anyone who took the Jab were oblivious in the main to this. The Jab became a badge of honour and people talked of the freedom they felt and seen it as patriotic.

Ireland lost the run of itself, but at least we did not get the complete Bullshit people had to endure in Austria, Australia, New Zealand and Canada. F**k me, they ran some sh1tshow.

So many governments in the world had their heads in the Trough of mass hysteria, that none of them could come back now and say it was all a mistake. Most are letting it fade away and not really doing any analysis of it anymore.

They know the figures were greatly exaggerated. Extra Nurses and Doctors that were asked to return to fight the fight, were told to go back later on the next flight.

Climate change, the War on Ukraine, The imminent recession, the LGBT+ stuff have all taken the limelight away from the Big Scam. What ever RTE department Geroge Lee has moved to will be a good indicator of where the next narrative will go.

Anyway that part is all in the past for the moment. The unvaccinated have become a confused entity to the righteous. Things have become sporadic in relation to vaccination. Less and less are getting the Jab or the booster. Some because they realise it's not really worth a shite. Some because they don't fear Covid anymore. Some because they don't have the time. Some because they have heard whispers. Some because they realise they were taken for a ride.

With such sporadic jabs you'd wonder how does herd immunity from the vaccine work these days?

Funny but not funny ha ha, funny weird.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 17, 2022, 03:27:16 PM
Usual bonkers shite.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on August 17, 2022, 03:28:58 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 17, 2022, 12:16:34 AM
If you were not part of the cohort who did not get vaccinated, you were treated socially like a Jew in 1930's Germany.

I presume this is a piss take? If not lay down in darkened room.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on August 17, 2022, 03:42:24 PM
Toronto Star front page from a year ago

https://twitter.com/turtology/status/1430978243079847939?s=20&t=tlRSxAyt24TcSWUGJWWS7w (https://twitter.com/turtology/status/1430978243079847939?s=20&t=tlRSxAyt24TcSWUGJWWS7w)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 17, 2022, 04:40:52 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 17, 2022, 03:28:58 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 17, 2022, 12:16:34 AM
If you were not part of the cohort who did not get vaccinated, you were treated socially like a Jew in 1930's Germany.

I presume this is a piss take? If not lay down in darkened room.

You don't think so? My wife was refused entry to an after burial reception in a Hotel for her cousin who died in her mid 40. We we put under huge pressure for my mother in laws 80th birthday which my wife arranged. I walked by pubs/restaurants/cafes for months. Cinema's did not exist for myself or my children. Sport Ireland threatened and denied my kids from playing competitive Basketball games. No foreign holidays. We could stay in a Hotel, but not eat breakfast there. We could drink at a wedding in the main hall, but not in the public bar or foyer. Every public movement required thought.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Keyser soze on August 17, 2022, 04:46:59 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 17, 2022, 04:40:52 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 17, 2022, 03:28:58 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 17, 2022, 12:16:34 AM
If you were not part of the cohort who did not get vaccinated, you were treated socially like a Jew in 1930's Germany.

I presume this is a piss take? If not lay down in darkened room.

You don't think so? My wife was refused entry to an after burial reception in a Hotel for her cousin who died in her mid 40. We we put under huge pressure for my mother in laws 80th birthday which my wife arranged. I walked by pubs/restaurants/cafes for months. Cinema's did not exist for myself or my children. Sport Ireland threatened and denied my kids from playing competitive Basketball games. No foreign holidays. We could stay in a Hotel, but not eat breakfast there. We could drink at a wedding in the main hall, but not in the public bar or foyer. Every public movement required thought.

Well that's a relief, for a moment there I thought you'd been rounded up and shipped off to a concentration camp.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Captain Obvious on August 17, 2022, 05:05:56 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 17, 2022, 04:40:52 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 17, 2022, 03:28:58 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 17, 2022, 12:16:34 AM
If you were not part of the cohort who did not get vaccinated, you were treated socially like a Jew in 1930's Germany.

I presume this is a piss take? If not lay down in darkened room.

You don't think so? My wife was refused entry to an after burial reception in a Hotel for her cousin who died in her mid 40. We we put under huge pressure for my mother in laws 80th birthday which my wife arranged. I walked by pubs/restaurants/cafes for months. Cinema's did not exist for myself or my children. Sport Ireland threatened and denied my kids from playing competitive Basketball games. No foreign holidays. We could stay in a Hotel, but not eat breakfast there. We could drink at a wedding in the main hall, but not in the public bar or foyer. Every public movement required thought.

Take a tour of Auschwitz some day to see how stupid of comparison that is and downright insulting to Jewish that suffered.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 17, 2022, 05:11:54 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 17, 2022, 05:05:56 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 17, 2022, 04:40:52 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 17, 2022, 03:28:58 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 17, 2022, 12:16:34 AM
If you were not part of the cohort who did not get vaccinated, you were treated socially like a Jew in 1930's Germany.

I presume this is a piss take? If not lay down in darkened room.

You don't think so? My wife was refused entry to an after burial reception in a Hotel for her cousin who died in her mid 40. We we put under huge pressure for my mother in laws 80th birthday which my wife arranged. I walked by pubs/restaurants/cafes for months. Cinema's did not exist for myself or my children. Sport Ireland threatened and denied my kids from playing competitive Basketball games. No foreign holidays. We could stay in a Hotel, but not eat breakfast there. We could drink at a wedding in the main hall, but not in the public bar or foyer. Every public movement required thought.

Take a tour of Auschwitz some day to see how stupid of comparison that is and downright insulting to Jewish that suffered.

Auschwitz was built in 1940!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 17, 2022, 05:16:43 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 17, 2022, 03:42:24 PM
Toronto Star front page from a year ago

https://twitter.com/turtology/status/1430978243079847939?s=20&t=tlRSxAyt24TcSWUGJWWS7w (https://twitter.com/turtology/status/1430978243079847939?s=20&t=tlRSxAyt24TcSWUGJWWS7w)

and?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on August 17, 2022, 05:46:38 PM
Similar to the jewish community in the 1930s.... I repeat... the 1930s

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/1933-1939-early-stages-of-persecution/ (https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/1933-1939-early-stages-of-persecution/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 17, 2022, 05:52:51 PM
So are childhood vaccine mandates equivalent to Nazi Germany anti-Jewish policies?

Is it morally reprehensible to demand that kids be vaccinated against measles and polio and so on before a school will accept them?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 17, 2022, 06:16:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 17, 2022, 05:52:51 PM
So are childhood vaccine mandates equivalent to Nazi Germany anti-Jewish policies?

Is it morally reprehensible to demand that kids be vaccinated against measles and polio and so on before a school will accept them?

This comparison with Jews in the 1930s is offensive to people that were really persecuted. If you didn't wear any clothes then you would not be allowed in a hotel, this does not mean that you are persecuted it just means that you need to put on some clothes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on August 17, 2022, 07:15:56 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 17, 2022, 03:42:24 PM
Toronto Star front page from a year ago

https://twitter.com/turtology/status/1430978243079847939?s=20&t=tlRSxAyt24TcSWUGJWWS7w (https://twitter.com/turtology/status/1430978243079847939?s=20&t=tlRSxAyt24TcSWUGJWWS7w)

Wasn't it both fascinating and terrifying to witness. A real study of the human condition.
          Just scroll back through some of the posts on this topic! Some well informed posters were advocating that those not Covid 19 vaccinated should;
       be refused medical treatment, loose their jobs, be prevented  from attending schools or universities, be isolated from the rest of society and be fined and/or imprisoned.
       We had quite a few distasteful almost gleeful posts about people who had refused to take the vaccine but had succumbed to the disease directly or from complications arising from infection. 
        I suppose i shouldn't have been surprised, on an anonymous online forum, at the level of vitriol directed at any dissenters.
       However, it was incredible to see how quickly a minority grouping could be vilified by the media and blamed for the spread of the virus and how quickly that filtered down through all levels of society
       It went from everyone clapping for NHS workers to outcries for them to lose their jobs if they didn't get vaccinated. All in the space of a few months.
       

       
   


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 17, 2022, 09:31:12 PM
Quote from: grounded on August 17, 2022, 07:15:56 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 17, 2022, 03:42:24 PM
Toronto Star front page from a year ago

https://twitter.com/turtology/status/1430978243079847939?s=20&t=tlRSxAyt24TcSWUGJWWS7w (https://twitter.com/turtology/status/1430978243079847939?s=20&t=tlRSxAyt24TcSWUGJWWS7w)

Wasn't it both fascinating and terrifying to witness. A real study of the human condition.
          Just scroll back through some of the posts on this topic! Some well informed posters were advocating that those not Covid 19 vaccinated should;
       be refused medical treatment, loose their jobs, be prevented  from attending schools or universities, be isolated from the rest of society and be fined and/or imprisoned.
       We had quite a few distasteful almost gleeful posts about people who had refused to take the vaccine but had succumbed to the disease directly or from complications arising from infection. 
        I suppose i shouldn't have been surprised, on an anonymous online forum, at the level of vitriol directed at any dissenters.
       However, it was incredible to see how quickly a minority grouping could be vilified by the media and blamed for the spread of the virus and how quickly that filtered down through all levels of society
       It went from everyone clapping for NHS workers to outcries for them to lose their jobs if they didn't get vaccinated. All in the space of a few months.
       

       
   

Superb post
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 17, 2022, 09:52:58 PM
Quote from: grounded on August 17, 2022, 07:15:56 PM
It went from everyone clapping for NHS workers to outcries for them to lose their jobs if they didn't get vaccinated. All in the space of a few months.
 

Both make sense, you thank people for doing their job properly while not having toleration for those who do not. Perhaps you would rather this happened to teachers.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on August 17, 2022, 10:55:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 17, 2022, 09:52:58 PM
Quote from: grounded on August 17, 2022, 07:15:56 PM
It went from everyone clapping for NHS workers to outcries for them to lose their jobs if they didn't get vaccinated. All in the space of a few months.
 

Both make sense, you thank people for doing their job properly while not having toleration for those who do not. Perhaps you would rather this happened to teachers.


In what sense were those un c19 vaccinated health care workers not doing their job properly?

I'm not sure what the ref is regarding teachers? (I'm not a teacher) but i thought for the most part they did/do a superb job under very trying conditions.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 17, 2022, 11:08:30 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on August 17, 2022, 12:17:05 PM
I'm just gonna leave this here...

(https://i.postimg.cc/d0CJ1kst/Er5-BHY5-Vk-AEfi-Mv-jpg-large.jpg)

Where does the Toronto Star front page fit into your upside down Pyramid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 18, 2022, 12:40:42 AM
 ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on August 18, 2022, 01:11:36 AM
Public Health Infighting | Cancelling Leana Wen Over Small Disagreements
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPcx6e9lhag&t=140s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPcx6e9lhag&t=140s)

Someone who in the early stages believe in full lockdowns and school closure who now has changed her mind believing that we now need to live with Covid19. Public health campaigners want her cancelled for now holding a different opinion. Not normal people  :-\
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 18, 2022, 01:54:25 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 18, 2022, 01:11:36 AMNot normal people  :-\

as opposed to the people comparing the last couple of years to how the Jews were treated by nazis
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on August 18, 2022, 07:55:27 AM
A lot of people think this is a mild virus and they got over it no problem but...

Millions of people who have had Covid-19 still face a higher risk of neurological and psychiatric conditions, including brain fog, dementia and psychosis, two years after their illness, compared with those who have had other respiratory infections, according to the single largest study of its kind.

They also face an increased risk of anxiety and depression, the research suggests, but this subsides within two months of having Covid-19. The findings are published in the Lancet Psychiatry journal.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 08:45:24 AM
Quote from: lenny on August 18, 2022, 07:55:27 AM
A lot of people think this is a mild virus and they got over it no problem but...

Millions of people who have had Covid-19 still face a higher risk of neurological and psychiatric conditions, including brain fog, dementia and psychosis, two years after their illness, compared with those who have had other respiratory infections, according to the single largest study of its kind.

They also face an increased risk of anxiety and depression, the research suggests, but this subsides within two months of having Covid-19. The findings are published in the Lancet Psychiatry journal.

Work colleague of mine, some underlying conditions has been off for that last 2 weeks with covid, he's not hospitalised but did need to go to A&E.

He's not in he's no wages, so this isnt a handy wee staying off. Some people are getting it bad

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 18, 2022, 10:07:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 08:45:24 AM
Quote from: lenny on August 18, 2022, 07:55:27 AM
A lot of people think this is a mild virus and they got over it no problem but...

Millions of people who have had Covid-19 still face a higher risk of neurological and psychiatric conditions, including brain fog, dementia and psychosis, two years after their illness, compared with those who have had other respiratory infections, according to the single largest study of its kind.

They also face an increased risk of anxiety and depression, the research suggests, but this subsides within two months of having Covid-19. The findings are published in the Lancet Psychiatry journal.

Work colleague of mine, some underlying conditions has been off for that last 2 weeks with covid, he's not hospitalised but did need to go to A&E.

He's not in he's no wages, so this isnt a handy wee staying off. Some people are getting it bad

It's an n=1 but it gives a little credence to my assertion that we should take personal responsibility for our health and not blame everyone else for our ills.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 18, 2022, 11:31:52 AM
Quote from: Last Man on August 18, 2022, 10:07:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 08:45:24 AM
Quote from: lenny on August 18, 2022, 07:55:27 AM
A lot of people think this is a mild virus and they got over it no problem but...

Millions of people who have had Covid-19 still face a higher risk of neurological and psychiatric conditions, including brain fog, dementia and psychosis, two years after their illness, compared with those who have had other respiratory infections, according to the single largest study of its kind.

They also face an increased risk of anxiety and depression, the research suggests, but this subsides within two months of having Covid-19. The findings are published in the Lancet Psychiatry journal.

Work colleague of mine, some underlying conditions has been off for that last 2 weeks with covid, he's not hospitalised but did need to go to A&E.

He's not in he's no wages, so this isnt a handy wee staying off. Some people are getting it bad

It's an n=1 but it gives a little credence to my assertion that we should take personal responsibility for our health and not blame everyone else for our ills.

Some people believe that includes taking a vaccine for a serious illness.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 12:09:37 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 18, 2022, 10:07:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 08:45:24 AM
Quote from: lenny on August 18, 2022, 07:55:27 AM
A lot of people think this is a mild virus and they got over it no problem but...

Millions of people who have had Covid-19 still face a higher risk of neurological and psychiatric conditions, including brain fog, dementia and psychosis, two years after their illness, compared with those who have had other respiratory infections, according to the single largest study of its kind.

They also face an increased risk of anxiety and depression, the research suggests, but this subsides within two months of having Covid-19. The findings are published in the Lancet Psychiatry journal.

Work colleague of mine, some underlying conditions has been off for that last 2 weeks with covid, he's not hospitalised but did need to go to A&E.

He's not in he's no wages, so this isnt a handy wee staying off. Some people are getting it bad

It's an n=1 but it gives a little credence to my assertion that we should take personal responsibility for our health and not blame everyone else for our ills.

His underlying condition was not through taking the piss out of your body though, just an unfortunate bowl thing that was genetic or passed down..

A bit like this fecking gout my dad left me with, though the red wine and steak doesn't help  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 18, 2022, 12:13:06 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 18, 2022, 11:31:52 AM
Quote from: Last Man on August 18, 2022, 10:07:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 08:45:24 AM
Quote from: lenny on August 18, 2022, 07:55:27 AM
A lot of people think this is a mild virus and they got over it no problem but...

Millions of people who have had Covid-19 still face a higher risk of neurological and psychiatric conditions, including brain fog, dementia and psychosis, two years after their illness, compared with those who have had other respiratory infections, according to the single largest study of its kind.

They also face an increased risk of anxiety and depression, the research suggests, but this subsides within two months of having Covid-19. The findings are published in the Lancet Psychiatry journal.

Work colleague of mine, some underlying conditions has been off for that last 2 weeks with covid, he's not hospitalised but did need to go to A&E.

He's not in he's no wages, so this isnt a handy wee staying off. Some people are getting it bad

It's an n=1 but it gives a little credence to my assertion that we should take personal responsibility for our health and not blame everyone else for our ills.

Some people believe that includes taking a vaccine for a serious illness.
You seem to suggest that this vaccine has saved all takers. If you carrying excess fat, are insulin resistant or fully T2 diabetic you are in the cross hairs for a poor outcome. All self inflicted! And 10billion of our taxes goes to the treatment of T2 and it's complications. Seems more logical that we sort the root cause instead of spending money on needless drugs. That budget could be used for other treatments, cancers etc.
We just have to stop living these bullshit lifestyles and expect someone else to carry the can when it all goes bang.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 18, 2022, 12:20:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 12:09:37 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 18, 2022, 10:07:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 08:45:24 AM
Quote from: lenny on August 18, 2022, 07:55:27 AM
A lot of people think this is a mild virus and they got over it no problem but...

Millions of people who have had Covid-19 still face a higher risk of neurological and psychiatric conditions, including brain fog, dementia and psychosis, two years after their illness, compared with those who have had other respiratory infections, according to the single largest study of its kind.

They also face an increased risk of anxiety and depression, the research suggests, but this subsides within two months of having Covid-19. The findings are published in the Lancet Psychiatry journal.

Work colleague of mine, some underlying conditions has been off for that last 2 weeks with covid, he's not hospitalised but did need to go to A&E.

He's not in he's no wages, so this isnt a handy wee staying off. Some people are getting it bad

It's an n=1 but it gives a little credence to my assertion that we should take personal responsibility for our health and not blame everyone else for our ills.

His underlying condition was not through taking the piss out of your body though, just an unfortunate bowl thing that was genetic or passed down..

A bit like this fecking gout my dad left me with, though the red wine and steak doesn't help  ;D

You should do some rreading on that MR. Not everything in your genetics dictates outcomes. It's a fact that diet, lifestyle and environmental factors will effect gene expression. A lot of that is in your control
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 18, 2022, 12:27:24 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 18, 2022, 12:13:06 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 18, 2022, 11:31:52 AM
Quote from: Last Man on August 18, 2022, 10:07:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 08:45:24 AM
Quote from: lenny on August 18, 2022, 07:55:27 AM
A lot of people think this is a mild virus and they got over it no problem but...

Millions of people who have had Covid-19 still face a higher risk of neurological and psychiatric conditions, including brain fog, dementia and psychosis, two years after their illness, compared with those who have had other respiratory infections, according to the single largest study of its kind.

They also face an increased risk of anxiety and depression, the research suggests, but this subsides within two months of having Covid-19. The findings are published in the Lancet Psychiatry journal.

Work colleague of mine, some underlying conditions has been off for that last 2 weeks with covid, he's not hospitalised but did need to go to A&E.

He's not in he's no wages, so this isnt a handy wee staying off. Some people are getting it bad

It's an n=1 but it gives a little credence to my assertion that we should take personal responsibility for our health and not blame everyone else for our ills.

Some people believe that includes taking a vaccine for a serious illness.
You seem to suggest that this vaccine has saved all takers. If you carrying excess fat, are insulin resistant or fully T2 diabetic you are in the cross hairs for a poor outcome. All self inflicted! And 10billion of our taxes goes to the treatment of T2 and it's complications. Seems more logical that we sort the root cause instead of spending money on needless drugs. That budget could be used for other treatments, cancers etc.
We just have to stop living these bullshit lifestyles and expect someone else to carry the can when it all goes bang.

It's done a pretty good job of saving people in my view.
The root cause of covid wasn't T2 or people being over weight. They aren't exclusive. Covid was a pandemic, one that seems to be over the worse of it. Suggesting covid could have been prevented by healthy eating is nonsense. Mainly because your utopian view that people take more responsibility isn't possible across the globe. Therefore the investment in trying to protect the vulnerable population wasn't wasted money imo. Far from it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 12:29:23 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 18, 2022, 12:20:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 12:09:37 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 18, 2022, 10:07:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 08:45:24 AM
Quote from: lenny on August 18, 2022, 07:55:27 AM
A lot of people think this is a mild virus and they got over it no problem but...

Millions of people who have had Covid-19 still face a higher risk of neurological and psychiatric conditions, including brain fog, dementia and psychosis, two years after their illness, compared with those who have had other respiratory infections, according to the single largest study of its kind.

They also face an increased risk of anxiety and depression, the research suggests, but this subsides within two months of having Covid-19. The findings are published in the Lancet Psychiatry journal.

Work colleague of mine, some underlying conditions has been off for that last 2 weeks with covid, he's not hospitalised but did need to go to A&E.

He's not in he's no wages, so this isnt a handy wee staying off. Some people are getting it bad

It's an n=1 but it gives a little credence to my assertion that we should take personal responsibility for our health and not blame everyone else for our ills.

His underlying condition was not through taking the piss out of your body though, just an unfortunate bowl thing that was genetic or passed down..

A bit like this fecking gout my dad left me with, though the red wine and steak doesn't help  ;D

You should do some rreading on that MR. Not everything in your genetics dictates outcomes. It's a fact that diet, lifestyle and environmental factors will effect gene expression. A lot of that is in your control

I know what to do, but not really willing to give up on certain things... Flares up couple times a year and lasts few days or over a week..

Other than that I'm pretty healthy and fit
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 18, 2022, 02:47:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 12:29:23 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 18, 2022, 12:20:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 12:09:37 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 18, 2022, 10:07:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 08:45:24 AM
Quote from: lenny on August 18, 2022, 07:55:27 AM
A lot of people think this is a mild virus and they got over it no problem but...

Millions of people who have had Covid-19 still face a higher risk of neurological and psychiatric conditions, including brain fog, dementia and psychosis, two years after their illness, compared with those who have had other respiratory infections, according to the single largest study of its kind.

They also face an increased risk of anxiety and depression, the research suggests, but this subsides within two months of having Covid-19. The findings are published in the Lancet Psychiatry journal.

Work colleague of mine, some underlying conditions has been off for that last 2 weeks with covid, he's not hospitalised but did need to go to A&E.

He's not in he's no wages, so this isnt a handy wee staying off. Some people are getting it bad

It's an n=1 but it gives a little credence to my assertion that we should take personal responsibility for our health and not blame everyone else for our ills.

His underlying condition was not through taking the piss out of your body though, just an unfortunate bowl thing that was genetic or passed down..

A bit like this fecking gout my dad left me with, though the red wine and steak doesn't help  ;D

You should do some rreading on that MR. Not everything in your genetics dictates outcomes. It's a fact that diet, lifestyle and environmental factors will effect gene expression. A lot of that is in your control

I know what to do, but not really willing to give up on certain things... Flares up couple times a year and lasts few days or over a week..

Other than that I'm pretty healthy and fit
Personally I wouldn't be that complacent, but that's just me. Here's an interesting video for you. You won't like what he has to say lol.
https://youtu.be/95mhn0ry2LY
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 19, 2022, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: Last Man on August 18, 2022, 02:47:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 12:29:23 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 18, 2022, 12:20:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 12:09:37 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 18, 2022, 10:07:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 08:45:24 AM
Quote from: lenny on August 18, 2022, 07:55:27 AM
A lot of people think this is a mild virus and they got over it no problem but...

Millions of people who have had Covid-19 still face a higher risk of neurological and psychiatric conditions, including brain fog, dementia and psychosis, two years after their illness, compared with those who have had other respiratory infections, according to the single largest study of its kind.

They also face an increased risk of anxiety and depression, the research suggests, but this subsides within two months of having Covid-19. The findings are published in the Lancet Psychiatry journal.

Work colleague of mine, some underlying conditions has been off for that last 2 weeks with covid, he's not hospitalised but did need to go to A&E.

He's not in he's no wages, so this isnt a handy wee staying off. Some people are getting it bad

It's an n=1 but it gives a little credence to my assertion that we should take personal responsibility for our health and not blame everyone else for our ills.

His underlying condition was not through taking the piss out of your body though, just an unfortunate bowl thing that was genetic or passed down..

A bit like this fecking gout my dad left me with, though the red wine and steak doesn't help  ;D

You should do some rreading on that MR. Not everything in your genetics dictates outcomes. It's a fact that diet, lifestyle and environmental factors will effect gene expression. A lot of that is in your control

I know what to do, but not really willing to give up on certain things... Flares up couple times a year and lasts few days or over a week..

Other than that I'm pretty healthy and fit
Personally I wouldn't be that complacent, but that's just me. Here's an interesting video for you. You won't like what he has to say lol.
https://youtu.be/95mhn0ry2LY

There's a lot I'm happy with but cutting out the beer wine will be during the week only!! Naproxen will have to do  ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 20, 2022, 08:48:23 AM
On this pissing down Saturday morning this is worth a watch to give you some perspective on the current state of our health system and why we should demand better.
https://youtu.be/Jt8y4r21y0w
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on August 20, 2022, 10:07:14 PM
Good levels of vitamin d help against having a bad outcome from Covid , another conspiracy theory proved correct
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AustinPowers on August 20, 2022, 10:45:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 20, 2022, 10:07:14 PM
Good levels of vitamin d help against having a bad outcome from Covid , another conspiracy theory proved correct

So Vit D  doesn't help against covid? Is that  what you mean?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on August 20, 2022, 11:39:34 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on August 20, 2022, 10:45:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 20, 2022, 10:07:14 PM
Good levels of vitamin d help against having a bad outcome from Covid , another conspiracy theory proved correct

So Vit D  doesn't help against covid? Is that  what you mean?
yes it helps a lot but was called quackery by so called experts in 2020/21
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 20, 2022, 11:52:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 20, 2022, 11:39:34 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on August 20, 2022, 10:45:42 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 20, 2022, 10:07:14 PM
Good levels of vitamin d help against having a bad outcome from Covid , another conspiracy theory proved correct

So Vit D  doesn't help against covid? Is that  what you mean?
yes it helps a lot but was called quackery by so called experts in 2020/21
Are you sure your not confusing Vitamin d and bleach?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 21, 2022, 11:41:40 AM
Yeah I don't remember it ever being called quackery. Ivermectin or whatever you call it and bleach yes.

Vitamin d helping against COVID has nothing to do with conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theories included vaccine passports are here to stay because it's part of the plan, COVID is part of a grand plan, it's part of a rest etc etc.  They are not the same thing...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 21, 2022, 01:08:24 PM
There's articles back in 2021 from the nhs stating Vit D may help and they were collecting data on it.

Bleach on the other hand....,,,
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 21, 2022, 04:43:46 PM
 ;D Yeah I am not sure the term conspiracy theory is an understood one in some quarters...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on August 21, 2022, 04:52:26 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 21, 2022, 11:41:40 AM
Yeah I don't remember it ever being called quackery. Ivermectin or whatever you call it and bleach yes.

Vitamin d helping against COVID has nothing to do with conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theories included vaccine passports are here to stay because it's part of the plan, COVID is part of a grand plan, it's part of a rest etc etc.  They are not the same thing...

They're actually still evaluating Ivermectin (and favipiravir). They ruled out hydroxychloroquine within a very short time in 2020 and then the antibiotics Aziththromycin and Doxycycline in early 2021 and Colchicine mid 2021. Budesonide was the only drug (at this stage) they found effective in reducing recovery time.

https://www.principletrial.org
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 21, 2022, 05:03:04 PM
Yeah tbf the ivermectin now has more legs in it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on August 21, 2022, 08:37:09 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 21, 2022, 04:43:46 PM
;D Yeah I am not sure the term conspiracy theory is an understood one in some quarters...

In fairness the supplemental use of vitamin d was ridiculed by a number of media outlets at the early stages of covid 19 outbreak in 2020. Its use was lumped in with that of hydroxychlorquine, Ivermectin and a number of other medications at that time.
      A quick google of conspiracy theories and vitamin d will throw up quite a few links, most going back to 2020.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-conspiracy-theories-myths-debunked-135739788.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAE0pdP1Ucz1P17hWykf8DVTvdjpkEa-gDkVWwiltDSI9d2bHuPH8erogATcCkFO02yq10i1oLvXnLLzkUn6o_o30GOV82HWlIBRWE4YDhi4k54rPqQb62sxFjA_d8Deo_r0trNBqAXzB9J96OLpktfXoI59K-LNvLXUW8wzVWzNT

https://infodemiology.jmir.org/2022/1/e32452/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 21, 2022, 10:39:51 PM
Quote from: grounded on August 21, 2022, 08:37:09 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 21, 2022, 04:43:46 PM
;D Yeah I am not sure the term conspiracy theory is an understood one in some quarters...

In fairness the supplemental use of vitamin d was ridiculed by a number of media outlets at the early stages of covid 19 outbreak in 2020. Its use was lumped in with that of hydroxychlorquine, Ivermectin and a number of other medications at that time.
      A quick google of conspiracy theories and vitamin d will throw up quite a few links, most going back to 2020.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-conspiracy-theories-myths-debunked-135739788.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAE0pdP1Ucz1P17hWykf8DVTvdjpkEa-gDkVWwiltDSI9d2bHuPH8erogATcCkFO02yq10i1oLvXnLLzkUn6o_o30GOV82HWlIBRWE4YDhi4k54rPqQb62sxFjA_d8Deo_r0trNBqAXzB9J96OLpktfXoI59K-LNvLXUW8wzVWzNT

https://infodemiology.jmir.org/2022/1/e32452/

To be fair that link was March 2020. And does vit D prevent covid? I thought it lessened the impact?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 21, 2022, 11:30:19 PM
Lads, wondering how the Covid-19 vaccine works these days? Does it still depend on herd immunity. Will the unwashed unvaccinated still be the threat to human existence that they were at the beginning of the year? Will we (the unwashed) be treated as 2nd class citizens (again) this winter? Or has all been forgotten and all of that was a big load of silly beggars? Asking for a growing number of friends.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on August 21, 2022, 11:43:53 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 21, 2022, 10:39:51 PM
Quote from: grounded on August 21, 2022, 08:37:09 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 21, 2022, 04:43:46 PM
;D Yeah I am not sure the term conspiracy theory is an understood one in some quarters...

In fairness the supplemental use of vitamin d was ridiculed by a number of media outlets at the early stages of covid 19 outbreak in 2020. Its use was lumped in with that of hydroxychlorquine, Ivermectin and a number of other medications at that time.
      A quick google of conspiracy theories and vitamin d will throw up quite a few links, most going back to 2020.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-conspiracy-theories-myths-debunked-135739788.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAE0pdP1Ucz1P17hWykf8DVTvdjpkEa-gDkVWwiltDSI9d2bHuPH8erogATcCkFO02yq10i1oLvXnLLzkUn6o_o30GOV82HWlIBRWE4YDhi4k54rPqQb62sxFjA_d8Deo_r0trNBqAXzB9J96OLpktfXoI59K-LNvLXUW8wzVWzNT

https://infodemiology.jmir.org/2022/1/e32452/

To be fair that link was March 2020. And does vit D prevent covid? I thought it lessened the impact?
oh so it's the same as the vaccine ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on August 21, 2022, 11:46:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 21, 2022, 10:39:51 PM
Quote from: grounded on August 21, 2022, 08:37:09 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 21, 2022, 04:43:46 PM
;D Yeah I am not sure the term conspiracy theory is an understood one in some quarters...

In fairness the supplemental use of vitamin d was ridiculed by a number of media outlets at the early stages of covid 19 outbreak in 2020. Its use was lumped in with that of hydroxychlorquine, Ivermectin and a number of other medications at that time.
      A quick google of conspiracy theories and vitamin d will throw up quite a few links, most going back to 2020.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-conspiracy-theories-myths-debunked-135739788.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAE0pdP1Ucz1P17hWykf8DVTvdjpkEa-gDkVWwiltDSI9d2bHuPH8erogATcCkFO02yq10i1oLvXnLLzkUn6o_o30GOV82HWlIBRWE4YDhi4k54rPqQb62sxFjA_d8Deo_r0trNBqAXzB9J96OLpktfXoI59K-LNvLXUW8wzVWzNT

https://infodemiology.jmir.org/2022/1/e32452/

To be fair that link was March 2020. And does vit D prevent covid? I thought it lessened the impact?

A vitamin d deficiency has been shown to increase the likelihood of developing a severe or critical case of Covid 19 as compared to those with sufficient  levels of vitamin d present in their system.

https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/what-is-the-link-between-vitamin-d-levels-and-covid-19/2022/02

And another small scale study from Ireland

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/08/19/insufficient-vitamin-d-linked-to-fourfold-increase-in-risk-of-death-among-covid-19-patients/


I suppose the point is,  it took time to prove/disprove certain treatments/medications.  Even after 2 and a half years, definitive evidence for the use/non-use of some medications in relation to Covid 19 treatments has still not been produced.
         In the case of vitamin d supplements, they got ridiculed early on in the pandemic as being 'quackology' ( similar to Ivermectin) by many media outlets. Later as more evidence began emerging of the link with vit d deficiency and Covid 19, this media portrayal changed somewhat. Similarly if (and it's a very big if) the Principal trial shows Ivermectin to have a medicinal benefit in Covid 19 treatment, i assume the msm outlets will have to do a u-turn on their earlier reporting.







Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 09:08:01 AM
Quote from: grounded on August 21, 2022, 11:46:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 21, 2022, 10:39:51 PM
Quote from: grounded on August 21, 2022, 08:37:09 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 21, 2022, 04:43:46 PM
;D Yeah I am not sure the term conspiracy theory is an understood one in some quarters...

In fairness the supplemental use of vitamin d was ridiculed by a number of media outlets at the early stages of covid 19 outbreak in 2020. Its use was lumped in with that of hydroxychlorquine, Ivermectin and a number of other medications at that time.
      A quick google of conspiracy theories and vitamin d will throw up quite a few links, most going back to 2020.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-conspiracy-theories-myths-debunked-135739788.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAE0pdP1Ucz1P17hWykf8DVTvdjpkEa-gDkVWwiltDSI9d2bHuPH8erogATcCkFO02yq10i1oLvXnLLzkUn6o_o30GOV82HWlIBRWE4YDhi4k54rPqQb62sxFjA_d8Deo_r0trNBqAXzB9J96OLpktfXoI59K-LNvLXUW8wzVWzNT

https://infodemiology.jmir.org/2022/1/e32452/

To be fair that link was March 2020. And does vit D prevent covid? I thought it lessened the impact?

A vitamin d deficiency has been shown to increase the likelihood of developing a severe or critical case of Covid 19 as compared to those with sufficient  levels of vitamin d present in their system.

https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/what-is-the-link-between-vitamin-d-levels-and-covid-19/2022/02

And another small scale study from Ireland

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/08/19/insufficient-vitamin-d-linked-to-fourfold-increase-in-risk-of-death-among-covid-19-patients/


I suppose the point is,  it took time to prove/disprove certain treatments/medications.  Even after 2 and a half years, definitive evidence for the use/non-use of some medications in relation to Covid 19 treatments has still not been produced.
         In the case of vitamin d supplements, they got ridiculed early on in the pandemic as being 'quackology' ( similar to Ivermectin) by many media outlets. Later as more evidence began emerging of the link with vit d deficiency and Covid 19, this media portrayal changed somewhat. Similarly if (and it's a very big if) the Principal trial shows Ivermectin to have a medicinal benefit in Covid 19 treatment, i assume the msm outlets will have to do a u-turn on their earlier reporting.

I honestly don't remember the vitamin D theory getting anything like the same treatment as Ivermectin or bleach.
Science generally doesn't have an issue with making uturns when the evidence is there to support it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on August 22, 2022, 09:46:41 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 09:08:01 AM
I honestly don't remember the vitamin D theory getting anything like the same treatment as Ivermectin or bleach.
Science generally doesn't have an issue with making uturns when the evidence is there to support it.

When you have existing cheap as chips medicinal compounds with well understood safety profiles (safer than aspirin) showing a signal (by clinicians that the main stream want to silence) that there was positive benefits being seen, it would seem to me that there should have been some western government somewhere adopt a strategy to give them a good go (given their safety profiles). When vitamin D and ivermectin were being mentioned way before vaccines arrived, the fact this didnt happen, given the direness of the situation and the impact on the economy is just plain weird to me. Then adding in the media being so quick to ridicule, rather than rationally ask "is this not worth a try?" added to the weirdness. A lot of people obviously don't see this perspective.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 10:30:53 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 22, 2022, 09:46:41 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 09:08:01 AM
I honestly don't remember the vitamin D theory getting anything like the same treatment as Ivermectin or bleach.
Science generally doesn't have an issue with making uturns when the evidence is there to support it.

When you have existing cheap as chips medicinal compounds with well understood safety profiles (safer than aspirin) showing a signal (by clinicians that the main stream want to silence) that there was positive benefits being seen, it would seem to me that there should have been some western government somewhere adopt a strategy to give them a good go (given their safety profiles). When vitamin D and ivermectin were being mentioned way before vaccines arrived, the fact this didnt happen, given the direness of the situation and the impact on the economy is just plain weird to me. Then adding in the media being so quick to ridicule, rather than rationally ask "is this not worth a try?" added to the weirdness. A lot of people obviously don't see this perspective.

Yeah I suppose it's about perspective. Ivermectin had a number of unsuccessful trials so I'm not surprised it was never pushed by "mainstream". And I don't honestly remember the push against vitamin D. I remember they saying they didn't have evidence of how it works as a treatment for covid. But certainly wasn't viewed a quackery.
That's the thing with the "mainstream". They are under a lot more responsibility that someone on Facebook or twitter. They have to have evidence to back up they decisions. If something is lacking data, they won't support it. Rightly so in my eyes, as their decisions carry much more weight that any other groups or people on the internet. And this is where perspective comes in. Some people will see that as a conspiracy when imo it's nothing of the sort.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on August 22, 2022, 10:33:35 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 09:08:01 AM
Quote from: grounded on August 21, 2022, 11:46:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 21, 2022, 10:39:51 PM
Quote from: grounded on August 21, 2022, 08:37:09 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 21, 2022, 04:43:46 PM
;D Yeah I am not sure the term conspiracy theory is an understood one in some quarters...

In fairness the supplemental use of vitamin d was ridiculed by a number of media outlets at the early stages of covid 19 outbreak in 2020. Its use was lumped in with that of hydroxychlorquine, Ivermectin and a number of other medications at that time.
      A quick google of conspiracy theories and vitamin d will throw up quite a few links, most going back to 2020.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-conspiracy-theories-myths-debunked-135739788.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAE0pdP1Ucz1P17hWykf8DVTvdjpkEa-gDkVWwiltDSI9d2bHuPH8erogATcCkFO02yq10i1oLvXnLLzkUn6o_o30GOV82HWlIBRWE4YDhi4k54rPqQb62sxFjA_d8Deo_r0trNBqAXzB9J96OLpktfXoI59K-LNvLXUW8wzVWzNT

https://infodemiology.jmir.org/2022/1/e32452/

To be fair that link was March 2020. And does vit D prevent covid? I thought it lessened the impact?

A vitamin d deficiency has been shown to increase the likelihood of developing a severe or critical case of Covid 19 as compared to those with sufficient  levels of vitamin d present in their system.

https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/what-is-the-link-between-vitamin-d-levels-and-covid-19/2022/02

And another small scale study from Ireland

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/08/19/insufficient-vitamin-d-linked-to-fourfold-increase-in-risk-of-death-among-covid-19-patients/


I suppose the point is,  it took time to prove/disprove certain treatments/medications.  Even after 2 and a half years, definitive evidence for the use/non-use of some medications in relation to Covid 19 treatments has still not been produced.
         In the case of vitamin d supplements, they got ridiculed early on in the pandemic as being 'quackology' ( similar to Ivermectin) by many media outlets. Later as more evidence began emerging of the link with vit d deficiency and Covid 19, this media portrayal changed somewhat. Similarly if (and it's a very big if) the Principal trial shows Ivermectin to have a medicinal benefit in Covid 19 treatment, i assume the msm outlets will have to do a u-turn on their earlier reporting.

I honestly don't remember the vitamin D theory getting anything like the same treatment as Ivermectin or bleach.
Science generally doesn't have an issue with making uturns when the evidence is there to support it.

Fair enough, but a quick search will throw up loads of Vitamin D debunked/covid 19 myths articles. They haven't even removed/corrected them given the more current studies.(i've linked just a few below)
         There actually were studies produced around that time(2020) linking low vit D levels and Covid 19 but these were quickly dismissed as being flawed in some way (many actually were). Many people who advocating their use(given the scientific evidence available at that time) were labelled as quacks by other researchers and the supplemental use of vit D was thrown in with other more dubious treatments by msm outlets.
         

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/5-persistent-myths-about-coronavirus-and-why-they-are-untrue
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-myths/art-20485720
https://www.fda.gov/consumers/health-fraud-scams/fraudulent-coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19-products
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/2019-novel-coronavirus-myth-versus-fact%3famp=true
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7443564/



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hound on August 22, 2022, 10:40:13 AM
Lumping in Vitamin D with the others is disingenuous and anyone suggesting that clinicians who advocate the use of Vitamin D are being silenced are also being disingenuous.

Vitamin D has long been advocated as something that improves health and healthy lifespan. You can't point to it as something that specifically prevents Covid or anything else (other than rickets), but people with higher levels tend to do better than people with low levels across a whole swath of illnesses.

The HSE have had recommendations re Vitamin D since long before Covid
https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/


As an aside, Vitamin D was first recommended to me a decade or so ago by a yank scientist who was looking to create a drug that increased lifespan by mixing Vit D with other compounds.
He said that everytime he mixed Vit D with more than 2 other compounds, the effect of Vit D was diminished. So his strong recommendation was to take it on its own or as part of a twin compound tablet - but never as a multi vitamin tablet as the benefit would be lost.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 10:42:56 AM
Quote from: grounded on August 22, 2022, 10:33:35 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 09:08:01 AM
Quote from: grounded on August 21, 2022, 11:46:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 21, 2022, 10:39:51 PM
Quote from: grounded on August 21, 2022, 08:37:09 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 21, 2022, 04:43:46 PM
;D Yeah I am not sure the term conspiracy theory is an understood one in some quarters...

In fairness the supplemental use of vitamin d was ridiculed by a number of media outlets at the early stages of covid 19 outbreak in 2020. Its use was lumped in with that of hydroxychlorquine, Ivermectin and a number of other medications at that time.
      A quick google of conspiracy theories and vitamin d will throw up quite a few links, most going back to 2020.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-conspiracy-theories-myths-debunked-135739788.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAE0pdP1Ucz1P17hWykf8DVTvdjpkEa-gDkVWwiltDSI9d2bHuPH8erogATcCkFO02yq10i1oLvXnLLzkUn6o_o30GOV82HWlIBRWE4YDhi4k54rPqQb62sxFjA_d8Deo_r0trNBqAXzB9J96OLpktfXoI59K-LNvLXUW8wzVWzNT

https://infodemiology.jmir.org/2022/1/e32452/

To be fair that link was March 2020. And does vit D prevent covid? I thought it lessened the impact?

A vitamin d deficiency has been shown to increase the likelihood of developing a severe or critical case of Covid 19 as compared to those with sufficient  levels of vitamin d present in their system.

https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/what-is-the-link-between-vitamin-d-levels-and-covid-19/2022/02

And another small scale study from Ireland

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/08/19/insufficient-vitamin-d-linked-to-fourfold-increase-in-risk-of-death-among-covid-19-patients/


I suppose the point is,  it took time to prove/disprove certain treatments/medications.  Even after 2 and a half years, definitive evidence for the use/non-use of some medications in relation to Covid 19 treatments has still not been produced.
         In the case of vitamin d supplements, they got ridiculed early on in the pandemic as being 'quackology' ( similar to Ivermectin) by many media outlets. Later as more evidence began emerging of the link with vit d deficiency and Covid 19, this media portrayal changed somewhat. Similarly if (and it's a very big if) the Principal trial shows Ivermectin to have a medicinal benefit in Covid 19 treatment, i assume the msm outlets will have to do a u-turn on their earlier reporting.

I honestly don't remember the vitamin D theory getting anything like the same treatment as Ivermectin or bleach.
Science generally doesn't have an issue with making uturns when the evidence is there to support it.

Fair enough, but a quick search will throw up loads of Vitamin D debunked/covid 19 myths articles. They haven't even removed/corrected them given the more current studies.(i've linked just a few below)
         There actually were studies produced around that time(2020) linking low vit D levels and Covid 19 but these were quickly dismissed as being flawed in some way (many actually were). Many people who advocating their use(given the scientific evidence available at that time) were labelled as quacks by other researchers and the supplemental use of vit D was thrown in with other more dubious treatments by msm outlets.
         

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/5-persistent-myths-about-coronavirus-and-why-they-are-untrue
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-myths/art-20485720
https://www.fda.gov/consumers/health-fraud-scams/fraudulent-coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19-products
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/2019-novel-coronavirus-myth-versus-fact%3famp=true
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7443564/
But as you say some trials were flawed so in that case, any "main stream" medical organisation would have been leaving themselves wide open if they supported it without correct data.
Most medical organisations changed and supported vit D when there was data. There's docs from the nhs that said it can help improve immune system which can help fight covid as far back as late 2020.
I look at this and see the natural progression of data gathering and research. Others see a conspiracy. Each to their own.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on August 22, 2022, 10:50:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 10:30:53 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 22, 2022, 09:46:41 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 09:08:01 AM
I honestly don't remember the vitamin D theory getting anything like the same treatment as Ivermectin or bleach.
Science generally doesn't have an issue with making uturns when the evidence is there to support it.

When you have existing cheap as chips medicinal compounds with well understood safety profiles (safer than aspirin) showing a signal (by clinicians that the main stream want to silence) that there was positive benefits being seen, it would seem to me that there should have been some western government somewhere adopt a strategy to give them a good go (given their safety profiles). When vitamin D and ivermectin were being mentioned way before vaccines arrived, the fact this didnt happen, given the direness of the situation and the impact on the economy is just plain weird to me. Then adding in the media being so quick to ridicule, rather than rationally ask "is this not worth a try?" added to the weirdness. A lot of people obviously don't see this perspective.

Yeah I suppose it's about perspective. Ivermectin had a number of unsuccessful trials so I'm not surprised it was never pushed by "mainstream". And I don't honestly remember the push against vitamin D. I remember they saying they didn't have evidence of how it works as a treatment for covid. But certainly wasn't viewed a quackery.
That's the thing with the "mainstream". They are under a lot more responsibility that someone on Facebook or twitter. They have to have evidence to back up they decisions. If something is lacking data, they won't support it. Rightly so in my eyes, as their decisions carry much more weight that any other groups or people on the internet. And this is where perspective comes in. Some people will see that as a conspiracy when imo it's nothing of the sort.

Carrying out a randomised double blind placebo trial for these medications and their effects on Covid 19  is an incredibly difficult/complex/expensive/time consuming affair. That's the 'Gold Standard study 'that the academics want. As i said that principle study is still underway for Ivermectin (14 months)and Favipiravar (16 months).  Thats an NHS government backed study.
           What private company would invest in a study for a drug that they dont have a patent for. What would be their incentive? Good of humankind? 
         
         
       
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 10:55:19 AM
Quote from: grounded on August 22, 2022, 10:50:22 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 10:30:53 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 22, 2022, 09:46:41 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 09:08:01 AM
I honestly don't remember the vitamin D theory getting anything like the same treatment as Ivermectin or bleach.
Science generally doesn't have an issue with making uturns when the evidence is there to support it.

When you have existing cheap as chips medicinal compounds with well understood safety profiles (safer than aspirin) showing a signal (by clinicians that the main stream want to silence) that there was positive benefits being seen, it would seem to me that there should have been some western government somewhere adopt a strategy to give them a good go (given their safety profiles). When vitamin D and ivermectin were being mentioned way before vaccines arrived, the fact this didnt happen, given the direness of the situation and the impact on the economy is just plain weird to me. Then adding in the media being so quick to ridicule, rather than rationally ask "is this not worth a try?" added to the weirdness. A lot of people obviously don't see this perspective.

Yeah I suppose it's about perspective. Ivermectin had a number of unsuccessful trials so I'm not surprised it was never pushed by "mainstream". And I don't honestly remember the push against vitamin D. I remember they saying they didn't have evidence of how it works as a treatment for covid. But certainly wasn't viewed a quackery.
That's the thing with the "mainstream". They are under a lot more responsibility that someone on Facebook or twitter. They have to have evidence to back up they decisions. If something is lacking data, they won't support it. Rightly so in my eyes, as their decisions carry much more weight that any other groups or people on the internet. And this is where perspective comes in. Some people will see that as a conspiracy when imo it's nothing of the sort.

Carrying out a randomised double blind placebo trial for these medications and their effects on Covid 19  is an incredibly difficult/complex/expensive/time consuming affair. That's what the academics want. As i said that principle study is still underway for Ivermectin (14 months)and Favipiravar (16 months).  Thats an NHS government backed study.
           What private company would invest in a study for a drug that they dont have a patent for. What would be their incentive? Good of humankind? 
         
         
       

I don't know what your point is? I never expected a private company to invest in a drug they don't have a patent for. I don't think anyone would.
I just don't see any cover up/ conspiracy that some here seem to think there was.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on August 22, 2022, 11:11:09 AM
Of course we all know vitamin D has long been advocated as something that improves health and healthy lifespan... thats the point.

There was evidence really really early that lower vitamin D levels were correlating with bad covid outcomes. No government done anything explicitly with that signal. It was worth doing given the low risk and the low cost of delivery, yet it wasn't.

Yeah ivermectin story is still in flux as we all know ... lets see how that pans out shall we, but why when you had highly respected clinicians saying that they are seeing benefits from using it coupled along with the fact its safer than everyday over the counter medicines .... again, why was that not enough for at least one western public health authority to give it a go given the health care panic at the time? I think its thats a reasonable thought to think.

 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 22, 2022, 11:23:29 AM
Wondering how the Covid-19 vaccine works these days? Does it still depend on herd immunity. Will the unvaccinated be a problem for herd immunity?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 11:26:41 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 22, 2022, 11:11:09 AM
Of course we all know vitamin D has long been advocated as something that improves health and healthy lifespan... thats the point.

There was evidence really really early that lower vitamin D levels were correlating with bad covid outcomes. No government done anything explicitly with that signal. It was worth doing given the low risk and the low cost of delivery, yet it wasn't.

Yeah ivermectin story is still in flux as we all know ... lets see how that pans out shall we, but why when you had highly respected clinicians saying that they are seeing benefits from using it coupled along with the fact its safer than everyday over the counter medicines .... again, why was that not enough for at least one western public health authority to give it a go given the health care panic at the time? I think its thats a reasonable thought to think.



Ivermectin also have some very unsuccessful trials. So I would not have expected any government to take a stab in the dark on it. Even now it's far from conclusive.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on August 22, 2022, 11:47:06 AM
Come on trueblue ......a drug which has data going back 40 years showing it is extremely safe was not worth trying (just to see given the lack of risk) when people are dying in IC wards? In war setting which it was ... this is exactly what should have happened.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 22, 2022, 11:58:36 AM
Certainly a study in Israel that correlated low serum vit D status with poor outcomes but it can't say there's direct causation. It is more likely a proxy for obesity caused by sitting inside all day snacking on shite which funny enough lock downs took to a whole new level. Getting outside into the sun shine is the best way to get your Vit D status up, taking exogenously is a very poor replacement.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 12:05:28 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 22, 2022, 11:47:06 AM
Come on trueblue ......a drug which has data going back 40 years showing it is extremely safe was not worth trying (just to see given the lack of risk) when people are dying in IC wards? In war setting which it was ... this is exactly what should have happened.
Why would they when there was little evidence to say it was effective? We obviously differ in views but I see no reason why they would have started widespread delivery of ivermectin. You don't start prescribing a drug across the board without strong evidence of success. I don't understand how you don't get that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on August 22, 2022, 12:22:27 PM
Didn't need 'strong' evidence in those early stages .... all it needed was the signal that it might work (given that the safety of the medication)

"Hey ..there are highly respected clinicians working in IC wards in another part of the world saying that they are seeing positive benefits from treating patients with ivermectin. The drug is safer to take than aspirin..there is well recorded data on its safety profile. Of course we can't say for sure if it will be of benefit at this stage, but given that its an extremely safe and cheap medication, what do you think about the idea of contacting a (or a few) regional health authorities to see if they'd be agreeable to start treating their patients (if the patients themselves agree) with the drug to see if we see a step change it their health outcomes relative to neighbouring areas? It would be great if we had an existing non patented drug to at least help treat this virus. Worth a try?" 

It was an easy argument to make

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on August 22, 2022, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 12:05:28 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 22, 2022, 11:47:06 AM
Come on trueblue ......a drug which has data going back 40 years showing it is extremely safe was not worth trying (just to see given the lack of risk) when people are dying in IC wards? In war setting which it was ... this is exactly what should have happened.
Why would they when there was little evidence to say it was effective? We obviously differ in views but I see no reason why they would have started widespread delivery of ivermectin. You don't start prescribing a drug across the board without strong evidence of success. I don't understand how you don't get that.

It cracks me up the way these people cried bloody murder about an "untested vaccine" yet wanted to give ivermectin to the whole population!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 12:28:09 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 22, 2022, 12:22:27 PM
Didn't need 'strong' evidence in those early stages .... all it needed was the signal that it might work (given that the safety of the medication)

"Hey ..there are highly respected clinicians working in IC wards in another part of the world saying that they are seeing positive benefits from treating patients with ivermectin. The drug is safer to take than aspirin..there is well recorded data on its safety profile. Of course we can't say for sure if it will be of benefit at this stage, but given that its an extremely safe and cheap medication, what do you think about the idea of contacting a (or a few) regional health authorities to see if they'd be agreeable to start treating their patients (if the patients themselves agree) with the drug to see if we see a step change it their health outcomes relative to neighbouring areas? It would be great if we had an existing non patented drug to at least help treat this virus. Worth a try?" 

It was an easy argument to make
I guess that shows the difference in people's perspective. For me, I'd have been gobsmacked if they had prescribed ivermectin on no concrete evidence.
On a side, after 2 years of ducking and dodging covid successfully I've just managed to pick it up.  :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on August 22, 2022, 12:31:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 22, 2022, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 12:05:28 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 22, 2022, 11:47:06 AM
Come on trueblue ......a drug which has data going back 40 years showing it is extremely safe was not worth trying (just to see given the lack of risk) when people are dying in IC wards? In war setting which it was ... this is exactly what should have happened.
Why would they when there was little evidence to say it was effective? We obviously differ in views but I see no reason why they would have started widespread delivery of ivermectin. You don't start prescribing a drug across the board without strong evidence of success. I don't understand how you don't get that.

It cracks me up the way these people cried bloody murder about an "untested vaccine" yet wanted to give ivermectin to the whole population!

Utter gobshites
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on August 22, 2022, 12:51:39 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 22, 2022, 11:58:36 AM
Certainly a study in Israel that correlated low serum vit D status with poor outcomes but it can't say there's direct causation. It is more likely a proxy for obesity caused by sitting inside all day snacking on shite which funny enough lock downs took to a whole new level. Getting outside into the sun shine is the best way to get your Vit D status up, taking exogenously is a very poor replacement.

Pretty decent article in relation to vitamin d deficiency and Covid 19 in Ireland.
     ' The design of vitamin D randomised controlled trials is notoriously problematic and these trials commonly fail for a number of behavioural and methodological reasons' .

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2022.835480/full
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 22, 2022, 01:08:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 22, 2022, 12:31:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 22, 2022, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 12:05:28 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 22, 2022, 11:47:06 AM
Come on trueblue ......a drug which has data going back 40 years showing it is extremely safe was not worth trying (just to see given the lack of risk) when people are dying in IC wards? In war setting which it was ... this is exactly what should have happened.
Why would they when there was little evidence to say it was effective? We obviously differ in views but I see no reason why they would have started widespread delivery of ivermectin. You don't start prescribing a drug across the board without strong evidence of success. I don't understand how you don't get that.

It cracks me up the way these people cried bloody murder about an "untested vaccine" yet wanted to give ivermectin to the whole population!

Utter gobshites
Because there would have been little or no risk as the drug itself has been in use since the mid 80s and is known to be very safe, therefore worth a go. As opposed to new drugs costing billions and which the efficacy is not certain nor are all the side effects known. It should have been a matter of personal choice. If you are aged, frightened, obese(even a little), on the diabetic/metabolic spectrum you should probably take a punt on the new stuff and whatever else you can do to improve your lot for that matter.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on August 22, 2022, 01:15:28 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 12:28:09 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 22, 2022, 12:22:27 PM
Didn't need 'strong' evidence in those early stages .... all it needed was the signal that it might work (given that the safety of the medication)

"Hey ..there are highly respected clinicians working in IC wards in another part of the world saying that they are seeing positive benefits from treating patients with ivermectin. The drug is safer to take than aspirin..there is well recorded data on its safety profile. Of course we can't say for sure if it will be of benefit at this stage, but given that its an extremely safe and cheap medication, what do you think about the idea of contacting a (or a few) regional health authorities to see if they'd be agreeable to start treating their patients (if the patients themselves agree) with the drug to see if we see a step change it their health outcomes relative to neighbouring areas? It would be great if we had an existing non patented drug to at least help treat this virus. Worth a try?" 

It was an easy argument to make
I guess that shows the difference in people's perspective. For me, I'd have been gobsmacked if they had prescribed ivermectin on no concrete evidence.
On a side, after 2 years of ducking and dodging covid successfully I've just managed to pick it up.  :(
[/quote

Hope you make a speedy recovery. ]
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on August 22, 2022, 01:23:28 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 22, 2022, 12:22:27 PM
Didn't need 'strong' evidence in those early stages .... all it needed was the signal that it might work (given that the safety of the medication)

"Hey ..there are highly respected clinicians working in IC wards in another part of the world saying that they are seeing positive benefits from treating patients with ivermectin. The drug is safer to take than aspirin..there is well recorded data on its safety profile. Of course we can't say for sure if it will be of benefit at this stage, but given that its an extremely safe and cheap medication, what do you think about the idea of contacting a (or a few) regional health authorities to see if they'd be agreeable to start treating their patients (if the patients themselves agree) with the drug to see if we see a step change it their health outcomes relative to neighbouring areas? It would be great if we had an existing non patented drug to at least help treat this virus. Worth a try?" 

It was an easy argument to make
That would have been a justification for a clinical trial if anyone thought it worth the cost and effort. A lot of commercial drugs were trialled by their manufacturers as there was Giveenment funding but he sides of the Atlantic for it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 01:27:15 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 22, 2022, 01:08:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 22, 2022, 12:31:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 22, 2022, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 12:05:28 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 22, 2022, 11:47:06 AM
Come on trueblue ......a drug which has data going back 40 years showing it is extremely safe was not worth trying (just to see given the lack of risk) when people are dying in IC wards? In war setting which it was ... this is exactly what should have happened.
Why would they when there was little evidence to say it was effective? We obviously differ in views but I see no reason why they would have started widespread delivery of ivermectin. You don't start prescribing a drug across the board without strong evidence of success. I don't understand how you don't get that.

It cracks me up the way these people cried bloody murder about an "untested vaccine" yet wanted to give ivermectin to the whole population!

Utter gobshites
Because there would have been little or no risk as the drug itself has been in use since the mid 80s and is known to be very safe, therefore worth a go. As opposed to new drugs costing billions and which the efficacy is not certain nor are all the side effects known. It should have been a matter of personal choice. If you are aged, frightened, obese(even a little), on the diabetic/metabolic spectrum you should probably take a punt on the new stuff and whatever else you can do to improve your lot for that matter.
The efficacy of the vaccine was proven. Some don't want to accept that, but the facts are out there. Ivermercim had nothing like the same success rates in any trials to date.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on August 22, 2022, 02:01:38 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on August 22, 2022, 01:23:28 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 22, 2022, 12:22:27 PM
Didn't need 'strong' evidence in those early stages .... all it needed was the signal that it might work (given that the safety of the medication)

"Hey ..there are highly respected clinicians working in IC wards in another part of the world saying that they are seeing positive benefits from treating patients with ivermectin. The drug is safer to take than aspirin..there is well recorded data on its safety profile. Of course we can't say for sure if it will be of benefit at this stage, but given that its an extremely safe and cheap medication, what do you think about the idea of contacting a (or a few) regional health authorities to see if they'd be agreeable to start treating their patients (if the patients themselves agree) with the drug to see if we see a step change it their health outcomes relative to neighbouring areas? It would be great if we had an existing non patented drug to at least help treat this virus. Worth a try?" 

It was an easy argument to make
That would have been a justification for a clinical trial if anyone thought it worth the cost and effort. 
          Absolutely, why would a pharmaceutical company fund an extremely costly study into an out of patent drug. They were developing their own Covid 19 antiviral drugs at the time (Maerk were developing Molnupiravir, Pfizer had Paxlovid, Roche and Gilead had a joint development of Actemra/remdesivir
          A goverment backed study was the only likely option to have the funding and the werewithall to study Ivermectin to the level that would satisfy the international scientific community. Despite Maerk themselves coming out against its use  https://www.merck.com/news/merck-statement-on-ivermectin-use-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/  Oxford University decided in June 2021 to begin that UK givernment/ NHS backed PRINCIPAL trial.
                     Why? Was it to satisfy all these conspiracy lunatics?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 22, 2022, 02:13:17 PM
Wondering how the Covid-19 vaccine works these days? Does it still depend on herd immunity. Will the unvaccinated be a problem for herd immunity?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on August 22, 2022, 03:55:07 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 22, 2022, 02:13:17 PM
Wondering how the Covid-19 vaccine works these days? Does it still depend on herd immunity. Will the unvaccinated be a problem for herd immunity?

It only works now if you drink 2 pints of Ivermectin, get a Vit D drip off a guy on the internet who is a part-qualified PT and has done his own research.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 22, 2022, 04:02:44 PM
Ah trailer - I was hoping someone would ignore him until the 10th time he asked the same question
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 22, 2022, 04:04:13 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 22, 2022, 04:02:44 PM
Ah trailer - I was hoping someone would ignore him until the 10th time he asked the same question

Yeah so was I.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on August 22, 2022, 04:35:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:13:53 PM
You laugh at me because you see scientists and experts and you blindly follow. They know more than you. Deaths were unavoidable. This was out our control. But it's not. The deaths were and should've been avoided. The scientists got it wrong. The experts don't know. Remember the experts who predicted that there'd be a soft landing to housing bubble in 2007. The same banking experts. The smartest minds.
They don't know. They're making it up as they go along. I could study "the science" for 24 hours and I'd be better placed to make decisions on what to do rather than these clowns. They're overpaid failures. People who couldn't cut it in the real business world were failure is punished.

From the bunker - this is the same trailer that wrote this, some bluffer. He runs with the foxes & the hounds, depends which way the wind is blowing.  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on August 22, 2022, 04:45:18 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 22, 2022, 04:35:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:13:53 PM
You laugh at me because you see scientists and experts and you blindly follow. They know more than you. Deaths were unavoidable. This was out our control. But it's not. The deaths were and should've been avoided. The scientists got it wrong. The experts don't know. Remember the experts who predicted that there'd be a soft landing to housing bubble in 2007. The same banking experts. The smartest minds.
They don't know. They're making it up as they go along. I could study "the science" for 24 hours and I'd be better placed to make decisions on what to do rather than these clowns. They're overpaid failures. People who couldn't cut it in the real business world were failure is punished.

From the bunker - this is the same trailer that wrote this, some bluffer. He runs with the foxes & the hounds, depends which way the wind is blowing.  ;D

I stand over that. They got the response completely wrong. It has been widely accepted.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on August 22, 2022, 06:46:26 PM
Free Lateral Flow testing ends in NI today.

Travel vaccine certificates will surely be done away with soon as well?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 23, 2022, 03:34:01 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 22, 2022, 06:46:26 PM
Free Lateral Flow testing ends in NI today.

Travel vaccine certificates will surely be done away with soon as well?

The vaccine was such a success. Where would I have been without it? Well I would not have been in the Pub without it! And I was not in the Pub. I also was not in the Restaurant!

Once again the vaccine was a great success, what ever it finally ended up doing. I could not keep up, as the bar for it efficiency kept getting lower every couple of weeks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on August 23, 2022, 06:31:04 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 23, 2022, 03:34:01 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on August 22, 2022, 06:46:26 PM
Free Lateral Flow testing ends in NI today.

Travel vaccine certificates will surely be done away with soon as well?

The vaccine was such a success. Where would I have been without it? Well I would not have been in the Pub without it! And I was not in the Pub. I also was not in the Restaurant!

Once again the vaccine was a great success, what ever it finally ended up doing. I could not keep up, as the bar for it efficiency kept getting lower every couple of weeks.

It prevented tens of  thousands of deaths which was precisely what is was intended to do. It is still preventing serious illness every day and keeping the numbers in hospitals down. Without it we'd still be in lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 23, 2022, 08:24:56 AM
Have a watch at this, it hopefully might give you some perspective. Some people believe they are fit and healthy enough and as long as we keep doing what the good doctor tells us everything will be grand. Plenty of data analysis.
https://youtu.be/OYH3DUanNFs


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 23, 2022, 10:38:39 AM
Quote from: trailer on August 22, 2022, 04:45:18 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 22, 2022, 04:35:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 05, 2020, 08:13:53 PM
You laugh at me because you see scientists and experts and you blindly follow. They know more than you. Deaths were unavoidable. This was out our control. But it's not. The deaths were and should've been avoided. The scientists got it wrong. The experts don't know. Remember the experts who predicted that there'd be a soft landing to housing bubble in 2007. The same banking experts. The smartest minds.
They don't know. They're making it up as they go along. I could study "the science" for 24 hours and I'd be better placed to make decisions on what to do rather than these clowns. They're overpaid failures. People who couldn't cut it in the real business world were failure is punished.

From the bunker - this is the same trailer that wrote this, some bluffer. He runs with the foxes & the hounds, depends which way the wind is blowing.  ;D

I stand over that. They got the response completely wrong. It has been widely accepted.

Yes, everyone at conspiracy.net and nutter.org accepts this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Harold Disgracey on August 23, 2022, 10:46:11 AM
This should be required reading.

The Irrational Ape: Why We Fall for Disinformation, Conspiracy Theory and Propaganda

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1471178285/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_V1GVXJ5T42136J0DXKJ3
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on August 23, 2022, 11:49:16 AM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on August 23, 2022, 10:46:11 AM
This should be required reading.

The Irrational Ape: Why We Fall for Disinformation, Conspiracy Theory and Propaganda

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1471178285/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_V1GVXJ5T42136J0DXKJ3

Is that the same fellow?

https://www.jospi.org/post/1304-experts-blast-david-robert-grimes-for-his-failure-to-understand-science-and-love-of-self-citation
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 23, 2022, 01:52:19 PM
It's just an opinion, no harm in reading it and making up your own mind.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on August 24, 2022, 05:59:45 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 01:27:15 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 22, 2022, 01:08:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 22, 2022, 12:31:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 22, 2022, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 12:05:28 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 22, 2022, 11:47:06 AM
Come on trueblue ......a drug which has data going back 40 years showing it is extremely safe was not worth trying (just to see given the lack of risk) when people are dying in IC wards? In war setting which it was ... this is exactly what should have happened.
Why would they when there was little evidence to say it was effective? We obviously differ in views but I see no reason why they would have started widespread delivery of ivermectin. You don't start prescribing a drug across the board without strong evidence of success. I don't understand how you don't get that.

It cracks me up the way these people cried bloody murder about an "untested vaccine" yet wanted to give ivermectin to the whole population!

Utter gobshites
Because there would have been little or no risk as the drug itself has been in use since the mid 80s and is known to be very safe, therefore worth a go. As opposed to new drugs costing billions and which the efficacy is not certain nor are all the side effects known. It should have been a matter of personal choice. If you are aged, frightened, obese(even a little), on the diabetic/metabolic spectrum you should probably take a punt on the new stuff and whatever else you can do to improve your lot for that matter.
The efficacy of the vaccine was proven. Some don't want to accept that, but the facts are out there. Ivermercim had nothing like the same success rates in any trials to date.

A very recent and major study has just been published in medical journals which shows that ivermectin was associated with higher mortality than not getting ivermectin ie it was worse than useless. That's why listening to non medical people isn't very smart but listening to experts is sensible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 24, 2022, 06:19:25 PM
Quote from: lenny on August 24, 2022, 05:59:45 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 01:27:15 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 22, 2022, 01:08:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 22, 2022, 12:31:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 22, 2022, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 12:05:28 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 22, 2022, 11:47:06 AM
Come on trueblue ......a drug which has data going back 40 years showing it is extremely safe was not worth trying (just to see given the lack of risk) when people are dying in IC wards? In war setting which it was ... this is exactly what should have happened.
Why would they when there was little evidence to say it was effective? We obviously differ in views but I see no reason why they would have started widespread delivery of ivermectin. You don't start prescribing a drug across the board without strong evidence of success. I don't understand how you don't get that.

It cracks me up the way these people cried bloody murder about an "untested vaccine" yet wanted to give ivermectin to the whole population!

Utter gobshites
Because there would have been little or no risk as the drug itself has been in use since the mid 80s and is known to be very safe, therefore worth a go. As opposed to new drugs costing billions and which the efficacy is not certain nor are all the side effects known. It should have been a matter of personal choice. If you are aged, frightened, obese(even a little), on the diabetic/metabolic spectrum you should probably take a punt on the new stuff and whatever else you can do to improve your lot for that matter.
The efficacy of the vaccine was proven. Some don't want to accept that, but the facts are out there. Ivermercim had nothing like the same success rates in any trials to date.

A very recent and major study has just been published in medical journals which shows that ivermectin was associated with higher mortality than not getting ivermectin ie it was worse than useless. That's why listening to non medical people isn't very smart but listening to experts is sensible.

It mind boggling that this is even up for "debate".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on August 24, 2022, 06:22:34 PM
It's how the world has become - pick a topic any topic from climate change to vaccines to ukraine / russia war to god knows what next  :(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 24, 2022, 07:59:02 PM
Yet the general population has never been so obese and metabolically unhealthy. Levels of chronic disease are at unprecedented levels. Go figure, but you boys keep listening to the good doctors and experts. If you still can't fit in the same size jeans when you were 18 then you are not putting your best foot forward. No doubt you've been following all the guidelines, doesn't make any sense does it. Getting old plus fat is not a just a fact of life.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on August 24, 2022, 08:26:54 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 24, 2022, 07:59:02 PM
Yet the general population has never been so obese and metabolically unhealthy. Levels of chronic disease are at unprecedented levels. Go figure, but you boys keep listening to the good doctors and experts. If you still can't fit in the same size jeans when you were 18 then you are not putting your best foot forward. No doubt you've been following all the guidelines, doesn't make any sense does it. Getting old plus fat is not a just a fact of life.

the doctors i listen too are smarter than doctors you listen too...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on August 24, 2022, 08:35:04 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 24, 2022, 07:59:02 PM
Yet the general population has never been so obese and metabolically unhealthy. Levels of chronic disease are at unprecedented levels. Go figure, but you boys keep listening to the good doctors and experts. If you still can't fit in the same size jeans when you were 18 then you are not putting your best foot forward. No doubt you've been following all the guidelines, doesn't make any sense does it. Getting old plus fat is not a just a fact of life.

Has anyone said that doctors and experts know "everything"?

Science, medical or otherwise, is about the knowledge that's accumulated to that point in time. Everything is up for correction and fine tuning as more data is accumulated.

Yet, they still know a lot more than the layperson on their chosen field. Which is the point. Whether what they're advocating turns out to be ultimately incomplete or actually wrong, it is still based on data and analysis. What is the "common sense" approach based on?

And things like public policy on food and so on are not just a function of public health science, unfortunately.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on August 24, 2022, 08:37:34 PM
Quote from: lenny on August 24, 2022, 05:59:45 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 01:27:15 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 22, 2022, 01:08:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 22, 2022, 12:31:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 22, 2022, 12:23:39 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 22, 2022, 12:05:28 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 22, 2022, 11:47:06 AM
Come on trueblue ......a drug which has data going back 40 years showing it is extremely safe was not worth trying (just to see given the lack of risk) when people are dying in IC wards? In war setting which it was ... this is exactly what should have happened.
Why would they when there was little evidence to say it was effective? We obviously differ in views but I see no reason why they would have started widespread delivery of ivermectin. You don't start prescribing a drug across the board without strong evidence of success. I don't understand how you don't get that.

It cracks me up the way these people cried bloody murder about an "untested vaccine" yet wanted to give ivermectin to the whole population!

Utter gobshites
Because there would have been little or no risk as the drug itself has been in use since the mid 80s and is known to be very safe, therefore worth a go. As opposed to new drugs costing billions and which the efficacy is not certain nor are all the side effects known. It should have been a matter of personal choice. If you are aged, frightened, obese(even a little), on the diabetic/metabolic spectrum you should probably take a punt on the new stuff and whatever else you can do to improve your lot for that matter.
The efficacy of the vaccine was proven. Some don't want to accept that, but the facts are out there. Ivermercim had nothing like the same success rates in any trials to date.

A very recent and major study has just been published in medical journals which shows that ivermectin was associated with higher mortality than not getting ivermectin ie it was worse than useless. That's why listening to non medical people isn't very smart but listening to experts is sensible.

There is a whole host of studies of Ivermectin and Covid 19 treatments both for and against.
    I would wait for the findings of the NHS backed Oxford University Principle Trial, before making any definitive conclusions on its use in relation to Covid 19 treatment. I'm not advocating its use btw, but as you say, wait for the expert's opinion after this trial is complete.

https://www.principletrial.org/news
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 24, 2022, 09:05:06 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 24, 2022, 08:26:54 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 24, 2022, 07:59:02 PM
Yet the general population has never been so obese and metabolically unhealthy. Levels of chronic disease are at unprecedented levels. Go figure, but you boys keep listening to the good doctors and experts. If you still can't fit in the same size jeans when you were 18 then you are not putting your best foot forward. No doubt you've been following all the guidelines, doesn't make any sense does it. Getting old plus fat is not a just a fact of life.

the doctors i listen too are smarter than doctors you listen too...
;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 24, 2022, 09:12:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 24, 2022, 08:35:04 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 24, 2022, 07:59:02 PM
Yet the general population has never been so obese and metabolically unhealthy. Levels of chronic disease are at unprecedented levels. Go figure, but you boys keep listening to the good doctors and experts. If you still can't fit in the same size jeans when you were 18 then you are not putting your best foot forward. No doubt you've been following all the guidelines, doesn't make any sense does it. Getting old plus fat is not a just a fact of life.

Has anyone said that doctors and experts know "everything"?

Science, medical or otherwise, is about the knowledge that's accumulated to that point in time. Everything is up for correction and fine tuning as more data is accumulated.

Yet, they still know a lot more than the layperson on their chosen field. Which is the point. Whether what they're advocating turns out to be ultimately incomplete or actually wrong, it is still based on data and analysis. What is the "common sense" approach based on?

And things like public policy on food and so on are not just a function of public health science, unfortunately.
Turns out that the data and analysis bit is not really on point, unfortunately it's like turning a supertanker to get many of these people to change tack. But hey if you are happy with the current standard full your boots.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on August 24, 2022, 09:34:56 PM
Were doctors in Ireland paid per patient for vaccinations ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 24, 2022, 09:59:10 PM
Nobody could blame Doctors, Pharmacists and Nurses for the vaccine. They were only administrators of the vaccine. They knew little above the basics of what they are giving out. How could they know otherwise? Any Doctor who says otherwise is sort of bluffing. They had to be as the Pharmaceutical companies provided them with little detail as they had a confidentiality clause.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 24, 2022, 10:25:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 24, 2022, 09:59:10 PM
Nobody could blame Doctors, Pharmacists and Nurses for the vaccine. They were only administrators of the vaccine. They knew little above the basics of what they are giving out. How could they know otherwise? Any Doctor who says otherwise is sort of bluffing. They had to be as the Pharmaceutical companies provided them with little detail as they had a confidentiality clause.
Any word of the rates of pay for the administrators. Will those accounts ever be published?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 24, 2022, 10:50:59 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 24, 2022, 10:25:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 24, 2022, 09:59:10 PM
Nobody could blame Doctors, Pharmacists and Nurses for the vaccine. They were only administrators of the vaccine. They knew little above the basics of what they are giving out. How could they know otherwise? Any Doctor who says otherwise is sort of bluffing. They had to be as the Pharmaceutical companies provided them with little detail as they had a confidentiality clause.
Any word of the rates of pay for the administrators. Will those accounts ever be published?

Of course they were on the gravy train. Nobody is going to look at those accounts, they were doing their Patriotic Duty with a handsome financial handshake.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 24, 2022, 11:02:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 24, 2022, 09:34:56 PM
Were doctors in Ireland paid per patient for vaccinations ?

In the 26 counties yes , they were also paid per patient for Covid cases.
Doctors did modest numbers of vaccinations, mainly people over 70.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 24, 2022, 11:25:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 24, 2022, 11:02:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 24, 2022, 09:34:56 PM
Were doctors in Ireland paid per patient for vaccinations ?

In the 26 counties yes , they were also paid per patient for Covid cases.
Doctors did modest numbers of vaccinations, mainly people over 70.

Yes, they modestly bombarded us in the south with text messages of their services.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on August 25, 2022, 10:19:13 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 24, 2022, 09:34:56 PM
Were doctors in Ireland paid per patient for vaccinations ?

I think its laid out in this document.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/gmscontracts/2019agreement/circular-to-gps-vaccination-programme-nco-02-2021.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiYneCS1OH5AhUyS0EAHSFrAkwQFnoECAQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1268ZGzOtfBTYIzebeW-Wt


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on August 25, 2022, 12:36:51 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 24, 2022, 11:25:23 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 24, 2022, 11:02:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 24, 2022, 09:34:56 PM
Were doctors in Ireland paid per patient for vaccinations ?

In the 26 counties yes , they were also paid per patient for Covid cases.
Doctors did modest numbers of vaccinations, mainly people over 70.

Yes, they modestly bombarded us in the south with text messages of their services.

Speak for yourself, I did not receive any text message from my GP.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on August 26, 2022, 02:13:14 PM
Video by John Campbell (who has over 2.4 million subscribers) - that ever so lightly touches on the possibility that the covid vaccines may have caused some UK deaths. YouTube removed the video and the main stream media are making no real noise about getting to the bottom of these excess death numbers. Surely everyone should be interested in getting to the bottom of this data signal  :-\

https://www.bitchute.com/embed/nluYnAcVbzBF/ (https://www.bitchute.com/embed/nluYnAcVbzBF/)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on August 26, 2022, 02:32:57 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 26, 2022, 02:13:14 PM
Video by John Campbell (who has over 2.4 million subscribers) - that ever so lightly touches on the possibility that the covid vaccines may have caused some UK deaths. YouTube removed the video and the main stream media are making no real noise about getting to the bottom of these excess death numbers. Surely everyone should be interested in getting to the bottom of this data signal  :-\

https://www.bitchute.com/embed/nluYnAcVbzBF/ (https://www.bitchute.com/embed/nluYnAcVbzBF/)

Most scientists are investigating and the evidence points to the excess deaths being caused by covid. Even people who seem to have recovered from supposedly mild cases have had coronary issues months later and also clotting issues. These things were happening well before the vaccine also.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on August 26, 2022, 02:44:04 PM
The data should be there to show the similar(ish) outcomes between vaccinated and ununvaccinated across age groups I would have thought. No?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on August 26, 2022, 03:05:17 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 26, 2022, 02:44:04 PM
The data should be there to show the similar(ish) outcomes between vaccinated and ununvaccinated across age groups I would have thought. No?

not John Campbell again!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 26, 2022, 04:55:47 PM
Excess deaths warrant some discussion surely! He has his opinion and in fairness he comes across as pretty knowledgable and well able to interpret the available data. I would prefer to see someone put their hand up to debate the points with him rather than censor him out of hand. Leave it up to us to decide who makes the most compelling argument. Istead I am left feeling that something stinks with this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on August 26, 2022, 05:34:26 PM
knowledgeable, you have having a laugh.. I watched two of his videos and he constantly contradicts himself, full of conjecture and bias opinions not backed up by anything, he was big on invermectin in Japan too...

any idea why merck the makers of Invermectin spend money on an actual covid treatment and not push their own product invermecin!! big pharma out to get us unless if lts invermectin!!!

I'm not being dragged into this shite again... I'm out
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 26, 2022, 08:35:25 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 26, 2022, 05:34:26 PM
knowledgeable, you have having a laugh.. I watched two of his videos and he constantly contradicts himself, full of conjecture and bias opinions not backed up by anything, he was big on invermectin in Japan too...

any idea why merck the makers of Invermectin spend money on an actual covid treatment and not push their own product invermecin!! big pharma out to get us unless if lts invermectin!!!

I'm not being dragged into this shite again... I'm out
You'd need to ask an accountant that question, one would be considerably more lucrative than the other. That's conjecture on my part though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2022, 08:42:23 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 26, 2022, 08:35:25 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 26, 2022, 05:34:26 PM
knowledgeable, you have having a laugh.. I watched two of his videos and he constantly contradicts himself, full of conjecture and bias opinions not backed up by anything, he was big on invermectin in Japan too...

any idea why merck the makers of Invermectin spend money on an actual covid treatment and not push their own product invermecin!! big pharma out to get us unless if lts invermectin!!!

I'm not being dragged into this shite again... I'm out
You'd need to ask an accountant that question, one would be considerably more lucrative than the other. That's conjecture on my part though.
Ivermectin was an established drug that wouldn't have to go through the extensive trials a new drug vaccine would have to. They could have blown all competitors out of the water if they were able to prove its value in treatment of covid (As an aside to a vaccine). That didn't happen.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on August 26, 2022, 08:47:41 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 26, 2022, 05:34:26 PM
knowledgeable, you have having a laugh.. I watched two of his videos and he constantly contradicts himself, full of conjecture and bias opinions not backed up by anything, he was big on invermectin in Japan too...

any idea why merck the makers of Invermectin spend money on an actual covid treatment and not push their own product invermecin!! big pharma out to get us unless if lts invermectin!!!

I'm not being dragged into this shite again... I'm out
Merck's patent on ivermectin expired in 1996, though it was extended for different periods in various countries. Thus, other companies' ivermectin preparations are now commercially available.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on August 26, 2022, 09:43:08 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on August 26, 2022, 08:42:23 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 26, 2022, 08:35:25 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on August 26, 2022, 05:34:26 PM
knowledgeable, you have having a laugh.. I watched two of his videos and he constantly contradicts himself, full of conjecture and bias opinions not backed up by anything, he was big on invermectin in Japan too...

any idea why merck the makers of Invermectin spend money on an actual covid treatment and not push their own product invermecin!! big pharma out to get us unless if lts invermectin!!!

I'm not being dragged into this shite again... I'm out
You'd need to ask an accountant that question, one would be considerably more lucrative than the other. That's conjecture on my part though.
Ivermectin was an established drug that wouldn't have to go through the extensive trials a new drug vaccine would have to. They could have blown all competitors out of the water if they were able to prove its value in treatment of covid (As an aside to a vaccine). That didn't happen.

Merck's patent on ivermectin expired in 1996. Many companies produce their own version for sale now. 
       Molnupiravir is their big covid 19 treatment hope. £5.5 billion in annual sales.

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/merck-has-big-revenue-quarter-thanks-part-surprisingly-strong-sales-covid-pills
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on August 26, 2022, 09:46:44 PM
Ivermectin for stock; mRNA vaccines for humans.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on August 26, 2022, 10:18:36 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 26, 2022, 09:46:44 PM
Ivermectin for stock; mRNA vaccines for humans.

Or more accurately

Ivermectin for stock & humans ; mRNA vaccines for humans and Stock

;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on August 26, 2022, 10:31:54 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on August 26, 2022, 10:37:56 PM
or maybe drugs used for their on label purpose which have been  approved by the revelant health authority.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on August 26, 2022, 10:44:35 PM

Yesterday, upon the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
I wish, I wish he'd go away...

When I came home last night at three
The man was waiting there for me
But when I looked around the hall
I couldn't see him there at all!
Go away, go away, don't you come back any more!
Go away, go away, and please don't slam the door... (slam!)

Last night I saw upon the stair
A little man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
Oh, how I wish he'd go away...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on August 26, 2022, 10:45:50 PM
Actually to defend ' big Pharma '

Merck have been donating Ivermectin in the form of Mectizan for over 35 years to treat river blindness. It was (and still is) one of the biggest ppp ( involving a pharmaceutical company) of all time.

https://www.merck.com/stories/mectizan/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on August 27, 2022, 08:33:31 PM
Quote from: Last Man on August 26, 2022, 04:55:47 PM
Excess deaths warrant some discussion surely! He has his opinion and in fairness he comes across as pretty knowledgable and well able to interpret the available data. I would prefer to see someone put their hand up to debate the points with him rather than censor him out of hand. Leave it up to us to decide who makes the most compelling argument. Istead I am left feeling that something stinks with this.

In relation to excess deaths in the UK, I thought this article is fairly balanced.
   
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-62648951.amp

Multi-factorial obviously, but deeply worrying failures in the health service in terms of diagnosis and treatment.
I'd assume there will be very similar trends in the Irish Health care system.
 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 11, 2022, 11:20:08 PM
You won't see this on government funded RTE.

https://twitter.com/Rob_Roos/status/1579759795225198593 (https://twitter.com/Rob_Roos/status/1579759795225198593)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 11, 2022, 11:29:57 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 11, 2022, 11:20:08 PM
You won't see this on government funded RTE.

https://twitter.com/Rob_Roos/status/1579759795225198593 (https://twitter.com/Rob_Roos/status/1579759795225198593)

Why should you see it on RTÉ?
(p.s. you do know that the government is appointed by us?)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 11, 2022, 11:59:27 PM
Rob Roos a shady looking character from far right wing political party in the Netherlands chatting with Tucker Carlson tonight is sure to be compelling...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on October 12, 2022, 12:05:52 AM
Never easy to admit you were scammed or lied to and fell for it .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on October 12, 2022, 03:18:48 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 26, 2022, 02:44:04 PM
The data should be there to show the similar(ish) outcomes between vaccinated and ununvaccinated across age groups I would have thought. No?

There were excess deaths long before the vaccine roll out, so whilst I get the concerns about rolling out a vaccine in double quick time was it worth that risk is the question that needs answered..

Originally when the vaccines were being rolled out there was a figure being bandied about that over 50% of those in Intensive Care were unvaccinated which on the face of it seems to suggest a 50/50 split in the population but at that time over 80% of the UK population was vaccinated.
Doing the math would suggest of the 20% you'd a much higher chance of being admitted to the ICU than the 80% who were vaccinated.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 12, 2022, 04:08:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 12, 2022, 03:18:48 PM
Doing the math would suggest of the 20% you'd a much higher chance of being admitted to the ICU than the 80% who were vaccinated.

Some people seem to find math challenging, unless you owe them money.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Man Marker on October 12, 2022, 04:20:24 PM
So, the narrative of take the covid jab and protect your grand parents has been proven to be bollix
the narrative of take the covid jab prevent transmission has been proven to be bollix
forcing it on all age groups jabs been proven to be bollix with many countries banning the covid jab for young men due to its risk.
And lets face it, more revelations are on the way.

There is some amount of people who just believe what they are told and don't question. We were fed lies and untruths. And the worst part is that, of the covid jab that did work i.e., protect people from serious illness or death, many many people going forward will be so sceptical of its benefits due to the lies and won't take it. Thank god I have an analytical mind and ask questions before taking anything i.e., if it's to good to be true, then its never true.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 12, 2022, 04:36:18 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on October 12, 2022, 04:20:24 PM
So, the narrative of take the covid jab and protect your grand parents has been proven to be bollix False
the narrative of take the covid jab prevent transmission has been proven to be bollix false
forcing it on all age groups jabs been proven to be bollix with many countries banning the covid jab for young men due to its risk. false
And lets face it, more revelations are on the way.

There is some amount of people who just believe what they are told and don't question. We were fed lies and untruths. And the worst part is that, of the covid jab that did work i.e., protect people from serious illness or death, many many people going forward will be so sceptical of its benefits due to the lies and won't take it. Thank god I have an analytical mind and ask questions before taking anything i.e., if it's to good to be true, then its never true.

the only thing that is Bollox is your take.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AustinPowers on October 12, 2022, 04:39:43 PM
We were all  scammed , to different extents .  From wearing masks , social distancing, not allowing people into our houses, taking multiple jabs  etc etc

They kept people constantly in fear so they  could sell them their covid narrative and of course, their vaccines   Destroying lives, businesses and mental healths. in the process

Going forward,  many many people will not believe a word they're told .  They've lost people's trust, it's gone. Big pharma , government, politicians, WHO,  media, - they've shot themselves in the foot.  It's over

It's no  wonder  around the world politics is changing with the electing    so called extreme parties/politicians .  More and more people are realising  those in power can't be trusted.  Take the current Tories , I've never witnessed a bigger pile  of gangsters.  Those f**kers should be all locked up , and  never again should they get within an  asses roar of Downing Street . Their antics has pushed Scotland closer to independence and a UI as  well .  Those EU gangsters are no better
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on October 12, 2022, 05:08:57 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 11, 2022, 11:20:08 PM
You won't see this on government funded RTE.

https://twitter.com/Rob_Roos/status/1579759795225198593 (https://twitter.com/Rob_Roos/status/1579759795225198593)

This is truly shocking alright - no, wait ...........

Dec 2020- https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vaccine-immunity-e-idINKBN28I0OK

QuoteClinical trials so far have not been designed to determine if an immunized person can still spread the coronavirus to someone else. Some vaccines, such as hepatitis A, do provide such protection - known as sterilizing immunity - but others do not. COVID-19 vaccine makers focused trials on determining whether the drug stopped people from becoming ill.

Dec 2020 - https://www.jpost.com/health-science/pfizer-chairman-unsure-if-covid-vaccine-prevents-transmission-to-others-651184

QuotePfizer chairman Albert Bourla said on Thursday that the pharmaceutical company is unsure whether the coronavirus vaccine could prevent a person from transmitting the virus, The Hill reported.

The comment was made to Dateline host Lester Holt during a prime-time special titled "Race for a Vaccine" wherein Holt questioned individuals involved in development and distribution of the coronavirus vaccine.

Holt asked Bourla if being vaccinated for the virus meant he could still transmit it to others.

"I think this is something that needs to be examined. We are not certain about that right now with what we know," Bourla responded.

Dec 2020 - https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-takes-key-action-fight-against-covid-19-issuing-emergency-use-authorization-first-covid-19

QuoteAt this time, data are not available to make a determination about how long the vaccine will provide protection, nor is there evidence that the vaccine prevents transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from person to person.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on October 12, 2022, 05:26:07 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on October 12, 2022, 04:20:24 PM
So, the narrative of take the covid jab and protect your grand parents has been proven to be bollix
the narrative of take the covid jab prevent transmission has been proven to be bollix
forcing it on all age groups jabs been proven to be bollix with many countries banning the covid jab for young men due to its risk.
And lets face it, more revelations are on the way.

There is some amount of people who just believe what they are told and don't question. We were fed lies and untruths. And the worst part is that, of the covid jab that did work i.e., protect people from serious illness or death, many many people going forward will be so sceptical of its benefits due to the lies and won't take it. Thank god I have an analytical mind and ask questions before taking anything i.e., if it's to good to be true, then its never true.

Jesus we would never have guessed
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on October 12, 2022, 05:31:08 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2022, 04:39:43 PM
We were all  scammed , to different extents .  From wearing masks , social distancing, not allowing people into our houses, taking multiple jabs  etc etc

They kept people constantly in fear so they  could sell them their covid narrative and of course, their vaccines   Destroying lives, businesses and mental healths. in the process

Going forward,  many many people will not believe a word they're told .  They've lost people's trust, it's gone. Big pharma , government, politicians, WHO,  media, - they've shot themselves in the foot.  It's over

It's no  wonder  around the world politics is changing with the electing    so called extreme parties/politicians .  More and more people are realising  those in power can't be trusted.  Take the current Tories , I've never witnessed a bigger pile  of gangsters.  Those f**kers should be all locked up , and  never again should they get within an  asses roar of Downing Street . Their antics has pushed Scotland closer to independence and a UI as  well .  Those EU gangsters are no better

Neither agreeing or disagreeing with you Austin, arguing or falling out with folk is a complete waste of energy for all concerned... But how is it over for Big Pharma? I had my annual flu jab today washed down with some paracetamol. My father is on daily meds to keep him vertical. I've manys a family member / friends on meds, ranging from cancer to diabetes... Who will provide this if not big pharmaceutical companies?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on October 12, 2022, 05:35:47 PM
Everywhere even here they keep doubting down , never admit they were hoodwinked.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2022, 05:43:22 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 12, 2022, 05:08:57 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 11, 2022, 11:20:08 PM
You won't see this on government funded RTE.

https://twitter.com/Rob_Roos/status/1579759795225198593 (https://twitter.com/Rob_Roos/status/1579759795225198593)

This is truly shocking alright - no, wait ...........

Dec 2020- https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vaccine-immunity-e-idINKBN28I0OK

QuoteClinical trials so far have not been designed to determine if an immunized person can still spread the coronavirus to someone else. Some vaccines, such as hepatitis A, do provide such protection - known as sterilizing immunity - but others do not. COVID-19 vaccine makers focused trials on determining whether the drug stopped people from becoming ill.

Dec 2020 - https://www.jpost.com/health-science/pfizer-chairman-unsure-if-covid-vaccine-prevents-transmission-to-others-651184

QuotePfizer chairman Albert Bourla said on Thursday that the pharmaceutical company is unsure whether the coronavirus vaccine could prevent a person from transmitting the virus, The Hill reported.

The comment was made to Dateline host Lester Holt during a prime-time special titled "Race for a Vaccine" wherein Holt questioned individuals involved in development and distribution of the coronavirus vaccine.

Holt asked Bourla if being vaccinated for the virus meant he could still transmit it to others.

"I think this is something that needs to be examined. We are not certain about that right now with what we know," Bourla responded.

Dec 2020 - https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-takes-key-action-fight-against-covid-19-issuing-emergency-use-authorization-first-covid-19

QuoteAt this time, data are not available to make a determination about how long the vaccine will provide protection, nor is there evidence that the vaccine prevents transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from person to person.

These guys must be part of the Grand Conspiracy:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2116597 (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2116597)

Despite their findings (Feb 2022) that transmission reduction declined with the delta variant compared to the alpha.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2022, 06:34:59 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 12, 2022, 05:31:08 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2022, 04:39:43 PM
We were all  scammed , to different extents .  From wearing masks , social distancing, not allowing people into our houses, taking multiple jabs  etc etc

They kept people constantly in fear so they  could sell them their covid narrative and of course, their vaccines   Destroying lives, businesses and mental healths. in the process

Going forward,  many many people will not believe a word they're told .  They've lost people's trust, it's gone. Big pharma , government, politicians, WHO,  media, - they've shot themselves in the foot.  It's over

It's no  wonder  around the world politics is changing with the electing    so called extreme parties/politicians .  More and more people are realising  those in power can't be trusted.  Take the current Tories , I've never witnessed a bigger pile  of gangsters.  Those f**kers should be all locked up , and  never again should they get within an  asses roar of Downing Street . Their antics has pushed Scotland closer to independence and a UI as  well .  Those EU gangsters are no better

Neither agreeing or disagreeing with you Austin, arguing or falling out with folk is a complete waste of energy for all concerned... But how is it over for Big Pharma? I had my annual flu jab today washed down with some paracetamol. My father is on daily meds to keep him vertical. I've manys a family member / friends on meds, ranging from cancer to diabetes... Who will provide this if not big pharmaceutical companies?

Exactly.

They wreaked havoc in the US with oxycotin, but they also allow people to live longer than ever before despite a range of chronic ailments that would have killed them in earlier generations.

They're all bastards, but what giant corporations and industries aren't? You want the unfettered capitalism and globalization which brings us all the cheap equipment and technology and medicine we now rely on in our modern lives, Big Pharma is part of the package, along with Big Oil/Gas and Big Healthcare and Big Auto and Big Agri and Big Telecommunications etc. There aren't too many Yvon Chounairds around.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on October 12, 2022, 06:35:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2022, 05:43:22 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 12, 2022, 05:08:57 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 11, 2022, 11:20:08 PM
You won't see this on government funded RTE.

https://twitter.com/Rob_Roos/status/1579759795225198593 (https://twitter.com/Rob_Roos/status/1579759795225198593)

This is truly shocking alright - no, wait ...........

Dec 2020- https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vaccine-immunity-e-idINKBN28I0OK

QuoteClinical trials so far have not been designed to determine if an immunized person can still spread the coronavirus to someone else. Some vaccines, such as hepatitis A, do provide such protection - known as sterilizing immunity - but others do not. COVID-19 vaccine makers focused trials on determining whether the drug stopped people from becoming ill.

Dec 2020 - https://www.jpost.com/health-science/pfizer-chairman-unsure-if-covid-vaccine-prevents-transmission-to-others-651184

QuotePfizer chairman Albert Bourla said on Thursday that the pharmaceutical company is unsure whether the coronavirus vaccine could prevent a person from transmitting the virus, The Hill reported.

The comment was made to Dateline host Lester Holt during a prime-time special titled "Race for a Vaccine" wherein Holt questioned individuals involved in development and distribution of the coronavirus vaccine.

Holt asked Bourla if being vaccinated for the virus meant he could still transmit it to others.

"I think this is something that needs to be examined. We are not certain about that right now with what we know," Bourla responded.

Dec 2020 - https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-takes-key-action-fight-against-covid-19-issuing-emergency-use-authorization-first-covid-19

QuoteAt this time, data are not available to make a determination about how long the vaccine will provide protection, nor is there evidence that the vaccine prevents transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from person to person.

These guys must be part of the Grand Conspiracy:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2116597 (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2116597)

Despite their findings (Feb 2022) that transmission reduction declined with the delta variant compared to the alpha.

There is no grand conspiracy. Big Pharma just ' sexed up the dossier ' to sell more product.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on October 12, 2022, 06:38:03 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 12, 2022, 06:35:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2022, 05:43:22 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 12, 2022, 05:08:57 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 11, 2022, 11:20:08 PM
You won't see this on government funded RTE.

https://twitter.com/Rob_Roos/status/1579759795225198593 (https://twitter.com/Rob_Roos/status/1579759795225198593)

This is truly shocking alright - no, wait ...........

Dec 2020- https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vaccine-immunity-e-idINKBN28I0OK

QuoteClinical trials so far have not been designed to determine if an immunized person can still spread the coronavirus to someone else. Some vaccines, such as hepatitis A, do provide such protection - known as sterilizing immunity - but others do not. COVID-19 vaccine makers focused trials on determining whether the drug stopped people from becoming ill.

Dec 2020 - https://www.jpost.com/health-science/pfizer-chairman-unsure-if-covid-vaccine-prevents-transmission-to-others-651184

QuotePfizer chairman Albert Bourla said on Thursday that the pharmaceutical company is unsure whether the coronavirus vaccine could prevent a person from transmitting the virus, The Hill reported.

The comment was made to Dateline host Lester Holt during a prime-time special titled "Race for a Vaccine" wherein Holt questioned individuals involved in development and distribution of the coronavirus vaccine.

Holt asked Bourla if being vaccinated for the virus meant he could still transmit it to others.

"I think this is something that needs to be examined. We are not certain about that right now with what we know," Bourla responded.

Dec 2020 - https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-takes-key-action-fight-against-covid-19-issuing-emergency-use-authorization-first-covid-19

QuoteAt this time, data are not available to make a determination about how long the vaccine will provide protection, nor is there evidence that the vaccine prevents transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from person to person.

These guys must be part of the Grand Conspiracy:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2116597 (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2116597)

Despite their findings (Feb 2022) that transmission reduction declined with the delta variant compared to the alpha.

There is no grand conspiracy. Big Pharma just ' sexed up the dossier ' to sell more product.

Examples?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: CK_Redhand on October 12, 2022, 06:56:08 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on October 12, 2022, 05:26:07 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on October 12, 2022, 04:20:24 PM
So, the narrative of take the covid jab and protect your grand parents has been proven to be bollix
the narrative of take the covid jab prevent transmission has been proven to be bollix
forcing it on all age groups jabs been proven to be bollix with many countries banning the covid jab for young men due to its risk.
And lets face it, more revelations are on the way.

There is some amount of people who just believe what they are told and don't question. We were fed lies and untruths. And the worst part is that, of the covid jab that did work i.e., protect people from serious illness or death, many many people going forward will be so sceptical of its benefits due to the lies and won't take it. Thank god I have an analytical mind and ask questions before taking anything i.e., if it's to good to be true, then its never true.

Jesus we would never have guessed
The bolded line is a contradiction in terms surely?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AustinPowers on October 12, 2022, 06:57:48 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 12, 2022, 05:31:08 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2022, 04:39:43 PM
We were all  scammed , to different extents .  From wearing masks , social distancing, not allowing people into our houses, taking multiple jabs  etc etc

They kept people constantly in fear so they  could sell them their covid narrative and of course, their vaccines   Destroying lives, businesses and mental healths. in the process

Going forward,  many many people will not believe a word they're told .  They've lost people's trust, it's gone. Big pharma , government, politicians, WHO,  media, - they've shot themselves in the foot.  It's over

It's no  wonder  around the world politics is changing with the electing    so called extreme parties/politicians .  More and more people are realising  those in power can't be trusted.  Take the current Tories , I've never witnessed a bigger pile  of gangsters.  Those f**kers should be all locked up , and  never again should they get within an  asses roar of Downing Street . Their antics has pushed Scotland closer to independence and a UI as  well .  Those EU gangsters are no better

Neither agreeing or disagreeing with you Austin, arguing or falling out with folk is a complete waste of energy for all concerned... But how is it over for Big Pharma? I had my annual flu jab today washed down with some paracetamol. My father is on daily meds to keep him vertical. I've manys a family member / friends on meds, ranging from cancer to diabetes... Who will provide this if not big pharmaceutical companies?

It's over as far as covid and that  monkey tennis virus  is concerned .  More and  more people  are saying they're done with  vaccines , as well as  listening to  their fear mongering .
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on October 12, 2022, 08:04:49 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2022, 06:57:48 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 12, 2022, 05:31:08 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2022, 04:39:43 PM
We were all  scammed , to different extents .  From wearing masks , social distancing, not allowing people into our houses, taking multiple jabs  etc etc

They kept people constantly in fear so they  could sell them their covid narrative and of course, their vaccines   Destroying lives, businesses and mental healths. in the process

Going forward,  many many people will not believe a word they're told .  They've lost people's trust, it's gone. Big pharma , government, politicians, WHO,  media, - they've shot themselves in the foot.  It's over

It's no  wonder  around the world politics is changing with the electing    so called extreme parties/politicians .  More and more people are realising  those in power can't be trusted.  Take the current Tories , I've never witnessed a bigger pile  of gangsters.  Those f**kers should be all locked up , and  never again should they get within an  asses roar of Downing Street . Their antics has pushed Scotland closer to independence and a UI as  well .  Those EU gangsters are no better

Neither agreeing or disagreeing with you Austin, arguing or falling out with folk is a complete waste of energy for all concerned... But how is it over for Big Pharma? I had my annual flu jab today washed down with some paracetamol. My father is on daily meds to keep him vertical. I've manys a family member / friends on meds, ranging from cancer to diabetes... Who will provide this if not big pharmaceutical companies?

It's over as far as covid and that  monkey tennis virus  is concerned .  More and  more people  are saying they're done with  vaccines , as well as  listening to  their fear mongering .

Covid is certainly not over. Nobody is forcing you to take the vaccine but you're leaving yourself much more likely to get sick. That's up to you if you don't believe in science or worse still you believe some of those attention seeking pseudoscientists from the internet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AustinPowers on October 12, 2022, 08:16:39 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 12, 2022, 08:04:49 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2022, 06:57:48 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 12, 2022, 05:31:08 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2022, 04:39:43 PM
We were all  scammed , to different extents .  From wearing masks , social distancing, not allowing people into our houses, taking multiple jabs  etc etc

They kept people constantly in fear so they  could sell them their covid narrative and of course, their vaccines   Destroying lives, businesses and mental healths. in the process

Going forward,  many many people will not believe a word they're told .  They've lost people's trust, it's gone. Big pharma , government, politicians, WHO,  media, - they've shot themselves in the foot.  It's over

It's no  wonder  around the world politics is changing with the electing    so called extreme parties/politicians .  More and more people are realising  those in power can't be trusted.  Take the current Tories , I've never witnessed a bigger pile  of gangsters.  Those f**kers should be all locked up , and  never again should they get within an  asses roar of Downing Street . Their antics has pushed Scotland closer to independence and a UI as  well .  Those EU gangsters are no better

Neither agreeing or disagreeing with you Austin, arguing or falling out with folk is a complete waste of energy for all concerned... But how is it over for Big Pharma? I had my annual flu jab today washed down with some paracetamol. My father is on daily meds to keep him vertical. I've manys a family member / friends on meds, ranging from cancer to diabetes... Who will provide this if not big pharmaceutical companies?

It's over as far as covid and that  monkey tennis virus  is concerned .  More and  more people  are saying they're done with  vaccines , as well as  listening to  their fear mongering .

Covid is certainly not over. Nobody is forcing you to take the vaccine but you're leaving yourself much more likely to get sick. That's up to you if you don't believe in science or worse still you believe some of those attention seeking pseudoscientists from the internet.

No I didn't mean the virus is over , only from my own experience talking with people  that a lot of them   seem to be finished with taking vaccines  and listening to the scaremongering .  And tbh I don't blame them
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on October 12, 2022, 08:23:39 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2022, 08:16:39 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 12, 2022, 08:04:49 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2022, 06:57:48 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 12, 2022, 05:31:08 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2022, 04:39:43 PM
We were all  scammed , to different extents .  From wearing masks , social distancing, not allowing people into our houses, taking multiple jabs  etc etc

They kept people constantly in fear so they  could sell them their covid narrative and of course, their vaccines   Destroying lives, businesses and mental healths. in the process

Going forward,  many many people will not believe a word they're told .  They've lost people's trust, it's gone. Big pharma , government, politicians, WHO,  media, - they've shot themselves in the foot.  It's over

It's no  wonder  around the world politics is changing with the electing    so called extreme parties/politicians .  More and more people are realising  those in power can't be trusted.  Take the current Tories , I've never witnessed a bigger pile  of gangsters.  Those f**kers should be all locked up , and  never again should they get within an  asses roar of Downing Street . Their antics has pushed Scotland closer to independence and a UI as  well .  Those EU gangsters are no better

Neither agreeing or disagreeing with you Austin, arguing or falling out with folk is a complete waste of energy for all concerned... But how is it over for Big Pharma? I had my annual flu jab today washed down with some paracetamol. My father is on daily meds to keep him vertical. I've manys a family member / friends on meds, ranging from cancer to diabetes... Who will provide this if not big pharmaceutical companies?

It's over as far as covid and that  monkey tennis virus  is concerned .  More and  more people  are saying they're done with  vaccines , as well as  listening to  their fear mongering .

Covid is certainly not over. Nobody is forcing you to take the vaccine but you're leaving yourself much more likely to get sick. That's up to you if you don't believe in science or worse still you believe some of those attention seeking pseudoscientists from the internet.

No I didn't mean the virus is over , only from my own experience talking with people  that a lot of them   seem to be finished with taking vaccines  and listening to the scaremongering .  And tbh I don't blame them

As I said that's up to them, I'm seeing much of the same. People with 3 vaccines already will have some protection. The people I'd really worry about are the idiots who haven't got any vaccines yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on October 12, 2022, 08:26:25 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 12, 2022, 08:23:39 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2022, 08:16:39 PM
Quote from: lenny on October 12, 2022, 08:04:49 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2022, 06:57:48 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on October 12, 2022, 05:31:08 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on October 12, 2022, 04:39:43 PM
We were all  scammed , to different extents .  From wearing masks , social distancing, not allowing people into our houses, taking multiple jabs  etc etc

They kept people constantly in fear so they  could sell them their covid narrative and of course, their vaccines   Destroying lives, businesses and mental healths. in the process

Going forward,  many many people will not believe a word they're told .  They've lost people's trust, it's gone. Big pharma , government, politicians, WHO,  media, - they've shot themselves in the foot.  It's over

It's no  wonder  around the world politics is changing with the electing    so called extreme parties/politicians .  More and more people are realising  those in power can't be trusted.  Take the current Tories , I've never witnessed a bigger pile  of gangsters.  Those f**kers should be all locked up , and  never again should they get within an  asses roar of Downing Street . Their antics has pushed Scotland closer to independence and a UI as  well .  Those EU gangsters are no better

Neither agreeing or disagreeing with you Austin, arguing or falling out with folk is a complete waste of energy for all concerned... But how is it over for Big Pharma? I had my annual flu jab today washed down with some paracetamol. My father is on daily meds to keep him vertical. I've manys a family member / friends on meds, ranging from cancer to diabetes... Who will provide this if not big pharmaceutical companies?

It's over as far as covid and that  monkey tennis virus  is concerned .  More and  more people  are saying they're done with  vaccines , as well as  listening to  their fear mongering .

Covid is certainly not over. Nobody is forcing you to take the vaccine but you're leaving yourself much more likely to get sick. That's up to you if you don't believe in science or worse still you believe some of those attention seeking pseudoscientists from the internet.

No I didn't mean the virus is over , only from my own experience talking with people  that a lot of them   seem to be finished with taking vaccines  and listening to the scaremongering .  And tbh I don't blame them

As I said that's up to them, I'm seeing much of the same. People with 3 vaccines already will have some protection. The people I'd really worry about are the idiots who haven't got any vaccines yet.
why ? Is that what the experts are saying
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on October 12, 2022, 08:26:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2022, 06:38:03 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 12, 2022, 06:35:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 12, 2022, 05:43:22 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 12, 2022, 05:08:57 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on October 11, 2022, 11:20:08 PM
You won't see this on government funded RTE.

https://twitter.com/Rob_Roos/status/1579759795225198593 (https://twitter.com/Rob_Roos/status/1579759795225198593)

This is truly shocking alright - no, wait ...........

Dec 2020- https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vaccine-immunity-e-idINKBN28I0OK

QuoteClinical trials so far have not been designed to determine if an immunized person can still spread the coronavirus to someone else. Some vaccines, such as hepatitis A, do provide such protection - known as sterilizing immunity - but others do not. COVID-19 vaccine makers focused trials on determining whether the drug stopped people from becoming ill.

Dec 2020 - https://www.jpost.com/health-science/pfizer-chairman-unsure-if-covid-vaccine-prevents-transmission-to-others-651184

QuotePfizer chairman Albert Bourla said on Thursday that the pharmaceutical company is unsure whether the coronavirus vaccine could prevent a person from transmitting the virus, The Hill reported.

The comment was made to Dateline host Lester Holt during a prime-time special titled "Race for a Vaccine" wherein Holt questioned individuals involved in development and distribution of the coronavirus vaccine.

Holt asked Bourla if being vaccinated for the virus meant he could still transmit it to others.

"I think this is something that needs to be examined. We are not certain about that right now with what we know," Bourla responded.

Dec 2020 - https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-takes-key-action-fight-against-covid-19-issuing-emergency-use-authorization-first-covid-19

QuoteAt this time, data are not available to make a determination about how long the vaccine will provide protection, nor is there evidence that the vaccine prevents transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from person to person.

These guys must be part of the Grand Conspiracy:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2116597 (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2116597)

Despite their findings (Feb 2022) that transmission reduction declined with the delta variant compared to the alpha.

There is no grand conspiracy. Big Pharma just ' sexed up the dossier ' to sell more product.

Examples?

https://www.jnj.com/johnson-johnson-announces-real-world-evidence-and-phase-3-data-confirming-strong-and-long-lasting-protection-of-single-shot-covid-19-vaccine-in-the-u-s

There's the jnc figures vs real world outcome.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2117128

I'm not actually particularly suprised ( I am concerned with their regulation)with the Pharma companies. Its their function to produce profit for their shareholders. They've shown with Tamiflu and numerous other scandals that profit came before ethics.

What concerned me more was the health authorities and government agencies focussing in on the non-vaccinated and implementing divisive and discriminatory policies against them.
        If the main concern of government was the protection of the ICU units and
Collapse of the health service then the evidence was clear from a very early stage who was most vulnerable to severe covid infection and death and that was those over 75 with comorbidities and those with compromised immune systems.
     
Perhaps you can answer 2 questions of mine.
     What was the rationale(given what we knew about covid 19 transmission and mortality rates in under 12's  in 2021/22) in pushing for the vaccination of this group?
      Similarly what was the rationale of introducing covid passports, covid work mandates, college mandates or even entire population mandates as in Austria?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2022, 05:15:32 PM
1. Yes, that's why we need peer review and replication of studies in science and medicine.

2. Early in the pandemic, people of all ages and health statuses were dying. I knew several young people, some with health problems, but others with absolutely none to that point, who passed away. I'm in Queens in NYC, so perhaps my local experience is different to yours, but my local hospital was on world news with the massive queues for the emergency rooms and the refrigerated trucks brought in to store the bodies. There were stories all over our news of otherwise healthy doctors and nurses in city hospitals getting sick and dying also.

3. As for rationalizing vaccinations of the u-12s, without turning this into a college research assignment for myself (and I'm sure it was discussed to death on these pages), my recollection is that it would offer protection for both themselves and those around them, especially old people (perhaps more of an issue in a densely populated environment like NYC than elsewhere) and would allow the schools to move on from shutting down classes (which they've done). We got our kids, both u-12 vaccinated. My son subsequently got a very mild case a few months later, but neither myself, my wife or my daughter caught it from him, and indeed we're all covid-free to date (I've been back working full time in the office and using NYC subways since summer of 2020).

4. With my work, the mandate was introduced to enhance the chances of a return to normal operations (and we were impacted greatly by covid). The institution I work for has a well-renowned medical and public health aspect, and they came up with the rules. The mandate was actually very successful in their case, with adherence in the high 90s among those who didn't get medical exemptions. I know of only one or two people who I've heard left over it. Personally, I had no issue with it, just like I never had any issue with other vaccination requirements I've had to meet, either for myself or my kids. As for examples like Austria's draconian response, never mind China, no, I wouldn't be in support of that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 13, 2022, 05:29:59 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 12, 2022, 08:26:54 PM
     
Perhaps you can answer 2 questions of mine.
     What was the rationale(given what we knew about covid 19 transmission and mortality rates in under 12's  in 2021/22) in pushing for the vaccination of this group?
      Similarly what was the rationale of introducing covid passports, covid work mandates, college mandates or even entire population mandates as in Austria?

Because a vaccine does not prevent transmission does not mean that it does not reduce transmission. People were required to take measures to reduce transmission, be they masks or vaccines, to protect people who were vulnerable through no fault of their own.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: charlieTully on October 13, 2022, 06:14:25 PM
What's the thoughts on a winter booster? I will get the flu jab. Reluctant to get the covid one now I've had the virus.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2022, 06:24:01 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on October 13, 2022, 06:14:25 PM
What's the thoughts on a winter booster? I will get the flu jab. Reluctant to get the covid one now I've had the virus.

I'll probably get it when I go for the flu jab. Its just about a year since I had the booster.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on October 13, 2022, 07:39:37 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on October 13, 2022, 06:14:25 PM
What's the thoughts on a winter booster? I will get the flu jab. Reluctant to get the covid one now I've had the virus.

Had both yesterday. Get the covid one in whatever is your weak arm, because it will hurt the best day!
You can't get it off you've had covid in the last 4 weeks btw.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on October 13, 2022, 08:45:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2022, 05:15:32 PM
1. Yes, that's why we need peer review and replication of studies in science and medicine.

2. Early in the pandemic, people of all ages and health statuses were dying. I knew several young people, some with health problems, but others with absolutely none to that point, who passed away. I'm in Queens in NYC, so perhaps my local experience is different to yours, but my local hospital was on world news with the massive queues for the emergency rooms and the refrigerated trucks brought in to store the bodies. There were stories all over our news of otherwise healthy doctors and nurses in city hospitals getting sick and dying also.

3. As for rationalizing vaccinations of the u-12s, without turning this into a college research assignment for myself (and I'm sure it was discussed to death on these pages), my recollection is that it would offer protection for both themselves and those around them, especially old people (perhaps more of an issue in a densely populated environment like NYC than elsewhere) and would allow the schools to move on from shutting down classes (which they've done). We got our kids, both u-12 vaccinated. My son subsequently got a very mild case a few months later, but neither myself, my wife or my daughter caught it from him, and indeed we're all covid-free to date (I've been back working full time in the office and using NYC subways since summer of 2020).

4. With my work, the mandate was introduced to enhance the chances of a return to normal operations (and we were impacted greatly by covid). The institution I work for has a well-renowned medical and public health aspect, and they came up with the rules. The mandate was actually very successful in their case, with adherence in the high 90s among those who didn't get medical exemptions. I know of only one or two people who I've heard left over it. Personally, I had no issue with it, just like I never had any issue with other vaccination requirements I've had to meet, either for myself or my kids. As for examples like Austria's draconian response, never mind China, no, I wouldn't be in support of that.

Thanks for the response.

I appreciate that we probably have a different experience of c19 given you live in NYC and I'm in rural Ireland. However, the stats are fairly clear no matter where you live regarding Covid 19 mortalities. It was/still is a potentially very serious illness for the population, particularly those with underlying medical conditions and the elderly population.

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/08/16/at-least-one-other-condition-contributed-to-almost-all-covid-19-related-deaths-in-ireland-cso/

Out of interest,  how do you know you were Covid free?  Did you get an blood antibody test?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40946759.html

That was a fairly recent study showing 95% of an Irish sample group with covid 19 antibodies. Co-incidentally only 2 out of the 445 participants weren't vaccinated. I'd hazard a guess there would be similar results in New York.

For me(given the known data on mortality and transmission rates in the under 12 age group), i couldn't and still can't rationalise the use of the c19 vaccine in that age group. I'd wager a lot of parents of children u12 in New York, were pressurised into vaccinating their kids, in order to participate fully in school activities.

As for worker mandates, I can't believe there is still a c19 vaccine mandate for public sector employees in NYC. Now that's mad.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on October 13, 2022, 08:48:20 PM
Giving booster and flu jab a miss, was very sick for 3 months after Covid 2nd time, only coming round pass few weeks, immune system not up to taking a flu or covid jab.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on October 13, 2022, 09:04:14 PM
Good question on "covid-free"!

Having got the two courses of the initial jab and then the booster last year, there would obviously be antibodies circulating, at some level, through me.

What I mean is that I've never tested positive when I've had cold-like symptoms. We've a stack of tests at home as the public schools send them home with the kids periodically, so we always do a rapid test if someone has symptoms. My work had a surveillance programme where you could be called in for random testing, plus they offered free testing once a week for anyone who wanted it (they dropped the programme back in the spring). So I've probably been tested a few dozen times, both PCR and rapid tests. My mother is elderly, so I wanted to keep a close eye on it, plus I've one or two issues myself. Never had a positive result. Like most people, I'm rarely tested anymore, so its possible I had an asymptomatic infection at some point this summer, but I doubt it. Which is weird, because I catch every cold going!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on October 13, 2022, 10:09:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 13, 2022, 09:04:14 PM
Good question on "covid-free"!

Having got the two courses of the initial jab and then the booster last year, there would obviously be antibodies circulating, at some level, through me.

What I mean is that I've never tested positive when I've had cold-like symptoms. We've a stack of tests at home as the public schools send them home with the kids periodically, so we always do a rapid test if someone has symptoms. My work had a surveillance programme where you could be called in for random testing, plus they offered free testing once a week for anyone who wanted it (they dropped the programme back in the spring). So I've probably been tested a few dozen times, both PCR and rapid tests. My mother is elderly, so I wanted to keep a close eye on it, plus I've one or two issues myself. Never had a positive result. Like most people, I'm rarely tested anymore, so its possible I had an asymptomatic infection at some point this summer, but I doubt it. Which is weird, because I catch every cold going!

I think your situation is very similar to most of us. The point is the overall population infection rates is very poorly understood.  The concept of an asymptomatic carrier was hotly disputed for a while and is still not fully understood in terms of the infection and transmission rates.
          Out of interest there are a few methods of antibody testing, principally spike and nucleocapsid. Nucleocapsid is used to assess SARS-CoV-2 infection rates as opposed to spike which can be used for both SARS-CoV-2 infection rates and antibodies produced after vaccination.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanhl/article/PIIS2666-7568(21)00282-8/fulltext

Above is a uk study showing Prevalence and duration of detectable SARS-CoV-2 nucleocapsid antibodies in staff and residents of long-term care facilities over the first year of the pandemic (VIVALDI study):

The conclusion is
At least a quarter of staff and a third of surviving residents were infected with SAR-CoV-2 during the first two waves of the pandemic in England. Nucleocapsid-specific antibodies often become undetectable within the first year following infection, which is likely to lead to marked underestimation of the true proportion of people with previous infection.

Thats from 2021 in a nursing home environment, with early and high vaccination
Uptake and all the preventative measures put in place possible at that time.

You can only imagine what the rate would be now with things opened up, and also imagine what the rate would be in general population.
   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 13, 2022, 11:07:05 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 13, 2022, 08:48:20 PM
Giving booster and flu jab a miss, was very sick for 3 months after Covid 2nd time, only coming round pass few weeks, immune system not up to taking a flu or covid jab.

I've read a few things that suggest that a bout of covid provides the same level of immunity as an additional jab.  4 months worth of immunity is what I've read.  If that's true, then you'd be as well off avoiding the booster for a month or so.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on October 13, 2022, 11:09:47 PM
I'd read up on it for similar reasons to yourself.  I had a dose of it beginning in mid May, initially fairly mild, but with ongoing symptoms (particularly neurological type symptoms--dizziness, muscle tremors) that lasted about three months.  Wasn't sure whether or not I should get/needed to get a booster.

I did get a booster in the end in September.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Man Marker on October 14, 2022, 01:57:16 PM
It's amazing to watch those who were entirely wrong about the ability of the vaccines to prevent transmission double down and refuse to admit that they were misled.
Virtually no one who advocated for discrimination against the "unvaccinated" has been willing to apologise for it. And there are few on here in that category
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 02:26:33 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on October 14, 2022, 01:57:16 PM
It's amazing to watch those who were entirely wrong about the ability of the vaccines to prevent transmission double down and refuse to admit that they were misled.
Virtually no one who advocated for discrimination against the "unvaccinated" has been willing to apologise for it. And there are few on here in that category
, it was hoped that it would prevent transmission... I wasn't misled...

those unvaccinated were more likely to end up in hospitals and ICUs so I make no apology for wanting less covid cases in hospitals so that hospitals could go back to treating all patients for all ailments..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Man Marker on October 14, 2022, 02:32:08 PM
Did you support the covid passports?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 02:40:57 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 02:26:33 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on October 14, 2022, 01:57:16 PM
It's amazing to watch those who were entirely wrong about the ability of the vaccines to prevent transmission double down and refuse to admit that they were misled.
Virtually no one who advocated for discrimination against the "unvaccinated" has been willing to apologise for it. And there are few on here in that category
, it was hoped that it would prevent transmission... I wasn't misled...

those unvaccinated were more likely to end up in hospitals and ICUs so I make no apology for wanting less covid cases in hospitals so that hospitals could go back to treating all patients for all ailments..

at the point in time they were introduced. yes
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on October 14, 2022, 03:09:29 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on October 14, 2022, 02:32:08 PM
Did you support the covid passports?

I supported them and would still support them. They were not discriminating against anyone but rather discriminated for those people in society who were taking precautions to protect everyone. Vaccines have helped people avaoid getting very sick and have prevented hundreds of thousands of deaths worldwide. That is undeniable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 14, 2022, 03:25:07 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on October 14, 2022, 02:32:08 PM
Did you support the covid passports?

Are these the covid passports that were here to stay and we'd never see the end of them?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on October 14, 2022, 03:29:26 PM
I never was a fan of them if I'm honest (I got the vaccines etc). I still think people should get vaccinated but I would know people who didn't get them and I wouldn't lose any friendships over it. There's a lot of information out there on them of the negative variety and some people process that very differently to others. It's just the society we live in. There still is and stuff coming out makes some people think they've "won". It was a shitty situation no one knew how to get out of.

That being said it was worth it to see Jim Corr being caught out using a fake one  ;D (Disclaimer may be fake news but funny anyway).

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Man Marker on October 14, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
Lenny is cut from the same cloth as those bitter unionists who want us taigs back in our civil rights backwoods. Its one thing supporting mandates back in the day, even tho is was blatantly obvious it was a restriction on peoples civil rights, but it an entirely different thing supporting discrimination when you know its not based on science but only your prejudice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 03:44:47 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on October 14, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
Lenny is cut from the same cloth as those bitter unionists who want us taigs back in our civil rights backwoods. Its one thing supporting mandates back in the day, even tho is was blatantly obvious it was a restriction on peoples civil rights, but it an entirely different thing supporting discrimination when you know its not based on science but only your prejudice.

how was it not based on science...unvaccinated were more likely to end up in ICU and hospital... also I read that it helped people decide to get the vaccine too..

similar In a way to the smoking ban in terms of discrimination and civil rights for me
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on October 14, 2022, 04:05:56 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 03:44:47 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on October 14, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
Lenny is cut from the same cloth as those bitter unionists who want us taigs back in our civil rights backwoods. Its one thing supporting mandates back in the day, even tho is was blatantly obvious it was a restriction on peoples civil rights, but it an entirely different thing supporting discrimination when you know its not based on science but only your prejudice.

how was it not based on science...unvaccinated were more likely to end up in ICU and hospital... also I read that it helped people decide to get the vaccine too..

similar In a way to the smoking ban in terms of discrimination and civil rights for me

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/08/16/at-least-one-other-condition-contributed-to-almost-all-covid-19-related-deaths-in-ireland-cso/

Its very well documented who were overwhelmingly most at risk from death and serious illness from covid 19 infection(whether vaccinated or unvaccinated)

The very uncomfortable truth is that based on the scientific evidence at that time , that those groupings most at risk of death and serious illness should have been included in any Covid passport if there was to be one.

Providing that is, that the function of tye covid passport was to protect the health service(s) and in particular prevent the collapse of the ICU's.
       

       
         
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 04:15:07 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 04:05:56 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 03:44:47 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on October 14, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
Lenny is cut from the same cloth as those bitter unionists who want us taigs back in our civil rights backwoods. Its one thing supporting mandates back in the day, even tho is was blatantly obvious it was a restriction on peoples civil rights, but it an entirely different thing supporting discrimination when you know its not based on science but only your prejudice.

how was it not based on science...unvaccinated were more likely to end up in ICU and hospital... also I read that it helped people decide to get the vaccine too..

similar In a way to the smoking ban in terms of discrimination and civil rights for me

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/08/16/at-least-one-other-condition-contributed-to-almost-all-covid-19-related-deaths-in-ireland-cso/

Its very well documented who were overwhelmingly most at risk from death and serious illness from covid 19 infection(whether vaccinated or unvaccinated)

The very uncomfortable truth is that based on the scientific evidence at that time , that those groupings most at risk of death and serious illness should have been included in any Covid passport if there was to be one.   
         

as you say it was very well know who were most at risk, they didn't need a passport to protect themselves... they needed the passport so that if they did end up in hospitals and ICUs there was availability and staff for them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on October 14, 2022, 06:11:21 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 14, 2022, 03:29:26 PM
I never was a fan of them if I'm honest (I got the vaccines etc). I still think people should get vaccinated but I would know people who didn't get them and I wouldn't lose any friendships over it. There's a lot of information out there on them of the negative variety and some people process that very differently to others. It's just the society we live in. There still is and stuff coming out makes some people think they've "won". It was a shitty situation no one knew how to get out of.

That being said it was worth it to see Jim Corr being caught out using a fake one  ;D (Disclaimer may be fake news but funny anyway).

You might as well say, I don't drive drunk but I know a few people who do and I wouldn't fall out over it. 40 years ago many people thought like this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on October 14, 2022, 07:21:17 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 04:15:07 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 04:05:56 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 03:44:47 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on October 14, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
Lenny is cut from the same cloth as those bitter unionists who want us taigs back in our civil rights backwoods. Its one thing supporting mandates back in the day, even tho is was blatantly obvious it was a restriction on peoples civil rights, but it an entirely different thing supporting discrimination when you know its not based on science but only your prejudice.

how was it not based on science...unvaccinated were more likely to end up in ICU and hospital... also I read that it helped people decide to get the vaccine too..

similar In a way to the smoking ban in terms of discrimination and civil rights for me

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/08/16/at-least-one-other-condition-contributed-to-almost-all-covid-19-related-deaths-in-ireland-cso/

Its very well documented who were overwhelmingly most at risk from death and serious illness from covid 19 infection(whether vaccinated or unvaccinated)

The very uncomfortable truth is that based on the scientific evidence at that time , that those groupings most at risk of death and serious illness should have been included in any Covid passport if there was to be one.   
         

as you say it was very well know who were most at risk, they didn't need a passport to protect themselves... they needed the passport so that if they did end up in hospitals and ICUs there was availability and staff for them.

Thats a very weak argument based on scientific evidence.
     You are targetting one group(the unvaccinated) with a whole raft of measures while ignoring another group (s) who were overwhelmingly more at risk of death or serious illness from Covid 19. Thus potentially bringing down the ICU's hospitals.

Now if its an emotive or moralistic argument for the covid passport then fair enough, but at least be honest enough to say so. For me it was coercion pure and simple, because it wasn't based on sound scientific evidence available at the time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on October 14, 2022, 07:29:54 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on October 14, 2022, 06:11:21 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 14, 2022, 03:29:26 PM
I never was a fan of them if I'm honest (I got the vaccines etc). I still think people should get vaccinated but I would know people who didn't get them and I wouldn't lose any friendships over it. There's a lot of information out there on them of the negative variety and some people process that very differently to others. It's just the society we live in. There still is and stuff coming out makes some people think they've "won". It was a shitty situation no one knew how to get out of.

That being said it was worth it to see Jim Corr being caught out using a fake one  ;D (Disclaimer may be fake news but funny anyway).

You might as well say, I don't drive drunk but I know a few people who do and I wouldn't fall out over it. 40 years ago many people thought like this.

This drink driving analogy was thrown round alot in relation to the unvaccinated and the covid passport.
           But we knew then and we certainly know now, who were overwhelmingly most at risk from death and serious illness from covid 19 infection(whether vaccinated or unvaccinated.
          Excluding the unvaccinated on this Covid passport but including these other groups(who were more at risk) was akin to saying a blind man is ok to drive a car just because he has a driving licence.
   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 07:47:42 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 07:21:17 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 04:15:07 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 04:05:56 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 03:44:47 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on October 14, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
Lenny is cut from the same cloth as those bitter unionists who want us taigs back in our civil rights backwoods. Its one thing supporting mandates back in the day, even tho is was blatantly obvious it was a restriction on peoples civil rights, but it an entirely different thing supporting discrimination when you know its not based on science but only your prejudice.

how was it not based on science...unvaccinated were more likely to end up in ICU and hospital... also I read that it helped people decide to get the vaccine too..

similar In a way to the smoking ban in terms of discrimination and civil rights for me

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/08/16/at-least-one-other-condition-contributed-to-almost-all-covid-19-related-deaths-in-ireland-cso/

Its very well documented who were overwhelmingly most at risk from death and serious illness from covid 19 infection(whether vaccinated or unvaccinated)

The very uncomfortable truth is that based on the scientific evidence at that time , that those groupings most at risk of death and serious illness should have been included in any Covid passport if there was to be one.   
         

as you say it was very well know who were most at risk, they didn't need a passport to protect themselves... they needed the passport so that if they did end up in hospitals and ICUs there was availability and staff for them.

Thats a very weak argument based on scientific evidence.
     You are targetting one group(the unvaccinated) with a whole raft of measures while ignoring another group (s) who were overwhelmingly more at risk of death or serious illness from Covid 19. Thus potentially bringing down the ICU's hospitals.

Now if its an emotive or moralistic argument for the covid passport then fair enough, but at least be honest enough to say so. For me it was coercion pure and simple, because it wasn't based on sound scientific evidence available at the time.

it is argument taking as much as possible into account, both a moral and a scientific argument. I also believe at the time the science was not established regarding transmission so this was a factor too. it could and should not have been a purely scientific argument... if it was then surely zero covid and complete lockdown would have been number 1 choice.  covid cannot spread of it doesn't have a host...

the old and vulnerable cocooned early doors but they cannot get younger and they  cannot reserve their medical conditions quickly. Getting a vaccine took me 30 minutes x2.  the most vulnerable in theory would be more cautious, than the unvaccinated also in my opinion.

it was not perfect, nothing rarely is, but overall a better more palable outcomes than others.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on October 14, 2022, 08:44:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 07:47:42 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 07:21:17 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 04:15:07 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 04:05:56 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 03:44:47 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on October 14, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
Lenny is cut from the same cloth as those bitter unionists who want us taigs back in our civil rights backwoods. Its one thing supporting mandates back in the day, even tho is was blatantly obvious it was a restriction on peoples civil rights, but it an entirely different thing supporting discrimination when you know its not based on science but only your prejudice.

how was it not based on science...unvaccinated were more likely to end up in ICU and hospital... also I read that it helped people decide to get the vaccine too..

similar In a way to the smoking ban in terms of discrimination and civil rights for me

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/08/16/at-least-one-other-condition-contributed-to-almost-all-covid-19-related-deaths-in-ireland-cso/

Its very well documented who were overwhelmingly most at risk from death and serious illness from covid 19 infection(whether vaccinated or unvaccinated)

The very uncomfortable truth is that based on the scientific evidence at that time , that those groupings most at risk of death and serious illness should have been included in any Covid passport if there was to be one.   
         

as you say it was very well know who were most at risk, they didn't need a passport to protect themselves... they needed the passport so that if they did end up in hospitals and ICUs there was availability and staff for them.

Thats a very weak argument based on scientific evidence.
     You are targetting one group(the unvaccinated) with a whole raft of measures while ignoring another group (s) who were overwhelmingly more at risk of death or serious illness from Covid 19. Thus potentially bringing down the ICU's hospitals.

Now if its an emotive or moralistic argument for the covid passport then fair enough, but at least be honest enough to say so. For me it was coercion pure and simple, because it wasn't based on sound scientific evidence available at the time.

it is argument taking as much as possible into account, both a moral and a scientific argument. I also believe at the time the science was not established regarding transmission so this was a factor too. it could and should not have been a purely scientific argument... if it was then surely zero covid and complete lockdown would have been number 1 choice.  covid cannot spread of it doesn't have a host...

the old and vulnerable cocooned early doors but they cannot get younger and they  cannot reserve their medical conditions quickly. Getting a vaccine took me 30 minutes x2.  the most vulnerable in theory would be more cautious, than the unvaccinated also in my opinion.

it was not perfect, nothing rarely is, but overall a better more palable outcomes than others.

Thanks for the honest reply.
       For me a lot of the decisions such as Covid passports, mandates, vaccination protocols etc were sold based on sound scientific research and not a moralistic stance .
      ' trust the science ' we were told. Any dissent (even from reputable sources) was quickly ridiculed, silenced and shut down.
     But as it's turning out the science wasn't as sound as the public health representatives and politicians were extolling. Now that is very damaging as regards the public's faith in future directions from public health authorities and only gives more ammunition for halfwits to forego sensible public health programmes. Thus undermining tried and tested public health protocols such as current and successful child/adolescent vaccination programmes.

One other point. Zero covid was never a realistic possibility, given the circumstances. b][/b] it's a Zoonotic disease, unless you eliminate all the animal hosts then that's a non-runner. Mers is obvious example.
     
Can I ask one question, in your opinion was the covid passport used as a vehicle to push those unvaccinated to get their jabs?



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 09:01:28 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 08:44:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 07:47:42 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 07:21:17 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 04:15:07 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 04:05:56 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 03:44:47 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on October 14, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
Lenny is cut from the same cloth as those bitter unionists who want us taigs back in our civil rights backwoods. Its one thing supporting mandates back in the day, even tho is was blatantly obvious it was a restriction on peoples civil rights, but it an entirely different thing supporting discrimination when you know its not based on science but only your prejudice.

how was it not based on science...unvaccinated were more likely to end up in ICU and hospital... also I read that it helped people decide to get the vaccine too..

similar In a way to the smoking ban in terms of discrimination and civil rights for me

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/08/16/at-least-one-other-condition-contributed-to-almost-all-covid-19-related-deaths-in-ireland-cso/

Its very well documented who were overwhelmingly most at risk from death and serious illness from covid 19 infection(whether vaccinated or unvaccinated)

The very uncomfortable truth is that based on the scientific evidence at that time , that those groupings most at risk of death and serious illness should have been included in any Covid passport if there was to be one.   
         

as you say it was very well know who were most at risk, they didn't need a passport to protect themselves... they needed the passport so that if they did end up in hospitals and ICUs there was availability and staff for them.

Thats a very weak argument based on scientific evidence.
     You are targetting one group(the unvaccinated) with a whole raft of measures while ignoring another group (s) who were overwhelmingly more at risk of death or serious illness from Covid 19. Thus potentially bringing down the ICU's hospitals.

Now if its an emotive or moralistic argument for the covid passport then fair enough, but at least be honest enough to say so. For me it was coercion pure and simple, because it wasn't based on sound scientific evidence available at the time.

it is argument taking as much as possible into account, both a moral and a scientific argument. I also believe at the time the science was not established regarding transmission so this was a factor too. it could and should not have been a purely scientific argument... if it was then surely zero covid and complete lockdown would have been number 1 choice.  covid cannot spread of it doesn't have a host...

the old and vulnerable cocooned early doors but they cannot get younger and they  cannot reserve their medical conditions quickly. Getting a vaccine took me 30 minutes x2.  the most vulnerable in theory would be more cautious, than the unvaccinated also in my opinion.

it was not perfect, nothing rarely is, but overall a better more palable outcomes than others.

Thanks for the honest reply.
       For me a lot of the decisions such as Covid passports, mandates, vaccination protocols etc were sold based on sound scientific research and not a moralistic stance .
      ' trust the science ' we were told. Any dissent (even from reputable sources) was quickly ridiculed, silenced and shut down.
     But as it's turning out the science wasn't as sound as the public health representatives and politicians were extolling. Now that is very damaging as regards the public's faith in future directions from public health authorities and only gives more ammunition for halfwits to forego sensible public health programmes. Thus undermining tried and tested public health protocols such as current and successful child/adolescent vaccination programmes.

Just a few one other point. Zero covid was never a realistic possibility, given the circumstances. b][/b] it's a Zoonotic disease, unless you eliminate all the animal hosts then that's a non-runner. Mers is obvious example.
     

what science wasn't as sound? I don't agree with almost all of your last post. I think false narratives are/were put forward alot which undermines confidence... just look what kicked this thread off again.... the false narrative on transmissions...

  we were told xyz (when we werent) they don't know what they are doing, the science is a lie , it's all a conspiracy... the most surprising thing is a lot of unvaccinated believed in alternative untested treatments... this tells is that no amount of science was going to convince them. I'm the US, like everything it was completely politicised...

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on October 14, 2022, 09:14:15 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 09:01:28 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 08:44:21 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 07:47:42 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 07:21:17 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 04:15:07 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 04:05:56 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 03:44:47 PM
Quote from: Man Marker on October 14, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
Lenny is cut from the same cloth as those bitter unionists who want us taigs back in our civil rights backwoods. Its one thing supporting mandates back in the day, even tho is was blatantly obvious it was a restriction on peoples civil rights, but it an entirely different thing supporting discrimination when you know its not based on science but only your prejudice.

how was it not based on science...unvaccinated were more likely to end up in ICU and hospital... also I read that it helped people decide to get the vaccine too..

similar In a way to the smoking ban in terms of discrimination and civil rights for me

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/08/16/at-least-one-other-condition-contributed-to-almost-all-covid-19-related-deaths-in-ireland-cso/

Its very well documented who were overwhelmingly most at risk from death and serious illness from covid 19 infection(whether vaccinated or unvaccinated)

The very uncomfortable truth is that based on the scientific evidence at that time , that those groupings most at risk of death and serious illness should have been included in any Covid passport if there was to be one.   
         

as you say it was very well know who were most at risk, they didn't need a passport to protect themselves... they needed the passport so that if they did end up in hospitals and ICUs there was availability and staff for them.

Thats a very weak argument based on scientific evidence.
     You are targetting one group(the unvaccinated) with a whole raft of measures while ignoring another group (s) who were overwhelmingly more at risk of death or serious illness from Covid 19. Thus potentially bringing down the ICU's hospitals.

Now if its an emotive or moralistic argument for the covid passport then fair enough, but at least be honest enough to say so. For me it was coercion pure and simple, because it wasn't based on sound scientific evidence available at the time.

it is argument taking as much as possible into account, both a moral and a scientific argument. I also believe at the time the science was not established regarding transmission so this was a factor too. it could and should not have been a purely scientific argument... if it was then surely zero covid and complete lockdown would have been number 1 choice.  covid cannot spread of it doesn't have a host...

the old and vulnerable cocooned early doors but they cannot get younger and they  cannot reserve their medical conditions quickly. Getting a vaccine took me 30 minutes x2.  the most vulnerable in theory would be more cautious, than the unvaccinated also in my opinion.

it was not perfect, nothing rarely is, but overall a better more palable outcomes than others.

Thanks for the honest reply.
       For me a lot of the decisions such as Covid passports, mandates, vaccination protocols etc were sold based on sound scientific research and not a moralistic stance .
      ' trust the science ' we were told. Any dissent (even from reputable sources) was quickly ridiculed, silenced and shut down.
     But as it's turning out the science wasn't as sound as the public health representatives and politicians were extolling. Now that is very damaging as regards the public's faith in future directions from public health authorities and only gives more ammunition for halfwits to forego sensible public health programmes. Thus undermining tried and tested public health protocols such as current and successful child/adolescent vaccination programmes.

Just a few one other point. Zero covid was never a realistic possibility, given the circumstances. b][/b] it's a Zoonotic disease, unless you eliminate all the animal hosts then that's a non-runner. Mers is obvious example.
     

what science wasn't as sound? I don't agree with almost all of your last post. I think false narratives are/were put forward alot which undermines confidence... just look what kicked this thread off again.... the false narrative on transmissions...

  we were told xyz (when we werent) they don't know what they are doing, the science is a lie , it's all a conspiracy... the most surprising thing is a lot of unvaccinated believed in alternative untested treatments... this tells is that no amount of science was going to convince them. I'm the US, like everything it was completely politicised...

Can I ask one question, in your opinion was the covid passport used as a vehicle to push those unvaccinated to get their jabs?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 09:21:49 PM
I am sure it played some part in increasing numbers who took the vaccine but i doubt why much, as I said there was a lots factors so it may have been one...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on October 14, 2022, 10:23:51 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 09:21:49 PM
I am sure it played some part in increasing numbers who took the vaccine but i doubt why much, as I said there was a lots factors so it may have been one...

' It's done the trick in terms of getting people vaccinated."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58722878

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 10:31:25 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 10:23:51 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 09:21:49 PM
I am sure it played some part in increasing numbers who took the vaccine but i doubt why much, as I said there was a lots factors so it may have been one...

' It's done the trick in terms of getting people vaccinated."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58722878

that seems based on 2 or 3 peoples opinion rather than anything else, unless I missed something
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on October 14, 2022, 10:43:49 PM
It done the trick alright. Mandatory vaccination would have sealed the deal in Ireland.


Quite a few studies to demonstrate its effect..


https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(21)00273-5/fulltext

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(22)00196-7/fulltext






Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 10:43:49 PM
It done the trick alright. Mandatory vaccination would have sealed the deal in Ireland.


Quite a few studies to demonstrate its effect..


https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(21)00273-5/fulltext

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(22)00196-7/fulltext

the US is not comparable and the first study states... We found no effect in countries that already had average uptake (Germany), or an unclear effect when certificates were introduced during a period of limited vaccine supply (Denmark), it.did find effects in France and Israel.... what the effect in Ireland is not clear from.those two links.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on October 14, 2022, 11:24:41 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 10:43:49 PM
It done the trick alright. Mandatory vaccination would have sealed the deal in Ireland.


Quite a few studies to demonstrate its effect..


https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(21)00273-5/fulltext

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(22)00196-7/fulltext

the US is not comparable and the first study states... We found no effect in countries that already had average uptake (Germany), or an unclear effect when certificates were introduced during a period of limited vaccine supply (Denmark), it.did find effects in France and Israel.... what the effect in Ireland is not clear from.those two links.

Okey dokey.

P.s. It done the trick alright.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 14, 2022, 11:28:37 PM
Night Clubs were opened for 2 weeks to encourage 18-30 year olds to get the vaccine. They'd never have got it otherwise! They seen they were young, felt strong enough to fend it off and couldn't be bothered!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on October 14, 2022, 11:47:51 PM
So where are we with the Vaccine now?

What does it do?

Does it stop you getting Covid?

Does it stop you spreading Covid?

How long does it last?

Does it make you sick?

Is there any serious side effects?

How does the vaccine work now that f*** all are getting it?

Is there no herd immunity anymore?

Are you all still believing this BS and making loads of money for the Pharmaceuticals and PPE producers?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on October 14, 2022, 11:59:05 PM
Interesting article on the vaccines.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-pfizer-transmission-european-parliament-950413863226
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 15, 2022, 07:19:43 AM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 11:24:41 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 10:43:49 PM
It done the trick alright. Mandatory vaccination would have sealed the deal in Ireland.


Quite a few studies to demonstrate its effect..


https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(21)00273-5/fulltext

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(22)00196-7/fulltext

the US is not comparable and the first study states... We found no effect in countries that already had average uptake (Germany), or an unclear effect when certificates were introduced during a period of limited vaccine supply (Denmark), it.did find effects in France and Israel.... what the effect in Ireland is not clear from.those two links.

Okey dokey.

P.s. It done the trick alright.

you claim to follow the science but then it didn't suit so 'okay dokey'... then you quote one TCD professors opinion from a bbc article...

I am not surewhat point you are even trying to make anymore...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on October 15, 2022, 07:29:30 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 15, 2022, 07:19:43 AM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 11:24:41 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 10:43:49 PM
It done the trick alright. Mandatory vaccination would have sealed the deal in Ireland.


Quite a few studies to demonstrate its effect..


https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(21)00273-5/fulltext

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(22)00196-7/fulltext

the US is not comparable and the first study states... We found no effect in countries that already had average uptake (Germany), or an unclear effect when certificates were introduced during a period of limited vaccine supply (Denmark), it.did find effects in France and Israel.... what the effect in Ireland is not clear from.those two links.

Okey dokey.

P.s. It done the trick alright.

you claim to follow the science but then it didn't suit so 'okay dokey'... then you quote one TCD professors opinion from a bbc article...

I am not surewhat point you are even trying to make anymore...

Always the same with you.
       Leap into defending the pharmaceutical companies and c19 vaccinations and mandates ( i can only surmise you must work in the industry) and then round and round in circles, ad naseum.
   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 15, 2022, 07:54:03 AM
Quote from: grounded on October 15, 2022, 07:29:30 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 15, 2022, 07:19:43 AM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 11:24:41 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 14, 2022, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: grounded on October 14, 2022, 10:43:49 PM
It done the trick alright. Mandatory vaccination would have sealed the deal in Ireland.


Quite a few studies to demonstrate its effect..


https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(21)00273-5/fulltext

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(22)00196-7/fulltext

the US is not comparable and the first study states... We found no effect in countries that already had average uptake (Germany), or an unclear effect when certificates were introduced during a period of limited vaccine supply (Denmark), it.did find effects in France and Israel.... what the effect in Ireland is not clear from.those two links.

Okey dokey.

P.s. It done the trick alright.

you claim to follow the science but then it didn't suit so 'okay dokey'... then you quote one TCD professors opinion from a bbc article...

I am not surewhat point you are even trying to make anymore...

Always the same with you.
       Leap into defending the pharmaceutical companies and c19 vaccinations and mandates ( i can only surmise you must work in the industry) and then round and round in circles, ad naseum.
   

I work in financial services... I am not defending anyone, in most cases I am answering questions you have asked me... and initially I was thanked for honest replies...

you have three links that are inconclusive in terms of proofing anything you are trying to alluded too yet you are trying to make out that you are following the science and that everyone else didn't.. 

if I am wrong correct me.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on October 15, 2022, 08:38:11 AM
Last try. I'm saying the covid passport in Ireland caused an increase in the uptake of the c19 vaccine among the unvaccinated population. In my opinion a form of coercion(that's my opinion).

Covid-19 vaccine uptake in the Republic of Ireland "would have been much lower" without the vaccine passport scheme, an immunology expert has said.

Prof Kingston Mills from Trinity College Dublin said it was "a big incentive" for people to get jabbed

So, is he making it up?

The vaccine figures show a greater uptake among the unvaccinated after the c19 vaccination passport was introduced

Those other studies i linked showed that in countries with high initial vaccine uptake (like Ireland) that vaccine passports and other mandates increased vaccine uptake among the unvaccinated.






Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on October 15, 2022, 08:52:36 AM
Quote from: grounded on October 15, 2022, 08:38:11 AM
Last try. I'm saying the covid passport in Ireland caused an increase in the uptake of the c19 vaccine among the unvaccinated population. In my opinion a form of coercion(that's my opinion).

Covid-19 vaccine uptake in the Republic of Ireland "would have been much lower" without the vaccine passport scheme, an immunology expert has said.

Prof Kingston Mills from Trinity College Dublin said it was "a big incentive" for people to get jabbed

So, is he making it up?

The vaccine figures show a greater uptake among the unvaccinated after the c19 vaccination passport was introduced

Those other studies i linked showed that in countries with high initial vaccine uptake (like Ireland) that vaccine passports and other mandates increased vaccine uptake among the unvaccinated.

tcd professor is giving his opinion, like you are giving yours...

the studies are not conclusive and you are cherry picking to suit your argument.

I think the biggest reason for uptake was to be vaccinated against covid, i dont think anyone was coerced in Ireland by the covid passport, it might have influenced the timeliness of when they got it.

anyone who didn't want to take it, didn't take it... covid passport didn't move them people one bit...

regardless, I think you are attempting to say the passport was only introduced so people would get the vaccine and you haven't provided any proof of that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on October 15, 2022, 06:00:33 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on October 15, 2022, 08:52:36 AM
Quote from: grounded on October 15, 2022, 08:38:11 AM
Last try. I'm saying the covid passport in Ireland caused an increase in the uptake of the c19 vaccine among the unvaccinated population. In my opinion a form of coercion(that's my opinion).

Covid-19 vaccine uptake in the Republic of Ireland "would have been much lower" without the vaccine passport scheme, an immunology expert has said.

Prof Kingston Mills from Trinity College Dublin said it was "a big incentive" for people to get jabbed

So, is he making it up?

The vaccine figures show a greater uptake among the unvaccinated after the c19 vaccination passport was introduced

Those other studies i linked showed that in countries with high initial vaccine uptake (like Ireland) that vaccine passports and other mandates increased vaccine uptake among the unvaccinated.

tcd professor is giving his opinion, like you are giving yours...

the studies are not conclusive and you are cherry picking to suit your argument.

I think the biggest reason for uptake was to be vaccinated against covid, i dont think anyone was coerced in Ireland by the covid passport, it might have influenced the timeliness of when they got it.

anyone who didn't want to take it, didn't take it... covid passport didn't move them people one bit...

regardless, I think you are attempting to say the passport was only introduced so people would get the vaccine and you haven't provided any proof of that.

Okey dokey.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 28, 2022, 10:22:18 AM
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/28/clashes-in-shanghai-as-protests-over-zero-covid-policy-grip-china

Major trouble in China over their zero covid policy by the sounds of it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: shawshank on November 28, 2022, 10:41:31 AM
The passport was introduced to force people who hadn't taken the vaccine to take it i.e. coercion
Another version of save your granny and another version of get the vaccine and you won't pass it unto someone. This was what was driven. All turn out to be political myths (https://twitter.com/BernieSpofforth/status/1596990025366794240). None grounded in science.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 28, 2022, 11:01:10 AM
Quote from: shawshank on November 28, 2022, 10:41:31 AM
The passport was introduced to force people who hadn't taken the vaccine to take it i.e. coercion
Another version of save your granny and another version of get the vaccine and you won't pass it unto someone. This was what was driven. All turn out to be political myths (https://twitter.com/BernieSpofforth/status/1596990025366794240). None grounded in science.

Stop talking bollix promoted by loonies, we are not eejits. 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2792598
"fully vaccinated individuals had a notably shorter duration of viable viral shedding and a significantly lower secondary attack rate. Data from this study provide important evidence that despite the possibility of breakthrough infections, COVID-19 vaccinations remain critically useful for controlling the spread of SARS-CoV-2."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on November 28, 2022, 11:11:12 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 28, 2022, 10:22:18 AM
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/28/clashes-in-shanghai-as-protests-over-zero-covid-policy-grip-china

Major trouble in China over their zero covid policy by the sounds of it

China are well used to these protests. They'll simply crush them. I would be very surprised if this makes them change track.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on November 28, 2022, 11:23:45 AM
Where did it say take a vaccine, would stop it passing on to someone? Said no such thing. Just like taking the flu jab yearly.,not stop you getting it, just lessen the effects of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 28, 2022, 11:35:02 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 28, 2022, 11:23:45 AM
Where did it day take a vaccine, woukd stop it passing on to someone? Said no such thing. Just like taking the flu jab yearly not stop you getting it, just lessen the effects of it.

But the lessening of the effects of of it can make you less infectious to other people, so you are less likely to pass it on.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on November 28, 2022, 11:43:21 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 28, 2022, 11:11:12 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 28, 2022, 10:22:18 AM
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/28/clashes-in-shanghai-as-protests-over-zero-covid-policy-grip-china

Major trouble in China over their zero covid policy by the sounds of it

China are well used to these protests. They'll simply crush them. I would be very surprised if this makes them change track.
It's  stupid policy . It is holding back the economy and chinese society
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on November 28, 2022, 05:06:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 28, 2022, 11:43:21 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 28, 2022, 11:11:12 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 28, 2022, 10:22:18 AM
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/28/clashes-in-shanghai-as-protests-over-zero-covid-policy-grip-china

Major trouble in China over their zero covid policy by the sounds of it

China are well used to these protests. They'll simply crush them. I would be very surprised if this makes them change track.
It's  stupid policy . It is holding back the economy and chinese society

Totally. But it is the government policy and if they have to incarcerate a few thousand and send a few hundred to their graves to enforce it they will.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Eire90 on November 28, 2022, 06:02:03 PM
has mick wallace and claire daly or whatever her name is called the china protests a cia operation yet.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on November 28, 2022, 09:31:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 28, 2022, 05:06:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 28, 2022, 11:43:21 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 28, 2022, 11:11:12 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 28, 2022, 10:22:18 AM
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/28/clashes-in-shanghai-as-protests-over-zero-covid-policy-grip-china

Major trouble in China over their zero covid policy by the sounds of it

China are well used to these protests. They'll simply crush them. I would be very surprised if this makes them change track.
It's  stupid policy . It is holding back the economy and chinese society

Totally. But it is the government policy and if they have to incarcerate a few thousand and send a few hundred to their graves to enforce it they will.

They've protected approximately 400 million people from long covid. They're hoping for improved anti viral drugs or more effective vaccines to come along in the next year or 2. Their scientists think the west is going to be destroyed with the long term effects of covid leaving western economies unable to function because of a lack of work force.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on November 28, 2022, 10:25:43 PM
What does China know about the virus that the rest of the world doesn't to be still be using these methods of containment ? did the virus escape from a lab ? Is the virus man made?
Why aren't they using mRNA vaccines like the rest of the world are using ?
Not suspicious at all
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on November 28, 2022, 10:46:12 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 28, 2022, 10:25:43 PM
What does China know about the virus that the rest of the world doesn't to be still be using these methods of containment ? did the virus escape from a lab ? Is the virus man made?
Why aren't they using mRNA vaccines like the rest of the world are using ?
Not suspicious at all
Whats going on in China has nothing to do with covid.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on November 28, 2022, 10:56:40 PM
Quote from: lenny on November 28, 2022, 09:31:00 PM
Quote from: trailer on November 28, 2022, 05:06:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 28, 2022, 11:43:21 AM
Quote from: trailer on November 28, 2022, 11:11:12 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 28, 2022, 10:22:18 AM
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/28/clashes-in-shanghai-as-protests-over-zero-covid-policy-grip-china

Major trouble in China over their zero covid policy by the sounds of it

China are well used to these protests. They'll simply crush them. I would be very surprised if this makes them change track.
It's  stupid policy . It is holding back the economy and chinese society

Totally. But it is the government policy and if they have to incarcerate a few thousand and send a few hundred to their graves to enforce it they will.

They've protected approximately 400 million people from long covid. They're hoping for improved anti viral drugs or more effective vaccines to come along in the next year or 2. Their scientists think the west is going to be destroyed with the long term effects of covid leaving western economies unable to function because of a lack of work force.

Actually interesting to know what their motivation is for zero covid policy. Where did you read this?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on November 29, 2022, 01:10:31 AM
Interesting point that data from Hong Kong shows that two shots of Pfizer were better than two shots of the Chinese vaccination, but if you get a third dose then the Chinese vaccine more or less catches up, certainly it would provide useful protection if you got it.
I'm not quite sure why they didn't use their powers of coercion in making people get vaccines.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: shawshank on December 01, 2022, 12:44:59 PM
A summary
https://twitter.com/liz_wheeler/status/1598023126683881472?s=46&t=InnSMhxo-t9VbbwYo5dayA (https://twitter.com/liz_wheeler/status/1598023126683881472?s=46&t=InnSMhxo-t9VbbwYo5dayA)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 01, 2022, 12:52:15 PM
Quote from: shawshank on December 01, 2022, 12:44:59 PM
A summary
https://twitter.com/liz_wheeler/status/1598023126683881472?s=46&t=InnSMhxo-t9VbbwYo5dayA (https://twitter.com/liz_wheeler/status/1598023126683881472?s=46&t=InnSMhxo-t9VbbwYo5dayA)

A complete waste of space.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 20, 2022, 01:08:59 PM
Covid levels in Dublin sewerage. There was feck all around Halloween, but quite a bit more now. With people mingling there will be a bit of pressure on health care facilities next week.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkWwX4NWAAIWCXe?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on December 20, 2022, 01:36:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 20, 2022, 01:08:59 PM
Covid levels in Dublin sewerage. There was feck all around Halloween, but quite a bit more now. With people mingling there will be a bit of pressure on health care facilities next week.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkWwX4NWAAIWCXe?format=jpg&name=small)
time for another booster
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 20, 2022, 01:36:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on December 20, 2022, 01:36:13 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 20, 2022, 01:08:59 PM
Covid levels in Dublin sewerage. There was feck all around Halloween, but quite a bit more now. With people mingling there will be a bit of pressure on health care facilities next week.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkWwX4NWAAIWCXe?format=jpg&name=small)
time for another booster
Here we go again.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 20, 2022, 03:41:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on December 20, 2022, 01:08:59 PM
Covid levels in Dublin sewerage. There was feck all around Halloween, but quite a bit more now. With people mingling there will be a bit of pressure on health care facilities next week.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkWwX4NWAAIWCXe?format=jpg&name=small)

It's going to be the same every year. Same as flu.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on December 20, 2022, 04:42:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 20, 2022, 03:41:39 PM
It's going to be the same every year. Same as flu.

If it is like flu and confined to 3 months of the year, then it isn't so bad. You could immunise vulnerable people in October against the latest variant and they would be protected for a few months. But there is a significant bulge on that chart in July which does not happen for flu, except in Australia.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on December 20, 2022, 04:56:27 PM
You say its like the flu, its not, I had the flu before, but 2nd time I got Covid I was severely sick for near 12 wks, on nearly 700 tablets in 10 wks, what flu does that. Have picked up another chest infection recently, coughing up  blood 6days,straight with already 1 trip to A&E last week, I love it when Covid compared to the normal flu when it attacks a weakness in anybody system.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on December 20, 2022, 07:45:13 PM
Wasn't talking about the severity of the disease, just comparing the annual surge in illness that the winter months brings. The summer increase - will be interesting to see if it's repeated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: general_lee on December 21, 2022, 09:07:48 AM
Anyone got this thing going about that isn't covid? Shakes, night sweats, dry cough, high temp etc. Flu I think they call it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on December 21, 2022, 09:13:15 AM
Quote from: general_lee on December 21, 2022, 09:07:48 AM
Anyone got this thing going about that isn't covid? Shakes, night sweats, dry cough, high temp etc. Flu I think they call it.
Sounds serious better isolate yourself.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on December 24, 2022, 08:31:59 AM
https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2022/1223/1343549-darren-o-connor-long-covid/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 07:09:40 AM
https://www.midlands103.com/news/midlands-news/near-40-increase-in-deaths-in-q2-of-2022/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/overwhelmed-health-service-is-in-need-of-intensive-care-itself-tlzwsjlqn

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41019860.html

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20220916-1


So the prediction and obvious consequences of lockdowns are happening all over Europe with health services now a complete shambles and kids with no immune symptoms overwhelming hospitals.

The MSM are all gone quiet on this too, I suppose they have to as they played along with the farce the whole way through.





Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 02, 2023, 07:53:27 AM
Quote from: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 07:09:40 AM
https://www.midlands103.com/news/midlands-news/near-40-increase-in-deaths-in-q2-of-2022/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/overwhelmed-health-service-is-in-need-of-intensive-care-itself-tlzwsjlqn

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41019860.html

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20220916-1


So the prediction and obvious consequences of lockdowns are happening all over Europe with health services now a complete shambles and kids with no immune symptoms overwhelming hospitals.

The MSM are all gone quiet on this too, I suppose they have to as they played along with the farce the whole way through.

Covid is still rife, we're going through the normal flu season also and people are also getting bad colds. Even in a normal winter season the nhs is stretched to capacity but we now have huge numbers of covid added into the mix. Can you not see this is exactly why there were lockdowns in the first place? Lockdowns helped prevent the nhs being overwhelmed over the last couple of winters.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 08:00:01 AM
QuoteCovid is still rife,

It's a head cold, always was mild after the very first wave in March 2020.

The lockdowns have caused a housing crisis, (part of) massive inflation, lack of healthcare staff and new entrants, kids immune symptoms to be garbage, a backlog in treatments in cancer and other illnesses thereby causing a year where we had exceptional excess deaths in Europe (heatwave will be blamed though) .....

So you don't think lockdowns have caused the present state?

Anyhow you enjoy your masking
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 02, 2023, 08:15:19 AM
Quote from: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 08:00:01 AM
QuoteCovid is still rife,

It's a head cold, always was mild after the very first wave in March 2020.

The lockdowns have caused a housing crisis, (part of) massive inflation, lack of healthcare staff and new entrants, kids immune symptoms to be garbage, a backlog in treatments in cancer and other illnesses thereby causing a year where we had exceptional excess deaths in Europe (heatwave will be blamed though) .....

So you don't think lockdowns have caused the present state?

Anyhow you enjoy your masking

I'll take my information on covid from virologists and scientists and not from some anti science, conspiracy theorist keyboard warrior.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 02, 2023, 08:42:33 AM
Quote from: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 08:00:01 AM
QuoteCovid is still rife,

It's a head cold, always was mild after the very first wave in March 2020.

The lockdowns have caused a housing crisis, (part of) massive inflation, lack of healthcare staff and new entrants, kids immune symptoms to be garbage, a backlog in treatments in cancer and other illnesses thereby causing a year where we had exceptional excess deaths in Europe (heatwave will be blamed though) .....

So you don't think lockdowns have caused the present state?

Anyhow you enjoy your masking
My wife's aunt is currently in ICU with it. I'll let her know it's a head cold and to shake it off.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 02, 2023, 09:05:26 AM
Mass vaccination means Covid levels are much lower this winter, 3 years after the onset.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 02, 2023, 09:14:41 AM
Quote from: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 08:00:01 AM
QuoteCovid is still rife,

It's a head cold, always was mild after the very first wave in March 2020.

The lockdowns have caused a housing crisis, (part of) massive inflation, lack of healthcare staff and new entrants, kids immune symptoms to be garbage, a backlog in treatments in cancer and other illnesses thereby causing a year where we had exceptional excess deaths in Europe (heatwave will be blamed though) .....

So you don't think lockdowns have caused the present state?

Anyhow you enjoy your masking

My das friend died of it in late 2020 (late 40s). He himself was hospitalised in 2021 for a week with it, was unable to work for 4 months and just physically hasn't been the same since.

Head cold.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 02, 2023, 09:56:09 AM
Quote from: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 08:00:01 AM
QuoteCovid is still rife,

It's a head cold, always was mild after the very first wave in March 2020.

The lockdowns have caused a housing crisis, (part of) massive inflation, lack of healthcare staff and new entrants, kids immune symptoms to be garbage, a backlog in treatments in cancer and other illnesses thereby causing a year where we had exceptional excess deaths in Europe (heatwave will be blamed though) .....

So you don't think lockdowns have caused the present state?

Anyhow you enjoy your masking
Central Banks caused inflation and the housing crisis.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 01:17:29 PM
It is and was a head cold for the majority of the population and statistically people die from respiratory illness every day.

Estimates in the U.K. are that 300 to 500 people are dying per week due to health negligence/ been left on trollies.

Epidemiologists were basing their assessments on the present back during the epidemic, the risk assessors (or scaremongering nut jobs) during the epidemic didn't bother assessing the long term risks when factoring in potential deaths and causes of the same.

Instead of investing in hand gel, masks, testing and tracing and all the advertising on RTE and the MSM we should've followed Sweden. We also could've redirected this wasted money on capacity and improving our health services. Instead businesses that should never have been closed and bailed out with taxpayer money ought never have been shut.

Some doctors warned of this happening at the time but were gagged in the MSM.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 01:23:49 PM
https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/i-lost-my-job-for-speaking-out-but-i-have-no-regrets-dr-martin-feeley-on-his-coronavirus-views-39585808.html

I'd rather take my advice from Martin Feeley who's interview back in the day and predictions has turned out to be correct, it was on the Scare Byrne show on RTE , that was the end of any further interviews.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 01:27:11 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2023/01/02/childrens-hospitals-seeing-astronomical-number-of-young-people-self-harming/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 01:32:55 PM
https://m.facebook.com/radiomidwest/videos/dr-martin-feeley-is-trending-tonight-on-twitter-after-the-prime-time-show-did-yo/815986462471125/


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/draconian-restrictions-around-covid-19-condemned-by-hse-doctor-1.4352701
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 02, 2023, 01:38:37 PM
It's not a head cold you dick! Talk to anybody who took it real bad and how bad they were, I wasn't well for 6 months, still poor from it, on 10+ tablets a day, going from 4 times a week in the gym to can't walk 200/300m without been totally fucked!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 02, 2023, 01:46:39 PM
The lockdowns were too Draconian we get it however this was very serious, could yet be, so to say it has just been a head cold since 2020 is naive tbh.

I don't really understand why people can't hold a view other than it's a load of shite or you should never leave the house...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rossfan on January 02, 2023, 03:37:10 PM
Can the mods delete the false information posts?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Dire Ear on January 02, 2023, 03:56:47 PM
You wouldnt have 19.3k then.... ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 05:29:23 PM
Sorry for anyone that did get a bad dose, seems the vaccine was only just randomly effective.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on January 07, 2023, 05:50:55 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 02, 2023, 08:42:33 AM
Quote from: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 08:00:01 AM
QuoteCovid is still rife,

It's a head cold, always was mild after the very first wave in March 2020.

The lockdowns have caused a housing crisis, (part of) massive inflation, lack of healthcare staff and new entrants, kids immune symptoms to be garbage, a backlog in treatments in cancer and other illnesses thereby causing a year where we had exceptional excess deaths in Europe (heatwave will be blamed though) .....

So you don't think lockdowns have caused the present state?

Anyhow you enjoy your masking
My wife's aunt is currently in ICU with it. I'll let her know it's a head cold and to shake it off.

Is she fully vaxed and boosted? What is the official percentage of those vaxed in Ireland? What is the discrepancy between uptake of first jab and totally boosted?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 07, 2023, 06:05:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 02, 2023, 03:37:10 PM
Can the mods delete the false information posts?

They'd be a lot of deleting on this stream then.

But sure we all have our own version of the Truth at this stage.

Most have gone so far down the rabbit hole at this stage that it'd be hard to turn back and admit they were fooled on either side.

I know what I believe and deleting peoples opinion from a forum won't change that.

So if you want to go down the road of Censorship, go ahead. Might as well join the rest of the sterile world.



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 07, 2023, 06:21:05 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 07, 2023, 06:05:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on January 02, 2023, 03:37:10 PM
Can the mods delete the false information posts?

They'd be a lot of deleting on this stream then.

But sure we all have our own version of the Truth at this stage.

Most have gone so far down the rabbit hole at this stage that it'd be hard to turn back and admit they were fooled on either side.

I know what I believe and deleting peoples opinion from a forum won't change that.

So if you want to go down the road of Censorship, go ahead. Might as well join the rest of the sterile world.

Alternative facts?

The right wing really have swelled their numbers if this forum is anything to go by. Would have been maybe 2 /3  posters on here historically who you'd describe as right wing, now there must be a dozen post scam.. , I mean pandemic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2023, 06:28:51 PM
So it was a pandemic or it wasn't? You'll be saying there was no moon landing and the holocaust never happened next
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 07, 2023, 06:48:07 PM
Well judging on bird flu and its kill rate, I say if the human equivalent ever come to pass, it wipe out 90% of the population cause we be that f**king stupid to pay no heed to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 07, 2023, 07:11:01 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 07, 2023, 05:50:55 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 02, 2023, 08:42:33 AM
Quote from: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 08:00:01 AM
QuoteCovid is still rife,

It's a head cold, always was mild after the very first wave in March 2020.

The lockdowns have caused a housing crisis, (part of) massive inflation, lack of healthcare staff and new entrants, kids immune symptoms to be garbage, a backlog in treatments in cancer and other illnesses thereby causing a year where we had exceptional excess deaths in Europe (heatwave will be blamed though) .....

So you don't think lockdowns have caused the present state?

Anyhow you enjoy your masking
My wife's aunt is currently in ICU with it. I'll let her know it's a head cold and to shake it off.

Is she fully vaxed and boosted? What is the official percentage of those vaxed in Ireland? What is the discrepancy between uptake of first jab and totally boosted?

Don't know what level she was. I'd assume boosted but no idea when she received it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 07, 2023, 07:25:14 PM
Time to figure out what lab in wuhan  this virus came from , about time we found the source.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2023, 07:30:09 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 07, 2023, 07:25:14 PM
Time to figure out what lab in wuhan  this virus came from , about time we found the source.

Was in Area 51 I heard, black taxi driver told me. Said that Bill Gates bought the moon and is having parties there every week!

Think he's wrong though
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 07, 2023, 07:36:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2023, 07:30:09 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 07, 2023, 07:25:14 PM
Time to figure out what lab in wuhan  this virus came from , about time we found the source.

Was in Area 51 I heard, black taxi driver told me. Said that Bill Gates bought the moon and is having parties there every week!

Think he's wrong though

It's someone's truth though
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2023, 07:38:46 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 07, 2023, 07:36:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2023, 07:30:09 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 07, 2023, 07:25:14 PM
Time to figure out what lab in wuhan  this virus came from , about time we found the source.

Was in Area 51 I heard, black taxi driver told me. Said that Bill Gates bought the moon and is having parties there every week!

Think he's wrong though

It's someone's truth though

If you believe in god you can believe anything
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 07, 2023, 07:48:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2023, 07:30:09 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 07, 2023, 07:25:14 PM
Time to figure out what lab in wuhan  this virus came from , about time we found the source.

Was in Area 51 I heard, black taxi driver told me. Said that Bill Gates bought the moon and is having parties there every week!

Think he's wrong though
silly man
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 07, 2023, 08:19:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2023, 06:28:51 PM
So it was a pandemic or it wasn't? You'll be saying there was no moon landing and the holocaust never happened next

Being from Northern Ireland, I'd expect you to not believe everything your Government tells you.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2023, 08:59:38 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 07, 2023, 08:19:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2023, 06:28:51 PM
So it was a pandemic or it wasn't? You'll be saying there was no moon landing and the holocaust never happened next

Being from Northern Ireland, I'd expect you to not believe everything your Government tells you.

Where's that?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 07, 2023, 09:22:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2023, 08:59:38 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 07, 2023, 08:19:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2023, 06:28:51 PM
So it was a pandemic or it wasn't? You'll be saying there was no moon landing and the holocaust never happened next

Being from Northern Ireland, I'd expect you to not believe everything your Government tells you.

Where's that?



(https://www.google.com/maps/vt/data=zreDVE-a-ffRhj8CJ7d2hOjRXhWrkkM_MN2FMqU60CJJS1mSpZvvIUXG2z3crBmrYQgB-eO7rbpC2DCnxQOoS8DjjkiQyK3WFPgBTx-vKYzfnkNQe2X0Mty_F9QNMFnWWFi8_2GktlIbd9vEQ06_KP8rKon432cUUTfMdyzV_oNFEW4lYMrwN0sshDl9Pso7cihQW9XtkESwvSeBs2N90ODtYKtao3bJRls-xiFJznT8XkE4djc)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AustinPowers on January 07, 2023, 09:30:25 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 07, 2023, 08:19:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2023, 06:28:51 PM
So it was a pandemic or it wasn't? You'll be saying there was no moon landing and the holocaust never happened next

Being from Northern Ireland, I'd expect you to not believe everything your Government tells you.

Or  any government,  for that matter
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2023, 09:32:56 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 07, 2023, 09:22:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2023, 08:59:38 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 07, 2023, 08:19:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2023, 06:28:51 PM
So it was a pandemic or it wasn't? You'll be saying there was no moon landing and the holocaust never happened next

Being from Northern Ireland, I'd expect you to not believe everything your Government tells you.

Where's that?



(https://www.google.com/maps/vt/data=zreDVE-a-ffRhj8CJ7d2hOjRXhWrkkM_MN2FMqU60CJJS1mSpZvvIUXG2z3crBmrYQgB-eO7rbpC2DCnxQOoS8DjjkiQyK3WFPgBTx-vKYzfnkNQe2X0Mty_F9QNMFnWWFi8_2GktlIbd9vEQ06_KP8rKon432cUUTfMdyzV_oNFEW4lYMrwN0sshDl9Pso7cihQW9XtkESwvSeBs2N90ODtYKtao3bJRls-xiFJznT8XkE4djc)

2023 and still you'd vote the same as they did over a 100 years ago...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 07, 2023, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2023, 09:32:56 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 07, 2023, 09:22:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2023, 08:59:38 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 07, 2023, 08:19:49 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 07, 2023, 06:28:51 PM
So it was a pandemic or it wasn't? You'll be saying there was no moon landing and the holocaust never happened next

Being from Northern Ireland, I'd expect you to not believe everything your Government tells you.

Where's that?



(https://www.google.com/maps/vt/data=zreDVE-a-ffRhj8CJ7d2hOjRXhWrkkM_MN2FMqU60CJJS1mSpZvvIUXG2z3crBmrYQgB-eO7rbpC2DCnxQOoS8DjjkiQyK3WFPgBTx-vKYzfnkNQe2X0Mty_F9QNMFnWWFi8_2GktlIbd9vEQ06_KP8rKon432cUUTfMdyzV_oNFEW4lYMrwN0sshDl9Pso7cihQW9XtkESwvSeBs2N90ODtYKtao3bJRls-xiFJznT8XkE4djc)

2023 and still you'd vote the same as they did over a 100 years ago...

Ok lets get back to the theme that you as a person who lived in Northern Ireland was subject to decades of Government lies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2023, 09:58:33 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 02, 2023, 09:14:41 AM
Quote from: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 08:00:01 AM
QuoteCovid is still rife,

It's a head cold, always was mild after the very first wave in March 2020.

The lockdowns have caused a housing crisis, (part of) massive inflation, lack of healthcare staff and new entrants, kids immune symptoms to be garbage, a backlog in treatments in cancer and other illnesses thereby causing a year where we had exceptional excess deaths in Europe (heatwave will be blamed though) .....

So you don't think lockdowns have caused the present state?

Anyhow you enjoy your masking

My das friend died of it in late 2020 (late 40s). He himself was hospitalised in 2021 for a week with it, was unable to work for 4 months and just physically hasn't been the same since.

Head cold.

Yep.

I'd a relative die after two spells of being intubated. My own mother was hospitalized with it. Several people from businesses I frequent died.

Just a sniffle though. ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on January 07, 2023, 10:07:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2023, 09:58:33 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 02, 2023, 09:14:41 AM
Quote from: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 08:00:01 AM
QuoteCovid is still rife,

It's a head cold, always was mild after the very first wave in March 2020.

The lockdowns have caused a housing crisis, (part of) massive inflation, lack of healthcare staff and new entrants, kids immune symptoms to be garbage, a backlog in treatments in cancer and other illnesses thereby causing a year where we had exceptional excess deaths in Europe (heatwave will be blamed though) .....

So you don't think lockdowns have caused the present state?

Anyhow you enjoy your masking

My das friend died of it in late 2020 (late 40s). He himself was hospitalised in 2021 for a week with it, was unable to work for 4 months and just physically hasn't been the same since.

Head cold.

Yep.

I'd a relative die after two spells of being intubated. My own mother was hospitalized with it. Several people from businesses I frequent died.

Just a sniffle though. ::)

And the penny still hasn't dropped? Seems never will at this stage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2023, 10:10:48 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 07, 2023, 10:07:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2023, 09:58:33 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 02, 2023, 09:14:41 AM
Quote from: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 08:00:01 AM
QuoteCovid is still rife,

It's a head cold, always was mild after the very first wave in March 2020.

The lockdowns have caused a housing crisis, (part of) massive inflation, lack of healthcare staff and new entrants, kids immune symptoms to be garbage, a backlog in treatments in cancer and other illnesses thereby causing a year where we had exceptional excess deaths in Europe (heatwave will be blamed though) .....

So you don't think lockdowns have caused the present state?

Anyhow you enjoy your masking

My das friend died of it in late 2020 (late 40s). He himself was hospitalised in 2021 for a week with it, was unable to work for 4 months and just physically hasn't been the same since.

Head cold.

Yep.

I'd a relative die after two spells of being intubated. My own mother was hospitalized with it. Several people from businesses I frequent died.

Just a sniffle though. ::)

And the penny still hasn't dropped? Seems never will at this stage.

Great. You're back.

And making as much sense as ever.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on January 07, 2023, 10:17:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2023, 10:10:48 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 07, 2023, 10:07:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2023, 09:58:33 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 02, 2023, 09:14:41 AM
Quote from: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 08:00:01 AM
QuoteCovid is still rife,

It's a head cold, always was mild after the very first wave in March 2020.

The lockdowns have caused a housing crisis, (part of) massive inflation, lack of healthcare staff and new entrants, kids immune symptoms to be garbage, a backlog in treatments in cancer and other illnesses thereby causing a year where we had exceptional excess deaths in Europe (heatwave will be blamed though) .....

So you don't think lockdowns have caused the present state?

Anyhow you enjoy your masking

My das friend died of it in late 2020 (late 40s). He himself was hospitalised in 2021 for a week with it, was unable to work for 4 months and just physically hasn't been the same since.

Head cold.

Yep.

I'd a relative die after two spells of being intubated. My own mother was hospitalized with it. Several people from businesses I frequent died.

Just a sniffle though. ::)

And the penny still hasn't dropped? Seems never will at this stage.

Great. You're back.

And making as much sense as ever.

Thanks, because unlike you I always ask questions
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 07, 2023, 10:20:49 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 07, 2023, 10:17:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2023, 10:10:48 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 07, 2023, 10:07:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2023, 09:58:33 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 02, 2023, 09:14:41 AM
Quote from: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 08:00:01 AM
QuoteCovid is still rife,

It's a head cold, always was mild after the very first wave in March 2020.

The lockdowns have caused a housing crisis, (part of) massive inflation, lack of healthcare staff and new entrants, kids immune symptoms to be garbage, a backlog in treatments in cancer and other illnesses thereby causing a year where we had exceptional excess deaths in Europe (heatwave will be blamed though) .....

So you don't think lockdowns have caused the present state?

Anyhow you enjoy your masking

My das friend died of it in late 2020 (late 40s). He himself was hospitalised in 2021 for a week with it, was unable to work for 4 months and just physically hasn't been the same since.

Head cold.

Yep.

I'd a relative die after two spells of being intubated. My own mother was hospitalized with it. Several people from businesses I frequent died.

Just a sniffle though. ::)

And the penny still hasn't dropped? Seems never will at this stage.

Great. You're back.

And making as much sense as ever.

Thanks, because unlike you I always ask questions

You're always "in the know", that's for sure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on January 07, 2023, 10:51:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2023, 10:20:49 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 07, 2023, 10:17:49 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2023, 10:10:48 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 07, 2023, 10:07:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2023, 09:58:33 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 02, 2023, 09:14:41 AM
Quote from: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 08:00:01 AM
QuoteCovid is still rife,

It's a head cold, always was mild after the very first wave in March 2020.

The lockdowns have caused a housing crisis, (part of) massive inflation, lack of healthcare staff and new entrants, kids immune symptoms to be garbage, a backlog in treatments in cancer and other illnesses thereby causing a year where we had exceptional excess deaths in Europe (heatwave will be blamed though) .....

So you don't think lockdowns have caused the present state?

Anyhow you enjoy your masking

My das friend died of it in late 2020 (late 40s). He himself was hospitalised in 2021 for a week with it, was unable to work for 4 months and just physically hasn't been the same since.

Head cold.

Yep.

I'd a relative die after two spells of being intubated. My own mother was hospitalized with it. Several people from businesses I frequent died.

Just a sniffle though. ::)

And the penny still hasn't dropped? Seems never will at this stage.

Great. You're back.

And making as much sense as ever.

Thanks, because unlike you I always ask questions

You're always "in the know", that's for sure.

Trying to help my fellow man with truth and love
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 07, 2023, 10:51:51 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 07, 2023, 10:07:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2023, 09:58:33 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 02, 2023, 09:14:41 AM
Quote from: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 08:00:01 AM
QuoteCovid is still rife,

It's a head cold, always was mild after the very first wave in March 2020.

The lockdowns have caused a housing crisis, (part of) massive inflation, lack of healthcare staff and new entrants, kids immune symptoms to be garbage, a backlog in treatments in cancer and other illnesses thereby causing a year where we had exceptional excess deaths in Europe (heatwave will be blamed though) .....

So you don't think lockdowns have caused the present state?

Anyhow you enjoy your masking

My das friend died of it in late 2020 (late 40s). He himself was hospitalised in 2021 for a week with it, was unable to work for 4 months and just physically hasn't been the same since.

Head cold.

Yep.

I'd a relative die after two spells of being intubated. My own mother was hospitalized with it. Several people from businesses I frequent died.

Just a sniffle though. ::)

And the penny still hasn't dropped? Seems never will at this stage.

Give it a rattle there?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on January 08, 2023, 10:08:09 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 07, 2023, 10:07:56 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 07, 2023, 09:58:33 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 02, 2023, 09:14:41 AM
Quote from: highorlow on January 02, 2023, 08:00:01 AM
QuoteCovid is still rife,

It's a head cold, always was mild after the very first wave in March 2020.

The lockdowns have caused a housing crisis, (part of) massive inflation, lack of healthcare staff and new entrants, kids immune symptoms to be garbage, a backlog in treatments in cancer and other illnesses thereby causing a year where we had exceptional excess deaths in Europe (heatwave will be blamed though) .....

So you don't think lockdowns have caused the present state?

Anyhow you enjoy your masking

My das friend died of it in late 2020 (late 40s). He himself was hospitalised in 2021 for a week with it, was unable to work for 4 months and just physically hasn't been the same since.

Head cold.

Yep.

I'd a relative die after two spells of being intubated. My own mother was hospitalized with it. Several people from businesses I frequent died.

Just a sniffle though. ::)

And the penny still hasn't dropped? Seems never will at this stage.
Go on then, explain it to us!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: highorlow on January 08, 2023, 07:00:20 PM
https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/01/up-to-500-deaths-a-week-due-to-ae-delays-says-senior-medic

People were all out on the street backslapping each other a while back. It was pretty obvious what was coming down the tracks.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 08, 2023, 07:32:56 PM
The clapping was just a big front from the tories to cover up the state the nhs is in. Now they'll blame Covid which while it hasn't helped is far from the key reason. Charlatans.

NHS staff I knew were affronted by the clapping. Pay them right, staff it right and cut out half the red tape bs and that would be a start
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 08, 2023, 07:35:44 PM
Who started the clapping, I thought it was a farce at the time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Hereiam on January 08, 2023, 07:56:50 PM
So was the nurse's dancing in the corridors
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2023, 08:38:38 PM
New year, same wankers...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 08, 2023, 09:04:03 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 08, 2023, 07:35:44 PM
Who started the clapping, I thought it was a farce at the time.
Did it start in France and was copied? Maybe that was something else.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 08, 2023, 09:36:21 PM
Quote from: highorlow on January 08, 2023, 07:00:20 PM
https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/01/up-to-500-deaths-a-week-due-to-ae-delays-says-senior-medic

People were all out on the street backslapping each other a while back. It was pretty obvious what was coming down the tracks.
Covid and flu starting to put pressure back on the NHS. Not good. The NHS is a mess.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 08, 2023, 10:59:01 PM
Here the Govt will clap you but not give a decent pay rise, sum's them up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on January 13, 2023, 12:06:24 PM
https://gript.ie/facebook-reveals-we-censored-true-content-about-covid-vaccines/

"Don't give them any air" more "mis-information", "that right wing rag"  ;)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 13, 2023, 03:36:55 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 08, 2023, 09:04:03 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 08, 2023, 07:35:44 PM
Who started the clapping, I thought it was a farce at the time.
Did it start in France and was copied? Maybe that was something else.

Perhaps it started in Italy, where things were worst at the beginning and was copied elsewhere.
No harm in it, if you then sort things out after the Covid passed by, which they did not do.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 13, 2023, 03:38:50 PM
They were never going to though. Some of the doctors I know found it offensive and I don't blame them. Hypocrisy in the UK at least.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 13, 2023, 09:10:05 PM
It was good natured here in NYC.

My local hospital was making world headlines with the absolute horror show that was being inflicted on them in the early months of Covid. Nurses and doctors were getting sick and dying, never mind patients. Freezer trailers were being trucked in to store bodies. Everyone understood that a lack of pandemic planning and massive bed and PPE shortages was partly to blame for the hand they had been dealt, but that doesn't mean that those clapping weren't genuinely grateful to those people who had no choice but to risk their health and lives in the face of a novel disease. It's not like no one knew a nurse or doctor or porter first hand.

It's amazing how quickly people forget and how cynical so many are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 13, 2023, 09:18:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 13, 2023, 09:10:05 PM
It was good natured here in NYC.

My local hospital was making world headlines with the absolute horror show that was being inflicted on them in the early months of Covid. Nurses and doctors were getting sick and dying, never mind patients. Freezer trailers were being trucked in to store bodies. Everyone understood that a lack of pandemic planning and massive bed and PPE shortages was partly to blame for the hand they had been dealt, but that doesn't mean that those clapping weren't genuinely grateful to those people who had no choice but to risk their health and lives in the face of a novel disease. It's not like no one knew a nurse or doctor or porter first hand.

It's amazing how quickly people forget and how cynical so many are.
I'd agree with that to a point tbh. But its disgraceful that the government haven't backed this up with proper pay, conditions and staffing levels for health services.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 13, 2023, 09:55:03 PM
I don't doubt the vast majority were genuine but for example Tory MPs calling for it was sickening given what they were and are doing to the health service.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2023, 11:41:02 PM
If you want the nurses paid more we need to be taxed more, I'm happy for that let's get it done
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: red hander on January 14, 2023, 12:06:01 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2023, 11:41:02 PM
If you want the nurses paid more we need to be taxed more, I'm happy for that let's get it done

f**k, you are so full of shit. I've no problem paying more tax for this. But these Tory cnuts forked out billions during covid to their mates in PPE contracts that were completely illegal, and a complete f**k up of a test and trace scheme given to another Tory f**k pig in the form of Dildo Harding that cost further billions,  And these wankers had the audacity to stand out clapping for health workers. These f**kers OWE THE nurses. You're an uneducated idiot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 12:09:28 AM
Quote from: red hander on January 14, 2023, 12:06:01 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2023, 11:41:02 PM
If you want the nurses paid more we need to be taxed more, I'm happy for that let's get it done

f**k, you are so full of shit. I've no problem paying more tax for this. But these Tory cnuts forked out billions during covid to their mates in PPE contracts that were completely illegal, and a complete f**k up of a test and trace scheme given to another Tory f**k pig in the form of Dildo Harding that cost further billions,  And these wankers had the audacity to stand out clapping for health workers. These f**kers OWE THE nurses. You're an uneducated idiot.

So who's paying for it? It comes out of the public purse either we want better services or we don't.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: red hander on January 14, 2023, 12:20:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 12:09:28 AM
Quote from: red hander on January 14, 2023, 12:06:01 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 13, 2023, 11:41:02 PM
If you want the nurses paid more we need to be taxed more, I'm happy for that let's get it done

f**k, you are so full of shit. I've no problem paying more tax for this. But these Tory cnuts forked out billions during covid to their mates in PPE contracts that were completely illegal, and a complete f**k up of a test and trace scheme given to another Tory f**k pig in the form of Dildo Harding that cost further billions,  And these wankers had the audacity to stand out clapping for health workers. These f**kers OWE THE nurses. You're an uneducated idiot.

So who's paying for it? It comes out of the public purse either we want better services or we don't.

We're paying for it. Whats your point? They have been in power for 14 years, and they have had deliberate policy to run it down. The billions they have wasted would cover the pay demands 200 times over. How thick are you? Jesus. Blame the workers, not the cnuts responsible.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 12:23:43 AM
It doesn't matter who's in power ya balloon, they have been underpaid under staffed and the NHS has been crumbling for years, if you think it's just happened under the Tory government then you are thick as f**k.

Now if you want a better service now, cough it up
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: red hander on January 14, 2023, 12:40:20 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 12:23:43 AM
It doesn't matter who's in power ya balloon, they have been underpaid under staffed and the NHS has been crumbling for years, if you think it's just happened under the Tory government then you are thick as f**k.

Now if you want a better service now, cough it up

Personal abuse, but I won't going whining to mods like you did cos you're just a right wing cnut. It's been crumbling for years because the torys have been in charge you f**king gobshite.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 14, 2023, 12:40:51 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 12:23:43 AM
It doesn't matter who's in power ya balloon, they have been underpaid under staffed and the NHS has been crumbling for years, if you think it's just happened under the Tory government then you are thick as f**k.

Now if you want a better service now, cough it up

Well the Financial Times think there is a definite pattern of modest improvement under Labour and decline under the Tories, but they are likely thick as f**k.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fkpw8GrWAAEtYWP?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 01:18:07 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 14, 2023, 12:40:51 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 12:23:43 AM
It doesn't matter who's in power ya balloon, they have been underpaid under staffed and the NHS has been crumbling for years, if you think it's just happened under the Tory government then you are thick as f**k.

Now if you want a better service now, cough it up

Well the Financial Times think there is a definite pattern of modest improvement under Labour and decline under the Tories, but they are likely thick as f**k.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fkpw8GrWAAEtYWP?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)

So to fix it we still have to pay for it, though you don't live in the North, you'll be fine!

nurses have been under paid and under staffed ... in the last 20 years things have changed, the population has grown and we are living longer.

The demands need to be meant but how do we pay for it? There was still long waiting times made Blair and while there was progress, it was modest .

People need to realise you either want a good service or not, If you do, you have to pay for extra tax if you don't then it's private

I work in the health sector past 10 years, it's not getting better, and if Santa was in charge he'll still be asking "who's paying for this?"
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: red hander on January 14, 2023, 01:22:48 AM
No criticism of last 14 years. The cause. Says it all. Utterly pathetic. You're beneath contempt. I'd hate to be a colleague of yours in NHS.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 09:12:32 AM
You can do your little childish dance, the reality is who and where is the money coming from to pay nurses and the upgrades?

As for criticism that won't pay for things I can say the Tories have been Cnuts anytime they have been in government and have, since Thatcher, tried to privatise the health service but what will that do, we have absolutely no say in the matter.

We have no great records over here with trying to run the local government, can't even talk to each other so no faith in politicians to be fair
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 14, 2023, 10:05:02 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 09:12:32 AM
You can do your little childish dance, the reality is who and where is the money coming from to pay nurses and the upgrades?

As for criticism that won't pay for things I can say the Tories have been Cnuts anytime they have been in government and have, since Thatcher, tried to privatise the health service but what will that do, we have absolutely no say in the matter.

We have no great records over here with trying to run the local government, can't even talk to each other so no faith in politicians to be fair
I don't know about you but I pay more than enough in tax and NIC to expect a decent health service. The money is there being blown across the board, billions wasted on covid not to mention all the conflicts around the world the brits have stuck their nose into over the years. Between hospitals and roads being in a mess the UK looks more like a developing country than a developed one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 10:17:48 AM
So who is going to pay for it? Stop giving me reasons why. That's  not an answer, and I also get hammered tax
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 14, 2023, 10:44:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 10:17:48 AM
So who is going to pay for it? Stop giving me reasons why. That's  not an answer, and I also get hammered tax
I'm already f**king paying for it. So are you then! Jesus christ
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 14, 2023, 11:03:41 AM
Items dispensed in the North doubled from 2010 to 2022. Near the start of that period prescription charges were scrapped so its become a free for all. Its completely unsustainable.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 14, 2023, 11:34:46 AM
The system as it stands is designed to keep you perfectly dependent and sick. The only answer is do what ever you need to do to not be dependent and therefore not need to engage with it. Healthy looking doctors and nurses are even a rare breed now.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 14, 2023, 10:44:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 10:17:48 AM
So who is going to pay for it? Stop giving me reasons why. That's  not an answer, and I also get hammered tax
I'm already f**king paying for it. So are you then! Jesus christ

The point here is are you willing to pay more taxes to give the extra to the health service and nurses wages and so on?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2023, 12:21:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 14, 2023, 10:44:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 10:17:48 AM
So who is going to pay for it? Stop giving me reasons why. That's  not an answer, and I also get hammered tax
I'm already f**king paying for it. So are you then! Jesus christ

The point here is are you willing to pay more taxes to give the extra to the health service and nurses wages and so on?

Why are you not understanding that there is enough money being lifted in taxes to run an acceptable NHS. It's the Tory government that are nose deep in the trough that is the problem. Siphoning money out to their cronies rather than allocating it to the essential services.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 14, 2023, 12:26:34 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2023, 12:21:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 14, 2023, 10:44:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 10:17:48 AM
So who is going to pay for it? Stop giving me reasons why. That's  not an answer, and I also get hammered tax
I'm already f**king paying for it. So are you then! Jesus christ

The point here is are you willing to pay more taxes to give the extra to the health service and nurses wages and so on?

Why are you not understanding that there is enough money being lifted in taxes to run an acceptable NHS. It's the Tory government that are nose deep in the trough that is the problem. Siphoning money out to their cronies rather than allocating it to the essential services.
Because he's a contrary owl so and so? Lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 14, 2023, 12:34:02 PM
What happened to the brexit bus with we give the NHS £350 million a week. Some bollacks hit away with outright lies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 14, 2023, 12:41:43 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2023, 12:21:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 14, 2023, 10:44:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 10:17:48 AM
So who is going to pay for it? Stop giving me reasons why. That's  not an answer, and I also get hammered tax
I'm already f**king paying for it. So are you then! Jesus christ

The point here is are you willing to pay more taxes to give the extra to the health service and nurses wages and so on?

Why are you not understanding that there is enough money being lifted in taxes to run an acceptable NHS. It's the Tory government that are nose deep in the trough that is the problem. Siphoning money out to their cronies rather than allocating it to the essential services.

There is more money available to be spent by the executive in the North per capita  on healthcare than England, Scotland or Wales, yet we have the longest waiting lists and lowest life expectancy.

You can't blame the tories on that. Look closer to home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Saffrongael on January 14, 2023, 12:42:36 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 14, 2023, 12:41:43 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2023, 12:21:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 14, 2023, 10:44:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 10:17:48 AM
So who is going to pay for it? Stop giving me reasons why. That's  not an answer, and I also get hammered tax
I'm already f**king paying for it. So are you then! Jesus christ

The point here is are you willing to pay more taxes to give the extra to the health service and nurses wages and so on?

Why are you not understanding that there is enough money being lifted in taxes to run an acceptable NHS. It's the Tory government that are nose deep in the trough that is the problem. Siphoning money out to their cronies rather than allocating it to the essential services.

There is more money available to be spent by the executive in the North per capita  on healthcare than England, Scotland or Wales, yet we have the longest waiting lists and lowest waiting times.

You can't blame the tories on that. Look closer to home.

Exactly
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 14, 2023, 12:44:56 PM
I sat in a meeting where a former Education chief say we be saving £16 million a year when EA formed, fired out thousand plus maybe more staff on early good packages as their jobs didn't exist any more  Run the service into the ground by hiring no staff for nearly 10yrs. Then turned round and hired thousands (yip thousands of staff) including the jobs supposed defunct. Now there more top staff than ever, people in jobs above their capabilites. Just now a big corporate animal, costing more money than the previous library boards. I used to do alot of work, do am bogged down in never ending paperwork , previously not there, to give people jobs. So if you put the same remit to the health service and paid more tax, is that going to improve the service, No!! Somebody needs to look at it that hasn't a vested interest in how it's run. Sure they just ignored the report on recommendations 10yrs ago. Until people here have more priorities than a united ireland one hand, staying in the UK on the other, people give our MLA a free pass.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 14, 2023, 12:49:36 PM
There is a culture of entitlement in the North too which makes a free for all system unsustainable. Nobody wants to pay for anything.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: delgany on January 14, 2023, 12:57:29 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 14, 2023, 12:44:56 PM
I sat in a meeting where a former Education chief say we be saving £16 million a year when EA formed, fired out thousand plus maybe more staff on early good packages as their jobs didn't exist any more  Run the service into the ground by hiring no staff for nearly 10yrs. Then turned round and hired thousands (yip thousands of staff) including the jobs supposed defunct. Now there more top staff than ever, people in jobs above their capabilites. Just now a big corporate animal, costing more money than the previous library boards. I used to do alot of work, do am bogged down in never ending paperwork , previously not there, to give people jobs. So if you put the same remit to the health service and paid more tax, is that going to improve the service, No!! Somebody needs to look at it that hasn't a vested interest in how it's run. Sure they just ignored the report on recommendations 10yrs ago. Until people here have more priorities than a united ireland one hand, staying in the UK on the other, people give our MLA a free pass.

The EA is a total shambles.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 01:25:06 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2023, 12:21:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 14, 2023, 10:44:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 10:17:48 AM
So who is going to pay for it? Stop giving me reasons why. That's  not an answer, and I also get hammered tax
I'm already f**king paying for it. So are you then! Jesus christ

The point here is are you willing to pay more taxes to give the extra to the health service and nurses wages and so on?

Why are you not understanding that there is enough money being lifted in taxes to run an acceptable NHS. It's the Tory government that are nose deep in the trough that is the problem. Siphoning money out to their cronies rather than allocating it to the essential services.

There's no money now! Where are we getting a 17% rise? That's just a pay rise, I've been to A&E over Xmas it's a nut house with no beds staff ambulance service was unreal, was a minimum 12 hour wait, it's going to take billions per month to fix..

Can you give me a a run down on where that comes from?

Whatever siphoning off to cronies this government will probably be voted back in again as keeping out the migrants to the uk voters is more important than the health service
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 14, 2023, 01:45:10 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 14, 2023, 12:34:02 PM
What happened to the brexit bus with we give the NHS £350 million a week. Some bollacks hit away with outright lies.
The Brexit Bus is parked in front of the 40 hospitals.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 14, 2023, 02:11:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 14, 2023, 01:45:10 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 14, 2023, 12:34:02 PM
What happened to the brexit bus with we give the NHS £350 million a week. Some bollacks hit away with outright lies.
The Brexit Bus is parked in front of the 40 hospitals.

Why don't they unload the patients in there then and let the ambulances go out on another call?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 14, 2023, 03:14:20 PM
You have to go bck to the mid /late 90's. A number of a&e were closed and people shifted to hospitals a further 20miles away, what was done to take in this extra flow of people. Bigger existing a&e, er no! 1 a&e took on what 3/4 done previous. Did they build a extension? More beds? Bigger A&E..More a&e doctors. Did they f**k?! What sort of forward planning was done to close the local hospitals in areas and f**k them all into 1, when the new hospital (Antrim)  wasn't build big enough for its local area current capacity. What brainbox though this up?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 14, 2023, 03:34:06 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 14, 2023, 03:14:20 PM
You have to go bck to the mid /late 90's. A number of a&e were closed and people shifted to hospitals a further 20miles away, what was done to take in this extra flow of people. Bigger existing a&e, er no! 1 a&e took on what 3/4 done previous. Did they build a extension? More beds? Bigger A&E..More a&e doctors. Did they f**k?! What sort of forward planning was done to close the local hospitals in areas and f**k them all into 1, when the new hospital (Antrim)  wasn't build big enough for its local area current capacity. What brainbox though this up?

You don't need an A&E in every hole in the hedge either though. Successive health consultations all stated that centralisation was the way forward. It hasn't been properly implemented
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 14, 2023, 03:39:44 PM
How do you do this if the current facilities simply are not big enough. That's plain to see. I was in A&e 2nd week of December, I can see the mess and capacity is one of them.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 03:43:43 PM
I was in Antrim A&E over Xmas pure madness so whatever they have tried to do it hasn't worked
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Tony Baloney on January 14, 2023, 04:08:01 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 14, 2023, 03:39:44 PM
How do you do this if the current facilities simply are not big enough. That's plain to see. I was in A&e 2nd week of December, I can see the mess and capacity is one of them.
Increased numbers is certainly an issur but flow appears to be a bigger problem. They have said that they can't get people through the system fast enough due to lack of available ward beds and a big issue there is that they can't get healthy people released from the wards due to lack of availability in community health settings. That's why the Tories are block booking beds in nursing homes to release that block. The nursing homes are no doubt owned by their mates but that's another discussion.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on January 14, 2023, 04:41:35 PM
It's amusing to see the inmates fighting over a Death Care System that is running according to plan.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 14, 2023, 04:43:33 PM
The head of the private nursing homes association in the 26 counties was on the radio and said thry had 1000 beds. He said that the HSE office that books beds basically winds down over Christmas and is only getting going again now. So getting the consultants to come in and discharge patients is no use unless the bookkeeper issues the contract for the bed to the nursing home.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 16, 2023, 11:09:16 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 14, 2023, 12:41:43 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2023, 12:21:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 14, 2023, 10:44:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 10:17:48 AM
So who is going to pay for it? Stop giving me reasons why. That's  not an answer, and I also get hammered tax
I'm already f**king paying for it. So are you then! Jesus christ

The point here is are you willing to pay more taxes to give the extra to the health service and nurses wages and so on?

Why are you not understanding that there is enough money being lifted in taxes to run an acceptable NHS. It's the Tory government that are nose deep in the trough that is the problem. Siphoning money out to their cronies rather than allocating it to the essential services.

There is more money available to be spent by the executive in the North per capita  on healthcare than England, Scotland or Wales, yet we have the longest waiting lists and lowest life expectancy.

You can't blame the tories on that. Look closer to home.

The f**k up of an assembly is no doubt part of the problem. But that doesn't excuse the shambolic and underhand Tory dealings of the NHS.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 16, 2023, 11:27:23 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 01:25:06 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2023, 12:21:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 14, 2023, 10:44:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 10:17:48 AM
So who is going to pay for it? Stop giving me reasons why. That's  not an answer, and I also get hammered tax
I'm already f**king paying for it. So are you then! Jesus christ

The point here is are you willing to pay more taxes to give the extra to the health service and nurses wages and so on?

Why are you not understanding that there is enough money being lifted in taxes to run an acceptable NHS. It's the Tory government that are nose deep in the trough that is the problem. Siphoning money out to their cronies rather than allocating it to the essential services.

There's no money now! Where are we getting a 17% rise? That's just a pay rise, I've been to A&E over Xmas it's a nut house with no beds staff ambulance service was unreal, was a minimum 12 hour wait, it's going to take billions per month to fix..

Can you give me a a run down on where that comes from?

Whatever siphoning off to cronies this government will probably be voted back in again as keeping out the migrants to the uk voters is more important than the health service
I don't think the tories will be voted back in this time.
Labour spending during their last years in power increased nhs spending by around 5.6% per year. Conservatives by 1.5%. Since then. The average increase since 1955 was about 4.5. That's a clear policy to reduce NHS spending.
Technology is the way the NHS becomes more efficient. Sadly that takes a long term approach from the very top, supported by viable external consultants (I.e not the chancellor's mate) to make strategic decisions that will help the whole NHS organisation. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 16, 2023, 12:04:08 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 16, 2023, 11:09:16 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 14, 2023, 12:41:43 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2023, 12:21:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 14, 2023, 10:44:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 10:17:48 AM
So who is going to pay for it? Stop giving me reasons why. That's  not an answer, and I also get hammered tax
I'm already f**king paying for it. So are you then! Jesus christ

The point here is are you willing to pay more taxes to give the extra to the health service and nurses wages and so on?

Why are you not understanding that there is enough money being lifted in taxes to run an acceptable NHS. It's the Tory government that are nose deep in the trough that is the problem. Siphoning money out to their cronies rather than allocating it to the essential services.

There is more money available to be spent by the executive in the North per capita  on healthcare than England, Scotland or Wales, yet we have the longest waiting lists and lowest life expectancy.

You can't blame the tories on that. Look closer to home.

The f**k up of an assembly is no doubt part of the problem. But that doesn't excuse the shambolic and underhand Tory dealings of the NHS.

NI problems are nothing to do with Tories even though SF and others love to blame them. The reality is that Health is a devolved matter. It gets more funding in NI than anywhere else in the UK with worse outcomes. SF lock out of Stormont followed by Covid and then followed by DUP lock out has seen the service been run on a hand to mouth basis. No strategic planning, no forward thinking.
Having said all that the Health boards are run by very incapable people. People who either don't want change or cannot deliver it. We also have some of the most incapable politicians anywhere. People who are completely unemployable in everyday life put in charge of huge departments. Jim Wells for example, but there are others. People voted in because of their constitutional ideology rather than ability.
We have got the Health Service that we deserve because we have gone out and voted for it.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 16, 2023, 01:09:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 16, 2023, 12:04:08 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 16, 2023, 11:09:16 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 14, 2023, 12:41:43 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2023, 12:21:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 14, 2023, 10:44:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 10:17:48 AM
So who is going to pay for it? Stop giving me reasons why. That's  not an answer, and I also get hammered tax
I'm already f**king paying for it. So are you then! Jesus christ

The point here is are you willing to pay more taxes to give the extra to the health service and nurses wages and so on?

Why are you not understanding that there is enough money being lifted in taxes to run an acceptable NHS. It's the Tory government that are nose deep in the trough that is the problem. Siphoning money out to their cronies rather than allocating it to the essential services.

There is more money available to be spent by the executive in the North per capita  on healthcare than England, Scotland or Wales, yet we have the longest waiting lists and lowest life expectancy.

You can't blame the tories on that. Look closer to home.

The f**k up of an assembly is no doubt part of the problem. But that doesn't excuse the shambolic and underhand Tory dealings of the NHS.

NI problems are nothing to do with Tories even though SF and others love to blame them. The reality is that Health is a devolved matter. It gets more funding in NI than anywhere else in the UK with worse outcomes. SF lock out of Stormont followed by Covid and then followed by DUP lock out has seen the service been run on a hand to mouth basis. No strategic planning, no forward thinking.
Having said all that the Health boards are run by very incapable people. People who either don't want change or cannot deliver it. We also have some of the most incapable politicians anywhere. People who are completely unemployable in everyday life put in charge of huge departments. Jim Wells for example, but there are others. People voted in because of their constitutional ideology rather than ability.
We have got the Health Service that we deserve because we have gone out and voted for it.
That's not true. The NHS is a national organisation. And it's on its knees across the UK and NI. Most sensible people would struggle to blame SF for that, tho I'm sure you'll give it a go.
A root and branch review of the NHS has to be done at a national level. It's inefficient and not fit for purpose. It can not be fixed internally. It needs an independent review (And this will cost a lot of money) by independent consultants followed by an implementation plan. The review should look at processes, infrastructure, technology, personnel, management etc.
Actually harnessing digital transformation and utilising the available technology would be a start. That's the way forward.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2023, 01:19:05 PM
Going back to the point I made, if you want it (regardless of what the Tories did or the money is there, I doubt it) it will require us, the tax payers, to fund it, even if it was a temporary medical tax for 4 years, to generate new structure and oversee, bring in the best technology, train a new wave of nurses and doctors that must practice here for 10 years  minimum before heading off and losing them forever, having more availability to have medical courses here than across the water.

If we don't, and this was no doubt the Tory plan with Thatcher, it will be privatised, I'm seeing more and more people because they can't be bother with the NHS
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 16, 2023, 04:02:03 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 16, 2023, 01:09:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 16, 2023, 12:04:08 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 16, 2023, 11:09:16 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 14, 2023, 12:41:43 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2023, 12:21:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 14, 2023, 10:44:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 10:17:48 AM
So who is going to pay for it? Stop giving me reasons why. That's  not an answer, and I also get hammered tax
I'm already f**king paying for it. So are you then! Jesus christ

The point here is are you willing to pay more taxes to give the extra to the health service and nurses wages and so on?

Why are you not understanding that there is enough money being lifted in taxes to run an acceptable NHS. It's the Tory government that are nose deep in the trough that is the problem. Siphoning money out to their cronies rather than allocating it to the essential services.

There is more money available to be spent by the executive in the North per capita  on healthcare than England, Scotland or Wales, yet we have the longest waiting lists and lowest life expectancy.

You can't blame the tories on that. Look closer to home.

The f**k up of an assembly is no doubt part of the problem. But that doesn't excuse the shambolic and underhand Tory dealings of the NHS.

NI problems are nothing to do with Tories even though SF and others love to blame them. The reality is that Health is a devolved matter. It gets more funding in NI than anywhere else in the UK with worse outcomes. SF lock out of Stormont followed by Covid and then followed by DUP lock out has seen the service been run on a hand to mouth basis. No strategic planning, no forward thinking.
Having said all that the Health boards are run by very incapable people. People who either don't want change or cannot deliver it. We also have some of the most incapable politicians anywhere. People who are completely unemployable in everyday life put in charge of huge departments. Jim Wells for example, but there are others. People voted in because of their constitutional ideology rather than ability.
We have got the Health Service that we deserve because we have gone out and voted for it.
That's not true. The NHS is a national organisation. And it's on its knees across the UK and NI. Most sensible people would struggle to blame SF for that, tho I'm sure you'll give it a go.
A root and branch review of the NHS has to be done at a national level. It's inefficient and not fit for purpose. It can not be fixed internally. It needs an independent review (And this will cost a lot of money) by independent consultants followed by an implementation plan. The review should look at processes, infrastructure, technology, personnel, management etc.
Actually harnessing digital transformation and utilising the available technology would be a start. That's the way forward.

I'm sorry but we cannot exonerate our local politicians. We have had a review called Bengoa and Michelle O'Neill the then Health Minister promised to deliver it. The last time D'Hondt was run to decide ministries the Health was one of the last chosen and both DUP and SF wouldn't touch it. The two departments that are the most difficult to run are Infrastructure and Health. Robin Swann UUP and Nicola Mallon SDLP ended up taking them.
I do agree that the NHS is struggling but in Scotland were the SNP have at least tried to run it, it is doing better. Here no one wants the responsibility. I don't how you think we can fix it, here locally at least, without a functioning executive and a clear out of the Health Boards.

https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/news/oneill-launches-10-year-vision-health-social-care (https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/news/oneill-launches-10-year-vision-health-social-care) Oct 2016 - 6/7 years ago. Things have gotten worse.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 16, 2023, 04:03:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2023, 01:19:05 PM
Going back to the point I made, if you want it (regardless of what the Tories did or the money is there, I doubt it) it will require us, the tax payers, to fund it, even if it was a temporary medical tax for 4 years, to generate new structure and oversee, bring in the best technology, train a new wave of nurses and doctors that must practice here for 10 years  minimum before heading off and losing them forever, having more availability to have medical courses here than across the water.

If we don't, and this was no doubt the Tory plan with Thatcher, it will be privatised, I'm seeing more and more people because they can't be bother with the NHS

50% of the NI block grant goes on Health. It has plenty of money, it's just run by imbeciles both Politicians and Civil Servants.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 16, 2023, 04:06:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 16, 2023, 04:02:03 PM
I'm sorry but we cannot exonerate our local politicians. We have had a review called Bengoa and Michelle O'Neill the then Health Minister promised to deliver it. The last time D'Hondt was run to decide ministries the Health was one of the last chosen and both DUP and SF wouldn't touch it. The two departments that are the most difficult to run are Infrastructure and Health. Robin Swann UUP and Nicola Mallon SDLP ended up taking them.
I do agree that the NHS is struggling but in Scotland were the SNP have at least tried to run it, it is doing better. Here no one wants the responsibility. I don't how you think we can fix it, here locally at least, without a functioning executive and a clear out of the Health Boards.

I seem to remember that 15 years ago the UU ran health and made a go of it, and Swann probably tried his best. But it isn't as if the electorate rewarded Nicola Mallon for taking Infrastructure.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 16, 2023, 05:05:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 16, 2023, 04:02:03 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 16, 2023, 01:09:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 16, 2023, 12:04:08 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 16, 2023, 11:09:16 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 14, 2023, 12:41:43 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 14, 2023, 12:21:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 11:35:09 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 14, 2023, 10:44:10 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 14, 2023, 10:17:48 AM
So who is going to pay for it? Stop giving me reasons why. That's  not an answer, and I also get hammered tax
I'm already f**king paying for it. So are you then! Jesus christ

The point here is are you willing to pay more taxes to give the extra to the health service and nurses wages and so on?

Why are you not understanding that there is enough money being lifted in taxes to run an acceptable NHS. It's the Tory government that are nose deep in the trough that is the problem. Siphoning money out to their cronies rather than allocating it to the essential services.

There is more money available to be spent by the executive in the North per capita  on healthcare than England, Scotland or Wales, yet we have the longest waiting lists and lowest life expectancy.

You can't blame the tories on that. Look closer to home.

The f**k up of an assembly is no doubt part of the problem. But that doesn't excuse the shambolic and underhand Tory dealings of the NHS.

NI problems are nothing to do with Tories even though SF and others love to blame them. The reality is that Health is a devolved matter. It gets more funding in NI than anywhere else in the UK with worse outcomes. SF lock out of Stormont followed by Covid and then followed by DUP lock out has seen the service been run on a hand to mouth basis. No strategic planning, no forward thinking.
Having said all that the Health boards are run by very incapable people. People who either don't want change or cannot deliver it. We also have some of the most incapable politicians anywhere. People who are completely unemployable in everyday life put in charge of huge departments. Jim Wells for example, but there are others. People voted in because of their constitutional ideology rather than ability.
We have got the Health Service that we deserve because we have gone out and voted for it.
That's not true. The NHS is a national organisation. And it's on its knees across the UK and NI. Most sensible people would struggle to blame SF for that, tho I'm sure you'll give it a go.
A root and branch review of the NHS has to be done at a national level. It's inefficient and not fit for purpose. It can not be fixed internally. It needs an independent review (And this will cost a lot of money) by independent consultants followed by an implementation plan. The review should look at processes, infrastructure, technology, personnel, management etc.
Actually harnessing digital transformation and utilising the available technology would be a start. That's the way forward.

I'm sorry but we cannot exonerate our local politicians. We have had a review called Bengoa and Michelle O'Neill the then Health Minister promised to deliver it. The last time D'Hondt was run to decide ministries the Health was one of the last chosen and both DUP and SF wouldn't touch it. The two departments that are the most difficult to run are Infrastructure and Health. Robin Swann UUP and Nicola Mallon SDLP ended up taking them.
I do agree that the NHS is struggling but in Scotland were the SNP have at least tried to run it, it is doing better. Here no one wants the responsibility. I don't how you think we can fix it, here locally at least, without a functioning executive and a clear out of the Health Boards.

https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/news/oneill-launches-10-year-vision-health-social-care (https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/news/oneill-launches-10-year-vision-health-social-care) Oct 2016 - 6/7 years ago. Things have gotten worse.
I don't think anyone is exonerating the local administration. It's a shambles and at the mercy of either side throwing a hissy fit. My initial point was around the lack of funding by the tories. Not to mention the disgraceful siphoning off of money to cronies during covid.
My view is that the NHS as an organisation isn't fit for purpose as evidenced by the current clusterfuck across the UK. I don't think the major issues can be fixed locally. Certainly not to the extend of rescuing it as an organisation.

Bengoa actually pointed to improved systems across the nhs as well. That is certainly the way forward. But NI should be taking a lead here from the wider UK which has significantly more funding to spend on a review.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 17, 2023, 02:11:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 16, 2023, 01:19:05 PM
Going back to the point I made, if you want it (regardless of what the Tories did or the money is there, I doubt it) it will require us, the tax payers, to fund it, even if it was a temporary medical tax for 4 years, to generate new structure and oversee, bring in the best technology, train a new wave of nurses and doctors that must practice here for 10 years  minimum before heading off and losing them forever, having more availability to have medical courses here than across the water.

If we don't, and this was no doubt the Tory plan with Thatcher, it will be privatised, I'm seeing more and more people because they can't be bother with the NHS

train a new wave of nurses and doctors that must practice here for 10 years  minimum before heading off and losing them forever


Won't work. You might as well say newly qualified accountants must work in inland revenue for 10 years or teachers to work in the public education system for 10 years. 
       
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 17, 2023, 02:27:19 PM
Let them leave, but require them to pay back the cost of their training.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trueblue1234 on January 17, 2023, 02:30:47 PM
It would be hard to do alright. Although maybe a shorter term and link it to a grant during uni that is wiped if they complete 5 years NHS employment after graduation. Maybe allowing some leeway for gap year/ travelling.

Graduating in medicine is expensive - https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/health/future-ni-doctors-reveal-stresses-20473828.amp
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 17, 2023, 02:41:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 17, 2023, 02:27:19 PM
Let them leave, but require them to pay back the cost of their training.
How are you going to get that off them. Sounds like you're making the job look less attractive!

Paying students at least minimum wage for working while on placement would be a start. Nurses doing full time hours and not getting a bob. Then expected to work a part time job to fund their lives, plus study and try to have some kind of social life as well? Madness.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: johnnycool on January 17, 2023, 03:03:34 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 17, 2023, 02:41:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 17, 2023, 02:27:19 PM
Let them leave, but require them to pay back the cost of their training.
How are you going to get that off them. Sounds like you're making the job look less attractive!

Paying students at least minimum wage for working while on placement would be a start. Nurses doing full time hours and not getting a bob. Then expected to work a part time job to fund their lives, plus study and try to have some kind of social life as well? Madness.

A certain Crumlin (Antrim) based Tory party sponsor makes staff pay back "training" if they leave within a certain period of time post training....

Nurses, Junior doctors, GP's, Consultants won't leave if they're not run into the ground and a decent work/life balance can be struck, but currently they're in a death spiral where it's getting worse because they just can't cope, resign, retire or whatever and the problem is exacerbated.

The Bengoa report highlighting the structural reform needed locally also needed a huge cash injection of capital funding to be put into place along with some delicate political decisions to close some regional hospitals which the NI Assembly in it's current form is incapable to making.

Imagine the Shinners having to close Omagh or the DUP Lagan Valley...



Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 17, 2023, 03:23:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 17, 2023, 02:27:19 PM
Let them leave, but require them to pay back the cost of their training.

Same would have to apply for all courses then. Better to incentivise them to stay.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 17, 2023, 03:50:31 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 17, 2023, 02:30:47 PM
It would be hard to do alright. Although maybe a shorter term and link it to a grant during uni that is wiped if they complete 5 years NHS employment after graduation. Maybe allowing some leeway for gap year/ travelling.

Graduating in medicine is expensive - https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/health/future-ni-doctors-reveal-stresses-20473828.amp

I think this is the best way. The most of them are coming out in massive debt. Pay part of their course fees in return for a minimum time working in the NHS. The working time wouldnt have to be continous either.
       Those first five years after qualification are key. If you can retain them they are more likely to find an area of specialisation in medicine and stay in the NHS. They will have developed roots to the area, possibly bought a property or be in long term relationship and think of settling down.
       One of the more difficult things to change is the increasing move away from the idea that being a doctor is not just a job, but also a vocation.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 17, 2023, 04:14:51 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 17, 2023, 03:50:31 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on January 17, 2023, 02:30:47 PM
It would be hard to do alright. Although maybe a shorter term and link it to a grant during uni that is wiped if they complete 5 years NHS employment after graduation. Maybe allowing some leeway for gap year/ travelling.

Graduating in medicine is expensive - https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/health/future-ni-doctors-reveal-stresses-20473828.amp

I think this is the best way. The most of them are coming out in massive debt. Pay part of their course fees in return for a minimum time working in the NHS. The working time wouldnt have to be continous either.
       Those first five years after qualification are key. If you can retain them they are more likely to find an area of specialisation in medicine and stay in the NHS. They will have developed roots to the area, possibly bought a property or be in long term relationship and think of settling down.
       One of the more difficult things to change is the increasing move away from the idea that being a doctor is not just a job, but also a vocation.

My friends daughter is a doctor, fully qualified and now in Oz, will probably come back, but in regards to the money for fees, he said after 25 years regardless of how much they borrowed it was stopped? Not sure tbh
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 17, 2023, 05:14:04 PM
"Make them stay and work here" f**k me. Some of you need to have a lie down. Sounds like tactics that communist states used behind the Iron Curtain.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 17, 2023, 05:41:20 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 17, 2023, 03:23:49 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 17, 2023, 02:27:19 PM
Let them leave, but require them to pay back the cost of their training.

Same would have to apply for all courses then. Better to incentivise them to stay.

It could, but medical training is a multiple of the cost of other courses and I would hazard a guess that a higher proportion of accountants, programmers etc choose to stay in Ireland. You could justify some requirement to repay those amounts beyond that spent on the average student if the person leaves.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 17, 2023, 06:48:23 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 17, 2023, 05:14:04 PM
"Make them stay and work here" f**k me. Some of you need to have a lie down. Sounds like tactics that communist states used behind the Iron Curtain.

No the better option is train them so they can practice elsewhere and bring in oversee student's (cause they pay more) to be trained and go elsewhere as the money is better and the weather too!!

And we end up with waiting lists as we haven't the staff!!

While not trying to crack a nut with a sledgehammer some sort of system needs to be adopted as what's being used now is clearly not working
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 17, 2023, 10:42:55 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 17, 2023, 06:48:23 PM
Quote from: trailer on January 17, 2023, 05:14:04 PM
"Make them stay and work here" f**k me. Some of you need to have a lie down. Sounds like tactics that communist states used behind the Iron Curtain.

No the better option is train them so they can practice elsewhere and bring in oversee student's (cause they pay more) to be trained and go elsewhere as the money is better and the weather too!!

And we end up with waiting lists as we haven't the staff!!

While not trying to crack a nut with a sledgehammer some sort of system needs to be adopted as what's being used now is clearly not working
Jaysus you're speaking sense whats going on lol.

Would the simplest solution not be to fecking pay them a decent wage for their service and give them good working conditions/decent working hours. 30 years ago a nurse was one of the best paid jobs about. Boys labouring on sites getting better pay and more sociable hours. No wonder staff are leaving ffs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 19, 2023, 04:30:09 PM
Zero Covid jacinda resigns
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 19, 2023, 04:47:08 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2023, 04:30:09 PM
Zero Covid jacinda resigns

Good Riddance!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 19, 2023, 04:55:54 PM
have a big impact on your life did she?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 19, 2023, 05:21:01 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 19, 2023, 04:55:54 PM
have a big impact on your life did she?

She was one of the dangerous ones in the early days.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 19, 2023, 05:30:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2023, 04:30:09 PM
Zero Covid jacinda resigns

Incredible leader. One of the few people to stand up, make hard decisions and because of that she saved thousands of lives. She'll be very hard to replace.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 19, 2023, 05:59:21 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 19, 2023, 05:21:01 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 19, 2023, 04:55:54 PM
have a big impact on your life did she?

She was one of the dangerous ones in the early days.

"dangerous" - lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 19, 2023, 06:05:28 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 19, 2023, 05:30:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2023, 04:30:09 PM
Zero Covid jacinda resigns

Incredible leader. One of the few people to stand up, make hard decisions and because of that she saved thousands of lives. She'll be very hard to replace.
pity she wouldn't let the voters in NZ reward her with another term
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: AustinPowers on January 19, 2023, 06:14:08 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 19, 2023, 05:21:01 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 19, 2023, 04:55:54 PM
have a big impact on your life did she?

She was one of the dangerous ones in the early days.

Her work  is done.  Time for a new stooge
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 19, 2023, 06:24:34 PM
Strong leader. The people she has triggered here tell me she was doing something right  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 19, 2023, 06:33:03 PM
listen - she was dangerous  >:(
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on January 19, 2023, 06:42:03 PM
Gabriel Hurl, you should play the ball not the man.

As for Jacinda, New Zealands wanted her gone, that's democracy,  hard to argue that she saved a heap of lives, for that she deserves credit & she was certainly a strong leader.  Ultimately at what cost to society was her zero Covid policy, this cost her.
Trudeau on the other hand is a c**k of the highest order, surely he'll get the door soon.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 19, 2023, 06:49:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2023, 06:05:28 PM
Quote from: lenny on January 19, 2023, 05:30:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 19, 2023, 04:30:09 PM
Zero Covid jacinda resigns

Incredible leader. One of the few people to stand up, make hard decisions and because of that she saved thousands of lives. She'll be very hard to replace.
pity she wouldn't let the voters in NZ reward her with another term

Correct, totally agree. Even though Labour were slipping slightly in the polls she was still at least 10 points clear in all the most recent polls for preferred PM. Jon Sopel the much respected BBC journalist tweeted " There's the old Enoch Powell line that all political careers end in failure. This one hasn't. Goes at a time of her own choosing, head held high". History will judge her very kindly for the leadership and lives she has saved.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 19, 2023, 06:59:54 PM
White middle class, middle aged men triggered again.  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 19, 2023, 08:11:07 PM
"play the ball not the man"

"Trudeau on the other hand is a c**k of the highest order"


Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rudi on January 19, 2023, 08:53:13 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 19, 2023, 08:11:07 PM
"play the ball not the man"

"Trudeau on the other hand is a c**k of the highest order"

What alias does Trudeau go under on gaaboard?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 19, 2023, 10:49:38 PM
She done a good job in hard circumstances, and as a far away Island, restricted Covid, when the 1st strain was strongest. I know 4 people died in their 40's from Covid, and was sick for months from it myself, so little time for all these non Covid, anti vaccine believer's. Bunch of wankers!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 19, 2023, 10:54:00 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 19, 2023, 10:49:38 PM
She done a good job in hard circumstances, and as a far away Island, restricted Covid, when the 1st strain was strongest. I know 4 people died in their 40's from Covid, and was sick for months from it myself, so little time for all these non Covid, anti vaccine believer's. Bunch of wankers!
Live free or die ;)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2023, 10:54:58 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2023, 10:54:00 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on January 19, 2023, 10:49:38 PM
She done a good job in hard circumstances, and as a far away Island, restricted Covid, when the 1st strain was strongest. I know 4 people died in their 40's from Covid, and was sick for months from it myself, so little time for all these non Covid, anti vaccine believer's. Bunch of wankers!
Live free or die ;)

Have you lived in the north for long?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 19, 2023, 11:01:49 PM
Quote from: Rudi on January 19, 2023, 08:53:13 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 19, 2023, 08:11:07 PM
"play the ball not the man"

"Trudeau on the other hand is a c**k of the highest order"

What alias does Trudeau go under on gaaboard?
Canada goose ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 25, 2023, 08:37:22 PM
Is the UK banning covid boosters for people under 50 ? What about everyone who got them already?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 25, 2023, 08:48:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 25, 2023, 08:37:22 PM
Is the UK banning covid boosters for people under 50 ? What about everyone who got them already?

They have done their bit for to stop the spread.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 25, 2023, 09:06:15 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 25, 2023, 08:48:13 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 25, 2023, 08:37:22 PM
Is the UK banning covid boosters for people under 50 ? What about everyone who got them already?

They have done their bit for to stop the spread.

The Covid wave will reduce now for a while.
These boosters will become like flu, given out in the Autumn according to the current variant.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 27, 2023, 08:10:04 AM
There's more to it than the covid wave.
https://youtu.be/av4Ej6om0WI
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2023, 08:59:11 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 27, 2023, 08:10:04 AM
There's more to it than the covid wave.
https://youtu.be/av4Ej6om0WI

Did get to the end.. But is he saying that people are dying because of the vaccines?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 27, 2023, 09:03:06 AM
He's not saying anything but there is a disturbing signal that the chief medical officer etc is not talking about. We should be getting an acknowledgment at least and some information on what's being done about it, not head in the sand stuff.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2023, 09:13:43 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 27, 2023, 09:03:06 AM
He's not saying anything but there is a disturbing signal that the chief medical officer etc is not talking about. We should be getting an acknowledgment at least and some information on what's being done about it, not head in the sand stuff.

To be fair there was nearly one more excess death after watching!!

The hospital service at the minute is crazy, I know this first hand as the mother in law is going through a awful time of it, waiting times to be seen the other night was 20 hours, 12 hour waits on ambulance services, was watching a show on dogs last night, there was a girl on and she picked up covid at the start and has never recovered from it, she was 24, she's using a wheel chair to get around so if the elderly had caught it they may not have died straight away or in the the after months.. We've had 2 cold snaps recently and a cost of living crisis, people haven't the money to put the heat on...

We have a huge elderly population that is not being cared for properly dues to on going restrictions... IF and its a big if, if the vaccines were killing people, surely the rate would be a hell of a lot higher that 10%?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Rawhide on January 27, 2023, 09:32:37 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 27, 2023, 08:10:04 AM
There's more to it than the covid wave.
https://youtu.be/av4Ej6om0WI

John Campbell, his shows have ben so informative. Only recently has he started questioning the 'vaccine' and he's doing with hard data, lets you make your own mind up.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 27, 2023, 10:10:46 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2023, 09:13:43 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 27, 2023, 09:03:06 AM
He's not saying anything but there is a disturbing signal that the chief medical officer etc is not talking about. We should be getting an acknowledgment at least and some information on what's being done about it, not head in the sand stuff.

To be fair there was nearly one more excess death after watching!!

The hospital service at the minute is crazy, I know this first hand as the mother in law is going through a awful time of it, waiting times to be seen the other night was 20 hours, 12 hour waits on ambulance services, was watching a show on dogs last night, there was a girl on and she picked up covid at the start and has never recovered from it, she was 24, she's using a wheel chair to get around so if the elderly had caught it they may not have died straight away or in the the after months.. We've had 2 cold snaps recently and a cost of living crisis, people haven't the money to put the heat on...

We have a huge elderly population that is not being cared for properly dues to on going restrictions... IF and its a big if, if the vaccines were killing people, surely the rate would be a hell of a lot higher that 10%?
That's no way to approach it. Better to collect the data, crunch the numbers, identify the trends and develop a plan to try to steer a path out of it. Individual stories although tragic are just noise in this discussion and not really an issue for government, they need to look at the big picture and advocate accordingly. The issue needs to be acknowledged at the very least and risks identified. People can take their chances with their own health after that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 27, 2023, 10:52:51 AM
Campbell is nothing but a spoofer... his videos have been shared here before, he shares selective evidence and has an agenda he is following not science... I had the unfortunate experience of watching two of his videos all the way through and that was enough... they were full of contradicts and half truths and lies.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2023, 10:57:00 AM
Quote from: Rawhide on January 27, 2023, 09:32:37 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 27, 2023, 08:10:04 AM
There's more to it than the covid wave.
https://youtu.be/av4Ej6om0WI

John Campbell, his shows have ben so informative. Only recently has he started questioning the 'vaccine' and he's doing with hard data, lets you make your own mind up.

The "vaccine"?

Does he look at stuff like heat waves? The disasters that are healthcare systems and waiting lists in many countries?

Drownings and ice cream consumption are correlated. Don't have an ice cream if you're heading to the beach or the pool I guess would be the message for some.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 27, 2023, 11:06:20 AM
You know what, yous are right, there's nothing to see here. Best of luck!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2023, 11:10:05 AM
On the contrary, I'd say to absolutely look at the data and try to identify trends and causes. My issue is with the idiots who are baselessly spreading the "died suddenly" horseshit and trying to sow confusion and fear about the "vaccine".
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: thebigfella on January 27, 2023, 11:27:35 AM
Campbell is a grifter making money of the back of people sharing is bad science and misinterpreted data.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2023, 11:32:55 AM
Drug overdose deaths have gone through the roof in US since the pandemic began, with fentanyl and meth the main causes.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 27, 2023, 11:35:12 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2023, 11:10:05 AM
On the contrary, I'd say to absolutely look at the data and try to identify trends and causes. My issue is with the idiots who are baselessly spreading the "died suddenly" horseshit and trying to sow confusion and fear about the "vaccine".

The DUP guy Frew is awful for it. Anyone who challenges it is blocked.

It is a topic it is hard to get any form of objective data on and tbh it is a rabbithole I would worry some people have gone down. An example would be a boy I know through running put on twitter maybe last week how he had lost a lot of friends for his views on vaccines etc and didn't see why. He then proceeds to retweet about how cancer has been cured and it's been hidden from us  >:(

So I'd like a more open mind and be more objective but I find it hard to find data that isn't from some crackpot.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2023, 11:37:00 AM
I did find the most up to date data on New Zealand, found it quite quickly while I was having a cuppa with a coulple of hobnobs

The next date to release the latest data below: Wasn't as difficult as he made out lol

Births and deaths: Year ended December 2022 will be released on 20 February 2023.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 27, 2023, 11:38:16 AM
It will come out as lies, damn lies and statistics though. People will interpret it how they want to.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 27, 2023, 06:53:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2023, 08:59:11 AM
Quote from: Last Man on January 27, 2023, 08:10:04 AM
There's more to it than the covid wave.
https://youtu.be/av4Ej6om0WI

Did get to the end.. But is he saying that people are dying because of the vaccines?

He doesn't really make it clear. But I suppose, most people would infer from his last statement, that a much larger proportion of the excess deaths were due to adverse effects as a result of the Covid 19 vaccination programme than anyone previously thought. In my humble opinion (from the studies available presently) there is insufficient evidence currently to back up this assertion. 
       However, he's not alone in interpreting health data, making inferences from studies taken out of context and coming up with a headline to suit. Pretty good article here showing the BBC doing just that.
        https://trusttheevidence.substack.com/p/the-causes-of-the-excess-deaths

       ' Evidence based medicine is hard; it requires high-quality, detailed epidemiological studies '.  For example, it took a prospective study by Richard Doll to determine the effect of smoking on doctors - one of the largest risk factors for CVD death - that followed-up participants for 50 years '.
       
       
     
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 27, 2023, 07:57:01 PM
The weird thing is how so few people are curious about what's going on though
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 27, 2023, 08:23:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 27, 2023, 07:57:01 PM
The weird thing is how so few people are curious about what's going on though

There has been no open debate. And there won't be. The house of cards that would fall down if there was some sort of doubt would be catastrophic for all those heavily invested parties.

They are all safe enough. Control has kept tabs on things.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2023, 09:49:22 PM
FFS lads Covid and Covid vaccine "skepticism" is a cottage industry and is all over the place.

When yez present something in the way of serious evidence that stands up to serious scrutiny you might get taken seriously. Screaming all the time about conspiracy and suppression makes most people's eyes glaze over. There's enough actual real issues to worry about.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Olly on January 27, 2023, 11:14:16 PM
You have to imagine how history would be different if there was Covid years ago. It's possible there would have been no Falklands War, no Delorean cars or no Alex Higgins. It begs belief. Even the Titanic.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 27, 2023, 11:19:32 PM
Excess death up globally in developed nations who ran with the vaccine narrative.... nothing to be concerned about
https://youtu.be/mkcKQmr7kRc (https://youtu.be/mkcKQmr7kRc)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 27, 2023, 11:33:24 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 27, 2023, 11:19:32 PM
Excess death up globally in developed nations who ran with the vaccine narrative.... nothing to be concerned about
https://youtu.be/mkcKQmr7kRc (https://youtu.be/mkcKQmr7kRc)
how is it in Africa?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 28, 2023, 12:10:09 AM
Would the fact that people stopped interacting with each other as much as we did (during covid) and prevented spreading shite that was actually killing each other and now we are back to just hugging and kissing each other again?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Olly on January 28, 2023, 12:41:45 AM
I kissed my neighbours every day and no one was harmed apart from Eamonn. Wee E died.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on January 28, 2023, 12:47:12 AM
The jab skeptics are in safe hands, avoiding and detoxing the shedding are the only concerns. Knowledge is power.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 28, 2023, 12:50:32 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 28, 2023, 12:47:12 AM
The jab skeptics are in safe hands, avoiding and detoxing the shedding are the only concerns. Knowledge is power.

What does "avoiding and detoxing the shedding" mean?   Help a sheeple out.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on January 28, 2023, 12:54:32 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 28, 2023, 12:50:32 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 28, 2023, 12:47:12 AM
The jab skeptics are in safe hands, avoiding and detoxing the shedding are the only concerns. Knowledge is power.

What does "avoiding and detoxing the shedding" mean?   Help a sheeple out.

Start by throwing your tv out the window
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 28, 2023, 12:57:23 AM
Done.  Next?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 28, 2023, 12:58:18 AM
There was a bloke under it.  I think it killed him.  He was probably vaccinated though.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 28, 2023, 12:59:57 AM
Wouldn't everyone want your health officialdom to be collecting the data to get to the answers rather that leave the conspiracy theorists to fill the silence? Surely we all want that?
Is the lack of want in this regard not concerning to folk?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 28, 2023, 01:12:58 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 28, 2023, 12:59:57 AM
Wouldn't everyone want your health officialdom to be collecting the data to get to the answers rather that leave the conspiracy theorists to fill the silence? Surely we all want that?
Is the lack of want in this regard not concerning to folk?

Are they NOT looking at the data?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on January 28, 2023, 01:14:02 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 28, 2023, 12:58:18 AM
There was a bloke under it.  I think it killed him.  He was probably vaccinated though.

You probably did him a favour.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 28, 2023, 01:15:14 AM
That's what I thought.  Can I hire you as my defense lawyer?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on January 28, 2023, 01:35:38 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 28, 2023, 01:15:14 AM
That's what I thought.  Can I hire you as my defense lawyer?

Sorry, not into statutory law. Plead insanity, you will be believed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 28, 2023, 04:10:05 AM
Cheers, I'll say I got advice from you.  That should do it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 28, 2023, 04:15:03 AM
But still:

What does "avoiding and detoxing the shedding" mean?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: RedHand88 on January 28, 2023, 09:14:33 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 28, 2023, 12:59:57 AM
Wouldn't everyone want your health officialdom to be collecting the data to get to the answers rather that leave the conspiracy theorists to fill the silence? Surely we all want that?
Is the lack of want in this regard not concerning to folk?

They do collect the data though? It's called the MHRA yellow card scheme.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2023, 09:17:58 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2023, 01:12:58 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 28, 2023, 12:59:57 AM
Wouldn't everyone want your health officialdom to be collecting the data to get to the answers rather that leave the conspiracy theorists to fill the silence? Surely we all want that?
Is the lack of want in this regard not concerning to folk?

Are they NOT looking at the data?

They are and very plausible reasons provided for the Increases.

I remember it was well discussed that taking the option to lockdown could potentially has knock on effects but it saved life's at the time..
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 28, 2023, 11:58:11 AM
Plausible reasons do not equate to factual evidence. That comes down to painstaking epidemiology, assessment of confounders and determination of causation as opposed to an association.
           
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2023, 12:02:38 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 28, 2023, 11:58:11 AM
Plausible reasons do not equate to factual evidence. That comes down to painstaking epidemiology, assessment of confounders and determination of causation as opposed to an association.
         

yes, I deliberately used that word as I didn't want to get into quoting studies (a quick google brings some up) etc. as then it all about MSM pushing agendas etc.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 28, 2023, 02:12:35 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2023, 12:02:38 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 28, 2023, 11:58:11 AM
Plausible reasons do not equate to factual evidence. That comes down to painstaking epidemiology, assessment of confounders and determination of causation as opposed to an association.
         

yes, I deliberately used that word as I didn't want to get into quoting studies (a quick google brings some up) etc. as then it all about MSM pushing agendas etc.

That's quite plausible. I think the point a few other are making is that they are concerned that there doesn't seem to be any great deal of concern in government or health authorities in relation to the reason for the excess deaths figures
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 28, 2023, 02:16:40 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2023, 09:17:58 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2023, 01:12:58 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 28, 2023, 12:59:57 AM
Wouldn't everyone want your health officialdom to be collecting the data to get to the answers rather that leave the conspiracy theorists to fill the silence? Surely we all want that?
Is the lack of want in this regard not concerning to folk?

Are they NOT looking at the data?

They are and very plausible reasons provided for the Increases.

I remember it was well discussed that taking the option to lockdown could potentially has knock on effects but it saved life's at the time..

Turns out there's an alternative view in terms of the evidence to prove that lock downs worked in any meaningful way. That may be counter intuitive to corner boys like ourselves but that's ok we are not experts so little point in us butting heads about it.  Interesting to listen to all sides the argument, I really do miss reasonable debate.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3ieaVxUZYfFw0o1JpU2Y2d?si=j1iQoYwHSaO4I-VwhrX49Q
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 28, 2023, 02:33:54 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 28, 2023, 09:14:33 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 28, 2023, 12:59:57 AM
Wouldn't everyone want your health officialdom to be collecting the data to get to the answers rather that leave the conspiracy theorists to fill the silence? Surely we all want that?
Is the lack of want in this regard not concerning to folk?

They do collect the data though? It's called the MHRA yellow card scheme.

But the yellow card scheme run by MHRA is solely for collecting and monitoring information on safety concerns such as suspected side effects or adverse incidents involving medicines and medical devices.
     The cause of death or contributory cause of death are recorded by the health authorities themselves. 
     If you remember during the lockdown period there was quite a bit of controversy in that there was no or very little consistency in the definition of the cause of death or contributory cause of death between national bodies and also in different bodies within the same countries.
     That's just one difficulty for any epidemiological study looking at excess deaths during that period.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2023, 02:38:01 PM
Quote from: Last Man on January 28, 2023, 02:16:40 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2023, 09:17:58 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2023, 01:12:58 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 28, 2023, 12:59:57 AM
Wouldn't everyone want your health officialdom to be collecting the data to get to the answers rather that leave the conspiracy theorists to fill the silence? Surely we all want that?
Is the lack of want in this regard not concerning to folk?

Are they NOT looking at the data?

They are and very plausible reasons provided for the Increases.

I remember it was well discussed that taking the option to lockdown could potentially has knock on effects but it saved life's at the time..

Turns out there's an alternative view in terms of the evidence to prove that lock downs worked in any meaningful way. That may be counter intuitive to corner boys like ourselves but that's ok we are not experts so little point in us butting heads about it.  Interesting to listen to all sides the argument, I really do miss reasonable debate.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3ieaVxUZYfFw0o1JpU2Y2d?si=j1iQoYwHSaO4I-VwhrX49Q

if you have a point to make, make it... surely reasonable debate can only happen if you put forward your views.. but then again you don't want them open to scrutiny, it easier to keep posting links
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 28, 2023, 03:03:05 PM
Chrysanthemum sales, used in funerals, are booming in China and highly correlated with Covid deaths.
China recently ended lockdown.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 28, 2023, 03:07:43 PM
https://goodlawproject.org/ppe-losses-rise-to-14-9-billion/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=DHSC_Annual_Report260123&utm_medium=social%20media

A lot of skullduggery went on in ppe procurement. A lot of money was made.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 28, 2023, 03:44:16 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2023, 02:38:01 PM
Quote from: Last Man on January 28, 2023, 02:16:40 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2023, 09:17:58 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2023, 01:12:58 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 28, 2023, 12:59:57 AM
Wouldn't everyone want your health officialdom to be collecting the data to get to the answers rather that leave the conspiracy theorists to fill the silence? Surely we all want that?
Is the lack of want in this regard not concerning to folk?

Are they NOT looking at the data?

They are and very plausible reasons provided for the Increases.

I remember it was well discussed that taking the option to lockdown could potentially has knock on effects but it saved life's at the time..

Turns out there's an alternative view in terms of the evidence to prove that lock downs worked in any meaningful way. That may be counter intuitive to corner boys like ourselves but that's ok we are not experts so little point in us butting heads about it.  Interesting to listen to all sides the argument, I really do miss reasonable debate.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3ieaVxUZYfFw0o1JpU2Y2d?si=j1iQoYwHSaO4I-VwhrX49Q

if you have a point to make, make it... surely reasonable debate can only happen if you put forward your views.. but then again you don't want them open to scrutiny, it easier to keep posting links
I do find myself minded to listen to people way more expert than me, usually professors, doctors and the like. I try my damdest to listen to all sides even the vegans! I have yet to read anyone cite any hard evidence in the discussion on this board instead relying on anecdotes about "my mate's, mates aunt blah blah" or headlines on the news. The couple of links I have posted do in my opinion if you took the time to watch them put across very reasonable points worthy of consideration. I can't help myself thinking that just accepting the main stream narrative at face value may not be the best personal course of action.
maybe I am wrong but I do get the sense when you write "scrutiny", you actually mean put down, what gets you so irked about it?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2023, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: Last Man on January 28, 2023, 03:44:16 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2023, 02:38:01 PM
Quote from: Last Man on January 28, 2023, 02:16:40 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2023, 09:17:58 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2023, 01:12:58 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 28, 2023, 12:59:57 AM
Wouldn't everyone want your health officialdom to be collecting the data to get to the answers rather that leave the conspiracy theorists to fill the silence? Surely we all want that?
Is the lack of want in this regard not concerning to folk?

Are they NOT looking at the data?

They are and very plausible reasons provided for the Increases.

I remember it was well discussed that taking the option to lockdown could potentially has knock on effects but it saved life's at the time..

Turns out there's an alternative view in terms of the evidence to prove that lock downs worked in any meaningful way. That may be counter intuitive to corner boys like ourselves but that's ok we are not experts so little point in us butting heads about it.  Interesting to listen to all sides the argument, I really do miss reasonable debate.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3ieaVxUZYfFw0o1JpU2Y2d?si=j1iQoYwHSaO4I-VwhrX49Q

if you have a point to make, make it... surely reasonable debate can only happen if you put forward your views.. but then again you don't want them open to scrutiny, it easier to keep posting links
I do find myself minded to listen to people way more expert than me, usually professors, doctors and the like. I try my damdest to listen to all sides even the vegans! I have yet to read anyone cite any hard evidence in the discussion on this board instead relying on anecdotes about "my mate's, mates aunt blah blah" or headlines on the news. The couple of links I have posted do in my opinion if you took the time to watch them put across very reasonable points worthy of consideration. I can't help myself thinking that just accepting the main stream narrative at face value may not be the best personal course of action.
maybe I am wrong but I do get the sense when you write "scrutiny", you actually mean put down, what gets you so irked about it?

you appear to be minded to seek out peoples view you agree with that are doctors, professors etc. but  Nphet, the WHO are doctors too but not the type you listen too.

I watched a couple and they were a waste of my time. Not going to waste my time on a random US doctors take.

The fact you use the term 'accepting the mainstream narrative'  tells me something about your mindset but even so, I still like to hear the alternative to lockdown and it irks me that you seem well able to articulate yourself but not just not why Lockdowns were wrong.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 28, 2023, 04:12:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 27, 2023, 11:37:00 AM
I did find the most up to date data on New Zealand, found it quite quickly while I was having a cuppa with a coulple of hobnobs

The next date to release the latest data below: Wasn't as difficult as he made out lol

Births and deaths: Year ended December 2022 will be released on 20 February 2023.
Yes, pretty sure he said the NZ data was only available up to June 2022, excess deaths up by 9.7% at that point. I am confused as to why there should be nearly a 2 month delay in providing the data for the past 6 months, maybe their IT system is not up to scratch. I will be interested to see what Feb 20th reveals. As a particular end point "death" and its causes certainly is something i have a passing interest in so that I might defer its arrival as long as I can.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 28, 2023, 04:44:24 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2023, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: Last Man on January 28, 2023, 03:44:16 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2023, 02:38:01 PM
Quote from: Last Man on January 28, 2023, 02:16:40 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2023, 09:17:58 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2023, 01:12:58 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 28, 2023, 12:59:57 AM
Wouldn't everyone want your health officialdom to be collecting the data to get to the answers rather that leave the conspiracy theorists to fill the silence? Surely we all want that?
Is the lack of want in this regard not concerning to folk?

Are they NOT looking at the data?

They are and very plausible reasons provided for the Increases.

I remember it was well discussed that taking the option to lockdown could potentially has knock on effects but it saved life's at the time..

Turns out there's an alternative view in terms of the evidence to prove that lock downs worked in any meaningful way. That may be counter intuitive to corner boys like ourselves but that's ok we are not experts so little point in us butting heads about it.  Interesting to listen to all sides the argument, I really do miss reasonable debate.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3ieaVxUZYfFw0o1JpU2Y2d?si=j1iQoYwHSaO4I-VwhrX49Q

if you have a point to make, make it... surely reasonable debate can only happen if you put forward your views.. but then again you don't want them open to scrutiny, it easier to keep posting links
I do find myself minded to listen to people way more expert than me, usually professors, doctors and the like. I try my damdest to listen to all sides even the vegans! I have yet to read anyone cite any hard evidence in the discussion on this board instead relying on anecdotes about "my mate's, mates aunt blah blah" or headlines on the news. The couple of links I have posted do in my opinion if you took the time to watch them put across very reasonable points worthy of consideration. I can't help myself thinking that just accepting the main stream narrative at face value may not be the best personal course of action.
maybe I am wrong but I do get the sense when you write "scrutiny", you actually mean put down, what gets you so irked about it?

you appear to be minded to seek out peoples view you agree with that are doctors, professors etc. but  Nphet, the WHO are doctors too but not the type you listen too.

I watched a couple and they were a waste of my time. Not going to waste my time on a random US doctors take.

The fact you use the term 'accepting the mainstream narrative'  tells me something about your mindset but even so, I still like to hear the alternative to lockdown and it irks me that you seem well able to articulate yourself but not just not why Lockdowns were wrong.
From a cost benefit perspective they struck me as completely counterintuitive, how could they ever be successful when so much of society had to carry on regardless and so many others took it as an extended holiday regardless of all the crackdown stories in the news. We had twin grandchildren born in April 20 and not once did we consider any bubble arrangements, normal human instincts took over. I often get a sense that our societal lack of resilience will take decades to resolve.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2023, 05:08:28 PM
sorry, I am not following or understanding your points. I understand you think it was counterintuitive but why and what alternative would be better and what the outcome of the alternatives would be.

i don't know what your point is re your grandchildren but I had my first child around then so would be interested in what you point was.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on January 28, 2023, 06:46:36 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 28, 2023, 04:10:05 AM
Cheers, I'll say I got advice from you.  That should do it.

Paddle your own canoe, keep the informed out of it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Last Man on January 28, 2023, 07:40:02 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2023, 05:08:28 PM
sorry, I am not following or understanding your points. I understand you think it was counterintuitive but why and what alternative would be better and what the outcome of the alternatives would be.

i don't know what your point is re your grandchildren but I had my first child around then so would be interested in what you point was.
Yes I also am sorry that I engaged in this. You not as cute as you think you are.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2023, 08:49:06 PM
Quote from: Last Man on January 28, 2023, 07:40:02 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 28, 2023, 05:08:28 PM
sorry, I am not following or understanding your points. I understand you think it was counterintuitive but why and what alternative would be better and what the outcome of the alternatives would be.

i don't know what your point is re your grandchildren but I had my first child around then so would be interested in what you point was.
Yes I also am sorry that I engaged in this. You not as cute as you think you are.

I never claimed to be cute. I engaged to understand your viewpoint. I've not be able to understand it which is maybe my fault and I asked you to explain it so I could or you haven't explained it well enough which would be your fault and you have decided not to bother.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Olly on January 28, 2023, 11:15:28 PM
Do you think the Delorean motoers would have been made during Covid?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 29, 2023, 03:03:02 PM
Great to see  Djokovic is alive and well and winning the Aussie open
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2023, 03:15:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 29, 2023, 03:03:02 PM
Great to see  Djokovic is alive and well and winning the Aussie open

He could be just a strange stat if he'd have taken the vaccine, lucky man in fairness
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 29, 2023, 03:51:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 29, 2023, 03:03:02 PM
Great to see  Djokovic is alive and well and winning the Aussie open

He was a big threat to the Narrative last year. Got a bit embarrassing for Australia in the end.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 29, 2023, 07:35:16 PM
It's funny how different people see things. I thought it was an embarrassment- for Djokovic. He couldn't even tell the truth on his whereabouts and is now deemed some sort of hero when he wasn't even principled enough to tell the truth.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 29, 2023, 07:38:57 PM
The people who admire Djokovic have great regard for liars generally.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 29, 2023, 07:39:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 29, 2023, 07:35:16 PM
It's funny how different people see things. I thought it was an embarrassment- for Djokovic. He couldn't even tell the truth on his whereabouts and is now deemed some sort of hero when he wasn't even principled enough to tell the truth.

'Seamus' will be unleashed by a poster shortly to put you to rights Tommy!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2023, 07:42:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 29, 2023, 07:38:57 PM
The people who admire Djokovic have great regard for liars generally.

As an athlete and champion I'd admire him, for his attitude towards 'bending' or trying to be clever (regardless of what you thought about covid) he's a twat..

But in sport this guy is up there
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 29, 2023, 08:08:36 PM
Phenomenal tennis player no doubt about it!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 29, 2023, 09:58:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 29, 2023, 07:38:57 PM
The people who admire Djokovic have great regard for liars generally.

The fact he felt the need to lie and whether thats at any level understandable given the heart inflammation signal particularly to young people isn't even worth pondering. A real deplorable   ::)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 29, 2023, 10:29:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2023, 07:42:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 29, 2023, 07:38:57 PM
The people who admire Djokovic have great regard for liars generally.

As an athlete and champion I'd admire him, for his attitude towards 'bending' or trying to be clever (regardless of what you thought about covid) he's a twat..

But in sport this guy is up there

For a second there, i thought you were talking about yourself in the first line, are you?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 29, 2023, 10:41:46 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 29, 2023, 07:38:57 PM
The people who admire Djokovic have great regard for liars generally.
says my man who believed every lie or untruths told to him and still does
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2023, 10:46:47 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 29, 2023, 10:29:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2023, 07:42:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 29, 2023, 07:38:57 PM
The people who admire Djokovic have great regard for liars generally.

As an athlete and champion I'd admire him, for his attitude towards 'bending' or trying to be clever (regardless of what you thought about covid) he's a twat..

But in sport this guy is up there

For a second there, i thought you were talking about yourself in the first line, are you?

I instead of I'd  ;)

But yeah used to be an athlete and champion (of sorts)  ;D

but lying to get into a country to play a tournament is cheating? Funny some here were calling those pesky KC lads cheats lol
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 29, 2023, 10:51:57 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2023, 10:46:47 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 29, 2023, 10:29:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2023, 07:42:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 29, 2023, 07:38:57 PM
The people who admire Djokovic have great regard for liars generally.

As an athlete and champion I'd admire him, for his attitude towards 'bending' or trying to be clever (regardless of what you thought about covid) he's a twat..

But in sport this guy is up there

For a second there, i thought you were talking about yourself in the first line, are you?

I instead of I'd  ;)

But yeah used to be an athlete and champion (of sorts)  ;D

but lying to get into a country to play a tournament is cheating? Funny some here were calling those pesky KC lads cheats lol

Ok Champ!   ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 29, 2023, 11:19:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2023, 10:46:47 PM
but lying to get into a country to play a tournament is cheating?

Jim Crow would be proud of you MR
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: From the Bunker on January 29, 2023, 11:23:34 PM
Even Vaccine Expert Gates was there to cheer him on.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fnoyh2cXoAECXy2?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 30, 2023, 08:41:12 AM
He's a liar and that's it.

If you think he's a martyr then you're going out of your way looking for one.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2023, 08:54:36 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 29, 2023, 11:19:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2023, 10:46:47 PM
but lying to get into a country to play a tournament is cheating?

Jim Crow would be proud of you MR

I'm a big fan of his btw, I set up instagram on my phone years ago, purely for my kids, the only other person that I follow on it (follow in the loosest or terms) would be him, and if he aint vaccinated its no skin off my nose at all, its your body you do with it as you see fit, but don't try and tell porkies and expect to be not caught out..

His stance is his stance, don't blemish it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 12:40:51 PM
As I'm sure anyone who takes the 5 minutes to read, this is a very balanced UnHerd piece discussing the rise in excess deaths globally across age groups

Why are excess deaths still so high? .... We can't just blame a failing NHS
https://unherd.com/2023/01/why-are-excess-deaths-still-so-high/?s=09 (https://unherd.com/2023/01/why-are-excess-deaths-still-so-high/?s=09)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: shawshank on January 30, 2023, 01:01:01 PM
Cracking article skull.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2023, 01:25:55 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 12:40:51 PM
As I'm sure anyone who takes the 5 minutes to read, this is a very balanced UnHerd piece discussing the rise in excess deaths globally across age groups

Why are excess deaths still so high? .... We can't just blame a failing NHS
https://unherd.com/2023/01/why-are-excess-deaths-still-so-high/?s=09 (https://unherd.com/2023/01/why-are-excess-deaths-still-so-high/?s=09)

So after reading that, they still don't know why there is excess number of deaths, but finish off by saying that vaccines could be a factor? If you actually read any medication there are risks to taking asprin.. If possible we shouldn't take anything and essentially have a healthy lifestyle..

It's no surprise really that an excessive number of vaccines will and did come with degree of danger, saying it and proving that the vaccines did more harm than good is like saying we should stop taking the Pill as it is dangerous and can cause major complications.

As I said before, if the vaccines were dangerous, why is there not more people dying because of it 9% more deaths and then you break that down even further into the age brackets its lower again!

Should they have just seen it out? What approach was best, looking back, now with hindsight?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 30, 2023, 01:50:26 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 12:40:51 PM
As I'm sure anyone who takes the 5 minutes to read, this is a very balanced UnHerd piece discussing the rise in excess deaths globally across age groups

Why are excess deaths still so high? .... We can't just blame a failing NHS
https://unherd.com/2023/01/why-are-excess-deaths-still-so-high/?s=09 (https://unherd.com/2023/01/why-are-excess-deaths-still-so-high/?s=09)

I wouldn't read anything by that extremist rag. It purports to be 'reasonable', 'fair' and 'balanced' while pushing a relentless right-wing, cruel and populist agenda. It clothes itself in respectability but it is as dangerous as any YouTube cesspool.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 02:10:56 PM
I recommend people read it themselves and draw their own conclusions.... and thats fine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Franko on January 30, 2023, 02:20:49 PM
Interesting stuff and not to be discounted

And I'm someone who was/is in favour of the vaccines

Surely a study of excess death rates amongst the vaccinated and unvaccinated by age group would be in order?

It can't be that difficult to conduct and indeed might even be a paperwork exercise in pulling info from some database?

Hypothetically, would the vaccine sceptics out there believe this if no link was found?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 30, 2023, 02:52:55 PM
I also think that covid itself is dismissed far too readily as being a contributing factor in excess deaths. Covid has had significant impacts on peoples hearts and lungs young and old. This was before and after vaccines.

It has, unfortunately, became an us and them thing and is hard to find anything truly objective on it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 30, 2023, 02:58:16 PM
This article like many others does not have much in the way of actual statistics, or if such articles do then they are selective.
If you go to the Euromomo website (https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps) then there is no sign of excess mortality in Ireland, notwithstanding some alarmist articles a couple of weeks ago. Perhaps they are just slow at sending in data.
The place that was vaccinated first and had the most vaccines was Israel. If vaccines were doing damage then it would have shown up in Israel first. There is a modest increase in Israel around the New Year, but it is no higher than this time of year in 2019. Yet Germany and England have had problems, perhaps it is Saxon blood. Even then, deaths vary quite a bit within Germany, so it is a complex problem, the vaccination rate in different places did not differ that much. 

Quote from: imtommygunn on January 30, 2023, 02:52:55 PM
I also think that covid itself is dismissed far too readily as being a contributing factor in excess deaths. Covid has had significant impacts on peoples hearts and lungs young and old. This was before and after vaccines.

It has, unfortunately, became an us and them thing and is hard to find anything truly objective on it.


Exactly. But people are willing to believe that an attenuated form of Covid in a vaccine will do great damage, while the real thing does not harm whatsoever.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 03:02:48 PM
I'm certainly not dismissing anything ITG. A reasonable question to consider as part of any detailed investigation AFAIC.

Surely everyone by now is seeing and reflecting on the gaslighting of the excess deaths question by both governments and MSM in cahoots around the world? They should be as interested in getting to the bottom of this as anyone you would have thought?

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 30, 2023, 03:09:03 PM
Not suggesting you are skull. None of these articles I read on the subject seem to put any weight in it and I honestly believe there is a lot of weight can be put in it.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 30, 2023, 03:37:46 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 03:02:48 PM
Surely everyone by now is seeing and reflecting on the gaslighting of the excess deaths question by both governments and MSM in cahoots around the world? They should be as interested in getting to the bottom of this as anyone you would have thought?

They are interested in getting to the bottom of this. However, while the anti vax crowd can just tweet nonsense without any facts whatsoever, a proper investigation will take time.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 30, 2023, 03:54:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 30, 2023, 02:58:16 PM
This article like many others does not have much in the way of actual statistics, or if such articles do then they are selective.
If you go to the Euromomo website (https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps) then there is no sign of excess mortality in Ireland, notwithstanding some alarmist articles a couple of weeks ago. Perhaps they are just slow at sending in data.
The place that was vaccinated first and had the most vaccines was Israel. If vaccines were doing damage then it would have shown up in Israel first. There is a modest increase in Israel around the New Year, but it is no higher than this time of year in 2019. Yet Germany and England have had problems, perhaps it is Saxon blood. Even then, deaths vary quite a bit within Germany, so it is a complex problem, the vaccination rate in different places did not differ that much. 

Quote from: imtommygunn on January 30, 2023, 02:52:55 PM
I also think that covid itself is dismissed far too readily as being a contributing factor in excess deaths. Covid has had significant impacts on peoples hearts and lungs young and old. This was before and after vaccines.

It has, unfortunately, became an us and them thing and is hard to find anything truly objective on it.


Exactly. But people are willing to believe that an attenuated form of Covid in a vaccine will do great damage, while the real thing does not harm whatsoever.

Sorry for being pedantic but i don't think there are any vaccines currently in use that contain an attenuated form of the Covid 19 virus. I think Codagenix is in clinical trials which is an attenuated Vaccine like the oral Polio vaccine.

https://www.immunology.org/public-information/vaccine-resources/covid-19/covid-19-vaccine-infographics/types-covid19-vaccines

I think the point really is that there doesn't seem to be any real interest and certainly no urgency by National Health authorities to demonstrate that they have commissioned any studies into these excess deaths.
       
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 04:02:39 PM
Backbench MP Esther McVey asking Government for an investigation last week in Westminster and got swatted away with a nothing answer
https://youtu.be/Ll8GxuqmApQ (https://youtu.be/Ll8GxuqmApQ)

The BBC weren't interested enough to report on the exchange.

I can only conclude, unless provided with evidence that for some reason they don't want to go there. Strange to my eyes but then we should all know how governments and state media have worked in the past to control narratives.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 30, 2023, 04:16:30 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 30, 2023, 03:54:47 PM
Sorry for being pedantic but i don't think there are any vaccines currently in use that contain an attenuated form of the Covid 19 virus. I think Codagenix is in clinical trials which is an attenuated Vaccine like the oral Polio vaccine.

Fair enough. Nevertheless, all vaccines contain elements present in the Covid virus, otherwise the immune system could not be trained to recognise it.


Quote from: grounded on January 30, 2023, 03:54:47 PM
I think the point really is that there doesn't seem to be any real interest and certainly no urgency by National Health authorities to demonstrate that they have commissioned any studies into these excess deaths.

Are you saying that no country of the world have launched such an investigation or have plans to have one?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 30, 2023, 04:35:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 30, 2023, 04:16:30 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 30, 2023, 03:54:47 PM
Sorry for being pedantic but i don't think there are any vaccines currently in use that contain an attenuated form of the Covid 19 virus. I think Codagenix is in clinical trials which is an attenuated Vaccine like the oral Polio vaccine.

Fair enough. Nevertheless, all vaccines contain elements present in the Covid virus, otherwise the immune system could not be trained to recognise it.


Quote from: grounded on January 30, 2023, 03:54:47 PM
I think the point really is that there doesn't seem to be any real interest and certainly no urgency by National Health authorities to demonstrate that they have commissioned any studies into these excess deaths.

Are you saying that no country of the world have launched such an investigation or have plans to have one?

I'm not privvy to the plans of governements around the world but truthfully i haven't seen any real comment from the health secretaries from England, Scotland, Wales  or the minister for health here on the matter of excess deaths.
     
    ' The Department for Health said it is tracking excess mortality through the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities, which produces a tool for analysis that is updated monthly. However, it could not point to any R&D it funds to scrutinise the trends revealed by the tool and other similar data sources '

https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-politics-2023-1-uk-s-pattern-of-excess-deaths-deserves-close-scrutiny/
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 30, 2023, 04:41:45 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 30, 2023, 04:35:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 30, 2023, 04:16:30 PM
Are you saying that no country of the world have launched such an investigation or have plans to have one?

I'm not privvy to the plans of governements around the world but truthfully i haven't seen any real comment from the health secretaries from England, Scotland, Wales  or the minister for health here on the matter of excess deaths.
     
    ' The Department for Health said it is tracking excess mortality through the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities, which produces a tool for analysis that is updated monthly. However, it could not point to any R&D it funds to scrutinise the trends revealed by the tool and other similar data sources '

https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-politics-2023-1-uk-s-pattern-of-excess-deaths-deserves-close-scrutiny/

These governments closer to home may well be hiding from blame for lack of ambulances etc. But if the vaccine has any effect then some country will identify this.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 30, 2023, 05:15:10 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 03:02:48 PM
I'm certainly not dismissing anything ITG. A reasonable question to consider as part of any detailed investigation AFAIC.

Surely everyone by now is seeing and reflecting on the gaslighting of the excess deaths question by both governments and MSM in cahoots around the world? They should be as interested in getting to the bottom of this as anyone you would have thought?

Are opposition parties in on these big secrets as well? Because there are elections happening all around the world and governments change. Also the MSM don't all support the same parties although in the UK almost all MSM are very conservative and right wing. So how does uniformity of opinion happen on this kind of topic throughout MSM.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 30, 2023, 05:21:32 PM
I discussed this early on in the pandemic with someone. If covid is the scam that *some* people think it is / was then whoever project managed the whole scam to the level it is/was must be the best project manager in the history of the entire world.

I would tend to think along the same lines about the vaccine tbh in reference to your uniformity point.

Don't get me wrong I think there's a fair bit of corruption around the likes of Sunak(and that is only in the UK) and his vested interests etc and there has been plenty go on but a cover up of mass proportions around excess deaths is not something I think is humanly possible to pull off.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 30, 2023, 05:38:37 PM
Twitter world demands investigations and reports instantly, I would have thought the after effects of Covid Vaccines would take years to investigate properly. Like with most things in the conspiracy theorists echo chamber it's not as big a deal / widespread as you would think.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 05:46:17 PM
I read the article, I have read unherd articles before and it wasn't far off how shite I thought they were too.

I think it could be summaried by the excess deaths are believed to be cause by x y z in countries 1, 2 and 3. We don't agree with x y z. Maybe  a b c are the causes, we have no evidence of a b c but no evidence it isn't a b c either but we have dismissed x y z so that means it must be a b c. Investigate!!!

there was little to no mention of the long term effects of covid in the article, there was mention as the outcome for the health system If there was no lockdown and how many might have died when hospitals were overran with patients while understaffed due to covid.

there are articles on BBC about this, so it is reported but a common theme is to point to no MSM coverage... if there is too much is scaremongering and too little they are in league with govt. and hiding it...

I do believe lockdown is probably a contributing factor to some deaths (moreso from a delayed treatment and now overburden healthcare system perspective), heat waves, cold snaps, cost of living, poor healthcare systems, influenza, strep, rsv etc. covid, long covid and vaccines  are likely to have caused a few too, I don't think that is in dispute.

I disagree with the lack of evidence is evidence argument.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 30, 2023, 07:59:44 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 30, 2023, 04:41:45 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 30, 2023, 04:35:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 30, 2023, 04:16:30 PM
Are you saying that no country of the world have launched such an investigation or have plans to have one?

I'm not privvy to the plans of governements around the world but truthfully i haven't seen any real comment from the health secretaries from England, Scotland, Wales  or the minister for health here on the matter of excess deaths.
     
    ' The Department for Health said it is tracking excess mortality through the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities, which produces a tool for analysis that is updated monthly. However, it could not point to any R&D it funds to scrutinise the trends revealed by the tool and other similar data sources '

https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-politics-2023-1-uk-s-pattern-of-excess-deaths-deserves-close-scrutiny/

These governments closer to home may well be hiding from blame for lack of ambulances etc. But if the vaccine has any effect then some country will identify this.

I think that is a fair point as regards governments, particularly the UK government. They have a multitude of problems including cost of living, health, Economy, Ukraine War most of their own making through the folly of Brexit. 
        At this stage they are still blaming Covid 19 infections, the lockdown and delayed diagnosis etc. A study into the causes of excess deaths is likely to be very damaging to the Tories. A conservative health Secretary announcing an enquiry into the reasons for excess deaths figures is like a turkey voting for Christmas.
       The truth is, there aren't enough excess deaths over a long enough period yet,  to really put pressure on the government to commission any studies into it.
        and yes I think in time( i think it will be a very long time given the complexity of any studies and the thorny issue of who will fund this research) that any links between the Covid 19 vaccination programme and adverse effects will come to light.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on January 30, 2023, 08:41:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on January 29, 2023, 07:38:57 PM
The people who admire Djokovic have great regard for liars generally.

Do you admire Dr Bill Gates and Anthony Fauci?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 30, 2023, 09:06:59 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 30, 2023, 05:38:37 PM
Twitter world demands investigations and reports instantly, I would have thought the after effects of Covid Vaccines would take years to investigate properly. Like with most things in the conspiracy theorists echo chamber it's not as big a deal / widespread as you would think.
I think that's the point the vaccine was rolled out so quickly and there wasn't years of trials , but you are asking to wait years to find out about side affects ? Should be the other way around no ?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2023, 09:08:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 30, 2023, 09:06:59 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 30, 2023, 05:38:37 PM
Twitter world demands investigations and reports instantly, I would have thought the after effects of Covid Vaccines would take years to investigate properly. Like with most things in the conspiracy theorists echo chamber it's not as big a deal / widespread as you would think.
I think that's the point the vaccine was rolled out so quickly and there wasn't years of trials , but you are asking to wait years to find out about side affects ? Should be the other way around no ?

If we waited on the trials more people could have died?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 30, 2023, 10:00:11 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2023, 09:08:55 PM
Quote from: Gmac on January 30, 2023, 09:06:59 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 30, 2023, 05:38:37 PM
Twitter world demands investigations and reports instantly, I would have thought the after effects of Covid Vaccines would take years to investigate properly. Like with most things in the conspiracy theorists echo chamber it's not as big a deal / widespread as you would think.
I think that's the point the vaccine was rolled out so quickly and there wasn't years of trials , but you are asking to wait years to find out about side affects ? Should be the other way around no ?

If we waited on the trials more people could have died?
Yes, abundantly clear, but the dividing line in the for & against will be very familiar. No one had the benefit of hindsight.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 30, 2023, 10:04:49 PM
You can't have years of trials. Also side effects are not from a controlled set and trials are. It is way harder to deduce.

The years of trial thing the easiest non argument to make against the vaccine.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 10:14:30 PM
That was very much part of the media/the science fear narrative at the time. "Protect granny" (which was a lie) drove it all the way down to 5 year olds. Time will tell
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 30, 2023, 10:18:00 PM
Will it though?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 30, 2023, 10:20:50 PM
Bit of conjecture here, buts lets just say in the future it could be proven that there were more widespread adverse affects to the covid19 vaccination programme than predicted, would the line ' nobody forced you to take it ' be a fair defence by the authorities?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2023, 10:21:38 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 10:14:30 PM
That was very much part of the media/the science fear narrative at the time. "Protect granny" (which was a lie) drove it all the way down to 5 year olds. Time will tell

So basically you're pointing towards that 5 year olds will/are at danger because of vaccines?

So where's the science behind that?

And the amount of vaccines kids get before the age of 5, have they a downside?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 30, 2023, 10:21:51 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 10:14:30 PM
That was very much part of the media/the science fear narrative at the time. "Protect granny" (which was a lie) drove it all the way down to 5 year olds. Time will tell

In what way was "protect Granny" a lie?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 10:23:06 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 10:14:30 PM
That was very much part of the media/the science fear narrative at the time. "Protect granny" (which was a lie) drove it all the way down to 5 year olds. Time will tell

vaccines reduced hospitalisation, freeing up capacity for 'granny'.

the same poster who shares articles that without evidence points the finger at vaccines for increased deaths is  taking aim at media/ science fear narrative!!! 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 30, 2023, 10:30:01 PM
Some dummies on here, cigarettes we know the dangers, half the country smokes. I seen many a person go on about vaccine are smoking flat out, not much reply when u point out the dangers, they do it anyway, but the vaccine killing me, aye right?!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on January 30, 2023, 10:37:11 PM
Excellent peer-reviewed survey below on COVID-19 and the jab. I have traveled the world for close to the last 40 years and thought nothing could shock me anymore. Then along came 2019 and COVID-19. In the early days I gave people the benefit of the doubt but now we are three years further down the road with most none the wiser. Unfortunately it seems Ireland leads the way in this regard, which is not in the shock category as I have found Irish people in general believe almost everything they are spoon fed, compliments to RTE etc.

https://o-trim.co/VaxSurvey (https://o-trim.co/VaxSurvey)

Many of the side effects are listed, see if you, members of your family or friends experience any. The comments section is also very informative. How people can take a chance on a vaccine which had little or no trials is mind boggling. To me it's comparable to playing Russian roulette with all the chambers loaded. For those people who continue to follow with blind faith, may God help them. When somebody gets injured or dies from the COVID jab we all lose.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 11:02:34 PM
Do all the pro vaxxers here intend to follow the guidance and continue to get their boosters along with their children as they become available?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 11:03:06 PM
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03626-1#:~:text=The%20world%20was%20able%20to,moving%20more%20quickly%20than%20normal.

try using Google to see how trials were conducted quicker than normal... plenty of them.. here is one. 
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2023, 11:06:07 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 11:02:34 PM
Do all the pro vaxxers here intend to follow the guidance and continue to get their boosters along with their children as they become available?

Do you or have any of your family taken vaccines in the past or will in the future the flu vaccine?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 11:08:49 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 11:02:34 PM
Do all the pro vaxxers here intend to follow the guidance and continue to get their boosters along with their children as they become available?

my 2 year son didn't get the flu vaccine this year. we wanted him to get it but unfortunately through illness ourselves etc. it didn't happen. he got influenza  b, It was a horrible experience, almost a week of high temps, swollen glands, multiple doctors trips and we spent a night in hospital, he stopped being able to walk for 48 hrs... frightening to see an active kid one day not be able to walk the next.

to answer your question. Yes, I will follow medical advice.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 11:17:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2023, 11:06:07 PM
Do you or have any of your family taken vaccines in the past or will in the future the flu vaccine?

Yes to the first part MR (all those old skool one off ones as children) ...no to the second. I'm focusing on protecting my immune system going forward ahead of taking instruction from big pharma who have a profit incentive to tell me I should be taking their product. Will play it as I see it

You do know that mRNA 'vaccines' (which don't block infection & offers narrow protection only, albeit short lived) is brand new technology so I'm struggling to take your question seriously? I thought you worked in the pharma field these days? No?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Gmac on January 30, 2023, 11:21:12 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 11:17:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2023, 11:06:07 PM
Do you or have any of your family taken vaccines in the past or will in the future the flu vaccine?

Yes to the first part MR (all those old skool one off ones as children) ...no to the second. I'm focusing on protecting my immune system going forward ahead of taking instruction from big pharma who have a profit incentive to tell me I should be taking their product. Will play it as I see it

You do know that mRNA 'vaccines' (which don't block infection & offers narrow protection only, albeit short lived) is brand new technology so I'm struggling to take your question seriously? I thought you worked in the pharma field these days? No?
amazing that not many know that the Covid vaccine is the only mRNA being used currently.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 30, 2023, 11:22:37 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 11:08:49 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 11:02:34 PM
Do all the pro vaxxers here intend to follow the guidance and continue to get their boosters along with their children as they become available?

my 2 year son didn't get the flu vaccine this year. we wanted him to get it but unfortunately through illness ourselves etc. it didn't happen. he got influenza  b, It was a horrible experience, almost a week of high temps, swollen glands, multiple doctors trips and we spent a night in hospital, he stopped being able to walk for 48 hrs... frightening to see an active kid one day not be able to walk the next.

to answer your question. Yes, I will follow medical advice.

Lots of parents failed to give their children the nasal influenza vaccine this year and they were warned repeatedly of a increased risk of influenza this season.  Very irresponsible especially as the influenza vaccine has been round for coming upto 90 years.

https://lloydspharmacy.com/blogs/cold-and-flu/when-flu-vaccine-invented
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2023, 11:28:45 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 11:17:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2023, 11:06:07 PM
Do you or have any of your family taken vaccines in the past or will in the future the flu vaccine?

Yes to the first part MR (all those old skool one off ones as children) ...no to the second. I'm focusing on protecting my immune system going forward ahead of taking instruction from big pharma who have a profit incentive to tell me I should be taking their product. Will play it as I see it

You do know that mRNA 'vaccines' (which don't block infection & offers narrow protection only, albeit short lived) is brand new technology so I'm struggling to take your question seriously? I thought you worked in the pharma field these days? No?

Medical yes, not pharma though..

Here's the thing, there are smarter people than me who have years of experience, research and actual degrees in this field and doctors who give advice and whatever. You wouldn't buy a car off someone who worked in Lidil, you'll get advice from an expert

My plan is a simple one. Try and keep myself healthy and stay away from the health service, unfortunately we all get old and die of something.

I've taken the vaccine and a booster, I haven't noticed anything yet just getting rounder around the gut! I'm not in any rush for others tbf but not because I'm against it, just feel I've built up immunity as when I actually caught it I was fine.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 11:30:27 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 30, 2023, 11:22:37 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 11:08:49 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 11:02:34 PM
Do all the pro vaxxers here intend to follow the guidance and continue to get their boosters along with their children as they become available?

my 2 year son didn't get the flu vaccine this year. we wanted him to get it but unfortunately through illness ourselves etc. it didn't happen. he got influenza  b, It was a horrible experience, almost a week of high temps, swollen glands, multiple doctors trips and we spent a night in hospital, he stopped being able to walk for 48 hrs... frightening to see an active kid one day not be able to walk the next.

to answer your question. Yes, I will follow medical advice.

Lots of parents failed to give their children the nasal influenza vaccine this year and they were warned repeatedly of a increased risk of influenza this season.  Very irresponsible especially as the influenza vaccine has been round for coming upto 100 years.

https://lloydspharmacy.com/blogs/cold-and-flu/when-flu-vaccine-invented

we were well aware of the risk, which is why we want him to get it, but as I said due to illness it didn't happen.  nasal vaccine is roughly 20 years according to the link..   
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 30, 2023, 11:32:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 11:30:27 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 30, 2023, 11:22:37 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 11:08:49 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 11:02:34 PM
Do all the pro vaxxers here intend to follow the guidance and continue to get their boosters along with their children as they become available?

my 2 year son didn't get the flu vaccine this year. we wanted him to get it but unfortunately through illness ourselves etc. it didn't happen. he got influenza  b, It was a horrible experience, almost a week of high temps, swollen glands, multiple doctors trips and we spent a night in hospital, he stopped being able to walk for 48 hrs... frightening to see an active kid one day not be able to walk the next.

to answer your question. Yes, I will follow medical advice.

Lots of parents failed to give their children the nasal influenza vaccine this year and they were warned repeatedly of a increased risk of influenza this season.  Very irresponsible especially as the influenza vaccine has been round for coming upto 100 years.

https://lloydspharmacy.com/blogs/cold-and-flu/when-flu-vaccine-invented

we were well aware of the risk, which is why we want him to get it, but as I said due to illness it didn't happen.  nasal vaccine is roughly 20 years according to the link..

Ah, i never took you for an antivaxxer Pauric.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 11:35:59 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 30, 2023, 11:32:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 11:30:27 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 30, 2023, 11:22:37 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 11:08:49 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 11:02:34 PM
Do all the pro vaxxers here intend to follow the guidance and continue to get their boosters along with their children as they become available?

my 2 year son didn't get the flu vaccine this year. we wanted him to get it but unfortunately through illness ourselves etc. it didn't happen. he got influenza  b, It was a horrible experience, almost a week of high temps, swollen glands, multiple doctors trips and we spent a night in hospital, he stopped being able to walk for 48 hrs... frightening to see an active kid one day not be able to walk the next.

to answer your question. Yes, I will follow medical advice.

Lots of parents failed to give their children the nasal influenza vaccine this year and they were warned repeatedly of a increased risk of influenza this season.  Very irresponsible especially as the influenza vaccine has been round for coming upto 100 years.

https://lloydspharmacy.com/blogs/cold-and-flu/when-flu-vaccine-invented

we were well aware of the risk, which is why we want him to get it, but as I said due to illness it didn't happen.  nasal vaccine is roughly 20 years according to the link..

Ah, i never took you for an antivaxxer Pauric.

comprehension is obviously an issue for you.  A decent person would ask if my son has recovered.. you continue to fail at trying to be smart...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 30, 2023, 11:52:19 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 11:35:59 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 30, 2023, 11:32:55 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 11:30:27 PM
Quote from: grounded on January 30, 2023, 11:22:37 PM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 11:08:49 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 11:02:34 PM
Do all the pro vaxxers here intend to follow the guidance and continue to get their boosters along with their children as they become available?

my 2 year son didn't get the flu vaccine this year. we wanted him to get it but unfortunately through illness ourselves etc. it didn't happen. he got influenza  b, It was a horrible experience, almost a week of high temps, swollen glands, multiple doctors trips and we spent a night in hospital, he stopped being able to walk for 48 hrs... frightening to see an active kid one day not be able to walk the next.

to answer your question. Yes, I will follow medical advice.

Lots of parents failed to give their children the nasal influenza vaccine this year and they were warned repeatedly of a increased risk of influenza this season.  Very irresponsible especially as the influenza vaccine has been round for coming upto 100 years.

https://lloydspharmacy.com/blogs/cold-and-flu/when-flu-vaccine-invented

we were well aware of the risk, which is why we want him to get it, but as I said due to illness it didn't happen.  nasal vaccine is roughly 20 years according to the link..

Ah, i never took you for an antivaxxer Pauric.

comprehension is obviously an issue for you.  A decent person would ask if my son has recovered.. you continue to fail at trying to be smart...

P.S. Hope the wee lad is feeling better....
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 11:58:47 PM
Just to be aware PHP of a recent study showing increased chance of getting Covid the more boosters taken... could be bullshit

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.17.22283625v1.full-text (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.17.22283625v1.full-text)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on January 31, 2023, 12:01:15 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 11:03:06 PM
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03626-1#:~:text=The%20world%20was%20able%20to,moving%20more%20quickly%20than%20normal.

try using Google to see how trials were conducted quicker than normal... plenty of them.. here is one.

That article was from December 2020, now fast forward to January 24, 2023 to the article I posted to find the true results of the trial on the public who are being used as guinea pigs. 

Relying on GOOGLE for you information is much like going to RTE to do likewise.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 31, 2023, 12:08:41 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 31, 2023, 12:01:15 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 11:03:06 PM
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03626-1#:~:text=The%20world%20was%20able%20to,moving%20more%20quickly%20than%20normal.

try using Google to see how trials were conducted quicker than normal... plenty of them.. here is one.

That article was from December 2020, now move forward to January 24, 2023 to the article I posted to find the true results of the trial on the public who are being used as guinea pigs.

it doesn't matter that it was written in 2020, it was about how the vaccines were produced quicker and quicker doesn't mean less safe!!!

random links on gaabaord from anonymous poster is where I should get all my information from!!!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 31, 2023, 12:11:47 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 11:58:47 PM
Just to be aware PHP of a recent study showing increased chance of getting Covid the more boosters taken... could be bullshit

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.17.22283625v1.full-text (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.17.22283625v1.full-text)

bullshit or not you have shared it, you are willing to accept that covid boosters increased the chances of getting covid but not willing to accept it could reduce the effects if I do get it!! Care to share those studies.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on January 31, 2023, 12:31:34 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 31, 2023, 12:08:41 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 31, 2023, 12:01:15 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 11:03:06 PM
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03626-1#:~:text=The%20world%20was%20able%20to,moving%20more%20quickly%20than%20normal.

try using Google to see how trials were conducted quicker than normal... plenty of them.. here is one.

That article was from December 2020, now move forward to January 24, 2023 to the article I posted to find the true results of the trial on the public who are being used as guinea pigs.

it doesn't matter that it was written in 2020, it was about how the vaccines were produced quicker and quicker doesn't mean less safe!!!

random links on gaabaord from anonymous poster is where I should get all my information from!!!

The January 24th article proves that you are incorrect. Your sarcasm may have a better chance of giving you protection than any of the COVID jabs.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 31, 2023, 12:40:14 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 31, 2023, 12:31:34 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 31, 2023, 12:08:41 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 31, 2023, 12:01:15 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 11:03:06 PM
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03626-1#:~:text=The%20world%20was%20able%20to,moving%20more%20quickly%20than%20normal.

try using Google to see how trials were conducted quicker than normal... plenty of them.. here is one.

That article was from December 2020, now move forward to January 24, 2023 to the article I posted to find the true results of the trial on the public who are being used as guinea pigs.

it doesn't matter that it was written in 2020, it was about how the vaccines were produced quicker and quicker doesn't mean less safe!!!

random links on gaabaord from anonymous poster is where I should get all my information from!!!

The January 24th article proves that you are incorrect. Your sarcasm may have a better chance of giving you protection than any of the COVID jabs.

the survey that included asking non vaccinated people (about half the 2800) if they knew a vaccinated person that had side effects. very scientific...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 01:07:57 AM
If there's an increasing chance of getting Covid, the more boosters you take, that's telling my brain there's something not right about this vaccines interaction with people's immune systems. Pfizer have already lost me at that point
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 31, 2023, 01:19:26 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 01:07:57 AM
If there's an increasing chance of getting Covid, the more boosters you take, that's telling my brain there's something not right about this vaccines interaction with people's immune systems. Pfizer have already lost me at that point

you appear more willing to accept that which you yourself mentioned could be bullshit but not the studies that show their effectiveness. Why is that?

Have you or do you take travel vaccines like the vaccines recommend for Vietnam  etc.? and do you take vitamin d or any health supplements or do they fall under big pharma?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on January 31, 2023, 01:22:42 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 31, 2023, 12:40:14 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 31, 2023, 12:31:34 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 31, 2023, 12:08:41 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 31, 2023, 12:01:15 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 11:03:06 PM
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03626-1#:~:text=The%20world%20was%20able%20to,moving%20more%20quickly%20than%20normal.

try using Google to see how trials were conducted quicker than normal... plenty of them.. here is one.

That article was from December 2020, now move forward to January 24, 2023 to the article I posted to find the true results of the trial on the public who are being used as guinea pigs.

it doesn't matter that it was written in 2020, it was about how the vaccines were produced quicker and quicker doesn't mean less safe!!!

random links on gaabaord from anonymous poster is where I should get all my information from!!!

The January 24th article proves that you are incorrect. Your sarcasm may have a better chance of giving you protection than any of the COVID jabs.

the survey that included asking non vaccinated people (about half the 2800) if they knew a vaccinated person that had side effects. very scientific...


You conveniently left out the following:

"However, even among the vaccinated participants only, 15% knew someone in their social circle who had a significant health problem after they received the vaccine.

This 15% rate may still sound high to the vaccine proponents.

But among the vaccinated participants themselves, 13% reported experiencing a severe health issue after the vaccine (see table 2).

Regarding vaccine deaths, "fifty-seven people indicated that among the people they knew who had experienced a vaccine adverse event, the person they knew best had died."
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 31, 2023, 01:27:13 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 30, 2023, 11:58:47 PM
Just to be aware PHP of a recent study showing increased chance of getting Covid the more boosters taken... could be bullshit

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.17.22283625v1.full-text (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.17.22283625v1.full-text)

Interesting paper. Albeit not yet peer reviewed.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on January 31, 2023, 01:34:48 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 31, 2023, 01:22:42 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 31, 2023, 12:40:14 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 31, 2023, 12:31:34 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 31, 2023, 12:08:41 AM
Quote from: Seamus on January 31, 2023, 12:01:15 AM
Quote from: PadraicHenryPearse on January 30, 2023, 11:03:06 PM
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03626-1#:~:text=The%20world%20was%20able%20to,moving%20more%20quickly%20than%20normal.

try using Google to see how trials were conducted quicker than normal... plenty of them.. here is one.

That article was from December 2020, now move forward to January 24, 2023 to the article I posted to find the true results of the trial on the public who are being used as guinea pigs.

it doesn't matter that it was written in 2020, it was about how the vaccines were produced quicker and quicker doesn't mean less safe!!!

random links on gaabaord from anonymous poster is where I should get all my information from!!!

The January 24th article proves that you are incorrect. Your sarcasm may have a better chance of giving you protection than any of the COVID jabs.

the survey that included asking non vaccinated people (about half the 2800) if they knew a vaccinated person that had side effects. very scientific...


You conveniently left out the following:

"However, even among the vaccinated participants only, 15% knew someone in their social circle who had a significant health problem after they received the vaccine.

This 15% rate may still sound high to the vaccine proponents.

But among the vaccinated participants themselves, 13% reported experiencing a severe health issue after the vaccine (see table 2).

Regarding vaccine deaths, "fifty-seven people indicated that among the people they knew who had experienced a vaccine adverse event, the person they knew best had died."

I left it out as in my opinion a study that includes 2nd hand information like this survey did isn't worthy of any consideration...
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on January 31, 2023, 01:37:21 AM
For those who think they have Long COVID or are having ongoing side effects from the jab the following blood tests need to be taken. Then consult a competent professional, preferably not in the field of allopathic medicine. We need to save lives and get people back to good health.

Here is the Test List:

Complete blood count with differential and platelet count

D-Dimer

Troponin

CRP

Fibrinogen
   
Factor VIII
   
von Willebrand factor (vWF)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 31, 2023, 09:26:34 AM
Look, here is some stuff I found on the internet that scientists forgot about!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: grounded on January 31, 2023, 09:29:15 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 31, 2023, 09:26:34 AM
Look, here is some stuff I found on the internet that scientists forgot about!

At least post a link to it!
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 09:31:35 AM
Here's a recent story I found in the interwebs. Hope youse don't mind me sharing

Growing Number of Doctors Say They Won't Get COVID-19 Booster Shots
https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_app/growing-number-of-doctors-say-they-wont-get-covid-19-booster-shots_5019786.html?utm_campaign=app-cc&utm_source=ref_share& (https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_app/growing-number-of-doctors-say-they-wont-get-covid-19-booster-shots_5019786.html?utm_campaign=app-cc&utm_source=ref_share&)

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 31, 2023, 09:37:03 AM
How big a deal is that tho? I'm firmly pro vaccine but I reckon I'm done with covid booster jabs,  so what?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 31, 2023, 09:39:57 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 31, 2023, 09:37:03 AM
How big a deal is that tho? I'm firmly pro vaccine but I reckon I'm done with covid booster jabs,  so what?

Yeah that would be exactly my view now too.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: LeoMc on January 31, 2023, 10:03:21 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 31, 2023, 09:39:57 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 31, 2023, 09:37:03 AM
How big a deal is that tho? I'm firmly pro vaccine but I reckon I'm done with covid booster jabs,  so what?

Yeah that would be exactly my view now too.
Same, I took them to slow the spread of infection to prevent the health service being overwhelmed. Now, providing vulnerable groups are protected it can run its less destructive course.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on January 31, 2023, 12:23:47 PM
By not getting anymore booster shots people are subconsciously admitting they were duped but are fearful of the truth. Cognitive dissonance at its very best. Saving granny has been disproved along time ago.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 31, 2023, 12:27:50 PM
Bullshit.

The initial vaccines were very effective.

As the virus rapidly evolved, the level of effectiveness declined.

There's nothing new or contradictory about that.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Seamus on January 31, 2023, 12:38:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2023, 12:27:50 PM
Bullshit.

The initial vaccines were very effective.

As the virus rapidly evolved, the level of effectiveness declined.

There's nothing new or contradictory about that.

Total Bullshit
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Armagh18 on January 31, 2023, 12:44:14 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 31, 2023, 12:23:47 PM
By not getting anymore booster shots people are subconsciously admitting they were duped but are fearful of the truth. Cognitive dissonance at its very best. Saving granny has been disproved along time ago.
I took it for the pure and simple reason of saving hassle for going on holiday, never gave a shite about covid but don't think the vaccine is gonna do much harm at the end of the day.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 31, 2023, 12:49:25 PM
Quote from: Seamus on January 31, 2023, 12:38:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2023, 12:27:50 PM
Bullshit.

The initial vaccines were very effective.

As the virus rapidly evolved, the level of effectiveness declined.

There's nothing new or contradictory about that.

Total Bullshit

Vaccines save lives. I wish you well.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 01:11:39 PM
Natural immunity saved lives.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 31, 2023, 01:40:52 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 01:11:39 PM
Natural immunity saved lives.

Natural stupidity costs lives.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 01:43:01 PM
Natural immunity is stupid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 31, 2023, 02:02:19 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 01:11:39 PM
Natural immunity saved lives.

For those fortunate enough to make it through the infection with their life intact.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 02:12:02 PM
For those who got vaccinated but didn't make it
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: J70 on January 31, 2023, 02:21:40 PM
You'd swear listening to some of you lads that spring 2020 never happened. Thousands dying, including nurses and doctors. Hospitals unable to cope. Refrigeration trucks being brought in to store bodies. No one sure how exactly the virus was transmitted initially. No one sure exactly how to treat it. Massive PPE shortages.

All bullshit spread by a compliant media conspiring with the government to shut down economies to some nefarious end and accepted by population of sheep.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 31, 2023, 02:38:07 PM
Tbh the whole thing is kind of pointless. It becomes not a debate - you're stupid no you're stupid. That is what it has descended into. Again.

There's nothing these articles being posted here say that will make me suddenly become an "anti vaxxer". I find what they omit usually more interesting than what they include.  On the flip side there's nothing that I would say that would convince those who are anti vaxxers otherwise. That's just the way it is.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2023, 02:38:47 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2023, 02:21:40 PM
You'd swear listening to some of you lads that spring 2020 never happened. Thousands dying, including nurses and doctors. Hospitals unable to cope. Refrigeration trucks being brought in to store bodies. No one sure how exactly the virus was transmitted initially. No one sure exactly how to treat it. Massive PPE shortages.

All bullshit spread by a compliant media conspiring with the government to shut down economies to some nefarious end and accepted by population of sheep.

This guy has a lot to answer for

(https://scontent-lhr8-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/10363785_1039747882706789_4961522641732537297_n.png?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=fu5j-gsJJRIAX_CJJV9&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr8-2.xx&oh=00_AfAbREeE1h8TzRZab6m6vGH3WEDbFMCQ4u8rsSfOxgvXqw&oe=640090EA)
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: bennydorano on January 31, 2023, 02:41:37 PM
Quick google - 6.83m dead from covid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 31, 2023, 02:42:51 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 09:31:35 AM
Here's a recent story I found in the interwebs. Hope youse don't mind me sharing

Growing Number of Doctors Say They Won't Get COVID-19 Booster Shots
https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_app/growing-number-of-doctors-say-they-wont-get-covid-19-booster-shots_5019786.html?utm_campaign=app-cc&utm_source=ref_share& (https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_app/growing-number-of-doctors-say-they-wont-get-covid-19-booster-shots_5019786.html?utm_campaign=app-cc&utm_source=ref_share&)


Another far right rag. Printing mostly complete garbage.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: JoG2 on January 31, 2023, 02:46:55 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 31, 2023, 02:38:07 PM
Tbh the whole thing is kind of pointless. It becomes not a debate - you're stupid no you're stupid. That is what it has descended into. Again.

There's nothing these articles being posted here say that will make me suddenly become an "anti vaxxer". I find what they omit usually more interesting than what they include.  On the flip side there's nothing that I would say that would convince those who are anti vaxxers otherwise. That's just the way it is.

That's it. The Covid denying / anti vax / conspiracy theorists seem to become all consumed though, it takes over, it's hard to switch off as is evident on here. You see it with people online, not sure how they have the time to achieve anything else during the working week.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: seafoid on January 31, 2023, 02:51:59 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on January 31, 2023, 02:41:37 PM
Quick google - 6.83m dead from covid
Probably on the low side. Most Chinese deaths are not recorded as Covid
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 02:55:33 PM
Cumulative excess deaths in 2021 and 2022 are as bad as 2020

Not crazy to question the claim that vaccines "work" is an open and shut case?

BTW... The ad hominem stuff here is pretty much one way.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: imtommygunn on January 31, 2023, 03:08:46 PM
What are you questioning though? Are you questioning whether they work or are you questioning whether it's a massive conspiracy?
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 31, 2023, 03:45:32 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 02:55:33 PM
Cumulative excess deaths in 2021 and 2022 are as bad as 2020

Not crazy to question the claim that vaccines "work" is an open and shut case?

BTW... The ad hominem stuff here is pretty much one way.

You're almost 10 times less likely to die if you've had the vaccine. That's as effective as the vast majority of vaccines.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: lenny on January 31, 2023, 03:49:04 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 31, 2023, 02:46:55 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 31, 2023, 02:38:07 PM
Tbh the whole thing is kind of pointless. It becomes not a debate - you're stupid no you're stupid. That is what it has descended into. Again.

There's nothing these articles being posted here say that will make me suddenly become an "anti vaxxer". I find what they omit usually more interesting than what they include.  On the flip side there's nothing that I would say that would convince those who are anti vaxxers otherwise. That's just the way it is.

That's it. The Covid denying / anti vax / conspiracy theorists seem to become all consumed though, it takes over, it's hard to switch off as is evident on here. You see it with people online, not sure how they have the time to achieve anything else during the working week.

The problem I have is the anti vax crowd generally believe lots of other conspiracy theories. Most of these are propagated by the far right who like to disrupt politics and create populist and very divisive ideas. Almost every single anti vax link posted here has come from a far right source.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 03:55:00 PM
I question everything ITG. I support debate as should everyone who is confident in their argument, but instead what has happened is that Governments, health authorities, intelligence agencies, pharma, social media, MSM all in lock step, attenuated/silenced and continue to attenuate/silence alternate interpretations of the last few years as the try desperately to control the narrative.
My suspicions get perked whenever I see one side trying to shut down rather than encourage debate. This happened from the get go and has kept going. This has never been a fair fight

Lab leak
Lockdown policy
Driving fear
Lack of effort on alternative treatments which made the EUA sign off on money making new patented vaccines/drugs a matter of expediency
Masking works
Mandates to stay employed
Get vaccinated and you won't get sick,
Vaccines stop the spread
The unvaccinated are killing people
Children need to get vaccinated to protect granny
Natural immunity should be ignored, no focus about adverse reactions)

I trust nothing from any organisation involved in shutting down debate.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: trailer on January 31, 2023, 04:02:11 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 03:55:00 PM
I question everything ITG. I support debate as should everyone who is confident in their argument, but instead what has happened is that Governments, health authorities, intelligence agencies, pharma, social media, MSM all in lock step, attenuated/silenced and continue to attenuate/silence alternate interpretations of the last few years as the try desperately to control the narrative.
My suspicions get perked whenever I see one side trying to shut down rather than encourage debate. This happened from the get go and has kept going. This has never been a fair fight

Lab leak
Lockdown policy
Driving fear
Lack of effort on alternative treatments which made the EUA sign off on money making new patented vaccines/drugs a matter of expediency
Masking works
Mandates to stay employed
Get vaccinated and you won't get sick,
Vaccines stop the spread
The unvaccinated are killing people
Children need to get vaccinated to protect granny
Natural immunity should be ignored, no focus about adverse reactions)

I trust nothing from any organisation involved in shutting down debate.

We literally can't even build a road in NI but all these agencies are in "lockstep" over Covid.

Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 04:07:38 PM
At least Paul Frews on our side  ;D
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: armaghniac on January 31, 2023, 04:12:01 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 03:55:00 PM
I question everything ITG. I support debate as should everyone who is confident in their argument, but instead what has happened is that Governments, health authorities, intelligence agencies, pharma, social media, MSM all in lock step, attenuated/silenced and continue to attenuate/silence alternate interpretations of the last few years as the try desperately to control the narrative.
My suspicions get perked whenever I see one side trying to shut down rather than encourage debate. This happened from the get go and has kept going. This has never been a fair fight

Lab leak
Lockdown policy
Driving fear
Lack of effort on alternative treatments which made the EUA sign off on money making new patented vaccines/drugs a matter of expediency
Masking works
Mandates to stay employed
Get vaccinated and you won't get sick,
Vaccines stop the spread
The unvaccinated are killing people
Children need to get vaccinated to protect granny
Natural immunity should be ignored, no focus about adverse reactions)

I trust nothing from any organisation involved in shutting down debate.

The only example of everyone colluding to present misinformation is Santa Claus and this only works on the under 8s.

As for debate, expressions of opinion unfounded in data or scientific methods should never be regarded as equal to information that has been scientifically validated.
Title: Re: China Coronavirus
Post by: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 05:27:56 PM
    Quote from: armaghniac on January 31, 2023, 04:12:01 PM
    The only example of everyone colluding to present misinformation is Santa Claus and this only works on the under 8s.
    Not true

    Quote from: armaghniac on January 31, 2023, 04:12:01 PM
    As for debate, expressions of opinion unfounded in data or scientific methods should never be regarded as equal to information that has been scientifically validated.

    Scientifically validated by The Science ... come on man. You don't understand how science works if you believe the above statement. Lets look at the positions taken by those with the power to control the narrative.

    Lab leak ... Both Fauci and Peter Daszak had total control of 'the science' on this one even though they were tied to the gain of function work being done on coronavirus's in Wuhan. No difficult questions from the media or governments. strange
    Lockdown policy ... Fauci and Collins ridiculed the Great Barrington Declaration which calling for a different approach (i,e to basically do what was agreed years previously in the event of a pandemic outbreak).. the media went with the science and social media did government and intelligence agencies bidding to attenuate or silence the voices of those pushing the GBD.
    Driving fear .... every day on the news about covid deaths numbers. Strange that the same media have went out of their way to avoid discussing adverse reaction signals or making the same noise about excess deaths today?
    Lack of effort on alternative treatments which made the EUA sign off on money making new patented vaccines/drugs a matter of expediency....... can anyone remember active efforts to find treatment protocols in the early weeks and months of covid. I can't. Lots of doctors tried to get their voices heard but were silenced. Doctors forbade to offer ivermectin etc. Just go home and wait for things to get really bad. Made the EUA sign off very straight forward. Nothing was worth a try in those early stages.
    Vitamin D. Again ... Public health messaging was ...theres no evidence it will help, rather than lets give this a real go especially in those early days.
    Masking works. There was zero evidence of being true and recent studies have rubbished, but "the science" said it worked.
    Mandates to stay employed..... Natural immunity wasn't and still isn't good in many places. No one questioned 'the science'
    Get vaccinated and you won't get sick... wasn't true but got pumped out public health officials, presidents, pharma, talk show hosts , social media messaging etc
    Vaccines stop the spread ... wasn't true but got pumped out public health officials, presidents, pharma, talk show hosts , social media messaging 
    The unvaccinated are killing people .... was just scaremongering but 'the science' was able to propagate this
    Children need to get vaccinated to protect granny .... a healthy society should be protecting the health of our children first. 'The science' didn't think so regardless of the increased risk of adverse reactions to the younger population
    Natural immunity should be ignored.... 'the science' told us this and everyone went with it
    No focus about adverse reactions .... from Pharma, governments, media. You would think science would be interested in adverse reaction signals. Strange this doesnt get attention.. but hey lets go with the science.[/li][/list]

    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: imtommygunn on January 31, 2023, 05:31:25 PM
    Quote from: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 04:07:38 PM
    At least Paul Frews on our side  ;D

    ;D

    You wouldn't be known as a contrary person would you  ;D

    Some of your points I don't disagree with tbh however the lock step thing is for me a bit too far into tin foil hat territory. The co-ordination that would require is just not going to happen and for me there's pretty much a 0% chance of it.

    The lockdown thing went too far and I think most people would agree. It was needed at a point and it absolutely was at the very beginning and nothing anyone says to me could convince me otherwise but it should have stopped earlier and sily rules shouldn't have been in e.g. graveyards etc to quote but one. The people losing their job over vaccines went too far too.

    It's been a bit disappointing trying to read articles etc on the whole thing  from both sidestbh. I would like to follow both sides but some of it is just a bit too far for me - e.g. I don't think it;'s been mentioned here but the thing this week is that pfizer are supposed to be mutating covid now so to create a need for more vaccines. Sometimes the thing has just strayed into fantasy land and meaningful debate can not happen. There is so much misinformation that tbh I have given up on it.

    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: J70 on January 31, 2023, 05:32:12 PM
    Quote from: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 03:55:00 PM
    I question everything ITG. I support debate as should everyone who is confident in their argument, but instead what has happened is that Governments, health authorities, intelligence agencies, pharma, social media, MSM all in lock step, attenuated/silenced and continue to attenuate/silence alternate interpretations of the last few years as the try desperately to control the narrative.
    My suspicions get perked whenever I see one side trying to shut down rather than encourage debate. This happened from the get go and has kept going. This has never been a fair fight

    Lab leak
    Lockdown policy
    Driving fear
    Lack of effort on alternative treatments which made the EUA sign off on money making new patented vaccines/drugs a matter of expediency
    Masking works
    Mandates to stay employed
    Get vaccinated and you won't get sick,
    Vaccines stop the spread
    The unvaccinated are killing people
    Children need to get vaccinated to protect granny
    Natural immunity should be ignored, no focus about adverse reactions)

    I trust nothing from any organisation involved in shutting down debate.

    Lab leak – what about it? Is there any evidence out there that it originated in a lab as opposed to jumping species through wet markets?

    Lockdown policy – Seriously, there was no debate? I remember state capitols under siege in the US and a governor subject to a kidnapping plot during the backlash. That's not to say that  there were no serious lessons to learn, but its easy in retrospect, isn't it? Its a lot different in the moment when everyone is scrambling while a novel virus which is killing people left and right is spreading like wildfire internationally and overwhelming health systems and hospitals.

    Driving fear – right because there's no fear mongering from the anti-vax crowd.

    Lack of effort on alternative treatments which made the EUA sign off on money making new patented vaccines/drugs a matter of expediency – what did you have in mind?

    Masking works – this was based on DECADES of medical practice. Mask up to try to limit spreading your germs to others. You want your surgeon going opening up your insides while unmasked? Same principle. Once PPE supplies got under control, attention turned towards trying to get people to go with better masks such as N95s and whatever their equivalents are in  non-US countries, as these offer both respiratory protection AND source control. And it was just one element of trying to limit spread. No one said masking itself was a panacaea.

    Mandates to stay employed – this was heavily debated. And rejected in many areas.

    Get vaccinated and you won't get sick - on the contrary, what I remember was get vaccinated and you are far less likely to be hospitalized or killed by the virus.

    Vaccines stop the spread – that was the idea initially. Unfortunately with the way the world and the virus is, many parts of the planet didn't have access to vaccines and new strains arose and spread. And significant minorities in areas where vaccines WERE available refused to get vaccinated anyway.

    The unvaccinated are killing people – before Omicron, the unvaccinated were more likely to catch and spread the virus.

    Children need to get vaccinated to protect granny – personally, I was fine with this and vaccinated my kids (again, before Omicron) to help protect the more vulnerable in our circle. The idea that this was not controversial or subject to debate is ludicrous, however.

    Natural immunity should be ignored, no focus about adverse reactions – the issue in 2021 was that so many people did not have natural immunity as they hadn't yet caught covid. Vaccination was the best way to get people protected without running the gauntlet of infection. But yeah, in retrospect, I'd imagine more allowances should have been made for natural immunity. There was tonnes of news and debate about adverse reactions. Unfortunately for the "skeptics", when you hype up and present one-sided data just like you're accusing the authorities of doing and push poorly supported "cures", most people, who after all are NOT experts, are going to go with the professionals, just like they do in just about every aspect of their lives.

    I trust nothing from any organisation involved in shutting down debate. Personally I don't trust much from organizations who time and again cherry pick evidence and ally themselves with those who trade in conspiracy theorizing across multiple fields.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 06:38:01 PM
    Just to pick a few ... as my dinners ready

    Lab leak ... Peter Daszak, the man who's lab funded the work being done on corona virus research in Wuhan was the man personally tasked to go to Wuhan early in 2020 upon news of the outbreak and came back to tell Tony Fauci (who funded Peter Daszaks lab for researching these virus) and the world, it looks as if it came from a wet market. The world believed Fauci and Daszak ...

    Come on guys ... that is plain weird

    Lockdown policy ... read up on the Great Barrington Declaration https://gbdeclaration.org/ (https://gbdeclaration.org/)
    The authors of this was shadow banned on social media ... https://www.aier.org/article/twitter-files-confirm-censorship-of-the-great-barrington-declaration/ (https://www.aier.org/article/twitter-files-confirm-censorship-of-the-great-barrington-declaration/)

    Lack of effort on alternative treatments which made the EUA sign off on money making new patented vaccines/drugs a matter of expediency – what did you have in mind? .. I thought we'd see a global collaborative effort of frontline doctors using their expertise to (through trial and error) come up with treatments which helped the critical or treat them before they got critically ill. Doctor who tried to encourage this were gas lit/ridiculed by governments and MSM.

    Mandates to stay employed – this was heavily debated. And rejected in many areas. ... It was mostly a coercion tactic. Some countries worse than others. In the US my company told staff they had to get vaccinated or lose their jobs, even though everyone working from home .. oh the science of it all

    Get vaccinated and you won't get sick - on the contrary, what I remember was get vaccinated and you are far less likely to be hospitalized or killed by the virus. ... June 2021 ... "It's as simple as black and white. You're vaccinated, you're safe. You're unvaccinated, you're at risk. Simple as that," says Dr. Anthony Fauci. https://youtu.be/OrjMLONm-Bw (https://youtu.be/OrjMLONm-Bw) ... I thought he was the science  ;)

    My point being (and I don't expect to win over anyone), I don't think its unreasonable for those who see these sorts of controls on messaging and develop suspicions on the back of seeing them. There is too much vested interest/perverse incentives between all parties here for me to think instead of their own, they have my best interest at heart.

    Big Pharma MASSIVELY funds Government health organisations meant to oversee their research
    Revolving door between Government organisations and the Pharma companies
    Labs running clinical trails get paid by the companies of the drugs they are testing
    The Pharmaceutical industry in the United States spent 6.88 billion U.S. dollars on direct-to-consumer advertising in 2021. No incentive for any of these media companies to ask difficult questions.
    Pharma has a history of releasing drugs when safety signals were ignored .. think vioxx and Valdecoxib

    As I say, you mightn't see it my way, but I'm not telling any lies to steer anyones opinion one way or the other. I'm
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2023, 06:48:58 PM
    Hopefully your dinner hasn't any pesticides or steroids in it ;D
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 07:03:18 PM
    As long as the cow wasn't vaccinated for Covid I'm good  :)
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: LeoMc on January 31, 2023, 07:42:07 PM
    Quote from: Seamus on January 31, 2023, 12:23:47 PM
    By not getting anymore booster shots people are subconsciously admitting they were duped but are fearful of the truth. Cognitive dissonance at its very best. Saving granny has been disproved along time ago.
    Nope. I once did a parachute jump. I wore a parachute to cushion the fall. I don't wear a parachute now, not because I was duped by the pilot, but because I don't need one.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: imtommygunn on January 31, 2023, 08:35:24 PM
    It's not about telling lies though skull. You take information and you draw a conclusion. That doesn't make it the truth or accurate- it makes it an interpretation. Granted you could apply that to either "side"

    You give one hundred people the same info and how many will draw the same conclusion?

    Anyway I am not buying what you're selling and you're not buying what others are selling either but that's everyone's right.

    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: J70 on January 31, 2023, 09:03:33 PM
    It could take many years for the origin of the virus to be established. Just like HIV. Or some of the haemorragic viruses. That will done by scientists, not conspiracy theorists or right wing politicians with an agenda.

    The origins have been the subject of much discussion in the scientific world. The idea that it's all being swept under the carpet is nonsense. The maligned Dr Daszak was warning the world about coronaviruses for years, but now he's just a corrupt punch bag for the right, same as Fauci.

    The conspiracy theorists can't lose with this one. Lab leak is confirmed - they can go with the malicious release angle. Direct animal origin found - cover up by evil scientists and the Chinese.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Gmac on January 31, 2023, 09:16:36 PM
    Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2023, 09:03:33 PM
    It could take many years for the origin of the virus to be established. Just like HIV. Or some of the haemorragic viruses. That will done by scientists, not conspiracy theorists or right wing politicians with an agenda.

    The origins have been the subject of much discussion in the scientific world. The idea that it's all being swept under the carpet is nonsense. The maligned Dr Daszak was warning the world about coronaviruses for years, but now he's just a corrupt punch bag for the right, same as Fauci.

    The conspiracy theorists can't lose with this one. Lab leak is confirmed - they can go with the malicious release angle. Direct animal origin found - cover up by evil scientists and the Chinese.
    Pfizer either lied or didn't know about transmission, they claimed 95% proof against getting the virus once you were vaccinated, efficacy seems like a lie too but it's all a right wing conspiracy theory. A nice company like Pfizer would never lie about a first time product and make hundreds of billions off it but only release it with full immunity , no you would be silly to even think about that stuff.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: J70 on January 31, 2023, 09:21:58 PM
    Quote from: Gmac on January 31, 2023, 09:16:36 PM
    Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2023, 09:03:33 PM
    It could take many years for the origin of the virus to be established. Just like HIV. Or some of the haemorragic viruses. That will done by scientists, not conspiracy theorists or right wing politicians with an agenda.

    The origins have been the subject of much discussion in the scientific world. The idea that it's all being swept under the carpet is nonsense. The maligned Dr Daszak was warning the world about coronaviruses for years, but now he's just a corrupt punch bag for the right, same as Fauci.

    The conspiracy theorists can't lose with this one. Lab leak is confirmed - they can go with the malicious release angle. Direct animal origin found - cover up by evil scientists and the Chinese.
    Pfizer either lied or didn't know about transmission, they claimed 95% proof against getting the virus once you were vaccinated, efficacy seems like a lie too but it's all a right wing conspiracy theory. A nice company like Pfizer would never lie about a first time product and make hundreds of billions off it but only release it with full immunity , no you would be silly to even think about that stuff.

    What does Pfizer have to do with the origin of the virus?

    Was that them too?

    Do you have data to contradict their claims, as stated by you, on the initial vaccines and the viral strains at the time?

    Don't you right wingers love big corporations? Or is it just certain fields like oil?
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: armaghniac on January 31, 2023, 09:45:35 PM
    Quote from: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 06:38:01 PM

    Get vaccinated and you won't get sick - on the contrary, what I remember was get vaccinated and you are far less likely to be hospitalized or killed by the virus. ... June 2021 ... "It's as simple as black and white. You're vaccinated, you're safe. You're unvaccinated, you're at risk. Simple as that," says Dr. Anthony Fauci. https://youtu.be/OrjMLONm-Bw (https://youtu.be/OrjMLONm-Bw) ... I thought he was the science  ;)

    This is a bit like the seat belt ads which imply that they will save you in a road accident. Of course, some people are still killed in road accidents, but seat belts do reduce injuries.
    The science never implied that a vaccine eliminated risk, the trials did not show that. They greatly reduced risk.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: grounded on January 31, 2023, 10:04:08 PM
    The thing I find most difficult to understand was the huge drive in Ireland and the uk to have children under 12 vaccinated. Even though by that stage the health authorities and vaccine developers had access to the data regarding transmission rates, prior covid-19 infections and natural immunity and morbidity in that grouping.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Gmac on January 31, 2023, 11:06:54 PM
    Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2023, 09:21:58 PM
    Quote from: Gmac on January 31, 2023, 09:16:36 PM
    Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2023, 09:03:33 PM
    It could take many years for the origin of the virus to be established. Just like HIV. Or some of the haemorragic viruses. That will done by scientists, not conspiracy theorists or right wing politicians with an agenda.

    The origins have been the subject of much discussion in the scientific world. The idea that it's all being swept under the carpet is nonsense. The maligned Dr Daszak was warning the world about coronaviruses for years, but now he's just a corrupt punch bag for the right, same as Fauci.

    The conspiracy theorists can't lose with this one. Lab leak is confirmed - they can go with the malicious release angle. Direct animal origin found - cover up by evil scientists and the Chinese.
    Pfizer either lied or didn't know about transmission, they claimed 95% proof against getting the virus once you were vaccinated, efficacy seems like a lie too but it's all a right wing conspiracy theory. A nice company like Pfizer would never lie about a first time product and make hundreds of billions off it but only release it with full immunity , no you would be silly to even think about that stuff.

    What does Pfizer have to do with the origin of the virus?

    Was that them too?

    Do you have data to contradict their claims, as stated by you, on the initial vaccines and the viral strains at the time?

    Don't you right wingers love big corporations? Or is it just certain fields like oil?
    I never said Pfizer started it but where do you think it came from ?
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: theskull1 on January 31, 2023, 11:08:53 PM
    Just an unrelated example showing how much Governments and the Healthcare industry care.
    https://youtu.be/uWpEYpqpAPY (https://youtu.be/uWpEYpqpAPY)
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: From the Bunker on January 31, 2023, 11:53:58 PM
    Quote from: grounded on January 31, 2023, 10:04:08 PM
    The thing I find most difficult to understand was the huge drive in Ireland and the uk to have children under 12 vaccinated. Even though by that stage the health authorities and vaccine developers had access to the data regarding transmission rates, prior covid-19 infections and natural immunity and morbidity in that grouping.

    Yeah, they were asking the SAFEST group to take a trial vaccine that did not stop the spread and would do nothing more than their own natural defences would.

    Six foot good. Five foot bad!  ;D
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: theskull1 on February 01, 2023, 12:01:52 AM
    Linking this CNBC youtube video to see if it can get a few more likes ..... No clue why would only have get 44 likes in 13 days seeing that this mans company has saved millions of lives. Comments aren't very nice either. Almost as if they don't believe him. Do you?

    https://youtu.be/bXNBb8kx_3Q (https://youtu.be/bXNBb8kx_3Q)
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Seamus on February 01, 2023, 05:22:54 AM
    Quote from: theskull1 on February 01, 2023, 12:01:52 AM
    Linking this CNBC youtube video to see if it can get a few more likes ..... No clue why would only have get 44 likes in 13 days seeing that this mans company has saved millions of lives. Comments aren't very nice either. Almost as if they don't believe him. Do you?

    https://youtu.be/bXNBb8kx_3Q (https://youtu.be/bXNBb8kx_3Q)

    Over 10B in fines and that disgusting company still survives. 44 likes indeed, this board could double that in a matter of hours. Now they may be dreading to click the thumbs up, Big Brother is watching :)  Dislikes, if shown would be in the thousands going by the views and brilliant comments. There is hope for humanity. That evil dark person will be locked up and answer for his crimes, God willing.

    skull, you omitted a few very important items from you brilliant synopses.

    The large amount of incentives that were offered to get the jab. When they started to target the kids it became really sick.

    The amount of funds the hospitals were receiving for diagnosing a person with COVID-19. Many came in with different ailments including from car accidents and gunshot wounds, were given the PCR test and like magic tested positive. Cause of death given...COVID, ching ching.

    The very elderly dying of what elderly people die of for thousands of years... cause of death COVID. ching ching.

    The total eradication of the flu and cancer and other diseases was relatively cured in the first year of COVID. Unfortunately they has made a slight come back in the last couple of years.

    Placing a COVID patient on a ventilator if only for as little as 15 minutes, thousands of dollars/Euros etc. more.....ching ching

    Over 90% of the elderly when put on a ventilator died so why keep doing it?

    Good that you mentioned Veklury, more commonly known as Remdesivir. This failed drug along with the medical ventilator is the worldwide protocol for COVID-19. They knew it was a terrible failure, what did they administer that deadly drug?

    One of my best friends went to hospital because he tested positive for COVID-19. I warned him not to go, he didn't listen. He lasted less than three days. He was placed on a ventilator and given Remdesivir. A lung collapsed and organs closed down. His Death Certificate is a sorrowful read.  I will never forget October 25, 2021. I have helped his widowed wife carry on his businesses as best as I could. It is the very least I could do. I'm a very forgiving person but I will find it very difficult to forgive what The Powers That Shouldn't Be have done to my good friend.

    Please do a thorough research on Remdesivir along with how crucial it is to have the proper settings on a ventilator. Many interns with no clue were given the controls without any supervision. In NY I know of intern nurses getting paid up to $1,800 per day. The funds were readily available because of the diagnoses and protocol. Sleaze ball Cuomo answered for something else, a possible cover. The Nursing Home debacle was only part of his COVID crimes.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 07:32:29 AM
    Oh how I missed this  ;D
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: trailer on February 01, 2023, 09:42:00 AM
    Governments need to put more money in mental health.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: bennydorano on February 01, 2023, 11:10:16 AM
    Not to denigrate the opinions expressed on this thread but in general, it must be exhausting being of a conspiracy theorist's mindset, why all the crossover tho? Anti-Vaxxers will undoubtedly be stuck in the middle of pro Russian nonsense or extolling the virtues of Trump or telling us why all lives matter. I'd be thinking Facebook more so than here.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: RedHand88 on February 01, 2023, 11:15:08 AM
    Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 07:32:29 AM
    Oh how I missed this  ;D

    I know I didn't!
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: J70 on February 01, 2023, 11:24:33 AM
    Quote from: Gmac on January 31, 2023, 11:06:54 PM
    Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2023, 09:21:58 PM
    Quote from: Gmac on January 31, 2023, 09:16:36 PM
    Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2023, 09:03:33 PM
    It could take many years for the origin of the virus to be established. Just like HIV. Or some of the haemorragic viruses. That will done by scientists, not conspiracy theorists or right wing politicians with an agenda.

    The origins have been the subject of much discussion in the scientific world. The idea that it's all being swept under the carpet is nonsense. The maligned Dr Daszak was warning the world about coronaviruses for years, but now he's just a corrupt punch bag for the right, same as Fauci.

    The conspiracy theorists can't lose with this one. Lab leak is confirmed - they can go with the malicious release angle. Direct animal origin found - cover up by evil scientists and the Chinese.
    Pfizer either lied or didn't know about transmission, they claimed 95% proof against getting the virus once you were vaccinated, efficacy seems like a lie too but it's all a right wing conspiracy theory. A nice company like Pfizer would never lie about a first time product and make hundreds of billions off it but only release it with full immunity , no you would be silly to even think about that stuff.

    What does Pfizer have to do with the origin of the virus?

    Was that them too?

    Do you have data to contradict their claims, as stated by you, on the initial vaccines and the viral strains at the time?

    Don't you right wingers love big corporations? Or is it just certain fields like oil?
    I never said Pfizer started it but where do you think it came from ?

    Either it made the direct jump from animals (like so many have done and will do in the future) or it was accidentally released from a lab. The former more likely in my opinion. And a big cause for concern.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: J70 on February 01, 2023, 11:34:30 AM
    Quote from: bennydorano on February 01, 2023, 11:10:16 AM
    Not to denigrate the opinions expressed on this thread but in general, it must be exhausting being of a conspiracy theorist's mindset, why all the crossover tho? Anti-Vaxxers will undoubtedly be stuck in the middle of pro Russian nonsense or extolling the virtues of Trump or telling us why all lives matter. I'd be thinking Facebook more so than here.

    It's amazing how one belief can be predicted by another. They all share the idea that the conspiracy theorist is getting shafted and lied to by dark hidden forces, that everyone else is a mindless sheep and only they know the real story. They're all just "asking questions", independently conducting their "research". Yet they all end up in exactly the same place. ;D
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: theskull1 on February 01, 2023, 11:58:55 AM
    Appreciate the sympathy folks .... I'll see youse when you get there.

    At one point in time people who had concerns about these drugs/trials would have been labeled conspiracy theorists.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rofecoxib (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rofecoxib)
    QuoteIn September 2004, Merck voluntarily withdrew rofecoxib from the market because of concerns about increased risk of heart attack and stroke associated with long-term, high-dosage use. Merck withdrew the drug after disclosures that it withheld information about rofecoxib's risks from doctors and patients for over five years, allegedly resulting in between 88,000 and 140,000 cases of serious heart disease.[3] Rofecoxib was one of the most widely used drugs ever to be withdrawn from the market. In the year before withdrawal, Merck had sales revenue of US$2.5 billion from Vioxx.[4]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullahi_v._Pfizer,_Inc. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullahi_v._Pfizer,_Inc.)
    QuoteThe Kano trovafloxacin trial litigation arose out of a clinical trial conducted by the pharmaceutical company Pfizer in 1996 in Kano, Nigeria, during an epidemic of meningococcal meningitis. To test its new antibiotic, trovafloxacin (Trovan), Pfizer gave 100 children trovafloxacin, while another 100 received the gold-standard anti-meningitis treatment, ceftriaxone, a cephalosporin antibiotic.[1] Pfizer gave the children a substantially reduced dose of the ceftriaxone (specifically, 33 mg/kg)[2] relative to that described on the US FDA-approved prescribing information. The allegation is that this was done to skew the test in favor of its own drug.[3] Pfizer claimed that the dose used was sufficient even though a clinical trial performed by Médecins Sans Frontières recommends a dose of 50–100 mg/kg.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valdecoxib (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valdecoxib)
    QuoteValdecoxib is a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID) used in the treatment of osteoarthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, and painful menstruation and menstrual symptoms. It is a selective cyclooxygenase-2 inhibitor. It was patented in 1995.[1]

    Valdecoxib was manufactured and marketed under the brand name Bextra by G. D. Searle & Company as an anti-inflammatory arthritis drug.[2] It was approved by the United States Food and Drug Administration on November 20, 2001, to treat arthritis and menstrual cramps.[3][4] and was available by prescription in tablet form until 2005 when the FDA requested that Pfizer withdraw Bextra from the American market.[5] The FDA cited "potential increased risk for serious cardiovascular (CV) adverse events," an "increased risk of serious skin reactions" and the "fact that Bextra has not been shown to offer any unique advantages over the other available NSAIDs."[5]

    In 2009 Bextra was at the center of the "largest health care fraud settlement and the largest criminal fine of any kind ever."[3][6] Pfizer paid a $2.3 billion civil and criminal fine. Pharmacia & Upjohn, a Pfizer subsidiary, violated the United States Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act for misbranding Bextra "with the intent to defraud or mislead."[2]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study)
    QuoteThe Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male[1][2][3] (informally referred to as the Tuskegee Experiment or Tuskegee Syphilis Study) was a study conducted between 1932 and 1972 by the United States Public Health Service (PHS) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on a group of nearly 400 African Americans with syphilis.[4][5] The purpose of the study was to observe the effects of the disease when untreated, though by the end of the study medical advancements meant it was entirely treatable. The men were not informed of the nature of the experiment, and more than 100 died as a result.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 01, 2023, 12:24:54 PM
    QuoteAppreciate the sympathy folks .... I'll see youse when you get there.

    This is the thing I don't understand - where is "there"?

    What's the end result look like for you? You were right in your argument with a bunch of strangers on the internet?
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: J70 on February 01, 2023, 12:31:07 PM
    WERE those who raised concerns about those drugs labeled conspiracy theorists?

    Part of my issue with this is that the antivax stuff has become part of the culture war. It used to be that it was bunch of New Age hippy types who were pushing antivax stuff based on the Wakefield MMR controversy.

    With Covid, the antivax movement became part of the backlash to pandemic measures in general. No to masking, lockdowns and vaccines. Yes to "freedom" and Ivomec or whatever the miracle cure du jour being pushed by the contrarians and anti-establishment was that week.

    And these are all the same people who for years have dismissed real concerns about the likes of second hand smoking or asbestos or air and water pollution etc. The same people who support the Republican Party who back big corporations at every turn and try to screw the little people by abolishing health and safety and consumer protecting regulations as well as inflicting arbitration and barring class action lawsuits to resolve conflicts. Yet now they want us to listen to them? f**k them.

    It might turn out that the covid vaccines have some dangerous side effects (or it might not). But I'll look to the science and medical professionals for that analysis and advice. Professionals and analysis being the operative words.   
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Seamus on February 01, 2023, 12:45:52 PM
    The same old nonsense lazy Conspiracy Theorist labeling yet again when the people doing the labeling are the Real Conspiracy Theorists. Then Facebook was mentioned, censors of the truth and part of pushing the narrative. Same posters for years parroting mainstream news, unable and fearful of thinking for themselves. This is why the world is in the mess that it is with the majority of people of the same deluded mindset.

    Chemicals V Nutrition for the human body, it's an easy choice when it comes to healthcare. The Father of Modern Propaganda, Edward Bernays' legacy is alive and well and no greater evidence can be seen than on this board with close to 99% trapped endlessly from beyond the grave by his evil manipulating mind. The day will come when the parrots will whistle a different tune if they get lucky and live long enough.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: trailer on February 01, 2023, 12:55:01 PM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 01, 2023, 12:45:52 PM
    The same old nonsense lazy Conspiracy Theorist labeling yet again when the people doing the labeling are the Real Conspiracy Theorists. Then Facebook was mentioned, censors of the truth and part of pushing the narrative. Same posters for years parroting mainstream news, unable and fearful of thinking for themselves. This is why the world is in the mess that it is with the majority of people of the same deluded mindset.

    Chemicals V Nutrition for the human body, it's an easy choice when it comes to healthcare. The Father of Modern Propaganda, Edward Bernays' legacy is alive and well and no greater evidence can be seen than on this board with close to 99% trapped endlessly from beyond the grave by his evil manipulating mind. The day will come when the parrots will whistle a different tune if they get lucky and live long enough.

    You don't understand what chemicals are.

    Who was the Anti Vax, Anti Covid person here on the board who then caught it and nearly died?
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 01:00:45 PM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 01, 2023, 12:45:52 PM
    The same old nonsense lazy Conspiracy Theorist labeling yet again when the people doing the labeling are the Real Conspiracy Theorists. Then Facebook was mentioned, censors of the truth and part of pushing the narrative. Same posters for years parroting mainstream news, unable and fearful of thinking for themselves. This is why the world is in the mess that it is with the majority of people of the same deluded mindset.

    Chemicals V Nutrition for the human body, it's an easy choice when it comes to healthcare. The Father of Modern Propaganda, Edward Bernays' legacy is alive and well and no greater evidence can be seen than on this board with close to 99% trapped endlessly from beyond the grave by his evil manipulating mind. The day will come when the parrots will whistle a different tune if they get lucky and live long enough.

    Seamus what's your health like? The odd pint or two? smoke? Eat fresh food, no extra additives in your food, what about the sugars?

    These are the things that will kill you earlier than what you are looking for if you over indulge... In the very few I see healthy (body wise) over 80's there will no doubt be the cognitive decline, enjoy this period because you can avoid all sorts of 'big pharma' stuff all you like, but when the your shit starts coming out when you don't want it to then it'll be these evil medical big pharma people who'll sort that out ;)
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Seamus on February 01, 2023, 01:02:04 PM
    "And these are all the same people who for years have dismissed real concerns about the likes of second hand smoking or asbestos or air and water pollution etc. The same people who support the Republican Party who back big corporations at every turn and try to screw the little people by abolishing health and safety and consumer protecting regulations as well as inflicting arbitration and barring class action lawsuits to resolve conflicts. Yet now they want us to listen to them? f**k them".

    You are so naive, into labeling yet again. Do you back Big Pharma? Is there any bigger and more profitable Corporations in existence outside the likes of Blackwater, another corp you probably support. Do you support the unelected WEF? Klaus Schwab I bet is one of your heroes along with Gates and Fauci and of course Sleepy Joe. The you try and preach your mindless rhetoric from your little pulpit. You are sound reasonable and solid enough when it comes to the GAA, please keep away from world affairs as it further corrupts the already corrupted.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 01:08:01 PM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 01, 2023, 01:02:04 PM
    "And these are all the same people who for years have dismissed real concerns about the likes of second hand smoking or asbestos or air and water pollution etc. The same people who support the Republican Party who back big corporations at every turn and try to screw the little people by abolishing health and safety and consumer protecting regulations as well as inflicting arbitration and barring class action lawsuits to resolve conflicts. Yet now they want us to listen to them? f**k them".

    You are so naive, into labeling yet again. Do you back Big Pharma? Is there any bigger and more profitable Corporations in existence outside the likes of Blackwater, another corp you probably support. Do you support the unelected WEF? Klaus Schwab I bet is one of your heroes along with Gates and Fauci and of course Sleepy Joe. The you try and preach your mindless rhetoric from your little pulpit. You are sound reasonable and solid enough when it comes to the GAA, please keep away from world affairs as it further corrupts the already corrupted. mwahahaha, muwhahaha, muahahaha, bwahahaha

    You left out the evil laugh at the end, fixed it for you
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Seamus on February 01, 2023, 01:15:49 PM
    Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 01:00:45 PM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 01, 2023, 12:45:52 PM
    The same old nonsense lazy Conspiracy Theorist labeling yet again when the people doing the labeling are the Real Conspiracy Theorists. Then Facebook was mentioned, censors of the truth and part of pushing the narrative. Same posters for years parroting mainstream news, unable and fearful of thinking for themselves. This is why the world is in the mess that it is with the majority of people of the same deluded mindset.

    Chemicals V Nutrition for the human body, it's an easy choice when it comes to healthcare. The Father of Modern Propaganda, Edward Bernays' legacy is alive and well and no greater evidence can be seen than on this board with close to 99% trapped endlessly from beyond the grave by his evil manipulating mind. The day will come when the parrots will whistle a different tune if they get lucky and live long enough.

    Seamus what's your health like? The odd pint or two? smoke? Eat fresh food, no extra additives in your food, what about the sugars?

    These are the things that will kill you earlier than what you are looking for if you over indulge... In the very few I see healthy (body wise) over 80's there will no doubt be the cognitive decline, enjoy this period because you can avoid all sorts of 'big pharma' stuff all you like, but when the your shit starts coming out when you don't want it to then it'll be these evil medical big pharma people who'll sort that out ;)
    [/quote

    Milltown, running late for work, only read your first line and will answer. Yes, the odd few beers, very rare now, really gone from the pub scene, no top shelf ever. Never smoked. Eat all fresh organic food, even say that it has to be near impossible to avoid preservatives in this day and age. Exercise regularly, take  only the highest rated supplements. In absolute perfect health. Never got COVID and seemingly never will. Not been sick as for as far back as I remember. Will not go near a regular MD.  Alternative all the way. Helping others achieve optimal health, my life's mission. No vaccines since I was a child and never ever will again, even under gun point.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 01:19:00 PM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 01, 2023, 01:15:49 PM
    Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 01:00:45 PM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 01, 2023, 12:45:52 PM
    The same old nonsense lazy Conspiracy Theorist labeling yet again when the people doing the labeling are the Real Conspiracy Theorists. Then Facebook was mentioned, censors of the truth and part of pushing the narrative. Same posters for years parroting mainstream news, unable and fearful of thinking for themselves. This is why the world is in the mess that it is with the majority of people of the same deluded mindset.

    Chemicals V Nutrition for the human body, it's an easy choice when it comes to healthcare. The Father of Modern Propaganda, Edward Bernays' legacy is alive and well and no greater evidence can be seen than on this board with close to 99% trapped endlessly from beyond the grave by his evil manipulating mind. The day will come when the parrots will whistle a different tune if they get lucky and live long enough.

    Seamus what's your health like? The odd pint or two? smoke? Eat fresh food, no extra additives in your food, what about the sugars?

    These are the things that will kill you earlier than what you are looking for if you over indulge... In the very few I see healthy (body wise) over 80's there will no doubt be the cognitive decline, enjoy this period because you can avoid all sorts of 'big pharma' stuff all you like, but when the your shit starts coming out when you don't want it to then it'll be these evil medical big pharma people who'll sort that out ;)
    [/quote

    Milltown, running late for work, only read your first line and will answer. Yes, the odd few beers, very rare now, really gone from the pub scene, no top shelf ever. Never smoked. Eat all fresh organic food, even say that it has to be near impossible to avoid preservatives in this day and age. Exercise regularly, take  only the highest rated supplements. In absolute perfect health. Never got COVID and seemingly never will. Not been sick as for as far back as I remember. Will not go near a regular MD.  Alternative all the way. Helping others achieve optimal health, my life's mission. No vaccines since I was a child and never ever will again, even under gun point.

    Why are you taking supplements? If you are healthy and eating well?
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: theskull1 on February 01, 2023, 01:25:43 PM
    Some amount of straw manning arguments being deployed.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: J70 on February 01, 2023, 01:30:19 PM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 01, 2023, 01:02:04 PM
    "And these are all the same people who for years have dismissed real concerns about the likes of second hand smoking or asbestos or air and water pollution etc. The same people who support the Republican Party who back big corporations at every turn and try to screw the little people by abolishing health and safety and consumer protecting regulations as well as inflicting arbitration and barring class action lawsuits to resolve conflicts. Yet now they want us to listen to them? f**k them".

    You are so naive, into labeling yet again. Do you back Big Pharma? Is there any bigger and more profitable Corporations in existence outside the likes of Blackwater, another corp you probably support. Do you support the unelected WEF? Klaus Schwab I bet is one of your heroes along with Gates and Fauci and of course Sleepy Joe. The you try and preach your mindless rhetoric from your little pulpit. You are sound reasonable and solid enough when it comes to the GAA, please keep away from world affairs as it further corrupts the already corrupted.

    No, I don't "back" Big Pharma, or Big Oil, or Big Tech or any of these huge corporations and conglomerates. For better or worse, they're part of and shapers of the capitalist, globalized world we live in and that isn't going to change. I'm all in favour of reducing corporate influence on politics where most politicians of whatever leaning are bought and paid for by special interests, but Citizens United and the hostility of the Republican Party and their Supreme Court to sensible political funding has ended any prospect of that, at least in the US. I'm all in favour of strict regulations that impose standards on food, drugs, water, emissions, worker and consumer safety, pollution, conservation etc. etc and hold corporations accountable to the people. Are you?

    I'm fortunate enough that myself and my wife are able to pay little extra to support local, small businesses, both here in NYC and when upstate or out of state. Unfortunately, not everyone has that luxury. And unless you forgo having a car, a computer, tv, phone etc. etc., you're just as much as supporter of globalization and big corporations as the rest of us.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: theskull1 on February 01, 2023, 05:41:38 PM
    Pro covid vaccine academics talking to Jon Stewart about the vaccine hesitant.

    A Nuanced Conversation About COVID Vaccines (Yes, Really!) | The Problem with Jon Stewart Podcast

    QuoteWe're back and we're coming in hot with a conversation about COVID vaccines! We're joined by Dr. Gregory A. Poland (Director of Mayo Clinic's Vaccine Research Group), Dr. Saad Omer (Director of the Yale Institute for Global Health), and Zeynep Tufekci (Professor at Columbia University) who bring something that's often lacking from these conversations: nuance. We talk through why many non-crazy people are hesitant to get vaccinated, how our public health institutions have failed to communicate effectively with the masses, and why it should be perfectly okay to ask questions about the risks and benefits of any vaccine

    https://youtu.be/MLdw4stSgNU (https://youtu.be/MLdw4stSgNU)
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Gmac on February 01, 2023, 05:56:36 PM
    Quote from: J70 on February 01, 2023, 11:24:33 AM
    Quote from: Gmac on January 31, 2023, 11:06:54 PM
    Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2023, 09:21:58 PM
    Quote from: Gmac on January 31, 2023, 09:16:36 PM
    Quote from: J70 on January 31, 2023, 09:03:33 PM
    It could take many years for the origin of the virus to be established. Just like HIV. Or some of the haemorragic viruses. That will done by scientists, not conspiracy theorists or right wing politicians with an agenda.

    The origins have been the subject of much discussion in the scientific world. The idea that it's all being swept under the carpet is nonsense. The maligned Dr Daszak was warning the world about coronaviruses for years, but now he's just a corrupt punch bag for the right, same as Fauci.

    The conspiracy theorists can't lose with this one. Lab leak is confirmed - they can go with the malicious release angle. Direct animal origin found - cover up by evil scientists and the Chinese.
    Pfizer either lied or didn't know about transmission, they claimed 95% proof against getting the virus once you were vaccinated, efficacy seems like a lie too but it's all a right wing conspiracy theory. A nice company like Pfizer would never lie about a first time product and make hundreds of billions off it but only release it with full immunity , no you would be silly to even think about that stuff.

    What does Pfizer have to do with the origin of the virus?

    Was that them too?

    Do you have data to contradict their claims, as stated by you, on the initial vaccines and the viral strains at the time?

    Don't you right wingers love big corporations? Or is it just certain fields like oil?
    I never said Pfizer started it but where do you think it came from ?

    Either it made the direct jump from animals (like so many have done and will do in the future) or it was accidentally released from a lab. The former more likely in my opinion. And a big cause for concern.
    have we ever made vaccines before without identifying where the source of the virus came from and gave it to billions of people ?
    Can we vaccinate our way out of these situations when the virus is airborne and infects animals too ?
    I say vaccinate all pangolins!!
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: grounded on February 01, 2023, 07:42:00 PM
    Quote from: Seamus on January 31, 2023, 12:23:47 PM
    By not getting anymore booster shots people are subconsciously admitting they were duped but are fearful of the truth. Cognitive dissonance at its very best. Saving granny has been disproved along time ago.

    I'm not sure i would go as far as that Seamus, however you do raise an interesting point. Some people whether due to their own personal/family experience with previous c19 vaccinations or their own research have decided not to follow their government health authorities directions as regards C19 boosters. The advice is very clear for the general population. From the HSE website:
       '  It's important to keep up-to-date with your COVID-19 vaccines, even if you are already vaccinated or you have had COVID-19.
          The protection from previous doses or a COVID-19 infection may weaken with time. You may be at higher risk of severe disease if you get COVID-19.
          A booster can prevent the possibility of hospitalisation or death from COVID-19 illness'.

    Whats the difference between those deciding not to take the booster now and those who decided not to take the original two Covid vaccinations?  According to some on here, surely they are both AntiVaxxers.
           
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 08:13:09 PM
    Not taking the flu jab won't make me an anti vaxer will it?

    If you have high blood pressure will you take a tablet?
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Gmac on February 01, 2023, 08:46:28 PM
    Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 08:13:09 PM
    Not taking the flu jab won't make me an anti vaxer will it?

    If you have high blood pressure will you take a tablet?
    your body your choice 
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: grounded on February 01, 2023, 09:51:55 PM
    Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 08:13:09 PM
    Not taking the flu jab won't make me an anti vaxer will it?

    If you have high blood pressure will you take a tablet?

    In answer to your first question, i'd guess that depends on the reasons you won't take it and more importantly who you ask. I actually hate the term.
            I assume it came into the modern lexicon after the Andrew Wakefield controversy and the untold damage he caused. In the context of Covid 19,  it was used to denigrate not just those people who are genuine anti-vaccination of any type,  but also anybody who believed in tried and tested vaccination programmes( I include myself in that)but had grave misgivings about the C19 Vaccines specifically. 

    In answer to your second question, most definitely if prescribed by my doctor.
           
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 10:02:21 PM
    Quote from: grounded on February 01, 2023, 09:51:55 PM
    Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 08:13:09 PM
    Not taking the flu jab won't make me an anti vaxer will it?

    If you have high blood pressure will you take a tablet?

    In answer to your first question, i'd guess that depends on the reasons you won't take it and more importantly who you ask. I actually hate the term.
            I assume it came into the modern lexicon after the Andrew Wakefield controversy and the untold damage he caused. In the context of Covid 19,  it was used to denigrate not just those people who are genuine anti-vaccination of any type,  but also anybody who believed in tried and tested vaccination programmes( I include myself in that)but had grave misgivings about the C19 Vaccines specifically. 

    In answer to your second question, most definitely if prescribed by my doctor.
           

    So how long into the trials and development of the covid vaccine will you have confidence in it? Not that you'll take by the looks of it. Have you confidence in any vaccine?

    At least you'll take advice from a doctor and not a witch doctor like Seamus
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: grounded on February 01, 2023, 11:01:27 PM
    Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 10:02:21 PM
    Quote from: grounded on February 01, 2023, 09:51:55 PM
    Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 08:13:09 PM
    Not taking the flu jab won't make me an anti vaxer will it?

    If you have high blood pressure will you take a tablet?

    In answer to your first question, i'd guess that depends on the reasons you won't take it and more importantly who you ask. I actually hate the term.
            I assume it came into the modern lexicon after the Andrew Wakefield controversy and the untold damage he caused. In the context of Covid 19,  it was used to denigrate not just those people who are genuine anti-vaccination of any type,  but also anybody who believed in tried and tested vaccination programmes( I include myself in that)but had grave misgivings about the C19 Vaccines specifically. 

    In answer to your second question, most definitely if prescribed by my doctor.
           

    So how long into the trials and development of the covid vaccine will you have confidence in it? Not that you'll take by the looks of it. Have you confidence in any vaccine?

    At least you'll take advice from a doctor and not a witch doctor like Seamus

    We had this same conversation many pages back   ;D  but to answer

    I'd guess like most medications when the trials are complete!
    I have already had the first 2.
    As i said previously, i have no problem with any of vaccination programmes that we have here in Ireland and the UK(apart from covid 19). They've saved countless lives and prevented untold misery here.

    Do you feel people were scared into or pressurised or dare i say coerced into getting the C19 vaccines ? And if so do you think that was worth it, for the greater good?

    Lastly, do you agree with the push for u12's to get vaccinated given what we knew in terms of transmission, natural immunity and mortality rates in this group.
         
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Seamus on February 02, 2023, 01:48:05 AM
    Quote from: trailer on February 01, 2023, 12:55:01 PM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 01, 2023, 12:45:52 PM
    The same old nonsense lazy Conspiracy Theorist labeling yet again when the people doing the labeling are the Real Conspiracy Theorists. Then Facebook was mentioned, censors of the truth and part of pushing the narrative. Same posters for years parroting mainstream news, unable and fearful of thinking for themselves. This is why the world is in the mess that it is with the majority of people of the same deluded mindset.

    Chemicals V Nutrition for the human body, it's an easy choice when it comes to healthcare. The Father of Modern Propaganda, Edward Bernays' legacy is alive and well and no greater evidence can be seen than on this board with close to 99% trapped endlessly from beyond the grave by his evil manipulating mind. The day will come when the parrots will whistle a different tune if they get lucky and live long enough.

    You don't understand what chemicals are.

    Who was the Anti Vax, Anti Covid person here on the board who then caught it and nearly died?

    Have you ever heard of chemotheraphy?
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Seamus on February 02, 2023, 01:58:46 AM
    Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 01:19:00 PM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 01, 2023, 01:15:49 PM
    Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 01:00:45 PM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 01, 2023, 12:45:52 PM
    The same old nonsense lazy Conspiracy Theorist labeling yet again when the people doing the labeling are the Real Conspiracy Theorists. Then Facebook was mentioned, censors of the truth and part of pushing the narrative. Same posters for years parroting mainstream news, unable and fearful of thinking for themselves. This is why the world is in the mess that it is with the majority of people of the same deluded mindset.

    Chemicals V Nutrition for the human body, it's an easy choice when it comes to healthcare. The Father of Modern Propaganda, Edward Bernays' legacy is alive and well and no greater evidence can be seen than on this board with close to 99% trapped endlessly from beyond the grave by his evil manipulating mind. The day will come when the parrots will whistle a different tune if they get lucky and live long enough.

    Seamus what's your health like? The odd pint or two? smoke? Eat fresh food, no extra additives in your food, what about the sugars?

    These are the things that will kill you earlier than what you are looking for if you over indulge... In the very few I see healthy (body wise) over 80's there will no doubt be the cognitive decline, enjoy this period because you can avoid all sorts of 'big pharma' stuff all you like, but when the your shit starts coming out when you don't want it to then it'll be these evil medical big pharma people who'll sort that out ;)
    [/quote

    Milltown, running late for work, only read your first line and will answer. Yes, the odd few beers, very rare now, really gone from the pub scene, no top shelf ever. Never smoked. Eat all fresh organic food, even say that it has to be near impossible to avoid preservatives in this day and age. Exercise regularly, take  only the highest rated supplements. In absolute perfect health. Never got COVID and seemingly never will. Not been sick as for as far back as I remember. Will not go near a regular MD.  Alternative all the way. Helping others achieve optimal health, my life's mission. No vaccines since I was a child and never ever will again, even under gun point.

    Why are you taking supplements? If you are healthy and eating well?

    How much do you know about supplements, very little it seems? So eating well, taking supplements, exercising and avoiding medical drugs is a form of witch craft? The Rockefellers would be proud of you.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Seamus on February 02, 2023, 02:28:33 AM
    Quote from: J70 on February 01, 2023, 01:30:19 PM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 01, 2023, 01:02:04 PM
    "And these are all the same people who for years have dismissed real concerns about the likes of second hand smoking or asbestos or air and water pollution etc. The same people who support the Republican Party who back big corporations at every turn and try to screw the little people by abolishing health and safety and consumer protecting regulations as well as inflicting arbitration and barring class action lawsuits to resolve conflicts. Yet now they want us to listen to them? f**k them".

    You are so naive, into labeling yet again. Do you back Big Pharma? Is there any bigger and more profitable Corporations in existence outside the likes of Blackwater, another corp you probably support. Do you support the unelected WEF? Klaus Schwab I bet is one of your heroes along with Gates and Fauci and of course Sleepy Joe. The you try and preach your mindless rhetoric from your little pulpit. You are sound reasonable and solid enough when it comes to the GAA, please keep away from world affairs as it further corrupts the already corrupted.

    No, I don't "back" Big Pharma, or Big Oil, or Big Tech or any of these huge corporations and conglomerates. For better or worse, they're part of and shapers of the capitalist, globalized world we live in and that isn't going to change. I'm all in favour of reducing corporate influence on politics where most politicians of whatever leaning are bought and paid for by special interests, but Citizens United and the hostility of the Republican Party and their Supreme Court to sensible political funding has ended any prospect of that, at least in the US. I'm all in favour of strict regulations that impose standards on food, drugs, water, emissions, worker and consumer safety, pollution, conservation etc. etc and hold corporations accountable to the people. Are you?

    I'm fortunate enough that myself and my wife are able to pay little extra to support local, small businesses, both here in NYC and when upstate or out of state. Unfortunately, not everyone has that luxury. And unless you forgo having a car, a computer, tv, phone etc. etc., you're just as much as supporter of globalization and big corporations as the rest of us.

    You believe in Big Pharma and purchase their products and you do not have to, I don't. Why do you support the Democratic Party? You are against so many things that they stand for. Were you asleep while the FTX scandal was happening?. Sorry, it must be a conspiracy theory, FTX never funded the Democratic Party and at least one Republican member and it wasn't a physop to usher in CBDCs. All members of Congress and the Senate are multi-millionaires including members of the Democratic Party but no, the Democratic members are not capitalists. I have told you before that we have one party in the disguise of two. Both lie through their teeth and answer to the same beat of the drum.

    We have a different meaning for Globalization also. I support independent sovereign nations with their cultures intact. I do not support open borders, what is happening in Ireland is a disgrace, bought politicians the lot of them. Do you support the WEF? Own Nothing and Be Happy?
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 02, 2023, 08:56:31 AM
    Quote from: grounded on February 01, 2023, 11:01:27 PM
    Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 10:02:21 PM
    Quote from: grounded on February 01, 2023, 09:51:55 PM
    Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 08:13:09 PM
    Not taking the flu jab won't make me an anti vaxer will it?

    If you have high blood pressure will you take a tablet?

    In answer to your first question, i'd guess that depends on the reasons you won't take it and more importantly who you ask. I actually hate the term.
            I assume it came into the modern lexicon after the Andrew Wakefield controversy and the untold damage he caused. In the context of Covid 19,  it was used to denigrate not just those people who are genuine anti-vaccination of any type,  but also anybody who believed in tried and tested vaccination programmes( I include myself in that)but had grave misgivings about the C19 Vaccines specifically. 

    In answer to your second question, most definitely if prescribed by my doctor.
           

    So how long into the trials and development of the covid vaccine will you have confidence in it? Not that you'll take by the looks of it. Have you confidence in any vaccine?

    At least you'll take advice from a doctor and not a witch doctor like Seamus

    We had this same conversation many pages back   ;D  but to answer

    I'd guess like most medications when the trials are complete!
    I have already had the first 2.
    As i said previously, i have no problem with any of vaccination programmes that we have here in Ireland and the UK(apart from covid 19). They've saved countless lives and prevented untold misery here.

    Do you feel people were scared into or pressurised or dare i say coerced into getting the C19 vaccines ? And if so do you think that was worth it, for the greater good?

    Lastly, do you agree with the push for u12's to get vaccinated given what we knew in terms of transmission, natural immunity and mortality rates in this group.
         

    We have been giving kids vaccines for many years, trials yes have been done for many years before that but they have proven to save many lives and prevent illness going forward, if the medical experts (not Seamus) believe that they will help to prevent such things I'll go with them before listening to Seamus (the new Karen)

    As for the Vaccine on Covid, well as we know its a new (2 years) type vaccine and evolving, the dangers for this particular virus were to the old and sick and if my child had an illness which if they had caught covid would have had bigger problems then yes, they would have taken it. there was a push but it wasn't a mandatory push as the numbers didn't show the same dangers it did for the older ones.

    We lined up to get the polio vaccine as kids at the time and I wonder was there the same amount of scaremongering going on then? Did parents feel that this was madness like some do now of vaccine, I remember it being a big deal at the time as a kid, I never felt pressured into doing anything, I did it because I'd a father ill with cancer and I was doing his appointments, I was adhering to the advice and I watched the tv with those people clutching for life as they struggled to breathe and die. So it was a no brainer for me
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: lenny on February 02, 2023, 10:31:38 AM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 01, 2023, 01:15:49 PM
    Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 01:00:45 PM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 01, 2023, 12:45:52 PM
    The same old nonsense lazy Conspiracy Theorist labeling yet again when the people doing the labeling are the Real Conspiracy Theorists. Then Facebook was mentioned, censors of the truth and part of pushing the narrative. Same posters for years parroting mainstream news, unable and fearful of thinking for themselves. This is why the world is in the mess that it is with the majority of people of the same deluded mindset.

    Chemicals V Nutrition for the human body, it's an easy choice when it comes to healthcare. The Father of Modern Propaganda, Edward Bernays' legacy is alive and well and no greater evidence can be seen than on this board with close to 99% trapped endlessly from beyond the grave by his evil manipulating mind. The day will come when the parrots will whistle a different tune if they get lucky and live long enough.

    Seamus what's your health like? The odd pint or two? smoke? Eat fresh food, no extra additives in your food, what about the sugars?

    These are the things that will kill you earlier than what you are looking for if you over indulge... In the very few I see healthy (body wise) over 80's there will no doubt be the cognitive decline, enjoy this period because you can avoid all sorts of 'big pharma' stuff all you like, but when the your shit starts coming out when you don't want it to then it'll be these evil medical big pharma people who'll sort that out ;)
    [/quote

    Milltown, running late for work, only read your first line and will answer. Yes, the odd few beers, very rare now, really gone from the pub scene, no top shelf ever. Never smoked. Eat all fresh organic food, even say that it has to be near impossible to avoid preservatives in this day and age. Exercise regularly, take  only the highest rated supplements. In absolute perfect health. Never got COVID and seemingly never will. Not been sick as for as far back as I remember. Will not go near a regular MD.  Alternative all the way. Helping others achieve optimal health, my life's mission. No vaccines since I was a child and never ever will again, even under gun point.

    Lol, so big paharma - bad but big supplement - good. Another sucker who hasn't a clue. Those supplements are the biggest racket out there.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: theskull1 on February 02, 2023, 11:22:29 AM
    Posting this for anyone who's interested and doesn't consider youtuber DR John Campbell as a complete spoofer. Those people shouldn't waste their time watching. I've have linked to the scientific paper (from Italy) he's discussing at the bottom.

    Dr John Campbell - Vitamin D, now conclusive
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5sc7G4s4CY&t=29s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5sc7G4s4CY&t=29s)

    Protective Effect of Vitamin D Supplementation on COVID-19-Related Intensive Care Hospitalization and Mortality: Definitive Evidence from Meta-Analysis and Trial Sequential Analysis
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9864223/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9864223/)

    Reduced risk of death 51%
    Decreased risk of ICU admission 72%

    Take your vitamin D people (along with K2 btw)

    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: trailer on February 02, 2023, 11:32:42 AM
    Honest question Seamus, if you got ill would you take medicine prescribed by a doctor? What about if you were unconscious and unable to give consent, have you instructed family not to allow Doctors to intervene? Genuinely interested in where you draw lines medically.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: grounded on February 02, 2023, 01:46:25 PM
    Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 02, 2023, 08:56:31 AM
    Quote from: grounded on February 01, 2023, 11:01:27 PM
    Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 10:02:21 PM
    Quote from: grounded on February 01, 2023, 09:51:55 PM
    Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 08:13:09 PM
    Not taking the flu jab won't make me an anti vaxer will it?

    If you have high blood pressure will you take a tablet?

    In answer to your first question, i'd guess that depends on the reasons you won't take it and more importantly who you ask. I actually hate the term.
            I assume it came into the modern lexicon after the Andrew Wakefield controversy and the untold damage he caused. In the context of Covid 19,  it was used to denigrate not just those people who are genuine anti-vaccination of any type,  but also anybody who believed in tried and tested vaccination programmes( I include myself in that)but had grave misgivings about the C19 Vaccines specifically. 

    In answer to your second question, most definitely if prescribed by my doctor.
           

    So how long into the trials and development of the covid vaccine will you have confidence in it? Not that you'll take by the looks of it. Have you confidence in any vaccine?

    At least you'll take advice from a doctor and not a witch doctor like Seamus

    We had this same conversation many pages back   ;D  but to answer

    I'd guess like most medications when the trials are complete!
    I have already had the first 2.
    As i said previously, i have no problem with any of vaccination programmes that we have here in Ireland and the UK(apart from covid 19). They've saved countless lives and prevented untold misery here.

    Do you feel people were scared into or pressurised or dare i say coerced into getting the C19 vaccines ? And if so do you think that was worth it, for the greater good?

    Lastly, do you agree with the push for u12's to get vaccinated given what we knew in terms of transmission, natural immunity and mortality rates in this group.
         

    We have been giving kids vaccines for many years, trials yes have been done for many years before that but they have proven to save many lives and prevent illness going forward, if the medical experts (not Seamus) believe that they will help to prevent such things I'll go with them before listening to Seamus (the new Karen)

    As for the Vaccine on Covid, well as we know its a new (2 years) type vaccine and evolving, the dangers for this particular virus were to the old and sick and if my child had an illness which if they had caught covid would have had bigger problems then yes, they would have taken it. there was a push but it wasn't a mandatory push as the numbers didn't show the same dangers it did for the older ones.

    We lined up to get the polio vaccine as kids at the time and I wonder was there the same amount of scaremongering going on then? Did parents feel that this was madness like some do now of vaccine, I remember it being a big deal at the time as a kid, I never felt pressured into doing anything, I did it because I'd a father ill with cancer and I was doing his appointments, I was adhering to the advice and I watched the tv with those people clutching for life as they struggled to breathe and die. So it was a no brainer for me

    There is a vast spectrum of opinion on here(like life) ranging from anti all vaccines through to c19 vaccine zealots.
                I actually don't think there is a very much at all between our two positions( none at all in fact if we are talking about longstanding vaccination programmes).
         I appreciate you weren't in favour of mandates but I do think some people were most definitely pressurised into taking the vaccine. I mean come on, there were work mandates in nursing homes and healthcare settings in UK and Ireland. Not forgetting entire population mandates in some countries. We were bombarded on the airwaves night and day with adverts asking us to protect the vulnerable by getting the vaccines. Not to mention the covid passport. There was an unprecedented campaign designed to ridicule any dissent or questionnimg from academics or medics as regards the vaccine rollout. Most were was swiftly swatted aside and they were labelled antiscience/antivaxxers or rogue operator( btw some were).
        Nigh on 50% on this board favoured an Austrian type c19 vaccine mandate in Ireland. Even now after all the evidence and studies in relation to transmission, natural immunity and vaccine effectiveness  i'd say the same number would vote for mandates on a retrospective vote.
        The argument that we've been using vaccines for decades doesnt wash either. Its akin to saying we have been using heart medications for years when a new class of cardiac drug is developed.
        There are very good reasons for the long development times and approvals of new medications as past events  have shown. For me the trials were not fully completed before these mrna medications/vaccines were released onto the market. Thats an argument that we could go back and forth on for ever. You say trust the scientists and physicians and i'll shout the same right back at you.
       
       
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: armaghniac on February 02, 2023, 02:06:12 PM
    These vaccines were tested, but no time was wasted in doing so. Normally, there is considerable faffing around with trials and approvals and this did not happen again. You can't have a situation where millions are allowed die of a new virus because of unnecessary delay.
    As for mandates, there are critical mass effects with vaccines, your behaviour affects other people. This is no different from driving or emitting carbon etc, what you do is not only a matter for you.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: trueblue1234 on February 02, 2023, 02:29:32 PM
    There are reasons why the vaccine moved so quickly. It doesn't mean anything underhand happened. (Cut and pasted).

    The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were created with a method that has been in development for years, so the companies could start the vaccine development process early in the pandemic.

    China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly, so scientists could start working on vaccines.
    The vaccine developers didn't skip any testing steps, but conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule to gather data faster.

    Vaccine projects had plenty of resources, as governments invested in research and/or paid for vaccines in advance.

    Some types of COVID-19 vaccines were created using messenger RNA (mRNA), which allows a faster approach than the traditional way that vaccines are made.

    Social media helped companies find and engage study volunteers, and many were willing to help with COVID-19 vaccine research.

    Because COVID-19 is so contagious and widespread, it did not take long to see if the vaccine worked for the study volunteers who were vaccinated.

    Companies began making vaccines early in the process — even before FDA authorization — so some supplies were ready when authorization occurred.

    https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: J70 on February 02, 2023, 02:37:55 PM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 02, 2023, 02:28:33 AM
    Quote from: J70 on February 01, 2023, 01:30:19 PM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 01, 2023, 01:02:04 PM
    "And these are all the same people who for years have dismissed real concerns about the likes of second hand smoking or asbestos or air and water pollution etc. The same people who support the Republican Party who back big corporations at every turn and try to screw the little people by abolishing health and safety and consumer protecting regulations as well as inflicting arbitration and barring class action lawsuits to resolve conflicts. Yet now they want us to listen to them? f**k them".

    You are so naive, into labeling yet again. Do you back Big Pharma? Is there any bigger and more profitable Corporations in existence outside the likes of Blackwater, another corp you probably support. Do you support the unelected WEF? Klaus Schwab I bet is one of your heroes along with Gates and Fauci and of course Sleepy Joe. The you try and preach your mindless rhetoric from your little pulpit. You are sound reasonable and solid enough when it comes to the GAA, please keep away from world affairs as it further corrupts the already corrupted.

    No, I don't "back" Big Pharma, or Big Oil, or Big Tech or any of these huge corporations and conglomerates. For better or worse, they're part of and shapers of the capitalist, globalized world we live in and that isn't going to change. I'm all in favour of reducing corporate influence on politics where most politicians of whatever leaning are bought and paid for by special interests, but Citizens United and the hostility of the Republican Party and their Supreme Court to sensible political funding has ended any prospect of that, at least in the US. I'm all in favour of strict regulations that impose standards on food, drugs, water, emissions, worker and consumer safety, pollution, conservation etc. etc and hold corporations accountable to the people. Are you?

    I'm fortunate enough that myself and my wife are able to pay little extra to support local, small businesses, both here in NYC and when upstate or out of state. Unfortunately, not everyone has that luxury. And unless you forgo having a car, a computer, tv, phone etc. etc., you're just as much as supporter of globalization and big corporations as the rest of us.

    You believe in Big Pharma and purchase their products and you do not have to, I don't. Why do you support the Democratic Party? You are against so many things that they stand for. Were you asleep while the FTX scandal was happening?. Sorry, it must be a conspiracy theory, FTX never funded the Democratic Party and at least one Republican member and it wasn't a physop to usher in CBDCs. All members of Congress and the Senate are multi-millionaires including members of the Democratic Party but no, the Democratic members are not capitalists. I have told you before that we have one party in the disguise of two. Both lie through their teeth and answer to the same beat of the drum.

    We have a different meaning for Globalization also. I support independent sovereign nations with their cultures intact. I do not support open borders, what is happening in Ireland is a disgrace, bought politicians the lot of them. Do you support the WEF? Own Nothing and Be Happy?

    Sorry Seamus, as I'm a complete layperson when it comes to medicine, I'll defer to the medical professionals. Those include a sibling and their spouse. I'm sure to you they're automatically just cogs in the corrupt pharma-medical complex, but whatever floats your boat.

    On the rest, yeah I'm sure from your perspective on whatever extreme edge of the political spectrum you're on, the Dems and the GOP are near identical, but most people lie on a much narrower band and so the interparty differences, such as those on the issues I outlined, are very important (although I never said the Dems weren't capitalists or weren't corrupt or weren't playing in the money trough designed by Citizens United). But this topic belongs on the US Politics thread which has pretty much been shut down.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Seamus on February 05, 2023, 04:20:55 AM
    Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2023, 11:32:42 AM
    Honest question Seamus, if you got ill would you take medicine prescribed by a doctor? What about if you were unconscious and unable to give consent, have you instructed family not to allow Doctors to intervene? Genuinely interested in where you draw lines medically.

    I don't take prescription drugs nor do I take over the counter drugs so why should I go to a doctor for a prescription? There would only be very few exceptions. I do know plenty about Lyme disease and Babesia, both very familiar, Babesia being worse. Then intravenous antibiotics is necessary in an immediate life threatening situation. Sleeping tablets are almost a must due to one of the many side effects of the antibiotics.  Red blood cell could become 15% affected within days of symptoms in the case of Babesia. Pain killers of course has its uses.

    I have no fear of cancer. If I ever get cancer, no chemo or radiation for me thank you very much. I have witnessed some terrible deaths by friends going down that route. The patient in most cases dies of the cure not the cancer. Cancer is a multi billion dollar industry, Big Pharma have no interest in the cure and there is a cure, not the Big Pharma way and you will nor find out by turning on the tv either. The cure comes in the form of Functional and Integrative Medicine. I have paid for patients, not only of cancer, to follow this path and will do so well into the future, it is one of my life's missions.

    Personally I'm a firm believer in "an ounce of prevention is better that a pound of cure". Hospitals and doctor offices would be closing down by the minute if everybody followed that path, they need sick people to survive. Medical school do not teach nutrition, maybe 15 hours in total if that at all. The likes of Vitamin C, D3/K2, Turmeric/Curcumin etc is a foreign language to them. No wonder we have a world full of ill people with most over 40 on some form of prescription drug on a daily basis along with being overweight. They all have one thing in common, they "believe the science".

    Unconscious from what? What is wrong with being placed on life support in the case of a car accident for instance? We are not talking about illness here, this is emergency care, totally different subjects. You will need to give me an example of exactly what you are talking about.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Seamus on February 05, 2023, 04:31:10 AM
    Quote from: J70 on February 02, 2023, 02:37:55 PM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 02, 2023, 02:28:33 AM
    Quote from: J70 on February 01, 2023, 01:30:19 PM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 01, 2023, 01:02:04 PM
    "And these are all the same people who for years have dismissed real concerns about the likes of second hand smoking or asbestos or air and water pollution etc. The same people who support the Republican Party who back big corporations at every turn and try to screw the little people by abolishing health and safety and consumer protecting regulations as well as inflicting arbitration and barring class action lawsuits to resolve conflicts. Yet now they want us to listen to them? f**k them".

    You are so naive, into labeling yet again. Do you back Big Pharma? Is there any bigger and more profitable Corporations in existence outside the likes of Blackwater, another corp you probably support. Do you support the unelected WEF? Klaus Schwab I bet is one of your heroes along with Gates and Fauci and of course Sleepy Joe. The you try and preach your mindless rhetoric from your little pulpit. You are sound reasonable and solid enough when it comes to the GAA, please keep away from world affairs as it further corrupts the already corrupted.

    No, I don't "back" Big Pharma, or Big Oil, or Big Tech or any of these huge corporations and conglomerates. For better or worse, they're part of and shapers of the capitalist, globalized world we live in and that isn't going to change. I'm all in favour of reducing corporate influence on politics where most politicians of whatever leaning are bought and paid for by special interests, but Citizens United and the hostility of the Republican Party and their Supreme Court to sensible political funding has ended any prospect of that, at least in the US. I'm all in favour of strict regulations that impose standards on food, drugs, water, emissions, worker and consumer safety, pollution, conservation etc. etc and hold corporations accountable to the people. Are you?

    I'm fortunate enough that myself and my wife are able to pay little extra to support local, small businesses, both here in NYC and when upstate or out of state. Unfortunately, not everyone has that luxury. And unless you forgo having a car, a computer, tv, phone etc. etc., you're just as much as supporter of globalization and big corporations as the rest of us.

    You believe in Big Pharma and purchase their products and you do not have to, I don't. Why do you support the Democratic Party? You are against so many things that they stand for. Were you asleep while the FTX scandal was happening?. Sorry, it must be a conspiracy theory, FTX never funded the Democratic Party and at least one Republican member and it wasn't a physop to usher in CBDCs. All members of Congress and the Senate are multi-millionaires including members of the Democratic Party but no, the Democratic members are not capitalists. I have told you before that we have one party in the disguise of two. Both lie through their teeth and answer to the same beat of the drum.

    We have a different meaning for Globalization also. I support independent sovereign nations with their cultures intact. I do not support open borders, what is happening in Ireland is a disgrace, bought politicians the lot of them. Do you support the WEF? Own Nothing and Be Happy?

    Sorry Seamus, as I'm a complete layperson when it comes to medicine, I'll defer to the medical professionals. Those include a sibling and their spouse. I'm sure to you they're automatically just cogs in the corrupt pharma-medical complex, but whatever floats your boat.

    On the rest, yeah I'm sure from your perspective on whatever extreme edge of the political spectrum you're on, the Dems and the GOP are near identical, but most people lie on a much narrower band and so the interparty differences, such as those on the issues I outlined, are very important (although I never said the Dems weren't capitalists or weren't corrupt or weren't playing in the money trough designed by Citizens United). But this topic belongs on the US Politics thread which has pretty much been shut down.

    Fair enough, I do agree with a lot of what you say but the solutions are not found with either party. Their main objective is to divide and conquer and look after their own interests not that of the people. Take Ireland for instance, FF and FG are now bosom buddies after almost a century dividing the people. I agree, this is the wrong place but in the last three years especially, healthcare has become very politicized.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2023, 09:19:17 AM
    You'll be telling us using glasses is a big pharma con and if you'd only exercise your eyes more and eat more carrots you won't need them!!
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Seamus on February 05, 2023, 03:48:27 PM
    Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2023, 09:19:17 AM
    You'll be telling us using glasses is a big pharma con and if you'd only exercise your eyes more and eat more carrots you won't need them!!

    You are getting real silly now. Indoctrination must be an awful thing, you are unable to see the wood from the trees. I got Radial Keratotomy done, one of the best decisions of my life when all friends and associates advised me not to. Too dangerous they said. Not surprisingly they all had good eyesight, lack of understanding played a part, also they had no idea what it's like to have -11 eye sight.  Being short sighted or long sighted is not an illness nor a vitamin or mineral deficiency..
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Puckoon on February 06, 2023, 10:57:10 PM
    Anyone who subscribes to the following notions is a crackpot and shouldn't be trusted with taking out the bins on a Monday, never mind advising people.

    There is a cure for cancer, people are just sitting on it locked away in some vault that says Amgen/Pfizer/Lilly on it
    If we all eat our vitamins and tumeric, there will be no sickness or ill health
    Medical Schools and Physicians do not learn or preach prevention being better than the cure.

    We have a world full of obese people not because of medicine or medical practices - but because of the globalization of the food industry, sugar industry, declining standards of what we are putting into our body from a dietary perspective and a decline of physical labor jobs.

    Having spent 20 years in the life sciences and medical industries as a student, professional, and observer I find it personally distasteful at the broad stroke brush "big pharma" when discussing the industry. There are large pharmaceutical companies, yes. There have been disgusting abuses of power (Purdue and the opioids a shining example). However there are armies of small pharma and biotechs and daily I work with people who drive to their jobs thinking about patients, rare diseases, common diseases and how to improve the lives of patients across a spectrum of conditions that no amount of tumeric in the world will erase. Sickle Cell Anemia for example, Alzheimer's, Epilepsy. Endless efforts going into finding safe, effective therapeutics for the betterment of humanity.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Puckoon on February 06, 2023, 11:16:56 PM
    Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 02, 2023, 02:29:32 PM
    There are reasons why the vaccine moved so quickly. It doesn't mean anything underhand happened. (Cut and pasted).

    The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were created with a method that has been in development for years, so the companies could start the vaccine development process early in the pandemic.

    China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly, so scientists could start working on vaccines.
    The vaccine developers didn't skip any testing steps, but conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule to gather data faster.

    Vaccine projects had plenty of resources, as governments invested in research and/or paid for vaccines in advance.

    Some types of COVID-19 vaccines were created using messenger RNA (mRNA), which allows a faster approach than the traditional way that vaccines are made.

    Social media helped companies find and engage study volunteers, and many were willing to help with COVID-19 vaccine research.

    Because COVID-19 is so contagious and widespread, it did not take long to see if the vaccine worked for the study volunteers who were vaccinated.

    Companies began making vaccines early in the process — even before FDA authorization — so some supplies were ready when authorization occurred.

    https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact

    There is a lot of truth here, and an uncomfortable truth for the industry is that the COVID pandemic and the swift approval of the vaccine shone a light on areas of waste and dead space within the pharmaceutical industry. It exists primarily to underscore the Safety Assessment of pharmaceuticals - even if we rehash the same development pathway for drugs of very similar classes. It happens, because of liability.

    Over time we have learned so much about almost all drug modalities. So much so that we could shorten the development time (and money) for a drug (Drug B) that is similar to an already approved product (Drug A) that you see on the TV. Upside, quicker development, drug gets to patient faster, and the drug development is cheaper. Downside is that we are relying on predictive modeling behaviour and assuming that what we understand about Drug A applies unilaterally and without exception to Drug B. Considering that even fully developed drugs that have undergone the full rigorous non clinical and clinical safety testing have thrown up some nasty surprises for patients post commercialization, it is a risk to assume drug similarities and therefore extrapolate data from one drug to another (no matter how similar in structure and mechanism). 

    COVID gave the green light for accepting what we know about a modality (mRNA) and taking that relatively calculated risk to extrapolate that data across the vaccinations and expedite the approval process. In the absence of a global pandemic this would (in my opinion) never have happened.

    Another example of FDA "fast tracking" is for a disease so serious that the patient will die in any case, therefore there is nothing to lose when giving them a novel, not yet approved therapy in an attempt to save their life. FDA compassionate use is an additional expedited protocol
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Seamus on February 07, 2023, 02:16:54 AM
    Quote from: Puckoon on February 06, 2023, 10:57:10 PM
    Anyone who subscribes to the following notions is a crackpot and shouldn't be trusted with taking out the bins on a Monday, never mind advising people.

    There is a cure for cancer, people are just sitting on it locked away in some vault that says Amgen/Pfizer/Lilly on it
    If we all eat our vitamins and tumeric, there will be no sickness or ill health
    Medical Schools and Physicians do not learn or preach prevention being better than the cure.

    We have a world full of obese people not because of medicine or medical practices - but because of the globalization of the food industry, sugar industry, declining standards of what we are putting into our body from a dietary perspective and a decline of physical labor jobs.

    Having spent 20 years in the life sciences and medical industries as a student, professional, and observer I find it personally distasteful at the broad stroke brush "big pharma" when discussing the industry. There are large pharmaceutical companies, yes. There have been disgusting abuses of power (Purdue and the opioids a shining example). However there are armies of small pharma and biotechs and daily I work with people who drive to their jobs thinking about patients, rare diseases, common diseases and how to improve the lives of patients across a spectrum of conditions that no amount of tumeric in the world will erase. Sickle Cell Anemia for example, Alzheimer's, Epilepsy. Endless efforts going into finding safe, effective therapeutics for the betterment of humanity.

    Keep taking your drugs, you'll be grand. I must go "eat" some vitamins today. What is tumeric, never heard of it? It does explain a lot with regards to medical school though.

    Nice to see that you are into prevention, my indoctrinated friend. You mentioned Alzheimer Disease. Please outline in detail your strategy for prevention. Feel free to add prevention methods for other diseases. Is prevention also part of your job capacity or is it just the "cure" you are focused on? True, physicians at times preach prevention (very limited) while writing a prescription, how wonderful. I have yet to hear of healthy people (or sick people) filling up a MD's waiting room to get advice on prevention. When it comes to prevention, I'm all ears, one can never learn enough.

    Does "improve patients lives" only involve medical drugs or does the little biotech company you work for also advise on nutrition and exercise? if so explain and to what extent. Does the medical drugs you are researching have side effects? if so what percentage and please list some of those side effects. Are other drugs ever needed to "cure" those side effects?

    Thanks for filling me in on what leads to obesity, a bad diet and lack of exercise, what a shocker, lol. True, no amount of vitamins or "tumeric" will overcome that.  Maybe I should have explained a little better. An unhealthy lifestyle inevitably leads to illness, high blood pressure, diabetes, etc. Most go for the quick "fix" because they "trust the science" or are too lazy to do the hard grind. So begins the vicious circle of prescription drugs for life, in most cases never getting to the route cause of the problem or problems thus leading to other illnesses.

    And yes, there is a cure for cancer and other "incurable diseases" which Big and Little Pharma have no interest in pursuing for billions if not trillions of reasons. Plenty funds also needed to pay those large fines and lobbyists, usually ex government employees. The cure is not locked away in some vault that says Amgen Horizon Therapeutics, Pfizer or Eli Lilly either.  It comes in the form of Functional and Integrative Medicine.  Rockefeller and Carnegie have plenty to answer for.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Seamus on February 07, 2023, 02:44:08 AM
    Quote from: Puckoon on February 06, 2023, 11:16:56 PM
    Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 02, 2023, 02:29:32 PM
    There are reasons why the vaccine moved so quickly. It doesn't mean anything underhand happened. (Cut and pasted).

    The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were created with a method that has been in development for years, so the companies could start the vaccine development process early in the pandemic.

    China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly, so scientists could start working on vaccines.
    The vaccine developers didn't skip any testing steps, but conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule to gather data faster.

    Vaccine projects had plenty of resources, as governments invested in research and/or paid for vaccines in advance.

    Some types of COVID-19 vaccines were created using messenger RNA (mRNA), which allows a faster approach than the traditional way that vaccines are made.

    Social media helped companies find and engage study volunteers, and many were willing to help with COVID-19 vaccine research.

    Because COVID-19 is so contagious and widespread, it did not take long to see if the vaccine worked for the study volunteers who were vaccinated.

    Companies began making vaccines early in the process — even before FDA authorization — so some supplies were ready when authorization occurred.

    https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact

    There is a lot of truth here, and an uncomfortable truth for the industry is that the COVID pandemic and the swift approval of the vaccine shone a light on areas of waste and dead space within the pharmaceutical industry. It exists primarily to underscore the Safety Assessment of pharmaceuticals - even if we rehash the same development pathway for drugs of very similar classes. It happens, because of liability.

    Over time we have learned so much about almost all drug modalities. So much so that we could shorten the development time (and money) for a drug (Drug B) that is similar to an already approved product (Drug A) that you see on the TV. Upside, quicker development, drug gets to patient faster, and the drug development is cheaper. Downside is that we are relying on predictive modeling behaviour and assuming that what we understand about Drug A applies unilaterally and without exception to Drug B. Considering that even fully developed drugs that have undergone the full rigorous non clinical and clinical safety testing have thrown up some nasty surprises for patients post commercialization, it is a risk to assume drug similarities and therefore extrapolate data from one drug to another (no matter how similar in structure and mechanism). 

    COVID gave the green light for accepting what we know about a modality (mRNA) and taking that relatively calculated risk to extrapolate that data across the vaccinations and expedite the approval process. In the absence of a global pandemic this would (in my opinion) never have happened.

    Another example of FDA "fast tracking" is for a disease so serious that the patient will die in any case, therefore there is nothing to lose when giving them a novel, not yet approved therapy in an attempt to save their life. FDA compassionate use is an additional expedited protocol

    While you both are lumped together here, please lead me to the document where "China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly".  I have yet to see such a thing. I would be forever grateful if one or both of you produced it. Please make sure the document followed the proper guidelines for isolation before submitting. Didn't Johns Hopkins partner with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to hosted Event 201 on October 18, 2019 in NY and another similar high-level pandemic exercise event recently?  So if John Hopkins says such a document exists without showing any evidence, it must be true. Still I would like to see it.

    A compassionate FDA, I've heard it all now.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Puckoon on February 07, 2023, 03:15:42 AM
    QuoteWhat is tumeric, never heard of it?

    Thanks for catching the spelling error.

    QuoteYou mentioned Alzheimer Disease. Please outline in detail your strategy for prevention. Feel free to add prevention methods for other diseases. Is prevention also part of your job capacity or is it just the "cure" you are focused on?
    Not quite sure what you're asking here (it's hard to pull the thread of your pointed questions from the overall buffoonery you are espousing. I have no professional basis for addressing prevention of any disease. I work within the life sciences industry supporting hundreds of companies focused on curing diseases. My lifestyle choices are my own.

    QuoteDoes "improve patients lives" only involve medical drugs or does the little biotech company you work for also advise on nutrition and exercise? if so explain and to what extent.
    Again, I work within the industry not for any biotech company - touching many different sizes of pharma and biotech all focused on diseases and med device developments and moving advancements through the necessary testing phases to the commercial market. A process that takes about 8-10 years.  A process that has a wide mouth at the top end of the funnel and filters out the poorer compounds on the basis of efficacy, selectiveness, and a safety profile. The commonality among these companies is that they are all focused on increased quality of life for patients.

    QuoteDoes the medical drugs you are researching have side effects? if so what percentage and please list some of those side effects. Are other drugs ever needed to "cure" those side effects?
    I'll not make a deal about your own typo here, but every drug going back to Asprin have side effect potential. Everything you put in your body, including Vitamin C, D, and Turmeric have side effect potential. In Toxicology it is the dose that makes the poison, not necessarily the compound. This holds true for your supplements as well.

    QuoteAn unhealthy lifestyle inevitably leads to illness, high blood pressure, diabetes, etc. Most go for the quick "fix" because they "trust the science" or are too lazy to do the hard grind.
    It's OK to admit that this is your personally held belief, and that you do not have an exhaustive body of evidence to stand behind this broad bush stroke.

    Quotend yes, there is a cure for cancer and other "incurable diseases" which Big and Little Pharma have no interest in pursuing
    Which of the hundreds of diseases that make up the overall term "Cancer" are you referring to? Cancer is a catch all term of a number of sub cancers, many of them treatable and curable now THANKS to advancements in medicine.

    Pure nonsense on the whole to suggest that a cure for "Cancer" has been found and the fame and fortune who await the individuals who rid the human race of such a brutal scourge is being suppressed. That is possibly the most ludicrous of all your suggestions. There are many drugs that completely wipe out cancerous cells in the human body. The challenge is that they may well wipe out everything else and they are often incredibly potent and dangerous when they are not as selective on cancer cells and specific tissues as intended. There are some wonderful new therapies coming out every year in immunology and the pharmaceutical industry is gaining ground on specific cancers every year.

    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Puckoon on February 07, 2023, 03:22:16 AM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 07, 2023, 02:44:08 AM
    Quote from: Puckoon on February 06, 2023, 11:16:56 PM
    Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 02, 2023, 02:29:32 PM
    There are reasons why the vaccine moved so quickly. It doesn't mean anything underhand happened. (Cut and pasted).

    The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were created with a method that has been in development for years, so the companies could start the vaccine development process early in the pandemic.

    China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly, so scientists could start working on vaccines.
    The vaccine developers didn't skip any testing steps, but conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule to gather data faster.

    Vaccine projects had plenty of resources, as governments invested in research and/or paid for vaccines in advance.

    Some types of COVID-19 vaccines were created using messenger RNA (mRNA), which allows a faster approach than the traditional way that vaccines are made.

    Social media helped companies find and engage study volunteers, and many were willing to help with COVID-19 vaccine research.

    Because COVID-19 is so contagious and widespread, it did not take long to see if the vaccine worked for the study volunteers who were vaccinated.

    Companies began making vaccines early in the process — even before FDA authorization — so some supplies were ready when authorization occurred.

    https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact

    There is a lot of truth here, and an uncomfortable truth for the industry is that the COVID pandemic and the swift approval of the vaccine shone a light on areas of waste and dead space within the pharmaceutical industry. It exists primarily to underscore the Safety Assessment of pharmaceuticals - even if we rehash the same development pathway for drugs of very similar classes. It happens, because of liability.

    Over time we have learned so much about almost all drug modalities. So much so that we could shorten the development time (and money) for a drug (Drug B) that is similar to an already approved product (Drug A) that you see on the TV. Upside, quicker development, drug gets to patient faster, and the drug development is cheaper. Downside is that we are relying on predictive modeling behaviour and assuming that what we understand about Drug A applies unilaterally and without exception to Drug B. Considering that even fully developed drugs that have undergone the full rigorous non clinical and clinical safety testing have thrown up some nasty surprises for patients post commercialization, it is a risk to assume drug similarities and therefore extrapolate data from one drug to another (no matter how similar in structure and mechanism). 

    COVID gave the green light for accepting what we know about a modality (mRNA) and taking that relatively calculated risk to extrapolate that data across the vaccinations and expedite the approval process. In the absence of a global pandemic this would (in my opinion) never have happened.

    Another example of FDA "fast tracking" is for a disease so serious that the patient will die in any case, therefore there is nothing to lose when giving them a novel, not yet approved therapy in an attempt to save their life. FDA compassionate use is an additional expedited protocol

    While you both are lumped together here, please lead me to the document where "China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly".  I have yet to see such a thing. I would be forever grateful if one or both of you produced it. Please make sure the document followed the proper guidelines for isolation before submitting. Didn't Johns Hopkins partner with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to hosted Event 201 on October 18, 2019 in NY and another similar high-level pandemic exercise event recently?  So if John Hopkins says such a document exists without showing any evidence, it must be true. Still I would like to see it.

    A compassionate FDA, I've heard it all now.

    Umm, What? I am not discussing the origin or spread of the virus.

    You have some strong space cadet vibes. Check your dosages.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Seamus on February 07, 2023, 06:48:19 AM

    QuoteThanks for catching the spelling error.

    It was not a spelling error per se, it's a pronunciation error which led to the spelling error. It shows the lack of knowledge of Turmeric and it's powerful benefits thus my reference to medical school. I have no problem with spelling errors, we all make them. your lack of knowledge is the only issue here.


    QuoteNot quite sure what you're asking here (it's hard to pull the thread of your pointed questions from the overall buffoonery you are espousing. I have no professional basis for addressing prevention of any disease. I work within the life sciences industry supporting hundreds of companies focused on curing diseases. My lifestyle choices are my own.

    You mentioned "Anyone who subscribes to the following notions is a crackpot and shouldn't be trusted with taking out the bins on a Monday, never mind advising people." "Medical Schools and Physicians do not learn or preach prevention being better than the cure".

    I presume you went to some form of medical school as you are in that field. I was interested to know what you learned as regards prevention and indeed nutrition after reading your comment.  Correct me if I'm wrong, maybe you licked your "knowledge" off the floor.  If you did not go to medical school how do you know prevention is taught there?  My niece, a qualified MD, knows next to zero about nutrition, brilliant when discussing medical drugs though. Obviously you are in the same boat. You do not have to stick to your rigid professional stance unless you are incapable of doing so.


    QuoteAgain, I work within the industry not for any biotech company - touching many different sizes of pharma and biotech all focused on diseases and med device developments and moving advancements through the necessary testing phases to the commercial market. A process that takes about 8-10 years.  A process that has a wide mouth at the top end of the funnel and filters out the poorer compounds on the basis of efficacy, selectiveness, and a safety profile. The commonality among these companies is that they are all focused on increased quality of life for patients.

    Again, you are totally omitting what the human body is craving for, proper nutrition. Your focus is on non synergistic drugs whether you realize it or not, which rarely if ever treats the cause, only the symptoms, leading to further drugs down the line.


    QuoteI'll not make a deal about your own typo here, but every drug going back to Asprin have side effect potential. Everything you put in your body, including Vitamin C, D, and Turmeric have side effect potential. In Toxicology it is the dose that makes the poison, not necessarily the compound. This holds true for your supplements as well.

    Please list the side effects of Vitamin C, D and Turmeric. Are we talking about a truck load here at once or what? With every drug, even at the recommended dosage, there is usually a side effect.  Your knowledge of supplements is as expected.


    QuoteIt's OK to admit that this is your personally held belief, and that you do not have an exhaustive body of evidence to stand behind this broad bush stroke.

    Are you trying to tell me that an unhealthy lifestyle does not inevitably leads to illness, high blood pressure, diabetes, etc? Do you also not agree that most people when getting ill will turn to their MD for help instead of going the natural route? The convenience of a pill, the easy way out, you figure this is not one of the deciding factors? Do you realize that it takes a massive amount of will power for people to change their unhealthy ways. You are gone way too far down the rabbit hole.


    QuoteWhich of the hundreds of diseases that make up the overall term "Cancer" are you referring to? Cancer is a catch all term of a number of sub cancers, many of them treatable and curable now THANKS to advancements in medicine.

    Pancreatic Cancer is the most difficult of all to cure, but it can happen meaning all cancers can be cured. Length of cancer is also an issue. Whether the patient first went through chemo and radiation is a major factor, their chances of survival is greatly reduced. A peaceful, non suffering ending may be the best to hope for. 

    Great, cure stage 1 cancers and possibly some Stage 2. Those who survive will almost certainly be on several medications for the rest of their lives. Treatment usually runs at of cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars.  Zero quality of live. For each person who doesn't make it, 1M seems to be the average price tag and that could only be for one year of cancer treatment, here in the US anyway. Functional and Integrative Medicine on the other usually hand can run less than 10k, sometimes way less, with a far greater chance of survival. There are a number of factors that must align, please don't have me explain it to you, you have wasted enough of my time. Look up Functional Medicine, you will get the answers and possibly (extremely doubtful) open your rigid mind.

    QuotePure nonsense on the whole to suggest that a cure for "Cancer" has been found and the fame and fortune who await the individuals who rid the human race of such a brutal scourge is being suppressed. That is possibly the most ludicrous of all your suggestions. There are many drugs that completely wipe out cancerous cells in the human body. The challenge is that they may well wipe out everything else and they are often incredibly potent and dangerous when they are not as selective on cancer cells and specific tissues as intended. There are some wonderful new therapies coming out every year in immunology and the pharmaceutical industry is gaining ground on specific cancers every year.

    The sentence in bold: You said a mouthful there, in other words patients die from the "cure" as I have already mentioned and a terrible death at that. This is well know within the industry, why keep doing it? Not acceptable.

    I'll give you one person to look up, Max Gerson. I can give you many more but why bother. Forget about going to Wikipedia, a punch of lies but I do expect you to settle for it. The Gerson Institute, founded by his daughter, curing patients of several diseases since 1978. There are even better locations in different parts of the world.

    A new promising drug, a new trial, every cancer patient hears that one. Will it ever end? Since Nixon declared the war on cancer in 1971,  it has still remained right behind heart disease as the second cause of death with no end in sight.


    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Seamus on February 07, 2023, 06:53:54 AM
    Quote from: Puckoon on February 07, 2023, 03:22:16 AM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 07, 2023, 02:44:08 AM
    Quote from: Puckoon on February 06, 2023, 11:16:56 PM
    Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 02, 2023, 02:29:32 PM
    There are reasons why the vaccine moved so quickly. It doesn't mean anything underhand happened. (Cut and pasted).

    The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were created with a method that has been in development for years, so the companies could start the vaccine development process early in the pandemic.

    China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly, so scientists could start working on vaccines.
    The vaccine developers didn't skip any testing steps, but conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule to gather data faster.

    Vaccine projects had plenty of resources, as governments invested in research and/or paid for vaccines in advance.

    Some types of COVID-19 vaccines were created using messenger RNA (mRNA), which allows a faster approach than the traditional way that vaccines are made.

    Social media helped companies find and engage study volunteers, and many were willing to help with COVID-19 vaccine research.

    Because COVID-19 is so contagious and widespread, it did not take long to see if the vaccine worked for the study volunteers who were vaccinated.

    Companies began making vaccines early in the process — even before FDA authorization — so some supplies were ready when authorization occurred.

    https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact

    There is a lot of truth here, and an uncomfortable truth for the industry is that the COVID pandemic and the swift approval of the vaccine shone a light on areas of waste and dead space within the pharmaceutical industry. It exists primarily to underscore the Safety Assessment of pharmaceuticals - even if we rehash the same development pathway for drugs of very similar classes. It happens, because of liability.

    Over time we have learned so much about almost all drug modalities. So much so that we could shorten the development time (and money) for a drug (Drug B) that is similar to an already approved product (Drug A) that you see on the TV. Upside, quicker development, drug gets to patient faster, and the drug development is cheaper. Downside is that we are relying on predictive modeling behaviour and assuming that what we understand about Drug A applies unilaterally and without exception to Drug B. Considering that even fully developed drugs that have undergone the full rigorous non clinical and clinical safety testing have thrown up some nasty surprises for patients post commercialization, it is a risk to assume drug similarities and therefore extrapolate data from one drug to another (no matter how similar in structure and mechanism). 

    COVID gave the green light for accepting what we know about a modality (mRNA) and taking that relatively calculated risk to extrapolate that data across the vaccinations and expedite the approval process. In the absence of a global pandemic this would (in my opinion) never have happened.

    Another example of FDA "fast tracking" is for a disease so serious that the patient will die in any case, therefore there is nothing to lose when giving them a novel, not yet approved therapy in an attempt to save their life. FDA compassionate use is an additional expedited protocol

    While you both are lumped together here, please lead me to the document where "China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly".  I have yet to see such a thing. I would be forever grateful if one or both of you produced it. Please make sure the document followed the proper guidelines for isolation before submitting. Didn't Johns Hopkins partner with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to hosted Event 201 on October 18, 2019 in NY and another similar high-level pandemic exercise event recently?  So if John Hopkins says such a document exists without showing any evidence, it must be true. Still I would like to see it.

    A compassionate FDA, I've heard it all now.

    Umm, What? I am not discussing the origin or spread of the virus.

    You have some strong space cadet vibes. Check your dosages.

    Well I'm bringing it into the conversation. Unable to answer, not surprising. Then attack. "Check your dosages", said by a true drug pusher.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2023, 07:37:19 AM
    Jesus Seamus good diet and exercise? And of course turmeric! f**k me!!

    Any balloon knows good exercise good diet will prevent illness or other older aged conditions you'd have to be a complete eejit to need to ask a doctor about prevention methods.

    If you don't then you truly are fucked.

    The stress will kill you quicker worrying about all the conspiracies theories you have locked in your head..
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: trailer on February 07, 2023, 08:38:40 AM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 05, 2023, 04:20:55 AM
    Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2023, 11:32:42 AM
    Honest question Seamus, if you got ill would you take medicine prescribed by a doctor? What about if you were unconscious and unable to give consent, have you instructed family not to allow Doctors to intervene? Genuinely interested in where you draw lines medically.

    I don't take prescription drugs nor do I take over the counter drugs so why should I go to a doctor for a prescription? There would only be very few exceptions. I do know plenty about Lyme disease and Babesia, both very familiar, Babesia being worse. Then intravenous antibiotics is necessary in an immediate life threatening situation. Sleeping tablets are almost a must due to one of the many side effects of the antibiotics.  Red blood cell could become 15% affected within days of symptoms in the case of Babesia. Pain killers of course has its uses.

    I have no fear of cancer. If I ever get cancer, no chemo or radiation for me thank you very much. I have witnessed some terrible deaths by friends going down that route. The patient in most cases dies of the cure not the cancer. Cancer is a multi billion dollar industry, Big Pharma have no interest in the cure and there is a cure, not the Big Pharma way and you will nor find out by turning on the tv either. The cure comes in the form of Functional and Integrative Medicine. I have paid for patients, not only of cancer, to follow this path and will do so well into the future, it is one of my life's missions.

    Personally I'm a firm believer in "an ounce of prevention is better that a pound of cure". Hospitals and doctor offices would be closing down by the minute if everybody followed that path, they need sick people to survive. Medical school do not teach nutrition, maybe 15 hours in total if that at all. The likes of Vitamin C, D3/K2, Turmeric/Curcumin etc is a foreign language to them. No wonder we have a world full of ill people with most over 40 on some form of prescription drug on a daily basis along with being overweight. They all have one thing in common, they "believe the science".

    Unconscious from what? What is wrong with being placed on life support in the case of a car accident for instance? We are not talking about illness here, this is emergency care, totally different subjects. You will need to give me an example of exactly what you are talking about.

    Well if for example you were in a car accident, and they had to sedate you to ventilate you or put you into a coma they use drugs to do that and to keep you sedated. Would you ask that your family don't allow doctors to do that? Even if you broke your leg you'd be given pain relief. I am genuinely curious.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2023, 08:45:45 AM
    Quote from: trailer on February 07, 2023, 08:38:40 AM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 05, 2023, 04:20:55 AM
    Quote from: trailer on February 02, 2023, 11:32:42 AM
    Honest question Seamus, if you got ill would you take medicine prescribed by a doctor? What about if you were unconscious and unable to give consent, have you instructed family not to allow Doctors to intervene? Genuinely interested in where you draw lines medically.

    I don't take prescription drugs nor do I take over the counter drugs so why should I go to a doctor for a prescription? There would only be very few exceptions. I do know plenty about Lyme disease and Babesia, both very familiar, Babesia being worse. Then intravenous antibiotics is necessary in an immediate life threatening situation. Sleeping tablets are almost a must due to one of the many side effects of the antibiotics.  Red blood cell could become 15% affected within days of symptoms in the case of Babesia. Pain killers of course has its uses.

    I have no fear of cancer. If I ever get cancer, no chemo or radiation for me thank you very much. I have witnessed some terrible deaths by friends going down that route. The patient in most cases dies of the cure not the cancer. Cancer is a multi billion dollar industry, Big Pharma have no interest in the cure and there is a cure, not the Big Pharma way and you will nor find out by turning on the tv either. The cure comes in the form of Functional and Integrative Medicine. I have paid for patients, not only of cancer, to follow this path and will do so well into the future, it is one of my life's missions.

    Personally I'm a firm believer in "an ounce of prevention is better that a pound of cure". Hospitals and doctor offices would be closing down by the minute if everybody followed that path, they need sick people to survive. Medical school do not teach nutrition, maybe 15 hours in total if that at all. The likes of Vitamin C, D3/K2, Turmeric/Curcumin etc is a foreign language to them. No wonder we have a world full of ill people with most over 40 on some form of prescription drug on a daily basis along with being overweight. They all have one thing in common, they "believe the science".

    Unconscious from what? What is wrong with being placed on life support in the case of a car accident for instance? We are not talking about illness here, this is emergency care, totally different subjects. You will need to give me an example of exactly what you are talking about.

    Well if for example you were in a car accident, and they had to sedate you to ventilate you or put you into a coma they use drugs to do that and to keep you sedated. Would you ask that your family don't allow doctors to do that? Even if you broke your leg you'd be given pain relief. I am genuinely curious.

    He'll not be doing it and has told his family they aint allowed unless its a table spoon of turmeric

    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: thebigfella on February 07, 2023, 09:47:50 AM
    Seamus it's not big Pharma to blame, it's that Mary Poppins one going around feeding people spoonfuls of sugar.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: trueblue1234 on February 07, 2023, 09:54:36 AM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 07, 2023, 02:44:08 AM
    Quote from: Puckoon on February 06, 2023, 11:16:56 PM
    Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 02, 2023, 02:29:32 PM
    There are reasons why the vaccine moved so quickly. It doesn't mean anything underhand happened. (Cut and pasted).

    The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were created with a method that has been in development for years, so the companies could start the vaccine development process early in the pandemic.

    China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly, so scientists could start working on vaccines.
    The vaccine developers didn't skip any testing steps, but conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule to gather data faster.

    Vaccine projects had plenty of resources, as governments invested in research and/or paid for vaccines in advance.

    Some types of COVID-19 vaccines were created using messenger RNA (mRNA), which allows a faster approach than the traditional way that vaccines are made.

    Social media helped companies find and engage study volunteers, and many were willing to help with COVID-19 vaccine research.

    Because COVID-19 is so contagious and widespread, it did not take long to see if the vaccine worked for the study volunteers who were vaccinated.

    Companies began making vaccines early in the process — even before FDA authorization — so some supplies were ready when authorization occurred.

    https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact

    There is a lot of truth here, and an uncomfortable truth for the industry is that the COVID pandemic and the swift approval of the vaccine shone a light on areas of waste and dead space within the pharmaceutical industry. It exists primarily to underscore the Safety Assessment of pharmaceuticals - even if we rehash the same development pathway for drugs of very similar classes. It happens, because of liability.

    Over time we have learned so much about almost all drug modalities. So much so that we could shorten the development time (and money) for a drug (Drug B) that is similar to an already approved product (Drug A) that you see on the TV. Upside, quicker development, drug gets to patient faster, and the drug development is cheaper. Downside is that we are relying on predictive modeling behaviour and assuming that what we understand about Drug A applies unilaterally and without exception to Drug B. Considering that even fully developed drugs that have undergone the full rigorous non clinical and clinical safety testing have thrown up some nasty surprises for patients post commercialization, it is a risk to assume drug similarities and therefore extrapolate data from one drug to another (no matter how similar in structure and mechanism). 

    COVID gave the green light for accepting what we know about a modality (mRNA) and taking that relatively calculated risk to extrapolate that data across the vaccinations and expedite the approval process. In the absence of a global pandemic this would (in my opinion) never have happened.

    Another example of FDA "fast tracking" is for a disease so serious that the patient will die in any case, therefore there is nothing to lose when giving them a novel, not yet approved therapy in an attempt to save their life. FDA compassionate use is an additional expedited protocol

    While you both are lumped together here, please lead me to the document where "China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly". I have yet to see such a thing. I would be forever grateful if one or both of you produced it. Please make sure the document followed the proper guidelines for isolation before submitting. Didn't Johns Hopkins partner with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to hosted Event 201 on October 18, 2019 in NY and another similar high-level pandemic exercise event recently?  So if John Hopkins says such a document exists without showing any evidence, it must be true. Still I would like to see it.

    A compassionate FDA, I've heard it all now.

    I've little interest in pursuing this debate with you as I can see a lost case when it's in front of me. And the rapidly approaching rabbit hole is something I'd prefer to avoid for both our sakes.

    However on the highlighted bit. Have a google, there are any number of articles ( I'm sure even a few from sources you'd accept) that confirm what I said. If you've something to dispute these multiple sources then I'd be keen to hear it.

    https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/china-releases-genetic-data-new-coronavirus-now-deadly
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Seamus on February 10, 2023, 02:35:28 AM
    Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 07, 2023, 09:54:36 AM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 07, 2023, 02:44:08 AM
    Quote from: Puckoon on February 06, 2023, 11:16:56 PM
    Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 02, 2023, 02:29:32 PM
    There are reasons why the vaccine moved so quickly. It doesn't mean anything underhand happened. (Cut and pasted).

    The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were created with a method that has been in development for years, so the companies could start the vaccine development process early in the pandemic.

    China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly, so scientists could start working on vaccines.
    The vaccine developers didn't skip any testing steps, but conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule to gather data faster.

    Vaccine projects had plenty of resources, as governments invested in research and/or paid for vaccines in advance.

    Some types of COVID-19 vaccines were created using messenger RNA (mRNA), which allows a faster approach than the traditional way that vaccines are made.

    Social media helped companies find and engage study volunteers, and many were willing to help with COVID-19 vaccine research.

    Because COVID-19 is so contagious and widespread, it did not take long to see if the vaccine worked for the study volunteers who were vaccinated.

    Companies began making vaccines early in the process — even before FDA authorization — so some supplies were ready when authorization occurred.

    https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact

    There is a lot of truth here, and an uncomfortable truth for the industry is that the COVID pandemic and the swift approval of the vaccine shone a light on areas of waste and dead space within the pharmaceutical industry. It exists primarily to underscore the Safety Assessment of pharmaceuticals - even if we rehash the same development pathway for drugs of very similar classes. It happens, because of liability.

    Over time we have learned so much about almost all drug modalities. So much so that we could shorten the development time (and money) for a drug (Drug B) that is similar to an already approved product (Drug A) that you see on the TV. Upside, quicker development, drug gets to patient faster, and the drug development is cheaper. Downside is that we are relying on predictive modeling behaviour and assuming that what we understand about Drug A applies unilaterally and without exception to Drug B. Considering that even fully developed drugs that have undergone the full rigorous non clinical and clinical safety testing have thrown up some nasty surprises for patients post commercialization, it is a risk to assume drug similarities and therefore extrapolate data from one drug to another (no matter how similar in structure and mechanism). 

    COVID gave the green light for accepting what we know about a modality (mRNA) and taking that relatively calculated risk to extrapolate that data across the vaccinations and expedite the approval process. In the absence of a global pandemic this would (in my opinion) never have happened.

    Another example of FDA "fast tracking" is for a disease so serious that the patient will die in any case, therefore there is nothing to lose when giving them a novel, not yet approved therapy in an attempt to save their life. FDA compassionate use is an additional expedited protocol

    While you both are lumped together here, please lead me to the document where "China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly". I have yet to see such a thing. I would be forever grateful if one or both of you produced it. Please make sure the document followed the proper guidelines for isolation before submitting. Didn't Johns Hopkins partner with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to hosted Event 201 on October 18, 2019 in NY and another similar high-level pandemic exercise event recently?  So if John Hopkins says such a document exists without showing any evidence, it must be true. Still I would like to see it.

    A compassionate FDA, I've heard it all now.

    I've little interest in pursuing this debate with you as I can see a lost case when it's in front of me. And the rapidly approaching rabbit hole is something I'd prefer to avoid for both our sakes.

    However on the highlighted bit. Have a google, there are any number of articles ( I'm sure even a few from sources you'd accept) that confirm what I said. If you've something to dispute these multiple sources then I'd be keen to hear it.

    https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/china-releases-genetic-data-new-coronavirus-now-deadly

    So that's the best you can do trueblue? Some scientific document that was, a bat mind you or was it a dog? I agree, no need to debate that nonsense. I'll love ye and leave ye guys, the very best of luck, stay healthy, stay safe.  May drop back in in a year or two, then again maybe not.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2023, 07:28:04 AM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 10, 2023, 02:35:28 AM
    Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 07, 2023, 09:54:36 AM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 07, 2023, 02:44:08 AM
    Quote from: Puckoon on February 06, 2023, 11:16:56 PM
    Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 02, 2023, 02:29:32 PM
    There are reasons why the vaccine moved so quickly. It doesn't mean anything underhand happened. (Cut and pasted).

    The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were created with a method that has been in development for years, so the companies could start the vaccine development process early in the pandemic.

    China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly, so scientists could start working on vaccines.
    The vaccine developers didn't skip any testing steps, but conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule to gather data faster.

    Vaccine projects had plenty of resources, as governments invested in research and/or paid for vaccines in advance.

    Some types of COVID-19 vaccines were created using messenger RNA (mRNA), which allows a faster approach than the traditional way that vaccines are made.

    Social media helped companies find and engage study volunteers, and many were willing to help with COVID-19 vaccine research.

    Because COVID-19 is so contagious and widespread, it did not take long to see if the vaccine worked for the study volunteers who were vaccinated.

    Companies began making vaccines early in the process — even before FDA authorization — so some supplies were ready when authorization occurred.

    https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact

    There is a lot of truth here, and an uncomfortable truth for the industry is that the COVID pandemic and the swift approval of the vaccine shone a light on areas of waste and dead space within the pharmaceutical industry. It exists primarily to underscore the Safety Assessment of pharmaceuticals - even if we rehash the same development pathway for drugs of very similar classes. It happens, because of liability.

    Over time we have learned so much about almost all drug modalities. So much so that we could shorten the development time (and money) for a drug (Drug B) that is similar to an already approved product (Drug A) that you see on the TV. Upside, quicker development, drug gets to patient faster, and the drug development is cheaper. Downside is that we are relying on predictive modeling behaviour and assuming that what we understand about Drug A applies unilaterally and without exception to Drug B. Considering that even fully developed drugs that have undergone the full rigorous non clinical and clinical safety testing have thrown up some nasty surprises for patients post commercialization, it is a risk to assume drug similarities and therefore extrapolate data from one drug to another (no matter how similar in structure and mechanism). 

    COVID gave the green light for accepting what we know about a modality (mRNA) and taking that relatively calculated risk to extrapolate that data across the vaccinations and expedite the approval process. In the absence of a global pandemic this would (in my opinion) never have happened.

    Another example of FDA "fast tracking" is for a disease so serious that the patient will die in any case, therefore there is nothing to lose when giving them a novel, not yet approved therapy in an attempt to save their life. FDA compassionate use is an additional expedited protocol

    While you both are lumped together here, please lead me to the document where "China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly". I have yet to see such a thing. I would be forever grateful if one or both of you produced it. Please make sure the document followed the proper guidelines for isolation before submitting. Didn't Johns Hopkins partner with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to hosted Event 201 on October 18, 2019 in NY and another similar high-level pandemic exercise event recently?  So if John Hopkins says such a document exists without showing any evidence, it must be true. Still I would like to see it.

    A compassionate FDA, I've heard it all now.

    I've little interest in pursuing this debate with you as I can see a lost case when it's in front of me. And the rapidly approaching rabbit hole is something I'd prefer to avoid for both our sakes.

    However on the highlighted bit. Have a google, there are any number of articles ( I'm sure even a few from sources you'd accept) that confirm what I said. If you've something to dispute these multiple sources then I'd be keen to hear it.

    https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/china-releases-genetic-data-new-coronavirus-now-deadly

    So that's the best you can do trueblue? Some scientific document that was, a bat mind you or was it a dog? I agree, no need to debate that nonsense. I'll love ye and leave ye guys, the very best of luck, stay healthy, stay safe.  May drop back in in a year or two, then again maybe not.

    A turmeric a day and all that!!
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: trueblue1234 on February 10, 2023, 09:34:35 AM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 10, 2023, 02:35:28 AM
    Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 07, 2023, 09:54:36 AM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 07, 2023, 02:44:08 AM
    Quote from: Puckoon on February 06, 2023, 11:16:56 PM
    Quote from: trueblue1234 on February 02, 2023, 02:29:32 PM
    There are reasons why the vaccine moved so quickly. It doesn't mean anything underhand happened. (Cut and pasted).

    The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were created with a method that has been in development for years, so the companies could start the vaccine development process early in the pandemic.

    China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly, so scientists could start working on vaccines.
    The vaccine developers didn't skip any testing steps, but conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule to gather data faster.

    Vaccine projects had plenty of resources, as governments invested in research and/or paid for vaccines in advance.

    Some types of COVID-19 vaccines were created using messenger RNA (mRNA), which allows a faster approach than the traditional way that vaccines are made.

    Social media helped companies find and engage study volunteers, and many were willing to help with COVID-19 vaccine research.

    Because COVID-19 is so contagious and widespread, it did not take long to see if the vaccine worked for the study volunteers who were vaccinated.

    Companies began making vaccines early in the process — even before FDA authorization — so some supplies were ready when authorization occurred.

    https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact

    There is a lot of truth here, and an uncomfortable truth for the industry is that the COVID pandemic and the swift approval of the vaccine shone a light on areas of waste and dead space within the pharmaceutical industry. It exists primarily to underscore the Safety Assessment of pharmaceuticals - even if we rehash the same development pathway for drugs of very similar classes. It happens, because of liability.

    Over time we have learned so much about almost all drug modalities. So much so that we could shorten the development time (and money) for a drug (Drug B) that is similar to an already approved product (Drug A) that you see on the TV. Upside, quicker development, drug gets to patient faster, and the drug development is cheaper. Downside is that we are relying on predictive modeling behaviour and assuming that what we understand about Drug A applies unilaterally and without exception to Drug B. Considering that even fully developed drugs that have undergone the full rigorous non clinical and clinical safety testing have thrown up some nasty surprises for patients post commercialization, it is a risk to assume drug similarities and therefore extrapolate data from one drug to another (no matter how similar in structure and mechanism). 

    COVID gave the green light for accepting what we know about a modality (mRNA) and taking that relatively calculated risk to extrapolate that data across the vaccinations and expedite the approval process. In the absence of a global pandemic this would (in my opinion) never have happened.

    Another example of FDA "fast tracking" is for a disease so serious that the patient will die in any case, therefore there is nothing to lose when giving them a novel, not yet approved therapy in an attempt to save their life. FDA compassionate use is an additional expedited protocol

    While you both are lumped together here, please lead me to the document where "China isolated and shared genetic information about COVID-19 promptly". I have yet to see such a thing. I would be forever grateful if one or both of you produced it. Please make sure the document followed the proper guidelines for isolation before submitting. Didn't Johns Hopkins partner with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to hosted Event 201 on October 18, 2019 in NY and another similar high-level pandemic exercise event recently?  So if John Hopkins says such a document exists without showing any evidence, it must be true. Still I would like to see it.

    A compassionate FDA, I've heard it all now.

    I've little interest in pursuing this debate with you as I can see a lost case when it's in front of me. And the rapidly approaching rabbit hole is something I'd prefer to avoid for both our sakes.

    However on the highlighted bit. Have a google, there are any number of articles ( I'm sure even a few from sources you'd accept) that confirm what I said. If you've something to dispute these multiple sources then I'd be keen to hear it.

    https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/china-releases-genetic-data-new-coronavirus-now-deadly

    So that's the best you can do trueblue? Some scientific document that was, a bat mind you or was it a dog? I agree, no need to debate that nonsense. I'll love ye and leave ye guys, the very best of luck, stay healthy, stay safe.  May drop back in in a year or two, then again maybe not.

    As I said google is your friend. But we're wasting time as no source I provide is going to change your mind. Here's another albeit a big more of a slog.

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2001017

    Enjoy your time away, stay safe.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Seamus on February 10, 2023, 07:46:00 PM
    Just a little encore that I feel is necessary. A couple of quotations that will hopefully save lives as at this stage, three years on we all know of somebody who's life was suddenly cut far too short because of the jab.

    "Helmets prevent skull fractures. Tinfoil hats prevent myocarditis"

    I love my Tinfoil hat, so enlightening and empowering.

    "Google is the Enemy"

    Adios Amigos, now where is that Turmeric?
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 10, 2023, 07:59:35 PM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 10, 2023, 07:46:00 PM
    Just a little encore that I feel is necessary. A couple of quotations that will hopefully save lives as at this stage, three years on we all know of somebody who's life was suddenly cut far too short because of the jab.

    "Helmets prevent skull fractures. Tinfoil hats prevent myocarditis"

    I love my Tinfoil hat, so enlightening and empowering.

    "Google is the Enemy"

    Adios Amigos, now where is that Turmeric?

    I don't know anyone that died because of the vaccine
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: armaghniac on February 10, 2023, 08:11:41 PM
    Quote from: Seamus on February 10, 2023, 07:46:00 PM
    Just a little encore that I feel is necessary. A couple of quotations that will hopefully save lives as at this stage, three years on we all know of somebody who's life was suddenly cut far too short because of the jab.

    No, we don't. But some of us would not be here without the jab.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: From the Bunker on February 10, 2023, 09:06:10 PM
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/achill-island-boy-14-died-three-weeks-after-getting-first-dose-of-pfizer-covid-vaccine-inquest-hears-42162426.html (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/achill-island-boy-14-died-three-weeks-after-getting-first-dose-of-pfizer-covid-vaccine-inquest-hears-42162426.html)
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: armaghniac on February 10, 2023, 11:59:29 PM
    Quote from: From the Bunker on February 10, 2023, 09:06:10 PM
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/achill-island-boy-14-died-three-weeks-after-getting-first-dose-of-pfizer-covid-vaccine-inquest-hears-42162426.html (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/achill-island-boy-14-died-three-weeks-after-getting-first-dose-of-pfizer-covid-vaccine-inquest-hears-42162426.html)

    Didn't know him.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: From the Bunker on February 13, 2023, 12:42:18 AM
    Excess deaths around the world.


    https://twitter.com/wolsned/status/1624744582263996417 (https://twitter.com/wolsned/status/1624744582263996417)
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: armaghniac on February 13, 2023, 12:56:27 AM
    Quote from: From the Bunker on February 13, 2023, 12:42:18 AM
    Excess deaths around the world.


    https://twitter.com/wolsned/status/1624744582263996417 (https://twitter.com/wolsned/status/1624744582263996417)

    The usual shite data, no source and no date.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: From the Bunker on February 13, 2023, 01:15:00 AM
    Quote from: armaghniac on February 13, 2023, 12:56:27 AM
    Quote from: From the Bunker on February 13, 2023, 12:42:18 AM
    Excess deaths around the world.


    https://twitter.com/wolsned/status/1624744582263996417 (https://twitter.com/wolsned/status/1624744582263996417)

    The usual shite data, no source and no date.

    Look at the video there is a sourse and plenty of dates.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: theskull1 on February 14, 2023, 03:51:54 PM
    To anyone who lost loved ones to covid in hospital, this will not be an easy watch

    Pandemic unnecessary deaths, the data

    https://youtu.be/GEwktv-AGEw (https://youtu.be/GEwktv-AGEw)

    How many of these deaths were covid?
    How many of these deaths were iatrogenic?

    iatrogenic
    adjective
    : induced unintentionally by a physician or surgeon or by medical treatment or diagnostic procedures
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 14, 2023, 04:06:37 PM
    that bluffer still pumping out the videos then
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: theskull1 on February 14, 2023, 05:09:53 PM
    That 'bluffer' presenting official guidelines from NICE (the version issued in March 2020) along with official data on the spike in these 'end of life' drugs he's referring to  :-\

    https://web.archive.org/web/20200409054527/https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng163/resources/covid19-rapid-guideline-managing-symptoms-including-at-the-end-of-life-in-the-community-pdf-66141899069893 (https://web.archive.org/web/20200409054527/https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng163/resources/covid19-rapid-guideline-managing-symptoms-including-at-the-end-of-life-in-the-community-pdf-66141899069893)


    https://openprescribing.net/analyse/#org=regional_team&numIds=0408020W0,1501041T0,0408020V0,0401010Q0&denom=nothing&selectedTab=chart (https://openprescribing.net/analyse/#org=regional_team&numIds=0408020W0,1501041T0,0408020V0,0401010Q0&denom=nothing&selectedTab=chart)

    Whats to bluff here?

    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: PadraicHenryPearse on February 14, 2023, 05:46:19 PM
    again i gave benefit of the doubt to this muppet and the poster... i wasted 20 mins listening to waffle....

    he didn't answer any 4 of his questions he mentioned at the end only get very sombre during them.

    he didn't mention that most of the guidance had as required or when required.. assuming doctors treat each case on it merits.

    he without evidence suggests that people who took the drugs he mentioned caused their deaths. He just shows different potentially urelated info and lets people assume causation. He didn't speculate that they were provided in the appropriate circumstances to provide end of life care.

    I would suspect that end of life care is provided more when more people are dying.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: thebigfella on February 14, 2023, 07:28:35 PM
    Anyone check out how much John Campbell pretend doctor earns from this bluffing. Makes you think.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: theskull1 on February 14, 2023, 11:11:43 PM
    The man is asking questions in regard to the guidelines that were being recommended at that time ... these in particular. Not unreasonable considering they we subsequently updated

    6.5 Consider an opioid and benzodiazepine combination (see tables 4 and 5) for
    patients with COVID-19 who:
    • are at the end of life and
    • have moderate to severe breathlessness and               <<<<<<<< see below
    • are distressed.                                                          <<<<<<<<

    Consider concomitant use of an antiemetic and a regular stimulant laxative. At the
    time of publication (April 2020), opioids and benzodiazepines did not have a UK
    marketing authorisation for moderate to severe breathlessness (see the General
    Medical Council's guidance on prescribing unlicensed medicines for further
    information).
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 14, 2023, 11:42:27 PM
    I don't think there's anyone out there that looking back feels things could have been done better.

    But we ran with it and hopefully everything comes out in the wash.

    That's what the enquiries (when they happen) will bring about
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: imtommygunn on February 15, 2023, 07:32:36 AM
    Things could have been done a good bit better in various regards but if you believed some of the stuff that does the rounds you would nearly think it was genocide and you would never talk to any medical professional  you knew ever again.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: clarshack on February 15, 2023, 11:53:32 AM
    Quote from: thebigfella on February 14, 2023, 07:28:35 PM
    Anyone check out how much John Campbell pretend doctor earns from this bluffing. Makes you think.

    had never heard of him before so checked there and he's not even a real Doctor. He's a Nurse ffs who is making a pure fortune on Youtube.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: J70 on February 15, 2023, 12:13:32 PM
    Quote from: imtommygunn on February 15, 2023, 07:32:36 AM
    Things could have been done a good bit better in various regards but if you believed some of the stuff that does the rounds you would nearly think it was genocide and you would never talk to any medical professional  you knew ever again.

    And those who are flipping out over the necessarily cautious, but trial and error, approach to a novel viral pandemic are the same people who were pushing the likes of ivermectin (already familiar to those of us who grew up on cattle farms) based on nothing more than anecdotes and rumours.

    Its the contrarianism that is the point, not the substance.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: theskull1 on February 15, 2023, 01:00:40 PM
    Terrible take J70 .... how can you conclude that?

    Guidelines recommending using well understood end of life medications (so not trial and error I'd argue) to suppress symptoms (symptoms which might be keep the person alive) rather than focus on treating the cause (the infection) on the face of it doesn't feel right. Please explain what you think is the trial and error component? If keeping people alive was the focus ... surely that protocol would have been seen as high risk at the very least.

    Compare that on the other hand to recommendations that were made by frontline doctors (after trial and error) who were reporting great success treating patients using an off label anti viral medication with a safety profile better than aspirin. Let remember how quick the main stream rubbished and ridiculed the idea of deploying this ahead of the EUA sign off to allow this new (safe and effective) vaccine technology. Weird to me that there wasn't at least one country in the west who didn't give it a try when the death counts were as high as they were. Same with no one pushing vitamin D. Both these examples were extremely low risk. 
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: J70 on February 15, 2023, 01:34:59 PM
    I wasn't engaged in the specifics of whatever you're on about skull.

    More a general observation in response to intommygun's post on the after the fact second guessing and contrarianism coming from the right on just about everything to do with the pandemic, mostly from people on whose shoulders rested no responsibility whatsoever.

    My sympathies are with the medical staff and health professionals and even politicians who had to struggle and make decisions based on incomplete information and under terrible circumstances, including, for some, serious risks to their own health at the beginning. I have no patience for the vilification of people like these who were trying to do the best they could to save thousands of lives.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: theskull1 on February 15, 2023, 02:43:49 PM
    Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2023, 01:34:59 PM
    My sympathies are with the medical staff and health professionals and even politicians who had to struggle and make decisions based on incomplete information and under terrible circumstances, including, for some, serious risks to their own health at the beginning.
    I have no patience for the vilification of people like these who were trying to do the best they could to save thousands of lives.

    Tell me this..... given the efforts applied to ridicule and silence those trying to bring Ivermectin into the Covid treatment debate, what sympathies do you have for all the people responsible for making sure it was never considered whilst people continued to die? It had a 40 year extremely low safety profile, so given the on the ground signals from front line ICU physicians using it, how could completely dismissing/ignoring this signal rather than giving it a good go (in the hope it helped) be seen as trying their best to save lives?


    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Gmac on February 15, 2023, 03:25:40 PM
    Quote from: theskull1 on February 15, 2023, 02:43:49 PM
    Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2023, 01:34:59 PM
    My sympathies are with the medical staff and health professionals and even politicians who had to struggle and make decisions based on incomplete information and under terrible circumstances, including, for some, serious risks to their own health at the beginning.
    I have no patience for the vilification of people like these who were trying to do the best they could to save thousands of lives.

    Tell me this..... given the efforts applied to ridicule and silence those trying to bring Ivermectin into the Covid treatment debate, what sympathies do you have for all the people responsible for making sure it was never considered whilst people continued to die? It had a 40 year extremely low safety profile, so given the on the ground signals from front line ICU physicians using it, how could completely dismissing/ignoring this signal rather than giving it a good go (in the hope it helped) be seen as trying their best to save lives?
    Trump mentioned it so that was enough for j70 to put it on the garbage heap , that being said  the Trump administration are the ones who fast tracked the vaccine he's 100% behind .
    When they didn't know/lie about it stopping people getting infected and it stopping transmission why would you believe anything else they say about it ?
    So called Smart guys can't own up to being lied to or hoodwinked I suspect.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: J70 on February 15, 2023, 04:29:46 PM
    Quote from: theskull1 on February 15, 2023, 02:43:49 PM
    Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2023, 01:34:59 PM
    My sympathies are with the medical staff and health professionals and even politicians who had to struggle and make decisions based on incomplete information and under terrible circumstances, including, for some, serious risks to their own health at the beginning.
    I have no patience for the vilification of people like these who were trying to do the best they could to save thousands of lives.

    Tell me this..... given the efforts applied to ridicule and silence those trying to bring Ivermectin into the Covid treatment debate, what sympathies do you have for all the people responsible for making sure it was never considered whilst people continued to die? It had a 40 year extremely low safety profile, so given the on the ground signals from front line ICU physicians using it, how could completely dismissing/ignoring this signal rather than giving it a good go (in the hope it helped) be seen as trying their best to save lives?

    The issue with ivermectin (which still hasn't been shown to be an effective treatment – if I'm out of date, go ahead and post the evidence) was that it was being falsely pushed, for political reasons, as a plausible alternative to the measures that were in place at the time. f**k lockdowns, f**k masks, f**k social distancing, just give a blast of ivermectin to those infected and all will be well. Even if it HAD turned out by this stage to be a safe, effective treatment, that would not have justified the efforts to use it to smear and rabble rouse at the time. And who the hell was silenced? The ivermectin treatment was all over the place! Farmers and ranchers in the states found it hard to get at one point because even the veterinary versions were selling out as people tried to self-medicate. The FDA had to issue a warning notice to the public about the risks. Don't go crying because those with actual responsibility refused to rush this unproven drug to market for this purpose.

    Do you think Fox News and the rest of the US right wing would have started pushing ivermectin if the recommendations had come from Fauci and the CDC and NIH? Not a chance. It was all part of their anti-government/anti-authoritarian grievance bullshit.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: J70 on February 15, 2023, 04:30:35 PM
    Quote from: Gmac on February 15, 2023, 03:25:40 PM
    Quote from: theskull1 on February 15, 2023, 02:43:49 PM
    Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2023, 01:34:59 PM
    My sympathies are with the medical staff and health professionals and even politicians who had to struggle and make decisions based on incomplete information and under terrible circumstances, including, for some, serious risks to their own health at the beginning.
    I have no patience for the vilification of people like these who were trying to do the best they could to save thousands of lives.

    Tell me this..... given the efforts applied to ridicule and silence those trying to bring Ivermectin into the Covid treatment debate, what sympathies do you have for all the people responsible for making sure it was never considered whilst people continued to die? It had a 40 year extremely low safety profile, so given the on the ground signals from front line ICU physicians using it, how could completely dismissing/ignoring this signal rather than giving it a good go (in the hope it helped) be seen as trying their best to save lives?
    Trump mentioned it so that was enough for j70 to put it on the garbage heap , that being said  the Trump administration are the ones who fast tracked the vaccine he's 100% behind .
    When they didn't know/lie about it stopping people getting infected and it stopping transmission why would you believe anything else they say about it ?
    So called Smart guys can't own up to being lied to or hoodwinked I suspect.

    Which is it? Trump pushed ivermectin so I mindlessly rejected it or Trump fast-tracked the vaccine so I mindlessly accepted it?
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Gmac on February 15, 2023, 07:16:41 PM
    Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2023, 04:30:35 PM
    Quote from: Gmac on February 15, 2023, 03:25:40 PM
    Quote from: theskull1 on February 15, 2023, 02:43:49 PM
    Quote from: J70 on February 15, 2023, 01:34:59 PM
    My sympathies are with the medical staff and health professionals and even politicians who had to struggle and make decisions based on incomplete information and under terrible circumstances, including, for some, serious risks to their own health at the beginning.
    I have no patience for the vilification of people like these who were trying to do the best they could to save thousands of lives.

    Tell me this..... given the efforts applied to ridicule and silence those trying to bring Ivermectin into the Covid treatment debate, what sympathies do you have for all the people responsible for making sure it was never considered whilst people continued to die? It had a 40 year extremely low safety profile, so given the on the ground signals from front line ICU physicians using it, how could completely dismissing/ignoring this signal rather than giving it a good go (in the hope it helped) be seen as trying their best to save lives?
    Trump mentioned it so that was enough for j70 to put it on the garbage heap , that being said  the Trump administration are the ones who fast tracked the vaccine he's 100% behind .
    When they didn't know/lie about it stopping people getting infected and it stopping transmission why would you believe anything else they say about it ?
    So called Smart guys can't own up to being lied to or hoodwinked I suspect.

    Which is it? Trump pushed ivermectin so I mindlessly rejected it or Trump fast-tracked the vaccine so I mindlessly accepted it?
    you probably went all in the vaccine around November 4 2020
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: clarshack on March 01, 2023, 04:18:05 PM
    what's the story with these Lockdown files that have been leaked? genuine or fake?
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: trailer on March 02, 2023, 01:21:37 PM
    Many Politicians are very stupid and incompetent people, both here locally in NI (Jim Wells Health Minister, Deirdre Hargey communities minister for example) and in ROI (Shane Ross, Stephen Donnelly, Eamon Ryan) but also in the UK (Hancock, Cleverly, Williamson, Johnson, Truss) and the USA (Trump and Biden)
    Just look at the WhatsApp messages from Hancock et all. These people had their hands on the levers of power making key policy decisions.

    They are that stupid and dense that they don't actually know they are in above their heads. They aren't clever enough to see it. We vote these people in, which of course makes us dense as well. We're most probably doomed as a species.   
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: trailer on March 02, 2023, 02:08:59 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    Seems legit
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: trueblue1234 on March 02, 2023, 02:35:14 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    There were plenty of people who got covid and had mild or no symptoms without ivermectin. We may have been fed lies about covid. But ivermectin may be one of those lies.

    The reality is that there is no evidence to say it had any effect.

    https://www.lstmed.ac.uk/news-events/news/ivermectin-for-covid-19-review-update-11-trials-and-no-evidence-of-benefit-shown
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2023, 02:36:00 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    You can also overdose on ivermectin, which can cause nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, hypotension (low blood pressure), allergic reactions (itching and hives), dizziness, ataxia (problems with balance), seizures, coma and even death

    Pain in your neck and back.
    Serious eye problems. Symptoms can include: redness. bleeding. swelling. pain. ...
    Shortness of breath.
    Inability to control urination.
    Inability to control bowel movements.
    Trouble standing or walking.
    Confusion.
    Extreme tiredness.

    Any drug, even the ones that have been tested for years have issues, for someone into his 60's you'd think you'd know that by now?
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 02:44:19 PM
    MR2 thanks for telling me, you can overdose on any drug. Good grief.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2023, 02:51:05 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 02:44:19 PM
    MR2 thanks for telling me, you can overdose on any drug. Good grief.

    the one below that wasn't overdose, hopefully you kept your bowel movements in check :D



    The FDA has not authorized or approved ivermectin for use in preventing or treating COVID-19 in humans or animals. Ivermectin is approved for human use to treat infections caused by some parasitic worms and head lice and skin conditions like rosacea.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: thebigfella on March 02, 2023, 05:20:57 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    There was no data to support off label prescribing and certainly less data around the side effects when mixed with other perscribed medications.

    So we have no evidence it works but an increased risk of unknown side effects when combining with basically an "unlimited" cocktail of other meds. What harm can it do, who the fcuk knows - It could be none or 100k people drop dead because they had an adverse reaction as they were on some random heart medication.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: lenny on March 02, 2023, 05:50:28 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    Peer reviewed studies have shown that ivermectin was worse than useless in treating covid so you completely wasted your money in acquiring it and also risked quite a few side effects from a not very nice drug which is used for treating parasitic infections.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Gmac on March 02, 2023, 06:11:33 PM
    Quote from: lenny on March 02, 2023, 05:50:28 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    Peer reviewed studies have shown that ivermectin was worse than useless in treating covid so you completely wasted your money in acquiring it and also risked quite a few side effects from a not very nice drug which is used for treating parasitic infections.
    no money in invermectin
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: lenny on March 02, 2023, 06:25:13 PM
    Quote from: Gmac on March 02, 2023, 06:11:33 PM
    Quote from: lenny on March 02, 2023, 05:50:28 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    Peer reviewed studies have shown that ivermectin was worse than useless in treating covid so you completely wasted your money in acquiring it and also risked quite a few side effects from a not very nice drug which is used for treating parasitic infections.
    no money in invermectin

    Except for those selling it on the black market to idiots.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on March 02, 2023, 06:40:06 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    So you had COVID in the early period and you took ivermectin because you didn't want to take a vaccine that didn't come out until 9 months after?  (Dec 2020)
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: JoG2 on March 02, 2023, 06:52:11 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    I work in the health sector and on first reading I thought you'd been prescribed Ivermectin by a GP. But, you bought it under the counter somewhere the doctors in question are / were YouTube doctors yes?
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Gmac on March 02, 2023, 06:54:49 PM
    Quote from: lenny on March 02, 2023, 06:25:13 PM
    Quote from: Gmac on March 02, 2023, 06:11:33 PM
    Quote from: lenny on March 02, 2023, 05:50:28 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    Peer reviewed studies have shown that ivermectin was worse than useless in treating covid so you completely wasted your money in acquiring it and also risked quite a few side effects from a not very nice drug which is used for treating parasitic infections.
    no money in invermectin

    Except for those selling it on the black market to idiots.
    black market ffs thought the vet sold it 😎 at least it's out of his system now unlike some products
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: J70 on March 02, 2023, 07:46:13 PM
    Quote from: Gmac on March 02, 2023, 06:11:33 PM
    Quote from: lenny on March 02, 2023, 05:50:28 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    Peer reviewed studies have shown that ivermectin was worse than useless in treating covid so you completely wasted your money in acquiring it and also risked quite a few side effects from a not very nice drug which is used for treating parasitic infections.
    no money in invermectin

    In other words, the science doesn't fit my political stance so it must be corrupt.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Gmac on March 02, 2023, 08:15:21 PM
    Quote from: J70 on March 02, 2023, 07:46:13 PM
    Quote from: Gmac on March 02, 2023, 06:11:33 PM
    Quote from: lenny on March 02, 2023, 05:50:28 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    Peer reviewed studies have shown that ivermectin was worse than useless in treating covid so you completely wasted your money in acquiring it and also risked quite a few side effects from a not very nice drug which is used for treating parasitic infections.
    no money in invermectin

    In other words, the science doesn't fit my political stance so it must be corrupt.
    nothing got to do with politics
    Science lol
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: J70 on March 02, 2023, 09:02:55 PM
    Quote from: Gmac on March 02, 2023, 08:15:21 PM
    Quote from: J70 on March 02, 2023, 07:46:13 PM
    Quote from: Gmac on March 02, 2023, 06:11:33 PM
    Quote from: lenny on March 02, 2023, 05:50:28 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    Peer reviewed studies have shown that ivermectin was worse than useless in treating covid so you completely wasted your money in acquiring it and also risked quite a few side effects from a not very nice drug which is used for treating parasitic infections.
    no money in invermectin

    In other words, the science doesn't fit my political stance so it must be corrupt.
    nothing got to do with politics
    Science lol

    Sure Gmac.

    And yeah, f**k science.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: shawshank on March 03, 2023, 12:36:18 PM
    Quote from: JoG2 on March 02, 2023, 06:52:11 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    I work in the health sector and on first reading I thought you'd been prescribed Ivermectin by a GP. But, you bought it under the counter somewhere the doctors in question are / were YouTube doctors yes?

    Well done, you have just let your imagination run riot. There are very well qualified doctors/experts who have proved there is another way. Another handful of years and I'll happily take the covid vaccine when real data is available to support no long term problems. Btw I also work in the health sector, for years and have met some brilliant people and staff, outstanding individuals, but unfortunately equally as many wankers. To help I'm in the band 8s scale. I've been around. seen alot.

    Quote from: Gmac on March 02, 2023, 06:54:49 PM
    Quote from: lenny on March 02, 2023, 06:25:13 PM
    Quote from: Gmac on March 02, 2023, 06:11:33 PM
    Quote from: lenny on March 02, 2023, 05:50:28 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    Peer reviewed studies have shown that ivermectin was worse than useless in treating covid so you completely wasted your money in acquiring it and also risked quite a few side effects from a not very nice drug which is used for treating parasitic infections.
    no money in invermectin

    Except for those selling it on the black market to idiots.
    black market ffs thought the vet sold it 😎 at least it's out of his system now unlike some products

    That level of ignorance. How is the bull nose ring, must be sore being led by it.

    Quote from: lenny on March 02, 2023, 05:50:28 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    Peer reviewed studies have shown that ivermectin was worse than useless in treating covid so you completely wasted your money in acquiring it and also risked quite a few side effects from a not very nice drug which is used for treating parasitic infections.

    Was those peered reviewed studies funded by Pfizer. You realise it has been used for years very safely. Yet you find it unpalatable that other experts in medicine have used it to treat the condition effectively. I suppose its important to elaborate and say ivermectin used with other meds proven over years to be safe taken in the perscribed dosage.

    i suppose we have the testimony of two adults who had covid during the delta variant period and took a diiferent path to treat it and were successful.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: trueblue1234 on March 03, 2023, 01:33:42 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 03, 2023, 12:36:18 PM
    Quote from: JoG2 on March 02, 2023, 06:52:11 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    I work in the health sector and on first reading I thought you'd been prescribed Ivermectin by a GP. But, you bought it under the counter somewhere the doctors in question are / were YouTube doctors yes?

    Well done, you have just let your imagination run riot. There are very well qualified doctors/experts who have proved there is another way. Another handful of years and I'll happily take the covid vaccine when real data is available to support no long term problems. Btw I also work in the health sector, for years and have met some brilliant people and staff, outstanding individuals, but unfortunately equally as many wankers. To help I'm in the band 8s scale. I've been around. seen alot.

    Quote from: Gmac on March 02, 2023, 06:54:49 PM
    Quote from: lenny on March 02, 2023, 06:25:13 PM
    Quote from: Gmac on March 02, 2023, 06:11:33 PM
    Quote from: lenny on March 02, 2023, 05:50:28 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    Peer reviewed studies have shown that ivermectin was worse than useless in treating covid so you completely wasted your money in acquiring it and also risked quite a few side effects from a not very nice drug which is used for treating parasitic infections.
    no money in invermectin

    Except for those selling it on the black market to idiots.
    black market ffs thought the vet sold it 😎 at least it's out of his system now unlike some products

    That level of ignorance. How is the bull nose ring, must be sore being led by it.

    Quote from: lenny on March 02, 2023, 05:50:28 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    Peer reviewed studies have shown that ivermectin was worse than useless in treating covid so you completely wasted your money in acquiring it and also risked quite a few side effects from a not very nice drug which is used for treating parasitic infections.

    Was those peered reviewed studies funded by Pfizer. You realise it has been used for years very safely. Yet you find it unpalatable that other experts in medicine have used it to treat the condition effectively. I suppose its important to elaborate and say ivermectin used with other meds proven over years to be safe taken in the perscribed dosage.

    i suppose we have the testimony of two adults who had covid during the delta variant period and took a diiferent path to treat it and were successful.
    Unfortunately, as mentioned, the studies showed that it has no effect on treating covid regardless of what any individual ad hoc doctors believe. Paracetamol would have served as well.

    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Armagh18 on March 03, 2023, 02:01:48 PM
    Is there anything to be said for a slap of hot whiskeys
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: lenny on March 03, 2023, 03:00:58 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 03, 2023, 12:36:18 PM
    Quote from: JoG2 on March 02, 2023, 06:52:11 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    I work in the health sector and on first reading I thought you'd been prescribed Ivermectin by a GP. But, you bought it under the counter somewhere the doctors in question are / were YouTube doctors yes?

    Well done, you have just let your imagination run riot. There are very well qualified doctors/experts who have proved there is another way. Another handful of years and I'll happily take the covid vaccine when real data is available to support no long term problems. Btw I also work in the health sector, for years and have met some brilliant people and staff, outstanding individuals, but unfortunately equally as many wankers. To help I'm in the band 8s scale. I've been around. seen alot.

    Quote from: Gmac on March 02, 2023, 06:54:49 PM
    Quote from: lenny on March 02, 2023, 06:25:13 PM
    Quote from: Gmac on March 02, 2023, 06:11:33 PM
    Quote from: lenny on March 02, 2023, 05:50:28 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    Peer reviewed studies have shown that ivermectin was worse than useless in treating covid so you completely wasted your money in acquiring it and also risked quite a few side effects from a not very nice drug which is used for treating parasitic infections.
    no money in invermectin

    Except for those selling it on the black market to idiots.
    black market ffs thought the vet sold it 😎 at least it's out of his system now unlike some products

    That level of ignorance. How is the bull nose ring, must be sore being led by it.

    Quote from: lenny on March 02, 2023, 05:50:28 PM
    Quote from: shawshank on March 02, 2023, 01:42:39 PM
    FF,s ivermectin, if you stopped being fed the MSM bullshit, it worked for many, who we capable of thinking and researching themselves. Both my partner and I who are in our 60's had covid in the early covid period and took ivermectin, followed the guidance closely from doctors who were demonstrating that it worked. Why, because we were at our age not prepared to take something that had no long term data, whilst ivermectin has been around for ages and the data was there to support that it was no risk to our health if proper dosage was given. Our symptoms were ridiculously mild. We have been told some serious lies around covid. And there also no doubt, there is a profile that covid is seriously dangerous to, but money is always underneath every story

    Peer reviewed studies have shown that ivermectin was worse than useless in treating covid so you completely wasted your money in acquiring it and also risked quite a few side effects from a not very nice drug which is used for treating parasitic infections.

    Was those peered reviewed studies funded by Pfizer. You realise it has been used for years very safely. Yet you find it unpalatable that other experts in medicine have used it to treat the condition effectively. I suppose its important to elaborate and say ivermectin used with other meds proven over years to be safe taken in the perscribed dosage.

    i suppose we have the testimony of two adults who had covid during the delta variant period and took a diiferent path to treat it and were successful.

    What about the testimony of literally millions who recovered from covid after taking nothing or maybe took paracetamol. It's extremely likely you would've recovered also without wasting money on something which had no effect except for the risk of unpleasant side effects.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 03, 2023, 04:59:06 PM
    You could get band 8 in the health service for cleaning toilets ffs!! Or pushing pens, not sure which one shawshank falls under but could hazard a guess
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: RedHand88 on March 21, 2023, 01:10:40 PM
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/21/president-joe-biden-orders-release-of-us-intelligence-on-potential-links-between-covid-and-wuhan-lab (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/21/president-joe-biden-orders-release-of-us-intelligence-on-potential-links-between-covid-and-wuhan-lab)

    Remember when this was rubbished as a conspiracy theory?
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: J70 on March 21, 2023, 01:23:03 PM
    Quote from: RedHand88 on March 21, 2023, 01:10:40 PM
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/21/president-joe-biden-orders-release-of-us-intelligence-on-potential-links-between-covid-and-wuhan-lab (https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/21/president-joe-biden-orders-release-of-us-intelligence-on-potential-links-between-covid-and-wuhan-lab)

    Remember when this was rubbished as a conspiracy theory?

    What, exactly, was rubbished as a conspiracy theory?

    That it might have been a lab leak? That it was Fauci's fault due to gain-of-function research? That the Chinese government either deliberately or accidently released it?

    Most responsible people said it was too early to know.

    Just this week FFS there's new research pointing at racoon dogs in the wet markets as a possible source.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Gmac on March 21, 2023, 01:29:10 PM
    What's next I wonder 🤔
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Keyser soze on March 21, 2023, 04:25:09 PM
    I'm just happy that there would be no money in selling Ivermectin.

    And especially not for BIG Pharma!
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2023, 10:24:12 PM
    Wife bad with it at the minute. She's had it before and no real issues, but now has shortness of breath and high temperature..

    She's got a good pension and life insurance  ;D
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on March 22, 2023, 10:25:04 PM
    Have all the dotted lines been signed?

    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2023, 10:26:21 PM
    Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on March 22, 2023, 10:25:04 PM
    Have all the dotted lines been signed?

    Hope so, with the amount of moaning one of us will certainly die!!
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: ONeill on March 22, 2023, 10:35:09 PM
    Seems to be a right bit of it about mid-Ulster.

    I don't think i'd ever test for it again unless very unwell. But if I was very unwell I'd be staying away from people anyway.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on March 22, 2023, 10:38:02 PM
    Well, hopefully the levity of MR's post is an indication that there's nothing too far wrong.

    I know I'd have to approach the missus for passwords for various financials if she was bad though!
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on March 22, 2023, 10:40:42 PM
    Quote from: ONeill on March 22, 2023, 10:35:09 PM
    Seems to be a right bit of it about mid-Ulster.

    I don't think i'd ever test for it again unless very unwell. But if I was very unwell I'd be staying away from people anyway.

    I'd be afraid of passing something on to an elderly coworker or neighbor, so for now at least, we still test with any symptoms. 
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: armaghniac on March 22, 2023, 10:41:43 PM
    Quote from: ONeill on March 22, 2023, 10:35:09 PM
    Seems to be a right bit of it about mid-Ulster.

    I don't think i'd ever test for it again unless very unwell. But if I was very unwell I'd be staying away from people anyway.

    Your ability to infect others is not determined by how well you feel.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: ONeill on March 22, 2023, 10:52:06 PM
    Ach I know but I'd do it to get a locka days more off the work.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2023, 10:54:10 PM
    Quote from: ONeill on March 22, 2023, 10:52:06 PM
    Ach I know but I'd do it to get a locka days more off the work.

    She told me five days off
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: ONeill on March 22, 2023, 10:57:32 PM
    5 'working' days
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 22, 2023, 11:00:17 PM
    Quote from: ONeill on March 22, 2023, 10:57:32 PM
    5 'working' days

    Hope so, the dogs are happy, so happy days
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: trailer on March 23, 2023, 05:01:30 PM
    Can't understand people testing for this now.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2023, 05:13:49 PM
    Quote from: trailer on March 23, 2023, 05:01:30 PM
    Can't understand people testing for this now.

    Perhaps because they do not want to give a disease to someone else?
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: trailer on March 23, 2023, 05:21:56 PM
    Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2023, 05:13:49 PM
    Quote from: trailer on March 23, 2023, 05:01:30 PM
    Can't understand people testing for this now.

    Perhaps because they do not want to give a disease to someone else?

    Ack ffs the whole country is vaccinated about 40 times and everyone who's gonna get it, has had it. Why do you need to test? You don't test for the Flu? Measles? Chickenpox etc. By the time symptoms show you'll have spread it around anyway. If you feel unwell stay at home.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2023, 05:27:39 PM
    Quote from: trailer on March 23, 2023, 05:21:56 PM
    Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2023, 05:13:49 PM
    Quote from: trailer on March 23, 2023, 05:01:30 PM
    Can't understand people testing for this now.

    Perhaps because they do not want to give a disease to someone else?

    Ack ffs the whole country is vaccinated about 40 times and everyone who's gonna get it, has had it. Why do you need to test? You don't test for the Flu? Measles? Chickenpox etc. By the time symptoms show you'll have spread it around anyway. If you feel unwell stay at home.

    Factually, everyone has not had it. It would be wise to test for these other diseases also and not go around spreading them, 99% of the people who get it will be fine, but you should have some consideration for the other 1%.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2023, 06:41:07 PM
    Quote from: trailer on March 23, 2023, 05:21:56 PM
    Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2023, 05:13:49 PM
    Quote from: trailer on March 23, 2023, 05:01:30 PM
    Can't understand people testing for this now.

    Perhaps because they do not want to give a disease to someone else?

    Ack ffs the whole country is vaccinated about 40 times and everyone who's gonna get it, has had it. Why do you need to test? You don't test for the Flu? Measles? Chickenpox etc. By the time symptoms show you'll have spread it around anyway. If you feel unwell stay at home.

    She's not well and staying at home as you would with any illness but her mother has just finished cancer treatment so knowing that is important as she is also a carer, so extra precautions is required.

    as for testing for something like measles that happens, they go to doctor and he diagnoses it
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2023, 08:50:22 PM
    Quote from: trailer on March 23, 2023, 05:01:30 PM
    Can't understand people testing for this now.

    Must be hard work going out of your way to jump to the wrong conclusion every time without fail.

    You can't let your guard down for a second and become rationale or anything.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: armaghniac on March 23, 2023, 09:38:04 PM
    Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2023, 08:50:22 PM
    Quote from: trailer on March 23, 2023, 05:01:30 PM
    Can't understand people testing for this now.

    Must be hard work going out of your way to jump to the wrong conclusion every time without fail.

    DUP members manage it every time.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Gmac on March 23, 2023, 09:50:07 PM
    Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 23, 2023, 08:50:22 PM
    Quote from: trailer on March 23, 2023, 05:01:30 PM
    Can't understand people testing for this now.

    Must be hard work going out of your way to jump to the wrong conclusion every time without fail.

    You can't let your guard down for a second and become rationale or anything.
    take an l and move on bro
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: trailer on March 24, 2023, 12:49:01 PM
    Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2023, 06:41:07 PM
    Quote from: trailer on March 23, 2023, 05:21:56 PM
    Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2023, 05:13:49 PM
    Quote from: trailer on March 23, 2023, 05:01:30 PM
    Can't understand people testing for this now.

    Perhaps because they do not want to give a disease to someone else?

    Ack ffs the whole country is vaccinated about 40 times and everyone who's gonna get it, has had it. Why do you need to test? You don't test for the Flu? Measles? Chickenpox etc. By the time symptoms show you'll have spread it around anyway. If you feel unwell stay at home.

    She's not well and staying at home as you would with any illness but her mother has just finished cancer treatment so knowing that is important as she is also a carer, so extra precautions is required.

    as for testing for something like measles that happens, they go to doctor and he diagnoses it

    Going to the Doctor with the Measles no wonder you can get an appointment. Crazy behaviour altogether.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 24, 2023, 12:52:42 PM
    Quote from: trailer on March 24, 2023, 12:49:01 PM
    Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 23, 2023, 06:41:07 PM
    Quote from: trailer on March 23, 2023, 05:21:56 PM
    Quote from: armaghniac on March 23, 2023, 05:13:49 PM
    Quote from: trailer on March 23, 2023, 05:01:30 PM
    Can't understand people testing for this now.

    Perhaps because they do not want to give a disease to someone else?

    Ack ffs the whole country is vaccinated about 40 times and everyone who's gonna get it, has had it. Why do you need to test? You don't test for the Flu? Measles? Chickenpox etc. By the time symptoms show you'll have spread it around anyway. If you feel unwell stay at home.

    She's not well and staying at home as you would with any illness but her mother has just finished cancer treatment so knowing that is important as she is also a carer, so extra precautions is required.

    as for testing for something like measles that happens, they go to doctor and he diagnoses it

    Going to the Doctor with the Measles no wonder you can get an appointment. Crazy behaviour altogether.

    So you can also diagnose the measles? Your some pup! We'll just send them to you ffs ;D
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: trailer on November 01, 2023, 01:02:23 PM
    The Covid enquiry is great craic altogether. Appears as we had thought at the time that Johnston was a f**king imbecile, ably helped by Hancock the lying **** as I think Cummings called him. Ironically Cummings would know a lying **** being one himself.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: AustinPowers on November 01, 2023, 02:26:12 PM
    Quote from: trailer on November 01, 2023, 01:02:23 PMThe Covid enquiry is great craic altogether. Appears as we had thought at the time that Johnston was a f**king imbecile, ably helped by Hancock the lying **** as I think Cummings called him. Ironically Cummings would know a lying **** being one himself.

    Isn't it  odd that Westminster was being  run by three  wingnuts whose names  are all linked to knob jokes... Johnson, Hancock and  Cummings.

    Sums up the  British establishment, doesn't it?
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: armaghniac on November 01, 2023, 02:45:11 PM
    Quote from: trailer on November 01, 2023, 01:02:23 PMThe Covid enquiry is great craic altogether. Appears as we had thought at the time that Johnston was a f**king imbecile, ably helped by Hancock the lying **** as I think Cummings called him. Ironically Cummings would know a lying **** being one himself.

    Cummings is a professional liar, but he manages to give the impression that some of the rest didn't even know that they were talking nonsense.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: imtommygunn on November 01, 2023, 03:46:56 PM
    the incompetence is off the charts too. They know how to lie and that's what they're good at but that's about all they do know how to do. Incompetence is off the charts too though voters keep falling for it.
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: theskull1 on November 21, 2023, 11:30:00 PM

    Moderna is spying on you (https://unherd.com/2023/11/moderna-is-spying-on-you/)

    New documents reveal its attempts to control the vaccine debate
    BY LEE FANG AND JACK POULSON
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: bennydorano on November 23, 2023, 01:11:27 PM
    Dust down the face masks.

    WHO asks China for more data on respiratory illnesses outbreak

    https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2023/1123/1418064-china-health/
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: Puckoon on November 25, 2023, 04:26:30 AM
    Quote from: theskull1 on November 21, 2023, 11:30:00 PMModerna is spying on you (https://unherd.com/2023/11/moderna-is-spying-on-you/)

    New documents reveal its attempts to control the vaccine debate
    BY LEE FANG AND JACK POULSON

    Can you ask them where my fuckin car keys are?
    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: theskull1 on January 12, 2024, 09:16:24 PM
    Wuhan still doing the voodoo that they do so well



    SARS-CoV-2-related pangolin coronavirus GX_P2V can cause 100% mortality in human ACE2-transgenic mice,

    potentially attributable to late-stage brain infection.

    This underscores a spillover risk of GX_P2V into humans,

    and provides a unique model for understanding the pathogenic mechanisms of SARS-CoV-2-related viruses.



    Title: Re: China Coronavirus
    Post by: RedHand88 on January 13, 2024, 05:34:27 AM
    Quote from: theskull1 on January 12, 2024, 09:16:24 PMWuhan still doing the voodoo that they do so well



    SARS-CoV-2-related pangolin coronavirus GX_P2V can cause 100% mortality in human ACE2-transgenic mice,

    potentially attributable to late-stage brain infection.

    This underscores a spillover risk of GX_P2V into humans,

    and provides a unique model for understanding the pathogenic mechanisms of SARS-CoV-2-related viruses.





    Why do people keep calling him a doctor?
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